# Please help!



## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Hello all!
Im currently backing an argument pro-pigeons and was wondering if any body had an amazing source on zoonotic pigeon diseases. I keep seeing things about salmonella but strangely enough, there doenst seem to be any way to get the salmonella from pigeons unless you eat them and their not cooked properly, or you eat their eggs??!

Unfortunately, the person in question has decided to swallow a dictionary and is blurting out alot of info probably obtained from a pest control paid "scientist". 

Any help much appreciated. 

XxX


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Oh lord....I always hate it when people try to fight us on these things 

There's no practical way to contract salmonella from a pigeon unless, as you said, eat them/their eggs unproperly cooked. Also, if you get the bacteria on your hands and don't wash them before stickin'em in your mouth 

I'll see if I can find some reports from real scientists and real vets on the subject of pigeons passing diseases to humans.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here's one thing I've found. Off to find more.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epi-pigeon.shtml
Note how it says uncommon, and unlikely, with healthy people. Also, in the very beginning "SMALL health risks".


In case they hit you with comments about Avian Influenza. I'm surprised that wasn't the first concern they had...
http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers3.php
Most important parts in bold, of course.


Special attention to the part on Disease MYTH:
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=50
http://www.rmad.org/pigeons.htm


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks!
The welfare of some Pigeons in Cyprus is at stake.
People just don't want to believe that possibly they may be wrong!

Thanks again, its so so sooooo refreshing to find people who appreciate all our world's creatures!
XxX


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

We humans are quite stubborn, huh?  I've had to deal with a few kids in high school (which is just sad, IMO) that have been brainwashed just as many others...into believing everything they hear negative on pigeons. I couldn't convince them. As much as I know about pigeons, and as little as they know about pigeons, they still would NOT believe me  They just hate to think they're wrong, even though they really don't know these things to begin with. They just think they know the truth!

More stuff:
http://nycprc.org/FAQ.html#Is The Pigeon Dangerous To People?

Hopefully that link will work....copy/pasted it exactly like it was. Lots of good comments/quotes by pretty intelligent, important people.


Also,
http://www.pigeoncote.com/vet/recovery/recovery.htm#EXTINCTION
Has one of my favorite pigeon related comics too, haha 


Not sure if this is any good, but it does appear to be pro-pigeon once you read it. It does mention they're of little risk.
http://www.wildlife.pro/pigeon-disease.html


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The other day I was reading about wood pigeons in Wikipedia, it said that they carry germs like trichmoniasis and that it can be caught by humans in where it is considered a sexually transmitted disease. Total rubbish, of course as they are different trichomonads involved and the disease is not zoonotic , I tried to edit it to reflect the true situation but my edit was rejected, I was too tired to work out why. I will have to go back to that.

The more I read on the internet the more I fear for the welfare of pigeons, there is just so much convincing rubbish out there. At one stage all the councils seemed to havepublished information from the same source on pigeon diseases, which described Pigeon PMV and its effects on the nervous system, then said that was a zoonotic disease...to an extent it is, as a person that handles a pigeon with PMV and then rubs his eyes can develop mild conjunctivitis, but that is all...they implied that humans would be spinning, stargazing and seed tossing.


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Hee hee...can you imagine seeing a human seed tossing!!! 

Well something made my day this morning. I hadn't read what this person had put about pigeons. My mum and dad had told me that they had put a mini essay on the problems of pigeons and last night I was raring to prove them wrong. 

However, this morning I read what they had posted. Turns out they had simply copied and pasted a piece from this website: 
http://www.handr.co.uk/literature/feral_pigeons.htm
Funnily enough this is a website is written by a company who control pigeon populations. 

People are too predictable!


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Pleas watch this video if you did not allready:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JtTZqX2kLc
Hope it will help you.


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

ok,...

she's obviously not reading...she says the poo is disgusting and a health hazard....still....

apparently the 16 pairs (max) have made a disgusting mess on her penthouse


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well of course droppings are nasty if you aren't used to them. I would a whole lot rather pigeons be roosting on my house than dogs, cats, or horses, LOL 
But just because they may look or smell icky, doesn't mean the animal that made them is dangerous to our health  Definitely shouldn't jump to conclusions. See this is exactly where the disease myth started. Because people were tired of their precious cars and property getting hit by bird droppings, so they became a widely known pest. Adding 'they can transmit 40 different diseases to us and our pets' really helped the pest exterminators and poison making companies get more business. All just a bunch of lies.

I have a wonderful solution to this. Why don't we just set up a bunch of dovecotes around largely feral populated areas? Like they did hundreds of years ago. Not only will you be housing them there instead of on people's balconies and whatnot, but you could collect the droppings as important fertilizer for local farmers to buy. Plus, there's the added jobs of who collect those droppings, and/or possibly remove eggs they lay to keep them from multiplying as badly. Pigeons get a safe place to live, farmers get better crops, people have less poo to deal with - we're all happy, I think.


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Thank you for the link to the Pigeon Documentary-its brilliant!!

This lady obviously is just nasty...im just glad I can make sure the other people who read my replies will see the things Ive written as well as the rubbish she's put!

XxX


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Why don't we just set up a bunch of dovecotes around largely feral populated areas? Like they did hundreds of years ago. Not only will you be housing them there instead of on people's balconies and whatnot, but you could collect the droppings as important fertilizer for local farmers to buy. Plus, there's the added jobs of who collect those droppings, and/or possibly remove eggs they lay to keep them from multiplying as badly. Pigeons get a safe place to live, farmers get better crops, people have less poo to deal with - we're all happy, I think.


They have established "public" lofts for feral pigeons in Holland and Germany, and they are more attractive than numerous structures I've seen masquerading as "art"... (though I'm not sure how they keep quadruped predators out of it)
http://www.duivenoverlast.nl/pigeonloft.htm 
There's a video on youtube that's a 24 hour time-lapse collage of loft activity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfIe-ARHqoE

This page is rather unfortunately named, but actually explains why killing/removing pigeons doesn't solve any problems, and suggests some alternatives (with citations).
http://www.duivenoverlast.nl/pigeonnuisance.htm

hth


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Something like that would be nice too! I've seen the first loft pictured, but the other looks great as well. They look like pigeon lofts from the future, haha 


Edit: here's some pictures of the old Dovecotes and how they were used. I've seen some houses people have build from dovecotes. Those look pretty neat.
http://www.pigeoncote.com/dovecote/dovecote.html


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

*Update*

I've just discovered that the woman in question went onto another forum, for the same complex, complaining about the "disgusting havoc" the pigeons are creating. We are talking about a maximum of six pairs brooding young and six pairs visiting to drink from the pool. As i was unaware, I didn't post at all. Thankfully, someone copied and pasted my comments from her original forum post. 
Sadly, someone has given her details of a company who put up spikes and also someone mentioned a pest control company who shoot the pigeons. The person mentioning this seemed to regard poisoning as a more humane option!!! 
If these people go any further to harm these birds, me and my family will be writing to the management to prevent any body from doing anything stupid. 

These people make me so angry, its hard not to get into an argument with them. Sometimes I think that's what they want. 

I took a photo of these two nestlings on our last visit, bearing in mind this aircon unit on on the second flood!



If you look carefully you can see one of the babies. 

XxX


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

PoppyFieldVet said:


> ok,...
> 
> she's obviously not reading...she says the poo is disgusting and a health hazard....still....


Maybe you should tell her to read this book Everyone_Poops


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

Unfortunately, as long as the county and city allows it they CAN legally take care of the pigeons anyway possible...complaints or not. Because pigeons aren't Native to most areas, they are consider a problem, there no laws to protect them.

I agree, as long as the people that are around the pigeons are healthy people and aren't coming in close contact there is nothing to get. The odds of getting something in passing is very low...there are statistics on this...somewhere. I'll see if I can find them.

-Hilly


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Yea, one quote I found said you are more likely to be struck by lightning. Still, some people only read what they want to. I think I made a good argument. This woman seems to spend her whole life making arguments!


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