# Baby Pigeon Found - urgently need advice!



## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi:

I have a baby pigeon - about 10-13 days old - 14 maximum. I am in Daly City (San Francisco), CA

I got some advice from pet store - and, am reading online info - have tried to feed him but he tries to clam up.

I need some pics or something to know that I'm doing the right thing. I've never cared for a bird before. Any help much appreciated.


This is the tube I bought and an eydropper I have (next to a quarter)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0200.jpg



This is the baby

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0202.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0204-1.jpg


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What are you trying to feed him?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here are some links on feeding nestlings:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9918

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16235

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, baby pigeons don't "gape" (open their mouths up wide to be fed like most other birds do) because they're feeding method with their parents is kinda' different: they stick their beaks inside their parents' beaks and eat semi-regurgitated food from there. As such, they tend to "clam up" for us until they get used to us and even then you have to use some kind of method like is illustrated in the links above. They can be fed the hard way by opening up their beaks for every pea, corn kernel or other pelletized piece of feed that you give them but that is really time-consuming. 

Pidgey


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

I am feeding him "EXACT" (KAYTEE seems to be brand name) Hand Feeding Formula for all baby birds


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Here's a video of me feeding two babies that I am in the process of raising. I do it the hard way. I terrified of sticking a tube down their throat and I've tried the other method and it just made a big mess, for me anyway. This is a little time consuming but your baby is old enough that you won't have to do it very many more days. My two babies are 18 days old today. One was very very tiny and way behind the other. The bigger baby has been self feeding totally since yesterday and drinking water for two days. The younger one started eating seeds today and also drinking, so at 18 days old, I'm through with the Exact. They are young so you have to "remind' them to eat and then you have to guide them to the water and "remind" them to drink, but they will do it and it will make your life much easier.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you Pidgey & Lovebirds - I am going to try some of the methods. I will update you on my progress.


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I just want to wish you the best with the baby!


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*Another question*

How much should I be feeding this little guy? I think I just got down about 4 cc's.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I actually don't really pay attention to how much I feed. I just give them food until their crop is full. I think that the "correct" amount is about 10% of their body weight. I would think that 4 cc's isn't quite enough. Probably more like 10 to 12 cc's, especially since it's night and he's got to go until in the AM before eating again.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Is there any way that you can weigh him? Kitchen scale?

Pidgey


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

No way to weigh him tonight - but, he fits into my two hands - he's really hot. Does he need a heat lamp? i have one in there but don't trust it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At that age, they really don't need much of anything unless it's really cold. You can actually put feather duster over them and they'll easily stay warm enough but this guy's really too big to need that, even.

They do run pretty hot--107 degrees F.

He's probably in the 100 gram neighborhood so what Lovebirds told you will be good for the moment.

Pidgey


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Great. Thanks for all the tips. I'm going to try and get a few more cc's in him.

)


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Well, I believe in three tries over about 3.5 hours I have probably gotten about 10 cc's in him. He seems to be learning -- I cut off the entire end of the syringe - wrapped a piece of cloth with a hole in it. I think I can see him swallowing like he's drinking -- but, I'm not sure where his crop is -- or, if I can see a difference.

I think he's getting used to me though, because I tapped on the papertowel he is on trying to get something off my finger and he tapped. So, I did it again - and he did it again. Does this mean he's accepting me?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At that age, they accept you pretty quickly if you're the one bringing chow, usually. The crop actually sits just above (going up the neck) the breastbone. It tends to separate a little to either side. If you've fed them too much, they'll have two inflated balloons at the base of their necks, just in front of their shoulders.

Pidgey


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

1ne thing whats this formula called and where can it be purchased
2:whats the eye dropper for?
3:how big does the syringe need to be?


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Pidgey (or anyone): Can you look at these photos and tell me if it looks like I've overfed him (underfed?). Thanks!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0208-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0209-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0210.jpg


Pigeon lower: I just had the eye dropper - thought I might need it to feed him water. I can't answer the other question this one I bought holds like 16 cc's.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pigeon lower said:


> 1ne thing whats this formula called and where can it be purchased
> 2:whats the eye dropper for?
> 3:how big does the syringe need to be?


1. Kaytee Exact at just about any pet store

2. Feeding the bird but see # 3

3. Depends on the size of the bird .. 1 cc, 3 cc , 5 cc, 10 cc, 20 cc, 35 cc

Terry


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Can anyone look at these photos and tell me if it looks like I've overfed him (underfed?). Thanks!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0208-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0209-1.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0210.jpg


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think you can give him a bit more, maybe between 12 to 15 cc's. You can fill the crop until it feels and looks like a soft beanbag, not too hard but just so he sports a "belly" infront of him/her.  

Once the crop empties you can feed him again, that should be every three/four hours, depending on how much he eats per feeding. 

Keep him warm and out of drafts, and let us know how he is doing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The last one I had to finish raising a month or so ago did something like this little guy is doing--kinda' laid low when out on the flat like that. He (Squeaky Clean) grew up just fine and is out in the loft right now. Anyhow, it's harder to get an idea of how full they are when you're looking at them in that position. You don't need to give supplemental water when they're on Kaytee because there's plenty in it. If you want him to learn to start self-feeding, you can put seeds in front of him in a little bowl (something like a shot glass is better because it's harder to turn over) and peck at it with your fingers every time he begs.

Pidgey


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Okay, I just fed him (her?) again this morning -- I had about 15 cc's in tube, ended with about 3 cc's -- and I don't think more than a cc got all over the little guy. 

I used a warm wet paper towel to try and clean his beak, head and chest off a bit - is this okay to do?

I am uploading more pictures - and a video of him eating so I can get some advice on doing it better (or an attagirl! if all is good.) I'll send links as soon as uploaded (shortly). THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP - I FEEL GRATEFUL.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Here are the photos from after the feeding this morning - let me know if crop looks full (I think I know but, don't want to overfeed). Sorry for so many questions. . . 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0218.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0217.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0215.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0214.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0213.jpg


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Here is movie - please let me know if I'm feeding him right -- and, if I'm referring to the proper place for his crop. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVCw_slS6jI


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

I have to leave shortly and will not be returning tomorrow afternoon (can't be helped I have to work). My daughter (adult) will be feeding baby in my absence. I have left her detailed instructions, photos, movie, etc. -- and, this blog to ask questions.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

where did you find this guy anyways?
that is where the crop is, someone will be along soon to tell you if the feeding is correct. i've never had success feeding like that, BUT i've never had one that young.
i cant tell much in the vid if he is swallowing, or if he's just sticking his beak in and not doing anything. careful not to force and get it over his nose.
you're doing a good job, far as i can tell, and you guys will both get used to this.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

We have a pigeon on our balcony at work who has had several two baby litters -- we've watched them grow up with her (or not - some died and crows or ravens got the last batch) for the last two years. Anyway, she didn't show up at all since Thursday afternoon -- and, there was a pigeon killed on the street (we think it was her). We watched and waited all day Friday -- when she didn't show up we decided to take the baby home. Figured he wouldn't last if we didnt.

Edit: Also, he does seem to be drinking -- the throat goes in & out and makes sucking sound.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Probably the simplest way of figuring out if he's getting enough is to monitor the other end of the pigeon. As long as it's pumping out plenty of poop, you're getting there. For a bird that size, that's going to amount to between one and two actual tablespoons per day. -ish. (I've never measured, you understand, but that seems about right). The dryer they are, the smaller they can be but usually it's pretty wet when you're feeding a bird in the method that you are.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

nanobriga said:


> Here is movie - please let me know if I'm feeding him right -- and, if I'm referring to the proper place for his crop. )
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVCw_slS6jI


Hi nanobriga, thanks for rescuing the baby, s/he surely wouldn't have made
it w/out your intervention. Yes, you are feeding correctly, that method 
more closely resembles the manner they are fed by their parents. Looks
like you are "referring to the proper place for his crop" . They tend to have
a natural instinct to peck and need little encouragement to express this
from a human, though it would seem that you are his/her new pigeon
mom and the bird will more readily take cues from you because of this.
You're at the center of his/her world right now.

fp


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi there,
We just raised a baby feeding the method you're using. Biko (baby) would stick her whole beak into the tube (or we would stick her whole beak in I guess), and we usually made the formula liquidy enough that we could just tilt the tube to make the formula move down (we used a tube which was a syringe cover actually, not a syringe). If we made it thicker, she got fussy and wouldn't take it. As for covering the nose, our vet/rehabber told us that wasn't an issue, it's ok to cover the whole beak. When she demonstrated the feeding for us, she just tilted the tube away from the bird every few seconds so the baby could get some air. Then afterwards, we just cleaned off the beak. 

Here are pics of Biko in various stages of development, almost all grown up now!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/little/
You can see in one of the pics that she does have the "2 balloons," very full crop! But in the pics I've seen of parent-fed babies, the crops always look huge. So I don't think you need to worry too much about overfeeding...I did worry sometimes though that the baby's crop just might rupture, she looked so big! 

We used the info from this page to estimate how many ml to shoot for...http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm

This was our thread, has more info on feeding amts and so forth:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20910

Sabina


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Oh my goodness - what a difference a day makes! My daughter had trouble feeding him yesterday afternoon -- but, she finally got about 10-12 cc's in him. Then, last night she said he suddenly was a professional eater! He ate 14 cc's in less than a minute -- so, she gave him another 7 cc's. And, same thing this morning -- 30 cc's. I just got home and he ate 45 cc's no problem (of course much of it ends up on his chest) -- but, I finally can noticeably see the crop expanded! He's sooooo cute and funny! I know I'm going to have tons of learning to do - but, I think we're on our way! THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HELPED ME WITH ALL THE ADVICE AND TUTORIALS!!! I'LL LET YOU KNOW HIS/HER NAME ONCE I COME UP WITH ONE. :O)


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Oh yeah, one more question - any suggestions on how to clean him off? He has food caked at the end of his beak around his eyes and on his breast. I've wiped him off a little bit with a wet paper towel, but don't want to do anything to hurt him.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Just use a clean damp cloth each time after he is done like you are doing, and gently rub it off, it will build up if allowed to do so.

I think we need to think about manufacturing pigeon bibs for the future....., besides the diapers.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

So, my plan is to release him back to the wild. I read a post that said to take him out and let him hang out with other pigeons as often as I can. Anyone know how old he should be before I start doing that?

I can take him to Golden Gate Park on my lunch hour


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*Feeding young pigeon*

Can anyone give me a resource to learn how and when to start feeding this young pigeon more than just KAYTEE baby bird food?

I need to learn: 
when to give grit -- how much to increase feed - when to begin giving bird seed -- how to get him to peck grit, etc.

Thanks!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

The link I posted above states 40 ml every 8 hrs at 2 weeks of age, until they start to eat seeds. The earliest usually that they can start to eat on their own is 3 wks. It can definitely take longer! When they first start eating on their own, you should still supplement with a feeding at night, to make sure they're getting enough. For awhile,sometimes they just peck without really swallowing, so you have to really monitor to see how much you need to feed.

With this last baby, we transitioned from formula with small (parakeet) seeds in a tube, fed the same way as the formula (sticking the beak in, tipping the tube). Biko loves it! Even though he is definitely old enough to eat on his own (5 or 6 weeks!), I still feed him from the seed tube sometimes just cause he gets so excited!  

Grit-wise, I'd like to know that too. We generally start at about 8 wks, not sure how we arrived at that. When is the right time?


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you Sabina. I missed that -- I've gotten so much information in the last 48 hours, it's dizzying. I'll keep searching for more information. )


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*Baby eating like a pro!*

I just put up a video of the baby eating this morning. This is only 56 hours after bringing him home. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3GPWhHeG4s

I'd appreciate anyone's opinion on how old they think he/she is.

Also, how can I tell what gender the baby is?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

That's a sweet sweet baby. I'd say it's about 16 days old, give or take a day. You can actually start showing that baby some seeds. If he discovers how to pick one up and swallow it, then you're home free..............show him seeds and water. I usually drop a few seeds in the water, that way they'll stick their beak in to get the seed and discover what it really is. A couple of you asked about grit. Of course when the parents are raising them, they provide the grit for the babies. I've never given any birds that I hand raised any grit, until they were old enough to go out to the loft, which is around 28 days old or so. At that time, I put grit out for them and they discover it and eat it as they see fit.
Oh, you can't tell the gender until they are about 6 months old or so.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Lovebirds; I will go out and get seeds today. How deep of a dish should the water be in? I have those little glass desert cups (like for pudding I think) that are about 2.5 inches tall. Would one of those work?

Also, I'm thinking of buying one of those bird suits (Avian Fashion) for diapers so I can let him run around and take him out with me. I can only find one kind (see link) http://www.flightquarters.com/faqs.htm#how long wear

Any suggestions on diapers?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I use one of the little hamster dishes that is spill proof, it works well, also be sure to sprinkle them around on a towel and move the seed with your finger, this will spark their curiosity.

I leave seed in cups inside my parent birds nesting boxes, so they can eat right in front of their babies as needed, it not only allows the parents to eat whenever they need to, instead of with all the other birds in their dining room, but it allows the little ones to take notice. It is only a matter of time and the little ones are standing next to mom and dad and eating right along with them.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*Am I feeding too much, too little, too often?*

From all accounts my little orphan is about 16 days old today -- with the exception of one feeding yesterday, I can't get him/her to eat more than 20 cc's (approximately) in a feeding. Should I worry about that -- I've fed 4 times today between 14 and 20 cc's per feeding - and, plan to feed one more time before bedtime around 10PM. Won't feed again till 7AM or 8AM.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

nanobriga said:


> From all accounts my little orphan is about 16 days old today -- with the exception of one feeding yesterday, I can't get him/her to eat more than 20 cc's (approximately) in a feeding. Should I worry about that -- I've fed 4 times today between 14 and 20 cc's per feeding - and, plan to feed one more time before bedtime around 10PM. Won't feed again till 7AM or 8AM.


No worries .. that's great! Very well done!

Terry


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Hello - well, I went back to work today and I brought the baby with me so I could feed him/her. Two pigeons landed on the balcony a couple of times, so I thought I'd see if it was the babies parents (I didn't really think it was - but, thought I'd check). Anyway, I put the baby out on the balcony - and, he was peeping and one of the pigeons came right over (I thought maybe it was the mom) - but, she aggressively tried to peck the baby near his back! (Definitely looked aggressive -- as I've seen feeding lots of times). Will other pigeons kill baby pigeons? I kind of thought maybe it would adopt him. Needless to say, I'm not going to try that again.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It varies. Usually they won't adopt a baby that starting to feather but there are some dads who will feed any hungry baby who squeaks at them. But many will attempt to kill an unknown baby, too, or even a known one that's in their territory.

Pidgey


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

I was right there and so was my sister - and the pigeon came running right over. I was shocked and scared and mad!!! LOL 
Baby is fine though. )

I'm so happy I found this site - so many supportive pigeon people. Thanks to all.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

nanobriga said:


> Hello - well, I went back to work today and I brought the baby with me so I could feed him/her. Two pigeons landed on the balcony a couple of times, so I thought I'd see if it was the babies parents (I didn't really think it was - but, thought I'd check). Anyway, I put the baby out on the balcony - and, he was peeping and one of the pigeons came right over (I thought maybe it was the mom) - but, she aggressively tried to peck the baby near his back! (Definitely looked aggressive -- as I've seen feeding lots of times). Will other pigeons kill baby pigeons? I kind of thought maybe it would adopt him. Needless to say, I'm not going to try that again.


No, normally they won't adopt another baby. On rare occasions, maybe, but you're right......I wouldn't try that again. LOL
Even a babies own mother probably wouldn' take it back after a couple of days. They just don't mourn the loss of a baby like we would. If something happens to their eggs or babies, they may "look" for them for a little while, a few hours MAYBE....and then it's on to making more eggs and more babies.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

nanobriga said:


> I was right there and so was my sister - and the pigeon came running right over. I was shocked and scared and mad!!! LOL
> Baby is fine though. )
> 
> I'm so happy I found this site - so many supportive pigeon people. Thanks to all.



I have several couples that don't mind taking care of anothers squeeking youngster, but they are well fed couples that have plenty of time on their hands, and don't mind at all. I have had them go up to an older youngster who is out of the nest, and try to regurgitate seeds to it

This is NOT the norm, as pigeons will usually only accept unfeathered babies, but there is always the exception. I wouldn't recommend putting the baby with any adult couples/birds, cause its a big risk.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

No worries, I learned my lesson -- I have a lot to learn though obviously. I'm falling more and more in love each day -- have names now floating through my head. Haven't been a mommy in a long time LOL! I was originally planning to try the soft release thing - but, am considering keeping her. If I were Captain Kirk I'd say something like "bond forming. . . becoming . . . too . . . strong!"

Either way, I think I'd better get a cage - what size cage would you recommend for one pigeon?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

nanobriga said:


> No worries, I learned my lesson -- I have a lot to learn though obviously. I'm falling more and more in love each day -- have names now floating through my head. Haven't been a mommy in a long time LOL! I was originally planning to try the soft release thing - but, am considering keeping her. If I were Captain Kirk I'd say something like "bond forming. . . becoming . . . too . . . strong!"
> 
> Either way, I think I'd better get a cage - what size cage would you recommend for one pigeon?


Depends on how much free time the bird will have out of the cage. Longer is better than higher as pigeons don't climb around in a cage like parrots and other birds. I think probably a rabbit cage would be better than a bird cage. Other who actually HAVE a bird in the house will be along I'm sure with more info and ideas.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Well, I just found a 24"x24"x24" rabbit cage on Craigslist - hopefully I can go see it tonight. Next question - it looks to have a wire bottom. Would you put newspaper inside or outside the bottom? Wondering if it will be hard for her to walk on the wires. For $20 I figure this will work out at least temporarily.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

nanobriga said:


> Well, I just found a 24"x24"x24" rabbit cage on Craigslist - hopefully I can go see it tonight. Next question - it looks to have a wire bottom. Would you put newspaper inside or outside the bottom? Wondering if it will be hard for her to walk on the wires. For $20 I figure this will work out at least temporarily.


I guess it depends on how big the holes are. Maybe just half of the inside covered and sit the whole cage on newspaper. If it's just a baby, on second thought, maybe cover the whole inside. She can learn to walk on wire later. LOL


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> I guess it depends on how big the holes are. Maybe just half of the inside covered and sit the whole cage on newspaper. If it's just a baby, on second thought, maybe cover the whole inside. She can learn to walk on wire later. LOL


Okee Dokee then -- covered it is!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Our cages are lined with newspaper so it can be changed daily. Each also has a brick and wooden perch inside. Plus food, water, and grit containers hooked onto the walls. The 24in cage sounds good!


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks for the input. Sabina, do you mean like a red brick? I have plenty of those out back.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*Feeding Question:*

I got up and fed the baby this morning (about 18 days old now) - and, this was the first time I could visibly see that the crop was inflated. This was after feeding him about 12 cc's -- unfortunately, I didn't check it before I started feeding. He proceeded to eat about another 15-20 cc's. Crop felt full but not hard. That was at 6:30 AM. It is 12:10 PM right now and I'm about to feed again -- but, crop still seems a bit inflated. I'm new at this -- so, not to sure -- but, up till now even right after a feeding I couldn't really tell a major difference in the crop. 

I have to get back to work -- and won't return home till 5:30 PM. Should I go ahead and feed again? He acts hungry -- and, it's been almost 6 hours. But, I read somewhere in here about pigeons swallowing air - so, am a little concerned. Thanks!

Update: I went ahead and fed him - about 22 cc's -- crop feels soft & spongy. Will check back tonight when I get home. He seems okay I'm just kind of nervous after reading all kinds of scary problems on here.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

When I got home, crop still looked bigger than I'm used to  

Is this because he/she is growing? I waited till 7PM to feed and she was ravenous. Ate about 25 cc's I think (it's hard to tell, I need to get a bigger syringe). After feeding first syringe full (about 10-12 cc's) looked very bloated. I kind of put my hands around the crop from the bottom and put some pressure on it -- and, it seemed to go down some. I'm not positive, but may have heard some air come out of beak along with her peeping. Can someone please advise me on this?


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

nanobriga said:


> Thanks for the input. Sabina, do you mean like a red brick? I have plenty of those out back.


I'm not Sabina, but a red brick will work just fine (any color for that matter  ) (couldn't resist  ) A regular house brick. 
Sorry I can't help on the feeding questions, though.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I had that with one of mine. If poop's coming out the back end on a regular basis (and plenty of it) then it's not so much to worry about. We might look into some other things but keep feeding him for now. Air isn't that bad.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

At that age they should be eating 10-15% of their weight about four to five times a day. If you can feed only three times a day you can give more food at each feeding.
You are doing great.

As for a bit of air it doesn't matter much.

Reti


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you. I don't know how much she weighs - but, I've been feeding her four times per day (maybe 5 on a couple days). Last feeding usually at 10PM. So, I shouldn't worry about the air? It looks so big -- and up till now, never really changed that much. I let her eat till she kind of won't take any more.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I just remembered that we had a similar situation with Biko for a day or two. I sorta massaged the crop a bit each time (before feeding again), and it went down. Since that made us concerned about the possibility of sour crop, we also gave some yoghurt with each feeding, and added ACV to the water, and the problem resolved. Here is a thread about slow-emptying crops:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20770


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Again, Thanks to all - the threads were very helpful. I am going to get ACV and yoghurt today to be safe -- although, I think it may only be air. I don't want to take any chances. 

As for questions that arose this morning (I often wake up with epiphanies from sleep):

I made a connection that I should have made much sooner that may have some relevance. The day before yesterday I took 'baby' to work with me. I carried 'baby' in the temporary house I had (a plastic bin about 24"X18" wide) and had all the feeding supplies in there as well. As I was leaving at the end of the day, I slipped and fell on the last two steps and the entire bin turned over. I quickly lifted the bin and 'baby' was standing up quite tall with a startled look -- but seemed completely unhurt (just a little shaken). Everything went fine all evening -- no changes in 'babys' behavior, so I kind of let it slip my mind -- until it hit me and woke me up at 5AM this morning -- so, I went to check on him/her. 'baby' was not laying on the towel - but, directly on the newspaper and seemed a bit listless. I thought maybe it's just because it's still sleep time. I fed at 7AM and 'baby' ate aggressively (downed 20 cc's in no time!) and I had to refill - downed another 5 or so. So my questions are:

1. Do you think I could've injured 'baby' in the fall and that is what is causing the bloating?
2. Are they a little lethargic first thing in the morning?
3. What is the purpose of the red brick (or other color) in the cage?
4. 'baby' started picking up seeds last night (yay) - do I need to get grit now?

Thanks in advance for all answers and advice.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok i can answer the brick question--the brick is for perching--sitting, standing. Also the rough surface helps make sure the nails don't get too out of control...though we still have to file sometimes...

Injury-wise...I can't really answer but we had a little baby with subcutanous emphysema (air trapped in the air sacs) which the vet said could've been due to injury. That air was a little bit more on the sides, but could be interpreted as around the crop area. They put in a needle to let out the trapped air.

Lethargy...by the time we let the birds out of the cage in the am, they are pacing around and mad at us...but we don't let them out till 8 or 9 usually. So can't address that really.

Grit, we start when they're more adult, 8 wks, but as I said, not sure on that one. How old is the baby?


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

I would say that 'baby' is 18 days old today (give or take one day). We know he was born over the weekend so, should turn 21 this weekend )


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

*New pics*

Here are some pics I took last night:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0226.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0229.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0230.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/nanobriga/DSCN0231.jpg


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Reti said:


> At that age they should be eating 10-15% of their weight about four to five times a day. If you can feed only three times a day you can give more food at each feeding.
> You are doing great.
> 
> As for a bit of air it doesn't matter much.
> ...


Okay, I just weighed 'baby' - looks like nine ounces. So, how many cc's should I be feeding each time?

Also, If you have time to read #64 I'm still hoping for answers on that one. Thanks!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

9 ounces is approximately 255 grams. If you are feeding 25-35 cc's each time, that would be about the right amount.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You didn't drop Baby far enough to actually hurt him. Relatively speaking, they are way the <Bleep!> and gone tougher than we are.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

1. Do you think I could've injured 'baby' in the fall and that is what is causing the bloating?

I agree with Pidgey, probably not. And you would have seen some syptoms by now if s/he was hurt


2. Are they a little lethargic first thing in the morning?

Mine are not, but they are mostly adults.


3. What is the purpose of the red brick (or other color) in the cage?

They like perches and the brick is good as they keep their nails on the short side.


4. 'baby' started picking up seeds last night (yay) - do I need to get grit now?

When he starts eatin well on his own you can get the grit.

Reti


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

Here's video of this morning's feeding - I believe he is about 20 or 21 days old today. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRunGrOrvI


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a cutie, and isn't it wonderful, to have such a little darling SO dependent on you, but time passes so quickly. Before you know it he/she will be eating on its own and the youngster will be less demanding.

Thanky you for helping this sweetie.


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## nanobriga (Jul 7, 2007)

It's been very rewarding for me.


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