# Dove/Pigeon can fly but can't stand



## planty

Hi

I am an animal lover, but, never had birds as pets. Am based in UAE currently.

Today, while resting on my 7th floor terrace, I found a light grey bird (that I thought was pigeon) lying below my sunbed (resting on its belly, not standing on its feet). When I tried to approach, it tried to fly like 8 feet, and, then, fell. I understood something was wrong, and, I caught it, but, due to my loose grip, it flew out of my hands to another building's terrace across the road (like 20-30 meters), but, fell again on the terrace floor. I managed to go there and get her back, this time with firm grip.

I found that she didn't have ability to stand on its feet, which were just let loose on one side of the belly. I googled/youtubed and her symptoms didn't match those of birds with broken legs (no bruises/swelling/bleeding). The bird is like 4-5 inches long.

So, I took her to a vet here, who confirmed that it was not a broken leg, but, probably a viral infection called "Newcastle Disease" which leads to inco-ordination between brain, limbs & wings (some sort of paralysis). He prescribed 1ml injection of potassium arsenite for the next 10 days, which he hopes should bring back the bird to normalcy.

He has even written an interesting paper on this treatment, where around 50 infected falcons in the middle-east were treated with this compound out of which 37 recovered within 8-10 days. His paper:

http://www.priory.com/vet/falcons.htm

But, after reading a lot about this disease on the web, I don't know if the symptoms of this bird are actually those of the Newcastle Disease. So, I don't know what kind of incoordination/paralysis it is that the bird can fly but not stand.

It looks so scared that its not eating the canary feed (given by the vet), and drank a little water after 8 hours of trying.

Sorry for the long post, but, I really want to save this beautiful bird. Have attached some pics and posted a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P6CLtLajaI&feature=youtu.be

If some expert can assess her condition and advise, both for treatment and feeding, I will be very thankful.

I will keep posting her response to the treatment, so, others can benefit, if positive.

Thanks in advance


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## Dima

Thank you for rescuing the dove.

I do not think it has NewCastle.
Personally i think it hit a window and now has a spine/nerve problem; this is the reason it cannot move the legs.
Most of the time , if that's the case it would heal by resting and having vitamins ( for birds) especially with CA & D3 and all the B vit.
Do not attempt to have her walk on a slippery floor like tiles.That will splay her legs on top of the problem she has. ( carpet is the best to check how she walks, but it's not the case now)
Make a towel like a doughnut and place her in the middle of it. She does not need to walk for a few weeks. Provide dove seeds and fresh water every day with vit in it. 
I love her new home with leafs. Place her in big pet carrier or big cardboard box with paper towels underneath and the doughnut towel where you will place her to sit and rest.
You can pop in her beak Ca & d3 (only ) 20 mg a day for a week. If you have CA& D3 pills check how much mg is in it and cut it into pieces of 20mg.
Make sure her legs, when she rests, are in the proper position ( and not behind her).
You can wrap her legs if you wish with first aid bandage.

Any questions are welcome.

Members on PT will come and help.


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## planty

Hey Dima

Thanks for your prompt response, and, really, forgot to mention that this is a great forum, where I am seeing so many bird lovers at one place, helping each other to the max...really pleasantly surprising...

That doughnut towel is a great tip, since, I also was wondering how to keep her legs free and not under her body weight (which is why I got some waste leaves from a florist...hard to find grass here in Dubai)...she is already nesting on the doughnut now...her box is big enough though (15 inch X 15 inch)

Since, I am new to this, pls advise how/where usually can I get these CA & D3 pills (are they 2 different pills, one with Vit C&A, and nother with Vit D3?), and how I can beakfeed her...I tried to feed her those seeds, but, she wouldnt even open her beak, except for water...and, I don't have the talent to open that tiny beak and force in food. 

Any why is this leg wrapping required?

Thx again...


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## planty

Pls also advise if:

- I can make some food for her with ingredients (that we eat), if yes, how, since, it might be hard to find dove food here in the middle east...
- how many times I should feed the dove
- what quantity

Thx


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## Dima

She doesn't eat at all?
If not here's a easy , rich in proteins trick: defrosted peas. You may want to wrap her in a towel and just leave her head out. you pop the pea far back in her throat, she will automatically swallow:
Here are some prewritten feeding instruction...

*You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to.
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.*

You need only CALCIUM WITH D3, they always come together, since calcium is proceed with D3 in the body.


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## Dima

What kind of seeds can you get.
Wild bird seeds are OK.

I sugested the leg wrapping if the legs go in other position than the normal one, which is underneath her, not sideways or backwards


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## altgirl35

Seems like spinal trauma to me too
If you pinch her toes does sh respond?


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## planty

I am glad 2 people feel that its not Newcastle Disease, but, then Spinal trauma...does that cure with time...? The bird looks quite active though...every 1-2 minutes, she tries to fly inside her box, changing positions...

@altgirl35: she does respond when I touch her feet...but, looks they are not receiving all energy/signals from the brain/body

Do you guys think you can guess from the pics the bird's age? From youtube, I guess, she is not a baby...as her neck is not long, rather chubby...and she was flying when I got her...

@Dima: Thanks for the peas trick...I am trying, but, I feel scared hurting her trying to open her beak a lot...also, it threw up the water out after 5-6 sips...
Its early morning here and the bird & I have not slept...is it important that I feed her or can she wait a few hours...?she hasn't eaten anything for 12 hours now...The vet gave me canary seeds though which the bird denied outright...

And last question...why is not making any sounds/squeaking like other birds I see on youtube...?didn't hear a single sound...


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## altgirl35

i'm not sure the age
they can recover from spinal trauma, but sometimes they do not, will have to wait and see
make sure floor of box is nicely padded so she doesn't hurt herself worse
she is being quiet because she is scared, i wouldn't expect to be vocal in captivity 
leave seeds for her and a small dish of water at least a 1/2 inch deep so she can drink and let her rest
hopefully she will eat on her own 
and you go get some rest too!


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## Dima

She threw up water? The water she drank?

Here's a video how to open the beak. This pigeon is tamed. You wrap your dove in a towel, gently squeeze the beak at the base, also you can use your other hand to open the beak by pulling up the tip of her upper beak. Then just take a pea and pop it a bit far in her beak (not at the tip on the beak). She will not get hurt at all. Courage. She needs to eat, otherwise she will die of starvation. She is scared of hands and especially fingers, they look like predator claws to birds and that's why she may struggle.


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## Dima

To answer to your question. She looks young, may be 3-4 months old. She should be able to eat on her own if you leave seeds. Make sure she has light to see them. They do not see in semi dark or dark room. I like her white feathers underneath her tail.


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## Dima

The video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow


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## planty

Thanks a lot Dima & Altgirl35 for answering those queries...

Well, this is what is surprising, that she is not a baby, but, is so stubborn that she won't open her mouth...I have tried to handfeed the seeds to her, and scattered them all across her box, but, she just sits on them, and, on the water bowl...as if she never ate/drank in her life....this is till last night...

This morning, I tried to use the peas feed, and was easily able to open her beak, but, her mouth after the beak is too small for the smallest of peas...

so, finally, found some recipes and mixed crushed corn flakes with bird seeds and water, that she ate some...but, due to her nervousness, she pooped ...lot of liquid followed by solid...pic below...pls advise if that poop is normal...

All in all, her energy/desperation is not decreasing....every 2 min she flaps her wings to attempt to fly and hits the carton walls...

Thanks


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## planty

I know its Sunday guys, but, need inputs, so, we can save the bird...

the thing is that the doughnut towel isn't working as the bird is continuously trying hard to fly, with its feet pushed behind its belly...

So, finally, I am trying to make a swing with a cloth wherein I plan to wrap the bird, so, it can't spread its wings (as if its in my hands)...and I will then have her legs suspended in air through this swing...makes sense? or can the bird forget to fly if it can't move its wings for 3-4 days?

For the food, I was finally able to force some (seeds, water, cereals mix) inside her throat...can I give her boiled soft sweet corn or can they choke her (knowing she couldnt take peas)?

Thx


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## altgirl35

They can choke on wet foods
It's tough when they are like this
I just keep them in a small padded cage
I have ones made out of fiberglass screen called reptariums 
I don't immobilize them, I think it's just to stressful for them
Try not to worry to much yet about force feeding her
She can probably eat on her own and will when she feels safe enough
The fact that she was sitting on the water bowl makes me think she is drinking 
Not sure about the poops but glad to see them it means she had food in her
Again poops can be abnormal because of stress 
Let her rest, keep her basically on bed rest in a small padded confined area
Keep her clean 
By any chance do you think that vet will give you some meloxicam or some kind of pain relieving anti inflamatory?


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## planty

Thanks Altgirl35

So, you mean the pics below could stress her more...I have made a hole in the swing so her feet are suspended in the normal position, touching the ground, so, she starts taking some weight, and not being pressed under her belly...my only aim was to stop her doing more harm to her lifeless feet by trying to fly every 2 minutes...now, atleast she is tranquil...I plan to remove her shirt every few hours, but, will remove it if you suggest...

The vet didn't prescribe any of those meds, but, only 1ml potassium arsenite every evening, which we did today...he says, with experience, this will help her bring back the brain coordination and she should recovered in 6-10 days, otherwise, she would have to be put to sleep...

and sweet corn ok for her?


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## Jay3

If you can get the small frozen peas they aren't too large for her to swallow. Just looks like they are. She needs food or she will get weaker. When she flaps her wings, I don't think she is trying to fly. I think she is trying to regain some balance and right herself. Because she can't use her legs, she will use her wings.


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## planty

I was able to find smaller peas and finally fed her...so glad..thx for the motivation guys...

can someone advise if the Calcium pills with D3 are to be bought from a pet clinic or a regular pharmacy...and how to feed it to the bird? Dima suggested to mix it in water, but, she is not drinking so much...


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## Dima

CA & D3 vit pill for humans. Cut it into pieces of 20 mg/day.
Birds vitamins , powder, are usually mixed in water, but because she doesn't drink, you can roll a few peas in the powder when you give her peas.

If she doesn't drink water, use an eye dropper and drip on the side of her beak. Do not force to give her water in the beak, she can aspirate and die within minutes. You can also use your finger and tip it in the water with a bit of splashing noise. She is wild, she may not know water comes in the bowl.

Regarding Potassium arsenite, 1 ml, how do you give it? I that is more to keep her hydrated, it's like an electrolyte ( potassium). But arsenite, weird, if it's from arsenic, that's toxic. The vet must know better.

You need to hand feed her enough 20-50 small peas, until her crop is full. Do not feed her until the crop empties.

Ho are the legs?Underneath her or suspended. Some people keeps them in a sling. But as Jodi said, no need. There's no problem if she has pressure on her legs, as long as she has a nice comfy towel underneath her. Her problem are not the bones or joints.

She's one of the kind. She keep you busy with all her energy. I am glad she is not lethargic though.


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## planty

Thx for the great tips Dima...you guys are bird encyclopaedias...and you don't know how much you are doing for these creations of God !!!

All comments noted.

Now, the chemical breakup you stated takes me back to my college days, and, arsenic is indeed toxic...but, here is a paper written by the vet:

http://www.priory.com/vet/falcons.htm

The vet weighed the bird (80gm), gave her a double shot and diluted the medication, gave us 10ml, to use 1 ml everyday. He then taught my wife to inject the syringe just parallel to her spine (1mm away).

I don't know if thats reqd, coz, I have read so much, heard so much and learnt so much about birds in the last 2 days, that my brain doesn't agree that this bird has Newcastle. If she had, how would she reach my 7th floor terrace in the first place...of course, she hit something and fell over....

so, I just hope she gets through this agony, with all the hard work that you guys and I am putting into it...


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## Dima

The medication injected doesn't seem to make her sick. Right? I don't think would hurt her even if she doesn't have Newcastle. Which i am sure she does not have it. How many days you have to keep giving it?


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## planty

No, rather she becomes a bit more energetic after the injection, both yesterday and today...8 more days to go...

but the word toxic is not going out of my mind, and, am wondering why I am giving her something used in insecticides & pesticides...

more research on the vet shows that he is also a researcher/scientist, files a patent for this treatment and has many publications around this treatment to both people (including himself/his wife) & animals and most subjects showing full recovery...

found some interesting articles u can read on this Super Vet:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...res-cfs-in-falcons-so-what-about-humans.8357/
http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/arsenic.html
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11561958
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15129582
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11131041

to name a few...

I hope it doesn't harm the bird, which is so full of energy


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## Dima

A vet wouldn't risk the life of an animal. It's part of their ethics, especially that he is helping you. Otherwise would have told you to put it down.


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## altgirl35

I wasnt sure what the sodium arsenate was used for
Just found this on a quick search
Looking a little more into it
http://www.priory.com/vet/falcons.htm


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## altgirl35

Can't seem to find much about it, not sure if I would continue to use it or not
I can't really advise on it, don't know much about it


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## planty

Hi all

another day passed...I am able to feed the peas to her now, twice a day...
Tried honey+yoghurt on vet's suggestion, but, either she threw up, or pooped (same light yellow color as honey yoghurt mix)...also gave her the 3rd dose of injection...her energy level has also gone up since yesterday, and, she is flapping her wings like crazy today...just wants to break free...legs in the same state (behind her)...

but, observed something strange...her beak that used to close properly till morning is now not the same in evening...the upper part has gone a bit to the left, with some opening...I don't know if my regular opening of her beak for feeding did this or her aggressive hitting of carton walls...

in all cases, its worrying me a lot, can be compared to a human who has paralysis of one side...pic attached (not very clear)...any guesses???


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## Dima

She could had been injured herself . The upper beak looks it went too far in. I heard of pigeon with twisted beaks, that can be put in proper position by gently pulling it outwards.
I hope you can do it or go to the vet. It take one minute, hopefully it will not charge you this time.
Do not feed her honey or yogurt anymore. She will aspirate it and die within minutes. Yogurt has probiotics in , you better by bird vitamins & probiotics and put it in the eater she drinks, or sprinkle a little on the peas.
May be if you stop feeding her, she may start eating by herself. Put the seeds in from of her and count them, that's how you'll know she eats.


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## Dima

I noticed you put a bandage. If you want to do it right there's a picture. Do not wrap it too close or too loose and also not to tight around the ankle as she will loose circulation.


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## Dima

In order for her not to fly , make sure there's no light in her box. Allow light only for her to eat.
You should put some padding all over the box so she doesn't injure herself further more.

Let us know how's the beak try out.


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## planty

Thanks Dima again...

1. If I don't feed her honey+yoghurt, does water pose the same threat? She has anyway showed signs of eating...she drank the honey mix herself, but, only pecked into the seeds, I guess, she doesn't know how to eat...

2. I tried to fix the beak, but, it doesn't...another forum suggested a nerve damage could be the reason...

3. I can't put any badage on her feet, as she can't even stand on them...or can I? She would not even be able to crawl if I did that...


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## Dima

planty said:


> Thanks Dima again...
> 
> 1. If I don't feed her honey+yoghurt, does water pose the same threat? She has anyway showed signs of eating...she drank the honey mix herself, but, only pecked into the seeds, I guess, she doesn't know how to eat...
> 
> *Water doesn't pose any threat, I thought you hand feed her honey and yogurt in the beak.
> keep handfeeding her defrosted peas and also some seeds. Put seeds in a bowl and tap your finger, may be she learn that way to peck at them and eventually eat.*
> 
> 2. I tried to fix the beak, but, it doesn't...another forum suggested a nerve damage could be the reason...
> _*As long as her upper beak is twisted she cannot close and open her mouth, so she will not be able to pick up the seeds. May be she's been trying to eat all this time. Can you take her again at the vet to put the beak in the right position , please. Otherwise you will have to handfeed her for as long as she lives and she will not be releasable back into the wild, if she gets better.*_
> 
> 3. I can't put any badage on her feet, as she can't even stand on them...or can I? She would not even be able to crawl if I did that...


_*Do not allow her to crawl at all, move or fly. the damaged nerve will never mend that way. All she needs is to sit/lay down with legs nicely folded underneath her , just as a normal dove with lay down. 
No need to put bandage..I though i saw in the picture something attached to her thighs.
*_


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## planty

Thanks Dima/all for the suggestions...

Well, things are getting better, as she is gaining some strength in her feet...we feel it and the vet confirmed it...

I made a towel boundary inside the carton so she doen't hit the box walls with her feathers & beak, but, this served like a blessing I guess.

Instead of lying with her legs behind and belly on top, she has actually started lying on the towel on her back, and, feet coming in the front...just like someone would watch TV (or belly dance ) and her wings spread out...she stays much calm in this position, and, even slept in this position...pic attached...

For the beak problem, I took her to the vet yesterday, but, he said, it will get ok on its own, as long as bird is not developing paralysis of one side, which is not the case with her...

but, I still want to fix it somehow...would tying the beak (with a thin tape, avoiding the nostrils) for a few hours every day get it back...or can someone suggest a better and less cruel way...

He even taught us to feed honey+yoghurt (or butter+honey) in a way that can't aspirate her...he used a thin plastic syringe, and, opened her beak, but, took the syringe deeper inside almost into the crop, and, then putting the food in one shot..he was very confident with this, and the bird didn't react a lot...we have done it twice this way since yesterday and she doesn't complain...

One last good thing....she has started pecking into the bowl with canary seeds, but, due to the beak issue, she can't pick them all...only a few from the rear of her beak...

Thanks


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## Dima

She is such a clown. She should not sit in the " watching TV" position. The way you wrapped her in the towel is good.
You are not just feeding her honey & yogurt..That's not proper nutrition. Are you feeding via syringe directly inside the crop? If yes, make sure you criss cross syringe from her left side into her right side in her throat. There are 2 pipes, one for breathing one her left side and one for digestive tube.

I am glad the little one's leg are getting stronger. This is a sign of recovery..but too bad that the vet didn't fix the beak. You don't want to hand feed her forever...so please keep trying to pull out her beak. Just the way she got it in by hitting herself into the box, the same way you can pull it outwards. She wants to eat, but she cannot and she will not eat since with that beak cannot pick up seeds and roll them all the way to the back of her throat. But if you put the seeds in bowl, and lots of seeds, deep dish, she stick her beak far in enough to get so in her mouth.

Did you take her to the vet since he confirmed that she is gaining strength in her legs? Why the vet didn't fix the beak?


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## Dima

She is such a clown. She should not sit in the " watching TV" position. The way you wrapped her in the towel is good.
You are not just feeding her honey & yogurt..That's not proper nutrition. Are you feeding via syringe directly inside the crop? If yes, make sure you criss cross syringe from her left side into her right side in her throat. There are 2 pipes, one for breathing one her left side and one for digestive tube.

I am glad the little one's leg are getting stronger. This is a sign of recovery..but too bad that the vet didn't fix the beak. You don't want to hand feed her forever...so please keep trying to pull out her beak. Just the way she got it in by hitting herself into the box, the same way you can pull it outwards. She wants to eat, but she cannot and she will not eat since with that beak cannot pick up seeds and roll them all the way to the back of her throat. But if you put the seeds in bowl, and lots of seeds, deep dish, she stick her beak far in enough to get so in her mouth.

Did you take her to the vet since he confirmed that she is gaining strength in her legs? Why the vet didn't fix the beak?


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## planty

Hi

Its not a very happy valentine's day for us here...

Till yesterday, she was showing signs of more energy and strength in her legs, but, her behaviour has totally changed since this morning.

She slept whole night with peace, but, then, she kept sleeping till early afternoon. She would wake up for 10 seconds, and, then, sleep, in my hands, on the bed, everywhere....this stressed me, and, I called another vet, who said it was abnormal...she looked like going down...

all vets in Dubai were of course booked, and, emergency consultation costs only 250 USD...which I could not afford, of course...
so, as a last resort, I took her in the sun and open air for like 30 minutes, where she slowly started gaining energy, drank some water, ate some seeds...flapped more than ever and wanted to fly...she was able to stand on her legs with my support too...

I anyway took her to an avian specialist vet this evening. He saw her and said, "This bird is destined to die very soon". He patiently heard my whole story...said, its probably not Newcastle, but, it is for sure some virus that has damaged her neurological stability...so, she did fall mid-flight, but, because, she was already weak, and losing her strength/coordination...he didn't think that trauma was the reason for her condition...

he said that the muscles are shrinking, and, she now weighed 61 gm, as compared to 81gm when we got her 5 days ago...he also found 2 tonsil like things in the rear of her beak (near the throat), calling it bacterial infection...
so, the vet didn't wanna put her on any medication, except for some anti-bacterial painkiller drops for her tonsils...he suggested euthanasia, which I didn't want, seeing her progress (other than weight loss which is due to insufficient diet and the virus)...

So, he said as a last resort, I need to feed her more and with better stuff and gave me a chicken mix to feed directly into the crop using a catheter...he taught me, and I did it later...

so, the mood is real down today, and I can't tell how heavy my heart today is...but nevertheless, I will give it a last try, and, lets see what God decides...

need your prayers and advices, if any...


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## altgirl35

Well, the lack of food hopefully is why she is lethargic 
Now that you know how to tube feed her it will help her gain some strength 
When I tube feed pigeons I use parrot handfeeding formula 
Is that something you can find?


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## altgirl35

Did the stuff in her throat look like white cheese?


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## Dima

Did the vet fix her beak?
The tonsil in her throat could be Canker. And since she is stressed she may develop Canker.
I didn't know bird have tonsils. Lol Jodi, is that true?

How often do you feed her and how much? There's also Kaytee Exact you can buy and feed her. Are you use the syringe inserted in her throat. May be you would like to try a little plastic cup with rubber on it and a small cut where she will put her beak in.
Cheer up..It's VALENTINE dAY and she is still with you. She didn't give up fighting.


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## altgirl35

No I don't think they have tonsils


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## planty

Thanks Dima & Altgirl35

The vet didn't fix the beak...he was already pessimistic...though he denied canker...its not tonsils..that was my lack of bird terminology...he said its some bacterial infection, and, no fatty cheesy deposits...

Anyway, I cleaned her bottom today, took her out in the sun, and she felt better...Here's a vid of how she was today...(and some pics below):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpv8_YPWw_w

Am feeding a chicken mix called "Nutribird A21", around 6-8 ml, 3 times a day, mixed with Ca+D...as you advised...I wll continue this feed as the vet suggested, with some seeds, that she has not started showing interest in...

She also has a heating pad now...


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## Dima

Poor baby. I do not know if 8 ml three times day is ok. Hope someone will help with feeding measurements.
Now i can see that her legs are paralyzed. She doesn't even bend her elbow/knee.


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## Charis

I have just read this last part of your thread, at Dima's suggestion. 
Please don't put her out in the sun or in the yard, in her current condition. I can tell she is very ill and she is very vulnerable to any other creature that could do her harm.Do keep her inside, on the heating pad and quiet.
Can you tell me what kind of a dove she is ?

She needs to be fed every time her crop empties. It's critical not to add food to her crop if her crop isn't empty. If you do, she likely will develop a bacterial infection which most often is deadly.
The crop is located below the throat and above the keel bone which is in the center of the dove. When the crop has food in it, it fills like a little balloon.When empty, it's just very flat.

From the look of her droppings, I think she does have an infection that is affecting her liver. Most often that is caused by canker and the medication most of us use is flagyl also called metronidazole. I also suspect she may have a another bacteria which is a form of botulism is causing the paralysis of her legs. The antibiotic I use for that is baytril or the generic version enrofloxcin.
Personally, I would discontinue the medicine the vet gave you. I don't think he has knowledge of birds. It's your call though.
One final question that's very important...is the upper beak locked into the lower beak? If that is the issue, it's a common injury to birds. If that is the problem, it's critcial...and I can't tell you this strongly enough...that you gently pull the beak apart and unlock it.


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## Dima

Can you please buy enrofloxcin and metronidazole at the pharmacy or pet store?
If not would you order it please.


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## altgirl35

Ugh, she looks absolutely miserable and distressed
Hate to say this but if she was in my care I would set a day a and if there wasnt improvement I would euthanize her
I know some people will disagree with me, but I can't stand to see them suffer and I think it's unfair to keep them going sometimes 
I agree with charis about the meds, if you can get them , and you don't see improvement in a week or so I think you should release her from this suffering


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## Dima

altgirl35 said:


> Ugh, she looks absolutely miserable and distressed
> Hate to say this but if she was in my care I would set a day a and if there wasnt improvement I would euthanize her
> I know some people will disagree with me, but I can't stand to see them suffer and I think it's unfair to keep them going sometimes
> I agree with charis about the meds, if you can get them , and you don't see improvement in a week or so I think you should release her from this suffering


Aw..we need meds ASAP..Can some one post some links for Baytril & Metro in Dubai.


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## planty

Dears

She is no more and we are broken...

I left her at 5ish this morning and she was not on her heating pad....she had gone to the other side, trying to peep below the cushion (as she was doing for last 2 days), but, away from it enough to breathe...so, I did not want to disturb her, and, I covered her with a very light cloth (5 gm max) till her shoulders to avoid her from getting cold...she was still 2 inches out of the cloth...

Now, I don't know what happened, but, when I went to check her at 7, she was frozen with her eyes half open...her poop below her...and the cloth in exactly the same place where I had left it...did she die of suffocation or diarrhoea, (as she pooped 3 times in 3-4 hours last night)...attaching a picture of the poop to know at least if something was wrong...I want to know for the sake of my mind and for future, so, you can be honest...

I feel terribly sorry for either suffocating her or not giving the proper care/nutrition that she deserved, as, she was super active whole day yesterday, starting to perch on my fingers, flapping her wings till the night...she of course didn't look anywhere near to death...

May God give peace to her beautiful, loveful, and strong soul...we learnt a lot from her and this experience...

I buried her just now in the woods nearby...

Thanks for your support throughout last week of her struggle...

See you sometime


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## Charis

I'm very sorry.


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## planty

Thanks Dima & Altgirl35 & Charis for all your inputs...and support from day 1...

I don't know where I was when you posted your answer...probably asleep..and, this is the time she took off to leave us...

I am not just able to comprehend what happened all of a sudden...when she was so energetic whole day and in the night...

We will miss "Nanni", she was so pretty and cute and innocent...her actions and movements are not going away from my mind...never had someone so close die...like Dima told me, she taught us a lot...A LOT really...RIP little princess...and good luck to you guys for saving other such babies...


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## altgirl35

I'm so sorry, don't think it was anything u did
In the video she looked really sad and ready to pass to me
That's why I said what I said about euthanizing her
I don't usually say that out loud on here even when I'm thinking it
Fly free with the angels pretty bird


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## Dima

Rest with Angels Little dove. Now you can fly and walk free Sweetie. 
I have tears in my eyes.

Thank you for caring.


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## planty

Maybe you were right altgirl about euthanizing her, and, so, was the 2nd vet, but, it is videos like these that seemed like a ray of hope...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTPwm83Lq0g

Of course, the difference between myself and the person saving the dove in the video is experience and knowledge, which I didn't have unfortunately...

So, I tried everything...but, I guess, I should have tried only a few things...its not maths...its life...but, I have learnt a lesson today:

if we find any injured being in need of help, we should not treat it ourselves, unless, we are professionally trained to do so...I don't believe in gaining experience at the cost of such beautiful lives...I should have either taken her to an animal rescue or waited one night...I panicked, and, took her to this "Potassium Arsenite" guy, who could be a good scientist, but, obviously, not a bird guy...even the diet he suggested was opposite to every forum's suggestions...I felt the difference when I took her to a bird vet...

unfortunately, you guys were suggesting medication, so, why not the vets...her condition in the last video was not new..rather, it was almost the same as on the day I got her...

the mystery for me is not what happened to her when I found her, but, what happened so suddenly last night in 2 hours...the people you love never let you know when they leave...

some experienced friends on the other forum have tried to answer this. you can give it a read if it helps you in anyway to save more birds in the future:

http://www.pigeonchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5290

we are terribly missing "Nanni", and, can't tell you how much...have collected some feathers she shed and saved her t-shirt...these will go into a photo album dedicated to her...and we (my wife & I) will always remember "Nanni" as our first child...her absence on our bed where she spent the last week is killing us...we had no target this evening...no one to feed, no one to love...am broken...


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## OfficerPigeon101

Dima said:


> Thank you for rescuing the dove.
> 
> I do not think it has NewCastle.
> Personally i think it hit a window and now has a spine/nerve problem; this is the reason it cannot move the legs.
> Most of the time , if that's the case it would heal by resting and having vitamins ( for birds) especially with CA & D3 and all the B vit.
> Do not attempt to have her walk on a slippery floor like tiles.That will splay her legs on top of the problem she has. ( carpet is the best to check how she walks, but it's not the case now)
> Make a towel like a doughnut and place her in the middle of it. She does not need to walk for a few weeks. Provide dove seeds and fresh water every day with vit in it.
> I love her new home with leafs. Place her in big pet carrier or big cardboard box with paper towels underneath and the doughnut towel where you will place her to sit and rest.
> You can pop in her beak Ca & d3 (only ) 20 mg a day for a week. If you have CA& D3 pills check how much mg is in it and cut it into pieces of 20mg.
> Make sure her legs, when she rests, are in the proper position ( and not behind her).
> You can wrap her legs if you wish with first aid bandage.
> 
> Any questions are welcome.
> 
> Members on PT will come and help.


I have this exact same dove I rescued as a little squab since I raise pigeons it really wasn’t any different. But it has to follow me everywhere and I stepped inside just for a second and somehow it flew ito the door or something and now can’t move it’s legs. I did notice it’s body was a bit bigger like it has swelling internally but no broken bones. I’m hoping it will heal and recover fully because we just started learning how to search for food and molting into his/her adult feathers. We call him/her Sammie and it is the coolest little dove. It came when called, loved to give nubbies (snuggles and love), and was just extremely affectionate and smart. We are going to be extremely sad if Sammie cannot recover and has to be put down! I do have a 5 in 1 I keep on hand for my pigeons and vitamins but not sure how to cut the pill for a much smaller dove. I’m thinking cutting it into 4 pieces and give it a quarter piece each day for awhile to fight off any possible infection or disease that could take opportunity. 


Dima said:


> CA & D3 vit pill for humans. Cut it into pieces of 20 mg/day.
> Birds vitamins , powder, are usually mixed in water, but because she doesn't drink, you can roll a few peas in the powder when you give her peas.
> 
> If she doesn't drink water, use an eye dropper and drip on the side of her beak. Do not force to give her water in the beak, she can aspirate and die within minutes. You can also use your finger and tip it in the water with a bit of splashing noise. She is wild, she may not know water comes in the bowl.
> 
> Regarding Potassium arsenite, 1 ml, how do you give it? I that is more to keep her hydrated, it's like an electrolyte ( potassium). But arsenite, weird, if it's from arsenic, that's toxic. The vet must know better.
> 
> You need to hand feed her enough 20-50 small peas, until her crop is full. Do not feed her until the crop empties.
> 
> Ho are the legs?Underneath her or suspended. Some people keeps them in a sling. But as Jodi said, no need. There's no problem if she has pressure on her legs, as long as she has a nice comfy towel underneath her. Her problem are not the bones or joints.
> 
> She's one of the kind. She keep you busy with all her energy. I am glad she is not lethargic though.





Dima said:


> CA & D3 vit pill for humans. Cut it into pieces of 20 mg/day.
> Birds vitamins , powder, are usually mixed in water, but because she doesn't drink, you can roll a few peas in the powder when you give her peas.
> 
> If she doesn't drink water, use an eye dropper and drip on the side of her beak. Do not force to give her water in the beak, she can aspirate and die within minutes. You can also use your finger and tip it in the water with a bit of splashing noise. She is wild, she may not know water comes in the bowl.
> 
> Regarding Potassium arsenite, 1 ml, how do you give it? I that is more to keep her hydrated, it's like an electrolyte ( potassium). But arsenite, weird, if it's from arsenic, that's toxic. The vet must know better.
> 
> You need to hand feed her enough 20-50 small peas, until her crop is full. Do not feed her until the crop empties.
> 
> Ho are the legs?Underneath her or suspended. Some people keeps them in a sling. But as Jodi said, no need. There's no problem if she has pressure on her legs, as long as she has a nice comfy towel underneath her. Her problem are not the bones or joints.
> 
> She's one of the kind. She keep you busy with all her energy. I am glad she is not lethargic though.


I have a dove (same species even) with the same problem! I’ve been raising it like I would one of my pigeons and since the little guy could fly has to follow me everywhere! Well I went inside just for a second and little Sammie flew into the door! When I came out it was on the ground wings spread and when I picked it up first I noticed it’s body was bigger! No broken bones though. It cannot move its feet. Or squeak anymore it seems. Before I could call it’s name and it would squeak back and come to me and shake it’s wings all happy begging for a snack. I truly hope it will recover and regain its ability to walk again since it would be extremely heartbreaking to have to put Sammie down! It’s only about a month, month and a half old and is the coolest lil bird I’ve ever had! It’s extremely affectionate and smart and was always giving us love or (nubbies) and just all around a cool little bird! I have a 5 in 1 I’ve been thinking of cutting into quarter pieces to help with any infection or prevention any illnesses try to take opportunity! It’s spine is fine, no broken legs or bones. It can eat on it’s own and drink but I find it much easier to just give it a crop full of pigeon milk since it has lots of vitamins and protein. I also add electrolytes to the milk. It’s been pooping just fine so it’s organs are working fine. So hopefully it will recover after some time and love cause it would really suck to have to put Sammie down at such an early start in life. Hopefully the quarter size 5 in 1 will help!


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