# flight pen ideas?



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I am going to have my loft built soon. Instead of a small, wedge shaped aviary though, I would like to attach a flight pen. My birds don't fly free, so they will need a place to exercise a little. 

Does anyone have advice? How large should it be? Should I suspend it above the ground or have it run all the way to the ground? Does it need a roof or a partial roof? Does 1/4" hardware cloth provide enough protection? We do have some feral cats that hang around, and I have seen one hawk as close as 3 blocks away. (The yard has a 6' fence around it but somehow those darn cats still get in.)

The person I am hiring to do this does not know birds at all so I will have to give very specific instructions.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

A couple of things to keep in mind.

1) 1/4 inch hardware cloth will not let droppings fall through. If it is on the floor you will soon have a very big mess. My large fly pen for my prisoner/breeders has expanded steel grates for the floor. They come in 4' X 8' sections and are about $60 a sheet here in the south. They are on 2" X 6" studs placed 12" apart and this set up supports my weight fine.

2) If it is elevated and screaned or grated on the bottom, you will have to get under there to clean it out periodically or you are going to attract rodents. If it is going to be off the ground it helps if it is way off the ground so you can get under there. Mine is 7 feet off the ground.

Hope this helps some.

Dan


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

learning said:


> A couple of things to keep in mind.
> 
> 1) 1/4 inch hardware cloth will not let droppings fall through. If it is on the floor you will soon have a very big mess. My large fly pen for my prisoner/breeders has expanded steel grates for the floor. They come in 4' X 8' sections and are about $60 a sheet here in the south. They are on 2" X 6" studs placed 12" apart and this set up supports my weight fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dan! Very helpful.

I am thinking now that maybe the pen should be directly on the ground. I will not be able to suspend it more than a couple of feet off the ground, so cleaning underneath would be difficult. 

Are there difficulties to consider with that? Also - does the top of the pen need a roof?

What about a slightly raised solid floor? With a trap door near one end I could maybe scrape the droppings into a bucket underneath?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Our smaller aviary is built on paving, but still has the hardware cloth floor. We have a plastic roof fitted over the wire roof, so it stays dry inside. We used to just have wood chips on the floor on top of the wire, but due to the particular nature of a couple of the birds' problems we now use rolls of plastic sheeting which are readily changed as necessary.

Our large aviary has paving slabs for flooring (on top of the hardware cloth). It means it can be washed down quite easily. Water tends to drain off to one side and out, and we have an unpaved section with removable cover where we can sweep the droppings and excess water, and clear out the 'pit' every couple of days. In fact, a lot of the droppings are collected and used to make compost. We also have a strong plastic roof for the aviary (we do get quite a lot of rain, which was nice for the birds to take a shower, but really made things messy). 

We find that though no rats can get into the main aviary, they and/or mice do tunnel under the hardware cloth. We are re-laying the paving slabs, and ensuring that there will be no gaps for spilled food to fall through, and putting pea gravel down through the wire first to discourage digging and firm up the base somewhat.

As for size, depends really on how many birds you anticipate may be using it.

John


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

I have a flight pen that is made out of a dog kennel connected to our loft. This reaches all the way down to the floor. The floor is covered by cement blocks so it's quite easy to wash with a power hose. I have never had a rodent problem even though the kennel's openings are bigger than what they say it should be here on pigeon talk. Flight pens are really good for prisoners to be able to stretch their wings once in a while since they're not allowed out. My flight pen has no roof at all, it's a side of the dog kennel placed on top and it's nice for the birds because they get a lot of sun and if they want shade they can just go back into the loft.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Thanks folks, for sharing your experiences!!!
I think I know what I want now...much appreciated !


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## the bird man (Jun 18, 2008)

my pen is build out of an old chicken rooste that has a metal roof and its close to a fence so I just used pvc poultry wire and some 4X4 posts and i extended from the fence to the top of the 8ft post with EMT tubing and i used some zip tys to hold the poultry wire together it works perfect for keeping out hawks and cats and oddly enough dogs too


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## the bird man (Jun 18, 2008)

oh and its 24 feet long 10 feet wide and about 8 feet tall


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Mine is made of hardware cloth all round including the roof, which lets rain in and they like to have a rain bath on wet days. it goes to the ground. I recommend giving hem as much room as you can!


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

John_D said:


> Our smaller aviary is built on paving, but still has the hardware cloth floor. We have a plastic roof fitted over the wire roof, so it stays dry inside. We used to just have wood chips on the floor on top of the wire, but due to the particular nature of a couple of the birds' problems we now use rolls of plastic sheeting which are readily changed as necessary.
> 
> Our large aviary has paving slabs for flooring (on top of the hardware cloth). It means it can be washed down quite easily. Water tends to drain off to one side and out, and we have an unpaved section with removable cover where we can sweep the droppings and excess water, and clear out the 'pit' every couple of days. In fact, a lot of the droppings are collected and used to make compost. We also have a strong plastic roof for the aviary (we do get quite a lot of rain, which was nice for the birds to take a shower, but really made things messy).
> 
> ...


That sounds like a great design. 
I designed mine at first with a lot more features that just haven't been installed the way I thought they would be. Mine is just a flight pen, no loft, and the birds live in there full time. That's why I have a fully insulated roof, cement floor, and the nest boxes are plastic. It gets hot in Mesa so I have two large pans of water on the floor at all times during the summer. If they want a bath to cool down I want them to have it. It also helps with adding humidity. I would like to make a second aviary, twice as large, for rescued white kings. I'm not really interested in buying new birds, since there are plenty of homeless ones out there. These tips are some of the best I've seen. Nothing against some of the PVC and twist tie aviaries out there, but personal experience states if it isn't steel and stone it isn't an aviary.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

the bird man said:


> my pen is build out of an old chicken rooste that has a metal roof and its close to a fence so I just used pvc poultry wire and some 4X4 posts and i extended from the fence to the top of the 8ft post with EMT tubing and i used some zip tys to hold the poultry wire together it works perfect for keeping out hawks and cats and oddly enough dogs too


What does the PVC Poultry wire look like? Is it 1/2 inch squares like metal hardware cloth? 

I've seen something like that used for lofts, and my contractor offered it as an option too. My fear was that hawks could rip through it so I went with standard metal hardware cloth instead.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I first put the heavy plastic poultry wire on my aviary, when I didn't expect to make it permanent. I don't know if it was PVC or some other kind. But it was very heavy plastic that was made just like poultry wire. Anyway, the squirrels kept getting in, and the birds out, through the holes made by the squirrels. Have decided to make it permanent, and bought the heavy hardware cloth. I'll stay with the metal cloth. If squirrels can get in, so can rats. Live and learn.


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