# Two hens and a cock?



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Just a quick question this time - will two hens get along with a cock in the same cage? Or will one hen pair up with the cock and then the pair picks on the other hen?

Just wondering, right now I have a hen and cock in one cage, bonded together, and I'm considering adopting/rescuing an unwanted hen. I can always keep the second hen separately, and will do so for quarantine in a separate room if I do adopt her (learned my lesson).


----------



## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

CooCooBird said:


> Just a quick question this time - will two hens get along with a cock in the same cage? Or will one hen pair up with the cock and then the pair picks on the other hen?
> 
> Just wondering, right now I have a hen and cock in one cage, bonded together, and I'm considering adopting/rescuing an unwanted hen. I can always keep the second hen separately, and will do so for quarantine in a separate room if I do adopt her (learned my lesson).


I think its best to keep them seperate. Its too risky to keep them together. In a cage they can't fly away from each other if something happens.
Your bonded pair will probably attack the new hen if you do.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A third bird won't work. That is their territory. They need to be kept in pairs. A single bird will always cause problems.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Think as people have said that two pairs would make everyone the happiest...you and the birds.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> A third bird won't work. That is their territory. They need to be kept in pairs. A single bird will always cause problems.


That's what I suspected. When I bought my first button quail, I bought three unsexed chicks. When they matured, one was male and the others were hens. He chose one of the hens, then the pair chased the other hen and picked on her mercilessly. I had to move her to her own cage and find another male to pair with her. 

I brought her in last night. I found her when I was taking my dogs out. I noticed kids surrounding a box and throwing stones into it, which to me is a sure sign of some animal being tortured. Sure enough when I went to intervene, I found a bundle of dull grey-brown feathers in the box. I thought it was a chicken at first. They were tossing the stones in, to make her growl. I shooed them off and brought her in. Much to my surprise, she's an Indian fantail who looks like she's finishing her moult. I say "she" but of course I don't know, and don't really care. Fantails can't fly, so I have to guess that someone stuck her in a box and left her outside because they didn't want her anymore. We had -20C windchill here last night. Luckily I recently sold my extra Jacobin male, so I had a spare cage handy. She is in the closed bedroom for quarantine now. I will give her a few days to settle in, then treat for worms and external parasites.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Fantails do fly. They just aren't great flyers and don't usually go far.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Fantails do fly. They just aren't great flyers and don't usually go far.


Ah ok. I read somewhere that they can't fly, or maybe I had it mixed up with a different breed.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Gorgeous bird! Thank you for rescuing her.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Gorgeous bird! Thank you for rescuing her.


I think she rescued herself by growling! It was that sound that attracted my attention to the kids with the box. I wasn't sure what I'd find when I first looked in the box, I thought it could be some wild animal like a possum. The upright tail made me think she was a chicken at first, then I saw the pigeon head. I thought she was a feral until I got her out of the box. She still growls a bit if I move my arm too fast inside her cage, but I'm talking to her and she's getting better.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Not sure if its male orfemale. I thought you said you for sure have a male and a female. Can you quarantine this bird to make sure she or he is healthy then get your male back and see if this bird is a female? Then you would have two pairs. Or get another female...two if our girls are paired and lay infertile eggs together and get along very well, sitting on their eggs together. The hard part is knowing if they are male or female and if they will get along. The only way to tell for sure is dna testing or when one lays an egg. I have guessed wrong a couple of times now. When everybody is happy, it is a good feeling and you get to be happy too! Lucky bird, that you heard her growling! You saved a life.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Not sure if its male orfemale. I thought you said you for sure have a male and a female. Can you quarantine this bird to make sure she or he is healthy then get your male back and see if this bird is a female? Then you would have two pairs. Or get another female...two if our girls are paired and lay infertile eggs together and get along very well, sitting on their eggs together. The hard part is knowing if they are male or female and if they will get along. The only way to tell for sure is dna testing or when one lays an egg. I have guessed wrong a couple of times now. When everybody is happy, it is a good feeling and you get to be happy too! Lucky bird, that you heard her growling! You saved a life.


It's kind of confusing. I bought a pair of Jacobins, I was told one was male and the other "probably" female. I kept them in the same cage because they were used to each other. After a couple of weeks they started cooing and displaying at each other, then they began fighting, so I moved one to a different cage. I put up ads to sell the second male. In the meantime I got a hen for the first male. I didn't quarantine that hen, but I know now that I should have. Luckily they both seem fine, and they've bonded nicely. 










I sold the other male just before Christmas. I didn't plan to acquire another pigeon. Then last night I found the fantail. She's in a separate cage in a different, closed room for quarantine. I don't intend to put her in the same cage as the other pair, but I would like to keep her here in the living room in her own cage eventually. I don't know what gender he or she is, I'm just calling it "she" for now. 

I ordered a DNA test kit for the Jacobins before I knew the second was male. I will use it on the fantail instead. That way I'll be sure of the gender, as I will probably end up getting another bird to keep her company after a while. Fantails are fairly easy to find in my area.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Your birds look very cute together! Hope you can find a mate later for the new fantail. Do these lovely three birds have names? The two in the photo and the rescued fantail? Once you get them paired, and you can pair two females, it gets so much easier and more fun. But please get fake eggs as we found out the hard way that otherwise you get more pigeons to pair together.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Your birds look very cute together! Hope you can find a mate later for the new fantail. Do these lovely three birds have names? The two in the photo and the rescued fantail? Once you get them paired, and you can pair two females, it gets so much easier and more fun. But please get fake eggs as we found out the hard way that otherwise you get more pigeons to pair together.


I call the white hen "Eve" because I got her on Christmas Eve. I haven't thought of a name for the Jacobin male yet, or the fantail since I just got her last night and I don't know her real gender. Though I suppose I could think of a unisex name. 

The fantail seems more tame than the others. When I come into the room, she hops down from her shelf and comes to the front of the cage, then peers into my face and cocks her head when I speak softly to her. It makes me wonder where she came from, and how she ended up in a box with kids throwing rocks at her. 

I'm aware of the need for "birth control", so I ordered some fake eggs last week. They should arrive within the next week or two. In the meantime I'm keeping a careful eye open for any real eggs. So far, nothing, and in fact I haven't seen him mating with her. He grunts and coos and bows, and she comes over and thoroughly preens his feather boa! But I see them snuggling together in their basket all the time, so it's only a matter of time.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Congrats! They make a lovely couple. Your new bird also is really pretty.


----------



## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Aww they look lovely together and how nice that they get along. I'd call the Jacobin Claudius because he looks very regal with that ruff. 
I'm getting my rescue white feral next week to hopefully pair with my lone feral male and hope once he's paired it will calm the other two males as well. She's called Olive because she was found submerged in a vat of oil some months ago. 
Happy days ahead I hope.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

FredaH said:


> Aww they look lovely together and how nice that they get along. I'd call the Jacobin Claudius because he looks very regal with that ruff.
> I'm getting my rescue white feral next week to hopefully pair with my lone feral male and hope once he's paired it will calm the other two males as well. She's called Olive because she was found submerged in a vat of oil some months ago.
> Happy days ahead I hope.


Claudius is a pretty cool name, and I'll put it on my short list  I sometimes take a while to decide on a name. 

I hope Olive does have happy days, she sure deserves it! She's lucky she survived. 

On the egg front, I've been busting my hump trying to find a place to get those fake eggs sooner. I did order some wooden ones last week but it's going to take until next week for them to get here, which is pathetic because I ordered from a place in Canada, deliberately avoiding US websites because it usually takes 2-3 weeks for things to get here. For two days I've been calling local shops that sell pigeon or even parrot supplies, they either carry the eggs but have none in stock, or they just don't carry them. 

Late last week I found they had laid two eggs, which increased my panic. Of course I don't want to wait until embryos are too developed to switch them. However, I know that Jacobins have fertility issues because of their long feathers which can interfere with breeding. Many breeders trim the vent feathers on both sexes of Jacobins. 

Today I noticed they were both off of the nest, so I took the opportunity to candle the eggs. Now they have four eggs! But luckily they are all duds - no blood vessels, pinkish or reddish areas. Just pale yellow inside, with the darker yolks. Phew! When I went to return the eggs, Eve was already perched on the side of the egg basket, giving me a reproachful look. She's back on duty now. I'll leave them be until the fake eggs get here; luckily I ordered four of them.

I was under the impression that pigeons only lay 2 eggs in a clutch. Could she have laid extras because she's laying duds? I know my button quail hens lay a dud each every day. They all get calcium/d3 supplements to prevent egg binding. 

Re the fantail, she's settling in nicely. I can hold her dish of food in front of her and she'll eat from it. We now have a routine, when I go into the bedroom where her cage is each morning to look after the birds there, I open the door to her cage and leave it open. She sits on the edge of the cage for a while watching what I'm doing, then she launches herself into the air and flies around the room. The first time she went straight for the window and bumped into it. Now she knows better and flies in circles near the ceiling. She's decided she likes my bed and lands on the quilt, then flattens herself down for a nap. 

It's interesting watching her manage with those feathers (fan tail, long wing feathers and especially the "muff" feathers on her feet). When she rests, she flattens her tail, wings etc and lies down on her belly. She doesn't growl very often any more, just when I have to pick her up or move her, like when it's time to get her back into her cage. I was reading up on fantails and how breeders keep them, so I put a layer of pine shavings on the bottom of her cage, this apparently protects the muff feathers on the feet and keeps them clean. I've decided to call her Ganache, this is a type of chocolate sauce or glaze. She's a deep slate grey colour but has many dark chocolate coloured feathers on her wings and back.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They don't lay eggs again right away. If they laid them all so close, then maybe you have 2 females. You wouldn't replace all 4 with the fakes, you would take the eggs and just put back 2.
How do you order 4 fake eggs? Usually come more than that in an order.
If a hen lays too often the calcium /D3 won't be enough. She will end up with problems.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> They don't lay eggs again right away. If they laid them all so close, then maybe you have 2 females. You wouldn't replace all 4 with the fakes, you would take the eggs and just put back 2.
> How do you order 4 fake eggs? Usually come more than that in an order.
> If a hen lays too often the calcium /D3 won't be enough. She will end up with problems.


So I guess I was right about them only laying 2 in a clutch. It's funny, they've both been taking turns sitting on the eggs. One set was laid almost a week ago, I just found the other set today. They must have been laid within the past 48 hours, because I did a full cage clean including changing the bedding in the nest early yesterday. I just use folded paper towel in the nest basket to avoid eggs getting buried. 

If the Jac is female that's very ironic, "he" never got along with the other Jac and they ended up wing slapping and trying to yank each others' feathers out. The cooing and bowing was incessant. It went on almost nonstop for a couple of weeks until I separated them. They certainly didn't act like these two. I guess it's possible for two hens to not get along and fight with each other? It's lucky I didn't buy the Jacobin hen that came available this week! Someday I'd still like to have a pair of Jacs to breed. 

Re the four eggs, at least two of the websites I checked sold them individually, including the place I ordered from. I bought four so that I'd have a spare pair in the future, assuming I were to get a partner for the fantail and they laid eggs at the same time as Eve and Claudius/Claudia. 

Re the calcium, I give them calcium/D3 powder mixed in their food, along with trace mineral powder. I use a pea sized blob of organic virgin coconut oil to coat the feed so that the powders will stick to it. They get finely chopped dark greens two or three times per week, or I give them perle morbide which is a supplement equivalent to sprouted seeds. And of course they have their grit which contains minerals and oyster shell. I also boil the quail eggs, grind them up shells and all, and mix them into the feed every two or three days. If there's something else they need, let me know. I'm planning a trip to a local pigeon supply store (that didn't have eggs) because I'm running low on feed.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Who were you going to buy the Jac hen for? Didn't you sell the other male?
I don't know what gender these 2 are. I'm just saying they could both be female.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Who were you going to buy the Jac hen for? Didn't you sell the other male?
> I don't know what gender these 2 are. I'm just saying they could both be female.


I thought of getting the hen and then finding another Jac male, this is before I found the fantail. I was merely toying with the idea because I'd looked for a hen for weeks and of course this one came up when it was too late. I wasn't considering splitting up Eve and Claudius, I know it's not fair for them to be split up when they've paired. 

I'll have to research pigeon breeding habits. I find it fascinating that two hens could pair up like male and female, and both lay eggs. If mine are both hens, at least I won't have to worry so much about pulling eggs that they lay right away. I guess they'll have to be pulled even if they're duds, because otherwise they'll rot. Once I get the fakes, I'll take all of the eggs and just put two fakes back in.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Many just leave them till they are tired of sitting on them and they are okay. But would have to be sure they are both females first. LOL.

Maybe you should have held on to the other male. A hen would eventually show up.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Many just leave them till they are tired of sitting on them and they are okay. But would have to be sure they are both females first. LOL.
> 
> Maybe you should have held on to the other male. A hen would eventually show up.


I'll candle the eggs again in a couple of days to make sure they're not fertile. I know it can take a few days before blood vessels start to appear. 

Re the male, what's done is done. Before I got the Jacobins I was set on getting a fantail anyway, but changed my mind when I heard they couldn't fly (I can't remember now where I got that idea). 

Now I have a fantail that seems to be of decent quality based on what I've learned about their breed standard. I found a Facebook group for fantail enthusiasts and posted pics of her, they seem to think I'm pretty lucky to have found her in a box! She's still at the end of her moult, so I won't know for sure until all of the new feathers grow out. Right now her crest is mainly pinfeathers and she's still dropping a few feathers here and there. I plan to use the DNA test I ordered for the Jacs, for the fantail instead. I have two test kits, so I could also test the Jac.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have an Indian Fan. I like them. Not so much the American Fans though.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I have an Indian Fan. I like them. Not so much the American Fans though.


Mine's an Indian. I really like her so far. She seems tamer than my other two, and more interested in what's going on around her cage. She still growls at me once in a while if she feels threatened. I've never heard a bird growl before, the closest was my African Grey who used to belch like Barney on the Simpsons when he felt annoyed. 

Anyway, Indian Fantails are a lot easier to find where I am than the Jacobins. So, I shouldn't have too hard of a time finding a mate for Ganache when the time comes. I will need to build another cage in the living room to put her in once the quarantine period is over. That will free up the bedroom for another quarantine when I get another bird. How long should the quarantine be anyway? I've seen no sign of parasites on her so far, however I'll worm and spray her before bringing her in to the living room.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Should be about 30 days. That gives you time to get to know her while you watch for signs of illness, and gives you time to treat.
Worming and spraying or dusting is a good idea.


----------



## CooCooBird (Dec 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Should be about 30 days. That gives you time to get to know her while you watch for signs of illness, and gives you time to treat.
> Worming and spraying or dusting is a good idea.


Here's a question: when worming and spraying, which to do first, or can both be done at the same time? If not, how far apart between worming and spraying? Which should be done first, or does it matter?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I always dust for the bugs first, but doesn't matter. You can do one right after the other.


----------

