# When do I release this pigeon?



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

Hello all, and thank you for the support. We rescued what we think is a pigeon squab, from a cat's mouth, last night. "She" seems to be completely fine today, however, she appears too young to fly and does not seem to be eating. Can anyone confirm she is in fact a pigeon, and advise me on how to ensure she eats/drinks?

Thank you!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Looks like a fledgling dove to me and too young to be able to eat by himself. Have you checked for any injuries especially underneath the wings? Cat saliva is deadly to birds and even a tiny scratch will cause an infection and the bird will die. If he seems fine, you can put him back where he was found (just lock up the cat for a day or 2). His parents will be around looking for him and he's chances of survival in the long run will be better if raised by his parents.

If you see any injuries, he will need antibiotics. But first check for those injuries and then I will give more info regarding the antibiotics.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Thank you, Marina B*

Thank you, Marina B, she did have an injury on her wing where the cat had hold of her by its mouth, otherwise, we found no other injury. The holes in her wing now seem healed and she seems very healthy. She walks around the house, "talks", and flaps around a bit. I still haven't seen her eat or drink but she is passing stool (if that's what it's called with birds). I fear putting her outside as there are several cats around, none of which are ours so locking them up is not an option. She does not appear to have infection and it has been about 36 hours since the incident.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

She will need antibiotics for that injury, infection will set in. You can buy amoxycillin at at a pharmacy (drugstore) for humans. Get the 500 mg capsule and dissolve the contents into 5 ml of water. Now weigh the bird and give 0.12 mg of amoxy per gram birdweight. So if she weighs 150 g, you will give 18 mg of amoxy twice daily. So that will be 0.18 ml of your suspension. Also get one of those medicine droppers to accurately measure this amount. I hope all of this make sense. 

She may be passing droppings, but not be able to eat herself. Can you post a photo of the droppings? A perfect dropping will look like a raisin with a white dot on top. Starvation droppings are green and creamy, so if she's producing this then she's not eating. If not eating by herself, best will be to forcefeed her defrosted peas: 30 3 times daily.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Droppings*

Marina B, her droppings are green and creamy. I will buy peas immediately, and defrost them. How do I force feed her the peas and antibiotics?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Warm up the peas in lukewarm water. Now you have to put the bird on your lap facing to the right if you are righthanded. Keep him close to your body to restrain him and cover his body with a towel so that only the beak sticks out. Reach with your lefthand over his head and open his mouth. Now use your righthand to put the pea inside his mouth over the tongue and let him swallow. If he spits it out, then you are not putting the pea in deep enough. Seems complicated and the bird will struggle, but this will all get easier over time. They quickly learn to pick up the peas by themselves.

The meds you can put tiny drops in the front of his beak till he's had the whole dose. Just be careful that he doesn't aspirate. Otherwise deep down inside his throat past the windpipe. Sometimes if they are thirsty, I just hold the medicine dropper next to the beak, put a little pressure on it and then they suck in the meds by themselves. Thats the safest way. Give the meds twice daily (0.18 ml morning and again at night) for about 7 days.

You can also clean that wound with saline water and put some betadine on it.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Remember to weigh her, the 0.18 ml will be for a bird about 150 gram.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Weighing our rescue*

Thank you very much for the assistance! As we are on holiday I do not have a means of weighing her. Is there a safe dose I can give her without weighing her? As for the peas, am I to give her whole peas then? She won't choke on them?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

A fledgling ringneckdove (think that's what you have) that was caught by my cats a while ago, weighed 200 gram and I treated him with 20mg amoxy twice daily. So you will then give 0.2 ml of the suspension. Just remember to stir it well, cause the powder doesn't mix that well with the water. And put the leftover mixture in the fridge.

If the peas are to big, you can split them in half. They are quite nice and soft and goes down well with a dove like yours.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I hope you will be able to take the dove back with you after the holidays. You will have to keep him for at least a month or 2 before doing a soft release.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*amoxicillin*

We gave her peas, it was a struggle, but once they were in her beak she seemed to take them willingly. I am attaching a picture of the amoxicillin we have in the house at the moment, it is in Spanish because we are in Mexico, but you can see the mg's. How much should I give her? It came as powder and I mixed it with water as instructed.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B*

Also, how many peas should I expect her to eat at one sitting? We gave her about 6.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Peas*

Sorry, I just re-read you message regarding how much to feed the baby. I see you suggested 30, 3x p/day. We'll giver her some more now


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

There's no photo?


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Photo Marina B*

Oh shoot, I'm sorry, I'm sure to add it now.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is this in syrup form? If so, it might contain sugar which won't be good for the dove. Now if I'm correct in reading the label, 5 ml contains 42.9mg of amoxy? So this bird will have to get 2.5 ml twice daily which is quite a lot. The label is a bit confusing. Can't you rather get the amoxycillin in capsule form? Most pharmacies stock them and you will only need one capsule to treat the dove.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*amoxicillin*

Okay, I will go to the pharmacy right away, it's just i'm not sure they will give it to me without prescription. This one probably has sugar as it is for children. It came in powder form and I had to mix it with water.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Wound Photos: Marina B*

Also, the wounds look healed, or at least I can hardly see them anymore. I will attach photos from the moment of the incident to last evening, to just now. [/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B*

I got the proper amoxicillin and guessed her weight at about 150mg. We gave her .18ml (I hope she got it all).


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't understand the infection they can get from a cats claws or teeth, saliva. 
Doesn't matter how the scratch or wound looks. Cats carry a bacteria that goes into the birds system and can cause a bad infection inside. Often the bird dies from this bacteria. So any bird that has been caught by a bird should always be put on antibiotics to fight that infection. He could seem normal for a couple of days, then just get very sick and die. Too late to start the antibiotic at that point.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Jay 3*

Thank you, I've given her the antibiotic as instructed by Mariana B. I just hope she got it all as it's such a small amount and the struggle made it difficult.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*New Question re: rescued dove*

She appears to have a very messy bottom. There is a lot of the creamy green dropping, stuck to her feathers all around her bottom. Should I was her?


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*How do I tell if her crop is full?*

How do I know if the crop is full? Can anyone post pics of a full crop and an empty one? Please.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is a full crop, and it is flat when empty. Shows more on a young bird then an older one. You can feel it. Should feel like a soft bean bag. Not hard and firm.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Jay 3*

We are worried now because suddenly she has become very puffy with her feathers and appears to be sleeping. She did just start eating on her own, seed and water, for the first time! Could she simply be sleepy? I will take a pic and post it.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Is she okay?*









Is she just sleepy, or should I be worried?


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*another picture*

She's not moving much when we approach her but still taking seeds on her own.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She should be on a heating pad, with one layer of towel over it, and set on LOW. She may be sick or could be cold.
Hope you are hand feeding because it takes them a while to really pick up seeds and eat them on their own.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

We are in Mexico and it's not cold or breezy in the home. You said amoxicillin was crucial, and we did start her, but only a couple of hours ago, about 36 hours after the bite. Is this still within the window to stop infection, do you know?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can't really tell if she got meds early enough. Only time will tell. Even if it is warm there, a sick bird cannot control it's warmth, just like when you are sick and are chilled. It needs a heat source to keep it warm. Another way to get it into her is to make bread balls, and soaking up the medicine into the balls, then feeding them to her just like peas.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

Thank you, I was so worried about her. She seems okay at the moment, not super puffy, walking around, and still eating. Thanks for your support


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make sure to keep him warm, and he is fed enough, and he gets the meds.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Jay 3*

Thank you, I'm back to being very concerned. She's in a dark, warm,cozy place and sleeping. She doesn't really move at all when we check on her, even if we pick her up. She is still very interested in eating, but just seems very lethargic and wanting to sleep. I hope she makes it through the night.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Are you sure she's eating the seeds and not just picking them up and dropping them again? You can get her to drink water by gently dipping the tip of the beak (not over the nostrils then she can aspirate) into a small bowl of water.

You can also clean the bottom with a cottonball and warm water, just gently remove all the stuck poo. What does the droppings look like now after she's started eating?


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B*

Yes, Marina, she's eating the seeds. She will drink water if we dip her beak in it. I have a question now about how much water I was supposed to mix with the amox capsule. I feel like she became sick after we gave her the medicine.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is the amoxy capsule 500 mg strength? If you mix that with 5 ml of water, then 1 ml of that suspension is equal to 100 mg amoxy. 0.18 ml of the suspension will then be 18 mg amoxy. It's very difficult to measure the correct amount even with a medicine dropper, but I've never had problems under or overdosing and birds dying from that.

It's possible that she might have breathed in some fluid, hopefully not. Maybe try as Jay suggested with small pieces of bread and soak up the meds to give to her. Safest way of doing it, I will also rather try this method in future. As long as she's eating, that's a good sign.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B Jay 3*

Thank you, Marina and Jay, I will try the bread balls this morning, she made it though another night, yay! However, she is still very inactive. She's still eating, and talking, but not trying to fly or walk around. She's still a bit puffy, but preens a bit. She's pooping and her faeces are much more firm, totally firm in fact, I'm not sure she's getting enough water. She's eager to eat but not to drink.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

As long as she's eating by herself, she will be ok. Lets hope she gets better every day.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she isn't eating enough then she needs to be hand fed.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Thank you, Marina B and Jay 3*

We put her in her "nest", in a dark, warm, and quiet place, for several hours today. When we came in to check on her, she was out and walking around! Yay! Jay, she definitely seems to be eating enough, however, I'm not sure how much she should eat? It seems if I let her, she'll eat seeds all day. She still kind of puffs up and goes to sleep every 20-30 minutes or so, but is now walking again and even hopped up and perched on a boot! She is preening too. 

Thank you both for hanging in there with me as I go through this rollercoaster of emotion, I really appreciate your ongoing support and advice  

How much should I let her eat?

As I was typing this, she climbed up on the keyboard, I bet she likes the heat.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She is adorable, she really is.
Let her eat as much as she wants. Fill her dish and keep it filled. Remember that she must be kept warm as she cannot keep herself warm right now. Don't make it too dark, as they don't eat in the dark.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Jay 3*

Excellent, thank you, I'll be careful about having her in the dark too often. She really seems to be better this evening. Such a relief!


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear she is improving. Lovely bird!


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Cwebster*

Thank you


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

That's good news. So what are your plans when she's fully recovered? She will by then be still way too young to be released and might even be too tame for that.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

At this point I have no idea what will happen once she recovers and we have to leave town. Right now of course I am fully focussed on her recovery. Ideally, as much as we love her, I would like to see her released. If we were home, I would also love to see her go free, but would be extremely happy to keep her if she were too tame to release. However, since we are not in our home country and I have not been successful in finding a rehabber or wild life rescue, I am not sure what to do. Suggestions are welcome, please.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Will it be possible to take her with you when you go home? Then you can do a soft release from your back garden. She will need to spend time outside in an aviary for at least a month to get used to the area. Even when released, she will come back for food. The parents teach the young where to find food, so one can't just let them go and expect them to survive.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

I have to look into it, my understanding without further research is that she cannot be brought to Canada. I really have to figure this out.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Update on our rescue*

Here's Hope 6 days after the rescue and 4 days of amoxy (thank you Mariana B!). We are in love.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Gorgeous photo! So easy to fall in love with them. I really really hope you can find a way to take her with you.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great update. Glad she is doing so well.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B Jay 3*

I can honestly say, she would not be around without the two of you! I was completely lost for how to care for her and only knew we were desperate for her to survive. The two of you responded faster than any other resource we reached out to. Your advise was quick, determined, and from an obvious place of caring concern. We cannot thank you enough 

Mariana B, If we cannot take her, and we're looking into it, our Airbnb host said she will absolutely keep her, she has also fallen head over heels. Either way, Hope will be with people who love and really want her. 

Again, without this forum, and the two of you, Mariana B and Jay 3, Hope would not have made it.

Much appreciation,

Tina, Isabella, Liz and Hope.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Only a pleasure!!! Another thing, you can add some apple cider vinegar to her drinking water: 5 ml to 1 l of water. This will help get the good gut bacteria back on track after antibiotic treatment. Mix a fresh batch every day and continue for about 4 days after you've stopped with the antibiotics. Thereafter, twice a week in the drinking water and this will help her stay healthy.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*Marina B*

Great, we'll go out and get some apple cider vinegar. I'm a bit concerned about her drinking. It doesn't seem like she's drinking on her own and we'll offer her water with peas or seeds in it (almost like we're tricking her), and she'll drink a lot and very eagerly. Does that sound typical?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Tinasom said:


> Great, we'll go out and get some apple cider vinegar. I'm a bit concerned about her drinking. It doesn't seem like she's drinking on her own and* we'll offer her water with peas or seeds in it (almost like we're tricking her), and she'll drink a lot and very eagerly. Does that sound typical?*




That sounds ridiculous. Don't do that. She shouldn't have to go through water for her seeds, and will probably choke. She may be drinking enough and you just don't realize it. Just offer the water by gently dipping the beak but not over the nostrils. If she is thirsty, she will eventually drink.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

No, Jay 3, it's a few seeds floating on top to get her to dip her bill in, she has tons of food in and around her food dish. Once she goes for the seeds and realizes it's water, she drinks.


----------



## Tinasom (Mar 12, 2017)

*...and*

And she also has plenty of water, which I do not believe she drinks on her own, but obviously hope she does.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Gorgeous bird! Am so glad you saved her.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Tinasom said:


> No, Jay 3, it's a few seeds floating on top to get her to dip her bill in, she has tons of food in and around her food dish. Once she goes for the seeds and realizes it's water, she drinks.



If you just dip the beak in gently, she will realize that it is water. This works. She will then drink when she needs to.


----------

