# Another Water Warmer Question



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I've been told the heaters for under the drinkers work until the temp. gets down in the teens then the globe part of the drinker freezes. 

Now my question is has anyone ever tried wrapping a heat tape for water lines around the globe portion of the drinker or even the base of the drinker?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

In order for them to work u have to wrap insulation over it and that would be a pain when u have to fill it, you could not get it wet. You could try it without the insulation but i would duck tape it on there so you only have to unplug it to fill it. I have never had one freeze solid mostly they just skim over with ice it really isn't a problem but i guess it depends on how cold it gets in your area.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I was thinking about duct taping a couple rounds of the heat tape around the globe portion, with a short cord so I could unplug it to fill. I really don't want to have to insulate the globe either. I work three 12 hour shift a week, And I just didn't want to have to have my wife or son out there messing with frozen drinkers all winter.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well you could switch over to something like this for the colder months. It would work.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/298.html










Holds 1 1/2 quarts.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

would that keep from freezing with a light bulb box under it? Maybe?
I may just go that route. The simpler the better in my opinion.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Chromie said:


> I've been told the heaters for under the drinkers work until the temp. gets down in the teens then the globe part of the drinker freezes.
> 
> Now my question is has anyone ever tried wrapping a heat tape for water lines around the globe portion of the drinker or even the base of the drinker?


Hey Craig did you see this thread http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/watering-in-the-cold-48453.html 

R-Tune has a neat idea of using a submersible aquarium heater to keep the water from freezing solid.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Chromie said:


> would that keep from freezing with a light bulb box under it? Maybe?
> I may just go that route. The simpler the better in my opinion.


Yes, it would work. Get a couple of them and just change them out when you clean them. Even one would do. And it is simple. I used these waterers a lot in the beginning, and they worked well. But I'm always trying different things. I keep them though, as you never know...........


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Hey Craig did you see this thread http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/watering-in-the-cold-48453.html
> 
> R-Tune has a neat idea of using a submersible aquarium heater to keep the water from freezing solid.


yes I seen both of them, I like the light bulb box the best. Those fish tank heater are expensive, here locally the cheapest one I have found was $60

I think I'm going to go the simple route, the Jay3 posted...I like simple!!


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

With this feeder who does the plastic window work for the birds?


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

Chromie said:


> I was thinking about duct taping a couple rounds of the heat tape around the globe portion, with a short cord so I could unplug it to fill. I really don't want to have to insulate the globe either. I work three 12 hour shift a week, And I just didn't want to have to have my wife or son out there messing with frozen drinkers all winter.


The temp. sensor on the tape has to touch medal in order to sense temp. & work.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Its cold again any new ideas on how to keep water from freezing?


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

Yeah sure Bug lets start this again. LOL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sure. Just heat your loft. LOL.


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

I do. My home has heat so should theirs. LOL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

So do I. Not going to watch my birds huddled up in freezing weather. Besides, it's a lot more fun spending time in there when you aren't turning blue! Frozen poops must be very hard to scrape!


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

No heat no drafts. Now we have been over this many times. LOL


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> No heat no drafts. Now we have been over this many times. LOL


No my heater is outside. I figure if I can get it warm outside the water won't freeze inside. I'm not having much luck.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

Do a search for "pond Heaters" They are for keeping ornamental ponds open in freezing weather.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Getting a little lazy changing the water so I made this. Heres a heater I made. Cost me about $3.00 with out the light bulb which I had. Plus scrap wood. Water gets a lil frozen over night. Just the top of the cone. In the day when temp rises it all melts. We have had 10 deg and a lil less and its been good. Made 3 of them for my loft.










If anybody is interested I will post pics on how to make it. Very simple.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What size bulb Thanks


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> What size bulb Thanks



I used the energy saver. Its 60 Watts but uses like 22 watts.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

OK I have to do something for my new loft and was hoping someone would post something cheep to make.That looks easy enough. Thanks


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Im gonna try to do this for those that would like to make one. Very Simple 
I wont be able to do all steps in one day but I will do it. Maybe by the first picture you can get an Idea.

Tools: Jigsaw. Drill with 1/2 bit. finish nails 1 1/2 .

1. 4pcs of 8in x 9in ( this will be the box) *scrap* 9 inches high
2. 1 pc of 3in x 8in ( this will hold the ceiling box) scrap
3. 1 energy efficent light bulb (60 watts but really uses 22 watts) Spare
4. 1 ceiling box $1.07 Homedepot
5. 1 pc 0f 12 x 15 ( top where waterer will go) scrap
6. 1 used electrical cord from an old appliance or light fixture.( I save them) or you could buy some cord and a plug.
7. 1 keyless plastic ceiling lamp holder $1.25 Homedepot

*Never mind the long piece of white wood on the Left of the picture.*


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I bet if you lined it with aluminum foil it would reflect the heat up and work better. The boards probably absorb the heat.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

also, energy saver bulbs are designed to give light, not heat.
you'd prob get the same (or more) heat from a normal 10 or 15 w bulb which effectively for this purpose will costs less to run


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I bet if you lined it with aluminum foil it would reflect the heat up and work better. The boards probably absorb the heat.


I used foil covered insulation from Home Depo. cut it with the table saw, wedged it in and put a few Sheetrock screws to hold tight..


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Quazar said:


> also, energy saver bulbs are designed to give light, not heat.
> you'd prob get the same (or more) heat from a normal 10 or 15 w bulb which effectively for this purpose will costs less to run


I didn't think those bulbs put out much heat. I was going to check them when i got home because we just started using them in our lights. On another note I don't think there as bright as a regular bulbs I understand there the same watt but to me they seem dimmer.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I have used a 40 watt bulb this whole time. We had temps below zero with the wind chill and no frozen water...I use 2 litter drinkers from Foy's when it gets super cold.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I didn't think those bulbs put out much heat. I was going to check them when i got home because we just started using them in our lights. On another note I don't think there as bright as a regular bulbs I understand there the same watt but to me they seem dimmer.


I agree totally with you
The way light bulbs are calibrated is not the way they are used in general use.
The light emmited is measured at a certain distance from the bulb, which is far closer than where one would normally be positioned.
At normal use distance they are slightly dimmer, I normally find youve got to go up at least one range to get the desired brightness.
My elderly mother was also advised this by her optician, as it was putting to much strain on her eyes when trying to read the paper, and making her suffer from headaches.
The only good thing about them is they last longer 
Its also getting increasingly harder to find the old style as a lot of manufacturers are just not producing them.
In the UK, all the major supermarkets have stopped stocking normal 100w bulbs.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

And i might add that those new bulbs will not work on a dimmer switch so what are people going to do to dim there lights like myself. I have dimmers in my living room and my bedroom. No more romantic nights.  LOL


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> And i might add that those new bulbs will not work on a dimmer switch so what are people going to do to dim there lights like myself. I have dimmers in my living room and my bedroom. No more romantic nights.  LOL


They have 3 way dimmer energy efficent light bulbs. Couple more dollars but they have them.Also they have more then one kind of brightness with these bulbs. I beleive its 4 different kinds of brightness.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I will check into that thanks.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok heres 2 pics I took at night. One with the flood light and one without. 2 water heaters on. 2 sections. I could use this for when I start breeding season its so bright. The light goes right throw the waterer. My wife told me the other night the birds where going crazy. ( Have the cocks and hens seperated)These bulbs are from Homedepot. All I remember its the blue pack. They have 4 different types of brightness. Beleive me it gets the job done as far as the birds having there water.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I will check into that thanks.


Here you go

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

OK Thanks. I'm not sure i want to pay 8 dollars per bulb when i have 4 lights in my living room with 6 bulbs in each light.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

That bottom pic is the light from your water bulbs?


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Yep thats the light. If you look to the left you could see some light through the vent. It lights up a good 3/4 ofthe loft. I go out at night and smoke my cigs and look at them and cant wait to next race season.
Also the dimmable lights are expensive but they do have them.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

Compact Fluorescent lamps produce more light, lumens, for a smaller amount of watts. They are more effecient in that more light is produced and LESS heat is generated. 
For this purpose a cheap bulb will do more for less. Tungsten filiments are better at making heat than light. If you are wondering LED's are most effecient, High Pressure Sodium are next then Fluorescent. Quartz hallogen have one of the highest heat to light ratios. They are even used in a type of high speed oven and they gobble up electricity.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Doesn't the light keep the birds from resting well and mess up the moult cycle.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would think that they must hate that brightness all the time. You could do the same with a lower wattage of a regular bulb I think.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

You can even coat a 40 watt bulb with black silicone caulking. No light just heat. Silicone is resistant to high temps.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wayne Johnson said:


> You can even coat a 40 watt bulb with black silicone caulking. No light just heat. Silicone is resistant to high temps.


Would it still heat as much?


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

Energy is never created nor destroyed. the heat may not dissipate as quickly but it has to go somewhere. The vacuum inside the bulb cannot maintain it.


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## HARO (Oct 29, 2010)

I use the same type of heater (wooden box) but add a line voltage thermostat to control the heat. Set it on the lowest setting, and use a 60 watt bulb. I also tack the bottom of a small tin can into the hole, so that the depression in the bottom of the bullet drinker fits over it. The only light that escapes is from a 3/8" hole drilled in the side of the box so I can tell that it's working.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

A light bulb just went off in my head. I have an idea. Have to check on some things first. I will get back later. I may have a good tutorial in the making.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Great. Now look what we did. He is off to make my birds hate me more.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Another way to make a water heater that I saw in another forum was with a fishtank heater. Also the Nov.1 Digest has how to make one.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

JRNY nice heater design. Is that wood pellets on your loft floor ?

A friend of mine uses a heated one gal. dog water bowl with a 5 gal. bucket turned up side down to cover the bowl. The trick is you need a 2 inch drill to cut holes in the 5 gal bucket just above the dog bowl rim. That can also be placed in between two sections of your loft so birds can drink from both sides.

About $20.00 all new stuff from Farm and Fleet


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> JRNY nice heater design. Is that wood pellets on your loft floor ?
> 
> A friend of mine uses a heated one gal. dog water bowl with a 5 gal. bucket turned up side down to cover the bowl. The trick is you need a 2 inch drill to cut holes in the 5 gal bucket just above the dog bowl rim. That can also be placed in between two sections of your loft so birds can drink from both sides.
> 
> About $20.00 all new stuff from Farm and Fleet


Yeah trying pellets on one side of the loft. Pretty good so far. But dont have no water leaks. Turns into dust. But I fixed the leak.


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## vivagirl (Jun 24, 2008)

*Water warmer*

Take a bucket 3 gal or 5 gal. Cut one or 2 holes in the bottom so they can stick their head in to drink.(2.5 inches from the bottom of the bucket) Suspend a light inside the bucket close to the water. Put a top on the bucket. Normally a 50 watt will do the trick here in N.C. but you will need more north. The 5 gallon bucket will hold about 1 gallon of water.


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## randymcone (Nov 19, 2008)

I use one of those poultry waterers. Ya know the type with the white top and the round, red plastic base? You can buy them at most feed stores. I have a $4 Walmart coffee mug warmer sitting in a round biscuit pan that acts as a base for the waterer. It has never frozen.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

randymcone said:


> I use one of those poultry waterers. Ya know the type with the white top and the round, red plastic base? You can buy them at most feed stores. I have a $4 Walmart coffee mug warmer sitting in a round biscuit pan that acts as a base for the waterer. It has never frozen.


Theres nothing to keep the poop out of the water with those waterers is there?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. But as long as they don't land on top of it, they don't normally poop in them. I just fix the top so that they don't land on it.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

GEMcC5150 said:


> With this feeder who does the plastic window work for the birds?


If you are refering to the waterer with the plastic windows, I use them. The windows help keep the heat from the warmed water from just going unused. If the window is frozen shut it reaaly cold out. (lol) the traped heat also helps melt the frozen top from the bottom still suplying water. I use the heater that fits into the drinker base and totaly frozen water rarely happens, on the drinking area. The top will freeze. If the top is frozen it's time to refill. I change the water daily anyway. 

I made a bulb box with a milkcrate. I covered the outside with foam and cut a hole for the base of the waterer. This also insulated the water area.Then I taped the bulb mount to a heavy base (the bulb was adjusted for temp of water desired) and this worked well untill I got the other heaters I now use. The light into the loft was filtered by the drinker and was not crazy bright all night. The only problem was when the birds went to drink on the "platform" created by the crate the foam slowly got torn up by there nails.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

A Smith Where you located in pa if i can ask.? There talking about the waterers you get at the farm store for chickens.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> A Smith Where you located in pa if i can ask.? There talking about the waterers you get at the farm store for chickens.


I'm not far from the Saylorsburg exit on Rt. 33. My waterer I bought from global. http://www.globalpigeon.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_69&products_id=267 Also available now from new england pigeon supply.http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/water_fountains_heaters.htm


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

This is the type they are talking about. I only payed 14 for my waterer like yours

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...quipment/3-1-2-gallon-poultry-drinker-2167646


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## randymcone (Nov 19, 2008)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Theres nothing to keep the poop out of the water with those waterers is there?


Nope, but I actually use a small orange traffic cone (the kind you can buy at a sporting goods store for soccer) and set it on top. Keeps the birds from perching on the flat top of the water jug.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

And if you use the smaller one, the top of a 2 liter soda bottle works great glued to the top with caulk.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

randymcone said:


> Nope, but I actually use a small orange traffic cone (the kind you can buy at a sporting goods store for soccer) and set it on top. Keeps the birds from perching on the flat top of the water jug.


 By the time you go to all that trouble you just could have got the right waterer. I only payed 14 for mine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> By the time you go to all that trouble you just could have got the right waterer. I only payed 14 for mine.


What do you use?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Something similar to this. I got mine at a pigeon show.

http://www.globalpigeon.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_69&products_id=294


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those are nice looking.


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