# Nesting in a plant pot



## Pisciottano

Hello,

I hope somebody remembers me. I haven't written for some time as I have been away in Uruguay for 6 months and any way my "pigeon adventure" finished when the baby pigeon born in my balcony flew away last summer.

Would you believe that my last summer's visitors are back?! What intrigues me is that instead of building a nest in the traditional way (with little twigs and so on), they have installed themselves in a plant pot which has no plant in it but is filled with compost. The first egg has been laid today. Is this something common? Isn't this dangerous for the little one's health?
Can somebody help me? I'd be so grateful. Thanks a lot. Gladys (Pisciottano)


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## Skyeking

Hi Gladys!

Welcome back.

Pigeons will make nests inside bowls, as this simulates a nesting bowl. They don't actually make a nest out of typical nesting material like other birds,if there are other things available like a plant pot as it works for a nest bowl. If the compost is actually dry and won't rot, like little pieces of moss or roots, it won't hurt. But if it is actually dirt that can get damp I don't think it would be good for them to use.

If there is an egg laid already, there may not be much you can do about the bedding underneath without disturbing them. 

Keep an eye out and see if everything is going well and the dirt doesn't stick or dry out on the egg.


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## Maggie-NC

Gladys, Treesa gave you the best advice. I just wanted to say hi and welcome back. I was thinking about you recently and wondered if you had gone back to France. How nice your birds are back to keep you company.


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## Pisciottano

Thank you very much Treesa and Maggie,
 I would like to point out that in spite of the fact that an egg has already been laid, the future mum and dad are bringing little twigs which they place on the compost in the plant pot. Isn't this putting the cart before the horse? Excuse my ignorance. I'd thought that I had learned a lot last summer but apparently ..............I would appreciate your comments. Thanks again, Gladys


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## Skyeking

While it would be easier and proper for them to build their little nest before eggs are layed, sometimes they can't locate the SUPPLIES to meet the DEMANDS. It takes them time to forage for it, and when mother nature calls, the eggs have to be layed somewhere.

My birds will actually continue to build their nests after the eggs are layed, when supplies are available.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

Welcome back, you have been gone for a long time but I do remember you I have to be honest though and at first my memory was a little foggy. However, I had corresponded with you and I re-checked your old posts and I remember you now

Treesa is right, pigeons are always adding to their nests, even after the eggs are laid. 

I'm glad you've got another pair on your balcony though to watch as it seems to give you a lot of enjoyment. Keep us posted on the progress and if you have any other questions


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## TerriB

Grace has also demonstrated an interest in using a dirt-filled pot for nesting. If I could figure out a material that wouldn't be too dusty, I might offer it to her next time.

Seeing the first egg seems to shift the males into a hyper-drive of building, as does cooler weather. Good luck with your new neighbors!


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## John_D

Hi Gladys,

I have a pair here who are regularly laying eggs in a plant tub, and like yours they find a few twigs and feathers now and then to put round the eggs 

Of course, the eggs don't hatch, as I swap them for plastic eggs (humane population control).

I remember you, cos I thought you were in Wales  

John


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## Pisciottano

*nesting in a plant pot*

Hi everybody,

Thank you so much for your helpful replies. I'd like to point out that the couple nesting in my plant pot are the same ones that built a nest on my balcony last summer. At that time they had placed their nest between two plants away from the balcony door. The pot they are using now was not protected by any plants and it was very close to the door and practically in my way out. Last year they didn't seem to mind when I came out to water the plants and change their water and so on. But this year they are very nervous and leave the nest if I come near the door. I have moved the nest away from the door and placed a plant next to it so that they may feel less exposed but this has not changed their attitude. Any ideas?

Another thing which seems different from last summer is the periods of time each one of them spends in the nest. Last year their turns were very regular: mum's turn was from about 6 pm to 11 am and dad's for the rest of the time.In other words she covered about 16 hours and he 8 hours. This year it is all very erratic and I have the impression that dad only shows up for about 4 hours in the afternoon. I feel like reporting him to the League for the Protection of Mothers To Be, should I? Seriously now, does all this mean anything to you? 

My questions are probably very naif and I count on your tolerance and help. Thank you again. Gladys


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## TerriB

They could be more nervous because they've become more experienced regarding potential dangers to their babies. That was a smart idea to try to offer the nest some camoflage.


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## Pisciottano

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Gladys,
> 
> Welcome back, you have been gone for a long time but I do remember you I have to be honest though and at first my memory was a little foggy. However, I had corresponded with you and I re-checked your old posts and I remember you now
> 
> Treesa is right, pigeons are always adding to their nests, even after the eggs are laid.
> 
> I'm glad you've got another pair on your balcony though to watch as it seems to give you a lot of enjoyment. Keep us posted on the progress and if you have any other questions


 Hi Brad,

In my last message I was wondering why my male pigeon is only "putting in" about four hours a day in the nest but nobody seems interested. Mum takes care of the eggs some 20 hours on the go. Won't this exhaust her? Is it common for this to happen? 
Last year (it is the same couple) he took a 8 hours turn, I'm sure of that as I used to watch them very closely. He used to arrive about 11 in the morning and stayed until 7 in the evening when she took over. Can there be a reason for this change? Hope I'm not tiring you out. Will be happy to hear from you. Regards, Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

It could be that this male is not a very good parent. Not all of them are and perhaps he's shucking his duties to feed more or chase after other hens. He might even have another mate with babies that he's helping too. It's not completely unusual for a male to have more than one mate at a time. This would spread his time pretty thin

The hen will sit on her eggs as long as she has to and until she is relieved from her mate. It's not easy when she has to go long periods of time on her nest without help, that's for sure. You could help her by providing seed and water so she doesn't have to go far to grab a bite to eat and a drink


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## Lovebirds

Pisciottano said:


> Hi Brad,
> 
> In my last message I was wondering why my male pigeon is only "putting in" about four hours a day in the nest but nobody seems interested. Mum takes care of the eggs some 20 hours on the go. Won't this exhaust her? Is it common for this to happen?
> Last year (it is the same couple) he took a 8 hours turn, I'm sure of that as I used to watch them very closely. He used to arrive about 11 in the morning and stayed until 7 in the evening when she took over. Can there be a reason for this change? Hope I'm not tiring you out. Will be happy to hear from you. Regards, Gladys


Gladys, I wouldn't worry about it to much. One of them will be with the eggs all the time and it's not hurting the hen to sit. If she didn't want to, she would get up and the cock bird would take over. I see them do this in my loft all the time. Some pairs have schedules you could set your watch by and others?, well it's a toss up as to which one might be on the nest, if not both. And the amorous cock birds will sit, looking like they are counting the minutes until they can get off of "nest duty" and go "play" some more. I've got one cock "Roosevelt" who looks so miserable while sitting on the eggs. But once those babies hatch, it's a different look and a different bird. He loves his babies, but isn't to thrilled with "egg" duty..........


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## Pisciottano

*nesting in a plant pot*

Hi Brad,

Hm! The possibility of a second nest seems reasonable but couldn't it be another nest of the same couple? I say this because up to the time the second egg was laid the two of them kept coming and going several times a day always together. Also before the first egg was laid when the hen would occupy the empty nest for short periods he would stay around until they left together. It was only when they started to sit on the TWO eggs on a permanent basis that one or the other started to remain alone on the balcony. 

Going back a little bit, some weeks ago they paid a visit to the balcony together, they stayed for a little while and finally flew away. It was unusually cold for the time of the year and I hadn't yet got my interior plants out on to the balcony which was then completely empty. They came back about a month later and you know the story. Could it not be that at the time of their first visit they decided to build a nest somewhere else? What do you think?

I'm just trying to figure out how these birds organize their little life. I don't want to tell any nonsense to my great grand children (I have 5 of them and one on the way) Hope I'm not boring you too much. Thanks a lot, Brad Gladys


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## Pisciottano

Hello Renee,

Thanks so much for your encouraging message. Unfortunately, she cannot leave the nest when she wants because her mate is not there to see that she has left it. She stays put until he comes to take over. These are wild pigeons completely free to come and go but they chose my balcony for their next last summer and came back this year. Yes, I gather the little ones will be hatched successfully. It is mum I was worrying about. Today dad stayed 5 hours which is an improvement! Let's see how it goes when the babies are there. It is interesting to hear that there can be differences in the behaviour of these couples. This is only my second experience and with the same couple! Thanks again. Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

Yes, as Renee pointed out, you shouldn't worry too much really at this point. The hen wouldn't stay on the nest to the point of starvation or dying. It's really hard to know for sure what is going on with these 2 pigeons, particularly the male bird it would seem

I have a single female pigeon who lays eggs herself regularly. She sits on her nest 24 hours a day, non stop. The only times she gets up is to eat, drink, poop and stretch. These times are quite brief too, 5 minutes at a time maybe then it's back to her nest

It would really help this hen out if your could provide a dish of seed and a bowl of water though. This will keep her strength up and she'll do just fine for the longer periods that her mate isn't around.


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## Pisciottano

*nesting in a plant pot*

Hi Brad,
Allright, then. Water I have been giving them from the beginning. I'll see what I can find in the way of seeds at the supermarket. I doubt I'll find special food for pigeons, I will for pet birds like canaries. Epinal is a small town (35000 inhabitants), the only pet shop we used to have closed some years ago. Last summer I did put some seeds (millet) on the balcony not so much for the parents but for the little one when I thought his parents had abandoned him. Unfortunately it was the sparrows who ate them in no time. There were so many that a neighbour (you can guess the type) asked me if I was keeping birds in my apartment, which, of course I wasn't. Anyway, I'll provide whatever type of bird seed I can find and we will see. Thanks again. Gladys


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## Pisciottano

Hi everybody,

Just reporting a little bit on what is going on with my non conservative pigeons. I'm glad to say that dad has gradually increased his shift in the nest from 3 hours to a full 7 hours period. But so far as a time table is concerned well you never know who is where and when. Today he waited patiently until 9 pm before she showed up to take her night shift. The only sure thing is that SHE takes the night shift starting any time between 6 pm and 9 pm.
Last summer this same couple kept very regular hours. I cannot help wondering why they are so different this year.

I have finally found a seed mixture for them. It is really intended for doves and is composed of millet plata, rye, wheat, buckwheat, oats, vetch, corn, and rice. There are two other seeds that I cannot translate: black dari and white dari. One of the seeds in the packet is black and they don't seem to care for it. Does anybody know which one it is and why they don't like it? This mixture is the nearest thing I could find as they don't seem to sell food specifically for pigeons. 

The first egg was laid on the 9th July and the second one two days later. They should be hatched in the next 4 or 5 days?? Last year only one little one survived. Hope will do better this time.

This will be all for this time. Any helpful advice about seeds? Thanks a lot. Gladys


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## maryjane

Hi Gladys,
Thanks for keeping an eye on them . If you are unable to find pigeon seed, you can offer them a mix of other bird seeds, and add some raw peanuts if you like. Safflower is their favorite (as far as I've seen), a seed similar to a sunflower seed when it's shelled. Those are a bit hard to find in grocery stores, though. My birds also like a mix of fresh veggies and fruits; romaine lettuce, apples cut up, bits of orange, bits of carrot, coleslaw mix, etc. (Uncooked) popcorn is part of their pigeon mix from the feed store, so you might try some popcorn, and some kind of grit in the form of oyster shells or similar is always good but if you can't locate it, they'll find other ways of obtaining grit since they're in the wild. My birds do like a bit of popped popcorn once in awhile, too. What fun for you to have "pet" wild birds, and to look forward to babies appearing soon!


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## Pisciottano

Hello Maryjane,
Thanks so much for your reply. I don't suppose you know which of the seeds I mention in my message is the black one my pigeons dont like? If I could identify it by name I would avoid buying a mix which includes it. It is the only black seed in the package, in fact it is more like a grain than a seed. When I bought this mix I had the hen in mind because of the long hours she remains in the nest. But, even if she does eat some of it very daintly and leaving the black grains aside, it is the cock who really goes for it and gulps it all in in no time!!!!!!!!! What surprises me is that he does this when he ARRIVES for his "shift". I would have thought that he would have already eaten BEFORE taking his turn. Well, I won't bore any longer with my lack of experience. Thanks again for writing to me. Your advice will not be lost. Gladys


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## TerriB

The seed mix you listed seems like it has a nice variety. Not sure what dari is, except that it is in some pigeon mixes. The only black seed I've seen in the pigeon mix is poppy seed, which the hens LOVE!  If you want to supplement your mix, you might add some protein (dried peas or lentils) while they are raising babies. During cooler weather, popcorn is especially helpful as a source of calories to help them stay warm.

Regarding the erratic shift schedule, especially with the male's ravenous appetite after he has been out and about, I wonder if the food sources they used previously have become more erratic. Most feral pigeons have several feeding sites they can use. If those aren't available, it can take awhile to search for dinner, if they can find anything to eat. Luckily for this pair, your "kitchen" is open for business!


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## Pisciottano

Hello Terri,

Thanks for your advice. Here is a bit of news: I have two newly born baby guests on my balcony. The first one was already there when I got up at 7 o'clock this morning, and the second one had been hatched when I came back home some six hours later. The egg shells have disappeared. I always wonder what happens to them after hatching. Do you know?The little ones are very tiny. For the moment I have only seen dad feed "them" but I get the impresion that it is always the same one who gets fed. 

I have had to move the bowl with the seeds right close to the nest hidden behind a packet of compost otherwise the sparrows "steal" all the seeds. These pigeons don't seem to care but I think that if the sparrows came near the nest neither mom nor dad would appreciate it? I like sparrows but there are too many, they seem to pass the word on and each day there are more and more coming for the feast. I was sorry for them this morning as they kept looking for the seed bowl and making such a fuss.I did leave the water at the usual place for them. Hope you don't judge me too severely.

This will be all for this time. Will write again if in trouble. For the moment I feed the parents and they in turn feed the babies, so all is well. Thanks again, Gladys


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## Skyeking

Thanks for your advice. Here is a bit of news: I have two newly born baby guests on my balcony. The first one was already there when I got up at 7 o'clock this morning, and the second one had been hatched when I came back home some six hours later. 

*Congratulations on the hatchlings!  *

The egg shells have disappeared. I always wonder what happens to them after hatching. Do you know?

*They probably became airborn and are out of sight. From my own pigeons, I have seen them dropped out of the nest, and become air born by wind, as they are so light. I also have some pigeons that leave them in the nest, and I remove them.*

The little ones are very tiny. For the moment I have only seen dad feed "them" but I get the impresion that it is always the same one who gets fed. 
*
I would definitely keep my eye on them, and make sure both are getting fed. *

I have had to move the bowl with the seeds right close to the nest hidden behind a packet of compost otherwise the sparrows "steal" all the seeds. These pigeons don't seem to care but I think that if the sparrows came near the nest neither mom nor dad would appreciate it? 


*Thank you for watching over them and giving them food and water, you have made their lives easier. They won't mess with the sparrows, unless the sparrows get too close, then they may be seen as a threat.*


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## Maggie-NC

Gladys, congratulations on the new babies and I hope they thrive.

The black seed you mention may be what we call rape seed. They are perfectly round and our pigeons love them as much as they do safflour seed. I think thistle seed (which goldfinches love) are black but more elongated than the rape seed.

Personally, I have never been a big fan of feeding them popped popcorn because I always worry about it swelling up in them. The unpopped popcorn seems to be just fine for them.


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## Pisciottano

Hello anyone who knows,

I'd like to attach some photos I've managed to take of my baby pigeons and their parents to my messages to you. Can someone explain to me how to do this? Thanks a lot. Gladys


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## Skyeking

Pisciottano said:


> Hello anyone who knows,
> 
> I'd like to attach some photos I've managed to take of my baby pigeons and their parents to my messages to you. Can someone explain to me how to do this? Thanks a lot. Gladys



Hi Gladys,

You can either upload them here from your picture file, or just post the web address of the picture, if they are on webshots, or another web file.

You have to make sure the picture are under 100kb, before they can be attached. After you post your messge, click on "manage attachments", browse your picture file and save the pic you want and then upload it to our forum.


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## Pisciottano

Here I go trying to post photos.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

If you want, you can email me your pictures and I'll gladly post them for you when I can.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys and All, 

Here are are the photos that Gladys took of the pigeons on her balcony. The babies are just adorable and the parents look mighty fine too! You have a beautiful balcony with a great view, Gladys

Sorry it took me so long to get them posted, I had some things to do around here and am just now getting to the posts/emails etc.


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## Maggie-NC

Brad thanks for posting Gladys' pictures because they are great! She captured mom or pop feeding the babies at just the right moment. They are soooo cute!

Gladys, love the view of the water. What a great place to live.


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## Vasp

Aw, they seem to look so caring, standing there in front of the nest, watching the babies. I always did love pigeons.


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## Pisciottano

Hi Brad,
Many many thanks for posting my photos. With your permision I will send you some new ones when the babies have grown a little. I might add a photo of the view from this balcony since the water has caught your eye. Will be in touch. Thanks again. Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Pisciottano said:


> Hi Brad,
> Many many thanks for posting my photos. With your permision I will send you some new ones when the babies have grown a little. Thanks again. Gladys


Hi Gladys, 

You're welcome and feel free to email me more pictures when you're ready

I'm glad you decided to put a bowl of seed and water out for the pigeon pair, this will really help them out to feed their babies and maintain their strength and energy


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## Skyeking

Oooooh the babies ar precious and adorable.  Thank you for sharing them Gladys.

...and Brad, thanks for posting them.


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## Pisciottano

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your mail. I'm glad that you liked the photos. It's encouraging. Will send some more later on, view from the balcony included.

Here is a surprise, to ME in any case. I've noticed for the first time that my hen pigeon has a blue band around one of her legs. Isn't this extraordinaire for a wild city pigeon?! As I mentioned before, this is the same couple who nested on my balcony last summer, but I had never noticed her band before today. I must tell you that I've recently had a cataracte operation which has greatly improved my eyesight Perhaps this blue band has always been there?! Who would want to do this for a wild pigeon and above all HOW!! She is not a friendly bird, she just tolerates me but no question of eating out of my hand or coming near me. In fact, I have found them both more unsociable than last year. 

Perhaps I am making a fuss for a very ommon occurrence; if so, please be patient with me. Thanks for "listening". Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Pisciottano said:


> I've noticed for the first time that my hen pigeon has a blue band around one of her legs. Who would want to do this for a wild pigeon and above all HOW!! . Gladys



Hi Gladys, 

I'm not going to be on much longer, I'm in North America and it's 4:30am, lol. In any case, your "blue bar" pigeon might have once been a domesticated pigeon, but gone "wild"....this is not rare at all. Sometimes, pigeons that are domestic, ie:racing/homing pigeons that belonged to someone...they get lost and find their way back into the "wild". Domestic pigeons can very easily integrate back into their wild ancestry and do well. 

Can you see if there are any numbers/letters on this band...or, is it just a coloured band. Permanent bands are usually placed on from serious racing pigeon people. "snap on bands" with only colours could indicate a pet only.


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## Pisciottano

WOW Brad, I do hope you don't have some kind of modern computer that wakes you up when you have a message!!!!! Or were you just back from a nice outing in town.

Regarding the blue band around my pigeon's leg, to be able to see if there are any numbers or names on it I would have to hold her after managing to catch her. Hmm... I don't think she would appreciate that. I'm working on improving their trust on me and wouldn't want to spoil things. For a "perhaps ex domestic bird" she is very unsociable. And so is the cock. Perhaps they have had a bad experience since I last saw them last year. Last summer they were not so nervous. 

This will be all for this time. I hope you had a good resting sleep. Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

LOL (Laughing), no, I don't have a computer that wakes me up when I have a message, no worries. I'm usually up late at night because I work during the night and I'm just used to that

If you have binoculars, you might be able to see if there are numbers on the band. It's not really important though seeing that your wild pair seems to be happily living a life in the wild

I think you should continue to build trust with this pair and just enjoy watching them


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys and All, 

Here are 3 new updated photos of Gladys' "balcony" family and chicks...they are growing fast as they always do. Pigeons have such quick childhoods and in the blink of an eye, they are grown up! lol

Gladys, you are a caring lady for peacefully watching, enjoying and documenting this family on your balcony. In turn, this family is so lucky they chose your balcony to raise a family on


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## Maggie-NC

Brad, thanks for posting these beautiful pictures.

Gladys, You are so kind and good to let them raise on your balcony. I know you're enjoying watching them. The pictures you took are very good and show the interaction of the parents with the babies so well. I just love them.


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## alvin

Hi Gladys. 
Wow. have you seen the difference in size between the first set of pictures and the most recent ones? 
My, don't they grow up fast....

Anyhow. From a quick scan of the posts here I notice that you are curious as to what to feed the parents. I understand that you do not have a pet shop in your town.

Well, Pijies are seed eaters. If you can get your hands on peanuts (raw, unsalted, shelled) that's good. I hear that Safflower seeds are particularly sought after by the more descerning pijies.

To Pijies, that stuff is Caviar, and Fillet Mingeon. - Of course they'll love it.

But your average Pij will be quite happy with Popcorn (not the popped kind, the grains), or Pearl Barley, or dried peas.
Now, that is more like Potatoes, Carrots, and Cabbage.

It's not as nice, but it is cheap, and does the job.


Hope it helps.


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## Lin Hansen

Gladys,

Just wanted to jump in to tell you how much I'm enjoying reading your thread....your pictures are really wonderful! Thanks, Brad, for posting them for us.

Linda


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## Feather

Gladys,

I stopped in today as well. I wanted to see what you had growing in that pot. Well your little flowers are just beautiful. And as Linda, I enjoyed this thread as well.

Feather


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## Skyeking

Hi Gladys!

I really enjoy seeing these up close and personal pics of the family. You are to be commended for making life easier for mom and pop and the kids. You are helping raise some very happy, and HEALTHY babies, by providing them accomodations and food and water. I wish everyone would be so kind to our noble ferals.

I can't thank you enough!


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## Pisciottano

*Naughty sparrows*

Hello everyone,
Brad, thanks again for posting my photos which brought me such enchanting messages from so many of you. I'm hoping soon to get hold of the technican who sold me the camera on his return from his holidays and let him show me how to do rhe posting myself as I don't want to become a lifetime responsibility for you!!

Alvin, thanks a lot for your advice on my "food concern" I've takeb good note of your recommendations. Fortunately, after some "investigation" I learnt about a place in town where they sell mostly plants but do a little business on food for domestic animals and birds. I've got two different packets of seeds for turtle doves and doves (what is the difference) and one of the mixtures include crushed oyster shells. So I am not so worried anymore. I wonder, though, if when the little ones will start to eat by themselves and will have access to this adult food, will this be a problem? 

My present problem are the sparrows. Not only do they eat the food but they scatter half it all over the balcony floor. I've moved the bowl right up to the nest hoping that the pigeons would not appreciate the sparrows coming too close to the babies but.......nothing doing. The sparrows soon discovered the hidden bowl and neither the cock nor the hen seemed to care. So, here I am daily recivering the dusty scattered seeds , rinsing them in a sieve under the water tap and letting them dry before putting them back in the bowl. Is this necessary, drying them I mean? Surprisingly and fortunately there is no poop from the parents on the balcony floor but I know there will be when the two "youngsters" start walking around. Then I will not be able to recover he scattered seeds anymore. What can I do short of shooting the sparrows??!! Any ideas?

To all of you who have written so nicely to me, which includes Maggie, Linda, Feather and Treesa, thank you very much for your kind comments. Believe me I enjoy immensely this opportunity of watching nature so comfortably, it is like having a good seat at tha theatre. I'm working on assembling all the photos in an album with the sequence from the first egg to the full development of the little ones for my great grandchildren. I usually invent stories for them and my husband draws the characters and situations as the case may be. But this time it will be a real story with real protagonists. As you can see my balcony family is giving me more than I'm giving them. As a plus, I have you all helping me. 

Well, I think I have chatted enough for today. Will keep in touch. Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

You're most welcome and I don't mind posting the pictures. I may not get to them as soon as you send them but I do eventually I think the reason you are having difficulty posting your photos is because they are too large. There is a limitation on the size that they can be in our forum and that is 100kb. Most cameras these days don't take pictures as small as this so they need to be resized by software on our computers. Another option is to post them to an online folder and then provide the link to your album in your post. In any case, I really don't mind posting them for you



Pisciottano said:


> I wonder, though, if when the little ones will start to eat by themselves and will have access to this adult food, will this be a problem?


I don't see this being a problem Gladys. I can't imagine that the turtle dove mix or the "dove" mix would be much different and either should be accepted and appreciated by the young pigeons once they start to eat on their own.



Pisciottano said:


> My present problem are the sparrows. Not only do they eat the food but they scatter half it all over the balcony floor. *So, here I am daily recivering the dusty scattered seeds , rinsing them in a sieve under the water tap and letting them dry before putting them back in the bowl*.


I wouldn't recommend rinsing and drying the seeds. Rinsing them with water and before they are dry could be causing mould to grow on them. I wouldn't worry if they are dusty or not, this won't harm the pigeons.

As to the sparrow problem, my only suggestion would be is to put the food dishes out for a limited time. Let the pigeons eat what they want and then sweep up the scattered seeds and dispose of them. You could put the seed dish out a few times during the day for short intervals. Perhaps at 10am, then 3pm, then again around 7pm for about 10 minutes each. This will get the pigeons into a routine and they will eat their fill at these times and they will chase the sparrows away when they are eating. It's a difficult balance to achieve when feeding wild birds because once word goes out, they will all come for a hand out; sparrows and pigeons alike

Hope this helps.


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## Feather

Gladys,

I wish that you could post some of your stories on the forum. A good story teller is just what we need. Pigeons are lovely little beings that don't seem to get very much respect. They are such loyal mates and good parents.

Your stories for your grandchildren will teach them while they are young that every creature on our planet deserves it's space, even if they do over lap a little bit. 

Best Wishes, and thank you for over seeing this family of feathers.

Feather


----------



## Pisciottano

Hello Brad,

I will try your suggestions regarding the seed schedules. If I succeed in discouraging the sparrows there will be no seeds scattering. My pigeons eat very neatly. Yes, really! As for the food attracting other pigeons....... no danger. When once or twice other pigeons tried "to visit"
they were chased in no unmistakeably manner. My pigeons seem to consider that ALL of the balcony is their territory, available to the sparrows but not to other pigeons. They seem to grow twice their size and they make the most angry sounds when chasing them, specially the cock. Will keep you posted on the results of my "sparrow strategy". Bye, for now. Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Good luck Gladys, I hope the plan works


----------



## Pisciottano

*Irresponsible parents?*

Hello,

My baby pigeons spent the tenth night of their life alone. Yesterday evening mum and dad arrived together at the time mum usually starts her night shift "covering" the little ones. While mum fed them dad waited patiently perched on my kitchen window but after a while he went back to the balcony and you never saw such a seductive dance, cooing and spreading his tail. Finally she left the kids and joined him and up they flew away together. By then the sun was going down and I wonder whether she would come back to spend the night with her little ones. Well..........she didn't. Aren't they too young to sleep alone? They are in fact NINE DAYS old.

Today the couple came twice (it is 3 pm in France). They arrived together and while mum fed the babies dad ate and ate and ate.I have a short video showing this which I will send to patient Brad por posting. Once the feeding was over the couple flew away together again. In other words, there is no more taking turns and no more "baby sitting". I don't remember things happening this way last year when they had one baby. Is this usual behaviour?

Many thanks for your help. Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

I think it depends on several factors why the parents seem to be "irresponsible". It's also hot enough outside for the babies to be left alone overnight at their age. As long as the parents are still coming to feed the babies, there is no problem here

Send the video when you're ready and I'll post it


----------



## Pisciottano

*Computer tricks*

Hello Brad,
Some days ago my computer "told" me that the video I had sent to you could not be delivered for some obscure reasons that I didn't understand. My computer experience is no better than my pigeon esperience.Today I tried again and looking at my sent mail I see that in fact the video appears to have been sent successfully!! If this is so you will have received it twice. I also sent some updating photos on developments on my balcony.

The young pigeons are doing very well but I'm a little worried because the parents poops, infrequent as they are, have hardly any solid matter and is sorrounded by a whitish looking liquid. I saw this for the first time today. As I said before they hardly poop at all on the balcony (they never have done it more than twice a day). It is significant that both birds have this problem, is it not?On the other hand they both look fine. I hope they will not pass it on to the babies, whatever it is. The babies' poops are normal. Any idea what this can be?

Would be happy to receive some advice keeping in mind that these are wild ferals I cannot hold in my hands. Thanks a lot. Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

I got your new pictures, but the video did not come through. It may be too large to send either through your email or mine receiving it, I'm not really sure.

I'm not sure about the parents droppings either. It would seem like they haven't eaten enough going by what you said, that there is hardly any fecal matter in them. The white portion is the urates or urine of the birds and this sounds normal. As long as they and the babies are doing well, I wouldn't worry too much. There is really not much you can do anyway since these are wild birds and because you can't catch them like you said.

In any case folks, here are the new photos of the youngsters, parents and the view from Gladys's balcony....quite beautiful! The babies have sure grown and appear to be doing just fine


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

And the next couple....


----------



## Reti

Great pics and adorable babies.
Thanks for sharing.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

Very lovely pictures, Gladys! Thank you so much for sharing with us. Your view is gorgeous, and the baby pigeons are positively precious and adorable .. also very healthy looking.

Terry


----------



## mr squeaks

Gladys, the poops in the pictures look fine to my inexperienced eye...at least from what I've heard...

Your views are SPECTACULAR! Looks like the pijies are getting a great view too!

Many thanks for sharing! The squabs looks GREAT!


----------



## Lin Hansen

Gladys,

Just wanted to say that the babies look great and that it looks like you live in such a beautiful place! Thanks for keeping us updated...I enjoy reading your posts.

And thanks to Brad for posting Gladys' pictures.

Linda


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## Pisciottano

*Parents droppings*

Hi everybody,
Many thanks for your reassuring mail. How silly of me, I never thought about the urine, I was afraid that that was diarrhea. I can assure you that the cock and hen eat very VERY VERY well, especially the cock, he eats non-stop during 30 minutes or more and that 3 or 4 times a day. Usually 7:30 am, 1 pm and 7:30 pm, but sometimes he also pays a visit at 3:30 pm Same thing for the hen but she doesn't spend such a long time eating.I'll try to send a photo of the parents,you will see how well they look. By the way, the droppings in the picture are from the babies not from the parents. One thing I found extraordinary was that the babies have the "sense" to push their "bottom" outside the nest to poop so as to keep their nest clean!!! Is this normal behaviour or are my little ones particularly clever?? That's a joke, of course.

About the video, my silly computer tells me it has been sent successfully twice. Next time my technician visits I'll see if he can figure out why the computer "lies" to me. 

This will be all for this time. Do forgive my inexperience. I wonder what silly question I'll be still asking next time. Thanks again. Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

Well, it could be that the parents, (although eating tons of the seed you are providing), haven't really digesting very much of it themselves when they pooped. "Your" two babies are at the age now where they would basically be eating whole seeds directly from the parents crop. The parents eat the seeds, drink some water and then fill up the babies crops with what they've just eaten. You just may be seeing their droppings when they haven't digested any or much seeds themselves.

As for the babies pushing their bums over the edge of the nest to poop, yep this is pretty normal for all baby pigeons, they are all smart that way

Yes, when your technician friend comes over again, ask them about the video email and see if you can resend it and we'll try to post it again for you


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Folks, 

New pictures of Gladys' feral pair and balcony hot off the press! Seems like the sparrows are making themselves to home quite nicely with all that feed around. The pigeons are indifferent just as Gladys had mentioned. 

Can't really confirm health with these pictures Gladys but the pigeons should be well since they are well fed and looked after by you


----------



## Reti

Those birds have the best accommodations they could possibly have.
Great pics, great view, and great looking pijies.
Thanks for sharing the pics.

Reti


----------



## Lin Hansen

Yes, Gladys, what a gorgeous view you have....this makes you even more generous---giving up being able to fully use your balcony for yourself---just to accomodate these parents and babies. Thanks to you and Brad for the latest pictures.

Linda


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## Pisciottano

*Too big for their nest?*

High everybody,

Last night for the first time Bully and Tiny, who are now 20 days old, did not sleep in their nest but on the balcony floor close to the nest but out of it. I gather that they have grown too big to be comfortable. This is also the first time they walked out of the nest. Should I provide them with some material to rest on?

I must say this complicates my cleaning routine. Until now I would lift the nest with the youngsters in it, place it away from their corner, escrape and wash the floor all around the nest and then put the nest back. Except for the first time, when they became a little aggressive, they seemed to enjoy all this maneuver making little sounds similar to those they make when the parents come to feed them. I was forgettting to say that I always finished by giving them some seeds which I let slide from my hand into their nest, as a reward for being good children. I only give them a few seeds as I don't want to interfere with their parents' feeding routine, it is just a way of letting them know that grandma can also provide what they need. I'm getting a kick out of this since the parents are not at all friendly. 

It is now 7:30 am here and the little ones do not give any signs of wanting to get back into their nest. Their father who has just fed them and is busy with his own breakfast doesn't seem at all put out. If they start walking around the balcony I'm going to be scared stiff that they will fall off. DO THEY EVER??

I'll keep an eye on developments. A bientôt. Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Pisciottano said:


> High everybody,
> 
> I gather that they have grown too big to be comfortable. This is also the first time they walked out of the nest. *Should I provide them with some material to rest on?*


 


Pisciottano said:


> If they start walking around the balcony I'm going to be scared stiff that they will fall off. DO THEY EVER??


 

Hi Gladys, 

The babies are growing up quickly and yes, leaving the nest is normal. They are too big for it now and likely want to test their legs and wings. You don't have to provide anything for them to rest on, they will be fine without. If you want to though, you can and they might take advantage of that.

I don't think you have anything to worry about with them falling off the balcony. If you want to place something in front of the edge like a board or something along the bottom, this would help ease your fears They shouldn't venture too close or fall, but it's certainly not unthinkable.

Thanks for the update and we're awaiting more pictures and the video when you can


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Folks, 

Two more pictures of the goings-on on her balcony, courtesy of Gladys

Sparrows feeding while dad feeds babies:









Dad feeding his babies:


----------



## Feather

Gladys, 

You have the most beautiful view. It looks like you live in a story book. Do those little birds trim your pies like they did in Snow White?

Thank you for bringing us into your world.

Feather


----------



## Pisciottano

Feather,

I'm not sure about the little birds on the photo "trimming my pies" but I can assure you that they are great at creating a real pandemonium on my balcony........scattering the seeds all over the place, tipping over the water bowl, etc.etc. I have given up chasing them away so that now they are part of the "true" story I'm writing for my great grandchildren, illustrated by the photos covering the whole period from the laying of the first egg to, hopefully, the moment they will fly away. I'm referring to the pigeons, of course. As for the sparrows, well, they will have to have their role in the story, won't they? 

Feather, thanks so much for writing and for your kind words.I am so glad that you enjoy my pictures. Makes me feel closer to your bunch, most of you people being relatively near to one another in the States and me so far away here in France. Gladys


----------



## Pisciottano

Hello Brad,
I'm afraid there has been some confusion with photos I recently sent to you, so that in resending a message which had gone astray I probably repeated one or two photos. Hope you will forgive my clumsiness.

As for my young pigeons leaving their nest, it seems thay are not sure what they want to do. This morning when I went up to them to clean their corner they got back into the nest and allowed me to lift them away inside the nest without any fuss.One could believe they WANTED to be lifted out that way!!! Don't worry, Brad, you don't have to answer this one. They did get out of the nest when I placed it on the floor but as soon as I finished cleaning they walked back to their corner. For the moment they don't venture far from it and now and then they go back inside the nest. They don't even leave their corner when the parents arrive to feed them, they wait quietly for the parent in question to go up to them. The little one I had last summer, at their age would run up TO and AFTER the visiting parent making very loud squeaky noises. For the moment, at least, I don't have to worry about them going near the edge of the balcony.

Thanks again for posting my photos and for "listening"


----------



## Lin Hansen

Pisciottano said:


> I'm not sure about the little birds on the photo "trimming my pies" but I can assure you that they are great at creating a real pandemonium on my balcony........scattering the seeds all over the place, tipping over the water bowl, etc.etc. *I have given up chasing them away so that now they are part of the "true" story I'm writing for my great grandchildren, illustrated by the photos covering the whole period from the laying of the first egg to, hopefully, the moment they will fly away.* I'm referring to the pigeons, of course. As for the sparrows, well, they will have to have their role in the story, won't they?


Gladys, the story you are writing for your great grandchildren is going to be wonderful....so much more meaningful and priceless, than any book they could buy in a store. Good luck with it. And thanks for your pictures and updates....I'm enjoying them and your posts very much.

Linda


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## Pisciottano

Linda, 
It's good to hear that you enjoy my posts, I always think I must be driving you all nuts with some of my questions. I must say I'm enjoying myself with everything happening on my balcony. My squabs are so much fun. They have left their nest three days ago but when I come to them in the morning to clean the corner where they spend most of the time, would you believe that these little rascals get back into the nest for me to lift them out of the corner as I used to do before they left their nest?? The first time I thought it was just a coincidence, bur today is the third time they have done this. I almost feel that they like me cleaning their "living quarters" and that they enjoy this kind of ^piggy backing" Well, that's enough nonsense for one day. Thanks for "listening". Gladys


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## mr squeaks

I, too have enjoyed your pictures and updates, Gladys!

Pigeons are smart birds, even young ones, as you can see! Actually, I think they are getting spoiled...enjoying a "trip" while their "quarters" are being cleaned. They don't have to do ANY cleanup! Bet the kids LOVE that! LOL  

Soon enough, they will be spreading their wings to fly away. Of course, who knows they may be baaaaack to start their OWN families!


----------



## Feather

Gladys,

My Greatgrandparents came from France. My G.G.M. was engaged to my G.G.F. at the time, and she came over with his family.

She said he told her there was a beautiful city here that they would live in.
When she arrived she said the walks were made of boards, and it was a vast ocean of dust. Being from Paris, she kept waiting for the family to move to the beautiful city that she was told about. One day she asked him when they were going there. She said that he told her that she had been living in it for almost 6 months. Bless her heart, she lived to be 103, and out of that dust she grew the most beautiful flower and vegitable gardens.

Her local paper did a special article on her every year after she reached 100 years old, and every year they mentioned how bright she was, her wonderful since of humer, and how she hardly had any wrinkles.

So you see, it is a small world, and we're almost family. Like I tell Victor, we are all Pigeon-In-Laws.

Feather


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys and all...More new pictures of the "balcony pigeons They are looking very good, Gladys...such cuties

Babies at 3 weeks old:









Getting out of the nest for the first time:


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## Pigeonpal2002

and a few more...

eating by themselves:









An intruder hoping to be invited:









Mom, chasing the intruder:


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## Skyeking

Hi Gladys,

Thank you for sharing the new pics of your "feathered" grand kids  , they are gorgeous. One looks like mom and the other like dad. 

Brad, thank you for posting them.


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## Maggie-NC

Gladys, I am so enjoying this thread and watching your babies grow. You are doing a great thing by writing their story for your great grandchildren. 

Feather, you're a chip off your great grandmother's block.


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## Feather

Gladys,

It has been so much fun watching these two grow.

Maggie,

Thank you for the compliment.


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## alvin

Hi Gladys.
Aren't they just sooo beautiful? and so much fun to watch too. I used to get endless hours of entertainment just watching the pijies be.....well pijies.

I'm very happy that you have some new little friends.


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## maryjane

They really are too cute. Thanks for sharing the pictures with us.


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## Pigeonpal2002

More new pictures from Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

and two more....


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## Skyeking

Thanks for sharing the pictures, Brad. You are doing such a great service, and it is appreciated for those of us who's babies have grown and are out of the nest. Both feather, and skin kids! LOL


Gladys, the babies are just too adorable. I guess that is dad in the first picture with beak open. Guess he is ready to regurgitate some more...or starting?

The young 'uns are at the age where I just love to grab them and hug them. Then when they get older, I don't get a chance, as they are proficient flyers.
I know you will miss them when they fly away, but I'm sure you won't miss the mess.


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## mr squeaks

Your babies have been well raised and are just beautiful! They look very healthy and happy.

While they will be flying on their own soon, don't be surprised if they come back to want to start a new nest of their own!

Happened with ASU's Peter Pied Piper and his kids. First there were no pigeons, then there were 2, then 4, then 6...well, you get the message... 

Unfortunately, if I were a pigeon, your balcony would sure be prime real estate! (Actually, as a human, I feel the same!!)


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## Pisciottano

*Should I let the babies love me?*

High every one,
In the story for my grand children (in the photo where dad has the beck open) dad is scolding the children for being naughty. They have upset the bowl of seeds (bad table manners),have been peeping into the forbidden area, went too close to the edge of the balcony......

Yes, the little ones are really adorable, not at all afraid of me, they let me put my hands on them and make the most enchanting little noises, squeaking away. My problem is that I'll be going away to Uruguay for 6 months in november and I realize that both parents and babies have grown too used to my balcony and easy food. The parents are still quite wild(they fly away when I come out on the balcony) but the babies are "semi domestic". It breaks my heart to discourage them but I realize I will have to start diminishing the seed rations to oblige them to find food and shelter away from me and that before winter arrives.

Brad, thanks so much for being so patient posting my photos. Hopefully the day will arrive when I'll know how to do this myself. For the moment I have had so many summer visitors I haven't been able to find the time to be shown by someone. Then I underwent a cataracte operation and I will have the other eye operated on the 29th august. 

Thanks again to you all for being so present in my "pigeon life", Gladys


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## Feather

Gladys, 

We thank you for being present in our lives. You have taken us to the most enchanting little corner with a stream and flower lined bridges, and allowed us to watch your babies grow.

In the pictures that you haved shared with us this morning I can see that there is quite a bit of instruction going on. The parents are getting their squabs ready to be adults. When you dedicate your book to your grandchildren, mention to them that we here at pigeon-life wish that their own transformation into adult hood is every-bit as instructed and loved. 

I hope your eye operation goes well.
Feather


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## Pigeonpal2002

New pics everyone of the 30 day old youngsters

Gladys, the babies are looking so grown up now and these pictures are really good It's good to see them exploring more on the balcony and even stepping inside the "forbidden territory"


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## Pigeonpal2002

more pics...


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## Pigeonpal2002

and the last two...


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## TAWhatley

Wonderful pictures, Gladys! I love the one of the three on the stool  

Terry


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## Feather

These are beautiful photos. They have gotten so big, and brave to say the least. Being in your company does not seem to bother them at all.

This has been a great thread. 

Thank You,
Feather


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## piney_creek

TAWhatley said:


> Wonderful pictures, Gladys! I love the one of the three on the stool
> 
> Terry



This IS the coolest pic....though I like them all

PINEY


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## mr squeaks

HI Gladys,

I, too, LOVE the "3 On A Stool!"

The babes are so happy and healthy looking! You have done such a tremendous job!

Best of everything regarding your surgery...

AND, have a wonderful stay in Urugray! 

Will you be coming back to the same apartment? If so, don't be surprised if you see a familiar beak or two!


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## Maggie-NC

Gladys, the pictures are so good and show how much your little babies are growing. Good luck with the eye surgery tomorrow. 

I hope you will continue to post - even when you winter in Uruguay - and let us know how you are doing.


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## Pisciottano

*SOS My grown babies won't leave me*

Hello everyone, Brad,Terry, Piney, Feather, Maggie

I must tell you how much I appreciate your mail in reply to my mostly uneventful postings when I know you have so much to worry about some other threads with little satisfaction for your efforts. Thanks also for your good wishes for my cataract operation which took place in a very nice clinic some 80 kms. from Epinal (where I live in France). Everything is fine, no problems. It's my second operation so that I was not at all worried but I'm glad we only have two eyes!! 

Now then, let's get to more serious business. Bully and Tiny, my big babies, have been flying away for short periods into the unknown world for the last five days but..........they keep coming back to the balcony where they stay most of the time. Sometimes they manage to get back inside their old nest as if looking for comfort and, of course, they come back every night to sleep in the corner where they were born, right against the balcony door. It seems to me that they have no intention to join their parents' flock, wherever it is. I wouldn't care so much if I were not going away for six months in november.The day after their first flight the two parents came over together so I took a pic of the four of them. But ever since only dad comes, to eat, but he refuses to feed the little ones who run after him begging to no avail. I've stopped the midday meal, to oblige them to look for their food but, even then, the little ones stay on the balcony and look through the glass door into the apartment as if wondering when I'm going to come out. They break my heart. What can I do? Any ideas?

I will be posting a few pics (through Brad's kindness) partly documenting the above, hopefully the last ones? Gladys


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

I'm happy to hear that your cataract surgery went well and with no complications. Another member of ours will be going for the same thing soon herself in October. Yes, thank heavens we only have two eyes!!! lol. 

Your new pictures are so wonderful, Bully and Tiny look so cute and very healthy! It's normal for the parents to start ignoring them now at this age and they will gradually leave them for good. The father will stop feeding them now too as you've noticed and this is to encourage them to start foraging on their own and to become totally independant. The babies must feel very safe and comfortable on your balcony and they are still a little young yet to fully take off for good and for places unknown. They also realize that they have a good supply of seed there for them and life is easy right now You should continue to feed them for now but gradually taper off and stop entirely by the time you have to go away. They might not continue to stick around but if they do, then you will need to wean them off the food supply so that they don't become too dependant on your offerings. We all want them to be successful in their lives and be able to make their way on their own.

Ok folks, here are the new pictures of the family


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## Pigeonpal2002

and two more...










Oh so cute how they are snuggling together again in their birth plant pot


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## Maggie-NC

Gladys, you're just going to have to put them in your pocket and take them with you to Uruguay.

Seriously, they are adorable and look so healthy. I'm hoping, with about 2 more months before you leave, that they will start venturing out on their own more.


----------



## Pisciottano

*Testing*

Trying again


----------



## Reti

Such pretty big babies. So cute.
I wish them tons of luck when they eventually will leave you.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking

Gladys,

Those youngsters are so adorable snuggling together like that, I could hug them both!  

Your pictures are just wonderful, they show alot of love, and I sense the endearing qualities these birds have brought to the pics.

Sending good wishes for mom, dad and their darling youngsters. Live, happy, healthy long lives! I would miss them, too.


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## Feather

What beautiful pictures for your book. Gadys I am glad that your surgery went well. We don't want to loose you on this forum. So even when you go to your winter home, if you are able please spend time with us.

Feather


----------



## Pisciottano

*Bully and Tiny's dad unexpected behaviour*

Hi everybody,
For some reason, all of a sudden, dad will not share his meals with my (his) babies. He wants the seed dish all to himself; when the youngsters approach to eat he aggresses them very nastily. Seeing the situation I stepped out on the balcony and brought the dish into the apartment with Bully and Tiny following me until I placed the food on the floor. Dad stayed outside walking up and down as a man whose wife is expecting her first baby. After a while he, who normally flies away in fright as I step out into the balcony, all of a suddden run towards us making (what I thought) very unfriendly noises. I clapped my hands very hard and he stepped back but I had to keep this clapping on and on to keep him "at bay" As for the little ones my clapping didn't bother them at all and continued eating non stop all the time this comedy went on. When they had finished eating I took the dish out for their dad. Their mum has not been around for the last 3 days at least.

For the evening meal we had the same situation as in the morning, clapping of hands included. I have stopped the midday meal to encourage the little ones to find food by themselves. At this moment, it is 9 pm here in France and the babies are sleeping in the usual corner leaning against eachother and against the balcony door. 

Now then, it has occurred to me that, perhaps, once the squabs have grown some kind of hierarchy is established and that I should mind my own business. This is presuming that once father had had his meal he would have let the children have access to the food. Can someone tell me if this situation is normal? I repeat that he aggressed the youngsters very nastily and repeatedly. It's such a sudden change when you think that only 4 days ago he was feeding them, the three of them standing on the stool!! 

Thanks again for "listening", Gladys


----------



## Skyeking

I think dad just wants the youngsters to be totally independent now, and find their own way. It is also possible he has interests somewhere else, a new nest and hatchlings.


----------



## Pisciottano

Thanks Treesa, but shouldn't HE start by giving the example? To judge by his ravenous appetite he makes no effort to find food for himself away from my balcony. That he doesn't want to feed them anymore, I understand, but not that he aggresses them so nastily when they want to eat from the dish like he does HIMSELF. What do you think? Gladys


----------



## alvin

Pisciottano said:


> Thanks Treesa, but shouldn't HE start by giving the example? To judge by his ravenous appetite he makes no effort to find food for himself away from my balcony. That he doesn't want to feed them anymore, I understand, but not that he aggresses them so nastily when they want to eat from the dish like he does HIMSELF. What do you think? Gladys


Now they have grown up enough, they are no longer his chicks, they are competiton for food. And he's teaching them to fend for themselves in a flock of pijies.


----------



## Skyeking

Hi Gladys,

I think he sees the youngsters as competition for the food now, as dad is obviously very hungry and has "new" mouths to feed.


----------



## Pisciottano

What happens then when people have a lot of pigeons, surely they don't have individual bowls for each bird, do they? Please forgive my insistance, I'm trying to understand. The little one born on my balcony last summer flew away when he was 36 days old and never came back. The parents (the same ones) fed him right up to the last day. Bully and Tiny are 38 days old today and they still sleep on my balcony and are still very trusting. Thanks for your patience. Gladys


----------



## Skyeking

Pisciottano said:


> What happens then when people have a lot of pigeons, surely they don't have individual bowls for each bird, do they? Please forgive my insistance, I'm trying to understand. The little one born on my balcony last summer flew away when he was 36 days old and never came back. The parents (the same ones) fed him right up to the last day. Bully and Tiny are 38 days old today and they still sleep on my balcony and are still very trusting. Thanks for your patience. Gladys



Did you put out seed for the youngster last year? 

I think Bully and Tiny are reluctant to leave because they know where their source of food is. 

When it is breeding season, the hens and males are paired up. Each couple gets a large nest box that accomodates two nest bowls. One for the first clutch the second for the next set of babies. I don't know if that answers your question, but that is how domestic pigeons hatch babies.


----------



## Pigeonpal2002

Pisciottano said:


> What happens then when people have a lot of pigeons, surely they don't have individual bowls for each bird, do they? Please forgive my insistance, I'm trying to understand. The little one born on my balcony last summer flew away when he was 36 days old and never came back. The parents (the same ones) fed him right up to the last day. Bully and Tiny are 38 days old today and they still sleep on my balcony *and are still very trusting*. Thanks for your patience. Gladys



Hi Gladys, 

I think Bully and Tiny are so trusting and tame too in part because you've been interacting with them quite a bit. They are used to seeing you and cleaning up around the balcony, moving their nest pot around too I don't think you interacted as much with the baby last year, did you?

Peope who have a lot of pigeons use cafeteria style feeding trays usually. These are long troughs that are covered and have bars. So each bird puts his head through the bars and they all feed side by side without too much squabbling


----------



## Pisciottano

Thanks Treesa but my problem is that Dad will aggresse the babies when they want to eat from the bowl of seeds.I was talking about the bowl of seeds not the bowl for nesting. My comments were referring to the difference in behaviour between the way dad acted last year taking care of the baby up to his 36TH day of life and the way he is aggressing Bully and Tiny when they are only 38 days old. I must run. Thanks again Gladys


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## Pisciottano

*We are finally getting somewhere........*

Hi Brad,
Yes, you are right. Last year I was afraid that if I made myself too present in the life of my feathered visitors the parents were going to abandon the baby. But after reading many of your threads I realized that I could let the little ones know me without causing them any harm. I think we have had some fun together. We still do. 

Now then, how am I going to solve the feeding problem? For the time being I'm letting the little ones eat INSIDE the apartment while I provide a separate dish on the balcony for grumpy dad. I've got a photo showing this but I'm not going to give my great grandchildren the right version. This works very well as long as I keep an eye on the whole operation as some of dad's attitudes can be alarming. Of course, this is no way to encourage the youngsters to leave. I feel quite guilty about it as I know they MUST. But what else can I do? Any suggestions?

Brad,thanks for explaining how pigeons are fed in big numbers without fighting for the food. Anyway, I suppose domestic and wild birds don't necessarily react in the same way, do they?

Best wishes and thank you, many thanks also to those replying to my distress signals. You are such a nice bunch of well intentioned and helpful people. Gladys


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

I think what you're doing to allow the babies to eat away from dad is fine and probably the only solution at the moment. Since the parents (dad) is still returning to your balcony to eat, he's going to compete with this children now and bully them. If I were you, I would slowly start to wean the pigeons/birds on your balcony off of the food. I know it sounds harsh and contradictory but Bully and Tiny especially need to learn to forage on their own. Have they left the balcony for any significant periods of time lately? You really don't want them to get too reliant on you and especially if you're going away for 6 months. 

Understand however that weaning them off the food would be a gradual process. Just start to reduce the amount of seed you put out in the bowl each day and how many times a day you feed them. They need to be hungry enough and encouraged to begin exploring beyond your balcony. I would suggest to take them indoors and become house pets, but you are not going to be there soon So, tough love will be needed in this situation too and to get these youngsters fully and completely capable of looking after themselves.

Pictures in next post...


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## Pigeonpal2002

Here are the latest pictures everyone. The youngsters are quite tame and trusting of Gladys and definitely know where their bread is buttered


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## mr squeaks

GREAT PICTURES!

Ah, yes, I think we can say that those babies are living the "life!"  

They look great and should be able to take care of themselves. Of course, then, again, why leave a great home???

Gradually decreasing their seeds is the way to go, Gladys...even tho I know that is going to be HARD!

Hope all works out!


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## TerriB

Gladys, you have really done a wonderful job taking care of this pigeon family! Good luck as you go through the weaning process. It's tough, but for the best for these young birds!


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## Pisciottano

*Weaning pains*

Hello everyone,
Following my weaning schedule (meaning to feed the youngsters only morning and evening) I have stopped the midday meal with the intention to let them wait until bed time. But in the middle of the afternoon they bacame so desperate throwing themselves against the balcony glass doors trying to come inside the apartment that I had to give in as I was afraid they would hurt themselves. Brad, I'm sending a couple of photos to show this. They are not pretty but show partly the situation. I say partly because you don't see all the sequence from the moment they look through the glass and push to go through to the moment the fly with all their might into the door. They won. I opened the door and let them in. They ate as if they hadn't done for a week, which shows that they hadn't been able or hadn't tried to find food whilst in the wild and yet they had been gone some five hours. Dad, who watched his children's antics without moving a feather stayed outside waiting for his due. As some of you, people, have said, weaning is a HARD job.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Pisciottano said:


> Hello everyone,
> Following my weaning schedule (meaning to feed the youngsters only morning and evening) I have stopped the midday meal with the intention to let them wait until bed time.* But in the middle of the afternoon they bacame so desperate throwing themselves against the balcony glass doors trying to come inside the apartment that I had to give in as I was afraid they would hurt themselves. Brad, I'm sending a couple of photos to show this. They are not pretty but show partly the situation. I say partly because you don't see all the sequence from the moment they look through the glass and push to go through to the moment the fly with all their might into the door. *They won. I opened the door and let them in. They ate as if they hadn't done for a week, which shows that they hadn't been able or hadn't tried to find food whilst in the wild and yet they had been gone some five hours. Dad, who watched his children's antics without moving a feather stayed outside waiting for his due. As some of you, people, have said, weaning is a HARD job.


Hi Gladys, 

Yes, this is not going to be easy on Tiny and Bully or yourself. The youngsters are really getting reliant on the seed you provide Animals will take the easy road in life under certain circumstances and if the option is there. Normally by now, they should be out integrating themselves into the flock that their parents belong to and learning where the food and water is by the other birds' example. The "problem" is now, they are semi tame pigeons, know that food is plenty and free on your balcony and don't want to follow their instincts.

I can fully picture what you're talking about and how the birds sit outside your glass doors looking so pitiful and hungry. Then thrashing and climbing up against the glass to get in and be fed. 

Pigeons can actually go without food for a good 3 or 4 days, even though they seemed starved when you skipped their mid-day meal, they really aren't...they are just spoiled and have become accustomed to the routine they're in.

Nope, weaning them off your seed supply isn't going to be easy at all but it's paramount that they do learn to venture out, become part of the flock and learn from them. Be strong and determined, Gladys...the welfare of these two is at stake here


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Gladys, 

I received a number of emails from you the other day, but unfortunately most of them were "invalid". I don't know if these were videos you were trying to send or not, but all I got was a series of computer code in the body of the message. I did however receive the pictures of Bully & Tiny trying to get inside your apartment Here they are:


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## TerriB

Yep, I think I'd fold, too, confronted by that intense behavior. Maybe close your drapes so you don't have to see their begging?


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## mr squeaks

Hi Gladys...

When you return to the States, will you be returning to the SAME apartment???


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## Pisciottano

Hi mrsqueaks,

I live in France not in the States. Yes, I will be returning to the same apartment.


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## mr squeaks

Oops, sorry about that! I guess the States WOULD be waaaay off course!  

The reason I asked is because Tiny and Bully _may_ still be around.

Will anyone be living in your apartment while you are gone? If so, are they pij friendly?

If the apartment is empty, who knows, you may come back to nests and MORE pijies on your balcony!


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## Pisciottano

Yes, a long way from you. The apartment will be empty but my char lady will continue to come once a week to get the mail in, water the plants (I have 30), keep the dust off, etc. She is a good person and she likes birds and animals but I clean the balcony myself as she is a bit clumsy, kind of rough when she moves around. As for finding a new nests when returning in May next year...........will have to wait and see, won't we? Not too many however, I hope, as it wouldn't do to attract the neighbours' attention to my balcony's feathered family.


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## Pisciottano

*trail*

This is a trail


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## Lin Hansen

Gladys,

Congratulations! 

You did it!!!

Linda


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## Pigeonpal2002

Yes, Gladys....CONGRATULATIONS on your first picture posting, we knew you'd figure it out Now if you want to do it again, just remember that the pictures have to be under 100kb here to post.


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## Pisciottano

*Updating*

Hi folks,

Bully and Tiny are 54 days old today. They have been sleeping away from the balcony for sometime now but they come every day at meal times, which I have reduced to morning and evening. They don't try to force their way into the apartment for their midday meal anymore. Mum comes very rarely and she will eat from the same dish as the youngsters without any problem. DAD comes regularly and continues to be his own aggressif self. At midday, although he doesn't get any food, he still "visits" and spends up to two hours waiting........... 

The word got around about the ***** restaurant at the balcony. I'm getting more and more visitors, some of them very beautiful, either completely black or white and brown. I think they are all from the flock Bully and Tiny have joined. DAD FIGHTS EVERYBOBY. You never saw such a squabbling. But I must put and end to all this as so much activity will end up being noticed by my neighbours. I'm planning to stop the evening meal first and later on the morning one. At least I hope I'll have the courage to do so. As you know they must stop relying on me for their food before I leave in november.

Bully and Tiny are a little less friendly now but they still come into the apartment to eat when dad chases them but they seem nervous and will run back to the balcony if I get too close. It is a little sad for me but I'm happy to see them developping as they should. I think that will be all for this time. Will let you know if any special events occur. Thanks for "listening", Gladys


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## Skyeking

Hi Gladys,

I'm glad the birds are adjusting to the weaning off of their feeding schedule. It is good that the babies are developing normally emotionally and integrating with the flock. It is sad that they are less friendly, but it is safer for them to be so in the future.

Thank you for looking out for their best interests, and doing what is right.

We appreciate your posts and do update us.


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## Lin Hansen

Gladys, it sounds like everything's going smoothly....you're doing a great job of helping these babies in gradually becoming independent. Yes, it's bittersweet.....you'll miss them, but you can feel good knowing that you played a big part in the beginning of their lives. Plus, you'll have your memories from the pictures and story you are writing.

Thanks for updating us.

Linda


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## TerriB

What a great job you are doing, Gladys! Seems like the two babies are developing a healthy wildness, which will help them to survive.

I wonder if it would be better to cut out the morning feed first? That leaves them the rest of the day to scout out places to fill their bellies. Cutting the evening feed could send them to sleep with no food to provide heat over night. Probably a toss up, either way.


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## Pisciottano

*Lost my "nesting in a plant pot " thread*

Dear all,
Two weeks before leaving for Montevideo I can finally say that Bully and Tiny are completely weaned. It has been heartbreaking. I did this gradually over a long period of time.Lately I had to draw the curtains so that they would not be to look into the appartment and then they would go and stand on the ledge of the kitchen window. I had managed to discourage all the other pigeons (about ten of them) but my "babies" would still come and wait and wait. I felt so mean They are now 3 months old and they still remain together. They look very well and healthy.

Will you believe that now that all is over one of my neighbours has reported me for feeding birds on my balcony?! I will not go into it as it is too sickening. I'm supposed to be guilty of "incivility". Can you imagine....at my age! What really bothers me is that if the parents come back next summer perhaps I won't be able to help them again. 

Many of you have gone through similar situations (though with more serious consequences) and I know you can understand my feelings . It comforts me to know you are "listening". Thank you for being there. Gladys


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## Skyeking

Hi Gladys,

It's so nice to hear from you.

I'm so sorry to hear that your neighbors have reported you, especially since you worked very hard getting the birds weaned and off your balcony. 

You did an excellent job of weaning the youngsters from the balcony (and not to soon), which protects them from dangers brought on by people, like your neighbors.

I will locate your earlier thread and attach your new post.


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## Maggie-NC

Hi Gladys, I'm glad to hear from you.

Maybe, by the time you get back to France, your neighbor will have forgotten, or better yet, moved.  

I hope you have a safe trip and, will you be able to stay in touch in Montevideo? I hope so!


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## Feefo

You did a good job there, Gladys. Have a good time in Montevideo.

Cynthia


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## Reti

I am glad the babies were weaned just on time and can now fend for themselves.
I can't believe those neighbors. Why aren't we ever lucky enough to have neighbors like the people on this forum.

Reti


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## Feather

Gladys,

It is really nice to hear from you. Your babies were weaned at just the right time. So sorry about your neighbors. I am fortunate not to have those kind of neighbors. Recently one of my neighbors passed away. He was only twelve years old. The father of the boy asked my husband if I would release my birds at the funeral of the young man. The cemetary that he was to be buried was about 15 miles away, so my husband told him that I would not release them. The guy told my husband "Well they are just birds, and I only want twelve". These people live behind me two houses over. That afternoon after the funeral the strangest thing happened. I let the birds out of their loft, and they flew over the house of the lost child and circled it over and over. Swish, swish, over and over. Then when they were tired they all lined up on the telephone wire directly over the house of the little boy. 

The reason I say this is strange behavior is because I have never seen them circle over that house ever. Usually they fly in a big cirlcle over my house. I have never seen them on that telephone wire either. The only time they ever land on a wire is when there has been a hawk in the area, and they will land on the wire across the street in front of my house. I let my birds out everyday, they go through the same routine everyday. I just found it strange that on this one particular day that they would not only change their behavior, but make a big gigantic show. There were eighty birds in the sky, three flocks joined together. I found it breath taking and it sent chills down my back. 

Oh well, I hope that the family and their guests took notice, that even though I refused to release my birds from a distance that would be hard for some of them to return, my birds took it upon themselves to make their presence very visual. I guess stranger things have happened. 

Good luck Gladys, I hope all works out with your neighbors.
Feather


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## Maggie-NC

Hi Sweet Feather - that story gave me goosebumps. I can't believe it was just coincidental but something we don't quite understand. I know you'll always remember this. 

I hope the parents saw them.


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## Feather

Maggie,

One of the reasons that I will let all of them out at once, is that they will never all take to the sky at once. Some will walk out of the lofts and get in their bath tubs, some will fly in the patio, and some will stay in the lofts. On any given day only a few will take to the sky. I use to open the lofts at different times, so I would not have all of those white birds flying at one time. Later, I found out that there is some sort of system where they take turns. 

NOT THIS DAY, MOST OF THEM TOOK TO THE SKY, AND THEY WOULD SWOOP VERY LOW. Maggie, I have been left to ponder the incident, especially because the following day and after all habitual behavior had resumed.


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## Lin Hansen

Feather,

That story sure is something!

It put me in mind of another story that was posted about a year ago before you joined. Don't know if you've ever seen the thread or not, but if you haven't, I think you'll enjoy reading it:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12379



Gladys,

You did a good job with the babies....know it must have been hard to deny them, even for their own good in the long run. Sorry about your neighbors. With you being away for quite awhile, hopefully, they'll have nothing to complain about.

Enjoy your time away....hope you will have access to come and visit us here at PT to let us know what you're up to.

Linda


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## Feather

Linda,

Thank you for the beautiful story! Does one dare let their mind slip into the how and why of it all. In both instances I keep asking myself "Why those houses?"


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## Victor

Feather~ It is always sad to hear of a child loosing their life but I can not blame you for not accepting the offer of the boys father. It is very interesting how your pigeons went "off route". 

Linda~ I missed that earlier post and it also was an eyebrow raiser.

Pigeons...they are more than what we believe them to be.


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