# Diarrhea problem



## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

For just over a week now two of our guys have a green diarrhea problem. (It's watery, green and smells... different than usual) They've been guzzling water each day and I have to replace it daily instead of every other day or so. They do seem to be eating normally though. 

We thought it may have been diet related since we switched their seed - That was about 2 weeks ago. They had also been on Metronidazole for a week during that time for a potential Trich infection - this doesn't seem to have helped or caused it since it may have started just before this.

We only have two medications left here and no money for a vet visit so we need some help. We have Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim liquid (given in their water) and also Amoxicillin tablets.

Would either of those help, or is there another treatment that works better?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

BrianNAmy,

Probably need to get a little more specific about the diarrhea and the smell. There's too many things that can cause that, many of which are viral. The clinical name for excessive thirst is "polydipsia" and the clinical name for excessive urine is "polyuria." They usually go hand in hand.

Avian diarrhea is more complicated than in us because it's difficult to tell whether it is of enteric or urinary origin. This is because urine normally flows into the last portion of the intestines for water recovery. Of course, the pigeon can jettison an unfinished batch and it can make a puddle but that's not indicative of a disease process.

I assume you've got a puddle of greenish slurry indicating a mix of fecal and urinary components. Combined with the polydipsia, this may limit the possibilities but I believe that it includes the virals which we don't have many meds against and they're not often used. However, it can also be a kidney infection by more normal bacteria. 

The Bactrim (Trimethoprim/Sulfa) is a bacteriostatic which does not kill bacteria like a true antibiotic, but stops their replication. It's up to the pigeon's immune system to gain the upper hand at that point. I would put them on that one at least for now if it's all you've got. Amoxicillin doesn't have broad spectrum activity and I seem to remember that Bactrim isn't supposed to be used in combination with other medications.

Some Conditions Associated with the Polyuria/Polydipsia complex:

Dietary-induced polyuria
Excitement or nervousness
Apparent psychogenic polydipsia
Medications (corticosteroids,diuretics, progesterones)
Toxins (eg, gentamicin)
Nephrogenic diabetes insipidus
Diabetes insipidus
Diabetes mellitus
Renal glucosuria
Pigeons feeding squabs
Paramyxovirus (racing pigeons)
Liver disease
Renal disease
(Hypercalcemia?)
(Hyperadrenocorticism?)
(Hyperthyroidism?)
Hypervitaminosis D3
Elevated dietary sodium
Excess dietary protein
Excessive fruit consumption

The liver and renal diseases will include many different bacterial and viral possibilities, of course.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The bactrim will deal w/coccidiosis if that is what you have. Did you notice any of the usual signs for trich that one would see with an interior mouth inspection? Any deposits, of what nature, or general reddening/streaking of the gum area?

On what basis was the Flagyl being used?


The amoxicillin is used for ecoli infections, let me push a couple of links your way concerning amoxicillin:

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The Doctors Corner/diagnosis.htm#E. coli Infection

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5176&highlight=tetracycline

http://www.panoramalofts.com/gchf04.html

At any rate, if you can get a fecal float done locally w/out the office visit,
post the results this might be best. If all else fails and you see diminishing results in behavior, please post. I'm sure there are enuf "war chests" around to get you what you need asap.

Best,

fp


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

Thanks,

From researching, it looks like Coccidiosis is the culprit. The way they're acting (Appearing healthy but a bit listless) along with the discoloration and texture of their poop, as well as the polydipsia all seem to fit. And the have been under some stress considering their (and our) recent loss (Stewie was their husband and father) and a couple newcomers to the household.

I'll give them some of the Bactrim tomorrow and also start them on some Garlic treatment. I was wondering; has anyone tried Echinacea or Goldenseal on their birds with any success? I know the two of them act as an immunity boost for the short-term. I just read that mixing them in with lactulose should work for birds in general. Those should help their systems fight it along with the garlic... in theory.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Studies on birds have shown that Echinaccea works in boosting their immune system.
The dose is 1/4 of tablet (for human consumption) for three days.
In any case it won't harm them, so guess it is worth a try.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

It does sound like coccidiosis to me. I had never realized until recently on the forum that Bactrim treated this. We've always used either Amprol or Sulmet for the coccidia. Maggie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You can also treat with garlic soft gel capsule, as it is anti-bacterial, anti viral, as well as more. Probiotics in the food, and colloidal silver for any infection.

I have used it on a bird with cocci and it cleared it up in 5 days.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi BrianNAmy,

The echinacea is supposed to also have some anti-viral qualities as well for humans, or so one of my doctors told me. I've used the goldenseal for birds and it is also listed as anti-bacterial/protozoal. 

A link I posted earlier here for Sinornis Pharmacies seems to be getting pretty difficult to get products through. And a link in CT for European Pigeon Products
I also posted earlier, isn't functioning. The latter link would be for Gem Trikanox. It has Berberine (GG), Allicin, and Echinacosides. This product is listed as being effective for Canker, Coccidiosis and respiratory problems.


http://www.everythingforpets.com/gem_trikanox.pet/use.id.5.item_id.413.dept.134

Everything for pets has a good write up on it.

Just wish there were a reliable source in the states to purchase it through, 
maybe I'll just have to write the supply houses and ask them to carry it.

I also wish we had a dosage level for some of the herbal remedies. They are easy for me to get, but w/out dosage level I rely on the pre-mix products for pigeons. I wonder if you would know a rule of thumb standard on that?

fp


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

Found this site about home remedies and some dosage info. http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww24eii.htm

It's mostly for parrots but gives some size/dosage ratios as well.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi BrianNAmy,

That's a great link, got it bookmarked! I notice it lists cinnamon. Capped cinnamon is great for diarrhea, will even fix Montezuma's Revenge! I tried making a tea of it once by throwing loose into a pot of water on low, and when I came back the whole pot of water had turned into a gelatinous blob  . I thought maybe it was effective 'cause it "firmed" things up in there, but I notice on the list you provided it is credited w/mild anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties
as well.

Thanks for the link, this is very helpful!

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

BrianNAmy said:


> Found this site about home remedies and some dosage info. http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww24eii.htm
> 
> It's mostly for parrots but gives some size/dosage ratios as well.



Very helpful, indeed! Thank you


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

From hearing of the excessive thirst that tells me a Fever, & with the diarrhea problem ongoing that you probably have what us Racing Pigeon People just call Young Bird Sickness that is a Virus or Virus's. Other names for it like Adeno etc.etc., but when I had it 2 yrs. ago no antibiotics etc. helped, till another Racer told me of using Acidified Copper Sulfate 1/4 teaspoon "no more" PER GALLON for up to 7 day.! That tighted up the droppings & then I could use Electrolytes with Vitamins & Probiotics. The Copper sulfate cost $4 at most good feed stores. This worked for me........ I spent much $$$ trying to cure my birds for a Virus that was probably a waste of $$$. Try The Copper Sulfate if you can't afford a Vet...... Hap


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

BrianNAmy,

How are the birds in this thread doing? It's been over a week now.

Pidgey


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

*Better*

The coctail of everything looks like it worked (I also included a weeks worth of Echinacea - 400mg capsul spread over their food each day). It looks like it's cleared up and they're showing alot more energy.

Thanks for asking.


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