# My hens are dying. Please help!!!!



## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Hi everyone.
We started raising pigeons in Los Angeles, California over 15 years ago. I moved back to New Orleans 7 years ago, and my fiance' and the pigeons moved to New Orleans July 2014. Around the 12th of December I noticed two of my hens in the corner fluffed up and shaking. I immediately took them out of the loft and isolated them. I started them on ten and one (capsule) and the ideal pill. 3 days later they die. They have food in their crop. It seems like they're wasting away. I wormed them previously. I disinfected my loft. I never had this problem. One day they look healthy, eating. the next few days they start fluffing up and shaking. They will eat, and yet they die. Please help me. I don't know what to do. They are one year old hens. My cocks are doing fine. They are in the same loft, but they are separated across from the hens.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Not sure ,but i would have looked for an egg not passed.Stress can cause some REAL problems with egg laying after a move (Resettling in a new place stress)
Just a thought. If you still have one, or it happens again, do some looking.
I am guessing this because it is happening to just the Hens.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for your response, but the hens are separated from the cocks. They are eating, but they are wasting. We too have Birmingham Rollers. This is stressing me out. Could it be the environment? The mosquitoes? So far I have lost 10 hens and counting from this unknown disease/virus


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Just a guess, if it is just hens, that is a strange coincidence.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If not something related to egg problems as LUCKYT mentioned, I would be looking for something in the hen area of your loft that is causing health problems. Perhaps a hole that rodents are able to enter "infecting" the hen side with rodent feces which can cause paratyphoid. Perhaps some type of insect that may be in the hen area and is biting them. Aspergillosis perhaps. Some type of plant that the hens are pecking that is making them sick.

I would have a veterinarian do a necropsy on one of the deceased birds and see if you can determine the cause and then develop a treatment plan to resolve whatever it is. It would also be helpful to have a fecal and blood work done from one or more of the birds. It is kind of pointless to guess as there are so many things that could be causing the hens to become ill and die. It's also just my opinion that the multi-purpose treatments like the 10 in 1, 3 in 1, 4 in 1 and similar types of treatments are not likely to solve the problem. A specific illness needs to be treated with the specific drug or drugs that will cure the illness.

I'm sorry for your losses and your sick birds.

Terry


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

If they are fluffed up, it means they feel cold, because they don't feed enough. What you mean by shaking? Vomiting? What is the aspect of droppings?

You first have to put them in artificially warmed environment (heated pad). 
If there is a change in droppings aspect, it means is some digestive infectious disease, which usually is salmonella or canker but it also can be something viral, adenovirus, which would explain the fast spread of the disease.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

AndreiS said:


> If they are fluffed up, it means they feel cold, because they don't feed enough. What you mean by shaking? Vomiting? What is the aspect of droppings?
> 
> You first have to put them in artificially warmed environment (heated pad).
> If there is a change in droppings aspect, it means is some digestive infectious disease, which usually is salmonella or canker but it also can be something viral, adenovirus, which would explain the fast spread of the disease.


 Listen to Terry! I think looking at the environmental aspects and testing is the way to go. there is NO sickness that infects only Hens, at least none i have heard of in my life time.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi

I really think the most simplest way to go would be to have a dropping sample tested . It's relatively inexpensive here but I am unsure of the cost in your neck of the woods.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Are the hens moulting by any chance, if so see your pm thanks.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

adrean41 said:


> Thanks for your response, but the hens are separated from the cocks. They are eating, but they are wasting. We too have Birmingham Rollers. This is stressing me out. Could it be the environment? The mosquitoes? So far I have lost 10 hens and counting from this unknown disease/virus


I too raise Birminghams, and every year I lose birds when a small black biting mosquito shows up in this area. The birds will be healthy one day and dead in three days or less. My loses usually stop when it gets cold enough to make the mosquitoes inactive in my area. I don't have this problem again until the next fall when the those small black mosquitoes show up again. It usually begins here in late July early August and ends in late September early October.

I also think that once you get an infected bird the disease moves on to other birds when they peck feathers and skin off the dying bird. The reason I believe this is that I would have no losses in my cock bird pen and one or two dead in my hen pen every day until I finally had it isolated. Then it would hit the cock pen and repeat the same problem. You are correct in isolating them when they become sick. Once I started observing every bird in the loft, and isolating those that even looked like they weren't feeling well the losses went down.

I never had this problem until West Nile virus showed up in this country. I know they say that pigeons are not susceptable to West Nile, but I have to wonder if not all breeds have immunity with rollers being one of them. 

Mosquitoes are a real problem in this area. This year for the first time in my forty years of raising pigeons I also fought a round with pox that killed eight or nine of my late hatch youngsters. Those deaths also stopped with colder weather. I am about fifty miles north of Houston Texas. I think you may be further south than I am, so the problem could linger on longer into the winter in your area.

I have used citronella, malathion, and Dawn dry sheets in the loft with limited success. I have also used garlic in the water with a little more success, but nothing I have tried has completely stopped this disease. A few years back this part of Texas and further north suffered through a terrible drought for about two years. The bird losses slowed way down in those years with me only losing a couple of birds each year.

I definitely think that if you can stop the mosquitoes from getting to them it will stop the losses.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

My loft is 5 feet off the ground. Nothing can get in. What I mean by shaking is like they're cold.They are not vomiting I checked the droppings and they are normal, and they're not moulting. Thinking back, after I separated my cocks from my hens, three of my cocks died. I have disinfected my loft numerous times. Can I buy/order a kit to test the droppings. If so, where? I appreciate all of the response that I received from you all. Before I go into my loft, I pray that I didn't lose another hen overnight. It hurts.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Foys will do a culture for 40 bucks plus your shipping go on their site, collect the material as per there instructions and send via courier.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Its really bad,adrean.
Sudden deaths usually account to something viral. Could be adeno virus+e.coli. Do you give yeast or yogurt to your birds regularly. It could be young bird sickness too.
Please post pics of your birds droppings. Open your birds' beak and state what abnornal you see inside. They got to showing other symptoms too,you need to observe and state them. Things are out of control,I would contact a specialised avain vet.

For now please heat your loft. I would give birds FRESHLY extracted carrot juice in drinking water in 50:50 ratio


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

This is my loft.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Beautiful loft... If I lived where you do,
I would have at least 2, 24'' fans pulling air though it, and screens were possible. I live were it is COLD, and run I my Fans all Year. 
Won't help your current problem, BUT I would bet Money, it never happens again.....


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks.
I have vents with screens all around my loft, from the bottom to the top. The back of the loft is facing the river that is about two blocks away, so we get a lot of of cool air from the river. My fiance' will build a screen for the front window. Before we clean the loft, we put all our pigeons in the flight pen and close the flight windows so they cant't come in. By us having a solar panel, we are able to use fans to help us dry the loft faster.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

More fans..... More than you would ever think necessary.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Have the birds been throwing up the feed. Have you PMV vaccinated your birds. Can you get reg, Sulmet. Are the birds shaking very much. Do any haeswelling in there joints Or bumps on there wings. How does there throat look. As you said you have lost both cocks and hens. So it is effecting both Just lost more hens.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

The more I think about it your loft is in a real risky spot without you installing fans. (Dampness) Dampness and dust our a Pigeons worst enemy.
In your location Dust should not be an issue... BUT in that part of the country near a River? I would have at LEAST 2 or 3, 24" box fans exhausting air OUT of your Loft to keep it dry, and also to keep the Mosquitoes from feeding on your Birds during the Summer. Your Loft location and set up would scare the Bejesus out of me,if it housed my Birds











This Pair of Birmingham Roller, INSISTS on roosting in front of one of the fans all Night IN JANUARY IN CHICAGO AREA
Photo taken 1/3/2015 (today)
Dave


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I would worry more about getting the birds well First then you can look into ventilation. And box fans have open motors. Meaning they are not weather tight. And in LA, you get plenty of rain. Which can short the motor out.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry I thought i made it clear it would not help the current problem.
But just probably keep some of the rest alive. My fans are installed in the windows of my loft no Problems.
I did not expect any one to agree, no one but one person has since the mid 90's.... I spent time in that part of the country the Humidity and Dampness is ungodly.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Believe it or not, it is better to correct the problem first, otherwise you will be treating sick Birds all the time.
I Read the first post again, these birds have not lived a full season in that type of humidity. they came from California, I presume a dry part?


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

If your birds are eating and losing weight after you medicated then put them on ACV at 2 1/2 tablespoons per gallon for a few days. It may buy some time for you or possibly work if it is in the digestive system .
Kurps


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

After I separated the hens from the cocks, three cocks died. So what ever's causing the illness at this point is only affecting the hens, therefore it's something on their side of the loft (which I have disinfected daily since the unknown virus/disease started). Although I did not lose a hen yesterday, I lost one today. I noticed that she was fluffed up in the corner shaking slightly. I also noticed dampness to her feathers (head and back). My pigeons are originally from Los Angeles California, which is dry. Raining is at a minimum ( about once or twice annually). A very tropical state. I rarely had to give them anything, except before breeding. They were very healthy birds before we relocated. They have not been vaccinated against the PMV ( I have some on the way). There is no swelling or vomiting. I contacted Foys and I'm mailing the droppings to get tested. I want to thank everyone who responded to my cry for help. There's so much more to learn from these beautiful creatures, and I'm all in. Do anyone know of a book that I can purchase about the signs symptoms and medications for pigeons?


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

You shouldn't be disinfecting the loft everyday , IMO . I can't see the loft being able to fully dry . I just replaced my aviary section because I caught a bird pecking at the wood . I looked from the inside and saw the board was rotting . These 2 hens were eating pieces of the rotting wood and always had an upper respitory problem . New aviary and the 2 hens were right as rain .Are the lofts you have now newly constructed or used ? There are plenty of good books out there for you to buy , ask Jerry what he recommends at foys. As a matter of fact , it wouldn't hurt to run the symptoms by him for his advice for the mean time .
Kurps

Added; I have gotten birds from different parts of the country and they adjust to the climate fine so I don't see the climate difference as being the reason for your loses. Retrace everything . Maybe it's a fungus in your feed . Check storage and or feed sitting on loft floor overnight .


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Ronald ( my fiance') built the loft. All of the wood was bought new. We changed the feed from Purina maintenance to condition. There is enough time for drying. I'm not saturating the perches or floor, I've been scraping down the perches and wiping them down daily as well as changing the cedar shavings that I have on the floor. As I stated in my previous post they started dying in December 2014, We arrived with them in July 2014. The feed is in the original bag off the floor in a well ventilated area.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I wouldn't disinfect for 2 days at least and see if anymore get sick . Secondly take out the cedar shavings . Odds are a million to one the birds are eating them and you want to eliminate any cause you can. I have seen bad shaving and also the fumes of cedar on top of possible disinfectant fumes . I have heard that too much cedar smell is no good for pigeons. That's why go to basics . It will also give you a better look at the droppings . You will beat this .
Kurps


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Please keep your loft as dry as possible,adrean. Don't use cedar shavings they can cause problems with fumes when get wet.
Do share with us what they find at Foys.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I saw your loft and must say it is a very good looking loft indeed. I Reread your post and believe the last hen was vomiting . It may just be water or both and the others are eating the vomited feed before you see it. That's why she was all wet. To check this , go into the loft with a flashlight in the morning before light. You will see feed on the ground if they are. Also why it is a good idea to leave out shavings at this point. Are the hens crops filled with water ? 
Kurps


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yeah, I asked to observe and state more symptoms that birds got to be showing. But adrean41 couldn't manage to do so.
You know what guys, such a ditto, similar, exact, same to same situation occurred in a fanciers' loft here and it was worms to blame- roundworm infestation to be exact! That guy lost 3 pigeons on average for a week until he located me for advice at last.


I'm waiting on the results from Foys!


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

I can only state the symptoms that I observed, and I did in my previous posts. I have never encountered an issue like this in my loft since we began years ago. I was not able to get any droppings from the hen that died to mail to Foys, because she didn't produce any. Since then my loss is zero.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

These two observations...you say...

"As I stated in my previous post they started dying in December 2014, We arrived with them in July 2014. and....When I separated cocks from the hens 3 died."

If your birds had an underlying issue illness or disease and you moved them, and then moved lofts, these two thing alone at any one time can cause a lot of stress and the birds can go downhill and die. The ones that are not sick, are stronger nd dont have the underlying problem. When you separate, the males start establishing a pecking order and perch fights for real estate, this is stress. Moving to another loft, this is stress, so the hens got sick. Im not saying its the sole factor but every bit contributes to stress. My money is on some pathogen because the 6 month span of time from moving to dying in december. 

For sure get rid of the cedar shavings, they are toxic to birds u can add that as a stressor too. Clean floor or non toxic stall dry or pine not cedar shavings. You get the idea. Good luck I hope thats the end of it for you. Also just because the deceased hen didnt poop or u dont have a sample from here doesnt mean u shouldnt still send one off from the rest of the hens in loft and send in. Take a few samples of what looks to be the worst poops and send in to see if and what is in the loft that may be an underlying illness now before any more die. Same for the males. You may be surprised at what they find.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I am glad to hear you haven't lost anymore birds . From what I have read I believe your birds had a digestive track infection . That would give the appearance of the birds eating however the feed was sitting in the crop spoiling . Then the birds vomit and spread the infection . However I am not there to make a more accurate decision . Have you ever used ACV with the mother. I have used it in that situation and it works wonders . I would give all the birds a few day treatment of ACV for good measure .And yes stop with the cedar shavings. Best of luck,
Kurps


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

I stand corrected. I do have pine shavings in the loft, not cedar. Although I asked for cedar at pet supply before finding out how toxic it was, they gave me pine. I will send in some droppings and let you know the findings. Thanks so much.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

What's AVC?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Most or almost all pigeon keepers give acv atleast once per week to their birds, mixed in their drinking water. Acv helps to maintain PH balance of the gut,makes gut acidic which is an unfavorable environment for harmful bacteria to survive. Acv also acts as a probiotic.

ACV stands for Apple Cidar Vinegar. Organic ACV is the best for your birds as it has mother in it. Bragg's Organic ACV is most popular brand. Don't use any artificial or non fruit vinegar


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## conrad00 (Jan 6, 2015)

sorry bout are hen loss adrean may be it was the move their all cali breed birds


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Okay. We use Apple Cider Vinegar. Although I've been a member, I'm new to this forum. Please be patient if I ask questions about the abbreviations being used.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Just giving everyone a quick update. I haven't lost anymore hens. My pigeons are doing great thanks to all of the knowledge as well as advice that I'd received from everyone. I'll keep everyone updated periodically.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. Did you figure out the diagnosis? I am just curious. Thank you.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

I can't say for sure. I ordered medications from Siegels moths before the epidemic (10 in 1 capsules, 4 in 1 powder) During the epidemic, I started each hen on the treatment, but it did not work. I ordered medications from Jedds(Tonys Treasure) that I used in the past. It came during the time that I noticed another hen showing the same symptoms as the others. I started her on the treatment and she recovered. I do plan on sending samples to foys to get my hens/cocks poop analyzed for general health.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hey adrean,
Glad to hear your birds are fine now...
If you've sent the droppings for tests then do share the findings when they you get them.

I would also like to advice that these 4 in 1, all in all etc. products are good for nothing. They harm your birds in the long run instead. They don't have enough of anything to effectively treat any ailment rather they help the harmful bacteria to build resistance up.
Please,never medicate your pigeons on trial and error. If the disease is showing obvious symptoms which you're able to access and are sure about it then medicate specifically.
If not,get a diagnosis and get the right medicine.
These 4 in 1s maybe used for prevention courses in rotation with other meds but they aren't really helpful in treating a sick bird.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

4-1 have worked great for me when my caged birds were sick, as well as any pigeon in for quarantine.


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

My friend was telling me that years back, he had hens dying only hens. He sent the birds in for an autopsy and nothing was found. The vet gave a name of what he suspected and it is not detectable in a dead bird & it will not nessicerly happen to all the hens, My Friend had a hen die sometimes one in a month. then it just stopped. He has had and raced for 57 years.He Won Hall of fame with his birds. he said he had never seen this before and it has not happened again. 

I send my birds to Dr Steve Wier in OK, He was a guest speaker at our combine Auction here in SC. I haven't sent any birds for a couple of years.

I pick 2 to 4 of my worst looking birds and send them to Dr Wier, just for a full workup. Like I said I haven't for a couple of years but I am getting ready dto do it again. I need to get back with my program. He will also check Dropping for you Healthy Pigeons Want to Fly and if I do my part they win. Good Luck

You have a very nice looking loft. PM me If you need his #


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hey The Patriot,
Wouldn't you like to spread the knowledge by sharing the findings?
Thanks


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi Jass SamOplay,
Sure, What Finding? If your referring to Dr Wier's #, I don't post any phone#'s On line. But if you need or want his number please feel free to PM me. Be happy to give you or anyone through PM his number.
Thanks for the interest.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for posting back...okay
I wanted to know what illness he found in the hens who died and were affected? What was the cause of their deaths/illness?


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

I will call my friend today and ask him what the name of the disease that was killing the hens, I do know that all you can do is let it take its course. I lost two hens that looked and felt good and healthy, then it stopped. I haven't had any more for three years. I believe he said it is also air born. but I will call My friend Jeff and ask him more about it and will report back to you all as soon as I can.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

The Patriot said:


> My friend was telling me that years back, he had hens dying only hens. He sent the birds in for an autopsy and nothing was found. The vet gave a name of what he suspected and it is not detectable in a dead bird & it will not nessicerly happen to all the hens, My Friend had a hen die sometimes one in a month. then it just stopped. He has had and raced for 57 years.He Won Hall of fame with his birds. he said he had never seen this before and it has not happened again.
> 
> I send my birds to Dr Steve Wier in OK, He was a guest speaker at our combine Auction here in SC. I haven't sent any birds for a couple of years.
> 
> ...



Adrean stated that 3 cocks died when this disease first showed up . I am also curious to know what disease/virus just attacks hens though.
Kurps


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Yes sir I am just waiting for Jeff to call me back, So I can get what the illness is called. It didn't matter to me after I stopped losing the hens. 

Hopefully he can spell it, if not I will try, I am sure I will butcher it but I will try..


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Well, it is called Adeno virus type 2, I must have misunderstood what he said the first time he told me about it. It hits hens more so than cocks. 85 to 90% of the birds that die will be hens that are 2 & 3 years old, no reason why that happens it is just the way it works. Almost never affects hens younger or older something with their immunity no explanation.

He talked to a vet at UC Berkley in 2004. The vet told him, what the bird will die from is a secondary infection of e-coli, Canker, or worms. It is a virus and all the meds you want to through at it will not kill the virus. The best thing you can do is treat the flock for E-coli, Canker and keep the birds wormed and a good multi-vitamin to help fight a secondary infection. Keep the loft cleaned daily.

He was also told to rotate the medication until the virus had runs course. Jeff lost 31 hens and 4 cocks in two years before it stopped. The birds only symptom, was one day they all looked good the next day one or two were dead, he also had one cock that for three days looked like it was going die but it pulled through. 

Guy’s I hope that I have shed some light on this subject. Sorry it took me so long. I would like to say that it is my old age but it really comes down to I didn't listen as well as I should have the first time he told me. 
Any missed spelled words is the fault of the computer because I can’t spell worth a damm. And my writing is not much better. 

Good luck to you all. And thanks for making listen and ask more questions this time, I to have learned something. I may not retain it. If anyone learns more about this I hope you will post the information, now I am really interested to know more.

The Patriot


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks
Yes adeno+e.coli makes a deadly combo and result in sudden deaths. This was my suspicion when you talk of it and in this thread too,in my first post I wanted to point it out.
Anyways, good luck with your birds


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Just when I thought that I was out of the woods, it struck again. This time it was a 2 year old cock. This time I was able to get droppings from him. I sent it out to Foys and will get the results in 3 to 4 days. I'll share the results.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Will be waitin' eagerly to hear from you...

Sorry for the loss. Its sad


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hey adrean,
> Glad to hear your birds are fine now...
> If you've sent the droppings for tests then do share the findings when they you get them.
> 
> ...


I was not able to collect droppings from the hens that died, because they were already dead and I knew nothing about Foy's and their dropping analysis. Unfortunately another cock had came down with the same symptoms as the hens and I was able to collect the droppings and send them for analysis. Although Ronald has been raising rollers for years, I just started 10 years ago. Ronald is old school. He didn't believe in giving them medicine, he believed in the culling system, only the strong survive. I don't. If I can save them, I'll do whatever I can. When I first started raising, I can remember walking into the loft watching the birds fly around. There was one bird sitting in the corner in the loft fluffed up. By me not knowing anything about pigeons I thought she was resting. When Ronald walked into the loft he knew that something was wrong with her (I named her Ruby). He picked her up, checked her out and told me he had to kill her. My response was "absolutely not!!!". I took her to the pet shop and spoke to a person who had knowledge about pigeons and medications. He checked her out, showed me what medications to buy, I bought them, used them, and she got better. When we lived in California, we used antibiotics when needed, which was rare,(checking our records 6 times in that past years), but since we moved them to Louisiana we find ourselves using much more. If there's a book that can give us other alternatives other than antibiotics, or things that we can use as a form of preventive measures feel free to share. We are open to any suggestions.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Arent you close to seigels pigeon supply. I think they are near New orleans.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Good luck with your birds. Your heart seems to be in the right place. Hope the birds are all better soon!


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

re lee said:


> Arent you close to seigels pigeon supply. I think they are near New orleans.


Seigels pigeon supply is in Lafayette Louisiana, which is about a 2 hour drive.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You're right with your take, Adrean. Why kill if the bird can be treated.,. After all, these innocent creatures are our responsibility, we keep them. 
10 years is quite a duration...
If you could post clear picS of your birds droppings maybe something canbe suggested.
Canker, Coccidiosis and Worms are very common in pigeons. All these ailments need, is bird in stress and they take over.
These MUST BE checked by running prevention courses TWICE every year.
Keep your loft as dry as possible.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

adrean41 said:


> Seigels pigeon supply is in Lafayette Louisiana, which is about a 2 hour drive.


Well that is not far i checked said 126 miles. Thought you could check with them on an idea to treat your birds. Considering they are so close. And then are there any pigeon keepers YOU know in your area as Seeing the birds gives a better idea as to what they might have.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

re lee said:


> Well that is not far i checked said 126 miles. Thought you could check with them on an idea to treat your birds. Considering they are so close. And then are there any pigeon keepers YOU know in your area as Seeing the birds gives a better idea as to what they might have.


Actually Siegels is 118 miles away from me. I order most of my medicines from his catalog. I already spoke to the owner, (Mr. Ed) who also raise pigeons( I think he race them). Any who, I spoke to him about the symptoms that my hens had before they died, and he told me to give them Ecol Tonic for 7 days, followed by a probiotic. I did it and they still died. Before we moved the pigeons to Louisiana, I spoke to him about my concern (mosquitoes). I was moving them from a place where mosquitoes wasn't a problem to a place where it is a major problem. He told me about vaccinating them as soon as we get to New Orleans and I did. If he would have told me to come to Lafayette so he can take a look at them, I would have. I'm glad that I rejoined this forum. I can tell that everyone is really concerned and is willing to share information as well as give suggestions. As soon as I get the results from Foy's, I will post them.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Will be waitin' eagerly to hear from you...
> 
> Sorry for the loss. Its sad


So am I.. Thanks for your concern. Are your pigeons on a regiment? And if so, is it because of where you live? I'm addressing this to everyone.


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## Feather foot (Feb 19, 2014)

Did u vaccinate for pmv? Are they drinking a lot of water?


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Feather foot said:


> Did u vaccinate for pmv? Are they drinking a lot of water?


They were vaccinated fro PMV July 5th last year. They're drinking an average amount of water.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

The results from Foy's are in: Coccidiosis, Capillariasis, plus a yeast infection. When I start loosing my hens in December, I treated my whole flock with Moxidectin Plus for treatment of worms and the 4 in 1 powder for coccidiosis. I never had problems with yeast infection, til now.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for sharing the results with us.
See..., if you would have stated the symptoms earlier...okayyy... Leave it! . But one thing, every fancier must have the knowledge to access the droppings of his birds.
What are you treating the birds with? Please do not use 3 in 1s or 4 in 1s. Treat specifically. Leave Moxidectin behind... Use more precise and specific drug. That will be my sincere advice.

All the above things are very common in pigeons and hence must be treated for half yearly/yearly. You might like to treat with what they give you at Foys. Do tell us and ask if anything you want. I would be interested to know how things work out at your loft so please keep posting.

PS: *Don't underestimate a yeast infection.* If birds are dying of it,its a virulent strain. People, links and vets will tell you, it can be easily treated and be done with, but the answer is 'NO'. Sorry,if that's rude but I've tonns of experience with it, (infact with all the ailments above) for only thing I'm telling you this,I wanna help your birds, that's the reason I'm here on PT.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

What does foys recommend for yeast.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Medistatin is for yeast. Siegels sells it.

Jass, Moxidectin Plus is very good. Gets all worms. You are right about the 3 in 1's and 4 in 1's. They don't work. They don't have enough of any one med in them to cure anything.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Adrean41, can you tell us the collection procedure for foys, how you shipped, cost for shipping, cost for testing and how long this all took to get results thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Many have reported back that the testing by Foy's turned out to be not so accurate. That does make sense, as samples need to be fresh and kept cool to be accurate. If they aren't fresh or kept cold, the bacteria multiply and results are off.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ya when I spoke to Foys they said to wrap in a ziplock bag, then overnight it to them with a cooly pack. I may look into it for myself.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I've used moxidectin plus myself on my pigeons. There's a loop hole in its mechanism as I've discussed about it with a world reknowned vet. I'm not saying its not a good dewormer. But this might be case of resistance. The birds had been treated with moxidectin plus. And drugs must be rotated. On that note, treating with a specific dewormer is the need of the hour,IMO.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I use moxi more for mites. I use a separate dewormer. Does the plus cover worms as well. I use the wormout gels or pills for my birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Moxidectin is a dewormer. Moxidecton plus also covers tape worm, which most wormers don't.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

CBL said:


> Adrean41, can you tell us the collection procedure for foys, how you shipped, cost for shipping, cost for testing and how long this all took to get results thanks.


I have an area in my loft where I isolate the ill birds(a separate cage). I laid a sheet of plastic wrap under the pigeon to collect the urine as well as the droppings. Once I collected them (which was Friday morning), I closed the plastic, and put the plastic in a ziploc bag. I put the ziploc bag in a brown bubble envelope, labeled it with with my name and my birds description(since it was only one set of droppings), sealed it and inserted the brown bubble envelope in a priority envelope. I took it to the post office and mailed it off that same morning. It cost about $5 to mail it off. Foy's received it Monday. Instead of me sending them a check or money order in the priority envelope, I called them first thing Monday morning and gave them my credit card info. I got the results back Thursday. If you go on Foy's website, you can get all the information from there.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Thanks for sharing the results with us.
> See..., if you would have stated the symptoms earlier...okayyy... Leave it! . But one thing, every fancier must have the knowledge to access the droppings of his birds.
> What are you treating the birds with? Please do not use 3 in 1s or 4 in 1s. Treat specifically. Leave Moxidectin behind... Use more precise and specific drug. That will be my sincere advice.
> 
> ...


Jass, you said "the answer is no"....What was the question????


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

The question is of treating candida easily, the answer is 'no' it wouldn't go away easily.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

What's candida?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Candida is a yeast and any yeast or fungus IS difficult to treat, it takes longer.

Adrean1 thanks for the fecal collection info, I myself will be sending two samples from both lofts when the meds are done in 5 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you can get the sample to a vet to check, the tests would be more accurate, as they should be tested right away, and also kept cool for an accurate reading. If you have a vet, they should be happy to do the tests for you. The bacteria keep growing, so you will get a higher count the longer they sit before testing. I think regular vets can do the testing also.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

*I hear ya...*



Jay3 said:


> If you can get the sample to a vet to check, the tests would be more accurate, as they should be tested right away, and also kept cool for an accurate reading. If you have a vet, they should be happy to do the tests for you. The bacteria keep growing, so you will get a higher count the longer they sit before testing. I think regular vets can do the testing also.



Ya I know any vet may do it, but heres the deal, MY vets local WONT do it and the one that will wants over 160 bucks for a culture and sensitivity, so I will be sending to Foys for sure lol. I cant believe the hiway robbery here in ONTARIO.

Back in the day I had vet I used to work for do me a test for my caged birds and they had a both giardia and high ecoli counts so once a year if nobody gets sick, they get a general antibiotic treatment for ecoli and they have been fine ever since. 

I just want to do one for my birds once to see what may be in the loft or not. I dont like to guess and treat if I can treat for specific ailments.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't need a culture and sensitivity done necessarily. The droppings may be fine. Would only need that if they had something and wanted to know what to treat it with. I've heard many on here that were not satisfied with Foy's testing, but that may be because it takes a while to get the droppings there and so aren't accurate. Over nighting them with a cold pack would be more accurate.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi there Adrean,

What's up with the birds, man? What're you treating them with? Are they improving?


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi there Adrean,
> 
> What's up with the birds, man? What're you treating them with? Are they improving?


Hi Jass.
My birds are doing great!! We treated/treating them with AvioCox For Coccidiosis, Moxidectin for worms, Medistatin for yeast, followed by a probiotic.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

Do anyone know the names of some good probiotics?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Primalac, Probiavi, Bene Bac are the few I use.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, those are good ones.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

CBL said:


> Primalac, Probiavi, Bene Bac are the few I use.


Thanks CBL.


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

*Wasted Feed*









This is the bottom one of my breeders cage. I was trying to figure out what type of grains/seeds they're looking for. Can someone give some insight?


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## adrean41 (Jan 6, 2010)

*new edition*









Welcoming my 8 day squabs to the loft. two blue checks (one on each end), and a white (from another pair. she had only one fertile egg).


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

have you tried siegels pigeon supply mike has lots of knowlegde they are in La.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

adrean41 said:


> This is the bottom one of my breeders cage. I was trying to figure out what type of grains/seeds they're looking for. Can someone give some insight?


I noted my breeders looked for small seed when the bubs are young, then the bigger corn and peas when older. 

Have a seat and watch what they shift thru and what they pick up and eat, one of my racer friends ONLY feeds sneaky mix. All small seeds only.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

adrean41 said:


> Thanks CBL.


My pleasure


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