# H E L P---one of my feral flock is badly injured



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thismorning after all of my feral flock finished eating and had left, I noticed one little white bird come out from under the car in my driveway, pittifully looking for any seed that might have been left behind.

The bird is unable to fly, and it appears that it's foot is broken. I don't know how long the bird was under the car, but he/she is covered with oil and grease. The wing on the same side as the broken foot is drooping.

I was able to catch the bird and now have it in a pet carrier with seed & water. It did eat some seed, and the bird seems emaciated. I examined the bird as best as I could and do not see any open wounds. At first I thought maybe one of the neighbors cat's had gotten it, but now I am thinking that it was possibly hit by a car.

I tried to put the bird in a donut towel to keep the pressure off the foot, but the bird would not stay in it.

I have tried to contact Phil (pdpbison), but he is not answering the phone. You know he is a night owl, so he is not available as yet.

I have no meds at my disposal. I want to desperatly save this bird!!!! It is such a beautiful little thing.

What else should I be doing????????? Should I attempt to bathe the bird in Dawn dishwashing detergent???? The feathers underneath and the tail feathers are all stuck together from the oil & grease. I'm thinking maybe it is just best right now to let it rest for awhile before I stress it out any further.

Bird pooped twice, it is solid.......dark green...with little white urates.

Please help me. I feel so inadaquate to help this bird. 

Thanks,
Louise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I just heard from Phil..........I'm bringing the bird over to him now.


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Louise
I think a bath at this point would tax his strength. I think rest, food, water and a heating pad for warmth would be best until you can hook up with Phil. Does the oil/grease have a very strong odor like gasoline or if it might be toxic??


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## juanputik (Aug 18, 2008)

how's your feral pigeon? is it ok now?


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Dear Louise
I am so sorry to read about your pigeon. Luckily you managed to get her and provide a safe place for the bird.
I think it is important to keep the bird calm and avoid extra stress but at the same time those chemicals are quite toxic and I do not know how fast they can be absored. I would leave other more experienced members to commend on cleaning the bird and what to use, I would not use anything harsh myself. I have heard that some vegetable oil might help to dissolve the engine oil initially.
The wood pigeon I rescued 8th September had a very bad car accident and was actually worse that yours with missing feathers, bleeding underneath, broken wing and legs and possible spine and nerve injuries.
I have been using homoeopathy for ourselves and my cats and this is what I decided to use on him. His progress is kind of miraculous even though he still has a long way to recovery. I did not have any infections or complications and he is getting stronger and better every day.
I understand you do not have any remedies but I am sure you will be able to find a Health food place that stocks these basic remedies.
Sorry I can not advise you on a suitable place in the US as I am based in the UK.Perhaps an on line search will help you find the best local supplier.
You can have a look at my thread titled: Injured wood pigeon-Please help!
and get some ideas for your pigeon. I am sure you can help him with your care and lots of love! It will take time but it is worth it.
To start with I would recommend Arnica 200, Hypericum 1M, Ruta Grav. 30 , 2 to 3 times a day for the first week and keep an eye on the progress.
You can mix them together and dilute in 0.5 to 1 ml clean water.Administer drop by drop on the beak. Leave at least 15 mins before and after remedies without any food. Try not to touch with your fingers the remedies as they are affected and loose effectiveness.
You can use salt water or diluted (1/10) Hypercal sulution (homoeopathic) to clean any wounds.

I hope this information and my thread can offer you some ideas.
All the best to your pigeon. I will keep an eye to see the progress.

With my thoughts 

Maria


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Louise I'm so glad you found the pij I'm sure that Phil will know exactly how to treat it. 

Please keep us updated.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Louise, she is gorgeous looking bird, even with her feathers so dirty and such, the beauty is still shining thru. She is so lucky, to get you there, at a right time and right place. Good job.

Nell


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Just my opinion, but 1M is high potency for a homeopathic. I personally would start with a lower potency to avoid risk of aggravations. (Besides that, health food stores are unlikely to carry anything about 30 or maybe 200c, so you probably would not be able to get it easily anyway.)

As the others said, it's important to get the bird stable before putting him through the stress of a bath. Sometimes getting them stable is a days-long process.

Poor little one. I hope he recovers!

Jennifer


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Jennifer,
I understand your reservations about 1M or 200c, but I have safely been using them for years on our cats and they are the potencies recommended in emergencies (George Macleod). I was concerned at the beginning with regard to birds but they seem to work faster and more effectively even on pigeons. March, my woodpigeon rescued on 8th September has been on these potencies all this time and his progress has been wonderful. I am not an homoeopath, but this is only my personal experience and hence advice.
I agree that you will not find these potencies on regular shops, but a specialist in the US, like HELIOS in the UK, can provide all your require.
I hope this clarifies any misunderstandings.

Regards

Maria


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Maria,

I didn't misunderstand--just have a different opinion. I've frequently used homeopathic remedies on my cats up to CM potencies, but only under the direction of our vet (who was a fellow of the BIH). (The lower potencies I have used on them independently and without reservation.) 

I'm not really comfortable using high potencies on rehab birds because of the aggravation potential if I have the wrong remedy, although there are certainly other rehabbers who use up to 1m in rehab patients successfully (http://www.ewildagain.org/Homeopathy/homeopathy.htm).

Jennifer


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Guys, I think , that the bird is already at PHILs place as we speak, or at list under his "watchful eye" sort of speak... 

my 2 cents, hey...no slapping over the head, I have toothache 

Nell


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi everyone,



Louise brought the little one over right away, and we got to have a nice visit also.



Young not-yet-adult...looks like a pulled muscle in the Leg, or possibly a cracked bone or sprain, rather than a break.


Very sweet little Pigeon, high spirited, independant-minded...not afraid, just wants to be autonomous.


Hints of Canker...


Feathers, especially her tail and back and Wings, are all very sticky-gummy with some sort of Oil or grease...no smell to it...but very messy and sticky.


Anyway, got her started with meds...set up in a nice Cage with another recovering youngster...she looks serene and easy, alert...relaxed...


I figure we'll do meds and peace for a couple days...then do some Baths for those Feathers...maybe Sunday.


Apearently had starved a few days prior to Louise gathering her up...but she ate well once Louise had her...so...appetite's good...poops being made...does not seem to have been dehydrated.


Her weight is good, so, even though she's a little thin, she's 'solid' and strong.


Very pretty too...Orange-ish Beak...Orange Ceres...



Till next...



Phil
l v


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

I'm so glad is with you now, you and Louise are a great team


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Thank you Phil , for letting us know , whats cooking.
Dont we all wanna be autonomous... now and then...LOL

Nell


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for all your responses........

I brought the bird to Phil...............THANK GOD FOR PHIL!!!!!

He certainly has the real touch with this birds. The little one was very nervous and scared all day with me, but the minute Phil picked her up she just became a lump of feathers in his hands.

Phil feels that she is strong, but will need meds and some of his TLC for awhile. We got to examine her a little better and he doesn't feel that a cat got her, but either was hit by a car or God knows what else caused her injuries

I know I left her in the best possible place and care. If anyone can pull her through, it is Phil.

Her feathers are in awful shape, her tail and wing feathers are almost glued together with this gunk. It has no smell, but I know it is from the puddle of stuff under the car. I think maybe it is transmission fluid.

If Phil can get her to a point where she is stabilized and just needs to be kept indoors until she is fully recovered, I will pick her up and take her into my home and care for her until she is well enough to be released. I would like to release her back into her flock, as she is so young, and that there is 2 other birds that look almost exactly like her. They are propably her mother & father, or siblings.

If she is rendered permanently disabled and non-releasable, I will keep her as a house pet and I guess my Jack will finally have some company.

I just pray that this little one survives. She is so pretty and so sweet. Phil and I have worked together before, once with a baby that had been poisioned and another with a bird that had been shot with a pellet gun. Neither of those birds survived. I can't bear the thought of loosing another one.

Thank you Phil for always being there willing to take in another needy bird. I know that she is in the best of care with you.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

EGGcelent Phil and Louise! Thank you both so much! Please keep us posted, and definitely, Louise, if you end up with another pijjie!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise, hi everyone...




Well...she seems in really good spirits, so I decided "Lets get to the 'Bath' part-of-things..."


So we did...


She was nervous at first, then she really liked it and I know she would rather her Feathers were clean.


So...bathroom sink filled with a stout solution of tepid Water and 'Dawn'...working her Feathers between my fingers...and...

Hardly did any good at all...


I grab the bottle of 'Mane and Tail', a very good shampoo...work that in 'straight'...working Feathers between my fingers...and...


Hardly did anything at all...


Blotted her dry-ish...grabbed the Olive Oil...poured that straight on...working it in...


Hardly did anything at all...


Another round of 'Dawn'...

Etc...


Well...whatever this stuff is, 'Dawn' will not get it...Shampoos will not get it...Olive oil will not dissolve it...so...


Louise...if this is 'Transission' fluid, any chance you could find out what kind?



Seems like some sort of 'silicone' to me...


Anyway...definitely is not any conventional 'Oil' or 'Grease'...nor a petroleum-based kind.



Anyway, she was a total sweetie, was very co-operative, great attitude, for the protracted Bath efforts...and she gets it, that we BOTH want those Feathers to be clean again..! So she's willing...she's into it...


I just need to figure out what will work...





Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil...........I am concerned that non of the conventional remedies worked at removing whatever the gunk is on her.

That car which has been sitting in the driveway for over a year has been leaking what I thought to be transmission fluid. The puddle of the stuff under the car is loaded with dirt, feathers and other debris. I am going to go outside now and see if I can somehow scoop up a sample of the stuff and see if it is the consistancy and no oder as the stuff that's on the bird.

I get back to you in a little while.

Thanks Phil


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil.......The stuff that is under the car is definately not the same stuff that is on the bird. The stuff under the car, although black and dirty on top, is liquid, under the dirt it is a pinkish liquid the normal color that transmission fluid would be. It is not stickey at all.

I am thinking based upon how this stuff felt to me that it is some type of actual glue. I hate to think that this is that sticky stuff that some of the pest control/exterminators put out. I read about that stuff recently on one of the threads here relative to an exterminator. I'm going to try and find that thread.


What else could this poor little bird have gotten into??? I don't know of any type of solevent for glue that would not be toxic.

I am so worried. What to do next????


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,




Seems like a 'Silicone' to me...has that tacky-rubbery feel...maybe someone was spraying synthetic Roof-Sealer or who knows...


Anyway...hmmmmmmm...


Not a glue as such...but possibly a 'Sealer' of some kind...


It's a lot like the clear Silicone Caulking, only it has not dried.



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil........I can't find the thread about the sticky stuff. 

If this a sealant or some type of silicone, aren't both of those petroleum based products?? Could it be toxic to the bird???

Since most of the affected feathers were at the ends and not at the base of the feathers near the skin, would it be possible to trim all the feathers with a sissor. The bird would need to be homebound for quite some time, but wouldn't the feathers grow back normal in time.??? I am also concerned that the poor thing may have been trying to preen itself of this gunk and could have ingested some of this stuff.

If we can save the bird any way possible, once it is stable, I am willing to take it into my home and care for it as long as needed...........forever if that be the case.

What should we do????


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,



I will try some things...


Worse-comes-to-worse, then she'll get a big-time 'Trimming'...


She's not doing any preening...and this would not be soluable to her saliva or preen-oil anyway...if she could even get to her Preen Gland, and I do not believe she can presently...the way the Feathers are stuck-together.


'Silicone' lubricants and sealers and so on are not Petroleum based...probably, nothing that would dissolve them would be acceptable to expose her to.


I will make some inquiries...



Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, maybe you can negate the stickiness of it with simple talcum powder for the short term--just sprinkle a bunch on and work it in.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Terry always mentions "Detachol":

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/way-to-clean-up-greasy-pigeon-25857.html?highlight=Detachol

But barring having that, you might spray a little bit of WD-40 on a section and see how that might do on a single feather--you can wash it off with a soap easily enough. I've heard that the main ingredient is actually some kind of fish oil.

Pidgey


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil............I do not know how to thank you enough for all that you are doing. Phil, if I can help you in any way, please just ask.

Please keep me posted. I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight.........this little bird is weighing so heavy on my mind.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,



Oh...sleep good...she's a little Trooper, and she's doing great...she's happy to have a nice 'safe' Cage, a same-age Pal...and she wants those Feathers to be CLEAN..! So, she's very co-operative, no stress...she's very bright...she's a fast learner, to be sure...




Pidgey,


I'll try 'W-D-40' and report back...good idea..!



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thank you Pidgey for your imput. It is so appreciated.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

By mistake, I deleted the attachment of the pictures of the bird. Here they are again.

She is such a pretty little one.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Sounds like some nasty stuff to deal with if none of the things already tried got the sticky stuff off. What about Goo Gone or a similar product?

Also, I imagine the hair came off with all the bathing, but make sure there is no more hair entangled on the feet and legs.

Terry


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Terry........I have used Goo Gone on some household projects. That stuff is toxic. It is stronger than acetone. I don't think Goo Gone could be used.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

lwerden said:


> Terry........I have used Goo Gone on some household projects. That stuff is toxic. It is stronger than acetone. I don't think Goo Gone could be used.


Thanks for this info, Louise. I've never used it so didn't know.

Terry


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil.............I have been worried since last night. As soon as you have a chance, will you please let me know how the little one is doing.

Thanks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,




She looks great..!


She's got a wonderful self-posession mood...very spirited.


...pretty even with those Feathers being gunky.


She's putting weight l-i-g-h-t-l-y on the injured Leg now...so, all in all, looking quite 'normal' even...prefering to mostly stand, but comfortable to lay down elegantly also.


Eating good...pooping good.


I had to leave out early today...just got back...so, she'll get her 'pill' now for today.


Warming formula for others who await 'Mr.Tube'...



The washings yesterday did cut down on things sticking to her...so that's good.


She was quite the 'dust-magnet' and or any stray puff of down or other thing would go way out of it's way to adhere to her Feathers...so the Baths helped that part anyway.


Well...chow-time for the 'tubesters' and pill-time for her now...so, I best get on it...


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

She's got a looooooooooooooooooooooong Beak..!


Such a sweetie...


Did her Pill-Time...went well...so that's done.


Her Crop is nice and FULL from Seed-eating during the day today...she feels strong and solid...


I never cease to be impressed with how each one is very much an individual.


Gave her her Pill...tube fed two other ones...each a totally different personality...each one their own Bird to-be-sure.


Nap-time for me..! I'm a big sleepy-head...



Love...


Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil...........So happy and relieved that she is doing so well. I know she is not totally out of danger,but it seems that she is starting to stabilize. So glad she is starting to put some weight on the foot. Hopefully this is just a bad sprain and nothing broken.

I had a PM from Terry and she had an experience with a bird with glue and used the suff called "Detachol". It is a liquid medical adhesive remover and is totally non toxic. Terry said it worked great for her at the time, but it is hard to come by.

I have made some calls around town.........none of the major drug stores carry it.....I was advised by a pharmacist that it would propably be available through a medical supply house. I called a few, but unfortunately most of them only operate Mon/Fri. I found some on line, but I think the shipping time would take longer then me trying to obtain some of it here on Monday. I know you have your hands full there Phil with all the needy birds. Ideally, I would like to take her home and nurse her back to health so I can release her back into her own family flock. Let's see if I can get the adhesive remover on Monday, then I'll bring it over and see if it works. If we can get her cleaned up and as long as you feel she would be safe, I'll take her home to complete her recovery.

Thanks Phil for all you are doing.

Please keep me posted.

Regards,
Louise


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Did you ever try WD-40, Phil??

I have heard it is non-toxic and can used for many many things!

Best of everything with the little one!! Lookin' GOOD!! 

Love and Hugs to all

Shi


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> Seems like some sort of 'silicone' to me...


Is it a kind of clear, rubbery-sticky sort of stuff? Like silicone caulk? That's what some of those nasty glue traps have on them. Best way I've found so far to get that off is to just trim it off. Soaps and solvents don't touch it. I've never tried Detachol though. I can't be positive from the photos but it really looks like that glue trap stuff to me. Horrible stuff


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Everyone...........I need to know more about these glue trap things. What do they look like???? Where to people put them??? 

Maybe it is one of my neighbors trying to get rid of the birds. All the other birds could be in danger.

I need more information to go on. I am so worried for all the birds in the flock now.

Anybody know anything about this horrible thing.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

They are cardboard strips or trays with clear, sticky glue on them and come in various sizes. It's possible that someone put it down to catch mice, which I think is the most common use. But anything can get stuck of course. One website I just found said to use vegetable oil to remove the glue.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sasha008 said:


> Is it a kind of clear, rubbery-sticky sort of stuff? Like silicone caulk? That's what some of those nasty glue traps have on them. Best way I've found so far to get that off is to just trim it off. Soaps and solvents don't touch it. I've never tried Detachol though. I can't be positive from the photos but it really looks like that glue trap stuff to me. Horrible stuff



Hi Sasha,



Yes...is 'shiney'...sears thing...and is tacky...about like clear Silicone caulking would be...only this has not dried...and no Acetyl Acid odor...


Will try a little 'W-D-40' test in a little while...



Her Feet and Legs were clean...pretty much anyway...light traces was about it. Otherwise, the long Wing Feathers, her under-wing areas, sides, and back, underside, and Tail were all pretty saturated with it...Crop and front too...this would have prevented flying in itself...since the Feathers can not spread or seperate.






Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

This all makes sense now. This poor little bird ran into one of these glue trap things.......got stuck.........and struggled to get itself off of the horrible thing......that's how it hurt it's foot. That is also why this glue is stuck to just the tail feathers, the belly and the long wing feathers.

I hate people that would use such an inhumane thing for whatever creature they whey trying to get rid of.

I pray to God that there are no other birds that are stuck and are being left to die.

This has to be close to my house, because there was no way this bird could have flown away once it was free from the glue. She had to hobble and drag itself back to my house.

I am starting to feel awful about this. Might I have brought this upon the birds because I have been feeding them.??? I haven't had any complaints from the neighbors, but maybe I am ultimately responsible by feeding them here and causing someone to do this.

Oh God.......Please let the birds be allright.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...I meant 'smeary' ( lots of bad keys...hard to trpe..)


Smeary...very like how Silicone 'Caulking' is...only unlike the Caulking...this stuff does not seem to have dried.



Phil
l v


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

Louise, you can't blame yourself. It's not your fault! Like I said, someone probably put it out to catch mice, or rats. It's still a horrible thing of course, but some people may not realize that any animal could get stuck on those traps, not just the ones they're trying to remove. And there are other more humane ways to get rid of rodents. Ways that won't hurt them or other species in the process. We don't even know for certain that's what happened to the bird


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

'WD-40' does not appear to losen or dissolve the offending material.


Was a good idea though...



I will go to the Store tomorrow, and get Mineral Oil...and a different kind of Vegetable Oil...and try those...



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil...........It didn't surprise me that the 
WD 40 didn't work.

I've been doing alot of research on these glue traps and also adhesive removers.

You can try the Mineral/Vegetable oil, but I have also seen that maybe Baby Oil might work. The oil remedies primiarily work to loosen the animals from the traps or strips. I don't think it will work to remove the residue.

I think our birds only hope it the "Detachol" stuff. I will be trying my damnest on Monday to get my hands on this stuff. In all the research I have done, that seems to be the only thing that works, other than actually cutting the feathers off the bird.

Please hold off of any trimming until I get the Detachol and we give that a try.

As long as the bird is stable, eating, drinking and pooping well, poor little thing will just have to be patient until we can get her clean.

Thanks Phil for all that you are doing!!!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> But barring having that, *you might spray a little bit of WD-40 on a section and see how that might do on a single feather*--you can wash it off with a soap easily enough. I've heard that the main ingredient is actually some kind of fish oil.
> 
> Pidgey





mr squeaks said:


> *Did you ever try WD-40, Phil??
> I have heard it is non-toxic and can used for many many things!*
> 
> Shi





pdpbison said:


> *'WD-40' does not appear to losen or dissolve the offending material.*
> 
> *Was a good idea though...*
> 
> ...


Just a little FEI (For everyone's information) 
On the back of the WD-40 can it states, as one of the dangers:
*Breathing Hazard*
Use only in a well ventilated area. Do not Breathe vapor or spray mist.
DELIBERATE OR DIRECT INHALATION OF VAPOR OR SPRAY MIST MAY BE HARMFUL OR FATAL.

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

lwerden said:


> Phil...........It didn't surprise me that the
> WD 40 didn't work.
> 
> I've been doing alot of research on these glue traps and also adhesive removers.
> ...





Hi Louise,



Oh yeah...I'm in no hurry to 'trim' anything...



If nothing else, 'Time' would do it on it's own anyway.



Phil
l v


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## Lambish (Oct 19, 2008)

She sounds so very darling.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Just a little FEI (For everyone's information)
> On the back of the WD-40 can it states, as one of the dangers:
> *Breathing Hazard*
> Use only in a well ventilated area. Do not Breathe vapor or spray mist.
> ...




Yes...same as with any Aerosol.


One would make sure the Bird is safe from breathing in any of the mist or 'fog' or fumes of 'spraying'.


I was careful...sprayed her Tail outside...walking back in immediately.



Phil
l v


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi guys

I was working back in Arizona on Mourning Dove , which had same thing, my hubby is a 

guy, which works with glues and silicones and stuff. Back then i was afraid to use anything besides know to use stuff. We had same result with w-40, did not help. So then my hubby said to try lamp-oil, or kerosene. At that point i was desperate to do anything, so we did. That was the only stuff which did take it off the rubbery , glue deposit from the feathers. Is based on petroleum, but is not so thick as mineral oil is. Dont use mineral oil , go for a lamp -oil. HOMEDEPOT. Then wash with soap.

Nell


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I knew you'd be careful, Phil. It never even occurred to me that you'd wantonly envelop the bird in a cloud of the stuff.

Pidgey


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

PS. GOO GONE is based on petrolium also, not on acetone. We never did use it, but should work my hubby said .

Nell


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I have the Goo Gone in front of me. It says: Contains petroleum distillates. 
Avoid contact with skin. Use in well ventilated are. Flammable, do not use near heat, sparks or flame.

Do you think that this would be safe to use on a pigeon???


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

lwerden said:


> I have the Goo Gone in front of me. It says: Contains petroleum distillates.
> Avoid contact with skin. Use in well ventilated are. Flammable, do not use near heat, sparks or flame.
> 
> Do you think that this would be safe to use on a pigeon???


I would wait and use the product that you know will work.If the Pigeon is kept warm, she will be ok until you find some. The warnings are worrisome.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I did a little research on Goo Gone. 

Here are the actual chemical ingredients:Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent 
Solvent naphtha, petroleum, heavy aliphatic 064742-96-7 
Terpenes and Terpenoids, type citrus oil 


I don't like the sound of the "T" words. Sounds like terpentine in citrus oil to me.

I am still going to find the Detachol tomorrow.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What about something really simple and safe? Our member, Lady Tarheel, has posted a number of times about using Chinchilla Dust to cause the sticky stuff to pill/ball up and then just pick it off by hand. Might be a bit tedious, but it might work. AND, it might not work as the bird has already been "washed" a few times.

Terry


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

like i said i did use lamp -oil on the Mourning Dove and that was the only thing which did work. The bird was fine >I think that the same warning you would find on the back of the container we were using. 

I know is working and I know bird was doing okay.She was released 5 months later with the bunch of others, I did not see any harm done . Her fethears were a bit lighter after, but she got the color back with time, after preening with her oils.

Nell


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

corvid said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I was working back in Arizona on Mourning Dove , which had same thing, my hubby is a
> 
> ...





Hi Nell, all...



Any aeromatic Solvent, or de-facto Aeromatic solvent, will tend to produce chemical burns on skin, or, to be readily absorbed in skin, to enter the system of the patient.



Kerosene...'Lighter Fluid', Jet Fuel...all work very well as 'Solvents' for cleaning many things, but...they must be kept off of the Bird's skin...and their odor/fumes must not be breathed by the Bird.



Acetone, Benzine, MEK, Lacquer-Thinner...these or others would probably dissolve the 'goo'...however, their fumes could be dangerous for the Bird.


Kerosene hasrelatively little fumes compared to many other Solvents.



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Terry............That sounds like a good idea, if the glue was localized to one small area.

With this poor bird it would be more than tedious.........it would be a monumental task. You have no idea how much of this gooey mess is involved. It is her entire chest & belly.
All of her entire tail, and all of the long wing feathers. It is really pittiful to see.

I am going for the "Detachol" first as it is safest means of removal. You said it worked great for you, but it is hard to come by. Hopefully I can obtain it locally when all the medical supplies houses open up tomorrow. If not, I have found three sources that would ship it to me.

I spoke to Phil thisafternoon and the little one is doing great. Her foot is getting better and she is starting to stand and put weight on it. She is eating, drinking and pooping really good. She is just one gooey mess of feathers.

I am striving for the best possible outcome for this bird..........she is a sweetheart. I can't wait to bring her home. I already know it is going to be real difficult to release her when the time comes.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> I knew you'd be careful, Phil. It never even occurred to me that you'd wantonly envelop the bird in a cloud of the stuff.
> 
> Pidgey




Lol...


I know you know...but was just addressing a wider audiencce...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

lwerden said:


> I did a little research on Goo Gone.
> 
> Here are the actual chemical ingredients:Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
> Solvent naphtha, petroleum, heavy aliphatic 064742-96-7
> ...





I would not risk a Bird being exposed to the fumes of Naphtha...


Pure genuine 'Turpentine' in low concentrations would be fine for a Pigeon...and probably for any Bird...but not if too 'heavy' of course.

Synthetic or derivitive elements of Turpentine...I would be leery of.


Citrus Oils...Hmmmmm...



I will try squeezing some Grapefuit peel onto a Feather...and see...




Phil
l v


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

hey here is wider audience back

nd Im sticking by what I said, been there, done that

Nell


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> What about something really simple and safe? Our member, Lady Tarheel, has posted a number of times about using Chinchilla Dust to cause the sticky stuff to pill/ball up and then just pick it off by hand. Might be a bit tedious, but it might work. AND, it might not work as the bird has already been "washed" a few times.
> 
> Terry



Might help...


The goo-stuff is very saturating...'in' the Feathers, so to speak...



Paint Thinner aka 'Mineral Spirits', is very close to Kerosene...


Also...I have a Bottle of Ethyl Alcohol...


I might try these...



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

corvid said:


> hey here is wider audience back
> 
> nd Im sticking by what I said, been there, done that
> 
> Nell




I have Kerosene...will try a little...



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil.............Please don't try any of these things on the bird tonight. I don't want to take any unnecessary risks........no knowing what could or could not be potentially harmful. The little one is already been stressed enough. Please juist let her rest and tomorrow we will try the Detachol.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

According to the following link (see Section 3- Composition / Information on Ingredients) solvent naphtha petroleum, medium aliphatic are the main ingredients of WD-40.
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd472196384.pdf

Cindy


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Guys we are not talking bating a bird in a bath tub. We talking putting needed amount of it on a piece of a rug, so the rug is damp enough and going over the gluey feathers, fallowing the feather from up down. Avoiding the face.Although I had to do it on the tap of the head too. You are not touching the skin, cause your rug is NOT DRIPPING WITH THE SUBSTANCE. Doing outside not in closed room. Then bathing in the soap bath.
Nell


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

corvid said:


> Guys we are not talking bating a bird in a bath tub. We talking putting needed amount of it on a piece of a rug, so the rug is damp enough and going over the gluey feathers, fallowing the feather from up down. Avoiding the face.Although I had to do it on the tap of the head too. You are not touching the skin, cause your rug is NOT DRIPPING WITH THE SUBSTANCE. Doing outside not in closed room. Then bathing in the soap bath.
> Nell



Yes...


This would be the way.




Anyway...

"Leg" issue...


I decided to examine the Leg more closely, and there is a deep Bruise-Contusion below the 'knee'...upper Tibiotarsus...having also a small abrasion there.

Dark dis-coloring there and also along the side of the lower chest area...so...possibly she'd had a bad landing onto something.



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

lwerden said:


> Phil.............Please don't try any of these things on the bird tonight. I don't want to take any unnecessary risks........no knowing what could or could not be potentially harmful. The little one is already been stressed enough. Please juist let her rest and tomorrow we will try the Detachol.




Hi Louise,



Looks like "Detachol" is just regular Paint Thinner with a little Fragrance added...


http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...02.pdf+Detachol+MSDS&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us



Please don't worry...


I'm not going to do anything rash or foolish.



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...



Tried 'Paint Thinner' aka 'Mineral Spirits', and it worked pretty good!


Did her Tail, and all the major Wing Feathers...saturated a small folded Cloth, squeezing-wiping each Feather along it's length, fifteen times or so...


You could definitely 'feel' the difference in gummy-resistance going away...

Most of these Feathers were 'glued' together lengthwise anyway, so...seperating each one...getting one-at-a-time.


So...did that...followed by a rigorous Shampoo-Bath...I feel pretty satisfies with the progress.


Once she's dried off I'll snap a picture or two...



Yippeee!


MUCH much better now...



Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Phil.............I am so happy that you had good results . I was very scared about the mineral spirits/paint thinner, but being it was clearly the same as using the Detachol without the fragrance.........it worked. Thank God!!!

I can't wait to see her pictures.

I am a little bit concerned about her leg and the bruise on the chest. Do you think it is anything really serious.????


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There was a post a while ago, where someone was trying to get this stuff from the glue traps off a little mouse who had gotten stuck in it. They used baby oil, or mineral oil to get it off. It worked.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise, all...




I got some Baby Oil...

I'll try it tomorrow...might be good for the Body-Feathers, and also going over the long Feathers again.


Too chilly now...for any procedures needing follow-up Shampoos or Baths.


Leg injury should heal up fine...just needs time and ease.





Phil
l v


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil............

Happy to hear you don't think the leg injury is much of an issue.

This little one has been through so much.........she needs time and rest to heal and recover. She will certainly get lots of TLC and pampering once I can get her home with me to complete her recovery.

I am ever so thankful for all your dedication, time, work and energy to insure this little one's survival.

Talk to you later.........


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

lwerden said:


> This little one has been through so much.........she needs time and rest to heal and recover.
> *She will certainly get lots of TLC and pampering once I can get her home with me to complete her recovery.*


Louise,
I know how excited you must be to begin doting over her. 

It sounds like the feather issue is the main issue going on now. You'll do fine caring for her.  

Please do keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Who knows...maybe she will end up being the companion for Jack you have been hoping will come your way. I know you will enjuy taking care of her.
I can hardly wait to hear what Jack thinks about having another Pigeon in the house.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thanks Charis & Cindy...........for the encouragement. I am confident I will be able to give her all the love & care she will need to complete her recovery. I nursed Jack from a baby with much more serious injuries. I am prepared to keep her as long as required....if that is to complete a full molt....or........forever if need be.

I know she is feral.........has her own flock right here..........and if it's meant to be that she rejoin them.....she will be released when it is completely safe to do so.

I'm really very curious how Jack will react.......as he is totally scared to death of the other pigeons when he is outside in his cage and they come to visit. I am sure he will adjust........and I will introduce them to eachother in a very precautious and limited manner. Little Girl has a possible canker issue that needs to be completely resolved before any introductions anyway.

Can't wait to get her home...............hopefully.......later today.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I, too, hope that you will be able to keep her, Louise.

I have been doing a bit of research on the internet and have found that some people use glue traps specifically for pigeons...poor little birds their "sin" is just being there!

So often I am ashamed of being a human being.

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> I, too, hope that you will be able to keep her, Louise.
> 
> I have been doing a bit of research on the internet and have found that some people use glue traps specifically for pigeons...poor little birds their "sin" is just being there!
> 
> ...


Cynthia...you should be proud... you are a fine example of our species...it's the glue strip manufacturers and users of the product that should be ashamed.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

lwerden said:


> * *I am confident I will be able to give her all the love & care she will need to complete her recovery.*
> 
> ** *Can't wait to get her home...............hopefully.......later today*.


* I am as well. 

** Please DO keep us posted.

Cindy


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I am so excited..............I am on my way over to Phil's to get the little bird. Phil feels that she is well enough that I can take over from here on to complete her recovery.

It's absolutely amazing what Phil has been able to in such a short time.

My everlasting gratitude goes to Phil for saving this little one.

I'll post some pictures later on.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great!
I can hardly wait to see some pictures.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, it sure is nice of you to help both the pigeon and Louise but three days is not very long to see too much in the way of results from removing the grease/glue. It can take a long time for that stuff to completely be removed.

Louise, since you are getting it back, you may want to try the chinchilla dust because it really works. It doesn't matter how large an area the grease/glue covers. You sprinkle the dust on the feathers and work it in, in the direction the feathers grow, then you can take a soft toothbrush or cloth and keep brushing the feathers. The grease/glue will pill up and come off. It may take several applications along with baths to do the job.

One thing to always keep in mind when you have a bird that is covered in grease/glue. It makes the feathers damp and causes the bird to stay cold. It is vital that you keep it in a warm environment, away from drafts. Use a blow dryer to help dry them off though they are still often very damp feeling. Keep the dryer set on low and far enough away to prevent burns/over-heating.

Frankly, I'm not sure this was from a glue trap because most of the birds we have taken in that were caught in them had the glue removed with the Dawn baths and chinchilla dust without much trouble other than needing numerous baths. We never had to use anything like kerosene or anything else.

The worse case we ever had was a fledgling finch who was covered from beak to tail in the stuff. It was in its eyes, nostrils, just everywhere. The vet was worried that it had inhaled the stuff which would prohibit it from being able to fly extended periods because of decreased lung capacity. However, after numerous baths, he was good as new even though he lost most of the feathers on his body for a period of time.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Phil, it sure is nice of you to help both the pigeon and Louise but three days is not very long to see too much in the way of results from removing the grease/glue. It can take a long time for that stuff to completely be removed.
> 
> Louise, since you are getting it back, you may want to try the chinchilla dust because it really works. It doesn't matter how large an area the grease/glue covers. You sprinkle the dust on the feathers and work it in, in the direction the feathers grow, then you can take a soft toothbrush or cloth and keep brushing the feathers. The grease/glue will pill up and come off. It may take several applications along with baths to do the job.
> 
> ...


Maggie, where would one find Chinchilla dust? and what would the approximate cost be?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I just can't BELIEVE that somebody would slaughter a Chinchilla, dry out the carcass and make dust out of it! How inhumane! Oh, what's this world coming to... !?!

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

LOL, Pidgey! 

Charis, you can get it at most pet stores like Petsmart. We have had our bag for years (keep it frozen) so can't remember the price but I expect under $5.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> I just can't BELIEVE that somebody would slaughter a Chinchilla, dry out the carcass and make dust out of it! How inhumane! Oh, what's this world coming to... !?!
> 
> Pidgey


 Pidgey!


Thanks Maggie. I'd never heard of it before. I'll check it out. Sounds like a good thing to have on hand.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Lol...who Knew!*

http://www.rabbitstop.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ChinchillaDustandBathHomes


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi all..........

Little girl and I just got home. I must say Phil did a great job with her........she looks so much better then when I last saw her........but........she still needs alot of work with the glue and alot of care to get her back to normal.

I have to get her settled into her new house......give her her pills.......then I willl post some pictures and elaborate more about what I intend to do next.

She is so..........pretty.

I thank Phil for saving her.

All opinions and advice is greatly appreciated.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Phil, it sure is nice of you to help both the pigeon and Louise but three days is not very long to see too much in the way of results from removing the grease/glue. It can take a long time for that stuff to completely be removed.
> drafts.



I never said otherwise...


I never said I was through...


I had the Bird four days...so far, I was able to get the Feathers around 90 percent 'clean' with further attentions slated.

Bird had Canker, I was treating that.


Injured Leg...I was dealing with and monitoring that.


I would have done quite a few things in the days to come, to continue with the Bird's recovery and monitoring their Health.


Louise wanted to take things from here.



What do you want me to do?


Please....get your facts straight.



Phil
l v


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Phil, I think you misunderstood me somehow. No criticism was intended towards you whatsoever and I'm sorry what I said was interpreted that way. 

Pax, my friend?


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

OK........before anyone gets any wrong ideas or makes any assumptions, here are the facts.........

I brought the bird to Phil, because the bird at the time was in serious trouble. I was totally lost and had no idea what to do, and I thought that he would be the one to best diagnosis her and determine what the best course of treatment would be.

Phil was kind and generous enough to offer all his assistance to me to save the bird. At the time when I brought the bird to Phil, I stated that as soon as she was stable I would be taking her home and would care for her until the time she was healthy enough to be released back into her own flock.

Over the past four days Phil and I have been in constant communication......He has put an immense amount of time and energy to get the bird stable. His dedication and devotion has resulted in the bird being well enough for me to take over her care.

I found this little one...........I feel responsible for her.......also I do want to be able to have more hands on knowledge in treating these birds as I will undoubtedly be seeing more injured birds as I feed a feral flock of approx 100 birds every morning in my driveway.

I could never thank Phil enough for all his help. Phil did more than his part and it's my turn to take responsibility for this birds care.

Phil would have kept the bird indefinately if I had asked him to. This was my request and decision. Phil has given me explicit instructions on how to proceed with the birds care.......and I will follow them. I know if I run into any trouble Phil is just a phone call away.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Here are pictures I have taken tonight after I got her setteled into her new home. She does look much better than before, but she is far from being totally void of the glue and her foot is still weak, although she is putting some weight on it. Her toes tend to ball up when she is moved,but will stand normally if you spread her toes for her.

Phil estimates that she is approximately 3 months old. She is so pretty & small. She appears to be very scared and nervous. I guess she needs a little time to adjust to her new surroundings.

Phil had her on medication for canker........he had given her 3 treatments and I gave her another tonight........final and 5th treatment tomorrow. I checked inside her beak.....it looks clear......there is no odor.

There is a cut on her upper leg where it attaches to the body....... it appears to be healing.......it also looks badly bruised in that area. There are no signs of any infection...........however I did apply some neosporin to the wound.

I did do a few seed pops with her following her medication, but I have not seen her eat or drink yet. She has pooped a few times.........last one seemed a bit watery, but still formed.

Her biggest problem is the glue. Although a significant amount has been removed......there is still quite a bit remaining. The immediate plan......as Phil has instructed me......will begin tomorrow. First I am going to work "baby oil" into her feathers and let her stay with that on for a few hours. Then it will be followed with a Johnsons Baby Shampoo Bath. I don't see how baby oil can do any harm.......so will try that. 

I will be going to the store tomorrow and try to find the "Chinchilla Dust".....does anyone know if Petsmart or Petco carry it???? This glue is going to take many, many more treatments before it is totally removed. 

Phil estimates that she should be kept confined for atleast 3 weeks.......then I will allow her out in a confined room to see how she will handle a little flying........and then we'll see where we go from there.

To all the more experienced members................I can take constructive criticism.........I don't want to make any mistakes with this little one. Please tell me what you think.

She is being kept in a warm room, free from any drafts.

Thank for any and all advice.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

*Here She Is..........*

The new and imroved version...........still a work in progress


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Louise I dont see any pictures there

Nell


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

She is putting her leg in such position, that i think the hip is the problem and curling the toes tells me about nerve involvement from or around the hip area. If she did pull alignment there, then will come back on its own with the time, as from the pics dosent look too bad (i mean i do not think You will do her any better by wrapping her hip to body, not in her situation). Louise she looks much much better then first pics and now (well maybe later) You can cuddle her
As far as eating goes, if she will not do it for You and was not doing for Phil, rehydrate her first and then, You know the drill, 1/4 of normal thickness of Kaytee, next 1/2 thickness, and third feeding full thickness of formula. All feding only 3/4 of the crop capacity.
Nell


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Louise and Phil .. great job! I think this little one will be OK. It's just going to take some time. Try not to let your eagerness to get him/her all pristine cause a problem with stress from so much handling and bathing. Some of them take to it very well, and others don't. Phil can advise how amenable this bird is to the handling and treatment from what he's done, and Louise will find out for herself. I'm just saying don't let the obsession for clean put this bird in a compromised condition.

As to the leg/foot .. it probably will self resolve if there is limited movement and a soft substrate which has been provided.

Obviously, the bird needs nutrition and if not eating on its own, then you have to feed it.

JMO, but it's time to step back a little and let this bird have a chance to settle in again at Louise's place and see how it goes.

As my beloved Dr. Lee would say, "Let us see what is going to happen" .. meaning .. give the bird a chance while keeping a close eye on things. Dr. Lee's "less is more" approach has proven to be more accurate than not over the years.

Again .. JMO

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

She's looking good, Louise, and she sure is pretty! We sure wish her all the very best! 

I'm glad you have Phil available for advice. Some of his novel methods (e.g. Napolean Hand Nest) can do wonders!

Just out of curiosity (and NOT believing a word Pidgey said ), WHAT is Chincilla Dust? I've heard this product mentioned before on the site. Darn! Wish I remembered when I had Aussie. Luckily for her, the Dawn baths worked quite well! 

Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi and her gang


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> Just out of curiosity (and NOT believing a word Pidgey said ), WHAT is Chincilla Dust?
> 
> Shi and her gang



Louise, she looks very good. She is quite beautiful. Phil did a wonderful job of getting so much goop off her. I'm pretty sure you can get the dust at any pet store.

Shi, chinchilla dust is a very, very fine powder. I found this link - check out the short video in it of a chinchilla dusting. They love the stuff!

http://exoticpets.about.com/od/chinchillas/a/chindustbath.htm


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi all..........Little Girl Thank God made it through the night. I am so very nervous and concerned with her.

I have rethought her whole condition.........and concluded that it is best for me to prioritize her conditions.

The glue and the feather issue.....although far from being resolved........I am going to leave alone for the time being. This certainly is not life threatening at this point...it doesn't matter if she looks dirty right now.........the feathers/glue/baths can all be addressed later when I feel she is stronger and has more time to adjust to her new surroundings.

Her leg & foot issue according to a few opinions here should hopefully resolve itself in due course. She is now standing on both legs, but I have to spread open her toes as the minute she moves or lifts that leg the toes go back into a little ball. I know I have read on different threads that you can tape the foot down to a little square cardboard shoe to help resolove this, but I will not attempt that without further advise from you all.

She did about 5 poops during the night. The are mostely formed, but seem very soft.

MY NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH HER IS HER WEIGHT............She is so thin. I do not have a scale to weigh her, but her keel bone is so very obvious. I don't know how many days she was out there before I found her........but it appears that starvation was starting to set in.

I think she is eating minimal seed on her own. I can't really guage how much she is eating as everytime she goes to the front of the cage to eat if she sees me she automatically runs to the back of the cage in the corner.


So........what I have decided to do is supplement her feeding with some Kaytee formula.
I will start with a lighter consistancy of about 10CC and then see how it passes through her system. I will increase the consistancy if this works well and feed her by hand propably 3 times a day.

Experienced members..............comments please!!!!


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Great approach !! Nutritions and calories.

Nell


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

HI LOUISE...

Just my 2 cents regarding weight. WoeBeGone is a 2008 pij. Don't know her exact date but I gave her a June/July BD (Cancer) due to her very laid back disposition (so far).

When I got her, she only weighed 191 grams! After 3 weeks with served meals, including goodies such as additional Safflowers, Hemp, powered Vits over her food along with some "other" bird goodies, she weighed 225 grams!

Providing LIttle Girl does not have any other issues internally going on, I am assuming a good diet and time will do the trick! Sure hope so! All of us are sending HEALING LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES! 

Thanks, Maggie! Appreciate the link! 

Love and Hugs

Shi and the gang


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

She is such a pretty little thing Louise, I am certain that she will thrive under your care.

Are you going to keep her? I don't know how long it will take her to recover her waterproofing after the gunk is removed, so she will be with you for some time. I hope you will keep her, she deserves a good life.

Cynthia


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Cynthia.............I know it is going to take quite a long time for this bird to heal & recover. I am prepared to keep her for the long term. When she is 100% healthy if she does express a desire to be free and does not seem content........it will propably be very difficult........but I will release her into her flock.........otherwise........she does have a new forever home.

I honestly don't think any of this can be determined until months from now.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

lwerden said:


> .................
> 
> MY NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH HER IS HER WEIGHT............She is so thin. I do not have a scale to weigh her, but her keel bone is so very obvious. I don't know how many days she was out there before I found her........but it appears that starvation was starting to set in.
> 
> ...


Hi Louise

When I found my MiniPidge (PMV pigeon) she weighed only 210 grams. Very poor for a reasonable size hen. After Cynthia had tube fed her formula for a couple of weeks, I took her home and fed her twice a day. Initially, I gave her frozen peas and corn, thawed in warm water, so as not to tax her digestive system too much, then added small peanuts and various bits from the pigeon mix. All three I currently have got the same treatment, reducing to once a day when I could see they were gaining some weight without a morning feed, and then to letting 'em look after their own feeding. Mini is now 317 grams, which is satisfactory as far as I'm concerned, but it did take time (had her since July). Admittedly, these birds are different to your case, as they had PMV and Mini simply could not pick up food for a while, but all three were very underweight when I took them in even though the others were not as bad as Mini in the severity of their symptoms. I also gave them a vitamin supplement a couple of days a week, and then calcium supplements as they were inside and not getting a lot of direct sunlight. 

John


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

*Poop Picture*

Little Girl did these three good sized poops between the hours of 9:00AM and 12Noon.............this was by what amount of seed she had eaten on her own. I have not given any Kaytee formula as yet......I want to make sure the crop is empty.

Poops look pretty good to me.................Opinions please.....Thank you


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Looks pretty good to me.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They look very good.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Looks like a nice, normal functioning system with such poops

John


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

those are some great lookin poops there!......oh only on PT, we all understand how nice poops can make someones day.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Louise,
Whatever you're doing, continue doing it. 
Those are super looking 'poops'. 
Looks like she's eating & drinking fine. 

Cindy


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thanks for all the positive poop ratings............I have removed the dish of seeds from her cage and have just left water in for now. When I am completely sure that the crop is empty I am going to give her 10CC kaytee formula as an evening feeding along with her final dose of the canker medication. 

See seems a little less fearful as the day has gone on..........She is really a little sweetheart. She is standing on her leg with the toes open for longer periods of time.

All and all.........I think she is doing well.

Thanks again to all for your support.......advice.......and for just being there.

Will update later tonight.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Louise,

You can supplement with formula even if she has some seeds in her crop (I did this per vet's instructions for my crop fistula bird; there was no reason he could see why formula and seeds could not be in the crop at the same time). 

Jennifer


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jenfer said:


> Louise,
> 
> You can supplement with formula even if she has some seeds in her crop (I did this per vet's instructions for my crop fistula bird; there was no reason he could see why formula and seeds could not be in the crop at the same time).
> 
> Jennifer


Yes Louise, you can do that.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi All...........Just a quick update on Little Girl.

She had a good night............is eating and drinking plenty.........and pooping more and more.......poops all look good............did about 10 poops overnight.......so I feel reasonably certain her system is returning to function normal.

Foot and leg are still are still in question, but I know that will take much more time to resolve.

Dirty feathers.........but she is still beautiful...........will stay dirty until I feel confident she is adjusted and stable enough to start some baths.

Regards to all.........


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad the little one is doing so well. Keep us updated, and more pics.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

lwerden said:


> Hi All...........Just a quick update on Little Girl.
> 
> * *She had a good night............is eating and drinking plenty.........*and pooping more and more.......poops all look good............did about 10 poops overnight.......so I feel reasonably certain her system is returning to function normal.
> 
> ...


* Many thanks for the wonderful update on Little Girl, Louise. 

** When you feel she's ready to proceed with feather cleaning, I would suggest sticking to the good ol' Dawn method. 

Looking forward to more updates & of course, pictures. 

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> When I got her, she only weighed 191 grams! After 3 weeks with served meals, including goodies such as additional Safflowers, *Hemp*, powered Vits over her food along with some "other" bird goodies, she weighed 225 grams!
> 
> Love and Hugs
> 
> Shi and the "Oh, WOW, DUDE!" gang


How'd you serve the hemp? As leaves for eating or rolled... ?

Pidgey


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