# Training White Homers



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay...so now I'm at the point that I need some advice (not that I haven't needed it all along!) I have fourteen young white homers that have been in my loft for three weeks tomorrow. I have been trap-training them since day three, and they seem to have a pretty good grasp of it. Every evening when I go to the loft to feed the birds, those fourteen birds immediately head out into the aviary (I used to have to shoo them out to the aviary before feeding). I close the trap, put down the food tray, and whistle. When I first started, it would take them five or so minutes to figure out that the food was on the other side of the bobs, and go through the trap. Now, when I whistle, all fourteen of them are in the loft and eating in less than thirty seconds.

Tomorrow, I will be removing the training cage from the landing board for the first time, and will just let them hang out there for an hour before feeding time. I figure that some or all of them will end up on the roof of the loft. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that they don't decide to exercise their freedom and take off to parts unknown. I figure after a few days of this, I can flag them up to loft-fly. This is the part where I need assistance.

I'm hoping that all of them will come back after loft-flying. I have read on here that road training shouldn't begin until the birds are "routing". What is meant by routing, and how long should I loft-fly them prior to starting with short training tosses?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Routing is when the bird go and explor and are gone for 30 min and some times for well over an hr. There is no set time to start road training. I don't start till the youngest bird drop a couple of its secondairy flights.
Dave


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Okay...so now I'm at the point that I need some advice (not that I haven't needed it all along!) I have fourteen young white homers that have been in my loft for three weeks tomorrow. I have been trap-training them since day three, and they seem to have a pretty good grasp of it. Every evening when I go to the loft to feed the birds, those fourteen birds immediately head out into the aviary (I used to have to shoo them out to the aviary before feeding). I close the trap, put down the food tray, and whistle. When I first started, it would take them five or so minutes to figure out that the food was on the other side of the bobs, and go through the trap. Now, when I whistle, all fourteen of them are in the loft and eating in less than thirty seconds.
> 
> Tomorrow, I will be removing the training cage from the landing board for the first time, and will just let them hang out there for an hour before feeding time. I figure that some or all of them will end up on the roof of the loft. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that they don't decide to exercise their freedom and take off to parts unknown. I figure after a few days of this, I can flag them up to loft-fly. This is the part where I need assistance.
> 
> I'm hoping that all of them will come back after loft-flying. I have read on here that road training shouldn't begin until the birds are "routing". What is meant by routing, and how long should I loft-fly them prior to starting with short training tosses?


sounds like your doing everything right.. it is a good idea to let these out late in the afternoon..with their age..they may be strong on the wing and fly too far off.. you will just have to wait and see.. your going to love flying homers.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> sounds like your doing everything right.. it is a good idea to let these out late in the afternoon..with their age..they may be strong on the wing and fly too far off.. you will just have to wait and see.. your going to love flying homers.


My kids can't wait. My ten-year-old son already has all the training tosses figured out. He says "Daddy, first we'll release them from the back yard where they can see the loft. Then we'll release them from the street in front of the house. Then we'll release them from Spring street (about 1/2 mile up the road.) Then, once they know their way home, we can release them from my school (about 1.5 miles), and then from the center of town (about three miles), and then we can release them from Uncle Philip's house (about ten miles).

I'm thinking that once they are trained some, I can load them in the crate in the morning and take them to work with me. I can release them from the parking lot at work, and it is about thirty miles direct to my house.

Of course...all this is if they don't just fly away the first time I let them out!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> My kids can't wait. My ten-year-old son already has all the training tosses figured out. He says "Daddy, first we'll release them from the back yard where they can see the loft. Then we'll release them from the street in front of the house. Then we'll release them from Spring street (about 1/2 mile up the road.) Then, once they know their way home, we can release them from my school (about 1.5 miles), and then from the center of town (about three miles), and then we can release them from Uncle Philip's house (about ten miles).
> 
> I'm thinking that once they are trained some, I can load them in the crate in the morning and take them to work with me. I can release them from the parking lot at work, and it is about thirty miles direct to my house.
> 
> Of course...all this is if they don't just fly away the first time I let them out!


I think if you keep the first few weeks of letting out at late afternoon they will get used to flying back in and not going too far.. then when they are flying well together..you can let them out at any time.. when they are flying well as a flock.. in a few months..then take them down the road.. it would be cool for your son to sit and watch them come in and report back to you..


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Your son has a very good plan.
Just be sure they are hungry when you toss them.
Also that close to the loft-they may not go "straight' to the loft-they may route before trapping.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Your son has a very good plan.
> Just be sure they are hungry when you toss them.
> Also that close to the loft-they may not go "straight' to the loft-they may route before trapping.


Thanks. Good to know that, as I would have probably been worried if I released them within sight of the loft and they took off in a different direction!

I learned about flying birds hungry with my rollers. Right now, these homers get fed once a day in the evening. I figure that I'll let them out the first few times about an hour before normal feeding time.
*
Edit:* Of course, all of this depends upon the weather. We've had rain every day for the past eight days!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*More questions...*

In addition to the fourteen young birds, I have a squeaker that is now five weeks old. I haven't moved him in with the other whites yet as his foster dad is still feeding him. Since he isn't with them, he hasn't been trap trained, and he hasn't been out in the aviary and the landing board yet. When I'm ready to move him in with the rest, what type of transition does he need? Can I just put him in with the (hopefully) already flying birds and let him learn from them?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> In addition to the fourteen young birds, I have a squeaker that is now five weeks old. I haven't moved him in with the other whites yet as his foster dad is still feeding him. Since he isn't with them, he hasn't been trap trained, and he hasn't been out in the aviary and the landing board yet. When I'm ready to move him in with the rest, what type of transition does he need? Can I just put him in with the (hopefully) already flying birds and let him learn from them?


That is pretty much what I do.. except I have a seprate space for the young ones and put them in there for about a week. then open up the whole loft for them to be in with everyone else. I stopped trap training my young because they did as you said..they just learned from the others.. usually they do not go out at first..but as they age they venture out and start flying a bit..and then another few weeks it is like they are part of the older flock ..it does not take them long.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> That is pretty much what I do.. except I have a separate space for the young ones and put them in there for about a week. then open up the whole loft for them to be in with everyone else. I stopped trap training my young because they did as you said..they just learned from the others.. usually they do not go out at first..but as they age they venture out and start flying a bit..and then another few weeks it is like they are part of the older flock ..it does not take them long.


That's good to know. S/he is currently in a pen in my loft that is adjacent to the flier's pen. They all watch each other through the screen. I expect s/he will go in with the fliers in about two weeks. Hopefully by then they will be loft flying daily.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Your youngest bird is 5 weeks old move it today They should be on thier own by 30 days.
Dave


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

with these white homers there is no need to pressure them like race birds..I let mine stay in the box for longer than race birds do.. usually when they are out of the box and eating out of the feeder like everyone else...then I move them.


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## cubanlofts (Sep 3, 2010)

I have white ones as well, something elsoe i do is releasing the young birds when the sun is going down, late tour the evening when theyhave like an hour of sun left, them call and feed, them gradually I will release them earlier and earlier, unitl normal time


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If you have no hawk problems now You can sart them anytime of the day. . And the 5 week old bird Well thats prime training age. Trap train it and it is safer to settle. As it is not as wing strong You others are getting old enough to fly out and get lost. They need loft trained NOW. White birds can be trained just like race birds. Except some do not have a good homing instinct. But selection as time goes by you can improve that agin.. Good luck and get out of the loft befor they get much stronger.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You should do fine. The most important is that they don't get startled at all!

By observation you know if you will become successful because the birds will not just take off right away. They will be hesitant first, then perhaps flutter to some higher area or even on the ground. Some adventurous ones will fly making circles and hopefully lands.

Those that suddenly take off, fly in circle and go off somewhere are those that can get lost. Or if theres is a hawk that startles them or chase them, then some might get lost.

Good luck! Your son's plan should work out. That seems to be easy training for homers.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

RodSD said:


> You should do fine. The most important is that they don't get startled at all!
> 
> By observation you know if you will become successful because the birds will not just take off right away. They will be hesitant first, then perhaps flutter to some higher area or even on the ground. Some adventurous ones will fly making circles and hopefully lands.
> 
> ...


Thanks. We had a hawk in the area, but I haven't seen it in a couple of weeks, as a pair of crows chased it away at that time. In addition, when we did see the hawk, it was always in the morning. Hopefully, between the crows, and releasing them at 4:30 in the afternoon, we won't have any hawk mishaps.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> with these white homers there is no need to pressure them like race birds..I let mine stay in the box for longer than race birds do.. usually when they are out of the box and eating out of the feeder like everyone else...then I move them.


This baby went down to the loft floor from the nestbox this past week. S/he eats from the feed tray when I feed them, but also squeaks and flaps at the dad until s/he gets fed. I think I'll move it next weekend.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Where are they?*

I took off the settling cage around 4:30 this afternoon, as 5:30 is their usual feeding time. Three birds stood on the landing board for a long time looking around, and then flew onto the roof of the loft. Over the next half hour, another eight birds went out one at a time. Most of them just flew off of the landing board, making a couple circuits of the yard and landing in trees around the yard. I watched them taking off and flying a number of times before 5:30. At that time, I closed the trap and put down the feed tray. I whistled, and the three birds that never left the aviary trapped immediately. About fifteen minutes later, one of the birds in the trees flew down and trapped right away. Another one flew down and landed on the roof of the loft with the original three.

At 6:30, I had to bring the kids to swimming, and left them in this configuration: Four birds were in the loft, four birds were on the roof of the loft, five birds were on the roof of the house about 150 feet away from the loft and the fourteenth bird was nowhere to be seen. When I got back around 8:00pm, it was starting to get dark. I could see that there were no birds on the loft or the roof of the house. I checked the loft, and there were now nine birds in there. The remaining five birds are nowhere to be seen.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will spend the night wherever they are and trap in the morning. I have had that happen a number of times with my rollers. I'll let you all know if/when they show up.

I took a few pictures of the birds on the loft roof, and will upload some when I get a chance.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Pictures*

Here are a couple pictures of some of the whites doing what they are supposed to be doing the first time out.

















And here is a picture of some whites doing what they are *not* supposed to be doing. In this picture, they are seventy-five feet up a pine tree! You can't see them all, but there were five birds in this tree.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

ptras said:


> Here are a couple pictures of some of the whites doing what they are supposed to be doing the first time out.
> 
> View attachment 19793
> 
> ...


 Im sure most of your birds will be around in the morning.One thing for sure though is that you never know what your birds are going to do on their first time out no matter how well think they were trap trained . First time out is always a new experiance and a stressful one at that .


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

They may copme back I woulds hold the moroning feedin and release the other birds Then put feed down in the morining after they are out. This way those late trappers may find home . THEN the young 5 week old bird IT needs to be trained and get it out of the loft while it is not wing strong. Train it out of the loft by its self Then let the others out for the first 4 5 days. Your older birds are getting strong enough if spooked to fly to far. The parent birds will feed until they grow tierd when a young bird is left with them. 30 to 35 days old is about the max weaning time on any breed. Some do 27 28 days I liked 30 days.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

ptras,

I forgot to tell you one advice during their first time out--*Never leave your wingman alone!*

You are supposed to plan in advance that you can't leave them alone their first time out. Too many variables can happen.

But because 5 birds are missing together, there is safety in them so they might be able to get back together unless their leader is the dumb one without homing ability.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Those birds are way to old to be let out for the first time, they should habe been in the wind weeks ago. You need to get your young bird in the settling cage now and in the wind in the next 5 days,
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

This morning there are four birds flying around my backyard. Every now and then, they rest on the roof of the house. Hopefully when they get tired or hungry enough they will trap in.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

ptras said:


> Here are a couple pictures of some of the whites doing what they are supposed to be doing the first time out.
> 
> View attachment 19793
> 
> ...


Those nails sticking out look like a wounded bird looking to happen. Glad your birds are working for you. Take care.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

at least they are still around.. they will get hungry.. you may need to adjust your feed to get a quicker result in the trapping.. but really if they are just for fun or release then what does it matter how quick they trap..unless you have to leave and secure the loft.. my birds are loft flown almost everyday now that it is late spring.. they go in at dark when they want..if I have to leave I just leave the trap open about 4 or 5 inches and they drop in but not much else could get in..I do not do that unless it is something unplanned that I have to leave..only has happend once.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> Those nails sticking out look like a wounded bird looking to happen. Glad your birds are working for you. Take care.


I noticed the nails after I took these pictures. Thinking the same thing you were, I pulled them this afternoon .


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*All is good!*

I'm happy to report that the remaining five pigeons trapped in today.

All day long, the five "outbirds" kept hanging out on the roof of the house. About every hour or so, they would take off and fly in circles around the back yard. They really looked great, flying in close formation. I wish I could get my rollers to kit that well!

Following the advice I've been given on this thread, I moved the five week old baby (six weeks Monday) in with the flyers. Around 5:00pm (a little before their usual feeding time), I put the settling cage back on the landing board. I then shooed them all (including the baby) out into the aviary. I put down food and whistled them in. The baby trapped right along with the others as if s/he had been doing so all along!

When I whistled, the five outbirds took off from the roof of the house. This time, four of them started circling, and the fifth made a beeline for the roof of the loft. I stayed quiet and remained low-profile, and sure enough, that bird trapped. The remaining four birds kept circling interspersed with short rests on the house roof. Around 7:00 pm, I was up at the house when my daughter pointed out the slider towards the loft. I went over to look, and saw that one of the birds was on the loft roof, and the other three were sitting on top of the swing-set that is about fifteen feet from the loft. As I watched, those three flew over to the roof of the loft one at a time. They all sat there for about twenty minutes, and then went down to the landing board and trapped in.

So...here are my results: fourteen birds flown yesterday afternoon, and fourteen birds back in the loft. I must admit, that I had a few nervous moments. The worst was around three this afternoon, when I witnessed a hawk come flying into our back yard. It had its wings half-folded, and was really cruising. It went right over four birds on the roof of the house, and went straight for the fifth bird that was roosted in a pine tree on the other side of the house at the time. That bird took off, and the four on the house joined it. They then started ranging farther from my yard than I had seen them go before. I kept an eye on the hawk, and watched as it flew away with a couple small birds harassing it. I think they were Blue Jays, but couldn't tell for sure from the distance. Almost as soon as the hawk left, all five birds were back on the roof of the house.

Now I need more advice. When should I fly them again? Should I do it tomorrow, or wait a day or two? I get home from work around 5:30, and usually feed the birds between 5:30 and 6:00. If I let them out when I get home, I can whistle them in around 6:30. It stays light until just before 8:00 at this time of year. What is the opinion on this?


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

ptras said:


> I'm happy to report that the remaining five pigeons trapped in today.
> 
> All day long, the five "outbirds" kept hanging out on the roof of the house. About every hour or so, they would take off and fly in circles around the back yard. They really looked great, flying in close formation. I wish I could get my rollers to kit that well!
> 
> ...


 Once they all come back the hard part is over so if it were me I would let them back out tomorrow and everyday that you can after that .Just always remember to fly them hungry and they will catch on fast that its dinner time when you call them .


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

I would try this
if you feed once a day just give them a half rashen of food one day then fly them the next. when hungry they should trap better. your birds will cooperate better when you contol them, and that is thru the feeding. the ones that dont trap should go hungry for that day. believe me they will trap a lot faster the next time. it sounds mean but it is ok the birds will be fine as long as they have something to drink.

regards 
Hank


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

If the weather isn't great, should I go ahead and fly them this afternoon? It is sorta gray and a little drizzly outside at the moment, and they're not predicting any change.

* *Today*: Cloudy with a few showers. High 56F. Winds SSE at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
* *Tonight*: Cloudy with occasional rain showers. Low around 55F. Winds S at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 50%.
* *Tomorrow*: Partly cloudy with isolated thunderstorms possible. High 76F. Winds SSW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 30%.
* *Tomorrow night*: Mostly cloudy with showers and a few thunderstorms. Low 59F. Winds S at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 50%.
* *Wednesday*: A few morning showers. Highs in the upper 60s and lows in the low 50s.
* *Thursday*: Mix of sun and clouds. Highs in the upper 70s and lows in the upper 50s.
* *Friday*: Scattered thunderstorms. Highs in the mid 70s and lows in the upper 50s.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Just my opinion
If the birds are settled in good---open the loft--if they fly good--if not --don't worry.
Feed them Flax seed--makes them kinda water proof.
They can fly 10-15 minutes longer than other birds before they get so wet that they have to sit down.
And during a Race thats puts them a few miles ahead of the pack.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Just my opinion
> If the birds are settled in good---open the loft--if they fly good--if not --don't worry.
> Feed them Flax seed--makes them kinda water proof.
> They can fly 10-15 minutes longer than other birds before they get so wet that they have to sit down.
> And during a Race thats puts them a few miles ahead of the pack.


Thanks. I'll see if my local feed store has flax. I'm actually thinking that it's not a bad thing to let them out when it is raining. Maybe they won't be so eager to stay out so long as they did last time.

Hey...I wonder if my wife is waterproof. She eats a granola cereal with flax seed in it all the time!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Released them again today...*

Around 4:00, I called home and had my son remove the settling cage from the landing board. This time, they all did what I expect they should have done when released Saturday. With the exception of a few who remained in the aviary, most of them came out onto the loft roof. From 4:00 until 5:30 when I got home, they just hung out there. A couple of them made some short flights of fifteen feet to the top of the swing-set, but went right back to the loft roof after a few minutes.

When I got home, there were ten birds on the loft roof, three on the landing board and two in the aviary. I went to the loft, filled the feed tray, closed the trap and whistled them in. In less than a minute, thirteen of them had trapped in. The remaining two sat on the loft roof for about another half hour, and then trapped in also.

It was drizzling and cool (50 degrees) outside, and they probably didn't feel like flying very far. Although it is supposed to be warmer tomorrow, we are supposed to get more rain/drizzle. I figured I'll follow the same routine, and let them hang out from 4:00 until I get home.

Thanks for all of the good advice I have received in this thread.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The last 2 that waited 30 min to trap, did you feed them.?
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> The last 2 that waited 30 min to trap, did you feed them.?
> Dave


There were a few grains left in the bottom of the feed tray, but not much. The birds usually clean it out pretty well in about fifteen minutes. They got a little food, but not much at all. When I went to remove the feed tray, those two birds were still standing on the floor looking longingly at the feed tray. The rest of them were all on perches fat and happy.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I'll bet the 2 are first too trap tomarrow.
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update*

I released them Tuesday and Wednesday also. Most of them sat on the roof of the loft, although there were three birds that stayed in the aviary both days. Tonight (Wednesday) when I whistled them in, seven of the birds on the loft roof took off and flew for about fifteen minutes before trapping in. I'm planning on continuing with this training through the end of next week. After that, I'll be back on here for advice on road-training them.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

White homers dont like to fly like racing homers do so dont expect the same thing from them as if you had a loft of racing homers . They like to sit on the roof more then flying and even when in the air it usually not as long sorry to say plus road training I would give them more time to get used to the distances you take them out too so go slow with them when you do take them on the road.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

PigeonVilla said:


> White homers dont like to fly like racing homers do so dont expect the same thing from them as if you had a loft of racing homers . They like to sit on the roof more then flying and even when in the air it usually not as long sorry to say plus road training I would give them more time to get used to the distances you take them out too so go slow with them when you do take them on the road.


It all depends on how they are trained. If allowed to sit the loft or other structures sure they get lazy. But if trained to fly at trap. They do that. And fly as long as regular rece birds. Plus some whites need that rebuild Meaning they need some new blood added. Crossing grizzle HENS make it faster From known good race birds over to white You start imp[roving there quality agin. And yes any other color BUT first thing is do not let the birds get lazy train them right And go from there.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

They have only been out a week you are 3 to 5 weeks from road training. They have a lot of muscle building to do, if they wont fly get one of those little plastic bow and arrows tape a tenis ball to the end. That should keep them out of the trees.
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

re lee said:


> It all depends on how they are trained. If allowed to sit the loft or other structures sure they get lazy. But if trained to fly at trap. They do that. And fly as long as regular rece birds. Plus some whites need that rebuild Meaning they need some new blood added. Crossing grizzle HENS make it faster From known good race birds over to white You start imp[roving there quality agin. And yes any other color BUT first thing is do not let the birds get lazy train them right And go from there.


I have read on this forum about a race for white birds only. I must assume that those birds are capable of the distances and speeds of regular colored homers. Is that correct?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> They have only been out a week you are 3 to 5 weeks from road training. They have a lot of muscle building to do, if they wont fly get one of those little plastic bow and arrows tape a tenis ball to the end. That should keep them out of the trees.
> Dave


They haven't been sitting in trees since the first day. Now, they are sitting on the roof of the house, or the roof of the loft. Can't do much about the roof of the house, as it is three stories in the back. It's difficult to throw a tennis ball up there because of the high angle. I was thinking of hauling out my RC helicopter to shoo them off the roof.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

That will get them off the roof, I think you are feeding them to much. Try giving them 2 tbl spoon a day per bird 1/3 in the morning and the rest at night.
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> That will get them off the roof, I think you are feeding them to much. Try giving them 2 tbl spoon a day per bird 1/3 in the morning and the rest at night.
> Dave


I have a feed scoop that holds approximately 2/3 cup of feed. I put three scoops in the feed tray for approximately 2 cups. They are fed once a day when they trap in the evening. That works out to just about 2 ounces of feed (by volume) per bird. They will eat all of that in about 5 to 7 minutes. Do you think that is too much? I feed them a mixture that is about 1/3 Purina Checker, 1/3 Oats, and the remaining 1/3 is half wild bird seed and half safflower seeds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> White homers dont like to fly like racing homers do so dont expect the same thing from them as if you had a loft of racing homers . They like to sit on the roof more then flying and even when in the air it usually not as long sorry to say plus road training I would give them more time to get used to the distances you take them out too so go slow with them when you do take them on the road.


I have to agree with this.. keep it in mind..these are not race birds and you will get race bird advice most times.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> They have only been out a week you are 3 to 5 weeks from road training. They have a lot of muscle building to do, if they wont fly get one of those little plastic bow and arrows tape a tenis ball to the end. That should keep them out of the trees.
> Dave


this is right.. you need to let them loft fly for another month or so before taking them down the road..do not get in a hurry there is no time table for taking them down the road..really pigeons get better as they mature..do not push them or you will have larger losses.. and too much stress on yB's can bring out sickness like cocci and others.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

FLY THE BIRDS HUNGRY. if they have not been fed and you let them loft fly they should begin to fly and trap. Far as race birds. Many whites as I have said have not been properly selected. That being said why baby them. One may need to train them slowere meaning taking them to the same release point more before moveing them down the road more. Mean time keeping return results To select the better birds for future breeding. I had 16 pair of whites would raise over 100 young birds and train them just like any race birds ewven tossed them with other race club members birds. Some would be slow many would get home just as the race birds did. I gave away the lesser birds to keep the better birds And crossed grizzles over to whites from race bred birds. A 100 and more whites in the air look rather ok watching them. I also had rather good race birds as well. It all takes time working the birds getting to know which birds to breed from and which to not. Years are part of pigeon keeping as it takes time to do anything and we have time


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Sounds like you have every thing under control.
Dave


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> Sounds like you have every thing under control.
> Dave


Thanks Dave.

Being somewhat of a control freak, I have found it to be very difficult to release the birds. Especially knowing that there are hawks nesting not to far from us.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*When will they start routing?*

My birds have been loft flying for just over a week. They are usually out for one to two hours, but spend only about 1/2 of that time flying. The rest of the time they sit on the loft roof or the roof of the house.

My yard is an oasis in a sea of trees. Basically, the area where I live is pretty well forested, with my land and the two properties on either side of us being the only substantial open land within about a mile. When they fly, they stay over the area of our three yards, within sight of the loft.

When they start routing, can I expect them to fly out of eyesight? How long do they need to be routing before I can start road training?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> My birds have been loft flying for just over a week. They are usually out for one to two hours, but spend only about 1/2 of that time flying. The rest of the time they sit on the loft roof or the roof of the house.
> 
> My yard is an oasis in a sea of trees. Basically, the area where I live is pretty well forested, with my land and the two properties on either side of us being the only substantial open land within about a mile. When they fly, they stay over the area of our three yards, within sight of the loft.
> 
> When they start routing, can I expect them to fly out of eyesight? How long do they need to be routing before I can start road training?


well, mine never did route like top race birds do..so after a few months of loft flying then I made them route by starting the road training.. released in sight of the loft the first two times..then across the street for the next two times..then went a mile out.. then a mile north south and east.. then I went about 5 miles N, S, E,.. then they went 10 N, S ,E.. at that point they should beable to do up to 50.. the whites are a bit different as they are not as fast or aggressives the racing pigeon blood lines.. I could tell a difference when I acctually got some racing blood line homers.. the matured quicker than my whites and flew faster and farther..so be patient with the whites..your not out win any races with these.. if they are for enjoyment then go slow, you want enough left to at least have some pairs so you can have some young next year..as you will have losses..just try to keep the losses down by going slow. and when it gets hot, I do not take them down the road..they just do not want to fly as much...but up where you are it may not get so hot up there as it does here in VA.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> well, mine never did route like top race birds do..so after a few months of loft flying then I made them route by starting the road training.. released in sight of the loft the first two times..then across the street for the next two times..then went a mile out.. then a mile north south and east.. then I went about 5 miles N, S, E,.. then they went 10 N, S ,E.. at that point they should beable to do up to 50.. the whites are a bit different as they are not as fast or aggressives the racing pigeon blood lines.. I could tell a difference when I acctually got some racing blood line homers.. the matured quicker than my whites and flew faster and farther..so be patient with the whites..your not out win any races with these.. if they are for enjoyment then go slow, you want enough left to at least have some pairs so you can have some young next year..as you will have losses..just try to keep the losses down by going slow. and when it gets hot, I do not take them down the road..they just do not want to fly as much...but up where you are it may not get so hot up there as it does here in VA.


No losses so far! (Knocking on wood!) They've flown daily for the last eight days, and every time, it's fifteen out and fifteen back. I did have a bird stay out overnight last night. It stayed on the roof of the house with Teddy. Teddy is one of my son's pigeons. He was given two Homer/Tippler crosses (Teddy & Skinny), and we finally decided that we would just start flying them. We released them about an hour before the whites yesterday. They flew with the whites, and Skinny flew back to his coop about the time I whistled the whites in. Teddy and three of the whites stayed up on the roof of the house, and kept doing a few circuits of the yard. Just before dusk, two of the three whites trapped in, and the last white and Teddy hunkered down for the night on the roof of the house. This morning, the last white trapped in, but Teddy stayed out. When I released the whites this afternoon, Skinny and Teddy flew with them. This time when I whistled the whites in, Skinny and Teddy both went back to their coop. I'm planning on releasing them with the whites from now on.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*I think they're routing!*

Yesterday, the birds scared the s#1T out of me. I released them around four, which is their usual time. I was out in the backyard finishing up the electrical hookup. I watched them as they flew a few circuits of the yard, and then all fifteen of them flew in a beeline south until they were completely out of sight. I had never seen any of them fly out of sight of the loft before. I was starting to get real nervous, as the loft where they were hatched is due south of me. I figured that Jake would be having fifteen birds show up at his doorstep.

I continued working on the loft electricity, and my wife soothed me, saying "trust them to do what homing pigeons are supposed to do and come home." They didn't return for about ten minutes, when I had just about given up on them. I breathed a huge sigh of relief when I looked up and saw all fifteen of them circling the backyard. After a few circuits, 12 of the fifteen headed off due east this time. The three remaining birds roosted on my roof. Although not as nervous this time, after about twenty minutes, I was starting to get worried again. They all returned after about a half hour.

Today, I released them at four again, and this time, all fifteen headed due east again. They were out of sight for about twenty minutes, when I saw two of them back circling the yard again. After another ten minutes or so, the other thirteen returned.

I haven't been so nervous since putting my kids on the bus for their first day of school!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Another training question*

I have a line on eleven more white squeakers. They are all five to eight weeks old. If I obtain them, I assume they need to go in separate quarters initially. I have a space for them, and would start trap training as soon as I got them. When I fly the current birds, do I need to coordinate the feeding and trap training of the new birds to when I call the current birds in? I would guess that if I don't, they will get confused about the whistle calling them for food.

Also, once the new birds are trap trained and I want to release them, I again assume that it must be done separately from the current birds. How does one handle this? Do you release them on alternating days? If I did that, would I put the others out into the aviary and have them trap in when I whistle in the birds that are out? Or do you release them at different times on the same day? If you do the latter, how does that effect the non-flying birds when you whistle the flying birds in? 

(Note: I feed my homers once a day in the evening when I call them in from flying. The food tray is removed fifteen minutes after they are called in.)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

feed everyone at the same time with your whistle..the locked down ones and the ones out, call the new ones in from the settleing cage the same time you call your flown ones...I would fly them seperate for the first two weeks ...then IMO they all can come out as they catch up pretty quick with your older ones.. just watch your birds and use your best judgement on exactly when to do it.. if they were your ybs..and hatched there I would just let them all out together as soon as they were trap trained and new how to get in..but usually they just follow the older ones in which is a plus. I have to admit I do not even trap train any thing that is hatched here..they learn how from my old birds..and usually they are too chicken to come out at first anyway...then when they do they learn quick..but I would put more effort in birds bought from some place else.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> feed everyone at the same time with your whistle..the locked down ones and the ones out, call the new ones in from the settling cage the same time you call your flown ones...I would fly them separate for the first two weeks ...then IMO they all can come out as they catch up pretty quick with your older ones.. just watch your birds and use your best judgment on exactly when to do it.. if they were your ybs..and hatched there I would just let them all out together as soon as they were trap trained and new how to get in..but usually they just follow the older ones in which is a plus. I have to admit I do not even trap train any thing that is hatched here..they learn how from my old birds..and usually they are too chicken to come out at first anyway...then when they do they learn quick..but I would put more effort in birds bought from some place else.


Thanks for the advice. I want to build up my flying stock, but I currently only have one breeding pair of white homers. So when I saw that the guy I bought my other whites from had more squeakers, I figured that was my best option.

I actually took the eggs my breeder whites laid a week ago and put them under a pair of rollers that laid within forty-eight hours of the whites. That roller pair has raised four rounds of babies since last summer, and the cock is a great father....feeding any baby that squeaks at it from the loft floor. I put fake eggs under the whites, but am going to remove them this weekend so they lay again.

When I pick up the new squeakers, I'm going to talk with the seller and see if he might sell me an older male to pair up with my widowed female. With two breeding pairs, my numbers should look a little better.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Thanks for the advice. I want to build up my flying stock, but I currently only have one breeding pair of white homers. So when I saw that the guy I bought my other whites from had more squeakers, I figured that was my best option.
> 
> I actually took the eggs my breeder whites laid a week ago and put them under a pair of rollers that laid within forty-eight hours of the whites. That roller pair has raised four rounds of babies since last summer, and the cock is a great father....feeding any baby that squeaks at it from the loft floor. I put fake eggs under the whites, but am going to remove them this weekend so they lay again.
> 
> When I pick up the new squeakers, I'm going to talk with the seller and see if he might sell me an older male to pair up with my widowed female. With two breeding pairs, my numbers should look a little better.


oh yes, you will have white pigens comming out of your ears in no time..lol.... all those yb's are going to pair up in 4 months or so..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> oh yes, you will have white pigens comming out of your ears in no time..lol.... all those yb's are going to pair up in 4 months or so..


I figured as much, but wanted to make sure I have sufficient stock to weather any losses once I start tossing the birds. The guy I'm getting the new squeakers from sold six, so I will be getting five from him. They won't be ready for another two weeks. He is also selling me one of his 2008 cocks. I am going to pair it up with my widowed hen.

I was also given a pair of white squeakers today by another local flyer. This guy races his whites. He took a second in his combine last year with one of his whites. His fourteen year old daughter flies in a junior division of his club. She sent some whites to a one-loft race last year and took a second place with one of them. He flies his birds, including his whites, out to 630 miles (they get released somewhere in Ohio near Lake Erie).


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Once you have birds that know how to trap new birds will learn from them and trap training would become easier. They just imitate their old bros/sis.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Teddy & Skinny*

By the way, Teddy and Skinny are trapping in with the whites now, so I have just moved them into the pen with the whites. Up until yesterday, the whites would trap in when I called them, and Teddy and Skinny would hang out on the roof of the house. Eventually (around dark) they would return to the coop that I kept them in. I would just leave the door open for them.

The only problem now, is that seventeen birds is a lot to eat from a twenty-four inch feeder. There is a lot of pushing and shoving going on. I think I need to get a thirty inch feeder.

I think I will need to set up my second flight pen with trap and landing board soon. I will be getting some colored marking bands so I can distinguish between my A team and my B team.


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## BSSA (Jun 8, 2011)

Five trained pigeons that do not appear to fly very well have landed on our roof. Two white , one grey, and two browns. they are large and what flight they have take has been hard flap hovering . Sacramento CA. (916 459 7417 brian.). I do not own pigeons or know anything about them. But recognize these are not wild birds, they group together and one is the boss of the others. And they are beautiful. I have pics, but came here to see if I could get them home.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

BSSA said:


> Five trained pigeons that do not appear to fly very well have landed on our roof. Two white , one grey, and two browns. they are large and what flight they have take has been hard flap hovering . Sacramento CA. (916 459 7417 brian.). I do not own pigeons or know anything about them. But recognize these are not wild birds, they group together and one is the boss of the others. And they are beautiful. I have pics, but came here to see if I could get them home.


Hi BSSA. You may want to repost this information in the "I Found a Pigeon or Dove" forum. Click here http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/, and then choose the New Thread button in the upper left side of the page.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I figured as much, but wanted to make sure I have sufficient stock to weather any losses once I start tossing the birds. The guy I'm getting the new squeakers from sold six, so I will be getting five from him. They won't be ready for another two weeks. He is also selling me one of his 2008 cocks. I am going to pair it up with my widowed hen.
> 
> I was also given a pair of white squeakers today by another local flyer. This guy races his whites. He took a second in his combine last year with one of his whites. His fourteen year old daughter flies in a junior division of his club. She sent some whites to a one-loft race last year and took a second place with one of them. He flies his birds, including his whites, out to 630 miles (they get released somewhere in Ohio near Lake Erie).


I saw your pictures of the whites you have out now.. I thought they were nice looking birds.. wish I had someone with whites near me..seems Iam the only one around here with in 50 miles.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I saw your pictures of the whites you have out now.. I thought they were nice looking birds.. wish I had someone with whites near me..seems Iam the only one around here with in 50 miles.


That's good if you want to do white bird releases! 

Since I started flying pigeons last year, I have found that there are dozens of lofts within about 25 miles of me. There are six racing pigeon clubs within 50 miles. Kind of makes me want to race! I'm just not excited about dropping a grand for a clock!


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## BSSA (Jun 8, 2011)

*They left*



ptras said:


> Hi BSSA. You may want to repost this information in the "I Found a Pigeon or Dove" forum. Click here http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/, and then choose the New Thread button in the upper left side of the page.


They flew away I guess, They did not respond to sunflower seeds and I checked an hour later they were gone.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

BSSA said:


> Five trained pigeons that do not appear to fly very well have landed on our roof. Two white , one grey, and two browns. they are large and what flight they have take has been hard flap hovering . Sacramento CA. (916 459 7417 brian.). I do not own pigeons or know anything about them. But recognize these are not wild birds, they group together and one is the boss of the others. And they are beautiful. I have pics, but came here to see if I could get them home.


I would not worry about it. They have group protection. They probably just momentarily lost unless they come back to your place, then most likely they are lost and need help.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #3?*

Tomorrow will be three weeks that they have been flying. No losses so far! They are let out every afternoon around 4:00, and they fly until around 6:30. At that time, they trap in immediately. They probably spend about half of their time out flying, and the rest of the time roosting on the roof of my house. Every now and then, if I feel they have been sitting too long, I will throw a tennis ball on the roof and they will all take off and fly. They do an excellent job kitting. I have never been able to get my rollers to kit quite as well as these homers do.

They are routing sometimes, but not on a regular basis. Usually, when they are first let out, they will take off out of sight for ten to fifteen minutes. Most times, Skinny & Teddy prefer to stay nearby, but sometimes will route with the flock. I'm not worried, as S & T have only been flying with the whites for about a week now. I figure they'll get more adventurous as they get more comfortable outside. After all, they are year-old birds that flew for the first time two weeks ago.

Tomorrow morning, I am picking up a new breeder cock to pair with my widowed hen. I am also buying an additional five squeakers form him, but they won't be ready for another two weeks. Once I get the new squeakers, I will start trap training them in a separate flying pen in my loft. I will train them with the two other squeakers I picked up this week. I figure that after they are loft flying for a week or two, I can move some of the current whites to that pen with them. That will give me two flying teams of eleven birds. I expect I will need a few more birds on each team to cushion me against any losses.

Once the two teams are both flying, I expect that I will alternate days with them flying. I think that if I fly them together, they won't necessarily trap in to the correct pen. I have started construction of a twenty-bird training basket. As soon as I finish, I will start putting them in the basket for a little time each day so they can get used to it.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If your pigeon can fly for 1 hour(non-stop) it is a good sign. If they can fly for 2 hours it is excellent.

You are doing excellent. They will not range/route often. They would prefer just loft flying, going circles.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

and.. it does not matter how they get their excersize.. if they are in shape.. that is what your looking for.. reguardless if it is by road or loft..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #4*



RodSD said:


> If your pigeon can fly for 1 hour(non-stop) it is a good sign. If they can fly for 2 hours it is excellent.
> 
> You are doing excellent. They will not range/route often. They would prefer just loft flying, going circles.


They don't usually fly that long non-stop. The usual routine is for them to fly circles around the yard (or occasionally route) for the first fifteen to twenty minutes after they are let out. Then they will usually sit on the roof of the house. I throw a tennis ball up to scare them off the roof, and they will fly for another fifteen or twenty minutes before settling again. Three or four times of this, and it is time to trap in. Today's flying was a little different.

Yesterday, my next-door neighbor cut down sixteen trees between us in preparation for putting in a pool (I didn't mind, because the trees shaded my pool in the afternoon too). Eight of the twelve trees were eighty+ foot White Pine trees. The remaining were forty to fifty foot Oak trees.

I'm not sure if it was because of all the additional open space, or because the birds are becoming stronger and more confident - today when I released them, they flew for over an hour without a break. During that time, they were mostly circling the back yard and through the neighbor's back yard, but they also ranged out of sight a number of times. Each time, they were back within a few minutes.

A few times, as they circled past the house, one or more birds broke off and landed on the roof. Each time that happened, when the flock made the next circuit, the ones on the roof joined them. I'm impressed with how well they are kitting when they fly. Most of the time while flying, the seventeen birds are within ten feet of each other. It is certainly impressive to see seventeen white birds circling together in such tight formation! Most of my neighbors have stopped by over the past few weeks to watch the birds fly.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #5*

I will be picking up the five new squeakers this Saturday. I will start their trap training immediately, and hope to have them loft flying within a week.

I'm about ready to start road training the other birds. They have been successfully loft flying, and routing (sometimes) for five weeks. My (most recent) question is about Skinny & Teddy (S&T). If you have been following this thread, you will know that S&T are a pair of homerXtippler crosses that were given to my son. After sitting for over a year in their own little coop, we started loft flying them with the whites. They now share loft space with the whites. They have been loft flying and trapping in with the whites on a daily basis for about two weeks.

When are start road training the whites, should I include S&T? Do you think that being half homer will give them sufficient homing ability to make it back home if separated from the flock? I personally wouldn't be *too *upset if they found a new place to live, but my son probably wouldn't take it too well.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

they may not make it back... but I guess if you want to risk it you would find out.. the only thing I would be worred about is when they find a mate out of your white birds.. you may not want that to happen if your looking to breed next year.. you may want all the pairs you can get..to breed more homers.. I do not think you would want to mix the tippler blood in there... ?


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

I think if you really want them to stay around for your son you wouldnt take them on any of your tosses but it sounds to me like you wouldnt mind losing them  and from wat I have read I think you said they are a pair so I doubt you would have to worry about them breeding with your other homers so I think keeping them together should be ok . I keep tipplers with homers and have yet to have a cross breed in the bunch but I also have a satinette in there and he has crossed with a couple of my tipplers , very easy to spot when that happens since all his kids have the shorter beak and feathered feet .lol


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Your birds are flying longer because their muscles are developing good. So basically they are being conditioned.

With respect to S&T I would like to know why you want to toss them as well? Do you want to test their homing ability? Tipplers are known to have good stamina. I am not too sure about their homing ability, but some people toss them as well and they come back. I don't have enough data to conclude about that. I suppose it depends on what goal you are trying to accomplish.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #6*

I have been loft flying the birds for six weeks now. So far I have had really good luck with the birds. I have been flying seventeen birds, and have only lost two. The two that were lost were on a day that my son released the birds at 11:00 in the morning instead of their usual 4:00-4:30 release time. They were out until 6:30pm, and only fifteen returned when I whistled them in. That was two weeks ago, and no losses since despite daily flying. Most days they only fly for about an hour all told, sitting on the house roof or the loft roof in between. A couple times a week, they will route out of sight of the yard for fifteen to twenty minutes at a time. Today when I flew the birds, they routed for a good forty-five minutes...completely out of sight, and making me real nervous. However, they all returned in a flock and went right in when I whistled.

Tomorrow I will be starting road training. I have a training basket that is a perfect fit on my landing board. I will put the training basket on the landing board in place of the training cage, and will shoo the birds into the training basket at their regular flight time. The first drop will be from my front yard. It is about 250 feet from the loft, and an area that they have flown over many times. The next day (Saturday), I will take them out of sight of the loft for a drop of about 1/2 mile. I'll keep everyone posted as to the results.

I will be flying thirteen birds, as I have moved Teddy & Skinny over to the other side as "trap-training aids" for my five new birds. I'm not sure I should drop T&S anyway, as they are 1/2 homer, and 1/2 Tippler. Although they flew with the flock most of the time, they had a bad habit of roosting in trees 150 feet behind the loft in my backyard. Sometimes some of the whites would follow them and roost in the trees also. (Particularly one hen that seemed to take a fancy to Skinny.)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sounds like all is going good!.. road training is going to be fun..and nerve wracking..lol.. they are just so cool when they fly home.. I esp like doing it early on a sat morning and get home fill a coffee cup and wait for them to come in.. it is nice.. the waiting will be when they are further out.. depending on how far you go they sometimes beat you home..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> sounds like all is going good!.. road training is going to be fun..and nerve wracking..lol.. they are just so cool when they fly home.. I esp like doing it early on a sat morning and get home fill a coffee cup and wait for them to come in.. it is nice.. the waiting will be when they are further out.. depending on how far you go they sometimes beat you home..


I expect that (depending on how it goes!) I will train them out to 50 miles north, 35 miles south, and 50 miles west. The farthest I can train them east is four miles before I hit ocean. I think that once I have them trained, their regular exercise is going to be dropping them at my work (about 35 miles southwest) and letting them come home. Will it be okay to bring them to work in the training cage and release them around 2:00 in the afternoon? That would get them home around the time my son gets off the bus in the afternoon. They would be in the training cage for about six to seven hours if I do that. I could release them earlier during the summer, as he would be home. How long do I have to keep releasing them before their once-daily feeding, before I can release them in the morning?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I expect that (depending on how it goes!) I will train them out to 50 miles north, 35 miles south, and 50 miles west. The farthest I can train them east is four miles before I hit ocean. I think that once I have them trained, their regular exercise is going to be dropping them at my work (about 35 miles southwest) and letting them come home. Will it be okay to bring them to work in the training cage and release them around 2:00 in the afternoon? That would get them home around the time my son gets off the bus in the afternoon. They would be in the training cage for about six to seven hours if I do that. I could release them earlier during the summer, as he would be home. How long do I have to keep releasing them before their once-daily feeding, before I can release them in the morning?


I wouldn not keep birds crated for that long..you may get some bloody fights from the stress.. if you had a crate with seperate compartments like the show crates they can be in those a few hours because they can not see each other, but perhaps not for 7 hours.. I would let them loose as soon as you get to work..your son will just have to wait and see it on a weekend or during breaks..the birds health is more important IMO..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #7*

Yesterday I loaded the birds into the training crate, and took them up to my driveway near the street. It is approximately 250 feet from the loft, and in sight of the area that they usually fly in. When I released them, they stood around looking confused for about fifteen seconds, and then all flew in a flock towards the backyard and loft. They circled a few times, and then landed on the house the way they usually do. I whistled them in an hour later, and they all trapped in immediately.

Today, I crated them, put them in the back of the SUV, and drove down the road to a little pond. It is around 3/4 mile from my house. I released them towards the open area around the pond, and the flew up and started circling in a flock. Then, just to make me nervous, they all headed due south, which is the opposite direction from my house. I watched until they were out of sight, got back in the car and headed home. When I got home, all thirteen birds were sitting on the roof of my house. Yay!  I whistled them in about a half hour later and they all trapped immediately.

Now a question...tomorrow, should I release them at the same point again, or can I take them further?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

A GOOD day
Had a White Delbar that I gave away 2-3 years ago to come back today.
Its a 2004 bird.
I don't have a record who I gave it to.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> A GOOD day
> Had a White Delbar that I gave away 2-3 years ago to come back today.
> Its a 2004 bird.
> I don't have a record who I gave it to.


Very cool. Want to ship it to me and see if it can find Texas from Massachusetts?


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

sky tx said:


> A GOOD day
> Had a White Delbar that I gave away 2-3 years ago to come back today.
> Its a 2004 bird.
> I don't have a record who I gave it to.


Awesome,
Im glad it is safe now.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

both stories very cool.. not sure if should release again from that spot...prolly would not hurt.. your moving on great!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #8*

The birds scared the $h1t out of me again. About five this afternoon, I crated thirteen birds and took them to the same spot as yesterday. I released them, and this time they all took off directly in the direction of my house. I loaded the crate in the car and drove home, and when I got there, there were six birds on the loft roof. There was no sign of the other seven birds. After about a half hour, I put down the feed tray and whistled them in. Those six trapped immediately, but there was still no sign of the remaining seven.

I went up and had dinner (smoked pork loin...it was smoking since 1:00 this afternoon!). After dinner, I went out to the pool with my son, and as I was sitting beside the pool, a Coopers Hawk flew overhead. This is the first time I have seen a coopers in this area. I assume that the resident redtail hawk used to keep coopers at bay. The redtail has been chased away by a pair of crows that nested in a nearby tree, so I guess the coopers felt that it was a clear snacking station for him. As I sat there for about a half hour, the coopers hawk made a few circuits of the area, and roosted in a pine tree for a while. Then he flew off into the sunset. (I must say, that despite my concerns about hawks, that coopers hawk was a beautiful bird as it was flying away silhouetted against the sky!) I went back to the house thinking that I had lost half of my flying stock.

About a half hour later (1 1/2 hours after the release), the remaining seven birds flew into the backyard, and landed on the loft roof. They all trapped in safely, giving no indication where they had been for the previous hour and a half. Mr Coopers didn't get any of my birds!  Despite the heart-pounding moments I had today, I plan to release the birds tomorrow. I will toss them from my kids' school, which is about 1 1/2 miles from my house in the opposite direction. I will provide an update after that toss.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

My mentor has a resident hawk in his area, if the birds come home and see the hawk sitting out they will leave and keep coming back to check until hes gone, then they trap like rockets, but thats old birds that are familar with the hawks.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> The birds scared the $h1t out of me again. About five this afternoon, I crated thirteen birds and took them to the same spot as yesterday. I released them, and this time they all took off directly in the direction of my house. I loaded the crate in the car and drove home, and when I got there, there were six birds on the loft roof. There was no sign of the other seven birds. After about a half hour, I put down the feed tray and whistled them in. Those six trapped immediately, but there was still no sign of the remaining seven.
> 
> I went up and had dinner (smoked pork loin...it was smoking since 1:00 this afternoon!). After dinner, I went out to the pool with my son, and as I was sitting beside the pool, a Coopers Hawk flew overhead. This is the first time I have seen a coopers in this area. I assume that the resident redtail hawk used to keep coopers at bay. The redtail has been chased away by a pair of crows that nested in a nearby tree, so I guess the coopers felt that it was a clear snacking station for him. As I sat there for about a half hour, the coopers hawk made a few circuits of the area, and roosted in a pine tree for a while. Then he flew off into the sunset. (I must say, that despite my concerns about hawks, that coopers hawk was a beautiful bird as it was flying away silhouetted against the sky!) I went back to the house thinking that I had lost half of my flying stock.
> 
> About a half hour later (1 1/2 hours after the release), the remaining seven birds flew into the backyard, and landed on the loft roof. They all trapped in safely, giving no indication where they had been for the previous hour and a half. Mr Coopers didn't get any of my birds!  Despite the heart-pounding moments I had today, I plan to release the birds tomorrow. I will toss them from my kids' school, which is about 1 1/2 miles from my house in the opposite direction. I will provide an update after that toss.


yeah, things like this will happen.. they know if there is danger about, so it will not go like clock work everytime.. nature has a way of being non perfect for us..lol.. the good thing is is your birds were being savvy to the hawk and they did the right thing..he could of tried to get one while they were landing in.. that is usually when they strike.. you can save a bird though if they do..they can only go after one bird at a time.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> yeah, things like this will happen.. they know if there is danger about, so it will not go like clock work everytime.. nature has a way of being non perfect for us..lol.. the good thing is is your birds were being savvy to the hawk and they did the right thing..he could of tried to get one while they were landing in.. that is usually when they strike.. you can save a bird though if they do..they can only go after one bird at a time.


I'm wondering if the coopers usually lives and hunts down by the pond. Seems it would be good hunting grounds for him, and when he took off from my yard, that is the direction he headed. Anyway, I won't be releasing at the pond any more. Going to the school this afternoon, then will jump out to five miles tomorrow.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #9*

I released the birds today from my kids' school about 1.5 miles from the house. After I released them, we drove home, and the birds were nowhere to be seen. Fortunately, there was no coopers hawk to be seen either! I took the kids in the pool, and about half an hour later, a neighbor came across the street. She asked why she didn't see the birds out flying. I explained that I had tossed them from the school, and she asked "When will they be back?" I replied that hopefully they would be back shortly. As if that was a cue, they all came flying into the backyard. They circled twice, and trapped in. Thirteen birds tossed, thirteen birds returned.

Tomorrow, I will toss them at the school again, and the next day will toss them from the center of town, which is about five miles away. I'll keep you all updated as to the progress.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #9 (continued)*

I released them from the school again (from the opposite side), and they arrived home at about the same time I did. All thirteen trapped in immediately. My plan is to release them next at five miles. Does that sound like a reasonable distance after two 1.5 mile tosses?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #10*

Thursday and Friday evening, I brought the birds to the center of town and released them. I had estimated that it was about five miles, but when I checked on Google Maps Distance Calculator (GMDC) http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm, it turns out that it is just a little over three miles. On Thursday, they must have done a little ranging, because it took them almost forty minutes to get home. When they arrived, they were all in a close-knit flock. They circled the backyard once and trapped immediately. Tonight, it took them about five to ten minutes according to my wife (I tossed them from the back parking lot of a school, and then brought my son to his basketball game).

Now I'm ready to bring them out for a *real *toss! We are going hiking tomorrow in the Blue Hills (a local park). I checked the distance in GMDC, and it is slightly over twenty miles. Is this a reasonable jump from three miles, or should I toss them at ten miles first?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #10 (continued)*



ptras said:


> Thursday and Friday evening, I brought the birds to the center of town and released them. I had estimated that it was about five miles, but when I checked on Google Maps Distance Calculator (GMDC) http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm, it turns out that it is just a little over three miles. On Thursday, they must have done a little ranging, because it took them almost forty minutes to get home. When they arrived, they were all in a close-knit flock. They circled the backyard once and trapped immediately. Tonight, it took them about five to ten minutes according to my wife (I tossed them from the back parking lot of a school, and then brought my son to his basketball game).
> 
> Now I'm ready to bring them out for a *real *toss! We are going hiking tomorrow in the Blue Hills (a local park). I checked the distance in GMDC, and it is slightly over twenty miles. Is this a reasonable jump from three miles, or should I toss them at ten miles first?


I think I made a mistake. I tossed the birds from about nine miles this evening. The mistake was that it wasn't until about 7:55pm. As of dusk (around 8:30pm), none of the birds had returned. At 10:30pm (now) they still haven't returned. I can only hope that they found a safe roosting place for the night, and they will show up tomorrow morning.

*As of 8:30 this morning, seven of the birds are back in the loft, and six birds are nowhere to be seen.*


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update #11 - The saga of Teddy & Skinny*

Any of you who may have been following my training may remember that I have been flying a pair of Tippler X Homer crosses with my white birds. These are birds that were given to my son last summer. My son (ten years old) was very excited about flying Teddy & Skinny with the homers, but wanted a guarantee from me that they would return. I told him that there were no guarantees with any of the birds. After I had flown the homers out to three miles a couple of times, he decided it was okay for T&S to join them. I started tossing T&S along with the homers first at three miles, then a couple times at five miles. Three weeks ago, I tossed them all at ten miles, and T&S failed to return, along with three of my whites. The next morning, two of the three whites returned along with Skinny, but no Teddy. My son didn't mind, as there is a feral flock near where we released them, and he figured Teddy joined the feral flock.

Fast forward a little bit...Last Thursday, we brought thirteen birds, including Skinny, to my Mom's house to release them. It is only about fourteen miles, but it is the first time they were released north of the loft. Most other releases were from south or west of the loft, with a couple being east about five miles (as far as we can go east without a boat!) We released the birds around 1:00 in the afternoon, and then spent a few hours visiting with Grammy Joan. When we got home around 4:00, there wasn't a bird in sight. Around 5:00, six birds showed up in a flock and trapped in. Over the next hour, four more birds trapped in. No sign of Skinny or the two remaining whites. The next morning, one more white trapped in, but no sign of the last white or Skinny. When they hadn't returned by Friday evening, I figured they were gone for good. My son figured that Skinny must have joined a feral flock, so wasn't upset by it.

Fast forward some more...today when I got home from work, my wife asked me if I had a bird that didn't return when I loft flew them yesterday evening. I told her that I didn't and asked why. She told me that a pigeon had been flying circles around the backyard on and off for most of the day. I went down to the loft, and you'll never believe who was standing on top of the landing cage...Skinny!  He had returned to the loft after being away for eight days! He looked pretty good - fat and happy. He must have found a source of food somewhere. I loft flew the birds, and Skinny flew along with the whites as if he had never been gone. When I called them in, he trapped in with them.

So, my son is out of his mind with happiness. I don't think I will release Skinny with the homers any more. Seems like every time he was tossed with them, he would not return until the next morning. Most times, one or more white bird would stay out with him, and I didn't always get the whites back. I don't know if they were being "designated flyers" with him, but I don't want to keep losing whites and getting the mutt bird back!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update # 12 - The saga of Teddy & Skinny...continued*

I can't believe what happened today. I took fifteen birds to the center of town to release them at our local Farmer's Market around noon. I released them, and two of the youngest additions to the team hung back in the basket for a little bit before flying. When they flew, all of the other birds had circled twice and taken off for home. They circled a couple times together, and decided it would be best for them to settle on the roof of a nearby building. They did, and they sat there. The kids and I walked around the Farmer's Market, and then went to the library. When we got out a half hour later, the two birds were still sitting on the roof and it looked like they were in it for the long haul. We packed up the car and headed home.

When we got home, there were fourteen birds sitting on the roof of the house. (I hadn't unlocked the trap, because it was only a four mile toss, and I figured they would do some routing.) I was confused by there being fourteen birds on the roof, when I knew that two were back on the roof of the Pembroke Historical Society. I opened the trap and whistled them in, and all fourteen birds trapped in immediately. I inspected them, and realized that the fourteenth bird wasn't a white, so I grabbed him to get a closer look. You'll never believe who it was...Teddy! 

If you read the prior post, you'll see that Teddy never returned from a ten mile toss back in the last week of July. Here we are six weeks later, and he trapped in with the rest of the birds as if he had never been gone! He looks a little thin, but other than that all is good. When I loft-flew the birds later today, Teddy never even poked his head out of the loft. He is happy to be home, and my son is out of his mind over it! He now has Teddy & Skinny back, and he refers to them as the miracle birds.

Regarding the two young birds...I loaded six of my older birds into the crate, grabbed a couple tennis balls, and headed back to the center of town. When I arrived, the two young birds were sitting on the roof of the Historical Society, fat and happy, as if that's where they had always lived. I threw the tennis balls up and scared them off into flight. As soon as they were airborne, I released the six "senior" birds. Sure enough, as soon as those young birds saw the other six flying, they dove right down and joined them. The eight birds circled twice, and took off in the direction of home. When I got home five minutes later, they were sitting on the loft roof waiting for me. I had no idea if that method would work, but I thought I would give it a try. I'm glad I did.


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## Chepe1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Do you now a club on Cincinnati Ohio. Or Ohio. Can you help me fine One and a buy pigeons tank you


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## VegasWhiteHomers (Feb 13, 2013)

Ok, new here but read this thread with fascination... PTRAS, any updates? Looks like you went thru exactly what I will be doing over the next few months. I hate to see the thread totally dead...


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

VegasWhiteHomers said:


> Ok, new here but read this thread with fascination... PTRAS, any updates? Looks like you went thru exactly what I will be doing over the next few months. I hate to see the thread totally dead...


I have now divested of the White Homers. I still keep twelve birds (all the colored ones that my kids had named). I found that I didn't have time to keep up with training, and market the business with the demands of my regular job. The remaining twelve birds get out to loft fly in the summertime, but are kept in during the winter due to the prevalence of hawks. In the spring, I will probably bring them out for some short flights.


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## CarloSantoro (Jun 22, 2011)

what an awesome story glad they returned home healthy. do you have any pictures of your loft and birds.


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## njhntr (Jun 5, 2012)

Unwrriten rule, if you dont want to loose a bird , dont let them out.
At 8 weeks my birds are 5 miles twice, then 10 twice at four months 100 miles and so on till 400 not trying any farther now
good luck


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