# best way to treat over 800 homing birds?



## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

I have been helping an 87 yr old man take care of his birds. He has over 800 birds and many of them have diplomas and raced all over the world and placed in many futurity races.

We are trying to figure out a good program to treat and prevent sickness with these birds. 

Any suggestions on medications or treatments to use in the water for starters?

We go thru at least 30 gallons of water a day and about 50LBS of feed a day also. spend aproximately 6000,00 on feed alone a year.

Any suggestions or Ideas would be great appreciated!

Thanks Ben Laird


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

If money is an issue I wouldn't be concerned with how treat them. I'd be more concerned how do I lower my numbers. 800 birds, just the thought of that sounds crazy. Hopefully someone with more experience with that many birds comes around and answers your question. Good luck.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Eriduardo said:


> If money is an issue I wouldn't be concerned with how treat them. I'd be more concerned how do I lower my numbers. 800 birds, just the thought of that sounds crazy. Hopefully someone with more experience with that many birds comes around and answers your question. Good luck.


X2. I would think he could sell a few of his birds or something....


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Eriduardo said:


> If money is an issue I wouldn't be concerned with how treat them. I'd be more concerned how do I lower my numbers. 800 birds, just the thought of that sounds crazy. Hopefully someone with more experience with that many birds comes around and answers your question. Good luck.


Thank you with the response! I have been discussing this issue with him. Wally would like to sell some birds and we have sold some breeding pairs, singles and other birds. Money really is not an issue! He would sell his buisness that use to employ over 350 people first before he would get rid of his birds.

His son use to care for them 7 days a wk and 12 hour days and passed away two yrs ago.

I believe I found a preventive maintence program that includes Garlic, apple cider vinnager, probiotics, and brewers yeast that I found on the sight.

have some pics of the lofts on my face book page. I'm having a problem uploading pics on here.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

We are located in Denver colorado and did have a guy from back east that called this morning whom would like to come out and buy some birds.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

Do you have names for every single bird? Lol, that would be amazing! 

*Sorry to go off topic*


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

Wow!! I can't imagine having close to that many birds.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

TwinTurboPigeon said:


> Do you have names for every single bird? Lol, that would be amazing!
> 
> *Sorry to go off topic*[/QUOTE
> Obviously we don't!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

800 birds at his age is just too much. he needs to sell and sell hard. there needs to be some egg collection as well.. 800 is just too much if you don't hire at least 4 people to work there. as far as treating them, I would do one loft at a time or section, keep the birds in and get a calendar out and organize it. there are plenty of meds and things to choose from online at any pigeons supply site.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

thats alot of birds. i have 30 birds and having a hard time to keep it clean.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

gbhman said:


> I agree with others that 800+ birds is way too much. I'm not going to comment on medications, but for your own sake I hope you are at the least using a dust mask or respirator.


I have not been using dust masks. I do have plenty of them and will start.. other then lengthy exposers to cleaning and maintaining pigeon lofts, What other then pigeon lung disease would I possibly be exposing myself to? I also have a two yr old son whom acompanies myself while maintaining the lofts and it's contents?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

with old droppings they can harbor fungus or molds as well.. plus the feather dust with that many can not be good for the lungs.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

Maintaining 800 birds is a full time job for at least 3-4 man power.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

I think Wally needs to start considering the Well Being of the birds over his Obsession to keep all of them. Which I know for someone of his age and success it's probably hard But-----800 birds is Unreal.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Wally is well aware of his situation! If any of you know him, know that he has quality stock! All of his pedigree is on file in spiral notebooks. NOT AN EASY TASK. I discussed yesterday of buying a tablet and a soft ware program so we could start transferring everything over. He has been concidering selling off some birds. Before I showed up he did pay his employees to care for them. were talking about a guy thatused to have 350 employees.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

and i would suggest to keep your son away from the lofts. if you worry about you getting the diseases, imagine what it can do to a toddler. jmho.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he may know all about his birds and have it organized, but the burden of the birds will come to family and to be real he is up in age and should think about what is to happen when he is gone. for everyones sake. I guess an auction would be one choice.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

benson1 said:


> Wally is well aware of his situation! If any of you know him, know that he has quality stock! All of his pedigree is on file in spiral notebooks. NOT AN EASY TASK. I discussed yesterday of buying a tablet and a soft ware program so we could start transferring everything over. He has been concidering selling off some birds. Before I showed up he did pay his employees to care for them. were talking about a guy thatused to have 350 employees.


*Getting the numbers down is priority for obvious health reasons and more. I think selling is good idea (auction), and removing eggs and replacing with dummies is second idea. I'm sure this was already mentioned. Bless you for helping him and to those who also are helping.

Would love to see some pictures of his setup. *


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## mikeyg (Jul 11, 2012)

I will re-iterate what most have already said. 

My only disclaimer is if you want to raise healthy birds. So with that said, 800 birds is a 3 to 4 man job full time PERIOD! Again if you want healthy birds. 

Sell now before it becomes problematic, then he can go out saying he enjoyed the sport for more years then most, and maintained a hefty stock & successful racing career.

I can't even imagine the size of the loft, probably a small home. Please post pictures on PT!!


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## CarloSantoro (Jun 22, 2011)

I would love to see pictures of his coop and his birds, that has to be some site.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Carlo I agree with you I would love to see that loft. I think I went to your facebook page and saw some ice fishing picture but never saw any pigeon pics. By the way if that is your sight way to go on that mess of sunfish you caught. I love ice fishing.


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## CarloSantoro (Jun 22, 2011)

tjc1 said:


> Carlo I agree with you I would love to see that loft. I think I went to your facebook page and saw some ice fishing picture but never saw any pigeon pics. By the way if that is your sight way to go on that mess of sunfish you caught. I love ice fishing.


not my facebook i never went ice fishing


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

No Benson1 facebook page(sorry I should have been clearer)


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Unless one has a loft the size of a department store and a team of atleast 5 people looking after them full time I do not think any treatment or medication program could keep this many birds in top health. Its a sad story but someone needs to get hard with him, Tough love is the key here I feel


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

pigeon is fun said:


> Maintaining 800 birds is a full time job for at least 3-4 man power.


That's what I was thinking.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Seperate all the hens and cock birds. Sounds like there are several lofts. So this can be done with out a problem. Then you can go over the charts. And move the better birds to the same loft. COCKS then hens keeping them seperated. Far as meds Well Are the birds healthy. Clean the lofts. Dip the birds for lice and such. Worm them. Use vitimans and ACV. 800 birds you can do that. I new a person that kept about 600 birds Managed them by his self Had 3 lofts ONe was a house converted to a loft. It will take a time to organize. And go through the birds. Sell off say at least HALF keeping the top birds. DO not breed them EXCEPT for certion pairs You select. BUT do that next year. Say top 15 20 pair. Go just 2 rounds. Most meds can be added to the water. PMV will have to given by NEEDLE, Dipping the birds IS FAST you can dip a 100 birds in no time. So After you seperate the birds dip one loft at a time USE a 5 gallon bucket. I used malithion 3 tablespoon to 4 tablesppons in four gallong of water. Works good.It will not be easy getting the birds sold to reduce numbers But make a plan Auctions . ECT. Evewn could offer some for sale here as you get them figured out. GOOD LUCK Thanks for stepping up and helping this person out with the birds.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

tjc1 said:


> Carlo I agree with you I would love to see that loft. I think I went to your facebook page and saw some ice fishing picture but never saw any pigeon pics. By the way if that is your sight way to go on that mess of sunfish you caught. I love ice fishing.


TjC1,

You where on the correct page. Ice fishing is my passion, as most the fishing I do is on the frozen tundras. Early death ice is my favorite and am usually first on all fisheries to get the great early byte. I prefer walleye, Crappie and perch.

Friend me on facebook and I will tag you in the pics of wallys lofts! 

Would love to have more pigeon guys on my friends list!


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

re lee said:


> Seperate all the hens and cock birds. Sounds like there are several lofts. So this can be done with out a problem. Then you can go over the charts. And move the better birds to the same loft. COCKS then hens keeping them seperated. Far as meds Well Are the birds healthy. Clean the lofts. Dip the birds for lice and such. Worm them. Use vitimans and ACV. 800 birds you can do that. I new a person that kept about 600 birds Managed them by his self Had 3 lofts ONe was a house converted to a loft. It will take a time to organize. And go through the birds. Sell off say at least HALF keeping the top birds. DO not breed them EXCEPT for certion pairs You select. BUT do that next year. Say top 15 20 pair. Go just 2 rounds. Most meds can be added to the water. PMV will have to given by NEEDLE, Dipping the birds IS FAST you can dip a 100 birds in no time. So After you seperate the birds dip one loft at a time USE a 5 gallon bucket. I used malithion 3 tablespoon to 4 tablesppons in four gallong of water. Works good.It will not be easy getting the birds sold to reduce numbers But make a plan Auctions . ECT. Evewn could offer some for sale here as you get them figured out. GOOD LUCK Thanks for stepping up and helping this person out with the birds.


Thank you very much for your advice!

If you don't mind, I would like to Private message you in the near future with questions pertaining to birds?


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Update,

The lofts are being cleaned and all birds are being fed.
The last two wks we have been exersizing 2013 young birds and 2012 old birds. 

Wally and myself have been going thru the lofts and discussing what needs to be done as far what to do with up keep. 

Yesterday I treated the water with organic garlic cloves and organic apple cider vinnegar.

I'm basically a helping hand for the birds when I have time that permits. I live over 30 mls from his lofts and traffic can be trecherous. He has compensated me for gas and in gifts of quality birds. before I forget, He has compensated myself with mountains of knowledge in the homing pigeon field that in my eyes is priceless.

He respects me alot and has said that when it comes to birds, he wants me to get the best from him. As it will compliment his lofts.

Thank you everyone for the kind and thoughtfull advice! As Wally is a very busy man and doesn't have alot of time to sit down and teach me everything in a short period of time. I'm a motivated and ambitious person and would like to show him that he doesn't need to hold my hand.

Thank you 
Ben Laird


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

That isn't a 3-4 man job, it isn't hard to take care of that many pigeons if you know what ur doing. I know a pigeon farm with 12,000 pigeons and its him and his son. When he first was starting up he had a fulltime job and 3000 birds. I don't get where you came up with 3-4 people needed. 



mikeyg said:


> I will re-iterate what most have already said.
> 
> My only disclaimer is if you want to raise healthy birds. So with that said, 800 birds is a 3 to 4 man job full time PERIOD! Again if you want healthy birds.
> 
> ...


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Where is this 12,00 bird farm located? Is it a squab operation? In order for two people to take care of that many birds, it has to be set up like the professional chicken farms used for egg production or meat production. Automatic feeders, waterers, etc. And probably many pigeons stuck together in wire mesh caging. Or hundreds/thousands of birds living in huge buildings on dirt floors( maybe concrete?)

I just don't see how 2 people could take good care of that many birds, even if the farm was set up like the above. At least not good care. I hope you can prove me wrong!


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I have friended you on facebook. Fellow ice fisherman and pigeon guys unite. LOL


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pigeon lower said:


> That isn't a 3-4 man job, it isn't hard to take care of that many pigeons if you know what ur doing. I know a pigeon farm with 12,000 pigeons and its him and his son. When he first was starting up he had a fulltime job and 3000 birds. I don't get where you came up with 3-4 people needed.


I am too interested in the purpose of this 12,000 pigeon pigeon farm, Caring for birds for food would be a lot easier than the care and attention required to keep racing pigeons not only healthy but keen, Granted, Wally and Ben sound like they are doing a great job and surely the years of experience that Wally holds is testament to that aswell as Bens commitment.

Its atleast a fulltime job for one person!


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

benson, im new to pigeon flying so im very interested in the same information. I would recommend calling a big one loft race such as texas shootout, san diego tripple crown, and rick mardis at CBS and ask these questions. These guys all have done it or are near 800 birds, they would be best at answering this. No offense to many on this site because everyone gives great info, but we are no where near the experience as some of these one loft race guys. I called rick mardis for molting questions and he answered so i know he would help you.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

All you need to do is feed and water them, that's one person, lets says 2-3 hours a day maybe less. As long as the droppings are dry you don't have to clean, just clean like once a week or once every two weeks. They'll build an immune system up that way, Ad Shaerlaeckens hasn't cleaned his loft in two years. (He has a special corn cob bedding though). With 800 pigeons are you really trying to spend time with them and make them tame? I wouldn't I'd be relieved to just take care of them lol.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I am too interested in the purpose of this 12,000 pigeon pigeon farm, Caring for birds for food would be a lot easier than the care and attention required to keep racing pigeons not only healthy but keen, Granted, Wally and Ben sound like they are doing a great job and surely the years of experience that Wally holds is testament to that aswell as Bens commitment.
> 
> Its atleast a fulltime job for one person!


Wallys son Sam was the full time cae taker for his birds untill his passing exactl two yrs ago Yesterday. He worked 7 days a wk pulling 12 hr days.

guess if a guy had a life outside of birds you would have to hire another guy.

Wally has bread a long line of STRONG, HEALTHY, INDURENCE birds! 

Like I said, Wally doesn't have the time to teach me every thing in a short periods time. Thus why I asked questions here to get everyones feedback so I didn't have to bother him. I like to impress and I love knowledge. This sight has alot of that to offer and great people with great advice to offer ideas.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm sure you and Wally will get it all figured out and solved eventually. And you're right, his Knowledge is Priceless.


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

almondman said:


> Where is this 12,00 bird farm located? Is it a squab operation? In order for two people to take care of that many birds, it has to be set up like the professional chicken farms used for egg production or meat production. Automatic feeders, waterers, etc. And probably many pigeons stuck together in wire mesh caging. Or hundreds/thousands of birds living in huge buildings on dirt floors( maybe concrete?)
> 
> I just don't see how 2 people could take good care of that many birds, even if the farm was set up like the above. At least not good care. I hope you can prove me wrong!


Yeah it is a pigeon farm, and he has 500+ hobby birds too. Just because he runs it for squab doesn't mean it cant be run properly. Automatic waterers, just fill with water and meds and the whole row is treated. Fill feed troughs once a week, its all screened so the left overs are fed to his cattle and chickens. Alley scraper under the pens , barn is cleaned in 5 mins. Just because you guys don't know what goes on in a pigeon farm doesn't mean you have to down talk them, The barns probally cleaner then most peoples coops who have 10 birds.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

You should be able to tell that I do know something about pigeon farming by my questions concerning the set up. I was not knocking it, but only trying to give everyone a picture of how a large set up is run. 

The original post was talking about 800 birds kept in a loft(?) type situation. It was a bit confusing so I wanted some clarification. I asked you to prove me wrong, and you did. Thank you for providing that for us.


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

Maybe wally will hire me! 
Then I wont have to get up at 4:30 every morning to milk cows.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow I saw all those loft on your page and I just want to that is amazing. That is some spread the old man has. Good luck and learn a lot he probably has lots of knowledge for you. I hope he swings you some real winners also.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Some people have there loft set up Where they can feed the birds with out side the loft feeders And waters. They do not have to enter the loft to feed them. Makes it easy with more birds. Then enter the loft to clean Unless have expanded metal floors then doppings can be raked out from under the loft. Birds should be handled and checked To be kept half way tamed. Its good to learn from people And the old timers are going away every day. I would learn what you can. Andbe glad to have met this person. You sound like you are getting some decent birds and learning from him. and other souces. Keep us posted on results


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pigeon lower said:


> Yeah it is a pigeon farm, and he has 500+ hobby birds too. Just because he runs it for squab doesn't mean it cant be run properly. Automatic waterers, just fill with water and meds and the whole row is treated. Fill feed troughs once a week, its all screened so the left overs are fed to his cattle and chickens. Alley scraper under the pens , barn is cleaned in 5 mins. Just because you guys don't know what goes on in a pigeon farm doesn't mean you have to down talk them, The barns probally cleaner then most peoples coops who have 10 birds.


Who was talking them down, I agree, The farms would be cleaner than most lofts, I clean twice a day but no way I could get a loft as clean as the process described above. I was not trying to knock, Was genuinely interested


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

benson1 said:


> Update,
> 
> The lofts are being cleaned and all birds are being fed.
> The last two wks we have been exersizing 2013 young birds and 2012 old birds.
> ...



you have found a mentor, those are not easy to come by these days.. congrats and enjoy.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I agree that you are very lucky to have found such a mentor. You will be a far better pigeon person for the relationship. Good luck with your future.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

All of wallys lofts have external water boxes mounted to the facade of the building at about 4'. They are designed in a way that they have a lil swinging door with a water dish and circular holes cut from the inside for the birds to stick the heads thru. Most lofts have the steal mesh floors so you can clean them out from below. All birds have to be fed from the inside.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

benson1 said:


> All of wallys lofts have external water boxes mounted to the facade of the building at about 4'. They are designed in a way that they have a lil swinging door with a water dish and circular holes cut from the inside for the birds to stick the heads thru. Most lofts have the steal mesh floors so you can clean them out from below. All birds have to be fed from the inside.


*I would just love to see pictures of the lofts, the birds, and NOW their water supplies, you have got me so curious. *


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

All of wallys lofts have external water boxes mounted to the facade of the building at about 4'. They are designed in a way that they have a lil swinging door with a water dish and circular holes cut from the inside for the birds to stick the heads thru. Most lofts have the steal mesh floors so you can clean them out from below. All birds have to be fed from the inside.

The only pain in the but is cleaning and feeding the three individual breeding lofts that have #10 3'x6'x8' breeding stalls in each loft. Its sliding door after sliding door and it really sucks.

So far I have received two fabre by Kenny schwartz x Landorsey young birds and have been settling them for almost a wk and the one that had great balance, Good circle of life and corolation, Form and and attentiveness got out of my personal loft last evening while feeding.I'm still very down on myself today about this. 

I started trap training my hoppers a couple days ago and they wasted no time going thr the traps and that I let out wasted no time in getting back in the loft.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

It will be difficult for the regular pigeon fanciers to advice you on this,as a number of 800 is so huge.May be someone in the Facebook pigeon groups will be of help....this is the link.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/109828905799177/


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

boneyrajan.k said:


> It will be difficult for the regular pigeon fanciers to advice you on this,as a number of 800 is so huge.May be someone in the Facebook pigeon groups will be of help....this is the link.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/109828905799177/


Many people can keep around 150 to 200 birds. And have an easy time taking care of them 800 is alot. But the idea is the same. Have the room and the method of care.. NOW far as QUALITY. 800 is hard to maintain top quality.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

boneyrajan.k said:


> It will be difficult for the regular pigeon fanciers to advice you on this,as a number of 800 is so huge.May be someone in the Facebook pigeon groups will be of help....this is the link.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/109828905799177/


Boney, Why do you believe that PT only contains refular pigeon fanciers but facebook will have less regular, I think the guys here have demonstrated they are able to give advice and help here. RE lee has had years experience and has given some advice along with others. I am confused why you don't think PT can provide the info


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Skyeking said:


> *I would just love to see pictures of the lofts, the birds, and NOW their water supplies, you have got me so curious. *


I think there are some on his facebook page which is linked above somewhere


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

You will have to look me up on facebook. I uploaded more pics yesterday.
Ben Laird
Aurora, Co
80017


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

benson1 said:


> You will have to look me up on facebook. I uploaded more pics yesterday.
> Ben Laird
> Aurora, Co
> 80017


I think you have your pictures on private. I can only see fishing photos.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

I just uploaded them again. Maybe that will help.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Boney, Why do you believe that PT only contains refular pigeon fanciers but facebook will have less regular, I think the guys here have demonstrated they are able to give advice and help here. RE lee has had years experience and has given some advice along with others. I am confused why you don't think PT can provide the info


Sorry,i dint mean it in the bad way.I know there are many expert guys in PT,i have huge respect for them and fortunately many of them are my good friends too.I just meant that,he can also look up for this in facebook too.People like Re lee are very helpful and experts in this field.


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

If you find sick birds, I would suggest isolating them from the rest of the flock and medicating.
Garlic and appple cider vinegar will certainly help on a weekly basis. I do agree with the others that have posted here, that 800 birds seems like a tremendous amount of work. If you are experiencing a lot of dust in the loft, my concern would repiratory issue for the birds as well. How often are they allowed out to fly?


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Rod Hultquist said:


> If you find sick birds, I would suggest isolating them from the rest of the flock and medicating.
> Garlic and appple cider vinegar will certainly help on a weekly basis. I do agree with the others that have posted here, that 800 birds seems like a tremendous amount of work. If you are experiencing a lot of dust in the loft, my concern would repiratory issue for the birds as well. How often are they allowed out to fly?


Rod, 
This bird was pulled from a foundation hen and cock. They are in 3'x8'x6'6"
Breeding stalls... We are pulling all birds from these three lofts and putting them in large flight pens. plan on doing alot of renovations to lofts and culling alot of birds.


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