# Please help - Baby Pigeon!!!



## Rachel25 (May 2, 2009)

I currently have three baby pigeons from two nests. There were four but one died when the parents abandoned it. The two that look a little older are doing fabulous and eating Kaytee Exact like champs. The sibling of the one that died is smaller and his situation is perplexing me. I am not new to raising orphaned pigeons and have successfully raised many but I am at a loss with this little one and do not know what is wrong with him or how to correct it.

These babies came to me after the roof they were on was torn off for new construction but before the roof work began one set of parents left for good (one baby died and one was left). The one that was abandoned I rehydrated and then began feeding thin exact and gradually increased thickness. I noticed very quickly that he was having a hard time digesting and began to get sour crop so I was forced to try and flush it out. I went back to fluids and built up slowly again with exact but he still had issues digesting all. 5/6 hours would go by and there would still be exact in there but it was not turning sour. He is very active and hungry all the time. He must be digesting some because he poops but it is not alot which I typically expect from baby pigeons. I have also noticed that his crop seems saggy and always seems to have air in it. It is not an air sac. I have seen those before and it is not that. I have never encountered this before and don't know what is wrong.

I have gone back to fluids again with some probiotics and also trying apple sauce. I am worried now that he is not getting enough nutrients.

There are no reputable avian vets locally although I do have access to some medications that can be used for birds.

Please help - I really don't want to lose this little one.

Not really good at aging pigeons but he has feathers with some yellow fluff. I'm sure he should be bigger though.

Rachel


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

kaytee formula is known for sour crop. its just nasty and i would never feed a baby pigeon with that formula. it makes them malnurished.. and they just grown up to be skinny babies.. weaker than the rest of the pigeons..
you said it yourself he shure should be bigger..
switch his food....
get some cherious.. soak it in the water.. get a surringe and feed that baby about 40 cc of it per one feed.. 
give him some bread. give him something other than that yellow formula thats not even designed for pigoens.. but litle parakeets and cockatiels. 
Get a coffee grinde.. grind some bird seed.. feed that to him.. 
switch the diet and he'll be ok.. lower down on that liquid.. formula is liquid.. than u giving him fluids. no wonder his crop saggy..
I only raised one baby pigeon on that formula when i knew nothing about pigeons..
cook some rice.. mix it with little water.. and it goes thry the surringe just fine..
even noodles from the soup cooked fit the surringe just well. 
feral pigeons feed their chicks with just about anything.. 
coffee grinder. and whatever i listed .. just switch it up and you'll notice the difference.. baby is trying to tell u im hungry give me some real food..
cherious is rich with vitamins. even baby food..wheat etc...


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I love ya Googa...but really...Kaytee Exact is absolutely great stuff and it's completely balanced. It doesn't malnourish nor does it cause sour crop all by itself.

Also it is silly to suggest that the baby's size is the result of the Kaytee.

Unusual comments from someone who is usually more accurate...

Rachel, you are on the right track with the applesauce. You wanna try to get the PH balanced and get the crop working for itself. Yes, it could very well be that this little one was the runt so was underfed to begin with, even in the nest.

Go here, tell us his age...or post a pic.

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

I might be inclined to begin a wide-spectrum antibiotic such as Cipro/Baytril or Amoxycillin..the baby may well have been somewhat neglected since birth so could have some underlying infection issues. Perhaps also giving Metronidazole or Ronidazole wouldn't hurt, either.


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## Rachel25 (May 2, 2009)

I would say 16-17 days old. I have metronidazole so maybe I should give that a go. I will keep you posted


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree 100% with Jaye's suggestions. I've raised all of my babies on Kaytee and never had a problem. I just switched to Zupreem hand feeding formula because the supplier where I work doesn't carry Kaytee anymore, and I get it at 'cost' thru them, so I figured I'd try Zupreem. It's suppose to be an excellent line of food.
I've had a couple babies with slow, saggy crops. I added the apple sauce, and gave them about 25mg of metronidazole once a day and it helped.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is it not possible to get the droppings checked to see if you can find out what you're dealing with? I agree with Jaye in that this guy needs probably something like Baytril. And maybe Metronidazole. Unusual for his parents to have left their babies. Maybe just left to start another nest somewhere, and were only returning to feed. Or maybe were sick? Can you mix a bit of baby rice cereal into the apple sauce? That is easily digested and would give a bit of something. Could be a blockage, or could even be canker causing one. If his crop is stretched, maybe feeding too much at one time? A stretched crop will also give problems with the crop emptying. Is he gulping air when you feed him? How are you feeding him? Is he being kept with a heating pad set on low? If food is not warm enough, or if the bird isn't warm enough you will also see problems with the crop emptying. 

As for the Kaytee, I've used it often and never had a problem with it. If someone had problems, than it was from something else other than the formula.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Metro is good...I would really suggest you get some Amoxy or Baytril/Cipro asap, also. The Metro is good for some things, but is a much more focused antibiotic than the latter two.

Jedds.com can express mail Amoxycillin (you have to CALL them, not order using the online system). If you need cipro, PM me w/ your address and I can express mail you some.

At 17 days old you can start them on solids, as well. Thawed and slightly warm peas, for example. However, if you wanna try this, DO make sure the mouth and throat show no signs of canker...and start him/her out slowly...maybe 5 morsels in the first few feedings working up to 10 per feeding.

We all concur there seems to be other maladies going on with the baby. You can pull him/her out of this. Start the Metro now (do you have the correct dosages) ? And get the other med quickly.

Thanks for caring.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

soo any update on the baby? is he stil with us??


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## Rachel25 (May 2, 2009)

Update - the little guy or gal is still with me but I really feel is a special needs baby for some reason. The other two are doing fabulous but have way outgrown the little one and are now twice his/her size. 

I gave metro and maybe it helped because the Exact began to start being digested, he/she gained some weight but is still growing at a snail's pace and should be much bigger by now. Since he was eating so well and the others were getting so big I decided to introduce some starter seed. They got straight to eating it which was pretty impressive but now again with the smallest one there is a problem. He does not seem to be digesting the seeds - they have been in there all day! Something must be digesting because he poops now and again but not that often.

I can't understand what the problem is? He is active and alert and squeaks at me all the time. 

Does anybody have any ideas?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I seem to have one of those right now! Cocoa is 6 weeks old right now and smaller than my 4 week old babies. She's also still getting 1 bottle feeding a day! VERY unusual for 6 weeks old!
I brought her in when she was 1 week old. She just wasn't 'right'. The day she hatched, the hen just ignored her and she was off to the side, on her back kicking her little feet in the air 
A couple days after I brought her inside, I noticed one side of her skull started to look 'bigger' and the eye on that side swelled up and closed. She got a 10 day coarse of metronidazole and smz-tmp, but she never really ate that much at feedings......I was always worried about her. I also gave her a half dose of pyrantel (wormer) when she was done with her antibiotics. Her growth rate is very slow, incoming feathers, tail, everything. She has all her body feathers now, but her neck and head are still pin feathers! She is a veracious eater right now (attacks her bottle and pecks at food), as if she is trying to catch up on lost feedings
She has a large body, short stubby tail, long thin neck, small head and large eyes. Ah, picture E.T. when he stretched his neck out! She is also a very odd color....spotted like a leopard all over - dilute red/brown. I've noticed that whenever I have sick or weaker birds, they are dilute in color. Don't know if thats a coincidence or if color has bearing on health.
So, I'm just trying to say YES, I've seen your problem. I would just hang in there with the feedings, mix some apple sauce in with the formula, do a course of antibiotics. If she's eating, drinking and active...that's good. You will always feel 'some' seeds in the crop. I would also put a small dish of grit in for her. What has she had for antibiotics?


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i use kaytee too and have had great success, tried the zupreem and it seemed the same but was more expensive so i stick with kaytee


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't let the little one eat a lot of seeds all at once. I would go slow with him. Did you get in touch with Jaye for the Cipro? He may have something bacterial going on. Maybe give him a bit of warmed baby applesauce, and massage his crop very gently. May help him to pass the seed. Do you wait until the crop empties before you feed him again? Are they drinking on their own?


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## Rachel25 (May 2, 2009)

Good news everybody - he digested all the seeds. Maybe I was just being overly anxious. I am going to take it slow and make sure he does not eat too many at once. I am offering water but have not seen them do anything with it yet. I am trying to reduce the number of exact feedings but am still making sure they have something. Yes- I always wait till the crop is empty before feeding again. I have amoxi and baytril at home if needed. 

Hopefully this baby will keep growing even if it is slow. Maybe this one and it's sibling had something wrong with them and that's why the sibling died.

I'll update in a few days.

Thanks all


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much formula are they getting? If they are eating seed, they should also be drinking as they need the water. If you fill a small crock with tepid water, and gently lower their beak into it (not up past their nostrils), they will eventually learn to drink.


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## Rachel25 (May 2, 2009)

The bigger ones are getting around 40cc each feeding and they are nibbling on seeds. The small one can only take about 20cc right now. I think any more and it would burst the crop. I will try putting their beaks into the water as you suggested. As simple as it sounds I never really thought of trying that before. All the ones I have had previously have just figured it out but this could help I'm sure.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well, the good news is that the little one's crop and digestive system is working. Are you still giving antibiotic ? Be sure you finish the course. 

And I agree with you...don't become overzealous about feeding him/her more than she can hold. Despite her/his true age, you have to treat him/her like a pigeon several weeks younger, because physiologically...that's what he/she is, really.


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