# Seems like ascaris(round worm) in pigeon's poop!!! Here is the pic



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Just now saw this worm in poop of my pigeon, seems it is of cock's poop because hen is having watery droppings since last few days, thought may be because of excess water intake in hot summer . attaching here her poop's pic as well which is watery. Both are raising a kid which is 16 days old now. Will it affect his health too? 
Worried and need assistance on which dewormer to use? Pls suggest.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Pyrantel pamoate is probably the medicine which treats round worms but am not sure about the dose and how they will be treated if they are raising squabs?
I think I should buy it first tomorrow and then check what it mentions about the dose? 
A bit confused if it is the right choice?


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

buy pyrantel paomote syrup [brand name nemocid] from medical store.... its just 12rs a syrup and extremely safe for pigeons, i heard even thrice the normal dose, will cause no problem. dose is two drops per pigeon orally or 1 teaspoon in a litre of water for 1 whole day. i remember jass once in thread said that if a pigeon is passing roundworms then he is filled with worms and pyrantel needs to be given for continous two days and repeat after 21 ...better buy pyrantel and wait for jass's advice .
i think u too have ur pigeons on terrace and do not have free range to ground right??then they may have got roundworms before u got them...but remember to keep ur homemade grit in a oven before giving it to pigeons.....also add garlic to theri water once a week to keep worms numbers in low....


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> buy pyrantel paomote syrup [brand name nemocid] from medical store.... its just 12rs a syrup and extremely safe for pigeons, i heard even thrice the normal dose, will cause no problem. dose is two drops per pigeon orally or 1 teaspoon in a litre of water for 1 whole day. i remember jass once in thread said that if a pigeon is passing roundworms then he is filled with worms and pyrantel needs to be given for continous two days and repeat after 21 ...better buy pyrantel and wait for jass's advice .
> i think u too have ur pigeons on terrace and do not have free range to ground right??then they may have got roundworms before u got them...but remember to keep ur homemade grit in a oven before giving it to pigeons.....also add garlic to theri water once a week to keep worms numbers in low....



Thank Nare J ..I was waiting for reply but dint want my pigeons to be late to be cured in waiting time so I bought it in morning, you are right the name is nemocid. But I dint give it 1 tea spoon in 1 litre , rather I followed below link from a vet for dose as dint get any other priscription:

https://pigeonwriter.wordpress.com/worms/

So in a 750 ml water bowl I gave them 1.25 ml which is tho a bit more following the vet's advice , still as there is no harm in giving this medicine a little more I gave it. My brother said that this medicine doesn't get absorbed in body so not harmful if somewhat over dosed too.
So hopefully they should be dewormed after 48 hours treatment and repeating it after 21 days.
Thanks for further advices, I will surely stick to them.yes my pigeons are in house and rarely on terrace now, still how they got worms , I really don't know.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

they are feeding baby right?? many people say that pigeons should not be dewormed while breeding...i would remove the baby and hand fed him for a day or two, until they are dewormed and return it back to them. but experienced member will guide u better


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes they are feeding a baby 17 days old now and that was my main concern in deworming. Since I couldn't get any info anywhere that if they feed babies we shouldnt deworm them rather if we don't deworm they may pass the disease in squab. The kid himself is very aggressive and wing slaps me if I try to take him out.one day I saw his crop empty so I tried to hand fed but he is too active to be fed, always flapping wings and try to pull off his beak from my grip so it was being very difficult to hand feed him. Dont know what should I do exactly. Very confused


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

keep some feed in a cap of jar and see if he eats, its uncommon for babies to eat at this age but my handraised baby started to eat small seeds at around 19-20 days old.u just need to feed him for a couple of days then return him back to his parents.
or wait till the baby eats on his own and is weaned at around 25-28 days old and then take him away and deworm your pigeons...and to make him learn fast, keep feed inside their cage so that baby can learn to eat from his parents.....


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I think i shouldnt stop medication in between as saw 5-6 round worms an hour back while cleaning the poop that means the medicine has already started functioning.they fed the baby almost two times after medicine intake.tomorrow I think i should hand feed the baby as he doesn't eat by his own, I tried it day before yesterday, will try tomorrow once again and if he doesn't eat I will give him his feed in mouth.hope it goes smooth.thanks for the help


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Sorry for delay in replying,kiddy.
Round worms are very common in pigeons and are very hard to eradicate especially for one who hasn't a big loft and let's his pigeons pick around out of the loft.

I haven't read the thread, sorry.
Yes give nemocid to the parents,infact all the other adult birds too at the same time. Give two drops per pigeon at about 9pm by mouth after feeding them at about 5 pm in the evening. Remove water source for the night after giving med. Give med for two continous days cuz worm infestation in your pigeons is high. Scrape the poop and clean the coop after deworming. Repeat deworming after 21 days. Deworm thrice.
And always keep your loft clean


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

u should'nt stop medicating in between. i m sure ur pigeons have much more worms then 5-6. stopping it in middle will help worms to develop immunity against pyrantel, then u will have to deworm with other dewormers like ivermectin. i m too confused what to do next. removing the baby and handfeeding is obvious. jass has not read the thread so i think he doesnt know u mixed pyrantel in water. if you would have not mixed pyrantel in water ,then jass's method was great ,you would'nt have to remove the baby if u used this method of give pyrantel orally at night .
i would give pyrantel water to parent pigeons even next day after removing the baby and repeat after 21 days and again after 21 days.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Sorry for delay in replying,kiddy.
> Round worms are very common in pigeons and are very hard to eradicate especially for one who hasn't a big loft and let's his pigeons pick around out of the loft.
> 
> I haven't read the thread, sorry.
> ...



Oh you are telling the method which asks to skip meals? But since they are feeding the baby I couldn't go for that yesterday as if they do not eat what will they feed the baby and so I went for medicating water. But Naresh told this method shouldn't be chosen if they are feeding baby? So i got confused and messaged you.
So now as I am going for medicating water for 2 days as started, shouldnt they feed baby then? And so should I hand feed him? Problem is he is very agressive and over active (praises be to God) so he doesn't let me feed him, so what should I do now?
Or can I stop medicating water in between and give them the medicine in mouths skipping their meal, then too I will have to feed the baby?
Very confused


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> u should'nt stop medicating in between. i m sure ur pigeons have much more worms then 5-6. stopping it in middle will help worms to develop immunity against pyrantel, then u will have to deworm with other dewormers like ivermectin. i m too confused what to do next. removing the baby and handfeeding is obvious. jass has not read the thread so i think he doesnt know u mixed pyrantel in water. if you would have not mixed pyrantel in water ,then jass's method was great ,you would'nt have to remove the baby if u used this method of give pyrantel orally at night .
> i would give pyrantel water to parent pigeons even next day after removing the baby and repeat after 21 days and again after 21 days.


But Naresh don't they need access to feed for 24 hours when they feed babies? If I skip their meals what will they feed then? This method asks to skip meals for almost 24 hours which I understood? From 5 pm to next day 5 pm we dont have to feed them and giving medicine at 9 pm on both the days? So won't it be too hard on parents to raise the kids having no access to feed for 24 hours and then again for 24 hours after a meal in between?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kiddy,

Just a few comments as I've read your thread and a few things struck me. 

All of your birds should be treated for round worms, not just the babies parents.

Sometimes giving more than the recommended dosage isn't 'more betta' and may result in requiring a higher threshold dosage rate not to be confused with the safety margin.

You should eventually acquire rotational meds for worms, canker and coccidiosis as rotating the meds within each category of illness treatment will aid in the bird's reponse to the medicine.

Ivermectin and Moxidectin (Avermectin family) will not only treat for round worms but will kill all blood sucking feather parasites for one month from treatment.

If you can get the bird wrapped in a towel with wings immobilized, you can do 'seed pop's for the juvenile.

Treat again in the recommended 21 days to interrupt the worms' breeding cycle and treat twice a year with the same recommended dosing.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

which ever method u use u have to handfeed the baby....just remove the baby and give medicated water to them today and tommorrow return him back. 
or else ask jass if u could keep the baby with parents, who would feed him pyrantel water. its always been said not to deworm babies, so i can't be sure about this.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Kiddy,
> 
> Just a few comments as I've read your thread and a few things struck me.
> 
> ...



Hi Feral Pigeon, Thanks a lot for these important points..

Yes, I have currently 4 birds including a pair of parents, a fledgling 2 months and 3 days old and a squab of 18 days now. Feldgling is totally weaned on seeds since a month and he too is a part of medication as he drinks from the same bowl and noticed in morning today that there were few worms under his cage and there was no worm under parents' so may be he is affected with worms most and I may have seen his poop only when I confused it with cock's.

Yes I understand this point of higher threshold rate and couldn't think of it before givig the medicine because just had one point i.e of safety in mind. Also for 750 ml bowl the amount was being so less i was a bit confused whether it will work or not.I have a liquid suspension of drug which mentions 250mg/5 ml pyrantel and in the vets note required was 75 mg/gallon of water so when divided it came around .31 ml in 750 ml water so go a bit confused and when read that it can be given even 20 times without harm so gave 1.25ml i.e around 4 times more than .31 ml. Now when read Nare J post it says a tea spoon in 1 litre means 5ml or 250 mg for 1 litre, it is much much more what I read in vet's prescription (pasted a link in previous post) so I was again confused that will mine dose work?coz 1 tea spoon is almost 18 times of what vet mentions in link and people here are giving 5 times more what i gave.
So don't know now until some experienced person throws light on dose, which one to be given or either one or both can be of same effect without any harm.

By eventually acquire all the medicines for worms, canker and coccidiosis you mean they are prone to develop these diseases and so I will need them or should we rotate the medicines for all the mentioned diseases even if there are no signs of diseases as a preventive measure? I don't think we can give canker or coccidiosis medicines without symptoms, isn't it?

Are Ivermectin and moxidectin both to be given together? Are these both as safe as pyrantel?
When we see no mites on feathers still we can treat them with Ivermectin so being broad spectrum medicine it can cover all in one go?
Just now read in given vet's link that moxidectin is relatively safe and can be given during breeding, moulting etc so was it a better choice for my pigeons if available on stores here?

Wrapping the wings technique is good enough to feed the baby. Thanks for the advice, while when I tried feeding him today morning putting in my lap it was comparatively easy and he was more calm so i think if i am not able to feed some time i will wrap him as you advised.before today i tried feeding while keeping him in front of me on bed so it didn't work well.

Sorry for a long post, hope you wouldn't mind


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> which ever method u use u have to handfeed the baby....just remove the baby and give medicated water to them today and tommorrow return him back.
> or else ask jass if u could keep the baby with parents, who would feed him pyrantel water. its always been said not to deworm babies, so i can't be sure about this.


Yes I tried to feed him today morning and yes I was able to do it, seems I am learning 
Main problem is parents are searching baby to feed, again and again going to the nesting box and when I kept babys cage in corner of same room, both saw him and tried feeding him even from out of cage through bars so I kept him separate now but felt very sad about parents 

Jass is busy probably , not getting time to read the thread


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

yah jass is a teacher,he will be busy in morning in school and afternoon for tuitions,so he will be online around 8-9 pm.
i said 1 teaspoon to a litre of water bcoz thats what i read in a reply of jass in a thread.
if ur dose was recommened by vet then you should go with it.
many people give orally 2 drops per pigeon on a empty crop in morning. 
tommorrow return the baby back. and again when you will deworm after 21 days. baby will be weaned and parents should be on eggs, you need to give them fake eggs and deworm everyone with 2 drops orally. putting pyrantel in water is very confusing and you dont know how much a pigeon is getting.
just some advice in advance....if you have a lice or external parasites problem, then you may have heard mortein red hit. spray a little amount on their flight feathers and tail. works great. it will be effective for months.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> yah jass is a teacher,he will be busy in morning in school and afternoon for tuitions,so he will be online around 8-9 pm.
> i said 1 teaspoon to a litre of water bcoz thats what i read in a reply of jass in a thread.
> if ur dose was recommened by vet then you should go with it.
> many people give orally 2 drops per pigeon on a empty crop in morning.
> ...



Ok next time onwards, 2 drops direct to throat, this time confused a lot 
I don't see any lice or mites on them as of now, but strange that mortein red hit spray works good? I think it was meant for roaches/ mosquitoes?and probably bed bugs too?


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

yah it is used for cockroaches....
even i was a bit sacred to use mortein for the first time, but it was recommended by jass. jass as well as many fanciers around his area uses it.best thing is even after some months of spraying mortein on pigeons,if a pigeon fly would come and sit on a pigeon, fly will be effected by mortein and fall in the water bowl. i had to beleive this when i saw it with my eyes.....even external parasites can give worm so better to be sure......


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

May be the contents are same as in other sprays for birds so it is working that way.my main concern is it should not be harmful to birds.will see what it contains and try to match online with birds sprays available in other countries.
Nice to know that Jass apart ftom his busy schedule helps people for their birds. 
I fed the baby again at 1:30 as usually he was getting fed by parents 4 times a day. Any idea how many times is sufficient for a baby of this age to be fed?
Also i started the treatment from yesterday 2 pm so should I give them medicated water till 2 pm tomorrow?
And then which time would be suitable to handover the baby to parents?
I am concerned about how cock is cooing and trying to find baby, going to nest again and again, same with hen.I am hating to do this all but if it is for their better I have to do it...


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

yah i know that feeling its very hard to see.....
i have raised a baby pigeon from day 12 so, i will share my experience. i think u said baby is 16-17 day old right?? now he may be 18 days old. can you go to the nearest market and buy matar[peas]??? you can feed this baby like 35 peas, three times a day [means 105 peas in a day], in morning, afternoon and evening. and keep water and feed in front of him. 
yes give water till tommorrow 2 pm and return him at 4-5 pm.they will be happy seeing him. if you dont find matar you can buy dried field peas and soak them for 4-5 hours in water and feed it to baby.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

You mean to say frozen green peas like we have from Green Valley in packets? Are you sure about the chemicals they use to keep it green and fresh, honestly the colour I suspect very much about. We don't know what we eat exactly.maggie which was being used from childhood has toxic chemicals still in market.the more bright the things, more are chances of harm.the cracks we fry (papad) has non edible colours if they are colorful , always to avoid.I bought black gram bean (urad daal) and mixed in pigeon's feed as well, when used it in cooking found that had black color coating and it was actually green, all the color came off while washing, still some sticks to them badly and we eat that.results are cancers in young ages.doctors say such cancers are developed these days which were never seen earlier in young people and the reason they say is mixing harmful things in edible products to make them catchy in appearance shiny and bright.so honestly speaking I fear of such things, use green peas only when they are fresh. Dried peas are better idea I think for safer use after soaking it. I try to be careful for pigeons as I try for family. Not at all feared of death but terrible deaths of closed ones which is painful to see, I have actually seen three so.
And yes it is 18 days old today, when I started the thread it was 16, born on 2nd may. You raised the baby since day 12th right? So you fed him small grains or peas? I think they may not swallow larger ones so I fed small only and it took more than half an hour every time I fed. 
Have you ever raised any from day 1 or 2 ? We dont have kaytee here so seems impossible kind of. I think if anytime I need to feed since 1st day, what will I give, hope never face such situation still it comes in mind.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

ohhhh i didnt know that the things we use daily has chemical stuff in them...
here we get green peas directly from fields, i mean with the peas in the shells [i dont know whats it called] we have to peel it out of the shells, so i m sure they are 100% natural. but i like to use dried field peas after soaking it. i never feed grains to babies i always prefer peas because they are easy to feed.
even i think what people would do if they have to handfeed a 1 day old baby.u can order kaytee online. i saw some videos were people start feeding peas from day 7-8....
anyway u will have to return him to parents tommorrow so you can used dried field peas...by the way which state are you from??


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

ohhh yes and i forgot to say u have to give them probiotics tommorrow night like 8pm .give them like 1 or 2 drops of yogurt, this will restore good gut bacteria in them. and they after tommorrow u can give vitamins and mineral supplements. i use cobadex forte capsules, 1 capsule in 1 litre of water. and supradyn tablets sometimes. both are available in all medical stores


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> ohhhh i didnt know that the things we use daily has chemical stuff in them...
> here we get green peas directly from fields, i mean with the peas in the shells [i dont know whats it called] we have to peel it out of the shells, so i m sure they are 100% natural. but i like to use dried field peas after soaking it. i never feed grains to babies i always prefer peas because they are easy to feed.
> even i think what people would do if they have to handfeed a 1 day old baby.u can order kaytee online. i saw some videos were people start feeding peas from day 7-8....
> anyway u will have to return him to parents tommorrow so you can used dried field peas...by the way which state are you from??



Even I am not sure about those frozen peas, I just asked you as I always suspect about things which aren't fresh because of mixed products, may/may not be harmful.maggie masala has harmful chemical, has been in news too.so we just use Maggie noodles and dispose off masala (packets of spices along).
Yes we can buy kaytee online but if required kaytee will take 7 days to deliver atleast 4-5 days minimum but baby can't wait for such long to be fed.also kaytee is vey expensive here 3500 bucks or even more so we can't order in advance in case not needed so chances to waste such expensive products. 
Yes I will try dried peas tomorrow. And yes those peas are called green peas (matar) here but the season has gone now and it isnt available in market.now only frozen peas will be available. I am from U.P.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> ohhh yes and i forgot to say u have to give them probiotics tommorrow night like 8pm .give them like 1 or 2 drops of yogurt, this will restore good gut bacteria in them. and they after tommorrow u can give vitamins and mineral supplements. i use cobadex forte capsules, 1 capsule in 1 litre of water. and supradyn tablets sometimes. both are available in all medical stores


Oh thanks a lot for the information.i will buy them all tomorrow.Medical store is just 50 steps away so easy to get the meds. Thanks a lot.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

So so so sorry, I apologise for delay in replying to you kiddy and many other members too who have PMed me and I couldn't reply in time. I'm was drafting question papers for upcoming FA1 examinations to be held from tomorrow onwards. Annnd sorry I still...didn't read the thread, just read your counter reply to my post. But thread seems interesting I'll read it tomorrow while giving my examination duty.

Parents feed babies...yes ofcourse and you said the babies are 17 days old. That's why I advised giving the med late in the evening cuz until then the parents would have fed the babies already. After that they won't feed the babies (especially if you remove the water source). That is the right time to give med to the parents so they don't feed the med to the babies. That way you don't have to remove the babies from the nest or you can remove the babies after they're fed and place them back in the nest early next morning. Immediately bring out the medicated water out of loft.
Know one thing...kiddy...your birds are heavily infested with worms. Individual dosing is the best thing for them. And allow me to repeat this, treat all your adult birds at the same time. Round worms are hard to eradicate considering Indian locale especially.
Sorry,,,gotta go


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> So so so sorry, I apologise for delay in replying to you kiddy and many other members too who have PMed me and I couldn't reply in time. I'm was drafting question papers for upcoming FA1 examinations to be held from tomorrow onwards. Annnd sorry I still...didn't read the thread, just read your counter reply to my post. But thread seems interesting I'll read it tomorrow while giving my examination duty.
> 
> Parents feed babies...yes ofcourse and you said the babies are 17 days old. That's why I advised giving the med late in the evening cuz until then the parents would have fed the babies already. After that they won't feed the babies (especially if you remove the water source). That is the right time to give med to the parents so they don't feed the med to the babies. That way you don't have to remove the babies from the nest or you can remove the babies after they're fed and place them back in the nest early next morning. Immediately bring out the medicated water out of loft.
> Know one thing...kiddy...your birds are heavily infested with worms. Individual dosing is the best thing for them. And allow me to repeat this, treat all your adult birds at the same time. Round worms are hard to eradicate considering Indian locale especially.
> Sorry,,,gotta go


It's ok, I can understand the other responsibilities you have.so as now 2 days are almost over I wont give them medicated water and follow your advice of 2 drops down the throat after 21 days.right? And then again after 21 days repeating the treatment thrice.
I just wanted to make sure if it is ok as of now and my birds are on less risk now as I have seen many worms in their poops? Unhatched will be treated in further treatments and now they need no treatment till 21 days?


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

give them 2 drops of yogurt today at 8pm as probiotic
and kiddy what a coincidence, i just now read a news on fb that maggi is banned now.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great. It was already banned in u.k but in India verdicts are ususally delayed so at least good even if late


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

kiddy said:


> Hi Feral Pigeon, Thanks a lot for these important points..
> 
> Yes, I have currently 4 birds including a pair of parents, a fledgling 2 months and 3 days old and a squab of 18 days now. ...
> 
> ...


No I don't, hope you don't mind that I reciprocated...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BTW, if insects fall off three months after a spray, it would seem too toxic for the bird. Scalex is from Chrysanthemum flower, lasts a couple of weeks and is considered safe for birds.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hey thanks a lot to reciprocate even more detailed than I expected. 
Actually for dose I hardly saw any vet here, I was talking about an article by a vet , here is the link, I am usually helped online as there is no other way.

https://pigeonwriter.wordpress.com/worms/

So I don't think I can call him 

And I will remember whatever you suggested whenever required in coming time.
Btw I can't beat you ever for your experience how you can do it with eyes closed and bird in cage.it can amaze me but I don't think I can do it, if you hope so you may overestimate me. 
Also no one I have here for any practical guidance, I do it anyhow coz I have to do for love of my birds. That's all in heart for them  but doesn't come to hands.lol


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

feralpigeon said:


> BTW, if insects fall off three months after a spray, it would seem too toxic for the bird. Scalex is from Chrysanthemum flower, lasts a couple of weeks and is considered safe for birds.


ohhhhh sorrry i should'nt have said 'some months'. i just recalled, i found the bug just after 10-15 days of spraying third time [with 12 days gap]....it should be effective for a month atleast if you dont let ur pigeons bath [mine bath evry week twice or thrice].i do sprayed it around the house and still no insects.
this insect spray main incredient is cypermitrin with perfume mix..which is most commonly used insecticide.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

kiddy said:


> Hey thanks a lot to reciprocate even more detailed than I expected.
> Actually for dose I hardly saw any vet here, I was talking about an article by a vet , here is the link, I am usually helped online as there is no other way.
> 
> https://pigeonwriter.wordpress.com/worms/
> ...


I see, Kiddy...didn't realize you were getting from an online vet source. I read the link and there is good information there, though I think that some of the credits for the quotes were not punctuated properly so some statements look like they come from Chalmers but not. He would know that Moxidectin is from the Avermectin family and that while Milbemycin and Avermectin families may be closely related, they are not the same.

Moxidectin plus would be the preferred one if you can get it locally. Do orders on line make it to your house if from a pigeon supply house in the U.S.? Or is it a cost-prohibitive situation?

In time, your heart will mold your hands...patience.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Nare,

Cypermethrin is a synthetic pyrethroid and the concentration can be increased for greater insect coverage which is sometimes done when looking for a safe bed bug treatment. There are only certain insecticides approved for use where furniture is concerned and synthetic pyrethroids are approved. Probably explains the indoor pest control usage. 

As long as the concentration is low enough for approved use in birds you are fine. Google the concentration in Scalex and compare to what you are using and if the same, you should be fine. I think the normal timeline is about two weeks without exposure to water. If you add pigeon bath salts to water it should also be a good feather treatment for deterring feather parasites. Add a blood treatment (avermectin family)and blood sucking feather parasites will die before laying any eggs...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

feralpigeon said:


> I see, Kiddy...didn't realize you were getting from an online vet source. I read the link and there is good information there, though I think that some of the credits for the quotes were not punctuated properly so some statements look like they come from Chalmers but not. He would know that Moxidectin is from the Avermectin family and that while Milbemycin and Avermectin families may be closely related, they are not the same.
> 
> Moxidectin plus would be the preferred one if you can get it locally. Do orders on line make it to your house if from a pigeon supply house in the U.S.? Or is it a cost-prohibitive situation?
> 
> In time, your heart will mold your hands...patience.


Yes me too noticed that it contradicted when you said both belongs to same family, I thought you must have forgotten as I have seen you defending Chalmers here so I could hardly doubt on Chalmers knowledge but may be they arent from Chalmers, so now I trust your knowlede over this site.lol

I think we have moxidectin here for pultry use. Can't be sure untill try at some stores.it is mentioned online that some companies like Medline India supply moxidectin, will have to ask my brother too, he has much knowledge of this all.
If I can get here it's great, else should go for an alternate as think it will be very expensive to get delivered from U.S.

Ok keeping the patience if you are trusting me more than myself.lol


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hey fp, I think we can have upto 100 pms maximum and then we have to delete some of them to recieve further.is it so?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well as suggested by Naresh I gave them 2 drops of youghurt some time back.
Noticing these days that my cock seems little fluffed while roosting on one feet. My hen is still having watery poop as shown in pic earlier. Fledgling seems fine but excreted out worms in poop till yesterday , means he is infested with worms and the treatment is due after 3 weeks.
A bit confused about cock and hen.any ideas?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> Well as suggested by Naresh I gave them 2 drops of youghurt some time back.
> Noticing these days that my cock seems little fluffed while roosting on one feet. My hen is still having watery poop as shown in pic earlier. Fledgling seems fine but excreted out worms in poop till yesterday , means he is infested with worms and the treatment is due after 3 weeks.
> A bit confused about cock and hen.any ideas?


Dairy is not good for pigeons, as they can't assimilate lactose, which causes them diarrhea. Better buy probiotics from human drugstore or from vet drugstore, but be careful that some vet probiotics contain lactose as excipient, in which case human probiotics are better.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> Dairy is not good for pigeons, as they can't assimilate lactose, which causes them diarrhea. Better buy probiotics from human drugstore or from vet drugstore, but be careful that some vet probiotics contain lactose as excipient, in which case human probiotics are better.



Ok AndreiS I will get them. But my hen's poop is watery since many days, earlier it wasnt this much so I thought she is feeding the baby on crop milk, may be because of this reason she has such poop.but since almost a week or so it is watery as I attached a pic of.after dewormer it is still the same.will check it today again.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Nare,
> 
> Cypermethrin is a synthetic pyrethroid and the concentration can be increased for greater insect coverage which is sometimes done when looking for a safe bed bug treatment. There are only certain insecticides approved for use where furniture is concerned and synthetic pyrethroids are approved. Probably explains the indoor pest control usage.
> 
> As long as the concentration is low enough for approved use in birds you are fine. Google the concentration in Scalex and compare to what you are using and if the same, you should be fine. I think the normal timeline is about two weeks without exposure to water. If you add pigeon bath salts to water it should also be a good feather treatment for deterring feather parasites. Add a blood treatment (avermectin family)and blood sucking feather parasites will die before laying any eggs...


i search a lot for ivermectin but i only found ivermectin tablets and ivermectin combined with albendazol so mortein hit was only option. some lice his common, so bathing frequently with keep their number low.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

kiddy said:


> Ok AndreiS I will get them. But my hen's poop is watery since many days, earlier it wasnt this much so I thought she is feeding the baby on crop milk, may be because of this reason she has such poop.but since almost a week or so it is watery as I attached a pic of.after dewormer it is still the same.will check it today again.


yogurt will harm them when used for a long time, but just once in a while is okay. and andries if you know any human brand probiotics that is safe for pigeons, please inform us.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Nare J said:


> yogurt will harm them when used for a long time, but just once in a while is okay. and andries if you know any human brand probiotics that is safe for pigeons, please inform us.


To be effective, probiotics must be given for longer period, not only once. I give them continuously every few days, together with vitamins and hepatoprotective supplement. During antibiotic or other kind of treatment I give them daily, also accompanied by vitamins and hepatoprotective supplement. I make a small ball of moistured bread crumb and mingle it with the three components and push it with the finger tip inside the throat of pigeon, checking if he / she swallowed it, as usually they try to spit it out (as they don't like the taste of vitamins).


I think any human probiotics are good but those for children and without sweeteners (to not favorize candida) are prefered. Some of them contains only yeast and are not good, must contains some bacilus bacteria 9there are many different species used) or bacilus and yeast. Also must be packaged as small sackets with powder (for the ease of use) and must contain as big a number of bacteria as possible. I use some local (Romanian) brands, one of them has 8 billion bacteria in a sacket and the sacket costs less then the equivalent of a US dollar. From that sacket I extract around 20 doses. Another brand contains 5 billion bacteria / sacket and I make 10 - 15 doses from it.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cheese is apparently ok to feed birds, though yogurt isn't the best method for delivering probiotics to them.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

feralpigeon said:


> Cheese is apparently ok to feed birds, though yogurt isn't the best method for delivering probiotics to them.


Cheese has much saturated fat, making it unhealthy for humans. 

_A review of the medical literature published in 2012 noted that: "Cheese consumption is the leading contributor of SF (saturated fat) in the U.S. diet, and therefore would be predicted to increase LDL-C (LDL cholesterol) and consequently increase the risk of CVD (cardiovascular disease)."_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese


Animal products diet is the cause of most diseases. As a vegan for 12 years, I have a perfect health, higher energy and physical resistence than all people I know (I often walk up to 20 km / day on the streets of Bucharest, taking photos and in trips in countryside I hike / trek up to 40 km / day), and not the least: permanent enthusiasm and happiness.


Not to speak about the moral aspects: to produce milk, a cow is artificially inseminated, the calf is separated from mom in first day of life, killed if male. The farm factory cows are having a miserable life, with their organism modified to produce unnatural amounts of milk, small living spaces (not even able to turn around) etc.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Just stating the facts Andrei, and btw, there are low fat cheeses like mozerella.

Not everyone is able to be vegan from a medical point of view. There are various reasons some may choose to feed a bird cheese as in very cold weather. Songbirds are fed suet which is animal fat.

So no leather belts, gloves, shoes, boots, baseball gloves? That is true meaning of vegan...everywhere in your life, Andrei.
If you ever ingest sugar, animal ashes are used to make that....on and on.
I once knew an elder who called himself vegetarian except when his wife cooked chicken. What is that?

I understand the morality but sometimes there is a reality that doesn't and can't be reconciled.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

feralpigeon said:


> Just stating the facts Andrei, and btw, there are low fat cheeses like mozerella.


Mozarella is obtained through the method pasta fillata, which consist of treatment in hot water, which kills the bacteria:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_filata




> Not everyone is able to be vegan from a medical point of view. There are various reasons some may choose to feed a bird cheese as in very cold weather. Songbirds are fed suet which is animal fat.


The views in medical science are changing. for example, recent studies point out to the fact that not only that dairy products don't help the bones (as traditionally believed) but are damageful for skeleton, though the main problems they create is because of colesterol.



> So no leather belts, gloves, shoes, boots, baseball gloves? That is true meaning of vegan...everywhere in your life, Andrei.


Ofcourse. I still use leather products because I have no money to buy online vegan footwear (and strap, which appears in one of my videos). But the vegan dressing and footwear industry is growing and in future vegan products will easily be available even here in Romania. The number of vegans increases rapidly, especially in US. BBC futuristically predicted that in 2050 the meat sales will be banned:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130326-news-2050-all-meat-sales-banned


Meat consumption has behavioural consequences, being associated with violent and criminal tendencies, as studies in a California prison shown:
http://vegetarianspotlight.com/2011/vegan-diet-impacts-california-prison/


Also, animal breeding is responsible for 51% of the greenhouse gas emissions, according to recent studies (previously it was believed that energetic industry and cars emissions are the main contributors). So the torture of the poor animals is also the main cause of global warming:
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294




> If you ever ingest sugar, animal ashes are used to make that....on and on.
> I once knew an elder who called himself vegetarian except when his wife cooked chicken. What is that?


I don't eat anything with sugar.



> I understand the morality but sometimes there is a reality that doesn't and can't be reconciled.


The reality is what we see, not what most doctors and scientists theoretically hold, from inertia. 

Reality: people consumming meat are sick, are getting old, including carnist doctors and scientists.
Reality: vegans are healthy, even aging is avoided. Here are videos with some over 70 years old vegans that look unafected by age:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vegan+70+years+old


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sorry, but vegans also get serious systemic disease. You would like to argue and I'm not into it Andrei. I don't approve of animal cruelty. Others have, until our roboton society is fully constructed, a right to their own choices and the karma that comes with it.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

hey kiddy , you keep your pigeons in your room and rarly send them on terrace,and still they are producing eggs and raising babies. so i want to know which calcium and vitamin supplements you are using???? i use cipcal 500 tablets and calcium powder from pet shop [only supplement available in pet shop]


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Some facts on food consumption (not mere opinion but from WHO)

http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/3_foodconsumption/en/index7.html

Also world's coastal population is around 44%, they have their first choice as sea food mainly fish being in abundance so cheapest and available to everyone. they will startve to death if they dont consume sea food.

http://coastalchallenges.com/2010/01/31/un-atlas-60-of-us-live-in-the-coastal-areas/

So is the growing trend of fish food:

http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/3_foodconsumption/en/index5.html

Again I think not a matter of debate, people have their own choices(as feralpigeon said) and needs. My friend's husband suffered from some spinal problem, he was vegetarian but as per doctor's advice he had to take fish and medicines and then recovered. Even many medicines are obtained from animals so again I think all is matter of choice and needs.people even deviate when needs arise.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> hey kiddy , you keep your pigeons in your room and rarly send them on terrace,and still they are producing eggs and raising babies. so i want to know which calcium and vitamin supplements you are using???? i use cipcal 500 tablets and calcium powder from pet shop [only supplement available in pet shop]



Yes in room, very hot outside 44 degree as of yesterday. Earlier I gave ostocalcium but when asked Jass repalced with cipcal as he suggested. I do not use calcium powder instead I use crushed egg shells, my pigeons are fond of it.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

thanks...
i use cipcal when hens are preparing to lay and weekly for the birds that i keep in capitive...other birds get calcium powder [also made out of oyster shells]..weekly.
do you give any vitamin supplement?? i sometimes use cobadex forte capsules from medical stores. but it consist mainly vitamin b and c, which are also found in spinach [palak] with many other minerals and my pigeons really love spinach


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> thanks...
> i use cipcal when hens are preparing to lay and weekly for the birds that i keep in capitive...other birds get calcium powder [also made out of oyster shells]..weekly.
> do you give any vitamin supplement?? i sometimes use cobadex forte capsules from medical stores. but it consist mainly vitamin b and c, which are also found in spinach [palak] with many other minerals and my pigeons really love spinach


Well as of now I do not give them cipcal weekly, rather I give them crushed egg shells so in that form calcium reaches there body, if they need they eat it. I think excess of everything is harmful? 
Ok where do you get this calcium powder ? Pet store? I have D3 granules by Cipla for us.
Yes sometimes I give them spinach. And some medical store person suggested me vitamins for dogs and cats for pigeons, the vitamins are always same so I purchased and gave them dossolved in water. My hen was a bit down and recovered after those vitamins.the name is "concitone" for rps 56.it has vit A, D3, B2, B6, B12, C, E along with minerals. I also have "vitaminz"tablets which can be given in case required.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

kiddy said:


> Well as of now I do not give them cipcal weekly, rather I give them crushed egg shells so in that form calcium reaches there body, if they need they eat it. I think excess of everything is harmful?
> Ok where do you get this calcium powder ? Pet store? I have D3 granules by Cipla for us.
> Yes sometimes I give them spinach. And some medical store person suggested me vitamins for dogs and cats for pigeons, the vitamins are always same so I purchased and gave them dossolved in water. My hen was a bit down and recovered after those vitamins.the name is "concitone" for rps 56.it has vit A, D3, B2, B6, B12, C, E along with minerals. I also have "vitaminz"tablets which can be given in case required.


the medical store where you got concitone was it human drug store?? because here i dont have any medical store selling animal products, so i have to depend on human meds


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nare J said:


> the medical store where you got concitone was it human drug store?? because here i dont have any medical store selling animal products, so i have to depend on human meds


But this is available on pet stores. Aren't there any pet stores? Pet stores here keep all the stuff for dogs and cats and nothing of birds.I think you will get it on any pet store.
Actually I bought it from where they keep meds for both humans and pets.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I just googled and found some pet medicine suppliers in Mumbai;

http://www.indiacom.com/yellow-pages/veterinary-medicine-manufacturers-and-dealers/mumbai/

You can try them or call to confirm if they have what you need.ask for vit, minerals, ivermectin etc. if they even dont have with the name concitone, they can have same contents with some different manufacturer.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

kiddy said:


> But this is available on pet stores. Aren't there any pet stores? Pet stores here keep all the stuff for dogs and cats and nothing of birds.I think you will get it on any pet store.
> Actually I bought it from where they keep meds for both humans and pets.


thanks for info, i will try to find vimeral that is for cattle. maybe i can find it in another town.


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