# training toss



## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

yesterday went and took 30 obs 30 miles only got 7 back is this normal these my mates as well


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## racer123 (Mar 3, 2009)

no but your birds are the best one of the ones i got from you are 3rd in club and ajmes have you had a blue bar hen 07 band back so got out on friday
thanks


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

How far was your training toss? Is this your first toss?
I started my birds out from across the highway, less than a mile from home, then I went one mile, then three, etc... Not all birds that do not make are bad homers, some are lost to hawks and probably other things.
I always like to start with my young birds. I take them out and put them on a platform in the yard an will let them stay there for a few hours. (As soon as they are feathered and able to eat by themselves, they go to the platform.) I have food and water on the platform for them and I think this helps with them getting used to me handling them, they also get to see the lay of the land and when they feel up to it, they can fly back to the loft.
So I guess they actually get their first training toss at only a few yards from home. I have not had homers in years and trying to remember everything I was taught is tough. I wonder if anyone else does this also?


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

UncleBuck said:


> How far was your training toss? Is this your first toss?
> I started my birds out from across the highway, less than a mile from home, then I went one mile, then three, etc... Not all birds that do not make are bad homers, some are lost to hawks and probably other things.
> I always like to start with my young birds. I take them out and put them on a platform in the yard an will let them stay there for a few hours. (As soon as they are feathered and able to eat by themselves, they go to the platform.) I have food and water on the platform for them and I think this helps with them getting used to me handling them, they also get to see the lay of the land and when they feel up to it, they can fly back to the loft.
> So I guess they actually get their first training toss at only a few yards from home. I have not had homers in years and trying to remember everything I was taught is tough. I wonder if anyone else does this also?


it was there 10th toss i started at i mile and worked my way up to 30 i had not lost one intill the second 30 miles toss this is what i was wonder can you lose that many at one time?


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

racer123 said:


> no but your birds are the best one of the ones i got from you are 3rd in club and ajmes have you had a blue bar hen 07 band back so got out on friday
> thanks


nice to now about the 3rd in club and no i have not seen that blue bar hen but will look out for it


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

james fillbrook said:


> it was there 10th toss i started at i mile and worked my way up to 30 i had not lost one intill the second 30 miles toss this is what i was wonder can you lose that many at one time?


These are OLD BIRDS?


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

Lovebirds said:


> These are OLD BIRDS?


yep going four years been training at 30 miles 2 time but they have been flying free all there life and were born here


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Must be something in the air............if you read my post about the race yesterday, you know what I mean. Just chatting with another guy who let his birds out yesterday and a couple of them just took off and haven't returned. Birds that had been flying for a couple of years. Doesn't make any sense at all to me..............


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

Lovebirds said:


> Must be something in the air............if you read my post about the race yesterday, you know what I mean. Just chatting with another guy who let his birds out yesterday and a couple of them just took off and haven't returned. *Birds that had been flying for a couple of years. Doesn't make any sense at all to me..............*


*
*
thats what i mean i have never loft a bird when flying and all the sudden 23 gone missing it sounds to odd to me


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, SOMEONE will come along in a little while and tell us that it's something that WE are doing wrong............whatever...........
I know a few years ago I had 4 yearlings that had flown the whole YB season, just take off one day, never to be seen again. You loose them to hawks, wires, during training and races and sometimes a new YB will take off and not come back, but WHY would a bird (no, not A bird, *4* birds) just take off and never come back? The loft wasn't overcroweded. Hell, I even had boxes that had NO birds........PLENTY of room..............beats the heck outta me.


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## lostflight (Aug 18, 2008)

maybe they wanted to be FREE!!!! I had a young male that knows home but would never trap. When the other birds are flying he'd join them but never come down with them he would leave. He did that for a couple of months than I never saw him again. At first I thought it was a hawk coming for my birds. LOL I was like ***********************. LOL

I figured he may have left with the wild ones that I've seen flying around, that may just be the case with yours.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry for your losses.... Some times it only takes a Low pressure front, or a high pressure front to Really mess them up. My worst toss was one from work, only about 6 miles... AFTER they had been out two sixty three or four times, that year. Let them out as normal about 1/2 mile from work, got out of the car at work and i KNEW i had screwed up! I could feel the temp had dropped way down and my ears were popping. As far as i am concerned, i would rather have them fly in rain than when the air Pressure changes rapidly. 
These were old birds, never Raced but had been out over 3 or 4 years to about 250 miles out all those years in all directions except east.
Before i even thought about racing all i wanted was "always get home Homers" and that is what that team was.I think, JMHO, Sometimes they hit a wall of sudden air pressure change and refuse to fly though it and in trying to go around it end up in another state, or country for that matter and burn out.
Of the 30 i released that day i only got i think it was about 4 back.... over a period of about a week.Remember, these Birds were trained to HOME not to race my whole training was that they just get Home, and they had done that for years without fail, EVEN in rain storms. I believe it is Air Pressure changes are your worst enemy.THEN there are what i call dead zones, remember before i raced my whole Sport was training, i had one area about 15 miles from home a Quarry with high voltage lines and LOTS of Sat towers.This spot was in the direct route on the flight home from the West, When they were Young i would follow them home as best i could, and they would hang up at that spot most every time, circle and go off course around it once they had hit it a time or two. as old Birds when i tossed from the west, they did not slow down but veered off right before it, retook their line of Flight and continued home. i had watched this Behavior almost daily back then. And when i started Racing/training young birds i tried at first to take them north or south hoping to keep that area out of line until they had more training...JMHO Dave


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> Sorry for your losses.... Some times it only takes a Low pressure front, or a high pressure front to Really mess them up. My worst toss was one from work, only about 6 miles... AFTER they had been out two sixty three or four times, that year. Let them out as normal about 1/2 mile from work, got out of the car at work and i KNEW i had screwed up! I could feel the temp had dropped way down and my ears were popping. As far as i am concerned, i would rather have them fly in rain than when the air Pressure changes rapidly.
> These were old birds, never Raced but had been out over 3 or 4 years to about 250 miles out all those years in all directions except east.
> Before i even thought about racing all i wanted was "always get home Homers" and that is what that team was.I think, JMHO, Sometimes they hit a wall of sudden air pressure change and refuse to fly though it and in trying to go around it end up in another state, or country for that matter and burn out.
> Of the 30 i released that day i only got i think it was about 4 back.... over a period of about a week.Remember, these Birds were trained to HOME not to race my whole training was that they just get Home, and they had done that for years without fail, EVEN in rain storms. I believe it is Air Pressure changes are your worst enemy.THEN there are what i call dead zones, remember before i raced my whole Sport was training, i had one area about 15 miles from home a Quarry with high voltage lines and LOTS of Sat towers.This spot was in the direct route on the flight home from the West, When they were Young i would follow them home as best i could, and they would hang up at that spot most every time, circle and go off course around it once they had hit it a time or two. as old Birds when i tossed from the west, they did not slow down but veered off right before it, retook their line of Flight and continued home. i had watched this Behavior almost daily back then. And when i started Racing/training young birds i tried at first to take them north or south hoping to keep that area out of line until they had more training...JMHO Dave


thanks for the reply


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

There could be a health issue....Pigeons that are not healthy will not home well...Also,if the K-Factor(Sun Spot) activity is high,that could hamper returns...Also pigeons not in good condition,will not home well...You just can`t take pigeons,out of your loft,after being locked up all winter, and take them 30 miles for a toss...They need to loft fly for a few weeks to get in some kind of flying shape,before you start training down the road...I don`t know what you have done with the birds the last month or so...Maybe you can fill us in about what the birds have been doing the last 30 days....Alamo


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

Alamo said:


> There could be a health issue....Pigeons that are not healthy will not home well...Also,if the K-Factor(Sun Spot) activity is high,that could hamper returns...Also pigeons not in good condition,will not home well...You just can`t take pigeons,out of your loft,after being locked up all winter, and take them 30 miles for a toss...They need to loft fly for a few weeks to get in some kind of flying shape,before you start training down the road...I don`t know what you have done with the birds the last month or so...Maybe you can fill us in about what the birds have been doing the last 30 days....Alamo


trust me i checked all that and done it like loft fly for a few weeks


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

james fillbrook said:


> yesterday went and took 30 obs 30 miles only got 7 back is this normal these my mates as well


 Depends on what you mean by the term "normal". 

I would say that IMO, this does not bode well for your OB race season. Since we really don't know why or how our pigeons return to a home loft in the first place, then it really sort of makes it difficult to explain why pigeons sometimes fail to make it home from a short training toss. If we ask 100 people on this site, you may very well get 100 different answers, which are really just a guess.

I can't really offer any better possible explanation then some which have already been offered. Sorry....


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I took 9, 2008 banded birds, forty miles for a training toss on Friday. One of which was a barless whose father was a 300 mile winner. The mother carried the barless gene but was not barless and didn't do much in competition.

I let them go in Ripley, Ohio, which is right on the Ohio river and they had to go over all country farm areas, and large wooded hills. Lots of hawks on the river area and all the way also, I assume. These birds (except for the barless) had been released there before

I got six together in good time. Two later together. The barless hasn't come home yet.

I don't expect her. I believe I pushed her too fast. She had only been out about 12 miles previously but being released with the flock gave me reason to assume she would do okay.

That's one of the things about breeding. You lose birds from certain pairings and one may assume that the breeder pairings were just not a good match and then you try those two birds onto other birds.

But, the ones that never came home could have been really good birds, but got hawk caught. Or you made a mistake of your own and it wasn't the birds fault.

You can't just try one pairing up of birds and go by those results. It's a numbers game, this pigeon sport.

A little off topic, but not really.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Wait, did you say these birds were 4 years old and have only been tossed 10 times? Or did you mean only 10 times this year?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Some of them should be back the next day. It is one of those mysterious thing. It could be some predators that scatters them, for example, etc. There are many reasons. Obviously those that returned are probably your best ones.


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wait, did you say these birds were 4 years old and have only been tossed 10 times? Or did you mean only 10 times this year?


yes 10 times this year they must of done it over 200 times lol


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

ah and these birds have been from france and had all back and from scotland me being south of england its quite away


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I don`t have all the answers on why racing pigeons don`t home well,or get lost on training tosses...In all the years I have been flying pigeons,I could count on one hand,how many OLD birds I have lost on training tosses....NONE....I don`t have the best racing pigeons in the USA,I don`t even come close to having the best in my area...But I do not lose OB`s on training tosses...There IS a reason why !!..........Here`s some !!!
POOR MANAGEMENT...LACK OF QUALITY PIGEONS.....HEALTH....BAD LOFT DESIGN....and the worst is ....TO MUCH OF (That`s not a bad return since you trained 40 birds) !! 
You should not LOSE any OLD birds on traning tosses...Stop making excuses...There is something WRONG,if your losing OB`s on training TOSSES...In races,that`s one thing...
But not on training tosses !!! ......................................................................
If I take 20 birds 50 miles,and they were released together,they better be home ALL together....NONE LATE...NONE MISSING !!! I have 15 nest boxes in my OB section,and it has NEVER been full with 15 pairs...I do my best to hold it to 10 pairs !!! That means,I have the best 10 pairs of OB flyers,that I can breed...I didn`t say they were the best 10 pairs in the IRPC racing pigeon combine,or even my club...It is the best I can have...And I don`t win all the races,or even come close....The very first year I raced in 1984,in my 1st Futurity Race,there were only 28 day birds,I had one,when alot of big time guys didn`t...There was another Futurity that had 58 Day birds,there were 16 Alamo blood birds clocked out of the 58,by 3 different lofts..I had 12,the other 4 by two of my club mates...I think when you are NEW to racing pigeons,you have to buy good homing pigeons,and breed them,and find out which birds give you the best RACING pigeons...You have to get them home first,then decide if they home fast enough to be competitive, against your competition...You can`t be losing them in training toses...You can never get to the winners circle if you lose them in training.....I didn`t write this post to be MEAN or NASTY..I`m stating a FACT OF LIFE,when it comes to racing pigeons.....
You have to CULL your sub standard pigeons off your race team...If you don`t,you will lose them training,and IN the races you fly...And that`s not a whole lot of fun...Alamo


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear abut your loss. I just don't understand how that many OB's that have been with you for 4 years just decide to not come home. Have you gotten any back today? Keep us posted.


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I'm sorry to hear abut your loss. I just don't understand how that many OB's that have been with you for 4 years just decide to not come home. Have you gotten any back today? Keep us posted.


its gone a bit strange two of the oldest birds that i have lost have come back with two diffent rings on them 1 red and 1 purple as well as my racing ring wat do you think


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

james fillbrook said:


> its gone a bit strange two of the oldest birds that i have lost have come back with two diffent rings on them 1 red and 1 purple as well as my racing ring wat do you think


Well, they certainly didn't get there without help...........


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

james fillbrook said:


> its gone a bit strange two of the oldest birds that i have lost have come back with two diffent rings on them 1 red and 1 purple as well as my racing ring wat do you think


What in the world!


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> What in the world!


i know so they must have gone to someones loft


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I have red rings but no purple. Beside, it would be nice to add some English stock to my American breed. If I had to guess, I would say your old birds stopped off at another loft for a spot of tea old boy. LOL


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## pigeonman25 (Jun 7, 2015)

*lost birds*

I had 8 birds that I took on a 20 mile training toss 2 weeks ago. 4 old birds and 4 youngsters. When I released they were doing fine, but when i got home there was only one OB. Then a youngster showed up. 4 hours later 2 old birds came in separately. I had 4 birds. 3 old birds and a youngster. I was missing 3 youngsters and an old bird. I believe that a hawk separated my flock and scattered my birds because they should've came as group. The missing old bird should've came home, but she was a red grizzle and i think the hawk had to of got her because she's been to this spot twice already. The 3 youngsters are just stupid they don;t know what they are doing. 16 days after i released them a youngster shows up. That just goes to prove that the rest of them will probably show up if they are not dead already. Just give it time,even as long as a month, they could still return.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Pigeonman25, 
This is a 6 years old thread. If you want more members to see your post, pls create your own new thread. If you just wanted to add to this existing, thanks for writing in.


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dove hunters!


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