# Breeding a pigeon with a bull eye.



## Margarret

One of a pair I bred this spring has a single bull eye. The other one is pearl consistant with the breed. I'm presuming this is a genetic thing. Otherwise she/he is a good looking bird. I can't show her, as the eye disqualifies her, but would love to breed her in the future as she is carrying a resessive red gene. Her sibling is a red teager. Has anyone had experience with bull eyes when breeding? Oddly, when in the light her bull eye is deep blue.

Margarret


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## flitsnowzoom

Hi Margarret, someone about 6 weeks ago had a thread about bull's eyes. Whatever a bull's eye is. 
I'd love to see a picture.


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## Clarkey-1990

Bull eye or odd eye is basically a red eye. Most white pigeons have two bull eyes but they ere expected to as its in the colour. It can be genetic or can equally happen by chance. I often breed with odd eyes with no problems but dont be suprised to get one two or three generations later. If its a good bird breed from it.


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## Margarret

Fitzsnowzoom,

My bird's bull eye looks black from a distance. Up close you can see that the iris is a dark grey blue. Her other eye has a pearl colored iris.

I'll try to get a picture posted.

Margarret


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## Margarret

Clarkey-1990

Thank you so much for the information on the bull eye. I've got a book on pigeon genetics, but it has no information on this factor. 
She is a very young bird at this time and would be a mismark for show, but her lines are good and she carries the red color factor. She is mostly white with the black teager markings and some brown/red flecks. Both parents are black and white but her full sibling is a beautiful red teager. I'm guessing the white is where the bull eye is linked genetically. I will breed her next year then and see if I can get that red to pop up.

Margarret


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## george simon

*THE PIGEON by LEVI*

Hi MARGARRET, I found in the book "THE PIGEON" by LEVI on page 324 paragraphs 550 thru 555a information on eye color. "Bull Eye--In bull eye, the black color is due to the absence of pigment on the anterior surface of the iris.The delicacy and translucency of the iris tissues allow the posterior pigmented layer of the iris (uvea)to shine through.This gives the appearance of blackness .The examination of a bull eye in a living bird, with a hand lens and a good light shows a red appearance like a ruddy glow covering the iris.This is due to small capillary blood vessels and not to the presence of pigment cells. Bull eye is,therefore,characterized by the absolute lack of any pigment upon the outer surface of the iris.Vecchi(1937) also demonstrated this fact" Yes it is genetic and is in some way conected to the white coloration in birds.Those that have white feathering on the head are prone to having bull eyes. .GEORGE


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## Margarret

George,

Thank you so much for looking that up. That sounds like an excellent reference book. I'll put it on my Santa list this year.

Margarret


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## Maggie-NC

We have a beautiful feral, Mr. Humphries, with a bull's eye. He is basically white but with large black splotches or markings on his body. Wonder how he got the bull's eye?


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## abisai

Genetically, some pigeons have naturally white eyes no matter the color of their plumage , like flights or tipplers, etc. Others like homers, ferrals, etc have dark eyes. For as long as I can remember the bull eye bird is that one whose eyes are supossed to be both white, but wind up with a dark (bull) eye. And then again you have all kind of colored eyes in between - yellow, dark /light, etc. Far as I know it doesn't bother the bird any.


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## Maggie-NC

Thanks for the good info.


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## re lee

Margarret said:


> Clarkey-1990
> 
> Thank you so much for the information on the bull eye. I've got a book on pigeon genetics, but it has no information on this factor.
> She is a very young bird at this time and would be a mismark for show, but her lines are good and she carries the red color factor. She is mostly white with the black teager markings and some brown/red flecks. Both parents are black and white but her full sibling is a beautiful red teager. I'm guessing the white is where the bull eye is linked genetically. I will breed her next year then and see if I can get that red to pop up.
> 
> Margarret


Do you have a red cock as hens if there color does not show do not pass down a masked color. BUT cocks do. Far as the bull eye. You want to put the bird over on a bird known not to carry it. And you will still get a chance of throwing the eye color agin. Far as keeping for the color Better chance is with a cock bird. NOw how good is this bird I mean besides the eye is the qulitry there that brings it into the breeding program.
What breed are we talking about


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## Margarret

re lee,

The breed is Domestic Show Flight. No, I don't have a red cock. This bird has really nice lines. It's father just took 2nd place in the San Diego County fair in his class. I don't know if it is a cock or a hen at this point in time. It's sibling is the red teager that surprised me. So if I'm following you right, if this is a hen and shows no red anywhere in it's feathers, it won't have the red gene to pass on. But if it is a cock, it could have a hidden red gene?

Margarret


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## re lee

Margarret said:


> re lee,
> 
> The breed is Domestic Show Flight. No, I don't have a red cock. This bird has really nice lines. It's father just took 2nd place in the San Diego County fair in his class. I don't know if it is a cock or a hen at this point in time. It's sibling is the red teager that surprised me. So if I'm following you right, if this is a hen and shows no red anywhere in it's feathers, it won't have the red gene to pass on. But if it is a cock, it could have a hidden red gene?
> 
> Margarret


 Right the cock will be split for the red. So if they are flight are there normal eye color pearled or yellow eyed. If this bird is a hen Then its father is masking the red


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## george simon

Margarret said:


> Clarkey-1990
> 
> Thank you so much for the information on the bull eye. I've got a book on pigeon genetics, but it has no information on this factor.
> She is a very young bird at this time and would be a mismark for show, but her lines are good and she carries the red color factor. She is mostly white with the black teager markings and some brown/red flecks. Both parents are black and white but her full sibling is a beautiful red teager. I'm guessing the white is where the bull eye is linked genetically. I will breed her next year then and see if I can get that red to pop up.
> 
> Margarret


 Margarret, If this bird is a hen she can not be split for color. That is to say she can only throw the color that you see,only cocks can be split for color.Now having said that I will say that this bird may be in fact be a grizzle as I understand it grizzle was used to create TEAGER'S (tigers) Margarret take a good look at the colored feathers if the feather seens to be like half red and white or black and white this can be seen in grizzle birds.I would like to see that bird because i think that it may be a grizzle,one other thing grizzle is realy a factor that affects color and realy not a color.there only three basic colors red,blue/black,and brown there many factors that have an affect on the basic colors. .GEORGE


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## Margarret

George,

I think you are right. The mother of the bird had only a couple of colored feathers, but they were a mix of white, black, brown and red all on the same feather. I'm going to have to take a closer look at the father and the chicks. I'll get some pictures later today if I have time.

Margarret


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## Margarret

Flitsnowzoom,

Here are some pictures showing a bull eye. As you can see, one side of this bird shows a white rim (pearl)around the pupil and the other eye just looks blackish all over.

Margarret


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## Margarret

George,

Here are pictures of the feathers of the parent birds. The solid white bird(hen) has just a few of these rusty brown small feathers, maybe six altogether on her head an wings. 
The other (cock) has some rusty edges to some of his wing coverts. You have to look really close to see them.
The next picture is their offspring, the white one is the one with the bull eye. I can't find any red on this bird at all. I don't know the sex of these youngsters yet. The last picture is the cockbird with the two youngsters.

I have trouble telling red from dun sometimes. I have a hen that was described as dun when I got her, but she sure looks red to me. Since I know this one cockbird

has a red gene, I'm thinking of pairing them next year. I really would love to get some more reds.


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## Margarret

Ran out of space. This is the cockbird with the two youngsters.


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## flitsnowzoom

Lovely birds. Are any of them your prize-winners?


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## Maggie-NC

Wow Margarret, they are beautiful. The two youngsters are really lookers.


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## Margarret

From FSZ: Are any of them your prize-winners?

Yes, the father of the two little ones took second in his class. The youngsters are just four months old.

Margarret


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## re lee

Take a hen raised from the father pair that hen back to the father You should get more red in the young .Now the cocks raised will spread the color for you. The hens can be used to split the color and establish a base For color breeding. Keep records on your breeding to help you set the color You will notice some bronzing in the black at times this would be the red factor I would not call this a grizzle in the picture I saw. Be watchful on your eye color as you breed this bird . Agin records help. This may be a fault from some past out breeding or from unkown inbreeding or just to tight of inbreeding. Not knowing your birds No one can say for sure If its a fault you might consider not using this bird as it may strenghen that fault. Besides your cock has the color base you are wanting to produce.


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## Margarret

re lee,

Thank you for your advice. It is much appreciated. These are my first youngsters from this pair. I do keep notes on all my birds. Hatch dates, immunizations, who is paired with who, even to when they lay, which may be a bit obsessive, but as I only have a small loft, I can do that. 

Margarret


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