# WOODPIGEON FOUND, In Shock? Injured?!



## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

*HELP! WOODPIGEON FOUND, In Shock? PMV?*

My partner and i were cycling today and we noticed a woodpigeon sat in a field, very motionless and with his head tilted at an un natural angle.
This field is a regular dog walkers field, we passed about ten dogs and owners.

We approached and he didnt move when i tried to touch him he flew a good way,, attempted to land in a tree and went to the ground.
We ran over, my partner had to stop some dogs getting him.
He flew again, and landed, on the tarmac, each time he landed he had the same, not right, look about him. dazed, spaced out.
He let me get right up to him and throw my coat over him.

My partner cycled home quickly with him wrapped up, the pigeon was gasping, i know from previous rescues that woodys do not take well to being handled so we got him home and gave him some bachs rescue remedy.

His wings, seem fine, i had a quick scan for wounds, couldnt see any. He was getting stressed after we tried to pop his beak in water(didnt have any) so we popped him in box in quiet room.

I have not checked his legs yet, because he was getting so stressed and it was going to go bad ways.

Any idea what could be wrong with him.
Where he was sat there are often sparrow hawks? dogs, people?
There were three poops which suggested he had been there a little while to me...

Just need some advice really


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

also just want to add, there were no feathers on the ground, he doesnt seem to be missing any...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

He could be a young pigeon out of the nest but not ready to fly yet.. is there a safe tree you can take him to as close to where you found him.. the parent birds are probably out there .


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm quite familiar with Pigeons, he is definitely an adult!
He seems concussed, but was in the middle of a field. His throat is clear.
Thanks


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

mortimersparrow said:


> I'm quite familiar with Pigeons, he is definitely an adult!
> He seems concussed, but was in the middle of a field. His throat is clear.
> Thanks


I will take your word for it, if you know pigeons then you know the young look allot like adults when fledging the nest.

can you post a picture of him.?

he may need a bit of heat under the box, if you have a heating pad put it under the box with a towel in the box for him to sit on.

when you post a picture we can see what he looks like and go from there on what to feed him.. you can mix some sugar and salt in tempid water and dropper that in to him for hydration. hopefully a UK member will chime in so check back.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I will take your word for it,* if you know pigeons then you know the young look allot like adults when fledging the nest.*
> .


Its not a normal common feral pigeon though, its a wood pigeon, an adults plumage changes & has a white ring around its neck (much the sameway as a ringneck dove).



mortimersparrow said:


> I'm quite familiar with Pigeons, he is definitely an adult!
> He seems concussed, but was in the middle of a field. His throat is clear.
> Thanks


MS, as you know from previous experiance & have said, they do tend to freak pretty easily, so good to let him rest & calm down a bit.
Its possible he has maybe been spooked by a hawk or dog & maybe flew into something trying to avoid predation, then when hes thought it was safe to get home has run out of energy or the stress has brought on the symptoms & grounded him where you found him.
It could also be symptoms of PMV, however, If it is concussion, do not put him directly on heat. You could put a heat pad at one end of the box, but let him decide if he wants to go on it.
Keep him hydrated & calm, perhaps a dish of seeds in with him, but dont leave water just in case. His neck twisting could end up with his head in the dish & drowning.
Once he has calmed a bit, check his legs etc just to be sure of no injury.
Keep a close eye on him as regards temprament, fluffiness, movement etc.
As SW says, a pic would also help.
Also, Did the droppings you mentioned look normal ?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I said allot like.. not just like...


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I said allot like.. not just like...


But with wood Pigeons, they arent


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks guys, just to clear up i have rescued birds for many years now, he is a nice, good weight ADULT woodpigeon, he looks at least a year old.
This morning i have checked for leg breaks, he has been struggling which is a much better sign than yesterday. Legs and wings seem fine.

Unfortunatley i have had dealings with poor little pidges with pmv in the past, so when i got up and saw his watery green poops and his head tremor...

He/she is a physically strong bird, in terms of struggling to get out of my grasp, the flight even looked ok minus the landing attempts yesterday. The droppings today and the ones i saw yesterday didnt consist of much at all so she needs to be fed today, not taking corn or water willingly  The green poops can also mean she hasnt eaten in a while right?

I need a bit of help here guys i currently have seven other birds i am looking after at the moment, ranging from garden bird to ex battery hens...how contagious is PMV between different avian species?

ALSO...and most importantly, i live in York UK, closest rescue is Thrisk wildlife haven, have had success stories working with them before but i believe it is her policy to euthanize these kinds of patients, i had the same problem with people in shropshire, they are all scared to death of all their pigeons catching it.

I was going to make some warm mashed up food to get a bit of fluid, warmth and energy into this pidge...


A mistake i have made with woodpigeons in the past is that i kept checking them, i have left this guy totally alone as much as possible.

IN SUMMARY

green watery poops, no solid matter at all.

Legs, wings seem fine

Spaced out, wobbly head ---he is not circling, his neck is straight when he looks around, but has that typical pmv tremor

Has not eaten or taken any water

Bird is a good weight


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

MS, yes, green watery Poops can mean the bird hasnt eaten, and while we know it hasnt since you have had it, then this is a possibility.
A bird in stress can also have these poops (and as you know woodies stress very easily), so I wouldnt necessarily equate them to PMV, but you cannot rule it out.
As for rescue centres, sadly most do not have the time, money or resources to look after birds with these symptoms and yes, because of the increase in PMV at the moment, they do assume that PMV is the cause and either wont take them or have a PTS policy.
Its good hes not "circling" although not all PMV birds do this, and is also holding his head up well. 
I would assume in the first instance that the fact that he is a woodie is probably the main reason for the "tremor", and that he is maybe recovering from a concussion, or exhaustion.
As regards your other rescues risk, err on the safe side, Keep the woodie isolated from them, do not share any food/water dishes and wash hands thourougly before handling them. (normally better to deal with them first and the woodie last, as regards food & handling etc). 
Since there is no other treatment for PMV anyway (appart from supportive care) all you can really do is keep a close eye on him and watch for any other symptoms.
If he is not eating, it could just be stress and strange surroundings that is putting him off. 
As you say, with woodies its sometimes best to leave them alone.
Dont know what your setup is like, but if he can see out of his box/cage and get used to you "going about your business" without bothering him, he may settle & start eating, however, if hes not, he really needs to be fed (pea & corn popping is also a way for him to get liquid at the same time) or his situation will get worse.


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks guys, and thanks Quazar, this isnt the first time youve given e good advice regarding pigeons...

He is still alive, better state than when we found him yesterday afternoon, heads still shakey he isnt moving other than to struggle free when i feed him.
he isnt taking food or water himself, when i dip his beak he is not interested, i have been feeding soft peas and corn, dipped in water, his poops still have bits of green, hes been takin gmore and more peas, fed him 30 before bedtime.

Any ideas of how much water i need to be givin ghim and how


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi MS,

Good save again!!
Have just been catching up with your rescue story and pleased Woodies still with you.

As far as giving water goes, you don't really need to worry too much if you're feeding defrosted peas as he'll be getting fluids from these for now.

You say his throat is clear of signs of canker. I had one recently that a friend found in the park but that one was badly blocked up. Doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't got canker further down. Do you have any Spartrix tablets to give anyway as a precaution?

I know it's really hard to examine them especially when they're so agitated. Do you see any signs of feathers on it's back or around the underside of his wings having been disturbed, or signs of any puncture wounds.

I'd keep him as quiet as possible for now to keep the stress levels to a minimum. Leave seeds and peas scattered around him and see what things are like in the morning. Also definitely away from your other birds although not totally convinced it's PMV, best anyway not to mix them anyway when sick.

Keep us posted

Janet


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

thanks janet, i have had a good look, when feedin ghim to check his food has gone down ok, ill give him another check over but his feathers seemed ok...

He still seems very limp and dopey, other than when he struggles, when he does he seems very strong, but other than that he just seems limp and staring...

Ill check him over again tomorrow morning and post back...


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Also what are Spartrix and how can i get them


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Just fed him, he only had 25 peas but it is good he is swallowing them very well now, had another look down throat, looks nice and pink and healthy, but he is still not right i HAVE NOTICED he looks a little scruffy right on both shoulders of his wings, like he is missing some feathers, BUT not enough so you can see his skin, his head feathers look a bit crazy, fluffy too...but he is not missing any and he is definitely an adult.
I have checked both shoulder and back, no puncture wounds...
The mystery continues...


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Also...How regularly should i be feeding this little guy and roughly how much?
THANKS GUYS


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

It is very much guess work when the obvious ailments have been eliminated. Spartrix is a basic tablet form of treatment for canker that can be bought without prescription. It isn't quite as effective as prescription meds like Flagyl but I tend to treat any rescues with it more as a precaution if I'm not sure if it's present.
If you send me your address in a Private Msg I can send you a couple if you like.
It's good that the throat looks clear and healthy as Woodies do get bad canker and it's often the main thing that downs them like this.

Sooo.... what is wrong? May have had a run in with a dog if his feathers are messed up. Right now if there's a likelyhood he's been attacked he needs to be on anti-biotics asap as he's at risk of infection. Woodies feathers are so tight packed that its very hard to see through to the skin and it only needs to have been scratched to get an infection.

Can't remember if you have a friendly vet to ask for some. Sadly most wouldn't bother treating a Woodie if you took it to them but there are some exceptions.
Do you have any human anti-biotics?
I can send some but was thinking about the delay in getting them to you and the fact he may need some asap.

Sorry I'm out of the area all day today from mid-day so that's a pain as I won't be able to get anything in the post until tomorrow if I don't hear back before then.

As far as feeding goes, it's more random with adults. Youngsters need a regular feed but adults will feed when the opportunity arises outside so just leave food about him and pop him some peas when you're able as you are now.

Thanks for trying to help him, not easy birds but at least he's still with you. 

Janet


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

UPDATE
The bright green is not present in his droppings anymore, he can stand, head shaking seems much better though still not quite 100 percent, i have been holding the sides of his beak and he has been gaping for food, which i have never had an adult woody relaxed enough to do...
...Actually i think this might not be his first encounter with people there has been no gasping, just patience as i feed him,...he is still not having water though??? I have been making sure the food has been moist and snook some water in there too.
He nuzzles my hand but can not pick up food...except for long thin bits of carrot? and he has had four of these.
I have moved him somewhere lighter so he can see where his food is a bit better.
He has his white neck patched and is definitley an adult, maybe the shock of whatever has happened has made him a bit friendlier and dependant for the moment...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My avatar Littlewood suffered from concussion once , I think she may have been startled and hit the aviary roof. She needed hand feeding defrosted corn and peas and I had to support her neck to drink, it was a few days before she could walk and then fly. She is the case I wrote about on my *concussion web page.*


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks feefo, i am so glad it seems to be looking mroe and more like concussion and less like pmv, My woody was sat in a fiel with his head twisted but completely upright, we though he was a rabbit at first, with pointed ears...


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## mortimersparrow (Jul 10, 2008)

You know reading that has really (pardon my language) pissed me off
A while ago i was brought a blackbird who was in the condition described on the concussion pages, about two years ago.
I took her to the vet, without so much as a proper exam i was told her neck was broken and she was in agony and would die in pain and should be put to sleep.


Is it just me...or is it true that MOST vets have little to no idea about birds and various ailment possibilites and advise euthanasia most commonly over treatment.
It is disgusting, we have a vets round the corner from our house but we drive over half an hour to an exotic species specialist for out birds.
A vet who knows what they are doing is inspiring to meet.

Sorry for the rant, i just hate incompetence...when a life is on the line, and you are tricked into thinking someone knows what they are talking about.
Pigeons, garden birds, ducks...i have had success stories with each of these a few times after walking away from vets who wanted to ' put them to sleep'
It is so dangerous i wish more people knew about it


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## shrihari ramesh (Feb 16, 2012)

give the pigeon antibiotics.a dog might have tried to bite or its saliva might have entered.antibiotics kill bacteria which are present in an animal's saliva.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Same story as for feral pigeons with canker! I don't think vets learn much about wildlife and their injuries because the clients will be farmers, breeders and pet owners. 

We would never just assume that a person or a large mammal that was knocked out had a broken neck but people always think that birds that have crashed into windows or are knocked by a car have a broken neck and finish them off...I could never have done that but it wasn't until I read Beryl Chapman's booklet that I realised how common concussion is...when I read your post I found other sites that described the symptoms of concussion and based on what I read will expand my page.


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## ETphonehome (Jan 3, 2012)

Feefo said:


> My avatar Littlewood suffered from concussion once , I think she may have been startled and hit the aviary roof. She needed hand feeding defrosted corn and peas and I had to support her neck to drink, it was a few days before she could walk and then fly. She is the case I wrote about on my *concussion web page.*


Hi sorry that jum into the discussion, my hen is at risk of concussion she has flown twice against the windows at home although i took al precautions to avoid this puting her beak in all windows of the place to let her feel the glas.

in your page you mention Hypericum and Arnica and you say that both together also work very effectively as a pain killer . and you add that The 200 potency is necessary

I want to ask you if is it 200mg or something else and if you are talking about the Hypericum and Arnica used for humans that we can buy in natural stores.

Can Hypericum and Arnica be used in case the pigeon is suffering from pain due to other kind of illness or accident?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

ETphonehome said:


> Hi sorry that jum into the discussion, my hen is at risk of concussion she has flown twice against the windows at home although i took al precautions to avoid this puting her beak in all windows of the place to let her feel the glas.......


Feeling the glass wont help, from a distance to a pigeon, it is still an open space & it will try to fly through it if it can.
Try using some Ultraviolet Stickers on the wndow. They are VERY effective.
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/save-millions-of-birds-window-alert-invisible-ultraviolet-decals-warn-birds-about-deadly-windows.html
To be effective INSIDE the house, you will need to use a ultraviolet lamp, as the stickers work on ultraviolet reflection of sunlight, obviously theres no direct sunlight inside, so hence the UV light inside.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

mortimersparrow said:


> Is it just me...or is it true that MOST vets have little to no idea about birds and various ailment possibilites and advise euthanasia most commonly over treatment.
> It is disgusting, we have a vets round the corner from our house but we drive over half an hour to an exotic species specialist for out birds.
> A vet who knows what they are doing is inspiring to meet.
> 
> ...


When one goes to their Doctor (or GP) he does not always know everything.
Vets are like human Doctors & Surgeons, they can specialise in certain things.
The most common for vets being Household Pets or Farmyard Animals, or in some cases what is commonly known as "exotics" depending on where they are going to setup their practice.
Its not really incompetance that they dont know, its just not required that they need to know if it is not what they are specialising in.
I would however expect a doctor who didnt know enough, to advise & recommend a specialist who did.
Sadly there are a lot of vets who dont do this, and unlike Doctors or Surgeons, they do not legally have the obligation to refer, and often they do not have any knowledge of other specialists nearby that they could refer to.
Even Avian vets do not nessesarilly know about Pigeons & wild birds, as most of them specialise in "exotics" like parrots etc.


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