# Trying something new.........



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, here goes nothing. Everybody we fly with, well 3 out of the 4 give their birds open loft. One man has won every single race so far. A & B every week end. I know he gives open loft and his birds are strong as a bull. Head wind, tail wind, side wind, no wind, rain or shine......his birds are there EVERY week end. We talked to him for a while last night and he talked us into this.....so we'll see how it goes. After our birds get a certain age, they don't want to fly around the loft. If we chase them off of the loft, they go sit in the billion trees we have here. This flyer insists if we feed them and leave them alone, in a few days, they'll take off on their own and fly. We'll see.  I have always been against this and advised new flyers not to do this. (Are you reading this Jason??  ), mainly because of hawks. I hope I don't regret it, but I figured I can't say it doesn't work, because I've never done it.


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

I like it...But around my loft have many hawks early this year i lose birds every time i let them out. But it been 3 months now i only lost 1 bird..
i will try my first race this September and i have 20 birds left from 32..


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Wow!  The pictures say it all!  ...and they are wonderful pictures of your birds enjoying themselves.

I'm sure this was a hard decision for you, but I also know you always have your birds best interest at heart and wouldn't have made such a decision lightly.

I wish you and your birds much success and hope the birds will toughen up....and . I hope the hawks don't catch wind of it either, just the wind from the speed they may generate as they fly fast and furious into the winners circle.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Renee, does this mean they're out at night too? That would be my only concern. Being the dummy I am about racers I don't have any comments about what you're doing but I can already tell you will worry yourself to death about them - softy that you are.  You won't know until you try.

Scooter isn't included in this, is he?


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Good luck with it. I don't think I'd be able to do it because I have no idea what they'd get into when I wasn't around, sitting on the neighbor's roofs and whatnot. I'd rather not deal with that hassle.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> Wow!  The pictures say it all!  ...and they are wonderful pictures of your birds enjoying themselves.
> 
> I'm sure this was a hard decision for you, but I also know you always have your birds best interest at heart and wouldn't have made such a decision lightly.
> 
> I wish you and your birds much success and hope the birds will toughen up....and . I hope the hawks don't catch wind of it either, just the wind from the speed they may generate as they fly fast and furious into the winners circle.


It was a tough decision and not a final one by any means. We'll just see how it goes. They really enjoyed being out today and there were no hawks to be seen so all was good. Thing is, they ARE NOT at a day spa, so if they don't take to the sky in a few days, we'll go back to the way we did things before. Only time will tell................


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Renee, does this mean they're out at night too? That would be my only concern. Being the dummy I am about racers I don't have any comments about what you're doing but I can already tell you will worry yourself to death about them - softy that you are. You won't know until you try.
> 
> Scooter isn't included in this, is he?


Maggie, first off all........NO!!! Scooter is not in this circus. LOL I actually put Scooter, Punkin and Dory in a section by themselves today. They've got a 5' X 8' section with aviary and 40 perches all to their selves. I think they'll like that.
As far as the birds being out at night.........as long as they go into the loft before dark, no they are not out at night. That's really up to the birds. That being said, the birds were out all day and about 6:00 or so is when they would start getting on perches and ready to roost for the night. Around that time, you could tell they were getting restless. Walking around alot on the loft. The windows were open all day and they could go in and out of the loft when they wanted. About 5:30, I closed the windows and the only way in the loft was through the trap and once in, they couldn't get back out. By 7:10, all 48 birds were safely inside the loft. So it worked out good today. Some people that have an open loft just go in after dark and shut the loft up. I decided that my birds already know how to trap and I don't want them to get out of that habit. So whoever is inside when I close up the loft stays in and everyone who's out must trap to go to bed. 
And......ME WORRY???.......NOT ME!!.........I've done absolutely nothing today except sit in my back yard and watch the birds. From 11:00 when they were let out until 7:10 when the last bird went in. I didn't even cook dinner. LOL
Of course, I can't do that every day. We'll starve to death!!  We're just going to see how this works. It might be the best thing I ever did, and a week from now, I may be starving the poor birds (not really ) to get them back into the routine we had before.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

roxtar said:


> Good luck with it. I don't think I'd be able to do it because I have no idea what they'd get into when I wasn't around, sitting on the neighbor's roofs and whatnot. I'd rather not deal with that hassle.


You are right. I'd never try it if I had neighbors real close by. The worst my birds can do is sit in a tree or on my house. They'd have to leave home to sit on the neighbors house.


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## Guest (May 23, 2007)

your really gonna have to keep us up to date on this ....I always wanted to give mine the free loft but I cant seem to shake these coopers even still this late in the year  did that other guy have any loss rate percentage per year due to hawk predidation or not? good luck ,hope it brings home the gold


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

LokotaLoft said:


> your really gonna have to keep us up to date on this ....I always wanted to give mine the free loft but I cant seem to shake these coopers even still this late in the year  did that other guy have any loss rate percentage per year due to hawk predidation or not? good luck ,hope it brings home the gold


Well, people aren't going to like this, but this is the flyers take on things. He said the hawks WILL get some birds, but they're going to get them anyway. He does a head count every night after closing the loft. As long as there's only a bird missing every once in a while, he doesn't worry about it. But when he notices birds missing on a consistant basis, he knows the hawks are picking some off regularly, not just occasionally, and he shuts the birds down for a few days, then goes back to open loft. He's at work all day while his birds are out, so he can't "watch" them like I do. 
I do believe that by having the birds out, they become "hawk savvy" so to speak. Depending on the area, if there's a problem with hawks, those birds learn to be a little more alert and cautious. My birds on the other hand, seldom see a hawk here at the loft, so they are pretty laid back and relaxed. If one does show up, it will scare the crap out of the, because they aren't used to it. 
As long as I don't start having a problem with hawks, I'll be ok with this. We (luckily) seldom see a hawk. Not even once a week, so unless a hawk does come by and get a bird and then continues to visit, I'm ok. 
We've lost a few birds in the past 5 years to hawks, but not more than about 5. And that's in my back yard. Of course I don't know what's happening when they are out flying, but I can't control that. 
I will keep this post updated, because I'm as curious as the rest of you to see how this goes.................


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

QUITE INTERESTING, Renee!!

We will all be watching to see how things work out. You sound like you have almost an ideal situation to do an open loft and I sure hope things work out!

Of course, I DO hope you and your family get to eat...can one say, "order pizza?"  

WISHING YOU AND YOUR LOVELY RACERS ALL THE BEST!

LOVE HUGS SCRITCHES

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

This is quite interesting Renee, I hope everything goes well and keep us up to date on how things go.


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*LOst Champ*

Renee did you ever get your champ back? I know she was missing from the last race
Mel
www.melsloft.com


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Melsloft said:


> Renee did you ever get your champ back? I know she was missing from the last race
> Mel
> www.melsloft.com


No, she has not returned. We've got 5 birds missing from that race. The first losses of the year and the year is almost over.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

*Day Two*

Well, today went pretty much like yesterday. Let the birds out......about 7 or 8 got up and flew for about 20 minutes. The rest laid around like they are on some sort of vacation.  Have shut the loft up and all but 5 have trapped in. Not so sure that this is going to work out so well. Good thing for the day......no sign of a hawk at all today.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Renee

Thought you might be interested in something I read about what some 
Europeans are doing to get their birds in the air more. They are going to feeding three times a day. They are also in a sense flying open loft. They are having a hard time managing their birds, but are getting more air time. If I come across the article again I will send it your way. You may also play with your feed mixture to get more energy out of the birds. I went to more corn last season and the birds started flying better and had more energy. I researched feeding from some of the Europeans. Jos Thone feeds 25% corn as his base. http://www.thone.be/. I was using about 15% and uped the mixture and the birds flew better. Sometimes it comes down to flagging the darn birds. Good Luck

Randy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Just a short update............three weeks ago I went to an "open loft".....so far so good.........birds have their freedom all day until about 6:00 PM. The loft is then closed up and any birds outside must go through the traps to enter the loft. Every night, by 7:00 PM, all 48 birds are inside on their perches. They have food available all day long. They go for a flight every morning.....about 30 minutes or so. They spend the whole day flying from loft, to house, to tree, to ground.....back to loft. I feel they are getting WAY more excercise than being closed up in a loft all day. I've got three hens on eggs. The cocks spend the day gathering twigs to take inside to the nest. Other pairs take them and put the twigs in the boxes. Every morning, I clean the boxes and put the twigs back outside. So, the next day, they start all over again.
We've had a couple of hawk visits, but no birds injured or missing. They are getting very "hawk savvy" I believe. 
The birds sure seem healthier, look beautiful and shiny. As long as things go this smoothly, they'll have their freedom until it's time to start training for the races.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2007)

sounds good to me , if you can do that without hawk problems I would say go for it  I have a few really young birds still so I know they would be the first to go if I get any visits and last time I said to some one you know what so far so good no hawk hits so far in a long time the next day a hawk took one of my babies so I dont think I will say that again to jinx myself :s I was like dohhh why did I say that the gods are always looking to get me Im thinking when I get to cocky  oh well I hope you have a great season Renee ,I dont race but I do love to hear about it


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

I have had an open loft for some time now. I fly them in the morning and as soon as trapped and eaten I open the box (or my wife rather now that I am ill). The trap is on the ground wich would be put back in the evening. The bath is filled everyday in the middle of pic.

they will then have to trap for food again in the evening. We dont have hawks etc so they fly and walk about all day.

The birds look healthier, the adults will take the youngsters out as in the wild and fly with them, I have little groups that are up all the time etc.

I would have to agree that it does seem better but have no proof as not racing at the moment. Its winter now so gardenn does look a bit dry, temps around 15 deg Celcius in daytime


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

Oh and by the way - you do have a stunning loft - I can only dream....

The only problem I have is getting other lofts pigeons comming down here for a day or two. That could bring a pest or so. They ussually leave after a while but I did have one come down in an awful state so he's still around after 6 months.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Letting pigeons fly free*

Lovebirds,

What a wonderful set-up you have! 

And _billions_ of trees, also. Great! 

Beats my furtive glimpses of downtown ferals on the window sill.

City of Cologne sponsored raptors to control pigeons. Raptor (hawk, falcon?) nest in the gothic DOM (cathedral) tower. Prime real estate. The Dom is a major tourist attraction. 

The feral pigeons (including my tame pigeon *Wieteke*, who lives on the street) have developed fantastic evasion techniques. Now I know where fighter pilots originally picked their manouvers and techniques.

Sentinel pigeons monitor the sky from the ridges of roofs, and perches on tall buildings. Always several are on look-out duty. 

I frequently see a turtle dove sitting on a high antenna near-by. 

Crows often give warning. 

Pigeons were very active this last summer and winter in evading raptors several times a day. Less frequent alarms lately; maybe the raptors are raning farther afield for easier prey such as mice. 

Overall, I am not enthusiastic about the raptors; pigeons deal with enough stress in the city already. Learning evasion techniques is useful. 
Don't know how much techniques used in the city help in a country or suburban setting. 

One of my brothers in San Antonio watched feral pigeons (who roost at his neighbor's) fly figure-8's for a couple of hours last summer. 

Larry


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## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

Hi Renee!!! long time eh??? sorry I have been very busy with my Raptor Rehabilitation... forgive me! I would suggest keeping those piggies in when you sight a Raptor in the area. Once they recognize a food source, they may stick around and test their evasion skills relentlessly! There are babies to be fed!!! In fact, we have had our hands full with Hawk nest fall babies... I myself, won't let my crew out since I have resident Red Shouldered Hawks in my yard... Our babies are doing FINE! they are all sitting on dummies again... I miss you!!! and PT! time is fleeting and I have mouths to feed!!! Starlings, Grackles, Crows, and Hawks! All the Owlets successfully fledged! Your loft and space are lovely for the birds... there is nothing like freedom! Keep an eye on the sky! I know you are... good luck Renee. I hope the Raptors don't linger...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Cricket said:


> Hi Renee!!! long time eh??? sorry I have been very busy with my Raptor Rehabilitation... forgive me! I would suggest keeping those piggies in when you sight a Raptor in the area. Once they recognize a food source, they may stick around and test their evasion skills relentlessly! There are babies to be fed!!! In fact, we have had our hands full with Hawk nest fall babies... I myself, won't let my crew out since I have resident Red Shouldered Hawks in my yard... Our babies are doing FINE! they are all sitting on dummies again... I miss you!!! and PT! time is fleeting and I have mouths to feed!!! Starlings, Grackles, Crows, and Hawks! All the Owlets successfully fledged! Your loft and space are lovely for the birds... there is nothing like freedom! Keep an eye on the sky! I know you are... good luck Renee. I hope the Raptors don't linger...


Hey!....Long time is RIGHT!! Do you have baby pigeons? Did you get another loft built? Gosh girl.......you just stay away to long at the time........can't keep up with you any more! 
I'm taking good care of my birdies. I would never have tried this "open loft" deal if we had a REAL hawk problem. We've just never had much of one in the 5 years we've been here. See one once in a while, but not a common occurence. Just the fact that these birds have been "hanging out" for the past three weeks and NONE have been harmed it a testament to what I'm saying. It is so cool to see my pigeons be able to be "pigeons".


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Renee, glad to hear the boys and girls are still enjoying themselves.

You know, Phil posted a thread about whether homers/racers could survive with a feral flock. Looking at your pictures, all your birds seem to have the god given instinct to peck around on the ground for "whatever" they are finding and it makes me wonder if that could happen with lost or released homers/racers. I know yours are right at their home and know all they have to do is go into the loft for food but I was really taken by their pecking the ground.

Cricket - we miss you. Glad to hear your guys are doing well. Kiss all the Hey's for me.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Renee, glad to hear the boys and girls are still enjoying themselves.
> 
> You know, Phil posted a thread about whether homers/racers could survive with a feral flock. Looking at your pictures, all your birds seem to have the god given instinct to peck around on the ground for "whatever" they are finding and it makes me wonder if that could happen with lost or released homers/racers. I know yours are right at their home and know all they have to do is go into the loft for food but I was really taken by their pecking the ground.
> 
> Cricket - we miss you. Glad to hear your guys are doing well. Kiss all the Hey's for me.


Maggie, I don't know if my birds are "learning" anything or not as far as foraging. I can't imagine what they are eating out in my yard. We do have this old stump where we had a tree taken down when we moved here and there's always a dozen or so birds on this stump picking and pecking. I don't know what they are doing. Are they just moving stuff around or are they really eating bugs or what? I don't really know. What I do know is that they are happier than usual, or I like to think so. I guess they were just as happy when confined to the loft, because that's all they knew and it was "just their life". 
I could sit out and watch them all day. Got a few hens on eggs and just before they laid, the cocks chased them unmercifully all around the yard. Every where the hen would go, the cock was right behind her. They are either flying around the yard or walking really fast. It's quite funny actually. Then eventually, the hen will go back in the loft and go to her box and the cock is happy then, until she leaves the box and comes back outside, then here they go again. 
I guess either they are learning how to survive if they get lost, until they can get back home OR, they are learning how to survive and if they get lost, they won't worry about getting back home. I guess it can go either way.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Just thought I'd throw out that today was the second day I looked out and saw only a few birds outside. I walked out side and all of the sudden a shawdow passed over. These guys (about a dozen or so) were up flying in the heat at 2:00 in the afternoon. I'm pretty sure they weren't scared up because all of my old birds are lounging in the aviaries and a few of the young birds are walking around the yard. This is pretty cool.  
PS: Sure is quiet around today......even 911 Pigeon Alert is quiet, which is a GOOD thing...........just, I'm not used to it.


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Renee . . . Yes your birds look happy and they have all that space in your yard - nice. My only concern as you were wrting about their constant pecking at the ground is that they may be eating bugs and live tiny snails that may carry parasites. But I guess if they have plenty of grit available they won't be attracted by the snail shells.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

*lazy bums............*

here's the gang after flying, eating and taking a bath. Me AND Hubby were standing guard while they lounged around...........what a life! (for the birds I mean. it was pretty darn hot standing guard, but a Mom's gotta do what a Mom's gotta do)


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pictures of contentment for sure! They all seem to be enjoying their time out in the sunshine. Hang in there with the guard duty, Renee  

Terry


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

That is a BEAUTIFUL bird!!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

roxtar said:


> That is a BEAUTIFUL bird!!!


I call that my Patriotic Cock.......he's got Red, White and Blue feathers. He is quite a looker. His mom is the only white bird I have on my OB race team. You should see him in person. I almost hate to try to race him and maybe loose him, but if he's got enough of his mothers genes, he'll be fine.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terrific pictures Renee. They look so contented and you have 2 or 3 that are pretty smart cookies - laying in the shade at the edge of the loft.

Your patriotic pij is gorgeous.


PS - when you say red, white and blue is the blue really blue or is it gray? I know I have always heard "blue bar" but honestly the feral "blue bars" feathers are gray.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Terrific pictures Renee. They look so contented and you have 2 or 3 that are pretty smart cookies - laying in the shade at the edge of the loft.
> 
> Your patriotic pij is gorgeous.
> 
> ...


Well, his feathers are ACTUALLY black, but pigeons REALLY come in only three colors. Blue, Red and Brown. Every other color is a "version" of one of these. Black pigeons for instance, are really blue birds. The pigment is so clumped together, that is makes it appear black.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Renee,

Those are great pics of the birds living the good life. 

Thanks for sharing.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Those pictures are a wonderful brochure for your pigeon spa!!! Beautiful picture of birds in wonderful condition!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, here goes nothing. Everybody we fly with, well 3 out of the 4 give their birds open loft. One man has won every single race so far. A & B every week end. I know he gives open loft and his birds are strong as a bull. Head wind, tail wind, side wind, no wind, rain or shine......his birds are there EVERY week end. We talked to him for a while last night and he talked us into this.....so we'll see how it goes. After our birds get a certain age, they don't want to fly around the loft. If we chase them off of the loft, they go sit in the billion trees we have here. This flyer insists if we feed them and leave them alone, in a few days, they'll take off on their own and fly. We'll see.  I have always been against this and advised new flyers not to do this. (Are you reading this Jason??  ), mainly because of hawks. I hope I don't regret it, but I figured I can't say it doesn't work, because I've never done it.


Renee,

Good luck on your project. In my case, I am concerned with all the various bad habits that would be picked up and where they might decide to park themselves to annoy adjoining property owners.

If your birds are becoming house sitters, then there may be other issues that you might want to consider, feeding, health, etc. I suspect that certain families which require flagging to exercise may have genetic factors as well.

I personally was happy to see a club YB competitor go this route....just as I expected, on race day he always complained about the slow trapping. So don't be surprised if on race day, your birds return only to find their regular comfortable spot outside the loft somewhere. Of course my comments concern YB's as I do not fly OB's, but I suspect that my concerns would apply to them as well.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I agree with letting them out all day that they would develop some bad habbits. My birds will sometimes hit the ground. I am quick to get them back to the landing board. They were looking for supplimental grit. I gave them a pot of dirt and they went crazy over it. I would fly them morning and evening feed them good after flying and keep them trapping quickly. My neighborhood cats would love for me to fly open loft. My birds were very lazy last year. I played with their feed mixture added corn and they began to fly better. The were loft flying 10 minutes and then sitting on the roof waiting for food. I had two birds put in a good 30 minutes. I would not feed them until those two were done exercising. I added corn and the whole lot took to the air and did not want to come down. I would put them in a box and haul them down the road. Make them fly a bit.

Randy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Warren and Randy, believe me, I am concerned about the same issues. All I can tell you is that others do it and have success. I will be the first to admit that when it comes to feeding the birds and keeping them hungry in order to make them trap......well, frankly I just suck at that.  And I know that once they go to "boot camp" I'm going to have to really buckle down on them. We'll see if I'm able to accomplish it or not. The one flyer that I've allluded to in our club a few times, gets most of the birds he ships on a drop and other people have gone to his house to watch the birds come in and they all say it's amazing the way they trap when they get home from a race. Now, whether I can pull that off or not remains to be seen. I guess it's not *CAN* I but *WILL* I. 
I also know that Sat through Thurs, while racing, he lets his birds eat all they want. On Friday, before shipping a race, they don't get fed. I always thought and told him that I thought that was cruel, but bottom line is this. He does it, it doesn't hurt the birds apparently and he gets good results AND they keep coming home. 
So, like I said in an earlier post. I'm giving this a try. I may flop flat on my butt and be crying the blues come Sept. but you don't know till you try. Right? It's only one race season, so I figure, what the heck........


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

So said:


> I like the idea "giveing a try" ..whlie other stick by the book you given one race season with different method for illumination.I think racing get more exciting this way.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

1pigeon said:


> I like the idea "giveing a try" ..whlie other stick by the book you given one race season with different method for illumination.I think racing get more exciting this way.


Thanks. That what I said. It's only pigeon racing. I'm a die hard pigeon person, but I guess not a die hard pigeon racer. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy it, but if, starting tomorrow I couldn't race another pigeon for whatever reason, the birds would still be in my back yard. 
We actually didn't let them out today. Wed. night, when I counted heads, I was missing one bird. We let them out yesterday. Last night, when I counted, I was missing another one. We knew that a hawk had made a pass at them the last couple of days and so I thought he might have gotten a couple. But..........this morning while we were cleaning the loft, a bird showed up on the landing board. In about 15 minutes, another one showed up. So both missing birds came back home. 
They've only got about another two weeks of this "freedom" anyway. We'll Pox them next week end, let them out for 4 or 5 days, and then they'll get locked down until the Pox passes. By that time, it will be just enough time to get them flying again and then down the road we go for training.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Well...it's not that the idea is new...many people in Europe use an open loft format with much sucess. Since I employ a system which controls the amount of light that they get, open loft for me is out of the question. One year, I had no loft flying at all....just races and training tosses every day the weather was good. With gas at such high prices, it may not be affordable to run down the road every day 75 miles one way...and it is a lot of work. 

Just hope some readers don't unleash their birds onto the neighbor's all day and then get in hot water with zoning people. That would be my biggest concern...remember Chicago  .


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I already stated somewhere in this thread that I did not recommend this to folks who had close neighbors. If you're going to let your birds hang out all day, every place they "hang" needs to belong to you and be on your property. 
Having said that, we went to our neighbors this morning because they were having a yard sale, and she said that one of our birds was sitting on her roof the other day. Her daughter saw it but she told her daughter it would go home in a few minutes and it did. 
She also says that her and her husband come out every morning to watch the birds fly over their house. They live about 1/8th of a mile down the road, maybe less.
Even if I decide to do this again next year, I can't do it until we've turned our lights out. The birds would never go in. The first two nights the lights weren't on, I could go out to the loft and there were birds sitting all around on the floor. They didn't know what gradual darkness was. So to have them out side wouldn't work at all while they are on lights.


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

Back to the very frist one of this thread... the man who won every race with this method and his pigeons strong as bull...I think may be (it just me) with this method the only strong one stay in his loft other lost or.....
Remember flyers lost there pigeons in every race it is part of the game.
May be this guy just let them loose before racing ..then he has only his strongest and toughest one .
I think this method or every methods have to controls and watch by flyers ....the flyers just like pigeons coach for me.I think flyers have to study there pigeons and keep there records watch and controling them.
the experiences flyers will make it different...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

*All over for this year.......*

Well, the open loft is all over for this year I guess. Yesterday was their first day locked up in the loft. They've had food in front of them 24/7 for the past month, so I gave them half rations yesterday. This morning, called them in for breakfast and they all trapped, no problem. 
I'm also happy to report that the first day they were given open loft I had 48 birds. 30 days or so later, I still have 48 birds. Ol' Mr. Hawk gave them a run for their money a few times, but he just wasn't quite fast enough.  There were a couple of times when he was real close to a bird going across the yard and I was worried, but all 48 birds were in the loft every night. 
So, all in all, it worked out pretty good. I think by the time they've been locked up for 10 days to two weeks and have to trap every single day, and I control their food, by the time it's time to start training, everything will be ok. Time will tell................


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## Litewings (Mar 17, 2007)

*Open Loft Method*

Renee, Are you still happy with the open loft method? I've got some new young birds and some old young birds. I've been putting the older birds in a basket and letting them out a few hours after the younger birds. Also, do you give them all the food they want during the "Open Loft" time? I believe that two of my birds have been hit by hawks today and scattered about 10 or 11 others into the four winds. We'll see what happens tonight when I shut the windows.

Litewings


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Litewings said:


> Renee, Are you still happy with the open loft method? I've got some new young birds and some old young birds. I've been putting the older birds in a basket and letting them out a few hours after the younger birds. Also, do you give them all the food they want during the "Open Loft" time? I believe that two of my birds have been hit by hawks today and scattered about 10 or 11 others into the four winds. We'll see what happens tonight when I shut the windows.
> 
> Litewings


Actually, yes and I wish we had done it sooner.......maybe next year. The birds are on lock down right now since we poxed them, but this Sunday we plan on letting them out again. That will tell the tale. LOL......I'll see if they go fly and trap in or if they think they can still hang out all day. Only difference now is, there won't be any food and they won't be able to go in and out. Open loft is fine, but at some point you have to get control over them again. We'll find out next week how easy that is to do. Or how easy it is for ME to do. LOL
While they were on open loft, they did have food 24/7. They actually didn't eat much more than normal. Even though I gave them all they wanted, I still weighed it and they still only ate about 50 to 52 ounces every day. Normal rations would have been 48 ounces for 48 birds. So, it's not like they just pigged out or anything.
Sorry about the hawk. Hope all the birds make it back safe and sound.


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## Litewings (Mar 17, 2007)

*Lost two*

Renee It looks like I might have lost two (as expected) to hawks. Everyone else came back. They do appear to be happer with more freedom and I love seeing them getting more exercise. I believe that the ones that do survive will be stronger and maybe more hawk savy. 
Ron


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## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

So you do put the birds back in their closed loft at night? I'm not sure I understand exactly what "open loft" is, but from the posts in this thread, it looks like you leave them to run free during the day and put them in at night?
We have hawks and great horned owls here. I have been maintaining a bluebird trail, which actually has kept me on my toes. The hawks tend to be very predictable, after lots of time watching with my nose glued to the window . I now make a point to be out in the yard between 6pm and dark. I might look like an idiot to my neighbors, but the hawks are easily scared off if I make a spectacle of myself  , and it does warn the neighborhood birds who will then gang up on the hawk. Still, I count heads as they return. The owls, on the other hand, are night hunters, and I would worry about that- early to bed and early to rise here!
(I'm probably driving you all crazy with my questions- sorry- I just want to be fully educated by the time I aquire some pigeons of my own  )


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

michbird said:


> *So you do put the birds back in their closed loft at night? *I'm not sure I understand exactly what "open loft" is, but from the posts in this thread, it looks like you leave them to run free during the day and put them in at night?
> We have hawks and great horned owls here. I have been maintaining a bluebird trail, which actually has kept me on my toes. The hawks tend to be very predictable, after lots of time watching with my nose glued to the window . I now make a point to be out in the yard between 6pm and dark. I might look like an idiot to my neighbors, but the hawks are easily scared off if I make a spectacle of myself  , and it does warn the neighborhood birds who will then gang up on the hawk. Still, I count heads as they return. The owls, on the other hand, are night hunters, and I would worry about that- early to bed and early to rise here!
> (I'm probably driving you all crazy with my questions- sorry- I just want to be fully educated by the time I aquire some pigeons of my own  )


*ABSOLUTELY* If a bird stayed out, it was because he didn't trap in. What I did was open the loft about 9:00 in the AM. Most people (I think) that do this, go out at sunrise and open the loft. That's when the hawks are out looking for breakfast. So, I actually waited until the loft was clean and by that time, I'm hoping the hawks have had a morning meal. It worked most of the time. We seldom had a hawk bother the birds in the morning. It was usually around 1 or 2 in the afternoon, that one would occasionally make a pass at the birds. Then, about 6:00 PM I would close up all the windows/doors. Only the trap is left open. Any birds left out had to trap in. Then the traps were locked for the night. Like I said in another post somewhere, you really have to be in the right place or SHOULD be in the right place to do this. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this that has neighbors close by. The birds could become a nuisance to them if they decided they like the neighbors roof better for some reason. LOL


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## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

LOL- Well if they chose the neighbor's roof on the west, it would be fine- They are bird fanatics too....on the East, on the other hand....Well, that man is a pain in the keister! Well...I guess he not too bad, but sure doesn't miss a beat on this side of the fence...think he's got cameras on us- LOL

I think I would have to just do the morning thing anyways. I have checked all ordinances and such around here, but, even thougfh on 5 acres, it is a long slender lot. I would certainly not want complaints- That's usually what starts things at the township board


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi michbird,

Just my opinion but it sounds like maybe your letting the birds out when they are not real hungry. That or you need to check your traps, make sure the birds haven’t figured out a way to get through them and fix it before implementing the below suggestions. 

By letting them out not hungry (full), I mean that if you’re having trapping problems, simply cut back on the amount of feed. Not enough to starve them, just enough to make them think they are starving. That way they will all trap as soon as you give them the signal. This could be anything from a standard whistle to just shaking a can with some food in it. Just make sure it's the same signal each time you feed.

The vast majority of your birds should respond to this type of training toot sweet. As you give the signal and the first birds come into the loft give them some food, say 1/3 of the meal, then after the majority of the birds are in give another 1/3, then after all the birds have trapped give the rest. This way the quick trappers are rewarded and the slower trappers are left feeling hungry. It should not take more than a few days for the whole team to begin responding and pound into your loft within 20-30 seconds of giving them the signal.

At this point if you still have birds not responding (slow trapping) I would personally consider removing/culling them from the team. Your option on how to do that my friend......... If the bird(s) are out of some real good blood then put them over into a locked down portion of your loft and hold them until they have matured a little more, then try it again. If they still do not respond, try the above feeding method again, at this point if they still will not respond to the training you’ll have to make a more permanent decision on how to deal with the problem……… as I said it is your option on how to deal with that.


Lawman


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## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Hi Lawman,
I think you may have gotten me mixed up with another poster- I don't even have pigeons yet...still asking questions and trying to get educated before I make the big plunge. I do house bluebirds and swallows, but those are wild birds- no traps there  Your post is very informative, however, and I enjoyed reading it immensly!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Litewings said:


> Renee It looks like I might have lost two (as expected) to hawks. Everyone else came back. They do appear to be happer with more freedom and I love seeing them getting more exercise. I believe that the ones that do survive will be stronger and maybe more hawk savy.
> Ron


I was gone all day yesterday and must of missed this post when I was trying to "catch up" last night. (I HATE doing that.......). Anyway, don't give up on them just yet. I was missing a couple myself and then one or two days later, they just show up on the loft. They may return yet..............


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