# What strain of white racers are good/the best



## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

what are some good strains of white racing homers? so far I've found snow white trenton racers. The site claims they are good. I would like a good bird, but also don't want to have to pay like hundreds of dollars for one or on a team of them since most of the " teams" for sale i've found haven't won any races or been flown its just selling them at 5 weeks old here is the site https://www.strombergschickens.com/product/Snow-White-Trenton-Racing-Homers/Pigeons 
Also as i probably will only be using my whites to earn money to feed the other pigeons should i get any other kind for racing or just for fun, are any of the pigeons on this site, the strains, are they any good?


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

I would like to add that not all of the birds are 5 weeks old just a few from what i read in the descriptions on them go to the pigeon section and you can see all the strains they have and some teams are only 5 weeks old, never been flown. Also if the birds they are selling are 3-5 months old...wouldn't that mean they are set on that location and won't fly back to my loft


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Dennis Kuhn,and he races and Wins with them.Link:
http://www.whiteracers.com/


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

That supplier (Strombergs) doesn't actually raise pigeons. They contract with pigeon fanciers to supply the birds ordered through them. Therefore, you are at the mercy of whoever is supplying the particular birds you order and they are shipped directly from the breeder. That type of chain of command leaves a lot of room for you not getting what you think you are. Young birds could be any age up to one year and that may not be what you want. I would rather get birds directly from the breeder.There are many who have good whites although I don't claim to know what strain is best. I think you should be able to purchase decent whites for much less than that site.

Jim


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Ditto on what loonecho says.And there's no pure strains anymore.Race birds of today are crosses of different strains.There's good flying white racers of different crosses.John Tierney of Md.claims to have a pure strain of I believe Stichelbauts that comes from the Disneyland Whites,but who knows.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The white delbars have done Ok. There are other whites that do ok in racing. Far as the site you posted. They price those birds for 45 dollars EACh where often you can find those types for 5 or 10 dollars EACH. And Any disney whites You find may or may not be that. Plus As birds raised for just releases. Are often not selected birds. Pigeon auctions .com. has some decent white birds from time to time from flyers. TAKE you time and find a few decent birds


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Roger Mortvedt is another flier with great whites.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Josepe said:


> Dennis Kuhn,and he races and Wins with them.Link:
> http://www.whiteracers.com/


It takes time and breeding and racing to come up with a strain of white birds that will do any good racing. Dennis has done all that, I have one of his white birds and will test it's young in 2013.
Dave


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## DonsPigeons (Jul 27, 2012)

Mortvedts are the best choices.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Josepe said:


> Dennis Kuhn,and he races and Wins with them.Link:
> http://www.whiteracers.com/


Dennis got some good white racer. I had some 2012 youngster from him and they are good racer. I tested them out to 25-45 miles and they return home.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Doveman1 said:


> what are some good strains of white racing homers? so far I've found snow white trenton racers. The site claims they are good. I would like a good bird, but also don't want to have to pay like hundreds of dollars for one or on a team of them since most of the " teams" for sale i've found haven't won any races or been flown its just selling them at 5 weeks old here is the site https://www.strombergschickens.com/product/Snow-White-Trenton-Racing-Homers/Pigeons
> Also as i probably will only be using my whites to earn money to feed the other pigeons should i get any other kind for racing or just for fun, are any of the pigeons on this site, the strains, are they any good?


If you are only using the whites for release birds all they need to do is come home from 50 miles, most average homers can do that and probabley 100, but I would not drive a 100 miles for anyone's wedding..lol.. but anyway, a good source would be another white release person who cares about his birds and if they come back, not someone who releases and says "whatever" in his head at least I got paid for the release..a good release person will want to improve their line and have healthy birds. Iam happy with mine. I got them from sounthern doves for love in MD. I added a few pair of almost all white race birds down from janssen lines and their young have paired with my first whites from MD, which IMO improved them by add new blood and racing line blood, the birds are a bit smaller and tighter in feather, which I like. they may not win any races but they can or could do their job well from a 50 mile or closer release, and really that is all you need.


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> If you are only using the whites for release birds all they need to do is come home from 50 miles, most average homers can do that and probabley 100, but I would not drive a 100 miles for anyone's wedding..lol.. but anyway, a good source would be another white release person who cares about his birds and if they come back, not someone who releases and says "whatever" in his head at least I got paid for the release..a good release person will want to improve their line and have healthy birds. Iam happy with mine. I got them from sounthern doves for love in MD. I added a few pair of almost all white race birds down from janssen lines and their young have paired with my first whites from MD, which IMO improved them by add new blood and racing line blood, the birds are a bit smaller and tighter in feather, which I like. they may not win any races but they can or could do their job well from a 50 mile or closer release, and really that is all you need.


Well I may use them in racing. If I want to so far I think i would more enjoy just having them and letting fly from the loft each day and come back, using the release business to pay for their food, and if i make any extra money thats good. I figured if I did do racing for training I would have to drive hundreds of miles to places anyway to prepare them for long distances races and not get paid anything at all for that. I don't want to be the kind of person who doesn't care about his doves and just thinks eh at least i got paid..that seems cruel  i would have to raise them from sometimes even babies how could someone feel that way? the main thing for the release biz is to get enough money so that way they pay for their, and other birds food, meds and other stuff. So if i did decide to race them and didn't do the release i would probably have to drive hundreds of miles to release them myself and not get paid..might as well do dove releasings and get paid for training them to race. Slowly but surely I am getting into the idea of racing. Just don't want to get into a club of fanciers who seem more obsessed with winning and it being more about winning then just having fun with your bird


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

re lee said:


> The white delbars have done Ok. There are other whites that do ok in racing. Far as the site you posted. They price those birds for 45 dollars EACh where often you can find those types for 5 or 10 dollars EACH. And Any disney whites You find may or may not be that. Plus As birds raised for just releases. Are often not selected birds. Pigeon auctions .com. has some decent white birds from time to time from flyers. TAKE you time and find a few decent birds


Man i figured all the dove release businesses use white racing homers...so far thats what all the ones im finding on the net say their birds are. I'm confused so are the release homing pigeons different from the racers? are they bred for shorter distances? I was going to use white racing homers since i was thinking of maybe doing races, like ive said the dove releasing is just for food to feed my birds if I make any profit cash then thats just icing on the cake.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Doveman1 said:


> Man i figured all the dove release businesses use white racing homers...so far thats what all the ones im finding on the net say their birds are. I'm confused so are the release homing pigeons different from the racers? are they bred for shorter distances? I was going to use white racing homers since i was thinking of maybe doing races, like ive said the dove releasing is just for food to feed my birds if I make any profit cash then thats just icing on the cake.


Well many of the white release birds Have not been bred right. MEANING they have not over time been trained and selected well. OFTEN they get lost much easyer. They sometimes take a few days to even get home from less then 50 miles. And race bred birds You would lose less MEANING you would not have to breed as many. They would get home better. Just trying to give you an idea where to start.


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

re lee said:


> Well many of the white release birds Have not been bred right. MEANING they have not over time been trained and selected well. OFTEN they get lost much easyer. They sometimes take a few days to even get home from less then 50 miles. And race bred birds You would lose less MEANING you would not have to breed as many. They would get home better. Just trying to give you an idea where to start.


Oh i get it. Bit of confusion on my part. So far the only ones ive looked at online all use racing homers so that the birds don't get lost. I don't get why someone wouldn't used a trained racing bird. It just makes sense both in a business sense and a moral sense


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Josepe said:


> Ditto on what loonecho says.And there's no pure strains anymore.Race birds of today are crosses of different strains.There's good flying white racers of different crosses.John Tierney of Md.claims to have a pure strain of I believe Stichelbauts that comes from the Disneyland Whites,but who knows.


White Plentickx racing pigeons were the base blood for the Disney whites. I havent found anyone who breeds them and races them however. The only breeders of the Pletickx whites seems to have their breeding systems based on white bird releases for weddings and such. 

As for the Mortvedt whites at one time they were pretty dominate in our area. I even had a pair of them myself although not directly from Motvedt. They were OK out to the 200 mile races then I never saw their youngsters again. 

I even tried crossing them on my other bloodlines and producing grizzles. They did a little better but not much. Hech for that matter I just have to rely on the honesty of the person I got them from as to whether they were in fact Mortvedt whites and not something else entirely. 

I have Grizzles right now that fly pretty good all the way out to the 350 mark. They are a mix of Sion whites and White bandit with a good amount of Old Blood Jansen 05/06 bloodlines mixed in. 

If anyone knows of a flier who has flown the Plentickx Whites successfully I would sure like their info. You know how the wives are the Prettier the better. But to stay for long in my loft they also have to produce good flying youngsters.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

It is extremley hard and time consuming to breed for both racing and color, breeding better birds for racing has nothing to do with color. white release does, which means because it's white it is good but you loose the real athlete that are race birds. I saw the difference when I actually add some racing stock in my loft. release birds are for release, racers are for racing..they may both be homing pigeons but used for different purposes.. to find a white race bird that does well would probably be very challenging, they are out there but who would want to sell a good bird? their young can be bought probably..but for how much.. I bet it is not what most would pay.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> It is extremley hard and time consuming to breed for both racing and color, breeding better birds for racing has nothing to do with color. white release does, which means because it's white it is good but you loose the real athlete that are race birds. I saw the difference when I actually add some racing stock in my loft. release birds are for release, racers are for racing..they may both be homing pigeons but used for different purposes.. to find a white race bird that does well would probably be very challenging, they are out there but who would want to sell a good bird? their young can be bought probably..but for how much.. I bet it is not what most would pay.


True. But It can and has been done. And useing other colors into the white birds Keeps them GOING strong. BUT just raising WHITES not testing them. Soon a person has no idea what birds are the better birds for breeding. AND several people in white release bird do not bother to even band there birds Which makes it harder to keep decent records. It is just as RACING goes people are not setting down as much on color. And color is just a mask


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

spirit wings said:


> It is extremley hard and time consuming to breed for both racing and color, breeding better birds for racing has nothing to do with color. white release does, which means because it's white it is good but you loose the real athlete that are race birds. I saw the difference when I actually add some racing stock in my loft. release birds are for release, racers are for racing..they may both be homing pigeons but used for different purposes.. to find a white race bird that does well would probably be very challenging, they are out there but who would want to sell a good bird? their young can be bought probably..but for how much.. I bet it is not what most would pay.


Well I can tell you I've probibly paid way too much for some of the breeders I currently have that are your basic blue checks and blue bars, reds of every variations and so on. So to a racer and especially to me the color of the bird if way secondary to other factors to include stamina, speed and general health. However with that said breeding pure whites that could go the distance out to 600 miles or more would be a fun project and quite frankly no harder than breeding any other colors to do the same. The hard part is finding good base stock that say can already go out to 200 to 300 miles minimum. With birds that can fly these races back to back same as my current bloodlines. That has been the hardest part and yes any recomendations would be appreciated.

No Spirit Wings I dont expect anyone to sell off their best birds (unless your lucky enough to obtain them from a total loft sell out) but youngster off of the best proven flier are deffinitly a plus for anyone to start a family of whites with.


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

lawman said:


> Well I can tell you I've probibly paid way too much for some of the breeders I currently have that are your basic blue checks and blue bars, reds of every variations and so on. So to a racer and especially to me the color of the bird if way secondary to other factors to include stamina, speed and general health. However with that said breeding pure whites that could go the distance out to 600 miles or more would be a fun project and quite frankly no harder than breeding any other colors to do the same. The hard part is finding good base stock that say can already go out to 200 to 300 miles minimum. With birds that can fly these races back to back same as my current bloodlines. That has been the hardest part and yes any recomendations would be appreciated.
> 
> No Spirit Wings I dont expect anyone to sell off their best birds (unless your lucky enough to obtain them from a total loft sell out) but youngster off of the best proven flier are deffinitly a plus for anyone to start a family of whites with.


Well I'm mainly into keeping the birds. the whites would be racers i thought all were racers at first but then re lee proved me wrong. Learning all the time. I wouldn't just have whites though the whites would just be bread winners for food and meds not only for them but the ones that aren't white i plan on keeping and maybe a little cash on the side from what ive seen most people charge ( 500-600 dollars for 20-30 whites released)

if I get more into racing ill still enter my whites if they are good enough, but i'd probably most of the ones id enter in races wouldn't be white. I find all the colors pretty. Especially the ones that have the shiny purple and green feathers on their neck. So far from documentaries on racing ive seen people are very competitive. I just don't want someone trash talking my bird because it didn't come in first or something like that cause to me all my animals are like family. So you insult my birds,my dogs, my cats, goats, any animal i have your insulting my family in my eyes


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

re lee said:


> True. But It can and has been done. And useing other colors into the white birds Keeps them GOING strong. BUT just raising WHITES not testing them. Soon a person has no idea what birds are the better birds for breeding. AND several people in white release bird do not bother to even band there birds Which makes it harder to keep decent records. It is just as RACING goes people are not setting down as much on color. And color is just a mask


Why wouldn't they band their birds  I would band all my birds just because I would love them. I mean even if they are in it just for the money it seems like itd save them money by banding them and taking good care of them


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Doveman1 said:


> what are some good strains of white racing homers? so far I've found snow white trenton racers. The site claims they are good. I would like a good bird, but also don't want to have to pay like hundreds of dollars for one or on a team of them since most of the " teams" for sale i've found haven't won any races or been flown its just selling them at 5 weeks old here is the site https://www.strombergschickens.com/product/Snow-White-Trenton-Racing-Homers/Pigeons
> Also as i probably will only be using my whites to earn money to feed the other pigeons should i get any other kind for racing or just for fun, are any of the pigeons on this site, the strains, are they any good?


 I would attempt to find yourself a few "good" white pigeons period, then when you have actually found some, you can inquire as to what their "strain" is. Because if you go looking for the "name", you won't necessarily have found the "good". I am sure there are white race winners out there, and it is the winners you should look for IMHO, as that is where you will find the "good" ones. What you will find, is that there are far more blue winners, then there are white ones. So "good" white ones are far more rare then good blue ones.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Doveman1 said:


> Well I'm mainly into keeping the birds. the whites would be racers i thought all were racers at first but then re lee proved me wrong. Learning all the time. I wouldn't just have whites though the whites would just be bread winners for food and meds not only for them but the ones that aren't white i plan on keeping and maybe a little cash on the side from what ive seen most people charge ( 500-600 dollars for 20-30 whites released)
> 
> if I get more into racing ill still enter my whites if they are good enough, but i'd probably most of the ones id enter in races wouldn't be white. I find all the colors pretty. Especially the ones that have the shiny purple and green feathers on their neck. So far from documentaries on racing ive seen people are very competitive. I just don't want someone trash talking my bird because it didn't come in first or something like that cause to me all my animals are like family. So you insult my birds,my dogs, my cats, goats, any animal i have your insulting my family in my eyes


You might want to explain what your talking about, Because I have yet to find anyone who will sell off there best and expect to stay on top of the race sheets. Anyone who tells you they are selling off there best fall into one of a few catigories, it will be up to you to determine if they are telling you the truth. 1) they need the money, 2) they are selling everything off and therefor even their best are up for sale, 3) They are giving you a bird that they themselves origianally planned on keeping because they know you need the help (some of the best birds I've ever owned I obtained in this mannor) 4) They are feather merchants and are going to tell you what you want to hear (some of the worse birds I've ever owned I obtained this way).

I have no clue as to why you took my words personnaly, unless your feeling guilty for something I'm not as yet aware of.

Even thou I fly my birds (they are racing stock you know and expected to fly in order to keep a perch in my loft) I can give you full detailed histories of each of my birds in my breeder lofts. What they have accomplished and more importantly what their youngsters have accomplished for me, my family and close friends whom I have given some of their young. That my friend is how they earned a spot in the breeding section.

Unlike many on this website I grew up on a farm and yes we ate what we grew. It was a simple fact of life and still is throughout most of our country (USA) and the rest of the world. If you live somewhere (I presume a city) where your reality is simply going to the market and buying what you need. TNow don't take my words out of context there is nothing wrong with this, except that you forget where all that processed food you buy in a store originally came from.

Doveman1 your way of life is not the way everyone on this website lives, nor do I expect everyone to agree with me. I think it is great that you keep birds as simple pets. I have those in my family as well. Parakeets and Blue crown Conures along with fish of various types and sizes . That doesnt even get into the working class dogs as well as recue dogs I keep as pets. The only jobs given to these dogs is to be companions to my children and protect the home and family when I'm at work protecting everyone else. As for my Racing pigeons whether breeder or fliers they each have a job to do inorder to keep a perch in my lofts.

Lawman


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

lawman said:


> You might want to explain what your talking about, Because I have yet to find anyone who will sell off there best and expect to stay on top of the race sheets. Anyone who tells you they are selling off there best fall into one of a few catigories, it will be up to you to determine if they are telling you the truth. 1) they need the money, 2) they are selling everything off and therefor even their best are up for sale, 3) They are giving you a bird that they themselves origianally planned on keeping because they know you need the help (some of the best birds I've ever owned I obtained in this mannor) 4) They are feather merchants and are going to tell you what you want to hear (some of the worse birds I've ever owned I obtained this way).
> 
> I have no clue as to why you took my words personnaly, unless your feeling guilty for something I'm not as yet aware of.
> 
> ...


perhaps i should be more specific. I don't like people trash talking my animals. My family is from virginia my grandfather moved here for work. They lived on a farm. To survive he moved here, the city, but still raised us in the way one growing up on a farm would. Honestly, loyalty, trust, self reliance, hard working. He took me to the holler all the time and so I have learned alot from him and will be moving to the country. What i mean by people trash talking my birds is not people on this forum. I have watched a few pigeon racing documentaries and a lot of the racers in them were overly competitive and would trash talk other fanciers birds and I don't get it. If my birds were good quality i would be insulted if another fancier were to talk bad about them , because I raised them. The birds i'm talking about acquiring are from peoples who have bred them from their best racing birds, not the racing birds themselves.


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## jboy1 (Jan 26, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would attempt to find yourself a few "good" white pigeons period, then when you have actually found some, you can inquire as to what their "strain" is. Because if you go looking for the "name", you won't necessarily have found the "good". I am sure there are white race winners out there, and it is the winners you should look for IMHO, as that is where you will find the "good" ones. What you will find, is that there are far more blue winners, then there are white ones. So "good" white ones are far more rare then good blue ones.


99.9% of birds in a race are blue, maybe a few whites or grizzles that's why you don't see many whites win, And i thought you were a big ludo guy he loved grizzles AND WON..


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## triple7loft (Nov 22, 2012)

I second this he has done the hard work and is a great guy to talk to ....




Josepe said:


> Dennis Kuhn,and he races and Wins with them.Link:
> http://www.whiteracers.com/


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Doveman1 said:


> perhaps i should be more specific. I don't like people trash talking my animals. My family is from virginia my grandfather moved here for work. They lived on a farm. To survive he moved here, the city, but still raised us in the way one growing up on a farm would. Honestly, loyalty, trust, self reliance, hard working. He took me to the holler all the time and so I have learned alot from him and will be moving to the country. What i mean by people trash talking my birds is not people on this forum. I have watched a few pigeon racing documentaries and a lot of the racers in them were overly competitive and would trash talk other fanciers birds and I don't get it. If my birds were good quality i would be insulted if another fancier were to talk bad about them , because I raised them. The birds i'm talking about acquiring are from peoples who have bred them from their best racing birds, not the racing birds themselves.


Now at least I understand where you were coming from. Unfortunately I have to agree with Warren on this one (as much as it pains me) . Names of breeders and bloodlines get aquired many times by people who know nothing of breeding performance birds. They simply breed them as fast as they can and sell of the youngsters as being from this or that bloodline "best in the world" be they whites, blues, grizzles and such. These are the feather merchants in my book, they themselves have never done anything with the birds or bloodline other that bred them and sell their youngsters. Most of the time for far more than they bought the original blood. 

Or you have people aquire bloodlines such as the Plentickx whites and begin using them only for short range releases. Such as white wedding or funeral releases. Now if you have never seen one of these releases, well you have truely missed a beautiful sight. Typically none of these people ever fly the birds over 30 miles from the home loft, so over subsequent generations the racing abilities are lost. Perhaps never to be recovered. 

The Plentickx whites at one time were flown for over 1000 milies and much like the Mortvedt whites, American Trenton and Abilene strains are no longer true racing strains. They or al least those who still claim the names breed homers but I havent seen any who could win races with these bloodlines. It is a true shame because in their day and at their distances very hard to beat.

My personnel goal is to obtain the white Plentickx birds from as pure a source as I can obtain and over several (maybe more than several) generations return them to a long distance family of birds that any Racing loft would be proud to own. It will take time and a lot of heartache but with a dedicated individual or group it like all things can be done.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

lawman said:


> Now at least I understand where you were coming from. *Unfortunately I have to agree with Warren on this one (as much as it pains me) .* Names of breeders and bloodlines get aquired many times by people who know nothing of breeding performance birds. They simply breed them as fast as they can and sell of the youngsters as being from this or that bloodline "best in the world" be they whites, blues, grizzles and such. These are the feather merchants in my book, they themselves have never done anything with the birds or bloodline other that bred them and sell their youngsters. Most of the time for far more than they bought the original blood.
> 
> Or you have people aquire bloodlines such as the Plentickx whites and begin using them only for short range releases. Such as white wedding or funeral releases. Now if you have never seen one of these releases, well you have truely missed a beautiful sight. Typically none of these people ever fly the birds over 30 miles from the home loft, so over subsequent generations the racing abilities are lost. Perhaps never to be recovered.
> 
> ...


 According to my wife, there are any number of people who feel exactly as you do, and some of them do not even own pigeons ! 

You went into more detail then I may have offered. But, I know exactly what you are saying. I have seen it first hand myself locally. Variety of reasons and time lines as to how this comes about, but the facts are very much there, for anyone to see. There is always the possibility of exceptions, as no two pigeons are alike. 

I guess as much as it might pain me, I will have to agree with you p) about the racing "Trenton" strain of 1,000 mile wins, have been lost to time. 

It is also true, that what you say is somewhat politically incorrect, in terms of pigeon politics that is. Because just as sure that you or I might be, that the "strain" which was called "Trenton" in say I don't know 1955 ? Is a far cry from what one might find, if they go to a loft, where the owner will assure you they are 100% "pure" Trenton's. That "Trenton" owner will sure get mad at you for "disrespecting" his birds ! Say to his face on shipping night, that Trentons are not real racing pigeons and it might turn into a bar room type brawl. 

What I can tell you, is that every bird called "Trenton" that I have personally seen in recent years was not a "racing" type, but a "Show" type bird. In my local example, owner attempted to race this line, and experienced 100% losses by the time he hit 190 mile race station so gave up on racing them, he did have success with them at the shows.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> According to my wife, there are any number of people who feel exactly as you do, and some of them do not even own pigeons !
> 
> You went into more detail then I may have offered. But, I know exactly what you are saying. I have seen it first hand myself locally. Variety of reasons and time lines as to how this comes about, but the facts are very much there, for anyone to see. There is always the possibility of exceptions, as no two pigeons are alike.
> 
> ...


WEll hahhaha, Warren I try but being politically correct is not one of my best vertues!


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