# Canker in Goose -- HELP!



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

You guys have a lot of experience with canker, so I could think of nowhere better to turn than to Pigeon-Talk. My pet goose, Moody, has a canker growth on her tongue. It is not bothering her at all, she eats and drinks fine, but it is obvious from the outside as well as the inside that she has it. There is a lump under her beak, and inside her mouth a lump on the back of her tongue that is yellowish in color. Her breath doesn't smell too great either. I don't know when this started but so far, she still seems perfectly healthy. I want to treat this ASAP so I just wanted to know WHAT I need to treat this, how long I'll need it, and what sort of doses we're looking at to treat it. She is a large bird, probably a little under or a little over 20 pounds--I'll weigh her tonight--and I'm going to need help knowing what doses to give and everything.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The dose depends on the drug--what have you got?

Pidgey


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I don't have anything at the moment, I still have to call around and see what we have here...I'm located in Regina, Saskatchewan... We don't have many things for birds around here, but I'll check. What drug do you recommend?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Or do I gather that you don't have any anti-canker drugs? Well, in lieu of anyone else with more experience with canker in geese coming on, I'd probably go with Metronidazole. If you can get it as 250 milligram tablets in the FishZole form from a local aquarium and fish supply store (not Wal-Mart), then you could give two tablets, twice daily. That's one possibility.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Canada, huh? Well, Brad told me that Metronidazole is pretty easy to find at the aquarium stores there in Canada. A lot of the other things are probably going to be a lot tougher to find and you might have to order them through an online site and then wait for them. The Met's probably going to be your best bet.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It's usually called Fishzole @ Aquarium supply sections of pet stores. Make
sure there aren't other meds tossed into a mix. You could also try Feed and
Grain stores. Is it possible for you to post a picture?

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might call these places in the morning:

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/A-1-Aquarium-Pet-Supply-Ltd/18978.html

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/Alin-Decaro-Food-Pet-Mart/2083366.html

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/Blue-Water-Aquarium/206081.html

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/Pat-s-Pets-Supplies-Ltd/2455424.html

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/Petcetera/2461581.html

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/bus/Saskatchewan/Regina/Petland/1222541.html

You might also ask them about a Tetracycline because that's one you can keep around just in case.

Pidgey


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Extemely difficult. But I'm sure it's canker, I've seen it so many times before and it looks identical. It's also possible that she got to some not-so-clean water quite a few times when she has outside time... So I'd say it's probably canker.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I've heard that some canker medications can cause psychological or even neurological problems. Will either of these medications harm her in any way?


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

And THANK YOU SO MUCH for those stores!!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, we've only mentioned one medication so far and that's Metronidazole. Metronidazole (Flagyl) is about the safest canker med that there is. Dimetridazole (Emtryl; it's related but much worse for the kind of effects that you're talking about) is probably the worst. Carnidazole (Spartrix) is considered one of the more effective. There are others like Ronidazole and Secnidazole. Most of those are going to have an availability problem for you.

Pidgey


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I believe I have some Flagyl around. I'll get back to you guys in just a bit. I have many people on the phone right now, my mother and grandmother (who was a nurse) and they are familiar with this medication... I believe we will be able to find Flagyl, either in Fishzole or another form...As soon as I find it, I will get back to you.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vasp said:


> I've heard that some canker medications can cause psychological or even neurological problems. Will either of these medications harm her in any way?


If treated with the species specific dose rate and for the recommended length
of time, you shouldn't have any problems.

As always, w/Tetracyclines, do not give calcium concurrently.

fp


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

That's okay, her food has next to calcium in it anyway. I'm not exactly sure what the dose is for her species.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I actually might have some Tetracycline around here somewhere.
My only question would be... Is it safe to use? What are the recommended doses, and for what length of time? I would only have Tetracycline around used for humans... Not for birds... So it wouldn't have any recommended doses on the back or anything.

Edit: We have a few pills of Doxycycline. On Wikipedia it says it's a member of the Tetracycline Antibiotics group. Would this be okay? Each pill is 100mg, and we actually don't have very many. Should we just look for Fishzole?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that'd depend on which Tetracycline you got and we're not looking to give her any here--it'd just be one thing that you could probably find at an aquarium store to have on hand for a rainy day. There're a few in that family like: Tetracycline (same as the drug family name), Oxytetracycline, Doxycycline, Minocycline and Chlortetracycline. They go by names like: Aureomycin, Terramycin, Vibramycin and a lot of others.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

We're more likely to give a Tetracycline for a respiratory infection although they work for some other things as well.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Vasp,
If you can tell me how much the goose weighs, I'll ask my Avian vet and exact dose.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

That would be great. Do you think you'll be able to ask your vet ASAP, probably tomorrow? I want to start treatment as soon as possible... If you could ask for the proper dosage for both Fishzole (Flagyl; Metronidazole) and also for Tetracycline just in case I can't find Fishzole, that would be WONDERFUL. I can't even express how glad I am to have you wonderful pidgie people to turn to for problems I have with my birds. I don't think I'd get such wonderful support and help from any other site. 

I'll PM you when I get Moody's weight.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sure. Just tell me how much the bird weighs. You work on finding the meds you need.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tetracyclines aren't for canker. I was just suggesting that if you're in an aquarium store and they've got that, too, that you might pick some of it up just in case the weekend comes that you've got a bird with something else that it would be good for--then you would be able to take care of it immediately.

Pidgey


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

All right. Then, Charis, would you mind just asking how much Flagyl I'd need to give her each day?

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Vasp said:


> All right. Then, Charis, would you mind just asking how much Flagyl I'd need to give her each day?
> 
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Sure, but I need to know how much the goose weighs.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Vasp, if you've got a bathroom scale and the bird will let you pick it up, you could weigh yourself first, then hold the bird and weigh the both of you and do the math. That'd be close enough.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vasp, you'll probably have the easiest time getting Metronidazole/Flagyl/Fishzole
locally, but if any of the zoles are available including Dimetridazole, I would
get what ever you can w/Metronidazole taking preference simply because
Charis is asking for that one. Dimetridazole is a good canker medication and
I have it on hand, it can and is used safely. In fact, I'd prefer it to Secnidazole as a 
stand alone canker med, I'd just keep my options
open until I found out what was available locally.

fp


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

The goose is heavy enough to be weighed on the scale individually...I just have to set her on it. She's a pet house goose so I pick her up all the time, she just hates when I open her mouth apparently. Her eyes get very wide and she bites.

The thing is, I'm not even so sure that she HAS canker, though last time I looked I swear I saw a yellowish growth on the back of her tongue. Truth be told, I have no idea what a goose tongue is supposed to look like, being that I never looked in her mouth before now. The lump under her beak has disappeared...It's my opinion that she merely had a little bit of something she was eating (it wasn't something metal because it was much more squishy than that) and it got stuck under her tongue. Apparently this happens quite a bit. But I still haven't been able to see her tongue well enough for a while AND her breath still has a strange odor to it. I will do more checking & some weighing and get back to you.


PS: Seeing as you guys are big experts on bird poop in all its forms...What would liquidy, extremely smelly poop tell you about the health of the bird? Her poop...Smells like a mixture of rotten fish & rotten meat... It's extremely horrible. It's also rather grainy looking, has no form, and looks sort of like... Extremely ground up beef, I hate to say. It's very revolting, and according to other goose owners, their geese have no odor, and well-formed poop. She is on a 15% protein pullet grower, as we have no waterfowl food around here, but since she was about a week old, her poop has smelled BAD BAD BAD! I think it has only gotten worse. What could this mean? Should I take a sample of her poop to a poultry vet and have them look at it? (They'd have to wear face masks, I hate to say).


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> I actually might have some Tetracycline around here somewhere.
> My only question would be... Is it safe to use? What are the recommended doses, and for what length of time? I would only have Tetracycline around used for humans... Not for birds... So it wouldn't have any recommended doses on the back or anything.
> 
> Edit: We have a few pills of Doxycycline. On Wikipedia it says it's a member of the Tetracycline Antibiotics group. Would this be okay? Each pill is 100mg, and we actually don't have very many. Should we just look for Fishzole?



Hi Vasp, 


Tetracycline or Doxycycline are not Medications which will treat Canker or Protozoan illness.

They are certainly good Medications for various kinds of infections, but not for Canker.


You could do a few 'google' searches for Pigeon Supply or Farm Supply places in your area, or even not in your area...and order some medications on-line, which with next-day Air, would be to your door in a couple days.


Ronizadole might be a good one, as well as Metronidazole.


Now too, different Bird Species will have differing dosages or particulars.


Given that a Goose will not drink Water in the same way as other Species, I would think it best to get Pills to put down her gullet, rather than to get a medicine to put into her Water.


I looked in the formulary I have access to, and I did not find any listings for Geese ( or Ducks ) as such, for either of these 'Zole' Drugs...


However, for treating Trichamoniasis for 'Raptors' it indicates 30 - 50 mG per kG, PO, QD...but says you may increase dosage to 100 mG / kG

'Poultry'...110mG kG, PO, BID


So...I dunno...


Probably you could try 100-ish mG/kG, PO and see how it goes...you should see a melting away of the lesions by day three I would think...

This is a BIG Bird compared to Pigeons..! So bear that in mind when considering to order a medicine...since she will need quite a bit comparatively.


My whole Bottle of Metronidazole, 100 Pills, at that dosage, would be one five day regimin for a Goose, if that..!

Any Pigeon Supply place would have similar small Bottles...

Geese are raised Commercially to some extent...and, possibly you could 'google' some Geese raising places, and, if they are friendly ask them where do they get their Anti Canker Meds and how satisfied with them are they? And so on...but likely they would use a water mix kind and be heavy handed with the doses...




I sure wish "BERIMAX" were possible to obtain...it would be ideal for this...



Good luck..!


Phil
L V


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vasp said:


> The goose is heavy enough to be weighed on the scale individually...I just have to set her on it. She's a pet house goose so I pick her up all the time, she just hates when I open her mouth apparently. Her eyes get very wide and she bites.
> 
> The thing is, I'm not even so sure that she HAS canker, though last time I looked I swear I saw a yellowish growth on the back of her tongue. Truth be told, I have no idea what a goose tongue is supposed to look like, being that I never looked in her mouth before now. The lump under her beak has disappeared...It's my opinion that she merely had a little bit of something she was eating (it wasn't something metal because it was much more squishy than that) and it got stuck under her tongue. Apparently this happens quite a bit. But I still haven't been able to see her tongue well enough for a while AND her breath still has a strange odor to it. I will do more checking & some weighing and get back to you.
> 
> ...


Vasp, that's kind of why I was hoping you could post a pic....I would bring
the goose and a sample of the most recent poop into the poultry vet if possible. Have you ever tried a more 'goose specific' diet for your goose?
Could be the diet that is contributing to the odor and consistancy of the
poops. 

Still might be a good idea to call around and have an idea of what places
carry what meds locally, though it seems that you don't have an emergency
on your hands but rather something that you need to methodically investigate
w/the help of your local vet.

Please keep us updated regarding the outcome at the vets.

fp


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I think there may be a tiny bit of yellowish growth on the back of her tongue, but it's really hard to tell because it's just a tiny bit more yellow than the rest of her tongue, and they have very strange, lumpy and even spiky tongues! She seems fine... For now, I'm just going to keep an eye open on her and search for some good poultry vets. We wanted to find goose food, you see, but here there is NONE. Some people feed them a good poultry food mix mixed with grains and scratch, but even that is unavailable here. People here just don't raise waterfowl a lot. We are willing to have waterfowl food shipped to us in large quantities, no matter the price, but we still haven't found a person who can do that... We're also not sure if Mazuri is best or a ration that "Mother Goose" feeds her geese. She says she gets no odor for up to about 6 hours...After like an hour, we have a lot of smell.


PS: I have to use two hands to pull open her beak, and she wiggles out so quickly that I could never take a picture. Even if I had someone behind me ready to snap a picture, I never get a clear view of her tongue because she has a VERY strong jaw (DON'T underestimate the strength of a 20 pound goose with a 2 metre wingspan!). This is part of the problem. I can't see if there IS anything back there very well. I thought it would definitely be canker when I saw the lump under her beak, and when I saw a little yellow lump on her tongue, I just put the foggy 2 and 2 together. But the lump disappeared. And that might not EVEN be a canker lump, they do have odd tongues after all. And now it's just very foggy!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Vasp,
Can you find chicken scratch? It's a mix of oats, barley, wheat and cracked corn. I'm really wondering if the diet you are feeding is producing the smelly poops. How old is she?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/sea...cZQQstZQQciZSaskachewan+CityQQpvZSKQQpcZ?sln=

Try these places. Farm and Feed supply.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> I think there may be a tiny bit of yellowish growth on the back of her tongue, but it's really hard to tell because it's just a tiny bit more yellow than the rest of her tongue, and they have very strange, lumpy and even spiky tongues! She seems fine... For now, I'm just going to keep an eye open on her and search for some good poultry vets. We wanted to find goose food, you see, but here there is NONE. Some people feed them a good poultry food mix mixed with grains and scratch, but even that is unavailable here. People here just don't raise waterfowl a lot. We are willing to have waterfowl food shipped to us in large quantities, no matter the price, but we still haven't found a person who can do that... We're also not sure if Mazuri is best or a ration that "Mother Goose" feeds her geese. She says she gets no odor for up to about 6 hours...After like an hour, we have a lot of smell.
> 
> 
> PS: I have to use two hands to pull open her beak, and she wiggles out so quickly that I could never take a picture. Even if I had someone behind me ready to snap a picture, I never get a clear view of her tongue because she has a VERY strong jaw (DON'T underestimate the strength of a 20 pound goose with a 2 metre wingspan!). This is part of the problem. I can't see if there IS anything back there very well. I thought it would definitely be canker when I saw the lump under her beak, and when I saw a little yellow lump on her tongue, I just put the foggy 2 and 2 together. But the lump disappeared. And that might not EVEN be a canker lump, they do have odd tongues after all. And now it's just very foggy!




Hi Vasp, 



Your Goose needs to be eating wholesome natural Foods.


Any Canned 'Ocean Caught' fish, but no Tuna...so - Sardines, Herring, Sprites, Mackeral, Salmon...NO 'farmraised' ones...'Ocean Caught'...

These are cheap, by them by the Case.

Fresh Sprouts, fresh tender Greens...finly grated Carrots, Beets...Tofu...fresh or Canned or 'fresh frozen Corn, ditto Peas, Baby Lima Beans...or just good quality frozen ones for 99 cents-a-bag in any Grocery Frozen Food isle...while there, get bags of frozen Blueberrys, Blackberrys, Raspberrys (skip Strawberrys however...)


Wholesome 'fresh/green' Grains, or seasoned small Grains, Oats, Triticale, Barley, Maze, Sorgum, etc...clean nice Grit...Peaor small Lima Bean sized Gravel kinds kept in a Bowl of zclean water for her to eat when she likes...


Grains may be added to her food-eating Water Bowl with the other foods...mix and match...

Good Quality Breakfast Cereals, Corn Flakes, Shredded Wheat, now and then or even often, added to the top of her eating Water...


Do this, and you will be getting poops which have no smell, are merely moist 'slugs' , and which you can pick up in your fingers and toss...


Plus, she will really love the chow and not be bored with it either...


Just mix a few of the things for each meal...Berrys and Tufu and Salmon with Sprouts...

Grains, Cereal flakes, and Sardines with shredded Carrots and Lima Beans...

You will soon figure out the best combinations she will enjoy most.


Good luck..!


Do you feed her useing a Bowl with two or three inches of clean Water in it?To which her meals added for her to eat it in a natural way for her kind?



Three or four meals a day?



Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I would not doubt the diet I'm feeding her is causing the messy, smelly poops. I've had no luck finding waterfowl food. The only real feed stores here are Masterfeeds (Cow Town) and Co-Op. But the lowest protein feed is a 15% pullet grower. They don't have, nor can order, waterfowl feed. I wouldn't doubt she's malnourished. She's been on a lower protein percent all her life due to advice from a waterfowl expert, but after 6 months her beak hasn't turned orange yet, like it should have after less than 2 months. I think this is also due to the food.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> I would not doubt the diet I'm feeding her is causing the smelly, smelly poops. I've had no luck finding waterfowl food. The only real feed stores here are Masterfeeds (Cow Town) and Co-Op. But the lowest protein feed is a 15% pullet grower. They don't have, nor can order, waterfowl feed. I wouldn't doubt she's malnourished. She's been on a lower protein percent all her life due to advice from a waterfowl expert, but after 6 months her beak hasn't turned orange yet, like it should have after less than 2 months. I think this is also due to the food.




Hi Vasp, 

If it were me,I would never feed any commercial processed 'pellets' or other factory-made so called 'foods' to any Goose or Duck.


These Birds are plenty easy to just feed right and wholesome foods to, it is fun to do, and they really appreciate good food too. It adds a great deal to their happiness, and, will add immeasurably to their longevity and health too..!


Check now and then for my prior 'food' ( and happy poop ) post which is being delayed and may take many hours or a day to appear, and of course by then it is on the prior page someplace, and no one would ever know it existsed...so, look back for it...I outlined a whole menu...praxis...


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Vasp,

Personally, I think it very unlikely that your goose has canker. I would guess that what you saw was some food left in the beak .. I could be very wrong. I do think it is a very good idea to have the fecal done as the smell should not be so overwhelming as you have described, and the poops should usually be well formed depending upon what the goose has been eating .. give them lots of "watery" stuff, and you're gonna get watery poops.

Geese are grazing birds and need to be able to munch on and forage in grass or be provided with same. The 15% pellets are probably just a tad too high in protein but not disasterously so. The scratch grains or even wild bird seed mix would be good. You can also offer green leafy vegetables like romaine lettuce or kale. Perhaps you could try mixing the pellets with wild bird seed mix (which I know you can find there).

I would try giving the goose more grain, a little bit of the leafy green veggies, and letting her out to "mow" your yard .. she'll love doing it for you!

Terry


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Thank you, guys! Yes, now I do doubt the goose has canker. I just added 2 and 2 together, from what I saw. I should have looked more.

THANK YOU, PHIL! I would have absolutely no problem preparing good foods for my little baby Moody, I just had no idea what I could feed her exactly. She's a bit picky, so I'll start her off. She hates food with no flavor. So far I've noticed she loves really sweet things. I bet she'd like fish.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I'm not sure, but do geese actually eat that much fish? And exactly what sort of amount of each food would she need? I just don't want to be feeding her too much or too little. Would it be advisable just to put out a certain amount, observe how much she eats, and add more or give less depending on how much she eats at a sitting?

I'll definitely try those foods, starting today. I'll go out and do some goosey shopping today. Would it be a good idea to still offer a little bit of her old food (though it was bad for her) to wean her off it instead of making a sharp cut to the new diet?

She's going to be a happy little girl... We're ordering her some new stuff this week, including testing out HonkWear from BirdWear and giving Boni feedback. We also are ordering a new harness from Nancy Townsend and some other stuff... She's also getting a bit bored of her "squishy toy" so I think it's time for some new dog toys.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The fish may really make her poop smell, so be prepared. I would encourage you to call the farm supply/feed stores about the scratch. Geese do love greens. 
I hope you post pictures of her in her new Honkwear. I bet she'll look cute.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Hi Vasp, and welcome to Pigeon Talk. Moody sounds like a wonderful goose. I had pet geese for five years and loved them dearly, but we had trouble with their diet. I got them as goslings and brought them up on chick crumbles and fresh greens (per the breeder's instructions) but they were _very_ picky eaters. As adults they wouldn't touch poultry pellets of any kind. I tried different things and, like you, could not find waterfowl pellets locally. My geese did best on Mazuri waterfowl pellets (ordered on-line directly from Mazuri). However, the shipping cost more than the product so it was _very_ expensive. I also gave them a lot of well-washed fresh greens every day and chicken scratch as a treat. They grazed on the grass in our back yard but that only lasted a few months because they destroyed the lawn. 

If I had it to do over I would probably try to mix up my own feed for them as Phil suggested. There's a good book on goose husbandry by Dave Holderread, "The Book of Geese: a Complete Guide to Raising the Home Flock." He gives recipes/instructions for making your own food mix. But be warned, there is a chapter about raising geese for meat...just skip that part. The rest of the book is quite informative. 

I suspect the bad smell from your goose's droppings are because of the poultry pellets. Geese are herbivores and poultry pellets, as I recall, contain some animal byproducts. It wouldn't hurt to give your goose some probiotics to make sure she has good gut bacteria going.

I haven't seen canker in geese or heard of it, so like Terry I doubt Moody has canker. 

One last thing about medications: I would not use any medication on Moody that is administered in drinking water. It's dangerous because geese drink a lot more water than other birds and can be overdosed that way. If she needs medication it should be administered in a measured dose via her bill. This really takes two people; one to hold the goose and the other to pry open the bill and place the pill or liquid in its bill. 

Best of luck with her. I've had pet birds my whole life but my geese were the best. They are sensitive, intelligent and unswervingly loyal. If we ever get to a point where we can have some acreage I'd love to have geese again.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I absolutely adore Moody. She is like a child to me. What kind of probiotics could I offer her? Where could I find them? Aside from that, I do believe that geese are not herbivores but omnivores, though very close to eating no animal products at all. I have seen geese in the wild eat fish. If I offered her a small amount of fish everyday, do you think the poop would smell too bad? The nutrients could benefit her. Also, she has never really eaten her food in water before. It's always been dry, with water right next to it. I guess it wouldn't hurt to put her food in the water, but geese do graze a lot and I'm not sure if she'd really accept the food if it was in some water...Though I know she enjoys eating the bits of food that fall out of her mouth into her water.

I'm going to get her some groceries this afternoon, including pretty much everthing on Phil's list. As much as I like Mazuri, the price for 1 50lb bag is $50, and the shipping is crazy. I think it may be beneficial and even FUN to offer her healthy, fresh foods. So far, all I know is that she loves berries, tomatoes, and melons. She also tried to take a grab at my curry chicken, but I didn't let her get any. Thank you for all the advice and I will most certainly get pictures of her in her Honkwear. I think we're getting the 'bath ducks' fabric. Little rubber duckies. That most certainly will be cute.

Geese are amazing creatures. Everyone should have the chance to raise one and experience them. Moody is a little bit, well, MOODY. But I think this is due to the fact that she is an adolesent goose and likely isn't getting all the nutrients she needs. The way Moody looks when she has cuddles...She gets fluffy and cute and smiles at me with her dark blue eyes. She actually has a toothy grin, and you can see all her little pointy beak teeth along the rim of her beak when she looks down at you. She blushes when I talk to her--from a very light-pink to a rosey red. She absolutely loves bath time, but she doesn't like to have her diaper changed. Whenever I call, "Hi goose" or "Hi Moody" she honks/squeaks back at me. Sometimes her voice cracks and she sounds really squeaky. She's very sweet. I don't understand how people can not like geese after just a little time spent with them.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> I'm not sure, but do geese actually eat that much fish? And exactly what sort of amount of each food would she need? I just don't want to be feeding her too much or too little. Would it be advisable just to put out a certain amount, observe how much she eats, and add more or give less depending on how much she eats at a sitting?
> 
> I'll definitely try those foods, starting today. I'll go out and do some goosey shopping today. Would it be a good idea to still offer a little bit of her old food (though it was bad for her) to wean her off it instead of making a sharp cut to the new diet?
> 
> She's going to be a happy little girl... We're ordering her some new stuff this week, including testing out HonkWear from BirdWear and giving Boni feedback. We also are ordering a new harness from Nancy Townsend and some other stuff... She's also getting a bit bored of her "squishy toy" so I think it's time for some new dog toys.



Hi Vasp,


I am sure she will take to the new chow right off the Bat.


She does not need a great deal of protean, especially as she is an adult already...but she does need things found in Fish, and since fresh live varietys of Bugs, Grubs, Slugs, Tad Poles and so on are a hassle to round up, 'Fish' is plenty close enough.

Sea Weed too...I used to add fine shredded by me Sea Weed to my Ducks Water-Food Tray and she loved it. Get a non salty kind.


You can do some casual research and a few rough calculations to make a guideline on how much protean she should have...indeed, too much is bad, but it is pretty forgiving as long as it is somewhere close to her correect needs being met.


What I did to feed my Duck, was I had an old white Enamel Tray, about 6 inches long, 4 inches wide, 3 inches deep. ( She was five or six pounds or so I would guess! so much smaller than your Goose !) 


I filled it to about 2 or 2-1/2 inches with clear cool Water...and then I put her food into the Water, and she would eat, filtering the foods in her Bill and 'narrating' various murmers of soft honkings and so on as she did so.

If she was silent, or sporatic and pausing in her 'filtering' I knew instantly there was something she did NOT like in the food, and she would sort of 'filter' a little here and there, starting and stopping, exploring it, and then turn away...so, there is no mystery if one trys something and it is not enjoyed!


If there was something she did not like or want, mixed in with all the other things she did like, it would be all that was left at the end !
in the by-then murky Water..!


She could really discriminate somehow, and that Bill was fast, too...very fast, in how it sort of filtered everything,opening and closing faster than the Eye could see.


I never noticed any bad smell from her poops, from her eating Fish.

Probably because whenever she did, it was combined with Tofu, BlackBerrys or Blueberrys, grated Carrot or Grated Apple, a handfull of fresh tender tiny Sprouts, thawed, fresh Frozen Corn, or Peas, or Baby Limas... and so on.


Usually I invented meals for her which had four or maybe five ingredients at most, and this way, there was lots of variety, and I could also gauge what ingredients or combos she liked best.


She loved certain Breakfast Cereals, 'flakes' but I forget now which ones, ( 'Uncle Sam' Cereal I think was a winner ) but it was definite! Similar ones would be left and not eaten...and the right ones would be eaten with lots of 'Narration' on her part. These I sprinkled on top, never did themas a meal in themselves.

Thin sliced Bananna was liked too if memory serve...


She had sickly runny stinky poos when I got her ( and an injured Leg and general depression and exposure and who knows what else ) , and in just a few days all that was a thing of the past.


Blueberrys and Blackberrys of course make for rather 'purple' poos..!


So, Berrys, Sprouts, Grains, Tofu, Misu, Sea Weeds, Fish ( should be only Ocean Caught,.never 'fram raised' ) ...thin sliced Mango, Bannana, Flax Seeds now and then too...grated Apples, Carrots, Beets...wholesome Breakfast Cereals, 'flakes' or other...


I am confident your Goose will really appreciate these and you will soon find out which she likes best...and her tastes will change too as she seeks out what her system is behind in, and gets caught up.


In Nature they brouse Green Seeds on the plants, Seasoned Seeds, tender Shoots, all sorts of Bugs, Slugs, Tad Poles, tiny Animals of whatever sort, Mosses, small Fruits, small Fish, Berrys, buds...


For Grit, I just gathered old Gravel and sorted through it...soaked it in Bleach Water for a day, rinsed, soaked it again...rinsed and then kept a small Bowl of clear Water with a few tablespoons of the clean Gravel ( Gravel pieces were from 1/4 inch in diameter to about 3/8ths inch ) and whenever she was in the mood to get some Grit, she would do so.

If yours is out of doors a lot, she likely finds her own of course.

Have fun..!


Phil
l v


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, I should have said geese are primarily herbivores. They don't eat as many little critters as ducks, which are great for devouring snails. But now that I recall, my geese did occasionally eat worms they pulled out of the ground. 

I agree--there's nothing like raising a goose from newly hatched to adult. They're amazing.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I hatched my little baby out along with some other baby ducks and geese. However, I made sure she was hatched away from them. Of course, that means I had a few different hatchers up, and it all got a bit confusing. Luckily, the little ducklings hatched 2 days before the geese, so I was able to get them in the brooder before the geese started getting out. Moody was the biggest baby by far, and had the biggest egg, too. She was the loudest as well. She peeped and peeped and peeped whenever I talked to her. The other baby, who was also a girl and might've been mine, wasn't as loud. Moody hatched first and therefore, when I held her against my chest, warming her under my chin after she hatched, she was my baby. From that moment on, I have seen her every day, and never wanted to ever let her go. And so I won't.

Ducks and geese are so much the same, and yet so very different in so many ways. The ducklings were born with incredible ability--they could run, eat, swim--anything was possible for them. They'd tilt their little heads to the side and look at us with one bluey-grey eye, and they'd run after your feet like no tomorrow. They were squirmy and jumpy, and seemed like they had a natural intelligence to them. Now, geese were not like this in any way. Geese are SO dependent on mom and dad, even moreso than ducklings are on mom. They are more like babies, sleeping and cuddling more, and calling for their parents in a louder, more squeaky-toy like voice. They are extremely clumsy, even as adults, tripping over anything from vacuum cleaners to their own food bowl, or their own feet. They love to be cradled and held for long periods of time. When Moody was just 2 days old I took her on a walk, carrying her against my chest. She loved sleeping in pockets too. I could take her to pet stores and introduce her to people. They'd pet her and fawn over her, and she would just fall asleep. The ducklings were often so much harder to take around, because they had so much energy all the time. There was only one little duckling, that my friend had, that was more like baby geese. He was imprinted on humans, so that must be why. Imprinting changes waterfowl completely.

Friends and family alike have been worrisome over the possibility of Moody's poop smelling vile due to fish. But there are animals out there that eat fish and smell like nearly nothing. I'd say red meats and biproducts are the real problem. And surely if you mixed fish with other foods, it couldn't be a big deal. My grandmother went all out and bought some frozen fish for me (I have no idea what it is) and said it doesn't smell as bad as the other fish. However, I'm going to go and buy some Ocean caught canned Salmon, Mackerel, Sprites, and maybe even some Sardines. But I really don't know if I like the idea of sardines!

Yet again, thank you so much for all of your help.

We are having some Mazuri shipped in mid November ANYWAY. Everyone around is trying to convince me that a diet with some pellets & some fresh foods would be good. But instead of 2 bags, if this diet works out, I'll just try one. I also gave her some fresh foods in clean water yesterday. It was a glass thing you bake cakes in. I forget what they're called, but I put thawed blueberries, thawed slices of mango, some oats, and finely grated carrots. She didn't really like it, but I don't think she was particularly hungry at the moment. She seemed to like the water, and tried at the carrots. Usually she likes fruits, but I think her favourites are grapes, apples, tomatoes and cantaloupe. She's picky!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

My geese were picky too and didn't go for fruit much except for watermelon. They absolutely loved it. Of course it's only available in season, but when it was available I got it for them and they devoured it with great relish.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

You'd never believe how picky she is. She hasn't eaten anything this morning, and she has some fresh, wild alaskan salmon set out, with blueberries, mango, apple slices and oats, and she looks at it, looks at me, and ignores it completely. What is wrong with this goose?! Picky picky picky.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> You'd never believe how picky she is. She hasn't eaten anything this morning, and she has some fresh, wild alaskan salmon set out, with blueberries, mango, apple slices and oats, and she looks at it, looks at me, and ignores it completely. What is wrong with this goose?! Picky picky picky.



Hi Vasp, 


Might take a while...

Especially if her eating habits were established on other foods.


Too, in theory, their tastes would shift Seasonally, and in Nature, so too their foods.


Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

My geese were like that, very suspicious of new things. That's why I used to bite the bullet and buy them Mazuri--I knew they would eat it and it was balanced nutrition for them if not the tastiest thing in the world. The downside of trying to come up with your own mix of food is that if they don't eat everything in the mix they still won't get balanced nutrition, no matter how many goodies you provide.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

*Poop results today*

Well, over the course of the afternoon she sort of ate some of this and some of that, mainly fruits, though. Most of her berries, mango and apple are gone. What's left is the salmon, a little bit of the fruits and a little oats and a bit of her original food that I mixed in just to see if it would encourage her to eat--which it did. Her poops are much more green than usual, and also more wet. She did have more water than normal this afternoon, including all the fruits, so do you think this is why her poop is so wet? Other than that, it had next to no smell.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

> My geese were like that, very suspicious of new things. That's why I used to bite the bullet and buy them Mazuri--I knew they would eat it and it was balanced nutrition for them if not the tastiest thing in the world. The downside of trying to come up with your own mix of food is that if they don't eat everything in the mix they still won't get balanced nutrition, no matter how many goodies you provide.


Yes, we're going to offer her some Mazuri pellets just in case...She really has taken to salmon and oat meal, I must say! Not to mention that she is already starting to like more blueberries & mango. She had her dinner served about 2 hours ago, and almost all her salmon and oats are gone, all the apples, but the carrots still remain. I don't think she ever really had a taste for carrots.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp, 



Well...so far, so good..! Glad to hear...


Who knows, maybe by Friday she will LOVE shredded Carrots??


Lol...

...she might!


Phil
l v


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Geese are everchanging. Her habits, good and bad, are always disappearing and reappearing and fading and then appearing out of nowhere at all. Her poops before bed time are not nearly as green as before..Just a normal sort of light brown, like the color you like to see in pigeon poop. It smells very, very faintly like salmon, but nothing gross. The consistency is still very wet and has no form. Do you think more grit would actually solve this? She doesn't really eat grit, I've tried but she doesn't really pay any attention to it. I'm still feeding her small amounts of her previous food because it encourages her to eat her oatmeal and other such foods she might not have any interest in otherwise. More updates tomorrow... So far, I've seen improvement, and I hope it just gets better and better.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp, 




Yahhhhhh, this was only day "1", so, give it time...!


When I got my little Duck ( barely half grown size, maybe 1/3rd grown pretty young anyway ) her poops were terrible for several days at least, then straightened out and stayed nice.


She too was charming in every way, and amazingly intelligent, patient and accomidating..and after a while, calm and serene and easy in every way.


I am in an inner city slum, everything asphalt and so on, no yard but concrete and ashalt, old commercial building, and of course being a young Duck, she very soon decided that my various ministerings were indicating I was her make-do parent, so, she wanted to follow me constantly, and this was not possible for her to be allowed to do, since most of my time is in a cluttered Machine Shop Wood Shop with endless crap all over the floors which would be very bad for a Duck.


So, we took walks around the neighborhood somewhat, in the parking lot at least, every day...watched Airlpanes in the sky which she felt were worth noting of course...sought out Grit or investigated whatever there was to see or do.


If I left her sight for an instant she would start calling and getting anxious and panicky, then come running after me.

Initially she had a pretty decent sprained Leg and some other contusions or soreness from people kicking or hitting her with things her at some bad urban park she had got dumped in ( Thank God she never got into the Pond there which had three foot high walls all around it, she'd have drowned...) 

...and I did not want her jumping off the bed or hobbling anxiously after me!


So that first week was mostly me carrying her with me in a padded box, or, me staying within her line of sight so she could VERY attentively watch me and make sure I did not disappear!

Trying to buy Grocerys was tough in the beginning, I'd be as fast as I could, just grab a few things at a jog, but by the time I was coming back out you could hear her really panicking with LOUD Honkings, calling me...so I'd run to the Van and get her calmed down and comforted and so on.

Run in and buy a few more items...go through the comfort/assurance rituals again...


It really upset her if she felt she was not able to see me, or imagined herself lost or abandoned.

Anyway, after a while we got things worked out for her to handle me leaving the room, or rather, leaving her line of sight without her freaking out getting scared or worried and making accelerating and increasingly LOUD Honkings or running after me and so on...got it worked out by gradual experiment, for her to just stay on the Bed, ( or in the Van on the Passenger seat ) and let me be out of her sight for increaing periods of time ( which I never let be TOO long, or more than a half hour say...at most.)

I would check back often to reassure her, and after a while this went well and easy for her and she did not worry any more.


I would take her for rides in my Van often so she would not worry when I had to go somewhere, and take her to the Park and so on for some decent Walks and grazing opportunitys.

We found some rural Parks that had Ducks and Geese, various kinds, and I noted the little Seed Pods and Weed Seed fronds and Greens and little Acorns or whatever other stuff they were eating, so after a while I crouched down and made various inviting or affirming sounds as I ( actually ) ate these things also, conspicuously, as she watched ( I wanted to make sure they were not poisonous or bad tasting before encouraging her to try them ) and so very quickly I got her into doing it, so pretty soon she was grazing these various exact same things too and having fun doing so...nice liesures those were.

Or we'd just lay in the grass and day dream and do nothing for a while too.

So we'd go to these parks and graze together..! 

Lol...

...and I soon found I had to defend her from marauding bands of male Ducks hell bent on having their way with her.

This was easy, since I had gotten into Duck-mode anyway, so they'd come up all talking to eachother, sauntering and swaggering, all full of themselves and so on, and she would be getting scared, and I would sort of signal to her not to worry and to just stay 'close'...


And with me making myself low and crouched down to their eye level or a little higher actually, I would make noises to these guys to forget it and be on their way, and they would test this, and so on, but first they would do some sort of double-takes in surprise, perplexed with why I would 'say' these htings or assert this way...so somehow I would get it across real well that they did NOT want to mess with me or her, and they would go off then, narrating and commenting in their complaining tones and so on....looking bacl over their shoulders.

Worked pretty good...I had some pretty good Honking and improvised Duck sounds I was trying, and I found the ones that rang the bell too! whatever I was saying, they got the drift, and would leave us alone then.




She was wonderful, slept every night right next to my ribs or shoulder or hip, making delicate quiet little Flute note songs in her day dream time before falling asleep.

Her and whatever Pigeons felt like joining but they usually slept ON my hip or kneee and not next to it.

In the neginning, she was always up and awake at dawn, trying to get me up too, preening my eyebrows or ears or something, making sounds to get me up, since she figured THAT was when one should start one's Day..! 

I was never ready to start my Day that early, so we had to get that worked out also...and we did...to just sleep in late instead.


I gave her to some friends after a few months, because though I had rescued her, and got her well and so on, I had no real way to provide her with the amenitys or room she needed.


I'd fill an old Laundry Tub for her to swim in, once every few days, in the little Kitchen here ( really the Laundry Tub is my Sink ) and she loved that and would dive and splash and honk and swim in fact circles and murmer with pleasure, and I'd toss some Canned or frozen Peas or Corn or raw Pine Nuts in there for her to have fun with too, diving to forrage them...then, I'd set up an old small Hair Drier on the Bed, blot her with a towell a little first, and she would stand in front of it for half an hour or more drying off, preening, and quietly narrating as she saw fit.


They can sure win your Heart...

I enjoyed that time very very much.

I was so proud of her and how well she abided the situation here...she was very sharp...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

She sounds like a wonderful duck. Moody is a bit hormonal and crazy at this point in time, but I have experienced many of the things you've described. Moody loves hugs as well, and will tuck her beak under my shirt at my shoulder. Geese love to wrap their necks around you--sometimes around your neck or over your shoulder. They like, also, when you rub your cheek up against theirs. I figure geese have a lot of experience in affection, because of the family-oriented lives they lead. 

Moody is a big chewer. She loves to chew EVERYTHING. Cords are a favourite--the vacuum cord has been rendered absolutely useless; she ruined my iPod charger, and she kept unplugging the heater from my oscar's fish tank. This is why she needs so many toys--parrot toys, dog toys, just random things like belts hung up from her pen. 

She has a little dog excercise pen just for times that she can't come out...Like preening time, when she would just go crazy and probably get water all over the new floors I put in just so it would be easier to clean with a goose around.

Moody has also slept with me before, I have no idea where she sleeps or anything, but probably somewhere near me. All I know is that in the morning, she wakes me up by, yes, prodding my nose or chewing my hair. At 5 or 6 AM. But the thing about Moody is that if I react in a sharp way, like JUMP or twitch of flinch or push her back just because I'm not used to being woken up that way, she will grab hold of my arm and BITE! Geese have beak-teeth and they are rather sharp.

I'll see how the new food does today and update for you.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I would have never imagined that geese are such lovable pets.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so glad to hear she has taken to her new diet! That's most encouraging. She does indeed sound like a very special goose. Mine were only in the house until they were big enough to go outside, although we did allow them in the kitchen for visits once in awhile.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Moody really loves oats now. She ate a whole bowl of them this morning. She is beginning to like carrots, too, but not shredded. She likes them chopped up. She loves pieces of apple, canteloupe, and also loves mango. Yes, geese are very, very affectionate animals. They live in family groups in the wild, and the flock ends up consisting of quite a few different family groups. There is no leader in a goose flock--though there are bullies, they don't change or affect the geese they bully. So, as pets, geese have a very mutual relationship with you, and consider you an equal. Baby geese are raised by their mother and father and remember them for their entire life, not straying far from them even as adults. They bond very strongly with their mates and offspring, as well as siblings and parents. This is why geese don't try to mate with their "parents" when they're raised by humans...They remember them. Imprinting is on an entire species instead of just one or two people, so they believe they are human and living in the house in a diaper is not unnatural to them at all. They lack pretty much all instincts other than, of course, to preen, eat, sleep & also to swim and bathe. Lighter geese and ducks may also learn to fly, but they do need some assistance...Like if you run with them, they will run and flap their wings and may eventually get up a few feet. For instance, Moody goose does NOT appreciate her food served in water at all. She won't eat it. She'll sort of sift the water through her beak for a while, decide it doesn't taste or feel right, and not eat it. She won't eat her oats unless they're dry, either, and doesn't even like fruit in water. The sad thing right now is that the Moody goose does not have a proper fitting diaper--her old harness is too small for her. So she has to stay in her pen a lot more now because it's cold outside now and a diaper takes a week to get here, fed-exed, too. Sigh.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

*Canker problem*

Well Vasp, i'm so sorry to hear about Moody 
It must be very serious to you..I know you know alot more about birds than me, but if nothing you try giving to her works, just try and call the Vet. If thats not available just search on the Internet about Canker or Canger, or what ever it was called 

I know i'm not perfact about all that problem i'm just trying to help out 
I hope your little baby Moody will be fine and i hope, well we should all hope that her Canker or w/e get better soon 

From Bird-Girl


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Hi there. Thankfully, my Moody's fine. On my part, it was all just foggy. She had a little something caught under her tongue and geese have very weird tongues... Along with the fact that she wouldn't allow me to open her mouth completely. I added 2 & 2 together and got 6. So basically, Moody's fine. She's right now eating some all-grain breakfast cereal and oats. She's really become a good goose. Before, she wouldn't touch anything but her old food but now she'll eat almost anything I put in front of her unless it's disgusting, of course.

You'd never believe how amazing waterfowl are.


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