# found injured baby-what now?



## beege (Nov 23, 2005)

Hello, I have found a baby (not sure how young) pigeon at the arena where I take my horse to ride. He was just on the ground, but too young to fly, and he had a bloody leg that didn't work too well. He would die if I left him. I put him in my coat and drove home and cleaned his wound, which made him hate me for a few days. His leg was terribly messed up, his knuckles would drag, it was all bruised. I have gotten his leg working again very well. ( He can perch normally and grip now again with that foot) But now I have some question. I have handled him to do a sort of physical therapy on his leg, and he seems very tame. I am pretty sure he thinks of me as a mom figure, because he tries to put his head in my mouth sometimes. He does not like my husband getting too close to him though.He has since moved outside to a hutch I have, but he doesn't want to go anywhere. Maybe he was younger than I thought he was. He still had lots of down on his head, but there is a lot less of that now, and he seems to be growing new feathers everyday. If he is returned to the wild, will he know what to do? Will he be able to find food? Can I teach him? Could he learn from others? I can keep him for his life if I have to, but I want him to have a happy pigeon life with pigeon friends. Also, he seems to have parasites on his feathers, they are small, but I can see them. I encourage him to bathe, and he seems to like that, but it doesn't help. What should I do? Any ideas would be helpful. thanks for reading my too long post!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi beege,

And welcome to Pigeon Talk. Thanks for rescuing, caring for and being concerned about his well-being. For the parasites, you can get Scalex Spray @ a pet store, and follow directions. Make sure to keep away from head area. An old sock cut @ the arch and used as a hood does a pretty good job with that.

About the place where you picked the bird up at, is their a flock there that perhaps his family is still a part of? That would be a good place to start. You would probably need to do what is referred to as "a soft release" if this is what your end choice is. But before that happens, you can take a look at this thread
concerning criteria for releasability:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11919

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi beege and welcome! Where are you located? The weather would also have a lot to do with when and/or if the young pigeon could be released any time soon. FP has given good advice and a good link. Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Hello, Beege. Thank you for taking care of this baby. How long have you had him and what/how are you feeding him? I assume that's going well, as you said he's growing feathers and improving.

Because you found him as a youngster it's likely that he would be better off kept as a pet and may not be releasable. It sounds as though he is imprinting on you. If you can't keep him we could help you find someone to take him if you let us know what part of the country you're in. Keep in mind that pigeons are not wild in the U.S.; they are feral descendants of lost and escaped domestic birds. Because they're non-native there's no law against keeping them. A well cared for captive pigeon will lead a much longer, healthier life than a feral on the street. So please don't feel guilty if you keep him. 

I know of several feral pigeons who were apparently released by people who raised them and thought they were doing them a favor by releasing them, but the birds didn't know how to find food and went to humans when they got hungry. Fortunately for the ones I know of they were adopted by others and became pets, but I'm sure others aren't so lucky.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi Beege,

Thank you for picking up a pigeon in need. Would it be possible for you to bring the little pigeon in for the night? I'm just worried that he's injured and out in the cold (predators could also get to him). I also don't know his age, and the babies cannot regulate their temperature.

Would it be possible to put the pigeon into a box in your bathroom for the night?

Where are you located?


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## beege (Nov 23, 2005)

*more info*

THanks so much to Terry-FP-&Birdmom4ever for your quick replys. Here is more info: I am in Washington, close to Tacoma, but out in the country. The weather here is rainy, but does not get as cold as some areas of the country. I think maybe that Beege (that's what I call the Pigeon)had his family where I ride my horse because maybe they find things to eat there or they may nest or roost in the barns. I have never paid that much attention, and we are more used to seeing Pigeons in the City, not out here in the country. I am worried that there's is enough to eat here this time of year. Even if he did know how to find it, which I don't know that he would. I let him practice flying around the yard, and he doesn't seem to know how to go back to his hutch when he gets hungry. I looked at the thread that FP suggested, and it is excellent info, unfortunately I answered no to too many things. I fear to release him might be a death sentance.  I worry though too about how unhappy he would be here living in a cage with no pigeon friends, especially when it's time to mate. Thanks again so much for the info, Ihave never done a forum before, and I don't know anything about Pigeons. -Jeannie (Beege's worried human Mom)


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Beege,

You are right there doing the observing, so if you believe after reading the link over that you have an unreleasable, then I would say treat the situation as that. The rabbit hutch might not be adequate over time, and if you let him free fly, he could be in harms way in terms of predator birds or otherwise. Those are things you might want to consider. Many folks on this site keep birds in the house and do bring them outside for sun in the cage or have an aviary. Anyway, they do make great pets, and as you said earlier it seems that the bonding is mutual. In terms of a mate, I'd start w/square one. If he's unreleasable, would you keep him? Then go from there.

fp


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Hi Jeannie,
The folks who have been responding are extremely knowledgeable and this site is an excellent resource. I'm about 45 minutes north of you, in Kent, if a local contact would be helpful.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jeannie, 


It is normal as far as my experience with raising the logistically orphaned Baby Pipgeon, that they will accept a surrogate parent with the same enthusiasm and trust and happiness as they would accept their biological parent, or, so long as the surrogate is at least approximately sensitive to them and interactive in ways the youngster can understand and feel comfortable with.

Your Bird I gather is eating/pecking on it's own for successful self-feeding, so that is good, though it will also most likely result in a shorter duration of an appearance of tameness or emotional reliance.

Time will tell, but usually that is what I encounter. Where they then, in growing up over the next month say, or sooner, tend to assume more wild aspects for themselves, and this makes my usual regimen of prgressive forays for them to be sociable amid the feral flock, difficult, since they would fly off very likely before they are in my view of it, ready.

So, for these, and usually I have other adult ferals who to some degree mentor them indoors here, I only have one opportunity for their release, and they will join the feral flock and become quite wild just about immediately.

But I make sure they have their Feathers in good 'powder' first, and tend to wait untill they are just about young adults to let them go.

Those whom I have raised from very young Babys, I can introduce in a progressive sequence of forays, to the feral flock, and these young Birds will come back in when called, although mostly I hover near anyway and watch over them in their social interactions with the wild ones, but if I do not, they tend to come back in anyway, or I will walk out and have them follow me back in. When they elect not TO come back in, they have in effect, joined the others as new members...so I have to sort of be sensitive to this and make sure they are ready before they do.

If you have access to a feral fock, consider to introduce your Bird to them now and then before he can fly, and, then wait...then once you feel he is ready to keep going, bring him out to them again, and let him go, as you will not likely be able to call him back if he gets away before he is ready.

He will do fine that way, and not be intimidated.

Usually, their parents watch over them for these forays, whic do not begin for them in the feral worlds untill they can fly, or, in some instances, if the feral flock grazes quite near to the Nest, then the young Bird might climb or hop down and be watched over by it's parents in it's socialization progress.

They are always intimidated the first few times no matter who raises them, and their parents stay near to comfort them, just as we should do.

After a few such forays, they will be pecking with the wild ones, shoulder to shoulder with them, and be comfortable...but the first few times, they are nervous and usually just tremble and maybe preen a little, and one does well not to ask of them anything more at that time...and for them to know you are quite near to scoop them up if they wish.

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Seems to me when my pigeon 10 years ago was a baby she did the same to me with putting her head in my mouth, this means they want you to regurgitae food and feed them  , seems gross I know but this is a baby thing. I understand your thoughts of the baby returning to the wild but maybe keep in the back of your head they make awsome pet birds  and the maintainance is easy. good luck I think it is wonderful what you did/ are doing ! 

Naturegirl


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...of course, do not feed them by letting them insert their Beak into one's mouth.

I wish this was safe to do! It would be so easy that way! Chew some seeds, or just have some smallk whole seeds, and go for the gusto...

But, our mouths normally, because of our Teeth, even if we brush the hell out of our teeth and use mouthwash, contain bacteria and germs which will opportune on the vulnerable immune systems of a young Pigeon, to make them sick or kill them...or to require tests and fecal exams and determinations for appropriate meds to save them.

We m-i-g-h-t be able to get away with it sometimes, who knows, but overall, sadly, it is just too dangerous for them...

Now, maybe, with a rigorous tooth brushing with the right antiseptic, and gargleing also, it would be within some acceptible limits of safety.

Likely, if one has no teeth, it would be best...but still would require a serious mouth disinfecting first...


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I like you Phil your crazy LOL 

Cindy (Naturegirl)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Cindy!


I was thinking s'more on this, and...

If one used a smallish piece of 'Saran Wrap' or clear Sandwhich Wrap, I think one could make a little pocket to hold Seeds/Formula in one's mouth, so it is insulated from one's mouth actually, and feed them that way safely.

I am sure they would love it, and it would be pretty easy.

Otherwise, my own method has been to make a little similar saran wrap 'pocket' in a small 'Okay Sign', or, to feed them where they insert their little Beaks into the hollow side of a regular people-baby-nipple...

They DO love to eat of course, so any thing simple and fast and easy for them and us, which is safe and comfortable and happy for them, is a good thing...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Phil,

I might actually work to feed them w/one's mouth if one made the saran wrap pocket you describe, but I think it would tend to confuse them a little more about humans and make them all the less releasable. But then, I imagine your just kidding, n'est-ce pas??

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi fp,

I think they are quite able to enjoy their period of safety and dependance/reliance, trust and comforts as we may provide them, and still naturally grow up to assume moods and modes of independance and wildness.

But they do need to get to be with Wild Birds to assume these 'wild' modes and sensibilities, to tune into them and to live by them, and so we must not deprive them of the experiences, sequentially if possible, of our introduceing them to wild flocks and watching over them as they learn to socialize and to tune 'in'.

One can see their progress readily, and the shifting then in their identifications, away from us, and 'to' their place in the feral society of other Pigeons.

And for a time, they can do both very well - to enter into their feral attunements, and, to retain their to-us attunements and ease. But then the shift will tend to be toward the feral sensibilities and away from us.

So really, if other things are in place, I do not think it would effect them adversely at all if we did feed them from our protected mouths...! Lol...

They reconsile somehow our hands as in effect being our feed-them-mouths, so, if they can manage that cognitive gymnastic, then they already are much more clever than we may have supposed!

We should be as close to what they need or would have had..as we possibly can, I think, and so long as we are 'close' to their real needs, in the right ways ans sensibilites to them, they will not enmesh or remain needy or confused and intimidated by the feral Life that awaits them prospectively.

I think the biggest problem or challange in all this, is to be able to let them mingle with a wild/feral others, or with a wild or feral flock, and for it to happen often enough while they are not quite fliers yet, for them to have that shift.

I have found here, that having various feral Adult free-roveing last-stage convelescent fliers, pending their release...that in some way, even if they do not appear TO be doing anything, they in effect mentor the young Pigeons I am raising, in imparting to them the desire to have certain modes of being and awareness and attunements, which are the modes of the feral Worlds.

'Tater' now is become almost as 'wild' in here as any Wild Bird would be.

In fact, he is MORE wild than most of the truely wild feral adults in here presently. MOre wild than the lones I have only had in here a few days even, in his maners and behavior and watching things and so on.

I can only approach him if I am v-e-r-y slow in my movements, and he trembles if I do to, poised to alight!

I can pick him up and kiss the top of his Keel where his Crop begins, which I used to do a lot, and he then shifts, but ONLY for about five seconds, to enjoy that, then, he is overcome with the desire to flee! Lol...and you can see the modes of being there, globally..shifting briefly to an easy domesticity, and then into "Oh no! I can not let anyone do 'this'!!!!" and Zooom! off he goes...

He has learned important things from the adult Doves and adult Pigeons in here who are wild/feral, and gets along with the Doves very well...and gets along with the adult feral Pigeons very well also...and that is a very good pre-requisite for when he does get released. 

Thgeir modes of being are exactly what I could not provide, even though I semi-raised him from his being a 3 week old or so...to now...


Rambly, 

Yours, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## beege (Nov 23, 2005)

BEEGE UPDATE: Beege is doing good and flying like a pro now. I have been thinking hard on my options. I do have a chicken coop that he could live in here. The hutch is too small to be a permanant solution. The downside of this is that he will live in a cage, and I would only be able to let him out when I am around, because my cat (another rescue) would maybe eat him. Or a neighbors cat. My husband thinks he would be sad living in a cage.Plus, no pigeon friend. (I guess I could get one, tho) Can pigeons live okay around other birds? I have chickens, for eggs, they are free range. I rescued them too when a lady moved away and left them behind with no food. I found lots of wisdom in Phil's messages, in that you seem to have great powers of observation and have been through this before and know what to expect. I am encouraged by the fact that Beege only seems to like me, not other humans at all.
I raised a baby robin one time, and let him go. But it was easy, as they eat everything and it was easy to teach him how to get his own food. I started at the compost pile one day, I turned it and when the worms appeared, he had to get them himself. At first he opened his mouth and warbled like normal, but when he figured out I was not going to fill his mouth, he finally picked up a worm on his own. After that, he was a bug hunting machine! I taught him how to get blackberries too, and then after that, I simply cut off his food supply. It was so simple, where as the pigeon seems harder. Plus, this time of year there is lots less natural food for them to get. There seems to be a big difference between the Robin and the pigeon, almost like the domestic ancestry of the pigeons shines through. This is what worries me.....I had no doubts that my robin was ready to go and join his own kind, no sure about Beege. thanks again to everybody for the time you have spent answereing-I really love this site and the discussions!-Jeannie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Beege,

Again, many thanks to you for your care and concern for this feral. I think that if you have still have concerns about your pij and you have the means and commitment to give him a home that you should probably _follow your instinct on this one!_

More than likely the pij will bond to you, and if a female may even lay eggs to show her likewise commitment to you  . And if a male, they have their special ways as well! All kidding aside, down the road, once this pij is settled in, and you feel ready, chances are, there will either be another feral in need, or you may just see a pij in the adoption section here that needs a home. Hopefully, by that time, and with the help of links and members here you'll have a good idea of whether or not you have a male or female and will be able to adopt accordingly. One thing's for sure, you'll be in good company here. Here's a link to a story from one of our members:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/pigeons/BerniePijStory.html

As you hang around here for a while, I'm sure you'll find that many of us have 
"Bernie" stories .

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeons.com

I know it is late for me to be in on this one, but I want to thank you saving this youngsters life and for all your supportive care and concerns you have over this youngster.

Please feel free to browse our sight and continue to ask us questions about any concerns you have.

Your instincts will serve you well, and in time the choice will become clear as to what the best future is for Beege, I'm sure he will also give you an indication of what is best for him. Please update us and let us know if we can help.


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## beege (Nov 23, 2005)

*Beege update*

Hi All: Beege is with me still and doing totally great. He (or she)has regained the use of his leg completely. I think he is too tame to be released at this point, plus I worry about the weather and his ability to get food. He does not want to go anywhere I think, for now anyways. He hangs with my ducks sometimes. Is that okay? I am also worried about his lack of concern for the other animals that live with me, that should concern him. (like the cat) I just want all to know he is doing splendidly. Thanks-Jeannie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Beege,

If you are still so inclined to provide him shelter, then I would. Sounds like there is some bonding going on and it is not good for the pij as well,to not be concerned about your other pets. Thank you for your concern and continued care for this pigeon.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Beege,*

I do hope you will keep your pigeon! 

Mr Squeaks has to be an apartment bird because he cannot fly. I had to decide what to do because he was living with FOUR cats. Well, he was "raised" with them and they were aware of him before I even tried to let him roam among them. As it turned out, he rules all of us with an iron beak and chases Twiggy, especially, whenever she enters his territory. Unfortunately, for her, his territory is the WHOLE apartment! Since cats look at birds as "meals with wings," I keep him away from them when it's feeding time! NEVER come between a cat and his dinner!  

However, in your case, Beege can fly so he/she has a distinct advantage over your cat! Best of luck and the forum is always here for questions!


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