# Do saddles make good homers?



## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm curious to know if anyone has won races with saddle homers and are they short or long distance. I don't know much about them so that's why I'm asking. I found some really nice looking ones online and will purchase if they are worth it for racing stock.

Henry


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Looks do not win races, reserch the back ground of these birds, if the parents or gr parents are winners then they could be. 
Dave


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

If you want to know if they will go home yes...But joining a race, well I never heard saddles that won or join any race...A guy who lives about 4 blocks away from me got saddle homers only, from what he told me they fly from some distance but can not guarantee to be as fast as the racing pigeons...I was fascinated by Saddles and WhiteBar homing pigeons before but I don't know how they perform...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Saddle is a color, not a strain. Color of course has nothing to do with whether a bird can win or not.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks guys for your inputs. 

Dave, what you said makes total sense and I wonder if there are any out there with good winning blood. I know if there were they would be really expensive and hard to get!

Oliver - I like the white bars too! beautiful birds...pinoys do think alike!

Renee - I agree 100%. But wouldn't it be great if you had a saddle that won races?


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

True Lovebirds. Color plays no part in racing, unless you favor it, and some families tend to be one color, normally cause it happens in families. I have hardly ever heard of some one flying, and selecting for color, and having great racing results, unless the family is just prone to that color. An example, my partner when i was flying in Zion Illinois, flew Black Africans. After a year or so he tried to improve the black and his results in the race basket paid the price. Dave


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

Just like everybody said saddle homers are bred for looks not performance.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks for your input Dave and telstar12, I'll have to think about it some more if I'm gonna go through with the purchase of these saddles. Maybe I can get a pair and try it out myself. Nothing better than first hand experience...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I have a baby right now who is extremely close to being a saddle. Came out of two real racing pigeons. They weren't bred for color, but the genes just happened to be there. Color makes absolutely no impact on racing ability unless you breed for color. The more things you try to accomplish in your birds (such as rare color and racing ability at the same time), the harder it is to keep up and improve those traits.
There are splashes and piebalds that win races. So if you get some of those, you have a chance of throwing some birds close to saddles.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry lovebirds, just reread your post! Dave


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I raise Saddles first thing you all need to understand is it is not easy to raise a true Saddle you will get a whole lot of splashes and we all know that people race splashes. In the early days of developing the racer of today one of the birds use was the SMERLE this bird was Saddle marked and also had a frill in the 1860's these birds were flown out 500 miles so some of the genes are still in our modern race birds we see it when we get a racer that has a frill. If you have the book Encyclopedia of Pigeon breeds go to page 69 you will see a picture of this bird and the write up is on the next page70. On pages177 and179 you will also see Sion saddles racing homers.If I were 30 years younger I would love to take on the challenge of breeding Saddles for racing, IT WOULD BE FUN, Think about it.* GEORGE


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Yep. Color means nothing except for a couple of exceptions. One being that if the pursuit in the breeding program was looking for a certain color, then other attributes suffer. Another being that is it well known that hawks seem to pick out birds in flocks to target, if they are differently colored from the rest of the flock. In other words, a silver bar in a flock of blue bars and blue checks might be more likely to be targeted as birds race home.

Research can provide that even whites can and do win races. Grizzles win. I am sure that there has been a saddle or ten win some races. But, they may have been lucky or just happen to be saddles and were not specifically bred for the saddle coloration.

I had a saddle once that was not mine. It showed up at my loft and when I checked the band number, it belonged to an Amish Menonite group who did not have a phone number nor email address. It stayed around here in my loft for a couple of weeks and then I believe, but I am not sure, the hawks got it.

I know that we are not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but saddle homers just don't instill a lot of confidence in me that they are worth racing. There has got to be some that have done well though. Just about everything has sometime or another. Even barless.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Race Him*



MaryOfExeter said:


> I have a baby right now who is extremely close to being a saddle. Came out of two real racing pigeons. They weren't bred for color, but the genes just happened to be there. Color makes absolutely no impact on racing ability unless you breed for color. The more things you try to accomplish in your birds (such as rare color and racing ability at the same time), the harder it is to keep up and improve those traits.
> There are splashes and piebalds that win races. So if you get some of those, you have a chance of throwing some birds close to saddles.


*Hi BECKEY, Train him and race him give the bird a chanch to prove himself. Good luck racing BECKEY* ...GEORGE


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

george simon said:


> *I raise Saddles first thing you all need to understand is it is not easy to raise a true Saddle you will get a whole lot of splashes and we all know that people race splashes. In the early days of developing the racer of today one of the birds use was the SMERLE this bird was Saddle marked and also had a frill in the 1860's these birds were flown out 500 miles so some of the genes are still in our modern race birds we see it when we get a racer that has a frill. If you have the book Encyclopedia of Pigeon breeds go to page 69 you will see a picture of this bird and the write up is on the next page70. On pages177 and179 you will also see Sion saddles racing homers.If I were 30 years younger I would love to take on the challenge of breeding Saddles for racing, IT WOULD BE FUN, Think about it.* GEORGE


George, I would give you those 30 yrs if it were possible! The idea of true racing saddles is an awesome thing!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes Becky, race it! i would never discourage any one from flying a bird, But i would only tell them breeding for a certain color can hurt race results, as had been said, by you and others. Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yep I definitely plan on racing him. If color held me back, I'd have a lot of 'loft potato' birds  My flock is definitely not all blue, haha.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I like saddles, too, and yes they are homing pigeons (I only saw one at the show). Maybe you can race them and select the best one to breed and so forth until you get a saddle that can be race and win. But if George says that it is hard to breed true saddles, then you have more challenges than just breeding any color to race. It would be cool though. I don't know how many years you have to put in one though to develop a saddle racing homer.


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2009)

nothing wrong with a little color when having your birds take to the racing circuit


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> nothing wrong with a little color when having your birds take to the racing circuit


I agree with you on this one. Nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I'm curious to know if anyone has won races with saddle homers and are they short or long distance. I don't know much about them so that's why I'm asking. I found some really nice looking ones online and will purchase if they are worth it for racing stock.
> 
> Henry


 I produced one once, I was doing some very close multi-generational inbreeding and a white pigeon with red wings was produced. It never returned from his first training toss. It looked like a show bird, but in this case, a racer he was not.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> *I produced one once*, I was doing some very close multi-generational inbreeding and* a white pigeon with red wings was produced*. It never returned from his first training toss. It looked like a show bird, but in this case, a racer he was not.


I have one of these in the nest right now. It is from long distance stock. I will place it with a top flyer and we will see what he does. I will post pics of this bird and it's odd colored nest mate tonight.

Ace


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The problem with white birds is that they can't hide properly. They are too visible from the sky which led me into thinking that a predator most likely can spot them first. Left alone with nature they will be selected out through natural selection. That happens during the industrial age where a black moth survived more than white moth because the places were all dark and dirty. It favored the darker ones. These white birds most likely will survive where snow is frequent. They have advantage there.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

ace in the hole said:


> I have one of these in the nest right now. It is from long distance stock. I will place it with a top flyer and we will see what he does. I will post pics of this bird and it's odd colored nest mate tonight.
> 
> Ace


Sorry it took so long to get these pics posted. We had a snow storm that night and I didn't want to mess with the babys in that.

View attachment 11803


View attachment 11804


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Here it is with it's nest mate. What color is this? The feathers seam to be half red and half gray! What would you call this color.


View attachment 11805


View attachment 11806




Ace


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2009)

wow thats not something I would have thought would come from your loft but oh hell yeah they sure are cute and will surely be pretty by the time they are feathered out  sure do wonder what they will be capable of an hope someone will keep track when you put them in the race ring


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

As others have said, it's family line and not color that's the key. I can tell you that back in the 80's and 90's, a buddy of mine flew a family that often produced a few saddles (though we never called them that), they were always known around the club and in casual conversations as "seagulls" because of their color pattern. They flew and won their fair share of races and our club was fairly competitive. BTW - as an aside, the use of the term "seagull" is somewhat common among the racing guys I know and it was also common in Germany among some of the Color Pigeon Breeders, hence the name of the "Swallow" pigeon, which mimicked in color he "Sea Swallow" (Sterna hirundo) (a tern) and not the barn or other swallow. 

Also - your babies -- the unknown one looks like it's going to be a recessive opal check (I'd like to see pics of it again when it's more feathered out)


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Great point George. I am sure it could be done in time, but it would take one very DEVOTED flyer! Dave


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

A guy in our club has been working on color birds (saddles, grizzles, yellows, opal, and every other color possible) for 10+ years now and has alot of success with his birds. So dedication, patience and selective breeding will allow the colors to fly just as good. He does lose alot to hawks though so be prepared for the losses.
Ken


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Ace....what do the parents look like? Just curious if it's a sex-linked mating.
I've got one pair of sex-linked breeders. Have been breeding from them for about 4 or 5 years. ALWAYS, 100% of the time, I got red splashes (like you're little one) and black splashes (like the nest mate).....however, this second round, the baby is turning out to be a silver (or red bar), whatever you want to call it.
Seems odd to me to get this color variation after so many years. I know red is red, but still............


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Well I know that the saddle color birds would be called splashes and on the race sheet they would be BBSP, or RCSP,BCSP and if one wins its called a splash.I also know that splashes have won races. Just stop and think in a race of 1000 birds what is the presentage of splashes or whites or odd color birds as compared to blue bars and blue checks so if 85% (850birds)are BB,BC. that would leave 15% (150 birds) in the odd colors. THINK about it!* .GEORGE


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

george simon said:


> *Well I know that the saddle color birds would be called splashes and on the race sheet they would be BBSP, or RCSP,BCSP and if one wins its called a splash.I also know that splashes have won races. Just stop and think in a race of 1000 birds what is the presentage of splashes or whites or odd color birds as compared to blue bars and blue checks so if 85% (850birds)are BB,BC. that would leave 15% (150 birds) in the odd colors. THINK about it!* .GEORGE


LOL.......well, you gotta call them SOMETHING!!
I just finished putting everyones list of birds in a program to send to our combine race secretary.
Here's just ONE of the colors that was listed. I'm not KIDDING either.
Blue Bar Saddleback WF Splash
What the heck? You can't put all of that in Winspeed!! LOL
You should see some of the colors that the flyers send to me. It's really funny.........


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Ace....what do the parents look like? Just curious if it's a sex-linked mating.



Here is ma and pa. Not the best pic but no time to take another today.

View attachment 11807


The white bird with a few redish gray feathers is the cock.

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Then,, yes, I believe it IS a sex-linked mating. That means you're little red bird is a cock and the black one is a hen. I think.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> LOL.......well, you gotta call them SOMETHING!!
> I just finished putting everyones list of birds in a program to send to our combine race secretary.
> Here's just ONE of the colors that was listed. I'm not KIDDING either.
> Blue Bar Saddleback WF Splash
> ...


 Thanks Renee you just proved what I was trying to point out.I would think that you listed the bird in question as a BBSP (blue bar splash) or BBWF(blue bar white flight) this is normally the way they would be listed. Winspeed would have a nervious brake down if they were listed any other way LOL.  ........... GEORGE


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Ace, those are nice looking birds! I hope you do well with the youngsters and keep us posted on there race results.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Then,, yes, I believe it IS a sex-linked mating. That means you're little red bird is a cock and the black one is a hen. I think.


At least on this set of young I think you are right. I would guess the red & white to be the cock.

Ace


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Ace, those are nice looking birds! I hope you do well with the youngsters and keep us posted on there race results.


I will not be racing this year because I am moving but these young will be flown by someone else her on PT. I hope all of the members of PT that are recieving my birds this year will keep us all posted.

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ace in the hole said:


> I will not be racing this year because I am moving but these young will be flown by someone else her on PT. I hope all of the members of PT that are recieving my birds this year will keep us all posted.
> 
> Ace


Well, I will.............


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

whitesnmore said:


> A guy in our club has been working on color birds (saddles, grizzles, yellows, opal, and every other color possible) for 10+ years now and has alot of success with his birds. So dedication, patience and selective breeding will allow the colors to fly just as good. He does lose alot to hawks though so be prepared for the losses.
> Ken


A guy here has a family of yellows that are pretty good and he had one place in the top 5 in one race last year that I know of for sure. Also a guy from the RRV club (I think) in Illinois Lou Digby sent me a saddle to breed from last year it was in the KCL race out there and did well so he gave it to me.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2009)

ohiogsp said:


> A guy here has a family of yellows that are pretty good and he had one place in the top 5 in one race last year that I know of for sure. Also a guy from the RRV club (I think) in Illinois Lou Digby sent me a saddle to breed from last year it was in the KCL race out there and did well so he gave it to me.


 I remember that guy though I dont think hes been around for a long time , he did have some very beautiful birds thou


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

*Yellows*

You guys might try sending a message to Crazy Pete, I know he has yellow Trentons but is definitely interested in yellows. You might put him in touch with your club member!

Ralph


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## chlee09 (Mar 11, 2007)

nope...depends.


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