# New Pigeon Owner: Need Information



## Foxtain (Jul 8, 2016)

Hello! For about two years now I've always wanted to get into birds. They've fascinated me and they're the most amazing creatures, in my opinion. When I was younger I had two lovebirds and a parakeet, but this would be the first time I've gotten birds for sometime. 

I decided that I would like to be able to help birds in whatever way I could, so I checked all the bird rescues and sanctuaries near me. Unfortunately they all turned me away, with a pat on my head, and said: "You're too young.". I'm currently 16, almost 17. 

I currently reside in California but am going to be moving to Washington State come middle/late August. Due to the fact that I will now have a very big yard with plenty of space for an aviary, I've decided that I'd like to adopt a couple pigeons or doves.

So I have a few questions 

1. Is the climate of Washington okay for Pigeons/Doves to live in? It's very rainy and almost never clear skies, from what I've heard.
2. Would you recommend a Pigeon or Dove for a new owner?
3. Any general tips on building an aviary? Information like, what material(concrete, stone, grass, dirt) the aviary should be build on would be very useful.
4. How common are avian vets? Are they typically more expensive than your normal dog/cat vet?
5. Also related to money, does anyone have an estimation for the monthly costs of keeping one to two pigeons/doves?


Any other information for a new adopter would be great! Thanks so much!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Of course a pigeon! Doves are more flighty and nervous usually. 
Pigeons are kept all over the world. As long as they have a clean dry loft, where they can go to be out of the weather, they are good. Out of drafts of cold air, also. The loft should have more perches than you have birds, and a nest box for each male. I like wood floor for the loft. It can be easily scraped, and keeps things from getting in. A raised loft is good. Keeps it up off the ground, which keeps it drier. A connected aviary where they can get outside into the sun and fresh air, to bathe and sun themselves. Good air ventilation in the loft, and any windows or aviary wire should be heavy hardware cloth with spaces no larger then 1/2. Otherwise, rats and other predators can and will get in and can kill your birds. 

The aviary should be on the south side, so they do get sun when it is out, even in Washington. Maybe more so in Washington. LOL.
Dirt for the floor in the aviary does allow things to dig in and get to the birds. Some put the hardware cloth stretched across for a floor and cover that with sand. Or if it is raised off the ground, then a wire floor. 
Aviary vets are around, but not nearly as easy to find as say for cats and dogs, and a bit higher in price usually. Good to have a relationship with one though in case of emergency. Some avian vets won't see pigeons. Some will. 
As far as expense, once the loft and aviary are built, and the few medications that you can pick up here and there for the common things, it then is just a matter of feed. Lots of different options here. Some might cost $40 for a 50 lb. bag, while some cost $20. Depends on what you buy and where you live. You will also need a good pigeon grit and some oyster shell for calcium. A bag of pigeon seed will last a long time for a couple of birds. You can buy a pigeon and dove mix in most grain places or pet shops in small bags and add a few things to it to make it more designed for a pigeon. 

You will get a lot of opinions on housing and feeding. So just consider them all and decide what makes sense for you. 
Welcome to pigeon talk...............nice to have you here. You will learn a lot. We do have a section on lofts that you may find interesting. Many different people have many different kinds of lofts.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are some vets located in Washington


Avenue Veterinary Clinic
Dr. Bruster
5039 Pacific Ave
Tacoma, WA
(253)472-3359

Paws Inc.
Lynwood, WA
(425) 787-2500 ext 817
MUST call first. Will only take pigeons if they are not full with 'native' species.
They may be able to make a referral.

BIRD and EXOTIC CLINIC of SEATTLE
4019 Aurora Ave N
Seattle, WA
206-783-4538

Washington (Rehabbers)

Sarvey Wildlife Center
PO Box 3590
Arlington, Wa 98223
360-435-4817


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## Foxtain (Jul 8, 2016)

Thank you so much! Will definitely keep this in mind!

Also, do you have any recommendations/tips for adopting Pigeons? How do I know if the pigeon I'm adopting is in good health? And if possible should I try to keep two birds at once?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How many were you planning on having? They do better in pairs. How to tell if they are healthy is hard to explain. I would try getting them from a reliable breeder or keeper.
Look for one with bright clear eyes. One who is active, and not sitting hunched up or puffed up on a perch. One who is a good weight and feel when you pick it up, but that is something you will have to learn from experience. If the keel bone (breast bone), is sticking out and sharp, then he is under weight and doesn't have enough muscle mass on his chest. Could be sick, young, or just need fattening up. So you need to look at all these things. 
If one has pigeons and is bringing in a new bird, the new bird should be quarantined for a month before putting in an already established flock. Gives you time to worm it and dust or spray for lice or mites that may be present. And you can watch for any signs that the bird may be sick. You don't want to add a sick bird to your flock and have them all get sick, which has happened. 

If you are planning on flying them, then several birds together are much safer than just a pair. That's why they live in flocks. More eyes to watch for predators.
If you don't plan on letting them breed, which they will do quickly, you should get some fake solid plastic pigeon eggs, which you can get online at pigeon supply places. When they lay eggs, (usually 2), you simply replace them with the fake eggs. Pigeons sit on the eggs for about 18 days to hatch them, but if you were to just take their eggs, the hen will lay right away again in order to replace them. In doing this, she will soon deplete her body of much needed calcium stores. So by giving them the fake eggs, they will probably sit on them, for the 18 days, which gives her a break from laying. So those are good to have ahead of time.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

What side of the mountains are you going to be on? Are you going to be in Eastern Washington, where it gets way colder in the Winter, with lots of snow, and triple digit temps for the Summer? You also would have to remember that Seattle side does not have the poisonous snakes. I am from Washington, so I can tell you it does rain a lot, but not as constant and heavy as we often joke about. It does get muddy though, and our cold is that wet cold, making it seem worse then it is. Seattle side, (Western) most of the time the temps are 30 degrees at night with a high of 40- 50 during the day. With rain. We are drier May - October. It can get really cold during the Winter, the last few years we have gotten down in the teens at night. Eastern gets a lot of snow, as in feet, (in parts, but most of the area still gets at least a foot for a long period of time) during the Winter. And it gets really cold, mostly low teens and below. Summer is often in the triple digits, and they have an issue with snakes. Western side - our issue is hawks and coyotes. I say this, because the people on here can help you determine and execute a plan (loft - aviary) better then I can, as I have two pigeons, but they are house pets.

The climate over here is suitable for pigeon keeping, but keep in mind you will need to find a way to provide heat for them during the colder months. I think you will do wonderfully, especially since you are thinking ahead and preparing for them before hand. With the help you will get here, I have no doubt you will have a great set up for your birds, and I hope you enjoy having pigeons. Those who may have said you were to young before, are misinformed. Your preparedness clearly shows your maturity. You should be proud of yourself. 

If you are looking to adopt you might look on the adoption page, and see if there are any that are up for adoption near you. Other options include the Humane Society, and notifying wildlife rescues that you would be interested, as pigeons are not helped, but usually euthanized, when they go to such places. There are many qualified breeders that are reputable, but first you would have to know what kind of pigeon you want. Have you decided what you want, and what you plan to do with them? Do you want to keep them as pets, or do you want to fly them? 

As for vets, well, I would make sure to ask around. I was new to birds as well, and my pigeons were treated with a bit of a stigma. Ask locals who have birds what vets they use, and call first, and make sure to say what kind of bird you have, first. I will say, that Jay3 listed vets I contacted. In my experience, the Tacoma, Seattle and Arlington vets, had the nicest, most willing to treat and knowledgable vets. In the end I was able to find a vet who I was happy with, but it took quite a few phone calls, and I talked to a lot of different people about who they would recommend first. It was quite a bit harder finding a good vet for them then it is for a dog or cat.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Wiggles and puddles. First I need to say that any of those vets listed were checked into and called when the list was made. The only vets added to the list were vets that would see pigeons. And if they only saw pet pigeons, then that notation was made. So unless things have changed, or they have changed their practices, they should be good contacts. But I realize that things do change over time.

Also, cold or not, most don't heat their lofts, and they live in lots colder places then Washington. So heating isn't a requirement. I think it's nice, but not necessary.


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## Foxtain (Jul 8, 2016)

@Wiggles and Puddles
Hi Wiggles and Puddles! Thank you for the response 

I'm going to be living two hours south of Seattle, so I assume that would be Western. According to my future landlord they do not see much snow, if that is any indication. So I assume that I am on the Western side. If hawks and coyotes are my only concern, then that is good considering that is pretty much what I had to deal with living in California. Mind you, I've lived in both North and South so I've had my share of critters.

I'm also not sure how to provide heat for them, if that's necessary for where I'm going to live. Do you just need a generator or?

As far as what type of pigeon I want, I am unsure. I'm pretty new to the pigeon scene, and the only specific kind of pigeon I've heard about is the King Pigeon. If you have any recommendations as far as breed or type goes, I'm open to suggestions(I dont know if Pigeon breeds work in the same as dogs or not..). As far as what I want to do with them, my main goal is to adopt 2-3 pigeons to give them a good home(Two minimum). I know a lot of birds get euthanized and I want to help as much as possible.

And yeah I figured I'd have to call around vets anyway. Luckily, as I mentioned before, I will live about two hours south of Seattle so that is good!


@Jay3
I was expecting to have at least two, and perhaps a third if I have both the time and resources to take in another. I ask about breeders because, due to how new I am to the whole bird community it's hard to tell who's reputable and who isn't. I will keep in mind the things you mentioned though, thank you! 

Also, since both you and Wiggles and Puddles mentioned this, I don't really know what "flying" your pigeon means. Do you mean just letting them go, or taking them out like on a walk or? I'm sorry if I sound silly haha... And yes I was expecting to have to prepare for some anti-breeding. My whole goal is to help out birds who don't have homes, and breeding them seems kind of counter productive huh  . 


Also, does the gender of bird you get matter? Is it okay to keep pigeons of all the same gender, or opposite gender? In my experience with both cats and dogs, males tend to be more docile than females. Keeping females together generally isn't a good idea either. Is this dynamic present in birds, or does it not really matter?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You won't find male pigeons to be more docile. Usually females will get along, males are more likely to fight. You really need an even amount, even if all female. They will often pair up if no males around, and each should have a companion, to reduce stress, or there could be fighting over a mate.

By flying, we mean letting them out to fly. If you just have a couple of pairs, then you are better off not letting them out freely to fly. Hawks will grab them for lunch. Having an attached safe aviary, made with heavy gauge 1/2 inch hardware cloth is a great way for them to enjoy the fresh air and sunshine and be safe at the same time.

It does matter what kind of pigeons you get if you were planning on flying them, as some breeds aren't very good flyers, and therefor more likely to be hawk bait. 
If these are just pets and rescues, then it doesn't matter what breed they are, and you can mix them also. Pigeons are usually happier in groups, which is how they live in nature.

As far as heat, no, you don't want it if you need to use a generator. They are loud anyway, and keeping it going all winter is impractical. You would need electric running to the loft, so think about that when you decide where you are going to put the loft. As I have mentioned, most don't heat their lofts, but some do. I do, as I spend time with my birds and wouldn't be able to do that in the winter months. It's also lots easier to scrape and clean a warm loft, than one in freezing temperatures. I use an oil filled radiator type heater that I can set to keep the loft at a temp I like. It does cost a bit to do that in the cold weather, as they still need good ventilation, so you are heating air that you are letting out with open windows and all. I try to keep mine at about 50 degrees. If it is a very small space then lots harder to heat. How large of an area are you talking about? For only 2 to 4 birds, your area may be too small to heat. Unless of course, you use a small shed. Without heat, you would either need to use waterers that will not let the water freeze, or change it a couple of times a day. Lots to think about that maybe you haven't considered. As you go along, different things will come up.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Where we live it gets really hot and cold so our four pigeon girls live in a shed with windows, an oil filled electric heater, small air conditioner and an air cleaner. Suggest pairs of females if you don't want to breed. If you just have a few would not let them out to fly because of the vulnerability to predators.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bear in mind that with more females, you do have the chance for more reproductive problems. Breeding is easy to control with fake eggs.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Hi Wiggles and puddles. First I need to say that any of those vets listed were checked into and called when the list was made. The only vets added to the list were vets that would see pigeons. And if they only saw pet pigeons, then that notation was made. So unless things have changed, or they have changed their practices, they should be good contacts. But I realize that things do change over time.
> 
> Also, cold or not, most don't heat their lofts, and they live in lots colder places then Washington. So heating isn't a requirement. I think it's nice, but not necessary.


With regard to the vets, I was just giving some information as to what my personal experience was with the vets you listed, nothing more. See as how she may choose to use one of them, I thought it may be helpful to get some insight from someone who had personal experience with them, that is all. With the heat in the loft, well, like I said, I am not the person to go to in that regard, as I just have 2 house pigeons, so people like yourself are going to be great in helping this new pigeon owner in creating a loft. I recommended heat, because it does get very cold, and depending on where you are in the state, you could get a lot of snow for a very long time.

Foxtain, from where you described where you will be living, you sound like you will be in the Puget Sound area, perhaps near Tacoma, Bremerton, or Gig Harbor, depending just how far from Seattle you are going. You are definitely in the Western part of Washington, so we get mostly rain, though we do get some periods of deep freezing cold during the Winter. We rarely get much snow, and we do not have snakes this side of the mountains, so that is good. I hate snakes!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't have any snakes? Non at all?


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> You don't have any snakes? Non at all?


Not in Western Washington, with regard to poisonous snakes, no. Eastern Washington has rattle snakes, but they have never came across this way. We have northwestern garter snakes, but we don't see them often, and when we do they are very small. I have a lot of land, because I have horses. I personally, in all the years I have lived here, have never seen one longer then my fore arm, or thicker then my thumb. They eat crickets and such. I made a point to look all this up, because as I said, I REALLY HATE SNAKES!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay, but it doesn't have to be a poisonous snake in order to get into a loft and eat eggs and babies.
I don't like snakes either.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

True. But I thought she was getting adult pigeons? My concern for her was if she had adult birds, then she needed to be aware if possible rattlers on the other side of the state. The garter snakes here would have a hard time trying to swallow a nickel, but yeah, I could see a possible threat to eggs, and maybe, just hatched babies. Good thing to be aware of, if she wants babies in the future. Another reason to hate snakes. Good thinking!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What about rat snakes? Do you have them? They eat adult pigeons. Anyway, if a snake can get in then a rodent can also. You have to be so careful.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

No, we do not have rat snakes. The only snakes over on this side is the garter snakes, thankfully. I know rodents are terrible. I am fortunate that I have my two house birds inside, and I don't have to worry about that. Pigeons are so vulnerable.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

My sister in Florida opened a nest box where a family of birds had been living, and found that they had been eaten. Very sad. Ya gotta hate snakes.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

That is horrible!!! I am so glad we don't have anything like that here! It is huge! Those poor birds!


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## Pidoveis1# (Jul 14, 2016)

Looks like a yellow rat snake, I have one, Florida's equivalent to the black rat snake. I got him from outside,he's a little one too.  make great pets...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Cold blooded animals that would as soon bite you as look at you, and eat little warm blooded animals and birds, are not my idea of a pet.


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