# Designing a loft...divided vs. a single large area?



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, my horse is in the process of being sold and I'm starting a new job. That means I will have enough money to build my free-standing loft. So, it's time to start thinking of loft designs... I expect to have a pre-made shed altered by a handyman or custom built to my specifications. My best friends brother could make a palace of a loft for me if he has time, otherwise I will be hiring someone else to do the work. I decided to go forward full blast and that means not waiting for hubby to have time to do things. 

So, if I built my own I would for sure have at least two sections to my loft for separation of breeders, etc. But, how important is that? There is a pre-built VERY nice loft in my area that only has one section. It's 8X8 and he's asking $800. I'm trying to rule it out, so I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on 1 section vs. two?

Also, I'm looking for a loft that is about 8X10 - 10X12. Should I tell the builder my loft needs and let him suggest buildings or should I have a loft design (blueprint) ready for him?

I just need to chat about this with someone and narrow down my wants/needs before talking to a handyman/builder.

Thanks.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

get ideas from Lovebirds loft . Ideal to have three sections one for your ob flyers, one for the training ybs and a breeding section for the pairs you want to breed, also decide how many birds you want to have total and decide how big the loft should be, have to have aviaries as well. you can use the yb section(when birds are trained) to put hens in when you want to seperate them form the cock birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think it is also important to have an area to seperate your males from females, after the breeding season is over.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I really like LoveBirds Loft design... This one: http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/WidowhoodLoftPage.html

How much do you think something like this would cost of I had someone else build it? I wouldn't need mine near as fancy, but I like the basic design of it.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I really like LoveBirds Loft design... This one: http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/WidowhoodLoftPage.html
> 
> How much do you think something like this would cost of I had someone else build it? I wouldn't need mine near as fancy, but I like the basic design of it.


how many birds do you want to keep? that will tell how big it is supposed to be for you.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I really like LoveBirds Loft design... This one: http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/WidowhoodLoftPage.html
> 
> How much do you think something like this would cost of I had someone else build it? I wouldn't need mine near as fancy, but I like the basic design of it.


Just dropping in and right back out again.........WE built that loft and it was around $1500, but that was 4 years ago. My husband did all the work plus ran the electric. Things have gone up since then.
In fact, my husband is building some nest boxes right now for a guy in our club. He priced the lumber last Wed........went to buy it yesterday and some of it had gone up $1.00 a sheet...............
If you paid someone to do it, I expect it would cost quite a bit. YOU could probably build two for what they would charge you.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks LoveBird. I'm in the process of talking to all kinds of builders. One guy said if I found a pre-built shed that he could put it in our backyard. Then he'd do the alterations to make it a coop.

I'm hoping to keep around 30-40 birds. I was saying 20 before, but I think 30-40 is probably a little more realistic.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh, and Lovebird? What if we didn't finish the walls inside quite as nice and made it more basic...do you think that would cut the price down at all?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Oh, and Lovebird? What if we didn't finish the walls inside quite as nice and made it more basic...do you think that would cut the price down at all?


Yea, lots of people don't finish the inside. We had just taken down all the paneling in our den and put up drywall, so my husband reused what we took down to do the inside of our lofts.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> So, my horse is in the process of being sold and I'm starting a new job. That means I will have enough money to build my free-standing loft. So, it's time to start thinking of loft designs... I expect to have a pre-made shed altered by a handyman or custom built to my specifications. My best friends brother could make a palace of a loft for me if he has time, otherwise I will be hiring someone else to do the work. I decided to go forward full blast and that means not waiting for hubby to have time to do things.
> 
> So, if I built my own I would for sure have at least two sections to my loft for separation of breeders, etc. But, how important is that? There is a pre-built VERY nice loft in my area that only has one section. It's 8X8 and he's asking $800. I'm trying to rule it out, so I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on 1 section vs. two?
> 
> ...


A quick way to figure out how many birds a loft will hold......l
8 X 10 = 80 divided by 2 = 40. That's approx number. Of course, less is better and I wouldn't put MORE than that.
10 X 12 = 120 divided by 2 = 60
Even each section in a loft with more than one section can be figured like this.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, I actually found someone who could build a loft using LoveBird's design. Is it okay if we use your design, Lovebird? I absolutely LOVE it. It seems about perfect for my needs and won't look bad as just a nice shed if we ever get out of pigeons.  Your husband much be VERY good.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I did not finish the inside of my loft and it is just fine. I did the perches from Lovebirds idea and I really like them. here is a pic of the inside and what it looks like unfinished with the Lovebirds perches.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> So, I actually found someone who could build a loft using LoveBird's design. Is it okay if we use your design, Lovebird? I absolutely LOVE it. It seems about perfect for my needs and won't look bad as just a nice shed if we ever get out of pigeons.  Your husband much be VERY good.


Help your self! Wait till you see the set of nest boxes he's building. It's a 4 X 8 box with 9 nest boxes and doors. When he's finished, we're taking it over and just hanging it on the wall. I wish he had built three or four lofts before he built ours. Every time he builds one, he comes up with some new idea, which of course I don't have in MY loft.......LOL


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## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Love those whites! Do you find your birds poop a lot on the ones below?
I have wooden V-perches so the birds keep pretty clean, but the perches seem so flimsy and a number of them have broken. I was thinking of replacing the V-perches with perches like this.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> Love those whites! Do you find your birds poop a lot on the ones below?
> I have wooden V-perches so the birds keep pretty clean, but the perches seem so flimsy and a number of them have broken. I was thinking of replacing the V-perches with perches like this.


I have not had a prob with pooping on each other, I imagine it may happen sometimes, but my birds get a bath one or two times a week. the v perches look uncomfortable to me, but thats just me, these are easy to clean and really don't pile up with poo because it is off the wall 2 inches and most of the poopies fall to the floor.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Okay, I have two quotes coming in for building a basic version of your coop, Lovebird. I'll let you all know what they are when I get them. I'm still hoping to find a pre-built shed, cause materials are so expensive, but we'll see. If it's anywhere near by price limit I may consider having it built from scratch... It's sure be nice to have things new and to my specifications. Any other suggestions? Would you do things any different, Lovebird? I was thinking of making it a touch wider(deeper), but only if it was not too expensive to do so.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Okay, I have two quotes coming in for building a basic version of your coop, Lovebird. I'll let you all know what they are when I get them. I'm still hoping to find a pre-built shed, cause materials are so expensive, but we'll see. If it's anywhere near by price limit I may consider having it built from scratch... It's sure be nice to have things new and to my specifications. Any other suggestions? Would you do things any different, Lovebird? I was thinking of making it a touch wider(deeper), but only if it was not too expensive to do so.


Our little loft is 8 X 16. The lumber comes in 4ft panels, so IMO, if you make it bigger (deeper) then you might as well go 16ft deep, because any less than that, you'd be cutting off the 4ft lumber. It of course can be used for other things. My husband doesn't throw away ANY wood. 
So, you're going with 2 sections?
What exactly are your plans for your birds? Are you looking to get more? Will you be raising babies? 
My loft is in two sections but one is quite a bit smaller than the other and there's a reason for that, but depending on what your plans are, you may or may not want to do that.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I would like to keep a couple of teams of homers. Fly them for fun and for family enjoyment. I'm toying with the idea of doing white bird release on the side to off-set costs. I'd also like to keep some Parlor Rollers (for now since my son is 2) for my husband and son-they may perhaps migrate to a flying pigeon later on.  We thought that would be more fun then the normal backyard rabbit. I guess I was under the impression that they breed/multiple quickly, so I thought a large loft would be better. I thought the cock side might double as the breeding coop, but other than that I hadn't thought about the size difference. Please share!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I would like to keep a couple of teams of homers. Fly them for fun and for family enjoyment. I'm toying with the idea of doing white bird release on the side to off-set costs. I'd also like to keep some Parlor Rollers (for now since my son is 2) for my husband and son-they may perhaps migrate to a flying pigeon later on.  We thought that would be more fun then the normal backyard rabbit. I guess I was under the impression that they breed/multiple quickly, so I thought a large loft would be better. I thought the cock side might double as the breeding coop, but other than that I hadn't thought about the size difference. Please share!!


Well, let's see.....homers, white birds for a release and Parlor Tumblers.
You need to build a barn.....a BIG barn........
Seriously though.........my small loft isn't near big enough to keep all those birds. And, your impression is correct. They DO breed/multiply quickly. 
You COULD keep your white birds and homers together, but the problem with that is keeping the white birds white. They would mate up with the homers no doubt, cause that's "Murphy's Law" and before long, your white birds would be grizzles, blue check, blue bars, etc..........
An 8 X 16 could be divided into 3 sections of approx. 5ft each, so three 4 X 5 section would hold 10 birds each. 
The reason my loft has a section bigger than the other, is so when I put my birds together....there's room for all of them. I keep between 12 and 15 (going back to 12 this year) pairs of birds. The small section, which is 4 X 8 will hold 15 birds. The larger section, which is 8 X 8, will hold 32 birds, so there's plenty of room for 24 or 30 when they are together.
It's a good idea to separate the sexes for at least part of the year, but it's not absolutely necessary. As long as they are together, they'll always be on a nest of eggs. The eggs of course can be replaced with plastic/wooden eggs, so you don't have to raise babies all the time, but IMO, the hens need a break for a while every year. 
SO........let's say you DON'T separate your pairs........you could keep the breeders in the bigger side and put the youngsters that you raise on the smaller side, but you're still limited to 15 or 16 babies. 
Once the babies reach 28 to 30 days old, they really should be moved out of the breeder section, away from the parents. By this age, the parents are starting another nest and will view their youngsters as just another pigeon. Lots of babies get scalped because of this. Between the parents and the other birds, they're just better off in thier own section where they can all be babies together and grow up together. 
So, you get your breeders, you raise a few babies..........next year, your "babies" will now be a year old and THEY'LL want to make nests and have babies. Where will the babies go in two years? Where will the one year old birds go? You can put them in the breeders section, but then you've got to move out some breeders to make room...........it's really a vicious cycle and you can get overrun in no time, which leads to sick, unhappy birds which makes YOU unhappy and frustrated.........
I'm really not trying to discourage you. Just trying to make a point. 
Now, if you are well disciplined and have good self control, you can make a loft the size you're talking about work, but if you're like the REST of us........we have NO self control when it comes to pigeons. My husband is the reason I don't have more birds than I do. 
It really boils down to doing your homework, figuring out what you REALLY want to do and build what you need to build to do what you want to do. 
When we started with pigeons, we build a small 8 X 10 loft. No sooner than we got through with it, we knocked out a wall and added another 4 ft.
When we moved here, we built the big loft. That was SUPPOSED to function and do everything we wanted to do with pigeons. The next year, we built the smaller loft. AND, if I had MY way....we'd probably have at least one more loft and maybe even two.
Sounds like fun???


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## Hutchison (Aug 12, 2008)

Keep an eye out at the home improvement stores. They will often close out paneling designs/patterns or sell stock super cheap when doing a re-set in that area. I got 15 sheets of a lt blue denim pattern that I used for my dog kennel for 1.00 a sheet, normally 15.00, of course I worked there, but if you frequent a particular store and are "good" to the guys/gals on the floor and shop with that person often... they'll tend to give you better price breaks. You could also finish with 1/4 in exterior rated Luan (lou-wan) plywood. It will take paint fairly well if you use a good primer too.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, you all warned me about checking with my city about keeping pigeons. I finally tracked down the guy in charge and he thinks Pigeon Coops would be illegal in my neighborhood. He said there is nothing in the city codes, so that makes them illegal. The problem is I know of people in my area that have them! Anyone have any suggestions? Is this it? Am I going to have to give up?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

We can't answer that. I guess try to go talk to some of the folks who have a loft already. You might get by with something small to house the 4 birds you've got, but you REALLY don't want to get into this, only to have someone tell you that you've got to get rid of the birds.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I've got the number for a pigeon guy in my area, so I'm hoping he knows what the rules are. Otherwise, I will sell my white homers and probably just get some parlor rollers for fun. I would only want one pair of those and they can be considered a caged bird. I can just go ahead with a garden shed and make a little section for my rollers. That would still be super fun, right?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I've got the number for a pigeon guy in my area, so I'm hoping he knows what the rules are. Otherwise, I will sell my white homers and probably just get some parlor rollers for fun. I would only want one pair of those and they can be considered a caged bird. I can just go ahead with a garden shed and make a little section for my rollers. That would still be super fun, right?


I don't have rollers but....yea they do sound fun,...good thing your doing your "homework" before hand.....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I've got the number for a pigeon guy in my area, so I'm hoping he knows what the rules are. Otherwise, I will sell my white homers and probably just get some parlor rollers for fun. I would only want one pair of those and they can be considered a caged bird. I can just go ahead with a garden shed and make a little section for my rollers. That would still be super fun, right?


Well, Rollers are still pigeons and they are meant to fly and if you aren't supposed to have pigeons, if they fly, you get in trouble and I don't think it's fair to get them and NOT let them fly. 
If you can get away with having a small amount of pigeons then I'd go with a breed that doesn't ever need to be out of the loft. Fantails, Satinettes, Figuritas, there's a whole bunch of fancy breeds.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> I don't have rollers but....yea they do sound fun,...good thing your doing your "homework" before hand.....


I think it was you or lovebirds that told me to check. Thank you-whoever it was! I was gonna spend like $2K on that coop too! That would have been quite the shock to find out it was illegal. 

I passed up a super cute pair of parlor rollers at the swap too. 

If anyone responsible is interested in my white homers-let me know! To a good home I would let them go for what I paid.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, Rollers are still pigeons and they are meant to fly and if you aren't supposed to have pigeons, if they fly, you get in trouble and I don't think it's fair to get them and NOT let them fly.
> If you can get away with having a small amount of pigeons then I'd go with a breed that doesn't ever need to be out of the loft. Fantails, Satinettes, Figuritas, there's a whole bunch of fancy breeds.


Now I got to see Parlor Rollers at the swap and they don't fly. The breeder said they are flightless.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Now I got to see Parlor Rollers at the swap and they don't fly. The breeder said they are flightless.


OH, my mistake. There are Rollers and there are Parlor Rollers. Rollers turn flips while flying up high. Parlor Rollers roll on the ground and yes, they are flightless.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Now I got to see Parlor Rollers at the swap and they don't fly. The breeder said they are flightless.


flightless parlor rollers....now that is a new one for me


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Parlor Rollers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq47IvBuo6M

Rollers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y3fuso4J8E


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

...lol.....im sorry but I have never seen a parlor roller before, it cracks me up.
seems like they would get hurt though doing all those summersalts


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> ...lol.....im sorry but I have never seen a parlor roller before, it cracks me up.
> seems like they would get hurt though doing all those summersalts


I don't really know that much about them. I have wondered if they do the flipping thing in the loft or just if they're outside in an open area. And, do they need perches or what? I honestly don't know.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Aren't they neat! They seem very docile and fun. I know my family would all enjoy watching them.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I have my estimate... Just thought I'd share with you all.

$2136.32

I also heard back from a city council member and he's doing some more research for me.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

let us know after you have the approval....then you can talk numbers......the horse in front of the cart.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I only gave the estimate for others who might be considering having the loft built.  

I think I may just do some rollers even if it is legal. They seem like they would be more fun and neighbor friendly.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I only gave the estimate for others who might be considering having the loft built.
> 
> I think I may just do some rollers even if it is legal. They seem like they would be more fun and neighbor friendly.


so you are not going to be white wings or white bird co.?....just have a few pet rollers?.....I thought you wanted to do white release?...ok now Im confused....but thats not saying much...lol..


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> so you are not going to be white wings or white bird co.?....just have a few pet rollers?.....I thought you wanted to do white release?...ok now Im confused....but thats not saying much...lol..


White Bird Release is a ongoing dream of mine. LOL.  That is what got me interested in pigeons to begin with. I guess what I didn't count on was just really liking pigeons in general!  You know? I fell in love originally with the white homers, but the more I see of pigeons the more I'm loving them in general. Plus, Parlor Rollers would be something fun for my husband, son and I to do in the backyard right now! We won't have to do as much training and stuff. They would just be our pets.

We'll see.  I'm actually in contact with the city clerk, the city attorney and everyone of the city council members. I keeping thinking they might give in simply because I'm so buggy! LOL. Oh and I'm getting a packet from the AU and delivering it to the city attorney. Yup, I think I'm going to find a way around this somehow...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I have my estimate... Just thought I'd share with you all.
> 
> $2136.32
> 
> I also heard back from a city council member and he's doing some more research for me.


That's for the 8 X 16? Just walls and floor or does that include the aviaries, and inside work, boxes, perches, etc...........?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> That's for the 8 X 16? Just walls and floor or does that include the aviaries, and inside work, boxes, perches, etc...........?


Well, that is a version without finished walls or insulation. He used your plans and he even saw your pictures, so I hope it includes everything...  He's a retired guy and sort of does it for fun. I have another estimate coming in from someone else, so we'll see.

If you send me your e-mail address I will forward his estimate to you. It's in an excel file.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I sold my horse!!! That means if the city says yes tomorrow, then I am getting my loft!!


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

The city said no, but would allow me to help them rethink it. There are redoing their "dangerous dog" area of the code and would consider redoing the pigeon laws as well.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> The city said no, but would allow me to help them rethink it. There are redoing their "dangerous dog" area of the code and would consider redoing the pigeon laws as well.


Well that's better than just a "no"......end of discussion. Get together as many facts about pigeons as you can and present it to them. Even show them some loft pictures and the plans for what you want to build. Good luck!!


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2008)

so what your saying is you can have a loft/shed but not the pigeons in it right ? If it were me depending on how many pigeons you were planning on keeping I would have never said I was getting pigeons but just asked if I needed a permit to have a shed lol but oh well thats just me  the less they know the better


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I considered that Lokota, but I didn't want to get them only to have to get rid of them. You know if I did get in trouble. I want it legal, so I can confidently keep my birds.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I considered that Lokota, but I didn't want to get them only to have to get rid of them. You know if I did get in trouble. I want it legal, so I can confidently keep my birds.


That's a wise choice. 
We've had quite a few people come on the site AFTER they got pigeons that they KNEW they weren't supposed to have in the first place, wanting to know what they could do because the city/town/county, etc....said they had to get rid of the birds. 
If we all had our way, everyone that wanted to would be able to have birds, but that ain't the way it works, like it or not.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

I am in the same boat :S
after three weeks of research i finally got in touch with someone at city hall that said he had did some research also and it seemed fine i build my loft.
Well....
I went y/day to city hall to drop off the permit application and the same guy is like... OK.... ill pass this on to my boss to see if its ok to build this
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
it was a week ago he told me he was asking his boss that and then he said he had to talk to the city lawyer... he then got back to me and said everything was fine.
What a blower when I went y/day to find out I still have to find out if its ok to build my loft.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I just heard back from the city. They are changing their codes to include pigeons. You can have 2 pigeons without permit and then you can apply for permit if you want more. I'm applying now!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I just heard back from the city. They are changing their codes to include pigeons. You can have 2 pigeons without permit and then you can apply for permit if you want more. I'm applying now!


Good news! Sounds too easy..........get it in writing and sounds like you're set.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

More or less, you have to consider the space. There's a simple formula that says each bird claims about one square foot of space. If you don't want to go that route, then another way to house more birds is to have perches. If plan to have 40 birds, then you should have 45 perches available because they will often fight for perches.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2008)

I think your city needs to do a little more research on the subject of pigeons and what they are used for with the idea of racing and showing ..Two pigeons is more like the amount you would keep in your house not out in a loft if you ask me lol 20-40 is more like a normal number I mean even the feral flocks would seem to have more rights to be there then your own birds


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, I'm getting a permit for more. I hope to get a permit to keep about 50, but with the intentions of keeping 20-30. That way I'll have room to grow. 

As far as space...I am still trying to decide between a custom loft and converting a shed.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Well, I'm getting a permit for more. I hope to get a permit to keep about 50, but with the intentions of keeping 20-30. That way I'll have room to grow.
> 
> As far as space...I am still trying to decide between a custom loft and converting a shed.


converting a shed sounds like that would save some $.....I think your plans sounds great....seems like your on your way! yea


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I would like to get a shed, but getting it into the backyard is the trick. The space between the house is very narrow. We're not sure a pre-built shed will fit.  Which means we may need to have whatever we get built on site. That means it may be the same price to build a coop as to build a shed. If that's the case I think I may just have a coop built. We'll have to see.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I would like to get a shed, but getting it into the backyard is the trick. The space between the house is very narrow. We're not sure a pre-built shed will fit.  Which means we may need to have whatever we get built on site. That means it may be the same price to build a coop as to build a shed. If that's the case I think I may just have a coop built. We'll have to see.



oh tight fit huh....well get the graph paper out....also most call it a loft not a coop....I guess it may depend on where your from though......I have a chicken coop though, and a pigeon loft....lol..


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

LOL. I know... I usually call it a loft, but everyone selling them on craigslist is calling them coops. I get all messed up.

I'm waiting on my permit and then I will get more serious. I wish they'd hurry up!


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