# Found a little sweetie...need some advice!



## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

Boy am I excited to find this forum! I've been searching for over a week for pigeon people!!!

Anyways, here's my story (sorry if it's long!) 

Last week a friend and I were driving to the work when I noticed a little bird dragging itself around with its wing on the side of the freeway. I freaked out, and we got off the highway, turned around, and came back to the bird. (I'd raised poultry for a long time as a young girl and a teenager, so I have a fondness for feathers)

I was able to use a laundry basket I had in the backseat of the car to create a towel-lined container for the bird, and I was easily able to rescue her from the side of the road and get her into the basket. From my examination, I could tell that she was a young bird (I could note "lips" on her beak and slight baby feather sticking out her almost adult plumage). I also noted that she was unable to move her legs. The rest of her was quite mobile, and her eyes were bright and alert. She was just unable to move her legs or even grasp a finger with her toes when her feet were pressed, which seemed to be a bad sign for a bird that would naturally perch.

My original intent was to take her into the office and call around to various wildlife rehab places to see if any around me would be able to help her. When I got to work, several people who also keep an eye out for injured animals gave me some advice on places to call. I spent a good portion of the morning trying to find a place that would help her, but I was shocked by the general tone from the places I called. Most of the shelters pretty much scoffed at the fact that this was a pigeon, and every one of them told me that if I brought her in that she'd immediately be euthanized! I couldn't believe it!!!

By this time, I'd been able to get her to drink quite a bit of water. She was calm and alert in her basket under my desk, and when I looked at her I knew that I couldn't in good conscience take her to get put down when she didn't seem to be in any kind of pain or distress.

I went out to the pet store and picked out an assortment of dove and pigeon food, grit, and egg supplements. I made her a mix of the assortment of stuff, and she was willing and able to eat.

When I took her home that night, I decided to put her in a larger box. I lined a large Dell box with towels, and placed her into it. I noted that she seemed a bit off kilter since she couldn't support her weight without her leg muscles, so I made her a little "nest" out of one of my shirts and nestled her into it. When feed and water was placed in front of her, she'd happily peck away at it and eat.

I was concerned at first that the leg paralysis could mean lower paralysis and affect her bowels, but the next day she proved me wrong  

I've had this little darling in my care for about a week now, and she seems to remain content and increasingly feisty. I have a routine of keeping her in her box when I am at work, and then taking her out to give her a change of pace when I get home. She'll happily sit on my lap when I watch tv and wiggle around a bit. At night when I go to bed, I place her in the original round laundry basket (which I've lined with towels like a nest) and hang it from a large hook on my closet door so she can remain up high and still see out. I'll cover it up on the top for safety, and when she's in this little "nest" she gets very protective of her space, hissing and pecking when you stick fingers in, hehe 

I came home today to find that she had somehow managed to fly up and out of the large box that she was once only able to scoot around in. She'd managed to get up and over the raised side and get all the way across the room she was in. When I found her, she was none the worse for wear and just complained at me with a peep when I picked her up. It was then that I swear I noticed one of her legs moving! One leg remained quite crippled, but the other seemed to be outstretched and I could notice a slight bit of toe movement and spreading. 

I was ecstatic! I have been so worried that I've been prolonging this poor bird's life and that she may not be happy if she can't walk. However, her perkiness and this latest thing gives me a bit of hope!

Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before? I've been scouring online to see if perhaps the leg paralysis could be due to something parasitic or stress related. I'd originally thought she fell off the overpass or got nicked by oncoming traffic, but when I found her she seemed to not be injured and there was no sign of broken bones or even feather disruption. It was so strange.

If anyone has any advice for me and my "Squidge", I'd really appreciate the feedback. I'd really like to help this bird and even if she remains relatively immobile, I'd like to give her a chance as long as she remains chipper and seems happy (how do you tell a happy pigeon anyways???)

Thanks for reading this and I hope someone has some advice for me since I'm kind of new to this pigeon-mom thing


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Hello, I have Private Messaged a member that I think can advise you on your questions. Don't go away.

Feather


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm sorry he must have logged off before my message reached him.

We have many caring members that can advise you on your problem. You may have to wait until tomorrow for an answer. I am sorry that you have gone through this week without any moral support. Your little featherd friend found you at just the right time. Thank you so much for going back for her.

Feather


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

Oh I'm sure not going anywhere...you guys are stuck with me now


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryiin, 


Well...he has certainly had quite an adventure so far..!

And so have you..!


Can you make some digital images of him, and either upload them somewhere, or post them here?


Weak Legs...

Can result from strain, sprain, or cracked or broken bones...from 'hard' landings, or from collisions with automobiles, trucks and so on...

If the function of the orbits of his Legs, if they will articulate in thier normal range and angles of movement, there may still be a cracked bone, but if a definite fracture, where a bone is broken in half, then the Leg(s) will show lateral movement or be limp...

Their thigh is mostly under the skin on thier side, and can be hard to 'feel' when wishing to feel for breaks, which can be subtle...

Back injuries or kidney infections or inflammation from illness or internal strains can also render their Legs temporarily useless, or, if nerve damage is severe, then possibly useless for a long time, or even permenently...but all the ones I ever worked with, thier Legs came back.

A couple weeks is not unreasonable for strains or sprains...

Same for breaks, but breaks of course should be 'set' in order to heal well...

Nerve injuries can take weeks or months or many months to heal...



So, this seems to be a young Pigeon...and maybe was new at being in the wider World...maybe got clipped by a car, or off a windshield...


The bones of the Wing, are very similar to the bones of our arms...

And, similarly to the above, a strain, sprain or cracked bone or broken bone, will take a couple weeks to heal...but it is pretty critical, if a broken bone, that the bone be set and stabalized properly...

And if decidely for sure a sprain or strain, and not a broken Bone, then the Wings may be immobalilzed by taping the ends of the Primary Feathers ( the longest Feathers of the Wings) together where they would meet over the Bird's lower back.

So, for now, these are two of the main issues here I would gather.

Now, you can make a simple sling top elevate him so that his Legs can dangle while the injury heals.

I do this with a small towell ( 12 by 14 inch or so) by cutting two 25 cent piece holes, evenly, about two inches in from the edge, for their legs to go through, but these must be spaced so there is no binding or pulling when he is in it,l against his inner leg area, so somtiems it takes a couple trys, and towell ends, to get it right...and then fold this edge in so it is double there since it will be under their butt more or less, but it should be inside to their Vent so they can poop over that folded edge...

So, for the other edge, one folds it back also, so that when they are in this body sling, it too will be about the right length for it to end just under their Crop or so...

One then suspend this by bringing together the front two corners, and bringing togather the rear two corners, and useing clothes pins, Metal spring clips for Office Papers, or something anyway, to hang the whole just a couple inches above the bottom of their Cage or pen..and one puts their food and water then in easy reach of their Beak...or you can suspend it from four point too which is fine, or even better really.


Let us know what the poops look like, color, size, consistancy, and how many per hour and so on...


Where are you?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

PS, 

Sorry, I am tired and my reading comprehension is even worse than usual...


'Seattle'...



You say he HAS "flown" then? Indoors, from his Basket?


If so then, we shall assume his Wings are either fine, or had been injured somewhat...so, if either Wing 'droops' when he is at rest, DO gently tape the ends of his Primaries together, over the small of his Back, to stabalize and immobalize his Wings for a week or so, to let the sprain/strain/injury get some healing done for itself...

If the Wings are fine and neither droops, then maybe STILL tape them to keep from further impetuousities for his Legs to heal...


Examine his Legs very carefully, and feel them decidedly all along each long bone to see if you can feel any subtle lumps or swelling or breaks...their thighs are almost invisible and are hard to feel because they are up high and run horozontally more or less, and are under their skin also, and their Hip Joints are on the sides of the TOP of the small of their Back...

So...see what you can find there with that...


No more 'flying' for the time being..!


Phil
el ve


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi Ryiinn,

I enjoyed reading your story and welcome to PT . I'm so glad you rescued this poor bird and are providing a loving, safe and comfortable home. It sounds like you are doing all the right things. I'm sure there will be plenty of good advice from others here soon who are much more knowledgeable than I regarding bird health matters and rehabilitation.

Your story reminded me of a young crow I rescued years ago that also had paralysis of both legs and couldn't fly. I found him in the middle of a public park in the pitch dark as I was walking the dog. I took him to a vet who suspected he would regain sensation and movement but I don't recall being given a reason for this. I suspect he may have attempted to fly without his full compliment of flight feathers and perhaps bruised some nerves on impact. My 'physio' sessions with the bird included trying to get him to perch on a low branch with support and move him gently up and down so he could gain some strength in his wings as he flapped away. Gradually he regained strength in his legs and managed to grip the branch well. He was eventually released (perhaps a little too soon with hindsight) in a busy country park during the summer to maximise his food prospects. He didn't even hang around to say thanks lol just flew off high into the trees. I often think of him (Jake) and wonder if he managed to survive. I'm sure he did, crows are smart birds.

I look forward to hearing more about Squidge's progress.

Ah I see Phil has posted with good advice to help you out while I posted. 

Lindi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Ryiinn,

I absolutely loved the story of the rescue and progress of this youngster.

Thank you for rescuing this needy bird. He was lucky you happened to come by.

Have you tried some avian vitamin and mineral supplements?

The problem could also be a lack of calcium which can disable them, or lack of minerals and nutrients which would slow down healing should this be an injury. 

I would add some probiotics, avian or human grade, to his diet to further help assimilate and uptake the nutrition he is now getting. It will also enable good bacteria to thrive and crowd out any bad bacteria that he may be harboring in the gut.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What a great rescue story. Thank you for all you do for this sweet pigeon.
Her story is similar to my Jane's. She also had her legs completely paralized, she couldn't walk or even stand and she wasn't flying and my vet wanted to euthanize her. 
The cause for the paralysis is hard to tell, could be anything from trauma, malnutrition and viral infection.
Anyways since s/he is eating drinking and being happy she deserves to live.
I did pretty much with Jane what you are doing with your bird. 
Good supportive care is key, good nutrition, warmth and love.
Some extra calcium and probiotics can help and certainly won't hurt her.
I also gave Jane daily warm baths and let her move her legs in the water. I filled a tub with warm water and was holding her. I don't know if it helped but after two months she was able to fly very well. 
Her legs are crippled, they are bent and she cannot walk but she flies wherever she wants to go and she perches well on flat surfaces.

I am glad you didn't let her be euthanized. She sounds like she has made progress already and so there is hope that she even will get much better.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Welcome to PT! 

We are all rootin' for Squidge! Sounds like he will have a wonderful home!

Do keep us updated!


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

These are such fantastic replies guys! I am so amazed that there are people out there that care and know as much about pigeons as you all do!!!

I'm going to give you all as much info as I can based on your replies

As far as I can see, Squidge's wings are completely healthy. She is able to move both of them fully, and was able to fly around a bit. As a matter of fact, her wings seem to be quite strong, as they are what she is using to compensate for her inability to move her legs. I'd initially considered trimming her primaries, but I haven't done that in quite some time and I had initially thought she would be unable to fly around at all so I held off. I like the idea of taping the primaries quite a bit better, although I'm thinking she's be maaad at me if she can't scoot around.

Her legs are the part that completely puzzles me. I will take pics with my digital camera tonight after work so you all can see what I am talking about. 

Right now, her left leg (I believe its the left from memory) seems to be a lot weaker than her right leg (which is the one I mentioned that I though I saw a bit of motion in). She tends to keep this weaker leg curled up close to her body, with her toes curled in. 

The other, obviously stronger leg, she tends to keep extended...almost to the point of looking uncomfortable to me. Initially, I would lift her and shift her weight to a more natural position, but she'd always wiggle right back to the foot-forward position. The position worried me greatly at first, as it was a position that reminded me of my old poultry days and pics of chicks with Marek's, but she isn't exhibiting any signs of anything like that thankfully. 

I've felt both of her legs all the way to her little thighs to see if I could detect any lumps, contusions, abrasions, or other physical abnormalities. I couldn't find anything I noticed as out of place, and she never seemed to be in any kind of pain or discomfort from me feeling her legs. After feeling the legs up and down, I tried extending and contracting each one to see how her range of motion felt. I noticed that both legs felt a bit stiffer than I'd expected. I am also noticing that her musculature in her legs (especially in the weaker one) seems to have almost atrophied (which I suppose is understandable considering she isn't able to exercise them at all).

I never thought of the sling idea, and I am really liking that idea quite a bit. I realized that I would need to give her support to lift her body and chest from the ground, but I'd simply made a donut nest out of one of my shirts to do this. I can see how letting her little legs dangle a bit may be very helpful. I am going out within the next few days to purchase a large cage for her, so I think that a sling would work quite well with this setup. If I did the sling, how long and often should I put her in it? Would it be something that she should be suspended in all of the time with food and water in her reach, or should I give her some time to lay down as well so she doesn't get stressed?

As far as her poop goes, she'll poop every morning like clockwork when I take her out of her laundry basket nest. She'll also poop in the evening sometime. I've noticed a few dropping scoots on her towel when I got home on several occassions, but it seems like she tends to avoid pooping on herself if she can (which suprised me). Her poops are about 1 to 1 1/2 inch "plops", and they are greenish-brown and white. Not too runny, but too firm either. Definitely smelly though  I'm not really sure how else to describe poop....I can take a pic if I need to, lol!

When you mention that a pigeon's hip joints are towards the top of their backs, I am wondering if I noticed a bit of a bump there that I thought unusual. I don't quite recall if it was something abnormally large or not though. I'd just felt around and thought it was feathers over bone. I'll examine that closer when I get home to be sure. Again, she wasn't uncomfortable when I'd feel around there.

I haven't tried any vitamins, as I wasn't sure the best ones to try. Would vitamins obtained at a pet store for parrots/parakeets be OK for her? I know that some species of birds need different things so I wanted to research things before I started giving supplements. Can anyone recommend common brands or types of supplements that would be helpful? As far as calcium goes, I'm giving her access to fine hi-cal grit (which she seems to be eating quite well as far as I can tell). Should I supplement her more?

That's a wonderful story about Jane, and that definitely gives me hope for Squidge in the aspect that even if she is unable to walk normally that she could still live a happy life  I think I may try the bath idea, as she has some crusty poop on her weaker leg that she keeps under her. Can you recommend anything to bathe her in? Should I just use warm water?

Something else I've noticed from holding her is that she seems to have a mild case of feather mites. They are tiny, rice-shaped little bugs that fall off of her on occassion. I've done some reasearch on what to use to treat her, but I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on things that work better than others? I know bath solutions and dusts are both available. What works best and is most comfortable for the bird?

Again, guys...I am so thankful for all of your feedback! I will watch this forum all day at work and I promise to post pics when I get home 

Squidge and I thank you all so much!!!!!!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The Hi-cal grit is what I use for my birds, it is good. I also used to give my birds the vitamins they have at Petsmart for parrots. Now I have to many birds and it too expensive and I prefer the vitamins they sell at the Pigeon Supplu Houses.
Just warm water is ok for her baths.
I like the sling idea if she has broken legs, but for paralysis I prefer them to use the legs as much as possible.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryiin, 



You found her on a freeway or something? Nest to the divider?

Well, if one Leg is tending to be extended, and there are differing degrees of resistance when you manipulate the Legs..and if one seems slightly atrophied...

This does sound like nerve injury/damage issues to me.

Enhanced nutrition will be a good thing to do generally as well as it will help this matter.


"B" Vitamines are good for this. But one must be very careful not to overdose them. 

For which reason, I tend to use Natural ingredients or foods which are good sources of various Vitamines and Minerals, instead of concentrated or synthetic Vitamines.

Brewer's Yeast powder is a good Natural source of various 'B' Vitamines.

Calcium and Magnesium and Phospherous are important for this also, and Leafy Greens are very good sources, but not all Pigeons will eat them.

So, Calcium based Grits can be good then...


I would guess that your Bird is either having bowel compromises from nerve injury ( if they had injured their lower back, it can effect both the bowels and their Legs...) or, is trying to hold their poop for long periods so as not to soil themselves as they are laying down.

I had a Pigeon a while back who appearently had suffered a lower back injury, and he similarly only pooped around 5:00 in the afternoon, and it would tend to be an enormous one, and smelly.

If they are healthy, and poop normally, there is no odor to speak of with their poops.

Where, if they hold them in for long periods, when nesting/brooding, or for other reasons, the poops will be larger, sometimes much MUCH larger, and be smelly.

This is not good for the Bird either, to hold them in like that.



Normally, a Pigeon poops about 30 to 40 or even 50 'Raisen' size poops-a-day...some more, some less, some make smaller ones, some make larger ones.

So, the Sling has potentially some advantages in allowing them to poop over the edge of it when they are suspended, especially when it is their Legs that are injured with no nerve issues...but with nerve injury, when it effects their Legs and bowells also, their reason for holding it is not always entirely one of prudence or modesty.

Good nutrition and time and love, will aid him in his recovery, and with nerve injury, this can take months.


I have one presently who had injured herself flying into a second story window and fell onto the cement and gravel then from there. This was quite a while ago now...

Anyway, she had a lot of problems from that mishap, and her legs would just stick out straight and rigid, which made it impossible of course for her to walk or stand, she would just fall over forward and flail...so I used to just sort of prop her up with some soft things, and elevated her food and water...

Anyway, I did not do the sling for her, but it was tolerable somehow for us both, with just muddleing on like we did, and over time she improved and recovered very well, but it did take months all tolled. She had co-ordination problems when trying to use her wings, her Tail stuck out all to one side...

Now she is the image of a plump happy hen, flying perfectly, she has a mate who was also here because he was badly injured, and he got well also. Her take offs and landings are excellent/normal, everything came back very well but for one droopy eyelid.

I am very proud of her...


'Butt Baths' in the bathroom sink, letting the sink fill three or four inches, just plain Water is fine, or a little bit of Baby Shampoo even...massaging their butt from underneath with one's fingertips...warm water of course...drain the water and repeat so lastly, the water is clean and a nice massage rinse occurs...is a nice thing to do for them when they soil their Feathers under there. Just support her in one hand, and do the cleaning/massage with the finger tips of the other.

Trying to have her lay in a do-nut one can improvise from bending a rolled towell, is very good of course, if hse will oblige it and stay put, but some do not stay put well at all with that arrangement...or when they have to poop they start skooting around trying to leave it behind them or something. which of course just gets it all over them all the more.

When I have 'Sling Birds', they are in the sling continuously, except for when I take them out to hold them in my lap or other for some social time...or, when we do mock flying with me holding them by the body from below, where we walk around and I let them flap their Wings as if flying, and I make dive bombing airplane sounds and so on for them to have some fun and to have a respite from the boredom of 'The Sling'...

If you very lightly 'glisten' her Seeds with a little fresh, new Bottle Olive Oil ( do not use any you already have unless you bought it last week or since then, and do not use ANY old OIl ever of any kind for them) you can then add powdered Brewer's Yeast, powdered or small flake Purple Dulce, or other powdered natural uppliments and they sill stick to the Seeds so the Bird gets them as they eat.

She may have fallen when still too young to fly well enough, been clipped by a car, or in some way, injured her lower back, where their spine can be effected with nerve injury there.

If this is somehow a nutritional issue and not a result of tramua, then the regimen would still be the same, but usually weak Legs from nutritional lacks in babyhood, tend to splay or otherwise effect the Legs so that they are not in their right fore and aft manner, and stick out in odd or sideways ways.

Can you post some images?

Can you weigh him in grams?


Good luck...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Smelly poop?*

Hi again,

Smelly poop maybe in indication of an infection going on and/ or a bacterial problem. Can you have a fecal done?

It is possible the bird has Salmonella or /and another bacterial infection. There are four forms of the disease, intestinal, joint, organ and nervous. A strong intestinal infection can cause it to go in the blood stream and effect the bone joints, and from there to the organs and nerves. Baytril would be the drug of choice for Salmonellas.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tressa, 


I think the Pigeon is only pooping a couple times a day, and holding it in the rest of the time...and making big ones, when pooping does occur.

This will make for some pretty smelly poops...since various bacteria of course do continue to propigate beyond their normal opportunities.

Like when we see those off-the-nest poops...nesting Pigeons will make.

Eeeeeeeeesh!

I almost broke my neck slipping on one of those one time...it was the size of one's Big Toe for pete's sake, even bigger maybe, and I saw it while I was doing something and could not get to it, then forgot it was there and slipped on it when walking back into the room...

As good as or better than one of those old Vaudeville 'Bananna peels'...!

Lol...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yuck, Phil!

You don't need to tell EVERYTHING you know... ya' know?

The only thing that I worry for here is that the "one leg forward" reminds me of my Chance, who's been gone now for five years. Chance stubbornly stuck one leg forward and the other one was atrophied some. Actually, his entire left side didn't do as well, even the wing feathers were slower to grow. I'd fly him around the house and he'd flap those wings, the right one strongly and the left one weakly. He did get better but he was never "right". I've always believed that it was a Salmonella vertical transmission deal with him (got it when he was still in the egg).

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Phil,

That is so funny, LOL.

I appreciate your thoughts and I love all your wonderful variety of foods for the birds.

I have two hens sitting on dummies and every day I MAKE them go outside to get fresh air and sunshine. They lay *enormous*poops in the aviary and I have to get the hose out and spray them off the floor.

The point here is, they DO have a certain odor, but it isn't really what I consider to be smelly. It is also quite distinct from coccidosis poopy smell. Smelly to me would indicate, a very strong pungent odor.


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

I can't vouch for slippery (thank goodness) but I can vouch for room-evacuating rank for sure 

I am pretty sure that she IS holding it in. I'll have to see when I get home how many poops are in the box.

I'll be sure to take those pics later on. I'm not sure if I have access to anything that can weigh her in grams, but I will check around the office and see if we have a mail scale I can borrow or something.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryiinn, 



Well, what we need to do here is to see how confident we can be about whether this Leg issue, arises from possible nerve injury/trauma, possibly occuring from a hyperextention or contusion to the Bird's lower back in some accident, or, from some bacterial-illness problem such as Salmonella...or some illness effecting her Kidneys that can effect her sciatic or other nerves in that region.


I have been sort of voting for nerve injury/trauma, oweing to the poop-habits lending some affirmation to a lower back injury scenario, which can effect the bowells' regularity as well as the Legs...but...

But this is just a guess of course, and I have only seen these kinds of things a few times...where I myself have not seen any impediments incidental to Salmonella/Paratyphoid ilness and consequences, like others here have.

So, Pidgey and others possibly, need to see if there are any other things to be looking for here, to decide if some course of specific antibiotics or other meds might be prudent.

Can you see if there is any swelling of the Bird's Wing Joints? especially the ones closest to her body? If one side has a swollen joint, it will be easy to tell ny feel, in contrast to the other non-swollen joint on the other Wing...

If this is from a Nerve injury, the somewhat atrophied Leg would have to have needed some time for their difference to be appearent...and if so, the Bird would have had a very difficult time surviveing if it was not flying and able to land and take off and so on...so..this is kind of puzzleing to me...

Unless only that Leg had been effected by a nerve injury/trauma, ( if that is possible for onely one Leg to be effected) and she'd been getting by on one Leg, then sprained or strained the one 'good' Leg and then became grounded...

Same with possible Paratyphoid/Salmonella scenarios...if it was effecting them enough to atrophy one Leg, how did the Bird survive till you found it?

Unless, if as a young Paratyphoid surviver, it was getting by on one '
good' Leg, after fledging, and had been forraging for itself, then maybe strained or sprained that one 'good' Leg, to then be grounded...when you found them.

A grounded Pigeon will seldom survive very long, or even for a day really without someone careing for it...and it will really erode it's feathers in no time also, if literally on the 'ground' trying to move themselves with their Wings only...so...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As to the nerve issue, it was always my belief in my earlier years that all the nerves ran up and down the spine. In fact, the nerve for the intestinal tract is a different nerve that doesn't go down the spine. You'll like this, Phil, it's called the "vagus" nerve (pronounced like Las Vegas) which means "wandering".

Anyhow, motor control goes down the spine and, as you've said, the specific nerves for the legs (the sciatic nerve) goes through the kidneys. It is possible for there to be pressure from an infection (e.g., E. coli) of the kidneys that would pressure that nerve, causing weakness/paralysis (medically: paresis). On the practical side, it's a 'how are you going to prove it?' deal. If the thought was strong that way, you'd prescribe a suitable antibiotic and see if the patient "responded to therapy".

Frankly, a lot of the time we do better when we shoot first with antibiotics and ask questions later. I'll have to go back and read all Ryiinn's posts again, now.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, Ryiinn,

Go here and study the skeletal drawings:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

It is notoriously difficult to discover some fractures of the leg because of the feathers and the fact that it might be close enough to a joint that it seems to work just fine. I've had several pigeons hop around at my feeder over the years who eventually got better quite on their own. I've also had some broken legs that I could only tell that the leg was broken because the bird wouldn't stand on it. After some splinting and time, they just got better and so I've always assumed that that's what they had. If your bird's leg isn't out of position, he can certainly heal on his own in time without intervention if that's what it is. In such cases, they just get better and better until they're finally limping around and then they just start looking normal.

If, however, you can prove that the joint was broken (and you shouldn't be able to now because it's been too long, by the way) with an X-Ray, then you'd have a better idea whether the problem was a break or something more along the lines of a damaged nerve. It's always a suspect thing when you find a pre-fledgling out of the nest and on the ground. Usually, their nests are "up there" fairly high and if they can't fly worth a crap then they had to get down somehow that was probably faster than it should have been.

For the bird that I mentioned in an earlier post, Chance, the vet thought that the problem wasn't in the body or nerves, but rather the brain. As such, there wasn't anything to do but help the bird try and work the brain more. I'd hold his wings to steady him while I helped him walk, I'd hold him under the body and fly him (remember, his entire left side was underdeveloped) and so forth until we got him nearer towards normal. He really tried, and tried hard.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Pidey!

So hmmmmm...


What to do?

Should this Pigeon be recomended for a regimen and course of treatment of appropriate antibiotics, for treating a possible e-coli or salmonella illness?

Is he about full grown? ( We do not really know yet...) 

Does he have 'white' Ceres? ( the fleshy part where their Beak meets their forehead..)

Is he a sub-audult then or late juvenile?

He evidently eats by himself...so...

What medicines would be the best choice if one was gunna?


Well...regardless, or no matter the cause of his Leg issue(s)...

One good thing about a comfortable Sling...IF the Bird can put up with being in it!

Is that the Legs can dangle in a controlled way, at a certain distance from the figurative 'ground' or cage bottom or whatever...

And one can suspend the Bird so that their Legs can just touch bottom, or so their legs can be flat footed if the Bird wants, or a little more, so they can actually 'push' with their Legs to their heart's content ( and they usually will, too, Legs permitting ) , with the Sling holding them up just that far, and so they can and will in effect excercise their Legs this way, all on their own by pushing within whatever the set limit is one has arranged for...according to their ability to do so.

Helium Balloons would be great for this too, of one knew any 'Birthday Clowns' or something to get them from easily.

I intend to try that one of these days...that way, the Patient can at least 'float' around the House in their Sling, visit other Birds and so on, and not be stuck in one place all day...but of course one would want to make sure the Sling was quite secure, so they can not wriggle out of it when up near the ceiling or something...AND, to keep the doors to the outside 'closed' to they can not float "out" and up and UP and so on...to were one is calling the FAA or something to let them know...but this only for the true Dangley-Leg mode where no self excerciseing/'pushing' is wanted...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Yuck, Phil!
> 
> You don't need to tell EVERYTHING you know... ya' know?
> 
> ...



I TRULY resisted making the above comments BUT, the devil in me would NOT rest, soooo, I just had to give in and post to get some PEACE!!!  

Please pardon my interruption...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> I TRULY resisted making the above comments BUT, the devil in me would NOT rest, soooo, I just had to give in and post to get some PEACE!!!
> 
> *Please pardon my interruption*...


I'll try, but to be honest, it ain't lookin' too good...

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> I'll try, but to be honest, it ain't lookin' too good...
> 
> Pidgey



*Oops! Sorry!!! But I DO feel sooooo much better... *


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

Yay! The forum is back! 

I took some pictures of Squidge this morning as requested. Some progress to note with her is that last night my friend called me up all excited, saying that he came home to her propped up like a little tripod on her two wings and LEG! It was a stronger of the two legs, but she's starting to kind of use it again.

This morning when I took the pictures, I even noticed a slight bit of movement in her usually tucked away leg. When I went to take the pictures, I noticed that her weaker leg didnt' even seem to be tucked away like usual! This is great progress for her...I am so happy.

Anyways, here are some pictures of her thus far. I think I am going to try the "butt bath" tonight to clean off her legs...I got home from work super late last night and didn't have time to do it then.


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

A few more pics!


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

OK...last one!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, she's (or he's) lookin' good so far. Whatever it is, it's getting better!

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great pics and a lovely bird.
You know, her legs look like my Jane's. I wonder if it is some virus that cause the leg paralysis and crippling.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That certainly is good news. The pictures are really great.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryiinn, 


This is a Juvenile who is not long out of the Nest...

Very pretty youngster! wonderful Wings..!

The slightly atrophied Leg may have gotten broken some while ago, and has been healing in the mean time while he was on his own, and if he was getting by with one leg, he may very well have injured it in a landing or a night-fright fly and landing...or however so. To then end up as you found him.


So check again very carefully for any swollen areas even if slight, of the weaker Leg...

And if you can, find a way for him to be able to rest both legs for another week at least...

Rig up a sling...experiment with that...

Otherwise he will be pushing the use of one or both legs possibly prematurely...


Thats my sense of it anyway...


Best wishes you two!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mountainstorm (May 3, 2006)

Ryiinn, 

I can see already that this is a different situation to mine, although somewhat similar. My bird, Cielo, came from under an overpass. He was too young to fly, although fully feathered. He must have fallen and broken his right drumstick. I splinted it and also his toes to keep them from permanently curling under.

Anyway, my point is, for a few weeks, he had no grip to his right foot, whether from pain upon movement, or nerve damage, I don't know. But now he walks normally, except for a very slight limp, which is not so noticeable when watching him, but is more pronounced when listening to the tick-tick his claws make, and when he walks along my back I can feel the difference in his weight shift.

I wish the best for Squidge. Oh, yeah, for grit, I use Kay-tee HiCal, and I use a wheat germ blend for moulting for his feathers--very shiny and gorgeous. He didn't have any iridescence when he came to me, but last week he finished moulting his juvenile neck feathers and he has bright shiny green neck.

I'm glad you took Squidge in.

Rach


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Ryiinn!

Your little one is lookin' good! What a lovely pijie! 

Sure hope all goes well...sending BEST HEALING WISHES AND HUGS to you and Squidge!!

I know you will keep us updated!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a lovely youngster and great pictures! I'm glad there seems to be some good progress!

Terry


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

Thanks guys 

I will give the sling idea a try and feel her legs for bumps and all of that. Regardless of what happens, I will keep all of you updated on her progress!

Thanks for all the help and advice. You guys are all so very amazing!


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Hi Ryiinn,
Squidge is one beautiful youngster, s/he was very lucky you were there to come to the rescue. like all the others I'm sending lots of healing positive energy Squidge's way


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhh...he is very pretty for sure...!

I have three right now of about his age and they are semi wild since they had been fed and raised till now by their perants. So these youngsters are flying around gaining muscle and skill in here, and being 'like Puppies' in their way...

If you can get him to eat minced up dried dark-sour Cherries, this may be very good for him and his Legs and Nerves and everything...

Trader Joes sometimes has them, but do not get the dried 'Bings', you want the other ones.

Same with fresh leafy Greens such as Kale or Endive or Chard...if you can get him to peck and tear off bits of these and eat them it will be very good for him...


If they see another Pigeon eating them, they will usually do it easily!

But it is harder for us to convince them, or set the example..!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

I'll be hitting the grocery store in the next few days, so I am going to get some of these suggested treats for Squidge and hope she likes some of them!

When I got home tonight I held her for about 2 hours or so and just talked to her. She preened herself and bobbed her head around and then closed her eyes and laid there in my hand with her little feet dangling through my fingers. Didn't even try to fly away or anything...she was completely relaxed and happy and docile. I love her so much 

I'm also very happy to report that her legs are even STRONGER than before! She can now wiggle both legs quite well, and running my fingers up and down both legs makes each one of them twitch, and makes her physically move each one. It's like she's getting feeling back in them and is finally able to start to move them around. During our little talking session, I "perched" her on my finger and was able to cautiously let go of her weight and let her "stand" on her own. She seemed quite content with this, and was able to grab on pretty nicely with her left back toe. 

Hooray for progress! Not only is she getting increasingly better, but I can feel her trusting me so much more


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

What happened to the pictures? They're not up this morning.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Lady Tarheel said:


> What happened to the pictures? They're not up this morning.


I don't know, Maggie. They were there yesterday .. the pics are links to a site that might be down for some reason right now.

Just checked .. says the domain expired on 09/09 ..

Terry


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

Well that's weird! I can still see them and it's my domain they are up on.

Can anyone see them but me? The images may just be cached on my end.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi, they're still not showing up at my end.


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## Kylex (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey everyone. I was the wheelman in Ryiinn's pigeon rescue. She really appreciates everyone's advice here and talks about it non-stop. I've comped all the pictures into one file so hopefully it's not too big, but wanted to repost them in case her pictures didn't come back up.


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## Kylex (Sep 14, 2006)

oops put two of the same picture in there.

That's what too much coffee will get you.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Kylex, thanks for posting those great pictures of Squidge. This is a beautiful young pigeon and it looks like Ryiinn's got the pigeon bug - maybe you too.  

Thanks to both of you for rescuing Squidge.


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