# Hawk !!!



## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

Well, I had an interesting week with my pijjies last week. I took my birds out to fly, they returned home, but did not trap in immediately. They had been on lock down for many days because they caught a respiratory infection, so I would suppose they did not want to trap in for fear they might get on lock down again. (those goofy birds) so anyway I was doing dishes and watching my birds. All the sudden they just scatter every where and two flew to the window and were hanging on the screen. I knew something had just scared them terribly. I went out side to find a HAWK sitting on the landing board. All but 3 pijjies just flew away and were not seen for hours. I caught the 2 pijjies on the screen and found one in my dog house. They were just scared to death. I did not lose a single pijjie that day to the hawk, but it sure was stressful for them and me as well. I worried all day until my birds trapped in. I was so worried they would be attacked trying to come home. Needless to say, my birds are now on serious lock down until that hawk forgets where they are. I am worried he wont though

Tanya


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Tanya,

I'm glad none of your pigeons were harmed. They are most vulnerable from a hawk attack when they're hanging out on the landing board. I keep to this rule at all times: "in the air or in the loft". Unless you have peregrine falcons most pigeons can out-fly the other hawks.

If I may make a suggestion... keep them a little hungry for the next few days. Cut their feed by a .25 oz per bird or so. The next time you let them out have them very hungry. They might not fly much but when you call them get them to trap as fast as they can. I like to use one of those big plastic leaf rakes to "encourage" them to go thru the trap. Basically, you are retraining them but it will only work if they're motivated by their stomachs. Keep this routine going until you find the right balance of food and flying time.

You're right, that hawk will not forget and will be back - sorry!

Bruce


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

I do fear he will be back. All my birds are on lock down for a while. I just cant stand the thought of a hawk eating my birds. The day before this happened I thought I saw a hawk in a tree two houses away. I went inside to find my binoculars, but when I returned with them it was gone. The following day was the when the hawk landed on the landing board. That hawk flew to the back fence and landed then went to the same tree. I would imagine it was the same hawk from the previous day and I am wondering if it has been hanging out there for some time. I did lose a bird a couple weeks ago. It made it home but never trapped in, I know this because I had 8 in and could count 9 in the air, then only 8 trapped in. The one that disappear was my last white grizzle. I think it stood out and was caught. Now that I think about it, I have lost all the light colored birds. I think he has eaten a few of my birds, all the ones that stood out in the crowd. 

Tanya


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Zoo Keeper, 

It's a good idea to keep your birds in lock down for a bit. Hopefully this is a migrant hawk and is just passing through. If this is the case he won't stick around too long. If it's a residential hawk in your area, that is a different story. Hope it all works out.


Brad


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Tanya it's that time off year !!! sounds like a cooper and birds just hanging out on a loft are easy targets as they are mainly ambush hunters. They didn't trap because they weren't hungry and didn't have a reason to and having them locked down didn't have anything to do with it, what brings them through the trap is "chow time" and thier perch. Coopers have a hard time catching a bird that is airborn unless they are ambushed down low. This year up here I have had very few problems and plus I'm seeing some Dove around which is strange for right now, Doves take the heat off of me. I fly at least three teams of birds a day weather permiting.


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## Just_fledged (Nov 12, 2004)

*That's too bad.*

The local hawks got very interested in ours, and even went after them once. Subsequently, we don't fly them at all. They don't particularly seem to mind. I'm glad yours are alright!


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Hey!!

Hawks are people too!!!


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## Bird_girl(Ronni (Nov 29, 2004)

YEP! True...very true.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Good one, Zig! Yes, but why can't they just pick on rats, mice and other nasty critters - but, hey, they're people too!


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## Bird_girl(Ronni (Nov 29, 2004)

LOL! There is an owl that gets our mice on the porch and He landed right on our porch and we got a good look at him! HE IS SO COOL!


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

Zig, yes they are people too. I heard another pigeon flyer that uses a paint ball gun to scare the hawks away.  Hmmmm, now that could be good. They would not get hurt and would be color coated and I could give each one of them a name.


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## Bird_girl(Ronni (Nov 29, 2004)

*hehehehehehehe*

(lol!) :d hows about ROY.G.BIV?


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*I was bummed when I heard this...*

 

*NEW YORK (Reuters) -- He was a movie star who resided on Manhattan's tony Upper East Side, drawing a devoted crowd of followers who gathered daily to catch a glimpse of him.*

But on Tuesday, that star -- a famous red-tailed hawk known as Pale Male who built his nest above a cornice of an apartment building overlooking Central Park and was the subject of a documentary movie -- was evicted.

The nest where Pale Male and his companions had resided since 1993 was removed along with the metal spikes that provided support for the nest and protected it from the wind.

The action outraged bird lovers, including actress Mary Tyler Moore, who lives in the same building as the hawk.

"I am just amazed at the insensitivity ... of people who have torn away a nest that had been used for 10 years by an extraordinary red-tail hawk," Moore said.

Moore attributed the decision to complaints over "the occasional bird droppings" that the hawks produced.

The building's management company said of the nest removal, "It was a researched and thought-out decision on the part of the building."

Pale Male's unusual decision to take up residence in Manhattan and raise his young 12 stories above the park captivated bird watchers and inspired a book and a documentary film.

On Wednesday, Pale Male and Lola, his female companion, could be seen circling the building and bringing back twigs to try to rebuild the nest, which bird watchers said would be futile without the metal spikes to support it.

E.J. McAdams, executive director of the local Audubon Society, said he contacted the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to see if there was any violation in removing the nest.

A spokeswoman for the Fish and Wildlife Service said it had been contacted by the building about removing the nest.

"Our response to them was that removing a nest, if unoccupied by chicks or eggs, does not require a permit under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act," she said.

Pale Male supporters were organizing a sunset vigil outside the apartment to urge the building to restore the nest.

"Our goal is to get the nest back up," McAdams said.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Pretty sorry state of affairs... I saw the documentary narrated by Joanne Woodward. It was superb. I hope they restore the nest.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Sorry*



birdy said:


> Pretty sorry state of affairs... I saw the documentary narrated by Joanne Woodward. It was superb. I hope they restore the nest.


 I am sorry, but I have had two many of my birds killed right in front of me to feel sorry for a nest being moved. I personally had to watch a cooper tear the wing muscles with his beak, and eat one of my pigeons alive !! This is a family site, and a bird loving site, or I would tell you what you can do with that red tailed hawk !!

I have also had a Cooper Hawk enter my loft and kill and consume one of my babies !


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Warren why don't you tell us how you really feel  Around here I find the RedTails to be a benifit. My birds don't even react to them.

Personally the only thing that I see sad here is people stuck someplace like this and so starving for a touch of nature. The Redtail will find a new nesting spot easy enough, maybe they won't be able to get a 15 story stoop on a Poodle but they'll be fine.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I talked to a person just today. Last week he bought a cople of racing homers at a show auction. He had them isolated in a training pen. It had a trap on it. He came home from work saw the birds was dead. But the hawk was dead also. I guess it got in through the trap killed the birds. and died trying to get out.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Warren, I feel your pain. You're not the only one who has had their pigeons killed by hawks. I have held many in my hands with blood all over me while my pigeon gave its final breath. I've had coopers follow my birds thru the trap and kill birds. I doubt that you've ever had a racing bird killed by a red tail. But hey, they're just another hawk! Yes, thank you for sparing us you macho views on what you would do to the redtail.

Yea, Scott, the redtail will find a new nesting site easy enough. He's been at that nest for about 12 years, maybe more. Gone thru 3 or 4 mates and raised a number of young there. No big deal! Maybe you could let me in on your meaning of "people stuck someplace like this and so starving for a touch of nature", and why it's so sad. Thanks.

Bruce


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Bruce it is meant as it is worded, nothing bad, its just that around here if we have a vigil it is due to a high school kid drowning or something like that, not something as silly as this, I just don't get it. No Bruce I see it as no big deal at all, the RedTail will adapt to a new nesting site because that is what they do. The only ones that will have a problem are the people that enjoyed them nesting where they were. But a whole new set of people will be able to enjoy them where ever they end up,which won't be far because they are territorial. Around here they nest in the big Bull Pines which like to fall over once they get so big, also Eagles or Great Horned owls will also take over their nests once in a great while. They just move thier nest to a different Bull pine. no big deal


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Tanya, hawks are a huge threat during the winter months. Each pigeon keeper has to decide for him or herself if free flight is worth the risks, and you've been given some good suggestions for discouraging hawks. But if you can't bear seeing your pigeons killed, I'd recommend keeping them in for the winter. 

We gave up on flying altogether after losing pigeons to Cooper's hawks and having some harrowing near misses. The hawks are most abundant during the winter months, but they are here anywhere from the end of July to May and it's impossible to know when it's safe because you don't see them until it's too late. I've had a Cooper's sit on the ground right in front of our loft and stare at my pigeons. 

I don't recall what breed you have. If homers, they are strong flyers and have a better chance of outflying the hawks. We have rollers and they are easy pickings. Also, I've noticed that homers, being the athletes they are, seem to miss free-flying more than other breeds.

The Cooper's hawk's primary diet is birds, not rodents. Hawks have to live too, but I'm not about to let them feast on my pigeons.


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

Well, my birds are on are lock down right now. I am just not feeding the hawks. Since they are on lock down it was a good time to give them their vaccines. 

I have homers and I can see how much they are disturbed by being on lock down. They have so much nervous energy, they stand by the exit door from the loft and shake like they are cold....my poor babies.  But at least they are safe until the hawk moves on.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Zookeeper,

I don't recall, but I don't think you home your birds. Maybe you could start training them to home properly and take them on test flights once every couple of days. You'd have to get them trained first to fly straight home and trap right away. At least this way they could get their vital time out in the air and exercise without being at direct risk from a hawk attack by just hanging around your property.


Brad


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

*Hawks aren't so bad*

...to follow up on this thread, hawks aren't as big a problem as you might think. There are only a select few species of hawks that will readily attack pigeons. Coopers are the main concern in north america as already mentioned. Red tails don't pose much of a risk to pigeons because they are mostly small rodent eaters and slower flyers. They won't waste the time to fly a pigeon down because they are lazy. There are kestrels here, harriers, osprey, broad winged hawks, swansons, red shouldered hawks etc....all of which mainly don't eat birds. The kestrel will attack smaller birds however, like sparrows or robins but are still mostly mammal eaters. The sharp shinned hawk is a smaller but close relative of the coopers and will also attack pigeons, but it's a smaller and lighter bird than an average pigeon so it won't attack them unless pressed. Peregrine falcons are becoming more common in larger citys however due to reintroduction programs to reinstate them into the wild. THESE hawks are deadly to the pigeon population. Peregrines reintroduced to cites mainly stick to that area though. These hawks seemed to have evolved explicitedly to hunt down and kill pigeons due to their equally superior flying skills. Still, they are an exception to the hawk "rule" of what will be the cause of pigeon fatalities in urban settings. 



Brad


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Tanya,

I don't "keep" birds or actually have a loft...I just feed a large feral flock everyday. When hawks are not around, the birds will eat and then relax, loll around and sun themselves all spread out on the roof of my garage or house. I love watching them...it's reminiscent of some of those resort postcards that show hundreds of bathers sunning themselves and frolicking on a beach!
But when hawk season is in full swing, this discontinue this....they eat and then move to and hang out on the many telephone and electric wires between the phone poles all along the street. I beleive this is to be more on "alert." They are able to have a clear 360 degree view all around them and ready to take off immediately if a threat appears.
I understand and appreciate everyone's opinions concerning PaleMale. City people sometimes take delight in having a touch of nature in their midst, as Scott, I believe, said. I just get annoyed when people pick and choose what their touch of nature should be. If that were a pigeon nest, you think people would be standing vigil to save it? Also, people who put out bird feeders and are just thrilled when a cardinal or bluejay shows up, but get all upset and chase poor pigeons or sparrows when they try to eat too. Don't get me started....LOL....a personal peeve of mine.
Tanya, I think Bruce's suggestion on the second post of this thread is the best if your birds are really stressed from not flying. If you let them out hungry, let them fly a few loops for exercise, then start shaking the feed can, they should come right in immediately. I know you would still be taking a chance, but that is something I guess that is for you to think about and decide.
Good luck,
Linda


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Trying to be a bird lover...*



re lee said:


> I talked to a person just today. Last week he bought a cople of racing homers at a show auction. He had them isolated in a training pen. It had a trap on it. He came home from work saw the birds was dead. But the hawk was dead also. I guess it got in through the trap killed the birds. and died trying to get out.


 It is hard to appreciate these birds, when they end up killing and eating your pets. But, from a racing pigeon stand point, I have tried to use that to my advantage. If you are at my house on race day when a bird comes home, you never saw a pigeon dive so fast to the landing board and inside !!
Same way on training around the loft, when I open their door they are gone, and when they are finished, they are in !!! No sitting around waiting to be dinner for my resident Cooper !! Gawd I hate him, and admire him at the same time !! A pure 100% killing machine !!!!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

hi Warren, 

Although I sympathize with your situation, I must say (proudly for the pigeons), a coopers hawk is a opportunist hunter. It has speed granted, but any healthy racing homer can out fly one. Coopers are snatch and grab predators. They are stealth hunters relying on ambush as their means of attack. I once witnessed a coopers stoop down on a couple of mourning doves in my backyard. In an instant, the doves took flight and mourning doves can fly about as fast as any good racing homer and almost as soon as it started, it was over. The coopers admitted defeat. Within 50 yards, he knew he'd never catch one of those doves and disengaged pursuit. Like you, it's a catch 22. It's hard to witness a hawk attack one of our birds, but on the other hand, pigeons have evolved remarkably well and adapted to be the "gazelles" of the bird world. VERY few other birds can touch them. Of course i'm talking mostly of the fine racing pigeon or even the feral because those birds are WONDERS on their own


Brad


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I managed to see a cooper hawk for the first time up close from the window, they are beautiful birds on their own but like many of the other member mentioned the pigeons are quite fast and can get away. 
This cooper pinned down a large male in the parking lot and many feathers were scattered everywhere but in one move from the hawk the pigeon managed to get out from under him and he was free.. I see him around now and he is perfectly alright.
As for the cooper I haven't seen him around anymore but they are good at maneuvering, I've seen the way his wings move and it's quite amazing.

At the moment we have lots of hawks passing by in the area, different types but the pigeons (ferals) really seem quite safe so I don't feel so bad about it.
If you have homers they should be able to fly just the same or faster.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Since your pigeons are homers I can understand why you don't want to keep them in indefinitely. Training and conditioning, as others have said, should "hawk proof" most of them. We have an acquaintance who flies his homers all year long and though he loses some to hawks, most of them become savvy and very fast. Flying them hungry and training them to trap in immediately are key. 

It also depends on your environment. We have a lot of large trees in our neighborhood where Cooper's hawks can hide out and attack our pigeons. But if you have a more open area, your pigeons can see the hawks coming and it's easier for them to get away.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Lin, 

Just to interject on your thoughts about bluejays or other birds "Scaring" the pigeons away....I have to say that our fine feathered columbiforms can take care of themselves I've also witnessed blue jays in my backyard trying to take over the bird feeder. To my surprise and delight, I saw the resident mourning doves be the aggressors.....heeheheh. I was proud of them for being so bold. In fact, the mourning doves were the most aggressive of all the birds visiting the feeder. I've always maintained, and believed: pound for pound, a dove or a pigeon is a capable defender of territory or feed. They lack the sharp bill to jab advasaries, but they make up for that with wing slaps and swift movements


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Birdmoms right location and the surroundings have a lot to do with how big of a problem you have, I live on the upper portion of a hill, around here its dotted with scrub Oaks and the birds have a good view. The only time I really have a problem is once a Cooper figures out that the plan of attack is down my drive way and up and over the house. It's rare that I loose a seasoned oldbird as they have gotten smart to the ways of a Cooper. I know other that live in towns and generally are surrounded by large trees. They get slaughtered and have no choice but to lock down. On top of it they get hammered by many different Coopers. Up here it's a lone Cooper or a pair. Once the Doves show up in early Spring to prepare for nesting no more problems. This year hasn't been bad at all as far as flying for me. Another thing is generally around here once a Cooper takes down a bird the pair of RedTails that own this hill is on top of them in a heartbeat to take it away. Sometimes this gives the bird a slight window to excape as the Cooper flys off and the RedTail lands next to the bird, if it's close the bird near allways flys towards me and I'm able to break the concentraition of the RedTail and the bird is able to make it to safety. This has happened more than once.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Brad,

Actually, I was talking about the owners of the bird feeders trying to scare away the pigeons and sparrows....discouraging what they consider the common trashy birds from feeding...but welcoming cardinals, bluejays, etc.
I know what you mean about the bluejays...they are nervy! Sometimes I put peanuts on the back porch for the squirrels and especially for my one white feral "Peanut" pigeon, who practically knocks on my back door to announce his arrival and to "place his order." The bluejays seem to like the peanuts too, and I have heard and observed a few small tussles over the spoils. I've never seen the doves being aggresive; they appear to be such a gentle, mild-mannered type of bird, it must be a treat to see them "step up to the plate." 
Yes, they can all take care of themselves pretty well, I guess that is why they are such surviviors, no matter what is thrown at them.

Linda


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Pigeons sure give as good as they get. I've seen a pigeon at my local wildfowl reserve beat up a Jackdaw (small Crow-like bird, bit bigger than a pigeon) over food, and take on Rooks.

Couple of summers back I was amused to watch one of the ferals standing his ground over a pile of corn, against three Mallard ducks AND offering them wing slaps 

I think pigeons actually have little concept of their size relative to other birds or even humans, even though they seem to have instinctive recognition of aerial predators.

John


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Actually Warren if I'm going to have a problem as far as predetors I'll take a Cooper any day, most are dumber than a doorknob when it comes to catching pigeons that are smart to them, plus the smaller males never seem to really smarten up, around here I find that when I have a Coop move in they have to "learn" how to work the birds. Some do and some don't,some try and then just leave never to be seen again,others stick around and learn the ropes. I've had them give up on the pigeons and just chase my Bantams around on the ground as they are scooting under the loft. On the RedTail note, some will actually learn how to hunt pigeons and become very deadly on them up high, a pair will normally work as team ,one high and one low, the high one will stoop on the birds out of the sun like a Falcon and they can be relentless,they can get very very good at it !!!! Around here they have plenty as far as natual food supply and I have never had a problem other than a youngster snatched out of a tree here and there the first time out before they know how to land on the loft properly.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Cooper Strikes Again !!!*

I like to know where these dumb, slow Coopers live !? Not at my house !! Not even an hour ago, I had my birds out for the first time in almost two months. While I was in my loft, my birds went crazy flying into me, the walls, etc. I looked on my landing board, and there was a Cooper with one of my birds. By the time I could get out of the loft, he was gone. I ran around the side of the house and there this hawk was, attempting to kill my "Miss Pulaski". 

The hawk flew up to the fence the bird got loose and is now under my unfinished construction project where I can not reach her, She is hurt and bleeding. This bird flew in all kinds of races and did very well, so please don't tell me that pigeons can outfly a Cooper and avoid injury because Coopers are dumb, and only dumb slow pigeons get caught !!!

I am surrounded by trees on all four sides, and some of the postings here make it sound like it is rare to lose a bird to a Cooper. Do you have any ideal how sick and angry I am right now !!!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

God, Warren, I am so sorry for you and Miss Pulaski....this thread has been an interesting topic for debate, but talk is cheap sometimes, and when something "real"
like this happens, I can well understand some people's attitudes towards the hawks.
Yes, they are majestic, yes, they are just doing what they are supposed to do when they go after pigeons, etc., but when it is one of -your- birds, a bird you care about, it hurts. Philosophical debate about hawks goes out the window, and hate and anger toward the hawk is only a natural reaction.
I hope you are able to get to Miss Pulaski to help her. I am so sorry for you both.
Linda


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Warren trust me when I tell you that I know how you feel. What is around you is what is going to determine the Coopers odds as some areas just make it too easy. Like I mentioned I'm on hill and this country is is dotted with scrub oaks, and it is somewhat mountainous , thats a big difference than a yard surrounded by trees. Are you saying that a Homer can't outfly a Cooper in the open ? My money says that your problem is when they are low and coming in on the loft. That is when they are most vunerable even under the best of conditions. What would you rather have, a Falcon or a Cooper ? Your bird is still alive !!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Killers On The Loose*



Motherlodelofts said:


> Warren trust me when I tell you that I know how you feel. What is around you is what is going to determine the Coopers odds as some areas just make it too easy. Like I mentioned I'm on hill and this country is is dotted with scrub oaks, and it is somewhat mountainous , thats a big difference than a yard surrounded by trees. Are you saying that a Homer can't outfly a Cooper in the open ? My money says that your problem is when they are low and coming in on the loft. That is when they are most vunerable even under the best of conditions. What would you rather have, a Falcon or a Cooper ? Your bird is still alive !!


 To the best of my knowledge, I have never lost a bird once it was up above the tree tops. Coming in to land, taking off, or somewhere in between is where they can be hit. Today my Miss Pulaski was sitting on the landing board where she is somewhat enclosed. By the time she may have seen the Cooper, she panicked and went to the side of my landing board / flypen. She was trapped !!
This Cooper lives in my neighborhood, and has already gotten an attack on my loft down to a science. Cooper or Falcon ? I don't know, would you prefer to die by hanging or firing squad ? If it ends up killing a pet I have had for three years, will it make me feel any better ?
According to the local game warden, this Cooper now can be classified as a "Nuisance Hawk" which is killing family pets, and has lost it's protective status. Any reason why I shouldn't place a $500 reward, "wanted dead or alive" price on his head ? And put posters up ?


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## Bird_girl(Ronni (Nov 29, 2004)

Well the owl that lands on our porch always hears our doves. He stares in our window! He looks so evil when he does that! Other than that he is really cute!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Warren, I'm so sorry to hear about Miss Pulaski. I hope you will somehow be able to get to her to give her medical attention. Do you think you might be able to lure her out with food? 

My experience with Cooper's hawks has been that they are fast, efficient killers. The guy we know with homers, who lives about half a mile from us, is also a falconer. He told us he has seen Cooper's hawks hunt his pigeons in pairs. He always loses some birds to them. 

Anyway, the falconer told us of a method to trap the hawk. You take a wire cage and cover the top with loops of fishing line--I seem to remember seeing this on the Net somewhere but I can't remember if it was this forum or another. You weight the cage and place live bait in it to attract the hawk. He uses quail. Make sure it's weighted so the hawk can't fly off with it. The hawks comes down to get the bait and gets trapped in the fishing line loops. You can then relocate it. 

We actually tried this because we were so sick of the hawks coming after our pigeons. They had figured out our loft was full of plump, domestic pigeons and weren't about to leave. The falconer gave us a couple coturnix quail to use as bait. The problem was, the quail went nuts and scratched themselves up in the cage. The hawk didn't show up but the quail were a bloody mess and I couldn't stand that. I gave up on trapping hawks, nursed the quail back to health and eventually found a good home for them. And we quit flying our pigeons.

I've since talked to other people who raise rollers in our area and they said that they lost pigeons to hawks almost every time they let them out. I feel for you guys with homers, though. If you're going to race you have to fly and train them, and they really seem to miss free-flying when they're kept in. Perhaps if you keep them in just through the winter months? I don't know how negatively this impacts their training, though. I suppose it's like an athlete who has a long way to go to get back in condition. And of course if they aren't flown, they are at more risk from hawks because they're not in top condition.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Where is Miss Pulaski ?*

Just to give you an update. I stopped trying to get her out from under a 12 x 33 unfinished (maybe never finished ) loft. She had already undergone what must have been the most terrifieing experience of her life. I just had to run an erran, and I thought that perhaps when it got dark, I could crawl under with a flashlight. It is muddy under there and only about two clearence. 
When I got back, there was a cat under the loft but no Miss Pulaski. I searched and searched, I went back inside to make some calls to round up a rescue squad. When I returned outside, there was another, different cat on top of my loft !!!  

Last I saw of Miss Pulaski, I could see she was bleeding and injured, perhaps this sent out some kind of signal to predators in the area ? I am going back out with flashlight to look in vain. She now had two cats a cooper out stalking her, I guess it was not our day.  

Thanks for letting me vent. I had her for three years, and she wasn't even to have been out of the loft, it was an accident. She hadn't been out for months, and I guess she could not resist when the door was left slightly ajar.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

The Hawk,then cats, bad day no doubt. Sounds like the local warden can help you get what you need permit wise to deal with the problem as far as trapping it. Many states allow you to deal with such problems with pet,poultry and livestock protection on a local level but the Federal migratory laws over ride the State laws. Do you have plans for a Swedish Gosshawk trap ? When ever they are this bold they are fairly easy to catch. Once they have a plan of attack pegged that works for them they can become a nightmare. Like I mentioned earlier for me it's up the driveway and over the top of the house as soon as the kit is below the line of sight of the driveway. Once they learn this life can get rough around here, the house breaks their momentom some and that helps. I had a female a few years ago that could hunt them high or low. She was like the witch from Hell !! luckily the majority of them that I see "around here" don't get that good, plus I suspect that my local RedTails play a benificial part as it is really hard for anything around here to happen without them knowing about it. The Coopers end up loosing most of thier meals here.

PS I would take the fireing sqaud


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Warren, 

I'm sorry to hear about Miss Pulaski as well, I hope she turns up tomorrow somewhere, maybe she'll find her way back to the loft. I'm sorry as well that I made it seem like coopers hawks weren't a concern to pigeon folks. They are definitely a worry. I was just relating my own personal experience with them as well as going by things that I've always read about them. Again, I sincerely hope she turns up and you can help her.


John, I liked your story about the pigeons and jackdaws/rooks and mallards.LOL. I can just see this in my minds eye and that would be so interesting to see in real life. I wish we had jackdaws here. As you know I'm a corvidae lover as well. I'd love to see the interactions between the pigeons and the jackdaws. I've seen a few pictures of flocks of pigeons and jackdaws intermingling together and I bet some interesting things happen.



Brad


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## Bird_girl(Ronni (Nov 29, 2004)

I am so sorry for what happened to your dear little bird. I would track down that cooper and show him what i am made of. Whats a cooper anyway?? Seriously! I would track him down!!!!!!!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Hawks have made a come back. Since they have recieved federal protection. Now they do what they do best in greater numbers. Lofts that race around here. Started haveing cooper hawk problems about mid October. They are visited about once a day. I see a cooper hawk about one time a week. But I do not fly any more. There at first the cooper would land and sit right on the loft. But has not done that for a while. In the wamer months Kite hawks return. They help keep coopers and such away. And never harm pigeons. Coopers hit better on sitting birds. Then on open flights where they can chase them down. They will land in a tree out of site and just wait for a chance. They wont care if some one is just a few feet from a bird to hit it. Very bold hawks. From Oct. to march. They hang around. Then there gone . The problem is they are coming back at a good rate. and . other the trapping them . Flying has to be adjusted. And that has to changed every so often. Semes like when the birds get up make loops of the loft. The old hawk sees them from a ways off. And then he moves in. Lock down or adjusted flying are about the only chances to reduce loses.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Robert, I'm glad that you mentioned kites. They come soaring thru here, too. Sometimes there will be a dozen or more. Very graceful birds and big wingspans - 3 feet. They eat flying bugs I've read. I didn't know that they helped with keeping the coopers away. That's good. I know crows and ravens can be a menace but they chase the coopers when they come around here. When my purple martins are here in the summer they help the cause, too.

Bruce


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

Well, I have seen a few hawks since my landing board hawk, but none right here at the loft. My birds are still on lock down. Poor babies. I actually took advantage of this time of lock down and got all the birds vaccinated for pox, PMV, paratyphoid and salmonella. 

Kite hawks. I have never heard of those. Do they chase pigeons as well? Could those be the one I see just gliding around?


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

A Cooper hawk visits here EVERY day. They are very smart and swift through trees, around the aviary and over fences etc... It's a good thing that I don't let my birds out. 

My leftover seeds get dumped in my backyard for the wild Doves. If I ever get a place in the country I would keep the tree population down, and not dump my leftover seed in my yard. By attracting wild Doves I have also attracted the Cooper hawk. 

I'm sorry to hear about Mrs. Pulaski. Although all hope seems lost there is a chance she took off with the little energy that she has left and she could make it back to you. 

Julie


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A kite hawk will go as far as sitting beside a pigeon and not bother it. When they move in the neighbor hood most other hawks will get chased off. I have about 4 that stay around all thru the spring and summer. leave say end of september. Never bother . Wish they could winter out. But they have to move on for the food supply. Yes crows and even blue jays will chase hawks and owls off. I have about 6 little owls in the summer. Pretty tame. they are no bigger then a bob white quail. come about 6 foot from me and will screech and look. follow me from tree to tree. They come out just right before. dark. Have a fox that comes and drinks from the gold fish pond. Its a LITTLE SHY. But it will come on up to about 25 foot from me. Now a fox if they can get to the birds will eat one. But they roam at night so no bother to me.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Found this for a Cooper's Hawk...

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i3330id.html

... and this for a Red-Tailed Hawk...

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i3370id.html

... but couldn't find any pics of a Kite Hawk?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> ... but couldn't find any pics of a Kite Hawk?


There are three or four Kite links here:

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/infocenter.html#Accipitridae

Terry


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

TAWhatley said:


> There are three or four Kite links here:
> 
> http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/infocenter.html#Accipitridae
> 
> Terry


Oh... he he... _Kites_... now I remember...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Miss Pulski Lives !!!*

Tonight I searched the neighborhood, searching in vain for what I thought would be remains and no luck. I then went into my loft and I caught movement out of the corner of my eye...Miss Pulaski is under my one 6x8 loft ! No way to get to her, only about four inches of clearence at most in some areas. Of cource she would go under there, that cats can't follow her !! 

It is dark now outside, and I have very limited visability, but at least for now she is alive !! I don't want to start digging her out now, for fear I will simply take away her only security in my yard ! 

For now there is hope !


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is so great, Miss Pulaski is alive. Poor little thing she must be terified.
Could you possibly give her some water?
Hope you can get her in the morning. Please keep us updated.


Reti


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

SFL,

That's good news. I hope she stays put over night and that you can catch her in the morning. If it were me, I'd be up before sunrise planning to get her before it gets real light. Again, I hope you're able to catch her in the a.m. and nurse her back to health.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Good deal Warren !!! it sure is a good feeling to get one back under these circumstances


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## pigeon george (Aug 7, 2003)

*red tails welcome here*

on a clear day as the red tail flys by he seems to say im a hawk your a flock of pigeons so ill take a swipe at you guys the birds seperate than group right back up and fly over the hawk and he just goes away. mr cooper on the other hand well i consider myself luckier than most as living close to the bay come duck season the shot gun blast keeps the coopers away all month i do feel sorry for the ducks and secretly hope mr cooper is mistaken for one heh heh heh


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Warren, I'm so glad you located her. Please let us know if you're able to get a hold of her tomorrow.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

George thanks for the good chuckle


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Warren,

Wow, so great to know you located Miss Pulaski....high hopes and best wishes that this has a happy ending.

Linda


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Great News !!!!!*

The good Lord, who guided Miss Pulaski (by the way Pulaski, Va. is a 296 mile race station here) home from many a race, guided her past a Cooper Hawk, and two hungry feral cats, and safely back into the loft !!!

When I got home from work today I was so happy and surprized to see her in the loft !!! I carefully examined her, it is only minor injury, and I kissed her and cried !!! A grown man of 50, Viet Nam Era Vet, crying over the safe return of a pigeon !!!!!!

Merry Christmas !!!!!!! She will never be subjected to that mean hawk again !! She is retired to my breeding area, and protected in my wire aviary. Needless to say, It is a great day !!!!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Ps*

All my attempts last night and early this AM to catch her were in vain !! All I managed to do was get a lot of pigeon poop on me !!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Praise God!! Warren, I'm so happy and excited for you!  I have cried tears of relief myself when a beloved pigeon I thought lost to a hawk made it back into the loft. Miss Pulaski definitely deserves a peaceful retirment.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Warren,

I am so happy for you....it sounded so hopeless in the beginning. Such great news is wonderful to hear.

Linda


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

SFL,

Have you managed to catch Mrs P yet???


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Miss P, I will have you know !!*



ZigZagMarquis said:


> SFL,
> 
> Have you managed to catch Mrs P yet???


 She got her self out from under a loft, and manged to get back into the loft on her own !! Thank you very much !!!! The injury looks pretty minor considering the hawk carried her off the landing board and around the house, and had her in his grips for a good 30 seconds !!!
Oh, and did I forget to mention, that she was on the ground for two days avoiding very bad putty cats !!!!


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*Miss P... sorry, my bad*



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> She got her self out from under a loft, and manged to get back into the loft on her own !! Thank you very much !!!! The injury looks pretty minor considering the hawk carried her off the landing board and around the house, and had her in his grips for a good 30 seconds !!!
> Oh, and did I forget to mention, that she was on the ground for two days avoiding very bad putty cats !!!!


Do you have her in isolation now?? I hope her wounds are minor. Pretty amazing, really. Will she become a prisoner now?? ... just currious.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*In Retirement*



ZigZagMarquis said:


> Do you have her in isolation now?? I hope her wounds are minor. Pretty amazing, really. Will she become a prisoner now?? ... just currious.


 Zig,

Prisoner sounds like such a harsh word, I prefer to call it breeding retirement. After this experience, I don't think I could bring myself to expose her to these dangers again. 

I cleaned out her wounds and...gawd!  putting her on antibotics for a good week. I keep going out to check on her, to make sure this was not a dream. I was convinced she was a gonner.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Zig,
> 
> Prisoner sounds like such a harsh word...


Well, you don't have to go putting a little ball and chain around her leg or anything...  


Anyway, hope she fairs well in "breeding retirement"... the nothing to do, but hang out in the loft and "have sex" sounds pretty good  , but then you'd have to also go and "raise kids"...


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Or you could think of it as "protective custody". So glad she made it home! Seems like you do a great job of watching out for your flock!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is great news. I am so glad Mrs. P. is home safe and sound.

Reti


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

So glad to hear your pij made it back safely! : )


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

It has now been over 2 weeks and I have not seen that hawk again eye balling my birds. They have been on lock down ever since I had the hawk visitor. I was all excited to try and color coat it with a paint ball gun.   Not to mention I wanted to get a picture of it. I am sure that pest will be back the first day I let my birds out to fly


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Amazing pictures Arty! I'm sorry the little jay lost its life, but I do understand that the hawk has to eat too. 

Terry


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