# URGENT Situation - Mansfield Ohio



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

This is a copy of a post that came to the PML yesterday. If anyone can give any of these birds a home, please contact the owner directly. I know nothing more than what is contained in the following.

Terry

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_Got a call from Paul Kaufman, he lives in Mansfield, Ohio & he has
racing homers that he needs to get rid of, fast. His neighbor keeps
reporting him and he has until Wed to get rid of his 300 birds. He has 3
lofts, been racing for 12 years and has had pigeons for over 50 years. I
know that you can't take in 300 birds, (or probably 3 for that matter) but
do you have any thoughts on how to get rid of that many so fast? He said
he could take them to auction but most would end up dead, used for hunters
or eaten. He said he has quite a few really good birds. Just
wondering. I felt so bad for the guy, having to give them up so fast.
His # is 419-522-5385 if you want to talk to him directly_


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> This is a copy of a post that came to the PML yesterday. If anyone can give any of these birds a home, please contact the owner directly. I know nothing more than what is contained in the following.
> 
> Terry
> 
> ...


Is he selling them or just giving them away?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Call him, Zimm. If he needs to place them in a hurry, they probably are free.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I don't know, Zimm, but definitely call the man. You may get some really good racing pigeons for little or no money!

Terry


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

------------------------------------------
_Got a call from Paul Kaufman, he lives in Mansfield, Ohio & he has
racing homers that he needs to get rid of, fast. His neighbor keeps
reporting him and he has until Wed to get rid of his 300 birds. He has 3
lofts, been racing for 12 years and has had pigeons for over 50 years. I
know that you can't take in 300 birds, (or probably 3 for that matter) but
do you have any thoughts on how to get rid of that many so fast? He said
he could take them to auction but most would end up dead, used for hunters
or eaten. He said he has quite a few really good birds. Just
wondering. I felt so bad for the guy, having to give them up so fast.
His # is 419-522-5385 if you want to talk to him directly_[/QUOTE]

I feel so sorry for this man. 50 yrs. owning pigeon's and he has to get rid of them. With 300 bird's I would have thought whoever it is would have given him more time to find home's. 
Wish I could help.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I am calling later tonight or tomorrow i already tried twice but there was no answer. I can only adopt a few pair and only if they are free or cheap but i am trying to get some good racers for hopefully cheap.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Terry do you have a e-mail address i have tried calling him 2 times i will try again tomorrow but just in case i still can't get a hold of him could you PM me his e-mail if you have it.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

God this sort of thing leaves me feeling gutted. Must have been some zoning ordinance or something changing, does anyone know? And how could have have not gotten grandfathered in? This sort of thing just makes me physically ill


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> God this sort of thing leaves me feeling gutted. Must have been some zoning ordinance or something changing, does anyone know? And how could have have not gotten grandfathered in? This sort of thing just makes me physically ill


I know what you mean i will probably get a few of the birds but obviously not all 300 i think i can only take 2-5 pairs not sure what i will be aloud to get hopefully five


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Folks,

All I know is what I posted is the copy from the PML. I do know that is a good phone # at least according to the AU yearbook. Beyond that, I can't tell you. 

You'll just have to keep calling.

Many thanks to all of you who are trying to help.

Terry


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> Folks,
> 
> All I know is what I posted is the copy from the PML. I do know that is a good phone # at least according to the AU yearbook. Beyond that, I can't tell you.
> 
> ...


Ok i will call tomorrow and if i get a hold of him i will let you know if they are free and for those who would take them if he would ship. Anything else i should ask him?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

That is not fair, he should be grandfathered in to whatever change in the law. They did that here, but the one person with a loft is allowed to keep the loft, at least for now.


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

local athaurities are not ususally that hard nosed. but we dont know the whole story i have seen some pretty bad situatuions. this guy has 4 times as many birds as ido and mine are pretty loud at times.


i would be willing to take some of his birds and even pay for some shipping if someone can help me out when they get in touch with him.

Eric..


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I don't think he will be able to ship them but if you would like to ask him you can call now he is home (it is 6:06 Eastern time). The reason I don't think he can ship them is he has to get rid of them by Wednesday and that is when he is taking them to the auction because it is to cold and the post office won't ship unless it is 38 (i think) plus he wouldn't have time to get shipping crates. But call him and see what he says. I am picking my 3 pair up on Wednesday night he is holding 3 pair for me.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm really glad you'll be able to get the three pair from this man. Please let him know that many people on this forum are very sad for him. Of course, we don't know the circumstances or the situation he has with 300 pigeons but to have to take them to an auction where he has no idea what will happen to them must be breaking his heart. I just feel so bad for him. At least the six you get will be cared for.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

eric98223 said:


> local athaurities are not ususally that hard nosed. but we dont know the whole story i have seen some pretty bad situatuions. this guy has 4 times as many birds as ido and mine are pretty loud at times.
> Eric..


 Hi Eric,
This sound's like a dumb question but here goes, when you say your pigeon's get noisy, what noise do they make?  I only have one pair of pij's at this time, but would like to take in any unwanted pigeon's, so just want to be prepared.
Thanks.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Do you know what I would do just out of spite. I would let my homers out about 10 miles away that way i could say that i tried to get rid of them then i would just build an outside type loft that is open and has nest boxes. Of course if the city asked i just like _*wild*_ birds and would build them complex "bird houses" then i would feed the "wild birds" every day and just lock up the hens at night in there nest boxes to protect them from predators and then if i wanted i could still race and i would just have to catch the "wild" birds and train them and then catch the when i wanted to race. Even if this didn't work out i would still just let them stay at my house and i would feed them just to get back at my neighbors and it would even be worse for them because depending on how close he lives to his neigbor they would probably perch on his house and poop on it . But that is just me lol thats what i would do.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

How very sad for most of these birds .. Zimm .. I'm very glad you are getting some from this man. My heart breaks for him and for the birds ..

Terry


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

EgypSwiftLady said:


> Hi Eric,
> This sound's like a dumb question but here goes, when you say your pigeon's get noisy, what noise do they make?  I only have one pair of pij's at this time, but would like to take in any unwanted pigeon's, so just want to be prepared.
> Thanks.


lol ok 2 birds together is kind of quiet 3-4 pair is cute 75 birds all trying to get each others attention can be loud lol can hear them in my house in the mornings and my room is opposite the loft not a biggie to my neighbors as they love it but then triple that... i can only imagine!!


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## myrpalom (Aug 12, 2004)

TAWhatley said:


> He said
> he could take them to auction but most would end up dead, used for hunters
> or eaten. [/COLOR][/I]


In that case, if I had to decide, I would go to my vet and ask to eurhanise them, at least they will not suffer. Sounds hard, but "used for hunters" sounds worse to me.
Myriam


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

EgypSwiftLady said:


> Hi Eric,
> This sound's like a dumb question but here goes, when you say your pigeon's get noisy, what noise do they make?  I only have one pair of pij's at this time, but would like to take in any unwanted pigeon's, so just want to be prepared.
> Thanks.


Well, I'm not Eric, but he's right about the noise. 300 birds could be a big problem if they are close to the neighbors. Just imagine 100 cock birds all groaning and cooing and calling their hens. I also can hear my birds from the house. Sometimes even with the house closed up and I'm only talking about 40 birds or so. I hate what has happened to this guy too and although we don't know all the circumstances, I would expect that this is a problem that's been going on for quite a while and he just ignored it. I just can't believe that authorities would expect someone to just get rid of that many birds in just a few days.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

eric98223 said:


> lol ok 2 birds together is kind of quiet 3-4 pair is cute 75 birds all trying to get each others attention can be loud lol can hear them in my house in the mornings and my room is opposite the loft not a biggie to my neighbors as they love it but then triple that... i can only imagine!!


 Thanks Eric for your reply. I have a very loud rooster and was just wondering
who would be the loudest.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, I'm not Eric, but he's right about the noise. 300 birds could be a big problem if they are close to the neighbors. Just imagine 100 cock birds all groaning and cooing and calling their hens. I also can hear my birds from the house. Sometimes even with the house closed up and I'm only talking about 40 birds or so. I hate what has happened to this guy too and although we don't know all the circumstances, I would expect that this is a problem that's been going on for quite a while and he just ignored it. I just can't believe that authorities would expect someone to just get rid of that many birds in just a few days.


Hi Renee, 
I understand now, sitting here listening to my pair of dove's cooing. Like you said imagine even just 20 more dove cock's cooing, that could drive some people to complain.

I too would have thought that this man would have been given more time to get rid of soooo many birds. But like someone already stated maybe we don't know the whole story.
Thanks for your reply.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I don't think pigeons make nearly as much noise as doves.
Last night, I don't know what was wrong with them but three of my male doves started competing who is yodling the loudest. I was expecting my neighbor to knock on the door any minute.

Reti


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Reti said:


> I don't think pigeons make nearly as much noise as doves.
> Last night, I don't know what was wrong with them but three of my male doves started competing who is yodling the loudest. I was expecting my neighbor to knock on the door any minute.
> 
> Reti


 I enjoy listening to my ONE pair, but can understand how much noise your three guy's can make. 
I'm lucky, we don't have any close neighbors to worry about.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I contacted the guy. I am getting 3 pair and the way his wife made it sound i am getting some pretty good birds . He also found someone in indiana to take 150 of his birds  so he got rid of about half at lease. I will post picture of my 3 pair I get them tonight


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I contacted the guy. I am getting 3 pair and the way his wife made it sound i am getting some pretty good birds . He also found someone in indiana to take 150 of his birds  so he got rid of about half at lease. I will post picture of my 3 pair I get them tonight


This is great news, Zimm! I'm glad you are getting your birds and that so many found a home in Indiana. I sure hope the rest were/are equally fortunate.

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

That's great news, that Zimm can take some and that he found homes for 150 more. Poor guy. 



Reti said:


> I don't think pigeons make nearly as much noise as doves.
> Last night, I don't know what was wrong with them but three of my male doves started competing who is yodling the loudest. I was expecting my neighbor to knock on the door any minute.
> 
> Reti


I know how you feel, Reti, I was always most worried about the doves bothering my neighbors when I lived in an apartment. I think I stressed about that more than anything, those darn doves are so LOUD and their coos are so deep they go right through walls!  No one ever did complain though, I hope no one bothers you either about it. They should sit back and enjoy the sound. I much prefer it to the noise other neighbors can make: loud bass from music, loud TVs, fighting, crying babies, etc.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I got my 3 pair there are two red (those are the ones that look brown right  ) checks, one white one, 2 blue checks, and 1 blue bar. I will post pictures later. How old to pigeons live? One of the bands was from 98 and one was from 99. The other ones didn't have numbered bands just colored one. What are the colored ones for? Are they just for identification or are they for a digital clock for racing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I got my 3 pair there are two red (those are the ones that look brown right  ) checks, one white one, 2 blue checks, and 1 blue bar. I will post pictures later. How old to pigeons live? One of the bands was from 98 and one was from 99. The other ones didn't have numbered bands just colored one. What are the colored ones for? Are they just for identification or are they for a digital clock for racing.


They can live 20 years or better.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I got my 3 pair there are two red (those are the ones that look brown right  ) checks, one white one, 2 blue checks, and 1 blue bar. I will post pictures later. How old to pigeons live? One of the bands was from 98 and one was from 99. The other ones didn't have numbered bands just colored one. *What are the colored ones for? Are they just for identification *or are they for a digital clock for racing.


Yes, they were probably so HE could identify them.


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

Another case of things getting out of control and who suffers in the end?...the poor birds!
People have to realize that unless one has a few acres of land as a farm/ranch a good distance away from other homes, the birds or any other animals for that matter have to be kept in moderation. 
There are MANY whom do not share our love for animals...they have the right to live peacefully without noise or major poops on their properties....300 birds in a residential area  ...this must have been going on for a long time and the man just ignored the warnings until the @!$! hit the fan, hence the 'gotta go by wednesday' order.
I'm sorry for the birds and the neighbors...both to which he showed no respect. 
Bless you Zim for giving those birds a safe home.
I thank God that the 150 have found hopefully safe homes.
I pray for the other birds that they should not suffer....
And, lastly, for ignorant/disrespectful people such as that 'gentleman'...lucky for him I observe Lent otherwise I may have sent something else his way!
I'm sorry, but this makes me  and  

If anyone hears about the other birds, please post....I'll be thinking about those poor little innocent creatures.

I'm going to visit our baby birdie threads to cheer me up!


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2008)

you have to understand ,its not like he wanted to get rid of them ,its something out of his control due to the ways in which the world is changing around us ,where we lose our freedoms to have such things in the first place ..so please dont place the blame on him it could happen to any of us at any given time


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> you have to understand ,its not like he wanted to get rid of them ,its something out of his control due to the ways in which the world is changing around us ,where we lose our freedoms to have such things in the first place ..so please dont place the blame on him it could happen to any of us at any given time


Yes, Birdie family member, I do understand that he does not want to get rid of them, however, I don't think that accumulating 300 birds in a residential area 'just happens' as well as there must have been 'ignored' complaints for a long time before the neighbors just figured, the heck with this....this guy don't give a blank about 'our freedoms'. Most people prefer not to spend their time going to fill papers/place phone calls etc...
Limitation laws were obviously ignored as well...so there you have it....the rest of the birds for whom he can't find homes obtain basically a death sentence.

So, I graciously disagree that this can happen to 'any of us at anytime'....just those whom ignore limitation laws and do not respect their neighbors right to peaceable living. Others will never have to worry about being told to get rid of their animals if they responsibly remain within their rights to keep such. Like my town only allows me to have 10 rabbits otherwise have to obtain permits/different property taxes for breeding even though their all spayed/neutered. So, I have 10 and cannot accept any other rescues until I have a vacancy. There was a lady who when I told her I could not take her 2 rabbits for that reason, replied, "Oh come on, what are they gonna do, come and look in your barn?" Hey, it could happen, thankfully I'll never have to worry about it! AMEN!

Also, when I stated above, "And, lastly for the man...etc." I referred to my also praying for him even though I didn't feel like doing such, because regardless of his errors, he must feel awful.

Getting back to my initial reason for checking back...Has anyone heard about the other poor little birds or if the 150 got to where they were supposed to go safely?
Guess I'll just continue to pray....this really stressed me out last night and thought about all those little kids throughout the day.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Bless you for your care and concern Christin. This is such a sad situation.

It may also be a matter of the birds being in a very rural area that eventually develops and becomes more like or does become a city, so ordinances change. 

I often wonder about our area, which is growing by leaps and bounds, so far we are lucky as we still have few neighbors on our street but that may change quickly. Even though we followed the guidelines of the law and so far nothing has changed there, getting any new neighbors is always a concern for me because of my pigeons and the way some people view them as 3rd class birds.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

The other 150 went to a poultry auction


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

Thanks for the update, Zim.
Really very, very sad to tears. 

I know what you mean, Treesa, about the pigeons being thought of as 2nd class...'dirty' so forth and so on. How quickly people forget how they have served us way back from the days of Noah all the way to War War II and continue to do so!

We just have to keep fighting for them as well as for the rest of God's Beloved Creatures. At least we can be comforted that one day all of His Beloved Creatures will be safe and happy. Until then, we just do whatever we can to protect them.

Blessings of to all!


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

*on a bunch of subjects catching up*

ok we dont know all the circumstances but we all know a couple things that must be true

the rules in an area do change with time. sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse, if i followed the laws in city limits i can only have 3 domesticated animals so you have all seen my inside birds so i can keep those but then the cat and all 75 actually 80 something birds have to go hmmmmm now the newer statute says that i can have 1 pigon for every 1.5 cubic feet in my loft i dont even want to start tht math...lol

but even as rules change we all know that this guy did not wake up one day to the police telling him he had 3 days he fought it or ignored it or whatever until it was too late. so for that part i have no sympathy. thats the part that upsets me.



and as to noise its not my pigeons that make the racket riley rings like the phone in ear splitting decibals inside the house that can be heard with the house well sealed for blocks!! lol good thing th turtles are not noisy i would never get any sleep!!


oh yeah one more thing the coulered bands with no numbers are usually used by breeders to have an easy way of mating pairs. they put them together for a bit then take them apart, then back together again its a lot easier to just put the two green or yellow bands together then to try to read au bands and figure out who goeswhere

hope that helps

Eric.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

300 birds is not an over average of birds to keep. Many people who raise and breed birds,will have 100 to 600 birds at a time. In young bird season/breeding season often people willl raise a 100 or more. Now how the birds are kept. That makes for a different story. A clean loft No smell for the nieghbors. Birds not sitting on other peoples houses Unsitely lofts that look bad. That causes many a nieghbor grief. Cities grow what was at a time not a very populated area may become a new sub division. If this person was told to reduce numbers to keep his birds ,Then he may have done that.Noise from 300 pigoens is less then from 1 loud barking dog. Many a person may have over 100 birds and the nieghbors never even know. I would not be to early to pass judgement Because some body had 300 pigeons and they made a little noise. Find out more of what lead to the city forcing this person to get rid of his birds. If noise was the main reason Then sonthing is wrong. As I said 1 barking dog makes more noise then 300 pigeons.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

CHRISTIN RN said:


> I know what you mean, Treesa, about the pigeons being thought of as 2nd class...'dirty' so forth and so on. How quickly people forget how they have served us way back from the days of Noah all the way to War War II and continue to do so!
> 
> We just have to keep fighting for them as well as for the rest of God's Beloved Creatures. At least we can be comforted that one day all of His Beloved Creatures will be safe and happy. Until then, we just do whatever we can to protect them.
> 
> Blessings of to all!


Yep, I can't agree with you more.


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## Hato (Apr 19, 2007)

I couldn’t agree with you more. Christin. I want to rescue every animal that needs a home but I can’t due to my township regulations. Of course, I can ignore the rule and go ahead to give them a home; but then if someone complains, what is going to happen to the animals?? I have to be a responsible caretaker for all the animals that I take in. I won’t do it unless I know I can take care of them for the rest of their lives. I have to wait until I move to bigger property to rescue more animals.


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

Dear Birdie Family,

I'm just resolving myself to praying that we all learn a lesson from this very sad incident. Being thankful for the birds that were able to be saved and leaving into God's hands those that were not. (He still does 'keep His Eye on the sparrow' (pidgies also!)
Special thanks and blessing to Zim for saving the 3 pairs and hoping that this thread will serve to keep us updated on their adventures...and of course some more pics! ....cute names would be nice too!
We'll never know the actual circumstances that led up to the horrible situation, however, we can continue to save our feathered friends by being responsible and considerate of our neighbors. 
We would all love to save every needy one that flys our way but can only do our part within the guidelines...keeping aware of whatever changes may arise...noting that what is deemed 'noise' or 'annoying' will differ amongst many. All we can do is try our best and heed any warnings at the onset.

If they only made little muzzles for pidgies!


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