# Attracting a feral flock



## Andymil (Mar 28, 2006)

Hello,
I have never before kept pigeons, only chickens and ducks. I am interested in building a pigeon loft in my backyard in order to house a flock of the feral pigeons that roam my town. I want them around primarily to harvest their manure as fertilizer, because I read that this was done historically in many places throughout the world and I'm always seeking innovative ways to collaborate with nature to grow food. 
So I am wondering if I build a place that meets the pigeons requirements, will they just find it and make it their home? I don't see pigeons on my street much, however I do see them within 1/8-1/4 mile. What do I need to do to attract them? I'd rather not committ to feeding them, as they seem to do fine on their own. Any suggestions?


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Andy,

I don't know what to say but I will bet you are killing yourself laughing while you wait for a serious reply. Good luck with the harvesting eh!

Cameron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Andy,

I suspect that if you don't feed them you won't get many takers.

Terry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Andy,

Like Terry said, no food - no pigeons. Feral pigeons have their piece of territory, with their roosts and favorite places, and are not likely to move.

In 'olde' times, when pigeons' poop was used as fertiliser, the semi-domesticated residents of the pigeon cotes were kept in their hundreds in large structures within which there were many nesting holes, and would feed in grain fields nearby (often making themselves and their keepers very unpopular).

You'd need something more like this (from "Book of Dovecotes" A.O.Cooke)

John


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Hello Andy Did you know that during 16th and 17th centuries all pigeon dung was the propty of the king.Do know why? Pigeon dung is high in saltpeter which was used to make gun power George Simon


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Ok,

I take it all back. And you guys do know your pigeon history. I really thought Andy was pulling our legs. Sorry Andy if you were serious. You will have to spring for food to bring the birds in but then again, there is that territory thing. I see the pigeons all lined up on the tops of building walls here. They seem to get along well enough when side by side just catching some rays. Getting ferals to live together peacefully in a small loft might be a little harder though.

Cameron


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I took the enquiry seriously because my dream is that everyone recognises the value of pigeon poop as an organic fertiliser instead of dismissing it as an eyesore or a danger to health or something that is expensive to clear away when it accumulates.

I have a composter in my back garden, which I top up with fresh pigeon poop every day. This is the first year that I will be using the compost produced as a fertiliser. I haven't yet developed the expertise to make good compost or put it to good use, but I know that eventually it will have a more than beneficial effect on my garden. 

Cynthia


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

It would work - I use the poop after cleaning to throw it into my garden beds as I figure it could not hurt and I dont want to throw it away.

All I hope you do is keep an open loft, as I would hate to see ferals being caged just for harvesting their poop!

It would not take much to roost them as all they would like and will come to roost are nest boxes and feed! - although if you do get started be careful that they do not get out of hand as before you know it you could be sitting with too many birds to house


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

So now we are back to the subject of pigeon POOP again, huh? 

Love it.  

Seriously though, if it is such a great fertilizer we should be promoting it, just to help our feral flocks gain some positive attention. They sure need someone to protect and feed them, even if it isn't just because of their wonderful good looks, personalities, intelligence, but for their poop!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I read somewhere that pigeon poop is still used in parts of Europe as fertilizer in the vineyards.

So as well as a 'pop' with a bottle of chamagne,you got 'poop'

John


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

So that's how they get the nice snap, crackle and "pop" into fresh bottles of champagne! Pigeon poop has endless good uses. I may just stick with beer from here on in though now that I know the poop about pop.

Cameron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> So that's how they get the nice snap, crackle and "pop" into fresh bottles of champagne! Pigeon poop has endless good uses. I may just stick with beer from here on in though now that I know the poop about pop.
> 
> Cameron


I'll drink to that...beer, that is! ROFL  

This thread is definitely going "dung" hill!  Pretty soon we'll all be buried in poop...


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> I'll drink to that...beer, that is! ROFL
> 
> This thread is definitely going "dung" hill!  Pretty soon we'll all be buried in poop...



Oh Lord Shi, That is your best one yet. Must remember that, going dung hill.

Too funny!

Cameron


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I can see we shall be needing Pidgey the Pooped-On to keep Shi in order now.

Good 'un, Squeaky

John


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## christina11 (Jan 20, 2006)

Hmm...... who new pigeon poop could go soo far?  

Lol very intresting tho some how......


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## Andymil (Mar 28, 2006)

*attracting feral flock*

Thankyou all for the suggestions thus far, so let's get a bit more specific now. Firstly, I've seen pictures of mighty stone pigeon lofts from medeival Iraq or Iran somewhere, where they harvested the manure to fertilize their grain fields, which the pigeons gleaned and perhaps also controlled insect pests. I would not cage them, just an open loft.
Here is a link to pigeon control in Europe where they built lofts on the outskirts of towns to attract and relocate birds out of the city center:
http://www.picas.org.uk/europe.htm
Like I said in my first post, there are already pigeons around here. In the article I linked to above, they mention that pigeons have established territories and they didn't try to relocate older pigeons, just attract young ones who were ready to stake their claim. So if I built a large loft, and lured them with food, got them to nest, my hope is that they could maintain their current food supplies: the supermarket parking lot, town square, alleys behind restaurants. So they would just habitually nest in my structure, and poop of course, and provide all the interest and beauty that they do.
Eventually I could experiment with taking them across town and carrying a message back home. I've currently got friends scouting for where the feral pigeons do nest, to get some clue as to what they like here..
So does anyone have some more experience in pigeon habits that they can make some recommendations on a plan of how to do this? I feel very blessed that I can tap into this forum of so many pigeon experts! Thankyou for your suggestions.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

One of the difficulties is ensuring that if pigeons used your proposed loft to roost, and you have the 'open loft' arrangement, then they would be somewhat exposed to predators such as raccoons, cats, rats or whatever else you have around - unless the design was indeed based upon the old pigeon cotes, where the exits would be so positioned as to be totally out of reach. Difficult to achieve in a backyard in Prescott, I would hazard.

I've seen a pic of a loft in the park kind of thing for ferals in, I think, Holland (or maybe it was Germany) which PICAS was involved in. It was designed to be predator-proof by providing circular openings quite high up in a smooth-surfaced structure, and any eggs produced were to be replaced with dummy ones as a humane means of population control. I believe there were also designated feeding areas for the public to use.

Whilst a mutually beneficial relationship seems fair enough, ferals should be free to come and go any time, and should have no restrictions or lockdowns, otherwise they start to be 'semi captive'. In that case, I would say to anyone, if they wish to keep pigeons, then they should be obtained from breeders or fanciers - they'll still poop plenty  

I think, too, that if this arrangement did work, and the pigeons did nest as well as just roost, you would have to go some way towards providing for their well being. They would need fresh water, at least, and checking over for illnesses (and treating, if necessary) the same as any of us who rescue pigeons would pick up one that was in need of help. 

Don't know about the messenger pigeons. If you wanted to get into that it would really be better to invest in some homing stock and train them. Feral pigeons are 'sort of' wild birds, and should remain so.

Also, you may want to check out any ordinances about pigeons in your city. 

John


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## jerseygeorge (Mar 18, 2006)

If you are looking for pigeon poop you have come to the right place.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

One little thing concerns me here...NEIGHBORS.

How would your neighbors accept it. I hate to spoil the possibility of a new pigeon roosting place, but we all know how s o m e people are towards pigeons.


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## Andymil (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks John for the info. I'm beginning to gain a picture of what this could possibly look like.
Firstly, from the responses I've gotten so far, it seems like there is a taboo against anything hinting at domesticating feral pigeons. I'm not sure I fully understand why that is, they seem to be part of the human-induced landscape, but considered by many a pest, it seems they could be semi-managed as a productive resource without restricting them too much.
But lets say it's not a good idea to try and do what I want with feral pigeons, and I were to aquire a domesticated breed. Is there a pigeon breed that could: 
-survive in a arid mtn. environment with winter lows to 10 degrees ferenheit and 100 degrees high
-forage for food on their own mostly in a town with many wild areas and creeks
-be trained as homing pigeons
-produce their own offspring
I'm not stuck on feral pigeons, they're just already here and pooping everywhere. As far as my neighbors go, most are friends. But won't my population size be limited by how many nests and roosts I provide?


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

I work in a hotel and the pigeons roost in the eaves etc, we do not feed them etc but they keep comming back

They leave in the morning and come back late afternoon to roost etc.

I would think that if you enticed a few youngsters with food and one pair stayed you would have a few pairs within weeks as they seem to atract friends.

The ferals do "home" to a certain extent and should return, they can survive cold weather as they already are but the nest boxes will not control them pigeons will nest anywhere - in my loft they have no problem using the floor, corner, anything will do as nesting material even two twigs are sometimes regarded as a nest.

But if you are willing to make the effort to train them why not start your own flock of tumblers or homers? they poop just as well and food is cheap and they can give you a nice show when you get home from work

When I arrive home and release them from the loft and sit down to watch the different colours hutling around they sky - its really relaxing. The worst bit would be cleaning but as you want the poop it should not be a problem. I would think you might have trouble with the municipality as here we cannot have ferals in a loft (not that they will ever check but still)


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## cooingsosweetly (Apr 3, 2005)

*poop???*

cute little cooers, cute little pooers!!!lol.now i know why my garden did so well last year, the feral flock that fed on my porch each day sat on the wire above the garden waiting for me to wake up, and as we know they always go off their faveroite perch!! i just swept the sidewalk and all the dung into the garden!


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## cooingsosweetly (Apr 3, 2005)

*me again, about the feral flock..*

one day i made a wish, that a big fat pigeon would perch himself in front of my house and coo for me allday.
there was a great flock at the christie pits park just a block away from my house, i started going there to feed them, and trailing seed back to my house. within a week i had four, than six, than twelve, and before i could get out to purchase more seed, they had told all their friends and i had a lovely flock that lived who knows where, but came to my "resturant" every day, three to four times a day and ate really well, good quality pigeon mix, and i put a old cat pan out for them with water in it, they even bathed!
I moved, and now they are back in the park, but left a big bag of seed with my neighbour, and instructed him to feed them if they came around.
they knew i was gone, i told them i was leaving, and they never came back as soon as i left. 
now i visit them at the park, still know all their names, there is checkers, pieds, bluebars, reds, even a white,.lovely. they are great friends.


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## brotherstwoloft (Jan 25, 2004)

THAT SOUNDS GREAT, pigeon stool is a great fertilizer. but i would not keep feral pigeons. have you ever though of getting fan tails they don't fly to well and they are beautiful to look at. they will stay in your yard if keeped a little on the hungry side when you let them out. the ferals and feed out side the loft will bring little four legged friends that the neighbors and you will not appreciate. and also will bring feral pigeons from all over once they know the food is there. they will roost on all the roofs around your house and that might cause a problem try 2 pairs of fantails and you'll be very happy.


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## brisbanepigeon (Feb 27, 2006)

If you GOOGLE for


> historic dovecotes photo


 You will find this

http://members.aol.com/Duiven/dovecote/chapter6/cooke06.htm

If they did it then. I think you could do it now. At the bottom is a modern dovecote co.












> Elsewhere, at Dunhamstead, a stone dovecote twenty-one feet square has some eight - hundred nests, brick-built, with an alighting ledge for every tier. The roof has been repaired. Offenham Court,with its pigeon-house twenty feet square, four-gabled, and lighted by four windows, is of interest as standing on the site once occupied by the sanatorium of the Abbey of Evesham, in which house the last of a long line of abbots died.











http://www.dovecotes.co.uk/quality.htm


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## Andymil (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks folks, especially for those great pictures! Seems like the feral pigeon thing is not a great idea, because they may take over this whole portion of my neighborhood. I do feel like I could create a fortified and open structure, my chickens and ducks are pretty safe from predators.
The question now is what variety of homing pigeons could I keep in a fortified open loft who can forage well on their own? Is there such a breed? I will post this question on a new thread to attract other input who are not reading this thread.
Sincerely,
Andrew


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