# My tippler color in genetic term



## APF_LOFT

That is my tippler i want to know his correct color. Is he a recessive red grizzle, red grizzle, red mottle or what? I call him red stork grizzle. Because he is a red grizzle with stork marking but i want to know his correct color in genetic term.

And what happen if i breed it to a normal blue check what is the posible color of there offspring do i get red grizzle also? 

thanks in advance


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## Henk69

He looks like a het baldhead with nun markings (gazzi, whiteside).
Whiteside/whiteshield is said to be related to grizzle.


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## Print Tippler

he is recessive red. To sum him up quickly one could just call him a recessive red splash. Seems to be heavily inverting to a whiter phenotype. Something i hear about but haven't personally seen. As for breeding to a blue bar, you could get anything, unless you know the parents and tell us that too. You will most likely not get reds though because the hen also has to have the gene to make more reds. You can normally see this on a blue based bird.


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## APF_LOFT

thanks Henk69 and Print Tippler for quick reply now i have a idea about my tippler. i want to cross this tippler to a blue check or blue bar racer.


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## Print Tippler

Why do you want to cross tipplers with racers?


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## MaryOfExeter

Definitely recessive red. I would just call him a red mottle. I can see the grizzling in the flights. He probably started out with more color and moulted in white.


In order to get more of these you'll need to mate him to a recessive red or recessive yellow bird. Preferably mottled as well. Or one that carries RR.


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## NZ Pigeon

If you do not have another bid thats recessive red or yellow then pair him to your blue and then put one of the offspring back to him, This way 50% will be this red colour.


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## APF_LOFT

Print Tippler said:


> Why do you want to cross tipplers with racers?


because i dont have available hen tippler for now and i want also to experiment in breeding like the others do.


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## Print Tippler

alright... i would look for one haha, how did you get your tipplers? who ever gave you the birds must have a hen but your birds..


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## APF_LOFT

thanks MaryOfExeter and NZ Pigeon for breeding info.


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## APF_LOFT

Print Tippler said:


> alright... i would look for one haha, how did you get your tipplers? who ever gave you the birds must have a hen but your birds..


Maybe you can give or sell some of your beautiful coloured tippler hehe. I bought my tippler in the pet shop the owner is also a pigeon fancier. he dont have also available tippler to sell right now. If i dont get hen tippler i just wait for my young tippler to mature.


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## Print Tippler

If it didn't cost a fortunes and wasn't complicated I would help you out. I'm actually cutting back and selling a lot of prints but I'm still waiting on someone to bite locally before I even go to sell on the forum. I was just saying that a tippler homer mix doesnt hold up to being a tippler or a homer. You put both in and you get neither out. If you got your red from the same guy you got your other pigeons you may get lucky and already have a bird split for red. Reds are great looking. Definitely one of my favorite if not my favorite, I can't decide anymore


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## APF_LOFT

ok Print Tippler thanks if you are near i surely visit your loft and buy some of your tippler but you are so far away. my best option now is to buy here in our local area

and i have a question are solid black colour tippler are rare?


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## Print Tippler

I wouldn't consider them rare, but i don't know. I heard if they are flesh beaked and flesh nails then its rare but i don't see why because that wouldnt be hard to do. What i would consider rare is opals and recessive red with white bars, i forget what gene does that, i heard toy stencil but i think opal. Also all white birds with pearl eyes and flesh beaks and toes. Made by ash red grizzle and piebald most likely.

Heres some pictures, this guy sells birds but didnt list these as ones he was wanting to get rid of. Im going to talk to him in the future when i have some cash and try to get some. Torts may be considered rare, cant say on that. Its all really in the eye of the beholder i guess.


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## APF_LOFT

nice looking bird i like those white with pearl eye, are those grizzles? 

black color is one of my favorite color in pigeon world.


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## Print Tippler

YeaH they are most likely ash red grizzles with splash. To make them all white with pearl eyes, otherwise you get the Bulleye.


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## rudolph.est

Print Tippler said:


> YeaH they are most likely ash red grizzles with splash. To make them all white with pearl eyes, otherwise you get the Bulleye.


The pure whites with pearl eye do not need to have any pied genes to get the desired phenotype. All that is required is ash-red (homozygous in the case of males), homozygous grizzle and homozygous pearl eye, and then a little selection to remove the last traces of red.

I bred two such birds last season (both female). The one showed two red feathers on the neck, the other was pure white. I assume bar (or even barless) would make the process easier too, but pied and splash genes are too unpredictable, and they can cause split or bull eyes too, which is obviously undesirable in this case.

This year I am trying to breed homozygous indigo, homozygous grizzle to see how that genotype is expressed. I am hoping for a bird that is close to (if not totally) white.


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## jaelyn loft

Print Tippler said:


> I wouldn't consider them rare, but i don't know. I heard if they are flesh beaked and flesh nails then its rare but i don't see why because that wouldnt be hard to do. What i would consider rare is opals and recessive red with white bars, i forget what gene does that, i heard toy stencil but i think opal. Also all white birds with pearl eyes and flesh beaks and toes. Made by ash red grizzle and piebald most likely.
> 
> Heres some pictures, this guy sells birds but didnt list these as ones he was wanting to get rid of. Im going to talk to him in the future when i have some cash and try to get some. Torts may be considered rare, cant say on that. Its all really in the eye of the beholder i guess.


i know those birds... jag loft from the bronx hes got some nice tipplers... i just picked up a solid white pair over the weekend just like those


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## NZ Pigeon

rudolph.est said:


> The pure whites with pearl eye do not need to have any pied genes to get the desired phenotype. All that is required is ash-red (homozygous in the case of males), homozygous grizzle and homozygous pearl eye, and then a little selection to remove the last traces of red.
> 
> I bred two such birds last season (both female). The one showed two red feathers on the neck, the other was pure white. I assume bar (or even barless) would make the process easier too, but pied and splash genes are too unpredictable, and they can cause split or bull eyes too, which is obviously undesirable in this case.
> 
> *This year I am trying to breed homozygous indigo, homozygous grizzle to see how that genotype is expressed. I am hoping for a bird that is close to (if not totally) white.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> That should work well, Let me know how you go with that, I am interested to hear.


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## Print Tippler

jaelyn loft said:


> i know those birds... jag loft from the bronx hes got some nice tipplers... i just picked up a solid white pair over the weekend just like those


Yeah I pulled them off his website. I got in touch with him and may be getting birds in the future. I wanted all the things he doesn't normally sell ofcourse or doesn't have a large supply. Those whites will be real nice. Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind that is, how much did you pay for those whites? I never spoke any prices with him. His birds are nice but I wouldn't ever drop in significant amount of money on birds, shipping and box for 6-12 birds is already a good sum to drop down


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## jaelyn loft

Print Tippler said:


> Yeah I pulled them off his website. I got in touch with him and may be getting birds in the future. I wanted all the things he doesn't normally sell ofcourse or doesn't have a large supply. Those whites will be real nice. Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind that is, how much did you pay for those whites? I never spoke any prices with him. His birds are nice but I wouldn't ever drop in significant amount of money on birds, shipping and box for 6-12 birds is already a good sum to drop down


i didnt get my whites from him but i paid 45 for the pair they look identical to those i will post some pics hopefully tonight.... i would love to get my hands on some of those gold bars


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## george simon

APF_LOFT said:


> That is my tippler i want to know his correct color. Is he a recessive red grizzle, red grizzle, red mottle or what? I call him red stork grizzle. Because he is a red grizzle with stork marking but i want to know his correct color in genetic term.
> 
> And what happen if i breed it to a normal blue check what is the posible color of there offspring do i get red grizzle also?
> 
> thanks in advance


*Hi APF LOFT, The bird you have pictured is not a stork marked Grizzle but is in fact a Recessive Red carring the gene or genes that cause the bird to lose the red feathers when it molts. In Quinn's book "An Introduction to PIGEON SCIENCE " on page107 this is what he has said, "Reversion to White.....The process of reversion to,associated with the reduced pigment resvoirs of recessive red pigeons,is called acromatosis. The natural reversion to white in Whiteside Tumblers and the artificial reversion through plucking color pigeons, exemplifies this form.Very little is understood about this pigmentation process or the genes involved" (END OF QUOTE) I do not know how old your birdis but if it is still rather young 2or3v years old it may still lose the red feathers every time it molts. I have birds in my loft that carry this trait, one that is about 5 years old started out as a all red recessive red today he only shows red on his head and neck.* . GEORGE


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## APF_LOFT

so my bird is not grizzle?

he have a stork like marking when i got him now he almost have white flights


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## Ralphie

APF_LOFT said:


> That is my tippler i want to know his correct color. Is he a recessive red grizzle, red grizzle, red mottle or what? I call him red stork grizzle. Because he is a red grizzle with stork marking but i want to know his correct color in genetic term.
> 
> And what happen if i breed it to a normal blue check what is the posible color of there offspring do i get red grizzle also?
> 
> thanks in advance


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## Ralphie

jaelyn loft said:


> i didnt get my whites from him but i paid 45 for the pair they look identical to those i will post some pics hopefully tonight.... i would love to get my hands on some of those gold bars
> [Recessive red printed tippler, been working with them for years. Not a grizzle at all, a check wouldn't be ideal to breed it to....🎯


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