# what will happen if cross breed jacobin with Capuchine



## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I thought will get something like mix with semi long neck feather, however the baby one look like mum, one look like dad, one is long hair, one is short hair


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

Japuchine????? (Hienz)


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

I would be interested if they get white flights or not.
The capuchine neck feathers and crest should be recessive but in my crosses they sometimes show up. A last crossling had the neck feathers on one side.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

dingweding said:


> I thought will get something like mix with semi long neck feather, however the baby one look like mum, one look like dad, one is long hair, one is short hair


It could be due to the long feathered gene. Causing one sib to have longer softer feathers than the other. I cannot remember whether it is a dominant or recessive, but I think it might have been dominant.

It is rather unusual that not both youngsters of an F1 cross are identical, this usually only happens in sex-linked matings and matings where one (or both) of the parent breeds are not homozygous for their traits.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Plus my capuchines have a lot of asymmetric offspring (crosslings) like halfsiders.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

halfside? u mean only have the neck feather on one side?? I never seen a pigeon like that


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes, that is what I mean.


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## dimerro (Nov 23, 2008)

capucine X non-capucine


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

The jacobin's and cappuchine's mane is very much a selected trait. Even though their crest is dominant, and all offspring would have a crest, only selection would allow the extreme seen in the pure bred birds. This would mean that some have better crests than others, and that some have halfsider crests etc.

The point is that cappuchines have less extreme crests because they are not long feathered. The long feather gene causes each feather to be longer and softer, which is why cappuchines are tight feathered and jacobins are loose feathered (longer softer feathers).

When crossing these breeds, if the jacobin is not homozygous for the long feathered gene and it's supportive modification genes, some youngsters will be short feathered, and look more like the cappuchine prent.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

so do u think they will always get chicks like this or totally random? sometimes like mum, sometimes like dad, sometime kinda mixup which end up with semi long neck feather??


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

When you cross breeds the results are almost never uniform. It all depends on how the genes come together in each baby. There was a lot of selective breeding to get the jacobin's hood the way it is supposed to look. So you can assume they will result in a median or looking more like the capuchine if nothing else.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Sorry, I didn't realize that jacobins are what we call "raadsheren". I was speaking of crossings to non crested/normal pigeons.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I thougt jacobins are just capucine with longer neck feather... possibly originally it was breed from capucine... that is why some bad quality jacobins only have semi long feather..


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

dingweding said:


> I thougt jacobins are just capucine with longer neck feather... possibly originally it was breed from capucine... that is why some bad quality jacobins only have semi long feather..


Jacobins probably were bred from cappuchines, or at least that is what I have been told. This is also why I was assuming that the crest gene that thse breeds have is the same.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> When you cross breeds the results are almost never uniform. It all depends on how the genes come together in each baby.


Most breeds are fairly homozygous in terms of the genes that influence the body type and feather structure, otherwise it would never be able to breed true. As such, the body type of crosses tend to be fairly uniform. Only when a breed is required to be heterozgous for a dominant mutation can a fair difference in phenotype in the F1 be expected.



MaryOfExeter said:


> There was a lot of selective breeding to get the jacobin's hood the way it is supposed to look. So you can assume they will result in a median or looking more like the capuchine if nothing else.


Selective breeding has a lot to do with the minute differences that judges look at, but a simple dominant mutation from short to long feathers would make a cappuchine look very different from the original breed. The statement that a median can be expected in the F1 is only true where the mutations that cause the different phenotypes in the breeds are recessive rather than dominant. The only real way of knowing would be to make the cross, and breed a statistically signicant number of birds.

Read up a little more at Darwin's Pigeons, especially look at the breeding examples where dominant traits cause rather unexpected results.


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