# I've had a fledgling pigeon for about 7 days... help!!



## quincar23

my husband found a fledgling pigeon on his construction work site, that almost got ran over and brought it home to me about a week ago... i have been feeding it "kaytee" baby bird food, about 2-4 tsp a feeding 3-4 times a day... i am totally clueless as to what to do to wean it, help it fly or anything... i am not even totally sure how old it is... i think its about 20 days old... please please, can somebody tell me what i need to do?


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## Feefo

By my reckoning 2-4 tsp is 10-20 mls. I don't think that is enough. This is from Nooti's instructions on hand rearing pigeons:



> At 2 weeks of age if they are growing ok, mine are usually on 40mls every 8 hours. Never give more than 40 mls at one sitting. Mine are usually picking up for themselves - the earliest has been 20 days, but certainly by 4 weeks.


They learn to fly by themselves given the space in which to do so, but some need to be taught how to peck at grain. You can teach him how to peck by using your fingers and pinching at grain or small seeds. You can also dip their beaks in water to encourage them to frink.

In my opinion a single hand reared pigeon would not adapt well to release into the wild. If they are to be released it is best if they spend some time with other pigeons...usually the father pigeon would be helping him in the adaptation process by taking him to places where there is food available.

Cynthia


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## quincar23

*this is his picture...*

this is his picture


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## quincar23

*thank you*

i obviously don't know how to attach a photo of him, i tried can't figure it out...
he won't eat any more than 20 ml's at a feeding.. but in total he eats about 80 ml's a day, is he starving? he doesn't act like it... at the beginning of each feeding he goes "crazy" he can't eat fast enough but at the end he just sits down and gets all cozy... thats why i thought he was full, so do you think i should try and make him eat more?


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## quincar23

*how active should he be?*

when in his cage he just sits there or grooms himself occasionally... when i feed him he flutters his wings and walks around trying to get the food; when itake him outside he sits on the ground looking at EVERTHING... if i move about 15 feet away from him he'll walk over to me, ( which is sooo cute)... he cannot fly yet, when i take him outside i put him in my hand (my arm extended) and move it up and down so he flaps his wings, i thought this would work kinda like exercise for him...
and is he old enough to eat seed? to digest it i mean?


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## Pidgey

Pictures need to be smaller (in memory size) than 100 KB. You can resize them with Paint by using the Stretch/Skew function (check the drop-down menus till you find it) if necessary. Just try different percentages (the same in both the vertical and horizontal values) until you get the memory size down.

To attach images, you have to use the "Go Advanced" button and then scroll down to the Manage Attachments button.

Pidgey


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## Chris Y

It sounds like you're feeding him enough, but perhaps the Kaytee (Exact?) isn't the right thing for him if he's approx 20 days old.

At that stage of pigeon development, we feed them on a mix of "small seed" (canary mix basically), chick crumb and egg food, mixed in roughly equal amounts, and with an equal amount of water, so that the mix is slightly sticky. We then pop this into the crop with a 2ml syringe. 

At the same time we're encouraging the pigeon to forage for itself by putting corn, small seeds and other goodies in the cage with it, as well as water. Once it's feeding for itself, it would be good to introduce it to its own kind. Feral pigeons learn pretty quick in the company of other ferals, and this would be its best chance of survival and release in the wild.


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## Pidgey

Actually, they start getting seeds from their parents within about 5 to 10 days of hatching. After ten days, they're getting regurgitated seeds and water mostly.

Pidgey


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## quincar23

*feeding him...*

well first off he doesn't let me put food in his crop with a syringe... i have 1 inch deep tube, about 3/4 in diameter that has a bottom, and i put the baby food in it with the syringe and then i hold it in between my thumb and index finger; he put his beak in there and its till its empty and i keep refilling it till he's full...
i heard you can soak seed in water to make them soft before feeding him, is that a good idea?
and about that food mixture, (At that stage of pigeon development, we feed them on a mix of "small seed" (canary mix basically), chick crumb and egg food, mixed in roughly equal amounts, and with an equal amount of water, so that the mix is slightly sticky. We then pop this into the crop with a 2ml syringe.) what is chick crumb and egg food?
and thank you so much for all the info so far... and warning i have a lot more questions! lol


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## Feefo

> do you think i should try and make him eat more?


As he shows that he is satisfied, no.  It sounds like your doing a good job.


Cynthia


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## quincar23

*need more help*

need more help.... i wrote this earlier, and need more help...


quincar23 said:


> well first off he doesn't let me put food in his crop with a syringe... i have 1 inch deep tube, about 3/4 in diameter that has a bottom, and i put the baby food in it with the syringe and then i hold it in between my thumb and index finger; he put his beak in there and its till its empty and i keep refilling it till he's full...
> i heard you can soak seed in water to make them soft before feeding him, is that a good idea?
> and about that food mixture, (At that stage of pigeon development, we feed them on a mix of "small seed" (canary mix basically), chick crumb and egg food, mixed in roughly equal amounts, and with an equal amount of water, so that the mix is slightly sticky. We then pop this into the crop with a 2ml syringe.) what is chick crumb and egg food?
> and thank you so much for all the info so far... and warning i have a lot more questions! lol


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## Lovebirds

quincar23 said:


> need more help.... i wrote this earlier, and need more help...


Quincar........I've only raise a couple of babies in the house from about 8 or 9 days old. I had all of them eating on their own by the time they were 16 days old. I never soaked the seeds. If you'll take one seed at a time and just put it in his mouth and let him swallow it, he'll realize what it is. Then get you a shallow bowl or a paper towel and sprinkle the seeds on it. Start pecking at them with you're finger. If you use a bowl, put your finger in there and "swish" the seeds around. One he learns to "pick up and swallow" you've got it made. You will have to watch and limit his food. At this age, they will eat way too much. You may have to actually show him the food for a couple of days and "remind" him that he needs to eat, but after that, he'll get the hang of it.
I'm not sure what chick crumb is or egg food. I have a loft so all of my babies always got the Kaytee Exact and then went right to seeds. Never had a problem. 
Teach him how to drink water the same way. I used to drop a few seeds in the water once they are eating seeds. They try to get the seeds and then realize the water is there and take a drink. Again, for a couple of days, you might have to swish the water and tell him to take a drink. 
Hope this helps.


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## quincar23

*i have a 20 day old pigeon fledgling... need help with everything...*

ok my husband brought home this pigeon 1 week ago because it was on his work site and was about to get run over... anyways.. i love him, and i named him "compass"
i have been feeding him "kaytee" baby bird foodabout 10-20ml's every 3-6 hrs and offering water... i have to feed him with this little one inch tube grasped in between my thumb and index finger (its the only way he'll eat; he will not let me put food in his crop with a syringe)
i take him outside now for about 15 minutes and "practice" flapping his wings to gain muscle.
he likes me alot; if i put him on the ground and walk 10 or so feet away he follows me, and if i sit him next to me he wants to sit on my lap...
i know i need to start weaning him off the baby food but i have no idea what to feed him or how to go about it... this is my 1st pigeon... i once rescued a baby starling and had excellent results with it... i found it when it was just starting to get feathers not the downy one the bigger ones and i had it about amonth and "taught" it to fly and one day it flew about 50 feet away and i turned around and walked a way... so that was a success... but with this pigeon i'd like to keep it a bird house/ loft outside when its old enough to fly and hope it comes "home" every day... is this possible?
anyways... i need help with EVERYTHING so please if you have advice HELP!!!
compass needs to get big and strong and i want to ensure that...


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## quincar23

*oh thank you "love birds"*

so at 20 days old (roughly) he should be on seed and only seed?


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## Feefo

> so at 20 days old (roughly) he should be on seed and only seed?


He can be on seed, but until he is then he needs to be supplemented and Kaytee is good for that..

I have two adult pigeons on Kaytee Exact at the moment because they are unable to feed themselves.

Chick crumbs and egg food are available in the UK, I'm not certain what the US equivalent is.

Cynthia


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## Lovebirds

quincar23 said:


> so at 20 days old (roughly) he should be on seed and only seed?


As long as the baby will eat ENOUGH, then yes, he'll be fine. If he eats a seed and drops 20.........then keep helping him with the Exact. Just make sure he drinks plenty of water and don't let him overeat.


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## quincar23

*weaning???*

any tips on how to start weaning him?


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## TAWhatley

I've merged the two threads .. less confusing that way.

Thank you so much for rescuing little Compass (great name BTW)!

You can put some small seeds such as finch, canary, or parakeet in an untippable container, show them to Compass, and "peck" at the seeds with your finger. S/he will soon be curious and will "explore" the seeds. Before long, s/he will be pecking at the seeds and actually managing to eat some. You can also provide a small untippable container of water and gently insert the beak in the water for a few seconds. Compass will soon learn how to drink. Once the smaller seeds have been mastered, you can offer wild bird seed mix or an actual pigeon mix.

Please keep us posted!

Terry


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## quincar23

*pic of compass*

i finally figured out how to load his pic... so how old would you say he is? and what kind of pigeon?
and the yellow gunk on his face is just food; i hadn't cleaned him up yet when i took the photo...
i'm off to the store to buy finch/ canary seed... i bought some for doves but i think they are too big for him.
btw isn't he adorable!


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## flitsnowzoom

He is very cute. I do love the purple feathers  (at least that's the way they look on my monitor)


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## Maggie-NC

Hi quincar, and thank you so much for helping this baby. He is adorable.

Judging from his size, if we were caring for him, we would still be feeding him 25-30 cc. Exact 3 x day but keeping seed and water in his cage at all times and working with him to learn how to peck. By next week you could reduce the feeding to probably 2 x day - morning and evening, just until his crop is plump. I simply don't believe in cutting them off too soon and probably feed them longer than necessary but they seem to turn out ok.  

We are presently trying to wean a young pigeon. We cut him off for two days and he hardly pooped, plus lost weight, so we went back to feeding him 2 x day but he is now eating seed pretty well so have cut him off completely today. It varies with pigeons.


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## quincar23

*crop still when it's feeding time....*

should i not feed him when his crop is still full? he acts like he's starving, so i did this time, but isn't bad to feed them when its still full? and his poop is starting to have alot of liquid in it it this bad?


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## Pidgey

Can be. There are a lot of things like that which are normal and, unfortunately, some which can be the signal of something bad like canker (not cancer). It's usually best to be prepared for stuff like that. What have you fed him in the last 24 hours--be specific.

Pidgey


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## quincar23

*another pic of compass*

here's another picture of him... he's more of a slate blue, but in the sunlight you can start to see the green/ purple on his neck...


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## Pidgey

Okay, so you're just northwest of Detroit. What we want to find is some Metronidazole, just in case. That's a drug that actually has a human use and it can be gotten from a pharmacy if you know your pharmacist real well and can beg a pill out of him or her. Barring that, there are places that handle them like feed stores, pet supply places and aquarium supply houses. It's marketed under the names of "Flagyl" and "FishZole". You might oughta' start looking up in the yellow pages the local feed stores and such to get ready to call in the morning.

Pidgey


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## quincar23

he has only had that "kaytee" baby bird food today; just now when i noticed it was still full before i feed him, i gave him the baby bird food with some "kaytee exact" original ( it looks like tiny grapenuts, the cereal)
what is canker, and how do i know if he has it or not? and if he does how do i fix him?


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## Pidgey

Canker is actually "Trichomoniasis" and is the result of the body's reaction to an infection by a flagellating protozoa called a "Trichomonad". What that means is that the protozoa has little whips with which it propels itself. There are a lot of strains, some that don't cause clinical disease and some that routinely kill virtually every bird they get in. Infection with a non-virulent strain can give immunity to the more deadly ones.

Probably, it is the body's overreaction to them that causes the most trouble--the body can fire horrific numbers of leukocytes (like white blood cells) at the Trichomonads to the point of killing the normal body cells in the crossfire.

You cannot always find the easiest evidence of them--little cheddar cheese colored buttons in the mouth and throat when you hold the beak open to look inside, as far down as possible. Sometimes, the site of the battle can be further down, beyond your ability to see without an endoscope. It can occur in the bottom of the crop, plugging it off; in the stomachs (ventriculus or proventriculus); the liver... just too many places. When it does, a bird can starve to death with a full load of food in the crop.

Many times, you're stuck with a bird dying and you can't see a reason why. We've gotten to where we often treat those birds for canker just because it's not going to harm the bird and it just might help in the absence of other symptoms that might point to something else.

Even vets can miss this one pretty easily. Your bird is the prime age to come down with it. If you can find the Metronidazole (or Carnidazole, Secnidazole, Ronidazole and, would you believe, even a few more!), we'll give you dosing info as soon as you tell us what it is that you've obtained. He may not be sick, but by the time that you KNOW that he's sick--it's gotten too serious for one that age.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Here's a link to the chapter of the U.S. government's wildlife field manual that deals with it:

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_25.pdf

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

Hi Quincar23, and thanks for helping Compass out in his/her time of need. They are adorable at that age and as others have mentioned they have developmental differences from one to another. If you fed the baby when the 
crop was already full and then found watery droppings, it may be a result of 
feeding when the crop is still full and could be transient in presentation.

Have you looked inside this baby's mouth to see if there are any abnormal
cheesy growth's/lesions? The droppings should be fairly oderless, are you noticing a sour smell to the droppings? You can purchase an Otoscope from
a Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Long's or the like for examing inside the throat a little
deeper down than you might be able to view w/the naked eye and it's a good
tool to have on hand.

Here's a link that has a classic picture of what you might see w/canker/Trichomoniasis, though this picture is not the only presentation in 
that you might find it in more of a sub-clinical mode:

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The Doctors Corner/diagnosis.htm

You'll have to scroll down to it a little bit to get to the Canker/Trichomoniasis
section. Also, since you plan to keep this pigeon, a really good place to 
familiarize yourself with would be the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

And a link to the major Pigeon Supply Houses where you can purchase
medications, vitamins, grit, AND EGG FOOD/PROTEIN CRUMBLES, etc. for your new friend  :

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

If it appears that your youngster does have Canker/Trichomoniasis, Rondidazole is
recommended for youngsters.

fp


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## quincar23

*oh no*

his crop was still full this morning; i continued to feed him however... he is still pooping and i tried and looked down his throat for the "buttons" he was not very coropative... i didn't see anything unusual in his mouth...
i am looking online for ronidazole; and as soon as i get my kids on the school bus i will be looking for it at local pet stores... i only have a petco, pets supplies plus & market place pets in my area... if i have to buy it online i am doing next day air (which is expensive) so if any of you know where i might buy some at in the detroit MI area please help!!! i don't want my little guy to die!!!


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## quincar23

*i'm so scared...*

looks like i have to buy the stuff online... i will pay for next day shipping & hope it gets here fast... am i wasting my time? will he survive another day or two w/o getting the ronidazole? doe this kill them fast w/o treatment?
he seems fine, the only symptom as of now is the full crop... please spmeone reassure me!!!!


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## Pidgey

Usually, it's Metronidazole in the form sold by aquarium supply stores as "FishZole" that is the more readily available. Vets usually have the stuff.

Please explain exactly what the poops look like.

Pidgey


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## quincar23

his poop is green, like a forest green with white/yellow in it... and they are pretty big loads and there is no more watery-ness to them


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## Pidgey

You see, it can work like this: the crop seems full but it's not, really. In such a case--you can panic and start doing things that are completely unnecessary. So, that's why it sometimes comes down to getting very specific about the poops. 

If they're brown pudding and don't smell, then you're within the norm for Kaytee in such a young bird, for instance. If, however, they're tiny little dabs of a somewhat dark green artists' oil paints in the middle of water or, worse, chalky water, then you may be in trouble. What's missing in that presentation is the solids. And when there's a lot of chalky liquid, the bird can be getting dehydrated.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

The size of a penny? Quarter? Dime? How high? Teaspoon? Half-teaspoon? Quarter teaspoon?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Incidentally, if you use a set of measuring spoons to figure that out, be sure and soak them in some germicidal agent before restoring them to the drawer for use. That's not a suggestion for your health per se as simple washing would actually be sufficient but the standard emotional reaction towards something like that is pretty severe. 

It's probably better to just hold them near and make a comparison by eye. 

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

If the baby's crop is full when it is time to feed, have you tried giving water
to the baby instead of more formula? Also, the formula is well known for getting
thicker after it sits and if you syringe right away after mixing it up it will
thicken in the crop and they have a hard time processing it. Do these poops have a sour smell to them?

Fishzole is sold in the aquarium products section, that's the same as Metronidazole/Flagyll. If you
have to get on line, then you may as well go w/the Ronidazole. 

fp


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## quincar23

this is what it looks like... it is a little larger than a nickel and about 1/2 in high/ tall
i picked some of it up and stuck it right up to my nose and smelled it (as gross as that sounds; i am his momma though) and it doesn't really smell like anything, definetly not sour, and just a tiny bit like, well poop....


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## Pidgey

Well, that's one of the crappiest pictures anyone's ever posted on here!

On the bright side, you're not experiencing crop stasis to get this--it's probably just that there is some puffiness around the base of the neck that's quite normal and it's confusing you. I just raised one like that recently. I don't think I'd panic about crop stasis, crop slowdown or canker at this point.

Pidgey


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## quincar23

*well thats reassuring*

ha ha ha! ( pic comment)
so should i go & try to get some metronidazole anyways to be sure?


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## feralpigeon

I still think the consistency of the formula needs to be looked at. It does thicken up quite a bit in the first twenty min. or so. Might be that it is too thick
to begin with and then thickens further in the crop. If the baby's crop is full
at the next feeding time, I'd do water w/a dash of formula.

It's a good sign that the baby's poop has little or no odor, that's the way it
should be. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the poop that's in the picture,
I don't think there is anything alarming there.


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## feralpigeon

No, if you want a canker med on hand, you've got time so go for the Ronidazole.

fp


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## quincar23

ok so i need not be alarmed at this point right?
then i will purchase some ronidazole online and get regular shipping ( alot cheaper that way too) i'd like to have it on hand to be safe...
so from what you can tell he's fine?
i will give him very watery baby bird food at his next feeding... maybe that will help with his crop.
AND just to clarify for myself; if he does have canker and i get the meds in a week, everything should be fine? i don't want to order them and have him pass away before they get here... the site i planned on ordering form is: Foy's Pigeon Supply... do you know of a differant one that maybe closer so shipping doesn't take so long; i am in the detroit MI area


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## Pidgey

Foy's is in Pennsylvania, right?

Just out of curiosity, what are your plans for this bird--to keep him or to release him to a feral flock?

Pidgey


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## quincar23

i'd like to keep him outside in ahouse/loft when he's old enough... is this bad? should i try and release him in the wild? i think there is a man about a mile from me who has pigeons (i think; i always see like 15 of them on his pole barn or flying around his house) if things don't work out for me w/ him i was considering asking him


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## feralpigeon

I've ordered from all of the sites and they run about a full week before you
see product @ the door. Jedd's is the only one that hits my doorstep w/in two
days and it seems to me that this is because it's built into the shipping costs.

I don't the baby has a canker issue from what you're describing so you'll
probably end up just having it on hand for future need. If you are going through Foy's why not also order the Enrofloxan 10% and have that on hand
as well? Those are two good things for any pet owner to have access to
in the event of an emergency. Also, you may want to get some grit for the
seed feeding days to come.

fp


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## feralpigeon

Personally, I'd either keep him as a pet and inside (as in an aviary or indoors)
or release him into a feral flock, but I wouldn't let him come and go by his
lonesome--that is just way too dangerous for him to be alone w/out the emergency signalling that a flock provides.

fp


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## feralpigeon

Here's a link from the Resource Section on "Release Criteria" that you should
take a look at:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11919

It's a bit pre-mature in some ways to look at it, but maybe not in other ways.
I did just take in a baby for someone locally who thought that they wanted
to keep a baby they found as a pet. Then they changed their mind and thought they wanted someone experienced to release the bird for them.

In the meantime, this bird is nowhere near releasable based solely on the pigeon's response to humans now. The baby has been totally tamed. Just
something to think about.

fp


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## quincar23

feralpigeon said:


> .
> If you are going through Foy's why not also order the Enrofloxan 10% and have that on hand
> as well?
> fp


what is this for?
and i will do some serious considering when it comes to releasing him or not
thanks for all your help
i don't know what i would do w/o "pigeon talk"!!!


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## feralpigeon

quincar23 said:


> what is this for?
> and i will do some serious considering when it comes to releasing him or not
> thanks for all your help
> i don't know what i would do w/o "pigeon talk"!!!


It's the generic form of Baytril and if your baby (which I was thinking that
you would be adopting as a pet) does indeed stay, it's a good idea to either
have meds on hand or have a way of getting your hands on them immediately
in the event of an emergency--which I'm sure you can imagine we see alot of 
here.

They make great pets and if you are into keeping your baby rescue as a pet I
doubt you will regret it . They are just so endearing. Your welcome and thank you for picking up this little one and providing excellent care and shelter.

fp


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## Pidgey

The reason that I asked about whether you were going to keep the bird or now was because if you treat them with antibiotics and eradicate some things, they will lose their immunity and it can be a problem if they have to go out and live in the wild soon. So, while many folks treat their birds as a matter of course to keep them healthy, I might have suggested not to give him something as a preventative for canker "just in case" if you were going to be letting him go and no true problem arose in the interim.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

You can always give probiotics after antibiotics to get the good bacteria
back in proper ratio in the system. There are other things folks do as well
such as Raw Apple Cider Vinegar in the drinking water to the tune of 1-2
tablespoons per gallon that also helps to keep the population of 'good gut' bacteria up. This is something that folks who rehab pigeons contend with on
a regular basis and w/care works out fine.

I did want to mention that you shouldn't microwave the baby's formula but 
rather use heated water from the stove top--preferrably filtered or bottled
but if you don't have this, hot from the tap and allowed to cool with the
test being much the same as that of a human baby, i.e., a drop to the inside
of the wrist. Microwaving the formula can create hot spots that we are unaware of and burn the inside of the crop. Best to make fresh each time--
I generally don't fill the whole scoop as it is more than the baby will eat in one feeding. I'm sure you're doing fine w/it, but we just never know and it's best not to assume if there are some seeming crop issues.  

fp


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