# Need help!!!!!



## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

Hi. I found an injured pigeon few minutes ago. It has broken its wings (the bone) by crashing to a fan. It is a baby pigeon flying 1st time today. I am watching him from when he was an egg. His mother is so confused. Please help me. Tell me how to heal it or tie it. I'm just a 16 years old boy, not a doctor. But I cant let it die like this. Please please please help me. Reply as soon as possible. Pleaee


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Our pigeon Phoebe had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated from flying into a fan but needed surgery to fix it. Am not sure how severe your birds wing break is. There is a post here that shows how to fix a broken wing. AndreiS? I think you posted this. In the meantime can you gently catch the poor thing and put it somewhere safe in your house with food and water? It needs to be safe from predators.


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

I observed the wing now. The carpal joint is broken. Is there any way by which I can fix it? And also tell please what do they eat? And thnx cwebster for reply


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

First of all if it is bleeding, it should be stopped. If injury is severe he may not be able to fly again but for now saving life is important. So just tie something around or press by your hand to stop bleeding . Give some warm sugar water and keep him in some box after he seems settled , he shouldn't be allowed to flap his wings else the injury will be open again and may bleed to death. So don't panic him, just tie him coving his both the wings so he couldn't flap them and try to stop bleeding first.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I have sent a message to one senior member to ask for inputs on how to get the injury fixed. Seems he isn't bleeding now. You can get some wild bird mix for him from any pet store if you can else whatever grains you have like peas, lentils, corns, wheat, barley, canary seeds, sunflower seeds, safflower seeds etc and give it to them.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Need to know firstly his age, the wing will be secondary to feeding this bird and hydrating it. Any idea of age? If older than 30 days and you have seen it eating on its own with no parents feeding it, that would be a bonus and make your life easier, otherwise email me at [email protected] and I will send videos on how to feed.

Now if u have him secure in a box, you will need some type of wrap, some type of tape to gently fold the wing in its natural position and tape it to its body. As kiddy said you may tape both wings against the body, and here is a funny tip, u can use a large tube sock or a baby onesie to gently put over head like a sweater and that will hold the wings in a normal position. Then he will need to be put in a type of nest or small shoe box so he doesnt struggle for flap around. For now if u have nothing, gently wrap in a towel and place in box.

Most important to keep warm, watered, fed, in that order. Send me email to help.

Here is a video of taping a wing, can be done with materials on hand if u dont have sticky tape. Wait for page to load then the video will load after a few seconds, will find u a simpler one as well.... They tape the wing first the wing to the body.


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=D712BFD0D94797ABD087D712BFD0D94797ABD087


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks kiddy and CBL please reply me on my email id...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Getting the wing taped up into a more natural position is important, as it may alleviate some of the pain it is going through, with the wing being supported in a more natural position.
How old is he? Possible to paste a picture of him?


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

He is almost a month old jay. But looks like alomst a mature pigeon And I cant paste a picture of him because he is so scared of me and I dont want him to hurt himself in the attempt of getting away from me


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

taran said:


> I observed the wing now. The carpal joint is broken. Is there any way by which I can fix it? And also tell please what do they eat? And thnx cwebster for reply


Here is a guide teaching you how to specifically imobilize each bone from a bird's body so look for the carpal bone:
https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf


Don't trust the videos teaching how to imobilise broken limbs, they are mostly wrong as they apply the same types of bonds to any kind of fracture, when instead differentiate approach is necessary. As a result, the bone is probably joining odd in most cases, leading to a disabled for life bird, which cannot fly or walk.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You cannot even be sure what damage is done exactly to what bones without an x-ray. So immobilizing the wing in a normal comfortable position is probably the best you can do, without a vet. It will heal as it does, and he may never be able to fly well, if at all.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> You cannot even be sure what damage is done exactly to what bones without an x-ray. So immobilizing the wing in a normal comfortable position is probably the best you can do, without a vet. It will heal as it does, and he may never be able to fly well, if at all.


The guide also teach you how to identify which bone is broken, or if any bone is broken at all, in a very elaborated and detailed manner. Making such assertions show you not even have thrown a look on that material, which is written by the ultimate specialist on the matter. Yet, you try to impose your simplistic assumptions and this way you throw the forum members into confusion, making them ignore this extremely precious source of information.

For this reason, I will make a sort of summary of what this material contains. Is the second time you try to minimize the importance of this text and I feel forced to make such a presentation of it to convince forum members of its utility. Someone with the real intention of helping birds and bird rescuers not only that would not ignore such a resource but would recommend it as often as possible. 




The title is _SPLINTING AVIAN FRACTURES_ and the author is Rebecca Duerr from the International Bird Rescue Research Center, Cordelia CA. 

It is an extensive text - 27 pages - containing * tons of secrets and valuable knowledge *that you can't find anywhere else, a real treasure, with many hints useful not only for caring fractures, but generally caring bird with various issues. This ofcourse is the result of experience with hundreds or thousands of birds from various species over years.



The material contains:

- a glossary with complicated vet jargon terms

- a detailed guide for general recommendations about examination and evaluation, treating (splinting) and controlling the splint in the afterward period 

- a list of prognoses with the chances of healing of different bones

- a detailed guide for the examination and identification of possible fractures, with lots of clear illustrations for each particular bone, showing the way the bird's body must be hold, manipulated, palpated.

- a detailed guide about the way the wing, leg or other parts of the body must be imobilised, differently function of which bone is broken. Again, with lots of clear and useful illustration, including illustration teaching you how to craft the splint

- an useful presentation of the dosage of calcium supplementation for birds with fractures


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, are you aware that you are answering the post of a 16 year old boy? Who is not going to be able to tell exactly what bones are broken where? Even people who keep birds would have a hard time knowing all that was going on without x rays. If it were possible, a vet would be the best bet. Without that help, then a basic wrap to try to hold the bones and wing in the correct position is what is needed.

You say that it is the second time I have minimized this text. Well, it's probably the 4th time that you have minimized the videos that our members have posted to try to help. 
Actually, the video that CBL posted was a good one. A large hawk, so easy to see and understand. No one is going to get it by the text, as it is just far to complicated to try to figure out which bones where, and how to wrap.

Even when vets wrap a break, the bird often doesn't ever fly well again. Takes a lot of know how. The poster would do good to watch the video that CBL posted, and try to copy the figure-8 that they do. At least get the wing up in as natural a position as posible, and hope it heals that way.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If both wings don't need to be taped, you are better off not taping both to the body. It helps their balance, and not so confining. Also be very careful when you do go around the body and under the other wing, that it isn't too tight around the crop. If both wings have been damaged then you will have to wrap both.
Self adhesive bandage with some stretch to it works wonderful here, but I have no idea of what you have to use there.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Andrei, are you aware that you are answering the post of a 16 year old boy? Who is not going to be able to tell exactly what bones are broken where?


He asks to teach him how to save the bird, not how to damage him. Doing what you recommend means the bird will be condemned to the ground for the rest of his life.



> Even people who keep birds would have a hard time knowing all that was going on without x rays. If it were possible, a vet would be the best bet. Without that help, then a basic wrap to try to hold the bones and wing in the correct position is what is needed.


Again, nothing justify the kind of advice you give because is harmful to the bird. It will make the bird unable to fly for the rest of his life.




> Well, it's probably the 4th time that you have minimized the videos that our members have posted to try to help.


Not only I minimized but I'm going to minimize them everytime they are recommended, as they bassically teach how to damage the birds. They are made by iresponsable people.



> Actually, the video that CBL posted was a good one. A large hawk, so easy to see and understand. N


You seems to think any video tutorial from the web is made by someone with some level of expertize in the field. Is not. There are thousands of crazy people on internet making thousands of crazy videos presented as specialists' advices.



> o one is going to get it by the text, as it is just far to complicated to try to figure out which bones where, and how to wrap.


Guess what, that text was not made for nobody. Neither was it made for specialists, like vets. Is not academic communication but popular science, addressing amateur rescuers like me, you or Taran.



> Even when vets wrap a break, the bird often doesn't ever fly well again.


This is the anecdotal fallacy, giving examples of some isolated cases as proofs that the occurrence is a widespread problem. Ofcourse there are cases where, with all the rights procedures applied, the bird cannot be saved for a normal life of flight. But in man y or most cases, the recovering is possible. 




> Takes a lot of know how. The poster would do good to watch the video that CBL posted, and try to copy the figure-8 that they do.


Again, this means the destruction of bird's future. It will be a home bird and the rescuer (taran) will have to spend lot of time caring him, ofcourse if he doesn't decide to get rid of him.


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

You guys are just confusing me. I neec to know that :
1. How to make him eat something because I've never seen eating by its own. His parents were bringing food to him. So how to make him eat?
2. How to wrap the wings? Should I have to wrap both the wings or just the injured one?
3. Is there any way to feel him comfortable with me bcoz I want him to know that I'm helping him?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

We NEED a picture so we can determine age and method of feeding and YES you HAVE to feed him asap. So for now put some warm water in a bowl, put 1/2 teaspoon of sugar in it and then dip the birds beak in it so he can drink, keep the nose out tho. Not knowing how old or how developed I will take a stab at it. If you have frozen veggies, thaw them in hot water only, then take one at a time, of peas or corn and open beak and put it in the mouth at the back and he will close beak and swallow, do this 30 times so he gets a total of a mixture of 30 kernals. No need to give water after that as the veggies have enogh in them. Do this 4 times a day for now. Go read my post and send me an email picture of this bird. My email is there, so copy and paste and send a picture if you want more help.


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

Ok CBL. I'm sending you image of him at [email protected] .com. Please check it asa you can n tell me more feeding details


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, You have no idea what you are talking about. The figure 8 wrap can work, and has. A novice is not going to be able to figure out all the bones without the help of a vet, who even need the x-rays to be able to see every bone. This is not damaging the bird, and I wish you would stop saying that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL please post the pictures so we can all see the bird. Thanks.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

taran said:


> Ok CBL. I'm sending you image of him at [email protected] .com. Please check it asa you can n tell me more feeding details


Sorry Taran, typeo, my bad, [email protected] I missed the N between the two works, so try again. [email protected], all small letters tho.

In the meantime look at this video and do the same put one pea or corn at a time util the crop looks a bit full and round. About 25 to 30 peas ok. It is so late here I can barely keep eyes open, going to bed now, try this video and feed baby. I need your email to send u video of pouring seeds into mouth, faster and easier as well followed by a drink of water. Again, send me pics now of bird to see age ok. I will check as soon as I wake up.

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/jXnYzgSX8Jg


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

There are worse things than having a home bird. Phoebe had a broken wing so was not releasable but seemed to have a happy life and we dearly loved her. Hope that you can try taping the birds wing following the video here to the best of your ability. Thank you for helping the little guy!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Well I spent the last 45 min trying to uplaod a few feeding videos to youtube for the general public but for the life of me it wont take it. I GIVE up. Im going to bed and hopefully Kryz can help me in the am.


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## taran (Jul 8, 2015)

CBL check the email n reply me please. Meanwhile can anyone tell me how to tie his wing in figure 8?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

One of my rescued hens had a broken elbow joint (a fracture about halfway down the wing) with her tail pulled out too. I had some medical tape and taped the wing back in a natural position. She healed and has been flying well for three years. Its not quite a perfect set, but she has a mate and mainly likes to be in the nest , cuddling him, or eating anyway.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Taran, Aren't you able to upload a pic here? If not send me at my email id, I will do it for you. Sending you pm.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great Bella!!! hope something works in this case too.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Kiddy! 
Thanks! Things like bad breaks are not my forte, but I've rescued many pigeons with leg breaks and elbow breaks. Usually they needed a month or so to heal. I've never had problems with them when I taped the legs or wings back in place. If the bone breaks the skin, I carefully put back in place and use betadine. 

I think pigeons are good healers, I've seen them heal well from horrible stuff like their crops being ripped open by a hawk and large punctures through the wings, like gun shots. My main dominant racing pigeon, the king of my coup, was the one with the gun shots all through the wing.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Seems I have to ask many things here Bella. 
Will ask shortly. Was a bit busy right now, just came back to upload a pic Taran sent. Pls throw some light on this too, bird is in great pain. 

Taran, This pic shows the broken wing is at other side so can't be told what part is broken.

But yes as you have put it in nest so have a close watch if parents are not feeding him you will have to force feed him. 
Can you manage to get defrosted frozen green peas easily available at food stores here? 

If yes here is the method how to do it:

If you need to feed peas/corns to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed. Start with about 30 defrosted and warmed peas. Warm, not hot. Do that maybe 3 times a day, but let the crop empty between times.

If you don't get frozen peas, you can soak yellow dried peas in warm water and use with the same method. 

If you get frozen ones, you will have to thaw it under warm water to get it at normal temperature before feeding, it shouldn't be hot or cold. 

Remember feeding is very necessary for him else he will starve to death. 

By the way where are you from? I am from U. P just in case if we live nearby.

P.S this pic shows he should be weaned by now and must not be on parents most likely. So more chances are you will have to feed him. If they feed, it is well and good. 
Thanks for the pic.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Here is a printscreen from that guide about the splinting of metacarpal bone:


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I think it is beyond his scope and he put the baby back with the parents whether it gets fed or not, its a matter of time that he falls from the high place and breaks the other wing. I told him to find a wildlife center or google breeders in his area that will help, but to no avail, this baby has less than zero chance of recovery unless someone even takes him to vet for humane euthanasia instead of him dying a slow starving death or getting ripped apart by a predator. I sent him 3 videos on how to even just tuck the wing in for now and get that baby fed. Seems like he is not understanding, how to do it, or even wants to try. Hopefully he will take my advice and find it help elsewhere. He said he tried to feed it one pea at a time and could not. EVEN if wrapped in a towel in my videos. I think its a matter of being bothered and not wanting to try. Too bad for this little guy. Can anyone there in india help out, go get the bird, google indian rescue places and post for the kid?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

There are no rescue centres in India, no rehabs as well and even more frustrating no avian vets as I know. 
I asked him if he is nearby I can take this bird, but no reply. May be Jass could be of some help if he is in that area or Naresh. I know only three Indians here but still don't know where does Taran belong.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well that's sad! I think your video of the hawk being wrapped was very good. He could have learned by watching that a few times. At least it would have been put in a more natural position. I'm sorry, but I believe that Andrei's infor is just too confusing for most, and they get overwhelmed by it. The simple wing wrap (figure-8) makes more sense, and can be learned more easily. Making things too overly complicated for someone who is trying but isn't that knowledgeable about birds, just scares them off and they give up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Agree to disagree.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Kiddy, have to add that when people post videos which clearly show someone how to wrap a wing, and he comes on and states that the vids are useless, and that the advice will damage a bird beyond repair, that he is not being usefull. If he wants to add the link then that is fine, but he shouldn't be telling the poster that the figure 8 wrap is no good and will damage the bird. He is telling the poster not to listen to anyone else but himself and his opinion. And he is wrong. The figure 8 wrap is useful and easy for a beginner. And it can save the birds flight.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

taran said:


> CBL check the email n reply me please. Meanwhile can anyone tell me how to tie his wing in figure 8?


Taran I SENT the video of the hawk being wrapped did u not watch it? Just have someone hold the bird on its back as they are and then wrap as u see them wrapping, cant be more obvious than a how to video?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> Kiddy, have to add that when people post videos which clearly show someone how to wrap a wing, and he comes on and states that the vids are useless, and that the advice will damage a bird beyond repair, that he is not being usefull. If he wants to add the link then that is fine, but he shouldn't be telling the poster that the figure 8 wrap is no good and will damage the bird. He is telling the poster not to listen to anyone else but himself and his opinion. And he is wrong. The figure 8 wrap is useful and easy for a beginner. And it can save the birds flight.



I agree with Jay on this AND Kiddy BUT that said, Jay, you choose to say the vet figure 8 wrap is good and Andrei should listen and not discount that and I agree but then you your self discount the vets direction for me to use probiotics WITH meds that DID work, so it looks like more than one personn is picking and choosing when to listen to a vet and not, so we are all guilty of it 

Anyway, I agree with kiddy too, the info he send is very helpful, I saved it and I like it BUT Andrei, you cannot say a VET is wrong when in surgery he is wrapping a wing and that is the DOCTORS way of doing it and correctly I might add. I think we are all getting caught up in being right and not focusing on what we can do to allow this kid to make a difference. I beleive Jay is right, he is too young even tho he claims to know what bone is broken. His maturity level may be that he is too overwelmed with trying to enact any repair, so again. I asked him to please find a vet, and I know there are vets in India, there is no way there are no animal doctors in the entire country, I find it hard to believe, even a backyard surgeon or a pigeon breeder or anyone close by that can help this kid and this bird. I simply dont beileve it.

Kiddy consider having this bird overnight shipped in a box to your house as your brother being a doctor may very well be able to stabilize the bird and you feed it. Courierrs will do this, even drive the bird to and fro. I paid a friend to drive 2 hours to pic up a bird for me. Do you have this opportunity? I would help pay any fee if reasonable. Let me email Taran again and see if he will tell us his location.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is not only about how to wrap, but about how to craft the splint, which is very important, and several other details.



Jay3 said:


> Kiddy, have to add that when people post videos which clearly show someone how to wrap a wing and he comes on and states that the vids are useless, and that the advice will damage a bird beyond repair, that he is not being usefull.


First of all, the CBL' link is not to a particular video but to a search web page where she typed "how to wrap a broken wing" and got a list of videos, apparently none of them with wrapping of a wing but some music videos, cooking videos and so on. 

So Jay, you neither opened CBL's link, you assume it was with a wrapping tutorial, but it wasn't. Here is her link:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=D712BFD0D94797ABD087D712BFD0D94797ABD087

And Jay, if someone post a video about how to wrap a broken wing, he may know or may not know what he does and says. If is a trustful person, a vet or experienced rescuer, the video may be considered useful but even then you should be very careful as even a vet may be wrong. But when CBL posted (some months back) some video from youtube with a teenager (younger than Taran, if I'm not wrong) who gives no info about her credentials, then a reasdonable person would ignore such a video.





> The figure 8 wrap is useful and easy for a beginner. And it can save the birds flight.


In some cases, yes but the 8 Figure wrap can be applied in many ways. Is necessary for the person doing the imobilisation to know well the bone anatomy of the wing, leg or other part of body to be imobilised. Then, function of the zone of the bone where is the fracture, a specific type of splint and a specific wrap must be applied, ofcourse, after puting the twop bone segments in the proper position.

Wraping without repositioning the bones, even if the wrap is correct, means the bone will join wrongly and the bird will remain flightless.

Wrapping using a wrong splint means the bone will not join, or will join wrongly or the splint will affect the skin, articulation etc causing pain and / or destruction of tissues.

Wrapping using a wrong wrap means in most cases the bone will join wrong, or not at all, like joining a neighbour bone, or joining the other segment but in an unwanted angle, or with shortage of the bone and possibly wrong in other ways.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Just my two cents, Taping works better for beginners. With bandages, birds can get them off easily and then their feet stuck in them , making the bandage a hazzard. i do agree the figure 8 bandage is ideal though.

Wrapping the wing with tape in Andreis's diagram has worked for me, but the wrapping needs to go all the way up the wing towards the head, past the break. If put on the end part of the wing only like in the diagram, the wing continues to droop and put pressure on the break.

It doesn't have to be perfect. Its ideal to get it right like a vet would, but I know many wild birds with former elbow breaks who fly just fine. ..they are all kinds of wild birds like crows, magpies, pigeons, who I couldn't catch. The main thing is this wing needs to be wrapped, it will never fly bent like it is the photo.

About feeding: It is old enough to eat small seed, but needs you to peck the seed with your fingers (like a pigeon would) to encourage it. In an emergency, you can make little bread balls mixed with water and yogurt, small enough to drop into the back of the pigeons mouth while you gently hold the beak open. Its not ideal, but may save his life if he's starving.

Its a beautiful little chick, you guys are so wonderful with caring so much and trying so hard to help.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL said:


> I agree with Jay on this AND Kiddy BUT that said, Jay, you choose to say the vet figure 8 wrap is good and Andrei should listen and not discount that and I agree but then you your self discount the vets direction for me to use probiotics WITH meds that DID work, so it looks like more than one personn is picking and choosing when to listen to a vet and not, so we are all guilty of it
> 
> Anyway, I agree with kiddy too, the info he send is very helpful, I saved it and I like it BUT Andrei, you cannot say a VET is wrong when in surgery he is wrapping a wing and that is the DOCTORS way of doing it and correctly I might add. I think we are all getting caught up in being right and not focusing on what we can do to allow this kid to make a difference. I beleive Jay is right, he is too young even tho he claims to know what bone is broken. His maturity level may be that he is too overwelmed with trying to enact any repair, so again. I asked him to please find a vet, and I know there are vets in India, there is no way there are no animal doctors in the entire country, I find it hard to believe, even a backyard surgeon or a pigeon breeder or anyone close by that can help this kid and this bird. I simply dont beileve it.
> 
> Kiddy consider having this bird overnight shipped in a box to your house as your brother being a doctor may very well be able to stabilize the bird and you feed it. Courierrs will do this, even drive the bird to and fro. I paid a friend to drive 2 hours to pic up a bird for me. Do you have this opportunity? I would help pay any fee if reasonable. Let me email Taran again and see if he will tell us his location.


I don't know about any overnight shipping here, there is no service like this in India.It will take at least 2 days and the bird will die. If he is nearby, I will pay the charges for pick up but then I should know where is he from? Since he hasn't replied to my mail or post on it I know nothing about his location. 
If you get any reply on it, do let me know, I will figure out if I can get the bird.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL, Your vet may advise giving the probiotics during treatment. Some vets do not. So when I give my reasons why I don't, I am not taking away from what your vet and you believe. I am saying that I don't and my vet didn't. I also said everyone does it differently. There are probably just as many on each side. So one has to decide for themself.
That is not the same as Andrei coming in and saying not to watch videos, and that it is bad advise that will harm the bird. 

And Andrei, you are wrong. I did watch CBL's video and it was a good one. The link brings you to a page with different things on it, and one of them was the wing wrap. The wing wrap is the one that opens up if you give it a few seconds. Maybe you should try the link again?
You also said that it all depends on whether the video was done by someone who knows what they are doing. Don't you think that CBL would first check out the video to be sure that it was done properly. She would not just post any link without first watching. I know that.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> CBL, Your vet may advise giving the probiotics during treatment. Some vets do not. So when I give my reasons why I don't, I am not taking away from what your vet and you believe. I am saying that I don't and my vet didn't. I also said everyone does it differently. There are probably just as many on each side. So one has to decide for themself.
> That is not the same as Andrei coming in and saying not to watch videos, and that it is bad advise that will harm the bird.
> 
> And Andrei, you are wrong. I did watch CBL's video and it was a good one. The link brings you to a page with different things on it, and one of them was the wing wrap. The wing wrap is the one that opens up if you give it a few seconds. Maybe you should try the link again?
> You also said that it all depends on whether the video was done by someone who knows what they are doing. Don't you think that CBL would first check out the video to be sure that it was done properly. She would not just post any link without first watching. I know that.


Thanks Jay and you are right, I research and post after I see it, I too thought it was straight forward. U are also right, "more than one way to skin a cat" Good to post all info and hopefully one or many of our ideas will help 
Thanks for sticking up for the humble pigeon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL said:


> Thanks Jay and you are right, I research and post after I see it, I too thought it was straight forward. U are also right, "more than one way to skin a cat" Good to post all info and hopefully one or many of our ideas will help
> Thanks for sticking up for the humble pigeon.


I have had other videos on wrapping the wing, but the one you posted is actually the best one I have seen. I know you would never post any video unless you had viewed it first. I actually copied the link to share if ever needed. So thanks.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Anytime Jay, happy to help and share


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok Taran emailed me this....

I lives near patiala, punjab. And yes it is at hight. But it is his nest. He is there from when he was a kid so I dont think he will fall from there. But I have not seen his parents feeding him so I will take him inside now. If you can find someone who can take the bird from me and care better, that will be really good.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Taran, thanks for continuing to try to help the bird. He is lovely. If I were closer I'd be happy to adopt him. Hope kiddy or someone may be able to take him in. In the meantime if you can just protect him from danger and maybe put corn or peas, softened, in his mouth that might keep him going or find a local vet who might be willing to,wrap or tape his wing and not charge, out of the kindness of their hearts. Am impressed that you have continued to try despite all the disagreements here. We all love pigeons so much and I hope everyone can keep cooperating to try to find a solution to help. Kiddy, is tarans location far from you. I don't know India. Are there any other breeders who might live closer to taran, anybody know?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

From me he is 1000 kms.but I think he is a bit closed to Jass. I have messaged Jass just now to know his location and distance from the boy . Let's see what he says.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Kiddy, great advice. Please post it until all have it ingrained in their being.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thank you. Yes I will...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

So these are some more pics, Taran sent. I hope if anyone of you is awake but since it is night there, less likely. 
I am in touch with Taran now. Able to show him videos on handling, feeding and fixing the damage. 
Since it has been raining there he isn't able to go out to bring bandage and medical tape but he will do as soon as the rain stops and fix it I really believe. 
I am sharing these pics in case any of you see them before fixing it, you can give some more ideas. Also will hawk method or figure 8 is good for this broken wing? 

Secondly as there is wound so it is prone to bacterias/ infection and he says it smells bad so I think we should treat him with some antibiotic like cipro to not develop any bacterial growth and worsen the wing?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL : Taran was not able to download and see your videos as they were in. mov format which his mobile doesn't support so he wasn't able to do anything but now he will and i am not giving up on him.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

He probably won't be able to go to get bandage and tape as it is raining heavily there so wanted to ask should we use some cloth torn like bandage strips and wrap him or should we wait till tomorrow and the wound will not be worse? 
I think we can wrap him at least temporarily? And what about the wound?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Kiddy ,thats great work.

For the wound, something topical will do. Can he get iodine or betadine where he lives? For a wound like that its worth diluting some iodine and pouring all over the wound. It will sting a bit but kill all the germs. Ask him what his family use for wounds and what they have. ?

Sometimes clothing, like the leg of womans stocking cut off, or a sleeve of a childs shirt, can be enough to wrap the bird. Make a tube short enough for the head and tail to poke out. Cut some parts out for the feet to poke through, and secure with safety pins or similar, making sure the broken wing is supported adequately. The tube will need to be quite tight for the night so the bird doesn't get out of it.

Any chance of getting it food of some sort? That is urgent too.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Bella_F said:


> Kiddy ,thats great work.
> 
> For the wound, something topical will do. Can he get iodine or betadine where he lives? For a wound like that its worth diluting some iodine and pouring all over the wound. It will sting a bit but kill all the germs. Ask him what his family use for wounds and what they have. ?
> 
> ...


That is the exact video I sent Taran that he cannot open, Kiddy I cc you the videos at the time, are u able to open and send to him in a different format, also I said if he gets that peice back iinto the right place to actually tape or clue the primaries of each wing together at the ends. Even pin them with a metal clip, or cloths peg, saying cloths peg so u get an idea of how to hold them together at the ends. That way one wing holds the other in place. Dog breeder do that to keep ears tucked or taped with glue or tape. Hes gonna need meds and the bird may even need that part amuptated. Not very hopeful that the wing or bird can be saved unless it is either cut off before smelly infection goes systemic. Looks like to me that the bird was attacked, if you look at the wing further down by his side, there looks to be a hole there withing the feathers as well, he should examine the bird for a secondary injury.

Can he get antibiotics, he is 16 dont forget, and not sure his family will spent money for it, why cant anyone find a breeder or rescue near by? Kiddy u said tons of people have pigeons and fly them, someone has to be able to help them.

Someone else mentioned that he could try going to a vet and say its his pet that got attacked and maybe they will tape the wing for him. He could at least call and try, free to ask right. I wonder if he called a local vet and said it was a shcool classroom pet that was attacked by cat when a student took it home, if they would at least look at it and tape wing for free for him??? U never know. As a courtesy for the school.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Im asking if Kryz can change video format for me. What device does he have?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That wing should really be removed. Tacking the primaries together won't do it as there is just so much damage. It needs wrapping to support it. It has to be so much more painful hanging down like that. Some support would help. And getting infected. Wish he was near here. Unfortunately, not much time left to do something. The bones will begin healing that way. Actually, I'm not even sure just how attached they are to the shoulder, from the pics.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I sent him a private youtube link on how to wrap with a pullover sock type thing for now to just get it from being backwards at the VERY least. I beleive it needs to come off at this point and the other thing is will HE be able to keep it as a pet. Not sure his parents are down for that. So again, hoping he will google a rescue or someone like Cweb who wants to adopt a disabled bird. He should even put in a free add on the the net right now like craigs list or kijiji to see if anyone can help and or take the bird. Even if he can just tape the wing shoulder part with tape on both sides, to stop it turning back, good enough to allow to heal but I cannot tell good enough in the pics. Note the hole right at the blue bar on side of wing, like a pucture. Was he even able to feed and water it, did the bird eat?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Poor beautiful birdie! Am so glad taran that you are trying to,help him and that everyone here is working together to give the bird his best chance to survive and be happy.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Bella_F said:


> Kiddy ,thats great work.
> 
> For the wound, something topical will do. Can he get iodine or betadine where he lives? For a wound like that its worth diluting some iodine and pouring all over the wound. It will sting a bit but kill all the germs. Ask him what his family use for wounds and what they have. ?
> 
> ...


Thanks Bella, I asked him to clean the wound with saline water (same as I see Jay suggesting people) and then use antiseptic cream. Medical store is 6 kms far from his home and it was raining heavily for the whole day there. 

Yes he is being fed now. Sent him some videos on feeding small grains as he doesn't have peas/corns available and he couldn't manage to get them too because of rain fall.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL said:


> That is the exact video I sent Taran that he cannot open, Kiddy I cc you the videos at the time, are u able to open and send to him in a different format, also I said if he gets that peice back iinto the right place to actually tape or clue the primaries of each wing together at the ends. Even pin them with a metal clip, or cloths peg, saying cloths peg so u get an idea of how to hold them together at the ends. That way one wing holds the other in place. Dog breeder do that to keep ears tucked or taped with glue or tape. Hes gonna need meds and the bird may even need that part amuptated. Not very hopeful that the wing or bird can be saved unless it is either cut off before smelly infection goes systemic. Looks like to me that the bird was attacked, if you look at the wing further down by his side, there looks to be a hole there withing the feathers as well, he should examine the bird for a secondary injury.
> 
> Can he get antibiotics, he is 16 dont forget, and not sure his family will spent money for it, why cant anyone find a breeder or rescue near by? Kiddy u said tons of people have pigeons and fly them, someone has to be able to help them.
> 
> Someone else mentioned that he could try going to a vet and say its his pet that got attacked and maybe they will tape the wing for him. He could at least call and try, free to ask right. I wonder if he called a local vet and said it was a shcool classroom pet that was attacked by cat when a student took it home, if they would at least look at it and tape wing for free for him??? U nevher know. As a courtesy for the school.



Yes I converted all your videos and compressed and sent as he has very slow net connection due to poor weather. 
Yesterday he said he tried sock method but he came out whenever he put him in, he was not aware of pin etc yesterday and we were not in contact so today he may try again. 

It wasn't attacked by anything rather caught by ceiling fan, I have earlier seen a pigeon dead like this. He is lucky enough to be alive. 

I will ask him about vet, but no avian vet, all general.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would hydrogen peroxide, the diluted kind, be a good antiseptic before applying antibacterial cream? I used to soak my guinea pigs infected foot in it before applying a topical because it foams and cleans the wound. Is it toxic to pigeons? It fixed up the guinea pigs foot when he had a staph infection. It is usually readily obtainable and does not sting.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> And Andrei, you are wrong. I did watch CBL's video and it was a good one. The link brings you to a page with different things on it, and one of them was the wing wrap. The wing wrap is the one that opens up if you give it a few seconds. Maybe you should try the link again?
> You also said that it all depends on whether the video was done by someone who knows what they are doing.


You mean this link:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=D712BFD0D94797ABD087D712BFD0D94797ABD087

This one shows no wraping wing video, no matter how long you wait.

Maybe you talk about another link?




kiddy said:


> Secondly as there is wound so it is prone to bacterias/ infection and he says it smells bad so I think we should treat him with some antibiotic like cipro to not develop any bacterial growth and worsen the wing?


Trying to avoid infection is the first urgency. It may already be too late. An injectable antibiotic would have more chances than an oral one, considering how long it is from the wounding. Perhaps not even an injectable one may save the bird.

Anyway, from the experience of a Romanian bird rescuer, I think the severity of this wound is not as such as the bird to lose the wing, if treated properly and in time. So no reason to remove it. Here are some photos with the ~ 400 birds cared at any time by this Romanian rescuer, including some severe cases which, from her words, healed well:

https://www.facebook.com/silvia.moldovan.581/media_set?set=a.591274137652433.100003095571990&type=3


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> That wing should really be removed. Tacking the primaries together won't do it as there is just so much damage. It needs wrapping to support it. It has to be so much more painful hanging down like that. Some support would help. And getting infected. Wish he was near here. Unfortunately, not much time left to do something. The bones will begin healing that way. Actually, I'm not even sure just how attached they are to the shoulder, from the pics.


Yes it is not clear, how much is attached actually so I have asked him for more close pic which can show that way but he says bone is completely broken, he can feel it. 
The wound is smelling bad, I think he should be given antibiotics he can get them tomorrow, these aren't that costly here. But yes he is a student and he can't afford much too what I think. 
Yes if he was near, it was so easy, even shipping of anything takes time.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

So this he has drawn to show us.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> You mean this link:
> http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=D712BFD0D94797ABD087D712BFD0D94797ABD087
> 
> This one shows no wraping wing video, no matter how long you wait.
> ...


I agree Andrei even I faced the same problem, I couldn't open that video. Then I searched on YouTube this one which is on hawk so I believe it must be the same :. 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=B-DeKA0gRLg


And yes me too desperately want this wing to be fixed but today rain fall and now his wound is bothering me a lot.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Would hydrogen peroxide, the diluted kind, be a good antiseptic before applying antibacterial cream? I used to soak my guinea pigs infected foot in it before applying a topical because it foams and cleans the wound. Is it toxic to pigeons? It fixed up the guinea pigs foot when he had a staph infection. It is usually readily obtainable and does not sting.



I asked him to use saline water as hydrogen per oxide may not be available at everyone's home. Even me too don't have it at present but yes it is used to clean wounds, not sure on pigeons but should be.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

What is the location? there could be someone near that has experience in feeding and rehab that can take the pigeon, at this point that sounds like the best thing. This thread is too overwhelming. Also it may be practical to give it a name , call it your pet and have your mom take it to the vet to exam the wing.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Kiddy,

You're doing a great job trying to give information to Taran; its nearly impossible to help a wounded bird without spending a little money on it, which perhaps is more difficult for a family in India.

Do you know any more about if they could feed the pigeon yet, or get it to eat on its own? I think getting it to drink water and eat food is more serious than anything else at the moment. And its something that Taran could do without spending money. 

If there is no hydrogen peroxide or Iodine to clean the wound, and no hope for antibiotics, then the only options are home remedies. They only ones with any slight merit i can think of are vinegar douse, followed by honey, or perhaps cayenne and tumeric powder which have antibiotic properties. But its nowhere close to ideal.

Can they afford to call this rescue group in india? They help badly hurt street animals 

http://www.animalaidunlimited.com/contact/


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Peroxide does not need to be diluted if you had a ceiling fan does this mean he's the boys pets and he flew into the house into a fan or this is a feral pigeon. Kiddy were you able to give them all my videos because one of the video showed it wrapped in the tube type sock which was a very thin pant leg and then set inside of a box of the bird could stand but not struggle and flip out. It would be great if you could get that bird to the rescue and I told him that the most important thing right now is food and water there's no sense fixing a bird's wing if is starving to death and going to die from lack of sustenance. I will email him again and ask.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Would hydrogen peroxide, the diluted kind, be a good antiseptic before applying antibacterial cream? I used to soak my guinea pigs infected foot in it before applying a topical because it foams and cleans the wound. Is it toxic to pigeons? It fixed up the guinea pigs foot when he had a staph infection. It is usually readily obtainable and does not sting.



Hydrogen peroxide isn't good to use as it damages cells and can slow the healing process.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> You mean this link:
> http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=D712BFD0D94797ABD087D712BFD0D94797ABD087
> 
> This one shows no wraping wing video, no matter how long you wait.
> ...



That is the right link and it works for me.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I worked at a vet clinic for four years and we used it all the time with no ill effects. Again you can use plain soap and water, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, so whatever the kid can get a hold of is better than nothing. The peroxide also will digets any dried blood, and Jay I beleive if you let it on for a LONG time it may do cell damage, but we are talking about short duration, cleaning a would, rinsing off and applying any ointment. So instructions have to be clear, whatever you use must be rinsed off and bandanged.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You are right. People have used it for a long time. Then they discovered that it was damaging cells and slowing down the healing. We learn new things all the time. Now things are done differently. When we know better, we can do better.

infection. However, more studies continue to accumulate indicating that hydrogen peroxide is not only ineffective when it comes to aiding overall wound healing stages, but can also slow down the entire process. The bubbling on the wound surface common when hydrogen peroxide is applied is believed by many to be caused by the solution attacking bacteria within the lesion, when in fact it’s also damaging your own cells in the process. Simply using a safer solution, such as saline, can provide moisture and help cleanse an injury without risk of cell damage.
http://www.advancedtissue.com/debunking-myths-wound-care/


If one of the first things you do when you cut yourself is flood the wound with hydrogen peroxide, STOP! I know you think the bubbling action is awesome and proof that it’s doing what it was meant to do — killing all the bad stuff. Well, here’s what wound specialist Dr. Walter Keller has to say about hydrogen peroxide. “The hydrogen peroxide bubbling releases pure oxygen, which kills bacteria but also the healthy cells, slowing down wound healing.”
http://dianeatwood.com/catchinghealth/hydrogen-peroxide-cut/

You might think all that bubbling of hydrogen peroxide on your wound is its germ-killing action hard at work. And you'd be right. But that bubbling isn't just killing the bacteria in your cut, it's also killing your body's “fibroblasts,” the cells responsible for repairing the wound.1
http://www.myhealthwire.com/news/mind-body/553


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> So this he has drawn to show us.


Very helpful drawing of the injury Kiddy. 
Not good that the bone is coming out.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I'd recommend using Peroxide if there was nothing else, but when I've properly looked into it I came across all the warnings that Jay posted. 

It also comes in different concentrations. I get a Food grade Hydrogen peroxide for cleaning, and its so caustic that it will burn flesh if you touch it. I think its good to be aware of this, in case someone overseas in India, like Taran, finds this type and thinks its ok to use it.

I've mainly used Iodine 10% solution on leg and wing breaks for pigeons, where the bone is exposed. So far healing was always great, but I was able to care for them properly at the time.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No the stuff we use is only 3% and is fine, the 30% will burn ur skin off and is used in hair dying and lifting for blondes so ya, you need to know the strength, that said, you cannot buy the buring stuff from drugstore, only 3%. The other stuff is from hair supply. The stuff Bella is talking about, not sure where you get that. Soap and water is fine.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

CBL said:


> No the stuff we use is only 3% and is fine, the 30% will burn ur skin off and is used in hair dying and lifting for blondes so ya, you need to know the strength, that said, you cannot buy the buring stuff from drugstore, only 3%. The other stuff is from hair supply. The stuff Bella is talking about, not sure where you get that. Soap and water is fine.


What I use is just called `Food grade' Hydrogen peroxide, it has many purposes and can be bought all over the world. 

Some people use it therapeutically for natural health, such as cancers, advanced diseases etc , which is more popular in third world countries. I wouldn't like the idea of a child grabbing some and pouring it all over a pigeon, so wanted to mention the different concentrations.

Here are the main ones:

3.5% Pharmaceutical Grade
6% Beautician Grade
30% Reagent Grade
30% to 32% Electronic Grade
35% Technical Grade
35% Food Grade
90% rocket fuel


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

*Update guys *

So now this little guy is better at least for night. 
He has been fed twice a day but that's not sufficient Taran knows well and he will try for more tomorrow. It was his first time so he did well I believe. 
The wound was washed with saline water and covered with antiseptic cream and then wrapped as pic shows. 
It is almost 1 am here so I asked him to get antibiotic and gauge etc to wrap him to heal. 
Also I have asked him to look for a vet first if he can help, it would be great but he says he has seen no vet nearby. 
I really pray tomorrow God gives us a chance and stop this heavy rain so he could do much more efforts for this little fellow,i named him Precious... Any other good name?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> What is the location? there could be someone near that has experience in feeding and rehab that can take the pigeon, at this point that sounds like the best thing. This thread is too overwhelming. Also it may be practical to give it a name , call it your pet and have your mom take it to the vet to exam the wing.


He is in Patiala, Punjab. 
But life is not that easy!! Isn't it?
His parents are not supportive about pets. His mom won't help him finding a vet etc. He has to do it alone but yes we are there and our prayers. And yes he can't keep him as a pet either so even more struggles on way to find him a good home...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Bella_F said:


> Hi Kiddy,
> 
> You're doing a great job trying to give information to Taran; its nearly impossible to help a wounded bird without spending a little money on it, which perhaps is more difficult for a family in India.
> 
> ...



Hi Bella, 
Thank you... The link you posted is good but again very far from where he is, different state. So I will keep looking online for more if any. Just one prayer.. May he survive and live a normal life. although it is quite impossible but for God everything is possible. So I am praying having complete faith. Rest I leave everything to Him.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Very helpful drawing of the injury Kiddy.
> Not good that the bone is coming out.


He says his drawing is bad but I see he did great here. 
Yes it is stressful to see the bone but it may heal? What say? I really don't like removing the wing coz the boy is not a surgeon, it may get even worse. So....


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

And yes I need to name him an antibiotic.. A broad spectrum which can cover allllllll  or whatever!!! It should be good for him for his bad wound which is felt in his whole room badly. 
I think ciprofloxacin may work??? 

We can try oral, if injectable it is difficult for him unless he finds a vet. So pls just one???


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Iodine or Betadine would be good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If the bone is sticking out, the skin won't heal over it. They remove any bone like that and bring the skin together. With bone outside lots of chance for infection. Wish there was a vet nearby.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ya that break is gonna need to be pinned or amputated. Short of crazy glueing the bone and allowing the skin to grow back shut, it would need a surgeon. He really does need to get to a vet or rescue sanctuary. I know if it is a fresh break and bone ends put together and imobilized, he would have half a chance. Hopefully it can get worked out.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

This page has rescues in Delhi India, Kiddy are any of these close to u or Taran?

-‘Jaagruti’ is NOT an Animal Hospital, Ambulance, Rescue or Shelter Service, however, WE CAN ALWAYS TRY TO GUIDE YOU TO A SOLUTION.
– Scroll down this page and you will see the numbers of the animal hospitals/rescue services that operate in Delhi and NCR
– We may not have answers to all your queries or problems, but we can always try to give you the information you so require. But, if still, you are stressed, confused, feeling helpless or hopeless on an animal issue, and want to help a bird or an animal in need, the best thing you can consider doing at that time is to mail us on [email protected].
-We invite your queries, despite not having all the answers because, sometimes picking up the phone and talking to someone or penning down your queries/concern over the e-mail is the best way forward. It helps one put our thoughts and feelings in words, declutters our thought process and helps us think ahead more clearly. We may not have answers to all your queries or problems, but we can always try to give you the information you so require.
– We will only give information, that is legally correct and in the best interest of the mute, voiceless, animals.
ANIMAL HELPLINES IN THE CITY-DELHI & NCR
*Please note (update as on 3rd June, 2010 till present) : Regarding Circle of Animal Lovers, Neb Sarai, Saket-Delhi. This NGO been served a show cause notice by Animal Welfare Board of India and MCD in view of the string of complaints and inspection reports received against their functioning and ABC Work, so in the best interests of animals and their well-being, it is advised to all of you to refrain from using their services for either dog sterilization work or any other animal work till they come out clean.
—-
A thing to remember:
– Delhi is a big city with lots of traffic problems so please maintain your calm. All NGOs are understaffed and have limited resources, be with the animal till the ambulance arrives, best option is that you try dropping the animal to the nearest shelter yourself. Follow up on the animals care and make sure that it gets released in the area where it was rescued from (for that is the animals home after all! and If your pockets and hearts allow, please try and make a donation to the hospital that treated the animal to cover the costs of the animals treatment.
– Whenever and Wherever possible, take the animal yourself to a local vet’s clinic or to the Hospital yourself, the NGOs have just one ambulance each mostly, and it may not always be available to attend to your call promptly. Make an effort to save a life, you won’t ever regret it.
Bird Rescue Helplines:
If you spot an injured bird-Kites, Eagle, Owl, Crow, Pigeon etc., preferably consider dropping the birds yourself at either of the following places:
For transporting birds, place them in a cardboard box, like a carton or a shoe box, make some holes in the box for ventilation..
Wildlife Rescue (Chawri Bazaar, Old Delhi)-98100-29698, 98101-29698, 98106-39698 – contact preferably for injuries in birds like Kites, Hawks, Eagles and other non-veg eating birds with dehydration based injuries or cut wings (due to kite strings or maanjas) requiring stitches
Jain Charity Bird Hospital, Delhi: Shri Digamber Jain Lal Mandir Ji, Opposite Red Fort, Chandni Chowk, Delhi – 110006. Contact Numbers: +91 9810016162, +91 9968855520
Jain Charity Bird Hospital, Gurgaon: Near Govt Girls School, St Jain Mandir, Gurgaon, Gurgaon – 122001 : Phone: +91 9213922978, +91 9818564624, +91 9810387093, +91 9136148361, +91 9311217325 Landline: 0124-3201740
Angel Eyes (Prasad Nagar, Delhi)-Small animals & Birds Ambulance-9999-4111-93
Fauna Police (Sarojini Nagar, Delhi) – 9212-11111-6, 98683-55222
Wildlife-rescue related:
Police 100; Fire: 101: Police and Fire Rescue Service also direct wildlife related calls to respective NGOs.
Wildlife Rescue (For Kites/Eagles and other non-vegetarian birds; located at Old Delhi): 98100 29698
Wildlife SOS (For all wildlife Located at Defence Colony in South Delhi): 98719 63535; 011- 2462 1939, 2464 4231
Street Animals:
Friendicoes (Under Defence Colony flyover, South Delhi): 24 hour Ambulance Service: 98733 02580; 011-011- 24320707 and 011- 24314787
Friendicoes also runs, both, the Ghazipur Veterinary Hospital based Street Dog ABC Unit and Tilangpur Kotla based Street Dog ABC (Animal Birth Control) Unit, South West Delhi, near Najafgarh. Contact persons: Mr. Rishipal (ambulance contact ) – 8527192714, Dr. Rajesh – 9996904043
Animal India Trust (Lajpat Nagar, South Delhi): Dr. Devi: 93138 84347, 98112 52592; 011-5566 9924
This is primarily a Street Dog ABC Unit and a Clinic. Animal India Trust also runs a Street dog ABC unit at Tughlaqabad Veterinary Hospital.
Sanjay Gandhi Animal Care Centre (Raja Garden, West Delhi): 93122 11134, 011-2544 7751, 2544 8062
Sonadi Charitable Trust (Najafgarh): Mrs. Sen (C.R Park): 011- 26275216, 92121 31218; 9212797693; Dr. Vijay (Clinic at Ramesh Nagar, West Delhi): 98100 54693; Dr. Inder (Vet at Dwarka): 98103 46793
Jeevashram (Rajokri, Near Gurgaon): 011-2506 3696, 2506 4114, 2506 4118
PAWS (Masoodpur, Vasant Kunj, South Delhi): Dr. R.T Sharma: 98100 36254; 011 2689 5737
People for Animals -PFA Delhi Headquarters, Delhi: 011-2335 5883, 2335 7088, 2335 9241


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Kiddy, Taran if you click on this link and contact ANY of these rescues even if for owls or ANY other bird, they will have contact infor or resources they can direct you to, possibly closer to your locations.


http://www.bing.com/search?q=Pigoen+rescue+deli+india&form=APIPA1


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Kiddy, Thanks for those pics. Its so sweet looking and its a relief to see the wing back in place with the bandage.

Something I meant to ask, is Tarran able to keep it? If he can it won't matter so much if it can't fly.

I'm nervous of handing over pigeons to wildlife organisations in my country. They can be good with pigeons in the USA and UK, I've heard but in Australia they only kill them because they are a pest species. They are great help with other things though, like giving advice, helping me find medicine, food, and good vets. I've made my best local contacts through them , but learned the hard way they will take pigeons, but always kill them after. I wonder what they are like India?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> I agree Andrei even I faced the same problem, I couldn't open that video. Then I searched on YouTube this one which is on hawk so I believe it must be the same :.
> 
> https://youtube.com/watch?v=B-DeKA0gRLg
> 
> ...


That video has this description:

_This juvenile red-tailed hawk came into the center with a broken wing. Until he can get x-rays, his wing is bandaged to reduce further injury. This is a video of the procedure. Enjoy!_

So it is a temporary bandage.



Jay3 said:


> That is the right link and it works for me.


That is not the link of a specific video, neither you or somebody else can watch any video there. Is what I said, a search page - bing.com - like Google page, with some keywords typed there and a list of videos that appeared at that search. CBL may thought that making that search will return some tutorial videos about treating birds with wing fractures, but the results contains no bird treating videos, instead there are music videos ("broken wing" is a frequent poetic expression), children animation videos, some human medical tutorials etc.




kiddy said:


> And yes I need to name him an antibiotic.. A broad spectrum which can cover allllllll  or whatever!!! It should be good for him for his bad wound which is felt in his whole room badly.
> I think ciprofloxacin may work???
> 
> We can try oral, if injectable it is difficult for him unless he finds a vet. So pls just one???


Usually amoxicillin is recommended. An injectable antibiotic, Lincospectin or Baytril, would be more secure but probably he can't get or he can't give the shot himself. The dose for amoxicllin is up to 50 mg for an adult pigeon / day and is given in such cases for up to 5 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, all I know is that the link did work. I watched the video. Why would I say that if I hadn't?
And just because they are doing as a temporary thing till they can x ray the wing, does not mean that it is a temporary wrap. Vets do use it, and so have I and it worked. So give it up and stop arguing about it. Let it go. This bird will not fly again. He is lucky if he doesn't die of infection, poor thing. So getting it up and supported is all that was important. Not a particular splint or wrap. The figure 8 supports the wing and holds it in place againt the bird where it should be, and that is what was needed.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS you are wrong, the link I sent as Jay said DOES work, it is a link to MANY videos BUT you have to WAIT for that specific one to load and it DOES load. I clicked on it myself after reading your posts so have patience and quit arguing with Jay all the time. As was said, we cannot argue but try to help, so Im asking you nicely to just help and do not contradict people, just add any good addional info, any good info will be used and the rest including mine can be filed in the garbage if not needed. So HELP the boy and the bird, thats all. Ok. Edit, forgot to say thanks to all who try to help


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

CBL said:


> just add any good addional info, any good info will be used and the rest including mine can be filed in the garbage if not needed. So HELP the boy and the bird, thats all. Ok. Edit, forgot to say thanks to all who try to help


Thanks to you as well CBL!. And well said, this doesn't need to be a debate.

I'm not seeing any wrong answers on this thread, just lots of right answers that have worked for each of us in different situations. What Tarran is able to do with the info depends on his own personal resources. You never know who will read the thread in the future though; maybe something that didn't work for Tarran will work for them instead. It was great how you dug up all those Indian wildlife rescue resources.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Andrei, all I know is that the link did work. I watched the video. Why would I say that if I hadn't?
> And just because they are doing as a temporary thing till they can x ray the wing, does not mean that it is a temporary wrap. Vets do use it, and so have I and it worked. So give it up and stop arguing about it. Let it go. This bird will not fly again.


That video with the temporary wrapping was at a link given by Kiddy, not by CBL. 

Properly imobilised, the wing of Taran's bird would heal and he would had been returned to a flying life again, following the instructions from the guide I mentioned. Is a little complicated but between this and hurrying to imobilise the wing anyway onbly to alleviate pain / avoid more injury, the first variant is preferable, because *it does the same thing* - imobilise and prevent further damage, *plus there are chances to render the bird flight - capable*.

Unfortunately, now he decided to do your variant because you are several people and older members but perhaps at further similar cases that will presented here, we gonna recommend the techniques from "my" guide (that text with illustrations).





CBL said:


> AndreiS you are wrong, the link I sent as Jay said DOES work, it is a link to MANY videos BUT you have to WAIT for that specific one to load and it DOES load. I clicked on it myself after reading your posts so have patience and quit arguing with Jay all the time. As was said, we cannot argue but try to help, so Im asking you nicely to just help and do not contradict people, just add any good addional info, any good info will be used and the rest including mine can be filed in the garbage if not needed. So HELP the boy and the bird, thats all. Ok. Edit, forgot to say thanks to all who try to help


Just give again the link, maybe you speak about a link you posted before editing the message. That link from Bing.com that presently appears in your message is not the address of an individual video but, as I said, is the address of a page with some search results, of which none is about treating a bird.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Andreis I liked the resource you provided too and it will help someone. 

But did you read the posts that said tarran no bandages, no tape, no money for good topical antiseptic, no experience, no help from parents or Vets, little ability to shop because of rain, and was only a little kid? Its lucky he did anything to help at all. He was never going to set the bone expertly like a vet or experienced rehabber .

He's not going to be able to inject antibiotics either. You just have to deal with people on their level and think about what resources they have to offer.

What you offer is good. Don't think anyone doesn't appreciate you. But not all beginners can behave how you want them to.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

I am very thankful you guys are helping with this situation. I pray this bird makes it. 

Also if he won't eat, what about syringe feeding him a formula made for baby birds? Since he was still relying on his parents for food. 
I hope his wing will be okay and that he makes it. There has to be a place around there that can help. :'( what about asking on craigslist there? Maybe someone who loves animals and would help, or someone who could take in the birdie who had experience with birds and can help him. Or any other site like craigslist. Obviously you would need to be careful with this and make sure the person is genuine and will not harm the animal. 

Anyway, thank you guys. And im happy tarran is doing what he can to help him and that you guys are helping him through it. I wish his parents would help, but I am very thankful he is doing that best he can on his own. I will be praying over this special bird Precious, if that is his name now.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thank you so much Bella, you covered almost all the things which I wanted to mention here. 
And you are really understanding the situation. That's so nice of you. 
Taran 's mom is not at all supportive tho I can manage for money to treat him but he doesn't have any account number. 
Not one single trouble Bella, all things aren't in our favor. 
But yes just now while I was typing here, I got a message that he has got some saving to treat him and he will do it. 
Some relief Bella. I am really stressed since got this thread and very helpless talking to him for the whole day and not able to post here too. 
His mom has asked for an owner in 1-2 days, she is asking to do some magic from us. 
Well time will tell what is in that poor bird's faith but to me he is very Precious.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

It is so bad to see again we were arguing on such an unnecessary point that the link had video or not. 
I feel so sorry to see that. 
Andrei : When I said it didn't work for me I was right but when others said it worked for them, are they lying and what is there to lie about? 
May be some problems with us or whatever. Important was to see that video and I sent you that link so now why to argue? Jay and CBL are seeing that video from that link. Why don't we consider others points Andrei? 

I have seen these arguments many times silently and sometimes I intervene but pls try and understand is this really needful? For us to argue? For bird to be saved? 
I think we are here for birds and we know nothing about each other so why to point out others as always wrong. 
Pls everyone we all have same purpose, so what to fight about. 
Understand each other pls and listen what is being said and support whatever can be done. 
Pls I beg you all for peace. Pls be with me, be with this bird and pray for him. He has a little scope and it is very stressing. The guy is too young to deal such situations with no family support. 
All of us pls support him, if not by any means, then mentally with prayers. Pls don't argue any more, pls try and understand each other. I beg you all for that.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

RueBehavior said:


> I am very thankful you guys are helping with this situation. I pray this bird makes it.
> 
> Also if he won't eat, what about syringe feeding him a formula made for baby birds? Since he was still relying on his parents for food.
> I hope his wing will be okay and that he makes it. There has to be a place around there that can help. :'( what about asking on craigslist there? Maybe someone who loves animals and would help, or someone who could take in the birdie who had experience with birds and can help him. Or any other site like craigslist. Obviously you would need to be careful with this and make sure the person is genuine and will not harm the animal.
> ...


Rue, he is not that young and being fed on seeds now. 
Problem is he doesn't drink in spite of many attempts but Taran keeps trying dipping his beak in water. He will make it I believe and pray. 
Thank you for your prayers. We are trying to call people too but all are too far till yet. No place could be found near him. So pray that's all we can do. And I believe in my prayers more than anything.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with kiddy and rue behavior that the important thing is to overcome disagreements and put our heads together to help taran care for Precious.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hey guys, thanks for everything. Andrei, ya the skin will heal over a broken unset bone tho, and that may be ok in the short term but the bird will never fly and only if he has two bones touching together even if not perfect and they have FRESH blood supply, he has a chance of healing wrong, but healing non the less. If the blood supply has dried up, the bones will be rattling around broken and may never allow the skin to heal over as they will be rubbing and piercing skin and may break thru the skin again. The only one link I supplied was of me googling how to wrap a broken wing or something to that effect. At the point I clicked on the hawk video watched it and then by ipad sent link, so what that will do is send specific link to that hawk wing repair figure 8 wrapping if you wait long enough for full page to load, then that one video that I watched and sent will open in that page. Maybe legitimately your device will not open or allow it but thats ok, sometimes I get an option after that to click on the video corner itself on the work you tube and that general link will actually then open IN youtube for a more DIRECT link. I was in a hurry and didnt even look for that as I was frantically just tyring to get any visual for the boy.

Taran, if the bird will not drink the it is important for you to FORCE FEED the bird some of the frozen defrosted warmed veggies of peas and corn as this will give the fluids he needs. Go ahead and give it a try, u have my videos still if not kiddy or I can resend the youtube links of how to for you ok. Keep trying all you have to do is keep the bird fairly quiet, immobilized and fed and watered to give us time to find you further help.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks CBL, I came through the main problem of Precious and that is the bone is completely cut apart. He can see one end which is over the shoulder but he can't see the other end of the bone on which flight feathers are actually hanging. That bone when cut probably went inside the flesh and so we see the wing completely hanging. During his wrap Taran did hold and support the wing from hanging in air but he couldn't do anything to join those both ends of bones which were cut. He couldn't find the tape as it was still raining heavily there and even here at my place too. 
His wound is better today and not smelling that bad tho probably with cleaning and antiseptic etc so he says the wound seems better than yesterday. 
Now the only option is vet who can pull these bones close to each other and tape them on that way because Taran won't be able to tape them as he sees no second end of bone which is probably hidden inside the flesh. 
he doesn't have frozen peas on hand, he will buy when he gets a chance to go out. Till then he is trying by dipping his beak in water and I think they do take one or two sips in that way if thirsty and he is alert and active so must be getting the needed food and water?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What a beautiful bird. Am so glad the wing is supported. Now it is important that he receive some kind of topical or other antibiotics and supportive care to make sure he us eating and drinking. Is he pooping? Am glad taran is getting some suggestions. He did a brave wonderful thing helping this bird and deserves praise and thanks, as do all who are helping and Precious does too for trying to get better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> That video with the temporary wrapping was at a link given by Kiddy, not by CBL.
> 
> Properly imobilised, the wing of Taran's bird would heal and he would had been returned to a flying life again, following the instructions from the guide I mentioned. Is a little complicated but between this and hurrying to imobilise the wing anyway onbly to alleviate pain / avoid more injury, the first variant is preferable, because *it does the same thing* - imobilise and prevent further damage, *plus there are chances to render the bird flight - capable*.
> 
> ...



Andrei, I asked you to let it go, but since you can't,
First of all,the video that Kiddy posted IS the same video that CBL posted. The very same one.

Secondly, the diagram you posted IS THE FIGURE 8 WRAP. It is the same thing. Do you really look at what you post? Do you read it?
So this is going back and forth, and you are telling me that we have given information that will hurt the bird, and cause it to never fly again. And we ALL posted the very same wrap. 

The bone is coming out. This poor thing needs surgery that he isn't going to get. He wouldn't fly again anyway. Hopefully someone can take him as a nice pet bird and give him a chance at life. But nothing we did as far as information is to blame for that. It's just the nature of his injury. Now can you please let it go?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Taran does deserve praise for trying so hard for this little guy. He is very brave to step up and help as much as he can. This would be difficult for anyone, and given that he doesn't have a lot to work with, and not a lot of help, he is doing an amazing job. Kiddy, as you are in touch with him, please tell him how impressed we are with him, and thank him, and tell him that we are praying for him and the little bird.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

So here is a sad news for those who are praying for him. 
The bird is missing from his cardboard box. There are no signs of blood or feathers but yes the window was opened so may be some predator took him away. 
So here the journey ends in pain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh no! Did he look all over? Do you think his parents took the bird?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

No, I don't think his parents are responsible but yes they were after his life for this bird. I think some predator took him away as the window to the room was opened. Alas! He must be so calm as he knew he can't do anything, he was relying humans but humans do make mistakes. Taran said he didn't know the bird will disappear like this. 
Even me too never thought. I was emailing to a rescue the time I received the message and the email is now in my drafts....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know how hard you were trying for the bird, as was everyone. I am so sorry.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes everyone of us was trying hard and so he shouldn't be at least eaten by predator but we can't change destiny. So me too very sorry for our loss.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Bella_F said:


> Andreis I liked the resource you provided too and it will help someone.
> 
> But did you read the posts that said tarran no bandages, no tape, no money for good topical antiseptic, no experience, no help from parents or Vets, little ability to shop because of rain, and was only a little kid? Its lucky he did anything to help at all. He was never going to set the bone expertly like a vet or experienced rehabber .


Do you know how the life of a flighltess bird is? He will be kept indoors, seeing the sun seldom or never. He will not be able to climb on higher spots (where the birds like to relax or sleep). He will depend of his human master for a lot of activities other birds do on their own. If near a window, he will see the healthy birds flying outside and that will sadden him. Because of wing disability, which induce a disorder in the functionality of the whole organism, he will be vulnerable to all kind of pathogens and likely will be permanently sick with some digestive disease. For the master, taking care of a disabled bird means a lot of time to be invested into bird's management, which likely will not be possible and the *owner either will abandon the bird* or will manage him very bad.




Jay3 said:


> First of all,the video that Kiddy posted IS the same video that CBL posted. The very same one.


CBL have modified the message after you saw the video, replacing the link with the actual one, which directs to the search page, not to a specific video. And most likely she deleted the link because later she thought the video is irrelevant.



> Secondly, the diagram you posted IS THE FIGURE 8 WRAP. It is the same thing. Do you really look at what you post? Do you read it?
> 
> So this is going back and forth, and you are telling me that we have given information that will hurt the bird, and cause it to never fly again. And we ALL posted the very same wrap.


The document speaks about two types of Figure 8 to be applied at fractures of two different categories of bones: a type for humerus or radius fracture. You speak about a single type of Figure 8. And whitout splint, the bone will not join or will join wrongly. 

The paper give indications about how to make a bird able to fly, you speak about making a bird flightless in order to protect him from pain. So is not the same between thing what you and what the paper say, is quite different.



> The bone is coming out. This poor thing needs surgery that he isn't going to get. He wouldn't fly again anyway. Hopefully someone can take him as a nice pet bird and give him a chance at life. But nothing we did as far as information is to blame for that.


It doesn't need surgery, according to the document I presented. I quote (from page 4):

_If it is a compound/open fracture, you will also need wound cleaning and treating supplies such as gauze, cotton swabs, fine tweezers, dressings such
as hydrogel or Tegaderm and disinfectant such as Betadine._



kiddy said:


> So here is a sad news for those who are praying for him.
> The bird is missing from his cardboard box. There are no signs of blood or feathers but yes the window was opened so may be some predator took him away.
> So here the journey ends in pain.


Did Taran look in any hidden place of the room? I may be wrong, but I think a predator entering a house is no much likely to have happened. More plausible in my opinion, as the bird got confortable after the applying of the bandage, he wanted to move a little and jumped from box, then hid somwehere.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

> Did Taran look in any hidden place of the room? I may be wrong, but I think a predator entering a house is no much likely to have happened. More plausible in my opinion, as the bird got confortable after the applying of the bandage, he wanted to move a little and jumped from box, then hid somwehere.


He saw everywhere but couldn't find him.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> He saw everywhere but couldn't find him.


Then the bird may have jumped outside on window, if not too high. There is a very low probability, but he may still be around outside.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

kiddy said:


> He saw everywhere but couldn't find him.


Oh Kiddy, I'm sorry to hear that news. I hope it wasn't the parents I think if a predator took it from inside would be blood and signs of struggle. Most predators would be too shy to go inside.

I've had pigeons inside with bandaged wings who used the bandage as support to flap. They could get up to a window sill. 

I would be checking inside again too, just everywhere..under chairs, up on things where it could have flapped up. And also outside the window.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Bella_F said:


> Oh Kiddy, I'm sorry to hear that news. I hope it wasn't the parents I think if a predator took it from inside would be blood and signs of struggle. Most predators would be too shy to go inside.
> 
> I've had pigeons inside with bandaged wings who used the bandage as support to flap. They could get up to a window sill.
> 
> I would be checking inside again too, just everywhere..under chairs, up on things where it could have flapped up. And also outside the window.


I don't know Bella, he said he checked everywhere. I don't know what his parents can do with him but they were asking him to find an owner in 1-2 days so at least we had 2 days from parents so why they will take him when they themselves gave some time line. 
May be a cat because he said he saw a cat some time back with three kittens. 
I don't know but if any human is responsible for his death, he won't be forgiven by God as it was a very innocent life and in pain. I have firm a belief that He won't forgive if any human.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> Then the bird may have jumped outside on window, if not too high. There is a very low probability, but he may still be around outside.


He wasn't moving that much to jump from window. And Taran saw everywhere to find him.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am saddened to hear that Precious has disappeared.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

kiddy said:


> I don't know Bella, he said he checked everywhere. I don't know what his parents can do with him but they were asking him to find an owner in 1-2 days so at least we had 2 days from parents so why they will take him when they themselves gave some time line.
> May be a cat because he said he saw a cat some time back with three kittens.
> I don't know but if any human is responsible for his death, he won't be forgiven by God as it was a very innocent life and in pain. I have firm a belief that He won't forgive if any human.


I'm sad too Kiddy. My feeling now is the parents probably took it, and they would not admit to it to Tarran because it would upset him. Cats leave feathers behind from birds they catch, and are attracted to more moving birds usually. It just doesn't seem likely that a strange cat would have the confidence to jump into a strange room and forage around in boxes until it found a very still pigeon..they don't hunt like that. They like things that move. Its possible but not likely to me.

What is hard is that many people are bigoted towards pigeons and believe that they have disease and are dirty. Tarran is very special to have tried so hard to help this beautiful baby, and he did a great job with persisting to get the wing bandaged. He did his best with the situation and i am proud of him, and of you for helping so much.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

He looked literally everywhere and even outside? :'( I just want to hope he is still alive and just hiding well really really well. :'(
Will you ask him to please ask his parents if they took Precious? :'( I will be so mad if they are responsible for this. 


This makes me so sad though. I am crying... this isn't fair at all. Poor baby. If the parents took him, them I am livid at them. Poor Precious. I prayed, and it hurts to hear this. At least he was able to feel love in his last days by Tarran. I did not expect to come on here and read this. 

Thank you guys for all you did for this bird and thank you Tarran for being so amazing and helping Precious. 

I am so sorry to Precious he lost his life. I am so sorry to Tarran for his loss. And I am so sorry to everyone else who was helping and was invested in this.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

RueBehavior, yes i agree. Am so sorry to hear the news. Precious was a lovely bird and Taran and everyone tried so hard to help.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Bella_F said:


> I'm sad too Kiddy. My feeling now is the parents probably took it, and they would not admit to it to Tarran because it would upset him. Cats leave feathers behind from birds they catch, and are attracted to more moving birds usually. It just doesn't seem likely that a strange cat would have the confidence to jump into a strange room and forage around in boxes until it found a very still pigeon..they don't hunt like that. They like things that move. Its possible but not likely to me.
> 
> What is hard is that many people are bigoted towards pigeons and believe that they have disease and are dirty. Tarran is very special to have tried so hard to help this beautiful baby, and he did a great job with persisting to get the wing bandaged. He did his best with the situation and i am proud of him, and of you for helping so much.


Here i have seen cats hunting like this. They come from where you don't expect. A cat took my bunny Tuffy once and she took him almost ten houses away from my home and somebody from that same home of my known aquaintances recognized him and brought him back to me but was dead. There were no signs of blood or hair in my house. I saw a cat took a couple of weeks old baby from my home and there were no signs and we found all his feathers in our yard. 
Cats enter in our houses here from everywhere. We shut our door or Windows even kitchen else they spoil everything. They are in abundance here everyone knows. We have to be very careful all the time. The bunny was taken coz he came out of his house digging the uncemented ground and he was roaming around when we were all slept early morning and I was a kid of 10-11 years as I remember I didn't expect much that they come out so early in morning by making a large hole in ground. 
The dove baby I locked in room and was sleeping in veranda, but some family member went in room to find something and when came out forgot to lock it back. Although it was completely latched but cat must have pushed it to make a passage and went inside and took him in yard. My mother saw his feathers in yard and checked room and he wasn't there. This dove experience was so shocking I couldn't overcome easily, I was habdfeeding him and he recognized me as parents. When I share with someone about this dove I burst into tears, I was very attached with him. 

So here cats are very dangerous and so I never had a pet cat because since childhood I fear of them because he killed my bunny.
Everyone knows it very well here and so we have to be very careful. 
But yes as you said... if any human intervention is involved in his death to let the window open intentionally or tossing him somewhere, I will never forgive and my God knows everything about his death and my situation so I believe He won't forgive him/her too and they will surely realize one day, I have a firm belief.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

RueBehavior said:


> He looked literally everywhere and even outside? :'( I just want to hope he is still alive and just hiding well really really well. :'(
> Will you ask him to please ask his parents if they took Precious? :'( I will be so mad if they are responsible for this.
> 
> 
> ...



Rue, when I read your posts, sometimes I feel I have written it, you sound so much like me. Precious deserves our tears, he was too young to be dead if like this. If I was near his place even at 2-3 hours distance, I would definitely try to pick him up anyhow or asked someone
to get him to me. I would be so happy to have that lonely handicapped bird who was deserving our care. I would care him for life long. But he was a little more than 1000 kms. 
So now we shouldn't judge anyone. Whoever did this or if responsible, won't be able to sleep peacefully. That's my trust in God. 
People are people they can do anything. But so sweet that animals don't behave humans and if you trust, they maintain that trust and so.. we love them as we have a reason to love them. 
Now don't cry, he will be relaxed now that he is no more with people who can do anything anytime. And as he knew the cat may eat him he wasn't trusting on him so his trust must not be broken if it was a cat . So feel better if it was cat and not human. I can digest cats behavior but can't digest humans behavior if any human is responsible.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

Yes he was way too young. Im very thankful you helped though and did all you could. Yeah that is like 10 hours away.  
I wish I lived in your guys country and was able to help. I would take care of a handicapped bird/animal any day for life too.

I agree about the cat stuff, though it still makes me angry at cats when they do this but its not their fault. They don't know any better, it's just in their instincts. But for humans, there is no excuse. I wish everyone out there were as caring as all of us on this site. The world would be so much better. It's sad some of the things that go on and the way people behave. Most people are selfish and could care less about animals, especially the small ones like pigeons.

I just hope he knew taran was caring for him and felt loved and knew he was loved by him.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

RueBehavior said:


> Yes he was way too young. Im very thankful you helped though and did all you could. Yeah that is like 10 hours away.
> I wish I lived in your guys country and was able to help. I would take care of a handicapped bird/animal any day for life too.
> 
> I agree about the cat stuff, though it still makes me angry at cats when they do this but its not their fault. They don't know any better, it's just in their instincts. But for humans, there is no excuse. I wish everyone out there were as caring as all of us on this site. The world would be so much better. It's sad some of the things that go on and the way people behave. Most people are selfish and could care less about animals, especially the small ones like pigeons.
> ...


Yes me too feel the same Rue...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

RueBehavior,I too agree with you and Kiddy.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

Kiddy, for some reason I didn't see all of your post from earlier. I am so sorry about your bunny and dove. That is so sad and traumatizing, especially for a young child. I am so sorry. 

:'(


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

Taran told me that he found some dried blood on the side of the box when he was throwing the box bandages away.  so sounds like a cat then?

Poor precious.  I wish this didn't happen,not fair. Damn cat. :'(
And poor taran. If I was in the position and came home to see the animal was gone, id be devastated, so I hope taran is ok and knows how awesome he is for all he did.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Guys, don't fall into much saddness, death is in the worse case a temporary separation from someone who we loved.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

Thank you Andrei. You're right, I agree. Thanks. <3


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

RueBehavior said:


> Taran told me that he found some dried blood on the side of the box when he was throwing the box bandages away.  so sounds like a cat then?
> 
> Poor precious.  I wish this didn't happen,not fair. Damn cat. :'(
> And poor taran. If I was in the position and came home to see the animal was gone, id be devastated, so I hope taran is ok and knows how awesome he is for all he did.


Rue, I don't find any reason asking anyone about what happened. If the bird could be back I will be happy to ask infinite times without hesitation. But when it is causing more hurt to imagine how he was taken either by cat or anyone, we should just leave it whatever it was. I already left everything on God, may be I am a more believing person but think is it going to help anyone if we know what actually happened? 
For me I think I am afraid to know the truth, I don't want me stop believing people coz without trusting anyone we cannot help them and the world can't go like this. Trust is necessary but yes to keep the trust is very important too for other because once the trust is broken, it can never be with that pure heart as it was at the first time. People get afraid of trusting again on someone who breaks the trust . so leave it on God now and stop thinking about what happened, that's better for everyone.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> Guys, don't fall into much saddness, death is in the worse case a temporary separation from someone who we loved.



I completely agree with you Andrei. We shouldn't think more of what's gone, when the whole world is temporary. It will never make us smile and will just cause pain.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

taran said:


> CBL check the email n reply me please. Meanwhile can anyone tell me how to tie his wing in figure 8?


If someone is helping you through email then at least keep others who have posted here informed, or drop this thread all together IMO. it is better to have more eyes to see what advice you are getting because is very probable you are getting poor advice from an armchair veterinarian, so please be careful for the birds sake.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> If someone is helping you through email then at least keep others who have posted here informed, or drop this thread all together IMO. it is better to have more eyes to see what advice you are getting because is very probable you are getting poor advice from an armchair veterinarian, so please be careful for the birds sake.


Actually the guy was having a poor network connection and wasn't able to post pics etc. So whatever you see me posting in this thread was from him not from me and till the end I was posting on his behalf and was sharing the guidance with him whatever given and even he too always had an access to see but not a better access to post. If you go through the thread completely you will come to know but it is hard as you see many posts in there. The thread was going well with guidance of many people and needed not to be dropped.


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## RueBehavior (May 21, 2015)

Thanks kiddy, you are right, I won't worry about it. Thank you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> If someone is helping you through email then at least keep others who have posted here informed, or drop this thread all together IMO. it is better to have more eyes to see what advice you are getting because is very probable you are getting poor advice from an armchair veterinarian, so please be careful for the birds sake.


And yes with due respect I must say here, in spite of being new, I know how to talk about other members in public. I don't think anybody is vet here but people give advices for the sake of bird's health only on basis of their good experiences, all are volunteers to help needy birds, there is no personal benefit of anyone in giving wrong suggestions . Emails are shared for giving quicker responses so sometimes if not logged in here, still the poster can be helped and that is out of the way and awesome. So we should respect everyone's opinions to earn respect from other new members too. It doesn't suit experienced members to set unpleasant examples of how to behave in public. If any personal grudge with someone we should take it up privately and not publicly. 
I am sorry if you feel anything offended about but I said what is needed here actually being unbiased.


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