# Crust on beak - which disease?



## Helen&Moga (Mar 10, 2012)

Dear pigeon lovers,

I have already posted this pigeons story in the emergency section, but am still looking for someone who can give a vague diagnosis of what disease this pigeon I just found has.... please take a look at the pictures in that post. Thanks a ton!

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/f...d-need-some-assisstance-72369.html#post776096


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

From the photo, it seem has a respiratory infection, ornithosis or mycoplasmosis or a combinations of these with trichomonosis.

I mean, there seem to be aglutination featers around the eye and the eyelid seems to be filled with mucus.

This is treated with a combination of doxycycline and metronidazole, like 20-40 mg of doxy and ~40 mg of metronidazole / day for seven days ifthe symptoms disappear and longer if not. Also, give probiotics and apple vinegar, as for longer than 4 days, antibiotics usually cause yeast - candida.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is what is on the beak from a discharge from the nostrils? Don't know where the canker comes in though?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

It could be respiratory , the infection built up all the way to the sinus and it plugged, now is discharging through the nostrils.
But as well canker..if it smells bad, then must be canker.


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## Helen&Moga (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank you everybody - I couldn't make out a smell. If I follow AndreiS medication - how do I give antibiotics to a pigeon? Also how do I give him apple cider vinegar? A few drops in the drinking water?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Doxy - buy it from human drugstore. The capsules have 100 mg each so you appreciate visually the quantity. 

Metronidazole also from human pharmacy, see how many mg a tablet has and appreciate the quantity. You give these once a day or you can split the metro in two.

Vinegar, you put it in the drinking water not as much as the bird to reject it because of smell and not as little to be inefficient. It has to be like 1-3 tablespoons to a liter of water.

But the most important thing when a bird is sick (as with humans) is the heat, it must have something warm around, an electric blanket ideally. If not, it may take much time to recover or never recover.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Metronidazole is better given in a single dose daily. Don't split the dose.


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## Helen&Moga (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank you very much for your responses - ok, I am ready to give the medication - but how can I give it? As far as I can tell the pigeon hasn't eaten anything since yesterday, even about water i am not sure.... I guess I have to make a quick move... so how would I give him the antibiotics?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Helen&Moga said:


> Thank you very much for your responses - ok, I am ready to give the medication - but how can I give it? As far as I can tell the pigeon hasn't eaten anything since yesterday, even about water i am not sure.... I guess I have to make a quick move... so how would I give him the antibiotics?


HANDFEED THE PIGEON. He will die of starvation. Just put seeds in his beak as well as defrosted peas at room temp so he doesn't go dehydrated. Keep him comfortable away from other birds.

What medication do you have? I haven't sen telling us what is it that you have. Tell us the details: how many mg per pill.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

AndreiS said:


> Doxy - buy it from human drugstore. The capsules have 100 mg each so you appreciate visually the quantity.
> 
> Metronidazole also from human pharmacy, see how many mg a tablet has and appreciate the quantity. You give these once a day or you can split the metro in two.
> 
> ...


Andrei, se poste sa ne trimiti si noua medicamente.
Romania ne este ca toate celelalte tari precum Canada sau SUA. Ele se dau cu prescriptie si nu poti spagui nici un doctor.

APPLE CIDER VINNEGAR is indicated, not plain vinegar.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't think it is a disease but that the pigeons got caught up in a substance that hardends, like cement for example,dealing with it has gotten him down so he needs allot of care from the picture. I would treat for canker and hand feed him.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Helen&Moga said:


> Thank you very much for your responses - ok, I am ready to give the medication - but how can I give it? As far as I can tell the pigeon hasn't eaten anything since yesterday, even about water i am not sure.... I guess I have to make a quick move... so how would I give him the antibiotics?


Keeping him warm is equally important with feeding him and giving medication. 




*Warming* - if you not have electric blanket, wrap him in a cloth and put him near a heating device, ideally in a cardboard box with an opening only toward the heating source so that no air current affect the bird and the heat is kept around him.




*Feeding* - if he is too weak, won't be able to digere seeds so give him boiled peas one by one, by opening the beak and pushing the pea to the bottom. In bird's mouth there are two vents: the respiratory vent on the upper side of the tongue and the digestive vent in the bottom of the mouth. If food or water enter the respiratory tract, he will die or suffer for hours.

To give water, you have two safe ways: 

1. One is to introduce a 5 mm thick, 10 cm long tube with a syringe at the other end. You can buy a transfusion tube from drugstore, is cheap. The end of the tube that enters the pigeon mouth must not have edges (to not harm the sensible walls of the digestive tract) so keep it in fire for 1-2 seconds until it melt a little and becomes edgeless. You fill the syringe with water, attach the tube in the place of the needle and lubricate the end of the tube that enters pigeon's mouth with some fine oil (like olive oil). With one hand you open the beak and with the other introduce the tube very slowly, in fact you let it slip inside, never push if you feel the smallest obstacle. If the tube is curved, the tip must point frontward (in the direction of beak's tip, not toward the tail) while you introduce it.

2. Other way to hydrate him is to bring a vessel with water to his beak and put it that way that the water reach the both partsof the beak (the upper and lower one). The water will be slowly absorbed by capillary action inside his mouth. 




*Medicating* - proceed as with food or water. If is liquid, beside the tweo poptions above, you can carefully pour some drops on his open mouth, taking care the drops will fall underneath the tonque, where is a space (like at humans etc) between it (the tongue) and the mouth's wall. If the drops fall on the upper side of tonque they pretty sure with enter the respiratory vent and the bird will die or suffer.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please don't give the bird water. It is too easy for someone who doesn't know how, to aspirate the bird. Hold a small crock of tepid water to his beak. If he doesn't drink, then very gently dip his beak into the water. Keep trying that and maybe he will take it. As far as feeding, if you can get frozen peas, that would be perfect, then defrost and warm them under warm water. Or boil peas till very soft. What you don't feed him can be stored in freezer, and defrosted and warmed later for him. Hold him on your lap and against your body. Come from behind his head with one hand and clasp the beak. Now open it gently with your other hand. Put in a pea and push it to the back of the tongue. Let go of his beak so that he will swallow. Then do that again. He will need about 50 peas a couple of times a day, morning and afternoon. Or break them into smaller amounts and give 3 times daily. But wait for the crop to empty before you fed again. The water in the peas will help to get some water into him. Be sure to leave a small crock of water with him. What drug are you trying to give him? You need to let us know so that we can advise. You need to check on how many mg. each tablet is. You don't just give a whole pill. What medicine do you have.

spiritwings could be right in that the stuff on his beak is something he has gotten into. 
Is there a discharge from the nostrils?


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## Helen&Moga (Mar 10, 2012)

Hello everybody - thank you so much for your advice and concern.
So far Oscar (his new name) is doing a bit better - I got in touch with an Indian veterinary via a fb pigeon rescue side and he has been giving me detailed instructions on drugs and feeding. I am right now giving him 6-8mg of Metronidazole in the morning and Enofloxocin 5mg in the evening (I hope I have remembered the names correctly for you, but i am sure you know which drugs I mean). I know Andrei had advised me to give a much higher dose, but he urged me to under no circumstance give more than 10mg - so I decided to go with that. Today is the second day of his medication and one of his eyes that was sealed shut (by mucus maybe) has opened up! Overall he looks much better - his eyes are clearer. And yes - I won't feed him water, but will try what you have said making his beak touch the water. So far I think he must have been eating or drinking something as he keeps pooing a lot (plus there were seeds in the water). Nevertheless as I believe it is not sufficient I today first time handfed him frozen peas - I have to admit I gave him only 5 - I didn't want to overdo it straight away and had no idea how much he is supposed to eat. His foot by the way is not broken as I first thought but maybe limp - sometimes he stands and it looks perfectly normal, other times it doesn't open up - I guess he can't control the muscles in it. But since his other foot and his wings are fine that shouldn't be an obstacle. Well, some of the stuff on his beak came off, but some of it is still there... I can't tell if it is discharge or as you say cement - to me it resembles fungus (velvety look) - anyways, let's see how he will respond to the medicine. Since I read he should have about 50 peas (per day - or a couple a times - means 150?) and not five I will feed him maybe 20 or so later... and then increase per feeding... That's the news so far. I will have him on the medication for at least 10 days - now please only don't tell me that the dose is too low. I will eep you updated and will put a new picture soon!

Much love
Helen & Oscar


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you are going to give 6 - 8 mg of Metronidazole, then you are so under dosing that you will just build up a resistance to the drug. That will make things worse. You would be better off not giving it at all. A youngster would get 25 mg daily in one dose, and an adult would get 50 mg daily in one dose. But you don't want to be told that, so do as you wish.
I give up.

And the 50 peas 2 times daily, come to 100 daily......not 150. And that amount is for if he isn't eating on his own. Not knowing how much he is eating, then it is impossible to tell you how many peas to give him.


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