# Pigeon laying on it's back



## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

A girl brought me an adult pigeon on Monday. Her mom found the pigeon along side the road, apparently not able to fly. They took the pigeon home, put it in a cage when the following day their cat opened the cage and attacked the pigeon.  He / she has what seems to be minor damage by the cat under one wing, and seems to have some balance issues but other than that looks really beautiful. He is very, very skinny though. I put the bird on antibiotics gave it a variety of seed and fresh water and hoped for the best. Tuesday morning I was going to give the pigeon his meds and when I looked in the carrier he was lying on his back with his feet sticking up in the air. I was very sad but went to go get my shoes on so I could lay him to rest. I came back into the room, heard a shuffling noise and to my amazement the pigeon was standing in the back of the carrier ?? I have seen the bird doing this several more times since that first day and once just a minute ago. The pigeon has gained some weight (only 4 grams but at least has gained something) and seems to be more alert and stable. That is why I was so surprised to see him laying on his back again. This time he made no attempts to get up and I had to right him, myself. Has anyone ever seen this before? Is there anything else I can do for him? Thanks, Lisa


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

No, I've never seen a pigeon lie on its back before. What type of antibiotics are you giving him? Cats can carry a bacteria in their mouhts that is fatal to birds, even though the wounds may be superficial. The antibiotic of choice for cat-caught birds is Augmentin, also called Clavamox. 

The thinness, balance issues and inablity to fly indicate illness. What are his droppings like? It could be Salmonellosis/Paratyphoid or PMV (Paramyxovirus). Or it could be a combination of things. Your best bet is to have him seen by an avian vet. In what part of California are you located?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Has anyone ever seen this before?


YES!!!! 

This is what my pigeon Rupert did when he was rescued by A Wing and A Prayer. He had PMV but is okay now, able to fly and with a prime nesting site and pretty mate
.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12849&referrerid=560

Birdmom is right about his needing antibiotics but if you take him to an avian vet please don't let him be put down, they *do* recover, but vets have so little experience of PMV they tend to classify it as Newcastles disease and destroy the poor victims unnecessarily

THis is a link to a thread on PMV..

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12250&referrerid=0

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhh...PPMV could throw them off such as that...as can some llness or also starvaton/dehydraton...starved Pgeons need some tme for ther system to be be functonng fully agan...what are the poops appearance and number?----- see about 'yellow' small lumps located back throat, mght be Trchomona llness...too, count the poops for to tell food amounts eaten...llness can reduce appette...Phl, Las Vegas


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm about 90 miles north of Sacramento. Unfortunately, there is not an avian vet in my immediate area. There is one that is about 40 miles from here but I won't be able to get there until next week.

When I first got him his droppings were dark green, now they are more dark brown/black with a few green ones here and there. He is pooping quite a bit. Should I count the actual number over the course of a day? 

His mouth looks good - no obvious signs of trich. 

I am giving him Baytril - that is what I have on hand. 

I am keeping him in the house in a large cat/small dog kennel cab. Is that acceptable?

Is there anything special I should feed him?

I'm off to read the links that you guys gave me. Thanks.
Lisa


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Cynthia has rehabbed many PMV pigeons and is the best one to give you advice in that area. 

If the pigeon is pooping a lot that's a good sign that he is eating enough. You want to see about 20 droppings a day. Pigeon mix is good and if you can give him extra safflower seed that would be helpful as it's high in fat and protein and pigeons love it. I've also had good results feeding sick pigeons on small seed treat mixes sold at pet stores for canaries and finches or patio mix for wild birds that contains sunflower chips. Look for something with a protein content of 15% or better. 

Baytril is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic and the drug of choice for treating paratyphoid, though his symptoms actually sound more like PMV. Baytril should protect him against secondary infections. I'm _not_ sure, and hopefully someone else will come along who knows, if Baytril is adequate protection against infection from cat bites and scratches, but it is a "big gun," so I hope so. 

My other concern would be coccidiosis, a parasite nearly always present that can cause illness when the bird is stressed by something else. If there is a feed store in your area they should sell medication for treating trich and coccidiosis.


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks! The finch/canary mixes and safflower seed is exactly what I've been feeding him  along with some poultry pellets that I feed my chickens.

He is having 20 poops a day for sure and they are well formed. 

I have succesfully used Baytril in the past to treat cat caught birds. I have been treating him since Monday.

I have him in a room seperate from my other birds (starling) and practice good hygene. Do you think they could be at risk?? I could keep the pigeon in the tack room in the barn if it would be safer for my other birds.

I actually have medicine to treat trich. It is effective for the coccidiosis too? And should I treat him for it as a precautionary measure?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Baytril (Enrofloxacin) is not usually sufficient for cat bites, can you get some amoxycillin and give a combination? (check in for the dose!)

I have copied this verbatim from the Avian Wound Management bit of www.worldwounds.com because it explains how to deal with cat bites so well:


_*Caught-by-cat flesh wounds*
Cat bites may range from tiny puncture wounds to lacerations. The muscle underneath a puncture wound may be lacerated due to the action of the teeth in immobile muscle (relative to the skin). Many wounds cannot be detected with the naked eye and the need for antibiotics may not be recognised in cases where there is no evidence of a puncture wound or scratch [18]. Septicaemia is a common sequel to a cat bite, while other routes of infection have also been suggested. Birds may ingest organisms from cat saliva-coated feathers during preening leading to gastrointestinal disease and septicaemia [18]. Cats carry Pasteurella multocida on their gingival tissue and teeth and antibiotics are therefore always indicated in any bird attacked by a cat [19], [20]. In addition to Pasteurella spp, a mixed aerobic/anaerobic population has been recovered from the majority of cat bite wounds [18]. Selecting the right antibiotic (or antibiotic combination) is therefore of vital importance. Penicillins have been cited as the antibiotic of choice due to their efficacy against P. multocida [20] and their broad spectrum of action.* Fluoroquinolones, such as the much-favoured enrofloxacin (Baytril) should not be used on their own as they lack action against anaerobes and provide incomplete coverage against Streptococci spp. For infected bites clavulanate-amoxycillin or combination therapy with penicillin, or clindamycin, and a fluoroquinolone is recommended.* Ideally culture and sensitivity testing should be performed, but this will often be impossible for time and cost reasons. 

Bite wounds should be aggressively cleaned and flushed with saline or 0.05% chlorhexidine [20]. Flushing may need to be repeated. Puncture wounds can be left open to drain but lacerations should be dressed to protect the underlying tissues. Some puncture wounds may need to be opened up to facilitate access to the underlying traumatised tissues. 

Where the pectoral muscles have been lacerated, aggressive cleaning and debridement is indicated under general anaesthesia. Torn, necrotic muscle should be removed and the wound packed with a hydrogel. A hydrocolloid dressing (eg Duoderm Extra Thin) can be applied over the wounds to provide additional protection. The wounds should be reassessed after 24 to 48 hours and a decision made as to whether wound closure is appropriate (Figure 15 to Figure 18). _


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks for that great information! I guess I'd better add Clavamox to my medicine cabinet!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

As long as he's in a separate room, I don't think your other birds are at risk. It sounds as though you are knowledgeable about quarantine procedures and I'm sure you wash your hands thoroughly in between caring for your different pets. Most diseases pigeons may have are risky only to other pigeons and doves. Ornithosis would be an exception, but his symptoms don't sound anything like that. 

It would be a good to treat him for canker and trich as a precaution. I treat my pigeons for those things every three or four months because you never completely get rid of the organisms, you just try to keep them under control. A bird stressed by another illness is likely to develop a problem with trich and/or cocci. There are some good meds for both available from the pigeon supply houses. One of my favorites is Global's Multi-mix for canker, cocci and worms. 

Try Global Pigeon Supply or Foy's Pigeon Supply.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Just a final word on quarantine and isolation: Please everyone treat every injured pigeon that you take in as if he has PMV for the first two weeks at least whether or not he shows symptoms of illness.

Of the 4 injured pigeons that I have taken in as rescues recently two that were showing no signs of sickness on arrival developed the nervous symptoms of PMV after a week. And I know that they didn't catch it here because it was recognised in another pigeon that remained in the flock on the same day my pigeon developed symptoms. Another rescuer took that one.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Very GOOD point Cynthia, since birds that are sick usually aren't able to get away as quickly as a healthy bird, they would be most likely to get caught by a cat or other predator.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Just wondering, what are you plans for him in the future? You said you have chickens, so why not add a pigeon to your collection?? I found once you help out a bird in need, becomes a great pet indeed.  (Woah, just thought of that, thats pretty cool, huh?)


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the great advice!! I am going to check out the pigeon supply stores and get the suggested meds. 

The pigeon seems to be doing good and is gaining a bit of weight. He is up to 212 g from 204. 

My plans for the pigeon were to release him once he was well enough. I do have a 2 year old pet pigeon who lives in the garage (much to my husbands dismay) and hangs out with the chickens. So if this pigeon decided to stay it might convince the hubby to build the pigeon loft I've been asking for


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is best not to release pigeons that have suffered from PMV. They don't remain infectious or become infectious, but under stress their nervous symptoms can return and even if there is only a slight effect it will make them more vulnerable to traffic and predators.

I built my first aviary for a PMV rescue.

Cynthia


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm glad to hear he's gained some weight and seems to be doing better. It sounds to me like you need a pigeon loft!  That's how I got started in pigeons this time around...I rescued a lost roller from the street in front of our house. Two years and 27 pigeons later I had my pigeon loft. Ironically, I'd seen pigeons at the fair a few years before all that happened and suggested getting some pigeons and my husband said "no way." But when one landed on our doorstep he gave in. So maybe your husband will come around.


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm working on him  
Another question. At what point should I put this pigeon in an outdoor aviary or cage? I feel bad for him - he's been stuck in that little carrier for over a week now. Would he benefit from some fresh air and sunlight or is it best to keep him confined ?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If he has PMV then he will be shedding the virus, and a danger to other pigeons, for 6 weeks. The virus can also cause a mild infection in poultry.

I keep them indoors but let them fly about a bedroom for excercise. I have one at the moment that I have had for just over 5 weeks, but he didn't show the symptoms until a week after that, so I will keep him isolated a bit longer. Better to be safe than sorry!

Cynthia


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Pigeons dearly love sun. Is there a place in your house where he can get some sun from an open window? I use a small animal cage as a "hospital cage." I place it so they have some shade if they want to get out of the sun, but part of the cage is in full sun. Even sick pigeons enjoy sunbathing.


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## abbybr (Jul 9, 2006)

I have a nice outdoor cage that has shade at all times and has partial in the sun part of the day. I thought I would fashion a "fence" around it so the chickens can't get near him and put him out there during the day but still bring him in at night. Does that sound reasonable or would I be endangering other birds by doing this? If so, I will have to let him out in my guest bedroom, which I really didn't want to do - the only bird poo free room in my house  I do songbird rehab for the local wildlife rehab group and have two baby mockingbirds in my bird room at this time and don't want to expose them to the pidge.


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