# Colors and Patterns



## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi every one 

I got two new youngsters with cool tail patterns and i would like to know what the patterns are called 

thanks Eric


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

any one know


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

come on people 113 views and no one know


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## Silver Wings (Jan 27, 2014)

I think you have a lot of us curious who are learning genetics that just don't know. I'm watching to see answers


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

Looks like 'flash grizzle' a non sex-linked recessive gene. The grizzling appears to be more pronounced in the presence of pied genes. (References Axel Sell and Paul Gibson).


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

Part of the problem with not getting more replies, is that "tail patterns" are generally not named. In pigeon genetics, pattern names are generally used to describe the bird and specifically the pattern on the wing shield. Because your birds are predominantly white, a genetic factor such as one or more of the "pied" genes covers up the true pattern on the wing shields and therefore, the patterns cannot be seen or identified. That is why on genetic websites, it is often suggested to mate a bird with unknown or unidentifiable genetic factors with a blue-bar. The theory being that many of the genetic factors will be revealed in the offspring when mated to a bird without a bunch of complicating modifying factors itself.

Jim


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

thanks for the reply's guys


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Jim

if i understood correctly, there is no such thing as tail patterns names


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

Correct. The one possible exception that I am aware of is "Ribbontail" which I think is a term sometimes used to describe a tail with a white subterminal band. Normally the band is black in blue pigeons, brown in brown and dilute blues and absent or nearly so in Ash Red birds.

Jim


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

interesting they should start making names for tail pattern 
because all my pigeons have only colored tails it would be
nice to have names for all of them


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

*What color/pattern is this*

Hi all I got some new pigeons and am wondering what color and pattern they are
Thanks ahead to all replies


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Almost looks Qualmond(?)


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

Looks like Spread blue qualmond; if a cock, heterozygous qualmond,


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

I have a male and a female


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok so if there qualmond how can I get more qualmond off springs out of them
Because they have been paired up for a year and I have got nothing from them
they only make a nest and that's it no eggs at all


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I have no clue, but someone will answer that I am sure. They are Beautiful!


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Are you sure it is cock and hen?? If so is the hen old? If a hen and not old there could be another reason she is infertile......happens sometims with all creatures. However, I would make sure diet is good and varied and includes grit and clean water and sunshine. Give them a round of eggs to sit and foster (may get her cycle back on sync). If later she still won't lay switch them to different mates. You can pair the cock with a black or blue and still get some qualmond young from him.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

They are male and female 100% they are both 2013 they get all the sun an clean water and ect that they need what do you think I will get if I pair him up with one of this


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Or this one


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

you state that you just got them so how do you know are you takeing the word of the seller do you have other birds in there with them they should be in a moult maybe not laying


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

I didn't exactly just get them I got the 3-4 months ago but there still new to me
I know because I got three more pairs with them and the others already had eggs twice


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

you got two males


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Two males of the same color or


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Males do NOT normally Pair up like hens do..... In Fact I have NEVER had it happen in 50 Years.


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

males will pair up make really good fosters as you can put eggs in there nests any time and they will accept them and incubate if you buy a small group of birds from a dealer and they are not honest you often will end up with more males than pairs so if you have had the birds awhile this could be a couple other things something gets eggs before you see them are they 2014 birds banded with 2013 bands so many possiblitys but my first guess two males paired you have no hens


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

They are 100% not to males there are not banded but there 2013


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok so back to the topic what will I get if I pair up the qualmond male to one of those two female that I posted pictures of


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

How do you know that they are not two males? I have had a pen of 20+ males together for about six months. Many of them were mated to the extreme of not accepting females when I decided to pair them up. 

If you mate a cock of that color, which appears to be qualmond or spread almond, with one of your other hens that is not the same genetic color factor, (one of the other hens appears to possibly be the same, genetically, with different expression because of different base color or less flecking because she's a hen,) you will get about half of the cocks color (with some variance) and half other colors.

What color are the other birds that you obtained from the same breeder.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

I no 100% that they are not two males so to make it 1000% sure I paired the male with a 1000% proven female and the female with a 1000% proven male and will see.
I don't no the colors of those two hens they are not pure colored


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Good, but you may want to try mating the "eggless hen" to another hen, because some cock birds will adopt a hens behavior when mated to another cock.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi 
So earlier I posted pic of two youngsters this is what they look like now


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

What did you learn about the eggless pair? Cock and hen or two cocks?


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

The cock is a cock and a fertile on. The hen is a hen as well


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

The bird with light colored tail in heterozygous ash red and the dark tailed bird looks like frill stencil spread blue (frill stencil black).

You could try fostering an egg or two into the nest of the eggless hen pair, if you catch her setting in the 
nest acting like she wants eggs. (The egg should have been layed within ten days of transfer.) Sometimes setting and feeding a baby or two for a month will stimulate them to lay.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

My bad. The dark tailed bird probably is not fs black because the spread factor combined with fs would cause the white area to extend downward toward the base of feather, rather than being restricted to the tail band only. Maybe someone else will help answer that one.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

thanks tmaas
ill keep it in mined if i ever catch her


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

the one looks almost reduced


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Red tailed bird*

The red tail is recessive red with a bronze factor. That is what is commonly called ribbon tail. The bronzing factor maybe linked to the white too which is probably a combination of bronze and some other genes causing the white body. The picture of the other bird is taken at the wrong angle to see enough detail of the bird.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Is this better or is it the wrong one


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Aha, the bird looked black rather than red in the first pic. Yes, it's a combinattion of ash red and bronze, causing ribbon tail effect. It is likely not recessive red at all. Red Lebanons express this same tail coloration and are combination of smokey, bronze and ash red, without rr.


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## Snakeman13 (Oct 28, 2013)

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html will help you understand genetics


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok correct me if I'm wrong the light tail one is a heterozygous ash red, do you guys see it more reddish in the picture because it is more of a gray with a little bit of red like you can hardly see it, and the dark tail one is a, didn't really get what it is. 
Thanks for all the replies I have two more birds with interesting color/patterns, I'll post pic of them a bit latter


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok here is one


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

i think this one is a frill stencil black


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

I think you may have many different genetic factors in your your family of birds, including ash red, spread, smokey, bronze, grizzle, flash grizzle, maybe reduced and frill stencil also. It'll be difficult to determine which they are without color being expressed in the wing shield.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok got it the next pic that I'll post later has a shield and I think it's a kit


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

here she is


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

She's some type of bronze but I wouldn't call it kite. To me she appears to be a bronze expression derived from the Ts complex or a type of grizzle, because her bronze appears to shade into white toward the base of each feather, which is not a characteristic of kite bronze nor any of the bronze traits that are typical in almonds. 

In my opinion kite bronze expresses itself the strongest in the flight feathers. I'm breeding almond homers and have come to believe that bronze coloration on various areas of a pigeon work independent of one another. I'm now raising some t-check blue birds with bronze shields only, bronze breast only, and bronze flights only (which I call kite), with some expressing bronze in two of the three areas but very few express it in all three.


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## cire345 (Jan 5, 2014)

So not kit she's one of a kind in my loft


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## zgrg (Aug 16, 2015)

*flash(flash grizzle) pics*

Hi,
I am new to PK and could not get any pics of flash (flash grizzle) by using search. Any suggestion? 
Thanx
Greg


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