# Houbens



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Does anyone here fly the David Clausing Houbens? If so, how do they do for you?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I've just started collecting them wont know till young bird season.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Are you planning to family breed them or cross them out?


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I also just started getting them. The ones I got are young but plan to get some young birds later in the year off them. I will probably cross some and bred some straight. I got 4 of them and really like 2 of them (nestmates) they are Ziko granchidren (linebred). Great looking, handling birds, but who knows until they fly?


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

I currently am breeding from 2 sons and 2 daughters of Ziko and multiple grandchildren of Ziko. They are hands down the best breeding birds I own. They cross into my Janssen, Van Loon, and Meulemans real well. We had 2 different races this year where we had the only day birds or the only birds to return from the race (in the clock). We have sent birds to other flyers to fly and they have done very well with those in their areas also.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> Does anyone here fly the David Clausing Houbens? If so, how do they do for you?


 I am familiar with the Houben name brand, but not with David Clausing's particular line. I do know he sort of got spanked in this year's Winner's Cup and in some other One Loft Events this year, don't know what "brand" he may have sent, but whatever it may have been, did not seem to produce the results you would expect from one of the "Big Names".

Based on a big 2008 auction race in Chicago Land, if I was to buy some "Houbens", I would want "K&D Houbens", I would check out Ken's site at http://kanddlofts.com/index.html , he also happens to be a contributor on these threads from time to time. Not a "Big Name", but if he ever finds this thread and shares what he did in that particular race, it's apparent to me at least, that he produces the results.

That's the problem with attempting to buy good birds from a particular family line. The pigeon merchants buy some of the big winners, and then mass produce them, much like a puppy mill, complete with slick ads and fancy prices. I don't care what the "name" is or the "brand", there just are not that many good pigeons produced. After so many hands, and so many generations, what you end up with, is something the orginal breeder most likely would not have recognized as one of his family strain. 

Maybe you are luckey, and did acquire some good pigeons, in which case you will soon find out in the races. 

Good Luck !!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

whitesnmore said:


> I currently am breeding from 2 sons and 2 daughters of Ziko and multiple grandchildren of Ziko. They are hands down the best breeding birds I own. They cross into my Janssen, Van Loon, and Meulemans real well. We had 2 different races this year where we had the only day birds or the only birds to return from the race (in the clock). We have sent birds to other flyers to fly and they have done very well with those in their areas also.



I must have been writing my piece at the same time you were writing. Now, come on Ken, quit being so modest, and tell us what you did with your particular "brand" in that Auction Race....heck, we heard about that way over here in the East in the UPC !! You are too modest, the readers may not be aware that when you post, you do have some major accomplishments to back it up !!


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong but Ziko was one of Clausing foundation birds?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but Ziko was one of Clausing foundation birds?


Yep.

http://www.racingpigeondigest.com/archives/featured_articles/84


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ohiogsp said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but Ziko was one of Clausing foundation birds?


 Apparently so....but keep in mind, that even some very famous World Class stud cocks, will produce Supers and duds....but the majority are often very typical. That has been my personal experience any way. My objection has always been that the offspring are almost always priced as Supers, when the odds are, 90% or more, will be fairly typical. Of course, one person's cull, is another's foundation breeder. The other dichotomy, is that there is ample evidence, that the real Supers are produced in the early years of a pigeon's life. Often when the breeder's value is still somewhat unrecognized. Once the famous racer and/or breeder reaches his/her older years, his/her offspring is sold based on the impact of the bird's offspring from the younger years. 

Keep in mind, if a commercial breeder owns a great racer and can sell all the offspring for big bucks, then they will be turned out for 12 months out of the year, with numerous hen's. Only their CPA knows for sure how many dozens are produced and sold each year, and how many are sold over the years. My guess, is that the percentage of Supers produced from the famous Racer, has not changed since the orginal owner, who moved on to even more promising breeding candidates. It may be just like buying a lottery ticket. However, the odds are a bit rigged, because the merchant is smart enough not to sell one of the 5% or so, if he really thinks it's another Super.

When you end up with a pigeon with a famous racer, or two or three or four as one of the grandparents, it may not mean very much at all. The quality of the bird in your hand, and how you pair that pigeon, and what it produces, is what really matters. If all we needed to do, was to acquire some birds with some famous racers in the back ground, well then, this sport would be very simple to win at. That's the only point I have been trying to make in all of these various posts that I have made. The names, brands, or pedigree's, all is very interesting, and makes us feel good, but at the end of the race season, may end up meaning very little.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

I was given some houbens to breed for 2004 season and our first race we got 2nd through 10th. I was so cocky after that but never duplicated the results lol.... But as far as houbens they were good birds a little on the dark side though I don't like black birds just a preference thing


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I purchased one from David Clausing himself, and I'm thinking about picking up another one to pair it up and line breed from there.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

For those who want more information about David and his birds, here is a link for you to find information. 
http://clausingdavid.com/

One race does not success make or break. 300 birds were spanked in the Winners Cup among other races. There is only one winner. I would be hard pressed to criticize the winner of the Million Dollar Race. I do see Warren's point on where the line of birds is going. Unless you get birds directly from the pairs that are breeding winners, you may be getting down the line birds that have not been tested. Many purchase birds with names, ie. Sure Bet Birds. Third generation are getting thousands of dollars. I do think David has a proven record and could stand it up to anyone in this post as far as money won or big races won. If you can judge a mans birds by whether any of his birds have been stolen, David is in this club. Keep in mind the true test of the birds is how they do in the races and not the auctions. 

If you can pick the birds up for a reasonable price, do so and then test them in the races. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

A follow up not. Ken does have a good family of birds. For many of the newbees in here, Ken would be a good place to look for foundation birds. 

Randy


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now, come on Ken, quit being so modest, and tell us what you did with your particular "brand" in that Auction Race.... the readers may not be aware that when you post, you do have some major accomplishments to back it up !!


Warren, As much as I would like to take the credit I have to pass it along to the great pigeon guys that took the time to "teach me a thing or two" (so much for not being educate-able). Alot of people dont know that it was guys like you, Steve Mistler, and a great flyer out of Texas by the name of Bruce Hammond who took in a newbie and taught them that health, training, and motivation are the keys to winning. Now it dont hurt to have really good bloodlines too. But when you have "SMASH" races such as the one you flew and won back in 05 (remember the pretty little silver splash? still breeding from her and she is my best hen) and your birds are the only ones on the day you have to look at the breeding and ask why did that bird have the desire to get home on a 20 mile an hour headwind with driving rain and lightning (from 300 miles) when all the others went down. First you look at her parents, Her mother just happened to win for a guy with the SFLUSA loft. Her mother also won the smash in 05 for that same guy. Now the father is out of Ziko and is hands down the foundation cock here at our loft. He has sired no less than 20 first place winners in 3 seasons of breeding and has done this with at least 4 different hens!!! He is down from David Clausing stock by way of Steve Mistler out of New York. So aside from the bloodlines the mentor you have in your pocket is the most important thing you can do. Too many newbies want to talk and not listen. I am glad I didnt take that approach as we are 2800.00 richer this year cause I knew how to keep my mouth shut and ears open.
ps. The combine auction was only one of the 3 money races we entered this year. We took 2nd in another money race (only 5 day birds and lost by 4 minutes) and took 1st and 2nd in the 3rd race (only 2 total day birds this race) . Also, Ace in the Hole has been breeding from 801 which is a son of our foundation Houben and this bird produced very good flyers for him. I believe he also crossed with your blood to produce those YB's.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Ken you are from Chicago huh? Do you know Bogdan Chlebeck?


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Yes, I have heard of him he flys the Chicago Combine and I fly the Fox Valley Combine. He is next to the lake as we are more "inland". Bogdan is a good flyer and I know people with his bloodlines. Chicago combine guys and gals are primarily right in the city or very close to the city. Our combine members are no closer than 30 minutes west, north, or south of the city. WE have 115 lofts competing and Chicago probably has 130. How do you know Bogdan?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Last yr I bought some Janssens and Meulemans and did better, befor that all I had was sion crosses. I'm 18 miles on the short end of our club. The Houbens I have are from David jr. and from a sister to Dana, I don't think I've got a super I just hope they are faster than my Sions


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

whitesnmore said:


> Yes, I have heard of him he flys the Chicago Combine and I fly the Fox Valley Combine. He is next to the lake as we are more "inland". Bogdan is a good flyer and I know people with his bloodlines. Chicago combine guys and gals are primarily right in the city or very close to the city. Our combine members are no closer than 30 minutes west, north, or south of the city. WE have 115 lofts competing and Chicago probably has 130. How do you know Bogdan?


A guy that helped me get started in my club is friends with him. I will get to meet him next year cause we take a annual trip to Illinios to visit lofts and hang out with the guys from World of Wings and that club. They always stop at his loft and visit with him. I have some of his birds I am going to try this year.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Let me know when you come in and we'll try to meet. Any idea of his bloodlines? Does he fly Janssen primarily? I didnt know WOW came into the chicagoland area. We should get a visit from them as well buy 75 bands from them annually.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

I got 2 direct sons of 410 and a double grand daughter of 410 from clausing and they have yet to prove themselves. I've had them for 2 years and they do come home just like my other birds and sometimes they come before my stuff and sometimes don't. so its just a hit or miss when you buy birds. How much did you buy yours for. I paid quite a bit of money and am reconsidering on lettign them go


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Warpaint
Try single tossing your birds, some are slower than the others. Split them into 2 teams, some times the slow birds will slow down the speed birds. Try it made a difference with mine, make sure you time them.


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## shay_v (Jan 16, 2006)

Ive got some of david clausing houbens myself.........been having them now for sometime.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

whitesnmore said:


> Let me know when you come in and we'll try to meet. Any idea of his bloodlines? Does he fly Janssen primarily? I didnt know WOW came into the chicagoland area. We should get a visit from them as well buy 75 bands from them annually.



I don't know what strain they are. I will ask my friend. The WOW guys don't come to chicago we go there (we stop at different lofts on the way). My buddy is friends with Jim Gabler, Don Kelsey, and a bunch of guys out there. So, we make a trip out there and visit lofts and hang out for a weekend. I will go next year in the fall. I will talk to ya when the time comes maybe we could stop.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> Warpaint
> Try single tossing your birds, some are slower than the others. Split them into 2 teams, some times the slow birds will slow down the speed birds. Try it made a difference with mine, make sure you time them.


I tried many things. single tosses as well. They do about the same but I keep getting same results. My vanloons are faster would would make it home first majority of the time. I do notice that houbens are good for the tough long races, I think they're more of an endurance bird. When crossed on my vanloons they did great and even the crosses were able to out perform the straight houbens.


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## white flight (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi there!

What a family of pigeons Jeff, Luc and Nadia Houben (from Belguim) created.

Recently, a SA fancier had his dispersal sale. His stock loft consisted mainly of Houbens - it was a SA record sale as he netted approximately 13m USD from his sale. 14 were direct imports from the Houbens. 

These Houbens were crossed with Oscar de Vriendts and Rijckaerts which made him 3 x Fed Champion and 3 x National Show Champion. He was club champion for a record ten years in a row! 

A Houben pigeon "Parma" bred from Zoon "Pinocchio x Luana" - sold for a record price of 650 000USD!!

They are true champion pigeons and you cannot go wrong!

Regards!

white flight ZA


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## fishcharmer (Nov 15, 2008)

Hi all,

I think warpaint is on track when he talks about clausings being a longer distance tough race bird. I think now more than ever David C. concentrates his breeding for the African race and yet i know his family of birds can win at all distances. I think his winning record speaks for itself. The folks that criticize David for selling birds in his price range i think, would do the same if they could. I own directs and in directs but only clausing blood runs through my loft.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

yes its true on the birds being tougher and more on endurance. As for when racing in Africa, with the heat and stress they will encounter it takes a bird that can endure it all and still make it home. As for winning in the states, most houbens are crossed so that they can perform in particualr races. Like I mention above, when bred to my vanloons they excelled very well. When crossed with the meluemans, they were able to do the job on the 300 miles and below races. But you would have to find the right birds and the best birds to get the maximum results.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

warpaint said:


> How much did you buy yours for. I paid quite a bit of money and am reconsidering on lettign them go



Got mine for free from my mentor.  His foundation pair are off Ziko, plus he has birds off Dana and off some of Dave's one loft winners. I am assuming these birds are pretty pricy huh?


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

warpaint said:


> yes its true on the birds being tougher and more on endurance. As for when racing in Africa, with the heat and stress they will encounter it takes a bird that can endure it all and still make it home. As for winning in the states, most houbens are crossed so that they can perform in particualr races. Like I mention above, when bred to my vanloons they excelled very well. When crossed with the meluemans, they were able to do the job on the 300 miles and below races. But you would have to find the right birds and the best birds to get the maximum results.


Then perhaps crossing a Houben with a proven long distance family will work for old birds in a few years.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

We are crossing ours with Vissers and Vandabeeles this year for the first time to attempt to have tough, long-distance birds ready for the 500's in OB season of 2010. We'll see if that works or not.
Ken


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

fishcharmer said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I think warpaint is on track when he talks about clausings being a longer distance tough race bird. I think now more than ever David C. concentrates his breeding for the African race and yet i know his family of birds can win at all distances. I think his winning record speaks for itself. The folks that criticize David for selling birds in his price range i think, would do the same if they could. I own directs and in directs but only clausing blood runs through my loft.


That's very true. People who often criticize others for doing exactly what they would do themselves are no good. I've spoken to David many times, and he's a very genuine person. When you read about his first seven years or so, he struggled and didn't win much. And now he's done very well for himself. That shows that perserverance does indeed pay off.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Just a side note. I was studying the results for the Winners Cup races in 2007.
http://www.winnerscupusa.com/

The top winners last year were Noel Certain and Nick Kowalchuck. Noel Races a nice family of Houbens down from direct Clausing birds. Noel also does quite well with his birds in other races. There was an article in RPD some time back about Noel. As for Nick he did pretty good this year. He has amoung other things a family of Bob Kinney birds that I have great luck with. Both these families are good in tough races. Noel might be a good sourse for some Houbens. 

As for David he was on the drop in the 200. Cary Tilson this years winner has shown the last two years. 

Also congrats to Warren who did respectable this year also. 

These guys seem to do well every year and don't even have to buy the race. 

Randy


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks Randy. I will check out the link.


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## 000gil (Apr 21, 2011)

Looking for some Oscar De Vriendts racing pigeons you can e-mail at [email protected]


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am familiar with the Houben name brand, but not with David Clausing's particular line. I do know he sort of got spanked in this year's Winner's Cup and in some other One Loft Events this year, don't know what "brand" he may have sent, but whatever it may have been, did not seem to produce the results you would expect from one of the "Big Names".
> 
> Based on a big 2008 auction race in Chicago Land, if I was to buy some "Houbens", I would want "K&D Houbens", I would check out Ken's site at http://kanddlofts.com/index.html , he also happens to be a contributor on these threads from time to time. Not a "Big Name", but if he ever finds this thread and shares what he did in that particular race, it's apparent to me at least, that he produces the results.
> 
> ...


Mark Ace In The Hole and I are working a Houben x Smith Family line based on one pair of birds that have been successful. The Houben's are out of K&D lofts Houbens down from Clausings. They are strong birds. We call it our 801 line.


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