# How to get what again? MaryOfExeter and folks talk to a slow man



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Ok MaryOfExeter and crew. I have a challenge for you. 

The background: I am a moron. Pretty much covers it. 

The real background: I have pigeons for fun, but the boy is racing so we disagree. And I am a moron.

What I want to do: I want to use my current limited breeding stock (from the boys racing loft) to get some birds I like to look at. 

The obvious question is "what the heck is wrong with this guy?" If you figure that out my wife would like to talk to you. A less obvious question is "what do i like to look at?" 

I have a source for whites (already have promise of 4 eggs from different lines), but I would like to get more "opal" to straight blue bar. Now the question is, with one opal hen, a number of red and blue checks, an opal white flight brother to the opal hen, 2 blue bars (one hen, one cock) and a pile of white flight/splash blue bars, what do I do to get an opal?

What I have discovered is that those checks are like dandelions. Mate them with anything and you get a check! (although I have to admit that the super dark blue check with a white 6th flight is really growing on me, if only it wasn't so mean!)

Do you feel up to the challenge?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Mate an opal to anything and you'll get more opals. That's if the opal you are dealing with is dominant opal, WHICH since these are homers, I'm assuming they are.
If you want blue based opals, mate them to blue birds.
And the reason you have so many checks is because it is dominant to bar  And the really dark checks (t-pattern) are the most dominant.


Oh and by the way, don't breed dominant opal to dominant opal. It can be lethal in the babies with two genes for it.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

That popping sound was my head. 

Opal hen and opal white flight cock share an opal sire out of a long boors line. Dam on the hen is a very conforming colored blue (she might as well be the standard). Dam on the cock is an explosion in a primer factory splash. One of those birds that you would swear is a flying drop cloth. 

So take the hen and don't mate her to her opal brother. 

Mate the opals to the checks and I will get a check (silly dandelions).

Mate the opals to a straight blue and I get an opal? maybe some white if it is the cock that is mating.

As to the blue bars, is the white a recessive thing or a dominant thing? While I like it a little, it would be nice to have a bit less of it. I am trying to avoid having to many birds while I play around with pairings. No need to bring something into this world that you don't intend to care for.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Almost 


As far as the pattern goes (barless, bar, check, t-pattern(dark check)), I have just listed them in order from least dominant, to most dominant in those parenthesis.

Are your opals bars or checks?

Each bird can carry two pattern genes. The most dominant of those two is what shows. So your checked birds (whether they are blue, opal, red, or whatever) can be either pure checks, or carrying the bar (or barless) gene.

Opal is different than the pattern genes. It just effects the appearance of the bird. Opals are still blue bars, checks, etc. It's just with the opal added to it, it gives the bars/checks a bronze or cream/white look.




Mate your opal hen or cock to any of your blue birds to get more blue based opals.
If you want opal bars specifically, try to mate them to blue bars.

As far as white goes, there are 7 different genes for white  It can be both dominant and recessive, depending on which 'white genes' are in your bird. We still don't know everything about white and all its forms.

Your more heavily splashed birds, mate them to normal (no white) birds. That'll give you more of a chance of having normal babies or less white.


Now when you're talking about solid white birds, they are usually made white by a gene called 'recessive white'. Just like the name implies, it is recessive, so the bird will need two copies of the gene to show up. Mating recessive white birds to normal colored birds, will give you all normal colored birds (which carry the white gene).


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

My opals are bars. Lovely lovely bars. They happen to be very gently natured too which makes them even nicer to be around. The hen will hop right up onto my collar and get her cold feet as far into the jacket or shirt (if I don't have the jacket tight) as she can then hunker down until I manager to shoo her away. 

Anyway, if I want more pure bars I am going to have to segregate those checks out based on what you said there. That is going to be tough since we let them free choose their mates and all the checks picked bars. Good thing I have opposable thumbs and the ability to force them to pari the way I want them too.

So here is what I am going to need to plan:
1. Opals to bars for more of the same.
2. Opal white flight cock to bar hen with NO white to reduce white content. in offspring. 
3. Opal hen to bar cock. No white in cock for a more pure bar look. Worst case I get a nice blue.
4. If I feel venturesome I can pair an opal to a blue check and hope to get a opal check (what would happen with a red check, more of a slate?).
5. If I really want straight opal bars with no white I may need to consider other birds since I have so much white and check. 

As to the whites, the ones I am getting are from a release team. So far there have been nothing but whites in any of their squeakers. Is there a way to determine if these are recessive? 

Sorry to be a pain. Us old people can be dense.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Haha, no problem 

Your plans sound perfect! Opal checks are pretty by the way, so I don't think you'll be disappointed either way.




Recessive whites have bull (black) eyes. 99% of your white release birds are recessive white. The other easy way to get solid white is a pure ash-red grizzle. They will have little to no red color on them, and their eyes will be orange or pearl. I suppose you can get white by building up a ton of pied genes, but that's too difficult and unlikely


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, I worked a deal out with the boy. We have a blue check white flight cock that has a large winning record. Gerty (the opal hen) will do 3 rounds with him this spring. Come summer I will set her up with Big Nose who is a straight blue from a different loft (muleman?) and flew really good in training until he had a bad introduction to a hawk (he is in the sun room for a little recovery until spring). No more than 2 off that to see what I get. 

I had to give him Bro-Trude (Brother of Gertrude), which is the opal white flight cock, to use with the cousin of the blue check white flight that Gerty will be paired with for the whole year though. Gerty's line produces good cocks and hens but the nest mate of Bro-Trude didn't fair so well. I had to give sweeten the deal a little. 

Once I get the birds paired up I will get you some pics. Then we can take bets on what the offspring will be.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Ok MOE, 

I have created an album of some of the birds who were willing to cooperate. Gertrude and her brother are in there. Gerty is on the cover of the "birds" album. In the album Brother is after Gerty.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

How did you decide that Gertrude and Brotrude were Opal? They look like normal blue bars.


Wait. Unless the person who gave you the birds said that their strain was Opel. Which causes a lot of confusion.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I didn't. That is what I was told. They are much more "grey" than the blues. The photos were taken at dusk with the flash so that might have made them funky. 

Here is a more accurate look at Gerty.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Dominant and Recessive Opal pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/recopal.html
Dominant opal is where the white barred birds come from. They also don't have tail bars.
_"The opal colour is also found in hens and is usually a soft powder blue and there is no dark bar on the tail."_

The color may be coming from feather dust. Or they could just be free from any darkening modifiers. There is also the soft powder blue that is often found in show type racing homers.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I think the point there was "she might be covered in bloom". Yes, but she looks that way all the time. Even right after a bath. Always has. I would actually say she is looking darker these days. 

But she _is_ much darker than the opals in the site you linked too. 

Her brother has the same color but with white flights. The last set of eggs from the sire/dam turned out much lighter than either of the two I have. 

Hmm... Well I like the look we have. May be they are just light bars.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I like the look of them too  I have one I raised last year that looked like that. And I have a strange light colored DC breeder as well. I will take some pictures so we can compare


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Jaysen said:


> I didn't. That is what I was told. They are much more "grey" than the blues. The photos were taken at dusk with the flash so that might have made them funky.
> 
> Here is a more accurate look at Gerty.


*Hi Jayson, I look at this bird and I feel that it is a milky (my) The milky gene produces an overall softening pastel color.The gene is a recessive autosmal color gene,it gives the look of having been dipped in milk.* GEORGE


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Milky. I can live with that. I think the appealing part is that it is a softer feel that matches the personality of this particualr gene line. I have been told to be prepared for bipolar disorder once hte eggs hit the nest though.

Milky... I'll take it.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Milky huh? Hmmm. I didn't know it was in racers! Now I want some!
Make some Milky Indigos and you can call them Milk Chocolates 
Or Milky blacks and you'll get the Lavender color you see in Lahores.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Sorry I've been away for a while. The son and I headed over to Blackpool for his birthday gift (the big show) then I ran into some silly medical problems. But...

Gerty has opted to make with a straight blue bar named "Big Nose". They are 12 days on eggs and showing progress. They are in the OB section of the Castle. The YB section should be done this weekend. Which is good since those prisoners are very good at reproducing.

Anyway, hopefully I will get more that look like her. I'll let you know how they turn out.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Hello again. 

Gerty is almost on round 2 (she was a bit picky about her man). Apparently her line is "unpredictable" in offspring coloring. So I have what is looking like a slate barless and a red bar with white flights. Which is odd because pops is a straight up blue bar. As soon as I figure out how to get my google images here I will point post them.

Figured it out!

Sorry about the quality. Camera phone


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Oh. If you want see some more, very bad pics of "the flock" take a look at http://picasaweb.google.com/JandJLofts


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I see two blue bars - one looks like a milky like momma, and the other that hasn't grown the bars out yet


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

OMG! I love reading this stuff....But I just don't get it.  I have birds in my loft that I don't even know what color they are!


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

MOE,

That picture was taken a few days back and with a crappy phone camera. I will try to get a better one this weekend. 

They are feathered a bit more now and that milky is definitely turning an iridescent brown. The other one has just a very light hint of a bar on the last three secondaries. The rest of the feathers are that gradated dark grey. Tails are starting to show and they match the wings. 

Gerty's parents are apparently off a Muleman line that has odd colors. One of the hatches from her parents this year looks like a cross between a mallard and a ring pheasant. The funniest looking thing ever. 

MSfreebird, 

I really don't care so much as I like the look of Gertrude. And so started my path down the dark twisted road of pigeon genetics.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm guessing it is bronze then. Can't be indigo because it is dominant, and can't be ash-red because that is dominant too.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Bronze… I sure hope this guy won't be high maintenance like the bronze bed we have. Nothing but polish polish polish.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

MoE wins. Which is pretty standard when a woman and a man are on opposite sides of an argument.

The "bronze" vanished and is turning into a even milder version of Gerty's milky. The darker bird is starting to develop very faint bars. Still trying to get pics. Should be able to when weaning day comes. Assuming I can get the camera from the kid.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Ok MoE (you don't mind that do you?). Here is the "what the heck are you two doing out of your box?" photo from this evening;










As you can see we have one milky bar, but that bar is odd. I can't get the color to show properly but it is kind of an iridescent brown. 

The other one has just the one very faint bar. The color in the photo seems very close. I will will try to get them in a photo box (which I will need to make) later. 

I do know that the first molt may change everything.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Milky huh? Hmmm. I didn't know it was in racers! Now I want some!
> Make some Milky Indigos and you can call them Milk Chocolates
> Or Milky blacks and you'll get the Lavender color you see in Lahores.


i need update on the milk chocolate


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't know where the indigo came from but one of the babies is indigo. Could be dom opal I suppose. The other looks like faded, which may have been what Gertrude is as faded doesn't have much effect on hens.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I was thinking the pic of the hen look faded, I think Milky is unlikely.


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