# HELP!!!!!-My "Jack" just laid an egg.



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi All...........I have been suspecting for the last month or so that my "Jack" was actually a "Jackie" based upon the way she was trying to mate with me everytime I would hold him and pet him.

Thismorning to my astonishment there is one egg that is now stitting in her little nest box. She will not leave the egg to go and eat.

She has not been with another bird......so this is definately not a fertilized egg.

The egg is covered with a small amount of blood......so she must have struggled a bit passing it. I checked her vent area and she looks normal. Her poops seem very wet and not well formed.

Please tell me that she will be OK. I am sooooooooo worried about her.

What to do????????????????

Should I leave the egg with her or take it away????

Will this be the only egg or will she lay one more????

How often will this now occur????

Do I need to give her any supplements????

I'm off to church for the next few hours.........but I'll be back around noon.

Is it safe for me to leave her alone for awhile?????

I don't want anything to happen to my Jack/Jackie..........I love her so much.

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Regards,
Louise


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Congratulations!
This egg will be probably followed by another in 2-3 days. Sometimes they only lay one egg the first time.
Leave the egg and let her incubate it. It's VERY important she have calcium supplement, such as oyster shell, which can be purchased in small amounts at the pet store or at a feed store in 50# bags. Either size, it's inexpensive and lasts a long time.
Check her to make sure she can walk alright. The first egg or if the bird doesn't have enough calcium in her system can push on the sciatic nerve which is very painful. and makes it painful to walk. Often they will appear to be paralyzed in the hind quarters.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Louise and congratulations!

I would just like to add that as Jackie's mate it is your duty to share the incubation. When it is clear that she is sitting on the eggs and needs a break slide your hand under her and cover the eggs. Then she will feel that it is OK to have a wander around and stretch her wings. You don't have to stay with your hand over the eggs for any length of time, just long enough for her to know it is your turn.

BTW, my One Eyed Jack also turned out to be a Jackie.

Cynthia


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## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

hi,,her poo may be wet cos she has put her all into the egg,give her grit and vitamin,,encourage her to eat,if shes young she may not lay another,,we had young hen lay egg while flying(or it was stuck to hindquarters and came loose in flight)keep an eye on her basic needs,,im not sure but you have another older hen who may share duties???not sure how this works


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Louise -- Congrats. I had the same thing happen with my hen Pete. Thought she was a he, until she bonded w/ me and laid an egg in a vase one day.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Well now I don't feel so bad with cock birds named Peal and Rosie.

Congratulations Louise. You have already been given good advice so there is nothing more I can add. She probably will lay a second egg 48 hours after the first one. Then she will brood them. When she begins the brooding process, be forewarned that when she does get up to go, she will do a rather large, usually smelly poop. This is because she will hold it all the time she is on the nest. Someone called it the 'mother load' one day and I still think of it as that.

Enjoy your little momma bird.

Margaret


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Margarret said:


> Well now I don't feel so bad with cock birds named Peal and Rosie.
> 
> Congratulations Louise. You have already been given good advice so there is nothing more I can add. She probably will lay a second egg 48 hours after the first one. Then she will brood them. When she begins the brooding process, be forewarned that when she does get up to go, she will do a rather large, usually smelly poop. This is because she will hold it all the time she is on the nest. Someone called it the 'mother load' one day and I still think of it as that.
> 
> ...


yes the poops can be "sloppy" before and during egg laying, and of course the nesting poops which some refer to as dropping da bomb. she may benifit with you taking her off the nest mid day and let her poop, as normally a cock bird would take over to give her time to eat and drink and ...you know... drop da bomb, it is better for them to expel this regularly.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thank you all for your responses. I know this egg laying process is a perfectly normal condition for my pigeon.......but........I can't help feeling so sorry for my Jackie. Her life now has changed so dramatically. She has gone from the fun loving......out and about of the cage all day, flying around the house and enjoying herself.....to......this dutyful little hen who just sits on this egg all day that will never hatch. I did take her out of her nest and she did eat and drink a bit and then dropped the mother load aka da bomb.

I miss my Jack following me around the house all day and riding around on my head and shoulder. This may be a real crazy question.......but is there a medical procedure that can be performed.......like you would spay a cat or dog to prevent this egg laying?????

My Jack was such a happy little house pij.,,,,,I hate to think that the rest of her life she will be destined to just sit on a nest with maybe only a two week resting period between the incubation and egg laying periods.

Am I nuts?????????? Is it normal for me to feel this way???? Am I the only one who feels this way.?????

I just feel so very, very sad for my little baby Jack/Jackie.

Louise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi............I just bumped up my last post. Please read!!!!!

My Jack/Jackie is miserable............she will not eat........will not come out of her cage...is not drinking........poops only once in the evening (giant sized).

Question.............????? Since she does not have a mate........nor is this egg ever going to hatch..........Would I being doing her any harm just to remove the egg??? Would she return back to her normal self once the egg was gone.??????????? I would never want to do anything to harm her and I know I will be interupting the normal course of how Mother Nature has things planned.........but........I just can't stand to see her this way.

Help Please!!!!!


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

Put a littel bowl of seed near her while she is on the nest
she will eat when she gets hungry
Right now shes in nesting mode so she will act WAY different that what you are used to
and with her being the only pigeon she might not want to get off of her egg 
try putting your hand under her to let her know you're going to take over keeping the eggs warm for a bit and maybe she will get up and stretch her wings and eat and drink and of course POOP lol


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Louise.........Jack is not miserable. She's doing what lady pigeons do. Do like Ston3d said, put her bowl of food by the bowl. Try giving her a break. The last thing you want to do is take the egg away. She'll just lay more in about 10 days and you'll be feeling sorry for her again. Let her sit on that egg as long as she possibly will. It's all for the best. She doesn't know that the egg isn't going to hatch. Try not to put so many "human" emotions into this. She's sitting on that egg because that's what nature dictates that she do. She's not sitting there counting the day until her "baby" arrives. She's only doing what she's programmed to do instinctively. After 18 or so days, hopefully longer, she will just get up and walk away and start all over again. There's no mourning the fact that her baby didn't arrive. Pigeons all over the world do this every single day. I know that this isn't _all the other pigeons_, it's *YOUR *pigeon, but there's no sense in making yourself crazy and getting down in the dumps over something that is perfectly natural for her. The only "un-natural" part is the fact that she doesn't have a REAL mate. No one can do anything about that but you. I'm not saying rush out and get her a mate either, I'm just saying..........this is the life that you have chosen for her and you and she have to deal with it the best you can. Instead of her following you around, you'll just have to make it part of your routine to visit with her. 
In a loft situation OR in the wild feral population.......when the hen sits on the nest, she doesn't have "company"........the birds sit on their nest all alone for hours and hours.........that's just the way it works. I'll see some of my cock birds go in the box maybe a few times a day, but that's mostly because that's where their food is. Otherwise, just about the only time they "see" each other is during shift changes. 
You've got a hen. Nothing is going to change that fact. You've just got to make the most of it. As long as she's getting everything she needs nutrition wise, everything should be just fine.


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Well said, Renee (of course!!)

Louise, it's time to be THRILLED for Jack, not miserable for her! She doesn't have a _pigeon_ mate but she does see _you_ as her mate. Renee is absolutely right about not applying human emotion here .... she sees YOU as her mate and, as such, has laid an egg. She doesn't know that it's not fertile and, when it doesn't hatch, she won't mourn the "loss of her child". She's doing what _pigeons_ do!


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi Louise! So good to hear from you and good to hear an update on Jack (well Jackie now) 

Don't remove the egg - it's part of the monthly cycle she's on now. If you remove the eggs without putting dummy eggs in their place her body will start making more eggs which can cause her to have a calcium deficiency.

I've never tried this - but I wonder if you get a stuffed animal (about the same size as Jack) and put this on the egg if Jack will feel comfortable enough to be off the egg for awhile. Worth a try anyway 

Normally one mate does "daytime duty" and one does "night duty"... although mine are both female they switch off egg sitting every 4 hours during the day... gives them both a chance to stretch, eat, and poop 

Although things may be different with Jack than they were before I'm betting you and Jack will come up with some solution that doesn't involve her sitting on the eggs all day by herself.


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## nbdyuknow (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi Louise,

Great to hear about Jack (err, Jackie?) and her egg. I had the same situation with my pigeon Sophie, whom I thought was a male until about 8 months after I got her and I found an egg! You can read my frantic post on here at the time and the good advice I got and continue to get also.

Renee (Lovebirds), Ed, Dezirrae are all correct and giving you very helpful information. The only experience I can speak from is my one house-pigeon Sophie. She is on a schedule of laying and sitting for 21 days, and then being off the eggs and quite rambunctuous and the laying and sitting again. She is not upset or unhappy while sitting, in fact, she seems very peaceful and happy--a zen pigeon! 

She does view me as her "mate" and as such, I am expected to take my turn with the eggs so she can eat, have a bath, stretch her wings....and POOP. She is usually gone off the eggs just long enough to do those things and then comes back to sit on the eggs.

The only other suggestion I might have is that when I was at the same place you were, I thought I would possibly be saddened at missing out on company from my little conmpanion. 

Since I work from home, I had an easy solution--I simply put her "nest" (a converted cat bed), on my desk. So, we now sit together all day! I don't know what your particulat circumstances are or allow, but you might want to consider moving her nesting spot to a place where you can be near or with her the most frequently. However, you should also know that she will imprint that spot, and after awhile, that is where she will go, thinking that is where her nest is supposed to be, and be resistant to a new place for the nest, at least at first.

You should be proud and happy for Jack(ie)! She sounds like she is gonna be a great momma, and already like she is a great PIGEON.

Bill B.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

Im not sure why you need help when the birds do all the work , all you have to do is provide them with the nest and they pretty much do the rest  its so much easier then people make it out to be especially when pigeons make such good parents


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## nbdyuknow (Apr 10, 2007)

Im not sure why you need help when the birds do all the work , all you have to do is provide them with the nest and they pretty much do the rest its so much easier then people make it out to be especially when pigeons make such good parents 


I think it is important to understand that some of the terrific benefit of a forum like this is it is a place where people of ALL levels of knowledge of, experience with and familarity with pigeons can come to find helpful information--be they an individual who found an injured pigeon in a park, a person who keeps one or a few pigeons as "house pets" or someone who has a number of pigeons in a loft. 

I am sure the the number of times someone--usually someone new to the forum--posts a frantic question that has been doubtless answered a million times before in this same space causes numerous veterans' eyes to roll. Yet, for that person posting the frantic question, it is not a question that has been asked and answered a million times, but instead a very real concern about a bird they love and care for that need to be answered NOW. 

In March of 2007, I knew less than nothing about pigeons. They were essentially moving wallpaper as a backdrop to my life in the city. From time to time I tossed them a bit of food, but otherwise I never even spared them a moment's thought. Then, in one moment of rescuing a helpless bird from a box in the park, I became thrust into the world of pigeons. If not for forums like this one, I don't know what I would have done. I am certain that my (often frantic) questions posted to this very board were greeted by plenty of eye-rolling among long-time members. But, my only reason in posting those questions was to try and do the best I could by this bird which I was now responsible for caring for and trying to do the best I could. 

Even now, after spending two years in constant contact with this pigeon every single day, she remains mysterious to me. I have experienced her changes in behavior (frantic post), first laying of an egg (exceptionally frantic post), and serious illness (very, very frantic post). If I did not feel comfortable in this space, asking even the "dumbest" of questions, I do not know where else I would turn. 

So, please, everyone, never hesitate to ask any question about any worry regarding your pigeon(s). I know I will continue to pester everyone here with my questions and observations.

Bill B.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thanks to all of you that replied.

I get it!!! I will not mess with mother nature. Jack/Jackie is the perfect little nesting hen. She sits so patiently. I hope she returns back to her old self when this nesting cycle is over. I know I have entered too much human emotion into this. Jackie is handling this transition fine........it's me that is finding it difficult. I just miss my happy go lucky little pij following me around all day.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

lwerden Im sorry if I came across to harshly with what I said and for the way you are feeling about all of this ..i understand totally how much you love your bird and miss the way she was but I will just point out that pigeons seem to be born to do one thing very well and that is reproduce ...The fact that even hens that dont lay eggs anymore will still set in a nest as if they did tells you how ingrained this is into their very being .. once they mature they seem to never stop going thru the full cycle time an time again ... Im sure she will still always be your little girl no matter what so maybe if you just spend more time with her on the nest you could some how enjoy her that much more


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

lwerden said:


> Thanks to all of you that replied.
> 
> I get it!!! I will not mess with mother nature. Jack/Jackie is the perfect little nesting hen. She sits so patiently. I hope she returns back to her old self when this nesting cycle is over. I know I have entered too much human emotion into this. Jackie is handling this transition fine........it's me that is finding it difficult. I just miss my happy go lucky little pij following me around all day.


Every Grandparent freaks out over their first grand egg. Enjoy yourself, the first grand egg only happens once. Believe me...the novelity does wear off.
I freaked out over my first grand egg and that was 25 years ago.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

I guess this is why I dont get eggcited as I once did ,these are just some from the last month


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I guess this is why I dont get eggcited as I once did ,these are just some from the last month


LOL...I have about the same amount.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

I hate to throw them away but I do feed alot of them to the crows and night creatures that come around here after dark


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

LokotaLoft said:


> I guess this is why I dont get eggcited as I once did ,these are just some from the last month


OMG......that's funny.......I've never saved the eggs that were being discarded..........I always just chunk em' out in the woods for whatever creature wants them........


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> I hate to throw them away but I do feed alot of them to the crows and night creatures that come around here after dark


I do the same thing with the eggs, the crows know me well now. but they do add up, when you skip giving them out......LOL


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Enjoy for two food bowls! Wow! I understand now  Having only two pijis I can hardly imagine pulling that many eggs  Everyone's crows must have very conditioned, shiny feathers


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## Magpie_Heart (Feb 26, 2009)

Iwerden, there are plenty of pigeon fanciers that have "spare" fertile eggs. If its possible for you to have an extra pigeon or two, you could get 1 or 2 fertile eggs and replace Jack's egg with them. That way she could have a real baby. It's just a thought, i'm a newbie myself.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Magpie_Heart said:


> Iwerden, there are plenty of pigeon fanciers that have "spare" fertile eggs. If its possible for you to have an extra pigeon or two, you could get 1 or 2 fertile eggs and replace Jack's egg with them. That way she could have a real baby. It's just a thought, i'm a newbie myself.


Hi Louise, and congrats on the first egg! 
Yes, you could do that, but, where she is alone, she may not sit on them long enough to hatch them. And even if they hatched, it would be hard on her to care for them by herself. Louise, you'd probably have to hand raise them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Magpie_Heart said:


> Iwerden, there are plenty of pigeon fanciers that have "spare" fertile eggs. If its possible for you to have an extra pigeon or two, you could get 1 or 2 fertile eggs and replace Jack's egg with them. That way she could have a real baby. It's just a thought, i'm a newbie myself.


I know this is Louise's thread but I really need to comment here. ...doing such is not a great idea. Jackie doesn't need to have a 45 day distraction to have a fulfilled life.


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## Magpie_Heart (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm sorry, i just thought that it would be rewarding for Jack and her "mate" to raise a baby. She would be laying/sitting on eggs again probably, when one clutch doesn't hatch. She might have more freedom especially when the baby gets older. I didn't mean to annoy anyone.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

cyro51 said:


> BTW, my One Eyed Jack also turned out to be a Jackie.
> 
> Cynthia


I was gonna say that Jack is now a Jackie, but then I saw this! Lol...wait....I just said it anyways.......don't mind me.....


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Magpie_Heart said:


> I'm sorry, i just thought that it would be rewarding for Jack and her "mate" to raise a baby. She would be laying/sitting on eggs again probably, when one clutch doesn't hatch. She might have more freedom especially when the baby gets older. I didn't mean to annoy anyone.


I don't think you annoyed anyone. It is a nice idea, the hen will lay again when the babies are a few weeks old so, that does not help much. but who knows she may want to do that someday. but some would think adopting a pigeon that needs a home may be the way to go.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Magpie_Heart said:


> I'm sorry, i just thought that it would be rewarding for Jack and her "mate" to raise a baby. She would be laying/sitting on eggs again probably, when one clutch doesn't hatch. She might have more freedom especially when the baby gets older. I didn't mean to annoy anyone.


Hi Magpie  And if it hasn't been said already - welcome to Pigeon Talk!! 

You're suggestion was an wonderful contribution to the thread - your heart was certainly in the right place. I think Louise's Jackie doesn't have a mate (well, except for Louise ) so the eggs she has will always be infertile. 

Infertile eggs aren't that bad though - my two girls have 4 infertile eggs every month and take turns sitting.

Building on your suggestion though - maybe Louise may want to consider adopting a mate for Jackie... it's a thought anyway 

Look forward to hearing from you more Magpie!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,



Indeed, this is a little understood and mysterious aspect of Pigeons, that a Male Bird, seemingly over-night, becomes a Hen and lays not one, but usually two Eggs in succession, to the surprise of everyone, including himself.


Happens to us all, sooner or later ( witnessing this I mean ).


Have fun!



Give 'Jack' a Kiss-on-the-Head for me..!


Now, how is 'Snowflake' doing these days?


And any guesses on their gender?




Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Magpie_Heart said:


> I'm sorry, i just thought that it would be rewarding for Jack and her "mate" to raise a baby. She would be laying/sitting on eggs again probably, when one clutch doesn't hatch. She might have more freedom especially when the baby gets older. I didn't mean to annoy anyone.


I didn't intend to hurt your feelings at all and you weren't annoying .My 

remarks were not limited to Jack but intended to be broader to include 

everyone that thought they might let their Pigeon couple raise just one or 

two babies without thinking of the long term ramifications of doing so.

The entire baby process is so short with Pigeons and there are so many 

around already that we have one heck of finding a good home for and then 

they live such a very long time. It's a huge responsibility and one not to be 

taken lightly. And so it's this...I wanted folks to really think about it first. I'm

the one that didn't do a very good job of explaining.

Now...back to Jackie!


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi All..............Thanks for all the thoughts/ideas/suggestions regarding my current situation with "Jackie". Although I would love to see my Jackie raise her own baby, I have no intention of bringing any additional babies into this world as I feel there are already way too many unwanted/unadoptable birds out there. Sadly as a species, pigeons are not valued/protected in general, with the exception of the small amount of us that truly love them and wish to preserve/protect and nuture them. Don't get me wrong, if I found another injured/needy baby I would have no hesitation in hand raising, loving and caring for another without any reservations whatsoever. 

Now back to "Jackie"..........

She has not laid another egg since laying the first 4 days ago. I understand that this sometimes happens with the first laying.

Although Jackie for the first few days seemed to be a very dedicated/devoted egg sitter, she now seems to be getting a bit NEUROTIC. I have not disturbed her egg, and am trying to just let nature take it's course, but "Jackie" seems totally torn and confused. I think she misses her usual routine. When I open her cage door, she charges off her nest/egg and jumps onto my shoulder. It's like she is frantic to get out. She wants to be held/petted and resume her daily activities. She will follow me around for awhile, then she appears lost and flys back to her cage and very reluctently goes back to the nest and sits awhile and then back and forth this goes on all day. I guess this is the new order of things and this will be the new routine. I just want her to be healty and happy. She is eating/drinking a little better, but not nearly as much as she used to. 

Question??????????..........How much longer should I leave the egg before removing it??? I think the normal sitting time is between 18/21 days.......is this correct??? Should I leave the egg for the entire period or remove it sooner???

Regards to all,
Louise


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## Magpie_Heart (Feb 26, 2009)

Thankyou for your welcome. You are all right about there being too many unwanted pigeons, i've got squeakers on the brain at the moment .
I think Jackie would leave the egg when she's ready, but i've only had pigeons for 5 months. I hope Jackie can settle down and build a routine she's happy with. In case she's having trouble with her new name my mum is called Jackie, but she sometimes gets called Jacks.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

lwerden said:


> Hi All..............Thanks for all the thoughts/ideas/suggestions regarding my current situation with "Jackie". Although I would love to see my Jackie raise her own baby, I have no intention of bringing any additional babies into this world as I feel there are already way too many unwanted/unadoptable birds out there. Sadly as a species, pigeons are not valued/protected in general, with the exception of the small amount of us that truly love them and wish to preserve/protect and nuture them. Don't get me wrong, if I found another injured/needy baby I would have no hesitation in hand raising, loving and caring for another without any reservations whatsoever.
> 
> Now back to "Jackie"..........
> 
> ...


you can leave it for the 18 days, unless she still sits, if she sits she does not lay more eggs. so if you want her to lay sooner take the egg, you want to try to prolong the egg laying as much as you can. this being her first, Im not surprized she is confused. if you just did your duty and sat on that egg mid day then everthing woud be in order! he he,,to her, if she abondons it altogther then take it out and then it starts all over again.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,



If She's sitting the Egg all by herself, she needs a break now and then where she knows the Egg is being tended by...in this case, you.


So, gently, invite her to accept you having your Hand cupped over it, for her to have a breather now and then...you can just softly preen her Crop and Neck a little, and slip your Hand under, and she'll understand you are assuming your 'time' for the chore for a little while.



Good luck!



Phil
l v


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## driph (Jun 14, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> So, gently, invite her to accept you having your Hand cupped over it, for her to have a breather now and then...you can just softly preen her Crop and Neck a little, and slip your Hand under, and she'll understand you are assuming your 'time' for the chore for a little while.


Whenever I do this with Brisby, I just get a look like I'm some sort of idiot, followed by a whole bunch of pecking. :]


Do pigeon hens lay eggs eternally, all throughout the year, or do they go in phases? 

I miss the days of non-smelly pigeon poop...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

driph said:


> Whenever I do this with Brisby, I just get a look like I'm some sort of idiot, followed by a whole bunch of pecking. :]
> 
> 
> Do pigeon hens lay eggs eternally, all throughout the year, or do they go in phases?
> ...


Poor you. I think you'll be missing non-smelly all year long.


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