# What is wild, and what is feral?



## Rrune (Jul 23, 2005)

Hi, 

I guess i am just too addicted to leave you all alone.  

I have a few questions. I keep reading posts that seem to indicate that there is a distinct difference between a wild pigeon and a feral pigeon. I know the true beginnings of the Rock Dove and their natural colorations, but from my understandings all of our "wild pigeons" are sort of decendants of those birds. They were once pets/foodsources/and stowaways to our lands. This is the reason for the coloration variations we see today. 

I would think that a pouter, homer or any other pure bred bird that escapes only to fend for itself is considered "feral"; whereas, a bird that has a questionable background and is thought of as a "run of the mill" is a wild pigeon. Am i right in my thinking? 

I was on the post regarding a white pigeon and someone mentioned that white is not a wild coloration and that it must be feral and would need intervention to survive. Yet here where i live and in most cities i have resided, white and combinations of white is a common occurance in wild flocks. Right now as i type my resident wild flock is in my backyard drinking and eating their hearts out, and 3 of them are the most gorgeous white combinations imaginable. One has the coloration identical to a seagull, which is why i named her "Seagull", and just within the past month she has produced a nearly white offspring. To me these are wild and do not need any assistance at all on my behalf. Granted they get unlimited food here, and a wonderful fountain to drink and bath in, but that is really all circumstantial because i freerange and feed my chickens in my yard. I enjoy having them here and especially enjoy watching thru the window while i am at my computer. Without my help they would still live here and still survive since they are wild regardless of color. 

Can anyone help me with this definition and thoughts on why it is thought that a white pigeon is not a natural part of the wild world of pigeons. I often think of wild domestic cats as feral, but they are still wild none the less. 

Huggs, ..Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 


I think the term feral denotes the descendants of any Creature formerly domesticated.

Where the term wild denotes those Creatures whose encestors were not domesticated.

Not all Columbia Liva of course were ever domesticated, but because some were, they are often spoken of as feral, at least in City contexts.

For all practical purposes of course, they are 'Wild'...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Excellent answer Phil! I'd been thinkin' on this one for a bit .. you got it! Thank you!

Terry


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*White pigeons everywhere*

I use to wonder about white pigeons too. But I have learned that many are escapees or lost white dove release pigeons which mix with the city flock. Then you get some pretty colors.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Great answer, Phil! And technically, a "wild" pigeon in any place, i.e. North America, where _Columba livia_ isn't native is feral, not wild. It would be harder to determine which birds were wild and which were feral in places like Europe where _Columba livia _ IS native. To the best of my knowledge our only living native pigeon here in the U.S. is the band-tailed pigeon.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> .... technically, a "wild" pigeon in any place, i.e. North America, where _Columba livia_ isn't native is feral, not wild. It would be harder to determine which birds were wild and which were feral in places like Europe where _Columba livia _ IS native. ....


That's a helpful point Birdmom4ever.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*So .. See the pic of the Band Tail Pigeon ..*

http://www.rims.net/2005Aug04/target9.html

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Great answer, Phil! And technically, a "wild" pigeon in any place, i.e. North America, where _Columba livia_ isn't native is feral, not wild. It would be harder to determine which birds were wild ae 'nd which were feral in places like Europe where _Columba livia _ IS natistatesve. To the best of my knowledge our only living native pigeon here in the U.S. is the band-tailed pigeon.



Hi Birdmom4ever,


Oh, okay...I was not aware of that aspect.

We did of course have the Passenger Pigeon at one time also, as 'native'.

Sparrows, and Starlings and C.Liva then, would be considered feral here in the
States, since they came here from elsewhere and are not Native...

That is the reasoning also behind electing those Birds for which one is supposed to have a Lisence to touch, aid or handle in any way - those which are 'Native' are 'protected', while those that are not, are not.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> http://www.rims.net/2005Aug04/target9.html
> 
> Terry


OK, so that's why the wildlife rehab groups ask if they're legs are yellow. 

Thanks


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Yep, they have the distinctive yellow legs. And I think band-tailed pigeons are protected. I don't know if they're actually endangered, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that they're on the watch list. 

Last summer my son and I were hiking in Santa Teresa Park and had the privilege of seeing a whole flock of band-tailed pigeons feeding on a large elderberry bush. Beautiful! I don't know much about old world species, but I wonder if our band-tailed pigeon and the wood pigeon are related? They look similar in photos I've seen. And our mourning doves look similar to ring-neck or collared doves.

Speaking of doves, I adopted a pure white ring-neck dove from the animal shelter yesterday and he's such a sweetheart. He's calm and friendly and will sit on my hand. I don't know how he ended up at the shelter, but he was obviously someone's pet at one time. I named him "Merlin" because he looks like a magician's dove.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Birdmom, 

Congratulations on your new dove, Merlin!  He sounds like a lovely bird indeed.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*Band tail & woodie*

The band tailed pigeon is indeed related to the woodpigeon, in that the band tail is classified as a new world species of wood pigeon, and both are Columba.

They are, as you've spotted, not dissimilar in appearance.

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hmmmm!

What is the range of the Band Tailed Pigeon here in the states?

I have certainly never seen one that I know of!



Phil
las vegas


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## mistenle (Feb 7, 2005)

Pigeons here are feral because they come from domestic stock but house sparrows and starlings are not considered feral but are an introduced species. 

We have bandtailed pigeons on Vancouver Island. They are very shy and hard to see because they are so timid. They are really pretty but you have to be really still and quiet to see one.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thank you, Brad.  And thank you John for clarifying. I wish I knew more about old world species. Should break down and buy some field guides for other countries...not that I travel, given the menagerie I have.  

I checked my bird guide and the band-tailed pigeon is a Western species. Looks like its year-round habitat is only on the west coast. The map shows it in Nevada, but it may only be found in certain places and/or at certain times of year. I've lived in this area my whole life and never saw one until about six years ago.


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