# found baby- how do i clean him correctly



## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

i found a baby that i think is about 20 days old. he is eating well but does not want to drink. i have added extra water to his food for now so he doesn't dehydrate. my main question at this point is, how do i keep him clean? i assume he has no water proofing yet. i have tried using a damp cloth to get the bulk off of him but i am at a loss as to how to get the sticky bits off. also would he be ready for seed? he eats like crazy. how much should i expect him to eat and how often is ideal? thanks for the help.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi and welcome to pigeon-talk.
I am not clear from your post if he eats on his own or if you are feeding him.
What are you feeding him, how often and how much?

How long have you had him? If he is in your care for a few days already you can give him a bath with Dawn dishwashing liquid. This should take care of whatever is on him. Make sure to dry him well after the bath and keep him warm after that.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Imchihal, 


Lol...the getting formulka on their feathers under their chin and so on is a problem I have also, and one I have never really solved very well.

I just try and gently blot and rub it off with a damp kleenex, and of course this is only so-so at best.

They get so wound up and excited when one is trying to clean them, it is just about impossible.

Otherwise, if your Pigson is 'nuzzleing', you can try this for him to start drinking and eating Seeds on his own -

Moisten your finger tips in warm water, and keeping your hand low, below his eye level, just gently massage his Beak kind of down toward the root, and he should nuzzle enthusiastically.

Then, having a small bowl an inch and a half deep or so, of 'tepid' Water ( the water should be about 100 degrees or so, or around body temperatures, but do not microwave it, and do not use 'hot' tap Water, just warm some cold Water in a pan...)...

..and, keeping your finger tips of one hand on his Beak, gently guide his Beak into the warm Water and he will drink.

You may have to do this several times over a day for him to begin to simply drink on his own, without your finger tips on his Beak sides.


Similarly, you can have him start 'gobbleing' small whole Seeds, if you do the same thing, only this time, have a small deep container, like a Shot Glass, full of small whole Seeds, such as Finch Seed or Parakeet Seed, and keeping your finger tips on his Beak sides, gently guide his Beak into the Seeds, and he will 'gobble'...

dfo not let him over-eat this way, which they can or will do.

But, similarly, after a few occasions of this, he will start half pecking and half gobbleing on his own, and soon be pecking splendidly all by himself.

Of course they like it if we peck with them, so, just use your crook'd index finger to 'peck' with while you narrate things like "Ohhhh, these are really nice Seeds here!..." and so on, and he will squeak and shoulder pump and nuzzle your finger, but he will also start pecking as well...

Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

i have had him or her for about 2 days. he is eating on his own more or less. he only eats if i put the food in a very deep dish. i have been giving he a mush of baby ceriel, sorry i can't spell. i am going to the store today to get something more appropriate. i have been feeding him every 4-6 hours during the day. he is eating around 10-20 cc most feedings but it is hard to judge actual amounts b/c he gets more on him than in him most of the time. i fugured i would try seed to see if he will try it. he sits still for me to groom on him and is very well behaved. he is very healthy looking and i think he had fallen from the nest day i picked him up. he was at my barn and would have been squished or eaten if i didn't take him. do I need to give him baby bird formula? also if i wash him, how do i keep the soap from getting in his eyes? thanks for all the help the baby and i are greatful.

just got back from the store and i now have good food for the baby. i assume mixing the previous food and new food is the best way the transition him/her. How often should his crop empty and how much food should i really give? will he stop eating when full or do i need to limit him? 

p.s. he cracks me up b/c he loves the sound of my typing.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Imchihal, 


You can just go right to the small whole Seeds and not bother trying to mix them with the mash.

He should do just dandy with them.

In fact, try and watch out he does not over-eat with the Seeds if he is talented at pecking, since they can do this and we should not let them, so...find a small clean little custard cup, or empty clean Tuna Can, and use it for his Seeds and make it say half full and call that good enough for most of the day, seeing h ow he does with it.

Peck with him of course...and offer tones of praise and admiration...



If he is not drinking yet on his own, try the thing I described and you will have him drinking on his own in no time.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

the baby will now peck at the seeds but still will not consume them. i guess i should just keep trying. he also wont eat for anyone but me. any ideas to get him/her to eat from someone else. one daya week i am gone for about 10 hours and i just don't know what do do about his eating. any ideas would be great. also does he need to break the seeds open or will he digest them fine without cracking them? thanks


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Just keep working with the youngster on the eating. S/he will soon catch on and become self sufficient. You don't need to crack the seeds. Pigeons eat them whole unlike some types of birds that do hull the seeds.

Terry


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

thanks so much. how old do they usually begin flying? also at what age can you tell a boy from a girl and how can you tell?


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

new question. the baby seems to be getting rituals with his/her eating. he flutters one wing. he alternates sides on the wing he flutters, so i don't think it is an injure. also he turns sideways when eating. is this normal? he seems to be happy and if he could talk i think my name would be mom by now but like any new mother i just want to make sure that i am doing everything correctly. thanks for all the help.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhh..when they are feeling their chow-time excitements, whether for being fed or early self-feeding, they will half-flap one Wing, both Wings, twirl in circles, and combinations of all three...they just have a lot of energy and pleasure and excitement about food at this age.

Anyway, if he is getting enough chow he should be pooping 40 to 50 poops in 24 hours...


Is he drinking allright?


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

still working on drinking but we are making headway. i desided to add a bit of extra water to his/her food for a while and feed more often to make sure he is well hydrated. i heard about the number of poops per day but i have trouble counting b/c he poops in the same spots. i know that he poops a LOT and there seems to be enough water content so i am not worried about dehydtation. he is doing well but i think he is just a bit slow on the learning thing. he will figure it. it will just take time. thanks for the help. he seems to be gaining weight and i got a scale so now i can monitor to make sure. he still gets a bit messy and does not want to play in water but we are managing. by the way at what age do they usually fly? also what do you think that chances are that he can eventually be released? thanks again. i am sure to have more questions in the near future.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Imchihal, 


Go ahead and review a few posts up where I had outlined a method for guiding youngster Pigeons to drink, and you and he should do fine with it.


They start flying after building their muscles gradually as they develop generally on the whole...but by around 32 days of age or so, usually they are flying somewhat for short distances.

They do best to be allowed to explore and play and goof around and excercise as they may wish in their own terms.


Ideally, if you can supervise him while there, take him often to some place where other Pigeons are...and feed 'them' so he can peck and be with them now before he can fly...

Later, release him there with them, and he will already have the experience of their company and presence and be much more comfortable.

Just let him have a frying pan full of water or something similar to bathe in now and then for now...usually they love their baths, and somewhere around this age is when baths start to interest them.


Have fun..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

is it normal for a baby's poo to have some white to it? 
the baby is still not drinking on its own and still will not eat the seeds unless they are fed with the formula. i just keep trying. he has to get it sooner or later.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

lmchihal said:


> is it normal for a baby's poo to have some white to it?


Yes, some white is normal. There should be a number of posts/threads here on Pigeon-Talk about poop and what's healthy and what's not.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

lmchihal said:


> is it normal for a baby's poo to have some white to it?
> the baby is still not drinking on its own and still will not eat the seeds unless they are fed with the formula. i just keep trying. he has to get it sooner or later.



Hi Imchihal, 



Have you tried gently guiding his Beak like I suggested? Into 'tepid' Water for drinking, and, into a small deep shot-glass of small whole Seeds for 'gobbling'?


I have never had this not work well, even with those as young as 12 days thereabouts...and it always works well with any pre-flying ones...

Usually, I have them doing this on the first or second day of my getting them, even though I Baby-Feed them a great deal also, I like for them to also eat and drink of their own, when offered Seeds or Water to do so.

So, please review the info and let me know?

You should be able to do it...just be very gentle and keep your hands down low below their eye level...be 'with' them in what you do...


Good luck!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is one good thread about pigeon poop:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11637


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

i have tried the shot glass and "pecking" with him. he is now flying small distances aroung the room. i have tried the shot glass with water also. the only time i have see him really drink is when he is bathing. i am at my wits end. i have a wedding this weekend out of town and the baby won't even eat unless i am in the room. i have had other people try to feed him but no matter how hungry his is he will not eat for them. i really want to be able to see my friend get married but i don't want the baby to go hungry either. if he gets hungry enough will he eat? i just don't know what else to do.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

lmchihal said:


> i have a wedding this weekend out of town and the baby won't even eat unless i am in the room. i have had other people try to feed him but no matter how hungry his is he will not eat for them. i really want to be able to see my friend get married but i don't want the baby to go hungry either. if he gets hungry enough will he eat? i just don't know what else to do.


Hi Imchihal~He is getting more self-sufficient now. As long as you provide deep dishes for food and water he will be fine, and will eat as long as it is there. As long as he will be on a cage of sorts while you are away he will be fine. Go enjoy the wedding and let us know how he did...and the wedding too.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*I you leave him alone for the week-end?*

Hello Imchihal,

I you have observed the pigeon drinking before taking a bath, then you know that he will not die of thirst if water is available.

If they get enough liquid in their food, they may not always drink a lot. When my *Wieteke* lived indoors, sometimes I would see him drinking a lot, and other times it seemed he had little interest in water.

I always made sure he had fresh water available. If you are gone, see if someone can watch over him, if possible.

We rescued our first baby pigeons, *Pidgiepoo* ("*Vanilla*" originally, and *Chocolate*, who died after 13 days) in April 2004. We went somewhere for a week-end (Friday afternoon to Sunday evening: two nights) in mid-June, and had a teenage girl aspiring to be a vet, and the building caretaker check in on Pidgiepoo several times a day.

The caretaker reported that Pidgiepoo was always waiting at the door *(and all of his poops were at the door)*, even though Pidgiepoo would roam the atelier (artist's studio) when we were there. 

We took him home Sunday evening. Not a peep from him then, not a peep Monday. 

I quote from my computer log entry for that day (some details added later for clarity): 

"Vanilla Dove is approximately two months old now, and has been with us since April 30th. Her sibling died on May 13th. Vanilla Dove was at the door of the atelier every time the Pfortner Hr. Biss checked on her. Vanilla Dove didn’t peep for two days after we returned, She flew off the table where she had slept in her tray until now, and came to the bed where she slept near my shoulder. Hilde didn’t want Vanilla Dove to sleep on the bed, but I said that maybe she had certain needs that we don’t know about. She was touching my waist when I woke. At first I thought she wanted warmth, but then I realized she wanted contact for a while."

(She later turned out to be a he).

*Your pigeon probably will need company of some caring human, or some other pigeons around, if that is possible. *(Don't know your set-up).

If that is not possible, see to it that he has several water sources available (even if he poops in a frying pan with an inch or so of water in it, there is still enough water available). 

Be sure someone has a spare key to your place, if possible, and a back-up plan. What if you have an emergency and can't get back for several days, or a week? 

Make sure the pigeon can't get into any cracks or canyons or cul-de-sacs which he can't get out of. Pidgiepoo was chasing a rescue (recuperating from a broken wing, and given to us by a neighbor) around the room and to his surprise found himself at the bottom of a shopping cart (like a small roll-aboard suitcase). I saw him fall in, and had him out in seconds, before what had happened even had time to register with him. (Afterward I reflected that perhaps I should have left him in for around a minute, so that he might learn something from the experience). I had several pigeons in our apartment since Pidgiepo flew away, and no such incidents happened with them. 

I had a recent rescue, a starving, sick pigeon weighing 2/3 normal weight._ To me_, *Gray Eyes* indicated, several times, that he wanted to go to a secluded place, to die in peace. (My interpretations might be wrong). I had been holding him while lying on the bed so that his head and eyes were at a level with mine, for eye contact, for close observation, to keep him warm, and to support his head. He nibbled my fingers a few times. I set him down on a towel rolled into the shape of a torus or doughnut for head support (although he was holding his head up on his own for a bit), and went to the computer eight feet away, with my back to him, to research some more on the internet concerning him (I had completed one paragraph of a response to an e-mail from Pidgey). My wife came in four or five minutes later, asked where's the pigeon? and a frantic search ensued. He had fallen into a crevice about an inch-and-a-half wide, too narrow for my hand to reach into without scratching and bruising. I had earlier blocked off the cracks to avoid such a thing, but had overlooked and had not blocked the area under where my head ususally was, since I did not keep him there. A healthy pigeon could not have gotten into that crevice; only a very emaciated one could have, and only with some effort. He could not breathe, and thus came to his life's end. We were devastated. 

Human habitations are seldom "pigeon-proof" or "pigeon-safe" or even "child-proof." 

Two days ago I looked at a pigeon my wife earlier spotted who had strangled to death in a bit of some green plastic webbing such as is used for bagging lemons and such in supemarkets. It was wrapped around the shoulder of his left wing, his neck, and kept taut by his right foot. Usually I bury dead pigeons and birds I all-too-often come across, but since this occurred near some recyclng containers, I left him, to be observed by others, hopefully to the benefit of other birds. Someone on these forums said that often pigeons tangle in material they are gathering for nests. 

It is hard to anticipate everything that may occur in life, and I know of no one who has done so. 

Larry


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

thank you for the help. i am a worrying kind of person. i just want what is best for the baby. my friend and boyfriend will be checking on him often. the baby will let my boyfriend hold him so my boyfriend is going to play on the computor and hold him for a while during the day. i just did not want the baby to go hungry. as of now he knows how to peck seeds but seems to not get that he should eat them. thank you for making me feel better about leaving him for a bit.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*College Station, Texas*

Imchihal,

Are you an Aggie? C'mon, 'fess up.

I went to UT-Austin for a year ('67-'68) and finished at St. Mary's U in San Antonio, Texas. 

We have had some Aggies in the family, and in spite of their Texas A&M experiences, they seem to be doing okay. But, your being a worrying type of person would thus be partly explained, as it is a well-founded reason for worrying. 

My niece was tops in her A&M class, and wrote her master's thesis on something related to wastewater management, of which I understood not the title nor any of the text, but only the name of the author. 

If you could find us a professor interested in birds and pigeons (with more scope than simply raising poultry for eating) it would be interesting.

Best of luck with your pidgie. 

Larry

Okay, just checked your public profile. Texas A&M Equestrian Team. My, my. Fancy way of saying you know how to ride a horse, perhaps better than some. (I'm probably asking for trouble here, but is this another way of saying you don't own a pick-up?) 

An old friend of mine from Germany (later former employer, and also present landlord who recently made me evict my apartment pigeon) studied graduate economics for a year at A&M in the mid-seventies, after working and studying in San Antonio, where we met. He was at A&M a few weeks when he called me and said, "Larry, I know there are people in the world like this, but I had never before been around them. They are [fanatics]. Everyone stands during the entire football game!" (and other things).

Again, Larry (living in Cologne)


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

yes i am an aggie but not a really fanatic. the traditions are fun and really make the school feel small even though it isn't. my worrying is not aggie related thought. i have always been this way. i do ride horses. i ride english and do show jumping. and no i don't have a truck but my BF does and so i use his.   

i will try to find a prof that is interested in pigeons. 

ok i have a new question about the baby. he has these tiny, tan, long bodies mites in his feathers, i assume they are plumage lice. i know that there are a lot of sprays and stuff for this. a previous post had a link that said to use chevi-tren. what is this and is it in the sprays? any suggestions on the best way to get rid of them on the baby or the best brand of spray?


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

*my wits end!!*

i am so frustrated. i cannot get this baby to eat seed. i have tried everything. for a while i thought he was eating it but now i think he has just been pushing it around and pushing it under his towel. i have tried mixing a higher percentage each day into his formula. i have tried "pecking" with him. i have tried the shot glass. he pick up the seed but WILL NOT eat it. it is like a toy or maybe he just doesn't get it. 
sorry for the rant. i just don't know what to do anymore. i can't spend my entire life feeding him by hand and being scratched, pecked on, and swatted with his wings. 

that aside i am now worried about his health. he always squeeks at me but today when i got home he had escaped from his area and created havock. he is now making a honking sound when he squeeks. his is able to breath fine and the sound is only during the squeek. i think it is during the exhale and not the inhale. what do i do about him? Is this a normal growing up change in his voice? i read that in another post but it still worries me.  

if the baby is this old shouldn't he be eating on his own by now for goodness sakes? 
is it posible that it just looks like he is not eating? 
i cut his feedings to encourage him to eat. when i go to feed him his crop is sometimes almost empty. i don't think that he would just not eat if he knew how.  

i just need help. this not eating seed think is driving me nuts. 

i really like him but i want him to grow up, be healthy, and move away. just like any other child. 
any info about the honk would be great and any other tricks about getting him to eat seed would be sooooo great.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The honk is normal, he is growing into a teenager now. Congratulations.
I love it when they honk, it's so cute and funny.
He should be eating on his own by now.
Try not to feed him in the morning, he should be hungry then and maybe will pick up some seeds. He will eventually.
Is he drinking water on his own?

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We have a fledgling who is still squeaking but will soon be "honking". We feed him 20 cc in the morning and about 35 cc at night. During the day he has seed and water and has started eating on his own really well. We did try him on one feeding a day (night) but he seemed so hungry that we went back to feeding him in the mornings.

Don't worry, he will start eating on his own and it won't be too long. Just make sure he always has seed available and watch his weight when you're trying to wean him.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Any day now you're going to just about faint when you realize that your little one's crop is CHOCK full of seed and that s/he managed to put all that seed in there all by his/herself. It seems that once they get the hang of it, they go for the gusto until the novelty of self feeding wears off. Actually, you do need to pay attention when that most eagerly awaited day arrives to be sure the young bird is also drinking sufficient water and that the crop empties and doesn't become impacted.

The honking is quite normal .. I have a lovely and tame youngster now that I call Donkey Bird because s/he sounds a whole lot like a donkey braying  

Terry


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

thanks for the info. i have been feeding him fewer times a day to encourage him to try the seed. i have seen him drink when taking a bath but not when in his area. i am sure he know where the water is so if he is thirsty he will drink. thanks for letting me know the honk is normal. when you are not expecting something and it happens out of nowhere it can scare the crud out on you. he baby is doing well otherwise. i am treating his feather mites and he is maintaining his weight fairly well with the fewer feedings. 
thanks again for letting me know that he is alright and that i am doing things correctly.


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

*the long awaited day!! sad but great*

the baby is feeding himself. he is no longer even interested in me feeding him. i am so glad that i don't have to worry any more. 

ok it can't be all happy. now i have to figure out what do do with him. i was hoping to return him to a flock but he loves people. he will fly to anyone. i worry that he might do this out in the world and get into a lot of trouble. i know he needs companions. 
are there people that have others that would want a feral? 
i hope so. i just want him to have the best life he can. i guess it is about time to post him for adoption. 
does anyone have suggestions about where not to place him? other than to make sure i meet the people and see where he will be kept. i know to ask lots of questions. i have placed dogs before but i guess i worry more about him. there aren't many shelters for abused pigeons. any advice would be great.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sounds like he is not releasable.
I would suggest to post in our adoption section and see who responds.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Imchihal, can't tell you how much I've enjoyed reading this thread  . I guess
just some of the issues that come up.....many have had....these are just such
fun characters to get to know. He sounds like a kick. If you can resist keeping
him yourself, and you can't find anyone locally, I'm sure he'll find a home thru
our adoption section.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You might try Val at the Pigeon Place in Burleson TX: http://www.pigeonplace.com/

Terry


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

*issues*

i am so sad to give the baby up.  unfortunatly i am a college student with two dogs, one of which really wants to eat him. she has been eyeing him since he arrived. the thing i am most concerned about is that he spends most of his time alone in a cage. i have to have him put up or my dogs have to be put up. he flies all over the house when out, if i let him. when i can i take him outside for some fresh air. he just spends to much time alone. i just know that as much as i want to keep him, i cannot give him the home he needs. the best i could ever do is get him a good cage and a friend, but he would still spend most of him time in the cage. i would love to have some comments about my issue. i just need some advise on if i should keep him or if the best thing i can do is find him a better home. any advise would make me feel better. i have put this off for so long b/c i just don't like my options but i have to do something.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Lauren, 


Well, if you can find somewhere that hosts a feral Flock, and go there and scope it out...

Then, bring Seeds and you start feeding the feral Flock also, and, bring your Bird in his cage and set him there so the grazing Ferals and he can be inches apart...

Do this four or five times, seperate occasions as closely spaced day-wise as reasonable for your schedule...then when you do it the next time, at the beginning just before you put out Seed for everyone, open the door of the Cage and let yours self-release. You just stay there keeping an eye on everything for a while, then leave.

Most likely he will get on out of the Cage and join the pecking-grazing others, and be quite content to remain with them and go and roost with the various bachlors and bachlorettes and so on..

BUT, if you do elect to do this, make sure to do the four or five 'warm ups' with him in his cage amid them, first...

If he flys 'home' to you instead of staying with them, then at least you tried...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## lmchihal (Oct 17, 2006)

*now up for adoption. so sad*

I have finally posted the baby up for adoption under the subject "looking for a good home, TX". I am sad that I am posting him but I am not providing a good enough home for him. he is young, strong and active. he has all the food and clean water he could want and a cage that has perches, cuddle areas, and a box that he loves. he just does not get the attention that he needs. i am gone so much. I think he needs other pigeons. I tried releasing him in December, but he returned without his tail feathers. (at least he came home) he is just alone to much. if i do not have any responce to my post by the time it warms up, i will try releaseing him again. maybe he will be able to stay wild this time. If anyone knows someone that would want a young feral, please let me know. I am in Texas and would go as far as i need to for him to get to the right home. i will post some new pics of him soon so that thoses that remember our issues early on can see how great he as grown up to be.


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