# baby starling needs help



## camken

My mother brought me a baby starling two nights ago that some ppl found at her work. it was a VERY windy day and i think he must have fallen from the nest. Judging by the pics on Starling Talk, he is between 11-15 days old. I am a beginner at raising birds, but ive searched and searched and there just isnt a rehab center nearby, so i think im his last hope!!
when i first got him he was very vocal and jumped out of his box all the time- and ran away from me! he never opened his mouth for food so i had to force it down- was feeding a dry dog and cat food-soaked- with a bit of rice, cooked carrot, cooked pumpkin. yesteday he was still vocal- when i tried to pick him up- but by last night he had calmed down a lot. I thought maybe he was cold, but i warmed him up to a point where i knew he couldnt be cold and he was still very quiet and calm. he survived the night but had lost quite a bit of weight i think (you see because he wasnt opening his mouth i never knew how much to feed him) this morning he weighed 39grams, and has put on 2 grams today-and ive now got him on a wet cat food- very good quality and high in protien. he's just started opening his mouth for food for the first time, but he's still so quiet and still. hes so lethargic.
could it just be that he has calmed down and isnt so scared? also i would imagine that if there was more than one they'd probably make much more noise! so on his own he isnt encouraged to be vocal?
he often has his head tilted quite far back, as if he is backing away form me- is this just normal scared behaviour.
my main question is about his quietness and calmness- is this normal?


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## spirit wings

camken said:


> My mother brought me a baby starling two nights ago that some ppl found at her work. it was a VERY windy day and i think he must have fallen from the nest. Judging by the pics on Starling Talk, he is between 11-15 days old. I am a beginner at raising birds, but ive searched and searched and there just isnt a rehab center nearby, so i think im his last hope!!
> when i first got him he was very vocal and jumped out of his box all the time- and ran away from me! he never opened his mouth for food so i had to force it down- was feeding a dry dog and cat food-soaked- with a bit of rice, cooked carrot, cooked pumpkin. yesteday he was still vocal- when i tried to pick him up- but by last night he had calmed down a lot. I thought maybe he was cold, but i warmed him up to a point where i knew he couldnt be cold and he was still very quiet and calm. he survived the night but had lost quite a bit of weight i think (you see because he wasnt opening his mouth i never knew how much to feed him) this morning he weighed 39grams, and has put on 2 grams today-and ive now got him on a wet cat food- very good quality and high in protien. he's just started opening his mouth for food for the first time, but he's still so quiet and still. hes so lethargic.
> could it just be that he has calmed down and isnt so scared? also i would imagine that if there was more than one they'd probably make much more noise! so on his own he isnt encouraged to be vocal?
> he often has his head tilted quite far back, as if he is backing away form me- is this just normal scared behaviour.
> my main question is about his quietness and calmness- is this normal?


can you post a pic of the little bird? it may help members give you help. if you have probs with him flying out of the box you can buy a peice of screen, like for screen porches and put that on a laundry basket with some elastic to keep in on. sounds like you are doing a good job so far.


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## TAWhatley

Hi Camken and welcome! If you would post where you are located, we will try to find someone to assist with the bird. Are you sure it is a starling? It is way past baby bird season in North America, so I am ASSuming you are somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere. 

It is pretty abnormal in my experience for a baby starling at the age you have estimated to be quiet and docile. They do sleep a lot when so young, but usually your presence and the awareness of getting fed is sufficient for them to be standing up, gaping widely, and generally pitching a fit to be fed.

Terry


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## camken

*day 4*

thanks for the replies!
I live in a very small town in South Africa- no1 has heard of it and there is definately no rehab centre around!! Ive checked!
The starling actually perked up a bit after Id written the post and survived the night last night. He has started to cry out when i pick him up and he is walking around a bit. Yesterday aftrenoon he started to eat on his own- i mean he started to open his mouth for me.
my next question- yesterday when I weighed him he was 39 grams, then 41 grams, but this morning he is only 36 grams. can they lose that much weight over night? now that he is opening his mouth for food ive been stopping when he doesnt open his mouth anymore. because he's losing weight should i force a bit more down?

i'll try to put up a pic, but in case i cant:
he looks exactly like the bird in this pic from starling talk of a 13 day old baby http://www.starlingtalk.com/inthenestpics42.htm
he definately cant fly at all, but he does hop and jump a little. he doesnt really have any down/fluff left, its almost entirely feathers. He definately has a wide baby bird beak as in the pic.

is there a way to tell his sex at this age?

thanks again for all the help!!


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## camken

*day 4*

he still doesnt call out for food or get all hyped up over it. he just sits quietly and opens his mouth. do you think this could be because he is on his own and has no competition? its a bit worrying because it makes me think that he might just be weak?


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## TAWhatley

You can't tell the sex at this young age.

I really don't know what to say about the lack of enthusiam this young starling is showing. It's not normal in my experience, and when you do see this happen, it is usually an indication that something is not right. Have you joined the Starling-Talk board and asked the folks there about this little one? If not, I think that would be a good thing to do.

Keep monitoring the weight and feed until the bird stops gaping. I don't think I would try to force more food than the bird is willing to take.

Terry


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## camken

thanks so much!

i have registered with starling talk and am just waiting until i can log in.

He seems to have perked up quite a lot. He still doesnt get very excited over food- but he is very scared of me and cries out and tries to run/hop away when he sees my hand coming for him. I think this is good in one way because it means it might be easier to release him, but it worries me because im not sure that he's eating enough, because he isnt comfortable enough to beg for it.

Is there a guide as to what a baby starling should weigh at each day of its life. Im almost certain that he is about 13-15 days old.

Wednesday morning- 39grams
Wednesday late afternoon- 41 grams
Thursday morning- 36 grams !!!
Thursday afternoon- 40 grams
forgot to weigh before bed
Friday morning- 37 grams

he seems a bit under weight to me. I saw a picture of a slightly more mature starling that weighed 75 grams and only looked a few days older than mine.

Also, i have him in mock nest inside a small glass fish tank with lid. he sometimes gets some energy and starts walking and hoping round. the fish tank is tiny so he cant really move much- should i let him out into a larger area and let him hop around, or should he stay in his nest?

thanks again


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## altgirl35

hi, if he's hopping out of his nest it's time for a bigger cage for him with several perches.
it's also time to start offering him other foods and leaving them in the cage/crate for him to try out himself.
give him a nice big bowl of water to bathe in and drink (you'll need to change the water often they are very messy)
hang some spray millet, give him a cup of mixed seeds, i use cockatiel diet
every day make up a dish of scrambled eggs broken up in bite size pieces, soak some quality dry cat or kitten food in water but not to mushy it shouldn't fall apart when he picks it up but shouldn't be hard either, or use canned, fresh corn and peas, fresh blueberries or other native berries that they enjoy. take it out after a few hours and replace 
they also love meal worms, i usually will order mine online, get medium or large ones.

you can offer all of these things to him with a pair of tweezers or hemostats along with the hand feeding formula, focusing on the protein mostly.
they also like to play with bird toys.
sounds like he may come around, he sounds fearful, sometimes when you get them older they can be like that, just be persistent, and sometimes you need to space the feedings farther apart so he's hungrier and more willing to take food from you, but be careful he's still getting enough to eat if he's under weight.
not sure what his weight should be at his age, have you tried to feel his keel bone?? he should be steadily gaining weight so you may need to step it up a notch, adults in north america average in around 85 grams but sometimes fledglings can weigh a bit more.
i usually don't have time to weigh everybody everyday, i feel that keel and weigh when i get a minute maybe every few days if i'm lucky
try to feel that keel bone, and if he just won't take food from you, you may have to force feed him until he's eating well on his own.
keep us updated on his progress


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## camken

thank you altgirl.
I think that when you have to take on something like this that you havent done before it is really just a lack of confidence! every time i look at him im like "should he be doing that, what is this, is this right...etc" because i just dont have any previous experience to compare it to!!

I dont have a bigger cage at the moment, but i do have a small bathroom that i can kit out with perches and food bowls. but what about heat? at this stage does he still need to be kept warm? it is summer here so it isnt cold and he is fully feathered.

when i feed him he always starts to shake- not in a convulsing way, but like a cold shiver. but i dont think he's cold. i think he's scared- could this be?

is his keel the breastbone? if so, then i do always feel it and thats why i think he's thin because i can feel it straight away.
the only other birds ive ever cared for are baby pigeons- which are plump little guys- fat actually!!hehehe. are starling babys meant to be thinner and more petite, because he definately is. he just feels quite boney and insubstantial.

what ive now started to do is when he doesnt open his mouth anymore (after about 2-3 small mouthfulls) i open it a bit myself and put the brush (im using a soft pointed paint brush which seems to be working wonders) in his mouth and that triggers a feeding response- but im not sure when to stop. is he eating it because he's stil hungry or because its triggered an autmatic response? aaarrrgh so many questions!!

also, he has now taken to pecking at the brush a bit also, which tells me your right and he may well eat a bit on his own.

thanks for your help and sorry about the LONG posts!!!


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## TAWhatley

Hi Camken,

I've been looking to see if you had gotten onto Starling-Talk and doesn't look like you've been able to get there yet. Keep trying/waiting.

At the age your starling is, I don't think you could possibly get enough nutrition in with the paint brush method. I would start gently opening the beak if the bird is not gaping and putting pea sized bits of food at the back of the mouth and letting the bird swallow. On the right side of the starling's neck, you should be able to see an area plump up with food. At the age your's is right now, I'd try to get that to be about the size of a grape or better. Do what altgirl has suggested as food as these are easy to feed by hand. I do now think that this bird is not getting enough nutrition.

Baby starlings are not as substantial as baby pigeons but at a much younger age/stage than yours, baby starlings are quite little lumps! Yours is getting to the point of becoming a "real" bird, and they do slim and trim down, but I think yours might be a bit on the thin side.

I'm going to see if I can get a Starling-Talk admin or two here or get you into Starling-Talk ASAP.

You are doing a great job .. keep it up .. more help is on the way!

Terry


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## Ronni

Hi Camken. I'm one of the moderators from Starling Talk, and I hope I can be of some help. If this baby is fully feathered, then he shouldn't need extra heat at this point. Starlings normally start to fly anywhere from 17 to 21 days of age, so it would be a good idea to have him in a good sized flight cage very soon.

It does sound as if he's not getting quite enough to eat. It may be several weeks before he starts to eat on his own, and will need you to feed him at least once every 1-2 hours. He should be getting at least 1/4 cup a day of a dog/cat food based mixture. Don't give him any seeds, starlings cannot digest them. Dog or cat food is the right basic food to use, but other things must be added. Egg is a complete protein, and one egg (boiled or scrambled) should be added to every 2 cups of soaked dog/cat kibble. The calcium also needs to be corrected. You should be able to get plain calcium carbonate tablets from any pharmacy - add 750 mg (crushed) to every 2 cups of soaked dog/cat kibble. Some dark green and dark orange veggies can also be fed, along with a little finely chopped fruit like apple or red grape. Mealworms should never be used, they can cause problems for starlings, and are only useful for training young starlings to catch their own food when release is an option.

It is pretty well impossible to raise a single starling baby for release. There is no way to teach it survival skills, and it will have very little chance in the wild. Most people believe that such skills are instinctive, but in fact they are taught by the parent birds. Starlings make wonderful companion birds, is there a possibility that you can give him a forever home?


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## TAWhatley

Thank you, Ronni! We really appreciate the help of the Starling-Talk board when we need it here!

Terry


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## camken

wow guys, thanks so much for your replies- i really dont know what id do without this forum!!!
Captain Jack Sparrow- yes thats his name!!- is doing pretty well today. I managed to get a much bigger cage from a friend. Its not huge, but it is much bigger than what he had before. he's already sitting on the perches!! Ive put in some soaked kibble and a water bath, but he hasnt gone for it yet. but he is definately pecking the food that i put in front of him more and more instead of waiting for me to put it into his mouth.
he is gaining weight every day, but very little- 2-5 grams per day. But in his new cage today he seems to be eating a lot better- but expending more energy! I do feed him about every hour, and he eats about the size of a small sized grape. 
today he's eated about 35grams of food- but its not nearly 1/4 cup. from tomorrow im really gonna attempt to feed him more. I think i'll feed him on the hour, and then maybe force a little down on the 1/2 hours so that he has time to digest.

but on a positve note he's really not lethargic anymore and is changing shape and becoming more "starling like" every day.

I will investigate the possibility of keeping him, or the next time I go to Cape Town I can maybe take him to a sanctuary- i'll see when the time comes.


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## sharon_46

Camken,
Hi, I'm Sharon - one of the other Starling Talk Moderators. The advice Ronni gave you is perfect. I'll only add that if you do not have a pharmacy nearby, or a close source for the calcium supplement, I'll bet you can find some Tums antacid tablets. It doesn't matter what flavor they are, but I find my birds prefer the fruit ones when I've had to use them. The Tums container will tell you how much calcium is in each tablet, so you can use one or two, or cut one in half, whatever it takes to make the 750 mg of calcium for the recipe.
I know you found the main Starling Talk website, but just in case you didn't see this section regarding the necessary diet for baby starlings here is the link: http://www.starlingtalk.com/babycare.htm
We will be watching for your first post on Starling Talk, but in the meantime we will monitor this thread at Pigeon Talk to be sure we can answer your questions and offer as much help as possible.
Good luck with this baby, if you haven't already, you will fall in love with it!

Thanks Terry for the "heads up", it usually takes a couple of days or so to be able to post on the ST Message Board.

Soft Feathers, Sharon


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## altgirl35

ronni why would mealworms cause problems for starlings??? all experienced wildlife rehabbers feed mealworms and waxworms?? some feed them exclusively, it's one of the most important foods for them to eat when it comes to surviving in the wild, same with seeds, starlings eat seeds and nuts in the wild. she won't be able to find eggs and pet kibble in the wild
i also have to say that camken should give this bird every chance to live in the wild instead of turning her into a pet, she deserves her birthright to be free.
sounds like this bird has a good chance because she's not overly imprinted and if raised properly and handling is kept to a minimum she will be fine.


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## sharon_46

Meal worms are mostly fat and are definitely not a good source of complete protein for a bird that depends on a HUGE variety of insects to grow and survive. Additionally, the hard substance that forms the shell/exoskeleton on insects is not digestible and in large quantities, over time can clog the Starling digestive tract. The diet we have given has raised thousands of starlings, and is the diet we, who have pet starlings, depend on to keep our birds in optimum health. Yes, rehabbers use meal worms and wax worms to help train releasable starlings to find their natural foods in the wild. But a good rehabber DOES NOT depend on them to provide a complete diet. Altgirl, if you are really interested in how to care for a starling go to this website http://www.starlingtalk.com/ and study the information there. There are years of experience behind the information we are giving to Camken, and Terry would not have asked us to come here with that information if she didn't feel it was valid.
As to imprinting, it is not reversible, and you will find information about it on that website as well, and also here http://www.starlingtalk.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2540
A bird that cannot be raised with others of it's kind, in the same age range does not stand much chance in the wild. Survival skills for starlings are LEARNED from the parent birds, and other adult birds in the flock. A baby that doesn't have the opportunity to learn these skills is doomed to starvation, dehydration and a slow agonizing death, unless of course a predator gets it first.
Ronni and I are only trying to help Camken here while she is waiting for her membership in the Starling Talk Message Board to be activated.

Soft Feathers, Sharon - Starling Talk Moderator


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## altgirl35

mealworms actually are nearly 45 percent protien and and a bit lower in fat than eggs around 29 percent, and i always feed omnivores a variety of foods.
i wasn't trying to be disagreeable, i was curious to learn your opinion, as federally permitted wildlife rehabilitator specializing in songbirds and seagulls i'm always curious to hear about what works for others and why they think it works.
i tend to follow nwra's guidlines, i have found the fons diet to work great for most songbirds but as you know there is always room for improvement, and we all seek out ways to improve the quality of care we give.
all baby birds will imprint to an extent if there was no hope of release or survival because of that none of us would be doing what we do, there are things that can be done to help them devleop into the wild creatures they are, i get visits daily from many who are doing great year after year, sometimes with a mate and thier young.
before i was permitted your website helped me save 100's and i thank you for it, sorry if i offended


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## TAWhatley

I don't think anyone is upset or offended here .. just some differing opinions and protocols. I think it is fine for us to discuss these differences as long as we are all civil to one another and willing to open our minds to the possibilities that another member has presented. Obviously everyone has been perfectly civil here, so let the discussions continue as long as they stay that way.

I, personally, had asked Ronni and Sharon to come here and offer their help and advice when it appeared that it would be some time before Camken could get onto Starling-Talk. This all happened late-ish last night and was in no way a "put down" to you, altgirl .. I was just late getting on and realized that we probably weren't going to be able to give enough help/advice here for Camken and the little starling .. thus the call for help went out and was answered.

I appreciate the help of everyone who is posting here and most of all to Camken who is actually doing the caregiving for this bird.

Terry


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## camken

hi guys

sorry ive been AWOL for a while!
But i have some excellent news- Jack just went from strenght to strength and it was just amazing to see how his body changed in just one day!!
he was hopping around his cage and even trying to fly quite a lot. I think that he was actually eating enough because he was thriving- i was just being a worried mom!!
anyway, this morning he hitched a lift with a friend to Cape Town where he is now being cared for by the World of Birds. they receive over 10 birds a day during this period, so he's in good hands.
i made sure that i didnt handle him at all unless absolutely necessary, so he is completely wild and should be able to be released. He is so wild that yesterday I tried to catch him to get some dried food off his beak- he completely freaked out and even tried to bite me!!! theres no love for humans there!!
I miss him already, but there was no way that I could provide the correct environment for him here, he just wouldnt have had a big enough cage, and im not a fan of birds in cages anyway.
so hopefully soon he'll be free and happy!
thanks so much for your help, if it wasnt for this site i would have been force feeding a starling on seeds and earthworms!!


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## karijo

Camken, it sounds like you did a great job helping out the little Starling! I just stumbled upon this thread and instantly had a flash back to about 12 years ago when I lived in New York and had a bathtub FULL of baby and young adult starlings. Seemed I couldn't walk out the door without a baby or injured starling falling at my feet!

What a noisy, rowdy, unpleasant bunch they were!!!
I swear, I had baby hawks that were less of a handful than those starlings.
(funny, now that I have pidgies I don't think I would want to rehab _any_ raptors... *grumble* those creeps are on their own!! LOL)

Congrats again on doing such a good job with the baby!


-Kari Jo


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## sharon_46

Camken,
That is the very best news  Ronni and I have been wondering and worrying about how you were doing with the little Starling and now we can all smile. You've done a really good thing, not everybody in this world cares enough to help a tiny life in need - it makes you very special. I am so glad Terry found us and we were able to help.

Soft Feathers, Sharon


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## altgirl35

yay! i'm so glad you did such a good job and he gets to be with others and be a free bird, so proud of you!


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