# Twin City Concourse Gold Band Race



## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

*Gold Band Race*









Never too early to start preparing. 

"New This Year". The race is open to all AU members if their race survey is between 275 and 350 miles from Norfolk NE. They do not have to be a member of the Twin City Concourse. Must have a Unicon or Benzing Clock. 

Gold Band info:
http://www.twincityconcourse.us/2012 GOLD Band info.htm

Twin City Concourse:
http://www.twincityconcourse.us/


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> Never too early to start preparing. Also check out the Midwest Classic which can be found on the same site.
> 
> "New This Year". The race is open to all AU members if their race survey is between 275 and 350 miles from Norfolk NE. They do not have to be a member of the Twin City Concourse. Must have a Unicon or Benzing Clock.
> 
> ...



That is awesome I could handle my own birds I will try to get some club members into this!


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> That is awesome I could handle my own birds I will try to get some club members into this!


Yeah, its a great new rule! Looking forward to competitors from all over!


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

I'll be making a run at it.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If you win and your not a member of there club don't expect much. The president of my club was the over all winner of the Midwest Classic this year. the web site used to read that you got a trophy for winning your class. Well that didn't happen Bob is to get some pease of **** little plaque "witch he has not received yet" and the plaque is only for our class, he gets nothing for being first with over 3300 birds.

Its the biggest race in this part of the country and if you belong to there club it probably is a real big deal, if you don't they could care less. So if one of you win I'll bet they change the rules after the race and you wont win the $5 k.
Dave


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> If you win and your not a member of there club don't expect much. The president of my club was the over all winner of the Midwest Classic this year. the web site used to read that you got a trophy for winning your class. Well that didn't happen Bob is to get some pease of **** little plaque "witch he has not received yet" and the plaque is only for our class, he gets nothing for being first with over 3300 birds.
> 
> Its the biggest race in this part of the country and if you belong to there club it probably is a real big deal, if you don't they could care less. So if one of you win I'll bet they change the rules after the race and you wont win the $5 k.
> Dave


First off have you ever participated in the Midwest Classic Race?
Pete, there is no one club that runs the Midwest Classic Race. In fact, the TCC does not run the Midwest Classic Race. The ppl to contact are on this link here: http://midwesthpa.com/Midwest Information & Recap Sheet/2012MidwestInformationsheetfinalcopy.pdf

Perhaps, you should put up a new thread concerning the Midwest Classic Race. I would advise you to contact them first and get your facts straight.

Next time, make sure you have the right people, org, and or facts first before posting. For your information The Midwest Classic Race and The Gold Band Race are two different things run by two different organizations. Good luck!


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

SO this new rule where people can handle their own birds, is this due to shortage of membership in the combine? Besides payout for first place, what are the payouts for other positions? I read on the minnesota forum an asian fellow from the heartland federation took second place and the winnings was a disappointing $200, I mean if first place was $5000 that doesn't sound right. Well besides that, is there a handlers list? I didnt see one on the goldband link


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

warpaint said:


> SO this new rule where people can handle their own birds, is this due to shortage of membership in the combine? Besides payout for first place, what are the payouts for other positions? I read on the minnesota forum an asian fellow from the heartland federation took second place and the winnings was a disappointing $200, I mean if first place was $5000 that doesn't sound right. Well besides that, is there a handlers list? I didnt see one on the goldband link


I dont know the conversation preceding the new rule and why it was made, but who really cares why it was made, it gives more people who want to participate a chance to handle their birds and decisions like these are great for the sport.

As for the Asian guy, I dont want to comment. There are too many people trying to cause drama, and I dont want to be one of them. I just know what I know, and what the rules state is what I know. The rules state:
Prizes: 1st Place (5,000 Pts) there will be 25 paid places (contingent on band sales). 

Personal opinion, I would rather have it the way it is. Guarantee a decently high 1st prize pay out, and go from there based on sales. I'll buy a few $25 bands for a chance at 1st, regardless of what the other spots pay.

The handler list most likely wont be populated until much later since it is pretty far away. You can always give Damon a call though and ask.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> If you win and your not a member of there club don't expect much. The president of my club was the over all winner of the Midwest Classic this year. the web site used to read that you got a trophy for winning your class. Well that didn't happen Bob is to get some pease of **** little plaque "witch he has not received yet" and the plaque is only for our class, he gets nothing for being first with over 3300 birds.
> 
> Its the biggest race in this part of the country and if you belong to there club it probably is a real big deal, if you don't they could care less. So if one of you win I'll bet they change the rules after the race and you wont win the $5 k.
> Dave


As already stated, the Midwest Classic isnt run buy the TCC and consist of many different clubs. So your club bias statement doesnt make sense. Im sure Bob can handle it and knows who to call if he didnt receive something he should have. Also as already stated, the Midwest Classic is different than the Gold Band Race ran by different organizations.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

warpaint said:


> SO this new rule where people can handle their own birds, is this due to shortage of membership in the combine? Besides payout for first place, what are the payouts for other positions? I read on the minnesota forum an asian fellow from the heartland federation took second place and the winnings was a disappointing $200, I mean if first place was $5000 that doesn't sound right. Well besides that, is there a handlers list? I didnt see one on the goldband link


The TCC Gold Band needed a change and a different payout system. In the past, only TCC members can handle birds. However, the new rules now allow everyone within the radius to not only handle their own Gold Bands but also out of town Gold bands (unlimited). We felt that this change will open up the fun to more ppl.

The asian guy took 3rd and he had to split it with the handler. 
Last years Gold Band was limited to only TCC members. The payout was a guarantee $1000. The other places didn't get much in prize money because after all expenses, marketing, paying for a center for shipping, running the race, and then, another $1000 guarantee took out a large chunk of the pie. That's why the Gold Band Payout system needed restructure. 1st prize in 2012 is 5k based on 1000 bands sold. The new system will be up and made available soon via internet on the TCC website. Maybe a list of handlers will also be made available online (it may take some time though because the handler needs to purchase 4 gold bands of his/her own to handle out of area birds). The prize money for 2nd through 25th place will be much better this year however, everyone aims for 1st place not 2nd not 3rd.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

umaximus said:


> The TCC Gold Band needed a change and a different payout system. In the past, only TCC members can handle birds. However, the new rules now allow everyone within the radius to not only handle their own Gold Bands but also out of town Gold bands (unlimited). We felt that this change will open up the fun to more ppl.
> 
> The asian guy took 3rd and he had to split it with the handler.
> Last years Gold Band was limited to only TCC members. The payout was a guarantee $1000. The other places didn't get much in prize money because after all expenses to marketing and run the race and then, another $1000 guarantee took out a large chunk of the pie. That's why the Gold Band Payout system needed restructure. 1st prize in 2012 is 5k based on 1000 bands sold. The new system will be up and made available soon via internet on the TCC website. Maybe a list of handlers will also be made available online (it may take some time though because the handler needs to have 4 gold bands of his own to handle out of town birds). The prize money for 2nd through 25th place will be better this year however, everyone aims for 1st place not 2nd not 3rd.


Thanks for clearing that up!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

umaximus said:


> First off have you ever participated in the Midwest Classic Race?
> Pete, there is no one club that runs the Midwest Classic Race. In fact, the TCC does not run the Midwest Classic Race. The ppl to contact are on this link here: http://midwesthpa.com/Midwest Information & Recap Sheet/2012MidwestInformationsheetfinalcopy.pdf
> 
> Perhaps, you should put up a new thread concerning the Midwest Classic Race. I would advise you to contact them first and get your facts straight.
> ...


Yes I have flown the Classic for the past several years. If you read the first post it looked like he was promoting the classic.

And isn't Paul Rudolph a member of your club? and VP of the Classic


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> Yes I have flown the Classic for the past several years. If you read the first post it looked like he was promoting the classic.
> 
> And isn't Paul Rudolph a member of your club? and VP of the Classic


The Gold Band Race and Midwest Classic Race are apples and oranges.

The Midwest Classic Race is consist of pigeon fliers in all of the following states: Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. It is not run by a club or concourse. Midwest pigeon fliers have a choice if they want to fly the race or not. Yes, there are guys who help run the race. It is of their own choosing to take on the responsibilities. You can contact them through the link above. (http://midwesthpa.com/Midwest Info...tfinalcopy.pdf)

The Midwest Race is suppose to be fun for everyone in the Midwest. You should probably nominate yourself as a candidate to be on the board. It's good for all clubs/combines/concourses to be active and represent that way there's a balance.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

No they are not apples and oranges, not if they are run by the same crooks and hold special meetings after the race and change the way the rules read.

So if any of you fly the Gold Band race make sure you get a print out of the race and make sure they follow through with there end of things.
Dave


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

umaximus said:


> The asian guy took 3rd and he had to split it with the handler.
> Last years Gold Band was limited to only TCC members. The payout was a guarantee $1000. The other places didn't get much in prize money because after all expenses, marketing, paying for a center for shipping, running the race, and then, another $1000 guarantee took out a large chunk of the pie. That's why the Gold Band Payout system needed restructure. 1st prize in 2012 is 5k based on 1000 bands sold. The new system will be up and made available soon via internet on the TCC website. Maybe a list of handlers will also be made available online (it may take some time though because the handler needs to purchase 4 gold bands of his/her own to handle out of area birds). The prize money for 2nd through 25th place will be much better this year however, everyone aims for 1st place not 2nd not 3rd.


Well, we all strive for first but a first place bird doesn't necessarily mean its the best. It could probably just come in first the very last race while the second or third may be overall average winner etc. Now as for the birds, are the top winners going to be auction or are handlers keeping the birds? If I win I would like to get the bird back at auction or a piece of the auction money as to the handler getting a split and keeping the bird. As for Umaximus, are you the 4th place winner for last years race? There is a fellow in the mnfourms with similar user id. As for the Third place winner, I found out he uses this site as well, Koukou was the winner. Maybe other forum members can ask him on his thoughts about the race. I will consider getting some bands depending on who the handlers are and wait for further information in regards to this race.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> Yes I have flown the Classic for the past several years. If you read the first post it looked like he was promoting the classic.
> 
> And isn't Paul Rudolph a member of your club? and VP of the Classic


I said "also check out" the Midwest Classic, I dont see why thats such a problem and why its so hard for you to realize that separate organizations run the Gold Band Race and Midwest Classic. Why are you pointing out a VP of the classic, when the President of the classic is a member of a different club? So your saying, all these representatives from different states get together and hold secret meetings to change rules to their own benefit even though they arent from the same club? Time to put the tinfoil hat away.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Twin City Concourse Race Secretary & Web Site Designer Paul Rudolph. This is man is the problem. I emailed and called every one on the link above, Paul is the only one that could change the web page, and did. 

Yes they had the meeting to change things for their benefit. And it all comes down to a trophy, that they say coast too much, a trophy that was to be donated by Kaytee feed, not paid for by the classic.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Once Again Crazy Pete, the TCC did NOT run the Classic. Paul IS the webmaster for the TCC, BUT the Midwest Homing Pigeon Association who organizes the Midwest Classic race has a different webmaster, Done Riedel, check it out for yourself, here is the link:
http://www.midwesthpa.com/

Taken straight from the source it says:
"The Midwest HPA Appreciates Kaytee-Baymor of Chilton, WI. long standing tradition of donating an Award to each Class Winner in The Midwest National Classic Race."

The TCC just has link to the Rochester Racing Pigeon Club site for the Midwest Classic, here is the link:
http://www.rochesterracingpigeon.com/Home_Page.html

I dont know why you are so persistent with the idea that the Gold Band race, organized by the TCC, had anything to do with a Midwest Classic plaque organized by the Midwest Homing Pigeon Association.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> No they are not apples and oranges, not if they are run by the same crooks and hold special meetings after the race and change the way the rules read.
> 
> So if any of you fly the Gold Band race make sure you get a print out of the race and make sure they follow through with there end of things.
> Dave


If you don't like how things are run. Be a man about it and do something. 
Nominate your self for a position on the Midwest Classic Race board. Less talk more work.

I'm only a 3rd year flier. Yes, I'm not much more than a rookie but, even I know how to have some class.
For the past four months I've put a lot of time and work into this Gold Band Race and I'm not ready to let you, a nothing but talk slow me down. Good luck to you, Pete! Contact the Midwest Classic Race if you have a problem.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

warpaint said:


> Well, we all strive for first but a first place bird doesn't necessarily mean its the best. It could probably just come in first the very last race while the second or third may be overall average winner etc. Now as for the birds, are the top winners going to be auction or are handlers keeping the birds? If I win I would like to get the bird back at auction or a piece of the auction money as to the handler getting a split and keeping the bird. As for Umaximus, are you the 4th place winner for last years race? There is a fellow in the mnfourms with similar user id. As for the Third place winner, I found out he uses this site as well, Koukou was the winner. Maybe other forum members can ask him on his thoughts about the race. I will consider getting some bands depending on who the handlers are and wait for further information in regards to this race.


Any place from 1st to 25th is good.
The birds will not be auction off. According to the rules the breeder keep the bird. However, you can always work something with the handler. 

Yes, I did place 4th last year (2011) and so, that's why I have worked hard to make sure that this Gold Band is fun and pays out better.

maximus, is my username for the other forum. Sure thing! You can contact Kou 1st. I will tell you this much, he will be sending some GBs to my loft this year. Sounds good, warpaint.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

umaximus good luck with the Gold Band race. And I guess I'll just keep my opinion to myself and never send another bird to the classic.
Dave


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> umaximus good luck with the Gold Band race. And I guess I'll just keep my opinion to myself and never send another bird to the classic.
> Dave


Nothing wrong with you stating your opinion, but when you do, please have your facts straight instead of pointing fingers at people and organizations who are not involved. Paul is anything but a crook, and lends as much time and expertise as he can to promote the hobby. He is a stand up guy that would not change any rules to cheat anybody out of something they earned. And the TCC has nothing to do with the management of the Classic.


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## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

so handlers can handle there own birds, wouldn't that be unfair? Why not make it so that handler can't handle their own bird but other peoples. In a situation like this the handler can mob fly his or her own birds unless there is a band limit. Alot of skepticism when there are futuritys where one can handle their own birds especially in a money race.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> umaximus good luck with the Gold Band race. And I guess I'll just keep my opinion to myself and never send another bird to the classic.
> Dave


Pete, I would help you and to look deeper into the situation if I'm on the Midwest Classic Race board but, I'm not.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

dvtlegend said:


> so handlers can handle there own birds, wouldn't that be unfair? Why not make it so that handler can't handle their own bird but other peoples. In a situation like this the handler can mob fly his or her own birds unless there is a band limit. Alot of skepticism when there are futuritys where one can handle their own birds especially in a money race.


Handlers can handle their own birds. He/she have the option to have someone else handle the birds if he/she choose to.

The race is opened up for everyone within the 275-350mi radius.
If you are talking about unfair. I think it's unfair for the handlers to have to fly other ppl's birds for them. It should be a test of bird and man. Look, one can be a breeder or breeder and handler. 

No, there won't be a band limit. It's open to everyone. You choose how u want to fly. You take the risk if you buy 25 gold bands. You take the risk if choose to only buy 2 gold bands.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

LOL you guys got the Classic and Convention all mixed up! Midwest Convention is what he meant not the Midwest Classic "Topeka"! The Classic is for old birds! Yes I agree the classic was iffy due to weather that's why we released the next day "federation" thank goodness! What I'm sure he meant was the Midwest Convention hosted by Rochester which is ran by their own club and has nothing to do with Rudolph; the site is here http://www.rochesterracingpigeon.com/ 

This goldband isn't about the money. It's about winning it and support my local guys even if they have had issues in the past and that's it. And Heck yea I wanna win it! Last years format was $1000 for 1st 60/40 split. Only thing I don't agree on is handler keeping the birds, they should do auction but it's in the rules of the race that handlers can keep the birds. This year it's $25 with no guarantee of $5000 unless 1000 bands are sold....


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

koukoukou said:


> LOL you guys got the Classic and Convention all mixed up! Midwest Convention is what he meant not the Midwest Classic "Topeka"! The Classic is for old birds! Yes I agree the classic was iffy due to weather that's why we released the next day "federation" thank goodness! What I'm sure he meant was the Midwest Convention hosted by Rochester which is ran by their own club and has nothing to do with Rudolph; the site is here http://www.rochesterracingpigeon.com/
> 
> This goldband isn't about the money. It's about winning it and support my local guys even if they have had issues in the past and that's it. And Heck yea I wanna win it! Last years format was $1000 for 1st 60/40 split. Only thing I don't agree on is handler keeping the birds, they should do auction but it's in the rules of the race that handlers can keep the birds. This year it's $25 with no guarantee of $5000 unless 1000 bands are sold....


No, he knows what he is talking about. It's the Midwest Classic Race not the Midwest Convention. Don't get the Midwest Convention involve with this whole ordeal. The Midwest Convention is an AWESOME AWESOME race and they have nothing to do with this. I did some investigation for you, Pete. It took up some of my time but, that's ok.

*Saw your previous thread:* Mid West Classic http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/mid-west-classic-54715.html

*and here's the race results:*
http://midwesthpa.com/Midwest Final Race Reports/2011 Midwest Fina.htm

I called Paul Rudolph not that it's his fault and it is not but, because he is the our (TCC) race secretary. His words were, "The Mid West Classic Race is flown by guys from 15 states in the mid-west area. The race is broken into 4-5 different sections from 100 miles to 500 miles. I have no association with how the awards are given. The board of The Mid West Classic has a job to do and they have a measuring system of who deserves the win. There are guys on the 100mile (short end) section and guys on the 400 to 500mile section. There are guys on the east and some on the west. Some birds will get a tail wind while others will have a head wind. This guy Pete's club happens to be on the short end. Although it's not my job I will give the The Mid West Classic a call. Let Pete, know I'll look into this for him."

So, there we have it, ppl! Pete, if you may please text me your phone number. I'll have Paul contact you directly as to what he finds out. I hope this helps. I'm glad to I did a little investigation. Don't need to thank me. Perhaps, you can buy a few gold bands. LOL 
Just kidding, your call. LOL

Good luck!!!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

dvtlegend said:


> so handlers can handle there own birds, wouldn't that be unfair? Why not make it so that handler can't handle their own bird but other peoples. In a situation like this the handler can mob fly his or her own birds unless there is a band limit. Alot of skepticism when there are futuritys where one can handle their own birds especially in a money race.


I agree. There's just too much uncertainty when someone can handle their own birds. But above it all, I think people who want to handle their own birds do not want the 60/40 split. They'd rather have 100 of the winnings.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

LOL, you kidding? Handle your own birds. There is *too much uncertainty* when someone else handles your birds for you. It's part handler part bird. Plus it's more rewarding. Test out your handling skills.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> I agree. There's just too much uncertainty when someone can handle their own birds. But above it all, I think people who want to handle their own birds do not want the 60/40 split. They'd rather have 100 of the winnings.


Is it opposite day? lol! Why would you want someone else to handle your birds over handling them yourself The only way to be *certain* they are trained how you want them to be trained is to train them yourself.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

My only suggestion would be to let clubs box birds at thier own club and check in at the release point so people do not have to take their birds to Minnesota then back down to Nebraska the race results could be sent to you guys just a thought


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> My only suggestion would be to let clubs box birds at thier own club and check in at the release point so people do not have to take their birds to Minnesota then back down to Nebraska the race results could be sent to you guys just a thought


Im glad you brought that up, Sssyybfamloft. 
Thank you, for the suggestion! LOL. Apparently, Gold Band our rules are little vague. When we said, "open to all AU member if their race survey is between 275 and 350 miles". What we really meant to say was that the race is open to all AU members who are within the 275-350mile radius and who are either located in the Twincities or north, east, or west of the Twincities. 

Sorry, for the confusion. Even though some of you cannot be a handler you are more than welcome to be a breeder. We have some great pigeon fliers in the Minnesota Area. To find out who the handler's are please contact, the Gold Band Chairman, Damon Raze (763) 350-7237. Thank you, for your interest!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> Is it opposite day? lol! Why would you want someone else to handle your birds over handling them yourself The only way to be *certain* they are trained how you want them to be trained is to train them yourself.


That's what club races are for. Letting someone else handle your birds ensures that everything will be fair. If you can't trust someone else to handle your bird, then may as well not have a race at all. There are a few guys in my club that I would gladly let handle my birds. The bottom line is trust. If there is trust, then you'll have a successful race.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> That's what club races are for. Letting someone else handle your birds ensures that everything will be fair. If you can't trust someone else to handle your bird, then may as well not have a race at all. There are a few guys in my club that I would gladly let handle my birds. The bottom line is trust. If there is trust, then you'll have a successful race.


The Gold Band is the same as a club race, with monetary prizes and the option to handle outsiders birds. When you speak of "fair" so to speak, you are refering to one loft races where wind, direction, handler, etc do not play a large factor, just quality of birds. In the Gold Band race, you still have all these factors playing against you, and the handlers are also racing for the win, unlike a one loft.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

This is not a one loft race. Many times ppl overlook the handling aspect of racing pigeon. I'm sure we all can agree that handling plays a huge role in how well a bird performs. 
The race is opened up to everyone in or around town so that we all can have a little fun. $25 per bird is only so that there's a little money involve. 

As I said before this race is "part handler part bird". It rewards the handler, breeder, and bird.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> The Gold Band is the same as a club race, with monetary prizes and the option to handle outsiders birds. When you speak of "fair" so to speak, you are refering to one loft races where wind, direction, handler, etc do not play a large factor, just quality of birds. In the Gold Band race, you still have all these factors playing against you, and the handlers are also racing for the win, unlike a one loft.


I guess you misunderstood what I meant by "fair." My definition of "fair" does not involve the wind, loft, location, or how the sun decides to shine that day. My definition involves the how the handler handles the birds. Sure, the gold band race may be like club/combine/concourse races, but that's not what I meant.

And if everyone's just flying for kicks, then why not make the gold bands more inexpensive and just give out trophies? Obviously with at a gold band costing $25, there's more than a little bragging rights at stake.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Kal-El said:


> If you can't trust someone else to handle your bird, then may as well not have a race at all.


You meant if you can't handle birds.



Kal-El said:


> I guess you misunderstood what I meant by "fair." My definition of "fair" does not involve the wind, loft, location, or how the sun decides to shine that day. *My definition involves the how the handler handles the birds.* Sure, the gold band race may be like club/combine/concourse races, but that's not what I meant.
> 
> And if everyone's just flying for kicks, then why not make the gold bands more inexpensive and just give out trophies? Obviously with at a gold band costing $25, there's more than a little bragging rights at stake.



Okay, let's talk "how handler handles the birds".  
What is fair is you handle your own birds that way you won't have to worry about trusting anyone to do a good job taking care of the birds. The GB committee will do it's job to make sure that guys don't cheat. Come on, believe in your handling skills. Don't sell yourself short. Earn the win. It's cheap when other ppl handle your birds for you and win. $25 is less than a date.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

umaximus said:


> Okay, let's talk "how handler handles the birds".
> What is fair is you handle your own birds that way you won't have to worry about trusting anyone to do a good job taking care of the birds. The GB committee will do it's job to make sure that guys don't cheat. Come on, believe in your handling skills. Don't sell yourself short. Earn the win. It's cheap when other ppl handle your birds for you and win. $25 is less than a date.


With that statement it's hard to say if being an outsider, that the handler him self will take better care of his birds vs the birds he's handling to give him an edge on winning. Maybe have his bird's on a system vs the birds he's handling. 
Besides, this is more like a club race with outsiders par taking so outsiders would be at a disadvantage if lets say the gb committe decided to make sure one of their club members go home with the pot. Every thing else looks good but I just don't like the fact that handlers are handling their own birds especially with all gb committee being club or concourse members and are flyers and handlers themselves. If they weren't allowed to handle their own birds at all but enter to others to handle it would sound more reasonable.


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

warpaint said:


> With that statement it's hard to say if being an outsider, that the handler him self will take better care of his birds vs the birds he's handling to give him an edge on winning. Maybe have his bird's on a system vs the birds he's handling.
> Besides, this is more like a club race with outsiders par taking so outsiders would be at a disadvantage if lets say the gb committe decided to make sure one of their club members go home with the pot. Every thing else looks good but I just don't like the fact that handlers are handling their own birds especially with all gb committee being club or concourse members and are flyers and handlers themselves. If they weren't allowed to handle their own birds at all but enter to others to handle it would sound more reasonable.


This is not a club race. It's more like a semi-convention race.You have the option to pick the handler of your choice. Handlers will take care of out of area Gold Bands just a well as their own. Keep in mind they want to win just like anyone. The TCC don't get a special cut if a TCC member win 1st place.

I can talk all night but, stats don't lie.
The following link shows that handlers do a super job with out of town birds. 
http://www.twincityconcourse.us/Interesting Things.htm
Click on young bird (year), then click gold band (last 300mile, on the bottom right)

Anyone can win.

For more detail and accurate information, call the GB Chairman: Damon Raze, 763-350-7237


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't think you should be able to handle your own birds with $5000 up for grabs. My birds are tame I can stand at my trap while the birds come in, if you had your choise to let an out of area bird trap or your bird? Now with $5000 up for grabs are you sure every member of your club is honest, specialy with todays economy. JMO
Dave


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

There are a lot of good and honest fliers here. I know that I won't keep an out of town breeder's bird from trapping. Sometimes seconds is the difference from 1st to 2nd place. I won't risk it. 

For those who are interested in the race. You can contact the GB Chairman, Damon Raze, at 763-350-7237 for more detail information.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

umaximus said:


> You meant if you can't handle birds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't want to play Devil's Advocate, but like a couple of the guys said. If people were able to handle their own birds, would they really be apt to letting outsiders trap before their bird? I know you said you won't. But who's to say others will do the same? If $5K is at stake and you can handle your own birds, I don't think it'd be a real possibility. 

And you state that the GBC will do its job to ensure there is no cheating? How do you exactly go about that? Enligten us on the nuances of that system.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> I don't want to play Devil's Advocate, but like a couple of the guys said. If people were able to handle their own birds, would they really be apt to letting outsiders trap before their bird? I don't think it's a real possibility.
> 
> And you state that the GBC will do its job to ensure there is no cheating? How do you exactly go about that? Enligten us on the nuances of that system.


The handler is going to get money if someone elses birds trap on his clock, or if his own bird traps at his clock. The time it would take to stop someone elses bird from trapping and ensuring his own traps could easily cost him the 1st place. Im guessing the handler would want the 40% of 5000 (2000) compared to 40% of a few hundred, or whatever he might come in if he lags. People ARE going to handle their own birds, there is no point not to, its not a one loft. The people who are going to handle birds are going to be people who have the loft space and want more chances to win. The handler doesnt have to invest in gold bands that the breeder does (besides the 4 for his own birds), but can still return a large profit by training those birds.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well now umaximus if I send 2 birds will you handle them?
Dave


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Those in favor of handling their own birds, why don't you ask the AU why the convention race doesn't allow that.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

Itsounds to me like it should stay a club race because the rules make it a win win for club members


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

I looked at the listed site given but those out of towners who shipped birds shipped it to their good friends or friends of relations. The rest are just MN flyers of different clubs entering. 
As for handlers winning regardless of whose bird traps, noteriety and braggin rights do help sell pigeon especially if its the winning bird. So one would think of having his own bird go first. Another point would be that club or concourse wouldnt want to be defamed by having outsiders birds beat them on their home course.
*Regardless of all this questions and answers. Kevin, since there are no auctions etc. and you claim your honesty, If I sent you a bird and it wins in the money, would you or would you not give me the bird back is more of my concern.* I'm in it for the money whole heartly but more overall into having my name be on top over your area flyers. If I can retain my bird back at the end i'll enter in the race. 
I've heard the rumors and stories about the rivalry between federation and concourse, and more overall there isn't much good things on your side of the court you are in thats why I would like an honest person to handle my birds me being an outside flyer and with all the skepticism.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

All I gotta say is I wouldn't send a bird if it's gonna get rotated!!! Last year I did and found out some of the guys bought their own bands but once theirs are gone they don't give a crap about yours! I had 2 birds on rotation no communication or nothing had to find out myself by calling people to see if they knew where my birds were. So it's best to find out who flys well and will be 100% committed to win for you and your bird!!!! I guess the reason above is a good enough reason why handlers shouldn't be able to handle their own birds LOL. Communication is key. Last year a week before the GB race multiple guys sent their Goldbanders to the 300 which is a week before the GB's 300 and lost most of their teams. That's what happens to one of mine:-( you just don't send the bird to 2-300mile races in a row. It was a smash Only 37 of 376 birds made it back the week before the Goldband 300 and for the classic Outta 115 birds shipped only 2 made it on the day! These are the kinda decisions that have to be looked over by the committee unless already stated to the handlers what should happened to the goldband pigeons.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

This is the Prestigous Gold Band race of the Twin Cities Concourse and I will participate again but I'm not gonna rotate my birds lesson learned!!


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well now umaximus if I send 2 birds will you handle them?
> Dave





warpaint said:


> I looked at the listed site given but those out of towners who shipped birds shipped it to their good friends or friends of relations. The rest are just MN flyers of different clubs entering.
> As for handlers winning regardless of whose bird traps, noteriety and braggin rights do help sell pigeon especially if its the winning bird. So one would think of having his own bird go first. Another point would be that club or concourse wouldnt want to be defamed by having outsiders birds beat them on their home course.
> *Regardless of all this questions and answers. Kevin, since there are no auctions etc. and you claim your honesty, If I sent you a bird and it wins in the money, would you or would you not give me the bird back is more of my concern.* I'm in it for the money whole heartly but more overall into having my name be on top over your area flyers. If I can retain my bird back at the end i'll enter in the race.
> I've heard the rumors and stories about the rivalry between federation and concourse, and more overall there isn't much good things on your side of the court you are in thats why I would like an honest person to handle my birds me being an outside flyer and with all the skepticism.


Just PM you guys.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow a race where handlers who handles your bird will shipped birds that have paid their entry fee being sent on club races as well is foul play. So KouKou, why is it that you are partaking in this race again? Or is it just to have your name place at the top? Who do your reccomend as a handler as well and did your handler make a deal upon giving your bird back? IF he did, did he change his mind or gave it back?


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Honestly I just want to win the darn thing there are many good birds in this race. I would recommend Kevin Thao, Roger Goldberg, Jim Stehr, and if the United Guys Fly I would go with Flying Aces, TM loft, and Evaney Loft. There wasn't really a deal set forth for my bird back but after it started doing great since the first couple of races then I knew I couldn't get it bak anymore it ended with 5th champ bird with 5 races or something like that. Also in the rules it says handler keeps birds so I didn't care to ask really..and Jim was my handler and we also buy feed for from his it's all good. I offered quite a lot of money for it back but he loves it so he didn't want to but it's all good. Well per-arrange this year though.


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## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

Well, for those who want to be a handler, I found out some news, don't know of it to be true but as for know it looks like it. My friend is handling his own birds since he bought 4 bands and more than likely he would prefer to handle his own birds. Well, he has said that he will have to train the birds himself and he can only fly in the *300 main gold band race*. I would think it will suck to be a handler and not be able to ship along the concourses young bird race as all gold banded birds in the posession of TCC handler will be in it as training tosses. Lucky for my friend he flies with the federation so the birds will have their training tosses to get them ready for the gold band race. Since I have a handler now i will be placing 2 birds in his loft because I can trust him. Note on the other hand, it plain stupid on how a handler gets to keep 100% of winnings if their own bird comes in and because they are the handler themselves, also they still get to keep their own bird. While outsiders seems to lose it all except a 60% prize. It would be good to at least have an auction to auction the birds out and breeder can retain some $ from the sales as well as a chance to get his/her bird back. This race over all is all beneficial to the hosts of this race I guess. O well, I think it be nice to be on top of the sheets anyway spanking all the haters  .


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