# Canker or something else? Metronidazole isn't working.



## atete (May 18, 2012)

12 days ago I picked up a little pigeon, it was chased by cats and could not fly properly. I brought it home, it was very thin. Also, it was lame on one leg. I examined the leg, and could not find any injuries. I examined the throat and it was clean. I decided that it was an internal canker and put the bird on metronidazole. It didn't eat by itself and I hand-fed it. Today, I put some food into the beak, and the bird could not swallow, I thought that maybe it was gone into a wrong place, so I took it out and looked inside. All the throat was covered in canker white bumps, and the bird could not swallow! 
I don't understand it. How can this bird develop a canker in the throat while on metronidazole for 12 days? Is there some other disease of the throat which looks like canker? 
Also, if it's canker, what do I do? I don't have any other drugs, I used to buy imported ronidazole from some guy, but he doesn't sell anymore due to war. There are no vets, of course, too. Are there any substitute antibiotics which can be bought in a human pharmacy? Evidently metronidazole isn't working. 
Also, I am worried about the bird's liver. Help!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

What made you think it was internal canker?

Anyway, I see two options (may be others of course):

1) you have good reason to think it is Canker, in which case I would be fairly surprised that Metronidazole did not work. There are strains of Canker that could be resistant to some treatments, but it would be much less likely in a young feral than in a loft. Only thing I could suggest is ordering another med using the internet.

2) it isn't Canker, but a fungal/yeast infection. For that we would use Nystatin which is used as a human anti-thrush medicine so should be in pharmacies. No idea if they have it where you are, obviously, under that name. I would not know the dosage for pigeons - we have it as a powder to be mixed with water, by the trade name Medistatin and sold only by veterinary med companies.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

If is young pigeon, he can't have internal but external canker. Only adult pigeons have internal or wet canker. External canker is under the form of yellow nodules in mouth, neck and / or crop. If you don't see any yellow formations in throat or feel nodules in neck or crop, I doubt is canker. A sign of canker in young pigeons is the lack of feathers around the beak.

Candida appears as few or many white spots, like membranous plaques. If the mouth is invaded by Candida, it means the internal organs are in even more advanced invasion and only nystatin is of little use, as is not systemic medicine but topic, it doesn't enter the blood, only threat the mucosa of digestive tract.

Use Fluconazole, 1-2 mg / day. A capsule usually has 100 mg (can also have 150 or esle) so you divide the content in half, than again in half and so on until you reach a hundred part. You put that part in a little well moistured piece of bread (as small as possible) and make him swallow. Don't try to mix it with water as much of the medicine will be lost before entering his mouth.

If the bird seems healthy and robust, you may try to give Itraconazole instead of Fluconazole, also 1-2 mg / day. Itraconazole comes in capsules filled with small balls - the medicine. You have to count all those small balls to know how many are in a capsule and then see how many balls make a mg. In my case, I had an 100 mg capsule containing 750 balls so 1 mg = 7 or 8 balls. So you give like 7 balls, also in a little piece of moisted bread.

And also give Nystatin and continue the treatment until you see the white membranes from mouth fall off.

Possibly to have both Canker and Candida but for Candida I'm pretty sure.

Because anti-fungal medicines are toxic to liver, give some hepatoprotective supplements which you must find at veterinary or pet shops. There are also for humans at human drugstore. See the dosage for kg of body mass. 

I cured today a bird of a big Candida infection this way but if your bird has a very advanced disease, nothing may work. My bird is also robust and I gave both Itraconazole and Fluconazole but for a baby is too mcuh I think. Itraconazole is more powerful but also more toxic.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A young pigeon can have internal canker. They can get naval canker, which can spread elsewhere inside.

How much Metro were you giving the bird daily, and how were you giving it?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

All Canker is 'internal' anyway. Trichomonas cannot last very long outside the host, so they do not form canker nodules outside. As Jay says, navel canker begins inside though it pushes out.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Vets make a distinction between the canker in young pigeons, that appears as yellow nodules and is called dried canker and canker in adults, which lines the intestines and is called wet canker, usually having no visible manifestations on organs.

I might have used wrong the term internal canker, thinking is refered only to wet canker.


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