# Can feral pigeons end up being domesticated?



## gloria

Hi all,
Please bear with me, my first post and I’ll make this as short as possible!

On May 1st we accidentally destroyed a pigeon’s nest while pruning off branches. We found two baby pigeons, I estimated at that time they were about 12 days old. I decided to mother it back to health with plans to release them. Partly out of guilt.

They used to live in a huge cardboard box. I covered the top with mosquito nettings and left it out on top of my car during the day, near to where we found it. I was trying to observe if any adult pigeons were looking for it but they were there for 2 mornings and…nothing. I even tried to lure adult pigeons by putting food on my car roof but apart from myna birds, pigeons don’t seem to be interested in my lure. Didn't think I did a good job of it...

They grew out of the box in about a week so I moved them into my bathroom, safety and freedom. They ‘live’ in my large bathtub, covered with cat litter and twigs; hoping to provide some grip to their little feet. It’s also easier to clean that way. They have recently discovered the use of their wings (uh oh!) although they’re not flying properly yet. They can ‘hop-jump-fly’ out of the bathtub, though! 

My boyfriend thinks they might end up ‘homing’ after observing their behavior. They would eat out of my hand, understand that I’m the provider of food and doesn’t mind being handled by me. 

I usually put them out on our enclosed deck in the morning, and whenever I’m cleaning the bathtub. But today it was windy, so I just moved them to the sinktop. Instead of ‘running away’ they hung around to observe the cleaning, by perching at the side of the tub…even jumped into the water-filled sink (for cleaning) and took a bath! 

A friend lent us a birdcage, though I think it is a bit small for pigeons that are starting to discover their wings—the cage is not big enough for their wingspan. My boyfriend wants to build an aviary, he thinks it’s a bit cruel to keep them in a bathroom when they should be enjoying and getting acclimatised to the outdoors. 

While I agree about the ‘outdoor’ part, I’m a bit ambivalent about the aviary. I think they might not come back since they were feral to begin with. While they don’t have a problem eating around me or being handled by me, they’re not exactly running to me for affection. Maybe that’s just pigeon behaviour? My take is, they’re only around me because I feed them and give them the occasional rub here and there. My boyfriend think that just because they want to be left alone to do ‘bird things’ doesn’t mean they won’t come back. He’s planning the aviary in such a way that the pigeons are free to fly during the day and come back in the evening and to feed.

I don’t really mind if they come back or not, as the main reason I was raising them was to get them back on their feet. If they do return I’ll be delighted, if not that’s just nature. They have about a month or so before I think they’re fit to be released so I have that time to enjoy them. I’ve been trying very hard to not mother them so much so that they can survive in the wild but that is very, very, very hard to do! There are times I cannot resist playing with them. 

*My questions:*
1.	At this age (estimated one month old), should they even be outdoors, in their own aviary/cage? Is it worth it to build an aviary or purchase a large bird cage? Do feral even ‘home’?

2.	Is it ideal to keep them in a cage where they can be safe, observing ‘nature’ and getting visits from other pigeons? (If ever?)

3.	If they were to be released, would other feral pigeons accept them, having been partly human-raised?

4.	Also, what concerns me most is their survival in the wild. Can you ever teach a pigeon to ‘forage’? I try by scattering various foods around the bathtub, hoping they get the idea that they would have to do this when they are out there. So far I think they do get the idea but most times when they’re hungry their first instinct now is to look into their dish.

Any feedback/advice on this will be greatly appreciated!


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## pesya

hey gloria,

i'm new to the forum too, and just rescued a pigeon about one month ago.. i don't know much, but i might be able to answer a few of your questions. as far as homing goes, it depends on the breed (i read that 'rollers' -- pigeons that somersault mid-air -- don't share the homing gene), but if they're feral rock pigeons, as in just your 'average' city pigeon, i'm pretty sure they can. i don't know how long you need to keep the little guys to have them come back, but i'm sure that if they have that gene, they'll fly back to you.

i let my pigey out once in a while in a sectioned-off part of my front yard (unfortunately he can't fly), on a stoop that's about 5' high to keep him away from predators (like the neighbor's cats). although he's a little older than your guys, i think that if they come back and you decide to keep them, they would really benefit from being outside. my little guy absolutely loves being around all the other birds.

now for the other questions, i have no idea  
hopefully some of the experts on here can help you out on those ones.
also, you should post pictures of the little guys!


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## msmely

I don't know much about pigeons either. I rescued a feral pigeon when it was very young and he is domesticated now. 

I'm not sure what you should do with yours but there are plenty of people here who know a lot, so hopefully someone will reply soon  good luck! they sound adorable!


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## RodSD

1.) Feral birds do have homing ability, but of limited range. Also there are different kinds of ferals--the original wild-type, escaped homers and the mixed breed. Each have varying homing ability. They can live in an aviary, but they should have some sort of shelter inside the aviary. One month old is possible as long as you check that they have full feathers underneath their armpit.

2.) It is ok for them to be inside an aviary observing nature. In fact it is safer for them compared to living in the wilds. Since these are social or flocking birds, it is good that they have companies. Is it ideal? It depends....

3.) If released other pigeons can welcome them, but they may not know how to survive outside.

4.) Yes, you can teach them how to forage, but not in the bathroom. Put them in a cage where the bottom is clear with wire. Put the cage outside the lawn and put seeds on the grass and let them peck the seed from the safety of the cage. Obviously you may try to give them other feed besides grain because most likely they seldom find nice looking grains in the wild. Maybe you can try bread?

There is a method of reintroducing feral birds to the wild. Basically you find a flock of feral pigeons, feed those flocks, put your cage birds with them and feed them all. Do that several times with your birds still inside the cage. Your goal is to introduce your birds to the flock and your birds to them. Once they get used to the flock, you can then release your cage birds with them. Your caged birds should now identify themselves as part of the flock so they will follow the flock and hopefully will imitate the wild birds how to survive. Continue feeding the flock and your birds there until you feel comfortable. If you built an aviary before doing this, your birds might come back to your place though. Good luck!


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## whytwings

Howdy Gloria......I don't think there's any doubt these little guys will return home to you .
If you can offer them a safe home and loving care ..I would say go ahead and build the aviary , they will bring you much joy !

I guess I am in a similar position right now with two babies I saved from destruction by some factory workers who thought that was the best since the parent was accidently killed . There are quite a few expericed people here that are proficent with soft release programs , so that option is definately there .

I think I will probably offer my to new youngsters a safe and long life here since I already have birds of my own .

Good luck with what ever you decide to do and best wishes to you 

Darren


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## Pigeon Dude

*Can Wild Pigeons Become Domesticated*

Hi Gloria.

Welcome to this group.

I concur with the thoughts the other members have shared and just have some details to share from my back yard releases.

The idea of leaving them outside in a big enough cage offers a ton of benefits:
1) It allows them to forage though the cage bottom, as RodSD mentioned.
2) It allows them to be surrounded by pigeons in close proximity multiple times every day.
3) It allows them to experience predators in a safe, protective enclosure and learn the needed fear of them.

If you choose to release, you might consider having your boyfriend build a "location release cage". (I just coined that phrase. Please don't consider it the official name or design.)

 Here is the principal behind it:

Pigeons basically need food, water, shelter from harsh wether, room to flap their wings and a place to escape and get out of harm's way. 

If a person has the room and is wanting to release pigeons into their own back yard, a good sized temporary cage would be at least a three foot cube.
A four foot cube would be ideal (but kind of bulky).

Shelter: If half of the cube is covered on all sides (including half of the top) with plywood or any other solid material, the pigeons have a place in the cage to roost and escape eye and tooth contact from any predators, as well as a place to roost at night away from wind and rain. Also a place to escape the sun if they are getting too hot.

It is also a good idea to feed your birds in another spot on something higher off the ground near by, to establish a familiar place they can fly to if they get "hunted" by the kitties next door. ( A little bit more on creating a safe place later on)

Food:
I'm sure you are doing perfectly fine in the food department.
Food is great for playing two roles:

1) The obvious - feeding our pigeons
2) The not-so-obvious: Attracting other pigeons right up to the side of the cage.

When I release matured pigeons, I first keep the weanlings out back in a cage with the above and I feed the feral pigeons on the ground all around the cage daily. I pour the food in little piles half in the cage (through the mesh) and half right up against the cage sides (the mesh sides, of course... not the solid material sides) on the ground. I also put a dish of water and a pile of pigeon feed on top of the cage (plywood half of course) - to attract the pigeons from up high.

This feeding process allows the feral pigeons and the newly maturing ferals to eat side-by-side and become used to eating in a large group.

They get to observe all of the natural adult pigeon behaviour.

* * * It is hugely important to develop a consistent feeding schedule back there. Early mornings are best, because pigeons go looking for food as soon as they wake up. A successful "find" in the mornings brings multiple pigeons through out the day. * * *

Water:

Same as food. An extra dish of water or two... or three on the outside of the cage right next to the mesh sides will keep the wild/feral pigeons on the ground and near your birds longer. Adding to the same affects as food does.
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Note: The down-side to all of this is... when release time comes, you will have these guys sticking around for life, in most cases. And you will most-likely become addicted to feeding wild pigeons, if they do not start soiling areas of your property too badly. 
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After a week or two, your birds will consider this cage "home".
You can start to *leave the door of the cage open when you are around to oversee their safety. Three day weekends are great for your first "open-door days" experiment.

*But first, you'll want to be sure that they are familiar with their safe place.
They might not gravitate to it, but they will see it as a place to land (besides the ground) in a moment of panic.

Safe Place:
Pick out a shed roof or of even a trash can. Something at least three feet off the ground (or build a little shelf in some spot) where you can set a smaller cage (like the smaller cage from your friend) with a cup of water and a cup of food and leave them there for an hour or two sporadically in the week. Best if it is at a tie when you can supervise. After the same week or two, your birds will at least come to recognize this area as a place where they have been up a little higher and not felt stressed.

Although it is not something anyone can guarantee, most pigeons will start to check that area out when you begin releasing them.

Just open their door in the morning when you do the ground feedings.
Your neighbor's cats will already have established their vigils around your cage, so please be watchful when your door is open.

This will pose a definite challenge if you have to shoot out to the store or run errands while the cage door is open.

Hopefully, by now your pigeons will begin to fly off with the feral flock in the mornings with their open door left opened at early morning feedings and come back to your cage around dusk.

Sometimes excited feral pigeons actually go into the temporary cage with your birds and eat their food too. That is always fun. 

My wife just woke up. I need to go put coffee on. 
I'll check back in later if you have any more questions on timing or feeding or
any others. Good luck with these guys. That is pretty much what the re-release side of it looks like here in Sun Valley, CA.


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## Jaye

Well...can't add much to all of that.

Basically, you should more or less decide now whether you wanna keep 'em and build a loft/flight cage...or release.

If release, then keep in mind it is up to them, really. They may not catch on to the *Soft Release* acclimation that others have described above. In which case, they are now your companions. Or...they may catch on and wanna go.

One thing (sorry if someone already answered, the replies above were very dense and I may have missed something): do NOT let them outside when they are babies. At around 4 weeks they DO have the ability to get aloft, although it might not seem like they do. If that happens, and they end up someplace where it is difficult to retrieve them....you are all in one big, very bad pickle of a situation. I mention only because folks assume that since baby Pigeons fledge at about 6-7 weeks, they are OK with having them outside on the ground up until around then. That is a very bad assumption to make.

Also, as an addendum to the above comment, although they fledge in the Feral world at 6 weeks...if you end up releasing, do not do so before 8 weeks. They grow more robust with those 2 extra weeks, and you wanna try to give 'em every leg up you can.

Thanks for caring ! And thanks for being so kind and providing for them.


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## Birdguy

Are you sure these descendents of rock doves (pigeons)
as these dont nest in trees and shrubs normally
not sure if you have the same birds as we do in the UK
but any doves that nest amongst branches here, such as wood pigeons and collared doves
are not the same as feral pigeons that nest on buildings (substitutes for natural cliffs and rock ledges)
these types are much more nomadic and will home to a neighbourhood not to a specific 'place' if you know what I mean 
so have to be kept in an aviary not in a loft
hope this helps


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## gloria

Jaye said:


> One thing (sorry if someone already answered, the replies above were very dense and I may have missed something): do NOT let them outside when they are babies. At around 4 weeks they DO have the ability to get aloft, although it might not seem like they do. If that happens, and they end up someplace where it is difficult to retrieve them....you are all in one big, very bad pickle of a situation. I mention only because folks assume that since baby Pigeons fledge at about 6-7 weeks, they are OK with having them outside on the ground up until around then. That is a very bad assumption to make.
> 
> Also, as an addendum to the above comment, although they fledge in the Feral world at 6 weeks...if you end up releasing, do not do so before 8 weeks. They grow more robust with those 2 extra weeks, and you wanna try to give 'em every leg up you can.


Oh, got it! Alright, no outside activity this early and definitely no release til the end of next month. I'm in Australia, currently we're in autumn season so it's a bit cold outside. During the day I let them out on our enclosed patio where it's huge and netted, so they're roaming around and looking at 'things'. Then when it gets darker and colder I just scoop them back up again and let them sleep in the bathtub. 

They flew somewhat this morning. I woke up to find them missing from my bathtub and bathroom floor...they were perched on top of my shower cubicle door...about 2 metres high! Funnily they couldn't get down to feed, so I had to offer my hand and let them 'climb' down. 

I guess the aviary will just have to wait.


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## gloria

Birdguy said:


> Are you sure these descendents of rock doves (pigeons)
> as these dont nest in trees and shrubs normally
> not sure if you have the same birds as we do in the UK
> but any doves that nest amongst branches here, such as wood pigeons and collared doves
> are not the same as feral pigeons that nest on buildings (substitutes for natural cliffs and rock ledges)
> these types are much more nomadic and will home to a neighbourhood not to a specific 'place' if you know what I mean
> so have to be kept in an aviary not in a loft
> hope this helps


The colouring suggest Columba livia, a quick Google search translates that to Rock Dove (whatever did we do before Google????). My boyfriend were cutting down low and dead palm branches (branches? leaves?) and in amongst that were the birds. They were already on the ground with the dead leaves when we found them, we only found them when we were scooping the leaves and hauling them to the back of our ute . If I weren't trying to be all ladylike while hauling dead palms into the ute I would have missed them altogether. Horror.


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## gloria

They're very adorable, especially now that they're showing distinct personalities.  One cannot wait to get into its bath and the other one would have none of it. It is a bit unnerving to have pigeons looking at you while you're showering though...


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## gloria

I would love for them to be around other birds, seeing that there's only so much they can observe from me. I'm not very proper for a pigeon, I think! LOL. In the beginning I was quite worried about them not learning how to fly so I kept on pointing out birds to them while they're out on the enclosed deck. I know it sounds silly, my boyfriend thinks that it's in them to flap their wings and my exercise is just plain hilarious. It was with great relief when I found out they could fly-hop out of the tub, and today fly-hop 2 metres on top of the shower cubicle door.  Funny thing was it seem like they couldn't get down so had to climb down my outstretched hand. Bahaha!


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## gloria

Uhm...I'm sorry if my replies seems out of order. I'm very new at this whole message board posting thing! I'll try to get a picture of the two when I have time. I have one of them when we first found them, another one when they lose their baby feathers (?) and look more pigeonlike and I'll take another one today, where they look positively pigeonly.  (Right after I clean my bathroom, of course).


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## gloria

RodSD said:


> 4.) Yes, you can teach them how to forage, but not in the bathroom. Put them in a cage where the bottom is clear with wire. Put the cage outside the lawn and put seeds on the grass and let them peck the seed from the safety of the cage. Obviously you may try to give them other feed besides grain because most likely they seldom find nice looking grains in the wild. Maybe you can try bread?


Thank you for this advice! Will definitely do this, so in the future they might not only forage on white tiles.  Thank you also for the release method. Come to think of it, they might end up coming back anyway since this area is where we found them. I would hope though that they won't get too familiar because we have a Bull Arab dog that *do* hunt things as a pastime. We've found her eating pigeons at times, and I'm pretty sure these pigeons did not just sit there and wait to be pounced on. It's not as if this is a starving dog too, she was bred for hunting and it's in her nature.  

I toyed with the idea to introduce them as friends but I'm not even willing to take that risk. It's a 16 year old dog...don't think it's up to learning new tricks.


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## goga82

i release all my hand raised babies. 
and u having that porch is perfect. they all ready have spend enough time outside so they know thats their home.
u dont even have to keep them in the cage they wont go anywhere.
at least not for another 3 weeks.
they'll hang around your porch and eventually start getting to know the area.. they'll either start attracting other pigeons to the porch or they might go to them..
either way they will leave you on their own when they are ready


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## Heedictator

if i were you i'll make a large aviary for them with big enough space to live in and even breed without being in the wild~ do what would make you feel better.. in the first place you raised them.. i once had a zebra dove.. it has a size a little larger than budgies


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## gloria

Heedictator said:


> if i were you i'll make a large aviary for them with big enough space to live in and even breed without being in the wild~ do what would make you feel better.. in the first place you raised them.. i once had a zebra dove.. it has a size a little larger than budgies


Well, the aviary is underway as my bathroom now is officially too small for them. They're now flapping about, flying here and there and I assume pretty bored in a small space. Aviary being built this weekend, in the meantime they live in the enclosed deck by day and return to the bathroom to sleep. 

It's going to be an open aviary so they are free to come and go as they please.


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## Charis

When you build your aviary be sure and make it predator proof. The screen should be heavy gage hardware cloth...1/4 inch is best as it should keep mice out too.


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## gloria

Charis said:


> When you build your aviary be sure and make it predator proof. The screen should be heavy gage hardware cloth...1/4 inch is best as it should keep mice out too.


Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. My boyfriend is a steel rigger and his best friend is a shopfitter, so it's like a weekend male-bonding project for them.  Last weekend they did the frame for it...so far it's metal base set on a concrete block, and the frames are constructed from wood. This weekend we'll get the screen for it. 

Can't wait for them to 'leave home' and into their own 'apartment'. Cleaning up after them is driving me nuts!

Which reminds me: how do you guys deal with cleaning up after your pigeons?


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## Bella_F

Hey Gloria,

Its very nice to meet you! I'm from Australia too, in QLD. I hope things are going well with your little ones; it was really nice of you to help them and I know they can be a huge amount of work for a busy person. 

I have some rescued sick pigeons currently living in my bathroom too, (and another two very sick ones temporarily living in other parts of the house) so I know what you mean about cleaning up the mess. All I can say is I'm grateful they are not crows. Bless their beautiful black little faces, but I've had sick and injured crows in the bathroom too and their droppings are unbelievable! They smell so bad and they are huge, so pigeon mess seems a lot easier to manage by comparison. 

I mop the bathroom completely every second day now, and wipe betadine over the surfaces to disinfect them (its perhaps the best anti viral and anti-bacterial disinfectant you can buy). I spot clean every morning and night, and keep a dust pan and brush close by to sweep up seed spills. It gets easier with time, once you are used to the routine.

It should be easier having them outside though. You're lucky to have a boyfriend who wants to make you an aviary! I wish my guy would do that


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## spirit wings

Can feral pigeons end up being domesticated?






Yes they can... read up on pigeon keeping as reguardless feral or purbred, they all have the same needs.


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