# Help! Found a sick pigeon



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I found a pigeon hopping across a busy road this morning, trying to fly but not getting off the ground. My boyfriend took him to the vet who said his wings were fine but he hasn't been eating so he must be sick (that was their entire diagnosis) they said to leave him with them and the RSPCA would handle it. 
That obviously meant killing him but we didn't want to give up on him so we have him at home now. He's in a box in a dark warm room. He has had access to food (corn & bird seed) and water but hasn't had any himself all day.

I found a thread on here that said to pop 40 pieces of corn into his mouth, we done 30 and also gave him some water with a syringe.

Am I doing the right thing?

What else can I do for him? I don't want to stress him out and I desperately want to help him but I don't know what to do! 

He has pooed in the box a few times & it's green - is that OK?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Also I think he is warm enough, I seen the thread about heat pads and keeping them warm, is this always necessary or just if they are obviously cold? I'm scared of making him too warm!


----------



## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The usual procedure is to make the pigeon warm, then hydrate, and lastly feed. You have done great so far. 
You need not give the water with the syringe, because it is risky and could aspirate the bird if the water goes down the wrong pipe. To give water, just dip the tip of the beak into a bowl of water, and let him suck in the water by himself. Take care not to submerge the nostrils on the beak.
After giving the corn, did he give normal poops? Normal poops are khaki brown with a tinge of white, and soft in consistency. If there is any abnormality in the poop...bright green, yellow etc or diarrheash, smelly etc, then it could indicate a problem. 
You can give 30 corn twice a day, then increase to thrice a day gradually. Make sure he drinks water (they usually want water after a feeding)..
A heat pad is good if the bird is sick, since it cannot regulate its body temperature well.
Posting a photo will help. Not flying could be because of many reasons, maybe it is too young, or it has leg/wing fracture or injury. Does it walk around well?


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Can you tell us roughly where you are? I agree absolutely about the RSPCA but there may be a rescue centre or a pigeon rescuer near you that could help you.

A photo would be good. Also a photo or description of his poops.

Vets often miss things (one I consulted missed a ruptured crop three times even though I specifically said I thought the crop was leaking) so give him a brief examination.

When examining a pigeon I find it a lot easier on me and the bird to wrap it lightly in an old tea towel, or pillow case, or small hand towel, shielding the head and examining one part of the body at a time.

You should also check the inside of its mouth which should be clean and pink. Cheesy growths in the mouth could indicate canker. Tell us if you see slime or white dots.

Check its vent (under the tail). Sometimes a sick pigeon will get poop hardened over its vent, this will need washing off gently with a soft cloth or kitchen towel and warm water with a bit of salt added.

In hot weather it is particularly important to check it for maggots/fly strike. The unhatched maggots will look like grains of white rice and will be found in the area of any wound, orifices such as the vent and sometimes at the base of feathers.

Check the front of its breast for damage which could indicate a ruptured crop.This is common in pigeons, it is repairable but will need a vet to suture both layers of the crop.

Check under its wings for wounds which could indicate it had been caught by a cat, hawk or dog..* Cats carry the pasteurella bacteria in their saliva and a pigeon can die of pasteurella septicemia within 24 hours, so it is important that it is treated with antibiotics (preferably one that combines amoxicillin with clavulanic acid such as Synulox, Clavamox , Kesium or Clavaseptin) as early as possible.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I have some photos I will try to upload them.

He seems like he has no energy, he can take a step maybe two but then flops down.

I am going to buy a get pad now.

Can't see anything maggoty and no wounds.

I am not really sure where the crop is, I googled it but am not sure what I'm looking for.

After he has teen corn he still doesn't drink


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I am in Hull, UK. I will have a look to see if there are any possible rescue places nearby.

I have just went and bought a snuggle pad that you microwave, he seems warm anyway so should I still put it down? Shall I sit him on top of it?

After eating his last bit of corn I gently put his beak into some water and he shook his head, he really didn't want any. 

Thank you so much for helping, I will do anything I can to save him but I am vastly under qualified so I really really appreciate your help!


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)




----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)




----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

OK so as you can see his bum was dirty and there were clumps of poo, I've cleaned it as best as I can now, but I couldn't get rid of some of it. There was a clump that I cut out of his feathers though.

Inside his mouth is wet but I don't know if it's a good colour?

There's a pic of his poo on there and all of them look like that

I've read that I'm supposed to check that his crop is emptying between feeds, but honestly I have no idea what an empty one and a full one feel like. I'm terrified that I'm going to do him more harm than good


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Update: I found a local(ish) rescuer who told me that his poo being green signals an infection. I called the vet and they're giving me some antibiotics to give him.

This is after them yesterday saying that they couldn't give him any medication because he was wildlife and if a fox were to eat him then medication would end up in the food chain. Douchebags.


----------



## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

He looks quite ill and all fluffed up. Keep him warm. You can keep him atop the heating pad(with a towel between the pad and him). Keep him in a confined space yet give room so he can move out of the pad if it gets too warm.
It is absolutely necessary he gets water. If you are giving defrosted corn, maybe he is getting water from it already. His poops look ok to me, I don't think he is dehydrated. But offer him water after every feed, to make sure he doesn't go without water.
His poop color is fine in my opinion. But sitting fluffed up like that is not quite right. 
He looks like a juvenile, a young pigeon who has just started out on his own. 
Hope he gets better with all the food and nourishment. Keep up the feeding, and keep him warm.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Frozen peas which have been defrosted would be better than giving him corn. Corn is harder to digest, and he is already compromised. Peas are easier to digest and there fore would be much easier on him. Later on you can add corn back in.
The vet could have checked the droppings to see what kind of bacteria he had. Green droppings can mean different things.
He could have very small injuries that you can't see. A small scratch or pin hole from a claw or tooth can hide under the feathers. If that were the case then he can die of an infection without antibiotics. What medication did they give you?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I just went and got some peas so I'll try those next.

They gave me Baytril. I just gave him his first dose.

When I got home he seemed slightly more alert than earlier! Also when I was giving him the medicine, he struggled to get away and managed a few steps and a good flap of his wings.

I'm pretty sure he had eaten something on his own too as I left food in there for him.

The lady I spoke to said to get some little paint brushes and to dip them in a water/sugar/salt solution and to paint it on his beak and slightly in it to try and get him to drink. Other than that I don't know how I could get him to drink any water.

I put him on a snuggle pad and he moved straight off. I done this 3 times until he settled on it. When I came home he had moved off it again. It's rather warm in here anyway so I'm hoping his temperature is OK.

Hmm well if it's not an infection of any kind then no one seems to know what it could possibly be. People keep telling me different things and they can't all be right which panics me. I hope I'm not hurting him.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Yayyy he's eating peas all on his own! And he just stood up and took a few steps!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The vet should have checked the droppings. That way you would know just what the bacteria were, and what to treat it with. 

As far as drinking, all you can do is to gently dip his beak into the water and see if he will eventually drink. If he is young then he may not yet know how to drink. Hold the beak on either side with your thumb and fore finger, and gently dip his beak into some tepid water. Actually, he should have been rehydrated and warmed before being fed. The peas do hold some moisture, so that will help until he learns to drink. Do the beak dippin several times a day so that he will learn. Just be sure to not go over his nostrils.

Also, when you feed him, try to feel the crop under his throat and make sure it is empty before feeding again. Or check to be sure he has several droppings from the last feeding. Start with 30 or so peas a few times a day. Maybe every 6 hours. Then you can work up to 40 and 50 at a time.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Thank you!

I will keep doing that with the water.

The vet was horrendous. If they had their way they would have killed him by now. They said yesterday, take him home and if he's not better bring him in in the morning and we'll euthanise him. Of course he's not going to get better if you refuse to treat him or do ANYTHING to help him.

He's so cute, he loves these peas, he's got a great appetite now!

Do you think I should find another vet then tomorrow to ask about his poop?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Also, is it possible for him to over eat? He gobbled those peas up so quickly, will he know when he is full or should I control the amount he eats?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

So do I check the crop even if he is eating it himself, or just if I am hand feeding him?

(sorry for all the questions just wanna make sure I get it right)


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

He is a young woodpigeon. Can you photograph the tail to determine whether he is fully fledged? 

Woodies that hatch at this time if year can suffer from metabolic bone disease that weakens their legs. Sometimes their beaks are soft and rubbery too. Calcium and vitamin D3 supplements can help eg Calcivite, Calcivet, Zolcl D, Gem Liquid calcium.

Is his rear end swollen or do you feel a lump there? It is hard to tell from the photo.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

They love peas at that age and often wean themselves when we try to hand feed and are too slow so they grab them from our hands. A healthy woody can easily cope with 80+ peas in one go, but it is best to feed them small amounts initially to make certain that they are digesting them properly


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Sorry, I can see the tail now, he should be able to fly. Hull is not the best place for animal rescue, the nearest pigeon friendly rescue centres that I know of are in Scarborough and in Lincoln.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am not certain that those poops are unhealthy ones for a wood pigeon, considering their diet. I will ask a rescue centre to have a look at the photo.

In the meantime, here is some info on wood pigeons that might help.

Hand raised wood pigeons will quickly imprint on humans and be too trusting but wild* fledglings, juveniles and adults can be extremely scatty and liable to panic.* 

If you approach a wild adult move very slowly and handle it gently.* 

If it opens its mouth and starts to pant stop whatever you are doing, leave it alone...fear can produce adrenalin rush and a heart attack. However, if you come across* a wood pigeon that is already breathing with an open mouth in could be suffering from canker.

Looking at a captive wild woodie in the eye can be extremely stressful for them and is best avoided.*

If you have an adult sick or injured woodie in a cage, cover part or all of the cage.

*At 16 days of life* a nestling wood pigeon weighs between 230 gms for those reaching the 16 day stage in June and July, but on average 288 grams for those reaching the same age in August and September when the availability of food (ripe grain) is increased.

*The young leave the nest at about 22 days of life, but their parents continue to feed them for at least another week, probably two or longer.

They* have a varied diet with their food choice varying according to seasonal availability. * In captivity the enjoy sunflower hearts,* pea shoots, lettuce, rocket, chard and*water cress, mixed corn and pigeon mixes.*

In the wild their foods include pea and bean shoots and leaves, clovers, the leaves of speedwell, plantains, ribwort, dandelion, filed madder, chickweed and knotweed, tree flowers and leaf buds from ash, hazel, beech, willow, oak,* elm, hawthorn and elderberry, fragments of harvested sugar beet, turnip and potato, the berries of the ivy (hedera Helix), elderberry, buckthorn, hawthorn,* rosehip, blackberry, dogwood , blackthorn. They also eat* wild oat, cultivated cereals, common vetch, wild pansy, grass seeds, beechnuts, acorns and hazelnuts.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

He does have a little lump around his bum yes - what can this mean? It was softish and I thought it was just a normal part of his anatomy. 

The lady I called said she can take him after tomorrow if I need her to.

I can go and get those supplements tomorrow. 

Do you think I should carry on with the medicine or not?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I weighed him and he is 284 grams, just in case that helps understand anything any more


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

This is the place I called http://www.selbywildlife.co.uk/


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I noticed that he is nervous around me, he was eating the peas and then when he seen me looking at him he stopped.

So I have put him in a room alone where it is warm and quite dark and keep popping in to check on him. I don't have anything other than this box to put him in, I wonder should I drape something over the top of it then so he is covered?


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If you can get him to Selby that would be great. He will be fine with the arrangements you have made for him. Please let us know how you get along and if Annette (I think it is her that runs Selby) finds anything when she examines him.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

BTW the consensus is that those poops look OK for a woodie that has been eating greens.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Great thank you. I will call her first thing and try to get him there, and will of course keep you posted, thank you so much for your help


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Trying to get hold of Annette at Selby but no luck getting through as yet.

In the meantime I just re read what you wrote and his beak *is *soft and rubbery. I thought this was strange, but then I've never touched a pigeon's beak before so I didn't know it wasn't normal. 

While I'm waiting to hear back from her I'm going to get him those supplements you suggested and if there's anything else you know about this condition please do let me know!


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Where do I get them from? I assumed somewhere like pets at home but they only do Zolcl and it is only for home delivery.

Is there anywhere I'd be able to get some from today?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

He looks less fluffed up today I think? Hope that's a good sign!


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I buy supplements online or get them from my vet who is an exotic specialist and has a little shop in the reception area. I can get a little tube full in the post to you if you PM me your address , but that won't arrive until Tuesday at the earliest.

Alternatively if you let me have some contact details I can try to PM or tag Annette on Facebook, she is a member of one of my rescue groups on FB.

He doesn't particularly fluffed up to me, what are his poops like today and how is he doing with food and water? If you place a litt;e ramekin of canary seed next to him he might eat it, that is what happened with a much, much younger woodie in my care.


----------



## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely photo...the peas add to its beauty 
He looks more alert...thanks for taking such good care of him.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

A few years ago I adopted a baby dove from this forum, she  was so badly affected by calcium deficiency that her legs were completely flaccid and dragged behind her as she pulled herself along with her wings. She made a complete recovery. I am posting this link so you can read her story and see the video of her after she had calcium therapy (and a bit if help supporting her legs and feet in the right position ). I wish I had taken a "before" video, but when I got her I really believed her case was hopeless. 

You have to scroll down to the second section on this page http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/legs.htm


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

I found that story myself when I was googling earlier! I was very excited at the thought of him getting better :-D It makes sense that he has that because his little legs are very wobbly and he sort of stumbles around. 

He had a good flap of his wings and a stretch a couple of times and he barely moved at all yesterday and the day before 

Thanks so much for the offer of sending the vitamins, but I've just been and got some calcium from Pets at Home so will start him on that right away. 

I got in touch with Annette but I can't get there yet since no one can drive me and she advised against taking him on the train which makes sense, but hopefully he can go to her tomorrow or Tuesday. I couldn't get any vitamin D3 but she says she has everything he needs and to just give him the calcium for now.

I *think* he drank some water on his own because when I left the room and came back there was some spilled next to the ramekin that it's in  I've also been painting some on his beak but he really doesn't seem to like that so I don't want to push it and startle him.

He's still happily munching away on peas, he's so funny though he won't eat them if he knows I'm watching him! I caught him a couple of times but as soon as he knows I'm there he stops. I leave him alone and when I come back they're always gone.

His poo is a darker green today and looks a like normal pigeon poo that I've seen in the street. More solid than the slime he was producing yesterday.

I am so hopeful!!


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

He has attempted to fly a couple of times now, he was really struggling but really determined and flapping his wings like mad but couldn't take off.

I guess now I'm going to have to find something fully contained to keep him in so he doesn't hurt himself, argh!


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

He just started panting too :-/


----------



## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps the flapping exercise is exhausting for him, hence the panting. As he becomes familiar to his new surroundings, and gains strength, he will be more calm. Once he is ready to fly, he will probably choose the highest spot in the room, and stay there, coming down only for food and water.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If his throat is fluttering then the panting is related to overheating, otherwise it is a bad sign of severe stress in wood pigeons which can lead to heart failure so he needs it is best uf fir the time being he id absolutely quiet, contained, shaded and undisturbed.


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Yeah I read what you'd said about panting so I just left him alone. When I came in this morning he was out of the box which meant he had to have flew out of it and when I tried to pick him up to put him back he walked with a limp but much much better than he's ever done!

I can't get him to take this calcium, it says to give 5ml in 1kg of food, so I made up the right amount mixed into some ready break which was teeeeeny. Put the ready break down in a ramekin but he only wants to eat the peas.

He is getting stronger though so I wonder if the antibiotics are doing something and he did have an infection after all?


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Oh I just reread what you wrote - his throat was fluttering.

He was sat on the heat pad and up until then he refused to sit on it. I guess he knew what was best for himself! Haven't put the heat pad in again because he either ignores it or gets too hot on it


----------



## Nickynocky (Apr 12, 2014)

Just an update in case anyone has a similar situation going on they might get something from it. 

Turns out Hugo (I named him since he's my little friend now) does have metabolic bone disease. I found a fantastic vet at Swanbridge who instantly knew when he looked at him, he bent his beak which was like rubber which confirmed it. 

He has gained tons of strength in the last 2 days and he has been prescribed a couple of hours of sunlight per day (or a UV light) plus calcium supplement (sprinkled onto his food) and a varied diet high in protein. 

The vet expects him to be ready to fly off on his own in a few weeks. 

I am horrified at the first vet's solution of killing him if he's no better by the next day, failing to diagnose something that this vet seen instantly and am in the process of formally complaining. I am so glad I found this forum which gave me hope and encouraged me to not take the first vet at her idiotic word! 

Me and Hugo thank you immensely!


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Well done, both for not heeding the first vet's advice and for finding a knowledgeable and compassionate vet. I will add the exta information on treatment to my website.

Could you pm me the good vet's details? There are so few vets that are knowledgeable about pigeons, it helps to know who to recommend.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

So glad you were able to find a good vet.


----------

