# Polygamous mating



## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

I have heard that there is a breeding method called "polygamous mating" which involves one male and several hens. It seems that the hens are obliged to sit on the eggs and take care of the chicks all by themselves. Is this true?? 
I hope not. Wouldn't it be wrong and cruel to interfere with the nature of these birds which is to build a nest and bring their little ones up together?! But perhaps all this is nonsense in which case please forgive me. If I don't ask I don't know.Gladys


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Hi Gladys,

There is indeed a polygamous method of breeding where one cock will fertilize more than one hen at a time. This method always involves fostering the eggs to another pair of birds for them to raise. It is a very effective way of dispersing a set of genes over a wider portion of the population. This allows you to more effectively determine the viability of a given pigeon to your breeding program. 

I assure you that this does not involve leaving a single parent to raise the babies.

Hope this helps.

Dan


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I have heard of this technique too and would like more details on how it can be done properly


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i've searched the web and could not get any realy info how to breed the birds this way.


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Thank you Learning for your reply. It is good to know that the hens will not be obliged to do all the "work" by themselves but it seems to me that this method still interferes with their normal way of life depriving them from their right (and joy I suppose) of forming a couple, having a companion of heir own with whom to share their life and responsibilities. Any other opinions? Gladys


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I guess the way most people look at it is that throughout the course of agricultural history, people have manipulated their environment to increase efficiency in their livestock and food supply. Genetic testing and manipulation through inbreeding, selective pressure and limited matings are all techniques that have been used for centuries. We would not be able to feed the people of the world if these techniques were not used both in the development of vegetable and animal products. (Look at the history of the feed corn we eat today). 

I guess the people that find this offensive in some way don't have to use these methods, but for any advancement in the species to occur, some sort of genetic control must be used. 

Hope this helps,

Dan


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## carlos43 (Oct 16, 2007)

Gladys: Yes, there is such a thing as polygamous mating. It is complicated
and the only reason to do it is to maximize the concentration of the genes of
one cock in the population of your loft...mating one cock to a number of hens,
generally three hens. The method requires a special breeding box with 4
separate compartments...3 hen boxes with nests and a "bull-barn" for the 
cock.
This box must be especially constructed and manipulated by the breeder.
If you are serious about doing it, you can contact me and I will send you 
a diagram of how to construct the polygamous breeding box, if I can find it
in my files. Or you can try to contact Guil Rand of Salt Lake City. He is an
expert on the subject. Carl.

P.S. Dan's right the eggs are immediately passed on to foster pairs for final parenting.


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## carlos43 (Oct 16, 2007)

Warren: Are you the one who was interested in polygamous breeding? If so, and the reason you want to use it is to improve your 
stock, it has a place, but it requires one outstanding cock bird.
You may want to purchase such a bird or you may just want to use foster pairs to raise youngsters off your best pair or two.
This can be done with a few pairs of roller fosters...they are great parents...will sit on a stone. Get rid of all of your seriously flawed
birds and breed as many as you can off the best ones using fosters.
Foster method: 1. set up 5 or 6 pairs of rollers. 2. Try to get your main pairs coordinated in laying timing with your fosters.
3. When your main pairs lay the first egg, take it away and put in a container in the house on cotton batting...same with the second.
Mark them carefully with a dull pencil, so you can remember who's who. 4. As soon as a foster lays...take away both eggs and replace
with one or both from the main pair. You are off and running. 
It is said that unincubated eggs will stay in good shape for up to 10 days at room temp. I have had success with eggs I stored for
a week. Carl


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Carl, Here is my reply,

Compared to what is available I am suppose to have one of th ebest breeding pairs of german beauties in Sri Lanka. So i dont think I need to purchase any more cocks + i have a lot of young off that cock that i am keeping to breed from.
I have a stock of indian fantail cross that i uses as foster parents for my Beauties. 
I have a few questions - will the 3 beauty females all at the same time. When i remove there eggs they will re lay in 10days time. I guess I will have to have another 3 pairs of foster parents ready and so on.

How should the cage be built for this system.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Warriec,

There are several ways of doing this. Carl's is one that I am sure is successful for him. I do know of people that have been successful breeding one cock to several hens and not had any special set up at all. You just have to have fosters that went down on eggs at approximately the same time as the hit pair. After you have fostered the first round, you can either have the hit pair raise the second round or foster them to a second foster pair and by the time the hit pair has laid again, the youngsters in the 1st foster nest should be about ready to wean, making them eligable to foster again. It does take a lot of juggleing and excellent record keeping to keep it all straight, but it certainly can and has been done.

Dan


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I was thinking about the whole set. I have 1 real question. will the 3 hens lay eggs at once or about a week apart


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Thank you very much Carl for all your trouble in explaining the polygamous mating to me. I must say I owe you a good laugh. No, my dear boy, I would be the last person to indulge in such a practice. I love to see these little beings kissing and seducing their mates to make a COUPLE, building their nests and sharing the care of their little ones tohether. That's their nature and it is beautiful. I believe these birds have feelings and desires, I couldn't frustrate them. I'm sorry for this misunderstanding and thank you again for your trouble. 

Learning, I appreciate your reply giving your point of view. I, too, am for improvement and progress but I think there are certain limits that should be respected. Vegetables do not have feelings animals do have them, at least that is the way I think. Thank you again. Gladys


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Gladys,

I can certainly appreciate your point of view. I was just trying to help people understand the purpose and use for such systems.

Thanks,

Dan


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

That's fine Dan, that is the way I took it. Thanks again.
Nobody else interested in this subject? Other opinions?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Gladys, 

I'd hope by now that you knew that I'm not a genuine "breeder" of pigeons. I keep pigeons because I enjoy the birds themselves and don't practice any such breeding methods or encourage them.

I know this technique exists within the pigeon community, but my understanding is that no hens are left to tend eggs & babies alone. Even unscrupulous breeders know that pigeon chicks need 2 parents to raise them into healthy and vibrant youngsters.

When this method is practiced, a certain and highly esteemed cock bird is chosen to breed with many females in hopes of siring several excellent quality offspring. Polygamy itself among pigeons isn't unheard of at all either. Males will at times "roam" and have 1 or 2 other mates on the "side" and this is not unusual in nature. In those cases though, the male bird will stick with his true mate and first companion over the "others".

I hope this helps to answer your question.


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Hi Brad,

Many thanks for your comments. I am very happy to hear from you. Regarding this subject if I insisted on it it is because sometimes I find myself in the situation to "defend" the pigeons and the pigeon lovers. Recently somebody put in doubt the sincerity of pigeon lovers and came out with the subject of polygamous mating, something I had never heard of before and I was at a loss to reply to this. In fact I even thought they were having me on. Before I involve myself in a discussion I like to be sure I know what I'm talking about, that being the reason for this thread. 

Thanks again Brad and to all of you who took the time to reply. Gladys


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