# I am absolutely heart broken



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I don't know what's wrong with Moody, but he is not himself anymore. Health-wise, he is just the same but I think he's crazy. Not just hard to deal with, but I literally think his brain is not normal. He has quick, jerky movements, and is extremely obsessive compulsive. He is extremely scared of almost everything and very very aggressive, randomly. He is no longer responsive to my voice, and he won't even let me touch him. When I have to change his diaper, I have to have another person help me restrain him, by pushing his neck down and pushing down on his back, or he jumps up and runs away, over and over again. I really want to be gentle but he won't let me, and his diaper has to be changed quite a few times a day.


I am absolutely heart broken. This boy has been so important to me and we've run into problem after problem and I really don't know what to do. He's always been a bit "funny" since he was a baby, he had diarrhea from day 1, ate ferociously, and was unusually repetitive with the things he did, and he was never very affectionate, he didn't even follow me around like the other babies did. He's just gotten worse and worse. I don't think he's the same goose anymore.


Also, I'm really worried about PDD being in my house.
For any people that don't know about PDD:

http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/pdd.htm

I was reading and found out that PDD is very possible in geese, as they found it in the crops of some dead geese... And I am really getting worried now. My friend's budgerigar had many symptoms of PDD and lasted about a year after the symptoms occurred before she suddenly died. The bird had a very crazy appetite but was losing weight, and had neurological problems too, such as wobbliness and bad balance.

I handled the bird quite a bit, but of course had no idea that PDD was possible, as the vet had no idea what it was; the tests were clean. I did not wash my hands much and I fear it may have been tracked into my house hold.


Now I'm worried about both my pigeon, Muffin AND my goose, Moody. Muffin's fecal samples are clean (we're trying to get another one) and she is CONSTANTLY eating and drinking but she is SO underweight, her keel bone is like a knife. She is very wobbly and shaky but it varies from day to day, just like PDD tends to... also, I've witnessed her vomiting and her poop often has undigested seeds in it.

Moody is exhibiting some of these signs too... For one, some days Moody has had these weird "episodes" that involve a lot of twitching of the head/neck, Moody is also very wobbly and his neck is always swaying back and forth. I've heard PDD causes feather problems and Moody's feathers are not even waterproof though he is now getting lots of vitamin A and flax seed oil, and even more vegetables... His diarrhea is constant and there are pieces of undigested food even when he eats his grit. if he eats lettuce, big pieces of lettuce are found; he can't eat grains without them being undigested in the poop and once I fed him oats and they were WHOLE, every single one of them, in the poop.

He eats CRAZILY but is way underweight for his breed of goose.
More fecal tests, come back clean. He's had this all his life; for almost a year.


It is only getting worse.


And I am so afraid that I unwillingly brought this terrible disease in my house.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

"Your veterinarian will be looking for signs of weight loss despite normal or excessive appetite, the passage of undigested food, vomiting, feather loss, abdominal distention, and impaction of the crop. The doctor will also look for neurological signs such as erratic and unusual head movements, spasms and seizures, lack of balance/excessive falling, and unusual apathy or sleepiness."

This is what Moody has of those:
Weight loss despite normal or excessive appetite
The passage of undigested food
Feather loss
Unusual head movements
Lack of balance/excessive falling

This is what the budgie had:
Weight loss despite excessive appetite (she ate all the time, and only lost weight)
Vomiting
Abdominal Distention
Lack of balance
Sometimes unusual apathy or sleepiness

Muffin has these:
Weight loss despite excessive appetite (eats all the time, only loses weight)
Lack of balance (but she also shakes a lot, she quivers and trembles)
Vomiting
Passage of undigested food


The most common clinical signs of PDD include depression, _weight loss (with or without decreased appetite), constant or intermittent regurgitation, and/or passage of undigested food in the feces indicating a malabsorptive or maldigestive disorder.- _Dr Branson W. Ritchie, 2000 AAV presentation

The budgie did not so much vomit as it did regurgitate almost constantly, not in an affectionate way either.

Proventricular impaction, muscle atrophy, _abdominal enlargement, lethargy, weakness,_ polyuria, _diarrhea_, scant feces or hypotension have also been reported in some birds. When the central nervous system is involved, signs may include ataxia (bird may fall from the perch), abnormal head movements or seizures. Some affected birds may develop central nervous system signs in the absence of gastrointestinal abnormalities.

The budgie actually had fluid in the abdomen and it began to get worse and worse, despite frequent vet visits (it was getting to at least 2 each week) to drain the fluid; each time there was no bacteria found, fecal samples were taken, everything was tried and everything failed. The budgie also had diarrhea and was very weak.
Of course, Moody has diarrhea.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Have you suggested to your vet to test Moody for PDD?

Reti


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

No, I haven't. I'm going to take him in and suggest this.
But our vet is not a certified avian vet and I'm not sure if she's ever tested for PDD. Also, they test in the crop and there may be nothing that shows up, even in a healthy bird.  

I want to get Muffin tested, too.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You could be right and I feel you are making yourself crazy trying to figure it all out. I'm really sad for you because I can feel how much you are hurting and I know how important Moody is to you. I really hope that someday you will become an avian vet. We will sure be able to use your help. I know that you will never give up until you figure out what's the problem. 
I could be wrong, but in this case, my gut tells me that Moody wants a mate, would rather not be a house goose and that he's very frustrated. I think he doesn't like wearing his diaper and keeps trying to tell you. You are like his momma and he's trying to separate from you and have his own life. That's what babies do...they grow up and separate from their parents.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

All I know about geese is that the phrase "loose as a goose" is supposed to be an accurate description of their poops , but Charis' suggestion sounds a good possibility. How long is it since you introduced Moody to the diaper?

I remember putting a collar with a bell on it on my cat, I had to take it off after he spent all day panicking , running away and hiding from the ringing sound in cupboards only to burst out suddenly when he thought the bell wasn't watching.

I hope that both Muffin and Moody make a full recovery from whatever is affecting them, and soon.

Cynthia


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Thank you, everyone. Yes, I think Moody wants a mate, and to be a free goose outside. He's not wild and wouldn't be able to live his life like a wild goose but I know he wants to follow his instincts and be a goose. I introduced him to the diaper a few days after he was born, but it was one of those on/off things because he always had pretty bad, smelly diarrhea. I raised 3 ducklings and another gosling with Moody, who are in a hobby farm with other geese, and their poop was never bad like Moody's. Moody eats and drinks excessively but remains really low in weight; about 15 pounds, when an embden gander should be about 20+.

I know many people who have very well-adjusted house geese but Moody is just not that kind of goose. He's his own goose. I think being in a house is really getting to him. We've had a harsh winter and I couldn't bring him outside as much as I would have liked. But I think it's time to let him be a goose.

We have a possible home, but it's in the US. Terry is working with the Duck Rescue Network to figure out how to get the needed paperwork to get him shipped to the US. The home in North Carolina would be absolutely great and is very ideal for him. My only worry is that he may have PDD--if not a genetic disorder, which is possible--and I wouldn't want him infecting another flock.

I guess since he was a few days old, he's been different than the other geese. He's had digestion and behavior problems from day 1, and now my little Muffin is also worrying me sick. 


I'm going to have a talk with my vet about any possibilities or tests that can be done on the both of them. The thing about PDD is it can hide in a bird for up to 8 years, or appear right away and kill them swiftly. I really, really hope it's not PDD.



Thank you for your kind words.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm really sorry to hear all this. I think if Moody could be without the diapers, that would help him. Since it must be so stressful (to both of you!!) to change the diapers, that must make it worse for him mentally. Is there any room he can be in with newspaper on the floor and no diaper? Or any way to set up a covered, outdoor area for him until he's able to come to the US? Just throwing ideas out. I hope he feels better and that the other birds don't have PDD. I'm sorry you're going through all of this.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry about Moody's troubles, Vasp. I know how much you love him. I had never hear of PDD before, but I guess it's possible. My goose book (I used to have pet geese, too) doesn't mention it, but there are new diseases out there. The weight is low for an Emden. This _is _goose breeding season and that could contribute to his unfriendly behavior. My Romeo became very aggressive in the spring, but he did have a mate. I'm not sure how he would have behaved if he'd been an "only" goose. Even in the spring he was gentle with me, but he would bite everyone else in the family. 

I hope your vet can figure out what is going on with Moody.


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## BirdDust (Feb 8, 2008)

A goose is a flock bird. Without being a part of a pecking order it doesn't probably know how to behave. Now add to that hormones and you can have a badly behaved goose. Not your fault...that's just the way they are. The nicest geese I ever had were the ones I never made pets of. They can be a very aggressive, dominant bird and need a different type of handling. A livestock vet might be a better source in helping you with your goose. In the meantime some diseases that I can recall that do affect geese are botulism, coccidiosis, fowl cholera, hardware disease, staphylococcus, streptococcosis, worms, and pullorum-typhoid. Worms are not usually a threat to waterfowl, but sometimes they can get them. Can the bird be lonely which causes it to be ill-tempered and have poor weight? Sure. Will it cause it to pass undigested food? Don't think so. It could have an internal defect, or was infected at the time of hatch with something which is affecting the bird that is being missed. I'm sorry I don't have any more ideas to help you. I would say a state Department of Agriculture would be the highest source of information on waterfowl diseases and diagnosis.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You know, Vasp .. I think BirdDust is onto something here .. try your local agriculture resources and see what's available. We have some wonderful labs and stuff here in So. Cal. .. not many know of them, but they are either free or reasonable for tests.

Terry


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I'm starting to doubt Moody has PDD because the day after he was born, he had digestive issues, before he even had contact with our bird (who could have had anything). He had very loud, popping noises after eating grass, which, other goose owners tell me, is not normal at all. The diarrhea was present from poop #1 (gosh, I wonder which one I'm at now? ). He also makes loud sounds with his vent. Squishy, odd sounds, especially when he's nervous. As for my lovely little Muffin... Well, we have to get her to a better vet, don't we? 

I'm going to see if there are any livestock/poultry vets in the area for Moody. I think I may have seen some.


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