# Topo & President



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I am curious if anyone out there have any grandchildren to Topo or President?
I am considering purchasing birds of this bloodline to cross with my Sions.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> I am curious if anyone out there have any grandchildren to Topo or President?
> I am considering purchasing birds of this bloodline to cross with my Sions.


personally in my honest opinion just having the name in their pedigree isnt enuf these days , you need to see some racing results from the person selling and flying these birds ,as with most these people selling these birds they dont even fly them and so many people just have birds with the names in their birds background (pedigrees and have nothing to show ... Im sure others will come along with better info thou


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

From what I have read, being a grandchild of a famous bird, is a little too far removed from the original, to have a large percentage chance of the bird also being a winner. Of course, there are exceptions to everything.

I have a President grandson but I do not have any race results to report, as he is a prisoner and I have not bred from him yet. Here is a pic. He is a top perch bird and takes no guff from any of the other birds. I will breed some young from him next year.

I am not selling anything. Not this bird nor any offspring. I am just making conversation.

Here he is. Beautiful bird, if you like white flights.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2009)

conditionfreak said:


> From what I have read, being a grandchild of a famous bird, is a little too far removed from the original, to have a large percentage chance of the bird also being a winner. Of course, there are exceptions to everything.
> 
> I have a President grandson but I do not have any race results to report, as he is a prisoner and I have not bred from him yet. Here is a pic. He is a top perch bird and takes no guff from any of the other birds. I will breed some young from him next year.
> 
> ...



I agree a very handsome bird indeed , I hope he does you well in the flying field


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

A beautiful bird.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm liking the looks of that bird  And yes, I do love a bird with white flights.

President as in the Ganus bird President? I have a hen...great granddaughter of President. I'm not too concerned with the names in the pedigree as this bird was a Christmas present anyways. I just hope all these fancy names in her pedigree prove something in the breeding loft.


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

bbcdon said:


> I am curious if anyone out there have any grandchildren to Topo or President?
> I am considering purchasing birds of this bloodline to cross with my Sions.


I have two sons of the President. One of them is a super breeder and his grandchildren are now beginning to produce Federation winners.
I had one daughter of Topo / Inbred Kannibaal that I sold earlier ... but stocked many of her young with different cocks.

Son of President/Sterling x Daughter of Topo was my top combination in 2004 when I won 5th Champion Loft Mercedes Classic. Those children went on to breed multiple Federation winners. That daughter of Topo went
on to breed 1st place winner in big competition in Florida for the lucky buyer.

Son of President/Golden Breeder x Daughter of Super Champion bred me some of my top birds in 08 Youngbirds.

Son of President/Sterling x Gd of Golden Mattens bred me top birds in 08 Youngbirds.

I don't want to articulate my winnings out of these matings ... but let's say I have made my money back many times over.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

bbcdon said:


> I am curious if anyone out there have any grandchildren to Topo or President?
> I am considering purchasing birds of this bloodline to cross with my Sions.


If by "President", you mean the bird which was named that by Mike Ganus, which was bred by Joep Koch, NL-9397578-93 BB 1st National Ace, Short Distance All Holland NPO 1995, 1st National Ace Pigeon 1995 - Vredesduif, 4 times fastest bird, same season, against 25,000 - 40,000 birds. Numerous prize winner. Sire to numerous winners and foundation breeders. 

Then yes, I own grandchildren from that famous sire, as I purchased a 2001 daughter out of him ("First Lady"), when he was mated to his own daughter "Perfect Lady", after she produced an $8000 One Loft Winner. I also have a number of her sons, when she was mated to one of her own sons. At $6000 at a pop, for unproven YB's from this famous sire, I personally was willing to pay up for what has turned out to be a very good breeder. If you own good representatives, and they are paired correctly, then I suspect that you also should produce some good ones. In "First Lady's" case, she has now produced YB's with over $15,000 in winnings. And so has become one of my key foundation dams.

With children of Topo, a lot of people have also had sucess, but we did not. May simply have been our particular pairings, or perhaps we acquired birds that were not the best representatives. As everyone knows, not every offspring from a famous sire or dam, will produce the goods. Which is why I attempt to acquire proven breeders and/or racers, that does not always work, but the odds are more in your favor I think.

For reasons unknown, some families simply do not cross well. I have been fortunate, perhaps lucky, that when I cross some of the key family lines, such as Duke x First Lady lines, the end result is often better then the orginal parental lines. These "New and Improved" models, forms the basis of my "Warren's" or "Smith's", which are in reality, a bastardization based on what happened to cross the finish lines, ahead of everyone else. 

So, IMHO, it's not the particular "names" which may appear in a bird's pedigree, it's the bird in the hand, and if they have those winning traits, and can past those performance genes on to the next generation, that really matters. In our case, with "First Lady", she felt perfect in the hand, and had all those good qualities, plus she passed those traits on to her winning offspring. And that, you will never really know, untill you breed from them, and then race the offspring.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks to all of you for the input. My knowledge is miniscule, so that is why I ask these questions. The expertise on this site is extraordinary!


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> Thanks to all of you for the input. My knowledge is miniscule, so that is why I ask these questions. The expertise on this site is extraordinary!


 just so you know I think the bird you are bidding on has a great look about it ,hope it proves to do you good if you get it


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> just so you know I think the bird you are bidding on has a great look about it ,hope it proves to do you good if you get it


I wanna seeeee


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

here he is , mighty fine if you ask me


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I have always wondered how do you take a pic off a site and post it like that?


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

just right click the image and copy the address and then come here and click the insert image thingy and paste the address in there


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thank you. I learn something new on this site every day.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

your verywelcome , you only have to ask and we will try to help in anyway we can


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Here are 2 more pics of birds I am bidding on.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The adult bird pictured looks a lot like my SVR cockbirds. Looks great  I like birds with big ceres like that.

And the babies are cute!


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> Here are 2 more pics of birds I am bidding on.


I like the second one more then the first but good luck with them ,hope they prove to be great birds for you if you win them


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

They are nestmates, and double inbred grandchildren of Dream Boy.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2009)

they both look great I just like the stockier look of the second one is all , might just be that its a male thou lol but Im sure if they got the background they should have the will too ..goodluck


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