# Bad pigeon column in NY Post



## PigeonFinder (Jun 18, 2002)

Note that the author's e-mail address is at the end of the coulmn:

TOO BAD PIGEONS DON’T POOP OUT 
By GERSH KUNTZMAN 
New York Post
10/21/02

October 21, 2002 -- I'VE got some good news, some bad news and some really bad news. 

Let's start with the good news: Last week, I was leaked part of the Audubon Society's forthcoming "Watch List," the semiannual roster of birds that have become endangered by hunting, development or other causes. And the pigeon - that disease-spreading rat with wings - is on the list! 

OK, now the bad news: It's not New York City's pigeon that's endangered, but three non-urban species. 

Darn. 

Now, before the animal lovers go crazy, let me say that I love animals. If the band-tailed pigeon, the white-crowned pigeon or the plain pigeon were lost forever, I'd be devastated. 

But city pigeons aren't animals. They're vermin! Not only do they carry disease, but there is nothing more repulsive than the sight of a pigeon pecking at a dirty french fry in a gutter. To rid the world of this blight is a noble pursuit. Or, as folkie Tom Lehrer once sang, "It's not against any religion/To want to dispose of a pigeon." 

Estimates on New York's pigeon population range from half a million (officially) to 45 billion (less accurate, yet oddly plausible). Even the top bird man at the Audubon Society begrudgingly admits that pigeons give real birds a bad name. 

"There's a fine line between too many and too few," said Frank Gill, the Audubon Society's science chief, indicating that the common pigeon is in the "too many" category. 

But Gill cautioned anti- pigeon New Yorkers to be careful what they wish for. Just remember what happened to the passenger pigeon, once 

the country's most common bird. 

"There were billions of them," Gill said. "They'd darken the sky. You could just fire in the air and cart off barrels of them." 

But hunting and over- development eventually killed off the bird, and by the beginning of the 20th century, there were none left. 

The lesson? "Just because a bird is common doesn't mean it can't disappear," Gill said. 

Which brings us to the really bad news. This year's "Watch List" - which will be released tomorrow to much fanfare - includes more than 200 birds, or roughly one-quarter of all species in the United 

States. "The average bird in this country," Gill said, "is in big trouble." 


[email protected]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good morning Pigeon Finder,
Looks like you did find something.

Just wondering: What is your definition of a 'Plain Pigeon'? You mentioned two specific types then a plain pigeon! How does a plain pigeon differ from a 'city pigeon'? I am not being sarcastic, I really don't know. Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Pigeon Finder,

Have you responded? It makes you wonder how something as pathetic as a hungry pigeon eating a dirty french fry can be regarded as repulsive and worthy of destruction by some people! 

In the UK there is a new TV advert (I think it is for Orange) that starts with someone thinking "If I had my way there would be no more pigeons"... I know that it is supposed to be viewed as humorous, but actually makes my blood pressure rise with indignation!









Perhaps someone who is good with words could write a pro-pigeon article for the same publication?

Cynthia

------------------
_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Well spotted!

Definitely a candidate for an e-mail - maybe also one to someone a little further up the chain?

I shall be drafting something for the pigeon-basher this day!

John


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Text of letter to NY Post Editor 'opinion'..

I must take issue with Gersh Kuntzman’s piece, as inaccurate and an incitement to cruelty to non-human creatures. 

From where, pray tell, do the dirty french fries (plus filthy chunks of bread, and half-eaten burgers and pizza slices) come? 

Who engineered the conditions in which diseases can proliferate?

Through which species' interference with nature did those pigeons come to be amongst us?

Did you know that the US Centers for Disease Control states 'the chances of getting a disease from a pigeon anywhere in the US are extremely rare'?

Do tell us, what is the most destructive, overpopulated, and malicious pest species on earth?

Clues....It walks on two legs and has no wings; excels at distributing garbage around, and causing wholesale pollution of, its environment; may be seen spitting, vomiting or urinating in inappropriate locations (often near bars); has the potential for spreading a multitude of diseases (sometimes with intent)....but let's not give too many clues away!

Now, about ridding the world of a blight......? 

Try some research, huh?

----------------------------------

By the way...a Plain Pigeon is a species of wood pigeon found in the Caribbean - that journalist really should do his research!

John

[This message has been edited by John_D (edited October 21, 2002).]


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

John you are WONDERFULLY brilliant! 

As I started reading the article and got to the french fry bit, I had to stop for a second and calm down. 

There are idiots like this all over the world. They are your neighbors and mine. They are ignorant of many things not just pigeons, because they are a selfish breed of human. That won't be my children, and most likely not any of yours. 

My heart goes out to all you pigeons lovers whose hearts raced and faces reddened when you read that article. You and I feel the same way and it's good to know we are not alone.

Peace,
Julie









PS. "GERSH KUNTZMAN" is that a German name by any chance? (Just wondering)


[This message has been edited by turkey (edited October 21, 2002).]


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## aloft (Mar 1, 2002)

Congratulations, John!

This guy belongs to that cathegory of newyorkers I was describing a while ago by giving an example of a situation that has happened right before my eyes... One day I was just offering some seeds to a few pigeons who had crossed my way in a street of a rich neighborhood of Manhattan. Two couples approached me, cursing at me for feeding the pigeons, after which one of the guys just started grinding the seeds under the soles of his fancy shoes, in the sound of the most disgusting and weired sounds coming out of his mouth. It was the expression of a visceral hatred for these birds that I will never be able to forget. I gave that specimen my best regards, which I also hope he'll never be able to forget. I am disgusted to the bone to see and hear about cases like this and I wish this Kunzman & Co. weren't living on this planet. Shame on them!
Once again, good job, John!

Regards,

Ely


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## joann woodring (Mar 27, 2002)

Hey John, Good reply!


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

This is my letter to the New York Post. It had to be limited to 200 words. I could have written a great deal more:
That article attacks intelligence. If the pigeon is dirty, it’s because they have been forced to live in cities made dirty by people. In a time where flora and fauna are being extinguished every single day throughout the world, Mr. Kuntzman sent out a message filled with lack of compassion, lack of understanding and lack of knowledge.
I just picked up a pigeon that had been deliberately tortured and will never be able to fly again. I wish that Mr. Kuntzman would take this bird in and make him a pet because he would learn a lot more about these precious birds than he does now and it would make him ashamed of what he wrote. Yes Mr. Kuntzman, they make loyal, affectionate and loving pets. Mr. Kuntzman, you can't catch anything from a clean pigeon except a renewed respect for all life. Remember that when you see those birds forced to bath and drink from contaminated street water and eat a French fried potato because there is no seed for them. If you want to see clean pigeons, attack the source of the filthy city and not its victims.


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## Afra (Sep 12, 2002)

Hey, Fred, excellent reply! I wonder, however, if Mr. Kuntzman will read your letter. I wonder if anyone will read your letter. Sometimes people don't read letters from those they are attacking or angry at. They just ignore them and toss them aside. But I hope and pray that your letter will produce the opposite effect, and that the birds will be treated better afterwards with love and respect. Some people just don't understand.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Fred and John's letters are both great!
I hope it will open those people's eyes abit...

Mary


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Afra,
Thanks. I wae stunned when I read the article and it took a couple of days before I could think straight. I would expect an attitude like this from the ordinary person but not from a supposed reporter. A real reporter gets the facts first and this guy doesn't have a clue.

------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer


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## Afra (Sep 12, 2002)

Sounds to me like he's talking about something he knows very little or nothing about and doesn't even have a clue as to WHAT or WHY he is attacking. People tend to do that a lot.

I'd like to add that I read John's letter as well, and I also find that a very excellent letter. Maybe if Fred and John both send their letters, there might be a good change.

[This message has been edited by Afra (edited October 22, 2002).]


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Folks,
Please send your opinions. This is important. Send them to:
[email protected] 

------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Everyone,
I plan on responding & indeed sending a letter to this person. Gentleman, would normally be my reference of choice, however I cannot consider him as such. 

I am in the process of attempting to locate the actual article in it's entirety. Once I read it I will respond. I am still trying to lower my B/P after reading the excerpt in Pigeon Finder's post.

Unfortunately, I feel Afra is correct, in that this person will merely delete his email if he figures it is going to be another 'negative' response to his article. But that's OK. Email first, other measures second. 

Fred is exactly right however, we all need to respond to this horrific article. Cindy


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Cindy,
Here is the link to the entire article: http://www.nypost.com/seven/10212002/commentary/60153.htm


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thank you so much Fred. 
Cindy


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## Aussdave (Sep 25, 2002)

Well done Fred and John. I just read the article (thanks Cindy) and your replies were spot on. I hope your letters inspire the writer of the article to learn a little more about our friends before he writes such ignorant misinformation. 

David


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Yes, well done John and Fred.
You both have a handle on the real problems here. 
Thanks so much.
Regards,
Carl


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Folks,
I'm pushing this post up to the top because it is very important for as many of you as possible to send this reporter an email. He is in a position to influence readers in a very negative way.
Please consider emailing this man.


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## aloft (Mar 1, 2002)

I just sent an e-mail to G. Kuntzman in reference to the outrageous article he published in The New York Post. Here it is:

Mr. Kuntzman,

I am a newyorker, like yourself, a simple hardworking citizen and a regular reader of the New York Post. I have always considered your newspaper as a reliable source of information about the life of our metropolis in different respects... Well, not any more after reading the article you published in the Monday issue under the title "Too Bad Pigeons Don't Poop Out". Whether the negative opinion you have expressed about our city's pigeons originates in another source, which might have inspired you to write what you did, or it simply is your own, it's hard to tell. What it's very easy to tell, instead, it is the lack of knowledge about these special birds, which transpires from the lines of your article. You claim that you love animals, even birds, as pigeons, but not the city's pigeons. May I ask you why? The city's pigeons are innocent animals like any other being on this planet. Oh, I see you don't like how they look... and "the danger they pose to our inhabitants" looks like it became your only preoccupation when it comes to talk about them... By any chance, can you please tell me who brought these tender birds in the almost desperate situation they are in right now, birds whose history goes back like 200 million years ago? What did the human civilization for them? And what do the cities around the world, ours included, for them, other than poisoning and killing them? These birds have been turned into the paria of the city's wildlife by people, namely by the ignorant and selfish ones, by that kind of people who would eventually take care only of a dog or a cat even better than of a child, by people who wouldn't care to spend a few bucks a week and buy one or two bags of seeds and offer them to these needy animals we call pigeons... If every resident of this city would care to spend at least one dollar a day for seeds, what a big difference this would make... But it looks that this can't be anythingelse but a dream which will never come true...
As I work in Manhattan, I can rarely see someone feeding these birds. I can see instead a growing number of dog owners (I love dogs enormously, make no mistake) walking their dear pets through the streets and avenues of our great city and sometimes willingly letting their leashes loose and having them chasing the pigeons who might be desperately busy pecking on some "dirty fries", like you said. Have you ever watched a cruel scene like this in Manhattan? Also, did it ever happen to you to meet people in the streets of our city, getting out of their minds and grinding the seeds under the soles of their shoes, screaming like enraged animals and cursing at people like myself, like us, whenever they are seen offering seeds to the pigeons? Well, I did witnessed scenes like the one mentioned above. And I have the feeling the number of these city wildlife haters might increase, after your article saw the daylight.
I just gave you a couple of modest examples as to what this city "does" in order to improve the pigeons' life. People spend fortunes on buying dog and cat food, but so little for bird food... It is sad... It is outrageous... And it seems that the ignorance is growing bigger and the hatred against these special birds as well. 
I would like to ask you: Have you ever had a bird pet, eventually a pigeon? I don't think so. I have one. It is a pigeon I found in the street, injured by an irresponsible driver, by a cruel human being who doesn't care about other forms of life and whose life is revolving only around issues like money, food, pleasures, etc, people whose lives are empty and meaningless, as empty as the skies would be without pigeons flying towards them. By the way, have you ever tried to figure out how the skies would look without them up there? I guess not.

Mr. Kuntzman, try to take your eyes, for a minute, off the lines you are writing in order to make a living and make your newspaper look good and aim high into the skies of our city and look at the wonderful flight of the pigeons, those who can eventually dedicate some time to flying, after having had the chance to catch some seeds offered by people like me and my friends. And after you do that, try to look down into the street, from the window of your office, right at the other pigeons who don't have time to even look into the skies, as they are trying to desperately find something to eat. Look at the hungry and sick ones, look at those run over by beasts behind the steering wheels, look at those who didn't ever have a chance to peck a seed offered by a human being... And while looking down into the street, you might see me feeding the pigeons. And if you will eventually see me cursed at by other people, for feeding the pigeons, next thing you do, just look at their faces towards which I will throw a handfull of seeds so they can taste them, eventually.

You reffer to the pigeons as "flying rats"? What about other kinds of rats, which are distroying flora and fauna on this planet?... What are pigeons destroying? What are they doing wrong so that you decided to apply them another unfair blow?

I would be really happy to see you writing a new article about the city's pigeons, one that would be based on a thorough observation and accurate scientific information on these lovely birds. In the meantime I don't think I would bother reading "The New York Post" any more... Instead I will use that time to better care of the injured and sick pigeons I love and feed them whenever and wherever I can. And so will do all my friends who love these wonderful birds.

Regards,

Ely


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Ely,
Wonderful letter!!!!!!


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

I belong to a pigeon rescue group in Yahoo called fprc. I crossposted the article to that group and one of the members sent the following letter to Mr. Kuntzman:

Dear Mr. Kuntzman:
I am a woman who has been married to a man that has had fancy pigeons all but 2 years of his life. He is 52. We have raised many birds and farm animals. I have yet to find any bird or animal that is what you call dirty or disease carrying. We have never caught anything from our pigeons.
You are more apt to catch a disease from the person sitting next to you than you will from pigeons. Many people have a dog or cat and little do they realize what they can get from them. A few are Rabies, Rocky Mountain Spotted fever from ticks, Toxoplasmosis( a single cell parasite that causes flu like symptoms. Roundworm, Ringworm, and Mange. 
Horses.Lymes disease, Equine Encephalomyelitis, Leptospirosis.
Cattle, sheep, goats etc...... all can carry a zoonotic disease. So are we to eradicate all animals on this earth so we humans can feel safe from these zoonotic disease's that we may catch anyway from the dirt we walk on. Are we to kill all the wild animals?
In most cases it is the humans that create the circumstance for diseases. 
The ground is full of disease we humans can acquire. Our drinking water is treated and tested constantly for disease's we could be ingesting from the cup of water we get out of our water taps.
When you wake up in the morning believe me you are confronted with billions of germs that you yourself create in your own home from all the waste you create starting from the bathroom to the kitchen. But you know what. Your immune system generally kicks in and keeps you healthy. 
If pigeons were as dirty as you perceive them to be why then are there not thousands conflicted with disease's from pigeons on a daily bases. 
You are more apt to get sick from the meats, vegetables and fruits you eat everyday then you are from a disease from birds and animals.
It is what we humans have done that that cause disease 's and disorder's in many cases. 
We all have to live in this world and to cull out anything can cause more hurt than we realize. We are all a part of the Eco system.
God created humans and animals. We are all here for a purpose and it is not to mane and kill but how we go about taking care of our world. 
Before you write anything about pigeons, I think you should find out more about what you face in your own home and the disease's and disorder's you are creating for our feathered friends. Pigeons have existed with humans for thousands of years. Where there was seed, there were birds and pigeons of many kinds. 
Please tell me what is the difference between the band-tail pigeon and the common pigeon in New York. I can tell you there is none. They are all pigeons. 
Do you know who Cher Ami was? He was a pigeon that saved the New York battalion of the 77th division October 27th, 1918. They had advanced to far into enemy territory and they were completely surrounded by the enemy. They had released several pigeons but they were all shot down before they could get up in the air. Cher Ami was their last pigeon and their last hope. As Cher Ami circled to make his way home he was hit with shrapnel. The leg with the message attached to had been almost severed from the body and had tore his chest open . This pigeon made it to his home in 25 min and saved these men from certain death. Cher Ami body is on exhibit in the Smithsonian Institution, US National Museum, Washington DC along with many other famous PIGEONS. I Love all birds but PIGEONS are my favorite.
Why don't you come to the pigeon shows and see for yourself. A pigeon is a pigeon


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## critrman (Aug 8, 2002)

I too shall write to this (I use the term loosely) gentleman...however the excelent letters already written, could they not be sent directly to the NY Post? I saw an e-mail or site on the bottom of the article that Cindy sent....lets hit him at both ends...himself and the Post...I am going to try. 

Mark


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

First of all folks, thank you for your support. 
The only answer people seem to come up with in order to control animal populations they see as pests is to kill. We can send 
spacecraft beyond the boundaries of our solar system but can't come up with anything better than murder at home.
This particular reporter wrote an article without thinking outside the box. He didn't think at all. People read what columnists write and are influenced by what they have to say. This was very damaging and I'm sure there will be repercussions even worse than what is happening now.
Folks, you may or may not have the same stereotype of the pigeon that has been handed down from generation to generation but they are old wife tales. This bird is in trouble. They are poisoned, tortured and in general, greatly misunderstood. The fact is that they are very intelligent. Pigeons have been taught to recognize the 
alphabet. They have been taught how to recognize different pictures from two different classical artists. Because they are the only other bird besides parrots to feed their young with a crop milk, the 
pigeon is considered to possibly be the ancestor of the parrot. As long as we continue to have such a terrible attitude towards the pigeon, we do not learn to respect all life on this planet and you 
all know what is happening around the globe. The pigeon has therefore become the symbol to me of a world gone mad and hell bent on destroying the entire environment. 
I'm asking you to please take a stand on this issue because this is more expansive than just the pigeon. Please send off an email to the columnist at the email listed on the bottom of the post that gave you the article that was written. Please vote for sanity.


------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer

[This message has been edited by fred2344 (edited October 23, 2002).]


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Mark,
If you send a letter to the editor, the message has to be no more than 200 words. If you send an email directly to the columnist, it can be any length. 
I sent a letter to the editor and to the columnist. I had a rough time keeping the one to the editor less than 200 words.


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## Afra (Sep 12, 2002)

Fred,

I am so sad and upset about this that I am finding a hard time trying to find the right words to put in my own letter. I tried to write one yesterday, but deleted it, as it didn't really reflect the anger and frustration I feel. I am the type of person that can't think straight when sad and upset. My hand shakes and I write sloppily. Maybe when I regain more strength and composure, I may find the right words to say. As of right now, I don't even have the strength to say or even write Kuntzman's name. I don't even want to hear it right now.


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Afra,
Don't write anything. I understand how you are feeling. This man represents the majority of ignorant people out there who haven't been raised to appreciate the value of all life. We do and are much more sensitized to the horrors we see around us.
I'll be honest with you and say that nothing much is going to happen because some people wrote letters. We wrote to make sure that each of us understands we are not part of the problem but part of a possible solution. We try to set an example of what humanity should be, not what it is.
If this columnist can walk past a sick or injured animal of any kind, do you really think we are going to change his mind? 
The letters that went out are from people who see the harsh reality of the world and your letter will not go out because you too, see the same thing. It's a very difficult situation to deal with and whether you write or don't write, you too, are part of the solution. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
What matters is the way you live your life and the choices you make. You're doing fine.


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## Afra (Sep 12, 2002)

Thanks. At least I hope that the letters of those who HAVE written will produce a happy change for these poor birds. I wish Kuntzman would put himself in the shoes of these birds and see if he would like to be treated as they are being treated. Maybe then he'll change his mind.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Just wondering...I am not a member of PETA, and I don't know how they stand with pigeon people....but that article (particularly the quote from a distasteful Tom Lehrer 'song') is, as I said in my letter to NY Post, inciting people to abuse of pigeons and worse. PETA are, as far as I know, dead against mistreatment of any animal life. Any ideas there?

John


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

I sent this this morning. I see an auto-reply in my mailbox, saying he'll get back to me on Friday.

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray

*****
Dear Mr. Kuntzman:

Pursuant to your article of 10/21/02, I'd like to remind you of a few indisputable facts:

The common or feral pigeon is the direct ancestor of the Eurasian Rock Dove, not indigenous to this country. It was by no accident that we brought them here. History records that pigeons are our oldest and dearest feathered friends. 

Prior to our enlightened age, pigeons were considered an asset to humankind. They enriched our bodies, our fields, our culture, our religion, and our lives. Their service to us was exemplary in two world wars, and in battles too numerous to be remembered, where their astonishing abilities saved countless human lives. In one case, a WWII carrier pigeon, GI Joe, saved over a thousand allied lives in a single mission. Joe was decorated with
the Dickin Medal, the animal equivalent of the Victoria Cross. In fact, some of your own ancestors may owe their existence to a homing pigeon. Your presence here today may be due, in part, to one of these irrepressible little beings. Man's best friend? Pigeons have answered that call
throughout history.

Science considers pigeons and doves to be of one family-columbidae. The pigeon in particular, has been most beloved. It has been reported that only in the last century has columba livia, the common pigeon, become the target of abuse, ridicule, and disregard. If this is a problem, we've
created it. Boy, that's becoming a tired old story, isn't it?

The white dove, actually a pigeon, has been an integral symbol in many religions. That symbol survives to this day as an icon of peace and hope. The beauty of the dove has inspired artists around the world over the
eons. You will find the likeness of the pigeon in ancient Egyptian, Greek and Roman art. Shakespeare wrote fondly of the dove and Picasso featured them in paintings. He even named a daughter after them--Paloma, Spanish for pigeon. People have kept pigeons for 6000-years, and they were far from foolish for doing so.

In science, pigeons provided the confirmation for Darwin's groundbreaking work, "Origin Of Species", by providing models for natural selection and evolution. They were pivotal in the work of Harvard psychiatrist, B. F. Skinner. More recently, studies of pigeons led to breakthroughs in our modern dairy industry. And pigeons continue to provide surprising insights into studies involving learning, intelligence, navigation, flight dynamics and genetics. The University of Montana concludes that pound for pound, columba livia (the common pigeon), is one of the most "physically adept" beings in the animal kingdom.

With regard to the Passenger Pigeon, In the fall of 1815, Audubon himself calculated the numbers in a single flock of passenger pigeons as they passed over rural Kentucky. His estimate: 1,115,136,000 individuals. His observation required three days--the time it took the flock to cross the sky. In his journal, he wrote of one fateful encounter when the flock arrived to settle in for the night:

"Few pigeons were to be seen, but a great number of persons, with horses and wagons, guns and ammunition, had already established encampments on the borders. [Farmers] had driven upwards of three hundred hogs to be
fattened on the pigeons which were to be slaughtered. Suddenly there burst forth a general cry of 'Here they come!' The noise which they made, though yet distant, reminded me of a hard gale at sea. As the birds arrived and passed over me, I felt a current of air that surprised me. Thousands were soon knocked down by the pole-men. It was a scene of uproar and confusion. Even the reports of the guns were seldom heard. Towards the approach of day, the authors of all this devastation began their entry aongst the dead, the dieing, and the mangled. The pigeons were picked up and piled in heaps, until each had as many as he could possibly dispose of, when the hogs were let loose to feed on the remainder."

Does that sound like a "hunt" to you, sir? That was no hunt! It was a massacre! It was a sin against an animal nation. It was a sin against God and nature, recorded for all time; and I had hoped that we might learn
from it. But I'm sad to see that many of us have not. Sadly, as a citizen of my time I can attest that there are a large, perhaps growing number of people that would say, "so what?" Are you among them?

In commerce, the speed and homing abilities of the pigeon were recognized early. The establishment of the prestigious Reuters news agency was based, in part, on the unique abilities of the homing pigeon. The use of pigeons made personal fortunes from stock trades, for more than a few noble families, long before transmission through wire became practical.

The fancy show pigeons and fast racing pigeons of modern times all trace their roots to columba livia. They most certainly have had their desired traits skillfully guided by selective breeding. Pigeon fanciers have done an astonishing job of producing a multitude of pigeon breeds, beautiful, fast and bizarre. But apparent features aside, better than 99.9% of their DNA is identical to that of columba livia, the much maligned and misunderstood, feral pigeon.

How tragic to sever the ties we created. For you see, pigeons prefer our company. Isn't it obvious? Through ages of conditioning we have bred them to do so. Easily tamed and surprisingly smart, they instinctively sense the friendship that was there. They have come across space and time with us, and for them, the memory persists. That tradition accounts for their presence among us today. Once again, we forget so easily and occupy ourselves with the trivial crap of the day.

So many of us live only in the immediate sense, seeking instant gratification, in a paved world, sterile as a new Lexus. 

Rats with wings? Through better than 99.9% of human history, people didn't think so. How small have some of us become to disparage the noble pigeon? What more these little beings must do to win our lasting respect, I cannot imagine.

Thank you for your attention.

Very truly yours,

Raymond P. Buchholz

*****
End


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Ray,
Brilliant letter!!


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## Joel (Mar 6, 2001)

Wow!!
Nicely done Ray.

Joel


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

RIGHT ON!!!

Thanks,
Carl


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## Mary L (Jul 17, 2002)

Bravo Ray Bravo!!


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Wonderful letters Fred, Ely, John, Ray, Cindy! Thank you for bringing this to our attention, PigeonFinder.
Okay...here's my contribution:

Dear Mr. Kuntzman,

Thank you for bringing attention to the plight of the band-tailed pigeon, white-crowned pigeon, and plain pigeon in your recent article entitled, "Too Bad Pigeons Don't Poop Out".

Unfortunately, you chose to denigrate your good intentions by also offering up a slate of old wives' tales and cliches against the common "city" pigeon.

Mr. Kuntzman, I am confused. As a New Yorker, you must see around you every day how tenuous life can be...how fragile. If you find the sight of a pigeon pecking at a dirty french-fry "repulsive", how must you feel about the sight of the homeless...the hungry? It's all about survival and the will to live, Mr. Kuntzman, whether pigeon or fellow man. If you find the sight of that disgusting, I sincerely hope that you never have to find sustenance in the streets of New York.

And yes, city pigeons survive better than most in the streets of our cities...in amongst our filth, our diseases, our stench. They are one of the few species of birds that can, (look at the plight of the band-tailed pigeon, the white-crowned pigeon, and the plain pigeon for example). Should we malign this incredible ability to adapt to our way of life, or should we applaud it?

Mr. Kuntzman, I challenge you to set aside your preconceived notions, biases, and cliches for one day. 
Cornell University of Ornithology has an informative web-site pertaining to city pigeons, including an on-going education/scientific study called "Project Pigeon Watch". The site is: http://birds.cornell.edu/ppw 
Please browse through it.
There are also very dedicated people in the New York area who care for injured/orphaned pigeons.
Please contact them.
Yes, there are even people who keep pigeons as pets.
Please listen to them.

Who knows? Perhaps one day, you will write an article that truly does benefit one species of bird without being at the expense of another.

Dawn A Woodland

*Well, I can't imagine that is going to do anything, but at least I got it off my chest.
And I got the same auto-respond message, Ray.
Wild Dove*


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Dawn said, in part, "Well, I can't imagine that is going to do anything, but at least I got it off my chest."

I don't know. We helped to make a difference in London England, 18-months ago, when we deluged Mayor Ken Livingstone's office with similar sentiments (they were rudely evicting the pigeons from Trafalgar Square!). To their credit, they reevaluated and amended their plan.

Then again, perhaps our British friends are a bit less crass, a bit more civilized, on the whole, than we are. Still, there were the Spice Girls...









Thanks, guys!

Well done, everybody! 

Goodnight,

Ray


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## bluebell (Oct 23, 2002)

Hi everyone,
Yeah, well, what can you say? Kuntzman's mentality enforces what we already knew. That some journalists arent human, they are VERMIN!!!







And he calls himself an animal lover. That's a joke. This jerk who is in a position of power, has the ability to influence people's thinking and incite hatred towards our feathered friends. I will be sending an email to Kuntzman and commend everyone else who already has and who gives a damn. Let's hope he reads these responses and can understand something about compassion and human kindness. But then again that's probably wishful thinking.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I also want to thank everyone for contributing, in their own way, to the cause. 
Each letter is unique & well put. Thank you in advance, Bluebell.
Cindy


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## Badragoon (Apr 22, 2002)

I have not yet E-mailed him, but so far I have enjoyed all of the statements you guys and gals have sent him. He has it coming. I especially enjoyed raynjudy's, long, but very good. I wonder where the estimated 1,115,136,000 pigeons flying for three days took place? 

The so called animal lover Gersh Kuntzman is no animal lover if he can sit there saying such cruel and hateful things about our beloved friends and as you say "man's best friend". I agree with you all, he is out of his mind to call them "vermin" or "rats with wings"







. If only he was in our shoes and knew the wonderful moments and company they bring. 

They are actually sometimes considered to be smarter than the common man.They are not thoughtless mindless creatures that have no feelings. They think and feel just as we do, and should be treated with the same respect as you would any other human being. I do not think this Gersh fellow knows anything at all. I am now going to end this post, although I plenty more to say, because I do not want go any further. All these posts speak for themselves, Gersh is a mere fool to accuse the defenseless pigeon of such things. I leave it at that. 

Thank you for reading my post 
,Blake Daniels 

------------------
Da' Dragoon

[This message has been edited by Badragoon (edited October 24, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Badragoon (edited October 24, 2002).]


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

"I wonder where the estimated 1,115,136,000 pigeons flying for three days took place?"

These were Passenger Pigeons passing over rural Kentucky. This was a single flock! 

John James Audubon wrote much about the Passenger Pigeon. A lot of his prose on the subject is elegant, and shows a deep appreciation for the species. His work founded the Audubon Society.

I recommend that everybody read "The Silent Sky: The Incredible Extinction Of The Passenger Pigeon", by Allan W. Eckert. 

Have a great day, everybody!

--Ray


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## Badragoon (Apr 22, 2002)

Thank you for the response. I was just wondering.

------------------
Da' Dragoon


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## Peapicker (Sep 18, 2000)

This is my letter to Mr. Kuntzman:

Mr. Kuntzman,

Pigeons only congregate where there is a food source. Each person who throws fast food cartons out of the car window, or drops food in the street invites a pigeon into the city. The pigeon who pecks at the dirty french fry in the gutter can only do that because a human put it there.

Instead of vilifying the pigeons, who are innocent of any wrong doing, you could be using your energy and your influence to educate people to become better citizens of your city by not discarding food where the pigeons can find it. Only when the food supply dwindles will the pigeon population become more acceptable to you. 

As for the "disgusting sight of a pigeon pecking at a dirty french fry in the gutter" - what do you think should be done about the homeless humans among you who have to dig for their food in garbage cans? Or have you never personally seen this?

You need to broaden your vision.

Marjorie Marshall


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

I'm sitting here and reading everything in this thread. I think this may be one of our finest moments. This experience has brought us very close together.


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## Badragoon (Apr 22, 2002)

Indead it has.









------------------
Da' Dragoon


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## Peapicker (Sep 18, 2000)

Hi everyone,
My letter has now gone to the New York Post. Even if our letters dont get published, at least we have made a huge impression with the volume of our responses.

Ray, thanks for the book recommendation - I, for one, can't wait to read it. By the way, Alan Eckert is one of Austin's favorite authors.

Marjorie


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Well put Peapicker. 
I agree as well. Cindy


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Marjorie said, in part:

"Ray, thanks for the book recommendation - I, for one, can't wait to read it. By the way, Alan Eckert is one of Austin's favorite authors."

Hi, Marjorie!

Rarely have I been so moved by a story. "The Silent Sky" should be required reading for every jr. high school student, as a prerequisite to becoming a responsible adult-—whichever side of the hunting or gun issue they may land on.

Austin is a sensitive man, isn’t he?

Best,

Ray


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Dragoon says, "I especially enjoyed raynjudy's, long, but very good."

Thanks!









With regard to the length, well, a resume covering 6000-years of distinguished service is going to eat up a few lines, now isn't it?









Wait till this guy really pi$$es me off!

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

I wonder what he would classify "real birds" as... He mentioned that these "disease spreading-rats with wings" give "a bad name to real birds". Although I agree that there are way too many ferals in some cities, they are still birds. Ever heard anyone say there are way too many robins? Or blue jays? The only reason they are such a "problem" is because they are where we are everyday and live right with us. Therefore we tend to take them for granted. They are still real birds... maybe we just aren't real people?

Nick


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## Peapicker (Sep 18, 2000)

Yes, Ray, Austin is indeed a sensitive man.

Marjorie


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## Eileen (Aug 17, 2002)

Wow. It's great that you guys have gotten together to fire back the way you did. I'll write a reply too, who knows, perhaps it will help.

When reading the stupid article, all the same things came in in my head: if he is so disgusted with a pigeon eating a dirty fry, what must he think of the homeless? But then it's less "PC" to speak badly of the homeless, though I doubt this guy gives any of his own time or money to help another life out.
What has always disgusted me is how we as humans allow our city to become so disgusting, and we live in it. We're just lucky enough to not have to eat outside.

And on another side note: this bothers me on many levels; one being, I am a rat owner( so obviously the "rats with wings" analogy doesn't fly with me). I have two female black hoodeds and I love them as much as I love my cats. They are sweet, loving, smart and wonderful animals.
And yet I constantly have to endure "vermin"
comments, eye rolling, and ridicule.
(While some of my friends have extremely ill-behaved children, I am not permitted to name-call there...)
People always bring up the bubonic plague (which rats are not responsible for, the fleas were), and one of the biggest problems with the bubonic plague was the fact that sanitation was so poor, they used to just stack the dead bodies up in the town, which drew the rats & fleas.
So whose fault was it? The rats? Or the humans who didn't know how to clean up after themselves?

My pigeon experience is much more limited than all of yours, but I have rehabbed a few, and with Ely's help, have saved some this summer. And I am amazed once again how exposure to a being can make you see the beauty in it. 

But here is what saddens me the most: I don't know if you all heard this story, but earlier this week, (I also live in New York so this post was quite applicable to me also), two teenagers, I think 15 & 16, somehow got their hands on a red-tailed hawk. They tied it to their bicycles and dragged it, lit it on fire, and urinated on it. Some neighbors intervened, put the fire out and rushed the poor raptor to a vet. It could not be saved. The boys were heard to be laughing and saying they would do it again. It gives me a stomach ache all over again to even tell this story.

THIS - is the most disgusting thing I've heard. I am ashamed to share a species with people like this who, as some of you said,
DELIBERATELY spread disease, are the reason for the filth, and people who write articles like that are the least likely to ever go out of their way to ever help.

(Post note: a few weeks ago in the Newsday in New York, Jimmy Breslin wrote a stupid article like the one you speak of, how he "doesn't dislike" dogs, but thinks they are filty, disgusting animals, and the most disgusting thing he's ever seen is the sight of a human bending over to pick it's waste up. Then he further goes on to be disgusted about dog filth on the sidewalk. Come on, Jimmy, you don't like when it's picked up and you don't like when it's not?)
Now in NY I KNOW there are huge amounts of dog lovers, but guess what articles got printed: ones that sided with this idiot. There were hardly any that went against him.
And while that makes me angry, when all is said and done, we're taking the higher road, and he and the guy who wrote the pigeon article, are uneducated idiots. 

Sorry for the long post but this really got me going.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Oh my Gosh about those 2 kids..That is horrible and it made me SICK...








What do people get out of doing these cruel things??????
That poor hawk..









Mary


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## Badragoon (Apr 22, 2002)

Do you know if anyone called the police on them??? They violated a law and it was very cruel. I do believe Red-Tailed Hawks are endangered too. I may be wrong.

------------------
Da' Dragoon


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

This is the response I received from Mr. Kuntzman:
Now, calling him names was not in my email but I got a good belly laugh out of it!!

Dear letter writer:

I received far too many hateful, angry emails about my recent article in the New York Post about how much I hate pigeons to respond to each of them personally (as I usually do). While I agree that my article was unintelligent and misguided, I defend myself by saying that the article was meant to be a joke, obviously one that I either didn't tell well enough or you simply didn't get.
As I said many times during the article, I love animals. The entire 
reason I wrote the column in the first place was to draw attention to the Audubon Society's oft-ignored "Watch List" of birds that are endangered. To get people to read my article, I had to do something provocative, like slam the NYC pigeon. But the larger goal -- to get people to pay attention to all the birds in danger -- was still there.
Many of you accurately pointed out that humans are the filthy animals whose litter feeds all these pigeons. I couldn't agree more, and have written about this problem far too many times.
Sorry if my story was unclear. As for me being a sick, demented 
a--hole, I
must say I disagree with that assessment.

GERSH

PS: Fred, thanks for writing a letter to the editor.


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