# Mini fantails?...



## MaryOfExeter

I've heard a lot of people say they wished they could make actual fantailed doves, as in ringneck doves with fanned tails. Especially those who do the wedding releases and whatnot, who would like something as gorgeous as a fantail in a display cage, but complain that the size of them is just a tad too big.
So I was thinking yesterday, what if you were to put some of the smallest fantails you can find (I prefer Indians, but it seems people are wanting to make them bigger!), with figs? With some careful breeding, how easily do you think it could be done? What I imagine in my head, is like a tiny Satinette with a fanned tail  Looks very pretty in my head, with that cute zipper frill and all.

Wouldn't that be cool?


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## Yeasmin

That's very nice thought becky. Lol


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## Lovebirds

MaryOfExeter said:


> I've heard a lot of people say they wished they could make actual fantailed doves, as in ringneck doves with fanned tails. Especially those who do the wedding releases and whatnot, who would like something as gorgeous as a fantail in a display cage, but complain that the size of them is just a tad too big.
> So I was thinking yesterday, what if you were to put some of the smallest fantails you can find (I prefer Indians, but it seems people are wanting to make them bigger!), with figs? With some careful breeding, how easily do you think it could be done? What I imagine in my head, is like a tiny Satinette with a fanned tail  Looks very pretty in my head, with that cute zipper frill and all.
> 
> Wouldn't that be cool?


Go for it! I"ll take the first pair off of you..............LOL


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## starlinglover95

if you manage to breed them, i'll buy some young birdies from you Becky.


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## spirit wings

hey that is a nice idea, I think they may look a bit like an oriental roller just a bit smaller with cute small beaks....hey I just so happen to have a white fig hen without a mate....ummmmm, I would use the American fantail, just because I like the clean feet and I think they are a bit smaller than the indian....But you know you would have to come up with a name for your new breed.... Anyone have an American fantail cock they don't want.....lol....


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## MaryOfExeter

Bantam Fantails, LOL 
I like Indians because I like feathered feet and the crests. But I guess they could come in both clean legged and feathered -thinks-. I have a single male white Indian fantail but no figs


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## spirit wings

MaryOfExeter said:


> Bantam Fantails, LOL
> I like Indians because I like feathered feet and the crests. But I guess they could come in both clean legged and feathered -thinks-. I have a single male white Indian fantail but no figs


do you think the fantail would be too big for the fig hen? if not you can have her if you want to try it.


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## MaryOfExeter

Not sure if he'd be too big or not. Might try it later on but right now I think I have enough birds. And no shipping money


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## Big T

I have six white indian fantails. So you need a female Becky?


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## MaryOfExeter

Yeah I only have one pair of indians and their lonely son. For some reason finding white ones around here isn't easy. I like colors just fine but the pure whites are just beautiful!


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## tomyascaddy

i would be interested in these birds but im in the UK


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## loftkeeper10

Have You Heard Of The Mini Indian Fantail Club There Is One Recently Formed I Believe It Is Affilated With The Npa Another Idea


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## spirit wings

loftkeeper10 said:


> Have You Heard Of The Mini Indian Fantail Club There Is One Recently Formed I Believe It Is Affilated With The Npa Another Idea


what! I will have to google that.


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## MaryOfExeter

Holy cow! They're called Mindians, and the breed has been recognized by the NPA. http://com3.runboard.com/barizonapigeonfanciers.f7.t12
Nevermind about my experiment then  I want some of these!


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## spirit wings

MaryOfExeter said:


> Holy cow! They're called Mindians, and the breed has been recognized by the NPA. http://com3.runboard.com/barizonapigeonfanciers.f7.t12
> Nevermind about my experiment then  I want some of these!


ummm me too!..they would be great with my figs....little fantail pigeons! how cool...


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## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> Yeah I only have one pair of indians and their lonely son. For some reason finding white ones around here isn't easy. I like colors just fine but the pure whites are just beautiful!


I will tell you what I'll do. I have six. Two have now paired off, when I get two more paired off I'll give you the last two. Just give them a month, they are flirting now just too young to know.

Sound good,
Tony

PS, Mini fantails sound good but my focus is on frillbacks now. What a beautiful bird a frillback makes.


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## MaryOfExeter

Sounds good to me


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## Big T

Man that was a quick response!!! I'll keep in touch.


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## Guest

Big T said:


> Man that was a quick response!!! I'll keep in touch.


when you race pigeons you have to be quick lol


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## birds+me=happy

Not a whole big size difference, but they are cool. It's funny how you just thought of it and it pops right up.

Well......I got a diiferent challenge for ya; see if you can breed some white mookees. lol


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## risingstarfans

MaryOfExeter said:


> I've heard a lot of people say they wished they could make actual fantailed doves, as in ringneck doves with fanned tails. Especially those who do the wedding releases and whatnot, who would like something as gorgeous as a fantail in a display cage, but complain that the size of them is just a tad too big.
> So I was thinking yesterday, what if you were to put some of the smallest fantails you can find (I prefer Indians, but it seems people are wanting to make them bigger!), with figs? With some careful breeding, how easily do you think it could be done? What I imagine in my head, is like a tiny Satinette with a fanned tail  Looks very pretty in my head, with that cute zipper frill and all.
> 
> Wouldn't that be cool?


I gues you haven't heard, but there is a relatively new class of fantails called the "Mindian" which stands for mini=indian. severa; peop;e are working on its development.


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## birds+me=happy

Or, you know what could be the coolest bird ever!!! A bird with the feathers on it's feet, a fanned tail, one of those thingies on the back of thier head like mookees, a zipper frill, and a curly back. Now that bird would be stocked. lol


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## MaryOfExeter

Well, all you'd need are some indian fantails, some satinettes, and some frillbacks  That would be neat.


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## spirit wings

got a bit of info on the mindians, they are just so new right now there are only project birds maybe availible, they are half the size of the regular Indian fan, they are still working on perfecting them. I do not have alot of room for a big breedig project, but it may be fun to have a pair in the furture. here is what the email said.


Hi Michelle

Ahh, kind of a weird story but I was raising Indian Fantails, for years, 
and folks kept commenting on how large they had gotten over the years and I 
felt the same way.

Then one day I saved a frozen youngster, hand fed him and he matured as a 
very small Indian. Then I heard that another breeder in Northern California 
was breeding for smaller Indians, the opposite of what all the other 
breeders are doing, they want 20 ounce plus birds for exhibiting.

Anyway, I contacted this fellow and found out that were also a couple other 
breeders downsizing Indians so I contacted them all and we agreed to bring 
our birds to the Pageant, introduce them as Mindian Fantails, meet and 
start a Mindian Fantails club which I have done.

We now have a recognized breed club and have had our Standard recognized by 
the NPA, so we are on our way.

Now to the birds themselves. We have crossed small Indians with American 
Fantails, Russian Tumblers like the Tagenrogs and Kazaner's, to stabilize the 
small size.
We have been working on developing a 10 ounce miniature version of the 
Indian Fantail with a height of 7 inches.

Our efforts have resulted in two different types of Mindians, due to the 
Russian Tumblers, a delicate and a "bull" version, both being accepted. The 
main focus now is to eliminate neck shaking, achieve a 3/4 wrap on the tail 
and keep the long muffs.

We have a great website with tons of info and pictures. I am on there as 
"larryfantail". the website 
is:_http://com2.runboard.com/bminiatureindianfantailproject_ (http://com2.runboard.com/bminiatureindianfantailproject) 

As for availability, we are keeping the "real" Mindians for breeding stock 
and exhibiting as there are not very many around even though there about 
twenty breeders now, mostly on the West Coast. What is available are 
"project" birds, those used to create the Mindians which we have just started 
breeding to each other, so the project birds can be given to a breeder who 
wants to spend a year developing Mindians for their own breeding program.

Go to the website and check out the pictures, they are looking good after 
just five years of developing through these cross breedings.

Let me know what questions you may have.
Larry


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## Big T

Good info, but like you, I have not the time or space for a project. Maybe in five years I can get some mindians but for now, I'll stick to my whites.

Tony


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## fly_heart

realy it is nice to have indian fantails ... i have few fantails
they look wonderful ...


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## risingstarfans

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well, all you'd need are some indian fantails, some satinettes, and some frillbacks  That would be neat.


And about 15-20 years....


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## MaryOfExeter

Well, if people have the time they could do it!


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## darkfur

aren't they lovely? I guess if I want them in New Zealand I have to breed them myself (we have the world's most draconian import laws, for good reasons but difficult to live with sometimes)


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## Big T

darkfur said:


> aren't they lovely? I guess if I want them in New Zealand I have to breed them myself (we have the world's most draconian import laws, for good reasons but difficult to live with sometimes)


Start your own project, go to the website and post questions. If you can find the right project birds then you are on your way. You will also have the only mini in New Zealand. Something to think about.

Tony


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## benjajudy01

Becky, I would be the FIRST in Line to buy some if you do.


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## IndianFantail22

A club in Arizona got the whole thing rolling and they have some really nice mini's. At the Pageant show in California there was 16 shown


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## DannysDoos

Hey, I might be getting some minis in a few weeks! Pure white ones too!


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## conditionfreak

Typical size difference.


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## spirit wings

cool.. thank for that pic.. I have been wondering about the size..


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## dod rennie

When you see the little horses that have been bred in America nothing is imposible


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## MaryOfExeter

dod rennie said:


> When you see the little horses that have been bred in America nothing is imposible


Mini ponies are super cute 

When I posted this thread, I had no clue about Mindians. But I soon learned about them! Still wishing I had a pair or two.


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## conditionfreak

I have mini-horses. 

Miniature horses actually. They are different from ponies. Here is a link that I saved, that is the smallest miniature horse ever known (at birth). Cute as a button.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...orlds-smallest-horse-weighs-newborn-baby.html


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## dod rennie

I am not convinced but I am amazed there are mini fantails, does anyone know if there are mini Indian Fantails?


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## MaryOfExeter

dod rennie said:


> I am not convinced but I am amazed there are mini fantails, does anyone know if there are mini Indian Fantails?


Those are mini Indian fantails. That's why they were named Mindians.


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## Msfreebird

conditionfreak said:


> I have mini-horses.
> 
> Miniature horses actually. They are different from ponies. Here is a link that I saved, that is the smallest miniature horse ever known (at birth). Cute as a button.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...orlds-smallest-horse-weighs-newborn-baby.html


Ohhhh....Einstein  He was born not to far from me....an instant celebrity!
They ended up moving him to an undisclosed location in fear of his safety because of all the publicity


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## Msfreebird

I don't have any Indian Fantails, only American. Which breed is larger?
I have a teeny tiny black American Fantail (out of one of my pairs). He has perfect confirmation, But he's no bigger than a 'softball'! He/she's half the size of my other birds. Is there such a thing as 'mini American Fantails'? Would this bird be a good place to start if I tried to breed _down_ in size?
I'll try to get a picture of him/her next to the others.


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## MaryOfExeter

American Fantails are supposed to be small, I think. Mindians are supposed to be 7 inches tall. That's what they are breeding towards.

From the American Fantail standard, "If two birds are equal in general requirement points the smaller bird is preferred."


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## DannysDoos

I should be getting some Mindians soon. I don't know a lot about American fantails, but I think they're meant to be small. Is an American fantail basically the same as an Exhibition fantail?....


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## dod rennie

MaryOfExeter said:


> Those are mini Indian fantails. That's why they were named Mindians.


would they be smaller than a street pidgeon still not convinced


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## spirit wings

My American Fans are small..that is why I like them better than the Indian fans.. but both breeds are just beautiful.


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## dod rennie

How small are your fantails and do they look like indians


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## Msfreebird

dod rennie said:


> How small are your fantails and do they look like indians


American Fantails don't have a 'crest' or 'feathered feet and legs' like Indian Fantails.


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## MaryOfExeter

American fantails also hold their head on their backs, with their chest stuck out. Indians stand normally.


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## Msfreebird

MaryOfExeter said:


> American fantails also hold their head on their backs, with their chest stuck out. Indians stand normally.


Ya! That too


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## Csilla75

Come to think of something... there is a breed in Europe called "hungarian fantail" . They were "made" some 150 years ago by crossing english and indian fantails. I´m guessing they have the same size as the minians.... unfortunately they´re only recognized as a breed in Hungary. :-/ too bad´cause I think they´re gorgeous!

some links with pictures:
http://hevizigalamb.gportal.hu/gind...24brpbvat3fgg93q7rup5&pg=25555426&gid=2773584

http://chabo.mindenkilapja.hu/#/gallery/22278026/renderimages/17411085/pavagalamb


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## MaryOfExeter

They are pretty  I've seen a lot of indian/american crosses like that. Also Americans with crests. I'm surprised these weren't mentioned in the Encyclopedia of Breeds if they are that old.


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## Csilla75

MaryOfExeter said:


> They are pretty  I've seen a lot of indian/american crosses like that. Also Americans with crests. I'm surprised these weren't mentioned in the Encyclopedia of Breeds if they are that old.


maybe because they´re not recognized as a breed internationaly? 
even though they are "made" by crossing 2 breeds from the beginning they are considered as a breed now, not a crossing.


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## IndianFantail22

*Minis*

They are breeding mini indian fantails that are in the range of 8 to 10 oz. which is pretty small. They look just like a standard Indian fantail just alot smaller.


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## MaryOfExeter

Csilla75 said:


> maybe because they´re not recognized as a breed internationaly?
> even though they are "made" by crossing 2 breeds from the beginning they are considered as a breed now, not a crossing.


Perhaps. He did mention quite a few breeds that I never see anywhere, that are only in certain countries. But it would take years to gather info from all the breeds in the world.
Yes, as long as they are stabilized, they are their own breed.


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## Csilla75

MaryOfExeter said:


> Perhaps. He did mention quite a few breeds that I never see anywhere, that are only in certain countries. But it would take years to gather info from all the breeds in the world.
> Yes, as long as they are stabilized, they are their own breed.


Too pity not every breed is known everywhere, but U´re right, it would take a lot of time to gather info from them all. I know for example 3 swedish breeds which I don´t think the rest of the world knows of.  
or the roumanian bare-nacked dove. they look kinda funny:
http://www.porumbei.ro/rase-romanesti-porumbelul-gat-golas/

sorry for not sticking to the subject by the way........


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## MaryOfExeter

Oh gosh, Naked Necks are interesting looking birds. They were in the Encyclopedia  There's also Naked Neck chickens which look just as silly!

And it's fine. This thread is old and worn out by now  We established there was the Mindian breed a long time ago, so not much else left to say on that subject.


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## dod rennie

Msfreebird said:


> American Fantails don't have a 'crest' or 'feathered feet and legs' like Indian Fantails.


Are they like show fantails and hold there necks well back


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## dod rennie

MaryOfExeter said:


> American fantails also hold their head on their backs, with their chest stuck out. Indians stand normally.


I prefer indians I have never had them but they would be better at looking out for themselves I have owned show fantails in the past and they were a nightmare when you let them loose as I always do


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## DannysDoos

You also get Syrian Fantails and the old Thai Fantails...


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## dod rennie

tomyascaddy said:


> i would be interested in these birds but im in the UK


when you say tumblers do you mean rollers


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## Csilla75

DannysDoos said:


> You also get Syrian Fantails and the old Thai Fantails...


pictures pleeeease....


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## MaryOfExeter

dod rennie said:


> Are they like show fantails and hold there necks well back


Yes. Show Fantails, American Fantails - same bird, different name depending on where you live.




I've never seen any Syrian Fantails in person. My dad used to raise Thailand Fantails. Their muffs were as big as his hands (exaggeration I'm sure) and the tail was also huge. Otherwise, exact same as an Indian.


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## DannysDoos

Csilla75 said:


> pictures pleeeease....


Sorry, I don't have any pictures!

Syrian Fantails are longish birds with bodies more like that of a "normal" pigeon rather than that of a typical fantail. They have small - but long - tails which look like an upside-down 'V'.

The Thai Fantail looks somewhat like a cross between an Indian Fantail and a garden fantail or an exhibition fantail.


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## Colin

*mini fantails.*

Hi Becky,
First of all, let me say it is an honor for me to be speaking to you.
I have great admiration for the gift of understanding, you have of the subject of genetics, ( i am just begining to find my way around it ) and at your age, i am twice yours and then some, LOL. i hope that dosn't sound patronizing.
To your subject, i have long thought, that it would be great to have a number of miniture, toy, or petite breeds of fancy pigeons, as they do in dogs, horses cows etc.
Apart from how great they would be to have, i think it would also attract more people to the birds as a whole,because they could be kept in avairy type situations and even as house pets, like budgies and parakeets.
I guess what i am saying here is, the more people there are with pigeons the better off the birds will be.

Cheers

Colin. (the hobbit down under).http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif


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## dod rennie

I love the idea of small fancy breed pidgeons think of the savings in food and space, dove size would be ideal


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## dod rennie

DannysDoos said:


> Sorry, I don't have any pictures!
> 
> Syrian Fantails are longish birds with bodies more like that of a "normal" pigeon rather than that of a typical fantail. They have small - but long - tails which look like an upside-down 'V'.
> 
> The Thai Fantail looks somewhat like a cross between an Indian Fantail and a garden fantail or an exhibition fantail.


Hi Danny I am From Aberdeen is there anyone who keeps rollers up your way


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