# What kind of red is this?



## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

Here's Auburn. He has reddish markings but his head, flights, and tail are more bluish, and his tail has a band.
What is his color/pattern called, and what causes it? He's definitely the most interesting color bird I have.

Pics of Big Red and Little Red, both ash reds (but probably unrelated to Auburn or each other), also attached for comparison.

Big Red _may_ carry blue; he has a few blue flecks on his rump. 

Little Red definitely carries blue; his mother was ash red and his father is a blue T-check. He has blue flecks in his flights & tail (though pic doesn't show it.) Little Red's full sib Rusty has similar markings, but this year's new tail feathers have a lot more blue, in bigger splotches, not just flecks. 

Also, what exactly is "Indigo" and how does it figure into the reds? 
I've read that indigo can cause red appearance (and the blue flecks), but what is going on when they are ash red and indigo at the same time?  

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I don't have Auburn's pedigree (he was not bred locally; his band says "1958 IF 04 RALPH FEED" which seems to be somewhere in NJ... if anyone knows who bred him, please tell me so I can beg for a pedigree ).


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

He could be a blue or brown indigo, but I'm thinking he may be opal. I see his tail bar is washed out like indigos and opals.


Also, Little Red's parents are a sex-linked mating. All reds from them will be males and all blues will be hens. And Big Red does carry blue.

Ash-red indigos look like ash-reds but their 'ash' is more blue.


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> He could be a blue or brown indigo, but I'm thinking he may be opal. I see his tail bar is washed out like indigos and opals.
> 
> Also, Little Red's parents are a sex-linked mating. All reds from them will be males and all blues will be hens. And Big Red does carry blue.
> 
> Ash-red indigos look like ash-reds but their 'ash' is more blue.


Another pic of Auburn, though I'm almost out of space... 
What makes opal? Is it pattern, color, or both? 

Little Red has 3 blue-check sisters (one is his nest-mate Nancy, the others are Amy & Dolly, yearlings), but none of them have washed-out tail bars, so i guess no indigo from their father -- their ash-red mother did not have any flecks at all... Little Red and his brother Rusty (yearling) are almost identical. 

Are the blue flecks caused by Indigo, or by carrying blue, or by either/both?
I've been reading the color threads, and the outside links that were posted, but it's still not clear.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Mmkay. Auburn is most definitely blue or brown (but I'm pretty sure it is blue) based. The reason being that ash-red based birds do not have tail bars.

The bird has the smokey gene (often called 'slate'), and probably bronze, making the red in the bars/checks look so strange.

Blue/black flecks in ash-red birds means they are carrying blue. Only males can carry a second color, so birds with those flecks would be males.

Opal is a color modifier. It is its own gene. Well, they are their own genes. There is dominant opal, and recessive opal. Not sure which one yours would be since I haven't looked into the two types in a long time. I'm thinking yours would be dominant though.

Does Auburn have any children?


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Auburn is most definitely blue or brown (but I'm pretty sure it is blue) based.
> The bird has the smokey gene (often called 'slate'), and probably bronze, making the red in the bars/checks look so strange.
> 
> Opal is a color modifier. It is its own gene. Well, they are their own genes. There is dominant opal, and recessive opal. Not sure which one yours would be since I haven't looked into the two types in a long time. I'm thinking yours would be dominant though.
> Does Auburn have any children?


Is the Smokey gene the one that's related to the presence or absence of the albescent strip on the outside feathers of the tail?
Is Bronze also a color modifier, or a color/pattern combination determined by more than one gene? 

Auburn probably does have children; he used to live in Lou Arcuri's breeding coop. He's the only bird Lou had (since I've been there) with this color and pattern.
Unfortunately, I haven't found (or been given) any of Lou's breeding records.
I just got Auburn last month, when Lou's birds were sold (he was a gift to me from Lou's family).


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Smokey takes away the albescent strip and gives the bird a lighter skin/beak color.

I suppose bronze would be considered a modifier since there are only 3 colors and 6 patterns (barless, bar, light check, check, heavy check, t-pattern). I believe there are several different types of bronze. Some appearances require more than one bronze gene, but regardless, bronze is its own thing.



Looking at the pictures again, if he does have smokey, then he also has another darkening gene to keep his beak from being light colored. I'm assuming sooty. Or maybe the only one he has is sooty afterall....hmmm.... One copy of the sooty gene can smudge up the pattern like slate does.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Well this is very supprising as in the last issue of the PUREBRED PIGEON magazine there was an artical on a genetic study done on the "OPAL Color Variant of the Domestic Pigeon". In this study a ash red mimic was used and it was given the name cherry and the symbolized (ch). I believe that the bird here falls in line with this study and is in fact an opal. Becky if you send me a PM with your address I will send you a copy of this study,I am sure you will find it very intresting. *GEORGE


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