# The long road to tame friendly doves?



## KrysKritters

I had a white dove a few years ago. He was sweet and affectionate. 

Recently (missing owning a dove) I purchased 2 ringnecks from George Schutt. They are beautiful. Unfortunately they are also terrified of me. 

The female has calmed down a TINY bit, meaning I can touch her with 1 finger before she runs away... the male hates me. 

I have them in a huge (by dove standards) cage. (When researching the cages recommended just seemed so small.) Anyone have any suggestions?? Should I hold them cupped in my hand until they calm down a little each day??? I don't wanna keep chasing them around the cage trying to touch them... that seems kinda counter-productive. I have been talking to them at the cage door with my hand still inside the cage for weeks and it hasn't seemed to help anything... 
I would love to take them out but if they won't come near me, I am afraid getting them back into the cage would be stressful on them.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> I had a white dove a few years ago. He was sweet and affectionate.
> 
> Recently (missing owning a dove) I purchased 2 ringnecks from George Schutt. They are beautiful. Unfortunately they are also terrified of me.
> 
> The female has calmed down a TINY bit, meaning I can touch her with 1 finger before she runs away... the male hates me.
> 
> I have them in a huge (by dove standards) cage. (When researching the cages recommended just seemed so small.) Anyone have any suggestions?? Should I hold them cupped in my hand until they calm down a little each day??? I don't wanna keep chasing them around the cage trying to touch them... that seems kinda counter-productive. I have been talking to them at the cage door with my hand still inside the cage for weeks and it hasn't seemed to help anything...
> I would love to take them out but if they won't come near me, I am afraid getting them back into the cage would be stressful on them.


Put your hand flat on the bottom of the cage with their seed mix in it and don't move, don't look at them. (Do this when you've pulled the bowl out to clean/refill in the morning so they're hungry and so your hand is the only bowl for a few minutes.) After some time they will probably start eating from your hand.

Please do not "chase" them around the cage to pet them. This is making them think more of you as a predator. 

Please see my response to your other post for more.


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## KrysKritters

Thank you for your suggestions. I will give them a try...

I realize now that my first dove was so tame mainly bc he was a he and a single bird... he was also raised inside and tamed when young.

I have read these 2 will be harder bc they are a pair and since George raises them in outdoor aviaries. (less human contact outside) I work and go to school online (from home) and they are only about 3 feet away from my computer so I talk to them all day long...

Regardless, they are here to stay but I do hope I can at least handle them so I can safely allow them some free fly time. 

I will try your feeding method. ANy other advice is greatly appreciated as well! 

I have not seen anyone discuss breeding/eggs that much... they have laid several eggs but the 1st cracked, and then shortly after laid a 2 & 3 that were "soft shelled" and "squished". I began giving them oyster shell grit and they took a break so far and haven't laid any yet... Geoerge said they would not lay eggs till spring but I am assuming that is because he uses outdoor aviaries while I have them indoors.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Thank you for your suggestions. I will give them a try...
> 
> I realize now that my first dove was so tame mainly bc he was a he and a single bird... he was also raised inside and tamed when young.
> 
> I have read these 2 will be harder bc they are a pair and since George raises them in outdoor aviaries. (less human contact outside) I work and go to school online (from home) and they are only about 3 feet away from my computer so I talk to them all day long...
> 
> Regardless, they are here to stay but I do hope I can at least handle them so I can safely allow them some free fly time.
> 
> I will try your feeding method. ANy other advice is greatly appreciated as well!
> 
> I have not seen anyone discuss breeding/eggs that much... they have laid several eggs but the 1st cracked, and then shortly after laid a 2 & 3 that were "soft shelled" and "squished". I began giving them oyster shell grit and they took a break so far and haven't laid any yet... Geoerge said they would not lay eggs till spring but I am assuming that is because he uses outdoor aviaries while I have them indoors.


Do you have room for more birds? I recommend getting some fake eggs asap, because they can lay every month and you don't need 24 more birds. (And if you just take the eggs, the hen will lay again too soon and deplete her calcium levels too much.) 

What food and what grit are they getting? Soft-shelled eggs etc are a sign of poor nutrition. I highly reccomend Kaytee Supreme Daily Dove mix and Kaytee Hi-Cal Grit.

Do you know how to pick up a dove in a way that is most comfy for them? 
(B/c I know you're going to need to do toenails etc before they're super tame.)
http://www.wikihow.com/Hold-a-Pigeon
http://www.dreamstime.com/how-to-hold-a-pigeon-in-your-hand-thumb16609422.jpg
This way, your hands don't keep them from being able to expand their chest and breathe. Some people do this with just one hand, pinning the wings with their fingertips. My hands are too small for this and I cup my hand around with the legs between my fingers and then put my other hand gently over the back. 

You might be able to get away with leaving the cage door open while you work (if you work in a room that doesn't have an outside door or free-roaming cats etc.) Then just shut the cage on them at bedtime or when you need to go out. They won't be traumatized forever if you have to catch them once in a while for this purpose so long as you're careful. If they are hard to catch, catch them in the dark.


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## KrysKritters

I planned on ordering wooden eggs very soon. I just wasn't sure what size to get??? Originally I was told if I removed the nest they wouldn't lay but she laid on the cage floor so I learned that is a myth!
I thought they wouldn't lay more if they already had eggs or babies???

I have them on a small seed pellet diet... I know the soft shell egg was from poor nutrition, which is why I started to offer the grit 24/7 (originally I only put it in the cage once a week.) That is the grit I have them on already. I now notice that they are eating from the grit almost daily... 
I didn't know there was an actual dove mix. Thank you. I will find it online an order that today!

I do know the correct way to hold them from when I had my 1st dove... he was very patient while I learned the right way to do it. 

I didn't think about letting them out while I am working in here... I will have to start trying that. 

I thank you for all the info and help!


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> I planned on ordering wooden eggs very soon. I just wasn't sure what size to get??? Originally I was told if I removed the nest they wouldn't lay but she laid on the cage floor so I learned that is a myth!
> I thought they wouldn't lay more if they already had eggs or babies???
> 
> I have them on a small seed pellet diet... I know the soft shell egg was from poor nutrition, which is why I started to offer the grit 24/7 (originally I only put it in the cage once a week.) That is the grit I have them on already. I now notice that they are eating from the grit almost daily...
> I didn't know there was an actual dove mix. Thank you. I will find it online an order that today!
> 
> I do know the correct way to hold them from when I had my 1st dove... he was very patient while I learned the right way to do it.
> 
> I didn't think about letting them out while I am working in here... I will have to start trying that.
> 
> I thank you for all the info and help!


Once she decides her eggs are bad or the babies are weaning she will lay new eggs. I put wooden ones in right when she lays, and then I leave it in for 13-16 days. On day 14, I remove it and clean the nest bowl and put the bowl back. (13-14 days is the natural length of incubation. So this is an ok amount of time for her to keep the eggs. If you wait much longer, she may keep sitting, but there is a possibility that she'll hide some real eggs from you. (This is how I wound up with oops babies in May.) 
Taking the nest away has only worked for us with parrots. Softbills like to breed too much to be able to stop them. (I have a cock who loves nothing more than he loves sitting on "eggs." He doesn't really enjoy them when they hatch, but he's very proud of his sitting.) 

Foster and Smith's has the dove food. It comes in a 5lb package. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18947&cmpid=04csesz&ref=3474&subref=AA

No problem.  I have a couple of birds I'm still taming. You should try diamond doves--they're even more of a challenge because they're super nervous. Anyways, it takes a lot of time with certain personalities so be patient. (And remember certain personalities like my Edmund are "touch me nots" and won't want physical contact even if they love you. Other doves are "cuddlers" so hopefully one of your pair is.  )


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## KrysKritters

No offense but I think I will stick with the ringnecks.  I hope that at least one of mine is cuddly... either that or maybe they will give me a baby that is cuddly. ♥

As far as food, they can swallow that large whiteish round ball thingy? My other dove was a fed a mix similar to this and he couldn't (or wouldn't)...

Also, what do you have in thier cage? Mine feels so empty.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> No offense but I think I will stick with the ringnecks.  I hope that at least one of mine is cuddly... either that or maybe they will give me a baby that is cuddly. ♥
> 
> As far as food, they can swallow that large whiteish round ball thingy? My other dove was a fed a mix similar to this and he couldn't (or wouldn't)...
> 
> Also, what do you have in thier cage? Mine feels so empty.


They can eat the peas--some just don't like them. I have a hen who loves them, and a cock who hates them. The hen is much smaller than the cock lol. 

They have some fat perches and a twiggy one (fat ones for sleeping on, twiggy one for foot exercise,) a German Shepherd bowl for food, a bird bowl on the door for grit, a bird bowl w/ mini perch on the wall for water, and a small plastic no-tip dog bowl in the corner for a nest. There was a bell--but Ed was scared of it. They used to have a twine ball with a bell in it, and they sort of liked it, but it got ruined in some water. They have a mini kong (like chihuahua size)--but do be warned some doves fear the color red b/c they think it's assoc with things covered in blood. 

The bottom cage is a ringneck pair, the top cage is the diamond doves:









The twiggy perch:


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## KrysKritters

Ok, so now I don't feel so bad... here is my dove's cage... they have food and water bowls attached to sides and a small grit bowl... and yes, that is a cookie tin for anest. It is the only thing I could find that they use and don't tip over. 


and just cause they are cute... here they are..


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## Libis

Are you absolutely positive that there is no way that cookie tin can be tipped? I tipped container can be a death sentence for a bird.









Oh, and here's a random page of tons of tips and info on doves:
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/tips.htm


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## Libis

BTW, that is the exact cage I was thinking about buying them when I found the one they have for $30. (Used cage that the petstore didn't want any more.)

Oh, and natural perches would be much better for their feet muscles.


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## KrysKritters

The cookie tin might be able to tip over but I have not seem it even come close... the last nest they tipped so I tried this cause it was similar shape and they seem to really like the size... what makes a tipped nest a death sentence? cause it could tracp them under it? or the fall itself? (trying to understand) I can probley attach it to the side of the cage to make it 100% tip proof if needed.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> The cookie tin might be able to tip over but I have not seem it even come close... the last nest they tipped so I tried this cause it was similar shape and they seem to really like the size... what makes a tipped nest a death sentence? cause it could tracp them under it? or the fall itself? (trying to understand) I can probley attach it to the side of the cage to make it 100% tip proof if needed.


Can you attach it to the side without there being any sharp bits? (I once lost a bird to bleeding.) 

It could tip over and pin them and that could kill them. (smashing, dehydration, overheating from a sunbeam, pretty much anything in excess can kill a bird.) If you look closely at the pic I posted--there is a dove trapped inside the container.

I go by the rule that if I can tip it by pushing on the rim with my fingers, they can also tip it. Dove pairs can get pretty "rowdy" chasing eachother around playfully especially in the morning. 

I use heavy ceramic bowls, ones attached to the wall, or ones like in the link below so that I am absolutely sure they are safe:

http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPETS-3764498r200.jpg

Thinking of birdy safety--fumes are very dangerous to them and can also kill. Be sure there are no air fresheners, scented candles, incense, overheated teflon pans, glue or strong paint/primer fumes, or other such scented/fumy things in your house. 

http://www.berkscountybirdclub.com/index_files/Scented Candles.pdf


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Foster and Smith's has the dove food. It comes in a 5lb package. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18947&cmpid=04csesz&ref=3474&subref=AA


You can possibly save on shipping by checking or calling your local Petco Store to see if the carry Kaytee dove food...
http://www.petco.com/product/5460/Kaytee-Supreme-Daily-Blend-Dove-Food.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

Well changing the container will have to wait... They laid an egg and are very protective of me going near it. I will just have to keep a very good eye on it... helps that I am home all day... I usually get up in the middle of the night to check on things too...

I know about the scents, I have them in my "glider room" (I breed exotics. Sugargliders.) They have similar very small sensitive respiratory systems so the room is clean. 

Hopefully now this egg is fertile... cross our fingers for a "New Year's Dove"


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Well changing the container will have to wait... They laid an egg and are very protective of me going near it. I will just have to keep a very good eye on it... helps that I am home all day... I usually get up in the middle of the night to check on things too...
> 
> I know about the scents, I have them in my "glider room" (I breed exotics. Sugargliders.) They have similar very small sensitive respiratory systems so the room is clean.
> 
> Hopefully now this egg is fertile... cross our fingers for a "New Year's Dove"


Just pop your hand under the bird gently and you can easily take and replace the egg--just be prepared for wingslaps and pecks. 

Otherwise, if you're going to allow them to have babies, you will need to put pineneedles and hay in the bottom of the nesting container to avoid splay-legged babies, so either way you're going to have to get in there. 

Also, if you let them have babies, in less than 1 month you will need an additional cage.


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## KrysKritters

I am going to let them have this one... I keep giving them pin needles and daddy is bringing them to momma and shoving them under her. lol

I already have a cage ready for baby once weaned.  Once they have this one, it'll be wooden eggs from now on, unless we have an opps. lol but it's not the end of the world.

Maybe a silly question, I have read that I need to remove the baby and I have a cage to do so but I don't understand WHY. (I'm a big WHY person...) why do I need to remove baby if in lofts multiple doves can live together?


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## spirit wings

If you ever want to change the nest bowl..what I did was get a round basket with a handle like an easter basket and zip tie it to the upper corner of the cage..my hens loved it and liked being higher up and did not have to worry about it tipping or swinging as I put it in the corner and zip tied it well to stay secure.. just an idea. oh and I was not letting them raise babies in there..so to clean it all I had to do was change out the paper towel I put in the bottom of it.. if your breeding then you would want something you take take out to clean it easier of course.


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## Doves1111

KrysKritters said:


> I am going to let them have this one... I keep giving them pin needles and daddy is bringing them to momma and shoving them under her. lol
> 
> I already have a cage ready for baby once weaned.  Once they have this one, it'll be wooden eggs from now on, unless we have an opps. lol but it's not the end of the world.
> 
> Maybe a silly question, I have read that I need to remove the baby and I have a cage to do so but I don't understand WHY. (I'm a big WHY person...) why do I need to remove baby if in lofts multiple doves can live together?


Your doves are under a year old...that is probably why George said no eggs until Spring. Young doves sometimes don't make good parents. They will sometimes abandon their eggs or their young. 

The parents will pick on the baby when they are ready to lay again. In a cage...the baby has no where to go and may get cornered...and hurt really bad. Doves are very territorial. Even in a loft they still fight...but you can keep multiple doves in a loft because they have enough room to get away from each other. 

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

Thank you for explaining it to me.  

I will be sure to watch them... so far the momma seems very attentive to the egg. She has been consistenly sitting on it, only getting up for a few minutes to eat/drink. I think daddy and her trade on who warms the egg... I'm still having a hard time telling them apart.


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## Doves1111

The male usually takes the day shift...anywhere between 9 - 4 pm...the female takes the night shift. 

Dawn


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## Libis

Make sure they have a hell of a lot of pine needles and really really good nutrition.

Also, in 24 hours or so there will be a second egg. I recommend pulling it as these doves are young and might be bad parents even to just one bird.

You're also going to want to have Kaytee Exact baby food on hand.


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## KrysKritters

I wasn't sure if I could pull the second egg... of course How will I know which one is the second egg? She has been sitting on this one for a few days now... (although I didn't bother her yesterday they could have snuck another egg in.)

Should I just keep handing them piles of pine needles as needed?

Thanks, I didn't think about that but your right. I will get the baby food and try to look online ot learn how to hand feed now so I am prepared... got any good links? I assume If I need to handfeed I might need to remove baby too so I would need a "baby box" to keep it warm too.... (Running off to make my baby list)


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> I wasn't sure if I could pull the second egg... of course How will I know which one is the second egg? She has been sitting on this one for a few days now... (although I didn't bother her yesterday they could have snuck another egg in.)
> 
> Should I just keep handing them piles of pine needles as needed?
> 
> Thanks, I didn't think about that but your right. I will get the baby food and try to look online ot learn how to hand feed now so I am prepared... got any good links? I assume If I need to handfeed I might need to remove baby too so I would need a "baby box" to keep it warm too.... (Running off to make my baby list)


Yeah, chances are there is already a second egg. You can and should check by putting your hand under the hen and lifting her off the nest. It is imperative that you make sure that the pine needles effectively cover the bottom of the nest rather than just surrounding the eggs (your birds are very young and likely won't be able to make a fantastic nest--not to mention most doves suck at nest building.) Otherwise, you could still have messed up babies. 

Thinking of that--they started sitting too early--they aren't supposed to sit until they lay the second egg. Thus one of your babies is going to be considerably smaller and weaker because of it's younger development. I recommend handraising the larger baby (it's easier to work with bigger babies) after it has gotten 1 or 2 days of the parents' crop milk. (They need the crop milk for immunity etc.) 

Also, did you check into those nutrition issues for the adults or get that kaytee dove food you said you might order? Raising babies requires excellent nutrition. 

As far as an incubator goes, start them at about 99 F, then as they feather out slowly slowly bring the temperature closer and closer to room temp so that they can acclimate to being out of the incubator.


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## KrysKritters

Important question... I heard many years ago that bird eggs had to stay in the same position because of an air bubble of something. If they rolled over the chick in the egg would suffocate. Is this true? Do I have to be 100% sure the egg remains in the same position when I move it?


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## KrysKritters

I will make them mad today and be sure there are plenty of pine needles under the egg.

I did order the better food... my local petsmart did not have any.  They also now have 24/7 access to the hi clacium grit. 

So you think once the 2nd egg hatches I should remove the older chic and hand raise it?

I don't have an actual incubator... I do have materials for a homemade version though. I breed sugargliders and keep supplies on hand in case a glider rejects one of thier joeys... I have a plastic container, heat pad, etc... I will love up online to see if it needs modifications for the dove... also guess I need a thermometer. 
Would a heat lamp be better than the heat pad?


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Important question... I heard many years ago that bird eggs had to stay in the same position because of an air bubble of something. If they rolled over the chick in the egg would suffocate. Is this true? Do I have to be 100% sure the egg remains in the same position when I move it?


Allow the parents to rotate the egg as they feel necessary. This is crucial to proper development. 

Do be careful picking up the eggs when you put the pine needles under and do not keep them out from under the parents for long. Also be warned that dove eggs are extremely delicate. Remove all rings from your fingers etc before handling and be prepared to sheild the eggs when the parents try to attack your hands. 

Yes, it could become necessary to hand-raise the elder chick yourself. Otherwise, the younger may be too small to compete for food. With how young these parents are, you might have to handraise both (this is why George told you there should be no eggs/babies till spring...) Do give the parents as chance to raise both for a little bit just in case they do ok like mine did (mine were, however, older and I believe the cock was experienced.) In the incubator, baby will still need pine needles to grip with it's feet so it doesn't get splayed legs (legs that grow wrong and then cause the bird to be severely disabled.)

You are going to need to find an avian vet with a good reputation asap. You may soon need their help/advice.


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## spirit wings

just to let you know..your hen will lay many eggs over her lifetime and of course you will not want all of them to hatch..so you will have to use fake eggs.. you just take the real ones out and replace with fakes she can sit..when they do not hatch they leave them and start over again. you can do this now and perhaps wait till they mature to let them hatch real ones.. I know it is easy to get caught up in the thought of babies in eggs but really right now they are not more than the ones you eat for breakfast, and you will get used to replacing their eggs as you will have to do this at some point if not right now.. I say this because IMO letting birds that young hatch eggs just because you want it too is not good planning.. but if you do decided to go on with it you are doing it right by being prepaird.


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## KrysKritters

I hadn't planned on letting them have babies this young. George said not to expect eggs till spring so I thought I would have more time to become prepared... which as I understand it now is probabley bc I house them indoors... outside they naturally would have waiting for spring.

I have ordered wooden eggs and they are on thier way.... But if I remove the eggs now, she would just lay more right? 

I admit, I made a few mistakes but I am trying to make the best of it as a learning experience and prepare myself for any potential outcomes. I appreciate all the advice you all have given me. It is always so much easier to learn from the experience of others. 

I already have a good vet who is expereinced with all species of birds. I even have a good relationship with him because he sees my gliders as well. 

I have been researching online day and night but sometimes websites are vague with details making it difficult to avoid mistakes. I am glad I have found you nice people here to help me with your advice, (even if you don't necessarily agree with my choices and admitted mistakes.)


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## spirit wings

KrysKritters said:


> I hadn't planned on letting them have babies this young. George said not to expect eggs till spring so I thought I would have more time to become prepared... which as I understand it now is probabley bc I house them indoors... outside they naturally would have waiting for spring.
> 
> I have ordered wooden eggs and they are on thier way.... But if I remove the eggs now, she would just lay more right?
> 
> I admit, I made a few mistakes but I am trying to make the best of it as a learning experience and prepare myself for any potential outcomes. I appreciate all the advice you all have given me. It is always so much easier to learn from the experience of others.
> 
> I already have a good vet who is expereinced with all species of birds. I even have a good relationship with him because he sees my gliders as well.
> 
> I have been researching online day and night but sometimes websites are vague with details making it difficult to avoid mistakes. I am glad I have found you nice people here to help me with your advice, (even if you don't necessarily agree with my choices and admitted mistakes.)


I find doves are not too picky about what they sit on.. two marbles work or two smooth stones..she will lay many eggs, when you want them to hatch them is up to you. letting them do it their first time laying is not really a good time IMO.


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## KrysKritters

I will try to find something comparable and see what happens. This is their 3rd clutch... btw. They laid a total of 3 eggs and then took a break for a few weeks before finally laying this 4th and 5th one...


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## Doves1111

spirit wings said:


> I find doves are not too picky about what they sit on.. two marbles work or two smooth stones..she will lay many eggs, when you want them to hatch them is up to you. letting them do it their first time laying is not really a good time IMO.


I agree...she will lay many more eggs. I would take these eggs away and wait until Spring to let them raise any babies. Go outside and find some rocks that are about the same size as the eggs. Waiting until Spring will give the 2 young doves more time to mature and be good parents...and it will give you more time to learn about raising and breeding Ringneck Doves...

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> I agree...she will lay many more eggs. I would take these eggs away and wait until Spring to let them raise any babies. Go outside and find some rocks that are about the same size as the eggs. Waiting until Spring will give the 2 young doves more time to mature and be good parents...and it will give you more time to learn about raising and breeding Ringneck Doves...
> 
> Dawn


Before you put the rocks under her, warm them in your pocket so they're more believable.


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## Lefty07

*Taming Doves with food*

KrysKritters,

I read your original post. Sorry to hear your doves are skittish. My doves are totally tame and I can release them in my 18 X 20 foot sunroom without any problems. They normally fly right over to me and sit on my arms - they eat out of my hands - and then often perch on me afterwards - sometimes even take a nap. And in the evening, they go back in their cages all by themselves.

Your doves sound like they were raised in an aviary and not around people. They are probably still tameable though. Just give them time - and no need to clip their wings! Wing-clipping is a bad idea for doves because they cannot climb so will be totally defenseless if they can't fly. Also, making them flightless just scares them and removes their confidence. You want them to bw confident and like you. But I would avoid handling them too much - as in, holding them in your hands - few birds like that and that can undo your efforts to tame them. Let them perch on you but you don't need to pet them - that's a mammal thing not a bird thing! Mine never seem to need nail-clipping - maybe because I let them out a lot.

I recommend tempting yours with food. My doves *love* hemp seeds. They get excited when they hear me opening the bag. You can get hemp seeds on eBay or from some of the on-line bird supply places. Hemp seed is essentially marijuana seed but it is legal as a bird food (they zap it so it won't germinate). Another favorite food are "baby peas". These are green peas but smaller than average. I get the frozen kind that comes in a "steaming bag". My doves love them and eat them out of my hands.

I'd offer your doves some hemp and green peas in a dish first. Let them discover that they like them before you try to hand feed them. Once they like them, try very gently putting your open hand (with hemp or peas) in front of them. Once they start eating from your hand. you are getting there. Eventually, they may step on your hand to get the hemp or peas. Mine fly over to me and land on me, when I have hemp seed or peas in my open hand.

If your doves breed, you can work with the babies and get them tame at least, even if the parents are stubborn. But hopefully, your pair are not related. You would not want to breed a brother-sister pair from the same parents of course.

For every day food, a good parakeet mix with seeds and pellets works well for me, though I also mix in some dove mix sometimes. Mine don't like pellets that much so I let them have a seed mix with some pellets in it. They do eat some of them. They also like fresh egg food on occasion or when breeding - but don't offer it too much because the extra protein seems to _trigger _breeding behavior, which you might not want to do. But when mine have babies, I give them egg food (mashed hard-boiled egg) every day and they snarf it up.

As someone said in this string, if you have any babies, be prepared to get them out of there when they are fully grown. At some point, the male will want them out of there, especially if they are starting a new clutch of eggs. So once the male is acting aggressively towards the babies, chasing them around (and they are full grown, eating on their own), that's when you get them out of there. And that is also when you can start bonding with some tamer babies!

Here are some photos of my doves (Tricksy is bathing and Pecker is eating hemp seeds - I have 2 other doves not shown, Stimpy and Lefty):









Tricksy used to belong to a magician.









Pecker loves fresh air and his free flight time in my sunroom.









Here is Pecker - father of 7 baby doves.


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## Libis

Another well-loved snack that is a bit easier to get is "thistle" seed aka nyjer seed. They will gobble it up, but don't let them over-do it b/c it gives them loose stools.


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## KrysKritters

Thank you for your post... I was told they are not brother & Sister. When I purchased them from george I told him I would be breeding them and needed them to be unrelated. So I trust he did that. I know they are not tame bc they were raised in an outdoor aviary. Which is why they are not indorrs with me... 

The female will probabley be easier to tame bc I know she was hand raised a bit. Geoerge told me a snake got her parents and then finished raising her himself... she is interested in me but the male is a bit protective of her. He will try to keep me away from her. (Thankfully, he doesn't hurt... I am used to bites with teeth so a beak peck is nothing to me.)

I do plan to handle any babies to be sure they are tame.... and I have not given up on the parents... they will come around on thier time... it was just dissapointing bc my last dove was tame the day he arrived... and these 2 seem to hate me. lol


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Thank you for your post... I was told they are not brother & Sister. When I purchased them from george I told him I would be breeding them and needed them to be unrelated. So I trust he did that. I know they are not tame bc they were raised in an outdoor aviary. Which is why they are not indorrs with me...
> 
> The female will probabley be easier to tame bc I know she was hand raised a bit. Geoerge told me a snake got her parents and then finished raising her himself... she is interested in me but the male is a bit protective of her. He will try to keep me away from her. (Thankfully, he doesn't hurt... I am used to bites with teeth so a beak peck is nothing to me.)
> 
> I do plan to handle any babies to be sure they are tame.... and I have not given up on the parents... they will come around on thier time... it was just dissapointing bc my last dove was tame the day he arrived... and these 2 seem to hate me. lol


Give them time  Oh, did you ever get a chance to try letting them hang out with you out of cage while you work?


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## Lefty07

*Don't take it personally!*

KrysKritters,

Don't take it personally if your doves are afraid of you! They were raised in an aviary - but they will come around because they have 2,000 years of domestication in their backgrounds - they just don't know what to make of things yet. But for these _less than fully tame _doves, be content to just have them sit on your arm. Don't try to pet or handle them because they may never be comfortable with that and in fact, it may un-do any trust they have. But their babies will be another story. Once they have feathers, you can start taking them out and once they eat on their own, you can hand feed them. They will be the wonderful pets that you are seekling.

But for the parents, do try hand-feeding them too. Order some hemp seed on line - give them a little in a bowl at first - after they like it, offer it from your hand - that will win them over. Baby green peas may work also.

Another thing is, once they settle down, let them out - or just leave the cage door open - while you are in the room quietly doing something else: reading, watching TV, or playing on the computer. Get them used to you being there but not focusing on them. The idea is to act like you are not interested - but move slowly and talk to them gently - and whatever you do, don't chase them around - let them go back in their cage themselves if possible. If you are unsure about this, wait until they are eating out of your hand in the cage before you do this... because if you can get them to fly over to you when outside the cage, to either eat or just hang out, you will have one the battle and the rest is just repetition.

p.s. If you let your doves breed, you will probably _have_ to sell babies eventually. At that point, you may decide you want to keep your favorite tame babies (maybe 2 of the same sex so they won't try to breed) and sell your less than tame parents. The important thing is just to find them a good home. But believe me, doves will breed and breed and breed if you let them - and you can't let them breed like that forever, both for your cage space and for the health of the females, who can become egg-laying machines.


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## KrysKritters

Libis, Unfortunately I haven't yet. My "office" does not have a door, it is more like a small room off the livingroom seperated by a fish tank built into the wall... so there is just an open space there. I don't want to give them the whole livignroom just yet. I think letting them in the small office with me allows them to come into more contact with me... I am going to get a screen to "close" the doorway... holiday chaos has delayed it a bit. 

Lefty07, I don't take it personally.  I know it is not thier fault. They are just scared....
I was wondering when I can begin handling babies... I don't want to make mom & dad angry that I touched thier baby and cause them to abandon it or something... 



Lefty07 said:


> p.s. If you let your doves breed, you will probably _have_ to sell babies eventually. At that point, you may decide you want to keep your favorite tame babies (maybe 2 of the same sex so they won't try to breed) and sell your less than tame parents. The important thing is just to find them a good home. But believe me, doves will breed and breed and breed if you let them - and you can't let them breed like that forever, both for your cage space and for the health of the females, who can become egg-laying machines.


This is something I have been giving a lot of thought into... the long term plan. I think I will definately keep at least one baby... I was also thinking on building an outdoor aviary for the adults... so I'd like an opinion.... 

Should I build a "girls" side & "boys" side then keep a few babies (of each sex) so they both have companionship but not "mix" sex... this way I know they have a good home forever but can stop breeding when I chose to?


----------



## spirit wings

you do not need a boy and girl side.. doves by nature want a mate of their own and will find one even if it is the same sex sometimes(hen's mostly).. as long as you do not split pairs the boy and girl idea will be fine if the cocks are not fighting but they may, esp if they can see the hens.. it is hard to sex doves and allot times one does not know the sex except if a hen lays eggs and her mate does not..then you can guess a male female pairing.. all one has to do is discard the eggs and give fake ones for hatch control..seperating them by sex would be hard because you never know you can make a mistake and put two cocks and one hen in the same space which would be a problem.. I was given 5 doves.. they were given to me as 4 cocks and one hen.. well it turned out they were really 4 hens and one cock..the hens did not lay at that persons house for some reason and started a few months after being at my place...so I had three hens together and they did great all laying their eggs in the same basket.. and I kept the pair in a seperate cage and they did their thing.. cock birds do not do well all together as they are territorial..so they should be paired off and just replace the eggs with fake ones.. mother nature dictates they have a mate and do best with one.


oh just to add putting young not mature doves together is fine..but they will mature and want a mate at some point, that is when things can get troublesome in a mixed sex cage... if one has a large flight aviary they usually can work it out better as the ones fighting can fly up and away from the aggressor.


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## KrysKritters

Thanks that clears it up... didn't think about that (just removing the eggs, duh) holiday chaos has really fried my brain. lol

That is why I had asked though bc I thought doves "mated/bonded" for life. It seemed cruel to seperate... I'd rather keep them together.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Thanks that clears it up... didn't think about that (just removing the eggs, duh) holiday chaos has really fried my brain. lol
> 
> That is why I had asked though bc I thought doves "mated/bonded" for life. It seemed cruel to seperate... I'd rather keep them together.


Most of the time, they do mate for life--though it can be very much a similar loyalty to that between human mates. Some will never leave their love and might die if their mate does. Others are constant cheaters. I prefer not to separate birds who have close relationships.

I have a little hen who cries and cries if I have to take her mate out of the room. If I'm trimming his nails in front of the cage, she'll bash against the bars to try to "come to his rescue."

also--on hen/hen relationships--I have four diamond dove hens who all live together and cuddle and preen and play and seem to have a great time overall.


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## Lefty07

*Answers*

KrysKritters,

Once the baby doves have feathers, you can probably take them out for short times and the parents won't mind. And once they are out of the nest, you can take them out for longer periods. But return them to the parent's cage until you are sure they are eating on their own. It may take a few weeks, after the young are out of the nest, before you can separate them.

You can keep a bunch of non-breeding doves together in an aviary, as long as there no nesting places and none of the doves bred in there before. If you have a pair that already bred in that aviary and they will be part of this flock, you may have troubles because they may think of it as their territory.

The more the merrier in a non-breeding group situation. The problems are more likely to occur if you have a smaller number, like 2 male/female pairs or 3 doves that includes a male/female pair.


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## Libis

Lefty07 said:


> KrysKritters,
> 
> Once the baby doves have feathers, you can probably take them out for short times and the parents won't mind. And once they are out of the nest, you can take them out for longer periods. But return them to the parent's cage until you are sure they are eating on their own. It may take a few weeks, after the young are out of the nest, before you can separate them.
> 
> You can keep a bunch of non-breeding doves together in an aviary, as long as there no nesting places and none of the doves bred in there before. If you have a pair that already bred in that aviary and they will be part of this flock, you may have troubles because they may think of it as their territory.
> 
> The more the merrier in a non-breeding group situation. The problems are more likely to occur if you have a smaller number, like 2 male/female pairs or 3 doves that includes a male/female pair.


It doesn't really sound like she's got an aviary situation here, and the only doves she has have already bred.


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## KrysKritters

Currently I do not have an "aviary" I have a large cage with the pair... but in the future I am considering building an aviary to hold a larger number of birds... 
Thanks again everyone for thier advice and sharing your expeiences.


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## Lefty07

*Doves*

KrysKritter,

Good luck with your doves! They are fun to breed. You may be surprised that your pair of normal fawn Ringnecks may have genes for colors that you do not expect. My "normal" pair produced some white and pied babies in addition to the normal fawn color. This is the stage I would say you could start handling the babies (briefly) if the parents don't object. This is also the stage where I typically pull out the old poopy nesting material and replace with new - though that is optional I guess.










The babies are a lot of fun and tame up very easily. Personally, I found it somewhat heartbreaking to sell them. Some I had trained to fly to me on command and then I had to sell them because I was running out of room!










This baby is Lefty, who I kept and still have. I named him Lefty because I put his band on the left leg by accident.










In the end, I had trouble getting my original pair to *stop* breeding. Eventually, I sold off Pecker's _never-very-tame_ mate along with the last 2 babies. I figured she was better off not being pressured to breed all the time - and she was from an aviary situation and never got very friendly - and, in any case, some doves had to go because there was no more room. After selling them, there was one last fertilized egg so I stuck that under Tricksy and so she raised Lefty.


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## KrysKritters

I didn't know there was a specific leg to band. Thanks for telling me.  I got my bands in the mail already so I am reading up on the details of that... found a nice site with drawings to show how its done. 
Thanks for sharing the pics. They are beautiful babies!  question... is it just me or do thier beaks look rather large?


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## Lefty07

*Bands*

I don't know if there really is a specific leg to band but most people seem to put them on the right leg. Be careful when you slide them on to make sure the numbers read right-side up (the bottom of the numbers should be closest to the foot).

I think you put the bands on when they are like 10 days old or something - otherwise you can't get them on. Also, make sure you have 2012 bands for babies born after December 31.

I get my bands from the American Dove Association, of which I am a member.

Baby doves have large funny looking beaks - they get "normal" over time!


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## KrysKritters

Yes, they are 2012 bands... so my husband keeps saying the egg will hatch on Dec 31st. LOL
The site I found says to band them between 5-10 days old, just before their parents go to roost in the evening to prevent them from picking at the band. This way by the next morning they will have forgotten about it. 
I'm not a member anywhere (yet) so I think my bands are just generic. I bought them online through a link someone on here gave me.


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## Lefty07

*Year on bands*

I wouldn't sweat it if the eggs hatch on Dec 31 and the bands are 2012. I don't know if there's a hard rule that the band year should represent the year they hatch or the year they are banded. Anyone who would care about the year on the bands would know that hatching and banding is only a few days apart.

To me, the important thing is that the year gives an idea how only they are. I have an unbanded dove that is 18 or 19 or 20 years old and it would be nice to know now, how old she really is... but I can't remember the exact year I got her! All I know is I had her before I got my dog, who died at age 17 a little more than a year ago!


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Yes, they are 2012 bands... so my husband keeps saying the egg will hatch on Dec 31st. LOL
> The site I found says to band them between 5-10 days old, just before their parents go to roost in the evening to prevent them from picking at the band. This way by the next morning they will have forgotten about it.
> I'm not a member anywhere (yet) so I think my bands are just generic. I bought them online through a link someone on here gave me.


After they were 7 days old, my last clutch was too big to be banded. (Partly, it depends on how big the parents' feet are--thus what they pass down  )


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> After they were 7 days old, my last clutch was too big to be banded. (Partly, it depends on how big the parents' feet are--thus what they pass down  )


I band my Ringneck Doves when they are between 5 and 7 days old...my Diamond Doves when they are between 7 and 10 days old. A single squab in the nest will grow faster and larger than 2 squabs in the nest.

Also...record keeping is important. You will want a record on who has been paired together, when they lay, when they hatch, color, sex, pedigree, etc.
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Articles/Forms/Forms.htm

I use Dr Miller's cage card to write the breeding information down...then I transfer it to my computer which also includes a pedigree on the parents.

The American Doves Association is a great club to join. It has a newsletter that is published quarterly with articles on care, breeding, banding, genetics, aviaries, etc.
http://www.doveline.com/ 

Dawn


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## Lefty07

*Time to put on bands*

Thanks everyone for mentioning that Ringeck Dove bands need to go on when chicks are 5 to 7 days old. When I mentioned 10 days, I think I was thinking of my finches, which you do a little later.

I never had an issues with the parent doves complaining about the leg bands. I just took the babies out, slid the bands on, and plunked them back in the nest without any issues. And I must say, it was good to practice banding baby doves... 










...before I got to tiny finches!


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## KrysKritters

Thanks for the heads up... I will be sure to aim closer to 5 days to be sure the band fits. 

Dawn thanks for the worksheets.... there are so many clubs out there... am trying to decide if it is really "worth" it for someone like me... I don't "show" and don't plan on becoming a large breeder... etc.... besides how do I choose which one to join? 

Ron, wow what a difference! They are so tiny compared to the dove!


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## Doves1111

KrysKritters said:


> Thanks for the heads up... I will be sure to aim closer to 5 days to be sure the band fits.
> 
> Dawn thanks for the worksheets.... there are so many clubs out there... am trying to decide if it is really "worth" it for someone like me... I don't "show" and don't plan on becoming a large breeder... etc.... besides how do I choose which one to join?


The American Dove Association is for everyone. It doesn't matter if you have one dove or hundreds. It is for both newbies and experienced dove fanciers.

http://www.doveline.com/html/membership.html

*Membership in the ADA*

Join now and receive:

* The complete DoveLine newsletter , published quarterly. Content includes informative articles on all dove species, ADA announcements, human interest stories, and a free "Club Classifieds" doves "for sale" or "wanted," and product advertising. Special features include articles on most asked questions about doves, genetics, information (including photographs) on aviaries and dovecotes, helpful hints, and special interest notes on keeping pet doves.
* A complete Membership and Breeders Directory for networking with dove enthusiasts around the world. The Directory includes a listing of doves kept by the members and an additional listing by state and country.
* Information targeted at the novice, the pet dove owner, the small collector, and the experienced large breeder of Ringneck, Diamond, and Exotics or Foreign Doves.
* The opportunity for participation in the annual National Young Bird Show with judging, awards, and sale of doves. For members participating in the Show, trophies and rosettes are awarded for "Champion Ringneck Dove," "Champion Diamond Dove," "Champion Silky Dove," and Reserve Champion Ringneck and Diamond Doves, as well as winners in color mutation classifications.
* The chance to purchase dove bands and several publications concerning care and keeping doves, and on color mutations. Stay up-to-date with technology and information relevant to genetics and breeding of doves.
* And much, much more!


There is a *Members Only Area* on the ADA site. There you can access a complete archive of ADA Newsletters in pdf files from 1972 to 2011. There is also a Message Board and Chat Room...and the Standards for Ringneck and Diamond Doves. I have been a member since 2000...I band all of my doves with ADA bands. 

Dawn


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## UssChicago1

Hey Lefty,
I really enjoyed reading your nicely detailed posts about your ringneck doves. I was wondering how you trained your doves to fly to you on command? I have two tangerine females who I bought from a breeder, and one white male ringneck. My male ringneck is so friendly and he always tries to fly and land on my arm. I think he may have been someones pet. He was found on a college campus covered in lice and mites, and then he went to a few other homes before finding me. He was so underweight at the time, i didnt think he was going to make it ! I still need another male for my second female tangerine, she is so lonely and starting to get beat up. 

Here are some pictures of my beauties !


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## Lefty07

*To get my doves to fly to me*

To get my doves to fly to me, all I ever really did was hold my arm out and tap it with my other hand, while calling them in a friendly way. You can also get them to fly to you by holding food in your palm.

Of course, they have to _like_ you first and be comfortable sitting on your arm, etc. before they are likely to fly to you. So hand feeding is recommended. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my doves *love *hemp seed - if you can find it. There is usually some for sale on eBay and many on-line bird stores carry it also. My 4 doves get most of their hemp seed in the palm of my hand, when they are loose. And remember to talk to them - doves seem to pay attention when you talk to them and I think it makes you seem friendlier.










Be aware that 2 pairs of doves in one exclosure may result in some territorial fighting, especially if you try to set them up for breeding.


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## UssChicago1

Thank You so much lefty!!!


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## Doves1111

Lefty07 said:


> To get my doves to fly to me, all I ever really did was hold my arm out and tap it with my other hand, while calling them in a friendly way. You can also get them to fly to you by holding food in your palm.
> 
> Of course, they have to _like_ you first and be comfortable sitting on your arm, etc. before they are likely to fly to you. So hand feeding is recommended. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my doves *love *hemp seed - if you can find it. There is usually some for sale on eBay and many on-line bird stores carry it also. My 4 doves get most of their hemp seed in the palm of my hand, when they are loose. And remember to talk to them - doves seem to pay attention when you talk to them and I think it makes you seem friendlier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be aware that 2 pairs of doves in one exclosure may result in some territorial fighting, especially if you try to set them up for breeding.


Cool picture! I had a Bull-Eyed White Ringneck that would come to me whenever I called her. She was my house dove...all my others are kept in an outdoor loft. I handle and play with all my babies from day one so they will be tame...but Snow became EXTRA tame! She wasn't even weaned yet and she wanted to come out of the cage for me to hold her. When she was a youngster...she would immediately land on my shoulder when I entered the loft...and stay there the whole time I cleaned and fed the others. She would see me out in the yard and hang off the side of the wire in the flight...trying to get to me. I felt bad leaving her...so I brought her in the house where she could be with us all the time. Whenever my friend came over to visit... she hounded me to give Snow to her...this went on for about a year or so. I finally gave in and let Lynn take Snow home...that was 9 years ago. She is still such a cool spoiled loving dove. Every time she lays an egg...Lynn says she get up out of her nest and rings her bell! Lynn even potty trained her.
I have some doves out in my loft that sit on my shoulder and land on my head. Some are very tame and there are others that are no hands on...even though they were handled from the day they hatched. I have to be careful not to step on my doves in the loft...they love to sit on my feet. When I sit and watch them...my cute Tangerine Pearled Tufted male snuggles in lap...cooing and wing flipping.  

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

So I am thinking my dove's egg is a "dud"... today is day 16 and mom is still sitting on it in the nest but there is still no activity... 
How long do you all wait until you remove the egg? I learned they hatch between day 14 - 17 so I was thinking if nothing by Friday (which would be day 21) I would remove it.... unless she throws it out before then.


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## Lefty07

I would wait at least to day 22 or 23 because sometimes doves don't incubate immediately after they lay. Sometimes they wait for a second egg, which maybe you didn't get this time? In any case, there's no harm in letting them sit extra days - they will eventually abandon the egg.

Don't worry too much about getting them to breed successfully. Believe me, before long. your problem will be getting them to STOP!


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> So I am thinking my dove's egg is a "dud"... today is day 16 and mom is still sitting on it in the nest but there is still no activity...
> How long do you all wait until you remove the egg? I learned they hatch between day 14 - 17 so I was thinking if nothing by Friday (which would be day 21) I would remove it.... unless she throws it out before then.


I had one that was all the way at about day 23 and it just turned out he had been pipping very discreetly. So be patient. Eggs don't go bad very quickly when they're being sat on anyway.

BTW--while they pip, do not pick up or move the eggs. If you accidentally change the position of the egg, the chick could die of exhaustion b/c it will change how he has to get out.


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## KrysKritters

Well I do not see anything going on and I think they abandoned it... I haven't seen them sitting on her since last night.  I'm gonna leave it a while longer....


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## UssChicago1

Sorry Krys.They will learn from this and hopefully your next batch will be very healthy and fertile !!


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## KrysKritters

yea, well I knew it was a 50/50 chance... They will do it when they are ready.  

They haven't sat on the egg all day so I think it is safe to remove it now... it has been almost a full 24 hours with no incubation and no sign of hatching.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> yea, well I knew it was a 50/50 chance... They will do it when they are ready.
> 
> They haven't sat on the egg all day so I think it is safe to remove it now... it has been almost a full 24 hours with no incubation and no sign of hatching.


since they are young and inexperienced, it might be best to replace the next couple of clutches with fakes before letting them sit a clutch of their own so they can get some more sitting experience and generally get older.


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## KrysKritters

So I had been replacing thier eggs with the wooden ones... letting them get older before breeding but had some chaos recently and that distracted me and they snuck 2 eggs in... I know at least one of them hatched yesterday. Dunno about the other one. 
She won't let me get a good look. I don't think I should take her off the nest so I have been trying to peek at thier "shift change".

From what I do see the baby is so tiny & cute! Will he/she really grow that fast? I mean I am supposed to band him/her in 5-7 days but he just seems so small.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> So I had been replacing thier eggs with the wooden ones... letting them get older before breeding but had some chaos recently and that distracted me and they snuck 2 eggs in... I know at least one of them hatched yesterday. Dunno about the other one.
> She won't let me get a good look. I don't think I should take her off the nest so I have been trying to peek at thier "shift change".
> 
> From what I do see the baby is so tiny & cute! Will he/she really grow that fast? I mean I am supposed to band him/her in 5-7 days but he just seems so small.


Make sure that there is lots of hay in the bottom of that nest bowl. So the baby can grab and the legs will grow right. Just, when you take the nest, sheild with your hand so all the pecks hit you and not the baby. 

You'll see the baby(s) more with time. You'll be surprised how fast they grow.

Here's an album of my babies day-by-day:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.201629839879164.46051.100000964494245&type=3&l=7ad4ec8e02


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## KrysKritters

I got a peek and the other egg has not hatched yet... I do need to add more hay to the nest but I am going to wait until the 2nd egg hatches... right? In case the 2nd egg has piped, I don't want to risk injury to the 2nd chick.

When I do "steal" the nest to add hay, do I just take mom off and remove nest? or should I wait until she is already off it???


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> I got a peek and the other egg has not hatched yet... I do need to add more hay to the nest but I am going to wait until the 2nd egg hatches... right? In case the 2nd egg has piped, I don't want to risk injury to the 2nd chick.
> 
> When I do "steal" the nest to add hay, do I just take mom off and remove nest? or should I wait until she is already off it???


You can just carefully pop mom off the nest, but make sure to sheild with your hand so baby doesn't get pecked. Yeah, makes sense not to move it till the other baby is out of the shell so the egg doesn't get moved and the baby doesn't die of exhaustion. In the meanwhile, put an extra bowl in the cage that is full of hay and the parents can add it themselves. If you can find it dry, they would also appreciate some pine needles.


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## KrysKritters

The second baby hatched! 
I will lift mom off gently and remove nest to add more hay... and sneak a picture...
Anything else I should know?
I know I have to band them between 5-7 days... When should be ok for me to hold them a bit?


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> The second baby hatched!
> I will lift mom off gently and remove nest to add more hay... and sneak a picture...
> Anything else I should know?
> I know I have to band them between 5-7 days... When should be ok for me to hold them a bit?


Put your hand under mom's chest so you can ease her off. Be slow but deliberate and ready for her to fight you. Be ready to protect the babies from her attacks meant for you. Take off any rings when lifting the babies briefly out of the nest. you might even just prep a new nest bowl completely and transfer them to it and put them back under mom and then clean this one. That way they won't get the least bit chilled.

Start holding them when their eyes start opening. Begin just briefly holding them when you switch them to a clean nest (once they open their eyes you'll want to switch them to a clean nest almost daily.) As they get older, lengthen the time that you hold them. Once they start hopping out of the nest you can hold them for fairly decent lengths of time so long as they get back in the cage in time to be fed. Once they start eating on their own you can participate in helping to wean them


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## Libis

I said that poorly, not "back under mom". Once you put them in their nest back in the cage, she'll sit on them. (at this time of day, I'm guessing it's actually dad on the nest  )


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## KrysKritters

Preparing a second nest so I can just move them into a new one sounds like a good idea. I'll do that. 
Thanks so much! You have been a huge help in helping me learn!


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Preparing a second nest so I can just move them into a new one sounds like a good idea. I'll do that.
> Thanks so much! You have been a huge help in helping me learn!


No problem! 

Oh, have you found a local avian vet in your area that you trust? As the babies get older, you will want to know one just in case. Just like with human kids, it seems like young doves are much more susceptible to disease than adults. This summer one of mine wound up with a bacterial infection and I was so glad to find a good vet.


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## KrysKritters

Yes, I breed sugargliders and the vet I use for them is an avian & exotic vet. He is very good and we have a good relationship. I have already spoken to him about the doves just in case.


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## KrysKritters

I got pictures!!!



The nest is the best I could come up with. I ziptied it to the cage side so it cannot flip over on them...


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> I got pictures!!!
> 
> 
> 
> The nest is the best I could come up with. I ziptied it to the cage side so it cannot flip over on them...


Looks like you're going to have two little blondes there!  I love it when they're fuzzy!

As soon as you can, you're going to need to switch to untippable dog bowls. The holes in this plastic thingy could catch little legs. You can use the heavy ceramic dog bowls since they are easy to clean  That's what I wound up buying as my baby birds got bigger anyway. Alternatively, you can use the plastic kind that are made with wide bottoms so they don't tip. (See my album posted earlier.)


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## KrysKritters

What do blondes look like? They won't look like Uno huh? (Uno is momma)

I do plan on buying the dog bowl this week. 2 of them so I can switch them out for cleaning... but I wanted to get them in something bigger than the "egg nest/cookie tin" and wanted to get the pine needles in there. When I was letting them sit on wooden eggs, I didn't worry about the pine needles or the size of the nest, as long as it was big enough to fit momma. Now there is babies, so off a shopping I will go.

Oh, by the way... picking the babies up to move them into the new nest was liek trying to pick up jello... lol


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> What do blondes look like? They won't look like Uno huh? (Uno is momma)
> 
> I do plan on buying the dog bowl this week. 2 of them so I can switch them out for cleaning... but I wanted to get them in something bigger than the "egg nest/cookie tin" and wanted to get the pine needles in there. When I was letting them sit on wooden eggs, I didn't worry about the pine needles or the size of the nest, as long as it was big enough to fit momma. Now there is babies, so off a shopping I will go.
> 
> Oh, by the way... picking the babies up to move them into the new nest was liek trying to pick up jello... lol


Basically, the adult in the picture is blonde. It's just a guess, though. Some other colors also look like this as babies and I can't remember what color the other parent is to give you possible alternatives. With those little beaks and all that fluff though, I'm leaning heavily towards blonde 

Yeah, be really careful at this stage with any handling of them. In several days and definitely in a few weeks they'll be stronger and be easier to pick up. Though be ready for them to start taking pine needles with them when you move them lol. (They'll start holding so tight with their little footies  ) 

Once you have a safer nest, maybe don't clean until you band them so you're not over-handling at this stage. (Especially with 1st-time young parents.)

By the way, I can't remember how far you live from me. If you're in Nebraska or Western Iowa, or feel like a drive to Omaha from wherever, I'll give you two 2011 bands if you don't mind them being banded with old bands. (They're yellow ADA bands.)


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## KrysKritters

Thanks but I am in NY... a bit of a drive.  I do have 2012 bands though. They were cheap enough I figured they would be good to have around... think I have a dozen or so.

Both of my adults are the same color. I can never tell them apart. LOL SO you think they will look like the parents... someone told me even though both parents are that color, the babies could be another color. IDK, we'll see I guess.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> Thanks but I am in NY... a bit of a drive.  I do have 2012 bands though. They were cheap enough I figured they would be good to have around... think I have a dozen or so.
> 
> Both of my adults are the same color. I can never tell them apart. LOL SO you think they will look like the parents... someone told me even though both parents are that color, the babies could be another color. IDK, we'll see I guess.


Some blondes carry other colors recessive. For instance my blonde male carries white. But neither of these babies look white. Most likely you're going to get blondes--though there is a chance of other colors since I can't see recessive traits that are hidden.  You definitely won't be getting whites. (They don't have as much fluff as your babies, and their beaks and skin are all pink.)


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## Libis

Some helpful references:

http://www.ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's WebPage/dove_culture.htm

http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/YoungPages/RingneckYoungIndex.html

Since your babies look like this:
http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/YoungPages/BlondYoung.html
or this:
http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/YoungPages/DarkYoung.html

I'm thinking blonde or wild type. You might also look at orange.


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## Libis

You know, I may have been mistaken at the first glance at those parents. They're a little dark for blonde. They might be wild type (I'm sleepy right now, so I'll have to look again later.)
http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/AviaryPages/ColorWild.html


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## KrysKritters

Yes, I believe the parents are wild type... I never heard of blondes before but thanks for the links.


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## Libis

Yeah, looking at the little rings on their bills and overall coloration there, you've got little wild type babies to match mom and dad. :3


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## KrysKritters

That is what I figured.


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## spirit wings

KrysKritters said:


> I got pictures!!!
> 
> 
> 
> The nest is the best I could come up with. I ziptied it to the cage side so it cannot flip over on them...


That is about as perfect as it gets.. love the basket and the pineneedles, the only thing is she needs to sit on them..lol..  but then we could not see them in the picture..


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> That is about as perfect as it gets.. love the basket and the pineneedles, the only thing is she needs to sit on them..lol..  but then we could not see them in the picture..


You don't think they'll get their legs stuck in the holes?


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## KrysKritters

She is sitting on them now.  This was when I just put them back in the cage in the new nest. 

I worried about the holes too, that's why I put a paper towel or two down first to cover the holes. THen pine needles on top. I will also be replacing the basket nest with a dog food bowl that is tip proof when I band them in a few days.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> She is sitting on them now.  This was when I just put them back in the cage in the new nest.
> 
> I worried about the holes too, that's why I put a paper towel or two down first to cover the holes. THen pine needles on top. I will also be replacing the basket nest with a dog food bowl that is tip proof when I band them in a few days.


Yeah, I dunno--I could be paranoid, but it seems like a risk. 

You're lucky to be able to get dry pine needles this time of year.


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## KrysKritters

We haven't had much snow and I have lots of pine needles! Anybody need any? I can have my kids collect some for you and mail them.


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> We haven't had much snow and I have lots of pine needles! Anybody need any? I can have my kids collect some for you and mail them.


Not me--trying to slow everybody down lol.  I'm sure somebody here would appreciate them though. The doveys sure love their pine needles!


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## KrysKritters

I think from now on I will keep an "on hand" supply then. LOL


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## KrysKritters

Question... how long until they are weaned and can leave thier parents? I am finding conflicting info


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## spirit wings

I like the basket, nice air flow and with the paper towel and the pine needles it is fine.. I would not change the basket!.. you do not want her to abandon the nest, this can happen if you change things around.. I think you will be fine just replacing the paper towels as needed. They start eating on their own at about the third into the fourth week.


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## Doves1111

KrysKritters said:


> Question... how long until they are weaned and can leave thier parents? I am finding conflicting info


4 to 5 weeks. Make sure the food and water is on the bottom of the cage. You may have to dip their beaks in the water at first to show them where it is and how to drink. 

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

The babies are 3 days old and have already DOUBLED in size! New pics are on my facebook here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150605410507801.409876.367250592800&type=1 

I am planning on banding them on Tuesday. They will be 6 days old then. Wish me luck!


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## Libis

KrysKritters said:


> The babies are 3 days old and have already DOUBLED in size! New pics are on my facebook here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150605410507801.409876.367250592800&type=1
> 
> I am planning on banding them on Tuesday. They will be 6 days old then. Wish me luck!


You should check at 5 days to see if you can band them then. Some families grow fast enough that by 6 they could be too big. (Depends on genetics a bit.)


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> You should check at 5 days to see if you can band them then. Some families grow fast enough that by 6 they could be too big. (Depends on genetics a bit.)


I agree with Libis...it will be easier to put the bands on at 5 days...especially for a person who has never banded before. Just check the next couple days to make sure the bands don't fall off.

The babies are adorable...great pics! 

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

Would it hurt if I banded them both today? Now that I think of it, one dove was born 2/7 & the other 2/8 so that would make them 4 and 5 days old today.... I was thinking on checking the larger (5 day old) one today to see if the band fits... But I think it may fit on them both. What do you think? Then I will just check tomorrow to be sure it didn't fall off. (I don't think it will.)


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## spirit wings

KrysKritters said:


> Would it hurt if I banded them both today? Now that I think of it, one dove was born 2/7 & the other 2/8 so that would make them 4 and 5 days old today.... I was thinking on checking the larger (5 day old) one today to see if the band fits... But I think it may fit on them both. What do you think? Then I will just check tomorrow to be sure it didn't fall off. (I don't think it will.)


all you can do is try it, and replace it everyday untill it stays..


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## KrysKritters

That is what I was thinking but (not that I have any experience with birds to back my opinion up) I think they will be fine if I do it today. I am just waiting for "nap time" I figure it will be less stressful if the kids aren't running around while I am trying to band them.  I will let you know and post the new pics later.


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## spirit wings

KrysKritters said:


> That is what I was thinking but (not that I have any experience with birds to back my opinion up) I think they will be fine if I do it today. I am just waiting for "nap time" I figure it will be less stressful if the kids aren't running around while I am trying to band them.  I will let you know and post the new pics later.


yes use your best judgement..you are there we are not.. lol.. just take one out at a time so the other is still in the the nest and be calm..


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## KrysKritters

Luckily I am used to handling the gliders and they are just as small so I am not nervous about it... only difference is we do not band gliders and gliders will grab onto your finger and hold it for dear life. lol


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## KrysKritters

Today was banding day. The babies got thier ID bands and first weights. 

This is "65-12-0" who hatched on 2/7/12...


This is "65-12-1" who hatched on 2/8/12...



I am sure glad I banded the larger dove today... it was a tight fit. The smaller one I will need to keep an eye on though...


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## Doves1111

Yeah...ta dah!!! 

Dawn


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## KrysKritters

They knocked both bands off the babies and threw them out of the nest. Darn it... I really thought at least the larger ones would of stayed on. Well I guess I will have plenty of practice banding doves when these two are done... should I try again tomorrow or just wait until Tues?


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## spirit wings

KrysKritters said:


> They knocked both bands off the babies and threw them out of the nest. Darn it... I really thought at least the larger ones would of stayed on. Well I guess I will have plenty of practice banding doves when these two are done... should I try again tomorrow or just wait until Tues?


try everyday..you would be so suprized how little time goes by and the babies are too big for the band. They grow so quick, and even one day can make a difference.


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## Woodnative

This"*65-12-1*" this is "*65-12-0*"

What lovely names for them, LOL! They look great and I am sure you are enjoying them!


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## KrysKritters

Well I got "65-12-0"'s band to stay on. Yay!

The other one is the younger one and a bit smaller so I am going to try again tomorrow night.


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