# Hawk Attack



## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Today I had one of my young birds return from loft flying and I saw some red under its wing..I caught it and it had 2 deep puncture wounds under its wing on its right side. I did not find any more wounds on the bird. 

I brought the yb inside and bathed it in my sink and cleaned out the wound. I poured some hydrogen peroxide over the holes to rinse out any infection. I would guesstimate these punctures to be almost 1/2" deep. I put some triple antibiotic (generic neosporin) over the holes and returned the bird back to the loft. 

My question is with puncture wounds how do you handle these kinds of injuries so they do not scar and impair the birds ability to fly? This yb is impressive to escape whatever had a death grip on it and return home like it did. I would like to do whatever I can to help it recover back to 100%. 

I did have it separate (quarantined) from the the other birds but this yb was flipping out wanting back in the loft so I caved in and let it take its perch back.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

They recover fast! As long as no bones broke and can fly the usual I wont worry about it. Obviously don't fly the bird until it is fully recovered. If you do the injured bird flies slow and vulnerable for another target attack. When bone(s) break(s) in their wings somehow their performance lessens even after recovery.

Now if the wound is too big, then you have no choice, but to stitch it.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

a pigeons heart beats twice as fast as ours and this gives them the ability to recover from such injuries very quickly.he probably wont want to fly out for a while anyway but antibiotics and two weeks loft rest and he should be fine.
one lucky bird, the experience will do him good in the future.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Had the same thing happen earlier this year. Treated it just like you did. Took a couple of weeks and it was out flying a little....on the second day it was flying really well I lost it?


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

2 weeks of loft rest sounds like a good course of action. I think I'll continue with the triple antibiotics and we'll see how it turns out. Thanx for the feedback.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Your lucky, I'm a little bummed I was sitting outside with the birds a hawk flew right past me 5 ft over my head and they all went nuts, he didn't get any but he scattered them all. Some it was just their 2nd time out. I was missing 4 last night, got 1 back today still missing 3 I hope they come back.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

First To Hatch said:


> Your lucky, I'm a little bummed I was sitting outside with the birds a hawk flew right past me 5 ft over my head and they all went nuts, he didn't get any but he scattered them all. Some it was just their 2nd time out. I was missing 4 last night, got 1 back today still missing 3 I hope they come back.


This year on my young birds first flight out I had two hawks hit my loft and I lost 4 youngbirds that day two got eaten and two were fly offs . It was very sad but for now the hawks are busy with wild prey so I was able to introduce 3 others and they are still here and I plan On introduceing at least 12 more when the time is right . Good Luck !!


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

*lighting strikes twice*

The bird with the puncture wounds I previously posted here was AU 2011 JAX 2621. 

This evening I had its nest mate come home AU 2011 JAX 2622 with* no tail feathers * and punctures through its wings and into its sides and back.

Yesterday, I did a short loft fly about 45 minutes before sundown. It started to rain almost 15 minutes after I released them and the birds scattered. 

Some trapped in, Some went and laid out on top of the aviary and others shot up into the trees. After the rain shower passed I was able to call most of them in. 

My question is a homer without a single feather on its tail (a bald rump) could all its tail feathers grow back by September? or should I just use this lucky survivor as my loft dropper?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I believe they will come back in that amount of time. If memory serves me well, I had one in a similar situation and they grew back in less time.

If nothing else, they should be back in time for the later races, and it is still alive, and presumably a lot wiser.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

In reference to the bird with the two puncture wounds. Are you confident that it was not buckshot from a shotgun? It is unusual for a bird to escape a hawk that gets its talons into a pigeon. But it does happen.

I had a bird come back from a 150 mile race (actually it won the Combine that race) , and it had blood on the underside of one wing. I thought it was injured on the wing. But I took it to a vet. and had him check it and there was just blood on the wing and no injury there. But the bird was limping on that side and also had a difficult time flying. The vet x-rayed the bird and found one #10 buckshot in the birds side/chest area. The blood on the wing was actually from this spot and got on the wing as the bird flapped while coming home. But the puncture hole in its chest/side area was not observable and did not have blood on it when I checked it myself, strangely.

Someone apparently shot it during the race. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Probably a dove hunter. 

Check yours to see if maybe it is shot. My vets decision was that we should just leave the buckshot there and the bord would probably be okay. (Unfortunately the bird was killed by a dog, while sunbathing on the ground, a week after that).


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I have 2 birds that attract hawks often. I suppose predators detect the weakest of the bunch. It must be family related weakness thing. If you fly your sprint birds together with your slow long distance birds, the predators will most likely target the long distance birds.

Tail feathers or for that matter flight feathers probably can grow full size in about 8-12 weeks or more.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> In reference to the bird with the two puncture wounds. Are you confident that it was not buckshot from a shotgun? It is unusual for a bird to escape a hawk that gets its talons into a pigeon. But it does happen.
> 
> I had a bird come back from a 150 mile race (actually it won the Combine that race) , and it had blood on the underside of one wing. I thought it was injured on the wing. But I took it to a vet. and had him check it and there was just blood on the wing and no injury there. But the bird was limping on that side and also had a difficult time flying. The vet x-rayed the bird and found one #10 buckshot in the birds side/chest area. The blood on the wing was actually from this spot and got on the wing as the bird flapped while coming home. But the puncture hole in its chest/side area was not observable and did not have blood on it when I checked it myself, strangely.
> 
> ...


I think tomorrow I will take back my AA batteries from son's toys and take some pictures. I bathed the bird to wash away the blood so I could see the damage done, hopefully I should be able to get some clear pics. 
Also I live in the city and if someone fired off a shotgun I am pretty sure I would hear it.
There are owls that visit the trees around me and I suspect that this bird got caught "sleeping". I can't imagine this much damage being done in mid air.



RodSD said:


> I have 2 birds that attract hawks often. I suppose predators detect the weakest of the bunch. It must be family related weakness thing. If you fly your sprint birds together with your slow long distance birds, the predators will most likely target the long distance birds.
> 
> Tail feathers or for that matter flight feathers probably can grow full size in about 8-12 weeks or more.


 Interesting twist on these nest mates. I was thinking my loft care and all the supplements (redcell, probios, evo, garlic,brewers yeast, ACV) made these some super strong pigeons able to escape deaths grip. (They have the scars to prove it) 
Both have made it home banged up and bleeding. Never occurred to me that they could be flying Hawk bait. 

All I can really say now is everyones advice about AU 2011 JAX 2621 was right. That little yb flys well and has been consistently in my first 10 to trap in with the feed whistle.


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

You would be surprised the damage a hawk can cause by a single mid air hit,it is ment to kill.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

If the feather is pulled out at the base it will grow back faster. If it is cut off and the base is still intact it will have to wait untill the next molt. Pulling the stump is an option but either do it or dont do it. If you start to pull then quit, infection can take the bird. The worst thing is when the feather is cut off in the blood zone of the quill. It can introduce infection and form a tumor. Very nasty.


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

A full tail should grow back in about 6-7 weeks. Flights take longer but tail should be good to go well in time for your September races. Good luck!!


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

*Here are some pics*

I kinda nicknamed this guy "Capt Stubbin" not after the love boat but after the badger in the movie The Salton Sea. I think this guy showed true grit making it home alive. 






































I have him quarantined and I am treating him with amoxicillian to help him fight off any infections. I think he will recover fine..he is a fighter and without all the blood dripping he looks totally better then just 24hrs before.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

*Last pic*










I forgot I took 5 pics of him. Anyone ever seen such a sad sight? Poor guy looks like a chicken now.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That bird is a fighter. I had a bird that returned after 2-3 days with a hole on her chest and was limping after an hawk attack. After that she went to attend her fake eggs. What a hen!

Question about your bird. Why is your bird's beak cere not white?


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

RodSD said:


> Question about your bird. Why is your bird's beak cere not white?


All of my ybs start off with a pink fleshy colored cere...as they get older it turns white.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Understood! Yes, you are correct on that one. My birds are the same. But their cere becomes whitier faster.

The reason I asked was that I thought that bird was sick(indicated by that cere's color) so it got targeted by a predator.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

RodSD said:


> Understood! Yes, you are correct on that one. My birds are the same. But their cere becomes whitier faster.
> 
> The reason I asked was that I thought that bird was sick(indicated by that cere's color) so it got targeted by a predator.


If a fleshy colored cere means a yb is sick then I'm ruined because more then 1/2 of my ybs all have the same color cere. I had one of the best if not the best flier in my club look over my loft and birds and he said their droppings are fine and he could see the probiotics I give them. This bird is 4 months old and I think in another 2 months its cere will darken.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I don't know exactly when bird's cere turns chalky white, but I have birds with the same age as yours already turned white. I suppose it varies?


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

RodSD said:


> I don't know exactly when bird's cere turns chalky white, but I have birds with the same age as yours already turned white. I suppose it varies?


I'm not sure myself now. I'll have to bug some more ol timers in the club and get their opinion on it. I have heard of wet wattles or watery eyes as being indicators of respiratory but not just having pink ceres as being an indicator. So what do you think a pink cere in a yb means?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

The bird does look a bit off...I think that generally the wattle turns white when the eyes are getting their color...that birds eyes are colored now not the darker dingy color of a real young bird...may be something to this. Or I could be remembering completely wrong???


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> The bird does look a bit off...I think that generally the wattle turns white when the eyes are getting their color...that birds eyes are colored now not the darker dingy color of a real young bird...may be something to this. Or I could be remembering completely wrong???


You guys could be right..This yb took off and flew in the rain and came home butt scalped. I'll ask around tomorrow and maybe take a few over to my mentors place for a closer examination.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The reason why beak cere(or wattle) looks brown or off-color is that the cere acts like an absorbent to those mucus or water or moisture when they have respiratory disease.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

RodSD said:


> The reason why beak cere(or wattle) looks brown or off-color is that the cere acts like an absorbent to those mucus or water or moisture when they have respiratory disease.


I would agree with you if the cere was ever white and then changed colors on them..but more then 30 of my ybs are still with the pink ceres. 

I'm not saying your right or wrong about the respiratory disease. 

I haven't noticed any wet wattles, watery eyes, chest rattling or even sneezing from my birds. 

I'll have to get a more experienced fanciers opinion and confirmation before I begin to treat the birds for something I doubt they have but it is possible. 

Thanx for the heads up and I'll look into it and let you know.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

No problem here. If it is common in your birds, then I suppose it is normal. Ask other people to get their opinions. The bird just looks way off to me unless the camera lighting is tricking my eyes.


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I would agree with you if the cere was ever white and then changed colors on them..but more then 30 of my ybs are still with the pink ceres.
> 
> I'm not saying your right or wrong about the respiratory disease.
> 
> ...


Maybe you can try giving them garlic.


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

jpsnapdy said:


> Maybe you can try giving them garlic.



Definitely Garlic in their drinking water . It cleans their blood and will turn their wattles white as snow. As far as that baby that was hit, alot of TLC , watch for infections and he will recover just fine. Whether he will be a racer, only time will tell. But, you will have the satisfaction of saving his life and giving him the chance he deserves


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I had my club mentor come by and we both looked over all my ybs and he said they look fine, their droppings are nice and their eyes are clear. I thought I had over 1/2 my team with flesh colored wattles but its more like only 15.
He wanted to quit looking but I made him check all of them for any sign of respiratory disease and together we couldn't find any. As far as Capt Stubbin he said keep the puncture wounds cleaned out and some birds develop white wattles faster then others and not to worry about it.
I won't lie I was worried I had missed something but the birds are in good form and if Capt Stubbin wasn't in tip top shape he would have been some predators dinner. 
I plan on switching up my rotation on the garlic (was once a week..now I'll add it in 3 times a week) and well see in a few weeks if that does the trick.
Thanx for the advice.


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