# Black/Grizzle 2nd round



## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Fastpitch here--
This pairs 2nd round hatched out on the 5th so I will take some pics. when I band them. I didn't get pics of the last baby before I gave him to a friend, but I plan on keeping these two for the race team. They seem to have alot more "fuzz" on them so it will be interesting to see what they will look like.
Here's Mom and Dad


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Did you ever post pictures of the first clutch? What do they look like now?


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

"Fastpitch here--
This pairs 2nd round hatched out on the 5th so I will take some pics. when I band them. I didn't get pics of the last baby before I gave him to a friend, but I plan on keeping these two for the race team."
doesnt look like he had time to get pics of the first clutch


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Can't wait to see pics of the new babies! I'l bet that color crossing will be VERY pretty!!!


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

StoN3d said:


> "Fastpitch here--
> This pairs 2nd round hatched out on the 5th so I will take some pics. when I band them. I didn't get pics of the last baby before I gave him to a friend, but I plan on keeping these two for the race team."
> doesnt look like he had time to get pics of the first clutch


Lol...I totally missed that...


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Fastpitch here--
I did take pics of the first baby, they were on another thread. I had pics of him up until he was about 15 days old. But I forgot to take any when I gave him to my buddy.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Fbirdie82 said:


> I have never heard of black grizzle before. Out of curiosity, would you know if your breed's grizzle is different from the famous "Frillback grizzle"?


I have no clue.....they should be Mottled


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

There's your typical grizzle, like these:
(Homozygous grizzle, or stork) From this http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/2008YoungBirdTeam#5224136472796927314
To this http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/January19th2009#5293143117918898130
Also this one is a stork http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/January10th2009#5289850601663048066

(Heterozygous grizzle) http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/May15th2008#5200672884764646482

Tiger grizzle (mottle):
From this http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cb4AeStpOZI/SELx9ACszrI/AAAAAAAAA3w/uig0TBF6b2c/s720/red homers 003.jpg
To this http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/August15th2008#5234774063816388754


And undergrizzle:
http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/OldBirdsAndOtherFliersInTheLoft#5224123972906376818
I don't have any good pictures of undergrizzle. This bird only has it in the bars on the wings (look really close and you'll see the color washed out near the center of the feather). It can happen on the tail and flights too. It pretty much just bleaches out the color near the beginning on the feather, leaving the end colored.

Homozygous blue grizzles can moult out to become "stork mark/grizzles", and/or can look a lot like the tiger grizzle "mottles". But storks always keep the dark flights and tail. A good way to tell tiger grizzle from the other grizzles is that usually the bird will look more normal colored, then moult out more and more solid white feathers. Not the salt and pepper looking feathers, but more solid ones.


I don't know which of those is the frillback kind, or if it's a combination...or what?


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Fastpitch here--
Becky you know how the last one didn't have much "fuzz" and you said it would most likely have alot of white on it. These have alot of "fuzz".I'll take pic's when I band them, of course there's not much to see yet. That should be Friday.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, since both parents don't have grizzle, they can be heterozygous grizzles, which will have more color, explaining the fuzz. Or they might end up moulting out to be more white.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*1st. pictures*

Fastpitch here--
well here are the 1st. pics of the babies I'll take some again in about a week.
The one pic. is a little "fuzzy"


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

How old are the little ones? They look to be 5-6 days old.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Fastpitch here--
They are 8 days old today, they were born on the 5th.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

fastpitch dad said:


> Fastpitch here--
> They are 8 days old today, they were born on the 5th.


Is the second picture of the single baby the same baby on the left in the first picture? If so, I'd keep an eye on it. It seems a good bit behind the other one.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Is the second picture of the single baby the same baby on the left in the first picture? If so, I'd keep an eye on it. It seems a good bit behind the other one.


Yes it is, I've been keeping a check on him . He's a little smaller but not as much as the picture makes it look.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

fastpitch dad said:


> Yes it is, I've been keeping a check on him . He's a little smaller but not as much as the picture makes it look.


Well, I figured you were watching it close. It's not so much the size and the developement rate. One's got feathers and the other don't. Anyway....I just thought I'd mention it. I've seen the same here a few times and everything worked out just fine.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*New Picture*

Just went and checked on everyone and sent Jessica back for the camera. They are feed and happy.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Happy looking family you got there! Mom is beautiful!


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Renee, They do seem to be a little slower getting their feathers....any reason for it? Here they are at 12 days.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Master Becky,

Awesome pictures and explanation as always! Thank you!

Fastpitch_dad,

Nice looking birds. That black pigeon is eye-catching!


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Watch for runny stools*



fastpitch dad said:


> Renee, They do seem to be a little slower getting their feathers....any reason for it? Here they are at 12 days.


Slow developing squabs can indicate problems. Squab death can mean paratyphoid, death around weaning time is more likely coccidiosis. In either case, the birds are slow to develope. Very watery stools and slow growth are signs of these problems.

These are both fairly easy to treat with 4 in 1 from Foys. Not trying to alarm anyone, these are just things to be aware of and are fairly common problems in flocks of pigeons. Probably every breeder has dealt with these things if they breed pigeons long enough.

Bill


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I have set of babies that are the same way. They are growing really slow and I thought the parents are just not good parents. When should they be treated with the 4 in 1?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

fastpitch dad said:


> Renee, They do seem to be a little slower getting their feathers....any reason for it? Here they are at 12 days.


The one on the right looks to be on track. The other is a bit behind. Just have to keep an eye on them. I've only had this happen once and I was afraid that my one baby had something wrong. However, I never treated her for anything while she was a baby and she went to a new home when she was 30 days old and I'm sure that Rebecca didn't treat her for anything and then I got her back about a year later, so whatever the "problem" was.........I don't know.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I try to take care of this before breeding season*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I have set of babies that are the same way. They are growing really slow and I thought the parents are just not good parents. When should they be treated with the 4 in 1?


If you make sure all the breeders are healthy before breeding season, it is simpler. Still, once they have babies, you can treat the drinking water, the parents drink it and will also medicate the babies at the same time just by feeding them. I try not to use any meds unless I feel that I need to.

If I have seen mice in my loft over the winter, I will treat all the birds before breeding season, just to be safe. Mice bring alot of disease. If I've had mice around my birds, I always treat as if they have paratyphoid, which means a treatment of at least 14 days.

Birds do vary in their parenting skills as well. It is fairly common for one squab to get ahead of the other for a couple of reasons. Sometimes one is a day or two older than the other, sometimes the parents don't feed as well as they should. As long as both seem healthy and well fed, maybe all is well. Just some things to be aware of and keep tabs daily to note any possible problems. 

Bill


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I keep acv with the breeders so they all appear to be healthy. The only time I've seemed to have problems like yours, was when it gets really hot or really cold.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks Bill, I'll make sure to keep tabs on them like have been. This pair of breeders weren't with me before they had eggs. They were actually given to me while they were still sitting on the eggs that these babies came out of. I was very suprised that the eggs even hatched at all. The pair look very strong and healthy and it just seems like they don't feed the babies enough food to get a good solid fill. I do garlic water and ACV twice a week so I know they are healthy, they just seem to be growing at a slower rate. Will this have an affect on these babies as they turn into adults? This is the first time I've experienced this. If it does hinder the performance of these birds as adults then I will have to split this pair up and I won't be able to use these youngsters for racing.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Do the birds have a constant supply of food, or do you have them on a feeding schedule? Some people feed their pairs a certain amount twice a day, and claim it's better for the birds than having food in the individual cages all day.
I think you should give the babies a chance as well as the parents. Moving during sitting probably stressed them out, then here's a couple babies to stress them further. May be why they're off to a rough start.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

You might be right about the stress from being moved around while sitting but they have an ample supply of food 24/7 including grit. I use this method with all of my breeders. It might be more work and more of a mess but I think it makes sense to just have food available all the time.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Twice a day seems to work better for babies*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> You might be right about the stress from being moved around while sitting but they have an ample supply of food 24/7 including grit. I use this method with all of my breeders. It might be more work and more of a mess but I think it makes sense to just have food available all the time.


Feeding twice a day when birds are raising young, seems to inspire them to feed the babies better than leaving feed all the time. Maybe it just kicks in their natural instincts better as it is not natural for pigeons to have all the food that they want or even water, right in front of them at all times.

Most pigeons are very strong fliers and it is instinctive for them to forage over great distances for food and water. They are quick to learn the food and water sources in the wild and will visit them regularly during the day. This may mean flying from a city to a farm, a farm to a feedmill, a park where people feed them or just farm fields or whatever they have available.

Whenever they have ample food and water for their young, they will return home and feed their babies. This could be many miles in between. They will do this as many times in a day as is required to keep their young fed. If you leave feed and water in front of the parents all the time, they do not feel the need to rush home to feed the young, or so it seems. They will feed them but maybe more laxidaisically. 

I have found that when they are fed smaller amounts (but enough), they rush to the food and as soon as they are full, they rush back to feed the babies. They willl probably do this at least a couple times over a 15 or 20 minute period. They will repeat this in a few hours when fed again. Water is provided at all times as there seems to be no advantage to witholding water. If pigeons are allowed to run out of water, they will often drink too much when it is presented and they will not have ample room for food, sometimes they will regurgitate from gorging themselves. Makes good sense to me not to let them run out of water.

This twice a day routine has worked for me during breeding season and seems to make better feeders of the somewhat slower feeding parents.

Bill


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I used to have babies like that. At the fourth weeks they catch up and both ending up looking the same. Check for poops and make sure the smaller one is not sick.


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*update on babies*

Fastpitch here--
here they are at 16 days


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Lookin good  That first one is gonna be really pretty with its almost solid white wings.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Those two are pretty little ones........wanna send them to me?? LOL


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*latest pics*

Fastpitch here --

here are the latest pictures.The one with the most white really likes to slap at ya. I like that kind of attitude.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

What pretty little guys they've turned out to be! 
I've got a couple similar to that in the nest right now. I like the aggressive babies too, they're fun to play with


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Now I see the crop is full...Fastpitch did you PM me saying "you will send those birds to me" lol...


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*last pctures*

Fastpitch here--

Here they are in the YB loft. Pictures could be better, oh well I tried.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They look great  As does the rest of your team that I can see!


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

The youngsters look great! Thanks for sharing the pictures.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2009)

they just keep getting better looking all the time


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*round 3*

The last round for this pair this year. What's the odds of one of the babies being black. The other is going to be like the others. It's hard to tell right now because they are just starting to get there feathers but middle of next week I will take some pics.


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