# Will they come back in the morning?



## TDRNC (Nov 28, 2014)

My 2 white homers are almost 3 months old. They loft fly no problem. I did this with them for about 2 weeks and then I went down the road 1/2 mile and they came back no problem after about 20 minutes or so. I took the next step and went 2 miles and they came back no problem. I just did my second release from the same 2 mile mark. The only change though was I guess I made the mistake of releasing them 20 minutes before sunset. It is a bright sunny day with no clouds so now it's dark and they haven't returned. Do you think they're hanging out somewhere. I haven't fed them for 24 hrs but they have water all day. I sure hope they come back tomorrow...what do you think?


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Were they routing out away from the loft out of sight for 15 or twenty minutes at a time when you were just loft flying? I usually loft fly for about a month. Dropping b4 dark is definitely dangerous. Keeping them hungry was good. Yes they should be home in the morning unless there lost, or an Owl gets them. Sorry I can't make it sound better...... Jim


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

Why would you hold feed from them for 24 hours ?


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## TDRNC (Nov 28, 2014)

On post that I've read they say to ensure the birds are hungry to give them the need to return.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

These are young birds still developing - no food for 24 hours -now they are out and maybe no food for another 12-24. You would not like to be without food for 36-48 hours. You have to use common sense - anybody that tells you to starve a pigeon to come home is a poor pigeon man. You can keep them a little hungry for control , but that is not necessary if you have good management practice. What energy can they have to come back without food. You can't drive your car without gas. Could you work at your job without food for 24 hours and be productive.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

bob prisco said:


> These are young birds still developing - no food for 24 hours -now they are out and maybe no food for another 12-24. You would not like to be without food for 36-48 hours. You have to use common sense - anybody that tells you to starve a pigeon to come home is a poor pigeon man. You can keep them a little hungry for control , but that is not necessary if you have good management practice. What energy can they have to come back without food. You can't drive your car without gas. Could you work at your job without food for 24 hours and be productive.



HERE HERE!!! Finally someone who is talking sense, its INSANE to starve a bird to come home, they wont have the energy to do so. They come for the LOVE of home, the perch, the loft, the mates, the bubs, the pigeoneer. NOT just for food, I have proven this over and over again in my loft when I have flown my males and they fly for 5-10 min and trap right back in for the hens. The hens dilly dally as they dont have desire to trap in unless on eggs. (and I dont fly when on fertile eggs nor fake eggs as to not stress my birds). I have had a hen awol for 3 days and she refused to trap in for love or money let alone seed. The ONLY way she trapped in was out of security when I tossed more birds, one was not enough, not 2, not 3 but 5 was the magic number and she came out of the trees like a rocket ship! SAFETY in numbers NOT food got her home. 

So your young could be HUNGRY looking for food, or they are near buy but scared to trap and come down cuz only TWO of them. Keep ur eyes to the skies if they are not back yet, you will have to entice them in, by putting fake birds near loft lol, that has also worked for me. Have they come back yet? Have you seen them in the area? I also had a single male go for 3 days, he would not come home till he was good and ready. 3rd day he was finally on neighbours roof, and I tossed two collector males and they brought him in. I have since flown him with no problems. But that was his virgin flight and he was enjoying it. Of course I was scared a hawk or owl would get him but I lucked out. You may too.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

I agree that you should not have to starve your birds to get them back in the loft. They are two, 3 month olds, that don't know that they have it made in the loft yet. At that age they have no motivation except the love of food and the handler. His only mistake was taking them on a drop so late and close to dark. My opinion. Jim


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

TDRNC did they trap in? Loft fly some birds if they are in the area they will follow them back home. I have had birds out on toss come back in the next day, believe it or not I get better results on long tosses than short tosses. Good luck...


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## pigeonflier (May 4, 2014)

I dont think he was starving them,, sounds like he was just feeding them once a day,, which is perfectly normal!!! Take it a little easy on the poor fellar,, for sure I dont see where he says he was starving them. But the releasing before sunset was the bad part of that there idea. You left them no time for error!! I would say that was your only mistake.


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

pigeonflier said:


> I dont think he was starving them,, sounds like he was just feeding them once a day,, which is perfectly normal!!! Take it a little easy on the poor fellar,, for sure I dont see where he says he was starving them. But the releasing before sunset was the bad part of that there idea. You left them no time for error!! I would say that was your only mistake.


I think so too. Many times I don't feed my birds on Fridays and I toss them on Saturday mornings and never had problems I think many people over feed there birds and that's why birds stay out on trees roof tops and electrical power lines. I always make sure my breeders have plenty of feed when feeding young but my flyers I keep them hungry and flying.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

Why is it normal to feed once a day ? Do you eat once a day. Your training a athlete -do athlete's eat once a day ?


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

This was taken from RACE PIGEON INSIDER MAGAZINE:

During the racing season, the main function of food is to provide the fuel for flying. Our common aim is to provide the racing pigeon with the best fuel for race day. To do this consistently we must have a good understanding of the food itself. 
By using the best quality grains and with a healthy race team, the fancier can now think about a racing mix appropriate for his particular family of birds and training methods. The mix chosen must provide a good balance of protein (amino acids) and for this to be achieved at least 8 different grains must be used. After this balance is achieved, the energy content of the mix becomes the most important part of successful feeding.

The feed system provides the race team with the correct energy levels for training and racing. The goal of feeding is to provide the training and racing pigeon with exactly enough (not too much and not too little) fuel (energy in the food) for sustained flight (loft exercise or racing). Of course, the fuel requirements of the training pigeon vary enormously from day to day. It is the constantly changing energy requirements of the competition pigeon that makes feeding such a challenge to even the best fanciers. The competition pigeon will not perform to its fitness level when the “energy balance” is incorrect. The “energy balance” must be assessed short term (daily) and long term (weekly) with fit flocks during the race season, because the fitness level will drop both when too much and too little energy is supplied. During young bird training special attention must be made to prevent depletion of the energy reserves in the liver and muscle.

Overfeeding relative to workload (positive energy balance) renders the race team less competitive because of excess baggage (“leady”). Excess energy is stored as fat with subsequent loss of buoyancy and fitness. It is well to remember that the excess energy of mixes which are too high in protein (legumes) relative to the work load will be stored as fat.

Underfeeding relative to workload (negative energy balance) renders the race team less competitive because of “depowering”. Feed systems low in energy relative to the workload of the race team will result in the depletion of the energy reserves in the liver, fat and muscle.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I feed twice a day. And WE are not attacking the GUY per se, just making it know that starvation to any degree is not the way to go with any bird. Their metabolism is fast, so they need small amounts or a full crop a few times a day. We were on the TOPIC of starvation or not, not saying HE starved them.


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## TDRNC (Nov 28, 2014)

Hi...when I woke up my birds were back at sun up. Regarding feeding. I am new to this but I built my loft where each birds has an automatic water source that provides water twice per day. I clean my loft every other day. Concerning feeding, I definitely don't starve them and feed them until they stop eating. I see both sides in my readings... Twice per day and once per day. I love my birds and want to do the right thing here but don't want them to not come back if they are not hungry.

Please forgive me if I gave the impression that I was starving them.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No no, you didnt give the impression, we were just on the topic of some people suggesting to do that. I think twice a day is a good way. I agree with you as well, free feed as much as they want till they stop then either take food away as I am told or leave it in till they finish it before you feed again. I have put the mesh on my feeders so they dont toss and or I just top up when done. Im glad they are back, and I would loft fly for a longer period before I toss again. Personally if you are not training for racing, I would just loft fly for pleasure. If racing then I defer to others on here with more knowledge as to how far and how soon.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

TDRNC said:


> Hi...when I woke up my birds were back at sun up. Regarding feeding. I am new to this but I built my loft where each birds has an automatic water source that provides water twice per day. I clean my loft every other day. Concerning feeding, I definitely don't starve them and feed them until they stop eating. I see both sides in my readings... Twice per day and once per day. I love my birds and want to do the right thing here but don't want them to not come back if they are not hungry.
> 
> Please forgive me if I gave the impression that I was starving them.


I'm glad you got your birds back safe. I have done the same thing starting out. It is a common mistake for newbies. On the plus side, now they know the loft is warmer and safer than sleeping in a tree! If I may ask, when loft flying do they route out of sight for periods of time to where you know they are familiar with the outlying area. If they are, keep up what you are doing with the exception of late drops. I know from your past posts you were/are feeding twice a day. If you plan a drop for the next day, *I* feed them the morning b4 normal and give them a small taste/or not, the evening b4. Then *I* put a lil food in the feeder after I load them up so it is there when they return. I bolded the I's because that is how I do it, you will come up with your own ways after you make a few more mistakes! lol. It is easy to get in a hurry and that is when you make mistakes. Good luck. Jim


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## TDRNC (Nov 28, 2014)

Hey pigeonjim....I think I'm going to do more loft flying. They do go only about a quarter mile or so in big circles but never out of sight from me. I guess I'm too excited about taking them with me to see if they'll make it back. It's so exciting to see them make it back and circle around my home. Just when I think they won't ever come back, they magically appear.


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