# Not flying yet



## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I have some young birds that gotta be over 31/2 months old. Ive had them since Dec 13. They are trapped trained and will come in when I shake the feed.
When I let them out They go to the roof of the loft or my roof. Once in a blue like today they will fly. They'll take there laps land on my roof I will shake the can and they will trap. 
When are they really gonna start flying? Like when I open the avairy that they will take off? Not just sit around.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

some do some dont'. I have noticed really well breed homers or race birds really, tend to fly and start to route. mine, non racing homers do as yours do, a few laps and thats about it. soooo they need to be road training to get them flying. basket them up and take them away in the yard a few time to release them then across the street etc...move down the road farther and farther and they will get their flying time in to keep them in shape. or I have heard some will flag their birds, which is let them out get a flag on a long pole and wave it when they look like their going to land, keep flagging them till you think they have gotten enough fly time in. either way flying is what they are doing and that is keeping them in shape to go those long miles when you do a release from home.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

When I let them out should let them come out on there own like I do. Or like shoo them out. Because when I open the trap and the screen area they know its time to come out but like I said they will hang around. I am gonna start that road training to see what happens.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

JRNY said:


> I have some young birds that gotta be over 31/2 months old. Ive had them since Dec 13. They are trapped trained and will come in when I shake the feed.
> When I let them out They go to the roof of the loft or my roof. Once in a blue like today they will fly. They'll take there laps land on my roof I will shake the can and they will trap.
> When are they really gonna start flying? Like when I open the avairy that they will take off? Not just sit around.


They are still young and still learning their surroundings. Give them more time. They will start flying when they are ready. At 31 days old, their feathers might not be fully grown in yet.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

SouthTown Racers said:


> They are still young and still learning their surroundings. Give them more time. They will start flying when they are ready. At 31 days old, their feathers might not be fully grown in yet.


they are three and a half months old, not 31 days old, they are ready to get in the air.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

JRNY said:


> When I let them out should let them come out on there own like I do. Or like shoo them out. Because when I open the trap and the screen area they know its time to come out but like I said they will hang around. I am gonna start that road training to see what happens.


yes, let them come out on their own. when they are all out, then you can flag them. or like before start basket training, they will have no choice but to fly then, start slow. kind of like a human getting in shape, it takes time to build muscle. the further out you get the longer they will have to fly. but do not go too far too soon. side note: if they do seem sluggish, make sure they are dewormed and droppings look healthy.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> they are three and a half months old, not 31 days old, they are ready to get in the air.


Woops! I guess I read that wrong. How many birds are we talking about?


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Right now I just have five 09's out. Mister hawk scared the others. Plus all my breeders. Just trying to get started. But like today they stood together and flew nice. I think its a matter of time . I have noticed everytime they have flown its been a little longer then the previous time they flew. They stay visible no routing.

Poop is good and dewormed. Nice strong birds. When there out they so like hyped up. When they take off. They dooo take off. Like I said I think its a matter of time.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

JRNY said:


> Right now I just have five 09's out. Mister hawk scared the others. Plus all my breeders. Just trying to get started. But like today they stood together and flew nice. I think its a matter of time . I have noticed everytime they have flown its been a little longer then the previous time they flew. They stay visible no routing.
> 
> Poop is good and dewormed. Nice strong birds. When there out they so like hyped up. When they take off. They dooo take off. Like I said I think its a matter of time.


I think you are right!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Crate them and release them a few time in the yard to get use to being crated. then start taking them down the road.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

ok...if u think they are really healthy........locked them up for two days and put 50% barely on their existing feeds..( but donot over fed them)..after 2days loft fly them,,,, i bit you a soon as you open that door this birds will be disappear at your site and start routing far enough and long enough that you will start pulling your hair and asking where the birds....  

p.s.... do not fly them along with old birds just strickly young birds....


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If you do box them and take them away from home, make sure the sit in the box at least 30 min. at the release point. They need to orient thier self, I've found they home a lot better.
Dave


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Well this is what happen today. I boxed them and they where hungry. Took them 1 block released them 1 came back quick. But it went back looking for the others. Which where on a roof. That bird flew off again came back but decided to go to the others again after a hawk went after it. I live in a very crowded neighborhood of one family homes. Anyway. I came in the house to get a cup of coffee. Go back out the birds are not on the roof. I see them flying. Im like ok. Then they disappear. Well I decide to drive around the block to see if any are around to see if I could spot them. Well I drive slowly around the house they where at. BINGO. Theres mister hawk on my check having lunch in the yard. I stood looking in amazement. Just couldnt beleive it. Especially that I found the hawk with one of the birds. This was about 10:30 am. I have seen 2 fly around and its 2:42pm and raining. Nothing yet.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

It is 4:00 pm
Hawk 1 ? JRNY 0
Jets 7 Colts 6


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

just a tip for next time ,when you release your birds from a box for the first few times it really should be from within sight of the loft ,it just helps them get the idea of what to look for once they zoom out the little release door.. then you can start taking them further on down the road .. hope more of them do come back for you ,winter is a very bad time of year to train youngbirds though with all the hawks around .


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If the hawk spooked them No telling how far they flew. Now Training young in hawk season in a risk but a need. If they trapping good. And have set the loft for say 10 days You can jump them up AT the loft They would make short passes then come back. Look for hawks first. The stronger they get in the wing and the farther they fly when spooked. Hope you get more back.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

First thing I would like to say is you made a mistake crating your birds and releasing them in cloudy weather with rain or rain coming for thier first toss. Birds need to orient with the sun until the are trained for a little while. Next, make sure to watch your birds fly up and if they land chase them up,2 claps of the hand may help when you open the crate. Try crating your birds during sunny days and place the crate in the yard in the sun where they can see the loft and leave them there for an hour,then let them out so they know to come to the loft after being released from the crate.Call them in after you release them from the crate. Try this a couple of days then take them down the block and make sure they don't roof potatoe when you let them out. Hope you get your birds back, and look for hawks before you release them and then look again. Sorry for your loss.
Kurps


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

This is not the 1st time this lil stock have been chased by a hawk. But it was the worst. I think the rain held them up. It started raining like 1:30 and these all started like 10:30. They where really spooked. Even though it will be raining tommorrow. Lets see what happens.


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## Gnuretiree (May 29, 2009)

How many did you get back? Today is going to be very windy and raining. Not the best conditions for them to return. I hope they make it. Sounds like that hawk has taken up residence - that won't help either. I've got my fingers crossed for you and them.

Hugh


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Very windy today. At least 30 MPH winds and rain. I had these birds for at least 4 weeks out. But no sign of them today. This Hawk is a resident . All the trees are bare now. But this 1 tree a pine that stays green 2 blocks over. Thats where it comes from. So it could hide there real good.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> just a tip for next time ,when you release your birds from a box for the first few times it really should be from within sight of the loft ,it just helps them get the idea of what to look for once they zoom out the little release door.. then you can start taking them further on down the road .. hope more of them do come back for you ,winter is a very bad time of year to train youngbirds though with all the hawks around .


guess he did not see my post when I said "in the yard" for the first few times......


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Winter in NY I'm not sure when your race season starts, ours is the end of May. My birds don't even get let out till next month. Why would you want to train the birds in winter?
Dave


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I have let them go before by hand. Like I will grab 2 and let them go from across the street. Then a different 2 another day. A couple of times. No problem. The HAWK did a job on them this time.

Whats funny. Theres a house exactly 7 blocks away. Who ever lives there feeds ferals and they sleep there. No loft nothing. There has to be at least 500 ferals. Nice house. But the birds are all around. On antennas soffits everywhere. 

Why doesnt the Hawk go there? A meal a day for a year and a half.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> Winter in NY I'm not sure when your race season starts, ours is the end of May. My birds don't even get let out till next month. Why would you want to train the birds in winter?
> Dave


There some people that let there birds out all year. Train in the rain and the wind. Make them stronger. Some people lock them up till hawk season finishes. Everybody has a different techniqe


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well you started with how many? and now you have only 3 or 4, was it worth it?
Dave


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Hope you get them back today. You may want to take a walk over to that house with the ferals some of yours may be there. Just a thought.
Kurps


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I have no flyers right now. I am upset. I have 30 breeders. To start my flock. Then I will reduce on the breeders when I have enough youngsters. Maybe go down to 10 pairs. But I will do it all over again. Its part of the game. How many people have lost birds on races and training. Like I said its all part of the game.

As for going over there to the feral house. I would like to. They all hang out in the back of the house. Im not exaggerating there gotta be like 500 ferals. I wish I could take a pic.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

They may be living in a garage or barn over there,another thought. Ask the owners if you could take a look?
Kurps


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

M Kurps said:


> They may be living in a garage or barn over there,another thought. Ask the owners if you could take a look?
> Kurps


I too think if you crated them and let them go in your yard in sight of your loft for the first few times as spirit wings suggested you might still have those birds ... letting them go by hand and letting them go from crates is a totally different story as it totally throws them off for the first couple of times .. I once along time ago let my youngbirds go from a crate up the street and every single bird got lost but then I would never try to train any of my birds during the months of december thru march cuz the hawk infestation is horrible here ... patience is the key to raising buirds that can go the distance but thats just how it has worked for me


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## andove (Dec 7, 2009)

For me i will let the young bird out when they about 4 week old and will fly around about 6 week old,and if they already can trapping but lazy to fly i will bring them about 1 km in hungry condition and if they not in immediately i will feed the late in bird only less, so the next day they will learn that they must in to the loft immediately when they arrive.
Tossing young bird without senior bird will be more risk


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I have spoken to a couple of breeders from this area where im at. They always ask "how many birds you have?" Because there will be alot of lost's to Hawks. So im thinking where im at its gonna be unavoidable. Especially when I have a resident hawk 2 blocks over.


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## andove (Dec 7, 2009)

I was face the same problem too, peregrine falcon,but now i know that the falcon come when the day not so sunny,and lately my bird was get used to eat, rarely catch by them these days, but i dont know for there cause i live in tropical country


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

JRNY said:


> I have spoken to a couple of breeders from this area where im at. They always ask "how many birds you have?" Because there will be alot of lost's to Hawks. So im thinking where im at its gonna be unavoidable. Especially when I have a resident hawk 2 blocks over.


I think now you are just fighting any advice that is being offered to you .. I know of no one that is trying to train youngbirds at this time of year ,most people start breeding their birds at the end of december so their young birds are just old enuf to be banded in early january which means they wont be ready for training til at least early feburary but are held in so that the hawk season doesnt kill or scare off most of their first rounds .. other wise whats the point ??


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## andove (Dec 7, 2009)

Yes i agree cause when you have young pigeon in hawk season you will make then scare to fly but if they already strong enough they will can handle it


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Racing homers want to race, flying around the house or take them down the road they want to race. In the winter they go so fast that thier vision gets blurry and they couldn't see a hawk till its to late. Feral birds just fly no hury, plus they are hawk wise, our young homers don't stand a chance. And NO this is not a game that we play. Our birds safety is in our hands, I personaly would not want to loose my old bird team to a game.
Dave


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I take everybodies advice. And sometimes people make mistakes. Or sometimes the person didnt fully explain themselves. Which could be an error on me. The spot I let them out. They must have flown over I dont how many times. So I beleived they where familiar with. But my opinion the hawk spooked the hell out of them. which has happen in the past and they came back 2 hours later. but not this time.Will Ido it again? Who knows. This is costing me money and time. Like everybody else. Some more then others. But I wont give up.

And Crazy Pete no offense I guess you never heard the phrase "Its part of the game" 
E.g . guy robs a bank for a living. Finally gets caught. He's upset. But its all part of the game.
I know its a serious sport and hobby to others. Just like it is for me. I admit I am new to just having racing homers. But I had homers with my mixed stock back in the late 70's and 80's. I had over 150 birds . So I have a little idea about pigeons.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Sure I've heard the phrase, but I have an old bird team and you wish you did. Have a nice day, and I feel sorry for your birds.
Dave


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Of course I want an old bird team. Not gonna lie. I want all my birds I lost.I will get my team .Dont want you to be upset cause im not. Just a big misunderstanding. My apoligies if I offended you or anybody else.


Here's a nice article. State right next to me. Look how many he lost to hawks.

http://ifpigeon.com/IF/skytalk_2010/rookie.pdf


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

JRNY said:


> I take everybodies advice. And sometimes people make mistakes. Or sometimes the person didnt fully explain themselves. Which could be an error on me. The spot I let them out. They must have flown over I dont how many times. So I beleived they where familiar with. But my opinion the hawk spooked the hell out of them. which has happen in the past and they came back 2 hours later. but not this time.Will Ido it again? Who knows. This is costing me money and time. Like everybody else. Some more then others. But I wont give up.
> 
> And Crazy Pete no offense I guess you never heard the phrase "Its part of the game"
> E.g . guy robs a bank for a living. Finally gets caught. He's upset. But its all part of the game.
> I know its a serious sport and hobby to others. Just like it is for me. I admit I am new to just having racing homers. But I had homers with my mixed stock back in the late 70's and 80's. I had over 150 birds . So I have a little idea about pigeons.


just so you know flying birds out of a crate throws the birds off totally when done for the first time .. thats why there is the period of time to orient themselves when you get to to the release points (the letting them sit in the crate for that 15 to 20 minutes or so so they can orient themselves before you let them out of the box).. and also flying your birds for only 4 weeks is nothing when it comes to starting to take them out beyond your yard .. the point that you didnt listen to was the part where you should let them out of the crate in your yard in sight of the coop for the first few times so they can get used to the idea of a crate release .. losing birds isnt part of the game especially from such a close distance and hawks really shouldnt have that much effect on them if they are let out so close to your coop it was you letting them out down the block for the first time at such a young age and thats why crazy pete was so angry cuz you dint really give them a chance ... Crazy pete you rock my freind your advice is spot on


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It seems to me that M Kurps and crazy pete gave you some excellent information that you really gave no credit to and I will tell you one thing--when I get into racing which might be next year with a few birds the two people that I will ask a lot of questions to and I don't even know them will be Crazy Pete and M. Kurps...You must be young, impatient , and eager to prove yourself in the world and don't take this personal because we have all been there and with my younger ego I was on the first rung-just slow down--think of precious life you care about and really love your birds--pretend they are your children and your children you would not have left out in the dead of winter with a hawk around waiting for the winter feast---they did not have a chance.....
Shame on you----But shame on you with love ---because we all make mistakes and we all have been there...Spring is a new season....Love C.hert


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

My first yr of flying was in the 60's we didn't have the hawk problem we have today. Now we have to be so much more carefull, loft flying and training os so hazardous that you can loose a whole team in no time. I don't think there is one person in our club that lets the birds out in winter. If your birds come back Please think twice about doing any more training till spring.
Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I never read all the posts, but sounds like they are fed to much. No matter what age, they will not fly unless they are on the lean side.. Dave


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Luckt: The posting is not talking about that you better read the posts from day 1 to get an idea of what is being discussed...happy reading....c.hert


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

DUH! all i have to do is read YOUR question. IF they are not flying, they are over fed, OR sick. WHAT have i missed? Dave


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## rririe (Jan 21, 2010)

I wish you the best with your birds. I'm just getting back into the hobby and all I hear about are HAWKS! I searched the local area. I searched the internet and found the birds I wanted there. I went to the Post Office to pick up my birds, and the guy there, is a breeder of rollers that I wanted. Sad part is he can't fly his birds, due to hawks. He said if he lets up 30 birds, three won't make it back. I'm sure this is old news to the forum, but since DDT was banned all birds, whether backyard varieties or hawks are on the rise. I'm a backyard wildbird feeder, and watcher from way back, and birds are making a huge comeback since the ban on DDT. Birds that once were rare, or not seen often are some of the biggest back yard visitors. Hawks I guess are the same way. They need to eat just like any other bird. Unfortunately they like to feed on our lofted pigeons. Many folks here have stated the better times to fly your birds, but I guess variations in location play their parts. In the next two weeks I'm going to let my new kit fly, and I'll cry if one or two doesn't make it back. Hawks are real, they need to eat, and there is nothing we can do to interupt there existence. Fly Bravely


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

First of all I am not young maybe a little impatient. Also not trying to prove anything to anybody. When I had birds out here I always had them out all year long. Theres alot of pigeon racers that do the same. I always see pigeons training over my house. Everybody has a different method. We are here in this forum to learn. Because if we new everything we wouldnt be here.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Good luck with your flying c.hert


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Like LuckyT said maybe they where over feed. I'm thinking that way. Even though I feed once a day. But maybe to much.

Thanks c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You want to see a unpleasent visitor JRNY go to bird watching forum and take a look at that scarey thing--now I know how our dear pigeons feel and to tell you the truth when I have to train my few racers maybe next year I am going to be afraid to leave them free to face something like that????? c.hert


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Hawks are part of the Reality of keeping free flying Pigeons. If you manage your birds right and learn the Hawks behavior, you will learn to too live at Peace with them..... Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

If you want to see a Pic. of "that scary thing" I will repost the Coopers In my Yard, 50 ft. from the loft! Dave


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Why you do that to me you know I am a sensitive person because I said so---That Cooper is eating---did you see its big belly when it looks like it is standing--they fly through here and I have seen leftovers but I have never seened the bird-but other people have and to tell you the truth I hope I never see one.. I saw this big black bird--a overgrown crow kind of fly through the tree limbs like a opsicle course (spell) up and down and all around after a small bird with intent to eat I"m sure but the small bird flew to some electrical wires and when the big bird hit it hit the wires and the shock threw him a loop---finally recuperated in the air and left---then the small birds mate who took off came back and sat beside its mate...so I guess they have their ways...c.hert


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

But it is the way it is supposed to be! just because you are sensitive, does not change the facts of what is real.... Dave


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea Luckt but people have a way of fooling with the real and make it unreal and that completely changes the reality of it all--so who is to say what really real....c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The reality of it I guess would be whats real to you is real and whats real to me is real and thats the finality of it all...c.hert


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Just wondering if any birds returned JRNY. The reason why I sad to check by the ferals for your birds is so you my find some answers to your problem, if you find out where they are going,every piece of the puzzle helps.
Kurps


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

M Kurps said:


> Just wondering if any birds returned JRNY. The reason why I sad to check by the ferals for your birds is so you my find some answers to your problem, if you find out where they are going,every piece of the puzzle helps.
> Kurps


Nah none of the birds came back. But the birds had gone the opposite direction. The last time I saw them. I just wonder why the resident hawk dont go over there. Who knows


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