# Soggy Nest?



## paws

A pair of pigeons is raising a pair of babies (five days old) in a sagging area in a tarp covering a truck in my garage. I rarely see them first-hand, as the truck is 11 feet tall, but I have a couple surveillance cameras monitoring them 24/7 in case, say, they try to hotwire the truck or something. My worry is that the nest seems to be getting soggy. My confidence in the parents is not stellar – they spent a couple weeks trying to build the nest in the rafters, only to have every twig fall out of the niche they had chosen. Maybe this is normal, and I’m being overly critical. At any rate, I fear that the tarp is trapping, uh… moisture that might have normally seeped out. The temperature rarely reaches 60 degrees, so there isn’t a lot of evaporation – will this be a problem?

Thanks in advance!

Jim


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## Skyeking

Hi Jim,

Welcome to pigeon Talk,

You are quite right, there are some pigeons, especially young parents-to-be that don't actually build a nice full layered nest with solid foundation, but they do try to provide the best place they can find.

Dampness is a very dangerous thing for pigeons to sit, stand or lie on, especially if ventilation is poor and it is soggy. Perhaps you can poke a few tiny holes in the tarp where the babies sit, to allow it to drain without the tarp losing its integrity/strength. I hesitate on changing it too much should the parents feel threatened and leave. 

If that is not possible, we will continue to look for other options.


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## paws

*Eek! A hole in my tarp!*

I may be able to do it. The thing is thick (weighs almost 100lbs) but if I shove something sharp enough through it from above it should penetrate.

Thanks!

Jim


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## Skyeking

paws said:


> I may be able to do it. The thing is thick (weighs almost 100lbs) but if I shove something sharp enough through it from above it should penetrate.
> Thanks!
> Jim



*Please be VERY careful not to poke the kids, and not to intimidate the parents in any way. Hopefully this will help drain off all wetness without the least disturbance, please upate us...perhaps we will need an alternative. *


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## Lovebirds

Did the birds build any kind of nest on this tarp or are the babies on the bare tarp? IF they built a nest, I would remove the nesting material, poke some holes in the tarp and replace the nesting material with some fresh but use the same kind of stuff they used. If they DIDN'T build a nest, then I guess just the holes would have to do for now. Once the babies get a little older, you may be able to put some nesting material there and the parents wouldn't mind. Doesn't sound like an ideal nesting place.........silly birds......


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## paws

*Disturbing Parents, Nest Materials*

My plan is to dart up there the next time the parents flee for other reasons - despite my best efforts, they still flee a couple times a day - and use a long (18") drill bit to do the deed. I figure there will be noise, but not the shock impact that would result if I had to drive a spike through there. With the long bit I can easily avoid skewering a young 'un.

They did build a very rudimentary nest, probably less than thirty twigs, so there is little "drainage" room below the living level. The babies look wet, and the green tarp shows bright and shiny, so I figure things are bad. Any idea on how long I need to wait before I can do some remodeling without permanently traumatizing the parents? I don't want to have to puke down throats or anything!

Thanks,
Jim


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## paws

*Holy Tarpaulin!*

The home improvement is done. I got a close look at the nest in the process, of course (no - I was just drilling blindly!) and it is rudimentary, at best. The kids rest directly on the slimy tarp. If this were a human family, they'd be living in a refrigerator box under an overpass somewhere.

I drilled two 1/2" holes, left a bowl of water next to the saucer of raw peanuts that they have never even looked at in the week it's been there, and fled. Mom or Dad (how can you tell? - I can't even tell the two birds apart!) returned less than a minute later, apparently not overly concerned about the whole affair.

I'll keep you posted if anything changes. This still doesn't seem like the most hygenic lifestyle.

Jim


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## Lovebirds

I don't know what to tell you about the nest. It sure doesn't sound like a good situation. One thing..........I would remove the peanuts. If not kept refridgerated, the can go rancid real quick. If they've been there a week, they are probably not good. You said they weren't eating them so I would throw them out asap. A bowl of seeds would be much better.


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## Lovebirds

paws said:


> The home improvement is done. I got a close look at the nest in the process, of course (no - I was just drilling blindly!) and it is rudimentary, at best. The kids rest directly on the slimy tarp. If this were a human family, they'd be living in a refrigerator box under an overpass somewhere.
> 
> I drilled two 1/2" holes, left a bowl of water next to the saucer of raw peanuts that they have never even looked at in the week it's been there, and fled. Mom or Dad (how can you tell? - I can't even tell the two birds apart!) returned less than a minute later, apparently not overly concerned about the whole affair.
> 
> I'll keep you posted if anything changes. This still doesn't seem like the most hygenic lifestyle.
> 
> Jim


Oh, I just read your post again............1/2" hole seems kinda big. There's a chance the babies legs could go through it while they are moving around. If the parents have twigs in the nest, I think you could probably reinforce it with another handful or so and they wouldn't mind. I just wouldn't add pine needles or anything that they don't already have in the nest. As far as telling the parents apart..........at the age the babies are now, Mom is spending the nights and most of the morning with the babies. Then dad will sit with them roughly from about 10:00 to 4:00 PM, then Mom takes back over for the rest of the day and overnight..........that's about how it works......


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## paws

*Twigs, Peanuts*

Okay, I'll repossess those nasty peanuts. I don't blame the birds - I tried them and determined why Planters roasts them and adds salt.

The twigs won't be a problem - Being a less than tidy person, I never cleaned up the scores of twigs that fell from the first nesting attempt. They were apparently good enough for them then! Or maybe not - maybe they were intentionally discarding them! 

Good information on their schedule. I'd noticed the change-outs, but never determined a pattern. Fascinating!

Thanks,
Jim


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## Lovebirds

The twigs should be fine as long as they are dry. If a pigeon is taking a twig or what have you to the nest and drops it, they just go get another one. I love to watch my birds in the loft build nests. They search and search through the pile, find one they like  , shake it a bit then fly up to the nest box, only to drop it and go start the whole thing over again. Another cock will come along and pick up the one his "buddy" just dropped. Pretty funny to watch.


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## paws

*Things are better... or at least dryer*

I put the suggested handful of twigs in the nest. I may have gotten on the adults' bad side, because Mom had a heck of a time getting herself atop the suddenly much higher kids. She eventually managed to move them almost out of the twigs altogether to get things somewhat back to "normal". She's squatting there now, glaring at the camera, probably trying to figure out how to explain this to Dad when he returns.

While the little ones are almost out of the twigs, it isn't that bad: By being at the edge they are far removed from the bottom of the sag, so I expect they'll still stay pretty dry. Besides - how much longer do they stay under Mom/Dad? They're getting bigger by the day!

I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the assistance so far - I can bet I'll find other worries!

Jim


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## Skyeking

paws said:


> how much longer do they stay under Mom/Dad?
> Jim


Thank you for your care and concern over the nestlings.

The parents will start leaving the babies alone when they are around 12 to 14 days old.

If there is still a problem with dampness you may be able to dry it out on regular basis once mom and dad are off of them. I would just keep an eye out and do change out pine needles and bedding if needed. Mom and dad will still be close by watching them.


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## kittypaws

Hi Jim,

I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say what a great person you are to take time to help this little family - a comedian too which is great - we all need some light humour.  

Seriously though thanks for being concerned enough to help these pidgies out - hope it all works out. 

Tania x


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## mr squeaks

I agree with Kittypaws! This story is getting better by the post! 

We'll be sitting on OUR twigs (a.k.a. pins & needles), waiting to hear what's next!  

Darn, Jim, what WILL you do once the squabs fly the nest?


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## paws

*I may have to get a life!*

_Darn, Jim, what WILL you do once the squabs fly the nest?_

I could work on my place. Right now I've suspended construction because the pigeons are so skitterish that they'd leave for sure if I fired up power tools. Also, I'm really lazy. So this is a match made in heaven! Send more birds!

I'm living inside my unfinished shop/apartment. My home is a travel trailer and a huge, geriatric army truck. I have to sneak back and forth to avoid scaring off the pigeons. On the other hand, they’ve adapted well to my screaming obscenities at the computer in the truck (some people take video games WAY too seriously) just ten feet from the nest, so they do have some tolerance. And probably a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush, too.

Really impressive was last week (before hatching) when our power failed. I wasn't terribly worried about it since our failures usually last only a few minutes, but after three hours I began to worry. My neighbor was in Hong Kong, and I wanted to email him that I would check on his technically challenged spouse in the morning – I didn't want to wander over there at midnight and maybe get shot (_technically challenged_ does not mean she can't pull the trigger on a .41 Magnum).

Okay, back to the pigeons. So I wandered out to the truck and found that both my UPS's batteries had run down (they run various things, including an infra-red PigeonCam, so this was not unexpected). But, being a Real Man, I have a standby generator. Most people use little, five horsepower or so things. I have one with a 500 cubic inch, four hundred horsepower V8 engine. It’s an early ‘70’s ambulance, which has a power inverter for 110 volt current. The trouble was that the ambulance was parked directly under the nest. But one must do what one must do. In my defense, I did not run the siren. I had to keep the engine revving fairly fast because I wasn't just running a computer and modem - I was also charging the two UPS's, which, it turned out, wanted to charge very fast and suck a lot of juice in the process. So things were roaring for ten minutes or so. As I sent the message I flicked on the TV to check the PigeonCam, expecting to see two bare eggs there (well, really, based on Murphy's Law, I was expecting to see two _hatched_ eggs there, since the camera system had been down), but there was a doting parent, hunkered down on the nest, maybe with cotton in its ears.

But this rambling is probably not of great pertinence to the forum. The only real update was that Mom (I’m assuming “Mom” because it was the middle of the night) certainly didn’t take the desecration of the nest lightly. When I last posted she had come to an uneasy accommodation with the newly elevated squabs, but I think there was still an anger issue (and I know about anger issues - just ask my computer). A few minutes after I posted she just got up and stomped away out of camera range. She probably vandalized/pooped on some of the electronic gear I have up there. She never flew off (I can hear them depart and land from inside), and, after a couple minute's time-out, returned to her duties. I'd never seen this sort of thing before. They only leave when they are being relieved or when something scares them. What an ungrateful wench!

I tried to post a shot of her butt storming away from the nest, but I must not understand the “attachment” feature.

Sorry for the long tome. Like I said, I probably need a life!

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Jim... you don't have to have a life at all...just do those funny posts! My evening has been made! I'm laughing so hard the screen got all blurry - even WITH my glasses on!

As if you haven't guessed, I think I can seriously say that I'm the site's strongest humor advocate...when possible, of course!

Either living in ALASKA is revving up your humor and you have found a new forte or you are a naturally funny guy!

Are you living in a sparsely settled area? Sounds like it...shades of M.A.S.H. - for pigeons, that is!   

WELCOME TO THE SITE!!


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## paws

*Location details*

Not really sparsely populated, more like a rather low-density suburb. Average lot size about an acre or so. My lot is heavily treed, so I sort of live in a forest - maybe an attractant for the birds. Pigeons are rare up here, although I'm sure there's a fair amount in Anchorage, the "Big City". A couple telephone repair guys were here today and spotted one of the parents on the roof and remarked about it. Wow! I never thought I'd be into exotic birds!

There's a fair amount of other wildlife passing through: Woodpeckers, ravens, crows, ptarmigans, magpies, squirrels, porcupines, and moose. I once saw a porcupine the size of a dog. I never quite felt safe peeing outside in the dark again!

Jim


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## mr squeaks

paws said:


> Not really sparsely populated, more like a rather low-density suburb. Average lot size about an acre or so. My lot is heavily treed, so I sort of live in a forest - maybe an attractant for the birds. Pigeons are rare up here, although I'm sure there's a fair amount in Anchorage, the "Big City". A couple telephone repair guys were here today and spotted one of the parents on the roof and remarked about it. Wow! I never thought I'd be into exotic birds!
> 
> *At the rate you're going, they won't be "exotic" for long. Once the word spreads about the wonderful accommodations you supply....well, you could end up being known as the "pigeon" man in your area! Of course, if you are not gregarious, you may not relish the - ah - notoriety!*
> 
> There's a fair amount of other wildlife passing through: Woodpeckers, ravens, crows, ptarmigans, magpies, squirrels, porcupines, and moose. I once saw a porcupine the size of a dog. *I never quite felt safe peeing outside in the dark again!*
> Jim


I can understand your "pain"...hopefully, you now have indoor plumbing installed?


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## paws

*How long before I should start worrying?*

Sorry to bother you all again, but I was wondering at what point I should start panicking and perhaps puking down a squab's throat. The parents have been gone for about an hour and a half, which is twice as long as ever before. The squabs are nine days old, and the temperature is 57 F. The little ones seem quite content, although I'm not sure I could tell the difference between happiness, sadness, or pure dread. At any rate, they don't seem to be shivering, they're breathing about eighty gasps a minute, I don't know their pulse, and I don't have a rectal thermometer small enough for that sort of thing.

And, vaguely on that last note, I do have sort-of indoor plumbing: The travel trailer is hooked up to my septic, so every few weeks I just pull a valve and everything goes away. This beats the heck out of when I lived in Fairbanks and had an outhouse. Constipation could actually be fatal at 40 below!

By the way, for God's sake, please read the previous post so you don't think I'm given to randomly discussing my sewage issues.

Jim The Worrier


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## paws

*Disregard!*

When it rains, it pours. After a two hour vacation, a parent returned. The ensuing feeding frenzy was interrupted after five minutes when the _other_ parent showed up, so the first one left again. I think these guys don't have this scheduling thing down to an art yet.

Jim


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## kittypaws

Jim,

You are funny - you should write stand-up comedy - you would be great.... .

Re the parents, I know the first lot of ferals I observed gave me cause for comcern because they left the nest for long periods of time, but I think more knowledgeable people than me will tell you that it is normal. The squabs are left for long periods of time whilst the parents go and find food and basically have some "me" time and it makes the babies a little more independent.

The ferals that I was observing were in the winter and I was worried as London winters can be cold though not as cold as Alaska!! ( are you on the same latitude or longitudes as Russia ( or previously known as USSR?). 

A parent should return for the night though to make sure the babies are warm when the temperatures drop at night.... 

Bless you for being so concerned..... I am imagining you are some great bear or moose hunter out in some Alaskan backwater with just nature for company and yet these teeny little guys are showing just what a big softie you are - I know I am probably wrong and I hope that I don't offend - just a curious gal from London town.... 

Tania xx


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## paws

*Yeah, and I also wrestle whales*

I bet "whales" is a term rarely used in pigeon-related forums.

Wasilla (actually a Russian name – they were Alaska’s previous landlords) is about even with St. Petersburg in Russia. We are just north of the Gulf of Alaska, so our temperatures are moderated somewhat. A really cold day in the winter might be -35C (-30F). When I lived in the interior of Alaska it would get down to at least -45C (-50F) every year, so things are relative.

I can’t recall if the UK does Celsius or Fahrenheit. I’m betting the former. But the US is sticking to its guns. None of that Celsius stuff here! And when they put up metric road signs a couple decades ago people shot them. Just because only two other countries have not officially adopted the Metric system doesn’t mean we’re wrong. The fact that those two other countries are Burma and Liberia is kind of incriminating, though.

I hate to disappoint, but I am somewhat of an oddity up here: I have no great urge to go blow away moose or put sharp objects through fishes’ lips. I don’t even have any outstanding arrest warrants, which used to be another good reason to live up here. I do, though, have a sister born in Afghanistan, so maybe a low profile is the ticket right now. I, on the other hand, was born in Wimbledon, so I should be safe. I should also look a lot better in tennis garb than I do. My tennis garb is made by Omar the Tent Maker.

But yes, I guess I am a softie when it comes to little critters. I’m not wild about humans (aha! That’s why I’m up here!), and I fear the pigeons are uncomfortably aware of my opinions of the little pixilated scumbags in the computer games, but animals are great. It’s all I can do not to climb atop the truck and pet the little squabs when Mom and Dad are out being neglectful. I have to admit I sneaked in a couple strokes as I was renovating the nest. Thank goodness their eyes are closed – the giant Blue Glove of Death would have traumatized them for life. And I bet the electric drill would have been really popular, too!

Since I have essentially no life, this business is no trouble at all, and I even have something better to watch on my televisions! The worrying may leave me with ulcers, though. 

Okay, back to the forum topic. I was expecting the parents to roam off on occasion, but I thought they would wait until the little guys at least had their eyes open. To add to my concern, I think I have defective squabs – I was comparing them to the growth photos on “Lovebirds’” website and these look more like the 6 day old than the 10 day old, so they really have very little natural insulation. But, as I said, they didn’t seem to be shivering, if pigeons shiver. For that matter, they weren’t even if pigeons don’t shiver. 

Jim


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## Lin Hansen

Hi Jim,

Welcome to you....I wanted to let you know that I'm really enjoying your posts....Life in Alaska sounds pretty exotic to a Jersey gal.

Anyhow, here is another link to day by day development that you might like looking at for comparison....just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9500

This is one of the threads in our "Resource" section here at the forum. If you haven't checked out Resource yet, you should...you would probably enjoy looking at all the threads.

Good luck with the babies.

Linda


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## kittypaws

Hi Jim,

We do celsius on the TV weather report but I like to think in farenheit. 

I'm glad you don't shoot moose or grizzlies!! You sound nice - glad the squabs and their parents are endearing their little life to you. They are lucky to have such a nice guy looking out for them!

Keep looking out for the little guys! 

Tania xx

NB - we had a whale in the Thames recently but nobody wrestled him!! We tried to save him but couldn't poor thing.


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## Birdmom4ever

I must say, I really enjoyed reading this thread! To address your concern, at nine or ten days it's normal for the parents to leave the nest for longer periods. It concerned me when I was new to pigeons because some of our first chicks were born in the middle of the winter and it was in the 50's in our loft, yet Mom and Dad left the nest. The little ones did just fine. Yours don't sound like experienced parents, but hopefully they will muddle through. The youngsters leave the nest around four weeks and the parents usually feed them for a couple weeks after that, though they should start eating on their own. Also, I'd expect ferals to look smaller than homers of the same age...homers are bigger and more robust.


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## Lovebirds

I too get a kick out of your humor........... You know, it really won't hurt anything to hold the babies and play with them while the parents aren't around. They won't even know or care. Just wait another 10 days or so when they start standing up and popping thier little beaks at you. We'll hear some stories then I'm sure. Have fun with them. They grow up SUPER fast............


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## mountainstorm

*yes, pigeons shiver ...*

Not that Cielo has been cold. But he shivers when something frightens him a bit, like a cat walking by (and yet, he'll still occassionally fly to one and land on the cat's side! Go figure). Or if he's sitting on me, and I move my hand too fast, he'll tremble. 

Rach


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## mr squeaks

You are certainly a concerned "foster" dad...how great that you have a camera to keep an eye on them. I'm sure that one of these days you will look back and wonder at all your worrying as you will have more pigeons deciding to make their home with you! Even now, the parents may be out telling their friends about the "new" area they found. No waiting and plenty of room! A few twigs and they are set for life. Of course, they do, occasionaly, have to put up with some strange "yelling" sounds from a large "bald" pigeon who doesn't fly. Just a small price to pay for "virgin" territory!  

Thank goodness, a rare man...NON hunter! Obviously you don't have to "kill" to survive.

Yeah, the metric system gives me hives but, then again, YEARS without it makes things difficult trying to make "sense" out of that stuff. And, when one is math deprived...thanks, I'll stay with our over 100 degrees F...so THAT'S why there were all those holes in the metric mileage signs in Central America!

Well, I see that other members are finding the joy of this thread! Love sitting here reading about the new Alaskan adventures without having to worry about becoming catatonic at under 70 degrees F !! Yea for heat... 

Sounds like your squabs are doing well. When I found Mr. Squeaks, who is a former Racing Homer, he was only about 30-35 days old and still squeaking. Could NOT believe how BIG he was. He looked like an adult! So size can be relative...

Look forward to updates...


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## Mistifire

I also enjoy reading your posts  I wanted to say how neat it is that you would put your work on hold for the birds. It sounds like you are just itching to get back to it! I would love to see the video of the momma storming off camera, I can picture it now with grumbling sounds and then her coming back on camera a little less unhappy after leaving you a gift on your tools lol

Thanks for taking care of them they are definately lucky to have chosen your tarp as a nest.


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## paws

*Various Responses*

Wow! I’m getting an information overload! Many, many thanks, though!

Lin Hansen: Great pigeon growth link! I’d browsed around a bit, but hadn’t seen it. Best of all, I followed a link on the pictures page and found that there is a racing pigeon club in Eagle River, which is only half an hour or so away. No – I’m not becoming a devotee, but I figure that somebody there might spare me some squab food if things go horribly awry. Amazingly, I haven’t happened across squab food at the local grocery store. I have a bookmark from another thread in case I need to order it.

Kittypaws: Yeah, I figured the UK was Celsius. I suppose it will take a generation to really get a handle on it. Look at the brighter side: You also got away from Pounds, Shillings, and Pence. How the heck did anyone balance their checkbooks back then? What was it, 12 Pence to a Shilling, 20 Shillings to Pound? Something like that. I use that to mock the miles-feet-inches thing we have here. Then I run like heck, because no one likes an un-American smart-ass.

Birdmom4ever: Good to hear that the squabs are reasonably cold-tolerant. The nest probably gets into the low 50’s at night, but is fine in the days. I fear that not only are the parents inexperienced, but they also have no good role models. I suspect that instinct can do the trick, but in more pigeon-intensive areas they get to see others doing all the right things, like maybe NOT LAYING EGGS IN A WATERPROOF BOWL. But they got the feeding thing figured out, which is good, because to heck with good role models – I was not about to rent a couple pigeon suits, hire a guy from a Temp Services place, and demonstrate THAT to anyone or anything. There are just too many people with camcorders around. 

Lovebirds: Their growth IS impressive, especially one who is rapidly developing his own gravitational field. He’s easily twice the size of his sibling. They look like Laurel and Hardy, but without the funny hats. I’ve started dropping by now that Mom and Dad are becoming more irresponsible. I give them a few strokes and leave the Offerings of the Day for the parents. The nest, already ringed by cameras and lights, is now becoming encircled with bowls of gifts. With no gold, frankincense, or myrrh handy, I’ve left birdseed, some sort of suet stuff, and water. If I put much more up there they will have to land in another time zone and hike in. They’ve shown the same level of enthusiasm as they did with the peanuts: Total apathy. Well, at least they don’t go stomping away like when I bring in the twigs!

Mountainstorm: Good to know about shivering. I can use it as a warning system. Squabs shivering? Time to break out the heat lamps!

Mr. Squeaks: Believe me, one of my greatest dreads is for the news of Pigeon Paradise to spread. Fortunately the odds are slim, as this may be the only pair within the area. On the other hand, I’m a little leery of just what these guys are up to when they are not on the nest (it was empty 47.86% of the day yesterday, but who’s counting?). I learned from another thread that they may start another nest before the first is empty. Eek! So far no twigs have rained from the heavens, so I assume that they aren’t back at it, but I may have to start patrolling the unfinished attic. This is my future home and is directly above the nest. There’s something going on up there. Yesterday I made some noise down below and heard a pigeon skip/run the entire 60 foot length before launching into the air at the end. I suppose a running start helps… On the Metric note, do you know if I-19 (I think it is) from Tucson to the Mexican border is still posted in kilometers? Years ago I was down there and it was! I suspect that there was some federal requirement for new road construction to be Metric, although even newer Interstates are in miles.


The nest is getting pretty nasty again. There is a serious stink factor. I’m contemplating a complete rebuild. I read in another thread of someone using sweatshirts and changing them out daily, I think. Would paper towels work? I would use sweatshirts, but none of my neighbors has a clothesline.

When do these guys start eating regular food? Which happy meal at McDonald’s do they prefer?

I’m going to try attaching photos again. If nothing shows up, just imagine that you are looking at pictures of:

Squab 1 waiting for Squab 2 to get around to hatching.

Home Improvement.

Mom’s reaction to the next home improvement.


Jim


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## paws

*Two More*

Gee, the attachments worked - I think. Hopefully there's not a compromising photo of me with a barnyard animal.

I'll try two more:

The family portrait – I think Dad is in the foreground – he’s the one on nest ten percent of the time. Maybe things will improve now that the World Cup is over.

The size difference between the kids. If I had to name them, I’d go with “Little Boy” and “Fat Man”. After all, this is a “Nuclear Family.” History buffs help the others out here.

Jim


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## Whitefeather

Hi Jim,
I haven't contributed to your most wonderful thread until now, but have been sincerely entertained with your posts.  

Your pictures are great.  

Babies look good. Love the 'family photo'. I'm quite hooked on taking pijjie pictures & so enjoy viewing the other members pictures as well.  

Just wanted to say, your pictures are perfect & your thread is devine.  

Cindy


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## Lovebirds

I think by the looks of the last picture, they babies are doing good. There is a bit of diference in their growth, but there doesn't seem to be any in the developement so that's good. Sometimes when one baby is smaller, the big one has feathers and the little one is still all fluff and that can be a concern. Think your younguns' look pretty good. The second nest...........when the babies are about 16 to 18 days old, two more eggs will most like appear somewhere..


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## Lin Hansen

paws said:


> Lin Hansen: Great pigeon growth link! I’d browsed around a bit, but hadn’t seen it. Best of all, I followed a link on the pictures page and found that there is a racing pigeon club in Eagle River, which is only half an hour or so away. No – I’m not becoming a devotee, but I figure that somebody there might spare me some squab food if things go horribly awry. Amazingly, I haven’t happened across squab food at the local grocery store. I have a bookmark from another thread in case I need to order it.
> 
> 
> 
> On the Metric note, do you know if I-19 (I think it is) from Tucson to the Mexican border is still posted in kilometers? Years ago I was down there and it was! I suspect that there was some federal requirement for new road construction to be Metric, although even newer Interstates are in miles.
> 
> 
> 
> Jim


Hi Jim,

I'm glad you found the link to pigeon development helpful.


Your comment about I-19 reminded me of "way back when" when President Carter (I think) announced that the United States was going to go metric. That scared me all right---I know the metric system is supposed to be easier and all, and almost everyone besides us uses it, but to this day, it looks confusing to me... LOL

Anyway, I figured that must have had something to do with it and found the following:

"Interstate 19 is unique amongst US Interstates, because signed distances are given in kilometers, and not miles. Speed limit signs give speeds in miles-per-hour, however. According to the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT), metric signage was originally placed because of the "metric system push" in the United States at the time of the original construction of the highway."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_19


Thanks for providing the pictures...everything looks great and the nest looks quite majestic.

Please keep us updated....your posts are very entertaining! 

Linda


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## Birdmom4ever

Very nice pix, thanks so much for sharing! The chicks look good. The size difference is likely due to one hatching before the other, which is not uncommon with inexperienced parents. The hen lays her eggs about 36 hours apart. Normally they don't begin incubation until egg #2 arrives, and the chicks hatch on the same day. But newbie parents often start incubating when egg #1 arrives so the chicks hatch a day or more apart. They grow so fast that the firstborn is much larger than the second. It's not a cause for concern unless the second one isn't getting enough to eat. From the looks of them, they both have full crops and appear nice and healthy.


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## mr squeaks

Once again, I had my laugh for the night following your latest posts!

I really don't know about the metric system being used in AZ as I don't travel in that area. IF I do, I will keep an eye open and let you know. So far, all I've seen are miles (which, as I mentioned earlier, suits me just fine). 

I was QUITE surprised at how many twigs the nest has! From your posts, I figured just a FEW. Looks like they have quite a bunch....oh, wait, didn't you add some? *sigh* guess the *lack* of memory is working just fine!!  

Was also surprised how close you drilled your "holes." I'm sooooo confused! Oh well, love your posts and since the squabs still have a little growing and feathering to do, updated posts will be eagerly anticipated.  

Yeah, I guess our enthusiastic responses and questions could be overwhelming to someone who likes to shun crowds and cities! But, we're such a friendly bunch!  

GREAT clear pics...send more anytime! 

Your "family" looks just terrific!


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## paws

*Size, Smell, Something Rolling Downhill*

Thanks for confirming my memory of I-19. It was very odd when I came across it. Still, I kind of like the metric system for a couple of reasons:

It makes it seem like you’re going so much faster! Nothing like seeing three digits on the speedometer and not fretting about law enforcement, except maybe in a school zone.

And wow, does it make you feel thin! I lost over half my weight when I converted it into kilos! Of course, being born in England, I feel fully justified in using stones, but those numbers are just too small (1 stone = 14 pounds).

I figured that the size difference was somewhat due to the hatching times, but they hatched about twelve hours apart, at most. Still, as long as they seem healthy, I suppose all is well. I find myself rooting for the little guy when I watch them feeding. “Shove him out of the way! That’s it, beak the cr*p out of him!” I think I would do well as a soccer parent right up until the arrest.

I added quite a few twigs that one night, then I freshened it with a few more later. I’ll browse my ever increasing archive and find before/after shots that will hopefully be attached. The holes had to be drilled close because the nest is in the bottom of the sag. Like they say, “…rolls downhill,” so the holes needed to be at the bottom, too. But the chicks took the interruption with great aplomb, most likely because they couldn’t see the Blue Hand of Death.

I was just up there again, and I really think I need to do some cleaning. I’ve read other post complaining about the smell, so I guess it’s okay, but things are getting pretty slimy. I’ll collect a fresh crop of twigs and just replace the whole thing. This will also give me an excuse to pick up the chicks. Chances to pick up chicks are few and far between up here. There are bumper stickers that read, “In Alaska you don’t lose your woman, you lose your turn!”

Actually, the male/female ratio is not as skewed as it used to be, but this didn’t stop the women from retaliating with their sticker: “In Alaska the odds are good, but the goods are odd!”

Hmmm... I can't attach anything again. I'll try again tomorrow. I'm obviously not just new to pigeon rearing!

Jim


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## paws

*I've Been Beaked!*

Wow! These guys are overachievers! At least the big one is. As Lovebirds warned, he did some beak popping – but a lot sooner than predicted. What the heck is that? I would have been shaking in my boots, except that the little one, who was between us, immediately jumped to my defense and furiously beaked the sibling. Well, beaked _at_ the sibling: Accuracy isn’t his strong suit. But we kissed and made up – okay, maybe we just made up. At any rate, he wound up apparently looking for food between my fingers. It used to be a lot easier and safer to add twigs to the nest.

The parents spend most of the day off the nest, mainly in my attic area yelling at each other. This bodes ill – I think they’re discussing real estate choices for their second starter home. Because of the design of my place (basically a huge box), there’s no way to exclude them from the rest of it, yet give them access to the squabs. I think I’m in big trouble. My building moratorium may be extended until winter. Conveniently, that’s not too far away up here, and when you whack your thumb with a hammer at twenty below you barely feel it!

I’ll try to attach the before/after shots of the nest when I added the twigs.

Jim


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## TAWhatley

Great thread, Jim! You're a pretty good nest builder too!

Terry


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## piney_creek

What a great thread....very very entertaining to say the least!


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## kittypaws

Jim,

The photos are great - wasn't too sure about the "Driller Killer" one with the power drill and the little squab gently shielded from the madman with the drill. 

I took a look at the atlas re Alaska - wow you are pretty near Russia - not far away at all - just a little strip of water - hmmmmm

Born in England eh? What part just out of interest - just curious to know. 

Your posts are brilliant  - really funny  - keep them coming and the pictures - we love pictures.

Tania x


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## mr squeaks

Had to stop laughing in order to type...as always! 

Been off (SITE, that is) the last day or so. Was in Flagstaff to see my sister and niece & nephew. Thought the temps would be MUCH cooler...weren't...which is fine with me since I love heat anyway.

First post to check...well, this one, of course! Laughter is always the best medicine! Left purse at daughter's house across town and have NO driver's license, credit cards or ready cash. Thanks goodess daughter will be returning said purse on Sat. morning. Will only cost me a lunch...WELL WORTH IT. Good excuse to stay out of our 112 F heat temps tomorrow!  

Checked out your before and after nests...NOW, that's what I call an UPGRADE!  

Oh oh, looks like your pijie parents are looking for a better location for their NEXT nest! LUCKY YOU!!

I am sure we will have VERY interesting updates on THAT one!


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## paws

*Beaking, Bedding, Bear Bombers*

Nothing of note to report. The larger one, a.k.a. Fat Man, is getting outright homicidal. He turns into a big(ger) ball and furiously beaks at me when I visit, even if I bear gifts like new twigs. I must find some frankincense and myrrh. Maybe on ebay or something. The other one is relatively unfazed by my visits, except for the pummeling it receives from its vicious, if woefully inaccurate, sibling. In military terms this is “collateral damage.” I try to give it a quick pet or two as compensation, but I really have no clue how or where one pets a squab. Of course, a couple weeks ago I had no clue what a squab was (based on the word alone, I would have anticipated something pretty gross), so this is understandable, I guess. Do you pet their backs? Scratch under the chin? Scratching behind the ears would be problematic.

They have discovered their wings, but obviously are at a loss of what to do with them. Right now they seem to believe they have something to do with feeding, so it’s a sure bet that _someone_ is going to get clubbed when Mom arrives with lunch. Always rooting for the little guy, I’m tempted to put a rubber band around the big one, except that it looks so funny beating those pathetic things. Like a bowling ball with little fins.

The parents are spending much of their time planning the next home, so are rarely on the nest. Yesterday Mom put in an eight hour day. Dad logged a whopping ten minutes, spread over five visits (Excel spreadsheet available on request). Makes me proud to be a guy! In his defense, though, he did add a twig to the nest. Well, it was more of a blade of grass, and he found it about a foot away (The Camera knows all!). Still, I bet he’s _still_ bragging about it with his buddies, and I’m sure this manly deed is being adequately detailed many times over as the parents yell at each other as I try to sleep.

The kids see him almost as little as they see me. How come he doesn’t get beaked?

Are these guys supposed to have pink bald areas, mainly around the wing roots (see photo)?

Do you think they would mind if I used sweatshirts for bedding? How about paper towels? It’s getting really nasty in there, and I’m running short of pre-selected (“dropped”) twigs.

Kittypaws: I was born in Wimbledon. I look a lot like a very large tennis ball. I was only there for a couple of years, but I speak English reasonably fluently – one supposedly learns languages easily when young. Of course, having two English speaking parents helped. Yes, Alaska and Russia are remarkably close. There are a couple islands, Little and Big Diomede that are about two miles apart. One is Russian, the other American. In the Cold War an American swam from one to the other and was briefly arrested for her trouble. Fortunately the USSR decided that it was not an actual invasion, or if it was, they had a lot less to fear from the west than they thought.

The close proximity made for an interesting exchange program: We sent U2, etc., spy planes over there, they sent Bear bombers over here. Then we sent a Korean airliner from Anchorage. ‘Nuff said about that. The U.S. bought Alaska from Russia in 1867 for about $7,000,000. The deal was much derided at the time, but turned out to be a good idea, because we needed the U2 bases a century later. Also, there is a bit of oil up here.

Okay, enough drivel.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

When I saw you had a new post, Jim, I made sure I didn't have to use the - ah -restroom (I've sure you have heard the expression, "I laughed so hard, I .......") And, of course, I made the right decision! Must be in _serious_ need of laughter! Mr. Squeaks and my cats are really beginning to look at me strangely! Actually, Squeaks is just glad his "mate" is back home and doesn't care what kind of sound(s) I make!

Usually, squabs will end up pooping over the nest edge. Actually, not having a super clean nest is good for them. However, in your situation, when the nest is in a "hole"...

Sure looks like they have alot of twigs. However, I'm sure members will be along to answer your questions and give their expert opinions. After all, that is one thing about this site: "just about _all_ one needs to know about pigeons and if we don't know, we'll find out!"

I believe the feathers will develop under the wings as they grow older. What a couple of cuties! I'm sure they will like being petted on their little heads and backs. If anyone knows about what squabs like, it's Phil (pdpbison). 

"Beaking" is just their defense mechanism. You may also know the joys of "wing fu" too! After all, you ARE a giant alien to them, can't fly, have no feathers AND, most important (for now), have NO FOOD for them!

Little Boy and Fat Man (I remember "the bomb") look just fine and I'm sure they will grow up to be FINE adults. Most likely they, too, will bring their mates to build in the area they were born. PREPARE to be no longer pigeon "deprived!" ROFL


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## Birdmom4ever

The chicks look really good and their feathers are coming in the way they should. The area under the wings is the last to fill in. 

Just wait until they get old enough to leave the nest but dad is still feeding them. They'll throw their wings over his back and loudly demand that he feed them. To an uninformed observer it looks as though the cock bird is being attacked. I always get a kick out of that phase of parenthood in the loft, when two nearly-grown babies corner daddy, throw their wings over him and shriek to be fed. Guess it's not so different from our teenagers demanding X-boxes, skate shoes, cell phones, etc.


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## Lovebirds

The babies are really looking good and healthy. I wouldn't use any kind of clothing for a nest unless you're going to change it every day. Since they don't have a "nest" so to speak where they can hang their little butts over the edge to poop, they are pooping right where they are and on anything cloth, it would only be a few hours before they were litterally sitting in thier own poop. It's only going to be about 4 more days, and they are going to start moving and actually walking around some, (if they can get out of the "hole" they are in  ) Maybe just add a few handfulls of grass or something. I don't know what you have available. They are getting to the age now, that as long as the nest stays in the same spot, the nesting material could be changed and it's not going to phase the parents. Do you have any sand? You could use that to fill in the dip. Anyway, the next two weeks are going to be a blast for you (and us as well I'm predicting) because they are really going to start coming to life now and get SUPER cute. Have fun...........


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## kittypaws

paws said:


> Kittypaws: I was born in Wimbledon. I look a lot like a very large tennis ball. I was only there for a couple of years, but I speak English reasonably fluently – one supposedly learns languages easily when young. Of course, having two English speaking parents helped.
> Jim


Hi Jim,

Well Wimbledeon is about 4 miles away from where I live in Barnes so pretty close. And of course it is famous for its tennis and its Wombles ( ever heard of the wombles?) 


I hope I didn't offend re the proximity of Russia etc. I think its great that people from all over the globe can unite on a site like this. I even went into work and said that I had been "talking" to a guy in Alaska about pigeons. They all seemed pretty impressed until I mentioned the drill. Well I did explain of course. 

The babies look great - really, really cute. I can see that you are going to close to them Jim and why not. Enjoy them. 

What is the temp at the moment in Alaska. I am imagining snow but being pretty ignorant and I guess it is summer there ( after all you are in the Northern hemisphere just like the UK just a bit furher north) I guess the snow is gone and its OK temp-wise there.

Keep the updates coming we love them

Tania xx


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## paws

*No Real News*

Okay, I guess I’ll stick with the twigs. I think they are actually keeping the guys out of the nasty – it sort of sifts down to the tarp. I haven’t even checked under the holes to see if it is draining. I hope I don’t have any priceless heirlooms under there. Doubtful: Last time I checked I didn’t have any priceless heirlooms, period.

So far Dad hasn’t been cornered and pummeled by the kids. For an apparent newbie, he’s not dumb: His visits are quick and to the point. Yesterday he was there for ten minutes, just like the day before. No reason to overdo this parenting thing, I guess.

I certainly won’t mind if the clan returns next year, but I will have to construct some sort of a nesting area for them, since, after this disaster, you can believe I’ll get the gables closed in this winter. I’ll probably be back here, asking for advice on pigeon house construction. The downside is that, based on my high quality construction of my own house, those guys are going to be lucky to survive the nesting season in anything I create. We don’t exactly have a lot of building codes up here. Maybe I’ll build a miniature copy of the building, complete with miniature vehicles. You know how, when you return to a childhood haunt, things always look smaller? Wait ‘til the squabs come back to this!

I hadn’t thought about the problem of the squabs getting out of the “hole”. I’m sure they’ll figure something out (“…and then the big, bald thing came and gave us a boost!”), but it is a bit slippery. Every so often one of the parents ends up skiing down into it when traction fails. Maybe more twigs are in order.

Kittypaws: Goodness – why would I be offended about the proximity to Russia? Was it something I said? And what the heck is a Womble? Temperatures are really quite nice – mid-60’s in the day, high 40’s at night. We do have a summer, but it is short. On the other hand, the almost 24 hours of daylight produces some remarkable crops, like 100 pound cabbages. The Alaskan climates vary because of the sheer size of the place. If superimposed on the rest of the continental United States, Alaska would span it both in width and height (although a lot of that is islands). The southern areas are quite moderate. The interior, far removed from maritime influences is both the hottest (100 F) and the coldest (-80 F) area (actually, no one knows how cold it got: The Weather Service thermometers were only calibrated to -80 F when that record was set). In the far north, Barrow has an average of seven days from the last freeze of spring to the first one of fall. Oh, and the sun doesn’t set there for a month, nor rise for a month in the winter. We technically have both the farthest west and east points of the United States: The Aleutian Islands extend into the eastern hemisphere. Of course, you guys have the opposite, with the Greenwich Meridian splitting the country. At any rate, this is a pretty weird place to live. I’ve been her for a quarter century and look what it’s done to me.

But at least it’s not 112 degrees, Mr. Squeaks! And by the way, _“Actually, not having a super clean nest is good for them.”_ Where the heck were you when I was growing up? That is serious ammunition in the “Why should I clean up my room?” battle!

Jim


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## kittypaws

paws said:


> Kittypaws: Goodness – why would I be offended about the proximity to Russia? Was it something I said? And what the heck is a Womble? Jim


Uh dunno - I think that I thought that you thought that I thought ( are you sill with me here? ) that you were some kind of Alaskan hermit/hunter-gatherer or something - I know I am completely off the mark so ignore me........  

Re the Wombles - when you are bored go to http://www.wombles.easyweb-solutions.co.uk and you can see what I mean. These were famous little creatures that cleared up Wimbledon Common and they sang songs too - got into the hit parades and everything.

Anyway to set the record straight Jim, I think you are great in that these two little squabs and their parents have been made to feel so welcome and ignore me as I talk a lot of rubbish a lot of the time....

Keep us posted on the babies. 

Tania xx


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## mr squeaks

Cute site, Kittypaws! But I can understand why Jim might not be familar with Wombles...he's been gone from Wimbledon a looooog time!  

Well, Jim, I'm sure that if you had to _stay _ IN your room until you were able to be "on your own," you might not have had to clean up your room. Bear in mind, though, the squabs DO poop over the side of their nest. Might be difficult if you had no "nesting material" to do so....although, come to think of it....maybe, over time and given the 'size' of your room...ROFL  

Gee, aren't you glad you found this site to help with all your questions and comments? As the saying goes: "birds of a feather, flock together." And, do we have some interesting - uh - BIRDS!


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## paws

*Wanderlust, the Poop Parapet*

Once again, little of note. The squabs are actually looking a bit like pigeons, a fact so unremarkable that even I was not taken aback by it. The smaller one has taken lessons from its sibling and is into the beaking thing, although they both need a lot of practice to avoid maiming innocent bystanders. As I’ve seen few adult pigeons wearing eye patches, I’m assuming this stage passes quickly. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve seen any adults so adorned, but I haven’t really been looking.

At this age, is there anything I can give them as a treat to make my visits less traumatic all around? I’m out or myrrh.

As Mr Squeaks and Lovebirds wrote, I think they are trying to poop over the edge, but it is a bit of a problem because of the nest location. They’ve sort of moved all the twigs from underneath them and formed a parapet, which they try to back up to when the call of nature strikes. This ridgeline is now becoming encrusted with poop, but at least they are not lying right in it.

I think they’re getting wanderlust: I’ve caught several shots of them looking over the parapet at the outside world, either wondering how the heck they’re supposed to climb the slope or maybe watching Dad, who, as caring and responsible as ever, has been caught several times standing a few feet away, never bothering to stop in to feed. Frankly, even being a guy, I’m looking forward to seeing Deadbeat Dad get mauled by the kids as Birdmom4ever described.

The parents are on the nest about 15 minutes a day and spend most of their free time discussing future home choices in a loud way, way before I get out of bed (admittedly sometime in the afternoon). I’m guessing Mom is pushing for someplace that doesn’t turn into a swamp like this one, maybe with a better view, and closer to the relatives. Dad just wants somewhere that I can get to to build and repair the nest for him, something I’m sure he hasn’t come clean about with the Missus.

Jim


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## Birdmom4ever

The babies look great. Safflower seed is a favorite of most pigeons...mine would sell their little birdy souls for it. They're a bit young yet, but you could offer it to them. I've had youngsters as young as three weeks eat it from my hand. If dad isn't feeding them as much as he should, they'll be hungry and looking around for a snack. You might end up being their best friend.


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## mr squeaks

So GLAD to see you're back, Jim! I missed almost having a hernia laughing!! Even with, as you say, "little to report," your comments manage to be hysterical! Darn! If living in Alaska gives guys that type of humor, I could even give up my beloved heat and move!   

Your little guys are looking GREAT! How often do you get "up close and personal?"

BTW, I'm assuming that the only way they can get "out" of their nest hole is by flying? I'm assuming that the tarp slopes too much for them to get a walking "grip?"

Hey, there's an idea...you can lift them one at a time for "walk about" (yeah, I know, wrong continent!) where the ground is more level? Maybe not...they can be pretty fast and you don't want to "lose" one if the area isn't secure...

Along with Safflower seeds, you can offer hemp seeds (sorry, you won't be able to grow any...something is done to them *sigh* I know, I've tried ROFL  ). Don't know what seeds you have available. I also give Squeaks some Song Bird mix as a treat. This mix has very tiny seeds...may try that.


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## Skyeking

Oh, they are just adorable, great picture & caption.  

When they start flapping those wings and getting that curious look and wanting to get around, they soon will be, and that is the beginning of fledging. Please keep a close eye on them as they take those first steps.

Thanks


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## maryjane

They're so cute and you've done such a good job with them. It's so cool to hear a story about pij babies from the point of view of a person who is new to pigeons, it brings back memories of my first squabs and the surprise and delight they caused (as well as confusion lol). Look forward to more


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## paws

*Treats, Walkabouts, Sink-or-Swim Flying Lessons*

Okay – I’m off in search of Safflower seeds or, well… Alaska _was_ the last state to criminalize pot. “But Dude… uh… Officer! It’s for veterinary use, Really!” I’m assuming that I don’t have to pre-digest these things – that the squabs can handle solid foods? It’s just that I really don’t eat a lot of seeds, and they may have carbs. I’m on a low carbohydrate diet. Of course, this affair was a great excuse when I bought some Spanish peanuts before reading that they were supposed to be unsalted. Somehow I regained my self control when the parents didn’t eat the unsalted ones I subsequently bought. Gawd, those were nasty!

I go up there about once a day, and the idea of lifting the guys out of the nest/sag has been heavy on my mind for some time. Whee! Green light! I suspect that they would eventually manage to get out on their own with a vigorous run-hop-beat wings furiously procedure (it’s pretty steep and slick – the parents sometimes slide down – but relatively short), but why not hurry things up a bit? They certainly are keen on exploring – I now have many pics of them gazing forlornly over the ridge at the greener pastures (well, greener tarp) at the other side. I tried to include one with the previous message, but for some reason only the wing-beater photo showed up there. I’ll try again. I’ll also look for a photo of the truck before the building was built around it, so you can get an idea of the actual layout of the nest. Picture a big (20 foot by 14 foot) flat area with a small sag (maybe 8 inches deep) in one corner. Picture said sag with many pigeon-poop encrusted twigs.

Hence the “ground” is level, but not _at_ ground level – the top of the truck is flat as a pancake, but 11 feet up. So if the walkabout walks over the edge, the little guy would also become flat as a pancake, given their lack of understanding of the wing things. I’m assuming that, if not being pursued by a rather un-natural predator (yours truly), they would not just step into thin air. Something about instinct and the survival of the species. Of course, one must consider lemmings.

On the other hand, what a great way to learn to fly! Kind of like lobbing a two year old into the deep end of the pool, or perhaps the middle of the Pacific. Don’t worry – I have no kids that I know of.

Jim


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## paws

*Still haven't figured out attachments*

The forlorn gazing once again failed to upload. I'll keep working on it.

Aha! I think it was too big! I've right-sized it. Here we go again.

Jim


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## paws

*Safflower? What the Heck is That?*

That's the response I've received from the various pet stores, feed places, etc., in this area. Each of them initially understood "sunflower". Maybe they had all at some point heard of it, but hey - we were the last state to criminalize pot. We have people _still_ looking for car keys, wallets, close relatives, Doritos, etc.

Can Sunflower seeds be used? 

Jim


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## TAWhatley

Some pictures of safflower seeds: http://images.google.com/images?q=s...E:2005-08,RNWE:en&sa=N&tab=wi&sourceid=tipimg

and some information: http://www.oilseedssf.com/products/prod_bird.html

Terry


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## Skyeking

Here is alink to some great pigeon seed ingredients.

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm


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## mountainstorm

You can use shelled sunflower seeds. (Raw and unsalted of course). If you have the kind with the shell on, make sure they're the black ones, not the striped ones like you might see in the store.

Rach

PS Cielo hasn't figured out how to get bigger items like sunflower seeds down his throat (although come to think of it, a sunflower seed isn't much bigger than a safflower seed)


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## mr squeaks

Well, Jim, many thanks! I just learned something about your posts...do NOT have a mouthful of liquid (the fifth -no pun - prevents me from divulging what kind of liquid) when reading your posts! DARN! now I have to wipe down the screen, not to mention TWO sets of keys (laptop and external)! *SIGH*

OK, all cleaned up...all in working order...I think (the KEYS, that is... )

I see Terry gave you info on safflower. Squeaks sure enjoys those too but they are bigger than the hemp (hey, you may have a better chance of finding them than most - providing you can find your car keys?????? Of COURSE, I'm not assuming... )

I will also assume that since you don't live in the wilderness, there are stores that carry OTHER type of seeds? Don't people have other types of birds where you live...like Canarys, Parakeets?) Maybe a jar of small Song Bird seeds? AND, guess what, the Song Bird seeds have HEMP seeds along with rape seeds (whatever THAT means!)...

From the picture, the slope doesn't "look" that bad. The guys seem just about big enough to "make" the "top." Of course, what happens THEN could be a problem, especially if they decide to take a "flying leap!"

Anyway, do let us know how they are doing! They are soooo cute and growing like mad (give 'em some hemp and they may be...mad...that is  )


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## paws

*The Safflower Fiasco*

Thanks for the info and links on safflower seeds. I had already purchased a bag of variety bird seed, really meant for parrots, I think (sure… we have tons of parrots up here! Don’t they thrive in the arctic?). And guess what was #1 on the ingredients list? Safflower seeds! So I spent some quality time browsing seed photos on the Internet (Wow! These guys don’t ask for age verification like most sites!), and ultimately determined which were the tasty treats, which were the “oat groats” which were the buckwheat(s?) and that parrots have strange taste (chili peppers???).

What better way to spend a Friday evening but to sit in front of the television with a big bag of bird seed, plucking out tasty safflower seeds. I was so enraptured that I once waited for a commercial to sprint from the trailer to the truck to check something on the Internet. It wasn’t until I sprinted back that I realized that I was watching a tape. Maybe “Pause” was an option. Of course, Alaska was the last state to criminalize…

But, to make a long story short (too late!), I eventually went up and offered alms to the young. I was promptly double-beaked for my trouble, with seeds utterly ignored. These guys are as ungrateful as their parents!

On an unrelated note, when I went up there I found the little stash of twigs I had on standby for future renovations gone. Apparently Dad swiped them for the next attempt. Not even a thank-you poop! Ironically, these are now third-hand twigs: They were some of the ones I salvaged from the floor after their first attempt. Humans should be so eco-friendly!

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Oh, darn! We forgot to tell you...you have to bow down first when offering "alms."  

Of course, they may not be quite ready for big Safflower seeds, but I bet the parents would like them (you don't HAVE to bow down to them first)...

Bet when the kids get out of the nest and there are seeds around, they will chow down. Parents will appreciate too since they don't have to be bothered to feed anymore...even though the kids will "beg."

Oh, and don't forget water for all...


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## paws

*Maybe a really small funnel and plunger...*

I think I have a truly defective bunch of birds: I’ve had the seed mix (true, not pure safflower seeds) and water sitting there for over a week and neither of the adults has given either a second look. Maybe these guys have never seen seeds – what else do they eat? What sort of vessels should I use?

I can see the squabs’ problem with the feeding: Yeah, their eyes were still closed, and I was wearing a glove, but I know that they remember the ugly dental drill from H*ll incident. My hand is about as welcome as a root canal done with industrial machinery. Tomorrow I’ll put a handful of seeds on the tarp and give the chicks their first taste of freedom in that vicinity. Maybe they’ll figure it out. On the other hand, I wonder about getting them too used to seeds when they may have to survive on something else – whatever the heck Mom and Dad eat.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

SEEDS...SEEDS and more SEEDS and whatever other grains they can find.

Trust me...if your birds are hungry, they WILL eat the seeds you provide...

Patience, grasshopper, patience...

Little Boy and Fat Man sure don't look like they are starving...so, not to worry...

However, I can understand your "concern" since this is your first "pijie birth." All new "adoptive" dads are nervous. With succeeding births (oh, did we forget to tell you that there WILL be more??  ), you will become an expert and be able to advise on this site too!  

In fact, you can be our resident expert on squab births from day 1 through leaving the nest! Oh, the stories!


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## paws

*Squab's Extra-Nest experience; Eek! Nest II!*

The latest failure to report: Today I went up to the roof, spread the safflower seeds onto the tarp, and gently removed the smaller squab from the nest and placed it squarely in the middle of the seeds. I then fled back inside to truck to monitor the experiment. This turned out not to be as time consuming as, say, watching a flashbulb flash. Almost as soon as I was off the roof (so he didn’t have to stay all puffed up and threatening), the little guy scooted back to the nest and, after a moment’s hesitation for the Last Rites, etc., stepped/slid/tumbled (roughly in that order, but it was sort of hard to tell as the transitions were so smooth) back down the slope and right into the sibling, who had stupidly thought this whole operation needed a closer examination. I believe at one point there were four pigeon feet sticking straight up. I almost climbed back up for an encore it was so entertaining.

Okay, so this isn’t working out. But there is worse news, at least for me and my chances of a warm abode this winter. I discovered the site of the next nest: Eight feet away, in the symmetrical twin to the first nest’s sag! No wonder all my twigs disappeared so quickly – they didn’t even have to be sent air mail! There are no eggs yet, but I fear they can’t be far away, as this nest is certainly as good as the original one, not that that’s a great accomplishment. It’s sort of like bragging about upgrading to dried dung in a cow-chip tossing contest (you U.K, etc., folks trust me on this – I certainly hope that this, uh… sport hasn’t made great inroads abroad, kind of like us not warmly embracing cricket).

I’ve read posts saying that the nest can sometimes be moved, as long as the parents can find it. My worry is that, let’s face it, with the exception of the drainage issue, these guys found a really prime spot. I can’t think of anywhere I could move it to that would be as protected, certainly not anywhere that they could find (my parents have a great spot, but they’re in Florida). I could move their entire world, i.e., the truck, right out of the building and string another tarp over the nest areas for some degree of protection, but that wouldn’t approach the safety and luxury they have now. Besides, that would mean that I would have to buy an all-weather bathrobe to wander back and forth between my living units. I guess I wouldn’t fret much if they didn’t return to an empty nest, but once the eggs are there I’d be a little distressed. Odd, since I am anything but Pro-Life when it comes to our own species!

Believe me, I’m painfully aware that this is probably just the beginning of the pigeon issues here. But by next year the gables of the building will be closed in, so the odds of finding nesting activity in my kitchen sink (“Look, honey! This sag has a drain!”) are slim. I will, I hope, build something for them to nest in, and will likely be requesting architectural advice on that. Maybe the Taj Mahal with a truck tarp inside.

I’m going to try to attach a photo of the nest locations taken before the building’s roof was added. You can see the lake in the one in the foreground: Drainage is not an option!

Jim


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## mr squeaks

If there is a roof over the tarp now, wouldn't that help protect the nest(s) or are they too near the "edge?"

I'm sure someone will be along to help with building advice! We have some members who have built their own lofts, so the info is around here SOMEPLACE with SOMEONE!

Mmmm, wonder what would happen if you took Fat Man out next??? Unfortunately, he could end up landing ON TOP of his sibling!

Sometimes I wonder who is having more "fun" - you or the squabs?! Of course, they are looking at these adventures with a different perspective: "when will the monster be back and WHAT will he do to/with us next?! HEY MOOOOOM! HEY DAAAAD!" 

BTW, that is some truck (ambulance?)!


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## paws

*Another forced nest excursion, future nest ruminations*

Right now the nests are very well protected: The entire truck is inside the building, and the building is walled and roofed. All that is missing are the gables at either end. What I’m contemplating is actually backing (well, _dragging_ – the exhaust stack is two feet below the current nest, and does not have a muffler) the truck out of the building altogether. But after reading another thread (“Humane Pigeon Control”) I might try the plastic egg routine. I’m sure, of course, that plastic pigeon eggs are available at any local convenience store up here, kind of like safflower seeds. Maybe I’ll just do the egg stealing thing without leaving a replacement. On one hand, that would save them the heartache of a non-hatching egg (and God only knows how long these guys would incubate a chunk of plastic), but on the other hand it would be obvious to them that I was just as much of a jerk as they always thought. So many decisions!

I went back and took both of them out of the nest. Little boy, the seasoned veteran, just plunged back in, while Fat Man sort of hung up on the edge. I think he took a step in and scared himself stiff. I was hoping that this would motivate him to stay out for a while, but no; after a few seconds he sort of tipped over and slid down to safety.

The truck was mainly used as a communications vehicle, although I know that at least one general had one as his private quarters in the Gulf War. Rank has its privileges: It has air conditioning. It expands to double the inside space, sort of like the ultimate in slide-outs for an RV, except that it takes one person about fifteen minutes to do it. Also, one runs the risk of huge metal panels trying to crush one if certain cables break. And these cables are likely to break: They were built during the Eisenhower administration. I had a headache for days after one such event.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Seems as if I'm the one who keeps jumping in and making comments! Since Jim is so funny, I just can't resist! I also usually have the "time" since I'm on "permanent vacation."

HOWEVER, FELLOW MEMBERS! I KNOW y'all are reading this thread, especially now that it has a 5 STAR RATING! I know members are out there who can give some excellent advice to Jim in his dilemma situation!

Actually, Jim, the parents will sit on the fake eggs as long as they would real ones before they "give up." If you can't find fake eggs - which almost seems like a foregone conclusion - there are wooden ones too and fake eggs can be ordered from various places that handle pigeon supplies. OR, you can take the real eggs, hard boil them and put them back in the nest.

Now that the two are getting their exercise slippin' and slidin' back down to their nest for entertainment purposes, won't be long before they may decide to explore their "bigger" world. Hopefully, they won't try to take a flying leap off the side BEFORE they can use those flapping appendages to make a safe landing!

Oh yeah...AND, suppose Fat Man and Little Boy decide to STAY and also build a nest (no telling - YET - if you have a hen and cock or two hens or ....) To ADD to your woes you MAY have to change a NAME!

Oh my, the decisions to make! Did you REALLY want a calm peaceful existence? Isn't this more exciting?  Hey, the rest of us are having a wonderful time!


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## paws

*Wow! A use for my Cuisinart thingie*

Don't panic - I'm not chucking anything in a blender! But, being culinarily challenged, I _do_ have this egg boiler thing. I must find the instructions to see if there is a "Pigeon Egg" setting! I also must do this in the afternoon when I'm fully awake, not around breakfast, as my standard fare is omelets. One little mistake and I get an unsatisfyingly small omelet and a pigeon gets one heck of a surprise when she returns.

The other post said that the eggs had to be replaced as soon as they are laid. Is the hard boiling time-critical too? I'm not thinking of waiting until I'm actually poaching a squab - just a few hours or so.

I, too, have a lot of free time, but, being the "glass is half empty" sort, I refer to it as "unemployed for the rest of my life."

Jim


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## mr squeaks

paws said:


> Don't panic - I'm not chucking anything in a blender! But, being culinarily challenged, I _do_ have this egg boiler thing. I must find the instructions to see if there is a "Pigeon Egg" setting! I also must do this in the afternoon when I'm fully awake, not around breakfast, as my standard fare is omelets. One little mistake and I get an unsatisfyingly small omelet and a pigeon gets one heck of a surprise when she returns.
> 
> *Nah, you should be able to quickly hardboil, quickly cool and replace soon after they are laid. Just remember that you are hardboiling to REPLACE, not for omelete purposes... *
> 
> The other post said that the eggs had to be replaced as soon as they are laid. Is the hard boiling time-critical too? I'm not thinking of waiting until I'm actually poaching a squab - just a few hours or so.
> 
> *Nope, once the eggs are laid, you can hard boil right away. No need to worry about "squablettes"...*
> 
> I, too, have a lot of free time, but, being the "glass is half empty" sort, I refer to it as "unemployed for the rest of my life."
> 
> Jim


Oh my, I have met my "almost" exact opposite. How fun! I am a FULL GLASS person...to heck with the half full or half empty stuff! If I'm drinking outta da glass, I want the FULL AMOUNT...part just doesn't cut it!   

Tell ya what, Jim, I'll take my FULL glass AND your half EMPTY ONE...that way I'll have a glass and a half! YAHOO...now..the only question left is WHAT I'm gonna put IN the glass(es)...mmmm, decisions, decisions...ROFL (literally! if you get my drift... )

Well, I'm the only one I know who refers to her so-called retirement as "permanent vacation!" Guess you know where I'M comin' from...LIFE IS GOOD!


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## paws

*Egg Snatching, The Not-So-Great Escape*

I didn’t even get a chance to test my cooking prowess: An egg appeared this afternoon, so I slipped up there to grab it and got busted by Mom. Probably giving more intelligence credit than is due, I figured she wouldn’t fall for the returned egg idea, and just swiped it for good. Maybe this is a gentle way of saying, “Get the heck out! You can’t stand me, your kids beak me, and none of you eat what you’re supposed to. You’re the houseguests from H*ll!”

Fortunately (since I can’t get the squabs to eat anything) they did not take me seriously. In fact, Mom brought Dad by this evening when I had boldly gone up to the (open) attic for some reason. They both landed on a windowsill and glared at me. If only we could read minds:

Me: “If I stand really still, maybe they will not be frightened off and we can be lifelong friends”

Her: “Look, honey, it’s that thing that took that white thing out of our nest! Get him!”

Him: “Cool! Maybe he’s here to bring more twigs!”

But eventually I moved a few inches and they fled. This was good, as I was getting sucked dry by mosquitoes.

Meanwhile, back at the nest, with a running start and a flurry of wing beats, Fat Man managed to get up the slope twice. Each time he stayed out for about thirty seconds, then hustled back in. One good thing – as scared as they are of the sloping tarp, I’m sure they aren’t going to just walk off the edge. My only worry now is that they will back over it when I reach into the nest to take them out for their daily walk. This trek isn’t exactly the Bataan Death March, although this is hard to tell from their attitudes: I put them an arm’s length away from the nest, then scoot away to let them frolic and roam their newfound territory. They frolic and roam directly back to the nest.

In a final effort to get them interested in safflower seeds, I glued a tiny cup to a small piece of plywood (for stability) and put it in the nest. I figured that they could hardly miss it there. I was immediately proven correct as Fat Man, returning from his mandatory frolic, slid right into it as he skied down the slope (“skied” as in X-Games Extreme Skiing). He righted himself, stepped right in the little cup, pooped on the plywood, and went on his merry way. I left it overnight to no avail. Neither adults nor squabs gave it a second look, although I think the whole family contributed in the pooping department.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Oh yeah, they'll fall for the returned egg...this is how many handle "pigeon population control." Squeaks thinks his wooden egg is the real thing...then, again, he really doesn't know differently. However, I've noticed that when he's out and about, he is trying to "sit" on a rock that is almost bigger than he is! Mmmm, the "bigger the better" theory???  

I guess that _eventually_ your pijies will eat the safflower seeds (maybe they are just not used to "gourmet" dining) but I bet they would be more interested in smaller seeds at this point.

Is the new nest sitting in water? 

If the squab nest is getting pretty rank, you could replace the rank twigs with new ones, that is if you still have twigs around!

Sounds as if you won't have to worry about the kids getting out of the nest on their own now. Gonna be fun seeing them "trying their wings!"


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## Whitefeather

Hi Jim,

First & foremost, your pictures/captions are wonderful, as are your continued posts.  

Just a couple comments I'd like to throw in.

*"I certainly won’t mind if the clan returns next year"*
No worries there, as they probably won't be leaving any time soon.  
Pigeons tend to stay put when they have a good thing going & are willing to 'put up with' that stranger who keeps visiting on a regular basis. 

I didn't notice, unless I missed it (which is quite possible), any suggestions on how to help these little guys learn to eat on their own. 
In the absense of the parents, & where the little ones have full view, you might want to place some of the seeds (variety, not just safflower) on the tarp & begin 'pecking' at them with your thumb & index finger, like Mom & Dad would do with their beaks. The babies I've dealt with, pick up on this 'lesson' rather quickly.  

If you notice more droppings going into the kids nest, rather than outside it, I would suggest scooping them out. They might object to having their house cleaned & will probably give you what for, but they'll get over it.  

Same goes with taking the eggs out from under Mom. She's going to give you the devil, but just reach under her, take them out, hard boil/cool them, & put them right back under her. She'll get over the intrusion as well. 
If you anticipate the 'family' becoming permanent residents & want to keep the number at 4, I would strongly suggest investing a few dollars (about $8.00, I believe) & purchase a bag of a dozen wooden eggs. They're wonderful. 

Cindy


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## paws

*Eating training, egg swapping*

Thank goodness! When I started reading the instructions on how to teach squabs to eat, I was afraid they would involve me actually pecking at and eating seeds! I imagined a car with AZ tags hidden in the woods and someone making big bucks on America’s Funniest Home Videos.

I’ll give the, uh… hand thing a try today. I’ll also dig into the fabulous seed bag and get a bunch of the really tiny seeds. They’re either “Oat Groats” or Buckwheats – I forget which (don’t laugh: I’ve never really needed to know this before), and are about the size of dried maggots. In fact, they look like dried maggots. Hmmm… How old is this bag?

The size could be a factor, although the squabs are probably at least ¾ the size of Mom and Dad, who, of course, don’t eat the things either.

Ooohh! Exciting, as-I-write-this action! Dad stopped in to feed and, on his way out, actually pecked at the safflower seeds a bit! This is a first! And the kids were watching, although I fear that their minds were on something that they thought unrelated: “Is he going to come back and feed us some more? Let’s squeak like hell and shimmy our wings! What the heck is he doing? Eeww! He’s eating the huge, mutant maggots!”

No problem doing an egg swap/cook: Both parents are so timid that I can’t imagine any resistance. Basically, when they see me, they flee in a panic. I’ve quit taking it personally. What are the advantages to the hard-boiled / wooden eggs? Reduced wear and tear on Mom’s backside? Will she keep spitting them out until she gets two to sit on?

I’ll see about getting new twigs. In fact, I can think of a place where there are some nice, soon-to-be fourth hand ones, about eight feet away!

And, speaking of the twig source, the new nest is high and dry… just like the first one was. The moisture problem is not meteorological, but intestinal. The entire nesting area, i.e., the truck, is completely under the roof. The photo I posted was from last year when things were admittedly a trifle soggy. I’m attaching an incredibly compressed (read: “poor”) before/after shot to explain. Notice the still-unfinished gables: The PigeonDoor!

This morning both the little guys made it out of the nest! Their joint ENA (Extra-Nest Activity) only lasted a minute, but earlier Fat Man wandered out of sight for about four. Time to figure new camera setups!

Thanks again for all the advice!

Jim


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## Lovebirds

Jim,, loving the pics and the posts. I usually have time to stop in, read, laugh and then go on............... 
The fake eggs or boiled eggs, whatever, will keep Mom from laying over and over. If you took the eggs and discarded them, in about 10 days, she would just lay more and the cycle would continue, so to keep her occupied for about 3 weeks, we just give them fakers to sit on. They don't know (most of them anyway) and after the alloted time, they get up and walk away and THEN lay again. It just keeps their system from getting depleted. 
Your little ones are quite the cuties.


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## kittypaws

Jim,

Your little babies are gorgeous - I love your posts - they are great as as the pictures - pidgies look like they have a good thing going with you. Glad you like the little guys as well.

You have a great set up there - pigeon nesting area heaven I think. I'd like to say something a bit more witty but I'm tired - nearly midnught here so I'll save it for another day.

Tania x


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## mr squeaks

Don't worry, Kittypaws, I'll take up the humor "slack" until you return! LOL  

OK, now, let's see if I've got this straight, Jim...everything(?) you showed in your FIRST picture is now UNDER COVER in the second? You are living in a box? Am I missing something? Isn't that rather "dark?" I admit that I CAN be a little 'slow' (sometimes when I _choose_ to be. But in this case, I AM serious...) 

Oh yes, your comment about someone w/AZ plates taking pics for A.F.H.V. never occured to me (don't know about azwhitefeather (Cindy)!). BUT, now that you have put the IDEA out there...be careful what you post! ROFL  

Sounds like Little Man and Fat Boy are really getting into the exploration stage. No longer do you have to "help" them out of the nest, eh? I also think that if you just HAPPEN to put some smaller seeds that may attract their attention, they will be scarfing them up like they are starving! Just be aware that THEN you will be in REAL trouble because they will expect this manna from heaven ALL the time! Why do I get the impression these little guys are gonna be SPOILED! They will NEVER leave! Shoot! I'll just "transmigrate" into a pigeon when I croak and come live at your place! 

YES! Do replace the eggs (hardboiled) or dummy so Mom will sit for the reasons others have listed. You do NOT want her depleting her calcium reserves with constant laying...Oh, the joy! I can see it now...special pigeons, all "native" to your area! Let's see, you started with 2...now have 4...then 6 (or EIGHT IF you have a HEN and COCK...mmmm, well there ARE other combos...) AND MORE...all within the space of about a year or so! Pigeons can be QUITE prolific! However, I know you will be population "vigilent!"

Well, I debated about posting the above, BUT forewarned is FOREARMED!! ROFL   

Bet you will REALLY be cussing playing those computer games now! Little did you know...


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## paws

*Placebo eggs, population control, boxed living*

Okay, I guess I’ve got a second career as a pigeon egg chef, at least until I order some wooden ones. Isn’t the Internet wonderful? Just type a couple words in and _voila_! People who are just dying to sell you wooden pigeon eggs. But I have another idea: My parents have a real ostrich egg. Think of the practical jokes! Hey – they already don’t like me, so what the heck? Then I can make money on the video show, right up until the SPCA sees it.

I hadn’t thought about the calcium depletion, only the poor thing being unable to sit after about ten eggs. I’m sure the Internet could provide the world’s smallest inflatable donut cushion, though.

I put the really tiny magg…. seeds up there. So far no interest, but one squab did imitate Dad’s (no way I’m claiming credit for it) pecking at the safflower seeds, so there is hope. Even Dad seemed to have a bit of a problem: Much pecking, little eating. The immediate environs of the nest sag are beginning to look like some sort of shrine: Various seeds, bowls of water, etc.

I may have to do some serious population control in the coming years. Fortunately the wooden eggs are cheap. A few pigeons are fine (I’m planning some major soundproofing in the construction), but Hitchcock’s The Birds is a little extreme.

And yes, I do live in a box. It’s like when you order stuff: You get a big box (the building) and little ones inside it (the trailer, the truck, various cars). And yes, it’s an incredibly gloomy place, but anyone who’s spent a few winters up here has learned to live with gloom. That’s what puts mankind at the top of the heap: Electric lights! That and wooden pigeon eggs. The gloom is a real blessing in the summer, though. If you look really closely you’ll notice the white color of the rear windows in the trailer. They aren’t really white – it’s aluminum (aluminium to some of you) foil. Alaskan stores, especially in the north, sell a lot of that stuff every spring as the days become disturbingly long. Being the cheap guy that I am, I just never take it down. I love darkness.

Ultimately I’ll live upstairs where you see the two large windows framed in, but I’m in no great hurry. Besides, there are the little roommates to worry about. To get as far as I have has taken about three years, but in my defense, the pyramids took a lot longer, and they had a lot more help.

Jim


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## Lin Hansen

paws said:


> But I have another idea: My parents have a real ostrich egg. Think of the practical jokes! Hey – they already don’t like me, so what the heck? Then I can make money on the video show, right up until the SPCA sees it.
> Jim


LOL Jim, your comment made me think of a previous thread where our member "littlestar" (Mary Ann) told about and posted pictures of her birds accepting and sitting on big plastic Easter eggs! Not as big as the ostrich egg, but pretty cute and funny. Thought you might enjoy checking out the thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15046

Am really enjoying all your updates!

Linda


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## mr squeaks

I hadn’t thought about the calcium depletion, only the poor thing being unable to sit after about ten eggs. I’m sure the Internet could provide the world’s smallest inflatable donut cushion, though.

*Don't worry about excess sitting! Mr. Squeaks sits for hours and hours day after day! (mmm, wonder if I should take away his wooden egg?) I'm beginning to think he's carrying this "daddy mode" a little far! Actually, Phil (pdpbison) does great "donuts" with the towels/washclothes he buys!*

I put the really tiny magg…. seeds up there. So far no interest, but one squab did imitate Dad’s (no way I’m claiming credit for it) pecking at the safflower seeds, so there is hope. Even Dad seemed to have a bit of a problem: Much pecking, little eating. The immediate environs of the nest sag are beginning to look like some sort of shrine: Various seeds, bowls of water, etc.

*Well, just consider the "shrine" as part of the "bowing" down offering alms to the little ones! Besides, I just think you haven't found the "magic" seeds yet...obviously, they are not food deprived! LOL  *

I may have to do some serious population control in the coming years. Fortunately the wooden eggs are cheap. A few pigeons are fine (I’m planning some major soundproofing in the construction), but Hitchcock’s The Birds is a little extreme.

*Awww, they wouldn't be attacking! Just think of yourself as St. Francis with all your wonderful pigeons landing on you for the "alms" you provide!  *

And yes, I do live in a box. It’s like when you order stuff: You get a big box (the building) and little ones inside it (the trailer, the truck, various cars). And yes, it’s an incredibly gloomy place, but anyone who’s spent a few winters up here has learned to live with gloom. That’s what puts mankind at the top of the heap: Electric lights! That and wooden pigeon eggs. The gloom is a real blessing in the summer, though. If you look really closely you’ll notice the white color of the rear windows in the trailer. They aren’t really white – it’s aluminum (aluminium to some of you) foil. Alaskan stores, especially in the north, sell a lot of that stuff every spring as the days become disturbingly long. Being the cheap guy that I am, I just never take it down. I love darkness.

*I have read about people who don't get enough light becoming SAD(?) or is that MAD? Well, lucky you...this site will probably save your sanity! Along with your computer games (well, maybe NOT the games!)  Actually, I've seen many windows here with that shiny stuff on 'em. 'Course, the light/sun is much more intense down this away...AND, there ARE people who like to live in the "dark" here too! Don't visit them too often tho because I just want to find a corner, curl up and start hibernating!*

Ultimately I’ll live upstairs where you see the two large windows framed in, but I’m in no great hurry. Besides, there are the little roommates to worry about. To get as far as I have has taken about three years, but in my defense, the pyramids took a lot longer, and they had a lot more help.

Jim[/QUOTE]

*Well, LOL, I distinctly remember your comment about "send more birds" and something about being "lazy." Just be glad you are not building with large stones!  Besides, people were BURIED in those pyramids - or are you going two for the price of one?! *


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## paws

*I should have never mentioned Hitchcock!*

This pales in comparison to Mr. Hitchcock’s effort, but I had a rather suspenseful Birds thriller of my own a few hours ago. I was in the trailer and, as usual, had the PigeonCam on the television (no life whatsoever!) and witnessed a very strange, to me, and scary event. Little Boy may have tried to snuff his sibling. The following pictures are each about a minute apart, so this was a five minute nail biter. Ever so slowly and Insidiously, Fat Man (I swore I wouldn’t officially name them, but it certainly saves time) got shoved up the steeply sloped tarp towards the 11 foot drop, which is probably 100 pigeon feet. At the last instant, though, he ran right over the diminutive evil doer's back to safety. I hope he snapped the creep’s spine.

In reviewing the photos, it really looked premeditated. Further damning was that one of my previous shots had caught Little Boy staring thoughtfully down over the edge. I think that makes it Murder One if it succeeds. Do pigeons practice fratricide (or maybe sororicide)? I know, for example, boobies chicks (squabs?) will endeavor to shove each other out of the nest in times of scarce food, but, as many have commented, these guys are so well fed they may _never_ fly. Do I have to rig safety netting all around the truck? Put OSHA approved safety harnesses on them? Send them to counseling?

Jim


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## Skyeking

I LOVE the pictures. 

The babies are really beautiful and looking healthy. Hopefully before they take any steps their wings will be almost fully developed and feathered to allow them a softer landing. That doesn't mean, I wouldn't still keep a close eye out on them, as anything can happen once they DO fall, they would not be able to get back to the nest. Is there anyway you can put a barrier up between them and the "DREADED "over the" edge?


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## Maggie-NC

Hi Jim, I've been MIA for a couple of weeks and I'm trying to get caught up on all the threads I missed - yours being one of them. 

Your thread has been great and kudos to you for helping these pigeons survive. I do believe you've enjoyed every minute of it.  

In defence of Little Boy (and, by the way, one of our first rescues about 12 years ago was named Little Man) I think that he is simply trying to get under Fat Man for warmth or comfort. They do this a lot. Fat Man just needs to scoot down a little more.

Thanks for the great entertainment.


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## maryjane

Lin Hansen said:


> LOL Jim, your comment made me think of a previous thread where our member "littlestar" (Mary Ann) told about and posted pictures of her birds accepting and sitting on big plastic Easter eggs! Not as big as the ostrich egg, but pretty cute and funny. Thought you might enjoy checking out the thread:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15046
> 
> Am really enjoying all your updates!
> 
> Linda



That is absolutely hilarious. Those pictures of the birds on the easter eggs are priceless. I have a miniature chicken who lives in my pigeon aviary (was a lost chick from a neighbor and got into my old aviary at a day or so old and I couldn't ever catch her to get her out, so now she thinks she's a pigeon). The chicken laid some eggs in May for the first time and not only did one of my biggest pigeons, aptly named Romeo, get on her and get some loving, but then he got in her nest and started laying on her eggs (of which there were four at that point, regular sized chicken eggs lol). 

For dummy eggs I've used a number of things....from small glass rounded figurines (little pigs), to walnuts, to bouncy balls. Now I do have some of the regular wooden eggs but it's not nearly so colorful  

Jim, if you're not some sort of writer (other than on here), I'd love to know why not. I've come across very few people with a wit and easy writing style such as yours. I love reading the latest each day, knowing what a laugh is coming. Everyone else, too, Mr. Squeaks especially. This thread alone would be an excellent start on a very humorous book


----------



## mr squeaks

Obviously, Mary Jane, Romeo is a "full figured" bird lover! Since his "honey" is bigger, only stands to reason that the eggs would be too! Bet that didn't faze him one bit! Probably was hoping to raise "giant" pijies!

I also agree with you, Mary Jane...Jim should be a writer. If you ARE already, Jim, then thanks for allowing us to see "your" pijie world! Hey, maybe you ARE a famous writer going by a pseudonym (pen name)...

Personally, I think that now you have the initial rearing of squabs under your belt (in a manner of speaking), you should let the parents have one more pair so you can relax and enjoy...ROFL  With your cameras, you could film a documentary, complete with dialogue and sell it to the Discovery Channel, Walt Disney or some such!  

I am surprised that Little Boy was the culprit! I would have suspected Fat Man as he's the bigger one and could easily shove his sibling up and over!  They will be able to fly soon enough but I don't think they are quite ready for the "leap" without a parachute or Bungee cord!

Mmmm, maybe you could make a BIG pile of something to "cushion" their landing, just in case??? Say -ah -dirty laundry? Lots of towels? I'm sure if we all put our heads together we could come up with a solution - IF the siblings can co-exist until then... 

Those guys (gals? Guy & Gal?) are turning into real beauties! They sure look great!

BTW, their latest adventure sounds like the epitomy of "sibling rivalry!" You been paying more attention to one than the other? mmmm?


----------



## maryjane

I'm thinking.........miniature parachutes! Possibly a red-and-white combo for Fat Man, and something in lavender or perhaps teal for Little Boy. After all, Jim, what with permanent vacation and all, you should have plenty of time to learn a bit of fancy stitching! Looking forward to seeing the designs...... 

And yes Pidgey, Romeo probably was thinking just exactly along those lines. Funny story how he got his name; I had rescued him from one of the San Francisco shelters around November, four years ago. For Christmas Santa brought my first "store-bought" (non-rescued) birds (though technically it was a rescue, as they'd been in a tiny cage for more than a year in this pet shop ). The store birds were all black, fan-tails that came over their heads, round and pouty and sexy twins with feathers on their feet...you know the type. My birds then lived in the house and as soon as I set those two down on my bed, Romeo went crazy. He was Darth-Vadering, swooping in circles around the two and kept falling off the bed in his excitement. "Twins!" You could hear him thinking, over and over. "What luck! Twins! And all for me!" It turned out that Huffin and Puffin (the twins; every move they made was a major ordeal since they were so feather-laden and not used to moving around more than a tiny area) thought that arrangement was fine, and they set up a menage-a-trois in the corner and went to town. They never were very healthy birds to begin with (gee, staying in a tiny cage with no flying or sunlight or fresh air can do that to a guy, huh?) and we lost one in the first year and then the other, in February of this year  despite my best care. So Romeo was definitely in the market and I imagine that chicken was kind of a two-in-one deal to him, since she's even bigger than he is! (And he's a giant white king, as broad as he is long, with great big sexy feet lol). He has since hooked up with a delicate little helmut girl....who also has feathered feet. Well off I went on another story there, oops. This site and this thread, especially, seem to inspire stories


----------



## mr squeaks

*And yes Pidgey, Romeo probably was thinking just exactly along those lines.* 

Hi Mary Jane...uh, just a *tiny* correction...I think you were referring to me, Mr. Squeaks instead of Pidgey. My name is Shi (female human) and I am Mr. Squeaks' mate and live in AZ. Pidgey is a male (human) and lives in Tulsa, OK...BIG DIFFERENCE...Pidgey has not posted on this thread. Now, the fact that you have mistaken me for Pidgey, is, I think, hysterical! Don't think Pidgey might think so though!    

Also, Jim refers to himself as "being unemployed for the rest of his life." Quite different than my "permanent vacation" version of my retirement...our life views are somewhat different as he likes half empty glasses and I like 'em filled to the brim! ROFL

Anyway, your story about Romeo and the twins was a riot! But, I'm so sorry you lost the twins! I wish Romeo the best although those twins would be hard to replace! How many pijies have had THAT experience!

Also think your parachute idea is great! Who knows what hidden talents Jim hasn't told us about!

Jim is sure learning stuff about pigeons....FAST...

So how goes the sibling rivalry, Jim? And did mama pij lay another egg?


----------



## paws

*Parachuting Pigeons, Seed Peckers, Safety Rails*

_"Who knows what hidden talents Jim hasn't told us about!"
_
Actually, in a former life I was a paratrooper and am a licensed skydiver. On a more relevant note, I also once chucked a cat off a third floor balcony wearing an artillery illumination flare parachute. In hindsight, maybe _the cat_ should have been wearing the chute. The trick, by the way, lies in avoiding the claws. And your sister.

No more possible attempted murders. Maybe the little guy _was_ just looking for warmth. I’ve seen him do it a few times since, in much less precarious spots. But maybe he’s just a determined little thing: If you push something long enough up there, it will eventually come to an edge. Kind of like Columbus’ fourth ship.

The big news is that they both ventured from the nest today, and roamed ten feet into the world (tarp) for about seven minutes, even doing some fairly serious pecking at some of the plethora of seeds that are up there. I was inside and could hear the “thump-thump-thump” on the roof. They’d better not be putting holes in my tarp. Just because _I_ did does _not_ make it acceptable!

In one of my more prescient moves, I ordered a bag of safflower seeds along with the wooden eggs. Now that they may actually eat the things, I don’t want to spend quality time picking through a bag of parrot seed, time I could better spend, uh… well, doing something… maybe painting Easter eggs. Let’s face it – the mail doesn’t get up here terribly quickly (snow’s gone – dogsleds are slower), so I’ll need something as a stop-gap. So far, though, no new eggs. Let’s see… she laid the egg on Monday, so the next one is due around next Thursday… Come on, U.S. Mail! Mush, doggies!

As far as nest safety goes, there’s not much I can do. The edge in question is just the tarp drawn taut – nothing solid to attach to. I could make some sort of a low (maybe 6”) wall around the rest of the truck roof – I certainly have enough building materials – but I don’t see that as a real problem area. At least not yet: They are awfully tentative when they’re out of the nest.

Jim


----------



## Whitefeather

paws said:


> Actually, in a former life I was a paratrooper and am a licensed skydiver.
> *On a more relevant note, I also once chucked a cat off a third floor balcony wearing an artillery illumination flare parachute. In hindsight, maybe the cat should have been wearing the chute*. The trick, by the way, lies in avoiding the claws. And your sister.
> 
> Jim


  

Cindy


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## kittypaws

Jim,

I'm like Cindy - I don't like the bit about the cat. Pigeon people often like cats too. Maybe you need to elaborate or tell us you were just joking...... 

Tania x

PS Babies are cute.


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## mr squeaks

I see Tania and Cindy beat me to the punch! When I read about the cat, I fell off my computer chair! At first I thought I had had a heart attack but realized I was just in SHOCK!

And here I was having such a good time posting my version of humor to your humor posts, Jim! O MY...a person who doesn't respect (like?) cats? I can't handle this. I am a cat person as well as a pigeon person (the cats came first). WE (I mean THEY) WERE worshipped in Egypt, y'know! There were reasons for this! 

I realize that brothers LOVE to tease their sisters (are you the oldest? Probably younger I would bet!) but swiping Barbie dolls and throwing a cat off the balcony, are quite different...

OK, enuf chastisement...I guess you get the picture...I don't DARE ask is the cat was hurt...*SIGH*

Well, I'll just HAVE to take the chance that, judging from your posts so far, you ARE a kind soul and have seen the error of your cat ways?

Oh the pain of it all...I have to go have a beer or two...and calm down...double *SIGH*


----------



## Whitefeather

kittypaws said:


> Jim,
> 
> I'm like Cindy - I don't like the bit about the cat. Pigeon people often like cats too.
> *Maybe you need to elaborate or tell us you were just joking*......
> 
> Tania x
> 
> PS Babies are cute.


If the incident was factual, I don't want to hear the details. If it was a joke, it wasn't funny. 
Let's just carry on with the pijjie stories.  

Cindy


----------



## maryjane

mr squeaks said:


> *And yes Pidgey, Romeo probably was thinking just exactly along those lines.*
> 
> Hi Mary Jane...uh, just a *tiny* correction...I think you were referring to me, Mr. Squeaks instead of Pidgey. My name is Shi (female human) and I am Mr. Squeaks' mate and live in AZ. Pidgey is a male (human) and lives in Tulsa, OK...BIG DIFFERENCE...Pidgey has not posted on this thread. Now, the fact that you have mistaken me for Pidgey, is, I think, hysterical! Don't think Pidgey might think so though!
> 
> Also, Jim refers to himself as "being unemployed for the rest of his life." Quite different than my "permanent vacation" version of my retirement...our life views are somewhat different as he likes half empty glasses and I like 'em filled to the brim! ROFL
> 
> Anyway, your story about Romeo and the twins was a riot! But, I'm so sorry you lost the twins! I wish Romeo the best although those twins would be hard to replace! How many pijies have had THAT experience!
> 
> Also think your parachute idea is great! Who knows what hidden talents Jim hasn't told us about!
> 
> Jim is sure learning stuff about pigeons....FAST...
> 
> So how goes the sibling rivalry, Jim? And did mama pij lay another egg?


Oh my, I'm so embarrassed.  I can only claim confusion from reading about forty other posts before this one lol, and seeing Pidgey's name so much as well as yours. And here I thought I was doing so well And then to get the "unemployed for the rest of my life" and "permanent vacation" mixed up......*red cheeks* I suppose I should break the reading into shorter stints, that might help.


----------



## paws

*I feel like the Dixie Chicks on tour in Texas!*

Wow! You donate to charity, help the elderly across streets, save babies from flaming building, and cure cancer, but does anyone remember? But run amok with a hatchet just once, and you’re an axe murderer for life!

This is not the first time my sense of humor has gotten me in trouble, so I am a bit calloused to it. But the event was based on some truth: I knew a guy who did this (see my previous life – this guy was way ahead of all of the rest of us). The cat was fine. The guy was not: It worked so well that he tried it. Cat: 3 pounds. Small child: 50 pounds. Could this have been an issue?

That all being said, this story came from a paratrooper, so its veracity is not guaranteed. I did, however, see the x-rays of his ankle, and to my untrained eye they looked legit.

Historically, though, there is a history of animals parachuting from the sky. The military has trained search dogs to jump out of airplanes, and in a more avian note, a British lieutenant jumped into Arnhem in WW II with his pet chicken, Myrtle. As I recall (from reading – I’m not that old) he would release the chicken a few feet off the ground, since the parachutes back then did not guarantee a feather-soft landing. Myrtle would flutter down and meet him on the ground. I believe an American paratrooper had a pet rabbit, but my cursory web search didn’t find anything about it.

At any rate, save the hate mail for when I reveal, say, that I’m an axe murderer or something.

Must go dig through bag of seed.

Jim


----------



## paws

*Clarification*

Disclaimer:
I did not cure cancer.
I do not own a hatchet.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

maryjane said:


> Oh my, I'm so embarrassed.  I can only claim confusion from reading about forty other posts before this one lol, and seeing Pidgey's name so much as well as yours. And here I thought I was doing so well And then to get the "unemployed for the rest of my life" and "permanent vacation" mixed up......*red cheeks* I suppose I should break the reading into shorter stints, that might help.


Iz awright, Maryjane! I thought your post was quite humorous actually! Besides, YOU have NOTHING to be embarrassed about! I AM the President of the Jr/Sr Moment Club which can get myself in heaps of trouble sometimes AND, not only because I have a memory shutdown! Besides, that's what I get for having all this time to post - I DO get carried away!  

I hear you about the number of posts. Two hours after checking new posts, there are twice as many more! Good heavens! If I miss a DAY, I'm in BIG trouble...


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## mr squeaks

OUCH! I bet you were really shocked to log in and find THREE people were jumping on you! Thank goodness you said you were shaped like a large tennis ball! Hopefully, we didn't permanently scar you! Guess to find out how people REALLY feel about a certain animal, say something controversial...won't take long to get a response!

Well, in my heart of hearts, I KNEW you couldn't/wouldn't be a cruel person to animals of the fur and feather kind! However, my cats would never have forgiven me if I hadn't said something in their defense.

So, what mischief are your two adopted kids getting into nowadays? Are they learning to pick up the wonderful alms you leave? (I will assume that just getting up ON the top of the truck is enough "bowing" even for spoiled squabs!)

What are the parents up to? Have you named them yet? Mom and Dad (Pop) seem soooo mundane!


----------



## paws

*Sticks and Stones, No Seeds, No Names*

Yeah, the assaults were a shock, but, like I said, I get this every so often. Such is the pain of a warped sense of humor. Believe me, this pales in comparison to someone feeling “uncomfortable” about me at work last year. Next thing you know I was on paid leave (whee! Practicing for retirement!) and being interviewed by shrinks. You know the old Helen Reddy song, Angie Baby? There’s a line in there that goes something like, “It’s so nice to be insane – no one asks you to explain.” Let me tell you, that is pure, unadulterated bullpoop! I was explaining my butt off! But all’s well that ends well: I sort of achieved martyr status with 90% of my co-workers, who knew the whole thing was ridiculous, and I didn’t have to go to work for a while! Cool! I guess it’s a sign of the times. Once the issue was raised, they certainly couldn’t ignore it, even if they knew it was silly. Something about lawyers.

Okay, on to the subject matter, whatever it is. I know it’s not cats now. The squabs (are they still squabs, or have they become something else?) apparently have short memories. No tarp pecking at all as far as I could tell, although they did do a little in the nest, which is sort of like giving up a fine linen tablecloth for the bathroom floor. I think there are a few seeds in there (I surely hope they were seeds!) from the earlier feeding attempt involving a piece of plywood. When Fat Man did the grape-crushing routine in the seed bowl, I’m sure some were ejected. Swell: Not only were they in poop, but they probably smelled like dirty feet, too.

Dad drops in on the nest a few times a day for a minute of two. I see Mom maybe once a day. No more eggs yet. Lots of yelling, probably still about me swiping the last one. I have a little angst that they have moved to yet another nest – would they do this if they were obviously happy enough to lay the egg? I think I startled Mom off the nest only once, so it’s not like they would think it’s a bad neighborhood all of a sudden. The squabs are driving me …uh, crazy in this vein: You know how a cat will apparently stare intently at a blank wall, so you eventually have to look at it too, even though in reality the cat is re-booting its brain or something? Well, the kids have taken to staring intently down over the edge of the nest. I have twice wandered around to that end of the truck to see if there’s a new nest there that they might be watching. I get there, have a look around, then glance up to see these two tiny heads peering smugly at me. Great – they can’t figure out the seed eating thing, but they’ve mastered practical jokes! Wait ‘til they grow up. I’m praying one’s a female – I’m getting the ostrich egg!

And no, I don’t have names for Mom and Dad. It wasn’t until a couple weeks ago that I even knew which was which. Besides, it’s kind of hard to have a good feeling about naming things that you almost never get to see in the flesh because they are so skitterish. The evening in the attic, when they sat on the railing fifty feet away for a few minutes, was by far the longest I’ve ever seen them. Thank goodness for cameras!

I didn’t want to name the little guys, either, partially because as mentioned, I may have to change a name or two as the genders are determined. Or maybe I can take them to a doctor in Scandinavia to have something done about the problem. Remember – it the facts contradict the theory, new facts must be found.

Jim


----------



## Feather

They are precious! It's along way down guys.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

ROFLMAO! I can't believe you fell for their "staring!" How funny! Actually, they are only contemplating when and just HOW they are going to "launch." Of course, the fact they "fooled" you is only icing on the cake! A couple of VERY smart pijies there - and starting soooo young too! Easy to see they might very well be able to solve the "gravity" problem!

Yes, people can be strange, scary and obnoxious to deal with at times. Some more than others, of course...took me YEARS to find out what "tact" meant! My daughter is still learning (she has the dubious distinction of being the fastest member banned on this site. Of course, ONCE the perfectly plausible explanation was known, all was righted and forgiven. She too, has a wacky/warped sense of humor!)

Mmmm, wonder if Mom and Dad started another nest someplace else. Usually, she would lay another egg, but not always. I know you and your cameras will be ever vigilent!

Getting kinda hard to tell the siblings apart...the parents are the same! 

(DARN! I, too, stare at the walls like my cats...thought everyone did! See stuff too! And, NO, I am and was NOT....)


----------



## maryjane

paws said:


> Wow! You donate to charity, help the elderly across streets, save babies from flaming building, and cure cancer, but does anyone remember? But run amok with a hatchet just once, and you’re an axe murderer for life!
> 
> This is not the first time my sense of humor has gotten me in trouble, so I am a bit calloused to it. But the event was based on some truth: I knew a guy who did this (see my previous life – this guy was way ahead of all of the rest of us). The cat was fine. The guy was not: It worked so well that he tried it. Cat: 3 pounds. Small child: 50 pounds. Could this have been an issue?
> 
> That all being said, this story came from a paratrooper, so its veracity is not guaranteed. I did, however, see the x-rays of his ankle, and to my untrained eye they looked legit.
> 
> Historically, though, there is a history of animals parachuting from the sky. The military has trained search dogs to jump out of airplanes, and in a more avian note, a British lieutenant jumped into Arnhem in WW II with his pet chicken, Myrtle. As I recall (from reading – I’m not that old) he would release the chicken a few feet off the ground, since the parachutes back then did not guarantee a feather-soft landing. Myrtle would flutter down and meet him on the ground. I believe an American paratrooper had a pet rabbit, but my cursory web search didn’t find anything about it.
> 
> At any rate, save the hate mail for when I reveal, say, that I’m an axe murderer or something.
> 
> Must go dig through bag of seed.
> 
> Jim



Myrtle the parachuting pet chicken! ROFL!


----------



## paws

*What's a good neighbor for?*

My neighbor has some suspicious activity in his greenhouse/former chicken coop (or, as the survey crew reported it, “coupe” – sporty chickens, to be sure). He’s not sure what it is, but it’s winged. The last freeloaders were squirrels, so, barring some hyper-evolution, this is a different family. He didn’t get a good look, though, so this may be a false alarm. Still, it is a possibility. How far apart are their nests usually? This is about 300 feet from the current one. I can’t see which way they go when they leave my place (something about living in a box), but they do generally come and go through that end of the building.

I may have to loan my neighbor some camera gear. Not to boast, but I think their new location, is vastly inferior to my truck, although maybe the young ‘uns won’t be doing the breaststroke in poo. He has a dog and kids who will take great interest in this business.

Not that I’m complaining, of course.

“_…kinda hard to tell the siblings apart...the parents are the same…_”
Remember: We have a very limited selection of mates here. This family tree may not branch. On that matter (limited selection, not ********), I found out that there are a fair amount of feral pigeons in Palmer, a town about 15 miles away. Palmer’s roots were agrarian – it was the hub of a rather far-fetched depression era program to transplant folks from upper Minnesota, North Dakota, etc. to Alaska, probably to show that that life really _wasn’t_ all that bad, after all. To this day there’s a fair bit of agriculture there, and therefore, I assume, a fair amount of seeds to be had. I’m guessing that this pair is originally from there, possibly ostracized after making someone “uncomfortable” at work.

The squabs’ interest with The Edge is a little disconcerting. When I go up there to rotate the alms they back right up to it, balancing on the edge like a psycho holding off police by threatening to blow his own head off. “One step closer and we’re ending it, right now!”

I have a feeling this is how they will ultimately learn to fly. Based on their wing beating demonstrations to date, I think they would actually land okay, kind of like Myrtle the para-chicken, but I would then have to chase down a scared, yet still highly mobile pigeon as it scooted about under the truck and the trailer. The former wouldn’t be so bad – I can easily “duckwalk” (wow – we’re up to three kinds of birds in this paragraph!) under the truck, but the trailer would be a disturbingly good refuge.

They did some pecking at the seeds again this morning, so I promptly ran up there and left all kinds of great stuff for them. They, of course, backed up to the edge and haven’t moved from it since, occasionally shooting suspicious glances towards the Sea of Seeds in between naps.

Jim


----------



## mr squeaks

paws said:


> My neighbor has some suspicious activity in his greenhouse/former chicken coop (or, as the survey crew reported it, “coupe” – sporty chickens, to be sure). He’s not sure what it is, but it’s winged. The last freeloaders were squirrels, so, barring some hyper-evolution, this is a different family. He didn’t get a good look, though, so this may be a false alarm. Still, it is a possibility. How far apart are their nests usually? This is about 300 feet from the current one. I can’t see which way they go when they leave my place (something about living in a box), but they do generally come and go through that end of the building.
> 
> I may have to loan my neighbor some camera gear. Not to boast, but I think their new location, is vastly inferior to my truck, although maybe the young ‘uns won’t be doing the breaststroke in poo. He has a dog and kids who will take great interest in this business.
> 
> *Mmmm, don't know about dog and kids! What KIND of dog and how old the kids? Hopefully, the pijies are smart enough not to build a new home TOO near where "others" can get to them!*
> 
> Not that I’m complaining, of course.
> 
> *Well, I AM! Don't want to see YOUR pigeons in jeopardy! I mean, after all, after seeing all the adventures through your eyes and the camera lens, I've grown quite attached to the feathered ones!*
> 
> “_…kinda hard to tell the siblings apart...the parents are the same…_”
> Remember: We have a very limited selection of mates here. This family tree may not branch. On that matter (limited selection, not ********), I found out that there are a fair amount of feral pigeons in Palmer, a town about 15 miles away. Palmer’s roots were agrarian – it was the hub of a rather far-fetched depression era program to transplant folks from upper Minnesota, North Dakota, etc. to Alaska, probably to show that that life really _wasn’t_ all that bad, after all. To this day there’s a fair bit of agriculture there, and therefore, I assume, a fair amount of seeds to be had. I’m guessing that this pair is originally from there, possibly ostracized after making someone “uncomfortable” at work.
> 
> *True, but often the parents are different morphs (colors) and so are the babies! You may just have a WHOLE family of CHECKERS! We'll never be able to tell ANYONE apart!
> 
> Well, I'm sure they "escaped" for a good reason! OR, maybe they are the first in their group to become TRUE explorers of the unknown!*
> 
> The squabs’ interest with The Edge is a little disconcerting. When I go up there to rotate the alms they back right up to it, balancing on the edge like a psycho holding off police by threatening to blow his own head off. “One step closer and we’re ending it, right now!”
> 
> *Oh OH, looks like you aren't "bowing" enough. Of course, they could be naturally "shy." The bigger they grow, the closer the edge!  *
> 
> I have a feeling this is how they will ultimately learn to fly. Based on their wing beating demonstrations to date, I think they would actually land okay, kind of like Myrtle the para-chicken, but I would then have to chase down a scared, yet still highly mobile pigeon as it scooted about under the truck and the trailer. The former wouldn’t be so bad – I can easily “duckwalk” (wow – we’re up to three kinds of birds in this paragraph!) under the truck, but the trailer would be a disturbingly good refuge.
> 
> *As if we didn't have enough to worry about! Well, one step (flight?) at a time...*
> 
> They did some pecking at the seeds again this morning, so I promptly ran up there and left all kinds of great stuff for them. They, of course, backed up to the edge and haven’t moved from it since, occasionally shooting suspicious glances towards the Sea of Seeds in between naps.
> 
> Jim


Sometimes, Jim, "less is more." Don't worry they will get to those seeds...preferably without you there! Cautious, suspicious little buggers arent' they? I can just hear them now: "Who IS that big bald bird?! YIKES, he's baaaack! Where IS the privacy?! Mooom! Daaaad!"


----------



## paws

*Neighborly Accomodations; The Gong Show*

If the neighbor’s intruders are, in fact, Mom and Dad, they aren’t in an altogether unfortunate place. His kids are old enough to understand and obey instruction, although certainly at the age of curiosity. The dog is usually fenced into a different section of the yard, and if the coop door is kept shut won’t be a problem. She’s a ridiculously friendly thing, so I imagine that she wouldn’t mean any harm, but is also sort of hyper and not terribly sure where her feet are at any particular time. My late and lamented dog would have been great – he grew up in a zoo-like house and was fantastically gentle. A couple of the cats would flop down across his front paws so he could groom them and nibble for ticks or whatever the heck they had. 

But this may be moot. My neighbor is pretty sure that the prospective parents were not of pigeon size, although he certainly didn’t get a very good look.

I found that staring wasn’t all the squabs were doing over the edge. Sometimes their backsides were hanging over there too. So I put a large (about 2’x3’) sheet metal tray on the floor under that area to keep a modicum of cleanliness. What I didn’t expect was that I had just installed a poop alarm. I was sitting inside the truck and heard a muted gong go off outside. It took me a few seconds to figure it out. One of the squabs is still stumped. He’s been staring intently straight down over the edge for at least five minutes. In the interim, the sibling has set the gong off twice.

I’m guessing that shyness is hereditary. These guys are way beyond timid: They’re outright terrified when I go up there. Interestingly, the Original Beaker, Fat Man, doesn’t really puff up anymore unless things get really out of hand, like I do some nest renovation. Even then he doesn’t maul me half as much as the other twit. I think much of his angst, in fact, is that he’s going to get beaked as collateral damage when Little Boy flies off the handle.

As long as they are together, I can tell them apart (is there some contradiction there?). Fat man is darker. In particular, the area of his back between his wings is grey, Little Boy’s is white. For all I know, however, this could be some sort of immature stage. I think the parents have sort of the same thing, though.

When do these things start to fly? Fat man sort of hops as he beats furiously away, but Little Boy remains firmly planted. By all laws of physics the opposite should be true: Getting Fat Man airborne is sort of like flying a brick. I can hear the thumps as he hops up there.

Jim


----------



## Lovebirds

paws said:


> When do these things start to fly? Fat man sort of hops as he beats furiously away, but Little Boy remains firmly planted. By all laws of physics the opposite should be true: Getting Fat Man airborne is sort of like flying a brick. I can hear the thumps as he hops up there.
> 
> Jim



They will start "helicoptering" (?) at about 28 or 29 days. Probably around 32 days or so, they will take little short flights. By 35 days, they should be pretty good at getting from Point A to Point B and back again. I think the wild babies are a little slower in learning. In a loft ( mine anyway) I take most of the babies away from their parents at 25 days and by 28 days or so, they are flying up to a perch.


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## mr squeaks

Mmmm, going back to your first post, Jim, Little Man and Fat Boy are about 28 or 29 days old...about another week and you are gonna be having flying young ones getting into all kinds of mischief! 

No longer will they have to just "look" over the 'edge' estimating distance x speed x landing! Of course, they may STILL drop bombs!! I mean, after all, they are not "babies" any more and are well into potty training! ROFL  

I SURE hope Mom, Dad, and kids WILL stay close to build new homes! Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!!


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## mr squeaks

paws said:


> If the neighbor’s intruders are, in fact, Mom and Dad, they aren’t in an altogether unfortunate place. His kids are old enough to understand and obey instruction, although certainly at the age of curiosity. The dog is usually fenced into a different section of the yard, and if the coop door is kept shut won’t be a problem. She’s a ridiculously friendly thing, so I imagine that she wouldn’t mean any harm, but is also sort of hyper and not terribly sure where her feet are at any particular time.
> 
> *Sounds like a great dog! Although sometimes "hyper" can hurt even if unintentionally.*
> 
> My late and lamented dog would have been great – he grew up in a zoo-like house and was fantastically gentle. A couple of the cats would flop down across his front paws so he could groom them and nibble for ticks or whatever the heck they had.
> 
> *YOU have been "redeemed!" I'm sure your dog was just acting "parent" and the cats did NOT have ticks! Quite heartwarming how some different species "adopt" another species...*
> 
> But this may be moot. My neighbor is pretty sure that the prospective parents were not of pigeon size, although he certainly didn’t get a very good look.
> 
> I found that staring wasn’t all the squabs were doing over the edge. Sometimes their backsides were hanging over there too. So I put a large (about 2’x3’) sheet metal tray on the floor under that area to keep a modicum of cleanliness. What I didn’t expect was that I had just installed a poop alarm. I was sitting inside the truck and heard a muted gong go off outside. It took me a few seconds to figure it out. One of the squabs is still stumped. He’s been staring intently straight down over the edge for at least five minutes. In the interim, the sibling has set the gong off twice.
> 
> *See my above post about "potty trained"...  Who knows, maybe they are going to have a "contest" to see who gets closest to whatever "bullseye" they decide..."bet I can drop ON TOP of yours!" *
> 
> I’m guessing that shyness is hereditary. These guys are way beyond timid: They’re outright terrified when I go up there. Interestingly, the Original Beaker, Fat Man, doesn’t really puff up anymore unless things get really out of hand, like I do some nest renovation. Even then he doesn’t maul me half as much as the other twit. I think much of his angst, in fact, is that he’s going to get beaked as collateral damage when Little Boy flies off the handle.
> 
> *BIGGER isn't always better! Ya gotta watch out for the little guys! Ever hear of a "Napolean" complex?  Some just take a little longer to - ah - 'mature'...*
> 
> As long as they are together, I can tell them apart (is there some contradiction there?). Fat man is darker. In particular, the area of his back between his wings is grey, Little Boy’s is white. For all I know, however, this could be some sort of immature stage. I think the parents have sort of the same thing, though.
> 
> *The white and grey may stay...could be how you will able to eventually tell them apart!*
> 
> When do these things start to fly? Fat man sort of hops as he beats furiously away, but Little Boy remains firmly planted. By all laws of physics the opposite should be true: Getting Fat Man airborne is sort of like flying a brick. I can hear the thumps as he hops up there.
> 
> Jim


*Have no fear, Fat Boy just needs to practice more "LIFT!" Of course, he could be a slow learner (or smart as a fox!). Little Man is lighter, has more energy and can check out the lay of the land before Fat Man commits! Smart boy!*


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## paws

*The squabs become party animals!*

I think Fat Man must be in the early stages of helicoptering – kind of like those black and white movie clips of early human aviation attempts that usually end with major structural damage to the putative aircraft and/or pilot. Good to know that his development is pretty much on schedule.

In this case _more_ is more. As I wrote, yesterday I left a mass of seeds – many varieties as suggested, and little happened. Then, this morning, they discovered Bird Seed as a Form of Recreation. They discovered the food fight. They were out of the nest for up to half an hour at a shot, jogging in the food dish, experimenting with the footbath (we generally call it a water dish), and doing their silly helicopter impressions to further spread the seeds. They spent up to thirty minutes at a time in feeding/food fight frenzies. Remarkably, they also found time to eat some of their playthings. A good time was had by all. They are now balled together in the nest, probably thoroughly exhausted and stuffed to the point of gastric distress. The Gong Show has been quite active.

What's next, toga parties?

Please pardon the non-pigeon related photos. I had to show the “Napoleon Complex” at work: My parents’ wiener dog going toe-to-toe (or maybe canine-to-canine) with my cat-grooming dog. Of course, just maybe, my dog wasn’t trying his hardest. What a slacker!

Jim


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## Skyeking

The first pic is DEFINITELY pigeon related, I would love to hug both those cuties. My youngest is too old to cuddle now.  

The dog pics are absolutely hilarious (the dogs themselves, are very cute), I would love to see them playing together on a video. LOL


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## mr squeaks

As always, your descriptions of early explorations and subsequent activities are absolutely hysterical and first rate! 

I can see that you have their best interests at heart by supplying all that is needed for their development AND entertainment! After all, ALL work and NO play isn't any fun! Besides, look what neat things they can do with a little water and seeds! If their water container is big enough and they decide to take a bath...are YOU in for a treat! Of course, they ARE a little young yet... 

Just consider your gong show as a sign of healthy squabs...what goes in, eventually...

Love the dogs! Terrific pictures! Amazing how a large and small animal will play together and bond! Some animals are "natural" mother types. Gypsy, my large black cat, thinks Timmy is her kitten and she still insists on licking Bubba's little ears! She also wanted Squeaks to be her "kitten" too but since he wouldn't "cooperate," she gave up. Just as well since cat saliva isn't good for pijies!


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## Maggie-NC

Wonderful pictures. The pigeon on the left looks like he's saying "what's up doc". And what pals the dogs are. Boy, your white dog has mighty big teeth.


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## paws

*More Waterpark Fun*

Traditionally, one gets one’s Single Engine Land pilot’s rating before getting a seaplane ticket, but rebel that he is, Fat Man is working on both at once. Twice his helicoptering attempts have ended ignominiously in the new and improved water hazard/footbath. I took up a heavier, ceramic bowl figuring that they wouldn’t spill it when tending to foot hygiene. The trouble is that it is about six inches in diameter, which greatly increases the odds of its being on the receiving end of an emergency landing. No problem: He hopped back out instantly, his feet clean as a whistle.

The sibling is not in immediate danger of drowning. So far both feet remain firmly planted despite up to ten seconds of furious wing beating. I think Fat Man will be taking flightseeing tours long before Little Boy ever slips the surly bonds of earth (or truck). This could be a problem because I think he is hypothermic and hence spends a heck of a lot of his time burrowing under his (much) larger nest mate. I must apologize to him for my previous belief that he was a fratricidal killer. No, I’ll do nothing of the sort – He’s still trying to kill me which, pardon my selfishness, I find a trifle more disturbing.

And speaking of disturbing, Fat Man tends to do a lot of his flight training at the very edge of the truck. Given his less than stellar directional control, this is rather alarming when I watch it on the PigeonCam. Maybe it gives him the real thrill of flight – looking down eleven feet at the ground (concrete) below as he soars (flutters) above. Maybe he’s a thrill junkie. Maybe he’s just not right bright. Whatever. His motivation is not important, but I foresee an exciting afternoon following him under the truck and the trailer as Little Boy’s body temperature drops. Do they make really, really, small dart guns?

On a sadder note, no video of the doggies is available. Those shots were back when camcorders cost as much as a used car and I was shoveling cow poo for a living (I have many former lives). Rule of thumb: Few people shoveling cow poo for monetary gain are worth as much as Bill Gates. At any rate, my best friend of a dozen years passed away long ago, but I still miss him dearly.

Jim


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## paws

*Watch That First Step!*

Sorry to pop in again so soon, but the inevitable happened, although not quite as I expected it. Fat Man fell from the truck. Don’t worry – he’s fine. I was partly to blame for this event, but I don’t think he knows it: Otherwise I’m sure I would have been severely beaked.

He was on his usual perch at the edge of the nest when I opened the trailer door. This has happened countless times before, but apparently this time his center of gravity was just a little too far forward, so when he straightened up at the noise, off he went. I saw this happen live on the PigeonCam, so I flipped on all the lights, grabbed a flashlight, and darted around the truck, anticipating that the chase was on.

It was most anti-climatic. There was Fat Man, perched on a two foot high stack of lumber about five feet from the truck. He must have landed on it by chance, as there’s no way he could have hopped back up (for one thing, I could hear him fluttering all the way down, and there was no subsequent flutter, so he was where he had initially landed). I walked up to about five feet from him, expecting the sport to start, but he just stood there, not even puffed up. I guess this sort of makes sense: Up until a minute before, _I_ had been the most traumatic thing that ever happened to the squabs, but I was strictly small potatoes at this point. Modern organizational development people call this a paradigm shift, I think.

So I chatted briefly with him, “I come in peace – please do not beak me. Please do not run under the truck. Please do not run under the trailer. And for God’s sake, please do not run under the ambulance, which is so low you’ll hit your head and I'll have to figure out where the heck my broom is.” Well, I may not have gone into that much detail.

At any rate, I walked slowly up to him and he just stood there, so, as gently as possible (given that all my instincts were screaming, “Grab him! Grab him! Grab him before he wakes from his daze and goes for your eyes!”), I scooped him up with one hand. Cool! So far, so good! There was the expected fluttering, so I cupped the other hand over him and headed for the ladder. Oh, yeah – did I mention that the ladder is almost vertical? So there I stood, with both hands occupied, at the base of a precarious ladder.

I actually made it up halfway up before the laws of physics took over and I had to reach for a rung. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to use the hand above the pigeon, not the one holding it. Fat Man, fresh from his last vertical experience, chose not to push his luck and stayed hunkered down in my palm. I got a couple of rungs further and managed to reach my Fat Man hand up to the roof so he could step off. Fat Man, fresh from his last vertical experience, chose not to push his luck and stayed hunkered down in my palm. Swell. What a time to become friendly. I tipped the hand one way. He clambered up the other way. I reversed the process. So did he. Finally, I climbed a couple more rungs so I could lay the hand totally flat and, after an eternity (1 Eternity = about 10 seconds), he grudgingly stepped off.

Then there was the wandering in the wilderness period, since he couldn’t see the nest with his four inch high eye. Eventually, though, with a few hints, he was reunited with Little Boy, who seemed far more concerned that I was up on the roof again than that his sibling might have plunged to his death.

To make a long story short, which is, at this point, impossible, Fat Man has now learned a basic lesson about flight: Do whatever you want – that guy will find you and help you home!

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Oh, Lordy...I MUST invest in a printer! To heck with encouraging you to write a book! I'll just print my own "book!" Even reading posts for a third time, I still howl with laughter! Of course, I DO realize that I'm not on the other end of this story!

What a first experience for Fat Boy! Thank goodness you did not have to chase or "broom" him as the case may be! Well, consider this experience to be of things to come! Once Fat Boy has a chance to calm down and think about his "near death" experience, he MAY want to try again...and again...and...you DID say that you don't have any other life at this time, right? If he truly IS a thrill seeker, you are both in for thrills galore! 

Wait until Little Man decides to get into the act! By that time, tho, you can get Little Man FIRST as Fat Boy already has the "experience." I can just hear Fat Man now, on his next flight down, "WHEEEEE!" Hey, how can one become an "expert" without practice???

Of course, there is ALWAYS the possibility that Fat Boy will want to see just how fast your timing really IS on subsequent jumps! Generally speaking, pigeons are very smart.

BTW, Little Man is no fool...he'll let "big" brother do all the dangerous stuff FIRST...and you thought Fat Man's first 'flight' was an accident?!  Ho Ho Ho Ten bucks says Little Man "pushed" him, sorta by - ah - accident!


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## paws

*Rafter Pinball*

A big day on the truck roof. The whole family was up there for about twenty minutes and, just like human kids, the squabs got some food, then went and hung out the far corner of the truck, as far away from their adults as possible. This was all the better for Mom and Dad, who were into the early stages of he-in’ and she-in’. Or perhaps Dad was practicing for the demolition derby at the state fair. He kept dashing up as if he was going to ram Mom, who, in turn, was totally unimpressed. Personally, I think the “There are a lot of other fish in the sea” approach was not completely thought out, given that, well, there don’t seem to be any other pigeons in the area. But I’m no expert.

After the festivities were over Mom and Dad fluttered up and out of sight into the rafters, followed by Fat Man. Whoa! That was a surprise! Considering that his highest and longest flight to date (not counting his excellent downwards adventure the other night) had been maybe three seconds and one foot, I was stunned. So, probably, was he. The rafters are a little under two feet apart. He had to fly between them to land atop. I don’t think things worked out smoothly.

Dad Takes Off: “Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter….”
Mom Takes Off: “Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter….”
Fat Man Takes Off: “Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter –Bang – Bang – Thud!”

I’m guessing he went through the rafters like a pinball, then made a navy carrier landing onto the plywood attic floor.

Then there was a sad sight: Little Boy scurrying around on the truck, pathetically beating his wings to no avail and emitting little squeaking noises. I almost went up there to console him, but realized that, all sadness aside, I would be in for a vicious beaking. But the grief wasn’t long lasting: After maybe five minutes there came a familiar, “Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter- Flutter –Thud!” as Fat man returned. In his defense, he did not actually rock the truck on landing, possibly because the truck weighs ten tons.

An hour later the scene was repeated, but this time he disappeared for about half an hour. Always the worry-wart, I finally climbed up the ladder to the attic, fearing that he had followed the parents right off the building. I didn’t fear for his health – by now he had demonstrated that merely slamming into the ground at about five hundred miles an hour was not a cause for alarm – the problem was that he would have to levitate sixteen feet to get back into the building. Kind of a, uh… tall order for something whose previous best was the five feet to the rafters. But there he was, perched on the future windowsill (see the photo I posted of the shop) with Mom and Dad.

Next panic: The parents sighted me and, since I was well within their two mile exclusion zone, fled into the trees. Fat Man, wise beyond his years (days) glanced at me, glanced down twenty feet, decided he had enough bruises, sprains, and concussions for the time being, and stayed put. So chatting him up the whole way, I slipped by and went to the far end of the building where I could monitor the situation. He stayed on the sill for a couple of minutes, then hopped to the floor and walked out onto a rafter for his return trip. And froze. He tried one angle. He tried another. He tried turning 360 degrees. He tried turning the other way. Somehow things apparently just didn’t look right. It didn’t help that Little Boy was madly squeaking at him (Little Boy rule of thumb: If it flies, it feeds you). Finally he made the plunge and dropped cleanly between the rafters to land on the truck with his trademark thud.

In other news, I’m ready for the next wave: I received my wooden pigeon eggs in the mail! Now, if I can only figure out where they are nesting. It had better be on my property! Can you get a refund for wooden eggs? This may have been a really crappy investment.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Oh MY! These adventures are really getting involved and funnier by the post! NOW, the fun begins, especially with you, Jim. The pijies are doing great but you are going to become a nervous wreck! (mmm "going?" think all the signs are in place now! LOL) You might have to change your schedule and be up at dawn and not get any rest until it's really dark!

The parents didn't stay at their new nesting site on your tarp??

Fat Boy is really getting some flight time! I'm sure Little Man will be joining him soon, although I DO hope that his first experience doesn't involve falling - er - "flying" off the truck first!

I am sure that some members would be glad to pay you for some of those wooden eggs. Of course, I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of them yet. I mean, your adventures may only be beginning! Your place could become "PIGEONS 'R US"...rofl !!


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## paws

*Little Boy Levitates!*

Wow! These guys have a steep learning curve! When I awoke this afternoon I turned on the TV to check the PigeonCam, and there were no pigeons to be seen! After an hour or so I decided to poke my head up into the attic to see how things were going, so I crept up the ladder and found… no pigeons there, either. Uh-oh… Time to check the ground at either end of the building for squabs staring upwards in utter distress. None at the first end, so I walked towards the other end of the attic. Just then I heard a soft scurrying noise and a couple of squeaks behind me. I spun around and there were the kids, furiously scurrying out from behind a sheet of plywood, headed to points unknown, but certainly not near _me_. Ultimately they ended up above the nest, with Fat Man resting on a 2x4 that is apparently the launch point for the truck dive, and Little Boy ten inches away, still on the attic floor, squeaking loudly about being abandoned. Sure – he could fly straight up five feet, dodge between rafters (or perhaps bounce through) and land on the thing from below, but the ten inch hop was way too scary.

And speaking of scary, I had to slip behind him to get back to the ladder. When that was over he was essentially spherical, puffed up to the point that I’m not sure he would even _fit_ between the rafters, and aerodynamics were right out the window.

I went below to leave them to their own devices (or perhaps gravity) and they were back on the nest a few minutes later. They went back up a bit later and stayed for hours. I took advantage to change their water (which hasn’t been touched since the early flight attempts) and, drawn by some screeching in the attic, I peeked up from the top of the truck. The entire family was perched on four consecutive ceiling joists eight feet above the attic floor, with the kids raising heck, probably about food. Great – I order safflower seeds from across the continent, and they’d rather eat puke!

All in all, a great day! How long before the little guys fly away for good or, more to the point, when can I seal up their entryways when they fly away for fifteen minutes or so? I’m thinking of building a large box in the window opening that they favor so I can put safflower seeds and the ceremonial water out for them, but sealing it so they don’t get any nesting ideas (Mom and Dad are apparently not going to use the second nest they started). Maybe I’ll put the actual nest in there – it is now sort of a congealed mass of twigs, squab poop, seeds, and other, unidentifiable things. I bet it would move as a unit.

One sort of pressing issue (in addition to actually having a livable dwelling by this winter) is that I'm going on a one month trip in ten days, and don't really have a substitute pigeon butler.

Why go to all this work? Because I’m a nice guy? No – because I now have about five pounds of those darned safflower seeds! I have a dozen wooden eggs, too – maybe I’ll chuck them in, as well!

On the subject of squab nesting, how long before they start into amorous pursuits? Do they do it the same season? I have a hunch that Fat Man is a guy and Little Boy may be a girl. In another thread I read of the males having more of the purple/green feathering. Fat Man definitely has it, Little Boy doesn’t. Is that a reliable indicator? Both parents have it, but I think Dad’s is a lot more noticeable.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Hopefully, our quaified rehabbers will be along to advise you about "releases." The "kids" are well on their way to independence.

Once you seal off access to their nest, they will have no choice but to find another spot. Unless you build some type of "loft" for them, they may decide to leave for parts unknown OR investigate to see what your neighbors have to offer. After all, you are building a box and there doesn't seem to be anyplace for a future "pigeon estate."

If all decide that your area is the place to "colonize," they will be around when you return - hopefully.

Just sprinkle those Safflowers around to use up before you leave. I'm sure there are site members who will be willing to buy your wooden eggs...

Have really enjoyed your adventures and can't thank you enough for the laughs! 

BEST OF EVERYTHING!


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## paws

*Upwards Immobility*

Okay, maybe I worry too much, but the kids are at it again.

Yesterday featured the first extra-building activity as (predictably) Fat Man flew out of the gables to Uncertain Areas. One of the drawbacks of living in a giant box is that once something leaves it, it is awfully hard to track. I need more cameras! At any rate, he showed up on the PigeonCam a few minutes later, so his trip apparently went well. Of course, we are only a few days separated from when a trip that “went well” meant no visit to the emergency room after the landing, so this is not necessarily a major accomplishment.

Now the, well, weird news. In the early afternoon both youngsters flew up to the attic. It’s now about 4 AM and they have not come back down. So maybe they like exploring or something. No, they’ve been rooted to a couple of ceiling joists for at least the last eight hours, not moving more than a few inches. They moved more than that in their nest! It’s now dark and relatively cool (about 50F), yet they aren’t even trying to snuggle together. By now Little Boy would normally be peering out from under Fat Man’s butt in the search for heat. Very odd! I just went up to “tuck them in” with a little dish of food and even delivered a few morsels directly to a nearby 2x4 at great personal peril (pecking, hell! It’s a 16 foot drop onto the concrete that will get you!). 

The really irksome thing is that I may have to move my cameras if this keeps up. On the other hand, this could be the beginning of the long goodbye. Sort of a bittersweet idea. I’m glad they were such, ah… jerks. It’s not like we had a warm, mutually caring relationship. The only way to avoid serious beaking was to wait for one to plummet from the top of the truck and grab him before he came to his senses. Even that might not have worked with Little Boy. If they had followed me around, watched TV (“Hey – That’s our nest!”), cleaned the dishes, etc., the departure would be sad, indeed. Still, I’m going to miss them – at least there’s been something good on TV for the last month!

Jim


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## paws

*Movin' on up to the East Side*

The guys have been upstairs for over 24 hours now. At least they aren’t still on the same two rafters – at some point they moved to the second ceiling joist from the open east end of the attic and are perched there, gazing into the woods, probably wondering what exotic treasures await them there and, more importantly, if that guy would continue to bring them food and footbath should they happen to go there.

So I moved all their food and the footbath upstairs (“Don’t let the door hit you in the butt!”) and, of course set up monitoring devices. Thank goodness for the Patriot Act – I’m sure this amount of snooping would have been illegal before it was passed. If they don’t return to the nest for a couple of days I’ll start removing it and the rest of the high-tech wizardry up there.

Of course, they might be back: “You know, this attic area seemed really peaceful, but now the food and footbath guy keeps coming up here… maybe we should just go home!”

Jim


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## mr squeaks

LOVE the latest picture!

Yep, the guys are getting ready to fly the coop! 

Too bad they won't have access to inside the "box." Your chances now of monitoring future pigeon births are gonna go down the tubes, so to speak!

In the few days before you leave, you might check to see if you can find out where the parents are re-locating in the area. 

Don't think the kids are going to leave permanently...yet...they may still return to the nest or what's left of it...even if they venture out into the big wide world...


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## paws

*Attic Living*

The truck nest seems to be history. The squabs are happy attic dwellers, even though they have to balance on floor joists to sleep. Of course, given the condition of their nest, this might be the lesser of two evils.

Well, usually happy dwellers. This evening I heard the usual “Feed me! Feed me!” screeching, but there were no adults in sight. The guys were just sitting together on “their” joist, squeaking away. What the heck? Of course, humans in the Alps are known to stand around yodeling for no reason, so I guess we’re not ones to talk.

Dad seems to spend a fair amount of time up there, a lot more than during either the incubating or early childhood development stage. I’m sure this is very significant to pigeon experts, but what it means to me is that I can’t go up to the attic. He would freak, followed by the squabs, who normally tolerate my presence as long as I stay a respectable distance away. Yesterday I climbed up there after first scanning the area with the PigeonCam, but it turned out that Dad was hidden behind a board. So he flew off, leaving the kids looking frantically around to see what impending doom awaited them. A couple seconds later the terror got the better of them, so they fled as well, both probably worried silly that whatever terrible thing Dad saw was going to attack the Guy Who Maintains the Seeds and Footbath. Why doesn’t he just fly away? Oh, the Horror!

When they flee they sometimes just hook upwards onto the roof, other times end up in the trees, and yet other times go to Points Unknown. The roof is the fun one: Apparently they’re not too wild about the slope, so they tend to land on the peak, which is a full-length sheet metal vent. Then they decide that they really wanted to be at the other end, and, forgetting about the flight thing, run almost the length of the building. How do I know? Because there is this delightful “tick-tick-tick-tick…” at something like three ticks a second as they scurry along the sheetmetal.

The cameras are doing their best, but the new, sunny area tends to baffle them a bit. Still, I got a couple somewhat overexposed shots, one of Little Boy planting a kiss on puffed-up and proud looking Fat Man (hey – this sort of stuff is legal in Massachusetts) and another of stretching exercises. What have pigeons come to today? It used to be they could just take off on a whim. These guys do extensive stretching, maybe a bit of yoga, then generally forget that they were planning to go flying in the first place. At any rate, I think Fat Man looks confident and composed. Little Boy, perhaps because he’s looking outside the building – at the 24 foot drop, doesn’t seem to share these emotions. “We’re going to do what?”

Hope the pictures come out okay – I’m experimenting with lowering the resolution after I used up way too much of my budget with shots of homes and dogs.

Jim


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## Maggie-NC

Jim, the pictures are great. I love the silly look on Little Boy's face as he's planting a kiss on Fat Man. You're really going to miss these little guys. They look very healthy.


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## mr squeaks

The kids look GREAT! Looks like they are just about ready to fly away and make their own way in the world. 

Wonder if they are male and female? The kissing wouldn't be so strange then.

Are you going to close off your box so they can't get in before you leave?

Are they now eating your "offerings? Dad usually does do a lot more feeding as they get older.

Are you going to be able to update us after your return from your month's sojourn??

Hopefully, parents and kids will still be around...


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## maryjane

They look great! As for wondering if they're male and female, it's my understanding that every pair of eggs contains a male and a female, 100% of the time. I've never had eggs hatch otherwise. Has anyone else?? I'd love to know. So I think you've got a Little Girl there lol. I'm sure sorry this story is nearing its end; hopefully mom and dad are laying on new eggs somewhere he he he.


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## TAWhatley

maryjane said:


> As for wondering if they're male and female, it's my understanding that every pair of eggs contains a male and a female, 100% of the time. I've never had eggs hatch otherwise. Has anyone else??


Hi MaryJane and all,

This male/female ratio has been discussed many times on the doves-pigeons list that I belong to. While over the very long term, obviously, there is a pretty even percentage of 1 male, 1 female in each clutch .. otherwise there would be a shortage of one sex or the other. It is quite possible for both babies in a clutch to be female or both to be male.

Here's a link to some information from Dr. Wilmer Miller's site .. probably more than you really cared to know ..  http://tinyurl.com/l2eo6

Terry


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## mr squeaks

Well, now, Jim...won't this be fun. Let's see...you have a proven pair (parents). Then, if Fat Man is male and Little Boy is now Little Lady AND assuming they decide to become mates, you may be well on your way to establishing a pigeon colony! 

Of course, hopfully, the pair will have a place to build a nest that is to their liking! Darn! With the loss of the tarp AND the attic, what's a pair to do?

What else do you have around where you live that would meet with pigeon nest building approval, Jim? We already know their standards are not high (relatively speaking)! 

Unfortunately, trees are not the answer as pijies don't build nests like other birds, IF they "build" a nest! LOL


----------



## Whitefeather

maryjane said:


> They look great! As for wondering if they're male and female, *it's my understanding that every pair of eggs contains a male and a female, 100% of the time. I've never had eggs hatch otherwise. Has anyone else?? I'd love to know. * So I think you've got a Little Girl there lol. I'm sure sorry this story is nearing its end; hopefully mom and dad are laying on new eggs somewhere he he he.


Hi Maryjane,
Our Mikko & Pij'ette gave birth to two females. As they say, the proof is in the egg laying & Sadie & Sam (Samantha) lay just about as many eggs as their Mom. Of course all three sit on artificial eggs.  

Cindy


----------



## paws

*Travel Plans, Housing Plans*

It looks like I won’t be closing the place in before I leave: The departure date is only four days away, and the squabs don’t seem to be in a hurry to move out. I’m certainly not going to forcibly evict them, so my worry is that this process will be repeating itself when I return. It probably won’t be the same parents – I haven’t seen Mom in days – but when do squabs reach parenting age? These guys really grew up fast!

I’m planning to leave the majority of the seeds available to them when I leave. I probably have four pounds of safflower and three pounds of the strange parrot stuff. I’ll keep a little in reserve in case they are still there when I get back, since I had to order the safflowers last time.

They do a pretty good job of spreading the seeds around, and I think they are actually eating them. I suspect that this is one of the reasons Dad hangs out, too. They still don’t touch the water, though.

There really isn’t any other good potential home on my property. That’s why I was thinking of some sort of a window box if worse comes to worst. The attic is completely unfinished – it looks like a tunnel of lumber, so I could make a small room at the end they use, sort of like a closet with a window. That way their usual entry would still be usable.

Then, assuming these guys actually do leave at some point, I can reclaim my home with little work. Next summer I’ll probably build some sort of shed to see if they are interested.

I’m guessing that Fat Man is a boy, and Little Boy is a, uh… girl, but the guess is based on very little. Fat man definitely has a lot of purple and green coloring, Little Boy does not. This was cited as evidence in another thread ( http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16748 ), and that’s the extent of my education.

Jim


----------



## Skyeking

maryjane said:


> They look great! As for wondering if they're male and female, it's my understanding that every pair of eggs contains a male and a female, 100% of the time. I've never had eggs hatch otherwise. Has anyone else?? I'd love to know. So I think you've got a Little Girl there lol. I'm sure sorry this story is nearing its end; hopefully mom and dad are laying on new eggs somewhere he he he.


Ken and Archamedes had three rounds of eggs one year, every single one of them was a boy. The last round of eggs, I replaced with one of Hamilton and Coopers eggs, and it turned out to be a girl! So they had 5 boys, and one adopted baby girl!  They can be either boy or girl or boy and boy, or girl and girl. 

It is very possible that the little one is a hen, and it is also possible then that they might stay together as they grow up if there is no intervention.



Jim,

The babies are very healthy and good looking birds, hope you come back to experience another round of kids!


----------



## mr squeaks

Glad the kids will have a place to "stay" while you are gone. Sure hope they will be there when you return!

Mom may already be sitting on more eggs, which is why you haven't seen her. Usually dad seems to be the last to be with the kids.

Hope all goes well on your leave and all will be well when you return! Let us know!

Who knows, you could end up writing a "series."  

At this point, I would be willing to bet that the kids are male and female!


----------



## maryjane

Apparently it is a myth that they hatch one male and one female every time. I started a new thread just to see what people had to say and found some interesting information (thanks everyone). It's so funny, since out of around 40 pairs of squabs I've hatched over the years, there have been one male and one female out of each clutch! And only one time was the female hatched first. Guess no one told my pijies that it's just a myth.  Now that they know, they'll be want to be hatching male pairs and female pairs right and left I suppose. Good thing we've got dummy eggs.  As for Fat Boy and Little Boy/Girl, usually the green/purple coloring does mean a male. Of course there are exceptions there, too, for example my Mrs. Bird, who we thought was a Mr. Bird due to her green and purple coloring, until she laid eggs. :


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## Birdmom4ever

Well, you do get one male/one female much of the time. I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was about 75%, but I could be wrong about that. Seems to vary from loft to loft and perhaps among breeds or families of pigeons. I recall a breeder friend saying he got predominantly males from his nuns. From my own experience, we've had male/female chicks about 75% of the time.


----------



## kittypaws

Jim,

Your babies are adorable - real lookers too. 

I think some of your intervention on keeping them safe and making sure that they had food has really helped them. 

You should be a proud dad!!  

Tania x


----------



## paws

*There's no place like home!*

Here I am, half a world away, and I just have to drop in. Really nothing more than a delayed departure report. I almost had something to write about – a missing pigeon. Fat Man was missing in action (or sleep) last Sunday night. I was leaving in a day and just knew that I‘d be fretting for the whole month about his whereabouts – possibly in something’s digestive tract. But then, mid-day on rainy Monday, there was a bunch of squeaking in the rafters as Little Boy/Girl rejoiced at his return, and he likely gave a less than glowing report on the outside world. “Wet stuff falls from the sky. No one pukes down your throat. No one delivers seeds. Basically, it stinks!”

So I’m probably stuck with them forever now.

On Tuesday morning I left a couple huge piles of seeds up there, said fond farewells, and headed to the airport. I may get occasional updates from my neighbor, but I suspect I won’t know the pigeon status until I return in mid-September. This is sort of like when the Apollo spaceships disappeared behind the moon and lost communications for a while, except that this isn’t being faked on a sound stage somewhere. 

Jim


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## mr squeaks

Sooooo glad you updated and will look forward to hearing from you when you return! Sure hope all will be well with the guys...AND, glad to hear Fat Man was not "lost!" 

Will your neighbor be checking on them? Giving them seeds and water?

Take care...we will all send "protective thoughts" to the kids!


----------



## kittypaws

paws said:


> This is sort of like when the Apollo spaceships disappeared behind the moon and lost communications for a while, except that this isn’t being faked on a sound stage somewhere.
> 
> Jim


My other half Colin - thinks it was a fake too.......  

Hope the little guys will be OK - I am sure they will and we will hear from you in a month I guess!! 

Tania x


----------



## paws

*The Empty Nest*

Well, I’ve been back at the homesite for a couple of days now and there have been no pigeon sightings. This didn’t come as a great surprise since my neighbor had reported their absence, plus I eventually got a rather dodgy bit of software to work that allowed me to view the attic from the other side of the earth. I checked their sleeping quarters at night, turning on a light (dodgy software, but fun!) and they were empty. Sadder, though, was the view of the food dish: Empty. I just know the guys waited and waited, their little tummies growling, just knowing that I wouldn’t abandon them. It was heart breaking, or, as a major paper headline reported of Katrina, “Heart Rendering.”

The food disappeared so fast that I’m guessing the whole family, plus possibly my neighbor, were involved in its consumption. That gives me confidence that, since the parents were around, and the (not so) little ones were fully flight capable, they probably followed Mom and Dad and learned just what the heck they were supposed to eat if they were unable to rely upon the kindness of strangers.

At any rate, I am now apparently free to continue my home construction. I’m going to build a temporary huge windowsill on the window they generally came and went from and stock it with seeds in case they get homesick on occasion. It would be nice to see them every so often, although the downside would be that if I stopped seeing them, I would fear the worst.

I must say that this experience has certainly caused me to notice pigeons more, and I fear I have some sort of pigeon attractant: I surfaced in the swimming one day on the trip and there were two of them doing basic hygiene at the other end. One typical gray one, the other white with gray trim, sort of speckled. As a novice, I had to assume it was, in fact, a pigeon due to its partner. It could have been a dodo for all I knew. Or maybe a toaster. At any rate, it would be excellently camouflaged in the Alaskan winter (or spring, or fall...), but I cannot imagine its advantage there in Thailand. Maybe it’s cooler than the gray ones in the sun. The pair were happily doing their thing at the other end, and proved entertaining. There was a slightly submerged rim to the pool, descending to maybe a half inch deep, then came the edge of the continental shelf: At least four feet, straight down. These guys were having a little trouble finding the edge. "This is cool... this is cool... this is cool... Yikes!!!" Then there would be a panicked flutter of wings and the bird would pop back out all the way to dry land. It was like shampooing – wash, rinse, repeat. Finally other humans showed up and they fled. They stopped by a few more times so I started taking my camera to the pool and eventually got a distant shot of them.

But back to the present. I guess I’ll be signing off at least until next year, when maybe the guys will return to whatever rudimentary loft I come up with. I will, however, likely be lurking about for information on that (“You mean some people don’t use geriatric army vehicles?”). I want to offer my sincere thanks to all who helped me through this Wild Kingdom experience. I certainly would have been lost without the assistance, and the birds would still be wondering what the heck to do with the Big Macs and beer I left for them right beside the little bicycles with training wheels.

Maybe in the future I’ll try my luck with pet pigeons, preferably ones that don’t beak me constantly. This would have to be after I’m old and infirm so I won’t be traveling the world. Maybe the week after next. I’d like to wait until the odds were good that the birds would outlive me, as I still mourn my dog, and he’s been gone for 15 years or so. The cool thing is that as long as I left a lot of seeds out, they would live long enough to be rescued when someone finally wondered why they hadn’t seen me lately. Given the dearth of my human interaction, maybe I’d better keep the living room filled with seeds. A dog, on the other hand, even a tiny dog (I’m not thinking Chihuahua here – after what happened to Pluto, how long before it is reclassified as a rodent?), could only live off my corpse for so long, even given the essentially spherical shape of my body.

Go ahead, Chihuahua fanatics, flame me!

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Whitefeather

Thanks for stopping by to give us an update Jim.  
You know, those babies may very well be nearby. Don't be surprised if you hear a bit of 'pecking' at the window some morning.  

We so enjoyed the stories about your feathered feral family. Thanks for taking such good care of them.  

The pigeons in your picture are stunning.  

Take care & don't be a stranger. 

Cindy


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## mr squeaks

WELCOME BACK! Just talking about you the other day and hoping you would post.

Those pidgies are BEAUTIFUL! According to Cornell Lab of Ornithology and their morph (color) categories (less than pigeon fanciers), your two look like a Spread (all one color) and a Pied (color w/white).

Hopefully, you will be blessed with pijies again soon! LOL

Until then, PLEASE, don't stop posting. I am sure that all who have read you posts have enjoyed! Surely you must have humorous adventures with your - ah - construction. Who else lives in a cave? 

There must be other kinds of animals around too. I'm sure we will all be happy to hear about life in a place most of us just dream about! Speaking for myself, I can always enjoy life in "another" world. The catch is to REMEMBER...but that's another story.

You will find a ready audience with us! 

BTW, did you know that pigeons can live to be over 20 years? There are PLENTY of pijies who need a good home - even those who can't fly anymore. You won't believe the fun you can have! AND, there are even pigeon "diapers" for the more fastidious among us!


----------



## paws

*A Hairy Experience*

There certainly are other little critters about. I had a brief moment of hope yesterday when I heard some squeaking from outside when I was in the truck. It didn’t sound quite right, but still I dashed out to investigate… and almost collided with a woodpecker. A hairy woodpecker, I believe. A hairy woodpecker is either:

(a) _Picoides villosus_ – a medium sized bird featuring a wide white supercilium with a broad black band that extends through the eye to the ear coverts (which sounds awfully painful), a black moustachial stripe and a comma extending from the side of the neck to the upper breast. Thank you, Mr. Gore, the Internet, and the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology. Now please send an English interpretation. Or…

(b) Any woodpecker that thought that the overturned Propecia truck was a seed eater’s dream come true.

At any rate, after the near miss she landed on the side of the building (what do these guys have, suction cups?) and waited for her brood to catch up. Along came a couple little things, maybe half her size and what the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology would likely refer to as “Spreads”. In other words, they didn’t look a darn thing like Mom. They were colored a lot like, uh… spread pigeons. So that’s what Little Boy and Fat Man’s dad was doing while Mom sat patiently on the nest!

I recall another experience with the mother woodpecker, early this summer. I was awakened by a knocking sound and found her excitedly burrowing into a hole in one of my rafters, salivating over what tasty morsel might have made it. Little did she know that the hole was actually made by a gripper of a truss making machine, a machine the size of a small house and likely _way_ above her in the food chain.

Hmm… 20 years. Let me do some math… No, I still have to wait for a while. That would still leave me short of the average death age by a few years, and I come from a distressingly long-living family. Of course, genes can be overcome with the proper application of fast food, so all is not lost.

Jim


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## Lin Hansen

Jim, yes, thanks for the update.

Everyone enjoys your posts, so don't be a stranger!

And thanks again for all you did to help the babies.

Linda


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## mr squeaks

MMM, wonder if the pijies spread the word to stay at your place! I'm sure the pijies had glowing reports. Of course, if the kids had anything to say about it, they would have warned of the "strange monster" who lives there - although said monster does supply seeds.

Still early yet...kids may be keeping an eye out for your return. Wonder if some scattered seeds would attract them back?

Never heard of a "hairy" woodpecker! New adventures in the making?? 

BTW, Cornell people are still chasing after an elusive, thought to be extinct, woodpecker...


----------



## kittypaws

Hey Jim,

Glad you are back - don't worry I am sure your little friends will return at some stage - there are at least 4 of them now isn't there?

If you just make the homestead attractive - food and lodgings - who knows...... 

And for goodness sake drop in on the site - why what else is there to do in those cold Alaskan winters except "surf" the net and watch TV!!  

Tania x


----------



## mr squeaks

Any updates? We'll take anything! Woodpeckers, bears, and whatever else lives around where you do!

Heck, we'll even take your Mr. Handyman building adventures! Give you a break from cussing the computer games! DID you finish building a "refuge" for any future pijies coming to check out your place? Hopefully, a visit from the "kids?"

How about a weather report? Getting snow yet? 

please?


----------



## paws

*News: Lack Thereof*

No signs of the pigeons. I don’t know when they decide that it is getting too cool to sit on eggs, but it’s in the thirties at night nowadays. No snow, but it isn't far away. I put some seeds out, but no takers yet: I wonder how long they continue to check on former food sources before giving up?

The woodpecker family has been by several times. There must be a hollow tree somewhere nearby. Once they even fooled me into opening my door, sort of nature’s version of a “Knock-Knock” joke, I guess. On the brighter side, they didn’t leave a flaming bag of poop on the doorstep.

A few magpies stop by every so often. No knocking, but they are constantly yelling about something – possibly the lack of seeds. At least they have an amazing range of noises, all likely meaning, “We know you’re back, where the heck are the seeds?” Maybe not, as they were still yelling after I put some out. Of course, it could have been, “_Parrot_ seed? Where do you think we are, in the tropics? Next time I’ll have the woodpecker leave a flaming poop bag on your porch!”

Now that the family has left I am free to work on the house, and I have done, ah… nothing. Well, not really: I’ve spent a lot of hours planning what to do, and if you look at consultants’ fees, that has to count for something. I foresee many wonderful hours of banging on nails at sub-freezing temperatures and waiting for my water lines (garden hoses) to thaw. Of course, this is my third winter in these conditions, so I suspect that I’ve gotten all the bugs out of the system, just like I suspected last year and the year before. You haven’t lived until you’ve had to thaw a 40 gallon black water (poop) tank (hint: use a waterbed heater).

I did remove the tarp from the truck, as I wanted to remove the pigeon artifacts from it and doing so would require running water in a hose. This isn’t an indoor activity: I hoisted it up against the side of the building and it took up fully a third of it.

I’m definitely planning something for the guys next year. How bright are they, really? Would they find the loft if the entry were changed? I’m contemplating the areas under the rafters but above the shop ceiling on either side of my living attic.

I hope the attached image is readable. At any rate, the little triangles (with the arrows, the one on the left, to be precise) are where the squabs slept in the weeks before they gave up and left, so it would be familiar, but the access would have to be arranged: I’m not going to get up at all hours of the night to let Dad in when he comes home after a wild time with a woodpecker. I’m thinking of a little window in the end wall, with a small landing porch.

The one real worry I have is that they will be a lot closer to me and my ranting and raving. True, I plan to have the computer set up at the other end of the building, but my neighbor, a couple hundred feet away, can hear me when things are going particularly badly in the war. This was most disturbing as I then got very self-conscious about what I was saying. Let’s face it: In the heat of the moment a lot of things get said that are not physically possible, regardless of a person’s flexibility and sexual endowments. It takes the fun out of it when one has to worry about realism and proper usage and diction. Think of the distraction factor when someone yells back, “Hey – never end a sentence with a preposition!”

And things aren’t just hopping at the computer: Be honest – haven’t _you_ held up an un-openable bag of shredded cheese at eye level and screamed at it, “You want some of me {_deleted_} {_deleted_}?”

Yeah, it opened, but I spent a lot of time cleaning up shredded cheese.

Jim


----------



## paws

*Oops!*

Gee - that picture came out humorously small in a ridiculously large window.

Jim


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## mr squeaks

YEEEHAW! THERE IS ESP! Either that or Scorpio Power REALLY rules!

Mmmm, let's see, for the $50,000 Fantasy 5 lottery prize, I'm gonna pick numbers..... 

I WAS going to bed but I ended up laughing so hard at your post, Jim, now I'm wide awake...thank goodness for "permanent vacation!"

Many thanks for bringing us up-to-date! Sounds like those woodpeckers are going to give you a - ah - "hard" time before the pijies come back! 

We are still seeing days going up to 102. Weather people keep promising, the temps are gonna go down...nights are in 70s...


----------



## mr squeaks

paws said:


> Gee - that picture came out humorously small in a ridiculously large window.
> 
> Jim


You didn't do that on purpose????


----------



## Lin Hansen

Jim,

Regardless of whether there's news or not, I hope you keep posting from time to time. Your posts are so humorous---I really enjoy them.

Now, as to the bag of shredded cheese and other impossible to tear bags--

I keep a pair of scissors handy. 
I hold the scissors up in front of the bag (so the bag can see them)
and I say: "Look what I have, *you @#$&*, *-- you're not beating *me!*" Then I *cut* the bag open with a great flourish!

_*That'll*_ teach those bags not to mess with me! LOL

Linda


----------



## mr squeaks

Lin Hansen said:


> Jim,
> 
> Regardless of whether there's news or not, I hope you keep posting from time to time. Your posts are so humorous---I really enjoy them.
> 
> Now, as to the bag of shredded cheese and other impossible to tear bags--
> 
> I keep a pair of scissors handy.
> I hold the scissors up in front of the bag (so the bag can see them)
> and I say: "Look what I have, *you @#$&*, *-- you're not beating *me!*" Then I *cut* the bag open with a great flourish!
> 
> _*That'll*_ teach those bags not to mess with me! LOL
> 
> Linda


WAY TO GO, Linda! 

Surely, such a talented person as Jim would have scissors!


----------



## paws

*The Problem With Scissors*

It's one thing to have shredded cheese flying around out of control. Scissors are different: I don't recall my mother ever cautioning about running with shredded cheese. So, after a brief, loud, and graphic exchange with the bag, the scissors get applied with a trifle more gusto and a lot less control than would be prudent, and I end up staggering outside, half-blind, and falling onto a flaming bag of poop.

Jim


----------



## mr squeaks

paws said:


> It's one thing to have shredded cheese flying around out of control. Scissors are different: I don't recall my mother ever cautioning about running with shredded cheese. So, after a brief, loud, and graphic exchange with the bag, the scissors get applied with a trifle more gusto and a lot less control than would be prudent, and I end up staggering outside, half-blind, and *falling onto a flaming bag of poop.*
> Jim


Gee, what you guys do for entertainment up there!  

Did your neighbors get to watch? You don't do stuff like that all the time, do you? I mean, after awhile, the neighbors will just take you in stride! You sound better than TV!!

Hopefully, your hose(s) were NOT frozen? I'm sure you wanted to hose off as soon as possible, thus giving your neighbors more entertainment!   

Why can't I have entertaining neighbors like you?? Would I have to move to Alaska? ROFL


----------



## Lin Hansen

paws said:


> It's one thing to have shredded cheese flying around out of control. Scissors are different: I don't recall my mother ever cautioning about running with shredded cheese. So, after a brief, loud, and graphic exchange with the bag, the scissors get applied with a trifle more gusto and a lot less control than would be prudent, and I end up staggering outside, half-blind, and falling onto a flaming bag of poop.
> 
> Jim


Jim,

The trick is to outsmart and be one step ahead of the bag.  

The bag is given one chance--and one chance *only,* to cooperate.

When it doesn't, (and it never does), you curse it once (and you shouldn't have lost your temper too badly _already_) and use the scissor technique *immediately*.

You get all the pleasure of doing physical harm to the bag *before* it's gotten the best of you and you've gotten frustrated and lost your temper.

Works every time for me!

Linda


----------



## mr squeaks

Lin Hansen said:


> Jim,
> 
> The trick is to outsmart and be one step ahead of the bag.
> 
> The bag is given one chance--and one chance *only,* to cooperate.
> 
> When it doesn't, (and it never does), you curse it once (and you shouldn't have lost your temper too badly _already_) and use the scissor technique *immediately*.
> 
> You get all the pleasure of doing physical harm to the bag *before* it's gotten the best of you and you've gotten frustrated and lost your temper.
> 
> Works every time for me!
> 
> Linda


Wow, Linda! A woman of many talents! I will have to keep your technique in mind! 

I'm sure Jim might be able to benefit too. Unfortunately, we have to remember that his major source of entertainment has flown the coop. How many OTHER ways can he keep himself and his neighbors entertained?? Besides, from what I've read, Jim has a tendency to lose temper first and take action second (e.g. those computer games he plays. Doesn't sound like they have given him any "patience!")


----------



## paws

*More Nothing to Report*

I was urged to submit an update that there were no pigeon updates. Maybe they are downwind: Our winds have been around 50 MPH for the last couple of days, and we are supposed to get gusts to 75 MPH for the next couple. And it is around zero. I hope they have a new and better home, or at least something to hang on to.

I did have a couple more false alarms. A magpie clan passes through occasionally, but they make such a raucous noise that there is no mistaking them. Then, a few days ago, there was the pitter-patter of little feet right on the roof of the trailer, which is, of course, in the “cave”, so this visitor was either really lost or perhaps returning to the old birthplace! I stepped outside, turned around, and there, above my trailer door was… a raven! And this was, I later realized, Halloween! He seemed a little startled to see me, so “Aawwkk!” was the best he could come up with, but I’m sure that means “Nevermore” in some language in the infinite Universe. Or maybe, “Where the heck is the bust of Pallas?”

That was my first day back. I may have returned just in time. God only knows what he was up to – I recall returning from one trip and finding a couple pigeon eggs. I am *not* going to get involved in rearing things whose parents look like they can kick my butt.

At any rate, little to report. Very little running water, either. I’ve had a wonderful fortnight playing with heat guns, blow dryers, and electric heat tape. My vocabulary has greatly expanded. I still need to plan showers 20 minutes in advance: That’s how long it takes to get the lines to the bathroom thawed. The Water Gods, whom I apparently severely offended in a previous life (I actually had water freeze above 32 degrees), came up with yet another novel idea yesterday: Sure – let him have some water, then refuse to take it back. So now I have frozen drains. Swell!

But all this freezing stuff has encouraged me to attack my construction with new abandon (oh, sure… like my new living quarters won’t freeze!), and has led to numerous sentimental moments as I discovered little souvenirs of the pigeons. “Oh, my! This was a very popular spot! Where’s my chisel!”

Jim


----------



## mr squeaks

YOU'RE ALIVE! Thought you might have been "entombed" in the frozen North!  

If we were lucky, we would hear from you this late Spring, when you thawed out! If not, *sigh* we would never hear what happened! 

Darn, NOW what are your remote cameras gonna watch?

Oh yes, welcome back! We would like more stories from the frozen North whenever you can! Like, how's the water flowin'!


----------



## TAWhatley

Hi Jim,

Good to see you are still with us. We'll look forward to more posts from the very frozen North!

Terry


----------



## ernie

I just had to chime in here.....

I've been following this thread for some time now, thanks for the laughs.

Please keep us updated on the construction.



> _But all this freezing stuff has encouraged me to attack my construction with new abandon (oh, sure… like my new living quarters won’t freeze!), and has led to numerous sentimental moments as I discovered little souvenirs of the pigeons. *“Oh, my! This was a very popular spot! Where’s my chisel!*_”


** giggles***


----------



## Feather

Jim you need to start a scrap book. To bad you didn't date all of those little 
souvenirs. Oh well you'll know the next time.

Have a great walk down memory lane,

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

With all the problems you are having w/frozen pipes/water, at least you don't have to take a bath. Of course, it would be best if you don't have any visitors until Spring when everything thaws out!  

My MAIN concern is that you are either frozen solid like those prehistoric creatures in a block of ice and WILL thaw out when the temps warm up OR you died and are STILL FROZEN and won't be FOUND until SPRING!

Your writing talent just CAN'T be LOST!! For our peace of mind, do you think you could "pop" in every so often and just say, "STILL ALIVE" (so there wouldn't be any "pressure," *update(s)* could be optional!!)

THANKS!!   

Shi
A loyal fan


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## paws

*This Blows!*

I’m not frozen in ice – yet. Even at ten below the wind can sublimate the stuff a little. The 75 MPH gusts prediction was a little off: The fire station reported one of 96 MPH. So not only was I hunkered down in fear of the whole building collapsing on me, but had to agonize over a new Major Question of the Universe, “Why the heck is the fire department spending my tax money on an anemometer?” At the height of this calamity loud banging and squawking noises came from the unfinished upstairs as a whole clan (Tribe? Covey? Gaggle? Pod?) of magpies arrived for a home invasion. I had to marvel that they could fly at all in those conditions, but perhaps they just lost their grips on something a couple miles upwind and this was the first safe refuge they could find. Maybe the banging and squawking were not the sounds of hearty partying but those of high speed impacts with roofing, studs and flooring, followed by cries of “My leg!”, “My head!”, “My a**!”, and “Hey – where are those seeds that were here last summer?”

So, in retrospect, I feel a little bad about scaring them off. They’re probably blowing by Vladivostok, Siberia, now. I certainly hope the pigeons found safe refuge. I can’t help but think that they’re beginning to wonder if leaving home was such a hot idea: Lots of seeds, no wind, and they didn’t have to speak Russian.

Jim


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## Whitefeather

Hey Jim,
It's such a delight to see a new posting from you.  
In good times, and not so good times (weather, invasions, etc.), you always entertain us. Thank you.  

Cindy


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## mr squeaks

Well, I, too, have to chime in and say THANKS! 

After having WAY TOO GOOD a time last night and then laughing like a loon over your post, I feel MUCH better! 

Think I'll recommend your postings to all my friends! I will refer to you as "DR. Paws!"

I won't worry about you blowing away since you have a vehicle that weighs more than a mountain. I WILL worry about live burial though! You DO have a heavy duty shovel and compass that points "UP," right? 

Seems VERY odd to read about your freezin' temps and high winds when I can go outside to sun and low 80 degrees!

I'm surprised there are any birds around up there at this time! Who knows, you may be on the bird "sanctuary" list...The PIGEONS told 'em!


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## Victor

*Hi and welcome back Jim,....ahh I mean Dr. Paws!

It is great to see you back and all well and cold. Burrr, getting cold just thinking of the place you live. It is getting late, but I plan on re-reading the entire thread tomorrow. 

I am going to check the space heater in my pigeon coop and get under the covers myself. Good night all! *

Edited:
Jim~ I have just finished re-reading your entire thread. There were some things I missed before but am up to speed now. Alaska must be an intriguing place to live. Please do keep the updates coming in.


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