# Pigeon Fledglings wont eat



## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Hi
I have not posted in a LONG time, usually reading other posts gives me the answers I am looking for. This time I am stumped. I have been breeding Budapest Tumblers and have lost all but 1 squab this year. They make it to weaning and then can't seem to feed. 
This time I stepped in and took one little guy in. His dad would not feed him, his mother would but he did not get anything into his crop.
He has all his feathers, could fly but doesn't. Prefers to walk behind me.
He is very thin and spends his days hunched in a corner until I come and get him.

He will not eat seed or drink. I am feeding him once a day only hoping he will clue into the seed but no luck.

This weekend I was at a show and a man gave me 2 Capuchine squab. One is fully independant and eating and drinking, the other is near deaths door.
So I started feeding him to. The fellow said the parents had quit feeding him, but he can fly and does peck at some seed, but never fills up his crop. He does drink water though which is good.

These 2 birds are so thin , the food is there, I am supplementing them with a mixture of grains(soaked), chick starter,baby cereal and veg. but we are getting nowhere. 

Any ideas? I now have them together so they sit hunched up together looking miserable.
HELP!!
Jennifer


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It sounds like this poor little bird is sick. Since he is not eating enough on his own, you need to feed him more that 1 time a day. A hand feeding formula for birds would be the best. Most of us here like KAYTEE. I only feed once a day when a bird is active, has a good weight but hasn't learned to eat on his own.
Sick birds need to be kept warm. So put him on a heating pad set no higher than the LOW setting.
As for what might be wrong with him it could be many things and others will be checking in to help you with the detective work to figure that out.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Hi, thanks for the advice.
They have very normal poop and are quite happy at feeding time. They are on a heating blanket. I quess I will have to feed twice a day. I fill the little guys crop until it is squishy and we are up tp 70cc a night. The bigger capuchine does not take as much, but he won't gulp it down yet either.
Can you give meds to a young bird?
Thanks 
Jen
PS..I was unable to hunt down any Kaytee, or baby bird feed for that matter.
So i'm making the alternative.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Feed when the crop is empty only. 70cc is an awful lot of food. Could you confirm that is the amount you are feeding?
You should be feeding 15-20 cc per feeding and probably 3 times a day.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Have you vaccinated your pigeons for Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis) and PMV? The high chick mortality rate makes me think Paratyphoid. But there could also be other problems. Did you treat your birds for canker (trichomoniasis) and coccidiosis before breeding? Have they been wormed?


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

The high mortality rate is in the Budapests only. From what I understand from breeders, due to the very short beak I should be fostering out the eggs. My Capuchine hatch was excellant this year. The sick one I have is from someone else.

They were treated and wormed before breeding (the parents) and the chick mash has cocci. drugs in it.

I think 70 cc. is too much also but that's what he takes....his crop empties out by noon but I am only able to feed hime in the evening. I just need to figure out how to get them to eat the seeds, even a little bit. I have seen both of them pecking..so what can I do to encourage this.
Thanks
Jen


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The huge feeding could in part be causing problems.
Feed 20cc at night and the same amount in the morning. Leave him with seed and water during the day. He doesn't have much to do but investagate. 
Before the evening feeding, put him in your lap, have a deep dish of seed handy and play with it. Try to get his curiosity going. You are going to need to work with him and teach him how to eat on his own. It takes some longer than others. 
No more 70cc feedings.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Sounds good, I was just filling him up. He chugs it down so easy, the other one puts up a fight but I will keep trying. Poor Stevie he is going to be *** off.LOL..I was doing 2 feedings before so we'll try again.
Thanks
Jen


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I just realized that 70cc is 2 1/2 times more than he should have at and one feeding.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Wow..talk about killing him with kindness!
Now I feel awful..poor little fellow..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

LOL..I'm glad you have a sense of humor. I think it is a must!


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

I love my birds. I have been raising show chickens but fell in love with a Capuchine at a sale..then I layed eyes on a boogly eyed budapest and it was love. You have to have a sense of humour when your walking around unaware of the bird poop down your shoulder and back!! Also having the "gruel" instead of hair gel holding your style together.
Thank you for the advice and I will start tonight. I think the capuchine may come around on his own. I have only had him since Sunday and he has been jostled and picked on..so hopefully he will start picking at seeds soon cause he HATES hand feeding.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Keep us posted. Help is always available here.
BTW, I love chickens too. Mine are show birds but only to me because even the most ordinary of the flock is beautiful to me. 
Such characters they all are!


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I have always wanted some chickens! Maybe, someday...


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Well I took all the advice I was given and went off to try it out last night.
The capuchine youngster started eating seed last night, and when I brought him in to watch TV he ate quite a bit more plus a few big gulps of water. Seems the capuchine likes TV dinners!

Stevie my Budapest is another story. I think he has a respiratory problem. He can't squeak, just a little peep..he used to squeak at his mother all the time but then became to weak to even walk..that's when I stepped in. His mites are gone, but this morning he had goopy eyes. Of course he sticks his whole head in the tube for feeding, and having such a short beak it gets in his eyes all the time. He seems to be ruffled and heavy breathing when not with me.

Anyhoo last night I put him in my lap and "pretended" to peck at seed. The Capuchine thought it was great but Stevie looked at the 2 of us like we were daft!
So I gave him a few seeds in his beak, which he spat out in disgust. So after about 20 min. I fed him *20CC* of his mash. Boy he was upset that was all he got.
Well the 2 of them practiced their wing flapping , and wandered around on the floor for awhile leaving lovely poop artwork on the carpet behind them.
Then Stevie came for cuddles. He loves having his head scratched.

This morning he ate another 20CC..no seeds..he really has no interest..jumped around peeping and practised his wing exercises.
I have a large cage in the sun (with shaded areas) in my barn. Since it is a nice day I put the 2 of them in there. Stevie immediately puffed up and went to sit on the perch.
I have alot of different drugs here, and he was really run down, so should I med. him? The pussy eyes have me concerned. This seed thing is going to take a while!
Any advice?
Thanks
Jen


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

What medications do you have?


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

I have Baytril, Tetracycline, Terramycine, Oxytetracycline, Neox, Gallimycine, excuse the spelling, I'm no vet. Also a sulphur product that saved a lot of chickens with cholera, but I can't remember it's name.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

whoops not cholera but coryza..the youngsters had it once.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well...you certainly seem to be well stocked in meds which is a very good thing.
Could you have a look in Stevie's mouth and see if there are any yellow blotches or white spots ? Check out the throat too. How does his poop smell? Sour or really bad?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Puss in the eyes? Don't suppose you can take a picture of that, can you? Or describe it in a lot more detail like if there's any conjunctival swelling, cloudiness or anything like that?

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I am also wondering if the crop is hanging and enlarged given the large amounts of food you were feeding. If so, the bird might need a bra for a few days to hold the crop up. That is something you can easily make with vet wrap. It doesn't need to be elaborate.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've never know how much but I've certainly seen the parents in my loft feed the nestlings one whole heckuva' lot more than I ever do in one sitting. When it's a homer and especially an "oops" baby (the single egg that I didn't replace with a plastic one), they've had grossly extended crops. I might put it near that amount on the three to four week old ones.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> I've never know how much but I've certainly seen the parents in my loft feed the nestlings one whole heckuva' lot more than I ever do in one sitting. When it's a homer and especially an "oops" baby (the single egg that I didn't replace with a plastic one), they've had grossly extended crops. I might put it near that amount on the three to four week old ones.
> 
> Pidgey


Probably not 70cc's


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

The crop is fine, the eyes are clear-no swelling. They are just messy this morning. It is the type of goop you would see in a human who has bad allergies and eyes are weeping.
Poops are normal, not stinky and he has a normal coloured throat with no signs of canker. He is a bug eyed breed and swimming in his feed in the syringe probly does not help.

HMMM. I can't see any other symptons. When he is out with me is is a lively little fellow, but looks rejected the rest of the time. I don't think it is cocci, or canker, or yeast..I think he has a cold!

I have actually seen my fosters fill up the squab till they couldn't move, so that's why I gave Stevie as much as he wanted. He looked like them and I figured it must be okay. He has a great appetite, something is just off.
Hoefully more small feedings a day will help and something for what ails him. A general antibiotic maybe?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have vet that can run a fecal? That would be the best, in my opinion, rather than treating for something the bird may not have.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

I agree but the only vet around I do not trust..last time he did a fecal he said they had cocci and worms. The meds killed my entire flock, except for 3.
The 2 other vets around here don't treat birds. It is a farming community.
So I think I will follow my instincts and decide what to do.
Thanks so much for all the help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, Aldante had quite a horrible episode a couple of years back due to a vet.

You might try getting some Terramycin (or comparable) ophthalmic ointment for the eyes but you might also go with an Amoxicillin or Clavamox as a starter antibiotic. Do you have access to either one of those?

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

aldante said:


> I agree but the only vet around I do not trust..last time he did a fecal he said they had cocci and worms. The meds killed my entire flock, except for 3.
> The 2 other vets around here don't treat birds. It is a farming community.
> So I think I will follow my instincts and decide what to do.
> Thanks so much for all the help.


Your instincts are best because you can actually see the bird and observe it. I have several vets in my area that don't have experience with birds but will run a fecal. I call first to see if its ok and if it is, I do a poop drop off to their clinic. 
They give me a call with the results.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I have a little experience with short-faced breeds and they seem more vulnerable to respiratory infections and other health problems than pigeons with larger beaks. I don't have any specific suggestions for your little guy, but in the future definitely foster the Budapest babies out. Rollers make excellent fosters for tiny short-faced breeds. I know a pigeon breeder who loves to get my rollers because they are such good fosters. If you can find someone in your area who raises rollers perhaps you can get birds they don't want to use as fosters. They might even be willing to give them to you.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Well thanks for all the concern!
Stevie's eyes were clear this morning and he ate with gusto.
Last night he jumped up on my sister's leg and did a lovely poop down the legs of her jeans AND he pecked 4 times at the grain!!!
The capuchine didn't eat yesterday so I fed him last night and this morning.
Neither seem to be at death's door anymore so I will carry on with the small feedings and keep trying to teach them to eat seeds.

I have a roller/fantail couple that are excellant fosters, also a Capuchine pair. She can't lay eggs but will raise any eggs I give her. The Capuchines are great parents. The Budapest do try but have troubles.

I gave Stevie some Baytril. I prefer it for respiratory problems. I use it on my chickens, cats and rabbits with great sucess.
So I will keep everyone posted and thanks for all the great advice. Hopefully in a couple of weeks these two will be eating on their own!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks for the encouraging update. Baytril should help. Keep us posted on their progress.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Hello again. After a long weekend here in Canada the only news I have is that Stevie is now making more noises than before. The capuchine is eating a bit of seed when I am there so that is good.BUT STEVIE will absolutely not eat seed. He will watch the others do it but will not even try. I am beginning to think I will be hand feeding him for life!! I even tried skipping a meal to persuade him but no way..ended up feeding him. He is either very stubborn or very dumb!!lol 
I will try to post pics if I can ever get the mash out of his feathers. He is more lively though. The baytril definately helps.!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

A New York member had a squeaker that absolutely wouldn't eat and the member kept feeding it and feeding it and feeding it... They discussed how the inside of his beak might be deformed or his tongue was wrong, this and that until finally in despair she sent it to a rehabber upstate who no doubt threw it in the loft with the rest of 'em and didn't feed it and so he had to learn on his own. There was quite a celebration when the announcement was made that he'd learned to eat. I don't think they ever had gone so much as more than 10 hours without feeding him formula.

Pidgey


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Stevie went DAYS without food. When I pulled him out of the loft he was limp. Of course he was younger then. I also believe he can eat but I quess with him being so thin now is not the time to do tough love. Soo I will continue feeding him and when he gains some weight we will have to have a little discusion between the 2 of us about feeding!
Thanks


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Would it be possible for you to give him a companion that can eat in front of him to teach him? That worked for me a couple years ago with a short-faced baby that had a really hard time learning to eat. Her foster parents stopped feeding her and I was tubing her and it took her forever to learn to eat on her own. What finally helped was putting her nest-mate in the cage with her. She saw him eat and she learned to eat, too.


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