# need help.strange disease in female pigeon



## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Hello to all dear members. I am having problem in how to treat by sick saddle fantail female pigeon.Two days ago while she was sitting on eggs, she fell very ill. Her neck was tilting on one side.she vomited blood with some whitish matter with very bad smell. Whenever i try to feed her through syringe, she tries to vomit it out. She seems to be in severe pain. Now she has become very weak. I am giving her enrofloxacin and entamizole treatment but her condition seems to be deteriorating. Need your help.how should i treat her.attached are her photos from 2 days ago.her vomit and her dropping.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

What is that whitish matter she vomited? What kind of consistency, like meat? Maybe is the internal lining of the crop? Could be the dead segments of a taenia? The more experienced users may answer to this.

Anyway, she obviously suffer of crop blockage, which usually is caused by candida, a yeast, though in this situation may have another cause. If candida is the cause and you keep giving baytril, will only worsen the situation as the medicine remain in crop and make candida advance.

Stop giving the two medicines and give instead Nystatin, or Nystatin and Fluconazole, to counter a possible candida infection. You crush a half of a Nystatin tablet (usually, the tablets have 500,000 units, so you put 250,000 units) and a miligram or two of Fluconazole (depending of the weight of the pigeon, from 300 gr up you can give two miligrams). 

Fluconazole comes as a powder in capsules of several size, like 25, 50, 100 or more miligrams. To separate 1 mg, is best to buy a smaller capsule, like one of 25 mg. You empty the capsule on a clean sheet of paper and with a knife separate the powder in two equal parts, each one of aproximatively 12,5 mg. Then you separate one of the parts in two, obtaining two parts of aproximatively 7,7 mg each and so on, until you reach something close to 1 or 2 mg.

Fluconazole is a quite toxic drug, take care to not overdose.

Also, very helpful is to give the bird probiotics, as the advancement of candida and blockage of the crop occures exactly because Baytril destroyes the flora of good bacterias from digedtive tract. You buy probiotics from human drugstore.

Also, give B vitamins and, if you can find, veterinary hepatoprotective supplement based on methionine. Fluconazole, as well as baytril and many other drugs, affects the liver and methionine protects and heals it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*It would be best at this point to get the bird to a good avian vet that knows pigeons or pigeon rehabber and get this diagnosed. The bird is suffering and treating with various meds when you don't know what you are treating is only making things worse.*


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Are there any avian vets or rehabbers in Pakistan?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Thanks everybody for your timely reply and sorry for my late reply. Jhon and skyeking, actually the only vet near me told me to give those medicines. He doesn't seems to be very experinced. He told me she will get better in couple of days but that doesn't seems to be the case.
Dear Andreis, i thought it was candida.but i never saw a single white spot inside her mouth. The first blood vomit is in the pic.the 2 blood vomits after that had no white matter in it and blood was also much lesser.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Go through the symptoms in link below of Trichomonas causing canker in pigeons and try to understand if it is really canker as in canker some birds vomit out blood (written here)
If so you should treat him immediately as I dont think there are any rehabbers in Pakistan or good avian vets, may be any vet but hard to find.same with India.

http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/trichomonas.html

Hope the bird get diagnosed correctly and get better to treatment.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

The bird looks bad and so does the stuff coming out of her, not a great outlook. Good luck, you may have to help feed her and keep her warm but it doesnt look good at all. I hope she makes it. Fantail?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Yes CBL, its a saddle fantail.here is her pic when she was ok.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Thanks kiddy,i read the link but the problem is that their is nothing white or yellow in her mouth.any way i have given her flagyl for 2 days. She was just fine sitting on her eggs a day before her bloody vomit.and when i noticed and picked her up,she gave ai bloody vomit with a very bad smell.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Can i give probiotics to her during her antobiotic treatment??


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

smooky said:


> Thanks kiddy,i read the link but the problem is that their is nothing white or yellow in her mouth.any way i have given her flagyl for 2 days. She was just fine sitting on her eggs a day before her bloody vomit.and when i noticed and picked her up,she gave ai bloody vomit with a very bad smell.



I have been following the below thread and in it "feralpigeon" an experienced member wrote that canker can be anywhere from mouth to vent.
So I think it is not necessary for canker to show up in mouth.

Pls go through the link below:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/r...0-days-old-eats-but-doesnt-drink-76585-2.html


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

From the same thread I have copied down the info here:


Originally Posted by*Jost*
"Hi guys thanks for helping my pigeon and myself.So i've been searching about Canker as you made me worry. I've checked his throat, but not with a flashlight, just under a good light. Her throat was all pink, i was relieved but i will check again with a flashlight to have a better view.

Hi Jost, I know that many folks will say look in the mouth and as far down the throat as is visible. However, Trichomoniasis can be anywhere in the bird from mouth to vent (top to bottom), bloodstream or organs. It can eat a hole from the crop wall to the outside allowing crop contents to spill down the front of the bird and the bird can still be too fast on the wing to catch and treat. "


So in my opinion treating canker may yield result. But just my opinion and I am not experienced here.just told what I can research for your bird, if anything can help her a bit.
I want some other members to give inputs, may be someone else faced such situation before.

P.S you can get help on dosage from the mentioned thread , may require 5-7 days to treat with the recommended dose.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

AndreiS said:


> Anyway, she obviously suffer of crop blockage, which usually is caused by candida, a yeast, though in this situation may have another cause. If candida is the cause and you keep giving baytril, will only worsen the situation as the medicine remain in crop and make candida advance.


I don't know that the bird is suffering from a crop blockage, nor are most slow crop issues either fungal or blockage as in a mechanical blockage. The whitish material could be from a canker mass that have broken away from the medicine or even on their own.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

smooky said:


> Thanks kiddy,i read the link but the problem is that their is nothing white or yellow in her mouth.any way i have given her flagyl for 2 days. She was just fine sitting on her eggs a day before her bloody vomit.and when i noticed and picked her up,she gave ai bloody vomit with a very bad smell.


Flagyl (metronidazole) to be given for 5-7 days to treat canker, twice a day.dose is 50 mg/kg so calculate as per your bird's weight. This all is from the thread I mentioned about in my last posts.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

smooky said:


> Thanks kiddy,i read the link but the problem is that their is nothing white or yellow in her mouth.any way i have given her flagyl for 2 days. She was just fine sitting on her eggs a day before her bloody vomit.and when i noticed and picked her up,she gave ai bloody vomit with a very bad smell.


Smooky a bad smell is one of the sypmtoms associated with a more advanced state of canker. She is probably a fragile hen to begin with...of course they still want their eggs to sit on. But this is also very stressful for her, a perfect storm for Trichomonads to swell in numbers to the disease state. Does she have a mate sharing nest duties? The mate should likely be treated as well. You probably want these babies badly, but I would consider taking the nest away from her and put her in a quiet place with soft lighting where she is only dealing with her own health and keep her separated from mate right now. Not a good time for wife & mom duty.

How long has the bird been on the medications? They are by the way compatible and I think (without knowing what is available locally) a good combo for the hen. Antibiotics take 48-36 hours to kick in and see a real difference. Forget Fluconazole, if you feel strongly about treating for yeast, you can use Nystatin after she pulls through this one, but it's doubtful what is being shown in picture is from a yeast infection. I can help you with the dosing later. Forget probiotics for now, you have a very sick hen on your hands and we don't want to over stress her with solutions. You could put the equivalent of one tablespoon vinegar to one gallon of water and keep the unused portion refrigerated. To this water (to go in water bowl ) you could add some honey for readily available energy and a couple of drops of liquid vitamins. Good bacteria loves an acidic environment, additionally canker doesn't.

If you didn't pull the grit, please do so now as the calcium will bind with 
Fluoroquinolones rendering the medicine useless. So no calcium when treating with members of this family of meds.

You'll need to find the thin line between giving her what she can use (supplemental feedings) and stressing her out more. You could drizzle the water mix along side the beak allowing her to swallow on her own, this is relatively easy for a sick bird to handle. If she seems to like it, do it in small amounts throughout the day and evening or as time will allow. If she got the water mix and was drinking it should help her to hold on till meds kick in, then you can start supplementing if hen isn't self feeding. But low stress is a real goal here.

I'm sorry to see your hen suffering so, and if she is able to pull through she will need calcium supplements and no non-stop egg clutches to burden her with stress.

P.S.-

You can't see all canker from opening the beak, if she pulls through she will definitely need periodic treatments to keep the canker population knocked down.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Yes feralpogeon.i have kept her seperate in a small cage in my room.i have just given her the water u told me to i.e with apple viniger and honey.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Well some here are telling me to give her flagy(which i already am) while some are going for flucanozole.can't i give her both at the same time.is it ok?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

smooky said:


> Well some here are telling me to give her flagy(which i already am) while some are going for flucanozole.can't i give her both at the same time.is it ok?


I know what some are saying. This is not the result of a yeast infection, period. How long has the bird been on Flagyl and when did you take the picture of vomit in relation to Flagyl treatment?

Fluconazole is considered toxic/hard on the liver. Why would you want to give a hen who is this sick more to contend with? The less stress right now the better for your hen. Flagyl will address the canker that is causing the bleeding and Baytril the secondary infection from bacteria entering through damaged tissue.

Once you have finished the course of meds as prescribed, and you would like to treat for possible yeast, Nystatin is effective and safe when used as recommended.

You can tip this bird over the edge with unnecessary or toxic choices of meds. In the meantime, yeast will not live with ACV water and ACV water is also used with humans to clear yeast infections.

How is your bird doing today?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Well today is the 4th day i have given her flagyl.first day i gave her in tablet form but she was feeling pain in getting it in.then i began to give her flagyl in liquid form(entamizole). Her condition does not seems to be getting worse(slightly better). The bloody vomit is from the first day.2 more vomits that day. I immedaitely started flagyl and hand feeding. Then last 2 days she tried to vomit out anything i gave her.today however she drank the water you told by herself(after being thirsty for sometime). Now i have given her cerelac(wheat) but she doesn't seems to like it much.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

What should i feed her? Someone told me to put some chickpeas in water for 2 hours and then feed her by hand.is it the right thing to do?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Going to the link about canker recommended by kiddy, I found enumerated this symptom:
_7) vomiting (some birds vomit blood);_

So canker may be the best explanation, also for the bad smell (canker smells like rotten eggs). It also may explain the blocking of the crop alone, without candida. 


smooky said:


> Thanks kiddy,i read the link but the problem is that their is nothing white or yellow in her mouth.any way i have given her flagyl for 2 days. She was just fine sitting on her eggs a day before her bloody vomit.and when i noticed and picked her up,she gave ai bloody vomit with a very bad smell.


The results of medication on canker are seen in few days, not immediately. And you have to givea large enough dose, 50 mg / pigeon (not per kg, as kiddy said) / day, if the pigeon is around 300 gr. In serious cases, like yours, the dose should be even larger. Don't forget to crush the tablet and give it mixed with water and ideally with a drop of vitamin C. This vitamin will increase considerably the level of absorption of the drug (the amount which enter the blood system and becomes effective). 
Also you have to feed her (slightly warm) liquid food in consistent amount (at least three meals a day), with probiotics and B vitamins. You have to keep her in a very comfortable, isolated warmed place (even if you live in a hot climate) like a large cardboard box, ideally with an electric pad on the bottom or at least some bottles with warm water frequently changed, with a clot with a hollow where the bird to stay like in a nest.




> Can i give probiotics to her during her antobiotic treatment??


Is strongly recommended to do this. Without probiotics during the treatment and afterward, the bird will remain weak and vulnerable. They are as useful as the medicines, sometimes even more useful as they build immunity, making bird less susceptible to future illnesses, while medicines treat temporarily, the bird getting reinfected at a later date.

You gonna see immediately the great effect of probiotics.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

smooky said:


> What should i feed her? Someone told me to put some chickpeas in water for 2 hours and then feed her by hand.is it the right thing to do?


A powdered formula might be a better solution but I don't know if this is available to you. I don't have experience feeding chickpeas though green peas or corn in small amounts pushed to back of mouth and allowing the bird to swallow on it's own are fine. If the bird will do likewise with the chickpeas then this is likewise fine.

The ACV water will cause the good bacteria to multiply which is the point of probiotics. The antibiotics will kill the probiotics if given within hours either side of the medicine dosing. Just let the ACV do its job and bother her as little as possible. As she is recovering and gaining her health back and antibiotics have completed their treatment you can think about rebuilding her gut bacteria. The hen has enough on her plate right now.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

kiddy said:


> Flagyl (metronidazole) to be given for 5-7 days to treat canker, twice a day.dose is 50 mg/kg so calculate as per your bird's weight. This all is from the thread I mentioned about in my last posts.


Yes, Kiddy, your dose rate is correct...I can't think of an avian or exotics vet I've worked with in rehabbing over the past decade that would dose differently. If you dose regardless of weight, the small bird has a womping dose and the big bird a small dose. Common sense should prevail, and because it is an antibiotic it requires two doses a day to keep in blood stream at effective strengths.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

So it seems that acv water and flagyl is the right medication.thank you all for sharing your knowledge.will tell you tomorrow about her health.hope it will be a good news.please pray for her.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

feralpigeon said:


> As she is recovering and gaining her health back and antibiotics have completed their treatment you can think about rebuilding her gut bacteria. The hen has enough on her plate right now.


On the package of the (human) probiotics I use says they should be given *duding* and after the treatment.

Giving probiotics during treatment is very helpful. Probiotics don't stress the organism in anyway.

ACV doesn't offer the mount of good bacteria the manufactured probiotics offer.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

My response is the same. Now is not the time for a gut rebuild on a debilitated hen who looks as bad as this one. It's the hen who will be stressed not the organism. ACV in water is a prebiotic and additionally by virtue of creating an acidic environment causes the repopulation of good bacteria while simultaneously hydrating and giving immediate energy via the mixed in honey and vitamins. Again, Trichomonads don't like ACV water so a plus all the way around with no downside. The more handling the more stressful it is for the hen right now.

Probiotics have to be given several hours away from antibiotics so the
antibiotics don't kill the probiotics which, for this hen is not advised until she has a stronger 'toe hold' on life. In fact, both feet should be grasping the planet firmly after what she is going through, not just a toe hold.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

smooky said:


> So it seems that acv water and flagyl is the right medication.thank you all for sharing your knowledge.will tell you tomorrow about her health.hope it will be a good news.please pray for her.


You have to take good care of her. I will pray for her.if you are really concerned and have faith (I don't know about your faith) you keep in your heart to observe nafl namaz/roza when your hen recovers.I do it for everything I wish.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

feralpigeon said:


> Now is not the time for a gut rebuild on a debilitated hen who looks as bad as this one.


Lack of good gut bacteria brings only more debilitation. Their role is very important, without them the vitamins and nutrients not being properly absorbed by organism.





> Probiotics have to be given several hours away from antibiotics so the antibiotics don't kill the probiotics which, for this hen is not advised until she has a stronger 'toe hold' on life. In fact, both feet should be grasping the planet firmly after what she is going through, not just a toe hold.


I know this theory but the reality is that by giving probiotics at the same time with the medicines you will notice the bird passing firm, dark droppings.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It's not a theory, it's simply put what tests have shown. The antibiotic will kill the probiotic if not given several hours away from the antibiotic. Period, the end. The ACV will do the trick until this hen can handle the stress of more handling. Probiotics are not given concurrently with antibiotics but staggered.
Also to be considered is making antibiotics work on killing something that isn't completely unnecessary.

I don't believe in making a sick birds life more difficult when I can avoid and still achieve good results. Enough...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

smooky said:


> So it seems that acv water and flagyl is the right medication.thank you all for sharing your knowledge.will tell you tomorrow about her health.hope it will be a good news.please pray for her.


How is your bird now? No updates for today?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Sorry kiddy for my late teply.her condition is the same.no improvement yet.but today i noticed her crop seems to be larger like its swollen.i think its not a good sign.what to do now.should i try to empty her crop by a tube?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Are you crop feeding the hen now and do you know how to do this?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Did you take the hen off nest duties? How does her vent look?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Yes the hen is off duty.i have been hand feeding her since the first day of her illness.(through tube attached to a syringe). She can drink by herself. Her dropings are stuck to her butt feathers since the last 5 days.greenish liquid droppings.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Her crop was quite swollen so today i emptied her crop by turning her upside down and slowly pressing her crop.alot of yellowish water came out.it had alot of whitish matter in small pieces(like in the bloody vomit but this time the pieces were smaller).then i noticed that her crop still had alot of grains which she ate 5 days ago.that means her digestive system is not working. Her crop water had a very bad smell. I then gave her avc water.and she has drunk alot of it since then.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

smooky said:


> Her crop was quite swollen so today i emptied her crop by turning her upside down and slowly pressing her crop.alot of yellowish water came out.it had alot of whitish matter in small pieces(like in the bloody vomit but this time the pieces were smaller).then i noticed that her crop still had alot of grains which she ate 5 days ago.that means her digestive system is not working. Her crop water had a very bad smell. I then gave her avc water.and she has drunk alot of it since then.


Does the crop content still smell bad? If it was caused by canker, medication should have killed the microorganism and the smell should be gone. If the smell is still present, it may be the result of fermentation of food on the bottom of the crop. Have you noticed the crop to contain air bubbles?

What nature are those white pieces of matter? What they make you think they are? Can they be candida or some dead canker colonies?

Anyway, either is a later or earlier actor, candida is pretty sure involved and you should treat with Nystatin. Given orally, this is not a toxic medicine as doesn't enter the blood (injected, is toxic and is no more used in human medicine). Give Nystatin, three times / day a half of tablet (250,000 units) crushed and mixed with water. Ideally you should give this on empty crop and let it around an hour before giving food. Is not good to let a sick bird much time with empty crop (without food), even if the crop is blocked. And very important, massage gently the bottom of the crop when filled with liquid. You can put the Nystatin in like 10 ml of water or more and use this water as a washing agent, massaging as I said. I do not master the technique of emptying the crop as you do (I searched youtube and could not find a video with this, it would be educative for me) but in this case don't empty the crop, let the water with Nystatin be absorbed by organism. From what I've read, if the bird is weak, emptying the crop adds stress and is not always indicated, as it doesn't help deblocking the crop.


Some photos with the droppins (the aglutinated vent) and vomited matter would be very helpful. I had a pigeon that died of adenocoli and the day before death, had the crop filled with yellow, transparent liquid and white membranes (candida). In your case, the yellow color may be owed to canker but is not excluded the bird to suffer of bacterial infection. An ingested object also is not completely excluded. I hope is not the case with your bird as if there is a serious bacterial infection (instead of canker), sudden death is possible. In such case, an injection with general antibiotic (Lincospectin or Enrofloxacin) is vital. But again, as your bird is in bad condition, strong antibiotic may only worsen the situation, if bacteria is not the main pathogen.

I just enumerating the possible excplanations for your'bird symptoms and possible strategies of treating. If I was you, I would stop the metronidazole treament for two days (if you have given it for at least 5 days) and give two days injectable antibiotic, accompanied by Nystatin and Fluconazole, and see the results. The green droppings on her vent worry me. I think lively green is rather associated with bacteria than with canker.

The immediate deblocking of the crop is vital. I had several birds that died of dehydration because of blocked crop. I wasn't understanding what was causing that fast dehydration, I thought is some sort of fever that causes the losing of water through skin but in fact was the blocked crop.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Sorry to tell you guys that she died 3 hours ago.i really appreciate all the effort you people made.after i emptied her crop yesterday she seemd to be quite relaxed as she started walking a littile bit(which she stopped for yhe last 2 days).she drank a lot of avc water after that. But when i checked her today she was dead.i thought it would help you guys to better understand the cause of her illness and so i cut open her crop and took a picture. Her crop was filled with all the grains she ate 5 to 6 days ago which means she was not digesting those grains since she fell ill.the water was not much inside her crop but it was filled with air(as when i cut it open,air was released from it).there were some white rice like substance with the grains.i think it was rice as her diet was mixed seed and included brown rice in it.the rice were not brown any more and that could be because they were there for quite a long time. I thought it could be canker but all the whites were of the size of rice and was mixed with other grains.i have attached the pic.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Have you taken a photo whit the white substance? Was it granular? Candida yeast is white but it forms as elastic membranes from what I know. Could been candida though, in combination with salmonella. That white stuff in the first photo of the thread might been candida as well. Maybe  an antibiotic injection and anti-candida treatment would have saved her. In serious cases of bacterial invasion, oral antibiotics are useless, even more if the crop is blocked.

Most pigeon problems when you don't know the cause can be solved pretty easy by treating for either or both bacteria and canker. Is important to know this, because usually in such situations you feel "blocked", fall into despair and don't take any action.

I've also read on some vet site to rule out canker first, but I think ruling out the bacterial cause first is better, as bacteria advances faster and as can be stopped in short time, one or two days of injectable antibiotic (3 days are recommended for complete elimination of risk).


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Forgot to take the photo of the grains but the white rice like substance in this photo is the same as in the grains.saw nothing like elastic memebranes in there.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Those chunks of bloody vomit look like tissue. I wonder if she has a mass or tumor growing in her crop or further down the digestive track that broke loose. Beyond the scope of this site Im sure. I would suggest a vet.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Smoky, am so,sorry for the loss of your hen. She was a lovely bird.


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

Someone have told me to put my flock on enrofloxin course.i have a question.what is the time before the enrofloxin water should be changed?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

smooky said:


> Someone have told me to put my flock on enrofloxin course.i have a question.what is the time before the enrofloxin water should be changed?


Smooky, I am very sorry about the loss of your hen, she really was a lovely girl. Agree with CBL that knowing the full import of the picture you have posted is beyond the scope of this site. 

I can say that canker is tricky to treat in the disease state as if it breaks up too quickly it can obstruct the crop if not quickly enough, kill the bird. To me it seems as though the chunks in the vomit and present in the last picture may have settled at the bottom of the crop and obstructed seeds from moving through the digestive tract. Once undigested matter built up, bacteria festered (yellow) and gas developed. Pasty vent isn't a diagnosis in and of itself but suggestive of illness and frequently present in canker birds. Though, to throw in a monkey wrench, the white 'chunks' are oddly uniform in size to be either canker or yeast or yeast or even tissue breaking away. Again, I ain't no vet, this is speculative and based on personal study and experience. 

Breeding season does bring on canker in its disease state because of the stress involved for the birds especially the hens. When there is a problem with canker in flock setting, treating prophylactically in spring and fall is sometimes necessary while rebuilding immune system. Remember to supplement Calcium/with D3 if an indoor bird to help with calcium depletion. 

As for Enrofloxacin or _any_ medicine given in the water, it should be changed daily. If you can get Ronidazole to put in water, it treats for canker and frequently is given in water treatments because it dissolves better than Metronidazole. That is unless you are using an aquarium based Metronidazole and then you need to make sure it is only Metronidazole with no other additives. Both Enrofloxacin and Canker meds may be given simultaneously & work especially well in combo with each other.

Remember, when using Enrofloxacin(or any member of this family of meds like Baytril/Cipro or Tetracyclines, you have to pull grit. Otherwise it binds with the medicine rendering it useless. If calcium supplementation is also required, then it needs to be offset by around 4 hours from the medicine.
I think a flock treatment for parasites would be a helpful thing as well.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss but thankful she is no longer suffering. She was a very sick girl.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am sorry for the loss but I didn't like this kind of pic to be posted when everything was clear from the explanation itself.if it helps someone here i am sorry but seeing her feathers and crop cut showing nothing except blood, endodermis and undigested grains, it clouded my brain. It hurts to see such pics but if it is necessary for others I will manage. I dont know if the site permits it.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm uncomfortable with these kinds of pictures as well, Kiddy, though others have done similar over the years. Just that there are unclear standards over what is considered invasive. To me this is invasive, yet, the bird has passed and is completely unaware of what has transpired. I don't consider tube feeding or medicating invasive, but some here think it is.

Smooky, another thing about your bird, when I first saw the pics of the chunks in the crop, I thought of a bird I once had. This rescue had a crop full of flukes, it's the only rescue I've ever had with flukes like this, and the crop was literally full of them. The bird didn't survive fluke treatment with a wormer considered very safe. There are apparently 14 types of flukes that pigeons may have. This is why I suggested worming the flock, I don't know what kind of flooring their housing has?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

feralpigeon said:


> I think a flock treatment for parasites would be a helpful thing as well.


You mean worms? What is the best medicine for flock treatment against worms? Is external Invermectin effective against them?


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## smooky (May 20, 2015)

I am sorry kiddy for being invasive but i thought some expert members here will be able to better understand the circumstances of her death.
Thanks feralpigeon for your advice.kindly tell me what is best and simplest way of deworming the flock?
The flock lives on cemented floor which i clean every weak. The bird which died used to live seperately in a 4*3*3 cage with metal wire flooring.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

smooky said:


> I am sorry kiddy for being invasive but i thought some expert members here will be able to better understand the circumstances of her death.
> Thanks feralpigeon for your advice.kindly tell me what is best and simplest way of deworming the flock?
> The flock lives on cemented floor which i clean every weak. The bird which died used to live seperately in a 4*3*3 cage with metal wire flooring.


Hi smooky,

Sorry, missed this post...I don't know what you have available to you in Pakistan, but if you can get pyrantel pamoate + praziquantel for pigeons it would treat for flukes in addition to other parasites. It can be purchased through Medipet:

http://www.medpet.co.za/productlist/MediwormTablets.htm

While the above link will take you to the pill form, this anthelmintic is also available in powder form for flock treatment. It is very safe, please don't resort to fenbendazole as studies have shown that whether dose is small or large (yet still within formulary range) pigeons treated with this wormer do better if not treated at all which is damning for fenbendazole. 

Here is one form of this medicine in powder form:

http://nepigeonsupplies.com/aviomed_products.htm

Scroll down to #1055F (100 gr) $18.00 for the product on catalogue page.

Hope this helps...


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