# Yet another clueless newbie with a sick pigeon (eyes)



## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

I found this site after some web searches for treating a sick pigeon, and I've got a story that you've all heard a million times before. I'll spare the story, but here are the details.

My wife and I picked a blind pigeon up off the street in Somerville, MA (just north of Boston). Both eyes were swollen shut, the bird was huddled in the street looking cold, yet was still able to fly (blind animals should NOT fly). We are suckers of unbelievable proportions, so we brought it home.

It looked like it was in pretty rough shape, so our only intent was to give it a warm place to die, expecting it to move on to the birdie place in the sky before we got a chance to actually care about it. That didn't work out, so we've got a sick blind pigeon on our hands.

Both eyes are swollen shut. One eye has what looks like a hardened drop of blood underneath it. I've read about other people describing similar symptoms, but I'm not sure what it actually is.

It's roughly an adult - it looks the same as any other city pigeon, I'd take pictures but it really just looks like any other wild pigeon. It's got a little bit of fight, like if I try to pick it up (to change its bedding), but otherwise just sits there, in a warm box on our kitchen counter, for hours on end without moving. It's been with us for a little over 48 hours. We've been keeping it hydrated with ornalyte, dripped into the side of its beak.

Yesterday, roughly 24 hours ago, it started doing something like looked like wiping its beak off on the bedding when I tried to feed it, so I put a dish of ornalyte solution where it was wiping, and it proceeded to suck down probably and ounce and a half of fluids, but hasn't tried anything like that since. We have continued to drip ornalyte into its beak, 1/2 ml at a time, having it occasionally turn away from it, but no bigger fight than that.

We assume it had some sort of infection to start with, and we're worried about it aspirating the ornalyte in the hands of unskilled caretakers, so after a short web search we decided that giving it cipro probably wasn't much worse than not giving it cipro, so I put about 20mg (the lower limit of our scale) in about an ounce of ornalyte and have fed the bird a couple CC's of the solution so far. Hopefully it will help, but it seems unlikely to hurt, given that the bird's at least half blind and probably half dead as well.

There used to be a clinic in Dorchester that wold take found birds, but it appears to have succumbed to the economy. Last year we had another bird rescue, and found that the pool of wildlife rehabbers in RI/MA/NH has gotten a lot smaller in recent years, and we had some really (astonishingly) appalling experiences with (otherwise good) vets telling us to "let the bird loose outside and let nature take its course", even though our money is as good as what comes with a $3 hamster.

We would love to find a pigeon aficionado in the Boston area that would be willing to take this bird off our hands, and we would be happy to contribute to its care. Failing that, we'd appreciate any advice about what's wrong (I'm pretty sure "blind pigeon, blood drop from one eye" tells most of the story), feeding, antibiotic dosage (all we have access to is the human stuff), etc. In the meantime I'll keep reading through the sticky posts and other fora here.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Hello and welcome to pigeon talk! You've come to the right place for help, thats for sure. I'm not very experienced with treating or diagnosing problems, but what would really help others that could help you is if you posted a picture or two of the bird + eyes. Most likely someone will recommend some medicines such as an anti-inflammatory that could help. Also what colour are the droppings? This might help to figure out any other problems the pigeon may have. 

As for what it should eat, provide some wild bird seeds and some water. I'm also pretty sure we have members on here in the Boston area so help should be on the way soon. Thanks once again to you and your wife for helping the little guy!


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

If You can post a clear picture of the bird and its droppings


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

sdymacz said:


> If You can post a clear picture of the bird and its droppings


Here are some pictures:


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

The left eye has the drop of blood. The right eye has been swollen shut, but was open a little bit this afternoon.

I've applied some people eyedrops probably 6 times - "1% econopred plus", 1% prednisone acetate, plus other inactive ingredients. The bird doesn't care at all if I put it in the right eye, but any contact with the left eye is a problem.

Again, I don't know that the eyedrops will help, but I'm pretty sure they won't hurt.


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

Dropping look like a salmonella 
but also looks like it has something else too

symptoms 
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php


one of many suppliers for medication
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/index.html


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

OMG that poor pigeon..
have u guys tried feeding him? any pet store will sell u surringes..u can soak cerious .. and force feed him.. in the case he cant see the food..
or pieces of bread. u can open his beak and feed it to him..
i dont see no harm in using te eye drops.. u can go and get some ointment for eyes in drug stores.. i used ointments on my hamster.. she looked like she was goin lind.. after ointment she was back to normal..
good luck and thank u so much for picking him up


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

Wow... I wish I had some advice  poor little guy!


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

What is it about the droppings that looks like salmonella?

I would love to force feed it, but I've never done it to a bird like this before, and I worry about hurting it. It's not taking liquids willingly today, so I suppose I've got little to lose.

We've done a bunch of baby bird rescues, but baby birds fight a lot less, and are better with the beak response. We also used to raise chickens (a flock of about 50, for eggs and as pets), but they're a lot more docile.

I haven't had any luck finding anyone local who raises pigeons and can offer some advice.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

If you wrap him in a towel to stop him struggling & being stressed, you can defrost some peas & corn & pop them one by one into his beak (towards the back) & he should swallow.
If he cant see the food or water, or know where it is, he wont eat or drink.
If you leave a small dish of water in his box, Try dipping his beak into it so he knows where it is & what it is.
Hopefully someone should be along soon who can help with the eye problem.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

I've also got cat food with an appropriate protein content and baby bird formula in the bird rescue kit.

So how do I get it to open its beak so I can get food in? I've tried prying with a dropper tip, but it won't have any of it. I've never done this to a grown bird, babies are a lot more cooperative.

It doesn't like having its beak dipped, it just shakes any liquid off. I've also tried holding a deep spoon of ornalyte up to its beak, but it pulls away and shakes the liquid off.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i would just use some cherious cerials.. every pet store sells surringes..
u can go get it.. soak cherious in water..put them in the surringe.. and open his beak and he will eat i guarantee... step by step u will have his belly full for the night...
dont dip his beak that dont work.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

goga82 said:


> i would just use some cherious cerials.. every pet store sells surringes..
> u can go get it.. soak cherious in water..put them in the surringe.. and open his beak and he will eat i guarantee... step by step u will have his belly full for the night...
> dont dip his beak that dont work.


Syringes are not a problem, we have plenty. The type of food is not a problem, we have all sorts. You say "open his beak" - have you ever done this? How? I can't pull the beak open with my fingers, it's too small. Sticking something pointy in and prying against a struggling bird doesn't seem like a good idea. Being gentle but forceful hasn't worked.

I tried calling some wildlife rehabbers today. I haven't had any calls returned yet. I called about half a dozen vets, they all said (1) they don't ever treat wild animals, (2) I should look online for wildlife rehabbers but they could not offer any suggestions, and (3) it was not possible for me to talk to a vet or anyone else. It was like they were all reading from the same script.

Maybe I should have tried telling them it's one of my purebread rock dove flock.


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

Droppings
Salmonellosis (Paratyphus) formation and color of droppings, Diarrhoea, greenish 

http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/treatment-plan/digestivetract-salmonellosis.php


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you for caring for this little one.
But first off...DO NOT use eye drops with a steroid in them (pred). If that is an injury (which it looks like it to me), the steroid will make it worse. Any other eye drops or eye ointments would be ok, as long as there's no steroid in it.
From the pictures, it almost looks like he got grabbed by something on the head.
I would keep him warm, quiet, give some antibiotics, eye ointment if you have it, but if not, just putting a warm/wet compress will help.....as long as he's on some type of antibiotic.
The poops look like starvation to me. I would do as Quazar suggested, especially if you don't know how to crop feed.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

duckophile said:


> Syringes are not a problem, we have plenty. The type of food is not a problem, we have all sorts. You say "open his beak" - have you ever done this? How? I can't pull the beak open with my fingers, it's too small. Sticking something pointy in and prying against a struggling bird doesn't seem like a good idea. Being gentle but forceful hasn't worked.
> 
> I tried calling some wildlife rehabbers today. I haven't had any calls returned yet. I called about half a dozen vets, they all said (1) they don't ever treat wild animals, (2) I should look online for wildlife rehabbers but they could not offer any suggestions, and (3) it was not possible for me to talk to a vet or anyone else. It was like they were all reading from the same script.
> 
> Maybe I should have tried telling them it's one of my purebread rock dove flock.


I know exactly how you feel........that's typical around here 
I'm sending a message to Altgirl (member here), she is a rehabber in Gloucester.
In the meantime, if you wrap him in a towel (like a burrito) with his head sticking out, you can feed him that way without struggling. Take your left hand and rest it on where his shoulders are.....take your index finger and thumb to gently grasp and stabilize the top beak........using your fingernail on your right ring finger to lower his bottom beak open (have a pea between your right index finger and thumb)....pop the pea in his mouth. Repeat about 15-20 times


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

duckophile said:


> Syringes are not a problem, we have plenty. The type of food is not a problem, we have all sorts. You say "open his beak" - have you ever done this? How? I can't pull the beak open with my fingers, it's too small. Sticking something pointy in and prying against a struggling bird doesn't seem like a good idea. Being gentle but forceful hasn't worked.
> 
> I tried calling some wildlife rehabbers today. I haven't had any calls returned yet. I called about half a dozen vets, they all said (1) they don't ever treat wild animals, (2) I should look online for wildlife rehabbers but they could not offer any suggestions, and (3) it was not possible for me to talk to a vet or anyone else. It was like they were all reading from the same script.
> 
> Maybe I should have tried telling them it's one of my purebread rock dove flock.


lol, only time i get a feral pigeon to the vet that dont treat wild birds or animals.. i say im his owner and yes i will pay for it all.. thats all they wanna know..

and as far as feeding.. u dont really have to stick the surringe down his throat..just at the tip the beak.. when u hold the beak with your two fingers that kinda prevent the food going al over.. i would start by giving him small amouts. let him swallow..then do it all over again..
u can see a lot of videos on youtube.. surringe feedig a pigeon..
is he doing any better today??
any changes to his behavior


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Have u tried new England wildlife center in Weymouth?
One thing to consider is if he cannot be made well enough to be released he will be humanly euthanized
I'm not rehabing right now sOrry to say, long story, losing my house
He needs to be force fed or he will die
Even just peas and corn, something
He needs serious antibiotics, if he was with me I would get him on Baytril plus flagyl
Waynette us right about the eye drops no steriods


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for the advice. The bird should have been dead within a few hours after we found it in the street three days ago, it hasn't had any solid food since, and it's been fighting liquids, so it's pretty obvious that we've got nothing to lose.

We wrapped it up (chicken burrito), pried its beak open, and squirted a mush of Nutri-Start, dry cat food, Ornalyte, and Cipro down its throat (we didn't have peas or CheeriO's on hand). We only gave it maybe 4 CC's, but we'll try for a lot more in the morning. I'll see what I can do about better antibiotics, we're working with what we have leftover in the freezer right now.

It has blood drops out of one eye socket and the other eye doesn't open - we don't have any expectations of it ever being well enough to release, and we are not interested in having it euthanized unless it's obvious that that's the best choice for the animal, which is a decision we take way too seriously for a freaking roof rat. We don't actually want a pet pigeon, let alone a blind one, but we've had pets before that we didn't want but made us happy, as well as plenty that we didn't want that made us sad, so we'll take our chances with this one too.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> Have u tried new England wildlife center in Weymouth?
> One thing to consider is if he cannot be made well enough to be released he will be humanly euthanized
> I'm not rehabing right now sOrry to say, long story, losing my house
> He needs to be force fed or he will die
> ...


Thank you so much for responding.......I'm soooo sorry to hear that things aren't going well. Please stick around and keep us posted! Do you have a place to go? Sure hope things work out for you!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

duckophile said:


> Thanks to everyone for the advice. The bird should have been dead within a few hours after we found it in the street three days ago, it hasn't had any solid food since, and it's been fighting liquids, so it's pretty obvious that we've got nothing to lose.
> 
> We wrapped it up (chicken burrito), pried its beak open, and squirted a mush of Nutri-Start, dry cat food, Ornalyte, and Cipro down its throat (we didn't have peas or CheeriO's on hand). We only gave it maybe 4 CC's, but we'll try for a lot more in the morning. I'll see what I can do about better antibiotics, we're working with what we have leftover in the freezer right now.
> 
> It has blood drops out of one eye socket and the other eye doesn't open - we don't have any expectations of it ever being well enough to release, and we are not interested in having it euthanized unless it's obvious that that's the best choice for the animal, which is a decision we take way too seriously for a *freaking roof rat*. We don't actually want a pet pigeon, let alone a blind one, but we've had pets before that we didn't want but made us happy, as well as plenty that we didn't want that made us sad, so we'll take our chances with this one too.


 Oh NO! If you've never had a pet pigeon....your in for a real treat! I commend you for trying and please don't give up on him. Many of us here have disabled pigeons, and they do just fine.
You stated yesterday that one eye started to partially open.....I'm hoping there is an uninjured eye under the swelling.
I've never used cipro, so not sure of the dose for that. I agree with Altgirl on Baytril (dose would be 10mg divided daily) and Flagyl (metronidazole) (dose-50-100mg once a day) I use 250mg tablets and give them 1/4 (62.5mg) If you don't have metronidazole, you can find it in pet stores that carry fish supplies. Come under different names, one being 'fish zole'. Just check the ingredient....you want pure metronidazole.
Did he swallow any of the food? It would be easier for you to use peas and corn. Get frozen, soak in warm water to defrost, then pop them down. 
Please keep us posted 
I would also keep him on a heating pad covered with a towel and set on low.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Call, if your willing to take care of him I will get you started and give you a tube lesson and take a look at him
I'm in Gloucester 978-325-2501


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Only thing I don't have is extra eye meds, my vet may be able to check him out and we can get some from him
Yeah waynette we don't know where we are going yet, everything is complicated 
Been rehoming a lot of my animals, I'll start another thread maybe and try to explain everything later


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Be very careful squirting anything into his mouth, birds aspirate very easily
If u look into his mouth u will see a little hole in the back of his tongue 
That is where he breaths, anything fluids or mush you should try to get past that
Peas and corn are much safer until I teach u to tube
Tubing Pijis is really really easy to learn
Easier than any other animal in my book


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

OMG...the poor thing. Would you consider taking the bird for treatment at Angel memorial hospital? They have avian vets. Yes it is costly but....


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> Oh NO! If you've never had a pet pigeon....your in for a real treat! I commend you for trying and please don't give up on him. Many of us here have disabled pigeons, and they do just fine.
> You stated yesterday that one eye started to partially open.....I'm hoping there is an uninjured eye under the swelling.
> I've never used cipro, so not sure of the dose for that. I agree with Altgirl on Baytril (dose would be 10mg divided daily) and Flagyl (metronidazole) (dose-50-100mg once a day) I use 250mg tablets and give them 1/4 (62.5mg) If you don't have metronidazole, you can find it in pet stores that carry fish supplies. Come under different names, one being 'fish zole'. Just check the ingredient....you want pure metronidazole.
> Did he swallow any of the food? It would be easier for you to use peas and corn. Get frozen, soak in warm water to defrost, then pop them down.
> ...


Sorry for the "roof rat" comment, that was not meant to be a criticism of the breed. We've never met a bird that we didn't like (except the hawks that were eating our chickens), but a bit of black humor is the only way we can handle animals that we assume are going to die anyway. Sometimes it seems like they hang on just long enough for us to get attached and then die.

The dosages you're quoting for the antibiotics are a lot larger than I've been using, I've been trying to scale for bodyweight, which puts the dosage well under 1/100th of a human dose. I'll get some Flagyl and Baytril tomorrow. I went with the Cipro because it seems similar to Baytril and I read about it being used to treat salmonella in humans.

The feeding breakthrough came when my wife took over the beak duty - she's done it a lot more than I have and is more convincing. He has taken about a (fluid) ounce of food so far. I'm not sure how much is appropriate, but I do know that "eating like a bird" does not actually describe a dainty eater, so we'll try to ramp it up.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

altgirl35 said:


> Call, if your willing to take care of him I will get you started and give you a tube lesson and take a look at him
> I'm in Gloucester 978-325-2501


We would love a quick lesson. I will call you tomorrow.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

pirab buk said:


> OMG...the poor thing. Would you consider taking the bird for treatment at Angel memorial hospital? They have avian vets. Yes it is costly but....


I haven't tried Angell for this bird, but we did with the last one (an American Robin) and they had nothing to offer us. Maybe pigeons are different, since people do keep them as pets, but we've never found a vet that would even talk to us about a wild animal, and we've tried.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Pigeons are different than the wilds and the federal protection and rules do not apply to them because they are a non native species
Same goes for starlings and english sparrows
Get to know How his crop feels as you are feeding him
They can take a lot, then feed him again when it empties or is nearly empty
It should feel like a marshmallow When he is full

I can weigh him and we can get a exact dosage for the meds when you come up


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

duckophile said:


> Sorry for the "roof rat" comment, that was not meant to be a criticism of the breed. We've never met a bird that we didn't like (except the hawks that were eating our chickens), but a bit of black humor is the only way we can handle animals that we assume are going to die anyway. Sometimes it seems like they hang on just long enough for us to get attached and then die.
> 
> The dosages you're quoting for the antibiotics are a lot larger than I've been using, I've been trying to scale for bodyweight, which puts the dosage well under 1/100th of a human dose. I'll get some Flagyl and Baytril tomorrow. I went with the Cipro because it seems similar to Baytril and I read about it being used to treat salmonella in humans.
> 
> ...


I understand about the dark humor  I'm glad to see he's still hanging in there.....And glad to see your wife got some food into him. Cipro might be fine, I've just never used it, so check with Jody (altgirl). She will fix you right up ........And thank you Jody  I would have taken him except my isolation room (inside) is full from some late racer rescues from the wildlife center and a couple of hand raised babies waiting for spring to go out in the loft.....and I brought my doves inside for the winter, none have been weathered 
Please keep me posted


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

They brought poor sad piji up last night
I believe (and hope) he has eyes in there
He is extremely emaciated, bright green starvation droppings
No muscle at all on his keel, weighs 183 grams
This bird has been down a long time
Showed them how to tube with a feeding needle and gave them one
They are going to start him with watered down formula and work up to full stength over a week or two depending on how he improves
Gave them some opt eye drops, Baytril, and flagyl
Told them to warm compress his eyes once a day
Gave em a dewormer but said not to give it to him until he is stronger
This poor bird is very close to deaths door, pray for him 
Oh and and top of it all poor guy has hair wrapped around his toes
It's was really nice meeting you guys, and thank you for bringing the flying squirrels to Lisa for me, she said that her 2 babies came down to say hi to you! 
Arnt they the cutest things in the world!!


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks so much for the help, meds, and tools, Jody! It's so much easier (on us and the burrito) with the needle than with dozens of those little droppers of mush we'd been giving him.

The little chicken is perkier already - he's been putting up more of a fight at the feedings.

Feel free to call any time you need flying squirrel transport, we almost tried to abscond with a couple!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

glad to hear he's perking up
Love the flyers, so adorable


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you so much for the update.....I was wondering about him. I'll say a prayer for the little guy. Obviously he's a fighter .......I hope 
Flying squirrels?!!!!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Yep! Flying squirrels!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> Yep! Flying squirrels!!


awww...too cute.
Did I tell you Walter is a dad?!! Just one survived......He was too big to sit on them  the biggest one survived and he was a GREAT dad! Looks just like him  And he's up to almost 5 lbs!!!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

wow 5LBS what a fat ***, lol he's so handsome!


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

How Did He Get So Big!!!???


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> wow 5LBS what a fat ***, lol he's so handsome!


I know.....I love him!!!!! He's such a gentle giant...Although I can't hold him with my 2 hands.....I have to hug him against me to do anything with him  He's just so easy going and walks around the loft like he's a king! Nobody bothers him, they step out of his way when he passes  God forbid you go near his lady!!!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

November-X-Scourge said:


> How Did He Get So Big!!!???


He was brought to Altgirl as a stray, and I adopted him from her. We thought he was a 'King Pigeon', but it turns out he looks like a Carneau. His neck and head is huge! He can fly though.....LOL And when he cooooos, you can hear it around the neighborhood....very deep voice, he moves like in 'slow motion', he's great


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

altgirl35 said:


> Yep! Flying squirrels!!


Lisa pulled one off the (plywood) roof of the pen like a velcro ball and handed it to me.
It sat it my hand and buzzed at 60 hz, very soft, warm, and seemingly happy.
I wish I could order these things like sushi...

[ ] Flying Squirrel
[ ] Button Quail
[ ] Pigeon
[ ] Cedar Waxwing
[ ] Woodchuck
[ ] Skunk
[ ] Opossum
[ ] Wood duck
[ ] Rabbit
[ ] Special Order - Please Specify _____________________


Our little Chicken Burrito has had 90cc of (watery) Exact mush today, along with 0.20cc Flagyl, 0.03cc Baytril, and some eyedrops, all courtesy of altgirl35. He's had his nether regions washed, plus even more hair removed from his feet (someone else's, not his own), plus some bacitracin and lidocaine applied where the hair came off.

We have one more feeding planned tonight, but his crop hasn't been emptying fast enough to stuff any more in. He (they're all "he" until they lay an egg, aren't they?) is awake and alert, on the verge of annoyed (do we have a teenager pigeon?) for the first time since we brought him home.

We're not out of the woods yet, but a bird that's annoyed at being kept in a box and hand fed is a lot better than a bird that doesn't care!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Absolutely! Is he opening his eyes at all yet?
Glad the tubing is goin well hopefully the meds will kick in a few days 
And he will feel even better
Ps. My rehab buddies can fill that order on almost any given summers day, 
Lol
Even the button quail, the guy I told u about that helps me with the ducks always has them, they are his favorite


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

duckophile said:


> Lisa pulled one off the (plywood) roof of the pen like a velcro ball and handed it to me.
> It sat it my hand and buzzed at 60 hz, very soft, warm, and seemingly happy.
> I wish I could order these things like sushi...
> 
> ...


LOL...I love the way you tell a story  Your ultimate goal should be a 'Wing Slap'


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Right waynette , y


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

When they break out the wing foo you know they are feeling better


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

He has been opening his eyes, at least a little bit. There was a bit of blood from one yesterday, but he does seem to respond to light somewhat.

How much would you expect him to eat at a time, or per day? We tried to judge by his crop, but apparently 40cc of mush was too much for breakfast and he spit a bit of it back up.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I would go with 30cc at least 3 times a day more is he digests it faster cause it's watered down


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

We just did another crop feeding. We tried for 20cc, but he got distressed and blorped up some mush after about 15cc.

I guess we don't have a good enough idea of what a crop should feel like, and I think the food is not going through as fast as we'd like.

I'd like to say his poops look more normal, but I've never closely examined pigeon crap before, so I can't really say. More solid and less green anyway.

And, to give credit where credit is due, when I say "we", that mostly means Robin (the wife, not the bird), with me assisting.

(add Willow Ptarmigan to the sushi menu)


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Not to contradict Altgirl, but if he's really emaciated I wouldn't give him too much too fast. It's easier to judge a babies crop than an adult. I would cut it down to 24mls twice a day, for a day or 2 and see if that stops the regurgitation. The you can slowly increase it again. You can also add a small amount of apple sauce to the formula to help things move along.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

S'ok I wanted it that much for the fluids
Really watered down formula so a little nutrition in a lot of water
To help get him good and hydrated, get those organs plumped up and functioning well
So he will be able to handle more food
Called him last night, told him to water it down a little more
He took 30 no problem here with room to spare worries me if his crop isn't emptying when formula is mostly water


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> S'ok I wanted it that much for the fluids
> Really watered down formula so a little nutrition in a lot of water
> To help get him good and hydrated, get those organs plumped up and functioning well
> So he will be able to handle more food
> ...


Good to hear that


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Waynettes suggestion of adding the applesauce is a good idea. That often helps.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

just talked to them a little while ago, piji is up to 225! woot woot! so he is gaining a little weight, good sign


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

15cc about every two hours seems to be working well. It'd be nice to have fewer feedings, but being conservative seems to be safer.

I think we're starting to get a feel for his crop as well.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Great news!


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

We're still keeping the chicken burrito in a box, with the top partially covering the opening. We tried a cat carrier, but he didn't seem to like it.

Can anyone speculate on whether the bird would prefer a cage that would allow him to get more light, or would seeing people moving around make him nervous? He seems to be responding to sights and sounds more, but I don't know if he'd prefer to not see the things he can hear. I guess he will have to get somewhat socialized at some point, but I don't want to traumatize him any more than necessary.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I think they need light for vit d to help absorb calcium and well being
I would do the kennel, with tw front facing the window
Then you can take a blanket and cover the other 3 sides to help hold the heat in and reduce his stress


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The rays he needs for Vit D won't pass through the window glass, but just being able to get some sunshine would probably feel good to him. But it would be good if you can cover part of the side facing the window so he can get out of the sun if he wants to. Glad he's gaining.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

We were able to get just under 70cc of food in today. He spit up a little bit twice. We put some apple sauce, and a tiny bit of yogurt, in the last feeding. 

He either hasn't found, or isn't interested in, the food and water in his cage.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Mbe go to 15cc every 3-4 hours, give the crop a little more time to empty


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

225 grams this morning, same as yesterday.

20cc of mush for breakfast.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Are you giving the food very slowly, as expressing the plunger to quickly can make the food come back up. You probably already know that, but had to ask.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Are you giving the food very slowly, as expressing the plunger to quickly can make the food come back up. You probably already know that, but had to ask.


Very slowly. We want to make sure we can see him start to object before he starts to burp the food up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Then maybe just smaller amounts more often. And when the crop has emptied.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

We added some brewers yeast to the mush today for extra vitamin D. 80cc of mush so far today.

He bled from one eye again a little bit today, and there's a little dried drop over the eye now.

The other eye is occasionally open, but shining a flashlight in gets no reaction at all.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Give me a call tmrw, mbe we can get him into my vet to take a look at those eyes
It's weird that he is oozing blood


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## Andrew Walsh loft (Dec 10, 2011)

thats dry poks its probably in his mouth to and if im right thats why he keeps fighting you when you touch his beak id get some cancer medicen and try it i am pretty sure thats what it is


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrew Walsh loft said:


> thats dry poks its probably in his mouth to and if im right thats why he keeps fighting you when you touch his beak id get some cancer medicen and try it i am pretty sure thats what it is


Don't think it's pox, but canker med isn't going to do anything for pox anyway.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

We took him in doc took a culture from his eye and a small bump he felt on his neck
Nothing to help with a cause, but eyes are inflamed and infected inside
We added meloxicam for inflammation to the flagyl and Baytril 
Plus reglan to see if that mobilizes his digestion 
Said if they don't see improvement in a couple of days gonna switch to sulpha/trim and drop the Baytril
He does look better, not a lot, but defiantly stronger and swelling has gone down around his eyes 
Told her to thicken up the formula just a little


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't think it's pox either


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

And poops are much better, formed, look good


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update Jodi. Glad there's some good news.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks Jodie, glad there's some improvement


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for all the help yesterday, Jody!

The birds up 10g, to 235, at this morning's weighing.

35cc of food so far today. The little bugger was easier to handle when he was sicker.

Do birds locate food only by sight, or will they find it by smell too? He's had a cup of pigeon chow and a cup of water at beak height for two days now, and hasn't touched either.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Not sure how well they can smell, most birds don't have much of a sense if smell at all
Birds like vultures have a great one though
He probably doesn't feel well enough to eat yet even if he knows its there


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

140cc of mush today, and he kept it all down.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

WOW! that's alot!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

That is, lol
U prob don't need to give him more than that a day
So the reglan is d


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Oops, stupid phone sent it before I was done
Anyways.
So the reglan is doin it's job?
His crop is emptying in between feedings?
I would thicken up formula just a little more tmrw


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I have been following this from the start, nice save on this bird. A new pic would be nice.
Dave


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

265 grams this morning! His crop is emptying between feedings.

Judging by the near-ballistic pooping, I'd say the reglan is working.

Should we thicken the formula, even though he's not drinking on his own?

I'll take a new picture. He looks a lot happier now (not bleeding from the eyes always helps one look happier).


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Yea thicken it a little, still plenty of fluid in it
265 is awesome, is he acting like he is feeling better?


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes, he's definitely acting like he's feeling better. He's a lot feistier, he's been preening, and doesn't look like he's got a miserable hangover anymore.

He might also be deaf, but he might just be ignoring us.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Robin's started shooting the meds into the food syringe with an insulin syringe, so the meds are the first thing to go in with the food. That works a lot better than trying to do multiple squirts of different meds and foods.

He seems a lot calmer and less tense after the Metacam doses (0.02 ml BID). Would it make sense to increase the dosage frequency and decrease the dose, or could we increase the frequency and keep the dose the same? I'm starting to get the feeling that this bird's liver and kidneys aren't going to be the limiting factor to its lifespan, but we'll be really unhappy if we progress from a blind, deaf, tube fed pigeon to a blind, deaf, tube fed pigeon on dialysis and an organ donor waiting list.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry, the Metacam dosage was 0.05ml BID.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

No can't give him more, we may be able to up it slightly because of the weight gain
Call me in the morning after you weigh him (empty crop)
And I can do the math n see if any of the dosages should be changed 
Don't give up yet, and don't assume he won't recover enough to have a nice life with you
if you need a break in a week, after mamacita goes home I'll take him for a little while if you want
Hes fighting to live and you guys are doin awesome with him, he's survived this long for a reason


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Wow..so far so good...
May ask who the vet is that is treating the pigeon with his bad eye?
Did the vet say anything about the eye?


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

yes, dr cahill at seaport vet, i love him so much, he's helped me so much with the wildlife
it's a wait n see on the eyes, very inflamed and infected on the inside


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

I took a bunch of pictures, but most were really unflattering and made his eyes look bloated and empty, or made the tiny little bits of food on his beak look like crusty cankers. Here's the best I got. This was right after a feeding, and he cuddled on me for a little while.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Been following this thread. Great job and love your sense of humor. She/he is looking 1000 times better!


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

I didn't get to meet Dr. Cahill, but Robin says she's never met a better vet.

Our little Burrito has started honking like a goose (when bugged). A very apprehensive and quiet goose, but it's a pretty bizarre noise to come out of a pigeon.

His eyes are looking better, there is an iris visible in one eye now, but there's still no light response. I'm pretty sure he can't see or hear us coming, which I can imagine is unnerving. I try to scratch the cage a little bit to get his attention before I touch him, but he still has a wild animal response (I'm violating Bird Space!). I tried letting him wander around loose on the floor last night and he seemed uncomfortable with it - I guess the cage is soft and has obviously close sides, which would make me feel better if I was afraid of predators.

We're in no danger of giving up on him, we're Champions of Lost Causes, and this Fine Feathered Friend is definitely one of those. We're pretty sure he's not going to fatten up enough for Christmas dinner, so we're assuming he'll be with us at least until next thanksgiving.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Lol, have robin call me in the morning with his morning weight so we can adjust his meds


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes, this pigeon does look better!
Dr Cahill? Is he/she located in Gloucester?
I go to Ipswich (angel memorial vet visits there once a week)


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

He/she looks ALOT better..........WONDERFUL JOB YOU GUYS!!!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> Yes, this pigeon does look better!
> Dr Cahill? Is he/she located in Gloucester?
> I go to Ipswich (angel memorial vet visits there once a week)


Yep he's in Gloucester


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

280 grams this morning! That's 100 grams more pigeon.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Nice job that bird looks a lot better.
Dave


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

forgot to mention to you yesterday you can drop the flagyl after 10 days
were you able to get eye ointment from laurie?


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

altgirl35 said:


> were you able to get eye ointment from laurie?


No. It was the drops we needed, or does the same stuff come in an ointment as well? You wrote "neo/poly/gram ophth" on what you gave us. Laurie sent us to a clinic, but when Robin got there it turned out that they didn't have any.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

duckophile said:


> No. It was the drops we needed, or does the same stuff come in an ointment as well? You wrote "neo/poly/gram ophth" on what you gave us. Laurie sent us to a clinic, but when Robin got there it turned out that they didn't have any.


I believe that comes in an ointment also.
You guys are awesome!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

you can use the ointment, i got those drops from a human pharmacy for a nuthatch i had, ointment will have to do


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi Jodi,

You said we could stop one of the antibiotics, which one was it?
I'm hoping it's the Flagyl, since we're almost out.

We started the deworming last night. He barfed up a bit of food, but is otherwise doing pretty well.
I'm pretty sure he can hear a little bit, and, oddly, his beak now closes straight. He puts up more of a fight at every feeding, but there's still no sign of eating or drinking on his own.

315 grams this morning. That's over a quarter pound more than we scooped up off the sidewalk.


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

That's a great pic!!! So adorable!! Looks waaayaayyyyyaya better than before!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes the flagyl can be stopped


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Don't give up. So far so good.


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## duckophile (Dec 6, 2011)

I would like to profusely thank everyone here for the help and encouragement with our rescued pigeon.

Unfortunately, after four weeks, he had showed many signs of improved physical health but no signs of ever having any quality of life. He doubled in weight, but did not regain any sight or hearing, and never made any attempt to eat or drink on his own. He stood wherever we put him and rarely moved. The only real sign of life was a fear reaction when he was touched.

Last Friday we had him put down.

After the infections cleared up it became clear that he was missing one eye. His head was a bit lopsided, seeming to droop around the missing eye, and he listed to one side. He occasionally preened, but that was the only pigeon behavior we saw. We tried things like putting him in a sink with 1/2" of warm water and holding food and water up to his beak, but he didn't attempt to eat or drink. A few times we tried setting him on the floor to see if he'd explore, but he just stood there. I don't know if it was neurological damage or just that he'd given up, but it seemed pretty clear that his time was up.

A friend's 8 and 11 year old children watched a feeding on Christmas day, after which they asked if they could pet him. I explained that, as a wild animal, the only time he ever got touched was when something was about to eat him, so petting him wasn't a good idea. When the kids were leaving that evening, the 11 year old wished me luck with the pigeon. I said something about hoping that the bird was better off now than if we'd left it in the street, and he replied glumly "yeah, being scared to death three times a day". Having an 11 year old state it that obviously really helped drive it home.

So thanks to everyone, triply so to Jody (Jodi? Jodie?). She has been more attentive and supportive than any vet (or doctor) I've run across.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Sorry to hear that but you guys did everything and did great with that bird!! You made the right choice. There are plenty of others out there that need help....maybe in the future.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm so sorry to hear this  You did your very best trying to give him a life and need to be commended for that


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

you guys did great and gave him more than long enough to show you if he wanted to live, i think the poor guy had given up on life
i wish we knew more about his story and how he ended up in the condition he was in 
rest in peace poor sad piji, may you come back as big strong fish eating eagle!


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I remember something a good friend said to me, "when you take in a life you have to take both the good and the bad. The bad meaning sometimes you have to make those hard choices (like putting your pet to sleep)" Unfortunately, not everything has a "disney" ending."
It appeared from what you wrote that perhaps this poor bird had brain damage.
You did all you could.


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