# Injured Pigeon in Toronto



## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi guys, I am new to this forum, so I apologize if I make any mistakes. I joined this forum because moments ago I noticed that one of the parent pigeons is injured and I don't know what to do - at all. Earlier I saw him sitting on the balcony looking like it was difficult to get up (he was tilted). And then just now I heard him try to fly or fall off my window ledge on to the floor and stayed there for a very long time. 

The pigeon couple just had 2 babies and have been caring for them together, but it just breaks my heart to see this parent injured. Can I call someone? How do I help - I have no clue!

Thanks


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

We do have a member that lives there, let me see if I can get him. I have sent Ron an e-mail, hopefully he will post soon.

Meanwhile, can you get the bird inside, in a box or carrier, and follow instructions on this thread? The bird needs to be kept warm and hydrated.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

How old are the babies? Is mom or dad with them?


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

*How old are the babies*

they were born like 3 weeks ago. I just checked on them to see what was going on...here's a pic..(excuse the poo the made) He or she seems hurt badly


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Could you please gently pick him/her up and put him inside a box with blanket or tissue and bring him in and provide warmth and subdued light. Please follow the link.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

*Trying to get the pigeon*

This situation is getting more difficult. I found a box and a shirt I can use, but when I opened the door to my balcony the pigeon dragged himself under the divider into the next balcony, and the babbies and other parent followed. I am so inexperienced at this, not to mention squimish, but I'm glad I'm not alone (meaning this forum).


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Can you gently drop a light towel or shirt on him, so he can't see and will calm down, and you can pick him up?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

That bird is injured bad. I'm so sorry.........looks like it's been attacked by something......possibly a hawk. I sure hope you can catch him and get some help.............


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Treesa could he have flown into something as his legs are under him in such a way that an injury to his pelvic girdle? Poor guy

Cindy


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

I will try to get him. At this point I'm feeling helpless and anxious. I know it's stupid, but I feel funny knocking on my neighbours door and asking if I can enter their apt to go get the pigeon. Do they have germs or diseases, I'm so sorry. I'm just really anxious right now


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

naturegirl said:


> Treesa could he have flown into something as his legs are under him in such a way that an injury to his pelvic girdle? Poor guy
> 
> Cindy



It is possible, I just want to get that poor bird some attention and not leave him/her there where he is.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

mhernan said:


> I will try to get him. At this point I'm feeling helpless and anxious. I know it's stupid, but I feel funny knocking on my neighbours door and asking if I can enter their apt to go get the pigeon. Do they have germs or diseases, I'm so sorry. I'm just really anxious right now


I understand how you feel, pigeons don't carry any more diseases then any other bird, just wash your hands when you have secured him/her.

I appreciate anything you can do to help this bird.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

There is nothing that pigeon can give to you. If anything like the others said he is badly injured and needs some fast attention. 

Cindy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mhernan said:


> I will try to get him. At this point I'm feeling helpless and anxious. I know it's stupid, but I feel funny knocking on my neighbours door and asking if I can enter their apt to go get the pigeon. Do they have germs or diseases, I'm so sorry. I'm just really anxious right now


Calm down. The bird doesn't have anything that is going to make you sick. I know how you feel. I freak when one of my birds gets hurt, but you have to calm yourself and say "I can do this"......that poor bird NEEDS your help and you are the ONLY one at the moment who can possibly save his life. Go try to get the bird and get it back to your apartment in a safe, dry, warm place and you can go from there. Good luck.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

okay, well I am calmed down now. I was more concerned with my allergies and I should have thought of that first before thinking abt disease or whatever. I'll try my best. my neighbors aren't opening up.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

mhernan said:


> okay, well I am calmed down now. I was more concerned with my allergies and I should have thought of that first before thinking abt disease or whatever. I'll try my best. my neighbors aren't opening up.


Well that is a natural response, but the bird needs help, please do try again. I sure appreciate you getting this poor bird. He really needs some attention, God willing.

Thank you.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

climb over the divider! i'm sure your neighbors would rather have you do that than keep the pijjie there! poor thing looks hurt bad, and some heat and safety could very well save it's life!! poor thing, and THANKS FOR HELPING!!!


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

If the youngsters are about 3 weeks old I am surprised there are not two more eggs in the nest, this could be the hen and she is calcium deficient and or egg bound.

If the bird was able to slide under the balcony is there away that you can make a home made net to get over the bird, it is pretty simple to do, you need a broom, tape, a clothes hanger, a pair of nylons, or a shirt that you can tie or tape the arms shut on the sleeve and the body part, I find it easier just to tie them shut with a big old teeshirt. Make a circle out of the wire hanger leaving a strip of the hanger straight so that you can tape it to the handle of the broom, then take the nylon/panty hoses and wrap them around the circle of the hanger and if needed you can use some tape to hold them in place or the neck of the shirt, now you have yourself a net that you can possibly slide under, around or something to get the bird, it is week so it should be farely easy to get a hold of with this.

Please let us know as soon as you have it.

Ellen


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

mhernan,

Can you update us please?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Mhernan,

Sorry I am late to this thread. I live in Toronto and can offer you assistance with this bird. Please update us with its status, can you just ask your neighbour to get the bird for you?

Ron


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ron, thanks for posting. Don't be sorry, you didn't know.


Hope to hear something soon from mhernan.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

*---update---*

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay. My friend and I looked under the divider and over it with a flashlight (since there's no light out there) and the pigeon was no where to be found. I also think that since last night, the babies have been by themselves, as I didnt see the mom or dad around - even just now when I looked. Do you think that by getting so close to the babies (did not touch them) that now the parent has abandoned them? 

Should we feed the babies, or will that cause the parents to abandon them?

PS - here in Toronto, I just got a notice that it is illegal to have these pigeons on my balcony and that their excrements can be a health hazard. So I can't really mention it to the building.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

No, the parents will not abandon the youngsters if people get close or even touch them, only if it is continues. They will come back to the young once any person goes away.

Please do give the youngsters access to some wild bird seed and water, and keep an eye on them. 

Have you looked for the injured bird anymore today?

Don't worry about the poop, it is not any worse then any other type of bird poop, the excrements aren't a health hazard unless you do something like eat them.

You can contact Ron if you need some answers to questions or for help. He is a wonderful caretaker and rehabber of pigeons and other birds.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Does it have to be bird seed? It's late here and all the stores are closed. I do have poppyseed bagels...is bread ok? And what do we put the water in?


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

And both parents are still no where in sight.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

In regards to their age, which one of the pics do they resemble age wise?

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

They may have to eat on their own, and if they are closer to 4 weeks of age they may be ready to. If younger we have to consider alternatives.

Perhaps they will, if you put some whole grain bread in small pieces, for now, even thawed and drained corn or peas will do, but it should be warm, soaked, and drained. Do you have any puppy chow or organic dog food or cat food? You can use that temporarily. Just put some out in small pieces, soaked and drained.

You don't have to put water out if the food is soaked and drained, however, when you put wild bird seed out (which is their actual diet) they will need a spill proof bowl of water.

If you have any problems where they won't eat please contact Ron for help.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ok. Maybe Ron can take the birds up to the Toronto Wildlife Center. I messgd him. In any case, I don't know if they can eat on their own. I just got home from work and haven't been watching religiously. I have no whole grain bread or peas or corn. Can and should I give them small pieces of poppy seed bagels?


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

mhernan,

jazaroo aka Ron is online right now and I am hoping that he will chime in shortly as he is there in your area and will be able to talk you through this and hopefully can assist, have you looked on the ground down below the balcony to make sure that it did not fall any place, the youngsters will need to be cared for and provided water.

Ellen


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

I think they are closer to 22 days old.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for the picture, the kids are adorable.

Ron is on now, so he will help you.

Thanks for your input, Ellen.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi mhernan,

I PMd' you my cell number please call me.

Ron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

*Update!*

I just got off the phone with mhenan and have made arrangements to pick up the babies later on this afternoon. Will keep you informed.

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, this is such good news. The picture that was posted broke my heart. I am sure the parent is dead by now judging by the way it looked in the picture and the babies would not have stood a chance. Thanks to mhernan for being concerned and to you for simply being you.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

jazaroo said:


> I just got off the phone with mhenan and have made arrangements to pick up the babies later on this afternoon. Will keep you informed.
> 
> Ron


Hi Ron,

I'm sure glad to hear that. Those poor youngsters have seen and been thru alot. I wonder what hapened to the injured parent and their other parent?

Thanks for letting us know.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

I am at mhernan's place and I need some advice now. When I got here one parent was still with them and they have food in their crops and one put out a very large dropping right on me. I am thinking of leaving them and returning if their are problems. What do you guys think? Not a lot of time here.

Ron


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ron,

If they have a safe area to stay and mom or/dad has access to seed and water, perhaps it would be best to leave them.

Can you ask mhernan to leave seed and water out for the parent, is that do-able?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I agree with Treesa. They look also old enough to start eating on their own soon.

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Well, it was an exciting afternoon. Mhernan was nice enough to go through the trouble of having a friend give me access to her apartment to retrieve the babies, since she was at work. When I looked out through the balcony window I saw one of the parents with them, but as I opened the balcony door it took off.

The friend told me they were around three weeks old, and I proceeded to examine them. Both had food in their crops, one a little more than the other, but the one with less did a rather large dropping onto my pants, thats when I asked to use the computer there to ask for advice, since I was in a quandary as what to do.

As luck would have it, I had purchased a number of bags of Pigeon/Dove mix a few days before and had not taken them out of my car, so I went and got a bag and brought it back. We set up food and water dishes for them near their nest and shortly after I left, the friend called me on my cell to tell me that he decided to put some more seeds right on the nest and the babies were eating them all up .

I thought I would save (hopefully) the best to last. After we had set up the food and water a Pigeon flew down to near the dishes and when it couldn't stand we realized it was the hurt parent. The friend asked me if I thought I could catch it and I told him that I didn't think so, as when they are hurt, but still fly well they are still really hard to catch, plus I had to open the balcony door first, then the screen door, which would give the bird plenty of time to react. He suggested I still give it a try so I slowly opened the first door, the bird watched me do this but didn't take off. I then quickly open the screen door and it took to flight, but I managed to block it in the corner and get a hold of it.

I think it was a combination of the legs being useless and weakness from lack of food and dehydration that was in my favor in managing to catch this bird. When it landed for food, although it was close to the dishes, the best it could manage was a stretch of the neck towards them, unable to stand at all, a very sad sight to see.

I decided to wait until I got home to do a thorough examine and report my findings. When i arrived home the first thing I did was clean the poor thing up, as it was very soiled around its rear area. The second thing I did was give bird 8cc of warmed Pedialyte and .80cc of Calcivet. I have attached a photo of the bird resting comfortably in a "donut" with food and water at hand. I will supplement tonight with some Kaytee, as the bird has lost a fair amount of mass.

Here is what I found, no obvious wounds of any sort. I checked for any leg injuries or breaks and could find none. The bird seems to have good strength in both legs and, opens and closes its toes just fine and when I pull either leg out and hold it, the bird has good pulling strength in both legs and quickly retracts the leg when released. Also, if I support the bird with one hand and rest its feet in the palm of the other, it feels like it then almost has strength to support itself. I am thinking some sort of pelvic injury, and would appreciate any thoughts on this or anything else I can do for this bird.

All the best,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, you can't imagine how happy this post made me. I thought for sure the parent was dead. I think you did right in leaving the babies.

I would give it a wormer and cocci meds in a day or so just to take care of those possible problems. I'm sure you've checked its throat. Something like Bactrim might be needed too.

The pigeon may simply be malnourished and you may even need to feed her for a few days - we often do that with the adults we get in just to help them out.

I'm sorry you got pooped on but know you don't mind under the circumstances.  

I hope this little one improves daily. It looks very comfortable and sweet.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a terrific rescue, Ron! I'm so glad you got the injured parent. I think I would proceed pretty much as Maggie has suggested.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

You know, Ron, I was just thinking about this pigeon and the babies. Since we have no idea what happened with the parent, I wonder if a disease is present could it be passed on to the babies?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Oh...Ron!!  

What terrific news! I'm so happy you found her/him. What a complete turn about from the first pic.

She looks very cozy in her first class accomodations.

Could it be lack of calcium deficiency, and this is the hen? Perhaps that is the problem, she will start feeling better then rel soon.

Thanks SO much for the wonderful update and for all your hard work, and care of the kids too.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Maggie,

With Pidgey's help I have learned to do some of the fecal exams on a microscope, so as soon as the bird stars to produce droppings I will be able to check for cocci oocysts and worm eggs. My feeling is towards injury more than anything else, the other parent landed about 10 feet away and looks in excellent health and the babies appear the same. The mouth and throat of this bird look just fine, but I will also do a crop swab for examination under the microscope for Trichomonads. I have the necessary meds on hand for treating the most possible infections this bird could have.

By the way, I could be wrong, but I have seen both birds and if I had to guess, I think this is the male.

Ron


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ALL RIGHT!! Nice job. I thought about that poor bird last night. Someone posts and says a bird is injured and it's one thing, but to look at that picture was horrific. I felt so sorry for it but could do nothing. I'm SO glad you caught her or him.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ron is heaven-sent! I am still teary eyed from all this. It touched me so much when my friend told me the injured bird came back. It was amazing, because I honestly couldnt find either of them anywhere! My friend and I had even got down on hands and knees with a lamp (using an extension cord) looking last night. I feel so blessed. Just very happy! And I can't express my gratitude enough. At least now I have some sort of peace of mind. I love these birds.

PS - I have watched the parents cuddle on the ledge and take turns sitting on the nest. It's just so beautiful.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

By the way - Ron he looks so beautiful sitting there - what a gorgeous bird!

Here they are when they were cuddling outside (before the babbies were born)


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)




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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Last night this bird produced a small amount of droppings and I examined them under a microscope, there were a few cocci oocysts, which I consider to be at a "normal" background level, and no indications of a worm infestation. I tube feed him 10cc of Kaytee Exact to which I added some Nekton-S.

This morning when I lifted him out of his donut to clean him and the cage up there were a good amount of droppings. However, mixed into these droppings were a fair amount of undigested seed and three pieces of cubed carrot, the kind that comes from frozen vegetables (which did not come from me).

I started him on Cipro and have decided to remove his seeds for the next few days and to tube feed him alone to get him cleared out, as I think the Kaytee helped loosen things up to get things moving. After that I will start him on Pigeon pellets, which will be more easily digestible for him and then progress him back to seeds, as indications allow.

Hi, mhernan, thanks for sharing the photos you have of this bird in better times and the other of a parent on the nest. Thanks as well, for the compassion and caring you and you friend have offered to these birds.

Ron


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi mhernan,

Well...since the black bird is the hen then...that officially means Ron has the male. I wonder if that was the first egg she ever laid, looks a bit bloody.

Thank you for sharing the pics, and for taking care of and keeping an eye on mom and the kids. 


Ron,

I think formula is wise for now, as the intestines need rest. I'm sure you are also including the ACV and probiotics to promote overall good intestinal health. I appreciate everything you are doing for the bird, and for the updates.

You are a wonderful caregiver and rehabber.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Ron for all you do for this bird.
Many thanks to mhernan and his friend for seeking help and rescuing this sweet birdie.

good luck and keep us updated.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Wonderful postings of cooperation and coordination!

I hope the pigeon will be OK! He sure is in excellent hands!

Once he has recovered, will you take him back to his mate, Ron?

Sending HUGS and WARM HEALING THOUGHTS!!

Shi


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well I certainly am not a vet but this same exact thing happened last year with a pigeon and I took it to the vets and it had a cracked pelvic girdle. You explained right to the exact thing which was going on with the rehab bird, can move legs, can pull away, but just can't walk or put weight on it's legs. I sure hope it isn't anything serious. Real beauty! Good Luck on healing h/she and you really are a hero Ron. Thanks for your quick attention for this bird.

Cindy


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi Trees,

Yes, I was curious about the blood on the egg as well. I didn't know if that was normal when pigeons lay eggs. When you said "the black one" what does that mean exactly? Because they look the same to me! haha


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Is a broken pelvic girdle something that a pigeon can recover from? It seems like a serious injury. Regardless, I'm glad that he is receiving such knowledgable and caring attention... thank you mhernan and Ron!

Danielle


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

mhernan said:


> Hi Trees,
> 
> Yes, I was curious about the blood on the egg as well. I didn't know if that was normal when pigeons lay eggs. When you said "the black one" what does that mean exactly? Because they look the same to me! haha



Hi mhernan,

The pigeons with the egg, she looks like she is black, and the other looks like a check color.

When a young hen lays an egg for the very fist time it sometimes is accompanied with a little blood. I'm hoping that was her first batch and that is all there is to it. 

How is she and the kids doing? Are they eating well?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

I thought I would post some guarded good news. I re-examined this bird yesterday, to once more check for injuries, going a little slower and watching carefully for any indication of pain from where I was examining. Once more, I could find no sign of injury, or of pain.

This bird had regurgitated some of the Kaytee Exact formula I had feed it that morning, again with some undigested seed and a single kernel of whole corn, both of which are not in the seed mix had a put in with him for a short period of time the first evening I had him. So on a hunch, I treated him yesterday for poisoning using activated charcoal and to which I mixed in some ALA (alpha lipoic acid) and this morning this bird was standing when I checked on him. This is the product that I used, http://www.dvmformula.com/gels.htm (bottom of the page), very handy to have around.

He suffering from ataxia, very unsteady on his feet, so I will take it a day at a time, but I was happy to see the improvement. I will continue to treat for poisoning for the next few days and will update you on any changes.

Shi, once healed, I will be returning him to where I got him, so my hope is that he will be able to reunite with his mate.

Ron

PS: I forgot to mention I got wing whacked and grumped at, while I cleaning his cage.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, I would never have thought of poisoning. Great sleuthing! Sounds like this may be the problem. I think I need to get some activated charcoal and some of the gel to have on hand because, thinking back on some of ours, poisoning may have been a problem we didn't recognize.

I'm really happy to hear you got whacked!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ron,

Great detective work alright. I'm glad you have a clue to what this bird has been going thru, the poor thing....

I only hope that when/if the time comes to release him that he will not be poisoned again since it is in the same vicinity, where his family is.

Good thing he didn't get a chance to feed the kids before he hot sick.

Thank you for everything you have done to help him, and happy wing slaps and grunts....until we meet again!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so glad he is feeling better. Great job, Ron.
Keep us updated.

Reti


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

*Uh-Oh - a new egg*

Hi all, I just got home from work and saw the kids and mom sitting together. I was happy to see this, but when I went outside to give them some food (the seed Ron left), I saw a new egg  I was hoping (sorry to admit) that this was all going to be over soon and the troop would fly away once the kids learned how to fly, but a new one?! I really have no idea what I'm doing, just following instructions. 

- How much bird seed should I be feeding all 3 of them?

- They only seem to eat the seed when its put on the floor (and not in the bowl)

** I really hope my neighbors or property management DON'T find out because they will fine me (my friend even showed the notice to Ron, so I am telling the truth!)

Kids with the new egg:


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

One thing you can do is to remove the eggs now, before they are incubated and every egg she will lay from now on. If you remove the eggs before she starts incubating them you will not kill anything since the embryos did not start developing yet. Eventually they will move on, hopefully not before her mate gets back home.
Another option is to boil the egss, one at a time, and put them back, so at least you will not have new babies.

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi mhernan,

Well it does stay interesting. You can expect another egg in the next 48 hours. What I do with a pair of unreleasables I have, is to wait for the second egg, then hard boil them, as Reti has suggested, and returned them to sit. Just make sure if you do this the eggs are cooled down to slightly warm, before returning them.

I will have to rely on the others for help here on whether it would be better to remove the eggs altogether, or let the hen sit them. I will also ask other to please help out on the amount of feed you should be providing for the hen and juveniles daily, as with mine I just provide a seed bowl and keep it topped up every few days.

I am not sure of the timing on the return of the mate I have, but I am hoping sooner, rather than later.

All the best,

Ron


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

what does boiling the eggs do?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

mhernan said:


> what does boiling the eggs do?


They won't hatch and she will give up sitting on them after three weeks.
You won't have any more babies and have the cycle continue on and and on and end up with 100 pigeons on your balcony.

Reti


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

*ack*

yup, u were right. I just got home now and there lyes a second egg. I feel real bad about boiling them. I sure hope this is the right thing to do. Thanks.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mhernan said:


> yup, u were right. I just got home now and there lyes a second egg. I feel real bad about boiling them. I sure hope this is the right thing to do. Thanks.


You did the right thing. There has to be some kind of control. Those of us that lofts full of bird have to do this all the time, or else we couldn't keep all the birds that would hatch. 
The birds don't know the difference. They will sit on the eggs for about 19 to 21 days and then when they don't hatch, they'll walk away from them and with in the hour, they'll be mating and ready to go again.  
You can't inject human emotions into these guys. They don't see the eggs not hatching as a "bad" or "sad" event. It just "is".........and they go on. 
Trust me, it "feels" worse for us than it does for them.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks so much guys for the support. I'm boiling one egg now, and then I will boil the other one. It was hard at first because the kids were just looking at me (they've all been taking turns sitting on the egg). 

I'm curious, once she realizes after 3 weeks that these eggs don't hatch, and after she goes off to mate with some other pigeon, is she gonna come back to my balcony again? And then i have to keep boiling the eggs all summer?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

mhernan said:


> - How much bird seed should I be feeding all 3 of them?


I'd suggest about two tablespoons each if you are feeding once a day. That should be sufficient, but I tend to overfeed and would probably be putting out about twice that amount  

Terry


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

well the babies (I mean kids) are learning to fly. I feel like a proud aunt or something. They are also doing something funny with their feathers It looks like they are moulting, I'm not sure, but they are picking at their feathers a lot and making them go "full" at times, like a shiver or something. I don't know. 

In any case, mom is still with them.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mhernan said:


> Thanks so much guys for the support. I'm boiling one egg now, and then I will boil the other one. It was hard at first because the kids were just looking at me (they've all been taking turns sitting on the egg).
> 
> I'm curious, once she realizes after 3 weeks that these eggs don't hatch, and after she goes off to mate with some other pigeon, is she gonna come back to my balcony again? And then i have to keep boiling the eggs all summer?


If you don't want her coming back, it's best to remove everything that she could percieve as a nesting spot. I would suspect that she might come back, but if she finds a new mate, then HE may pick the nesting spot. Hard to tell really.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mhernan said:


> well the babies (I mean kids) are learning to fly. I feel like a proud aunt or something. They are also doing something funny with their feathers It looks like they are moulting, I'm not sure, but they are picking at their feathers a lot and making them go "full" at times, like a shiver or something. I don't know.
> 
> In any case, mom is still with them.


The kids (that's what we all call ours too ) are picking the sheaths off of the feathers as they grow out. Then the shaking or shiverying is to send all that "stuff" flying off of their bodies.


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## mhernan (Apr 11, 2007)

Ooooh, thank-you so much Renee for explaining that. I don't have to worry then - yeah!


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Glad to hear that Mom and the kids are doing well, thanks for the update. 

Dad id stable, but still is still suffering from ataxia. I am hoping this will pass before too long. He has settled in a little and now preens himself occasionally during the day and still grumps and wing whacks when I change his cage. I will keep everyone updated.

All the best,

Ron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

This bird has been with me for three weeks today, so I thought I would do an update on him.

All in all, he is doing fairly well, he is self-maintaining himself and he has gone from about 320 grams up to his present 345 grams. After the initial few days of good progress, in terms of him being able to stand and get around, although with some bad imbalance problems, after being treated for poisoning with the activated charcoal and supplements, his progress has kind of leveled off since. 

He has issues with what looks to be muscle weakness, while standing he will all of a sudden lose strength in his legs and starts to collapse backward, but he does catch himself and manages to stand upright again. He can not perch at all, he will fall of a 3/4" perch immediately. If he over-the-shoulder preens, he will fall over to the side, as it seems shifting his weight on to one leg alone is too much. The same with wing stretches, as he tries to bare his weight on one leg to stretch, over he goes. I will say that I do think there are some very small incremental improvements with this, as instead of immediately falling over, it seems as compared to say a week ago, it now takes a second or two. Also, his gait is quite unsteady when he walks, however, there has been some improvement in this as well, but the improvements are, as I say, very slow in coming.

I have him outside for a few hours everyday where he helicopters and gets to exercise and hear the noises and excitement other wild birds around him at our backyard feeder, which he seems to enjoy.

Since I was not sure beyond an uncertainty that he was poisoned, I did start him on a course of Baytril just in case he was suffering from the nervous form of Salmonellosis, which according to D.A. Palmer in his book Pigeon Disease And The Vet, lists indications such as he was presenting as similar symptoms for this infection.

I , like many here, have had no first hand experience rehabilitating a poisoned bird, so I am unsure of what the length of his road to recovery will be, or how far along the road he will make it before the improvements stop or he is fully recovered. I have been doing some searches/reading and it seems the one reference I did find on Avitrol poisoning mentions improvements measured in the 1% at time rate. Mhernan, when you read this, it doesn't look like he will be able to make it back in a time frame that will allow him to rejoin his family, much to my disappointment, but he is safe and on the road to recovery, albeit very slowly mind you, but I am still hoping for a full one.

All the best,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, thank you for the "hopeful" update. From his picture, he looks very good and I think, although his recovery may slow in coming, he will make it. As long as he can keep those bright eyes, there is hope.

Thank you so much for all that you do for both pigeons and us.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Well, I feel this guy is finally almost ready do go home. He has been with me for a little over two months now and I must say that after his initial large improvement when I first got him, after poison treatment, it has been a slow road back for him. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when I was reading up on Avitrol poisoning, there was a site that mentioned recovery improvements coming in the 1% at a time scenario and that is what I did find to be the case, at least with this little guy anyway.

Last week he started to be able to wing stretch steady on one leg, without falling over or faltering and tonight when I went to check on him I found him on the perch in his cage for the first time. He had tried a number of times in the past to perch and just did not have the leg/foot strength to do so and now does, without effort. The ataxia has resolved and only thing I now really see is now in terms of symptoms is a slight hesitation when he first hops onto his brick or off, but outside of that he looks to be back to normal. I figure I will give him a few more days to lock in his latest improvements and off he goes.

My intentions where to release him back to where I got him, but I did have a few concerns so I thought I would get some feedback on them. The first is that mhernan recently made a post regarding contractors coming to clean off her balcony and there where babies. I did not reply to the thread, as she PMed me and I replied with the same advice that was in the thread, but did not hear anything back. 

Now when I got Davis (I started to name new birds after the street or area where they came from, this guy happened to come from Davisville Ave.) there where two juveniles still there with their mother, about four weeks old. The mother did lay another set of eggs shortly after I got Davis, which on our recommendations where boiled to stop any more new birds at the nest and I thought the plan was to clean everything off when the juveniles had fledged. I was surprised when I saw the contractor post as the original juveniles would been long gone, mherman had boiled the second set of eggs, so this must mean, I think, that the hen did take on a new mate and is still rearing them there. I did inquire into this in my reply PM as well, but did not hear back as yet. I am happy for the concern mherman has shown all along for these birds, perhaps work and life allowed things to go a little different than planned.

So I guess the questions I have are since the building where Davis lived is not a safe place for him to be, between the new war on pigeons policy at the building and him being poisoned in the area. On top of that, his mate has formed a new union, so would it be better to release him into “my flock”, they are about 5 miles from where Davis lived or let him go where he is from (what are the odds he will try and make his way home). I know we can’t protect them once we release them back, but this is the first time that I have had to perhaps release a bird back to a place I was unsure of and I want what would be best for him. 

Right now he is not at 100%, but close to it, I could keep him another period of time and make up the final few percent, but I am thinking he is more than fine to make up the little that is left in the wild (if anyone disagrees please chime in, as it would be no problem to keep him a while longer, he just is starting to seem restless and I know what that means).

Ron


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Congratulations on Davis*

He is looking so good. You've done a marvelous job!! 

I don't think I'd release him at his old home. The life is too risky there and his mate has moved on to another. I doubt if he could stand another round of poisoning. 

I think you should start working on a poisoning thread that could be turned into a sticky. You've been successful in providing the supportive care and have been able to observe the recovery of this bird and that information could be so helpful for others that may find a bird in similar straits. 

BTW, good tip about kitty litter as an absorbing medium for poisoning. I hadn't thought of it as an organic compound binding medium (which is kinda dumb of me since I used to do clay mineralogy), but there are certainly lots of open sites on a clay molecule. Do you think that a very thin slurry of potter's clay or slip would work as well? I can't imagine it any less "pure" than cheap kitty litter, and it's a lot harder to find the stuff without any scents or "deodorizing" ingredients (and when it comes to kitty litter, I'm as cheap as I can be  )


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I imagine that just about wherever you release him, he'll try to go home. I kinda' doubt you're going to be able to stop that.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Releasing is the worst part of rehabbing.

Ron, personally, I would release him with your flock. I don't think he will stay there but it is worth the chance. A few years ago we rescued an adult from "the bridge" who was really sick. We kept him for a few months and then released him where we release all the birds (it has old buildings, a stream, trees, even bridges) but the problem was it is only about 2 miles from the bridge he called home. When Lewis went to the bridge the next day, he was there and stayed there for about the next 5 years until we never saw him again. He was easily recognized so we knew for a fact it was the same pigeon.

I don't know what to tell you about keeping him awhile longer but, maybe, if you keep him an additional month, it will just further improve his chances of survival. I honestly don't worry as much about the adults being released as I do the ones we get in as squabs/fledglings because the adults are already savvy in the ways of the wild.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

> I think you should start working on a poisoning thread that could be turned into a sticky. You've been successful in providing the supportive care and have been able to observe the recovery of this bird and that information could be so helpful for others that may find a bird in similar straits.
> 
> BTW, good tip about kitty litter as an absorbing medium for poisoning. I hadn't thought of it as an organic compound binding medium (which is kinda dumb of me since I used to do clay mineralogy), but there are certainly lots of open sites on a clay molecule. Do you think that a very thin slurry of potter's clay or slip would work as well? I can't imagine it any less "pure" than cheap kitty litter, and it's a lot harder to find the stuff without any scents or "deodorizing" ingredients (and when it comes to kitty litter, I'm as cheap as I can be).


Mary, I think a sticky on poisoning might be a good idea. They use fuller's earth to make clay kitty litter and I know this type of clay can be recommended to use in cases of poisoning. I would don't know if I would recommend using potter's clay as I don't know enough about its composition and there could be variables in its composition, depending on where it's sourced from.



> I imagine that just about wherever you release him, he'll try to go home. I kinda' doubt you're going to be able to stop that.


Pidgey, that's what I kinda figured as well.



> Ron, personally, I would release him with your flock. I don't think he will stay there but it is worth the chance.


Maggie, that's what I think I may end up doing, as you say you never know. If he doesn't, I am not worried at all, in the sense that the distance to where he used to live is not that great, and if this guy could survive for as long as he did as messed up as he was, he truly does know how to survive out there. I do think I will keep him for a while longer, as you suggested, and let him make up the last little ground so he is 100% when I release him, and yes it is hard to send them back no matter how long you've had them.

All the best,

Ron


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