# Pigeons dying with head bent backwards



## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

I had four pigeons, which I got about two weeks ago. They all were doing fine until one of the pigeons got into some All Flock feed and ate a lot. After he had eaten so much, every time he drank he would tip back his head with his beak open, and sometimes stretched his wings at the same time. After 4-5 days of being like that he died, I found him on the floor with his legs back and his head bent backwards, I picked him up and after a few spasms of flapping he died. The other three seemed fine until yesterday one more pigeon starting being just slightly inactive. She didn't quite land perfectly, and she seemed to not be flying as well. Then this morning she was found dead in the same position. She never got into any food she wasn't supposed to though so I don't understand? We feed them 1 tablespoon each of a mix of wild bird seed, cracked corn, and Purina All Flock, along with plain grit in a separate container. Is this a disease or is it something we are feeding them?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*

Is any of their feed getting wet or sitting in moisture? That can kill pigeons. What is an all flock feed?

You really should get a pigeon seed mix for the birds, that is what is made for them. Not sure what is going on there, but pigeons should NOT eat cracked corn, they only eat whole seeds. With cracked corn, you have no barrier to moisture and the corn can get wet and mildew, also it may have sharp edges. *


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *
> 
> Is any of their feed getting wet or sitting in moisture? That can kill pigeons. What is an all flock feed?
> 
> You really should get a pigeon seed mix for the birds, that is what is made for them. Not sure what is going on there, but pigeons should NOT eat cracked corn, they only eat whole seeds. With cracked corn, you have no barrier to moisture and the corn can get wet and mildew, also it may have sharp edges. *


No, its not wet at all, but the cracked corn is a little bit old. Maybe that is the problem? Here is a link to All Flock, does it look okay? http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/poultry/naturewise-poultry/naturewise-all-flock/index.jsp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*How old is the crack corn and is it left exposed to where moisture got in it?

Whole flock feed looks good for other types of farm birds, but not pigeons.

Pigeon seed has WHOLE corn in the mix of seeds, and that is what they need. The pigeon seed mix supplies the rainbow of vitamins and nutrients they need. Also, put it in an air tight container away from moisture. *


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *How old is the crack corn and is it left exposed to where moisture got in it?
> 
> Whole flock feed looks good for other types of farm birds, but not pigeons.
> 
> Pigeon seed has WHOLE corn in the mix of seeds, and that is what they need. The pigeon seed mix supplies the rainbow of vitamins and nutrients they need. Also, put it in an air tight container away from moisture. *


It could be over a year. ): It's in a bag, but not airtight at all. I won't feed them it anymore. 

Yes, I feed it to my waterfowl and chickens too. I was told it would be fine, what is bad about it? 

Where can I buy pigeon seed cheaply? And would pigeon seed be all that they need?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

what is bad about it? 
*Nothing is bad about it, but it is made for farm birds, not pigeons. Pigeons have completely different needs-they are a different species, they do well on a pigeon seed mix. They cannot digest old moist/damp seed and grain, as it can kill them due to fungus/mold and just being damp. Pigeon seed mix, needs to be kept in an air tight container.
*
Where can I buy pigeon seed cheaply? And would pigeon seed be all that they need? *You can usually buy it at feed stores, or pigeon/bird pet shops. Yes, that is all the food they need.

*


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> what is bad about it?
> *Nothing is bad about it, but it is made for farm birds, not pigeons. Pigeons have completely different needs-they are a different species, they do well on a pigeon seed mix. They cannot digest old moist/damp seed and grain, as it can kill them due to fungus and just being damp.
> *
> Where can I buy pigeon seed cheaply? And would pigeon seed be all that they need? *You can usually buy it at feed stores, or pigeon/bird pet shops. Yes, that is all the food they need. *


Okay. Is it okay if they eat that and wild bird seeds until we get pigeon seeds? 

And do you think it was the cracked corn that killed them? Because the corn is over a year old, and it could have gotten wet, moldy, and then dried out.

So just to make sure, for two pigeons should I do one tablespoon of all flock and one tablespoon of wild bird seed until I get pigeon seed?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Okay. Is it okay if they eat that and wild bird seeds until we get pigeon seeds? 
*Just feed the wild bird seed for now. Make sure they have access to a separate bowl of water-don't let them drink from other water. Add some organic apple cider vinegar in it a few times a week ( tablespoon to a gallon water) . *

And do you think it was the cracked corn that killed them? Because the corn is over a year old, and it could have gotten wet, moldy, and then dried out.
*I can't be sure but it is very likely. Did the first bird that died have access to the corn? When I am weaning a baby pigeon from formula to seed, I will wet the seed for ten minutes and then feed, just so they get water. Any left overs are immediately thrown away because it becomes toxic after an hour and it cannot be saved. *

So just to make sure, for two pigeons should I do one tablespoon of all flock and one tablespoon of wild bird seed until I get pigeon seed?

*I wouldn't feed the all flock, just wild bird seed, a tablespoon for each bird per meal. 

Pigeons need a good calcium grit too!*


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> Okay. Is it okay if they eat that and wild bird seeds until we get pigeon seeds?
> *Just feed the wild bird seed for now. Make sure they have access to a separate bowl of water-don't let them drink from other water. Add some organic apple cider vinegar in it a few times a week ( tablespoon to a gallon water) . *
> 
> Ok, we will. Is it bad if a broody chicken drinks from it? If so we can prevent it. I'll see if we have any acv, what does it help with?
> ...


Do oyster shells work? If we provide small stone/sand grit with it?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. oyster shell breaks down to supply them with calcium. It's good for that, but a pigeon grit is what they need to break down the seeds and help them to digest them.
I do have to say that my birds have always gotten cracked corn, and they have never had a problem. But corn does pick up mold easily if it gets damp, so you need to be careful and make sure it is kept very well. No moisture at all, ever. 

Also, these birds may have been sick when you got them, so that is also a possibility. I would keep an eye on these 2 and feed them something else till you can get a pigeon mix. Even a dove mix for now. Watch them for an signs of illness. If the feed had been bad, then I would think that it would have affected the chickens as well. I wouldn't get any new birds for a while till you are sure these are not sick. And when you do bring in new birds, you should always keep them separate for a month to be sure they are not sick with anything before putting them with birds you already have. It can take a while for illness to show, and people have brought in new birds and infected their whole loft with sickness. If these 2 that died were mates, then one could have had something that the other one caught from him also.


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> No. oyster shell breaks down to supply them with calcium. It's good for that, but a pigeon grit is what they need to break down the seeds and help them to digest them.
> I do have to say that my birds have always gotten cracked corn, and they have never had a problem. But corn does pick up mold easily if it gets damp, so you need to be careful and make sure it is kept very well. No moisture at all, ever.
> 
> Also, these birds may have been sick when you got them, so that is also a possibility. I would keep an eye on these 2 and feed them something else till you can get a pigeon mix. Even a dove mix for now. Watch them for an signs of illness. If the feed had been bad, then I would think that it would have affected the chickens as well. I wouldn't get any new birds for a while till you are sure these are not sick. And when you do bring in new birds, you should always keep them separate for a month to be sure they are not sick with anything before putting them with birds you already have. It can take a while for illness to show, and people have brought in new birds and infected their whole loft with sickness. If these 2 that died were mates, then one could have had something that the other one caught from him also.


I have grit for them too. 

What they are eating right now is a wild bird seed (not the kind they were eating before, a brand new bag) with many different kinds of seeds, including cracked corn. I made sure it was all dry. We opened the bag and then put the seed into ice cream pails with lids, will that keep them plenty dry? 

I don't know if they were sick or not, but they certainly seemed healthy. Although the first one to die had kind of ripped up feathers. 

I know that the All Flock feed isn't bad, my geese, ducks, and chickens all eat it and are fine, but none of them have been eating the old cracked corn, we are getting rid of that. 

We won't get any new ones for a while to be safe then. The two that died weren't mates yet, but they did sleep in the same nest box. I don't think they had ever fed each other though. Thank you very much!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they were sleeping in the same nest box, then they were probably mates, or young siblings. How old are they?


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> If they were sleeping in the same nest box, then they were probably mates, or young siblings. How old are they?


No they weren't mates, but we put them together because we wanted them to be mates. The male was 3 years old and the female was just molting into her adult plumage with neck irridescence.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Where do you keep them? Pictures?


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## NathanZee (May 12, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Where do you keep them? Pictures?


In a large barn. I'm afraid I don't really have any good pictures of where they are.


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