# Feather biting concerns for inexperienced dove owner



## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Hello! Newbie here; I tried my best to search for answers before posting, so sorry if this has been beaten to death before!

I have a male(?) ringneck and female(?) diamond dove that are best friends. I got the ringneck first at a young age and named him Baby. He has quite the panicky personality as he is easily stressed by unfamiliar objects and clothing, but is also extremely affectionate as I can summon him by cooing to him.

When baby was about 4 months old, I introduced my diamond dove, Flurry, to him. I kept them in separate cages and gave them supervised play sessions until I thought they would be ok. Flurry is about half Baby's size, and has the opposite personality as she is very calm but also very shy. Sadly she doesn't seem to like me much; when I got her she was already 6-9 months.

At first Baby would bully her when they started living in the same cage; but after about 2 months of supervision he stopped and now they can't stand to be separated. There have been zero issues for months since; until about a week ago.

Their cage is close to my bed, so in the morning they will usually wake me up to let them out for their morning play session. However, the 2-3 times this past week I have been waking up to Flurry on the run, and baby biting some of her feathers. I have observed the behavior and he does not seem to have any violent intent. My suspicion is that he is attracted to her feathers but does not realize he is harming her. He will only bite feathers on her back or wing, never on the head or around the eyes. 99.9% of the time they are getting along just fine, it's just the 2-3 mornings this past week this has happened.

I have not changed anything in the way I treat them or anything in their environment, so I do not know what may have caused this sudden change in behavior. I am hoping this is just a phase and I am not worried for Flurry's safety as the behavior seems to be more of curiosity than aggression. I just want to make sure that there's nothing to worry about and if there is any advice that you have to offer it would be most appreciated.

Sorry for the lengthy OP; thanks for your help!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Bumping up.

Terry


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Strangely this morning I have witnessed the opposite; they were sleeping huddled together.  This is a first for them as they are close but have never been physically affectionate in any way.

Perhaps doves, like people, simply have disagreements from time to time?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I just do not know... sometimes I see my ring necks grooming each other..perhaps that is what he/she is trying to do?


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, Flurry _really_ doesn't seem to appreciate the grooming if that's the case.

I caught Baby doing it again once this afternoon from the beginning. Flurry was just minding her own business and he kind of sneaks up to her and looks around her like he's checking her out, then bites and she looks at him like "what was that for?"

If I call him by name he stops immediately. He can tell that I'm upset but I don't think he knows why.


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

One last bump before I give up.

Something Baby does often when I am sleeping is that he will endlessly circle the cage looking for a way out. He wants to sleep with me, but obviously can't for safety and cleanliness on my behalf.

Since it's peak season at work; I am gone longer than usual. Christmas is almost here so the long days are almost over. I'm not sure if Baby considers me his mate, but I was thinking maybe something as simple as stress of me not being home could be making him act up, and he's taking it out on Flurry.

What got me thinking this is when I spend time with him, usually I can give him a gentle toss towards the cage or my chair etc. and he will be able to figure out where I want him to go and land there. Lately when I "toss" him, he just does a U-turn and lands on my head or shoulder. I don't know weather to take this as affection/attachment or him missing me and not wanting me to go.

This behavior has happened on occasion before peak season; but it's significantly increased as of late. Flurry is never harmed though; but I'm sure that she would appreciate Baby not biting her feathers. I just wonder if it is stress related due to my extended work days why he would act up in my presence, as every time I come home they are getting along just fine with no bitten feathers to be found.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

why not get them mates of their own kind...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

When the males are driving the hens to the nest to lay, they chase them and peck their backs, head, and neck.


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

@spirit wings
Yes, I am hoping to do that in the near future! I just want to be sure that I, and the birds are ready. They are my first pets and I've still had them less than a year; going from 2 to 4 birds I'm sure isn't too difficult but certainly a significant increase in responsibility! Also, I am hoping to win Flurry over before I get more as I would like to have good individual relationships with each of my birds!

Could it be that Baby has established me as "his" mate and therefore I am off-limits to Flurry?

@MaryOfExeter
So it is likely he is attracted to her? I am still not 100% on the genders but judging from their behavior Baby seems to be male and when I got Flurry at the pet store they said they only carry females but didn't know for certain if she was.

When he chases her he kind of stands tall as if he's going to bow-coo, but never actually bows or coos. Just bites 

So is it normal for males to be bossy in this manner?

Thanks for the replies!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Sounds normal to me  It is good that he isn't too agressive with the biting though. Some males can get really harsh on the hens!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yeahhh...sounds like 'driving' behavior...


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Riku540 said:


> @spirit wings
> Yes, I am hoping to do that in the near future! I just want to be sure that I, and the birds are ready. They are my first pets and I've still had them less than a year; going from 2 to 4 birds I'm sure isn't too difficult but certainly a significant increase in responsibility! Also, I am hoping to win Flurry over before I get more as I would like to have good individual relationships with each of my birds!


Sounds like your ringneck is ready for a mate, if nothing else. If you don't want to put a male with the diamond, put a female diamond with her (you can tell in the wild type color b/c the females are chocolatey colored while the males are silvery.) Get your ringneck a nice female, too, and get some introductions going--then they'll be ok. It's too dangerous to keep a little diamond hen in there with him being pushy. It sounds like you have two cages, since they used to live apart--just keep the diamonds in the smaller cage, and the ringnecks in the larger one. I have a similar setup in my home that works very well. 
If you want to win Flurry over, it won't work well while he is interested in any hen, including your diamond dove.


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Merry Christmas!

Sort've off topic, Flurry has been sneezing a little for the past two weeks but she does not seem ill. She is still full of energy and is not showing any signs of weakness or discomfort.

I haven't been too worried about it; except literally just now I heard her squeak in the middle of her cooing; almost as if her voice is cracking.

She's at least 9-12 months so she should be a full grown adult as far as I know; so I don't think it's her maturing further.

She just did it again; maybe cracking is the wrong word. It's hard to describe. If it were music, her coos are normally A,B,A,B (not the actual notes) as far as pitch goes. Now it's like A-C,B,A-C,B; like she's adding an extra high pitch note in between the normal pattern.

She's still cooing as I type this; sometimes it's normal sometimes it's the weird one. Am I just overly-worried and this is her experimenting with her voice/maturing or could she be trying to tell me she's not feeling well?

Thanks again for all your help.

EDIT: Her cooing seems to have gone back to normal, for now. Not what if anything was wrong, but I'm still a little worried. I adore my doves and it's their first Christmas; I just want them to be well and happy!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I can't claim to be an expert or anything--fairly new to this stuff, but has she heard any intriguing new sounds? My Edmund tried to whistle the first couple of times he heard me do it (I stopped whistling around him because he seemed so sad that no matter how high he cooed, he couldn't whistle--now I just sing to him.) His attempts at whistling sounded very unusual.


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## Siobhan (Dec 21, 2010)

I don't know if bird behavior is bird behavior regardless of species, but what it sounds like is the exact same behavior I've witnessed with my two budgies, male and female. Both are fully mature, but Bonnie is manifestly not interested in raising a family and Benjy is. He chases her around the cage and pecks at her feathers just like you described, until she gets fed up and turns on him, then he'll back off and find something else to do for a while. And one of my Quakers thinks I'm his mate and occasionally tries to, um, get romantic with me. LOL


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Well I suppose this happening recently is most likely a sign that Baby has fully matured. I guess I was just expecting to see bow-coo'ing and preening and did not realize feather biting was a normal sign of this behavior.

I inspect Flurry daily; no signs of injury and no feathers pulled out; just bitten from time to time.

Just out of curiosity; are they even compatible? I assumed even though they are both doves; the difference in size should make mating for them impossible...


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Not sure if you can change the thread title in this forum but I couldn't find a way to do it.

Anyways I think I'm just going to continue to post my questions here so I'm not spamming the forum with new threads.

Baby has been behaving better lately; I cant remember the last time he chased Flurry was.

I was just curious if there is an answer to this but when he sits/lays down he always seems to insist on putting is bottom/tail up against something.

When I'm in bed he likes to take naps on my chest, but before doing so he will always stick his tail in my nose or chin. He does this in the cage as well; he has plenty of space to face whatever way he wants but always picks a place where he tail is against the cage. Flurry does this sometimes too, but not enough to call part of her normal behavior.

I wonder if there is any particular reason for this? Perhaps defensive instinct to cover his back while is guard is down? Or maybe just being plain silly?


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

UPDATE:

So I got some cash for Christmas and ended up getting them a new cage more than double the size of their old one. It comes up to my chin standing up; and is now located in front of my glass sliding doors rather than small window giving them much more sunlight and a nicer view of the outdoors.

Today is the first time I saw them staring at each other; and as they slowly got closer to each other they started preening each other! Baby looked like he was taking small nibbles at Flurry as per usual (they haven't had any issues for a while since I last posted) and I was extremely surprised that Flurry was returning the affection!

Does this mean Flurry has accepted Baby as her mate? Is this normal for two completely different kinds of doves? I doubt they are able to have babies; but in either case I am quite pleased right now!

Now to win over Flurry myself. =/


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

> Does this mean Flurry has accepted Baby as her mate? Is this normal for two completely different kinds of doves? I doubt they are able to have babies; but in either case I am quite pleased right now!


Potentially, yes. All of the previous behavior suggests that this was what all this was leading up to. 

Diamond dove/ringneck dove hybrids have happened before, but it is ONLY safe when the diamond dove is the male in the pairing. This is not the case here. 

It would be _extremely dangerous_ for your diamond to mate with your ringneck. Not only that, it is not safe for them to be caged together. 

If they try to breed, he will be, well, too big for her. This could seriously injure her. After breeding, the male will be aggressive again in attempts to drive her to nest. This could *kill* a bird that is so much smaller.


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## Riku540 (Nov 4, 2010)

Ugh, I appreciate your advice. Now I don't know what to do.

They seem so happy together; I don't know if I could find it in myself to separate them after they have been together for so long.

I'll be honest, this was really not the response I was hoping to hear.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

The problem is that no matter how happy they make each other, if (as it appears they intend to) they become mates, the little one will be injured. 

You do have some options: 

You could put them in side by side cages so that they have some contact, but the diamond can't be hurt. 

You could also get them same-species mates of their own. The introduction phase with new mates can be a bit hard, but after a while they'll have good buddies their own size to play with.  For the diamond you could even get another female if you don't want to deal with finding diamond-dove size dummy eggs. 

Under supervision it might even be ok to let the two out once in a while together, but never without you watching. 

Don't feel so down about it. We just have to work out a solution that works for your situation and that of your birds'.


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