# sick abandoned pigeon...help!!!!



## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi, my name is Juan Carlos i live in South America, in Ecuador, .i really need help.....i recently found a pigeon that apparently had fallen from its nest, he looks almost like an adult but i think is still young because he emits a squeak when i give him food and couldnt fly very well neither, at the beginig he would not eat by itself so i had to feed him in the beak with a mixture of ground corn and soybean with wather, he apparently got better in that first week and accepted the food in a good way, but one day he suddenly seemed ill he wont move and looks fluffy all the time and also had too much mucus inside the beak, so i ask the vet and told me to give him enrofloxacine so he was taking 6 drops each day for 3 days and he got so much better!!!!! he started flying more and he was eating by itself ... a lot...i was very happy about it...i was also giving him vitamin B, as my vet told me too, then for the next 3 days i reduced the dose of medicine because i realized that acoording to the medical indications in the enrofloxacine bottle i was giving him too much for its weight and i read that enrofloxacine may cause anorexia in animals for overdosage so i was worried because i didnt want he got seek again (4mg three times a day, the instructions said 2,5mg) but then...afther two days he got seek again... he went all fluffy again stop eating and looks very sad and he has been like that since then im feeding him in the beak again and this morning i noticed that there is blood on his drops!! and today he refuses to eat i also noticed he also has like sweat on the chest it looks a litle bit weat, and refuses to go out of his sleeping box.....im really really worried i dont know what to do....there is not even one birds speciallist here im so sad because i dont want him to die....i want him to get better and release him in the place i found him.....the vet(who bytheway lives at like 1000km but is the only person i thrust) told me to do lab stool tests and the results said that it has 20% of coccidia, and ascaris lumbricoides(++)??? so i have to medicate him again with fenbendazol or ivermectina.....and sulfa....but im not even sure if thats the right threatment because my vet even if he is really helpfull and has the best intentions is not a bird speccialist so i would really really apreciate a second opinion......thanks all for your time and i hope you can tell me what do you think about the whole situation or something more about how i can help this beautifull litle bird to feel good again..


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Juan,

Thanks for helping this little guy out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.

The treatments you mention for the coccidia and ascaris (worms) would be correct, a Sulfa med and Ivermectin (Ivermectin would be safer than Fenbendazole). For the Ivermectin, I myself would give 1 single drop (1 drop) down the throat if this little guy were under 325g and 2 drops if his weight were above 325g, you give this medicine one time only (once), then wait 12-14 days and give the same amount again one time only (this instruction is for the 1% Ivermectin Liquid). For the Sulfa, I would use Trimethoprim/Sulfa (also called Bactrim or Septra) at a rate of 50mg/kg two times a day, every day for 7 days. This means that for every 100 grams of body weight he will get 5mg of Sulfa medicine every 12 hours, for 7 days in a row, the Sulfa is also a very good antibiotic and will also treat for bacterial infection as well. Please keep him in a warm place and make sure that he stays well hydrated (drinks enough water) every day.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Hi Juan,
> 
> Thanks for helping this little guy out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.
> 
> ...


Actually, it would depend upon the concentration of Ivermectin the vet has on hand. It may need to be diluted.
Fenbendazole is toxic to pigeon and doves, while not so to other birds.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Charis said:


> Actually, it would depend upon the concentration of Ivermectin the vet has on hand. It may need to be diluted.
> Fenbendazole is toxic to pigeon and doves, while not so to other birds.





Dobato said:


> For the Ivermectin, I myself would give 1 single drop (1 drop) down the throat if this little guy were under 325g and 2 drops if his weight were above 325g, you give this medicine one time only (once), then wait 12-14 days and give the same amount again one time only *(this instruction is for the 1% Ivermectin Liquid)*.



Actually, this is why I clearly stated the instructions I gave were for the 1% Ivermectin Liquid.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*seek pigeon*

Hi, thank you so much for answering so fast....i had never used this blogs and i actually thought that it will take much longer to get any kind of response....otherwise would have waited to see the answer before giving the medication but i have bad news i already gave the medicine with abendazol  and this morning i was very upset when i read what you said about some components may be toxic for pigeons because i search the internet and i found both fendentazol and abendazol are toxic for pigeons i told my bet but he said it is only toxic in large doses...anyway there is nothing i can do about it now...but from now on i will post any doubts and wait before giving any more medications....hope you can continue helping me.......i just got the results of the lab test of the beak mocus and it appears normal....just estafilococos....but im even more worried than i was because i realized this morning that the pigeon has an swollen eye lid and tearfull eye also noticed that has trouble drinking wather and eating so i was looking at it closer and has a weard smell in the beak and also traces of dried blood i started with the sulfa and thrimetrophin threatment...so i dont know what else to do...i know i have to feed him even if he dont want to but i feel really bad cause it seems like if he is in pain speacially when i force him to eat......


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*sick pigeon*



Dobato said:


> Hi Juan,
> 
> Thanks for helping this little guy out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.
> 
> ...


Hi, thank you so much for answering so fast....i had never used this blogs and i actually thought that it will take much longer to get any kind of response....otherwise would have waited to see the answer before giving the medication but i have bad news i already gave the medicine with abendazol and this morning i was very upset when i read what you said about some components may be toxic for pigeons because i search the internet and i found both fendentazol and abendazol are toxic for pigeons i told my bet but he said it is only toxic in large doses...anyway there is nothing i can do about it now...but from now on i will post any doubts and wait before giving any more medications....hope you can continue helping me.......i just got the results of the lab test of the beak mocus and it appears normal....just estafilococos....but im even more worried than i was because i realized this morning that the pigeon has an swollen eye lid and tearfull eye also noticed that has trouble drinking wather and eating so i was looking at it closer and has a weard smell in the beak and also traces of dried blood i started with the sulfa and thrimetrophin threatment...so i dont know what else to do...i know i have to feed him even if he dont want to but i feel really bad cause it seems like if he is in pain speacially when i force him to eat......


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

When a bird is ill the people who post suggestions and information to help generally try and check in fairly frequently in case there are questions or further help is needed.

Well, we will have to trust that the vet got the dose right for the Fenbendazole, and your vet is right about the Fenbendazole being very dose sensitive. Although on the forum here we do not recommend Fenbendazole as a first choice med in treating worm infections, there are many countries, India comes to mind right away, where Ivermectin is not readily available and many there do use Albendazole and Fenbendazole, in fact there are members on the forum here who have used it in the past as well. So using it does not mean a death sentence for your little one, especially if as mentioned, the vet got the dosing right. Also, when doing the follow-up dose in 12-14 days, your vet could use 1% Ivermectin instead of following up with Fenbendazole.

The Trimethoprim/Sulfa you have started him on is really quite a good medicine and if the eye or mouth area happens to be infected there is a very good chance that as well as treating for the coccidia infection, it will also clear up any bacterial infections he may have.

Here is a link to show you how to hand feed him if you need to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow. I am not sure how you are force feeding him, but this may help you see how it is correctly done. What are you feeding him right now?

Again, good luck with him and I will help you the best I can,


Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you tell us exactly how much Albendazole that you gave him and what the information on the specific formulation is and maybe we can figure out whether there is anything to worry about or not. If memory serves, Fenbendazole and Albendazole can cause the destruction of the part of the bone marrow that creates red blood cells so that the affected bird ultimately suffers anemia. We have seen it be fatal, but generally only in cases of significant overdose.

Pidgey


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*sick pigeon*

Thank you so much for the information do you have any sugestions about the food i should give him??? first days i was feeding him with a mixture of ground corn and cooked soy beans....when he was ok and eating alone i gave him wheat and canary seed now im feeding him again with the mixture of ground corn and soy bean with wather....i read on the internet i can also give him cooked egg yolk? for proteins?? thank you so much for your help


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Izhca, do you think you could post up a photo of your little guy, it is always helpful to see the bird we are dealing with in helping us make suggestions. I would skip the egg yolk, your little guy will get enough protein from the beans as well as the corn. You could mix the corn, ground beans, and some wheat and canary seed into kind of a paste (not too thick, just where they hold together enough to ball) and make some very small "balls" , about the size of a pea, to pop to the back of his mouth, like in the video. Also, as Pidgey mentions, perhaps you could call and ask the vet the dosing he gave for the Fenbendazole for us to confirm all should be well.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*sick pigeon*

Hi Dobato and Pigey....well my vet lives in other city so he just tell me the medicin names and i buy them in stores here...right now im furious and really fearing for the life of my brid because i ask specifically for IVERMECTINE and they give me one pill and i thrust it was the right one because has the same name my vet told me "trifen" but now i went to the store and check the botle and it says something totally diferent abendazol 30mg and ABAMECTINA 0.2mg they sayd to me it is the same that ivermectine but i dont thrust them i try to do some research in the internet but there is nothing conclusive....it says 1 pill for kg so i gave him 1 quart as my vet told me to....what im supoused to do now??? this sucks......my bird is looking worst than yesterday....even if he has been drinking the sulfa disolved in the wather ......1 500mg pill in one liter of wather....i dont know how to post the pictures of my pigeon so i uploaded them in my facebook ([email protected]) the album name is pigeon thanks for your help i hope you answere me soon....


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Albendazole pill was 30 milligrams? And, if so, did the entire pill go down the bird?

Pidgey


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Pidgey said:


> The Albendazole pill was 30 milligrams? And, if so, did the entire pill go down the bird?
> 
> Pidgey


it was a 30mg pill i gave him one quart about 7,5mg


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, well, that doesn't appear to be a dangerous range for that drug. However, wormers usually make birds feel a little off and he could certainly be sick with other stuff at the same time. Actually, that's usually the case--polymicrobial infections (two or more illnesses at the same time).

So, on the Sulfa drug, we're looking at one 500 milligram pill dissolved in one liter of water? That doesn't sound anywhere near enough but I'll check. Exactly what's the name of the Sulfa?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

By the way, given part of your description, I'd be just about as worried about a protozoal infection like Trichomoniasis (common English name of "canker", which isn't "cancer"), which we'd treat with a drug like Metronidazole, Ronidazole, Secnidazole or a few others. The trade name for Metronidazole is "Flagyl"--see if you can get that. One 250 milligram pill would get us started.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Izhca, I agree with what Pidgey has said about the Albendazole @ 7.5mg. I also agree that 500mg into a liter of water will not be any where near strong enough. Do you have another pill, as I can give you instructions on how to turn the pill into a concentrated suspension you can give by mouth? He could be worse because he is not getting near the amount of Trimethoprim/Sulfa he should be getting.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*sick pigeon*

Please tell me then how much do i have to give him, i have more pills, the pills contain:

sulfadiazina 500mg
trimefoprim 100mg

i will try to find the medicine for canker do i have to make a lab test first or just give it to him....bytheway i noticed he is barely making any poop and when he does the amounts are minimal.

thank you so much


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What kind of a pill is it? That is, is it a capsule made of gelatin with powder inside of it or is it more of a hard tablet? I ask because we can do different ways of dosing with different stuff. Will look up the correct dosage in a minute.

Pidgey


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

It is a hard tablet....ill wait for your answere


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the correct dosage would be 120 milligrams of all medicine per kilogram of bird per day. Usually, I give it half in the morning and half in the evening. Do we know what this bird weighs?

In regards to getting a test, no, don't bother--just get the Metronidazole, probably about 500 milligrams of it, however it comes.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Have you got a 1 milliliter syringe? Or a 1 milliliter dropper?

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

izhca said:


> It is a hard tablet....ill wait for your answere


OK good, I will prepare instructions for you for mixing up the medicine.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

he weights about 226g weight, half a pound, no i dont have the syringe but i can go buy one now, no problem


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That helps! With that, Karyn can figure up the best way to dose the bird a lot more easily. We often dose birds with a 1 milliliter syringe to make it easy and prepare a mixture that works well that way. 

I usually do it differently because I've got a scale that reads down to two milligrams. As such, I just weigh it out and dose them straight. But one of the old ways was always to mix the drugs in as little water as possible to dose them.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I want you to crush up the tablet into as very fine a powder as you can, I use a shot-glass (used to measure alcoholic drinks) and the end of a small kitchen knife I have that is round on the end.

To this I want you to add 10mL of honey, to measure this use a cooking teaspoon, this will be 5mL, do this twice, do not use a plain flatware teaspoon it must be a cooking measuring teaspoon to be accurate. Stir this up very well together, let sit 20 minutes, stir very well again and you will have a 6% suspension (60mg/mL) ready to dose with.

We want to dose him at 50mg/kg BID (twice a day ie; every 12 hours). This means that at 226g you little guy needs to get 11.3mg every 12 hours. If you get a 1cc syringe you will measure to the second line, 0.20cc, at the concentration the medicine is mixed at this will be 12mg, and while a little above the exact dose called for it should be fine for him. If you can not get a 1cc syringe tonight, 0.20cc is approximately 4 drops, you wash the end of a ballpoint pen, dip it into the medicine and let 4 single drops fall into his mouth if need be, until you can get a syringe.

Stir the medicine very well anytime you will be drawing a dose and refrigerate between use. At 226g we need to keep working on getting some food into this little guy as this is a light weight.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

hi, i have the syringe...but we use ml here not cc so its marked in ml please wait to se if i can figure it out....i may need more explanation


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Izhca, no problem, 1cc = 1mL, they equal the same thing. So you will be giving 0.20mL, still to the second line on the 1mL syringe.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

....let me see if i get it straight....i crush the 500mg tablet and mix it with 10 ml of honey (bee honey works? its quite thick or wich kind should i use).....and mix it all together let it rest for 20 min, stir again and its ready to use?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

izhca said:


> ....let me see if i get it straight....i crush the 500mg tablet and mix it with 10 ml of honey (bee honey works? its quite thick or wich kind should i use).....and mix it all together let it rest for 20 min, stir again and its ready to use?


Yes, you have the instructions right and yes, bee honey, medium thick.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

thank you so much guys i will do it right away and i will try to get the canker medicine tomorrow....
Juan....


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

izhca said:


> thank you so much guys i will do it right away and i will try to get the canker medicine tomorrow....
> Juan....


Juan, sounds good, please keep us updated.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi Karyn and Pidgey....i gave the medicine to my litle bird last night and this morning too... and feed him as you told me but he is still looking reaallly bad even weeker than yesterday i think.... he is all the time stand in the same place wont move at all he dont make any sounds anymore he is not even drinking wather and i found more traces of blood in the beak....and the smell is bad... and he has now both eyes swollen i can continue giving him everything you tell me of course, ill do wath you tell me, but he is looking preety bad......im not sure if he is digesting the food properly because the drops are withe and in very small amount...at this point im really doubting if he is really gonna make it....i got the metronidazole in a normal drugstore they didnt have it on the other store...i have one 500mg hard tablet.....i will wait for ur answere to see what i do....Juan....
(should i try to give him more liquid food so he dont has to make too much effort at swalloging? seems like he really doesnt want to eat at all)


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Juan, OK, do not try and feed him any more food right now.

I want you to cut the 500mg Metronidazole pill in half and put the other half away. Take the 1/2 pill you have and crush it into as fine a powder as you can and add 5mL of warm water to this and stir in. If you can find a small bottle, add this into the small bottle and shake for a minute. I want you to then take the 1mL syringe you have and draw out 1mL (this is full) and give this to your little guy, draw the dose out quickly after shaking, so the Metronidazole does not settle out, this will be 50mg. There after, I want you to give him 0.50mL (this is 1/2 syringe) every 24 hours, this is 25mg.

One hour after giving the medicine I want you to take the 1mL syringe and get some slightly warm water and give him 5mL of water (1mL syringe full 5 times). Tilt his head slightly down in your lap and have him wrapped in a small towel for control, dribble the water to the side of his beak, do not shoot it into his mouth. We want to get 20-30mL of water into him over the course of a day.

All we can do right now is get the meds into him, keep him warm and well hydrated and hope there is enough time for the medicines to do their job. Sometimes we get them too late to help them, but while there is life there is hope, so we will keep trying for him.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok Karyn....i will do everything you said...thanks...


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

should i give the wather with a litle bit of honey???? so he gets some calories? or just wather?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

izhca said:


> should i give the wather with a litle bit of honey???? so he gets some calories? or just wather?


Yes, you can do this, but do this every second time. The reason is that liquids that have a calorie content above a certain level are treated by the body as a "food" and do not do the same job as hydrating as just plain water or a re-hydration fluid. 

If you want to make a proper hydration fluid to give you can add 1 teaspoon of sugar, 1/8 teaspoon salt and a pinch of baking soda (bicarbonate of soda) to 250mL of water and give this. You can still later him the same fluid with a bit of additional honey for energy and calories (every second time).

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi guys ... my litle bird is still looking the same ... what should i do today?? maybe feed him a litle bit more?? cause yesterday i almost didnt give him any food as you told me just a litle bit of finely ground corn with wather and honey...very watered and a think it was easier to swollow... should i do the same today?... i didnt find the bicarbonate of soda just bicarbonate of sodium so i skeep that...i also need to know how many days should i give him the metronidazole?

Juan


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Several. We'll go for for a week on the Metronidazole. Keep smelling him to see if his breath is getting any better--these things don't resolve immediately and they can be fatal so it can go either way. I was actually worried that he wasn't going to make it through the night.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Juan, as Pidgey says, this little guy will have to stay on both medicines for at least several days. I as well was worried that he would not make it through the night and I agree with Pidgey, things can still can go either way for him.

Cases like this a very tough, even for people with experience, because there is so much balancing to do between meds, hydration and the need for food/calories and is especially hard when the sick bird is low in weight and in a weak state. I would go one more day without any solid food, just lots of fluids and the reason is when they are at a tipping point, which your little guy could be, is sometimes feeding them solid food can actually make them worse, but to help compensate for this you can up the amount of honey/water and concentration you are giving him. You can add 1 teaspoon of honey (5mL) to two ounces of hydration fluid (60mL) and give 6mL of this every second time you are giving fluids (alternate plain hydration then honey/water, every few hours, just make sure his crop- "his food/water storage area" - is emptying well). Just keep doing what you are doing and we will continue to hope the meds start to really take hold.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

ok thanks for all of your advices......one question i save the same madicines from one day to another...or i make new ones every day i know i can keep the sulfa in the fridge is the same with the other one??


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, you can keep the Metronidazole in the refrigerator as well.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

*Updates*

Hi Pidgey and Karyn, first of all i want you to know that i really apreciate all of your help.....my litle bird is still looking the same but with litle changes....well yesterday i know i wasnt suposed to feed him but my father did without telling me!!!! i got really upset about it....anyway there was a biger amount of dropings this morning and more solid (remember i told you he was barely doing any?) i guess thats good? should i feed him today again or not? but there is one thing i also noticed the nose orifices on the beack are swollen i check the inside of the beack and smell it, the smell was better than the other day, but i noticed the interior of the beack is not completely pink is kind of yellowish and has something like a litle bit of a yellowish paste on the top side looks like tartar....im giving him the medicines as you told me and the wather too but he refuses to, he always shakes his head and spit out away half of everything i give.......


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Juan, thanks for all the detailed information. This still can go either way, but I take it as a good he has survived another day. What you describe sounds like an infection we call "canker" which is a protozoal infection and the treatment for this infection is with Metronidazole, which you are giving and for bad cases could take 7-14 days to clear up. It could also be a bacterial infection, but the chances are less for this and the Trimethoprim/Sulfa you are treating with will cover this possibility.

OK, starting today you can start to feed him some solid food, only feed a little at a time and do this every few hours. Try not to give the medicine at the same time as any food, try and to give them an hour away from each other. You can give the two medicines at the same time, every 12 hours, but wait an hour before or an hour after to feed. You can give some fluids just after feeding and you can continue to give him honey/water for extra energy and calories.

Karyn


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Ok...so ill give him the Metronidazole every 12 hours too....i was doing it every 24 hours as you told me....


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## izhca (Feb 24, 2011)

Should i continue with the 1/2 ml dose????


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

izhca said:


> Ok...so ill give him the Metronidazole every 12 hours too....i was doing it every 24 hours as you told me....


Juan, sorry, you are quite right the Metronidazole is every 24h and the Trimethoprim/Sulfa every 12h and you will give 0.50mL (1/2mL) every 24h, this will be 25mg.

Karyn


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