# Is this rear in pigeon?



## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

So i have 2 nest mate (both hen) that have strange feather tail. 

Somehow the 4 feather tails in the center are longer the those feather tails on the the rear side. 

here are the pix



















when you spread the tail, the 4 in the center is a lot longer. First i though it was just molting but its been months now and the feather tails on the rear didnt length up. 

So can someone please tell me whats going on here. All my other homers doesnt have this kind of flight tail.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It was just a weird moult. They will probably grow in normally next time  I've had birds with the first primary feather longer than the others on either side of it, just like these in the middle of the tail are longer than the others. Most of the time it corrected itself in the next moult. But not always.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> It was just a weird moult. They will probably grow in normally next time  I've had birds with the first primary feather longer than the others on either side of it, just like these in the middle of the tail are longer than the others. Most of the time it corrected itself in the next moult. But not always.


When they were still weaners, both have these same length feather tails. Both are 6 months old now and they both have their molt last October when they weaned to adulthood. 

one of them have youngsters this spring and right now are mating again for a second round. 

I hope its not gen defective cause i believe their mother is like a crossbreed with something that i dont know, maybe a tipper x homer (due to both wings are hanging/touching the ground) but their dad is a full homer. but then i do remembered that the dad had some uneven tails too. 

One question, can stress lead a bird to grow uneven feathers such as in the wings and tails?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Stress can effect the moult yes


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## amumtaz (Jun 13, 2007)

*Qualmond*

The first picture looks qualmond to me. Can you get whole body picture of the second one?


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

amumtaz said:


> The first picture looks qualmond to me. Can you get whole body picture of the second one?


not its not qualmond, it is andalusian. Father is a ****. andalusian and mother is a cream pie.

here is the pics.

here is the 2nd hatch with pa(the one you said is qualmond) which its andalusian









here is the 1st hatch









***many would assume that this one is a cock because it's color resemble its mother but its not. both of these off springs are hens. this one just had a youngerster.

here is her family.
















**i think this offspring is a hen carry recessive white also the white cock doesnt have hidden color i believe.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The father isn't a homozygous andalusian. Unless you mean homozygous for spread and heterozygous for indigo. Pretty birds though.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> The father isn't a homozygous andalusian. Unless you mean homozygous for spread and heterozygous for indigo. Pretty birds though.


Becky is right, both the father and mother are spread indigo (or andalusian). Neither are homozygous for the indigo trait, though the youngsters seem to be, even though they are remarkably light for homozygous indigos. Maybe they are dilute also?


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## amumtaz (Jun 13, 2007)

The tail picture looked like a qualmond from the first picture. It seems besides spread indigo, this bird has another modifier present in the genotype to make the tail feathers look that way.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> Becky is right, both the father and mother are spread indigo (or andalusian). Neither are homozygous for the indigo trait, though the youngsters seem to be, even though they are remarkably light for homozygous indigos. Maybe they are dilute also?


here is their mother.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

amumtaz said:


> The tail picture looked like a qualmond from the first picture. It seems besides spread indigo, this bird has another modifier present in the genotype to make the tail feathers look that way.


can you elaborate that a little more. I mean, is it common in pigeon and can it determind anything? such as disease or muatation.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

gbhman said:


> If you live in the states then that is quite a late hatch. When I zoom in on the pictures those outer tail feathers really do not look like they even moulted out... they still look like the old juvenile feathers. Being such a late hatch it is very possible that they didn't complete their moult, explaining why you see a difference in the feathers. If you still have them when they moult again then you will see if they even out or not


yes i lived in Minnesota and you are correct both of these hens are late hatch. The hatched back on August 1st 2011. it had been 7months now and if they are still having their juvenile feathers then that would have explain it. thanks. Lets see if they will moult out this summer. 

*I was carious beacuse i have other young birds before this two and they dont have those uneven tail feather. the white cock is only 3 months older then then hen and he dont have uneven feather. and so as my other RR white hen and its mate, a B check cock. *


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

right now she dont look like she is going to moult. She is ready to start her next clutch. I saw them mating frequently now.

Shall i pull those 4 long feathers out and see if its a juvile feather or not? Sure it will grow back in 2 weeks.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

rudolph.est said:


> Becky is right, both the father and mother are spread indigo (or andalusian). Neither are homozygous for the indigo trait, though the youngsters seem to be, even though they are remarkably light for homozygous indigos. Maybe they are dilute also?


I think you are getting the birds mixed up. The two birds in question are not related. And the picture with the two andalusians are the young bird on the left and its father on the right. Then the lighter baby with the weird tail feathers, has a recessive white parent and what looks like a reduced mother. Which the baby also looks reduced to me. The mother of the andalusian baby looks like reduced spread brown.


But anyway! This thread is not about color, it's about the middle tail feathers being considerably longer than the others. But like I said before, don't worry about it and see if it corrects itself with the moult.


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