# Please help! Pigeon breathing with mouth open, can’t stand up or eat



## shazk123 (Apr 17, 2015)

Hi, 

My pet pigeon is very ill. She laid her first pair of eggs on 3 and 5 April but then abandoned them. Then she laid another pair of eggs on 13 and 15 April and has been getting worse ever since. (I always replace with fake eggs whenever she lays eggs).

She wasn’t that bad yesterday (the day after she laid her eggs). She could balance and stand up straight. She was drinking water herself and she did eat, although less than normal. She had an open mouth and was breathing through it after around 6pm onwards and I thought this was maybe because she had laid eggs and was feeling weak. She doesn’t make any noise when breathing.

However, today she has gotten progressively worse and worse. She can’t stand up herself and falls to her right side, with her legs in the other direction if she isn’t wrapped in a towel or if I’m not holding her (I’ve attached a picture). She can’t eat as she has no energy to move, and her head is pointing down touching the floor. She is also losing feathers, probably from stress. She does drink a little bit of water when I put it in front of her and dip her beak into it. I’ve added salt and sugar into the water too as I read that on here. I have wrapped her up in a towel and have put a hot water bottle underneath for warmth and I am hand feeding her the Kaytee Formula with a syringe as it is the only liquid food I have. Also, her neck area has sunken in (see pictures).

I can’t seem to find any local avian vets by doing a google search near where I live (UK: East London- Ilford). There is a vet nearby but I think they specialise in cats and dogs. I will phone them tomorrow and describe the situation and if they are able to help I will take her there. If anyone knows of a local avian vet near my town, please let me know.

I’ve attached pictures (the yellow substance around her beak and feathers is food as I took some of the pictures right after feeding her.) From what I can see, inside her mouth seems fine and clear, but I am not sure what it is supposed to look like so I have attached pictures as best as I could that look inside the beak. Also, she is 3 years old (although her beak never fully turned black and white).

I think this is related to her laying 4 eggs in such a short space of time. Can someone please help me in the meantime about what I should do? Is there medicine I can buy? I’ve tried to include as much information as I can. 
I’ve recorded a video of her breathing too but I am not sure how to attach it.

Thanks so much for your time.

Pictures:
http://i.imgur.com/RK2WtjN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Rx2ESCd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l4cAM7H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QCe6nVE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ha9wOBt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G2hsnDI.jpg

EDIT: I have added a video:
https://vid.me/YnWr


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Calcium Gluconate/liquid calcium asap. If you don't have any on hand, go to a health food store and get liquid calcium for a human and get it into the bird via
oral syringe ever so carefully. Can't give Baytril at the same time as calcium
supplements, so if you have Trimethoprim Sulpha or Ceflex on hand or can get,
it may also be of help. 

Be careful about the heating pad, make sure there is enough 'bedding' on top
to insulate the bird from too much heat.

If you can get the bird to an avian vet, this would be ideal.


----------



## shazk123 (Apr 17, 2015)

Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate it!

Holland and Barrett is the closest health food store to me. Do you think this would be OK for liquid calcium?:

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/vitabiotics-osteocare-liquid-60013709?c=liquid calcium


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Definitely calcium deficient. That liquid calcium is fine.

If she has stopped eating you will also need to hand/force feed, because not eating or not eating enough only adds to her weakness and distress.

Please check this link on feeding peas and corn. http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/peasandcorn.htm *


----------



## shazk123 (Apr 17, 2015)

Thanks, I feel so much better now!
I will feed her the peas and corn tomorrow and buy the liquid calcium tomorrow. Is it OK for me to also continue feeding her the Kaytee formula?
How much calcium would you recommend I give her and how often?


----------



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is the Kaytee formula thick enough? She looks thin. Frozen peas and corn are mostly water. If she is very weak, the peas may not pass into gissard, blocking the liquid food to pass into gissard as well.

Also she has something more beside calcium defficiency. She need B and A vitamins, probiotics. The respiratory symptom may be the result of water that entered her lungs, which will be absorbed in 1-2 days. Is is not absorbed, it means is a respiratory disease. Don't give Baytril as is a too strong antibiotic. Give instead amoxicillin, if respiratory symptom persists. Just this night, I have a pigeon that was making some sound when breathing, like a human runny nose (gurgling viscous liquid). I didn't know the disease but when I gave amoxicillin instantly stopped making the sound (after few hours in which the symptom progressed)

What you mean by "the neck area has sunked"?


The pigeon looks like the second pigeon I cared, more than two years ago. At that time I had no experience, feeding only with one kind of seeds (wheat), not giving vitamins, minerals and probiotics. Now I know how desperately she needed these. She died hit by a car, neveertheless.

If your pigeon recovers, from now on feed her a proper pigeon seed mix.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

How is she? Yes keep feeding her the kaytee if she will take it safely and the peas and corn and if u can find any peanuts some of those as well about 8 to 10 a day. Feed her at least 3 times a day.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Shazk123, yes of course the one you posted link for is fine. Just a caution on the feeding of any sick bird, they need the supplemental nutrition that you give them but their bodies aren't operating at a full function level so better to underfeed than over feed in the beginning. If you have a good response, you can always increase. Good luck and keep the board posted.


----------



## shazk123 (Apr 17, 2015)

@AndreiS: I made the formula thin to make it easier for her to swallow but I will thicken it next time.
I mean that where her upper back/lower neck is, it dips in slightly.
This is what I feed her:
http://imgur.com/3tRFcOK
Before she was ill, I fed the seed mix every day and she eats the grit whenever she wants, and she chooses what she wants from sunflower seeds, budgie seeds, sesame seeds, pine nuts, lentils, peas etc. every other day or once a week when she is in the mood. Is there anything else you recommend feeding when she is better?

@CBL: She is a tiny bit better than yesterday, she was moving her feet a bit today whereas yesterday she wouldn’t move at all.

I’m going to phone the vets in 1 hour at 9am when they open. However, I’ve read these reviews where they put down a cat without telling the owner, another said they missed the diagnosis of their car for 2-3 years, another said they are unprofessional and didn’t do a proper check up: 
https://plus.google.com/107147008947514050544/about?hl=en&gl=uk
I’m a bit cautious. Am I looking too much into this or should I still phone the vet? Or treat her myself with calcium, vitamin A+B. Where would I buy amoxicillin, I think in the UK you can only buy that with a prescription, shall I ask the vet to provide it?


----------



## shazk123 (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm going to leave in half an hour to buy liquid calcium and liquid vitamin a and b (if I can find it). How much of this shall I mix into the Kaytee formula?


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

If you go to vet, I would INSIST to be in exam room with, DONT let them do ANY procedure on her unless they explain EXACTLY what they WANT to attempt and make an informed decision. Tell them YOU will hold the bird not them. Tell them u think his has hypOcalcemia and can they help with supplements or meds as you are doing fine and are rehabbing her. DO NOT LEAVE THE bird with them and make it clear you DO NOT want to euthanize even if is their OPINION. That said, if you want them to have a boo and try to get supplements and meds that you think u need then great. If she is a tidge better today, thats great, ur on the right track. Let us know how it goes. The vits 1 drop in formula, the calcium Im not sure. Someone else can better answer that one.


----------



## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Also google egg paralysis and see what you find, often if there is another egg in there pressing on kidneys or nerves it can cause this, I would have the vet feel for that or if u have the $ an xray to rule it out.


----------



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

shazk123 said:


> @AndreiS: I made the formula thin to make it easier for her to swallow but I will thicken it next time.


Thicken it enough. Think not at the amount of water, but at the amount of dried substance that a bird must take in. A sick bird needs to have the crop always filled with food. Empty crop means the disease will advance faster. But don't refill the crop until is not almost empty because the new food will mix with the partly digested one creating troubles, even crop blocking.



> This is what I feed her:
> http://imgur.com/3tRFcOK
> 
> Before she was ill, I fed the seed mix every day and she eats the grit whenever she wants, and she chooses what she wants from sunflower seeds, budgie seeds, sesame seeds, pine nuts, lentils, peas etc. every other day or once a week when she is in the mood. Is there anything else you recommend feeding when she is better?


If you can't buy a specially designed pigeon seed mix, search online to see what pigeon's diet must contain. Variety is very important, only 1-2 types of seeds is insuficient. Pigeon's main food is *corn*, the others must be in smaller percentage. But each birds has preferences so you must offer a variety of seeds so that she will pick what she want.

And the grit must be the one specially designed for pigeon, with *larger pieces of shell and with red stone* (crushed brick), not the one for small birds which you give. 




















> I’m a bit cautious. Am I looking too much into this or should I still phone the vet?


If is not an avian vet, he / she is of little help. In university they are focused on studying mammals and when starting to practice have little theoretical and almost not at all practical experience with birds. I would say to avoid going to a non-avian vet. If he / she doesn't know what the bird has will try to fool you with technical terms to take your money and possibly the bird will receive wrong diagnosis and die.

Even if is an avian vet I would be reserved, as the domain of bird medicine is quite misleading even for professionals.




> Or treat her myself with calcium, vitamin A+B. Where would I buy amoxicillin, I think in the UK you can only buy that with a prescription, shall I ask the vet to provide it?


Firstly, dosage is very important. Too little means no efect, too much toxicity, making the situation worse than without medication. Calcium: 50 mg / day. Vitamins: I have a liquid mix of vitamins from which I gave 1-2 drops to each bird. If you buy from a vet drugstoe, the product will have indications. If you buy from human drugstore is more complicated, you have to search online for vitamin dosages for birds.

For respiratory problem it may be better doxycycline. As I said, don't give medicine immediately, wait 1 day to see if is not water that entered the lung. Then give doxycycline and if no effect, try amoxicillin. Dosage for a 300 gr pigeon: 40 mg amoxicillin or doxycycline. Also, is very important to give probiotics when giving antibiotics and not only when giving antibiotics but all the time (daily or every few days). You can buy vet or human probiotics but take care to not have as excipient lactosis and (if human probiotics) to not have sweetener.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL. Don't let the bird out of your sight or control if you go to a vet, unless you really really know and trust that they are an avian expert who will do everything they can to save the bird.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL. Don't let the bird out of your sight or control if you go to a vet, unless you really really know and trust that they are an avian expert who will do everything they can to save the bird. Agree with AndreiS that not all avian vets are equal. I know one who is beyond comparison and wonderful, one who is ethical and tries, and one who I wouldn't take anything alive to as her favorite treatment is euthanasia.


----------

