# Our pigeon story and some questions....



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Anyone in the mood to read a novel? 

In early June, our daughter found a white "dove" sitting alone in our backyard. It had no leg bands and sported a bloody back (hawk attack?). We took in the bird where our daughter nursed it back to health in her bedroom. Naturally, she bonded with her precious "Henry" over the following weeks. I don't think the feeling was mutual. He ate from her hand and would sit on her but he would grunt the whole time. Basically, he just tolerated her. I did a lot of research online and could not for the life of me figure out if the bird was a dove or a pigeon. So, when asked, we simply said it was a "Henry". And it was a boy (because our 12 yr old said it was). My husband and I figured he was a wedding release that went astray. 

2 months passed. Henry was in tip top shape and healthy enough to release. But how do you release "someone" who is now a part of the family? We all discussed the pros and cons (we live in hawk country) and decided to keep Henry. Sure, he was a grumpy old cuss, but he really settled in nicely. Our daughter declared that he needed a mate to bond with since he wouldn't bond with her. She couldn't bear to see her Henry sad and lonely. I think it was the night time cooing that made her heart ache. 

We found a roller pigeon breeder who was touched by our story and offered us a pigeon free to a good home. I figured I didn't want babies, so I'd get a different breed of pigeon (love my common sense?). We took Henry along with us to the breeder’s house in hopes that the guy could solve the mystery as to what kind of bird he was. We learned a lot that day! Pigeons do back flips! In the sky! And Henry was confirmed to be a female bull’s-eye white racing homer. It was guessed SHE was less than a year old and agreed that SHE was from a release. The male roller that our daughter chose was a reject from the breeder's show stock (wouldn’t return to the trap when called in). We naturally named him "Simple Simon", because frankly, it seemed he was a couple sandwiches short of a picnic...and more as we would soon find out!

We made the common mistake by putting them together in Henri’s (note the y changed to an i) cage. Poor Simon! He was chased and harassed relentlessly. The dilemma was solved by separating the cage in half with plastic mesh and we switched them to different sides daily so that they didn’t have enough time to settle in enough to become territorial. It worked! One week later, they were both living in harmony without the barrier and are presently inseparable best friends. The only time Henri lays into Simon is when Simon tries to serenade(I think?) her with his head bobbing and cooing. 

It’s now mid November and the birds are doing great! Henri still grunts but is noticeably happier and is clearly the brains of their little antics. Simon? Well he definitely lives up to his name. He cannot fly forward most of the time. He flies up and he flies backwards. Not all the time. But most. He also takes great enjoyment “skating” backwards up and down my coffee table, using his wings to propel him. Yes. Backwards. Oh yeah...He’s in love with my oil lamp. We are talking full out cooing and dancing. Undeniably pure love. Before that, it was my wicker flower vase. Apparently he feels he’ll have a more promising future with the lamp<rolling eyes>. I now understand why Henri wants no romantic future with him. Would you?!? Regardless, we can’t help but adore that sweet, slightly retarded pigeon!

We have an outside enclosure that measures roughly 6ft X 6ft X 5ft where they spend the day when weather permits. We plan on making it larger next spring so they can have room to fly around. Their inside cage is about 3 ft wide 1 1/2 ft deep and maybe 3 ½ ft tall. When the weather is crummy, they get about 3 hours of daily free run/flight of the house. We feed them Pigeon feed that has all the seeds and grain they need (no corn). I heard pellets make their stool runny? We use the red grit (oyster shells and vitamins) and they get their treats of black sunflower seeds almost daily.

Ok. Now that you know our story…here come the questions:

****Now that I know Homers CAN breed with Rollers and if by chance Henri grows romantic feelings towards Simon, is it a bad thing to let them have eggs? Would it be emotionally/physically damaging if I tossed the eggs as she lays them? Do I change them out with dummy eggs? I don’t want babies, but I don’t want to traumatize the couple either. Probably should have thought of that before getting an opposite sex, huh? I'm hoping that Simon stays faithful to the oil lamp.

****I saw that they sell pigeon diapers. What are the chances that Henri will accept it seeing she’s between 6 mos to a year old already? Being as grumpy as she is, will this ruin what bond we do have with her seeing that she isn’t all that trusting as it is? I’m not too worried about Simon (banded march baby). He’s accepting of pretty much anything. I would love to have these so that the birds can run around the house all day long with only having to change the diapers out once every couple hours. 

****I saw that they sell flight harnesses. How dependable are they? Are they so trustworthy that one could confidently fly their bird in it with no fear of them escaping from the harness? It almost sounds too good to be true. Would love to get them, but geez…if there was a defect resulting in the birds flying away, our daughter would be devastated...not to mention me as well. 

****How long is their life expectancy? I have gotten so many different answers, I’m clueless. 

****Simon likes to stand on one leg at a time. Even when not at rest. He doesn’t limp nor does he favor one over the other. Whenever he pauses from walking, up goes a foot. Not a particular foot. He likes to switch it up as a matter of fact. I’m concerned about whether if it's his abnormal personality showing through or if this is a symptom of an underlying problem. 

****How does one tell if their pigeons are overweight? 

****Do they need regular nail trimming? 

****Will Henri ever come around? It’s been 5 months… she still grunts and tries to elude capture every time we go to handle her. Once caught, she will sit on our hand or arm with no problem. We’ve tried taking out their food and only allowed them to eat via hand feeding, but it doesn’t seem to have worked with her. 

****Is Simon mentally challenged? Or are his “special” ways a normality amongst rollers? One other oddity he performs is when it’s bath time. After splishing and splashing, he’ll hop out of the pan and lay on his side with his wing up in the puddles on the floor. Our daughter said it’s because Henri told him he has B.O. and he’s washing his “pits”. I can’t accept that as a valid answer. Silly kid!

Thank you all very much for taking the time to read! Any and all comments, answers, words of wisdom or anything else are most welcome! 

Michelle


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Wow! LOL That is one great novel....kept my interest  And your daughter obviously did a great rehab job!
In your second paragraph, with the description of all that grunting....my guess was a female (hen). I'll try to answer as much as I can....but its early and I'm not fully awake yet 
Pigeons do not look at your hand as part of your body....the hand is a predator to them and they will try to get away from it. Most of my hand raised babies don't like it when I reach for them, but will fly to me and sit on my head, shoulder, arm. Hand feeding is good. When holding them, stroke/massage their head, neck and shoulders.....they love that and will eventually accept the hand.
Sounds like you have the diet down.
When putting them outside, just make sure the enclosure is 'predator proof'... 1/2 inch wire mesh. Anything larger (chicken wire is a NO NO), mice and rats can gain access, cats, hawks and raccoons can reach thru and grab. I would not use one of those harnesses. Years ago, there was a member here that had her bird outside on a harness. A hawk came down and took it....harness, leash and bird. A hungry hawk is not afraid of you. I would go with the 'pigeon ware' (diaper). That can also be found here...search 'pigeon ware' I think.
If you don't want babies, switch the eggs with fake eggs....don't just take them away. If you do, she will immediately lay 2 more...depleting her calcium. Let her sit on the fake eggs for the full term - 18 days. When they don't hatch, she'll just get up and walk away, take a break and start all over again.

Trying to remember more of you questions......need to grab a coffee


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

OK, and BTW your daughter looks very proud and happy with her new pets 
Nail trimming, it helps if you put a brick in their cage. Pigeons love to bathe! The wing in the air....he's drying himself, never noticed birds having BO... LOL
If you don't have a good avian vet, its a very good idea to have the basic medications on hand, and have their 'poops' tested for parasites (just like any other pet). Most of us here de-worm our birds routinely, me- 2/3 times a year.
The 'antics' of a cock trying to get the hen's attention are amusing at least. That's the best part of watching my birds, especially the Fantails! Wings outstretched, strutting, bowing, tail dragging...it's quite entertaining 
OK, have to get ready for work, I'm sure I missed something, but others will be along.
And.....Welcome to PT. There is alot of nice people here and a wealth of knowledge.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh, and I just noticed the bottom of your outside enclosure. I would put 1/2 wire down on the ground. Mice (and rats) will dig under and get inside. Rat and mice droppings will make the birds sick (salmonella), and rats will kill the birds


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

I already got a reply!! Hooray!! Was worried that with one look at all of the paragraphs, one would turn tail and run! Thank you for not running!

I learned from the breeder that I made a mistake with the plastic fencing used in their outdoor enclosure. I have the spacing right but I guess the plastic material is a no-no. When they are outside, we are always home and they come in at dusk. When spring comes around and we start reconstruction, I plan on using wire. For some reason, I hear this little echo from the past revisiting my memory..."The pigeons will be cheap and easy pets mom!" 

Thanks for the input on the harness idea. I think it will be best to consider that a no-go.

Thanks also for the pointers on the egg dilemma! 

Enjoy your coffee!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Michy said:


> I already got a reply!! Hooray!! Was worried that with one look at all of the paragraphs, one would turn tail and run! Thank you for not running!
> 
> I learned from the breeder that I made a mistake with the plastic fencing used in their outdoor enclosure. I have the spacing right but I guess the plastic material is a no-no. When they are outside, we are always home and they come in at dusk. When spring comes around and we start reconstruction, I plan on using wire. For some reason, I hear this little echo from the past revisiting my memory...*"The pigeons will be cheap and easy pets mom!" *
> 
> ...


Actually....they are, BUT they are addicting! I started with 1 rescue 18 years ago.....now I have over 100!


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Worms and parasites, huh? Did the external mite spray(both were infested) never thought on internal parasites. I'll be sure to get some meds. 

Love the brick idea..Now I gotta find a brick!!

Our daughter looooves her birds. What a wonderful hobby to introduce to a kid. She's working on converting friends over to the "feathered side".

Simon doesn't put his wing "up" when sitting in the water. He actually splays it out and lays with his "armpit" in the puddle. 

We did run the fencing past the bottom and then threw dirt to covert it on both sides of the enclosure. However, we will be digging it all up and starting from scratch come spring and do it the right way by digging down and laying wire mesh. 

Thanks again for your help!!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

That's just a *great* story. And few people here can outdue me in verbosity...so I applaud you, fellow Novelist.

Freebird has given you a lotta valid replies...I will add a few of my own.

~ There are plastic Pigeon eggs you can get online (wooden ones, too). You switch them out with the real ones...one on one day, the next on the other day. they will sit the eggs a few days past 18 days before they figure out they're duds....then they'll kick 'em out of the nest.

There are a lotta Pigeons in the world...lost Homers, injured Ferals who have been healed but are unreleasable...which need a home. I would be disinclined to breed any new ones.

~ Dunno if ol' Simon is mentally challenged. Pigeons have personalities like people...he may just be a goofball. 

~ Don't take the grunting as negative. This is a typical Pigeon interaction/communication. It doesn't necessarily mean displeasure. From all descriptions and your pics, I think Henrietta (!!) is quite happy with her new life.

~ Avian vet is a great idea if you can find one. In the meantime, if you haven't boned up on it already, just keep in mind the "red flag" warning signs of illness (you can browse the Forum 'stickies' for more)

1) Fluffed up feathers
2) listlessness
3) change in droppings (loose and watery, foamy, or signs of yellow)
4) odd neurological tics (such as missing seed when eating, tossing seeds, head cocked to one side most of time, etc.)

I love that your daughter is so into 'em...that's beautiful !

...."a couple sandwiches short of a picnic"....ROFL...sorry, gotta steal that one (never heard it before...is it regional ?)


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you for your compliment! I don't know if I would consider myself a novelist. It helps having a family where all members are slightly mental (fleshy, furry and feathery all included). I've been told it's our water.

I did indeed look into fake eggs and will plan on getting a handful...just in case. Too bad it wasn't Simon who was the hen. I'd probably get away with switching out the eggs with golf balls. Probably wouldn't even know the difference. 

I agree about not allowing them to hatch eggs. 2 inside pigeons are enough to handle. Our daughter does not like the idea that her future pigeons would be forced to live in a coop. Outside! With NO heat! I'm a "cruel person for even mentioning that" to her. 

I guess it really doesn't matter if Simon Is normal or not. I personally think that he hatched backwards out of the egg, but it adds to the laughter in our house. He's a great conversation piece. If discussion grows stale with our company, we simply put Simon on the coffee table and allow him to entertain our guests with his backwards skating performances. Or the oil lamp. He loves the oil lamp. But you knew that already.

It's relieving to learn that Henri isn't entirely offended by us. She's been doing it so long now, that I think we would worry if she stopped grunting. It's been passed off as her being a "typical woman". Well, that's what my husband says anyway. I tend to disagree. Us ladies are sweet and lovable! How could someone think such a thing! Pfft.

We are very lucky pigeon owners because my uncle owns a vet. hosp. where they have a resident avian specialist. I would bombarde him with my many questions/concerns, but I fear he would grow tired when he's answering them all with "It's normal". So here I am! <smile>

I will keep an eye out for any of the symptoms that you listed. Knock on wood, none are present at this time.

I think every kid should get one! Would love it if we had a local pigeon club. We're planning on searching for 4H groups in the area. 

I wish I could claim that statement as my own, but I think I heard it once before. Think it's a better choice over "Not the sharpest knife in the drawer" statement. I'm not a violent person 

I have to search for a brick today!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Your post's are very amusing with my morning coffee  I find it difficult to be witty at this hour  So your stories give me a 'jump start' and a smile 
I just thought of an 'interesting' aviary for your daughters birds.........How about attaching it to her bedroom window?! She can just open her window to let them in and out, and the bottom would be up off the ground 
I once had a large bird feeder that attached to the outside window sill, you opened the window to fill it, then you sat inside and watched the birds come to eat.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Cool story and I can't think of a better hobby or pet for a kid to grow up with.
Im 26 now but I first got pigeons when I was about 12. check out my frillbacks, the curly pigeons, I bet your daughter would love one of these when she gets her new loft.
I don't like to say it but I think they'll have to go outside to live at some stage, don't you?,... I mean they are just as happy out there and less mess to clean up.
There is so much more to pigeons than what meets the eye. I've had allsorts of other animals as pets and none compare.
Im reasonably new here but would like to welcome you to the group and thank you for letting your daughter keep pigeons. I like to know young people are still taking up the hobby.
I havn't answered any of your questions but i think the others have. Keeping pigeons can be really easy or it can be complicated depending on who you listen to, dont worry if some advise seams over the top, don't worry about simon and his wierd ways just enjoy them while you have them and I would like to think one day Henri the hen gets over herself and shows Si a little love.
They would make some really cute babies.

Luke

Luke


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Msfreebird: What a great idea about the indoor/outdoor aviary, but our daughter's room is on the 2nd floor of our house. I doubt hubby would be too keen about putting an addition on as such. But still, it's a grand idea! Has gotten the gears in my noggin turning . So happy to be an addition to your morning cup of joe! It can get irritating at times. I'll apologize for it now . I'm one of them people who is curse...err...blessed with an internal alarm clock that doesn't allow me to sleep past 3:30 am. 

thepigeonkey: First..Very cool pics of your pigeons. I didn't know they come curly coated! Backward flipping and curly coated pigeons. Who knew? Dare I ask if there's any other surprises out there? I know that the ideal habitat for a pigeon is indeed outside, but explain that to my kid. It was a war lost long ago. She couldn't bear the thought of her pigeons being alone without her protection. This past summer, we were forced to take them camping with us because "they would miss her"(reason I was interested in the flying harnesses). We use their original wire cage (now called the camping cage) that fits nicely on a bunk bed in the camper. Works good as doubling as a secure outside cage. Lock included because "there might be a pigeon thief". We get alot of visitors to our campsite now. <shaking head> What have I gotten myself into?!?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Michy said:


> Ok. Now that you know our story…here come the questions:
> 
> ****Now that I know Homers CAN breed with Rollers and if by chance Henri grows romantic feelings towards Simon, is it a bad thing to let them have eggs? Would it be emotionally/physically damaging if I tossed the eggs as she lays them? Do I change them out with dummy eggs? I don’t want babies, but I don’t want to traumatize the couple either. Probably should have thought of that before getting an opposite sex, huh? I'm hoping that Simon stays faithful to the oil lamp.
> 
> ...


1) My doves like wooden eggs best (some hens can tell the plastic ones are "bad")

2) The diapers currently available are kind of a pain. The only person who used to make them pigeon shaped doesn't do it much any more because of family stuff. The others on the market are too tight at the breast and too thick at the butt. (Because our birds are so busty compared to a parrot.) You can try it, but you might have to do a lot of trying on and returning them. Some birds will accept them, others won't. Most of mine won't.

3) I wouldn't even bother with a flight harness. They should be able to get enough indoors or in their outside cage. Plus, I don't know if that'd work very well with your roller's flight path. The other consideration is that, again, these are made to fit parrots. Even on parrots they aren't 100% always going to be perfect about not letting the bird slip out ever.

4) Pigeons and doves live around 20 years. Some a bit shorter, others a bit longer

5) The switching foots thing Simon does is just a bird thing. He's just being lazy/sleepy and keeping one foot under the nice fuzzy blanket of his feathers.  It's also nice for them to shift weight once in a while. Like when you have had your legs crossed one way for some time and then you switch. 

6) As to weight, it's easier to tell if they are under weight. I've always found it difficult to get a bird "fat" with the right diet and playtimes in the house each day. Your birds should have glossy feathers (though in the summer they will molt and look weird,) not have the breast bone sticking out too much (this is called the keel), and have a bright active eye.

7) They can need nail trimming. Watch the feet when they stand. If the angle of the nail lifts the toe very far off the ground when the bird stands on a flat surface, it's time to clip the nails. When you clip the nails, make sure to have some Kwik stop nearby in case of bleeding. They shouldn't bleed if you watch where the blood ends in the nail and cut further down. Just like a dog or guinea pig basically. You can avoid nail trimming quite a bit by giving the birds a basic red brick (like you'd make a house or patio from) in their cage to sit on. 

8) Henri might just be a bossy little girl. It's ok. If she eats from your hands ever it shows that she's tame. She just wants her way lol. I have a dove much like that who wants to be the boss all the time and acts like an old Persian cat. BTW, if she sits on your daughter--it shows she's super tame.

9) No, Simon just has a different personality. When he puts his wing up he's just working on drying off. My doves regularly sun in patches of light in the same manner. I also have one dove who does this in the water and wants me to drip water under her wings one at a time.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Michy said:


> Msfreebird: What a great idea about the indoor/outdoor aviary, but our daughter's room is on the 2nd floor of our house. I doubt hubby would be too keen about putting an addition on as such. But still, it's a grand idea! Has gotten the gears in my noggin turning . So happy to be an addition to your morning cup of joe! It can get irritating at times. I'll apologize for it now . I'm one of them people who is curse...err...blessed with an internal alarm clock that doesn't allow me to sleep past 3:30 am.
> 
> thepigeonkey: First..Very cool pics of your pigeons. I didn't know they come curly coated! Backward flipping and curly coated pigeons. Who knew? Dare I ask if there's any other surprises out there? I know that the ideal habitat for a pigeon is indeed outside, but explain that to my kid. It was a war lost long ago. She couldn't bear the thought of her pigeons being alone without her protection. This past summer, we were forced to take them camping with us because "they would miss her"(reason I was interested in the flying harnesses). We use their original wire cage (now called the camping cage) that fits nicely on a bunk bed in the camper. Works good as doubling as a secure outside cage. Lock included because "there might be a pigeon thief". We get alot of visitors to our campsite now. <shaking head> What have I gotten myself into?!?


For two pigeons it is ok for them to live inside, though being outside in a properly insulated/protected from predators and pests area would also be just fine.  

As to taking them camping--a lot of people actually take their companion pigeons and doves on vacation with them. I was considering taking Baby and Tamaki the ringnecks with me to South Dakota for Thanksgiving because our original birdsitter fell through. We fortunately just found somebody though.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I'll add that since they are both rescues.....I would be inclined to get an avian vet 'wellness' exam for each of them.

Just a physical exam w/ blood panel and fecal float. Just to see if all is OK as far as internal function, worms, and bacterial presence.

Not cheap, but pretty basic avian vet stuff which is good to get off the bat if one has such a luxury available to them.....

BTW...uppity chicks rule.....


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Welcome to our world of feathered friends. I am fairly new to this site and new to homing pigeons. I have had several types of birds(mostly farm types like quail, chicken, ect.). You need to get some fake eggs for sure as half breeds from these would be worthless for either purpose so you would be adding to an already over populated population needing homes. I have had Fantail pigeons for a couple of years now. If you do not have a good avian vet around atleast worm them in the near future. Indoor birds are not exposed to disease much and are easy to keep healthy with proper diet. 

If you are inclined to increase her hobby I would suggest getting a pair of something that you could raise and have homes for the offspring like ringneck doves, those fancy curly ones called frill backs, ect.. These can actually be sold to help off set her hobby as well as enjoy watching the process of them growing up.

as to your outdoor cage. It needs a wire floor to keep animals from digging under and into the cage. I have fought with ****, possum, snakes, mice(killed all but one finch before I found where they were going), ferret(escaped pet), dogs, cats, hawks(took a dalmation puppy) and more I am sure I forgot to mention. You can not build a critter proof cage I have found out. I have gotten much better over the years. but things seem to always find a new way in you did not see coming. One thing I learned is to put painted roofing metal around the bottom part of the cage. This keeps things like ***** from climbing the wire as it is 3 feet wide. make sure you put a 2x at the right height when making the cage attach the wire first and place the metal over it and screw it down. Make sure the metal goes into the ground a couple inches. You still need the wire bottom. It may sound weird but ***** are so smart they can unlock cages. Have you seen videos of cats opening doors by using the handles? Think along these lines but smarter. I had a cage I had been using for years with no problems. It was a hutch type cage off the ground for quail. A tree had been slowly growing lower limbs which I wanted to shade the birds in our hot summers. As soon as the limbs supported the weight of the **** it crossed over onto the roof of the hutch. I saw some signs due to damage of shingles which I patched. Then came the horor show. The **** learned how to hang upside down and open the latch. It was a slide lock where you pick up on the knob and slide the bolt out of its loop. I swore that dad forgot to lock the cage when feeding when 2 nights later it happened after I fed the birds. It was killing 20-30 birds a night. So plan ahead. All my cages now are out in the open area under large trees with all limbs trimmed 10 feet above the cages.So do not just throw up a cage that will keep the birds in. Make it Fort Knox for keeping everything out.

The birds are cheap to feed and take care of it is there original cost for birds and housing that gets ya.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

honeyrobber said:


> Welcome to our world of feathered friends. I am fairly new to this site and new to homing pigeons. I have had several types of birds(mostly farm types like quail, chicken, ect.). You need to get some fake eggs for sure as half breeds from these would be worthless for either purpose so you would be adding to an already over populated population needing homes. I have had Fantail pigeons for a couple of years now. If you do not have a good avian vet around atleast worm them in the near future. Indoor birds are not exposed to disease much and are easy to keep healthy with proper diet.
> 
> If you are inclined to increase her hobby I would suggest getting a pair of something that you could raise and have homes for the offspring like ringneck doves, those fancy curly ones called frill backs, ect.. These can actually be sold to help off set her hobby as well as enjoy watching the process of them growing up.
> 
> ...


We're coming into the time of year when food is hard to find for predators and their looking to settle in someplace for the winter. I lost half my birds a few years ago to Norway Rats........they found some loose staples and pealed the wire back at the top! So this is a good time to remind people to do daily 'walk arounds' and check their lofts/flight cages. I do it regularly. 
Before building my flight cages, I laid 1/2 inch wire mesh on the ground and built the walls on top of it.....bringing it right up the sides and over the top, completely wrapping the flight cage. Rats are starting to tunnel under my new Fantail loft/flight cage for the winter  I've been out there for 2 weeks running the hose in their holes. When I hoed the sand back on the bottom of the flight cage, I could see their tunnels under the wire mesh! Sooo, I hoed ALL the sand back yesterday and poured concrete in the tunnels, then a put a layer of concrete over the wire mesh and spread the sand back over it! I can't use traps or poison as my backyard is fenced in with dogs, cats and goats. All the research I did on 'repelling rats' came up useless.....most of the repellents don't work on rats. Best repellent for rats is 'barriers'. If they can't get in, they will move on looking for food.
As for latches, I use 2 of the 'safety hooks' on each door (top and bottom), and a hasp (?) w/padlock in the middle.......'I' have trouble opening them


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

How do you manage to get the dogs, cats, and goats to stand still long enough to form a fence ...??????


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Jaye said:


> How do you manage to get the dogs, cats, and goats to stand still long enough to form a fence ...??????


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jaye said:


> How do you manage to get the dogs, cats, and goats to stand still long enough to form a fence ...??????


 LMAO  .........Choking on coffee! And Quazars little guy has me in stitches!!! 
I overslept......thanks for the 'boost'!


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Again...Thank you to everyone who has replied with helpful input!! 

Jaye: I made the appointment for the birdies. They get to visit good 'ol uncle George next week. I'll be sure to give them your addy to send their hate mail to as I told them it was your idea.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> We're coming into the time of year when food is hard to find for predators and their looking to settle in someplace for the winter. I lost half my birds a few years ago to Norway Rats........they found some loose staples and pealed the wire back at the top! So this is a good time to remind people to do daily 'walk arounds' and check their lofts/flight cages. I do it regularly.
> Before building my flight cages, I laid 1/2 inch wire mesh on the ground and built the walls on top of it.....bringing it right up the sides and over the top, completely wrapping the flight cage. Rats are starting to tunnel under my new Fantail loft/flight cage for the winter  I've been out there for 2 weeks running the hose in their holes. When I hoed the sand back on the bottom of the flight cage, I could see their tunnels under the wire mesh! Sooo, I hoed ALL the sand back yesterday and poured concrete in the tunnels, then a put a layer of concrete over the wire mesh and spread the sand back over it! I can't use traps or poison as my backyard is fenced in with dogs, cats and goats. All the research I did on 'repelling rats' came up useless.....most of the repellents don't work on rats. Best repellent for rats is 'barriers'. If they can't get in, they will move on looking for food.
> As for latches, I use 2 of the 'safety hooks' on each door (top and bottom), and a hasp (?) w/padlock in the middle.......'I' have trouble opening them


You can safely poison them with cheap soda (while it is still carbonated). Rats etc can't pass gas and so if you give them anything sweet and carbonated it works pretty well without making a danger to your dogs/cats (just be sure that it has natural sugars in it and not artificial--there are certain artificial sweeteners that are pretty dangerous to dogs/cats.) Just put it out of reach of the birds.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself....semantics can be so funny, sometimes...



Michy said:


> Jaye: I made the appointment for the birdies. They get to visit good 'ol uncle George next week. I'll be sure to give them your addy to send their hate mail to as I told them it was your idea.


Well, tell him the suggestion came from another George....he'll probably cut me some slack....

I dunno, poisoning like that...interesting method, but I don't think there's a _good_ way to poison, really...


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you for reading!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

shorty2 said:


> I really enjoyed your pigeon story, thanks for sharing !!


DITTO!!!!


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## Shadowringneck23 (Jul 5, 2012)

*General Care*

You will need to clip their nails monthly. They usually live in captivity for about 20-25 years, but 30-35 years is not impossible. I have never used pigeon diapers, I would just recommend cleaning after them while they are allowed free-flight time. If they decide to mate you should replace the eggs with dummy eggs and properly bury the other ones in respect. If you would love to have more pigeons, then simply let them mate.


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## notoriousqueenpigeon (Apr 15, 2011)

Oh the rats. THey are CLEVER. I removed an unused shed in my yard. They were living under it, and afterwards, moved to under the gazebo balcony. They tunneled all the way to my loft, which is a good 7 yards. I mosaic patio stones over the already clay soil in Toronto area. It worked, along with leaving the loft scrapings in the compost at the back of the yard, and just allowing the rodents to relocate to the back of the yard. They have not moved back into the living space of my yard. LIve in harmony with nature. They don't bother me, I don;'t see them. The thing with rats is, they are ALWAYS lurking. Next time I build a loft, it will be off of the ground. at least 16 inches to 2 feet.


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