# I need some help!



## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

Back in october i received a letter from the town council saying,"Pigeons were spotted on your property,it has been determined that you are in violation of town ordinance#1,1991,section16-1-1(1) states:No farm animals,rabbits,wild animals or fowl,shall be kept,raised or maintained on any lot within the town jurisdiction that is zoned residentail unless said lot is 5 acres in size"
When I received a notice back in oct. saying i was in violation of the ordinance and had 30 days to remove the pigeons,i talked to the town marshal and told him pigeons were not a violation of the ordinance,i never heard anything else about it.Then last week i received another notice saying that pigeons are in fact farm animals,fowl,or wild animals,they called a special town meeting to determine this,but i knew nothing of it or i would have attended.There is another fellow in town that raises rollers and he received the same notice a few days ago.
I'm not for sure but the last i knew show pigeons(giant runts) were not "farm animals,fowl,rabbits or wild animals.I'm not sure were to go from here but i would like to keep my birds,any ideas or info would be greatly appreciated.

Aaron


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

PIGEONS ARE NOT FOWL. You can ask to see there order on this matter where they past it. Then perhaps a vet or such could help you or even down load info from the net. about pigeons are there classfacation. Proving they are not a fowl. Or farm type animal. But Cities are passing codes and it present a problem Might contact AU or the NPA to get a letter of support.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

What is the town going to do about the wild-FERAL- birds that live around other parts of town?
fast food places -service stations -ETC.?


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

hmm well here in Canada we barely have any restrictions so don't really have any experience with this matter but if i were you, if all else fails, set up a meeting with the council and just explain to them that your pigeons are now livestock but instead personal "pets". Tell them that they are not overcrowded so that there is no risk of disease or anything, and tell them what you use the pigeons for, etc etc. Also, when you go to meet them, make sure you clean the loft really well, and take some pictures of the loft to show them the big picture because im sure the council members haven't personally seen the loft THEMSELVES, but instead it has been reported by someone else and they are taking action against it. Make a professional presentation using pictures and be prepared on what you want to say to them and ask them to reconsider their decision. If all this fails, invite them over to your place, have tea/cookies etc etc ready (make it somewhat formal) and show them the loft. Again, make sure the loft is clean and the birds are healthy looking. (Hide any sickness, no matter how minor it may be). And if they refuse to let you talk to them, just scare them a bit by saying your going to take legal action against the city/town because your rights of speech and opinion have not been taken into consideration. 

Communication is KEY to solving this problem. Hopefully all goes well 

P.S. I know I read some members in the past here post topics similar to yours so I'm sure someone else will be able to help you better, I'm just giving my opinion 

GOOD LUCK


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Next
Tell the city to come get the birds
THEN call PETA to be sure the city takes good care of them.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I would ask them to cite the sources of their definitions for "fowl" and "farm animals". Possibly ask them in the form of a letter from your attorney? They are definately treading on your rights here.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Aaron...sounds like you and your roller friend got railroaded...of course they didn't announce the meeting because they didn't want you, nor any other pigeon fanciers.... to attend.

It's lawyer time, plain and simple. Maybe you can find someone pro-bono...or try to find the closest IDA (in Defense of Animals) chapter to you. They have a legal dept.; if there is none nearby perhaps they can give you a referral.

Don't panic...you can fight it and likely things can be OK. One important aspect which may be worth investigating is grandfathering existing lofts since they were there prior to the um...'ordinance'...being passed.


(Sky Tx...are my eyes deceiving me ?....or did you just really mention PETA in a _positive_ context ?????

...I guess the Holiday Season _is_ the season of miracles !!!)


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

All I can say now is, don't go down without a fight to keep your birds. Don't wanna look back 5 years from now and say, what if I had done this, what if I had done that differently. LIVE LIFE WITHOUT REGRETS! 


Now it might be the time of the day hitting me (4 AM, why am I still up...) but i think I just came up with a pretty darn good idea!

Would it, somehow be possible, for all of us on this forum to somehow sign a petition for Aaron to keep his pigeons? Or Possibly get a representative from our forum to send a letter to the council on behalf of all of us?


OK NOW I THINK I STRUCK GOLD :O I helped with this function at high school here in Canada just 2 weeks ago through Amnesty International. Some of you may know about them but basically they're an organization that gets people all around the world to write letters to the leaders/mayors/presidents of a country/city/town/organization. The letters are sent because of something wrong that is happening. Every year Amnesty International writes letters for I believe 10 different causes. Out of those 10, the average is that 4 of those causes are taken into consideration and the leaders of that particular area, stop what is happening cause there is such a push from the people all around the world to see some steps being taken to make things right. I know what I said might not have made a lot of sense cause its 4 AM, winter break and I shouldv'e been sleeping hours ago...need to wake up in 3 hours but hey thats highschool for me 

LONG STORY SHORT:

We all set aside 15 minutes, and write a short letter to the mayor of Aarons town/city. In the letter we state who we are (e.g. I'm a pigeon fancier all the way from Abbotsford, Canada) we state what is wrong (e.g. I believe that Aaron [last name here] should be allowed to keep his pigeons because not only is pigeon keeping a thriving hobby, it is also the fact that without our help these birds would not survive in the wild because they are domesticated, etc etc) and then we state what we want (e.g. I want Aaron to be allowed to keep his pigeons because they are not affecting anyone, there are no health problems associated with them, and they are the peace of mind for Aaron) 

Now all that is just an example but a simple 100 words or so will send the message. Especially if the mayor woke up to receive a couple dozen letters from all around North America. Now this is just an idea, writing letters has worked to free prisoners that were being held for what they believed in, writing letters has helped people receive fresh water, writing letters has ALSO helped people receive medical attention in countries ruled by a dictator...all through Amnesty International. So why can't we write letters through PIGEON TALK INTERNATIONAL  and send the simple message of letting Aaron keep his pigeons.

Just want everyones opinion on all this so its not just a 17 year old yapping by himself in his rainy hometown of Abbotsford.

P.S. Why letters, and not emails? Here's the scenario :

1. mayor opens an email regarding this matter, reads it.
2. mayor opens another email regarding this matter, and stops.
3. mayor checks all the emails regarding this matter and clicks the delete button.

Although technology is great, it could fail us in this matter. Writing a letter means that it is physically present infront of the mayor. Although he could simply throw them all out, I'm sure the mayors got a good heart in him/her.

So anyone up for this idea? And yes i congratulate myself on the longest post i've ever typed. Well worth it though! can't even think about losing my pigeons  If all else fails, a few letters will be sent from me and my buddies here in Abbotsford, $1 something well worth it for each letter sent. 

As my humanities teacher said, making a difference, one letter at a time 

- Gurbir


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

Here is there web page,feel free to send them a letter through the questions/comments option.

http://www.townofconverse.com/


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

There is also contact info for all of the town council on there page.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

will get right too it buddy


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Pigeons are Domestic Birds.
They are NOT 'Farm Animals'



> The civilization of human being was started when they started making houses and colonies. Then they though to keep some animals in order to fulfill their basic needs. This gave rise to animal husbandry and human beings started keeping animals which were beneficial in terms of meat, milk, transportation and companionship. People keep animals depending upon the climatic conditions and other necessities. This is the reason behind the huge farm animals list. Different farm animals fulfill different purpose, hence the following list of farm animals given in this article will help you to understand which all animals are included in the list and what are they used for.
> 
> Types of Farm Animals
> 
> ...


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

You need to start looking into the zoning laws in your County, State, City, Town ETC, some Regulations sometimes supersedes others depending on how they where written, Look all if any other letters were written during WWII, ETC by Congress men or leaders in your state that signed any resolutions on the use of Pigeons during such times… They may be Laws in your state that Protect Pigeons with bands from being shot, stolen or Court Cases ETC, that supersedes local Ordinances… Gather info from Local clubs in your area and surrounding County’s and look and ask on how they Tackled the Problems… I hope this gave you some Ideas…?…


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

hey guy
i sent in letter in your behalf,post so i will know what happen idont know yet but i may be in one of those towns myself so post the findings.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Rono842,

Federal definition of fowl and farm animal explicitly EXCLUDES pigeons. Our village lawyer informed our village board of this. They are wrong. 

Our village really likes our birds so I should be able to get the exact federal article. The offices are closed until the Jan 3 though.


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

Rondo769
Hey Guy???? Are you Talkin to me....?... I dont understand...


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

that stat of florida thing sounds really good i believe they will leave you alone.


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey Rando, I never had a Problem with my Birds Because I live on 3 Acers of land in a Agriculture zone, I can start a Small Pigeon farm if I Wanted. But I do understand the Problems you have and was just showing you that there may be Options that you are not aware of, Find out all you can about the Laws & Regulations in your State & County… I wish you the best of luck… Louie


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

rono, get the federal definitions. These are applied across the US and can not be questioned by local governments.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

This is how they have the code written in my Town.
§ 161-13 Prohibited animals. 

It shall be unlawful to permit any of the following farm animals to be harbored or allowed to remain in any dwelling or lot in the City of Middletown: cattle, chicken, duck, goose, goat, horse or pig.


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

*bylaw*

Hi there I am very sorry to hear of your situation. It seems some of the problem in part is the lack of knowledge of your city or towns councillors and officials regarding pigeon fanciers. I have found a model bylaw you can print and present to them and request to have their bylaw reversed. You can find it on www.crpu.ca go to the members download area and open the model bylaw form. There is also an information section you can print to hand out to the councillors or town officials so they can be better informed. It is not a guarantee but at least it is a shot in the dark and might work. I hope this will work for you. 
good luck to you.

Best regards
Hank


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Heres an Indiana code that prtoects from killing racing homers.

Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency

IC 15-19-4
Chapter 4. Racing Pigeons

IC 15-19-4-1
Trapping, killing, or injuring; offense
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) traps, detains, injures, or kills a pigeon, knowing that the pigeon is a racing pigeon, homer, racing homer, or homing pigeon; and
(2) is not the owner of the pigeon;
commits a Class C infraction.
As added by P.L.2-2008, SEC.10.


IC 15-19-4-2
Removing or damaging identification; offense
Sec. 2. A person who:
(1) knowingly removes or damages any identification attached to a racing pigeon, homer, racing homer, or homing pigeon; and
(2) is not the owner of the pigeon;
commits a Class C infraction.
As added by P.L.2-2008, SEC.10.


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your support.


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

Ok, there is a town meeting scheduled for Jan.13,i will be there along with the other guy in town,i have alot of info to print out and take with me,could use more though.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Rondo
First off the council has to inform the public of meetings. Its called the open meetings act. Heres the info for Indiana. 
Secondly they have to have all of the legalities straight,constitutionally and legally speaking, before they can pass such an ordinance. I had an animal control officer tell my wife it was illegal for me to keep pigeons in my yard. Having read the local ordinances I knew the officer was blowing smoke. When my wife called them on another matter involving my dog,the fence and 60 mph winds,the head AC guy told my wife "she`s one of my best officers". That might be the level of competence you are going to have to deal with.
The trick might be getting the council to allow you to speak and present your case. It might be time to lawyer up if they wont hear you.
Dealing with people like this will be very trying. 
Good Luck


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Rondo
I was looking at the Converse website. 
Let me get this straight, the last census placed 1137 people in the town limits? 
5 member city council with 3 full time employees? 
Gee this is rich. Take em to task... Is there an animal control department? I dont see how they can make animal ordinances with no animal control department. If there isnt I would think that the Miami County laws would take precedence over the local authority. Look up the Miami county animal ordinaces. They list what the county considers wild and dangerous animals. I`ll do some more digging and get back to you.
Throw this at em for fun. Its on the website

Converse "sets the pace" with determination and innovation and continues in the tradition of community growth and quality of life. Converse has _*strong roots in agriculture*_ and has kept that hard-work ethic and maintained values of personal home-town service where everyone knows your name. And Converse keeps abreast of the newest technology available.

I was just talking to a friend of mine, he said run for city council and repeal the ordinance if you get elected. lol


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

If you havent checked yet it might be worth your while to go to the website I indicated earlier and print out the model by law re: pigeons and the keeping of pigeons. They state they have been successful before so here it is again www.crpu.ca if you go to the download section you will find it.

good luck
Happy New Year Everyone

Hank


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## taylorr872 (Oct 5, 2008)

There was a good article in the NPA quarterly review on this topic recently- not sure where my copy is at the moment, but you may want to see if anyone has a copy of the past qrtly review with the article so you can check it out.

I would also advise joining the NPA or Pigeon Racing Union if you haven't already, as being part of a national pigeon organization will help show that you are a member of a larger group of active and responsible bird owners. You may also want to contact the NPA to see if they can help with your situation. Their website is: http://www.npausa.com - you can find contact information for your local representative by clicking on "NPA Info" and then the "State Reps" link. They have a fact sheet that they can provide with quotes from doctors, vets and CDC officials indicating that pigeons are not a threat to public health, and never have been. They can also recommend ways that existing ordinances can be re-written to accommodate responsible bird owners (a good compromise for a town council that has already decided to engage in a dispute over bird ownership) . 
I think fowl, as defined by the USDA specifically excludes pigeons and doves from its definition too. Definitely worth fighting for this, good luck!

I'm in the process of applying for law school right now... assuming I get in and finish )) maybe I'll be able to do pro-bono work for the NPA some day!


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

Ok we had the meeting,it was promising,we have to go to another meeting on jan.25,it a converse zoning appeals board meeting.One thing i found outragious was at the meeting the town laywer said they can classify pigeons as fowl if they want to.Here's a quote from town board vice president Paul hillsamer"I know of no complaints,but by our definition of fowl in our ordinance,pigeons are fowl"And get this Paul lives right accross the street from the other guy in town that has rollers and knew he had them for the last 12 years!I have came to the conclusion if you don't have the right last name in this town you're nothing.


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## rollermad (Jan 16, 2011)

is anyone complaining about the birds or are they causing any problems if the birds are not cousing problemthen i dont see why the should take the birds of u


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## Rondo769 (May 18, 2010)

rollermad said:


> is anyone complaining about the birds or are they causing any problems if the birds are not cousing problemthen i dont see why the should take the birds of u


Yes my nieghbor(who is also on the town council)complainted about them,i'm not sure why just old and bored i guess or just plain ignorant.I do not let them out to fly,i keep a clean loft also so i'm not real sure what his problem is.


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

a year ago i read animal code thing for my city and it basically states you cannot keep anything but a cat and dog so I called the inspector and asked if i can keep chickens(hen) and he said no referring to the section where pretty much every animal is prohibited except a cat and a dog so I said well if that section prohibits the keeping 0f hens how come in can go down the street and buy a gecko(prohibited as lizard) and a parrot(prohibited per code as "undomesticated") he stated that he would have to "double check" 
In my personal opinion its the white folks who write these laws and are afraid of everything and anything that "could"(not knowing that pigeons are harmless) do something to them, I am sure the council member would outlaw thunderstorm and temperature that too hot/cold for them if they could. Its like the people want to turn the natural outdoors into a open lobby.
Ok I should stop before I begin cursing,
thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

romanallover said:


> a year ago i read animal code thing for my city and it basically states you cannot keep anything but a cat and dog so I called the inspector and asked if i can keep chickens(hen) and he said no referring to the section where pretty much every animal is prohibited except a cat and a dog so I said well if that section prohibits the keeping 0f hens how come in can go down the street and buy a gecko(prohibited as lizard) and a parrot(prohibited per code as "undomesticated") he stated that he would have to "double check"
> *In my personal opinion its the white folks who write these laws and are afraid of everything and anything that "could"(not knowing that pigeons are harmless) do something to them*, I am sure the council member would outlaw thunderstorm and temperature that too hot/cold for them if they could. Its like the people want to turn the natural outdoors into a open lobby.
> Ok I should stop before I begin cursing,
> thank you.




Excuse me? But pain in the butt weirdos come in many different colors.


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Excuse me? But pain in the butt weirdos come in many different colors.


I know, I am sorry if you take a really serious offense to it I know I am far from being 100% correct, its just my worthless opinion


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## Possum Fat (Mar 18, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Excuse me? But pain in the butt weirdos come in many different colors.


No joke. Look at our current and former presidents.

If this town lawyer is gonna classify pigeons as fowl, then you should classify dogs as wolves since man domesticated them just as we did our birds.


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

Possum Fat said:


> No joke. Look at our current and former presidents.
> 
> If this town lawyer is gonna classify pigeons as fowl, then you should classify dogs as wolves since man domesticated them just as we did our birds.


thats exactly why I no longer care one bit about politics and spend free time with pigeons, what would rather give your time to, the weirdos that are some people or the serenity of pigeon hobby....you know my vote


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## rollermad (Jan 16, 2011)

technicly some breeds of pigeons are like parrots e.g giant runts or hevy breeds so i think u should point that out


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Strictly speaking, pigeons are not considered poultry. Here's why.

Poultry refers to domesticated fowl birds, and fowl birds are birds such as chickens, geese, ducks, pheasant, turkeys, etc. The reason those birds are bunched together as "fowl" is that they are all from the same avian order known Galliformes.

Pigeons (and doves), on the other hand, come from a different order of birds, known as Columbidae. Pigeons are part of a larger group of birds known as Passerines, or perching birds. Galliformes (chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks, etc.) are not part of the Passerine group.

So, from a scientific viewpoint, pigeons are not considered poultry and that makes them not fowl. Tell your city councle to get the facts right. They can't call a dog a goat just becouse they want to.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

This all sounds crazy! You aren't even letting your birds poop all over their windows and they are mad!


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

Thats' nutz !!!


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## markp1969 (Nov 23, 2010)

Maybe you can call your local tv station and see if they can help?


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*Um hate to say this*

I hate to say this but you have to look up the statutes from which pigeons are classified. I have handled property and zoning issues before for clients and I as both a fancier and attorney have come into the hard restriction that in most cases the cities have defined pigeons as either fowl or poultry. They also place restrictions on the number of animals you can keep. I have watched as others argue property rights and the city will say you accept their laws when you move in their city. I have commented on these issues before. I hate to be the ugly person in the room but if they say you can not have pigeons the only way you can keep them is a zoning variance in which city accepts petitions from neighbors indicating that they have no issue with the pigeons and that maybe the grant a variance. I have helped many fanciers in past regarding zoning and loft construction in Michigan. Most people will build a loft without realizing you need a building permit. That you have to watch easements and follow the local laws. My bird is now a pet bird because the city we reside in does not allow fowl in the city where my house is located. It must then be a pet bird. Where my grandfather's old loft was they passed restrictions on keeping birds but because his loft was built before the ordinances were passed he could keep the birds. He wanted to build a new loft but he could not do so without losing the grandfather clause ability. Anyone who raises pigeons outside must contact their attorney. You rather find out one day too early then one day to late. We took in birds from a guy in the city whose loft had to be torn down. People if you raise birds you have to know what you can and can not do or else sadly in the end the birds will pay the price.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Why do people have to make so much of a ruckus over a flock of pigeons? Geesh! Some people are just miserable, and they can't stand for anyone else to have anything they want. To bad so many are like that. Sad, really.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

This is just your tax dollars going to waste. My opinion. Its more serious issues then pigeons in everybodies town.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Some time the wording in law make all the difference we went through this when our girls were in 4H. You may very well have to file a suite in the court system but if the restricts one thing and you have something else they can miss call something just to include it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

KO Loft said:


> I hate to say this but you have to look up the statutes from which pigeons are classified. I have handled property and zoning issues before for clients and I as both a fancier and attorney have come into the hard restriction that in most cases the cities have defined pigeons as either fowl or poultry. They also place restrictions on the number of animals you can keep. I have watched as others argue property rights and the city will say you accept their laws when you move in their city. I have commented on these issues before. I hate to be the ugly person in the room but if they say you can not have pigeons the only way you can keep them is a zoning variance in which city accepts petitions from neighbors indicating that they have no issue with the pigeons and that maybe the grant a variance. I have helped many fanciers in past regarding zoning and loft construction in Michigan. Most people will build a loft without realizing you need a building permit. That you have to watch easements and follow the local laws. My bird is now a pet bird because the city we reside in does not allow fowl in the city where my house is located. It must then be a pet bird. Where my grandfather's old loft was they passed restrictions on keeping birds but because his loft was built before the ordinances were passed he could keep the birds. He wanted to build a new loft but he could not do so without losing the grandfather clause ability. Anyone who raises pigeons outside must contact their attorney. You rather find out one day too early then one day to late. We took in birds from a guy in the city whose loft had to be torn down. People if you raise birds you have to know what you can and can not do or else sadly in the end the birds will pay the price.


I think the quoted post is right on the mark .. 

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*AND .. Let's Watch It!*

No more comments about what color people are .. it must be a full moon or something .. you all are going off the deep end .. no worries .. as far as I know there can be an unlimited number of users on moderation.

Terry


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*Off topic but on point*

I had the other day an issue that kind of demonstrates why it may be important to check local ordinances and your deed. Had a friend who told me yesterday of case he is handling in which a dog owner built kennels to keep his dogs but did not get a permit. Power went out due to winter storms and when the utility company came they could not get access to the pole because of placement of the kennels. Local ordinance prevented owner from building without a permit. The only access point was through the spot of the kennel due to tree growth and that is why the easement was reserved so many years ago by the original property owner. A neighbor was elderly and had medical equipment that needed to be on, so that is why they sent utility company to her house. Long story short- owner being sued for unnecessary hospital bills, cost of removing kennels, charged with criminal misdemeanor in not following the local ordinances (in michigan some violations are criminal) which means if convicted of ANY misdemeanor he will lose his job due to nature of it, attorney fees for both parties and court costs. One of the parties to the action in the end might be the utility company which has very deep pockets to pay their attorneys. When the city began the case they determined he was possessing of more than the city allowed dogs so he must get rid of some. People in the past when this happens to pigeon fanciers the loft must be liquidated quickly and one of the individuals who comes are those that do not want the birds for raising but for bird dog training. I have said this before please be aware of the laws or the animals will suffer!!


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*and if you are in michigan*

give me a call if you are building loft or being sued!!!


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

OK.. SO I have done some digging and I have a very good resource for you. 
Amy Klopman
248-683-5137

She is the Eastern Vice President of the NPA, and she helps to co ordinate the helping of people in situations like yours. The NPA is happy to talk to the people that are pushing this on to you, and try to work with them to find a better solution. I suggest contacting her ASAP.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I have given you false information. She can be reached at 248-770-1454.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

This is not much help, but I thought I would share. Kind of funny

My friend lives almost directly in the middle of town. He raises pigeons, and has a few chickens.

He got a letter from the city about his chickens. So he gave me his chickens and thought that was the end of it. The city came to the door and asked to look at his birds. He showed them his back yard and they asked him if he had chickens, the told them that he got rid of them. My friend asked them who complained, they told him that it was his Next Door Neighbor, so my friend asked if they had the city license for the dog that they had. The city then checked the neighbor.

Now this is the funny part. 

The city said nothing about the pigeons (nothing at all), but my friend was charged $100.00 for the chickens that he gave me.

The neighbor got charged $500.00 for not having a license for the dog.

Go figure


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

It just seems so unjust that such a few people (in this case the neighbor of Rondo769) can dictate how all the rest of us should live. I have cars and motocycles passing with such loud mufflers that it leaves my ears ringing for hours and yet the soft cooing of pigeons is the target of such scorn.

I think this has opened my eyes to doing everything I can to be proactive in protecting myself from such attacks. Thanks pigeonmumbler for the Florida bill certificate. I have copied it to a file just in case I hope many of us can find such a document to possess. Also, I really like the idea of joining the NPA (for more than just this reason). I'm joining today. I would think that more members provides even greater influence. It seems more and more cities are adopting such strict/discriminative practices against pigeons. Sad

Rondo, I really hope this works out in favor of you and your pigeons. With every fight like this we win we set president for future cases.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

eyespyer said:


> This is not much help, but I thought I would share. Kind of funny
> 
> My friend lives almost directly in the middle of town. He raises pigeons, and has a few chickens.
> 
> ...



Loved this one! Now that is justice! Good for your friend!


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

eyespyer said:


> This is not much help, but I thought I would share. Kind of funny
> 
> My friend lives almost directly in the middle of town. He raises pigeons, and has a few chickens.
> 
> ...



Haha! That is awesome, good for them!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

eyespyer said:


> This is not much help, but I thought I would share. Kind of funny
> 
> My friend lives almost directly in the middle of town. He raises pigeons, and has a few chickens.
> 
> ...


This is great! LOL and exactly what I would do! If any of my neighbors complained they had better make sure everything they *do* or *have* is perfect and legit!!
What ever happen to "Live and Let Live"?!
If the birds are not being let out to 'free fly'.....what's the problem  What business is it to the neighbors what he has in his own yard? I could see it if he was raising cattle or something!


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

Jaysen said:


> Rono842,
> 
> Federal definition of fowl and farm animal explicitly EXCLUDES pigeons. Our village lawyer informed our village board of this. They are wrong.
> 
> Our village really likes our birds so I should be able to get the exact federal article. The offices are closed until the Jan 3 though.


Where do you go to find the Federal definition?


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