# breaking point...?? racing course



## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

how do you figure out where the breaking point is to your race course???


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I guess there isn't much way to figure that out unless you are able to follow your birds to see where they break away at. In theory, if you make one release point your main place that you train from (like 40 miles for example, several times. You may go farther but always come back when they need breaks), then that will become their breaking point. Or you hope so anyway.
A lot depends on how spread out your combine is and where the most pull is. If the major flock comes right over your house, then your birds don't really need to break away, other than right when they are released to get a head start. If you are way out on the edge of the combine and all the birds are going right through the middle or way up higher/lower than you, then your birds will probably need to break very quickly so they don't get dragged too far and lose valuable time.

No matter what, you can only hope that when your birds come out of the trailer, they get up, find their barings quick, and get the flock out of there  LOL. The longer they circle and swerve around with everyone else, the slower their time will be.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

If my birds do not break from the larger flock, immediately after being released, I am doomed to be beaten. Because I am on the totally opposite side of town from the main group.  

But if theirs do not break from mine. Boda Bing, Boda Boom!


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

this is like the million dollar question and maybe it varies somewhat from course to course but I think MaryOfExeter mostly hit the nail on the head with her answer.

for more clustered clubs and combines obviously the birds don't have to break right away if hardly at all but if you fly in a club or combine where everybody is very spread-out the birds practically have to break right out of the truck

one thing that people always somewhat assume to is that all of the birds are flying the same speed and therefore its necessary for birds to break. a lot of times when you see birds out front on a race it might not be because they picked the right breaking point but more because they were just faster and broke away and left the flock in the dust.

sometimes this can be a single bird, it can be a group of birds going to one guys or maybe a group of 10 birds that belong to say 6 different guys all get out front and then have to break from there.

goal should be not only to get your birds to break but also have them in good enough shape and have great birds to where they get out front and leave the flock behind


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

swaze said:


> this is like the million dollar question and maybe it varies somewhat from course to course but I think MaryOfExeter mostly hit the nail on the head with her answer.
> 
> for more clustered clubs and combines obviously the birds don't have to break right away if hardly at all but if you fly in a club or combine where everybody is very spread-out the birds practically have to break right out of the truck
> 
> ...


I agree! The healthiest, smartest birds should have the greater advantage, and more likely to say, "I don't care where ya'll are going - I'm going home!" and leave the others behind. Then it's just up to the quickest of the bunch.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree! The healthiest, smartest birds should have the greater advantage, and more likely to say, "I don't care where ya'll are going - I'm going home!" and leave the others behind. Then it's just up to the quickest of the bunch.


yep exactly. and i think it happens all the time and a lot more than most flyers want to believe.

most flyers when they get beat in a race immediately want to point to some excuse such as location when the reality is they got beat because their birds were just slower. they could be slower for a variety of reasons and when not doing well can be the tough thing to figure out but most of the time their is a solution and more often than not it has something to do with health


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

What if there is no one breaking point, but several breaking points? I have observed that some racers break off when they are on top of my airspace when they realize they are at the wrong place. LOL! So that is one breaking point for someone else's bird. 

Since there are leaders and followers in pigeons maybe the leaders are those that will break away when they are near a familiar place. It would be perfect if we GPS some of these birds and figure out the breaking point(s). Other than that it is a speculation on our part.


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

morning everybody-thanks for all of the info on when they should break away i understand rono842 from columbus ohio


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I would say we fly here in Lake Charles, La. along with combine in Lafayette. There is a 60 mile different between us from East to West we fly the North course. To me the Breaking point would be from were they are released. but with a NW wind they have the advantage when we have a NE wind its in our advantage. But a good bird will win are be close to winning.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I do the same thing Goldie does with map. But I figured my break point 40 to 50 miles away. Dont want them to overfly. Then I draw a line from my break point to the loft. Then I try to find the area on the map and toss them from there. I have 4 toss points that I always take my birds too. Which are on the break point line . I have a 12,22,30 and 50 mile spot. Thats the only spots I toss from.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

What I did was draw lines from each race station and pick a spot with a decent landmark that's closest all the lines. I figure if they're too far from that line they aren't gonna win the race anyway. But if they are close to that line they'll know the fastest route home since they've probly been to that spot atleast 30 times b4 I get them in a race.


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

any body race the north course here in california ? from the central valley to northen california ,chico...klamath falls oregon..?


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't believe in the "break point." When you think about it, if a bird has to "break," then it is not truly leading the race. Instead, it's a follower and has to know how to leave the flock at the right time/place. I believe a true winning pigeon will exert his or her superior athletic skills and homing ability and be the first one home.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You guys are lucky, our combine is 300 miles east to west and 120 miles north to south. Its darn hard to find a breaking point. I had to find a topo map to try and find the best valley for the them with a good land mark, the bad thing is its 130 miles each way to train from that spot. Any ideas would be helpfull.
Dave


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

As you can see, realtalk72. There is no cut and dry answer. No consensus. No magic bullet or answer to that question.

Each flyer has to work out what works for that flyer, his/her birds, and his/her location.

Some of it is just dumb luck for sure. Some directions (race courses) have to "go around" mountains. Some good birds do not break. Some average or below birds, will break at the most oportune time, but only once. Wind can and generally does, make a selected "breaking point" a fantasy dream. Imagine how many predator birds our pigeons encounter or at least see, in the course of a several hundred mile race. Those things probably throw them off, each and every race. From anything close to a straight line home. In studies I have read about. Racing pigeons have been tracked and the flight patterns were zig-zag, zig-zag, all over the place. For sure the zig-zags were relatively small and the eyesight of our birds is tremendous. But my point is that there are so many variables on any given day, that a selected breaking point for training "may help", but probably not, IMO.

If someone wanted to test a theory. Divide your birds into two teams. Train one team always from what you believe to be a good breaking point. Train the other team, haphazardly but in the general direction of the race course. Then tally up the differences in the results from the actual races.

I just don't happen to believe that the really good birds need to be shown a breaking point. I believe they know the way home better than we do. Under whatever circumstances they are encountering on that specific day.

But what the heck do I know. I ain't a homing pigeon.


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

condition freak , what you said makes alot of sense thanks


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Jaysen, one thing you could do (and I've been told I'm crazy for doing this) is single toss all your birds on all the training tosses shorter than 40 miles. In 2009, I single tossed all my birds in all four directions up to 20 miles. I started out at 3 miles in each direction and increased them to 20 miles. I then focused on the direction that our federation flies and single tossed them up to 40 miles. I also tossed them as a group at 40 miles after group tossing them together at 80 miles. I lost a few birds, but was able to get good results with the birds I had left.


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## pigeonnewb (Jan 18, 2008)

Well, I'll tell you how I figure my breaking point and you can take it with a grain of salt or not. It has worked for me considering where I live. I fly in a club, where everyone says I live off the line of flight. I remember a while back(LONG TIME AGO), Becky, said something about if you look at the race station and draw a straight line to your loft, thats your birds best line of flight. Now we want all of our birds to fly that route. Non-the-less, in my experience, it's a rare occasion to see more than a few fly that route. Especially, if you live off the line of flight like mine. Although I have had one or two birds every year that always clock very decent, earning them diplomas. So getting to the point of how I fugure my breaking point, I kinda look at the terrain we're flying from because I believe the birds will fly the path of least resistance, ask people in my club which path the birds have flown in the past and came up with a part/landmark along the main flight path, I believe my birds should break off and still be able to clock in a decent time. I learned that no matter how much or how far I train them out, when they are released at the race station, they tend to follow each other for a little ways anyways. My buddy and I, have trained together for the last 2 seasons and last season we GPS one of the more consistant birds and the bird did fly the route we suspected and wanted. But you never know when it comes to the bird. Once you release them, in the end, theres no telling where they will go. I hope this helps.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

This is my terminology of my Own breaking point... As soon you let them out on the basket or trailer they go up giggle thier tail or strech legs and tucked off they go... or The sooner they separate on that cirling flock more chances of winning... Not 40 nor 80 miles what's the point, if your birds are on the last group of birds and a bounce of birds break-up early rigth at the beginning...

Maybe I ask something here... How do u teach your birds to break-up early?


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Single tossing has worked for me to teach them to break early.


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

I have single tossed my birds , took them out all directions and let them go on training tosses with my club my birds are year olds and they have been around the block a few times ..I guess I have to race my birds and do my homework I hope they do good ..there is so much to learn in this sport ...thank for all your help...


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

Read and learn that's what life is all about... You know I think I'll answer that question, yeah single tossing is of them but HUNGER is the most effectived way how to teach our birds to break-up early specially on youngbirds... tossed them 50 miles with no food on their stomach as soon as they arrive feed less then repetations 3 to 5 times and you'll see the difference....no matter what direction you tossed them they'll figure out that shortest fligth to get home....


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Two things I like to add. Pigeons will try to use the shortest distance as possible to reach home--that is according to GPS data. Second, when they reach an area where they are familiar with, they will break and head home. I haven't found a scientific research though where they test how pigeons break if they are accompanied by other pigeons with different homes.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

klondike goldie said:


> something else that I do is call my birds with a whistle when I feed them. My first toss is a mile, second 4 miles and so on. I make sure the birds are hungry every time I take them on a toss, after the birds are loaded in the crates I put feed in the feeders, I take my whistle with me to toss the birds. From the first toss of 1 mile all the way out to 40 miles, I stop, sit the crates on the ground, wait 2 minutes, blow the whistle to call the birds to feed, then open the crates. I only put enough feed in the feeders for half the birds ( I hand feed them a little more once they are all in. After the first couple of tosses they start racing home to eat. Hopefully blowing the whistle reminds them that they have feed waiting on them. After the 40 mile tosses I stop using the whistle until i reach the 100 mile toss then I use the whistle. Just what I do, maybe it helps maybe not.


I know it help because you dominated our young bird race this year. Wether head wind or tail winds and even when the club changed the release point and it wasn't to our advantage your birds still dominated the race. I'm hoping to get some tricks and train the way you do but I have to see first what kind of time I get next year. Again congrat Jerry!!!


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

i think each flock and each pigeon varies when they break off from the main flock depending on the individual pigeon itself..I did some test and observation and i found that depending on the pigeon.. The better ones will not care to flock and unafraid to fly single so therefore they break early back to there loft and not follow other flocks for too long..So if u got some not so bright pigeons in ur loft they will follow the one that i call freak of nature and break away from the other flock since most of ur birds know which flock they belong too and they will follow there own flock.. But 1st u have to identify which bird u got is the freak of nature bird and let him bring in ur other not so bright pigeon back to ur loft without them getting drag too long out of the line of flight..
Otherwise they are gonna get drag out of the line of flight or fly to other peoples loft..


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Now if you could just get the liberator/transporter, to whisle when he lets the birds up for a race. You've got a system.


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

invest in a $200 (I forgot the exact price) GPS for pigeons.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

anil_pigeon said:


> invest in a $200 (I forgot the exact price) GPS for pigeons.


that's about what the price is but everything i have heard suggests that it's too heavy and causes those birds to come late so whatever path they take may not be accurate as to what they would take without the extra weight

then of course if a hawk or falcon takes that bird you are out the $200 just like that


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks guys I'm gonna draw a map and work it out not a bad idea my birds just overfly like I think they do or they're just no good.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

MN, you will have to train on a slightly different course than me this coming year!


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm gonna hop on a trailer


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