# Best Bloodline Out There



## THE GENERAL'S LOFT (May 11, 2011)

I was wondering what you guys think is the best bloodline out there and what bloodline do you prefer to cross for the best middle distance racing...


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

You may not know it but you just fired the first shot at the OK corral. 

Staff Van Reets pure or mixed for up to 350 miles. 

Jansens both pure and mixed up to about 300 miles.

Just brought in some German Jansen blood that is mixing realy well with my oler blood Jansens. I intend to bred the best of the younsters back into both lines and end up with basically three lines of Jansen blood. 

no matter how they are crossed out the only ones that make it back into the breeding program are the very best overall fliers, not just the one time wonders but the birds that can go week in and week out and are always one of the first birds back into the loft.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

The best blood is the blood in the pigeon that wins. Period.

After much beating my head on my desk over this (Mr Smith, I promise that thread on new guy views and changes) I have come to the conclusion that the names attached to a line are of no more value than the names attached to the colors of a bird. At the end of the day, if the bird wins *consistently* it is from good blood line. 

That said, when we get buy birds it will be from breeders whose reputation I trust. Since the relationship will be based on trust the linage of the pigeon will be of less concern to me than finding someone who understand that unique needs of our race course and climate. That will make sure that I get good blood.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think the question might be better, What are your best birds down from. That might give you a better feel for what bloodlines are best. Most birds out there are some mix of bloodlines. I would say I only have one pure-bred bird or pure bloodline bird so to speak. Her four grandparents are out of the Janssen loft. She breed winners. She is bred to a Vic Miller bird (mainly Janssen based). My other good foundation birds are Bob Kinney (Janssen x Gordon), a Flor Engels bird and Houben x Janssen. Good stock comes in all bloodlines. Most go back to Janssen birds. Breed from birds that win, that is the best bloodline.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think the question might be better, What are your best birds down from. That might give you a better feel for what bloodlines are best. Most birds out there are some mix of bloodlines. I would say I only have one pure-bred bird or pure bloodline bird so to speak. Her four grandparents are out of the Janssen loft. She breed winners. She is bred to a Vic Miller bird (mainly Janssen based). My other good foundation birds are Bob Kinney (Janssen x Gordon), a Flor Engels bird and Houben x Janssen. Good stock comes in all bloodlines. Most go back to Janssen birds. Breed from birds that win, that is the best bloodline.


 THis is what the janssen brothers did as well so follow what they did and you will have your answers . Best of the best bred to the best will breed you birds that will help your selcetion of getting to where you want to go .


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If you are looking for the best we need statistical data. Unfortunately we don't have one that is tabulated. I have no intention of looking at the database of middle distance competitions and figure out which bloodlines they are. Also it may be possible that the best middle distance birds in America might not be the same bloodline compared to other countries. 

Anyone tabulated any data from past competitions showing bloodlines? Maybe someone can start from here:http://www.pigeon.org/specialawards.htm


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

RodSD said:


> If you are looking for the best we need statistical data. Unfortunately we don't have one that is tabulated. I have no intention of looking at the database of middle distance competitions and figure out which bloodlines they are. Also it may be possible that the best middle distance birds in America might not be the same bloodline compared to other countries.
> 
> Anyone tabulated any data from past competitions showing bloodlines? Maybe someone can start from here:http://www.pigeon.org/specialawards.htm


 One of the major flaws in trying to arrive at what is the "Best Bloodline" is the fact that a fancier that is trying to duplicate a champion loft's winning ways by acquiring a bloodline from that Champion loft, is that the bloodline does not typically come with an actual loft, or loft location, or system, or fancier, or all the different things which make a winner. 

Furthermore, what further complicates the data, is that once a fancier reaches a certain status inside the racing community, any bird that the star fancier owns, is then named after that star fancier. The bird could be a complete cross, or only related by way of a grand parent and will still carry the star fanciers name. Then to make things even more complicated, some of these birds can fall into weak hands perhaps for many generations, and yet they will still bear the name of the famous fancier who in extreme cases, may have died decades earlier. 

After it is all said and done, and we hold such a discussion as to which one is the "best". Which I suspect will be as definitive as a discussion on which genetic line of thoroughbred horses are the "best". It is all rather academic anyway, because at the end of the day, it is not the name of a particular bloodline which one owns which counts, it is the actual individual pigeon and it's quality, which will determine the potential success one might have, assuming all the other factors such as loft, management, location, etc. falls into place.

I am sure that if one would look hard enough, one could find very typical pigeons in every "Best" strain mentioned in this thread so far, as well as some that the original breeders would consider very low quality culls. And I am sure if we visited enough lofts in the country (wherever that might be) we could find some extremely high quality exceptional type pigeons which don't really have a name or label, or if they do, they are unknown to most, at least for the moment.

So, bottom line, I am thinking it is an exercise in futility. It reminds me of the "debates" that the "motorheads" in high school would have when I was a kid, of which was better ? A Chevy or a Ford ?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> One of the major flaws in trying to arrive at what is the "Best Bloodline" is the fact that a fancier that is trying to duplicate a champion loft's winning ways by acquiring a bloodline from that Champion loft, is that the bloodline does not typically come with an actual loft, or loft location, or system, or fancier, or all the different things which make a winner.
> 
> Furthermore, what further complicates the data, is that once a fancier reaches a certain status inside the racing community, any bird that the star fancier owns, is then named after that star fancier. The bird could be a complete cross, or only related by way of a grand parent and will still carry the star fanciers name. Then to make things even more complicated, some of these birds can fall into weak hands perhaps for many generations, and yet they will still bear the name of the famous fancier who in extreme cases, may have died decades earlier.
> 
> ...


Warren every time you post something it always(most of the time) alot 
but for some reason i end up reading everything lol
wish i was like that when i read a book


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Even when you look into a strain or name you will find a common thread. Usually a single bird or pair that is the foundation for the name. The bird or pair is usually not what it appears. Many times it is not from the strain or family at all, but a cross of a few families of birds. For example the De Rauw Sablon birds are the ticket right now. The bird that is responsible for most of the success is "Freddy" crossed in with the blood. Freddy is a Vandenheede bird. The best race birds to find there best and cross them with others best to make better. If they are good enough they have a "strain" or "family". These are the birds you want and as close to the "Mutt" foundation birds that made the strain.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

THE GENERAL'S LOFT said:


> I was wondering what you guys think is the best bloodline out there and what bloodline do you prefer to cross for the best middle distance racing...


Today if you took the hardest middle distance race in the country whether club or futurity, took the top 10 birds and looked at their pedigrees, that they would all be different. Most will go back to Janssen based birds, and some will not even have pedigrees. Many will be the hot breeds today from the big guys. Why, they are the ones that have the bucks to enter the races. Chances are that if your club is like mine, you could go to the best fliers, pick up a few off his best and end up with birds just as good as anything in the country. Some might even have pretty pedigrees. Our best young bird flier this year has stock that rivals a Pipa auction. If I had deep pockets, I would pick any successful flier in Belg or NL or the best in the US, buy a team of summer youngsters and found a loft. I really would not care about the lineage, just the results. Breed best to best and call them what you want.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> One of the major flaws in trying to arrive at what is the "Best Bloodline" is the fact that a fancier that is trying to duplicate a champion loft's winning ways by acquiring a bloodline from that Champion loft, is that the bloodline does not typically come with an actual loft, or loft location, or system, or fancier, or all the different things which make a winner.


Here is a link that is worth reading ... especially for the new to the sport as the old pros are set in their ways.

http://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/2...on-racing-method/comment-page-1/#comment-9317

enjoy and take it to heart.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Warren hit the nail on the head....You can purchase a champions pigeons,but you cannot purchase the champion(human)...The man who runs the loft is not for sale......Alamo


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