# URGENT!!! Abnormal breathing,poop and swollen vent area.



## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

*(picture uploaded)URGENT!!! Abnormal breathing,poop and swollen vent area.*

Hi,
My beauty homer is ill.She has not been very active for the past few weeks.Today , in the morning I found out that she is breathing heavily with her beaks slightly open.Her poop is not normal.What's strange is that her vent area is swollen and looks like a bruise.She is in pain.She vomited when I turned her upside down and trimmed the feather around the vent area so that I could give you an image of the swollen vent area.

Summary of observations
1) Abnormal Breathing
2)Abnormal Poop
3)Swollen Vent 
4)Vent area looks like a bruise.
5)Vomited twice when I turned her upside down.

Any directions and help will be highly appreciated.Please check the images below and link for the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-RYX4NTlck ( swollen vent/bruise )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmrA2Imbpfg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G6u2LT0AKs


Thank You


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*When was the last time she laid an egg? 

She could be egg bound. This is a very serious situation. She should be seen by a reputable avian vet asap.


Make sure to keep her fed (hand feed) if she is not eating enough, if she is digesting well. 

Have you allowed her to bathe in warm water? Also you should put her on warm heating pad, with towel between her and pad.

Make sure she is getting a calcium supplement with D3, and also give her a drop of olive oil, no more then that, in her food.*


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Skyeking said:


> *When was the last time she laid an egg?
> 
> She could be egg bound. This is a very serious situation. She should be seen by a reputable avian vet asap.
> 
> ...


Yess , I will take her to a vet.She is on eggs now.This is the second time she laid eggs.She has laid two eggs already.Can I give her a drop of olive oil orally ? Could you please be more specific about the heating pad ???

Thank You for replying.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nazmul said:


> Yess , I will take her to a vet.She is on eggs now.This is the second time she laid eggs.She has laid two eggs already.Can I give her a drop of olive oil orally ? Could you please be more specific about the heating pad ???
> 
> Thank You for replying.


*When did she lay the last egg? Exactly what date?

Have you allowed her to bathe?

The olive oil is to help lubricate and expell an egg, if there is an egg. It is given orally on pigeon feed. 

Can you post a clear picture of swelling/bruising?

If this is blunt trauma because there is bruising then the heating pad should not be used. 

An avian vet can determine exactly what is going on as time may be of the essence and this needs immediate attention.*


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Skyeking said:


> *When did she lay the last egg? Exactly what date?
> 
> Have you allowed her to bathe?
> 
> ...


She laid eggs on 19th September.It's been a long time since I allowed her to bathe.I will try to post a picture of swelling/bruising but please check the first video.Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-RYX4NTlck 0:32 shows the bruise/swelling just below the vent area.....


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*We need to see an actual close up picture of the vent area and bruising, it is impossible to see what is going on from a distance with all the feathering.

Do your birds ever get to go out in fresh air and get sunshine and be able to move about freely? If you cage them they should have a bottom on the cage and not have to stand on wire, they also have free access to sunshine and bathing. *


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Skyeking said:


> *We need to see an actual close up picture of the vent area and bruising, it is impossible to see what is going on from a distance with all the feathering.
> 
> Do your birds ever get to go out in fresh air and get sunshine and be able to move about freely? If you cage them they should have a bottom on the cage and not have to stand on wire, they also have free access to sunshine and bathing. *


Ok , I will upload close up pictures of the vent area tomorrow.I keep my birds caged in my balcony...My balcony is open with enough air flow around the cage with direct sunlight for around 2-3 hours in the morning.
I know eggs need moisture but I wanted to know if it's fine to give bowl for bathing when pigeons are on eggs ??


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nazmul said:


> I wanted to know if it's fine to give bowl for bathing when pigeons are on eggs ??


*Yes, it is normal. When the male takes turns on the nest the healthy hen will spend quality time in bathing and sunning , and it is extremely important to egg hatching as well as laying. There needs to be enough moisture to keep the developing chick freely moving about as well as helping hen to lay. The males on the nest will also bathe and sun when they are off nest duty.*


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

She is not eating anything.She is only drinking water.I am hand-feeding her but she is vomiting all of it.Below are the images of the swollen vent area....


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

This pair laid eggs twice.Now the question is if she is really egg bound or its sth else.This pair laid two eggs both this time and the first time.Do two females always lay 4 eggs ? If both are female , I was wondering whether the two eggs laid this time is laid by the other hen and this hen is egg bound ? Is this possible ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She could be egg bound. I would get her to a vet. But till then keep her on a warm moist heat. Warm bath wouldn't hurt. If she is egg bound, then she needs a vet or she could die. How much calcium do they get. I would give her calcium and D3 also. Lack of calcium can cause egg binding.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

I took her to the vet.The vet said she could be egg bound but he was unsure of it.He said there might be an infection and as a result there is blood deposit around the vent area.He prescribed medicines for four days.

The question is whether she is really egg bound or not.The pair is already on eggs.She laid two eggs on 19th September .It's a strange situation.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

She is not digesting food.She was vomiting so I tried hand feeding her crushed feed but she is still not digesting it.Her gut is full of feed that I hand fed her yesterday


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't feed her anything more if her crop is full and not passing anything. She may have a blockage.
What meds did he give for 4 days? What are they for?


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

The vet gave doxycycline and thiaflavin ( contains thaimin hcl ,riboflavin,pyridoxin,vitamin B1,B2 & B6) and linseed oil (orally) , I am feeding olive oil instead of linseed oil though.They are for infection and release of eggs if there is any....


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nazmul said:


> I am feeding olive oil instead of linseed oil though.They are for infection and release of eggs if there is any....


*Only a drop of olive oil-no more, it can completely shut off digestion.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm thinking it could be an infection from something happening the last time she had her eggs. Unlikely that if she had eggs 2 weeks ago, that she would be egg bound. Could be an infection. Poor thing, looks painful.

Could have breathing problems from that pushing on air sacs. I would treat with Baytril.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Skyeking said:


> *Only a drop of olive oil-no more, it can completely shut off digestion.*


OH NO !!! I have given more than one drop , probably 3-4 ml .The vet suggested me to feed one tea spoon of linseed oil.I don't have linseed oil and one tea spoon sounds like an overdose so I fed 3-4ml of olive oil orally.MY GOD did that shut her digestion


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I'm thinking it could be an infection from something happening the last time she had her eggs. Unlikely that if she had eggs 2 weeks ago, that she would be egg bound. Could be an infection. Poor thing, looks painful.
> 
> Could have breathing problems from that pushing on air sacs. I would treat with Baytril.


What is good for treating infection ? Doxy or Enro ? The vet suggested Doxy.Enro has adverse effects , right ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Enro is a wide spectrum antibiotic. Doxy is used more for respiratory infections. It may not be a respiratory infection at all. I know the vet suggested Doxy, but the vet also couldn't even tell you whether or not the bird was egg bound. Any antibiotic has adverse effects if you over dose. Enroflox would be a much better bet if what you are dealing with is an infection.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Enro is a wide spectrum antibiotic. Doxy is used more for respiratory infections. It may not be a respiratory infection at all. I know the vet suggested Doxy, but the vet also couldn't even tell you whether or not the bird was egg bound. Any antibiotic has adverse effects if you over dose. Enroflox would be a much better bet if what you are dealing with is an infection.


I see.Apparently there is no improvement.Her condition is deteriorating.Should I start dosing with enro right now or should I start dosing enro after the 4 days course the vet has given ? Two days have already passed since I started dosing with Doxy but there is no apparent improvement.She is not digesting any feed.Any suggestions on what to do with her diet ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well it would take more than 2 days to see improvement, but I would do the Enro. Is her crop still full? She shouldn't be fed until it empties. Have you added a bit of ACV to her water?


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Well it would take more than 2 days to see improvement, but I would do the Enro. Is her crop still full? She shouldn't be fed until it empties. Have you added a bit of ACV to her water?



Yess her crop is still full .She has turned into a skeleton  I don't have ACV , are there any other alternative to ACV ? *Will saline work ?* Any suggestions on anything that might atleast help her to digest so that her health does not deteriorate...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She may need the Enroflox, plus a medication for yeast, as the food has been sitting in the crop for so long. Your vets don't seem to do very well with birds. My vet would have flushed the crop to empty it and find out what bacteria was in there. And the bird would be on Enro, and Nystatin for yeast, and maybe canker med. 

You must have apple cider vinegar over there to add to the water. Just a bit. It changes the PH in the crop, to make the crop environment less friendly to yeast. You can make applesauce also, by peeling apples and cooking them till soft, with just a bit of water. But the crop needs to empty before giving anything else.
It could be a blockage from something she ate, or canker. Could be yeast. If the crop doesn't empty she is going to die.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Articles on sour crop 

http://www.petalia.com.au/templates...tory_no=1548&specie=&url.section=answers#ct-3

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/products/veterinary_medicines2.html
Scroll down to sour crop

http://www.wildbirdrehabhaven.org/Information/faq.html


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Vets here in my country are not good.I think its the infection in the vent area that has created digestive problems.She was eating a few days back but she stopped eating and digesting probably because of the infection in the vent area.I will start Enro from today .She is probably living the last days of her life  but I will try as much as I can to save her life


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Really wouldn't hurt to treat her for canker too if you have Metronidazole. Even that could cause an infection. I'm really sorry she has to suffer all this.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Really wouldn't hurt to treat her for canker too if you have Metronidazole. Even that could cause an infection. I'm really sorry she has to suffer all this.


10mg Enro per day(for the infection) with yoghurt and ACV( for indigestion due to sour crop if that is what's causing the indigestion ).....thats what Im dosing right now.Is it fine ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well the Enro is good for an infection, and ACV will help the gut PH. Wouldn't give a lot of yoghurt.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Well the Enro is good for an infection, and ACV will help the gut PH. Wouldn't give a lot of yoghurt.


How much yoghurt and ACV should I give ???


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

One tablespoon of ACV to a gallon of water is what I do. And I wouln't use yoghurt. I use human grade probiotics or bird probiotics that can be gotten online or some drugstores. Here we have health food stores where they can be bought.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

She passed away this morning 

She had 4-5 days old feed in her gut.I though it was better to flush it out.I turned her upside down , gently messages her crop and flushed out the feed but she passed away at that moment.I did it earlier as well but she was fine but apparently she could not take it this time...Was it a bad idea ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She could have aspirated. That's a dangerous thing to do to the poor bird. At least she is now out of pain.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> She could have aspirated. That's a dangerous thing to do to the poor bird. At least she is now out of pain.


Was it my fault ? Could she be saved if I had not done that ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She may have died anyway, as she had some kind of infection or something going on, but I think you did aspirate her. You shouldn't do that with a bird, as it is too easy for the food to go down the wrong way, and where she died right after, then there is a good chance that you did aspirate her.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry for your loss. Draining the crop by holding the bird upside down is a risky procedure. My doctor told me that it is the only way to save a pigeon with impacted crop, but the procedure involves some risk. Maybe earlier on she had enough alertness hence did not aspirate, while in the later stages she became too weak.

She would have died a slow death anyway, since food in her crop wasn't moving for 4 days. I had a similar experience in July, when my doctor did the same procedure on the 3rd day of sour crop, and my pigeon died because of aspiration.
It's not your fault, you tried your best. From both our similar experiences, what I feel is - If a pigeon is found with crop that doesn't seem to be emptying, do crop massages/flushing and administering of medicines etc on DAY 1 itself. By Day2 or 3, the bird starts to go downhill and can no longer endure the stress of crop flushing.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Thank you Jay3 for your advice/support/suggestions all through the days 

Kunju , thanks for sharing your experience...Feeling a bit relieved


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kunju said:


> Sorry for your loss. Draining the crop by holding the bird upside down is a risky procedure.* My doctor told me that it is the only way to save a pigeon with impacted crop, but the procedure involves some risk.* Maybe earlier on she had enough alertness hence did not aspirate, while in the later stages she became too weak.



We don't do that over here. We empty the crop with a syringe and feeding tube. If done correctly, it is much safer for the bird. Your way is too risky for aspiration.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes Jay3's method would be much safer and much less stressful. I think it has to be done carefully, and the feeding tube should not touch the crop wall while contents are getting syringed out. But if larger pieces are stuck in the crop, the feeding tube may not work.


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