# West of England Color ID



## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Hello!

I am needing a bit of help identifying some colors. I'm trying to understand how the genetics works but I'm afraid it's going to wind up as a random grab-bag special. Can anyone help me with these? Also, I am looking for a breeder in OK that could help me with breeding techniques, selecting for show, etc.


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

These chicks came from a Black Mottled and a Yellow Mottled (female) pair.


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

first two are ash reds next one almost looks like a andliusion but hard to tell if the last bird keeps his wings folded under his tail not recommended a fault


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

I thought Andalusians were blue? This bird is a very dark red, or dark brown color. I will have to get better photos today. 

The one standing on the perch is is the same color throughout. 

The one being held in my hand is very, very young so I'm uncertain as to his/her conformation.

How can both the dark red and the more blonde sibling both be Ash?

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand! Thank you for your help!


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

the two in the nest look ash red the one in your hand is ash red the one on the perch is hard to tell yellow is a dilute so you may have a cream in the nest which is dilute of ash red or it could be what is called lavender mottles start out almost solid colored sometimes but as they get older molt more white in these are all young as you can tell by there eyes have not turned white yet


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

in nest bowl you have a red velvet or t-check red and a lavender which is spread red, the one in your hand is red velvet, one on perch looks to be a dun to me which is dilute black.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

The first bird in the series is a dun (dilute black). The cock bird that produced that bird had to carry dilute and one of the pair had to carry spread. If the hen is the yellow you mentioned this bird could be a cock or a hen.

As loftkeeper said the one in your hand and one of those in the nest is ash red. The other bird in the nest is also ash red, but carries spread. A spread ash red can be any where from a deep red mahogany to a light silvery gray. It would depend on the pattern below the spread. The spread ash youngster looks like it is a bar. If these two youngsters are out of the same pair that produced the dun in the first picture they could carry dilute. The spread ash baby looks like it may be a dilute too. The dilute babies have short down in the nest.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

We must have been typing at the same time. 



horseart4u said:


> in nest bowl you have a red velvet or t-check red and a lavender which is spread red, the one in your hand is red velvet, one on perch looks to be a dun to me which is dilute black.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

Chuck K said:


> We must have been typing at the same time.


right  it happens. at least we agree on the colors  they are pretty birds. I have been getting some nice odd colors finally in homers, I got my first recessive red and its nest mate is a silver, indigo grizzle splash.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

horseart4u said:


> right  it happens. at least we agree on the colors  they are pretty birds. I have been getting some nice odd colors finally in homers, I got my first recessive red and its nest mate is a silver, indigo grizzle splash.


I have raised rollers for years, but in the last four or five months I picked up five homers. I am going to give them a try. I got the first one at a swap meet, and to be honest the only reason I got her is that she is a true brown. 
I got what I thought was a yellow cock at the same time, but it turned out to be a large hen. I just had to get a couple of cock birds to go with them, but I found another hen I wanted in the process.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

The bird in the nest on the right. .. appears to me be brown spread dilute aka khaki. And looks like grizzle also.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Print Tippler said:


> The bird in the nest on the right. .. appears to me be brown spread dilute aka khaki. And looks like grizzle also.


see that's what I thought too, but I assumed I was wrong as no one else mentioned it.

If it is ash red/yellow/lavendar - why is its tail such an even khaki? Is it the photo?


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Thank you all for your help! I was able to get some updated photos. I do apologize if they are not very helpful. It is difficult to get the wing spread with one hand.

The mother:


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

The second clutch:Second hatch:


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Third clutch:

First egg, seems to be female?


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Second egg from third clutch, seems to be male? Very large body.

















Sorry for so many photos! I was trying to be thorough!


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Print Tippler said:


> The bird in the nest on the right. .. appears to me be brown spread dilute aka khaki. And looks like grizzle also.


As the bird has aged, I've started seeing some white flecking appearing. Is it possible that it could be an ash yellow dilute (looks very similar in color to the hen but just more coloring overall). I've started thinking the hen is an ash red diluted to yellow. If this is the case, wouldn't all dilute offspring be male and all non-dilute (such as the two black mottled from the first clutch) would be female? 

Or am I entirely off base with my thinking?


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

You need to have a dilute cock father with a non dilute hen mother to do the sex linkage in the babies......the reverse doesn't work. E.g. an ash yellow (ash red dilute) cock paired with an ash red hen will give you babies where all yellows are hens and reds are cocks. The reverse mating.....an ash red cock with an ash yellow hen is not sex-linked.


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

thats a ash red


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Loftkeeper, the bird in post #16. Would he be an ash red T-pattern? 

Woodnative, the original pair I started with is a black mottle and a yellow mottle. (Although I am wondering if it is an ash yellow due to all the different variations of ash red I am getting.)


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

The last bird you posted is definitely a cock.....ash red grizzle split for blue. I see a couple blue streaks in amongst the ash feathers which means the bird has ash red on one sex chromosome and blue on the other sex chromosome. Since it has two sex chromosomes it is a cock and ash red is dominant but the blue "slips" through here and there on the flight feathers and tail especially . Your yellow could be recessive yellow but hiding ash yellow (ash red + dilute).


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