# Out and about, Bird proofing the home



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

I've gotten conflicting input re: allowing a pigeon to fly in the house. (I wish I could remember whether one of them was from Terry.)

I read that they need two hours a day of flying exercise. Elsewhere it said that's too dangerous they have to be confined, unless their wings are clipped. 

Advice?
Brownieluv


----------



## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Flytime*

My pigeons get there time in an outdoor flight area. so I need others to come along with ideas on house flytime.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

With flying indoors, the dangers that present themselves are things they can fly into, like ceiling fans, smells that are toxic, (teflon pans on the stove, hot stove) etc. An empty room to fly in away from the kitchen or any other household dangers would be best.

Here is a link on birdproofing your home.

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/birdproofing.htm


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Brownieluv said:


> I've gotten conflicting input re: allowing a pigeon to fly in the house. (I wish I could remember whether one of them was from Terry.)
> 
> I read that they need two hours a day of flying exercise. Elsewhere it said that's too dangerous they have to be confined, unless their wings are clipped.
> 
> ...


Unless a pigeon is flightless, they do need some flying time.
If they will be 'free flying' within the house, one should take into consideration, pigeons are susceptible to a variety of 'scents', e.g., household cleaners, perfumes, fumes from a fireplace, etc. Ceiling fans must remain off, stove tops must be cool, doors going outside *must* remain closed. 

Droppings are another consideration, especially if there is a mated pair. When my pigeons are sitting on their 'fake' eggs, their droppings can be, I'm sorry to say this folks, down right disgusting.  A flight suit wouldn't even help.  There's no way they would be free flying in my house. If there is only one pigeon who has nice, neat, little 'poops' that's one thing. 

These are just 'thoughts to ponder'.  
There are many members who allow their pigeons to free fly about the house & I'm sure will be along to share their experiences.

Cindy


----------



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Unless a pigeon is flightless, they do need some flying time.
> If they will be 'free flying' within the house, one should take into consideration, pigeons are susceptible to a variety of 'scents', e.g., household cleaners, perfumes, fumes from a fireplace, etc. Ceiling fans must remain off, stove tops must be cool, doors going outside *must* remain closed.
> 
> Droppings are another consideration, especially if there is a mated pair. When my pigeons are sitting on their 'fake' eggs, their droppings can be, I'm sorry to say this folks, down right disgusting.  A flight suit wouldn't even help.  There's no way they would be free flying in my house. If there is only one pigeon who has nice, neat, little 'poops' that's one thing.
> ...


Thanks Cindy. I'm already saying that a lot! Everything was fine here until you mentioned pigeon droppings. Darn! I now remember that we had a lot! from a brief few hours from the fearless three in the house.

Were you kidding about the "flight suit?" Is there something like a chimpanzee diaper for birds? I'd love to see Brownie fly again.


----------



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> With flying indoors, the dangers that present themselves are things they can fly into, like ceiling fans, smells that are toxic, (teflon pans on the stove, hot stove) etc. An empty room to fly in away from the kitchen or any other household dangers would be best.
> 
> Here is a link on birdproofing your home.
> 
> http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/birdproofing.htm


I already not only read but printed your link. Thanks


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Yes, Indeed,*

there are Flight Suits for pigeons! I changed my Avatar to show Mr. Squeaks in his suit. They work just great. I had a time getting one for him because the size recommended for pigeons ended up being FIVE sizes too small. Being a racing (retired due to wing injury) homing pigeon, he's a big boy.

Here is their web site: *www.flightquarters.com *and toll free phone number: *888-412-7667*.

I was fortunate to have a bird place down the street where I could keep getting a bigger size until I found one that worked!

Squeaks doesn't like wearing his suit but it sure comes in handy when I don't want to pick up poops!


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Pigeon pitfalls in a house*

I don't mind repeating this, since I've had several scares (one two days ago).

From a pigeons point of view:

1) Are there any "HOLES" in your place?
2) Are there any "CANYONS" or "BLIND ALLEYS" in your place?

Any confined area that a pigeon can access but not be able to secure egress from can be dangerous. A place from which they would have to fly vertically to escape, or in which there is insufficient breadth for their wingspan.

Examples: 
1) Our Pidgiepoo was so energetically chasing a recuperating pigeon visitor from his territory that he fell into a wheeled shopping bag, and would have had no way to get out on his own. He was so surprised that he was (figuratively) speechless. 
2) Several times our pigeons fell (with a bit of a thump) when they stepped off the wardrobe and dropped in the space between the wardrobe and window. We have limited space for furniture placement, and have softened the potential "drop zones" or landing places where possible. If we leave home for a bit we always ascertain where our (solitary) pigeon is, first thing when we arrive. 
I've noticed and always been a bit amazed at watching our pigeons wander around ledges and casually and thoughtlessly step off into air, then recuperate with a simple wing flap or two. In a "canyon" or restricted space they continue on their way down. They don't even act embarrassed afterwards, or convey to you somehow that finally they have learned their lesson. It's as if they are (not) thinking, "Hey, maybe I'll do this again tomorrow, or maybe not." 
3) Toilets. I'd hate to drown or die of hypothermia while trying to flap my wings in a toillet. 
4) Same goes for cooking pots, wiith or without boiling water. Open buckets of paint. Places such as attics or old enclosed bathtubs with fiberglass ("angelhair") insulation. 
And the list goes on, but others have covered this territory pretty well.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Mirrors are another risk. You simply have to be fully aware where your bird is all the time. I have read on other forums where people have accidently killed their pet birds, not necessarily pigeons, in dryers or washing machines, or even piles of laundry (birds like to burrow down in clothes and you can step on them). Birds are naturally curious and if they see something they haven't noticed before will usually check it out.

A few years ago we were rehabbing a barn swallow with a broken wing. I let it out to exercise on the floor a few times a day," knowing" it couldn't fly. Well, one afternoon it was out and took off, about 2 feet off the floor, down a long hallway, turned right in the master bedroom, took another right into the bath and fell in the commode. Fortunately, I was right on his tail and scooped him out before he drowned. From that point on, all commodes in the house were closed when he was let out. 

Maggie


----------



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> there are Flight Suits for pigeons! I changed my Avatar to show Mr. Squeaks in his suit. They work just great. I had a time getting one for him because the size recommended for pigeons ended up being FIVE sizes too small. Being a racing (retired due to wing injury) homing pigeon, he's a big boy.
> 
> Here is their web site: *www.flightquarters.com *and toll free phone number: *888-412-7667*.
> 
> ...


***************************************
Thank you for changing your avatar and the great information. I'm thrilled such a thing actually exists! Your baby must be really large!

I'll have to look for a bird place rather than the internet just in case.

I really want Brownie to fly again, but there was a surprisingly large amount of poop the last time we did that!


----------



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Thanks to all*

Thank you to everyone on this thread for all the great information, as usual. Watch out, I may come to expect this!


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi there Brownieluv,

Just noticed this thread for the first time and it is pretty interesting to me. I have had to change my life upside down to accomodate my free-flying indoor birds. There are so many hazards that you just never ever consider until you have a bird in your place.

I live in an apartment building and have one of the door-closers on my front door and noticed Buddy perching on it one day so I took a closer look. Sure enough, had he been on it when I opened the door it would have severed his toes. Yikes! I removed that problem right away. No more door closer!

Then, I was keeping seed in one of those tall plastic waste reeptacles. It was getting low and Buddy just jumped right in. Thank goodness I was there. He could not get out and was flapping wildly in his attempt to escape. Now I keep the seeds locked away in a closet and I have new garbage cans. The kinds with the lid that lifts up when you step on it.

The last scare, and it came right out of the blue too. I had a prescription a while back. Anyway, I was taking my meds and dropped the pill. You can already guess who pounced to check it out. I got to it first but that panicked me. It was just too close a call. I started thinking about all the things that might land on the floor that Buddy could peck at that might be hazards or might unsettle him. Everything from household powders or liquid cleaners to spices, medications, wood or metal shavings etc, even peppercorns. If it is down there he will find it eventually and might get into trouble. My solution is regular vacuuming, like twice a week now and boy do I have a neat house. Who would of thought I would EVER vacuum twice a week but I do now!

So I started looking at everything. First with the toilet. Lid has to be down at all times or it's a deathtrap for a bird looking to have a bath. Next to the furniture. Every piece is now either so close to the wall he cannot slip between it and the wall or far enough away that he can walk around it. I have one mirrored dresser that could not be moved that he loved to perch on but it had a bird-width-space between the wall and the glass. For that I just built the top into a perch so that space is no longer available to slip behind.

Forget about putting up paper posters and maps unless you use tape because they will all be coming down one by one with the risk of injury to your bird. Buddy tried my map right off and tore it on his first try. I just can't see how he imagined it could be a perch being as it was so thin but he had other ideas. When it comes to framed wall pictures, these also end up getting used as perches. As a deterrant I just attached a piece of cardboard at the top on a 45 degree angle so it is impossible to sit on. Otherwise those pics will get pooped on which is not a happy situation if you like your art.

On the topic of poops I have done a good job of solving this by giving Buddy a couple of perches he loves. I have always wanted to pass this idea on to anyone else who has a free-flying indoor bird because it works so well. I provide a plastic olive tree, which I now know is actually called a "Ficus". It is about 6 feet tall and has a big planter at the bottom. I place it next to the window. On the top, I have attached a piece of flat wood about a foot long and four inches wide. It took a little fooling around to secure the wood in place but what a difference it makes. That is where he spends his time roosting, sleeping and preening......and POOPING!. And the poops just drop right into the pot at the base. My house is a lot cleaner as a result. I would guess 90% of the problem dissapeared overnight so it is a very happy story for me.

The trick I have found is: don't have any other possible roost higher or that is where your bird will gravitate too. Make the tree the highest spot in the house and never bother your bird when they are up there. It becomes theyr'e safe zone and there is a big payoff for you in clean-up. Now, if I really need to catch Buddy, I just shake the food can and catch him when he comes close and that way his perch remains his hands-off happy zone.

When it comes to hot foods like coffee and bowls of soup, well, I just can't leave these unnattended. Buddy is just too curious and has attempted to stick his beak in my coffee even while I was holding it once. You do have to be a little guarded as birds are so curious and have no idea the trouble they could be headed for. The kitchen is another risky area. I just make mine a no-fly zone to avoid problems. If you don't have a door, just hang some of those funky bead-strings everyone had in the sixties. It is a good flight deterrant. If you don't recall the sixties there are lots of us who still do (sort of) and might even know where to buy them. 

Personally I am not in favor of clipping wings to limit flight but that is just me. I love to see my bird flapping around the rooms doing his air-obics so I just do what I can to allow him as much freedom as possible and keeping my home clean at the same time. It really hasn't been a problem so far. I picked up a few throw blankets at a second hand store to keep the couch and other spots from getting soiled. Usually all they need is to be shaken out and periodically washed but it's no big deal. A couple other spots where he likes to land are perpetually paper covered. All I ever need for this is the flyers that come in the mail everday. I don't clip coupons anyway!

The other thing you have to expect with indoor birds is that you will lose things from time to time with all the wind gusts caused by the wing flapping. I lost my keys early on and hunted for them for hours. Turns out Buddy had knocked them off the counter into the waste bin. That was for sure the last place I ever thought of looking for my keys. I was late for work that day but learned my lesson.

Hopefully this is helpful even if it is a month and a half late but I just saw this thread today and could not resist answering you.

Cameron


----------



## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Wow very good ideas, thanks Cameron! Experience is the key.

Suz.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Bravo, Cameron!!*

OUTSTANDING, EXCELLENT!!

Who would have 'thunk' about all that stuff! NOTHING like full flight bird in the house experience!

I'm sure there will be MANY who will take heed and had not even thought of the things you brought up!

MANY GRATEFUL PIJIES (and other pet birds too) may owe their life to your suggestions!

It's easy to sit and think about dangers and many things are pretty obvious (turn off ceiling fan, close toilet lid...) but it's the NON-obvious that can get 'cha!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Cameron,

The information you present is excellent, and can only come from a person who is experienced with having a pet pigeon.

mr. squeaks is right, you thought of things many do not think of. I have never had a house pigeon that lives inside 100% of the time, so this is a real  eye opener.

I'm going to flag this thread for future use.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cameron, that was a great post. Really thoughtful. We don't have any inside pigeons except Mr. Humphries and Otis and we don't let them out in the house because they have 5-6 hours flying time each day in the aviary. But, when we get in babies or fledglings that are too young at first to fly we do keep them in the house. As they are learning to fly they pretty much stay confined to the kitchen and their main hangout is a really big basket that we keep on top of the fridge. They all gravitate to it and either sit on the handle or get in the basket that is filled with raffia. They peep over the top - so cute.

As they get a little braver, they will sometimes fly into the family room next to the kitchen and land on the ceiling fan. For that reason we have totally shut the fan off to prevent accidently turning it on. I have also had several fly into the laundry room adjacent to the kitchen and fall between the wall and dryer. This has happened more with songbirds when we rehabbed them but pigeons too. It is really scary when they do that because they could break a wing going down. So, now we always close the laundry room door. Another danger area is behind the fridge. Luckily, we have not had one fall there but I have heard of it happening.

You need to even be careful if you have water in the kitchen sink for dishes - even with the dishes in there. The sink has been like a magnet to some of ours. We have had ours try to land on the hood vent which is sloped, the light fixture over the kitchen table, a wall clock, pictures, etc. You really need to use those heavy duty lag (I don't know if that is the right word) bolt things to hang pictures or clocks on. We have a neat ship's clock in the kitchen that they got on once before we got the bolts in the wall and they knocked it to the floor. It was so heavy it could easily have killed the pigeon had he not flown away from it.

I guess the thing that scares me the most is them getting into something like the dryer or washer and getting hurt. So I try very hard to keep tabs on any that are out.

Geez, I sure got wound up.


----------



## Mistifire (May 27, 2004)

A few things to add, 

The hallogen lamps that have the long pole and the top is open and up high can and will burn anything it touches. They get very hot and I lost some balloons to one and realised the danger.

My pigeon found a cup with about an inch of water in it sitting on my computer tower, and she grabed it with her feet tring to land there and the water spilled onto the new computer monitor next to the tower....BIZZZIT! the monitor would not turn on again after that. lol

Ill see if I can think of anything else.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Excellent post Cameron.
Maybe we can make a sticky for easy future reference.

Reti


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks All, Poulette, Treesa, Shi, Maggie, Mistifire and Reti.

You're all making me blush. You sure made my day too!

Reti,
If you want to use my post in any way to make a sticky that would really be a great honor for me. Feel free to add, edit, delete or change it any way you like. If the information serves to save someone the heartache of losing a bird to a household accident then a really good thing has been accomplished here. Let me know, I am looking forward to hearing any other ideas people have about house-proofing for birds.

Cameron


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Have been thinking about pijies who do NOT fly...will put thoughts on line when I get more organized...


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Cameron, what an excellent post!! I especially appreciate your mention of the ficus tree - build it and they will come.  The secret to successful pigeon keeping seems to be to find a way to meld their preferences with yours. Well done - thanks for taking the time to write that all out!


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I missed this one too Cameron. I am glad you bumped it up for more exposure. 

Winter time...cold, snowy days were really the only days I would allow free flight, indoors for any extended time, til outdoor play time was allowed from Spring to late fall, but then there are those darn predators...especially the flying variety. 

Now that I have changed my thinking 100% and will never allow outdoor free flight time, I have to be very careful . 

Birdproofing a room is our responsibility for their safety.An indoor or outdoor flying avery is the most advantagous I believe. I will be glad when I get my outdoor one built. It is worth the time and investment.But for now, mine will be monitored closely in the living room. or "his" bedroom.


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks Terri,

You know if anyone had suggested I keep indoor free-flying pigeons three months back I would have said they were crazy. These birds are so endearing and happy too. Now this is their home so they just stake out their territory and go back to being the pigeons that they were born to be. I have released Windy now, (today) to interact with Buddy and I feel a bit like I am living in a zoo but it's a happy zoo. They seem quite good together.

We really are all melding together. My job now is to keep it safe and healthy for all of us. Indoor birds without cages is a whole new world. You have to bite your tongue once in a while when you get the odd "gift" in a place you don't want it but those times seem few and far between once you start to think like a bird and work with them instead of fighting their nature. I'm loving it.

Cameron


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Cameron, you are RAPIDLY becoming a pigeon GURU!

Since this has happened within a VERY short period of time, you are truly gifted! The world needs more "pigeon gurus!" 

Many thanks for all you insights!


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks Shi,

I jumped to read your post because I was waiting to see what you would say about protecting and living with flight-less indoor birds. There are a lot of things to consider. First off though, the risk of getting stepped on. I actually wondered about bird-bells, like cats have but can't really imagine how to attach one. If Mr Squeaks is like Buddy he follows you from room to room like a little dog. Do you have ramps set up? Can Mr Squeaks get a view of outdoors from the ground? Does he bed down on the floor or do you lift him up at night to a perch?....So many questions and more.

Waiting to hear. 

Cameron


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Thanks Shi,
> 
> I jumped to read your post because I was waiting to see what you would say about protecting and living with flight-less indoor birds. There are a lot of things to consider. First off though, the risk of getting stepped on. I actually wondered about bird-bells, like cats have but can't really imagine how to attach one. If Mr Squeaks is like Buddy he follows you from room to room like a little dog. Do you have ramps set up? Can Mr Squeaks get a view of outdoors from the ground? Does he bed down on the floor or do you lift him up at night to a perch?....So many questions and more.
> 
> ...


...and just when I was getting ready to go to bed...well, I did write a few notes and I'm sure there are more.
You are correct, getting stepped on or tripped over are REAL concerns! Squeaks does follow me around and I just have to be careful! My apartment has an open living/dining/kitchen area. I cannot close off the kitchen so he follows me in there. 

-Opening the refrig and watching to see he doesn't stick his head in the door!  
-Making sure things cooking on the stove don't spill on him. Usually, if I'm going to quite "occupied" in the kitchen area, I will put him home safe. 
-I also don't allow anyone to come in and spray around the baseboards because of BOTH cats and bird.
-making sure he can't walk into and get "caught" between the wall and my entertainment center, appliances, etc.
-getting closed in a closet
-eating stuff he finds on the floor that is not good for pijies and that includes my balcony. I feed birds and he could easily pick up a nasty.
- making sure a hawk doesn't come and grab him on the balcony. I have never seen a hawk near my balcony but have seen Ravens nearby.
-making sure he gets sun. Lots of light but he has to be on the balcony for direct sun.

I don't like the idea of a bell for a cat or bird (I sure wouldn't to listen to incessant "ringing" all the time!). 
Actually, I HAVE thought of a ramp. Would probably have to have one made - haven't seen any but also haven't investigated much either. Something light-weight that wouldn't break my back to move. I have a senior cat who would ALSO appreciate a ramp at times!

Squeaks has a wire cage that is 29" L x 21" W x 23" H and sits about 17" off the floor and next to a wall on one side. Inside, part of the cage has a refrig grate that is half covered. There is also a tree branch across one back corner. He has plenty of room to flap his wings. At night, the top and two sides are covered with a tablecloth with a hand towel clothespinned across half the front door. His home is next to my bed and there is a South window at the back of his home and the balcony windows to the East. LOTS of light. When I'm home, he's usually out and if he wants water, he drinks out of the cat dishes or I tilt my drinking glass.

That's about all I can think of for the time being. If anyone else has a "grounded" pigeon, please jump in with comments.


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Shi,

I have been so distracted tonight I havn't answered your post till now. My mind is all over the place at times. Sorry about keeping you up late last night but I had to start asking questions. I could not sleep anyway. Was up till 3 or 4 am for some reason. I cracked up over your mention of Mr Squeaks drinking from the cat bowls. Guess I can just imagine it and I wonder how the cats would react. So many cats, I would worry about my birds being with them but you probably keep a close eye on the action. Good intuition about cats and their intentions is sure important and could avert any possible calamity.

I have been thinking about how a ramp would work for you and where you might place it. Pigeons being as they are like to have company and get to eye level or higher is possible. Buddy loves to get a leg lift if he can. He will just walk right up to me and climb on my foot while I watch TV or type at the computer. I gently lift him into the air on the end of my foot and lifting and lowering my leg he gets to practice a wing dance number he knows best. He never tires of this lift, lower, flutter game. It's pretty amusing to me too.

So....a ramp. Hmmm. I would bet Mr Squeaks would like to be able to at least get as high as say the coffee table that I assume you must have next to your living room chair like we all do. That's a good spot from which he could socialize with you on a one to one basis. As long as he knows he has the freedom to come and go I would imagine he would love it. Accessibility is a whole new world for anyone who is disabled. You mentioned you would like something easy to move around. Pigeons, as they weigh so little would not need much of a ramp, weight wise. It should have some sort of surface that they can get a grip on. Bare wood would likely be too slippery for his feet. Something with say, a rubber or textured surface that is not too steep would be great and if it only went as high as a coffee table would not be heavy or impractical for you to handle to handle. How about a length of two by four with some carpet stapled on to one side for traction. As long as it is shorter than 8 feet you could easily stand it against a wall when not in use and it weighs so little. 

For Mr Squeaks, being a ground based indoor pigeon there really is a world of trouble he could get in to. You mentioned some things I had not considered like getting closed into closets by accident, getting his head closed in the fridge door or getting splashed by cooking activity etc. I really started to feel so grateful that my birds are flighted after reading your post. While they are difficult sometimes to get hold of due to having wings and all at least I don't have to worry about them getting stepped on or lost amongst the furniture. Flighted birds don't actually spend much time on the ground except to eat in my experience. The rest of the time they fly from perch to perch doing their level best to avoid me and keep their independance. My best trick for catching them is to herd them into the bathroom where they perch on the shower rod. Then I turn out the lights.

They know I am going to catch them as soon as the lights go out and they really are completely in the dark at that point so catching them is easy. Funny how they know what I am up to but still keep going to the same place over and over again and calmly offering no resistance when caught. If it wasn't for the bathroom shower rod they would never be within easy reach. Anyway this is just a new development since the two of them fell in love. When Buddy was a lone bird he was always on my shoulder or foot and constantly trying to get my attention. Now with a girlfriend on the other hand I just became a nobody (until feeding time that is). It would really hurt if I wasn't so happy for him to have found a mate.

You are fortunate too I think that you don't have to worry about many of the things Maggie mentioned in her post. Like flighted birds falling behind appliances or landing on overhead fans. Yikes, I don't have an overhead fan and never even gave that any thought but I can see there is a real danger in them. When I move I will have to take that into account for sure. A fan would be a bird killer no doubt.

Maggie also mentioned the dangers of a sink full of dishwater and that is something I noticed once too. Buddy seemed fascinated by the bubbles and had no concept of the danger of the heat and soaps I am sure. You just can't leave hot soapy water sources unattended. But again, for Mr Squeaks this is not a problem as he would have no access to counters from his vantage point on the ground. I imagine he would love to have the freedom to climb up to where you are and sit on your lap or knee for for some one on one attention. Except the cats will probably get really jealous then if you do build that ramp for him!

I don't know if I would worry too much about hawks bothering Mr Squeaks on the balcony. From what I have seen of hawks they like to get their dinner while it is in flight or caught out in an open area. Balconies, it seems to me are not a good bet for a hawk because of the railings etc and other flight hazards. On the other hand a grounded pidgie might seem an easy meal to ravens or crows. Best to keep an eye on th little devil.

Well it's off to bed for me. I broke a tooth tonight on a fruit pit and I am in a cranky mood. I love to hear the adventures of Mr squeaks though so keep me posted. He's a lucky bird to have you for a mom.

Cameron


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

There is a lot of good information on this thread. I hope others will continue to add more helpful ideas.

Being stepped on, to me, is the greatest danger to any grounded bird. I can relate to Shi's concerns about Mr. Squeaks because I have stepped on a bird and were it not for God's intervention, he would have died.

I have mentioned a barn swallow that we rehabbed (severe wing break) for several months. ( This is the same little guy I have written about that scooted down the hall and wound up in the commode.) In the mornings I would put "Daisy" on the floor while I changed all the birds' cages. Normally, she stayed in one spot but on that particular morning, just as I stepped back, I felt something under my foot. Now, I don't weigh but about 98 lbs., but my full weight went down on Daisy. I was so devastated. I just knew I had killed her. She was still living but you could tell she was badly hurt. I just sat down with her in my hands and cried and prayed for a long time. Her back actually had a dip in it that took about 3-4 weeks to straighten out. For about 4 days after I stepped on her you could tell she hurt whenever she moved. She didn't eat very much that first day but was back to eating pretty good on the 2nd day and went on to make a full recovery. 

From then on, during the time we kept her, we put her in a secure location with a cardboard barrier up to keep her more confined. I would even put signs up on the back door (the area where she was confined was right at the door) so, if my husband was outside, he would know to use another door.

Yes, it was an accident but a preventable one on my part, but I learned a lesson. I only hate that my negligence caused her even temporary discomfort.

Maggie


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Oh my God Maggie,

That is such an upsetting thing that happened to you and your bird. I would have been devastated if it had happened to me too. Have you ever posted on it before? Do you still have that bird? I have had the same fear about accidentally stepping on one of my birds too. Thank God these two are nimble enough to avoid me but I have noticed at times they do get underfoot. Especially Buddy who likes to follow me from room to room always looking for a little treat or handout. He is so innocent of worldly dangers unlike Windy who has been around the block a bit more.

I didn't mention in my earlier posts that I had gotten rid of my rocking chair for just the reason you mentioned. The risk of a crushing injury seemed just too obvious as Buddy tended to sit near my feet while I was watching TV and would be pecking at things around the rocker. I now have a glider-rocker which is much safer and as it turns out is a better chair for me too.

I also don't use my ventian blinds anymore either as one time Buddy, who wanted to look outside apparently, managed to go right through them and onto the window ledge. I didn't mind much that he wrecked the aluminum blinds in the process but the possibility of him injuring himself there caused me to rethink what I had so now I just have regular curtains. Indoor birds can be expense when it comes to redecorating that's for sure.

There are other things too that I don't do anymore. Like cleaning the stove or washing windows. After all I have read about birds sensitivity to household chemicals I am very wary. I may be acting a little paranoid but I feel better safe than sorry. The birds will just have to put up with my cooking in the meantime. And I will put up with streaky windows and a dirty stove. Don't think there is anything toxic in my cooking anyway and I don't own pots with Teflon. I am a good cook to boot. They should feel lucky to be around for one of my meals! Mmmmm! 

I also hope others will post about safety for indoor birds. Phil I think has a few indoor pets and a lot of ideas I bet. Hopefully he will weigh in. There is no such thing as too much advice when it comes to protecting our babies. 

Cameron


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Forgot to mention...*

that living in a house compared to an apartment is a whole different ball game. Because I live in a relatively small (600 sq ft) l bdrm, I know where Mr. Squeaks is most of the time. If I don't see him, I'll say his name and he will usually make some type of sound or come strolling in from the bedroom, where he was, no doubt, looking for a cat to chase.  

In a house, unless doors are closed, a pigeon could be anywhere unless, they happen to have favorite spots. 

Good thinking about the rocker, Cameron. Rockers are addictive tho, so I'm glad you got a glider type. Those are great. When I had a rocker, that was the first place people sat when they came to visit!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Camrron said:


> There are other things too that I don't do anymore. Like cleaning the stove or washing windows. After all I have read about birds sensitivity to household chemicals I am very wary. I may be acting a little paranoid but I feel better safe than sorry. The birds will just have to put up with my cooking in the meantime. And I will put up with streaky windows and a dirty stove.
> Cameron



 That is the best reason (excuse) I can think of for not cleaning. LOL...seriously though, I think it is wonderful how attentive you are to your birds safety.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cameron, I am just as paranoid as you are about cleaning materials. You could use vinegar to clean your windows. I don't think that would hurt them. 

We had to keep the little swallow a few months longer than normal because of my stepping on her but she did just fine.

I have to be careful too about leaving kitchen cabinets even partially open. They will fly up on the top of the cabinet door and if you're not careful you can close the door on their feet. Same thing with refrigerator doors. Honestly, you have to be so aware and if you're caring for several at the same time it can be a challange.

Keep the suggestions coming in.

Maggie


----------



## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Accidents can be so tragic... 4 years ago, I had a baby ringneck dove with splay legs. He was not flying much, and often on the ground. My 12 year old boy never saw the dove and you know what happened. His heart was broken for weeks, he was feeling so guilty about it. He is a very sensitive boy and this accident hurt him very much. Now we ALL in the house take better care of looking on the ground, at the top of the doors, the ceiling fans, the chairs etc... It is sad it has to happen once to make us act REALLY carefully, especially children.

Suz.


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> That is the best reason (excuse) I can think of for not cleaning. LOL...seriously though, I think it is wonderful how attentive you are to your birds safety.


It is pretty good isn't it. Whenever I don't feel like being tidy now, I can just say it's for the birds. Homework assignments late....the birds. Dirty Windows, the birds. Slept in late again......of course! It's all for the birds. Am I a good guy or what, I put them before work, school and housecleaning too.

Cameron


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

nabisho said:


> He got his head through one of the squares and then got his neck over to the next square where he got his beak stuck on the wire of the next square and couldn't open his mouth far enough to get his beak loose. I walled off the squares with carboard so there is no chance of anything like this happening again. Check your cages if there's any wire used that is big enough for them to get theri heads through it could be dangerous especially if they are inclined to peck at their neighbor in the next nest or cage.
> 
> Here's a plush toy rendition of the accident.
> 
> NAB



*Nab,

This post is a real eye opener and I hope you don't mind if we transfer it to the "Out and About" thread, in regards to pigeon proofing the home. I'm glad Gee2 is doing well and recooperating after this incident.
Thanks
*


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Camrron said:


> ...Pigeons, as they weigh so little would not need much of a ramp, weight wise. It should have some sort of surface that they can get a grip on. Bare wood would likely be too slippery for his feet. Something with say, a rubber or textured surface that is not too steep would be great and if it only went as high as a coffee table would not be heavy or impractical for you to handle to handle. How about a length of two by four with some carpet stapled on to one side for traction...
> Cameron


That open-weave rubbery material used to line kitched cabinets would provide good traction and may be easier to clean than carpet.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I think that rubber material would be great. The only thing I wonder about is his claws catching in the material...maybe not. Anyone have experience with this material and pigeons walking on it???


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Maggie,

You mentioned this the other day and you are not going to believe who actually jumped into the dishwater while I was washing up tonight. Suds and all. Thankfully it wasn't hot. Buddy has been on tear since he got a girlfriend and the hand-attack thing now extends even to hands that are underwater. If he had Scuba tanks there would be no peace in the house. 

Anyway it called for a little bath to clean him off. No harm fortunately. 

Speaking of hazards, since they are nest building now I climbed up the shelf to see what they had put in the nest. I found a hundred Peso note. It had been stuck to my fridge with a magnet for months just in case I ever went to Mexico. I have no idea how they even got it down but there it was. I never even got a fair exchange so I took it back. Birds are crazy!

I really liked the idea about the kitchen cabinet material Terri. You could just hose it down from time to time and it would be dry in a few minutes. It's definately a better idea than using carpet. Also less of a dust problem.

Cameron


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Maggie,
> 
> You mentioned this the other day and you are not going to believe who actually jumped into the dishwater while I was washing up tonight. Suds and all. Thankfully it wasn't hot. Buddy has been on tear since he got a girlfriend and the hand-attack thing now extends even to hands that are underwater. If he had Scuba tanks there would be no peace in the house.
> 
> ...


Yes, but will their CLAWS get stuck???


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

mr squeaks said:


> Yes, but will their CLAWS get stuck???



They don't. I am using those for over a year now, since Yong had the fabulous idea. It helps my Angel a lot. She has splayed legs and a very tough time walking and standing on any smooth surface. Well on those she can stand, walk and be a normal pigeon.
They are easy to wipe clean and once every few days I just throw them in the washer.

Reti


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I use them now too for Mr. Humphries since Reti mentioned it. There seems to be no danger of them getting their claws stuck. I also put a very tightly woven cloth on top in some areas of his bed to give him different kinds of traction.

Cameron, that is so funny about the dishwater. They will sail in it in a heartbeat. I have even gone so far as putting a large pan that I use for cookie baking on top of the pan to keep them out.

A few days ago another "peril" came to my attention. My husband was in the fridge and a whole head of cauliflower fell out onto the floor. My first thought was gladness that none of the birds was underneath. Probably would have killed them.

Stoves worry me a lot. We just recently replaced a coil type range for one with a glass top. I've noticed the glass burners and surrounding area stay hot a lot longer than the coils did so I have to be very careful about that.

Maggie


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Many thanks guys for the rubber material input!

Maggie, don't those ranges have some type of cover you could use??? I can see where that type of range would be a problem! GREAT ranges for NON-flying bird homes!


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Shi, don't know, but I need to find something particularly with baby season coming. All the babies usually get on top of the range eventually no matter how hard you try to keep them off.

Maggie


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi there Maggie,

When you mentioned the stove-top I just cringed thinking of all the problems some poor bird might get into innocently never knowing the dangers and permanent damage that could result. You seem to have a knack for knowing what my worst fears are.

Anyway, I don't blame you for your worry. It was actually my biggest concern too and was the main reason I closed my kitchen to all air traffic 

Before I stopped the birds from coming in the kitchen though I came up with my best solutions to safe cooking. First, I would never leave an open top pot of food cooking. I always put a lid on and the lid had to be safely supported, say with a wooden spoon or what have you in case a wayward bird (Buddy) tried landing on the edge. Round lids not fitted snuggly will readily tip inward into a hot pot if a bird lands on their top. 

Yikes! Pigeon stew! 

The other thing I was doing, and this relates to hot elements, is that after cooking I would immediately fill a big frying pan with cold water and put it onto the hot element. This accomplished two goals for me. First, it cooled the stove top right away and second, there was never enough heat left in the element to even warm up the cold water. Problem solved. At least as far as risk was concerned. I also tried some behavior modification on Buddy, both carrot and stick but nothing dramatic of course. (I'm not that tough you probably already figured out, a bit soft really). Anyway, no luck, he just refused to acknowledge that I ddin't want him in the kitchen. In fact my problem got worse. Perhaps he enjoyed the game. Finally I just went with a no pigeons in the kitchen policy and now there are less worries for me about burnt feet and feathers. (And guilt too of course) 

I have never had a glass top stove though. I have seen them and it seems the whole stove surface can be too hot. I will have to think more on that one. Not sure how you can bird-proof it totally. Perhaps with a big water-filled cookie tray, I don't really know. That seems like a real pain to me however water really does disipate heat quickly.

BTW, Cauliflower on the noggin just might hurt a lot. Brocolli and canteloupe too. You never can be too carefull with fruits and veggies tumbling out onto your friends. 

For myself, I do like to sleep good at night, so I keep the risks to a minimum if I can think of them before the birds show me the errors of my ways. And hopefully no pigeon stew nightmares for this guy thank you very much!

Talk to you soon,

Cameron


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

This thread just keeps getting better and better!

Thanks for all the additional information you all!


----------



## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Shi, don't know, but I need to find something particularly with baby season coming. All the babies usually get on top of the range eventually no matter how hard you try to keep them off.
> 
> Maggie


Would it be possible to buy a length of thick, quilted material (say the thickness of a potholder) at a store like Ragg Shop or A.C. Moore and and fashion a stove top sized "pot holder?"

Don't know how well this would work, but I'm figuring it might be an attractive to way to prevent a severe burn and as a bonus, a "cover up" when there are more important things to do than clean the stovetop...such as hanging out at Pigeon Talk! LOL

Linda


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Maggie, if you have an "open" kitchen, you will have to find a way to solve your range problem. If not, can you just close the door like Cameron does?

From what I'm reading of flying pijies, I have to admit that Squeaks would be in DEEP DOO DOO if he could fly in my apartment! It's really FULL of dangerous stuff plus my kitchen is "open!"

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about things that are meant to be! Squeaks is just perfect for the situation I have AND, for the most part, so are my cats!


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi all

Linda, the quilted top sounds like it would work and it would be pretty too!

Shi, our kitchen is open and it is the main pigeon "rearing" area. If we are lucky we can have 8-10 at any given time and keeping up with the little rascals can be a little difficult. I'm attaching a couple of pics to show some of them on the counter where we kinda keep them "herded" after feeding. Had to crop the first one so much it cut off some of them. The range is just to the left. In the second pic it shows others around the sink.

maggie


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Mmmm, how are you able to prepare a meal with all the "help?!" LOL  

Too bad you can't get a more pigeon friendly range (IF there IS such a thing) OR "enclose' the stove so the pijies can't get on it...Sure would be a pain...WAIT, I KNOW: let the pijies have your kitchen and cook somewhere else! Maybe a grill on the patio?


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I love those pictures Maggie.

Birds in their natural environment  . The pigeons all around the sink sort of reminds me of Alfred Hitchcocks "The Birds" though. Who knows what they are up to when they start gossiping around the water cooler Eh!

I don't know about the reactions you get but anyone I ever tell that I have free-flight indoor birds thinks I am just plain crazy. I can well imagine my place being just like yours soon if I do decide to let my birds raise up some chicks. The nest building is continueing at my house. Buddy has learned to pull the threads from the edge of my carpet for extra materials and has started collecting up his own fallen feathers for the nest. These two are adorable! They really are.

Treesa, I like the new thread title. It works.

Cameron


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great pic, Maggie.
They look like they belong there. Did they learn how to cook yet, how about doing the dishes? 

Reti


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks, all of our rescues occupy different spaces depending on the weather and their condition. In winter they usually stay in the dining room (in cages) and in warm weather they stay in the garage (in cages) until they are weaned and can fly. The sick ones usually stay in the 
laundry room or kitchen (in cages) so we can keep a close eye on them. None of them are "free flyers" in the house except for the several times a day we take them out to feed them and let them play around with each other. They rarely venture farther than the kitchen or laundry room, but they try out every surface imaginable in those rooms.

Once they start flapping their wings we let them fly around the kitchen - they usually learn to head for the fridge and get in the basket on top. After they are weaned and can fly well they go into the aviary to learn things from the big boys and girlsbefore they are released. Depending on their age when we get them in this can be several weeks because we still have to make sure they are disease free before they go in the aviaries.

We use lots of newpaper, paper towels and disinfectant in our house but I am always surprised at how little mess they make.

Maggie


----------



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Brownie's got a flight suit.*

Hey Mr. Squeaks. Your information led to my purchase of a flight suit & "kotex" and Brownie is happily flying around 2-3 hours a day. 

Thanks so much for the info and picture. They were an inspiration.



mr squeaks said:


> there are Flight Suits for pigeons! I changed my Avatar to show Mr. Squeaks in his suit. They work just great. I had a time getting one for him because the size recommended for pigeons ended up being FIVE sizes too small. Being a racing (retired due to wing injury) homing pigeon, he's a big boy.
> 
> Here is their web site: *www.flightquarters.com *and toll free phone number: *888-412-7667*.
> 
> ...


----------

