# Tippler bronze confusion



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Why does bronze have to be some complicated? So i want to make a solid tippler bronze in my birds. Now heres my confusion. How do i do it? By taking a self rec red and breeding it to a bronze mottle? That would seem to make since. Theres only 3 types of tippler bronzes i have seen. Mottle and self. Im wonder on how you make the self. Do you need to cross the bronze mottle with a t pattern rec red? What about a spread red? I was reading an article i couldn't really understand it though that well. Some parts i get others parts are way over my head.

But it said 

from http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/56633/1/OP194.pdf


> Tippler bronze offers some paradoxical characteristics:
> although the reductors responsible for its produeti011 seem
> primarily to attack clumped pigment, yet no one has ever seen
> this color in the clumped phase.


So it my understanding that pattern doesn't matter? I have red and a black het rec red i can cross to a bronze mottle.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Pattern does matter here. Tippler bronze birds (also called Schoorsteenvegers) breed T-patterns when mated to blue bar (I posted a link to an article about these bronzes before, and cannot seem to find it again). These birds are very probably NOT spread.

I think that these birds are K//K V//V CT//? E+//e at least, if I remember correctly.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

your going to have to break that down to me. So in order to get an non mottle one i would have to have a t pattern RR or a t pattern split for RR?


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I would say mate a mottled bronze one (if you have it) to a recessive red for a start, you could always add the T-pattern later if need be.

I will assume mottle is Tiger grizzle (GT)

K//K V//V CT//? E+//e GT//gt+ x k//k v+//v+ ?//? e//e gt+//gt+
===> K//k V//v CT//? E+//e GT//gt+12.5%
===> K//k V//v CT//? E+//e gt+//gt+12.5%
===> K//k V//v CT//? e//e GT//g+ 12.5%
===> K//k V//v CT//? e//e gt+//gt+ 12.5%
===> K//k V//v ?//? E+//e GT//g+ 12.5%
===> K//k V//v ?//? E+//e gt+//gt+ 12.5%
===> K//k V//v ?//? e//e GT//g+ 12.5%
===> K//k V//v ?//? e//e gt+//gt+ 12.5%

A quick and rough example, sorry, but I am in a bit of a rush to get some work done.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Well, i have the bronze mottled with a rec red mottle right now. I only have one self RR which is not old enough to breed, along with one grizzle or something RY

I dont know the genetic symbols there. Anyways do RR express short down in the nest?
cock









hen

















i dont know if this yellow is an grizzle or a splash. I think its just a piebald


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