# Extreme thirst and diarrhea



## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Hi all!

I really need some advice on how to help Coco, a feral pigeon I rescued.

The whole backstory: I caught Coco about 3 months ago, because he had a really bad case of stringfoot. However, it turned out stringfoot was not his only problem, as he also suffered from extremely bad, watery diarrhea. I immediately treated him with a broad-spectrum antibiotic (enrofloxacin), because his feet were swollen and bleeding. 10 days later, I treated him for canker and cocci, and also gave him a dewormer.

*TLDR: Ever since I brought Coco in, he's had very bad watery diarrhea, and he's been drinking excessive amounts of water. *I've sent a crop swab and a droppings sample to a lab, and all they told me is that he has some cocci and some yeast, but that it isn't "too bad". I've tried everything, including water with ACV and probiotics (although the brand I used only contains 1 strain of bacteria), but his condition is not improving. I'm very worried he's damaging his kidneys by drinking so much, but I don't know if I should take the water away or not.

I'm not an experienced rehabber, but I would really like to help Coco. Please, could anyone offer some advice? What other conditions could cause his symptoms? I don't know what else to do .


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## Pigeonlady30 (Oct 25, 2020)

Hey I'm also from the UK (Scotland) im new to helping wild pigeons as well and I wish I could offer some advice but hopefully @Marina B may have some advice to help when their back online. Can I ask where did you get the stuff from to treat the canker is it easy to get a hold ov in the UK or of my vet I've looked it up but I don't trust any unless someone has used something with good results and you can't trust the comments on amazon or that lol. Hopefully your wee guy perks up soon and you get the advice you need off someone, I just lost a young rescue pigeon at the weekend due to bad canker he was beautiful black and white with and specks of black on his white face


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Polyuria (excessive watery urine) can be a symptom of kidney damage/disease, diabetes, an infection involving the kidneys, endotoxins from bacteria after treating with antibiotics, or flushing out medicines. A blood test should be able to tell. 

How long has the excessive watery droppings have been going on? You mentioned diarrhea as well. Perhaps there is still an infection. A picture would help here. If you can post a few pictures of fresh drippings on white paper towels, that would be very useful. I am interested in seeing the color of the urine fluids, the color of the urates, and the color and consistency of the fecal portion of the droppings.

I would definately keep up with a coccidistat like Diclazuril and perhaps an antifungal like Nystatin. Sometimes after antibiotics, an internal fungal overgrowth can occur.

Be sure to provide some electrolytes in the water like a 50/50 mix of water and pedialyte for a few days to prevent severe dehydration and shock. And also provide liquid vitamins for caged birds as well in the water.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Pigeonlady30 said:


> Hey I'm also from the UK (Scotland) im new to helping wild pigeons as well and I wish I could offer some advice but hopefully @Marina B may have some advice to help when their back online. Can I ask where did you get the stuff from to treat the canker is it easy to get a hold ov in the UK or of my vet I've looked it up but I don't trust any unless someone has used something with good results and you can't trust the comments on amazon or that lol. Hopefully your wee guy perks up soon and you get the advice you need off someone, I just lost a young rescue pigeon at the weekend due to bad canker he was beautiful black and white with and specks of black on his white face


Hey there! I used Harkers Spartrix for canker and Harkers Coxitabs for cocci. Sorry to hear about your youngster! Mine is quite strong all things considered, but I'm afraid things will take a turn for the worse unless I figure out what's wrong with him


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

jonrf said:


> Polyuria (excessive watery urine) can be a symptom of kidney damage/disease, diabetes, an infection involving the kidneys, endotoxins from bacteria after treating with antibiotics, or flushing out medicines. A blood test should be able to tell.
> 
> How long has the excessive watery droppings have been going on? You mentioned diarrhea as well. Perhaps there is still an infection. A picture would help here. If you can post a few pictures of fresh drippings on white paper towels, that would be very useful. I am interested in seeing the color of the urine fluids, the color of the urates, and the color and consistency of the fecal portion of the droppings.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information! The watery droppings have been going on since day 1 unfortunately. His droppings have a lot of urine, and he poops almost constantly. I've checked his droppings for yellow urates, but he's never had that problem. The photo I've attached is from this morning. I'll post some more later today, as his droppings tend to be more substantial after he eats (and the diarrhea is more obvious).

I haven't been able to find Nystatin (I don't believe they sell it over the counter in the UK). In terms of supplements, when I first took him in I gave him a multivitamin supplement in the water, and now I've switched him to Avipro Avian which contains probiotics and electrolytes, but I'm not sure if others have had good experiences with this supplement.

Does anyone happen to know a pigeon-friendly (and hopefully knowledgeable) vet in London?


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

globby said:


> Thanks for the information! The watery droppings have been going on since day 1 unfortunately. His droppings have a lot of urine, and he poops almost constantly. I've checked his droppings for yellow urates, but he's never had that problem. The photo I've attached is from this morning. I'll post some more later today, as his droppings tend to be more substantial after he eats (and the diarrhea is more obvious).
> 
> I haven't been able to find Nystatin (I don't believe they sell it over the counter in the UK). In terms of supplements, when I first took him in I gave him a multivitamin supplement in the water, and now I've switched him to Avipro Avian which contains probiotics and electrolytes, but I'm not sure if others have had good experiences with this supplement.
> 
> ...


I forgot to mention these photos were taken immediately after cleaning his cage - it becomes very wet and messy after a few hours.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

For how long did you treat for canker? Any chance of getting hold of metronidazole? Also called flagyl. You might find if you have a petshop closeby.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Marina B said:


> For how long did you treat for canker? Any chance of getting hold of metronidazole? Also called flagyl. You might find if you have a petshop closeby.


I treated from October 1st until October 15th (1 Spartrix per day) Not sure if I can find metronidazole, but I can try to look for it. The lab test included a canker test too, but they didn't say anything about that, so I assume it was negative.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, try to give a look at this link:









Listing of International Avian (Bird) and Exotic Pet Veterinarians


Sonia ait Alioua in Eucalyptus. [email protected] (recommended by a member who lives there.)




www.beautyofbirds.com





If you are on Facebook here is a pigeon protection group in UK, they could be maybe able to suggest you a good and serious pigeon - friendly vet:









Pigeon Rescue and Protection UK | Facebook


GROUP DESCRIPTION This is a UK GROUP that focuses on the rescue and welfare of wild or feral pigeons and doves in the UK AND IRELAND only. If you are outside the UK/IRELAND there is an...




www.facebook.com





Here you can find many helpful info and pics about poops, give it a look and try to compare the droppings of your bird with the situations mentioned there :









Dropping Interpretation


For fanciers, often the first indication that a problem is present in their birds is a change in their droppings. All birds, including pigeons, are able to mask health problems quite well. In the...



www.auspigeonco.com.au





About probiotics - I have good experience with this product: Oceproven Virbac or Vitaregul Francodex (they both have the same composition but the second one is more convenient because it is for bigger amounts of water)
It's a French product but you could try to look for something similar. it contains B-glucans and mannan oligosaccharides, it was suggested by my vet.









8.95? - Oceproven VIRBAC - Véto Products


OCEPROVEN VIRBAC is a food supplement to maintain the balance of the intestinal flora of the cage bird. Products-veto.com




www.produits-veto.com





I would not treat him again for canker without new vet test or without seeing canker in his beak or at least without suspecting it. The vet test didn't show canker and you gave him spartrix. Stress (originated by medications and by the whole situation) could increase the risk of multiplication of the canker organism but now you don't know if that happened (it happened to my pigeon Londo when I was treating her for her cloacal prolapse). Treating him again for canker without a real reason would be more harmful than useful. That's my own opinion, of course.
Canker is not always visible in the mouth/throat but have you tried to check inside his beak with a flashlight? Have you noticed something? Any bad smell?


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Colombina said:


> Hi, try to give a look at this link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not on facebook unfortunately, but I'll try reaching out to other bird friendly organizations in the area.



> Here you can find many helpful info and pics about poops, give it a look and try to compare the droppings of your bird with the situations mentioned there :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information! The droppings interpretation page you linked looks like a great resource, I'll give that a read.



> I would not treat him again for canker without new vet test or without seeing canker in his beak or at least without suspecting it. The vet test didn't show canker and you gave him spartrix. Stress (originated by medications and by the whole situation) could increase the risk of multiplication of the canker organism but now you don't know if that happened (it happened to my pigeon Londo when I was treating her for her cloacal prolapse). Treating him again for canker without a real reason would be more harmful than useful. That's my own opinion, of course.
> Canker is not always visible in the mouth/throat but have you tried to check inside his beak with a flashlight? Have you noticed something? Any bad smell?


Sorry, I should've been clearer - I'm not planning to treat him for canker again (I was just saying I'll look for metronidazole in case I need it for other birds later). Back when I _did _treat him, it was before running the tests (I didn't know there were tests available for pigeons, but I've since found out). I did it because I've been reading this forum and people seem to suggest canker is present in most ferals and that it's usually a safe bet to treat them for it. Your point is perfectly valid though, and I agree that it doesn't make sense to medicate randomly. 

His throat is clear and doesn't have any other symptoms than diarrhea/thirst (and perhaps occasional sneezing, but I think that might be due to dust).


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## Pigeonlady30 (Oct 25, 2020)

globby said:


> Hey there! I used Harkers Spartrix for canker and Harkers Coxitabs for cocci. Sorry to hear about your youngster! Mine is quite strong all things considered, but I'm afraid things will take a turn for the worse unless I figure out what's wrong with him


Thank you n Where about did you get them was it online or a vets, awww I'm sure he will be absolutely fine with your care hopefully it's just bad bacteria or that thats exiting his body as it needs to come out somewhere lol but hopefully he makes a speedy recovery. Yeah I was hoping the little guy was gonna make it but when I got a hold ov him the canker was really bad he was so thin only way I knew he was young was he didn't have any colour in his eyes they where all black but he was fully feathered his willet I'm sure it's called was a brownie color with little hairs on it and just starting to turn white he was an absolute smasher I will attach a photo of him


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Pigeonlady30 said:


> Thank you n Where about did you get them was it online or a vets, awww I'm sure he will be absolutely fine with your care hopefully it's just bad bacteria or that thats exiting his body as it needs to come out somewhere lol but hopefully he makes a speedy recovery. Yeah I was hoping the little guy was gonna make it but when I got a hold ov him the canker was really bad he was so thin only way I knew he was young was he didn't have any colour in his eyes they where all black but he was fully feathered his willet I'm sure it's called was a brownie color with little hairs on it and just starting to turn white he was an absolute smasher I will attach a photo of him


Thank you for the kind words. I'm so sorry about your little one - I know that despite our best efforts, it is too late for some of them.. At least you gave him another chance.

In case anybody wants to know, I used an online service for the tests testing.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

After looking at the photo with the droppings, it just looks like an issue of polyuria and not diarrhoea. The urine looks absolutely clear and the fecal portion looks intact. 

I would definately try a little electrolytes and water soluable bird vitamins in the water. Aside from Vitamin A and D3, B vitamins will aid in recovery. I would let his kidneys heal and allow for electrolyte rebalance and skip medications as long as there are no obvious signs of illness, lethargy, etc. Just try not to add too much salts into the water. A 50/50 mix of water to infant electrolyte water (like Pedialyte) for a few days should suffice.

If the problem persists for another week after electrolytes I would say reach out to a pigeon-friendly wildlife centre (not National Trust charities) or a pigeon-friendly vet or pigeon racing club or organisation. If you tell a vet he is a pet, they are less likely to euthanise. The little one may need blood labs and a proper diagnosis. I hope that the pigeon recovers and is well on the mend. Cheers for rescuing him!


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

jonrf said:


> After looking at the photo with the droppings, it just looks like an issue of polyuria and not diarrhoea. The urine looks absolutely clear and the fecal portion looks intact.
> 
> I would definately try a little electrolytes and water soluable bird vitamins in the water. Aside from Vitamin A and D3, B vitamins will aid in recovery. I would let his kidneys heal and allow for electrolyte rebalance and skip medications as long as there are no obvious signs of illness, lethargy, etc. Just try not to add too much salts into the water. A 50/50 mix of water to infant electrolyte water (like Pedialyte) for a few days should suffice.
> 
> If the problem persists for another week after electrolytes I would say reach out to a pigeon-friendly wildlife centre (not National Trust charities) or a pigeon-friendly vet or pigeon racing club or organisation. If you tell a vet he is a pet, they are less likely to euthanise. The little one may need blood labs and a proper diagnosis. I hope that the pigeon recovers and is well on the mend. Cheers for rescuing him!


Thank you for the reply. I thought it was diarrhea because it looked a bit mushy, but I think you're right, the droppings probably look like that because of the amounts of urine he's producing. I've attached a better photo of the droppings.

In terms of vitamins, I have been giving him "Nekton T" (for pigeons) with the following composition:

COMPOSITION:

6,600,000 IU of vitamin A,
10,000 IU vitamin D3,
13,265 mg of vitamin E,
665 mg of vitamin B1 (thiamine hydrochloride),
1680 mg of vitamin B2 (riboflavin),
3330 mg pantothenic acid (calcium pantothenate-D),
10 000 mg nicotinamide,
665 mg of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride),
224 mg of folic acid,
2000 mg of vitamin B12,
16,660 mg of vitamin C (L (+) - ascorbic acid),
1330 mg of vitamin K3 (menadione sodium bisulfite),
50.000 g Biotin,
3.000 mg Iron (ferrous sulfate -II-),
1.220 mg of zinc (zinc sulfate),
1250 mg of manganese (manganese oxide),
250 mg of copper (copper-II-sulphate)
100 mg Iodine (calcium iodate).
L-lysine 0.2%,
0.2% DL-methionine
Dextrose
Silicic acid,
Calcium carbonate

I've recently switched him from the vitamins to a probiotic supplement (with vitamin A and electrolytes), but I'm not sure whether the salt/sugar/water ratio in this one is right for him. I will be trying the solution you've mentioned.

I will find him a vet, but there is no way I'll let anyone euthanize him.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

globby said:


> I'm not on facebook unfortunately, but I'll try reaching out to other bird friendly organizations in the area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. No need to apologize, it was me who assumed that you were considering the possibility of another canker treatment 🙄.

I only want to add that one of our pigeons (my brother's pigeon) had too watery poops (he is a PMV pigeon).
In addition to the French probiotics mentioned in my previous post, we gave him even a natural product called Oxycox. It contains garlic and others plants like thyme, tanacetum vulgaris, echinacea purpurea, triganella faenum graecum other than manganese and zinc. It protects the digestive system, helps to regulate the transit and provides a protection from parasitic infestation of coccidies.
After a few months of treatment with both products he stopped with watery poops.









Animalis - Aliment Oxycox contre les Coccidies pour Basse Cour - 100ml


Aliment complémentaire procurant une protection contre les infestation parasitaires des coccidies




www.animalis.com





If yoy could find something similar, you could give it a try.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

It will be very tricky to calculate the proper electrolyte and glucose ratio. Generally, a vet will have to know what the ideal weight (and BMI) of the bird should be at health and then determine fluid loss compared to fluid intake in order to ascertain the level of dehydration. Usually, when an animal has excess electrolytes (or toxins) they self regulate by increasing fresh water consumption. If the bird is having excess water loss due to polyuria or diarrhea, the bird may be at risk of dehyration or electrolyte depletion. The cause of polyuria should be diagnosed and have a blood plasma analysis performed to understand if there is an excess of electrolytes or not, or other signs of various disorders such as organ impairment or infection markers.

I would use a low to medium ratio to start out with for a few days, and then provide fresh pure water for a few days so the pigeon can self regulate granted it has normal kidney function.

I did note there are white urates included in the droppings in the last picture. This is a good indicator of healthy/normal kidney function, but without a proper blood test this is only speculative. Also, if the bird is too hot, is under some kind of stress, or is very physically active, this can cause polyuria to rid excess body heat. This is normal. But, if the bird is having an elevated body temperature due to unknown causes, it can be a cause for concern and may be a sign of an infection, a metabolic disorder, or disease.

I hope the little guy is well on the mend, and gets better soon


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

I would be careful using thyme oil. There have been a few reports of toxicosis in pigeons using too much. Also, essential oils may put added stress on the liver and kidneys in a recovering state. It is best used as a preventative with caution.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Colombina said:


> Thanks for clarifying. No need to apologize, it was me who assumed that you were considering the possibility of another canker treatment 🙄.
> 
> I only want to add that one of our pigeons (my brother's pigeon) had too watery poops (he is a PMV pigeon).
> In addition to the French probiotics mentioned in my previous post, we gave him even a natural product called Oxycox. It contains garlic and others plants like thyme, tanacetum vulgaris, echinacea purpurea, triganella faenum graecum other than manganese and zinc. It protects the digestive system, helps to regulate the transit and provides a protection from parasitic infestation of coccidies.
> ...


Sorry for the late reply! PMV certainly sounds like a possibility as well, I've heard it can cause polyuria.

Thank you for the suggestion - for now, I'll try vitamins/electrolytes and supportive care in general, until I get a proper diagnosis.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

jonrf said:


> It will be very tricky to calculate the proper electrolyte and glucose ratio. Generally, a vet will have to know what the ideal weight (and BMI) of the bird should be at health and then determine fluid loss compared to fluid intake in order to ascertain the level of dehydration. Usually, when an animal has excess electrolytes (or toxins) they self regulate by increasing fresh water consumption. If the bird is having excess water loss due to polyuria or diarrhea, the bird may be at risk of dehyration or electrolyte depletion. The cause of polyuria should be diagnosed and have a blood plasma analysis performed to understand if there is an excess of electrolytes or not, or other signs of various disorders such as organ impairment or infection markers.
> 
> I would use a low to medium ratio to start out with for a few days, and then provide fresh pure water for a few days so the pigeon can self regulate granted it has normal kidney function.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice regarding the electrolyte solution - I've always had trouble finding a definitive answer regarding the sugar/salt/water ratio, and now I know why 

And yes, there are white urates in there, although sometimes it's hard to tell because the droppings are always very watery. In terms of why he has polyuria, this is something I'll have to figure out: he's definitely not active (and does not seem visibly stressed), but I don't think I can rule out infection.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

Thank you all for the replies! I really do appreciate your advice on this matter, and I'm certain Coco is going to get well . I've had a very hectic week so I'll use the weekend to find a vet and get him the help he needs as soon as possible.

Coco and I both thank you 🕊 I've learned a lot from all of your replies (and from my past lurking on the forum).


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

globby said:


> Thank you all for the replies! I really do appreciate your advice on this matter, and I'm certain Coco is going to get well . I've had a very hectic week so I'll use the weekend to find a vet and get him the help he needs as soon as possible.
> 
> Coco and I both thank you 🕊 I've learned a lot from all of your replies (and from my past lurking on the forum).



You are most welcome! I hope Coco recovers soon and is on the mend


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I really hope that you can find a good vet for Coco! I also hope he will recover soon 😊. 

Please keep us updated!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

jonrf said:


> I would be careful using thyme oil. There have been a few reports of toxicosis in pigeons using too much. Also, essential oils may put added stress on the liver and kidneys in a recovering state. It is best used as a preventative with caution.


Hi Jon, thanks for the info about thyme oil.
I have never heard about that so I would be really grateful if you could give me more details and even your opinion about the supplement.

I know that here in France thyme (in different form: essential oil, infusion/tea, twigs) is often used by pigeons breeders, they say that it works like a natural antiseptic. I read that it is good for respiratory tract, that it provides a protection from parasitic infestation of coccidies and so on.

I know that there are different supplements containing it (even as essential oil).
Just for example, even Laboratoires Moureau (they are specialized in pigeons medications and supplements) use thyme oil (and other oils).






ALACORYL - Laboratoires Moureau


ALACORYL Régulateur respiratoire Composition: Propylène glycol – Chlorure de sodium. Constituants analytiques : Protéines brutes : 0 % – Matières grasses brutes : 13,6 % – Cellulose brute : 0 % – Cendres brutes : 1,1 % – Humidité : 38,6 % – Sodium : 0,05 %. Additifs au kg : Huiles essentielles ...




www.laboratoires-moureau.com





About oxycox - my vet only told me to not give it to my pigeon Londo when I was treating her for her cloacal prolapse.
We had excellent results with my brother's PMV pigeon (we gave him both oxycox and the French probiotics) and I have never seen side effects on my birds.

The supplement contains 12 500 mg of thyme for each liter (see the pic):

It is a monthly treatment, the dosage suggested is:

3 ml of oxycox to 5 liters of water for 7 consecutive days.

Do you think is it too much thyme oil ? It could be a dangerous supplement? I don't want to use and to suggest unsafe products... If it is not good I would never buy it again..

Yes, I know that some essential oils could be very toxic to birds and to pets (like tea tree oil).

As we are talking about oils I have another question. I know that here people use essential oils against external parasites. For example someone use to add lavender essential oil in bath water (I don't remember how many drops, I should check), of course they say to be very careful to head/face.
I also heard about a mixture of eucalyptus globulus oil and common table oil: it is used to treat depluming mites.
Do you think that these are safe methods? Could they damage the feathers? Could they be harmful?

Sorry for the several questions but I see that you have a great knowledge of pigeons!
Thanks in advance for your help 😊!


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Hi,

You're welcome. I would be glad to offer my concern.

All commercial formulations and products containing essential oils or raw herbs like oxycox are at safe levels and are designed specifically for safe use with birds.

Toxicity occurs most often when pure essential oils are administered or used directly. Thymol, eugenol, carvacrol, menthol, and other monoterpenes can induce negative side effects including liver shock (hepatoxicity) at only a few drops of pure 100% oil given orally to small birds, especially in the presence with other toxins. Some essential oils are manufactured or sold in ethanol, and this is definately toxic for birds. Some commercial oils are extracted using hexane or heptane, and will always contain a trace amount of highly toxic solvents even after purification.

Animal studies involving mice and dogs show larger doses of pure thymol can be safe and ranged in the low gram range per kg body weight. But according to Reynolds (1993), thymol is an irritant to the gastric mucosa (the lining of the GI tract). Low doses (e.g. 1% thymol) are antitoxic and hepaprotective, but high doses can be acutely toxic (cytotoxic, genotoxic, hepatoxic) and toxicity is highly dependent on dose, frequency, and concentration.

Birds are generally more sensitive as their livers have limited detoxifying abilities compared to mammals. My biggest concern would be using pure concentrated commericial essential oils and not knowing if they contain any solvents (or even trace solvents), and also not having the means to adequately dilute or dose in safe minute ranges.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Yes, I agree completely, tea tree oil is *very* toxic for birds. Lavendar would be safe when diluted and/or mixed with a safe carrier oil. Protecting the head during application generally protects damage to vision as oils will irritate and cloud the sclera and cornea. And also prevents accidental exposure to the ears or the sensitive skin around the face area and nares. The only issue would be the to plumage sheen and appearance, the loss of the ability to stay insulated and warm, and the loss of the water protecting wax on the feathers. But there should not be any permanent or long term damage to the feathers themselves. It is just the oil residue that may take time to wash away.

This being said, essential oils, when used in a safe and correct manner, are generally much safer than synthetic pharmaceutical compounds, and are easier on the liver and kidneys compared to medicinal drugs.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks so much for your detailed reply, Jon. 
Much appreciated.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

You"re welcome!


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

A bit late to all the discussion. I had pigeons with PMV in the past and some of them never developed neurological symptoms. From my experience some can have increased thirst and polyuria and no neurological symptoms, while others can have more or less better poops, but severe head twisting.

Also, after a PMV infection pigeons can have polyuria for months because kidney damage needs time to repair. Some can have it for life. Looking at the photo, that look a lot like PMV poop. Can't say 100% it is, but looks like it.
I noticed that some things helps these birds recovery faster, and these things can also not cause harm in case it is not PMV:

electrolytes - I use the solution for humans (unflavored) and put 2 ml of that solution in water bowl 3 days in a row. Electrolytes can be overdosed and then bird can get loose stools, but this way 2ml for 300ml of normal water can help prevent overdose when you have a bird that is drinking too much. This was the safest dilution and most effective from my personal experience.
D3, A and E vitamins help a lot. I noticed birds recovering with PMV sunbathe a lot and this helps them. These vitamins help repair tissue damage including nerve damage.
We have here a powder that is used to bind toxins from digestive tract, it is a type of clay, but can't remember the name for my life right now. It can be given to any animal without any limitations, looks like yellowish white powder, agricultural stores have it. I sprinkle this on food in the morning and give probiotics in the evening for bids that had a long course of antibiotics.

Also provide with some pigeon mix with dried peas, corn, buckwheat etc. 

I hope this helps.


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## globby (Nov 17, 2020)

SilverFeral said:


> A bit late to all the discussion. I had pigeons with PMV in the past and some of them never developed neurological symptoms. From my experience some can have increased thirst and polyuria and no neurological symptoms, while others can have more or less better poops, but severe head twisting.
> 
> Also, after a PMV infection pigeons can have polyuria for months because kidney damage needs time to repair. Some can have it for life. Looking at the photo, that look a lot like PMV poop. Can't say 100% it is, but looks like it.
> I noticed that some things helps these birds recovery faster, and these things can also not cause harm in case it is not PMV:
> ...


Hi @SilverFeral ! Thanks for the information! I am really starting to think it's likely to be PMV (Coco belonged to a flock that had a pigeon with all the classic PMV symptoms. That pigeon wasn't able to feed, and I tried my best to catch him too, but he flew away..). I really hope he recovers from this - I'll continue to offer electrolytes and vitamins.

I've contacted all the vets in London that have experience with birds, as well as several who don't. Some of them told me they wouldn't know how to diagnose or treat a bird (I didn't even mention the fact that Coco is a pigeon!), and that I'm better off not bringing him in (at least they were being honest). The avian vets I called also refused to take him in - apparently, most don't accept new patients as a precaution (COVID and such). One vet initially wanted to schedule an appointment, but he ended up calling a week later saying he couldn't do it: he said there's an avian flu outbreak here in the UK, and that I should wait until things settle down before calling again..

In the meantime, I've tested his droppings and they came back negative for yeast, coccida, canker and worms. The person who I discussed his results with also suggested it's likely PMV.

I'll call again this week to see if any of them changed their policy.


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