# OH! What's This?!



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

my babies are hatching. the first one hatched sometime today while i was at work. how long does it take for the second egg to hatch? i havent gotten to see the baby yet but i found the egg pieces on the bottom of the cage and i felt it when i was petting momma. ill hopefully get a picture when i can catch her off of the nest but until then im very anxious.


----------



## maine123 (Sep 21, 2007)

sometimes, they hatch that same day, depends if the parents didn't sit on the first egg when it first came out. sometimes you will have to wait a day or maybe two. Pics would be nice! I hope they grow up well!


----------



## bcr1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Congrats on the baby! we want pics!


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

momma sat on first egg from day it was laid. she had only been laying one egg. so i was surprised when the other turned up.


----------



## maine123 (Sep 21, 2007)

yeah the second if it is fertile should hatch today or tomorrow. keep a close eye on it.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

okie
cant wait


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

well i just checked this morning and theres no baby yet. maybe when i get home from work. lets hope


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't think it would of hatched yet it has only been 9 hours since you checked it last. it can take awhile, it could be piping and you not know it. I would be worried if it takes more than today as it will be so much smaller than the other, so you will have to keep a very close eye on it ...if it hatches.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

i just got home from work and it didn't hatch. when i looked at it this morning it didn't even have the little hole in it like when they start to hatch. i didn't take it out and look at it right now though. just incase it was hatching i don't want to mess it up but i could definitely see that there was a whole egg still under her.
and im worried the baby that did isn't alive. but i couldnt get a good look. an answer to this question might tell me if it is or not.
do the babies hold up there heads or are they like human babies and can't do it right away? i ask this because when i went to check on them all i could see the babies head sticking out from under momma and it was facing to the side but laying down flat and the rest of its body was still under her. i took a picture of what i saw but i can't upload it right now i will soon.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

Hillary...

Here is a picture of mine when they were under mom and dad on the first day to compare to... so you can see how their head was.










and another a day or so old:


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

my baby would be about a day old and it is no where near that big. your babies head looks like its atleast somewhat held up mine doesn't look like that. it could just be me but i don't know if i should take it out and see if its breathing even if i don't think it is im gonna put it back. i know momma will let me know if its not alive cuz she will get off of it but i think even if it isn't alive she is staying on the nest because of the other egg.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

here is the picture vvv


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

The top photo of mine, I know for certain is day one.....lol... I was totally elated....the other one give or take a few days.... so when I compare it to yours, which I am assuming that is just the babies head poking out... it looks the same... I was able to get up really close because the nest was at my eye level... I would try and find out if the baby is alive. And if it were dead.. IMO- it should be removed. But idk?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh my gosh, I hope it is well. just wait and see, best not to disturb them at this point. those pics are preciouse guys. he does look a bit small, but he could be just fine, they are pretty much like a little rag doll at first, so it is hard to tell from the pic.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

does this look normal?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

have you touch him with your finger to see if there is any movement?


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

from where i have positioned the nest it is kind of hard to touch the babyb and hold momma out of the way. i can only get one hand in the cage. i will try now though and ill let you know.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

ok so i just lifted her off of the nest and poked it. i couldn't really see any movement unless it was very small. plus it is pretty dark too. i could take it out and bring it to the light and see if i see it breathing. whats your input on that? momma is back on the nest now and moving around a bit. hmm... now she is preening..idk.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

dovelove<3 said:


> does this look normal?


do the babies curl up like that normally? i actually think momma was putting into this position but idk.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> ok so i just lifted her off of the nest and poked it. i couldn't really see any movement unless it was very small. plus it is pretty dark too. i could take it out and bring it to the light and see if i see it breathing. whats your input on that? momma is back on the nest now and moving around a bit. hmm... now she is preening..idk.


I would let them be for the night. Maybe tomorrow try again when someone can help you..... and there's better light. S/he does look tiny, now that I look at the second picture. Also if your home tomorrow... mom and dad should take turns sitting, so you could always check when that happens.... but you have to watch out for them to switch. 
When you did touch the baby was s/he warm....


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

sadly im not going to be home tomm. i have to work again. =[ the baby didn't feel cold but i wouldn't say it was as warm as mom and dad are.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

do you see the direction momma is facing in the last picture? ^^^
well when she got back in the nest she is facing the other direction. unless she moved the baby or it moved itself (i doubt that it did) then that would mean she is _sitting_ on it with her tail rather then the brood patch....right..


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

she will postion herself and coddle the baby if it is still viable, just do as floridaluv says that is good advice.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

im leaving them alone for now. ill check in the morning. but just peeking in without moving her or anything i think i see the baby poking from under her and it is in the same place. i guess i will just see tomorrow. sigh...i don't like waiting.

i have another question about the other egg now. i looked at it too when i went to poke the baby. i noticed that whatever is on the inside is darker then was last night when i started the post. what might that mean?. also there is still no hole.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

just wait it out, the pip could be on the otherside, so give it till tommorow and see.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

oh so its called a pip.. hmm nice to know..
but no it isn't. there is no pip at all. i took the egg out when i looked at it.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

give it till tommorow and see.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

if it does hatch tomorrow though i don't think i will have to worry about it being too much smaller then the other since its small as well...if its alive that is.. im gonna cry if its not...
this is the 4th round now... first one the baby died when it was hatching. the second time the baby hatched but died the same day. third time momma smooshed the egg before it could hatch and now this time.. there are actually two eggs and its looking like neither one is working out..


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wait and see and then go from there to see if the pair need something BEFORE you let them hatch again, but that will wait till you know for sure.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

ya if this time doesn't work im not letting them hatch. ill find some of those wood eggs and that will be the end of it.


----------



## maine123 (Sep 21, 2007)

I cant really see, but it looks kind of lifeless, Might be dead.  you should be able to see it move, can you?


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

i touched it and stuff and didn't see any significant movement. what amount would i see though? having never had babies i have no idea what to look for. im letting them alone for now. but ill be checking first thing in the morning before i leave.


----------



## maine123 (Sep 21, 2007)

it should hold up its head, move around a little, and after a couple of days start squeaking when its feeding time. basically if its head is up it is alive. also the crop should be expanded with food.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

well its only been one day so i can't expect squeaking. but i didn't see any of the other things listed. i can't ever tell about the crop thing. even with my adults. they always look the same..


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

if its alive after 3 days they are doing what needs to be done and the less interferance they have the better


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

ya well i don't even know if its alive after one day...so...


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

hmm are they still on the nest ?


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

yes... if you read the whole thread it explains everything


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

if they are still on the nest they most likely are still alive ..just let them be and if its ment to be they will be ok ..nature has its own course and humans really have no say in that ..


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

I still hope it works out for the best thou ..keep the faith


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

i think its still on the nest because of the egg that hasn't hatched yet.


----------



## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

dovelove<3 said:


> i think its still on the nest because of the egg that hasn't hatched yet.


well if the baby died already then its prolly something the parents are carrying ,have you ever treated your birds for anything before letting them raise some young ?


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

i haven't treated them for anything but i don't know what to treat for. they seem healthy and the one time they didn't it turned out they were just reactting to their own dust.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe it will be okay, but if it isn't, and the other one doesn't hatch, that could mean that the parents are carrying something, and need medication before they are allowed to breed. If that is the case, you need to find out so that you can treat them and make them well. Then they would be able to breed successfully. It could be something as simple as that. I really hope they're okay.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

how do i know what to give them medicine for if they aren't showing any signs of illness and i don't have the money to take them to a vet and say "test for everything"...?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> well its only been one day so i can't expect squeaking. but i didn't see any of the other things listed. i can't ever tell about the crop thing. even with my adults. they always look the same..


Believe me, you'll be able to tell with a baby. The full crop looks like a little pillow in front of it.


----------



## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

Sorry Hill. I kinda know what you are going through. my pigeons have also yet to raise a squab to adult hood. though, it's a predator problem for my birds. I'm sorry your birds haven't had much luck either. do you know how old they are? they may be to young aor to old. Well, I hope that some day you and I will get the privilage of watching a bird hatch and grow into adult hood. I wish you the best.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> how do i know what to give them medicine for if they aren't showing any signs of illness and i don't have the money to take them to a vet and say "test for everything"...?


You can bring in a poop sample. They can check it for bacterias and illness. They can do a culture on it too, which will tell more. They don't need to see the bird. Then they can tell you what you need.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

can any vet do a culture or whatever on bird poo?
because the only place around for birds is an emergency place.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> can any vet do a culture or whatever on bird poo?
> because the only place around for birds is an emergency place.


I think any vet can do a poop, but I'd call and ask first.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

so...baby is dead. i removed it from nest. just looking at it. it seems like its shrivled up except for the"crop" maybe. there is a bubble almost the size of its head and it seems full of air. my camera died before i could get a good picture. why would it be full of air?? there is poo on the baby so i guess they feed it atleast once.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im so sorry. something is amiss there. I would make a guess and say they are carriers of salmonella. you can treat them with this product from siegel pigeons.

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-paratyphoid.html

Enroflaxyn Tablets -- Effective for E. coli or paratyphoid. 1/2 tablet in the morning and 1/2 tablet in the evening down the throat for 5 to 7 days. Each 1/2 tablet is 7.5 mg.

after treatment break down the cage and disenfect it with some bleach water and clean dishes and eveything. or set them up in the new pink cage. you can also give them their seed diet, but add some pellet feed like for cocatiels that is organic or natural type not the dyed stuff, to the seed diet as it has vitamins and minerals in it. now this would be just a guess without taking a sample to the vet, but I think that is a good idea. get a test for bacteria count and also for worms. see what the results are and go from there. when that is all taken care of and they are in their new home and settles in a new basket and have sat some dummie eggs, perhaps you will want to let them hatch another set someday.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm so sorry. I agree with Spirit Wings. Sounds like Salmonella/Paratyphoid. The parents probably are carriers. They can be carriers and appear healthy, but pass it on to the youngsters. I would treat for 10 days though. I have read that to cure the carrier stage, you need to treat longer. For 10 days. I'll look for the link.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here it is.

Baytril for 10 days will eliminate the chronic carrier state. One must clean and disinfect the loft extremely well, however, or infection will return from the environment. New birds, strays, or wild birds can also reintroduce the disease.



http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The Doctors Corner/diagnosis.htm#Salmonellosis (paratyphoid)


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

thanks for the help. and info. i will order that medicine. i guess its a good idea i ordered a new cage. i have new food and water containers too for it too. hopefully one day i can let them hatch and actually have something come from it. =[
should i take their egg away? i just got home from work and i haven't checked to see if its hatched but i doubt it has and i don't want to deal with another dead baby...


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> thanks for the help. and info. i will order that medicine. i guess its a good idea i ordered a new cage. i have new food and water containers too for it too. hopefully one day i can let them hatch and actually have something come from it. =[
> should i take their egg away? i just got home from work and i haven't checked to see if its hatched but i doubt it has and i don't want to deal with another dead baby...


Oh...I'm so sorry too! 

I think it'd be a good idea to treat too. I'm just wondering if you shouldn't clean out the old cage really well with bleach and disinfect everything, then treat them in the old cage for 10 days. Once the 10 days is up then set them up with a fresh start in the new cage. I'd hate to see the virus shed in the new cage.... idk?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> thanks for the help. and info. i will order that medicine. i guess its a good idea i ordered a new cage. i have new food and water containers too for it too. hopefully one day i can let them hatch and actually have something come from it. =[
> should i take their egg away? i just got home from work and i haven't checked to see if its hatched but i doubt it has and i don't want to deal with another dead baby...


I would just leave it alone. It's too close to hatching to take it now. The weird thing about paratyphoid, if that is what it is, is that it can take one baby, and leave the other totally unaffected. I know it's hard for you, but to be fair to the baby, if there is one in there, I'd leave it, and give it a chance.
There is a very good chance that once you take care of this, that you will be able to have your birds breed successfully. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FloridaLuv said:


> Oh...I'm so sorry too!
> 
> I think it'd be a good idea to treat too. I'm just wondering if you shouldn't clean out the old cage really well with bleach and disinfect everything, then treat them in the old cage for 10 days. Once the 10 days is up then set them up with a fresh start in the new cage. I'd hate to see the virus shed in the new cage.... idk?


I kinda think that would be a good idea to do it that way. New cage................new start.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes, great advice from some great folks...please keep us updated on how your birds are doing....you WILL have some hatches in the future, just have to do some preventative measures first. let us know how the pink cage turns out.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> yes, great advice from some great folks...please keep us updated on how your birds are doing....you WILL have some hatches in the future, just have to do some preventative measures first. let us know how the pink cage turns out.


I'll be waiting to see it too!  Not sure I could convince the hubby that I need a pink cage...so I expect lots of pictures! You'll have lil' peepers soon enough... and let us know about the second egg!


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

thanks for the advice. i was going to do it that way and treat them in the old cage before moving them to the new one. i haven't gotten it yet anyway. sometime next week it should come. and i have to get a few more things for it anyway. im probable gonna steal some of your ideas floridaluv. don't hate me,please k? 
what is the latest known time by you guys that a second egg has hatched after the first? tomorrow(well today as its 1am) will be going on three days. 
also about treatment...can i treat without completely cleaning their cage? because either way i do it i can see the virus or whatever it is spreading back to them. 
i could completely clean everything but treatment wouldn't have gotten rid of it yet so wouldn't it actually spread back to everything else? and if i finish treatment before cleaning cage they can contract it again right?...i might just be overthinking this but its a puzzle to me.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> thanks for the advice. i was going to do it that way and treat them in the old cage before moving them to the new one. i haven't gotten it yet anyway. sometime next week it should come. and i have to get a few more things for it anyway. im probable gonna steal some of your ideas floridaluv. don't hate me,please k?
> what is the latest known time by you guys that a second egg has hatched after the first? tomorrow(well today as its 1am) will be going on three days.
> also about treatment...can i treat without completely cleaning their cage? because either way i do it i can see the virus or whatever it is spreading back to them.
> i could completely clean everything but treatment wouldn't have gotten rid of it yet so wouldn't it actually spread back to everything else? and if i finish treatment before cleaning cage they can contract it again right?...i might just be overthinking this but its a puzzle to me.


ME--- hate???? NEVER-- not in my blood at all! LOL You go ahead and steal any idea's your heart desires!...

About the second egg, I think it's pretty safe to assume that it has passed it's time. You can candle it, or hold it up to a flashlight to see if you see any movement, but I am guessing that you won't.

As for the cage-
Disinfect the whole THING! Take my word..please. You want to do it right the first time, so you don't have to go through all this again, taking shortcuts is something that in this case I would'nt do. Reason being if you only clean and disinfect the perches, and not the entire cage...or vise versa What happens if the virus shed onto the floor of the cage or the wire or the basket... and has not been irraticated? Then you stand the chance of treating and re-infecting them, only because you took a shortcut... See where I'm coming from??? Wash and disinfect the whole thing in bleach be diligent and get every nook and cranny, all the dishes, etc... even the basket...let them dry entirely, keep them in a different room for a few hours while you do it, they will thank you in the end!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

the basket might be hard to clean. I would just go to the dollar store and get a few of them to have on hand, one for this cage and a new one for the new cage. I found it easy to get those little "easter looking" baskets with the high handle and zip tie the handle to the roof of the cage in a corner, seems to stay real stable that way.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> the basket might be hard to clean. I would just go to the dollar store and get a few of them to have on hand, one for this cage and a new one for the new cage. I found it easy to get those little "easter looking" baskets with the high handle and zip tie the handle to the roof of the cage in a corner, seems to stay real stable that way.


Very true.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

FloridaLuv said:


> ME--- hate???? NEVER-- not in my blood at all! LOL You go ahead and steal any idea's your heart desires!...
> 
> About the second egg, I think it's pretty safe to assume that it has passed it's time. You can candle it, or hold it up to a flashlight to see if you see any movement, but I am guessing that you won't.
> 
> ...


ya looking at the egg i can see air bubbles and all this dark stuff. never seen an egg like it before. im gonna take it away i guess. i thought they left it alone after awhile but dad is sitting on it right now for once. 
so you guys don't think the birds will reinfect the cage while im treating them? i know with people there are somethings that become not contagious after a certain point of taking antibiotics. so like after a few days of the antibiotics they wont be able to reinfect the clean cage...right?
about the basket...since its probably the biggest site for this thing they might have i should just throw it away? should i really put in a new one? i mean they can go ten days without a nest right. maybe that will keep her from laying again for a little while. she shouldnt be that soon but depending on when the medicine gets here and stuff...


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> ya looking at the egg i can see air bubbles and all this dark stuff. never seen an egg like it before. im gonna take it away i guess. i thought they left it alone after awhile but dad is sitting on it right now for once.
> so you guys don't think the birds will reinfect the cage while im treating them? i know with people there are somethings that become not contagious after a certain point of taking antibiotics. so like after a few days of the antibiotics they wont be able to reinfect the clean cage...right?
> about the basket...since its probably the biggest site for this thing they might have i should just throw it away? should i really put in a new one? i mean they can go ten days without a nest right. maybe that will keep her from laying again for a little while. she shouldnt be that soon but depending on when the medicine gets here and stuff...


I guess the philosophy behind cleaning everything... is to minimize the exposure to any parts of the virus that may have shed. Anything is possible, so its just important to take away the possibilities that are lurking. Once they are treated they will begin to build up their immune system and be more resistant!


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

ahhh.. the new cage came today. i just left and came back a half hour later and there it was sitting in my yard. lol. BIG box too. i hope they like it once they are able to get in it. i can't order and medicine till saturday...so its going to be awhile.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This may be overkill. I don''t know, but you could disinfect the cage, and then do it again halfway through the treatment. Like I said, that could be over kill. But I see what you're saying about when to disinfect it. If I was to do it once, it would probably be after a few days on the med. That way, the chances of the cage getting reinfected may be less, as the birds are already on the meds for a few days.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> This may be overkill. I don''t know, but you could disinfect the cage, and then do it again halfway through the treatment. Like I said, that could be over kill. But I see what you're saying about when to disinfect it. If I was to do it once, it would probably be after a few days on the med. That way, the chances of the cage getting reinfected may be less, as the birds are already on the meds for a few days.


ya thats where i was getting at. you understood me perfectly. i think thats what ill do. so what am i supposed to use to clean it? i think i heard bleach water or something. i don't want to hurt them if they get exposed to harmful chemicals.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> ya thats where i was getting at. you understood me perfectly. i think thats what ill do. so what am i supposed to use to clean it? i think i heard bleach water or something. i don't want to hurt them if they get exposed to harmful chemicals.


1/2 cup of bleach to the gallon of water. Rinse well, wipe it down,and allow to air dry the rest of the way. It won't hurt the birds.


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

i have just been watching them and today i notice dad has runny poo and is sneezing some.. hopefully this medicine will work once i get it. the only problem is that i don't think i will be able to give it to them. i mean i was able to give them liquid antibiotics when they assumed she had a resp. infection. but the things i read on the links you guys provided look like solid pills...this should be interesting.


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

dovelove<3 said:


> i have just been watching them and today i notice dad has runny poo and is sneezing some.. hopefully this medicine will work once i get it. the only problem is that i don't think i will be able to give it to them. i mean i was able to give them liquid antibiotics when they assumed she had a resp. infection. but the things i read on the links you guys provided look like solid pills...this should be interesting.


It's not that hard.  You just place the pill in their beak and gently push it back.... they will swallow it on their own. I have had to do shots, liquid meds and pills... and pills are a piece of cake. Don't worry about it.... you'll see it will be just fine.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is a video that shows the bird being fed a large pea. You would do the same thing with a pill. I hold the bird on my lap, against my tummy. Facing my right side, as I am right handed. Open up the beak, hold it open with your left thumb and forefinger, put the pill in with your right hand, push it toward the back of the throat. He will swallow it. It's easier than giving liquids I think. Hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow


----------



## dovelove<3 (May 28, 2009)

thanks for the video that did help. =]


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your quite welcome. I think pills are much easier than liquids. Wait til you see how easy they are.


----------

