# Why do parents let thier kids chase pigeons?



## TitanicWreck

Whenever I am on the Boston common feeding pigeons, like clockwork, parents with a child will appear, and the child will run towards the pigeons, frightening them...The pigeons, which where trying to eat, would take to flight....I really wish parents would tell thier kids this is cruel, as it does nothing more than terrify the pigeons and cause then great stress.
One might as well have a world where pigeons teach their young how fun it would be to dive bomb towards humans...
Leave our fine feathered friends in peace...
The thing that really bother me are people who try to kick pigeons....
I see teenagers do this all the time, chasing the pigeons and trying to kick them befoire they can fly away..
I saw a grown man in a buisness suit kick a pigeon...
This could seriously injure, if not kill a pigeon...


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## photokev

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

I'm often driven to anger over human treatment of many types of animals and birds. We as a species espouse how intelligent and virtuous we are - but I learned a long time ago to go more by what a man does than what he says. The reality is, we as a species routinely torture, kill and cause great suffering to the other inhabitants of this world. (including ourselves) What's worse is we do it in the name of recreation and vanity.

I think it's so sad that so few of us really exercise compassion when we have the opportunity or make ourselves available to do it. Witness the postings on this board where people have rescued or tried to rescue an injured bird and all the people who then post follow-ups thanking them for making the effort. They're thanked so profusely because an act of unselfish compassion is the exception today and not the rule.

If you'd like to learn more about abuses and get involved in animal issues follow this link
http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/a_time_to_mourn_and_to_fight.html


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## TitanicWreck

I agree....
I have a coworker who expresses his 'love' for animals by hunting and shooting them...
Very sad..


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## feralpigeon

Hi all,

I'd like to throw one more ingredient into the mix....recreation, vanity, and
of course "freedom" or "democracy.  

On a constructive note, a couple of times, I've been able to engage kids who are being abusive, in conversation, and given them food that I had to let them feed the pigeons. The first instant, was a father and daughter, and he was delighted to have his daughter get the opportunity to feed them and began instructing her to be gentle w/the birds. I think he was having more fun than she was although she got into it. The second instant was a bored kid closer to tenish, and he got into it as well. He had been throwing rocks at the pigeons accross the street who were feeding on scraps. I asked him why he wanted to do that? Said they were eating over there but wouldn't eat what he had thrown down. Turns out he had tried to feed them candy. I gave him some seed and the first throw got them right at our feet. He was so happy. He wanted a bird for a pet. He was waiting for his parents outside the grocery store. In talking about it all, he decided that he could talk his parents into letting him get a pet bird if he got onto the honor roll. I don't know if he will end up pursuing his plan, but thoughts can be like a well traveled road.
The more he thinks about it and plans for it, the more likely he is to get to 
his goal.

fp


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## pdpbison

Hi photokev,

Very well said...


Recently, I took my young ( but not 'baby') Duck to a Park for a little outing. This duck was brought to me for having been found limping and upset and starving in a park here, where, my guess, was that someone dumped it there.

Anyway, after a few days of good food, rest, and sleeping next to my ribs or head, the young duck seemed vivid, even tempered, interested in everything and happy. So, I thought we might do a little outing to a large park where I know many Ducks hang out at a large pond.

As the young Duck dutifully follwed me on our walk, many groups of children or early teenagers gathered to excitedly ask if it "bit"...and or to try aggressively pokeing at it with sticks, or slideing into it doing their show off 'Home run slide" or something, so, I had to keep grabbing my little Duck and moveing on.

I saw no young ducks anywhere on the water or in the park, I saw no baby Ducks ( or Geese for that matter)...and eventually we went to a far area where there were no people and grazed on Mulberry Seeds pods for a while. I tried some first so see if they seemed allright, and in fact they were quite good.

Anyway...the insensitivity of most city children likely derives from the dehumanization and violations to which they themselves have been subject, and which they internalize variously to eneact upon others of all kinds. These grotesques become then the adults who we encounter every day in business or whatever context.

It is possible that the sore thigh and general anxiety of the little Duck when found by the people who brought him to me, was from being kicked or bruised from insane and alienated children or others grotesques of de-humanity's cultural norms.

In the long run, Ghandi might also have observed, that how people treat other species, will be seen to be merely a somewhat sublimated or subterfuged or displaced version, of how they in fact do and will treat eachother, or, of how they felt (or feel they themselves are) treated. They will do this reliably, as parents, to their own children, as well. This may be seen as a compulsion even, which overtakes what otherwise is their capacity for 'reason' in other terms.

It used to be said that the 'National Passtime' of the United States was 'Baseball'...but it seems to me, that it is the vicissitudes of emotional trauma, and, the impulse to inflict it on others, or exploit it in others in one disguise or revenge or another.




Phil
Las Vegas


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## TitanicWreck

Good postes!
I just can't get over the GQ buisnessman I saw in a tie and on his cellphone, drop kicking a pigeon that walked by..He continued talking on the phone as if nothing had happened....
Why would he do that? The pigeon was minding his own buisness, not hurting anyone..The pigeon flew away, so I don't know what sort of internal injuries were sustained...


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## Feefo

That casual kicking at pigeons really upsets me. I am certain that a lot of the pigeons that I find with wing damage have been kicked . I feel like casually kicking the person that has done it to see how they react.

Cynthia


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## photokev

Hey Phil,
I understand the concept of continuation where it applies to victims of abuse wanting to abuse something even weaker than them, BUT that's just an excuse and to be honest, I'm all "excused" out when it comes to peoples actions these days. People, even children, understand when they're hurting something. They also know it's wrong. 

I think parents and society have both failed children. Parents of this generation are more into being "friends" with their kids because it's easier than being parents. Society tell kids that they're each "special" to make them feel good about themselves. I think society should be teaching kids that to be considered special, they need to "act" special. You aren't automatically special, "you are what you do". True self esteem is built on individual accomplishments. Any act that's above and beyond makes you special, even a small one like noticing an injured bird and trying to help it when a hundred people have walked by it and done nothing.
Whatever sociologist that came up with that whole "your special" concept should really have thought it through a little more. If a person doesn't have to do anything to be considered special, they wont, why make the effort. It seems like the kids of today just feel like they're owed something.

And then there's the whole role model thing...
I was telling a friend about the young pigeon I rescued from drowning and another man (I use the term loosely) from the building I live in walked up and listened in. He said "You know what I do to pigeons when I catch em in the building?" I told him to stop right there, whatever he was going to say, I didn't want to hear. He was quiet for a second and I continued my story then he literally got in my face and blurted out "I kill em!" My first instinct was to bash his teeth in but I composed myself, and instead, I told him "each of us move to the dictates of our own conscience. some people choose to cherish life in all it's forms and some of us are so self centered we don't care about anything but ourselves." I also added that I guess he needed to do whatever it took to feel like a man given what a looser he was. (I was upset) I also added that if he EVER hurt an innocent animal in front of me it would probably make me irrationally angry, he knows I'm an ex marine and that the threat actually carried some weight. He'd stopped grinning at some point and backed up. I got my point across (without going to jail) and later he apologized in private. The point to all this i guess is that this was a grown man behaving like this... When we as adults exhibit this kind of behavior and brag about it, how do we think our kids will turn out?

The right thing to do when we see activity like this is to tactfully ask the person "why did you do that?" Adult or child, it makes them question their behavior and also lets them know someone saw it and disapproved. It plants a seed.

I'm rambling, I'll stop. This is just a hot button item with me.


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## Garye

*I agree with you whole-heartedly on this thing...*



photokev said:


> I think parents and society have both failed children. Parents of this generation are more into being "friends" with their kids because it's easier than being parents. Society tell kids that they're each "special" to make them feel good about themselves. I think society should be teaching kids that to be considered special, they need to "act" special. You aren't automatically special, "you are what you do". True self esteem is built on individual accomplishments. Any act that's above and beyond makes you special, even a small one like noticing an injured bird and trying to help it when a hundred people have walked by it and done nothing.
> Whatever sociologist that came up with that whole "your special" concept should really have thought it through a little more. If a person doesn't have to do anything to be considered special, they wont, why make the effort. It seems like the kids of today just feel like they're owed something.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for sticking up for pigeons. They need people like you. I'm glad you were able to make that man realize what he had said was wrong and apologize.


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## TerriB

*The big picture*

Awesome posts! You all have presented a lot of food for thought. As much as I care about the birds in my care, there is a greater need to encourage and foster a general respect for life.

My neighbor and her daughter came over to see my garden. While we were back there, I brought them into the flight pen and gave each a handful of treat seed. They thought it was neat how gentle the bird were when pecking the seed. I tried to explain why Bliss and Mieke were inseperable (courtship phase) and why Piper wanted to chase me away from his nest box (new eggs), but I don't think it registered.


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## Lin Hansen

Hi Photokey,

You just keep on with your rambling....excellent post! Right-on observations!

I work in an elementary school and I see this kind of thing everyday. Children are catered to and treated with "kid gloves," in almost every aspect of their lives these days. Having them experience any kind of disappointment is something to be avoided at all costs. Any kind of problem and Mom or Dad rushes in to "fix" it, instead of letting the children learn that there are consequences to their actions. It is a shame because when they grow up and enter the real world, it is going to be a rude awakening.

Another thing that gets my goat is that the "problem children" are especially catered to while the well behaved children get lost in the shuffle. Most months our "Student of the Month" bulletin board is a "rogue's gallery" of the worst behaved. How did they earn this award?....usually by actually sitting in their seats, not talking out of turn, or not knocking someone flat that month. And the children that behave themselves everyday are usually not acknowledged. Why? Because without them clamoring for all that negative attention, they are easy to overlook. It's a shame.

I'm sorry, I know this post has nothing to do with pigeons, but Photokey pushed some of my hot buttons too..LOL.

Linda


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## Garye

WOW. I had no idea schools were honoring students this way. What a shame. Yes you are correct. They are in for a VERY rude awakening when they grow up and enter the workforce if someone doesn't reach them and make them understand bad behavior will not only not be tolerated, it will cost them dearly.


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## TitanicWreck

What insightful postes!
I never realised the pigeon community consisted of such an intellectual bunch!

Most people I have seen that try to kick pigeons tend to be older--Is it becuse the pigeon is hated, or an innate desire to inflict pain on a small animal?
I don't know.....

Recently a Massachusetts town was planning to leave out pigeon poison, as it was argued 'they poop too much'.

Well, that has changed and they are looking for non leathal alternatives....

I head to work at 5am, and always smile when i see the pigeons are up and about at the crack of dawn....
I bring along seed and bread to give them breakfast-


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## Lin Hansen

Hi TitanicWreck,

We knew all about that town in Massachusetts....hopefully, we had a little something to do with changing their minds:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9454
and
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9475


Good thread you started here!
Linda


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## Victor

*Thumbs up on this Thread!*

Very insightful topic indeed. So many good points presented here, and yes I think it DOES pertain to pigeons and all animals for that matter. There seems to be a lack of respect and decency in society today. 

Dr.Laura would be proud of all of you here.


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## elvis_911

I'm glad pigeons here cant be mis-treated as easily, they are very frigid and scared. 

For example if i see a pigeon 10m away it'll automatically fly away.

Where you all live the pigeons are basically domesticated ! lol.. i've seen the movies they all walk by you, not even frightened.

here, they live in the tall buildings downtown...and the way they'll come to you is if you feed the regularly.

theres a historic place where pigeons were going to be poisoned but this pigeon feeder took them to court with a huge petetion.


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