# Half of my birds were slaughtered!



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I've read in the past of this happening to other people and I think "OMG, I would be devistated" and I feel so bad when I hear it happening. Well it happened and I'm devistated. I just came in from my loft, buttoning it up even tighter (which I thought it was).
I went out this morning before work to feed and when I opened the door I couldn't believe what I saw. I shut the door and had to take a deep breath - I was in total shock! (and I can't describe it). I lost about 30 birds.
I found a 4 inch round area of the mesh pried away in the top corner where it attaches to the 2x4. I'm guessing a RAT!
I don't know what else to say.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm so sorry. I've experienced that myself some years ago.
My heart just sank while I read your post.


----------



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Actually if describe "how" they were eaten we could probably find out what it was. I'm thinking raccoon myself. I don't have a loft yet, but my parents have chickens. ***** LOVE birds. If they can't get into a chicken coop, then they will eat a chicken right through the wire...one bite at a time. 

I'm so sorry about that. The raccoons will have to have power tools to get into the loft I'm building.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

The other birds haven't eaten or drank any water all day. They won't come down from the top. I'm sure their devistated also. Will they come around?
Also, my newest red saddle baby survived, but he has a gash on the side of his chest (doesn't look too deep), I just noticed it tonight. I started him on baytril. Think thats ok or is there something better?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> The other birds haven't eaten or drank any water all day. They won't come down from the top. I'm sure their devistated also. Will they come around?
> Also, my newest red saddle baby survived, but he has a gash on the side of his chest (doesn't look too deep), I just noticed it tonight. I started him on baytril. Think thats ok or is there something better?


Do you have clavamox? I would use that. 
I'm just sick...that is such an awful sight to walk in on.
They will come around and start to eat again.
Do you think the loft is safe now?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It could have been a weasel or a pack of rats.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

moonshadow said:


> Actually if describe "how" they were eaten we could probably find out what it was. I'm thinking raccoon myself. I don't have a loft yet, but my parents have chickens. ***** LOVE birds. If they can't get into a chicken coop, then they will eat a chicken right through the wire...one bite at a time.
> 
> I'm so sorry about that. The raccoons will have to have power tools to get into the loft I'm building.


The hole was only about 4 inches. And I have seen rats around the past 2 years - but I thought I had it secured.
It pulled 1 thru the hole, then apparently went back in and just slaughtered them. Mostly decapitated and heads missing. The bodies were intact. None of them eaten!!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Ermines up there will do that, too. They're horrible. My guess is that it was a larger animal than a rat. So very sorry that it happened to you!

Pidgey


----------



## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

I'm sooooooo sorry to hear that, my deepest condolences....
Jenn


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Sorry to hear this sad news, I think you may have a racoon they have paws that very much like a human hand and they are strong enough to pull the wire back to get in.They just are killing machines *GEORGE


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I would vote for raccoon also .. I am SO very sorry this has happened to you and your birds.

Terry


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

yes i agree even a pack of rats wont kill off that many birds at one time where as weasle will and even a raccoon will go on a killing spree but that really depend on how big the hole was i9n your wire ..sorry for your loss thou , nature is always working its way against you and looks for any weak links to find its way into any loft or chicken coop to benifit its ways


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> Do you have clavamox? I would use that.
> I'm just sick...that is such an awful sight to walk in on.
> They will come around and start to eat again.
> Do you think the loft is safe now?


I'm out of clavamox, but I'll get some tomorrow.
I stopped at home depot on the way home and spent another 4 hours tonight tightening it up - AND I left a small light on for them. Thats probably crazy, but I just couldn't leave them in the dark. Their acting "panicy"


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Im gonna have to say that it were a raccoon as they are notorious for decapitating birds and leaving the rest ,weasles bite the back of the neck and suck the blood out of birds but dont really bite the heads off sorry


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Rats take the heads off too. Unfortunately I know from experience.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> I'm out of clavamox, but I'll get some tomorrow.
> I stopped at home depot on the way home and spent another 4 hours tonight tightening it up - AND I left a small light on for them. Thats probably crazy, but I just couldn't leave them in the dark. Their acting "panicy"


Leaving the light on was wise so at least they can see to get out of the way. That's what I did too until I had live trapped my intruders. It took about 6 months to get them all so you could be in for a time of it.
Have you noticed any tunnels around the outside or anywhere else on your property?


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
The rats that I have seen (last one about a month ago, ran under the shed)was huge! About 10 inches long - NOT including the tail. And fat!
Let me describe something - in this shed is a sealed off small room that use to be the well for my house. It is completely walled in with a ceiling and sealed shut because the well is still exposed inside. That is where I've seen the rats run under. The rest of the shed (the part that I use, has a concrete floor. When I was going over it tonight with a fine tooth comb, I found where something had chewed thru the top inside corner of the sealed off room, giving it access to the overhead storage area. I had put mesh along the top wall of my loft in case anything got into the storage area. That hole was also about 4 inches round. The path that it followed to get to the birds was way too small for a raccoon. Also, when I was inspecting over the ceiling of that room (which is only about a 6 inch space between the ceiling and the floor above) I found another one of my birds up there (dead), but its so tight up there I can't get to it. Its between the ceiling and floor above. Thats why I'm 99% sure its these rats.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well at least you know where the rats are. With the weather cold as it is, its hard for them to find food too.
If you have any birds that can't fly such as young ones, you will need to bring them inside. Rats will go after the birds even in the daylight hours if they are large in numbers and they have a ready source.
You know that now the rats have for Pigeons, they will keep after them.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> Leaving the light on was wise so at least they can see to get out of the way. That's what I did too until I had live trapped my intruders. It took about 6 months to get them all so you could be in for a time of it.
> Have you noticed any tunnels around the outside or anywhere else on your property?


I haven't seen any tunnels anywhere, but I have seen what they call "rat trails" (packed down little paths) going under the shed into the old well room.
My dog keeps barking so I keep running to the window to check the birds - I can see them sitting on their perches.
I'm a basket case right now


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I wish I were there to help you.
XXOO


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Im sorry but there is no way rats killed off 30 of your birds in one night ,if it were young birds that would be one thing but 30 birds is not a rat attack .. I would have to guess this was more likely a weasle attack if anything as they are more prone to killing all the birds in a loft at one time  rats might have killed off one or two birds in a nights time but 30 birds is a large scale massacur for even a few rats to take on  if you have any birds left I would bring them into a more secure area away from where you have them now til you can secure it to where you have no openings less then that of a 1/2 inch big or this will just continue til all your birds are gone .


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I am so very, very sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how devistated you must feel.

I can tell you from personal experience, based upon what you have described that you are finding only bodies with the heads missing.......it was an OWL. This is the clasic behavior of what owls do their prey. This is especially indicitive of owls in the Northeast. One single owl can do much more harm and devistation than any hawk, **** or rat.

When I lived in upstate New York, I had a pond on my property that I had stocked with approx. 100 different breeds of ducks and geese. The owl would never bother with the geese, but just about every morning I would find a few duck's carcus with the heads missing. This went on for months........it was horrible. I contacted the cooperative extension of Cornell University - Vet. School. We set a bait trap consisting of raw chicken legs and captured the owl and relocated it about 50 miles away. The mystery of the missing heads was solved, but then I had a fox problem whenever any of the ducks were nesting. The poor mother ducks would get torn apart protecting their little ducklings....... the mother ducks would never leave or abandon the babies....I would find the mutilated body of the mother and all the ducklings missing. 

Your remaining birds are totally traumatized They will come around.....they need time to recover from what they have whitnessed.

Again, I am so sorry for you and hope you never have to go through another experience like this again.

Regards,
Louise


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> Im sorry but there is no way rats killed off 30 of your birds in one night ,if it were young birds that would be one thing but 30 birds is not a rat attack .. I would have to guess this was more likely a weasle attack if anything as they are more prone to killing all the birds in a loft at one time  rats might have killed off one or two birds in a nights time but 30 birds is a large scale massacur for even a few rats to take on  if you have any birds left I would bring them into a more secure area away from where you have them now til you can secure it to where you have no openings less then that of a 1/2 inch big or this will just continue til all your birds are gone .


What ever it is ...., I sealed everything off so tight up until 11pm tonight, I don't think an ant could get in now! I reinforced the mesh, then completely sealed the loft in with 2x4's (over the mesh) inside and out. And also the old well room. If it tries to come in thru the well room again, its going to be trapped in there. I'm not letting this happen again!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh Waynette, I'm so sorry. How horrifying that must have been for you. I can't even imagine. The poor birds remaining must be so scared. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I worry about things like this all the time.


----------



## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

I'm sorry that you're going thru' all this. It's devastating to lose so many birds at one time.


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

someone here last year lost amost all her birds to an ermine or weasle type preditor I think and no matter what she did she couldnt stop the onslaught so hope you have better results and Im truely sorry you had to go thru this I know how devistating it can be


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Msfreebird said:


> The hole was only about 4 inches. And I have seen rats around the past 2 years - but I thought I had it secured.
> It pulled 1 thru the hole, then apparently went back in and just slaughtered them. Mostly decapitated and heads missing. The bodies were intact. None of them eaten!!


Maybe weasels, maybe rats....don't know how good rats are at prying. A weasel
would be more capable. 

If you don't have Clavamox on hand and can't get a hold of any locally, Baytril asap would be good in combination w/any of the canker meds like Metronidazole, Ronidazole, Carnidazole/Spartrix. If you have Doxycycline,
you could mix that with the Baytril instead. Combining the medications has
the function of treating a wider range of bacteria that is found in the saliva
or under the claws of animals. You would dose either of the meds at the same rate you would were you dosing individually even though giving as 
a combination.

The human equivalent of Clavamox would be Augmentin.

I'm so sorry to hear about your birds and the shock/loss it was and is for you.

fp


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What about fisher cats? I've heard they can be horrible. Would they kill that many birds? A girl I work with had one come into her chicken coop and kill and take a chicken, then come back for another one, and just kept coming back until all five of her chickens were killed and carried off. He did this all in one night. She only had five. They found out that it was a fisher cat. Could it be one of those?


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of so many of your birds. What a horrendous thing to find. It sounds like you have battened down the hatches again and can maybe sleep a little tonight. The light is probably a good idea until they settle down and are comfortable again. I'm really so sorry.


----------



## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I've read in the past of this happening to other people and I think "OMG, I would be devistated" and I feel so bad when I hear it happening. Well it happened and I'm devistated. I just came in from my loft, buttoning it up even tighter (which I thought it was).
> I went out this morning before work to feed and when I opened the door I couldn't believe what I saw. I shut the door and had to take a deep breath - I was in total shock! (and I can't describe it). I lost about 30 birds.
> I found a 4 inch round area of the mesh pried away in the top corner where it attaches to the 2x4. I'm guessing a RAT!
> I don't know what else to say.



goodness,im so sorry about your birds,what a thing to happen,its awful,it sounds like it could have been rats,i saw item on news on wed about rats coming in via "tunnels" dug under hen huts,lofts etc,they literaly dig under loft and get in through tunnels they have dug,the only sure way to find out is to speak to someone in pest control who can advise on methods of shoring up the coop to be rat proofed,again condolonces about your pigeons


----------



## j_birds (Sep 8, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the lose of your birds Msfreebirds. Thats a lot to lose at one time. Even 1 is to many. Hope you have the loft much more secure now.


----------



## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*rats*

IMO rats or weasels do not need a four inch whole to get in, I would think It is not just one but possibly up to four racoons that did this. I am not saying that the rats where not there but they will usually try and drag there prey away for later as a racoon will return to finish, somtimes even the same night. I seen someone on here had set up a game cam and seen first hand who the visiters were.
If it is the rats you will know soon enough, they will chew there way in and it does not take them long, I have never heard of a racoon chewing there way in , they are very good at pulling loose boards and wire open though, I have heard that they can even get certian latches open.
I am very sorry for your loss, I pray that it will never happen to me but I know someday I will get to laxed , it happened with my chickens, I was mad for days and trapped the culprets (SEVEN) and released them 50 miles north.>Kevin


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

soooo sorry.....no matter what it was, you need to get those rats relocated, they are trouble to your loft in more ways than just taking eggs or eating ybs, the disease and droppings....yuck!...even it they can not get in, haveing them hanging around your property is not a good thing.......I bet everyone is checking their lofts for holes now. I would vote it was a raccoon, as Ive seen the way they leave birds like that......in the winter they get real brave and desperate....sorry he got in to your birds.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Sending my sincere condolences, Waynette. 

Bless those who have crossed over the Rainbow Bridge and wish a speedy recovery to the baby, and any others, who were injured.

Cindy


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

I know that I am late chiming in But , I am so sorry about your loss. 

What a terrible thing to have to witness. I'm sorry~


I too, think *****. We had this happen with our chickens when I was a child growing up on the farm... They love the eggs too. They actually unlatched the lock on the door...... It was horrible .... rats only need enough space to squeeze their head in a hole, if their head fits the whole body will squeeze to fit through....... 

Heres to a brand new day of saftey for your beloved lil' ones that left too early. They will be taken care of over the rainbow, rest assured. And to those that remain, May they make a speedy recovery.
~Jenn~


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I don't know what to say except that I'm VERY sorry to hear what happened. I just can't imagine...............my husband's first reaction was "*****" too. He says rats just wouldn't kill that many birds.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, I don't know what to say except that I'm VERY sorry to hear what happened. I just can't imagine...............my husband's first reaction was "*****" too. He says rats just wouldn't kill that many birds.


They would.
I know.
They gang up. 
Two summers ago, at Audubon Wildlife Care, they killed 30 teenage ducks that were in an outside holding cage and ready to go to a release site the next morning. These were not small ducks. They also killed a dozen Crows that night. They took their heads. That's what they did when they got into my garage. I cried for a week. I still can't think about it without crying. 
They were just doing what rats do. They were just hungry.


----------



## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Let us not forget opossum could've done this too, anything that can fit their head into the hole can fit their body...Honestly, I don't think this was done by a single rat or may 5, not to kill that many...This is a large pradator and not only 2...It cud be a family...I hate to think that birds are the only meal they can get...Get a trap like the one I caught the raccoon, its really effective...When you catch one let him take a shower with the water hose, outside the house, sound like a torture? Well how about the torture emotions you feel now? I'm not saying kill the predator but wash him with his sin for killing your birds, sound sarcastic well he will get the water after he eat right...I know I might be too harsh about giving some things to think about but I just want to make sure those predators won't be coming back when I'm dont with them...I think rats will kill , eat on the spot then leave evidence...Not to take the whole prey away...


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pegasus said:


> Let us not forget opossum could've done this too, anything that can fit their head into the hole can fit their body...Honestly, I don't think this was done by a single rat or may 5, not to kill that many...This is a large pradator and not only 2...It cud be a family...I hate to think that birds are the only meal they can get...Get a trap like the one I caught the raccoon, its really effective...When you catch one let him take a shower with the water hose, outside the house, sound like a torture? Well how about the torture emotions you feel now? I'm not saying kill the predator but wash him with his sin for killing your birds, sound sarcastic well he will get the water after he eat right...I know I might be too harsh about giving some things to think about but I just want to make sure those predators won't be coming back when I'm dont with them...I think rats will kill , eat on the spot then leave evidence...Not to take the whole prey away...


Hosing a rat down would be cruel. They don't kill because they are malicious. Rats are notorious for packing their food away to save for the next meal. Ever heard the expression...PACK RAT?!
Rats are capable of this and I don't want to harp on it, but you all need to be aware of how deadly they can be as its not just their droppings that can kill your birds. If you see are rat or see a tunnel, please don't wait but do take immediate action. Also check around your coop or loft regularly for droppings because that can be a good indicator of what bumps in the night. If there is an extreme rat infestation, rats will be seen in daylight hours as well. Rats multiply so very quickly that 2 can easily turn into 200 in a very short amount of time. 
Rats have become a huge issue in every inner city with old sewer systems that have begun to fail. In the last 5 years, 99% of all inner city houses I have sold, have broken sewer lines and rat tunnels. I could conduct a seminar on this subject.
Please don't be in denial about protecting your birds.


----------



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, my question is are you going to trap and get rid of the rats?


----------



## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> The hole was only about 4 inches. And I have seen rats around the past 2 years - but I thought I had it secured.
> It pulled 1 thru the hole, then apparently went back in and just slaughtered them. Mostly decapitated and heads missing. The bodies were intact. None of them eaten!!



A few years ago I had that happen to some of our bantams, it turned out to be a young mink. We finially live trapped it.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If you are still wondering what it was, I got this info online about weasels, if you live near water, they like to as well.

Occasionally weasels raid poultry houses at night and kill or injure domestic fowl. They feed on the warm blood of victims bitten in the head or neck. Rat predation on poultry usually differs in that portions of the body may be eaten and carcasses dragged into holes or concealed locations. 

also http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/Weasels.asp


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

I agree rats would have to be in great numbers to kill flying birds like that in one night , if there was a pried open section I would go with raccoons but if you still think its to small of an opening I would have to go with the theory of it being a weasle or ermine as they can get into just about anywhere .. last december pigeon momma had a run in with one and it took out her whole flock of figs in one night, heres the link to that thread if you wanted to refer back to it http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/lost-all-birds-in-the-fig-loft-24199.html
Charis I would think that that loss of all those young ducks were a result of a weasle/ermine type animal too ,rats can be bad but they arent into mass killings of semi adult birds in one given night ,if that was the case I would think many poultry people would be out of business by now due to the large numbers that are attracted to farms and such .


----------



## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

The debate as to rats, racoons, weasels, ermines, 'possums, etc etc etc is very interesting. But (aint there always a butt somewhere)? the basic question has remained about what to do about it.
I understand the loft has been sealed, but (See, I told you) whatever did this knows there is a meal to be had inside. It got inside once, it'll try and try again until it is stopped.
The two suggestions I liked was the critter cam and the live traps. I would use both of them, just in case. If you decide to use a rat poison, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not put it were it could be consumed by anything else but a rat.
Another concern is the number of rats. If you are seeing these rats, think about how many you are not seeing. I had an exterminator tell me one time it was something like 1:5 (See one, there are five more you do not see). This is a good time to really emphasize loft cleanliness. Keep the feed in metal containers, clean up spilt feed and dispose of it where no other animal can get it. Something attracted the rats, regardless of whether they were the attackers.
I raise pigeons, ducks, geese, turkeys, chickens (cows, pigs, goats and a donkey named Jenny) and I have had many attacks on my poultry. So each and everyone of the posts mentions which type of critter it may have been have all described critters that I have dealt with.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Definitely put out some traps! Then you'll know who or what did this. I am very sad for you loss....30 birds is just too big of a number to not take any action on finding out more details about what type of predator did this to your birds. That's just my take on it.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I agree rats would have to be in great numbers to kill flying birds like that in one night , if there was a pried open section I would go with raccoons but if you still think its to small of an opening I would have to go with the theory of it being a weasle or ermine as they can get into just about anywhere .. last december pigeon momma had a run in with one and it took out her whole flock of figs in one night, heres the link to that thread if you wanted to refer back to it http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/lost-all-birds-in-the-fig-loft-24199.html
> Charis I would think that that loss of all those young ducks were a result of a weasle/ermine type animal too ,rats can be bad but they arent into mass killings of semi adult birds in one given night ,if that was the case I would think many poultry people would be out of business by now due to the large numbers that are attracted to farms and such .


It REALLY was the result of RATS. I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP!!!! Belive it or not.
Another time, someone left a domestic Farret in an over night cage at the Wildlife center. It got out of the cage and into one of the flights. It also killed some birds...but that is another story.


----------



## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

My condolences, I can't imagine seen that myself, just to hear about it, make me feel sad I'm really sorry and I hope you find out what cause all this damage, my heart is with you.

Ivette


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

No matter what caused this, I am truly sorry for your losses.


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

Charis said:


> It REALLY was the result of RATS. I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP!!!! Belive it or not.
> Another time, someone left a domestic Farret in an over night cage at the Wildlife center. It got out of the cage and into one of the flights. It also killed some birds...but that is another story.


 ok I believe you, I guess they must have been very hungry disgruntled rodents  The only reason I think it is important to identify the preditor is so you know exactly how to deal with it or at least attempt to do so .. weasels for one are very hard to trap and rats well its really even hard to know how many you are dealing with and if you got them all .. I do like the idea of the night cam ,knowing is half the battle .


----------



## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

How about it is time for traps! This way we wont be guessing. If rats ate those, then you probably will now see fat rats around your area. Back in Asia we did experience such, but the rats (not just one) wiped the chicks (maybe 36?). We ended up undercover with flashlight and sure enough we have never seen huge rats before. Those rats seemed to have mutated to some form of giants (in the beginning we thought we were seeing our small cats!). We ended up with mass killings. I think I only killed one. I was too scared to see such huge creatures! It was like a sci-fi movie--attack of massive rats!

From a different perspective rats and mouse have been very helpful in science. They help advance science because we used them for experiments. Those rats are like $50-$200 a piece. Their family or strain is known and even their genetics. There were many rats/mouse that sacrificed themselves in the name of science. Because by law we can't keep rats that were experimented on, they were euthanized.


----------



## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

Charis said:


> Rats take the heads off too. Unfortunately I know from experience.



But rats don't need four inch holes. I vote raccoon.


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss Waynette. I can't even imagine what you must be going through.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I just saw your thread, Waynette!

I am so very sorry...my heartfelt condolences!! Sure hope you don't lose any more!!

PLEASE keep us updated!

Sending loving healing thoughts and hugs!

Shi


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you all again for your thoughts, but I'm just not handling this very well. In my line of work I see alot of hurt and sick animals, and its heartbreaking - but its life and I understand that. But this was a masaquer.
I've seen these rats around here, I live on a pond, I'm not the only one that has them. I'm telling you - they are HUGE!! I don't know what "breed" they are, but I'm not talking 3-4 times mouse size. They are about 10-12 inches long from head to rump and as round as a guinea pig!
I have tried every "humane" way to catch (have a heart traps) and discourage them. Knowing they are around, I am extra vigilant about cleaning and keeping food stored in metal containers. My loft is enclosed IN my dog pen. My dog almost caught one last month, but they are extremely fast and it ran under the shed into the old well, which is inaccessible.
I really believe what has happened is that my newest young dog has been trying to sniff them out. Their under the shed and can't come out because she's waiting for them. This might be "off the wall" but I think they are desperate and starving. The hole was too small for a raccoon to get thru.
I make every attempt to live in peaceful co-existance with nature, but I can't tolerate what they did - in MY territory to MY pets. I am just heart sick at what I saw them do to my birds - I can't get the site out of my head, they have to go. I'm sorry, I'm very angry and I can't say anymore.


----------



## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

sorry to hear about the loss of so many birds,.a 4 inch hole can let in a rather large critter,it could be a couple cats,or weasels,.if the preditor is going just for the heads/that is a clue,.my experience with rats was short it did not bother the pigeons,..my pigeons have light heat,and surveilance camera,s-sensors,alarms and an emergency escape tunnel into the house-whereas-then i know something is a miss,.beef up the wire,maybe install some peremiter sensors,alarms -remember these are only deterents given enough time and patience it could happen again,..sincerely james waller


----------



## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Having gone through this last year, I'm thinking weasel, and, boy, are they hard to get rid of. On top of buttoning up loft, think about having baby monitor in the loft, so that if your birds get restless, you'll hear it, and be able to respond quickly. I am so sorry this happened to you and your birds. I really haven't gotten over my losses from last year. It wasn't the fact that I lost all of my show birds. It was that I lost so many little friends.
Daryl


----------



## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*For rats...*

here is the link you can go to and order your traps, really effective...

http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/TREXTRAP.JPG


I just caught one last night and guess what I did...Now some other members might get mad/offended what I did but just think of it that its not really a good thing to express in here...Just be careful with your fingers...When setting this trap...

We all care for some animals and the way they are or what ever they became but ________________________________________________ I want to continue my sentence but I rather not to say it and keep it to myself...

I keep my pigeons because I like to take care of them, a dog and 4 Keets, maybe some other kind of animals but that's for me to decide because I'm the one who feed cleans and keep them healthy, but other than those animals that I mentioned I don't careless about any of them...Like I said from the last post I had, payback time...It's better to be safe than SORRY (in general)...


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Thank you all again for your thoughts, but I'm just not handling this very well. In my line of work I see alot of hurt and sick animals, and its heartbreaking - but its life and I understand that. But this was a masaquer.
> I've seen these rats around here, I live on a pond, I'm not the only one that has them. I'm telling you - they are HUGE!! I don't know what "breed" they are, but I'm not talking 3-4 times mouse size. They are about 10-12 inches long from head to rump and as round as a guinea pig!
> I have tried every "humane" way to catch (have a heart traps) and discourage them. Knowing they are around, I am extra vigilant about cleaning and keeping food stored in metal containers. My loft is enclosed IN my dog pen. My dog almost caught one last month, but they are extremely fast and it ran under the shed into the old well, which is inaccessible.
> I really believe what has happened is that my newest young dog has been trying to sniff them out. Their under the shed and can't come out because she's waiting for them. This might be "off the wall" but I think they are desperate and starving. The hole was too small for a raccoon to get thru.
> I make every attempt to live in peaceful co-existance with nature, but I can't tolerate what they did - in MY territory to MY pets. I am just heart sick at what I saw them do to my birds - I can't get the site out of my head, they have to go. I'm sorry, I'm very angry and I can't say anymore.


everyone has their own way of trying to help...but whats done is done...time to get constructive...their hiding places need to be made so there is no place to hide, this is going to be a major effort, but if the other people around you have them too then make your property non hospitable so they go some place else, block off under sheds and cover wells and any out house, dog house, hen house, any hole burrow or even old brush and log piles. put your anger towards doing that and trapping these killer rats. also it is not good for your dog to be around these wild rats, just not healthy, they carry fleas too. I would do some research and try everthing in the book according to your beliefs.I know this does not help the hurt, but at least you are staying busy and being constructive and in the long run getting rid of these vermin will be best for all of your family human and animal.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

You guys are absolutely right, and I am using my anger to solve this problem  I know where their hiding, its just getting access that I have to figure out - and I will. In the meantime, my other birds have been tightly secured and these little demons are trapped in and under the well room. The only place they can go is outside.
And pigeonmama, yes its horrible - I don't show- these birds were my friends and they depended on me to take care of them. Thats whats tearing me apart. I like the baby monitor idea - I'll get one. I'm also going to get one of those video cameras so I can monitor them from my computer.


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I first read about this horrible tragedy two nights ago when it was freshly posted and was without words. It impacted me badly to say the least, and woke up many times thinking about this and found myself checking on my 8 pet pigeons and the coop the last two nights.

I have been making it a point to to a walk around inspection of my coop/aviary set up every morning but sometimes just make a casual look or don't do a check at all. Now I am doing a good check every morning and hopefully will get a good nights sleep tonight.

Last summer I had a family of racoons walking across my back yard in the direction of my set up and continued advancing in my presence. I scooted out small dogs in the house, yelled for my wife Bev to come out. I grabbed a shovel, and went back out. Our back yard is very large...they were still out there. I tried to scare at them, but they just stood there and stared at me. I advanced some more and finally the leader of the pack scurried up a tree, and the others followed. I went back and got my hight prerssure hose and aimed at them. Finally, one by one, they climbed down and went to the next yard. I remember throwing some garden stones and bricks at them as they ran in the north direction. I would have felt no remorse had I impacted one. I was raging at their very presence. One could describe me as being "territorial" as they were in my yard. I have not a clue if they were "just going fom point A to B" or after some dinner...I don't know. I was not going to find out. They are brave creatures, I know this.

I looked at Ms Freebirds webshots pigeon pictures and could not help but notice the mesh that she had. It was not hardware cloth but seemed to be chicken wire. If this is what was surrounding the enclosure, I can see why it was so easy for the prey to gain access. 

If this is the case MsFreebird, I hope you have changed the mesh to the recommeded hardware cloth.

I am deeply sorry.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

*My pedator input, if you don't mind*

I'm sorry to hear about you losing so many birds  A similar thing happened to me, when a raccoon got through the trap door. And then another one managed to push through a small space where the roof had gotten a bit loose from the walls. It took us forever to figure out where he got in the second time, until we found the claw marks on the wall. The first attack took out about 10 of my rollers, and the second time caused my flock of nearly 30 homers to shrink down to 4 birds.
I've had rats come in and kill the babies in the nest, only eating a bit from the back. They also tried to get the sleeping adults, to the point the birds were afraid to perch on that wall.

Here's what I know about how the different predators around here get our birds.

*Rats *mainly get the babies since of course they're too young to escape. They'll eat the head, neck, into part of the back. They'll also cut into the crop to get the grain. With babies still on milk, they'll eat the bird first, but typically if it's got seed in its crop, that's what they go for first. I don't see rats killing a whole lot of birds in one night, mostly because they eat what they kill, and there's not a whole lot of reason for all those birds to be dead. Unless you have a serious starving rat infestation.
*Raccoons* start on the neck and breast, and will carry off the bodies. When I lost all of those birds, only a few were left in the building, most where nowhere to be found, except feathers here and there. They'll kill a lot of birds before they even take a few off to eat.
*Opossums* eat the heads and the breast. They don't carry the birds off, but rather eat it where they kill it. Because of that, they don't kill as many at once as raccoons do.
*Snakes* of course swallow the babies and eggs whole, but nip at the adults too if they can, and they're hungry.
*Cats *and *dogs* kill mostly for the fun of it, and can go through the whole flock before they're done. Dogs rip them to shreds and usually don't stop to eat them, but cats will.

So my vote either goes towards a opossum or a raccoon personally. They both have toes and are experts at pulling and tearing their way through things, especially raccoons. Those little guys won't stop until they've accomplished what they came for. They're pretty strong too. As long as a *cat, opossum, or raccoon* can fit its head through the hole, they're in. It's crazy how they can squeeze through spaces so small.

Adding another layer of wire or changing to 1/4 inch hardware cloth is best. Look for any other holes or gaps that shouldn't be there, and get them fixed. Make sure that wire is tacked down really good too. Setting some traps would probably be a good idea. Big metal live traps will tell you if it's something bigger than a rat. Setting some live rat traps is helpful too. Most of the time if they know there's food, they keep coming. It's winter so everyone is looking for food. You don't have to hurt them, just get them caught up and call animal control, or relocate any rats somewhere else.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

When I origionally put up the loft a couple years ago I had chicken wire. But after reading some of the horror stories I put up 1/2 mesh. Its very hard to see in the pictures because I put in on the inside with the chicken wire STILL on the outside. So there is now 2 layers of wire on the outside. But thats not where they got in. They got inside the left side of the shed into the "well room" thats enclosed inside the building, then worked their way out of that room into the work area in the center of the shed (they can't get into this area from underground because it has a poured concrete floor). THEN they had to work their way into the bird section thats on the right!
Unfortunately they pulled out one of the birds and I was able to figure out their route because of that. They left me a very clear trail! So once they got into the "well room" (from underground) they had to go UP. They came thru the top of the wall. The whole trail is overhead!
Once they got thru to the bird section (at the TOP), they were able to use the wall platform perches that I had positioned in "step" form for the handicap birds. I think the formation of the platform perches helped in the attack!! Which I've removed because I don't need them anymore - my handicapped birds were among the victims.
I also do a daily check of the enclosures. They got into the bird section because of 3 loose staples! 
So I hope this gets people to check their enclosures - even closer!


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Ms Freebird said:


> I also do a daily check of the enclosures. They got into the bird section because of 3 loose staples!
> So I hope this gets people to check their enclosures - even closer!


This misfortune that you went through should be a warning to all of us that keep our birds in an outdoor structure. My 8 pet pigeons had been upstairs in our home from about the 1st of December and placed back in the pigeon coop a couple of days after new year, and then you posted this thread. It had to produce a few more white hairs.

In the bus transportation business, which I am in, we teach our drivers to do a complete check of their vehicle, and do a walk around and even inspect the floor of the bus. I am doing a "bus inspection" from now on to our structure DAILY, inside and out. 

My heart goes out to you. It must have devastated you.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Even in this tragedy, I've learned something. I just wish I knew it earlier so my birds would still be here.
I just hope everybody else learns from this too.
IT IS RATS!!! BIG POND RATS!


----------



## Dovey (Sep 2, 2008)

*A Gruesome discovery*

went out to my breeders loft this morning and threw up on the spot. i'm presuming a raccoon pried opne the landing board and went through my loft killing six hens, two cocks, five babies and destroying 16 eggs. my emotional health is shakey as i've battled PTSD for five years.

heads decapitated, bodies mangled, etc. it looked like a war zone!


----------



## birds+me=happy (May 21, 2009)

How do you keep rats away and were do they all live? I sure wouldn't wan't this to happen to my birds since they live in a barn with chickens and a horse. The barn doors are open all day and we close them up at night. Our barn is very clean and fairly new but that probably dosn't effect anything.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

birds+me=happy said:


> How do you keep rats away and were do they all live? I sure wouldn't wan't this to happen to my birds since they live in a barn with chickens and a horse. The barn doors are open all day and we close them up at night. Our barn is very clean and fairly new but that probably dosn't effect anything.


Many rats live in burrows under the ground. They can easily get into a barn, especially if it has a dirt floor. They just burrow underneath. Or they can get themselves through very narrow openings. They too will decapitate a pigeon. They attack at night, and the birds can't see to fly and get away. That's why you try to make a loft as tight as you can, with hardware cloth for the aviary, and covering any openings, like windows or vents for circulation. Mice can get in too, and can make your birds very sick if they get into the seed, or even if the pigeon pecks up a rodent dropping from the floor. Pigeons will peck at anything they see, thinking that it might be a small seed or something to eat.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dovey said:


> went out to my breeders loft this morning and threw up on the spot. i'm presuming a raccoon pried opne the landing board and went through my loft killing six hens, two cocks, five babies and destroying 16 eggs. my emotional health is shakey as i've battled PTSD for five years.
> 
> heads decapitated, bodies mangled, etc. it looked like a war zone!


I'm really sorry to hear about your birds. Was the landing board actually pried open? Are you sure it wasn't rats? It must have been a horrible thing for you to find.


----------



## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Hello Dovey ,

I'm sorry to hear about the attack on your loft . That would be a horrible thing to find . 

Here in the desert where I am we dont have raccoons possums and big rats like in the wetter parts of the country ... but we have coyotes , hawks , cats and dogs and snakes . Some of these animals are very strong and no matter how secure you think your loft is , its vulnerable . I've been fortunate so far .... but its always in the back of my mind . I'm going to do a walk around today and see if I can improve on my setups security 

Very sorry to hear of your loss 

hambone


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dovey said:


> went out to my breeders loft this morning and threw up on the spot. i'm presuming a raccoon pried opne the landing board and went through my loft killing six hens, two cocks, five babies and destroying 16 eggs. my emotional health is shakey as i've battled PTSD for five years.
> 
> heads decapitated, bodies mangled, etc. it looked like a war zone!


I'm sooo sorry about your birds. It's a horrible thing to walk into and it's still engraved in my mind. It happened to me last December, I lost about 27 birds, I still get very upset if I think about it and I still cry if I see their pictures.
Mine was caused by Norway Rats. I found where they burrowed inside the shed into the old dug well room - which is closed off. They chewed through the wall getting inside the shed and found a couple of loose staples to my flight cage. Thats how they got inside with the birds.
I check and double check my loft daily with a fine tooth comb for any openings or loose staples, AND I still keep a light on 24 hours and get up in the middle of the night to double check! It's something that I don't ever want to have happen again!
It's devastating and I know exactly how you feel


----------



## Mader631 (Sep 7, 2008)

Sounds like a weasel too me...........


----------



## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Definitely pest proof the loft and as Victor said, do a walk-thru and inspect the loft everyday. I have nightly visit from opossums, and several cats. They startle my birds alright, but so far they haven't got in yet. I see some attempted bite marks on the wall though where the hardware cloth is located so I always inspect that.


----------



## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Rats KILL Large numbers of Birds at a time, normally just messing with the head. 4 inches... Not likely a ****.Weasel would have most likely eaten flesh, this time of Year(young to feed) ***** MOST certainly would have. Dave


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

LUCKYT said:


> Rats KILL Large numbers of Birds at a time, normally just messing with the head. 4 inches... Not likely a ****.Weasel would have most likely eaten flesh, this time of Year(young to feed) ***** MOST certainly would have. Dave


THANK YOU!
I don't understand why so many people don't believe it was rats 
I saw them, I found their tunnels, I followed their trail to and from my flight cage (after the disaster) and I found where they dragged at least 2 of my birds back to their den.
Norway Rats are HUGE.
I don't mean to harp on this but people need to know what kind of damage they can do to their lofts. And don't underestimate them. Birds need to be secured AND double checked. I learned the hard way.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well you know I believe you.
I'm sorry all this was dredged up again after so many months. I'm sorry you have to relive the tragedy.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> Well you know I believe you.
> I'm sorry all this was dredged up again after so many months. I'm sorry you have to relive the tragedy.


Thank you Charis.
But its OK, if it has to be brought up now and then, at least it will be a reminder to *double check our loft's security!*


----------



## teebo (Jul 7, 2006)

ahhh.. i am so sorry to hear what happened to your birds ,does sound like *****,years ago ,they got into our barn and ripped the heads and bills off of my pet ducks,trap the little bastards and relocate far far away.if it was rats go out with a gun and shoot them.kill them nasty suckers.i am an animal lover,but i cant take it,when predators kill innocent animals. ugggg


----------



## Dovey (Sep 2, 2008)

It was a opossum that hit the one loft. Neighbors turning down the lane I share saw a fat one early Sunday morning. It was headed right for ground zero. My lofts sit on small acreage I own outside of town. The trap door is one I bought from Jedds that only has a clasp covering it when the landing board is up. The opossum knocked the clasp and went in. 

Death toll is now 18, including 6 ybs and 16 eggs. This was a white homer loft and the birds are grieving the loss of their mates. They almost sound as if they are crying. 

The lost is now secure. The clasp has been replaced with a lock. I each of my three lofts the once over before leaving for the day. I spend about 5 to 6hours out there a day.

Still, the gruesome discovery was enough to make this old 55 year old man cry in addition to throwing up. Your expressions of sympathy are deeply appreciated.


----------



## teebo (Jul 7, 2006)

Dovey said:


> It was a opossum that hit the one loft. Neighbors turning down the lane I share saw a fat one early Sunday morning. It was headed right for ground zero. My lofts sit on small acreage I own outside of town. The trap door is one I bought from Jedds that only has a clasp covering it when the landing board is up. The opossum knocked the clasp and went in.
> 
> Death toll is now 18, including 6 ybs and 16 eggs. This was a white homer loft and the birds are grieving the loss of their mates. They almost sound as if they are crying.
> 
> ...


im so sorry for your loss also.those poor poor birds. ):


----------



## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> THANK YOU!
> I don't understand why so many people don't believe it was rats
> I saw them, I found their tunnels, I followed their trail to and from my flight cage (after the disaster) and I found where they dragged at least 2 of my birds back to their den.
> Norway Rats are HUGE.
> I don't mean to harp on this but people need to know what kind of damage they can do to their lofts. And don't underestimate them. Birds need to be secured AND double checked. I learned the hard way.


I believe you cause I suffered the same tragedy when I was younger when I was still living in the Philippines. I found 10 birds dead in my loft with same injuries you described. I ended live trapping and caught about 20 rats within a 2 month period. They were huge... about 8 inches long not including their tails. They were coming up from the sewer lines.

Now try and take some pictures of these trails you are talking about and if you're lucky enough.. a pic of the rodent. Good Luck and be patient.


----------



## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

sorry for you loss. Have you thought of maybe buying coyote urine or another predator's urine from hunting store. I hate hunting but am a former biology major along with my other degrees lol. In studies when an animal senses the urine of another predator in the area they may move out and not return. just a thought.


----------



## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

That sounds like a lot of of Damage for it to be a possum... Dave


----------



## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP FOCUSING ON THE PREDATOR????

Let's get some pictures of your loft to help you make sure your remaining pigeons are safe. I learned from everyone by being jealous of other peoples nicer looking lofts.


----------



## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

GEE, you need to Know the Predator, so at least you get some life lessons!
4" Hole i say weasel, or RATS. Dave


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sometimes it helps to know what you are dealing with. Although you do want to try to tighten up the loft against ANY predator. So many people here don't take the measures that they need to, to make their birds safe, then when something happens.................
I see pictures all the time on here where chicken wire has been used, instead of hardware cloth. Then they wonder why mice are getting in, causing sickness, they wonder why rats are getting in killing their birds, and snakes. For goodness sakes people. WAKE UP! You read about it happening to others, and think that it will never happen to you. Get real. It happens all the time. Your birds are in your care. Take care of them. You owe them that. Thay can't protect themselves if you lock them up in a situation where you are putting them at risk. It just isn't fair to them. At least, in the wild, they can pick high places that are hard for a predator to get to. In our lofts, we have taken the choice away from them. Their safety is our responsibility. Please think about it, and really take a good look at your lofts, and try to make it as safe a place as possible for your birds. If it is horrible to find this kind of thing, imagine what the birds went through.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Sometimes it helps to know what you are dealing with. Although you do want to try to tighten up the loft against ANY predator. So many people here don't take the measures that they need to, to make their birds safe, then when something happens.................
> I see pictures all the time on here where chicken wire has been used, instead of hardware cloth. Then they wonder why mice are getting in, causing sickness, they wonder why rats are getting in killing their birds, and snakes. For goodness sakes people. WAKE UP! You read about it happening to others, and think that it will never happen to you. Get real. It happens all the time. Your birds are in your care. Take care of them. You owe them that. Thay can't protect themselves if you lock them up in a situation where you are putting them at risk. It just isn't fair to them. At least, in the wild, they can pick high places that are hard for a predator to get to. In our lofts, we have taken the choice away from them. Their safety is our responsibility. Please think about it, and really take a good look at your lofts, and try to make it as safe a place as possible for your birds. If it is horrible to find this kind of thing, imagine what the birds went through.


Ditto from me. Couldn't have said it more directly.


----------



## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

This has happened to me before. The weird thing was, as I was walking towards my loft my heart was beating fast like I knew something bad had happened already.

Sorry for your loss


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Sometimes it helps to know what you are dealing with. Although you do want to try to tighten up the loft against ANY predator. So many people here don't take the measures that they need to, to make their birds safe, then when something happens.................
> I see pictures all the time on here where chicken wire has been used, instead of hardware cloth. Then they wonder why mice are getting in, causing sickness, they wonder why rats are getting in killing their birds, and snakes. For goodness sakes people. WAKE UP! You read about it happening to others, and think that it will never happen to you. Get real. It happens all the time. Your birds are in your care. Take care of them. You owe them that. Thay can't protect themselves if you lock them up in a situation where you are putting them at risk. It just isn't fair to them. At least, in the wild, they can pick high places that are hard for a predator to get to. In our lofts, we have taken the choice away from them. Their safety is our responsibility. Please think about it, and really take a good look at your lofts, and try to make it as safe a place as possible for your birds. If it is horrible to find this kind of thing, imagine what the birds went through.


Very well said!


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

I'm so sorry about your loss, Msfreebird! I hope that all the excellent advice in this thread will make a big difference in stopping this happening to anyone else in the future.
Hope your birds have recoverd from the shock of what they witnessed.
Very best wishes.


----------

