# 2 Dead Red Foxes



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I found 2 dead Red Foxes yesterday evening, the weird thing is I know they don't run in packs, and these 2 after examining them both were still warm... younger... their teeth were not worn in the least bit. Stiffness hadn't even started to set in yet. When I went back down the road again today, I checked on them yet again this was after I went into the useless DNR and reported they they were there. Disturbed about why would 2 foxes be laying on the back road within 3 feet of each other dead, with no blood from gun shot or anything. There is no way they could have jumped the 20 foot wide ditch that was around 6 foot deep with water. I asked him if they could have someone go look at them and pick them up or do something as they are attracting alot of people riding by he said he would but when I went back that way to go home they were still there, my question is why are these 2 foxes not getting stiff? It is 32 here today and yesterday was the same. They should be hard as a rock by now. Come to find out DNR never did go there. I don't think they were hit by a car. Poisoned? 

What do you think?

Cindy


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Sounds alot like the DNR in this state, ready to take your money but don't really want to help if they have to do some work.

The foxes could have been together because of the breeding season, sounds like maybe have been poisoned. Was there any frothing or drooling at the mouth? It seems kinda odd that both would have gottn hit by a car at the same time, any blood coming out of nose mouth, ears or eyes? This could indicate an auto strike. As for not being stiff, rigor mortis may take several hours depending on weather factors, maxium stiffness usually occurs in 12-24 hrs. after death. Then1-3 days because of tissue break down the body will again be flexible.

Sounds a bit strange, hope this helps.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thank You Robin. There was no blood anywhere on either youngster, no blood from the eyes or nose or both not even any drool. Their eyes were shut too. Just seems a bit odd like you said that they were both dead next to each other. I am thinking they may have been poisoned. The DNR are so useless here and to think I wanted to be one as a child so I could bust poachers killing all the animals. Not no more! I called them before about a Raccoon in destress on partially frozen ice, instead they went out and shot it because they did want to fall thru ice that came up to your chest. The foxes were both female juveniles around 6-8 months old. I even told the DNR that it was very suspicious that they were both dead along side each other. If given antifreeze in meat and that going thru the blood stream and also thru the muscles wouldn't that keep them from freezing? I am so mad about this even more about the DNR not doing anything and these are the guys that get paid so much money. 

Cindy


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Nature Girl, Sounds really fishy to me. I hunt, and even when I bag my deer, the eyes are always "open", not closed! That does sound suspicious! You might want to keep both eyes open. 
Maybe someone poisoned them and then dropped them off there?  I am only guessing here, as it sounds too much like they were "placed" there. Hmmm.... Keep us posted....


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Nature Girl, Sounds really fishy to me. I hunt, and even when I bag my deer, the eyes are always "open", not closed! That does sound suspicious! You might want to keep both eyes open.
> Maybe someone poisoned them and then dropped them off there?  I am only guessing here, as it sounds too much like they were "placed" there. Hmmm.... Keep us posted....



You are right Sue, closed eyes is very strange. Most animals when they die, a stressful death, die with their eyes open. I too was wondering if they were put there.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I just called my vet for my dog and he will be calling me back after 7:00 pm. I explained everything to Patti and she said sounds pretty darn odd too. DNR did nothing at all. Now goes for the next question of stupidity. 

If they were poisoned with antifreeze in meat and ate a large quantity of it and all this antifreeze in their blood stream wouldn't that make it so they couldn't get stiff? The fact that they both had their eyes closed was what got to me. 

Cindy


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## trailbound (Apr 11, 2007)

I sure hoped you did not touch these foxes, but fear you had to to find out what thier sex was. Could have been distemper, or worse yet, rabies. If you did touch them, I would be calling the health department and having them tested for rabies, better to be on the safe side. Antifreeze would not prevent them from freezing. I don't know where you are, but unless they are on snow covered ground, frozen solid, bare earth and/or a road surface could be considerably warmer than the surrounding air. I don't think it is all that unusual that thier eyes were closed, I have seen animals die from disease that literally went to sleep, and died that way. 
Kelley


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Ok the vet called me and said that more than likely they were poisoned and that rigor mortis would eventually set in. He has seen animals poisoned before and it sounds like what he seen before. I feel so badly for these too little girls makes me sick to my stomach to think people out there are so damn mean and think nothing of killing another animal for pure joy. The vet also told me to go pick them up tomorrow and put them in garbage bags so keep other animals from getting into them and getting sick and take them to the dog pound and they will take care of their bodies. If they weighed 14 pounds I would be surprised.

Cindy


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

NatureGirl, Keep us posted on what your Vet says. I don't know about the rabies thing, but I do big game hunt, and both the deer and bear had opened eyes when I bagged them. When I had to put my dog to sleep, the Vet gave her a shot, and she went to sleep, and her eyes were still opened when she passed. That "eyes open" is a very big clue.... Also, I hope you did wear latex gloves when you examined the foxes? Good idea. Keep us posted, OK?

OK, we were posting at the same time! Yeah, your Vet sounds like he knows what he's talking about. There are some real sickos out there, so keep an eye on your own pets. Why we have those kind of people is beyond me! Good detective work, Girl!


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Matter of fact yes I had to lift the back leg to see the sex. Since when can you get rabies from touching an animal? I thought you had to be bitten? If it was distemper why would they both die together at the same time and die by each other? 

Cindy


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

naturegirl said:


> Matter of fact yes I had to lift the back leg to see the sex. Since when can you get rabies from touching an animal? I thought you had to be bitten? If it was distemper why would they both die together at the same time and die by each other?
> 
> Cindy


Again, I have to agree with you. Looks like it is time to do some surfing! I think with distemper, it is highly unlikely they would both be so close to each other, like they were "placed" there.... Hmmmmmm.....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Cindy,
My experience with poisioned animals is that they get stiff really quickly after death.
You can't get rabies from touching an animal.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

You can't get rabies from just touching an animal, unless you have an open wound and the salvia or blood got into that wound. 
I believe if it had been distemper or rabies they would be in pretty bad shape, scruffy looking coats and very unkept appearence.

I tend to agree with your vet. Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

"Ditto" EgypSwiftLady! That is what I was thinking too. Cindy, what did their coats look like? Nice and full, or thin and scraggly? This is sounding scary, that we have these people out there, walking among us......


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thank God for that as I was getting very worked up about it. Now for the distemper I couldn't tell you about the transfer. Well there was no blood and I have no open wounds. I know one thing I will always keep rubber gloves in the back of my jeep for now on. That was honestly one of my stupid mistakes without thinking I just opened the jeep door and flew out to these two hoping I could find them alive and help them get some help but I was too darn late. I will go to them tomorrow and see what they look like again and also take their bodies to be desposed of properly before some other animal gets something from them or gets sick and dies from eatting bad meat. Well thanks to you guys I feel alot better and at ease knowing I won't get rabies from these babies. Thank You to everyone for alll your help and concern but will keep my eyes open for anymore funny buisness. Oh yeah... no their fur was beautiful and soft. 

Cindy


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well seeing as the DNR never came out. I called the Dog pound and they are coming out to pick the babies up asap to get them. Dog Pound agrees that the DNR are useless. 

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, I'm really sorry these fox died, for whatever reason.

Fox do carry rabies and you can get it from an open cut or wound. Also, I would be very careful in approaching any animal like a fox or raccoon that may look dead because they may only be stunned and, if they are rabid, may attack you. Even if they're not rabid, a bite could still be dangerous. It might not be a bad idea to carry something like a long stick to move them so you don't get too close until you see they are actually dead. Also, move slowly around them and don't make sudden movements....just in case.

You know, when I first read this, I wondered if they were traveling together and a car hit them both. There might not have been any blood if they had internal injuries.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Cindy, I'm really sorry these fox died, for whatever reason.
> 
> Fox do carry rabies and you can get it from an open cut or wound. Also, I would be very careful in approaching any animal like a fox or raccoon that may look dead because they may only be stunned and, if they are rabid, may attack you. Even if they're not rabid, a bite could still be dangerous. It might not be a bad idea to carry something like a long stick to move them so you don't get too close until you see they are actually dead. Also, move slowly around them and don't make sudden movements....just in case.
> 
> You know, when I first read this, I wondered if they were traveling together and a car hit them both. There might not have been any blood if they had internal injuries.


I was wondering the same thing about a car...
A very long time ago, I came upon a beautiful little red fox that had just been run over by the car in front of me. Before I had time to think, I pulled over and ran to try comforting it where it lay...the poor thing died in my arms. (I had been watching "foxxy" every evening in the same area of woods as I drove home from work and was just so overcome with emotion when it was hit that I didn't stop to think about being bitten or hit by a car myself as I sat in the middle of the road with a wild animal in my lap.) But long story short, there was no blood or external injury whatsoever. It just died from internal injuries.

So...I say it is entirely possible that these two babies were both run over...not that it makes the situation any less sad. But at least if it was an accident that's better than an intentional killing.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thanks guys but something is still up with these two as after the 3rd day they didn't even start to stiffen up the least. I have... since discovering these put rubber gloves in my jeep and also a mouth surgical mask to be on the safe side also an extendable rod. I could see from the road they were no longer breathing that is the only way I walked out to them. I called the dog pound up and they came out and removed them for me. They too said they would hate to see another animal or bird get ahold of them and get sick or die, they were out there in less than 1/2 hour. Thanks for all the help and advice, it is advice well taken. Thanks again

Cindy


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

naturegirl said:


> Thanks guys but something is still up with these two as after the 3rd day they didn't even start to stiffen up the least. I have... since discovering these put rubber gloves in my jeep and also a mouth surgical mask to be on the safe side also an extendable rod. I could see from the road they were no longer breathing that is the only way I walked out to them. I called the dog pound up and they came out and removed them for me. They too said they would hate to see another animal or bird get ahold of them and get sick or die, they were out there in less than 1/2 hour. Thanks for all the help and advice, it is advice well taken. Thanks again
> 
> Cindy


Hi Cindy,
I think that rigor mortis is a temporary state in which the muscles tighten. And after a certain amount of time they do relax again. So you may have just missed it. Temperature and environmental conditions do affect the onset as well as the amount of time it takes to dissipate. (i took some forensics studies once...)

I hope hope hope that you do not see any more cases like this. And glad to hear you put the protective gloves, etc in your car. Good thinking!!


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

*Animals In The Road...*

Hey, Birdie Family!

So Sorry, Cindy, That You Had To Experience Such A Terrible Event!
Bless You For Arranging To Get The Obviously Poisoned Foxes Out Of The Reach Of Some Unsuspecting Creature!

Most Important, However, Is To Please Be Careful Of Such Situations In The Future. There Are Human Predators That Will Intentionally Place Dead Animals In The Road And Await Someone To Stop And Get Out Of Their Vehicle! Always Best To Call The Police And Ask For Them To Please Drive To The Scene Before Getting Out Of Your Car....especially At Night! 
I Recently Came Upon A Beautiful Duck Laying In The Middle Of The Road At Night....i Drove A Few Blocks To My Home And Asked A Neighbor To Accompany Me To Go Check It Out. It Was Deceased, So I Just Picked It Up With Gloves And A Bag And Had It Disposed Of The Next Day At The Town Shelter.

We All Have Big Hearts Toward Our Animal Friends, But Have To Think Before We Act For Safety!

Blessings To All!


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## wallflower (Mar 30, 2008)

I love animals as much as anyone(even more than others on here,killing poor deer ) But you can't expect the DNR to go out to every road killed animal.If they were injured yes,but there was nothing more to do with these other than bury them,poor little babies. It sounds like they were killed by a car.I think people are jumping to conclusions to say they were poisoned.The odds of them passing at the same time would be incredible.


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## Tilly (Feb 16, 2008)

wallflower said:


> I love animals as much as anyone(even more than others on here,killing poor deer ) But you can't expect the DNR to go out to every road killed animal.If they were injured yes,but there was nothing more to do with these other than bury them,poor little babies. It sounds like they were killed by a car.I think people are jumping to conclusions to say they were poisoned.The odds of them passing at the same time would be incredible.


That's what I think too. Probably they bounced from impact. That happened to my neighbor's cat. The poor thing was hit and impact bounced it about 30 feet.
It's a shame no matter how they died.


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