# Lewis (squished head) as a mother?



## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Lewis, a rescued pigeon with severe brain damage (mostly blind) appears to be showing hen behaviors. Thread here http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-pigeon-with-partially-squished-head-66482.html

"she" is currently living with another bird, a homer, gender unknown. Neither show extreme male pigeon behavior. The homer does not coo, bow and spin. Lewis coos, poofs up and half spins, never a full turn. At first white bird hated Lewis, dragging him across the cage by his head feathers and pecking him violently every time he came near. Lewis, being mentally handicapped, seemed oblivious there was another pigeon in the cage. He just cooed and bowed all over the cage.

Recently things have changed. Lewis has finally realized he lives with another pigeon, and preens white bird. It's very sweet. Lewis has started laying in various spots around the cage cooing. I put a handful of straw in the cage and white bird picks it up and drops it in front of or on Lewis. 

So the question is, whos what? Did white bird mate with Lewis and is Lewis displaying female nesting behavior? Or is Lewis a male and white bird a female who is reacting to her base instincts to have a mate? If Lewis is a female and attempting to lay eggs, there will be upped nutritional requirements he can't get on his own. Raising squeakers? I don't know...confused and looking for advice on what is going on. Could both be female and acting on base instincts with spring coming?


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## The Pigeon Girl (Jul 3, 2010)

You know, it's kind of hard to tell over the internet. Could you post a video? Both male and female birds, drop nest material infront of the opposite bird. Usaully, the male will sit and coo in the nest, the female will come over and sit on him. Males will spin a full circle, coo, whilst dragging their tail, hens wont. Hens will coo, but it sounds distorted. They will not turn a full circle either. Another way to tell gender, is to look at the birds head. A head that goes straight back, and isnt round, is usaully a hen. A cock, will have a more round head and look bigger . His crop will be puffed out , also the crop is the little place under the beak that holds food.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

The tough thing is Lewis has a distorted head, he was hit by a car and his head was the size of a golf ball when I found him, it's a bit off now. He's the wild card, as I can't quite trust his behavior to be a gender definition. He went from needing to be force fed for a long time, to slowly developing some normal pigeon behavior. He still only eats defrosted peas, no seed. He does not drink water either, only peas. 

I will take a video next time I catch the behavior. White bird just not exude pigeon masculinity


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Do you really need them to be a pair of opposite sex?
I am glad though that Lewis gets along with the homer. I told you a partner will work.
I have females who sit together. You can slip in a fake egg, if they accept it and you think that will make then happy.

And if it's the opposite sex ? Do you want the babies? I think Lewis can do a good job to feed them. All it takes is to regurgitate the food. The father will help also and when they grow will show them the pigeon behavior.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm simply happy they get along at this point, the fact lew acknowledges and relates to another pigeon wells me up with pride. You were right! I think having another bird around does him a world of good! 
Do I need babies? Hell no! But I do want my birds needs met. Lewis can live out his/her life mostly without those strong erges, but I worry about white bird, a perfectly healthy and capable specimen. White bird is desperate for real interaction, staring longingly at the few pigeons who take up around the neighbors house while he's on balcony fly time. I guess I just want to know what the relationship is for both, is it fulfilled or unfulfilled. Does white bird need a mate? Are they a couple? Does Lewis need a mate? My little fighter always surprises me.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Here's a video of the birds just for shape reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzUNDSeqVVc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## The Pigeon Girl (Jul 3, 2010)

thank you that was much easier. lewis is the male. the white is the hen.


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## The Pigeon Girl (Jul 3, 2010)

Or they could be hens. but lewis behavior seems like cock behavior.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Lewis looks like a female. Females dance like males too. I have females who want to "jump" on females. LOL

Isn't a bit crowded for Lewis with those logs? Or you put that as a barrier between the two of them? I think some brick is better though.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Haha...I was also gonna say I suspect the Homer to be the girl. Sooooo hard to tell...quite honestly, I would not even put much stock in 'male behaviour'/'female behaviour'. I have had Pigeon pals who I swore were one sex, then turned out to be the opposite.

I am very happy that Lewis is doing well. You have provided him (her? ) with a very enriching life considering his circumstances. Well done.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Lewis was moving a lot in the video because I had just put the bowl and the Clementine box in there, he backed himself into a corner and was trying to figure out what was what. White bird stands still because he is is scared of me. (I'm just going to keep saying he until I figure this out!)

They have been rotating in and out of the dog bowl. Lewis sits in it quietly, white bird does a low deep coo and flicks his tail feathers. They were both sitting in it this morning. I still have not seen white bird coo, bow or turn. He just does a low rumbling coo. Lewis spends a lot of time preening white bird, white bird doesn't preen Lewis much at all.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Good links for feather DNA testing?


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Neither bird has laid an egg at this point, I would assume if it was cock hen or hen hen at least one bird would lay, right? I still have not seen any signs of mating, but they are religiously taking turns in the dog bowl. There is nearly always one in it, except for a few moments when they both get off and preen and putz around the cage. I did the pelvic bone test this morning. I could fit my finger in Lewis pelvic bone, I could not in white birds. I know some people say that test is hokey, so I don't know. I do agree white bird looks awfully effeminate compared to the picture of male homers I've looked at. When I handled white bird to do the test this morning he was far more agitated then usual. I don't handle him often, generally I just scoop him up and bring him upstairs to the balcony on nice days. Today he puffed up, cooed and pecked, which he's never done before. Lewis never shows behavior like this, as he's quite tame and loves human handling. I've only ever had one other pigeon, raised squeaker. This bird, despite being hand raised, bowed and cooed every time he saw me, wing slapped, bit and shook, and eventually "mated" with both my hand and head. Never doubted he was a boy for a second!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Lewis is very sweet!  And the homer is nice looking!
As said earlier, sometimes its very difficult to tell the difference. You can have 2 hens and one will take on the role of a cock  I had (what I thought) was 2 hens inside one winter together for months. Neither displayed any cock behavior......ever!
This is what I ended up with.........


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Some pics
http://clip2net.com/s/4UIpsY


http://clip2net.com/s/4UIvcR

http://clip2net.com/s/4UIzu7

We did some cage redesign. My boyfriend originally built the cage for a blind, mentally handicapped and flightless pigeon, white bird was a surprise we were going to rehome. Now that they seem to have a partnership we added some things for white bird. The platform replaces the Clementine box, the ramp is for Lewis but it still needs some grips for walking up. There will be another roost for white bird above the platform. The "nest" is underneath. Sorry for the mess, I've been changing the papers more infrequently for fear of 
disturbing them. I also dumped some yard stuff in there for nesting material if they want it.
http://clip2net.com/s/4UIEpM


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Well what an adorable happy accident!


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

So, white bird is now mating with Lewis? Is this a clear sign? Could Lewis be a male being raped, or could white bird just be a frustrated hen?


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Also, Lewis was sticking his beak in white birds mouth, like he wanted food


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

I will say, as confusing and nerve racking as this all might be for me,
I remember I had a bird that looked like this http://clip2net.com/s/4UTJZ7 with bleeding eyes, who could not eat on her own for a long time, who went from incapable of survival to learning to eat indepentently, to forming a relationship. I can't say, with all modern medicine, if my head was smacked by a car, I'd have the same results. What a spectacular bird and spectacular
Community that saved her.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I would say that Lewis is a female


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

It does seem that way! Lewis was eating her peas as usual, butt in the air. While Lewis was eating white bird was circling, occasionally opening mouth and positioning over Lewis neck. Every once and awhile Lewis would look up and stick her beak in "his" mouth. Finally white bird mounted, it was quick and Lewis, flustered, went back to eating peas. I'm not sure it was successful, I've seen many a chicken mate and think I can tell between a successful breeding and one where the tail gets in the way and the bird falls off. Not but a few minutes later it happened again, white bird, beak ajar, positioning over (oblivious) Lewis. This mating was longer, and after Lewis walked over to the nest and sat down. White bird seemed poofed and proud. As curious as I was, the boyfriend was yelling at me to give them privacy and get out of their business so I didn't watch everything!


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## Siobhan (Dec 21, 2010)

Female pigeons can display "male" behavior, too. Maggie bows, fans her tail and spins in circles (we call it "sweeping the floor") and coos so much and so loud we've asked her to tone it down because she's drowning out the TV. I know for a fact she's a female because this week she presented me with two more eggs, bringing her grand total to 10, unless I've lost count, in the two years we've had her.


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

It's definetly a tough call. The mating has continued every evening. They are both still tacking turns in the nest, Lewis is still preening white bird frequently. White bird has been acting differently, tougher. I haven't spent much time with Lewis lately, wanting to give her space in her new relationship. I used to handle Lewis daily, trying to fill any niches she was missing with her disability. I missed her and fed her some peas tonight, white bird shot me death glares the whole time. When I used to approach white bird he'd freak out, flying away, panicking. I reachEd a hand up to him, and instead of his normal flight he poofed up, I was even able to run a finger down his wing before he said a loud rumbling coo. Eventually he got uncomforable and flew away, hitting the floor with a low rumbling coo. It definetly seems as though he is taking up a role, I was shocked at his behavior.

I was sad that Lewis, the bird I invested so much time, money, and most importantly love in had moved on, but that saddness will eventually be over whelmed by watching my wonderful pigeon, being a pigeon.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Lovely..Lewis will have a pigeon life. 
Isn't that which you wanted ? He/she grew into your heart and now you may have some residual feelings of jealousy


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## Otis7 (Sep 1, 2012)

Its tough! All you want is for them to be a normal pigeon, then they become one and you miss them! As much as I miss our relationship, words cant describe how happy I am she is living a fulfilled life! She's still quite friendly with me, just too busy to bother!


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