# Christina's thread- selling birds



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Christina*

What birds are you going to be selling? I guess if your into getting and selling birds but I don't like the whole idea of it... I really don't think you should be selling your birds you had to make way for new birds in your life to only get rid of them at any given time. 

I guess this is the Teacher's Aid in me coming out but your spelling needs to be corrected on your website for people to be able to take you serious on what it is you are selling them. 

Christina what is the mark up on these birds? how much are you making on a bird? and then you ship them to where? any where? 

Why not love and keep the ones you have had. And not worry about getting new ones.  

oh and your quote of being a loser who the heck is Billie Joe-A 
they have a horrible way of stating things. And personally I don't find it appealing.

Andi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Sorry, I agree with Andi.........this is not a good idea and I personally don't think that it should even be on our forum. I find it very hard to believe that Christina has all of these birds in her posession. I could go on and on. Moderators, do what you want. Christina has proven time and time again, that she can't take care of her own birds a lot of the time. Now she's going to have this parade of birds going in and out of her house for profit?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I agree w/Andi and Renee on the issues that they raise here. Additionally,
I'm not one who trains birds to 'home', but I've read enough here to see what
hard work goes into a successful 'toss' and sincerely hope that these fancy
pigeons in the pics in this thread don't get tossed!

fp


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2006)

ummmmm Im gonna guess to say that this business adventure will be very short lived for her being that if pigeons sold all that well in the first place we would all be rich by now .... buttttt, being there is no real shortage of pigeons in the first place we may be rich but just pigeon rich lol (meaning we will always have more pigeons then money or places to sell them) so its gonna cost her more to keep them then shes gonna make from selling them  good luck but remember when you get overwhelmed to consider the birds before your profits


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I really wish she would not go into the selling business of pigeons. The birds have it hard enough with their negative image and to try and keep selling them - I can only hope that whoever buys them wants them because they love them, but that is not always going to be the case.

What do your parents think of you doing this? Do they realize the work involved and the disappointments ahead and if so, why are they condoning this? There must be some other way to make money.

Pets are made to be part of a family, not to be sold when the person who has them is bored with them and wants something new.

I don't like this idea at all.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Your thread is titled "My New Site for the Selling of Birds".

When I read the thread title, my first thought was, "good, she is showing responsibility and will find homes for those lovely birds she now has" until she can mature and also have better living conditions.

I can't begin to tell you, Christina, my despair when I read what you are actually planning to do - in fact, it looks like you have already started this "business". You really know nothing about caring for birds. Your track record is abysmal. I could actually cry when I think of what may happen to those beautiful birds whose pictures you just posted and the ones you plan to sell.

If you need to work then, PLEASE, find a job that does not involve innocent birds or animals until you can properly care for them. Better yet, GO BACK TO SCHOOL. 

I imagine you will delete this thread just as you have so many others when people have tried to reason with you. I personally have tried to be supportive of you but can no longer do so. If other people want to take issue with what I have said, so be it, but they need to know the full history of your record with caring for birds.

Please reconsider your decision for the sake of the birds.


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## christina11 (Jan 20, 2006)

I actualy saved most of these birds from being killed, those poor Kings where going as meat pigeons .. some man thought I was going to kill them and laughed.  

These pigeons where stuck in tiny boxes so I wanted to start saving as many as I could then find them new loving homes, I'm selling them at pretty high prices so they find the best homes ... I would tell the people all they need to know about pigeons and the other birds I have.

I don't see why you are all so mad, everyone at the acution sells and breeds pigeons for shows or just pets .. not just me isent that what pigeons where used for in the first place selling? It's not like I'm going to hurt them.

I love all these birds and plan on finding them each a loving home.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK folks. While I personally think that this selling of birds by Christina is probably not the right thing for her to be doing right now, I HAVE moved the original post to the forum where it should have gone in the first place .. Birds Wanted Or For Sale.

Christina, I will tell you that unless birds are worth a whole lot more in Canada than they are in the U.S. (and that could well be true), then you have priced your birds way too high. Nobody that can buy a parakeet at a big pet store is going to pay you more than that for one you have UNLESS it is unusual or very tame or very something that makes it different.

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Guess Christina DID delete the thread...don't see anything from her about selling birds...all that's left are the reactions/replies posts...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

No, it's there: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18305

Terry


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## christina11 (Jan 20, 2006)

Well I paid lots of money for birds before,

There is someone already intrested in the budgies actualy, if I go too low people might want to eat them and not tell me about it.

Also just to let you ALL know.

*I DID NOT DELETE THIS POST, I ALSO DID NOT DELETE THE WINDIGO POST EITHER!!*


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, let's keep the emotions on an even keel. 

Christina has been trying to develop a loft that will be predator proof. She emailed me some pictures and I told her I'd post them so that the other members could offer suggestions to help out:


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Selling birds is for the brds, sometimes*

Hello Christina,

It seems we have some very emotional members in Pigeon Talk. Emotions are very useful in making some decisions, and get in the way of other decisions. 

I will give *a personal example*, as a way of looking at an issue in an unemotional and objective way:

In 1989 my health (involving recurring lung infections, in general) was declining, and I had to decide whether or not to apply for permanent disability retirement (at the age of 42). I had been working in Germany, mostly computer and desk work, for six years. My employment and career possibilities were ending almost before they had begun. Retirement benefits would be small, and a lot of doors would be closed to me. I was sick a lot, and the situation was deteriorating. I did not know what my retirement income would be. I figured that I could keep on working, be sick just about every weekend plus holidays plus four or five days a month, and sometimes be bedridden two or three weeks in a row. If I kept working maybe I wouldn't have to stop. More likely was the prospect that I would be even more disabled, wind up in a wheelchair, need heart-lung transplants with an optimum post-op five-year survival rate, and need nursing care. Not very encouraging.

But, I like to enjoy life. Decided to leave hysterics and melodrama out of the decision-making process. An ideal job would have been part-time self-employment, but even that wasn't an option (for bureaucatic reasons, among many others). 

I decided that I should not make the final decision based on how I felt on my best days, nor should I make the decision based on the bad days, how I felt when I was feeling worse than usual. When I was feeling good, I could get the job done. When I was sick, I was in bed and no work got done. Found out the hard way, to my detriment, that I couldn't even spend a half-hour per day telling work colleagues what at my desk needed to be taken care of and where to find stuff. My health was unpredictable. I couldn't tell someone I would be able to work the next day. If sick, couldn't tell them it would last a day or a week or two weeks. I could say that it would be a minimum of three days or a week before the tide turned, but coudn't say when the turning point would occur. I didn't base my decision on a short term experience; it was based on my health over a span of at least two to five months. 

I told my employer what almost any one would never want to admit to an employer: I told him that I was an unreliable employee. That we had managed a flexible schedule on my part so far, but it was getting worse. That he had a small company, five or six employees, without much overlap in job descriptions. If he needed the minimum of "a warm body" to be on the job at such-and-such a time the next day, he could not rely on me to be there. The company could not afford the luxury of an employee such as myself. Perhaps he as the owner of the company could afford to keep me on, but that would be a personal decision and not a business decision on his part. I told him that I needed his support in applying for disability, because the application and paperwork involved a lot of work. My doctors and a number of disinterested other medical and healh officials agreed with my assessment, and I retired on permanent disability, with no likelihood of future improvement.

So, *how does this relate to what you want to do?* You want to help out a few birds, and make a few bucks. 

You are discussing a business proposition, most likely more than selling one or two birds a month. If you undertake this activity, you will have to give something else up. Simple. You can't rollerskate and sit on the toilet at the same time, as an obvious example. The maintenance and health care of living animals may grow to take up a lot more time that you are prepared to devote. Things happen, and excuses are not accepted (I decided my expensive camera equipment came before the birds' rescue during the earthquake/fire/plague). Of course, you know all this. What we don't expect is the unexpected, even if we "expect" or know something unexpected always happens. 

Are you trained in risk assessment/analysis. Do you know about required licenses. Business forms to fill out. Sales tax collection and payment. Health forms to fill out. If you compete with pet stores, why should they be required to do certain things and you not? Unless you always stay within the limitations of minimum sales and activities. 

If your animals don't sell, or not as quickly as you would like, are you prepared to become a full-time private "zoo-keeper"? Skip school? Afford the needs of your "pets"? Are you prepared to meet with your county health officials? Fill out social-security and income tax forms? You may think that you don't need to bother with all that until things are really moving along, but most under-captalized and under-staffed businesses fail within five years. My wife is an artist, and has made money at it, but is not self-sustaining. Do you have someone committed to supporting you financially and with their time and efforts? When you get sick, who will take care of the birds?

If you become overburdened with any job, it quickly ceases to be fun and can turn into drudgery. One saying I like is "The sign of a true vocation is the love of the tedium involved." You may feel that you want to work with animals and not suffocate in paperwork, but don't you really want to be successful enough that some paperwork would be involved? And even if you hired others, you would still have papework to do. Unless you worked for someone else, at a pet store. 

My Dad often said he would like to pay a million dollars in income tax. Who's crazy enough to want to pay a milion dollars in income taxes? He inferred that he would like to have enough money so that he would be able to and wouldn't mind paying a million in tax. He's a lawyer. 

I've arranged things so that the birds I have rescued so far can hopefully resume an outdoor life. With my present resources and situation, I couldn't undertake such as what you propose to undertake. And, I have a bit more experience in some pertinent things.

Take care, and wishing you the best (which is why I have taken so much time to right x rite xx wright xxx write this) -- gottagetit right,

Larry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Well, let's keep the emotions on an even keel.
> 
> Christina has been trying to develop a loft that will be predator proof. She emailed me some pictures and I told her I'd post them so that the other members could offer suggestions to help out:



You must be joking......right?? Theres a poor bird under a doggone clothes basket for crying our loud!! If this wasn't so so sad, it would be down right histerically funny. Suggetions:..............ummmm............seems that SOME time ago, she was told the birds needed daylight and AIR to breathe. How hard is it to cut a square hole in a wall and cover it with wire???? That's the darkest looking, dreariest place I've ever seen. No animal deserves to be locked up in it. JMO.........and it's not like she just decided last week or yesterday that this would be a good place to keep her birds. It's been MONTHS...........I give up.


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## Boenairgeez (Sep 4, 2006)

*To be applauded*

To make a living or at least some money is not a bad thing. And will probably be good for these birds. i am new to pigeons and not very knowledgable as of yet. i do know that when emotion clouds judgement it is bad. And when money comes into conflict with animals the animals lose. i also know they are animals not people or children. But people sometimes bite, so we use animals to feel safe. Go for it dearheart life is short.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Keeping emotions out of it, what if any changes have occurred _BEFORE the acquisition of new birds?_

fp


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Use Your Talent*

HI CHRISTINA11, Over the last year I have seen some of your art work and feel that you could do much good by using your talent in this area.Some of the pictures that you take are outstanding. I realy was very impressed with the pictures of the autumn leaves and the birds. These could be framed and sold I think the quaity is there.I want you to go to Diane Jacky's web and see what she has done with her talent www.dianejacky.com You are a young person and should start slowly in any endeavor that you undertake use your artist talent and leave the bird selling to those that are in that business.  .GEORGE


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Lovebirds said:


> *Theres a poor bird under a doggone clothes basket for crying our loud!!* If this wasn't so so sad, it would be down right histerically funny. Suggetions:..............ummmm............seems that SOME time ago, she was told the birds needed daylight and AIR to breathe. How hard is it to cut a square hole in a wall and cover it with wire???? *That's the darkest looking, dreariest place I've ever seen. No animal deserves to be locked up in it.* JMO.........and it's not like she just decided last week or yesterday that this would be a good place to keep her birds. It's been MONTHS...........I give up.


I completely agree with Renee's comments above, and I know none of you are surprised

I don't know what if any changes have been made to that shed in the pictures that Pidgey posted of today. It looks like it's been closed up more is all whereas before it seemed open with no door on it perhaps. But whatever the case, the birds won't do well locked up in that dark and very dreary shed with no light and fresh air. The cages are small and this is also not the first time we've seen a cloths basket used to "temporarily" house one of her pigeons. That really is disgraceful Christina! 

Terry, you're right, I thoroughly doubt that Christina will get the prices she's asking for the birds and even though the ones she's shown are quite beautiful.

Christina, it's incredibly hard to understand where your head is at and why you keep posting things here that you know are going to upset us. It's almost as if you do it on purpose just to see what kind of reaction you will get. How could you think that the people who know your past history would feel that you getting into the "bird selling business" was a good idea?

Yes, there are very many concerned folks here and I am one of them, we are concerned about your birds and we are dumbfounded why you just won't listen to what we try to suggest to help you make improvements for the birds' sake.

Anger is slowly turning into indifference with me and probably others too because we are powerless here. I truly hope you get your act together and start making some better decisions once and for all.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I agree with Larry. I was a full-time accountant once, who had to file tax returns for my company. No matter how small your business is, states and cities want you to register in their state, city, local district, whatever, that you are either selling to, storing supplies at, or even at times advertising in, "company presence" is how I think they stated it. That meant I had to be familiar with different state and city taxes and register in both at times. The paperwork is a pain. And they don't care if you didn't know their tax laws changed when you filed and you didn't charge for the correct tax, they audited YOU -YOUR COMPANY, not the customer if they found a mistake. The fines can be incredible.

Needless to say, I hated the job and left accounting.

Although your business is likely to be small, you may still be involved with keeping track of paperwork. Trust me, it is a pain.

And just like Larry said, if you're sick, who's going to keep up the business?

I always wanted to be self-employed until I was employed in accounting at a company as a full-time employee. That's when I realized I wasn't one of those people who could handle being self-employed. You have to think of why businesses hire so many people to do different jobs - because it's usually too much for one person to handle doing all of them.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Selling birds is for the birds, sometimes*

Christina,

Your pigeons require flight pens, even in winter, from what I have seen in photos of English and German and Belgian lofts. These flight pens need to be enclosed in wire. From what I remember, they need to be approximately 4 feet wide by 15-20 feet long (1.5 meters wide x 5-6 meters long), and at least as high as a person. This space is per each pair of pigeons. I am not an expert as are so many on these forums who keep pigeons, so I am sure there will be many who disagree about the finer points. My point is that if I wanted to keep pigeons, I would make sure I had this much space as a starting reference point, and make adjustments and accommodations from there. More pigeons might be kept in a smaller space if they had free flight time daily. These are not my opinions: I have borrowed them from other posts and web-sites, and come up with generalizations. 

A laundry basket might be suitable for a sick pigeon who cannot fly, for a week or so. It is not adequate as a full-time enclosure for a pigeon who can fly. A storage shed does not provide these pigeons with enough room to move, over a period of more than a few days, except in severe winter conditions which I don't think Toronto has. Wikipedia states January (the coldest month) average high is -1.1?C (30?F) and average low is -7.3?C (18.9?F). They require more space than we do. If you were to sit inside that storage shed for two or three days without going out you would probably go crazy. Pigeons have fantastic senses and abilities, which they need to exercise. Use it or lose it, but don't abuse it. This saying refers to exercising your body and maintaining muscle tone, and this applies to pigeons also. 

Having proper facilities in place before acquiring animals is very important. The animals most likely will suffer otherwise. Keeping animals in unhealthy situations can lead to having health authorities intervene. They can take away your animals (for probable euthanization of pigeons), levy penalties and fines (the costs of publc official intervention is put onto your shoulders). 

If you plan to engage in commercial activity, you will need licenses, permits, tax registrations. If it involves animals, there will be official papers dealing with health matters. 

If you really would like to combine working with animals and making a living at it, why not try working at a pet store? Maybe from there your interests may develop to working in animal health, animal shelters, veterinary work, and such. You could learn things from people with experience in these specialized fields. 

If you still want to do it on your own, talk to a pet store owner, a veterinarian, an animal shelter operator and worker. Why not learn the easy way, from others. 

I used to hate it when I ran into a mountain of paperwork and regulations and licenses and permits and organizations, and you felt like you needed ten years of college and a hundred thousand dollas to invest before you could blow your nose and call what came out "yours." but, like it or not, that's what happens. And when someone steals from you or cheats ou or sells ou defective goods, we tend to say "There ought to be a law against this," an "Why aren't the authorities and the police doing something about this?" Ofentimes there is, and they are. 

Here are some links, to give you an idea:

===============

Ontario Services for Businesses
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/MCBS/ENGLISH/5HSRJJ.htm

Starting your own business? Visit the Ontario Business Connects (OBC) website. 
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/obc/english/4TJTBS.htm

For detailed information about starting your own business, please visitthe Canada-Ontario Business Service Centre Web site at www.cbsc.org/ontario. The Ontario Ministry of Consumer and Business Services manages the Canada-Ontario Business Service Centre in partnership with Industry Canada. 
E-Business Info-Guide
http://www.cbsc.org/servlet/Content...ay&lang=en&cid=1085667968794&c=GuideInfoGuide

http://www.cbsc.org/servlet/Content...085667968794&c=GuideInfoGuide#4.__REGULATIONS

http://www.cbsc.org/servlet/Content...d=1085667968794&c=GuideInfoGuide#5.__TAXATION 

Checklists for Going Into Business
http://www.cbsc.org/servlet/Content...ay&lang=en&cid=1081945275479&c=GuideFactSheet 

For example, a pet store should not be located immediately adjacent to a restaurant, dress shop, or salon. 
Canadian Food Inspection Agency 
CFIA is a federal agency created by the amalgamation of food inspection, animal and plant health activities formerly conducted by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Health Canada. 
Date: 2005/10/24 *** Size: 9K

Wild Animal and Plant Trade 
The Regulations applies to anyone who ships or transports animal or plant specimens of wild species from one province to another, or into or out of Canada. 
Date: 2005/04/14 *** Size: 16K 

Animal Pedigree Act (APA) 
The Act promotes breed improvement and protects those who purchase and raise animals through the incorporation of animal pedigree associations. 
Date: 2006/02/20 *** Size: 14K

Animal Health and Production Program 
The program's goal is to prevent the introduction and spread of certain animal diseases and to help protect the quality of animal production inputs by regulating veterinary biologics. 
Date: 2006/08/14 *** Size: 53K 

Do you need a licence? http://www.toronto.ca/licensing/index.htm#need 
If you plan to open a business in the Toronto area, you may require a business licence. Toronto Licensing and Standards issues licences to the following types of business and trades: a long list, whiich includes pet shops, special sales, etc. 

=====================

Before looking at sales or money, make sure that your birds are healthy and happy, and don't make any assumptions that they are. They can't talk to you always, but the can get sick and die. Your storage shed is not proof aagainst rodents and their droppings. The structural support beams ("two by fours" nailed to plywood) do not have triangulation and would not pass housing muster. Cross-ventilation without drafts is not present. Lighting is inadequate. If you do some web research you can see pictures of many adequate lofts of various designs. Google pigeon lofts, racing pigeons, whatever. Who is going to do the construction work? I have done some construciton and helped others, and you need to know more than what direction in which to swing a hammer (away from your face, not towads or knee-cap0 for starters. What paints are suitable for animal habitats? This is not to discourage you, but you do need to do our homework on it, and dedication, and MONEY.

Larry


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

I don't know what to say.  All I know is, the set-up right now is getting two thumbs way down. =\


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, frankly, I hadn't looked at the pictures with a viewer large enough to see the details yet. The fact is that what you see in the pictures is what exists. That said, it's usually easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar.

And, so, Christina, is there any way that we can get a window installed in the side of the building to get some light in there? It doesn't have to be an expensive one--just one that works. It can be one that swings up and out of the way with a layer of hardware cloth over the actual hole so that you can arrange for some fresh air by opening the window.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I don't get this..........Christina was told to do this by more than one member a LONG time ago.........and she STILL HASN'T DONE IT!!!!! I'm done with Christina........yall be "practical" if you want to. She hasn't listened to anything that anyone has told her for the past year. Don't think she's going to listen now. And sadly.......the BIRDS are paying the price. This STINKS!!!


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## christina11 (Jan 20, 2006)

Im getting a window soon enough .. I could even do it today but it's too late.

I have not put in a window because I always have the door open and my pigeons are out for at least 4 to 5 hours a day, there wings are clipped till there sold so I can keep the door open and let them all walk around in the shed, they had a great time today bathing in the warm water and eating as many seeds as they like ... I have enough money to feed all these birds and when I'm sick my parents help out ... even then I still work for my birds.

It was darker in the photos because it was night time, Whiteriver was never in that small basket for long as he flys around all day but now he has his own larger cage, I would never keep a bird in such a small area for such a long time ... all the pigeons seem happy to me singing and dancing around towards each other.

When I'm done with my shed you will all be surprised .....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

christina11 said:


> *How come feather can fly her birds and not me!!!!!!!!!*


Because Feather is experienced in flying her birds, and her birds are trained and experienced in flying. You cannot expect a rescued or purchased bird to know how to home to your place nor even really expect it to fly with the wings clipped.

Your shed looks like it is soundly constructed to me, and if you can make some of the suggested modifications, then I think you will have a good home for your birds.

Leaving the door open doesn't seem wise to me, so I would further suggest that you construct a flight pen off the front of the shed where the birds can be out, get air, sunshine, fly a bit, but will be enclosed and safe. And .. go back into the shed if/when they choose to do so. You, then should assure that all birds are back in the predator proof shed, and close them in for the night.

JMO.

Terry


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Let's hope so for the pigeons' sake. I really wish I lived closer to help, you know. =\ 

Apparently it has been a _long_ time since these suggestions were given, so hopefully they won't have to wait any longer..


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Ashbel said:


> *Apparently it has been a long time since these suggestions were given,* so hopefully they won't have to wait any longer..


It's not only that the suggestions *began* some time ago, they have been *repetitious* & as Renee stated, by *numerous* members.

It just gets a bit frustrating when folks post good, sound advice, repeatedly, only to have it fall on blind eyes, if you will. There always seems to be one excuse after another rather than taking heed of the suggestions & correcting the problems.  

Case in point:  


christina11 said:


> *Im getting a window soon enough .. I could even do it today but it's too late.*
> 
> *I have not put in a window because I always have the door open* and my pigeons are out for at least 4 to 5 hours a day,


Cindy


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Hm, yeah, I see what you're saying, Cindy. It's more like not "Wanting" to do these things for some reason.  Christina, please do "surprise" us soon..


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Ashbel said:


> Hm, yeah, *I see what you're saying, Cindy. It's more like not "Wanting" to do these things for some reason.*
> Christina, please do "surprise" us soon..


Sadly, it does appear that way Brittany.  

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

christina11 said:


> Ok this better be posted because I'm not going to stop till it's answered!
> 
> *HOW COME IT'S OK FOR FEATHER TO FLY HER BIRDS AND NOT ME?!*
> 
> ...


Terry answered your question.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Christina, just some observations regarding your new business endeavor. I have made only a brief glance over some of the previous months here where you’ve posted asking for help. I don’t want to get into a lot of detail, because I would rather that you ask for help when you need it, as without this avenue for you, clearly the birds would suffer. 

There are instances of insect/parasite issues, rodent and sanitizing issues, lack of adequate housing for the birds, financing healthcare needs and Vet’s fees being too exorbitant to use when needed, a tendency to acquire regardless and then off-load as need and circumstances develop. In many observers’ views, these recur to the point of painful reading material. 

A necessary point to make to you would be that simply because you now view your circumstances to be a business venture, truly doesn’t change any of the issues that need to be addressed but rather emphasize the need to finally address them. 

Regarding the ‘loft’ itself, after viewing the pictures, while dreary and substandard, yes, they could be remodeled to meet code and lofting needs providing the placement of the building itself is ‘setback’ from ordinance designated property or ‘building lines‘. The building itself requires more than just one window to make it a ‘healthy environment’ for the lives that dwell there. Hopefully if windows are installed, they would hinge on the side with adequate securing hardware that they couldn’t blow closed. A window hinged from the top could be an invitation to injury more so than a side-hinged window for birds given free fly time. You might consider pre-fabbed double-hung windows with screening; they are very reasonably priced these days. And of course many other issues regarding the safety and health for birds in a loft situation, although I‘m not sure this information is really being sought here from you. Several other suggestions regarding employment angles were very constructive. JMHO, you are fortunate to have your listing in the ‘For Sale’ section prematurely of the needed changes.

fp


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## amandajay (Apr 10, 2006)

if, for some reason, nothing that anyone's said has convinced you that this is a bad idea yet, you should know that you're much more likely to lose money in this business than gain it, even with the prices you're charging.

ideally, you should have a place to keep any new birds isolated on quarantine for at least two weeks if not a month to make sure they don't have any illnesses/parasites that can spread. if they do, you will have to treat them. you may have to vaccinate some that you don't know the history on (the pigeons, at least), and who knows what other vet bills you could rack up. So between taxes, buying the birds from auction, vet bills, feed, medication, adequate housing, as well as A LOT of your personal time, there isn't any money to be gained. If you just want to rescue and help birds, why don't you take some others' suggestions and volunteer at an animal hospital, aviary, or shelter? They have resources that would give you a huge advantage, people you could learn from, and how to go about doing what you love in the right manner.

That being said, I also don't understand why you get so hostile and defensive at peoples' responses on here. IMHO, people in this forum have begun warming up to you because of your good qualities, and encouraging you to develop them, but that doesn't mean that they have forgotten your past history or that it's O.K. to start selling birds without fixing some of the problems you were having in the first place. I think everyone's just trying to help you make decisions that are best for both you and your birds.


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