# Update on Lolita



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lolita, my PMV survivor is doing just great.
She's been here for a little over a month now and has become a great pet. She has no "fits, no torticollis, she is a normal pij. Only thing she can't fly. She is living in a cage in the living room away from my other pijies and gets about 3-4 hours of time out every day. She exercises her wings constantly and seems frustrated she can't fly, she is trying really hard, flapping and trying to take off.
I was wondering if anybody knows why PMV pijies can't fly. Will she ever be able to fly again?

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad to hear Lolita is doing so well, and I sure would continue to let her flap away.

I wonder if the neuro transmitters or some kind of memory is disconnected since this a neurological disease.

Maybe she is still not strong enough, as it takes quite a bit of energy and weight for flight. Has her breast muscle and weight increased to normal now? That may cause her not to fly.

I'm just guessing here, lets see what the experts have to say......
Hey Cynthia...can you shed some light on this when you find the time?  
Thanks


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Treesa,
I let her flap as much as she wants and praise her every time she does. That gets her even more excited and she flaps even more.
Her weight should be back to normal now, she is almost 600gr, a big bird, very beautiful. Still haven't figured out what breed though.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've got a large homer that was brought in with a comminuted fracture (it bled a lot as well so it might have even been compound or open) that tipped the scales at 605 grams. After the initial healing he eventually got to where he could flap real hard. I decided to put him on a weight loss program and so I used him for the hawk bait (he was protected so no real worry) in that trap for a couple of weeks. I didn't give him food while he was in the trap and so over the period, he lost about 80 grams (he needed to). Also, when I got him out, I'd hold him up and he'd try to fly to the loft. The lighter he got, the further he could fly. When I finally got the hawk, he fattened back up and can't fly now.

You can't tell by looking at this wings that he's got much of a problem. He can extend the wing and put power into the stroke. The break didn't affect the amount of rotation. But, it's still a weak wing so he flies with a limp. What I'm trying to say is there might be another problem like an underlying injury and the bird can't deliver full power. In that case, lighter is definitely better (to a point, of course).

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Pidgey, I don't think she is overweight, she is a large pigeon and I think she is supposed to be around 600gr. I have a couple they weigh more than her and can fly and I also have a few fat ones and they can fly if needed.
A couple of years ago I had another PMV bird, he was also unable to fly, I've had him for six months before he passed away and he could never fly even though he was trying very hard.
Lolitas wing span is great and her flap is very strong she just can't take off.
I wonder if it is a neurological thing caused by the PMV, like Treesa mentioned, or a muscular thing. And if there is anything that can be done about it.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti,

Glad to hear that Lolitta is doing so well in your care. I would think that if her flying capabilities are diminished due to central nervous system issues that it may be a toss up as to whether or not she regains use of the wing. 'Course I'm not one of the PMV experts here, just my conjecture. It does seem as though they get some capabilities back again, and perhaps in time, she will as well.
If it's muscular, your doing what would need to happen by virtue of giving her, well, 'flapping' or helicopter time. Ballsy didn't fly for months, and all of a sudden, she decided she wanted to be somewhere in the room near the other pijies and she took a very determined take off and got pretty close to them. I do think the others helped to inspire her. She flies where she chooses now.

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks fp.
She is getting lots of exercise, she flaps constantly when out. She is determined to fly some day again.

Update on Lucky the dove. 
I was waiting for some pics which don't seem to come. She is another one doing great.
She is able to eat and preen and drink, she can fully close her beak on one side and it is only slightly scissored. Aslo she has a little of an overgrowth of her upper beak which doesn't seem to bother her.
The hole where the canker was seems to be smaller. Is it possible the beak can grow back, at least part of it?

I could maybe release her, but I am afraid, what if she doesn't make it. I'd rather find her a good home. She might not be able to pick up seeds from the ground, never saw her do so. She only eats out of a deep dish. She is a very quiet and shy bird too.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Reti, thanks for the update. You have done a wonderful job supporting these birds to fulfill whatever their potential they have. It will be interesting if Lolita is able to progress to flying. I think this forum is an amazing resource for information on PMV treatment and recovery.

Sounds like that little dove has become a great pet. Hope she continues to improve!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well done, Reti! What a wonderful update.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Terri and Terry.

OMG, she just flew of my hands about a couple of feet and landed nicely on the TV. Oh, I am so happy for her and so is she, of course, she is very excited and hyper now.
Now I know she will fly soon.

BTW, I read everything I could find on PMV last night and it seems it is a neurotransmission thing that causes them not to fly.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Reti said:


> .. it seems it is a neurotransmission thing that causes them not to fly.
> Reti


I've read that muscles can find new neural pathways to regain control that had been lost. Seems like she is motivated to fly!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti,

I've read similar information to what TerriB speaks of as well and I do think that this is especially true where there is motivation. If it is an interference of neurotransmitters due to the virus that is without permanent damage, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to get at least some or maybe all of it back. It does seem that they can sometimes have issues after the virus is gone when stressed out. So I'm not sure that she would ever be releasable on that count, but again, not a first hand experienced person on that. 

Beaks do grow, and I've seen them be pretty warped on the sides from canker and return to the normal closure pattern when the canker subsided. I haven't had an outright hole in the beak from it and don't know what to say on that. Is she completely without signs of canker right now?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Reti,
> Is she completely without signs of canker right now?



No signs of canker. Her beak closes almost completely. It is still quite mobile sideways, but nothing like it used to be.

As for Lolita, I don't plan on releasing her, she is a big pij, probably came from a home or loft or something, very tame and human friendly and very happy here.
I am sure she will also flly well some day.

Thank you all.
I had no idea beaks can heal.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

Did you ever try the homeopathic belladonna? This is the one Doreen used on PMV birds. It works on the central nervous system as well as rids the system of poison. It is also used on epilepsy patients.

Perhaps it may help Lolita.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Treesa, I thought about Belladona, but other than her not lfying she has no other symptoms. She is normal healthy pij. I don't know if the Belladona would help her flying abilities. What do you think?
Reti

If her flying problem is caused by neurological scaring, blockage, I would give it a try.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Lolita's Flying Ability.....*

HI RETI, Have you posted a resent pictuer of LOLITA? All I could find was the eary one when she was sick.Is your avatair a more resent photo? It looks like she may be one of the utility breeds,like a KING or CARNEAU these breeds are very poor flyers at best. Much like the chicken.From the avatair and the earlier pictuer I think she could well be a CARNEAU, if this is the case don't worry if she becomes a good flyer. GEORGE SIMON


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi George,
never heard of the Carneau and I was wondering what breed the bird in my avatar is. It is not a King, I have two kings and she looks nothing like them except for the size.
I don't have a recent pic of Lolita but she looks exactly like the one in my avatar. So, I could have two Carneaus? 
Hope I can get a pic of Lolita soon and I will post.
Thanks for the info. Will go and do a search on that breed.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So it could be that Lolita is already flying better than she could before!  Just kidding - hoping for continued improvement for this special bird!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Maybe A Mondaine???????????????????????????*

RETI,Looking through the book"ENCYCLOPEDIA of PIGEON BREEDS" by Wendell M Levi, He owned a big squab farm away back in the 1920 and1930 and the breed he used was the CARNEAU .However I came across the breed called the MONDAINE which is a bit larger than the King or the Carneau.But I still think CARNEAU.I will see if I can come up with a site for these birds.  GEORGE SIMON


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

here is a site :d

http://www.angelfire.com/my/carneau/carneau.html


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

http://www.rkingloft.com/carneau.html

and all white ones are at the bottum


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you so much for the links stash.
I don't think Lolita is a Carneau though, she looks a little different. She also has a red ceres and beak which I didn't notice in the birds in the links.

Reti


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

your very welcome if you ever want me to look sopmething up... i have some free time  and will help out


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

stach_n_flash said:


> your very welcome if you ever want me to look sopmething up... i have some free time  and will help out



Thank you very much.
I will soon try to get a pic of Lolita, maybe we can figure out what kind of breed she is.

Reti


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