# Identify if its a HOMER



## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Hi guys, I have bought a pigeon today. I guess its a homer. But I am not sure because I am not familiar with homers. I keep highflyers.
Actually a boy (neighbour) brought this bird from somewhere, and kept it alone in a cage. He was ill treating it (cutting feathers, not giving food well). So, I decided to buy it from him. And thats the story... I am posting few pics.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Please tell me, if its a homer or anything else.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looks like a homer. Could be a homer mix even.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Yeah, it could be a homer. By the way, thank you for helping and rescuing this lone bird from the boy. He will be happy to be with your other birds.*


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

Its a madrasi pigeon.
For anyone out of india, it may seem like a homer but its actually a south india tippler commonly known as madrasi pigeon all over india. They fly for hours at a medium height. They are almost like tipplers in behaviour and flying style. they also have good homing instinct. But They are not used for racing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The head profile is that of a homer. What do the madrasi pigeons look like?


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## bassrunpigeon (May 1, 2016)

It's a homer. Nice looking bird!


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks Naresh

You learn something new every day with these birds. The first link to Facebook could almost be this pigeon.

https://www.facebook.com/MadrasiPigeons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLEQNJscG8I


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I agree with Naresh j. Madrasi pigeon is quite common in India and I have never heard of such a bird from a non-Indian. I heard that they fly quite high (not as much as highflyers) and is known for their stamina (they fly for hours). But never had the luck to see it by my own eyes. They seemed to me like homers too, specially the eye, head and beak.
I am trying but not finding a person who keeps and flies madrasi pigeon. Hope, will find someone. Maybe right here.

The main problem here is, you will most probably get a crossed line bird in most of the cases.

And there is also a pigeon called madrasi homer. They seems like pure homer with bulkier body and heavy weight and the homer-like beak. But they are not used in races. People said that they lack the speed of racers. I have a pair of that kind since few months. And two babies of 11 and 13 days from them. When I will fly them I will try to study their characteristics and post the updates here. I will post a pic of the bird here.
But I am not able to differentiate between them except the bigger size and heavier fact!

I am trying to study the madrasi pigeon, and whenever I get a chance to know something new, I will let you know the facts. Hope someday we all will know a strain named Madrasi Pigeon and their abilities, disabilities, characteristics and so many things.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

*Madrasi Homer male*

Thats the male I have.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Gorgeous bird.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Thats the female. Can you people tell if its a homer or not?
The breeder claimed that its a Madrasi Homer. But I suspect it, specially looking at its beak. The beak is not like a homer's. Though she is quite bulky.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

The babies.
Actually, they abandoned the eggs. They made no nest, didn't enter the nest box, and oneday at noon when I was sitting there, she laid the egg on the floor! And didn't return to it. Probably because of the fact that I shifted them to a big cage from a smaller one before few days. Luckily A pair of tumbler was sitting on eggs by three days. And I replaced them. I have never made use of fosters before, luckily both the pairs laid egg within few days of each other, and I have the babies now!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Snehasis Panja said:


> Thats the female. Can you people tell if its a homer or not?
> The breeder claimed that its a Madrasi Homer. But I suspect it, specially looking at its beak. The beak is not like a homer's. Though she is quite bulky.



Looks like a homer.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Can the beak of a homer be like this? I mean with small cere like highflyers?


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

They are madrasi pigeons.... they are not homers. They just look excatly like them. But they are tipplers.
Madrasi pigeons come in vareity of colours but homers are usually in blue bar. Madrasi homers fly lower than madrasi hfs. Madrasi homers are bigger than madrasi hfs. But both fly like tipplers for hours above the loft


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Okay... Can you tell me from how far they can home?
However, do you have any madrasi pigeon Naresh j?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi
Thanks for the invite.
Pls post a pic of the bird in the side pose showing its complete body from head to tail with bird in alert position.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

You are most welcome...
I posted the pics of the pigeons(3 in total) already. Are they not visible here? If so, tell me I shall post again.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

They're visible but are not in posture to determine the breed for sure. To determine a breed you need to take into account all the physical characteristics not just eyes, cere etc.
A complete body shot from side in alert position showing the complete body would be needed.
Thanks


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

How many pics you can see here? I posted total 5 pics of three birds. 2 or 3 of them are taken from side covering all their body from tail to beak. I will post few more by tomorrow.
Is there any division of madrasi pigeon such as madrasi homer, madrasi highflyer? Or the strain is just madrasi pigeon that look like a homer(nearly) and fly like tipplers?
Do you have any experience of how their homing ability is?
Can the adults be settled in a new loft?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I can only see 3 pics one of squabs,one in nest, one pigeon with back which is a gola breed. I do PT by my BB cellphone maybe that's the reason.
A img like this will help...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Madrasi HFs have homing ability. With pure madrasi pigeons even if they don't find their way back home they won't settle to a new loft(easily). They are very very strong on their wings and won't even look down on the new loft. They can fly from dawn to dusk. Even their younsters are hard to trap train. Your bound to lose 10% younsters during trap training. If you don't lose you don't have pure madrasi HF pigeons.
I won't recommend letting a madrasi out. Breed them and test their youngsters.
Now especially in Delhi where people are crazy for Madrasi HFs, many sub breeds have been developed in attempt to make them manageable but mix breeding just spoils the purity. I don't like it.

Madrasi homers are more of a show breed. Madrasi homers route quickly and can fly upto 2-3 hours. They usually come in pure whites(doves). They're very good looking. When you let them out of loft they will range quickly. They fly very fast. They cannot be settled to a new loft. When I let my first madrasi out it never came back.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Ok. I am posting two pics again. The kalduma female is claimed to has a record of flying 10+ hours. I am eager to taste its babies.
The one with black dots on neck is a rescued pigeon, whom I talked about at the beginning of this thread.
I don't have another pic of The male sitting on nest, so I shall post it tomorrow.

Where did you find gola pigeon by the way? I don't have any! The squab?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

So, there are madrasi homers and madrasi highflyers. I just wanted to know the point. Can you tell me how to differ one from another? Weight or appearance or flying style or else?
Does the cere prove anything? The male has a expanded cere while the female has a small cere like other highflyers I have.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

The first pic is of a HF ofcourse.
The second pic looks like of a gola breed. They can also home back 10-50kms. They are used for flying around the loft. They route too.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

A newbie won't be able to differentiate b/w madrasi HFs and homers. Madrasi HF have longer wings. Their flying style is different which I've stated above.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I never saw a gola of white colour earlier!
Is this produced by cross breeding?

Since both madrasi highflyer and homer route, how to distinguish their flying style?
Do hf flies more higher than homer? Or slow?

Do the madrasi homers look bulkier and bigger than hfs?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I managed to get this pics today. Thats the male.
*In the pic of the single male, he seems a bit bulkier than he really is. Thats because he was pretending to be larger to threat me to go out of their new born babies...
Though he is bulkier than the hen.
So, his breed please?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Beautiful birds.
Yes, these are madrasi HFs.
They don't route oftenly when flying like homers. They fly overhead going high and down the skies whereas m homers fly low and route and don't fly all day unlike M HF, just for 1-2 hours.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

In north there are many gola breeds. When we say gola that doesn't necessarily mean blue bar birds.

Madrasi HFs are bulkier and heavy that indian common HFs. Madrasi Homers are bit bulkier than M HFs but don't have elongated bodies like HFs. People rather call M homers pigeons with round bodies


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Ooh! Thanks.
I was worring that I got one homer and one highflyer and the babies would be crossed (that I don't like). But luckily, that's not happened.
Now I have three babies of 16(two) and 25 days...
I heard that madrasi pigeons can fly in extreme heat as well as in rain.
Can they really fly in rain?
The monsoon is just arriving here...


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Some people here call these pigeons (talking about the gola) madrasi pigeon! I was also thinking that! Can you please tell me how did you identify his breed? I mean by what characteristics?
Can I use it for toss-flying? I mean can I fly it from 5-6 kms to return to home?
I don't have any hen of his breed, so I am also wondering what kind of bird to give him as mate?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes madrasi pigeons can fly in soaring heat. And they don't stumble if they drink water after flying. But they can't fly in heavy rain. Obviously the wing feathers get drenched.

Does the bird in question fly around your loft? Is he settled at your loft? What's his flying style?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I released it just one day with the other birds, opening the gate of the loft. But by a sound all the birds got scared and flew. It flew with them, (the bird flies with speed unlike any hf), when all my birds came down to my roof, it didn't. It flied sometime going far(though visible) from one direction to another with quite speed and then landed on a roof-top few building's next to my house. I flew my birds once again so that it can come with them but, though it flew did never kit with others and went back to the same spot.
It spent the night there. The next morning I didn't find it anywhere. But after 2 or three hours when I went back discovered it flying above the roof and this time quite high (medium height for hfs) so, I flew my birds again but it didn't come with the flock. But came down to a roof nearer to my roof, I called it for a long time when feeding other birds, but in vain. Few hours later I discovered it on a nearer roof but in opposite direction. In the afternoon, when I went to the roof I didn't find it anywhere. After 2 hours I discovered it on my roof. LOL...
I let it go out of the loft again another day, but it didn't fly. I think its not confident enough to fly here.
When it fly in the loft its speed is noticeably fast than other hfs.
Sorry, it became a story now and will take a bit more time from you...


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

One more thing,
Please Never think that I am questioning your opinion or others' here.
Actually, none here keep any kind of pigeons in 8-10 sq. km areas of my habitat. Thats why I have taken the madrasi hfs from 60 km away. So, I don't have any experience of watching them in a friend/neighbour's house. All the source I have is internet, specially PT. So I am trying to rise my skill and experience with every question...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You've just described typical fancy gola pigeon behaviour. That means the bird you have is a fancy gola not a madrasi homer. If you had madrasi homer it wouldn't have come back.
Fancy Gola breeds are raised for playing bird wars, gola races and they are kept for meat.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

How far can this breed return from?
What is the play of bird war?

Yes, the bird is very cheap comparing the price of madrasi pigeon.

I am posting a pic. Can you please tell me the breed of the two pigeons? The breeder claimed that they are racers. I am wondering how can a racer be so long and slim!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Wow! beautiful birds! I'm a HF keeper so these birds excite me most.
These are common(desi) Indian H Flyers. They are set into competitions where they fly alone. They are of different bloodlines though.

O..! Bird wars!!! They are played commonly in Delhi and are very exciting to watch. The participant fanciers let out their flocks and take a flag and wave it. They don't let the flocks come down or land. They give out special calls which their birds are trained to, and the birds obey them and fly in tight knit units. Sooner or later the flocks collide (head on) into each other, and one or more pigeons may accidently switch flocks. When a fancier senses that pigeons from other flock have joined his flock he immediately signs his birds to land when the flock passes over the loft. The flocks are so tight knit that the outsider pigeons land with the home flock and the fancier catches them. Then the fancier may keep the pigeons or sell them back to the real owner or sell the birds in the market.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Oh!
I would like to watch the game but wouldn't participate though... I hate loosing bird.
I am offered one of the birds among them. Which one will be better in your opinion?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

If I had to choose a cock then first from left and if a hen then 3rd or 4th from left.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I want hen. So its the 4th one I shall take.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

She's gorgeous! Which cock are you gonna pair her with? Any pic??


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Its not decided yet. I am planning to visit the breeder and see the bird flying... Then I shall have to find a suitable male for her.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Jass, here something to discuss with you...
If you read my earlier threads you might find that I have the problem of not flying my birds (for even more than 15 mins). Many people here advised me to breed the adults and fly the youngs. At a time I was not getting baby from them, so, I brought baby pigeons (1month old). I settled them, flied them when they are 2 months old. But none of them flew more than 15 mins ever. Sometimes I scared them to fly more, but they couldn't. I am flying a young till now (6 months old) and it gave me the highest time of 30 mins. He flew quite high and with ease, but the time is never good. The breeder I took them from, claimed that it is son of his best birds, they fly for hours.
Can you guess the problem? His bloodline?
I am attaching pics of him...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Nice bird !!!
Can you post a closer clear pic of his eye?
I see the bird is about 4 months age and is moulting. For now I don't blame the bird.
How do you keep and feed your pigeons? And what do you feed?

And yes bloodlines play a vital role. Newbies are the ones duped. When you go to buy a pigeon,don't just buy it for the owner's promise of the bird being a good flyer. Sit there and tell the fancier to fly the bird in front of your eyes. Buy best for your foundation pairs and gather atleast 4-8 different bloods of high flying breed to start with. Means buy 4 totally unrelated cocks and hens.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Yes, I will post the pic tomorrow morning.
He is 6 months cause I brought him on 21st January. Yes, he is moulting now.

I feed two times, once at around 10-11am and once afternoon. I give wheat, 'chana','dal'(low quantity) and thats all. Actually I can't afford high priced seed.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Will these close up pics help you?
I have this male with the same problem of not flying long. I brought it adult though.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Sorry the img of the eye doesn't help... Img like this would help









But don't think the red grizzle is a bad flyer.
What are you feeding and how,how many times, at what time?
At what time do you fly your birds? Does this bird land on other rooftops too?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I tried flying them at all times on different days. Morning, afternoon, noon...
No, the red one don't land anywhere else. The white one lands on coconut tree if forced to fly after his own timing. What about him?
I gave the food information in previous post. Please have a look.
I will post good close up pics tomorrow morn.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Oh sorry! I missed that post at all. Oooops!

Ok... I don't know how much channa daal in the mix you're giving. Too much daal can stress birds' liver. If you don't buy packed feed then do a little change.
Mix Jowar and gayhun in equal proportions and add 10% moong daal to it. I think this is doable for you. Once a week add two pinches of kala namak to a litre of their drinking water. Do you have red hard wheat available there? Its cheaper than white and sharbati wheat... Do you give grit?

You have to separate your flyers from breeding pairs. Build a separate enclosure for them with proper ventilation and shade. Feed your flyers only once a day in the evening. Put the feeder in there enclosure and let them eat as much they want in 15-20mins. Then remove the feeder. Make water available during daytime only, remove waterer during the night.
Wake up early next morning and give your pigeons 15 ml water by mouth and let them sit for an hour in the loft. Then when the sun has just risen fly your pigeons in a kit of not more than 3-5 pigeons. Keep your other pigeons locked up in the coop while they fly. Doesn't matter if your pigeons don't fly well for first few days. Just keep doing this for fifteen days. If they have good blood they will open up. During this training, never fly your pigeons for the rest of the day after morning session. Rather keep them cooped up just letting them out for an hour or two.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Sorry, it was my exam today and I could not take the pics and reply.
I give chana and daal in low quantity and I give mustaard seed too. Is it good or bad for theeir health?
I am working on making a devided loft. Hope, this week that will be finished.
The red wheat isn't available here. I will definitely bring joyar and give them. Yes, there's grit all the time. What ingredients do you use to make the grit? Should I always keep water in the breeding loft?

Do you keep any racer/homer also? I am planning to buy a pair of racer. Can you help me selecting the birds?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Water and feed should be made available in the breeding loft all throughout the daytime.

Grit can be homemade by crushing red bricks,oyster shells,cuttle fish bones,marble chips,wooden charcoal,granite,chicken egg shells,pebbles to sizable pieces. You can add 2% iodine salt, sterile clay and black soil to it.

Not now,but I had homers before! You will only find pure homers in the extreme south of our country. Google the pigeon clubs there!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes, mustard seeds are anti bacterial and are good for their health. But they shouldn't be more 10-12% of the feed mix cuz they're oil bearing seeds.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I used most of the things in their grit except marbel chips, granite and charcoal. Will mix these next time.
I give them mustard seed everyday but its 5-7 %, I think.

I am not getting praziquantel here and I have to deworm the birds. When searching for prazi I got a med named Bandystar plus(tablet). It(1 tab) contains Praziquantel IP (50mg), Pyrantel Embonate IP(144mg) and Febantel IP(150mg). Can I use it?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

By the way, is there anything that will help me identifying homer/racer? I mean if two birds are given in my hand, will I be able to identify by noticing eye or beak or cere or wing or weight or size or anything else?
If I fly any homer/racer from its own loft, how will it fly? Will ithe bird directly start routing or do anything else?
The breeder I am going to take them said that they are of belgium bloodline and white. Once I get the pics I will post...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Snehasis Panja said:


> I used most of the things in their grit except marbel chips, granite and charcoal. Will mix these next time.
> I give them mustard seed everyday but its 5-7 %, I think.
> 
> I am not getting praziquantel here and I have to deworm the birds. When searching for prazi I got a med named Bandystar plus(tablet). It(1 tab) contains Praziquantel IP (50mg), Pyrantel Embonate IP(144mg) and Febantel IP(150mg). Can I use it?


Not Bandystar plus cuz it has febantel which is toxic for pigeons/doves,ask for Bandystar alone. Praziquantel dosage is only 6mg per bird


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Snehasis Panja said:


> By the way, is there anything that will help me identifying homer/racer? I mean if two birds are given in my hand, will I be able to identify by noticing eye or beak or cere or wing or weight or size or anything else?
> If I fly any homer/racer from its own loft, how will it fly? Will ithe bird directly start routing or do anything else?
> The breeder I am going to take them said that they are of belgium bloodline and white. Once I get the pics I will post...


A pure homer would have bigger wattle,cere and a broad chest. Its double the size of a common indian highflyer. If you pick a homer you won't be able to contain it in your hand.
To check, you can take a homer away from loft and release it. Good quality homers first circle the area where they are released and then make it to their loft. When let out of the loft together they fly as unit around and then route. And they always fly low and don't glide like indian HFs rather fly fast.


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