# Gassy Crop



## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

I have a Brimingham Roller who had a wing boil. It was treated for a month with baytril injectable. Then given Probotics and Vitimins in the water. Now her crop fills up with gas. I squeeze the gas out. With the gas she fells no need to eat or drink. So I am tube feeding her Kaytee Babyfood. She is in the house on a heating pad. She tries to throw the gas up. But it doesn't work. Any ideas?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

That poor bird. Debbie, I'm stumped on this one. The Baytril should have cleared up the salmonella by now. Did the wing boil resolve? Does her breath smell sour? The only thing I can think of is sour crop, but I haven't heard of it causing gas. It could be she developed a yeast infection in her crop after being on Baytril. Hopefully someone will be along soon who has seen this problem. Any chance you can get her to an avian vet?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> .... It could be she developed a yeast infection in her crop after being on Baytril. ....... Any chance you can get her to an avian vet?



UPCD, I'm sorry to hear that your Roller has continued problems after the Baytil.
Do you have any Nystatin on hand? If you you plan to take the bird to a vet,
I'm sure he'll run tests for you to be certain. 

If not, have you looked inside the mouth for a visual check? Sometimes they can also have some whitish looking buttons/growth that would also be a sign of Thrush. Also, you can sometimes smell a distintive difference in the poop as well. It would seem reasonable that it is a yeast based infection after a month of antibiotics. 

You could put ACV in the water for now and overnight from Jedd's a product from Medpet called Medistatin, this would be Nystatin. Also, give her capsulized probiotics down the throat. It's good that you are making sure that she is feeding.

Hope the pij feels better soon,

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Meds*

I have Medizole, fishzole, Tony's treasure it is a 4 in 1, amoxicillin, terramycim, probotics, vitimins and eletrolytes, dioxi. I could check with Rena. Maybe she has some. Looked at birds throat pinky gray. no dots or whiteness. No bad ordor. Green pooh.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Meds*

I put ACV in the water. Went to Jedds they are out of stock.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi upcd,



The occasions of my seeing a Gassy Crop have been oweing to the Bird having Candida.

While, Nystatin or others are the official remedy, those Birds I have had who had it, the condition resolved nicely with the use merely of the ACV-Water, and me letting them fast a few days or more.


If they do not show interest in drinking, then, of course, one must tube feed the ACV-Water into their Crop for them...

In these situations, I elected to make the concentration to be one-and-one-half or even Two Tablespoons to the Gallon of Water for this...at least for the first few or several days, than a little more dilute after, being more toward the 1-1/2 to the Gallon ratio for another week thereabouts.


If the Bird was allright to do without food for some days, was heavy enough one might say or filled out enough, I felt that not feeding was fine...and that fasting would in fact benifit by not taxing an already largely shut-down digestive system...so, really, even in rather 'thin' ones, I have tended to let them fast, and not fed them for at least three days.

The Candida in my experience seemed to resolve in about five days or six, or resolved enough to where they'd start feeling good again and be pecking and preening, or if youngsters, then, in their asking to be fed.

The Birds I have had who had this either had eaten some foreign object which needed to be expelled or removed from their Crop, or, were youngsters who as orphans seperated from their parents, had gotten chilled while their Crops were still parent-fed-full and the food went sour in there leaving a Candida Crop still 'full'...even after days...or injured or contused Pigeons sometimes also, falls from the nest even...or who knows what with Adults, where the shock of injury or collision they had been through had maybe slowed or ceased their digestive system to where the food in it , in their Crop, had spoiled in place...or maybe they ate some spoiled musty food in desperation or something...and got it going that way.

Anyway, I have been pleased with the ACV-Water for Candida Crops or Gassy Crops or Crop Stasis.

I do not know if there are other conditions which can make for a Gassy Crop or Crop stasis, but, any Vet or MD should be able to do a Crop swab and examine it for analysis, and with that test, Candida is an easy one to verify if it is the culprit.

I treat for Candida if a Crop is not emptying after a couple days with new arrives, or, if it seems inflated or Gassy or sodden and 'low' looking, or if it seems sodden and not emptying fully even if they are pooping, especially if the Pigeon has no appetite, which with Candida, I think is to be expected...it makes them feel pretty miserable I think...and they can look droopy or listless...or depressed.

If they want to eat, I let them, but only small amounts untill I am sure their Crop is emptying well and their digestive system overall is dealing with food well enough.

I have seen them get their appetites back, over eat, and even though the Candida is probably about done with, their Crops can then, again, if in a slightly new way, take way too long to empty...so...I let them eat in small amounts for a little while once well enough to be interested...


Good luck...!

P.S.

I learned about this just after joining Pigeon Talk, and soon thereafter got in various Pigeon Birds who had it.

I am very grateful to whoever those members were that guided me both to the use of the ACV-Water in general, as well as whoever it was who had suggested it as a possible regimen for Candida.

When I did talk with my good-guy Avian Vet about useing the ACV-Water for this, he thought about it a minute, said he had never heard of it being used for Candida, but then said he imagined it would likely work very well to treat it. And, while he did give me some 'Nystatin' at that time, I did not use it, but used merely the ACV-Water... and I, and the Bird, were both satisfied.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*The Bird*

Is thin from Baytril treatments. I went for feeding due to low weight. Hope it works. Thank you, all you mean so much to me and my babies. It is nice not to be afrad to ask for help. And know people out there won't jugde you for helping birds who get sick or injury themselves.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One of the problems in a case like that is that the yeast grows in the Kaytee a lot easier than with actual seeds so it'd be easier to resolve the Candidiasis by using Phil's "seed pops" feedings than giving it Kaytee. I don't personally have any experience at resolving Candidiasis with ACV and, frankly, don't see that one very often at all. Usually, I only see it when a very sick bird has to be fed Kaytee a lot and then I go with the Medistatin because I've got plenty.

If you're stuck feeding Kaytee and the ACV doesn't resolve it then your vet can write you a prescription for it because every pharmacy will have it on a script basis. It shouldn't be too expensive and you don't need much. It is a "contact medication" so it has to go in and make contact with the esophagus from just behind the airway down.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

upcd said:


> I have Medizole, fishzole, Tony's treasure it is a 4 in 1, amoxicillin, terramycim, probotics, vitimins and eletrolytes, dioxi. I could check with Rena. Maybe she has some. Looked at birds throat pinky gray. no dots or whiteness. No bad ordor. Green pooh.


Hi UPCD, 

In the case of a yeast infection, you don't want to give any of the above anti-biotics, as they exacerbate the yeast overload condition. You can try Globals, they have a product that is made under their label by DAC, think it's called Glostatin.

The only other product I know of that is over the counter would be one put out 
by Thomas Laboratories called Fish Fungus:

http://www.vetamerica.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=242&Page=4

With all the birds you have, it might be good to have an anti-fungal on hand.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Ok*

I have a feed store which sells fish fungus. I go get now. What are seed poppers? After I get I'll ask about doseage.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi upcd, Pidgey,


Pidgey, thanks for jogging my memory, and yes, I have had juvenile Pigeons brought to me sometimes, where the person who found them had been feeding them K-T for three or four or five days by one means or another, and, sometimes these youngsters had the Gassy-Crops and Stasis which was from Candida.

I was forgetting the sometimes association there, between Candida, and when plain powder formula alone is used for feeding even the otherwise healthy Pigeon.


'Nystatin' to my recollection, while a perscription item, is inexpensive...and probably many Vets would have it in bulk where decanting a small container or little Bottle for a Bird, should be easy.

I have not seen any Beak turn 'up' to the ACV-Water, and, if anything, it seems they like it.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Can't get it*

I was wishing I could get it locally. But no pet or feed shop has Fish fungus. I am sure if yogourt could work naturally. That is what people use when gassy after antibotics. Any thoughts?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Candida and yeasts are funny stuff. They are included in Kaytee as part of the normal intestinal flora and fauna. It's when they overgrow that you get problems. It's almost as if there's some biochemical trigger that starts the disease process where the yeasts start budding and growing. That's when an antifungal can become very important. You might try calling up a pharmacist that you know and begging for some but have you tried the ACV yet?

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Debbie,

See this thread for a treatment using baking soda: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5880&page=2&highlight=baking+soda 

This may help in a pinch.

Terry


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## Mistifire (May 27, 2004)

Isn't it baking soda and vinegar that makes alot of foam? I remember using this to make volcanos errupt for science fair in elementary school.

Is the foam the objective or should the ACV stop being used while on the baking soda?

Sorry, I have to ask.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, you don't mix the two although the ACV is diluted so I don't think you're going to have a 'mad' pigeon out of the deal. Baking soda is alkaline so it does seem funny, doesn't it--using ACV to control it and then using baking soda if that doesn't work? I've never used either because I've got the other stuff.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, I think the point is to settle the crop out so that food can pass. The baking soda should neutralize any acidic gases put out by the yeast as a function of fermentation (carbon dioxide, I think) kinda' like settling a case of upset stomach in people although you don't hear of many folks taking "bicarb" anymore. Chemically, I don't think the baking soda actually acts as an antifungal.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Debbie, 

Sometimes pet stores have fish products, sometimes not a whole line. If there is an Aquarium type store specializing in fish you'd be more likely to get it there.
Otherwise, you could overnight from Globals. In the meantime use the natural remedies.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Called everywhere*

Got a Vet to sell me some Nystatin Liquid. I have 1/4 of oz. Pigeon wt. 2 oz. and one dietic syrgine. What dose would I give? Vet won't dose without the bird.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you read the Nystatin concentration on the bottle and post it?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And is the syringe a 3 cc or a 1 cc?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The information out of the formulary says "1 milliliter (one cc) to 300 grams, 2x/day to 4x/day. Your bird is about 1/5 to 1/6 of the 300 grams in weight. Therefore, you'd give 1/5 to 1/6 of a milliliter (or 1/5 to 1/6 of a cc) as one dose, 2 to 4 times per day. If you're using the one milliliter (one cc) syringe, then you need to fill to the "0.2" and then ooze that down the back of the squab's throat so that he has to swallow it himself. Don't give him anything to drink or eat for awhile (coupla' hours, maybe?) so that it can start killing the fungi from there down.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Nystatin*

1 cc syrgine, 100,000 units 1ml per 400 grams of bird for 7 days. Bird is 2 ozs.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's not very much different from the info that I posted. You can adjust the dosage down to about halfway between the "0.1" and the "0.2" on the syringe then, per dose for now. The bird will hopefully be getting bigger through this ordeal and we may have to slowly adjust the dosage up because of that.

How was that for prompt service?

Seriously, this is no laughing matter and I know that. It can easily be fatal or damaging to the chick and I hope that this helps and quickly besides. Best of luck, Debbie!

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Thank you*

Before I got this anwser I gave the bird.2c. Will reduce to .1c. Is this given once a day? Love the Quick service. Hope the bird can improve. The bake sodas a good idea will do that when I am out of meds.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi upcd,


For some reason, I thought this was an adult Pigeon you were dealing with...!


I did not know it was a little Baby one...!


Hope they are feeling better now...!



Phil
LasVegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Roller*

It is a small adult who is thin after 1 month treatment of baytril. They get thin with prolong antibotic treatment. Poor thing is light. This treatment is tough on any bird. I have treated 2 before this one. Wing boils get healed and it takes time to get weight back.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Debbie,

That is good news that you were able to procure some Nystatin from the vet, fungal infections have a range of presentations like many other bacterial or viral based infections. I think with the yeast/or fungal based infections, it depends on how deep it has reached and how long it has been able to take hold of the system. Some may be treatable w/the ACV/water solution, and some not. It is simply needing more intervention than ACV solution can provide. Because yeast/fungus like moist situations, the gastro-intestinal tract provides a great environment to flourish because it is moist by nature. You may need to drop ACV solution onto beak and allow the baby to swallow for the full length, also, the frequency would have as much to do with the healing process as the solution. In severe cases, at least six times a day. 

You have the Nystatin, try to have one of the mentioned products shipped to you expeditiously before the vet supply runs out and then, whether you treat w/ACV solution or with a condition specific medicine will be up to you in terms of how you view the symptoms.

Hope this helps,

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Debbie,

How old was this one when you started treating it with Baytril? And is it a smaller breed anyway? Two ounces is less than a hundred grams and so this is one very small pigeon. I'd probably lean more towards the 0.2 milliliters per dose given that it's light by way of the lack of muscle and not because of the dimensions of a two-week old chick.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,


Too, for that matter, if you mix the ACV-Water to be of one-and-a-half to two Tablespoons to the Gallon, and, use this for their Drinking and for mixing their formula with, there should be no problem with between-meals Nystatin being put into their Crop directly.

Anyway...yes indeedy, less-than 100 grams is very light...even for a small Adult Pigeon.

When you are feeding them, is your method able to allow something larger than fine mush-gravy to go through?

I am thinking of things you could add to their formula, but, these will make particles larger than the powder itself of course...so, they need a catheter or syringe-end able to pass things of about 1/16th inch or so in diameter, or, a little more...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Don't have a scale*

The brimingham roller is a smaller breed. She is 3-4 mos. May have made a mistake on weight. She weighs the same as 2 oz of water. I forgot water may weigh more. She has had 2 doses of nystatin. Was feed at 9:00 pm. This whole sickness thing takes it toll on me and the bird. She sure is a fighter.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,


Yahhhhh...I know well what you mean on how their being sick can take quite a lot out of you.

Weight of Water in Grammes, or weight of Bird in grammes, would still be the same, unless you mean she weighs the same as "2 Fluid Ounces" as Volume, of Water...in which case, my tired brain just gave up...!

Lol...

But hold on...I will check something...I'll be right back...

Okay, I just weighed 2 Fluid Ounces of Water, and, according to my gram Scale, Two Fluid Ounces of Water weigh just about 50 Grams...


So, hmmmmmmm...

That seems awefully light...! We thought 100 grams was 'light' and now 50 seems way too light, so...

I hope she weighs more than that...!


Oh my...

But anyway, your feeding method for now?


Will it pass small solids?


Phil

Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Debbie,

You can get an adequate 1-pound scale at a big grocery store for less than $10 (or around that). They're all plastic but they work. They usually read in grams as well. They're just so doggone helpful in this stuff that it's worth the investment.

Anyhow, you might try to get a more accurate weight on that fellow and readjust that medication upward. Shooting from the hip, I'd tend to double it.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Good Idea*

I'll pick one of those scales when I am shopping today. Another dose of med today. I'll feed her when I get home from church.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Debbie,

Think I'd dose @ least twice a day w/the Nystatin since you are not dusting seed and leaving out for the bird but instead hand feeding.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, according to the instructions it's from two to four times per day. By the way, how is the little guy doing at this point?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yup, the docs have told me it's the frequency that is important. In most instances, they will say 4x's a day min. although the Medpet says twice.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*The little one*

the bird is starting to pick at seeds.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Dose*

Another dose. Crop still gassy. Will feed in 30 min.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Problems*

when I give the Roller meds or Feedings they come back out of it's mouth. Slimmy like mucus. She looks like she is shaking her head and spits alot of what is in her crop up. The food is getting all over her. It dries and I pick it off of her. Drank some water, but not eatting. What do you think might be happening?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Too many things to count without running some real tests. If it were me, I'd use a swab down the throat to do a couple of slides--simple smear and one stained. AND a fecal float. I expect your vet would have to do that. Otherwise, you're going to be shooting in the dark. Could be just Candidiasis (bad one) or could be a combination of things like worms in the stomach/intestines with the other. There may even be some bacterial overgrowth in the crop. One thing's for sure--she ain't gonna' last long if she can't keep enough food down to live.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Debbie, how many times per day is the bird getting the Nystatin? Was there enough to give for a full 5 days? Do you think there is any change at all in the bird's symptoms after being on the Nystatin?

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,


The viscious circle with Candida, at least as far as I understand it...is that it will interfere with Crop function and with food passing from the Crop to the Stomach...

It interferes with the Stomach function, to slow or prevent food passing from the Stomach to the Gizzard...so that sometimes little food is actually getting through at all...

This of course is especially inconvenient for a Bird who is already 'thin' or light.

I have let them fast three days or four, giving them just the ACV-Water...and waiting for an empty Crop...(since when I get them, usually their Crop is half full of sodden low hanging spoiled Seeds or Seed-slosh, that I either have to get out of there, or wait till it all passes) so as to let things have some chance to clear up without food interfereing with the ACV-Water and or Nystatin concurrantly, for these medicinals getting to have good access to the lineings of their Crop and Stomach and Gizzard and so on...


Now, I do not know of course if Candida is the sole culprit here with your Bird, but, it might be the predominate one doing the most mischief, while other Yeasts or something are opportuning also in it's wake...possibly all they way up into his throat or esophagus, if there is mucous there interfereing with his swallowing the food which is being given.

But at any rate, my own mental model of Candida, suggests that food, formula food especially, will interfere with the necessary availibility of the Crop and Stomach lineings, for them to be available to the ACV-Water and or Nystatin or both, and, that this is something to bear in mind then with respect to feeding.

Is their Crop emptying between feed-times?

And, or also...are they pooping more or less an amount to suggest that the food is getting through?

I have thought of trying ( for Candida and other things, as a dietary/energy/aide, ) some of those 'energy booster' things they sell at 7-11 and so on...the ones for a dollar in the little racks by the clerk.

Some of these sound very promiseing..being low Caffine, and having quite decent mixes of various Vitamines and Minerals and Ginseng...

Being a liquid, they would not tend to 'coat' any interior surfaces of Esophagus, Crop or Stomach ( like powdered formulas, especially maybe, can be imagined to do)...and...might just perk a listless Bird 'up' a little bit...

If the Bird is pooping somewhat, maybe (small amounts a few times a day, of small sized Seeds given as) 'Seed-Pops' might be better for food for now, than the formula-mixes, oweing to their respective differences in physical texture...where, the Seeds will stay 'Seeds', hydrating merely, then digesting into softness and blobs I imagine, untill passing the Gizzard after their Stomach...instead of being a potentially semi-sticky or coating paste all the way from the get-go on down...or becomeing such as the Water in it gets carried off, where then, it can become somewhat viscous or Water resistant...and, in theory, harder to digest than Seeds themselves might have been...


Too, and maybe Pidgey can offer some conjecture here...possibly s-o-m-e use of Metronidazole might stimulate ancillary immune functions and intestinal vitality, which could be useful to the Bird for occasions of Canndida...but, this is just a speculation, and I have not tried it or read anything about it in this context.


Wishing them a turn for the better!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*So Sorry*

I had thought noone was anwsering me. I have been so absent minded that I didn't think to go to the next page. She has been taking water. She looks bad.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Meds*

Meds given 3 to 4 xs a day. Still have more meds left.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,


Please consider to use the raw ACV-Water and no plain Water...both for drinking and for mixing formula if formula is part of her diet.

Mix the ACV-Water to the tune of Two Tablespoons of ACV to a Gallon of Water...let her drink all of that she can stand, starting "now"...

Continue with the Nystatin, spaced to be between meals when possible.

Keep her warm of course..!

And unless her Crop is in fact emptying, consider to let her fast for a while...

How are the poops?


Good luck...!

Till next...

Candida does make them feel aweful...so they will look miserable sometimes...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*ACV in water*

Yes, She has been getting ACV in her water. She is warm. She is in a lab cage. It is surround by plastic. Look like a baby incubator. Heating pad is under cage on high. Put shaving on the floor. Vent holes on the side and top. Top holes cover with a towel. Side holes covered at night. She is a fighter. But her weight or lack of worries me. I do all I can for her. I pray like mad man.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This sounds like one case where I'd finally resort to a proventricular feeding tube--a tube long enough to tube feed all the way down to the proventriculus, bypassing the crop. I would also perform some cloacal and crop swabs to stain and view with a microscope to identify the fungi for sure. It might be advantageous in this particular bird to go ahead and ALSO get it on Itraconazole because if the fungi are in the process of going systemic, you're not going to win with Nystatin or ACV or both. However, this does mean a visit to a vet capable of that kind of thing, period, end of story.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Debbie, sorry the baby has continued feeding problems and you're this far into the Nystatin. Think that a trip to the vet might nail it down for you, but if this isn't happening, then you'd have to rely on the common problems that cause vomiting. But this is a baby and you don't want to just sledge it w/meds. 

Have you a topical wormer that you could treat the baby with? The crop problem could be yeast or bacterial, and Flagyl would help w/that if bacterial, but the concern would be that if it is yeast, Metronidazole would cause the yeast to grow even faster. Although, it may be possible that there are concurrent yeast/bacterial problems, but I just don't know what the odds are of this. Are you also giving some of the supportive care that would help kick start its own system into a higher level of proficiency such as probiotics along w/the Nystatin and ACV? Garlic has anti-bacterial as well as anti-fungal properties, so this might also be something to consider. I'm hoping the baby's health turns the corner for you and starts to show some signs of improvement.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Debbie, just wanted to add, that some strains of Candida, if in fact this is the problem, are resistant to Nystatin. A good reason to start in w/the tests that Poo discussed.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Passed away*

She went to sleep today. Her passing was peaceful and warm. She fought hard and so did I. But she has been called to a new flock of pleasures. Where there is no pain or suffering. Sorry to see her leave my flock. But one day I'll joint her flock. Tears are are flowing. I really miss her. I have alot of pigeons. When one leaves greive. I am happy for her.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Debbie I'm so sorry to hear that your little baby did not pull through. I know that you loved her as you do all of your babies, both young and old, including the sick ones you pick up along the way to help. I'm really sorry to hear the news.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Debbie, 

I'm so sorry that the pigeon didn't make it You did you absolute best to help her and the suggestions by all the members were great. She's in peace now and free from pain, disease or whatever was ailing her.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Debbie,


I am so sorry...


Phil
las vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh Debbie, I am so sorry.
You did so much for this little one. She had the best care she could get.
I am very sorry.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm sorry she didn't make it, Debbie. Thank you for all your efforts to help.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Debbie, I'm sorry that your little fellow died. It sure hurts. God bless you.

Maggie


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Thank you*

You are the greatest support a friend could have in a time of need. I am blessed to know you.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Debbie, I'm so sorry she didn't make it. I know you tried really hard to pull her through. But sometimes it's just too hard of a fight and they have to give up. I'm sure she knew you loved her. 

-Cathy


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