# Wing eaten off a squeaker dove by rat



## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Ok, we are assuming a rat has eaten this dove's right wing almost completely off. I'm ashamed that this happened in my aviary, which is not as secure as I once thought. It probably shimmied in under the door.

And unfortunately it happened to Phoenix, the dove whose life I have saved already from a bad hatch, so I feel even worse.
My baby is currently standing up on a heating pad, in a hospital cage, all wrapped up and cleaned, after a good feeding of kaytee. And he fought me through all that! I'll be taking him to a friend for more treatment tonight.
He has had antibiotics and is coated in triple antibiotic. I've also been seed popping him and he drinks on his own and poops on his own.
So what are the odds that Phoenix will make it? What else should I do?

There is bone sticking out and my daughter says she will never eat chicken again.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm sorry to hear about Phoenix. 

Have you removed the remaining birds from the aviary?

Cindy


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2008)

If there is bone exposed, no matter how many antibiotics you give the bird, it's going to infect. To save him, a vet has to remove the wing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

He should make it. Go read this story:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16607

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

pigeonperson said:


> If there is bone exposed, no matter how many antibiotics you give the bird, it's going to infect. To save him, a vet has to remove the wing.


I agree with Fred. 
Cindy can give you some referrals, if you haven't established a relationship with a vet in your area that has experience in treating birds.
I'm so sorry for the baby. I can imagine how terrifying and painful the experience has been.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> * *So what are the odds that Phoenix will make it?
> 
> ** What else should I do?*


* None of us can give you can answer to that, Philodice.
Any suggestions are *only* speculation as we don't have the bird in hand. 

** The bird definitely does need to get to a vet for assessment.
Do you have one out your way?
If not Dr. Funk, in Mesa, has treated one of my birds as well as one of Kim's (KIPPY). 
Here's his number to have on hand. 480-833-7330.

Cindy


.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Oh good, I'll call Dr. Funk. I have somebody working on the aviary today.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> Oh good, *I'll call Dr. Funk*. I have somebody working on the aviary today.


From *my* experience with him, I'm confident that whatever he advises, will be right. 

It's possible the wing will need to be removed, but no one knows that for sure until an exam has taken place.

Wishing the best for the little dovey. 

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Philodice,

I am so sorry that this has happened, three times John and I have had rats invade our "rat proof " aviary, fortunately with no tragedies. 

The bird should survive, you have done everything that you could do and acted promptly.

The vet is the best person to make a decision about the protruding bone. I had a pigeon with a broken bone protruding from its wing that only needed to have the bone filed down and tucked in. Another just had the bone trimmed, because the bone was dead. One that had a leg bone protruding after losing a foot needed no treatment because the bone necrotised and crumbled. All three are alive and well today...in all three cases the decision on whether to treat or not and how to treat was made by a vet.

BTW, the rats that we found had squeezed in when they were babies and set up home in the aviary, so even if you secure all entry points please have a thorough search of the aviary for the rat (s). They flatten themselves behind and under nesting boxes.

Cynthia


Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

AZWhitefeather said:


> *None of us can give you can answer to that, Philodice.*
> Any suggestions are *only* speculation as we don't have the bird in hand.
> Cindy


Philodice,
I would like to clarify the above statement.
I was referring to having the wing removed, rather than if the bird would survive or not when I said we can't give an answer to that. Sorry for any confusion. 

Sometimes an injury looks worse than it is & sometimes it doesn't look as bad as it might be, so to give a 'firm' diagnosis of what has to be done before the injury has been properly examined, is misleading. 

Cindy



\


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Unie's still got that toe bone sticking out and it's been five years. I'd have thought that it'd rot off by now but it's hanging tough.

Pidgey


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

pigeonperson said:


> If there is bone exposed, no matter how many antibiotics you give the bird, it's going to infect. To save him, a vet has to remove the wing.


Pigeonperoson,

This is not necessarily so. I rescued a crow several years ago who had a compound fracture of the wing with quite a bit of bone sticking out. The bird had been that way for several days before I found him and was dehydrated and emaciated as well. I took him to the vet who cut the bone off a bit below the skin, put him on antibiotics and said he should recover if the infection had not gotten into the bone before treatment. He recovered and lived another two years. He was a pretty old crow to begin with. He went to a rehabber who was licensed to keep protected non flying birds.

I believe each case must be evaluated and treatment designed on an individual basis. 

Margaret


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, I can't add to anything others have said but just want to say, I'm sorry.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Philodice,

I am so sorry this happened. I know it was awful for you to fine Phoenix like that. Even in the best of aviaries, there is no way to guarentee 100% that a rat or mouse or other critter won't gain entry. It is heartbreaking when we have done everything we can think of to keep our birds safe.

Phoenix is young, well fed and healthy otherwise. He should have a good chance of recovering. Sending healing thoughts for him. Keep us updated after you see the vet with him.

Margaret


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

If the pigeon is not in shock, and seems ok then the chances are really high (that he'll live). 

Just some advise from a rat person. Rats love peanut butter, if you want to trap them i would say peanut butter and bread is the best at attracting rats. 

They are very determined, and will find a way back in, they can squeeze through a gap the size of a mans thumb.

They normally live in small family groups, where theres one theres usually a few more. 

Ive lost so many birds over the years to rats, so i bought a live trap (well stole it from my old boss) i keep that set 24-7 and just change the bait once a week. then i take them to the rubbish tip, to enjoy the rest of there lives. Its a pain in the but, because you usually dont know there are rats around untill its to late.

One of our lorikeets lost an eye in a fight with a rat. my sister nursed him back to health and now he wont leave her side her BF goes to give her a hug and the lori will attack him but thats another story for another day. 

Oh if your going to set a trap. try put it in a sheltered place you know rats walk, rats usually follow the same trails, and will usually not suss new things out if they feel uncomfortable.

Hope this helps in someway.
Cheers


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

If you need an Avian Vet closer to you, you may wish to call Dr. Burke at the Cornerstone Animal Hosp. The address is the SE corner of Ray and Val Vista. His number is (480) 857-9229. I like him A LOT and he also has pigeons! Unfortunately, I don't think he's open on the weekends.

Dr. B. was the vet who amputated half of Squeaker's wing. He performed surgery first to try and save the wing but it would not heal. Once half was removed, he healed quickly and his whole attitude changed! 

WISHING ALL THE BEST FOR PHOENIX!!

With Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

Oh the poor baby, I'm so sorry this happened. Sounds like the little thing is a fighter and has a strong will to live. I'm sure with the vets help all will be well.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the information on rats, Noisy Minor. I will try the bread and peanut butter. The rubbish tip sounds like an ideal location! In the UK we are into recycling centres, so rubbish tips have virtually disappeared. I take my trapped rats to the woods, close to a water supply. 

Cynthia


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry for your poor baby, Philodice. I sure hope he'll be okay. How old is he?


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

31 days. Weaning time, still squeaking. I didn't record his hatch date. 
edit: actually, I did. I celebrated it here on PT.

He is walking around, drinking by himself. He likes to struggle and is not pleased by the situation, won't just lay down on the heating pad like a good little injured bird at all. I guess I didn't want to put him into shock so I'm not rushing things, just doing a little at a time, which is why he didn't go to the vet straight away. Since earlier he is much more calm, and bright eyed. He's ready to go. You know doves, too much excitement can be the worst thing. and there is the money factor. Hubby's not too happy about that. I'm giving it serious consideration. I want to do the right thing and my rehabber friend has offered to take a look. If she says it's too complex for her (she's done hunting injury canadian geese as well as smaller injured birds!) it's straight to the vet we go.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Phil....you got lots of willing, helpful friends here....lots!!!


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

I'd be glad to send a little financial assist if needed. Please let me know. Had a little bantam hen a bunch of years ago, got stepped on by a horse, shattred upper wing. Poor little hen (her name was Hope) had to have wing amputated, didn't slow her down a bit.
Daryl


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Yay! I'm finally off work, time to rush home to Phoenix and take baby to the hospital.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Waiting anxiously for the update......if I'm due any good luck this week.....I'm sending it to Phoenix


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I come home to find baby Phoenix (ironic, a phoenix who will never rise) stuffing beak full of seeds, face first in the seed dish, then take a BIG drink of water. Basically, looking fine and hungry and cheerful like any just weaned squeaker. Considering I had to force feed kaytee this morning, this is a good sign. Also, wiggled out of the wrapping AGAIN. Awfully energetic for having one's arm EATEN yesterday. It isn't actively bleeding anymore, just ew. Want pics? *shudder* and the person I was calling hasn't answered the phone. Off to find more help.

Vets aren't answering the phone. The search continues.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do the picture from above.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> *Vets aren't answering the phone*. The search continues.


It's after hours. Most offices close at 5.

I think this is a 24 hour service.
Animal Referral & Emergency Center of AZ
1648 N. Country Club Dr.
Mesa
480-898-0001


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)




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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)




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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Poor, poor baby!! Prayers are with you both.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Philodice, 
Have you called the emergency center yet?


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

The pictures are heartbreaking. Poor, Poor Baby!!!! So glad to hear she is drinking and eating normally and in good spirits.

I'll pray for the best for her. 

What a pretty little baby. I am soooooooooo very sorry for her.

Regards,
Louise


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's almost an identical injury:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=144108&postcount=11

Pidgey


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

She's preening.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Ok, I've called a few places. Including those listed in this thread. They 
a. haven't answered
b. referred me to liberty wildlife even though I specified this was my pet bird.

I called liberty wildlife.
I was ridiculed, belittled, and called an animal abuser. They asked if I needed help putting the animal down. In other words, everything I've come to expect from trying to get help for a dove or pigeon. Then when I said I thought he will live, the man said, "Then I don't know what you are calling us for, you either need help or you don't. Are you playing some sort of game?"
And the dreaded, "Drop the bird off, we'll TAKE CARE of it." Meaning, (just put it in a little coffin and throw it over the fence we'll bury it with the rest of the flightless birds) right?
I've rarely had the pleasure of such unpleasant conversation. I made it clear that this would be still MY DOVE and I would want to give it a home and he made it seem like I was such a heartless WHOOWHOO that why the ()*&(& would I want the bird back?

(sob) I don't want to call any more jerks.

If I wanted the dove killed I could hire a hit-man that would be nicer than Bob from Liberty wildlife.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, that'll happen, been through it many, many times myself.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> Ok, I've called a few places. Including those listed in this thread. They
> a. haven't answered


Are you sure you dialed the right number for the Animal Referral & Emergency Center of AZ (480-898-0001)?

I was 99% sure they were open 24 hours so I just called & they answered on the first ring. I asked if they were open 24 hours & the gal said 'yes'.

Cindy


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Are you sure you dialed the right number for the Animal Referral & Emergency Center of AZ (480-898-0001)?
> 
> I was 99% sure they were open 24 hours so I just called & they answered on the first ring. I asked if they were open 24 hours & the gal said 'yes'.
> 
> Cindy


Yeah they answered. That's probably the same lady that referred me to "Liberty" Well, snotty does rhyme with liberty doesn't it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> Yeah they answered. That's probably the same lady that referred me to "Liberty" Well, snotty does rhyme with liberty doesn't it.


My experiene with the emergency center when I took my cat is was wonderful, so I called her back & explained that I had referred you to them & that you said they referred you to Liberty Wildlife. 

She said that was correct as they don't have a vet on staff any longer that treats birds. She said she had explained that to you.

I guess your only option at this point is to call either Dr Funk or Dr Burke in the morning, because the little dovey definitely needs to be seen by a vet. 

Do you have her isolated in a carrier or small cage?

Cindy


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh I'm soooo sorry. What a beautiful little bird. I pray that she will be alright.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Like you don't feel bad enough about it happening, and then to talk to some jerk who is as unhelpful as possible.  Shame on him! I'm really sorry you and Phoenix are going through this. Rats can squeeze through any opening that they can fit their head through, is the general rule. Like someone said, it's practically impossible to completely rat-proof an aviary, as they can get into such tiny holes. The peanut butter and live animal trap sounds like a good plan. I hope things go better for you both! You will be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hey, Philodice!

That's a nasty looking injury, but it doesn't have to be and probably won't be fatal to the lovely little dove. You just need to get your chin up a bit and get going on treatment. 

Get the little one inside as with all that exposed skin and bone the flys are going to be at it and then you will have maggots. Though the little one doesn't appear to be in shock, make sure s/he is plenty warm.

If you have antiobiotics such as Enrofloxacin or Flagyl (Metronidazole) then get the little dove started on them. Get some antibiotic cream over the denuded area and on the bone tips. Wrap the whole thing loosely in gauze. Truly, this little dove can survive this .. you've just gotta help a bit. I'm not generally a fan of slathering a lot of antibiotic cream, but I would do that for tonight and then see how things are tomorrow. 

If you have a section in your e-book about wet to dry dressing of wounds as well as dry dressing .. go have a read. If not then go here and have a look: http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2003/november/Cousquer/Avian-Wound-Management-Part-2.html

Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Oh Philodice, I'm so sorry. That poor little dove looks so miserable and then you got the worst possible kind of runaround while trying to help him. I hope and pray it goes better from here on out. He's obviously a fighter. 

-Cathy


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

little bird said:


> Poor, poor baby!! our Elaina was no where near that chewed up. Prayers are with you both.


Funny you named your bird Elaina, that's my name and same spelling. I've never met anyone who uses that spelling. Too cool!


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

Oh Philodice those pictures just break my heart! The poor poor baby. I sure hope you can find a vet to treat Phoenix soon.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I have EMT, CNA, and first aid certifications. I have a degree in physiology, I have spent shifts in an emergency room. My father was an army field medic, and every time somebody screamed in his earshot I have been treated to a close up example of emergency care. On our cats, birds, and guinea pigs over the years also. I have been treating the bird. Phoenix is on antibiotics, wrapped, in a hospital cage with a heating pad and food and water in very small dishes so she can reach in. I'm giving her the best care I can, and when I reach out for help...!!

I could have explained to Bob why, like I KNOW how doves can panic in the hands of a stranger and just die right there before they operate, and that's why I waited to make sure Phoenix was stabilized and not likely to go into arrest. Also, same reason I didn't want to "drop her off". I am not interested in putting my baby into the hands of a stranger. When I left my stepson at the hospital for care of a broken femur, he came home with bedsores. I was HOT! And you know who gave him such phenomenal care that his Doctor told me there was no equal to it at the hospital, and that it made the boy heal extra fast? That was me that checked him out a few days early and pampered his jerky behind. Well you know 11 year olds. I must have spent $100 on fresh bandaging supplies for his pins and changed it 3 times a day.
I'm not a qualified vet, but I have some definite life saves under my belt. That isn't the direction I ultimately took my life, because I have fibromyalgia, but that's another story.
I felt I could do better than dropping a bird off to have it pts, and the proof is in the pudding. I've taken Phoenix to a friend that is a certified animal rescue, the same one that helped patched up my rescue chickens, because I have a relationship with her and I know that neither of us will get mistreated there.
I'll give you updates when I know. She wants me there tonight when the main operation happens, because she understands about doves. I never realized how important a relationship with a vet really was. Now I will find one and start a relationship but this is obviously not a good time.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh Philodice,

I am sooooo sorry poor Phoenix and you are going through this! I'm saying prayers for him, you, and your friend that is helping out - and will of course be watching this thread for updates.

Please let me know if you need anything that I can send you... I sent you a PM as well - so please do let me know.

{{{comforting hugs}}} to you and {{{smooches}}} for Phoenix.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I know this all is incredibly painful for you on many levels. I know because I have been through a similar experience, the exception being my bird was dead. I am diligent about doing everything I can think of to keep my birds safe and when that happened here, I felt guilty because I thought I not have done enough. I didn't even know rats were around and I didn't know they would kill rats. The pain of it was overwhelming for days.
Fortunately, Phoenix is still alive.
Many times, it's just this kind of emergency experience that does help us form a relationship with a vet. I'm not denying that there are a ton of inappropriate/mean vets out there but there really are some wonderful and kind ones too. Vets that care about the animal and recovery more than they care about making money or their own ego. I hear what you say about your rehabber friend and the trust level but still. I would encourage you to take Phoenix to a vet that treats birds. In this case, there are some vets in your area that are highly recommended by other members.
I'm thinking of you and I'm really so very sorry this has happened. Knowing what I know about birds, I know little Phoenix is hiding his pain as best he can.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

GREAT SUCCESS!

Called in a few favors today! Connie had Phoenix and evaluated the wounds while I was at work. Turns out he has a large gash just through the skin on his thigh as well. She called her old vet, who also retired some years ago. So we go to former Dr. Felitha's house and have to buy all new supplies for the operation. I get to hold Phoenix. Baby only seemed about to panic once, after the gash was stitched, and we gave him a break.
Then more wound wash, and tackled the shoulder. Trimmed the bone, pulled the wound closed with more stitches, pulled skin into place. Lovely. I almost pass out. No blood lost through the entire operation. Phoenix is now back at home, resting on the warm towels, in a towel covered hospital cage, full of lovely antibiotics. I think he is sleeping. Felitha thinks it wasn't a rat at all but a cat that tried pulling the wing off through the 3/4 inch gap between the door and the door frame that developed after a hard rain a few days/weeks ago.

Good lord, I almost pass out just talking about it!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Great news, Philodice! Healing vibes to your little one! Please keep us posted!

Terry


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Bravo, Philodice, Bravo!!! Sending all my prayers tonight for Phoenix.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I feel so much better! Now I'm going to get some chamomile tea. The weight off my mind feels like a elephant just left the room. And I didn't get yelled at by any more jerks either. Now I know why some people lie to rehabbers when they drop off animals. If I wanted a guilt trip, I'd by a two-way ticket on the MOM EXPRESS.
It's all up to Phoenix now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I am praying for a fast recovery with no complications for Phoenix.


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

Yippie!! Great news. I'm so happy the baby is alright.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

So glad little Phoenix got patched up and is back at home. The thought of what this little one went through sends shivvers up my spine. What a nightmare for you too Phil. I pray for a speedy recovery for your little Phoenix.

Regards,
Louise


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am SO glad that you found someone that could help . I am sure that she will be fine now. Whether it was a rat or a cat, you both went through a terrible ordeal.

Even though everyone at my veterinary surgery is compassionate and they will telephone me rather than the dreaded RSPCA when they have a pigeon in mI am terrified of leaving one there without taking precautions When Delorious had to be left for an X=Ray I taped a sheeet of paper to the cat carrier and on it I wrote :

*DELORIOUS - HANDLE WITH CARE - ESCAPOLOGIST!!!! TO BE X-rayed BY ROB ONLY. NO ANAESTHESIA! NO SURGERY! NO EUTHANASIA!*

Better to be safe that sorry. 

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Sending you special *GET WELL* wishes, sweet Phoenix. 

Mikko, Pij'ette, Rae Charles, Sadie, Sam, Malio, Beautiful, Blueberry, Dolly, Dumpling & Cindy


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm taking a hands off approach for today, don't want to rip out any stitches. Of course he's pecked most of the bandages off already but I'll just spray it with the silver spray. I'm sure it's infected, or at least I'm assuming it's infected because of the cat bite, so we've got antibiotic in the water. I'll not touch him unless absolutely required since he's eating and drinking, and I'll inspect visually several times a day.
Phoenix is preening right now and looks happier than he did in those pictures from yesterday.
I am afraid to pick him up because he tries to use his 'wings' to balance whenever I move him, and that sort of struggling would be counterproductive.
So I'm stuck watching and worrying from outside the cage. He wouldn't drink his medicine from the dropper like he did on the first day, so that's why it's in his water dish.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Wonderful news Philodice! Let us know how Phoenix is doing today. I'll continue including him/her (and you!) in my prayers for a quick/as painless as possible recovery. Thank goodness you kept calling around!!


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

A job well done Philodice. I hope you put a shot of something strong in that cup of camomile. You have covered all the bases from the get go and Phoenix has every chance of healing up just fine. 

Margaret


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so glad Phoenix got patched up and is on the mend. What an ordeal. Could well have been a cat that tried to pull him out. A raccoon would do that too, but I don't know if you have them in your area. Ugh. I'm just so glad he's doing better.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> I'm so glad Phoenix got patched up and is on the mend. What an ordeal. Could well have been a cat that tried to pull him out. A raccoon would do that too, but I don't know if you have them in your area. Ugh. I'm just so glad he's doing better.



You know Cathy and Phil, I'd bet money it was a raccoon. They are notorious for doing stuff like that.

Phil, can't tell you how happy I am that this ordeal is over and only the recovery remains. I will certainly remember this baby in my prayers also.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

But my back yard is mobbed by wild cats. They keep the rat and mouse population way down.

Anyway, ya'll hungry for pics? Better not be hungry for anything else.









Stitched up, up close and personal.










Three views for your the price of one. (ick)
You can see the pain killer spray looks wet on him, he was looking terrible so I sprayed him down.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

And here is a video. He looks disturbed because I just cleaned the cage and had to move him around, which he isn't into being held right now. So you don't get to see him looking healthy and all. Sorry! (poor thing)

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f...cinjury/?action=view&current=injuredvideo.flv

Oh goodness, I just realized you can see the stitches I placed myself on his thigh. Retired doctor we saw had a touch of palsey. Oh yeah I almost fainted twice. It's hard even typing about it. The stitches are white so just blend in but you can see the gash which took 3 stitches to close. Can you say I totally don't recommend doing that to anyone ever? It was as bad for me as holding a little girl down on an op table in the Safford ER for a hand injury.
Just my luck I try going out for medicine, to find I am squeamish and afraid of needles.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> You can see the pain killer spray looks wet on him, *he was looking terrible* so I sprayed him down.


The poor thing defnitely isn't looking any too chipper. 



philodice said:


> And here is a video. *He looks disturbed* because I just cleaned the cage and had to move him around, which he isn't into being held right now. *So you don't get to see him looking healthy and all.* Sorry! (poor thing)


I'm sure he *isn't* in the mood for photos right now. 
Maybe it would be best to hold off until he *is* feeling better. 

Cindy


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Gosh, this poor bird must have suffered so much! 

Does he pick on his wounds?

Meanhile, we are sending healing vibes to the little one.. Hope he recovers soon.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

The pictures of little Phoenix are heart-wrenching. That poor baby has been through so much. 

I truly pray for a speedy recovery for this little one.

Can't wait to see pictures of her when she is all healed up and well.

Regards,
Louise


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I can hardly wait to see pics of her when she is past this and well again. My prayers are with you both.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

No, Phoenix is not picking the wounds. I took the pictures from outside the cage without touching him. I am not doing anything to disturb or unbalance the bird. I did get a tiny pill of garlic and neem down his throat. Phoenix is not a fan of neem at all but you can see from the before and after pics that the medicines are working. Note the angry red in the first pics and the more healthy pink skin in the pics on this page. I'm very pleased with the progress. Phoenix is still eating on his own and drinking his medicine water, and preening his good side of feathers. I believe feathers are growing back!

He hates being wrapped and fidgets so much, that I've decided he shouldn't waste his energy struggling against bandages and me. That's why the doctor (who is brilliant!) introduced me to the 'hands off' approach. All treatments are placed in food and water, since Phoenix is happily dosing himself that way, and wounds monitored by observation only. The camera is a valuable tool here, since I can zoom in as close as I wish and he doesn't have to 'fight the evil hand'. I have put netting, towels, and a natural fly repellent around the cage to prevent intrusion by insects.


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

philodice said:


> Ok, I've called a few places. Including those listed in this thread. They
> a. haven't answered
> b. referred me to liberty wildlife even though I specified this was my pet bird.
> 
> ...


Can i ask what is this Liberty wildlife's job?????
This sort of heartless responce, is compleatly unacceptable. I would write a letter addressed to the managment, detailing the way you were alienated, and the lack of compassion old Bob showed. this Bob guy shouldnt be working i a wildlife centre, or have anything to do with customer service, as he clearly dosnt have an social skills. 
Im not sure what Liberty wildlife's goals are. or what animals they treat, however i do know, that how you were treated was compleatly out of line. and lets just say, if i were in charge old bob would be standing in the unemployment line, with a boot up his a***.

Now that thats said, im really glad little pheonix is doen well. Keep us updated with lots more photos.

Oh and im glad you all liked my rat info, hope it helps in someway.


Cheers


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

Noisy_minor said:


> Can i ask what is this Liberty wildlife's job?????
> This sort of heartless responce, is compleatly unacceptable. I would write a letter addressed to the managment, detailing the way you were alienated, and the lack of compassion old Bob showed. this Bob guy shouldnt be working i a wildlife centre, or have anything to do with customer service, as he clearly dosnt have an social skills.
> Im not sure what Liberty wildlife's goals are. or what animals they treat, however i do know, that how you were treated was compleatly out of line. and lets just say, if i were in charge old bob would be standing in the unemployment line, with a boot up his a***.
> 
> ...


I agree Noisy, she should write, call or something. Anything. the response she got was unacceptable. If they didn't/couldn't help her Phoenix they should have at least given her to some numbers to places they thought would. How can a person so heartless be working at a place with animals? And Bob had the nerve to call you an animal abuser for trying to help your bird 

But I am glad to see that Phoenix is doing better. Poor baby to have to go through so much in it's short life time. Phoenix is very lucky to have you.


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

AND! here is the link from their website with everyone's contact information at Liberty Wildlife, the director should at least be made aware at how you were treated.
http://www.libertywildlife.org/about_contact_us.asp


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I am so glad to hear little Phoenix is recovering and is through the major battle! I know how you feel about sewing. . .when I first had pigeons and lived for awhile away from town, one night we had a pigeon (they lived in the house) land on one of the rat's cages. What followed was a horrible experience I have since learned to avoid, of course. It was late at night on a weekend and with the pigeon bleeding all over, I had little choice but to have my roommate hold him while I sterilized needle and thread and sewed him up. This from someone who is so needle-phobic, that just talking about shots could make me light headed then!!  Once I got down to it, it wasn't so horrible, and as it had to be done I just did it and survived. The pigeon turned out just fine and I got the correct sewing materials to have on hand, just in case. . .and used them a few other times, too! 

Of course I would never recommend anyone doing this, my case was an emergency and I didn't have any other option.  So a BIG KUDOS to you for pulling through and being able to do the dirty work, I know it is very difficult, especially when you're working on someone you love like little Phoenix!


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## feathered_love (Jul 22, 2008)

maryjane said:


> I am so glad to hear little Phoenix is recovering and is through the major battle! I know how you feel about sewing. . .when I first had pigeons and lived for awhile away from town, one night we had a pigeon (they lived in the house) land on one of the rat's cages. What followed was a horrible experience I have since learned to avoid, of course. It was late at night on a weekend and with the pigeon bleeding all over, I had little choice but to have my roommate hold him while I sterilized needle and thread and sewed him up. This from someone who is so needle-phobic, that just talking about shots could make me light headed then!!  Once I got down to it, it wasn't so horrible, and as it had to be done I just did it and survived. The pigeon turned out just fine and I got the correct sewing materials to have on hand, just in case. . .and used them a few other times, too!
> 
> Of course I would never recommend anyone doing this, my case was an emergency and I didn't have any other option.  So a BIG KUDOS to you for pulling through and being able to do the dirty work, I know it is very difficult, especially when you're working on someone you love like little Phoenix!


Oh yikes MaryJane, that must have been nerve racking! It's amazing what we can do during an emergency though.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

That poor, poor dove.  It makes me hurt inside just to look at the photos...don't dare look at the video. I'm glad he's able to eat and drink and so can be medicated "hands-off." Good thinking to protect against insects, too.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I mostly posted the pictures and video to get opinions, to show the before and after, and so you could see I have proof that Phoenix is standing up on his own for the good news.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Philo,

He is looking very good. In a couple of weeks he will be recovered pretty well. Of course the healing will go on for some time, but he is over the hump. Now it is just his body repairing from the insult of the injury and treatment. You did and are doing a terrific job with him

Margaret


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

What a horrible thing to happen to you and Phoenix! Bless you for taking such good care of the poor little baby. I'm shocked at the wildlife rescue's response, I thought people there were much more helpful and humane. I hope and pray your little Phoenix will make a speedy recovery. I wish there were more people like you all in the world.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Phoenix update! The little feather head had a bath to remove some of the grease from the antibiotic cream. The retired vet suggested that he wasn't able to keep warm by himself very well and I should soap him up and rinse him down carefully. Phoenix seemed to enjoy the warm water cleaning off the outside of his wounds and feathers, when I noticed that the stitches in his side had untied themselves. Probably the grease. Also that the gash was already healed half way. Awesome!
So the decision was to use liquid stitches. Wound glue. Medical super glue, basically. A quick dab closed him up just right.

The arm is still tightly closed and looking better. And doc was right, although the feathers aren't perfect he does look warmer and less pathetic.

Phoenix seems to know that if he bobs his head down like he is drinking I will move the water to him. He bobs his head and looks at the water, if I'm nearby the cage. It seems like sometimes he just wants a drink but doesn't want to walk the five inches to the water dish. 
Is he like a sick human, "Get that for me, Mom...I"m too tired to walk over there"?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks for the encouraging update, Philodice. Interesting about the liquid stitches--I hadn't heard of it being used on birds, but I'm glad to know it works. My teenage son accidentally closed my index finger in the car door last month and the ER doc closed the wounds with liquid stitches. Anyway, I'm glad little Phoenix is getting better.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Another phoenix update!
This time the pictures are much cuter.



















And for the die-hard medical curious to watch the amazing transformation, also for posterity, here is the not so nice picture.









I hope these pictures will help people with missing winged birds take heart in the future, and not give up!

Current medications:
Colloidal silver in drinking water, 3 drops. He is now off all other medications. The neem oil was too much of a fight and got all over him, making the bird smell like a greasy, feathery, athlete's foot. So to date he has only had one drop of neem oil, some garlic, and the antibiotics I front loaded on the first two days. (It was an emergency, I'd ended up shaving down some human pills into an eyedropper of water, and used dosages found on this site somewhere. Vet said given the circumstances that it was fine.)


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/FurrDeFaux/graphicinjury/?action=view&current=P8020010.flv

This video is rated 'E' for everyone and is cute, of Phoenix with his? good side to the camera, eating seeds with River, his sister?.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

It's heartwarming to see how much better he is!! Bless his little heart. I'm so glad.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

AAAH!
The black crust of dead stuff FELL OFF. The stitches didn't come out, but what we stitched FELL OFF. Now I can see the bone again and it is surrounded by pink healing flesh and like, mutant skin that looks like it pushed the crust off, just so it could 'blob over'.
I had a neighbor look at it because she works in a prosthetic office and has seen a lot of stumps.

She says the new skin pushed off the crust because it was in the way, and it wants to grow over and close. She says it looks like a classic 'bone stump' now and to leave it alone. I washed it with silver with a drop of NEEM mixed in to keep insects away. It does look like, I have an uncle that lost a thumb. It looks like after it started to 'grow back' and heal. nasty.

The 2 inch gash in Phoenix's side that I superglued is down to a 1 cm long 'divet' in his skin, not even a hole anymore. I want to make it clear, DO NOT superglue deep wounds. This was only a skin tear that didn't go deeper than the birds outer fascia. IE the perfect wound for superglue.

Phoenix is currently perching on a slanted rock. It's handicapped accessible, he just climbs up the slant to the top and perches like an eagle.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This is the part of the process that usually unsettles nerves. The bird's fairly often wondering why we're going crazy and fainting, and just wants dinner.

Pidgey


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

What would this thread be without more pictures? Well probably more bearable to read...

Here is baby Phoenix, doing well. He has a theme song and a blog now. I tried to get him some sun the other day but he struggled way too hard while I was carrying the little beggar and I dropped him. He really hates being carried with one hand over like most flightless doves need to be carried. So from now on he will be carried in a basket.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Phoenix is healing beautifully, you won't be able to see the wing is missing with the feathers coming back in like that.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

He looks so much better, Philodice. It's good to see new feathers coming in, too.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Just an amazing recovery for little Phoenix! It's wonderful seeing the feathers growing back in. You really have done a fantastic job - and Phoenix is sure living up to his name


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Little Phoenix is looking great!!! What a fantastic job you have done and what a wonderful recovery.

Can't wait to see himn in his little basket.

Louise


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Things like this just blow me away. That baby looks wonderful. You must have nerves of steel.............. I just can't imagine..........


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Things like this just blow me away. That baby looks wonderful. You must have nerves of steel.............. I just can't imagine..........


I am so glad the doc recommended superglue the second time on the side cut, and leaving the stump alone. I couldn't have tried sewing him again, it was bad enough once. Well it's time for me to put more wash on the stump.
I'm putting the wash in an eyedropper and squirting it at his stump, and that is working great.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

philodice said:


> I am so glad the doc recommended superglue the second time on the side cut, and leaving the stump alone. I couldn't have tried sewing him again, it was bad enough once. Well it's time for me to put more wash on the stump.
> I'm putting the wash in an eyedropper and squirting it at his stump, and that is working great.


Yea, superglue is good for a slight cut. One of our members had a bird hit by a hawk and it opened up the chest just barely. He superglued the skin together and two weeks later, that bird went to AND won a 300 mile race.


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