# Peanuts for pigeons?



## Lin Hansen

Hi everyone,

In the emergency section concerning "Plucky,"
Treesa suggested a few raw peanuts as a treat for poor Plucky after his injections and she seemed to emphasize that the peanuts must be raw.

I feed a good size feral flock with seed twice a day in my driveway, and I also put out unsalted roasted in the shell peanuts on my back porch for a few squirrels that visit.
One pigeon in particular will come up on my porch and peck at a peanut till he breaks open the shell and eats the peanut pieces. As a matter of fact, when he is on my porch, I have been shelling a few peanuts just for him, so he doesn't have to work so hard.

Are these roasted peanuts bad for him? If they are, I will try to discourage him. Also, was just wondering, why must the peanuts be raw if that is the case?

Linda


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## maryco

Hello,

Yes these peanuts are not healthy for them, what you can do is go to walmart and buy a bag of squirrel feed, it contains peanuts in the shell BUT they are raw so the squirrels and the pigeons can eat them, whole corn, wheat and oats are also included as well as milo and some safflower, it's a pretty good mix!

The way you can tell the difference between the peanuts is to open them up (split the 2 sides apart) and the raw peanut looks whitish/cream and you can use your nail to scrape it and it's kind of soft and if you rub your fingers together you will feel alot of oil.. as for the roasted one it's harder and crunchy like the ones humans eat.

Mary


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## John_D

I get wild bird peanuts for pigeons, but go for the small, rounded ones rather than the bigger ones which people put in mesh feeders

John


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## Lin Hansen

Hi,

Mary and John, thanks for the advice...I will try to get the proper peanuts so they
can have their treats.

I did buy raw peanuts in the shell once by mistake and when I put them out for the squirrels, they were not happy! The squirrels definitly seem to prefer the roasted ones....do you think the raw ones are healthier for them as well? And just wondering, what makes the roasted ones unhealthy?

Thanks again for the good suggestions.

Linda


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## maryco

I think the raw ones are fine for squirrels as well because I used to buy the "squirrel mix" from walmart for my pigeons and I would shell all the peanuts for them but this mix was for squirrels!


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## Christina Coughlin

Has anyone ever had a problem with Aflatoxin Poisoning in Pigeons from feeding the peanuts? I had two conures die a few years ago from it and we were picking the peanuts out of the seed mix already but the toxin was already on the other seed. The necropsy is what showed the aflatoxin from the peanuts as the cause of death. The birds were sent up to WSU's Veterinary teaching hospital for the necropsy so it wasn't just our local vet doing it.

The symptoms were clearly a sick bird, laying flat on the cage bottom, difficulty breathing and bright red almost purple skin (he was a very plucked nanday conure so that made his skin very easy to see) which was the first clue that it was a poisoning of some kind. I won't feed peanuts to any of my birds because of it and no amount of cooking will kill the fungus either, its just to scarry for me to take that chance.


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## maryco

Hi Christina, 

I've never heard of something like this.. I used to feed my birds peanuts as it came in the mix. My pets got it at first too but now I just get a normal pigeon mix. 

My birds will not eat it anyway but I know that "pigeons" in general love it.

Hmm.. I wonder what others have to say about what you posted.


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## John_D

Hi Christina,

There has been quite a thing about peanuts and aflatoxins in the UK a while back after poison scares as, naturally, a lot of people put out mesh bags or other holders for peanuts for the songbirds.

My understanding of it is that the problem arises from the conditions in which the peanuts are stored - long before they arrive in the retail outlets we get them from. That, as I recall, prompted warnings about peanuts grown in certain areas of the world (not sure which) and avoiding them, as storage was likely not of a high standard. I believe it is humidity which affects them?

So, popular suppliers here - like the Society for Protection of Birds, the Wildfowl Trust and the big chains of pet stores (hopefully!) - were ensuring their peanuts were sold, prepacked, marked as aflatoxin free. 

So, for myself, I no longer pick up peanuts at street markets where there is absolutely no way of knowing where they were from, or how stored (they are sold loose there, of course), and those I buy I store safely once opened.

Now, I get peanuts mainly from the store where I buy pigeon feed.

Actually, human-quality peanuts are fine - if more expensive!! - provided they are plain raw nuts.

I think roasting may simply destroy much of the goodness - dries out the oil content, maybe?

John


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## Lin Hansen

Hi All

John, that was why I asked this question originally. Why were raw peanuts good and roasted peanuts not good? I had been giving the human unsalted dry roasted kind as a treat, but stopped after everyone said they were no good. I could get human variety raw peanuts in the shell, but the squirrels hated them and also it was difficult to peel off that bitter thin brown skin that clings to the nut. Figured the pigeons wouldn't like that skin, I know the squirrels don't and took forever to peel off as it clings tightly to the raw nuts. I just stopped feeding them as treats to be safe.

Are the roasted variety bad for pigeons or just not as good as the raw variety but still safe?

Thanks 

Linda


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## John_D

Can't honestly say I know if roasted are bad in the sense of actually causing any health problems, Linda - I use raw ones because they are the 'natural' product, really.

My take on it is, as I say, that roasting would seem likely to erase the goodness in them (ie, the oil content), and probably make them less easily digestible (tho pigeons have no problem with hard beans!!).

Personally, I've not tried the roasted (either on me or pigeons  )

John


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## Lee

*pea nuts*

lee here, 
I have been feeding my pigeons peanuts for years i always just get the ones in a can roasted and salted they will kill for a peanut and always look at my hands when i go to the loft to see if i have any .. When they see the peanut can the feeding frenzy is on.....Note i dont overfeed just a few in the evenings before bedtime they really love them.....


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## Whitefeather

I must have a group of real picky pijjies as none of them will eat the peanuts that are in the seed mixture. But then they don't eat the peas either.  

Cindy


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## Snowbird

And Lee, they may be after the salt as well; humans tend to get too much salt so it's generally considered something to avoid (correct), and is not good for a person (incorrect). A little sea salt is a very good thing and unlike humans, they don't normally get it in captivity--does anyone give their birds salt besides Lee and me?

This not to say they aren't wild about peanuts--with all that fat and protein it's not so far from "pigeons milk".


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## Lin Hansen

OMG, you see? All along I have been getting unsalted shelled peanuts and unsalted peanuts in the shell for the squirrels and pigeons believing, that since salt is probably not present in their diet naturally, it would be bad for them.

Is is good for them to have a little salt? I also worried that it could cause excess thirst and that that would be a problem for them if water is not always readily available..

Snowbird, what do you think?

Thanks

Linda


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## Snowbird

Salt is contentious in the human nutrition debate. There has been times it has been the villain and a few times when it is recognized as healthful. If a person eats anything prepared in the Fast Food Nation world they get tons of salt. But we tend to have our birds on a much better program then we keep ourselves on because ......(you fill in the blank). Therefore they don't get any salt at all--oops! Sure they get salts in a good pigeon diet, but my guess is a few grains of sea salt could be a good idea or Lee's salted peanuts. 

Also pigeons drink much more water than we do. Can you imagine drinking 10--15% of your body weight in water everyday--I don't know exactly what they do with it, but perhaps all that water takes a toll on body salt. I give them a very small amount until I learn otherwise.


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## Lee

*salt*

Lee here, 
In the book The Pigeon By Wendell M. Levi there was a study done on salt consumption by pigeons. A container of salt was offered to a flock of pigeons and was refilled when empty ,they ate a large amount of salt for a period of time and then they tapered off however they did continue to eat it . I have done this in my loft with simular results . I think salt in moderate amounts is good for the birds i also add the little salt rolls that are made for rabbits they will peck at it for days .. As for peanuts and the comsumption thereof pigeons are usualy spoiled (at least mine are) to the point where they wont eat what they dont like or know i have spoiled my birds (i love it ) they will go into my shirt pocket looking for bread or safflower seeds . Pigeons will eat peanuts if you offer them to them over a period of time once they endulge then they are crazy over them.In the summertime my birds fly at least 200 miles a week so they get electrolytes on a daily basis which contains salt . Some salt is absorbed by the birds body and the rest is discarded in the droppings which is a good thing as it will make them less likely to house bacteria and the like.. .............have a good night !!!


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## Lin Hansen

Thanks Lee,

In the flock that visits, there are definitely about five or six that will abandon the seed altogether if they know I have peanuts on my back porch....I think I will start offering salted just from time to time. Poor babies are ferals, so I guess whatever I give them is better than the garbage most of them have to forage through.

Thanks for the advice and info and you have a good night too!

Linda


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## WhiteWingsCa

Snowbird said:


> And Lee, they may be after the salt as well; humans tend to get too much salt so it's generally considered something to avoid (correct), and is not good for a person (incorrect). A little sea salt is a very good thing and unlike humans, they don't normally get it in captivity--does anyone give their birds salt besides Lee and me?



While I wouldn't advocate giving salted peanuts -- since so many studies show that it can be BAD for the birds --- yes, salt is ok for the birds in itself.

Many people I know (ourselves included) put the small round "rabbit salt" spools in the loft for the birds. We use the red mineralized ones -- the birds love them -- just put a screw thru the hole in the middle, right into a beam at the top of the perches, and the birds nibble away at them when they feel the need for salt.

As to the problem with peanuts going bad-- as John has already mentioned, a lot has to do with the storage. We buy our peanuts in small amounts at a time. In hot humid weather, we keep them in the house, not the loft. And hubby checks them all carefully before putting any out for the birds.

I also know people who keep their birds' peanuts in the freezer -- taking out only a bit at a time.


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## birdy

I like to lightly sea-salt the greens that I give my racers. I'm now giving them chopped cilantro (on Dano's advice some time ago - where's Dano these days???) and they really like it.

I've read where pigeons can over dose on salt if they're not used to it. I would advise that a small amount be given at first.

birdy


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## John_D

Per Dr. David Marx -

"Remember, salt deficiency frequently occurs during reproduction, especially after the parents have fed more than one round of young. Symptoms associated with salt deficiency are watery droppings, wet nests, eating excessive grit, nibbling on unusual objects (salt deficiency can result in pica, an unusual or depraved appetite). If you cannot taste any salt in the grit you are feeding, it may be salt deficient. This need for salt only becomes obvious when feeding young, as a rule. Adding salt to the grit (in moderation) may prevent this. Giving salt to salt-starved pigeons can be a problem too. The birds crave it so much, they will overeat salt, and this can cause salt poisoning. Salt poisoning causes swelling in the brain and can result in death. Replace the salt gradually to prevent this. A little salt (1/2 tsp./gal) can be given in the drinking water to help restore the normal needs. Do this only for a few days and only if the pigeons are salt deficient."


The RSPB does state that some garden birds (notably sparrows, starlings and pigeons) are more salt tolerant than others. 

I would think the thing about not feeding salted peanuts would still hold good, though, in general - if only to be safe.

John


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## gypsyJ

*peanuts*

I have always fed crushed,shelled,unsalted & roasted peanuts as a supplement. I get mine a the grocery store in 2 lb bags. I would think that roasted would be healthier because the bacteria would not be so prevalent.


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## Christina Coughlin

*Salt & Aflatoxins*

 I don't feed salt derectly to my birds either BUT... they get plenty of it in the other stuff I feed them like, breads and all those tasty treats that I feed to my Parrots. I make up my own mineral block mix (with the help of many, many vets) and I add salt, quite a bit actually once I think about the amounts once its all mixed up. 

The seed mix that I was feeding when my conures died from the aflatoxin was sadly a major name brand in bird food... We are now ordering our seed from birdseed.com where I can pick from many differant mixes and even get a beautiful peanut free, corn free (for my umbrella cockatoo that is allergic), colored pellet free, completely perfect in my eyes seed mix.


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## fred128

Lin,
Salt is not good for a couple of reasons. Like humans, it raises the blood pressure in pigeons. Birds may like the taste of salt but they have much fewer taste buds than we and because of that, they don't taste salt until it has passed the level of toxicity. Birds have died during winters because they drank water from salted roads.
The really important reason is that roasted peanuts lay like rocks in the crop. The crop fluids cannot break them down and so they can't pass into the gizzard. Obstruction and infection will begin unless the bird can throw them up. I've lost birds in the past from their having eaten roasted peanuts. I don't know about the adults, but young pigeons cannot hold these peanuts without obstructing. 
If I feel peanuts in the crop, I'll feed Purina Puppy Chow to fill up the rest of it in the hope that the bird will throw up all the peanuts. Normal digestion does not occur if there are peanuts in the crop. In an emergency, I've had to make a small incision in the crop and get all of the peanuts out. It's a bad scene all around.
They do love peanuts for the fat content and raw, unroasted peanuts are a terrific addition to their diet.


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## Lin Hansen

Okay Fred, that's good enough for me! I recall reading a post awhile back, I know the name was Fred (was it you?) saying that a bird had had a whole peanut in the shell stuck in the crop and had to make an incision to get it out. When I fed the roasted peanuts, I always took care to break each shelled nut into tiny pieces, more or less crushed them actually. But why take a chance? Think I will stick to seed. Or just raw peanuts as a treat from now on.

Thanks
Linda


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## TerriB

*Supplemental Salt*

Regarding dietary salt, some of the supplements contain mineral salts. When I first tried the Beyers' pickpot, I sprayed a little water on top to soften it up for the little beaked birds. After several days, the salt deposit was visible on the outside of the clay pot. One caution, if this is the only calcium source for a hen, she may get diarrhea from too much salt. I also provide the red powdered minerals and a clay tan pickstone.

Terri B


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## Christina Coughlin

Fred - How does the puppy chow help the bird to thow up? Do you just fill the crop up to much or is there somthing in the food that helps with that? Just currious but would like to know for future referance!


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