# totally mangled foot



## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

hey pigeon lovers,
i was just at the 7-11 and i saw this pigeon flopping around with no tail feathers, unable to stand or fly. So of course i caught the pigeon and brought it home. i read about what food to give him etc and he is eating like a champ but i am really worried about his mangled leg. it is bulbous and swollen and black - the foot part just droops. can this only be treated with antibiotics or can it be amputated? he's such a sweet creature - i just want to take care of his leg. please help


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

Thank you for taking this bird under your care.

Can you tell us where you are located, perhaps we can find you some help, if you would like.

Yes, if the leg needs to be removed, it can be done, and the bird can live on happily.

Can you see anything like thread or twine that might be imbedded on any part of the leg, foot or toes?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And can you post a picture? We've got some folks who are really experienced at that sort of thing.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Is there any obvious break in the bones or looseness in the leg?

Pidgey


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## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

*thank you!*

There is no thread on the foot, i checked. i am located in providence rhode island. i would be will to travel to get some help for this critter but i have little or no money. i guess i'll cross that bridge when i come to it. i will try to get a picture posted asap. i will have to call a friend. the upper portion of the leg appears to have two breaks but, being unfamiliar with pigeon anatomy, i don't know it they are joints. i read in the forums that it is not good to touch the black areas because it could start a bleed but all the damaged areas are black. the foot is not bulbous or black, just the upper leg. should i put topical antibiotics on the black part of the leg?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

The black could be scabbing or dying tissue or even worse, gangrene. Do you have any penicillin on hand? This bird should be put on an antibiotic. The bird was probably hit by a car. The leg should be braced whether it's broken or not. It needs to be stabilized so bleeding doesn't start. You can't use tape to stabilize the leg because any movement of the tape could rip off a scab. The safest way to do this would be to wrap the entire leg from a roll of gauze. Keep the leg in a very slightly bent position and I mean slightly, no more than 10 degrees off center. If you use enough layers of gauze the leg becomes stabilized. You could then wrap some tape to keep the gauze in place. The entire exercise is to completely immobilize that leg.
Everything I just wrote goes down the drain if this is a compound fracture. The bones would have to be placed into their right position first and something stronger than gauze and tape would have to be used such as a hard splint.
Don't use topicals. The softening effect could start a bleed. This has to be kept dry.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello, and thank you for caring!

I have had several pigeons in that same state, they had the foot amputated (one had to have both feet amputated) and they are fine now, but I have kept them in my aviary because they are settled there . The photo in the link is not the worst one, others have just had an infected ball at the end of the leg (see photo at bottom of post)!. 

http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/stringinjury.htm

If you go for amputation then please put the pigeon on a course of antibiotics first (one pigeon died under anaesthetic, possibly from toxic shock) and make it clear that you want it ro be amputated at the first joint, so that he has a stump to walk on. Because I didn't make this clear with the first pigeon that I took to the vet they amputated the whole leg. At first she was fine, learning to hop around and perch on one leg, but the strain is too great and now, after a few years, she is having problems.

Cynthia


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

Cynthia,
What happened with the bird shown in your picture? That is one of the worst cases of bumble foot I've ever seen.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here are drawings to help determine where (so that you can more easily describe it) the probable breaks are:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

And here is a thread regarding splinting (it's not the only way and it's possible that further splinting would be necessary if the femur and upper tibiotarsus is involved; read it but scroll to the bottom for more drawings):

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13878

Birds have funny colored bruising--it's kinda' dark bluegreen like this (click the picture):



Pidgey


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## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

*thank you sooo much!*

A big thank you to all you pigeon lovers who responded to my cry for help. I found a wildlife clinic and the pigeon is there now. The first thing they did was give him some painkillers which made me feel better because I knew that he had to be in tremendous pain. They are pretty sure that it will have to be amputated. They said that as a heavy bird, getting around on one foot would be very difficult for him and his survival but I have read a couple threads that say they make out okay. Is there a consensus on this? If he can't get by on his own I'll take care of him. Thanks so much for all your help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

A heavy bird can always lose weight, you know, but they can get around and they definitely prefer living to being put to sleep. I know I would. I've had some pretty awful cases and they can often heal, even though it sometimes takes quite awhile. Check with the clinic and see if they'll let you convalesce the bird if it means that he can try keeping the leg. You see, there is a difference on how to treat them if you're willing to give it time and attention over a long period. Sometimes with clinics, it's like triage on a battlefield--you do what you have to do in order to save the most patients and sometimes that means amputating when you don't actually have to. Here's a case-in-point:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Cynthia,
> What happened with the bird shown in your picture? That is one of the worst cases of bumble foot I've ever seen.


That wasn't bumblefoot it was thread damage. The foot was amputated and the pigeon (Titch) is with me now. She is an incredibly soft and gentle pigeon and has a loving mate (Mick...we were going through the Dave Dee band at the time we rescued them).

Cynthia


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## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

*clinic*

Thanks for the advice pidgey - and what a fantastic job you did with that nasty wound! Were you able to release him? No, I told them at the clinic that I would take care of him if he wouldn't be able to survive in the wild - I explicitly mentioned that I did not want the bird put down. The only thing is, I have 5, yes 5 cats. While I'm sure that I could figure something out, I can't help but wonder if he would be happier with other birds in an aviary or something. We're not out of the woods yet but at least I know capable people are taking care of him. I'm already very attached - I can see this intelligence in his eyes.
Anyway, thanks again.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, I didn't release that bird but I could have. She still lives out in the loft and is still the cussin'est bird you ever heard. It's pretty hard to put that much into a bird, and then let them go and always wonder. You want to watch their lives and share it with them. It may be that you just can't stand the idea that something might happen to them and cut it all short. Sometimes, the hardest part is letting go.

Pidgey


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## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

*broken hip*

I called the clinic today and they said the pigeon had a broken hip. And they put him down without calling me or anything. I am so upset, crying first thing on a monday. They were supposed to give him back to me no matter what. They said he could have never lived with the broken hip - is this true?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

OMG, I'm so sorry! 

My thoughts & prayers are with you.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Some of us have had birds that had to have an entire leg removed and lived just fine. You see, there is some interpretation to be applied when the phrase "never could have lived... " is used--it often needs something added to complete the thought like "...if it's up to me" or "...with my idea of a reasonable quality of life"... things like that.

Honestly, there are wildlife rehab centers that are wonderful and then there are those that just aren't so. Until you've had personal experience with one, it's really hard to know. I'm sorry this happened for you and the bird.

Pidgey


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

my friend has a pije whos leg was eaten off by rats whe it was young, he is now 2 years and is normal, he eats well and reproduces well too


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Oh defstef, I am sorry the end result was not good for you or the pigeon. I am so sorry.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so very sorry! Wildlife hospitals often think that a pigeon has only two options: complete recovery and release or euthanasia.

Those of us that rescue pigeons and keep the unrelesable ones know how well they adapt to both captivity and handicap.

But at least it didn't die slowly and painfully as it would have if you hadn't picked it up.

Cynthia


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2007)

These centers live and breathe by one rule. If the animal can be released back into the wild, then do the work necessary to do it. If the animal can't be released back, then put it to sleep. This is a rule set up by state environmental protection agencies and they have to be followed or the center could lose its license. A wild animal that isn't releasable is also not a good candidate to be kept in confinement. They're wild so their life is over. 
That's all fine and good for protected wildlife but these clinics/hospitals haven't had personal experience with unprotected pigeons and don't realize that a handicapped but cooped pigeon can have a wonderful life so they apply the same standards to the birds. These places have to be educated too.
If this bird had a broken hip, would it have been able to live pain free or would it have been in pain for the rest of its life? That should have been the standard not if it could survive in the wild. We will never know that because this place never gave the bird enough time to be evaluated.


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## piney_creek (Jun 5, 2006)

I have a one legged pigeon.

PINEY


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

One legged pigeon are not a problem. They adapt very well to a perfect life in the loft.


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## defstef (Feb 22, 2007)

*thank you all*

Thank you all for your thoughts, prayers, and input. I have learned my lesson about the clinics. I even told them that I could take care of him so his surviving in the wild was not an issue. I just don't see how people can just scrap other beings that could otherwise live. Although, I must say that a broken hip sounds painful but I still wish that I could have made the decision myself. How does one tell if a pigeon is in pain? He was obviously in pain when I got him but there did not seem to be an obvious sign of pain. Dogs and cats can keep pain to themselves too. I just can't stand the idea of delivering this bird to a death camp. Now I'm even wondering if he had a broken hip or they made it up. AHHH! I know, I'll just have to let this one go but I feel like I was duped by an agency that I foolishly trusted.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Defstef,

Please don't blame yourself. You did all you could to help and took this bird to the clinic in good faith. I know it's hard, but it's not your fault...you did good.

Linda


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

No Defstef,
Thread damage to the foot is not a broken hip; somebody is blowing smoke at you. The anatomy of a bird is that the ankle is up where we see the knee on a human. It is as though an extention is attached to that ankle down to the bird's foot. A broken hip means the bird does not move at all.
Stay away from the so-called clinics and rehabers if you want to do something for any pigeons that come into your life; they almost all think the pigeon is a trash bird that the world would be better off without. You can find vets that may be willing to help through the pigeon clubs in your neigborhood, but stay away from the "wildlife" clinics and rehabilitation people, they are just looking for donations.
Sorry about your experience, but as you have found out the poor little creatures are often so grateful for the help people give them it just about tears your heart out. Keep trying!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I have also heard that if it was a broken hip they would be flopping around on the ground, not able to stand.
Most places will put them to sleep, but know you know this, and learned it the way all of us learned it, by trusting them and them breaking that trust over and over..
next time, you'll know. i am so sorry though, i know how that feels. it wasnt your fault at all, and it was probably better this way than having him get eaten by a cat outside.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

wow, you have amazingly nice nails pidgey judging from the "hole in breast" photo!  

and what a fantastic job on the wound, my stomach was all funny just looking at the photos of the wound.



Pidgey said:


> .... You see, there is a difference on how to treat them if you're willing to give it time and attention over a long period. Sometimes with clinics, it's like triage on a battlefield--you do what you have to do in order to save the most patients and sometimes that means amputating when you don't actually have to. Here's a case-in-point:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512
> 
> Pidgey


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

defstef i am so sorry they killed the birdie. i am sure another one will come your way and will benefit from this experience. you found us after all, now you are one of us.  

pigeonperson you make some very good points.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Aias said:


> wow, you have amazingly nice nails pidgey judging from the "hole in breast" photo!
> 
> and what a fantastic job on the wound, my stomach was all funny just looking at the photos of the wound.


Aias,

Those are Lin's nails, not mine, thank goodness (although I have noticed that short-clipped nails are a real deficit when you're trying to get one's beak open for meds or tube-feeding).

I'll never forget sitting there for an hour studying all the damage and seriously considering taking her in to get euthanized. It was her lively attitude that made me "go for it". You just can't help both respecting and loving that bird because she's been one heckuva' teacher in how far gone they can make it back from if you're willing to work with them.

Pidgey


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