# Strange disease spreading among my flock...Please help



## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

I have fed wild pigeons for many years, but this is the first time I notice birds with this disease. It is spreading rather quickly, and kill the infected bird within a week....See if any experts can help....

(I am not good at English....I will try my best to illustrate the situation. I tried uploading a video but it does not work)

Three weeks ago, I noticed one brown pigeon was missing...At first, I didnt think it was a big matter because some birds like to vanish for 1 or 2 day and then appear again....4 days later, he showed up again. I was so delighted to see him back because 4 day missing could mean trouble. But when I looked at him closely, he had trouble eating.... 

*His head kept shaking laterally when trying to eat. His neck could not bend down enough to reach the ground and pick up the seeds. Even he barely grabbed a seed, his head was still shaking vigorously, so his beak could not get hold of the seed firmly, and thus lost hold of it. Or his head would suddenly bounce upwards, and threw the food into the air. It is as if he was very hungry and eager to eat, he could not coordinate his movement so failed to eat any.... * 

That brown pigeon showed up for the next 2 days, still unable to eat any. I thought of catching him and forcing food into his mouth, but did not successfully catch him as he could still fly. 2 days later, he vanished and had not been seen till now.

Similar symptoms then appeared in other pigeons. The situation has further worsened. Each day 1 to 3 pigeons contract this unknown disease, with different degree of difficulty eating. During every feeding these patients could barely eat any or only one or two pieces of seeds. The sick birds will vanish 2 to 7 days after they show these symptoms. There used to be 200 healthy birds in my flock, but now the flock size has shrunken to around 130-140 according to my estimation.... ANY IDEA


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Maybe better to summarize the symptoms:

1. Head shaking when walking. (not the normal way of shaking)
2. Neck cannot bend down enough for beak to reach the ground. 
3. Beak grabs hold of the food, but head keeps shaking too vigorously and drops the food.
4. Head bounces upwards suddenly, throwing food into air.
5. Stumble and fall during walking (can get up by itself)
6. Cannot control direction when taking off (bumps into fence, wall, plant, my leg)
7. Clumsy when landing
8. But can fly properly except taking off and landing

My attempt:

1. Since their major constraint is their beak cannot touch the ground, seeds can never be eaten because they are too small and round. They will roll away easily. Instead I feed bread. Small slices are not suitable since their neck cannot bend to such a low elevation. Large slices are not suitable because they cannot swallow. I wet and tear the bread into middle, rectangular size, with a certain height so they can touch the bread without much bending. This seems successful to a certain extent. The sick birds can eat some bread at least.


2. I caught one and gave her to a pigeon friend of mine to take care. (My mum never allows me to take pigeons home) My friend told me that she put the seeds on a bowl. The top layer of the seeds is about the 1.5 cm lower than the pigeon beak. So with minimal bending, the pigeon can touch the seeds and eat. It works....


Limitation...

1. Even my plan of feeding them "tall" bread can substitute grains, which can give the sick birds a few chances to eat, the sick birds still vanish days after symptoms appear. 

2. The idea of using bowl or other objects to lift the elevation of food wont apply in anywhere except I take all the sick birds to my friends home. In Hong Kong, feeding is illegal. I can only pour food on the ground swiftly, hide myself and peek. I cannot use bowls which are very conspicuous and make the process slower.

Questions....

1. Is it due to some problem inside the pigeon body...If yes, even if the sick bird manages to eat at first, as the sickness worsens, it will still die????? As from my observation some of the sick birds which are relatively able to coordinate their movement and eat ample food, I thought they will survive but still they vanished after struggling for a week or so.....Not to mention those suffering seriously and can hardly eat....

2. For those that are very serious, even they dont die of the sickness, they still die of starvation because they cannot intake any food....not even one grain

3. Just my wild guess....maybe it is like apoplexy of human, which results in difficulty in coordination of the body movement... Wings, neck, eyesight of the sick birds seem gone wrong...

4. I do not rule out the possibility of being poisoned. HK people are very hostile towards pigeons. My flock is in a site near shopping malls and public residential buildings. The effect of some poison may be insidious and cumulative instead of immediate. Pigeons may not die instantly once eaten the poison, but body functions got destroyed gradually and got killed eventually....Hopefully this is not the case? I have patrolled the site more frequently but hardly see trace of poison 

5. And most important of all, any fellows have come across poor pigeons with similar symptoms? What actually is the cause? Is it possible to cure? What is the survival rate of the troubled birds? Any preventive measures? 

Thanks a lot....I really want to save my beloved flock.. I have fed them for five years and they use to be very healthy and normal. Suddenly such unknown disease can break out in massive scale and take away so many lives in a month....Grateful for replies


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

What you have described so well here:



> 1. Head shaking when walking. (not the normal way of shaking)
> 2. Neck cannot bend down enough for beak to reach the ground.
> 3. Beak grabs hold of the food, but head keeps shaking too vigorously and drops the food.
> 4. Head bounces upwards suddenly, throwing food into air.
> ...


matches symptoms of PMV (Paramyxovirosis), of which we here have seen quite a lot. Although the virus (at least,the strain we encounter) is not of itself generally fatal, birds become easy targets for predators or simply cannot eat/drink and die from starvation and dehydration.

In a loft, it is possible to give vaccination against the virus, but there is no effective medication for birds that have it. We can only give them supportive care, in isolation, to ensure they get food and water (by hand feeding if necessary) and some vitamin supplement. The virus runs its course in six weeks from when they became infected, but they can be left with some of the neurological symptoms you describe. Some recover flight, some never do, and there can be a recurrence of some symptoms after an apparent recovery (months or even years later) although they do not by then have the actual virus.

We have over thirty pigeons in our rescue aviary who had PMV at some time. 

We have a resource section on the illness here:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f107/pigeon-paramyxovirus-aka-pmv-ppmv-pmv1-pigeon-12250.html


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Yes -- this sounds exactly like PMV  

Your English is wonderful, by the way. You did a great job describing this!


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Thank you for all of your reply.

Now this wave of disease seems to be over. I estimate at least 20 birds are killed. From the source, it states that PMV normally has a mortality of 10%. But my case is highly fatal and mortality reaches >95%. I have never seen my birds contracting PMV recover. They just got trouble eating, flying, and then vanish days after they first showed the symptom.

I want to learn a lesson from the event so next time PMV outbreaks again, I know what to help.

I am not resourceful at all. I neither have the source nor money to purchase the medicines mentioned to cure PMV. 

What at most I can do is to catch the infected birds, hand feed them and then release. If I see the same bird the next day, I do the same, until the day that they do not show up anymore. But as the source states, catching them unnecessarily thrills the bird and their sickness deteriorates! 

Then I caught 3 PMV pigeons and gave them to a friend. She puts grains in a bowl so that the birds can pick and eat. They have been living in the home of my friend for 1 month, still alive, but the symptoms still persist.

It is not feasible for me to take pigeons home. My mum deeply resents pigeons. And my friend cannot accommodate too many. She already has 2, plus the new 3. Also her flat is not spacious for her to practice isolation. Since PMV is highly infectious, we worry that the 3 PMV bird will shed the virus to the 2 PMV-free bird. Luckily, this has not realized up till now.

My question is that.... Given my time, resource and ability at this moment, what I at most can do is to feed the flock everyday, give them plenty of food and ample water. ...But how can I prevent the disease from recurrence? Can I add any ingredients into the food that can help, other than medicines or vaccines? I surely cannot afford these, and there is hardly any source to purchase these in Hong Kong.

My other question is that, when I feed the flock, the PMV birds often get hold of the food with their beak, shake their head, and then drop the food....This piece of food, contaminated by the sick bird saliva, is then eaten by other healthy bird. Are PMV viruses transmitted by saliva or only by feces? Will this provide a source to transmit the disease??? If yes, how can I prevent?

The only thing I can think of is eradicating all the PMV birds, so that the virus got eradicated as well. If there is not even one single PMV bird in the flock, then the spread of the disease will be halted. After I handed the last 3 PMV birds to my friend, I have not noticed new members contracting PMV anymore. Does this mean that the sooner I take away all the PMV birds, the sooner I can stop the disease; the later I do so, the more birds are victimized? 

My last question is, I have been feeding wild pigeons for almost 10 years in Hong Kong, but PMV is very new to me. Not until I saw the reply, I didnt know that PMV is such a commonplace among pigeons. In the past 10 years I have come across numerous sick birds, but this is the fist time I see PMV pigeons. Hong Kong pigeons most suffer from the sickness with swollen hair, smelly sharp green feces and loss of ability to fly. Is something going wrong that causes the birds that used to be insulated from PMV got contracted with such terrible disease? Any explanation? Weather? (this year is just like normal years, not too cold or hot) Food and water? I really want to prevent the outbreak of PMV. Last wave has already claimed many lives in my beloved flock.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I will try to answer your points as you raised them:

Thank you for all of your reply.

Now this wave of disease seems to be over. I estimate at least 20 birds are killed. From the source, it states that PMV normally has a mortality of 10%. But my case is highly fatal and mortality reaches >95%. I have never seen my birds contracting PMV recover. They just got trouble eating, flying, and then vanish days after they first showed the symptom.

*When they vanish, it will probably be because they have not the ability to eat and drink and the to fly back to where you feed them. Also, of course, they can more easily be caught by predators, fly into traffic or buildings.*

I want to learn a lesson from the event so next time PMV outbreaks again, I know what to help.

I am not resourceful at all. I neither have the source nor money to purchase the medicines mentioned to cure PMV. 

What at most I can do is to catch the infected birds, hand feed them and then release. If I see the same bird the next day, I do the same, until the day that they do not show up anymore. But as the source states, catching them unnecessarily thrills the bird and their sickness deteriorates!

*Unfortunately, they need to be taken into a safe place and looked after. If you feed them and release them, they may well not make it back to you (see above comments). 
*
Then I caught 3 PMV pigeons and gave them to a friend. She puts grains in a bowl so that the birds can pick and eat. They have been living in the home of my friend for 1 month, still alive, but the symptoms still persist.

*The virus takes six weeks to run its course, from the time they became infected. Also, with some birds some of the symptoms can remain even though they are no longer infected. PMV can cause permanent problems in the nervous system. That does not always happen, of course, but we have some who will be unlikely to fly again and/or still show some neck-twisting signs, after months or years.*

It is not feasible for me to take pigeons home. My mum deeply resents pigeons. And my friend cannot accommodate too many. She already has 2, plus the new 3. Also her flat is not spacious for her to practice isolation. Since PMV is highly infectious, we worry that the 3 PMV bird will shed the virus to the 2 PMV-free bird. Luckily, this has not realized up till now.

My question is that.... Given my time, resource and ability at this moment, what I at most can do is to feed the flock everyday, give them plenty of food and ample water. ...But how can I prevent the disease from recurrence? Can I add any ingredients into the food that can help, other than medicines or vaccines? I surely cannot afford these, and there is hardly any source to purchase these in Hong Kong.

*There is nothing except for vaccine which can prevent the illness. Obviously good food and water would help their system remain strong and, one hopes, avoid getting other illnesses which can take advantage of a bird already suffering PMV.*

My other question is that, when I feed the flock, the PMV birds often get hold of the food with their beak, shake their head, and then drop the food....This piece of food, contaminated by the sick bird saliva, is then eaten by other healthy bird. Are PMV viruses transmitted by saliva or only by feces? Will this provide a source to transmit the disease??? If yes, how can I prevent?

*The virus can be transmitted by food & water, and also by being in close contact with an already sick bird.*

The only thing I can think of is eradicating all the PMV birds, so that the virus got eradicated as well. If there is not even one single PMV bird in the flock, then the spread of the disease will be halted. After I handed the last 3 PMV birds to my friend, I have not noticed new members contracting PMV anymore. Does this mean that the sooner I take away all the PMV birds, the sooner I can stop the disease; the later I do so, the more birds are victimized? 

*I would not do that. The birds can just as easily pass the virus onto others where they roost or nest as where you feed them, so there is a good chance there will be sick birds you do not even see every day. They are infectious usually before we see any symptoms.*

My last question is, I have been feeding wild pigeons for almost 10 years in Hong Kong, but PMV is very new to me. Not until I saw the reply, I didnt know that PMV is such a commonplace among pigeons. In the past 10 years I have come across numerous sick birds, but this is the fist time I see PMV pigeons. Hong Kong pigeons most suffer from the sickness with swollen hair, smelly sharp green feces and loss of ability to fly. Is something going wrong that causes the birds that used to be insulated from PMV got contracted with such terrible disease? Any explanation? Weather? (this year is just like normal years, not too cold or hot) Food and water? I really want to prevent the outbreak of PMV. Last wave has already claimed many lives in my beloved flock. 

*All it takes is for maybe a racing pigeon which got the illness somewhere else to drop out and come in contact with some of your flock. I don't say that is what will have happened, but just illustrating how easy it is. We used to see most (but not all) PMV in the warmer and more humid months of summer/fall. But, the virus can remain in the environment (like a nesting place) for quite a time after a pigeon has been there.*


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't know much about PMV virus in Hong Kong, so its interesting hearing your reports, though very sad I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm about to go through it too,and I'm really stressed about it.

PMV comes in many strains. Here in Australia, we have a new strain of PMV virus from the middle east, that is spreading from state to state via the pigeon racing community. The government reports that mortality is around 98% , and that this can be partly due to the fact that its new here. Apparently its much harder on populations where the virus has never been encountered.

I can only suggest that you try to find a vet or pigeon club who can give you the vaccine. Even with PMV being in your flock, some birds will not have it yet and could benefit from the vaccine.

I've vaccinated many birds form my wild flock this week, it does feel good to something small to help. Poor guys, they are really beautiful natured birds and don't deserve to suffer like this.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> I don't know much about PMV virus in Hong Kong, so its interesting hearing your reports, though very sad I'm sorry you're going through this. *I'm about to go through it too,and I'm really stressed about it.*
> PMV comes in many strains. Here in Australia, we have a new strain of PMV virus from the middle east, that is spreading from state to state via the pigeon racing community. The government reports that mortality is around 98% , and that this can be partly due to the fact that its new here. Apparently its much harder on populations where the virus has never been encountered.
> 
> I can only suggest that you try to find a vet or pigeon club who can give you the vaccine. Even with PMV being in your flock, some birds will not have it yet and could benefit from the vaccine.
> ...


Its sad to hear that, PMV is really a catastrophe for the poor birds

I guess nature has its own ways of dealing with the population, you cant really help it


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Pijlover! Sorry I didn't see your post before today- thanks heaps for your support.

I'm trying to toughen up in preparation for all the deaths, I don't know how I'm going to cope with this emotioanlly. I've never been through something like this, with so many birds dying around me, and not having the resources to care for 200-300 dying ferals.

In the long term, I'm hoping that the ones I vaccinate will have a little immunity in the long term. And maybe some will have strong immune systems. But 98% mortality in flocks elsewhere in Australia doesn't' encourage me.

I have vaccinated around 30 pigeons, and I have to wait another month for more vaccine.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Thank you for all of your generous replies. Up till now there have not been new PMV cases. And hopefully, will not visit HK pigeons again...


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> Hey Pijlover! Sorry I didn't see your post before today- thanks heaps for your support.
> 
> I'm trying to toughen up in preparation for all the deaths, I don't know how I'm going to cope with this emotioanlly. I've never been through something like this, with so many birds dying around me, and not having the resources to care for 200-300 dying ferals.
> 
> ...


Hope that pigeons in Australia can make it through~ and thank you for devoting your effort caring the sick birds~ you have done marvellous job to help them~


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That's great news, I am glad that it hasn't progressed! Hopefully thats it for now.

Maybe you're right, that getting the sick birds out of the population ASAP can make a lot of difference. I'll be trying that for sure, it worked for whitetail pretty well it seems.

Its rough here- I'm down to last amount of vaccine I can spare for wild birds, the rest is for my own pigeons. I don't like choosing between one bird and another, it makes me feel very sad and anxious for them  Mostly I'm choosing them based on whether I can catch them, whether they are mated to someone already vaccinated, that sort of thing...but so many birds are still vulnerable, I hate it.

Pigeons are such sweet, wonderful birds. I never thought they would become such a big part of my life like this.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Yesterday I found a young pigeon suffering from PMV again...This time not my flock, but the largest flock in Hong Kong in an urban park. The park is very far away, at least 20 km from my flock, so possibility of the PMV viruses transmitting from my flock to the park can be ruled out. I am worried. It is winter now and the pigeons may get weaker, more vulnerable to the disease. In addition, this large flock in the urban park (>450) use to be generally weaker with several other prevalent diseases, such as eye inflammation and the very common disease that makes the pigeons appear fluffy and unable to fly. (what's that disease known as?) I am worried that this will accelerate PMV spreading, given that there are already many sick birds with weak immunity within the flock. I once considered taking the PMV pigeon away to eradicate the virus source. I hesitated, then gave up, because ytd I was in a hurry and had no time to hand the bird to my friend. Also, my friend is already caring for 3 PMV and I don't want to make her overburdened. I dunno if I have made a wrong decision.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

pmv is a horrible sickness


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## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

I kept a pigeon with PMV in a pet carrier and put food and water in there. It recovered and was normal after about a month. While in the carrier it made a mess flipping its food all over which required continual clean up.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Today PMV revisited my flock again. I spotted one black pigeon(rather old in age) shaking his head vigorously when eating and failed picking up any grains. Very worried....


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Eventually among the 3 PMV pigeons given to my friend to take care of, 1 passed away after 2 week. One recovered (at least all symptoms disappear and was free to drink and eat) 2 weeks ago. She is a black one. She was released 1 week ago and now shows up on daily feeding. The third one is still kept in my friend place, not ready for release yet.


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