# Found a baby today..



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi,
I noticed a baby pigeon today at the parking lot. I went upto it it didnt move. So I decided to grab it and take it home.
But then it started running and flew a little. It cannot fly high, maybe 2-4 feet.
So I thought ill leave it alone.

But, again after a few hours, I saw the baby back at the same spot. Also noticed a cat nearby. So I decided to catch it this time.
Its about 12-14 days old.

1) I have gotten it home. Force-fed with about 30 peas + corn (defrosted). Plus ACV water.

2) It doesnt move much.. but tries to escape. It does not like me.

3) The problem is, when i hold it, I feel it warm, like maybe it has fever. Im not sure.

4) It does not eat enthusiastically. but its beak opens up readily.. like it may be loose. 
Cannot fig out. No signs of Canker.

I seriously hope this one is not sick.

Pics.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Give him a day or 2 of feeding and check if there's an improvement in the droppings. At that age one can feed 30 peas 3 times daily, total of 90 per day. Does he drink water by himself? You can dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils) in a small bowl of water. Safer than squirting the water into his mouth with a syringe.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update.

I just fed it with about 30-40 (Peas+Corn), and it vomited 11 peas soon after.
Its crop seems hard. 
The bird is pretty active, it pecks me and attacks me with its wings everytime I try getting near it.



> Does he drink water by himself?


It does when I dip its beak 2-3 times in the bowl. It wont go by itself to the bowl to drink.

Ill observe it for 1 more day for canker growth.
Just hoping this one is not sick. Maybe it does not like defrosted peas and corn.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Maybe you are just feeding too much. Let the crop empty inbetween feedings, you will see it becoming flat and there should be plenty of droppings.

Always a good sign when they act aggressive. Leave a small bowl of peas with him they quickly learn to eat peas by themselves.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Maybe you are just feeding too much. Let the crop empty inbetween feedings, you will see it becoming flat and there should be plenty of droppings.


I did that.
This morning i woke up by 7, noticed the bird had made just two droppings, and crop still felt hard. So i did not feed it.

Checked back on her at 11am, plenty of droppings and crop was rather flat.

So force-fed her 30 peas + corn. Then again at 4pm 30 more. So far so good, not throwing out any peas or corn.

But she doesnt move much. Does not eat by herself, does not drink water by herself. 
Only when i go near it, she starts attacking me and running away.

Pics
(Notice the droppings are all in one spot. she does not move until I go close to her)


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Also she has made three attempts of flying out, but hit the window glass.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Don't you have a cage you can put her in? Otherwise, take a large box, turn this on the side and cover the front with 20% shadecloth. Line the floor with a couple of newspapers (each morning remove the top layer) and put a brick inside for her to perch on. Give her a spot where she would feel safe. She is scared and view you as the predator. 

Be patient, she will eventually start eating the peas by herself.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Be patient, she will eventually start eating the peas by herself.


Update:

So she finally did open up.
She can eat by herself. She eats about 25 peas in less than 10 seconds, all by her self.
Today she has eaten about 160 peas.. is that too much for about a 15-20 day old baby ?
I feel she overeats as after eating she couldnt fly up (3 feet) onto the clothes rack. Her perch.

Her droppings are Green and Mushy with sufficient urates.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm glad she is doing ok. She will know when to stop, especially if there's always food around. Now you can start adding small seeds to the peas and she will eventually start eating them as well. 

You can also put down one of those big round plastic trays (that fits underneath a potplantholder) and fill it up with water. Get her interested by playing with the water using your fingers. She will need to start drinking and might even take a bath.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi,
I have been noticing for a few days, when she eats the peas.. after about 5-7 peas, 
She backs up, and twitches her neck. im not sure what is causing this.. is this ok?

Here is the video. please have a look.
https://youtu.be/YHHQpekPufQ


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can check for canker again, not only in the mouth but in the back of the throat as well. Does not look normal to me.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

No signs of canker. I check two times everyday.
Also she does not drink water at all. 

Any idea on how to check if canker in crop ?

Also she goes to the corners of the wall and windows and eats dust and dirt even when the crop is full.

Also, her crop is shifted more to the left side. Sometimes I see the crop bulge circling from left to right. (i will try taking a video of it).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I know what you mean by the circular movements of the crop. I've seen a dove doing that, turned out she had canker. After treatment, everything was fine.

Your pigeon just eats so well. Have you got metro just for in case? When sick with canker: they start eating less, drink more water, losing feathers on the breast, can have yellow urates in the droppings.

Does she drink water at all? If not, try teaching her and see how she responds to that. Just monitor her for now and have the canker meds available.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Yes i have meditrich. And nystatin.

She does not drink water at all. I have to force her to sip water, even then she refuses to drink, looks away and struggles to fly away.

But she eats quite a bit. 100+ peas in a day. And She eats only peas, no corn.. and she cant really peck the smaller seeds.

She also eats a lot of dirt.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is her crop empty in the mornings with plenty of droppings? She might be eating the dust because of slow digestion. 

If you feel its necessary, start treating her with the Nystatin and metro. The metro dosage about 35 gr.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Is her crop empty in the mornings with plenty of droppings? She might be eating the dust because of slow digestion.
> 
> If you feel its necessary, start treating her with the Nystatin and metro. The metro dosage about 35 gr.


Yes Her crop is completely empty by 2-3am. She wakes around then whistling for food.

Bowl of peas is kept there.. but she eats around 5:30 with the sunlight.

Plenty of droppings.

Im afraid of starting Meditrich/Nystatin now.. in the lockdown.. if any complications and something is required.. I will not be able to get it.

Also, for how many days Meditrich to be given ? on empty crop ? and nystatin ?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I still think as long as she is eating well, then don't medicate. You will notice a change in her behaviour and eating pattern when she gets sick.

Info: Nystatin works well on an empty crop. She will need 30 000 units per 100 gram twice daily. You can check the label to determine the strength you have. So first thing in the morning: Give Nystatin, then wait an hour. Give the metro and then put down food. In the afternoon only Nystatin again before feeding.

Focus now on getting her to drink. The amount she drinks will also tell you if something is wrong. And you will need to put acv in the water if you start treating her.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The metro needs to be given 7 to 10 days.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> I still think as long as she is eating well, then don't medicate. You will notice a change in her behaviour and eating pattern when she gets sick.


Ok, I will wait it out.
So far she is eating only peas. And a lot of Peas.
About 30 in the morning at 5:30, then around 30 at 7am, then around 30 at 10-11am, then at 2pm, 5 pm and 7pm before sleep.

In between she eats Mud and Dirt. 

I have added ACV to water, and I force her to drink.
I shall observe for some time now.



Marina B said:


> Info: Nystatin works well on an empty crop. She will need 30 000 units per 100 gram twice daily. You can check the label to determine the strength you have. So first thing in the morning: Give Nystatin, then wait an hour. Give the metro and then put down food. In the afternoon only Nystatin again before feeding.
> 
> Focus now on getting her to drink. The amount she drinks will also tell you if something is wrong. And you will need to put acv in the water if you start treating her.


Thankyou


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I don't know if this is the case but usually pigeons eat weird things (like walls, mud, etc) when they feel a need. In this way they try to get minerals, calcium, insoluble grit, etc.

When lockdown will stop you could look for a pigeon picking block/pickstone. Here there are many kinds of blocks with different ingredients like oyster shells (calcium), insoluble grit (the small stones which help to grind up the seeds), anise (it helps the digestion), clay (it helps to regulate the digestive system and in case of poop a little bit watery. It also has many other advantages like neutralizing some dangerous pesticides, some heavy metals, etc), minerals, etc.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Don't force her to drink. Just dip the tip of the beak in a small bowl of water (not over the nostrils). You might have to do this a couple of times before she will drink.

Try to get her some grit and put this in a small bowl next to her peas. If the grit seems a bit large, grind them till smaller.

Let us know how she is doing.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update:

I think it is the Peas. 
So now i keep a bowl of (Grains + Seeds) and a separate bowl of (corn + peas).
She switched to Grains and Seeds.. and no longer touches the Peas.

This happened yesterday..
She now drinks significantly more water than before.
I think With Peas she didnt feel the need to drink water.. but with seeds and grains.. she drinks every 30 mins to an hour.

She also seems to be a lot more active maybe restless than before. A lot more angrier also.

Have also kept some grit and colombine red pickstone.

Droppings:
1) Urates seem slight yellowish. Not sure if its yellowish or greenish.
2) half a bowl of water she had today


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The urates are a bit yellow as you said, but at least not watery and quite well formed. So she is still eating well? Continue with the acv in the water. I'm just so against giving antibiotics if not really necessary.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is he doing?


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

Here is the problem.

(S)he has a Boil on the inner side of the leg.

This is new, it was not there 3-4 days back.

Pictures.

Boil


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is he still eating well? Looks like a bit of pigeon pox, caused by bites from infected mosquitoes. The growths might become a bit bigger. This will eventually dry up and fall off in a couple of weeks. Look as if there's some on the cloaca as well. 

As long as he does not get the wet form (growths inside the beak that might intevere with eating and breathing) he will be ok. Can you get vitamins to put in his drinking water? Only thing one can do is to boost his immunity for quicker healing. Also, don't touch the poxgrowths and then his beak. If it spreads to the beak, you might have problems.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Is he still eating well? Looks like a bit of pigeon pox, caused by bites from infected mosquitoes. The growths might become a bit bigger. This will eventually dry up and fall off in a couple of weeks. Look as if there's some on the cloaca as well.


Hi,
There are no Mosquitoes around here.
There are moths, and house flys, but no mosquitoes.
Is it possible she got this before me finding her ? (I found her about 10 days back)



> As long as he does not get the wet form (growths inside the beak that might intevere with eating and breathing) he will be ok. Can you get vitamins to put in his drinking water? Only thing one can do is to boost his immunity for quicker healing. Also, don't touch the poxgrowths and then his beak. If it spreads to the beak, you might have problems.


- noticed this today accidentally.. As she is moulting, she is bending backwards and I noticed the yellow growth.

- I do check her mouth every morning and evening..

- She is eating fine. Drinking enough. She does not touch the peas at all. Only small brown seeds and grains.
Droppings are a little loose and watery.

- Some Pet Stores have opened up for the weekend. It is possible for me to make a run to the market. Is there anything I should bring for her.. medications or something incase of emergency or backup ?

- S(He) does not let me touch her at all..
https://youtu.be/JhbZNZotnV0


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, it's possible he was infected before found by you. You have the metronidazole and nystatin, so only try to get vitamins for birds and probiotics. This you can also add to the drinking water as well as the apple cider vinegar.

He looks good in the video, a sick bird will act tame. 

I know in India they do a mixture of neem oil and turmeric to put on the growths. Some people even put on black shoe polish to dry up the growths.

Just make sure he is able to poop well with those growths on the cloaca.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi,
First thankyou for all the help.

I am not in india, Im in UAE. 
I can acquire the Neem Oil and turmeric .. but this bird is very restless. She will keep pecking on the Oil + turmeric.

Ill make the run to get some Vitamins and Probiotics.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Got multi-vit & Probiotics.

Also got an ointment recommended them to be applied on the Boils.
I bought the ointment, but ill wait for some time before starting with it.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Ok, that's good. Let us know how he is doing.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

update

Her appetite has reduced today.
She ate just 15 Peas.
She pecked on some seeds and grains .. scattered the remaining all over the floor. 

Does not drink water now. Water is Yellow in color after adding Probiotics and Multi-Vit.

Also,
For the first time today, Ive seen her sit down. She usually always stood on feet or one leg at a time.

Still very active and ready to fight once I get closer.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Most of the bird vitamins are yellow. Even my pigeon Chris "Pikachu" didn't want to drink them while I was treating him for canker because he didn't like the yellow color (I was using a transparent glass bowl)....I saw that you are using a white water bowl: you could try to put the water in a dark bowl (like a blue one) or in any other bowl which can mask/cover the yellow color. Pikachu drinks the vitamins without problems if he does not see the yellow color. 

Are you still daily checking his mouth/throat? 
How are his poops?


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Most of the bird vitamins are yellow. Even my pigeon Chris "Pikachu" didn't want to drink them while I was treating him for canker because he didn't like the yellow color (I was using a transparent glass bowl)....I saw that you are using a white water bowl: you could try to put the water in a dark bowl (like a blue one) or in any other bowl which can mask/cover the yellow color. Pikachu drinks the vitamins without problems if he does not see the yellow color.


Sure thing. Ill use a darker colored bowl.
This one does not like to drink water in general. I have to take the bowl upto her mouth every hour or so, then she takes a sip out of pressure.



> Are you still daily checking his mouth/throat?
> How are his poops?


Yes,
Checking the mouth 2 times daily. All clear. Tomorrow, I will take a Pic of the mouth and post it.

Droppings are a bit watery, also because now shes back on eating more Peas and less seeds and grains. 
Droppings were firm when she ate seeds and grains only around 3-4 days back.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

Her appetite is reduced even today.
She spends most of the day Pecking and Playing with grit and peckstones.

Droppings are dark brown, sometimes solid sometimes liquid, with yellowish urates.

She is molting, and pecking even the region around the cloaca. Im concerned the Pox spreading to mouth area. But I cant stop her. 

Some pics of her mouth and latest dropping (after seeds grains and multivit water)


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Probably the pox growths on her cloaca annoy her. I saw your old photos and I noticed that the vent area looked also a bit dirty. Monitor it, dried poops could create problems in pooping. 

The mouth looks clear.

You could try to add to her seeds/grains a mixture for canaries containing dehydrated fruits. Usually birds like it, it could stimulate her appetite. You could also add dried legumes (the ones for humans that you can find at supermarket) like mung beans, small lentils and split peas. They are really healthy and essential for a balanced diet. Some of my birds are crazy for dried egumes. 

Maybe you already thought about that... If not... Don't leave available for long time the same defrosted peas, they could easily get moldy, it could be dangerous... 

Is she getting the probiotics? 

Keep monitoring his poops (color, etc) and mouth. You could also maybe daily weigh her.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The vitamins in the drinking water is probably causing the yellow urates. I'm not sure, maybe you can skip one day of vitamins and check if the urates turn white again.

So she is eating less and not really drinking water. If you feel it's necessary, treat for canker. I think 1/3 of a 100 mg metronidazole once daily will be ok. Also use the Nystatin, just for in case.

Are you putting something on the growths? Try turmeric mixed with a bit of coconut oil. Don't worry if she gets some of this in her mouth, turmeric and coconut oil are good natural antibiotics. Aloe vera is also a good product to put on, will help with the itchiness.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> The vitamins in the drinking water is probably causing the yellow urates.


Its not the vitamins. Vitamins came few days ago. 
They have been yellow since the time I found her.
I dont want to begin with anti-biotics now, as she is still very active and energetic. Eats by herself.
Maybe once the Pox is gone Ill start Metro+Nystatin.



> Are you putting something on the growths?


Ive got the ointment from the Pet Market. I will start applying it today onwards.



> Probably the pox growths on her cloaca annoy her. I saw your old photos and I noticed that the vent area looked also a bit dirty. Monitor it, dried poops could create problems in pooping.


I dont know what to do about it. Im afraid of touching it or cleaning it. 

The Pet Store guy told me, Pox is common, there are so many pigeons outside who dont get any care, but they make it through. He said dont do anything about it, apply the ointment if needed.
Im refraining myself of dipping her in Warm Water



> You could try to add to her seeds/grains a mixture for canaries containing dehydrated fruits. Usually birds like it, it could stimulate her appetite. You could also add dried legumes (the ones for humans that you can find at supermarket) like mung beans, small lentils and split peas. They are really healthy and essential for a balanced diet. Some of my birds are crazy for dried egumes


Yes, Have gotten the bird mix from the Super Market. It has everything.
But she only eats Sorghum Millets White and Red, defrosted Green Peas & mud/pickstone.



> Don't leave available for long time the same defrosted peas, they could easily get moldy


I leave only 25 peas for her. If they get too dry, she doesnt eat them either. I throw them by the end of night. And keep fresh ones for her.



> Is she getting the probiotics?


Yes, Probiotics+Multivit both mixed in water. 



> You could also maybe daily weigh her


Shes one angry bird. Its very difficult to get hold of her, and making her stand in one place with me around is near impossible.

The droppings are consistent Dark Green / Brown from the pic.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If the weather is nice and warm, you can put down a large dish of water for her. Pigeons love to bath, that might help getting her clean.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

If she looks really active, energetic, eats on her own and there are not signs of a secondary infection I would not give her antibiotics.
Just continue to monitor carefully her droppings, mouth, her behavior and general condition. 

Let us know how she is doing.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

With the lock down partially ended, ive gotten busy with work and recovery of workload.
Also my internet was suspended for a few days.

Update

1) She almost does not eat by herself anymore for the past 3-4 days.
There is a bowl full of mixed seeds and grains, but she pecks like 10-15 grains and no more. She doesnt even eat defrosted peas by herself.

Im force feeding her about 60-90 de frosted peas in total (3 times a day.)


2) She was and is molting, but her feathers dont seem to be coming. 
Does Pox affect feathering ?

3) she is quite skinny for a bird her age.
Does Pox affect appetite ?

4) She has no traces of Canker in her mouth. Could be crop canker, but i will start meds after the Pox dries up.

5) She is quite active only when Im about to catch her to feed her. She Fights me very fierce fully. Other times she quietly sits by the window or in front of her mirror.

Pictures


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

_Limits to 4 pics.. so 2 attached here.._

6) Droppings look normal (pics attached).
She has that 1 or 2 odd watery droppings in a day.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I assume the pox will only affect her eating if there's growths around the beak. If I was in your situation, I would start treating her for canker and for yeast simultaneously. It's not good for a pigeon to stop eating, then you know something serious is wrong. The longer you wait, the worse she will become.

Is she still getting vitamins and acv in the drinking water?


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Is she still getting vitamins and acv in the drinking water?


Yes, Vitamins, acv, pro-biotics.

Update

Today, the urates have been white, not yellowish unlike before. Also the boils on the Cloaca have reduced. 

Also, today she decided to reach-out for the bowl of seeds&grains by herself. She did not eat much, but 3 times she went herself for the bowl.
Im starting to think, the Boils on the Cloaca have affected her appetite.

Ill observe her for today and tomorrow, if no improvement on food, will start with canker medications.

Pics (droppings)


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Droppings look good. If the growths on the cloaca affected her ability to produce droppings, then it might have affected her appetite.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

Spotted the Parent today, around the same spot as I had found her. Parent has Pox as well, does not eat either.
Dont know whats wrong, but i couldnt catch it as it was quite a large bird.




Meanwhile,
Her cloaca has completely cleared up.
Droppings seem good as well.
But she still does not eat. Feathering clearly stopped.

Will start with her canker medication today.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Poor parent. That small dropping behind her looks like a starvation dropping. Probably has canker. Try to get a large fishing net and sneek up on her from behind. She will eventually get so weak that she won't be able to fly.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

update

She has started cooing.
https://youtu.be/utuBRliyfHo

3rd day with Metro (half a meditrich) and 0.3ml nystatin.
No difference in appetite.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I like it when they act so aggressive. Just keep on with the metro and nystatin and do the full course.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Do Pigeons have tonsils ? (EDIT: _they are not tonsils._)

Update.

So today, while I had her mouth open, she decided to flap her tongue, and push it outside.
So It gave me a view of the back-end of the tongue. 
(EDIT: There are two Yellowish-White Dots on the deep-end of the tongue - that has the circular opening to the neck - that goes to the crop)

The Back end of the tongue, has a Whitish Yellow Spot on either side of the tongue. I think they are tonsils, but whitish-yellow..

Also, the circular gap between the tongue gave me a quick flash of the area from the throat and lower.. Also had 2 yellowish spots.
I wish I am wrong, because the mouth is completely clean.

So I think she has Canker. But I cannot confirm unless she pulls out her tongue again.

- If these whitish-yellow spots are indeed canker signs, Should I increase her dosage of meditrich from half to one entire pill ?

One more thing..
When I force feed her peas, I see a bulge of the pea on the right side of the neck area, slowly going downwards to the crop.
- The bulge is always on the right, never to the left. And the Peas go very slowly to the crop..


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

update:

1) She still is not eating seeds / grains by herself. Eats 6-8 Peas at a time from my hand. thats it. Then I have to force feed her.
Her reflexes have gotten much slower as well. I can easily catch her now, earlier it was much difficult.

2) Now, she cannot fly up 3 feet from ground to the Rack where she normally stands/sleeps.
She has lost most of her tail feathers, and new dont seem to be growing.

3) Today is the 10th day of Metro, Should I continue with it ?

4) Yellowish-White spots are visible around the tongue-tube area as shown here. Earlier I thought these were Tonsils.

If she slips her tongue out, can see some in the neck area as well.

5) After nystatin and metro, her first dropping is usually like this.


6) Sometimes, first dropping after metro is like this.


7) droppings after force feeding her seem normal. A little yellowish but I think thats because of nystatin.

8) have been adding MultiVit, ProBiotics, ACV and Vit D + Calcium to her drinking water, which she does not drink much.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Maybe 2 more days of canker treatment, but stick to the 40 g. A whole tablet of 100 mg will be too much. Then continue with the Nystatin for a couple of days. Those bubbles in the droppings can be from a yeast infection, those white spots can also be yeast. The problem is, if he has yeast then the antibiotics will just make it worst. 

I've also been in this situation, you don't know if it is canker or yeast. With canker, they will drink a lot of water. I've recently read that yeast can also cause this. 

Sometimes they need 2 meds to get rid of canker. How much water is he drinking? If not a lot, then rather focus on getting rid of the yeast. Double the dose of acv in the water, but it should not be too much otherwise he won't drink. Also check inside his beak every day to see if there are a change in the white growths while he is on Nystatin.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Sometimes they need 2 meds to get rid of canker.


2 meds meaning ? Any other meds required.. I can go try to get it.



Marina B said:


> How much water is he drinking?


Some days she drinks lots of water.. 
Yesterday, about half a bowl full.
Then today she barely touched water.



Marina B said:


> If not a lot, then rather focus on getting rid of the yeast. Double the dose of acv in the water, but it should not be too much otherwise he won't drink. Also check inside his beak every day to see if there are a change in the white growths while he is on Nystatin.


Inside the beak is completely fine.
Its the opening of the tongue, into the tube of the neck is where I notice the spots.
Also when she swallows the peas, there is a noticeable bulge on the left side of the neck as the Peas flow down to the crop.

When I force feed peas... She eats upto 6-8 peas. Then she will continuously protest, shaking her head as if she is saying NO. 
It seems the Peas are hurting her.

+ Also, any clue on Why her feathers dont grow ?

+ Should I feed her with apple sauce to check if its a slow crop ?

+ Interestingly, she is the 3rd bird im attempting to rescue from canker. And surprisingly, she is the most active of the 3. 
Previous two had become like my pets, my children.
This one still fights with me, and does not respond to any affection.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

**Update 2**

Today..
- Nystatin + Metro in the morning..

then, 
- Force Fed 20 Peas + 10 Corn 

- afternoon 15 peas

- Mid After noon 12 Peas

- Evening 8 peas.

Total 45 peas and 10 Corn in the entire day.

*Now at 8Pm I decided to check on Her..
She had thrown out undigested 18 Peas and 7 Corn.
Corn was fed in the morning.*

*Dropping after Throwing Up*



*Some thing is not right.*


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is there any chance you can get hold of a handrearing formula? One for parrots or cockatiels? And baby applesauce? Then you can mix the dry formula with baby applesauce so that it has the consistency of soft clay. Then make small balls (smaller than a pea) and feed this to him.

The buldge you see when feeding peas is normal, that is the pea going into the crop.

There are resistant strands of canker that does not respond to metronidazole. Ronidazole (Ronsec tablets) is another option. 

Are you sure there are growths on the back of the tongue at the base? That's the opening of the trachea. Google images of the inside of a pigeon beak and compare to yours.

I know you're frustrstion. The last 2 youngsters I had both died. Didn't respond to my treatment, although both had canker symptoms.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Is there any chance you can get hold of a handrearing formula? One for parrots or cockatiels? And baby applesauce? Then you can mix the dry formula with baby applesauce so that it has the consistency of soft clay. Then make small balls (smaller than a pea) and feed this to him.


I have baby applesauce
Ill try to get the hand rearing formula tomorrow as everything is shut now.
Also, will get Ronidazole.. just incase.



> Are you sure there are growths on the back of the tongue at the base? That's the opening of the trachea. Google images of the inside of a pigeon beak and compare to yours.


Not a single picture on google has a clear picture of a healthy pigeon with tongue and opening.
Im not sure if they are growths. Ill try to get a picture of her mouth/tongue tomorrow.



> I know you're frustrstion. The last 2 youngsters I had both died. Didn't respond to my treatment, although both had canker symptoms.


Im sorry to hear that.
I want her to be healthy and rid of this asap.

one other thing, I think i should mention.
i have been giving her nystatin only once a day (in the morning).
two days in this week i had to skip nystatin, as I was late, and she was anyways starving.
I dont give her in the evenings, as she doesnt eat much in the first place.. and i dont want to keep her without food for long.
Ill start giving nystatin two times from tomorrow onwards..


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

This morning dropping gave me a shock. Almost thought that dark brown matter was blood.
I genuinely hope its not


Her crop seems soft now. Ive given her 0,30ml of nystatin.


This is the picture from inside her mouth.
Please look at the tongue opening area.. let me know if anything abnormal.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

In the one photo I can see a growth that does not look normal. Was it there before you started treating her?

Remember the Nystatin must be given on an empty crop and then wait an hour before feeding or drinking. It should coat the inside of the mouth and crop and needs to come into contact with the yeast. How are you giving this to him? Do you put little bit at a time in the front of the lower beak and let him swallow? It must be given twice a day and you can increase the dosage to 0.5 or 0.6 ml. They need 30 000 units per 100 gram birdweight. It doesn't get absorbed into the body, so no need to worry about overdosing.

I would rather concentrate on treating for yeast now and see if the Nystatin makes a difference.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> In the one photo I can see a growth that does not look normal. Was it there before you started treating her?


No it was not there during the Pox. This is relatively new.. like 5 days ago..



> Remember the Nystatin must be given on an empty crop and then wait an hour before feeding or drinking. It should coat the inside of the mouth and crop and needs to come into contact with the yeast. How are you giving this to him? Do you put little bit at a time in the front of the lower beak and let him swallow? It must be given twice a day and you can increase the dosage to 0.5 or 0.6 ml. They need 30 000 units per 100 gram birdweight. It doesn't get absorbed into the body, so no need to worry about overdosing.


I try to coat the upper beak and throat with nystatin. I use the dropper and pour it altogether. This bird does not stay stable. and keeps shaking her head.
Ive skipped it couple of days..
Ill treat her with nystatin twice from today.



> I would rather concentrate on treating for yeast now and see if the Nystatin makes a difference.


ill do this.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

Today,
Since morning, Ive given her 0.3ml Nystatin.
after 1 hour, 8Peas.

after 3 hours 8Peas

After 2 hours She went to the bowl of seeds/grains and has had crop full of grains and seeds.
Now she doesnt move.

But after 2 Weeks she has had these many seeds/grains by herself.

======

I think what was happening,
with the pox not gone, I introduced Metro, and kept feeding her 60-90 peas a day, plus the mud/dirt/grains she had by herself, Choked her crop. 
So, Nystatin did not get a chance to touch empty crop.

Yesterday she threw out undigested peas, corn..
And this morning the old rotten material has come out.
Finally on an empty crop, I dosed her with nystatin.

Lets hope she gets better from now on.
Ill attempt to get hand rearing formula this evening.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I hope she gets well soon and that the Nystatin will make a difference. Remember to give twice a day.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Only a few shops were open.
I did not have many options.

Got this one
https://vetafarm.com/product/nutricore/



> Ingredients:
> Australian soy isolate protein, maltodextrin, Australian pea flour, Australian potato starch, vegetable oil, whole egg powder, blueberry, Fructose, Vetafarm Synbiotic*, vitamins (A, B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, B12, C, D3, E, H & K), and minerals (calcium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, sulphur & zinc).
> *Vetafarm SYNBIOTIC provides: Probiotics (5,500 CFU/g) Lactobacillus acidophilus, L.casei, L. salivarius, L.plantarum, L.rhamnosus, L.brevis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, B.lactis, S. thermophilus.
> Prebiotic: Inulin (chicory root extract).
> ...


Please check, and let me know if this is fine.
Also, how do i make the pellets. Just apple sauce or water and apple sauce
Should it be warm ?

EDIT:
One more thing. its 7PM. 
Her crop is not empty yet, So I give her nystatin by 9, 9:30pm. Then feed her these pellets or defrosted peas.. ?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, that will be fine. You can only add the applesauce to the dry powder, just enough to give you the consistency of clay. If it sticks to your fingers, add some more dry formula. Measure out 5 ml of this, make small balls (bit smaller than a pea) and feed to him. If he keeps the 5 ml down, then do 7.5 ml at the next feeding. He must also drink water, to soften up the balls in the crop.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

After giving the Nystatin, wait half an hour to an hour before feeding. They say Nystatin works best on an empty crop. If there's still food in the crop, continue to give the Nystatin. Better than not giving at all. I hope there will be a change in the droppings after giving the formula.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Ok done..
Will update tomorrow morning


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

This bird has become a Weak Grumpy Grand Mother.
If she does not like something, she will not have it and attack weakly.

40 mins after Nystatin and this comes out. I thought it was blood.. but its deep dark green brown stuff.


Also i did not know how to measure 5ml of clay.
Since 1 Tsp = 4.95ml, I just fit as many pellets in 1Tsp and fed her.

She was hungry. She could eat a lot more. But I didnt want to feed her more


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

Finally her crop was empty.
All the dark brown stuff from before, and Light brown stuff (seems the formula + apple sauce)



- I gave her nystatin, and nothing came out after than for about an hour. That means the crop was really empty.

-After an hour, I gave her Peas and bowl of seeds + grains.
She didnt touch the peas, just had grains by herself. 
She just eats the white sorghum.

- Im not force-feeding her for now. 
Also I didnt give her metro yesterday, nor today.

- until yesterday she seemed Weak & Dull. 
Today she is weak, but Not Dull. Still not flying.

I just hope she gets better. Starts flying again.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Continue with the Nystatin and check every day if it makes a difference to the growths inside her beak. If she prefers the sorghum, makes sure she always have some available to eat. Much easier than forcefeeding her and it's always a good sign if they eat by themselves.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

I wanted to check if i should give her the hand-rearing formula + apple sauce tonight as well?
or Just nystatin then some seeds/grains ?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If you think he is eating enough seeds, then no need to handfeed.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update

- Shes doing much better. Not dull anymore. But still weak.
She now flies upto the clothes rack (3 ft high).

- Droppings:
Droppings are now Deep Dark Brown. Urates are Yellow after nystatin.. but turn white by evening.

- Food:
Shes mostly eating the Very Small Seeds. Mostly Black and Yellow mustard. Thats why the droppings are So deep Dark Brown.

Not Sorghum anymore. Infact very very little grains. She pecks them, then throws them off.

By evening her crop is about 30-50% full.

Im not sure how good or healthy mustard seeds are for her. Any suggestions ?

- Feathers :
her feathers are still not growing.

One link I was reading mentioned.
Its fairly common for pigeons to develop Thrush or Yeast infections during Pox, which results in reduction of appetite and affects the Flight as well.
I suppose this is what happened. Her appetite reduced because of Yeast, while I treated her for canker, and her condition worsened.

Anyways, nystatin is helping. I hope she recovers completely and starts flying.. as well as eating healthy.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sounds promising. Just put down mixed birdseed, she will eat the nicest seeds first but will need to start eating the others as well.

Hope she makes a speedy recovery. Can you see a change in the growths inside her beak?


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Sounds promising. Just put down mixed birdseed, she will eat the nicest seeds first but will need to start eating the others as well.
> 
> Hope she makes a speedy recovery. Can you see a change in the growths inside her beak?


No change in the growths.
Looking at the growths in Sunlight, I feel those are not really growths. But Parts of the Tube Opening. I have to see the mouths of other pigeons to confirm this.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update
Pictures of her mouth. The suspected growths seem to be glands at the Trachea opening. Not growth. 
Why are they white? Is it normal ? 
i have no idea.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update


Food:
She still eats only mustard seeds. I dont know how to make her eat other seeds.
I have tried keeping other seeds (leaving out mustard) but then she does not eat. She does not even look at defrosted Peas.

Isnt mustard high in fats? Is it good for her ?

Droppings:
Droppings are small. Very small.

Feathers.
Some of her tail f3eathers have started growing.
A lot of feathers on the body have started growing as well.
Feathers on the neck and head are still not growing.

Flight..
She seems to be able to fly upto 8 feet high now. 

Overall she seems active and healthy. Just needs to start eating other seeds.
Any ideas ?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just give her time. Seems like she is eating those seeds because they are very small. Can you get some finch or canary seed to add to that? Also provide her with small pieces of chopped up raw unsalted peanuts. I honestly don't know what those white growths can be. Are you still giving the Nystatin?

Rather focus now on letting her gain weight by eating as much of her favourite seed as possible.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Yes,
Nystatin once in the morning 0,4 - 0,5ml.

Ill try to get Finch and/or canary seeds.



> Rather focus now on letting her gain weight by eating as much of her favourite seed as possible.


Yes, I am giving her little mustard daily.
Im not sure so much mustard is good for her or not, thats why


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Maybe this link could be helpful:

https://www.auspigeonco.com.au/visible-indicators-of-health-in-the-head-and-throat.html


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Colombina said:


> Maybe this link could be helpful:
> 
> https://www.auspigeonco.com.au/visible-indicators-of-health-in-the-head-and-throat.html


Not really.
Not a pic there shows the Trachea Opening in detail.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Maybe those growths are just normal. Rather focus on her overall wellbeing. If she does not act sick, is eating by herself, droppings seem fine, gaining weight etc then I would say the worst is over.


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## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update..

1) Droppings look absolutely normal.

2) I got Finch & Canary seeds. She still eats only mustard seeds.

3) Ive stopped with nystatin now. no change inside her mouth.

4) overall she looks and seems healthy. 

5) just Tail feathers have come but still not grown properly. Feathers on the rest of the body still not completely grown.
I will post pictures soon.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

What happens when you don't put down mustard seeds for her? Does she at least peck at the other seeds? Pigeons love hemp seeds as well. You can try and get them. Give her acv in the drinking water 2 or 3 times a day. Would love to see some photos.


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