# Help - Feeding ferals getting out of hand?....



## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

I'm not sure what to do....Ok, heres the situation: 

I've been feeding the feral pigees for about 3 years - year round. It has gotten so expensive its either groceries or pigee seeds. I started out with about a dozen but now I'm up to around 70. Its my 'assumption' that the pigees have babies and they start coming to. I make under 20k a year and I'm spending about $50 a week on seeds...Every morning and around 6pm I go outside and fill up a boot tray with sunflower seeds.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE these little guys. They make me so happy and they really seem to love me back. They all know the sound of my car when I come home....as they swirl all around. I'm sure my neighbors don't like them (I live in a small city) as they tend to perch on the four houses around me. Personally, I'm not bothered by the poops... the problem is the money. 

It seems my situation is all or nothing at this point. I have 4 other feeders in my yard (mostly sparrows and chickadees) that I'm tempted to take down for a couple months (they peck around the bottom too). I feel extremely guilty and really sad that it may come to this. 

What will happen to all the babies that never had to forage for food? I don't know if I can walk by the poor hungry things without crying ....Does anyone have any advice? It would be greatly welcomed....


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

You should not go directly to nothing. This would be worse case scenario. Could you wean them off by slowly decreasing the amount you are feeding over time? As you lower the amount of feed the birds will have to look elsewhere to fill their crops.  Up to you how much longer you want to feed them, or if you want to stop feeding at all. Maybe you should try to get back to your original feed bill if you still enjoy feeding but just not the whole flock. First come, first served.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your situation. You really mean well and I thank you for feeding them, but can I ask you.... do they clean up all the seed that you feed them each day?

The reason the flock is growing is that they are getting more then enough seed to feed themselves as well as their babies, can you cut back?

If you can cut back little by little each day-instead of cold turkey-all at once, they will adapt. Pigeons are so good at adapting.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Great minds think alike.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

almondman said:


> Great minds think alike.


  ....yep.....


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks everyone for your quick replies...

Skyeking: YES they eat every speck. After the feeding frenzy they mill around my lawn looking for left-over specks throughout the day until I get home and feed them again. It never seems like they have enough and they pretty much hang out all day..waiting. I bet they would eat 20 lbs a day if I put it out.

I've tried to cut back before but they look at me with their sad hungry pigee eyes and I crumble. People think I'm crazy. I'm the crazy bird lady on the block and everyone knows it. . 

Will cutting back actually work in my situation? Its seems like they'll just keep waiting and starve to death...waiting. Most of them probably don't know how to eat 'naturally' because they've never had to (2 squares for years). All I can do it 'try to cut back' I guess... Sucks to put seeds on my credit card. Again, thanks for your comments and advice!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, cut back slowly...they will adapt.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Chances are you are not their only food source, especially when they might be on young. They just know your schedule and have figured out when to be there for the goodies. Quite literally, a bird in the hand!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You could always cut back on the amount you spend, corn and milo are cheaper than sunflower seeds.
Dave


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi eyedotz,

I feed the wild pigeons too, and its a huge challenge to keep it in hand isn't it?. 

In your case, I think the most important thing right now is to get your seed costs right down. I was paying $35 for a 20kg bag of pigeon seed per week, plus delivery that made it $60. This year, I couldn't afford that (groceries or seed in my case too) , so I did some serious research and came across the local seed mill (I found it via a poultry forum that mentioned it). So now, for exactly the same size bag of pigeon seed, the seed mill charges me only $10! And its a better seed mix too. So dramatically cutting costs gave me some breathing space.

Secondly, when I'm cutting down on feeding, my own flock need a bit of a scare with the broom to get them to look for other food, otherwise they just hang around starving. It also lets them know that something is not right at my place. This seems to get the older birds to go back to other food haunts for a couple of days (schools, train stations), and the younger birds follow them and watch. Pigeons are like crows when it comes to looking for new food sources- they follow other groups of pigeons until finally they find some food. But you have to urge them to leave your place and follow the other birds who know where to eat. I once found my whole flock at the local train station,lol, which is close to where they roost under a bridge.

Anyway, I hope you can find some cheaper food, it will take a huge weight off you. Nothing worse than watching your friends starve, huh?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

eyedotz said:


> It seems my situation is all or nothing at this point. I have 4 other feeders in my yard (mostly sparrows and chickadees) that I'm tempted to take down for a couple months (they peck around the bottom too). I feel extremely guilty and really sad that it may come to this.


I am also not following how it must be 'all or nothing'. ????

There is, of course, a simple solution......feed them less...slowly reduce the number of times you feed and the amount of food available.

You don't even have to get it down to zero or stop. As matter of fact...why in the world would you do that if you have a connection to them, and they to you.

Just start reducing the frequency and amount, slowly. It will take several weeks, perhaps even a couple of months...but you will see that the visitors will thin in numbers, all on their own volition. Pigeons can understand when their lunchbox ain't what it used to be, and they will go to forage elsewhere. And some of the loyaler members will always stick it out.


eyedotz said:


> I've tried to cut back before but they look at me with their sad hungry pigee eyes and I crumble.


Trust me, I know that ! But if you do it gradually, it will not be a shock to them and they will adapt to it. Indeedy, you will have to see them (for a while) inquiring 'hey...is that all we get today ?"....and that's really tough to witness.....but it really won't cause them any harm.

I am assuming you feed in the AM then late afternoon, every day.

First, gently/gradually cut back on the 'serving sizes' you feed them...ver a period of, say, 3 weeks. Then, if that doesn't get you to where you can sustain it yet, you can start omitting some afternoon feedings...maybe over a period of another 2 weeks, get it down to two feedings every other day with one feeding in between...of even to just a single feeding per day. Or 2 smaller feedings per day.....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can understand how it is difficult to keep up the feeding and the cost, but your feeding them so well is what made their numbers increase. It isn't really fair to just leave them hanging with nothing. Just cut back a bit at a time, and try to find some cheaper seeds, like the corn to mix in with it, and as the others have already said, the numbers will thin. Then keep it to a minimum by not feeding all that they need.


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

Hi everyone~ 
You guys really know your pigee stuff! 

Jaye: the quote about all or nothing was me just being frustrated with myself. I would never be able to sleep at night...I really like your last paragraph about a taper, etc. Thats what I'm going to do. I just need to be more strict with myself and portioning the meals. Its so damn hard. 

I just feel like I've been feeding them so long its my responsibility. I need to wean them down without being cruel ('all or nothing'). I suppose now is the time to try becuz its the beginning of summer and they get find food easier. (I would never do this in the winter, poor things). They are such dedicated little sweetpeas. They'll sit up on my garage roof through blizzards and thunderstorms and just watch my house/me. Soggy lil' sponges...I wish I could take them inside and line 'em up on my couch. 

You guys are the best. Thanks for all you words of encouragement! 
Chrystal/So. Portland, Maine


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## SlinkiFox (May 31, 2012)

*Grow your own?*

Have you thought of growing some food plants? Hemp, sunflowers? This would also teach the birds about natural food sources...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

eyedotz said:


> I'm not sure what to do....Ok, heres the situation:
> 
> I've been feeding the feral pigees for about 3 years - year round. It has gotten so expensive its either groceries or pigee seeds. I started out with about a dozen but now I'm up to around 70. Its my 'assumption' that the pigees have babies and they start coming to. I make under 20k a year and I'm spending about $50 a week on seeds...Every morning and around 6pm I go outside and fill up a boot tray with sunflower seeds.
> 
> ...


well if the folks around you don't mind you feeding these birds and you need more money to get seed, I would do a part time job or something..wash cars for you're neighbors for a fee to keep the pigeon poop off them and get money to feed them at the same time. or find a paper route or something simple to make some extra money that suits you're abilities.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

SlinkiFox said:


> Have you thought of growing some food plants? Hemp, sunflowers? This would also teach the birds about natural food sources...


I'm not sure of the law where you live, but growing hemp is not real legal in most states. Hemp = Marijuana
Dave


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

feed them wheat instead of seed. It would more than half your costs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy scratch feed and mix it with the seed. That would make it cheaper.


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

So you go to a feed store and get scratch feed and mix with seeds??!! Thats a great idea! 

I took everyones advice and put the critters on a mini diet. I mixed a 35 lb of wild bird seed and mixed with maybe 10 lbs(have 40 lbs) of sunflower seeds. This one mixing should last 1.5 weeks... which is a 1/4 the price. (The reason I was originally feeding them straight sunflower seeds is because a year ago the stopped eating everything but sunflower seeds. I felt like the millets were a waste of $ and once they got wet they turned gross really fast) Anyway, the mixing thing is going well. I feed them only in the morning and at night around 6pm. I used to cheat and give them some everytime they flew down to the boot tray (I feed them in a boot tray so its cleaner - LOL). I'm being a strict momma. 

I've also noticed that now that they aren't getting many 'feedings' they end up eating every millet. I will def look into scratch feed! That is an awesome idea! Thanks AGAIN!!


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Feeding the pigeons is very addictive, even more so for you than for them, and like every addiction it tends to escalate...and I'm talking from experience. That they've stopped eating everything but sunflower seeds is a sure sign that you're overfeeding them. Sunflower seeds are expensive, but they are also mostly fat and if you are already feeding a wild bird seed mix, that already has sunflower seeds in it as well as other fatty seeds. Eating only or too much sunflower seeds (although they love it), is not good for them or for your wallet. I don't have a feed store in my area or a car to get to one, so I need to improvise with human grade seeds but even I don't spend as much as you. To wild bird seed I add brown rice - I can get 20lb for $10 from the store down the street. I also add all sorts of lentils and peas and peanuts from Asian grocery stores. I just got 2lbs of flaxseed for $4 - which goes a long way.
If you have a feed store that definitely would be the cheapest way to go of course, and you should be able to bring your costs way down. I also give the young birds a little bit of whole wheat bread so that they can learn to eat it, because I noticed that they don't recognize it as food, and let's face it, it's not great for them, but in a city it's an important food source for feral pigeons if they are ever to forage on their own.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. The scratch seed cuts down on your costs. I add other things when I can, like split peas and lentils and some extra sunflower seed. On occasion a handful of my birds safflower and some pigeon mix. I agree with nycpigeonlady, that if they aren't eating it all, then you are over feeding them, and also spoiling them. I know you'll bring out the sunflower seed. I also agree that too much fat (as the sunflower seeds) isn't good for them anyway. My ferals eat what I put out, as they are just happy to be getting fed. They will get used to the wild bird seed mixed with the scratch feed, and will eat it, once they realize that the sunflower bucket is running dry. LOL.


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

I can not believe I didn't find this site sooner. I've been a bird fanatic for years... I have 2 ring-neck doves(12 years old) that live at my parents house. Just knowing them, made me fall in love with all birds...

I know this is a stupid question BUT nycpigeonlady: When you say brown rice you mean uncooked right? I've never thought of feeding them lentils, peas etc. GREAT IDEA!!!! I'll have to post some of my pigees pics so you can see my little loves! I have 2 tan ones that appeared in the past couple days... Is that a normal color for ferals or do you think someones pets escaped? 

Thank you for explaining 'overfeeding'!! You peeps are awesome!
~Chrystal / Maine


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Tan would usually mean yellow or bronze, Mutations like this can occur in the wild but it is rare, Take some pics for sure I would love to see them, I agree with thepigeonkey that you should look at getting some wheat. Pigeons love it and its cheap as, Well here in NZ it is anyway.

I watch the ferals in my city zoom over my place to get to the fields, There is plenty of grain farmers and grain available for ours in the country so they fly from the sea cliffs to the fields everyday, We do not have them landing and foraging in the streets or residential areas hardly at all but I would love to have a flock somewhere I could go and feed, There are a lot of places near me, bridges etc where they live but they do not go on the ground, Its straight into the sky and to the fields where they feel safe.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

eyedotz said:


> I know this is a stupid question BUT nycpigeonlady: When you say brown rice you mean uncooked right? I've never thought of feeding them lentils, peas etc. GREAT IDEA!!!! I'll have to post some of my pigees pics so you can see my little loves! I have 2 tan ones that appeared in the past couple days... Is that a normal color for ferals or do you think someones pets escaped?
> 
> Thank you for explaining 'overfeeding'!! You peeps are awesome!
> ~Chrystal / Maine


It's not a stupid question at all - there are a lot of misconceptions about rice out there and many people believe the pigeons will explode after eating it. Uncooked rice is just fine - it swells as much as any other grain. Feed everything raw, except beans. Peas and lentils are fine (and they love every single variety out there), but raw beans supposedly are toxic to birds, although mung beans are fine raw. There are many things that pigeons love. I usually go with whatever in on sale and and buy in larger amounts to mix with the other stuff. I buy oats, wheat, popcorn, barley, chickpeas, mustard seeds, sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds, anise seeds.... Some of these seeds are very expensive in a regular store, but very cheap in an "ethnic" grocery, so just go with whatever is cheap and available to you in your area. I give pine nuts as treats to my favorite ones, but that's not a good idea when you're trying to save money. 

Another thing that you can do for your pigeons that is free to you, and a great source of calcium for them is to give crushed chicken egg shells. I don't know if you use much eggs, but I save all the eggs shells and heat then in the oven at 250F for 20 min to sterilize them. I then crush them and give separate from the the food. Initially, it took them a while to try them - pigeons, are like that with new things - but now they are very popular especially with the girls and young birds in the summer, with all the egg laying and all the youngsters growing.

I have all sorts of colors in my feral flock, blue bars and blue checks together are actually less than half of the flock and a quarter are white.


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

I posted pics on my album in you guys wanna see my fatties! Notes the 'tan' ones....I also have one that has white spots all over. I call she/he specky. They seem to be adjusting just fine to the feeding changes.... I'm going to a feed store on Sunday and check out chix feed. Thanks for the clarification 'NYC' on the rice. I will def look into the alternatives you mentioned! I don't eat a lot of eggs but when I do I will do as you suggested!

Poor things are so dedicated. They just sit there in rainstorms watching me... They seem to like it when I 'baby talk' with them. They really seem to like me....  Its all I can ask for!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ask about their Scratch seed. Some places have 5 different seeds mixed in, some only 2. The one I have right now has corn with wheat mixed in I think.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

eyedotz said:


> I posted pics on my album in you guys wanna see my fatties!



Lol, I call my birds (and my tree frogs) `the fatties' too 

The tan ones are really lovely, I've never had a colour like that in my wild ferals.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well now if you could find some sort of tub, maybe an old litter box that will hold 2 or 3inches of water, they love to take baths.
Dave


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## eyedotz (Oct 17, 2005)

Oh, they have 3 bird baths they play in!!..... My yard is like pigee heaven. Its totally fenced around the perimeter to keep cats and other predators out. (Not hawks  )...The only things that get in there are squirrels which 'try' to hog seeds. I usually spook them so pigees can eat. I've had hawk attacks before (really sad) but this summers been lucky so far! Fingers crossed! 

I will def check on stratch seed mix! Good to know! I love this site. All you people are as crazy as me! Pigee crazy!


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> Lol, I call my birds (and my tree frogs) `the fatties' too


Me too! I call mine "debeli" - Bulgarian for "fatties" - must be the universal term of endearment.

Your fatties are lovely indeed, and I'm sure will be perfectly fine with their diet.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That's so cool! `Debeli' is a cute word

Its so satisfying seeing a well fed and content animal


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> Its so satisfying seeing a well fed and content animal


I know. I guess because I come from a place where all the animals are really haggard and always hungry, I never thought of "fat" in reference to an animal as anything but desirable and cute....until I came to the US and saw so many overweight and obese pets. But I still like to see all the wild animals becoming "debeli".


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Same here Eva When you see the wild ones always on the verge of starvation, its just nice to see a bit of meat on them.


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