# New Pair!! What Color??



## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

*What color/pattern are these two?* I am not sure who is a male or female yet (I suspect that the "big nose" is a male and the "small nose" is a female)

*Why is the neck feathers golden/shiny??*

*NOTE: These pictures below is the same bird!!*


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

*NOTE: These pictures below is the same bird!!*


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

They seem to be brown check. I suspect big nose is male as well.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You have a brown t-pattern and a brown check. The lighter feathers are old and the darker ones are new. Brown fades in the sunlight. The 2009 does look like a cockbird. From what I can see the other one is not banded? Any idea on how old it is? The person you got them from should know what gender the 2009 is at least.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

MaryOfExeter said:


> You have a brown t-pattern and a brown check. The lighter feathers are old and the darker ones are new. Brown fades in the sunlight. The 2009 does look like a cockbird. From what I can see the other one is not banded? Any idea on how old it is? The person you got them from should know what gender the 2009 is at least.


I'm not sure why the other bird is not banded but the seller said that it is still "young". I'd estimate around 1 or 2 years old.

Do browns ususally have that "golden/shiny" neck feathers or its just me?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I am seeing an ash red based bird either almond or carrying blue with super flecking in the first bird and I am seeing a dilute blue in the second bird, The reasons for this are the tail bar on the first bird does not appear brown and the darker feathers appear very dark, too dark for a brown check, The second bird has what appear to be sulphur (dilute bronze) flecks around the neck and also looks to have an orange eye. I could be wrong here but I am not seeing brown birds. I agree with Becky, that this last bird has a major case of bleaching, more than I have ever seen on a dilute blue but I have heard that some will show just as much bleaching as a brown.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I am seeing an ash red based bird either almond or carrying blue with super flecking in the first bird and I am seeing a dilute blue in the second bird, The reasons for this are the tail bar on the first bird does not appear brown and the darker feathers appear very dark, too dark for a brown check, The second bird has what appear to be sulphur (dilute bronze) flecks around the neck and also looks to have an orange eye. I could be wrong here but I am not seeing brown birds. I agree with Becky, that this last bird has a major case of bleaching, more than I have ever seen on a dilute blue but I have heard that some will show just as much bleaching as a brown.


Hmm.. interesting.. I'd think brown but what do I know about pigeon genetics, lol. But would you like the tail and wing feather pictures?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Tail would be awesome, Wing good too. And a close up of the eye of the second bird if possible.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Well for the last two days I have been going thru my Genetics books to find what is giving us the gold feathers. This is what I came up with, Gibson did a lot of work with the gimpel pattern. In combination with Pale, it produces a gold color over the body leaving the wings and tail full color. Gibson did this work just 20 years ago (1993), so there not be many that know of his work. * The next to last bird is the bird I would like to see the wing opened up, and the tail spread I also would like to see the underside of this bird,to see if there any gold color on the underside of this bird. .GEORGE


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

*"Female" (first post bird)*


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

*"Male" (second post bird)*


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

*"Female"*



*"Male"*


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I would think brown now too, The first bird appeared to have no tail bar in the first pic, Second looks to have false pearl too so most likely browns.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I would think brown now too, The first bird appeared to have no tail bar in the first pic, Second looks to have false pearl too so most likely browns.


Cool, thanks NZ Pigeon. 

Could you please explain a bit more about "tail bar" and how it may determine their color (or other colors/traits)?
So both are brown birds, correct?
By any chance, do you know if they carry blue (or other colors)?
Can you see any specific traits/gene they have?
Brown + Brown = Brown?

Sorry, these birds have a very different color/pattern (to me) and I am just so curious! (Of course, if you don't mind to elaborate)


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Brown can only carry brown, Becky, could the second one be grizzle or is it really all down to bleaching??

Ash red birds have almost non visible tail bars, Blues and browns will show a tail bar. Also, some modifiers such as Indigo, Dom opal will effect the tail bar so the tail bar can be a good indication of many modifiers.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Brown can only carry brown, Becky, could the second one be grizzle or is it really all down to bleaching??
> 
> Ash red birds have almost non visible tail bars, Blues and browns will show a tail bar. Also, some modifiers such as Indigo, Dom opal will effect the tail bar so the tail bar can be a good indication of many modifiers.


Sounds good NZ Pigeon. I will probably pair these two up then next spring/summer.

I did some research on "brown pigeon genetic", blue and red is dominate over brown. It would be wise to pair brown to brown to get the most brown offsprings; compared to blue with brown or red with brown.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Brown can only carry brown, Becky, could the second one be grizzle or is it really all down to bleaching??


Yip, bleaching can lighten the feathers on browns dramatically, especially if the birds get a lot of sun and bath time. My dilute brown indigo hen bleaches so much she gets confused for lemon / extreme dilute sometimes


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## Hussain49 (Nov 19, 2019)

plz send me ebook of pigeon genetics.i need it.i am a PhD student(genetic).i am interested in producing color pigeons.


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