# sick pigeon green poops, Help



## Joe Black

Hello everyone,
One of my young pigeons (5months) old I noticed him a little away from the group with Fluff feathers. 

I moved him inside and noticed green poops (pictures included) I started treatment two days ago with Coximed for Coccidiosis and for Canker with Metro. I haven’t seen much improvement. He is eating and drinking but very little... I have other medication at my disposal such as Amoxicillin, Bay trill, Doxycycline. 

Any suggestions will be appreciated. I have already looked for signs of Canker and I see none... No respiratory issues and no other symptoms... 
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Skyeking

*Before you medicate this young bird, without diagnosis, give the bird some probiotics to help stimulate the good gut bacteria and increase appetite. 

This alone may be all that this young bird needs to get poop solid. I have seen it thousands of times. Young birds have little good gut bacteria, and when they are stressed or medicated they deplete it quickly and bad bacteria gets a chance to grow. 

So start there, make sure you have the bird on a heating pad, and start hand feeding the bird (huner and/or starvation will bring him down quickly). Here is a link on feeding peas and/or corn: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/peasandcorn.htm

If the youngster still has symptoms then get a diagnosis, (but don't just medicate) from avian vet or bird rehabber, or clear symptoms.*


----------



## Joe Black

I will buy some probiotic today... Thank you


----------



## Joe Black

I gave her formula with feeding 
needle and she vomited.. I noticed she was not eating on her own... I have given her probiotic and no positive results... The green poop is watery and green. I am going to feed her again today and see if she can keep it down.. I am starting to get concern... Green watery poops is a sign of what condition?
Thanks

Joe


----------



## GimpieLover

Vomiting could be a few things. My first guess would be candida. 
Basic stabilization is very important to start ruling things out if were just playing the guessing game. Fecal tests and crop swab would narrow a lot if you are able to get those. 
I would feed the defrosted peas instead of formula if she is regurgitating. Formula is easy to aspirate. 
Start with very small portions and see if it moves though. 
If no vet can be seen, I'd start a broad spectrum and a little ACV


----------



## Skyeking

Joe Black said:


> I gave her formula with feeding
> needle and she vomited.. I noticed she was not eating on her own... I have given her probiotic and no positive results... The green poop is watery and green. I am going to feed her again today and see if she can keep it down.. I am starting to get concern... Green watery poops is a sign of what condition?
> Thanks
> 
> Joe


*Have you ever fed formula before? Perhaps the bird asperated.

The bird is 5 months old and weaned, why are you feeding it formula? Use the link I provided and start feeding it the peas, it is much less stressful on the bird and you do not have to give water.

ACV can also be used in the drinking water and that will help generate good gut bacteria as well.*


----------



## Joe Black

Bird was not eating on its own and not drinking, I felt formula was the best option at the moment. I am not an expert but no Bird has not aspirated. Today I am going to give her some ACV and I been told baking soda is also helpful… I been giving her Baytril and Doxycycline but I see no improvement.
How much ACV should I mix per gallon of water? I am going to use a feeding 
needle because she is not drinking…
Thanks so much for the advice.


I have this one and I feel confortable using it.... I know it causes stress on the bird but what are my other options?








http://www.feedingneedles.com/images/ReUsableLongCurved.jpg


----------



## Joe Black

Skyeking said:


> *
> 
> The bird is 5 months old and weaned, why are you feeding it formula?
> 
> *


You misunderstood, I gave the bird formula on this occasion do to the fact that the bird was not eating and had regurgitated his mix seeds… However, I understand now why green pies are a better option...
Thanks…


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> Bird was not eating on its own and not drinking, I felt formula was the best option at the moment. I am not an expert but no Bird has not aspirated. Today I am going to give her some ACV and I been told baking soda is also helpful… I been giving her Baytril and Doxycycline but I see no improvement.


If the problem of your pigeon is salmonella, it hardly passes with oral antibiotics. If possible, try injectable Lincomycin - Spectinomycin. I use it frequently and it almost always is effective against all types of bacteria. Treatment last three days (one injection 0.1 - 0.2 ml / day).
If not available, try injectable Enrofloxacin (Baytril).



> How much ACV should I mix per gallon of water? I am going to use a feeding
> needle because she is not drinking…
> Thanks so much for the advice.


The usual dose, when birds are heatlhy, is one spoon to a galloon. 

But in the present case, with all these antibiotics, your bird could have developed crop candida by now. Actually, the fact that the bird doesn't eat may be partly caused by candida growth in crop. Candida advances fast and may completely block the crop. If you encounter such symptom as bird being with food from previous day in crop in the morning (which indicates crop blockage caused by candida), you could give water with 10% acv instead of usual water. The sourness clears candida pretty good but must be given 2-3 days after the problem disappear, as candida recidives. You should give like 7 ml, 3-4 times / day (if you give more water at an administration, it may come into mouth and enter trachea, if you give less, may not have effect).




> I have this one and I feel confortable using it.... I know it causes stress on the bird but what are my other options?


Buy from human drugstore an aspiration catheter:










Cut 8-9 inches from the end and attach it to a syringe. Introduce slowly, without forcing at all. If you feel any obstacle, stop, pull out and try again.

The aspiration catheters come in few diameter sizes with some codes: CH10 is around 3 mm, CH8 around 2 mm and CH6 around 6 mm. The smaller, the less stress you cause to the bird but CH6 is sometimes too narrow, liquid food may get blocked so I alternatively use CH8 and CH6.


----------



## AndreiS

How long and what dose have you been giving metronidazole? The treatment must not be interrupted for 7 days.


----------



## Joe Black

AndreiS Thank you so much for your advice, it was you who helped me saved Joro when he was sick and I appreciate you taking the time as well as everyone else.
I was giving the bird Doxycycline for 3 days. 
Metro 100mg tablets for two day as directed by the bottle.
I also gave her one treatment of Coximed for coccidiosis. I also gave her some Medistatin that is used for Candida.
I just mixed 2.5 table spoons to a gallon of water and gave her 5 ML of water but I think she did not hold it in because I noticed a wet spot on the cage when I checked on her an hour later.
I also noticed that the feed from this morning still in the crop.
I don’t have any injectable with me and I feel it will take too long if I order it. 
She is losing weight.
Thank you again and I will wait for your reply...


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> I was giving the bird Doxycycline for 3 days.
> Metro 100mg tablets for two day as directed by the bottle.


You shouldn't give more than two drugs / day, at 12 hours distance. The drugs are toxic and the liver cann't support more than this. 

Metronidazole is given 40-50 mg / day for at least seven days for an adult, medium sized pigeon. If you give too much / day, you may encounter serious problems. Some time ago I overdosed metronidazole on four 
pigeons and this affected their sight, plus damage the liver. And if you underdose or interrupt one or more days, the trichomonas become resistent to drug, more or less.




> I also gave her one treatment of Coximed for coccidiosis. I also gave her some Medistatin that is used for Candida.


As I said, you don't give more than two medicines in a day and shouldn' expect results before several days at see results before a number of days at oral drugs. If you give 2-3 days this drug, then 2-3 days other drug, you waste time in which the disease advances and uselessly intoxicate the bird.


You have to have a strategy prepared, to think at a way of action not when the bird is sick but before, when is healthy, because when the bird gets sick you get stressed too and the psychological pressure makes you do mistakes.

You have to establish which disease you treat first, because in most cases sick bird suffer of two, sometimes three diseases. Because candida blocks the crop and makes any oral drug administration useless, you should focus first on it. If you gave drugs recently, they likely have accumulated in crop and if the crop gets deblocked, they hit together, causing high toxicity on liver. You may try to wash the crop before trying to deblock, by introducing water, gently massaging the crop, including its bottom, then extracting the water using the same device (syringe with a tube). You do this several times.

Medistatin is based on nistatin. On internet, this drug is recommended for candida in birds, but from my experience is useless. 

Also, candida may manifest by entering the respiratory system,causing an asthma - like coughing, or building networks of fibres and appearing in mouth as white formations. In such case, only systemic antifungals are efficient (acv actions only topic, on the crop mucosa, doesn't enter the blood), fluconazole being the less toxic, though is very toxic anyway. I would say to avoid itraconazole or other antifungals. I got some scary situations with itra.



> I just mixed 2.5 table spoons to a gallon of water and gave her 5 ML of water but I think she did not hold it in because I noticed a wet spot on the cage when I checked on her an hour later.


Is too little to have an effect. In fact, even if acv is below 5% may not have effect. When candida gets hold in a bird's crop, is very hard to remove. If you're not fasdt enough and don't give enough acv, you lose the bird. 



> I don’t have any injectable with me and I feel it will take too long if I order it.
> She is losing weight.


Can't you go to a vet? Or to a farm? Maybe they have it, its is used in industry. If not, the next best thing you can do is to continue with oral Baytril, 5mg of active substance /day.

Anyway, I'm not sure is salmonella, may be canker too so I would treat for both. Is not excluded to be two diseases, like coccidiosis and salmonella or coccidiosis and canker. 

Sometimes, when there are two different pathogens infecting the same location (like the bowel), the stronger may inhibate the weaker and only symptoms of the stronger are initially apparent. If you treat and destroy the stronger pathogen, the weaker (in the aforementioned examples the weaker is coccidia) becomes apparent in symptoms. It happened to me few times. And there are also situations when the different pathogens acts in combination, like in adenocoli (a virus and a bacteria) or coryza (chlamydia, a bacterium and canker).


----------



## Joe Black

AdreiS, I followed your advice and gave the bird 7 ML of water with 10 acv. Her crop is not empty. I will check again in the morning and repeat mid-day. She is losing weight fast and I am really concern. If I don’t see any improvements by tomorrow I am going to be force to bite the bullet and take her to my Vet…


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> AdreiS, I followed your advice and gave the bird 7 ML of water with 10 acv. Her crop is not empty. I will check again in the morning and repeat mid-day. She is losing weight fast and I am really concern. If I don’t see any improvements by tomorrow I am going to be force to bite the bullet and take her to my Vet…


If candida is big, surely isn't going to be clear immediately, possibly is not going to be clear at all. More acv / dose would theoretically have effect, but the stress put on bird is too much so is better to remain at that concentration. If you feel the crop is filled with liquid, don't put more liquid. You can extract the existing liquid and replace it with the 10% acv solution. Crop must have a little amount of liquid at any time and bird must be kept on a floor or in a cage where can't fall or accidentally have her crop pushed, which may lead to water climbing in mouth and entering the lungs via tracheal vent. This is how actually candida kill birds, by suffocation with water.


----------



## Joe Black

Last night I gave her 7 ML of water mix with 10% ACV and she still had food remaning on the crop. This morning i checked on her and the crop was empty and notice some poop on the paper towel so the crop is empty now and the ACV seemed to work very well...
I Just gave her another 7ML and i am going to wait an hour and give her some warm peas not to many to keep the crop moving.
I been told by some that Formula is better and other that peas are better, I will love to hear a little more about the subject.... My neighbor whom is a over 500 pigion said that formula is better because is has vitamin A and C.. He also adds one egg white to the formula for added protein.....


----------



## AndreiS

When I'm giving defrosted peas, I peel them and then pass them two times through a thick sieve, making a paste that I mix with some water to the point of being fluid. Then I warm it a little and give it with syringe + tube. This way is more easily digerable. In some enteritis cases, the birds can't digest defrosted peas, they remain in crop.

Peas lack the stark of corn, the fat of sunflower and probably other nutrients. They are good as short term temporary solution.

Formula is complete, it has the right blance between the nutrient categories, plus probiotics, enzymes etc. The disadvantage is that is a little sweet and helps candida grow, if present. You can mix acv in the formula in similar percentage as you do in water. For me, is standard practice.

Notice that according to webpages about drug interactions, food containing alcohol should be avoided when giving metronidazole, as the interaction between them causes serious side effects. So avoid giving acv (which contains alcohol) few hours before and after giving metronidazole.


----------



## Jay3

Hi Joe. If you are comfortable with the feeding tube and can do that well, then I would also use the formula. Sometimes when things are not moving through well, the pea skins can get stuck also. I think formula is easier on the bird. If you give a few of drops of Pepto 30 min before feeding and medicating, it will probably stop the vomiting, and give the Metro after feeding, as it can also cause vomiting on an empty crop. Would have been good to get the droppings checked at least before meds, but with the bird on meds, can't do that right now. I like the Coximed, as you can give one pill, then another pill 10 days later. In between for 10 days I would do the Baytril in am and the Metro in evening or late afternoon after giving Pepto and feeding. I also use Nystatin while on Baytril, but in between the other meds, and give it a couple of days after the treatment. Giving too many different meds is going to make her feel sick, and she won't want to eat.

Also, if the crop isn't emptying, by very careful in putting in more liquid, as aspiration is more likely.
A bit of warmed baby applesauce with just a bit of water often helps thing move through.


----------



## Joe Black

Thank you so much Jay.
I been giving her the 7 Mil of Water with 10% ACV and gave her the peas twice today. I gave her the baytril and the Metro in the late afternoon… Her poops change colors today from Green to Dark Mustard yellow for a couple of dropping but then back to green... What I noticed is lots of clear water when she poops. I will keep on feeding her the formula and follow your advice…
She has lost a lot of weight and is looking weaker … I hope she makes it…
I am not sure if I should incorporate the Amoxicillin on her treatment.. Right now everything is shotgun because I don’t have an Idea the problem that she has but I am treating her with everything at my disposal and making sure she is hydrated and fed… That is the best I can do.


----------



## Joe Black

Yes, I feel very comfortable with the feeding tube and it works great... I angle left from the right side and I always make sure that I go above her trachea opening... The tip of the tube is round and big and I don't think it fits on the trachea opening. I go slowly and if I feel any resistance I stop right away.... It working fine and I think is very safe once the process is applied properly.


----------



## Jay3

I would go with the Baytril and Metro. Is she drinking on her own? With the formula she would get enough water, but with canker, they will usually drink more, then there will be lots of water when she poops. How much are you feeding her?


----------



## Jay3

Joe Black said:


> Yes, I feel very comfortable with the feeding tube and it works great...* I angle left from the right side and I always make sure that I go above her trachea opening... The tip of the tube is round and big and I don't think it fits on the trachea opening.* I go slowly and if I feel any resistance I stop right away.... It working fine and I think is very safe once the process is applied properly.



You _do _mean you angle left, from the right side (meaning your left, not hers). You would be surprised what can fit down the trach. The ball on the needle actually can.


----------



## kiddy

AndreiS said:


> You shouldn't give more than two drugs / day, at 12 hours distance. The drugs are toxic and the liver cann't support more than this.
> 
> Metronidazole is given 40-50 mg / day for at least seven days for an adult, medium sized pigeon. If you give too much / day, you may encounter serious problems. Some time ago I overdosed metronidazole on four
> pigeons and this affected their sight, plus damage the liver. And if you underdose or interrupt one or more days, the trichomonas become resistent to drug, more or less.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, you don't give more than two medicines in a day and shouldn' expect results before several days at see results before a number of days at oral drugs. If you give 2-3 days this drug, then 2-3 days other drug, you waste time in which the disease advances and uselessly intoxicate the bird.
> 
> 
> You have to have a strategy prepared, to think at a way of action not when the bird is sick but before, when is healthy, because when the bird gets sick you get stressed too and the psychological pressure makes you do mistakes.
> 
> You have to establish which disease you treat first, because in most cases sick bird suffer of two, sometimes three diseases. Because candida blocks the crop and makes any oral drug administration useless, you should focus first on it. If you gave drugs recently, they likely have accumulated in crop and if the crop gets deblocked, they hit together, causing high toxicity on liver. *You may try to wash the crop before trying to deblock, by introducing water, gently massaging the crop, including its bottom, then extracting the water using the same device (syringe with a tube). You do this several times.*
> 
> Medistatin is based on nistatin. On internet, this drug is recommended for candida in birds, but from my experience is useless.
> 
> Also, candida may manifest by entering the respiratory system,causing an asthma - like coughing, or building networks of fibres and appearing in mouth as white formations. In such case, only systemic antifungals are efficient (acv actions only topic, on the crop mucosa, doesn't enter the blood), fluconazole being the less toxic, though is very toxic anyway. I would say to avoid itraconazole or other antifungals. I got some scary situations with itra.
> 
> 
> Is too little to have an effect. In fact, even if acv is below 5% may not have effect. When candida gets hold in a bird's crop, is very hard to remove. If you're not fasdt enough and don't give enough acv, you lose the bird.
> 
> 
> Can't you go to a vet? Or to a farm? Maybe they have it, its is used in industry. If not, the next best thing you can do is to continue with oral Baytril, 5mg of active substance /day.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure is salmonella, may be canker too so I would treat for both. Is not excluded to be two diseases, like coccidiosis and salmonella or coccidiosis and canker.
> 
> Sometimes, when there are two different pathogens infecting the same location (like the bowel), the stronger may inhibate the weaker and only symptoms of the stronger are initially apparent. If you treat and destroy the stronger pathogen, the weaker (in the aforementioned examples the weaker is coccidia) becomes apparent in symptoms. It happened to me few times. And there are also situations when the different pathogens acts in combination, like in adenocoli (a virus and a bacteria) or coryza (chlamydia, a bacterium and canker).


Just to emphasize, one should do it if and only is comfortable with it else the situation may get worse.


----------



## Jay3

kiddy said:


> Just to emphasize, one should do it if and only is comfortable with it else the situation may get worse.


Agree with what Kiddy is saying. If not done correctly, you can unjure the crop. You don't just use any tube, it has to be cut right and used right.


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> Thank you so much Jay.
> I been giving her the 7 Mil of Water with 10% ACV and gave her the peas twice today. I gave her the baytril and the Metro in the late afternoon… Her poops change colors today from Green to Dark Mustard yellow for a couple of dropping but then back to green... What I noticed is lots of clear water when she poops. I will keep on feeding her the formula and follow your advice…
> She has lost a lot of weight and is looking weaker … I hope she makes it…
> I am not sure if I should incorporate the Amoxicillin on her treatment.. Right now everything is shotgun because I don’t have an Idea the problem that she has but I am treating her with everything at my disposal and making sure she is hydrated and fed… That is the best I can do.


That mustard color of droppings may be because toxicity caused by overmedicating. Yellowish color indicates liver damage, usually caused by toxic ingestions. 

As a general approach, give as little medicines as possible, as most of them are more or less toxic, being in fact poisons, that always have side effects. They act on bird's organism like the germs, weakening her immune system. Supplements (probiotics, vitasmins, calcium and other minerals, acv etc) on other hand, are fortifying the immune system but some of them are nocive too if overdosing.




Joe Black said:


> Yes, I feel very comfortable with the feeding tube and it works great... I angle left from the right side and I always make sure that I go above her trachea opening... The tip of the tube is round and big and I don't think it fits on the trachea opening. I go slowly and if I feel any resistance I stop right away.... It working fine and I think is very safe once the process is applied properly.


Is better to go as deep as the bottom of the crop, but for that you need a thin tube, like aspiration catheter I mentioned. Such a tube must have 9 inches and most of it must enter the bird's body. 

When something is introduced on esophagus, the space becomes narrower (the distance between esophagus' walls and the tube) and the liquid has the tendency to go up because of the capillary effect's action. This even more in werak birds, which because of eimaciation and dehydration have a reduced diameter of the upper digestive tract.


----------



## Joe Black

Thanks everyone for your help. I have been giving the bird the Baytril Oral for 5 days already and I have not notice any improvement. I have also given the Metro at a rate of 50mg per day for 5 days with no improvement. Her crop is empty ok when I give her formula or pies but it takes longer to empty if I give her seed mix which happen the first day I notice she was sick. Her droppings are still green and watery and not yellow mustard like the other day. The yellow Mustard Dropping was not numerous and it only happens for half a day. I have been giving her 7 ml of water 3 to 4 times a day with 10% ACV but I have not seen any improvement she still looking sick and losing weight.
After 5 days of Baytril and Metro I don’t think the medication is having a positive effect on her condition and her sickness is not getting any better.
My local vet is not an avian vet and last time I took another bird there he did not seem too knowledgeable about pigeons in general… 
I am out of Idea and all I have left is to keep on feeding the pigeon and hydrating her and hope that her immune will fight the Infection back.

Thanks everyone for your advice.


----------



## Jay3

I wouldn't switch the med. Sometimes it can take time. Are they both in tablet form, or is the Baytril liquid?


----------



## Joe Black

They are both in tablet form... I will finish the treatment but I don't think is helping at all. I have not seen any improvemt.


----------



## Jay3

How much are you feeding?


----------



## Joe Black

Hi Jay,
The Baytril I been administering at 5mg per day and the Metro at 50 MG per day... 
I been feeding her food twice a day approx. 25 peas per feeding and now that I change to formula about 20 ML of Formula two times a day... 




Jay3 said:


> How much are you feeding?


----------



## AndreiS

It could be that the oral antibiotics are not strong enough. Other explication is that the bird has circovirus, a virus which _infect the lymphoid organs (such as the thymus, the spleen, bone marrow, bursa Fabricius). Because these organs are infected, the pigeons are not capable to make a good, valuable resistance, even against the most common and harmless infections, it is possible that they may fail to make any immunity._ (that was a copy-paste from pipa.be). 

Some weeks ago, maybe one month, I had two cases with green droppings which seemed to not respond to antibiotics and metronidazole. The green droppings stopped in an end and now they are stable, though have both ankylosed (or paralysed?) wings and cannot fly.


A more simpler explanation (though it can be false) is that the green color is because the bird is starving. Such a sick and heaqvily medicated bird must be given more than usual food to rebuilt it lost weight. Question is why your bird does lose weight? Are you feeding her enough? At formula, is not important how much water, but how much dried substance she assimilates, either you make it more diluted or thicker. I'd say to give her less thick,asif too thick, may block into crop. Are you puting acv in formula? As I said, its sweetness helps candida. The best way is to alternate formula + acv and water + acv. The water washes the crop of rests of formula.
Defrosted peas are low in providing enough nutrients, so don't rely on them, save if you give large amounts, but don't do this if you give whole peas, as they might be too hard to digest.


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> I been feeding her food twice a day approx. 25 peas per feeding and now that I change to formula about 20 ML of Formula two times a day...


That is extremely little food. Frozen peas are 70% water. No wonder your bird is starving and the green droppings may be because starvation. 

A sick, thin and heavily medicated bird needs lot of food to support the toxicity of meds, to fight the disease and regain weight. That is, more than the usual amount a bird of her weight eats. Give serious amount of formula, take care so that enough dry substance (Kaytee powder) to get into her. Is not important how much water but how much powder she assimilates, but you should give it not very thick formula, as may get accumulated on the bottom of the crop. So feed her small but many amounts of food over day. As soon as the crop is empty, fill it again with slightly warmed formula.

To prevent candida, mix acv in formula and alternates each lunch with some water + acv or at least each two lunches. Water will wash the crop from the rests of formula, reducing the risk of crop slowering.


----------



## Joe Black

She has not vomit in a couple of days but her dropping are green and very watery. She is not active at all.....


----------



## Jay3

She needs more food than that. Try giving her 30mls 3 times a day. If still no vomiting I would give more. 

Do you have a weight on her by any chance? Is she drinking a lot on her own?


----------



## Joe Black

I will increase the amount of food tomorrow to 30ML 3 times a day to see how she responds…
I don’t think is going to make it pass tomorrow, tonight she seem very ill and when I put her back on the cage after an examination she did not stand on her feet but laid down with her wings open to gain balance.. I have seen this before from another sick rescue and she died the next day. I hope that is not the case and that tomorrow morning when I check on her she will be fine.
I feel sad because I had saved this bird a few months ago from Pox and she and her brother recovered 100% and were very active in the loft... Not sure what illness is affecting her….


----------



## cwebster

Her symptoms remind me of the bird we lost, Chloe, who had circovirus. Circovirus attacks young birds apparently at 3 to 5 months of age. Am sad that your bird is not getting better. Hope she improves. Hope you take comfort from knowing you are doing all you can. Do,you have an avian vet who can examine and treat her?


----------



## Joe Black

Thank you .... I remember when Chloe was sick that was at the same times that My bird Joro was also sick.... Sometimes is hard to deal with pigeons when they are sick and we are doing our best but we don't see any improvement.

Thank you.




cwebster said:


> Her symptoms remind me of the bird we lost, Chloe, who had circovirus. Circovirus attacks young birds apparently at 3 to 5 months of age. Am sad that your bird is not getting better. Hope she improves. Hope you take comfort from knowing you are doing all you can. Do,you have an avian vet who can examine and treat her?


----------



## Jay3

Sometimes you really do need a vet to be sure of what you are treating. 
Sometimes it just takes a while. I hope you see some improvement soon.


----------



## kiddy

Joe, Did you increase the feeding amount? Don't lose hope. Our wishes and prayers are with you and you are taking good care of her, just be brave and don't lose courage. She might recover. You never know who has to live and how long. All the best.


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> Thank you so much Jay.
> I been giving her the 7 Mil of Water with 10% ACV and gave her the peas twice today. I gave her the baytril and the Metro in the late afternoon… Her poops change colors today from Green to Dark Mustard yellow for a couple of dropping but then back to green... What I noticed is lots of clear water when she poops. I will keep on feeding her the formula and follow your advice…


Frozen peas have little nutritional value, they are 70% water and given only twice a day means the bird is starving. The *green color of droppings might be simply because of starvation* and I tend to think is your case, as by now the treatments you gave should have cleared the disease(s). I have presently a recent rescue (around a week ago), very emaciated, pasing lively green droppings. After giving her injectable antibiotics for three days, droppings kept being lively green. Then I stopped the treatment and kept feed her consistently, and after few more days the droppings started to turn toward normal color.

The medicines you give not only that may not be necessary, but are making the situation worse, because most medicines have immuno-suppressing effect, especially on a emaciated bird and especially when given several at the same time. In fact, a single medicine is enough to kill a weak bird. 

So I think you should stop medicating and give only enough food, but not peas, formula, plus vitamins and probiotics and keep giving only once a day water with vinegar. Also I would say to put vinegar in formula too. Keep in mind that an average pigeon must ingest 30 mg of dried food (in this case, dried formula powder) / day. If available, buy a hepatoprotective supplement and give it. Most drugs's toxicity affects the liver and its protection is helped by such supplements containing methionine, B1 vitamin or natural extracts.



> I should incorporate the Amoxicillin on her treatment


What does Amoxicillin does Baytril as well. Baytril is only more toxic.





> .. Right now everything is shotgun because I don’t have an Idea the problem that she has but I am treating her with everything at my disposal and making sure she is hydrated and fed… That is the best I can do.


 If a disease is present, you won't hit the disease in this way. The lose of weight is because she is not enough feed. If a bird is normally feed, it can't lose weight, save if it has worms, which doesn't seem your case (dropping have bloodish episodes).


----------



## AndreiS

Joe Black said:


> I will increase the amount of food tomorrow to 30ML 3 times a day to see how she responds…
> I don’t think is going to make it pass tomorrow, tonight she seem very ill and when I put her back on the cage after an examination she did not stand on her feet but laid down with her wings open to gain balance.


Is not important how many ml but how much dried substance is contained. An average pigeon must ingest 30 mg dried substance / day. If you gave only peas and only two times / day for longer period, is very little, they are 70% water so you can calculate how little dried substance you gavce, which explain her loss of weight. 

Even if sick, if a bird eats sufficiently, she doesn't lose weight.

*The green color of droppings could be only because of starvation, as well as her letargy.*

Besides starvation, the too many medicines you gave were also a cause. Medicines are poisons designed to kill germs but they also affect the patient, have immuno-suppressing effect. Many birds are not killed by the germs but by the overmedication given to them by unexperienced breeders / rescuers.

If you gave metronidazole and an antibiotic for 7 days, you should stop, if there was canker or bacteria, it was killed by now, ifr you gave the proper dose. Start giving probiotics in consistent amount, vitamins. Give a suplimentary dose of A vitamin but not more than the amount indicated on drug's poackage / instructions paper.


----------



## Skyeking

Skyeking said:


> *Before you medicate this young bird, without diagnosis, give the bird some probiotics to help stimulate the good gut bacteria and increase appetite.
> 
> If the youngster still has symptoms then get a diagnosis, (but don't just medicate) from avian vet or bird rehabber.*





Jay3 said:


> Sometimes you really do need a vet to be sure of what you are treating.


*You actually do not know what you are dealing with and all the meds have put tremendous stress on this birds gut and debilitate digestion-plus gut PH iss off, and this allowa an overgrowth of bad bacteria. Diagnosis from a qualified avian vet is most important. The bird may also be weak due to lack of food.*


----------



## cwebster

Haven't gone back and reread what you have tried feeding besides peas. Will the bird eat any seed on its own? Is he keeping down and digesting the formula? Also you may want to put seed in the birds mouth. I used the plastic container that the medicine eye dropper came in and poured it into Chloe's mouth. But it depends on whether the birds crop is emptying ok. Hope if the birds poop is just green from lack of food that he is eating better soon. Is he lethargic or does he seem energetic? Wish you could have an avian vet check him out. Sounds a lot like Chloe. Every time we treated for one thing another problem began. It is very hard then. Am sending good wishes your way.


----------

