# Baby Starlings I think



## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

The air conditioning guys knocked a nest off the roof working on the system this morning and these two fellows fell out on the sidewalk. They put them in a box and brought them over to me to try and save them, I think they might be starlings - they got feathers so I think a couple bottles of baby food and a couple weeks and they'll be off - I hope. Wish me luck - probably gonna need it raising these two loud mouths. 

NAB


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nabisho,


Wow..!

...cuties!


Bear in mind, Starlings, (if these are Starlings, ) while Omnivores somewhat, are primarily Carnivores, and, like all Babys, need a high percentage of Protean in their diet, and in their case, Insect or the likes of 'Protean' (and ideally, the contents of the insect's intestines, outser exoskelitan and so on, or, as near as one may come to this by various extempores, ) rather than Grain or Cereal ( or 'dairy' derived ) Protean.


Far as I know anyway...


Do they 'peep'? 'cheap'? or 'hiss'?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Nab and new charges! They are definitely starlings. Please take advantage of all the wonderful starling diet and care information at http://www.starlingtalk.com.

Terry


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*They're not chirpers - they're screamers*

I got a bottle of baby food (beef) and got a couple of shots down their throats with the syringe, I think one of the little fellows is having a tough time maybe hurt falling out the nest, the other fellow is starting to flap his little wings and scream for food, and trying to jump out of the box, I hope they both make it, they're both so dang ugly they're cute ya know. The other little fellow is kind of just sitting there eyes closed most of the time, but he does manage to get his mouth open and swallow the food, so he might make it. Thanks for the link I'm headed over there now. I'll progress report tomorrow. Somebody at work heard them screamin and named them Rob and Carl.

NAB


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Nab, 

They do look like starling babies. You may also want to try dog kibble soaked in water at room temp and feed the soaked pieces to them. This might work better and is fairly standard for songbirds. Best of luck and keep us posted


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Sorry, didn't see Terry's response...


Hope everything turns out ok for them, Nab


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nabisho,


Any kind of 'liquid' or 'squirtable' could pose serious dangers for them. They are predisposed to handle what one might call 'solid' bits of food only, or, whole, small ( correct kinds of) insects handed them head-first.

The link Terry posted is a dandy, I just went there and fell in love, it is a very good link with all sorts of excellent info.

~ In fact, Terry !!!

Fast question ~


What do you think of two-layer water Pack Sardines as an extempore food ( in small bits of course) for otherwise Insectivores or Carnivorous Bird Babys?

I have relied on it many times with what I took to be happy results, but I would appreciate your opinion if you would?

Thanks...



Have fun nabisho!

Keep them little crops happy...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

*Feedingg Starlings and Bluejays*

Whenever I find a baby starling or bluejay...I soak dry cat food ("Meow Mix") in some hot water to make it soft. I feed the baby(s) about every 4 hours or so the softened cat food with tweezers. 

Dawn


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pdpbison said:


> ~ In fact, Terry !!! Fast question ~ What do you think of two-layer water Pack Sardines as an extempore food ( in small bits of course) for otherwise Insectivores or Carnivorous Bird Babys?


Water pack should be fine .. no oil pack though. Sardines give the babies horrible bad birdie breath though .. (just joking here).

I think when dealing with any baby that needs high animal protein in the diet, that we need to do the best we can with what's available .. sardines, canned dog/cat food, baked/boiled chicken, hard boiled or microwave scrambled egg, mealworms, waxworms, minnows, crickets, etc. Depends on what kind of bird, of course, but what's important is the animal based protein in their diet.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nabisho,

Thanks Terry!


My original election of two-layer Water-Pack Sardines, was to maximize the amount of Skin and Scales available in any given bite. Usually, I rinse them well, one fish at a time, to then feed it to the Bird in bites sized appropriately.

My recent young Duck, who now has a happy new home, was very fond of these, as well as being fond of Canned Alaskan Salmon and Seaweed things.

Yes, it gives them a pleasent 'Sea' breath...lol...

Small amounts of Purple Dulce or dried 'sheet' Seaweed I believe are also good for Baby or young Insectivores or Carnivore Birds, and will help them obtain the Iodine and other trace-elements which Insects to some degree would have had.

The smaller the Sardine Fish, the larger proportion of scales and cartaledge to muscle or flesh.

Small bits of ripe Pear or other fruit, are also enjoyed by these kinds of Birds, onto which one may sprinkle a dash of powdered 'Super Greens' or powdered Wheatgrass. This, to some extent, supplying something approximate to the chlorphyl and other related compounds which various Insect intestines would have had in them.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 


Your dietary advice is very good. Fish is an excellent source of protein and amino acids readily accepted by nearly all forms of life. Although, not the "norm" for this type of bird to be eating fish, it's a good way to improvise a diet in order to fulfil another species requirements for valuable nutrients


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

*O.T./Sardines*

Having canned sardines during summer vacations, when I was a teen, and knowing what goes in that can, I wouldn't feed them to my worst enemy, much less eat them, myself. Oh, phew! Oh, yuck! And sardines do contain traces of mercury, so wonder if there would be concerns there as birdies are so much smaller than us. Would it accumulate in their bodies that much faster?
daryl


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Daryl, 

Yes, you're absolutely right in thinking this! Studies have shown that fish these days unless caught in optimum and prestine conditions in fresh water lakes, have high levels of mercury. There are risks now in everything that we (humans) eat as well as what animals consume We just have to hope that the vital nutrients are still contained within and can have a beneficial impact on the consumer


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 

Thanks...

My only concern, would be to wish to know more about how well various Birds may excrete or handle Sodium.

Now, likely, some 'dry' so called pet-foods, should have their labels scrutinized well for things which might be less than ideal in various ways.

Any 'margainal' Baby would benifit in theory from just that little bit 'more' toward our best reconning of the 'ideal', even if more robust ones can appear to handle heavier dietary compromise.


Recently, I read a short article on the extreme importance for Ppigeons, of their dietary grains to be properly 'Seasoned', or, dried over time.

Not so easy to guess how well that may be, when one buys a sack of it...

But anyway...
Pigeons, for whom there is never any occasion to feed Ocean Fish, I believe, excrete excess sodium or Salts, (through their nares? ) via some method which preceeds their little Kidneys having to deal with it.

Pretty handy...

Now, this would be nice to know more about, just on principle even, especially as concern those Carniverous or Omniverous Birds we sometimes encounter as orphan or seperated from-their-parents of Babys, who, we may wish to feed and nurture and raise.

Insects, we may recall, are in fact small 'Animals'...their Proteans are Animal Proteans.

Having to them the design of an exterior Kerotin ( of material somewhat like that of larger Animal's Beaks or Claws ) Skelitan, instead of an interior Calcified one.

The exoskelitan I am imagining is an important nutrient for the Birds who eat them, and, my guess had been that the smallest size Sardines, with the highest proportion of skin and scales, would be as close as I could get on usually some Friday night, with what I'd have on the shelves here at home...to the kind of mix of things, or of some of the things, such young Birds may need nutritionally.

Anyhoo...

I got in a Squeaker Dove youngester, couple hours ago, whose initial shyness is s-l-o-w-l-y yielding to moist finger tips caressing their Beak sides, and is now more or less beginning to get enthused to maybe be fed something...so...I gunna whip up some chow for them now...and see if they will let me feed them.

Someone found them in their yard, and there were Cats and so on about, so, they grabbed the little one and brought it here. Too young to fly, maybe, too young to have yet eaten or drank of it's own, so...


Little Wings...

Little Beaks...


Best wishes...

Phil
el ve


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 


As far as salt goes, this is a something that needs to be limited as much as possible in a pigeons, or any animals diet. Salt is one of those things that has good and bad effects, mostly bad where animals are concerned. 

Unfortuntately, salt/sodium is in EVERYTHING we humans concsume as well as animals food products, even less there but still. 

There is never the "perfect" diet, nothing is absolute and guaranteed, so we have to work with what we know is best. Through education and talking, we all learn things which not to do and what to do in accordance to what we "perceive" as the best way to handle things. This is all any of us can accomplish without being "aliens or gods". LOL


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Pigeonmomma, 

The (Water Pack, and well rinsed, of ) small Sardines, are usually very mild in flavor, and, would only be one, and not the sole, dietary element for a young Carnivore Bird for a few or several weeks of their growing.

And would be agmented with tiny bites of fresh ripe Fruit and powdered Greens on that, and other things as to one's best guess or research respecting the percentages, roughly, of fats, proteans, sugars, and whatnot else they might be designed by Nature, to have been being fed by their parents.

Grashoppers of course, generally, if one can find them, can be cut up also to be easy size bites...and too, any insect or bug to be fed to a Baby Carnivore or Omnivore Bird, or the parts of such Insects, need to be handed to the open Beak or set in there in what would have been the 'head first' orientation of the insect.

One can cultivate Meal worms fairly easily in a deep Bowl, and let them eat fresh sliced Apples in a bed of Oatmeal...these, if to be fed, should have their little heads mashed tidily, before handing them into the gapeing Beak of your little one...

Moths should have their Wings removed unless very small...thrips or mayflies and so on as far as I know, may be fed whole but of course, allwats 'head first'...

Too, one may just go to some Tropical Fish Store, buy a thousand of Meal Worms, and let them have a few days in the Apple Oat meal Bowl...to sweeten them up from their otherwise stale and torpid refridgerator existance previously...


Phil
el ve


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 


From whom would we obtain the ( 'true' ) residual pestacide content, antibiotic residue and fecal matter content, the Mercury, Lead, Cadmium and sundry else of commercial 'dry' or other, so called 'pet food'?

Or, I would trust that stuff, about as far say as I can throw it when in 100 lb bags...

Lol...

Ever read what it is made of?

Well, "some" brands are allrighty enough I imagine, but, the ones in grocery stores, I think are not 'allrighty' at all...far as I know anyway...

Anyone who has gotten a 'flu or many other innoculations, has got more Mercury and fast, than a case of Sardines would likely ever approach.

Latex Paint also...

Potatoes...

Commercial Do-Nuts...(read the box, "antifungal agents" or other phrases...'moldicides'...)


Yeeeeesh...

Oh well...

I myself would not worry about the potential Mercury content of Sardines...

Of 'Tuna, yes...

Sardines, "no"...

Best, 

Phil
el ve


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 


Yes...

"School"...is in session...allways...

Lol...

We seek to learn to be useful and informed, of many aspects, to those occasions of our relations to these Birds or their perils' or privations' address or remediations...

Having our Hearts in the right place, is the admirable foundation...after which, or upon which, knowledge, experience, and determination to get more of both, find more of both, seem to be the direction which calls...


Phil
le ve


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Brad,
> "School"...is in session...allways...


So TRUE PHIL....that is all any of us can agree on...we're always learning but again, nothing is ABSOLUTE, nothing perfect. We do our best with what we have and know, providing that we have educated ourselves as best we can


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad,


Yup...and humbly 'yup', too...

I have goofed things up sometimes and it sure hurt when I realized it.

I certainly learned some things the hard way..hard on me, but of course, was harder on them.

This Site is really a precious resource, and we can learm more here in a week, than impirically, one would likely have done, in years of intermittant guess and golly and losses...

Well, little Dove's chow got cold while I was writing, so, I will go warm it up now to fill the Baby Nipple for that method's try-out for her little curious hungry beak to try...

Wish me luck!

I know she is getting hungry by now...

Phil
el ve


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Best luck Phil....



You do a lot here and I wish you all the best in your "journey" to becoming one of those on a higher plane.....you will get there


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Sorry, that sounded condescending....wasn't meant that way. Just wishing you all the best and I know you will achieve things with positive outcomes more times than not!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 


Lol...

I am a curmudgeon...and as far as 'Higher Planes' go, I can stand at the door and look 'in' sometimes, but curmudgeons are an awkward phase needing some more improves before entrance is granted...or, they keep themselves out, in other words...

Little Dove ate nicely last night, and delicately, as is their way...she has a broken or dislocated Toe I shall deal with here in a minute...otherwise, looks fine and delicate and bright.

I was thinking, as I was trying to fall asleep while dawn was welling...

To mention that my use of the Sardines, was/is predicated on their expediency and general nutritive advantage. It is easy to allways have them in ready in one's larder or pantry...and they are, in effect, a ready enough 'Bug' like protean with various trace elements...

Now, likely a much less 'Sodium' containing Fish, and for most folks, an easy enough one to come by at the Grocery Store, would be Dover Sole.

Dover Sole of course is a delicate, often thin fillet, which need be cooked only very lightly for normal people-meals.

If rinsed well, I imagine tiny bits of it could be fed raw, or, it could be cooked "lightly' untill just becomeing easily seperated in flakes with gentle prods of a fork. In fact, years ago when I used to get swamped with Baby Sparrows to raise, I did used to do this.

Now, what I need to learn more about, is the difference, potentially or actually, between 'cooked' animal Proteans, and, raw ones. 

Or, that I am confident, the raw ones are 'better', but I would like to know more.

Likely, any good Sushi Bar, if one were to make friends with them, could supply little daily oddments of fresh wholesome Fish, which were too small for the presentations of Sushi...and these could be maybe be a pretty good thing.

Then to, in theory, raw Fish may contain various kinds of (intermuscular or visceral, stages of the life cycles of various Ocean borne ) parasites, but, I myself would not expect them to endure well the body temperatures of Birds, even if some endure the cooler endothermics of people. Again, one of those things I would like to lean more about. I wonder, do Sea Ducks or other Sea feeding and Fish eating Birds, get any of the parasites which occur in the flesh and innards of the Sea Life they feed upon?

Anyway...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## mistenle (Feb 7, 2005)

Phil

At the internet public library they have a section where you can ask questions. Maybe it will help in your quest for knowledge. You are an inspiration. 

www.ipl.org


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*Little fellows didn't make it :-(*

After I got them settled down in a warm bowl nest they got hungry and I got some strained beef baby food down them they started to poop blood and then they fell asleep, I think they might have been pretty busted up inside from the fall to the concrete, they fell about 20 feet. Pretty tough little fellows to last as long as they did. Thanks for the starlings care link - that's a great place for info on dealing with baby starlings.

RIP little Rob and little Carl

NAB :-(


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Or, that I am confident, the raw ones are 'better', but I would like to know more.
> 
> Likely, any good Sushi Bar, if one were to make friends with them, could supply little daily oddments of fresh wholesome Fish, which were too small for the presentations of Sushi...and these could be maybe be a pretty good thing.
> 
> ...


While raw vegetable based foods are higher in nutrition, raw animal products
run the risk of giving parasites, and freezing will not help w/that as tests conducted in Siberia showed that worm eggs frozen for over 100 years were 
still able to hatch. Sushi bars are wonderful, but if not marinated or cooked
the risk of getting parasites is still there. Since birds can still get roundworms
that have to be treated for, I would assume they could also get from raw
fish.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

nabisho said:


> After I got them settled down in a warm bowl nest they got hungry and I got some strained beef baby food down them they started to poop blood and then they fell asleep, I think they might have been pretty busted up inside from the fall to the concrete, they fell about 20 feet. Pretty tough little fellows to last as long as they did. Thanks for the starlings care link - that's a great place for info on dealing with baby starlings.
> 
> RIP little Rob and little Carl
> 
> NAB :-(




Hi Nabisho,

So sorry to hear about your babies, you did a good job and they were well cared for and comfortable in a loving setting which is sometimes the best 
that anyone can do. Two adorable little ones, your description of them eating and falling asleep before passing says it all.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Nab, 

Yes, very sorry that they didn't make it You did your best under the circumstances.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

So sorry Nab!

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry Nab .. the bloody feces would seem to be an indication of some serious internal injury. Bless you for helping these babies.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Nabisho,



Oooooo, sorry...


Yes, the falls from high nests which so often preceed our finding or being brought them, make for some tough situations.

It would be enough of a challenge, for us to raise them, if they could have just floated 'down' like Dandy-Lion puffs...instead of how it so often is...

Phil


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