# pox on a dove



## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

I need some advice. one of my doves appears to have a sore on the side of its mouth. I have had issues with canker in my doves and pigeons the last few weeks. This bird who has the sore, did not have canker at all. im beginning to think its the pox. this is the first one who has a sore on the outside of the mouth. Its isolated away from my other birds. it was from a pen of healthy doves, who have not had issues at all. From what i read there is no cure, besides the vaccine, and its spread by mosquitos. Do i treat the bird, or should I put it down to keep my others from getting infected? We have had an insane amount of flies and mosquitos around here because of all the rain we had. It was bad enough to the point where we had to treat the property for them for the first time ever. Foys and siegels are out of stock of the vaccine.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Will this spread to my indoor house birds?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If it is like a lump on the unfeathered parts, as in around the beak or eyes, then yes it probably is pox. A pic might confirm or otherwise.

There is indeed no actual treatment, but if you isolated the bird (and ensure that is can still eat and drink), the virus frequently just runs its course and shouldnot be able to spread. Be aware, though, that the immediate environment of the bird should be disinfected.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Pox will run it's course after a couple weeks no need to hurry isolate the dove and keep it in a stress free place provide food and water and warmth. birds that heal from pox will build immunity against it so Euthenasia is an exaggerated idea give it a chance! I'm not an expert but It's a great responsibilty that the lives of these creatures are in our hands!
All the best
Regards,


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Pox do not spread through droppings or communal drinking/feeding. But it is transmitted from parents to youngsters,during fights if blood from infected blood transfers to other or if another bird pecks on a pox lesion during fights as they tend to poke each other near beaks and eyes and its the place where pox lesions usually build up. U said u have flies and mosquitos and if ur bird fight with others or is bullied/contactd by otheres,then there are fair chances of transmission. So its up to u,u wanna separate the bird or ....!
I'm in favour of its separation from others. If a mosquito/fly bite him and bite another bird he is at risk on catching it. And Immediate surroundings of the bird should be disinfected
Healthy birds overcome pox in 4 - 6 weeks. Sometimes only one or two pox lesions appear on healthy adult birds but sometimes its an outbreak. To keep the bird healthy, nutritional feed is a must. Lesions near beak and vent could prevent the bird from eating and defecating.
Yes vaccinating all other birds is desirable.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Thank you. i was wondering about the droppings. i have someone who takes my animal dropping once every couple of weeks. i think Ill not send them pigeon droppings for awhile, to be on the safe side. This bird was in a cage with four other doves. caged away from my other birds. however I have seen an unusual amount of canker in my babies and adult birds this year. None have had contact with each other. Must be from the mosquitos.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Abdulbaki said:


> Pox will run it's course after a couple weeks no need to hurry isolate the dove and keep it in a stress free place provide food and water and warmth. birds that heal from pox will build immunity against it so Euthenasia is an exaggerated idea give it a chance! I'm not an expert but It's a great responsibilty that the lives of these creatures are in our hands!
> All the best
> Regards,


Thank you. i panicked when i saw the sore. I have rare breed pigeons, and i don't want anything infecting them. The websites i read had me confused. some said to vaccinate, and treat. others said to cull. hes safe in my other barn, in a small rabbit carrier with food and water.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Abdulbaki said:


> Pox will run it's course after a couple weeks no need to hurry isolate the dove and keep it in a stress free place provide food and water and warmth. birds that heal from pox will build immunity against it so Euthenasia is an exaggerated idea give it a chance! I'm not an expert but It's a great responsibilty that the lives of these creatures are in our hands!
> All the best
> Regards,


yes its a big puffy, scabby looking sore right on the corner of the mouth. Like i said i have seen an unusual amount of canker in my birds this year. Most have recovered form that. My birds are caged in pairs, except for the baby cage for my young doves. When i saw the lesion, it scared me. I have never dealt with this before. the cage will be bleached this weekend.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

chinbunny said:


> I have seen an unusual amount of canker in my babies and adult birds this year. None have had contact with each other. Must be from the mosquitos.


Canker spreads via drinking water,pigeon milk/feed fed by parents to squabs,billing. I believe, u have medicated all the infected birds for canker and u r also running prevention course alongside for others. Canker won't go on its own ,it will have to be taken care of


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

brocky bieber said:


> Canker spreads via drinking water,pigeon milk/feed fed by parents to squabs,billing. I believe, u have medicated all the infected birds for canker and u r also running prevention course alongside for others. Canker won't go on its own ,it will have to be taken care of


yeah I gave them all some prescription metronidazole from a pharmacy. Also vaccinated for e coli, in case that was an underlying problem. the pox showing up is a new problem. 

Some of the sites i read said that pox can look like, and be confused with canker. one hen i treated is finally making a full recovery after the sores inside her mouth came back a second time, after the first treatment. this is a two year old hen who had never had it before. I had a couple babies hatch with it too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

*Pox does spread through communal eating and drinking.* And it is very contagious. But if you put a bird down every time one gets pox, and you have had many mosquitoes this year, then you could end up putting down many birds. Pox is no reason to cull a bird. If it gets so bad around the mouth or eyes that he can not eat or drink, then he may need supportive care and hand feeding. Just make sure to thoroughly wash your hands after handling the sick bird, or you risk spreading it to the others.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> *Pox do not spread through droppings or communal drinking/feeding. *But it is transmitted from parents to youngsters,during fights if blood from infected blood transfers to other or if another bird pecks on a pox lesion during fights as they tend to poke each other near beaks and eyes and its the place where pox lesions usually build up. U said u have flies and mosquitos and if ur bird fight with others or is bullied/contactd by otheres,then there are fair chances of transmission. So its up to u,u wanna separate the bird or ....!
> I'm in favour of its separation from others. If a mosquito/fly bite him and bite another bird he is at risk on catching it. And Immediate surroundings of the bird should be disinfected
> Healthy birds overcome pox in 4 - 6 weeks. Sometimes only one or two pox lesions appear on healthy adult birds but sometimes its an outbreak. To keep the bird healthy, nutritional feed is a must. Lesions near beak and vent could prevent the bird from eating and defecating.
> Yes vaccinating all other birds is desirable.



I'm sorry Brocky, but when you post something like that, you need to first have your facts right, as people will come on here and read what you post, and if they believe what they read, then they could lose a lot of birds. Pox is very contagious, and they can spread pox to each other through the drinking water and feed dishes. People need to know this is order to stop the pox from spreading.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chinbunny said:


> yeah I gave them all some prescription metronidazole from a pharmacy. Also vaccinated for e coli, in case that was an underlying problem. the pox showing up is a new problem.
> 
> Some of the sites i read said that pox can look like, and be confused with canker. one hen i treated is finally making a full recovery after the sores inside her mouth came back a second time, after the first treatment. this is a two year old hen who had never had it before. I had a couple babies hatch with it too.


If she came down with canker after being treated, then she wasn't treated long enough. How long did you treat her for the first time? Sometimes canker can take longer to get rid of, and if we stop treatment, then it does come back.
And babies aren't hatched with it, they get it from their parents when being fed. If the adults are stressed then the trich level rises, and you get canker. Even raising babies can cause enough stress for the level of trich in the parent birds to rise and cause canker. They then feed the babies and pass on too many trichs, and the babies come down with canker. So if babies need to be treated, then the parents should also be treated.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Transmission of the avian pox virus can occur in a number of ways. The disease can be spread via mechanical vectors, primarily by species of mosquitoes (at least 10). Transmission occurs when the mosquito feeds on an infected bird that has a viremia (pox virus circulating in the blood) present or on virus-laden secretions from a pox lesion and then feeds on an uninfected bird. Mosquitoes can harbor and transmit the virus for a month or longer after feeding on an infected bird. Experimentally, stable flies have shown the capability of being able to transmit the pox virus.



Avian pox can also be transmitted by direct contact between infected and susceptible birds. The virus is transmitted through abraded or broken skin or the conjunctiva (mucous membrane covering the anterior surface of the eyeball). Indirect transmission of the pox virus can also occur via ingestion when food and water sources, feeders, perches, cages, or clothing are contaminated with virus-containing scabs shed from the lesions of an infected bird. The pox virus is highly resistant to drying and may survive months to years in the dried scabs. Indirect transmission can also occur via inhalation of pox virus infected dander, feather debris and air-borne particles.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00.html


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks Jay for clearing. I checked again the article I have in black and white and it clearly states that pox doesnot spread through communal feeding and drinking and droppings. It is the strains that matters. Here we have different strains thankfully.

If it would be that contagious then think for urself that even a single bird won't be left unaffected. Healthy pigeons will fight it off with their immune systems if they inhale it. Its the vectors that are most responsible for its transmission. Pox mainly transfers through saliva and blood. When we race there are numerous young birds which have it but our birds don't catch it everytime. These internet articles I tell u... I aint saying u're wrong,u're right


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Yes, avian pox can be transmitted by direct contact between infected birds. The pox vaccine even states to isolate all birds that have been inoculated for 8 weeks.*


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> If she came down with canker after being treated, then she wasn't treated long enough. How long did you treat her for the first time. Sometimes canker can take longer to get rid of, and if we stop treatment, then it does come back.
> And babies aren't hatched with it, they get it from their parents when being fed. If the adults are stressed then the trich level rises, and you get canker. Even raising babies can cause enough stress for the level of trich in the parent birds to rise and cause canker. They then feed the babies and pass on too many trichs, and the babies come down with canker. So if babies need to be treated, then the parents should also be treated.


I had a couple of 'small' babies hatch this year, that did not thrive from day one, and developed canker. These were a little smaller then my normal hatches. They were kind of like a runt. They came from birds who I have had for years, who have never ever produced small babies, or given their babies canker. The nest mates of these birds never got it. 

I treated the infected bird for a little over a week. This hen had no contact with the birds mentioned above. Her babies she hatched prior to getting it are very healthy. Which is why im baffled because birds who had no contact with each other, and have never had produced babies who had it, have gotten it. All my birds are separated, and caged by breeding pairs. except for babies.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> Thanks Jay for clearing. I checked again the article I have in black and white and it clearly states that pox doesnot spread through communal feeding and drinking and droppings. It is the strains that matters. Here we have different strains thankfully.
> 
> If it would be that contagious then think for urself that even a single bird won't be left unaffected. Healthy pigeons will fight it off with their immune systems if they inhale it. Its the vectors that are most responsible for its transmission. Pox mainly transfers through saliva and blood. When we race there are numerous young birds which have it but our birds don't catch it everytime. *These internet articles I tell u... I aint saying u're wrong,u're right *





Well if it is Pox, it is a virus, and contagious. 
Now _you_ think for _yourself_...................if it is transferred through saliva, then it most certainly _would _spread through the water they share and the feed they eat together. If your article, in black and white says it cannot spread that way, then your article is incorrect. Where did you get your article from? Because mine comes from a good and reliable source. *The Department of Natural resources of the State of Michigan.* And most do know how contagious it can be.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chinbunny said:


> I had a couple of 'small' babies hatch this year, that did not thrive from day one, and developed canker. These were a little smaller then my normal hatches. They were kind of like a runt. They came from birds who I have had for years, who have never ever produced small babies, or given their babies canker. The nest mates of these birds never got it.
> 
> I treated the infected bird for a little over a week.
> It often takes longer than a week to clear it . How are you sure that it was canker? How are you sure that nothing else was involved?
> ...


................................................................................................


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> Well if it is Pox, it is a virus, and contagious.
> Now you think for yourself...................if it is transferred through saliva, then it most certainly would spread through the water they share and the feed they eat together. If your article, in black and white says it cannot spread that way, then your article is incorrect. Where did you get your article from? Because mine comes from a good and reliable source. The Department of Natural resources of the State of Michigan. And most do know how contagious it can be.


Makes sense... The article that I have agrees to every point you said above except for that one. Naming the article could start a riot cuz its one of the best sellers. Disclaimer does says it based on personal experiences.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> ................................................................................................


She went off her feed, had a 'lump' in the neck, feathers around the neck were puffy, lost alot feathers around the beak, and had a large cheesey/white colored sore on her trachea. Also had a alot of clear mucus in her mouth. Cleared up the first time. she was fine for about a week before it came back again. The metronidazole I used was the good stuff you get from a pharmacy. She's been doing a lot better since I started adding braggs acv, and acid pak 4way to the water twice a week. I also gave her a few terramycin pellets which also seemed to help. vaccinating for salmonella also seemed to help some too.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

& her poop was also watery.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

She also had respiratory problems.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

terramycin crumbles, not pellets lol. Anyhow I think there was more then just canker going on in her case. I do have an update for the dove. The sore is bigger, and scabbier. Will canker sometimes cause sores on the outside of the mouth? I couldn't find anything that says it could. He's still eating and very active.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

One more thing, could the amount of rain we had this year have something to do with this?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chinbunny said:


> terramycin crumbles, not pellets lol. Anyhow I think there was more then just canker going on in her case. I do have an update for the dove. The sore is bigger, and scabbier.* Will canker sometimes cause sores on the outside of the mouth?* I couldn't find anything that says it could. He's still eating and very active.



Yes it can.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chinbunny said:


> She also had respiratory problems.


Yes, it all sounds like canker, but treatment was probably not long enough.
How many mg daily of the Metro did you treat her with?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> Makes sense... The article that I have agrees to every point you said above except for that one. Naming the article could start a riot cuz its one of the best sellers. Disclaimer does says it based on personal experiences.



IF you are going to use an article for reference, then you should be willing to share where you are getting the info. Other than that, it is just your opinion.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This point has been labored long enough.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

chinbunny said:


> Will canker sometimes cause sores on the outside of the mouth?


Canker is caused by flagellates called trichomonae gallinae.They spread through billing,feeding by parents,mating and through shared water. They cannot survive for long in the open environment. So they cannot cause sores outside the pigeon's body. In some cases the sore on the inside of mouth grow so big it don't allow the beak to close completely and pigeons breathe with beak open. All symptoms u described above are of canker. I once had same problem then I had to treat each bird individually with metronidazole. The key is treating all the birds at same time with correct dosage for 10-14 days normally. Canker is easily treatable if found early. And keep changing the water and disinfect the drinkers and loft.

About the rain causing canker, it may happen that the rain would bring drafts to ur loft. Where birds are infected,drafts could help triches to spread as when defecated they can locate the water source using drafts/damp routes in the loft,where they simply wait for the host to come and drink. They are highly motile and infect other birds via shared drinking water


John_D said:


> This point has been labored long enough.


Oops, sorry


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

What sites sells good metronidazole? Im almost completely out. I don't really trust the stuff I buy from seigels or foys, because I bought some amoxicillin form them once and it didn't work. 

The sore on my birds mouth looks exactly like this one. But he has no sores on the inside of his mouth. Unless he has internal canker.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/canker-70150.html


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

John_D said:


> This point has been labored long enough.


yes, lets get back to discussing my ill bird. Both of them have shared great information and have been very helpful. I appreciate it.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

chinbunny said:


> What sites sells good metronidazole? Im almost completely out. I don't really trust the stuff I buy from seigels or foys, because I bought some amoxicillin form them once and it didn't work.
> 
> The sore on my birds mouth looks exactly like this one. But he has no sores on the inside of his mouth. Unless he has internal canker.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/canker-70150.html


Well, as said previously, canker nodules do not grow on the exterior of a pigeon's face. The pics in the thread above would (to me) indicate Pox.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Many of my meds come from Foy's. If that amoxicillin didn't work, it probably wasn't that the meds were bad.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

chinbunny said:


> She went off her feed, had a 'lump' in the neck, feathers around the neck were puffy, lost alot feathers around the beak, and had a large cheesey/white colored sore on her trachea. Also had a alot of clear mucus in her mouth. Cleared up the first time. she was fine for about a week before it came back again. The metronidazole I used was the good stuff you get from a pharmacy. She's been doing a lot better since I started adding braggs acv, and acid pak 4way to the water twice a week. I also gave her a few terramycin pellets which also seemed to help. vaccinating for salmonella also seemed to help some too.


you reffered to the loss of feathers I want to say that pigeon are in moulting season it's natural but they are very stressed and exposed to diseases


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

does this stuff work good? http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/canker-products/2511-avio-nidazole-powder


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You would be better off treating individually with tablets. Is it a flock treatment you are looking for, for the loft? With a tablet, you know they are actually getting the right dose. In the water, you can't be sure.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

chinbunny said:


> I don't really trust the stuff I buy from seigels or foys, because I bought some amoxicillin form them once and it didn't work.


Well, the dosage should be correct and medicine should be given for enough number of days so that after killing the disease causing bacteria medicine should be given for few more days to help the body to build immunity.
Like in case of canker we should treat for 7-10 days to kill the triches and continue to give the med to help the body with immunity.
If the canker has spread in ur loft already and all birds have it then the birds should be treated individually to ensure that every bird has enough med to fight triches. And then prevention be done later or before breeding season.
Canker is most commonest killer and crippler of pigeons/doves. And its simple to treat and shouldn't be overlooked.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> You would be better off treating individually with tablets. Is it a flock treatment you are looking for, for the loft? With a tablet, you know they are actually getting the right dose. In the water, you can't be sure.


Should i go with metronidazole again. Thats the cheapest tablet i see on there


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

What about rondizole 4 in one tablets? Should I get them instead in case the bacteria is immune to metronidazole? http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Metronidozole is good choice for individual treatment. You can get spartrix for alternative treatment so that the triches build no resistance(in case they build). By 4 in 1 tablet, prevention can be done but whil treating individual disease cases specific drugs are more beneficial.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

*Clarifications*

Hi chinbunny, I want to mend things by this post. Just want to paint clear picture of the pox which ur dove has because originally this thread is about pox. Some information couldn't befit in mould of my personal experiences so I had to search.
Pox has three strains worldwide. Pox can be categorised into two sub categories- internal and external. Your dove seem to have internal form in which viruses are inside the body. But viruses show themselves in form of blisters/lesions etc outside the body,use them as breeding grounds. This internal type of pox transmitts through blood sucking ectoparasites like mosquitos,mites,flies etc. It also transmitts by fights and open wounds never through droppings. This type of pox usually runs its course for 4 to 45 days and disappears on its own leaving the victim immune for life. Healthy pigeons can fight it,but young birds with low immunities may die if supportive care and feed is not given to them. Then the pox lesions ripe and scab off on their own. and I was suspecting this type of pox.
Second type of pox is external/avian type of pox which is deadly and highly contagious. It spreads through every possible way. In this type of pox pigeon secrete from nose. This secretion from nose,saliva,blood,scabs,dust everything is capable of infecting other birds.
A bird can have both internal and external type of pox at the same time which proves to be fatal especially for young birds
I need to clarify. Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, I would buy it from Jedds.
http://www.jedds.com/StoreFront.bok
They have Fish Zole 250 mg tablets, which you can quarter to use on an adult bird, and you would have to cut that in half again for a very young bird. But with the Fish Zole, you get a lot more for the price, then the Metronidazole at Foy's. Same med (Metronidazole).
Or the Meditrich, which is a good buy from Jedds. 100 tablets for $16.95. It is 100mg, so you can cut them in half for an adult, and in quarters for a youngster. They are also coated and help to not make the bird vomit. Of course when you cut them they are not completely coated, but they do seem to help.

Spartrix has not worked all that well for me. If I were to get a second med to have to change them out, Ronsec or something would probably be better.
Then they have Avio Trich, at $8.95 for a bottle of 100. It is also 100 mg Metronidazole. You can also cut these in half for an adult, or quarters for a youngster. Also coated. 
Don't go buy the instructions on the bottles. You normally need to treat for canker for about 7 to 10 days. you can start with a whole pill of 100 mg for an adult, for the first dose, then cut back down to the lesser dose for the remainder of the treatment.


Just to add that 4 in 1's don't work for curing anything. They don't have enough of any one drug in them to work. Better to treat with a single drug med.
On occasion, the canker is stubborn, and may need treatment with 2 separate meds, but not normally. For that you can always use 2 different ones at the same time, but not a 3 or 4 in 1.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks jay. next time I get paid, i will order some and treat again.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

& if I buy the stuff from them it will work right?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If it is canker, and if you give the right dose for long enough, it will work. But don't cut the treatment short, or it will come back.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

I won't. I think I know whats causing part of the problem now. another breeder off the site told me they might not be getting enough protein. The protein in my feed is 12%. i read pigeons need somewhere around 16%. i did not know that till now. i might mix the pigeon 50/50 feed with non medicated flock raiser. Or i might mix the flock raiser with scratch grain. Or I can mix in some manna pro game bird, or poultry conditioner.Does that sound like that will help with the illnesses?

edited cause I meant to say part of the problem. I never said its 100% of the problem. Still not funny!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That isn't why they are getting sick.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

chinbunny said:


> I think I know whats causing this problem now. another breeder off the site told me they might not be getting enough protein. The protein in my feed is 12%. i read pigeons need somewhere around 16%


Sorry,but that cracked me up.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

what's so funny about it? 

Some of the sites that I read said improper diet can also lead to canker.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ofcourse proper diet helps the pigeon to stay heathy and maintain the equilibrim with triches in their body. Almost every pigeon have triches in them all the time. But 12% protein u have now, making it to 16% aint the reason, as u think.
If the equilibrium is broken ,whether by racing,breeding,transportation,injury,stress etc even a healthy bird will fall victim and can cause canker to build up.
Timely prevention + proper diet is best bet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's stress or other illness that cause canker, or anything that may weaken the immune system. Not whether your feed contains 12 or 16% protein. They don't really need the higher protein unless they are breeding. Too much is bad for them too.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

This mentions reoccurring canker in squabs fed a low protein diet. http://nicksiders.angelfire.com/nutrition.html


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

5. Recurrent canker in nestlings, despite medical management – low protein levels in the diet and poor balance of nutrients predisposes to disease generally.
Its mostly showing up in my young birds. only two adults have gotten it. The worse of the two seems to be making a full recovery after I started offering her more grit with the feed. We'll see what happens after the diet change next week.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

hers another about nutrition and canker outbreaks. http://birdhealth.com.au/flockbirds/pigeons/racing-pigeons/racing_feeding.html

Also my pigeon feed is made by a company called armada. Some of their animal feeds are good, and others aren't. Its the only pigeon feed I can get in the area that not over $30 a bag.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Your young birds are canker infected because their parents are infected. chinbunny, u may not see the canker in their throats because only 10% of the canker can be seen in the throats and 90% is inside the body. Treating/preventing before breeding is necessary.
If small amounts of canker is given by parents to squabs during feeding then it can help the squabs to build immunity against the triches. If squabs r healthy their bodies can handle small amount of canker. Your pigeons/squabs may have another health issue(s).
But ur parents birds r themselves infected considerably. U better be treating/preventing all at the same time bro.
I'm not ruling out nutrition that a good feedmix provides which helps pigeons to be healthy(I didn't go through links u posted)


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

never said I wouldn't treat. They all have the same symptoms. Any chance you guys can tell me why I have squabs hatch smaller then normal, who develop canker? or could that also be a nutrition issue?


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

from the link posted above. 

Pigeons can survive on grain and grit alone, but they cannot reach the level of health required to withstand the pressures of racing or breeding. Eventually their health will fail under these extreme physical pressures. Good feeding will control most illnesses of pigeons. For example, there is a major increase in the minerals and trace elements required when the adult pigeons are feeding babies, but grit alone does not provide all of the necessary minerals and trace elements for continuing good health. Without mineral additives the end result is often egg laying problems, canker outbreaks and other illnesses. During racing there are increased needs for energy, protein and vitamins, as well as trace elements and minerals. The race team tires easy and is more susceptible to fatigue related respiratory and wet canker illnesses when extra vitamins and minerals are not provided.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

chinbunny said:


> Any chance you guys can tell me why I have squabs hatch smaller then normal, who develop canker?


Canker is a protozoan parasite that eats its victim from within. Triches feed on bloodcells,soft tissues and bacteria. Canker also cause vomitting,sour crop etc. So in wake of all these health hazards squabs are likely to be smaller,they have little immune system to help


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

brocky bieber said:


> Canker is a protozoan parasite that eats its victim from within. Triches feed on bloodcells,soft tissues and bacteria. Canker also cause vomitting,sour crop etc. So in wake of all these health hazards squabs are likely to be smaller,they have little immune system to help


thanks. that helps a lot. I check my babies the same day they hatch. Sometimes right after they are done hatching. that's when I notice if they are really small or not. I have had a couple of teenie tiny ones this year. Those are the ones who seem to develop the canker. While the second baby remains healthy.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Thansk for the advice guys. i found a pet shop in the area that carries powdered metronidazole. When I told him it was for birds, not fish tanks, he seemed to know a little about treating birds for internal parasites. Stuff is $13 a small bottle, its better then paying for shipping and waiting i guess. I'll be supporting a family owned shop with the purchase.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just make sue there aren't any other drugs in it, as sometimes it has a wormer in it, and that one can't be used. I've not used it in powder form for a single bird. That would be more for a flock treatment, but I guess you could figure out the dosage and make a suspension.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

I think he said what he had can be used for birds. I will call and ask if it has wormer before I pick it up.


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