# ID please



## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

It was suggested that I post this here. Ideas on color/pattern identification?


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

loooks homerish not the best pic my friend


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Heterozygous toy stencil complex on a check.


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

Hasseian, yes it's a homer I was wanting to know what to call the color and pattern.

Henk, thanks for the information. The guy I got it from said it was "some kind of opal". He's more into breeding for racing than colors.


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

Henk, if I wanted to reproduce this result how would I go about it? I really like this coloration.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Angelhologram said:


> Henk, if I wanted to reproduce this result how would I go about it? I really like this coloration.


If all 3 toystencil genes are complete you would get a white wingpattern instead of bronze. The 2 genes responsible for the bronze color are dominant.
Each gene separate would cause a darker tone of bronze though.

So cross this one with another blue check and select for the lighter bronze if that is what you want.

It looks dark for a blue check, so I doubt that it is opal.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Can you please show a pic of the tail or tell us if its tail bar is black or whitish in colour?

Does look toy stencil but I have seen Opals look like this too.


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

Is this better?


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

The tip of the tail has the same bronze coloring as the wings


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I have never seen toy stencil affect the tail in this way. If the bird is dom opal 50% of the young will also be opal but do not breed opal to opal as any young that pick up two doses of the gene, (1:4) will likely die.

If recessive opal none of the young will be opal but pair them together and/or one back to the parent and you should eventually start producing them, Once you get two of the opposite sex pair them together and ALL the will produce is opals.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Evan hit the nail on the head, it's opal.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Can an opal be that dark?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Yes, dominant opal can be so dark that it's difficult to identify that it exists in some birds.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Its a beautiful dom opal expression IMO, Nice and pink. 
Tmaas, Have you ever seen rec opal look like this? I thought I did at a friends loft. Based on the parentage they gave me I assumed it was rec opal but maybe it was infact dom opal and the hen had ben jumped by his only dom opal cock.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Yes, I've seen rec. opal look identical to this bird. It could be either dominant or recessive. 

I should have been more specific in my earlier response in that I've seen nearly unidentifiable dom. opals but rec. opal are always identifiable, ranging from very pink expression, as this bird, to pure white pattern and tail bar.

I do lean toward this bird being dom. opal though, because it looks a bit too reddish to be rec. and dom. opal is more common in flying flocks which is where this bird originated.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Pair this one to a normal blue bar, check, or t-pattern. If you produce more opals, you can assume it is dominant opal. If you never do, you'll know it is recessive opal. They can look similar and both are in homers.


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks everyone.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

What breed/color is a confirmed recessive opal?
It is Always opal with you guys...


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Henk69 said:


> What breed/color is a confirmed recessive opal?
> It is Always opal with you guys...


Ha? I'm confused.

Do you have any other suggestions aside from opal?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> Yes, I've seen rec. opal look identical to this bird. It could be either dominant or recessive.
> 
> I should have been more specific in my earlier response in that I've seen nearly unidentifiable dom. opals but rec. opal are always identifiable, ranging from very pink expression, as this bird, to pure white pattern and tail bar.
> 
> I do lean toward this bird being dom. opal though, because it looks a bit too reddish to be rec. and dom. opal is more common in flying flocks which is where this bird originated.


Yeah, I'd agree dom opal is most likely. 

I would be happy to breed dom opals that look like this bird


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Ha? I'm confused.
> 
> Do you have any other suggestions aside from opal?


Yes, see post 3


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Henk69 said:


> Yes, see post 3




TS would not affect the tail bar so we can rule that one out which only really leaves opal.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Does it? What about frill stencil.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Henk69 said:


> Does it? What about frill stencil.


FS looks completely different to this from what I have seen.

The birds phenotype is consistent in every way with opal. No point complicating things.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Well, sorry but I had a look at my toy stencil arch angels again and one also has this white strip on his tail...


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## Angelhologram (Mar 24, 2013)

Well he has been mated to this hen and we have eggs so I guess we'll see what we get. By the way I spoke to his former owner again and he said that he was Dom opal. Any guess on what this pairing will give me? http://s304.photobucket.com/user/angelhologram/media/Pigeons/image-2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Angelhologram said:


> Well he has been mated to this hen and we have eggs so I guess we'll see what we get. By the way I spoke to his former owner again and he said that he was Dom opal. Any guess on what this pairing will give me? http://s304.photobucket.com/user/angelhologram/media/Pigeons/image-2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


You will get about 50% opals and 50% non opals in mostly blue checks but if both parents carry bar then you could get a few barred babies. Of course, if the cock carries any sex linked rec. modifiers then you may get some daughter that are dilute, brown, etc..


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