# Dillemma-Fly free or not?



## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

Hi all,
Many of you have been so helpful as I've raised Pomba, and I have a dillemma that I'd appreciate any input into. I've hand-reared Pomba from the age of 7 days. Her parents abandoned him/her on my balcony when management decided to paint. When Pomba was about 3 weeks old, I started to place him/her out on my balcony for short periods, and she began to interact with a pair of babies 1 week younger than her (oddly, their parents didn't abandon them). At about 1 month, Pomba started to fly away for very brief periods. Now she leaves about mid-morning, comes back several times throughout the day, and returns in the late afternoon to stay. I see her flying with other pigeons in the complex. 

I decided to "partially" release Pomba b/c I work very long days (up to 16 hours/day on the weekdays), and didn't want Pomba to be too lonely. I'm very nervous, however, and realize that she's at much greater risk for getting killed this way. Right now she comes and goes as she pleases (I leave my balcony door slightly cracked.) This makes me nervous too b/c I try to pigeon-proof my apartment, but I know it's possible to miss things. (and my carpet can only take so much pigeon poop! - though this is not a huge deal. )

I know I can never release her entirely (and wouldn't want to). When I'm home, she spends a good 2-3 hours with me snuggling before she decides to fly off. When I get ready for work in the morning, she rides around on my head. She's even tried to join my in the shower a couple times!!! 

so . . .
1. Should I keep my balcony door closed when I'm gone so she's not in the house alone? And only have her in when I'm home?
2. Should I stop letting her fly free b/c it's so dangerous and get her a companion? (would she accept another pigeon at this point?)
3. Other ideas?????

Thank you,
Rachel


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Rachel,

If she is your pet and is very tame, you should not let her outside by herself. There are many dangers out there and she may not be very predator savey since she was handraised by you.

We have seen alot of very sad and heartbreaking stories of pet pigeons being lost to predators, and I know if the owners had it to do over again they would never have allowed their birds to fly free.

Keep her contained in a large cage while you are gone and let her fly around free inside your home when you are home. You could also get her a friend if you think she is lonely. Also we have a member who has created wonderful bird wear, like diapers for in-home birds. They are made individually to fit each birds size. Puts back the quality time you spend with your free flying birds.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Everything that Treesa said is exactly what I was going to say. Should be pretty easy to find a companion for her. And maybe you have a room that you could "bird-proof" so she can have the run of it while you're away. Pigeon diapers are wonderful and keep the house poop-free, too.  I'd hate to have anything happen to her. I have had many house pigeons and aviary pigeons who came from being free-fliers, and I've yet to have *one single bird* who seems at all unhappy being kept a "prisoner" (not flying free). They all have settled in and enjoy the easy life, and I don't have to feel guilty for keeping them from flying outside. Instead, I rest assured that they are all safe and content.


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## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

*Getting the diaper on?*

Any suggestions on getting the diaper on? I've tried a couple times, and she squirms the whole time. She doesn't fly away, but she'll fly from my head to my shoulder to my lap, etc. . .

She hates being in a cage - right now I have a small one b/c I only put her in it at night. I can get a bigger one or I can keep her in my bathroom while I'm gone. Will she get used to this eventually? About her being tame - She's tame to me only . . .she gets very uneasy when guests come over. I don't have other pets (except caged rats) so she hasn't gotten used to cats or dogs. And she flies around with a flock of other pigeons during the day. So I'm entirely sure how tame she/he actually is . . .


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## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

*also -*

Also, part of my problem is that I'm getting such mixed messages. When I talked to a local bird rehab group, they were very adament that I should do absolutely everything possible to allow the bird to fly free . . .that a wild animal is not meant to be caged (or apartmented, etc) . . .and that death is a risk worth taking for an animal's freedom. I don't necessarily agree with that (thus the reason for my post), but a certainly have a degree of guilt anytime I have her in her cage or closed into my bathroom . . .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can understand how you feel. I raised 6 babies at the same time, and had planned a soft release. Then a squirrel chewed through the enclosure, and some of them got out. I was frantic. I realised that they didn't know anything about hawks, or how to find food, or about eating junk food, etc. Well, they came back, but one took a couple of days, as I work and probably wasn't here at different times of the day, when he tried to get back in. I realised how much I cared about them, and am now in the process of building a loft and aviary. I'm torn too, because I kinda feel that they should be able to choose whether they want to stay or join the little flock outside. I'm adding a little door to let them out from, and get them back in from, but the longer I have them, I more I realise how difficult it will be to let them out. There are the two different schools of thought. 
One is that they should be allowed to fly free,and that birds were given wings to fly. Which is true. And the other is that "what we have tamed, we are responsible for." Responsible to care for them and keep them safe. Which is also true. Being hand raised, they don't have a lot of the instincts that the free ferrals have. They haven't learned of the dangers out there. They don't really know how to survive. In a perfect world, you could let them fly free and enjoy the flock, then return safely to you each night. But this is far from a perfect world. So, I guess the decision is a personal one. Sometimes quality of life is more important then the length of it. So now, you have to decide how much quality he has with you, and how much with the flock. Does one outweigh the other? Foys has some great stuff called Poop Off. It removes pigeon poop from everything, including your carpets. And he would probably love a companion. They could keep each other company during your hours away. They are very social, and probably aren't happy if left alone all day. But it certainly wouldn't be hard to find a friend for him here. Many people would be more than happy to fill that order. Some people think it mean to own a dog if you work all day. They too are social and like company. I always have at least two for company. That way, they are not alone, and I don't feel so badly about being away during the day. Some people even set up a room for them. Like a giant aviary. If you have room, that's a great idea. Unfortunately, not everybody has the room. Give it some thought. Only you can make the right decision for you, according to your belief system. Let us know what you decide to do. Good luck. I'm still struggling with that one myself, so I'll be looking forward to reading peoples comments.


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

So how long has she been flying free during the day? It sounds to me that she has gotten the hang of it and might be OK. I raised a couple pigeons 15 years ago that lived very similar to the way you described. Come and go as they please, you know. they stuck around for probably 4 or 5 years, and that was in rural Georgia, many many hawks around.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Take a look at this link from the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/release-criteria-for-birds-amp-animals-11919.html

It can get confusing but it's best to make the choice and follow through. If you are 'cuddling' w/the bird, it's not good to also let the bird out free flying w/a feral flock because you in essence are asking the bird to straddle both worlds of human dependance and feral flock life. The bird will not have the same survival skills that the rest of the flock will have and these are the kinds of cues that falcons and hawks pick up on.

The bird will become acclimated to life as a pet if this is your choice. Some folks use dog carriers such as the one in the following link because of the spaciousness:

http://www.dog.com/item/general-cage-cozy-crate-pet-crate/

You can get a companion bird for your pigeon or not, either way the bird will
adapt. It sounds as though the bird is pretty bonded to you which doesn't
make the pij a good candidate for release. BTW, pigeons are feral and not
wild which makes them pretty adaptable to living w/humans.

fp


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

feralpigeon said:


> You can get a companion bird for your pigeon or not, *either way the bird will
> adapt.* It sounds as though the bird is pretty bonded to you which doesn't
> make the pij a good candidate for release. BTW, *pigeons are feral and not
> wild which makes them pretty adaptable to living w/humans.*fp




Agreed, They will enjoy life with you alone or with a friend.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> When I talked to a local bird rehab group, they were very adament that I should do absolutely everything possible to allow the bird to fly free . . .that a wild animal is not meant to be caged


That entertaining. I have a couple ferals that won't leave that were not hand raised. I think each pigeon is different. I would go from the actions of your pigeon and your gut feeling and not the rehab group.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

feralpigeon said:


> Take a look at this link from the Resource Section:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/release-criteria-for-birds-amp-animals-11919.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info feralpigeon. Helpful.


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## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

*about a companion?*

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions . . .

Jeepsterwannabe - he/she flies free all day and tends to come home around 4pm. 

About the companion idea . . .I don't have cats or dogs b/c I work too long at this point and can't keep them company. I have two rats so they can keep each other company. I didn't intend on having a pigeon, but I've been blessed by one! 

So, there seem to be several ideas on getting a companion or not - I'd certainly feel less guilty leaving him alone for 16 hours at a time, but how well does a pigeon that's been raised by itself adapt to a newcomer? He has been flying with a flock so it's not like he's never seen another pigeon before . . .but he's never had one on his territory . . .


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

I am Sorry I wasnt clear, I meant to ask how long has she/he been flying free as in how many months, weeks, years, decades, millenium?


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## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

Oh, I get it =) About 3-4 weeks at this point (but she's only really stayed gone for most of the day for about 2 weeks.) She's only 2 months old . . .


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Like you, I too, have a rescued pigeon that I have hand raised since he was about 1 week old. 

Unfortunately my bird was injured and can never be released or be let out to fly on his own as he has only one eye. However that is not the only reason that I would never consider releasing him. If he had both eyes and was perfect in every way he could never survive on his own. He does not know that he is a wild bird. He has become attached to me and me to him. He has no fear of his worst preditor - MAN. There are alot of piegon haters out there. A bird that has been hand raised and has bonded with humans can not determine which human is friend or foe. He does not have the same survival skills that a wild bird raised by bird parents would have. In addition, if you bird is only 2 months old, although he is not a baby anymore, he is just a young adolecent and is far from full grown. He could run into so many problems out on his own at this age.

My only words of advice to you is don't let anyone GUILT YOU INTO THINKING IT IS CRUEL TO KEEP HIM AS A HOUSE PIEGON. There are many who believe you are depriving him of his needs and freedom to be wild. DON'T EVER BELIEVE THAT!!!

Love him and enjoy his company. He will have a wonderful long and happy life with you. 

Thank you so much for saving this precious little creature.


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## bweaz (Aug 1, 2008)

I am going to say what everyone else says, don't worry about your pigeon being sad about not flying outdoors. I rescued a pigeon and tried to find a rehab for her, but couldn't. At that point, I knew that she saw me as her flock and she wouldn't make it outside. (Once they think that all food comes in a brightly colored bowl, they can't make it outside.) I work full time but I do get her out twice a day (morn and eve). Not ONCE has she been sad!!! I have read a lot of stuff about pigeons - I read about birds all the time, my family's eyes glaze over when I start to talk because that is all I ever talk about - and one thing I read is that pigeons don't get bored because they have long attention spans. We misinterpret thier body language. We think they look bored when really they are just observing everything. I put half of my pigeon's cage in front of the window when I leave, so she can see outside. My pigeon seems happy as a clam!!!

And, I will say, that there are some agencies that think no bird should EVER be caged, so you have to take everything (all advice) with a grain of salt.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Indoors versus outdoors*

Rachel,

I may get fussed at by some, but I am pretty much for letting a healthy bird fly free at least some of the time. Especially when there is a large enough flock nearby (very close by).

I can't keep pigeons in my apartment full time, so this also prejudices me towards the let-them-fly-free viewpoint. It is a bit of the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" syndrome.

How do other pigeons behave towards him/her? Males will roo-coo and strut and drag their tails even before juvenile females. I think females are accepted into the flock more readily than males.

We kept our male rescue *Pidgiepoo* (hand-raised from a few days old) indoors at night. He would go out during the day for a while, but we had to look for him quite often. We took him places with us, and I think that confused him some. He was afraid of the local male pigeons who claimed our street as their nesting territory, and he was a bit slow to mix in with them as a result. He was chased off by crows on January 14, 2005 when my wife went jogging in a local park and took him with her for "fresh air." He was eight and a half months old then.

Pidgiepoo did like to fly outside daily, though, and once i saw him fly off our window ledge and execute a wonderful zig-zag evasion maneuver just for the joy of it. He was very macho, paired with my hands, socks, and roo-cooed the feral females outside. For a while he considered my wife his mate, but she wouldn't make a nest or do the follow-up of laying an egg, although he fussed enough with her.

He learned a lot from watching the other pigeons on the street. I supervised him a lot.

Our next rescue, 23-day-old *Wieteke*, we let outdoors whenever he wanted. He cautiously took bigger and bigger steps, and blended in with the flock quite easily. We didn't take him places with us, os whenever he went somewhere, he knew the way home. He was a good flier, out-flew and out-maneuvered hawks and falcons quite often.

If she is a female, she will follow a male to a nest he selects.

When I let Wieteke raise several youngsters in several successive nests in our apartment with a feral female he persuaded to come in, I had to clean daly for at least an hour, and it seemed a bit unnatural to be spending so much time and effort trying to rectify or tolerate an unnatural situation. I also had to watch out for my health. It was a bit depressing at times, and my wife had trouble putting up with the mess also. Landlord eventually had me evict him from a nest with newly-laid eggs. You have to be aware that you can set up potential problem situations for yourself.

Every pigeon is an individual.

Every human is an individual. Some of the homeless people spend the night out whenever weather permits. Don't like a roof over their heads. Like to wake up early and disturb everyone with their loud and raucous behavior. (We have 600 men living a half block away in the Johanneshaus, run by the Knights of St. John, or the Knights Hospitaller. (The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta (known as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM), Order of Malta or Knights of Malta for short]; originally founded to take care of Pilgrims to the Holy Land). They are a good example of how individual we all are.

In my opinion, if the pigeon is free to make his choice, with your supervision (and accompanying hours of grief and suspense: you can't avoid it), you can accept his or her choice more readily.

I see myself more as a supporting element in the local pigeon life, rather than as an owner of an animal.

This is strictly an opinion, and I may change my mind at any time. And again, and again. (so those who disagree with me can see that there may be some light at the end of my tunnel).

I think it will be rough on her if you limit her to indoors flying after she has had a taste of the outdoors. I also think that it is good if a pigeon can choose whether to stay indoors for the day, or spend more time outdoors. Wieteke varied in his behavior. Most days he was outdoors; occasionally he would spend the day inside. It was never a big issue with me, once he became mature at three months of age. He ventured outdoors when he was about six weeks old.

Larry


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## irretractable (Jun 4, 2008)

Lwerden, Bweaz and Larry,
Thank you so much for the most recent thoughts and opinions. I certainly appreciate all the perspectives. It reminds me somewhat of the dillemma we face daily in my field of work (mental health). Do we keep people with severe mental illness safe and force treatment in institutions? Or do we allow people to have a certain degree of delusional thought, psychosis, intoxication, etc but to live free in society? We've learned that both extremes have negative effects, and each person has to be considered individually . . .as you mentioned Larry. Now I know I can't directly compare my pigeon to people, but I appreciate your thoughts about considering each person (and each pigeon) individually. And you're right, it is agonizing to worry about whether she's going to come home each night.

About the other pigeon behavior towards her (I actually think she's a "he" b/c she's quite territorial in my apartment, roo-coo's at me in the evening if I go near her perch on my bookshelve): Initially one pigeon would try to chase her away from my balcony (there was another nest on my balcony). But now I see her flying out with a flock (about 5 other birds, not too big) and not being chased. When I step out on my balcony, she'll sometimes swoop by as if to say "hi" and then rejoin the flock.

I have a lot to think about . . .

Rachel


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

good post Larry


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