# Advice on helping kevin (new found friend)



## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

3 weeks ago a racing pidgeon appeared in the garden with a really swollen foot (5 time larger at the ankle) 
We called him or her kevin, kevin arrives at sun rise and leaves at sun set every day. We have had to STOP puting our left over food on the garden as he eats anything chocolate, bread, yorkshire pudding,raw sausage, even cheesey leaks the only thing he didnt eat was pop corn.

Up till now we couldnt see his ring, but 3 days ago out of the blue I was eating a buscuit and he jumped up on my lap, now if I shout kevin and he sees a tip bit he flys on my arm to eat, to be honest if you give him food you can pat, stroke and hold him, he doesnt care.

Now the problem is he likes to swoop down and land on your head or tries to get in the house if you leave the door open.

It turns out he belongs to the GB club, I emailed them but they wont contact the owner unless hes boxed.

I like kevin and worry if the onwer gets him back that cos he has a bad foot and quite large from eating neighbours food they will just kill him as he will be no good for racing. Is this true?

If kevin ended up staying around how can I get his leg sorted, i've read on here about vets just putting them down, it may sound sad but I want the best for kevin.

kevin would be welcome to stay if I can him to stop swooping on to peoples heads as he worrys the neighbours children.

Any advice would be gratfull i.e

1. Should i keep him?

2. if yes how shoudl I get his leg sorted?

3. Should I build him a home and lock him at night and let him out during the day?

4. Should I build a free coop for him to come and go?

5. Where is he likely to be go at night?

6. Can I get him to stop swooping?


Hope you can help 

David


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He sounds like a sweet bird. It's odd he is eating all those things you mentioned and left the pop corn? He might have been someones pet and he is used to eating all kind of foods.
I would definately keep him and build or buy him a cage and keep him indoors, at least at night. Another reason to keep him indoors is so he can't swoop on people's heads, someone might get really annoyed and hurt him. 
As for the leg, can you post some pics? Is he walking on it? Is the band on the leg that's injured?

Reti


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Certainly best to secure him, at least temporarily. Do you have a largish cage, a dog crate or someplace you can keep him for now? What you can then do, as Reti has advised, is to get a nice clear pic of the swollen foot/leg so we can see something of what's going on. I'd say that needs to be sorted out in case it gets infected. Swellings on/around a joint can be caused by a bacterial infection, though it is often accompanied by inability to fly, but if it is on the leg with the band then the band may be causing a problem somehow.

Can you tell us roughly where you are (nearest town/city), as there may be local help available. 

I assume you mailed the RPRA. As you said, they aren't too interested unless the bird is secured. Racers do often hang out for a while then try to make their way home. It is always a toss up whether an owner will collect or arrange for a bird to be returned, or just say "let it loose". 

For me, just letting a bird loose if it is injured or ill is not an option. I always check what the fate of the bird will be with owners. If they are reluctant to arrange return (as the RPRA's clubs expect them to do) and don't come across as caring about their bird, then they don't get it back. I've dealt with good 'rule-abiding' owners, and the other kind!

Vets should definitely not just put a racing pigeon down. The problem is that vets may insist on getting instructions from the owner before treating or not treating a bird. They may put it down if that's what the owner tells them he wants, unfortunately.

So, get 'Kevin' into safety and we can take it from there.


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for your reply, I will give kevin a treat tomorrow so he stands still for a close up picture of his leg, just so you guys know its not the ring leg. Its swollen at the ankle, he walks on some times in a hobbling sence but thats only if he sits in the sun all day after fill up on rubish however since we stopped putting food so he does not have access to rubish left overs that im sure he shouldnt eat, he flys around a lot more looking for neighbours food this in turn makes his leg worse and holds it up more, standing on one.

Any idea where he goes at night? Because its now soon going to be his fourth week and hes managed to not get eaten or attacked by cats or foxes.

(John I live in the north east of england, stockton, teesside)

Thanks again


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Pigeons will normally be looking for as high a roosting place as they can find, whilst still being sheltered from the elements. Crevices in walls, roof overhangs, under bridges, window ledges (I have three on my window ledge right now  ), etc. If nothing more suitable they may get up on a roof beside a chimney stack or, if all else fails, in a tree (less likely).

Yes, be useful to see the damage. Hopefully we may get an idea or two as to cause.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I agree with all...DO get Kevin inside. Seems he has no qualms about it, so do that. 

Now...you could very well just ASK the previous owner (I say previous because, IMHO, if a club or racing guy KNOWS where the bird is but will not bother even _coming_ unless someone else does the work of securing the Pigeon...they don't deserve the Pigeon back).

Once we see pics we can advise how to medicate or whether an avian vet is a better idea. if the latter, remove the band just take him in and tell them you found/adopted him, so he's yours now.

BTW...no more chocolate, please 

If he likes coming to your place, you could just keep him. Bring him in in the afternoons, keep him inside for teh eve, and let him out in the AM. he apparently is 'homing' somewhat to YOU...so he may well like the arrangement more than his current overnight sleeping digs. If it seems to be working out where he does return in the afternoon and allows you to bring him in...then you can build him a sleeping enclosure.

Thanks for caring, thanks for helping !


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set...0232315871215.361576.700046214&type=1&theater

There are two links to my face book with kevins foot and home I built. Its 1005 cm wide x 600 cm deep and 700 cm high.

Also any advice on should I let him out once hes in and how often and what should I feed him and how much also whats the next stage to sort his foot out?

Thanks

David


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Kevin's home look great, add a bowl of water and a bowl of seeds, and some grit if you can get hold of and a perch, like a brick or piece of wood he can stand on. 
Also, pigeons like to be high up, so maybe you can put the cage onto a table or counter, if not that's ok too.

I wouldn't let him outdoors, you can let him out for some exercise in your home or garage if you have. But I do think he is vulnerable to predators outside, including humans, since he is such a friendly bird.
The leg needs to be sorted. The pic is not very clear, but I think there is a wound on the bottom inner side? That might have gotten infected. If that's the case he will need antibiotics. Anything you have on hand like Cipro, Amoxicillin, Ampicillin?

Reti


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi, if you look close you can make out a circle on his foot its hole just a bit smaller that a pen TOP not the small tip. Its full of rubish. I might take him to the vets and tell a small lie and say hes my pigeon that went missing and come back with a bad foot, that way I can get him treated. 

Im a bit gutted that he cant go free during the day as he likes to sit a sun bathe. 

Thanks Again

PS anything I need to do to stop flys and fleas bothering him


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi 
As from today Monday 25th kevin is safly in his new home, only thing is that unless hes eating he likes to flap and push his feet up at the bars to be free. I placed a black cloth over the front which seams to carm him down and he walks in to the straw nesting side.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The owner should be contacted to see if they do indeed want him back... you can ask what will happen to kevin..and if it does not sound good...ask to keep him.


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi Spirit, I spent 3 weeks trying to get to know kevin and evantully got his number , I then found his club from the GB tag. I contected them asap but were very much dont bother us until you have him boxed and after 48 hrs rest will prob fly home. I tryed to explane by clock work he comes every sun rise and leaves every sun set but still they wanted him boxed before contacting the owner. It takes 2 to 3 days for them to respond plus however long it takes owner to get back in contact and there was no way I was putting an animal in a box for a week. Hence why I built a cage with a bit of room before catching him.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

helping kevin said:


> Hi Spirit, I spent 3 weeks trying to get to know kevin and evantully got his number , I then found his club from the GB tag. I contected them asap but were very much dont bother us until you have him boxed and after 48 hrs rest will prob fly home. I tryed to explane by clock work he comes every sun rise and leaves every sun set but still they wanted him boxed before contacting the owner. It takes 2 to 3 days for them to respond plus however long it takes owner to get back in contact and there was no way I was putting an animal in a box for a week. Hence why I built a cage with a bit of room before catching him.


I see, hard to tell how long it would take for the owner to get back to you if he was in a pet carrier or something.. that would of been fine for him to live in for a few days.. when he gets in the cage..they should contact you to pick him up pretty quick if they want their bird back.


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

I emailed The Royal Pigeon Racing Association again today to tell them he is now caged, and will give them till wed/thurs to resopnd if not Im going to take him to the vet as Im worried that the hole in his foot will get maggots in it. The sad thing is if they passed my number to the owner we could have had this sorted a week ago.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

helping kevin said:


> I emailed The Royal Pigeon Racing Association again today to tell them he is now caged, and will give them till wed/thurs to resopnd if not Im going to take him to the vet as Im worried that the hole in his foot will get maggots in it. The sad thing is if they passed my number to the owner we could have had this sorted a week ago.


they really can not do much if the bird is not secured..so it would be a waste of time if he was still flying around outside.. so that is where they are coming from.. I think the time line sounds fair..and hope you get to keep him.. you can clean the foot with peroxide mixed with warm water..and try to soak it a bit..


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Sounds like you are doing right by the Pigeon.

Quite honestly....I am getting the sense of dawdling despite your best to locate the owner and explain the situation to the Club. This is usually a sign of someone not wanting him back....
As often is the case with Racer/Homer owners and clubs...they don't care much for retrieving a lost Homer....because they are little 'use' to them any longer. It is the thing I find very reprehensible about many racing lofts. They brought the Pigeon into the world and they took the responsibility for feeding and raising and training him/her. They have a responsibility, then , to look out for his welfare. But the way many racers look at it, he's just a bad investment... and why should they bother any longer ?

Sorry for the digression....BTW, your photos can only be accessed by people w/ a f'book account (and believe it or not, a lotta people do NOT do f'book ). So perhaps you can post someplace where unlocked or public viewing is allowed ?

I do agree...get Kevin to a vet and just tell the vet he's yours, or you are caring for a friend's loft while he is on vacation and you saw this one Pigeon looking badly.

Here is my concern: that injury has been there a very long tome, and avians do not 'heal' or 'fight off' injury and infection the way mammals do. I really think your pal needs some meds ASAP.


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

I dont think its the owners falt as such as it was the The Royal Pigeon Racing Association wouldnt contect the owner untill I had boxed him which I kinda see the point but the anoying thing was I tryed to explane its been 3 weeks of returning each day so the 48hr rule of rest and he will fly home was a wast of time. 
Also if they had let the owner contacted me I could have got kevin into a box for a day. But I wasnt perpared to box him for ages as a little unfair on him. But as I said they have till prob wednesday to ring or i will pay for him to go to the vets. 

Only issue I have is he likes being out of the cage and not locked up.

ps I think he may be a she lol


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

as of the pics being on the FB account. do you know of any other ways i can put them on so people can see them ? thanks again everyone for replying !


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

helping kevin said:


> as of the pics being on the FB account. do you know of any other ways i can put them on so people can see them ? thanks again everyone for replying !


you can post them here.. scroll down to mangage attachments.


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

[/ATTACH]

uploaded foot and cage


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh wow..what a perfect cage... foot does not look too terrible.. someone will be along to help with that Iam sure.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Now that you explained the wound, I think you should get him to a vet and have it cleaned out. That gung in there will not dissapear on it's own and will only keep infections going.
He will adjust to his new home, maybe some day you can build him an aviary or/and get him a mate.

Reti


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

just a quick note the foot you can see is 3 to 5 times larger than his other foot. it swollen at the ankle. Also door side of the cage is now filled with straw for bedding, just need to buy couple of covered bowels so he dont poop in his water or spill his food.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The foot is swollen, it's expected if there is foreign material in there and maybe infection.

Reti


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Reti said:


> The foot is swollen, it's expected if there is foreign material in there and maybe infection.
> 
> Reti


I agree with Reti on this, this foot needs looked at by a vet, cleaned and a course of antibiotics started. At the very least, an extended course of Baytril/Cipro should be started, could be as long as 3-6 weeks, as infections of the foot can be hard to clear completely, hence, they need an extended treatment period.

Karyn


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

*update, *

kevin almost settled exsept at 7.30 pm each night he jumps at cage and couple of ferral friends sit at the wall for him.

I found a pigeon food supplyer and he has mixed seed, only issue he wouldnt eat peas and things and corn untill i crush them, hes also got grit that i leave in the cage.

Cage has been upgraded and has to flat shelfs one in the nest side and one in the open side. Since fitting the one in the nest side this morning hes not come down.

The Royal Pigeon Racing Association was informed on monday that he is now caged and its now up to them to pass this on to the owner.

IMPORTANT: I took him to the vet today and now is on antibiotics then if hes not reclamed i need to take him back in 10 days.

QUESTION: He looks unhappy and i think hes used to flying around free or at least got a tast for it. I know he cant go back out yet as he needs his foot sorting.

What can I do? and what treats can I give him when handling him? Can he eat hamster chocolate? 

Will i ever be able to let him go and him home back to me?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What antibiotic did the vet give you for him? Did he clean out the wound in the foot?

For treats you can give him unsalted, unroasted peanuts. Most pigeons love them. Another treat is safflower seeds.

He will get used to his cage. Is there a room in your home where he can get a few hours of exercise each day where he can free fly? Or a garage? 

Reti


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

The vet looked in his foot but didnt clean it, she reckoned it may not get use of his middle toe back, then gave me baytril and said they would look at it once swelling is down. They did say there was poss of xray but not yet as kevin may not make through being sedated.

I have a garage, even though im 32 i still live at home and im walking on thin ice. Iv gone from catching kevin and ment to be getting him back to his owner, to chopping up the shlelfs to make a coop twice the size of a rabbit hutch, storing straw in the shed and bags of feed in the cupboard. 

Im looking at letting kevin fly in the garage every couple of days once the dust has settled. lol or I can drive him to my parnters flat for a fly around in the front room as shes has wood flooring thats easy to clean.

Hes started to grunt when picking him up any reason?


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, not every mother is a pigeon advocate, but I would rather see my adult son rehabbing a pigeon than playing video games or something like that.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The grunting means disagreement or fear. He still has to get used to being handled.
You're doing a great job with him. 
Hope the swelling of his foot will go down.

Reti


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for that Reti, Its a new journey and im learning every day. Today he started hitting me with his wing, so all I do is resure him with food so hopfull he will see when is nest cleaning time its also food time. Once hes on your knee with food you can do anything. I think tonight I may try him in the grarage for a fly and give him some sort of treat.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The grunting might also indicate that he's a she!

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have some of my pigeons for a long time now and when I clean their cages they still wing slap me, grunt, bite etc. They don't like anybody messing with their stuff.

Reti


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

Took him in the garage twice, hes got a new game "sit on the cupboard door while you swing it" no idea why he likes it. Plus he can only hold on with one foot as the toes on the swollen foot dont bend.

One concern i still have is he just sits in the nest side of the coop all day. Iv concidered two options one, closeing the nest side during the day as I fitted a shelf in the open side and two once hes got a clean bill of health leaving to coop open during the day and take the risk of him coming back. Yes hes safe in the coop but not happy and if he returns will lock him in for the night


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you may beable to do that when his foot gets better.. right now that needs to heal..so him being quiet is what is best.. if you want to chance it and let him out when he is healed is up to you.. but two things could happen..as a lone bird he could get singled out rather easily from birds of prey..and or he would try to fly back to his home at some point.. if you do not want to keep a prisoner bird.. IMO..I would give him to someone who has other pigeons and will keep him to breed from as he would find a mate some place that has other pigeons and perhaps an aviary he can hang out in..


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## helping kevin (Apr 22, 2011)

update: Kevins has had 20 days of antibiotics you can see half of the hole in his foot looks like its healing but the swelling is worse than ever and at times puss comes out.

His just had an extra 7 days worth of antibiotics via injection, options are keeping him caged and still treat him but he has friends, every night other pigeons come around and today when I came back from vets, i had left the cage open and a wild pigeon was in kevins house lol

or I can have him put to sleep and an operation on his foot but vet rekons good chance he will die, based on that Im thinging of taking the risk by letting him out with his friends and if he feels this is his home he will return to coop at night. if this is the case I can lock him in to keep taking him to vets.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

You know, I don't think Kevin's chances would be great in the "wild", even to return at night. Foot wounds/infections are notoriously difficult to heal in all creatures-most distal to the heart therefore less circulation. Also increased exposure to pathogens since they come into contact with so many! Have you tried washing/soaking the foot in say chlorhexidine or other antibacterial products? A pigeon's foot is challenging to wrap, but it can be done. A little 2x2 gauze and wrap with vet wrap after slathering the foot with bacitracin ointment?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

helping kevin said:


> update: Kevins has had 20 days of antibiotics you can see half of the hole in his foot looks like its healing but the swelling is worse than ever and at times puss comes out.
> 
> His just had an extra 7 days worth of antibiotics via injection, options are keeping him caged and still treat him but he has friends, every night other pigeons come around and today when I came back from vets, i had left the cage open and a wild pigeon was in kevins house lol
> 
> or I can have him put to sleep and an operation on his foot but vet rekons good chance he will die, based on that Im thinging of taking the risk by letting him out with his friends and if he feels this is his home he will return to coop at night. if this is the case I can lock him in to keep taking him to vets.


I think I can just repeat the last post I made.. the birds foot needs rest..keep him in till you get that under control..whether he has friends are not, is not important..esp if he is not around to see them... having a wild feral in around at this point could bring in unwanted bacteria.. he needs to be alone in a cage and quiet..the foot needs to be tended to.. Im sure the vet has suggested you rest him..and not fly him... I just don't get it.

as said two weeks ago: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=568234&postcount=35


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I have to agree with Spriit and Doveone....really, I do not see how letting him out into the Feral world is any sort of conceivable option (that is, unless you are really OK with him only surviving in confusion for a few days before something terrible happens to him.....and I know you are not OK with that, as you have done such a great job of investing your heart and time into helping him).

I have a big question:

What does the vet mean by saying he will not survive an operation ?

I have an observation:

The antibiotic seems to have helped partially. But partially not. My understanding is, this is Baytril he has been on, yes ?

So, one can assume that the antibiotic is only targeting part of the problem. Did you ask (or did the vet offer) that a second antibiotic can be given concurrently with the one which is being partially effective ? Or, a different antibiotic prescribed altogether ?

You see...he may have both an aerobic and anaerobic infection....and while some antbiotics are "wide-net", they never cover everything.

It's unclear whether the vet has turned over that stone or not. It would seem the next thing to try, for me (meaning, that is what MY Avian vets would do here, before suggesting a procedure under anesthesia....). 

If it's a bone injury and infection in there, my vet has had better luck with Amoxycillin, for example...or Cefa Drops...than with Baytril/Cipro.

As noted by others, he is relatively sessile because he is still not feeling well. Don't force the issue of getting him to move around until the foot gets resolved more....

...keep up the good work !


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Absolutely concur with what the others have said.

I'd not risk putting him under, either. I remember we had one who never came round from the anesthetic so we are very dubious about it unless it is a case of no chance without an op, but at least some chance with it.

Don't worry about his 'friends'. Pigeons are social birds, but don't have 'buddies' like humans do. It will do him no harm to not actually be with them for a while.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

with the help that was given to you on this site because you asked..it would be nice to follow the advice and report back.. I still find it strange when people just want to do what they want reguardless..


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