# Tangled legs



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have this bird from 911. A young one with really bad legs. Bith thighs are rotated inwards, the left more than the right. S/he has moments when she can keep the legs parallel to eachother but when trying to move around the left leg crosses the right one. She can move around a little, enough to get to her water, but that is pretty much it. She cannot fly and uses the wings to move.
Her spirits are good despite her condition and a very bad, awfully smelly diarrhea.
I started her on Baytril for possible Salmonella. 
She is drinking lots but not eating yet.
I need some ideas, maybe there is a way to keep her legs straight. I forgot to mention that she can stand but not walk.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am attaching some pics of the legs

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Reti,

I would supplement with calcium and a good multivitamin to start, in case it is some kind of deficiency that is causing the problem. I wish I could help a little more, but that's what comes to mind to start right now.

Good luck with this little one,

Ron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a sad little case, Reti. I so appreciate all the effort that you, Mary Ann, and pretty much the whole 911 Pigeon Alert team put into getting this little one.

I don't have any useful advice but will say that I would give the little bird a bit of time and hope that with good food, supplements, and supportive care that some improvement will show. 

Given the age/development of the bird, I'm not sure there is any reasonable way to try and get those "twisty" limbs back into anything close to normal .. I sure hope so, but nothing practical comes to mind. Hopefully other members will have some good ideas.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Reti,

When I took one of my (lame) white pigeons to the vet he examined her legs carefully to test the hip joint and said that he had to be extra careful because they dislocate very easily. I am wondering whether that is what happened in the case of this little one and, if so, whether it could be corrected surgically. If that was the case perhaps those of us that can could contribute to spread the financial burden between us.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for your input, Ron, Terry, Cynthia.
I started her on calcium, vitamins, tube feeding, Baytril, probiotics. I don't know how much gets absorbed as she has the worst diarrhea I ever saw in a pigeon. I hope that resolves quickly.
I agree, once she regains her strenght we can evaluate the real damage and take it from there.
It could well be that the hip is dislocated as the joint in her left hip does stick out. I guess that could be corrected.
I am not sure my vet would do this as he was kind of involved in this rescue and he is not happy about it.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

I'm sorry to hear about this poor bird, but am glad she is in your capable hands.

I think nutrition, especially calcium and good diet right now is best. Kefir/probiotics is a definite must, I got to get you to start making kefir too. It's delicious too.

If she has coccidiosis, I would also give her some colloidal silver for infection, add the ACV too. The Chux really comes in handy with those especially wet poo's. 

Gosh, give your vet a few days to cool down, hopefully he will be more receptive to helping if the bird then...should the bird require surgery. I cannot understand the mentality though..lets just hope and pray for the best.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Treesa, I just remembered coccidiosis an hour ago and was thinking about whether to give her something for it or not. I do not want to overload her with antibiotics. I'll give her the cooloid silver.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, I can't advise anything beyond what others have said but I am curious. Is this a fledgling? In the pictures it looks very small.

The legs, particularly the left, look pretty bad. If that leg could be surgically manipulated to face normally then she would be able to at least stand some. Our Mr. Humphries, (I have mentioned him so much I know) had both legs broken and even after 3 vets worked on him, he was never able to stand more than in a squat, yet, he is able to move around very well and can stay in the aviary and fly around during the day. But, both his legs are positioned normally.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Maggie, the left leg is bad, it is rotated at the hip and knee. I wonder if it could be surgically corrected. She can stand a little but as soon as she tries to walk they won't work anymore.
It is a very young bird, I don't think more than 3 months old and she is very small, 225gr, but right now she is also very skinny.
Good news, the droppings are not smelly anymore, still very watery but a little thicker, not just water anymore.

Reti


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Reti, Okay! I'm in tears right now to hear things are looking a little better, maybe not much at least some. I don't know how to thank you so much for doing this for me, but I do thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your doing for this little one and me. You have gone above and beyond to help me out with this little one and can't thank you enough. You are my Angel, my knight in white shinning armor and don't know what I've would of done with out. Let me know what meds you need for this little one and I can order them and have it sent directly to you. If you need more calcium let me know and I can send it to you. 

Terry, I don't what I've would of done without you, Reti my life saver for taking this little one in for me, and just about all of our 911 Pigeon Alert team and I really appreciate it so much. I know right now that I'm not on one persons favorite list, but sometimes it's a chance I have to take (LOL). I also want to thank you for calling me because I sure did need someone to talk to and thank god I have you and Reti.

This passed week was not a very good week for me, as Terry and Reti know. I was going on what I was told, which I wasn't told everything about this little one and had to make a decision, so I went on what I was told. I try my best to do what I think is right on information I'm given. Reti and I keep in contact with each other every day with updates and pictures and maybe with a lot of prays for this little one, h/she will get well. Here is a picture of this little one that Reti sent me and want to share it with everyone.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

On my, Mary Ann, I am blushing now.
Everybody's efforts on saving this poor bird paid off and that is all that counts.
I still have enough Baytril and Calcium, I'll let you know if I run out.
She is doing pretty good and enjoys her time out on my puter desk.

Reti


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

> On my, Mary Ann, I am blushing now.
> Everybody's efforts on saving this poor bird paid off and that is all that counts.
> 
> Reti


Yes! I do agree with you, but my part was only the small one and being stubburn (LOL). 

Yes! please let me know and with the Baytril let me know if you want the pills or liquid and what dosage.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

"I am not sure my vet would do this as he was kind of involved in this rescue and he is not happy about it."
Reti,
what do you mean by the quote you wrote above? how did you come about this pigeon, i'm kind of confused about the story..
and why would the vet be not happy about this? man, i'm lost in this one, i think i just missed something or other..
but AGAIN Reti, you have come to the aid of a pijjie, and it is just amazing how much help you give, so all i can do is encourage you and wish you and baby all the luck in the world!! 
just a thought, but is it too far, bad, or gone to try and train the legs somehow, like you would do to train bent toes or something? just a thought, dont know if it will work, but maybe that with some surgical manipulation will do the trick!!
Good luck Reti, and keep on with the good work!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti said:


> Thank you for your input, Ron, Terry, Cynthia.
> I started her on calcium, vitamins, tube feeding, Baytril, probiotics. I don't know how much gets absorbed as she has the worst diarrhea I ever saw in a pigeon. I hope that resolves quickly.
> I agree, once she regains her strenght we can evaluate the real damage and take it from there.
> It could well be that the hip is dislocated as the joint in her left hip does stick out. I guess that could be corrected.
> ...


Is that back by the tail or are you referring to the joint of the femur to the tibiotarsus (because that one does look funny in the picture but it's hard to tell)?

Pidgey


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

> how did you come about this pigeon, i'm kind of confused about the story..


Xxmoxiexx, my name is Mary Ann, and I'm a moderator on 911 Pigeon Alert and is one of my cases, so I got a hold of Reti and asked her if she could pick up a bird for me because I live to far away to pick up the pigeon. It's a long story and can't really go into details about this case, just I wasn't told exactly what was wrong with this pigeon when I asked her if she could pick up the bird for me.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

was he/she born like this, or how did the legs get like this?
poor poor thing, i really feel for it, and you Reti, and thanks MaryAnn for helping this little one...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Moxxie, I don't know if she was born with this or it is a nutritional deficiency, hard to tell.
I am thinking of inventing something to keep the legs straight and the toes too, but nothing comes to mind right now.

Pidgey, it is the right hip you're seing sticking out. I don't know if it could be surgically corrected at this point.
The knee is also bend in an akward positions, that would have to be corrected too.
I am wondering if amputation of the legs would help, then maybe the legs wouldn't cross over.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, if I did anything, I would amputate only one leg and even with that if they could leave a stump it would help her tremendously. Our Silver, who died last year, had one leg amputated at the body and it severely limited him. The vet tried to leave some part of the leg but it was broken right at the body and there was nothing she could do. After he became an adult, his remaining leg could not support his weight and he basically stayed on his tummy all the time.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank Maggie.
For now I am just thinking about the possibilities. Thank you for the story for about Silver. Nikki can get around a bit and I would hate to ground her by amputating the leg.

Before considering doing anything for the legs anyways, she needs to get her health back and gain some weight and then we take it from there.
The bird will be going to mary Ann at some point, when strong enough, so she will have the best possible care and a loving home for the rest of her life.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We all know there is something special about all the pigeons we take care of but the ones like Nikki, Silver and our Mr. Humphries are extra special and there is not much we wouldn't do for any of our disabled. Silver is still missed terribly. He is the one that Lewis held in his lap every night and they both would go to sleep in the recliner. Precious memories.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Reti,

You are doing great, your little charge sounds like s/he is improving, you and Maryann's persistance really paid off in getting this little one into your care, I hope this little one will continue to progress as it sounds like s/he is doing. Like you I also think the weight and droppings right now is the most concerning, the disability can be figured out later if anything needs to be done.

Thank you so much for all you are doing and to Maryann for working so hard and pushing everyone to get this little one to you.

Please do continue with the updates, I have been checking here a few times a day.

Thanks again to all of you, Reti, Reti's Husband, Maryann, Terry, and Deone, everyone was so helpful in working together to help this little one, it was a little emotional for everyone but s/he is in caring hands and being loved and I am sure that means so much to this little one and it's progress.

Ellen


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My Harry had one leg amputated at the hip (I still can't forgive the vet who did that when I expected her to leave a stump and I refuse to take any pigeons to her). For a few years Harry was able to get around by hopping on her good leg. She was also able to perch on the good leg. Recently though she has had difficulties and is attacked by other pigeons when she is on the ground. Danny, who had worse string injuries to his feet and was rescued at the same time as Harry was left with two stumps and is so much better off.

Cynthia


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Ellen, Your welcome. A lot of thanks also goes to you to, you backed me up every inch of the way, even our Steve who said he supported in any of my decisions. I knew I had to work fast on this because I didn't have much time, it was running out. (LOL), I'm about the most stubborness person you'll find, but in a good way, it's the leo in me . I want you to know that I love what I'm doing and glad to be a part of your team, and a good feeling to know I have y'all behind. So a big thank you goes to you and everyone who was involved in this case.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Because of the 911 connection I am still a bit confused about where this baby came from. Was he lost/found or rescued? 

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

cyro51 said:


> Because of the 911 connection I am still a bit confused about where this baby came from. Was he lost/found or rescued?
> 
> Cynthia


Someone found the little pigeon and reported it to 911 Pigeon Alert. The finder ended up taking the bird to a wildlife center, and that center transferred it to another center. Ultimately, the second center relinquished the bird to Reti for care.

You'll see in another thread that little Nikki passed away this morning.

Terry


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear of the passing of little Nikki, I know he was being loved and cared for by Reti and his past few days were spent in the caring warm hands of a friend.

Ellen


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

> Because of the 911 connection I am still a bit confused about where this baby came from. Was he lost/found or rescued?
> 
> Cynthia


Cynthia, Nikki was found, this was not h/her when found, but I named h/her. This little one was more or less found wondering around by itself, and a kind woman picked it up because it looked to be hurt, and got in contact with us to find the owner to get it back home. It was one of my cases that I was working on. 

The sad news is that early this morning Reti got in contact with me and our little Nikki has passed away. Reti had done every thing possible to save h/him.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)




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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Reti I'm sorry to hear about Nikki and know that you
have some of the most difficult cases come your way.

Bless you for being there for Nikki.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Mary Ann and Reti, I am so sorry that Nikki passed away. How could anyone have released her to fend for herself in that condition???? I am so glad that she found kindness.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I dread it every morning when I go and check on the birds, especially when I have sick ones. She was sitting peacefully in her little cage and was still warm. It took me a bit to realize she had passed, I knew in my heart she was gone but I was hoping, you know how it is when you're shocked. She was doing so much better yesterday, I had much hope for her. Whoever released her must be completely ignorant.
Thank you all for your kind words. 
Ellen, I love the little card for her. 

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH, RETI!! I am so sorry! i know from your email that you put your heart and soul into this bird! everything you went through was not for nothing, this bird, Nikki, finally, had a nice caring place to lay her head. She died knowing that someone cared enough to try, rather than just turn their head and forget about her or put her to sleep in a cold unforgiving atmosphere. 
 I commend you and everyone else that cared so much to take in this bird, i know many people were involved with this. This is just so sad. I'm sorry Reti, MaryAnn and everyone else involved. 
Peace little Nikki...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Reti and Maryann,
I'm so sorry about little Nikki. I was so sad to read that she had passed away. Poor sweet bird. I don't know the whole story but it seems like you both went to great lengths to try to help her, how sad after everyone tried so hard. But at least she spent her last hours in a warm, loving environment, I'm sure she felt that kindness and caring in the end. 
Sabina


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## Sheila1111 (Jan 6, 2018)

Reti said:


> I have this bird from 911. A young one with really bad legs. Bith thighs are rotated inwards, the left more than the right. S/he has moments when she can keep the legs parallel to eachother but when trying to move around the left leg crosses the right one. She can move around a little, enough to get to her water, but that is pretty much it. She cannot fly and uses the wings to move.
> Her spirits are good despite her condition and a very bad, awfully smelly diarrhea.
> I started her on Baytril for possible Salmonella.
> She is drinking lots but not eating yet.
> ...


Check for lead poisoning ...


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