# Tippler Question



## ND Cooper

Would it be wise, to increse the homing instinct in Tipplers?
Would they drop too soon?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ND Cooper said:


> Would it be wise, to increse the homing instinct in Tipplers?
> Would they drop too soon?



I have already done that....the breed of high fliers I own, could be called "Tipplers"...but that would not be totally correct. They are the result of a collection of pigeons added over the years. One of the early hybrids made it back from a 75 mile training toss....the max for most was 50 miles. I don't do training tosses on them anymore. I did not feel that I was being a responsible "pet" owner by doing so. I am sure that their flying ability would not stack up againest most competition fliers, although I have added some champion bloodlines over time. The nice thing about great champion tipplers, is they can be purchased at a mere fraction of what a good racing pigeon would sell for. 



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## ND Cooper

When you loft fly them, are there fly offs (non returns) at all ?
Were you able to develop a seperate breed, or strain of Pigeon ?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> They may look alot like your typical "Tippler"...but as far as I am concerned, I have built my own strain of "High Flier" if not my own breed. My main focus and attention is on my own family strain of racing pigeon, but I am also enjoying the fruits of selective breeding with my "*Smith Highfliers*"..


No, I do not experience the so-called "Fly Off's"


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## ND Cooper

That's good to hear, it seems like every time I read something about Tipplers (competative flying) they are concerned about non returns.
That's about the only thing (so far) that would keep me from getting any.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

The amazing thing about pigeons, is you can breed just about what you want !  

Start with the best stock that you can, then select from the offspring those that you like the best. You can in just a few generations, create a new whole class of family of pigeons. Be they racing, show, or some sort of flying performance strain. Pigeons allow you to become an artist of sorts.

No one really knows for sure...there are as many as 300...perhaps there are up to 3000 different "breeds" of pigeons ! Create a pigeon in your "minds eye" and then breed towards that purpose, and then perhaps a whole new breed will be named the ND Cooper line or breed !


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## ND Cooper

Well I've considered doing just that, But I don't want to go through the hassle of raiseing a large ammount of pigeons, just to cull 2/3 of them,to get what I want.  
You did answer my question, so I'm not going to bother, trying to breed what I want (or hope to end up with). 
Breeding more homing abilities into Tipplers, will not improve them, conserning flyoffs, or non-returns. Because you haven't had any, in your case.
Others have.
I would like to hear what their opinion would be.
Thankyou.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ND Cooper said:


> Well I've considered doing just that, But I don't want to go through the hassle of raiseing a large ammount of pigeons, just to cull 2/3 of them,to get what I want.
> You did answer my question, so I'm not going to bother, trying to breed what I want (or hope to end up with).
> Breeding more homing abilities into Tipplers, will not improve them, conserning flyoffs, or non-returns. Because you haven't had any, in your case.
> Others have.
> I would like to hear what their opinion would be.
> Thankyou.


Not sure where to start....I only keep perhaps less then 95% of what I produce, and that might be a good year ! I don't know of a strain or breed, anywhere in the world, where I would keep 100% of the YB's I produce....so I don't know what to say in that regard. 

In regards to these so called "fly offs"...you are forgetting one very important consideration...and that is handler error. I don't know of a single strain or breed of pigeon that is so super, that they are able to overcome handler error, 100% of the time. 

My suggestion would be this...get your helmet on, and get in the game. You may be thinking about all this...way to hard. You are agonizing over "fly offs" before you have even settled your first pair. And, my guess is, even if you could somehow obtain some of the very best pigeons, from anywhere in the world, you will still suffer some sort of loses. It's the nature of the game, if you don't want to "lose" pigeons then you secure a single bird, and keep it as a pet inside your home, and never let it fly free.


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## ND Cooper

I am not agonizeing at all, just questioning!
flyoffs do not exist.
so called flyoffs are handler error.
everyone will experience handler error, and or some kind of loss.
My actions: asking questions, checking facts, and listening to other peoples past experiences, = My helmet is on! and my head is in the game!
Sorry if there was any confuson there.
I am also sorry, that I cannot just take one persons experiences as gospel, at the moment.
Thankyou for helping me.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ND Cooper said:


> .......I am also sorry, that I cannot just take one persons experiences as gospel, at the moment.
> Thankyou for helping me.


 That's all OK, and questions are OK also....take what I say with a grain of salt....as you may find the next ten fanciers, have ten totally different experiences....and different ideas concerning what their experiences mean.

I guess what I was trying to communicate, is the only experience that is ever going to really have any impact, and mean anything to you, is your own personal experience, and in this case, that means getting your own pigeons.

I wish you the best !


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## Guest

I have to agree with Warren on this as fly offs are part of having pigeons in general and not just from having dumb birds, you have human error ,hawk attacks and birds that just get carried off in a strong wind and a million other things.. The key is just to start your birds off the best you can to give them the edge .. training at an early age is key and from there you shouldnt have all that many problems with those fly offs unless they are birds that fly all night long and a storm comes thru when they are up there ..good luck


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## george simon

ND Cooper said:


> That's good to hear, it seems like every time I read something about Tipplers (competative flying) they are concerned about non returns.
> That's about the only thing (so far) that would keep me from getting any.


 HI NDCOOPER,The competive flying that is done with Tipplers is endurance flying. These birds are hi flyers and they can fly 15 or 16 or more hours. It is done at the loft location judges from the Tippler club are at the loft site when the birds are released,one judge is the offical timer the other judges are there to witness release and landing time. .GEORGE


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## ND Cooper

In searching around, I've found an artical that has given me an anser.
Tipplers.com
Under : articals/info
catagory: Releasing
Tipplers as homing pigeons


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ND Cooper said:


> In searching around, I've found an artical that has given me an anser.
> Tipplers.com
> Under : articals/info
> catagory: Releasing
> Tipplers as homing pigeons



Hello ND,

Interesting article, I had to look for it a bit, so here is the link, which should speed up your search !  

http://www.tipplers.com/info/info/04082814_tipplers_as_homing_pigeons.htm


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## johnnyksspeedshop

i've raised tipplers for many years, and i really dont see the point in breeding homers into them. if they dont make it back home after letting them go, then they automatically cull the ones with bad homing instincts. i lost few tipplers to random fly-offs, and if they did they were young. i've had falcons chase them, and return a week later alive.


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## TAWhatley

wonword said:


> if they dont make it back home after letting them go, then they automatically cull the ones with bad homing instincts.


I'm not sure I understand this comment .. can you please clarify?

Terry


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## Grim

He means if they fly and then never come back they are culled because they remove themselves from the loft. (Fly so high up and never come back)


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## ND Cooper

Thank's guys, now i've got a better understanding of the Tippler breed.
I was under the impression that Tipplers had a somewhat weak homing instintc, from what i've read.
They do not.
Common sense was telling me : don't try to change a breed that's been around for years and years.
But I had to ask.
Thankyou very much.
ND Cooper


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## vouteman

ND Cooper said:


> Well I've considered doing just that, But I don't want to go through the hassle of raiseing a large ammount of pigeons, just to cull 2/3 of them,to get what I want.
> You did answer my question, so I'm not going to bother, trying to breed what I want (or hope to end up with).
> Breeding more homing abilities into Tipplers, will not improve them, conserning flyoffs, or non-returns. Because you haven't had any, in your case.
> Others have.
> I would like to hear what their opinion would be.
> Thankyou.


There is a guy that sells tipplers on Egg-bid that calls them, ''tossing tipplers."
I think he has had them out a little over 100miles. He said he had six birds drop in three hours and seven more a half hour later. I personally haven't raised tipplers but have friend in TX that does. He likes them because the hawks don't bother his. They eat everything else that he flies but not the tipplers?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ND Cooper said:


> Thank's guys, now i've got a better understanding of the Tippler breed.
> I was under the impression that Tipplers had a somewhat weak homing instintc, from what i've read.
> They do not.
> Common sense was telling me : don't try to change a breed that's been around for years and years.
> But I had to ask.
> Thankyou very much.
> ND Cooper


Well....relative to a good racing pigeon, Tipplers do have a very weak homing ability. 

There is nothing wrong with attempting to change a breed. I attempt to do just that every year with the two breeds that I work with. My Smith Highfliers, and my Smith Racing Pigeons. I attempt to change these two families of pigeons through "Selective Breeding". Every breeder of good show pigeons or performance pigeons, attempts to do the same thing. 

To the best of my knowledge, no sane person attempts to take a family of show fantails, as an example, and attempt to turn them into racing pigeons. So if someone has a family of Tipplers which seem to get lost off the landing board, or through so called "fly offs" the answer is to breed from Tipplers whose offspring do not exhibit that trait. There is no such thing as a "pure" tippler, or a "pure" racing pigeon. Somewhere back in the family line, they all decended from the common rock dove. It was simply the selective breeding of many generations of birds, which had the traits the breeders were looking for. 

Place a whole bunch of pigeon breeds together, and let them interbreed at will, in time the whole colony will revert back to a rock dove, very similar to what a typical feral pigeon at a park looks like. And I might add, this will occur at a much faster rate, then the time it took to selectively breed a common rock dove into today's World Class racing Champion. Taking today's breeds back to the looks of a rock dove may take less then 10 years, where as it has taken 150+ years to develope the modern racing machine.


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## Guest

the only thing I can add about the tipplers that I have is that the hawks love them


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## TipplerBeni

ND 
i had tipplers for a while an i got mines trained to up to 20 miles i never went any futher and now i seem not to be able to lose i think they just breed better an smart young ever since i been doing this. I do tosses because hawks are bad an i fly all year long an sometimes here in fl the winds get bad. Tipplers are high strung jumpy birds thats why people lose alot because the feed they use also makes the bird real wirery. Pretty much like giving a 8yr old a monster energy drink an a bike an saying stay in the front yard lol THEIR GOING TO BE GONE soon as u take your eyes off them. i dont cross breed tipplers an homers but these birds are smart plus if you have good tipplers they are going to be flying high enough sso they should have a good preseption of whats around them i think 50 miles is a no biggy


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## fancy pigeon

Can eneryone help me on how to breed indan fantail pigeons


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## Magician

fancy pigeon said:


> Can eneryone help me on how to breed indan fantail pigeons


ist of all wrong area to ask but any ways

keep them in loft together cage size should be atleast 2x2x2.. depend on u if u keep them in single cage or calony system ..but i will recommend single cage system

feed them (if u dont know wat to feed i can tell too)..

one important thing they will only breed when it reaches to 10 feathers..

10 feather is an adult... 

they wont breed before that .. grab ur pigeon open its wings and take a pic upload it i will tell if its adult or not ...

best wishes


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