# Hawk threats



## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I just want everyone out there to know and appreciate the threats we have against our birds. The first is the biggest threat durring tje winter months, when the trees are bare. The coopers hawk is sneaky and cat-like. for our brothers to the north, might be the goshawk. The sharp shinnrd hawk is the smallest of the accipiters, and is too small to take a full grown pigeon. Next threat is the redtail, a very opertunistic feeder. Watch tour birds while trapping. This buteo will dine and dash if he has the chance. Usually we have a chance against redtails, we can see them coming! Next is the falcon which uses speed to catch their prey. A falcons advantage comes only if he is above your flock. Unless you live in the upper northern hemisphere, you dont have to worry about the gyr falcon --- the only bird of prey, able to out fly a racing bird in level flight! These three pictures show the three----


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I so wish they didn't eat pigeons, but darn are they beautiful and that last one is sooo cute! great pics!


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

the first 2 will knock you out! The third will help you out!


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

maykuhn loft said:


> the first 2 will knock you out! The third will help you out!



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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I saw a beautiful sight yesturday morning that pissed me off. I hawk sitting on my trap looking in on my birds. It was like your first picture, is that the cooper? I'm in lock down but it was a beautiful bird.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

A kestrel is no threat to us.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2009)

Big T said:


> I saw a beautiful sight yesturday morning that pissed me off. I hawk sitting on my trap looking in on my birds. It was like your first picture, is that the cooper? I'm in lock down but it was a beautiful bird.


yes the first is the worst enemy of your pigeons known as the coopers as grim said about the 3rd pic a kestrel may give your birds chase but is really to small to take down your birds ..oh and about the sharpshinned hawks, they can and will take your birds if they are around they are very able to take a pigeon down without a problem ,they look exactly like a cooper but are a little smaller in size 
coopers






sharp shinned


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm about to turn my OB's loose after them being on lock down the month of Jan. A hawk got one of my 2003 hens, so I kept them locked up. We start racing next month, so they've GOT to get out.......we'll see what happens I guess. 
I may be crying the blues later today.  But I hope not.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I started letting mine out a couple of weeks ago.So far i have lost 3.One of my white birds, the hawk took her off the roof of my loft while I WAS out side knocked her down right in front of me I chased him off but the bird and the hawk flew off in the same direction with the hawk right on her tail.She never came back.The other 2 all I saw was the pile of feathers and left overs.The last time I let them out the hawk made a run at them but never really got close also the crows have been around latley so that helps.My problems are with coopers!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I just called the birds in and there's 26 so no casualties today. Far as I know, there wasn't even a hawk seen in the yard today.


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

I guess I have been lucky. Except for very bad weather, I loft fly my birds every afternoon around 4PM. They stay our for about an hour and then they trapp. I am standing almost in front of the trap while they are landing. (There are hawks around)

George


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

George, I think some of us just don't have the hawk problems that others do. I know that I don't. Pisses me off every time a hawk gets one of my birds, but considering it's only happened a half dozen times in 7 years......I can't complain. I know they're around here too. I see my birds all run in the loft a few times a day and I know something is out there. Just, most of the time, they don't bother my birds while they're out.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Well wouldn't ya know it! I come home from work today and there IS A COOPER HAWK IN THE LOFT! First let me say no birds were killed, now let me try to explain why.My loft is upstairs over my garage.The bottom has 1 side open( I park my popup camper in there) the other side has a garage door on it.The hawk did not go thru the traps because if he would have he would have been trapped in the section he went in.upstairs only half is really loft so I have wire covering half.So this is the only way I can explain he went in the open section on the bottom then went thru the divider on the bottom that has a gap of about 1 ft.(I fixed that tonight)Then went up thru the floor opening that is about 3 ft by 3ft with a ladder in it.once up there he could not get the birds because of the wire that did not stop him from scaring the crap out my birds.I have no idea how long he was up there of course they all were up against the avaries facing the other way.Some were on eggs so they were not covered for awhile I hope they are not runied.It took a good while be for things clamed down and they got back on the eggs!I can not beleive how smart that hawk was! Well he want get back in that way again! I just hope the eggs are good and they dont figure out how to get theu the trap that has happened to me before. Jeff


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey lucky maybe that experience will build your birds fear up about the hawk even more so next time they will be even more prepared.....?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

luckyloft said:


> Well wouldn't ya know it! I come home from work today and there IS A COOPER HAWK IN THE LOFT! First let me say no birds were killed, now let me try to explain why.My loft is upstairs over my garage.The bottom has 1 side open( I park my popup camper in there) the other side has a garage door on it.The hawk did not go thru the traps because if he would have he would have been trapped in the section he went in.upstairs only half is really loft so I have wire covering half.So this is the only way I can explain he went in the open section on the bottom then went thru the divider on the bottom that has a gap of about 1 ft.(I fixed that tonight)Then went up thru the floor opening that is about 3 ft by 3ft with a ladder in it.once up there he could not get the birds because of the wire that did not stop him from scaring the crap out my birds.I have no idea how long he was up there of course they all were up against the avaries facing the other way.Some were on eggs so they were not covered for awhile I hope they are not runied.It took a good while be for things clamed down and they got back on the eggs!I can not beleive how smart that hawk was! Well he want get back in that way again! I just hope the eggs are good and they dont figure out how to get theu the trap that has happened to me before. Jeff


OMG.........I would have died..........glad it couldn't get any birds. It was prisoners that were being scared, right? I've heard of hawks getting in lofts and the next time the birds were turned loose, they refused to trap back in. They don't forget very quickly. 
Hows the cock bird doing?


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Luckily for me, hawks are only a problem from March to May. Once my young birds can loft fly for an hour, the hawks tend not to come around as much. I like to call my birds in as soon as I can, so the hawks don't get time to mount an attack.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Grim said:


> A kestrel is no threat to us.


Yea I know. I didnt have any pictures of any of the larger falcons in my area. I took all of these pictures from my yard and down the street.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Wow! Those are awesome pictures and they are beautiful birds! Every time I see those I feel like I want to have pets like that, but then I remember the many pigeons that got killed with their hands and I am at pain again. It is as if I am in the middle of a rubber band being pulled on both sides of love and hate.

Last year my total loss was about 1/3 of my total number of pigeons. The hawks got 3 for every 9 pigeons I have.

Nevertheless, that was talented photography if I may add.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I let my birds out today because they seems fine after the hawk episode yesterday, all came back in but one and you guessed it a hawk was after him.Not the same hawk ,The pigeon was holding his on so I hope he makes it back soon!Renee the cock bird is doing fine hes already showing off and making himself known.Ive introduced him to a hen and he is very interested! jeff


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

luckyloft,

In my experience if a hawk attacks my birds today and not successful it will come back the next day to try again so I lock down. I proved this to myself by waiting for that hawk at that particular time I released my bird and usually the hawk is waiting there somewhere. It usually goes away after that. It is a battle of wit and timing.

I hope your bird makes it. If the bird doesn't come back in the next 1 or 4 days, it probably got injured/eaten. Sometimes they will spend one night, then they return. I call that "hiding."


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

We mostly have problems with Coopers, since they live in the woods. Sharp shins are a problem too, if the Coopers don't run them off first. Sharp shins can kill pigeons, especially the smaller ones, but they won't be able to carry it off. They look like clones of Coopers as you can see, but one key difference is Coopers have rounded tails and Sharp Shins have wedge or squared off tails. 
Red tails aren't so much of a problem since they have a very hard time catching anything unless they're in a field with enough room to attack and escape. We've also got some Red shouldered hawks.

Healthy, fit, adult racing pigeons can out fly any hawks or falcons if they see them first, except peregrines in a dive. Racing pigeons are among the fastest in level flight. Swifts and ducks are some of the other fastest. I'm pretty sure ducks cruise around 60+ mph and Swifts can exceed 100 mph. 
The good thing about falcons is, they generally don't attack anything that is at rest. They prefer to hunt in the air.

We haven't had a lot of hawk problems lately. A few bantams are missing, but otherwise, the pigeons are fine.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Well, I have a hawk problem. This morning I had four flying in circles around my house. Two, were the cooper and its mate that was sitting on my trap the other day, the other two were a little smaller and flew higher except when they wanted to pick on the coopers. I was working in the yard all day and I kept seeing one or another hawk flying overhead. I'm in lockdown for a while.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2009)

it doesnt matter how long you are on lockdown they are out there waiting for the opportunity to take a bird when they can ..just cuz you dont see them doesnt mean they arent around as they are so stealthy and use the cover of trees and forestry to their advantage so even when you dont see them its just a matter of time before they come out and attack your birds as they take off or land on your loft ...and as for perigrines they will take your birds by any means no matter if your birds are in a tree or on the wing , been there done that theres no protection from a perigrine falcon they are just what they say, masters of the airways and a killing machine.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

That may be true, But the meal will not be coming from the Gordon house for a while. I will use this time to trap train the young birds and if food does not come for a week or two then maybe the Hawks will hunt another area of their territory. I will also shorten the fly time and days my birds fly after my lockdown, four hawks is too much for any homer to handle.


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## Cobie (Feb 8, 2009)

Here`s one that happened a few years ago, It was just before old bird season started, it rained almost every day, I was running late coming home from work the Sky's cleared up and I wanted to let them out and feed them, I opened the door and let them all out ,this one cock would not go, I pushed him out and he was climbing up and low and behold, a hawk was diving down right at him, Well the two of them collided head on, the pigeon got control first and went up, the hawk was right on its tale. They went up so high that they were little dots in the sky, Well ! that's it for him,. About half an hour later the other birds came in to eat, I was looking around and here comes that cock bird with the hawk right in back of him , He went through the bobs so fast that the hawk hit the wire screen head on and was stopped dead right their by the landing board . I learned something that day, look around before letting them out, If you don't see any wild birds flying around , DON`T LET THE PIGEONS OUT.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

The Coopers and if you have them peregrenes are number one. during migration the goshawks are real good at catching pigeons. Sharpshins not at all.
and if a Redtail catches them, the birds were WAY to young to be let out!
A red tail has NO chance of catching any pigeon that is old enough to be let out of the loft. Dave.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Cobie you are right! watch the song birds doves ect. I do not always follow that rule because there are WEEKS that the doves, songbirds ect. are gone from our area. Dave


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> The Coopers and if you have them peregrenes are number one. during migration the goshawks are real good at catching pigeons. Sharpshins not at all.
> and if a Redtail catches them, the birds were WAY to young to be let out!
> A red tail has NO chance of catching any pigeon that is old enough to be let out of the loft. Dave.


 here I have lost a couple birds to the sharpies so I know first hand they can take a pigeon down and they are very quick in the air .. as for the goshawks Im just glad that we dont have them here ,I think we have enuf variety already lol


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

They must have been real young, around here the sharpshin only take sparrows and such. Dave JMHO


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Some sharp-shinned have the same size as smaller, younger cooper.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Funny this thread is active right now as I was getting ready to send a warning to drop trap users. I had a cooper get in the loft thru the drop trap and kill and eat one of my best OB hens yesterday.  He managed to somehow get back out while I ran to the garage to get the net. If you are using a drop style trap do not turn your back for a second as the hawks will follow the birds in. We are currently looking at our options to deter this from happening again!!
Ken


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Hey that was my 200th post. I made it to senior bird.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

whitesnmore said:


> Funny this thread is active right now as I was getting ready to send a warning to drop trap users. I had a cooper get in the loft thru the drop trap and kill and eat one of my best OB hens yesterday.  He managed to somehow get back out while I ran to the garage to get the net. If you are using a drop style trap do not turn your back for a second as the hawks will follow the birds in. We are currently looking at our options to deter this from happening again!!
> Ken


That is a scary story!....


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Actually, unless my reading and experience are off, all birds that are fed by their parents are FULL grown when they leave the nest, and most studies show they loose weight after leaving the nest. It is natures way of helping them get through the weaning period, and learning how to hunt. 
I am sure a Sharpshined can take a pigeon, but it would have to be a very mature and experienced one, not a young one, and the bird caught was a squeek,one that was way to young to be settled, (I.E still had down on it's head.) That is just my experience mind you, and i am not saying you are wrong.
I have sharpshinneds hunting sparrows 30feet from my loft in the evergreens, and i have never witnessed them going after the pigeons.
Just a side note, pigeon fliers have become spoiled by the declined population of birds of prey during the the seventies, eighties, and into the early nineties,due to the drop in population in birds of prey because of DDT poisoning, and lack of habitat, ect. The population we see now is a normal one, and not some kind of oddity of nature. As always in nature, you feed them and they will come! Dave


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> Actually, unless my reading and experience are off, all birds that are fed by their parents are FULL grown when they leave the nest, and most studies show they loose weight after leaving the nest. It is natures way of helping them get through the weaning period, and learning how to hunt.
> I am sure a Sharpshined can take a pigeon, but it would have to be a very mature and experienced one, not a young one, and the bird caught was a squeek,one that was way to young to be settled, (I.E still had down on it's head.) That is just my experience mind you, and i am not saying you are wrong.


 I can garentee you that it was an adult sharpy that took my bird and that also my pigeon was an adult bird when it was taken in mid winter ..was prolly the only bird I lost to a sharpie but that doesnt stop them from trying to attack my birds when they are around ..
here is also a link on sharp shinned hawks in which it states they do like to feast on domestic pigeons when they can .. http://www.birdsbybent.com/ch61-70/shshhawk.html

Food.--Dr. A. K. Fisher (1893) gives a long list of food of the sharp-shinned hawk and then summarizes it, as follows: "Of 159 stomachs examined, 6 contained poultry or game birds; 99, other birds; 6, mice; 5, insects; and 52 were empty." It is especially fond of young chickens and domestic pigeons, and will make frequent raids on the poultry yard, as long as the supply lasts, or until a charge of shot puts an end to it.The larger females are strong enough to carry off a half-grown chicken or an adult pigeon. Herbert L. Stoddard (1931) has seen one carry off a full-grown bobwhite; and other quails are easy prey for it. R. B. Simpson (1911) has seen it pick a red squirrel off a limb and "fly heavily away with its struggling victim, holding it down as far away from its body as possible." He also saw one attack a pileated woodpecker, which was dodging around a tree trunk and screaming; the hawk's career was promptly ended by a charge of shot. C. J. Maynard (1896) relates the following: 

These small Hawks are very bold and will not hesitate to attack birds which are larger than themselves, and I once saw one strike down a fully grown Night Heron that chanced to be abroad by day. The Heron was flying from one island to another across some marshes, when the Hawk darted out of a neighboring wood and pounced upon him. The force of the shock was so great that the slowly moving Heron fell to the ground at once but, fortunately for him, in falling, he gave vent to one of those discordant squarks which only a bird of this species is capable of uttering, and which so astonished and frightened the Hawk, that it completely forgot to take advantage of its prostrate prey, but darted away; while the Heron regained its feet, shook itself, and mounting in air, flew wildly into the nearest thicket. 

The bill of fare of this hawk also includes a few mice, young rabbits, shrews, bats, frogs, lizards, locusts, grasshoppers, crickets, caterpillars, large moths, butterflies, and beetles. But birds are its principal food, among which the following have been recorded: doves, woodpeckers, swifts, flycatchers, horned larks, sandpipers, cowbirds, orioles, blackbirds, grackles, jays, meadowlarks, many sparrows, towhees, vireos, many warblers, mockingbirds, thrashers, catbirds, wrens, nuthatches, chickadees, creepers, kinglets, robins, thrushes, and bluebirds.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Lokota, as i stated in "MY" experience. Were i live i see them on almost a weekly basis, and i have only seen them hit smaller prey. my opinion was it must have been a young bird, that's all. and it was not, sorry.
Do you have cooper's problems in your area, as well as the sharpshinned?
Dave


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2009)

Hey Lucky just was stating my experiances as well and some of those sharpies are good at killing thou it doesnt happen often thankgod  and as far as those coopers go yes I cant seem to ever shake them anytime of year thou summer months arent that bad ...winters they are here everyday and I have this demon of a female that proves to be relentless everytime she appears  the funny thing is she will grab a pigeon from right in front of me with out a care ,but if I ever have my camera out I can never get a picture of her no matter how hard I try


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

You are on the money on the camera issue! i never can get a pic. of them after my birds! LOL! Dave


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*red tail hawk*

This time I had the camera,it is not the best pic but I got it, even though none of my birds are out, this girl has been watching my wild bird feeder for weeks. I am hoping in the spring she will move along.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That bird is definitely waiting eagerly!


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*hawks*



RodSD said:


> That bird is definitely waiting eagerly!



He sure does, I have not seen any kills yet but it seems to be his area now.
Today for the first time I seen my first cooper while walking the fence row to see what trees to cut for fire wood. It came in from the property next to me, landed on a branch above me long enough to get a good look and gone just as fast, this one might be a little harder to get the pic.>Kevin


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