# how to safely deworm ur birds with albomar??



## naresh j

hii everyone....from almost 8 months i trying to find praziquantel for treating tapeworms in my birds...but couldnt find it....so today i brought albomar dewormer from animal medical store....i read people say here its not safe for pigeons...but i have come across many threads were people everytime deworm their birds with albomar?? i also asked the person in the store and three months ago a vet ,if we can deworm pigeons with albomar....they said yes...
i really confused should i deworm my birds with albomar?? they only have tapeworms...as they are not in contact with open surrounding!!! but may the pair the i brought from a nearby breeder has round worms, although poops are firm and good but with tapeowrm segments!!! is it okay to deworm them with albomar..??


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## kiddy

Hi Naresh, 
People use albendazole when they can't get Praziquantel. When I didn't know anything about albendazole and drug store person suggested it to me for tapeworms I bought that but when asked Jass he told it is toxic to birds. I returned it to the store and found Praziquantel at another store but had to search a lot. If you ask at any human drug store here, they only have albendazole for tapeworms in all the combos because it is for humans. For roundworms they have Nemocid. I read about it and came to know it is toxic for birds. Can't say fatal all the times, overdose may be fatal but dosing correctly too harms them in terms of other side effects like weight loss and other health related problems which I don't remember exactly but I will try to find a link and paste here for you. So in my opinion, if you have extreme needs to treat your birds for tapeworms, then only use Albendazole else do not. 
Jass should guide you about the dosage.

Here is the link:
https://scholar.google.co.in/schola...&q=related:wALaAvRzNW_aHM:scholar.google.com/

Even you can Google for other articles from authentic sources.


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## naresh j

my pigeons are behaving normal and active...so i also dont want to use albomar ,if its not safe


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## kiddy

If you don't see tapeworm segments in droppings, no need to treat as well. Do you notice any segments frequently?


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## naresh j

yah i find tapeworm segments in almost all my pgeons....actually roundworms are very uncommon here and tapeworms vey commonr....the new bird that i brought from pet shop, after deworming her with nemocid...she didnt even passed a single roundworm but has tapeworm segment in her poop


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## naresh j

found his on a fb page....after searching on google
***Deworming***
Worms in the gut(intestines) of the pigeons makes the pigeons weak and reduce their performance. They absorb the nutrients from the food eaten by the pigeons. They are attached to the walls of the intestines. When they multiply in large numbers, they block the intestines preventing the movement of food inside the gut (intestines). Sometimes, the worms also come out of the vent along with the bird droppings.
Treatment: -Albomar (Albendazole) is the drug of choice to deworm the pigeons. It should be dissolved in water and given to all the pigeons except breeding pairs who are raising chicks. Mix 10 drops of Albomar solution to 1 litre drinking water. This diluted Albomar solution can be given to 15 birds. It should be given continuosly for three days. If you have more birds, then increase the dosage according to the ratio given above. If the worms are in large numbers, you will see many worms in the bird droppings on the first day when they defecate. The worms are expelled only after 24 hours through vent/anus when the birds defecate. Deworming is recommended every six months. Do not use sand/soil as the flooring material in the loft as the worm eggs are ingest


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## kiddy

If you see tapeworm segments, the treatment is needed. On Facebook you don't get opinions from vets but you get it from the vet notes available on different sites. The link I pasted is based on facts, not experience and assumptions. As I said it may not be fatal except for if overdosed but it harms the pigeons. Also if you dissolve in water the toxicity may be reduced being diluted as compared to given in pure form orally. People do give them Albendazole as I have seen in other threads so you can treat them if no options available. 
Let Jass respond as well and see how he tells about dosing.


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## spirit wings

Nare J said:


> hii everyone....from almost 8 months i trying to find praziquantel for treating tapeworms in my birds...but couldnt find it....so today i brought albomar dewormer from animal medical store....i read people say here its not safe for pigeons...but i have come across many threads were people everytime deworm their birds with albomar?? i also asked the person in the store and three months ago a vet ,if we can deworm pigeons with albomar....they said yes...
> i really confused should i deworm my birds with albomar?? they only have tapeworms...as they are not in contact with open surrounding!!! but may the pair the i brought from a nearby breeder has round worms, although poops are firm and good but with tapeowrm segments!!! is it okay to deworm them with albomar..??


Call or email the maker of the product and ask.


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## naresh j

that not gonna help.....i already asked the vet and pet store person they said its safe for pigeons, but i read some threads here where albomar was resposible for making there pigeons sick.
my pigeons are totally healthy and active....i dont wanna risk them for something that is not even a trouble...better to deworm them for roundworms once in a while..


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## spirit wings

Nare J said:


> that not gonna help.....i already asked the vet and pet store person they said its safe for pigeons, but i read some threads here where albomar was resposible for making there pigeons sick.
> my pigeons are totally healthy and active....i dont wanna risk them for something that is not even a trouble...better to deworm them for roundworms once in a while..


Look on the bottle, and call or email the company that makes the product. 
(They are not the pet store or a vet. )


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## spirit wings

Took me less than a minute to find them online. Use your noodle man. 
Registered Office
Virbac Animal Health India Pvt Ltd
604, 6th floor, Western Edge – I
Magathane - Western Express Highway
Borivali (East) - Mumbai 400 066
Telephone –022–4008 1333

The email is on their site as well of course.


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## Jass SamOplay

The vets give general opinions for all the birds together. So they say its ok to deworm pigeons with albomar. General vets themselves aren't clear about how it works on pigeons and doves. Infact a vet once called me and asked if I found its ill effects on my birds. The answer was yes and obvious. I've seen its ill effects on my birds personally. Three birds out of 55 showed limping after few hours of its administration. One was about to die. All other birds underwent a considerable weight loss afterwards. Doves and pigeons are different from other birds and shall not be dewormed with albomar. But its not clear how much harm it can cause to the pigeons and also its ill effects vary from pigeon to pigeon.
Bottom line is that it isn't safe for doves and pigeons. People in India use it because of unavailability and cost of other safer drugs.


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## spirit wings

if it is not labeled for pigeons, Then I would assume that is what a person would be told if they called them, in which you wouldn't use it for pigeons. Makes sense to me, I'm not sure why it's so complicated.


It is also easy to google pigeon supply and buy dewormers and other products online.


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## Jass SamOplay

Things online aren't savvy to buy in Indian scenario. We rather want to get it from stores. Also, ordering from abroad isn't easy and it takes 7-20 days for products to reach the customer. And its expensive


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## spirit wings

The wait is a non issue, thinking ahead takes care of that. As far as costs go I'm sure there are European companies online that take the bite out of shipping costs , but most here in the USA are reasonable, ( I've called for others)Being proactive and looking into things takes time and commitment , things sometimes are not easy, you have to work for it.


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## Jass SamOplay

Will try, spirit wings



Nare J, about the dosage...
One way is to add 10 drops of albomar to a litre of drinking water and give for three continuous days, prepare the water fresh everyday.
Or (for tapeworms), give two drops down the throat after feeding in morning and one drop in the evening after feeding for three days


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## Jay3

Albomar is made with a base of Albendazole witch is toxic to pigeons. Many vets don't know this and will prescribe it. Some have not had problems, some have had their birds get very sick, and some have died from it. The company that makes it may also not know about pigeons.
You say your birds haven't been out, but they pick up tapeworm from an insect, which is the host. They eat the insect, and the tapeworm grows.


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## naresh j

okay so i decided not to deworm with albomar.....i could order a dewormer online but due to personal problems, maybe after some months!!! 
i would use albomar only when pigeon will be highly infested with tapeworms!!


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## kiddy

If much needed and you aren't able to get Praziquantel, tell me, I may mail you.


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## naresh j

really thank you for that but, it makes no difference with ordering it online... let me search for it in big cities of mumbai, as i am visiting their after few days.....if i found it, i would update here!!


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## kiddy

I actually knew it so I never said but I know how problematic is when you desperately search for something with no success. You are searching for them since 8 months and you aren't able to get and it seems like a big problem for your pigeons , so I thought may be I can do something. My family is the same and I can understand they wouldn't like if I order anything online or someone sends me any pigeons stuff. My best friend brought me pigeon leg rings from another city and they were like why you bothered her for pigeons. Lol. These are parents but their love is precious we know and we too love them a lot so it's ok.  
What do you mean by other cities of Mumbai? When Mumbai itself is a city. Or you meant by other cities of Maharashtra?


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## naresh j

kiddy said:


> I actually knew it so I never said but I know how problematic is when you desperately search for something with no success. You are searching for them since 8 months and you aren't able to get and it seems like a big problem for your pigeons , so I thought may be I can do something. My family is the same and I can understand they wouldn't like if I order anything online or someone sends me any pigeons stuff. My best friend brought me pigeon leg rings from another city and they were like why you bothered her for pigeons. Lol. These are parents but their love is precious we know and we too love them a lot so it's ok.
> What do you mean by other cities of Mumbai? When Mumbai itself is a city. Or you meant by other cities of Maharashtra?


ohh sorry i think i should have said ''other towns''..mumabi is a big city!!!


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## kiddy

Got it...


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## Jass SamOplay

Cattle, poultry and stuff isn't allowed to be kept in big cities. So one may not find meds for them there. I get my meds from rural or suburban areas where there are poulltry farms about 15kms from my place.


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## naresh j

GOOD NEWS guys......long story but in short i found IVEC PLUS with another vet...
packet says it has prazi 50 mg and ivermectin 2mg....i m really happy.....dosage please?????


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## kiddy

Ah... I am quite relieved  
Here is what Jass told me about how to administer the drug. What you got is same as ipraz so will be same dosage :
"A pigeon needs 6mg prazi and 0.35mg ivermectin.
Feed your pigeons lightly in the evening kiddy and give water to drink throught night. Then give the mentioned dosage next morning individually on empty crop and do not let them drink or feed. Then give water to drink after 2 hours but don't feed anything. Feed after 4 pm. You can repeat the process for 2 consecutive days as tapeworms aren't easy to target.
Treat all your birds at the same time. Repeat the whole deworming process after 21 days gap thrice, to get rid of tapes.
After deworming,give multivitamins in water the next day"

Here is the source page link :

www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/my-4-months-old-fledgling-seems-a-little-down-77205-5.html


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## naresh j

okay so i have to cut 1 tablet into 8 pieces??
here are some question for you kiddy!!
what did you use as probiotic??
i m going to deworm them next month after all the babies would wean, so my pigeons would had tapeworms for almost 11 months before deworming, will that be fine??
is it okay to use tablets just before two months of expiry date??
i brought only few tablets as they were very costly at rate 40rs per tablet..... i will search for something else next time...what was the price of ipraz??
and a very serious question.... even vet had this doubt when i told him that each pigeons should get 6 mg of prazi.....on packet it was written 1 tablet pet 10 kg body weight... that would be only 2mg prazi per pigeon as a pigeons weighs only around 350g???


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## spirit wings

Nare J said:


> okay so i have to cut 1 tablet into 8 pieces??
> here are some question for you kiddy!!
> what did you use as probiotic??
> i m going to deworm them next month after all the babies would wean, so my pigeons would had tapeworms for almost 11 months before deworming, will that be fine??
> is it okay to use tablets just before two months of expiry date??
> i brought only few tablets as they were very costly at rate 40rs per tablet..... i will search for something else next time...what was the price of ipraz??
> and a very serious question.... even vet had this doubt when i told him that each pigeons should get 6 mg of prazi.....on packet it was written 1 tablet pet 10 kg body weight... that would be only 2mg prazi per pigeon as a pigeons weighs only around 350g???


Quote for avio tablets. You do the math. 

"This product combines two of the safest and most effective products available (Ivermectin and Praziquantel) for the treatment of worms in pigeons. Ivermectin is the most effective treatment for the resistant Hairworm infestation and one of the few products that is effective against Lungworm and nasal mites. Ivermectin has the added benefit that it will also control blood sucking lice such as the red mite. Praziquantel is well known to be the safest and by far the most effective products for the treatment of tapeworm in pigeons. It is not recommended to dose Avio-Ecto/Endo + during the molt. Dose 1 tablet every 12 weeks. Each tablet contains Iver- mectin 0.1 mg and Praziquantel 7.5 mg. Give on an empty crop."


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## kiddy

Nare J said:


> okay so i have to cut 1 tablet into 8 pieces??
> here are some question for you kiddy!!
> what did you use as probiotic??
> i m going to deworm them next month after all the babies would wean, so my pigeons would had tapeworms for almost 11 months before deworming, will that be fine??
> is it okay to use tablets just before two months of expiry date??
> i brought only few tablets as they were very costly at rate 40rs per tablet..... i will search for something else next time...what was the price of ipraz??
> and a very serious question.... even vet had this doubt when i told him that each pigeons should get 6 mg of prazi.....on packet it was written 1 tablet pet 10 kg body weight... that would be only 2mg prazi per pigeon as a pigeons weighs only around 350g???


Yes, I broke it into 8 pieces, that was 6.25 / pigeon. 
I didn't give any probiotics after this treatment, I just have vitamins +minerals (concitone) in water from next day onwards and then garlic oil pearls after few days. 
I am not able to get any probiotics here so if have to use, I will give them 1 drop of yoghurt very carefully as to not let them aspirate. Yoghurt is a good probiotic for everyone, even for humans.
Where 10 months have passed, no harm should be in one more month but since you have the drug on hand, you can treat if you see any signs of sickness and during treatment you can handfeed babies.
Yes of course it is OK when it is not expired even they go well a month after expiry but not advised just in case any harm you won't be able to complain anywhere. 
Ipraz as I remember was 2 tablets for 90 rps so yes these are expensive. 
I don't know why vet had doubt in that. We can't calculate pigeons dosage as per dog's or cat's body weight. I am sure dosage must be written for dog and cats. Pigeon's dosage is different than dogs/cats. It cannot just be calculated by body weight. Species are sooooo different. Lol
Think about cipcal 500 mg which is humans dosage and you give pigeons 60 mg so are pigeons 1/8 of humans' weight? Everyone has his own dosage. You can compare and calculate as per smaller and larger birds but can't compare bird's dosage as per dogs and cats weight.

Also, as spirit wings said that 7.5 should be the correct dose but breaking a 50 mg tablets into 6.66 or even 7 equal pieces is quite difficult so I think 8 pieces should be good. Also when I treated with 6.25 mg, within few hours they passed tapeworms so in my experience it worked well.


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## Jay3

Tablets and pills are safe to use and still good for years past their expiration date if they are kept under right conditions. Keep dry and if you can in a cool place.


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## naresh j

thanks kiddy, spirit, jay3..... really helpful advices....


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## kiddy

You are welcome...


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## naresh j

okay so its actually very disturbing for me to see many tapeworm segments in the poops of my pigeons, and have meds on hand......let me explain my situation in detail
so i have 3 pairs that i want to deworm......and want them to raise 2 rounds of babies before november.
two pairs, 1st round babies are about 3 weeks old and 1 pair's babies have hatched today.
so i was thinking to deworm the 2 pairs first as soon as the female lays [ changed to fake eggs]. and deworm the 3rd pair after the babies wean that will take a month...
so will deworming them at different times work??
can they raise 1 more round after deworming?? after that they will be on fake eggs for next 4 rounds!!!


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## kiddy

If they all live together then the 2 pairs medicated will be again infested from the third pair and you will have to deworm them again. So whole flock to be treated all together at the same time, that is what usually done to give the wormer until and unless they are in separate enclosures.


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## naresh j

all of them have their seperate cage....or it can be said seperate breeding pens.....
so i think deworming at different times will work...anyway i want to target only tapeworms as my pigeons are not showing any signs of having roundworms but still after completely breeding, i will deworm with pyrantel...


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## Jay3

Tapeworms are different than roundworms or something like that. Your birds cannot catch the tapeworm back by picking up the worm eggs from the pigeons that are not wormed. They must eat an insect, like a flea or something like that which is a host of the tapeworm. Being near the droppings of the other pigeons isn't what does it. Also, being in separate cages doesn't change anything either. If they pick up, and eat the flea that is carrying it, they will get it. So even if you were to worm them, if they again pick up an and eat an insect carrying the tapeworm, they will get tapeworm again. It is from the insects, not the droppings. Dusting or spraying or dipping your birds to keep the bugs at bay is what will help.


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## naresh j

yah i have done all possible things to keep insects at bay, i have sprayed them and give them feed after washing it....they got tapeworms before i was aware of all this things. so i will deworm them as soon as they lay next clutch!!


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## Jay3

If they are feeding, you don't want the babies getting any of the med from the parents.


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## kiddy

Yes they won't get infected from the third pair's droppings but thought if the segments are on the floor and insects already there eat them, higher could be the chances are to spread it from inside insects rather than outside insects which were carrying them from somewhere else. 
If the place is insect free then no matter if you treat them all together or individually for tapeworms.
Also, you probably planned to deworm after weaning?


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## Jay3

Yes, you would have to scrape and clean often and not leave droppings around.


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## naresh j

i am sure their are no more insects in the cages...cages have net from 2 sides for good ventilation....
yes i thought to deworm after the babies wean but i also wanted them to raise 1 more clutch so i thought to deworm after second clutch but...yesterday they had bath and as their poop gets watery...i saw some pigeons had poops full of segments, that really disturbed me.....but even if i deworm them now or after two months....problem of timing will always be there...because female who is close to lay eggs should not be dewormed...so deworming individual pairs is needed


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## kiddy

I understand, probably you want them to raise two sets before November because December will be extremely cold for babies? But as I know in Mumbai temperature doesn't go as down as here in U.P so any other reason to raise two clutch before November?


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## naresh j

yah after november, i want to totally concentrate on my boards for next 4 months...so i dont want my pigeons to breed so that i will have less work and more time!! LOL nothing to do with cold...its always warm here !!


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## kiddy

Oh that's what I thought, we have some relatives in Maharashtra and they never visit us in winters and say don't know how we survive here during winters. U. P is quite odd, summer is hottest summer and winter is chillest winter. We keep fighting with two extreme climates. Lol
All the best for boards


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## Jass SamOplay

No offense kiddy, but you haven't seen winters of the north yet  so your saying UP has the chillest LL


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## Jass SamOplay

Hi Nare J,
You were getting the right advice so I didn't post in, sorry.

Let them bath regularly in ivermectin treated water. That will keep bugs away and keep spraying the surroundings with permethrin. Keep your feed weevil free. Deworm all your birds again at the same time when feasible. Keep the loft/cage/surroundings clean so pigeons don't pick up live tape segments, are some precautions to keep tapeworms undercontrol


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## kiddy

Lol. I know, talking about plains, not the places near hilly areas else will have to consider many more. Even the area separated from U. P which is Uttarakhand is not to be considered in this chillest. Lol. India has variety of climates.
Better is to go to hills in summers and go to Maharashtra in winters. Lol never return to U.P


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## kiddy

Hope someone from South doesn't see "hottest"


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## naresh j

i m orginally from andhra pradesh, and as we have to visit their in summer vacations, it is just unbearable temperature even for us...LOL
and yes jass, i have done all the precautions to prevent tapeworms and i know its working as i still havent spotted segments in my young pigeons...
i m hoping to deworm in next few days....thanks


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## kiddy

you are already here. Lol
Forgive me


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## naresh j

kiddy said:


> you are already here. Lol
> Forgive me


LOL.....


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## Jay3

Nare J said:


> i am sure their are no more insects in the cages...cages have net from 2 sides for good ventilation....
> yes i thought to deworm after the babies wean but i also wanted them to raise 1 more clutch so i thought to deworm after second clutch but...yesterday they had bath and as their poop gets watery...i saw some pigeons had poops full of segments, that really disturbed me.....but even if i deworm them now or after two months....problem of timing will always be there...because female who is close to lay eggs should not be dewormed...so deworming individual pairs is needed


You know, when your birds have something like tapeworm, you take care of the birds, rather than worrying how many clutches you will get from them. Stop breeding and get rid of the worms. Until you get rid of the tapeworm, they are not healthy enough to breed. There is already enough stress on them from the worms. And the babies too will probably get them. If you care about your birds, then you will take care of them first and do what it takes to care for them properly. That should be more important then getting another clutch out of them. You are using them and being selfish.


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## Jass SamOplay

Agreed 100%.

Tapes can gore into vital organs too and results could be disastrous as I've found. Tapes can invade crops too and start to come out of mouth of the pigeons,I've personally seen so. It was horrible. They can even go to the brain. In some cases they're impossible to nail without killing the bird.


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## naresh j

Jay3 said:


> You know, when your birds have something like tapeworm, you take care of the birds, rather than worrying how many clutches you will get from them. Stop breeding and get rid of the worms. Until you get rid of the tapeworm, they are not healthy enough to breed. There is already enough stress on them from the worms. And the babies too will probably get them. If you care about your birds, then you will take care of them first and do what it takes to care for them properly. That should be more important then getting another clutch out of them. You are using them and being selfish.


i have to chose 6 best youngster from this two rounds... and other i will give them to two of my friends, who want to start pigeon hobby!!
i m not being selfish, do you know i have been searching for prazi from 8 months... i have just found it few days back, after 2 hours of travelling....!!....as i didnt found prazi earlier, i was helpless and and started breeding them with deworming...i couldnt take the risk to deworm with albomar...
and i let them hatch babies because i was not excepting to find prazi, so now i couldnt do anything but wait for babies to wean. and then parents will be on fake eggs , and then they will be wormed......
i really love them.......


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## kiddy

Yes I understand your situation and now after weaning babies in almost a week you will deworm 2 pairs as I have understood from your posts. And third pair after a month when their babies wean. This is as early as you can because they are raising babies.


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## Jay3

These birds should not have been breeding.


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## kiddy

Yes I agree Jay. And have to add parents as well as babies suffer the consequences of parents being sick while breeding. 
I am seeing a really terrible case of parents sickness in someone's loft and the condition is hard to see, all babies are growing with abnormalities. Was thinking to post here some day.


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## Jay3

If you breed sick birds, then you don't care much about them or the babies. You take care of the birds first, then worry about breeding. Doesn't matter how long it takes to get the right meds. These are things you should have on hand anyway.


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## naresh j

i agree jay that sick birds should not be breeding...but my birds are not sick, not even underweight.....they are very active...
i went to vet many times, for searching of praziquantel with different names....but he didnt had it....
i just see around that not even a single breeder [illiterate] deworms their pigeons, but still their pigeons are active and healthy [behaviour]


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## Jay3

If your birds have tapeworm they are not healthy. Did you even read Jass' post?
You are believing what you want to believe. You cannot possibly believe that having tapeworm, that are damaging your birds inside, makes for healthy birds. And on top of that you put more stress by letting them raise babies.


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## naresh j

k.....so today morning i gave them 1/8 part ivec plus to both pairs....and after 2 hours gave them water...its been 4 hours after deworming..but i found only a small tapeworm in a hens poop and some broken tapeworms in others, no roundworms in any poop as excepted as i have 0 roundworm infestion here but high tapeworm infestion. 
but is common to see only few broken tapeworms in poops.....no segments are passed. after searching on internet i got to know that prazi makes tapeworms digest...but that was for chickens..is it same for pigeons?? or will they pass more tapes after sometime?


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## kiddy

In my experience within few hours only they pass all what they have. Didn't see any worms next day.


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## naresh j

i checked pics in ur thread... mine also passed things like that.....they seem fine now. how did you cut the tablet??


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