# WalkerPigeon friend of PlacidoPigeon ~ sick?



## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

WalkerPigeon was introduced in the 'broken leg and maybe foot' thread (<photographed in the pigeonpot). 
Yesterday morning Walker was on the garage roof, however chooses to walk about the yard... and has been resting in the pigeonpot, as well as on the ground for the last few days. 
Yesterday we had a pretty strong storm / there was shelter for Walker ~ however I was away and don't know Walkers whereabouts during the storm. Last evening after the storm I observed Walker walking about the yard and looking to the garage roof, also appeared unsure as to how to get to the roof top. I walked about the yard and chatted with Walker, who eventully sat down. Soon I was a foot from Walker who was still resting on the ground. ~ Little eyes watching me, yet dozing off, and seemed damp and chilled. It was still damp and a bit cool out. My instincts told me to catch Walker and set him up in the dry garage. Walker went limp in my hands and stayed in my arms as I set up the over night digs. 
This morning I thought I'd see what Walker wanted to do. Thinking maybe Walker had been pulling all-nighters and was tired. Now that shelter had been provided maybe Walker was feeling rested... So I lifted up the cage to see what the plan was... Thus far a short walk in the garage and still resting. I checked the poops etc and I think all is okay, maybe a bit softer than just pushing it to the side and it holding its form... some however held form better than others. 
Eating and drinking water... I've seen Walker eat and drink. Maybe not as much as the others that visit.
Walker most of all seems tired. Sick? Old...? 
Thoughts? 
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sure doesn't sound good. Can you get any supplemental heat on him like a heat lamp? You should probably start by looking down the inside of Walker's beak for any sticky saliva, yellow buttons or foul odor.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Link to the other thread about Placido and introducing Walker:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/broken-leg-and-maybe-foot-28424.html

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

No 'stink' that I've yet noticed, however will check again. Sticky saliva and Yellow buttons? sorry this is new.
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There are a few common ailments for pigeons like Trichomoniasis (commonly called "canker"), Coccidiosis, Paratyphoid, Worms and a few others.

Canker is a disease that's caused by a flagellating protozoa (it's highly mobile) which has a typical symptom of the formation of yellow, cheesy buttons inside the mouth and throat.

Coccidiosis is a disease caused by another protozoa that's not so mobile and the symptoms are mostly where you can't see them although it'll start affecting the bird's behavior significantly. Poops can get progressively worse and watery with a weird odor.

Worms will be very similar in that the bird starts losing weight and going downhill. Sometimes the poops get more liquidy, too.

Paratyphoid is a Salmonellosis that can occur in many different ways in various parts of the body depending on the bird and the strain of bacteria.

Most of these are treated with different medications although there are some that will treat Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis at the same time.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Ah... thank you ever so much. 
I can't say that I see /smell any of these symptoms (at least right now). It does appear that appetite is less ~ as I didn't notice a drastic change quantity / or mess from what was there earlier to now... 
Walker didn't move around much today / Walker didn't go outside today - stayed in the garage. Granted I didn't chase the lil' one out of the garage. I did show the exit etc... Clearly wasn't interested.
Walker is dry and isn't shaking anymore.
I was able to set the 'cage' over Walker for bed. <This way I can keep the light on and provide a roof to block direct light... and provides safety should a squirrel get in.
Walker is tucked in for the night. 
Thank you Pidgey ~ any other thoughts... I will of course continue to watch for the symptoms / ailments mentioned before.
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Update:
Walker was not happy about being caught today and had far more energy and varied dance moves ~ however none that flew.
Walker is back in the secretgarden in the newly renovated PigeonTent which comes with ones own PigeonPot. Walker found his pot and appears happier. I too picked up some 'dove' mix which walker gobbled up...
He didn't stink, nor did I see any signs of yellow buttons or sticky saliva. Just walks and runs... didn't even seem interested in flying. I just wonder if the wings are somehow injured and need rest... I'll keep an eye. One digit does appear injured ~ However this might be an older injury.
I did pick up 'VitaFLight' - 13 vitamins / food supplement. Should I give this to Walker? 
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tell you what--get Walker again and start feeling all of the joints in both wings. They should feel fairly bony with very little padding or softness. If you find that one is puffy versus the same joint on the other side then we might want to get you some antibiotics like Baytril to start him on. Also feel the range of motion of both wings upward over the back--just rotate the wings one at a time and compare.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I will attempt this minyana as all are tucked in for the night. In the meantime ~ here is Walker in zPigeonTent&Pot.
Thank you for the advice.
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I was able to check Walker for swelling and can't say that I noticed any swelling. I did open the wings and felt around and both wings appear the same (at least to me). 
I'm not sure that Walker has eaten since last night... I'll keep an eye for this and water consumption. I took a photo of poops should that be of interest. The older were dry and the new seem a bit wet ~ but then I haven't spent a lot of time examining / other than cleaning-up in 'aisle 6'. 
For now Walker appears content to hang out in his pot. 
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might try calling around and seeing if you can find some "Sulmet" at a feed store or pet supply store near you. It's a cheap sulfa drug that could catch Coccidiosis and a few other things.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

After various google searches / speaking with stores / avian vets and so forth I found a feed store about 20 - 25 miles from here that should carry sulmet. whew... Unfortunately I can't get there until tomorrow... anything else you can think of that might be of use?
(and) Thank you Pidgey ~ I and Walker truly appreciate your assistance.
~ 4zp.
... also Walker has been eating today.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm not finding Sulmet anywhere in Minneapolis / Lake Elmo / Stillwater etc. Is there something else I should look for? Walker is still in zpot in ztent. Appears comfortable, not shaking, is eating...
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

4zpigeons said:


> I'm not finding Sulmet anywhere in Minneapolis / Lake Elmo / Stillwater etc. Is there something else I should look for? Walker is still in zpot in ztent. Appears comfortable, not shaking, is eating...
> Thank you.
> ~ 4zp.


I just sent you a PM.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sorry, didn't see this one again at the right time, apparently...

Let's see what Renee has up her sleeve.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I've now been in contact via email with Renee's friend... (thank you) and have found Sulmet via the web. 
Walker appears much the same, just hanging out... enjoying the day.
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

An Update: Walker has moved from the tent to the suite (approx.28h,28w,58l) and appears much happier. ~ The pot has also made the move. Too Walker and PlacidoP can see one another... Which they seem to enjoy.
In recent days I've been able to observe Walker for longer periods = I'm now thinking Walkers 'illness' is more of a flight issue - I see one wing droop a bit more than the other. Something I probably missed when I first met Walker. Walker is starting to stretch, lift and move both wings / something I haven't seen until recent days.
On Walkers more 'personal' health - Eating, drinking and personal doings look better than the earlier days.
Until...
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

An update: I feel horrible and embarrased about this... As Walker earned his name for walking about the yard I missed his foot... he has a limp. 
I apologize for not knowing what to call these areas - even after looking at the skeletal drawings = currently lost.
I believe when I first handled Walker I did a poor job and missed this. 
Yesterday I handled Walker to find his left wing springs back and the right is slow. The right wing also droops a bit more than the left. There also appears to be more of a bump on the right wing side. If the photo shows anything the feathers are slightly lifted on the one side. When resting both wings appear to fall out more than I've seen on other resting pigeons. Again I may have missed this because Walker was always resting in the pigeonpot...
Sorry about the covered head - Walker expressed strong flapping when seeing open sky... = both wings are mobile. The right is simply weaker.
For the little left foot and ankle: The ankle appears swollen and the bottom (like a cats pad) appears swollen. Hopefully the photos show this. I did attempt photos of the bottom of the foot / tried cropping etc - but they just weren't clear. ~ I also did a closer view of the wing and again unclear.
Walker is no longer hanging in his pot / prefers the ground. I'm thinking its too high and difficult. I added stepping stones / but no interest. I've added some softness to his suite / however Walker prefers the ground and to prop up against the wall. Stays close to the food / water... Still quite trusting - even after my neglect... recent probing and suite cleaning.
Hopefully I'll have better news next time. As always if you have any advice for Walkers benefit I'd love to hear.
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

An Update: Today again I washed Walkers foot (feet)... The one is still swollen and Walker still limps. However, eating and drinking and looks more alert than when we first met. Unfortunately the foot appears to be quite uncomfortable. I've put linens under to soften the floor which seems to help. Is there anything more that I should do?
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Is Walker still (or ever was) on Sulmet? You probably need a different antibiotic for that foot problem .. the foot soaks are good, but probably not enough to resolve things.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've been in and out too much lately (my lights are on but nobody's home) and so missed this. Okay, you want to get Walker on some Baytril (Enrofloxacin; the veterinary version of Ciprofloxacin, which is used in us and is just as good if you can get it) for starters. You'd have to either get it from a vet or from a very few pigeon supply houses like here:

http://vitakingproducts.com/storefronta.htm

Click on the Antibiotics and scroll down to the drugs that say "Enroxil" or "Enrofloxan". The 10% liquid is by far the best buy but you don't need anywhere near that much. It's either that or one of us is going to have to send you some quickly. Can you get some from a vet?

Pidgey


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## gingerpoo (Jul 31, 2008)

as far as his wing, being an old break there is nothing that can be done. but it makes it all the more important for him to have both feet to stand on, otherwise he may develop bumble foot and other foot related problems.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you... After having my 'local' sulmet search / avian vet search I chose to order the 10% enrofloxan liquid... Not that I want to have a use for it ~ but I do have feathered friends that may need it in the future. I also see sulmet at this site. 
Thank you for the link... and help ~ always appreciated!
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Update: zAntibiotics arrived a few days ago. It was very exciting around here / and they threw in a sample of red grit... Much cheering from the infirmary and zsecretgarden. 
Walker has been taking the antibiotic ~ A few days ago Walker was perched on top of a brick and today he was jumping down and out of my way and walking quickly to the otherside of the cage < as opposed to staying on perch. After closing the door, Walker quickly walked back to the brick and hopped up with the assistance of a flap or two. 
AND the swelling has noticeably gone down. Very exciting!
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, that's wonderful! We need all the happy endings we can get around here.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

So very true! I'll keep you posted.
~4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Update...:
Walker is still here and the foot / ankle looks good. Eating and getting around. Appears healthier than past days... But not healthy enough to fly. Still limps a fair bit. 
Walker has a friend ~ IndiGO. IndiGO showed up one day in a rain storm. Waiting for me by the back door. I brought IndiGO in from the storm for the day and evening and tried letting s/he go the following day. IndiGO wouldn't go / wouldn't fly... another walking pigeon. 
I since turned Walkers suite into a duplex and there they co-existed until IndiGO remodeled and joined Walker. I've since remodled and they have 'lofts' of there own. They continue to share the space and seem to be fine. On occassion I give IndiGO the option to leave... and won't. Too when I try to catch s/he there is a lot of grunting... and this bird gets so far out of my reach.
Interesting... We'll see. I'm remodeling the garage, insulating etc ~ creating a safe dry space for the cooler months should any to all decide to stay for awhile longer.
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sometimes, they're left with inflammatory damage from an infection that can take months to heal or fix. I've treated birds with Paratyphoid or other illness boils that the physical joints had enlarged. I've got one bird that's taken over a year to "remodel" the joint to something approaching its former self so these things happen. You probably ought to run IndiGO through an antibiotic course, too.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

IndiGO actually showed up around the time the antibiotics arrived = receiving the antibiotic. An interesting bird. Really stays in one place. Clearly eats and moves about, however returns to the same spot (= poops pile up = easy clean up / should I be permitted). Too, I understand that this might be normal ~ I've just never seen it before... and yes poops appear normal.
Antibiotic: I followed the directions for the days noted on the bottle. I shouldn't be repeating this for any extended period / right? They are eating, drinking etc.. Swelling is gone.
Winter home: I've been working in the garage ~ adding insulation and filling holes with concrete... Still shopping for a good 'heat source'... etc. No matter making space for those that should need a winter home. ~ Owly was comfortable last winter... I just want to spruce all up and create a better space should I have more than one resident this winter... 
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You're likely to have a very nasty winter, too. Birds who have been badly sick often have especial troubles in winter and often need supplemental heat. I've got one or two that I have to watch closely and will often bring in during the colder stints.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes... I still wonder why I continue to live here... could be the pigeons. 
Last year (under a locking door and varied schedule - so neighbors in my building wouldn't see) I ran an electric heater and a heat lamp to keep Owly comfortable. This year I've been adding insulation etc... and a new heat source (possibly two) I'm thinking of a heated 'puppy' type bed for the underside / floor (<Opinion?)... Also do you know of any special lights (bulbs) that can stand the 'cold' outdoors that would give 'healthier' light? Last year I just used a basic 'heat lamp' bulb.
I'm also adding an insulated barrier to separate from auto emmissions and to concentrate the heat ~ Clearly I'm looking to keep the heat concentrated for the residents... Which very well could be Walker and IndiGO ~ PlaCida is still thinking about it. 
*Eyes will of course be watching to see if 'in home care' will be needed.
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just be very careful not to burn the place down. I have a friend who literally burnt the place down with some kind of lamp for heat for a rescued puppy. Tragic.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Yikes! As in the past I'll be ever so careful. 
I'm sorry to hear about your friends experience ~ How horrible. 
Was the heat lamp like the kind used in a 'chicken coop'?
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I think it was just a droplight.

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I see... thank you. 
No matter to be on the cautious side with bulbs etc... I've used 'chicken coop' type lamps / that which is used for z lil' chicks in the 'barn'~ I also make sure to keep fabric (flammables) away from the bulb.
If I might pick your brain for thought...? What do you think of the heated dog bed as a floor (or roof) for a 'winter' setting? Any other suggestions for heat sources? I used a portable radiator last year with the lamp. It was okay, but not the greatest... (and expensive to run)
Thank you!
~ 4zp.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Got a picture of your stuff so far? Down here in Okie-Home-Ahh!, it doesn't get quite as nippy as y'all see so I'm not used to having to deal with it. Couldn't you just give them the back bedroom for a few months?

Pidgey


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

I wish it was as easy as giving up a room... Unfortunately unless they can sleep with me and my cat it's a problem... Plus after you read the following you may side with the garage.
So I hate to say / embarrased - as well I know this sounds ridiculous and somewhat unhealthy...note> its not always this bad ~ However, I often end up with a hat on head / two pairs of pyjama pants and shirts and possibly a sweatshirt for added warmth... and lets not forget the socks and layers of blankets. The floor under me (basement) isn't insulated / and I don't have carpet... etc. Much to do... its a building from around 1914. The space under me was the storage room for coal. There too is a large 'fresh air' (aka frozen air) vent. Currently I'm working on getting my building to provide a heat source for the common areas of the basement / building... In the meantime... The garage I have more control over. Hmmnn ~ I should probably move out there. heh ~ As it is I turn on the oven for extra warmth. oops I will admit I gave the portable radiator to Owly last winter.  
No pictures yet. I still have concrete to lay ~ hopefully tomorrow as weather has been nice these last few days. The insulation is somewhat up... Not too exciting to see ~ Unless you like silver walls. 
Currently everyone is still enjoying the outdoors living in zsecret garden.
~ 4zp.


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

The latest update: All are ever so content in zsecretgarden... Looking and acting in brighter spirits however not ready to take on the world. IndiGo in particular who has had many an option to fly has declined on quite a few occasions. Seems to enjoy the life of having meals catered... etc. PlaCida’s foot still looks crumpled and s/he still limps… and Walker does spread s/hes wings, but still limps and the wings fall when not in use ~ A charming little group. No matter, all have bright eyes, are alert and eating etc.
So... After re-visiting my last post... (why do I live here) / Working further on the garage... Having the experience of my neighbors 100 gallon fish tank flood into / destroy one of my ceilings = they have had to replace my ceiling... = me having to clear the room out which included bookshelves filled with books... Luckily the water just missed the two computers (whew!)… In this time I too was one of the proud receivers of one of those ‘colds' that forces you into bed for more than 48hrs. Then soon afterward I received a petition from… yes. From PlaCida, Walker, IndiGo ~ signed by Owly and the rest of the bed headed, speckled, reds... blue barred ferals, sparrows, finches, cardinals... that frequent zsecretgarden... I called out 'uncle'... enough is enough... I get the point. = I consolidated books / and continued to get rid of that which wasn't deemed necessary. All of this created space ~ or rather a better use of what space there is. Space and an extra bookshelf… = converting a bookshelf into a winter home for the 3 named on the petition (zPigeonPot trio) should they need to stay. 
Yes... a bookshelf. I have deepened it as though I have very deep important 'art' books... aka coffee table books. Currently 2'd / 2'h / 3'w. They have little beds up above so they can be up a bit. I know not a huge space. But these guys can't yet fly. Plus (shhh) if everyone can get along they can come out for a room 'run'... ~ my cat would not be an active participant. 
I hope this space sounds okay. I haven't yet any photos to share, but when I do I will... 
~ 4zp...


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