# Clear Watery Droppings



## Xerxes

Hello everyone!

I am new here, so please bear with me.

I'm wondering if some of you can help me with one of my pigeons. She has severe diarrhea. She was purchased last June 22, 2014 with her brother, which is healthy. They stayed in a box for 6 hours when I went back home since I bought them while on a business trip. The seller said that they are about three or four months old and haven't bred.

Her poop is very watery with a small amount of feces in the middle. The liquid is clear. There is no blood or anything. Just plenty of clear liquid with some small green feces(no white color). I noticed that she is drinking so much more than her brother. They are German Beauty Homers, which means they are larger, thus the watery poop causes the cage(plywood flooring) to be wet all the time. I have to clean it every morning and evening because it makes the floor slippery and smelly. They both eat a lot. But after eating, she puffs up all the time. She is kind of thin at the moment. Well, thinner than her brother. I'm worried it will worsen. I live in a province in the Philippines so we don't have a local bird vet. The available medicine is for fighting cocks, which is very popular here in our country.

I feed them pigeon pellet mixed with GMP3(I assume this pellet feed is for fighting cocks) because the seller said it is what he is feeding them. Before feeding, I always give them fresh water in the morning and afternoon. I cannot isolate her because I only have 1 cage. I just hope her brother doesn't get sick too. If you can give me some tips on how to take care of her and what medication to administer. Specifically, the dosage and frequency. Thank you in advance!

-Xerxes


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## AndreiS

She may not like pellets, give her a seed mix or at least some wheat.

If she is puffed up, it means she loses heat and must be put on a heated pad and protected from air drafts. You can put a cardboard box upside-down (with the open side toward the ground) over the bird staying on the electric pad to provide thermic and draft isolation.

I have a pigeon that makes watery droppings since I rescued her a half of year ago. I made her lab analyses and found nothing else but some e-coli in the normal level but your bird must have something, if she's puffed up, maybe a bacterial infection, coccidia (most probable) or canker.


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## hollywoodlou

I would treat for coccidia for 3 days with (Baycox) and Ronidazole for canker for 5 days those two products can be given together I would also worm with Moxidectin. You would you have the most common problems covered it is a good idea to do this to all your new birds 3 or 4 times a year


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## Skyeking

*Severe diarrhea should be treated as above, however for the new bird it could be a simply case of not having enough good gut bacteria due to stress. You can get some probiotics or you can also put organic apple cider vinegar in the water. (1tablespoon per gallon) Once the gut is PH balanced and the bird has enough good gut bacteria the poops should firm up, if not seek out a good qualified avian vet or a pigeon rehabber.

Why not get them on a pigeon seed diet which provides a balance profile of nutrients, I'm not sure what kind of minerals and vitamins are in those pellets but it might be too much, or not balanced. 

I have treated a pigeon with severe diarrhea and took a few days but a good kefir cleared that out, but you have to make sure the bird always eats enough and drinks plenty.*


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## Jass SamOplay

Hi Xerxes,
Welcome to PT. Congrats on your new pets!
Please post some pics of the droppings after changing their diet to a suitable one. Pigeons diet may contain pellets but only upto 5-8% pellets. The artificial colors used in pellets aren't good for pigeons.
If she is eating satisfactorily then okay unless handfeed her. How much does she eats per day? Try giving probiotics and electrolytes in water.
I think your bird has picked up pmv.


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## Xerxes

Thank you all for the reply!

I had trouble posting replies. Been trying since last week.

Anyway, I haven't treated her yet. I'm thinking that what she needs is probiotics based on your posts. What is the most common probiotic that I can find in a store? And how would I give it to her?

Thanks!


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## Xerxes

Here are some of the images I took. Sorry it's not that clear.


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## Skyeking

Xerxes said:


> Thank you all for the reply!
> 
> I had trouble posting replies. Been trying since last week.
> 
> Anyway, I haven't treated her yet. I'm thinking that what she needs is probiotics based on your posts. What is the most common probiotic that I can find in a store? And how would I give it to her?
> 
> Thanks!


Any kind of human probiotic in the refrigerator section will do, in capsule or powder form. You can also use PLAIN, unflavored, no fat yogurt or kefir, which works. Fage 0% is a good yogurt. 

For capsule you can open them and sprinkle on seed.

Pet stores may carry them for birds or animals and you can also purchase some on line.


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## AndreiS

That is not coccidia, rather bacterial infection, e-coli or salmonella.


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## Jass SamOplay

Xerxes, she is one gorgeous beauty. Love her

Has the bird been dewormed before?
Such bad droppings could also be because of worms.
Worms + stress can cause droppings like that.
If the bird is behaving otherwise fine I would definitely deworm her with broad-spectrum dewormer. Look for a dewormer that has Ivermectin+pyrantel pamoate+praziquantel in it. When you deworm,deworm all the birds at the same time.


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## Xerxes

Hi sky, how would I give her the kind of yogurt that is cream-like in consistency? Thanks!


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## Xerxes

AndreiS said:


> That is not coccidia, rather bacterial infection, e-coli or salmonella.


Thanks andrei. What do you suggest I give her?


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## Skyeking

Xerxes said:


> Hi sky, how would I give her the kind of yogurt that is cream-like in consistency? Thanks!


*See if the bird will eat in on top of her seed, or syringe it down, or use any method used to feed baby bird formula.. *


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## Xerxes

Jass SamOplay said:


> Xerxes, she is one gorgeous beauty. Love her
> 
> Has the bird been dewormed before?
> Such bad droppings could also be because of worms.
> Worms + stress can cause droppings like that.
> If the bird is behaving otherwise fine I would definitely deworm her with broad-spectrum dewormer. Look for a dewormer that has Ivermectin+pyrantel pamoate+praziquantel in it. When you deworm,deworm all the birds at the same time.


Thank you jass. I really adore her. That is why I dont want to lose her. I already gave them a dewormer for pigeons. I think it worked especially for her brother because he became very active and more solid when held. And he barely puffs up unlike his sister. You can look at a picture of him in my gallery if you want.


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## Xerxes

Skyeking said:


> *See if the bird will eat in on top of her seed, or syringe it down, or use any method used to feed baby bird formula.. *


I'll try that sky. Thanks a lot!


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## Xerxes

By the way guys, I gave her some antibiotic for 5 straight days. I think she is getting better. I can now see some white in the droppings, but still very wet. She is energetic when feeding but puffs up after. She is very thin now although she eats fine and drinks a lot. When holding her after feeding, I can feel that her crop is like full of air or liquid eventhough I saw her swallow a fair amount of feed. Unlike her brother's crop which feels solid and full of feeds. What could that mean?


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## Xerxes

Here is a picture taken this morning.


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## AndreiS

I picked today a bird with similar droppings like in last photo, the urine like an opaque white liquid and the stool green-yellow.

I gave her dewormer and metronidazole and the color changed to normal dark green and the urine became transparent. The bird show intention to eat but renounces and drinks a lot of water and the droppings are big liquid puddles with dilutes stool.

I think is possible to have too chlamydia, as has eye discharge, avoids light.


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## Xerxes

AndreiS said:


> I picked today a bird with similar droppings like in last photo, the urine like an opaque white liquid and the stool green-yellow.
> 
> I gave her dewormer and metronidazole and the color changed to normal dark green and the urine became transparent. The bird show intention to eat but renounces and drinks a lot of water and the droppings are big liquid puddles with dilutes stool.
> 
> I think is possible to have too chlamydia, as has eye discharge, avoids light.


Before treatment, my bird's droppings are like what you described. I think that whitish urine is better than clear urine. Can you update me if your bird gets better and what treatment you applied? Thanks!


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## AndreiS

Xerxes said:


> Before treatment, my bird's droppings are like what you described. I think that whitish urine is better than clear urine.


We speak about different things. You speak about urates, the (normally) white part of the droppings. I speak about urine, the (normally) transparent liquid surrounding the feces (the solid, green parts) and urates.



> Can you update me if your bird gets better and what treatment you applied? Thanks!


The bird turned very bad, drinking tons of water. I gave her two Lincospectin injections, small dose - 0.05 and 0.08 ml as she has under 200 gr. I think has salmonella. She is very dehydrated and stopped drinking water by herself, possibly because the water was too cold. Now I'm giving her warmed water every 20 minutes. Previously I gave her pea paste with the syringe + tube (boiled peas peeled and crushed, mixed with a little water and warmed). Is very weak and dizzy.


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## AndreiS

Case solved, it is wet canker, or wet canker & some bacterial stuff.

This evening I gave him metronidazole and in 10 minutes he stopped being depressed and the next dropping was relatively solid, not a huge pond of liquid.



*Yesterday*

















*This evening before giving metronidazole* - notice the huge aqueous droppings


















*This evening after giving metronidazole* - notice the solid dropping






















I don't know how relevant are, but these were other symptoms (quite probable) is not a single disease but two if not three concurrent): eye discharge, small gray-yellowish floating debris in mouth, sour smell of the mouth (possibly candida), very dehydrated and emaciated, stargazing.

I feeded him with freshly made carrot juice and peas paste. Warmed fresh carrot juice seems to have helped a lot, though is risky regarding the candida (being a sweet juice).


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## AndreiS

L.E. She died, possibly because of fungus. She agonized 1-2 hours breathing less and less.


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## Xerxes

AndreiS said:


> L.E. She died, possibly because of fungus. She agonized 1-2 hours breathing less and less.


Sorry to hear that sir. I really thought both our birds will make it. Mine is still not looking good but since it's holiday here today, I will be able to do proper treatment. I plan to handfeed her since she's very thin and is not eating enough. I'll put some probiotics and honey to the ground pellet and water mixture.


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## Xerxes

Sky, I still cant get my hands on some ACV. But I was able to buy white vinegar. Its ingredients are 100% natural fermented coconut sap vinegar and antioxidant. It says 4.5% natural acidity on the label. Is it safe to mix with their water? How much per liter should I give? 

Also, is it fine if I handfeed them some small pieces of chopped garlic? Would it still be effective? They wont drink garlic water.
Thanks!


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## Xerxes

Hello all!

I finally got my hands on some ACV. I didn't give the birds the cane vinegar because I feared it might not be good for them.

Can you guys tell me if Heinz ACV is suitable? I can't find any other brand. It says on the label that it is all natural. Table strength of 5% (50 grains) acidity. Sourced from all natural apples. Ultra-filtered to guarantee sparkling clarity. Diluted to 5% acidity and bottled at peak freshness.

How much should I give per liter and how frequent? 

Also, my bird is still suffering from severe diarrhea. But showed improvement when I force fed her. Her droppings now have some white in them, not purely clear. Which seems to tell me that her liver is now functioning well(correct me if I'm wrong). She is still pretty thin. The good news is she eats quite well now. Still drinks a lot. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Skyeking

That is not the organic apple cider vinegar, but it will do-if you can't find the organic one. It will not give quite the results of the organic apple cider vinegar.

One drop to a single bowl of water, or a tablespoon or two to a gallon of water. Start with a tablespoon and see if they will drink it.


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## Xerxes

Skyeking said:


> That is not the organic apple cider vinegar, but it will do-if you can't find the organic one. It will not give quite the results of the organic apple cider vinegar.
> 
> One drop to a single bowl of water, or a tablespoon or two to a gallon of water. Start with a tablespoon and see if they will drink it.


I will do that skye. How about the frequency? Should I give it everyday, mornings and afternoon? Too bad it is not organic. What is the advantage of the organic ACV? Thanks!


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## Skyeking

Xerxes said:


> I will do that skye. How about the frequency? Should I give it everyday, mornings and afternoon? Too bad it is not organic. What is the advantage of the organic ACV? Thanks!


*Once a day, just a couple of days a week.

Organic has what is called the "mother" in it, it has the enzymes and everything that processed and pastuerized vinegar does not have. 

http://bragg.com/products/bragg-organic-apple-cider-vinegar.html *


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## Xerxes

Skyeking said:


> *Once a day, just a couple of days a week.
> 
> Organic has what is called the "mother" in it, it has the enzymes and everything that processed and pastuerized vinegar does not have.
> 
> http://bragg.com/products/bragg-organic-apple-cider-vinegar.html *


Got it. I started giving it to them. So far nothing yet. Still very watery droppings. But at least she is eating more now. I don't need to handfeed anymore. Hopefully she recovers fully. 

I am wondering, can I add pure natural honey to their drink. If so, how much per liter and how frequent? Does anybody here include that in their program? What are the benefits? Thanks again!


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## Skyeking

Xerxes said:


> Got it. I started giving it to them. So far nothing yet. Still very watery droppings. But at least she is eating more now. I don't need to handfeed anymore. Hopefully she recovers fully.
> 
> I am wondering, can I add pure natural honey to their drink. If so, how much per liter and how frequent? Does anybody here include that in their program? What are the benefits? Thanks again!


*That is very good news that she is eating more. Give it some time, and if the poop is still watery I would not consider giving any honey. 

Is the keel/breast bone sharp? Once she regains weight she will regain strength.

Have you treated the bird with any medications, and for how long?*


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## Xerxes

Skyeking said:


> *That is very good news that she is eating more. Give it some time, and if the poop is still watery I would not consider giving any honey.
> 
> Is the keel/breast bone sharp? Once she regains weight she will regain strength.
> 
> Have you treated the bird with any medications, and for how long?*


I haven't given honey as you instructed. Poop is still watery up to now. I gave her antibiotic for 7 days. Then after 1 week, I gave her a local product for salmonella for 7 days. Again, after observing for a week with no improvement, I gave her also a local product for canker for 5 days. Giving her electrolytes in between. I also dewormed them. Thanks!


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## AndreiS

Not all problems are of microbian / parasitic nature, some are just disfunctions of the organism.

I have a bird that makes clear water droppings for 10 months and I made her anaylses and found nothing. She clearly has a disfunction as she only eats rice, but is not pathogenic.

Give birds probiotics, vitamins, medical tea (they like tea and is good for their digestion) and that will help them. I use lapacho and camomile (in the same time).

The idea is to make a bird have a robust metabolism, not to clear any disease. Some mild diseases help them become stronger, so their complete eradication is not good.


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## Xerxes

AndreiS said:


> Not all problems are of microbian / parasitic nature, some are just disfunctions of the organism.
> 
> I have a bird that makes clear water droppings for 10 months and I made her anaylses and found nothing. She clearly has a disfunction as she only eats rice, but is not pathogenic.
> 
> Give birds probiotics, vitamins, medical tea (they like tea and is good for their digestion) and that will help them. I use lapacho and camomile (in the same time).
> 
> The idea is to make a bird have a robust metabolism, not to clear any disease. Some mild diseases help them become stronger, so their complete eradication is not good.


Thanks for the insight. I am less worried now. I always thought that she had some kind of disease. When you say medicinal tea, is it the same tea for human consumption or specifically for pigeon use like Columbine tea? How much per liter should I mix in their drink? Also how often a week should I give it to them? Thanks!


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## Pigeonlover7897

*Hello guys I am new with pigeons and in a area I can’t get much food*

Is frozen peas ok for pigeon also what should I feed pigeons with babies I got grit wheat and rice also chickpeas thank you


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