# Help Swollen crop



## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi All

I hope someone can help fast.

I've got a baby feral pigeon on my balcony. I've been supplementing her feeding. Now all of a sudden her crop has swollen up and there is a weezing noise. I fear it is somehow filling with air. Is there anything I can do to help her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Open her beak and see if there's anything that looks like little buttons of cheese. Also, spread her feathers over what you're thinking is the swelling and note whether it looks like food or more like cheese.

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

I've been supplementing the feeding of one of the baby feral pigeons on my balcony. She had a growth problem (like one sibling from each previous batch). The extra feeding seems to have helped a lot. She is now 19 days old but about the size of a 14 day old.

Today at lunch after I started feeding her I noticed her crop swell up. It was filling with air somehow. Every now and again there is a gurgled air escaping through water noise. I am quite concerned as her crop is huge, but she doesn't seem at all worried and is just crying for more food.

Is there anything I can do. Her crop almost looks like I could prick it with a pin and let the air out. Not that I'm going to, that's just what it looks like.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's not the crop--it's an embolism. That is, there is an air leak from the pneumatic system that's leaking out under the skin. You might call it an "air sac rupture" or something like that. Can you post a picture?

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

It is very difficult to open her mouth. Luckily she doesn't seem to be suffocating so she'll last awhile yet. Her Dad just came by and filled her even more with seeds. It's quietened her down. I can see now that her mouth is packed with seeds, but that wasn't the earlier problem. Is there anyway her crop can fill with air? Is food perhaps fermenting in there or is she somehow exhaling into her crop.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Could be also sour crop. I've seen this happen and it is very hard to treat, my vet wasn't able to save most of the babies with sour crop.
If that is what it is do not feed the baby. Not even water. You will have to start antibiotics and an antifungal. The problem is in sour crop the antibiotics aren't going anywhere because of the crop stasis, so best would be an injectable. This baby needs veterinary attention unless you have injectable antibiotics.
And of course bring the baby in put him on a heating pad covered with a towel and start antibiotics if you have. As much as he begs for food do not feed him.

Reti


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

sounds to me like she has a ruptured air sac as long as she is not having trouble breathing i would wait to see if it goes down on it own in a few days, if it doesn't it may need to be drained


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Remove the seeds from her mouth and as I mentioned bring her in. You can give a little water with a tiny bit of baking soda.

Reti


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sometimes, in hand feeding, with a syringe, the bird will take in air, and the crop will fill up with the air. This could be what is happening. If you try to push iit up and out, you could aspirate him/her if the food comes back up. It will usually work its way out by itself. How are you feeding the bird?

He said that it was appearing to be full of air after he fed it. That's why it sounds like it took in air. Posting a picture would be the most help. Kinda hard to guess at what it is without seeing it.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm trying to get a good picture but you really can't see anything as she won't keep still. It does sound like an air leak. What can I do? Basically the whole crop area is swollen, but there is definitely nothing in it


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

malfunctional said:


> I'm trying to get a good picture but you really can't see anything as she won't keep still. It does sound like an air leak. What can I do? Basically the whole crop area is swollen, but there is definitely nothing in it



Have you read the posts? Bring him in, keep him warm and do not feed.


Reti


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi

Thanks for all the feed back. I've been feeding her through a syringe as Jay mentioned. Yes, that is exactly what may have happened. I've cut the end off a syringe and she sticks her beak into it and I slowly start pushing the food in. The syringe got a little sticky today so I might of pushed it in in jerks which has caused this.

She is still begging for food and has just run across the computer for attention. She is definitely still alert and vibrant.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Yes I've just seen all the posts. It is nice and warm here. I've got her in my bedroom and she is still crying away. Poor Mom has just braved it all the way in her to come and have a look. Remember these are wild birds, so I don't want to interfere too much.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Does it look like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYv6...30BA5556F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

If yes, please do not do anything without checking back in here. I myself have fortunately so far have never had to deal with an air sack problem, but I am sure others here have. Please do as Reti has said for now.

Karyn


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Here is a close up of her


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

She just did a big poop and it was very bubbly. This is probably good news


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Kinda' hard to tell... but the lack of feathering under the chin (that's esophagus area--not the crop, which is technically further down) could indicate inflammation in that area (feathers have a tendency to either not grow or even drop out over inflammation). I'd be worried about canker and other possibilities. So far, we don't have the required information to make any definite diagnosis but the worst case scenario at this point based on that picture would be canker. Do you have access to anything like Metronidazole (Flagyl), Dimetridazole (Emtryl), Ronidazole (can't remember a trade name--old age), Carnidazole (Spartrix), or something like one of those?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

malfunctional said:


> She just did a big poop and it was very bubbly. This is probably good news


Not necessarily--post a picture!

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Not necessarily--post a picture!
> 
> Pidgey


Of the poop? It's brown, watery and had air in it. Looks nothing like that now.

Can't post any more pictures. My allocation is full and I have no idea how to delete old pics


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Answer the question regarding the medications.

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Kinda' hard to tell... but the lack of feathering under the chin (that's esophagus area--not the crop, which is technically further down) could indicate inflammation in that area (feathers have a tendency to either not grow or even drop out over inflammation). I'd be worried about canker and other possibilities. So far, we don't have the required information to make any definite diagnosis but the worst case scenario at this point based on that picture would be canker. Do you have access to anything like Metronidazole (Flagyl), Dimetridazole (Emtryl), Ronidazole (can't remember a trade name--old age), Carnidazole (Spartrix), or something like one of those?
> 
> Pidgey


Sorry, internet went down.
The area without feathers is definitely red and inflamed a little. I think this is mostly due to friction with the rough end of the syringe. I don't have any medication as these are just ferals.

The bald patch between the feathers has been there awhile. It is remnants from me over feeding her earlier, her skin kinda stretched.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Several of us on here have been through this more times than we can count. Trust me, you don't want to see that baby go through the final stages of upper esophageal canker. Where, basically, are you so that we can figure out how to get you those meds in time to save her?

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Just watching her now. The crop was nearly empty and it just appeared to fill up with air some how. It was like a wave, from the back to the front the feathers started sticking up as it filled.

Remember too that this little one definitely has some disease from the parents as she wasn't growing before I started feeding her. And from the previous two batches the same things has also happened. I don't know if this helps with the diagnosis.

Also being ferals there are usually bird louse on them and these tiny little red almost like dust mite type things.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Does sound like Canker (medical term: Trichomoniasis), which is caused by a flagellating protozoa (Trichomonads). Yes, it can cause air leakages, as well.

Cape Town... South Africa?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, "aerophagia" (you can search on that) is the term for chicks not getting enough food down due to swallowing too much air, usually because the person feeding them isn't giving them the actual food fast enough for them to gulp it down without taking in gobs of air.

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Sounds about right. Yes I'm in Cape Town.

She isn't lying down any more and is sleeping standing up, perhaps to not put pressure on it. Her one eye seems a little glazed over too. Poor little girl.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you know any pigeon folks in Cape Town?

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Cape Town, South Africa that is. I've also noticed that when her neck is forward there seems like a little bit of a bubble under the skin behind her neck. This has been there for a week or so, but is not always there. 

Besides getting her all sorts of medicine, what can I do? I'm only here for another week before I'm moving house anyway.

Should I stop feeding her. Now that I think about it, for the last couple of days she hasn't been so keen on food. Yesterday I mixed in some seeds and I thought that was the reason, but perhaps the pain has been getting to much for her.

Thinking back on my last few pigeons that have probably had the same thing, they have all been in pain, they just don't really show it well for someone that doesn't read pigeon.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sometimes, medications are the only thing that works. You might be able to get some from an aquarium or pet store--try calling around for "Metronidazole".

Pidgey


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Hmmm, so much for not feeding the baby. Dad just came past, found her in the box inside, jumped in a fed her and left. She's been pooping more. Basically just liquid and air in the poops


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Did you ever open up the beak and look inside for cheesy buttons?

Pidgey


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

I can send you medication, PM me your contact details.
Problem is that once you start medicating, either you need to take baby in and stop parents from feeding him or medicate parents too.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

*Swollen Crop*

Medicine is on it's way. Thanks so much Plamenh
Next is to figure out how to get wild pigeons to take medicine...
Basically I'd like to leave the baby still in the parent's care so that they can teach it the ways of the world. If it is now possible to give to the parents though, I guess I'll have to take her inside.

Here is another picture (I figured out how to delete old ones) of the baby from this morning right after feeding. Her crop is swollen all around her neck. Still no traces of cheesy growths.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

You should receive medicines on Monday, they couldn't deliver them today.
I did sent you full set with dosages.
This picture looks as airsac rupture and I would use the pills marked for respiratory infections. Give him 1/2 pill twice a day.
You can still give him one Spartrix pill.


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*penicillin/sick baby*



malfunctional said:


> Sorry, internet went down.
> The area without feathers is definitely red and inflamed a little. I think this is mostly due to friction with the rough end of the syringe. I don't have any medication as these are just ferals.
> 
> The bald patch between the feathers has been there awhile. It is remnants from me over feeding her earlier, her skin kinda stretched.


do you have any penicillin/amoxicillin,clavamox,,if so-you are in business...use a one cc syringe/grind up/disolve the penicillin in water/30ml bottle/pinch of sugar/do the math/give about 50 mg of med in syringe..sincerely james waller,possible canker,pvm


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

plamenh said:


> You should receive medicines on Monday, they couldn't deliver them today.
> I did sent you full set with dosages.
> This picture looks as airsac rupture and I would use the pills marked for respiratory infections. Give him 1/2 pill twice a day.
> You can still give him one Spartrix pill.


Monday is perfect. Thanks so much. Little Susan will definitely appreciate it.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Little Susan has taken a turn for the worst. When I got up this morning she was looking cold and lifeless in her nest. She is still alive but totally limp and cold.

I've brought her inside and am warming her up slowly. I hope it helps. I've put her in as much a normal pigeon resting position as possible, but her head won't stay up. It wasn't cold last night and usually she is fine outside.

Hopefully she pulls through this.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

She is just lying there, neck twisted around and lymp sort of as if she is trying to break her own neck. She is swallowing, or at least seems like she had to open her mouth every time she breaths. Her beak is filled and is messy. Perhaps it is seeds, perhaps it is the canker. I can't tell. Very sad at the moment...

It is definitely the canker. I should have seen this before. There are little globules all over her mouth. Shame her little Susan.

Do they breath through those little holes on their beak? I'm trying to work out why she needs to open her mouth so wide to breath.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

This is bad situation, she will not manage without help.
If the mouth is full with canker, she has problem breathing.
The opening at the basee of the tongue is thachea, keep it clean of obstructions. If need be clean it with q-tip moistured in water.

Try phone this number and see if they have Spartrix.

*Springbok Pharmacy*
468 Lansdowne Rd
Lansdowne
Cape Town
7780

Our phone numbers are : 
021 6961532 and
021 6961242

Keep Susan warm on the heating pad.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Thanks for all the help. She didn't make it. She only lasted a few minutes after I wrote that. Very sad.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

I will try and treat all my ferals somehow, so that this doesn't happen again.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Sorry for Susan, sometime things are out of our abilities to help.
No point to treat all the ferals. Usually they have build immunity and parasites will not create problem. If you treat them, you will weaken their immune system and create disbalance.
I did mention that you should treat parents too if they feed baby because they will reinfect it. Baby had already compromised immune system and contact with parents would complicate treatment. In this situations one need to take risk to be able to help.
With feral birds is like catch 22. Keep medicines for emergencies and birds that are really sick. I would use probiotics in drinking water, garlic and ACV instead.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Thanks Plamenh
Yes it is definitely something to do with the parents. From the last 3 batches one of the pigeons in each case has struggled. 

The water idea is good. I've only seen the youngsters drink though. The parents don't seem to use it. Well not when I'm watching.

So if the parents are infecting the babies, how do we stop this happening in the future? I can't take the babies in as they need their parents. Do you have a suggestion?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Garlic and ACV are natural inhibitors for Trichomonas. They do not destroy them but reduce their number by creating unfriendly environment for parasites reproduction. If you leave feed for parents on the balcony, they will drink after feeding. The healthier are the parents, the healthier will be the babies.
Probiotics, Cinnamon tea mixed in their water (not to strong) as well as couple of drops of Coloidal silver are also helpful.

From time to time you will still have weak and stressed birds with illness, you can't avoid it, but you can reduce their number. Really ill birds you could quarantine, treat with medicines, soft release them after recovery.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh no, poor little baby, rip in peace little baby


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can treat the flock as best you can by mixing a small bit of olive oil into 2 pounds of seed, to which you add 2 teaspoons of 20% Metronidazole. Feed this for 5 days. Treating them is not going to hurt their immune system, just knock down the number of trichomonads.


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