# 2 Babies different in size. Is it aproblem???



## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I have two 8 days old babies of indian pigeon. But they are different in size. One of them is about 2 inch & other is about 5 inch. Is this a problem? I found that at afternoon hen did not feed the tiny one. So i feed it by hand once. Both parents stay away from home for long time. Is it ok for babies? What can i do now? Feed them by hand???


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## birds+me=happy (May 21, 2009)

Nope, usually they are different sizes. I thought it was wierd how different the sizes were when I first had a clutch of babies. If there Is a prob., then the little one is not getting enough food. But I doubt that is the case.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if the little ones crop is not full and the other babies is, you will need to feed it, the parents get off the nest and leave for periods of time about when they are 10 days old. I would keep a close eye on it as the bigger squab may be too much for the little one to compete with. if all goes well he should catch up soon. can you post a pic?


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I pick this in afternoon


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Yeasmin said:


> I pick this in afternoon


Sorry i can't upload the file.i will try letter.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I check the babies but sorry to say the little one have no food on it's crop. Again i use hand feed. How long i use hand feed? Can anyone tell me?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does the little one seem healthy in every other way? Sometimes illness will make one nestmate smaller than the other. It would be very helpful to see a picture of them. I would keep checking, and if the crop is empty, I would feed it. Maybe as long as it takes for him to catch up in size, as long as there are no health issues.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

*pics*

i pick this one yeasterday...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Yeasmin,

If this isn't just a matter of the smaller one being fed less then you need to have the parents checked for paratyphoid (salmonellosis). If they have it, then they and the babies need to be treated with enrofloxacin.

Terry


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

This often happens to me when one baby hatches a day or two before the other. It has a head start and the smaller one then struggles to compete for food. I solve it by removing the larger baby each time I feed the parents (several times a day), the smaller baby gets fed then I replace the larger one for his feed.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thank u frnds for ur help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, as Renee said, paratyphoid or even canker can cause one baby to be quite a bit larger than the other one. One baby can be affected and not the other. Just keep an eye on them to make sure that they are both healthy.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm using hand feeding to tiny baby though the hen totally ignore it.once i remove the healthy one but letter i saw that the crop is emty.why this problem occur? I cam remmember, 2 month ago same things happened.in my other pair one baby died and other remain healthy. Is it continue?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> I'm using hand feeding to tiny baby though the hen totally ignore it.once i remove the healthy one but letter i saw that the crop is emty.why this problem occur? I cam remmember, 2 month ago same things happened.in my other pair one baby died and other remain healthy. Is it continue?


The baby could be sick. Maybe your birds need to be treated with medicine.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> The baby could be sick. Maybe your birds need to be treated with medicine.


What should i feed them? Now i'm separating the big baby pigeon from the nest in every afternoon and return in the morning. If they need vaccine, what should i give them? I'm from bangladesh. So can't tell what type of med are available. Plz help...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How is the smaller baby doing now?


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

It is much big now.thank u 4 ur help.can u plz checkout my album & mention the breed of pij.i know the local name only.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How many birds do you have? When you buy vaccines, you have to buy enough for 50 or 100 injections. Here they often vaccinate for PMV, Paratyphoid, and Pox. The vaccines you give to prevent them getting sick in the first place. 
Maybe you meant medicine to give when they are sick and not vaccine?


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Yeasmin said:


> What should i feed them?


I think most members here use Kaytee Exact Baby Bird. In my country that isn't available, so I've used Avibaby. It is also possible to use baby chicken food mixed with warm water. Any place where they sell pet food or chicken food will be able to advise you.
Then as he gets older you can start giving him small seeds and fresh peas as well.




Yeasmin said:


> If they need vaccine, what should i give them? I'm from bangladesh. So can't tell what type of med are available. Plz help...


If it is Salmonellosis (= Paratyphoid), you will need an antibiotic that will kill Salmonella bacteria. If you say that to a pharmacist, and say it's for animal use, they will help you choose one from what is available, that's what I did.

I use *Amoxycilin* for babies. It can be sold under various names, like Clavamox or Sinulox. I use Sinulox, because the dosage is smaller (tablets of 50 mg). If the baby weighs 100g, one quarter of a tablet is enough for the complete treatment:
I break a tablet in four, then put one of the pieces in a small bowl, add 5 drops of water and make a paste. Then I add 4.5ml of water. The total now should be 5 ml of diluted antibiotic. Using a very small syringe (you can get one from a chemist's) I give the baby 0.5 ml of this twice a day.
The mixture will last for exactly 5 days, which is the length of the treatment. Please note that the mixture needs to be kept covered and in a cool place, otherwise the water will evaporate and the last dosages will be too strong, and not enough for the 5 days. (I keep it in a larger syringe (to avoid contact with air) in the fridge.
The medicine needs to be dropped in the second orifice in the baby's mouth, not the first, or the liquid will go into his lungs.

Also, Terry recommended *Enrofloxacin*. This is sold under the name Baytril. The recommended dosage for a 100g bird is between 1 and 2mg twice a day for a minimum of 7 days. The one I have comes in 'palatable' tablets, which I use for adult birds, because they don't hate the taste quite as much, lol!

I hope this answers your questions.

PS: After treatment with the antibiotic, the baby will need a probiotic to replace the 'good bacteria' in his gut. If you can't find anything else, a little live (with enzymes) yoghurt will help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Teresa said:


> I think most members here use Kaytee Exact Baby Bird. In my country that isn't available, so I've used Avibaby. It is also possible to use baby chicken food mixed with warm water. Any place where they sell pet food or chicken food will be able to advise you.
> Then as he gets older you can start giving him small seeds and fresh peas as well.
> 
> 
> ...


The babies are like a month old now. They don't need the formula.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> What should i feed them? Now i'm separating the big baby pigeon from the nest in every afternoon and return in the morning. If they need vaccine, what should i give them? I'm from bangladesh. So can't tell what type of med are available. Plz help...


What have you been feeding them? If they're a month old, they should be weaned to seed. What do you feed your other birds?


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

The babies for whom i make the post r lost now. They can't made coz preditor attack. After 30 days of haching 1st the little one and the big one became the food of giant crow. And now i've another pair with same problem. In this case, when they r 4days old hen didn't came from her afternoon visit. Cock along raising the babies. He's doing well as i informed from my brother. Now i'm far from home for my study. And he is taking care of the loft. Can u Plz checkout my album for my bird species? I don't know it very well. Thanks anyway


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

My brother loves pij too. And he's taking case of my pijs now. In bangladesh, bird loft house are not availabel. We generally use small boxes and leave them open in daytime. But i think it's a bad idea. In this way i've lost my 2 lovely young. One of them is grown on my hand. It really hurts. I'm now trying to built a large loft enough to stay 10 birds with place for small exercise.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Is there anyone who willingly help me to find out my pij breed from my album.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

they look like Pakistani Tipplers to me , just google them and you will see for yourself


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thank u lokotaloft. Now i can say i've roller and tippler.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai yeasmin, dont hand feed such small chicks as they are fed by crop milk by their parents at this age. chances are you may loose the chick if something goes wrong.

better try this method. just put one chick at a time until u feel it is atleast 3/4 th full and then replace it with the other.This will solve the problem if the parents are only feeding one chick which is aggressively asking for food. you can start hand / mouth feeding once the chick is 2 weeks old. but i have seen many instances where in foreign countries they use syringe to feed the small chicks.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

u can actually build a loft loft with say some 10 partitions or 12 partitions with doors which can be closed during night time and can lock for safety.
if u need any help in design i can help u out


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm not hand feeding now.i'm now switching the babies in feeding time that they can eat properly. Sad news. The actual babies are lost and a new set of babies are in same problem. They are now 11 and 9 days old. And the hen is missing. So only cock is feeding them. That's why i ask for hand feeding.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

as i told you u can hand feed if you are good at it
if not you may loose them. We actually mouth feed them here. but i feel 11 days is small atleast 15 days should be fine. we feed ragi by mouth


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thank u all for ur help. A last question, what should happened when the babies r grown young while cock along raising the babies? Will he met another hen or not? When i've to bring another hen?


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

A last question, what should happened when the babies r grown young while cock along raising the babies? Will he met another hen or not? When i've to bring another hen?


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

once the cock stops feeding the chicks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. I'd wait til he is finished raising them. You don't want to introduce another hen right now. That could make him abandon the babies.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Ok. But 'tuni' (name of smaller baby) r getting weak day by day. Is it can made?survive?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> Ok. But 'tuni' (name of smaller baby) r getting weak day by day. Is it can made?survive?


you can try to suppliment the small one by giving some feedings in between the parents feedings with hand rearing formula, not sure where you can get that in your location, but that is what I would do, if that works great, if he still is not getting enough then you will have to hand raise it.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks. Hand rearing formula is not available here. If i give tuni chicken or quail feed with warm water,what happend then?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> Thanks. Hand rearing formula is not available here. If i give tuni chicken or quail feed with warm water,what happend then?


some of these markets may have something, if not you wil have to use what you do have, I would think the quail or chicken would work in a pinch. http://www.bdbusiness.net/directory/animal~pet_shop.html


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thank u so much. As soon as possible i'll collect it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

over here, we would give them baby bird formula. Do they have any ground up food there for chickens? Or something like that, that could be grind to a powder, and mix with water, to make like a pudding? You could feed this to the babies with an eye dropper.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I'll tell my bro to do so. Hope it'll work. Yes, i've some quail feed. Is that ok?


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai, u can also give some soaked channa to the second baby upto half of its crop so that the feed given by its parent will be sufficient to make it full but always see to that u feed it after the parent if not it may not ask the parent for food and it will not get the little what he is getting now. good luck to TUNI


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

make sure the chick feed is not medicated, it can be used with the channa as it would add vitamins and carbs to the channa.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I've told my bro to feed tuni soaked corn and wheat. Hope it work well. Is there any way to stop this problem (size difference among babies)?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Depends on what is causing it. If they are sick, salmonella/paratyphoid can cause it. Usually they don't sit on the eggs until the second one is layed. But sometimes they will sit on the first egg, before the second is layed. If they do this, then the first egg is going to hatch Much sooner than the second. Hence, a bigger baby. By removing the first egg, and replacing it with a fake egg, until the second egg is hatched, then switching it back when she lays the second egg, they will start sitting on them both at the same time. This way, they'll hatch closer to each other, so there shouldn't be as much of a size difference. Have you noticed if they sit the egg before laying the second one? I have one that always does that. But you have to watch, so you can replace the real one as soon as she lays the second, and starts sitting on it. But there will always be one a little bigger, as one is going to hatch first, and be fed by the parents a day sooner than the other.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm feeling seek. Tuni's dead. Just my bro called me. I don't know why always it happens with me. First, 2nd baby died. Second, both babies died. Now, again 2nd baby died. If they are seek, what should i do? Plz help me...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It sounds like they might have salmonella/paratyphoid. If this is the case, then the parents must be treated.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

If i remove the 1st one, where should i store it. In what condition.?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> If i remove the 1st one, where should i store it. In what condition.?


Just in the house. But, listening to what has been happening with your babies, it sounds as if you need to treat the parents. Any birds that you have. Teresa gave you information in this post. Go back and read it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here's a link to information. Scroll down til you come to paratyphoid.
http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The Doctors Corner/diagnosis.htm#Salmonellosis (paratyphoid)


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

I consult with my sister.in.law. She is a vet. She told to use a med Moxasil.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

which is basically amoxicillin, here is what it says for the use in avian medicine
amoxicillin, an antibiotic in the penicillin family, not often used in avian medicine, since many bacteria that cause avian infections are often resistant to it
amoxicillin and clavulanate, a combination of drugs that makes amoxicillin more effective in treating some bacterial infections


http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/avianmeds.html


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Ok i'll use it. Plz tell how to use amoxicillin to my bird.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Yeasmin said:


> Ok i'll use it. Plz tell how to use amoxicillin to my bird.


why don't you have your vet family member do some tests on the birds to see what is going on first, then treat for that illness if they have one on her recommendation. we are not vets here, only can suggest things.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for ur suggestion. I'll do whatever i can do.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That med may not work. As spirit wings has suggested, it would be better to test the birds first to know what it is that they have. You can't be sure which med to use if you don't know for sure what it is that you are treating for.


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

My brother only found moxicillin 500 mg. Is it right to use? And how can i use it? My sis is not available to talk or call. And i must not wait till her coming.what should i do?


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Yeasmin,

It's not much good asking for advice if you're not going to follow it. Believe it or not, there are other members here that also need help.
*It's now a month since Terry said that you should get your birds checked for Paratyphoid, and if they had it, to treat them with Enrofloxacin. Your sister-in-law is a vet, so what am I missing here?* 

Amoxicillin 500mg is for people, it's very strong. For an adult bird weighing about 330g you need 12.5mg 2 times a day for 5 days. For a baby, a lot less. The dosages and how to administer them were explained in detail on page 2 of this thread, but it's going to be very difficult to calculate them for a 500mg tablet.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Teresa said:


> Amoxicillin 500mg is for people, it's very strong. For an adult bird weighing about 330g you need 12.5mg 2 times a day for 5 days. For a baby, a lot less. The dosages and how to administer them were explained in detail on page 2 of this thread, but it's going to be very difficult to calculate them for a 500mg tablet.


Dissolve 500 mg tablet in 10 cc/ml of water giving 50 mg per cc/ml. 12.5 mg is 1/4 (0.25) of a cc/ml .. that amount can be pretty easily adjusted for the lesser weight of a youngster .. guessing that about 0.125 cc would be about right .. yes .. a bit hard to measure but doable.

I'm just posting a simple way to use this high mg tablet for a small dose .. haven't checked if the dose is correct or not but knowing Teresa I'll bet it is. Also am not saying that Amoxi is the best/right drug for salmonellosis but having the San Francisco Kings here has certainly let me see first hand that what should work doesn't always work.

Terry


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks all. But i don't think my lil bro can made it. At the end me this month i'll return home for a vacation. Then i'll give the med. May allah remain my birds live until i come. Thank u all. It's my exam take placing. So i've have to study now. And can't able to browse PT. Bye all


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## dishan (Aug 20, 2009)

ak kaj koren...picchitare chula khai dekteparen...kalke theke to roza...chula khauyate subidha hobe...


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

R u kidding with me? This thread is closed long ago. And both of my babies r dead.


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## dishan (Aug 20, 2009)

How can i understand what threat is close...u don't know i m new in this forum...


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## Yeasmin (Jun 24, 2009)

Plz checkout the last post date. Only post relevant question and answer.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dishan said:


> How can i understand what threat is close...u don't know i m new in this forum...


Sometimes it is confusing for new people. That's okay. But if you read the whole thread, it does tell you that the babies died. 
By the way, welcome to Pigeon Talk.

And if you post in English, then more people will be able to help you.


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