# Needing help again



## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I have a very sick pigeon that I found laying in my yard this morning. My Avian Vet is out of town and its a 40 minute drive to their office and cannot drive because of cataracts. The pigeon walks fine but very very weak with drooping wings and I fed it and it has perked up a bit. It weighs 270 grams and light in feel with no respiratory problem. This morning I gave it 0.12 cc orally of Baytril suspension 30mg/ml and will repeat at 6pm for it's second dose. I do believe this pigeon has canker for its mouth is white and this could be because of it needing vitamin B's because it seems anemic with lack of strength. I do believe this pigeon has canker. Not experienced with canker in pigeons. I want to give it Flagyl suspension 100mg/ml bottle that I got from the vet over a year ago. On a pigeon weighing 270 grams and very weak how much do I give it? Any help would be appreciated. I have crop fed it Exact as well as a few very tiny peas and corn and wheat and have given it water mixed with Aviozole one teaspoon mixed in a gallon of water about every two hours and it does seem a bit better but in reality I do not have hope for this wild pigeon. I would like to try the Flagyl suspension and how much do I give it? Really appreciate once again your suggestions. I also have on hand Albon but have not used this yet. Would Baytril suspension and Flagyl suspension be okay to give at the same time. Update on Margie the finch who is doing wonderful with no seizures at all. Needing help with this new pigeon..Thanks.. It's about 8 0r 9 months old and my camera has gone whacky. Thanks


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well I guess you people are very busy at the moment. This is just a update. The pigeon is holding its own and still alive. The pooping has improved "somewhat" mostly brown with a very creamy white appearance and lots of it. The mouth now is more white and I do not know if the medicine has done this or not but the pigeon is still in a relaxed state sitting in a upright position--seems to be "somewhat better' but I cannot judge at this point. I gave it 0.03 cc's of flagyl at five and also 0.12 cc's of Baytril at 6pm. I also fed it and gave it three droppers of water a little bit at a time. I put it to bed and if it is alive in the morning I will be totally surprised. Just an update..


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok so correct me if Im wrong what is aviZOLE if that is a medicine then being in the ZOLE family, I would say you are doubling up on protozoal meds. So either OR but not both. Pick one. Continue to give supportive care and warmth if needed, feed again EITHER or but not both at the same time of the food. So either hand feeding formula and then next feeding give peas and corn, but dont mix the two, they may make the bird puke. 

REST is key, and give the baytril and the protozoa meds at different times in the day, good luck, post pics when u can of his poop and him and his body posture.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, thank you for helping the poor sick bird. Hope he responds soon.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for your posting and advice--really appreciate this. This Aviozole I got from Foy's Pigeon Supply and it is a pure grade of Ronidazole for the treatment of Canker. This is powder that you mix in water for loft treatment for Trichomoniasis and Hexamitosis You mix in a gallon jug of water and using just one teaspoon and put it for their water supply. I had it on hand but never had to use it so I am trying it on this pigeon with Baytril twice a day for 7 to 10 days. I would prefer to try Flagyl but do not have experience with this type of medicine. This way I can let the pigeon drink on its own when and if it gets better. I just mix it and put it in its cage area water dish. This is suppose to be the safest canker medicine for pigeons and cage birds. Thanks for letting me know about not mixing the two protozoal medicines. This is helpful advice. I will drop the flagyl (Metronidazole) for now and see how this pigeon fares tomorrow on the Baytril and Aviozole . Thanks for the good advice really appreciate. Will not give the medicine at the same time as feeding. I picked up all grit as well. Hope the pigeon improves tomorrow but this is one sick birdie. Thanks.. I will give the Aviozole for three to five days. This flagyl is in suspension form and 100mg/ml strength that I got from the vet about one year ago and one gives this suspension orally twice a day which seems like a very low dose at 0.03cc but I know it is potent so I will hold off on this until I get further knowledge concerning. Thanks so much.. Thanks for the good vibes and well wishes cwebster as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi c.hert. The flagyl is a suspension and they don't last past a year really, so the Aviozole is probably a better choice, as long as he is drinking enough to get enough of the med. Maybe use some of the Aviozole water in the formula. It's really better to have tablets, like Metronidazole or Fishzole, and they last for years past their expiration date if kept well. Maybe in the meantime you can get some tablets for canker.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

In what sense the mouth is white? Is the mucosa discolored or there are some small white plaques? If second, probably is candida, a fungus. And possibly is to late to treat but you may try. 

The medicines are fluconazole and nystatin, plus apple cider vinegar. You have to give all three, or at least fluconazole and acv, as fluconazole acts on the fungus that grew on mouth (and eventually respiratory system) while the acv and nystatin on the one that may be present on the bottom of the crop.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If this pigeon can make it through this night and seem improved tomorrow I will feel more relieved. My camera has flaked out and I cannot give you people any pictures at this moment. Having sick pigeons to care for is very stressful for me especially since I depend on the experts for advice. It is stressful for all of us caretakers as well as pigeon racing people. Some people just have a knack for this type of caring but I on the other hand start to get upset the minute I decide on what exactly I am to do to get the pigeon well. I have gave a helping hand to many pigeons and it ended well but on the other hand I have my stories that did not go too well. One needs a lot of confidence on the caring with a no emotion involved attitude and for me that is very very hard to do. Even when I crop fed this pigeon my legs were shaking thinking am I doing this right and am I going to kill this pigeon. I just knew that I had to get some soft food with nutrition down this pigeon.s crop. It went well but then I switched to small seeds because I am more confident with giving that food and the pigeon ate them okay. I am talking about seeds like round wheat pieces, peas and corn to where the pigeon would not aspirate on them. This takes a lot out of me. I know that I have to do these things in order to give this young birdie a chance. When I give it water every two hours I wet the outside of the beak with the dropper and the pigeon swallows it on it own but this takes a lot of time but I am confident with this method. It's a matter of confidence and experience with handling this type of illness. I can do the basics--starvation, broken wings and legs, splay feet, PMV both bacteria and virus by supportive methods. I can feed babies but when its complicated with the diagnosis I get jittery. I depend on my Avian Vet for diagnosis and testing and his support helps me out with treatment that I give. With my constitution the way I am built I should never got involved with pigeon care but I love them so much. Theory is one thing but the practice is an entirely different ball game. I could never have been a vet seeing what they do and what they are capable of doing to help animals. They have strong constitutions if you know what I mean. People do not give credit to the caretakers of pigeons or do they give credit to the racers for a pigeon keepers work is never done and always there everyday for a long long time. The work is hard as you know and its constant as you know. I must be crazy to be in this type of hobby or care. But the point is when I look into a pigeons eyes I see the work of God. So I am stuck with this burden and it takes "years" to maintain a healthy loft as well as money that is needed. Thanks for the postings good people. Thanks.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, you are a wonderful person. Bless you for what you do!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The pigeon is still alive, not by much. There is a added problem of stress for this is a wild pigeon and I can only fool with it for only so long before it starts the open mouth breathing to where I immediately have to put it back in its cage to calm down. If I do not immediately put it back in low light cage it will die. I managed to get about 10 assorted seeds down its throat one at a time as well as three droppers of water by letting it suck it up itself by placing it on the outside of the beak in the back. It is resting peacefully now on its pillow. In about four hours I will feed it again by crop feeding with Exact Baby bird formula. Yesterday I managed to get 10 cc's into its crop with a thickness of baby food. The rest of its days feeding was corn, peas, wheat and other larger round seed that I had faith to put down its mouth so as not to aspirate this pigeon. I fed it three times yesterday with water. I will give it 0.12 cc.s of Baytril suspension with a strength of 30mg/ml vet kind and this is 12 little lines on a 1ml medicine dropper. I will give this in two hours about 10am. This will be given twice a day for 7 to 10 days. Some people suggest one dose once a day but you have to double up on the dose and this pigeon is in too weak of a condition to do this as well as having a low weight of 270 grams. For now I will not give the Aviozole because of its weakening condition for I want to gets its nutrition up a bit and have the bird stronger before I attempt again the Canker medicine. This could be a wrong decision but this is what I have decided to do for this day. If anyone has any suggestions they would be much appreciated. The pigeon is weak but its eyes are brighter. Had to say something positive here for I really give this pigeon no hope. My camera is broke and I describe the dropping as little rectangles having a drab green color and no white or hardly any. They are mushy with a slight odor. Just a update and thanks for the support. Any suggestions or advice from people who know more than me and thats everybody. lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't stop the canker med. That may be the one the bird needs to get better. You shouldn't start a med then stop it as that just helps the bacteria or parasite or whatever it is that you are treating, to build a resistance to the drug. If it is canker, and you stop the med, then how will he get stronger? He will get worse.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

With your expertise regarding Canker I will continue with it but the problem is I do not know the dosage amount that a loft of 60 pigeons would drink in a day because this medicine is put in water and its 25% more in strength. This bird is not drinking water on its own. The directions say add a teaspoon of this medicine in a gallon of water and put down for the loft birds. How much do racing pigeons drink in a day but wild pigeons drink less I think but I am not sure. Anyone can help me with this factor I would feel more confident on the dosage. It says to not give to weaken or very young birds. Thanks.. I will continue it but in a lesser way. Maybe if the pigeon is drinking about three droppers each session at four times a day I will give it on two sessions and does this sound feaseable to you. Help..


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

c.hert said:


> With your expertise regarding Canker I will continue with it but the problem is I do not know the dosage amount that a loft of 60 pigeons would drink in a day because this medicine is put in water and its 25% more in strength. This bird is not drinking water on its own.


You can calculate how many mg of dried medicine a pigeon should take / day and then, using a high precision scale, separate that amount of drug, mix it with water, put in a syringe with tube and give to the bird.

High precision scales are not expensive, I bought mine for 30 $ and works fine.[/QUOTE]


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh C. hert, I couldn't see this thread yesterday and when now I see it, I understand why you weren't able to sleep. I am so sorry that you were so stressed and wasn't able to sleep because of this bird. May God bless you for your care and concern about the bird. 

This is what I got for dosage of your medicine :

AvioZole 25% - 100g
Directions for use:
Add 5g to 5 liters of drinking water for 3-5 days.

Source link : vw.aviomed.co.za/index.php/2013-09-03-09-33-47

As you have to give it to just one pigeon, add just 0.5 g to 500 ml of water and make him drink from the same for 5 days for treatment. It may vary pigeon to pigeon how much they get in but still it will treat canker as it is meant to be given like this, if he doesn't drink, you should dip his beak in medicated water 4-5 times a day and let him sip. He will get the requires dosage in this way as usually they drink this much a day, some may a little less or more. 

In the mean time you can order metronidazole tablet and you may treat him with that if you don't see much improvement but only after this 5 days course is complete.
I really hope your bird will make it.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you kiddy for your measurements. They are right. I am mixing to a gallon of water one teaspoon full of the canker medicine. I just posted a long post and lost it and this is about the 5th time this has happened to me on this site. I guess when I post a long post I have to save it or something. What it does is to say that I have not checked in and ask for my password again but the point is I was checked in on all of these occasions. So I will begin again with this posting. The pigeon is stable but with no real change not for the good or bad. Today by days end I have crop fed it and supplemented with small round seed like peas, corn and wheat that I have confidence in giving to the pigeon by mouth one at a time. I give it water about 4 or five times a day and each session it drinks about 2 or 3 droppers. I have given it 13cc's of Baytril suspension that I got from the vet and this will be given twice a day for 7 to 10 days. The dose is smaller because the pigeon weighs about 260 or 270 grams and is underweight for its age. I also have been supplementing some of the water sessions with the Canker medicine and I am just ball parking this and this is something I hate to do. How much would a pigeon in a loft of pigeons drink per day of this medicine? So I am dividing the different doses up during the day before it eats to avoid losing the food by the bird bringing it up. I have cropped fed the pigeon as well as given it some small seed that I
have confidence in giving one at a time so as not to aspirate the birdie. The pigeon is resting comfortable and is the same but its poopings are better looking. It's very weak and cannot walk. I have a question? When one gives a pigeon canker medicine do they ever expell out something that looks like a hard mucous ball white about 1/2 size--looks like "brain material"...terrible..I wll bring this speciment to the vet for determination on what it might be..Thank you everyone for your good wishes and concerns and I will keep you all updated on this prize package...Pigeon is still alive...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Expelling mucous could also be caused by the canker.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Pigeon will be alive I really hope and pray. 
I think you should give medicated water only because if it is in loft for flock, it is just one water all the time i. e medicated water no matter how much they take in, it will be just medicated water. They will get the required dose. 
May be they can vomit out the growth formed by canker, when medicine works on canker the growth goes off.

I don't know if tea spoon measurements vary from spoon to spoon and depends upon the substance as well some things are heavy and some are light in weight. It should be just 1 gm per litre or . 5 gm for 500ml because it is just for one bird.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Have you ever had the actual experience of this happening with your pigeons after you dosed them for canker? Either vomiting or pooping? Pigeon is still kicking and remaining steady and I just gave it its last meal for today and in a hour I will dose it for canker. then at about 10pm I will give it its second dose of Baytril for this day. I gave it today about three droppers with the canker medicine in them. Pigeon holding its own but no improvement. Tomorrow is another day to see how it is doing. Thanks.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

No, I haven't treated any pigeon for canker yet. But I have seen posters here telling their pigeon vomited out some contents but since no test results, we can't be sure of what it was. May be mucous or may be something related to canker growth. Nothing sure. 

And yes forgot to mention, when you type some long post, before submitting just select all and copy so if it is lost due to any reasons you can paste it back.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

WATER querry, here is what I know. A racer can drink up to 45ml of water a day, at 400 to 450 grams of weight, so a feral I would say half that is fine, @ the 2 to 300ml weight, so 20 ml or 10 ml twice a day should be enough to sustain a sick bird. If doing by syringe, be careful not to aspirate.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

c.hert said:


> If this pigeon can make it through this night and seem improved tomorrow I will feel more relieved. My camera has flaked out and I cannot give you people any pictures at this moment. Having sick pigeons to care for is very stressful for me especially since I depend on the experts for advice. It is stressful for all of us caretakers as well as pigeon racing people. Some people just have a knack for this type of caring but I on the other hand start to get upset the minute I decide on what exactly I am to do to get the pigeon well. I have gave a helping hand to many pigeons and it ended well but on the other hand I have my stories that did not go too well. One needs a lot of confidence on the caring with a no emotion involved attitude and for me that is very very hard to do. Even when I crop fed this pigeon my legs were shaking thinking am I doing this right and am I going to kill this pigeon. I just knew that I had to get some soft food with nutrition down this pigeon.s crop. It went well but then I switched to small seeds because I am more confident with giving that food and the pigeon ate them okay. I am talking about seeds like round wheat pieces, peas and corn to where the pigeon would not aspirate on them. This takes a lot out of me. I know that I have to do these things in order to give this young birdie a chance. When I give it water every two hours I wet the outside of the beak with the dropper and the pigeon swallows it on it own but this takes a lot of time but I am confident with this method. It's a matter of confidence and experience with handling this type of illness. I can do the basics--starvation, broken wings and legs, splay feet, PMV both bacteria and virus by supportive methods. I can feed babies but when its complicated with the diagnosis I get jittery. I depend on my Avian Vet for diagnosis and testing and his support helps me out with treatment that I give. With my constitution the way I am built I should never got involved with pigeon care but I love them so much. Theory is one thing but the practice is an entirely different ball game. I could never have been a vet seeing what they do and what they are capable of doing to help animals. They have strong constitutions if you know what I mean. People do not give credit to the caretakers of pigeons or do they give credit to the racers for a pigeon keepers work is never done and always there everyday for a long long time. The work is hard as you know and its constant as you know. I must be crazy to be in this type of hobby or care. But the point is when I look into a pigeons eyes I see the work of God. So I am stuck with this burden and it takes "years" to maintain a healthy loft as well as money that is needed. Thanks for the postings good people. Thanks.



Im so glad u posted the meds of your intention, yes alot of people even in human medicine dont realize they may be doubling up becuse they read BRAND name and not the active ingredient, thus overdosing themselves and their critters. So am glad u asked, I had not heardo f the avizole but know that metro and avi both have zole in the name which tells me they are the same drug or family which very well may have killed the bird in his weakened state. Drugs DO have an overdose safety margin and tolerance but not some are more toxic than others. So happy to help and I really hope this guy makes it. Im like you, wished I was a vet or doc but could not live with myself had I been responsible for their death. Bad enough we suffer when they die, but worse to think I caused it, so it is hard either way, but we do our best. Thanks for all you are doing. A lot of us feel and do the same and sacrifice for the greater good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Both canker and Metro can cause vomiting. A couple of drops of Pepto 30 min before eating and medicating should help with vomiting. Give metro after feeding.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I just spent about 15 or 20 minutes posting to you wonderful people and believe me it was a book with lots of information on your postings. The bottom line is that according to the measurements I have to give the medicine in every water dropper that I give the pigeon. I tried to paste and copy in order to save it but it keeps telling me that I am not checked in and I am so it must be some kind of technical issue maybe my computer or something. Also when I post it seems to change and say no new postings and shoves me to the other pages instead of up on top for a new posting. At this point I will message each of you and asked for your e-mail address so that I can share my concerns involving this pigeon who is stable at the moment and sitting on its pillow. Thank you for the knowledge that you all have shared as I have tried to share my experience with this particular pigeon. I love everyone of you...Thank you


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes may be some technical issue then. You can copy and paste on some notepad then and try going through "quick links" tab and then "today's post". 
May be you are doing the very same way, but this is what I do. 
Also when it asks for username and password, there is an option to save password or something like "keep me logged in". Click on that before you submit username and password and when you leave the site, don't log out. Just close the page by clicking on crossed button at right top most corner or by pressing "alt+f4 keys" as a short cut to that. 
I had faced this problem for many days when I didn't check on keep me logged in or some option like that at the time of log in , there was an option there I remember and by not clicking on that I lost my page many times when I was new to this site but then figured out to click on that after entering username and password and it doesn't log off until you click on log out, which I never do. 

May be you have already been doing everything and still facing the problem then it needs to be checked with your pc settings but I don't think this is a problem of pc, it is just site related what I figure out.

By the way thanks for sharing mail ID, I will forward for this bird to be recovered.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, bless you for trying to save the poor sick pigeon. I will keep you both in my thoughts and hope for the best. You are a special wonderful person for trying so hard to help this bird.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Maybe that's the problem and I will try what you say Kiddy. It's very hard to get use to a new type of website with any forum. Thanks for the information and I like that quick links and will use it instead of crawling all around. lol Thanks. I will keep you informed about the story of this birdie.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Heck I am going to log out and try that about the logging in and not logging out only by the Alt f4 keys...Here I go out and in again..How neat..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh.. Did you click on the keep me logged in option?
Can you email me print screen image of what you are getting on login screen? This is something peculiar


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yes Kiddy I went through all of those things and everything is fine now. I used to Altf4 and got out but the only thing is it does not take your name off the bottom of the screen and I just wonder if our little light is still on--lol... But that is a real big help--thank you


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The pigeon is still alive in the same condition and I will do exactly what I did yesterday in order to try to keep him alive until Monday. I will not put him on the full dose of the canker medicine and let the vet do all of that as well as hydrate him and tube feed him much better than me . He can give a good diagnosis and I can bring that sample of specimen in even if it is dried out. Heck this birdie could have worms as well as canker so I will pat the birdie on the head and wish it luck in someone else's more qualified hands then mine. I will drive him over Monday morning and e-mail my vet to let him know that I will be doing this,,,,Now if I can only keep this pigeon alive---one more day. Need to feed and water it now and give it its Baytril


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh lol, I thought that didn't work.
Don't worry about the little light, it gets off automatically after some time and in the mean time when it is on, we will feel good to see you online  

Glad to know the bird is alive and I really hope and pray, he will be alive


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope the bird makes it. Thank you again for your efforts in trying to help him.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Because this pigeon panics really bad when I take him out of the cage I have not really had a chance to further investigate his whole body area. Today I took a shot of bourbon and crop fed him only managing to get in about 2 ml for it is hard to judge with the long tube that I am using and its a thicker tube as well so I need to be real careful here because of my lack of experience in this area. I did also feed him some rounds seeds at different times during the day. He is really pooping now and if you ever saw the droppings of a female pigeon sitting on the nest and dumping this is what it looks like. Mushy green and white and lots of it. I had to clean him off and I did jumping around on this---bringing the warm water bowl to his cage and washing him inside the cage because of his panic tendencies and open breathing when it starts. His vent is now nice and clean and after that with one hand holding him and the other hand drying the cage and putting clean nesting material down this has been a trip. To be continued on next posting...


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well anyway he or she seems to have a little more of a spark of life and seems to be improving a little more and I just know the baytril did this as well as the slight doses of canker medicine for now. He is beginning to really empty out now and this is good. He is weak can hardly walk but alive and taking water well by me putting it on the outside of his beak. He is getting used to me and feels secure in his cage. For the first time he actually drank water out of the deeper part of a silver spoon. I am not getting my hopes up but this is a good sign for he showed no interest before in food or water, He is resting peacefully on his clean pillow and clean pillow case. Just maybe he will make it until tomorrow so that I can get a proper diagnosis. Posted this in two posts because I did not want to lose it and be able to share this with you all.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear he seems to be improving!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Can you not now offer him a bowl of water instead of a spoon? They need deep dish of water to be able to dip beak in and suck up like a straw. If he is showing signs, I would also put seed down and water and see if he scatters any out of seed bowl.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

He is afraid of the big bowl and if I try to dip his beak into it --not at the right angle for him and with the silver spoon he sucks it right up from the deep end. If something is working well for a person why try to switch the activity to another way. Maybe the silver spoon will work well for you some day better than a bowl. He has seed and water in the cage scattered all over but he can hardly walk to get it. He is doing fine...Thanks


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Well thats great then, looks like you dont need further info. Glad it is working out just fine.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

c.hert said:


> Well anyway he or she seems to have a little more of a spark of life and seems to be improving a little more and I just know the baytril did this as well as the slight doses of canker medicine for now. He is beginning to really empty out now and this is good. He is weak can hardly walk but alive and taking water well by me putting it on the outside of his beak. He is getting used to me and feels secure in his cage. For the first time he actually drank water out of the deeper part of a silver spoon. I am not getting my hopes up but this is a good sign for he showed no interest before in food or water, He is resting peacefully on his clean pillow and clean pillow case. Just maybe he will make it until tomorrow so that I can get a proper diagnosis. Posted this in two posts because I did not want to lose it and be able to share this with you all.


I am very hopeful about this bird so he has to make it till tomorrow and even for long after that


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well CBL we won't have to worry about what kind of water dish to use because I do believe the birdie is drinking on its own..."Yes". This morning I found it in front of the water dish and looking out the cage door as to say" "What.s this why can.t I get out of this cage".. It up on its hocks and walking stronger and its eyes look brighter..Doing much better at least for this morning. First time it has moved from its pillow and standed upright on its own.."Yes"...Not perfect health but good enough for now...Thanks everyone and its been a long four of five days but I can see light under the tunnel at this moment. I will call the vets office in a few minutes and see "what's up" on that end for I emailed him but received no answer so far. CBL I will always need help and it is not only the help but the friendship that people like you give to people who have something in common with each other. Thank you so so much--everybody---and I will keep you all updated. This day is a brighter one..Thanks..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks C. hert for a very good update . I am very happy that the bird is doing fine . And yes apart from many behavioral differences we all have one thing in common, our love for animals and that keep us all close together even if we disagree with each other some time because everyone is different but still this love for animals doesn't let us dislike anyone. 
Hope to hear soon that you have successfully released the bird. 
Thanks for your care and concern about all the birdies


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKhN1t_7PEY


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad to hear that he's doing better.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The doctor asked me where in the yard did I find this pigeon and is it a area that I go to every day. I said I found it in the middle of my yard where I put the trash into my container and go there maybe twice a week to put the big trash bag in for them to pick it up once a week in the alley. Its the very back part of the yard. He believes the bird hit something really hard and had a concussion to the top of part of his brain. He put water on the top of the head and it was a solid blue surface that bled inside and I was shocked. I knew the head felt different more fatter kind of but figured it was normal and also I can hardly see only using one eye that's good right now. He also showed me its neck area because I kept saying his neck feels funny like canker lumps or something well he also show me that saying something got a hold of this bird and bit right through this part of the neck or started biting and showed me a large red area with no blood but a nasty gash that went right to the right eye on the side to where the lid was and was stretching that area making that eye look half shut. I told him I saw the eye and just figured it was a eye infection and I put erythromycin Ophthalmic ointment on it. Or I thought maybe because the bird was dehydrated and had worms. Gosh I just knew the neck was funny shaped and did not realize something had a hold of it. That area under the feathers was a grey blue black. Something got a hold of the bird but the bird got away and flew and hit something real hard and fell to the ground to where it laid for days until I took out the trash. It might have even been unconscious for a long time. I asked him about all the white in the throat to where he gulps when I try to feed him that looks like harden canker making it very difficult to get my too thick crop rubber tube through. He said that was dried out mucus because the pigeon must have laid there for a few days with no food or water. That white piece of material that I found was a large plug of mucous that dried out. He said that the pigeon was hours from death and praise me for the wonderful job with this bird that I did saying that "I literally saved its life whether I could see or not... we laughed. It has no canker or worms and he will throw a xray on it just to make sure nothing else is wrong with it. I asked him about the panic attacks with the open breathing and he said "Well if something got ahold of you you would have panic attacks too"..We laughed again. The pigeon is at the hospital and will remain there under more competent care than mine because of my lack of sight. I go to the cataract doctor on Sept 17th. The pigeon at this moment cannot open its mouth to get seed but it can suck water and we will wait to see if some of the brain swelling goes down and see what we are up against. For the medical records I call this pigeon---Mr. Ugly because of its messed up and filthy feather condition---It is one ugly bird.. Its not out of the woods yet but it is in the best hands possible in order to start a road to recovery. This pigeon if it gets well I will keep as a loft pigeon. If it cannot open its mouth to eat in time I will send it to another place that is peaceful and nice..Just a update..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Sounds as though the poor thing went through a lot. Thanks for helping him. Hope he does well there.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree...thank you and bless you for saving Mr. Ugly who I hope in time will heal and become Mr. Handsome. Hope your eye improves too. Have a friend at work who just had cataract surgery and was back at work the next day. I couldn't even tell she had the surgery! She said it was easy. Hope so because I will have to deal with my cataracts too at some point. Bless you!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Fingers crossed that you dont have to kill him. If head injury did vet say he would give it an injection of dex for the swelling? If he feeds it and allows it to heal, it should do fine, it needs time.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

No I usually find out about what he did when he calls to update me and I will share this with you..It's not a matter of killing him and this is not on the plate only if he cannot use his mouth to pick up seed and eat. He will have plenty of time to recover so I do not think that will happen or be concerned about in the near future---not to worry sensitive one---not to worry... I was just addressing the "If" and he does seem to use it to try to get some seed at times just wanted you all to know..Thanks everyone...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL. Am glad that euthanasia is not being considered right now. Sounds like the birdie just needs time to recover and lots of TLC.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

With this expert care I believe he will be fine and at least it will have a full belly with wonderful nutrition by way of the vet crop feeding enough into him as well as other medications---everyone is doing the best that they can to help it..There has been no update so far and this is good for he is still alive..Thanks everyone for the well wishes


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That "if" gave me a brain jerk for a moment and I forgot everything what was written above, my God I had to read again, this is happening in stressful conditions, I have done it twice a day. Pls think about weak hearted people c. Hert before writing about such peaceful places.  
You may send others too there, like me. Lol


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Ha Ha Ha...He is doing just fine and is at the vets office and will be there until about Thursday or Friday. I have not had an update just yet and this is good for if he would have died they would have called me immediately. We are all having a brain freeze but I tell you---you really helped me figure out this web site on how to post so that I do not lose it so your okay---stressed---but okay. Cross your little fingers for the birdie. Thanks and I will update when I get the latest news...Read post #44...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That 44 was a life threatening number for me. Don't ask me to read again. Lol. 
Well thanks for the update. Hope he gets well soon.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Why is that so?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Because of its last line, my all previous posts are related to that


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Are you trying to share with me that you only read the last line of post 44. Gosh girl you need to take it slow and easy--lol lol Would you prefer if I could learn Hindi would that make it easier for your mind. lol Enjoy your day forum friend..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes I read everything but it all vanished, the last line was so impressive. Lol
Yeah of course try for explaining in Hindi, I will try to understand then from some new angle 

Also it is 1 am, not a day forum friend 
You have a nice day ahead....


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey AndreisS, I just saw your post for the first time #13 and did not know about these "high precision scales"--thank you for that information. I am going to check into them when times allows--thank you for that information..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am crossing my fingers for the birdie to recover this week.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The vet just called me and Mr. Ugly is a Mrs. Ugly and she has a egg in her uterus that they are watching among her other problems. They are crop feeding "her" and giving her good calcium and watching this situation. Her neck and eye are improving and nothing else in the xray---no worms or canker---but I got the weight wrong she is only 140 grams but gaining a bit of weight and walking better so we will see how Mrs Ugly does. She is in the best hands possible..This is too early to tell if she is egg bound but they are keeping an eye on this situation and she has gain some weight as well. She is getting stronger each day...This is exactly what I need in my life another "high maintenance" creature who is turning into a "Drama Queen"--plenty of drama here. If she survives her new name will be Mrs. Drama Queen. Everything good...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You are too much! LOL.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad Mrs Ugly or Mrs Drama Queen is getting bette. Thank you very much for helping her! Our beloved Phoebe came with a lot of problems but proved to be the most loving and lovable bird ever. So I bet Drama Queen will also turn out to be a really great bird. They know when they are loved.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol I just realized that Drama Queen can be shortened to DQ lol, now I want ice cream. I really hope she makes it and good news on the other things she doesnt have. Hopefully they will deal with that egg.....I had a very rare budgie name Ice Queen, because of her beautiful morph. Shortened to IQ and then QQ. She was one in a million. I really hope your DQ makes it  Keep us posted. And as I ALWAYS say, never say never, u just NEVER know lol


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Lol. c. hert, great name. Poor birdie doesn't know even how many beautiful names are waiting in her honor. 
Hope she recovers soon


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

An update. Pigeon is stable and doing well and they are continuing to crop feed in order to boost her nutrition especially with calcium because of the egg in the uterus. Her neck,head and eye are healing nicely and she is eating somewhat on her own at least she is attempting to although she cannot hold seed in her beak too well but this is improving. She is drinking water well. We are just on watch detail here with nutrition given to her. The vet mentioned that "later" when she is well he might have to do surgery on the neck and head area around the wounds because it is stretching her one eye as it gets healing better. I do not know what this is about but he said not to worry about it for this is later and he will have to use anesthesia and she is too fragile right now. But she seems to be doing well and will stay at the vet hospital over the weekend for they are keeping a watch on that egg and also wanting a stronger condition with her physical health. She is walking strong and flapping her wings at them now...Just an update...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Because of complications in surgeries, I don't like surgeries until extremely necessary 
Hope she keeps doing well. Thanks for the update.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad she is doing better. Agree with kiddy, having had to get three surgeries for Phoebe.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

.hert c.hert is invisible
Matriarch/Patriarch
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,889
I did update yesterday but for some reason it did not take but I thought I checked it and saw it after Cwebster posted but it's not here now. Well this update is for today..Aug 15th Sat. They called me to say that they are keeping Mrs Ugly over the week end. She is putting on a lot of weight and eating much better on her own---not perfect---- for she has trouble holding the seed in her mouth at this time but he thinks this will improve. They are crop feeding her but she is drinking on her own and this is good. A few days ago with the other update I mentioned that "Later" when she is strong that he might have to do surgery around her injuries in order to stop the "tighten skin" from stretching her eye area. Her eye is fine and everything is healing. No worms and no canker. They are keeping an eye on the egg in her uterus and she is not "egg bound" at this junction but it is not moving. So she will stay for the weekend at the hospital. So sorry you did not see the update and I do not know what happened...
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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Update for today in the above postings.. I see your posting cwebster on the other thread, Maybe she will be Mrs Cutie but I doubt that at this time. Her new name might be Mrs Drama Queen if she pulls through this..She doing fine for now..Thank you..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This is turning out to be a very strange case of illness. The egg is still in her uterus but it is not moving at all and she is not in egg bound danger at this time---if they can only get it to move further down her oviduct. Health wise she is walking and gaining weight and her coordination is real good not losing her balance or any of that and alert as well with both eyes in good condition and seeing.The vet did some blood testing and toxicity testing and everything came back real good--no organ dis function and her liver and kidney are working well. She is not picking up seed well but trying and drinks real good.
She will stay another week at my request because of the tube feeding something I have trouble doing because of my cataracts which are getting real bad at this time. Just an update here..She is doing well and getting stronger and slapping at them..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I thought this was interesting in regard to the posting above and sent a copy to my avian vet but I already know that he knows about it already. 

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/eggrelatedproblems.htm

I thought that I would review things here and write it so you all can see the problem.
From the left ovary extends the oviduct and it is a tube that is long and large. It's about three in four inches in length but when functioning it can extend 20 inches more. It's top end has a funnel like structure that is called the Infundibulum and its about one fourth of the length of the oviduct. The ripe ovum is grabbed by this as the ovum breaks from the ovary and passes into a section of the oviduct which secretes the albumen. This section of the oviduct is more than 1/2 of its entire length. Next two membranes are laid around the ovum-----the lower portion is the shell gland or ( uterus). The egg shell is formed here. It's about three inches long and it is not defined by any external constriction (whatever this means) ?? From here it passes into the cloaca. It is then laid. I got this information from The pigeon by Wendell Levi 1965. I think it still holds strong today even with the age of the book. He was a wonderful pigeon expert for his time .. So the uterus area is the shell gland area and this ovum or egg is stuck in this area. Maybe the pigeon has a shell gland disease or something and I don't know at this point but we are doing all that we can to get that to move out of the pigeon. She is not egg bound at this point. I just thought that I would write this as I reviewed this situation. The pigeon is doing well so far and in excellent hands

If you go back through the posting at one time she expelled a piece of brain like material that was a half of a inch or more in size and I just wonder if this was the first egg that passed with no shell. Just wondering here but we thought it was mucus that dried up and came out of the pigeons mouth. By the time I brought it for the vet to see it was all dried up and very tiny. (four or five days later). I wished I would have kept it in better condition for him to see. I think that was her first egg that she passed with no shell casing..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear your girl is continuing to improve. Very weird, the egg staying there. Hopefully she will lay it eventually. Bless you for getting vet care and rescuing her!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks and we will just take this day by day and I will keep you all updated..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

The egg not moving worries me c.hert, rest the progresses are good. Hope she overcomes egg problem as well.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks Kiddy and it worries me too. But so far so good and no update today maybe tomorrow.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I just came back from visiting "Mrs Ugly" and she is turning into a pretty birdie. She has put on a lot of weight and she now weighs 190 grams. She stilll has that ovum not moving but she is much much stronger and they have her in a real nice glass cage with some moist heat flowing down. She is not eating seed well for it goes in her mouth and she just lets it drop out. But I grinded up some pigeon mix and had it in a jar for her with a note saying what it was and please ask permission from the doctor in order to feed this to her with the date. The help was real nice and energetic young people who are getting very attached to her. She is in good hands and looks wonderful and that ovum really worries me for it is not moving as of this date. Just an update. I just knew this pigeon was going to be "A Drama Queen" and I sure hope that ovum starts to move out...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad she has gained weight. They must be taking good care of her. Good idea to bring in the ground mix. Hope it helps. That egg would worry me too. I had a hen that held an egg for a long time when she broke a wing. They had found it when she was X-rayed. I brought her home though so she was here. I was a wreck when she didn't lay the egg. Had her on a heating pad with moist heat by putting a warm washcloth under her, on the heating pad, put her in a steamy room, did everything. She did eventually lay the egg, but it took several days. Hope yours will be okay as well.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear Mrs Ugly is turning into Mrs Beautiful! Has the vet suggested anything to make the egg move out? With mammals there is oxytocin which I used with guinea pigs to induce labor. I know birds have different plumbing. Hope the egg comes out soon. Thank you for taking such good care of her. I know how pricey vet bills are.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

He is off on Fridays and have not had a chance to speak with him but I have a feeling I will be filled in on Monday about what his plan is if any.?. So we will see how this goes down. Yea vets are expensive but we will manage...This is a learning experience as well. Have to make it good for something..lol Thanks..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nice update on her gaining weight. Happy to hear this. 
Hope the egg part too turns into something positive soon as Jay mentioned about a hen with the same problem, glad to know she passed the egg and hope Mrs. Pretty Birdy passes it too


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

A update Mrs Drama Queen is coming home tomorrow. She had picked up a lot of weight and has been diagnosed with no canker or worms and her coordination is fine as well as her eye. There are some medicines that help to move an egg down her tract but with this a lot of birds die because of it increasing the muscles contractions just too much. So he opted out of these types of medicines. Someone mentioned it on one of the postings so I just thought I would find an answer to that suggestion. The ovum is still in place and not moving. Our next steps at home will be to give her gentle exercise at home and basically try to rehabilitate her to eat a pigeon mix to get her beak moving and used to eating food. I will pick her up tomorrow and keep a careful eye on her. If she should fail and begin to lose a lot of weight again she will go back to them for a consideration of what the next step should be. Now it is my turn to keep her progress going and he told me I could bring her back to him at any time I see the situation going down hill for her. So she will be home tomorrow and I will see what I can do for this strange case of health. One thing now I know what it is not and will work with what I know is---so her name now is Mrs. Drama Queen...Just a update...I will take some pictures of her if my camera holds strong...


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Wishing you and Mrs. Drama Queen the very best C.Hert! Sounds like you have given a hundred and one percent. Take pride in that even if things dont work out.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks beatlemike and we will just take it day by day..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah completely agree with Beatlemike you are giving your best. 
Just worried about the egg and meds


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Good news


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

To tell you the truth I will be glad to have her home--now that I know she is a she. lol Thanks.. I will keep updating about her condition either good or bad...Thanks ago for the support.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please do keep posted about Mrs Drama Queen. Thank you for all the love you have given her!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well I have my pigeon home and this is a update from the vets notes.
Head Trauma, concussion. Won't eat or drink on own. No medications to go home. Mrs. Ugly was treated with antibiotics, pain medication, calcium supplement and tube feedings. Her blood test was normal and there is an egg in the abdomen but not causing any pain at this time. Normal exercise at her own pace and extra heat. Mrs. Ugly's prognosis is poor due to her head trauma and not willing to eat or drink on her own. Please hand feed and give water. He gave me Silvadene for the head injury. If she gets worse bring her back in for more consideration. No further exam needed unless you have concerns. So she is home and this is today's update.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)




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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)




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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird. Hope now that she is home she will start to improve. Patience is important. Thank you for helping her!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad that you got her home but worried about her egg and unwillingness to eat 
You have to take good care of her c. hert and doubtlessly you will do good. Pls keep us updated. Hope she starts eating and drinking soon.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Pigeon is stable and I am feeding it ---no change as of today. It is glad to be home in the bird room I can tell. It seems happier. Everything the same.. I do believe the pooping is better and more of it...Doing okay..Not attempting to eat on its own just yet..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am hoping she will relax and keep improving now she is home.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This Mrs. Drama Queen pigeon has a long rehabilitation process in store for her at least until she reaches a plateau and then I will make judgments about. She is one very very sick birdie. She has a concussion, plus nerve damage,plus swallowing problems and balance problems. She also has Endocrine problems especially the Thyroid and balance issues as well as eye sight issues. After all of this she has a egg in her that will not move out. The things that I am working on right now is nutrition and muscular strength by way of gentle exercise. I have two hot water bottles under her and I change them every three hours trying to move that egg out of her. Her dropping seem adequate and believe it or not has improved. She likes the moist heat and she likes her cage area which she is not strong enough to veer out of and I just leave the door open for her. Today she took five steps and made it without falling and this is good for the first day she could not take a step. So some improvement. I have her on "pellet food as well as assorted round seeds like peas and wheat and corn with smooth surfaces because of her esophagus problems. I will give her time to improve and she is in no pain and seems to enjoy the varied actions that I take. She eats three times a day plus goes outside twice, plus exercise and seeing other pigeons as well as water throughout the day. I am giving her a "fair chance" to survive but at this point I don't know how far she will progress. She is peaceful and has no anxiety and she likes my voice. She knows the schedule and feels secure.
But the bottom line here is she could drop dead at any given moment. We are doing the best that we can. Just an update

I am going to bring forward two pictures. The first one was yesterday and she was more "puffed up" and cold feeling. That crock pot is putting moist heat to her as well as the hot water bottles.
The second picture I just took and you see she is less puffed up and more better looking. So it is a slight improvement, not much but going in the right direction.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Today..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How is he/she doing now?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

I know Drama Queen has a ways to go but am so glad to hear she is doing a little better. Hope she will continue her progress. Pigeons are tough. She is so lucky to have such a great caretaker! Have been reading about egg binding. Is surgical removal of the retained egg an option if she does not lay it?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

She is just holding steady and improving inch by inch but still in a very fragile way because of her swallowing condition. She is hard to feed because of this problem but we take it piece by piece here. She does not pick up seed nor does she show any interest with seed and I just don't know at this point. This is not a egg binding situation cwebster because the egg is in the uterus and cannot be manipulated out. It's stuck in the shell making area and won't budge. Now maybe if it would move down the oviduct she could get into a situation of egg binding and then the vet could handle it to get it out but its too early in the oviduct. One thing good it is in the oviduct and not the stomach because that would be sure death most of the time. Its just a kind of a shell less egg sort of like a tumor that won't move down the oviduct. She is holding steady Jay 3.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Post 88 explains the situation right now. She has had a brain concussion and this is the danger at this time. She might have been laying in my yard sideways for days and when I saw her I thought she was dead for she is a feral pigeon. She had been at the vets for the past few weeks and post 88 gets you up to date. Her old name was Mrs. Ugly and I did this for the vet records so that I would remember who she was but now home her name is Mrs. DramaQueen. Don't know if she can be rehabilitated for she has had nervous tissue blockage because of inner bleeding on the brain. This is the real problem right now Jay3 and Cwebster and it is this immediate problem that could kill her so this is a learning experience and I am doing the best that I can in order to give her a fair chance. She has symptoms of wanting to throw up or kind of like giving pigeon milk to a baby pigeon without the milk and her neck gets real crooked and funny looking. She has a lot of problems and I really give her just like the vet did a poor prognosis, but we are trying and she is improving "inch by inch"---not a lot but going in the right direction. Just a recap here.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

c.hert said:


> This Mrs. Drama Queen pigeon has a long rehabilitation process in store for her at least until she reaches a plateau and then I will make judgments about. She is one very very sick birdie. She has a concussion, plus nerve damage,plus swallowing problems and balance problems. She also has Endocrine problems especially the Thyroid and balance issues as well as eye sight issues. After all of this she has a egg in her that will not move out. The things that I am working on right now is nutrition and muscular strength by way of gentle exercise. I have two hot water bottles under her and I change them every three hours trying to move that egg out of her. Her dropping seem adequate and believe it or not has improved. She likes the moist heat and she likes her cage area which she is not strong enough to veer out of and I just leave the door open for her. Today she took five steps and made it without falling and this is good for the first day she could not take a step. So some improvement. I have her on "pellet food as well as assorted round seeds like peas and wheat and corn with smooth surfaces because of her esophagus problems. I will give her time to improve and she is in no pain and seems to enjoy the varied actions that I take. She eats three times a day plus goes outside twice, plus exercise and seeing other pigeons as well as water throughout the day. I am giving her a "fair chance" to survive but at this point I don't know how far she will progress. She is peaceful and has no anxiety and she likes my voice. She knows the schedule and feels secure.
> But the bottom line here is she could drop dead at any given moment. We are doing the best that we can. Just an update
> 
> I am going to bring forward two pictures. The first one was yesterday and she was more "puffed up" and cold feeling. That crock pot is putting moist heat to her as well as the hot water bottles.
> The second picture I just took and you see she is less puffed up and more better looking. So it is a slight improvement, not much but going in the right direction.


Hi c. hert, when I go through your posts, it feels like someone is taking care of their sick kid. It feels more than amazing or probably should find a better word for this, you know I am not a native English speaker else may be I would have found something in words what I feel but sometimes you can't express your feelings. I don't see people taking such awesome care of feral pigeons and she is so lucky that probably nowhere on this earth she could have found a better place and better person to care like this. I have that heart I believe but don't have resources, fortunately you have both a caring heart and you can work out as per your wish. So you are doing great. No matter if she makes it not (but I really hope she should) Whatever the result is your efforts are highly commendable and I truly appreciate and admire and motivate myself seeing you. Thanks for being such a nice human being for those needy birds. Really hope and pray she survives and all of us could feel your happiness. 
Keep us updated and keep motivating others. 
Thank you


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you for doing the best you can to give her a fair chance.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, she is very lucky to have you. You care so much and try so hard.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sometimes it does not work out. The first picture here is the head injury the best picture that I can get of it. You notice around her neck it was almost sliced off but when I found her there was no bleeding in that area.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This second picture denotes something very wrong with her upper chest it is just too fat and putting on an fat appearence plus she has I am sure a dorsal and ventral displacement of the trachea or maybe esophagus----don't really know just guessing here by the funny feel of it but she has endocrine problems like the "fat" in that area and regurgitation with nothing coming up . This could be from the concussion but don't know. Her thyroid if that is it in the middle of her chest a boney like structure feels different.. If its the thyroid and I will bring it up to the vet when he gets back from his convention next week if she is still with us. Her balance is off as well and she is not seeing quite right but I will give her time. Picture coming.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This last picture is of her sunning in the fly pen for about 20 minutes. I decided to take away the hot water bottles in her cage area because I figure that if that ovum is not moving out of her uterus by now something else needs to be done or found out about. I hope she continues to live but at anytime this birdie could go to heaven she is very fragile. There are three pictures for today--two above.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hmm.. She is actually very sick but she seems relieved in your care so giving her time is the best idea. 
Keep it up...


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks kiddy. This seems to be like a "sea sickness" and a loss of balance on Mrs. Drama Queens part. I read somewhere that for people they think it might involve the inner ear somehow when people get sick on boats because of balance issues. Maybe its her inner ear or something and just guessing about all of this as I get to know her. One positive note she actually pecked at a seed today and showed interest ---did not get it but it's a beginning and with all of this her beak seems to be getting longer and I hope not too long. It was a good day for her and she is sound asleep and peaceful. Thanks everyone for the encouragement and the nice notes. Just a update and I can't wait for the vet to get back in town so I can fill him in on her progress. Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She looks so cute and comfy in the chair. Probably felt good too.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

c.hert said:


> Thanks kiddy. This seems to be like a "sea sickness" and a loss of balance on Mrs. Drama Queens part. I read somewhere that for people they think it might involve the inner ear somehow when people get sick on boats because of balance issues. Maybe its her inner ear or something and just guessing about all of this as I get to know her. One positive note she actually pecked at a seed today and showed interest ---did not get it but it's a beginning and with all of this her beak seems to be getting longer and I hope not too long. It was a good day for her and she is sound asleep and peaceful. Thanks everyone for the encouragement and the nice notes. Just a update and I can't wait for the vet to get back in town so I can fill him in on her progress. Thanks.


Can't be sure, balance issue may be due to head injury or inner ear problem. Since she had a head injury so more likely could be brain related. 
Don't know pigeon's anatomy and physiology much but if talk about humans cerebellum (part of brain) is also involved in balancing as well as the inner ear. Pigeon brain is almost similar, tho I don't know about its function better until I study. 
Anyways trying to pick up seed is a very good improvement for the bird who is not willing to intake anything for long. So more hopes in her now.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Mrs Drama Queen gaining weight and her poops looks good. She had balance issues as well as no eating or drinking on her own and this will be checked out on what is causing this but she definitely has brain injury but for now will give her enough of time to adjust and improve. She is peaceful and looks forward to seeing me especially at feeding time. The ovum is still in her but does not seem to be bothering her. This is just an update and this thread will end and I will start a new one. She is maintaining.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Bless you for giving mrs drama queen time to heal!


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