# What patern is this?



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

*What pattern is this?*

I thought he was black, but up close I can tell he isnt.
What pattern is he? 
His only color is on his back. He has 1 colored spot on his tail


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would say a magpie marked with baldhead. not sure if he is kite or black.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Im not sure about color either. I thought black, but once I held him, you can tell its not black-black. (does that make sense,lol)
I know he is baldheaded, but thats all I know.


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

That bird is probably spread blue (black), but could be dilute (dun) if you say he looks a little funny in the hand.

The bird could maybe be T-pattern, but because of all the white it impossible to tell for sure. A good T-pattern and spread look pretty much the same on their backs, wings and necks.


----------



## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

he shows rosewing and looks like a halfsider magpie.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

As Rudolph said. The bird is likely to be spread blue but could be T pattern.
Would need to see the tail to be sure and if its all white then breeding tests are the only way to confirm.

It is certainly not Kite.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Ill get a pic of its tail


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Looks black to me. Could be a very dark blue t-pattern. Sometimes spreads are coarse and you can tell where the pattern is.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

What exactly looks off about him? Miscolored overall (could be dun, could have some bronze leaking through, roller bronze, the weakest of them all, is of course common in rollers), or are you talking about maybe light edging that suggests t-pattern rather than spread?


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)




----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

That does not help to tell the difference between spread and T pattern, No matter how close you get the camera, we would need to see the tail bar.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Im uploading one of the tail.
That was to show the coloring on the back mixed with the black.

The tail is solid white, expect for 1 black spot towards the upper back.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Ill have to retake a picture of the tail, the one I had, didnt save and I delated it from the camera already..


----------



## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Your bird looks like spread blue (black) with a little of some type of bronze, or maybe heterozygous recessive red. However, since it has no colored tail feathers to observe whether it would have a tail bar or not, one can not be certain if it's spread. If it is not spread then it's t-check pattern, if it is spread then it will only be possible to determine pattern by mating it to a blue bar. Check is dominant so some of the offspring will be check if it's check. If it's spread blue bar and you mate it to a bar then all offspring will be bar. However, if the offspring are also spread, which is also dominant, then their pattern will also be difficult to determine. Spread birds express no, or very faint, tail bar.


----------



## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Very nice bird.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks. 
I only have a silver bar I can breed him to.would that work?


----------



## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Ya, silver bar will work fine to determine pattern. It is a silver, rather than dun, right? The reason that I ask is because spread dilute tends to not mask pattern as thoroughly. If it has a tail bar it's not spread.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

I beleive she is a silver bar:


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes she is a silver bar by the looks of things. 
Pair her to the "spread"

We could list all the possible outcomes and what they mean but that could take a while so its best to breed them and let us know what you get

A few quick notes though

If all birds are short downed then your cockbird is infact dun ( although I think this is unlikely )

If all the birds are spread he is homozygous for spread. (IMO you would need to breed about 20 spreads off him and nothing else to be certain and even then odds would allow for the fact he may not be) (Rudolph, I am not sure how you do it but wanna work out the odds of that) hehe

If 50% are bar and 50% are spread then he is a blue bar - heterozygous spread (black).

If you get only Tchecks and no spreads then he is T check ( would need to have visible tailbars on the young to be certain )

If you get checks, bars and spreads then he is Het spread, Check carrying bar.

Ok so I listed a heap anyway but you get the drift (hopefully) With all these scenarios a lot of birds would need to be bred for certainty but as soon as you breed a bird that doesn't fit one of the above you can eliminate them.


----------



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

That helps alot!
thanks


----------

