# Showmanship Help



## fantailgirl

As some of you probably know (I've mentioned it a few times before), I won Grand Champion Showman with an American Fantail pigeon. This seems to be an extreme accomplishment on my part, though I didn't relize this until recently. I will be going to the Michigan State Fair to compete for state champion, and I could use some helpful tips. I really want to do very well to show this whole state that pigeons exist.


----------



## upcd

*Who are you showing?*

Are you showing the fantails or the other birds you have? You know about how clean they need to be. No dirt or bugs. Lacing the tail if it's fan. Oiling the legs if there are no muffs. Have the birds in thier show cages everyday.


----------



## fantailgirl

I'm using my male fantail, but I'm stuck between a rock and a tight place with him. He's my calmest bird and isn't breeding right now, but... he's molting. BAD. The only other birds that I have fit for showing are my Figuritas, but I'm trying to get them to breed. 

What's lacing the tail?


----------



## PapaPigeon

*LAcing.*

OooH OoooH I'll answer. I just learned this a couple weeks ago, I read it on here and asked my mentor what it was. Lacing the tail is when you go through the tail of a fantail and put one feather forward, one backward and it creates a sort of pattern. It's easier to explain by actually seeing it, I hope that kind of makes sense.  I thought it was usually only done to one type, not both. >>>>>Do you guys always slick their feet if not muffed? I have a show Saturday and I want to kill, should I use like vasoline???

CONGRATS on the win fantail girl!


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Fantail Girl and Matt, 

Fantail Girl, congratulations on your first win in competition, you must be very proud of your male

Hi Matt, you could also use mineral oil to shine up the feet and legs. Not only will it make them look really shiny and red, but it will kill any mites if they are present

**********************************************************

It's really nice to see you guys so supportive of each other and how much you're learning about your hobby, I think it's just wonderful how devoted and interested you both are, way to go!


----------



## re lee

Oil is not a good thing to use. As you have to be careful not to get any on the feathers alcohol Will work great on cleaning the feet. And drys fast. Laceing you go through the tail feathers sorting them out say start on th right side feel the base line of the quill useing the thumb and index finger putting each feather in line. Up to the center. Then do the otherside. Then interlace each feather by over and under. Its best to have someone show you. Now at a fair most often the birds are in a smaller show pen for sometime. So you may have to check to make sure the bird is drinking and eat ok. And relace the tail. smooth any frade feathers. from catching them on the wire. If your bird is moulting other birds will be too.


----------



## fantailgirl

MI State Fair doesn't have pigeon classes, so George only needs to be there for showmanship. I'll work on his tail, and see if I can get the hang of it. I'm learning how to teach myself how to do things on my own, as I'm the only person in my area with anything more than general info stored in my brain.

At fair, one of my kids in the club had a solution that is used on many show birds. I cleaned George's legs with rubbing alcohol, then gently messaged this solution on his legs. It was like oil, but it didn't mess the feathers up. I also rubbed it on his beak and beak cere.

I'm very proud of my Georgie, because he didn't have to just deal with me, the two junior winners had to handle him when we were up for champion. I felt sooooo sorry for them! He kept leaping out of their hands and making a mad dash down th table  (as mad of a dash that he could with his stubby little legs and head way back in the pocket  ), and I kept fretting about him, and answering questions about Silver Seabrites and Old English Game Bantams  . Not an easy thing to do!


----------



## fantailgirl

GOOD LUCK MATT!!!

Kick their butts! Show them that pigeons are the greatest birds EVER!


----------



## upcd

*Pictures*

Can you get pictures of your birds? So we can see how nice they look all decked out. And show us those ribbions too.


----------



## fantailgirl

Ok, my mom and I were going to take a picture of George and Angie (my rabbit), because I won Reserve Grand Champion Rabbit showman too, and we were going to show off all my lovely wins this year. It truely was my year at fair. Be prepared for ALOT of shiny trophies and ribbons  Would you like a list, 'cause it's kinda long...  

BUT, it rained last night and my fantails are in the front of the barn. They're a little wet... The back of their cage was perfectly dry, as that's where their food is, so I don't know why they're wet. Maybe they like cold showers...

I have to give George a bath here soon anyway, I want him to be clean for State Fair.

But, before I do that, I have to go to my college, sign up for financial (sp?) aid, talk to my consouler, sign up for classes, and have a fight with the Fair Office and Greenstone about the Large Animal Fair checks (I show and sell beef steers too, and I need the money I got from them to go school shopping). So it won't be up until laterz. Sorry...


----------



## fantailgirl

Well, here's George, as he was in another thread. Not decked out, but you get the idea.


----------



## birdlover000

I like George's color! Hope you both do great!


----------



## upcd

*great*

pics of your fan. nice colors. Once he is decked out you will do well.


----------



## TerriB

Neat pic with the stream in the background! Good luck at the fair!


----------



## fantailgirl

Thank you  

George is a ham, he loves his picture being taken. I've never really seen very many almonds, other than Angel, one of my hens, so I'm glad to hear that I picked out a good one  His color seems to be coming in a little darker.

His tail is all broken now, and he's missing a few. It sucks when they molt, my birds feathers get brittle and then fall out easy. I'm pulling his tail after fair and watch how it grows out.

When I got George back in April, he had a REALLY bad lice infection, so all of his tail and flight feathers have holes all over them and are barred very bad. I want to see what he looks like when he is molted out and his feathers are all intact.

How old is a young bird? There is a young bird show, but I don't know if my birds are young anymore. They are a 2004 hatch.


----------



## PapaPigeon

*Youngins*

Young birds are birds that are hatched that year, so 2005 birds are young birds right now. 
+++++++++++++++++++
WOW You have alot of animals to care for! LOL. Are you staying close to home for college? I'm going away( I have a year left) I think and I hate thinking about re-locating my pigeons.  I'll live though.
++++++++++++++
So BOTH (I'm only showing 3 birds, lol) my hens decided to lay their eggs yesterday evening, not sit on them because they're done trying to breed but this means they will be ready for the second ones at the show tomorrow morning! I'm reading to slap them silly. Hopefully they'll get em out early and Spring into shape. haha. Ay yi yi.  95 degrees and egg laying birds, it's going to be interesting.


----------



## fantailgirl

I've got alot of animals, after all I do live on a farm  5 cows, 5 calves, 2 steers, 1 bull, 2 mares, 2 geldings, 2 fillies, 1 stallion, many pheasants, too many chickens, way too many rabbits, four peacocks, and not enough pigeons (yet)  

WOOT! I've found another show!

Thanks agian Matt! Yup, I'm stick'en around home for another two years and going to a community college. Then I'm transfering to Lake Superior State University, in Sault Ste. Maire, MI. That's a five hour trip from 'Chartucky', and I'm really gonna miss my birdies and bunnies. Hopefully my mom can take of the pigeons; I know she'll take care of the rabbits just fine, and keep on breeding and showing away, but my birds(including my game chickens), are gonna take a hit. *sigh* My college education is still more important than they are. It's not like I can't sell them and buy more when my four years up north are up.


----------



## birdlover000

ignore post


----------



## birdlover000

You guys are so lucky, you get to show. I don't have the pigeons, yet, to show but I'd love to show pigeons. I'm not sure we have any shows around here which is a shame.  

It does look like you have a lot of animals, what type of pheasent do you have? I love pheasents, Yellow Golden is my favorite. 

Oh, and one last question, what type of pigeons do you have, I know George the Fantail...

David


----------



## fantailgirl

My dad raises Ringneck pheasants to release out here. The wild flock was very over-hunted and is small, so we're boosting their numbers by about 25 per year. My favorite breed is the Lady Amherst. I had them a couple years ago, but a cat somehow got into their pen and murdered them. I wasn't happy, those were my babies!

I currently have American Fantails, Figuritas, and Utility Kings, but I'm always a sucker for beautiful birds.

I also have standard Sumatra chickens and Porcelaine bantams. Again, a sucker for pretty birds, but generally BIG, or game(or both) chickens.


----------



## birdlover000

The Lady Amherst is my second fav. I want a pair so bad. I wish we could do that out here, I think our ring neck pop. is so low, you used to see more pheasants than turkeys, but now it the opposite. 

I am hoping to one day get a fantail pair, they seem to gentle and graceful..

Chickens to, I want chickens, lol, my gramma used to have them, brown egg layers, but they don't now.


----------



## re lee

In most all shows A young bird must have a seamlees band that has that year on it. This would show 05 on the band. Thats the only real way to prove its a youngbird.


----------



## birdlover000

I wnat to raise show birds and show them, it's just that no one around me has birds, or shows them. I'll be going to the fair, to see what I can find out....


----------



## PapaPigeon

**

That's a good place to learn. My budapest tumblers took first and second in class, and my show roller took second or third. I also bought and AMAZING Russian Tumbler, you can see pics in general discussion. I am a sap for pretty birds too! Good Luck in the showing work!


----------



## fantailgirl

ahhh, I wanna Russian Tumbler!! I've been trying to find one for months now!!!

George would have won grand, but he started molting and he was pulling feathers out of his chest. The judges didn't really know how to judge pigeons, and they made a TINY modena grand. That made me sooo mad, that bird was hardly any bigger than my fantail and had a really shallow back. From what I've seen of these birds, they are fairly big, and need to be stout. 

Question: if I pull all of Georges tail out Aug 18, would it be mostly grown back by Sept. 26?


----------



## PapaPigeon

*Yikes.*

That's terrible, Modenas should be monsters. LOL.
++++++++++++++++
The judge should be taking the moulting season into consideration. . .
I'm still learning, but I'd think they should be back, that's a little over a month, there are some tricks too but I don't remember what they are. I'll let a PRO answer.


----------



## fantailgirl

I read on a forum in here somewhere that it takes 45 days for their feathers to completely grow back. The space of what I'm talking about is 39 days, so I'm think'n close enough!

BUT, I like other people's opinions.

I've never gone to an actual pigeon show, and this show is a fair that allows open exibitors, but I really want to show off what I've got! I want to know if he'll be in good shape by then, but forms are due in by Sept 1.


----------



## fantailgirl

*George's pictures!*

He didn't want to cooperate with me, so they aren't the best. I think I kinda laced his tail. I'm thinking you're supposed to position the feathers to look like a spread deck of cards??? One feather overlapping the other???


----------



## re lee

If the weather is right you can figure 6 weeks to moult in a new tail after its pulled. At that time you want to watch the tail And be sure the bird does liitle to no flying. So it wont catch the wing flights in the tail feathers. Also you may have to tape the center if the bird pushes it head thru the center much. If he is pulling some frontel feathers I would dip or dust him for mites or lice. As this may be the reason. for that. As for the other bird getting the win. I would take With a grain of salt. We can not allways win. And condition Has a big part on winning to. Perhaps the birds were close but the other was better conditioed. Anway. just showing lets us learn and try better next time. Join the central fantail club. Go to there site you can also read and learn more on the standard. And you get a quarterly new letter. And member list. Whaere you might find a member close who could offer you some helpful hints.


----------



## fantailgirl

Neeeee... you guys, I'm getting nervous...


----------



## upcd

*Hello*

Fantail girl, Saw you website and it looks neat. He is looking better than the 1st pic. Nice ribbions and awards. Keep up the good work. Re lee has good advice.


----------



## fantailgirl

Thanks. I'm currently fighting a losing battle with my site right now. Usually it's those darned pictures that take so long to make, and I'm a perfectionist when it comes to them (the opening picture is starting to bug me). But now whenever I try to do anyhting with the site, my computers CPU skyrockets beyond what it can take. Stupid hunk a' junk. Ok, I've had my cussing at it. Anyway, once my computer decides that Angelfire isn't going to kill it, it'll be back up to speed.

Wish me luck tomorrow! George had his bath and he's rather upset right now. He isn't looking forward to having his tail pulled out!


----------



## birdlover000

I can't wait to hear the results!


----------



## fantailgirl

I got my butt kicked. They made me "show" a chicken. The judge asked me what diseases a chicken can get, like I really know all them!

I did discover that the state fair has a pigeon department, and it's about new. I got a new fantail baby and a pair of Russian Tumblers! WOOT!

The girl that won was sooo nice, she was a great person! I was happy that she won. There was a girl there that was about 12. I had alot of respect for her.

So, yeah, it was a good trip altogether. Hopefully next year I'll be back with my pigeons against competition there (most of the birds were not all that great...), and my bunnies  I'm under pressure from everybody to win GC rabbits showmanship next year so it can be a 'family reunion'.


----------



## upcd

*Sorry*

About the but kicking. But gald you learned alot and got some fellowship with other animal lovers. It will have the thing happen to me a the Grand National. But I am going for it. It a thrill win or lost. I still get to hang out.


----------



## fantailgirl

Eh, butt-kicked or not, it was a great experience. Besides, it's enough for me to kick all the people at my fair's butt. THOSE are the people that I know, including 'goose boy' and his 'turkey cronies' (my ex, his new girlfriend, and their sidekick)(and we were in the same class!). It was worth it watching them get 9th, 7th, and 6th out of 14, when I got first, 'specially when Derek won 1st last year (neh neh na nay na naaaa!!!). (if you're wondering, that was a HORRIBLE break-up).

I have to post pictures of my new babies up here! I have this AWSOME yellow tumbler. He freaks out every time you walk near him, but he is just great when he calms down.


----------



## re lee

Its fun to win. But remember its more fun to just to be able To have showed. You can go to the central fantail club site. And see pictures of some different colors on the fantails and Perhaps pick up some ideas of your program On raiseing them.


----------



## Birdmom4ever

A young bird is a bird hatched this year, 2005. Anything older than that is considered an old bird. 

Congratulations on your success!! George is gorgeous. We also have American fantails and took a few to the show last year but they didn't do well. I gather it's difficult to raise good ones. I think I'll concentrate on my rollers, my first love.


----------



## PapaPigeon

*haha*

Aaahhh, revenge on the ex, I like how you have like a poultry club. LOL. I realized my yellow russian tumbler is a 2005 so I can show her at LOUISVILLE!!! LOL, her muffs are getting bigger and bigger.


----------



## upcd

*Greetings*

Birdmom, Do you show or fly your rollers? Fantail girl, what is going on with your birds?


----------



## Birdmom4ever

No, I don't fly them anymore. We did the first couple years we raised them, but there are too many hawks around here. Now I concentrate on raising good quality birds with pretty patterns and colors. We have some beautiful baldheads, lace patterns, etc. I'm looking forward to showing them this year. Last year was our first show. We didn't win big, but one of my hens got first in her class, another second (of the rollers).


----------



## upcd

*Great!*

It always feels good to win. Who do you think will good to show this year? I mght show white and a kite saddle. In Indain Fantails.


----------



## Birdmom4ever

I have some really beautiful young rollers: a silver check, two very nice baldheads in a silver lace pattern and more. I also have two young American fantails, but I'm not sure they are show quality. It's fun to try, though.


----------



## Doves1111

This Fall is going to be my first time showing...I will be showing a few of my Fantails, a few of my Pheasant Pigeons, and several of my Ringneck Doves...I'm not sure if they are show quality either. Even if my birds aren't show quality, and they don't place, this will be a learning experience for me and a chance to be with my pigeon and dove friends. The show isn't until the end of November, but it's on my mind constantly. I'm already nervous!!!  

Dawn


----------



## PapaPigeon

*NeAT-O*

Congrats and Good Luck to all of you guys who are going to be competing. More than showing, Shows are GREAT place to network and meet fellow fanciers, it's not that easy to find them in the first place, LOL.


----------



## Birdmom4ever

That was one of the things I enjoyed most about the show--meeting other pigeon people. I was disappointed there weren't more women who are into pigeons, but there were a few. The other fun thing was seeing so many breeds that I'd previously seen only in photos. It was pigeon heaven!  The hard part was trying not to let all those rough, tough pigeon guys who've raised pigeons for 20 years and more see me talking to my "babies" by name.  That and having to leave my spoiled darlings in little cages in a strange place for the whole weekend. 

But it was fun and I'm looking forward to it this year. I was really nervous last year, too, but I hope I'll be a little calmer this year.


----------



## upcd

*Fairs*

Tend to be a little easier to place in, because less pigeon people show at them. It is harder to place at all pigeons shows, there is more competetion. A fair is a good place to learn with your birds and gain experince. A pigeon show is a more exstensive and sometimes individual training session. What do you think?


----------



## Doves1111

I think I need and can use the help from wherever or whatever direction I can get it in...

Dawn


----------



## TerriB

Birdmom4ever said:


> ...having to leave my spoiled darlings in little cages in a strange place for the whole weekend...


Yeah, that would stress me! When we go to the fair, I'm always reminding people to NOT BUG THE BIRDS!!!  I really enjoy looking at all the beautifully presented pigeons. It's neat how many of them will relax when you stoop down and talk to them. There must be more "pets" out there than folks admit to!


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Birdmom4ever said:


> That was one of the things I enjoyed most about the show--meeting other pigeon people. I was disappointed there weren't more women who are into pigeons, but there were a few.


Hi Cathy, 

LOL @ your comments Yes, it does seem that the pigeon community is mostly dominated by men. However, our own forum here seems to say otherwise and we have many women fanciers and lovers of pigeons here

I think it's just great that more women and younger people are becoming interested in pigeons and showing us all that it's not just a "man's" sport or hobby


----------



## Birdmom4ever

Yes, we certainly have lots of female pigeon lovers on this forum. Obviously many women love pigeons and rescue them and/or keep them as pets. I think the obstacle for many women in terms of showing is what you have to do to be competitive. In order to raise top quality show birds you have to be willing to cull, and even if that means non-lethal selling or giving away of "substandard" pigeons, it's difficult for us nurturing types for whom each bird is an individual with a name and personality. I'm not criticizing people who raise birds to show; I'm just saying I think it goes against the grain for many of us. 

I stopped by our county fair this summer and was disappointed to find that no one had entered any pigeons. I'd be happy to enter some of mine yext year, but as nearly as I can tell you can only enter if you're a young person involved in 4-H or the FFA. They had poultry this year but no pigeons.


----------



## pigeonmama

Birdmom,
I started showing last year, and enjoyed it so much. It's fun, it's exciting, it's a chance to learn so much. Now, I don't cull my birds, other than by not letting my non-show quality birds reproduce, or breed with my show birds. If I get eggs from non-show quality, I replace them with fakes. Also, I only show at one or two day long shows, due to stress on my birds (and me). I also patrol rows of cages. Drives me crazy to see people tease/torment caged birds, and I'm not shy about telling people to leave the birds alone.
Now, my son raises chickens and a few turkeys. We do not eat these eggs. I can't imagine eating a fertile egg. I hard boil them and feed them back to the birds. We also don't eat our chickens. How the heck do you eat someone who has a name and comes running when called.
Daryl


----------



## upcd

*Entry*

Don't be afraid to enter your birds at the fair. Just call the fair grounds and ask them to mail you the entry forms. Fill it out and mail it back and get our birds ready to go. I entered as an adult at the fairs here in So. Cal. If you have the time you can do a circiut or a whole lot of county fairs. It is good training. I don't like to cull birds. I get to personal. Selling or giving away makes me feel better. I also use Vet. assisted injections for fatility injuried or diseased birds. The Humane Soceity offers free E & D for sick or injuried pets.


----------



## re lee

When you enter the point Of breeding raiseing showing and flying pigeons. YOU will come to the point of having to let go of some birds. To stay competive. There is most often someone that will be glad to get them. A person that raises and particapates in flying or showing. Will perhaps raise thousands of pigeons over the years . That number alone says. We have to manage a loft keeping the numbers down And to go forward. Birds have to be gone through. Keeping the best for a sound program. And even the best today will have to go some day. Because you then have better. A small number of birds as pets. Yes a person keeps them. But they are pets. Raiseing pigeons for show or to fly becomes a art. And a very enjoyable hobby. But a pet bird means perhaps even more then a show champion. So both aspects as pets or as progressive bred birds. Having them means the same.


----------



## Birdmom4ever

I'm afraid I'm too sentimental to ever be really good at raising show pigeons.  But I admire those who are good at it.


----------



## re lee

As you raise and breed the birds. You will notice your goal. And its fun to put the minds eye to work trying to come up with that show type bird. Trying for that mating that clicks and you see the end results as the birds grow. Each year has a challenge. But its a person thing. What you want to do with the birds. Never being able to reach that perfect 100 point bird. And I doupt we will ever see one. But the birds that come close even a 60 point bird looks great. So show birds will allways be a personal challenge. And a hobby that never dies


----------



## fantailgirl

Woot, back! I've had one heck of a time getting situated with college!
My birds all look like crap now, and my only pair of birds that don't have feathers falling out have an egg (I'm so happy YEA!!!)
So I'm going to start showing next year!
My fantails' tails are starting to grow back out again and looking nice. I'm oving them into a larger breeding pen in a few weeks, so I can let them have some late hatches if they want to.
The runts and swifts are bulking up and they're new feathers coming in look great.
I'll bring them to a boil next year, and we'll see what they heat up!

To Pigeonmama:
It's harder for some people than others. I now don't have feelings for our beef steers when they are shipped in, I've been run over enough times. But when it comes to the rabbits, I can't stand being there or looking at them when they are put down, and I feel like crying when I sell them.


----------



## re lee

It gets mixed up when a person has several things going at once. Just yesterday. A person that had start raiseing fantails at the end of last year. With college and now work She has to little time to work with the fantails. So needed to give them up. They had 17 birds. I picked them up yesterday evening. I kept 4 And found homes for the other 13. With 2 different people. Birds now will start looking rough. as more of the moult kicks in. Then befor long the new feathers the birds look great agin. Show season is still a few months away. So birds still have time to clean up. And be showed. If a person wants to show. And has the time to do it.


----------

