# World Ace Challenge



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

http://theloftreport.com/open-letter-about-world-ace-challenge-one-loft-race/

Has any one red this is it true.
Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> http://theloftreport.com/open-letter-about-world-ace-challenge-one-loft-race/
> 
> Has any one red this is it true.
> Dave


 VERY good question............


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If the WAC race is crooked just how do you find an OLR that isn't, when entering these races it's all about trust.
Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I have thought about entering them for years. I am not the trusting type
It would be so easy to mess with them.MONEY, MONEY, Ect.


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

I had hoped to move into one loft racing, I have to question my thinking if this is an example of the kind of shenanigans that go on. 


Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If this is true. That would be a set back for the racing world. I am sure the AU will have to check this also. Hope it not true But it could be.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

It seems that this is accurate? The FBI has supposedly been informed and involved now?
This not only exposes this race as a sham, but the situation cast a bad light on the whole One-Loft Race concept and the racing pigeon hobby and community.
The reality is that when big money is involved bad things sometimes happen. If a person wishes to test their birds in a One-Loft series it is imperative that you do your homework related to those sponsoring it. I believe that in 2015 I will enter races where I personally know some of the people involved.
With limited expense gold band and futurity races it is a different situation in my opinion.
If there is little money in entry and perch fees you don't stand to lose much?


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

This makes me think that Futurities are the way to go!


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## Formidable1 (Jan 30, 2012)

orock said:


> This makes me think that Futurities are the way to go!


Not really. Some handlers pick and choose which loft they like to handle.They would rather handle a ganus bird then a nobody.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Also heard there were some issues going on with the GHC after their race as well?


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## jboy1 (Jan 26, 2005)

This could be the case of a bad driver, hold Judgement until the rest comes out.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

If sending birds out to a Convention race,or Bond Race etc,it is good to know your handler...Just like sending birds out to our PT members to race for you in some special race....You know they will take care of your pigeons....One loft races,I have a little doubt in my mind what goes on....This wouldn`t be considered down right cheating,but keep all the big named guys birds in one or two sections would bother me big time....They could get the extra care/feed/med`s and even training,that your birds will not be getting....And even though you might have the best pigeon,he/she will not beat the big time guys birds,who are getting all the best care possible...I think sending birds out to races,that your birds and mine are auctioned off,the buyer has an INVESTMENT in our birds,and he will treat them right....That`s why Walter`s LBRA out in Long Island is a great race....I have only sent birds once,and they did very well,compared to the rest of the 600 or so entries.....Will be sending birds again in 2015....I think all here on PT,should send birds in for the 2015 LBRA....Walter will mail you the bands(free)....And you send the babies a couple of days before one of the 3 auction dates...Real Easy....If anyone on this board,has a race as such,let us know...Start your thread in January....I will,because my combine has one also....Not as big as Walter`s...But I will post the info in 2015 for the race/races...We have two of them.....Alamo


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> If the WAC race is crooked just how do you find an OLR that isn't, when entering these races it's all about trust.
> Dave


You are absolutely correct!!! The only one that I have dealt with that I have no reservations about is Steve Sterchi who runs the Sierra Ranch Classic. I have talked to him periodically and I trust him completely. I do not know the other people who run the OLR, but I am sure there are good & bad, just like everything else in our life. Another which I have heard good things about is the Blue Bucket Stampede, which is ran by Paul Reuter, who is out of Madras, Oregon. Just my two cents worth.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

*Wac Race*

Who is the owner of the race ?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Barry Yu, who lives in McKinney, Texas.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear that ! Is Barry Yu the only one ,who is loft manager ?


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> I have thought about entering them for years. I am not the trusting type
> It would be so easy to mess with them.MONEY, MONEY, Ect.


I'll second that notion . If you think about it , it wouldn't be that hard to fix any race , especially the smaller combines . Now the CJC is a different story , but it could be done at a club level . That being said , you take a chance in any OLR .
In these times of dwindling flyers and not nearly enough new flyers to take the place ,it only hurts the sport , it is a black eye for the pigeon racing community .
Kurps


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Well I was going to send some birds to a one loft race for 2015 for the first time, now I am not sure if I want too, in my opinion I wish we had more races like the South East Open where all the clubs in different states meet in one location and release all the birds together, that's the best test, to better anyone's stock loft.


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## RCB Loft (May 8, 2014)

*Which OLR*

I was going to enter some birds in OLR this year and the happenings at the WAC have me wondering if I am sending my birds to fair and honest races. These are the ones I am thinking about; will only send to 4 races. If you have an opinion on any of them please let me know. 

Shasta Classic
Sierra Classic
Snowbird
Fast Eddies
San Diego Classic
World Series
Spring Break


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

RCB, not on your list is the Blue Bucket Stampede. I am not in it, but I have many friends that are and regard it as one of the best managed races.
Regarding the WAC, they just sent a letter to all entrants stating they were returning the entry monies and birds.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

*WAC and GHC*

Both races have serious problems and smart fancier would stay away from both races.
1. WAC race has to many foreign lofts entered -hard to understand who they are and if they are true or fake loft . They seem to win to much for me.
2. GREAT AMOUNT OF PRAISE TO THE FANCIERS THAT EXPOSED THIS RACE AS A FRAUD. I would not touch this race or any race that is run by the "WAC RACE TEAM" EVER !

The GHC race has a big problem . The people in charge need to expose the problem and throw out all involved regardless of who they are and what position they hold.
Their are a lot of great and honest fanciers in the club , however , they are going to suffer until this is cleaned up. If the officers try to cover this up , they should be removed. I would not touch this race for next couple years. WHAT A SHAME !


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

Yes the WAC was suspected of things for a while but now have been completely exposed. The letter they sent out announcing the cancellation of the final race and apologizing that a couple of the races were "not up to their exacting standards" was almost like a joke. Only driving the truck out 35-40 miles for a 200 and then posting that the birds were let go at 7:00 but really let go in 4 separate groups 10 min apart around 10:45??? Those are some very exacting standards for sure!!!  I hope that race is all but done with now. But I have to hand it them, the letter was written very legally and professionally. Sounds like they were hinting that they are blaming the whole thing on the truck driver, which is ridiculous given that there was corruption in that one all the way to the top. The short release point was not far from the race manager's residence, coincidence? C'mon....

Here's the main paragraph from their letter sent to the participants:

"It is with great sadness that we must announce the cancellation of the final race of the season. Earlier in the season, two of our races were not conducted in accordance with our exacting standards. While we cannot be certain that anyone was unfairly advantaged or disadvantaged as a result of our errors, we at World Ace Challenge believe that action should be taken to address any discrepancy that might call into question the integrity of our competition. For that reason, we are cancelling the final race of the season and refunding all entry fees."

This won't be the end of it for sure.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

*Burn me ONCE,and grab my money and run(your fault)......*
*Burn me TWICE,and grab my money and run,(My Fault)....*
*Don`t let WAC or GHC get your money again...*.....Alamo


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

*World Ace Challenge Team ?*

Can someone tell me who exactly is the "WORLD ACE CHALLENGE TEAM"?
Names !


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Those who were entered in the race need to band together & talk to the U.S. Attorneys office to see if fraud charges can be filed.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

RCB Loft said:


> I was going to enter some birds in OLR this year and the happenings at the WAC have me wondering if I am sending my birds to fair and honest races. These are the ones I am thinking about; will only send to 4 races. If you have an opinion on any of them please let me know.
> 
> Shasta Classic
> Sierra Classic
> ...


I seen video from the Shasta Classic and that race looks okay. Anyone willing to video themselves at the release site and returns shouldn't have anything to hide.

I like the format of the Plymouth Peak Pro Challenge , at $125 per bird or 6 birds for $600 seams like an affordable race . I don't know Brad Hogan but when you put your family's face and name on something I would bet you would want it to succeed , and every race has a payout plus the Champion Bird winner.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

There`s plenty of HONEST OLR`s and Futurities to send your birds to...Just do some homework,and you will be ok....Contact some of the people who are sending birds into the race....Especially a NON-KNOWN name....Which is someone who has good birds,and doesn`t advertise pigeons for sale in books etc.....A regular guy,who keeps sending birds to certain races,is happy with the way the "Team" is treating your pigeons,and everyone else`s....They play by the rule "Fair Play",for all the entries...They don`t care who`s bird wins....They make a few dollars,and everyone is happy with their efforts...
These people will steer you in the right direction....Almost everyone on this board sends a couple of pigeons out to a special race every year...Whether it`s a one loft race,or one of the other`s that have handlers for all the entries....It`s a better deal for a OLR,that takes care of all the birds equally....Getting the best handlers to race your birds IS a problem,if you are not a KNOWN loft....That has always been my gripe with the Convention races etc.....I`m a nobody,so that means my birds are not as good as the guys with the big names...They are correct in a way....But that still doesn`t mean my birds can`t do well with a good handler taking them,and doing his normal duties as a handler.....Pigeons respond to good training,and care....Alamo
PS:
My dad,a long time pigeon flyer,moved here to WVa many years ago...We raced together for a few years before he passed away....When he and my mom moved here,I was very nervous about what he would think about,as to the quality of my pigeons....I was shocked that he thought I had some excellent cock birds,as good or better then what he had in NY.....He liked 3 of my hens,and overall,he thought I had a decent stock loft...Wanted me to get a couple of better hens,to match the quality of my cock birds.....He taught me a valuable lesson...Buy/get the best hens you can get first,then get a VG cock to mate to them....
The cock could be a champion,but without a great hen,as good or better then him,HE is worthless.....Alamo
PSS:
That`s why I purchased the 7th place bird in the IF Convention race this past Saturday....A very strong BCH....


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> There`s plenty of HONEST OLR`s and Futurities to send your birds to...Just do some homework,and you will be ok....Contact some of the people who are sending birds into the race....Especially a NON-KNOWN name....Which is someone who has good birds,and doesn`t advertise pigeons for sale in books etc.....A regular guy,who keeps sending birds to certain races,is happy with the way the "Team" is treating your pigeons,and everyone else`s....They play by the rule "Fair Play",for all the entries...They don`t care who`s bird wins....They make a few dollars,and everyone is happy with their efforts...
> These people will steer you in the right direction....Almost everyone on this board sends a couple of pigeons out to a special race every year...Whether it`s a one loft race,or one of the other`s that have handlers for all the entries....It`s a better deal for a OLR,that takes care of all the birds equally....Getting the best handlers to race your birds IS a problem,if you are not a KNOWN loft....That has always been my gripe with the Convention races etc.....I`m a nobody,so that means my birds are not as good as the guys with the big names...They are correct in a way....But that still doesn`t mean my birds can`t do well with a good handler taking them,and doing his normal duties as a handler.....Pigeons respond to good training,and care....Alamo
> PS:
> My dad,a long time pigeon flyer,moved here to WVa many years ago...We raced together for a few years before he passed away....When he and my mom moved here,I was very nervous about what he would think about,as to the quality of my pigeons....I was shocked that he thought I had some excellent cock birds,as good or better then what he had in NY.....He liked 3 of my hens,and overall,he thought I had a decent stock loft...Wanted me to get a couple of better hens,to match the quality of my cock birds.....He taught me a valuable lesson...Buy/get the best hens you can get first,then get a VG cock to mate to them....
> The cock could be a champion,but without a great hen,as good or better then him,HE is worthless.....Alamo


Well said, and good advice....... from you and your Dad.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> There`s plenty of HONEST OLR`s and Futurities to send your birds to...Just do some homework,and you will be ok....Contact some of the people who are sending birds into the race....Especially a NON-KNOWN name....Which is someone who has good birds,and doesn`t advertise pigeons for sale in books etc.....A regular guy,who keeps sending birds to certain races,is happy with the way the "Team" is treating your pigeons,and everyone else`s....They play by the rule "Fair Play",for all the entries...They don`t care who`s bird wins....They make a few dollars,and everyone is happy with their efforts...
> These people will steer you in the right direction....Almost everyone on this board sends a couple of pigeons out to a special race every year...Whether it`s a one loft race,or one of the other`s that have handlers for all the entries....It`s a better deal for a OLR,that takes care of all the birds equally....Getting the best handlers to race your birds IS a problem,if you are not a KNOWN loft....That has always been my gripe with the Convention races etc.....I`m a nobody,so that means my birds are not as good as the guys with the big names...They are correct in a way....But that still doesn`t mean my birds can`t do well with a good handler taking them,and doing his normal duties as a handler.....Pigeons respond to good training,and care....Alamo
> PS:
> My dad,a long time pigeon flyer,moved here to WVa many years ago...We raced together for a few years before he passed away....When he and my mom moved here,I was very nervous about what he would think about,as to the quality of my pigeons....I was shocked that he thought I had some excellent cock birds,as good or better then what he had in NY.....He liked 3 of my hens,and overall,he thought I had a decent stock loft...Wanted me to get a couple of better hens,to match the quality of my cock birds.....He taught me a valuable lesson...Buy/get the best hens you can get first,then get a VG cock to mate to them....
> The cock could be a champion,but without a great hen,as good or better then him,HE is worthless.....Alamo


Well said, and good advice....... from you and your Dad.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

ERIC K said:


> I like the format of the Plymouth Peak Pro Challenge , at $125 per bird or 6 birds for $600 seams like an affordable race . I don't know Brad Hogan but when you put your family's face and name on something I would bet you would want it to succeed , and every race has a payout plus the Champion Bird winner.


I'm sure you know this, but the 600 for six birds is a perch fee and the race fee is 300 bucks per bird on top of it.


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## Airbaby (Aug 9, 2008)

*Pigeon releases*

In my opinion i feel ANY pigeon race release should have more security measures in place to lower the chances of things like this from happening. I know the AU has a suggestion in the rules to atleast 2 members from 2 different lofts to transport the birds but its only a suggestion. My club is small and everybody works so we normally only have one person available to take the birds. 
I dont like it but I dont have a solution for it, only a complaint. Does anyone know of any technology availalbe that could be hooked up to Racing crates/trailors that would be albe to keep GPS tracking/time/date ect. and if it could also record when the crates were opened for the release. I know there are alarms/sensors made for other things that whenever they are activated like by a window opening or a door being opened a message is sent to a annunciator of some kind logging the activity of the alarm/sensor being activated. Much like a alarm system on a house or buisness.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

AIRBABY......With a GPS attached to the pigeon hauler,locked up so the driver cannot get to it,should be good enough to deter any pigeon hauler to go off to where ever he would like....The GPS readings would be verified by a club/combine officer,to make sure the pigeons got to the release point for the correct race.....If there is a GPS out there available to be purchased,that would send this info "real time",that`s what we should all have....I`m not to concerned with non $$ races...But we have Auction races here in my combine,and in a race such as these,I would like to know that the truck is in Cincy,Ohio,and not somewhere else...It`s to easy for the hauler to be 50/100 miles away,in another location,that can/could benefit a good buddy,so that he wins all the money !!!


PS:Birds liberated at a shorter location,without knowing it happened:
#1 giveaway to me would be a big increase in YPM`s....Because the birds are getting credit for more miles,then what they are really flying....But,as bad as this may seem,it still is a "Legal" race,because the birds are being released at the same time....Not like what happened in this OLR.....The word legal in my above sentence pertain`s to every bird has a fair chance to win,even thought the birds are at the wrong release point.....Alamo


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

There is a local race here where they had a bond race and an auction race. They had a driver who also had a race for a Jersey Club on his truck and the club didn't send an liberator like my club does for this particular race. Well the birds from the Jersey race were supposed to be at a station 25 miles past ours but somehow our birds went up a half hour after theirs there's no way he could have got from one station to the other and set up for a release in 30 mins. Well the races turned out messed up the Jersey race made good time but our birds were about a half hour slower then they should have been. The birds were making 1300ypm on a good blow home day where they normally would make 1600ypm like the Jersey birds. In that particular race I'm one of the shorter guys normally I'm in the middle but on that day I had the best short birds in both races but the long enders killed me since they were picking up 15 to 20 seconds a mile the way the race ended up. The story the driver says is that the birds hung for a half hour. So the auction birds hang for a half hour then he let the bond birds go while they were still there then the bond birds hung for a half hour. Just makes no sense we all think since we don't have proof that he let all 3 races up at the longer station. I ended up 5th in that auction race and 24th in the bond race vs over 300 birds not bad when your flying against 40 guys most of which were 30 miles past me that were gaining 15 to 20 seconds a mile. The bird that was 24th was 3rd in the LBRA the week before.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The AU does have rules that 2 members from different clubs be at the release, but that is only for AU sanctioned races. Tha AU or the IF have nothing to do with OLR's they are there own race and not sanctioned by either.
Dave


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Our hotshot driver takes his Iphone and Videos the release of the birds the phone has the time and date when he sends the video to you but does not have the release point but he can also take a picture of the GPS and send it also, to me that would work with no problems.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Lovelace said:


> Our hotshot driver takes his Iphone and Videos the release of the birds the phone has the time and date when he sends the video to you but does not have the release point but he can also take a picture of the GPS and send it also, to me that would work with no problems.


Yes to that ^^ iPhones have the ability to GPS tag photos and videos. You can also use the Compass app or Google Maps app to pinpoint your current location and take a screen shot of that. the screen shots would have time stamps, etc., although those are a little more difficult to dig through and find.


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## Airbaby (Aug 9, 2008)

I would like to see something that would not only cover making sure the birds are released where they are suppose to be but a rule of some kind to help prevent bird tampering or bird theft from the racing crate. This is part of my reason for suggesting they will try to create some technology to be placed on the crate to monitor when they are opened/closed and where at during shipping to races. IMO I have not seen anything in place to help prevent a lone driver from removing birds from the racing crate. Your Champion bird could easily become someone elses breeder and all you will know is your bird never returned from the race. I vote for alot more security for the birds being shipped to race during transport. I feel with the findings from the P.I with the World Ace Challenge only proves something needs to be done now and not later.


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## Airbaby (Aug 9, 2008)

*Liberation*



Pigeon0446 said:


> There is a local race here where they had a bond race and an auction race. They had a driver who also had a race for a Jersey Club on his truck and the club didn't send an liberator like my club does for this particular race. Well the birds from the Jersey race were supposed to be at a station 25 miles past ours but somehow our birds went up a half hour after theirs there's no way he could have got from one station to the other and set up for a release in 30 mins. Well the races turned out messed up the Jersey race made good time but our birds were about a half hour slower then they should have been. The birds were making 1300ypm on a good blow home day where they normally would make 1600ypm like the Jersey birds. In that particular race I'm one of the shorter guys normally I'm in the middle but on that day I had the best short birds in both races but the long enders killed me since they were picking up 15 to 20 seconds a mile the way the race ended up. The story the driver says is that the birds hung for a half hour. So the auction birds hang for a half hour then he let the bond birds go while they were still there then the bond birds hung for a half hour. Just makes no sense we all think since we don't have proof that he let all 3 races up at the longer station. I ended up 5th in that auction race and 24th in the bond race vs over 300 birds not bad when your flying against 40 guys most of which were 30 miles past me that were gaining 15 to 20 seconds a mile. The bird that was 24th was 3rd in the LBRA the week before.


Hey if they can do real time clocking now on the internet why wouldnt they be albe to real time releases too! I know it would be another cost probably passed on to the club members but I know for me it would be one less thing for me to consider when I go over all the possibilities why my birds never came home. The transparency would protect everybody to include the driver/liberator.


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## Hill Top (Dec 5, 2014)

*Olr*

I think OLR are great but I always enter in races where the integrity of the person is a know quantity. Rick and Steve Mardis run very good OLR their honesty is know all over the world. When you think about it people who sell pigeons for a living are under a lot of pressure to make sure everything is above board as a bad rep can ruin a life time of work it takes to build a business like CBS.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Airbaby said:


> Hey if they can do real time clocking now on the internet why wouldnt they be albe to real time releases too! I know it would be another cost probably passed on to the club members but I know for me it would be one less thing for me to consider when I go over all the possibilities why my birds never came home. The transparency would protect everybody to include the driver/liberator.


The east course combine in southern california has been using a gps tracking unit permanetly attached to the trailer for years now. you can go on line and watch every movement of the trailer. where its going and how fast, it also allows for exact location of release point. this system is about as real time as you can get unless you want video of the release as well as the above. kind of overkill to go to that extrem but i wouldnt be opposed to it.


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## Hill Top (Dec 5, 2014)

*Gps*

I think we're probly going to see most if not all OLR go to GPS trackers it's just too easy to do and cost less than 300 bucks to show everyone your honest.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hill Top said:


> I think we're probly going to see most if not all OLR go to GPS trackers it's just too easy to do and cost less than 300 bucks to show everyone your honest.


true enough Mark Rozwadowski who runs the california late hatch classic http://www.latehatchclassic.com/index.htm in southern california already has one attached to his trailer and plans on using it during the actual races so anyone can do exactly that, see that the release is being done from actual race location as listed for the competition.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...eam.net/&nm=25&is=517x609&nx=53&ny=5&clkt=187

For only $18 a month


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