# bully pigeon



## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

i have an older brown and white pigeon and he mated with my only female and every time he see my other male he will charge at him at make like a growling noise why is this is he trying to tell the other pigeon that the female belongs to him should i seperate them or wut 

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luke


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## gaz (Mar 26, 2001)

to be fear you need moor female .birds


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

wut????????????

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luke


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

What he's saying is, would you want to be in a situation where there's one guy, one girl and they're together--then there's you? Just you... The other male needs a lady. The four will pair up and life will go on...

--Ray


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

oh well my little brother jamison is getting an indian fantail from pigeon raiser off here it is gonna be a female and we are hoping to breed it with my odd male pigeon if a fantail and homer breed will the babys be fantails or homers?

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luke


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Yes.









--Ray


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

yes they will be homers or yes they will be fantails

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luke


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

The answer is "yes" to both questions, Luke.

--Ray 

[This message has been edited by raynjudy (edited 03-29-2001).]


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

wut?

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luke


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## Gordmeister (Mar 31, 2001)

Luke,

The offspring of the homer and fantail will be a crossbreed, neither homer or fantail because it (the offspring) will not breed true to either breed. In fact, it probably will not breed true to itself; that is, its offspring, even if mated to another half homer-half fantail most likely will not breed true. By not breeding true I mean that the offspring will not necessarily resemble the parents, and there may be throwbacks to either original breed, which may look more like a homer or more like a fantail than the 50%-50% parents. In effect, what the offspring will be the equivalent to a mongrel, which results when two different breds of purbred dogs interbreed. Sometimes inter-breeding can result in a new breed, which means that the offspring of two similarly interbred parents may breed true, but this rarely, if ever, occurs as a result of one simple crossbreeding of two different types of purebreds.

Sometimes it may be beneficial to allow an interbreeding, but this does not result in a new breed because the ofspring will not breed true. It may, however be beneficial to strengthen the offspring, healthwise and even for increasing size of the offspring. I noticed that this happened from the accidental crossbreeding of a male white carneau and a female white king. The several sets of offspring from this pair were slightly larger and heavier than the other white carneaus that I had, but about the same size as the only pair of kings I had. The larger size may have resulted merely because of the mixing "new bloodlines in dirds that I suspect as suffered some denigration from too much inbreeding. The larger size also may merely have been a reflection of kings being a slightly heavier breed than carneaus (I do not know for certain whether kings are a heavier breed than carneaus).

Generally, it is not a good idea to crossbreed, unless the resulting offspring are for personal use, say for eating, or simply for the enjoyment of experimentation. When I was about 9 years old I had two male homers that mated with two female"drummers"or trumpeters. One pair had one offspring that had the coloring of the homer, feathers on the feet like the trumpeter, but no top-knot like a trumpeter. That offspring made a good meal, but it had no breeding value, and that is the case with most crossbreeds.

Sometimes a crossbreed is allowed to breed back to a purebred kind like of its parents. If this breeding back to purebreeds of that same kind continues for several generations, characteristics of the other purebred involved in the original crossbreeding may virtually disappear. Nevertheless, the bloodline of that flock of purebreds will none be genetically contaminated. Those birds carrying the genes of the purebred kind not involved in the breeding of subsequent generations may still have offspring that are throwbacks or that have characteristics different from either of the two kinds of purebreds that originally interbred. If careful records are not kept or the identity of the birds carrying the genes of the other "breed" cannot be identified, the purebred status of the entire flock has been destroyed. 

It should be noted that the wild pigeons we see in our cities and fields are descended from many kinds of purebred domestic birds. As these breeds interbred the characteristics of their offspring reverted back to those of the original ancesters of the domestic purebred breeds, the "blue rock dove" of Egypt. The many breeds we have today were developed through careful selective breeding and experimentation with various combinations of inter-breeding. When the resulting offspring possessed the sought-after characteristics or some set of very desireable characteristics, some similar but some distinctly different from their forebears, and the offspring bred true, (that is,they and their offspring consistently produced offspring that resembled their parents, with their new distinctive characteristics), a new breed was established. Members of new breed were no longer merely a group of crossbreeds, but purebreds that would pass on their distinctive characteristics to their young.

Sorry for the length of this reply, but I hope it persuades you to acquire appropriate partners of the same kind for your fantail and homer. 

Gordmeister


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

oh u mean it could have the big feathers but have the coloring of a homer is that wut u mean?

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luke


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Gordmeister:

I enjoyed reading your post. Are you familiar with the "Domestic Show Flight" breed of pigeon? I found it pretty amazing that a new pigeon breed was developed inside 50-years, with careful selective breeding. The result, in my opinion, is one cool looking pigeon! 

I've no experience with breeding these wonderful birds, but I find the subject very interesting.

On a molecular level, all pigeon breeds are better than 99% the same genetic blueprint.
The pivotal instruction in the gene sequence that makes a Pouter or a Fantail or whatever
is so small, it's hardly there at all. And yet, look how the outcome is influenced!

It's also interesting that the "original template" of the Rock Dove prevails as the fallback position when these birds escape and freely inter-breed. Clearly, the fabric of the genome for all pigeons, everywhere, lies in the DNA of the common Rock Dove. 

I find the "mechanics" of life to be elegant and beautiful, and pigeons especially so. Talk about the right stuff! They are as tough and resilient as they are lovely.

Welcome to Pigeon Chat! You've joined us at a time of great transition. With luck, the new Pigeon Chat will be on line by May 1st.
So stick around and check it out!

--Ray


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## Gordmeister (Mar 31, 2001)

Ray,

No, I have not heard of the Domestic Show Flight breed.

Until I found this webbsite, I've been out of the loop on pigeons. I wanted to subscribe to the American Pigeon Journal, but I couod not find its address. Apparently, it is no longer published.

I really enjoy reading the posts on this board, even though I cannot raise pigeons at this time.

Gordon


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

why not dude

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luke


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## Gordmeister (Mar 31, 2001)

Luke,

Raising pigeons not allowed in our subdivision. Would have move out to the countryside. Retired early, children are adults, but live and work in the Detroit area. My wife is against any move away from the kids and the conveniences of living in the metro area. She also says that I should forget about raising pigeons because I have weak lungs (asthma).She heard that people can contract a lung disease from pigeons or from some mold or fungus in the lofts.Is there anything to what she heard or read?

Gordon


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

don't know

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luke


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## peter (Oct 22, 2001)

You can go to the National Pigeon Association and get your magizen, or you can order either from foys pigeon supplies or global pigeon supplies and get dust masks for use in the loft keeps from getting lung deseases


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peter


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Gordon: 

With regard to your last question, yes, there is. It's called "Pigeon Lung" and it's an allergy to the shed protien particles from feathers. I'm asthmatic myself... So, don't sleep with them! 

Women's perfume (bliss, though it may be) quick draws my "Albuteral" faster than any parrot or pigeon ever will.

DOMESTIC SHOW FLIGHT: God knows "Bernie" is the love of my life, but the "Domestic Show Flight" is one cool looking bird!

It has eyes, white as yours or mine. It has an "Elvis" hairdoo. It has a highly pronounced keel. And it's BIG! Way cool!

I saw it on an outstanding video I ordered called, "Oldest Feathered Friend". You can order or preview this video from: 
http://www.paccomfilms.com/films/pigeons.html 

I ordered the version coupled with "Marathon In The Sky" for $39.00. Wow, were my eyes opened! The film's producer, Jim Jenner, was kind enough to "talk" with me! Their website will be featured at the new "Pigeon Chat", which goes on line next month!

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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