# My hands have been insulted.



## Amaiko (May 2, 2011)

So I have been trying to tame Oliver, my ringneck dove. I let him out of the cage to free-roam the room multiple times a week in hopes that he'll get used to me, and we've been making quite a bit of progress. He is still rather skittish around me, but seems to generally enjoy my company-- he likes to sit on my desk, on my computer monitor, and occasionally on my head. He seems okay around me as long as I don't reach for him. But even when I stretch my hand out to offer a treat, he immediately shys away, and if I don't immediately withdraw my hand, he flies off to find another place to sit. (Usually, he flies back a few seconds later when I go back to whatever I was doing.)

He responds very well to cooing sounds. Whenever I make them, he gets very alert and looks at me, and if I continue he flies over to me (if he's not already very close) and sits on the nearest comfortable perch. Again, as long as I don't reach for him, he's happy.

I would really like him to feel comfortable sitting on my hand-- mostly because I hate coming off as a predator every time I have to catch him to put him back in the cage.

So over the past few days I have been wiggling my fingers a bit at him while making cooing sounds, I guess to see if he would make that association and be less afraid of my hand, since he seems to like those sounds. Today while I was doing this, he looked at me and started quickly stamping his feet (what does this mean?). Then he flew around me a bit while I continued to coo at him, finally landing on my hand for the first time. However, it seemed he only stayed there a few seconds until he realized what he was standing on-- then he quickly flew away again. 

Well, I was encouraged by this progress, so later in the day while he was poking around on the floor, I sat down, laid my hand palm-up on the floor a few feet away from him, and started cooing at him while wiggling my fingers, just as I had done before. After stomping his feet at me (again), to my surprise, he responded very quickly by hopping over to me, getting closer and closer to my hand without any of his previous fear. Just walked right up to my hand, looked at it...

...and wingslapped it. Twice. Before turning around and walking away like he had made his point and had nothing else to say.

I guess he just really doesn't like my hands.

Should I start wearing mittens around him or something? Really not sure what to do here. I'm worried I may have inadvertently convinced him that my hands are intruders/competition/predators. Any advice would be appreciated.

Also as a bonus, if you guys are interested, a short video of Oliver being ...Oliver.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Haha very funny story.. he is just agitated, give him some time to settle out.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Amaiko said:


> So I have been trying to tame Oliver, my ringneck dove. I let him out of the cage to free-roam the room multiple times a week in hopes that he'll get used to me, and we've been making quite a bit of progress. He is still rather skittish around me, but seems to generally enjoy my company-- he likes to sit on my desk, on my computer monitor, and occasionally on my head. He seems okay around me as long as I don't reach for him. But even when I stretch my hand out to offer a treat, he immediately shys away, and if I don't immediately withdraw my hand, he flies off to find another place to sit. (Usually, he flies back a few seconds later when I go back to whatever I was doing.)
> 
> He responds very well to cooing sounds. Whenever I make them, he gets very alert and looks at me, and if I continue he flies over to me (if he's not already very close) and sits on the nearest comfortable perch. Again, as long as I don't reach for him, he's happy.
> 
> ...


It all sounds pretty normal.. the best thing is to wait for him to make the move and don't force it.. try getting him interested in some treats..like safflower seeds and eating out of your hand.. I think being a lone dove with you he will eventually think your his mate and will be not as shy..but all doves seem to not like hands very much..reminds them of being caught which is not pleasant esp if your a prey animal.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Move your hands slooooooowly too. Even my baby (4 months now, so actually juvenile-young adults) ringnecks who've known me since they opened their eyes get nervous if I accidentally move too quickly. Remember, you have a prey bird and he does not have any protection but flight. He will be more jumpy than a parrot. 

Also, Spirit Wings is right. Some doves are not "touchy feely" people. I have a bird (Edmund) who is perfectly tame but when he is out of the cage he does not want touched at all. He wants to perch up high on a bookshelf and "oversee" us like an old grumpy cat. Eventually he'll come down and check out what we're doing, but he doesn't normally want to be touched. It's just who he is. And he makes me catch him when it's time for bed or for me to go to work because he's "the boss" and wants continuous dominion over the room. None of my other doves have this personality, though (two like to sit/climb on me--well, until they feel the need to go exploring, and their mommy is rather wild yet--she's always been a very nervous little thing and it's taking quite some time, 7 months so far, to tame her down. 2 of the diamond doves are flighty/nervous types, the other two are no-nonsense old ladies who are very practical.) Just telling about Edmund because cranky/dominant/Persian cat personalities do happen. 

Over all, though, I think you just need to hang out a lot with your little guy. Don't try to grab him after he's come to you or make any scary movements. Reinforce behaviors you want with safety and treats. (Safety being no scary movements or grabbing when you are encouraging him to move towards you. No scary noises if possible. Singing quietly helps sometimes.)


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

PS: 

Does he always bow coo to you as in the video? Or was he challenging his reflection. If it was directed in your direction I think he might be falling in love with you. Be prepared for some potential odd behaviors lol.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

My young one likes to bite my fingers` viciously' (lol), but I think its like a game to him ,similar to a kitten pouncing on your fingers if you poke them under a door. After a little play fight, he's happy to get on my arm and go for a walk around the house, and let me scratch him on the head. Lately I've been giving him treats when he pecks my hands. I think he's such a cool little little guy.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> My young one likes to bite my fingers` viciously' (lol), but I think its like a game to him ,similar to a kitten pouncing on your fingers if you poke them under a door. After a little play fight, he's happy to get on my arm and go for a walk around the house, and let me scratch him on the head. Lately I've been giving him treats when he pecks my hands. I think he's such a cool little little guy.


One of my little guys will gently nibble or bite on my fingertips. It goes back and forth between something kitten-like and something like preening. Sometimes he will also just hold my finger in his beak. It makes me wonder if this is a comfort thing that is like how his parents fed him when he was little. (like kneading drooling and wool-sucking in cats.)


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

Years ago, I had Porthos (a male ringneck) and at first, moving very slowly, I just got him used to my hands in his cage until he would step up. Eventually, he got so used to being handled he would do handstands on my palm. As for the foot stomping, my female pigeon, Ollie, does that when she's very excited and about to do something very daring and brave (like Oliver wing-slapping your hand).


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Cyreen said:


> Years ago, I had Porthos (a male ringneck) and at first, moving very slowly, I just got him used to my hands in his cage until he would step up. Eventually, he got so used to being handled he would do handstands on my palm. As for the foot stomping, my female pigeon, Ollie, does that when she's very excited and about to do something very daring and brave (like Oliver wing-slapping your hand).


Sometimes the stomping is also a "happy dance." One of my hens does that when she is excited each time I get her out of her cage. 

I agree with leaving your hand in the cage. I usually just lay mine on the floor or by the food dish. Or I put the favorite treats (like millet spray) in the "dead" hand and "ignore" the bird.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Libis said:


> Move your hands slooooooowly too. Even my baby (4 months now, so actually juvenile-young adults) ringnecks who've known me since they opened their eyes get nervous if I accidentally move too quickly. Remember, you have a prey bird and he does not have any protection but flight. He will be more jumpy than a parrot.
> 
> Also, Spirit Wings is right. Some doves are not "touchy feely" people. I have a bird (Edmund) who is perfectly tame but when he is out of the cage he does not want touched at all. He wants to perch up high on a bookshelf and "oversee" us like an old grumpy cat. Eventually he'll come down and check out what we're doing, but he doesn't normally want to be touched. It's just who he is. And he makes me catch him when it's time for bed or for me to go to work because he's "the boss" and wants continuous dominion over the room. None of my other doves have this personality, though (two like to sit/climb on me--well, until they feel the need to go exploring, and their mommy is rather wild yet--she's always been a very nervous little thing and it's taking quite some time, 7 months so far, to tame her down. 2 of the diamond doves are flighty/nervous types, the other two are no-nonsense old ladies who are very practical.) Just telling about Edmund because cranky/dominant/Persian cat personalities do happen.
> 
> Over all, though, I think you just need to hang out a lot with your little guy. Don't try to grab him after he's come to you or make any scary movements. Reinforce behaviors you want with safety and treats. (Safety being no scary movements or grabbing when you are encouraging him to move towards you. No scary noises if possible. Singing quietly helps sometimes.)



"singing quitely" is that possible?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

obaid said:


> "singing quitely" is that possible?


Yeah, just like you would to a little child. Like a lullaby.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Libis said:


> Yeah, just like you would to a little child. Like a lullaby.


lol, i thought it was 'singing gently'
Hope you dont mind
Interesting post by the way


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## buttertup (Oct 16, 2011)

I know I am reaching here, but what if you kept your fingers curled in as if in a fist. One thing I know is that to a prey animal our finger look for all the world like extended claws. later when he sees you as a mate it won't matter, but anyway, my thoughts, and it may help things along, simple as it is.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

buttertup said:


> I know I am reaching here, but what if you kept your fingers curled in as if in a fist. One thing I know is that to a prey animal our finger look for all the world like extended claws. later when he sees you as a mate it won't matter, but anyway, my thoughts, and it may help things along, simple as it is.


You know, I think you've got something there on the claw thing--I always keep my fingers together and my hands flat when I work with newer or nervous birds.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Libis said:


> You know, I think you've got something there on the claw thing--I always keep my fingers together and my hands flat when I work with newer or nervous birds.


I read somewhere that birds when see your face they consider it as an entity and your hands as another entity, it happens with my parrot he likes to talk to me and even call me when i going away from him but when I offer him my hand he gets a little nervous. 

He can easily snatch his food from my hand or even eat it from there but I have to be very carefull with my hand movement all the time.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

obaid said:


> I read somewhere that birds when see your face they consider it as an entity and your hands as another entity, it happens with my parrot he likes to talk to me and even call me when i going away from him but when I offer him my hand he gets a little nervous.
> 
> He can easily snatch his food from my hand or even eat it from there but I have to be very carefull with my hand movement all the time.


As a child I had a parrot who had been abused by his previous owners. He loved to sit by my face, but he would actually try to protect my face from my hands--hiding under my hair and hissing and nipping at my hands if they got too close. It took 3 years to get him to perch on my hand. (I miss you Mr. Suzy bird)


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

Keep your hand flat and below the bird. A raised hand looks enormous to any bird and he is going to be afraid. In his mind you are about to grab him.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

My pet feral, Rocky seems to have many relationships with my hand. Depending on his mood and/or circumstances, he'll try to feed it (by putting my finger down his throat), fight it (wingslapping, usually when my hand is higher than his head), nuzzle it (with gentle pecks), woo it (by cooing and dancing), mate with it (he _knows_ this isn't allowed!) or viciously attack (usually when I reach into or near his cage). 

And he's been known to do all of those things in the space of a few minutes.


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## Amaiko (May 2, 2011)

I realize this is incredibly late, but I wanted to thank you guys for all your advice (and amusing stories)! It's good to know that this isn't an uncommon problem.

I think the foot-stamping as a "happy dance" or something to express excitement/daring makes a lot of sense.

Libis, funny that you mention singing softly-- Way back when I was first aiming to tame him I would sing to him (maybe more to try to soothe myself than him) and it generally got his attention. Maybe it has the same effect as the cooing imitations I make now.

I haven't been able to spend much time with Oliver in these past months due to being sporadically in and out of town (Now I'm worried he's going to forsake me for my boyfriend)!, but he does seem to genuinely adore me; he coos non-stop when I'm in the room and not paying him enough attention, and when I let him roam the room he rarely strays very far from me. He does seem less afraid of my hands now, but he still shys away and won't step up on them. I did get him to take a chopped peanut from it once, so progress is being made, just very, very slowly. Maybe things will pick up again now that I'm home more often and can spend more time with him.

For a while I was trying to put my hand in his cage, near the food cup, just to see if he would get used to it, but he would always completely ignore it and the food in favor of cooing at my head, even more adamantly when I tried to completely ignore him. 

I will try keeping my hand flat or curled and see how that goes. Something else I've been trying is leaving a stiff garden glove (one that mostly keeps its shape even without a hand in it) near the food bowl, sometimes positioned so it's "holding" it, in some hopes that if I wear those gloves around him he will be less afraid. He has gotten to the point where he ignores the glove in the cage, often stepping on it and so on, but I haven't tried putting it on yet. I guess I'll see how it goes.

Thanks again guys!


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

Sounds like your dove might have been handled too much before you got it. He sounds friendly but is shy about your hands.

The advice you've gotten sounds good. Just be super gentle and move slowly. AVOID ever grabbing your dove - that's what probably got him afraid of hands in the first place - it can take them a long time to get over rough handling. And remember, even_ tame _doves are mostly just comfortable sitting on your hand, arm, or shoulder - they generally don't like being petted or scratched - petting a tame dove is interpreted like getting _way too personal_ and may imply you want to_ breed _with it - trust me, you don't want to go there!

My advice is to try and find some hemp seeds at a bird store or on the internet (eBay usually has some for sale). My doves love hemp seed and will do anything to get it. So hemp seed would make a great treat to only offer your dove from your hand. Believe me, that will get him tame. Also, if you can find frozen *baby* peas, he might like that from your hand too (of course, thaw them out and serve them room temperature - and also make sure they don't have salt or butter on them).


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## Amaiko (May 2, 2011)

What pretty birds!

Truth is, I can understand if he's just not a cuddler. In fact, the only thing that concerns me about his hand-fear is that it makes it difficult to get him back into his cage when I have to leave the room. I've had no success with luring him back to his cage with food. Usually I have to turn off all the lights and then throw a towel over him. It doesn't stress him out as badly as other methods I've tried in the past, but he still hates it and it distresses me that his happy free-flying time always has to end on a stressful note. It would be so much nicer if I could just get him to step on my hand so that I can carry him back to his cage.

I had never heard of hemp seed as a treat for birds before; I'm pretty sure the health food store nearby carries it. I'll have to try it out and see what he thinks.
Thanks!


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

grifter said:


> Keep your hand flat and below the bird. A raised hand looks enormous to any bird and he is going to be afraid. In his mind you are about to grab him.[/QUOT
> 
> And I should add once your hand is underneath him raise your hand and press upward against his breast, then he will step on to your hand.


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Throwing a towel over him*

Keep in mind that throwing a towel over your dove to get him back in the cage is probably *undoing* any progress you might have hand-taming him. Doves don't like to be grabbed and doing that may reinforce his fear of your hands.

I never _ever_ grab my doves like that and they are totally tame and easy to bring back to their cages. My doves only perch on my hand, arm, or shoulder. I never hold them or restrain them in any way. They just don't like it.

Is your dove's cage small enough that you can bring it over to him, with the door open, and "corner" him so so he has to step inside? That would be better than throwing a towel over him and grabbing him. Just my opinion!

And if you can corner him like I describe, say something to him like "go in" and he will gradually learn that those words mean "go in your cage".


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## Amaiko (May 2, 2011)

Yeah, I worried that might be the case, though I hoped the darkness and the towel would prevent him from thinking my hands had anything to do with it. But no, his cage is huge and far too big to carry around. If you or anyone else has any other less-traumatizing ideas to get him to go back into the cage, I'd love to hear them.


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Hmmm*

I would just keep working on hand-taming him with food so he will eventually see your hands in a positive way. Start with offering food in a jar lid or small bowl, that you hold in your hand (if that's too much for him, try just leaving the bowl next him at first and later try holding it). Also, you might see if you can get him to go on a stick and _slowly _walk him back to his cage... remember to talk to him softly when you do that or any taming exercize (it may distract him or at least put him at eaze - they say that staring at birds _without _making any noise may seem like a "predatory gaze").

Lastly, sometimes _slowly_ dimming the lights will remind birds that it is *time* to go to bed. Mine almost always go back in their cages, by themselves, before dark. And some of my birds go back to their cages even when I leave the room for a while - so you could try leaving him alone a while and he may go back in himself.

On the positive side, if he can be loose in the room with you and not terrified (or flying into the wall), that's a *good* thing and means you are already part-way there!


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

I totally agree with Grifter's suggestion! That's how I use my hand as a transportation tool for my Krikky. With Krik-Krik, it's a different ball game. He is so tame, he listens to my verbal instructions. All I need to do is tell him I want him to go back into his room (yes his loft is my parents ensuite bathroom! Spoilt little thing) and he flies straight into it and waits for me to close the door. He responds to commands, if I want him to fly to point A to B, I just tell him and points to the place and he'll do it.

He also gives _ME_ instructions when he wants things but thats another story! LOL

Maybe for your case, i would suggest withholding giving him peanuts when he is roaming outside. When you want him back into his cage, put peanuts in it (lots enough to attract his attention)... lure him back into the cage with his favourite treats! Once he is in, just close the door.

Sooner or later, when his peanut cravings begin, he will know that his cage is the way to go. This would help.

On days that Krikky gets very naughty, I would put peanuts into his feeding bowl and points excitedly to it "Look Krikky! Peanuts in your bowl!!" and he flies excitedly to it and while he munches away, I just closed the door and say goodnight to him. It works like a charm!

Good luck! We look forward to your progress!


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