# The story of Pippa!



## Tashy/Rob

We live in a detached house & had noticed out of our landing window a pigeon sleeping on the roof next door to us for about 6 months from June 2011. We noticed she came down to feed during the day as we feed roughly 20+ feral's in our garden. We also noticed she had a dodgy wing (it hangs down on one side) and she could only fly a short distance e.g from garden to shed then onto roof. We found she was hiding in a neighbours garden as it got colder and the neighbour came round to ask if it was one of ours. We took her in the beginning of december kept her warm, fed her and treated her for fleas etc as she had bald patches under wings with sores that were bleeding. We tried not to handle her and released her 24th dec as she was desperate to be reunited with her friends. We saw her a couple a times and she seemed fine then we noticed her on our kitchen roof she looked scruffy and sad, so we took her again. We think she must have been attacked because she is now blind in one eye and their is a mark on the pupil. We have a vets that we go to for our dogs but can't find anywhere that seems to care about feral pigeons they suggest we put her to sleep but apart from the eye she is fine and quite a character.
Any help and advice would be appreciated as it looks like we now have a new member to our family!


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## Jaye

Hi. Thanks for helping her out all this time. So...does she still exhibit fluffiness ? 

To cover the bases, as a precaution I would do a few things.

1) Check for canker: open her beak and look for any white or yellowish growths in the mouth or down the throat. Also see if the tongue and base of mouth is pink or grey/bluish. 

If there are growths, phlegm...she has canker and needs to be started on Metronidazole, Spartrix, or Ronidazole ASAP. 

2) Give her a dusting with flea powder (make sure you cover eyes and cere). This will kill any Pigeon lice (fear not, they do not transmit to humans or other animals).

3) Start her on a wide-net antibiotic such as Amoxycillin or Trimeth-Sulpha. A 7-10 day treatment just to cover any infections she may have.

4) Make sure she eats and drinks. Feel her breast/chest area. Is the keelbone (breastbone) very prominent ? or does tehre seem to be a good amount of flesh on her breast ?

5) Keep an eye on the poops. If there is yellow in there, or if it looks foamy, or looks like chocolate pudding, or looks sort of a very bright green, or if it appears watery with snake-like darks and no white at all....she has something going on and needs add'l meds.

6) Post a pic of the eye, please. Could be an injury...could also be an infection which perhaps meds can clear up or alleviate. Make absolutely sure that she is secure inside and cannot access the outside at all...with a compromised eye she wouldn't last long at all in the Feral world.

Thanks for posting !


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## amyable

Hi,

Sorry only just spotted your story. Glad Jaye has furnished you with some good advice on what to look for.

Hope you pop back on as we'd love to know how Pippa is getting on and hopefully help to get it back up to full health.

Good luck

Janet


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi, firstly thanks for your replies.

In answer to some of the questions, no, she doesn't exhibit fluffiness until she attacks my partner Robs hands, she pecks at him and slaps with her wings, then coos, struts around and puffs out her chest. Almost as if to say "yeah come on boy and get some more"

As for checking for canker, we did this and her mouth and throat didn't appear to have anything growing in there, and her tongue appeared pinkish. Our main concern is that most nights she has small sneezing fits, then shakes her head, which can spatter a yellowy phlegm (mucus?) around. Concerning fleas etc we have applied Ivamite as described and this appears to have cleared them up, we'll give her a dusting of flea powder as a precaution though.

Poop wise, 80% of the time they're a brown colour with a white cap, and appear moist, the remaining 20% they have been slightly green and white, and once or twice they have appear as black snakes, but then they return to brown/green/white, sometime quite sloppy and wet.

Now onto her eye, below is a photo (edited for clarity) which shows a greyish membrane across the pupil, when she looks straight at you, you can see the left eye has, for want of a better word, been popped, and she's totally blind on that side bless her, but her right side is fine, or appears to be, as she can spot a piece of bread dropped at 10 yards! The bald patches under her wings have cleared beautifully, nice pink skin showing through the new feather growths, and her flight is now totally controlled.

She eats and drinks well, I give her crushed shortbread, which she adores, pigeon winter mix, and to fatten her up she also has crushed 'fat balls', full of proteins and fats. Her keelbone isn't really prominent, but she does appear a tad underweight, which is unususal due to her eating quite a lot, an indication of the need for worming perhaps?

Also she needs her nails cutting but not sure where to take her, would a normal vet do this?

In general, she appears fine, except for the sneezing (she's just flown downstairs now, probably to annoy the dogs, which we're sure she enjoys), as for releasing her, that's NOT an option, she's here with us for the rest of her natural life, we've fallen for her, it's a love/hate relationship between her and Rob though, he loves her, she clearly hate him lol!!!

So, any more help and advice, and how to secure any necessary meds would be greatly appreciated, our vets would simply offer euthanasia, again, NOT an option in our eyes, she'll get every chance we can give her!

Thanks

Tashy & (bullied by Pip) Rob

Her poorly eye:









One of her wet greenish poops (no odour):









Warming her tush:









Cutie or what? (notice her left eye in the mirror is closed)


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## Jaye

Hi. Great report. She appears to be a juvenile. Everything sounds pretty good except the sneezing/phlegm issue.

That can be canker in the sinuses, or it can also be a respiratory infection. The best thing here is an Avian vet visit including physical exam and a bloodtest. If you cannot do that...then we get into best-guesses.

If I were confronted with those symptoms...I would cover both conceivable bases by starting her on Metronidazole or Spartrix or Ronidazole, AND Doxycycline (aka Vibramycin). These will be pills. 
They can be purchased online I believe in UK; you can also check and see if any local pet supply carries either. I would be inclined to get hold of those meds in the next few days, even if this requires an expedited shipping deal.

If you cannot get Doxycycline... Amoxycillin, Baytril (aka Cipro, Enroflaxin), or Trimeth Sulfa would be a decent enough second choice. Or a human-grade antibiotic, if you have any kicking around, such as Penicillin, ceclor, Cephalexin, Augmentin. 

There is no substitute for Metronidazole, Ronidazole, or Spartrix, however. Gotta be one of those three.

Doesn't sound as if her symptoms and condition is critical by any means, but there's definitely something going on there and meds or a vet visit should be done within the next 3 days.

Thanks for the update.


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi Jaye,

Thanks for your prompt response, l'll do some Internet research on the meds. I have some human grade amoxicillin 500mg tabs in a drawer somewhere, are these usable as a solution with boiled then cooled water?

Am eager to get her started off ASAP you see!

There's a dedicated avian vet some 50 miles away, we're prepared, through dedication to any animal, to go to these lengths!!

Thanks Jaye,

Tashy.


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## Jay3

With the phlem, and what looks like some feather loss around the beak, I would treat for canker. Metronidazole is good, and you may be able to get that in a tropical fish store. It's Fish Zole. Just be sure that it is only Metronidazole. Or you can order online.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/534.html


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## Jaye

Jay, just a note... they are in UK. But I agree, the presence of some form of canker is probable, still.

Yes, Tashy....human Amoxycillin is fine. You wanna make a dilution 125 mg/ml and dose *.4cc* twice daily for 7-10 days. You need a 1cc syringe, plastic, and just lay the dosage onto the tongue, don't 'squirt' it in or he/she may aspirate if it goes down the windpipe (which is located at the base of the tongue in the throat).

This doesn't preclude the Metronidazole/Spartrix/Ronidazole. You should still get some of that asap, also. Canker need not appear in the throat for it to be present. It can be in the sinuses or crop or even in the gut...all of which would be invisible as far as growths are concerned.

IF you see any signs of decline...increasingly phlegmatic, loss of appetite, fluffing up and lethargic...get thee to the Avian vet post haste.

BTW - for a nail trim, just use a nailclipper and go very, very conservatively because you don't wanna cut the quick (vein) which runs inside the nail. Just little bit off of each, then wait a day and take a little more. This allows the quick to recede in between.


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## MaryOfExeter

The one eye closed and other respiratory symptoms make me think maybe it has a one eye cold as well as the canker.


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## Tashy/Rob

Jaye!

You're ace!! 

It's Rob now, can I not grind a 500mg capsule contents into say, 6 pints of water and let Pip drink as much as she wishes?

And I'm off to our local tropical fish stockist tomorrow, Pip shall, even though she sees me as a punchbag......survive!

Cheers all,

Rob


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## amyable

Hi there,

Sorry can't stop on now just got in and popped on to see if you'd updated but am desperate to get to bed! Just wanted to say, let us know how you get on as far as getting the meds. May be able to help to get you going with some until you get some sorted.
Will catch up with the post tomorrow. 

Janet


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## Jay3

Sorry, I hadn't noticed that you were in the UK. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## amyable

Hi,

Just had the chance to read through your thread and with the advice you've got on meds from Jay hopefully this will help cover the problems Pippa has at present.
If you've not had any luck with sourcing those meds online, if you like, send me a Private Message with your address and I will send some Flagyl/ Metronidazole to you.

Great to know Pip has landed in such caring hands. 

Janet


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## Jaye

Tashy/Rob said:


> .... can I not grind a 500mg capsule contents into say, 6 pints of water and let Pip drink as much as she wishes?


*Nope*....there is no way to determine how much med would actually make it into the Pigeon...and the solution is way, way too diluted to be effective against an infection which has established itself.

Imagine, if you will, a human being with an infection who manages to intake only 15% of the required dosage per day...and this done over a period of 12 waking hours. That would actually do more harm then good, really....if you catch my drift (the bacteria could likely begin to develop a resistance to the med).

Gotta be the proper concentrated dosage, 2x day, given 8 hrs-12 hrs. apart. 

Really easy to create this dosage ~ 125mg/ml. That is 1/4 of the pill, chopped up (I actually crush it with the side of a big carving knife) and mixed vigorously with 1ml hot or slightly boiled tap water. Or take the whole pill and crush it into 4ml. 

You will have to re-shake the solution each time you give it so it becomes cloudy white.

Then just find a plastic 1cc syringe and you are set. Note: I actually erred on the dosage I had written above (now edited ~ I was looking at a prescription for one of my Parrots, not my Pigeons). It should be .4cc per dosage for a Pigeon.

The Metronidazole, if that is what you find at the fish store, might actually be given as a piece of tablet, depending upon the mg of each tablet. So check back here for that dosage once you get it.

They can be given at the same time (no need to space out the separate meds).


Tashy/Rob said:


> Pip shall, even though she sees me as a punchbag......survive!


There are few things in life as much fun as beak-wrestling an uppity Pigeon.....
You have done this, yes ? Next time she takes a stab at you, make a playful grab with your thumb and forefinger for either her beak, and shake it very gently for a second or two.

_Then_.... they say in the ol' 'hood... *it's ON*.....


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## Jaye

MaryOfExeter said:


> The one eye closed and other respiratory symptoms make me think maybe it has a one eye cold as well as the canker.


It would be great if in fact that eye could be saved, but R & T seemed to indicate it had been punctured and collapsed.....maybe some more info on that, another pic or something (?)


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## Tashy/Rob

Jaye said:


> There are few things in life as much fun as beak-wrestling an uppity Pigeon.....
> You have done this, yes ? Next time she takes a stab at you, make a playful grab with your thumb and forefinger for either her beak, and shake it very gently for a second or two.
> 
> _Then_.... they say in the ol' 'hood... *it's ON*.....



Yeah thanks I (Rob) tried that before, and she went berserk, even when we checked her for canker and Tashy held Pip in some old ski gloves and then put her down, she turned on her, then me of course, and took us both on in her 'teen tantrum'.

I've just placed an order for a med called Easicanker (www.hyperdrug.co.uk), you simply mix a sachet each day in 2 litres of boiled/cooled water and she can drink as little or as much as she likes!

Precise instructions are given as to signs over overdose etc, so it should be ok!

Thanks for all your help, and please feel free to offer any more help and advice as we're new 'rehabbers'

Oh and any advice as to make Pippa hand tame (self defence lessons?) would be *really* appreciated, as I so want to give her love-hugs and stroke her!

Thanks again,

Rob

I'll keep you all imformed, and thanks to all who responded, especially Amyable for her kind offer to send me some meds!!!

Quick edit: is it advisable to give Pippa pigeon grit to aid in her digestion?


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## jondove

Tashy/Rob said:


> I've just placed an order for a med called Easicanker (www.hyperdrug.co.uk), you simply mix a sachet each day in 2 litres of boiled/cooled water and she can drink as little or as much as she likes!
> Precise instructions are given as to signs over overdose etc, so it should be ok!


IMO these meds that are mixed in the drinking water are a compromise solution for people who have a large number of birds with similar health problems and it's difficult to treat each bird individually, or for treating feral birds that you cannot catch...

For treating one individual pigeon, you should administer the exact dose yourself, otherwise you have no control over how much or how little antibiotic the pigeon will get. I looked on that site and I don't think that's ok at all: in case of overdose it says the pigeon can show signs of paralysis, now you wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Even if it's temporary, but who knows?

It doesn't say there anything about underdose, which is very dangerous too, because bacteria will get used and become resistant to the antibiotic. This could happen if she doesn't like the taste of the water mixed with antibiotic and drinks less than normal, so this could also lead to dehydration.

And finally, I hate when someone sells a product with a very commercial name (Easy canker !) but their site says nothing about the active substance. It's probably one of the well known antibiotics, but like I said I wouldn't buy anything until I know exactly what's in there....



> Oh and any advice as to make Pippa hand tame (self defence lessons?) would be *really* appreciated, as I so want to give her love-hugs and stroke her!


In my short experience with pigeons I found out it's better to let them come to you when they feel like it, rather than chase them around trying to pet them, it only scares them more... Maybe try to give her some food out of your hand, if there is something that she likes the most?

Actually I don't have much experience with that, I hand raised mine from a very young age so it was easier to get them used to me this way. Anyway she will need to get slowly used to you and get to trust you, and that takes a lot of time and patience.

Also, the problem with the hand is that they see it as a predator, or an enemy anyway. Sometimes a pigeon that otherwise trusts you will run away from your hand, only to fly on your shoulder (or on your head), which they see as a safe perching place.



> Is it advisable to give Pippa pigeon grit to aid in her digestion?


Yes, especially if she eats hard seeds! 

Pigeons don't have teeth, so the stones, sand, ground oyster shells and red stone in the grit help them crush the food. They are also a source of calcium and other minerals. So yes, pigeons should have access to grit at all times, they will eat as much as they need.

There's one exception though: there are some drugs that are not supposed to be taken with grit, as calcium can interfere with the absorption of the medicine. But that is only for a limited time, during the treatment.


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## Tashy/Rob

jondove said:


> IMO these meds that are mixed in the drinking water are a compromise solution for people who have a large number of birds with similar health problems and it's difficult to treat each bird individually, or for treating feral birds that you cannot catch...
> 
> For treating one individual pigeon, you should administer the exact dose yourself, otherwise you have no control over how much or how little antibiotic the pigeon will get. I looked on that site and I don't think that's ok at all: in case of overdose it says the pigeon can show signs of paralysis, now you wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Even if it's temporary, but who knows?
> 
> It doesn't say there anything about underdose, which is very dangerous too, because bacteria will get used and become resistant to the antibiotic. This could happen if she doesn't like the taste of the water mixed with antibiotic and drinks less than normal, so this could also lead to dehydration.
> 
> And finally, I hate when someone sells a product with a very commercial name (Easy canker !) but their site says nothing about the active substance. It's probably one of the well known antibiotics, but like I said I wouldn't buy anything until I know exactly what's in there....
> 
> 
> 
> In my short experience with pigeons I found out it's better to let them come to you when they feel like it, rather than chase them around trying to pet them, it only scares them more... Maybe try to give her some food out of your hand, if there is something that she likes the most?
> 
> Actually I don't have much experience with that, I hand raised mine from a very young age so it was easier to get them used to me this way. Anyway she will need to get slowly used to you and get to trust you, and that takes a lot of time and patience.
> 
> Also, the problem with the hand is that they see it as a predator, or an enemy anyway. Sometimes a pigeon that otherwise trusts you will run away from your hand, only to fly on your shoulder (or on your head), which they see as a safe perching place.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, especially if she eats hard seeds!
> 
> Pigeons don't have teeth, so the stones, sand, ground oyster shells and red stone in the grit help them crush the food. They are also a source of calcium and other minerals. So yes, pigeons should have access to grit at all times, they will eat as much as they need.
> 
> There's one exception though: there are some drugs that are not supposed to be taken with grit, as calcium can interfere with the absorption of the medicine. But that is only for a limited time, during the treatment.


Thanks Walter, I (Rob) cancelled the order immediately after reading what you had put!

I was kindly offered some metronidazole tabs by a very helpful lady on here, I think I'll accept her offer now!

And buy some grit!

As for hand taming, I've tried the food in hand approach.....she bites the hand, well, the thumb ON the that feeds her!!! Then goes back for more!!

We shall persevere. And thanks for your input, it's most appreciated 

Rob


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## Jaye

Great post, Johndove.

Rob...I will just remind you...start both the Metro and the Amoxycillin.

Also....I just want to comment on your expectations. Pippa is/was a Feral, and is old enough to have spent some time living the full Feral life. You may have to temper your expectations regarding her becoming a snuggle-bug.

Respect that she is Feral-imprinted, not human-imprinted (as, say, a 2-week old human-handfed Feral baby rescue might become). In time she'll figure you out, and you, her. But it may always be that she wants her space.

Also, read up or video-up on 'toweling' a bird. Gloves are not a great method....toweling is much better and you will definitely need to do this in order to administer the meds.

Lastly, do not necessarily interpret pecking and grunting as aggression. It is just part of the Pigeon lexicon.


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## amyable

Hi both,

I too think the multi dose products are too vague and Walter makes a good point. At least if there is no response to the treatment when giving the precise doses on meds you can deduce that a change of meds might be in order or the diagnosis might need reviewing.
No probs, will get some in the post. Sadly missed today now as I've been out all afternoon but will do so tomorrow asap.

I can totally understand your wish to have Pippa 'eating out of your hand', but these pigeons are quite complicated and it does take quite a while to get to grips with interpreting what they're telling you.

I only have one pigeon that is hand tame as he had to spend a couple of months in 'intensive care' as a baby with me, but although he happily flies onto my head or shoulders when I go to feed my others he now lives with, he will still run a mile if I go to pick him up.
He thinks of me as his mate aswell now and if I scratch his head which he loves he bites my hand mercilessly, but believe it or not, that's part of their mating ritual....
I also have three that will feed from my hands but it's taken a while to get them to that and still startle if they think I'm going to catch them.
There's a lot of strange behaviours but if you take it slowly and as someone said, let Pip come to you then over time I expect you will win him over.
Jaye said grunting and pecking isn't always aggression, but it may take until Pip's mature enough to start showing what sex he is for you to start understanding what he's saying!
As with most animals food is a great incentive to come close. :

Are you ok to start Pip on the Amoxicillin with the instructions Jaye gave you for reducing the dose to administer via a small syringe?

I am out this evening but will check back later when I get in to see what you need.

Janet

Janet


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## pirab buk

sounds like a respiratory infection all around..


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## Tashy/Rob

pirab buk said:


> sounds like a respiratory infection all around..


Short but sweet!!

What are your recommendations then sir?


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## Jay3

jondove said:


> IMO these meds that are mixed in the drinking water are a compromise solution for people who have a large number of birds with similar health problems and it's difficult to treat each bird individually, or for treating feral birds that you cannot catch...
> 
> For treating one individual pigeon, you should administer the exact dose yourself, otherwise you have no control over how much or how little antibiotic the pigeon will get. I looked on that site and I don't think that's ok at all: in case of overdose it says the pigeon can show signs of paralysis, now you wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Even if it's temporary, but who knows?
> 
> It doesn't say there anything about underdose, which is very dangerous too, because bacteria will get used and become resistant to the antibiotic. This could happen if she doesn't like the taste of the water mixed with antibiotic and drinks less than normal, so this could also lead to dehydration.
> 
> And finally, I hate when someone sells a product with a very commercial name (Easy canker !) but their site says nothing about the active substance. It's probably one of the well known antibiotics, but like I said I wouldn't buy anything until I know exactly what's in there....
> 
> 
> 
> In my short experience with pigeons I found out it's better to let them come to you when they feel like it, rather than chase them around trying to pet them, it only scares them more... Maybe try to give her some food out of your hand, if there is something that she likes the most?
> 
> Actually I don't have much experience with that, I hand raised mine from a very young age so it was easier to get them used to me this way. Anyway she will need to get slowly used to you and get to trust you, and that takes a lot of time and patience.
> 
> Also, the problem with the hand is that they see it as a predator, or an enemy anyway. Sometimes a pigeon that otherwise trusts you will run away from your hand, only to fly on your shoulder (or on your head), which they see as a safe perching place.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, especially if she eats hard seeds!
> 
> Pigeons don't have teeth, so the stones, sand, ground oyster shells and red stone in the grit help them crush the food. They are also a source of calcium and other minerals. So yes, pigeons should have access to grit at all times, they will eat as much as they need.
> 
> There's one exception though: there are some drugs that are not supposed to be taken with grit, as calcium can interfere with the absorption of the medicine. But that is only for a limited time, during the treatment.



Excellent post!


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi all, Rob here, ok firstly, have you read the thread on the kicked fantail pigeon yet?

My blood boiled almost instantly and I lost my cool somewhat!! I voiced my opinion.

Secondly, Amyable has so kindly sent me some meds as I'm reluctant to take Pippa to the vets as all they'll offer is euthanasia, NOT an option as I said before, Avian vets are clearly hard to come by.

Amyable has sent me 7 x 50mg Synulox (amoxicillin) tabs, some Metro (Flagyl) suspension, 2 x Appertex tab and a 1ml plastic syringe, Tasy and I are overwhelmed with this, such kindness shown, it makes me wonder if anyone would send me some paracetomol is I was hungover!!

So, help and advice is needed to administer these meds please, we'll start today with them!

Oh and we've just returned from walking our dogs Mo and Peanut, and went to check on Pippa, she'd decided to bathe in her water bowl, AND what looks like her food bowls too, the pic below tells all, I have to admit I was in tears laughing, because she jumped onto a table and just looked all forlorn and miserably wet, she's been 'towel hugged' and is now basking on the mantle with the fire drying her out. I was a tad concerned about the feathers on her crop (is it?) but as she's drying out her feathers are smoothing down.

Thanks in advance, Pippa says "yes Thank coooo toooo" (see what I did there?)

Pippa says "WHAT?"


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## amyable

Hi Rob,
Glad the meds have arrived. 

I think you've landed a real character there in Pip, he/she's going to be quite a big part of the family for one so small!!
That picture is hilarious. It makes you wonder what was going through her head when she tried that.

Right as far as the meds go.. did you have any more luck in weighing her as she does look quite small and the normal dosage I'd give a standard sized feral based on an average weight of 300/350gms may be a tad high.
You could put her in a small box to stand her on some scales. Obviously weight the box first and deduct that.
If you have no luck we'll make a calulated guess that she's around 200/250gms possibly.

I'll be back on later and sort the doses out. Just need to dash out for a min.

Janet


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## Tashy/Rob

Hiya Janet,

We managed to weigh her, and she tips the scales at 330gms!

And what a fight getting her into the box to weigh her.

She's not talkng, sorry, woooo woooo-ing to us now. It's strange, when Tash goes near her, she's quiet, but when I go near her, she start going 'woooo....woooo....wooo', which shortly turns into fully fledged coo-ing, with a puffed out chest and a cocky swagger about her, Pippa that is, not Tash!

I keep saying her, maybe she's a he!!

Head shape dictates a female though methinks.

Her sneezing has lessened and there's been NO phlegm or mucus apparent anywhere!!

Strange don't you think? So do you think we should use the meds to be sure and as a preventative measure?

What fun THAT'S gonna be!

Cheers

Rob & Tashy


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## amyable

Hi,

I'm amazed at 'his' weight as he looks so small in the picture.
I still can't believe how wet he is, even when mine have a bath they never get completely soaked like that!

I've just gone through your thread again as I'd forgotten all the original symptoms.
It's good that the sneezing has stopped for now at least.
I'd personally still give the Flagyl at least and we can double check with others as to their view on the Synulox as well for now.
I'd give 0.2ml twice a day although I have been told by a vet that it can be given at a higher dose if necessary but as we haven't got an confirmed diagnosis we'll go for the middle of the road.
This can be checked with Jaye when next on.
Shake the bottle hard first to mix the meds and then draw up the 0.2ml into the syringe. Wrap Pip in a towel on your lap and gently prize open his beak and lay the Flagyl on his tongue and let him swallow. It's not very pallatable to them due to the sugar content so don't be surprised if he objects.
you just need to be sure you don't squirt it down his windpipe at the base of his tongue. If necessary do it a small bit at a time but it's not a massive amount so should go down ok.

The Appertex is a one off so just break the tablet into two and pop it into his mouth towards the back of the throat. He'll should swallow that easily.

It sounds to me as if he's decided your his mate!!! they can confuse us as to whether they're male/female and sometimes it's only once one has laid an egg we can tell for sure.

I had the pleasure of releasing a feral rescue today I've had for six weeks having been caught and badly injured by a Sparrow Hawk. I'd assumed it was female all along as it grunted whenever I picked it and I've only ever heard my hens do that. However, once I released it back to it's flock, it flew straight over to another pigeon and started bowing and displaying like mad making up for lost time and most definitely a male.  Great to see though.

We'll see if anyone else has an opinion as the whether to treat with all the meds at this stage.


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## Tashy/Rob

Are you saying she is a he?


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## Jay3

It's really not possible to tell male or female until it lays an egg. LOL. Sometimes females will act more like a male, and sometimes, there are quiet males. Put a mirror in with the bird, and see how he acts.


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## Tashy/Rob

Jay3 said:


> It's really not possible to tell male or female until it lays an egg. LOL. Sometimes females will act more like a male, and sometimes, there are quiet males. Put a mirror in with the bird, and see how he acts.


Hi,

There's a mirror in the spare room where Pip sometimes chills!!

He/she just sleeps next to the reflection!!!

Go figure!

Rob


----------



## amyable

Who knows? I do have hens that bow and puff up their necks like males but usually when they're amongst other hens and I have hen pairs so one does take on a more male role.
I'm not saying Pip's definitely a male but is acting more like one towards you than a hen would. Sorry, it's still a guessing game for now.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Great!!

A gay pigeon!


----------



## Jaye

You can never tell. In the absence of an opposite sex, Pigeons will sometimes pair up with the same sex.

But the only way to tell for sure the sex, is to have the bird sexed. This can be done either by a blood draw, or by a feather pluck.

It is really not easy to guess...particularly with your buddy, because she/he is so young. An adult Pigeon,sometimes...their heads just have a certain look to 'em. But even giving that, and even giving how they act (aggressively or full of themselves, for example)...it is still a guessing game. We probably all have met a few which we swore was one sex but turned out to be the other.


----------



## amyable

Good Morning,

Just wondered how giving the meds went? Has Pip forgiven you yet.

Any signs of the sneezing sounds today?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi Janet,

Due to other commitments, we didn't get a chance to start Pip on the Metro as yet, we'll start at some point today!

She still hasn't sneezed anymore as yet, and there's no visible trace of phlegm anywhere!!

Oh and regardless of Pip's gender, Tash reckons he/she fancies me lol!!

Cheers

Rob


----------



## amyable

Tashy/Rob said:


> Hi Janet,
> 
> Due to other commitments, we didn't get a chance to start Pip on the Metro as yet, we'll start at some point today!
> 
> She still hasn't sneezed anymore as yet, and there's no visible trace of phlegm anywhere!!
> 
> Oh and regardless of Pip's gender, Tash reckons he/she fancies me lol!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob


Hi, I'm just double checking to see whether it's a good idea to still go with the Synulox. Probs get an answer about that later, but good that there's no sneezing/phlegm ATM!

Yes I agree with Tash, Pips into you. 

Janet


----------



## amyable

Hi Both,

I'm sorry I haven't been able to get a definite answer for you regarding putting Pip on the Synulox as well. I'd sent a PM to Jaye but not had a reply as yet, may not have been logged on to see the note.

I hope Pips continuing to be 'sneezeless' and isn't too upset at having the meds!!!

hopefully will get some advice on that point soon.

Janet


----------



## Jaye

If you started Synulox, keep administering for at least 7 days. Don't stop short of that. Given my druthers, I would do a whole 10 days, even if Pippa is completely asymptomatic.

You should really start the Metro now.


----------



## amyable

Thanks Jaye.

I'd sent Rob some Flagyl and Synulox but by the time they arrived Pip's sneezing had gone so that's why we wondered whether he should go onto that med straight away.
I think he's started the Flagyl.

Janet


----------



## Jay3

The Flagyl may be all he needs. I'd go with that first and see how it goes. Why give something to the bird unnecessarily?


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Started Pip on the meds......hardly any sneezes now and no signs of mucus anywhere!!!

She (he) is only on Flagyl at the moment, and she's not happy about taking it.....after we give her it she grunts and storms into her bedroom and sulks!!!

Her attitude is apalling but funny!!

Boy can she run across the landing into her room.

She decided, in her infinite wisdom, to bathe in her water bowl again. Will post a pic soon. 

Cheers all

Rob and Tashy


----------



## amyable

Hi both,

Thanks for the update, have been thinking about you all. 

I know they don't like the Flagyl usually, just have a word with Pip and tell 'him' theat all medicines that taste bad do you good....well that was what my mum used to tell me!!

Keep up the good work

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hiya,

As promised, Pips latest afterbath (get it?) pic!!!

In her water bowl incidentally!!

Pip says "Now what????..we've been through this!"


----------



## Jay3

Cute little guy.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Jay3 said:


> Cute little guy.


GUY??

You sure? As he/she seems to have the hots for me!!


----------



## Jaye

Only way to tell for sure is with a bloodtest sexing (vet) or a feather-pluck kit (online). 

If you don't wanna do that, then just stick with your best guess or wait for the egg-laying (or NOT).


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Jaye said:


> Only way to tell for sure is with a bloodtest sexing (vet) or a feather-pluck kit (online).
> 
> If you don't wanna do that, then just stick with your best guess or wait for the egg-laying (or NOT).


Am not plucking anything!!!

Rob


----------



## Jay3

What difference does it make, unless you are looking for a mate for him?


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Pippa (Pipidge) says:

" how cozy do I look?"



















"yes I AM laid on a soft warm furry blanket!"


----------



## Jay3

Just Adorable!


----------



## amyable

Tashy/Rob said:


> Pippa (Pipidge) says:
> 
> " how cozy do I look?"


I'd say you're looking pretty damn good, not to say spoilt and pampered too. 

How's the other eye looking these days, any sign of change?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

Janet, she's showing no sign of being able to see out of her other eye bless her!

First thing on a morning it takes her a while to open it, but it doesn't affect her grunts and attacks to my hands!!

Apart from that (and a few tiny sneezes) she's fine!

Tash said I looked like a proud father when I was taking the pics!

She's gotten under my skin, and into my heart, Tashs too!

Cheers

Rob, Tashy & Pip.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Folks, it's time to rename Pip.....To Pampered Pip!!

We just ran a bath, 2 inches deep, nice and warm, and popped Pip into it, she just sat there, until I put my hand into the bath and 'swooshed' it vigourously........and all hell broke loose....."cry Pippa and let loose the the Pidgie of war"

To say it was hilarious is an understatement, every time I swooshed the water she (we're sticking with 'she') went just mental!!! Check the pics below! And yes, we _*love*_ our Little Lady.....even if she does turn out to be a he!

"turkey swoosh".....we were out of breath laughing, Pip just sorta went 'huh?'
Rob says "is it me, or did Pip appear in one of the Jurassic Park movies?"









Snuggled in a towel warmed thoroughly on a radiator, I gently sorta rubbed her in it to remove excess water....and she let me....NO pecks!









And finally.....warming herself in front of a closely guarded fire.









We are so glad that Pip came back to us, she's fighting fit, eating well, and drinking boiled-then-cooled water with a small nip of Multibionta broad spectrum vitamins in it, and her sneezes have subsided into an occasional little 'peep', but, we're happier that she came to us because we're being gripped by this:










It's -0.8 degrees centigrade outside, and if a predator of any description hadn't have taken her.....Mother Nature may well have......and that simply won't do.

All the best from,

Tashy, Rob & Pampered Pip-squeak


----------



## Jay3

Great pictures. She must have loved the warmed towel.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Jay3 said:


> Great pictures. She must have loved the warmed towel.


She did, snuggled right into it!!

Is she spoilt or what?


----------



## amyable

I know how you feel looking outside ATM. It doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened to her.

My local white flock were evicted from their long term home just before Xmas even though there are no plans to demolish it yet. Totally uncaring people.
They have always had shelter to get them through the winters. When I popped down to check on them yesterday they were still just sitting on the roof of the building and it hurts to think of them tonight as the snow falls. I wish I could swoop them all up and bring them back here for a warm.

Pips' one very lucky pidge. So glad you're smitten, I wish more folks knew how special they are, maybe there wouldn't be so much cruelty towards them.

Great pictures. 

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> My local white flock were evicted from their long term home just before Xmas even though there are no plans to demolish it yet. Totally uncaring people.
> They have always had shelter to get them through the winters.


Bastards!


----------



## Jay3

amyable said:


> I know how you feel looking outside ATM. It doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened to her.
> 
> My local white flock were evicted from their long term home just before Xmas even though there are no plans to demolish it yet. Totally uncaring people.
> They have always had shelter to get them through the winters. When I popped down to check on them yesterday they were still just sitting on the roof of the building and it hurts to think of them tonight as the snow falls. I wish I could swoop them all up and bring them back here for a warm.
> 
> Pips' one very lucky pidge. So glad you're smitten, I wish more folks knew how special they are, maybe there wouldn't be so much cruelty towards them.
> 
> Great pictures.
> 
> Janet




That would break my heart to see it too.
There was a feral flock out here that used to roost up on the STAPLES letters that were on the front of the building. One snowy night we were up at that shopping plaza, and there they were, all perched up on those giant letters. The bone chilling wind was just whipping the snow in on them. They really didn't have any protection at all. I would have loved to have brought them all home. Broke my heart just looking at them. I can still see it.


----------



## amyable

Jay3 said:


> Broke my heart just looking at them. I can still see it.


Yes it does stay with you.
I hadn't been able to go down to those shops since the day I'd had to help get them out before it was boarded up, found it too upsetting. I had hoped they'd have found a new home and dispersed but sadly not. When I heard the weather forecast was turning to snow I went down to see and when I saw they were still there, went back to take some feed in the hope it would keep their strength up over this bad spell.
For some reason they didn't come down for it and so it's probably buried under all the snow now.

Rob, that's too good a word for these big wigs that only care about the financial gain in developing all these old buildings.

Janet


----------



## Jay3

amyable said:


> Yes it does stay with you.
> I hadn't been able to go down to those shops since the day I'd had to help get them out before it was boarded up, found it too upsetting. I had hoped they'd have found a new home and dispersed but sadly not. When I heard the weather forecast was turning to snow I went down to see and when I saw they were still there, went back to take some feed in the hope it would keep their strength up over this bad spell.
> For some reason they didn't come down for it and so it's probably buried under all the snow now.
> 
> Rob, that's too good a word for these big wigs that only care about the financial gain in developing all these old buildings.
> 
> Janet



Oh, I'm so sorry. I would have done the same thing.
I hope they find a safe place to go.


----------



## pirab buk

Thanks for sharing Pippas story along with pictures. So far, a happy story!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Pippa is getting quite a character now, she loves her once a week bath so much that when we run one for ourselves she flies into the bathroom to try to get in it herself so we have to shut the door to keep her out. Pippa used to try and get out of the windows by flying into them but now she doesn't seem as bothered, she still grunts and won't let us near her but likes our company. She gets up on a morning about 7am (weekend) and flies round "her" bedroom to wake us up so we have to go in and put her tv on or her radio. If you leave her bedroom door open she comes downstairs during the day and goes back to bed on a night.
Tashy, Rob & Pippa

Pippa says "Cosy perch after my relaxing bath"


----------



## pirab buk

*pippa*

Pippa sounds so much like "my' pigeon! Funny little things, eh?
It sounds like Pippa is carrying on quite well. Who would've thought a pigeon would be so personable "Craow Dum" has "his" fav spot on the couch. He loves to watch "judge Judy" and football. he lets me know when it is time for bed because he get grouchy by pecking at me and twirling around.


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob/Tash,

Great to get an update, I was wondering how Pippa was doing!

Looks like you two co-ordinate quite well colour wise from that picture. Pip must be one clean dude with his regular bathing rituals.
It's hilarious really how he/she seems to have you two well under control as far as routine goes. It's lovely to hear about her antics.

Please keep them coming.

Is everything seem ok now as fars as any health issues go?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> It's hilarious really how he/she seems to have you two well under control as far as routine goes.


she wishes!!



amyable said:


> Is everything seem ok now as fars as any health issues go?


Yeah she's fine, very very rare sneezes now. We were slightly concerned about her doing quite regular dark green poops, but they're not wet or sloppy, and she's started doing normal brown and white topped ones now!!

All in all, she's such a character and we love her, even if she tortures us and the dogs, especially the dogs, and wakes us up early on weekend, we still love her, of course Tash won't admit her soft spot for Psycho-Pip, but it's there!!

Cheers all

Rob, Tash and Pip.....our dogs say "Hi" too!


----------



## Jaye

Thanks for the update...that's one lucky Pigeon ! Thanks top both of you for opening your hearts to your pal....


----------



## pirab buk

Craow Dum does green poops now and then. I think an occasional firm dark greenie (so long as it is NOT lime greenie ) is OK.
I am glad Pippa is now doing brown ones. It sounds like he/she is /has fighting off what ever ailment.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

***UPDATE***

It's Rob,

Ok, so there I am, relaxing in a nice hot bubble bath, and Pip (who we are now almost sure is male because he now coo's, puffs out his chest and struts in circles when Tash talks to him) flaps up onto the side of the bath, and perches there for a while, Tash was watching him, so I said "let's see what he does"......

What happened next was totally unexpected. He hopped onto my shoulder, walked across my chest, and onto my quite large beer belly, so, I 'covered' some certain areas with 'both' hands (I wish) and watched, and before I knew it he was sat in the bath, on my thigh, bobbing up and down, then, BOOM....the wings started flapping and his head went under....full fledged pigeon bath, while I'M in the bath!!!

Whatever is next I don't know, but I'm sure that there can't be many people in the world who have taken a bath with a pigeon, especially a man with a MALE pigeon!!!

No photos of this because I'm simply not a pretty sight when naked!

Then, he lets me towel dry him, he must love the heated towel, and allows me to make sure he's as dry as I can get him.......then he'll 'have a go' at me as per usual!!

My one concern is that I later realised it was a bubble bath, so had well, bubble bath in it, and he did put his head right under, so I'm a tad worried about his eyes...oh, and he's starting to see shadows and bright lights on his blind side, that must be a good sign!!!

So, will his eyes be ok?

Later all!

Rob, Tash and Pip!


----------



## pirab buk

That is a pretty funny story!
Craow Dum will jump in the sink when I am washing dishes. I just try to make sure he is rinsed off of detergent. If he looks likes he wants to bathe I take the dishes out, rinse the sink and fill with tepid clean water.
I think Pippa should be OK but I would'nt recommend sharing the tub with the pigeon because they tend to drink the (soapy) water.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

pirab buk said:


> That is a pretty funny story!
> Craow Dum will jump in the sink when I am washing dishes. I just try to make sure he is rinsed off of detergent. If he looks likes he wants to bathe I take the dishes out, rinse the sink and fill with tepid clean water.
> I think Pippa should be OK but I would'nt recommend sharing the tub with the pigeon because they tend to drink the (soapy) water.


I had no choice lol!!!


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob, Well things are getting steamy up there now!

I have read about folks that have pigeons that shower with them so a bath...why not.
Pippa shows an incredible love of water.

As pirub buk says maybe best to rinse him off if he's got detergent on him just in case it's a bit harsh on his skin. Obviously if he were an outside bird he's probably lose the waterproofing on his feathers using soap but as long as he's an indoor pet I'm sure he'll be ok.

So you reckon his sight is improving in the bad eye, that's great.
How did you notice? does it look different or have you just been experimenting with creeping up on his bad side?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Hi Rob, Well things are getting steamy up there now!
> 
> I have read about folks that have pigeons that shower with them so a bath...why not.
> Pippa shows an incredible love of water.
> 
> As pirub buk says maybe best to rinse him off if he's got detergent on him just in case it's a bit harsh on his skin. Obviously if he were an outside bird he's probably lose the waterproofing on his feathers using soap but as long as he's an indoor pet I'm sure he'll be ok.
> 
> So you reckon his sight is improving in the bad eye, that's great.
> How did you notice? does it look different or have you just been experimenting with creeping up on his bad side?
> 
> Janet


I have a Led Lenser torch (flashlight to our brothers and sisters across the pond) and I was changing the batteries, then tested it, it's a bright torch, I shone it onto the wall, Pip was settled on the mantle with his blindside to the wall......He reacted to the focused dot!!!

And as for steamy.......forget that one!!

Cheers

Rob, Tash & the 'kids'


----------



## amyable

Tashy/Rob said:


> I have a Led Lenser torch (flashlight to our brothers and sisters across the pond) and I was changing the batteries, then tested it, it's a bright torch, I shone it onto the wall, Pip was settled on the mantle with his blindside to the wall......He reacted to the focused dot!!!
> 
> And as for steamy.......forget that one!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob, Tash & the 'kids'


I suppose Pip might always have had that bit of sight there but at least you'll now be able to see if his reactions increase any as time goes on.
Good job.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

You know, every time I see Craow Dum in the dish, bathing, it makes me smile!!

He looks like he's having a hoot!!!


----------



## pirab buk

It is obvious that Pippa is very comfortable with you. So far, things are going A-Ok for Pippa!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi all, It's Rob

Ok, we need some help and advice again, not medical, this is more, I suppose you could say.....emotional.

Tash called me today to say that Pip had been visited by what appeared to possibly be his sibling, Pip was on the window ledge watching the other ferals walking around on the roof he used to live on, and they were clearly doing their courtship ritual. And Pip was joining in, on the the other side of the window, inside the house of course.

Tash said the the possible female sibling was staring at Pip, and he was staring back, their markings and colouration are identical.

When Tash popped downstairs, she could here Pip cooing and hear his feet tippy-tapping as he strutted around, when Tash got to the top of the stairs, there was another different pigeon on the window ledge outside, they were flirting!!

Now, here's where the help and emotional side comes into it........are we doing the right thing in keeping Pip with us? I know he's blind in one eye, and numerous people, including a friend who used to race pigeons, have all said, that he'll be open to easy predation, and we don't want to happen, yet we both can't help feeling sorry for him being inside with us, we don't want anything horrible to happen to our little Pip, but, we don't want to see him miserable in any way shape or form.

So, what do we do?

Please help, we've spoken briefly about acquiring a friend for Pip, preferably male (if Pip is indeed male), but how do we go about that for example?

We love Pip as he's now a part of our lives and family, we don't want to lose him, but, we also want what is best for him!

Thanks in advance.

(almost heartbroken) Rob & Tashy (Pip is on the fence for this one)


----------



## Woodnative

Think of it this way.......it will be more heartbroken if he is out and get killed by a predator. He is fine with you.......but probably would be happier with a mate. Though males can pair off.....it is usually more difficult. I would get him a female mate and let them lead a normal life inside with you. You can certainly replace their eggs with fakes if you don't want little ones.


----------



## Jay3

Don't see what the decision is here. One eye.............hawk bait. So what's the question? He would be happy with a mate.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Jay3 said:


> Don't see what the decision is here. One eye.............hawk bait. So what's the question? He would be happy with a mate.


How would we go about introducing a mate?

How old would he/she have to be??

And so on....

And so on....


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob,

I have to agree, one eye is a great disadvantage. I have a one eyed Tumbler and although he can fly he's often crashing into me if I happen to come up on his blind side. Poor Pip, needs a friend if you're happy to make that commitment.
I think a hen would be better as Woodnative said, you just have to swap any eggs for dummies so as not to increase the family. They'll be happy sitting on those and playing happy families.
Hens pair up and often lay four eggs between them so if by any chance Pip was a hen he/she will still be happy. Don't know if two males double up the same, more likely to argue I'd think.

How to introduce? Umm.
I'd make a place set up that's 'their's firstly. Maybe a cage or large dog crate so they have an area they know to keep to. Makes it easier to keep clean etc.
Possibly get Pip used to being in there and then, when you have a friend for him, place her in a cage or such like next to Pips home so they can see and interact with each other but just in case they don't click keep apart and watch how they get on.
Then it would be introduce them with supervision a bit at a time.
Age isn't easy to determine after a certain age, Obviously another youngster would be good aso they have plenty of time to look forward to together!

Are you going to open the window and see who comes in first!! (only joking) don't want Pip escaping!
Does your friend still have pigeons or where will you find a mate?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Wow!!

So not TOO complicated then!!

I have no idea where to find a mate for Pip, that's if He is he and he ain't a she!!! (now what's complicated?)

I'll keep checking on here to see if anyone finds a young feral and I may be in an adoptive mood!!

We just feel sorry for the little one!

He or she is such a cutie eh?

Rob, Tash & Pip, our dogs say "hiiii"


----------



## Jay3

People do find birds that they need to home. I'm sure one will show up. Doesn't really have to be a feral.


----------



## amyable

A friend of mine who takes in rescues has a young feral found as a squab and she's hand raised it since. We were going to take it to a rescue centre next week for release. Have no idea on sex though! Would be good if you can get an unreleasable that can't go back to the wild.
I always worry when they've been hand reared in case they find it hard to adapt.
I know someone that's always got recues in need of a home as they're quite often PMV recoveries. I know she has one ATM.
Will do some checking for you.

Give it a short while, I'm sure there'll be no problem finding the right friend for Pip and you of course. You need to get on with it as well!

Hand reared are always good as far as they're happy with human contact but a disabled pidge is also deserving of a good home.
Lets see what comes up. 

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Janet,

That's great, thanks so much!

Rob


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob, Have spoken to my friend today that has the hand reared little chap/chapess.
It was found in a bundle almost dead by a little girl she knows and was in a very bad way. It's now doing well and can feed itself so she does need to move it onto the next phase of it's life.
Now she isn't having too much contact with it in case it needs to be released but obviously it's used to living indoors ATM and very happy with people being around.
A good possible for you.
Sadly it's a long way for it to fly up to you!! If you were to consider homing it we'd have to think about how to help, possibly courier it 'up north'.
Have no clue as to it's sex though as it's young, it may not know itself yet either!
Bearing in mind, heaven forbid they might not get on it did cross my mind that if Pip and 'It' take exception to each other you could gradually soft release it into your garden family. It can be helped along with finding food if they come every day.

Anyway have a think as we can't take it to a rescue centre this week so no panic.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Hi Rob, Have spoken to my friend today that has the hand reared little chap/chapess.
> It was found in a bundle almost dead by a little girl she knows and was in a very bad way. It's now doing well and can feed itself so she does need to move it onto the next phase of it's life.
> Now she isn't having too much contact with it in case it needs to be released but obviously it's used to living indoors ATM and very happy with people being around.
> A good possible for you.
> Sadly it's a long way for it to fly up to you!! If you were to consider homing it we'd have to think about how to help, possibly courier it 'up north'.
> Have no clue as to it's sex though as it's young, it may not know itself yet either!
> Bearing in mind, heaven forbid they might not get on it did cross my mind that if Pip and 'It' take exception to each other you could gradually soft release it into your garden family. It can be helped along with finding food if they come every day.
> 
> Anyway have a think as we can't take it to a rescue centre this week so no panic.
> 
> Janet


Hiya Janet,

Where is the little one!

I work in Halifax so am sorta central in the country!!

And are there any pics of him/her?

Cheers

Rob.


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob,

'It's' in North Birmingham. Sutton Coldfield West Midlands. Sadly not exactly local.
I haven't got a picture, but can ask if I can pop in to get one sometime.
I actually saw pidgie at the weekend when I collected a homer she had that needs homing! Cute as they all are. Dark if I remember correctly.

Will try and let you have a pic if I can get to see her soon.
Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

I'm prepared to come down (on Tashs authority) to collect a friend for Pip!!

Such is our devotion!!


----------



## amyable

Oh Wow, that's amazing!!

Maybe we can work out a 'meet' somewhere inbetween if it helps.

Have had an amazingly busy day and found homes for a disabled Woodpecker, a disabled crow and maybe little pidgie now.
Just need a home for my homer now to complete the day!

Do you still want me to get a pic before you decide?

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Oh Wow, that's amazing!!
> 
> Maybe we can work out a 'meet' somewhere inbetween if it helps.
> 
> Have had an amazingly busy day and found homes for a disabled Woodpecker, a disabled crow and maybe little pidgie now.
> Just need a home for my homer now to complete the day!
> 
> Do you still want me to get a pic before you decide?
> 
> Janet


Not if it's too much trouble!!!


----------



## amyable

It's just a case of catching my friend in, so no trouble.

Janet


----------



## pirab buk

The first two months of having Craow Dum we were visited by a few pigeons on our back deck looking in. One day there was close to fifty! It was funny. I put food out for them but I guess it was a "look /see" for them. Once and awhile one or two will come by to vist.Craow Dum can never be released to the wild because of his handicap. He would be dead in a day. I, personally, would not release Pippa. It is nice for him to see his friends via window. It's only my opinion.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

pirab buk said:


> The first two months of having Craow Dum we were visited by a few pigeons on our back deck looking in. One day there was close to fifty! It was funny. I put food out for them but I guess it was a "look /see" for them. Once and awhile one or two will come by to vist.Craow Dum can never be released to the wild because of his handicap. He would be dead in a day. I, personally, would not release Pippa. It is nice for him to see his friends via window. It's only my opinion.


All opinions count my friend, Pip can see his old 'crew' in the garden, but it's more us who are bothered with the thought of him being lonely.

We're in the process of getting him (her?) a mate!!!

Oh, and I have to ask.....does Craow Dum mean anything?

it's a really unusual name!


----------



## pirab buk

LOL! 
Craow Dum means "black beard" in Thai
Pirab Buk means "super pigeon" in Thai


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob,

Been to see the little feral today and snapped you a picture.
My friend has hand fed her since she first came as she was nearly dead when found in the gutter. Once 'it' was self feeding she's not been handling her as she was grooming her for release.
She's well used to people being around but not fully tame as Pat had kept her quiet assuming she would have to be released.

She's quite happy for you to home her if you still want a pal for Pip. Might be an idea if you do decide to have her for Pat to try keep her people friendly. There's no problem if you don't but if so she'll just need to know and she'll then keep her separate and pass her onto a rescue centre to get her groomed for release.
She can go either way at this stage.
Pidgie was a bit concerned when I put the camera in her face as she felt she wasn't looking her best but apparently compared to how she looked when she was found pidge is looking pretty good. 

Here's a pic.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hiya Jan,

She looks ok to me, we'd prefer her more hand tame in the hope our Pip might follow suit and stop 'knacking' me lol!!!

I'll discuss things further with Tash, and let you know tomorrow maybe!!

Thanks Jan.

Rob


----------



## amyable

That's fine. She was hand tame but once self feeding kicks she didn't need to keep being picked up. I'm sure she'd soon get back to it especially if food was on offer. I picked her up today and didn't get pecked!

The pecking Pip does is just normal behaviour. My little tame male outside who thinks I'm his mate pecks the hell out of my hand, in affection!!! It still hurts and he's only got a tiny beak. 
So you may just have to get some steel gloves!

Anyway have a think about Pidge, no problem

Janet


----------



## pirab buk

My pigeon hangs out with my cockatiels. he will walk into the 'bird room" and sit on the table just to be with the other birds.Sometimes, they annoy him and he would rather hang out with just me.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Why do they affect us so?

We've fed our ferals for ages, we have a 'hardcore 12' that visit us,and in turn we regularly have about 30 in total!!

We spend ££'s per month feeding them. We don't mind.

Why do they affect us so......


----------



## amyable

Tashy/Rob said:


> Why do they affect us so......


It's something I'd like to know!
I've had two sleepless nights worrying about this lovely young homer I had that had been caught by a cat. I was determined to find the right home for her but didn't know where to start. Today I landed the perfect place but as I handed her over I felt quite sad. I'd only had her since Saturday.
There's something quite special about them whether feral or domestic.
ALso the ferals have such bad press from some very ignorant folks and they have to endure much persecution so I feel very indignant when I here them put down.

They're such characters and like with you, when you've lived with one you can see their big personalities come through and they soon wrap you around their little toes!

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hey there,

Actually, we're not 'Pidgie virgins'......

Maybe a month or so before Pip invaded our lives, Percy joined us, a possible domestic with a healed but deformed broken wing, he was in our garden late on, in the dark, he allowed me to simply pick him up. But, unfortunately from the off, he was ill, with bright green poo. Constantly puffed up.

After some deliberation,we took him to a 'no kill' sanctuary, but, again heart breakingly so, he died. We had him 36 hours, but broke our hearts. Hence, our devotion to Pip.

Percy was lovely, bless him.....fly free Percy.....

Sat on Tash's lap.....


----------



## amyable

That is so sad. I'm sorry Percy didn't make it.
He looks so poorly in the picture and green poops and fluffed up is never good. Sadly when you get them that easily it means they're far worse than you can imagine and it takes a lot to pull them through. The problem is not knowing soon enough what you're dealing with. Possible canker as the green poops show he was starving. Thankfully he isn't suffering now and had a safe place at the end.
Having meds on hand can make all the difference if you're ever likely to find sick pigeons. It's often a case of hitting them with a couple of meds when they're so ill as there isn't always time to wait and see which they need.

I expect you know a lot more now anyway should another Percy land at your door and maybe treat them yourselves if time's of the essence. At least you know where to look for advice.

I bet you were more worried than you let on with Pip having lost Percy like that. So glad things worked out better for Pip.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

It hurt......

We worried!

And still worry......


----------



## Jay3

amyable said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> Been to see the little feral today and snapped you a picture.
> My friend has hand fed her since she first came as she was nearly dead when found in the gutter. Once 'it' was self feeding she's not been handling her as she was grooming her for release.
> She's well used to people being around but not fully tame as Pat had kept her quiet assuming she would have to be released.
> 
> She's quite happy for you to home her if you still want a pal for Pip. Might be an idea if you do decide to have her for Pat to try keep her people friendly. There's no problem if you don't but if so she'll just need to know and she'll then keep her separate and pass her onto a rescue centre to get her groomed for release.
> She can go either way at this stage.
> Pidgie was a bit concerned when I put the camera in her face as she felt she wasn't looking her best but apparently compared to how she looked when she was found pidge is looking pretty good.
> 
> Here's a pic.




What a beautiful little thing.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Jay3 said:


> What a beautiful little thing.


Should we?


----------



## Jay3

Well, I'm prejudiced. LOL. She's beautiful and looks a lot like one of my favorites. And mine is very friendly as I raised her. Her name is Delilah. She is a very cute little thing. And I like her face.


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob,

Just wondered if you had any thoughts about Pidge.
There's absolutely no panic but I know my friend is taking a Woodie up to the rescue centre Saturday and so if you've decided not to home her then I can tell her to take Pidge as well.
There's no problem though for her to hang onto 'it' for a week longer if you'd like a bit more time to think as it's important for you to be sure about taking on another bird. She'll take it the next trip otherwise.

I was only asking in case you'd made a definite 'no' decision then it might as well go on this run.

I don't want you to feel under pressure to decide though, I'd hate you to feel that so hope you don't mind me asking,

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hiya Jan,

Yeah we'll take Pidge, I'll sort something for next Thursday, I'll be at Halifax, so can pop down for her/him after work.

I finish at 12 Thursday's you see!!

We'll sort something yeah?

Cheers,

Rob


----------



## amyable

That's fine Rob. I can tell Pat to hang onto Pidge then. Oh bless her what a lucky little pidge.

You'll have to find a better name for 'her' once she's settled!!!

I'm sure it will be great but if, heaven forbid they don't get along I'm sure Pidge can be introduced into your garden flock and still be better off than just being set free into the wild so it's a great outcome for her either way.

I'll bring her over to mine and spend time with her so please don't worry about when you collect if you can't make it immediately, now we know she's not going to have to be hardened up!

I'll 'speak' with you after the weekend to arrange things.

Have a great weekend

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Further 'bathing' update

Pip won't bathe alone now!!

This time, it was Tash chilling in the bath, Pip was asleep in his little top of the wardrobe roost.....the bath was starting to run.....up jumps Pip.

Next thing, Tash is laid there, and Pip jump onto the side of the bath, then onto her knee.....and spladoosh!!!

We tried him in a bath by himself before, but he wasn't having any off it. Until Tash got in we didn't realise he doesn't wanna bathe alone!! He loves a gentle rub down with a soft warm towel, he even snuggles into my chest. But alas, once he's dry, it's business as usual. Occasional scrap with me!!

To be honest, he's becoming more at ease with us, he's less hand-shy, and even comes for an afternoon nap in our bedroom.

He's such a love!!

He's starting to get the upper hand, claw....talon now though lol!

Cya

Rob, Tash and Boss Pip!


----------



## amyable

Hi Both,

Just been down south for the day to surprise our daughter for her birthday and only just got home, shattered. 
I've just seen your PM but couldn't reply on there ATM as I need to do some deleting but am a bit too tired now, poor old soul.
I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Love the update by the way!!

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

If you don't laugh at this........











There's something very wrong with you...


----------



## amyable

LOL. 

I thought you'd have made Pip an Easter Bunny outfit if you're going to be seasonal!!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> LOL.
> 
> I thought you'd have made Pip an Easter Bunny outfit if you're going to be seasonal!!


No. could only find a Santa hat!!


----------



## pirab buk

OMG what a great idea for (next years) Christmas card!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

pirab buk said:


> OMG what a great idea for (next years) Christmas card!


It's an iPhone app called 'elf ur face'

Free!!!


----------



## amyable

Rob & Tash, I have taken delivery of a very sweet pigeon today!!

I collected Pidgie from my friend and brought 'it' back here for when you can pick him/her up.
Considering it's only just 'met' me it's quite happy to be around me. I have her in a pet carrier but have left the door open and she's spent all afternoon in there. Once I took her out to check her over she decided to pop in and out and explore a bit. She nibbles my fingers, no biting! yet! and seems to like sitting on my shoulder having a ride about. Also likes having her neck tickled.
Eats and drinks ok. Feathers look a bit messy, needs to have a first moult and then should be quite a looker I reckon.
To be honest have no clue whether it's he or she which doesn't help you much. I do hope whatever it turns out to be Pip likes it as it will make a great little friend.
Seen your PM this evening. Whatever day suits you best. Will reply better tomorrow as I need to delete a bit more again.

Janet


----------



## Woodnative

Updates? Did you guys get the other pigeon? How is everybody getting along?


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Woodnative said:


> Updates? Did you guys get the other pigeon? How is everybody getting along?


Yes we did, we went to Amyables extensive estate in the exclusive 'millionaires row' she lives in, her butler Cameron didn't like me and was very vocal about the matter!!

She (Poppy) was so friendly she even sat on Tash's shoulder for the 162 mile journey back from the 'golden retreat' area, one thing that was out of place there was Amyables white Ferrari was quite dirty.

Poppy, as the new pidge is known (although that may change) was a little nervous around Pip though, this was Friday last, but now they've become very firm friends! She was preening him on Sunday, he was in his prime.

Poppy, as Amyable stated, is a lovely little pidge, sitting on your shoulder, especially if she felt a bit cold, she settled down and actually snuggled into you neck.

But yesterday, early evening, out of the blue, she turned a quite nasty, pecking our hands quite hard, accompanied by the usual Pip style warning grunts. And has become very hand shy, therefore, alas, she is now no longer trusted on our shoulders, as she has pecked my ears too hard for comfort, and in turn, we can't risk pecked eyes......other than that, her and Pip (yes Pip n Pop...go figure!!) are getting on famously, it's just a shame she's kinda turned against us!! 

Anyone got any ideas why she might have turned this way!! We'll obviously have them both with us for some time, even to the point were we've bought a 'cat tower' with perches, hammocks, sleep boxes etc, we'll make a raised surround at the base and put nesting materials in there, as we're sure that eggs may well soon appear......we're spoiling them both.

We're just concerned about the sudden, *very* sudden change in her bahaviour, surely it's not normal, ok with Pip it is as he see's me as his sparring partner, which I don't mind as it's funny actually.

So, any thoughts, hints, tips or ideas to smooth things over.

Thanks to Amyable, and apologies for tripping over her full sized snooker table, almost breaking the sauna door before stopping just short of her Olympic sized swimming pool!!

Cheers all

'Us lot'.....


Poppy (please ignore my double chin)


----------



## Jay3

What an adorable little thing! She's very cute. Don't worry.............that change in personality happens a lot when a pij finds a mate. It's like they only have eyes for them, and you become chopped liver. LOL. No matter what breed of bird, they are much friendlier when you are their only flock. But when you give them a mate, do they appreciate it? NO! They are more for each other then. This is all new to her. And all she wants is him. But in time, she should settle down and accept you again. But they are normally a bit more aloof after mating up.

I have one little cock Sammy, who acctually has become friendlier with me as time went on. I just love that bird. Sometimes his mate seems annoyed when he would rather be on me, begging for peanuts. She calls him back, but he never listens. I really think she will calm down with you after a bit.


----------



## pirab buk

He might have been tired or just had 'enough" for the day. Even my sweet friendly beakless baby will act pissy at times-usually at night!He will "bust-a-move" twirling and pecking at me just to let me know he's done with me. Give him his space.


----------



## amyable

Hi Rob, just seen your post LOL.
By now I think folks might have established that Rob has a wicked sense of humour a vivid imagination. 
Butler Cameron is my disabled dog, not so keen on strangers coming into the house but was goaded somewhat by Rob on his hands and knees growling back at him!
Swimming pool, I must have missed that or were you referring to the pint sized fish pond in the garden?
and who's ever heard of a white Ferrari more like my daughter's Ford KA. The one thing you got right Rob was it's very dirty. 

Anyway, back to the problem of Poppy's behaviour. I'm feeling almost guilty that the sweet little Poppy I handed over has turned into a raging maniac. The tranquilizers I'd given her must have worn off!!

I expect it's due to her having a love interest although she is still quite young. If they get to the stage of sitting on eggs you'll probably find when it's Pip's turn to sit during the day she'll be at a loose end and more inclined to want company. I'd give her time and still lots of attention and bribes with any treats you find she likes. For all mine that don't like me handling them it's amazing how close they come when I've got watercress in my hands and even closer when it's their turn to have some hemp as a treat.

Interesting to see how she goes over the next week or so.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Well.....

It's official, we've spoiled them!!

They're now totally inseperable, and loving it!!

Look what we've done for them now!!!



















Pampered or what?


----------



## pirab buk

You are bloody hilarious!
How spoiled is that!?! Ha!
I love it!


----------



## Quazar

Youre gonna have a very busy time trying to keep that clean


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Quazar said:


> Youre gonna have a very busy time trying to keep that clean


Minor details!

We love em.


----------



## amyable

Just seen these new pics!!!!!

What a great gin palace. The two lovebirds are looking so cosey and comfy up there.

Jx


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Just seen these new pics!!!!!
> 
> What a great gin palace. The two lovebirds are looking so cosey and comfy up there.
> 
> Jx


It is nice isn't it!

Poppy has gone psycho.....

Very hand shy, pecking all the time, and now she won't even perch on our shoulders or heads without flapping off straight away!!

Still, as long as they're happy with each other......

Us lot!


----------



## amyable

Hi again,

You may have already done this but just ignore her and keep your hands out of sight as much as you can when getting close to her.
Even when she was here, she'd fly onto my shoulder but if I put my hands up to try and get her to sit on my hands she'd fly off. Also when I first went near her she'd back off, she had to come to me when she'd calmed down.
For some reason most pigeons, no matter how tame are frightened by hands.
It's a bit like my old dog lost. He was so scarey if strangers came in but the folks that ignored him he was fine with.

I suppose as far as Poppy goes the more you try and she sees these hands coming at her, she'll be wary that you may be going to take her somewhere.
I'd just talk to her and do the bobbing your head at her as that's how they seem to act towards each other. Not sure what I'm saying sometimes but if I nod my head at my birds they usually nod back. I think Tash said she does this with Pip.
Glad she's happy though with Pip. 

Janet


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

What a fantastic post! Keep those photos coming!! GORGEOUS pigeon mansion!!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Well, initially we tried to buy this for them:










But we knew we'd have issues at the 'nothing to declare' door!!

And here's 'Kray Twins' chilling:










We're doing an album for you to peruse at leisure!!

Watch this space!!

Cheers from 'us lot'


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

I'm a little worried about pippa as poppy keeps pecking at his face, he has his head down and tail feathers up whilst making a noise for her to preen him, but she has been really pecking around his face that he has lost feathers around his beak, eyes and chest. Whenever I talk to pippa she runs over and pecks him, she sometimes pecks his eyelids and I'm frightened she catches his good eye. Apart from this they are really good together they follow each other everywhere. Is this normal?

Tashy


----------



## amyable

Hi Tashy,

It is normal for them to peck/preen their mate a lot around the eyes and head. I've watched them before and sometimes it does seem a bit intense.
Obviously as Pip has the eye problem you need to make sure it doesn't get sore but Pip would probably move his head if it was hurting.

The lack of feathers could also be because Pip is moulting. When they have a major moult they look really terrible as they lose a lot of feathers around the head and neck area. Just a thought.

I think our Poppy maybe a bit jealous seeing you talking to Pip, could be something to do with her recent behaviour change. 
She's really quite young to be in a steady relationship and isn't quite sure how to handle her emotions! Maybe a bit of therapy needed. 

Keep an eye on Pip's eye! if it looks sore maybe bathe it but hopefully he'll keep it shut when Poppy's preening close to it.

Janet

I can't get over how alike they look. Pigeon Pair!


----------



## pirab buk

*pecking*

My cockatiels do that too BUT sometimes my male gets a little too aggressive and pushy to the point that he he has caused some damage. Keep an eye on the situation, it is possible that Poppy may be getting a bit pushy for his own good and that you might have to give him a 'time out" separation. (They CAN see each other but housed in different spots)


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Ok, we're confused. Well, I think our Pidgies are more confused!!

They're......'firkytoodling' each other!!!

As in been on each others backs so-as-to-speak!!

We actually may have gay Pidgies, as there's no eggs as yet!!

God help us lol

Us lot!


----------



## amyable

Hi Both,

well that's a new word for it!!!

Yes you may have gay pigeons but the female does often mount the male as well, so not really sure with yours yet. Still reckon they're experimenting, maybe deciding who's who and what to do with what. 

I'm really looking forward to eventually finding out what they decide.
All good fun and keeping you guessing anyway!!

Love all round

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

I know it's been a long time since we last posted anything so here goes. Poppy has had 2 eggs which after sitting on them for about 2-3 weeks they rejected them. We now have another three eggs 2 normal size ones and 1 small one. They are taking it in turns to sit on them poppy most of the time pip if he has too so poppy can have a break. We have uploaded more pics to our album if anyone wants to have a look at how similar they are. Poppy was completely bald on the back of her neck and we thought pip was bullying her but it has all grown back now so she might have just been shedding her feathers. They are usually quite inseperable except when pip's in a mood and doesn't want her to sleep near him, he knocks her off the top of the door.

Tashy, Rob, Pop & Pip (pigies)
Peanut & Mo (dogs)


----------



## Quazar

Good to hear Pip & Pop are still doing well, they certainly look like they're living the life of luxury 




Tashy/Rob said:


> ....We now have another *three* eggs 2 normal size ones and 1 small one.....


hmmmm....cast your mind back 



Tashy/Rob said:


> ...Ok, we're confused. Well, I think our Pidgies are more confused!!
> They're......'firkytoodling' each other!!!
> As in been on each others backs so-as-to-speak!!
> *We actually may have gay Pidgies*,....
> God help us lol


Maybe you guessed right although got the sex wrong,.... 
maybe yet another small egg to come ? LOL

(If so, at least you wonthave to worry about oops babies LOL)


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Forgot to say, Poppy is very clever because where ever she is in the house if she wants the blinds closed she goes over to them pulls the cord a couple of times until they close then she seems happy. We thought she was just playing at 1st until we opened them and she closed them again. Pip is the 1st pic with his blind eye he's sat on the eggs and the second pic is poppy she's having a break from egg sitting. The 3rd pic I thing is self explanatory, lol.


----------



## Skyeking

She is cute, and spoiled rotten....I'm sure!


----------



## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> Forgot to say, Poppy is very clever because where ever she is in the house if she wants the blinds closed she goes over to them pulls the cord a couple of times until they close then she seems happy. We thought she was just playing at 1st until we opened them and she closed them again. Pip is the 1st pic with his blind eye he's sat on the eggs and the second pic is poppy she's having a break from egg sitting. The 3rd pic I thing is self explanatory, lol.


LOL, Ive got a multi-remote, Bouncer does that sort of thing with it at night whe hes out, Pecks it till it switches TV and Lights off then he goes to bed.

PS you might have taught Pip & Pop how to use the cotton buds to clean their eggs before a photograph


----------



## amyable

Great to see how they've filled out and looking really well.

Well, three eggs this time aye! Could be as Bob says, if you get a fourth in a day or two then they must both be laying, which is great really as they won't be fertile and no need to swap them.
I have a pair of hens that have four eggs each time and they both always lay at the same time so share sitting duties.

That's the first time I've seen cotton buds as nesting material. It's amazing how they adapt to what's available. 

Let us know if you get a fourth egg.

Thanks for the update

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

We haven't seen another egg yet but they have "disposed" of the other two the small one and one of the large ones. The small one was on the floor and it was broken and leaking the second one we can't find but it's definately not their. They have been having fights, which I had to split up yesterday because they were plucking feathers out of each other and really nasty pecking each other. Poppy is the more dominant one this time, I think they are her eggs.

Bye for now


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

They are_ sooo_ round! Lol! What have you been feeding them?!!

Pip & Pop are so cute. Lucky millionaires!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

No eggs now they pushed the last one out of the nest, they are back to "flirting" with each other, although they do still have fights which I have to split them up for 5 mins. Poppy seems a little on the thin side I can feel her chest bone, she eats plenty of food like peas, grit, seed, shortbread and drinks lots of water. Any suggestion's? does she need worming? if so what do I buy to worm her? Her droppings are always watery also.
Poppy is also the naughty one she has stripped alot of the wallpaper off around our landing window and aroung the skirting board's where she walks around on the floor. She pecks at the coving when she's on top of the wardrobe yet looks like butter wouldn't melt. LOL


----------



## amyable

Hi there,

Might be worth trying a wormer. Can get something like Harker-Verm on line.
I use Harker Mectin for treating lice, mites and worms if I get a new bird in.

I wonder why Poppy chews the paper. Maybe it's trying to get nesting material. I've found some of mine pulling at paper when I haven't given them twigs for nests.

Janet


----------



## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> Poppy is also the naughty one she has stripped alot of the wallpaper off around our landing window and aroung the skirting board's where she walks around on the floor. She pecks at the coving when she's on top of the wardrobe yet looks like butter wouldn't melt. LOL





amyable said:


> I wonder why Poppy chews the paper. Maybe it's trying to get nesting material. I've found some of mine pulling at paper when I haven't given them twigs for nests.
> 
> Janet



LOL, bouncer has this fascination for a sheet of A5 paper Ive taped over the printer (to protect it from their poops lol).
I keep having to replace it more often, not coz the poops, but coz he "nibbles it" right along the edge and removes a thin "slice" to give to Freckle.
Thye've got some shredded paper they use for a nest, but Bouncer likes to make his own lol


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Spoke to soon Pip started making a nest for poppy again today he raided my cotton wool buds again so I gave him shredded paper which he scattered everywhere, then he was finding feathers which had fallen out to put on top of poppy which was funny as she wasn't too pleased. Guess what I found when I came home from work??? yes an egg, just the one for now. Here we go again.


----------



## amyable

Tashy/Rob said:


> Guess what I found when I came home from work??? yes an egg, just the one for now. Here we go again.


Lol.  yes they just keep at it.... number two in a couple of days and that'll keep them out of mischief for another three weeks hopefully!!!!

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Ok, further news, we have another visitor, Snowflake we've called him/her, a very friendly, very very handsome pidge, not hand shy at all (look how close Tashy got with her phone camera!), the pics below shows her (lets stay with 'her' for now) in all her glory.

Chilling earlier today:









Proud stance? or...saying either "ooh what's that?" or "good side, get my good side"









it's the second pic which has prompted me to put an entry on here, firstly, that proud stance, whenever Snowflake (my name for her) visits us, which is very often, she always stands proud, plus, I think she's got an usual shape to her, but the most attractive thing to me.....she's got almost black eyes, her vision is fine, and she's loving the 'resting mix' she's getting served to her.

I'm going try and catch her for 2 reasons, firstly, pic 2 shows that she's got something amiss with her neck, I got very close to her on Sunday and it's got two bald patches, I'm concerned about possible injuries, mainly because when the Hardcore 20 (yes it used to be 12) join HER in HER new garden, which she's claimed, they shun her, so I'm wondering if one of them has had a pop at her, and the second reason, we, in Teesside, the Northeast region of the UK to our overseas folk, are now under a severe weather alert, with an approximated 4 weeks of heavy rain set to fall in 48 hours. This is a worry because Snowflake, it's a lovely catchy name I think, don't you?, is living on a roof somewhere in our immediate vicinity, and I'd be restless knowing she's out in it, the hardcore 20 are ferals and natural survivors, I know in my heart Snowflake was probably someones pet. And she may not survive the deluge that's approaching.

So, does anyone recognise the breed that Snowflake may, or may not be? I'm 100% sure that Handsome Devil ISN'T a registered breed!!

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated as usual, and NO Amyable, you simple cannot have her!!

All the best,

Rob, Tashy, Mo, Peanut, Pip n Pop.......and Snowflake!

PS: An amusing part to this, Tash just rang me to tell me that Pip is at the window, bowing, roo-cooing and tapping at the glass to attract Snowflakes attention, and Poppy is giving it the "jealous partner" act...and isn't happy with Pip at all, and in pidgie-speak is no doubt yelling "get back here now.....or else me and you are through".....Snowflake isn't interested at all! Poor Pip (when Poppy gets her claws on him)!!


----------



## Quazar

WOW, that is a really nice bird.
Even by uk standards that does not look like a common feral.
Im not that up on breeds, but from its stance I'd say it was some kind of pouter. (unless you caught it doing a mating ritual lol)


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Quazar said:


> (unless you caught it doing a mating ritual lol)


But....TASH took the photo!!! 

Fortunately, Snowflake ALWAYS struts that way!


----------



## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> ......and the second reason, we, in Teesside, the Northeast region of the UK to our overseas folk, are now under a severe weather alert, with an approximated 4 weeks of heavy rain set to fall in 48 hours. .....


You mean Northeast region of ENGLAND, you lot always forget about us SCOTS
...maybe its time we did have devolution lol. 

Btw, our weather forecast for the next few days is also rain...rain....rain...and more rain.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Quazar said:


> You mean Northeast region of ENGLAND, you lot always forget about us SCOTS
> ...maybe its time we did have devolution lol.
> 
> Btw, our weather forecast for the next few days is also rain...rain....rain...and more rain.


England yes. And isn't rain a godsend? it washes the snow away up there...


----------



## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> England yes. And isn't rain a godsend? it washes the snow away up there...


Yep, And the main eastcoast rail link to.....England lol
Better catch that bird quick before it washes snowflake away


----------



## whytwings

It looks like it could be an English Pouter .........In anycase , he probably needs a home where he can be safe and pampered , so best you send him to me .......lol 

seriously ..........do try and catch him and offer him a home if you can't find the owner .


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Snowflake is GORGEOUS!!! Please do keep her!! What a beauty! I doubt she's a feral! She's one heck of a Princess feral!

Please tell Pip that he'd better be faithful to Pop. That's what pigeons are supposed to be, lol! Looks like you might have to find a partner for Snowy in future! How exciting, the coop is getting bigger!!! hehehehe....

Good luck!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I love your story and your wicked humor too! How's that bath situation working for you these days, hehehehe? Any update on SnowFlake? Has Poppy's vision improved more? I'll be looking forward to your future updates.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Kiko&Kalani said:


> I love your story and your wicked humor too! How's that bath situation working for you these days, hehehehe? Any update on SnowFlake? Has Poppy's vision improved more? I'll be looking forward to your future updates.


Bath situation?

Well, I try and have one every day, if not I'll try and shower, otherwise I'll start to smell like a warm horse, or a freshly opened can of vegetable soup!

Ohhhh, maybe you mean Pip's bath situation and him/her joining us when we're in it!!! Doesn't happen anymore, Poppy is jealous you see. Recently, Pip had 'snuck' away, was just entering the bathroom while I was in the bath, when a very angry 'roo-coooooooooo' came from their room.....Pip fled the scene and went to Poppy.

And although I don't do pidgie-speak, I know trouble when I hear it!

Bloody females, can't live with em, can't shoot em!

Oh ooooer, guess who's left himself wide open for trouble there!!

Rob


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL  Sounds like Poppy and my Kalani read the same book. I really feel sorry for Kiko when she gets in a mood sometimes. Once he had the gall to "talk" back to her... He came out of that encounter with a limp for about 3 to 4 days. 

What ever happened with SnowFlake?


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Kiko&Kalani said:


> LOL  Sounds like Poppy and my Kalani read the same book. I really feel sorry for Kiko when she gets in a mood sometimes. Once he had the gall to "talk" back to her... He came out of that encounter with a limp for about 3 to 4 days.
> 
> What ever happened with SnowFlake?


Snowflake has mixed in with our regulars that come to feed in the garden they are their from about 5am on a morning, she seems quite happy with them now, she was quite wary of them before.
As for pippa he tried to escape yesterday through a window that was slightly ajar. He's sat their on the window sill plenty of times before, talking to the other pigies on the roof next door, but yesterday he tried to get out the window and ended up scraping the skin on his leg. He now stands on one leg and limps a bit (we bathed it for him so it's probably sore). 
As for poppy she is still sat on her two eggs and only comes off them when she thinks we are not around. We bought her some hay and her and pip have made a lovely nest out of hay, feathers and cotton wool buds.
What is it with animals that you rescue one and it starts you on a journey to rescue them all? It's probably something that never occured to you before but when it happens they tug on your heart and become part of your family.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Well today pip surprised us again he hasn't been in our bath for ages as he has his own in his bedroom, I put fresh warm water in everyday for both of them to have a bath if they choose to. Whilst running a bath tonight we hear wings so we goes upstairs to find pip strutting into the bathroom, he runs back out when he hears us and goes back in his bedrrom so we closed the door. He decides to try his own bath 1st, so he lays in it for a bit whilst looking out the window. I get in my bath and I hear him flying to the bedroom door then on to the landing then into the bathroom he walks, up on to the toilet lid, onto the side of the bath then "SPLASH" he's in. I had to grab him beacuse obviously it's deep I try to get him out but he's not having any of it he jumps back in and sits on my hand for about 5 mins splashing about. I put him back on the side of the bath he jumped on the floor and rob grabbed him with a towel to dry him off abit he then sat on rob's shoulder for abit then pooped on him and went back to his bedroom.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

After weeks of rob telling me pip & pop are both female guess what I saw this morning??? A squab, a tiny yellow feathery baby . They are both now on the nest huddled together with the baby between them. So what happens now? They seem to be keeping it warm and it is breathing and wriggling. They are both eating and drinking well, they have squeaker mix, peas and grit, is their anything else I should be giving them as I don't know who's male and who's female?


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Oh my, you have had an exciting couple days! Congrats on becoming a GrandPigiMa. Did you notice, about 3 weeks ago (this is the time they would have been mating to produce/fertilize the egg), one of the pijis mounting on top of the other's back and swishing its tail back and forth? The one on the bottom would be the female/the one on top the male. My female is the one that spends the most time in her nest when she has an egg. 

Would love to see pics!!!! 

Good luck!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Oh my, you have had an exciting couple days! Congrats on becoming a GrandPigiMa. Did you notice, about 3 weeks ago (this is the time they would have been mating to produce/fertilize the egg), one of the pijis mounting on top of the other's back and swishing its tail back and forth? The one on the bottom would be the female/the one on top the male. My female is the one that spends the most time in her nest when she has an egg.
> 
> Would love to see pics!!!!
> 
> Good luck!


Hi, it's Rob...

Well, if you'd have read further back to earlier threads, you'll have read that Pip and Pop, how can I put this......swapped places. Therefore each was on the bottom.

We now know Poppy is female, she's fiercely protective over her new offspring!!

Below is the only pic Tash obtained before fleeing for her life!!

Baby Pip-n-Pop!









More to follow!!

Rob & everyone else here!!


----------



## amyable

Oh my!! They caught you out. 

They know how to get one past you. Congrats to you all and I bet you'll enjoy watching this little one grow. Does that mean the other egg in the picture might be hatching aswell?
Well just leave it up to them, they seem to know how to look after babies without reading lots of books like us humans.
If by any chance you think the babies aren't thriving or being fed then you can step in but I don't expect that's going to happen as Pip & Pop have a good diet and a nice warm home to bring these darlings up in.

Photos of progress are essential. 

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

We are now proud grand-pigie-parents to squabs.
The last pic is of proud mammy poppy she has just started feeding them and they have their eyes open and the bigger (eldest) one is on it's feet.


----------



## Quazar

Aww, cute, and some nice games to keep them occupied when they are a bit older


----------



## amyable

Gorgeous babies... just love 'em!

Many congrats to Ma & Pa and Grand Ma & Pa too.


----------



## Skyeking

*what adorable babies! congratulations!*


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Skyeking said:


> *what adorable babies! congratulations!*


Look at us now.........


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Tashy/Rob said:


> Look at us now.........


Look at us aren't we cute.


----------



## amyable

Looking great!!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Looking great!!


We are growing up so fast our grand-pigie-parents can't believe it. Our parents make sure we are fed and no harm comes to us. We can stand up and walk about and stretch our wings, it won't be long before we are causing trouble like our parents. I can here Tashy and Rob saying where's this bit of wallpaper come from because our parents keep pulling it off the walls.


----------



## amyable

Good grief! Growing fast.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Sooooooo cute!! OMG, before we know it, your house will turn into a giant circus! Good luck! The babies are a delight!


----------



## pirab buk

*beautiful babies~*

Oh this is happy news to see though beautiful, happy and well loved birds!
Some of the posts bum me out with so many sad stories.
Keep us posted. I am thrilled to hear such happy news!


----------



## Tashy/Rob

HELP AND ADVICE NEEDED!!

Hi all, Rob here, first off let me tell you that Pippa, Poppy and the un-named squab twins are doing fine, Pip is an absolutely fantastic dad.

Snowflake has unfortunately disappeared!

Now to the help part........early last Saturday Tash asked me to come to the garden to see a pigeon, just sat there, I went out and the pigeon walked away, I followed and it tried to fly, only managed a few feet, crash-landed, then turned and tried again, but clearly couldn't fly, she (let's stick with she) just managed to clear the top of the fence......then I heard her toppling through the shrubbery in the neighbours garden.

Out came the step ladders, and I peered over, and there in the corner was the pidgie! Next, out came my fishing landing net, and a broomshank to clear the undergrowth.....10-15 minutes gentle coaxing, and 'Netty' came to us (named after her rescue method.......it might change):

Our 'Netty'









So the first step was to secure her, then hydrate with warm electrolyte boiled-then-cooled water, she didn't drink until I dipped her beak in, and then she took a lot of water. Second, Harka-mectin dripped onto the back of her neck to rid her of fleas, ticks, lice and more importantly, worms. Third, warmth, nice thick white fluffy undersheet, hot water bottle bought and used later, thick towel over the front of the box, and then peace and quiet. She was very lethargic and slept almost immediately. 

We didn't feed her straight away on advice from the very rich lady on here (you know who you are), but kept the hydration going, she hasn't got too good an aim on her water tub either. We did start her 0.1ml of Baytril though as we'd run out of Flagyl, Netty is a mere 200g in weight. So then on Sunday, we found out she's very very friendly, not hand shy at all, and looked like she enjoyed being stroked, that's when we felt a hardish lump just to one side of her crop. She appears to do be doing better though, more alert, so alert in fact that that was when she spotted a tub of 'squeaker mix' and went at it, and that's when the worry started, she wasn't aiming too well at the seeds, small and larger ones, and when she did, she shook her head quite violently throwing some seeds, eating others....see below:

http://s1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj482/stockton-rob-videos-only/?action=view&current=4675c4ef.mp4

Our first thoughts?, and yours too...........PMV yeah?

Hence this thread, I've done it on here so you lot know who we are. So allow me to impart some details on our newest 'kid'....

She sleeps a lot, she can be walking around and suddenly head to her box, puff up (not massively) and fall asleep, she'll sleep a while, then have another wander. She was sleeping with one leg up last night.

She has no inclination to fly.
Her left eye is closed a quite a bit now, even when alert, yet no obvious injury there, or anywhere to be honest.
She can walk ok, no balance issues.
Her first poop was kind of green and looked fizzy (starvation) and after lots of water, a few seeds, and crushed biscuits, which she eats ok, her poops have solidified quite a lot, and well, the pic below shows her poop, bad pic sorry:

Poop, of the green variety:









On the sleep issue, she puffs up and her head is upright, earlier Tash called me to tell me Netty (such a bad name) had fallen asleep and her head had lolled onto her right wing.....stargazing?

She still seems alert though, and get this, last night, Netty is in her box preening (good sign?), so Tash starts talking to her, Netty walks so far over to Tash, who reaches down and wiggles her fingers, Netty comes straight over and very affectionately nuzzles her fingers!!!! She also has no issues with me picking her up, and lets me stroke her back.

Which leads me to believe she's a 'domestic' that's either got out or been released for whatever reason, soft release perhaps.

So, please, watch the video, and should you have any help and advice to help our newest addition, please please, don't hesitate.

Oh and she's been isolated, we follow the procedures for handwashing etc so as to not infect Pip and his family. Netty will no doubt dwell with us now, but our first concern is to get her better!!

Thanks in advance from us lot here!

Rob.

EDIT: Netty might not be getting enough food, therefore we are contemplating hand/syringe feeding....help, tips and advice please!

I feel like a new dad.........


----------



## pirab buk

I am no vet but green poops, to me, indicate a bacterial infection.


----------



## Quazar

Rob, flicking through seeds is quite common, probably looking for ones they recognise & like. I had to get a different brand recently and most of my rescues did just that.
The violent shaking of the head is more to suggest it has problems swallowing the seeds rather than PMV, maybe canker ? Have you checked its mouth & throat ? (Altough canker could still be present even though it looks clear)
This could also be the reason its more comfortable to rest with its head to the side.
Foot up when sleeping is normal as most birds roost this way, and it is also an indication that whatever is wrong is not in a such a greatly advanced state that it is affecting balance (although that can change very quickly).
If its not managing to swallow a lot of seeds, I would try bottle or syringe feeding to get more food into it, and definately treat for canker as a start.
Hopefully others will chime in with their views.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Cheers Bob, She's on Baytril at the moment, and Amyable has dispatched a batch of Flagyl as I'm having problems acquiring some, we're away from Thursday till late saturday, then we'll set her off on it. Should I cease the Baytril when we do?, oh and should we rename her? Netty!! Slang for toilet isn't it?

Come on guys.......


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

I like the name Netty though... never heard of it being a toilet slang...? 

Thanks for caring for her. She's so lucky to have met The Grandpa/Grandma combo. _hehe_. Please do isolate her from the New parents and their babies though... As the babies are fragile, we don't want them to catch anything!

I'm not sure what to advice, I'm here as the cheerleader. Maybe the experts would chime in, as Bob and Amyable already have. Good luck with her. She's already in good hands, lucky fella!


----------



## amyable

I keep looking at the video and she's definitely swiping at the seeds. Is she getting many down her throat. I'd say it would help to hand feed her anyway. Defrosted peas are the best option as she'll get fluids from them as well.
Have you had a chance to look closer at the lump on her chest.
Just wondering if it's internal as opposed to a wound.

She certainly looks quite strong considering and standing firm.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi Janet,

The lump is internal yes. 

Quick question, is it normal for a pidge to stay asleep if you 'jiggle it's beak? I just did, quite a bit, and she never woke up. She's very lethargic now, took a bit of water, but all she wants to do is sleep.

Gonna make an elongated nest by rolling some towels, and put the hot water bottle at one end. She can find the heat herself I assume.

Am worried.

Rob.

EDIT: She just did, well, don't know if it was a poop, was more an almost clear jet of fluid with a white streak through it. Really worried now!


----------



## amyable

Hi,

Have you hand fed her any food today? Maybe if she's just had the odd few seeds she's managed to get in her mouth, she might well need some more nutrition.
Do you have any Glucose. Maybe give her some re-hydration fluids with sugar or glucose with a pinch of salt to make sure she's hydrated and then let her rest in her towel nest. (That's a nice idea as she'll feel secure a comfortable).

SHe's obviously a very sick bird but you are doing all the right things.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hello Janet,

I went out last night to buy a large syringe, a hand blender (for the thawed peas...yes I know....spoilt) and a smaller hot water bottle as I'm contemplating a 'Bob Quazer Sick Bed' (patent pending). We tried hand feeding her through the syringe with liquidized petit pois no less, but she clamped her beak tight closed, so we gave up as we didn't want to stress her out, and I'll go and get some glucose powder, and maybe vitamin supplements later tomorrow.

Before bed we gave her 0.1ml of Baytril. She survived the night thank god, sort of bright eyed at 4:15am when I offered her some water, which she seems to put her whole face into. I refilled the still warm hot water bottle, put it under the fluffy underblanket, picked her up and set her down on it, she felt the heat and settled. She doesn't hunker dow or lay down though, she always sleeps standing, and last night, we've kind of questioned her sight too. We've also, well I haven't, Tash might have, never seen her drink unassisted, we always seem to have to put the drink tub literally under her beak, which is quite dinky too!

And she has really small eyes! Adds to her cuteness, as does falling into an apparent deeper sleep if we stroke her from neck right down to her wing tips! And during these deeper sleeps, she shakes her head an inch or so either way.

She's clearly eaten quite a lot of crushed biscuits during the night, yes, crushed biscuits, again, spoilt, she's spilt some too by the looks af it, and I'm not 100% but there looked like one or two more solid poops there, which incidentally look like they're darkening from green to another colour (is this a good sign?).

So any more help will be greatly appreciated, next step may be to find a pigeon friendly, non "euthanasia is the best thing" avian vet. Netty will be given every chance.

Another question, which I'm sure I've asked before............Why do they affect us so, make us worry?

Thanks in Advance.

Rob, Tashy and the 'kids'


----------



## amyable

Morning Rob,

Any new day is always a blessing when you wake up and they're still with you. It won't be an overnight recovery and I know it does take it out of you wondering if you're doing the right thing and looking at them every moment hoping to see some sort of improvement.
Yeah, they do get to you, it's those little eyes...

I just found your text re- Thursday/Saturday. Will email you as you know I'm crap at texting. It's the arthritic fingers that get in the way!!
I was thinking that if I do see you maybe I can show you how to crop feed Netty. That's an easy quick way to get her fed once you know how and will make it less stressful for her.

Poops sound a better colour. Sometimes green poops aren't bad it depends on what they're eating and so the biscuits are probably what's coming out now!
There are emergency feeds that are designed to give them all the nutrition they need while sick. I think I still have some so can give you that as she needs to have these nutrients as well.
Don't know about her eyes. I guess time will tell with those too.
I don't know if you've tried it but I find hand feeding peas one at a time doesn't seem to stress them out too much. The syringe can feel quite invasive to them so maybe that's why she didn't take to that.

Will email shortly.

Janet


----------



## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Will email you as you know I'm crap at texting. It's the arthritic fingers that get in the way!!


You have a butler, housemaids and 5 gardeners......


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Netty looks SO CUTE while sleeping!! Look at that. Heart melting cuteness! I hope all goes well with her. So lucky to have Janet close by!

Your sense of humour is refreshing. Totally love it! _"Bob Quazer Sick Bed"_ LOL!! You should write a comic book! Bestseller dude!

All the best for Nets & the tiny tots. Keep the updates coming!


----------



## amyable

Well looks like Netty's got full blown PMV now.
Rob brought her down to me today for three days while they're away and she's not only got PMV but canker too.
Poor little soul is so thin but still trying hard to get around inbetween her deep sleeps so she's certainly got fight in her and hopefully we can pull her through.

Total dedication from Rob & Tash as they actually live over three hours drive from me but drove her here so she could be cared for while they're away. 
Amazing folks!

Janet


----------



## Quazar

amyable said:


> Well looks like Netty's got full blown PMV now.
> Rob brought her down to me today for three days while they're away and she's not only got PMV but canker too.
> Poor little soul is so thin but still trying hard to get around inbetween her deep sleeps so she's certainly got fight in her and hopefully we can pull her through.
> 
> Total dedication from Rob & Tash as they actually live over three hours drive from me but drove her here so she could be cared for while they're away.
> Amazing folks!
> 
> Janet


I agree, but also you to Janet, for being there and able to help


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Quazar said:


> I agree, but also you to Janet, for being there and able to help


I couldn't agree more...


----------



## Tashy/Rob

**UPDATE**

Sadly, even with Amyable's relentless care and attention, our little Netty passed away on Sunday, although we (Tash and myself) only had her for 4 days, we fell for her, she left a lasting impression on us both. More so on Janet, who devoted so much time to her.

We shed our tears.

"fly high with our love little one"


----------



## Skyeking

*Rest in Peace, Netty. *


----------



## pirab buk

Oh no...how sad...


----------



## Tashy/Rob

pirab buk said:


> Oh no...how sad...


Heartbreaking......


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

My greatest condolences. She must've been really unwell. But to know that she died in kind hands was something that most other birds would be envious of. Thank you for all that you done for her. 

Hope the mommy & daddy & twins are good and well. Take care!


----------



## Quazar

That is really sad news 
It is so easy to get attatched to them, even in such a short time.
At least her last couple of weeks were spent comfortable and safe with all your help.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Update time!!

We lost our little Netty as you know, but on a lighter note, Pip and Pop have given us TWO more squabs!!!

Plus, tonight (02 Aug 2012) we had to check Google Earth to see if there's a sign on our roof saying "poorly pigeons are welcome here".......as a flightless pidge decided to make Tash chase him/her and be easily caught!!

He/she seems ok, just can't fly! Or is maybe too tired to try!

And she (we'll keep it at she) is now languishing on a soft fluffy towel, complete with under-bum heating via a hot water bottle. She's ate and drank, we checked her over and she does seem to outwardly appear ok.

She just can't fly!!!

Will give more updates after her first night at ours!!

Rob, Tash and the 'family'

Further Update

Released the new little pidge this morning, she flew straight up and rejoined the 'hardcore 1,000,000' that come to be fed every day, we did apply some Harka-Mectin last night so she can rid herself of fleas, and more importantly, worms.

She must have been exhausted perhaps, but she's well fed and watered now.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

As everyone knows we have Pip & Poppy (mam & dad) we have Junior & Titch (the kids) and we now also have two nameless squabs. My question is, is it normal for Pip to be very dominant? he constantly fights Poppy making her life a misery he pulls feathers out of her and makes her move off every place she is. He won't let her near the squabs to feed them although he is a brilliant dad and feeds them himself. Titch & Junior are now doing the same if she comes near them they peck her and make her move away from them. We often give Pip a timeout so Poppy can feed the squabs and be near them, which drives him mad and he stomps up and down outside the door. Poppy often sleeps on the curtain pole now as this is the only place she can be away from him. Titch & Junior are fine when Pip isn't their & occasionally Pip will let Poppy sleep with the Squabs but this is very rare. We are building an outside loft to put them all in so hope this will make a difference. Also does anyone know if pigeon's will mate with their off spring or if the kids will mate with each other?


----------



## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> Hi All,
> 
> As everyone knows we have Pip & Poppy (mam & dad) we have Junior & Titch (the kids) and we now also have two nameless squabs. My question is, is it normal for Pip to be very dominant? he constantly fights Poppy making her life a misery he pulls feathers out of her and makes her move off every place she is. He won't let her near the squabs to feed them although he is a brilliant dad and feeds them himself. Titch & Junior are now doing the same if she comes near them they peck her and make her move away from them. We often give Pip a timeout so Poppy can feed the squabs and be near them, which drives him mad and he stomps up and down outside the door. Poppy often sleeps on the curtain pole now as this is the only place she can be away from him. Titch & Junior are fine when Pip isn't their & occasionally Pip will let Poppy sleep with the Squabs but this is very rare. We are building an outside loft to put them all in so hope this will make a difference. Also does anyone know if pigeon's will mate with their off spring or if the kids will mate with each other?


Join the club lol
Bouncer & freckles 1st clutch turned out duds, but their 2nd clutch hatched a few days ago. (pigeon hotel - new arrival) andthey are behaving exactly the same.
Bouncer forces his way in to sit on them & feed them and keeps freckle out.
Even had to remove chicks for their own safety for a bit as they were full scale fighting, I swear if I didnt know freckle had laid the eggs that it was like two cocks fighting over territory.
When they were sitting eggs, both would be fine and change over easilly.
Bouncer will eventually let freckle in, and leaves her for about 12hrs then forcibly removes her.
Freckle then just sits in the box with wing twitching and watches helplessly.
Bouncer although protective, lets me look at the chicks & lets me hand feed him treats on the nest, where as Freckle is VERY protective and wont let me near at all, but when off nest will annoy the hell out of me till she gets some lol.


----------



## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

It is 22.05 29/09/12 and we are really worried about one of our squabs, she/he isn't looking well, quite lathargic and was a bit cold when we checked in on her/him this afternoon. We brought it down stairs with us as Pip is still fighting with Poppy that we have to seperate them daily. Poppy is still feeding the squabs when we leave them with her, but won't when Pip is around as he won't let her. Anyway we had brought it downstairs with us and tried to feed it peas (approx 15) as it's crop was completely empty and it kept gaping, it seemed fine for about an hour and fell asleep on me with a blanket over it to warm it up. Then it started to be sick bringing up anything it had ate peas, seed etc and this smelt really bad. It has since been sick three more times and brought all the peas back up then falls back asleep again. It seems quite scared of Pip and hides from him when he flies about although he hasn't hurt it and he does keep an eye on it. This squab is half the size of the other one and they were both born on the same day, this one also fends for itself alot finding seed or biscuit to eat.

Please help with any advice


----------



## amyable

Hi there,

have you got any Apple Cider Vinegar or Bicarb of soda.
May be an idea to give the crop a rest and try and make sure nothings stuck in there going sour. They tend to not to digest food too well when cold so it may have got cold after being fed and possibly it's not going through.

If you have either mix a bit up with warm water and try and get it to drink some. I don't know if you're able to syringe it some, obviously being careful not to get it in it's airways though if it won't drink.
Alternatively dribble some along the edge of it's beak so it sips it in if you're unsure about syringing.
It might help to get the crop moving and get it to empty before trying to feed again tomorrow.
Make sure the bird is kept warm over night.
Good luck and let us know how he is tomorrow.

Janet


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## Tashy/Rob

Well I'm glad to say little squab lasted the night even though we didn,t think she was going to because at times she was very shallow breathing, She slept in a box with a hot water bottle and today we gave her some bicarb with water to wash her crop out. We left her sleep for a couple of hours then we tried feeding her with a syringe and some biscuit in warm water she had quite a bit then fell back asleep on me. Then approx two hours later she woke up started putting her beak between my fingers and trying to feed she was flapping her wings and squeaking. Then I fed her again this time biscuit and rusk mixed with warm water she loved it & couldn't get enough I think by the end of it we were probably wearing more of it . We tried feeding the other squab also but he's more into feeding himself. Well since feeding her she has been preening herself and sitting with her brother so she seems OK. I think it could well have been very hungry. We did try putting her with Pip then Poppy separately to see if they would feed her but they just ignored her even though she was squeaking right in their faces. So it looks like we will have to bring her up ourselves.
I will let you know what happens.


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## amyable

That's relief. She just wanted some one to one attention!
Hope she carries on improving now. 

Keep us posted

Janet


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## Miss-Sassypants

Aww... good luck with the babies, Rob & Tash.

Pip & Pop needs to go to the same Parenting Anonymous Group as Bouncer & Freckle. Maybe they are going through a divorce - and the squabs are in the middle of the squabble? Poor little babies. Thank goodness for the humans!

Have you bought some Kaytee Exact? That's the best feed for them at this growing age, instead of biscuits and hot chocolate (jk - that one, you can pass to me  )

Can we see pics of the used-to-be-happy-family? We do like visuals of Junior & Titch, and the arguing parents (to see if they've lost weight since their last happy pictures)... and also photos of the abandoned squabs would be nice too.

Do tell the babies we are rooting for them. If mom & pop don't love them, we do - they have fans across the globe! All the best! Do keep the updates coming!


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## Quazar

I see from another post you have named one of the new squabs Fraggle


Tashy/Rob said:


> .....
> Tash is hand rearing two squabs at the minute, seeing as Pip is wanting to firkytoodle with Poppy (so their attention is elsewhere), one has been named Fraggle, the other one is still nameless as we can't decide.


maybe its to obvious, but you could call the other one Rockie 

or fill in the questionaire here on behalf of the unnamed on


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## Tashy/Rob

Hello Bob,

Would you believe I opted for Rocky, but Tash didn't approve (women eh?), and because the un-named squab is cute and cuddly, and now loves to roost on a soft warm towel on my lap and be stroked, which gives me the impression of a Bond villian, but with a pidgie and not a cat, we've opted for Gizmo, due to the cuddly cuteness.

We'll post some pics at a later date. So, we have Pip, Poppy, Junior, Titch, Fraggle and Gizmo. Not forgeting Mo and Peanut, our ever loyal, faithful and loving mutts!!

Oh, Tash informed me of the complete and utter fearless approch of Gizmo, who decided to have walk around the living room.......OVER Mo's back! Mo just simply looked up and sorta had a "whatever" look on her face, then put her head back down for a snooze!!!

How cheekily blatant of our 'Gizzy' eh?

Rob, Tash and the menagerie!


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## Quazar

Gizmo !!!! 
Whatever you do, dont let it get wet


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## Tashy/Rob

Ok you lot,

UPDATE TIME!!!! It's Rob, and I'm here with a few pics of our Fraggle (Fraggsie) and Gizmo (Gizzy), and and I'm in the pics too, so no comments about my chins (no 'more Chins than a Chinese phone book' jokes please) or my beer belly!

Cuddles with Dad, Fraggsies on the right, Gizzy on the left:










Would you believe they hatched within hours of each other, the size difference, Fraggle is on the left, tiny little fella:










Gizzy sound asleep while being cuddled (yes cuddled):










Gizzy asleep, Fraggsie claiming heat from one of my chins:










Sorry about the quality, we used an iPhone, and the lighting was bad, we didn't want the flash to scare them.

We took some of your advice, and bought some Kaytee Extreme hand rear stuff, and guess what......they HATE it, normally Fraggle will squeak like crazy and flutters his wings maniacally, he doesn't with the Extreme, he sorta goes "oi where's the other food?" 

So we changed back to biscuit and rusk mashed in warm water, and they both love it, as Gizmo won't even touch the Extreme mix!

Spoilt Pidgies or what!!

Who couldn't love em when they're this cute 'n' cuddlesome though?

Rob, Tash and the menagerie.


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## amyable

Too cute......

Pidgies aren't bad either!!


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## Tashy/Rob

amyable said:


> Too cute......
> 
> Pidgies aren't bad either!!


Excuse me???


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## Miss-Sassypants

Awww... the photos are melting cuteness!! Love love LOVE the pics!! Thank you for sharing..

Such lucky pigeons! It shows how much you love them. The kiddos look soooo cute!!

What is Kaytee Extreme? The good one for baby birds is called Kaytee 'Exact'. I wonder if that was why the babies hated them? Lol...


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## Tashy/Rob

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Awww... the photos are melting cuteness!! Love love LOVE the pics!! Thank you for sharing..
> 
> Such lucky pigeons! It shows how much you love them. The kiddos look soooo cute!!
> 
> What is Kaytee Extreme? The good one for baby birds is called Kaytee 'Exact'. I wonder if that was why the babies hated them? Lol...


Yeah that stuff!! (I meant)

They still hate it. 

But still love their cuddles!

Is it wrong to cuddle them?


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Yesterday I went into the bedroom as I do every morning to open curtains change water & feed, clean up etc and couldn't see any pigies, then from under the tv stand appeared Pip, Junior and Titch no Poppy. Had a bit of a look about and eventually found her trapped behind the stand, got her out and let her go she tried to fly but fell to the ground. So yesterday I took her out and gave her some peace and quiet and rest from the others she was eating and drinking well so thought she might just need some rest. Later in the day I let Pip into see her as he was going mad not being able to find her despite their fighting lately he has let her sleep with him. I have a cat carrier that she was laid in and he went to see her and all seemed fine until he started really pecking at her so I took him out and Poppy stood their shocked as she had just laid an egg the third one this week, she has had two normal size ones and one really small one. All three of the eggs were discarded by them (not surprising really with four kids already). Last night she managed to climb the stairs by jumping and a little wing flap to get her up to the bedroom where Pip was waiting for her, she hid straight away and he went and laid with her. Today she still cannot fly I have checked her wings over and they are both fine, she is eating and drinking etc. So not sure what to do. We have kept fraggle and gizzy (gizmo) away from the others as too much fighting was going on so they were scared of the others. They mingle daily for a couple of minutes but we keep them apart the rest of the time as fraggle is tiny compared to the others and he's scared of them. Although both of them feed themselves seed and crushed digestives we are worried fraggle isn't gaining enough weight so we also help with feeding him. The Kaytee Exact was a waste of money as he just sprays it every where and refuses to eat it I don't want to force him as he will become afraid of me. Any advice on anything else to feed him to gain him some weight, I have tried peas he won't eat them either.


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## Quazar

You could try some porridge, ive used this with some youngsters and also mashed in some peas with it, or even crumble an oatcake into hot water, mix till it goes mushy & milky & starts to thicken a bit then let it cool.
Not really had any refuse it, some a bit fussy at first, but once they got the taste there was no stopping them. 
When I first found Cheeky, everytime I lifted the bottle he was wanting into it, even when he grew up & I was feeding others lol.


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## Tashy/Rob

Further update on our Fraggsie & Gizzy:

What is going on? It's Rob. Myeself and the lovely Tash are in a bit of a confused state, ok picture the scene, it's Friday night (or was it Saturday?....Rum is evil), and we're watching the TV, Fraggsie And Gizzy are mooching about, later, during the more popular soaps, Fraggsie joins us on the settee, sofa, couch whatever, anyways, I'm eating Bacon Streaks, to the UK followers, they're like Frazzles......anyways, I'm eating away, and young Fraggsie is nestled between us, and a small piece of the aforemantioned crisp (corn based chips to out neighbours across the pond) fell away, and Fraggsie ate it, then jumped up and went berserko, flapping and squeaking like crazy......which attracted Gizzy, so, I tried him with a small piece.....they both went off the rails.

So I (probably wrongly) crushed a few up and fed them, mainly because the flappy squeaking was cutting into Tash's prime Eastenders time.

And they devoured them, I lifted the small bowl to shake the bits around, and as I moved the bowl away, they again went psycho!! So, with Bob-Quazar Hotelier extraordinaires pidgies like minced meat, and our liking bacon flavoured corn snacks....are we in any danger of developing cannibal carnivore pidgies!!!

Anyone explain their love of the crisps then?

Rob, tash and the zoo!


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## tjc1

Tashy/Rob said:


> Further update on our Fraggsie & Gizzy:
> 
> What is going on? It's Rob. Myeself and the lovely Tash are in a bit of a confused state, ok picture the scene, it's Friday night (or was it Saturday?....Rum is evil), and we're watching the TV, Fraggsie And Gizzy are mooching about, later, during the more popular soaps, Fraggsie joins us on the settee, sofa, couch whatever, anyways, I'm eating Bacon Streaks, to the UK followers, they're like Frazzles......anyways, I'm eating away, and young Fraggsie is nestled between us, and a small piece of the aforemantioned crisp (corn based chips to out neighbours across the pond) fell away, and Fraggsie ate it, then jumped up and went berserko, flapping and squeaking like crazy......which attracted Gizzy, so, I tried him with a small piece.....they both went off the rails.
> 
> So I (probably wrongly) crushed a few up and fed them, mainly because the flappy squeaking was cutting into Tash's prime Eastenders time.
> 
> And they devoured them, I lifted the small bowl to shake the bits around, and as I moved the bowl away, they again went psycho!! So, with Bob-Quazar Hotelier extraordinaires pidgies like minced meat, and our liking bacon flavoured corn snacks....are we in any danger of developing cannibal carnivore pidgies!!!
> 
> Anyone explain their love of the crisps then?
> 
> Rob, tash and the zoo!


Carnivore pidgies oh no , ZOMBIE PIGEONS, MAD PIGEON DISEASE. LOL


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## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> Further update on our Fraggsie & Gizzy:
> 
> What is going on? It's Rob. Myeself and the lovely Tash are in a bit of a confused state, ok picture the scene, it's Friday night (or was it Saturday?....Rum is evil), and we're watching the TV, Fraggsie And Gizzy are mooching about, later, during the more popular soaps, Fraggsie joins us on the settee, sofa, couch whatever, anyways, I'm eating Bacon Streaks, to the UK followers, they're like Frazzles......anyways, I'm eating away, and young Fraggsie is nestled between us, and a small piece of the aforemantioned crisp (corn based chips to out neighbours across the pond) fell away, and Fraggsie ate it, then jumped up and went berserko, flapping and squeaking like crazy......which attracted Gizzy, so, I tried him with a small piece.....they both went off the rails.
> 
> So I (probably wrongly) crushed a few up and fed them, mainly because the flappy squeaking was cutting into Tash's prime Eastenders time.
> 
> And they devoured them, I lifted the small bowl to shake the bits around, and as I moved the bowl away, they again went psycho!! So, with Bob-Quazar Hotelier extraordinaires pidgies like minced meat, and our liking bacon flavoured corn snacks....are we in any danger of developing cannibal carnivore pidgies!!!
> 
> Anyone explain their love of the crisps then?
> 
> Rob, tash and the zoo!


lol, they are characters. 
Freckle now seems to want everyting I'm eating, sits at the side of me and tries to sneak a peck of the plate no matter what it is. 
Funnily enough she also likes crisps now, after literaly pinching one of those "deep ridge" ones out my hand the other night.
Crisp wise I think it may be the concentration of salt they like although too much certainly isnt good for them (or us)


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## Miss-Sassypants

Gosh I love these updates. They are so adorable!!! More pictures please!


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## Tashy/Rob

Fraggsie says:

"look deep into my eyes, deeeeep into my eyes, you're feeling sleepy, your eyelids are getting heavy, you're feeling relaxed.........










.......1 2 3 aaaaand you're back in the room!


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## Quazar

Tashy/Rob said:


> Fraggsie says:
> 
> "look deep into my eyes, deeeeep into my eyes, you're feeling sleepy, your eyelids are getting heavy, you're feeling relaxed.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .......1 2 3 aaaaand you're back in the room!


Think hes doing a halloween trick or treat on you !!!

watch the eyes carefully ..... aaaaaaagh


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## Miss-Sassypants

Aww Fraggsie is a cutie!


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## Tashy/Rob

Tashy/Rob said:


> Any advice on anything else to feed him to gain him some weight......


Small Update

Hiya, it's Rob,

Fraggsie has gained his weight, and has grown all his feathers, and can fly, and still loves crisps, oh and has developed a taste for Cheese Doritos!

And there's been a slight shift in power!! Pip was the boss, but it appears that our Gizzy is starting to show his strength, he's had a few go's at Pip, who has now made peace with Poppy incidentally, and shockingly, Pip has backed down, well when I say backed down, it was more like being thrown down. Gizzy is becoming a big fella, or lady perhaps.

Also, Junior and Titch, we musn't forget those two hooligans, have moved out of Pip 'n' Pops room, and taken up residence in OUR room, they're still nervous and shy, but are getting used to us being in what is now THEIR room......of which they're both fiercly protective of, Poor Pip, he decided he'd have a look on the top of their wardrobe (not ours....theirs) and have a snoop around, unfortunately for Pip, Junior and Titch KRAY *both* waded in and very very unceremoniously threw Pip off, who was kinda shocked and landed in a heap in the corner, Tash rescued him!!.....Fraggsie and Gizzy have now pinched The Krays old roost.....you snooze you lose!

Another thing, I had a 'hug' from Poppy a wee while ago and her feathers are so soft, cuddly soft, is this normal? hugged Pip too, he's all sleek 'n' smooth, Fraggsie and Gizzy feel 'pigeony' but we can't get near The Krays!!

So there we have it, two hooligans, one battered husband, one ridiculously soft and cuddly mother-pidge, and two pigeony pidgies. Oh and of course two dogs who have both developed an irrational fear of pidgies. Incidentally, I'm ok, Tash is Tash, who I think has trained The Krays in short-temper tactics combined with a no-nonsense approach to, well......me!!

Enjoy the update! 

Rob and the menagerie!


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## Miss-Sassypants

LOL!! Thanks for the update! You're a great writer! Love the stories. Your house is really turning into a zoo isn't it?

More pics please


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## Callum Young

Wow...his right, you are quite a writer


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## Tashy/Rob

We have a problem at the moment Poppy can't fly again, when it happened the 1st time she just couldn't gain height so I had to hold her up so she could get on top of the wardrobe, but now she can't fly and she limps when she walks for a bit then lays down. We have isolated her from the others & she has been eating/drinking well especially pigeon grit. Poppy laid 2 eggs recently so don't know if that's something to do with it & when we go near her she normally pecks us not nasty just warning us but she doesn't even do that, any advice please.

Second thing is Junior recently started loosing his feathers on his head he had a mohican then gradually lost all of it to the point he is now bald on the top of his head but we have now noticed Titch is going the same way. They have both had harker mectin so can't be fleas and they regually take baths in clean water, so do pigeon's shed their feathers? they are over 4 months old.


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## Quazar

Keep an eye on Poppy, it is possible it is just because of the egg laying as that does sometimes affect them. Has she been getting any calcium supplements and vit D3 supplements ? That can sometimes help as egg laying does use up lots of calcium. (hence the reason folk not wanting to breed swap eggs for dummies rather than just remove them - lets the birds sit for the full term giving longer break between laying)

Yep, birds moult and usually around this time of year. Their new feathers normally come in quite quickly, but while they are losing the old ones they can look pretty disheveled lol.


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## amyable

Hi there,

I agree with Bob. Poppy sounds as if she's lacking in calcium possibly from egg laying.
I lost one bird earlier in the year from egg laying problems. The calcium supplement I used to get from the pigeon suppliers wasn't strong enough as it turned out.
I had two that would lose their ability to fly and would also limp badly but since being on Zocal they've had no problems ... that was until last week when I'd run out while waiting for an order to arrive. I saw Princess limping again for the first time since using this. Luckily she's recovered again.

AS far as the baldness goes, they do have a heavy moult usually about once a year and they lose most of their feathers around their heads. Tend to look pretty scarey!!
Hopefully this is the reason for the youngsters loss.

Enjoyed the last update by the way! 

Janet


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi all, Rob & Tash here,

Well, it appears that Junior & Titch Kray have been possessed by, well see for yourselves:

Beelzebub Kray....









And Alfalfa Kray....









They're moulting!!

How funny do they look? Bless them.

Rob, Tashy and the menagerie!!


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies I have been to my vets today and she was able to give me some vetark Zolcal D for Poppy only enough to get me through weekend as that is all she had left, but have ordered some as she also said you will notice a big difference in her. I have left Pip with the false eggs as we have been replacing them to keep him happy while she isn't very well, he finds it difficult to decide if he should stay on them or go in search of Poppy, so yesterday we brought them both downstairs along with nests and eggs and put them in the big dog crate wrapped the outside in blankets (except for front) and put them next to the radiator they were in heaven they never made a noise all day except for water and food. Bless them.


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## Miss-Sassypants

Aww... thanks for the photos! You have a handful there! They look like Halloween pidgies.

And yes, for Poppy, I think if she keeps laying, you'll have to up her intake of calcium on a regular basis. Do you keep a record of the egg laying? If you see a pattern of dates (like every 26th for example) the next time, 10 days BEFORE the 26th of each month, give her plenty of calcium in preparation for this egg-laying. All she needs is more grit, or maybe a calcium solution into her drink 2-3 times a day in that span of 10 days before the egg ordeal. And plenty of sun in that 10 days too!

If you buy a calcium supply for pigeons from a pigeon supply store (or online), I think it would be much more economical than going to the vet? And a bigger bottle can last you a while, without the need to go to the vet every month to get the supply.

Anyway, hope Pops feeling better now. The two of them are so comical and their antics are adorable. Keep updating us!!


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi all,

Little update for you lot.....

They're all fine!!, no issues, well ok there's a bit of scuffling that goes on occasionally, with Pip asserting his authority, apart from that, nothing much really.

I did have a really upsetting issue just before Christmas, I went into the kitchen and looked out to see feathers scattered around a large area under a bush, and I knew it was one of our outside flock that must have been taken by a sparrow hawk, We've had 4 or 5 taken by the same hawk (we think), so, with a heavy heart I got some latex gloves on, and went to remove the poor pidge, As I approached the bush, the hawk screeched and flew away, I looked down to see the pidge crawling under the bush, it's back ripped to shreds so badly I could see bones, internal organs etc.......but even worse, it was 'Chevron', one of our regulars who's been coming to us for quite a long time. We named him/her Chevron due to the white 'V' markings on his/her wings.

She/he was still alive, so I went upstairs and loaded my co2 multishot air pistol, and went back down, to see the hawk moving in, I loosed a shot off near it to scare it away, and away it went.

Chevron looked at me, and closed his/her eyes, I put the barrel on the top of his/her head, and pulled the trigger. I saw the chevron patterned wings flap for a few seconds as he/she left the pain behind to fly high and fly free.

I wept. 

So if anyone had any ideas on how to stop hawk attacks, we'd be grateful, as we're contemplating stopping the feeding, which is also heartbreaking as we enjoy watching them feed!!

All the best,

Rob, Tash and the menagerie.

Sorry if this upset anyone, but shared pain is half pain.


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## Jaye

I am sorry to hear of this. There are threads on how to deter hawks. The short of it is, there's only one sure way to stop a hawk.

But if you do a search, there are various strategies including things like recorded owl calls, y to draw Crows or Ravens to the vicinity, hanging cd's on a string which shine in the sunlight, getting an airhorn, tossing rocks or something to spook them, etc. All of these have mixed results at best.

The thing here is, a hawk has been casing your place for a while prior to him/her killing. So, they have figured out the feeding regimen/time and location, so they wait.
I am sure you have, but if you now take the time to carefully look around your area, in the trees, usually high up but sometimes lower, you will probably spot one spying. They aren't all that good at staying hidden when someone is making a point of looking out for them.

You can alter the feeding time, alter the feeding location, or literally remain present and obvious all thru the feeding; until you feel 'your' flock has had their fill, then shoo them off and pick up the remaining food.

Unless you do something, however, this will continue happen, very likely.


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## Miss-Sassypants

Hi Rob & Tash,
I'm so sorry to read about this ordeal. I for sure, would have fainted at the sight of flesh and bones. I guess we are lucky hawks are non-existent in our area (we have unruly humans which is probably worse!)

Do read up on hawk deterrents like Jaye has suggested above. Sometimes in our bid to help the pigeons, we unconciously lure predators to come closer to them. But hawks are animals too and they need to feed, can't really blame them for thinking your house is mcdonalds. Just practice caution and have a piped-in crow choir so that will scare them off.

Good luck. We are glad to hear the house pidgies are safe, though our hearts are with the families of Chevron and the unidentified 4-5 that were previously caught. Hope the rest are safe. Do take care!


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## pirab buk

OMG I cringed reading this.
Is there a way you can protect your pigeons?


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## nancybird

I hope you can keep the hawks away.


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## Tashy/Rob

nancybird said:


> I hope you can keep the hawks away.


Us too, we're not wanting to cease in the daily feeding of our flock, but we also don't want to have them endangered in any way!

Oh and on a slightly higher note, the other day, I went into the garden, and had a look around, there wasn't a single pidgie anywhere, so, and I don't know what possessed me, I shouted FLOOOOOOCK.......

And at least a dozen pidgies flew onto our roof!

Go figure!!

Rob, Tash and the gang!


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## Tashy/Rob

SMALL UPDATE!

Hi all, you have GOT to see this, I'm sure our friends across the globe may recognise the music!!!

http://youtu.be/vM8Jqn9JaZM

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Rob, Tash and the menagerie!

PS: All comments are welcome!


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## Miss-Sassypants

LOL! That is so cute!! 

Pip and Pop look so healthy and plump. Thanks so much for the video! More please!


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## Tashy/Rob

Hi all!!

Ok Ok we're aware it's been over 6 months since we've been on here and updated you all, so here we are....updates for you.

First, Tash and I have done some designing, and we've come up with an outside 'loft' for the guys, full heating and lighting, and music....yes music for them.....Pippas Palace! (pictures when it's constructed)

Spoilt pidgies!

Speaking of spoilt, for a week or so now, Francesca (or Frankie?) has been visiting us for prime food and fresh drinking water, Frankie (Francesca?) is an Indian fantail (ringed), who's been taken under the wing of Speckle, another regular of ours. He/she protects him/her!

Isn't Speckle handsome/pretty?


To be honest, we'd like to embrace both of them into the world of Pippa, Poppy and the gang, but they'll be impossible to invite (catch) won't they?

They're close these two, and at this precise moment, they're on the roof of the adjacent house (Flashbacks to the beginning of this thread).

Oh we've been here before, we had Snowflake visit us for a while, a Pouter, but we never saw her again.....which is sad.

So, anyone got any ideas? Or do we leave them alone, they'll always be welcome here though, food and drink aplenty.

Or do we offer them lodgings in the newly designed Pippa Palace (when constructed)?

Cheers.

Rob, Tash and the gang!


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