# Blue bar Cock with red hen



## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

Hi All

I have 2 pairs of pigeons both the hens are red and the Cocks are blue but the bar colors are light and dark.I want to know the outcome from breeding them.Attaching pics of all the birds.I want to know the father nad mother of 1 pic as i want to have young birds like the blue cock with red neck and some red color in the flights.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

He appears to be dilute blue bar with bronze (some gimple bronze and maybe kite bronze or just carrying recessive red). Also smokey which helps express the bronze. From what I can see the hens are either ash-reds or very umimproved recessive reds. Looks like their flights have been pulled? Anyway, if they are ash-red based, all the hens from these pairs will be blue and all the cockbirds will be ash-red carrying blue. So yes, there is a good chance you will get similar looking birds from that pair, and they will be hens.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

Hi Mary

Thanks for your quick response and time to comment on the pics.These hen birds are not ash reds they are recessive reds but i donot know that recessive reds are develop from ash reds.Regarding the flights i have bought them from nearby loft and these birds fly back to their original loft again and again so we have cut the flights.In the coming season they will drop the flights one and one and get the new flights.I will post the pics at that time.Our lofts are different as we use to open them whole day and close the loft door in the evening.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

I am new to pigeon genetics so thought this forum will introduce me to some experts who have bread or have experience in pigeon colors but as i am researching it more and more i am finding that the fanciers who have some special color homers does not want to share information with others else they can post the pics of birds with their parents in case someone wants to breed the same color bird has a idea where to start from.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Surkha, 
1st, if you try to intimidate people into sharing info. then you can be nearly curtain that you'll get little or no help.
2nd, the bird that your attempting to duplicate is a color that can be caused by various different genetic factors, as Mary has already stated, therefore you've gotten almost all the advice available. You will just have to experiment with your birds to learn what recessive genes are hidden by more dominant genes in them.
3rd, my guess is that the color that you desire is caused by dilute, smokey and heterozygous rec. red as Mary eluded to. That just a guess since I've raised such homers, however, my rec. reds were a much richer red. Your reds are so washed out that it's questionable whether they're even rec. red.
4th, I'd recommend mating the desired cock to a red hen and if you don't get any young looking like the cock, after six or eight babies, then try mating him to the other hen. 
Note, all dilute youngsters will be hens. Sons and daughter from your desired bird may reproduce the color as well.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

tmaas said:


> Surkha,
> 1st, if you try to intimidate people into sharing info. then you can be nearly curtain that you'll get little or no help.
> 2nd, the bird that your attempting to duplicate is a color that can be caused by various different genetic factors, as Mary has already stated, therefore you've gotten almost all the advice available. You will just have to experiment with your birds to learn what recessive genes are hidden by more dominant genes in them.
> 3rd, my guess is that the color that you desire is caused by dilute, smokey and heterozygous rec. red as Mary eluded to. That just a guess since I've raised such homers, however, my rec. reds were a much richer red. Your reds are so washed out that it's questionable whether they're even rec. red.
> ...


Hi Tmass please send me some pics of the birds you have raised with smoky blue color and bronze neck.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Are they racers? Any particular strain?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Surkha, here is a pic for you.

This cock bird is het. rec. red, dilute and smokey. If I still owned this bird I'd take better pics, this is from 35mm photo. He and others like him were produced from yellow and red Trentons mated to blues or silvers, no relation to archangels.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for replying but i can't see the pics.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

tmass, I can see the pic fine. Is that typical of smoky dilute and het recessive red?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

I wouldn't call it typical, but it does occur periodically from rec. red and yellow Trentons mated with blues or silvers. The smokey gene has always come from the Trentons in my loft.


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## PigeonHandRearer (Sep 25, 2002)

I have a blue bar paired with a red check who have been my main breeders for quite a while now. Out of all their babies about 15, 2 were red check, 7 blue bar, 6 red bar
(old german owls)


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

PigeonHandRearer said:


> I have a blue bar paired with a red check who have been my main breeders for quite a while now. Out of all their babies about 15, 2 were red check, 7 blue bar, 6 red bar
> (old german owls)


Normally you would expect half the offspring to be cheque. I'm sure if you bred 100 birds from this pair the numbers would start to even out.

Was the cock bird (father) red or blue?


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> I wouldn't call it typical, but it does occur periodically from rec. red and yellow Trentons mated with blues or silvers. The smokey gene has always come from the Trentons in my loft.


Its an unusual look. One that I wouldn't expect from those genes. I really like it.


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

thepigeonkey said:


> Normally you would expect half the offspring to be cheque. I'm sure if you bred 100 birds from this pair the numbers would start to even out.
> 
> Was the cock bird (father) red or blue?


Unless the Red Check's second pattern gene is bar. Then you would expect about 3/4 of the offspring to be bar and 1/4 to be check.

Jim


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## PigeonHandRearer (Sep 25, 2002)

thepigeonkey said:


> Normally you would expect half the offspring to be cheque. I'm sure if you bred 100 birds from this pair the numbers would start to even out.
> 
> Was the cock bird (father) red or blue?


the father was red check and you are right there were another 2 babies that were blue & black check. completely forgot about them. still most were blue bar and red bar but I suppose that might have been because of the recessive genes - i dont know the parents of the parents


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