# Hawks and lockdown Need management help



## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

If you stop flying your birds and keep them on lock down will they get weak on the wing?

I am having so much trouble with hawks lately that I lose my younger birds every time I loft fly. They are not strong on the wing and aren't very bright when they get chased. I am really frustrated but feel that if I don't continue flying them the others will never build up the strength to out fly a hawk.

I need some management advice.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Grim said:


> If you stop flying your birds and keep them on lock down will they get weak on the wing?
> 
> I am having so much trouble with hawks lately that I lose my younger birds every time I loft fly. They are not strong on the wing and aren't very bright when they get chased. I am really frustrated but feel that if I don't continue flying them the others will never build up the strength to out fly a hawk.
> 
> I need some management advice.


I'm certainly no expert, since I don't really see that many hawks, but the first thing that comes to mind, is, why at this time of year, would you have "younger" birds? 
If fanciers raise birds all year long, then I don't see any way around the hawk problem. IMO, the best thing to do is raise ALL of your babies (that you intend to fly) during a specific time of year and then quit breeding until the next year.
Most racing fanciers raise babies about 3 months out of the year. Then that's it. That puts all of our youngsters at about the same age. None of this , a few young ones in April and June and July and August, etc...........if you raise babies all the time you can't expect NOT to have a problem. 
Hawks are a problem most all the time, but certain times of the year are worse than others and during those times, you shouldn't have any "young" young birds trying to learn the ropes.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I forgot the other part of your question. I personally lock down my OB's every year after OB season is over. That would be around May/June of each year. I might let them out once in a while for a few more months, but for the most part, they are shut down until around Feb of the next year. They're a little rusty at the beginning but it doesn't take them long to get back into shape. 
The same thing with my YB's. Once YB season is over, which is around Oct/Nov., they are shut down until I start flying the OB's again. 
They would probably be better off flying more during the winter months, but after racing for 8 weeks, and surviving, I see no need to put them out there for the hawks to chase and possibly get one. The only way to get them to trap decently is to keep them hungry, and I see no point in that either if they aren't racing.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

They are by no means squeakers. They are actually older birds probably 3-4 months old now. They are my youngest batch though. I trap trained them but kept them locked up because hawks were so bad. Now when I let them out they are still weak and can't flock fly yet. It is very frustrating.

So as they do there little wobbly flights through the yard thats when the hawk strikes. 

So I am torn between them learning and getting good, or keeping them locked up but them never developing the flying skills properly. I figured since they are maturing they would instinctively pick up on flying a little faster but so far no luck.

I also have only one loft. So I can not separate but I wish I could. I am planning to section it off though so this can be achieved.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

I too am having a hell of a time right now with these damn demons with wings but they arent just hitting my younger birds its any bird they can get the jump on ..Just today while my birds were out they were hit 4 times while trying to return to the loft and Im not talking about as they came in to the landing board Im talking while in full flight ..If I wasnt standing there I would have lost one for sure but as the cooper was dragging it to the ground I ran over and came within 3 feet of punting that demon back to hell  I let my birds out less and less but those hawks never seem to be far off to not notice .. As long as you can get your young birds out and into the actual act of flying around thru the air and then coming back and trapping on their own I wouldnt worry about locking them down now .. its the ones that you cant get out in time that get strong on the wing they are the ones I woud worry about flying later on .. if its possible for you to just build a bigger fly pen for your birds to exercize in it would help them keep in better condition for when they can get back out into the air ...this is something Im hoping to do sometime soon myself since my birds rarely get out anymore from november on til april due to all these evil flying monkeys


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

the thing is you must not really have a problem with hawks if you can fly your birds at any time of day and not have a problem with at least having your birds being hit by a bird of prey .. you can try mixing it up but when the migration starts its a free for all and your birds will be paying the price and the more it gets towards winter the more you will be losing your birds no matter what time you let them out ..people that have birds of prey in their area cant find a cure other then locking their birds up for the season and being this is your first year you have no idea what a hawk problem really is til you have hawks hitting your birds every day you let them out no matter what time of day that is .. advice is only as good as the experiance you incur in a season and from the sounds of it you have no idea of the damage a hawk can do that resides in the immedaite area  My birds get hit on every day that I let them out and you only having been hit 3 times the whole time you have had birds says that you pretty much dont have a problem at all , at least for now  good luck thou, hope you dont have to deal with a real hawk problem like I do here


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Lokota Loft , yes your birds will get weak on the flight muscles if not using them, but that is the "thing: , they can get back flight muscles with exercise again.

And yes I m with Ya .. on the beating the crop out of those Hawcks 

But you know, I got to the thinking ...if they are there...hm .. then they are not over here ....LOL 


seriously I can relate to the problem


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Ups..........I meant that reply to go to GRIM...sorry

Need more coffee and a lot of more "glassess"...LOL


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

i would suggest complete lock down, thats what i'm on. I saw some baby hawks flying around -.- they had babies lol. I'll be flying them next friday though...no school and i'm home the whole day  My uncle gave me some flares... I'm just going to light those when ever there's a hawk in sight, it'll scare it away and they'll be ok.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

I am not really sure these hawks migrate although I have seen peregrines passing through, and yesterday I saw a sharp shinned flying around very small. I think this pair of coopers are regulars (They attack as a pair every time). All this time I was awaiting a bird that was chased relentlessly and I thought for sure he was caught. He kept landing (Very inexperienced, as was the young hawk) and all I could do was distract the hawk. Eventually they flew behind some houses and I thought he was gone for sure. Then that evening I was mowing my lawn and he flew right by but kept going. Hopefully he will show up today.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am so sorry you are having such a bad hawk problem, other then not flying your birds for the time being, you might want to ask God for help-say a prayer, since this seems so hopeless. They are His creatures too, and nothing is hopeless with Him, you just have to ask/pray.

I hope that youngster returns today.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

The subject of hawk's has come up many times, on many different threads. I suggest you review one of the older ones at:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/dealing-with-the-cooper-hawk-9341-7.html?highlight=cooper+hawk

The title of which is Dealing with the Cooper Hawk. 

As a side note, this YB season, I attempted to avoid losses by hawk attacks early in 2008, by keeping my YB's locked down while they got "Strong on the Wing"....my personal experience with this was a much greater loss from fly offs, then I had experienced in actual hawk kills, (that I know of), from the previous five years. It is one of those things where you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. And there are "relative" degrees of "bad hawk problems", one fancier's "bad problem" will be seen by another fancier as very moderate, or not a problem at all. One thing for sure, for many areas of the country, Mister Cooper is going to eat some percentage of your birds, and that is simply a fact of life. 

One of the things I have taken notice to, is that Mister Cooper seems to prefer well fed "fat" YB's from a fanciers loft, then the young "skinny" feral's which live close by. I don't know what this might mean, but I am working on some theories in that regard. One of them is that certain lines within my pigeon's family tree, seem to have been better able to avoid Mister Cooper. These same lines also do quite well during racing events, and thus I have called them the "Blue Falcon" line....will take a number of more generations in order to determine if there is indeed a genetic link between avoiding Mister Cooper and racing ability, or if it has simply been dumb luck.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

My theory on the Hawks is, that they prefer, easiest prey to catch, so they don`t have to loose their energy, chasing some one stronger and faster.

They go after sick ones, and handicap in some manner birds.

Having Crows around is a big help, they alarm every body and their mother about the Hawk in area.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

First on loft flying birds These birds exersise And fly say up to 1.1/2 hours circling the loft routing some. NOW with this the cooper hawk OR any hawk will notice this And move in for a meal. NOW the ferals 1 they often do not fly in large groups for a time . They become less seen in the sky But still get hit. Now on you birds that need to be loft trained. I trapped traine them well Let them out the first 5 or 6 time about 30 min, to a hour befor dark during hawk season. NO birds get hit As I stand watch And the birds are mostly sitting those first few days. Also lock them in an aivery so the can see the sky each day well. NOW when they are ready to take wing You knowq the just make small loops then land. MAKE sure they are really hungry and agin close to dark. Agin less hawk issues. This helps 2 ways. 1 they get loft trained early enough not to have fly aways 2 They are less at risk to be supper. NOW hawks hunt for food YOur birds have to become hawk smart. That means a small number may get hit and you loose those. BUT the others get smart if you use a feed program along with trapping fast. After this you see little loss. But if the birds become sitters they are asking for attacks. And in flight they become swift and smart. Locking them down They do not learn the nature of evade. But if you want zero lost birds you do that. But training has to start and often the hawk is still around. So agin you get hit. In todays worl hawks are greater then anytime in my lifteime. And part of keeping birds that are raced . BIRDS learn fast to fly and trap when they know its not safe to sit any more. Wing stong young birds that have not been loft trained and scatter or just flying out to far you do get some high number lost birds mayber 25 percent verses less then 1 percent to the hawk if you find a traing program that helps the birds exersise and stay safe.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

> you seem to be irritated with my post,sorry if you do not think I have enough experience to let others know how I have been flying my birds. Your right, I don't have alot of experience. I do have commonsense and eyeballs, I was sharing what I do here in VA on PT to be nice. I see hawks 6 out of 8 times I fly, but things seem to happen like, they out fly it, crows chased off a few, they miss alot and I have saved one from the grips of the talons because I chased it off of the bird. So even though I do see hawks and they do attack my birds, I have been lucky and have enough experience to know that. If keeping the birds in is the best advice for YOUR area,then you make that choice. I shared my story from this side of the US so it would be a different experience than yours,....so how many years and dead birds do I need to have to beable to share what MY experience has been???????.???...


 no need to get hostile here , my only point was that yes you havent had your birds even thru one season of what I would call the migration period so you have no idea how bad it will get once winter sets in ..it only gets worse from this point forwards as these coopers are honing their skills to perfection and with hunger pangs and desperation running rampant thru winter they will not stop taking your birds til you either lock them down or they take almost your whole flock one by one .. a pair of coopers will hunt together as I have had it done here to my birds often so thats double your troubles right there .. I have at times had two birds taken down within minutes of each other as my birds were loft flying and in the sky not just sitting on the roof and it was at dusk so end of day, beginning of the day it really matters not to a bird of prey when its hungry...it can happen at anytime of day just more times then not its in the mornings ?? I reside on the same side of the country as you being Im from NJ ..my area is heavily wooded with trees and open farm land too thou I do wish it was more open here then it is for the sake of my birds as these coopers and their snippering skills of ambush are really just getting more clever by the day  take it for whats its worth but if you think you will out smart them think again ... 
thats my 2 cents worth and I will not respond any further on this subject here as I fear to step on any more toes as it seems on any subject here people take it wrong.. good day and good luck fighting the good fight.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

OK kids........chill out............the hawks are out there and there isn't one darn thing you can do about it.
I've been told since 2002 when I flew my very first batch of youngsters how "bad" the hawks were going to be on my birds............(Knock on wood), it's now 2008, 6 years later and I can count on one hand the number of hawks that have taken birds on MY property, in my sight and have a couple of fingers left over.
Some of you obviously have a hawk problem. I know MANY fanciers who do, or at least that what they tell me. You have to do what you have to do to keep your birds from being killed. If that means locking them up, then lock them up. 
I lock mine up and I don't even HAVE a real hawk problem. MAYBE if I DID let my birds out during the winter months, I'd find out just how many hungry hawks there really are out there. 
I watched a cooper hawk chase birds over and over and over last Sunday at a friends house......heck, it made me tired just watching him. He wasn't getting any of those birds though. They were well aware that he was around and escaped quite a few assaults while we stood by and watched. 
Different parts of the country have different hawk issues and arguing about who's got the worst or least problem doesn't get anyone anywhere. 
Just DON'T SEND THEM TO MY HOUSE!!!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Grim, just a thought, your birds are the white release birds (yes) so maybe ? you have a type of bird raised not for fast flight but for staying around more than tripping, just a thought, if you ever get around to having some free time come on over to my place and we can talk and try to figure some things out if you would like!


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I have one thing to say on this subject, I been on open loft all year my birds were born on open loft, as of wright now I have hawks around here, cooper hawks,sparrow hawks,and sharp shinned, witch is the one that attacks from up high. when my birds come out in the morning to fly they walk out the open trap and going like rockets, they don't sit around and wait. They know the hawks are around, They are strong on the wing all year long and very alert at all times.I have not lost a bird to hawks that I know.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

DeeJay actually of all my prisoners the young produced are birds I never lose. I am losing my late batch that were born around 3-4 months ago. I had trap trained them then kept them locked up because hawks were so bad. So now I tried to fly them since they are older and they are still to inexperienced to out fly a hawk. My older birds are little dots in the sky zipping around.

All these birds are from the same parents. I am thinking the lack of flying just did not let them develop their wing strength properly now I am seeing the bad results.


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## SODOVESFORLOVE (Sep 21, 2007)

I always try not to fly in the mornings because the hawks are hungry. I release various times of the day.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

I have tried mornings, afternoons, dusk all are bad. Oh well it is what it is hopefully I breed more next year or I just close shop. We will see


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## SODOVESFORLOVE (Sep 21, 2007)

it may be a good idea not to let the birds out for awhile. it the hawks don't see that there is food around they could move off to another location and not visit your loft as often.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Remeber birds are flying ,a hawk say 5 miles away sees the birds cicling the loft ,It moves in as the birds are still circling. Now the hawk is at your loft area. This is part of what happens lock down or fly. Your birds anytime they fly can be seen by hawks at a distance. Then if you have birds that have flown little And they get spooked they may also fly out to far and get lost. You may think a hawk got them But they may have out run the hawk and just got lost Some of these make it back in a day or two others never do. Birds have to be either locked down or flown It your choice I will still fly but Also look to the skys befor any release.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I live out in farm and woodland country. Out in the boondocks so to speak. I have a Red Tailed hawk pair that "stay" just about a football field distance from my home. One of them attacked my birds on the landing board of my loft when I was just a few feet away, scattering my birds but not succeeding in catching one.

It was the first time to my knowledge that a hawk had attacked my birds. I give my birds open loft year round (thus far). I had previously read that if you put a fake owl (Horned owl or whatever larger owl you can find) plastic figure on a pole or stand, in the general vicinity of your loft, that the hawks will avoid your immediate loft area. But the key is that you have to only put this fake owl figure out when your birds are flying, and not leave it out all of the time. I read this on Hekkenklak.com last year and remembered it. I do not think that it is there anymore.

Nevertheless, I obtained a fake owl and put it out periodically, so that is "seems" to the hawk/s that it is sometimes there but not always there. Maybe this helps in making it seem that it is real. This is not what I had read to do (because of the fact that my birds have free flying (open loft) everyday), I adjusted it a little from the original directions. However, since I have done this, there has not been a problem.

So, my point is that if you are letting your birds out to fly only occasionally, this would diffinitely be worth trying. Get a fake owl and put it on a pole or whatever, in your yard only when your birds are flying. See if it works and let us know. What have you got to lose by trying it?

I don't have that much experience with pigeons yet, but thus far it has worked for me. Good luck.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

conditionfreak, you say you are on open loft, have you raced any races yet?
how was your results, just wondering how you done because I do the open loft thing.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Lovelace: No, I have not. This is my first year back after a 25 year hiatus of not having pigeons. I plan on racing next year. I have thirteen racers now. Started with fifteen and lost two in training. I have had them out to 50 miles several times so far.

I am not sure that I am going to have an open loft during the winter months, for several reasons. I am still considering it though. If I start to lose birds in thw winter, to predators, then they will be closed up often. I prefer the open loft system though. They seem extremely happy with it and in my inexperienced way of thinking, I figure the happier they are with their home, the quicker they will want to get back to it come race day.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Open loft in hawk season is like a drive up window at mcdonalds. The hawks would have an easy meal anytime there hungry. .. Plus would probably enter a loft that is open. Open loft with out hawks might help birds but controled loft helps just as well fly 2 times daily that is 2 to 3 hours flying time. Im sure open loft the birds do not fly any more time then this most often. But what works for some still works.


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

Just have a hawk attact and killed one of my pigeon today. I have my birds locked up for two weeks and today is thier first day out again. just after my birds land on the roof and was trying to drop on the trap board a cooper hawk dive in and pick up one of my pigeon. both of them drop in my front yard so I ran to the front yard to try to save my poor pigeon. but after I scare off the hawk and pick up the poor injured bird. big amount of blood poured out of her body. after about 5 min. my poor injured bird died. the rest of the birds got scared and was flying for about two hours because the hawk was jut sitting on my roof. i trow tennis ball at the hawk to scare him so my birds can trap in. this hawk just don't care and most of the time it's not scared of the tennis ball that i was throwing.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2008)

umm this time of year its very hard to deter hawks from preying on your birds, if they know where a food source is they wont stop coming til they run out of thinbgs to catch and eat :\ if I were you if your having that many problems with this hawk I would keep your birds in til spring but thats just what I would do if you want the killing to stop


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

UPDATE: on my open loft and fake owl situation:

Well. I lost a bird to hawks. I had my fake owl out for what I thought was too long (sometimes you don't do things when you are supposed to), so I put it up and my birds were on open loft. I had done a count of my birds at that time, as they were flying around the loft. I went in the house with the intentions of going back out in a few minutes and putting up my fake owl (which may or may not actually be keeping the hawks away). Anyway, I forgot for about an hour. Then I went out and all of my birds were in the loft with the exception of one white bird. One of my best returning birds on training flights.

It never showed up, so I am assuming that a hawk got it. I now keep my birds locked up except I let them out in the morning for a quick fly around the area, after I check the trees and sky for any hawks, as best as I can. My birds only fly for a few minutes, never going far away, and then I feed them and whistle for them to come in. They do.

Twice over the past week, I have observed two Red Tail Hawks circling very high over my property. There are always black vultures in the sky in this area, but using my military binoculars, I could see that these two birds were red tailed hawks. They were so high in the sky that sometimes I could not see them with the naked eye cut could find them with binoculars.

I will no longer be using the open loft concept. I hate that one of my birds got eaten because of my forgetfullness (may have happened anyway though).

I have thought long and hard what I would do if a hawk got one of my birds in my yard and I was able to catch the hawk in a fishing net. I am a nature lover by heart and would never kill one. But would I attempt to take it far away from its mate? Would it find its way back anyway? Would another just take its place?

Which reminds me of a question I have about training. Do most flyers take their birds out over the winter for training tosses, if they are going to fly old bird races next year?


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

If you really want to fly pigeons, get a few high flyers. Most hawks don't tend to go very high, but some do. But most high flyers are hardly seen. Just tiny specks in the sky. The only time they might get attacked is when they are coming down. A negative on this is, you can't force high flyers to come down. Mine fly for 8-12 hours and they come down on their own. They take a few minutes to get high in the air, but take about an hour slowly coming down. Thats the time they get attacked if ever. So high flyers are a good species to gamble with, but the risk is always there. And easy on the tumblers and rollers. These guys are fun to watch but easy kills for hawks. This time of year everyone should have their tumblers, tipplers, and rollers locked. Any low flying breeds. And just forget about letting those fancy pigeons out for a little stroll. I recommend homers, since they have the speed and power to confuse a hawk. And high flyers since hawks don't tend to get as high as them. Correct me if i'm wrong  still in the learning process. And OMG i want a pair of indian fantails sooo badly


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## j_birds (Sep 8, 2008)

Grim said:


> If you stop flying your birds and keep them on lock down will they get weak on the wing?
> 
> I am having so much trouble with hawks lately that I lose my younger birds every time I loft fly. They are not strong on the wing and aren't very bright when they get chased. I am really frustrated but feel that if I don't continue flying them the others will never build up the strength to out fly a hawk.
> 
> I need some management advice.


I will add my 2 cents worth also. What I have done to fight the hawk problem is: I built a open 10x10 aviary with chicken wire. I have one door large enough for me to use and another door 1'x1' ground level. I put a few 2'x2' cages inside the big one with some of culls in them. I leave the small door open. Hawks go in to try to get the birds. I go out close the small door, 
I go in and net the hawk. put him in a cage, and then relocate him. I rarely ever see a hawk now. I know some people may not have the room to add another aviary to do this, but it works good for me. Also I never lost the first bait bird. Jim


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

j_birds said:


> I will add my 2 cents worth also. What I have done to fight the hawk problem is: I built a open 10x10 aviary with chicken wire. I have one door large enough for me to use and another door 1'x1' ground level. I put a few 2'x2' cages inside the big one with some of culls in them. I leave the small door open. Hawks go in to try to get the birds. I go out close the small door,
> I go in and net the hawk. put him in a cage, and then relocate him. I rarely ever see a hawk now. I know some people may not have the room to add another aviary to do this, but it works good for me. Also I never lost the first bait bird. Jim


That is interesting Jim, I think it is neat you were constructive in dealing with hawks instead of whining and moaning about them...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

j_birds said:


> I will add my 2 cents worth also. What I have done to fight the hawk problem is: I built a open 10x10 aviary with chicken wire. I have one door large enough for me to use and another door 1'x1' ground level. I put a few 2'x2' cages inside the big one with some of culls in them. I leave the small door open. Hawks go in to try to get the birds. I go out close the small door,
> I go in and net the hawk. put him in a cage, and then relocate him. I rarely ever see a hawk now. I know some people may not have the room to add another aviary to do this, but it works good for me. Also I never lost the first bait bird. Jim


Some fellow fanciers tried to get me to do the same thing......use one of my birds as bait in a trap then take the hawk away from here. Sorry, but I can't bring myself to put the bird through that. Even though WE know the hawk can't actually get the bird, the BIRD doesn't know that. 
I know............everyone will say, "it's better to scare a bird than actually have it get killed by the hawk"............it might the lesser of two evils, but I just can't do it. 
I'm just glad I don't have the problems with hawks that most everyone else seems to have. I couldn't deal with it and I'd have to get some other kind of pigeon that doesn't need to fly.


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## j_birds (Sep 8, 2008)

*Hawks need a place to live too*

I just send them (hawks) up your way spirit wings . you must need them worse than i do


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

j_birds said:


> I just send them (hawks) up your way spirit wings . you must need them worse than i do


boo!, but as a friend I would help you find them the perfect place if you needed it..


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## Dovey (Sep 2, 2008)

*Hawks Got One of Mine*

Today, I let my young birds out to fly. My lofts are out in the country on land I own. I went back a few hours later and found a load of feathers and blood about 20 feet from one loft. A hawk was sitting on a power line a few hundred feet away with a smug look. I counted beaks and was only down one. The other seven birds had trapped. I was lucky.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

j_birds said:


> I will add my 2 cents worth also. What I have done to fight the hawk problem is: I built a open 10x10 aviary with chicken wire. I have one door large enough for me to use and another door 1'x1' ground level. I put a few 2'x2' cages inside the big one with some of culls in them. I leave the small door open. Hawks go in to try to get the birds. I go out close the small door,
> I go in and net the hawk. put him in a cage, and then relocate him. I rarely ever see a hawk now. I know some people may not have the room to add another aviary to do this, but it works good for me. Also I never lost the first bait bird. Jim


I hate to rain on your parade here but you do realize you are actually breaking the law by trapping the hawks. I am not saying I blame you, but if you are caught, you will be facing fellony charges just like the guys in California that were arrested not long ago. Trapping is considered harrasment and is put in the same category as killing them under the law. That is the main reason I have just said my prayers every time I let the team out and hope they are fast enough.

Dan


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

AMEN !!!

just my 1 cent ..LOL

Nell


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by j_birds : Hawks need a place to live too


 I think that the pigeons would beg to differ with your opinion there hehe


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by* spirit wings*>That is interesting Jim, I think it is neat you were constructive in dealing with hawks instead of whining and moaning about them...


 I really think this post from you stating that people only whine and moan about losing their beloved pets to hawks is really uncalled for  people dont just whine and moan unless they have a loss involved with a BOP, otherwise Im sure they wouldnt have a problem with them at all .


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> I really think this post from you stating that people only whine and moan about losing their beloved pets to hawks is really uncalled for  people dont just whine and moan unless they have a loss involved with a BOP, otherwise Im sure they wouldnt have a problem with them at all .


I was talking of being constructive....doom amd gloom is not. and I would appreciate that you don't single out and quote my post anymore, Im starting to feel harassed. Thank You.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

learning said:


> I hate to rain on your parade here but you do realize you are actually breaking the law by trapping the hawks. I am not saying I blame you, but if you are caught, you will be facing fellony charges just like the guys in California that were arrested not long ago. Trapping is considered harrasment and is put in the same category as killing them under the law. That is the main reason I have just said my prayers every time I let the team out and hope they are fast enough.
> 
> Dan


not if you get a permit. but yes the birds would get the baageezies scared out of them...www.racingbirds.com/hawktrap.html


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I don't think it is fair to use a pigeon as bait either, they suffer tremendous amount of stress knowing they are in a dangerous situation. 

Hawks are one of God's creatures, and have every right to co-exist with all birds. That doesn't mean we should just stand by and let them pick our birds, one at a time. It means you need to be responsible for your birds, and realize you are taking a risk, each and every time they fly outside. It is YOUR decision to allow them to fly and put them at risk. IF you are flying your pet birds and lose them, shame on you, you should know better then to take that risk, and if you lose one...you only have yourself to blame.

I think we need to be pro-active when flying our birds and dealing with hawks, and take the responsiblity.

1. NEVER let them fly outside when you are not out there with them, that in itself makes your birds an easy target.

There is alot you can do to scare the hawks away, if you are there watching your birds fly. First if you know the hawks are hanging around, don't let your birds out. IF you see a hawk, call your birds inside. IF one bird gets caught you can chase the hawk down to where he drops the bird, and even rescue your bird, I have done it several times.

2. TRAIN YOUR BIRDS WELL. Teach them to drop thru their trap immediately when they are done flying, make sure they know well the sound that calls them to breakfast. They have an escape, if they know the security of their loft, and can respond to good training rather then panic.

3. DON'T fly them IF you know there is a hawk hanging around. 

4. Make sure they are in optimum health, so their senses and flying skills are at maximum capacity, that way they can outfly a hawk if necessary.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> and I would appreciate that you don't single out and quote my post anymore, Im starting to feel harassed. Thank You.


its funny that you would say that  I will keep that in mind


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I think we, as humans, invented this hawk problem. We used DDT, and then we realized it is not good for the hawk and so we let them breed through conservation effort. Now they might have become prolific and so we suffer from that consequence. I've read that hawks are now adapting to suburban life in that they are now nesting on eucalyptus tree which they haven't done since the very beginning of their existence. 

I think that our pigeons getting hit by them is a symptom that government is not taking into consideration in their conservation calculation.

I hate being on a lock down almost every time now. I just finished lock down last week and when I released my birds yesterday a hawk came again scaring my birds. It is another lock down. This has been going on since January. I felt like a prisoner now. I thought this hobby was fun, but it gave me more anxiety than I can think off. I can't blame hawk loving San Diego. We have nice weather here.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah it annoys me sometimes. I've been on lockdown for a little more than a month now. Rollers are outta shape  lol homers look lazy....those tumblers look like the tumbled out of the wrong side of the nest in the morning. I might release em on Tuesday. Home the whole day, Remembrance day holiday 


PS. I got cauliflower ear!!!!  some people hate it but i like it. It hurts but now people can tell from far away that i wrestle. Plus if you go to India, and show them you're cauliflower ear, its a sign of great respect, wrestlers are like worshiped in India, so if you show them your cauliflower ear, you don't need to pay money for a bus ride lol.


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## santhosh_pigeons (May 29, 2002)

I am on lockdown from late october to late november......its prime breeding season for the hawks......no flying absolutely......if you fly a bird at dusk or dawn it will be gone for sure...... i clip the birds feathers this time of the year and only breed them....... pigeons....flying breeds do need regular flying or they will lose their charm and get lazy.... its hard for me now but will be back flying in 20 days .......got to learn to live with the problem.....
for me right now the main problem is not hawks but pigeon theives.....locks and electric fences and trip alarms are no match for the pigeon theives..........my baseball bat should help


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