# Pigeon egg up to pipping stage!



## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Hey guys!
Hi i'm incubating a 2 and 1/2 week old baby pigeon in my room, hes very large inside and started moving his back on the Air Cell just yesterday, trying to get through, atm his not moving, and i'm quite worried, a few people have told me not to let my hopes down for this little young baby, and try not to pick it up and candle it anymore. So now i'm waiting for a couple more days untill it gets through, and i'll be happy  I just hope its not moving because its dead thats all..and i don't want to let my hopes up just yet. So i'm going to keep trying and wait for this baby.

Hope all goes well  i'm in a worried position right now, i just HOPE! Flic makes it through the end, i dont want to buery him in my own backyard, it will break my heart.

Bird~girl.. Everyone is more than welcome to post replys and tell me what you think.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Hehehe, I know more about incubation than most people so I'm going to tell you this...


YAY! Flic is just about ready to make his internal pip!
Before, he was just pushing against the air cell, not IN it.
They stop moving right before they poke in. The pushing against the air cell is them getting into place. I candle my eggs a LOT during this time just out of interest and to monitor them and talk to them and never had any problems with any of them. They move a lot when they're getting in place, the ceasing of movement is because he's just taking a rest before he really gets started.

I wouldn't worry.
People are very negative about incubation.

People are overly cautious, and it is my theory that due to this caution, they lose more babies!

The parents continue to turn their eggs even as they hatch, though we stop turning them.
It is not necessary to leave the eggs alone, and holding the egg and moving it around will get the baby to respond better because they think mom and dad are there, waiting...Really! It works!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I hope you are right, Vasp .. I know you have done it and successfully so. Personally, I think it's time for FlyingHigh to leave the egg alone. The parent birds know what they are doing .. I'm not real sure any of us humans are quite so adept. JMO, and I have a huge amount of respect for you, Vasp. You've proven yourself to be an awesome bird parent.

Terry


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Thankyou so much Vasp! i thought it was dead, i really did! but now that you said its just about to make an internal pip and its getting ready i should just stay away. But also you never know it just might die, but my hopes are back up and i really think its going to hatch now that you told me.

By the way Terry, the egg isn't in a nest, its in my room, But yeh i'm leaving it alone now, so i hope all goes well for my young little Flic! So i'm guessing tomorrow heil make the Internal Pip? or maybe tonight even. I'll wait and see.

I was really scared when i found out he wasnt moving, but Vasp told me not to worry..so i won't.

Thanks all! Bird~girl


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Are you scared now? You will be more scared once the little one makes its appearance in the world and wonders who is going to feed me my pigeon milk and keep me warm, just the right temp and humidity, you will realize then......is it me? I'm sure counting on the fact that you have prepared for what this newbie will need once it hatches, that is the most crucial time.

Parent pigeons are equipped to hatch and raise a baby pigeon, not humans, unless you have done this before. We have a few people here, including Vasp who has successfully raised them from hatching, but many who haven't.

PLEASE tell us you are completely prepared to take on the care, or have a ready and waiting pigeons couple that can give them the life giving "pigeon milk."

None of us here have EVER taken an egg from a nest, we have all been forced to experience hatching and feeding babies because they parents abandoned them, or their about to hatch eggs-and we had no surrogate pigeon parents, but we NEVER EVER would interfere with mother-nature's finest, the pigeon parents. God gave them their unique talents to hatch and raise babies SO WELL. 

It is uniquelly different, as pigeon babies cannot survive without their parents feeding them and keeping them warm, unlike a baby chicken, they are totally dependent on their mom and dad.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

It is definitely more real and more scary wondering how you're going to keep a little newborn pigeon alive than wondering if it's going to hatch. Of course, there is always the possibility that the baby will not make it--such is a fact of life, and happens all the time.

Parent birds do not know when to stop turning the eggs. It's just something they do throughout the course of incubation. While it isn't wise to shake up the egg when the baby is internally pipping or about to due to the fact that you may damage the air cell, cause water to leak into it and drown them, and perhaps have them lose their position, such is possible with turning, and I know a few people who have great success in turning their eggs throughout the term instead of waiting for a certain day or certain sign.

At first, when I was incubating my first song bird eggs that had fallen from a nest after a storm, they were just two days from hatching and the first day, were moving very much, and the second, nothing. I noticed this for all the other eggs I incubated, as well... And it made sense to me, as well as others I asked, that they must take a break before they puncture the air cell.

I could be wrong about this case, but such things are possible in every account...

Anyway... Good luck.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Well it all makes sence to me, but i woke up this morning and you know "Stretch marks?" well the egg has some of those on both ends of the egg, and i'm thinking is that okay? I'm not to sure when my baby will make the Internal pip, or what ever, seeming he/she hasn't mad it yet i'm guessing tomorrow's the day. There is one thing i want to ask by the way...

When the baby inside the egg makes the internal pip, straight after that does it mean its going to hatch right after he made the pip? Oh well i'm guessing it will because i think the pip is when he breaks the shell, am i right?
Well it seems clear to me, i'm only candeling my egg twice today, "Breakfast" and "Dinner" just to make sure i don't handle it to much otherwise i might break the air cell and it may leak into the baby's lungs  

My neighbor went on a holiday last week and said "your more than welcome to grab some vegetables from our garden while wer'e gone" So my mom said i could go get some lettuce and as i passed one of the tree's i saw a white thing on the gound, i thought it was a rock and then my heart pumped loudly, i picked it up and found it was an egg! i was all happy and excited, i knew it came from a nest so i tried to search for a nest in the tree but there wasn't any. So i took it inside and found it had a living baby inside.

Thats how i got my little baby Flic  heehee i'm very scared but also excited.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

What do you mean by "stretch marks"? If you mean on the outside of the egg shell, near the air cell, it could mean that the baby has drowned in the air cell. This doesn't seem likely to me due to the fact that the baby was never in the air cell... You would know by a beak-shaped shadow, and you'd likely hear clicking against the shell at that point. I would really, really appreciate it if you would take a picture of the egg, and one of you candling it, and upload them on Photobucket so I can get a good look at the egg. It takes about a day after the internal pip for the baby to hatch. 

Seeing as you found the egg already developed, it's an estimate, isn't it? I know that the babies start pushing against the air cell 3 days or so before they hatch, now that I think about it, so those must have been what you saw yesterday... That would mean the hatch day would be Friday or Saturday, likely, instead of Thursday. If that is so, then you were off just by a few days due to the fact that the hatch date was just a guess, and the internal pip should be made tomorrow at some time. 

They stop moving almost completely a while after they start pushing against the air cell, maybe a day or two before the internal pip, too...They push against it for a while and then stop once they get to the right place. But I have no idea what you mean by "stretch marks".


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Well it has grey parts inside the egg on the ends of the egg, and i can't take a photo of the egg because you can't see it on the camera. But its strange because if it has the browny/grey parts on both ends of the egg, then isn't it just a change in color? I really think its drowned now...i've handled it way to much, now poor flic has a wasted life. I've done everything for it now its just gone. I really thought this would work but now i dont think it will now, i might give up my hopes. If it dosn't pip tomorrow or on Friday or even Saturday, then i know its dead and i might crack the shell open and if i smell dead bird, i might cry...I didnt mean to touch it so much, my dad tells me to leave it alone but i have to check if its made its pip or not. My dad says its just changing in color and it wouldn't drown, but he dosn't know that. The grey/brown marks on the egg shell look like a blodge of mixed grey paint with brown just like a splash. But its on both sides so...

But maybe it hasn't because when i candle the egg i dont see the splash marks anymore, its only when i don't candle it. Like when i place the torch under it i see clear in the shell (besides the baby and the air cell) so i can't see the blodges..so maybe its just a discoloration? I have a photo of me candeling it...

http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I can't see the photo. It just asks me for a password.
You can find the links (direct link) under all the pictures in your album.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

You're album's marked as private so I couldn't view it.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

No...i can still see the blodge marks when i candle it sorry,  i think he's gone, i might aswell pour my tears out or just search the ground for another egg. THIS ISN'T FAIR! i've never done this before but i've wanted to do this my whole life! it was fine 2 days ago how can it just drown now!!?? this is rediculous! i'm really angry and sad now!  why couldn't Flic just hold on a little more longer, why couldnt I STOP TOUCHING IT!? I've lost my hopes now... and i can't even hear chipping inside it must be dead  I might aswell just buy 2 doves and breed them and then they can lay eggs. I don't think i was ment for this whole thing, sorry to say. This didn't go according to plan, it was just perfact now its drowned. I don't feel like typing anymore...

But i'm still going to wait another couple of days just incase, and if its not pipped on Saturday, i might have to crack it open and buery the poor baby. This is very bad news for me i wish i stopped touching it. I wish there was some way for him to go back to normal. I have nothing more to say.

Sorry for the news, but i think hes gone *cry* ps: the Direct link says "Copied" does that mean u guys can see it now?
http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Hey, don't blame yourself.  Besides, he might not be dead at all. You describe these marks... And I've noticed these marks when the baby starts pipping. I just haven't seen them near the bottom of the egg. If the baby is dead, it probably has nothing to do with the fact that you were holding it a lot because a) he wouldn't have drowned because they're near both sides of the egg and b) I hold my eggs a lot during hatching and have never seen that before. It just might be that the baby is making these marks because he's ready to hatch, or it could just be a strange occurrence.. It may not harm him at all. I'd say to wait at least until Monday. Some take a lot longer. What's your temperature in the incubator like, anyway?

PS: Still can't see the picture.
Under the picture, there will be a few different links...
Copy the one that says "Direct link to picture" or something.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

From what I saw from your pictures, your egg looks fine... But, might I suggest candling it with the light off and the flash on the camera off?
You'll only be able to get a good candling picture that way. I have a few good ones, myself... I'd really like to see the egg up close to see these "stretch marks" as well as the egg candled. If you still see veins and everything, I don't think you've lost all hope.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Hey i put some pictures of the egg on Photobucket lols, oh and its on my bed hehe as u can see i got my bear next to my pillow  i love my bear. Just click the thing  look very carefuly at the egg at the front. The 2nd last pic you will see easier.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/Picture008.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/Picture007.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/Picture006.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/Picture005.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/Eye_heart_elmo/Picture004.jpg


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

The lines are probably just Flic


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Alright, i guess your right  i don't think i should worry to much. All i should do is wait. I'm actually certain his not dead anymore, because if he drowned the lines and darkness would only be where the air cell is, and the blodgy marks are on both ends of the egg, so it must just be Flic or some discoloration. I'm sure his fine now that everyone is telling me not to give up my hopes, i'm actually beleiving he might make it now. Vasp just said that the blodgy marks on the egg could just be a sign that his about to hatch, and i'm going to stick with that, i dont want to see something thats new to the egg thats formed and for me to think its not normal. If i ever see something thats formed on the egg i'll just tell you guys  Right now its best if i only candle it every 3 hours and to make sure i don't spin and move it quickly. By the way Vasp to answer your question, the temprature inside the incubator is 36.2 digrease. It says on the websites that its supposed to be around 36-38 D, so it must be all good.

Right now i dont want anything to make me think its dead or drowned, so i'm going to keep in touch with everyone and hope for the best! 3 big loud cheers for Flic's hatch! Hip-hip Horay! Hip-hip Horay! and one more  HIP-HIP HORAY!!!! Go Flic! i know you can make it buddy, i beleive in you sweetie!

I hope you all have hope in Flic and i know you all do, good luck to my baby


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Great! my mum just told me its might be dead and that it did drown, because when it drowned the water might have made a water stain inside the egg, its like she wants it to die! now i'm to worried, she says it has the marks because the water made stains...i don't want to beleive that! What if it is dead Vasp? what if those marks are water stains, my hopes are dropping ONCE again *Sigh* and also she said it might have drowned because of all the humidity. I think it might have died, i dont think this will work now..sorry guys.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Aw, so sad but give it a couple more days, you might be surprised. I sent you a message by the way. I hope you reply to it.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

BirdDogg10 said:


> Aw, so sad but give it a couple more days, you might be surprised. I sent you a message by the way. I hope you reply to it.


Oh hey Dog, umm i deleted all my messages in my Inbox seeming i had heaps, maybe send me another one ok? I hope my baby's ok, we all hope for the best.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Just sent it go check out your inbox!


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

You know, looking at them, they do look a lot like some pictures I had seen of an egg that had internally pipped, but stopped responding and then turned out to be dead. But those marks were a little bit more brown-colored as well as only on the air cell. I think the marks could be blood...He may have tried pipping at the bottom, as some babies attempt to and some DO succeed in doing, but I'm sad to say he may have broken blood vessels and, well, bled to death. However, it is extremely curious how there are marks on BOTH ends of the egg. 

36.2 is a tad bit too low... Standard incubation temperature is 99.5 fahrenheit in a CIRCULATED air model (with a fan in it) and 102 degrees fahrenheit for a still air model...Which covers most home made incubators, as well. That means, if it's home made or without a fan, 38 would've been your best bet, and normally, 37.5 is your best bet with a fan. Lower temperatures do not kill babies, but rather cause them to take more time hatching. 

I can't tell much from your candling picture, aside from that the baby has filled up the egg and the air cell is visible. It would be a most amazing experience for you and a lot easier for me if you could find a hand held flash light (torch, if you will) and hold it up to the egg so that it is shining right through it...The flash light will be pressed right up against it, looking into the air cell. That way you'll be able to see if there are any veins near the bottom of the air cell, in the space between the baby and the air cell. This will tell you whether Flic is alive or not.

No matter, the discoloration is probably not a good sign. Either way, it is an irregular occurrence. I do notice yellowish discoloration around the air cell during hatching, on the outside as well as the inside, but this is distinctly yellow and only shows up during the external pip or near to it... It's merely the baby puncturing the membrane that is lining the egg... 

It is a distinct possibility that Flic is dead. I'm sorry to say that, and though you should NOT give up hope until Monday at LEAST (you have a lower temperature, so it will take Flic longer to hatch), it's a possibility that you've lost him. It's possibly not your fault--such things occur in nature--But how many times a day did you turn the egg over? You're supposed to mark one side of the egg with an X and the other with an O and flip them over 3-5 times a day, always an odd number. It's recommended to stop turning the eggs 2 or 3 days before the scheduled hatch date, though some have success continuing the turning until after they see the internal pip.

If you didn't turn the egg enough, it could have caused Flic to get confused and attempt to pip in the wrong end of the egg...Thus, what you would have seen in the air cell would be his feet. It's possible that the discoloration would be that he broke veins on both sides or at least damaged both sides, though that is a little bit morbid... It's possible.

The humidity level would also be crucial... You should always make sure it's lower rather than higher, because higher causes drowning and lower just causes a bit of a bigger air cell and possibly a sticky egg during hatching... It's easy to assist hatch in comparison with reviving a baby that has drowned.

50%, on a hydrometer, is about right, probably throughout the entire course of incubation, not more than 10% higher (and that's a definite maximum) during hatching.

Did you do research on incubation before you popped the egg in the incubator?

It is a very delicate practice.


PS: It's a distinct possibility, as well, and on a higher note, that Flic positioned himself on the wrong side of the egg and has damaged a tiny blood vessel but will continue to pip in just a few day's time... The reason you wouldn't see something in the air cell anymore would be because he isn't in it. Many babies have hatched the "wrong way around" and been absolutely fine... It's a possibility and would explain the discoloration.

I wish I was there with you! I can usually tell if an egg is dead or not just by holding my LED flashlight up to one.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

FlyingHigh, I sent you a message with a link to my website along with 2 of my pet/pigeon scenarios. Hope you reply to it.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

No no, that yellow you see on the egg is the light shining on it, the light thats incubating in the cupboard is that color, i know i ment to shut the door before i took it. Well i think thats it guys  Poor Flic is dead. I might aswell buery him, and incubate another time. Thanks for everything guys, no-point me waiting anymore, he's gone. I really thought this would work, but it didn't. I might have better luck next time. Bye guys, have fun with your pet doves, and incubating there egg's. I had fun anyway, i guess it just wasn't meant to be... but just incase i'm still going to wait another couple of days. 

Broken hearted Bird~girl


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Don't feel bad you did what you could to help him.

Life happens.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

You never know, he might still be alive. If you act too rashly and open the egg now and give up, he could just be a late baby and end up dying because you opened his egg. Don't blame yourself. I know you feel bad, but some things are unavoidable. In order to learn about incubation, you first have to try your best to learn, accept failures and learn from your mistakes, and then perfect the practice. Like I said, it is very delicate. Even parent birds lose their babies sometimes.

I didn't see any yellow on your egg, but if I did, it probably would've been a good thing. I'd show you the picture of the duck egg that died (and had brown on the air cell) but the website it's on is down.

What do you see exactly when you candle the egg?
If you still see veins near the top (you have to press a flash light very close to the egg) then the baby is probably STILL ALIVE and you should give him more time.


Aside from that, even if Flic is dead, DO NOT GIVE UP ON INCUBATION!! It is an amazing process as well as an amazing skill to have. No doubt, if you're a bird lover, you'll eventually find abandoned eggs and baby birds. Knowing how to care for them from experience is the best possible thing. If you continue to learn about incubaton, you could save many lives.

The worst thing is losing a baby that has already opened its eyes.
I once fostered a baby pigeon that had been dumped out of his nest.
I found him when his eyes were still closed. His parents had fled from the nest and did not return for the entire time I kept him. I kept checking back.
They were in a public place, so anything could have happened.

Little Fizban never seemed to get much bigger, but he always would follow me everywhere. He was absolutely adorable and had those bright, shining eyes that make you think they have so much potential and that they've just got to make it... Well, Fizban didn't. He also died horribly. Part of his crop became rock hard and was just stuck to his chest instead of hanging out, and soon, he began to lose his balance and fall over, food would not go down his throat, and he died on his side, some of his past foods coming out of his nose and mouth, and he just must've aspirated some of them and choked finally.

It was horrific.
And I still miss him, despite my successes with other birds.
The only thing is that if you give up, you'll never get another experience.
You'll never get to help OTHER birds.


Anyway, just think about that.




PS: Come to think of it, I think I may have seen some dark spots on some of my eggs during hatching...
It has been a while since I last hatched eggs, but somehow, it seems familiar.
I believe it is possibly because the baby now fills up the entire egg and is pressing against the sides of the eggs, so if the baby moves, some of the membrane is sort of torn. That might explain it.

PLEASE don't give up hope.
Due to the low temperature, he might hatch as far away as Tuesday or Wednesday.
Some babies hatch many days after the supposed hatch date.

PPS:

I think it might be just that the veins are getting goopy instead of bloody because it's near the hatch date... They would show the dark marks, too... Come to think of it, I surely see dark marks during hatching... It might make sense... Either way, keep the temperature stable, try to give him some space, and wait until next week. If you catch a really bad smell like rotten eggs, stop. But if there's just an odd sort of wet smell, that could mean he's ready to hatch.

PPPS: I know I'm typing a lot, so bye now. xD


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## Guest (May 3, 2009)

*I need help !!!*

Ok I have 2 pigeon eggs and I've been having them for about more than 16 days. I have been having them in a shoe box and a heating pad in there for them. The heating pad is on low. 1 of the eggs r really dark inside and the other is kinda pink I have been turning it 3 times a day that's what I read and they have been warm. But I don't see any move ment  and I really want them 2 hatch I know what kind of responsiblity they need and everything. I love anmials and im willing 2 do anything 2 keep them alive but what do I do. My grandma shook 1 and im so scared she hurt it I cryed for hours. Hopeing it was and alive. Im so scared there died. :'( please contact me back please


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Do you know the right temperature for incubation for these birds? And did you candle before to make sure it is fertile?

A good link: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/incubation-when-there-is-no-alternative-4968.html


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