# Buying Pigeons!



## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi again sorry about all the questions. I will be getting in a day or two a few racing off a local fancier. These are the normal cheque racing pigeons. They dont have any pedrigree of their sire,dam,etc. and bloodline. But i was thinking of buying two young racing pigeons a hen and cock off 2 different bloodlines in the summer and breed them then in the following year off two very good bloodlines a marijka vink line and a kees bosua line these would'nt be cheap and would probably be around the 4 to €500 range. Would it be worth it? Is it very risky? I would like to have some well bred pigeons with pedigrees for breeding to start in my loft and maybe start to develope my own family of pigeons from them and be hopeing this 2 pigeons would throw some fast pigeons and some good breeders. what do ye think??? have you anyother ideas? aslo do a lot of fanciers race pigeons with no pedigree??? are the pigeons worth less??? Thanks.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

kevin321 said:


> Hi again sorry about all the questions. I will be getting in a day or two a few racing off a local fancier. These are the normal cheque racing pigeons. They dont have any pedrigree of their sire,dam,etc. and bloodline. But i was thinking of buying two young racing pigeons a hen and cock off 2 different bloodlines in the summer and breed them then in the following year off two very good bloodlines a marijka vink line and a kees bosua line these would'nt be cheap and would probably be around the 4 to €500 range. Would it be worth it? Is it very risky? I would like to have some well bred pigeons with pedigrees for breeding to start in my loft and maybe start to develope my own family of pigeons from them and be hopeing this 2 pigeons would throw some fast pigeons and some good breeders. what do ye think??? have you anyother ideas? aslo do a lot of fanciers race pigeons with no pedigree??? are the pigeons worth less??? Thanks.


from what i think the pedigree tells nothing it just make the bird cost more... if you are buying bird to be your stock .. buy birds that have been raced before and did good!
it's very risky if you buy the bird for just the name(Bloodline).
do some research about who fly where you live .... find a club and check who is doing good ... ask that person if they will let you buy some.
better to buy birds that can home than buying a bird you know nothing where it came from. 

remember keep the best , sell the good, the the bad will cull themself 

Blong


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

this is from the book"PIGEON PASSION" by Elliott Lang

when presented with two fanciers, one who won ten prizes and one who won three prizes you would be forgiven for assuming the first was the best to buy from. However. if you then discover that the first fancier entered a hundred birds to win those ten prizes whilst the second entered three and won three then you should immediately see who the best to buy from is.

hope this help...know where you buy them from .. don't waste alot of money on good (bloodline)birds when you can get great birds near you (local club).


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks blong boy. I still would like to purchase stock birds with a pedigree just to know their line and to add value to their young but ya I will give some more thought of getting 2 pigeons for stock that have good race results and pedigree but they would be more expensive.Thanks again.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

You don't race the Pedigree--only the birds
AND most times you will find that your best birds were given to you


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

sky tx said:


> You don't race the Pedigree--only the birds
> AND most times you will find that your best birds were given to you


sky tx was right!


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

O I know that but what i'm saying is a least a pigeon with a pedigree you know what their line of breeding is. You have no idea what a pigeon with no pedigree is out of.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

kevin321 said:


> O I know that but what i'm saying is a least a pigeon with a pedigree you know what their line of breeding is. You have no idea what a pigeon with no pedigree is out of.


the flyer should know what family is in this blood. well if you plan to sell then it's all you.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

even if the flyer knows what family his birds are off if he is trying to sell some how can he prove it. Is a bird with good race results and a pedigree more valuable than a bird with good race results and no pedigree??? Or is it purely race results that matter??? Thanks.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

kevin321 said:


> even if the flyer knows what family his birds are off if he is trying to sell some how can he prove it. Is a bird with good race results and a pedigree more valuable than a bird with good race results and no pedigree??? Or is it purely race results that matter??? Thanks.



birds sell high with high race results! results matter ....


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

A pedigree is only as honest as the person that wrote it.
Some of "US" can make Pedigrees with the Janssen 019 somewhere in the bloodline.
That will add $100 to the bird. and their Squabs won 3-4 300 mile races--add another $200. Add that the Grandparents won 4-5 Races tack on another $200.
Now you have a $2 bird with a $500 piece of paper.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

sky tx said:


> A pedigree is only as honest as the person that wrote it.
> Some of "US" can make Pedigrees with the Janssen 019 somewhere in the bloodline.
> That will add $100 to the bird. and their Squabs won 3-4 300 mile races--add another $200. Add that the Grandparents won 4-5 Races tack on another $200.
> Now you have a $2 bird with a $500 piece of paper.


true it on how honest they are


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

Sure their are a few dishonest people out their that mess with the pedigree but the majority are respectable. If you ask around before hand and find out from people that have bought from them you should be ok. Like I might be wrong about buying a cock and hen with pedigrees for stock. Like I dont think it decides a birds but I would still like to see written down on paper what my birds are out of.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

kevin321 said:


> Sure their are a few dishonest people out their that mess with the pedigree but the majority are respectable. If you ask around before hand and find out from people that have bought from them you should be ok. Like I might be wrong about buying a cock and hen with pedigrees for stock. Like I dont think it decides a birds but I would still like to see written down on paper what my birds are out of.


it's like this man ...flyer that fly for enjoyment ... will be a good place to buy good bird,
flyer that sell alot of birds even tho he fly he still want to sell...it could be risky


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

If I were to spend the 500 on a bird I would want both a good racing record and also a good bloodline. The bloodlines that you mentioned are very good. So one part of the puzzle would be filled. This is now a big dilemma. Does good bloodline outweigh a race record? Does a race record outweigh a good bloodline? If the bird has both then their is now dilemma. For instance a guy in our club won a club race with a bird off of two imported Koopman birds from his best. There you go you got a winner at your level of competition with a good background. Doubt if he would sell it for $500.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

fair enough


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My winner this year flies fast and has a good pedigree. If it did not have a pedigree would I still keep it? yep. If it just had a good ped and did not fly fast would I keep it? Not very long. Give it one or two years breeding. I have found that most good races at least breed top 10% birds. Not all good birds on paper breeds these birds.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Just a thought HOW DID THOSE BLOODLINES GET TO BE GOOD? They won races. Start winning races and then keep track of you owne bloonlines. If you want to sell birds then go for an older line if you want to win races build the next top line.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

kevin321 said:


> I would like to have some well bred pigeons with pedigrees for breeding to start in my loft and maybe start to develope my own family of pigeons from them and be hopeing this 2 pigeons would throw some fast pigeons and some good breeders.


I think you have your answer already.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I would like If I could get them with both but the price would go up 2. I would be hoping that if I did decide to buy the young pair that they would throw a good pigeon and then go from there. but again its very risky. So I think I'll have to go with a pigeon with a good race record but with not as good a pedigree.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

kevin321 said:


> Thanks for the info. I would like If I could get them with both but the price would go up 2. I would be hoping that if I did decide to buy the young pair that they would throw a good pigeon and then go from there. but again its very risky. So I think I'll have to go with a pigeon with a good race record but with not as good a pedigree.


with a bird have a good race record .... the pedigree doesn't matter good or bad.pedigree just say this bird might be good...that all


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks again. Ye might have just saved me a lot of money . Also I'm interested in eye sign. What are ye views on it. Do you think it makes any difference to a stock or racing pigeon. I myself believe in eyesign for breeders I dont think its as important for racers.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

O else cost me more money!!!!!!lol


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Eyesign??--not sure what you mean-or looking for-BUT
You better look at the Eye before shipping.
It should be Perfectly Round and Clear
Along with the tongue- has a White dot on the tip.
hold the foot to your cheek--it should feel warm---If it feels "hot" [pool] it.
Bubble on the keil?-kiel?
BUT THEN AGAIN---just the way I do it.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I also think there are ways to get good pigeons without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.racingpigeonauction.com/Auction/XcAPViewInCat.asp?ID=240
The first bird on this list probably is a decent racer and even without a pedigree it is likely from a very good family. For $100 or a flash buy of $150. Rankin has invested a bunch of money in some very good stock. Stuff that gets thousands a bird.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

sky tx said:


> A pedigree is only as honest as the person that wrote it.
> Some of "US" can make Pedigrees with the Janssen 019 somewhere in the bloodline.
> That will add $100 to the bird. and their Squabs won 3-4 300 mile races--add another $200. Add that the Grandparents won 4-5 Races tack on another $200.
> Now you have a $2 bird with a $500 piece of paper.




Put GFL in the ped and get another $500 for it. lol
Dave


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Buy a kit of late hatches from the best flier in your club. This might be a better way to go about it than a couple of imports for the paper. There are some people here in Pigeon talk that you would be surprised at the quality of the birds in their lofts. Buy a cheep kit or a box of breeders. Bet you could get some quality pedigreed birds for your $500. Too many guys chase name. 
Funny I called one of my friends in ABQ that I send birds to and he told me he just got some birds from France, do I want some youngsters? I asked them what they were off of. "Some Jose Thon guy and the others are Koopmans" My birds won him a few races and I get some birds off imported French birds. The Jose Thon guy he speaks of is Jos Thone'. Sometimes birds just come your way. I send him a kit to fly and he sends me some decent birds to try out in the breeding loft.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Another fun story is a little old hen I bought from an auction. Even know she was 10 years old and probably washed up, I could no pass up $50 for an import with a killer pedigree. In two years she laid one egg. I have one cock off her that will start breeding this year. I was looking through a Pipa auction the other day and saw birds off the same breeder, Berckmoes. Looked at the pedigree. The ped was identical with mine except that it was a generation newer further from the foundation. My bird is a daughter of Virenque his Bourges winner vs 13k birds. The bird sold for $750 on Pipa. Even if I got one bird off of her $50 is a pretty fair price. Now he just has to breed a winner. Mated her with my Engels bird. Engels flies in Berckmoes' province.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

hillfamilyloft
Some times it just pays to be a nice guy, Good luck with that $50 bird.
Dave


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> hillfamilyloft
> Some times it just pays to be a nice guy, Good luck with that $50 bird.
> Dave


If it does well for me, I might just have to sell a few babies off it, for say $50 a piece. Pass on the wealth.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Let me know I go to Tuscon several times a yr. I'll swing by and pick one up.
Dave


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

sky tx said:


> You don't race the Pedigree--only the birds
> AND most times you will find that your best birds were given to you


Sky TX,

2010 was my first year racing and that's exactly what heard over and over from the estabished flyers in my club and surrounding clubs.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Eyesign??--not sure what you mean-or looking for-BUT
> You better look at the Eye before shipping.
> It should be Perfectly Round and Clear
> Along with the tongue- has a White dot on the tip.
> ...


I would'nt be buying a bird on an online auction. These birds are up in antrim so I would go and see them first. there is some public pigeon auctions in dublin so I might just go to one of them instead.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Kevin321, are you talking Dublin Ohio?

Check out the birds for sale here. www.drjohnlamberton.com


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

No Eric k. Dublin in Ireland. I've seen some of that mans videos on youtube.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

If your in Ireland what about Ronnie Williamson's pigeons ? I hear he has won more pigeon races than anyone !


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> Let me know I go to Tuscon several times a yr. I'll swing by and pick one up.
> Dave


Come visit we will find a couple of birds out there for you.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> Let me know I go to Tuscon several times a yr. I'll swing by and pick one up.
> Dave


My mentor is also looking to downsize. He lives in Durango. He is at about 150 birds and only breeds from about 15 pairs. Plenty of good birds in this lot.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

It was gibb and byrne i was looking at in northern ireland but my god Ronnie williams has a lot of wins.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Kevin321
How many people/birds fly in our club/province etc?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I think Ronnie Williams has Busschaerts pigeons. He was the loft manager for Bertie Fletcher, Oakfield Loft for a time. Maybe learned alittle there too.


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## kevin321 (Dec 13, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Kevin321
> How many people/birds fly in our club/province etc?


I have'nt joined yet as I wont be able to race till next summer but I'm getting a few racing pigeons today. it will be the tralee club in co. kerry i will be joining. http://www.irishhomingunion.com/page27.htm


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Looks like a good bunch of fanciers.


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## Texas Satinettes (Jun 7, 2012)

I have two racing pigeons my male is a Gurnay, his band says Gurnay too, and the female I have him paired with I just learned is a Gurnay too , but they don't have a pedigree. They were given to my dad and he gave them to me. Now he want to to take them and give them away cause they don't have any pedigrees. He wants to give a pedigree pair! But I wanna keep my NO PEDIGREED BIRDS. I wanna take my chance on there offspring, I wanna take a chance on them being true Gurnay's. But wat do you think?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Texas Satinettes said:


> I have two racing pigeons my male is a Gurnay, his band says Gurnay too, and the female I have him paired with I just learned is a Gurnay too , but they don't have a pedigree. They were given to my dad and he gave them to me. Now he want to to take them and give them away cause they don't have any pedigrees. He wants to give a pedigree pair! But I wanna keep my NO PEDIGREED BIRDS. I wanna take my chance on there offspring, I wanna take a chance on them being true Gurnay's. But wat do you think?


 Listen to your Father. He may have forgotten more about pigeons at this point in his life, then you remember. Pedigree does not make the pigeon, but most serious fanciers do want to know the ancestry of their birds.


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