# Sudden loss of appetite and runny droppings



## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Hey Folks, my king pigeon, SB, started acting off yesterday evening. Went to offer raw peanuts (favorite treat) and she kind of pecked at them but didn't eat them. Then today I took over afternoon nest duties and she flew up to a shelf and slept, where normally she walks around my room or the hallway. Later again rejected peanuts. I have 3 hens and all of them get watery poops when they are ovulating, then after the second egg it always clears right up. Even so, these watery poops seemed off. The urates look white but the clear part is yellowish.

They don't get direct sun but I have drops for the water but the dosage seems high.

Another thing that happens is she makes weak gestures made towards preening, but no actual preening. And now it's the same with the seed, gestures towards it but doesn't even make contact. The second egg arrived at 7:00pm, so that's done. But if SB doesn't start eating in the morning I'll try forcing peas (or should do that tonight?). What number of peas would you recommend for a 700g pigeon? Seems alert, even chased off one of the hens at one point, but when she stops or is on the nest she sits and fluffs up more than usual. Clearly does not feel well.

The nest box is on an upper shelf so I brought a heater in and will keep my normally cool room warm overnight.

One thing- I have a ton of plants in the house, and SB and one of the trouble makers will tear off the paper towels to get to the soil underneath. I found one plant yesterday that they got into has those tiny round fertilizer pellets. Ugh. That won't happen again. (though the other birds are fine)

Attached are two poop pics taken about 3 hours apart.

thanks, ugh, super worried

-Rudy


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Bubbles suggest an intestinal infection, such as clostridia. there is the best avian vet ctr in the world in Oakley...Medical Center for Birds. Drs Speer and Olsem are the greatest. We drive four hours to see them. Or you might ask Palomacy for help, although i know they take their pigeons to Medical Center for Birds, too. Please keep your bird warm and see if you can get her in to see Dr Speer ir Dr Olsen.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Thanks. I've heard of them. Asking around fir vets in SF or the immediate area. That would be a long ride for her on public transportation. Doable, though. Cheers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She isn't eating, the droppings indicate that. You need to get food into her now. Start with 30 or so peas, then go to about 50 or so. She can be fed about 3 times a day, but make sure the crop is empty before feeding again. What meds do you have?

If you have a heating pad, you can put it under her nest and set on LOW.

What are you giving for calcium/D3? You said drops in the water?


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Meds: only two. One for parasites .3% ivermectin, and 100mg metro. The vitamin drops have D3 but now I'm seeing it's low in calcium, but there is alway a dish of oyster shell out. I'll need to change those. 
Cooing from the nest box is morning but no interest in food or water. And after all night on the nest didn't poop. 
Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You need to get food into her while you figure this out, or get her to the vet. The frozen, defrosted peas would be good for now.
You don't really have any antibiotics.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

I can overnight some if I get the order in in the next two hours. Broad spectrum recommendations? ... And I've been meaning to ask (it's been a year and I am still figuring things out)- is there something I should always have on hand? Thanks!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, should always have a good wormer, like Moxidectin or Moxidectin Plus,or Avio Ekto/Endo, or Mediworm by Medpet, which also covers tapeworm,A good broad spectrum antibiotic, Baytril and Amoxycyllin are good to have. Corrid for Cocci,


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you are going to the vet, of course that would be better as they can tell you what you are dealing with. The medical center cwebster mentioned is very good.
If no vet and wanted to cover most bases, I would treat with Metro for canker and a good broad spectrum antibiotic. I like Baytril (Enrofloxacyn), but Amoxy is good too. Also, if worms are suspected then would de-worm.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Thanks Jay3. The ivermectin is avio/endo. I'll order the other items today. Finally made a bowl movement and it was all green diarrhea. I was hoping to catch it in a jar but it was so liquid it over shot and I only caught part of it Then she made two small not quite dime sized white poops. I have a very strong feeling she got into something she wasn't supposed to. Pics later


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

PRO TIP- when force feeding pigeons, tuck the string of your hoodie inside. Trust me on this! -R


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The Avio Ekto/Endo contains Ivermectin and Praziquantel. It covers tapeworm also. Ivermectin doesn't.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh weird, it only mentions, contains:0.3% Ivermectin but it is a tiny bottle. Def AVIOEKTO/ENDO from Avio med


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Seems a vet won't happen until tomorrow. At noon there was a stool coming and I went to catch it in a jar and as it was mostly liquid and explosive it overshot the jar. Then a minute later there were two small white ones. The yellow worries me but it could be the green mixed in. I'm now thinking he got into something and I'll have to re-pigeon proof the house.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay, after researching further, the drops are just Ivermectin. The tablets are different.
Just plain Ivermectin is not always as good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The green is from not eating. You need to get food into her.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh I did, this was just before feeding about 4 hours ago. In 15 minutes I'm going to TRY to check the crop (am am really terrible at this, can only ever find the process off the sternum) and see if another feeding is in order.

thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What did you feed and how much?


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Thawed frozen green peas, warmed up a bit. 40, as since it's a king. -R


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Has she not had any droppings since? Wait till it starts to go through. If she doesn't go, then could be a blockage.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

I'll pull her off the nest and see if she goes.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

nope just liquid with urates


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yeast or canker can cause a blockage. Wait and see if the food goes through. Giving her warmed baby applesauce mixed with a bit of warm water often helps get things moving through. Baby applesauce is better as it doesn't have all the sugar that regular applesauce has. Might be good to see the vet. If you establish a good relationship with a vet, they will often test droppings for you without having to bring the bird in. Handy to have a reliable vet.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Well just pooped, does this look legit or is this just the body eating itself? (sorry, caught me off-guard, landed on, well, a stool!)

After, took 3 gulps of water, the first in 36 hours!

-R


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good, you can feed her 30 to 40 more peas. Warm but not hot. I would treat for canker and give Baytril for 10 days, and go from there.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Awesome. Should I also try with applesauce? I'll start the canker tonight. Tomorrow I'll either order the baytril overnight or borrow some from -somebody- and order the baytril regular post.
(turns out I also have Respire from when I first got had to treat for respiratory. From what I gather it's a mild and specific antibiotic)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Medistatin would be a good thing to have as well. Antibiotics can cause a yeast infection, which can cause a blockage. I would rather get Nystatin, but harder to get without a vet. So Medistatin works on yeast also.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

So Baytril (Enrofloxacyn), Amoxy, or Medistatin? Or two of these things. I'll call the order in and pray they have it all in stock. (btw- the water had ACV and pigeon probiotics in it, for what it's worth)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. The Baytril and the Medistatin.
You can get Medistatin in these places.

http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/AB10232.html
http://www.jedds.com/shop/medistatin/
https://www.bestvetcare.com/medistatin/bird-racing-pigeons-treatment-263.aspx
https://www.budgetpetcare.com/medistatin/bird-racing-pigeons-treatment-361.aspx

Baytril for the antibiotic, and Medistatin in case the antibiotic causes yeast.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

I have the metro 100 on hand now (which you advised me to give pieces of in the past) so how should I proceed?

thanks!

R


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Also, from Jedds: "Pigeons – Mix 5g (1 heaped measure included) with 1kg of grain for 5-7 days. Grain to be mixed with Plume Plus to allow Medistatin to adhere to the grain."

Do you use plumes plus or something else to make it stick?

R

EDIT: GOT IT! another site said use light oil


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Jedds has Enrofloxacin in stock, do you use the liquid or powder?

http://www.jedds.com/shop/misc/

R


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

This seems like good news, a single dropping at 9:45pm but (and I started the Metro)...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would continue with the peas and Metro.
I would however send for the Baytril and Cocci med.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Things were slow yesterday, but this morning the first poop after a night on the nest was a definite improvement. And midday SB actually started =preening= during a 90 minute break from the eggs. 

Yesterday we did get some bill damage, even though I was cautious to grab the lower mandible somehow I caught the edge of the bill. A bit of blood, probably felt like getting a fingernail lifted, it fell off today when SB felt fiesty enough to bite me. 

Coming along but slowly


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Poor thing. Keep feeding her, but be careful of the beak.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Thanks All, I'm mostly careful of the beak when there's an attempt to preen my eyelashes. So far it's only happened twice 

R


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Continuing to get better. Still no interest in grain or water (plenty in peanuts aka pigeon crack) but soon I hope. This is from first thing off the nest.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

When we force feed our pigeons food or meds, we try to gently open their beaks by sliding a fingernail to the side if the beak then slide the mouth open. This is with the bird wrapped in a towel.


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## rudyard (Aug 9, 2016)

Well it seems things are back to normal. I now have all 3 birds on Metro just in case. I need to return and get the correct antibiotics. Thanks for all the help and support.

To wrap, I was riding my bike in the park last year and came across what was obviously a young king pigeon. "Okay, I can feed this guy until I find a new home" So Snowberry got stuffed in my hoodie for the ride home...

-Rudyard


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rudyard said:


> I have the metro 100 on hand now (which you advised me to give pieces of in the past) so how should I proceed?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> R


The dose for Metro for an adult pigeon is 50 mg once daily, for 10 days. But feed first, as it can cause them to vomit on an empty crop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rudyard said:


> Jedds has Enrofloxacin in stock, do you use the liquid or powder?
> 
> http://www.jedds.com/shop/misc/
> 
> R


I prefer tablets, but use those or liquid. Powder is only good for mixing in the drinking water, which you don't want for treating a single bird, or even a couple of birds. That's good for when you need to treat a flock.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Snowberry is very pretty.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree, Snowberry is a very pretty bird!


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