# i have a question



## saiwa (Sep 5, 2008)

i was wondering if you breed a roller with a tippler would their offsprings know how to roll or not?


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

saiwa said:


> i was wondering if you breed a roller with a tippler would their offsprings know how to roll or not?


As far as I know rolling is a simple recessive gene. I've been very very wrong before so don't take my word on this. Rollers and tipplers are not my expertisé. So if it is a simple recessive gene you can breed a bunch of half rollers half tipplers and if you breed them back to each other. You should get about 1/4 of their offspring that roll. Assuming it is a simple recessive mutation that info is right. If not; I'll look like an idiot. But I'm used to it by now.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't have much to back it up on, but in my opinion I think you'll most likely end up with birds that don't/hardly roll. I always had more cocky male rollers left over, that loved to pick out non-roller girlfriends. So I've had a lot of roller mixes. None of them rolled. The good thing here is, both tipplers and rollers are flying breeds. So unless you've got some lazy birds, they should fly. Then you'll see if they really do roll or not.


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## TheGame (Apr 17, 2008)

Don't do it you don't wanna mix the two diff types of birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your question.

Though, the birds are rollers/tipplers and definitely performing breeds, this is definitely a question dealing with genetics, so I will move your thread for better exposure.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*If Matt is right*

Then none of the crossbred birds would roll until the second generation. By breeding back to their Roller parents, you would get more Rollers than breeding them to each other, which is not such a good policy anyway. I don't know if it's a simple recessive or not, maybe Frank knows.

I do know this....Rollers have been bred with Tipplers and these modern crosses can roll very well. Bronze and probably grizzle were both bred into Rollers from Tipplers sometime in the early 1900's, around the 30's, if I remember right.

I also had crossbred Rollers and Tumblers many years ago and none of the first generation crosses ever rolled. Successive breeding back to the parents produced birds that rolled but not very well. It would likely take several generations to get them back to performing well but if the original Roller used for the cross is of exceptional quality, maybe it would be a shorter road.

Bill


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## saiwa (Sep 5, 2008)

thanks alot for the info.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*The use of Tipplers*

Tipplers were used to breed with Rollers, not just for colors but also for high flying and endurance. I've had both Tipplers and Rollers and never bred them together but I understood that it had been done many years ago for various reasons.

What I find is that Rollers with too much Tippler in them tend to fly too high to enjoy what they are doing in the air. I bred Fireballs into several other varieties of Rollers and while they were great Rollers, many flew too high and even too long. I had a couple that even flew over night. I can't be sure if the Fireballs were responsible for this super high flying or if it was other birds that I had with Tippler blood (bronzes and grizzles) that just carried the kit too high. It was interesting but seemed to defeat the purpose of having Rollers in the first place. Just my observations.

Bill


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I have bred rollers and tiplers in the past....someone said they don't roll as much, and thats true. These birds flew well and long, but rarely rolled.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*What we are talking about is high flyers and rollers and if one reads and studys high flyers one will find that most high flyers were bred out of rollers and those that rolled were eliminated until the they had a breed that did not roll.You see some people like birds that roll or tumble while others like birds that fly high and for long time like all day from early morning till early eveing.* GEORGE


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Yup, george is completely right. The main terms used for pigeons that are not homers, any show pigeons (fancies), is mainly high flyers and rollers. And theres a very good chance of both coming from the same family. I keep both, and my rollers actually do go up pretty high up and even my high flyers tend to roll every now and then. And they are pedigree and purebred. So its all possible.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Interesting*

Rollers and Tipplers are definately closely related but I guess I didn't realize how close. It makes perfect sense though and selection of high flying and performance or rolling separated the two.

If we go back far enough, all of our birds are related as all are from the Rock Dove or Rock Pigeon. Hard to imagine that some 800 breeds or so have been selectively bred from one source and with such tremendous diversity. I asked the question a while back if any other wild breeds of pigeons had ever been used to create anything that we know as a domesticated pigeon and the answer came back "no". There have been other domestications but none have gone into the mix that we know as pigeon breeds, only some doves such as Diamonds and Ringnecks and a couple of others. 

It is an amazing testament to man's ingenuity that so many breeds have come about and many more will appear over the years. All it takes is an idea and a breeder with some knowledge of genetics and alot of patience and a new breed can be created. There are already somewhere around 100 new breeds and several new genes have been identified since I began raising pigeons as a young boy. Fun stuff.


Bill


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