# What is a single pin tail



## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

I have been raising homers for a few years now and have heard the phrase "single pin tail" many times by those selling birds. But I still don't understand what it refers to and how it is advantagous to racers. I did a search on here and couldn't come up with a thread that discusses the term. Can anyone enlighten me on what it means, looks like or why it is desireable? Thanks.

Jim


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## dennis kuhn (Dec 29, 2007)

Refers to when you are holding a bird in your hand; and look at the tail, you can only see one tail feather as all the others are laid directly under the top tail feather perfectly. It is also one of the qualities that judges look for if you show racing pigeons. This quality doesn't have any bearing on how well a bird will race, but just is a characteristic in describing how a bird looks.

Dennis Kuhn

http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com

http://www.whiteracingpigeons.com


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

dennis kuhn said:


> Refers to when you are holding a bird in your hand; and look at the tail, you can only see one tail feather as all the others are laid directly under the top tail feather perfectly. It is also one of the qualities that judges look for if you show racing pigeons. This quality doesn't have any bearing on how well a bird will race, but just is a characteristic in describing how a bird looks.
> 
> Dennis Kuhn
> 
> ...


While Dennis describes what a single tail feather is perfectly. This is one area where many believe the width of a flying pigeons tail makes no difference while others believe it does. Its a grey area just like eyesign!

While I agree with Dennis that it makes little difference in a short to medium distance bird.

I have yet to see any long distance bird (450 - 600 mi) that has a tail feather more than 1 1/2 wide with most fallling in the 1 to 1 1/4 range. 

I'm not saying there cannot be long distance birds with wider tails I've just not come across them. At least not ones than win the races or are right at the top 10 birds home on the race sheets.

With that said I know it is as clear as muddy water isnt it...... in the end it really boils down to an individuals personal preferrances.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

All the wild pigeons I see fying around ALL have a one pin tail TAIL....They couldn`t win a 100 mile race even if a hawk chased them every yard of the race....One pin tail means squat.....Alamo


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

single pin tail may also mean a single feather that was left after the bird was luckily able to escape the grasp of a hawk....



kalapati
San Diego


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Alamo said:


> All the wild pigeons I see fying around ALL have a one pin tail TAIL....They couldn`t win a 100 mile race even if a hawk chased them every yard of the race....One pin tail means squat.....Alamo


Its all in the eye of the beholder Alamo Just like eyesign theory. You say it doesnt mean squat but you give no basis for your belief. Do you fly the longer distances and if so have you ever won a long distance race with a bird that has a fan tail? Calm down its a joke but hopefully you get my point. 

I have personally never seen a winning long distance bird with a wide tail (that of 2 feathers wide or more). I had pleanty of top long distance birds back in the eighties and several day birds at the 600 miles mark on smash races. none of them displayed anything but a single tail feather when held in the hand.

The theory is simple the wider the tail the weaker the back muscles. just like when you pick up a bird and its tail pops straight up into the sky indicates a weaker back. both of these are indicators of weakness in the back. 

Again I've never seen a champion long distance bird with ether of these problems. However on the flip side you will see champion short distance birds with these symptoms of a weak or weaker back. 

If you race soley short distance speed birds ignore it if you want. But if you plan on flying the long distances and ignore these signs of weakness in the back you will most certainly lose most of your birds that display it!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

This is what guys will put on a pedigree along with "great eye", "foundation quality" etc, when they have no race records for the bird or its parents. All hype in my opinion. My best breeding male has a "wide pin tail".


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## aarongreen123 (Jan 26, 2005)

Any one have a pic of this?


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

pictures would be nice.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't think we can rule out the single pin tail as having no effect on the birds ability to fly, Anyone that understands aerodynamics would agree that the smallest difference in a bird or planes appearance or structure can make a huge difference in the sky. Whether its an advantage or disadvantage, I am not sure but surely its possible it can have some effect.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I don't think we can rule out the single pin tail as having no effect on the birds ability to fly, Anyone that understands aerodynamics would agree that the smallest difference in a bird or planes appearance or structure can make a huge difference in the sky. Whether its an advantage or disadvantage, I am not sure but surely its possible it can have some effect.


The birds fly with their tail feathers open for stability. Personally I do not think whether they can fold them into one has any effect on flying.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

one pin tail plays a part when the pigeons mate.. it matters a little bit when they mate.. some can mount longer and faster while others have trouble mating cause of balance...That is why most wild pigeons have one pin tail they can mount faster and quicker.. thus getting rape faster by the male to pass on the gene .. they dont mate while flying though so i would say it dont affect performance.. i am no pigeon expert but i am an nature expert...


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

here is a link to previous post
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/whats-a-pin-tail-47421.html

Ill try to take a pic of my birds I have birds with wide tail and some with one feather pin tail


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

hillfamilyloft said:


> The birds fly with their tail feathers open for stability. Personally I do not think whether they can fold them into one has any effect on flying.


They actually use their tail feathers a lot when flying, when going straight they are folded in, when turning they are angled one way or the other, when wanting to maintain height they curve upwards slightly towards the middle. Surely with their tail being such an important part in flying it could have some effect on the aerodynamics of the bird.

For example. High fliers have long wide tail feathers that fan out to help the bird gain height, Lets say a racing pigeon has a naturally wider tail than another, Surely the one with the wider tail will be gaining height as flying rather than going forward making the thinner tailed bird faster.

edit to add: Although I do think its logical to assume a birds aerodynamics could be affected by the tail I do not think one could use this as a selection method.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> This is what guys will put on a pedigree along with "great eye", "foundation quality" etc, when they have no race records for the bird or its parents. All hype in my opinion. My best breeding male has a "wide pin tail".


You all make my point for me, yes my top breeding male also doesn’t display a single tail feather anymore but then at the ripe old age of 12 years I don’t expect him too. 

But all of his children display the single tail feather. Both of his parents were long distance fliers with the hen being a 500 mile day bird and the cock being a multiple 600 mile day bird and they both displayed it.

The choice is all yours and if anyone wants to know how to breed for this characteristic PM me and I’ll explain it. 

With that said none of you who have so far boo hooed my theory have said or shown that you have won any kind of long distance races with a bird that displays anything but a single tail feather. 

You may win the short races on occasion but show me you can win consistently without the advantage of a strong back and single width tail.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd say all personal Theories.Who really knows?Any Scientific Proof?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Old Wife`s tales for racing pigeon fanciers....

#1......Eye Sign....The Eye Sign experts have pigeons with the BEST EYES,but they have NO first place trophys at home....

#2.....The 2 outer tail feathers should have a white edge running along the lenght of the feathers.....

#3..... The toes of winners have white toe nails....Red pigeons/Splashes etc have some or all white toe nails....BB`s & BC`s do not,unless the bird has some white feathering....

#4..... One Pin Tail.....I have Long Distance pigeons,and there tails are 1 1/2 wide,and I have Combine 1st place Trophy`s at home...I also had a BBC that was 5th Combine with ONLY 12 Day birds....

#5.... Only good looking pigeons win races....Iv`e seen some of the uglyest pigeons over the years at some lofts....They were all winners from 300 to 600 miles....

There are many other OLD Wife`s Tales.....But I`m not that old to remember all of them.....


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Alamo said:


> Old Wife`s tales for racing pigeon fanciers....
> 
> #1......Eye Sign....The Eye Sign experts have pigeons with the BEST EYES,but they have NO first place trophys at home....
> 
> ...


You forgot several others Alamo but thats ok because were not talking wives tales or any other nonsense. *Its called personal preferrances* and how you apply it to your breeding. 

If you think all birds should have white toe nails ... go for it, its called personal preferance

If you use current eysign theories ....... go for it, the eyes like other things are simply indicators of a healthy pigeon to me, but if you think it works go for it. As it is called personal preferance.

Others think only shallow keeled birds can win races. While its been a long time sinse I've seen a deep keeled long distance bird in the winners circle. You see them all the time in short distance races. So go for it, it is your personal preferance.

So I say again what you breed for is based soley on personal preferances. You can call it anything you like Alamo but it will still be personal preferances in what one fancier likes in his or her birds compared to you, me and everyone else.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Lawman......I don`t have personal prefrences,with the exception of RED PIGEONS.....If I have two cock birds,of equal value,or quality,I will keep the Red,and sell the Blue...Other then that,I don`t care.....I like my eyes to be colorfull on my birds...And yes,health will make the birds eyes look even better....The toes and that kind of stuff is crazy...Alot of splashes,and white flights win races.....They have some white toes...So What !! But some dummies think the toes have something to do about it...Amazing !!....Alamo


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Alamo said:


> Lawman......I don`t have personal prefrences,with the exception of RED PIGEONS.....If I have two cock birds,of equal value,or quality,I will keep the Red,and sell the Blue...Other then that,I don`t care.....I like my eyes to be colorfull on my birds...And yes,health will make the birds eyes look even better....The toes and that kind of stuff is crazy...Alot of splashes,and white flights win races.....They have some white toes...So What !! But some dummies think the toes have something to do about it...Amazing !!....Alamo


Alamo we agree on something.....  we both prefer the Reds over the blue 's and blue checkers, (that is with everything else being equal like you said).


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Josepe said:


> I'd say all personal Theories.Who really knows?Any Scientific Proof?


I think there is plenty of scientific proof relating to aerodynamics that can be carried across to the pigeon, Surely a bird tail can effect its aerodynamics, If anyone disagrees with that they need read up on the creation of the aeroplane. To what extent it would affect the bird is open for debate but I really do not think we can debate the fact that everything about the birds make up will change/effeect its aerodynamics in some way.



Alamo said:


> Old Wife`s tales for racing pigeon fanciers....
> 
> #1......Eye Sign....The Eye Sign experts have pigeons with the BEST EYES,but they have NO first place trophys at home....
> 
> ...


This one made me laugh, That would be saying all "Slates" or smoky pigeons are no good as the only gene that removes the albescent strip mentioned above is the smoky gene. Anyone ever had any good slate race birds?


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