# PETA ALLEGES THAt Pigeon racing is cruel



## sgtpouter (Jan 19, 2007)

I was really upset when i read this that peta have the nerve to say that pigeon racing is cruel to pigeons ... since we care more for our birds than 
any other animal keeper. Heres the link let me know how you guys feel about this article its about a month old but i just stubled upon it. heres the link.
http://blog.taragana.com/e/2010/03/...acing-tv-show-calls-for-investigation-101102/


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Ask PETA how they would have Won WW 1 or WW 2 without pigeons. Sending them through all kinds of Bullets to save 1,000's of American's lives and "NOW" they are in a free country to object to us doing something we enjoy. BUT then again they enjoy doing what they enjoy because Pigeons helped win a WAR so PETA can object to other people's RIGHTS. My words for PETA is not allowed on this site.


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## AJPDP (Jan 26, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Ask PETA how they would have Won WW 1 or WW 2 without pigeons. Sending them through all kinds of Bullets to save 1,000's of American's lives and "NOW" they are in a free country to object to us doing something we enjoy. BUT then again they enjoy doing what they enjoy because Pigeons helped win a WAR so PETA can object to other people's RIGHTS. My words for PETA is not allowed on this site.


The reality is that more attention that is drawn to pigeon racing the worse it will be us. PETA will argue that we are not at war and pigeon racing is cruel. That we send our birds hundreds of miles away on a weekly basis and that they desperately race to get home trying to evade power lines, hawks, bad weather, etc...

My point being that once we are in PETA's crosshair's...we're in trouble! I personally have nothing against Mike Tyson, as a matter of fact i'm a fan. But alot of people conseider Mike bad news and the attention drawn to the whole reality show thing will probably bring pigeon racers more problems that benefits.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They don't "race" home. They simply fly home. They don't know they're racing, and we're not behind them whipping them to go faster. If the birds did not like home, they would not come home. This is why we sometimes get fly-offs, because the birds are too stressed, get up in the air, and never return.
Pigeons were designed to fly many, many miles several times a day in order to feed themselves and their young. That's why they have been domesticated and raced, they were equipped with all the right things from the very start. Now taking other breeds of pigeons and releasing them, THAT is cruel, as they don't have the homing instinct or experience in fending for themselves, to survive in the 'wild' for long.
Avoiding predators and weather - yes, that is something they face everytime they come out of the loft. Powerlines, not so much, since they are normally flying well above them, unless weather or other factors cause them to fly lower. Every combine SHOULD do their very best to only release the birds on good days, to give them the best chance of returning without problems.
This is something that has been going on for centuries - why are people just now complaining about it? Because someone they don't like has decided to make a TV show based around it?


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

tell those PETA People to explain this things. they are more cruel to animals and they don't know anything but to kill poor animals.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/2833-peta-kills-animals----and-its-a-felony
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/article_detail.cfm?article=134
http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm
http://www.thisistrue.com/peta.html
http://theinternettoday.net/pics/get-the-facts-on-peta-an-infographic/


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

AJPDP said:


> The reality is that more attention that is drawn to pigeon racing the worse it will be us. PETA will argue that we are not at war and pigeon racing is cruel. That we send our birds hundreds of miles away on a weekly basis and that they desperately race to get home trying to evade power lines, hawks, bad weather, etc...
> 
> My point being that once we are in PETA's crosshair's...we're in trouble! I personally have nothing against Mike Tyson, as a matter of fact i'm a fan. But alot of people conseider Mike bad news and the attention drawn to the whole reality show thing will probably bring pigeon racers more problems that benefits.


I live right here where they are doing the show.And I have some of the high up guys of the IF in my combine and we were talking about the show at our last combine meeting. And they were saying that PETA isn't really looking to go after pigeon ppl they just don't want Tyson making money of the show. And that if the show was about one of us normal pigeon flyers there wouldn't be any stink about the show. It's all for publicity for PETA the more publicity they get the more money they get in donations. One of the IF big wigs also said bad press about the sport is better then no press more ppl will know about pigeon racing then ever would have without the big stink the PETA has put up over the show. And has anybody seen any new stuff being writen about PETA and the show there was a blitz of stories and now it calmed down becasue they got all the publicity they needed already.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/l...manhattan-bird-club-misinformation-44017.html

See the above thread, and you can begin to see how such misinformation is being sent to all kinds of bird lovers. Maybe we all need to invest some online time refuting some of these distortions and out and out lies.


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## sgtpouter (Jan 19, 2007)

wow that forum really ticked me off i have never destroyed a bird just because it got lost or didnt make good time .On the contrary i've stiched them up after hawk attacks , or if sick nurished them back to health these people obviously dont know their heads from their butts.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Its all part of the hobby thats how I take it but yet personaly I don't vote for pigeon racing


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

you know waht peta is a joe oen if ppl didnt race pigeons the would be eating them 2 if we didnt fancy pigeons all the great breeds wouldnt be hear now peta can go shove it man we should start a anti peta i belive and some of their goles but mosr are darn rediculas


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2010)

Bluecheckard said:


> tell those PETA People to explain this things. they are more cruel to animals and they don't know anything but to kill poor animals.
> 
> http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/h/2833-peta-kills-animals----and-its-a-felony
> http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
> ...


"Simply put, the Center for Consumer Freedom is a front group for the restaurant, junk-food, alcohol and tobacco industries, and they regularly run elaborate media campaigns opposing the efforts of scientists, doctors, health advocates, and animal and environmental groups, because these groups all threaten the bottom lines of the CCF's corporate sponsors. The CCF says 'consumer freedom,' but they mean 'freedom to choose from our sponsors' products.'"

http://www.consumerdeception.com/index.asp
http://www.bermanexposed.org/


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

sasha008 said:


> "Simply put, the Center for Consumer Freedom is a front group for the restaurant, junk-food, alcohol and tobacco industries, and they regularly run elaborate media campaigns opposing the efforts of scientists, doctors, health advocates, and animal and environmental groups, because these groups all threaten the bottom lines of the CCF's corporate sponsors. The CCF says 'consumer freedom,' but they mean 'freedom to choose from our sponsors' products.'"
> 
> http://www.consumerdeception.com/index.asp
> http://www.bermanexposed.org/


I don't know....what does that really mean..."A Front Group"....you sound like you are trying to say that those people and their millions of employees and customers are some how not entitled to present their point of view ? I don't know how many front groups that organizations that you call "animal and enviromental"...have....but I am sure they don't have a monopoly on scientists, doctors, health advocates, and animal and enviromental groups, or truth or points of view. At any rate, this is a very slippery slope we are on here. Anti-freedom, anti-capitalism, anti-corporate polices etc. are all pretty much within the politcal spectrum, and this site does not wish to become a politcal forum or debate site. There are anti-racing pigeon and anti-business blog sites one can join for such discussions.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren...did you actually read the links that Sasha0080 included in her post?
I know it's difficult to believe as so was convincing you that the Pennsylvania pigeon shoots really exist too. Just something to ponder.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Warren...did you actually read the links that Sasha0080 included in her post?
> I know it's difficult to believe as so was convincing you that the Pennsylvania pigeon shoots really exist too. Just something to ponder.


All looks like extreme left wing anti-capitalist propaganda to me. 

As far as the single Higgins pigeon shoot, PETA won't do one blessed thing to stop that. They are simply using this issue to promote their own agenda and raise funds for themselves. It requires a new law, and that is between the voters within the Commonwealth and their Representatives.

And I see that Sash0080 was unable to address the very disturbing issues raised with all the links that Bluecheckard listed, instead she attempts to deflect away from those disturbing questions with some allegations of corporate sponserships etc. Which to me is all immaterial even if true. But, like I said, we really don't want this to turn into a huge debate over PETA. If you are a big fan of PETA, then go to their site and post on their anti-pigeon racing site to your hearts content.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

sky tx said:


> Ask PETA how they would have Won WW 1 or WW 2 without pigeons. Sending them through all kinds of Bullets to save 1,000's of American's lives and "NOW" they are in a free country to object to us doing something we enjoy. BUT then again they enjoy doing what they enjoy because Pigeons helped win a WAR so PETA can object to other people's RIGHTS. My words for PETA is not allowed on this site.


That's the problem with us Americans, given any amount of time passing by, we soon forget the issue at hand! like 9/11 we should show that TV film footage for the whole month of September just so we don't forget IMHO! Most people are like "well it didn't affect me and soon forget that their are bad people that just want to kill you just because you are an American no other reason needed! I wish TV stations would show more documentaries about our beloved pigeons and all the things they have done for us in the past, it is truly amazing some of the things these birds have done for us all!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

*Helloooooooo???*

Well, as far as PETA killing animals. That is the fault of all the uncaring pet owners who shouldn't own them to begin with, who let their animals breed and breed. There is no way there would ever be found enough homes for these animals. Why put the blame on PETA? There are thousands of unwanted pets without homes. Is that the fault of PETA? What are they supposed to do with them? If people would get responsible, and get their animals fixed, then thousands of innocent cats and dogs wouldn't be ending up in shelters and pounds. Do any of you people get it? We, as pet owners have the control over that, but too many don't take care of their responsibility. So just let them breed til there are more animals than there are homes for, and then let's blame the people who kill them, because there is simply no where to put them all. Don't any one take responsibility. Blame someone else. Come on...................let's put the blame where it belongs. On lots of the people who are making the most noise about it.


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## BTut (Oct 18, 2009)

I am a animal lover and i love my birds.But i am also a member of PETA==People Eating Taste Animals. Nuff said


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jay3 said:


> Well, as far as PETA killing animals. That is the fault of all the uncaring pet owners who shouldn't own them to begin with, who let their animals breed and breed. There is no way there would ever be found enough homes for these animals. Why put the blame on PETA? There are thousands of unwanted pets without homes.* Is that the fault of PETA? What are they supposed to do with them?* If people would get responsible, and get their animals fixed, then thousands of innocent cats and dogs wouldn't be ending up in shelters and pounds. Do any of you people get it? We, as pet owners have the control over that, but too many don't take care of their responsibility. So just let them breed til there are more animals than there are homes for, *and then let's blame the people who kill them*, because there is simply no where to put them all. Don't any one take responsibility. Blame someone else. Come on...................*let's put the blame where it belongs*. On lots of the people who are making the most noise about it.


Well.....let's see, PETA will collect millions of $$$'s from people because they pretend they are helping animals. So they tell people they will find nice homes for those poor dogs, and by the way can you make a contribution ? And then in a van, PETA members kill the dogs in a rather inhumane way, and then dump their bodies in a dumpster. Without showing any respect whatsoever for these poor animals. 

But, then you want to lecture racing pigeon fanciers on how their sport is inhumane ? All the while, you are taking poor old people's beloved pets, telling them they will go to good homes, and then you suffocate them in the back of a van. Shame...shame....shame.........you have no creditability in my book. Just a money making scam. 

You take some video's...the more tear jerking the better, even if you have to manufacture the conditions....then you sit back and collect millions. You PETA folks have no problem taking advantage of some old folks like Bob Barker with dementia, get them to give you millions....like to save the pigeons from the Pa. pigeon shoots. But, not a dime will end up saving a pigeon in all likelihood. The money that was collected, was for your efforts to video a single pigeon shoot or two. Those funds will simply go towards producing more Hollywood style videos in order to bring in even more money, or to fund some of the terrorist acts similar to the ones underwritten by PETA in the past. 

The blame belongs to the PETA folks, who killed those poor dogs and then dumped the bodies. And the blame belongs with those PETA folks who funneled money to the terroists who burned down buildings. To tell a poor old woman who gives up her loved pet in tears, because she can no longer afford to keep it, and then you take her last few dollars....(to help find good homes)...only to then kill the dog in a parked van outside, and then dump the dog in a dumpster, makes me sick. And you want to defend this type of behavoir and blame it on the old lady who simply was lonely and wanted companionship but could no longer afford a dog !  Do you PETA members have no shame ? Where is the ethics in that ?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Well, as far as PETA killing animals. That is the fault of all the uncaring pet owners who shouldn't own them to begin with, who let their animals breed and breed. There is no way there would ever be found enough homes for these animals. Why put the blame on PETA? There are thousands of unwanted pets without homes. Is that the fault of PETA? What are they supposed to do with them? If people would get responsible, and get their animals fixed, then thousands of innocent cats and dogs wouldn't be ending up in shelters and pounds. Do any of you people get it? We, as pet owners have the control over that, but too many don't take care of their responsibility. So just let them breed til there are more animals than there are homes for, and then let's blame the people who kill them, because there is simply no where to put them all. Don't any one take responsibility. Blame someone else. Come on...................let's put the blame where it belongs. On lots of the people who are making the most noise about it.


I get what your saying to a point. But why does PETA go after pigeon ppl as a whole for the mistakes of some. But one thing I don't get is according to alot of the crazy PETA ppl they say we should let our birds go and fly free where they belong. Why doesn't PETA do that with the dogs just let them go free instead of killing them. I know it's sounds redic because it is the dogs would just die out on their own just like most of the pigeons would if the crazy peta ppl got their way. They rather see the animals put down then have sombody keep them in a cage. I know I wouldn't mind being a pigeon living in my loft all I have to do is fly home from a race a few times a year and I'd get all the feed and treats that I could ever want. But back to the flying free where they belong according to some of the crazy ppl. The same ppl that say they should be out free also say that we put them in harms way because we make them fly home with all the birds of pray that will kill them becasue the pigeons don't know that a hawk will harm them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Warren, your argument is ridiculous. And twisting my words doesn't make it any less ridiculous. This is what you said:
_______________________________________________________________
And you want to defend this type of behavior and blame it on the old lady who simply was lonely and wanted companionship but could no longer afford a dog ! 
________________________________________________________________

That is a ridiculous statement. And that is not what I said, and you know it. 
What I said is that there are many more dogs and cats needing homes than could ever be placed. The only option is euthanasia. I'm sure even you can understand that. That is not the fault of PETA. That is the fault of all the irresponsible pet owners who allow their pets to breed who are now going to need homes. If the dogs and cats were spayed and neutered, then this would not even be an issue. Male dogs and cats are often free to roam, where they will mate with unaltered females. More babies. People who allow their pets to breed and then give them away to people, are just as guilty. If people were not getting these kittens and puppies, then they would be adopting them at the shelters instead. So by letting your cat breed and then feeling as though you did the "right thing", by finding them homes, you have added to the problem. Same with dogs.
If the only way you can win an argument is by twisting words, and by not dealing with what is actually said, than you don't seem to have much of an argument. The fault is on the people who let these animals be born in the first place. Not on the people who have no other option than to euthanize them. You may not like PETA, but this seems like a pathetic way to defend the sport of racing, if that is what you are trying to do. Defend it on its own merits if you can, not on the fact that PETA has to kill thousands of animals every year simply because people are cheap and irresponsible with their pets. That argument has no merit on what they are saying about pigeon racing. There is good and bad in pigeon racing. There are responsible people, and uncaring irresponsible people who race birds. You know that and I know that. Trying to discredit them on another matter, doesn't change what they are saying about racing birds. If you want to defend that, then do so. But when you go down another avenue to do that, then it sounds as though you don't have anything to say to defend racing, which is what you are trying to do. When someone does that, it kinda says that they don't have anything to say in defense of what they are standing up for. Come on now Warren.................you can do better than that.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Look to each their own. I find fault in people telling me I'm cruel to animals because I have pigeons while they eat their hamburger. I find fault in people telling me what's wrong with my life when they should look in the mirror. I give no money to any organization left or right but I clean my house. All my cats and dogs are fixed. My birds only breed when I want. I invest in good as and when I see it. Could I do better? That's for me to say and experience is a great teacher. Instead of looking out into the world and finding fault, correct your part of it. That truely is the only way to fix it.

Now understand this, we all are a part of nature. We can live in our houses eating our process food and pretend we're not but we cannot survive with killing and death. We are part of the food chain, end of statement. 

Food, pollution, energy, population; these are our albatrosses that must be kept in balance if we are to survive. One thing is for certain any one of these get too far out of balance and man's survival instinct will take over. Our History has proven this over and over again with WAR. My philosophy is this, "A civilized world can only exist with a full belly." So as we sit in front of our computer screens with our full belly and opinions, I wonder how many opinions would change if the belly was empty and hunger was driving our thoughts. Would pigeon be put on the menu? dog? cat? It is easy to say NO!!!! but then you have never been that hungry.

God Bless,
Tony


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Hypocrisy is the mother of all credibility problems, and PETA has it in Spades !*



Jay3 said:


> .......That is a ridiculous statement. And that is not what I said, and you know it.
> *What I said is that there are many more dogs and cats needing homes than could ever be placed. The only option is euthanasia.* I'm sure even you can understand that. That is not the fault of PETA. That is the fault of all the irresponsible pet owners who allow their pets to breed who are now going to need homes. If the dogs and cats were spayed and neutered, then this would not even be an issue. Male dogs and cats are often free to roam, where they will mate with unaltered females. More babies. People who allow their pets to breed and then give them away to people, are just as guilty. If people were not getting these kittens and puppies, then they would be adopting them at the shelters instead. So by letting your cat breed and then feeling as though you did the "right thing", by finding them homes, you have added to the problem. Same with dogs.
> If the only way you can win an argument is by twisting words, and by not dealing with what is actually said, than you don't seem to have much of an argument. The fault is on the people who let these animals be born in the first place. Not on the people who have no other option than to euthanize them. You may not like PETA, but this seems like a pathetic way to defend the sport of racing, if that is what you are trying to do. Defend it on its own merits if you can, *not on the fact that PETA has to kill thousands of animals every year *simply because people are cheap and irresponsible with their pets. That argument has no merit on what they are saying about pigeon racing. There is good and bad in pigeon racing. There are responsible people, and uncaring irresponsible people who race birds. You know that and I know that. *Trying to discredit them on another matter, doesn't change what they are saying about racing birds.* If you want to defend that, then do so. But when you go down another avenue to do that, then it sounds as though you don't have anything to say to defend racing, which is what you are trying to do........


I am sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was twisting your defensive comments regarding PETA. All one has to do is put the words "PETA kills animals" into your search engine and there are plenty of articles on the subject. 

I don't feel that I have to justify my pigeon sport to PETA or PETA supporters. I don't collect $30 Million a year to find good homes for unwanted animals and then turn around and secretly kill these animals by the thousands. 

To take these facts, and try to divert people's attention away from PETA's killing ways....and to point to pigeon fanciers and say, forget our killing, it's because of pet owners, now justify why you keep pigeons !!! Just seems a bit disingenuous. After all, this is a pro pigeon site. You don't see us trying to advocate, like PETA, that euthanasia is the only answer. 



See: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petasdirtysecret.cfm

PETA's Dirty Secret

*Hypocrisy is the mother of all credibility problems, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) has it in spades.* While loudly complaining about the "unethical" treatment of animals by restaurant owners, grocers, farmers, scientists, anglers, *(*should add in here pigeon fanciers*)and countless other Americans, the group has its own dirty little secret. 

PETA kills animals. By the thousands. 

From July 1998 through December 2009, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) killed over 23,000 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals." That's more than five defenseless creatures every day. PETA has a walk-in freezer to store the dead bodies, and contracts with a Virginia Beach company to cremate them. 

Not counting the pets PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 90 percent of the animals it took in during the last five years. And its angel-of-death pattern shows no sign of changing.

Year Received† Adopted Killed Transferred % Killed % Adopted 
2009 2,366 8 2,301 31 97.3 0.34 
2008 2,216 7 2,124 34 95.8 0.32 
2007 1,997 17 1,815 35 90.9 0.85 
2006 3,061 12 2,981 46 97.4 0.39 
2005 2,165 146 1,946 69 89.9 6.74 
2004 2,655 361 2,278 1 85.8 13.60 
2003 2,224 312 1,911 1 85.9 14.03 
2002 2,680 382 2,298 2 85.7 14.25 
2001 2,685 703 1,944 14 72.4 26.18 
2000 2,681 624 2,029 28 75.7 23.27 
1999 1,805 386 1,328 91 73.6 21.39 
*1998 943 133 685 125 72.6 14.10 
Total 27,478 3,091 23,640 477 86.0 11.25 

* figures represent the second half of 1998 only
† other than spay/neuter animals
» Skeptical? Click here to see the proof. 


On its 2002 federal income-tax return, PETA claimed a $9,370 write-off for a giant walk-in freezer, the kind most people use as a meat locker or for ice-cream storage. But animal-rights activists don't eat meat or dairy foods. And during a 2007 criminal trial, a PETA manager (testifying under oath) confirmed the obvious -- that the group uses the appliance to store the bodies of its victims. 

In 2000, when the Associated Press first noted PETA's Kervorkian-esque tendencies, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk complained that actually taking care of animals costs more than killing them. "We could become a no-kill shelter immediately," she admitted. 

PETA kills animals. Because it has other financial priorities. 

PETA rakes in nearly $30 million each year in income, much of it raised from pet owners who think their donations actually help animals. Instead, the group spends huge sums on programs equating people who eat chicken with Nazis, scaring young children away from drinking milk, recruiting children into the radical animal-rights lifestyle, and intimidating businessmen and their families in their own neighborhoods. PETA has also spent tens of thousands of dollars defending arsonists and other violent extremists. 

PETA claims it engages in outrageous media-seeking stunts "for the animals." But which animals? Carping about the value of future two-piece dinners while administering lethal injections to puppies and kittens isn't ethical. It's hypocritical -- with a death toll that PETA would protest if it weren't their own doing. 

PETA kills animals. And its leaders dare lecture the rest of us?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Perhaps I am over reacting. But, it's one thing to read about an organization doing underhanded things, and quite another to actually watch some people discuss it on You Tube. I suggest that readers watch this short clip and then you tell me if this PETA group should be giving lectures to pigeon fanciers telling us that the keeping of pigeons is cruel. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MblfdR459Rk

Just IMHO, they are a money making scam.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren...there is a huge white elephant in the room and we all know it...we can see the elephant but still we ignore it and so blame is misplaced so we can continue to ignore the elephant. 
It's time to acknowledge the elephant so here goes...

What do pigeon keepers do with their unwanted pigeons?
For example...when a keeper has too many young...the old birds get too old and room needs to be made for the young birds or a bird just isn't a good racer. *Now I doubt you or that anyone that is a member here would kill a bird or sell it to anyone that is willing to offer a few bucks or dispose of that bird or birds in any way that would put the bird in an unsafe situation *but there are many other pigeon keepers out there that would. They think nothing more of their pigeons than chattel and don't give a second thought to getting rid of them if the pigeons have fallen form their favor by not preforming. I wonder if that, in part is what PETA has an issue. I do.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Warren...there is a huge white elephant in the room and we all know it...we can see the elephant but still we ignore it and so blame is misplaced so we can continue to ignore the elephant.
> It's time to acknowledge the elephant so here goes...
> 
> What do pigeon keepers do with their unwanted pigeons?
> For example...when a keeper has too many young...the old birds get too old and room needs to be made for the young birds or a bird just isn't a good racer. *Now I doubt you or that anyone that is a member here would kill a bird or sell it to anyone that is willing to offer a few bucks or dispose of that bird or birds in any way that would put the bird in an unsafe situation *but there are many other pigeon keepers out there that would. They think nothing more of their pigeons than chattel and don't give a second thought to getting rid of them if the pigeons have fallen form their favor by not preforming. I wonder if that, in part is what PETA has an issue. I do.


I can only speak for myself, and members of the York Racing Pigeon Club, and that is neither I nor any of our members have ever killed a pigeon because we had too many of them. And I certainly have never picked up some dogs or puppies telling anyone I was going to find a home for them, and then kill them in the back of a van and then dump them behind a piggly wiggly, or any other such place. Sounds like to me, that PETA should get it's own house in order before they go around giving lectures. 

And what other pigeon or livestock owners may or may not do in order to maintain their animal or bird population, I find it hard to believe that any of them could do anything more callous or cruel then what PETA does. Just don't understand how people can defend such actions and say they are animal lovers. Just makes no sense at all to me. I am just shocked at the lack of sensitivity on the part of PETA members and their supporters.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I can only speak for myself, and members of the York Racing Pigeon Club, and that is neither I nor any of our members have ever killed a pigeon because we had too many of them. And I certainly have never picked up some dogs or puppies telling anyone I was going to find a home for them, and then kill them in the back of a van and then dump them behind a piggly wiggly, or any other such place. Sounds like to me, that PETA should get it's own house in order before they go around giving lectures.
> 
> And what other pigeon or livestock owners may or may not do in order to maintain their animal or bird population, *I find it hard to believe that any of them could do anything more callous or cruel then what PETA does.* Just don't understand how people can defend such actions and say they are animal lovers. Just makes no sense at all to me. I am just shocked at the lack of sensitivity on the part of PETA members and their supporters.



Time to start believing, Warren.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Charis said:


> Warren...there is a huge white elephant in the room and we all know it...we can see the elephant but still we ignore it and so blame is misplaced so we can continue to ignore the elephant.
> It's time to acknowledge the elephant so here goes...
> 
> What do pigeon keepers do with their unwanted pigeons?
> For example...when a keeper has too many young...the old birds get too old and room needs to be made for the young birds or a bird just isn't a good racer. *Now I doubt you or that anyone that is a member here would kill a bird or sell it to anyone that is willing to offer a few bucks or dispose of that bird or birds in any way that would put the bird in an unsafe situation *but there are many other pigeon keepers out there that would. They think nothing more of their pigeons than chattel and don't give a second thought to getting rid of them if the pigeons have fallen form their favor by not preforming. I wonder if that, in part is what PETA has an issue. I do.


I don't think it is right what some pigeon flyers do with their unwanted birds. And I've called ppl out on it when I've heard stories about stuff that should never happen. But that being said is anything they do to them any worse then what PETA would do with them when they can't find them a home?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Time to start believing, Warren.


Then perhaps you know something that I don't, or perhaps you simply have an overly active imagination, I have no way of knowing for sure. 

However, even if you could find a pigeon fancier somewhere who accepted money to find pigeons a good home, only to then kill them in the back of his van and then dump them into a dumpster PETA style, does not mean that I am then going to start drinking the PETA Kool Aid and support or condone PETA criminal activities.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I don't think it is right what some pigeon flyers do with their unwanted birds. And I've called ppl out on it when I've heard stories about stuff that should never happen. *But that being said is anything they do to them any worse then what PETA would do with them when they can't find them a home?*




I does depend up on the method. 
The point Jay made, a ways back in this thread, is that there are so many unwanted animals, due to the deglect of us humans, that there aren't enough shelters to house them all indefinately and so... as more come in...many must be euthanised. 
*It's horribe and I hate it.*
It really wouldn't matter how much money any organization had, there would *never be enough money to house and care for all the unwanted animals.* Too bad the animals suffer for the mess we humans have made.
Please keep in mind that there are *OFF humans *associated with every organization which would include PETA and Pigeon Talk.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Then perhaps you know something that I don't, or perhaps you simply have an overly active imagination, I have no way of knowing for sure.
> 
> However, even if you could find a pigeon fancier somewhere who accepted money to find pigeons a good home, only to then kill them in the back of his van and then dump them into a dumpster PETA style, does not mean that I am then going to start drinking the PETA Kool Aid and support or condone PETA criminal activities.


I really like you Warren and ...I think you are a stubborn person. I do remember having a very difficult time convincing you that pigeon shoots still occur in your state.
I think your comment about my overly active imagination is a very clever way to ignore that elephant in the room. Won't work. Nice try.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Look, once again no one here is going to convince anyone else of anything except you have an opinion, which we all do. This is one of those cases of agree to disagree and move on. Be it for money, good, selfish, publicity.... every organization has its faults and does its good. Nothing changes except the names and causes.

Death is a part of life and a life is never "saved" only prolonged.

God Bless,
Tony


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I can only speak for myself, and members of the York Racing Pigeon Club, and that is neither I nor any of our members have ever killed a pigeon because we had too many of them. And I certainly have never picked up some dogs or puppies telling anyone I was going to find a home for them, and then kill them in the back of a van and then dump them behind a piggly wiggly, or any other such place. Sounds like to me, that PETA should get it's own house in order before they go around giving lectures.
> 
> And what other pigeon or livestock owners may or may not do in order to maintain their animal or bird population, I find it hard to believe that any of them could do anything more callous or cruel then what PETA does. Just don't understand how people can defend such actions and say they are animal lovers. Just makes no sense at all to me. I am just shocked at the lack of sensitivity on the part of PETA members and their supporters.


You say that you don't want to be judged cruel by the way someone else might treat their birds. Isn't that what you are doing to Peta because of what those two PETA employees did, and the way they did it? Aren't you judging all of PETA, and everything they do, by those two people in the video? And you keep talking about PETA killing. I have not heard you address the issue of whether or not pigeon racing is at times cruel. And if it isn't, then talk about that. You are avoiding the issue, and all you can talk about is PETA killing. That is avoidance.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Oh Wellsky*



Big T said:


> Look, once again no one here is going to convince anyone else of anything except you have an opinion, which we all do. This is one of those cases of agree to disagree and move on. Be it for money, good, selfish, publicity.... every organization has its faults and does its good. Nothing changes except the names and causes.
> 
> Death is a part of life and a life is never "saved" only prolonged.
> 
> ...




I agree with you Tony.
Here on PT members that are rescuers/rehabbers collide with the members involved with the sport. We view pigeons from opposite points of view. We will argue for as long as this forum exists. That's just the way it is too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I don't think it is right what some pigeon flyers do with their unwanted birds. And I've called ppl out on it when I've heard stories about stuff that should never happen. But that being said is anything they do to them any worse then what PETA would do with them when they can't find them a home?


Yes, it is. They are PTS. Better than snapping their necks, or just releasing them to their own devices to starve to death. All you people seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the fault of society that all these animals are being euthanized. How do you suppose that PETA could possibly house that many animals, with more thousands being added each year. And how is being caged for your entire lifetime doing any animal a favor. Time to take responsibility folks.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Yes, it is. They are PTS. Better than snapping their necks, or just releasing them to their own devices to starve to death. All you people seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the fault of society that all these animals are being euthanized. How do you suppose that PETA could possibly house that many animals, with more thousands being added each year. And how is being caged for your entire lifetime doing any animal a favor. *Time to take responsibility folks*.


Thank you, I do take responsibility. I am the only person that I can take responsibility for. To each their own.

Tony


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Then perhaps you know something that I don't, or perhaps you simply have an overly active imagination, I have no way of knowing for sure.
> 
> However, even if you could find a pigeon fancier somewhere who accepted money to find pigeons a good home, only to then kill them in the back of his van and then dump them into a dumpster PETA style, does not mean that I am then going to start drinking the PETA Kool Aid and support or condone PETA criminal activities.


First of all PETA didn't collect money to find these animals a home. But you keep saying that. It isn't possible to find all unwanted animals homes. That isn't their objective. It is to stop cruelty that is done to animals in many different situations. Factory farming, and the way the animals are treated and killed. The unnecessary and barbaric treatment of the poor things before and during slaughter. Labs that use animals for testing when there are now many other ways of doing it. And causing pain and torture to countless animals in the name of science. Sometimes testing make-up! And running the same old tests over and over again just to get the same results. There is no need of that. Tormenting and torturing elephants from the time they are babies, to brake their spirit and make them do ridiculous things like standing on their heads. in the name of a circus, and family fun! Raising animals in tiny crates where they can't even move around or stand up. Puppy mills, where dogs are bred to death in tiny crates and treated horribly. The objective of PETA is to try and stop animal abuse...............not to house thousands and thousands of cats and dogs that will never find homes. And they DO fight these abuses. So stop saying that they take in thousands of dollars to house and find homes for the unwanted pets that our society doesn't care enough about to take care of. We have created the problem, and you are blaming PETA for not having an answer. There are abusive people everywhere. The entire organization cannot be held to blame for the few bad people. If they can, then so should pigeon racers be held accountable for what the bad ones do. And that seems to be what you are objecting to. Being judged unfairly. PETA does a lot of good, whether you want to agree with that or not. You just don't like it because now they are turning their sights on the cruelty involved in pigeon racing. Now are you really going to tell me that there isn't any? No, don't think so. You can't. So you will just keep on talking about how PETA kills. That is simply a smoke screen to what the issue is. The issue they are making has to do with cruelty involved in pigeon racing, whether or not they euthanize animals. If you have a better way to deal with thousands of unwanted animals, who wouldn't be here to begin with, if not for irresponsibility on the part of pet owners, then step up and tell us what it is. If not, then don't judge those who euthanize. Instead, spread the word to spay and neuter your pets!


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Yes, it is. They are PTS. Better than snapping their necks, or just releasing them to their own devices to starve to death. All you people seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the fault of society that all these animals are being euthanized. How do you suppose that PETA could possibly house that many animals, with more thousands being added each year. And how is being caged for your entire lifetime doing any animal a favor. Time to take responsibility folks.


I'm not formilair with your terminology what does PTS mean I know it must mean some form of killing of an animal I'm just wondering what it stands for. As for PETA not being able to house that many animals. Well if they can't house them then leave them alone don't take them and just kill them because they cost too much to house.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Big T said:


> Thank you, I do take responsibility. I am the only person that I can take responsibility for. To each their own.
> 
> Tony


Good for you Tony. You take responsibility. But how do you suppose all those unwanted animals got here in the first place? You can say "To each his own", but what does that actually mean? That it is okay for those that don't take responsibility? No, it is not okay. It is because of all those that don't, that we have the problem to begin with. And all the thousands of animal deaths each year is on them. Not on those who are forced to euthanize them. I know you are one who doesn't like to judge others, and don't like being judged. A very good quality. But the fact still remains that people who allow their animals to overpopulate are to blame. That is not a judgment. That is a fact.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I'm not formilair with your terminology what does PTS mean I know it must mean some form of killing of an animal I'm just wondering what it stands for. As for PETA not being able to house that many animals. Well if they can't house them then leave them alone don't take them and just kill them because they cost too much to house.


PTS...............Put to sleep


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I love how ppl use that saying Put to Sleep. Instead of saying you killed your dog. But you talk about all the animals and how there are too many animals and nobody to care for them so they must be killed. All I have to say is good thing PETA doesn't run orphanages.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I love how ppl use that saying Put to Sleep. Instead of saying you killed your dog. But you talk about all the animals and how there are too many animals and nobody to care for them so they must be killed. All I have to say is good thing PETA doesn't run orphanages.


Are you saying that you really believe that it is the same thing as with children? You believe that there are more children in orphanages than there are homes for? Since you are obviously judging PETA for euthanizing animals, than why don't you tell us what you would do with thousands of dogs and cats that will never find homes because there are simply too many. Why not put the blame where it belongs? On society.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im sure there are some things PETA has done that has saved some innocent animals. I just do not like their pushy ways. They have a van they drive around near here in hampton roads..they stopped at a girl that I work with house, knocked, she did not answer as she was alone and it was a white van..she did not see it was PETA on the van at first. she has two dogs, both playing in the fenced in back yard, the person in the van, when got no answer, went around back and threw two rawhides to her dogs...she works with me at a vet clinic and does not give her dogs those because of all the intestinal blockage operations she has seen with those kind of chew treats for dogs like hers that chew big hunks and swallow them... now..why would some dumb *** give someone elses dogs bones of this kind? driving around in a white van with PETA on the side of it...the person did this in the whole neighborhood... why do they do these stupid things and expect people to support them? they really do need to shape up IMO.. As far as this subject with racing goes, I think it is best the folks who actually do it should have a say on the matter, and since this is in the racing thread those are the ones to discuss such an issue... I do not race, but just wanted to say my neg opinion on PETA thus far, as that is some of the subject matter of this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> Im sure there are some things PETA has done that has saved some innocent animals. I just do not like their pushy ways. They have a van they drive around near here in hampton roads..they stopped at a girl that I work with house, knocked, she did not answer as she was alone and it was a white van..she did not see it was PETA on the van at first. she has two dogs, both playing in the fenced in back yard, the person in the van, when got no answer, went around back and threw two rawhides to her dogs...she works with me at a vet clinic and does not give her dogs those because of all the intestinal blockage operations she has seen with those kind of chew treats for dogs like hers that chew big hunks and swallow them... now..why would some dumb *** give someone elses dogs bones of this kind? driving around in a white van with PETA on the side of it...the person did this in the whole neighborhood... why do they do these stupid things and expect people to support them? they really do need to shape up IMO.. As far as this subject with racing goes, I think it is best the folks who actually do it should have a say on the matter, and since this is in the racing thread those are the ones to discuss such an issue... I do not race, but just wanted to say my neg opinion on PETA thus far, as that is some of the subject matter of this.


Well, if someone did that, then they were a dumb***. No one has the right to give anything like that to another persons animal, and I would be mad too. If one of those dogs choked on it, or got a blockage, then they would be responsible.


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*peta--where is there head.??*




sky tx said:


> Ask PETA how they would have Won WW 1 or WW 2 without pigeons. Sending them through all kinds of Bullets to save 1,000's of American's lives and "NOW" they are in a free country to object to us doing something we enjoy. BUT then again they enjoy doing what they enjoy because Pigeons helped win a WAR so PETA can object to other people's RIGHTS. My words for PETA is not allowed on this site.


one of the most highly decotated animals in ww2,,was a pigeon,,who injured in the line of enemy fire-carried out his mission...cannot beat that..ask an apache,,windtalker.!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> Im sure there are some things PETA has done that has saved some innocent animals. I just do not like their pushy ways. They have a van they drive around near here in hampton roads..they stopped at a girl that I work with house, knocked, she did not answer as she was alone and it was a white van..she did not see it was PETA on the van at first. she has two dogs, both playing in the fenced in back yard, the person in the van, when got no answer, went around back and threw two rawhides to her dogs...she works with me at a vet clinic and does not give her dogs those because of all the intestinal blockage operations she has seen with those kind of chew treats for dogs like hers that chew big hunks and swallow them... now..why would some dumb *** give someone elses dogs bones of this kind? driving around in a white van with PETA on the side of it...the person did this in the whole neighborhood... *why do they do these stupid things and expect people to support them? * *they really do need to shape up IMO.. As far as this subject with racing goes, I think it is best the folks who actually do it should have a say on the matter, and since this is in the racing thread those are the ones to discuss such an issue.*.. I do not race, but just wanted to say my neg opinion on PETA thus far, as that is some of the subject matter of this.




There are stupid humans associated with all organizations, not just PETA. 

We all need to shape up.IMO

Everyone has a right to an opinion.


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*pigeon racing*




Big T said:


> Look, once again no one here is going to convince anyone else of anything except you have an opinion, which we all do. This is one of those cases of agree to disagree and move on. Be it for money, good, selfish, publicity.... every organization has its faults and does its good. Nothing changes except the names and causes.
> 
> Death is a part of life and a life is never "saved" only prolonged.
> 
> ...


despite what i think,,i was of the same opinion,,-for some years ago--i got involved by finding a banded pigeon in a dangerous part of town/hawks/--i put in an extra effort/with binoculars reading the leg tag,contacting the owner-and informing him-that pick up is imperative,,as i cannot catch-to-protect from hawks,,he never showed and the hawk had dinner,,--i was very mad-at/about this so called sport,..i am a wildlife person,,but i disagree with peta--unless they are only after irresponsible people who don,t care about their animals,,but one must not judge a book by its cover.//.race on responsibly...sincerely james waller


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Are you saying that you really believe that it is the same thing as with children? You believe that there are more children in orphanages than there are homes for? Since you are obviously judging PETA for euthanizing animals, than why don't you tell us what you would do with thousands of dogs and cats that will never find homes because there are simply too many. Why not put the blame where it belongs? On society.


There must be more children then there are homes for them because if there was homes for them they wouldn't need orphanages. But to me all living things are put here to live not to be killed by sombody for no reason. You ppl protest KFC and who ever else becasue they mistreat animals and what not but you taking an animal and killing it becasue they have no place to go is ok. Atleast the animals KFC kills gets used as food the ones PETA kills just get dumped in a dumpter. Atleast treat them with a lil respect after you kill the poor dogs.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> There are stupid humans associated with all organizations, not just PETA.
> 
> We all need to shape up.IMO
> 
> Everyone has a right to an opinion.




well of course, PETA was the thread subject.... add more if you like.


Im doing MY best IMO....


I would of not posted if that were not true, so I gave mine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> As far as this subject with racing goes, I think it is best the folks who actually do it should have a say on the matter, and since this is in the racing thread those are the ones to discuss such an issue... I do not race, but just wanted to say my neg opinion on PETA thus far, as that is some of the subject matter of this.


Somehow I missed this part of your comment. Does that mean that others shouldn't have an opinion? All these people are doing is talking about how PETA kills dogs and cats. As far as I can see, that has nothing to do with racing. And hate PETA if you must, but all I have been saying is that it is not their fault that overpopulated animals have to be put down. How can any one disagree with that? How can anyone not agree that it is the fault of those who let them breed to begin with. I mean come on, that isn't rocket science.


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## sgtpouter (Jan 19, 2007)

hey guys when i posted this thread about Peta i didnt mean it to get us arguing amongst eachother remember the problem is with Peta not eachother
we are all pigeon lovers and active flyersand racers and are on the same team
if anything we should aquire as much info to be ready incase peta tries to expand its agenda against the old pigeon flyers that ahev been doing this for years.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> There must be more children then there are homes for them because if there was homes for them they wouldn't need orphanages. But to me all living things are put here to live not to be killed by sombody for no reason. You ppl protest KFC and who ever else becasue they mistreat animals and what not but you taking an animal and killing it becasue they have no place to go is ok. Atleast the animals KFC kills gets used as food the ones PETA kills just get dumped in a dumpter. Atleast treat them with a lil respect after you kill the poor dogs.


Well, for one thing, if there were enough children to go around, then people wouldn't have to go over seas to get one.

And as far as protesting about killing the chickens for KFC for food. That isn't the protest. It is that those chickens are often tortured and kicked, and stomped on for fun by the sickos that kill them. Killing them for food, and torturing them are two entirely different things.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Well, for one thing, if there were enough children to go around, then people wouldn't have to go over seas to get one.


I found these stats about children in the United States In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children. Just because ppl go over seas to get kids doen't mean there isn't plenty of children here who need homes. Now if PETA was running an orphanage with all the kids what would they do with them. Just put them to sleep becasue nobody wants them because thats really the only ethical thing to do isn't it. I know it sounds crazy because it is I'm just trying to show you how crazy your logic is about killing animals becasue there's no homes for them and acting like your doing the animals a favor by killing them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I found these stats about children in the United States In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children. Just because ppl go over seas to get kids doen't mean there isn't plenty of children here who need homes. Now if PETA was running an orphanage with all the kids what would they do with them. Just put them to sleep becasue nobody wants them because thats really the only ethical thing to do isn't it. I know it sounds crazy because it is I'm just trying to show you how crazy your logic is about killing animals becasue there's no homes for them and acting like your doing the animals a favor by killing them.


...
What a digression! All the while...the elephant is still in the room and no one will acknowledge him.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Charis said:


> ...
> What a digression! All the while...the elephant is still in the room and no one will acknowledge him.


I don't mind the elephant as long as he don't crap on my rug. LoL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I found these stats about children in the United States In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children. Just because ppl go over seas to get kids doen't mean there isn't plenty of children here who need homes. Now if PETA was running an orphanage with all the kids what would they do with them. Just put them to sleep becasue nobody wants them because thats really the only ethical thing to do isn't it. I know it sounds crazy because it is I'm just trying to show you how crazy your logic is about killing animals becasue there's no homes for them and acting like your doing the animals a favor by killing them.


My logic isn't crazy. There are thousands of animals killed every year because there is just no place to put them. You can't possibly house them all. And what would be the point? You would just have to keep building shelters, and for what purpose? So that tens of thousands of animals could live in cages for their lifetime. That sounds really fair to the animal. You can't just have them roaming the streets and starving. Animals need to have a home. There aren't enough homes for thousands of them. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THEM. NO PLACE TO KEEP THAT MANY. WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING? Fix the problem ................Fix the animals so that they don't breed! Stop blaming PETA, whose job isn't saving every stray animal in the world.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> My logic isn't crazy. There are thousands of animals killed every year because there is just no place to put them. You can't possibly house them all. And what would be the point? You would just have to keep building shelters, and for what purpose? So that tens of thousands of animals could live in cages for their lifetime. That sounds really fair to the animal. You can't just have them roaming the streets and starving. Animals need to have a home. There aren't enough homes for thousands of them. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THEM. NO PLACE TO KEEP THAT MANY. WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING? Fix the problem ................Fix the animals so that they don't breed! Stop blaming PETA, whose job isn't saving every stray animal in the world.


So what is PETA's job just to kill them? If PETA isn't trying to help the animals and just taking in animals and killing over 80% of them. Just leave them alone and let the local animal control take care of it. Why get involved with the actual killing of the animals if your only looking out for the animals best intrests.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Charis said:


> Warren...there is a huge white elephant in the room and we all know it...we can see the elephant but still we ignore it and so blame is misplaced so we can continue to ignore the elephant.
> It's time to acknowledge the elephant so here goes...
> 
> What do pigeon keepers do with their unwanted pigeons?
> For example...when a keeper has too many young...the old birds get too old and room needs to be made for the young birds or a bird just isn't a good racer. *Now I doubt you or that anyone that is a member here would kill a bird or sell it to anyone that is willing to offer a few bucks or dispose of that bird or birds in any way that would put the bird in an unsafe situation *but there are many other pigeon keepers out there that would. They think nothing more of their pigeons than chattel and don't give a second thought to getting rid of them if the pigeons have fallen form their favor by not preforming. I wonder if that, in part is what PETA has an issue. I do.


Some ppl may get ride of their birds in ways that aren't acceptable to me or you but those ppl are low life's. Just like the person who posted this on that New York Bird Club Website. 

Arlene Yesterday at 09:38 PM Reply with quote #26 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I kill pigeons that I find and I do it ethically; quick and fast. I will not be returning any racing pigeons that I find to racing lofts. I would rather euthanize them myself quick and fast and make sure that pigeon racers don't kill them slow and in an inhumane manner. SO, like I said, either keep them for yourself as a pet or kill them fast and quick so that they feel no pain...it's the best choice.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is killing the bird on your own be better then taking a chance that the owner might killed by the owner. Atleast with the owner the bird would stand an chance.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Some ppl may get ride of their birds in ways that aren't acceptable to me or you but those ppl are low life's. Just like the person who posted this on that New York Bird Club Website.
> 
> Arlene Yesterday at 09:38 PM Reply with quote #26
> 
> ...



Well...I have an issue with that person. I suspect PETA would too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> So what is PETA's job just to kill them? If PETA isn't trying to help the animals and just taking in animals and killing over 80% of them. Just leave them alone and let the local animal control take care of it. Why get involved with the actual killing of the animals if your only looking out for the animals best intrests.


Killing is sometimes more humane then leaving them on the streets to starve. You don't get it, and you're not going to so I'm not going to try to explain it to you. Good night.


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