# Green vomits, not eating



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

It's a baby with some neuronological problem, uncoordination of movements (not PMV). 


He had excessive appetite until 1 or 2 days ago, now he don't want food at all. He seemed not to assimilate the food, not developping the musculature and so, while being continuously hungry. Also, he was not able to eat on his own (though is more than a months old) and he apparently could not eat big seeds, only wheat or smaller.

Today, he vomited several times, last time the grains being mixed with something green through them. The mouth smells sour, like is something fermented in crop. 

Droppings are dark green - the feces and white-yellowish - the urates. They used to be more voluminous and firm.

The pigeon has a recent history of internal canker - discolored droppings, missing feathers, that apparently was cured (based on droppings aspect).

He also had worms or some bacterial problem, as two weeks ago he also stopped eating and started again after giving him a dewormer and antibiotics (don't know which one actioned). At that time the droppings looked different, solid feces without urates, in a puddle of urine.

What I want to know is: can be canker without modifying much the aspect of droppings? Can be worms, also without particular change in droppings aspect? How would you proceed, giving the details I provided?


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## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Hi, it might be Samonella or Ecoli, or Coccidia. Coccidia has the birds head feathers looking a bit like your litgle fellows, cocky comb look.
The droppings and vomit are a bit scary hey :/

To me this sounds more bacterial than anything. What antibiotic did you give 2 weeks ago? How long did you give it for?

Did the droppings improve after the antibiotic?

Maybe its a case of the antibiotic not being given long enough.

The sour smell do you have Fennel Tea, apple cider vinegar, oregano oil, olive oil and kyolic liquid garlic?
Fennel tea does wonders for crop cleansing in my experience. Apple vinegar is a good anti bacterial acid correcting addition to water.

My home remedy natural antibiotic
1drop Oregano Oil to 20 drops Olive oil.
Mix together to blend well.
Then out of this mixture, give 3-5drops up to 4 times daily depending on severity of infection and weight of bird. In my experience this combo kills every infection. I also add 4 kyolic garlic drops to it in very bad cases. Have been using it since December with positive results. Use for 5-7 days then break.

In your case i really dont know. Did the antibiotic make a huge improvement?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

AlicjanPip said:


> To me this sounds more bacterial than anything. What antibiotic did you give 2 weeks ago? How long did you give it for?


Thank you for answer!

I gave an injection of Lincospectin and with another ocassion, I gave for like 4 days a Fosfomycin-based drug. I don't remember the order, which was first but I remember in both cases the bird started to eat. When I gave the Lincospectin, in the same day I gave a dewormer, and I'm not sure which of the medicines actioned. Previously (1-2 weeks), is possible to have had worms, as was having some digestive problems that solved after a dewormer. 

When I gave Fosfomycin, was at the recommendation of a doctor, that saw at microscope undigested food in stool (didn't made a culture), at told me is most probably a bacterial issue.


This night I gave a Lincospectin shot and the bird stopped vomiting, nevertheless, the droppings look the same or worse. I feed her / him some honey 1 / 1 water with B vitamins and it seemed the crop functions, at least in respect of liquids. Maybe there are two pathogens, a bacteria - that was affected already by antibiotics (I will give antibiotic one or two days more) and something else. There is another pigeon with that dark green feces, yellowish white urates (the droppings are relatively big and firm), to her / him I gave Metronidazole (only once) and dindn't notice change in droppings aspect. Also,to this last pigeon I bgave anti-ccoci medicine (that has immediate visible results if the bird has Coccidiosis), and no change in droppings (still that dark green feces).




> My home remedy natural antibiotic
> 1drop Oregano Oil to 20 drops Olive oil.
> Mix together to blend well.
> Then out of this mixture, give 3-5drops up to 4 times daily depending on severity of infection and weight of bird. In my experience this combo kills every infection. I also add 4 kyolic garlic drops to it in very bad cases. Have been using it since December with positive results. Use for 5-7 days then break.


I will try. Thank you!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I have seen sour smell and yellowish droppings in crop stasis brought about by canker. The poops also look like starvation poops, from the pasty appearance. Crop massages, ACV, canker medication along with the antibiotic...these are some things that come to my mind.
From the poops, I guess water is coming through...it is important to keep her hydrated while the medications do their job and crop returns to normal.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> I have seen sour smell and yellowish droppings in crop stasis brought about by canker. The poops also look like starvation poops, from the pasty appearance. Crop massages, ACV, canker medication along with the antibiotic...these are some things that come to my mind.
> From the poops, I guess water is coming through...it is important to keep her hydrated while the medications do their job and crop returns to normal.


The smell from mouth is almost imperceptible. The crop is empty but if I want to give her food, she runs scared. Possibly to have the proventriculus wounded by the partly-grinded seeds I gave her. When I touch her crop toward the lower part, she step aside as if she feels pain and runs away.


Fortunately, she drinks on her own, but as you say.


I thought too to a plan similar with the one you recommend, but what intrigues me is that, beside stopping the vomiting, no improvements are apparent, no appetite, the same or worse apathy and droppings looking the same or worse. Maybe should I try Coccidiosis treatment? If yes, how soon I can give the medicine, given that I gave the antibiotic last night (around midnight) and the Metronidazole this morning (around 10 AM)? And to which of the two, Metro and antibiotic should I renounce, because I assume is too much to give all three?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The crop is probably blocked from canker, treat for canker and secondary infections, follow up with probiotics for birds. He really needs fluids, electrolytes. Esp if can't get food through, I would not force any solids . Intensive care hand feeding formula is all I would consider right now.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> The crop is probably blocked from canker, treat for canker and secondary infections, follow up with probiotics for birds. He really needs fluids, electrolytes. Esp if can't get food through, I would not force any solids . Intensive care hand feeding formula is all I would consider right now.


*THIS ^^ .......................*


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I would suggest do all three. The canker and antibiotic can be given together. I don't know about the coccidosis medication, maybe you can give it a few hours after the canker+antibiotic.
The canker medication should be given for 10-14 days. Stopping it in middle and re continuing later will cause resistance to drug. And force feed him easily digestible food, preferably Kaytee Exact if you've got it. Or soaked and grinded paste of easily digestible seeds.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I followed the recommendations. For 24 hours, she passed only urates, no feces. She is very depressed and weaker and weaker. 

Over night I gave a Lincospectin injection and liquid food. Unfortunately, she vomited everything. Today morning I gave again liquid food (finely grinded pigeon seed mix with water) with Metronidazole (some crumbled pill) and I made an injection with Metro solution (only 5 mg till now, but I will add more later). If is canker, I think will be cleared by the injected Metro. I'm afraid to not be a blocked gissard or perhaps worms.

I also think is too debile for a third medicine.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor thing. Hope she is on a heat pad. If you are giving metro injection, you can leave out the crushed pill in food...the taste of metro can aggravate vomiting. Instead of giving food in one go, dribble a few drops of the liquid food every now and then...less chance of vomiting. Keep her warm. 
Let's hope the metro/antibiotic does its job fast.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is on pad. Earlier she vomited a pea that was given two or three days ago. After that, the crop started to function slowly, she passed some feces. Crop (or gissard) is still mostly blocked, but I can't say if because food, canker or candida.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Anyone knows how can I give a dewormer if the crop doesn't function?

I begin to think that this may be the cause. Before starting to feel bad, had an excessive appetite but didn't gain weight at all. She was hungry all the time, even after filling her crop. And as I said, there were previously two situations when (sure at last in one) the dewormer improved her condition siginficantly.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

How does the crop feel? Does it feel grainy with yesterday's food....or pasty and squishy...or impacted? Crop massages can help move things. Hope you are giving ACV water to drink.
I guess the bird could be too weak for a dewormer now. Maybe you can give a garlic capsule and see.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> How does the crop feel? Does it feel grainy with yesterday's food....or pasty and squishy...or impacted? Crop massages can help move things. Hope you are giving ACV water to drink.
> I guess the bird could be too weak for a dewormer now. Maybe you can give a garlic capsule and see.


I gave only liquid food and she used to vomit most of it and assimilate a small part of it. So for most of th time, crop ws filling with a small amoutnt of liquid.

This night, around 4 AM, I gave honey mixed with water and a Flubendazole - based wormer (I have not other dewormer dosed for birds). Apparently she didn't vomit and she made some small droppings with feces.These small droppings intrigues me, could they be because is a mass of dead worms inside her? Because before giving the dewormer, the droppings (while rare and feces-less) were normal in size. I put some ACV and she drank a little, but most often showed not wish to drink such water.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Vomiting will drain her energy, I think giving her only few drops at a time (like every 2 hours) would prevent vomiting and conserve energy. 
The smell of ACV should be almost imperceptible, in the drinking water. Just a slight smell. Maybe you can reduce the level of ACV and see.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The dark green droppings were from not getting enough food. The yellow urates along with that and the vomiting suggest canker. I would treat for canker with Metro,(not in shot form), and Baytril for 10 days, to cover other things. Feed before medicating. Over here a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul helps stop the vomiting if given 30 min before feeding and medicating. Don't know what you have there. 
You want to then treat for cocci and worms. You throw too many things at a bird in too short a time. And you don't worm a weak or sick bird unless you are pretty sure that worms is what is causing the problem. In this case, it isn't. You can cause more harm by giving so many things and jumping around so much.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you for trying to help!

She passed away this night, unfortunately. Starvation, dehydration and maybe some respiratory issues (lately she was breathing by moving the entire body), or maybe just suffocation (food coming from crop) may been the cause.

When I went to sleep around 2 AM after feeding her, I dreamed I was on a very dark street and at a window a (human) baby was crying, being left alone. I haven't dreamed for years as I'm sleeping very deep and this very clear dream impressed me more than any dream before. I went to the pigeon but I had no the inspiration to stay with her over night, maybe I could saved her. 

This event, like other losses of pigeons, marked and changed me much.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry she died.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear that. I used to check this post with dread for the past two days...fearing the bad news. 
I too had a similar dream a year back, when my pigeon of two years died. I think what I saw in my dream is his next life as a human baby--- if you believe in reincarnation. 
We are all connected in weird subtle ways, as souls. Maybe your dream was a message from her to you.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you Jay and Kunju for your words and for your comforting empathy! What I regret was that I missed when she died. I noticed many times how important is the bird to feel is not alone and somebody cares about them. That dream scared me, I think was a sort of warning (was before she died), but I didn't understand.

You know, I'm not sure animals have souls, if they have, I would be so happy to meet again all these little ones that I lost. If they don't have soul, helping them makes us better so in any way, we gain by dedicating us to them.


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