# My new lab setup



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks to my wife and daughter I got all the rest of the stuff for Christmas I needed to finish my little lab setup to test droppings. The camera works great, I have a dog hair under there now showing on the laptop. I got a table and chair, the camera, a loft coat, and the flying vet's pigeon health management book to finish out my setup. Now all I need is some poop.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

Wow thats great, now all you need is to post your address and the poop will come. Lol


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I have a lot of learning to do.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

wow, @@ !! tell me when you ready i have plenty poop to sent you , that is some setup you have there!, congrats !!you going to reach a higher level in pigeon keeping


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Let me know when you know what you're doing, haha. I'd like to get my birds analyzed to see if they have anything I'm not noticing.


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## Greek Boy (Apr 12, 2010)

Gary- I think its great that your taking the initiative to be a complete self efficient fancier.
Once you have learned the proper procedures you will be able to keep your birds in the best of health year round. You couldn't ask for a more supportive family. Best of luck with your new studies with preperations and analysis of pigeon droppings. All the best your friend- Nick..


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

That is VERY COOL. I'm going to feel weird when they ask me what I am sending at the post office and I say pigeon poop.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

The camera is great. I can take pics of what I see and store them in the laptop until my daughter comes home. Than she can help me identify the samples. Until i get better at it. That book is very informative it has lots of pics that i can use to identify the samples. Just reading the book will make you a better fancier.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I have the book but no microscope!  I've considered taking some samples to school and asking the professors if they'd like to do a project in class, LOL


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I have the book but no microscope!  I've considered taking some samples to school and asking the professors if they'd like to do a project in class, LOL


That sounds like a plan.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I did my first fecal float today. Here are the results as i see it looking at the book. The sample looked good formed nice and brown. This is from the old loft that has the hens in there now. If anyone is experienced with this and can give there opinion please do so. Thanks Gary


Starch Granules









Digested plants, air bubbles









Air bubbles, digested plants, unknown. I'm not sure what the thing that is not round is.









Air bubbles









I went back and forth over the whole slide and that is all that was there. There was a lot more air bubbles than what i show.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

I don't know how to interpret those slides but that is very cool "Professor Gary"


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

This is very educational, please continue. Did you buy the microscope with the camera or was it added.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I got the microscope a month or so ago. I waited untill I got the camera for Christmas to start. I will try a fecal smear soon.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

Your setup looks great


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks wingsonfire


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Very nice setup, I would like to get one as well once I have the funds. Keep posting pictures and please include the magnification you are using! I think you are right on your identification so far, those perfectly round things are definitely bubbles. Also, what method to prepare the droppings are you using? If you are doing ova and parasite examination, you can use flotation fluid (saturated salt water/brine solution) to concentrate the worm eggs, they will be easier to find.

Edit: Just saw you did a float, looks good!


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I will, I used flotation on them and used the solution I got at the vets. My sister got me everything at her work i needed. That was just my first time. I'm going to do one on the new loft next weekend when I have more time to post everthing.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> Very nice setup, I would like to get one as well once I have the funds. Keep posting pictures and please include the magnification you are using! I think you are right on your identification so far, those perfectly round things are definitely bubbles. Also, what method to prepare the droppings are you using? If you are doing ova and parasite examination, you can use flotation fluid (saturated salt water/brine solution) to concentrate the worm eggs, they will be easier to find.
> 
> Edit: Just saw you did a float, looks good!


Do you know how to read the exams


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Do you know how to read the exams


I've done human fecal O&P exams, so not exactly the same but not exactly different. Alot of the worms eggs I have seen pictures of in pigeon droppings closely resemble those that can be found in humans. And debris and bubble are universal no matter where the droppings are coming from


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Not to take anything away from your dedication to the project, but the one thing I've learned from a life time of working with livestock is that I am not a Vet. nor a scientist of any degree. I've learned the mechanics of tons of Veterinary procedures but in the end if it comes down to trying to save a few bucks or having success in the treatment of a problem its best to involve a pro. Hope you enjoy your project and have always enjoyed watching your building skills.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

raftree3 said:


> Not to take anything away from your dedication to the project, but the one thing I've learned from a life time of working with livestock is that I am not a Vet. nor a scientist of any degree. I've learned the mechanics of tons of Veterinary procedures but in the end if it comes down to trying to save a few bucks or having success in the treatment of a problem its best to involve a pro. Hope you enjoy your project and have always enjoyed watching your building skills.



I here what your saying, but as I said before, I have a sister that is a small animal vet tech for 25 years and a daughter that is a large animal and small animal vet tech for over 10 years and is now a anesthesiologist at Virginia Tech equine center. I also have a friend that is a avian vet. I think I can get a right diagnosis if I have to. Thats the main reason for the camera, she doesn't come home to often so she can just pull them up on her laptop and check my work. I have no dought that I can be sucsesfull at this with the help i have. If I didn't I would not have spent all the money to do it.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Even without those people, a good book could help you along the way. Its great to be able to do this yourself. Alot of our birds are over medicated, and this is a great way to test often so you can treat/medicate for the actual problem. Medicating for something that isnt there, along with improper dosage hurts all of our birds in the long run.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

The Idea is to not medicate as much and also give me a leg up on the competition at the shows. There are a lot of sick birds at the shows. I bought birds from all the top breeders in our club and all of them were sick. A couple top breeders that I talked to didn't know anything about meds, never used them and didn't care to use them. and then they turned around and said the couldn't figure out why all there birds were dying, but thats OK. I test them and medicate them and they don't even look like the same bird a few months later.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Nice set up. Now you getting very deep. Good luck.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

These are coccidia eggs found in the old loft today. I didn't find any worm eggs. I found coccidia eggs in the breeding loft too. There on sulmet for 5 days.http://i733

[IMG]http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww331/gdsmith4/coccidia.jpg


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

Hi Gary,
I've heard some bad stuff lives in straw. Will you please do a float of straw to see what lies within.
I followed your lead and gave by birds straw for their nest. I boiled it first to kill out mold spores and little beasties.
Wayne


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

OK, I will try, What did you do to dry the straw after you boiled it? The birds are done the meds and probiotics tomorrow. I will do another test to see if there are any coccidia eggs shed now. If I can find any poop thats not frozen.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> *These are coccidia eggs *found in the old loft today. I didn't find any worm eggs. I found coccidia eggs in the breeding loft too. There on sulmet for 5 days.http://i733
> 
> [IMG]http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww331/gdsmith4/coccidia.jpg


Yes they are! WOW, I just saw this thread....nice setup! How much do you charge? lol Have you learned how to do stains yet? You can find bacteria with a 'flame and stain' using immersion oil.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

It's been up in the 50's here. I just set it out in the sun on some welded wire. I'm sure you could just dump into a Colonder and let it dry in the house. The water turned brown with tannic acid. It dried nice and clean. My birds love it.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

A float on hay would probably show you very little , mold and mites are more prone when using hay or straw .


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Yes they are! WOW, I just saw this thread....nice setup! How much do you charge? lol Have you learned how to do stains yet? You can find bacteria with a 'flame and stain' using immersion oil.


Thanks, I only did 3 floats so far am going to do 2 more as soon as the birds meds are done. I have a lot of to learn. I'm going to take it slow so I get it right. I'm trying to get the camera right, I don't think the background should be yellow. It's hard to see things, I have been using just the scope for now and taking photos when I find something. I will have to read up on the stain testing. I do have the oil. You can get a real education from you tube. LOL


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I did my first fecal float today. Here are the results as i see it looking at the book. The sample looked good formed nice and brown. This is from the old loft that has the hens in there now. If anyone is experienced with this and can give there opinion please do so. Thanks Gary
> 
> 
> Starch Granules
> ...


The oval thing looks like a protoza, to me.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Charis said:


> The oval thing looks like a protoza, to me.


It may be, I thought it was a air bubble around some plant matter, making it irregular.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> It may be, I thought it was a air bubble around some plant matter, making it irregular.


That's what it looks like to me. When it's air, it will give a very black looking ring around things.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I have to learn to not get so many air bubbles, If thats possible. I got a gallon of the solution from the vet and the salt or whatever is in it settles to the bottom, I shake it up before i use it maybe I shouldn't.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I did another fecal float today. I found hair worms and round worms. I found 6 hair worm eggs and 1 round worm egg. I have been reading and i used 1 dropping on the last test and I should have gotten several for the test. That's what i did this time. I did find a couple coccidia eggs but no where close to what i saw the on the last test. I think thats ok for them to have some so they build up an immunity to it. 









hair worm eggs










round worm egg









more hair worm eggs

The big round things are air bubbles. Can you pick out the eggs?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

You guys and gals think your birds are healthy, you really don't know till you test the droppings. I thought mine were. This scope is the best money i ever spent. The images look a lot clearer on the scope than they do on the camera its very easy to tell what your looking at if you have the flying vets pigeon health management book. I have been playing with the pic quality, I think i'm getting it better.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Nice set up Shadybug  Something which every fancier would love to have. Just a side note that sometimes or may be most of the times you may not be able to wipe out some strains of bacteria, they are always present and live in a balanced environment. Ailments arise when this colony outgrows the balanced stage. So may be you can go through some medical test write ups or something to establish the need for antibiotic medication. Good luck


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I did another fecal float today. I found hair worms and round worms. I found 6 hair worm eggs and 1 round worm egg. I have been reading and i used 1 dropping on the last test and I should have gotten several for the test. That's what i did this time. I did find a couple coccidia eggs but no where close to what i saw the on the last test. I think thats ok for them to have some so they build up an immunity to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the second picture (roundworm egg), if it's just left of the center....that's not a roundworm egg. Roundworm eggs are round, not oval. I'm having a hard time figuring out what it is, it's really too small.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

This is a single roundworm egg, with 2 hookworm eggs.
http://littlecreekvet.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/roundworm-egg.jpg


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

This is a picture of a round worm egg out of the flying vet book. it doesn't look round to me. The one in the float looked identical to the on in the book. The camera doesn't show them as clear as just looking in the scope.You can't see the inside of the eggs like you can in the scope.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Hook worm from the net. Is a hook worm the same as a spiral worm?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...QYT5bWN-ux0QH5j8y6Cw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAQ&dur=1095


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> Nice set up Shadybug  Something which every fancier would love to have. Just a side note that sometimes or may be most of the times you may not be able to wipe out some strains of bacteria, they are always present and live in a balanced environment. Ailments arise when this colony outgrows the balanced stage. So may be you can go through some medical test write ups or something to establish the need for antibiotic medication. Good luck


I know its the count. Your right I have to learn when the count is to high. I still found coccidia eggs this time but after the meds only a couple on the whole slide before it was over 20 just in my field of view.
The droppings are returning to normal. I'm sure the coccidia went up when I seperated the birds a couple weeks ago. Thanks sreeshs


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Hook worm from the net. Is a hook worm the same as a spiral worm?
> 
> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...QYT5bWN-ux0QH5j8y6Cw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAQ&dur=1095


Your right, they (the photo's you posted) are difficult to make out. 
Your hook worm looks like whip worm to me. Hookworm is usually smooth oval, whip worm is oval with the little 'points' on the ends.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

There is a pics of the hairworms in the flying vet book and they have the points on the ends and the ones i found look exactly like that pic. Are hair worms and whip worms the same or do there eggs look similar. Your hook worm pic looks similar to the round worm pic fron the book. Its going to take a while and I need to google more pics of the different worms, but i'm sure they have worms.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I did some reading and round worm eggs can be round, it depends on how the lay on the slide. The eggs all look similar in the hair worm family. Now i have to see what worms are in that family.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Trichostrongylidae; brown stomach worm; direct ingestion; larvae destroy the gastric glands of cattle and may cause diarrhea and severe weight loss; adults are located in abomasum and small intestine; diagnosis made by fecal floatation; to identify species eggs must be cultured and hatched. 

This is the hair worm family so those eggs could be from any worm in that family according to this.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Great pictures, but if you can do a higher objective that would be even better. If I saw that egg in a human, it looks like Trichuris or whip worms. I'm not familiar with how the parasites of pigeons look under the scope, but the two operculums (points on the end) narrow those down pretty good. For the oval one, you would really need a better picture showing the walls and the components inside the egg. Great job, im looking forward to getting a scope of my own!


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> Great pictures, but if you can do a higher objective that would be even better. If I saw that egg in a human, it looks like Trichuris or whip worms. I'm not familiar with how the parasites of pigeons look under the scope, but the two operculums (points on the end) narrow those down pretty good. For the oval one, you would really need a better picture showing the walls and the components inside the egg. Great job, im looking forward to getting a scope of my own!


You can see all the detail with the scope. I only use the camera to take pic of what i see. The camera is only 3 megapixel the higher ones cost to much. It amazing how much they look exactly like the pics in the book.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> You can see all the detail with the scope. I only use the camera to take pic of what i see. The camera is only 3 megapixel the higher ones cost to much. It amazing how much they look exactly like the pics in the book.


It's difficult to see thru a picture because some of the different eggs look identical. This is also why 'regular' vets don't like to treat birds. I tried to post a link to my reference chart, but I can't. It's a pdf file 
But I did find this link and it shows the similarities of different eggs.......
http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/fecal-float.html

Scroll down to the Whip worm egg(dog), then just after that it shows a Bird Capillaria egg that looks identical. This is why I look at the fecal at work......BUT, then I send it out to the lab. Birds can easily be misdiagnosed.
I once did a fecal on one of my birds and saw (what I thought) toxoplasma ghandi and freaked out! Sent it to the lab and it turned out to be 'coccidia' in a bird. So some eggs look identical, but different depending on the species of animal/bird. Birds are like 'off by themselves' making it very confusing.


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## Kenneth Flippen (Sep 5, 2009)

Just curious how did you decide on which microscope to purchase I've looked for several months and still can't decide me and my wife took a vet assisting class last spring to learn the process of doing fecals 

Kenneth


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

very nice ,my wife has to learn to use the microscope in college in her next class can't weight,we are planing to learn too,by them ill be asking you gary for help so get good at it,lol good luck.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Kenneth Flippen said:


> Just curious how did you decide on which microscope to purchase I've looked for several months and still can't decide me and my wife took a vet assisting class last spring to learn the process of doing fecals
> 
> Kenneth


I ask my sister and daughter. They are vet techs. I decided on this one 



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vet-Doctor-...840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19ccbc2588


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Paragon Loft said:


> very nice ,my wife has to learn to use the microscope in college in her next class can't weight,we are planing to learn too,by them ill be asking you gary for help so get good at it,lol good luck.


OK Thank You


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## 4nursebee (May 27, 2009)

Wow and thank you. I have been considering doing the same. I would get extra use out of it with my honeybees where one can observe a tracheal mite and perhaps other things with them. I've looked and seen some scopes with link to computer that cost about $300.

A question: are you happy with the magnification? Does your reference suggest you ever want higher?

2nd suggestion: On the images you save and post, if you use a computer utility called "paint" you can add text and lines (or draw) to help show what you are referring to on the slide photo. So everyone here has a better idea what you are talking about.

Are you using any stains to help provide depth or clarity?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

No stains yet, Im just learning, I thought about the paint thing and will have to try it. I like the camera hookup to the computer, but other than using it for posting on here I probably wouldn't use it. Everthing is so much clearer without it. I guess if you got one with very high megapixel it would be alright, but would cost more than the scope. Mine is only 3 megapixal.2000 magnification.is all you should ever need and at the higher you have to use the oil. My scope cost 200 and is all you need and its a very nice one and easy to use.


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## Kenneth Flippen (Sep 5, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I ask my sister and daughter. They are vet techs. I decided on this one
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vet-Doctor-...840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19ccbc2588


Thanks anything to look for in a microscope as in what to stay away from or must have?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

If you go with a camera I wish I would have gotten a trinocular one so the camera would have its own port. With the binocular one I have to remove the camera when I want to look through scope. I'm not sure of the price difference. You should have a mechanical stage and x 2000 power and a electrical elluminator.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

With many images and references, this thread can serve as a good reference thread.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I plan to post my findings as I do them.


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## dogging_99 (Apr 21, 2009)

I just got my adapter the other day it works good for the money.
http://cncsupplyinc.com/ Universal Microscope Adapter

I received two pair of breeders along with some hitchhiker's!!
I de-wormed the breeders this weekend I'll be checking them again soon.
here are some images, I used a Panasonic DMC-G2 DSLR and the adapter through an eyepiece.









Round Worm, Hair Worm and Coccidia eggs @ 100x








Round Worm egg @ 400x








Hair Worm egg @ 400x








Coccidia egg @ 400x


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I think your right . Nice images. I'm still working on adjusting mine. Your good at keeping the air bubbles out. I checked your loft pics out, very very nice.


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## dogging_99 (Apr 21, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I think your right . Nice images. I'm still working on adjusting mine. Your good at keeping the air bubbles out. I checked your loft pics out, very very nice.


Thanks for the compliment, I have a wood shop were my loft is located, in my Toy Box!!

To keep air bubbles out, drop one edge of the slide cover onto the sampling canister lip first, then drop the slide cover, the bubbles will roll off as the cover slide falls on to the sample canister.


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## Greek Boy (Apr 12, 2010)

doggin99- I would notify the person you got the breeders from and let them know there is a problem that needs their attention. I too checked out your album and must agree with Shadybug lofts how nice your loft is. Good luck with your new breeders. Nick..


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## dogging_99 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Little Monsters*

Well I would say that the Moxidectin for worms is working, one of the cocks shed a little bloody stool and this little monster!!


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## dogging_99 (Apr 21, 2009)

Round worm Head 40x


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I just wormed mine with moxidectin, once then 12 days later, I haven't had time to recheck the droppings. Nice pics dogging 99 Ugly little critter.


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## 4nursebee (May 27, 2009)

I'd imagine it could be tempting to focus on having birds without bacteria and parasites rather than being healthy.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

when can you start test out people drop? i wanna get one of my hen test.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I just wormed mine with moxidectin, once then 12 days later, I haven't had time to recheck the droppings. Nice pics dogging 99 Ugly little critter.



I've been following your project........just saw this in an article on "2012 Racing Preparation" in a European mailing list I belong to.... 
" Many specialists’ fanciers acquire their own home microscope with which most common pigeons diseases can be identified on a regular basis. This is essential if you do not live near a Veterinarian and time constraints prevents you from doing regular health checks on your pigeons." 
So there's some validation for your effort.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

raftree3 said:


> I've been following your project........just saw this in an article on "2012 Racing Preparation" in a European mailing list I belong to....
> " Many specialists’ fanciers acquire their own home microscope with which most common pigeons diseases can be identified on a regular basis. This is essential if you do not live near a Veterinarian and time constraints prevents you from doing regular health checks on your pigeons."
> So there's some validation for your effort.


Thanks, As I have said in the past I have very close ties to a vet clinic. My daughter and sister work at one only 2 miles from my home. I am friends with all the vets and personal there. I got the scope because I think it is a necessary tool just like any other tool you would acquire to help you keep your birds in good health. It's also necessary to take the steps to learn how to use it. Although I could probably get my dropping checked at the vets. I like the idea of having a droppings test at my fingertips any time i think something is off, even if its a Sunday or Holliday, and don't forget after a short time it will pay for itself. Then there free after that.


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## hotdiggity (Feb 9, 2012)

great thread,thanks


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I did a fecal float today on my breeding loft and am pleased with the results. I didn't find any worm eggs this time after I wormed them last month. I found 3 coccidia eggs in the entire slide and a normal and even amount of bacteria rods and dots.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Another valid reason for having your set up, peace of mind! This is a great thread. Thanks for posting.


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## Greek Boy (Apr 12, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts- your investment will pay for itself and was well worth your time to study what is commonly found in pigeons. Very informative thread. Yours in sport- Nick..


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