# I candled two eggs



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Following the advice of others on this forum, I candled two eggs. They were laid last Wednesday and Friday by one of our Birmingham Roller hens. When I set them in the beam of my flashlight, one of them seemed opaque...darker in color and light didn't shine through it well. The other one "lit up" and almost glowed in a yellowish color (yolk color?) The flashlight is a 3 watt LED Mag-lite, so it puts out a pretty strong beam.

The cock and hen have been incubating both of these eggs since Friday. When I pulled them from under the hen, they were both quite warm to the touch - almost hot. Does this sound normal, or should they both look the same. If one is bad, which one would it be?

Thanks


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

They both should look the same. At 5-6 days of setting you should see the vains forming. The dark one may be older than you think
You are learning about moving eggs-and candleing-Is this the pair you removed the homer egg? maybe you removed the wrong egg?
If the dark one is good---the parents may not have formed milk to feed it.
Pigeon Temps run about 104-107 so they will feel hot 
Maybe keep candling them for another week or so.
Keep us informed

Other comments PLEASE as ptras does not like most of my answers


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> They both should look the same. At 5-6 days of setting you should see the vains forming. The dark one may be older than you think
> You are learning about moving eggs-and candleing-Is this the pair you removed the homer egg? maybe you removed the wrong egg?
> If the dark one is good---the parents may not have formed milk to feed it.
> Pigeon Temps run about 104-107 so they will feel hot
> ...


This is the pair that I removed the egg from. I had removed the larger of the three eggs assuming it was the homer egg. Since I must have removed the wrong egg, I'm going to remove another egg so I don't have two eggs that are hatching at separate times. I'm assuming that the darker egg is the more mature egg, therefore is the homer egg? It seems as if that is the one I should remove. If it is the homer egg, the oldest it could possibly be is twelve days, as the homers laid one on the 3rd and one on the 5th.

Do you agree with me? I like your answers just fine, as long as you are answering questions about pigeons.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

ptras--stay with them--learn from your First Hand experience. Then you can give younger flyers "GOOD" answers that you know is correct. What to do--what NOT to do.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

At 12 days old, yes it would be dark already. Just making sure that you candled them correctly, because it wasn't so clear in your post. the flashlight should have been shining back towards you, in other words, light then egg then your face. Thats why I just use the sun, take it outside hold it up to the sun, it works best for me. At 5 days old or so you should see some veins and such starting to run through the egg. Also, as it sounds like you have learned, birds will lay eggs of different sizes, not always safe to assume that the largest egg belongs to the largest bird.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> At 12 days old, yes it would be dark already. Just making sure that you candled them correctly, because it wasn't so clear in your post. the flashlight should have been shining back towards you, in other words, light then egg then your face. Thats why I just use the sun, take it outside hold it up to the sun, it works best for me. At 5 days old or so you should see some veins and such starting to run through the egg. Also, as it sounds like you have learned, birds will lay eggs of different sizes, not always safe to assume that the largest egg belongs to the largest bird.


I stood the flashlight on its tail, rested the eggs on the lens and looked down from on top. If the darker egg is the older, I will get rid of it. I keep reading about seeing veins at 5+ days. The second egg was laid either July 7th or July 9th. It was incubated starting July 9th. I didn't see any veins in that egg. It just appeared to glow a yellowish color as if the light was shining through an egg yolk.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

May be a bit soon yet for it, try it again in 2 days and see if it has changed any.


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

Wait what? Homer egg? I'm lost. Weren't these rollers?
Why do you want to get rid of the older egg if it's the good one?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Long story short, he got a pair of homers that had already laid an egg, the homer egg somehow got under the pair of rollers so he was going to let them try to raise all 3. The homer egg is at least 4 days older than the rollers eggs, so he removed one egg thinking it was the homer egg, apparently the incorrect egg was removed. So now he has a 12 day old homer egg and about a 5-7 day old roller egg under the same pair. Bad situation.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

That is not going to work...someone is going to have to hand raise the older baby, if it hatches..or toss the poor embryo/egg......ugh. and I thought these birds were ny flights...not that it matters... just is so confusing.

you should find a rehabber in your area and call on them to get ready so they can hand feed the hatchling esp if you are a novice.

I think you just need to use fake eggs untill you know more about the breeds you have and the ones you want, have only pairs in the breeding section with true mates, healthy, clear of worms, and plenty of calcium offerd and a calm breeding area... then perhaps try to let your pairs have young... what is the hurry anyway right...


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Pawbla--Stay with the program--you have to read ever word ever day.
We don't really know what he has done-and he does not know either.-but if the older egg hatches -the parents may not have formed milk to feed it
BUT just remember I'm just an OLD "DUMB" 74 year old man-and only raced pigeons 31 years. So there is no way I know more than a 17 year old.
SO Pawbla --what is your advice-answer????????????? what would you do ??????? Speak up - I may learn something helpful. Learn what I have been doing wrong all these years.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Pawbla--Stay with the program--you have to read ever word ever day.
> We don't really know what he has done-and he does not know either.-but if the older egg hatches -the parents may not have formed milk to feed it
> BUT just remember I'm just an OLD "DUMB" 74 year old man-and only raced pigeons 31 years. So there is no way I know more than a 17 year old.
> SO Pawbla --what is your advice-answer????????????? what would you do ??????? Speak up - I may learn something helpful. Learn what I have been doing wrong all these years.


Sky Tex - There you go again!

Maybe being ornery comes with old age? Posting replies such as this in no way contribute to this forum or to the pigeon raising experience! And, although you may not know what I have done, I know what I have done every step of the way. It just seems that you don't agree with what I've done, so you automatically assume that I am wrong.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Sky Tex - There you go again!
> 
> Maybe being ornery comes with old age? Posting replies such as this in no way contribute to this forum or to the pigeon raising experience! And, although you may not know what I have done, I know what I have done every step of the way. It just seems that you don't agree with what I've done, so you automatically assume that I am wrong.


he was posting to pawbla, not you.. not sure why.... sometimes it is best just to not make the issue go further, or just pm people. IMO. your not going to make a difference lecturing a 70 something year old...I Think it is too late..LOL.. I could be wrong though..just do not waste too much red frown energy on someone else.. now that is my two cents for the day and will not remark on this any longer... If you want help with the birds, keep on track with that...


personally I would tell him to call 1-800-whaaaa. LOL..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> he was posting to pawbla, not you.. not sure why.... sometimes it is best just to not make the issue go further, or just pm people. IMO. your not going to make a difference lecturing a 70 something year old...I Think it is too late..LOL.. I could be wrong though..just do not waste too much red frown energy on someone else.. now that is my two cents for the day and will not remark on this any longer... If you want help with the birds, keep on track with that...
> 
> 
> personally I would tell him to call 1-800-whaaaa. LOL..


Spirit Wings - thanks for reminding me  But you say he was posting to pawbla - I say he was posting to me.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Ptras--I'm sure you will keep us informed on how things go for you. I know I'm waiting to see what happens with your eggs and squabs.
I'm NOT saying your are Wrong--Just maybe made a mistake? And "wow' I have made 100's .
I sure want to know what Pawbla has to say. Why would he keep the good egg? and not the other 2?
You and I both know all 3 eggs may hatch--but will the parents be able to tak care of them or if you are going to have to hand feed them?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Ptras--I'm sure you will keep us informed on how things go for you. I know I'm waiting to see what happens with your eggs and squabs.
> I'm NOT saying your are Wrong--Just maybe made a mistake? And "wow' I have made 100's .
> I sure want to know what Pawbla has to say. Why would he keep the good egg? and not the other 2?
> You and I both know all 3 eggs may hatch--but will the parents be able to tak care of them or if you are going to have to hand feed them?


I already tossed one egg so three eggs cannot hatch. The original intent of this post was "Should I toss another one?" which I have determined is the correct thing to do. Now, I'm trying to decide which of the two eggs to toss. The logical course is to toss the older one. I just questioned if the dark egg is the older one, which other members have answered for me.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Spirit Wings- My comments keeps this site Active.
I called 1-800-whaaaa and got a recorded answer.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Spirit Wings- My comments keeps this site Active.
> I called 1-800-whaaaa and got a recorded answer.


OMG! Sky Tex actually has a sense of humor!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

And here's another question related to this topic...Can I mark eggs to indicate which was laid first, or which were laid by which hen? If so, what should I use - Sharpie? paint? crayon?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> And here's another question related to this topic...Can I mark eggs to indicate which was laid first, or which were laid by which hen? If so, what should I use - Sharpie? paint? crayon?


you can use a sharpie or a pencil, I sometimes will put an X with pencil.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Spirit Wings- My comments keeps this site Active.
> I called 1-800-whaaaa and got a recorded answer.


...LOLOLOLOL...


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

use a Sharpie--put a number--of the day of the month?-or maybe dots?- an X?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> you can use a sharpie or a pencil, I sometimes will put an X with pencil.


Years ago (in high school) we marked chicken eggs to identify them when we were hatching them in a biology class. We used those wax pencil type thingies that you can get in various colors at your local Home Depot. I suppose I can just use different colors of Sharpie.


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

Ptras, Hi. I just want to say I hope every thing goes well with your birds. BUT I do not think you should go around disrespecting people the way you are. I don't know the full situation between you two, but I do know that Sky Tx has always been helpful to me, and I don't think he would steer you wrong. On that note, I don't think anyone on this site would deliberately do anything to mess you up with your pijies. From what I've seen, Sky is extremely knowledgeable and helpful on the subject of pigeons.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks crap Shrapnel--I hate to admit it BUT - the wife is better than I am- a very good handler and flyer. 
Maybe her best year--6 club wins and 1 combine win.
And ptras has made a NOTE that he will "JUDGE" me when he is 74 y/o--Right ptras?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crab_Shrapnel said:


> Ptras, Hi. I just want to say I hope every thing goes well with your birds. BUT I do not think you should go around disrespecting people the way you are. I don't know the full situation between you two, but I do know that Sky Tx has always been helpful to me, and I don't think he would steer you wrong. On that note, I don't think anyone on this site would deliberately do anything to mess you up with your pijies. From what I've seen, Sky is extremely knowledgeable and helpful on the subject of pigeons.


I don't question at all Mr. Tex's knowledge on pigeons, or his helpfulness to me, among other members of this forum. The problems I have had with him since I came on this forum are with the way he treats/speaks to other people. If you go back and look at all the interactions between me and Mr. Tex, you'll see that I have *NEVER *questioned his knowledge or accused him of steering me or anyone else wrong. However, you can find at least a few incidences where *HE *questioned my actions or decisions. And again, it doesn't bother me when he tells me that I did something wrong, as I recognize that he has a few more years' experience than I do. It does bother me the way he says it _"We don't really know what he has done-and he does not know either." _as he posted earlier in this thread. See... he automatically assumes that anyone who doesn't do it his way is stupid.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Thanks crap Shrapnel--I hate to admit it BUT - the wife is better than I am- a very good handler and flyer.
> Maybe her best year--6 club wins and 1 combine win.
> And ptras has made a NOTE that he will "JUDGE" me when he is 74 y/o--Right ptras?


I'll be happy to judge you when I'm 74. How old will that make you...97? But you're gonna have to come to the northeast. I am *NOT *traveling to Texas!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

ptras-My job was a " trouble shooter" worked on the Boiler safety Vaves [POP OFF valves] at Power Plants. I have traveled to all 50 of the USA states-all accross Canada-and mexico.I can show records that I have flown 1 million 800 thousand miles. I still have over 300,000 miles on Delta for Free tickets. If I was younger and not tired of airplanes I would be glad to visit you.-And look at some "REAL" pigeons.


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

ptras said:


> I'll be happy to judge you when I'm 74. How old will that make you...97? But you're gonna have to come to the northeast. I am *NOT *traveling to Texas!


Why not? What's wrong with Texas? Texas is awesome!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

He can not Stand The Heat--today only 101.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Ptras, not real sure why you want to mark the eggs. The hen will lay 2 eggs most of the time, sometimes 1 sometimes 3, but 95% of the time 2. You will have the hen and cock on the nest so you know the pair. You can mark on the calender what day the first egg was laid for the pair, thus knowing when it will hatch, which is 18 days later. As for the babies, one will be larger than the other for the 1st 7-10 days or so, after which you should be able to tell them apart anyway by band number and then later on by physical appearance and attitude. I always would keep a breeding card for each pair in the file cabinet with all the lay dates, hatch dates and baby band numbers in order to keep track of the birds. I would keep them filed away until the end of the race season in order to not show favortism towards one pairs babies as I'm sure you will figure out you can develop favorites. After the season I would use the breeding records and race records in conjunction to decide which birds to keep and which birds no longer had a spot in my loft as breeders, or maybe if I needed to switch pairings up to try something different.

The thing about marking eggs, and then marking the small babies is that both the egg shell and their delicate skin can be permeable, you go marking it with a sharpie/paint/etc its very possible that those chemicals will be absorbed into their system and more than likely will be detrimental to them. Again, this is just the way that I do it, but I have had no problems with this system.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> He can not Stand The Heat--today only 101.


I'm from New England. We can stand any weather that anyone else in the country can stand. In fact, we probably will by the end of the week!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Candled Eggs*



ptras said:


> Following the advice of others on this forum, I candled two eggs. They were laid last Wednesday and Friday by one of our Birmingham Roller hens. When I set them in the beam of my flashlight, one of them seemed opaque...darker in color and light didn't shine through it well. The other one "lit up" and almost glowed in a yellowish color (yolk color?) The flashlight is a 3 watt LED Mag-lite, so it puts out a pretty strong beam.
> 
> The cock and hen have been incubating both of these eggs since Friday. When I pulled them from under the hen, they were both quite warm to the touch - almost hot. Does this sound normal, or should they both look the same. If one is bad, which one would it be?
> 
> Thanks


Okay...I candled the eggs again, and the dark one appears to be a little darker than it was. The yellow one still looks exactly the same - kind of a yellowish glow with the light behind it (no veins showing). Since that egg doesn't appear to be developing at all, I assume that it must be unfertilized. Either that or the egg wasn't incubated in time which could make it the homer/flight egg.

Do you all (or y'all for Sky Tx) agree that the "yellow" egg should be removed, or should I just leave it and let nature take its course?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Okay...I candled the eggs again, and the dark one appears to be a little darker than it was. The yellow one still looks exactly the same - kind of a yellowish glow with the light behind it (no veins showing). Since that egg doesn't appear to be developing at all, I assume that it must be unfertilized. Either that or the egg wasn't incubated in time which could make it the homer/flight egg.
> 
> Do you all (or y'all for Sky Tx) agree that the "yellow" egg should be removed, or should I just leave it and let nature take its course?


you can remove it and put a fake in it's place, so when the other egg hatches it will have something to lean on.. you can take the fake one out when you band the baby.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I would remove it and replace it with a dummy egg. In another 5-6 months you are going to have squabs popping out like popcorn.
cock tops the hen--an egg the 9 & 11 day---18 days after the second egg 2 squabs. when the squabs are about 28-35 days old it will be 2 more eggs in the nest.And it starts again.
When the squabs are 5-6 months old they will start mating and laying.---More squabs on the way.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> I would remove it and replace it with a dummy egg. In another 5-6 months you are going to have squabs popping out like popcorn.
> cock tops the hen--an egg the 9 & 11 day---18 days after the second egg 2 squabs. when the squabs are about 28-35 days old it will be 2 more eggs in the nest.And it starts again.
> When the squabs are 5-6 months old they will start mating and laying.---More squabs on the way.


Which one would you remove? Or would you remove both?

I understand fully what the breeding situation is likely to be in the future, but right now I have a pair of birds sitting on two eggs, and a seven year old girl and nine year old boy waiting anxiously for baby pigeons. I have already informed them that one egg definitely will not hatch, but they have already named the other. Try telling a seven and nine year old not to count their eggs before they hatch!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

With the 7 & 9 year old waiting for a baby pigeon--I'd leave both eggs and hope for the best. You may lose one-and one not hatch-but you and them tried. Also you and them have learn a not so happy lesson.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> I would remove it and replace it with a dummy egg. In another 5-6 months you are going to have squabs popping out like popcorn.
> cock tops the hen--an egg the 9 & 11 day---18 days after the second egg 2 squabs. when the squabs are about 28-35 days old it will be 2 more eggs in the nest.And it starts again.
> When the squabs are 5-6 months old they will start mating and laying.---More squabs on the way.


I have a dummy egg, but I think it is way too big. I'm going to have to order some from a supplier. The one I have came from a farm supply place, but I think it must be a pheasant size - smaller than a chicken egg but larger than a pigeon egg. Anyone have a couple bands I could have? I'm thinkin I will probly have a small pigeon pretty soon.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crab_Shrapnel said:


> Why not? What's wrong with Texas? Texas is awesome!


Texas is awesome...for *you*!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I have a dummy egg, but I think it is way too big. I'm going to have to order some from a supplier. The one I have came from a farm supply place, but I think it must be a pheasant size - smaller than a chicken egg but larger than a pigeon egg. Anyone have a couple bands I could have? I'm thinkin I will probly have a small pigeon pretty soon.


what size band do you need?


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

ptras said:


> Texas is awesome...for *you*!


Well, under that premise, I can see why you like New England


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> what size band do you need?


I'm told that rollers need 7mm bands. I'm going to order some from NE Pigeon Supply along with some substitute eggs.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I'm told that rollers need 7mm bands. I'm going to order some from NE Pigeon Supply along with some substitute eggs.


oh ok, I have a few or those, but sounds like you got it coverd.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> oh ok, I have a few or those, but sounds like you got it coverd.


Thanks. I think that I am likely going to need more than a couple bands in 2010, so I'm going to break down and buy some. Before you know it, it will be time to order 2011 bands!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Thanks. I think that I am likely going to need more than a couple bands in 2010, so I'm going to break down and buy some. Before you know it, it will be time to order 2011 bands!


I know!, that was what I was thinking.. Im done for this year.. I like to breed in eary spring, still good to have a few spares though for those oops babies.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Status*

In case anyone was wondering, neither of the eggs hatched, and the hen eventually kicked them out of the nest. Here we are a couple of weeks later, and this pair has laid two more eggs. Also, our other pair laid two eggs on the same days that the first pair did. Those eggs are now three, four and five days old. We have removed the other birds from this coop.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> In case anyone was wondering, neither of the eggs hatched, and the hen eventually kicked them out of the nest. Here we are a couple of weeks later, and this pair has laid two more eggs. Also, our other pair laid two eggs on the same days that the first pair did. Those eggs are now three, four and five days old. We have removed the other birds from this coop.


If your wanting hatchlings then hope all goes well.. never had any pairs kick unhatched eggs out of the nest, not sure why they would do that..not that it is important or anything..just sounds weird to me, but pigeons can be unpredictable at times. never seen it happen here at my place.


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