# forked wings/cant fly



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I am new to this site, however, I am really excited because I feel I will get the information I need. I have a pigeon (feral) that has "forked " wings,,just cartilage, no feathers and she cant get over 4' in the air. Is there a certain kind of food I can feed her that will have the vitamins she needs to heal?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Post a picture of the bird so that we get a better idea of what you are describing?


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I don't know how to post a picture on here,,i am so sorry but I will work on that. what I mean by "forked" is that her wings only have the cartilage and no feathers,,but just on the ends of the wings about1"to11/2".


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does she walk okay?


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

So are you saying her back is bald and she has only skin showing or it is a baby in pins, send me pics at [email protected] thanks.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are saying that the wing tips don't have feathers. That's why I asked if the bird could walk. Could be using wings.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

Is there any way I can call someone? I am not explaining her situation very good. Never have been real good with that. she walks and runs just fine. she is not bald but the ends of her wings are just cartilage, her tail feathers and her health are fine, she is feisty! I don't know how to send a picture. imagine if you hold out a wing and it is feathered all but the ends about an inch or so.I just don't want to do more harm than good.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I tried to send a picture to your gmail acct.,,however I don't know if it worked or not. I will get a better pic tonight and send also.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Yes I got the pic thanks, I emailed you back. Jay the bird looks to be in perfect feather but for the primaries being completely stripped, only white pins for about 3 inches or the length of the visual primaries very odd looking. So I have never come across that unless a breeder did it on purpose to keep the birds in yard and not fly away. Or disease. I mean stripped to the bone like a white bone lol. I asked for futher pics of both sides and a short video to see whats what and then I can further advise for either plucking the flights to regrow or closer look for some type of parasite or illness.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> Is there any way I can call someone? I am not explaining her situation very good. Never have been real good with that. she walks and runs just fine. she is not bald but the ends of her wings are just cartilage, her tail feathers and her health are fine, she is feisty! I don't know how to send a picture. imagine if you hold out a wing and it is feathered all but the ends about an inch or so.I just don't want to do more harm than good.


It is not cartilage, it is primary wing feather center shaft, like a person keratin finger nail, the feather material is just gone. So not sure if it was a birth defect or a medication reaction or parasite or predator or what? Need more info.

Just looks like white pins with zero feather material.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Can anyone post the pic here pls?
CBL if you send me the pic, I will post it here for better explanation.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf, if its just damage to the end of the feathers, again I can send u a video on how to pluck the feathers one at a time. Easily done or you can go to any vet or pigeon breeder and they can do it for you. If u want videos, email me back at the same gmail acct and we will start the process. I like to pluck only about half on each side two weeks apart. A plucked feather regrows within a few weeks, a moulted feather takes up to a year depending on when the bird starts the molt. I just did this with Krzys bird Pepper. Her feathers were is such bad shape, old and brittle and breaking at the point where they enter the skin that I had to lay bird in my lap and use eyebrow treezers and pluck all the broken bits one at a time, it was pain staking but well worth it. Also plucked the tiny broken bits from her bald shoulders and she has not growth all those areas back in within weeks and looks like a totally different bird. We are hoping with all the food and minerals now that she has all the building blocks to go thru a reg moult this fall, if not, I will systematically pluck the old ratty feathers off her body until she is relatively new looking lol. Krzys should post a pic.....


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

kiddy said:


> Can anyone post the pic here pls?
> CBL if you send me the pic, I will post it here for better explanation.


Sent, check your inbox. It should read, BALD primary FLIGHTS not forked wings.
 Either way I would if my bird, spray for lice and mites, and pluck the flights in stages and allow new ones to grow in. Also give minerals and vits supplements to help with regrowth.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Seems quite abnormal. Yes you are right. Plucking should help the bird to initiate growth of new wings. 
Uploading the pic here.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How long have you had this bird? And where do you keep him?


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

thanks to all of you for your responses and for posting her picture. I was informed of Wheat Germ Oil by a neighbor of my mother who has a flock of pigeons and i have just started yesterday giving it to her. she is a wild/feral bird and plucking would be very difficult. you see. I have 3 cats! but don't worry,,i keep her safe.she is in a cage at night by my bed and free to bathe and hang by the window while i go to work. cats cant get to her. but she does not like to be handled and i would definitely need help.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The flight feathers looked damaged, as could happen if kept in a cage, especially if the cage were chicken wire or something like that, but even in a dog crate they can do that.

You never answered.......how long have you had the bird?


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> thanks to all of you for your responses and for posting her picture. I was informed of Wheat Germ Oil by a neighbor of my mother who has a flock of pigeons and i have just started yesterday giving it to her. she is a wild/feral bird and plucking would be very difficult. you see. I have 3 cats! but don't worry,,i keep her safe.she is in a cage at night by my bed and free to bathe and hang by the window while i go to work. cats cant get to her. but she does not like to be handled and i would definitely need help.


Plucking is dead easy, if you can pluck an eyebrow, you can pluck a feather, just let me know if u want to try and I will send u two videos with explanation, that bird could be fully feathered and flying within two weeks to a month my way, within a year you way, either way, Im glad you have her and are taking good care


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

JAY3, I have had her in my custody/care for about 13 days,,i promise she was like that when I caught her. yes,the flight feathers are practically gone. she cant get over 4 ft in the air.CBL, yes I would like the videos if you think that would do the trick. I would just love to see her fly again!! also,in case you misunderstood me,,she is in the cage only at night, during the day I let her out and she has a couple of perches to sit on and windows to look out of and a shallow pan to bathe(I read they need to bathe every day due to a skin thing?) and drinking water and food etc.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They don't need to bathe every day. But they do like bathing. A couple of times weekly is good. During the winter, I don't set the bath up as much as it's cold out in the aviary where I put the bath, but on decent sunny days I do. During the summer they do get it several times a week.

You don't know where she was before you got her. The feathers look like damage from wear.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

Jay3, I don't know where she goes, she roosts in my palapa, she seems to be a loner,,anyway, and she was gone for a while,i believe she might have had young to raise since I saw the boys all up on her a few times,,ha,and she came back with her feathers starting to go,,then it got worse, that's when I stepped in since I have a pool and cats.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Pm me your email address for videos and I can guarantee she will be flighted within a month, IF she is not bald due to to some odd disease.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL, they look damaged, rather then diseased.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

CBL, thank you, I kind of feel like others don't believe me when I say I don't know why her wings lost feathers and I'm sorry about that.i live in las vegas where absolutely NO one likes pigeons. I know of only one other here in town besides me that loves them and that is Mike Tyson. CBL here is an idea,,i can mail her to you and you can pluck her,,just kidding. my email is [email protected] I really cherish this little bird,she is feisty and shows no other weakness or disability. she seems very healthy other than her wings and I am giving her vitamin supp. in her food.also,she is dropping 1 or 2 feathers a day,is that good? I keep forgetting to tell you that.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It isn't that people don't believe you. Just trying to help you figure out what's going on. Certainly not blaming you. No telling where she was before you got her.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> CBL, thank you, I kind of feel like others don't believe me when I say I don't know why her wings lost feathers and I'm sorry about that.i live in las vegas where absolutely NO one likes pigeons. I know of only one other here in town besides me that loves them and that is Mike Tyson. CBL here is an idea,,i can mail her to you and you can pluck her,,just kidding. my email is [email protected] I really cherish this little bird,she is feisty and shows no other weakness or disability. she seems very healthy other than her wings and I am giving her vitamin supp. in her food.also,she is dropping 1 or 2 feathers a day,is that good? I keep forgetting to tell you that.


Lol I would gladly pluck for you, its so easy its crazy, I wll send you vids in a second and if you have ANY questions, just email me and ask and if you have long distance to Canada I will give you my number to call.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

hey Jay3,i see you are on,,do you think it is a good sign that she is dropping a feather or 2 a day? or not,,i keep forgetting to tell you guys cause there is so much going on with her.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

My birds lose feathers. I'm sure she needs vitamins, so she may be losing more because of it.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ya perfectly normal


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I am giving her stuff with wheat germ oil in it which she really likes. however,,she is so ornery.She pecks at my hand when I reach in to collect her to place her in her area for the day and throws her wing at me! too funny! she does however settle down in my arms which she didn't do in the beginning. she is making progress with new feather growth,unfortunately not the flight ones as of yet. I'm having a very difficult time with the plucking cause she is way too uncomfortable. I believe Jay3 might be right when he thought she might have been hurt by someone in the past because she is very very head shy.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No they are all head shy in the beginning unless completely tame and hand raised. Why cant you pluck? Did u get my videos?


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird. Is it possible she is just molting at a weird time? Hope she is all better soon. Thank you for helping her!


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

well everyone I want to thank you for your patience and wisdom with helping me and my little feathered, well,mostly feathered,friend. I have been feeding her avian formula with balanced omega for all bird breeds and other treats with vitamins and wheat germ oil. she has been dropping her bad feathers and the new plumage is magnificent! she still hasn't gotten 100% flying condition yet, however,i promised her if she can get to her spot in my palapa by herself, I will set her on her own. well,she was able to and also was able to actually fly up onto the power line behind my house to hang with her friends!!! she and of course so was I,,was so happy,,she was so cute and excited.i will absolutely keep an eye on her and keep up with the vitamins at least until she is 100%. once again thank you all,,i will write again in a few days if that's ok just to keep up her progress. man I am so happy!


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to see this update


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> well everyone I want to thank you for your patience and wisdom with helping me and my little feathered, well,mostly feathered,friend. I have been feeding her avian formula with balanced omega for all bird breeds and other treats with vitamins and wheat germ oil. she has been dropping her bad feathers and the new plumage is magnificent! she still hasn't gotten 100% flying condition yet, however,i promised her if she can get to her spot in my palapa by herself, I will set her on her own. well,she was able to and also was able to actually fly up onto the power line behind my house to hang with her friends!!! she and of course so was I,,was so happy,,she was so cute and excited.i will absolutely keep an eye on her and keep up with the vitamins at least until she is 100%. once again thank you all,,i will write again in a few days if that's ok just to keep up her progress. man I am so happy!


Did her primary flights come in? Did you pluck them? Allowing her out prematurely because she can get loft is not a good idea, she may be able to get some loft but will never be able to outmaneuver an air wolf. Hawks are insanely agile and will out maneuver her easily. I would have waited till those feathers were in or plucked them, you know u can even pay a vet to do so. That way she would be fully flighted and ready to go. Just sayin....


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

thank u,,i live in a city where pigeons are NOT welcome! I thought about the vet also but have been warned just like what you told me here to make sure they don't just euthanize her. Yes her flights came in,,just 2 on each side she is still working on. She can fly ok,,and, yes, I do have an air wolf hunting my yard! I have idiotic neighbors that shoot at the birds on the power line if you can believe that! so she is definitely very cautious,(basically terrified),,its a sick world we live in. I sent pics to CBL hoping they would post them here,i am not computer savvy.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The feathers are stuck in the sheath, lack of preening it off can keep it in the sheath, they can go through this when they are feathering out As a young bird, if you take your finger nail and scratch at the sheath that is containing the feather it should come off and free his flights. They may look wrinkled but will come about and normalize. No one knows why this happens, only guesses.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL, would you post the pictures? Thanks.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> thank u,,i live in a city where pigeons are NOT welcome! I thought about the vet also but have been warned just like what you told me here to make sure they don't just euthanize her. Yes her flights came in,,just 2 on each side she is still working on. She can fly ok,,and, yes, I do have an air wolf hunting my yard! I have idiotic neighbors that shoot at the birds on the power line if you can believe that! so she is definitely very cautious,(basically terrified),,its a sick world we live in. I sent pics to CBL hoping they would post them here,i am not computer savvy.


Are you not able to keep this bird as an inside pet? To be outside alone and afraid is not ideal. If you cant keep her in and safe, can you please find her a home that will or a rehab centre, she is a sitting duck, exposed out in the open for any predator to crawl up and nab her in the night. I have horrid pics of such happenings. 

I look at them now and then to remind myself to do perimeter checks on my own coop. At the top of my back doors a squirrel started to chew a hole thru the doors, so I had to put sharp wire to stop them.

But this bird being outside alone, no coop or cage and roosting on your porch believe me is a matter of time before she gets nabbed. I had 2 free flying ferals killed in situ by a screech owl, and since then, have never kept any that way. Its either a coop or cage or I dont keep them. Also with just two flights in on each side, she is not ready for release and has a disadvantage to evade said predators.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL that the bird is a sitting duck for predators without being protected and indoors. That would be tragic.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

twolf423 said:


> thank u,,i live in a city where pigeons are NOT welcome! I thought about the vet also but have been warned just like what you told me here to make sure they don't just euthanize her. Yes her flights came in,,just 2 on each side she is still working on. She can fly ok,,and, yes, I do have an air wolf hunting my yard! I have idiotic neighbors that shoot at the birds on the power line if you can believe that! so she is definitely very cautious,(basically terrified),,its a sick world we live in. I sent pics to CBL hoping they would post them here,i am not computer savvy.


No need to be a computer savvy to upload pics here if your device supports it. After you click on reply, see there is a tool bar above where you type. On that there is an icon like paper clip (meant for attachment) after fonts, sizes, colors and smiley. Click on that and it will ask you to browse the pic, after you browsed it you will have to click on update and then close the window and it is done  
If this all is difficult send me an email with pics, I will do it(check your pm for my email id) 
Perhaps CBL's device too doesn't support posting pics sometimes so may be she isn't able to do because of that.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

twolf423 said:


> thank u,,i live in a city where pigeons are NOT welcome! I thought about the vet also but have been warned just like what you told me here to make sure they don't just euthanize her. Yes her flights came in,,just 2 on each side she is still working on. She can fly ok,,and, yes, I do have an air wolf hunting my yard! I have idiotic neighbors that shoot at the birds on the power line if you can believe that! so she is definitely very cautious,(basically terrified),,its a sick world we live in. I sent pics to CBL hoping they would post them here,i am not computer savvy.


The feathers are stuck in the sheath, lack of preening it off can keep it in the sheath, they can go through this when they are feathering out As a young bird, if you take your finger nail and scratch at the sheath that is containing the feather it should come off and free his flights. They may look wrinkled but will come about and normalize. No one knows why this happens, only guesses.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

thank you spirit wings,if I can re-collect her,i will definitely try that. She really hates to be handled though, every time I would try to examine her wings she would get very upset and pull it back real hard. My mom will be in town this weekend and if Poppy(pigeon's name),still hasn't got all her flights in,,we will take care of it!


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

oh my god you guys! if she was killed I would just die! please know that!!! I ,however, have no place at my house for her to be while I am at work. she is flying great, she really is. she just hated being in captivity,i kid you not, seriously hated it! I spoiled the poop out of her and she still hated it. she kept doing the" PIGEON KUNG POW" at me with her wing! she really is fine and safe,,please don't think I don't care because I totally do. basically the reason I don't have a spouse, I love animals more!


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> oh my god you guys! if she was killed I would just die! please know that!!! I ,however, have no place at my house for her to be while I am at work. she is flying great, she really is. she just hated being in captivity,i kid you not, seriously hated it! I spoiled the poop out of her and she still hated it. she kept doing the" PIGEON KUNG POW" at me with her wing! she really is fine and safe,,please don't think I don't care because I totally do. basically the reason I don't have a spouse, I love animals more!


She didnt hate being in captivity, and wing slapping is NORMAL when they just dont want to be touched, (even my tamest may do that from time to time) One of my tamest hens rushes my hand and coos at me and pecks when I open her cage and then she immediately flies to me for cuddles and treats, it pigeon language u dont understand yet and you think it means she hates it, but they can and DO tame down with time and recognition, so you may perceive her as hating it because you are misreading her body language, for her to be where she is, is not safe. If she has to dogde neighbors bullets and raccoons and hawks, life is hell. She is stressed and that is why she hides under your lanai or umbrealla or whatever the bamboo hut is.

Also you said she flew to the wires to the other pigeons, IF she wanted to be with them and not you, she would fly off WITH them to roost and forage during the day and she is not.

Take my good advice and bring her back into safety., or give her away as a pet. Just because she flies well doesnt mean she is bullet proof or safe from predators ESPECIALLY at night when roosting, she IS a sitting duck, cant say it any more plainly and I will say no more.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree that the pigeon is a pet needing protection. Please keep her inside in a cage when you are not there or find her a home with someone with pet pigeons. Thanks.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Wanted to post these pics which you sent me but these actually don't show up the flight wings which we were talking about. 
Secondly i am not getting if you have released her? And she is hiding under umbrella terrified by bullets?
I am really not getting if it is the situation but yes if it is I agree completely with CBL. Pls pls pls if you care for her, what are you doing? You know death by gun shot is how terrible? If you see a bird dying by gun shot and killed, you will probably come to know. I remember my childhood when I saw a bird dying like this by my own brother's air gun when he was learning to shoot. He shot a bird because she was eating fruits from our guava tree while my brother asked me to chase them away if they harm this tree and we had a deal but the time he killed I was offering my prayer and I asked my brother to stop by a hand gesture but he just pressed the trigger and I kept seeing the bird who was eating guava and she started bowing her head and suddenly she fell off. I shouted over my brother, cried badly, sobbed seeing her dead face and beak which had guava pulp in it, can you imagine the punishment like this by those cruel people tho my brother was a kid just maximum 12 but he was very good at shooting. I couldn't forget that scene since then and while I am typing this i am badly hurt. But I am telling you because you may understand this is my love for them so I can't imagine you can let her be free in such place she could be shot. You know I cried so much and I said to my brother that I will never talk to him in my life but it changed my brother completely, that was the last day of his shooting and he never touched that gun for long since then and when he raised it again just for game to target non living objects. 
It is really painful, I can feel it now how much it is, I won't be able to forget it ever. 
Pls think once, if you can't keep her we all understand, but releasing her is not a solution. She will live and she deserves a good life because I am sure she will grow her wings soon. All you have to do it pls post for her in adoption forum. She may find a new home where they can keep her safe. But pls think about it. That's a request.
You have cared for her but she shouldn't die terribly when you love her a lot. 
I am sorry if you feel anything offended about but really I didn't mean anything wrong except for her safely over a terrible death. I didn't mean to write anything else but just to make you understand to save her from a severe punishment for being a pigeon .


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Kiddy, felt sad reading your story. And hope the pigeon is kept indoors or adopted to someone as a pet so he will be safe.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I love you guys for all your advice and support. i want to clear one thing up though, when i said the hawk was hunting my yard, i meant my neighborhood which is a 2 mile or so area. can i get some ideas on how to tame or get her to trust me? i have had her around for a little over 2 years and don't want to give her away cause i consider her a part of my little clan,even though 3 of the clan are cats. my cats are way too lazy to bother with her, but she doesn't know that which makes for a challenge. i first met her when she was in my pool over 2 yrs ago struggling on a ledge (3"below water level) that is around one side of the pool,,even then she tried to jump in the pool to get away when i have had other birds who get bumrushed in and actually come to me to get them out. i will collect her when i get home tonight and get a enclosure that is fitting for her size,,,i promise. i have a lot to learn about these special little spirits and will need a lot of help along the way, like i said,,i need advice on how to get a wild pigeon to trust you.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

twolf423 said:


> I love you guys for all your advice and support. i want to clear one thing up though, when i said the hawk was hunting my yard, i meant my neighborhood which is a 2 mile or so area. can i get some ideas on how to tame or get her to trust me? i have had her around for a little over 2 years and don't want to give her away cause i consider her a part of my little clan,even though 3 of the clan are cats. my cats are way too lazy to bother with her, but she doesn't know that which makes for a challenge. i first met her when she was in my pool over 2 yrs ago struggling on a ledge (3"below water level) that is around one side of the pool,,even then she tried to jump in the pool to get away when i have had other birds who get bumrushed in and actually come to me to get them out. i will collect her when i get home tonight and get a enclosure that is fitting for her size,,,i promise. i have a lot to learn about these special little spirits and will need a lot of help along the way, like i said,,i need advice on how to get a wild pigeon to trust you.



Aw then you have come to the right place  We ARE the pigeons specialists and I happen to have ALL sorts of home videos of how to tame down a pigeon. So lets start here, I DID totally understand that the 'hawk' was the kid with the bb gun, hence the comment that your bird is not 'bullet proof', so lets start over.

Bring her in tonight, go to your pm and get my personal email, email me at your convenience and we shall start the taming  I have 4 girls that HOUND me day and night for affection that ALL started out wild as yours 

Look forward to the transition of this bird.....

p.s. be WARY of the fattest laziest cat, they are ligtening quick when they want to be. One of my ferals was killed by said lazy fat cat years ago....


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Twolf, glad to hear from you that you are taking the bird in. 
I am sure you will keep your promise and update us with pics pls. Thank you


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

twolf423 said:


> I love you guys for all your advice and support. i want to clear one thing up though, when i said the hawk was hunting my yard, i meant my neighborhood which is a 2 mile or so area. can i get some ideas on how to tame or get her to trust me? i have had her around for a little over 2 years and don't want to give her away cause i consider her a part of my little clan,even though 3 of the clan are cats. my cats are way too lazy to bother with her, but she doesn't know that which makes for a challenge. i first met her when she was in my pool over 2 yrs ago struggling on a ledge (3"below water level) that is around one side of the pool,,even then she tried to jump in the pool to get away when i have had other birds who get bumrushed in and actually come to me to get them out. i will collect her when i get home tonight and get a enclosure that is fitting for her size,,,i promise. i have a lot to learn about these special little spirits and will need a lot of help along the way, like i said,,i need advice on how to get a wild pigeon to trust you.


First you need to catch her/him. Check the sheaths to unfurl the feathers, then AFTER, do your research on trying to tame feral pigeons, hopefully that is what she wants too or else your just pushing an idea she does not need or want. But that is not important now. 

So before getting all emotional the bird needs to be caught, otherwise not much to talk about here. Good luck getting her secure.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

well, Poppy,(my little pigeon friend),has definitely shown me that in no way no how she will be ANYBODY'S pet! She definitely longs to be out in the wild world. I just want her to be happy. Oh,duh,,,the happy news,,ALL of her flights are in!!!! She is flying like there was never an issue! I am so happy for her I cant stand myself. I am having personal issues right now I have to tend to,,but I wanted Poppy to be 100% first. I will keep feeding her the treats with the omegas and vitamins in hope that she never has to go thru this again. She will roost in my palapa as long as I let her,,which will be forever, so I will have a little control of her food. I will post pics hopefully she will give me a good profile look so you can see her beautiful new plumage. When you said your 4 girls beg for attention I think that is so very cool..but believe me when I say that she wants no part of captivity life. Maybe cause I kept kissing her on her head? I just love her so much I could squeeze the stuffins outta her,,haha oh and when I brought her in the night I wrote last,,she proceeded to literally throw her food all over the cage!!! she was an angry bird! she likes her freedom, I cant take that away ,,,till next time ,thanks again you guys you are all awesome!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she pairs up with a male, then she will go elsewhere and she may not even be around. That is usually what happens. You will not have any control of her food then.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

JAY,,,,,,,,STOP IT!!! hahahaha,,know I am just kidding,,ok? she is a loner, she has actually had action from males and raised the young(I'm assuming) but always comes back to my safe palapa after a little over a month or so. She uses them and dumps them! (the males i am referring to ) she is a happy single lady like myself.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

hi guys,,still trying to get a good profile of my girl. I told my story of helping her to a fellow employee and when another came in on the end of the conversation, he smiled and asked what kind of bird I was helping. I told him it was a pigeon and he got this look of disgust! People here absolutely hate these sweethearts. Its like taboo to say you like or care about them  So I asked him,,"What if you were that pigeon,and you were grounded"? "wouldn't you want someone to help you? he didn't have a lot to say after that,,it stopped him in his tracks cause he was getting ready to talk bash them. the point being,,i am grateful that these birds have fans and I am not the only one,,and its great to talk about these birds to people who love them like I do. THANKS


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Pigeons are misunderstood, underrated, and reviled by people who have never gotten to know them. Part of our job is to teach others how special they are and that they deserve protection. Thank you for educating people about them. My own brother used to chase them away from their nests with a laser pointer until he was able to meet Phoebe and he learned more about pigeons. I knew nothing about them until we got Phoebe and I started reading posts here. They are beyond special. They are lovely, great parents, loyal companions, fantastic racers...many unique qualities not appreciated by people who haven't spent time "up close and personal" with them.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

hi everyone, I finally got a picture of Poppy's flights,YAY! yes,she looks a little frightened but I leave to go to work in the dark and she doesn't really let me close enough anyway in the day to take a good picture.I sent them to Kiddy and hope that Kiddy posts it here for me,,(hint hint) she is doing great I promise. I know I am not popular with everyone in a good way right now because I haven't taken her in,,but she is totally safe and I am dedicated to protecting her.I really really do enjoy this forum and hope to learn more about these fabulous, misunderstood(just like wolves) sweet little animals!!


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi, 
I am happy to post it for you and the bird's wings have grown up very well. Thanks for the pic. 
Also what we think and want, we can't force someone else to think or want. It is your understanding that you didn't take her in but our understanding was different but again you will either do or you won't, so it is up to you. We are here just for our love for birds and when they die terrible deaths, it is something like passing through the hell. Sometimes we advise someone to medicate for something, people don't take that advice seriously thinking the bird has something else but when the bird dies we are so helpless we can't describe because being here, advising the best we can, still not followed and lead to death. So you can understand how desperate a person can feel in such situation. 
We have no hard feelings for you but we just want the bird to be protected and live a good life, that is what our motto to be here. So if ever something hurts you, don't think we have any intentions to offend you but it is just our concern and care for the bird we are trying to make you understand by every possible way. 
Hope you will not take any of my words in wrong sense and will try to protect the bird and give her a safe shelter forever. Thank you.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I appreciate your words of wisdom and ,yes,sometimes I am too sensitive,,really gotta work on that. you all know what you are talking about and I agree. I will forever protect her,,i am a homebody,,i only leave to go to work,,no life really,,so sad,,.she can always count on me you can assure ,and I will in a heartbeat take her in if conditions change,,that is a promise. I love her so much. pigeons are such sweeties!! once again,,i love you guys!! its really great to know other pigeon lovers,,i honestly didn't think there were people like you out there and so glad I found you. and,,i am a fledgling now,,woo hoo! bye for now


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Twolf423, am hoping for the best for you and Poppy. If you ever decide to take the bird in, you will be rewarded with lifetime love and companionship. Best wishes!


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

hi everyone! I hope everyone is doing good. I have been observing Poppy for a while now,what she does in the morning and during the day and then at the end of the day and wanted to run it by you guys. first, she sits in towards the back of her spot most the night and then as the sun approaches, she is out in the front roosting comfortably,,then she stretches her wings, eats her breakfast that I prepared,then, she flies away and I don't see her again until the evening, then she comes back home and eats her dinner,again,that I prepared,and does it all over again. I really do believe that she is truly happy that she is free to fly and do her own thing. like I say, I don't see her at all the whole day. do you think she would let me hang with her and her friends? hahaha i am hoping that the more i talk to her, the more she will get comfortable and maybe one day she will let me get close without being scared and flying away. i would have thought she would know by now i wasn't gonna hurt her. oh well,,,,,,thanks for listening and being there for me you guys,,,,until later ,give your little feathered friends hugs for me


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

A lone pigeon is not safe outside. If she is with some flock during the day, it is fine, else pray for her to be safe.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That isn't a feral bird. It's domestic and somebody owned her. I don't know what happened to her. Either they released her, or maybe she got lost and couldn't find her way home. For whatever reason she is out there, she isn't safe, and certainly isn't happy. A lone pigeon is not safe, nor are they happy. They live in flocks, and that is how they are both safe and happy. They are not happy alone. That's why she keeps coming back to your place. To be fed and for a place to hide from predators and be safe. If she were going to join a flock then she would have. She doesn't know how to survive out there on her own. And if she were spending time during the day with a flock then she would have paired up with one of them. You think she is happy, but she isn't. She is unsafe and scared by herself. You are not doing her any favors by letting her fly loose. A hawk or something is going to get her, and then you can tell yourself that it was just her time. Or that she isn't around, so she must have gone off with some flock. We have been telling you that she won't last out there, but you seem to want to believe what is best for you to believe. That bird needs to be in a loft with other birds, or as a pet somewhere. But we are all talking for nothing. I give up.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with the others that Poppy doesn't belong outside. Please catch Poppy and if you don't want to keep her, rehome her. You can look for a home on the adoption forum here or find someone with an aviary near you who raises pigeons. She is likely lost and will be hawk chow which is very very sad.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Twolf423, I know you are attached to her and so probably you don't want to rehome her but it would be so good for her life if she could get a home, a mate and shelter. 
If you get a home for her in nearby area you can probably go for that option. This is to save her life actually. 

You can post here in adoption forum with her pic and see if someone from your nearby areas responsds. If so, you can get in touch with them to know about her and even see her sometimes after she gets rehomed.

She will be happy and safe there that way if you like to follow the advice pls. 
I don't know exactly why you don't want to rehome her, just because you believe she is happy and well taken care of or any other reasons! Really don't know but actually we are concerned for her safety as well as for your love for her, you wouldn't like if she faces any problems I know.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

well,,Poppy has left me! she comes back to eat,,but doesn't stay. I am sad, I mean very sad. she hangs with the flock now and is in the best condition I have seen her in so far,,so she is confident I guess.i think I annoyed her in to leaving by talking to her and collecting her trying to get her comfortable with me(by the way her feathers are soooo soft),but it only made her wary of me. there are way too many birds in the flock but I can recognize her and she knows my voice so when I see her I call her and she seems to respond to it cause she flies right down and in the palapa to her bowl. I cant feed the rest,,too many.so,i just wanted to give the latest on my little friend. hope all is well with everyone.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry to hear Poppy left you but glad to hear she has found a flock.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad that she has got a flock. Though you miss her, still you must be happy and relieved for her to be safe.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

I am very very happy for my little baby girl, yes.but, I miss her presence I guess,i never thought I would fall so much in love with a bird, especially a pigeon, considering my whole life all I ever heard was how much people here really don't like them. its like taboo to say you actually like pigeons,,but I do anyway just to see the looks I get from people who have never taken time to get to know them. I am glad I have, they really are so sweet and some day I might have a couple for pets,,that would be fun. I was walking the other day, at work I walk the streets checking reads on water meters,i saw a pigeon laying on his back,i thought he was dead but his eye opened and I'm like, oh my gosh,you're alive! barely,sad,i picked him up and held him,his breast bone?iguess was ,I don't know how to explain,it seemed he was starving,i tried to feed and give water,but he was way past that. I held him until he died which was only a few minutes, but I couldn't let him lay in the street like he was and got some love his last few moments on this cruel planet. wow,i talk too much,,hope everyone and your feathered families are doing great, thanks for listening


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

That is SO sad but I know that feelling of being there for their last breath, VERY hard on us but for the greater good of that critter dying in the hands of a caring person, is the ONLY important thing. What a pity.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am so sorry for the poor bird. 
Next time for any starving bird, remember these steps always: warmth, hydration and feed only when he stabilizes. We don't feed any starving pigeon without warming and hydrating for a few hours until his body responds and he seems to be alert. Go through the link carefully :

www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Twolf423, thank you for making the poor birds last few minutes ones where he was cared about and loved.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

kiddy, THANK YOU for the advice and link you sent, I will definitely go thru the link carefully and slowly ,,I am learning so much about these wonderful creatures. I do have another question,,what to do with a bird who has that virus? or whatever it's called, where they cant fly and are very disoriented and hold their heads upside down? they try to fly and crash into the ground or wall or whatever,,but they cant fly straight. what causes this and what does one do to help a bird with this?


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Virus causing bird to hold head upside down:

PMV, or *P*ara*M*yxo*V*irus (I've seen it spelled paramixovirosis)

Pigeons trying to pick up a seed usually misses the seed, pecks next to it. If he manages to get the seed in his beak, he will often swing or twitch his head sideways, and the seed gets tossed to the side. Pigeon starves.

Pigeon must be caught and hand-fed. Hand feeding two or three times a day is relatively easy to do. 

I have used a V-shaped kitchen utensil or a tube to dump a full tablespoon of mixed seeds down the throat into the crop in three or four seconds. 

I use a cheap plastic 10ml (or 15-ml ?) pipette (available at hobby shops and pharmacies) to make sure the pigeon is hydrated. 

Using the thumb and index finger of one hand to hold the beak open, I gently insert the pipette a few inches down the throat, past the opening of the trachea at the base of the tongue, to avoid aspiration of fluids into the lungs, and squeeze the bulb of the pipette. I use water, a bit of apple cider vinegar (with the "mother" or sediment in it) to keep the pH value a bit acidic. 

If you use _PMV_ and or _paramyxovirus_ as search terms in YouTube, you will access a number of videos dealing with various aspects of the subject.

Here is a link to two videos of my PMV rescue pigeon *Jimmy-Z*

Jimmy-Z with air in a torn crop (it healed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb0fgpFKRVo

*Jimmy-Z eating from a deep dish of seeds, then tossing seeds*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1iN7cR12XA

Jimmy-Z recovered (temporarily, at least), and I released him back to the feral flock in Cologne. Didn't have a re-habber accessible at the time, and couldn't keep him in my apartment. He was a young, very strong and handsome pigeon. I caught him by backing him against a wall and quickly tossing my coat over him. An older bird may not have been so easily trapped.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

twolf423 said:


> kiddy, THANK YOU for the advice and link you sent, I will definitely go thru the link carefully and slowly ,,I am learning so much about these wonderful creatures. I do have another question,,what to do with a bird who has that virus? or whatever it's called, where they cant fly and are very disoriented and hold their heads upside down? they try to fly and crash into the ground or wall or whatever,,but they cant fly straight. what causes this and what does one do to help a bird with this?


When they are going through this stage I would not let him fly. If he always is like that, then better to clip his wings than to have him hurt himself.
PMV or other things also can cause neurological symptoms, so you need to keep him safe.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Here is some more information over PMV:

www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/pigeon-paramyxovirus-aka-pmv-ppmv-pmv1-pigeon-12248-2.html

Agree with Jay, a PMV pigeon will hurt himself while flying, they actually don't feel they are sick and react normally but when fly they fly into things because of their neurological problems and heads upside down so you have to be very careful keeping them. They just need time and supportive care because they can't eat on their own well, while trying to drink they sometimes get drowned so everything needs to be kept in mind.

Larry_cologne has posted some good information too. I think we have enough to know about PMV theoretically here. 
Thanks to everyone for their valuable inputs.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

thank u everyone,,especially the feeding and hydration info. I just assumed if I had him safe and warm with a clean enclosure and changed the water twice a day and all that he would be ok,,but it looks like I will need to really take this much more seriously. When I hold him(sitting on the couch trying to bond) his head is upside down as he looks up at me with those sweet, sweet innocent eyes,blinking at me,,i melt. does anyone know why this happens? is it do the the weather changing to cold? oh, and he enjoys his neck massaged,,but you all probably already know that,,haha and he is a master also,,at the "PKP" (pigeon kung pow) just kidding,having fun,,i have named him 'Boomer' and will take very good care of him,i promise.


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I have watched a couple of PMV pigeons (years ago in Cologne) choose a broad landing area, such as a flat rooftop across the narrow street from my small apartment, for crash landing. They couldn't do precision landing, such as on a narrow window ledge or on a tree branch.

I managed to catch a couple of them and keep them a few weeks for hand-feeding, until I had to release them. There were some I couldn't catch, and I usually saw them only for a couple of days before they disappeared from the local scene, probably having starved.

As an adult male with a couple of babies in the nest, my rescued-as-a-paratyphoid-baby-and-hand-raised *Wieteke* exhibited PMV symptoms for a week. He would crash into the wardrobe door instead of making it to the top, and would twist his head and "star-gaze." I set a small electric heating pad on low, put a towel over it, and he spent half a day on it with his wings outspread, mouth gaping and panting heavily. I kept him well-fed and hydrated, and dosed him with Versele-Laga pigeon liquid vitamin/mineral supplement. His symptoms passed quickly, and did not re-appear over the next year or so.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

yes,,"star-gazing",,perfect way to explain how they hold their heads. where can I get that versele- laga pigeon liquid? I still have "Boomer"(short for boomerang,,he flys like a badly thrown boomerang)anyway,,i have to hand water him most the time,he can get food ok,,when he is alone I noticed he can stand alright, then when I approach he kinda grunts and his head goes right down to the bottom of the cage upside down. he is so busy trying to get it right its sometimes hard to settle him down to get water in him,,haha,,but I am getting a lot better at it and he is actually getting used to me better also. he does like to be rubbed,when he is looking up at me from his upside down pose,and blinks his pretty eyes,,i just love him! but,,like I say,i don't think he is improving at all. I was also giving him a product called "The Missing Link" for birds,,a powder u put on their food and vitamin liquid that u put in the water,,,do I need to just be patient? please advise


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

*sneezing?*



Larry_Cologne said:


> Virus causing bird to hold head upside down:
> 
> PMV, or *P*ara*M*yxo*V*irus (I've seen it spelled paramixovirosis)
> 
> ...


here is an odd question, maybe? I am still helping the bird I have named BOOMER,,who is so sweet and different than POPPY in the way that he is a lot more trusting and so I can do more in helping him/her. do pigeons, or any bird for that matter sneeze? also,,how does one tell what gender a pigeon is? I have bought BOOMER a sweet enclosure that is very roomy and high so he can, as his health improves of course, move around more and spread his wings and practice his balance and I am having fun with it all,,i let him out all the time and he loves it,,my cats even behave and it seems BOOMER really trusts me in keeping him safe! looking forward to hearing from all of you guys,,my fellow pigeon guardians!


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

One of my rescues, Pidgiepoo, would sneeze when he got a small down feather in his ceres or nasal opening after preening. I would sometimes try to help him get it out.

I used a medium-sized dog/cat pet carrier as a indoor coop for my occasional rescue pigeon. Set it up high on a wardrobe, and usually left the wire door open. I had a brick inside, and cycled a couple of old dish towels to catch the poops, and cleaned daily. Bird felt safe higher up. Didn't have it so high that any fumes I might be unaware of would endanger the bird.

One needs to be aware of common household chemicals and foods which are poisonous for birds, such as Teflon cooking pans and utensils, hair sprays, et cetera.


----------



## twolf423 (Jul 6, 2015)

SIZE="7"][/SIZE] HI EVERYONE,,I HOPE ALL IS WELL. I WAS ABLE TO LET BOOMER GO, HE FLEW AWAY JUST FINE WITH A FULL BELLY AND ALL! I HATE THIS CITY THOUGH,I WENT TO TAKE A BREAK AT MCDONALDS AND AFTER SITTING IN MY WORK VEHICLE FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES OR SO, UP CAME ABOUT 12, LETS JUST SAY,12 OF THE MOST RAGGEDY, TATTERED GROUP OF DIRTY,GREASY, SAD PIGEONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!! SO,AFTER LIFTING MY JAW UP AND OFF THE SEAT,,I WENT IN TO WALGREENS AND BOUGHT SEED TO FEED THEM. THERE WAS ONE I TRIED TO COLLECT DUE TO IT HAVING A STRING THAT WAS ATTACHED TO HER LEGS CAUSING HER TO BE HOG TIED AND,NOT ONLY THAT,BUT A TOE ON EACH FOOT WAS 3 TIMES THE SIZE DUE TO LACK OF CIRCULATION AND I KNOW THE POOR THING IS IN PAIN. HOWEVER, THOSE MEAN PEOPLE AROUND THERE IN THE SHOPPING AREA WERE GIVING ME A HARD TIME FOR HELPING THEM ,(if u can believe that)BECAUSE I WENT THERE 3-4 TIMES TO FEED AND TRY TO CAPTURE THE ONE BIRD AND I PUT A BOWL OF WATER FOR THEM ALSO.SO, I WENT BACK YESTERDAY,AND NOW,I ONLY SAW ONE BIRD AND THE BOWL IS GONE. I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM,I AM WORRIED I GOT ATTENTION ON THEM AND SOMEONE HAD THEM REMOVED,,BUT I DONT KNOW. I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE CAN BE NEXT TO A HUNGRY ANIMAL AND BE FINE WITH IT AND NOT TRY TO HELP.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry to hear people were giving you a hard time for feeding hungry birds. Please don't give up.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's sad. Really how people are so mean to demotivate others for helping poor creatures. 
Thankfully many people feed feral pigeons and help them in the area I live.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They don't like that around shopping centers as the birds roost in the signs and places like that, and can make quite a mess. Better off to find somewhere that they congregate that isn't in places like that and feed them there. I have done the same thing, but have had store managers come out to tell me not to. When there is a holiday or something where the stores will be closed, we drive to the area and leave seed for the pigeons and the hard cat food for the seagulls. They like that, and can have a feast with no one around.


----------

