# Who Are The Top Lofts In The United States?



## shadowgames (Mar 13, 2010)

Who are the lofts that are top contenders for the 2010 season? I know all people will vary with opinions in this but who do you think really have their program setup for high percentages of winning this year? Not breeding but winning races, locally and national level. Thanks for all input on this.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

That's a great question! I'd like to know also...


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## redleg23 (May 6, 2009)

I'm sure one of the only non biased answers would be last years racing results. I would like to hear what some of the suggestions are also.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

RKM Loft of course! 


....


LOL, just kidding  I wish though!


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## shadowgames (Mar 13, 2010)

Where would be the best source for racing results for last year? What race events are the most respected by racers?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

One way, which is very unlikely, is to have a HUGE 1 loft race in the US, where every fancier could enter as many birds as he wanted, and see who wins. Or maybe 1 race should not decide, but maybe a whole season with all of the birds. Crazy idea I know, and out of the question, but what a hoot it would be. If you are going to dream, you may as well dream big!!! Also, some of the top loft fliers are on this forum!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I'd like to know also! Perhaps I can get some nice breeders from him/her!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'll bet the SmithFamilyLoft is way up there.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

shadowgames said:


> Where would be the best source for racing results for last year? What race events are the most respected by racers?


American Racing Pigeon Union

http://pigeon-ndb.com/ndb.php


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## shadowgames (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks for the input, you got the ball moving for me.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

shadowgames said:


> Who are the lofts that are top contenders for the 2010 season? I know all people will vary with opinions in this but who do you think really have their program setup for high percentages of winning this year? *Not breeding but winning races, locally and national level.* Thanks for all input on this.


 I'm a little confused by your question. I'm not sure one could really have a fanstatic year racing on the local level, or in the One Loft events, without a very successful breeding season. So I am just a bit curious as to why you would attempt to break this down to a successful racing season, but wish to exclude a successful breeding season ? 

The challenge with trying to address your question, assuming we can deal with the breeding part of your question....is that it is hard to find agreement on who were the top lofts in 2009, and that is after the races are complete and the results are in. So, not really being able to find total agreement on who were "top" lofts from a National perspective in 2009...makes the prospect of speculating on the 2010 results even more challenging. But, I suspect that for the most part, those that were in the top 2 or 3% last year, will do well again this year. Rarely in my experience, does someone who has consistently been on the bottom half of race results year after year, do they all of a sudden become the Champion Loft.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Warren is right. I think breeding plays a HUGE part in the winning. I think it'll be hard to win consistently, but not breed the birds themselves.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I think you guys are taking it wrong, he's saying who's the best flyer not just a guy who can breed champs for other ppl but would have no clue what he's doing when it comes to racing the birds. Anybody who could afford them could go out and buy a proven pair and send the babies out to all the one loft races and have a good shot at winning but not everybody could handle the birds good enough to win races on a consistant basis on their own. Which you need to do to be a top loft and not just a good breeder IMO.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I think you guys are taking it wrong, he's saying who's the best flyer not just a guy who can breed champs for other ppl but would have no clue what he's doing when it comes to racing the birds. Anybody who could afford them could go out and buy a proven pair and send the babies out to all the one loft races and have a good shot at winning but not everybody could handle the birds good enough to win races on a consistant basis on their own. Which you need to do to be a top loft and not just a good breeder IMO.


Well I'm not sure where in the US, one can win at the "National" level, unless one is talking about One Loft Events, in which case, we are back to breeding. 

And then, just to play devil's advocate, one could be a great local champ, only because there is no real competition. Whole lot of difference in being 1st in your club, if say you are a member of some famous club in Florida, or if you are the local "Champ" in a 25 member club, where 21 of the members are under the age of 17. 

The best fliers, as far as management and handling skill, I suspect are in that Florida club. But, how many people in the USA know who those top three people in that club might be ? The person in the 20th position there, might just be better then 99% of all the members, in all the other combines in the USA. But, you could not deterime that by race results. 

The #1 person in your local club or combine, might very well end up on the bottom half of the race sheet, should he transfer to that famous Florida Club. So, getting back to the orginal question, I have no idea who the "Real" top 10 fliers were in the USA last year. So, I have no idea how to guess who might be say the top 10 in 2010.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

maryjane said:


> I'll bet the SmithFamilyLoft is way up there.


You are just too nice !  The truth is, I am very poor in management and handling. It requires time, and running a Tree Service Firm oftens leaves little time for pigeons. Any credit for my five trophies last year, goes to the quality of my birds, that were able to win, inspite of.... my management or lack thereof.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well I'm not sure where in the US, one can win at the "National" level, unless one is talking about One Loft Events, in which case, we are back to breeding.
> 
> And then, just to play devil's advocate, one could be a great local champ, only because there is no real competition. Whole lot of difference in being 1st in your club, if say you are a member of some famous club in Florida, or if you are the local "Champ" in a 25 member club, where 21 of the members are under the age of 17.
> 
> ...


They have the IF Hall of Fame and Champion Loft and whatever else and the AU has different National Awards. Back some years we used to have the NorthEast Union race which had to be one of the biggest races in this country when it comes to the number of lofts and birds involved. Thats probly the closet your gonna get when it comes to a national race. Because the country is too big it's impossible to have a national race. 

As for the Florida club I know many of the top flyers who are down in the GHC club alot of them were so so flyers up here on Long Island and have gone down there and are champs. 

I will agree with you that a guy flying against 25 lofts can never really know if your any good or if your competition is just sub par. But thats how most clubs are they have less then 25 lofts and that champ in that 25 loft club could very well also be the champ in the "Florida Club" but who knows.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Right now I would say that you are plus nine other lofts, dream big! Jim


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Au Data Base*

*Go to the AU web site www.pigeon.org/ check the National Awards, This list covers the last 11 years, *GEORGE


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

11 years in the past in pigeon racing is history! Then again they could be hidden contenders. Jim


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

There's plenty of hidden contenders for the fact that it doesn't include all the IF clubs. The IF is so far behind in the times and really has to do something to catch up with the AU.


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## fresnobirdman (Dec 27, 2008)

i think ken easley has the best birds.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Ken Christopher? I agree! Jim


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Jimhalekw said:


> 11 years in the past in pigeon racing is history! Then again they could be hidden contenders. Jim


*Did you go to the web site if you check it out they started keeping the records 11 years ago and the records are up to date 2009. Those records show that for the most part there is no one that has dominated over those years, on a national level. What I see is there are those that have a great year or 2 and then fade .Then there are those that get a good write up in the Racing Diegest, but that in it self does not make anyone a great flyer. There clubs and combines that have open shipping and there are people that have the money that will sind 50,60, 70 or more birds to a race while there others in those clubs and conbines that can only ship 15 or 20 birds, so the odds are stack against the guy that is sending a smaller team, I an not saying that they can't win but it sure becomes differcult.That is my opinion on the subject. *GEORGE


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

George that was my point in the flash in the pan so to speak. The rest of it is that the little guy needs to stay little and not try to be Ganus. Our art form here in the US has yet to be discovered, or proven. When we do take our place as a top pigeon racing country it will be trough the little guys. Ganus and others have, and are doing their part, but it is up to the breeders in small lofts to breed contenders. Jim


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jimhalekw said:


> George that was my point in the flash in the pan so to speak. The rest of it is that the little guy needs to stay little *and not try to be Ganus*. Our art form here in the US has yet to be discovered, or proven. When we do take our place as a top pigeon racing country it will be trough the little guys. Ganus and others have, and are doing their part, but *it is up to the breeders in small lofts to breed contenders*. Jim


 I am pretty sure Mr. Ganus no longer races in his local club or combine.
I think Mr. Ganus is by most measures and standards a merchant. However in terms of merchants, he sure is the top merchant in the USA. You have to be either a merchant or wealthy in order to compete in the number of One Loft events and with the numbers of teams these professionals send out. 

As far as small lofts vs. large lofts, I am not exactly sure when a loft stops being small and becomes "large". Is that when a fancier has more then 6 pairs, or is it measured by square feet ? What is the "average" number of breeding pairs that a fancier in the USA maintains ? I don't know what the European standards for small vs. large might be either. If by "small" we are talking 3 or 4 pairs, or less then 40 pairs, whatever that measure might be, does one automatically operate at a disadvantage because one owns a pair of pigeons over that magic number, whatever that number might be ?

I'm thinking small vs. large, is all a very relative measure. I suspect there are actually very few "large" racing operations in the USA...but it is all one of perspective. From my personal perspective, if you are able to ship more then 20 pigeons in a week, then you are "large". If you typically ship fewer then 10 pigeons a week then you are small. But the next pigeon bred which will take our sport in the USA to the next level, IMHO, could come from either camp, if the stars are all aligned, and the correct two pigeons are paired together.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Warren I can go to the supermarket and buy some really good cookies, or I can go to a specialty shop and buy some that are better, but I believe the very best cookies are made by someone's grandmother and not sold at all. Personally speaking, the very best cookies I have ever eaten were made by my grandmother every Christmas. They were so good I don't eat cookies anymore because of the disappointment. What is it about grandmothers, why are their cookies the best? Kitchen over a factory, attention to detail, knowing what ingredients to use, knowing the best of those ingredients, having time to do it right, learning a few tricks over the years, and making them with love are all reasons I am sure. Kind of the same with pigeons I believe. Jim


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Jimhalekw said:


> Warren I can go to the supermarket and buy some really good cookies, or I can go to a specialty shop and buy some that are better, but I believe the very best cookies are made by someone's grandmother and not sold at all. Personally speaking, the very best cookies I have ever eaten were made by my grandmother every Christmas. They were so good I don't eat cookies anymore because of the disappointment. What is it about grandmothers, why are their cookies the best? Kitchen over a factory, attention to detail, knowing what ingredients to use, knowing the best of those ingredients, having time to do it right, learning a few tricks over the years, and making them with love are all reasons I am sure. Kind of the same with pigeons I believe. Jim


Thats a really great metaphor!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jimhalekw said:


> Warren I can go to the supermarket and buy some really good cookies, or I can go to a specialty shop and buy some that are better, but I believe the very best cookies are made by someone's grandmother and not sold at all. Personally speaking, the very best cookies I have ever eaten were made by my grandmother every Christmas. They were so good I don't eat cookies anymore because of the disappointment. What is it about grandmothers, why are their cookies the best? Kitchen over a factory, attention to detail, knowing what ingredients to use, knowing the best of those ingredients, having time to do it right, learning a few tricks over the years, and making them with love are all reasons I am sure. Kind of the same with pigeons I believe. Jim


Can't disagree with the analogy very much if we were talking cookies, except that I bet my grandma made better cookies then your grand mother !  

When it comes to racing pigeons, I might suggest, that 99.9% of all racing pigeon fanciers in the USA, if not the world, are mainly small back yard operations. I don't know of any commercial operations like my one relative farmer who had over 25,000+ chickens at a time. Compared to those commercial chicken producers, we are all pretty small back yard operators are we not ? 

If we would consider race horses, which might be closer to our sport then cookie making. I am sure a very small racing operator with a single stud and a couple of mares, could produce the next Triple Crown Winner. But, it's also very likely that the corporate farm with many hundreds of millions in studs and mares, could mathematically have a better chance don't you think ?

I understand your point of course. But part of me thinks this is a story all of us little guys like to keep alive, because we emotionally need that tiny glimmer of hope, that those few pairs in that small back yard coop, will produce World famous Champions for us......of course if we are working with very average and typical homing pigeons, we have as much of a chance of becoming the next Janssen Bothers....as that small race horse operator working with a few horses rescued from the glue factory might have......

I suspect that when we use the term "large" or "Big", we are not talking about a fancier with 300 or 400 breeding pairs, or with a loft bigger then a barn. What we really mean is a guy who may only have seventy five or fewer pairs, but maybe they are a who who's collection of various racing Champions from around the world ? Or he has a super family of pigeons developed over generations, and year after year, they put him at the top of his combine. Ludo Claessen was a "Big" player in his club and Federation, but didn't keep more then sixty pigeons over the winter. So, I don't know...was Ludo for example, a small fancier or one of the Big Boys ? 

At any rate Jimhalekw, I sure hope you are right ! I have staked quite a bit on the premise, that a "small" fancier such as myself, with just a few quality pigeons, can indeed compete with the "Big" boys.....time will tell if I can duplicate some of my early successes, or if they were simply flashes in a pan....


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't know Warren, you might be "big" yourself, loft manager and all?  Scaping poop teaches me much about my birds, as does other chores in the loft. Anytime I am in the loft my birds are my focus and what I am doing comes second. Quality time as I see it.  I was raised on a horse ranch and I don't see the difference either, get a good stud and a few mares to a good cock and a few hens, but cookies are right in there. As far as the little glimor of hope we better ALL have it big, small, or just starting out, or what is the point? I absolutly agree that anyone MUST start out with great birds!!! Ludo in my mind was a fantastic example of a small loft that did huge things, and knowing the history he started well. You know what you said about my grandma isn't going down easy. Since we can't race our grandmas anymore ... LOL I enjoy talking pigeon with a pigeon man! Jim PS: Even the Janssens were small once!


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

I guess my picks would be Joe Zack, 3 Amigos , Art Hees ,Randall Berkey,Saki Becarevic... I'm not much of a futurity guy my focus is local club and combine races.
As someone mentioned check the AU site or The CJC and GHC websites.
The NYC/Long Island area has has some awesome flyers...
Pennsylvania has some hot competition that would hold there own anywhere in the US.
I'm sure the Bay area in CA is still loaded with top notch flyers.
Lots of good flyers all over the US.
Tom


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

windyflat said:


> I guess my picks would be Joe Zack, 3 Amigos , Art Hees ,Randall Berkey,Saki Becarevic... I'm not much of a futurity guy my focus is local club and combine races.
> As someone mentioned check the AU site or The CJC and GHC websites.
> The NYC/Long Island has has some awesome flyers...
> Pennsylvania has some hot competition that would hold there own anywhere in the US.
> ...


I know there's plenty of top notch flyers on Long Island and NYC I gotta fly against them every week. A few times I even got lucky and topped the combine and beat them all. LoL


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