# bleach in water



## ALDO (Apr 14, 2004)

hello , someone informed me that a small amount of bleach in pigeons drinking water is a good way to prevent diseases caused by bacteria that can possibly contaminate water.Is this true ? if so how much do you add that would be a safe amount?


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

This is done but I will not take the responsibility to give you a dosage - I don't do it myself because the chlorine will kill probiotics I deliver in the feeding and perhaps those in system as well. When the probiotics are gone the absorption of nutrients will decline and the bird will also be susceptible to fungal attack. This is why some of us use AC vinegar and garlic - they may be effiective without trouncing the probiotics. The water should be changed once or preferably twice per day, be in foul proof waterer, and be disinfected once a week (or more if the waterer is gavanized).


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

Dano,
This topic has been raised many times in the past and it has been a source of confusion for me. I can't imagine that my drinking any water that has been treated with bleach could be healthy so how could it be good for the pigeons?
Apple cidar vinegar is fine for people and for birds but bleach is something I'm very suspicious about. It's been touted but I don't fully understand how it could be safe. You're point about the bleach killing off good gut bacteria is a good one and so the use of bleach in water may be appear beneficial in the short term but probably very damaging in the long run.

[This message has been edited by fred130 (edited May 13, 2004).]


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

That's right if I understand it, Fred. The way it can be drunk by us and our birds is in very, very dilute concentrations, and for the reasons we touched on, it looks like a loser as a standard operating procedure.


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## Anwyn (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Aldo, where you from?


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## ALDO (Apr 14, 2004)

Thankyou for your responses. Useing apple cider vinegar sounds much safer. What part water to vinegar should i use? I live in Vallejo, Northern Cal. Anwyn. Novice pigeon raiser....


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Aldo,

I do this once a week (on Sundays) with my pigeons. I think that it's important to follow up the next day with a probiotic. Here's a good article on the use of bleach in the water. 
http://www.albertaclassic.com/chlorine.php 

birdy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

ACV one tablespoon per gallon of water. Be sure to get the organic one from the health food store. (The bottle will look cloudy, not clear)

Treesa


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Hi birdy, 

this is very interesting - at the end of the day i will use the AC vinegar and fresh squeezed garlic once a week. this is supposed to achieve the acidic condition and attack bad bacteria while leaving the probiotics. that's may sense of it.

but i know you have a great deal more experience and your results speak for themselves. i notice you use this once a week, then add a dose of probiotics afterwards, whereas the gentlemen in the article uses it everyday he is not using something else, which he did not quantify. putting chlorine in the water everyday sounds way over the top short of some explanation on how probiotics can flourish under such a condition.

It's kind of like this oxine lung fogger deal - intrigueing but i would have to know a lot more to try it on my birds.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Dano,

I would agree with you that everyday use of chlorine is a bit much. As Dr. Marx wrote he was striving for an acidic environment with the droppings to ward off the harmful bacteria. My belief is that accompanied use of ACV can accoplish this environment as well.

My weekly routine with the water (set aside 24 hours for the chlorine to dissipate- I know, sounds contradictory) consists of two days of ACV at Treesa's dosage (Tues & Fri). 2 days of probiotics - you certainly don't want chlorine here - (ProBios - Mon & Thur). Wed gets vitamins one week, red cell the next. Sat, like you, fresh squeezed garlic juice. On one Sun I use bleach, the next Sun is 1/4 teaspoon Virkon-S to a gal (a viricide). Some use Nolvasan.

I'm an extreme believer in using 2 or more probiotics for you need to barrage the gut with as many differently good bacteria as possible. So, I add BioMos to the feed with a bit of flaxseed oil (omega 3 value).

As for the oxene, I'm a bit on the fence. I was intrigued by the claim that it really helped with upper respitory relief. As you know problems here are the first sign of stress in racing pigeons. I only used it for a short period last year during training and racing. I did not have any problems and did not use antibiotics as most racing enthusiasts do. I'll probably do it again.

You know, I've had pigeons off and on since I was a kid - now 55. My racers now are the healthest birds I've ever had. However, I believe that if you have homers that fly around the yard and not race you don't need to do all the things I do. Most likely a good routine of probiotics, ACV & garlic will do the trick. Sorry to go on so...

birdy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Birdy,

Thanks for all the information.

What is the Red Cell? 

The BioMos sounds like a good alternative. I use the Pro-bios but I wonder if it is as effective as it should be when adding it to water. I think a second source of gut bacteria (BioMos) in the seed is a great idea, as important as having two different multi-vitamins for the birds.

LOL! I'm running out of room!! I have got my calendar so filled up with their nutrition schedule, I'll review it and change a few things.

Treesa


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Treesa,

A well known South African avian vet in the international racing pigeon circuit, Dr. Wim Peters, is really keen on using several probiotics. Another avian vet and pigeon racer in Australia, Dr. Colin Walker, is a big advocate, too. Dano references his products - the Australian Pigeon Co, which by the way are top notch - Siegels carries them.

Red Cell is best known as an iron supplement for horses. Besides iron it has vitamins A,B,D,E&K with trace minerals. You can get it at most feed stores. Now, I'll warn you there is some controversy over the use of iron in our pigeons. Some say it causes liver damage. It probably does if used to excess. That's why I use it once every 2 weeks at a teaspoon/gal. However, I know quite a few fanciers that use it at a much higher dosage and a few times a week. 

Yes, I know about your calendar. Mine is certainly over-the-top. Plus, I forgot to mention that I also use Concentrace at 1/2 teaspoon/gal everyday but Sun. I just add it with all that other stuff I put in their water. Concentrace is a mineral supplement. Most folks know it if they are on reverse-osmosis filtered water.

Mind boggling, I know...

birdy


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Thanks for that information. I appreciate knowing new rinkles from knowledgable people like you and Treesa. 

Regarding the the oxene, I know that racers normally have a problem with respiratory disease in the season. Particularly since the oxene is delivered directly to the lungs via a fogger, it would eliminate the need to kill gut bacteria through the digestive system, and it would be applied direstly to the area that needed it. Your birds stay clean without the other meds. I would appreciate any feedback on this if you come to believe in it. thanks


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## ALDO (Apr 14, 2004)

Thankyou all for all this information...very educational, and sort of daunting . there is a lot to know about keeping your birds healthy.As i undestand it the bleach is to keep germs from contaminating the water , such as droppings that might fall in the water .The bleach would kill harmful bacteria until the next water change, sort of like a precaution. 
Is there a basic program that i could use to ward off the most common or most dangerous diseases? the birds i have appear to be very healthy, but how can you tell if they have worms etc.Thanks again for your help....Aldo


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Bleach in the water not only disinfects the waterer but it goes into the birds and kills bacteria and that's a tricky bit as discussed. 

Most people with pet birds medicate for canker and worms - other stuff depending on a lot of circumstances


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Maybe I had better think about the water I put out for my small crowd of ferals.

I read some years ago about a teaspoon of straight bleach in a gallon of water (for pigeons and any wild birds), and for a while I have done that. They don't get fed much now (did through the cold winter!) but I try to see they get plenty of fresh water. Certainly haven't found a sick one for a couple of years, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Maybe I should switch to a purpose designed treatment like the organic one my nearest pigeon supply store sells.

JOhn


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