# Is one squab going to grow bigger and faster than two?



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I often prefer to have one squab in the nest. I think it grows faster and bigger and in my opinion that is better.

Two squabs can keep eachother warm and maybe stop splaying of the legs but I never have problems with played legs anyway. I make sure they have a good nest.

So the question is - Is one squab going to grow bigger and faster than two?

Luke


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I think you are correct in that one grows faster than two.....more food =more growth. I always enjoy seeing them in the nest in pairs though.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Do you think if you wanted to breed a show champion its best to use a fake egg or move one squab and preferably use a feeder like a racer? I'm thinking quality rather than quantity? this and a good bloodline should produce a winner imo


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## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

great question. I do not think that raising one squab under two parents will result in a bigger offspring than raising two given a situation were both have limitless access to food.

it is testable.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

thepigeonkey said:


> I often prefer to have one squab in the nest. I think it grows faster and bigger and in my opinion that is better.
> 
> Two squabs can keep eachother warm and maybe stop splaying of the legs but I never have problems with played legs anyway. I make sure they have a good nest.
> 
> ...


no it depend on the gene and feed


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## OldStrain (Jan 25, 2011)

One thing you can do to help the situation is to remove the larger youngster right before you feed your birds. After feeding the parents are more than willing to feed. Let them feed the small youngster first and then return the bigger one. I have done this many times and it does work.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes, I have had lone squabs get really big.. I call them squabzillas...lol..


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

OldStrain said:


> One thing you can do to help the situation is to remove the larger youngster right before you feed your birds. After feeding the parents are more than willing to feed. Let them feed the small youngster first and then return the bigger one. I have done this many times and it does work.


good idea Oldstrain. Are you on the fence?

so two people think you have more chance of bigger better offspring if there is one squab and two people think it makes no difference.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I do not think it will make a difference in the end, when they are adult birds. I can see where a single baby might grow to its eventual size faster. 

If a bird had malnutrition as a squab (perhaps a late hatching bird or inexperienced parents,) I can also see where this could easily stunt growth. (Possibly permanently.)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

While 1 young bird May grow better. AND the parents may not be worked as hard. There is now way that it would be a better bird. As just a hand ful of young birds raised each year are any good to use. And the less you raise the less chance on getting good ones. Remember the saying BIGGER IS NOT ALLWAYS BETTER.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im confused where did he ask if the one squab would be a better bird.?. did I miss something..lol.. .. I only thought he asked if it would be bigger as in growth.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

re lee said:


> While 1 young bird May grow better. AND the parents may not be worked as hard. There is now way that it would be a better bird. As just a hand ful of young birds raised each year are any good to use. And the less you raise the less chance on getting good ones. Remember the saying BIGGER IS NOT ALLWAYS BETTER.


I agree with everything re lee said. I have had nests with one squab and they do seem to grow much faster. Instead of having to compete with the other for food, it gets all it wants. The babies are always filled to the brim. Now whether or not it becomes a big bird as an adult, depends on genetics. Even little birds in the nest can catch up and you'd never know they were runts. Bigger is definitely not always better. If that were so, we'd be winning with Giant Runt pigeons and ASR's.
Keeping the parents full of food will help make sure a normal nest of two babies will grow just as big. A lot depends on how good the parents are. I've had parents pump two babies just as hard as a single baby nest and the grew really fast. Then I've had some parents not so great where the babies didn't grow very fast. Another big thing is when an egg hatches a little later than the first and the first baby gets a head start. Then you run into sometimes having a very small baby and a very big baby because it won't let the other eat. But as said before, you can take the big guy out at first so the little one gets full first.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

thepigeonkey said:


> Do you think if you wanted to breed a show champion its best to use a fake egg or move one squab and preferably use a feeder like a racer? I'm thinking quality rather than quantity? this and a good bloodline should produce a winner imo


spirit wings Read this post. . That is where bigger is not better was refured to. And if a person looks often as the young get ready to leave the nest they are near the same size Or just a slight difference. But yes parents are not worked as hard. But pigeons lay 2 eggs as do doves as they are made to be able to raise 2 young at a time. But the egg removed may have been the better bird Only selection keeps quality going.


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## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

Bigger is certainly better because I have a small ego.

so raise two and give them as much food as they can eat.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Some parents and some breeds are naturally better feeders too....hence the use of homers. I think it is very dissapointing when no consideration is taken into things like parenting behavior when creating a breed or selectign breeding stock. I realize that some of the breeds with tiny beaks will physically never be able to feed well....but there is no excuse for having a breed with normal beaks etc. which has lost its ability to incubate eggs and feed its own young. I know I am going a little off track here....


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Sounds like most people think it will grow faster but not bigger. or 'better' r lee lol
Some of the top racing studs use the one squab theory. 
I think its better for the parents to have one squab, the squab grows faster, the nest stays cleaner and the bird weans early. 
I don't know if it grows bigger or healthier, bigger is not always better in some breeds though I preffer my Frillbacks and English Carriers to be on the slightly larger and heavier side. I think one squab has an over all better chance at being better quality.
I will keep testing the theory.
Thanks for all the oipinions


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Woodnative said:


> Some parents and some breeds are naturally better feeders too....hence the use of homers. I think it is very dissapointing when no consideration is taken into things like parenting behavior when creating a breed or selectign breeding stock. I realize that some of the breeds with tiny beaks will physically never be able to feed well....but there is no excuse for having a breed with normal beaks etc. which has lost its ability to incubate eggs and feed its own young. I know I am going a little off track here....


I have heard of breeds which cant raise thier own and breeds which you must not disturb when breeding. Some need feathers cut to mate or incubate and frillback hens can stop laying as early as three years. but I guess thats part of the fun in keeping these breeds.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

thepigeonkey said:


> Sounds like most people think it will grow faster but not bigger. or 'better' r lee lol
> Some of the top racing studs use the one squab theory.
> I think its better for the parents to have one squab, the squab grows faster, the nest stays cleaner and the bird weans early.
> I don't know if it grows bigger or healthier, bigger is not always better in some breeds though I preffer my Frillbacks and English Carriers to be on the slightly larger and heavier side. I think one squab has an over all better chance at being better quality.
> ...


If you take the time to notice. Yes the bird will seem to grow bigger faster. BUT then it will slow down and be the same size.As it matures out. THEN You will notice Quality NEVER was made intro it by it growing some faster. A bird has to be born having quality. No amount of feeding will make a bird be a bird of quality. And selection As I said is the only way to keep and or improve QUALITY. You can allways do the 1 young bird per nest concept. And Raise a good bird or 2 BUT it will never be cause you raised only 1 per nest. It will allways be because the bird was BORN to be a good bird. It takes those certion GENES from its parents to be good. I do wish it was so easy that feeding 1 instead of 2 made better birds. As then everyone would just have to do this and would have better birds.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Have you thought of the fact that where you are and the limited GENE POOL of birds That you need to find no related birds to increase your gene pool. When birds are getting rather inbred. 1 they produce less years.2 they tend to decrease in size  This happens any where And bringing fresh blood helps turn this around. It is my understanding from posts here That no imports are allowed. So finding other breeders theres And sharing the birds would help keep size and fertility going longer. a person has to use what they have or can get to balance there needs.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Interesting, some of what you say makes sence r lee, when I got new blood the birds I bred were smaller and the laying issues in frillbacks is international. 
I have good enough bloodlines to work with, its about bringing out the best potential in each squab raised.

Your right in saying if there was a sure way to breed winners everyone would be doing the exact same thing but we all have different theorys and we all do things differently. Different things work for different birds or people.

I have room to raise 20 frillbacks each year so I preffer to have only one in each nest, for me its not about quantity.
I havn't the room to keep 40 frillbacks, its about giving each squab the best chance.

I can select the best offspring from a group of young who were all given the best possible oppertunity to grow to full potential.

My conclusion thus far is: 
IMO one squab has an 'over all' better chance at being better quality.

Again, thanks for your opionion.

Luke


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Ok if that is what you want to believe. If you raise 20 how many do you keep . As It is not how many you raise it is about which ones you keep. And some years a person might just keep 1 or none. So you could raise 100 and keep 3 or 5. In show type birds They carry the point set by a standard. So selection With knowledge can be done on some breeds early and others after the first moult. With exception off out right culls. Where they can be removed early. Tell my in your country How many do you know that breed you same breed lines. How many breed towards the standard. And is the selection strong enough to use key birds from select breeders. As for the bring in of outside birds and then your got smaller then it sounds like you picked the wrong birds to work with. Pigeon keeping towards an idea is world wide A selection towards that idea is to. Good luck But one day you will see. that Selection makes for a better chance in raising good birds. And perhaps several of those discardeed eggs would have been the better bird.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Out of 20 birds I would keep 2 or 3 of the best. 
I can't hatch every egg layed or I would have 100 frillbacks every year.
If I tried to raise 100 young birds they would be crammed into the loft with no room, then they would all turn out rubbish.


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