# hawk attacks



## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

hi folks.got a photo of this huge hawk that has been coming in every day and killing pigeons.i have been thinking about not feeding anymore because of the death and drama to my pidg's.he gets one a day .yesterday i spooked him off and he dropped his pigeon who flew off and smacked the neighbors house and broke his neck  Its gotten very bad over the last few days.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

I feel so sad for you and your babies. George keeps telling me that it's just nature and they're just doing what they are supposed to do, but it's really hard for me to have any compassion for hawks


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

Ya, the cooper hawks are moving through, I saw two yesterday flying around my loft.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I despise cooper hawks. They are really horrible killers. On top of which, oftentimes...since they are too small to haul their victims off to a safe place, they will end up killing but not consuming because they have to eat where they kill, meaning they often get spooked away.....so it's not like they have gotten anything out of it. Just another killing.

This one has figured out that the pigeons get fed there, everyday.

You need to stop feeding them....or in the very least, change the time of day you feed them (significantly...like, by several hours). And perhaps change the location you feed them (also significantly, like by 100 yards or more).

You may even wanna spook the flock away from the normal feeding place/normal time of feeding so they get the idea that mealtime has now been altered.

I am sorry. It gets very hard to change your habitual feeding pattern....but the flock needs you to do that because that hawk will just keep coming back. It was probably scoping out that location, daily, for a good week before it started killing.

You could buy one of those canned airhorns...the ones which make a loud, obnoxious sound. Whenever you spot it, use it. They tend to not like that.


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

What I have been doing is letting the flock come in and eat ,then spooking them off before they are done because I am so nervous of this hawk.We also have a coopers hawkthat comes thru but he hasnt done any damage yet.This enormous hawk is brave and I have spooked him away so many times but he now seems to consider this his feeding ground.I live in town and my property isnt really big enough to move the feeding area.I get about 50 or 60 pigeons in the morning.they come eat seed at the feeder and then theres a handful of them that have figured out which window is mine and they do fly bys until i toss out some handfuls of peanuts .This morning i watched them eat and then scared them away.I feel so guilty.My pidges love me and i feel like i am betraying them,but the slaughter has to stop.what i guess i am going to have to do is stop feeding here.im going to dump some seed tonight at some pidge hang outs. Really bummed out


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

I just don't get it! Pigeons have done so much for mankind (saved our butts if you get right down to it) and yet this is how we repay them by calling them "rats with feathers" and protecting their killers. That's not right.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Is it true that the Hawks are really building up their numbers in city regions in the US now, or is this more of a seasonal thing? An American friend of mine was commenting about it the other day, though she's not a bird lover. She just said they seem to be breeding up and killing everything in sight.


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

Hawks and such raptors are on top of the food chain yet they're protected species.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

pigeon_is_love said:


> hi folks.got a photo of this huge hawk that has been coming in every day and killing pigeons.i have been thinking about not feeding anymore because of the death and drama to my pidg's.he gets one a day .yesterday i spooked him off and he dropped his pigeon who flew off and smacked the neighbors house and broke his neck  Its gotten very bad over the last few days.


Where are you located?
I am not flying my birds, this is a real bad time of year. I learned that last year.


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

you know i have a question on this subject, sometimes often i'll have falcon come and sit right on top of my fly pan during daylight, obviously hoping for a meal under the wire, meanwhile there is at least 30 ferals 200 yards away in walmart parking lot....why not attack them????


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Is it true that the Hawks are really building up their numbers in city regions in the US now, or is this more of a seasonal thing? An American friend of mine was commenting about it the other day, though she's not a bird lover. She just said they seem to be breeding up and killing everything in sight.


I'm not trying to sound paranoid or anything, but helping the hawk population increase by protecting it or even helping to develope it is a very cheap way for cities to reduce the pigeon population without the negative backlash they might get from other methods that they may use. I know in my hometown the city killed a huge flock of pigeons in order to develope an area and they got slammed. I think there letting these hawks do there dirty work.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Roman! The younger/juvenile Hawks in my area love watching the caged birds the most. Your falcon might not be skilled enough to catch wild pigeons yet.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> I'm not trying to sound paranoid or anything, but helping the hawk population increase by protecting it or even helping to develope it is a very cheap way for cities to reduce the pigeon population without the negative backlash they might get from other methods that they may use. I know in my hometown the city killed a huge flock of pigeons in order to develope an area and they got slammed. I think there letting these hawks do there dirty work.


I can understand your concerns there. You may find this interesting; I'm from Australia and although we have hawks very similar to your red-tailed and coopers hawks here (plus many others, much larger) they have not encroached on cities the way they have in the USA.

However we essentially have the same issue, where the most aggressive native species of birds have established themselves very well in the cities at the expense of others. 

In our case, the most aggressive birds are the `Australian magpie' followed by crows & ravens. They are extremely ferocious towards raptors and will harrass & intimidate large eagles. If we didn't have them, then the raptors would find the cities more attractive for gathering food. 

What I suspect is that west Nile virus, which annihilated crow populations in the USA, has probably enabled hawks to move into places where the crows once thrived.

PS. Feeding crows is good for your pigeons.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Good to know. Thanks. Are crows, black birds and greckels all the same? I have seen several very large black birds around hanging out with the pigeons and doves. They feed on the cat food that people put on the street for the cats.

I guess it wouldn't be the first time that preditors were used to kill off other species. In the Hawaiian Islands (all except Kauai, they refused) mongoose were brought to the islands specifically to kill off the chicken population. It worked.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If that hawk gets one pigeon a day, either it is a pretty good hunter or the flock of pigeons you have are dumb. Feral pigeons have evolved to be quite hawk immune. They are pretty hawk smart. One possibility I can think of is that you may be overfeeding the flocks so they either get too fat or perhaps they are too hungry that they don't particularly wary of predators so they get killed. You can vary the feeding time to see if it increases your pigeons' survivability.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> I just don't get it! Pigeons have done so much for mankind (saved our butts if you get right down to it) and yet this is how we repay them by calling them "rats with feathers" and protecting their killers. That's not right.


Protecting their killers???

The hawk is doing what hawks do. It seems to me as if the problem is feeding the pigeons at the same time and place every day. Maybe we need to protect the pigeons from reckless feeders!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Birdman79 said:


> Hawks and such raptors are on top of the food chain yet they're protected species.


They are protected because they were hunted almost to extinction by humans. Being on the top of the food chain in their niche doesn't protect them from being shot with a 12 gauge shotgun, because some ignorant farmer was afraid they were eating his chickens.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I've read that the health of the apex predator reflects the health of the general population. For what that's worth.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

ptras said:


> They are protected because they were hunted almost to extinction by humans. Being on the top of the food chain in their niche doesn't protect them from being shot with a 12 gauge shotgun, because some ignorant farmer was afraid they were eating his chickens.


True. I guess though it is a matter of perspective. If you are the farmer that relies on those chickens for food or income and you SEE the hawks killing them... Are you saying that if you have your dog/cat/small child in your back yard and a wolf (protected also for same reason) jumps your fence and attacks it you wouldn't do anything (including killing the wolf if necessary) to save your dog/cat/small child? Would you say it was your fault for having your dog/cat/small child in your back yard in the first place? Sorry, I find that hard to accept. I don't see how this is any different. It's logical that they have to kill, but it doesn't make it any easier knowing that or your fault when it kills something you loved.


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## Keith C. (Jan 25, 2005)

Part of the price of freedom for a pigeon is risk of death by predation. 
If they are being hit on the ground while being fed, I suggest building a low roof over the area they are feeding in.
This will prevent the hawk from stooping straight in. The hawk will still be able to enter it, but if you are there while feeding, it will be hesitant to do so.
The shelter doesn't have to be fancy, just a piece of plywood about 3 feet above the ground should work.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

DDT was the main killer of Raptors( so we could have cheap food ) & now it has been banned & the raptors are back in full force. Quit feeding the wild pigeons which unbalances the laws of nature & gives the raptor a sidewalk cafe to come to for dinner which turns into the pigeon feeder (without them realizing it ) baiting the hawk with these birds. Also please don't generalize the Farmer whose protecting his charges & the bonifide Hunter of which I am one who shoot animals for the outdoor activity & the fresh food harvested & prepared by themselves. We all have to survive in this world & in order to have peace in this world we should all respect each others opinion. I do yours I hope you do mine. )


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Keith C. said:


> Part of the price of freedom for a pigeon is risk of death by predation.
> If they are being hit on the ground while being fed, I suggest building a low roof over the area they are feeding in.
> This will prevent the hawk from stooping straight in. The hawk will still be able to enter it, but if you are there while feeding, it will be hesitant to do so.
> The shelter doesn't have to be fancy, just a piece of plywood about 3 feet above the ground should work.


Excellent idea Keith.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Kiko&Kalani, 

I was wondering if you can be near the pigeons during feeding time too? I know its a hassle, and not everyone has time to do it, but I often find myself having to protect my pigeons when they are eating (at the moment its from a crazy wild male turkey, who won't let them eat if I'm not there). 

I really like spending the time with them, and it gives me a chance to talk to them (so they get used to my voice) and I can see how they are doing. They work out that I'm protecting them very fast, and stay close by. After they have eaten you would need to shoo them away so they they don't stay around waiting to be eaten by a hawk. Pigeons learn these kinds of routines very fast.!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> True. I guess though it is a matter of perspective. If you are the farmer that relies on those chickens for food or income and you SEE the hawks killing them... Are you saying that if you have your dog/cat/small child in your back yard and a wolf (protected also for same reason) jumps your fence and attacks it you wouldn't do anything (including killing the wolf if necessary) to save your dog/cat/small child? Would you say it was your fault for having your dog/cat/small child in your back yard in the first place? Sorry, I find that hard to accept. I don't see how this is any different. It's logical that they have to kill, but it doesn't make it any easier knowing that or your fault when it kills something you loved.


Interesting point of view...but totally irrelevant. Hawks are rarely predators of barnyard fowl. In fact, in the wild, they are rarely the predators of pigeons. Hawks are opportunistic, and will take the easiest meal. By feeding the feral pigeon population, these bird lovers are pretty much setting up a smorgasbord for the hawks. Why should they chase down a bird in flight, or more likely, a chipmunk or field mouse, when there are all those fat happy pigeons spread out in front of them? Take some responsibility, and stop feeding the ferals.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Interesting point of view...but totally irrelevant. Hawks are rarely predators of barnyard fowl. In fact, in the wild, they are rarely the predators of pigeons. Hawks are opportunistic, and will take the easiest meal. By feeding the feral pigeon population, these bird lovers are pretty much setting up a smorgasbord for the hawks. Why should they chase down a bird in flight, or more likely, a chipmunk or field mouse, when there are all those fat happy pigeons spread out in front of them? Take some responsibility, and stop feeding the ferals.


so true.. it is like my mother in law and her bird feeder.. the neighborhood cats were killing the birds at the feeder so she had to stop... common sense I guess, or find a protective place where they are not sitting ducks so to speak.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Interesting point of view...but totally irrelevant. Hawks are rarely predators of barnyard fowl. In fact, in the wild, they are rarely the predators of pigeons. Hawks are opportunistic, and will take the easiest meal. By feeding the feral pigeon population, these bird lovers are pretty much setting up a smorgasbord for the hawks. Why should they chase down a bird in flight, or more likely, a chipmunk or field mouse, when there are all those fat happy pigeons spread out in front of them? Take some responsibility, and stop feeding the ferals.


...But pigeons like to eat on the ground in flocks anyway, whether its rubbish at the local school or seed at someone's feeder.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> ...But pigeons like to eat on the ground in flocks anyway, whether its rubbish at the local school or seed at someone's feeder.


They rarely go to the same place at the same time every day...and get so much free food that they are slower to respond to a predator.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

The only birds I feed are Kiko and Kalani. The birds here is Miami Beach area either fed on the street or on people's balconies. My condo fines people who feed birds from their balconies so I am pushing it just to have Kiko and Kalani in my home and letting them go out onto my balcony. There are lots of people I see putting food for cats and birds under cars on the side of the street and large flocks of birds congregate in those areas. Once a racoon family found the food and one night when I was out walking Romeo I got bit by one of the racoons. What a pain; I had to have 11 rabies shots thanks to that!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> They rarely go to the same place at the same time every day...and get so much free food that they are slower to respond to a predator.


I understand you concerns there. However this is a generalization that may not apply in this particular case.

It sounds like in the OP's situation, there are many different sources of supplement food, and that the OP feeds only two birds, and is worried for them.

In our area, the Hawks only go for the sick pigeons. They may not look sick to the casual observer, but I know my flock well and sometimes i see the signs. So does the hawk. I admit that in some cases the swift death from the hawk has been a mercy compared to the suffering of dying slowly from a horrible disease.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> The only birds I feed are Kiko and Kalani. The birds here is Miami Beach area either fed on the street or on people's balconies. My condo fines people who feed birds from their balconies so I am pushing it just to have Kiko and Kalani in my home and letting them go out onto my balcony. There are lots of people I see putting food for cats and birds under cars on the side of the street and large flocks of birds congregate in those areas. Once a racoon family found the food and one night when I was out walking Romeo I got bit by one of the racoons. What a pain; I had to have 11 rabies shots thanks to that!


 kiko&kalani,
So are you trying to get your two favorite birds to eat in a safe place away from the flock, and you are thinking of trying to get them to eat inside? Or are you thinking of trying to keep them?


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> kiko&kalani,
> So are you trying to get your two favorite birds to eat in a safe place away from the flock, and you are thinking of trying to get them to eat inside? Or are you thinking of trying to keep them?


K&K live and eat inside my apartment and only go out on the balcony for sun. They just started to fly off the balcony (Kiko twice and Kalani once now). They do not belong to any flock, I raised them by hand since they were about 9 days old (are almost 5 months now), so I will not be trying to release them. My delima is whether I can be successful in letting them come and go from the apartment by way of the open balcony door so they can fly and get sun.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> I understand you concerns there. However this is a generalization that may not apply in this particular case.
> 
> It sounds like in the OP's situation, there are many different sources of supplement food, and that the OP feeds only two birds, and is worried for them.
> 
> In our area, the Hawks only go for the sick pigeons. They may not look sick to the casual observer, but I know my flock well and sometimes i see the signs. So does the hawk. I admit that in some cases the swift death from the hawk has been a mercy compared to the suffering of dying slowly from a horrible disease.


My advice was not directed at K&K. She isn't the one who posted about feeding flocks of feral pigeons and seeing them picked off daily by a hawk.

My response about hawks was to K&K stating that it makes her mad mad that hawks can eat pigeons and she can't do anything about it because they are a protected species.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> My advice was not directed at K&K. She isn't the one who posted about feeding flocks of feral pigeons and seeing them picked off daily by a hawk.
> 
> My response about hawks was to K&K stating that it makes her mad mad that hawks can eat pigeons and she can't do anything about it because they are a protected species.


I understand, thanks.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Hey ptras. Did we get each others blood pumping or what? It's alway kindof nice to chat with people with different viewpoints. Keeps it interesting and I almost always learn something new. We're good right?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Hey ptras. Did we get each others blood pumping or what? It's alway kindof nice to chat with people with different viewpoints. Keeps it interesting and I almost always learn something new. We're good right?


We're good for something!


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Don't tell anyone, my perceived uselessness is my best excuse to be lazy.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Don't tell anyone, my perceived uselessness is my best excuse to be lazy.




I like to think that I'm lazy, but at the end of every weekend, I'm always shocked at the amount of work I've done.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2010)

ptras said:


> I like to think that I'm lazy, but at the end of every weekend, I'm always shocked at the amount of work I've done.


if you want them to live a full lifetime its really not work at all


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

One thing is I dont think my flock is dumb as one person mentioned.Nor do i have obese overfeed pigeons....(seriosuly?) We have Oak trees all over that are SO tall,this hawk perches until he sees a chance,or just swoops in.they try to get away,they dont just lay down and get eatten.I hope you dont think Im to blame for this.I mean,I do feed at the same time,but not with much choice.I live in the city in a residential area.Im sure my neighbors HATE me for feeding pigeons.I make sacrifices to feed these birds.money for one,time,hearing alot of 'pigeon lady' remarks.There are hundreds of pigeons in my little city.there are a couple other feeders around town.I livein Maine,its pretty much wilderness overall and hawks and eagles have made a SERIOUS come back over the last few years.Ive also rescued 2 pigeons,released one successfully and still have one who cant be released due to disability.Im no idiot.But i also cant stop the ecosystem.I would do what i could to get him out of here,but ......my guilt lies with not feeding my babes, not with having fat ,dumb pigeons.they are brilliant actually.


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

ptras said:


> They are protected because they were hunted almost to extinction by humans. Being on the top of the food chain in their niche doesn't protect them from being shot with a 12 gauge shotgun, because some ignorant farmer was afraid they were eating his chickens.


They were getting shot by farmers a long time ago.That's irrelevant now it's 2010.Still way too many hawks....


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I strongly suspect that the hawk populations will ease off when the crow populations recover from being wiped out by West Nile virus. But then of course everyone will start complaining about crows again.

Its a shame that people cannot feel more patient with nature, and accept that humans make such an enormous impact on our environment, that very few species can co-exist with us; often its only the most aggressive & intelligent ones that can. 

People seem to harbour the unrealistic expectation that only the `pretty' birds should live with us, who are colored like rainbows, make no mess or noise other than singing opera and playing the loot. Birds like this can't live with us because we destroyed their habitat, and made it unsafe for them.

PS. I not directing this at pigeon lovers, but more commenting on general attitudes I see expressed around me.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah, it's really sad to hear poeple say such terrible things about pigeons. Personally, I think pigions are gorgeous little creatures.  We as a human race, however, do seem to have an unhealthy favoratism for the beautiful. I read a study once that showed that "pretty people" got less jail time for the same crime as less attractive people do. I saw the other day that there is even a seperate dating web site for "ugly" people (not my words, the sites marketing it that way). Sad.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Yeah, it's really sad to hear poeple say such terrible things about pigeons. Personally, I think pigions are gorgeous little creatures.  We as a human race, however, do seem to have an unhealthy favoratism for the beautiful. I read a study once that showed that "pretty people" got less jail time for the same crime as less attractive people do. I saw the other day that there is even a seperate dating web site for "ugly" people (not my words, the sites marketing it that way). Sad.


I feel the same way, K&K. Birds are not objects (which is why we love them so much).


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

pigeon_is_love said:


> One thing is I dont think my flock is dumb as one person mentioned.Nor do i have obese overfeed pigeons....(seriosuly?) We have Oak trees all over that are SO tall,this hawk perches until he sees a chance,or just swoops in.they try to get away,they dont just lay down and get eatten.I hope you dont think Im to blame for this.I mean,I do feed at the same time,but not with much choice.I live in the city in a residential area.Im sure my neighbors HATE me for feeding pigeons.I make sacrifices to feed these birds.money for one,time,hearing alot of 'pigeon lady' remarks.There are hundreds of pigeons in my little city.there are a couple other feeders around town.I livein Maine,its pretty much wilderness overall and hawks and eagles have made a SERIOUS come back over the last few years.Ive also rescued 2 pigeons,released one successfully and still have one who cant be released due to disability.Im no idiot.But i also cant stop the ecosystem.I would do what i could to get him out of here,but ......my guilt lies with not feeding my babes, not with having fat ,dumb pigeons.they are brilliant actually.


I am the person that speculated on your pigeon as probably obese or starving or dumb birds. You can mention my name and not be so generic. I can take it. Yes, you are contributing to their deaths by feeding them at the same time and at the same place. The hawk figured your activities already. In fact as the hawk perched, it is studying those weak birds and you. In the end this is what will most likely happen. Your birds will continue getting killed. Then the frequency will decrease as the dumb or young or old birds will get selected out of the ecosystem. Then you will notice that those birds that got left behind becomes hawk smart/aware and maybe a little bit flighty. Then you become happy. Believe me I like those people that care and help these birds. I have rescued 3 ferals myself.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> I feel the same way, K&K. Birds are not objects (which is why we love them so much).


Hawks are birds too.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Hawks are birds too.


Um...Thankyou Captain Obvious.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

RodSD said:


> I am the person that speculated on your pigeon as probably obese or starving or dumb birds. You can mention my name and not be so generic. I can take it. Yes, you are contributing to their deaths by feeding them at the same time and at the same place. The hawk figured your activities already. In fact as the hawk perched, it is studying those weak birds and you. In the end this is what will most likely happen. Your birds will continue getting killed. Then the frequency will decrease as the dumb or young or old birds will get selected out of the ecosystem. Then you will notice that those birds that got left behind becomes hawk smart/aware and maybe a little bit flighty. Then you become happy. Believe me I like those people that care and help these birds. I have rescued 3 ferals myself.


 this statement you made to me makes no sense at all when you have a habit of releasing your birds into the very same inviroment daily knowing full well that hawks are always about ,being hawk smart doesnt keep the birds from dying any less ,hawks dont only take the less fortunate birds or fat birds they grab any opportunity that will arise at any given moment smart or not.. hawks are savy ,brilliant birds with a very patient driven stalking nature ,with their tactics and attacks they will wait for the very second any pigeon is off guard be it a smart,fast or pigeon of a less wary nature .. telling someone they are contributing to the death of their wild flock is kinda of cold when one flys their flock full well knowing their birds can and will be attacked at any given moment .. it all comes down to which is the lesser evil if you ask me .. nature is a brutal thing that will always come down to preditor and prey  where there are birds there will be hawks trying to eat them .


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> ut oh.. time to catch all the worlds birds feral and domestic and lock em up!


you lost me there .. just stating why give someone a guilty Conscience for doing something good for the birds when people that have birds in a loft dont even keep their birds safe from preditation.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> you lost me there .. just stating why give someone a guilty Conscience for doing something good for the birds when people that have birds in a loft dont even give their birds protection .


he just mentioned feeding at the same time and place can cause problems...which makes sense... so change things up for the ferals see if it helps... my birds eat in their loft..so not sure how that is the same..


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> he just mentioned feeding at the same time and place can cause problems...which makes sense... so change things up for the ferals see if it helps... my birds eat in their loft..so not sure how that is the same..


there is no safe time to feed pigeons outdoors who are you kidding .


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> he just mentioned feeding at the same time and place can cause problems...which makes sense... so change things up for the ferals see if it helps... my birds eat in their loft..so not sure how that is the same..


what do your pigeons have to do with it at all?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> there is no safe time to feed pigeons outdoors who are you kidding .


"when people that have birds in a loft dont even keep their birds safe from preditation."

well if Iam " people".. just saying, I feed in the loft... they do not.. so feeding pigeons outside can cause problems... that is what he was saying...


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> "when people that have birds in a loft dont even keep their birds safe from preditation."
> 
> well if Iam " people".. just saying, I feed in the loft... they do not.. so feeding pigeons outside can cause problems... that is what he was saying...


rod has a big problem with hawks everyday yet he flys his birds all the time and they get hit by hawks all the time , whats that go to do with you feeding your birds in your loft at all?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> rod has a big problem with hawks everyday yet he flys his birds all the time and they get hit by hawks all the time , whats that go to do with you feeding your birds in your loft at all?


I know nothing about his flying of his birds.. when pigeons are gathering and eating they are far more at risk to an attack.. I did not read where the ferals where flock flying and being attacked.. but only when feeding them..outside..


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I know nothing about his flying of his birds.. when pigeons are gathering and eating they are far more at risk to an attack.. I did not read where the ferals where flock flying and being attacked.. but only when feeding them..outside..


 Ferals will always flock fly in groups and have no safety net from hawks at any given time ,no matter where they go or what time they get there to eat ,there is always going to be birds of prey looking for a quick meal ,theres nothing more to say about it ,changing up times just means they will get taken at other feeding spots if not at yours ,its not like hawks dont know where to find them .


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

*wow*

Sure Rodsd i can call you out for being a jerk if you prefer.It was a wierd reply from someone who hangs at a pigeon site claiming to love pigeons( i imagine.)I am shocked at the way some of you folks answer posts.In the past it was much more enjoyable and realistic and professional.Ive been feeding ferals for about 5 years.should i never have fed them because hawks exist?I saw the same hawk going after a flock of 10 or so pigeons 2 miles from where i live,is it my fault?? I manage my own flock,rescue anything in need,have cared for birds in one way or another for 17 years.For some reason I thought coming here would bring out the pros, the ones who know the business.If i wanted to hear from a wise guy i can do that anywhere. Next I expect a reply from you with some insults and bizarre comments, but just dont bother,and youre not the only one.someone elses comment made it sound like i put food out and call hawks in on a bullhorn to let them know its meal time.get a grip people.this is nature here.so in the end 5 pages of posts ,i get this : run out and scare them off as the best answer????? Even if i never put another seed down,these pigeons are still coming here every day and still live outside and are always at risk.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

pigeon_is_love said:


> Sure Rodsd i can call you out for being a jerk if you prefer.It was a wierd reply from someone who hangs at a pigeon site claiming to love pigeons( i imagine.)I am shocked at the way some of you folks answer posts.In the past it was much more enjoyable and realistic and professional.Ive been feeding ferals for about 5 years.should i never have fed them because hawks exist?I saw the same hawk going after a flock of 10 or so pigeons 2 miles from where i live,is it my fault?? I manage my own flock,rescue anything in need,have cared for birds in one way or another for 17 years.For some reason I thought coming here would bring out the pros, the ones who know the business.If i wanted to hear from a wise guy i can do that anywhere. Next I expect a reply from you with some insults and bizarre comments, but just dont bother,and youre not the only one.someone elses comment made it sound like i put food out and call hawks in on a bullhorn to let them know its meal time.get a grip people.this is nature here.so in the end 5 pages of posts ,i get this : run out and scare them off as the best answer????? Even if i never put another seed down,these pigeons are still coming here every day and still live outside and are always at risk.


 I personally agree that you should continue to feed your flock anyway you see fit , life has been going on all around us for millions of years wether we are aware of it or not . Im sure your flock appreciates it as much as you do feeding them  as far as for hawk deterrants the way I see it is , if birds of prey are not afraid to attack things right in front of us humans what makes one think anything else will work ?


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

Thank you.I feel the same.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

It is funny what will bring out the responses hawks, chicken wire, rats, etc. This is what brings out the people and their comments. I would hope that feeding your flock would be a good thing. No one wants rats in the lofts so we need to work on rat proofing them. And for my last rant Chicken wire in not the best that for sure but is that all you have or can afford then that what you have and telling someone that they don’t like their birds is just wrong. This is a support and information board so let’s support each other. Just my thoughts.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

GEMcC5150 said:


> It is funny what will bring out the responses hawks, chicken wire, rats, etc. This is what brings out the people and their comments. I would hope that feeding your flock would be a good thing. No one wants rats in the lofts so we need to work on rat proofing them. And for my last rant Chicken wire in not the best that for sure but is that all you have or can afford then that what you have and telling someone that they don’t like their birds is just wrong. This is a support and information board so let’s support each other. Just my thoughts.


 I think a lot of the "discussion" is the way some folk type their replies, not often read or interpreted the way it was intended when written, also others just do not see past their own ideas which has worked for them. Everyones situation is different, but their own experiences determine their views. Those experiences are to be learned from by those that want the best for their birds, and obviously avoiding any risks is the best way to safeguard them to ones best abillity.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

Quazar said:


> I think a lot of the "discussion" is the way some folk type their replies, not often read or interpreted the way it was intended when written, also others just do not see past their own ideas which has worked for them. Everyones situation is different, but their own experiences determine their views. Those experiences are to be learned from by those that want the best for their birds, and obviously avoiding any risks is the best way to safeguard them to ones best abillity.


and some people just like to get a rise out of others too


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> and some people just like to get a rise out of others too


_* I think from what I have read you have hit the nail on the head*_


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Just getting back to the original question, Hawk attacks on my flock virtually ceased when I was providing supplement food to a orphan crow, which attracted a small flock to my back yard. I still feed them, and they protect the pigeons by warning them when hawks are around and chasing them off.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

That's a way to keep Hawks away. Got to love crows and ravins


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> and some people just like to get a rise out of others too


I suppose that is why you singled out Rodsd?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

GEMcC5150 said:


> That's a way to keep Hawks away. Got to love crows and ravins


according to Lakota there is no way to keep them away...

I thought the changing up of feeding spots and times would help but I guess the experts know best.. so lets go with nothing can be done...


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

pigeon_is_love said:


> Sure Rodsd i can call you out for being a jerk if you prefer.It was a wierd reply from someone who hangs at a pigeon site claiming to love pigeons( i imagine.)I am shocked at the way some of you folks answer posts.In the past it was much more enjoyable and realistic and professional.Ive been feeding ferals for about 5 years.should i never have fed them because hawks exist?I saw the same hawk going after a flock of 10 or so pigeons 2 miles from where i live,is it my fault?? I manage my own flock,rescue anything in need,have cared for birds in one way or another for 17 years.For some reason I thought coming here would bring out the pros, the ones who know the business.If i wanted to hear from a wise guy i can do that anywhere. Next I expect a reply from you with some insults and bizarre comments, but just dont bother,and youre not the only one.someone elses comment made it sound like i put food out and call hawks in on a bullhorn to let them know its meal time.get a grip people.this is nature here.so in the end 5 pages of posts ,i get this : run out and scare them off as the best answer????? Even if i never put another seed down,these pigeons are still coming here every day and still live outside and are always at risk.


You forget that your original post was "hi folks.got a photo of this huge hawk that has been coming in every day and killing pigeons.i have been thinking about not feeding anymore because of the death and drama to my pidg's.he gets one a day .yesterday i spooked him off and he dropped his pigeon who flew off and smacked the neighbors house and broke his neck Its gotten very bad over the last few days."

Seems to me you received advice you asked for and then rejected it.


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

what i rejected was the idea that i was doing something wrong.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

pigeon_is_love said:


> what i rejected was the idea that i was doing something wrong.


So...you only wanted positive feedback?


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

ptras said:


> You forget that your original post was "hi folks.got a photo of this huge hawk that has been coming in every day and killing pigeons.i have been thinking about not feeding anymore because of the death and drama to my pidg's.he gets one a day .yesterday i spooked him off and he dropped his pigeon who flew off and smacked the neighbors house and broke his neck Its gotten very bad over the last few days."
> 
> Seems to me you received advice you asked for and then rejected it.


ptras you are better off keeping your birds in at this time of year , I know in this thread it doesnt apply to captive bred birds but if you are an owner of pigeons you would be better off not flying your birds til the end of march since thats when the wild birds come back from their migration and add to the birds of prey food source which helps us with bird to fly them outside our lofts.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

pigeon_is_love said:


> what i rejected was the idea that i was doing something wrong.


 pigeons is love I commend you for feeding those birds , at least they are able to find a place to eat which in turn helps them keep up the energy to outfly a bird of prey when they must ,its no different then people filling their feeders for any other wild bird in the yard...The hawks around me use feeders as a feed source and they go from one to the next until they are able to grab a meal , they are very crafty resourceful birds with one mission in mind, to capture anything they can to get them thru the day .


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> this is exactly what I was talking about about people trying to get a rise out of others


It seems to me that all of the posts trying to "get a rise out of others" are coming from you. We've heard your opinion...we understand you don't like Spirit Wings...you can stop now.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

ptras said:


> It seems to me that all of the posts trying to "get a rise out of others" are coming from you. We've heard your opinion...we understand you don't like Spirit Wings...you can stop now.


wow !! I think you read wrong then some look for anything I have to post and harps on it, so tell me how is my info wrong on this topic to you ? honestly would you rather hear from someone that deals with hawks or one that doesnt ? oh wait your right ptras my 20 plus years of dealing with hawks to her 2 years of not dealing with them at all is my way of just hating on how she has nothing but crap to say to others on a topic as brutal as this !


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> wow !! I think you read wrong then as she looks for anything I have to post and harps on it, so tell me how is my info is wrong on this topic to you ? honestly would you rather hear from someone that deals with hawks or one that doesnt ? oh wait your right ptras my 20 plus years of dealing with hawks to her 2 years of not dealing with them at all is my way of just hating on how she has nothing but crap to say to others on a topic as brutal as this !


If you think this is such a brutal topic, why do you keep advising the original poster to keep feeding the birds, and telling them that they are doing the right thing?

Seems to me that you have become very defensive, and have lashed out at anyone who disagrees with you.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> .. as for crows they tend to help some areas not so much in the fall and winter seasons since they arent rearing any young , they mostly have a conflict with redtails which rarely try and take ferals compared to the sharpshined and coopers hawks which I have never seen a crow attempt to even thwart off .. .


Thanks for the info about American crows, and how they interact with the various raptors in your area; I am a bird lover and I find it very interesting learning a bit more about your birds. So thankyou!

Australian crows are a bit bigger and sound more aggressive than American crows,. They will go for really big raptors including sea -eagles, and they do this all year round. And yet when even they see me they fluff themselves up and start crying at me like they are little babies I love those guys.

I wish I could be more helpful . I personally think you're doing the best thing with feeding the pigeons. I've seen what starvation does to a pigeon, and how badly they suffer from the diseases and parasite infestations they get towards the end. Whereas hawk attacks typically result in a swift death and provide food to a beautiful native animal (in my opinion).


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks for the info about American crows, and how they interact with the various raptors in your area; I am a bird lover and I find it very interesting learning a bit more about your birds. So thankyou!
> 
> Australian crows are a bit bigger and sound more aggressive than American crows,. They will go for really big raptors including sea -eagles, and they do this all year round. And yet when even they see me they fluff themselves up and start crying at me like they are little babies I love those guys.
> 
> I wish I could be more helpful . I personally think you're doing the best thing with feeding the pigeons. I've seen what starvation does to a pigeon, and how badly they suffer from the diseases and parasite infestations they get towards the end. Whereas hawk attacks typically result in a swift death and provide food to a beautiful native animal (in my opinion).


bella I appreciate hawks too ,I at one time owned a redtail hawk before I released it ... my only thing is the eating birds while they are still alive part that bugs me , that truely gets to me like no other , all one has to do is own pigeons for a short while and the knowleged comes wether one wants it or not ..like I said crows have their own agenda , they fight hawks while they are fighting for their nesting area but come fall and winter all have fledged and they surely dont hang around or defend that space like they would during the summer and spring months ... I love all birds wild and domestic alike and wish not a one harm but there is a time when people have to decide when they want to do whats best for the birds that are in their care and fall and winter months are truely brutal for those that keep pigeons in general because those are the times when hawks are at their worst .


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

I find it so funny how no matter what you have to offer here people with no help at all will attack you for it and yet the people that want to argue the advise you have are the ones that come away with some sort of credit even thou they had nothing to offer at all ...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> ... I love all birds wild and domestic alike and wish not a one harm but there is a time when people have to decide when they want to do whats best for the birds that are in their care and fall and winter months are truely brutal for those that keep pigeons in general because those are the times when hawks are at their worst .


Hugs, I totally sympathize. I have sleepness nights when my wild flock of pigeons are suffering and I can do nothing about it. For me its usually because of curable diseases that take down half the flock, but so far I haven't found even one vet or wildlife carer who will help them or give me some medicine. So I have to watch them get sick, suffer, and die slowly every single time. 

I bring them inside when they are too weak to fly, to make their death peaceful & comfortable, and occasionally one surprises me by pulling through. But, yeah....it totally eats me up watching them suffer. I'm in tears for days. So I do really understand how you must feel when there are too many hawks around, and thinking of your guys being subjected to a violent death.

I really wish I knew of some way to help


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

pigeon_is_love said:


> Sure Rodsd i can call you out for being a jerk if you prefer.It was a wierd reply from someone who hangs at a pigeon site claiming to love pigeons( i imagine.)I am shocked at the way some of you folks answer posts.In the past it was much more enjoyable and realistic and professional.Ive been feeding ferals for about 5 years.should i never have fed them because hawks exist?I saw the same hawk going after a flock of 10 or so pigeons 2 miles from where i live,is it my fault?? I manage my own flock,rescue anything in need,have cared for birds in one way or another for 17 years.For some reason I thought coming here would bring out the pros, the ones who know the business.If i wanted to hear from a wise guy i can do that anywhere. Next I expect a reply from you with some insults and bizarre comments, but just dont bother,and youre not the only one.someone elses comment made it sound like i put food out and call hawks in on a bullhorn to let them know its meal time.get a grip people.this is nature here.so in the end 5 pages of posts ,i get this : run out and scare them off as the best answer????? Even if i never put another seed down,these pigeons are still coming here every day and still live outside and are always at risk.


First, you are the very first person whoever called me a jerk for no reason at all. All I have mentioned is factual. There is nothing in my post that I said you have to stop feeding your birds. I was actually offering an alternative ideas so that your feral don't get killed.

Second, you are so bold as to accused me of not loving pigeons and contributing to the demise of this website because of people's response and attitude. What facts do you have to support that? Have you read all my posts? I prefer that you read all my posts before making any stupid conclusion.

Third, don't tell me about nature and ecosystem and natural selection. I am a freaking biologist. You study those the first year in college years.

With respect to my problem with hawks I do still get predated. But their death rate is now becoming less because natural selection is working. I am obviously talking about my homers. Those ferals that you mentioned have a worst life being outside so they should have evolved to be smarter now.

Finally, what kind of pros are you looking for? Are you looking for pros that don't tell you straight, but sugarcoat answers? I am not those kinds. I say things because I know them factually or have basis to say so.

So my conclusion is that you are out of line in your remarks and I take offense with it. And although I seldom get pissed because I like to believe and understand people your status in my eyes went really down. I usually don't prejudge people, but based on your statements and conclusions I can only believe that you don't like hearing other people's opinions that contradict yours. The worst part is that I offered my viewpoints to help you in your pigeon problem, but was taken as offensive. Am I really that offensive?! If so I will stop answering any of your posts and I wish to apologize for any offenses.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> this statement you made to me makes no sense at all when you have a habit of releasing your birds into the very same inviroment daily knowing full well that hawks are always about ,being hawk smart doesnt keep the birds from dying any less ,hawks dont only take the less fortunate birds or fat birds they grab any opportunity that will arise at any given moment smart or not.. hawks are savy ,brilliant birds with a very patient driven stalking nature ,with their tactics and attacks they will wait for the very second any pigeon is off guard be it a smart,fast or pigeon of a less wary nature .. telling someone they are contributing to the death of their wild flock is kinda of cold when one flys their flock full well knowing their birds can and will be attacked at any given moment .. it all comes down to which is the lesser evil if you ask me .. nature is a brutal thing that will always come down to preditor and prey  where there are birds there will be hawks trying to eat them .


1.)Being hawk smart birds increases their chance of surviving. It doesn't imply that they become immune and don't get killed.

2.)Hawks, like any other animals, have varying intelligence. That is why some are successful and some are not. I forgot the percentage, but very few adult hawks survives the first 1-2 years of its life.

3.) if you take a fat bird and a normal bird on the ground and scares them, the fat bird will have difficulty taking off. The hawk will target that so being fat is a disadvantage.

4.) No, I don't exempt myself from contributing to my pigeons' deaths. I release my birds knowing full well that when they are outside they are at the full mercy of nature and I have less control. Obviously the safest is to just keep them inside away from the outside world.

Finally, since you and I know a lot about hawks because we learned from first hand experience, I always wonder why some of your statements are black and white. And If I may add I don't try to ruffle feathers if you've implicated that to me. I am not that type of person to try ruffling feathers. Ruffling feathers to me shows immaturity. Unfortunately sometimes telling hard facts seems to ruffle people.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

RodSD said:


> 1.)Being hawk smart birds increases their chance of surviving. It doesn't imply that they become immune and don't get killed.
> 
> 2.)Hawks, like any other animals, have varying intelligence. That is why some are successful and some are not. I forgot the percentage, but very few adult hawks survives the first 1-2 years of its life.
> 
> ...


I have found that the best way to deal with people who continually bait others is to put them on my ignore list. I did so with a person responding to this thread after receiving a PM continuing the tripe that was going on here. Now all I see from them is: This message is hidden because #*****#*** is on your ignore list.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2010)

RodSD said:


> 1.)Being hawk smart birds increases their chance of surviving. It doesn't imply that they become immune and don't get killed.
> 
> 2.)Hawks, like any other animals, have varying intelligence. That is why some are successful and some are not. I forgot the percentage, but very few adult hawks survives the first 1-2 years of its life.
> 
> ...


 Rod you are right I shouldnt have said anything and I apologise for anything harsh I had to say about you in my earlier posts, it just really used bother me alot when reading about how your birds would get attacked everyday .. The whole hawk thing is a very touchy subject for me but I will refrain from making any further comments about it..ferals will always live a very short lifespan as you indicated , it is the very course of nature.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Back on PAGE 1 some great solutions were suggested....
1.change location OR feeding times.
2. build a small shelter - nothing elaborate. 
For Christ's sake, we are all pigeon lovers here and nobody wants to see them killed by hawk's! We can only fully protect the birds that are enclosed in a loft....no one can protect all feral's if you choose to feed them. You can only modify things to give them a better chance.
I don't see where any of the suggestions were 'out of line'


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, to stop feeding the ferals isn't really going to help them, as they have come to depend on the food you have been giving them, and they may have a hard time finding it elsewhere. Changing the time might help, but then if they are used to a particular time, then they may not even be around at other times of the day. Feeding them and staying while they eat to try to chase away a hawk is probably all you can do. Not so easy to move them to another location, and even if you do, the hawks will find them there. I feed a feral flock, and for the last couple of years, during winter they just stopped coming. I don't know where they find food, all I know is that when they return in the spring time, half the flock is gone. They probably starve to death, and the rest probably get caught by predators. This year I have put a roof over the feeder that they go to, so that even in the sleeting or snowy weather I can fill the feeder and it will stay dry. They can stop by at whatever time they feel is safe, or when they are really in need of food. Some will get caught, and I hate that, but not feeding them is worse, especially with winter coming on. Nothing you can do about it. 
And even though Rod seems to think that "either the hawks are really good hunters, or the flock is just dumb", try to remember that starving birds will take chances that they may not take otherwise. That doesn't make them dumb. They are only trying to survive. Without the food, they will die. Especially as it gets colder outside, so they have no choice. They must take the chance.


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## skyler95 (Nov 21, 2010)

Hello, I'm a new member here.

I had planned on releasing a young white pigeon across the street from my home last week. I feed a flock there daily and hoped he'd join them. (When I found him he was very thin and coated with what I believe was Tanglefoot.) I took him out in a carrier to let him get a feel of the area and he seemed to want to go. So I put him on my terrace in a carrier to get him accustomed to the cool weather. I left the house to go to the store and my super told me there was a huge bird in the garbage room so I went to have a look. There was a big hawk, it seemed to be about 3 feet tall and there was a half-eaten pigeon on the floor, still alive even though its insides were ripped out (sorry to be graphic). The hawk took off and flew out the door, leaving me to put the pigeon, who was in obvious agony, out of its misery. I was quite upset and went upstairs and took the pigeon I'd planned on releasing back in. It is getting progressively cooler (I live in Brooklyn, NY) so I'm at a loss as to what to do with this bird, who is not at all happy in the cage I've been keeping him in.

I should add that I am also caring for an apparent PMV bird, who has been in my bathroom for 6 weeks in a rabbit cage, I have a pet 4 year-old pigeon, whom I found when he was a squeaker, 2 Maltese rescue dogs, a cockatiel and 2 budgies. So I'm a tad overwhelmed in my 3 room apartment. If not for this hawk encounter, I'd have released the bird I mentioned but it seemed like a sign not to, at least at that time. Winter is fast approaching and I would love to free this guy.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Far out skyler95, That sounds like an Eagle that you had there, rather than a Hawk. 3 ft tall is huge!!

Do your pigeons like one another & have they been introduced? If they get on, maybe having a pair is a blessing, since the companionship could make their lives a lot happier? Its just a thought that popped into my head, anyway.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would be nice if you could keep him, as a white pigeon stands out and would be noticed quicker by the hawks, as he is different from the others. What about New York City Pigeon Rescue Central?
http://nycprc.org/
I wonder if they can help.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Lokotaloft,
I am cool with it. We all know that the only thing we can do with our pigeons is to minimize hawk attacks/predation when they are outside. Yeah, I know that you are quite passionate about hawk discussions.

Jay3,
If you have read all my posts in this thread I also speculated about the bird's hunger overriding their safety. But you are correct, a hungry, weakened bird is no much to a predator. I, too, feel bad about birds during the winter. Winter is very cruel to animals in general.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Welcom to PT skyler95. You sound like you have a great heart to rescue all that you have. If New York Pigeon Rescue Central can't help maybe you could start a new thread in the general discussion using a title about needing help from someone in the Brooklyn area. There might be a member who would be able/willing to adopt your latest rescue. Whatever you decide, Good Luck!


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

Honestly I am sorry to ANYONE I offended.I was just looking for a serious solution.I didnt really WANT to stop feeding.I suggested it out of desperation but I dont think it is best for the flock in ANY WAY.They have been feeding here for years and I cant imagine taking that away,yet to watch the last scene play out was overwhelming.I am sorry to Rod,your post just rubbed me wrong because I didnt know if it was a joke or sarcastic or what.I just didnt find humor in my serious situation.I can figure out most situations myself so when I come here I just expected something other then that.Hope you accept my apology.What I really care about is my birds,and there has not been an attack that I have seen since my post.Havent seen him lurking around.FOr now things have cooled off at the feeder.Less flock as I did scare them away for a few days,ive been getting maybe 30 or 25 now.This question was not a bait question to spark some large group disagreement,obviously -


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Pigeon is love,

I think I asked you this earlier, but is there any way you can make time to guard your birds while they are eating? I have a pair who I have been guarding for over a month now; initially it was because her feet were tied together and she could not stand, and all the cocks would jump on her making it hard for her to get any food. 

She is doing better now, but we now have a wild turkey around how who chases them, so I stand between the turkey and the pigeons (who also eat with some wild ducks) so they all get their food. Its a hassle, but it works.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pigeon_is_love said:


> Honestly I am sorry to ANYONE I offended.I was just looking for a serious solution.I didnt really WANT to stop feeding.I suggested it out of desperation but I dont think it is best for the flock in ANY WAY.They have been feeding here for years and I cant imagine taking that away,yet to watch the last scene play out was overwhelming.I am sorry to Rod,your post just rubbed me wrong because I didnt know if it was a joke or sarcastic or what.I just didnt find humor in my serious situation.I can figure out most situations myself so when I come here I just expected something other then that.Hope you accept my apology.What I really care about is my birds,and there has not been an attack that I have seen since my post.Havent seen him lurking around.FOr now things have cooled off at the feeder.Less flock as I did scare them away for a few days,ive been getting maybe 30 or 25 now.This question was not a bait question to spark some large group disagreement,obviously -


no do not feel bad... you wanted perhaps a solution.. Lakota perhaps wanted to say there is not one.. because the predators are out there anyway.. and others had just some suggestions to help... in the end the only thing is what you feel is right and what you should do.. and use common sense... I get hits at my own bird feeder and I lay off for a bit.. that is all I can do.. there is no real answer to the delimma... because it is mother nature..


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

pigeon_is_love,

Your apology is accepted. It seemed that we started at the wrong foot. I think we should try again (in a good way). We will chuck this is as a misunderstanding on both of our parts. We share the same passion for these birds as we know it. Of all the pets I had in the past, the pigeons are the most fascinating to me. I also understand when someone calls you a bird lady. My old neighbor called me the "bird man" before. I think some of my neighbors find me "weird" for having pigeons as pets. They all have dogs. But they seem to be "cool" with me for having pigeons.

As for the hawk and your pigeons, I am glad that there are some good news from you. I wish them all luck in the world. And, yeah, calm down, take a breath next time before you say something that you may regret later on. But when you said you were overwhelmed by your experience I actually beginning to understand the whole situation. Yeah, having pigeons is overwhelming sometimes. My apologies again if I ever offended you!

rod


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks Rods.I appreciate that and aploogy definitly accepted. Bella- I do try to stay and watch them eat but sometimes I cant.they usually come as we are getting ready in the morning for school or work.I keep an eye on them,but at times have to shower,etc so occasionally I would see a pile of feathers. I am dumbfounded as to where the hawk has been for the last week.He got to be almost as regular as the pidges.So yes I try to watch but cant ALWAYS watch.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Some hawks migrate. Some may find other places where they are successful. Some just don't make it. They roam around for easy meal. Your experience is normal. It will still be back if it still alive. One thing I am sure is that once your flock become hawk smart/aware, the hawk don't feel like wasting its time to chase them. It will just pass thru. Obviously it will try sometimes, too. New hawks will try though just to test them.


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## pigeon_is_love (Jul 18, 2007)

you are right.saw him back this week.


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