# feed



## mill pigeon (Apr 2, 2008)

what do ya'll feed your young birds? grains or pellets?


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Right now grains until I can't afford it anymore.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

I was told to feed a mixture of grains and pellets.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Yep that's what i feed, pigeon feed with pellets mixed in! A 25lb bag of pellets goes a long way! If you only feed pigeon pellets, one plus is you will not need as much grit,(and some say you don't need any grit at all ) you could get away with some pic blocks cause the birds still need that extra mineral source even if it is already supplied in the pellet!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Grim said:


> Right now grains until I can't afford it anymore.


Hi Grim, just out of curiosity where do you get your feed?, so far the only place i can find near me is a "Tractor Supply store" and their selection is sad just nutrisource feed and pellets, no pigeon grit, only chicken and chick grit but they do have oyster shell, so i was thinking maybe you know of a better place to get supplies close by cause with shipping cost, supplies can really hurt the pocketbook! I do use the specialty places like Foys, Siegels, Jedds, Global, Neps, but with shipping costing so much , you need to make very large purchases to make it worth it!


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Well I used to buy from my local feed store about 28.00/bag. I am now getting it from the local club around 22.54 a bag. Still expensive if you ask me but its what I have to do I guess. We are still about an hour from you so unless you ever visited this area it wouldn't be much help.

I may switch to pellets one day but I am still uncertain if it is just as good. By pellets i mean layer pellets not a pigeon pellet.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Jeeez that's a lot better than 26.50 a bag so not a bad deal at all, thanks for the info!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

This person shares so much information what an asset for the racing community! This is his racing pigeon mix for his breeders! Enjoy This clip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3ki44NRTU
Gotta love that Dennis!


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Yep that's what i feed, pigeon feed with pellets mixed in! A 25lb bag of pellets goes a long way! If you only feed pigeon pellets, one plus is you will not need as much grit,(and some say you don't need any grit at all ) you could get away with some pic blocks cause the birds still need that extra mineral source even if it is already supplied in the pellet!



I was told that if you only feed pellets the crop softens over time and after a while if you feed a seed type mix the crop isn't strong enough to grind the seeds. A long time breeder said this.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

That sounds like BS to me since the gizzard does the grinding. The crop is more of a storage area for the food to slowly be ingested.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Well, that's just another opinion but i don't agree with it at all,its the grit inside the gizzard that grinds the seeds and it doesn't take a whole lot of crop muscle to do it!
JMHO!


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Grim said:


> I may switch to pellets one day but I am still uncertain if it is just as good. By pellets i mean layer pellets not a pigeon pellet.


Layer pellets? Are you talking about layer pellets for Chickens? What's the difference/ benefits of the layer to pigeon pellets?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

> Once the food has been well soaked in digestive fluids it passes into the gizzard. The gizzard is a highly muscular organ which performs the same role in birds that jaws and teeth perform for us. In other words it grinds the food up into small pieces thus increasing its surface area and enabling it to be more easily digested. Some species of birds, particularly those which feed on hard dry seeds will also eat small pebbles. These become lodged in the gizzard and help grind up the food.


http://www.earthlife.net/birds/digestion.html

John


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi all, this is the first I heard of a pelleted form of pigeon feed. Sounds interesting. Can you tell me what it is called, so I can inquire at my local feed store about it? They always sold me the grain type, had peas, lentils, corn, peas, and looked like tiny bird seed. Sounds interesting to me. I was paying $13.98 for a 40# bag, an now it is $21.99 for a 40# bag. Maybe the pellets would be nice to mix with the seed? or, is that a no-no? Are you talkuing about "rabbit pellets"? Thanks,


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Well, that's just another opinion but i don't agree with it at all,its the grit inside the crop that grinds the seeds and it doesn't take a whole lot of muscle to do it!
> JMHO!





I kinda wondered about it myself.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Well we are talking about pigeon pellets let's see if i can find a link?

http://www.purgrain.com/products3.htm
While the two products are similar I do believe pigeon pellets may have a little something extra in their makeup going for it compared to chicken pellets, now don't get me wrong chicken pellets are being used by some well known pigeon racers so nothing wrong with that, having said that, we know that chickens are fed a lot of animal parts and are fed more chemicals and hormones so that may be the major difference between the two JMHO!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Also it is ok to mix pigeon pellets with your pigeon feed! some mix chicken pellets with their feed with good results!


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i have not used pellets since the 1970s.i like a feed that has many different seeds in it.and not too much on the peas like some premixed feed.when i start racing i use a higher percentage of corns and safflower and peanuts closer to shipping day.i use barley and safflower on return along with a small amount of small seeds.some say pelletts when used correctly are great when breeding and feeding young,but instead i use a feed that is much more smaller seeds along with popcorn instead of whole yellow corn.some have said turkey pellets are the best,but i wouldnt know.if you can afford it and have mills close by,i would say mix your own feed.if not use a feed that is medium protein when not flying and higher when flying.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm lucky to have a feed mill about 30 miles from my house that sells the turkey pellets for around 12 dollars for 50 pounds and whole corn for 7.50 for 50 pounds. So I use turkey pellets and whole corn more or less becasue it's cheap and good for the birds and thats all they get in terms of feed until I start training them. Then I start giving them specific grains to build them up just the way I want them. But everybody has their own ways to do things. There's as many ways to feed pigeons as there's pigeon fliers. You gotta figure out what works for your system I guess. Because if you feed your birds the way I do and don't train them as much I do then they are just gonna get fat and a fat pigeon is never good for racing.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

wow,turkey pellets and corn.boy,they could get eatin size quick on that diet.you must be able to exercise them liberally? 

and no i dont eat pigeons and never would.i did visit wendell levis pigeon plant once though being 70 miles away from me.wasnt very nice.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

What I have found, is it depends on the pellets. I have used several brands with different formulations. Some of them were not well digested, and it affected the droppings. I have recently been using an off brand with 15% protein, and have been getting good results. I cut the protein content by also feeding wheat. At some point, depending on the amount of activity, I will adjust with the addition of other grains. My thinking is that the pellets offer items which are not available from feeding a grains only diet. The prices of all grains have been going up because the cost of production and speculation has gone up. My last bag of pellets was only $15 for a 50 pound bag, which seems like a bargain. I found a brand name in an Agway store which they were asking $25, so a good bit of effort has been invested in finding some of the best deals since we buy for our entire club. One thing is apparent, the cost of feeding pigeons is going up.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

warren, i havent used a pellet since purina made them in the 70s.however,i will say on authority that one of our top flyers in our area feeds his birds turkey pellets with the same idea in mind you have and he has been hard to beat since i was out of flying.i dont know if he actually uses them when he flies or not.i think not,but really dont know.i always used many different combinations of seeds for the different purposes,but feed has gotten out of hand here as well,and ive been forced to use browns.i mix supercrack and european together along with popcorn,rice,etc.here,the days of mixing custom feed is over.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi k-will, that is just about the size of it now, I guess! What all would I need to "mix my own"? What about wheat? Oats? Do they like that too, or is it OK to mix that into their feed? the premixed is what I was getting, but like I said, it has doubled in price, and my birds don't eat those soybeans anyway. Seems such a waste. they just flick them out, and there they lay. I did buy some split peas at a health food store, I know they like those. Also, I have raw peanuts, but they don't seem to care for them at all. I even crushed them up some, but they just flick them out too!  This is a good discusion!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

it does seem like every two weeks the price of feed goes up here too ,I started going out of state just to be able to aford pigeon feed because it was upto over 20 dollars a 50lbs bag here in NJ and that was over a year ago ,I get it for about $15 a bag now for grains but I do mix in pellets which are 16% protein .


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> One thing is apparent, the cost of feeding pigeons is going up.


I know what you mean last year a 50 pound bag of corn was 5 bucks now it's 7.50 and the turkey pellets were under 9 bucks now they are about 12. And they seam to go up every time I go down there to get feed which is about every 2 weeks. They also sell brown's international there a few months ago it was 17.50 a bag about 2 bucks cheaper then the 2 pigeon stores here on Long Island now they are up to 22 bucks but the pigeon stores are even higher. Plus with the price of gas I don't know if it's going to be worth flying old birds this year. I have my 25 bird team and a few of them could do somthing but I don't know if I can afford to train them the way I would like because it's gonna cost to much. And here on Long Island where I am if I wanna go on a 35 to 40 air mile toss in the direction of the race course I have to pay to go over the Verrazano Bridge which cost 10 bucks and over the 0uter bridge crossing which cost another 8 bucks so it adds up. It'll cost me 40 bucks to go on a 35 to 40 air mile toss which is ridiculus not to mention sitting in traffic all the way through NYC. Thats why I do alot of back tosses it's cheaper to take them out to Montauk Point and get a 80 mile toss then to take them online 40 miles. Plus it's a much nicer drive.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

if you plan to race i would say keep putting the peanuts in.when they are very young they will have trouble eating them,so they throw them around.but,once they get the taste for them,they will come running for them.as far as premix feed,the browns is ok,but ive had much better feed over the years.yes,all the grains you mentioned will be good for them.dont know about that health food stuff though.try brown rice,safflower if not in your mix.just a thing i have noticed not really part of this thread.i quit using garlic in any form with my birds.dont ask why.i dont know.i also quit using bleach in the waterers and on the loft floor.had heard it was bad to put in loft for cleaner.i now believe this.i have no idea why.i now use a general soap on my floor,and dont allow birds out of boxes until fan dried once a week.along with the chisolm trail health plan my birds are the healthiest i have ever owned in 30 years.not a bad looking dropping to be found ever.the birds just gleam.anyway,alot of different feed mixes will work.just,dont let them get fat.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> it does seem like every two weeks the price of feed goes up here too ,I started going out of state just to be able to aford pigeon feed because it was upto over 20 dollars a 50lbs bag here in NJ and that was over a year ago ,I get it for about $15 a bag now for grains but I do mix in pellets which are 16% protein .


Are you feeding the "Turkey Pellets"? We have one (1) feed mill that is local, but I can drive to another, about 50 miles away, but they don't carry pigeon feed, so I would have to have it mixed. I never heard of the 'turkey pellets' either, so I'll be making some calls tomorrow. 
I do know, tho, that the Pigeon Feed I was feeding has doubled. That is not good. Right when I am trying to build my own flock, too! If that keeps up, they will for sure be on woodies!


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i just caught your latest post pigeon0446.why dont you try widowhood?if you fly cocks only and get them going you dont have to train as much anyway.on widowhood,if you can free exercise in the morning and evening,then toss once or twice a week,you will do as well as anything.try it.

ive been doing this for 20 years off and on.it works.you know the system is working when they fly and fly and you worry about them flying too much.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

k-will said:


> if you plan to race i would say keep putting the peanuts in.when they are very young they will have trouble eating them,so they throw them around.but,once they get the taste for them,they will come running for them.as far as premix feed,the browns is ok,but ive had much better feed over the years.yes,all the grains you mentioned will be good for them.dont know about that health food stuff though.try brown rice,safflower if not in your mix.just a thing i have noticed not really part of this thread.i quit using garlic in any form with my birds.dont ask why.i dont know.i also quit using bleach in the waterers and on the loft floor.had heard it was bad to put in loft for cleaner.i now believe this.i have no idea why.i now use a general soap on my floor,and dont allow birds out of boxes until fan dried once a week.along with the chisolm trail health plan my birds are the healthiest i have ever owned in 30 years.not a bad looking dropping to be found ever.the birds just gleam.anyway,alot of different feed mixes will work.just,dont let them get fat.


Hi, the stuff at the Health food store is real nice. I buy my oatmeal there, and other stuff. No added anything! The split peas go real well. I paid $3.70 for 5 pounds of dried split green peas. In total, I spent $13.80, but I bought 5# dried split peas; 5 # bulgar wheat; 5# red wheat;5# hulled oats; 5# of lentils (no waste to any of this stuff) At least it is a start. Oh, I won't let them get fat! I don't use the bleach either, but I do use the ACV in their water once a week, and the Red Cell Vitamins once a week, and never had any "off" poos.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

I know what you are saying about them getting fat ,you should see some of my breeders lol they look like they have a beer gut  but hey I figure they need a little extra while raising those babies cuz we all know it takes alot out of them  Turkey pellets here are almost 18$ a bag thats why I started using the chicken pellets instead which run about 11.50 a bag now and the grains mixed with that .. we must be keeping the farmers happy is all I can imagine


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I know what you are saying about them getting fat ,you should see some of my breeders lol they look like they have a beer gut  but hey I figure they need a little extra while raising those babies cuz we all know it takes alot out of them  Turkey pellets here are almost 18$ a bag thats why I started using the chicken pellets instead which run about 11.50 a bag now and the grains mixed with that .. we must be keeping the farmers happy is all I can imagine


Dude! My husband is a retired farmer, and believe me, it ain't the farmers getting those prices either..... Think of it like this: Eggs in the store are $3.35 a dozen. The farmer sure didn't get that for his eggs. And, corn is really out of site. It is $11.75 a (50#) bag too. The pigeon feed I was buying only came in 40# bags. Please don't blame the farmer My husband sees these prices, and just cringes. He said of all the fields he had planted, he never got what the prices are now. I think it has to do with the third party involved. If you buy a dozen eggs from a farmer, you'd most likely pay $1.00-$1.25 a dozen. If he got $3.39 a dozen, he would be very happy. I went shopping today, and that is what the price of eggs were. Yup, there was a whole lot of people just walking on by, too.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I've always thought about trying widowhood and one of these years I'll try it. But I think it's a little to late for this year and my old bird coop isn't set up for it I started setting it up for widowhood by changing the way the section were set up in the coop but I never got the nest boxes in there so all they have are perches it and the races start in a week and a half. Idk I'm just a lil messed up this year when it comes to the old birds. I wan't gonna fly but then I'm like what the heck I gotta you know. It's in my blood I can't not fly.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

*Any other feed ideas?*

Well, I called the feed mill this am, and they don't have any wheat- or barley-or rye; they only *have cracked corn , whole corn, and oats*. 
And, when I asked about the turkey pellets, they just laughed at me!  They said they _don't have _turkey pellets, and never heard of them. I did ask about the chicken pellets (figured I was on a roll already!) and he said the same. I doubt if I can feed a diet of corn wheat and oats, and still maintain the nutritional value. Any suggestions?


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Dude! My husband is a retired farmer, and believe me, it ain't the farmers getting those prices either..... Think of it like this: Eggs in the store are $3.35 a dozen. The farmer sure didn't get that for his eggs. And, corn is really out of site. It is $11.75 a (50#) bag too. The pigeon feed I was buying only came in 40# bags. Please don't blame the farmer My husband sees these prices, and just cringes. He said of all the fields he had planted, he never got what the prices are now. I think it has to do with the third party involved. If you buy a dozen eggs from a farmer, you'd most likely pay $1.00-$1.25 a dozen. If he got $3.39 a dozen, he would be very happy. I went shopping today, and that is what the price of eggs were. Yup, there was a whole lot of people just walking on by, too.


 You are so right about the farmers not getting the $$$, I was raised farming and we never got a raise when prices went up.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Well, I called the feed mill this am, and they don't have any wheat- or barley-or rye; they only *have cracked corn , whole corn, and oats*.
> And, when I asked about the turkey pellets, they just laughed at me!  They said they _don't have _turkey pellets, and never heard of them. I did ask about the chicken pellets (figured I was on a roll already!) and he said the same.


That's not a very good "feed mill" then!! Duh!


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Around here( S.E. WI.) I feed store I go to only keep crumbles in stock for both turkey and chicken and said they couldn't get pigeon pellets, so I've been adding layer crumbles to the pigeon seed mix.
If thats any help Sb Sue. 

I called one of the purina co-ops and asked if they could special order pigeon seed mix for me, they said special orders take a MONTH to get and they would call back.... they never called back  and so lost a very good customer.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

DO they eat the crumbles? I heard they don't like them and will only eat crumbles if they are starving.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

*Problem solved, for now!*

Hi, and thanks everyone for the info. We have a total of TWO (2) Feed mills here, and I just got home from the one 50 miles away. I went off-line earlier, and called, and they had Pigeon Feed for $15.00 for a 50# bag. I went over there and bought 200#. Yesterday, I picked up the dried split peas, and other goodies to mix in, but I couldn't get over the price difference! No, ESL, neither had any turkey pellets or crumbles or anything that even resembled it. No pellets, except rabbit pellets. 
This 200# will last me a long time, so maybe things will level off eventually. it sure had me worried last night!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Hi, and thanks everyone for the info. We have a total of TWO (2) Feed mills here, and I just got home from the one 50 miles away. I went off-line earlier, and called, and they had Pigeon Feed for $15.00 for a 50# bag. I went over there and bought 200#. Yesterday, I picked up the dried split peas, and other goodies to mix in, but I couldn't get over the price difference! No, ESL, neither had any turkey pellets or crumbles or anything that even resembled it. No pellets, except rabbit pellets.
> This 200# will last me a long time, so maybe things will level off eventually. it sure had me worried last night!


$15.00???????????? That's an unheard of price around here anyway. We've been paying $17 to $19 up until about 2 months ago and now we pay $22 to $26 for a bag.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, Renee, $15.00 for a 50# bag. That is why I bought 200#! They got to be fed, and this will last me a lonnnnnng time!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Adding my wacky comments...just one of those days... 

Mr. Squeaks gets grains from either the feed store (sometimes) and Paloma seed mix from Petco (all the time) along with "treats" of safflower, hemp, Songbird Mix and Grains & Greens for Parakeets. What he doesn't like, he throws out and makes a mess!

He also "supplements" his diet with pellets...CAT pellets. Not many and not often. If there are a few pellets not eaten, he will help himself. Funny to watch him. He tries a few until he finds just the "right" one. Gulp...down it goes!

Of course, we ARE talking about only ONE spoiled pigeon!

Shi & Squeaks


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

mr squeaks said:


> Adding my wacky comments...just one of those days...
> 
> Mr. Squeaks gets grains from either the feed store (sometimes) and Paloma seed mix from Petco (all the time) along with "treats" of safflower, hemp, Songbird Mix and Grains & Greens for Parakeets. What he doesn't like, he throws out and makes a mess!
> 
> ...


Now that gives me an idea..........could you imagine if this now turns into a new racing fad !  I would imagine that it would boost their protein levels....boy that Mr. Squeaks sure is spoiled !!!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

What are cat pellets? Are you serious Warren? I'll try anything once, twice if I like it.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> What are cat pellets? Are you serious Warren? I'll try anything once, twice if I like it.


First rule Renee, is never give your birds anything you are not willing to consume yourself. So go to your supermarket and get a small bag of *Purina One* brand of cat food...you can get salmon or chicken. It is in pellet form, thus the term "Cat Pellet".....I would try eating it with a little milk at first......... 

Let me know how you make out....I have the chicken "Special Care" formula, and I have five members of my family who eat it down like there is no tomorrow !!  

Some of them eat it for breakfast, some for dinner, and some eat it for both breakfast and dinner. Let me know if you try it.....and like it !


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> First rule Renee, is never give your birds anything you are not willing to consume yourself. So go to your supermarket and get a small bag of *Purina One* brand of cat food...you can get salmon or chicken. It is in pellet form, thus the term "Cat Pellet".....I would try eating it with a little milk at first.........
> 
> Let me know how you make out....I have the chicken "Special Care" formula, and I have five members of my family who eat it down like there is no tomorrow !!
> 
> Some of them eat it for breakfast, some for dinner, and some eat it for both breakfast and dinner. Let me know if you try it.....and like it !


And I'll bet those that are eating it are cats too!  Mine likes Friskies, but it MUST be fish flavor!


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Grim said:


> DO they eat the crumbles? I heard they don't like them and will only eat crumbles if they are starving.




Yes they are eating both the seed and pellets, I also have my doves on this mix. Sometimes they will eat more crumbles than seed, other times more seed,
guess it just depends on what they want that day,


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> First rule Renee, is never give your birds anything you are not willing to consume yourself. So go to your supermarket and get a small bag of *Purina One* brand of cat food...you can get salmon or chicken. It is in pellet form, thus the term "Cat Pellet".....I would try eating it with a little milk at first.........
> 
> Let me know how you make out....I have the chicken "Special Care" formula, and I have five members of my family who eat it down like there is no tomorrow !!
> 
> Some of them eat it for breakfast, some for dinner, and some eat it for both breakfast and dinner. Let me know if you try it.....and like it !


Okey Dokey then............. I'll let you know how it turns out. Maybe I should fix the hubby some for breakfast and see how HE likes it. He'll eat almost anything, I on the other hand am a VERY picky eater. I can't give the pigeons milk though, right?
_*I'm kidding!!!!!........don't even answer this.

*_


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

I was thinking that since I'm in Hawaii that I'll be paying more for my pigeon feed. The pet store i get my feed from has 2 types of pigeon mix. They have Pigeon A at $19.99 for a 50lbs. bag or Pigeon B at $17.99 for a 50lbs. bag. I usually pick up the Pigeon A which has a more variety of seed plus the corn looks like the ones you find for making popcorns (smaller variety).


Here's a close resemblance of the mix:









Pigeon B has corn looking like these:


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi ezemaxima, that is a real good picture of Pigeon Feed! The stuff I got yesterday, looks very much like the one in picture A. I just couldn't believe it until I seen it for myself. No doubt that feed is going up, but I couldn't see the hike that came my way, and only one mill ..... What I bought yesterday, has the following in it: CORN, CANDIAN PEAS, MILO, HARD RED WHEAT, OAT GROATS, BUCKHEAT, FLAX, MAPLE PEAS, AUSTRAILIAN PEAS, MILLET. The feed I was getting before didn't have half that stuff in it, and the mill wanted $21.99 for a 40# bag, and I think I bought better feed yesterday. You can actually see the difference! Just two different mills, two completely different feeds. Go figure!


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> $15.00???????????? That's an unheard of price around here anyway. We've been paying $17 to $19 up until about 2 months ago and now we pay $22 to $26 for a bag.


Unfortunately these prices will continue to get worse. I heard a story on Bloomberg the other day that was talking about world-wide wheat shortages and several Asian countries completely shutting down their rice exports in order to protect their domestic supplies. 
Couple that with the fact that the Chairman of the Federal Reserve is -IMHO- insane and has devalued the dollar to the point where that pigeon feed itself is almost worth more than the money that you pay for it..... I think it'll eventually get to the point that I'm just going to feed wild bird seed and just keep the birds as "pets". It really is getting THAT bad.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Okey Dokey then............. I'll let you know how it turns out. Maybe I should fix the hubby some for breakfast and see how HE likes it. He'll eat almost anything, I on the other hand am a VERY picky eater. I can't give the pigeons milk though, right?
> _*I'm kidding!!!!!........don't even answer this.
> 
> *_


 

I was too.... .....five of my "kids"...will never see pigeons the way I do, they are felines of course !!! They love watching, and are never permitted outside, but they seem to know when I am going out to the lofts and surry to the window sills to watch. 

I don't think a very small amount of pelleted cat food will do any harm to an indoor pampered pigeon, but I don't think I would go so far as to make it part of the "A" team diet...just yet.....


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

On the price of feed: Only time will tell, won't it? Mine are all pets anyway. I dont' race, or show. Just our own little pets...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

roxtar said:


> Unfortunately these prices will continue to get worse. I heard a story on Bloomberg the other day that was talking about world-wide wheat shortages and several Asian countries completely shutting down their rice exports in order to protect their domestic supplies.
> Couple that with the fact that the Chairman of the Federal Reserve is -IMHO- insane and has devalued the dollar to the point where that pigeon feed itself is almost worth more than the money that you pay for it..... I think it'll eventually get to the point that I'm just going to feed wild bird seed and just keep the birds as "pets". It really is getting THAT bad.


 I think you are correct in terms of prices of grains going up, the futures markets for grains and such are being driven up to record breaking prices almost every week, and it is only a matter of time before they reach all of us who use grains....as an economics major and ex-banker, I would like to throw my two cents into this, but we want to be mindful of making political statements, statements concerning our country's Federal Reserve Chairman, and responses I could make back, would be viewed as just that. So I think we should reserve these things to the political blogs.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think you are correct in terms of prices of grains going up, the futures markets for grains and such are being driven up to record breaking prices almost every week, and it is only a matter of time before they reach all of us who use grains....as an economics major and ex-banker, I would like to throw my two cents into this, but we want to be mindful of making political statements, statements concerning our country's Federal Reserve Chairman, and responses I could make back, would be viewed as just that. So I think we should reserve these things to the political blogs.


It's already begun to hurt me. I was paying $8 for 50lbs. of popcorn back in Nov. A week ago it cost me almost $13.


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

Does anyone use/mix safflower seed in their feed? If so, what is the benefit?

George


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Avion said:


> Does anyone use/mix safflower seed in their feed? If so, what is the benefit?
> 
> George


I do. Safflower is high in fat and my birds LOVE it. I feed it in place of peanuts most of the time. Number one, I can't always get peanuts and number two, safflower lasts longer than peanuts. I give extra on shipping day. It's a smaller seed too, so isn't as "heavy". These may be the wrong reasons to feed Safflower, but you asked and that's my answer.  
I've also found that if you have a sick bird, Safflower tends to be an easier seed for them to eat as opposed to corn and peas......the bigger seeds.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Avion said:


> Does anyone use/mix safflower seed in their feed? If so, what is the benefit?
> 
> George




I use it in the winter for the added fat and energy.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

we are paying 22.00 for browns supercrack and 23.00 for the european mix.i buy one of each and mix it together,then add some other seeds as needed depending on what im using it for.the prices arent hurting me because i only have 4 pairs of breeders.with 30 birds on double widowhood and a few xtras,thats 40 birds.thats my plan and im sticking to it. course,i have to raise the 30 birds first.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> we are paying 22.00 for browns supercrack and 23.00 for the european mix.i buy one of each and mix it together,then add some other seeds as needed depending on what im using it for.the prices arent hurting me because i only have 4 pairs of breeders.with 30 birds on double widowhood and a few xtras,thats 40 birds.thats my plan and im sticking to it. course,i have to raise the 30 birds first.


You're so funny!! LOL
We can't even get the supercrack any more. I used to feed that to my racers (OB's), but.......what can ya do? 
They man who took the first 9 spots in the combine this past week, (and does that on a consistent basis I might add) feeds wild bird seed with whole corn and safflower mixed in with it. But even wild bird seed has doubled in price. AND, safflowers aren't cheap. Almost a dollar per pound. Either got to deal with it or quit. No way around it.


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

*Quantity*



Lovebirds said:


> I do. Safflower is high in fat and my birds LOVE it. I feed it in place of peanuts most of the time. Number one, I can't always get peanuts and number two, safflower lasts longer than peanuts. I give extra on shipping day. It's a smaller seed too, so isn't as "heavy". These may be the wrong reasons to feed Safflower, but you asked and that's my answer.
> I've also found that if you have a sick bird, Safflower tends to be an easier seed for them to eat as opposed to corn and peas......the bigger seeds.


How often and in what quantity? Do you just mix it with the regular seed of feed it separate?


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think you are correct in terms of prices of grains going up, the futures markets for grains and such are being driven up to record breaking prices almost every week, and it is only a matter of time before they reach all of us who use grains....as an economics major and ex-banker, I would like to throw my two cents into this, but we want to be mindful of making political statements, statements concerning our country's Federal Reserve Chairman, and responses I could make back, would be viewed as just that. So I think we should reserve these things to the political blogs.


Hi, I found out today, that the mills are not posting any grain prices, as they are changing _BY THE HOUR_! No, not kidding. This I found out is going on all over Michigan. The price for corn can change in an hour, and they do. (Yeah, political statements can get ya into trouble!)


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

here in NJ the governor is trying to shut down the ag department can you believe that ?? I mean NJ is called the garden state for god sake, so you wanna talk about why the prices of grain are going up so high so fast .. mm maybe its cuz we have nothing but idoits in the government that havnt got a clue what america is based upon anymore to begin with  what is the world coming to ??? http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/NEWS01/804020370/1006/RSS01


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

*By, george, I think you've got it!* My husband was a grain farmer for over 25 yrs, and he never got what these mills are getting. Heck, teh farmer would be rich if they did! Yeah, I think we need some new blood in our guvment, don't ya think? The grain will go up as long as these idiots are still in office!


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

i think they also need more fiber in their diets lol


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> i think they also need more fiber in their diets lol


I think they are already "FULL" of it, myself!


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

yeah all bound up lol theydont have a clue what america is all about anymore and what was that about freedom again


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> yeah all bound up lol theydont have a clue what america is all about anymore and what was that about freedom again


Well, I remember this: "He who does not learn fro the past, is doomed to repeat it".... Doesn't sound too far off, either. There are just way too may "erie similarities" between what is going on now, and the "Great Depression"..... I remember back in the 70's, the "gas rationing", it was a bear. 

Well, also, it they are all bound up, maybe we should fix 'em some super-charged brownies?!!! That will fix 'em right up!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Hi, I found out today, that the mills are not posting any grain prices, as they are changing _BY THE HOUR_! No, not kidding. This I found out is going on all over Michigan. The price for corn can change in an hour, and they do. (Yeah, political statements can get ya into trouble!)


Actually in the futures markets, where contacts are traded for millions of bushels, the prices of grains and many other commodity items have prices that can change every view seconds. It is only when there are violent swings in the prices, will the end of the distrubution line start adjusting their prices more often. My prediction is fanciers will begin to keep fewer pigeons as the price of feed rises.....don't know if we are anywhere near a top, or if we will undergo another huge long term rise in commodity prices of all types. We now have our grains tied into fuels, and how high can oil go ? I figure we all can adjust at the current levels, the danger is if buying panick would set in. We were in a housing bubble...now we starting what appears to be a commodity bubble. Could get a little hairy. In extreme cases, there could be runs on supermakets.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Well, also, it they are all bound up, maybe we should fix 'em some super-charged brownies?!!! That will fix 'em right up!



Depends who how you make them. I had some funny tasting brownies when I came home from the war. After I ate some of them we started walking through the woods.....and the next thing I knew, I was back in Nam on patrol. And I was talking to people who turned out not to be there...I thought that was too spooky to be fun....so I never ate them again !


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

someday we might have to have open loft pigeons just to keep afloat of all that feeding , they would have to forage for themselves and we could only hope that the hawk preditation wouldnt wipe us out if that occured .. but thats just one theory if it really got that bad but it could be a possibility someday but again losses would be very high or your pigeons would have to evolve to be predatory masters of their enviroment .. ok maybe Im just thinking to far ahead of myself lol


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, I understand that, but what I was told today, is really scary, because this particular mill, had posted that they will NOT post any grain prices. Heck, already, there isn't any wheat to be had here at any of the mills. My husband said he never in all his years ever seen that happen. 
I don't have but a few birds, but my hens are feeding young now, but I have a feeling they will be on woodies for the next round or two. I don't race or show anyway.  Yes, it is scary.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

I prefer chocolate chip cookies myself but hey who am I to argue with brownies


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Snowbird Sue said:


> *...... Yeah, I think we need some new blood in our guvment, don't ya think? The grain will go up as long as these idiots are still in office! *


*

No, I don't think it works that way, too big. *


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Depends who how you make them. I had some funny tasting brownies when I came home from the war. After I ate some of them we started walking through the woods.....and the next thing I knew, I was back in Nam on patrol. And I was talking to people who turned out not to be there...I thought that was too spooky to be fun....so I never ate them again !


Not _that_ kind of brownies!!!  I was speaking of the nice chocolatey ones with X-Lax for our polititins that are all bound up!!!!! Good to see you made it back from Nam.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I prefer chocolate chip cookies myself but hey who am I to argue with brownies


Oh, LokotaLoft, if I were you, I'd stick with the cookies!


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

mmm cookies , thats my weakness just ask anyone at the deli lol they talk to me you know


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> mmm cookies , thats my weakness just ask anyone at the deli lol they talk to me you know


LOL! Your real name isn't Homer, is it? I baked cookies all winter, and put them in the freezer, because I have some contractors coming to do some work on my house this summer, and I want to be sure to feed them good!


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Avion said:


> How often and in what quantity? Do you just mix it with the regular seed of feed it separate?



I haven't raced yet but plan to use it. Here is some info fat 31.6%, carbs 16%, protein 15.6%.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Not _that_ kind of brownies!!!  I was speaking of the nice chocolatey ones with X-Lax for our polititins that are all bound up!!!!! Good to see you made it back from Nam.


Oh.....I see now.....maybe those old kind would help them see things from a different perspective  Thankyou...although some would argue that I left part of myself there......


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

hmm the name homer is kinda ironic now isnt it lol still cookies are my weakness and homers is donuts.. pretty close but I will stick with the cookies even thou Im tryin to cut back for the sake of my cookie gut hahaha


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ohiogsp said:


> I haven't raced yet but plan to use it. Here is some info fat 31.6%, carbs 16%, protein 15.6%.


If you like this mix, then go ahead and use it.......Just my thought, but the fat of 31.6% is way off the charts...and the protein is a little high. I think the carbs should be higher....but I am not use to seeing the % of carbs listed, so I may be a bit off.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

makes me wanna run outside and look at my fat% hmm maybe i just will do that lol cuz im curious


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2008)

ok my fat is reading at 4.5% fat and I dont have carbs listed either


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LokotaLoft said:


> ok my fat is reading at 4.5% fat and I dont have carbs listed either


Most of the time...I see fat ranges of from 2 to 6%, protein can range from 11 to 17%, I have even heard of guys feeding ProManna pellets of 25% protein....now if you were feeding 15% protein and 15% fat....what would the other 70% be ?


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Fiber? lol


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Here's a call for any farmers out there---since your not getting any more for your grains start a local farmers market and sell some of your crop so much per hundred weight, you would get more for it selling direct to the public per pound and we would also receive a better deal, a win win situation, of course it will never happen but who knows!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*OT: Just A Quick Interruption .. Best Chocolate Chip Cookies Ever!*

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=253496&postcount=2

OK .. now back on topic everyone!  

Terry


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Here is what I found out:

For the first time in history, the elevator is no longer posting grain prices on an hourly basis, Manager Mike Dick announced.

"It's so erratic. Corn can go up 20 cents one hour and go down 20 cents within 20 minutes," Mr. Dick said. "I've been here since 1971, and I've never seen some like this. We just can't guarantee prices for an hour any longer."

Complicating matters are fertilizer prices that have doubled since last spring. Causing the climb is a worldwide demand for fertilizer from countries such as China and India that want to become more self-sufficient. The demand is creating a severe shortage of fertilizer for growers in the United States, Mr. Dick said.

With the price of 28 percent nitrogen approaching $400 a ton and potash costing more than $560 a ton, growers can see their profits being whittled away by higher expenses. Mr. Dick advised them to investigate their costs and talk with a lender before deciding what to plant next year. They may want to forgo planting corn, which requires more fertilizer than soybeans or wheat. 


The farmers can't hardly afford the fertilizer now. Back when my husband was farming, the nitrogen was $80.00 a ton. It just doesn't make any sense to charge these kind of prices at all. The only farmers that will be planting, will be the big guys. the little farmer won't have a chance with these kinds of prices, and then to top that off with having to be at the mercy of the weather, well, that will knock the little guy right off the map. See what I mean? It is scary.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

ohiogsp said:


> I haven't raced yet but plan to use it. Here is some info fat 31.6%, carbs 16%, protein 15.6%.



It was late when I posted this  . This is the percentages for safflower only. It was being talked about as adding more before a race. Sorry about that.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

My feed that I am using is 15%protein, 3% fat, and 5% fiber. Here is what it looks like and I am paying 11.25 a bag  Looks like I am getting one heck of a deal.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi ohiogsp! YES, you sure did get a heck of a deal! I hope you stocked up. It looks a lot like what I just bought, and here is my specs: 15% Protein, 3% Fat, 5% Fiber. It is 10 X better than what I was feeding! Congrats on such a good price!


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## aarongreen123 (Jan 26, 2005)

*won't eat the pellets*

i have been trying mixing some layer pellets with whole kernal corn and having horrible luck. they wont' touch the pellets, not much anyway. they will eat every kernal of corn, then starve for days and still not touch the pellets. whats up with this? i'm switching back to plain old pigeon feed with grit.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

aarongreen123 said:


> i have been trying mixing some layer pellets with whole kernal corn and having horrible luck. they wont' touch the pellets, not much anyway. they will eat every kernal of corn, then starve for days and still not touch the pellets. whats up with this? * i'm switching back to plain old pigeon feed with grit.*


I could never get mine to eat the stuff either. Good idea.


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## rock (Jun 29, 2007)

ohiogsp said:


> My feed that I am using is 15%protein, 3% fat, and 5% fiber. Here is what it looks like and I am paying 11.25 a bag  Looks like I am getting one heck of a deal.


ohiogsp, is that Masserat (spelling?) feed? If so where do you get it for that price? I am thinking right from masserat as you are near the border. I been paying 21$ for Browns. Thanks, Jim


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Yep, Masserants feed. Ed's with corn to be exact. I think thier price will be going up soon but I just got 3000lbs last week.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

you are one smart cookie , I always buy my feed in bulk but I dread the next time I go back to the feed store to see what the prices are at that week  worst part is in summer in the hot months when buying in bulk means moths gonna get you if they can oii


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> worst part is in summer in the hot months when buying in bulk means moths gonna get you if they can oii


Lucky for you... Here in Hawaii... my worst problem are ants... I keep my feed in plastic containers that are sealed with a rubber but still they find ways to get in there. Also my loft are infested by them. They seem to eat anything... I've lost a new hatched baby once to them. Also I've seen them foraging around my pigeons poops too.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

aarongreen123 said:


> i have been trying mixing some layer pellets with whole kernal corn and having horrible luck. they wont' touch the pellets, not much anyway. they will eat every kernal of corn, then starve for days and still not touch the pellets. whats up with this? i'm switching back to plain old pigeon feed with grit.


Did you first try and teach them to eat the pellets, yea i know it's a lot of work but you have to almost show them that it is food, I hand fed many birds pellets until they would take them on their own, since the pigeon pellets are much longer than the chicken type I had to place the pellet in their beak until they got used to taking them, also no regular feed for a while until you see them taking the pellets, once they take to the pellets then just mix in with feed, however if left to their own choice they will always prefer seed over pellets IMHO!


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

How long do you let the feed set in the feeder? I only have one breeding pair at this time and there are certain seeds, they do not eat. Do you leave the feed in the feeder 24/7, feed twice a day or just throw it away and put more feed in the feeder? What is the norm?

George


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Avion said:


> How long do you let the feed set in the feeder? I only have one breeding pair at this time and there are certain seeds, they do not eat. Do you leave the feed in the feeder 24/7, feed twice a day or just throw it away and put more feed in the feeder? What is the norm?
> 
> George


When I'm feeding just birds. No nesting or raising babies or flying, etc........I give them (2 birds) a bowl with about 2 ounces of feed every day. You'll find that they'll eat more of the different seeds that way if they are hungry enough. Then, if anything from those 2 ounces is left, I dump it and give them 2 more ounces. Of course in colder weather I give them a little more.


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