# 8x4,8x6,8x8



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

For those of you who have built a starter loft. Now that its done are you satisfied with the size or would you have made it another size.


----------



## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Your first loft is "NEVER" large enough or enough sections.
You THINKyou know what you want--BUT you will cahnge something.
Use screws--easier to take apart when you change things.


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

That advise is sooo good! Heed it. LOL


----------



## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

You'll always want more space. I extended mine from a 4x8x6 to a 4x16x6 within a year. I would build another 4xx16x6 if I had the yard space and if the wife would allow it....lol.

If you have the realestate build it big enough to have at least 3 4x8x6 sections.


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

3 1/2x15x5 right behind the other and dont tell her. ; )
Dave


----------



## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

I built a 4x8 starter and use screws on it. I will be redoing it soon. Build the largest one you can budget. You will never have enough space. I teamed up with a race with a large loft. The only good thing about a 4x8 is it cleans up fast.
Logangrmnr


----------



## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> 3 1/2x15x5 right behind the other and dont tell her. ; )
> Dave


I like your thinking there Dave!


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2010)

the bigger the better is always the way to go when making aloft


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks for everyone's advice. I'd still be interested to know that if my only choice was 8x6 or 8x8 would the extra room in that direction be of any value.


----------



## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

I built the Red Rose modified to 8x6 instead of 8x4..
It is still not big enough!! Will probably need at least another 8x6 and if I do build another I will try for a 12x6 with keeping the original 8x6 for a breeder loft


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes the biger loft would be better you need 3 sections 4 would be better. You need 2 breeding sections so you can separate them. With 4 sections you can have old birds and young birds, if you have to fly them together you will lose some of the young when you try to settle them.
Dave


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

go with the 8x8....


----------



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

8x8 minimum. 

We are starting the castle this weekend. 24x32 built in 4x8 modules for the birds. The loft will be house in the upper story of our 35x50 barn. Aviaries will be 25x4x4 suspended from the upper window frames. I expect that I will never really complete this and will instead spend the rest of my life "fixing" one feature at a time. 

This is what we decided would "do" after our 8x8 quickly ran out of space. 

No, we are not normal.


----------



## Reiki3 (Nov 2, 2009)

*So very true.*

I haven't even finished my addition and I can see all the places I would have changed it already. When you think about the difference between an 
8' 2" X 4" and a 10' one it doesn't cost that much more to gain two or four more feet in size. On a (8 X 12 loft) if you go with two feet you’re talking about one sheet of siding and flooring, six longer 2 X 4's and seven longer 
2 X 8's. Less then $75.00.


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

What you didn't state in your question was what you are keeping pigeons for.
Obviously a racers space needs are probably different from a for profit breeders needs or a backyard pleasure flyer's needs.

So what is it ?


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Sorry....I'm wanting to race young birds next year. If I go with 8x8 how would you divide it.


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I fly for pleasure so the 8x4 starter loft is a good size for the 15 - 20 birds I keep. Clean up is the most bothersome and time consuming task for me, I wont go bigger because that would increase the least desirable aspect of pigeon keeping for me.

I am sure the racing fraternity here will give you great insight into what your racing needs will be.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

maniac said:


> I fly for pleasure so the 8x4 starter loft is a good size for the 15 - 20 birds I keep. Clean up is the most bothersome and time consuming task for me, I wont go bigger because that would increase the least desirable aspect of pigeon keeping for me.
> 
> I am sure the racing fraternity here will give you great insight into what your racing needs will be.


How long does it take you to clean your loft. Just wondering


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I clean on average about once a week. It takes me pretty much all morning. That may not seem a lot specially considering that I am retired but my days are pretty full, more than when I worked full time.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I cleaned my loft yesterday it took 45 min.That's scraping the perches, scrape the slat floor then take the paper out under the slats and role it up. Sweep the inside out and replace the paper, wash the feeders and dry them. Yep 45 min. I do this about every 20 days. I have 15 birds in there now.


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

One thing I am going to try this winter is putting down a sheet of heavy plastic on the loft floor. That way I am hoping that I can just pull it out and shake the crap off. Most winter days are below freezing and the crap sticks and hardens like concrete on the wood floors and practically needs to be chiseled off.

I think wood floors are a mistake when building a loft and I am seriously going to look at pouring a concrete slab over my existing floor and tiling the bottom 12 inches of the walls so that I can get in there with a hose or pressure washer.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> One thing I am going to try this winter is putting down a sheet of heavy plastic on the loft floor. That way I am hoping that I can just pull it out and shake the crap off. Most winter days are below freezing and the crap sticks and hardens like concrete on the wood floors and practically needs to be chiseled off.
> 
> I think wood floors are a mistake when building a loft and I am seriously going to look at pouring a concrete slab over my existing floor and tiling the bottom 12 inches of the walls so that I can get in there with a hose or pressure washer.



Cement isn't a great floor for inside the loft. It holds dampness which is unhealthy for the birds. Have you tried using Belgium White, or floor white or another of the things you can sweep on the floor to keep it dry? It also makes the poops come up easier.


----------



## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I spent six months reading and researching, my loft 6'X12' with a 6'6" height, (I'm 6'3") is the size I needed for White Homers. I need 21 birds alway ready to fly and three breeding pair keeping the supply up. For a one loft set up this is fine. If I get into racing it will become a young bird loft and I'll have to build a breeder loft.

Tony

PS hard part is keeping the numbers down to fit the loft, thank you for dummy eggs.


----------



## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

maniac said:


> One thing I am going to try this winter is putting down a sheet of heavy plastic on the loft floor. That way I am hoping that I can just pull it out and shake the crap off. Most winter days are below freezing and the crap sticks and hardens like concrete on the wood floors and practically needs to be chiseled off.
> 
> I think wood floors are a mistake when building a loft and I am seriously going to look at pouring a concrete slab over my existing floor and tiling the bottom 12 inches of the walls so that I can get in there with a hose or pressure washer.


My loft is 18" off the ground with 2" slats and a 1/4" gap between them. I hose off the floor, poop fall between the gaps on a bed of pinestraw, which I rake up and put around the bushes every other month.

Tony


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

maniac said:


> I fly for pleasure so the 8x4 starter loft is a good size for the 15 - 20 birds I keep. Clean up is the most bothersome and time consuming task for me, I wont go bigger because that would increase the least desirable aspect of pigeon keeping for me.
> 
> I am sure the racing fraternity here will give you great insight into what your racing needs will be.


I can see why, I don't put more than 9 in my 8x4 section and it is scraped everyday... can't imagine the mess you have with almost 20 in an 8x4! and only doing it once a week... oh my!

It takes less time doing it more often and not over crowding, I have almost 40 birds in a 8x16 and scrape everyday.. it takes maybe 20 mins...


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> I can see why, I don't put more than 9 in my 8x4 section and it is scraped everyday... *can't imagine the mess you have with almost 20 in an 8x4! and only doing it once a week... oh my!
> 
> It takes less time doing it more often and not over crowding,* I have almost 40 birds in a 8x16 and scrape everyday.. it takes maybe 20 mins...


I agree. If you scrape it often, it only takes a few minutes. Can't imagine doing it once a week. That would be hard labor.


----------



## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

Must be retired. I go to work in the dark and come home in the dark all winter long. 
So I pretty much only have the weekend to clean.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Kalkbl said:


> Must be retired. I go to work in the dark and come home in the dark all winter long.
> So I pretty much only have the weekend to clean.


I work 7 hour days, and it does get dark early in the winter...I just do it anyway... flash light if need be...lol...


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, you could pick up one of those bright lamps that run by battery. People use them for camping. Of course it does help to have electricity in the loft, I must admit.


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I suppose there are many different situations which call for a few varied solutions, the "one size fits all" equation doesn't apply to every one. If I had to face the prospect of cleaning up every single day, pigeon keeping would not be a pleasure for long. I clean once weekly which fits _my_ schedule. It is a thorough cleaning. When I read of people cleaning lofts 4x8 or bigger in twenty minutes I have to wonder how good a job they do. I suppose it's possible if that person is an energetic young man, suffering from a little myopia who cleans only what he sees.
Just walking out to the loft, picking up the waterers, bringing them inside, cleaning them and replacing them has to take 10 minutes. That leaves only 20 minutes to scrape and brush the floors, perches ledges etc, clean the windows and check the loft. I call bull**** !.

I have no doubt that some people clean their lofts almost daily and I know that other people clean weekly, bi-monthly and monthly. Some posters on this forum do their darndest to alienate and belittle other keepers only because they dare to do things their own way.

Some of these same posters continually repeat old wives tales about cracked corn causing canker without having one iota of evidence that it is true.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I was talking about scraping poops and sweeping. My windows and walls don't get cleaned every day. And the boxes that do have to be moved to get under, I save for the weekend. And the walls when I can. I like a clean loft, not a sterile one. LOL. You could never do all that in just a short time. I also have extra waterers, so I just replace them. When I leave, I bring them in and clean and soak with bleach water.


----------



## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

It takes me 35 min to scrape out a 10x25 race loft, feed, and fill 3 plastic water jugs. I do this ever day for only 153 racers. But we only use 3 out of the 4 sections and its not breeding season. Then it takes a lot longer. Funny thing is my 4x8 loft takes longer to clean. I think it's the stool i bring in the small loft that does it and picking up a bird or all to look at. Plus i clean the race loft in between my stops at work and have a system down. But don't get me wrong every now and then i just feed and don't scrape but get it the next day. 
Logangrmnr


----------



## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I had a similar question in spring was torn between a 8 x 4 and 8 x 8, anyways I'm working on my 12 x 10 loft hopefully to have birds next year. 8 x 8 is probably best if your racing or showing because you could split it into 3 sections, but if you just want some for fun I think an 8 x 6 will do it. (Can split that 8 x 8 into one 8 x 4 racing section and two 4 x 4 sections that can connect with a sliding door to separate cocks and hens.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

maniac said:


> I suppose there are many different situations which call for a few varied solutions, the "one size fits all" equation doesn't apply to every one. If I had to face the prospect of cleaning up every single day, pigeon keeping would not be a pleasure for long. I clean once weekly which fits _my_ schedule. It is a thorough cleaning. When I read of people cleaning lofts 4x8 or bigger in twenty minutes I have to wonder how good a job they do. I suppose it's possible if that person is an energetic young man, suffering from a little myopia who cleans only what he sees.
> Just walking out to the loft, picking up the waterers, bringing them inside, cleaning them and replacing them has to take 10 minutes. That leaves only 20 minutes to scrape and brush the floors, perches ledges etc, clean the windows and check the loft. I call bull**** !.
> 
> I have no doubt that some people clean their lofts almost daily and I know that other people clean weekly, bi-monthly and monthly. Some posters on this forum do their darndest to alienate and belittle other keepers only because they dare to do things their own way.
> ...


why would I bull **** you?.. lol.. the point is, it is easier on the keeper and takes less time if done everyday or even everyother, and not so big of a job as when one would wait a week, esp if you have overcrowding.. why don't you try it for a week and see how you like it, this is a helpful tip, not a lecture.. another plus side for doing it everyday is cocci.. scraping often is a preventative as has been published.....


"Coccidia is shed in cycles. One day there will be a lot in the bird’s fecal and the next day very few. You can get fooled from day to day. Individual birds vary greatly in their level of infection. Unless you are going to check each and every bird on your team you will miss some with large numbers. If you have any coccidia, as the stress of racing and training goes on you will soon have a ton.
You should treat and keep it under control. Remember, coccidia is not infective when it is first passed in the droppings. It has to sit around for a couple of days first. So, scrape your loft every day and you should have a minimal coccidia problem"
"


----------



## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I can scrape my perches and all horizonals in ten minutes. My nest boxes are lined with newspaper and I fold over and throw away each week when nesting. My floor I hose off each weekend. Under my perches and nestboxes is a wire floor so poop drops all the way to the ground. I rake up the pinestraw every other month and replace. Being in Georgia make it easier because of an open loft. My loft is designed so everything is quickly scraped to the floor and the floor is spaced so everything can fall thru to the ground. Makes my cleaning easy and quick.

Tony


----------



## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

*why don't you try it for a week and see how you like it,*

I guess the easy answer is to say I have a life, a very full life Spirit Wings.
I am retired but my wife isn't so I do my share of housekeeping. I cook, clean, make beds, wash windows etc. I am also the go to guy for looking after any one of my 7 grandkids in a pinch. I am also the guy who cuts the grass, plants flowers and does house repairs. I take care of the pool ...... I guess you have the idea now huh ?

As I said, One size does _not_ fit all.

Big T. I know Georgia pretty well as I have family in Griffin, Smyrna and around Powder Springs. I have seen your winters a few times and believe me we don't compare. Slat/wire floors would be my preferred floor system if it was practical but here in Quebec in the winter it probably would be a bird killer.

I have a perching board that pulls out in seconds and that can be hosed down. I am looking at having all of my perches moveable like that, hook them off the wall and take them outside for a quick hosing and brushing. I also figure there must be a way put a removable floor covering down that could be treated the same way.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> *why don't you try it for a week and see how you like it,*
> 
> I guess the easy answer is to say I have a life, a very full life Spirit Wings.
> I am retired but my wife isn't so I do my share of housekeeping. I cook, clean, make beds, wash windows etc. I am also the go to guy for looking after any one of my 7 grandkids in a pinch. I am also the guy who cuts the grass, plants flowers and does house repairs. I take care of the pool ...... I guess you have the idea now huh ?
> ...



Could you put down wide strips of linoleum that you could lift out of the loft? 
Not sure how your loft is set up or how wide it is.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

maniac said:


> *why don't you try it for a week and see how you like it,*
> 
> I guess the easy answer is to say I have a life, a very full life Spirit Wings.
> I am retired but my wife isn't so I do my share of housekeeping. I cook, clean, make beds, wash windows etc. I am also the go to guy for looking after any one of my 7 grandkids in a pinch. I am also the guy who cuts the grass, plants flowers and does house repairs. I take care of the pool ...... I guess you have the idea now huh ?
> ...


I hear ya, If you want to spend MORE time out in the loft then stick with what works for you... I have had to cut back on a few things myself to make time to do what I think is more important... which is not the same for everyone... my pigeons just happen to be high up there.


----------



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I might offer that "cleaning every day" isn't the same as "sanitize the loft everyday". We clean every day, but that pretty much means scrape crap off the floor, perches, waterers and other "easy" places. We do this as part of our regular bird time. The birds sit around and watch us or, in the flying loft, they are out flying around. We spend all of 15 minutes per loft getting things "cleaner than they were". 

Once a week we strip everything down and go to town. That takes us an hour. But we put some things in place in the beginning to keep the time short. For example
• All nest boxes have removable trays lined with paper.
• All perches are stacked and 2.5" diameter circle (no poop on them)
• All flat areas that may be used for perching are covered with paper (taped down)
• Plasticized sealer (stuff comes off easy)
• Disposable waterers - recycled milk jugs. Toss em, don't clean em. 

Cleaning for us really isn't that tough. 

One other point that I would offer. We view our birds as pets as much as racers. When we are cleaning we are getting to spend time with them. A few will even perch on hats, tool handles, or shoulders while we work. This includes our "new to us" breeders. If you haven't noticed the plural pronouns, I not only get to spend quality time with the birds, but my son is right there with me. If he isn't there then my daughter or wife are there. Chores are only chores if you let be that way.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaysen said:


> I might offer that "cleaning every day" isn't the same as "sanitize the loft everyday". We clean every day, but that pretty much means scrape crap off the floor, perches, waterers and other "easy" places. We do this as part of our regular bird time. The birds sit around and watch us or, in the flying loft, they are out flying around. We spend all of 15 minutes per loft getting things "cleaner than they were".
> 
> Once a week we strip everything down and go to town. That takes us an hour. But we put some things in place in the beginning to keep the time short. For example
> • All nest boxes have removable trays lined with paper.
> ...


I love your attitude! You are so right. I love spending time with my birds, and get to play with them as I work. They are all over me when I'm in there. Now how can you count that as work? And when you have a living breathing animal that you keep, then taking care of its needs shouldn't be considered work. If it is, than you just aren't enjoying them. They should be one of your priorities. If not, then you're missing a lot. And you also get to spend time with your kids, which makes it even better. I think that's great. Loved this comment.Thanks.


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

*Milk Jugs*

How do you make milk jug waterers?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They take a gallon milk jug, and about I think it is 2 1/2 inches up from the bottom, they cut the holes for the pigeons to put their heads through to drink. You need to make them large enough for them to drink comfortably, but not so large that they can get in and take a bath.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Sounds to me that making milk jugs up all the time is way to much hassle. I got 2 waterers and keep one in clorox water and change them out each day. milk jugs wouldn't hold much water and my birds would dump them over not enough weight once some of the water is out.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Sounds to me that making milk jugs up all the time is way to much hassle. I got 2 waterers and keep one in clorox water and change them out each day. milk jugs wouldn't hold much water and my birds would dump them over not enough weight once some of the water is out.


I agree with you. I bring one in, soak it in bleach water, and bring another one out. Only have to soak it for 10 minutes to kill all bacteria. Making them all the time would be more work to me too. I mean, they don't really cost much and last an awful long time.


----------



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Shady

I use a cookie cutter and an Xacto knife. ONly takes a minute. The larger pain is cleaning the jugs prior to use. 1tbsp clorox, 1/4 cup water. shake, rinse, let dry. We typically use the jugs for water before it is a waterer.

As to the tip factor we keep them next to something like a corner in the wall or against our grit/mineral holder. So far no spills. 

In the castle I will be using a halfed 4" pvc with a float and a stopper to make a more flexible waterer. Once I get it set up I will try to share it.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Jaysen said:


> Shady
> 
> I use a cookie cutter and an Xacto knife. ONly takes a minute. The larger pain is cleaning the jugs prior to use. 1tbsp clorox, 1/4 cup water. shake, rinse, let dry. We typically use the jugs for water before it is a waterer.
> 
> ...


That waterer sounds good you just have to cover it somehow so no poop gets in it


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> I agree with you. I bring one in, soak it in bleach water, and bring another one out. Only have to soak it for 10 minutes to kill all bacteria. Making them all the time would be more work to me too. I mean, they don't really cost much and last an awful long time.


Actually its 20 min to kill all bacteria I work in a water treatment plant and 20 min detention time for CL2 chlorine. I leave mine in until i water again.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Loft advice would be larger the better. I would not make it more than what you can reach across. So 6 feet wide would be what I would do. The guys in Belg have sliders that block their lofts off into thinner sections. They may have lofts 8 feet wide but they can close them off about 5 feet wide. This allows you to catch the birds. All my lofts are 5 feet wide, makes it easy to catch birds. My new loft is 7 feet wide. Not that easy. I would do 8x6. Makes materials easier to use. 4x8 siding splits in 4s and 2s much better. so your sides of a 6 foot loft would need three sheets one split down the middle. 

Randy


----------



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> That waterer sounds good you just have to cover it somehow so no poop gets in it


The waterer will be external to the loft and accessed by the birds like the troughs in the shipping trucks using 2x3 20ga fencing. I use that on my settling cage and the birds have no issues getting heads in and out*. I intend to mount it about 3 feet off the loft floor, opposite nest-boxes/perches at the level of the trap. Trap, get drink, see mate. 

As to cleaning, the pipe will be removable, including the float valve. That will allow for bleaching the internal parts of the valve. We intend to use gravity feed based on 5 gal waterers. This will allow us to have several pre-made water options available with minimal effort to restock (AVC, garlic, straight, medicated). The only part that I don't like is how to flush the whole feeder lines with bleach adequately. Like my birds to much to risk keeping 5 gal of dilute bleach up there. 

As I have said previously, I am spoiled with a large pre-existing building with electricity and heaters. 

* The settling cage is only used while we are out monitoring the birds. Do not use large openings like this if you are not going to be actively monitoring. If you DO have the ability to actively monitor, do it with peanuts, corn, and peas. All our birds were hand fed treats in the settling cage. They will let us pick them up off the landing board or the ground these days without needing a bribe. Just be sure not to over feed them one they start flying.


----------



## minister man (Mar 13, 2012)

Big T said:


> I spent six months reading and researching, my loft 6'X12' with a 6'6" height, (I'm 6'3") is the size I needed for White Homers. I need 21 birds alway ready to fly and three breeding pair keeping the supply up. For a one loft set up this is fine. If I get into racing it will become a young bird loft and I'll have to build a breeder loft.
> 
> Tony
> 
> PS hard part is keeping the numbers down to fit the loft, thank you for dummy eggs.


That is about the same size that I want to be with my white homers too. I am brand new at this and would love to know how you manage your birds BigT to be able to accomplish keeping 20 birds ready to fly at all times.


----------

