# Adding water...



## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi all! Been a busy few days, but Mel and Misty are doing really well! Mel has been gaining weight and growing, woohoo! I'm absolutely thrilled with how he's been growing these past few days. He's not caught up with Misty, but he's sure trying, lol! They are both 16 days old today, btw.

I have a question about Misty's diet. I started adding soaked seeds to her diet the other day. Basically, I soak some small seeds in water for like 5 hours, drain, mix the soaked seeds with some Exact, probiotics, a pinch of prime and cuttlebone. Since this mixture is pretty dry, should I now be adding a drinking water supply for Misty? I realize the seeds are soaked, so they are damp, but still, I'm worried she might get dehydrated or something.

I'm planning on starting Mel on this diet also, but just wanted to wait a few extra days. I think it's almost time though because he still seems hungry, even after his crop is pretty full of formula. Misty is quiet after her eating her 'seed' diet now.

Can anyone please tell me what to expect in the coming week or two? I mean, what sort of development or behaviorial thingies are going to be happening? Misty is flapping her wings ALOT, I get a good breeze from them, lol! Mel moves his wings, but he doesn't have nearly as many feathers as Misty has.

Oh, I took the sponge thingie off Mel's legs today, just to get an idea of how he was doing. He actually walked and sat down with BOTH legs under him, wheee! I was thrilled to see that! Then when I started to feed him, he got all excited and legs were sticking out everywhere, so I thought it would be best to put the sponge back on him for a little longer. I'm thinking a week should hopefully do it.

Ok, if anyone can give me a heads up on what I can expect from these two in the next week or so, I would so appreciate that.

Thank you,
Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Mornin Izzy, 

Great update! Glad to hear Mel is growing some now. He's been compromised with this crop problem and feeding changes, so hopefully he'll still catch up to Misty. If the problems are because of insufficient food at the time, then his feathers will be slower to sprout. You can start to offer the babies a small dish of water and see if they are interested in drinking. Do not leave water dishes around them unattended though. They may not know what to do at first so you can try to guide their beaks into the water. The flapping is normal and preening should start full throttle as well. They are exercizing their muscles. Sounds like a good update to me 



Brad


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi there Brad! All of this is "still" so confusing for me, lol! I mean, Mel supposedly has a stretched crop, because of my overfeeding, but now it's possible his underdevelopment is caused by lack of nutrition from being underfed, lol! Oy, I just can't seem to get it right, huh? 

I noticed this morning Mel actually has a bit more feathers on the wings, whew, I was very happy to see that! I'm really starting to wonder if I should be either feeding him more formula now, more often, or go ahead and make the switchover to soaked seeds. His crop empties rather quickly now, it's empty in 6-7 hours now, (Misty's crop takes about 9-10 hours to empty) but I'm also still feeding him straight formula, though I've thickened it back up again. It's actually 17 days old today and from what I read, I feel I should be making the switch to seeds, but honestly, I'm a bit nervous and afraid about it. I mean, he finally seems to be making progress and the last thing I want to do is mess things up again. But, then again, I know he can't eat formula forever, he does have to move onto seeds, what are your thoughts on this?

Izzy


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

*Oops...*

Don't know why that got posted twice, I guess I hiccup'ed.


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

I remember back when I had some button quail, they could easily drown in a little dish of water, so I put marbles in it, to keep that from happening. They were still able to drink, because their beaks went inbetween the marbles. Do you think this would work alright with Mel & Misty?

I have to admit, having button quail was soooo much easier. They peck food off the ground the minute they come out of the incubator and also, all I had to do to teach them to drink was to put their beak in the water supply and viola...they were trained, lol!

I still have to actually open Misty's mouth to put the seed mixture in, is there any tips on how to get them to "learn" how to find the food and peck at it? She seems to move her head everywhere except for where the food is.

I realize this is another transition phase for the birds and for me, so any tips/opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Izzy, 

It's too bad you can't get pigeon pellets. Mary and I came up with this idea to switch over from formula when she was feeding my babies. It worked very well. The pellets are vitaminized and she ground them up into a fine powder in a coffee grinder and mixed this with water like the formula. These pigeon pellets are made of pigeon grains so this was very healthy and nutritional sound food for my chicks. I still wouldn't leave water around them - just in case something horrible happened., give it a bit longer. As for switching Mel over to a more substantial diet, you could but make sure the seeds are soaked well and use smaller seeds. If his crop is emptying and things are going well like you said, then go for it. Like I said to you before, under "normal" circumstances, you shouldn't have had these problems. Chicks require constant care because unlike chickens and quail, are not developed enough at birth. However, when healthy and things work right, the process isn't too hard when you've got the time. 


Brad


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello Izzy and thanks for the wonderful update! 

Glad to hear that Mel is catching up and even his leg is improving, another week should be ok.. 
As for Misty's diet, you can also feed her forumula on the side, more liquid formula so she gets enough water to prevent dehydration.
At this age don't give them any water because they can choke, when they are more feathered and about 20 days old then I would suggest you give them a little dish or even if they wanted a bath they can have one and get used to the water.

As for switching Mel onto the seed diet, you can just give him afew once a day to get him used to it instead of switching the whole diet because his crop is a bit slower and you should start gradually.
The rest of the time just feed him the formula as you do now, and only give him a tiny amount of seed each day to get him used to it until you can fully switch him or fill his crop up more like Misty.

Flapping, peeping, squeaking, preening and moving a lot is very normal behaviour and shows that they are healthy.

During the next week and since you switched Misty over to the seeds you'll notice more change and growth.. 
As for Mel, he should be catching up but take it slow with the seeds and he should be ok.

Also can you post some pictures of them at 16 days old, please  

Keep us posted!


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi again Brad and hello Mary! Thanks for your replies, nice to share some good news for a change, lol! I'm glad to hear all the flapping, chirping and moving around is good news, cause they do plenty of that, lol!

I'm definitely wanting to take it slow with Mel, he's doing so well right now and I don't want that to change. Oh, I had another question about the seeds, would it be alright if I 'ground' them up a bit and add to Mel's formula mixture? I'll still give him a smaller amount than Misty is getting, but I'm wondering if that would help him get used to seeds or will I be defeating the purpose by grinding them up?

Thanks again and I'll get new pictures this afternoon and post!


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello Izzy,

That would be just fine as it's the same as pellets that are made of ground up seed and offered as a diet to adult birds. But I must say that I tried that once and had trouble with ground seed mixing with water and going through the syringe, it was like sand and water.. If you have success that would be great though!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Chick starter works great. And is already ground plus is medicated. Local feed store should have some


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

I used something called "Startena" by Purina when I had my button chicks. Only thing that sucked was the smallest size I could buy was a 50 pound bag, lol! 

I actually put a little bit of the smaller seeds into Mel's formula today, his crop didn't feel bumpy, like Misty's does after eating her seeds, but I feel better knowing I've at least started Mel on some seed, even if just a tiny bit.

Whew, I've been running around today, trying to catch up on errands I've been neglecting, hopefully I'm in for a bit now. I'll get some picts uploaded soon.

Izzy


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

*Are they drinking??*

I've been giving Misty water in an eye dropper, because the seed/formula mix she's been eating seems to make her crop kinda hard. I felt better making her take some water after each feeding, so her crop would be a little squishy and not so hard.

Tonight, I put a small lid with some water in it into their house. I put Mel's beak into there, he didn't know what to do, but when I put Misty's beak in there, I'm almost positive she was drinking! She kept the tip of her beak in there and then moved her upper and lower beak up and down, kinda like she was whispering. Is that drinking?? Then Mel watched her and did the same thing. They "drank" on and off for the next 5 mins or so, then Misty put her crop in there, I moved her out and then she went back to her usual sitting spot, then I removed the water.

They are 18 days old today, so I'm wondering that is ok that they drank on their own. Again, I'm assuming they are drinking, never saw a pigeon drink before and it's not the same way my button quails would drink, which was obvious. 

If they are drinking and it's ok, how often should I offer them water? Would it be ok to rig up something where the water was up off the floor of their house and keep it there all the time? I just want to make sure they are safe, as everyone has mentioned they can get hurt.

Thanks,
Izzy


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Wow!! Sounds like they did drink the water, Izzy 

18 days is old enough, and give them twice a day or so, especially in the morning when they wake up is the time they like to drink as I noticed with the chicks I raised.

Great update, thanks for keeping us posted


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

LOL Mary! You know, I figured they "must" be drinking, but, I'm so totally clueless about these little guys. I thought I better check here, just in case pigeons had a habit of just putting their beaks in water and moving their mouths for no reason, lol! 

I'll definitely give them access twice a day, thank you for the info Mary. 

Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Izzy, 

Sorry, I didn't get to see this post until now. Yes, it sounds like they are drinking. Pigeons drink water very differently from most birds. Pigeons "suck" up water without lifting their heads whereas most other birds scoop water and then lift their head to let the water flow down their throats. And another good observation on your part Just be ever so careful about the babies around dishes of open water. If they are smaller than the babies bodies this would be better but more easily tipped over. 



Brad


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hiya Bradsters! Yeah, they do drink differently! I felt kinda silly asking if they were actually drinking, but hey, I wanted to be sure, so I asked, lol! 

The buttons did just like you said, would scoop the water up and throw their heads back, so I figured all birds drank the same. Pigeons are quite different, aren't they? lol!

I'm super careful with the water, only have it available when I'm actually watching them and never leave them alone with it. Don't want them to get hurt from being careless after all we've gone through already.

Thanks,
Izzy


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