# baby pigeon, strange sound when breathing



## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

Hello,

Right now I am a nervous wreck so sorry, I will try to be short and informative.

Pigeon hen hatched alone 2 eggs. Second chick was very small and she did not feed it. I hand fed the baby. I did this at lest 30 times, so I know the drill.

Today is day 11 for the baby. Hen started to feed it sometimes. Last night it filled its crop with seeds, and the baby is not digesting it well. I gave some food as usual, just to add "water" to the crop so that food moves - crop was like dough to the touch.

This morning I check and some food was gone but rest was there. Hen fed the baby again and filled a gain the crop full of seeds. 

So, problem:
- Seeds standing in the crop, or moving very slowly
- baby very active, very hungry, very noisy BUT it makes wet sounds almost like gurgling water when it calls for food. The best I can describe is like you rub 2 rocks together. When it calls softly you can not hear it, but when it gets excited it gets very audible.
- I checked the throat and could not see any liquid going out of the wind pipe or anything in the mouth, however the beak feels a bit too wet after I open it
- I can not see anything going from the nose
- there is also something strange, you know how babies clap their beaks when they feel afraid. They move up and down slowly and clap their beaks. recently I had a feral pigeon run to the babies and the mother started defending them with cooing and ruining towards the pigeon. This baby did the beak claps in fear. Now I can hear it now and then making beak claps in the box. I first taught it was preening cause sometimes babys clap their beaks when they learn how to preen, but when I look in the box the baby claps few times before I call it and then it recognizes me and responds. I don't know was this fear or is clapping also a symptom.
All this I noticed this morning.

I was thinking aspiration pneumonia. I will not go in to details but I am in Montenegro and vets can not help me. 

I have put a bottle of warm water wrapped in cloth near the baby. I am thinking of giving tylosine as soon as the crop empties and I can weigh the baby to know the dose. I was also thinking giving it small amount of food with apple cider vinegar to speed up the crop.

Any advice is welcome. I know what aspiration pneumonia does and I am petrified as wets here can not administer any antibiotic as a vapor or get IV to a bird. 

The older baby is quiet and digests well, the younger baby is calling even now as a speak even thou its crop is full....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't give more food if the crop isn't emptying well. By giving more food, you may have put too much in the crop and some may have come back up and aspirated him. Also, by adding more food to a slow crop, you are putting in more to turn sour, which food does when it stays in the crop too long. Instead of food, a bit of warmed applesauce with a very small amount of water will usually help the crop to move things through better. Feed this instead of food till it is emptying better. But don't stuff him. You can very gently message the crop, but be careful not to push the food up when you do that. Also, the baby could have canker, which can also cause the crop to go slow because it can cause a blockage. Have you checked his throat, way down with a flashlight? 
If the Mom is feeding him and filling him up but the food isn't passing through, then you will have to remove him and keep him warm and try the warmed applesauce, without over filling him. Be careful not to aspirate him. 
You may need Metronidazole for canker, which is good to have on hand anyway.


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

My first taught was canker so I looked down the throat, not only this baby but the other also, and all is clear.

I looked again just now, way down, and nothing, nice and pink. I also checked the mom. to cut the story short mom is a house pet and can not fly, she was a rescue. She was cleaned of all internal and external parasites and has her own food and water bowl and does not mix with feral pigeons in a way she can get sick...

Anyway I have 2 things. One is the baby started to bread very labored with wet sounds like liquid rising from the throat.... 

Also we don't have appleasuce here in Montenegro. Is it baby food with apple? here in MNE it is quite sweet, is that normal and can I give that to the baby pigeon? If not can I make apple sauce and how?


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

Is this Ok for a recipe, just skip sugar?

To make basic applesauce, peel, core and coarsely chop 2 pounds (900 g) of apples. Combine apples, 2 Tbsp. water and 2 tsp. lemon juice in saucepan; cover. Cook on low heat 10 to 15 min. or until apples are very soft, stirring occasionally. Add sugar to taste (1 Tbsp. to ¼ cup)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It can still be canker and not show in the throat. They don't have to be near other birds to get canker. They can come down with canker from stress, and the parents pass it on to the babies. How is it that the hen hatched eggs alone? That could be stressful enough to sit eggs and try to raise 2 babies without a mate. Not how it's usually done, and would be very stressful for the hen. Baby applesauce is baby food apples, but without all the sugar in regular applesauce. Yes, you can make it without the sugar. In case it is yeast slowing the crop, you don't really want to add more sugar, which yeast likes.
Just be careful in giving it to him that he isn't filled up too much so that it doesn't come back up.


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

So it is canker. I saw canker in the hens throat. I gave her the medication right away.

But what to do with the babies? Can I leave the hen to feed them now?
Babies are 13 and 12 days, and I have Rony-plus tabs that are for adult pigeons. I am afraid I might give them too much. Tablet contains 10 mg Ronidazole and 10 mg Amprollium. One baby ia almost 100g and other I must weigh. I saw on forum it is 12.5mg/kg but some tablets have more, so I guess I can give 1/4, a bit less for the 100g baby. 100g baby is the small one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I like Metronidazole. With what you have, you are treating for both canker and cocci. Unnecessary to treat them for something they don't have. You want them to build an immunity to different things, so treating when they don't need it isn't great. Better to have a single drug for each thing. I can't even tell you how much of that to give. With Metro, it would be half the dose of the adult. If you underdose, you are just helping the trich to build up an immunity to the drug. I also remove the babies and hand feed so they aren't getting extra meds when the parents feed them. Don't know how young you can give Amprollium to babies. In any case, at least treat the parents late at night when they won't be feeding the babies.


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