# Cloaca prolapse



## rescueme (Jan 28, 2007)

Help! My friends has a pigeon with a slightly prolapsed cloaca. It slighly poking out like a little pink donut. This pigeon doesn't fly, she has a broken wing since a baby. 

She has still been laying eggs and acts normal. Some of the eggs have a little blood on them. 

My friend says that she has been like this for a few weeks and meant to ask me what to do about it. 

Any suggestions? We are going to take her to the vet, but want to know what we should be expecting the vet to do.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2007)

It may be too late to do anything. A prolapse is an emergency and has to be treated immediately. Allowing the tissues to dry out and become necrotic is no good. What was necessary was a surgery using what is called a purse string suture to raise the prolapsed organ. It's probably too late but make sure and take your bird to a vet. In the meantime, put a layer of vaseline or KY Jelly on the area to prevent more drying out.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It sounds as if the cloaca isn't fully prolapsed, but there could be a partial prolapse there, something a lot of women experience. If you watch a pigeon poop the little pink donut will be visible for a while and disappears, in this case it just hasn't reverted to normal.

It may, however, be weakened and in danger of collapsing completely with egg laying. I would check this out with a vet and see if it can be corrected in the early stages before it becomes an emergency.

Cynthia


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Prolapse*

Rescueme, and others, 

I experience rectal or colon prolapse (are these the correct terms?) and experience a burning sensation if I sit on the toilet too long reading, or have diarrhea. Vaseline always provides relief, and the situation usually rectifies itself. 

This has happened since I was a teen, and for years I thought I was a bit of a freak, and didn't know how much might eventually come out. Then one day I read about it somewhere and realized it was common enough to have a name. Since then I've also realized that since there have been so many humans on earth during the history of the human race, that probably nothing any of us do is really that uncommon and worth hiding and being ashamed about. That said, hope none of my family reads this. (Joking). 

On a web site last year I read of a college student weight-lifter who was trying to squat lift more than he should have. He gave a big push, squeezed, and felt a good part of his colon go through the anal sphincter. A nearby student took a photo and posted it on the web. Looked as large as a newborn's head trying to come through. Hospital visit took care of it, and he preferred to remain anonymous. (It wasn't me). 

Cynthia,

By the way, thanks for correcting me, or pointing out some errors, confusion of facts, I have made in some posts. I need to do away with sloppy research, and stop trying to rely on my memory for some things. Get so involved in the details that I miss the main issue, and do a possible disservice instead of service to PT. (I'm referring to posts about wood pigeons, pheasants, wild birds, game, birds in too-small cages, and probably scads of other things in past postings I have yet to discover. Been tired a lot and sometimes do stuff "half-*ssed." Need to take the care the postings deserve. 

Larry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I thought about this and it struck me that what is visible is part of the vent rather than the cloaca.



> I need to do away with sloppy research


Your research was fine, it was the location that was naturally confusing. The US share so many place names with us.

But I always post prematurely and then have to do edit after edit to add or correct. It is just because we are enthusiastic.

The problem with research is that you don't know when it is complete. You could go on for days.

Cynthia


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2007)

Larry,
The real danger is not only tissues drying up but also, the blocking of fecal material from voiding properly causing toxicity. It's normal to see part of the intestine during the passing of droppings but when it stays out, that's very serious.

In a partial prolapse, there may still be room for fecal material to pass but one danger is that some of it may be left behind to turn the body toxic. It's bad news no matter how one views this problem. Also, there is always the possibility that the hen could not pass an egg so she literally squeezed her insides out of the vent. 

In the past, I've brought birds with this problem to a vet but the only recourse that could be offered was surgery and that was far too expensive for me to be able to afford.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re premature postings*

*Cynthia*, 

Hopefully you didn't witness the senior moment I experienced yesterday or the day before.

Came across a thread. "Upper beak missing!" Yes, upper beak still missing!" "... can bird survive with upper beak missing?"

Jumped in with my post bout how last year Splitbeak, with upper beak missing, managed to survive for a year or more (part of it with the assistance of a deep seed-filled jar), so don't let the vet euthanize her just yet. 

Posted.

Saw the last post discussing healing broken wing. No mention of missing beak! Saw that George Simon had recommended checking to see that upper beak may have bent and penetrated lower beak and was not really missing. Saw that upper beak had been repositioned successfully. All this had had happened months ago! And I had confused Pidgey wih George Simon as the one who had thought of searching for the displaced beak. 

My urgent posts were a bit late! Deleted them. And more stuff like this has happened lately. 

*Pigeonperson*,

Thanks for the info. 

Actually it was when I saw two featherless baby pigeons my wife and I raised (*Vanilla/Pidgiepoo*, and his sibling *Chocolate* who died after 13 days) sticking their butts ouside the nest bowl and pooping with their little rectums coming out a couple of millimeters then retracting, nullifying the need for toilet paper, that made me feel less uncomfortable about discussing fecal elimination issues.

Concerning prolapse, would astringents be of any interest (such as _Preparation H_ for humans)?

Larry


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2007)

Larry,

I have no idea if a medication like Preparation H would do anything. It might serve to temporarily shrink tissues like it does in people but again, it's temporary in nature. This is more like a hernia than anything else. A cortisone salve? Again, I don't know and it's probably because my mind set is that the only way to permanently solve the problem is surgery.

Not even a surgery can guarantee this won't come back again. the purse string sutures might slip and it has happened. A hen can squeeze already damaged tissues and slip the sutures that are supposed to hold everything in place. I can imagine a vet being very guarded as to a prognosis after a first surgery. I do know of one circumstance where in the second surgery after a failed one, the vet tied the intestines to the rib cage! This was in a macaw and he died after that second surgery, from what I don't know.

I think we notice this slight and normal protrusion of the colon in birds more often because by the time a bird reaches adulthood, the vent is covered over with feathers. It's happening but we don't see it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Concerning prolapse, would astringents be of any interest (such as Preparation H for humans)?


This is from Reti's thread titled "cloacal prolaps", posted after her pigeon had had surgery to repair the prolapse.



> I picked her up an took her home. She is fine, but I don't like how her vent looks. It is protruding a lot. Hope the sutures will hold.
> I* have to put preparation H on, twice a day *and hopefully she will look more "normal" soon.
> Andrew did an impressive dance for her and then started kissing her, so sweet.
> 
> Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's the link to Reti's thread mentioned above:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16428

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Concerning prolapse, would astringents be of any interest (such as _Preparation H_ for humans)?

Larry[/QUOTE]


Actually, that is (Preparation H) what my vet recommended when my Whitney had a prolaps. It has more antiinflammatory effects than KY Jelly or vaseline.

Reti


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi are you sure this isn't a cloacal papilloma? I would take the bird to a vet to make sure she knows what she's dealing with.

Laura


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2007)

Laura,
That's a good point. I think we are told something and jump on it as if it's the right diagnosis and then talk and talk about it. Wrong diagnosis=wrong discussion. rescueme, try and get your friend to take the bird over to a vet asap.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

EarthaPidge said:


> Hi are you sure this isn't a cloacal papilloma?
> 
> Laura


What is a cloacal papilloma in layman's terms?

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's a kind of tumor and it's actually mentioned somewhat in Reti's thread linked above. The easy way to determine if it's a papilloma is to paint it with ACV and see if it turns white. That's right out of the avian veterinary books.

Pidgey


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## rescueme (Jan 28, 2007)

Hello!

She is going to take her to the vet today or tomorrow as soon as she can get an appointment. It's not a complete prolapse, and it's apparently there all the time, not just after she poops. 

I did warn her that my fear was the bird would have trouble after laying eggs and could push it out entirely or become eggbound. 

You know the kind of people who want advice? She's the type. I have a few friends who like for me to show up, glance at them, say "take them to the vet". I don't know why they feel this need. It's as if I am the "guru" who knows when the vet must be called. I am not a vet. I don't play one on TV. Don't want to be a vet either. If it's a medical problem, I send them to the vet unless it's something simple that they can treat at home, in which case I explain to them how to do it and will help hold the pet while they do it. (Hey, they have to learn how to do things like trim nails, put eye ointment in, wrap a bandage!)

I know chickens, but not pigeons. If a chicken had a prolapsed cloaca, she would pretty much be euthanized. They don't do well, even after putting it back in. When I explained that, my friend freaked out and started sobbing and wanted to know what I would do if this pigeon was a goat. Put it back in and put a purse string stitch, but goats don't lay eggs. I then promised to come and ask on the Internet. 

Angela
Southern California


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the update. I hope that whatever is wrong can be righted. Please let us know the outcome.

Cynthia


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