# need some advice-found a pigeon



## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Hi,
My daughter found a pigeon-it is black and white- and it has what I think is a broken wing. Not sure where it is broke but the wing drags on the ground when it moves. I can't seem to find any wounds and he is eating the the goldenfeast cockatiel seed we gave him and is drinking. So...I am in South Dakota and the closest avian vet is 4 hours away. The vets around here have no experience with birds. Do I try and wrap it with vet tape following the broken wing advice on this website? Probably a good chance it won't be flying again? And if we need to keep it-how much food does it need a day? And it is in a dog kennel right now-I really don't want to bring it inside as I have no way of knowing if it is carrying something and I have a cockatiel and kids. So try and build a cage? Yikes--sorry I am bombarding with questions but I need some information and any advice you can give! Thanks so much for any help! Shannon


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann, thanks for trying to help this guy out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.

Here are a couple of links to get you started one explaining some issues with breaks and some links showing how to wrap a wing. The links show essentially the same thing, but from different perspectives.

It would be best to get a few photos up before you wrap the wing so we can see the position it is held in. Take a photo directly overhead and one from the side. With food and water, just keep his seed dish toped up and same with his water and he will eat what he wants. If you get to the pet store I am sure he would appreciate if you find him a bag of pigeon/dove mix. Also, in all the time I have been hear I have yet to hear of a rescued bird, no matter how ill making the caregiver, their children, or pets ill with anything, so you have very little to fear this way.

http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/brokenwing.html
http://www.parrotchronicles.com/features/firstaid/firstaid.htm
http://ccwr.org/membership/members_only/2010_Symposium_Handouts/Duerr_Bandaging_Techniques.pdf

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*trying to help...*

Thanks for the response! I will try to get pictures up--things are hectic this week. I talked to a vet that is about 5 hrs away and they said that wrapping probably won't do much good as we don't know what part of the wing may be broken because no one can do an xray around here. I just love living in the boonies... I also can't find any pigeon food. So I kind of made my own mix. However, do they need grit? I am finding conflicting opinions. If they do, the only kind I can get is the rock grit. Thanks!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

They need grit, but no immediate need for this, as this guy will almost surely have some in his ventriculus (gizzard) right now. The real concern is the wing, if the break is fresh he stands the best chance of getting use of it back to some degree if we don't delay longer in figuring out what is wrong, and ASAP, need photos to start. Often times we don't need an xray to get things lined up as best as possible and get the wing wrapped, they heal real fast so delays will cause the wing to possibly heal in a position where he will not get much use from the wing.

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*Need help with housing a disabled pigeon...*

Hi, I need some help. We have a pigeon that broke it's wing and as a result will never fly. Problem is that I don't know how to house it. Obviously it doesn't need flying room, however what should the floor be made out of? Is wire hard on the feet? I don't want it to have to be in it's droppings. How big does a pigeon need? I would appreciate any advice--right now it's in a large dog kennel. Thanks! Shannon


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*Need some help please!*

Help! I have a feral pigeon that broke it's wing and won't fly again. I am trying to find out the best way to house it. I am wondering if something http://www.petsmart.com/product/zoom/index.jsp?productId=3402796 like this would work inside the house. Would it be happy inside? I have a cockatiel for company? Not in the same cage of course. Please I need some help with this. Thanks!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Shann8576 said:


> Help! I have a feral pigeon that broke it's wing and won't fly again. I am trying to find out the best way to house it. I am wondering if something http://www.petsmart.com/product/zoom/index.jsp?productId=3402796 like this would work inside the house. Would it be happy inside? I have a cockatiel for company? Not in the same cage of course. Please I need some help with this. Thanks!


how old is the break in the wing ?
you would be surprised at what they can recover from, and how quickly.
maybe you could post some pics ?
Yep a cage like that would do, but put a brick in the bottom for it to perch on, and instead of the ladder, just a flat piece of wood with a few rib steps on to help it grip. pigeons feet prefer flat surfaces.
you could make its nest in the top section, as long as it could get up & down to its food and water on the bottom.
Pigeons make great pets & although it may like the company of the cockatiel, but be careful, dont let them out together without supervision. A cockatiels hooked bill could do serious damage to a pigeon, even playfully.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

Shann8576 said:


> Hi, I need some help. We have a pigeon that broke it's wing and as a result will never fly. Problem is that I don't know how to house it. Obviously it doesn't need flying room, however what should the floor be made out of? Is wire hard on the feet? I don't want it to have to be in it's droppings. How big does a pigeon need? I would appreciate any advice--right now it's in a large dog kennel. Thanks! Shannon


I think what you have it in now is just fine and the wire floor in those dog kennels are a little large so I would maybe put some 1/4 to 1/2 in square hardware cloth on the bottom for now or even newspaper would work but will be a little messy  For the long term I would look at getting a a LARGE rabbit hutch or something like that?? Good Luck....


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Even if it wasn't a " double decker " It's pretty close to perfect ......the width of that cage is great and would suit a pigeon well . I love the wide door too .......free and easy access to come and go as it pleased .

How do I get one


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

No probs 

That is strange that a normal vet doesn't carry clavamox .

It shouldn't be too long before someone will be along and be able to give you some sound info on the wing including meds/dosing per weight of the bird


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Shann8576,


You need to carefuly examine the injured Wing, and, determine where, and if it is in fact broken, and, if it is broken, what the disposition are of the ends of the broken Bone.

Possibly these are Pellet Gun perforations, or, could be something else, but, extend the Wing, and, gently feel the length of all the Wing Bones between finger tips, and try and get some sense of the structure, and, of what does or does not belong there as for lumps or swellings or looseness.


http://idahoptv.org/dialogue4kids/images/season10/prey/wingdiagram.gif


http://qp-society.com/qpserc/ercimages/wingbone.gif


If the holes you are seeing are from the Bone ends breaking out through the skin, then, this needs to be known.

You can have someone hold the Bird vertically in front of a strong Light, Bird facing you, so that you can then gently extend the Wing and 'see' through it somewhat frmo it's underside, in order to try and evaluate where the Break is, and, how the ends of the Bone appear to be situated.

Please post some images of the Bird, and, of any details of the Wing you can manage.

Also please, post some good close up images of their freshest poops.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

You can order Amoxycillin from either Foys.com or Jedds.com online. I would suggest having it quick-shipped.

Clavamox = Amoxycillin + clavalonic acid. The Amoxy is the active med, the clavonic acid basically acts to increase the absorption of the Amoxy, so regular ol' Amoxycillin is a good enough stand-in for Clavamox.

I would go ahead and get some..bone breaks are prone to bone or soft-tissue infections.

The likelihood is that scar tissue will grow in and will stabilize the broken joint area...sort of create it's own bridging to keep the whole limb together. But your pal will never fly again. Only way to give that hope a chance would be an x-ray and further treatment by an Avian vet. Then again, the x-ray may also just end up showing that the break is unmendable.

But I would do the Amoxycillin. Also, if it seems she/he is in any pain, you can also give some liquid Ibuprophen (Children's Motrin, Children's Advil) via syringe, just as a mild painkiller and anti-inflammatory. .02cc per 100g of bird (so a skinny Feral pigeon might weigh around 200-250g), 2x day if you like.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Can you refer to the Diagrammes in order to identify the location of the break?


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Sorry which diagrams?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann8576 said:


> Sorry which diagrams?


The links in Phil's post, #6, of this thread.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

HI Shannon,


In order for the Wing to be able to heal...it will have to be stabalized or 'set'.

In order for this to occur, you will have to provide details about the break, and, various of us here will see if we can guide you to be able to set the Wing.


If done fairly well, the Bones will heal and knit in a proper alignment, and this is what needs to happen for the Bird's recovery.


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*Help with posting pics of injured bird*

Good Grief--I uploaded my pics in an album and found the bb code but how do I get it into my post? I copied the bb code and inserted it but it did not work. Can anyone help me--I have people that want to see this bird and I need the help!


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*Injured Pigeon pics from Shann*

Here are some pictures of the injured pigeon I have. I will post more in another thread since this is the only way I can get it to work!


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*More pics of injured pigeon*

Here are more pics...They are blurry on here but not on my computer. I don't know what I am doing....


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Shannon,


Please PM a Moderator to have what is not at least four seperate Threads about one Bird, consolidated into one Thread.

Otherwise this is going to drive everyone nuts!

Lol...

Do the poop images again, try for a clear focus, close ups...


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*oops*

Yikes! So sorry! Will do!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway...get some 'Metronidazole' while you are at it...same place you would get the other Meds from, Foys, Jedds, Global, Siegals, any of 'em...60 mG Tablets.

I think your Bird was grounded, than ,atacked and escaped, oweing to having been seriously weakened by a Canker infection.


Waiting to see better poop/urate images, but, even in the images you did post, they had that look...so...this may be some of the 'wobbley' you are seeing.

Get a Quart of real Apple Cider Vinegar also, 'Braggs' being the Brand-of-Choice ( any Health Food Store, and, many Grocery Stores will have it...if not it, than any good brand of real Apple Cider Vinegar then...)

Phil
Lv


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Go to your album

Get the full size pic (ie, not just the thumbnail) on screen

Right click on pic

Select 'copy image location'

Start your post off, then in the post click on the 'insert image' icon

paste the copied image location into it


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## alienbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

A long time ago (2009), a member named Jenn posted a lovely photo of her pigeon Willow's cage... I always thought it was one awesome pigeon mansion!  Here's the link to her post: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=416339&postcount=3

Like Wingsonfire said, a large rabbit hutch would be great, too! 

I don't know if you've put perches inside your cage yet... if not, maybe you can use a couple of bricks for your pigeon to perch on (as many suggest here on PT) or some 2x4s? That way, if you decide to use a grate at the bottom, the pigeon will have something else to rest its feet on. 

I'm using newspaper for the bottom my disabled pigeon's cage... it is a bit messy, but I haven't found a better solution yet!  I just change it often!

Best wishes!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

alienbaby said:


> I'm using newspaper for the bottom my disabled pigeon's cage... it is a bit messy, but I haven't found a better solution yet!  I just change it often!


Try a two paper towels folded over, like Bounty, under the brick, not the perfect solution, but since they spend a good deal of the time on their bricks, it can make for a quick clean-up for a good part of the day's, or overnight droppings.

Karyn


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## alienbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Try a two paper towels folded over, like Bounty, under the brick, not the perfect solution, but since they spend a good deal of the time on their bricks, it can make for a quick clean-up for a good part of the day's, or overnight droppings.
> Karyn


Thanks! That's a really good idea.

I didn't realize the pigeon might be newly injured until I read this entire thread now combined with the other posts... I thought it was a pigeon with an old wound. Shann, I don't think you need to worry about getting a "pigeon mansion" just yet! A simple carrier would suffice if the pigeon is injured and requires attention.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

The suspense was killin' me...here are some of the pics....
Looks like an attack to me, although possibly an impact injury, too....


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*update*

Thanks Jay  I am picture posting illiterate! However I figured out that our camera is on the fritz so I am trying to hunt down a digital camera to take better pics. I am giving the amoxicillin and ordered the fish zole. I also got the acv and put it in the water. Just wondering if the amoxy and the bread balls make it so he won't eat quite as much? Also, if things go well after all of this, should I get a probiotic? Thanks to everyone who has helped us.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann8576 said:


> Thanks Jay  I am picture posting illiterate! However I figured out that our camera is on the fritz so I am trying to hunt down a digital camera to take better pics. I am giving the amoxicillin and ordered the fish zole. I also got the acv and put it in the water. Just wondering if the amoxy and the bread balls make it so he won't eat quite as much? Also, if things go well after all of this, should I get a probiotic? Thanks to everyone who has helped us.


The few bread balls will not make a difference in his desire to self-feed, so don't fret on this. Does look to be a predator attack, also looks to be a juvenile (which may have something to do with what is currently going on) with not a lot of body mass, we may want to dial back the Amoxicillin a touch, be a good idea if we could get a weight on this little guy. How is he eating and drinking on his own? Yes, you could give him some probiotics after the AB treatment. I would still tape just the wing in a figure 8 for the next week, to give it some support while healing.

Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I guess what I see in the pictures are that the left primary (longest) wing feathers have been cut off with scissors. While there's obviously some remnants of blood, I can't see enough to tell the where and why. Did you cut the wing feathers off in order to keep the bird from stumbling over them since the wing was hanging down? Can you take some pictures of the bird's profile from the front and from directly over the top?

Pidgey


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*craziness with this bird....*

Okay so when he was found the wing was broken and he had a wound under each wing in the middle. As the wing was dragging he kept stepping on it and the picture you see with the blood on the edge of the wing is from his nails stepping on it. So he actually created that wound. When I saw this I cut the long flight feathers because they were getting gross with poop. Then he could hold his wing a little better. However, because he was used to walking with his wing like that he steps up pulling his foot up to his body which is causing trouble with bandaging because he keeps getting his foot up and in the bandages. I have tried moving the bandage up toward the front of his body, I have wrapped it as tightly as I dare and still he gets that foot up there. There isn't anything wrong with his leg, I felt it and as he was walking fine when we found him. I even tried putting a sock on him to keep his wing up but he honest to god still got his legs up and in it. I think I should call him Houdini.  Anyway, he is eating and drinking as he is pooping and his poop and urates look normal. I do think I will back off the amoxy a bit and the fish zole should be here tomorrow. Should I go ahead with that? I will post pictures of him from the front and top. Can't get the poop as neither of my camera's will focus close up I am giving him a mix of seeds and whole corn. I am going to try to get some dried peas. Anything else I can give to help with the weight? Thanks


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

With the Amoxicillin, take from 0.30cc down to 0.20cc, twice a day and when the FishZole comes, if they are the 250mg, I want you to cut one pill in to 4 quarters, then cut each of these 1/4 pieces in half (so you will have 8 pieces total) and give him 1 piece a day (once a day) until the pill is finished (8 days). You can give both of these meds at the same time.

You can "pop" a piece like in this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

I'm sorry the first pic is blurry--we have tried 3 cameras to get close up shots but it's not working. And it's not the operator becuz I had three different people trying to take the picture! Anyway, in the first pic I am trying to show where he has a yellow scab that is coming off with the feathers also and around that area there is more yellow dry scabbing still on the skin. Is that a symptom of something? Also, yes that is a thin band aid on his wing where he kept walking on it. It is the only thing I can keep on him in that spot.


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)




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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Very cuuuute....


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

His beak is redder up on top not sure why...


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Thanks Jaye! He is adorable isn't he.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Shann,



The Wing needs to be stabalized in an intentional, and deferential way which brings the broken ends of the Bone together in a correct alignmen and contact, for them to heal, and or to heal at least somewhat properly.

The wrap you show does not appear to have answered that requirement.

A correct Wrap usually has the Wing stabalized unto itself, and, stabalized to the Body.

One can fold some crumpled Paper Towel if ned be, to make a small shaped 'pad', to go between the Wing and the Body, if need be, to arrive at a correct stabalization and alignment and 'hang', for the Taped unto itself Wing to then be lightly taped to the Body so it is in approximately a normal attitude.

Once all this is done, one has to verify that the desired alignment and contact of the Bone ends, has been acheived.


If the Bird shows a tendency to get his Toes caught in the wrapping, one makes a simple lightly padded for comfort 'Shoe' out of some regular Corrugated or other Cardboard, and, tapes this to the offending Foot, so that the Toes are not able to catch in the Wing Wrap and spoil things.


The Bird then stands and walks normally, lays down, or whatever, and, no more Toes or Foot in the Wing Wrap to vex the weary caregiver.


Shoe would be shaped about like their footprint is, like the silohuette of an Ice Cream Cone say...with small notches made for each Toe Nail, and, proportioned so that the Foot and Toes fit the Shoe for only the Toe Nails to hang over the edges, doing so in the small notches provided for them.


Like that...


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Well I still have him on the antibiotic and I started the fish zole yesterday. He is soooo skinny. I weighed him and while he hasn't been losing weight he isn't gaining either. He is 8.4 ounces. He is eating and drinking and his poop still looks good. A nice pile of brown with white. However, he wouldn't drink water with the acv in it so I stopped that. Also, his good wing is twitching now. He also has kind of scaly yellow skin around his head and when it comes off it takes the feathers off too. Is there anything else I should do? I will keep him on the meds and hope for the best.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, I got one exactly like this once and it turned out to be very odd. His shoulder and wing ended up freezing up in that position but sucked into the body real tight. He also stepped high with that one foot for some odd reason regardless if the wing was taped up. Originally the wing was loose and floppy (just hanging), but without actually being broken. It was later that it froze up. I started thinking that it was in fact a disease process and not necessarily an injury per se. I guess we'll wait and see here.

Pidgey


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Did that pigeon live?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, but he couldn't fly of course. Other than that, he had as good a life as any on the floor.

Pidgey


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

That gives me hope. Kinda attached after all this. Is there anything to help him gain weight? I don't know how much a juvenile should weigh.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean short of just plain eating? No, not really, unless he's got worms.

Looking again at your pictures, there might be some hope. It looks to me like the wrist is being held up in roughly the right position, it's the wingtip (the structural part, not the feathers) that's sagging and that can possibly heal in time. We'll just have to wait and see. I'd go through a couple of antibiotic therapies just in case it's a Paratyphoid or something like that.

Pidgey


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*medication*

Can you explain about the antibiotic therapies? He has been on amoxy since the 23rd. And I am doing the fish zole. I don't know how long to keep him on the amoxy. Also, what other medicines might I need? I am asking because I don't have an avian vet around here so I am on my own when it comes to medication. Thank you!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann8576 said:


> Can you explain about the antibiotic therapies? He has been on amoxy since the 23rd. And I am doing the fish zole. I don't know how long to keep him on the amoxy. Also, what other medicines might I need? I am asking because I don't have an avian vet around here so I am on my own when it comes to medication. Thank you!


This simply means using the oral antibiotics as a treatment, or remedy, for the possibility that certain kinds of bacteria may be causing problems with the functioning of wing, this would be outside of their use to prevent or treat any wound infection. The Amoxicillin treatment would be 10-14 days and the Fishzole for 7 days. These times are kind of general guidelines and Pidgey may have a different time frame in mind.

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*wondering...*

So does that mean to change antibiotics after the amoxy? I am asking because I will need to order as I can't get it around here. Can I feed him anything to help him gain weight? He has milo, millet, and sunflower mix right now. Thanks guys!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Once recovered from illness or privation or both, they will gain weight at their own speed...assuming they have acess to a good diet of course, and or can get a little exercise, also.

I get quite a few Pigeons who weigh about like a crumpled piece of newspaper.

Once done with correcting the illness/injury related things, it is uusally a few months before they are up to a good weight and have re-established their muscle mass.

The younger they are, the faster this tends to go, but, either way, it takes however ong it takes, and, for older adults, this is some several weeks or a couple months.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann8576 said:


> So does that mean to change antibiotics after the amoxy? I am asking because I will need to order as I can't get it around here. Can I feed him anything to help him gain weight? He has milo, millet, and sunflower mix right now. Thanks guys!


Well, in theory, if paratyphoid (an infection cause by salmonella) was suspected to be involved, we would want to change the antibiotic from a beta lactam antibiotic (Amoxicillin belongs to this class of antibiotic) to a fluoroquinolone, the most common one used in the treatment of birds is Enrofloxacin (aka Baytril, but the human equivalent Ciprofloxacin would also do). If you, your friends, or family members have a Cipro pill or two they can spare, we can make this switch, immediately, as the Cipro can take the place of the Amoxicillin.

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

*medicine*

I have ciprofloxacin hcl500 mg but it is from 2009. Would that still work?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, absolutely, I will post up some instructions shortly. You wouldn't happen to have a kitchen scale to get an exact weight on this little one, would you?

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

I just weighed him and he was 8.1 ounces on my postal scale


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I want you to crush the 500mg Cipro pill up into as fine a powder as you can, I use a shot-glass and the end of a small, round end kitchen knife, as my mortar & pestle, to do this. I want you to add to this 10mL of either pancake syrup, or honey, stir well for a minute, cover and let sit 20 minutes, stir very well again and it will be ready for use (a 5% Cipro suspension 50mg/mL).

I want you to give this little 0.10cc (first line on a 1cc syringe, 2 drops), twice a day, every 12 hours). You will stop the Amoxicillin, continue the Metronidazole (FishZole) and this little guy will stay on the Cipro for 14 days.

Karyn


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## Shann8576 (May 18, 2011)

Do I just hold his beak open and drip the two drops in? And I assume I just keep the rest in a covered container--no refrigeration needed. Thank you so much! Shannon


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Shann8576 said:


> Do I just hold his beak open and drip the two drops in? And I assume I just keep the rest in a covered container--no refrigeration needed. Thank you so much! Shannon


Forgot, we were doing bread balls with you, just a drop on a bread ball, roll and pop two times. Cover the little container, and refrigerate, stir very well before each use.

Karyn


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