# What color will this finish out as???



## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

This young came out of my Black Lace Satinettes. 

Can anyone tell me what I should call it. I am sure it will look different after it goes through a moult.

View attachment 29391


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

36 people have looked at this bird and no one can tell me what color this is or is going to be.

Mark/Ace


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## hthomas (Aug 7, 2013)

its very young and alot changes as they grow, im by no means a "name" or "color" guy but i have Opal Satinettes, maybe there is such a thing as a reverse or negative opal?? id love to see pictures as the bird grows and matures, my satinettes are my favorites


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

ace in the hole said:


> This young came out of my Black Lace Satinettes.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I should call it. I am sure it will look different after it goes through a moult.
> 
> View attachment 29391


It is a frill stencil, blue chequer Satinette. It may or may not have some of the toy stencil complex genes, the latter, combined with frill stencil, give the white bars or cheqs., so the youngster may have white chequering after it has moulted. If the frill stencil gene only, is present, the chequering colour may not alter.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Thank you for responding. I will post pics of him/her when it gets older and then again after the first moult.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

It does not look frill stencil, frill stencil affects the tail, It is as TS by the look of it, the checks may become whiter with the moult.
frill stencil has nothing to do with white checks, TS1, TS2 and two doses of TS3 will give white bars or checks when FS is not even present.


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> It does not look frill stencil, frill stencil affects the tail, It is as TS by the look of it, the checks may become whiter with the moult.
> frill stencil has nothing to do with white checks, TS1, TS2 and two doses of TS3 will give white bars or checks when FS is not even present.


You obviously haven't noticed the white tail-spots emerging


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I see that now, frill stencil is not part of white checks or bars though, that is the TS complex


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I see that now, frill stencil is not part of white checks or bars though, that is the TS complex


I didn't write that frill stencil _alone_, produces white chequering.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Question. Can fs function (whiten) on the tail without Ts? I get an occasional spread fs/Ts homer who expresses whitening in the tail only.


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

tmaas said:


> Question. Can fs function (whiten) on the tail without Ts? I get an occasional spread fs/Ts homer who expresses whitening in the tail only.


fs//fs phenotype has white tail spots and white flight-tip spots, but the C areas will be pinkish-bronze coloured. The synergism between the bronze of fs//fs and Ts produces the white expression in the C areas of Oriental Frills. I don't know what combination of the Ts complex is needed to produce the white bars/cheqs.
Frill stencil expression is very variable, with some homozygotes not actually showing any frill stencil expression. Show marked black-laced Blondinette Oriental Frills will occasionally produce almost self-coloured offspring.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

indigobob said:


> fs//fs phenotype has white tail spots and white flight-tip spots, but the C areas will be pinkish-bronze coloured. The synergism between the bronze of fs//fs and Ts produces the white expression in the C areas of Oriental Frills. I don't know what combination of the Ts complex is needed to produce the white bars/cheqs.
> Frill stencil expression is very variable, with some homozygotes not actually showing any frill stencil expression. Show marked black-laced Blondinette Oriental Frills will occasionally produce almost self-coloured offspring.


Excuse the interruption but this post caught my eye 

So are white spots in the wing flight tips a definite sign of fs//fs

I have a white chequered bird has extensive white spots in the wing tip. I'll try get a good pic tomorrow.


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

LisaNewTumbler said:


> Excuse the interruption but this post caught my eye
> 
> So are white spots in the wing flight tips a definite sign of fs//fs
> 
> I have a white chequered bird has extensive white spots in the wing tip. I'll try get a good pic tomorrow.


Some toy stencil breeds, e.g. Suabians, have white spots, or 'finch-markings', on the primary tips, but no whitening effect in the tail feathers. So primary feather-spots are not necessarily an indication of frill stencil.
Look forward to your photo'.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

I'll have to get another photo :/ the other wing has a lot more white flecks but the photo came really bad. This one barely shows any but I decided to post it anyway since the look of the flecks is the same even though they are not on the primaries here.


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