# Just Starting Out



## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey Everyone

Ive just joined and Im really excited!! Im not very confident on forums so your always most welcome to correct me whenever you want.

Im looking for advice:
Im just getting ready to get some pigeons but Im not really sure exactly what to do and I dont want to do anything wrong. I can do with absolutley any advice you Experts have.

Thanx 

Hanie


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hiya Hanie and welcome! I'm still a newbie myself, one month here now. You'll find some really awesome people here with loads of experience, so you've definitely come to the right place if you want to know anything about pigeons, lol!

I find that asking detailed questions helps getting right on answers, so don't hesitate to elaborate on what you need help with.

Just by looking at your question, I would guess more information is needed, as it's a bit vague. The experts would probably want to know what type of pigeons you are wanting. Do you want to race them? Are you looking for pets? Do you want to breed them? Have you already ordered your pigeons? Do you know what breed/species they are? How many are you getting? 

So, just lay it all out there and ask specific questions and I have no doubt you'll get great advice!

Again, welcome to the forum!
Izzy


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I found good info on this site and *a lot* of good links...

http://www.pigeon.org/


... here's some more good links :

http://www.redroselofts.com/
http://www.pigeonology.com/index.php
http://www.jamiegleave.freeserve.co.uk/contentspage.htm

Here's some pigeon supply places :

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/
http://www.globalpigeon.com/main.html
http://www.jedds.com/
http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/index.html

I see that you're in New Zealand though... maybe someone else here on the board will come up with some info that is a bit more "local" for you, but maybe at least this will give you some surfing material...


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Visit others that raise and breed pigeons in your area.
Start small. You can grow later. 
Get a basic book on pigeons 
Ask questions here, and be specific.
Good luck and welcome.
Regards,
Carl


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Sorry guys I should have been more specific!!
Thanx heaps for your replys, and advice, I look forward to looking at those sites that you sugested ZigZagMarquis!  
For starters Im planning on getting 2 pigeons (Male and female fantail) as pets. Id like to Breed them too. also Id like to train them how to come back home after youve let them out if you Know what I mean (I think its called homing?).  
Really the sort of stuff I need to Know right now (obviously) is about the cage for permanantley keeping them and breeding etc, before I can actually get my pigeon.
And things like food, perches, how long to keep them in their cage before they will come home, bathing (I read about some of it in one of Izzy's threads - it was really interesting), breeding Nest Bowl thingies and otherthings I will need to know/have before I get my pigeons.

Thanx again heaps

Hanie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hanie, 

Your choice of pigeons is a good one, fantails make nice pets so I hear. However, you will not being able to let them "home", they are not homing pigeons and therefore do not possess this ability. Also, they are not the greatest flyers because of that HUGE fanned tail. It's very cumbersome for flying and for them to get about the business of making little fantails.  


Brad


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello there,

This is just a general post on baisc indoor pet pigeon needs.. I will post some more for you depending on your situation and where you decide to keep the birds.

For now, just thought you might find this post helpful

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Pigeons make wonderful pets and are pretty easy to care for, here are some basic things that pigeons need: 

1. Fresh water (I usually change it twice a day) 

2. A good pigeon mix either from a feed supply or pigeon supply store is best. Bulk stores often carry some grains which can be mixed to make a pigeon mix, make sure they are good quality and not infested with bugs (Wheat weevils are often a problem in the wheat that I have bought from a bulk store) 
A good mix with quality grain should contain most of these seeds: Wheat, barley, whole corn/unpopped pop corn, white/green peas, maple peas, buckwheat, flax, milo, millet, safflower, vetch and others..

There are many mixes out there, here is a good site:
http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm
http://purgrain.com/products.htm

Some snacks that pigeons enjoy occassionally are: Raw unsalted peanuts (NOT roasted), safflower, sunflower hearts, hemp, sesame seeds and others..

3. Pigeon grit (Not gravel from a pet shop) You can get red cross grit from a feed supply store, it contains crushed oyster shells and is a good source of calcium.
Also you can offer him chopped cuttle bone, this is especially good for hens who are about to lay.

4. Pigeons kept indoors will need a vitamin supplement because they are not exposed to direct sunlight to produce their own vitamin D3. A good Avian Supplement can be found at a pet shop or from a pigeon supply store. Make sure it contains vitamin D3 (I use a product called Prime, by Hagens)

5. Some pigeons enjoy eating veggies and some fruits.
Vegetables to try are fresh spinach leaves, garlic greens, kale, lettuce (Romaine is best and not iceberg) grated carrots, thawed peas and corn from the freezer bags. Sprouts are also very nutritious, you can grow your own as that's safer. Lentil sprouts and mung bean sprouts grow very quickly and pigeons LOVE them!
**Veggies like Broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage should be avoided.

So far I've only tried fresh papaya fruit with my own pigeons, papaya contains enzymes which aid in the digestion. Only small amounts should be given though.
**Avocado is toxic to all birds.

Additional benefits:
- Adding ACV (Apple cider vinegar) to the water once a week, this helps keeps add some acidity to the system which keeps diseases like coccidiosis, canker and crop candida away.
The dose is 1 tbsp per gallon of fresh water. 
- Probiotic powder mixed into the seed (moistened with afew drops of sunflower oil, garlic oil, or corn oil) or adding the probiotics to the water once a week as well will help replace the good gut bacteria. If this is not convenient then an alternative is giving a probiotic capsule every 2 weeks or month down the pij's throat.
Probiotic capsules can be bought from a health food store, the same kind that humans can take.
Probiotic powder can also be found at a health food store. 
This is one designed for pigeons specifically and is available at Jedds and Siegel:
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-dia.html

- Five medium cloves of garlic can be put in a gallon of water or a tiny bit of grated garlic in the water bowls, garlic is healthy and keeps the feathers looking nice and internal parasites away.
- A brewer's yeast tablet (avaiable at pet shops, mostly for dogs) and cod liver oil capsule (for vitamin A and Omega 3 which keeps the feathers shiny) can be given once a month.

Housing: 

A nice cage will do for overnight roosting, the pigeon should be able to stretch out both wings and still have some room. Pigeons don't really like round perches so you can get a flat perch.
The droppings should be cleaned once a day to keep the cage clean and the pigeon healthy. 
If the pet pigeon is to be kept in the cage most of the day then he needs a big indoor cage (Of course still needs some flying time outside the cage as well, building a cage is much more convenient as many of our members have. Cages that big are hard to find and expensive)
If the pij can be kept free in a seperate room even just in the day time then that's much better.

Baths: Once or twice a week putting out a tub with water will help keep the pigeons clean, pigeons LOVE baths but will splash around quite a bit so an old shower curtain on the floor will make it easier to clean up.

If you have any questions please post them here..


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Fantails make great pets. They are not noted as good flyers so when you release them from the loft, they will probably no fly further than the roof.
Carl


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The modern fantail. American Fantail. will not fly much. Now fans that have not been bred towards the standard. Say backyard fantails They willl fly more have a smaller tail More scooped or funneled. But The fantail in my books is the most compeitve breed of show pigeons out there. A good fantail is nice to see. And when bred towards the standard. They are very pleasing To show and work with. The fantail by nature is a gentle breed a little more work then some other breeds. But worth the trouble. As to this which Type would you be looking for. Backyard fans or the modern show type fantail. Or even perhaps the indian fantail. Which is larger, muffed and more over of complete different type then the american fantail.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I looked back and noticed you are from New Zealand. Do you have local fantail breeders near your area? Or will you import them.


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey guys  

Thanx so much for all the awesome info and posts!!
Thanx Brad I never Knew fantails didnt fly well.
Thanx for all that great info Mary its really helpfull, and just one question, what would be the smallest size cage for permanent housing??
Carl when you say they are not good flyers but they will go as far as the roof, will they then come back inside or do fantails not "home" at all?
re lee I never new there were that many different breeds of fantails!!I will be getting my fantails from a local pet shop (if I get fantails). You said in your post that fantails are more work than other pigeons, what other breeds would you advise for having as pets?

Thanx again everyone
Hanie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Hanie welcome back,

Yes, fantails could fly to the "roof" depending on how high that roof was Are you planning on keeping your pigeons indoors or out? The smallest PERMANENT sized pen for pigeons is one that is large enough to provide a nest box for a pair, and flapping room for both birds at the same time. If you are planning on keeping them indoors, then it can be smaller but it's preferable that you allow them out of their pen regularly each day for proper exercize to flap around and move...at least an hour a day. Owls, frillbacks and satinettes are all tame birds and make for easy to maintain pet pigeons. It all depends on what you are looking for and what you want from your pet pigeons. Breeds that don't have "excessive" mufts, crests, or fancy feathers are generally easier to maintain and breed. 

Brad


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Thanx Brad for that quick reply!! Im planing on keeping my pigeons outside. ive got a frame for a cage 61 inches wide by 55 inches long by 55 inches tall. Is that big enogh? or does it need to be bigger?
All I want from my piji's is for them to be really tame and even come to you. They dont need to be fast or excessively pretty. And I would quite like to breed them too.

Hanie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Hannie, 

Well I'm online so i'm going to be fast! LOL. Yes, that sized pen is good for 2 pigeons indeed. However, if you are planning on breeding them and depending on how many you eventually want to end up with, that size could get small and QUICK Fantails are a wonderful breed but they have some difficulties in mating sometimes and you may have to clip the feathers around their vents (bums) in order to make things easier for them. It all really does depend on your long term goals and what you want from your pigeons. If you could be a little more specific on these long term goals and what you want from your pigeons, that would be great. Any pigeon that is domesticated and given the chance with constant human care, will prove itself to be a very loyal and tame pet bird. Bare in mind though, they are NOT parrots and will never talk or have that kind of personality. Pigeons are unique and you have to consider certain things about them and what to expect from them. I'm sorry if this is stupid to you but you are new here and again, i'm not certain on your understanding of pigeons  


Brad


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey Brad

Dont worry nothing you say is to stupid for me because I know very little about pigeons!!  
I wouldnt want to Breed too many pigeons, because it would be more work and it would get very expensive. Deffinatley no more than 10. Maybe more like 4-6. 
Another thing I want to be able to do is leve the cage door open for a few days and they will look after and feed themselves? or does that not hapen with pigeons do yoy always have to be there??  Its just that our family often goes away on holiday!?

Hanie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Hanie, 

4-6 birds is a nice amount Pigeons can definitely take care of themselves in a manner if you were to leave for a few days. It's just I'm not sure of your setup or what kind of property you live on in new zealand. I would NOT suggest you let your birds out without supervision while you are away. Predators can be lurking and attack them or they might wonder off. They would do better left inside their pen if you were to go away for a few days with plenty of seed and water. Even better would be to have someone "pigeon sit" if they were able....just to change the water daily and top up the seed.


Brad


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

May I suggest. You might check your area out. So you may find a local pigeon breeder. And perhaps several. That way you can see different breeds And find what suites Your desire.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*feeding and watering*

Just to echo what Brad has said. It is far better if someone can look in on them if you are away. 

One thing which is very important is that pigeons get fresh water at least daily. If you have only covered water containers, once a day should do, but if any drinking water is in an open container it can and will get pooped in which is definitely an unhealthy situation.

It is also not that easy to provide food for 'a few days', unless you have a good sized hopper which will dispense food by keeping the open tray filled as they eat - again, protected from poop.

As far as pigeons as pets goes - well, they are all individuals and some are more 'human-friendly' than others. Except in some special cases, like people who have found themselves raising a baby pigeon which sees them as a substitute parent, pigeons generally recognize that someone is kind to them, and may become hand tame, but mostly don't have the same kind of attachment to people as, say, dogs.

John


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

From some of your posts are you saying that piji's are not that great to have a pets? or are they good as pets?  
with the going away and having someone "pigeon sit" what would they have to do if you were away for a week?
is there any particular breeds that you can advise that are good at homing and can be quite tame? or would i have to look into that myself?

Thanx

Hanie


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey Everyone  

I see that no one has made any new posts!  
Ive talked to some local pigeon owners. Homing pigeons would aparently be the best but the only problem is that we have a Homing pigeon breeder and raceer just over the road from us (who I also talked to) and he said that if I got homing pigeons they might (when I 1st let them out) fly over to his place when they see his pigeons. Is this true? if I let my pigeons out at a different time to him would that work??  

Thanx

Hanie


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

I'll try and answer a few of your recent questions.

1. If you go away for a week -- you DEFINITELY have to get someone to look after your birds -- they need fresh water every day -- every other day at the very least. It is better to put down fresh food every day too -- leaving feed in the tray overnight is an open invitation for disease carrying rodents.

2. Rollers would be just as good as homers, if you're looking for "pets", rather than working birds.

3. Yes, if you have homers, yours MIGHT go visit the neighbours, and vice versa. But, if you start them young enough, and fly them only when they are hungry, and train them right -- they won't stay at the neighbours. In Europe, there can quite literally be 10 or more lofts within a 10 mile circle-- and all the birds know which home is theirs.

4. Any "homing" breed will home -- some better than most -- it isn't the "breed", it's the "breeding" that counts. Rollers can 'home' to some small extent too, I've heard

5. the tameness of the bird depends on how much time you spend with it, and how old it is when you get it. There is no one breed or type that is tamer than others, that I know of.


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Thanx for your reply!!  

When you say Rollers can 'home' to a small extent do you mean that they arent great homers?
And if I bought babies from the neighbours would they be more likeley to go over to the neighbours than if I got them from someone else?

Thanx 

Hanie


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Hanie,
Whitewings.ca has given you the right stuff.
Rollers, homers, it does not matter if you want them as pets and you take the time to train them properly, they will stick with your loft.
Rollers are more interesting to watch fly, especially so if the roll.
Regards,
Carl


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Are rollers harder to look after?
are they easy to train?

thanx 

Hanie


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Rollers are about the same at any other "fly" type pigeon, in terms of care and training.
It takes daily effort, patience, and a love for the birds.
Carl


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

Are Rollers less likely to go visiting? Or would homers not go visiting either?  

the main problem for me would be going away ( getting someone to look after them ) and having the time to clean out the cage everyday.  

Thanx

Hanie


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## Hanie (Oct 14, 2004)

*Thanx For all the Help!*

Thanx everyone for all your posts its been a great help! I have found Pigeon-Talk the best sorce of info around, mainly because you can ask questions and they get answered!
Im still not totally decided on whether Im going to get Pigeons or not because of the time factor, but if I do Im planing on getting Rollers!!  

Thanx again everyone

Hanie


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