# Canned Pigeon Hunt Exposed on CNN Headline NEWS show TONIGHT



## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

30 September 2010 


Canned Pigeon Hunt Exposed on CNN Headline NEWS show TONIGHT


FreeAnimalVideo.org alerted UPC to the CNN TV Show that is highlighting a pigeon shoot story tonight. HERE is the information: 

TONIGHT : Animal Activist and Television Host Jane Velez-Mitchell will expose the October 3 Pigeon Shoot in PA thanks to SHARK (SHowing Animals Respect and Kindness). 

Please set your recorders and share the news so that this segment earns great ratings. Good ratings on these animal stories encourage places like CNN to do more animal protection stories! 

WATCH: Issues: With Jane Velez-Mitchell
http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/issues.with.jane/ 
Headline News Channel 
7pm EST (4pm PST) 

And be sure to give them positive feedback!
Send a positive message to CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?106. 

If you know reporters that might be interested in carrying the story, there is information below and FREE video (courtesy of Sharkonline.org) they can use here: http://freeanimalvideo.org/breaking-news 

15,000 Domestic Birds to be Shot for Target Practice 
Activists travel to Pennsylvania almost every week to attend the pigeon shoots and document the event. They point out that Pennsylvania’s Animal Cruelty Law, Title 18, section 5511, prohibits a person from wantonly or cruelly ill-treating or abusing any animal. The law also prohibits neglect, abandonment, and deprivation of food, drink, shelter, or veterinary care. Pigeon shoots violate every one of these prohibitions. All of the information including videos can be downloaded below or at PigeonShoots.com. 

Pigeon shoots are competitions wherein hundreds to thousands of live birds are shot at to win prizes. A typical 3-day shoot contest can kill and injure up to 15,000 birds. The next canned pigeon shoot event is scheduled for October 3, 2010. 

The pigeons are captured and collected for weeks ahead of time, then released from trap boxes only yards away from the so-called “sportsmen”. The birds are generally dazed and suffering from dehydration or starvation as they are sprung out of the boxes. 

Rather than mercifully being given a quick death, 70% of the birds are injured when shot and either left to suffer slow deaths or collected and killed by pigeon shoot “trapper boys” or “wringers”, traditionally children, who break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses. 

Pigeon shoots are nothing more than a vile excuse for entertainment for the dull-witted or psychopathic. Illegal in other countries and in all but a couple of American states, most people realize the despicable nature of these bird-killing contests. 

Activists vow to take the war against Pennsylvania’s remaining live pigeon shoots directly to the people, aided by a $1 million gift from former television personality Bob Barker. 

Legislation is pending in both the Pennsylvania House and Senate (H.B. 1411/S.B. 843) to ban the killing of animals launched for trap shoots or tied in place for block shoots. Activists say: Vote YES on H.B. 1411/S.B. 843 to stop live animal shoots. 

About SHARK 
SHowing Animals Respect and Kindness (SHARK) is a non-profit organization founded in 1993 by Steve Hindi. With a small core of volunteers and approved humane investigators, SHARK battles tirelessly against bullfighting, pigeon shoots, turkey shoots, canned hunts (and all hunting), rodeos, circuses, zoos, and marine parks… any issue that involves violation of the innate rights of living creatures. 

Contact: Steve Hindi – President/Founder 
Email: [email protected] 
Phone: 630-557-0176


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

now that is wha Im talkin' about!!! more coverage! great...


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

While I don't in any way support live shooting of captive birds or animals and appreciate the post, I find the following statement disgusting and in all probability not true

*children, who break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses*. 

If such was true and proof available, then there would be charges of cruelty made, people would go to jail and the event canceled until such time as appropriate changes were made. 

Scaremongering tactics of including disgusting descriptions of cruel and barbaric acts committed by children in this article only serve to lessen the impact of the main message.

It has turned me off.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The segment last all of 60 seconds, with video, and though brief...it certaily got the point across.

...it is true...it happens and if we all can get our heads out of the sand and stand up against it...just maybe we can stop it.


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

fearmongering?!?! Really?


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

_*children, who break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses. *_

It IS true and it is documented. EVERYTHING that happens at the shoot is documented and illegal and still- it is done and 15,000 pigeons will be tortured this way this Sunday.

_*Activists travel to Pennsylvania almost every week to attend the pigeon shoots and document the event. They point out that Pennsylvania’s Animal Cruelty Law, Title 18, section 5511, prohibits a person from wantonly or cruelly ill-treating or abusing any animal. The law also prohibits neglect, abandonment, and deprivation of food, drink, shelter, or veterinary care. Pigeon shoots violate every one of these prohibitions. All of the information including videos can be downloaded below or at PigeonShoots.com. *_

People pull the teeth from bears, tether them in rings and sic round after round of dogs after them for sport. People capture foxes and coyotes and release dogs into large pens to chase them down and tear them apart. People skin animals alive in the fur trade. People are doing all kinds of terrible things to animals, legal and illegal, because not enough of us have stepped forward to save these innocents from the cruelty. 

*TAKE ACTION:

Please call PA Governor Ed Rendell and PA Attorney General Tom Corbett. Tell them that this weekend a major violation of State law is going to occur. Demand that they take action to uphold the laws and principles of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and stop this shoot now. 

Please call and write them today and all week.

Attorney General Tom Corbett:
Phone: 717-787-3391
Fax: 717-787-8242
EMAIL

Governor Ed Rendell:
Phone: (717) 787-2500
Fax: (717) 772-8284
EMAIL*


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

If this is true you Americans must have the puniest child protection laws in the civilized world. This behavior in Canada would see the children removed from their parents care and placed under the child protective services of the state.

How about showing me this proof.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

maniac said:


> If this is true you Americans must have the puniest child protection laws in the civilized world. This behavior in Canada would see the children removed from their parents care and placed under the child protective services of the state.
> 
> How about showing me this proof.


It IS deplorable, Maniac. Here's a link with about 10 minutes of video: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000854 

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Charis said:


> The segment last all of 60 seconds, with video, and though brief...it certaily got the point across.


And here I was getting all PO'ed because I thought they didn't air the segment at all .. I DID see the very short clip and figured that was just a "teaser". I really wish they would have covered this story in more depth. I sat and watched the whole hour waiting and waiting for the pigeon piece. I'd have voted to can the Anna Nicole Smith segment and use that time to try and help the pigeons. I really have to wonder sometimes about what the media perceives to be important .. guess it's more about what people are interested in watching .. sad ..

Terry


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Thank you for the link.

I deplore such barbarous acts of cruelty committed against any animal, this is an unnecessary, uncivilized and shocking waste of life. 

I remain cynical tho of organizations such as PETA and SHARK solely for their well documented use of over-statement and half truths to attract support to their cause.

While one of the videos certainly documents cruel treatment by children, it doesn't come close to the statement I found contentious. That statement inferred deliberate, committed and wanton cruelty being committed by young children.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I did not realize the shoots were illegal... why is the law not involved then?.. Im confused..


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I waited and watched also and couldn't believe how little time it was allowed. What I did see was very upsetting, though. Maybe they thought a little too disturbing for public interest? Beats me...


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I watched a few of the clips on YOU TUBE (made my wife cry) these people are SICK. I did notice that most of the birds that were shot were homers to think people in our sport would cull the birds that way is, well i can't use that kind of language. I better stop here.
Dave


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## piigeon (Sep 28, 2010)

Elizabethy said:


> _*children, who break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses. *_
> 
> It IS true and it is documented. EVERYTHING that happens at the shoot is documented and illegal and still- it is done and 15,000 pigeons will be tortured this way this Sunday.
> 
> ...



I am shocked!

If you do this here in luxembourg to a pigeon you would really go to prison! the reason would be:

"An Animal Abuser is of a sick mind, and could do this also to children, so he has to be arrested art 27, 8"
This is cruel and i don't understand why such a thing is possible in america?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

maniac said:


> Thank you for the link.
> 
> I deplore such barbarous acts of cruelty committed against any animal, this is an unnecessary, uncivilized and shocking waste of life.
> 
> ...


*Rather than mercifully being given a quick death, 70% of the birds are injured when shot and either left to suffer slow deaths or collected and killed by pigeon shoot “trapper boys” or “wringers”, traditionally children, who break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses. *

Where do you think the term "wringers" comes from? Be in denial all you want. Rant against PETA and SHARK all you want. However, don't EVEN think about dismissing the horror that goes on at these shoots because "Scaremongering tactics of including disgusting descriptions of cruel and barbaric acts committed by children in this article only serve to lessen the impact of the main message."

Also, the children I saw in the video are children. Maybe not what you imagined, but children. Not that the word "young" was used with "children" only by you.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

_Rather than mercifully being given a quick death, 70% of the birds are injured when shot and either left to suffer slow deaths_

In fact I did not see one clean kill, I only saw what they wished me to see..100% suffering. Overstatement ?
.......................................................................................................
_Where do you think the term "wringers" comes from?[/I

Call me stupid but until the advent of modern killing machinery, poultry were killed by "wringing" or chopping. It has an equivalent in hanging.
.......................................................................................................
break their necks, step on them, tear off wings, suffocate them, or cut off their heads with garden shears, among other abuses

I saw some of these things.. but not the tearing off of wings or decapitation by garden shears ... Exaggeration ?
.......................................................................................................
Also, the children I saw in the video are children.. 

Semantically you are correct although I have never met a child who would/could treat any animal like that. Perhaps teenager would have been closer to the truth and less of an overstatement.
.......................................................................................................

I have not ranted against PETA or SHARK and I stated quite clearly my distaste for animal abuse. 
nuf said._


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Sorry ... not enough said.

There are two types of pigeon people on this site. Pet lovers who treat their birds as part of their family, similar to the way they treat their dogs or cats. Then there are the racers who enjoy the competitiveness of racing each other.
From what I understand from reading the many posts in this genre, the most popular type are young bird races. It seems from the posters own admissions that they suffer some heavy losses of these birds which could very well be fodder for the the very same SHARK organization. It is after all cruel to release pigeons that have no experience to fend for themselves and will surely starve to death, be ripped apart alive by a cat or other predator ... do you see where this going, do you think you can't be targeted ....

to quote another poster here ... be careful what you wish for


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

I have NEVER lost one of my yb's because as it was released someone was there to shoot it down. Your comparison is weak as is you argument. Grasping and inflamitory at best. Just so you know anyone can be made a target, but rather than stick my head in the sand when something isn't right I'm going to take action. Oh and by the way SHARK and PETA are nutcases, so I'm with you on that

Jason


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

Where are PETA and HSUS when they are needed?


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

*Answers from SHARK regarding my request for more info*

The pigeon shoot this Sunday is going to be at the Erdman's Sportsman Association in Lykens, PA in Dauphin County.

There will be another pigeon shoot later this month - twice a month starting in October until Spring at the Pikeville Township Sportsman Association in Oley, PA in Berks County.

We have links to videos of the pigeons shoots at the www.pashame.org 
The pigeon shoot video titled NRA Supports Pigeon Shoots shows a lot of the pigeon cruelty.

Thanks for your great work as shown on your website link!

Janet
SHowing Animals Respect and Kindness
P. O. Box 28
Geneva, IL 60134

To donate to SHARK to help the animals, go to: sharkonline.org

- Show quoted text -
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Elizabeth Young <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello-

I'm sending out info and the PA govenor's and DA's office's contact info and have been asked WHERE in PA this pigeon shoot is going to be held (city and county).

Also- the part about children stepping on, tearing the wings off, etc. of pigeons has been challenged as false. Do you have proof of that that I can share?

THANK YOU for working to help bring this nightmare to end. It is too depraved and cruel to even imagine.

Elizabeth, MickaCoo Pigeon & Dove Rescue
-- 

Until they all have homes, don't buy, don't breed- adopt.
www.RescueReport.org
www.MickaCoo.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjyooh3Yo0


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

atvracinjason said:


> I have NEVER lost one of my yb's because as it was released someone was there to shoot it down. Your comparison is weak as is you argument. Grasping and inflamitory at best. Just so you know anyone can be made a target, but rather than stick my head in the sand when something isn't right I'm going to take action. Oh and by the way SHARK and PETA are nutcases, so I'm with you on that
> 
> Jason


Sorry, you misunderstood. The point I was making here is that organizations like PETA and SHARK can choose to target any activity that *they* feel is cruel and inhumane (by their definition). If YB racing were to be defined to be cruel and inhumane (because of bird losses) then you could be sure that pigeon racers would become targets.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

maniac said:


> Sorry ... not enough said.
> 
> There are two types of pigeon people on this site. Pet lovers who treat their birds as part of their family, similar to the way they treat their dogs or cats. Then there are the racers who enjoy the competitiveness of racing each other.
> From what I understand from reading the many posts in this genre, the most popular type are young bird races. It seems from the posters own admissions that they suffer some heavy losses of these birds which could very well be fodder for the the very same SHARK organization. It is after all cruel to release pigeons that have no experience to fend for themselves and will surely starve to death, be ripped apart alive by a cat or other predator ... do you see where this going, do you think you can't be targeted ....
> ...


You seem very defensive of this club and their practices.

Watch this video, and tell me that all of the prior information is "scaremongering."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9rhnoaGUY


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Or go to The New York bid club, forums, and watch the vids they have. If a 12 year old kid isn't a child then I dont know what is.
Dave


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

ptras said:


> You seem very defensive of this club and their practices.
> 
> Watch this video, and tell me that all of the prior information is "scaremongering."
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9rhnoaGUY


Really !! defensive of !! What statement have I made for you to make that assumption.

As far as the video goes it's brutal viewing but that guy is the oldest child I have ever seen.

I don't get it, I honestly don't
Pigeon shoots are apparently legal but there are others laws dealing with animal cruelty that should override them and justify prosecution of the organizers and participants.

According to SHARK sources, 70% of the pigeons are wounded and need to be euthanized to end their suffering. SHARK's position is that children are employed to collect and do this but these children purposely render horrible suffering and indignities to these birds.

To my knowledge SHARK has not offered a more humane solution to end the suffering and indignities to the pigeons. 
SHARK has adopted the classic stance of talking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. One side screams to the public about the cruelties perpetrated on the birds by shooters and the State and asks for donations to fight this heinous crime. The other screams at the public about the cruelties perpetrated on the birds by shooters and children yet does nothing directly to stop the pain, only using that suffering to gain support and donations.

I don't believe for one moment that the law cannot be applied in this case if in fact laws are being broken. Are the citizens of the State of Pennsylvania so handicapped that they cannot force the law to be upheld except on the whim of some district attorney ?. Is SHARK such a weak lobbyist that they cannot get the law upheld ? perhaps is it to their benefit that things move slowly. How many of you have actually looked at the organization, it's officers, how the money is spent, what portion of donations are spent on the administration of the organization ? few if any i"ll bet.

So what happens when someday after thousands more birds have been cruelly butchered, have suffered enormously at the hands of shooters and children, laws banning pigeon are passed and SHARK has taken the credit. Do they fade away ?. Not on your Aunt Fanny does that happen ... a new target will be selected and the whole process will begin again.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Sorry, folks .. I don't often take a real strong stand here BUT .. this CRAP and CRUELTY in Pennsylvania needs to be stopped. I don't really care who puts a stop to it, but it needs to be stopped. If these a**holes can't kill a pigeon dead when it's already half dead and released right in front of them, then how can they consider themselves "sportsmen"?. This is no sporting event .. it's just a horrific maiming and killing of pigeons. It's barbaric, the participants are obviously uncaring and unskilled, and it's really horrific that they not only let but encourage their children to participate in this butchering of the pigeons. This is pretty sick s**t in my mind.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

maniac said:


> Really !! defensive of !! What statement have I made for you to make that assumption.
> 
> As far as the video goes it's brutal viewing but that guy is the oldest child I have ever seen.
> 
> ...


Great points Maniac .. meanwhile .. who's going to try and stop 15000 pigeons from being horribly killed on Sunday? That's the real issue at the moment. 

I see your "points", and will get to those when I can .. again meanwhile .. who is going to stop these 15000 pigeons from being killed on Sunday?

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> Really !! defensive of !! What statement have I made for you to make that assumption.
> 
> As far as the video goes it's brutal viewing but that guy is the oldest child I have ever seen.
> 
> ...



That is quite apparent. You don't get it. Pigeon shoots are barbaric. Torturing birds for sick enjoyment, and bringing their kids in on it. It needs to be stopped. The videos are real. You can call it fear mongering, and you can pick apart everything they say if it makes you feel better. But that doesn't change the truth of what goes on at these shoots. Do you just enjoy arguing, or are you afraid that they will go farther than just stopping pigeon shoots? And if that be the case, does it make it easier for you to stick your head in the sand or look the other way, because you think that down the road racing will be the target? Sure sounds like that is where you are coming from. We are talking about the shoots here, and they need to be stopped. Either you agree, or you don't. Which is it?


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## Possum Fat (Mar 18, 2010)

Ive hunted and fished my whole life. I've done so ethically and legally. I eat what I catch or kill; what doesn't fit in the icebox gets donated to the local youth shelter. PETA and SHARK don't care...to them I'm no better than these pigeon shooters. Let's not forget..its these same kind of activists who want pigeon racing made illegal. They'll steal your birds and burn your kitbox faster than you can say "vegan hippy".

On the other hand....

As I said before, I am a hunter. And as an ethical hunter, what these people are doing disgusts me. It brings shame to all outdoorsmen in the nation. It needs to be stopped. The issues of the children and it being illegal don't matter to me. Its the senseless killing of the birds that bothers me. They ain't gettin ate. Not going to feed the homeless. Hell, I bet they ain't even gonna give them to a hog farm, even. Just bury em. Guess I ain't surprised, considering the region.

So who's gonna stop it? I volunteer PETA and SHARK. Let them run out onto the field with a few hundred half drunk yankees with itchy trigger fingers. When the smoke clears, send the cops in to arrest the shooters. Both sides taken care of.

PF


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

This is TERRORISM on the poor creatures, why is the law enforcement authorities not involved ?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

sreeshs said:


> This is TERRORISM on the poor creatures, why is the law enforcement authorities not involved ?


Cuz this is rural Pennsylvania and they are all good old boys .. the law enforcement are likely to be participants in the "sport" or blood relations with at least half of the participants .. kinda hard to stop what you are a part of .. THIS IS STRICTLY A BIASED POST ON MY BEHALF AND NOT BASED ON FACT .. IT'S JUST MY OPINION.

Go looking for the videos and interviews from previous years .. my very inappropriate comment truly isn't too far off the mark.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Possum Fat said:


> So who's gonna stop it? I volunteer PETA and SHARK. Let them run out onto the field with a few hundred half drunk yankees with itchy trigger fingers. When the smoke clears, send the cops in to arrest the shooters. Both sides taken care of.
> 
> PF


Slick solution you have there, PF .. sadly you are coming across as a bit unbalanced yourself .. you might dislike what's happening there in Pennsylvania cuz it paints you with the same brush as the killers but you're not going to do anything about it yourself and are slamming the groups who are trying to stop this sick practice. I'm no huge fan of PETA .. don't really know enough about SHARK to comment, but anybody and any group that is working to get this stopped is OK with me for at least this one issue.

Terry


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## i_love_Calina (Sep 6, 2010)

I feel sorry for the little critters.

Unfortunately, not everyone appreciates life and these people have a different moral/way of life. 

Although I find it horrifying someone could kill an animal in this manner, it happens every day to all different species -- even humans. From what I hear, in poor parts of India it is common practice to disfigure children so they can receive more money while begging on the street. You can see some of this in Slumdog Millionaire, but I've heard from people who are from/have been there that they will even amputate these kids so they have to drag themselves around on skateboards.

Another example are the cheap meats. Foster Farms chicken for instance...The animals are treated like garbage. Heck, does anyone remember the KFC scandal where they tortured chicks? Many times these cheaper chicken can even be called Game meat because they were let out of their cage for 15 minutes in their entire life! 

Pigeons are considered pests and there are services you can hire to kill them -- they aren't even protected under the Wildlife Conservation act. 

The best solution I can come up with is to live in wealthier, more educated and progressive areas which are more likely to home more animal-friendly individuals. 
Do well in life and make lots of money so you can afford to bring animals into your community and help give them good lives. Money truly is power and people follow the examples of the rich. 

From personal experience, the wealthier a city, the better animals are treated (and by wealthy I mean average house price is around $800,000+ just to clarify). Heck, the city I aspire to buy my first home in (Carmel by the Sea) allows you to bring your dogs into all the shops and restaurants. Teachers in my highschool would bring their pets to class all the time. 

So yea, as much as I disagree with what these people are doing, I highly doubt it is illegal since pigeons sadly aren't seen the same way as other animals.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

i_love_Calina said:


> I feel sorry for the little critters.
> 
> Unfortunately, not everyone appreciates life and these people have a different moral/way of life.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but I don't see that as a solution. Living where animals are treated "better", really doesn't do a thing for these poor birds. I'm sure that some of us are living in better communities, but we are still able to care about the unfortunate victims in these situations. These shoots don't just go away, because you live in a utopia, where things are different. These things still go on. And knowing about all the other atrocities in the world, do not diminish the hell these birds are going through. That's like sticking your head in the sand and just not wanting to look at what is going on. These shoots need to be stopped, and with enough people fighting against them, one day they will be. Stopping them is the ONLY solution.


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## i_love_Calina (Sep 6, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Sorry, but I don't see that as a solution. Living where animals are treated "better", really doesn't do a thing for these poor birds. I'm sure that some of us are living in better communities, but we are still able to care about the unfortunate victims in these situations. These shoots don't just go away, because you live in a utopia, where things are different. These things still go on. And knowing about all the other atrocities in the world, do not diminish the hell these birds are going through. That's like sticking your head in the sand and just not wanting to look at what is going on. These shoots need to be stopped, and with enough people fighting against them, one day they will be. Stopping them is the ONLY solution.


*Do well in life and make lots of money so you can afford to bring animals into your community and help give them good lives. Money truly is power and people follow the examples of the rich. *

You aren't quoting everything I said. Maybe I should have been more clear, so I really apologize for that.  By no means am I suggesting that we stick our heads in the sand, but what I am suggesting is that we bring the animals from these areas into our communities where animals are treated more humanely. 

I agree that knowing that just because there are other atrocities like this in the world, it does not make things better, but I mentioned that to point out that this is not an isolated event. It is happening all around us, and people continue to get away with this cruelty. 

The laws are NOT going to change, until the general population's perspective on pigeons change. 

Simply put, the best way to put an end to pigeon cruelty is to change how people see them through power. I'm sure many of us have read Freakonomics, where they determined that there are names given to the children of the wealthy which start off rare, but gain popularity among the middle and lower class in later years. Designers pay celebrities to wear their products. If Bill Gates or Warren Buffet says something, you can bet people will listen because they aspire to be and be among the wealthy.

If you aren't rich and you aren't famous, you had better be blessed with stunning good looks and charm if you want people to take to your cause. 

People associate pigeons with the poor, lonely, depressed, dirty and ugly -- five traits nobody wants to be associated with. 

If pigeon enthusiasts start becoming known for their higher status, you can bet people are going to give pigeons a chance on a pet pigeon, "Hey, pigeons are actually intelligent, sweet, and fun animals." "Since I have a pet pigeon, I am of higher status."

This is especially great for my generation (Y) and generation X since people want everything to revolve around them (pigeons are loyal)AND they want to have that status (so we need to create a good name for ourselves).

You can bet if the pigeon is pet of choice among the rich, beautiful, smart, and famous...people are going to want to join the club, and after learning the beauty of the pigeon there is no way 1500 pigeons will legally be killed.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I Love Calina I see the logic of what you are suggesting however many rich and famous people own and race pigeons. Queen Elizebeth of England and Mike Tyson are just two of many who's names come to mind. They have little influence on the general public who fall prey to the false and misleading headline grabbing stories of filth and disease that pigeons carry, as portrayed in the media. 

People today have been dumbed down to the point where they no longer bother to investigate things they hear or read and sometimes see. For example the other poster who replied to your post failed to see the point you were trying to make, he only saw that you were not rabidly, vehemently opposed to the pigeon shoot therefore you were in favor of it. Another poster likened all of the shooters to hillbilly ******** based only on a few videos purposely showing stereotypicals although I would bet there are doctors, lawyers, teachers and other professionals amongst the shooters.


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## i_love_Calina (Sep 6, 2010)

maniac said:


> I Love Calina I see the logic of what you are suggesting however many rich and famous people own and race pigeons. Queen Elizebeth of England and Mike Tyson are just two of many who's names come to mind. They have little influence on the general public who fall prey to the false and misleading headline grabbing stories of filth and disease that pigeons carry, as portrayed in the media.
> 
> People today have been dumbed down to the point where they no longer bother to investigate things they hear or read and sometimes see. For example the other poster who replied to your post failed to see the point you were trying to make, he only saw that you were not rabidly, vehemently opposed to the pigeon shoot therefore you were in favor of it. Another poster likened all of the shooters to hillbilly ******** based only on a few videos purposely showing stereotypicals although I would bet there are doctors, lawyers, teachers and other professionals amongst the shooters.


You brought up a great point, but unfortunately most youth (the ones most prone to trying things because they are cool), could care less about Queen Elizabeth or Mike Tyson. I hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings as I appreciate both of these people, but Queen Elizabeth is too old fashioned, is not hip, and is frankly difficult to relate to. And as much as I love Mike Tyson, most people just see a below-average intelligence fighter who ripped some guys ear off with his teeth. :S

Sorry, I have been horrible about clarifying myself, although again, you def. brought about an excellent point! I guess for celebrities, I had in mind people that the youth mimic. Like I can guarantee that if a hott, young celebrity were strutting around with a pigeon on her shoulder, pigeons would boom in popularity. I had in mind someone like Megan Fox, Adriana Lima, or Rhianna -- girls would die to be like them, and they are also rich, popular, and intelligent. 

Or some really hott rappers such as T.I and Nelly -- what guy doesn't want to be considered cool, the leader, able to get any chick, and afford anything?
Heck, throw in some Reggaeton stars with the rappers such as Arcangel and De La Ghetto, or even Pitbull 

If hott celebrities (beauty is equated with cleanliness) have pigeons, it can really help change things. 

Of course, even if none of us become celebrities like the above, we can still become the "nouveau riche" and make pigeons are pet of choice. 

I agree that there are many different types of people who participate in this event, although I am sure we all wish they could be clumped together. 
Luckily, there isn't much status left to being a doctor or lawyer anymore so I don't think that should have much impact on how the general public sees pigeons. 

Take care~

PS: I forgot to suggest even ppl like Sylvester Stallone or some famous musicians known for being cool (ex. not cute and pop since that is such a leap from pigeons being dirty to cute and glitzy lol) such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, or even Leonard Cohen.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

maniac said:


> Another poster likened all of the shooters to hillbilly ******** based only on a few videos purposely showing stereotypicals although I would bet there are doctors, lawyers, teachers and other professionals amongst the shooters.


This other poster must be me! If you have not seen the video from previous years with the law "enforcement" on the job, then you need to go find the videos and have a look. If I'm not right, then enlighten me, please. I'm also quite sure that there are doctors, lawyers, and Indian chiefs as well as teachers and others that are shooters in this event. No real big surprise there to me.

I went to a Coot Shoot some years ago out here in So Cal .. it was a "legal" shoot as a depredation permit had been obtained to kill 200 Coots cuz they were ****ting on the grounds and sidewalks .. I was there to pick up the wounded. Most of the shooters at this "event" were professionals, at least in their chosen professions. They weren't professional shooters as none of them could hit the broad side of a barn. All they accomplished was to horribly maim about 100 Coots which then had to be tracked down and taken to the wildlife center by people like me. It was barbaric, ridiculous, and frightening that the folks with guns were allowed to have them let alone try to shoot something with them.

I was also at a Coot "poisoning" some years ago .. guess 200 Coots is the "magic" number cuz the HOA had the permit to kill 200 Coots with Avitrol. While this was horrific to see, I must say that the Avitrol was far more effective than shooters. Most of the birds drowned once the poison took effect and the rest were easily picked up by the pest control company and taken offsite for humane euthanasia .. HAH .. what a sad, sad joke about the humane part.

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> I Love Calina I see the logic of what you are suggesting however many rich and famous people own and race pigeons. Queen Elizebeth of England and Mike Tyson are just two of many who's names come to mind. They have little influence on the general public who fall prey to the false and misleading headline grabbing stories of filth and disease that pigeons carry, as portrayed in the media.
> 
> People today have been dumbed down to the point where they no longer bother to investigate things they hear or read and sometimes see.* For example the other poster who replied to your post failed to see the point you were trying to make, he only saw that you were not rabidly, vehemently opposed to the pigeon shoot therefore you were in favor of it. *Another poster likened all of the shooters to hillbilly ******** based only on a few videos purposely showing stereotypicals although I would bet there are doctors, lawyers, teachers and other professionals amongst the shooters.




Do not presume to know what I failed to understand, or what I think. As I said before, You just don't get it, and never will. I would say more, but you wouldn't get it anyway, and would therefore be a waste of time.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Terry, that must have been horrible. I can't even imagine witnessing that.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

*Do not presume to know what I failed to understand*

Ah .. but Jay3 .. I have not presumed anything, your posts are quite clear and precise, wrongheaded but clear and precise. Nowhere have I ever said I was in favor of the pigeon hunt yet you continue in your Don Quixote windmill chases.

TAWhatley.. Having relatives in rural Georgia makes me a little sensitive to streotyping and the allusion to people having been dealt with too few cards in their pack. Also, I know that this board has quite a few members from other ******* states who might feel a little miffed too although I'm sure no insult was intended


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

The way I'm reading this is that....I don't think anyone meant to insult anybody. These are just different people's opinions on a subject. I really don't think any member on this forum approves of these pigeon shoots.
I don't believe in stereotyping.........heck, I don't even know what qualifies someone to be called a "*******", I could be a ******* for all I know.
I really find most "humans" pathetic compared to other species. Humans act on selfish greed and emotion, which is evident by some of these post's - (again, NOT meant to insult any one person).
I understand what I love calina is saying, and with *her* generation it's probably true, Yet I don't agree with that solution.........it's pretty sad that a generation has to "follow" the "rich and famous". I'm going to take a quote from MY generation....."If Rhianna jumped off a bridge, would you follow her"? Get my drift? That solution would just be turning "pet pigeons" into a FAD.....not solving the overall problem. 
Perfect example's of how the "rich and famous" contribute to the problem of abuse and neglect - The movie's "Beverly Hills Chihuahua" and "101 Dalmations". EVERYBODY went out and bought a chihuahua and dalmatian, regardless of whether or not it was an appropriate breed for their household. Most of these "fad" dogs ended up in shelters! So much for the rich and famous 
Another post mentions that WE are at the top of the food chain. I don't agree with that either. The only advantage humans have is that we have a finger to pull a trigger *combined* with the lack of respect for life. That is what I find weak and pathetic. Left at their own "natural defenses", how would they fair against a grizzly bear, lion, or a fisher for example. Guess who would win that fight?
Sorry, I'm getting carried away here.......So, my opinion of these pigeon shoots is that the participants are a bunch of selfish, weak, lowlifes (whether they be doctors, lawyers, politicians, farmers, ceo's or garbage collectors), that have no respect for anything or anybody other than than own selfish greed to make themselves feel "tough" at the expense of helpless pigeons. 
And I also see a *Corrupt Government in Pennsylvania* for allowing these shoots with "illegal activity" ("animal abuse", and "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" - allowing children to commit illegal acts) to continue.
I think another poster had the best solution........We need to go OVER Pennsylvania's Government's HEAD and hit them where it hurts to get some kind of action......their wallets. And I also wish their was a way to have Federal Charges against the Government of Penn, and the Law Enforcement for NOT doing their jobs and allowing this to take place. If it was any of us, and we didn't do our job - We'd be removed!
Ahhhh, I feel better


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I think this is a pretty good statement,

*The way I'm reading this is that....I don't think anyone meant to insult anybody. These are just different people's opinions on a subject. I really don't think any member on this forum approves of these pigeon shoots.*

and I agree that the low slung insults are more in fun than in spite.


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## i_love_Calina (Sep 6, 2010)

maniac said:


> I think this is a pretty good statement,
> 
> *The way I'm reading this is that....I don't think anyone meant to insult anybody. These are just different people's opinions on a subject. I really don't think any member on this forum approves of these pigeon shoots.*
> 
> and I agree that the low slung insults are more in fun than in spite.


Agreed!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

maniac said:


> I think this is a pretty good statement,
> 
> *The way I'm reading this is that....I don't think anyone meant to insult anybody. These are just different people's opinions on a subject. I really don't think any member on this forum approves of these pigeon shoots.*
> 
> and I agree that the low slung insults are more in fun than in spite.


I am a great believer in finding the humor in any situation. Two subjects that I consider off-limits for humor are abuse of children and abuse of animals. If you think all of this is fun, maybe you should reconsider your priorities.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

*I am a great believer in finding the humor in any situation. Two subjects that I consider off-limits for humor are abuse of children and abuse of animals. If you think all of this is fun, maybe you should reconsider your priorities.*

So .... spousal abuse is OK in your book then


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

maniac said:


> TAWhatley.. Having relatives in rural Georgia makes me a little sensitive to streotyping and the allusion to people having been dealt with too few cards in their pack. Also, I know that this board has quite a few members from other ******* states who might feel a little miffed too although I'm sure no insult was intended


My husband is a born and bred Alabama boy .. Roll Tide .. nuff said there, I think! I'm a rural raised Mid-Western brat myself. I've got a really good handle on "*******" .. if the shoe fits, then wear it! Actually, I don't consider the PA folks to be ******** .. that would probably be an insult to ******** everywhere. 

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> *Do not presume to know what I failed to understand*
> 
> Ah .. but Jay3 ..* I have not presumed anything, *your posts are quite clear and precise, wrongheaded but clear and precise.* Nowhere have I ever said I was in favor of the pigeon hunt yet you continue in your Don Quixote windmill chases.*
> 
> TAWhatley.. Having relatives in rural Georgia makes me a little sensitive to streotyping and the allusion to people having been dealt with too few cards in their pack. Also, I know that this board has quite a few members from other ******* states who might feel a little miffed too although I'm sure no insult was intended



You sure have presumed something. You are the one who stated what I failed to see, and what I think. You are so looking to argue. 
I never said that you were in favor of the shoots. Those are your words, not mine. It's just that your arguments against the people who are trying to stop them are nonsense. Like you are trying to find fault, and twist what they say and do, just as you seem to like to do that with what others say. But this conversation is over as far as I'm concerned. The subject to start with, was the pigeon shoots. Not your opinion of PETA or SHARK, which you seemed so intent on sharing. I'm not going to wast any more time on this. More important things to do. Have a great day everyone.


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