# Just In Case ..



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Just in case you don't really follow the General Forum ..

Here are a slew of pictures from the LAPC YB Lawn show from today. There were some interesting colors and feather patterns for me .. Also as you will see from the captions .. a WHOLE BUNCH of pigeons that I don't know what they are! 

http://www.rims.net/2008LAPCLawnShow/

Terry


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Ooooo, they're all so pretty!
Since I have nothing else to do, I'll guess what breeds the ones without names in the captions are 
10 and 11 (maybe?) I think are Oriental Frills.
12 Chinese Owl
13 and 19 Bokhara Trumpeter?
21 Oriental Frill
22 Magpie/German or Ghent Pouter
25 Nun
26 Holle Cropper
38-41 English Long-faced tumbler
42 and 43 English Trumpeters
48 ASR
54 Starling?
73 english long-faced tumbler


Woo. I'm not that sure on any of those, but I guessed. Thank goodness for the Pigeon Breeds book! 

Maybe I should have posted this in the other thread for this...


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Becky! Posting here is fine .. I'll collect all the ID's and sort them out and update the captions.

I just get carried away at the shows and take picture after picture with nobody to ask about what the breed is. At the lawn shows, there are no cage cards, so I'm clueless, but I have a great time anyway! 

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Since Becky was first responder in this forum, here's another response:

_Wish I could have been there.....I think I have identified more of the birds....
10, 11, 12 and 77, 76 are all turbits, I think.
15, 18 Dyed birds....Lord Berners of England, a noted aesthete and brainiac, had one of the treasure houses of England, and every day after tea would loose his flock of pure white pigeons, all dyed lovely shades of pink (to match his underwear according to some of the local wags!) for the entertainment of the people with whom he had just enjoyed an afternoon of gossip and good food!
19, 20 Trumpeters
24 Frillback
26 Mondain
29 looks like my dear old Newt (who was white), and is probably a short faced tumbler, as are 38 & 40, I think.
40-42 Trumpeters again.....rosette on top, LOOOOOONG muffs on the bottom and a squatty stance.....not much for flying, just floor huggers but large, heavily feathered birds.
51 indeed a Jacobin (as were my ancestors, the MacDonalds!)
53, yes a darling little Chinese owl.....had one that had been attacked by a hawk and brought to me by a lady that rescued it. He was with me for three or four years before he died....probably an old bird who got lucky when the hawk attacked.
81 Fairy swallow......I used to have one of these....Probably the most beautiful breed I ever had. Were there no Indian fantails in the group? Used to have several, including one that looked like a turkey. Also had a mookie, and had not seen another until I got to look at an old guy's loft a couple of months ago. The rat wouldn't sell me any! ~n_

Terry


----------



## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Terry, #54 is a Suabian. I 'm not sure that is the correct spelling.

Margaret


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Margaret is right*

About the Suabian and I think it was spelled right.
The Swallow is a Silesian Swallow, blue, white bar. Fairy Swallows are shell crested.
The Pouter with white bars is a Saxon Pouter.
I also noticed a Reversewing Pouter, Black (white wings)
The Trumpeters with the odd crests look like Bokhara Trumps but I don't even recognize the crest. I haven't been to a pigeon show in 30 years or so. 
I noticed a Nun also.
I don't know all the Pouters anymore. Some were probably Gaditano and Mercheno (sp?) which are both new to me but seem to be popular. You just didn't see alot of the breeds that have come around in the last 20 years or so back in my show pigeon days. Some are actually new breeds and some are old breeds from foreign countries that we just never used to see.
Things really change.
I'll go over them some more to see if I can identify any more that have not been identified. Frank would probably know them all as he is a judge.

These pics are a great addition to the breeds gallery. Great stuff Terry.

Bill


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the additional info! I'll work on getting the captions updated tonight/tomorrow.

Terry


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Took another look*

52 Looks to be a yellow Roller
55 May be an Egyptian Swift
58 Berlin Shortface Tumbler
67 Odd color on Modena is probably Opal
75 Norwich Croppers or is it 76
77 Oriental Frill probably spread brown frill stencil
82 Might be Dresden Trumpeters, can't see well enough, could be English, depends on the beak crest. English beak crests point up and Dresdens curl down over the bill.
91 Jacobin

Bill


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Gorgeous bird - you do a great close up photography, Terry!


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

OH! Bill just reminded me about the Breeds gallery like the Color genetics one I was going to do. I've got the colors up, but I completely forgot about the breeds. Has anyone already made one here? If not I'll make the folders right now and add some of my pictures.


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

MaryOfExeter said:


> OH! Bill just reminded me about the Breeds gallery like the Color genetics one I was going to do. I've got the colors up, but I completely forgot about the breeds. Has anyone already made one here? If not I'll make the folders right now and add some of my pictures.


Do you mean something like this - http://www.pigeons.biz/pigeons/photogallery/showpigs/sindex.html ?


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Outstanding pictures. I always LOVE looking at the show pics our members take. Thanks for sharing them with us!


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Oh wow I didn't even notice we had that already  But no I meant in the gallery section of the forum. We had the idea a while back to make a Color Genetics and a Breed album organized where all the members can add their own pictures. Then it'd make a good reference for anyone wondering what to call a color or a bird they have


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Oh wow I didn't even notice we had that already  But no I meant in the gallery section of the forum. We had the idea a while back to make a Color Genetics and a Breed album organized where all the members can add their own pictures. Then it'd make a good reference for anyone wondering what to call a color or a bird they have


I think we still need to do the photos in the new Gallery, MofE. Those truly wonderful pictures in the top level of Pigeon-Talk have been there for years .. granted, they don't "wear out", but none of us (me included) have the ability to add or update those any longer. We would need to ask the current site Admin's who have FTP rights to the site .. I don't have those. Thus, I think kinda starting over is a good idea .. JMO ..

Terry

PS: Did Mr. Layne Gardner from the LAPC ever get back to you?


----------



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Please correct #54 to a Danish Suabian. The spangled starling is also known as a Suabian occasionally, but the bird pictured is a Danish Suabian. I know, I imported the original ones. 

It's hard to keep some of the numbers straight, but the painted birds are Modern Spanish Thief Pouters.
The Silesian Swallows are better called Wing Pigeons.

# 09 is not a Pygmy, it's a Brunner Cropper - note that the legs are NOT slippered and they are straight, among other things.
#10 is a Blondinette (Oriental Frill) The Breed is Oriental Frill: the self colored birds are blondinettes, the shield marked, tail-marked ones are Satinettes.
#11 is a Blondinette The Breed is Oriental Frill: the self colored birds are blondinettes, the shield marked, tail-marked ones are Satinettes.
#12 is a Chinese Owl
#19 & 20 are Bokharas
#21 is 99.9% sure to be a Satinette (Oriental Frill)
#22 is a black Reversewing Cropper, not a Ghent.
#27 You're correct they are Old German Croppers
#39 and following are Muffed LFCL Tumblers
#42-43 English Trumpeters
#47 - I think Bill nailed this, looks to be a dominant opal Modena
#48 - very unusual color on the American Show Racer (i'm not even going to guess at the combination here)
#49 look to be Parlor Tumblers, but could be a few other things as well
#52 - Bill's correct, it's a yellow roller, but whether they're calling it a "flying" roller or a "show" roller is hard to determine here.
#55 Bill's correct, it is an Egyptian Swift
#57 African Owl
#76-77 Blondinette (Brown) The Breed is Oriental Frill: the self colored birds are blondinettes, the shield marked, tail-marked ones are Satinettes.
#78 is a Silesian Cropper and it's an Isabel (recessive red, pale, dominant opal) and gorgeous!
#88 - Fantail (There is NO such thing as an "American" fantail. There are Fantails; Indian Fantails, Syrian Fantails, but NO American. It doesn't exist.)


----------



## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Why do they feel the need to paint those birds? They're beautiful naturally.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The way I understand it, each person has their own pattern or colors they paint their birds, and it makes them easier to identify in the air.



Terry, nope, never heard from Mr. Gardner again. 
But I do have the breeds folders up under my name in the Member Categories section of the Gallery. So now anyone who wants to can post pictures of different breeds there


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Again, thank you everyone for the ID's on the birds .. just saw Frank's list! I have not had time to make the corrections, but I will get this done, and I'll then run the end result past the LAPC people just to be sure. Once we have it right, I'll start loading the photos into the album(s) that Becky has created. It may take us a good while to get there, but I'll bet we can come up with a pretty comprehensive gallery of pigeon breeds, colors, and feather patterns. 

Thanks to everyone who so freely shares their knowledge about such things .. I just go look, take pictures, and enjoy the shows. Hopefully I will make the Pageant of Pigeons, and we'll have a bunch more "eye candy" in the form of lovely pigeons to enjoy and ID.

Terry


----------



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

If you want "eye candy" - Thomas Hellmann will be there from Germany


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

bluecheck said:


> If you want "eye candy" - Thomas Hellmann will be there from Germany


LOL! I ASSume you are referring to the gorgeous photos that Mr. Hellmann takes of pigeons!  If Mr. Hellmann, himself, is eye candy .. well .. then I'll try to get some photos of him! 

Terry


----------



## Rosy (Sep 28, 2008)

*looks dilute*

Hard to tell from picture, but Oriental frill looks more like dilute black. At least my browns look browner. And it looks similar to my dilute blacks, which are kind of grayish looking


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

kien said:


> Hard to tell from picture, but Oriental frill looks more like dilute black. At least my browns look browner. And it looks similar to my dilute blacks, which are kind of grayish looking


Thanks for the post, Kien! I don't know enough about the genetics involved to comment, but welcome to Pigeon-Talk!

Terry


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> LOL! I ASSume you are referring to the gorgeous photos that Mr. Hellmann takes of pigeons!  If Mr. Hellmann, himself, is eye candy .. well .. then I'll try to get some photos of him!
> 
> Terry


 LOL....Terry, PLEASE do... if that is INDEED the case. 

The pictures of the birds....anyway....are outstanding.


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Indigo/andalusion Project*

* Numbers 4 and 5 are nest mates out of my Blue Check Indigo Racing Homer pair these youngsters are homozygous Indigo's. The one I am holding in pic#4 is carring another factor of which I am not sure. I thought that it might be reduced or faded. In any event I will be looking for a homozygous Black spread to mate to the homozygous Indigos this will lead to raising Andalusians that I think will be of a better grade color.The birds in 6,7,and 8 are American Show Racers they are also Indigos the parents of these are from a Andalusian cock mated to Black Velvet hen from this pair I have raised black velvet,blue check,andalusians and indigos. These are projects that I am working on.I will have pictures of these birds later,my son will be here in about 3 weeks and he will help me with the pictures. .GEORGE*


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi George*

Good to see you back. I missed you old buddy. Now that we have a genetic forum, I thought I'd see you all the time and you vanished. Anyway, great to see that you are still on the site. I know that the photo confusion was a problem for you and I had trouble dealing with it too. I still have trouble even loading them here but have figured out how to do it. It's confusing trying to jump from one site to the other and get them here.

The baby does look like it could be reduced indigo. I have a couple of them in rollers but I don't know what they looked like as babies as they were mostly done with their moult when I bought them. They are really nice looking birds. I have some babies now from indigoes and reduced birds but none are old enough to show what they really look like yet. I'm excited about it as I never had these genes before and they are truly beautiful birds.

Again, glad to see you back.

Bill


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Captions Updated ..*

http://www.rims.net/2008LAPCLawnShow .. we still have a few that are unknown or not definite .. I've asked for help with these on the LAPC site .. Please have another look and let's make sure we have all these right!

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Captions Updated Again ..*

I had a post from Bob Nolan of the LAPC to help us sort out the last few breeds that we weren't sure of. There is still some question about a couple of the birds/photos, but I think it's pretty close now. If you care to have another look, the photos are at http://www.rims.net/2008LAPCLawnShow

Terry


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Is 22 correct?
59 I believe that's a flock of **** Sapiens, sub-species Pigeon Fanciers. 
74 The sunlight really sets off that gorgeous fantail.
81 What a stunningly beautiful bird!


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TerriB said:


> Is 22 correct?
> 59 I believe that's a flock of **** Sapiens, sub-species Pigeon Fanciers.
> 74 The sunlight really sets off that gorgeous fantail.
> 81 What a stunningly beautiful bird!


Yes, 22 is correct according to a couple of expert show bird people, but a couple of members thought it was a Magpie or German or Ghent Pouter. I certainly don't know myself. What's your take on this bird?

You definitely have # 59 nailed! The blonde lady in blue that is facing the camera has some amazing birds. I can't recall how to spell her last name, but her first name is Tally, and from what I know she has been into show pigeons since she was a child.

Terry


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Re: #22 - didn't know there was such a breed as Reverse wing - who knew!


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*That's what I always knew them as*

I used to raise Reversewing Pouters and they are very beautiful birds. I think Frank had another name for them and he oughta know. Among breeders, back when I had them, they were always called Reversewing Pouters.

Bill


----------



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

The other name for them is just the German and it means Reversewing Cropper.


----------



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Tally's last name is Mezzanatto


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I remember that name*

Tally Mezzanatto has been around a long time. I never knew them but it was a name in APJ many years ago. Probably familiar to me because I raised several different Pouter breeds in the 70's and 80's. It was always fun to see who was winning shows and I often got caught up in buying their birds. Usually that worked out just fine.

Bill


----------

