# should I stop feeding the ferals?



## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Hey,

So this time last year I started feeding feral pigeons that would fly to my house from across the road. There were about 14 of them...I would always get worried that they'd get hit by a car or a tram flying over. One of them did and I felt terrible. Eventually a pmv virus spread about my city and all of them died and now I've got a new batch of pigeons who come to get food. It made me happy because there aren't many pigeons in Melbourne left. One man I know who fed over 100 ferals had all of his die and got none back. 

Anyway, today I saw that one got run over as well as a dove on the side of the road that I suspect got hit. Just the other day I saw a young pigeon walking across the busy road to get to my house, I don't know why he was walking..he can fly perfectly..I had to walk behind him to make him hurry up so he wouldn't get hit. But I just feel like I'm putting them in danger but I"m so conflicted because I'm giving them food and water and they're not going hungry. I'm just not sure if it's worth it if more are going to get run over. 

What do you think?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I would stop feeding there, pigeons are terrible about roads!. Is there a park nearby where they could be fed, or a piece of land that is accessible but enclosed, so they can forage without walking into a road? Pigeons will walk across or fly low and get hit .

When I worked in the city centre I was forever clapping my hands loudly or stepping in front of cars in front of cars to stop them because they were driving straight at a pigeon assuming it would fly off (or not caring if they killed it). When I was the one driving I often had to stop the car and clap my hands because that was the only way they would get off the road.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't think you need stop feeding them, but rather look for a safer place to feed them. 

So sad that all the Melbourne pigeons died. I am still so angry at the racing pigeon community down there for knowlngly spreading PMV around, instead of containing it when they still had a chance . When gets into my local flock, I think I will grab as many as I can keep, and then wash my hands of feeding the ferals. I couldn't stand the pain of watching so many slowly die.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think I would of fed them on the otherside of the road after the first one got hit.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> When gets into my local flock, I think I will grab as many as I can keep, and then wash my hands of feeding the ferals. I couldn't stand the pain of watching so many slowly die.


I totally understand how you feel, but feeding them regularly can help them get through the PMV. I used to be really crestfallen when I'd see PMV in my feral flock, but I found that as long as you find a way for a sick bird to walk away with a full crop every day for a couple of months, it can actually do great even with no other intervention. If you feed the sick bird out of your hand daily so that's it can peck at the seed, (which it can't on a flat surface), and protect it from the other ferals with your other hand so that it can eat in peace, it can fill up pretty well even if it takes a while. If I don't have time to do this on a particular day, I leave so much food that after every single pigeon is completely full and leaves there's still a lot left for the sick ones to have. Of course some cannot peck at all, and those only stand a chance if you take them in and hand feed them. But maybe, you have a much deadlier PMV strain in Australia and that also accounts for this incredibly high mortality. Of course Bella, I know you are already doing everything humanly possible to help out pigeons, and I'm not suggesting you can do anything more or different.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Eva,

Thanks heaps for your encouragment...I really appreciate it. I'm really scared of the way the PMV strain in Australia has been described in various reports from vets, pigeon clubs , the government, and people like the OP of this thread. They are all saying the mortality rate here is 100% once it gets into a flock, which isn't normal for PMV. There was talk about this being an endemic strain by the Victorian department of primary industries, but I haven't read any follow up on this. I hope this is all somehow wrong and the high mortality rate is simply because noone so far has cared enough about their birds to give supportive care. 

Another thing that really scares me about PMV is even if I can save some who get it, they would be non releasable or at least very vulnerable birds because the symptoms return during times of stress wouldn't they? I guess what I'm thinking is if I start taking in many pigeons with PMV, I would really have to consider the high probablility that it would be permanent, whereas my aviaries are already full.

Oh who am I kidding, I know if I see a bird with it, I'll try to save it. But if my whole flock gets it, the pain will be indescribable.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Unfortunately there's no where to feed them on the other side of the road. I feed them in my front yard and they sit on top of a shop across the road. I can't think of anywhere else I can feed them. Everywhere around me is quite busy...there is a park not that far away but I can't think of how they would know to go feed there?

I might just gradually start feeding them less and then no more because I don't think they would be okay if I go from feeding them 4 times a day to none at all?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> They are all saying the mortality rate here is 100% once it gets into a flock, which isn't normal for PMV. There was talk about this being an endemic strain by the Victorian department of primary industries, but I haven't read any follow up on this. I hope this is all somehow wrong and the high mortality rate is simply because noone so far has cared enough about their birds to give supportive care.


Well, I do hope it's the latter - it is a horribly disabling disease even if the virus itself is not deadly, and without support during PMV the mortality for ferals is probably 100% everywhere, especially in the cold of winter unless you get on their case right away. I have a hunch that how soon they get support may also influence how much of a recurrence in symptoms they experience later, but that's a total speculation on my part. Over the years my survivors seem to be doing about as well as those who haven't been sick with PMV, and I'm not really seeing the recurrence of symptoms in times of stress at least in situations like fights between pigeons or hawk alerts, which I would think are rather stressful. Maybe with greater stress than that the symptoms do manifest. One thing that does persist for all of them though is these horribly watery droppings, and I can't imagine that down the years that won't affect their health. 

Sorry Msmely, didn't mean to hijack your thread. 
I think weaning them off gradually is a good idea. If the park is not too far away and you go there to feed other pigeons regularly, I think your flock will find you sooner or later, particularly because they'll be forced to range more widely to look for food as you'll no longer be feeding them. And they will recognize you immediately. I recently read some research done by French scientists on pigeons and how they recognize people. One person would feed them, the other one would be hostile to them. Both were women of a similar build, age and skin color. The scientists tried to confuse the pigeons by having the two women swap clothes, but were totally unable to - and conclude that pigeons recognize individual's faces. They also retain the memory for a very long time.


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