# Blue Bar x White Pair



## Rooster808 (Oct 25, 2011)

I have a blue bar and a white pair up and lay one egg.
The offspring is starting to feather out and it looks like a splash, pie, grizzle (not sure of the differences) Wings are blue, flights are white, head is white and tail i think was white also. I just looked at the baby real quick today.

I was kind of under the assumption that I would get either a white or a blue bar from this pair. Since I have some splash in the offspring does this mean the white (hen i believe) is probably carrying it?


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

My simple understanding of the genetics of white.
White is not a color like ash red, blue or brown. It is usually a combination of genes that cover up whatever is underneath. Things like grizzle, pied and sometimes recessive white. 
So with a pure white and a pure blue it is very likely you will get the type of birds you are describing. If the blue bird carried recessive white and if that is what the other bird is you would get some pure white birds. Still half of them wouldn't be white. 

If the bird is recessive white with no other pied or grizzle genes and you pair it with a bird without carrying rec white you would actually get all pure colored birds from them. So likely your bird is not rec white.

If you don't know the ancestry you really never know what white it is until you get some youngsters.

Tim


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Probably. I have a pure white hen and a blue bar male, and was told that the sooty blue bar has grizzle in his parents, so all the bubs I got from that pair are:
Normal grizzles
Red grizzle
Silver red bar or ash I guess
Blue bar hen with a bit of splash but mostly blue bar
And a couple of almost pure whites with a spot of grizzle on rump.
I love the grizzles they are my toughest fastest birds. AND I love the look.
Fav tho of all the bubs are the red griz and the silver and both are males.

So the brother to the blue bar again a sooty blue bar, paired with a white hen also and they throw dom pieds, and pure whites. No grizzle tho.

So I would guess the white hens are carrying something otherwise they would both throw the same but they didnt.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*White*

Recessive whites and grizzle whites can have almost any basic color in them, but solid white grizzles are usually ash red under neath the grizzle. Grizzle birds carrying blue tend to have blue flecking since grizzle tends to do a poor job of covering up blue.

Recessive whites will be bull eyed, and recessive white will cover up any basic color including blue. It will also cover up other color influencing factors like recessive red, spread, reduced, others.

I have heard there is also a dominant white but I have never seen it.

I have made the same pairing of a recessive white hen to a blue bar cock. I only raised two young off them. Both of those youngsters were blue check with pied markings on the head and breast, and mixed flights. You never know what might come out of a recessive white.


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

Here are a couple photos of what a white hen and rec red cock produced for me.









A couple that ended up being ash red grizzle cocks









A blue check hen and a stork marked blue hen. The stork marked one looked good early on but moulted out about half the color in it's wing and tail.









You just never know with those white ones. At least I found out that the hen is ash red under the white and the cock is likely pure blue under his red.

Tim


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*White and recessive red pair*

Tim,

I don't think your white hen is carrying ash red. The two youngsters in the top photo appear to have a terminal tail band which is usually washed out in ash red birds. I think it is likely they carry one gene for grizzle. I have a roller hen that I bought at a feed store that has a similar look to those two youngsters. I'm not sure what all she's carrying, and I'm not sure what genes you have uncovered in those two.

The white in the bottom photo is definitely a blue grizzle. Most people called birds marked like that a stork mark. The flights and tail still show the black of a blue pigeon. The red in it's neck is likely bronze. Grizzle doesn't cover bronze well, and you will often see stork marked birds that have random bronze feathers. I love the look of a stork marked bird in the air. I used to have some in my rollers, and I am going to breed some more if I can. One dose of grizzle and bronze is what creates what is called tortoiseshell in rollers. In my experience two doses of grizzle creates the stork marked birds, but to get those you have to be breeding out of birds without white flights and white tails.


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

Chuck,
I'll have to get a couple new photos of those cocks. They changed quite a bit after their first moult. I got 4 cocks out of them and they all look fairly similar. They all also have blue flecking in the flights and tail. I wondered if it was dirty or bronze that was causing that tail band as young birds?

That stork hen has changed a lot also. Only about half her tail is colored now. The rest turned white. Strangely the colored feathers are all different shades. I have always wondered if it was dilute or just the grizzle acting different on each one.

Those white birds are interesting.  I wish I had a larger space to breed all that I would like to.

Tim


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## Rooster808 (Oct 25, 2011)

I have a second set of offspring from this pair. One is Red and the other is a blue bar.


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