# Fallen Baby Pigeon In The Bahamas



## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

On Sat past my husband found an extremely tiny baby pigeon that appears to have fallen from a very large palm tree. Even though I cannot see a nest, I suspect that it is well hidden between the palm branches and tree. The baby would have fallen approximately 60/65ft into a grassy lawn area below. 

Fortunately our weather has been extremely hot lately with little rain and so the bird did not appear physically injured in any way. It was just extremely small and easily fitted into the palm of my hand. After going online, I discovered that brown fuzzy bundle was a baby pigeon. I have zero experience with bird care and rescue but my heart went out to this creature and I am determined to save its life. 

I have done tons of online research since Sat but I need some support. I have not yet found an avian vet on island so thought best to join your site and see if I can get some experienced advice. 

I have affectionately named this baby "Lucky".

On Sat I purchased a container of Kaytee Exact and I have been feeding him twice daily (am and pm) approx. 10ml per feed with success. I am using the syringe method.

The very first feed on Sat afternoon was a little quaker oats with very tepid water. I used a small Ziploc bag and he placed his beak right in and ate until his crop visibly filled up. I did not know as much as I do now so he ate until he was full.

His poops appear to be dark in colour with a white tip. He seems to pass frequently without issue. On day 1 his poo appeared different it looked like small red berries. To me he had been feed wild berry soup before joining my household! I have not seen a repeat of this since day 1. 

I initially placed him in a shoe box lined with tissue. I have since created a nest in a large bowl with a heating pad wrapped in two towels. This provides a minimal heat layer beneath him which is on 4 hours per day. 1hr before and 1hr after he eats. When I go to work I leave his nest very close to a sunny window so he gets warmth and natural sunlight. 

He reacts well to touch during feeding. He is also moving around a bit more since Sat but he does sleep a lot. His eyes opened yesterday and I heard an extremely faint squeak this morning. It was very faint but definite. He is not very interested in water. I have tried to tip his beak into a small beaker but no interest. 

My concerns at this point are (I) his size; he is extremely small (wondering if he is older but underdeveloped) (ii) he shakes his head at the sound of my voice and noticeably after he eats. It calms down quickly and nothing else triggers the head shake. He is trying to walk but he is a bit wobbly. He is now stretching his neck upward which he was not doing on Sat. There appear to be no broken bones. 

His size is my main concern. From reading growth is rapid and he is way behind. I don't see any signs of canker in his mouth. He does not appear to have any canker disease but what can I give (if anything) as preventative measure. I am praying that he will remain healthy and start to get bigger. Here are a few pictures. I would appreciate any advice. 
Thnx.
Tracy 



Based on the size of the bird, I estimate that he is about 5-7days old. He


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok, you have done great so far. The baby needs to eat 4 to 6 times a day, looks to be 3 to 4 days old as thats when they open their eyes. Does not need water, formula that is mixed properly is all the hydration he needs at this stage. Buy some RAW apple cider vinigar and put ONE drop in with formula for digestion. Make sure food is warm enough about 105 F no hotter and not colder than 100 F or he gets fatal crop problems. You can give last feeding before bed, then again in the early am, allow crop to empty only overnite, but keep food in crop during the day. Keep baby warm enough as well so he digests well. 

In this pic on this link, u see how much you should fill the crop with food. Most people dont feed enough.

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/howmuchtofeed.htm

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/syringeandballoon.htm

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Just copy and pasting to make it easier for this part, pics in the links I sent...

How much to feed a baby pigeon or dove
Pigeons and doves have different sized crops, so the best guide to feeding them is to let them eat until the crop is soft and squidgy like a balloon 3/4 filled with water. The crop hangs like a bag down the inside of a pigeon's chest.

There are small bubbles that appear on a hatchling's shoulders when it had received enough food. Once these bubbles start to inflate stop feeding, it means that the crop is full enough. The pigeon on the left of the photo has an overfilled crop. The arrows show the "warning bubbles", the yellow swelling on the side of the crop shows it has been overfilled. The pigeon on the right is OK, it has food in its crop but has not been over filled.





This is a photo of a baby wood pigeon with a slightly overfilled crop! I panicked the first time I overfed a baby (it happens), but was told that unless they are showing signs of distress it is best to just leave them to be quiet and digest their food in peace and to not do it again!. Duddly was OK, but if the crop is overfilled too often it will stretch and form a pocket that traps food which can become sour and harmful.

When the crop has flattened and the baby squeaks to be fed you can feed again. But allow the crop to empty completely every 24 hours.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Thanks CBL. Lucky will have to go to work with me today so I can feed him through the day. On my calculations 6 feeds will be every three hours starting at 7am EST. I will introduce the apple cider vinegar and keep you posted. 
Tracy


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

If you see at the 3 hours mark that the crop is still half full, wait a bit, the parents keep them topped up during the day and less so at night. But really they are never realy empty, if they are then something is wrong, but when whe try to emulate the parents, good to allow to empty thru the night to make sure no crop issues. Use some discretion and read that site and links I sent you. I would say min 3 a day tho, and more if it looks too empty. Lucky bird gets to go to work lol. Keep him warm enough tho. Crop issue come when the food sits too long undigested. Warmth is key to digestion and health when so small. Amazing he didnt get injured but Im not convinces he fell 65 feet out of a nest onto grass, he may have been nest napped by a predator bird that dropped him there, hopefully from a lower elevation, baby pigeons drop like stones. They are heavy for their size, so he sure IS Lucky whatever the case, that no one came by and ate him while on the ground. Also when this young ALL they do is sleep. So that is normal, eat sleep and poop lol. You can google growth charts for pigeons as well to see size comparison and each stage.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You are very kind to have taken on the job of feeding the little cutie. Thank you!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

So cute  
And thank you for helping this sweet little Lucky. 
Do keep us posted. Thanks a lot


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Fallen Bahamian Pigeon*

Hello. Glad to report that Lucky had a great day, no issues and a few more pics are attached. I reverted to using the bag feed method today (for a change and faster/easier at work). I also inserted a drop of apple cider vinegar to Lucky's formula this morning. I did not repeat on other feeds just once. I also added some honey & liquefied oats to his evening feed. He seemed to enjoy the change. Thanks for the tips.
Tracy


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Thats great, but I think he could do with a bit more per feeding, he doesnt look that full unless it is the angle, can you get us a side view of the crop when fed and I dont see the air bubbles bulging at the back of his neck. Also you could always use a BIGGER syringe, it seemed the better choice for size of his beak and or even a small mason jar with balloon cut over it with a hole. That is how jack is being fed works GREAT. Also in the 3rd picture his crop looks way too empty for daytime, it should only look that empty overnight, during the day dont let it get so empty. You can put ACV drop with each feeding. Again pay attention to the warmth of the formula or mash or seed slurry. @ 100 to 105 F max  Will be fun to see him grow.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi CBL,
I really appreciate your advice and will follow your direct. My single concern has been Lucky's size and whether she is getting enough food. I will email some pics tomorrow morning before I leave for work. Lucky is adorable; she is sleeping as I type this email.
Tracy


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lucky is so cute! Thank you for helping her.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!*

She really is too cute for words; tiny but adorable. I will try my best to increase her size in the next few weeks.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol you wont have to try she gonna grow like a twig. Did u google any videos of bubs her age being fed or simply google, hang on I'll get it for you, one sec....kk here it is... click on link and then each individual pic LARGE so u can see the crop how full it is daily all day long then empty over night and start all over again 

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What's wrong with his beak?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You may want to give this site a read. Very helpful.

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/


When parent birds are feeding their young, it's different. When we take over the job, more can go wrong, so many of us feed, then wait for the crop to empty before feeding again. That way if something is wrong, you will know right away. You don't want to be putting new food in with old. That can cause crop problems. 
It can take 5 or 6 hours to empty between feedings.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

U know Jay I noted that too, but when I looked at some different angles it did look a bit shovelled but because it was symetrical, I figure it is just that and looks more normal in some pics and not so in others, so since he is eating well and growing, didnt figure it was anything to note right yet. Dont want to worry the rescuer. Still not sure that anyting is wrong and yet the beak both looked to long and wide for the babies size. Time will tell I think whether there is an issue or not.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Beaks at this baby's age are soft. May have had too much pressure on it while feeding.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

My guess is anomoly and bilateral so who cares. Dont think its an isse as baby is feeding well and no complaints so far, just a bit of an odd shape. Hopefully it continues to do just fine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You may not think it an issue, but if it is from too much pressure while feeding, then it can be rectified before changing the shape of the beak. So good to think about.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I dont think its from feeding tho as she uses both syring and bag that bird sticks its beak into, I think it may be how it was born/hatched.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi CBL,
Had a busy morning so was unable to take any pictures yet to circulate. I am avoiding any pressure on the beak during feeding but i am going to get a larger syringe as suggested. The bag method is easiest as Lucky inserts her entire head in and just sucks the food down. I do think that she is getting a bit bigger not much but I can see a slight increase. She is definitely extending her wings and is standing up/moving around her nest bowl. I have brought her into office so i can feed during the daytime. 

I was careful not to overfill in her first morning feed so by lunch the crop should be reduced (not to zero) ready for feed 2. I just checked her and she is squeaking for lunch!! Going forward, will avoid letting her get completely empty during the day.

Its interesting that the beak issue camme up among the group today. A work man just came into office and looked at her and said that she has a wart on her beak!! I just listened but I don't think he is correct. Maybe you will confirm later.Will get some more pictures out to you soon so you can have a better look at the beak. 

PS - Lucky DID NOT react well to the gentlemen touch today. She was shaking like a leaf!! Do birds identify through smell i.e i am the only one she bonds with so did his scent create fear/anxiety?? She squeaks with joy in response to my "hellos" and touch. 

Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL said:


> I dont think its from feeding tho as she uses both syring and bag that bird sticks its beak into, I think it may be how it was born/hatched.



Yes, but on the syringe, it looks like masking tape. Not a good choice if it is, as it doesn't have any give to it and could squish the beak. A better choice would be either a balloon or self adhesive tape, like vet wrap with give to it.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Tracyf said:


> Hi CBL,
> Had a busy morning so was unable to take any pictures yet to circulate. I am avoiding any pressure on the beak during feeding but i am going to get a larger syringe as suggested. The bag method is easiest as Lucky inserts her entire head in and just sucks the food down. I do think that she is getting a bit bigger not much but I can see a slight increase. She is definitely extending her wings and is standing up/moving around her nest bowl. I have brought her into office so i can feed during the daytime.
> 
> I was careful not to overfill in her first morning feed so by lunch the crop should be reduced (not to zero) ready for feed 2. I just checked her and she is squeaking for lunch!! Going forward, will avoid letting her get completely empty during the day.
> ...


Well YES I saw a great documentary about pigeons and homing abilities. They did multiple test but long story short, they DO have great sense of smell and helps navigate them home along wtih the sight, and magnetic field, but I was shocked to learn that smell came into it. 
I had noted the size of beak and what appeared to be like a wart hog beak. But since it was feeding well, and is symetrical as I said earlier, I would not worrry too much, could be a birth anomoly or something else. Lets let her grow into it a bit and see what happens. Also can differentiate people, so they are not stupid thats for sure.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi CBL - here are some new pictures of Lucky taken a few minutes ago. What do you think...how does she look,,,any issues??? Sorry lighting was not better. 

Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

The material seen on the syringe I hav ebeen using is the finger of a latex glove. I just cut the tip of the glove off, secured with rubber bands and I cut an X in the centre. Maybe I secured the tip too tight maybe?? 

I bought a pack of "nipples" today, larger syringes and ballons. I used the nipple this evening and it went well like the bag method, Lucky just stuck her head in and sucked up the food. 

As you can see I am really trying to get this down pat!! Thanks for the tips. 
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A glove tip should work well, and have enough give I would think. Maybe she just has an odd beak. Makes her different. You're doing well with her. Cute little thing.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL said:


> Well YES I saw a great documentary about pigeons and homing abilities. They did multiple test but long story short, they DO have great sense of smell and helps navigate them home along wtih the sight, and magnetic field, but I was shocked to learn that smell came into it.
> I had noted the size of beak and what appeared to be like a wart hog beak. But since it was feeding well, and is symetrical as I said earlier, I would not worrry too much, could be a birth anomoly or something else. Lets let her grow into it a bit and see what happens. Also can differentiate people, so they are not stupid thats for sure.



Amazing creatures for sure...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Tracyf said:


> The material seen on the syringe I hav ebeen using is the finger of a latex glove. I just cut the tip of the glove off, secured with rubber bands and I cut an X in the centre. Maybe I secured the tip too tight maybe??
> 
> I bought a pack of "nipples" today, larger syringes and ballons. I used the nipple this evening and it went well like the bag method, Lucky just stuck her head in and sucked up the food.
> 
> ...


I think you are doing great efforts with everyone's help here and so it should go good


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks Kiddie,
I really do appreciate everyone's time and encouragement on this. The support is tremendous as I have no professional help on island to turn to. Thanks again A few more pictures are attached. Can't seem to find any other posts showing a baby as young/small as Lucky - will continue to search.
Tracyf


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Yup she looks good  Nice fill on the crop. See some new pins coming in on the wings, she is growing lol. Take a few pics a day so you can see the transformation as they grow so fast.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Will do. Thanks CBL.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi CBL,
Justwhile yet before I a quick update.

Lucky is doing great!!

Bought her a small cage yesterday however it will be awhile before I use it.

It seems she wants to stretch her legs and so the cage should help.

She no longer wants to be completely nestled in her bowl in towels but instead sits at the top and edge of the bowl. What I am watching is whether she tries to jump out and go for a walk. I have two small dogs and while they are very loving not vicious; I won't take any chances..

Here are a few more pictures taken today.

Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

I am still concerned about Lucky's size. 

Any ideas please that may help boost her size? 

Otherwise no other issues. She is doing great. Thanks.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi, how old she has been now?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Just keep feeding her, about 6 times a day, fill her crop well as in pics u find on internet and she will catch up when she starts eating seeds, how od is she now, you may want to intoduce small seeds into her formula now. Like canary and budgie millets mix.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Tracyf said:


> I am still concerned about Lucky's size.
> 
> Any ideas please that may help boost her size?
> 
> Otherwise no other issues. She is doing great. Thanks.


She has retarded development because of coccidia or salmonella. ?If she survives, she will be smaller than other adults and may have problems with finding food, because of larger competitors from her own specie.

Anyway, you have to feed her consistently, really big amounts, not the usual amount an adult eats, but several times that amount. No matter how many times a day, but the bird must get lots of food. Babies eats far more than an adult, because are growing. Parents are keeping their crops overfilled during daylight.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

On my calculations she is about 15/17 days old. I found her on July 11. I am still feeding formula about 3/4 times per day. I will increase this weekend. I was going to introduce defrosted peas today. I can source the seeds you recommend so I will get a bag. She is getting used to a drink of water after each feed. She sticks her beak into the dish and then shakes her head in a playful way. 

I just want her to develop into a healthy bird and thus far I am so glad that I have not had any disease or other illness to contend with.

Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

One last thing; any idea what type of pigeon she is or is it too soon to say. I have noticed several types in my garden. Black with a green neck, pure grey. However there are two very large black pigeons with a white ring around the neck and head which stand out as bearing the closest resemblance. I have googled pigeon types but I can't yet pin point Lucky from the pictures. What type do you think she is??


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hard to tell what type at this stage until she gets her fledgling plumage. He or she us really a cutie and you have been doing a wonderful job with him or her. Hope you will adopt her as she is now bonded to you. Pigeons make wonderful pets. Fate has chosen you wisely judging by how the little guy us growing.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks CW. I have all intentions of keeping her; she has bonded very closely. Took her out into the garden earlier and its was so cute. I rested her down and after she pecked around for 1/2min she hopped over to me and cuddled for "protection. Many adult pigeons/seagulls flying overhead so its nice for her to go out "into the wild" once and awhile. for brief encounters with nature. Stepped up the feeding today so I


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, not that much grown which should be at this age but for hand reared babies not that bad too. You are right, at this age you should start with defrosted frozen peas /corns thawed under warm water to bring them to normal temperature, not too hot or too cold, hopefully she with catch up soon. 
For colors it would be a surprise for you, colors are hard to judge until they themselves show them. 
Thanks for adopting her, Agree with cwebster pigeons make great pets.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Had a hard time trying to open the beak to feed baby peas and corn kernels. In the alternative, I blended them up added a little organic apple vinegar & warm water. She sucked this mix down so we will see, I also noticed that she appears to be "pecking around a bit, so I placed a handful of sunflower/pumpkin seeds around her which she played with but did not eat. Will see how it goes.

Thanks everyone for the continued interest. This is a gradual process. A few more pics!!
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lucky is well named, Lucky to have such a great person caring for her! She or he is very cute.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

I missed Andreis response earlier. I am a little freaked out by it. I alos note that no one else chimed in.

If Lucky DOES have salmonella etc - please explain how you can tell - what should I be doing - not sure on the excessive feeding suggestion. Please note I do not have a bird vet on island. So I will need help if she/he needs medication. 

Don't plan on returning her to the wild so there will be no issue of food competition. 

Can I get group comments on this latest opinion from Andreis - I am concerned....Thnx

Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would not over feed right now. Don't worry about eventual size. Just feed her as people have suggested earlier. How do the droppings look?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't worry about her size right now. Perfectly normal for a hand raised baby to be a bit behind. If she wasn't behind, that would be unusual. If she is acting well and seems healthy then the idea of salmonella or cocci is ridiculous. And he would have no way of knowing that. And as far as when they grow up, they do pretty much catch up. If she ends up a bit smaller that won't matter anyway. I raised 2 babies that were a couple of days old when I brought them home. They were a bit slower to get there, but they did. And they are grown and doing great. As far as stuffing her with food, over feeding is not good advice. You could actually stretch the crop and cause her harm that way. Feed her appropriately for her size and she will do fine. She is adorable.
Also, I do have a few smaller birds in my loft, and no one pushes them around. Size has nothing to do with it. It's attitude. LOL.
As far as leaving seeds down for her, the smaller seeds would be a much better choice. Sunflower and pumpkin seeds are really too large. 

Can you explain what you are finding difficult about feeding the peas? Maybe we can help. If you are holding her on a towel on your lap, and against your tummy, then this gives you control. Reach around her head with one hand and clasp her beak on either side. Now gently get your finger nail in between her top and bottom beak to pry it open. Put in a pea and push it to the back of her throat and over her tongue. Release her beak so she can swallow. If you can do this, after a while leave some with her and she will learn to pick them up. They often learn even faster with peas because they are soft and squishy and can be picked up easily. It's really easy.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

AndreiS said:


> She has retarded development because of coccidia or salmonella. ?If she survives, she will be smaller than other adults and may have problems with finding food, because of larger competitors from her own specie.
> 
> Anyway, you have to feed her consistently, really big amounts, not the usual amount an adult eats, but several times that amount. No matter how many times a day, but the bird must get lots of food. Babies eats far more than an adult, because are growing. Parents are keeping their crops overfilled during daylight.


*ATTENTION: AndreiS,

There is absolutely no indication that the baby is sick, please refrain from telling Tracyf to overstuff the bird, as that will do more harm then good. Thank you.*


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3/SkyeKing/Cwebster,
THANK YOU SO MUCH. I must say I am relieved. Andreis maybe trying to help/educate but overstuffing did not seem to be the way to go. Further, Lucky is not behaving as if he/she is unwell. I just want to get this right and do whats best. 

So, I will continue consistent feeds throughout the day with formula only until I get the hang of administering the peas/corn. After reading Skyeking's instructions, I was not doing it right. Bringing Lucky to work helps. 

His/Her droppings remain dark in colour with a white tip. They are not runny discolored, green or smelly. The number of passes per day is increasing and I am viewing this as a good sign. 

I am going to the pet store today to get another container of formula and some canary/budgie millet mix. Certain I will find this. Again this should help keep Lucky healthy and growing. I am pleased that she is drinking more water and she also loves gerber baby food (apple). She had a good breakfast of formula at 7am and at 11:00 I gave her room temperature baby food. She gobbled it down. She appears to be fine and not sick. 

She is too active to be unwell. She is walking around her little cage and seems content even in the car!! 

Will check in with everyone a bit later with a few pictures after hours.

Thanks again.
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nice update, thank you


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi there. FYI Shots captured a few mins ago; included 1 poo shot re earlier salmonella/cocci post. 
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looking good.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Tracyf said:


> Thanks CW. I have all intentions of keeping her; she has bonded very closely. Took her out into the garden earlier and its was so cute. I rested her down and after she pecked around for 1/2min she hopped over to me and cuddled for "protection. Many adult pigeons/seagulls flying overhead so its nice for her to go out "into the wild" once and awhile. for brief encounters with nature. Stepped up the feeding today so I


Am I reading this right? Did u say you took her out into the yard without a cage? This is risky and I dont think u should do that again ever, unless u intend to free fly her and or lose her. Just read another post of a person who left his window open all the time thinking it was good for the bird who promptly flew AWAY and he has not got her back yet. Fine while she is unable to fly, but as soon as she is able she may just take off, get lost or a fright from ANY other bird and be gone. So outside time has to be IN a cage for safety. Dont ever think she is so tame that she will just sit on shoulder or come when called, that is NOT how it works, they can be gone in an instant and u will be frantic.

Now all that said, cute bird, long beak, big nostrils, will be interesting to see what native bird she turns out to be. Glad you saved her and not to stress too much, she how she grows, dont worry bout size for now as hand feds never grow at the same rate as parent fed but they catch up when on seeds and feed themselves.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Cute birdie! Please don't let her out in the yard again.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

CBL - You are right; I would be frantic if I were to lose her like that. So your words have not fallen on deaf ears. I hear you loud and clear (lol).

She is not flying yet but I suspect she will be soon. She is stretching her long legs and flapping her wings a lot more these days. I suppose she is getting ready for "lift off" soon. That will be most interesting. Can't wait.

Have a good night.
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

As soon as they reach a month they start flying, even after almost 25 days they try to perch on something one level up and it is such a good experience to see them flying, you are going to love it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL's warning was a good one. Not to mention that people have had birds taken right off their shoulders by a fast hawk. Only takes a second. Some had had them pulled through cages by predators, so anything she is out in must be very safe. It happened to someone with one of those dogs crates, I think it was. Another had a wing pulled off through an aviary with large spaces in the wire. Awful.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh sad to know this all. Tracyf pls take care of Lucky... I know it is very hard to handle the stress of losing any pet like this.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Suggest you let Lucky learn to fly indoors.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Good morning. Agreed. No more outdoors. Glad to report that I woke up to find Lucky standing in her little seed bowl pecking around. Admittedly there was lots of seeds strewn outside the cage from her playtime but she probably ate some in the process. This is another good sign in my book. 

A few pictures from last night of Lucky at work are attached. My other half keeps remarking that Lucky's feet are huge and he is convinced that she is not a pigeon. Her eyes say pigeon to me but the beak is the throw off. Guess we have to wait and see.

Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What an adorable baby!


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi Everyone,
I do believe Lucky is getting a bit bigger. She is enjoying the seeds; yes she is eating them without issue. I am still doing the daily formula feeds so between the two I have noticed more feather spikes and her tail feathers are now distinct. I really think that she is going to do well. Not flying yet but soon. I will keep in touch.
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear that Lucky is doing well!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great!!! She is growing up. So cute. 
Tracyf, am I noticing some bald patch over crop or due to feed and water etc. it looks like that? Means feathers have parted this way?


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi Kiddie. Yes you are noting what looks like a bald patch. Its on both sides. Feathers appear to be emerging everywhere else. Its like the areas under the wings are not sprouting feathers yet. I did not think anything of it but let me know if this is a sign of anything else. Lucky is a messy eater and so the crop does get soiled with formula. I don't want to rub that area too hard to remove the dried formula. Could the dried food be causing this??
Thanks. Tracyf


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Because it is symmetrical, Im gonna say normal feather growth and it will fill in properly in its time.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

OK if at both the sides, may not be due to canker. Sometimes bald patches indicate presence of canker and so we generally ask them to treat before releasing in wild but since you don't have to release Lucky, no need to worry about that as if she shows any signs you can treat her then. Rest she looks fine, enjoy the little birdie


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lucky looks great! Good job!


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the responses ref the bald patches and the continued support!!

I am going to watch the spots but Lucky appears to be doing really well. No obvious signs of issues so I just take it day to day and just love her loads. 

She is a messy eater!! Formula usually sticks and dries on the crop and I do not want to rub the area too hard. So there are a few globs of dried formula which may be the cause for the bald areas. Maybe?? Thinking in time the feathers will grow and food particles will disappear. Trying to get her into eating more seeds as I do think this will help her grow. Here are a few more pictures; she is growing up and I am intrigued by the white feathers. 
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes white feathers now  She is growing up beautifully  
Bald patched shouldn't be due to formula, these feathers should show up now as she is growing feathers everywhere, so just keep watching


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Update: Lucky is officially starting to peck/bite at me (so sweet) not vicious at all just biting my fingers. She is almost flying (lol). She made it from her bowl onto the counter to eat with one big flap. She also loves to wing slap a lot as you lift her from one point to another. All in all her growth appears to be taking off. Question; after she eats she likes to puff out her chest; I mean really puff it out ; I was shocked to see the size yesterday. Is this is normal? Thought this was a reaction due to fear but in Lucky's case seems like its aiding food digestion. She still struggles to pick up seeds but she gets "A" for effort. Peas are going down better but she still likes formula best.
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What a cutie!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would treat for canker.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Really, seems very unusual feather growth. What can be seen in pic is chin area is almost bald and on crop too are bald patches. I would at least have metronidazole on hand because sometimes when canker starts advancing, we don't have enough time in hand to buy medicines, look for the dose and treat, sometimes it gets too late for them to recover.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky Urgent Help*

Dear All:
Sorry for the silence; which is not my norm. I REALLY Need your help.
Lucky has developed what looks like a lump in his throat, You all know I take her to work each day so I just decided to stop by my dog vet to see if anyone could help. The vet took one look at her and said she has a digestion issue in that her crop appears to be full of air. She relieved the air "pressure" via Lucky's throat but of course it f filled right back up. The diagnosis was a ruptured air sac. I wastold to keep her well feed and return in 5 days. No meds given.

Okay now let me turn to my experts - you!!! I need a step by step on this. What meds do I need to find and dosage amounts. I will send a few pictures in a few mins so you can see "the lump". Lucky is not as interested in food which is a clear sign of danger for me because she LOVES her food. Her intake is reduced to 1/2 per feeding. On the bright side she is fighting hard in that she is still walking around, chirping at the sound of my voice and trying to fly. 

A traumatic moment on Monday was her fly attempt from the window sill and landing in the bath tub below. I think she hurt her leg a little bit as she seemed to hobble a bit on Tuesday.

Will send pictures in a few mins.
Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky Urgent Help*

Sorry everyone - I need a step by step on how to treat canker. My last message was not clear on this.
Thanks.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

So is it an air sac issue, or air in the crop. If an air sac, then a needle would have to be put in under the skin to let the air out. If he released air via her throat, then it must be air in the crop. Which is it? What did he do exactly?
In some of your pics, it does look like the crop has been a bit over filled. You don't want to over feed, as it stretches the crop and will cause problems with crop emptying.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3 - the vet inserted a tube down her throat (I was not in the room) and said she released the air pressure. She said there was a ruptured air sac not crop. Said this would heal naturally but I would need to continue the feeds less food per time but increase feed number per day. Suggestion is keep her food intake up for natural heal. She wants me to come back next weds to repeat the air release again if not healed. So in short she diagnosed an air sac issue not crop. Sorry if unclear.

I just tried to take a photo but Lucky would not stretcher neck as she normally does for a good shot. I just gave her a bit of food she guzzled two nipple fulls but that's it no more. usually she will eat at least 8 nozzle fulls. I have put the heat pad under her on low and she kinda drifted off into sleep. Hubby is out with the phone charger/power cord so I cant send any pics yet.

I am a little worried as she is listless not usually jumpy self so I know she is unwell.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You wouldn't get air out from a ruptured air sac by going down the throat with a tube. Doesn't make sense. The air would have to have been in her crop.
With a ruptured air sac, the air builds up under the skin, and has to be released, with a needle. It would build up again and have to be done several times, but not a week apart. I don't understand what your vet is saying.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3 - remember I am on a Caribbean island and no disrespect intended toward the vet but its a rarity for someone to walk in to a vets office here with a pigeon in a cage for help. 

Not certain as to the vets experience level. Having said that I am prepared to take Lucky back tomorrow and share your comments with her. What do you think??


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It sounds as though you have a yeast infection in the crop from over filling and not allowing it to empty between feedings. That would make the crop fill up with air and not pass food properly. Not a ruptured air sac, but sour crop.
A picture would really be helpful.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Jay3 - lets pretend there is no vet. What would you recommend I do. I note your earlier point about not stretching the crop. This means smaller feeds. I can do that. You also suggest treating Lucky for canker. How do I g about this. can still take Lucky but reading over your emails again I don't think the vet got it right today. I am just trying to plan ahead.
Thnx.
Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3 - thanks for all the attention tonight. I will google info on yeast infection but give me your recommendation as well. Thanks.
Tracyf


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It sounds more like the baby has a sour crop from the crop not emptying after feeding and before being fed again.
*It's very important to let the crop empty before you add more food.* If you don't, the baby can get a sour crop, yeast infection or bacterial infection.
Yeast infection can be very gassy which sounds like that's what's going on in this case. 
Don't feed anything more, until the crop empties. Personally, I would ask the vet for nystatin. It's for yeast.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Charis -thank you. I will get a few pictures out asap. This will be helpful to you and Jay3. Sour crop is not fatal, right?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis' advice to ask the vet for Nystatin is a good one. You can get the Flagyll (Metronidazole) from the vet also to treat for canker.
I agree with Charis also to not feed him until the crop empties flat.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tracyf said:


> Charis -thank you. I will get a few pictures out asap. This will be helpful to you and Jay3. Sour crop is not fatal, right?


It's not fatal if you let the crop empty. The baby probably should have about 15-18 ccs per feeding, based on his size in the pictures. 
I was just looking at pictures and the crop looks way too full and gassy.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

I just summoned Hubby home on account of my emergency (lol). Left my iPhone charger in the office and so I need his (lol).. Lucky just drank some water a few minutes ago and allowed a few pictures but no stretching so I will not be able to show you the neck area. The crop is air filled I just felt it. its puffed up no lumps its just soft and puffy. She is not acting like she is in distress or pain. She is just too quiet and still for my liking. She is also dozing which is unusual as she always perks up when I am near and starts flapping. None of that tonight. Her eyes are bright but she just seems tired. Will check whether I can source Nystatin. Hoping yes then I will need to know how to administer.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ask the vet. She should give it to you, or a prescription. It will be an oral suspension, and you will will also ask her for a 1cc syringe. You will give the bird 0.3cc (1/3 of the syringe), twice daily. Morning and evening for 7 to 10 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As far as the Metro, she should get 25 mg. once daily. Ask the vet to figure out how much to give to get the 25 mg. I prefer tablets, but she will probably give you the suspension.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks Jay3 - you are the best. Here are a few pictures taken earlier.
Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3 = the 3rd photo is one from last night - all others are tonight. The difference is obvious. Agreed?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lucky is such a cutie. Hope he or she is all better soon.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks CWebster. I hope so too. She is poorly tonight but hoping tomorrow will be better with help from meds.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Remember not to feed her till the crop empties. If she is able to eat tomorrow, I would get baby applesauce, warm it with a small bit of water and give her that. The applesauce can often help the crop to empty.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's late and I'm afraid I have to get to bed or will never get up tomorrow. Have to work in the morning. Then will check in to see how it's going. Call your vet as soon as you can in the am. Nite!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh, she isn't well, so sorry to hear. 
For metronidazole pls prefer tablets as it is difficult to give them suspension, they aspirate sometimes and it is fatal. or if you mix in water, don't know if she gets the right dose. So try your best to get metronidazole in tablet.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

If the bird is still blocked up and air in crop and it is sour, ask the vet if they have any experrience with a crop wash or emptying the crop, then do the apple sauce and warm water into the crop, then MEDS for sure, not just nystatin but sometimes the crop is infected from the vent up, meaning the entire digestive system. How are the birds poop, if the poop is mint, then it is a crop issue, if the poops are bad, then it may be an infection in the gut that has worked its way up thru and to the crop, so general antibiotics would be needed, see if vet will do a fecal and yes, this can be fatal, also ask the vet if he can give subq fluids to the bird asap as if it is not getitng nutrition from the crop, it will fade as u see, tired and listeless. Time is of the essence here. Apply first aid measusres such as warmth, hydration (via i.v. or sub q) small amounts of food, treat for canker as reccomended and possible general antibiotic for gut infection. That said, do you thouroghly wash out the feed dish after each feeding, do you have the formula the proper temperature as cool formula can cause sour crop or yeast, as well as not allowing crop to be ALMOST empty during the day and completely empty over night. Good luck, I hope the little one makes it.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks CBL - Please see the following pictures. I have not seen poop like this before. Also she is a bit chirpier this morning but I am going to go back toth evet this morning. Give me your thoughts on the pictures.
Tracyf


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Bird looks thin to me, crop doesnt look bad at all for size, no air. Scrape the dry feed off the birds face with your finger nail and after every feeding take a warm microfibre cloth and wipe the feed off so it doesnt dry in the first place. 

Go buy some RAW apple cider vinigar with mother at any bulk store or health food store and put ONE drop in with the hand feeding formula and feed the bird a good feeding, make sure water is 100 to 105 degrees when the formula is mixed, keep it that temp by putting syringe or food in a cup of warm water as well for the duration of the feeding. 

See the vet, tell him u want canker meds, metronidazole or whatever he has for that. Also tell him u want a general antibotic like amoxicillian or baytril/enrofloxacin for a proper treatment. 

The poop is watery but may be so because of feeding formula with extra water.

When u take pictures make sure lighting is in front of the bird not behind, cant see squat in the one pic.

If you do not have any minerals or grits, get some as well, oyster shell grit, red brick grit, white calcium grit, whatever it takes at any pet store and give this bird some minerals. If the pet store has a vit mineral formula, buy that too, if not u can go to pharmacy and buy HUMAN baby vitminerals drops and put ONE drop in formula every few days. 

This birds feathers are ratty, I saw the back feathers near the white, and he is defiantly missing something in his growth. Parents give minerals to babies when feeding as well, as you should be too. 

To give the grit, just pop two or 3 stones of proper size in his beak and allow him to swallow. See if he will pick a few out of your hand but only a few. Sick birds will gorge on grit and can get crop impaction and that is a whole other storey.

The fact that the bird IS pooping is a good sign that means the crop is passing food and water thru the body, but he still looks guant to me, so keep feeding GET THE apple cider vinigar today asap and start that as it will help with digestion. If u can get ur hands on some probiotics, get that into him as well, even if u buy some human ones at pharmacy for now, put a small pinch in with his formula daily as well.

By size and age now I think this bird will benefit from taking thawed frozen WARMED peas and corn and feeding him one by one, do this NOW as well, as sometimes the formula is deficient for pigeons, he needs more fats. Also will put links for my dry seed pouring mouthful at a time, do both of what u see in video, may be easier and is NEEDED to force feed a bird that is not feeling well and not feeding well on its own. Start this today as well, if u can get 30 peas and corn total in him twice a day, u are doing good, if u do feed him that, then lay off the formula as it wont be needed. Or you can alternate, one feeding each at different times.

Maryann youtube videos
Feeding pigeons
pouring seeds in mouth
feeding peanuts
part 1 and 2

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkhpJMCzbFQ
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZqI8idx-SQ


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unless the crop has emptied, I wouldn't feed the bird. All that is doing is putting new food in with old, which will make things worse. When it does empty, give just baby applesauce, warmed with a little water. Just that. It will help the crops ph and will help things to move through. Wait for it to empty and then give the formula, but not too thick, as the crop will not be able to handle that right now. Wait for the crop to empty, then feed formula again. When the crop is emptying well, then you can thicken the formula. Wouldn't give solid food yet. 

How much is he pooping? How many droppings?

You do need the nystatin. Make sure you get a prescription for that. I also wouldn't give any grit or anything now, as first we need to get this straightened out, and it isn't the lack of vitamins or minerals that is causing this. It is more than likely, too much food, and not allowing the crop to empty between meals. Do not start anything solid today. The crop cannot handle it now. And the pea skins can end up just staying in the crop.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

When parents feed their own babies, they don't have problems that seem to develop when we humans have no option but to intervene.[ My pigeon parents do let their baby's crop empty before they feed them.]
I've been involved with pigeon rehab since 1986. Over half of the pigeons that end up at my place are babies. I receive in excess of 100 baby pigeons a year. The point being, I really know baby pigeons.
One of the lessons I learned early on and the hard way, I might add, is that if I did not allow the crop to empty between feedings, crop trouble was sure to follow . In the beginning, I did loose some babies due to my lack of experience and ignorance. I haven't lost a baby in years and years. 
Looking at the pictures you posted, the crop still doesn't look completely empty and you must let it empty before you add anything. Likely, the crop is sensitive, at this point and feeding seed and grit would be the incorrect thing to do right now. The crop needs a chance to heal.
Once empty, start slow. Feed about 7 ccs of warm formula with 3 ccs of applesauce , for human babies, mixed in. Once the crop empties, feed the same again and gradually increase the amount you feed up to 15-18 ccs each time. Always add the applesauce to the formula. Give the baby 5-7 days to get well before you introduce the peas. 
Once you start feeding the peas, you will needs to supplement calcium as well.
I also think it would be a good idea to take a warm wash cloth and soak the formula that's on the feathers and remove as much of the dried formula as possible.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Dear Charis and Jay3.
I have start by thanks for your interest and time taken with me. We all share the same interest and that's trying to save Lucky's life. I have told so many people already about this site and how much time you guys take out to help people like me. So thanks thanks thanks.

Today was really busy at work but I did get 30 mins to get back to the vet. Unfortunately she was in surgery but the assistant took the email received from CWebster and sent a message back. First she was unwilling to prescribe any of the meds today. She maintained her diagnosis yesterday and the only part she agreed with was using the apple cider vinegar. 

I did go to the pet store and purchased some oyster shell grit 9it was the only one they had), some fluid bird vitamin mix, I got a childrens multivitamin liquid and a bag of frozen birds eye peas and corn. I went back to the office (and its strange how things go) but decided to wait until I got home to feed Lucky. So Lucky went all day without any food and just a little water.

When I got here I mixed a small amount of the formula with the bird multi vit and made sure it was 105" and I gave Lucky a small amount. She was ravished but she did not want a lot. I opened the grit and I said would wait as it looked too pebbly. I figured I would reach out first to discuss as I was going to suggest that I smash the grit into dust before giving it to Lucky. My fear was it would get stuck in her crop.

Okay so having said the above, Lucky is on a heat pad and she seems okay. Frankly she is not a big fan of peas yet and struggles with me to her beak so I preferred to wait a bit before giving any more peas even though I bought two bags today. The formula seemed to be best up to now. 

So for the most part I have indirectly followed your instructions in part even before I read both messages. My downfall only was probably waiting a little longer to ensure the crop was completely empty.

I will just watch her for now to see how things go.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well if she maintains her diagnosis of yesterday, then it doesn't make sense, since if the air was removed by way of a tube down her throat, and not a needle under the skin, then it is a crop issue, not an air sac.
Most birds will struggle when you try to hand feed them by opening their beak and putting something in there. Normal. But it is too soon for solid food anyway. The crop should be allowed to rest and heal. Go slow.
Canker can cause a blocked crop, which doesn't empty, and yeast and bacteria will cause the crop problems we are seeing in your bird. The vet doesn't want to give you meds to treat any of those things. So what else can we say? All of those things can be gotten without the vet, but it would take time. Metro, Enroflox, Amoxycillin, and Medistatin can all be gotten online.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Hi there,
Just a quick update. Lucky is fine; she is hanging in. The air swelling is still there but its not as bad. She is eating warmed apple sauce and a little water three times per day. Her poops are back to normal; solid brown with a white tip. I am putting small drops of apple cider vinegar in each feed along with a drop of the bird vitamin mineral liquid mix. I am keeping her nice and warm, heating pad and reading lamp. She back to flapping around especially when food is about to be served. I am staying calm with her and I do believe she will be okay. I have to head to work now but I will send some photos later this afternoon/early evening.
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to hear she seems fine now. You should still have canker meds on hand, may be you can order online. Sorry if it sounds repetitive.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks Kiddie. I am working on the meds. Lucky is far from okay; she is better but still not where she should be. She actually gave me a pecky kiss today on my cheek. These birds are affectionate and very sensitive. I have learn't so much with Lucky. Its not just us humans that get attached 

Jay3/Charis: I am keeping Lucky on the applesauce/apple cider vinegar mix and her poops are back to normal so digestion and crop emptying is occurring. BUT What is still noticeable is Lucky's puffiness PRIOR AND AFTER feeding. Its like she is filled with air and with a prick of a needle she would go pop. Literally! She leans her body from left to right then stretches her neck up as tall as it can go then she releases and she flattens a bit. Its like she is holding her breath during the stretch puffs out the chest as if to release the air. She then flattens as if exhaling and the chest area deflates but not to normal. Pain is not apparent as she sometimes flaps her wings while doing this and then settles down. Its a bit weird to describe but that's my rendition. 

Jay's remedy of a pin prick stands out in my mind as it would seem that she is trying to relieve the pressure and release the air. If there was a small hole in the crop/underbelly seems the air would escape as she puffs out but its trapped. Anyway will continue as I am doing and hope for the best.

Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The pin doesn't work for air in the crop.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes they too get attached to humans, they feel our love else why would they come to us and preen and peck us, they want to gain our attention as well because they get bond to us. They too are affectionate as we are. Glad to know about your bonding with her. 

That pin prick is used for air sac which is under skin so it helps releasing the air from that but we can't release the air which is inside his crop with a needle, we will burst the crop in this way and the feed and water will be leaked out too not only the air. Putting the needle isn't for sour crop, medicine is needed for that.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Dear A
ll,
I had a very difficult weekend with Lucky but as the saying goes, all's well ends well. On Sat evening, Lucky took what I would describe as a turn for the worse. She was not eating and her little body felt extremely warm like she had a temperature. No panting but she was extremely still and the puffed up crop was extremely noticeable. The worst I have seen yet! Of course I called the vet emergency number no response and I emailed the emergency coordinates but NO RESPONSE SAT OR SUN.

At 8:00am Mon morning I took Lucky to the vet. It was extremely busy with dogs and cat. I literally felt so ignored (because I had a baby pigeon versus a sick dog or cat) that I almost walked out but I stayed just because I was so worried. 

The vet looked Lucky over, she was very calm no alarm and said she was reluctant still to prescribe or give any antibioticS. She maintained that she wanted me to force feed vinegar and water twice daily two small syringe fulls and force feed probiotic yoghurt room temperature. She showed me how and provided baby sized syringes and that was it. From the pictures I showed her taken over the weekend she agreed that Lucky was suffering from sour crop and that prescribing metro would only kill off all of the bacteria (good and bad) and spike yeast increase. I looked on at her almost in tears because I know that all of you have been advocating for me to start a course of antibiotics asap.

Anyway, the vet could see I was not happy with her directions and she finally gave Lucky a syringe full of metro not sure if it was pure or mixed with water. I did as exactly told yesterday (syringes of vinegar water mix and force fed the yoghurt). I have also done the same today.

Lucky seems better as she actually ate without me force feeding. She also jumped out of her bowl as i ate dinner and jumped into my plate to peck around. It was so funny . A clear sign that she maybe getting better. its clear birds do have a sense of smell as she went straight to the chicken on the plate and started to peck at it.

Lucky has gone back to cleaning herself again and her eyes are brighter and not as much sleeping as seen on the weekend. She is watching intently as I type this message and cleaning herself. I am relieved to say the least but I am reluctant to say that she is in the clear.

She has dropped in size and no new growth is visible. Her poops turned completely green on Monday but at least she was still pooping throughout the difficult time. I concluded (if only to convince myself she was okay) that the continued poops even though green mean't that her digestive system was still working and had not shut down. 

The extreme symptoms noted over the weekend were - high body temperature, extreme extension of her neck area as if she was trying to clear her throat, extreme puffiness, swaying from side to side and puffing out frequently, excess sleeping and the list goes on. Her neck became almost transparent and she also vomited what appeared to me to be the sour crop content. All of this has now subsided THANK GOD and i am keeping a close eye on her. 

She does not like being in the cage so she has adopted an old soft dog bed as her new home at home. I am keeping her in a warm bowl at work. 

She liked a particular window view at home (she watched other birds paly around the pool) She would sit perched on her bowl for hours and flap away happy as a pigeon could be. However the bar by this particular window is elevated and while sick she fell while sleeping on Sun. So I have changed the venue preferring to avoid any unnecessary falls and issues/injuries. I think she is beginning to get used to the new area. There has been enough going on so until she is better the dog bed will have to do.

Sorry for the long email but its been awhile since I last updated. I have not given up on Lucky in fact quite the opposite. My outlay is in the hundreds already but its worth it, 

If she pulls out of this and begins developing normally she will be very Lucky indeed!! Can't believe how I have grown so attached so thanks again for your advice and lets hope and pray that Lucky gets better soon. 
Will get some pictures out soon maybe tonight.

Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky Pics!!*

The first two pictures are from tonight. The last two are from Sunday. You can see the puddle of sour crop in the background of the 3rd picture and her extremely swollen crop area in the 4th picture. 
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your vet wouldn't give you Metro, or Nystatin for yeast? And yet she thinks it is yeast?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That makes no sense. Canker can cause yeast, but if the bird does have canker, and I believe she does, then she needs the medicine. The vet also should have prescribed Nystatin for the yeast. Did you not mention the Nystatin?

Anyway, we did tell you that those things could be ordered online, and you haven't done that either. Doing nothing but giving vinegar is not going to clear this. You need another vet, as this one knows nothing about pigeons. Or you need to get the meds yourself. If this problem continues the bird isn't going to make it. Too bad.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Jay3 - I ordered the meds and same should arrive on Fri. 
Thnx for the response.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know you care about him, a lot. But you don't have a bird vet who knows what they are doing. So it's up to you to be his advocate. If not then he doesn't stand a chance. What meds did you order?


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky*

Nystatin oral suspension 200,000 units
Metronidazole 250mg tablets

I will also seek another vet tomorrow; trying to find one with bird experience.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good job!...........


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Canker is a protazoa, a bug not a yeast, I believe it may contribute to bringing the immune system down that it may open the door to yeast. 

Sour croop can be caused by both stale food AND wrong temperature formula, as in too cold so it doesnt pass thru crop and sours. Thats why Im not a huge fan of formula. Better to mash peas and corn and give digestive enzyme and or ACV when feeding. Keeping the baby warm, under a lamp if necessary or heat pad.

Also two ways to remove gas from crop, large bore needle thru crop wall and express air manually by gently squeezing crop and or crop needle with NO syringe and releasing air thru needle by again gently sqeezing crop, I have done both ways for a budgie and a finch. The hole closes itself because it is still small, so no feed or water leaks out.

The vet did the right thing with the acv and apple sauce to get the crop moving. I have done this with success in past as well, usually 24 to 48 hours. I would agree tho that not metro but an general antibiotic be given as gut infection can back up into the crop andd cause sour crop or crop stasis secondary to the gut infection. 

Im glad the bub is doing better, keep up the good work, and I still dont agree that the crop be totally empty between daytime feedings as it is not natural. But if you want to be on the total paranoid safe side, its not the end of the world. I have hand fed many birds from hatch, to fledge as small as teeny 1/2 long finches at hatch. Its hard work, not easy and the biggest challenge was keeping the bird and formula warm enough to not get sour crop or crop stasis. Lucky is lucky and I hope continues to be. Cant wait for updates and to see this bird fully grown in all its glory.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so glad to hear Lucky is improving! Thank you for all the love you are giving him. Good job! He is such a cutie.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No one said that canker was a yeast. I had said that either one can cause the crop problem. Canker often causes blockages in the crop, which in turn stop it from emptying and can cause sour crop. Yeast can also cause it. Adding new food to old, over feeding and not letting the crop empty between feedings can cause it. 
Nothing wrong with giving formula. Giving cold peas and corn will have the same effect as cold formula. And over feeding is over feeding, regardless of what you are feeding. Should be the right temp, and the baby needs to be warm or he won't digest either. A heating pad set on LOW with a layer of towel over it, then put the baby on it. He cannot digest if not warm enough. Letting the crop empty between feedings is the better way to go. Safer. You may think it isn't natural, but there is nothing natural about a human raising and feeding a baby pigeon to begin with. And many more things can go wrong than when the parents are feeding them. 

Making a hole through to the crop is not the way to go. And I think we have all done the ACV or applesauce to get things moving. I think that had been suggested earlier on.
The vet didn't suggest apple sauce. She suggested ACV in water. But I think the warmed applesauce with a bit of water added which also works well, would be easier for her to feed the bird


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Can we have more pics of her/him, she is surely unique  The pic with the stretched neck reminds me of a sea horse lol


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Happy to know that the bird is doing better and more happy that you ordered metronidazole and nystatin online. Hope she recovers soon from her illness. Also your vet is very complicated, when they don't know anything either they should read on their own or listen to others. Playing with a life with wrong diagnosis and treatments is a bad idea. What Metronidazole given once with a syringe is going to do, antibiotics take 24-48 hours to respond and so these are repeated periodically, why she gave just once, is she treating it as a pain killer? If she doesn't know about action mechanism of an anti biotic or anti protozoan medicine I wonder what she does with dogs and cats!!!


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

CBL said:


> Better to mash peas and corn and give digestive enzyme and or ACV when feeding.


A side question: what kind of peas and corn you talk about, frozen ones? And what kind of enzyme and from where you buy it?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ya Andrei, frozen peas and corn sometimes u can get them together or not. ACV IS a digestive enzyme in iteslf but if u need stronger, at any health food or druug store. They actually make an animal enzyme called prozyme and another one I cant remember the name of but from vet only and very expensive.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you! I hoped is some non-animal enzyme.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Dear ALL:

Lucky passed away on Wednesday. Without the meds, I believe that Lucky fought a good fight but she was not strong enough. I did the ACV, warm applesauce and ensured that the temp was right etc. In short, I did all I could. Lucky's meds arrived yesterday.

I am still reeling and can't begin to outline more details. I miss her terribly and tear up just looking at the photos. Iits hard to get her out of my thoughts. A few pictures taken the day before she died are attached. 


I was so cut up that my husband has tirelessly phoned around to persons trying to find anyone on island that raises/cares for pigeons. He finally succeeded and found Andy; a retired gentleman who has been raising pigeons since 1968. 

He is wonderful and has a entire house dedicated to his beloved birds. He raises them from eggs and has I would say 60+ pigeons all types. I could not believe my eyes when I walked into his bird house. Each hen/cock has its own coop within the loft and he has them all named gender separated and the are all gorgeous and healthy! He even had babies the size of Lucky that he is hand feeding and raising. I was SO amazed. 

Glad to finally find someone in Nassau that shares the passion care and love for pigeons. 

As a gift and to cheer me up he kindly gave me two homing pigeons to help me get over Lucky. I have named them Adelaide and Dunmore.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

This is my last post under Lucky. Just wanted to post a few more pictures of Adelaide and Dunmore.
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so sorry for the loss of Lucky! You went above and beyond caring for her and she was a cutie and will be missed. Am glad you got two new pigeons. When we lost Phoebe, we were inconsolable but got a new bird who can never replace Phoebe but we will cherish her just the same. Your new birds are lovely!


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks Cwebster. I am so emotional sometimes but you are right, Adelaide and Dunmore will not replace Lucky. I will love them just as much but its not the same. Thanks for the kind words; they mean a lot.
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Adelaide and Dunsmore are really beautiful. I'm still crying about Phoebe as she was beyond special. But I know she would want us to keep caring for pigeons. We planted a pretty tree in front of the window where she would look out and that is where we buried her. We call it Phoebes tree. I understand how special Lucky was. We will all miss hearing about her but look forward to hearing about your new babies.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am so sorry to hear about Lucky, felt sad as I know you were so attached to her and it is hard for you to overcome the grief. Adelaide and Dunsmore are beautiful birds and hope they help you in changing your mind from your loss. Lucky was really lucky to be loved and cared for in her tough time. She will be missed.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Lucky!!*

Thanks Kiddy, its been tough, but the new additions will help, never replace but its was a great learning and loving experience so no regrets. Adelaide & Dunmore and different and extremely playful. Certain I will have tales to share soon.
Tracyf


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Was sad to read about Lucky, I looked forward to seeing what color she would turn out to be. Cant believe meds showed up just after. It was a valiant effort. 

The two new ones are stunning, and I am partial to anything with white in it. Just gorgeous and you will enjoy them Im sure. Keep us in the loop, love to see more pics of them out of cage enjoying life in house or in coop. So pretty. Are they related? Do you intend to breed them? If not, you will have to keep them separate especially if related so they dont mate. If not related, how many DO you want lol, as they breed fast. 

It may have been a good idea to get two hens, keep eachother company and no babies  Unless of course you want some.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't have to keep them separate. They will be company for each other. If you don't want any babies, just buy some fake solid plastic eggs. When eggs are laid, you simply replace them with the fake eggs. They can sit on the fake eggs for the 18 days or whatever. If you were to just remove their eggs, they will just lay right away again. This would eventually deplete the hen of calcium stores. By replacing them with the fake, it gives her a rest before laying again. This is done all the time and very easy. Having them separated makes no sense, as each would be lonely without a companion.
Nothing wrong with siblings pairing up when they are just your pets, and you aren't going to breed them. Even if they did slip a baby by you, he/she could be fine. That's what they do.
Even with 2 hens, they would still lay eggs and sit on them. Of course, they wouldn't hatch, but this can be accomplished with the fake eggs as well. And you do want young birds to be able to bond with them when young. Pretty hard to be sure of whether hen or cock at that young age. Many think they can tell, and many guess wrong, and you end up with one of each anyway.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I would never advocate incest breeding. I know breeders try to label it line breeding but its just wrong. Also if you allow the hen to keep laying eggs back to back even if you let them sit for 18 days, and give them calcium, they still wont be able to keep up, they will still deplete the calcium as they are not chickens. Do your research, make your own decision. 
For all you know you have two hens, or two cocks or one of each, time will tell. Enjoy your birds


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I doubt that the birds view it as incest, and unless the owner is prepared to get 2 more birds, (if indeed they are brother and sister), then letting them pair up is not as wrong as you make it out to be. A bird living alone, without the companionship of another bird is wrong. Wrong and lonely. So really no reason to make them live a solitary life, with only the time that the human companion has to give them. Nothing wrong with it, and fake eggs work pretty well most times. And tho it was suggested that 2 hens would be better, they will lay eggs just as often if they choose to pair up. So don't see much difference. Most people who own pairs in a pet situation, and many lofts, don't separate them, and they do just fine. Of course they should be given calcium and D3, but laying eggs is what they do. You aren't going to change that by putting two females together. And they are fine, as it is what nature intended them to do. They go on for years without depleting themselves. Just make sure that they get the vitamins and the calcium they need. Living separate is not natural, and a lousy existence. Pretty silly to do, just to avoid incest. LOL.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Agree with fake eggs, still disagree with siblilng breeding, they can still be happy with one out and one in cage and even alone with a human as Krys does and the bird is very happy, so flock be it human or bird is better than interbreeding siblings. Just my opinion. I have 4 hens in the house, let them out together, alone, in pairs in cages out in flight, they are always busy, even if I let one out and not the other, just hearing eachother coo, they enjoy time with me and eachother, so to each their own, I just wound not encourage mating so close. I have seen it whe someone gave me a budgie that was from siblling breeding, she was physically and mentally disabled but a very sweet bird, but what a disaster. Not saying it will happen with every breeding but why take the chanse, if you could get a pair of hens, they get along great. All my girls do.

My runt hangs with my jacobin, my racer hangs with my roller and it is one big happy family.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeons are meant to live in a flock. A flock of humans is not the same thing. They want a mate. If they don't have one, and they then view the owner as their mate, that is certainly not natural, and can be very confusing to the bird. I don't care what the bond is between the bird and owner, it can never really take the place of being with another bird. And the babies would normally come out just fine. And if you aren't going to breed them, what difference does it make? If you believe that they are as complete spending some time daily with a human then they would be having a mate or companion of their own, or being in a cage while another bird is out, and always separate, then you are kidding yourself.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Newbies!!*

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the information. First, I don't know if they are related. Its a bit too late to make the call now. Andy said that they are a hen & cock pair and so my intent was to keep them together and then worry about babies when it happens. We were planning to build an outdoor coop but I must confess I do like having them indoors constantly. The present cage allows for me to have them in the kitchen during the day and take them out at sunrise and sunset. They seem to enjoy this. Question. My house is fully airconditioned. Is the cool air okay? Its not freezing (roughly 68 degrees). I have not taken them out of the cage other than to clean it which is once every other day (although I have been cleaning every day lately- don't need to but it makes me feel better that their area is constantly cleaned.)

My relief at the moment is that they are eating well; no issues and drinking lots of water. I am giving them calcium tablets (broken) and popped into their mouths. No issue and I have put liquid vitamins into their drinking water. 

I don't intend to separate them as they dote on each other. They clean each other, eat together etc. I like Jay's idea of fake would be fantastic.eggs. A flock of 4 maybe 6 is my present MAX (if babies become a reality). Another Lucky would be good (lol).
Tracyf


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Letting them constantly lay eggs to be replaced with wooden or fake is a recipe for disaster as well, the hen wont be able to keep up with calcium supplies and will rob from the bones. They will lay and lay again and again and again if you let them try, I have recently read that any hen has enough calcium to lay about 3 eggs before it starts to rob calcium from her own bones. So they will sit for the 18 to as much as 30 days as mine have done and they will lay again. The cycle will go on till she is good and depleted and you have health issues. You cant replace the calcium and salts fast enough. Another good recipe for problems is never letting them out of cage for excersize, so if you keep them in the kitchen in a small cage and they dont get to stretch their wings, you are looking for further trouble with their health. I let my girls out many times a day for a few hours at a time and cage them overnight and when I leave the house. Kris has his in a room free flying for the day. So there are options, but to be locked in a cage all day is not good. (if u do that, u didnt mention either way)

Your idea of a small flock is fine if you have a large enough coop for them OR you will run into aggression issues, just ask Kiddy, if a bub is a male and u try to keep them in same cage, dad will harm him, if a hen, he will try to mount his own baby, you will have to have many cages in house to house each bird, and if the babies are of opposite sex and you leave them together, they will try to mate as well. Kiddy ended up with 4 cages now, to keep parents from breeding and to keep babies from trying to breed mother and father trying to breed daughters, she manages them with separate times out of cage time for each to get wing stretch. If you r ok with that, then no worries, enjoy your house full of birds. The info are just facts and meant to help.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi CBL - points taken and understood. I know you are giving good advice which I am grateful for. You too Jay. 

The plan is to have an outdoor coop so they can stretch their wings adequately but com
e in after hours - safer. I will get the coop done once Tropical Storm Erika passes. 

I have not yet let them fly around the house/or room yet but I am totally sensitive to not wanting the birds to happy and free, I have never supported cages and cooping up any animal. 

As for the eggs, that's a bit more difficult. if I have a pair (male and female) then am I understanding you correctly that it is best to separate and maybe replace with a same sex companion? i.e two hens OR ensure to pair up again but avoid any new related bird given possibilities of incest that may lead to a disabled bird.

I don't want health issues if I can avoid it.

If I have two hens then the egg laying will continue correct? and the calcium issue remains? Just want o be clear. 
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes outdoor coop will be much better for them if you want to breed them, else you will have to get as many cages as birds because in small indoor cages no one will adjust with others. As far as AC, if that's normal temperature inside, it's OK but if it is cold, they are sensitive to cold air as I see mine ones fluff up in AC so they should get normal temperature.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I guess according to CBL, letting them breed is wrong, using fake eggs is wrong, and the only way to keep pigeons is alone, separate from any other pigeon, because they will lay eggs. Does that make sense? Gee, what do they do in the wild? They lay eggs and in about 18 days they hatch. Then in about 2 or 3 weeks time they lay again. Somehow, keeping a bird solitary and not allowing it to have a mate is not making sense to me. What would be the point of having a lone bird in a cage? It would be like solitary confinement. What do all the people with lofts of birds do? As long as they get the right amounts of calcium supplemet and vit. D3, they will be fine.
A decent enclosure outside with a wired in attachment for them to get out into the sunshine and fresh air, and bathe, and stretch their wings, would be great for them. You could always add another pair later if you wanted.
You don't want to keep giving calcium in pills. Too much calcium is also not good. Buy a good supplement for them, like CalciBoost that you can put in their drinking water a couple of times a week.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Even a lone hen or pair of hens will lay eggs. Not letting them pair up if they are paired seems unnecessary and unkind.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tracy...this must all be very confusing and I'm sorry about that.
I have had siblings mate up and have "oops " babies and the babies are just fine. Never has there been a problem of any kind with the babies. The idea that it is incest is just ridiculous.
Pigeon hens lay eggs. It what they are good at. Even if you were to separate your two, the hen would still lay eggs from just hearing his voice. I promise it will do no harm to leave then together and it's also the kindest thing to do. 
It's ture that hen's do have egg problems due to lack of calcium. They need calcium on a regular basis and vitamin d3 . The body can't process the calcium without the vitamin d3. In the wild, they get the vitamin d3 from direct contact with the sun. If your birds will be outside and able to bask in the sun every day you will only need to supply them with oyster shell. If they will be outside and not have access to direct sunlight for at least 20 minutes each day, you will need to supply them with a calcium supplement, such as Calciboost, that has calcium and vitamin d3. 
Just to add, many folks think that if they put their bird in a window, that is an adequate way to get vitamin d3. Unfortunately, that is not the case as the glass filters the benefits of the sun.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Newbies*

Dear All,
Here is the latest on Adelaide and Dunmore. The outdoor coop is underway. 
They are out of the cage from about 7:00 am - 7:00pm and have free range of the kitchen during this time. To many the clean up is a lot of work but until the coop is ready its the only way. I spend about 45mins per day cleaning up after them buts its okay. Once the coop is ready this will cut down to almost zero. 

I must say that these birds appear to be highly intelligent. They respond to the open door cage so out they come in a morning. Its yeahhh finally!!! Once one flies out the other immediately follows. I take out one of the birds the other follows. Once I return in the evening and take out the food bin they know to go back in the cage for clean water and food

They are responsive to sound and are both flying. 

They also had their first bath on Sat. Admittedly it was a make shift turkey pan filled with warm water but they loved it. Once one went in and starting flapping around the other immediately followed. 

They appear in sync with one another and this appears to be a good thing. Separating at this point is out of the question. they are both eating well and I am incorporating a small drop of vitamins in their daily water and grit in their food. They have not shown a real love yet for peas but they are gobbling down the seed mixture. 

Hoping the daily freedom will remove any aggressive possibilities; I have not yet detected any of that. Not sure yet if we have a pair so no eggs to report on.

A few pictures are attached. The last one shows how lucky they are; sitting on the dock of the bay watching the boats go by on a Sat afternoon. 
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are adorable. Make sure when out in the sun, they do have some shade to get into if they need it. Look very cute together. Would love to see pics of the coop when finished. Will they be staying outside once it's finished? If you are planning on just bringing them outside during the day, then just to let you know, if they do lay eggs and are on them, then it won't really be possible to bring them outside, as they won't want to leave them. If the coop and aviary are where they stay, then not a problem.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely pair! Glad things are going so well.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I feel how things inspire us sometimes. I think you never thought of having pigeons and coop ever before you got Lucky? A little thing came and now you are there to give some others good life, shelter, love and care. Feel how we get changed sometimes. You fell in love with pigeons because of Lucky and now ready to do everything for their pleasure. Cleaning up and caring for them after your work don't bother you. Sounds great  
You have beautiful babies, love the colors and they seem very happy with you and so you are. Keep it up


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Bahmian Newbies!!*

Dear Kiddy, CWebster and Jay 3 - thanks so much for your continued attention to my posts. The Bahamian Newbies are doing great thus far and I really appreciate hearing from you all!! 

To Kiddy - yes you are so right. Its amazing how one little baby named Lucky sparked this all off. I still miss her/him and will be planting a tree this weekend in a nice little spot in my front garden. A remembrance of sorts for Lucky who I miss and still think about all the time. I talk less and less about her/him but will never forget her/him. I have always had dogs growing up so my love for animals was within me from day 1. I just never took the time when it came to birds. 

Having birds let alone a coop was never on the radar but now it is and I would not change a thing. I talk to these birds like they are human and take great delight in caring from them. 

To CWebster - all is well now and hope that it remains that way. I have learned quite a lot since caring for Lucky and hope that Adelaide and Dunmore will do just fine. I am kinda hopeful for a little one from them to replace Lucky so we will see. 

To Jay3 - Yes they are adorable and in my own way I hope and feel that I am doing all the right things for them. I will of course send pictures of the coop when its done. It is going to be nice when completed a real display piece for my garden. The envy of the pigeon world in my neighborhood so to speak.

I take your point on eggs and not disturbing them during this time. Ideally I would want them in the coop during the day only and indoors at night but this is probably impractical. The coop will provide full time shelter and no movement necessary. I do like it the way it is now where they remain pet like which is really fostered through the close handling and being indoors balanced with the flight freedom and almost daily exposure to sunshine. 

We will just have to see how it goes.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you handle them a lot and spend a lot of time with them, then they will remain friendly when put outside. That won't change. You can still spend a lot of time with them outside, and feeding treats will help. They love chopped up unsalted peanuts. First they have to be introduced to them as food. Mix some (not a lot) into their feed mix so that they will eventually try them. Then they will love them, and you can offer them to the birds as treats from your hand. They will fly to you for them.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

*Bahamian Newbies*

Great idea Jay. Will try it out. I am fascinated at the moment reading all the new posts from beginning to end and note you always have a starring role lol. Keep up all the good work!!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You people did a wonderful job. Glad things are looking up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You give me too much credit. But thanks. I think you will do very well with them, and will get a lot of enjoyment from them. Keep us posted.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, please keep us posted.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to know you have been an animal lover always, probably everyone here has this born instinct


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Jay3 - both birdies love the chopped up peanuts. Great tip thnxx. Bought them a couple of budgie toys today and that's going well. They find the toys fascinating, and they have been busy playing versus going to bed. I am amazed everyday at how smart these birds are. They are now flying to me when I call their names. Crazy as it sounds I sing their names and keep repeating the names - and tonight they both flew to me when I di this. They also love to stare at me and tilt their heads when I am talking like they are trying to understand what I am saying. You know how some dogs tilt their heads as you talk well my birds do something similar. I will to video this one day so you can see what I mean. Its really awesome. 

Its almost 10:30pm here and they are still flying around the kitchen and playing with the toys. Adorable - I am loving my new pigeons.
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update Tracy, but time to get those guys in bed. I know it's fun to keep them up and enjoy them, but they are birds, and have more delicate systems than say a dog or cat. They are supposed to get sleep from the time the sun goes down. Birds need a lot of sleep to stay healthy. So thank you for the update, but get them tucked in now. LOL.
Lots of mine know their names too. Pigeons are very smart.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi there. I think that one of my newbies has pox. There are two small warts that have appeared. The first is on the beak and the other is just above the left eye. Nothing in the throat area yet just the two warts. Whats the best way to approach this bearing in mind my past vet experience on island. I will get a few pictures out shortly.
Tracyf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Do they have exposure to mosquitoes?
Haven't seen the pic yet but if you think so you should separate them and keep him away from mosquitoes else the another one might get infected. Pls post the pics so it can be better understood.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi Kiddy hope these photos work. Took earlier while outside and before heavy rainstorm. Will try to get some more. 

Yes we do have mozzies here. Even though I have public govt and private spraying for mozzies and other garden bugs the heavy heavy rains lately have spiked the bug numbers. It will be like this till Nov (end of hurricane season). This is one of my issues with the outdoor coop. The summer months (June - Nov) always brings lots of bugs even though my garden is immaculate, well groomed and sprayed. 
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Gorgeous bird!


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Thanks CWebster.
Jay3- are you there? Can you take a look at the "little" wart on my birdies beak - is it pox. What do you think?
Kiddy - is the picture good enough?
Tracyf


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could be. Can we see the one over the eye?
Here, on the dark damp days that mosquitoes like so much, I drop pet screen down over the aviary. The loft windows are large, but there I have shutters with screens on them.
This doesn't keep out every insects, but keeps out most.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes could be pox if so many mosquitoes. I don't know how mosquito repellents do there, here I use it for 1-2 hours at least before bed, don't use for more than that because could be toxic and then latch the door. We have two doors on a single entrance, one wooden and one with mosquito proof gauge, so if we have to open the wooden one for air, the another is always closed during nights, else the rooms will be full of mosquitoes.
Well, think for any measure to keep them away from all the insects. A better closer pic would do good. Hope he recovers soon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

At night the loft is closed to insects. The one open window to the aviary can be closed, and if it is hot out I leave it open, but have made a frame which has screening on it, and that goes in the window frame and window gets closed down on it to keep mosquitoes out.
You have to keep them out. 
If pox, then it will run it's course. It may not get very bad, or could get to be so bad that you have to hand feed the birds while they go through it. Keep an eye on it and see if it gets any larger. And please see if you can post the pic of the eye.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Thanks for the tips; really useful. Will get some close ups and send tomorrow. Too late now. 
Tracyf


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hello there. Just an update on the birdies, the beak 'wart" has disappeared and there does not appear to have been any spread from one to the other bird. They both seem fine and are growing. I will have to take some pictures and send out this weekend. I am leaving them out all day in the kitchen to fly around freely and they go back into the cage to eat and sleep when they are ready. They have taken a real fancy to the chopped up peanuts which is a daily treat usually evenings around this time before lights out, Its my way of compensating for my long days at work. They seem to be very much in love with each other and great company. They are always cleaning each other and they follow each others move. When one flies they both fly, when one eats the other follows and so on. 

I must admit that they have had little outdoor time this week but I will make up for this on the weekend. 
Tracyf


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Tracyf, great to hear that they are doing so well!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad they are both well. Thanks for the update. Go easy on the peanuts, as they do love them, but too many are not good for them.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks for the update Tracyf. 
Glad to know they both are fine. 
What about the lesion near eye? Has that disappeared too?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh yes forgot to share, I recently came to know that this site was created out of love of a pigeon named Lucky, that was a beautiful story but later on Lucky was killed by a raccoon sadly and see this site helps so many 'Lucky' birds, felt amazing, so thought to share.


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## Tracyf (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi there - Bahamian birdies are well, still growing, no eggs yet and all is well BUT....The larger of the two birds has started to peck at my hands when I go to pick him up. Also he will peck at the other bird when I am around. Is this normal??


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's normal. They change their behaviors as they grow up.


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