# neglected squabs



## fishdoc (Apr 29, 2006)

Hi, I am new to the pigeon fancy, but bought a kit of fantails. This has not been a great transition. lost three to a weasel I am fairly certain, so i go out every night and put them in a small coop for safe keeping until I can build a bigger, safer coop. (they are in chain link now). The problem is nature: they keep laying eggs, and one pair successfully hatched two young. On day 7, I found one 18" from the nest trampled and pecked to death. This happened in the daytime. Next day I found the nestmate sitting in the same spot. I put him back in the nest, and so far so good, but now neither parent is spending a lot of time in there...is this a common occurrence in less than optimal conditions? result of crowding? Is there a special food I should be feeding for parents? I have tried conditioning and breeding seed mix, and both have a huge amount of waste as they don't like the large pea sized seeds, but what we have available is limited. It is also extremely hot these days ( over 108 last week) but the coop is in shade all day....any advice would be appreciated...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There are a few fantail experts on here (the forum) but I'm not. I do seem to remember something to the effect that fantails might not make the world's best parents, though. Eventually, one of them may happen upon this thread but I'll see if I can find one of them and email or PM them about your problem.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I sent a link to Birdmom4ever....I believe she raises fantails.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, apparently she does--I found this thread and it has some applicable comments in it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13865

Pidgey


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## fishdoc (Apr 29, 2006)

*Thanks, although not necessarily good news..*

The thread provided was helpful, although not necessarily good news. I also have a few nuns, but they have such short beaks... what kind of parents do they make? I am seriously hoping once I have them in permanent digs, they can settle down ( I have had to move the coop twice in the couple of months since I got them, then had the weasel incident-which selectively killed the three that were my favorites: one of which was 11 years old...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi fishdoc,



Yahhhh...you need to make them a nice aviary with 1/4 inch Wire
Mesh, Wire 'cloth' or Screen, and lots of room and plenty of equal nesting boxes and roosting places...

They may make Nests and Hatch Eggs, but if they are stressed or bothered by things which annoy them, they can neglect their Babys...and or get on eachother's nerves.

Fantails as such may be more sensitive or wacky than others, but I am speaking merely in a general way.


They need good shelter and yet they need direct Sunshine in moderation...they need room...excercise and ease for whatever the population density is for the aviary or Coop or as may be, or it can stress them and make for health problems, and familial and social problems...


Where do you live?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If you haven't seen the hardware cloth, here's a link to what Phil is referring to:

http://www.twpinc.com/twp/jsp/product.jsp?type=4

fp


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Perhaps I can help; I have both fantails and nuns (also rollers and some other breeds). 

First, as others have pointed out, you need a secure loft. Chain link will let all kinds of things in, as I'm afraid you learned the hard way. Best bet for fantails is to build a proper pigeon loft on pier blocks or however you want to build it, but a building with solid floor and walls and good ventilation. An attached "fly-pen" is nice for fresh air. Fantails aren't good flyers but they enjoy fresh air and sunshine as much as any pigeon and they really love to bathe.

Here's a link to plans for a starter loft. It's meant for flying breeds, but I think you could modify it for your fantails. http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm

I'm not a fantail expert, but I know people in my pigeon club who are, and everyone I know who is serious about raising them for show keeps them in lofts without perches. They provide shallow nest boxes on the floor for them. I don't do this because I'm not serious about showing them and we don't have the set-up for it, but I've noticed most of my fans prefer to nest on the ground and have trouble keeping their eggs underneath them. If you read the thread about my baby that almost died back in February, you know I've had the same problem you encountered. I've tried putting nest bowls on the ground for them, but they don't like them. Shallow nest boxes made of wood will do the trick and you can give them pine needles for bedding.

I have about 20 fantails and while some are excellent parents, others are not. My nuns are not very good parents, either. Some of these fancy breeds just don't have good parenting instincts. Fortunately the majority of our pigeons are Birmingham rollers and they are excellent parents. I'd recommend keeping a few pairs (if you have room) on dummy eggs to act as fosters for your fans. Most of the people I know who raise show pigeons keep rollers and homers around to act as fosters for their fancy breeds. 

The other thing I learned recently from the show fantail guys is that they believe the birds have a better stance if they aren't allowed to use perches. They are supposed to hold their tails up, walk on tiptoe and tuck their heads back against their tails. They say that keeping them on the ground helps them maintain a proper stance, whereas balancing on a perch causes them to get in the habit of holding their tails in the wrong position. 

Anyway, I'm sorry for your losses and I wish you the best of luck in the future with your fantails. They are sweet, charming birds and lots of fun. Don't give up.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Fantails need a little larger breeding area But if you do not have that they can nest on the floor As longas you have the room. Fantails are not the best parents. But most often do okNow some young parents may just not have the experiance yet. And if the temps are as you say They will not be spending as much time at the nest after the young bird is say 10 days old. Now you need to keep feed and water on hand while they have the young birds. so they can feed as they need. You can build breeding holes that are 20 inches high 30 to 36 inches long and 20 to 22 inches deep for your fantails That lest them breed better then use shallow nest bowls in the compartment for them. Also trim the tails lets for better breeding. Fantails are more a ground bird if you ever plan on showing as this helps keep the tail in better shape and keeps them from developing funnel tails from flying alot But if you just want them for back yard birds You can use perches and such.


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## fishdoc (Apr 29, 2006)

*thanks for all the suggestions*

JUst a quick update, second baby was found wandering again today... with peck marks, but not dead. My problem is I bought the birds before I was ready, because they just dug up my back yard to put new septic system in, brought in a storage building, and I have had to move the portable coop twice, but the person was going to break up the old kit, just to get rid of them. Now I plan on proceeding to put in a more secure loft, so all your suggestions will be very helpful... seems like nothing is simple anymore!!
regards
connie
ps. I live in SE NM, near Roswell


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Since you live in NM You'll have to take heat into consideration when you build your loft. Do you know any other pigeon keepers in your area? Can you find out if there is a local pigeon club? The best way to prepare for building a loft is to visit other pigeon owners in your area and see their lofts. They usually have design features you might not think of and lofts are constructed differently according to climate so it's wise to visit lofts in your locale before you build. We visited several lofts in our area before we built ours and it was very helpful. Even so, there are things I'd do differently if I were building it today.

I highly recommend joining your local pigeon club if there is one because you will benefit so much from the wisdom of others who have been in the hobby a long time. Here's a link to the NPA's web site: www.npausa.com
Even if you don't plan to show your birds, it's fun to get together with other breeders.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, I tried the NPA link and unfortunately didn't find any NPA clubs in NM. You might try the American Racing Pigeon Union: http://www.pigeon.org/

It's a much different hobby than raising show pigeons, but the basics of pigeon care are the same.


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## fishdoc (Apr 29, 2006)

*whooo whooo new coop!!*

Hubby built me a coop this weekend, 4' by 8' so if we need to move it we can, front has 4' of 1/2 inch hardware cloth with a nice 12" shelf, two sides are solid, door is all hardware cloth, but very secure... I will still put the chain link flight pen up (12' x6' x6'), but they will have a very secure place to feed them and shelter them. Right now the wild birds get WAY more than there share, which would be OK, except they have their own feeder, and I don't want to expose the pigeons to who knows what!! Happy 4th of July to me and the birds! Thanks for all your suggestions,
connie


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Congratulations on your new coop! And yes, you want to keep wild birds out of your coop, especially your pigeons' food. I love them too, but they can carry diseases that would affect your pigeons.


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