# Eye-ring condition indicative of anything ????



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi all.

I picked up the sick pidge which Elizabethy was trying to get from ACC.

...he's a big guy...a big King...not really particularly tame at that....

....he is on heat and he will go to vet tom'w...he seems pretty with-it and alert.

But...I noticed this around his eyes...is this anything ? :


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Some birds just have very large eye ceres. Unless it appears swollen or there is a discharge, it's probably just fine. Looks OK to me from the picture. Thank you so much for helping this pigeon. I hope s/he will be OK.

Terry


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I was wondering this myself, I have white birds and some have a redder and larger conjuctiva, I think that is what it is called, and i thought something was wrong there, but a closer look and some just have more tissue and pigment around the eye than others, good to know their fine....


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi and thanks for the reply. My concern is, it isn't just a larger eye cere...there seems to be tiny bumpy nodules all around the eye...same color as the eye patch.

isn't this what pox looks like ????


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jaye said:


> Hi and thanks for the reply. My concern is, it isn't just a larger eye cere...there seems to be tiny bumpy nodules all around the eye...same color as the eye patch.
> 
> isn't this what pox looks like ????


I think pox is a yellow crusty type leison, I would'nt think it would be, but lets see what others have to say....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'll try to get somes pics of pigeons that have large and bumpy eye ceres. The pigeon in this thread still looks OK to me as far as the eyes go. Pox would show up as a yellowish/brownish growth even on pinkish/reddish skin.

Here are a couple of pictures of what pox lesions look like:



















Terry


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2008)

heres some pics on this site ,though not good ones of pigeons with larger eye ceres , some strains just have them larger then others as in the trenton strains which includes males with larger wattles too http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Pigeons/AmerTrent/BRKAmerTrent.html


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Jaye said:


> Hi and thanks for the reply. My concern is, it isn't just a larger eye cere...there seems to be tiny bumpy nodules all around the eye...same color as the eye patch.
> 
> isn't this what pox looks like ????



Hi Jaye,



Are the Pigeon's Ceres the same on both Eyes?



Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*OK - Here's A Couple Of Big, Bumpy Eye Ceres*

Both these guys were perfectly healthy but had huge eye ceres with lots of bumps (not to mention their wattles!)

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow...thanks, folks. 

OK....so, no it doesn't look like pox...it's not angry-looking or yellowish at all. Thanks for those pox pics (well...sort of thanks, if y'know what I mean).

Phil....yes, exact same condition...he's symmetrical !!!!

Finally, TA and Lokota....yeah...his eye patches look a lot like those pigeons in your pix...so I guess it just might be his breed...albeit I have never seen a King with those sort of ceres (albeit...perhaps he's NOT a King (?) )

Anyway...another oddity which my GF noticed was that...his wings are partially clipped...some of his primaries. I don't believe SF ACC does that sort of thing....so I am really puzzled as to where he came from. If he was a loft bird, he probably wouldn't be clipped. But he's NOT a house bird...he certainly is a cantankerous fellow and doesn't like human handling much at all.....kind of amazing that he survived well enough to be brought into ACC....because his flying ability is incredibly compromised.

Health update: he has been isolated from my other birdies and has been on heat all day. He really isn't acting sick or tired at all. Has remained on his feet most all of the time. Very alert....can't tell how much he has eaten as he keeps on dumping his dishes all over the cage (!)


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jaye,

This bird was a dog training bird .. clipped wings and also a big breed that doesn't fly well .. combine the size of the bird and clipped wings and you got yourself a perfect dog training bird. Or perhaps was a pet that the owner wanted to make sure that it wouldn't escape.

Terry


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

"can't tell how much he has eaten as he keeps on dumping his dishes all over the cage"
what kind of dish are you using to feed him with?
try getting the ones you can clip or bolt to the side of the the cage wire
or try using small ceramic bowls.
I use those in my nest boxes 
I got mine from the dollar stroe for a buck a peice


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> Jaye,
> 
> This bird was a dog training bird .. clipped wings and also a big breed that doesn't fly well .. combine the size of the bird and clipped wings and you got yourself a perfect dog training bird. Or perhaps was a pet that the owner wanted to make sure that it wouldn't escape.
> 
> Terry


Could be....I dunno, though....it was found in the City...but I suppose the cruelty of target birds knows no boundaries, eh ?.....he certainly is an unlikely pet....he's just too hand-shy to be a pet.....

ston3d...yes, I tried that...he likes making a game of those clip-on bowls (!)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye said:


> Could be....I dunno, though....it was found in the City...but I suppose the cruelty of target birds knows no boundaries, eh ?.....he certainly is an unlikely pet....he's just too hand-shy to be a pet.....
> 
> ston3d...yes, I tried that...he likes making a game of those clip-on bowls (!)


The dog training would explain the ornery attitude. I love ornery birds and I'll take this one if we can find a car train coming to Portland.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> Both these guys were perfectly healthy but had huge eye ceres with lots of bumps (not to mention their wattles!)
> 
> Terry


 Go to this web site and you will see some realy big eye ceres on the BARB PIGEON http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Pigeons/Barbs/BRKBarb.html .GEORGE


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

OUCH lol
they look like little pigeon boxers lmao


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

StoN3d said:


> OUCH lol
> they look like little pigeon boxers lmao



thats funny.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Jaye said:


> Wow...thanks, folks.
> 
> OK....so, no it doesn't look like pox...it's not angry-looking or yellowish at all. Thanks for those pox pics (well...sort of thanks, if y'know what I mean).
> 
> Phil....yes, exact same condition...he's symmetrical !!!!





Hi Jay,



Oh good...just slightly unusual shaped but 'healthy' Ceres then, which happens...




> Health update: he has been isolated from my other birdies and has been on heat all day. He really isn't acting sick or tired at all. Has remained on his feet most all of the time. Very alert....can't tell how much he has eaten as he keeps on dumping his dishes all over the cage (!)




Well, clean the cage every night before bed...use light color or white Towell for the Cage bottom...turn the cloth over night two, then new cloth night three...so each time there's a fresh clean surface...


Easy to count and evaluate poops then, any time from morning till night...each day.


Poops are the best way of evaluating how much a Bird is eating...and how they are processing it.



Good luck..!



Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Pigeon Boxers ??*



StoN3d said:


> OUCH lol
> they look like little pigeon boxers lmao


I'm not sure I'm getting this post .. are you calling those two pigeons of mine boxers?    .
Would that be because they have "cauliflower" eye rings and nose wattles?

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

george simon said:


> Go to this web site and you will see some realy big eye ceres on the BARB PIGEON http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Pigeons/Barbs/BRKBarb.html .GEORGE


There was a Barb at the Pageant .. think it was John Heppner's bird .. truly an amazing looking pigeon. I don't think I got a pic of it .. wish I would have!

Terry


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting this post .. are you calling those two pigeons of mine boxers?    .
> Would that be because they have "cauliflower" eye rings and nose wattles?
> 
> Terry


yes LOL
little UFC pigeons


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Interesting stuff going on.....*

Hi again, all. OK, so I took Augustus (yep) to the avian vet and he got a workup...phys exam, bloodtest, fecal. 

He really is acting healthy...but my vet said that she was VERY concerned about him not apparently eating or drinking. They tube fed him there and also hydrated him....and I took him home. Over the next 24 hrs. I tried every conceivable bird food I could think of....everything from hen scratch to white rice to parrot pellets...all shapes and sizes. He apparently took none of it...given that his poops are very, very few and far between.

So, yesterday afternoon...realizing that a day had passed since his tube feeding at the vet...i mixed up some baby bird formula and gave it to him via syringe.

He took the syringe immediately. Opened up his beak and just ate, ate, ate.

So...here we have:

~ Bird is afraid of humans.

~ His wingfeathers have been messed with....and is a terrible flyer regardless.....

~ He's a BIG King.

~ He seemingly doesn't know how to forage, or even recognize food as food, water as water.

~ He (apparently) only recognizes gavage/tube/syringe feeding.

Ssssssooooooo...what do we have here ? 

(I have my theory, I'd like to hear what some of you think, first).


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jaye,



...may have been used in Dog training...or some ritual-things...




Seed-Pops would be good...if he will let you open his Beak so you can put in Seeds.


Lap time on a towell, doing Seed-Pops...


Good luck..!



Phil
l v


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh boy!...perhaps if his test come back neg, he can learn to peck with some other pigeons eating...you know monkey see monkey do kinda thing. or leave the seed in with him and you peck at it right before you feed him his babyfood, maybe he is still really young and did not learn the ropes good enough before he was going to be...you know what...I hate even say what he was going to be used for, but perhaps you have to be the parent now and show him the ropes....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Is he afraid of all humans or only male humans?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*"c'mon, Jake....it's...."*

I will be handing him over to Elizabethy in a few days, hopefully, since I am going on a little Vay-Cay to Oahu (this cold bizness doesn't sit well with me....)

But certainly, I think once he is among other pidgies and watches them forage, etc...he will get it. After all, that IS the way baby pidgies are weaned, isn't it ? Observation until they catch on.

So...although it is a very STRANGE situation....I don't think it's insurmountable.

Charis: Humans, period. Male or female.

Phil: I'll try that seed-popping.

OK..here's my theory:

He is what is known in these parts as a 'chinatown bird'. He's a King. People eat Kings (reprehensibly). Poultry places in chinatown here in SF sell pigeons.

He has probably never been out of a cage in his life. He has probably been only "industry-fed" with a tubefeeder. Get 'em fat fast for the slaughter.

Either he got loose and escaped...or...someone purchased him with the (well-intentioned but poorly executed) idea of "returning him to the wild".

He probably survived a few days out in the elements when someone found him and took him to ACC. 

That's my thought....

Anyway...he is eating well now, and pooping....his blood test returned normal...and his fecals will be back tom'w. Poor fella hasn't had much of a life, really, eh ?

But...he's a good guy...despite his travails...he has landed in a very good place and his life will be much better from hereon (although he probably doesn't know that yet )


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jaye said:


> He is what is known in these parts as a 'chinatown bird'. He's a King. People eat Kings (reprehensibly). Poultry places in chinatown here in SF sell pigeons.
> 
> He has probably never been out of a cage in his life. He has probably been only "industry-fed" with a tubefeeder. Get 'em fat fast for the slaughter.


You are probably quite right, Jaye. Enjoy your vacation and thanks so much for helping this pigeon!

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Update: 

Phil...the seed-popping works quite well !!! He flings out about 25% of the seeds I put in (safflower) but ingests the rest.

I have given him "outside time" from his cage the past day...in my bedroom, door closed with a space heater going. He is baffled by his spacial freedom, I think. He tended just to stay in one place most of the time; he is calmer, though.

Have been syringe-feeding about 20cc/day of Kaytee, and will continue with the seed-popping. I am handing him off to Elizabethy this weekend....so he will be amongst a whole gaggle of other Kings (barring any bad news on the last of his test results)....and in very good hands.

Thanks for the replies, all....


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

*Augustus UPDATE*

Hi All-

I've had (and still have) some kings with the big, red, bumpy eye rings and on that front, I'd say GUS (now called by me) is normal. In that first picture Jaye posted, the tissue is loose and baggy and I believe that shows dehydration. Now that he's fed and watered up, the eye rings are just red and bumpy, not so saggy. I'll post a picture one of these days.

He eats great in my loft with the other pij and also took a nice, big bath his first day here.

Charis- you like the ornery ones, huh? I'm SO looking for that SF to Portland train!


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