# electronic clocks or the old standerd for racing?



## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

I DON'T RACE MY BIRDS BUT I HEAR ALOT OF TALK ABOUT CLOCKING THE BIRDS.THE WAY IT'S EXPLAINED TO ME IS THAT THE ELECTRONIC CLOCKS TAKE AWAY FROM PIGEON RACING.SOME SAY ELECTRONICS IS A BETTER WAY TO SEE WHICH BIRD IS FASTER PROVIDING THE HANDY CAP FOR DISTANCE.I JUST DON'T KNOW,I FEEL THAT THE OWNER PLAYS A GREAT PART IN BREEDING TRAINING AND TAKING CARE OF HIS LOFT AND BIRDS,PUT ALL OF THAT TOGETHER,WITH THE SKILLS OF THE OWNER TO MAKE HIS BIRDS TRAP QUICKLY TO ME IS PART OF THE RACING HISTORY.WITH THE LANDING PAD OF THE ELECTRONIC CLOCK ALL ONE'S BIRD NEEDS TO DO IS LAND ON THE LANDING BOARD AND THE RACE IS OVER.NO ONE EVEN HAS TO BE HOME YOU COULD BE OUT TO EAT DINNER AND STILL BE A WINNER.WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS QUESTION.


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

wots the point of using electronic clocks the excitment is seeing ur birds return from a race. u should clock them urselves after all the pigeons has came home from along race the least u can do is clock them by hand and hope u get a winner.

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Robert


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

we finally broke down and got an electronic clock last year.

A few reasons -- one of them being that with our white release business, there were the occasional races where we would not be home for a few minutes during the expected race return time. Our daughter's bird lost a race by 2 minutes, won the club, but missed the combine -- because we were all out -- for a period of 20 minutes. I came home and found the bird sitting on it's perch, having already eaten and drank -- which takes more than 2 minutes, I can tell you!







It was definitely in well before the 'winning' bird was clocked.

And -- electronic clocks help you tell far better what's happening during your training flights -- since you can set it to 'clock' the return of the birds from training too.

AND -- because 95% of our race club now uses electronic clocks. Yes, it does make a difference -- you do lose about 5-10 seconds when clocking manually. We don't 'go out to dinner' during a race -- we're still there, whistling a welcome and an encouraging "get inside" to the birds as they come home. It is very rare, even with the business, for there to be absolutely no one home at race time.


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

HI ROBERT,AS YOU CAN SEE I FEEL THE SAME WAY.BUT I SEE MORE AND MORE ADVERTISMENTS FOR THE ELECTRONIC CLOCKS.DO YOU THINK THE OLD WAY OF RACING WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST.


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

HI WHITEWINGCA,AS FAR AS TRAING I COULD SEE USING A CLOCK.LIKE I SAID I DON'T RACE.BUT MAY-BE HAVE ONE RACE WITH THE ELECTRONIC CLOCK AND ONE WITHOUT,I KNOW THAT CAN GET EXPENSIVE.BUT WHAT PART DOES THE FANCIER HAVE IF YOU RACE WITH THE ELECTIC CLOCK ON RACE DAY.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, for what it's worth, here's what I think. We've been racing for 2 years and bought a new electronic clock to begin with. It really depends on how the trap is built, but, if you have to chase your poor bird after it's flown it's heart out to get home, just to get the counter mark off, that's seems a little cruel to me. If your birds are trained to trap when they get home, the electronic clock is the best way to go. ALSO, some fanciers get so excited when their birds get home, they get a little rough with the bird trying to pull the countermark off of it's leg, JUST TO WIN THE RACE. We still are in the back yard watching for our birds on race day. Nothing can take the place of that. Electronic clocks are available so that IF you can't be home, you can still clock your birds, but they are not meant to take the place of you being there. It's just better for you and better for the birds. The last thing a bird wants after flying 200 or more miles is for his owner to chase him around and handle him. He just wants to be left alone and rest.


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

hi love birds,you have a good point about chasing the bird to pull the marker off.the world is not perfect,so where is the mat inside or out we can only trust.the way markers are pulled in our neck of the woods is that after the bird enters the trap he enters into a little cage just big enough for him to stand in.we have an opening on the under side of the landing board which exposes the birds leg. we reach in and place both legs in between our fingers and pull the marker to be clocked, then open the cage from inside the loft to let the bird feed and drink.i really understand both sides and enjoy reading everbodies thoughts.i guess i'm just old fashion.again thanks for your replies.


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

by the sounds of it it will b a thing of the past clocking ur birds urself my club uses hand clockers and will for a long time to com cause they take pride in there birds. You wouldn't have to chase ur birds if u trained them right i've got mine to com to me when i want.

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Robert


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Manual Or Electronic ?*

2004 was the first year I used an electronic timer. I purchased an M-1 Benzing which I am told is considered the state of the art. Once you have used one, you will never want to go back to a manual timer. A case in point was our Combine's 300 mile race this year, which is now referred to as "The Race From Hell". The birds were released Saturday morning at 8AM. I had a diploma winner clocked at 9AM on Monday morning !! I have no ideal where I was at that moment, but the ideal of sitting by the trap for three or four days, sort of takes the fun out of it. The race was finally called off after four days.
If my club or combine members want to use a manual timer because they feel it is somehow "More Sporting" that is fine with me. As far as training to trap, if they come home and sit on the roof, even a electronic timer won't fix that. 
I also find it an invaluable training tool, because I now can tell who is going straight home and trapping, and who is fooling around.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

*Electronic Clock*

I just started using one 2004 after using the countermark/manual way longer than I want to tell ya & don't ever want to go back to countermarks. It is also so much easier shipping night. Just scan the chip band & listen to what crate it goes in. Training with it is just great, as I don't have to drive dangerously fast trying to see how they came in. The only thing I see detramental is the Air Drag, chance of hanging up, & catching a wire as they slip over them in flight from the size & shape of the band. Would hope someday we could get regular bands & chip bands as light & small as our old aluminum bands were though. I still wouldn't miss a bird coming in from race, unless a stated by someone before me a 2-3 day race....


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

the future is here in clocking birds and computers. The old ways has been used for a great time. STILL works. Does take longer. And the bird has to be in the loft or the trap. Birds over the electronic can back off after clocking and sit for hours. But its the future. And more people can fly there birds now. When they have to be some where else or be at work or such. So it can bring more flyers in to the sport. Birds are trained just as good. And the thrill still is there Either way old or new. Its the sport that is enjoyed.


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

hi everybody, this is an old thread, nice to see it come back up. yes i agree that the new way of clocking can let alot more fanciers get into racing. and yes there are other things to do when there is a race on. but i would say that 99% of us will be home no matter what we are really supose to be doing. unless we were receiving a million dollars and even then i think we would rush home as soon as possible. i guess it's the sign of the times. does anybody know if they hold races where both clocks are used in the same race and is there any kind of handicap to the one with the manual clock? 
fly high and strait and keep them healthy. thanks brotherstwoloft.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The local club here The members use both. Depends on how much money you want to spend on a clock. Both cases counter marked birds win there share aginst the chipped computor clocks. But seconds count and more are going to the new type of clocks. A win is a win. no matter what type the clock is. But I would say in a few more years only the new style be at hand Thats just how its going.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Brotherstwo,

It's good to see you posting again. You know, I think some special races like the big Barcelona race require a manual clock even though you use an electronic, and some use both to clock their birds for that race. I know it's pretty complicated how they record the birds' times and there have been some controversial final results.

I believe that England does not allow the use of e-clocks and that manuals have to be 12-hole ones. You get some strong feelings on both sides. Me, I like the e-clocks and would not care to go back a wind-up. I never miss watching for the birds to come in on race day, however. And, like Warren said it's great for training so you can see who's coming on strong and who's not.

Bruce


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## pigeon george (Aug 7, 2003)

*clocking*

true new technology is every where but a lot of races do not permitt use of electronic clocks as some are set out side the loft so whene a bird lands on the landing it is clocked in and part of racing was getting the bird to trap quickly, as far as yanking the band of the bird do it once that way and the bird will surerly hesitate before trapping next race im sure the debate is endless but we do lose in order to gain


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Both Clocks ?*



brotherstwoloft said:


> hi everybody, this is an old thread, nice to see it come back up. yes i agree that the new way of clocking can let alot more fanciers get into racing. and yes there are other things to do when there is a race on. but i would say that 99% of us will be home no matter what we are really supose to be doing. unless we were receiving a million dollars and even then i think we would rush home as soon as possible. i guess it's the sign of the times. does anybody know if they hold races where both clocks are used in the same race and is there any kind of handicap to the one with the manual clock?
> fly high and strait and keep them healthy. thanks brotherstwoloft.


 Don't know if you mean that some members use manual and some use computer in the same race ? Yes, some of our members use manual and some use computer. If you mean both methods to the same loft, then what would be the point ? At our club there is a handicap using a manual clock....the member loses 10, 15 seconds or more !  

I still want to be there to call the bird in, but if I just happen to be answering the call of nature  , I still get em clocked in ! Break down, bite the bullet, and buy yourself an electronic clock ! This is 2005 not 1965, get with it !!


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hey Warren,

Call of nature  ??? Why does nature keep calling at those odd hours  ? Can't she find someone elses number to call  ?

Hi George,

I believe the AU requires that the sensor pad be at least half-way inside the loft so you still need to train your birds to trap well even with the e-clocks. It's not like you can set the pad on the roof and time them, although maybe some have tried  .


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*Where do you buy clocks...*

Where do y'all "pros" buy these clocks?

I've seen the electronic ones on Foys & Jedds, but not the mechanical ones.

Do they not make the mechanical ones anymore?? I saw some on eBay, but they're all antiques... kinda cool though. I'd be currious to see one up close to see how they work.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Zig,

I think STB still makes clocks for the UK market. I think they are sold at Boddy & Ridewood. I don't know any suppliers in the USA that carry them as they have moved to the e-clocks. The manuals aka 'wind-ups' are super cool and are truly a work of art with jeweled movements and lots of moving parts. Its like an adding machine - printing the time on a paper tape. I've seen them go for around $50 on eBay. Personally, I like the old Benzings in the oak cases. Get one and give it to your grandkid someday.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

birdy said:


> Zig,
> 
> I think STB still makes clocks for the UK market. I think they are sold at Boddy & Ridewood. I don't know any suppliers in the USA that carry them as they have moved to the e-clocks. The manuals aka 'wind-ups' are super cool and are truly a work of art with jeweled movements and lots of moving parts. Its like an adding machine - printing the time on a paper tape. I've seen them go for around $50 on eBay. Personally, I like the old Benzings in the oak cases.


I've seen several on eBay, but most are for sale out of the UK, so I'd not buy one from there as I'd assume the shipping charges would be a lot.



birdy said:


> Get one and give it to your grandkid someday.


Now why would I want to go and do that!!!??? THAT would mean I'd have to go and have some kids of my own!!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> I've seen several on eBay, but most are for sale out of the UK, so I'd not buy one from there as I'd assume the shipping charges would be a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> Now why would I want to go and do that!!!??? THAT would mean I'd have to go and have some kids of my own!!



I don't know Zig....maybe becoming a "parent" by proxy with the birth of your sweet pigeon babies may inspire you to "step up to the plate." LOL  

Linda


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The older clocks can be found at different areas. From say 50 to 100. dollars. They still do the job.


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## Jerry (Nov 21, 2003)

*Clocks on Auction*

There are a couple of this type of clocks on Pigeons4Sale.com auction site right now.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*1905 Model*

I own a 1905 model which makes it a cool hundred years old. It is a two bird timer with two pocket watches inside. I clocked birds with it in 65', yes sir, now that was the good ole days !! None of them new fangled clocks that can time up to 20 birds, and a paper to imprint the time to boot ! No sir, give me the good ole two bird timers !!


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Zig,

I currently use an Electronic Benzing Atis clock and I really like it. We used to use the older clocks as well but the counter marks and all were a pain, with the new clocks you get to enjoy seeing the birds come in and if it happens that you have to be gone for any reason your birds get clocked whether you are home or not. I know I am full of suggestions it seems like and I do appologize for that but not enough information is not good either, prior to buying a clock unless you just want to purchase them to collect, check with the club nearest you to see what type of clocks they use. Many clubs do not have people that can read the older clocks, I happen to be one that can but not all of them can do so, and some just don't want to mess with the counter marks and seals to secure the clock and all of the setting that goes with it, it really isn't that hard for those that know how but a real headache for those that don't.

Ellen


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

hi warren, so you would rather use the old fashion clocks, but you went out and bought a new one to get with it? those where the days but i guess no matter how good your birds are you can't compete with modern day
technoligy with the timer mat half way into the loft any bird is clocked in when it hits the half outside the loft, yeh bring back the good old days where trapping was a big part of the race and after all that hard work of training the fancier had to finish the race with his speed of clocking the bird. i'm not saying that the new clocks are no good in fact they are very convienent, more people can race now where the old way they had to be there to bang the bird in. all i'm saying is that the old way involved the fancier more than the clocks today. thanks and good luck.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

You know, I think even with the new electronic clock there has been very few times I wasn't home. I know one of the times we were in California and we lived in Washington and the birds were racing out of Weed, CA it was around a 450 or 500 mile race anyway we won the race and we were 800 miles away, the other members picked up our birds, took our clock in and scanned the birds in, brought our clock back plugged it in and our daughter came over watched the birds come in, she took the clock in for us and we won the race, it was a special race so we won the big trophy and we were still very excited. Now most days we are right there watching the birds come in and wouldn't miss it for anything, the birds still come down and are very jumpy and yes they don't have to drop down into a trap but they still have to go through the entrance, the antenna only is out about 4 inches from the frame of the wall but the antenna is inside of a guide box so the birds have to go inside the box to get trapped. I think the drop traps were sometimes easier as the birds once in didn't back out there was only one way in and no backing up. Both ways have their good and bad, but the bottom line is the birds are still flying all the miles to get to that entrance of the loft.

Ellen


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

hi and congradulation on your bird's victory, how much faster did he/she beat second place by. i understand what you're saying about the bird traveling all that distance, and if a club uses new clocks i would too. i just feel that banging your bird in is a big part of the race. yes the new clocks are nice but it leaves the fancier out of one of the most important part of the race. you breed you train you take care of your flock and when the big day comes you are left out of finding out who is the more skilled fancier as far as being quick and the bond he has with his bird. it's just my fondness of being part of the race. keep them healthy and fly straight, good luck on your remainding races.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Points are well taken*



brotherstwoloft said:


> hi warren, so you would rather use the old fashion clocks, but you went out and bought a new one to get with it? those where the days but i guess no matter how good your birds are you can't compete with modern day
> technoligy with the timer mat half way into the loft any bird is clocked in when it hits the half outside the loft, yeh bring back the good old days where trapping was a big part of the race and after all that hard work of training the fancier had to finish the race with his speed of clocking the bird. i'm not saying that the new clocks are no good in fact they are very convienent, more people can race now where the old way they had to be there to bang the bird in. all i'm saying is that the old way involved the fancier more than the clocks today. thanks and good luck.


You make some good points. But the reality is that future races, like the one loft races, are going electronic. Over the next decade you will see the % of electronic vs. manual increase. In time manual will be a distant memory. You can mark my words.


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## Sky Island (Aug 12, 2011)

*how to use racing clocks?*

I have an old racing clock from my grandfather and was wondering if anyone know how to turn them on? I need to change the paper belt and the ink belt and i need to know how to start it.... any advice on how to do that?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Sky Island said:


> I have an old racing clock from my grandfather and was wondering if anyone know how to turn them on? I need to change the paper belt and the ink belt and i need to know how to start it.... any advice on how to do that?


 First of all, you would have to provide the make and model as there were many different types. And second of all, I would never be able to explain in writing how to use one of those old units even if I could remember. Might be able to show you, but I would have to have it in my hands. Did your Grandfather pass on ? As he would have been the one to show you, but perhaps someone in your club can figure it out.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

brotherstwoloft said:


> hi and congradulation on your bird's victory, how much faster did he/she beat second place by. i understand what you're saying about the bird traveling all that distance, and if a club uses new clocks i would too. *i just feel that banging your bird in is a big part of the race. yes the new clocks are nice but it leaves the fancier out of one of the most important part of the race. you breed you train you take care of your flock and when the big day comes you are left out of finding out who is the more skilled fancier as far as being quick and the bond he has with his bird. *it's just my fondness of being part of the race. keep them healthy and fly straight, good luck on your remainding races.


Now that this old thread was brought back, it does bring another point to mind. Without the modern clocks, many of our club members could not race. We have Dr.'s, truck drivers, business owners, etc. who must work on race day, and we have fathers whose kids have all kinds of things that must be done on a Saturday. Just don't have the time to sit out there for hours on end waiting for a bird to come home, we got lives to attend to. Besides, if you don't use the computer clock, you can't join some clubs. So, get with it man, this is 2011 and not 1955 !!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

We have a small club and have to haul our own races. My turn comes up on the 200 mi race, there is no way I will get home befor my birds. I would hate to lose the race cause they beat me home.
Dave


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I never thought I would say it... but a e-clock has been the best thing I have ever bought for pigeon racing! Jeff


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Interesting to read this old thread about manual vs. electronic clocks. I started keeping pigeons recently, and all of the clubs in my area require an electronic clock. I don't think most of them would know what to do with a manual clock. This reminds me of a discussion I had with my brother (a computer programmer) in 1989. I had returned to college after five years working as a firefighter. He called me up and offered to set me up with a PC. I told him "What would I want one of those for? If I need a computer, I'll hire someone to use it for me." (I was a management student at the time.) My attitude lasted until I enrolled in my first accounting course. After the first night I waited in line in the basement of the library to use a computer at the computer lab, I called him and inquired whether his offer still stood. He was very gracious, and came over and set it up for me without ever saying "I told you so." Now, twenty-two years later, I use a PC every day, and can't imagine how I would get my work done without one. (Can you imagine keeping financial records for seventy-two clients in the old paper ledger books? My head feels like it will explode if I think about it too much!)


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

ptras said:


> Interesting to read this old thread about manual vs. electronic clocks. I started keeping pigeons recently, and all of the clubs in my area require an electronic clock. I don't think most of them would know what to do with a manual clock. This reminds me of a discussion I had with my brother (a computer programmer) in 1989. I had returned to college after five years working as a firefighter. He called me up and offered to set me up with a PC. I told him "What would I want one of those for? If I need a computer, I'll hire someone to use it for me." (I was a management student at the time.) My attitude lasted until I enrolled in my first accounting course. After the first night I waited in line in the basement of the library to use a computer at the computer lab, I called him and inquired whether his offer still stood. He was very gracious, and came over and set it up for me without ever saying "I told you so." Now, twenty-two years later, I use a PC every day, and can't imagine how I would get my work done without one. (Can you imagine keeping financial records for seventy-two clients in the old paper ledger books? My head feels like it will explode if I think about it too much!)


Not only that, but say the word clients and now imagine nobody has cell phones!!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

SouthTown Racers said:


> Not only that, but say the word clients and now imagine nobody has cell phones!!


Can't get me on that one. My cell phone is for personal use only. If they want to get in touch with me, they can do it via email or on my work phone.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I bought a ET this year,and I`m real happy with it...Been racing since 1984...Can`t tell you how many good birds were made into bad trappers,from chasing them in the loft to get the countermark....The birds that were always a little late were all good trappers,because I never needed to get the countermark...As old birds though,bad trappers became good trappers...They now had very good reason to trap...A Mate...Eggs...or Babies....Alamo


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## Sky Island (Aug 12, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> First of all, you would have to provide the make and model as there were many different types. And second of all, I would never be able to explain in writing how to use one of those old units even if I could remember. Might be able to show you, but I would have to have it in my hands. Did your Grandfather pass on ? As he would have been the one to show you, but perhaps someone in your club can figure it out.


Yes, my grandfather passed on before I received the clock and as of right now i am not currently in a club for I have no racing pigeons yet. As soon as i am able to get some ill be in a club but i don't know where or how to do that either... ? ill try uploading some pics of my clock on my profile.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

I just got birds and this will be my first YB season. I was going to go with manual until member of clubs friend had a electronic clock for 300. Everyone in club has told me eclock was way to go so when I could get this one for 300 I jumped on it.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Sky Island said:


> Yes, my grandfather passed on before I received the clock and as of right now i am not currently in a club for I have no racing pigeons yet. As soon as i am able to get some ill be in a club but i don't know where or how to do that either... ? ill try uploading some pics of my clock on my profile.


Well first things first, let's find you a club so you can find out if a club in your area is still using those older timers. http://www.pigeon.org/findaclub.php I am sure there are still some clubs which do, but they would have to be near where you live. Once you join a club I am sure the local folks would be best able to advise you on your particular clock.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

My club still has a few holdouts that still use the old clocks. It's a pain in the you know what having to open them up get the counter markers out read the times. Then you have to type the info into winspeed. The E-clocks make it so much easier on the guy figuring out the results. Plug it in press a few buttons and you get a print out then hook it up to the computer and dump the info in and your pretty much done. The guys had them around here for a while b4 I got mine but I got sick and tired of getting beat by seconds. Plus like Alamo said you get good birds who become clock shy because you have to grab their leg and pull the counter marker off. No more of that with the E-clocks. When they come home from the race it's pretty much like any other training toss they go in and clock. You don't have to chase them to clock them. Unless like the race I just missed out on the IF Speed Record by a few seconds in the 300 to 350 mile category. When I had the bird go in and not scan and I had to run in and grab her and scan her I still won the in club that day so it wasn't all bad.


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

Just got my bricon hooked up this morning. Had 28 birds trap in about 12 - 15 seconds and only 18 clocked so i guess I better build myself a bit of a tunnel to direct them exactly over the pad. 
Tom


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