# Loft material



## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

I have been told to use cat litter on the floor of the loft. Is this a safe idea, we kind of thought it wasn't because of the chemicals, but it was an old, retired flyer that told me. Is there any material that can be used to soak up everything, keep smell to a minimal(?), and won't harm the pigeons?


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

over the years I've tried several different things. Alot will depend on how dry you can keep your loft during the rainy season and the type of flooring you have.

over the years many articles have also been written on the subject. from using the deep liter sytems to slotted flooring that allows the poop to fall down and outside the loft. 

could you tell us more about what type of loft you have structure, flooring, venting system, ect.


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## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

The floor is half inch treated plywood. The roof is like a hard plastic, no worry about rain. I am actually using our old "clubhouse", so it has two floors. On the top, there is an open window about two foot square. On the door are two small holes about three by four inches. There are also several sets of about four, 1/8-1/4 inch by 12 inch slits in it. Also, around the door there is about half inch space between the door and the wall.


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## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

Will sand work to put on the floor?


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Sand? I think your refering to the deep litter theory. 

I would recommend against it if their is any chance at all the material could become wet. It will become a breeding ground for every infection you can think of.

If your going to use something like that, then I would use cear or readwood shavings, they both have natural replants to bugs in them.

go to www.siegalpigeons.com and look under loft dressings in their catologe, I believe you can get it through Jedds as well. I personely use the Colombine Bianco loft dressing on my floors


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

My seed supplier, who is also the president of our local racing club, went away for 3 months and had his neighbor care for his birds. He has a two story house he designed & built speciallyfor his birds. Bottom floor is cement and top floor is plywood. He used the deep litter method with cedar shavings and had no problems at all.

I use the cedar shavings on a in some of my nests and it is wonderful and smells really nice. 

I use the Paloma floor white, in our large coop, on the plywood floor, and it keeps things dry and smelling fresh. we have to clean every two or three days.


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## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

Thanks, will pine shavings work? Also, does it matter if it is treated?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I can only recommend the cedar shavings, I wouldn't use pine, but anything treated, involves chemicals that could be potentially harmful to the birds. Pressure treated wood is highly toxic to humans, so it would be dangerous for the birds.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

You would be better off using the redwood or cedar shavings they have natural repellants in them that help keep the bugs away. If you wanted to cut the cost you could mix ether of them with the pine shavings. just remember the greater percentage of pine you use, the less effective ether will be at repelling the pests


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Shavings with birds that fly in the loft very much scatters it to corners. Filghty birds its just easyer to scrape the floor often to keep it clean. I have in the past used sand And changed it out monthly. It works ok at about 2 inches deep. But its work just changing it out. You might find its easyer to just scraping daily over all. .


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## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

I was wondering because i have shop class in school so i could probably get it from the school. Not exactly sure what kind of wood we use in shop.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I visited a big flier's loft(s) once where he used what looked like kitty litter in the bottom of his bird's individual breeding pens... which were about 3'x3'x3', maybe a bit bigger, maybe a bit smaller, but there abouts... anyway, my assumption was it was plain old kitty litter, no perfume, no clumping.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

uuuugh, cats, nasty things.......  

I can't say I've ever tried cat liter. my concern would be if the birds picked at it like grit or like they sometimes do when you first put down sand. I son't know if they have anything in the cat litter that would harm the birds if they injested it


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## sportsman (Apr 1, 2005)

I think i finally figured out what to use, shredded paper. We have a paper shredder so i will just shred some paper that would have been recycled. It soaks up liquid somewhat, i don't think it attracts bugs, and it's fairly cheap. Let me know if you think it would or wouldn't work.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

I can honestly say I never thought of using shredded paper. Not directly on the floor anyway. the only time I've seen paper used inside of a loft, The flier had slated floors, the pigeon poop fell down onto the tray below, this was lined with paper to make for easy clean up.

You could try it just make sure you still clean everything out once or twice weekly, and put down freash paper. make sure while your cleaning you pay special attention to any bug crawling around. If you see any bugs at all my suggestion would be to change over to the redwood or cedar chips immediately. 

Good luck and let us know how it works.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Lawman*

I see you are in california. How many hours are you from me? I hope the paper works out for you. I used it during the rainy season. But had to change it daily.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Well Now lets see, I work in San Bernardino and I live at the Other end of Richie Canyon in Moreno Valley. So depending on exactly where you live in S.B. were probibly no more than twenty miles apart.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

We used shredded paper in the nest boxes but it has to be cleaned everyday cause it gets wet & nasty easily. The cedar shavings last longer in the nest boxes without worrying about bugs.

The shredded paper on the floor scatters easily when the birds fly around.


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Funny -- I've heard over the years - never use cedar, it can be toxic to the birds - always use pine. LOL

Anyway -- we use pine shavings in our crates all the time - no problem. As already mentioned, as a loft dressing, it's useless - gets blown to the corners.

We've tried sand -- too dusty, birds seemed to always have breathing problems, until we got rid of it. I've heard that cat litter can cause the same problem.

Shredded newspaper and straw dressings are not good - hold moisture, which is bad for the birds (unless you're cleaning your loft every single day).

Bare floor is not bad for the birds - it's dry, and the birds don't spend a lot of time of the floor anyway. Plus, you can notice right away if there are any "poop" issues (runny, green, etc). A simple scrape once a day, and a good scraping of the perches, nest boxes, etc. once a week, and everything looks great! 

TRUE "deep litter" has no dressing at all, really -- its a build up of dried "poop", turned every so often to make sure it stays dry. (moisture is BAD, BAD, BAD for the birds....). Clean a bit out once in a while, to keep it from building up too deep (6" of "litter" is about right). Sounds horrible - but truly, it's not that bad - and there is a theory that it is good for the birds (after all, ferals living in old buildings use it, right? LOL). Something to do with building natural immunities, the younger birds picking through the litter - picking up small amounts of "good bacteria", etc.

We've used just about all the dressing over the last 10 years - and either bare floor or deep litter is what we find works best for us.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Your absolutely right about the mosture. It will cause fungus and mold build up, then your fighting a never ending battle with respiratory problems until you get it cleaned up. 

fortunatly here in So. Cal. we stay pretty dry all year, with the exception of just a couple of month's. 

I've never read anything about cedar being toxic to birds. although the bugs deffenitly don't like it. 

I personally use a combination (50/50 mix) of cedar and redwood shavings in my training crates. I also use it during the wet months inside the loft to aid in clean up, and drying out the loft.

In the loft I have wood floors and use Colombine Bianco (Parquet White) that I order in from Siegels supply on the net. this goes on like a baby powder almost. after cleaning the perches and floors I spead some on the flooring and use a broom to spread it around. dont leave any excess on the floor, any excess is removed from the loft so the birds dont create a dust cloud from the powder inside the loft. I don't believe it would hurt them, but then again its better not to take any chances.

once the Colombine Bianco (Parquet White) is down, like you said its very easy to spot anything wrong with their poop.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I can't stress enough the need for good ventilation and dry floors,and solid roof system with no leaks, it can cause so many problems. 

Living here in Florida we have found many ways to keep the coops dry. We have a ventilation system extended well below each wall near the roof, we keep the doors and windows open all the time. We run out and shut doors and windows before a good rain, and run out and open them after the rain is gone.

Also, with the extra dampness we scrape every other day, and use the white Paloma powder on the floor, which soaks any wetness left, should any rain come in. It is like a jungle here sometimes, so the need to scrape up the poopies promptly is a must.

Since we had several hurricanes last year, and the rain comes in sideways thru the ventilation, we have also found the need to know how to dry out everything *quickly* We dried out the inside, not from floods but sideway rain, in a day. The hot sun also provides quick drying time, and besides ventilation, opening up windows and doors is a must. We didn't have any standing puddles, just wet plywood. The dampness here also created the neccessity to build the floor at least a foot off the ground.


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