# Ad for pigeons for dog training



## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Found this ad on Craigslist,
Kurps


PIGEONS FOR TRAINING PHEASANT DOGS - $5 (Menomonie)

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Date: 2012-03-31, 3:04PM CDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?] 
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Pigeons for sale used to train pheasant dogs. Live or frozen. $5 a bird. Please call ahead of time so we can make sure we have enough birds for ya. For more information text or call Tucker at (715) 505-1191 Don't be afraid to leave a message. Thanks! 

•Location: Menomonie
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2933046092


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## elizaisling (Mar 28, 2012)

yuck  how terrible!


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

where the heck is Menomonie? but yeah craigs list should band that add...can you post the link to it, people on here will report it..


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

oh them adds are on the minesota craigs list every day, pepole even sell homers and rollers and stuff to dog trainers just to get rid of there over stock. retarded


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

horseart4u said:


> where the heck is Menomonie? but yeah craigs list should band that add...can you post the link to it, people on here will report it..


Its in Wi.
Kurps


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## BobinOK (Mar 20, 2012)

This is my first post and I'll probably end up flamed for it. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the advice they provide on this forum. I'm new to pigeons but I live near a person that has white ones he uses at weddings and such.

So, I'm training my first hunting dog. I have used primarily quail up to this point but I now have three pair of yellow homing pigeons that I hope will have babies so I can use them to train my dog. I think using the pigeons will be much more humane and cause no harm to them at all. We use bird launchers to train that are just cloth that hold the bird until the dog points. Then when the dog gets nervous and starts moving in on the bird, you hit the button, it tosses the bird into the air and it will fly home. It's steadiness training. Using quail, they get away when launched but then unfortunately, they will eventually die left on their own. Pen raised quail do not survive in the wild that long. So I think by using pigeons, it's a better situation and that's what they're trained to do, fly home, right? I treat all of my animals, birds, etc. very well. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs in addition to the birds and a couple of pet rabbits for my grandkids.

If some people are totally anti-hunting, I can understand that and it's their right but I think using homing pigeons to train a bird dog is the best of both worlds. And, I like my pigeons.

Bob


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## pygmypigeon98 (Aug 8, 2011)

That's disgusting of him.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

BobinOK said:


> This is my first post and I'll probably end up flamed for it. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the advice they provide on this forum. I'm new to pigeons but I live near a person that has white ones he uses at weddings and such.
> 
> So, I'm training my first hunting dog. I have used primarily quail up to this point but I now have three pair of yellow homing pigeons that I hope will have babies so I can use them to train my dog. I think using the pigeons will be much more humane and cause no harm to them at all. We use bird launchers to train that are just cloth that hold the bird until the dog points. Then when the dog gets nervous and starts moving in on the bird, you hit the button, it tosses the bird into the air and it will fly home. It's steadiness training. Using quail, they get away when launched but then unfortunately, they will eventually die left on their own. Pen raised quail do not survive in the wild that long. So I think by using pigeons, it's a better situation and that's what they're trained to do, fly home, right? I treat all of my animals, birds, etc. very well. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs in addition to the birds and a couple of pet rabbits for my grandkids.
> 
> ...


My Dad trained his pointers without any live birds, I have seen it is not necessary as Im sure the bird is pretty stressed from being pursued and launched, sounds like a crazy life to me for a bird to used that way, but then again my father also shot the wild doves and quail,but I guess they only had to live through it only once.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

The thing here is THIS, Bob....'dog training'...you automatically assume that this means pointers. (?)

Bob, it was a bit brave of you to come here and post, so I will give you that. 

I will also give that the methodology you describe is something which seems better than most; quite elaborate, actually. Although as SW mentions, probably not necessary and surely very alarming for the Pigeons. A predator need not get right up to them to cause great fear and stress....

With that said....I would like to point out that, when it comes to ads like this, you probably should get a bit more REAL. 90% of people looking for 'dog training Pigeons' are not training their Pointers.

For the ones who are, I can pretty much safely say they aren't gonna go to the expense of *buying and training Homers*.

Here's another 'method', sad to say far more common than your own : buy some dumb, dirty Pigeons for real cheap, clip their wings or tie up their feet, throw 'em in the yard and let yer' dogs go get 'em ! Atta boy.

This is a much more common scenario than the one you portray, I am sad to say. This is why we get up in arms about this stuff. It is indefensible.

So...while I appreciate how you have laid out your particular method...which may arguably be more humane than some (although again you fail to appreciate the stressful scenario you are putting them through)....I am wondering why you might be jumping to the defense of the guy who placed that ad ?

I mean...frozen or fresh.....how did they become frozen, exactly ? (Please don's reply "he says right there it's for training pheasant dogs"...that is called a C.Y.A.).

And you see...herein lies the problem. Most if not all folks who breed and sell Pigeons for dog training don't give a sh#t about the birds, and most who buy them have no problem leading them to a very grisly and cruel death. They just want cheap, live targets for their dogs...and they get some pleasure out of watching it happen.

Unlike you...they certainly do NOT like Pigeons.

Kurps....post the link to the ad and we will flag it down.....because it does actually violate CL policy.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BobinOK said:


> This is my first post and I'll probably end up flamed for it. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the advice they provide on this forum. I'm new to pigeons but I live near a person that has white ones he uses at weddings and such.
> 
> So, I'm training my first hunting dog. I have used primarily quail up to this point but I now have three pair of yellow homing pigeons that I hope will have babies so I can use them to train my dog. I think using the pigeons will be much more humane and cause no harm to them at all. We use bird launchers to train that are just cloth that hold the bird until the dog points. Then when the dog gets nervous and starts moving in on the bird, you hit the button, it tosses the bird into the air and it will fly home. It's steadiness training. Using quail, they get away when launched but then unfortunately, they will eventually die left on their own. Pen raised quail do not survive in the wild that long. So I think by using pigeons, it's a better situation and that's what they're trained to do, fly home, right? I treat all of my animals, birds, etc. very well. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs in addition to the birds and a couple of pet rabbits for my grandkids.
> 
> ...


As Jaye has said, 10/10 for having the courage to post what you do on a pro pigeon forum.
I must agree with Jaye that most people training dogs wont do it the way you do, and the pigeons die a horrific death.
Now, not to flame or attack you, but to give you some advice since you say you are new to pigeons.
If you are using young birds, they would have to be trained to home to the loft in the first place, otherwise, they will stay free & unaware how to forage, or avoid predators in the wild, will suffer the same outcome as the quail.
Pigeons are extremely succeptable to stress, and stress brings on illness. There are many bacteria that pigeons can carry (which are not dangerous to humans) and that while kept in check by diet, home conditions etc, will not affect the pigeon in many circumstances.
Unfortunately, stress can allow & create conditions where these bacteria can ad will multiply a hundred fold, and this can then causes the pigeon some very serious health problems that more than often they cannot handle. 
So while it may seem what you are doing is humane & safe, it is in fact the opposite.
Also, if any dog (or cat) actually gets near a pigeon & any saliva is transfered to its bloodstream (this does not have to be from a bite, even just on the feathers, pigeons preen themselves regularly) it can be a lethal & slow death for a bird.
In general, pigeons try to hide illness from predators & as the illness gets worse, the bird loses energy, sometimes to the stage that it cannot eat or digest food, and if the bacteria doesnt kill the bird first, it starves to death.

In all truthfull honesty, if you care anything for the birds (and the fact you keep other animals would suggest you you do) I would seriously think of the consequences for the birds & rethink your strategy.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

When my dad and I raised Springer Spaniels, we always trained with parts of the birds we had already hunted. Wings, tail feather dummy's, whole bird dummy's made of feathers over fabric or wooden dummy's, etc.. We started each puppie in finding/fetching drills with reward treats for each successful cast. The pups didn't get any scent training, but using pigeons does not really train dogs to hunt pheasant, quail, or other game birds by their scent per se.

For scent training, pups would be sent out with trained dogs several times to learn by watching. The dogs would be let loose in fields and "hunted" as they would during actual hunts, to find and flush birds, only the birds were not killed.

IMO - The "old way" of training was a little more time consuming, but no birds were injured, stressed, or killed during the actual training phase. At least the stress levels were kept to a minimum for any birds, compared to current pigeon training methods.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

almondman said:


> When my dad and I raised Springer Spaniels, we always trained with parts of the birds we had already hunted. Wings, tail feather dummy's, whole bird dummy's made of feathers over fabric or wooden dummy's, etc.. We started each puppie in finding/fetching drills with reward treats for each successful cast. The pups didn't get any scent training, but using pigeons does not really train dogs to hunt pheasant, quail, or other game birds by their scent per se.
> 
> For scent training, pups would be sent out with trained dogs several times to learn by watching. The dogs would be let loose in fields and "hunted" as they would during actual hunts, to find and flush birds, only the birds were not killed.
> 
> IMO - The "old way" of training was a little more time consuming, but no birds were injured, stressed, or killed during the actual training phase. At least the stress levels were kept to a minimum for any birds, compared to current pigeon training methods.


That is exactly how my Dad did it.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Pretty much old school, but it worked for us.


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## BobinOK (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks for the replies and logical discussion. There are a lot of things that I hadn't considered concerning my pigeons. My objective in using them was intended to keep from needlessly hurting or killing them during training. I appreciate the feedback and I now have a lot of things to consider before making the final decision. In reality, I probably don't even need any further training since my dog already points and holds fine.

Bob


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