# Newbie needs immed. help please!



## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

I have 4 pet ring neck doves. They're BEAUTIFUL! I decided to let them lay on an egg. When it hatched, I was THRILLED to see the mama feeding the baby and laying on it. Three days later I when I went down to check on the birds, the baby was on the bottom of the cage floor and cold. They had removed the baby and the first layer of the nesting material. 

I took mama and baby and put them in a separate cage. Mom never fed baby. I waited 6 hours and then started on Exact. The baby was not only cold, but starving! When I noticed mama pecking at the baby, I removed her from the cage. I'm pretty sure that was mom as she was standing by baby on cage bottom.

I have the baby set up with a heat light and keep it at 95 degrees. I was feeding it only when the crop emptied, and that was only 3 times per day! I started to feed it 3cc and worked up to 6 because the crop was emptying faster. The baby was doing well, then last night I noticed green watery poop. I panicked and stayed up all night researching (wish I found this place!) and saw that by day 5 I should have had the ratio 1 part formula to 1 - 2 part water. I was previously doing at least 3 parts water, but made sure it was thin, usually added more. So Kaytee says to have it like a thick pudding, which I did. I was THRILLED to see the poop return to normal! BUT, I fed the little fella at 2:00 a.m. and it's now 12:00 p.m. (10 hours later) and the crop still hasn't emptied. It's getting closer and I'm thinking I will feed it in around an hour when crop empties. That makes it 11 hours without food!!! Should I change consistency again??? BUT, I'm worried about it sitting in there. Feed less and thick, or more just not runny?


The method which works best is that I cut the corner off a ziplock bag, chick inserts beak and opens, and while beak is open and bobbing I put small amounts down. I started syringe feeding but then read they suck so this has been working well. Suggestions? And suggestions on what to tell my friends?

Thanks SO much! WIll check back to see if there's any helpa bout crop.

Denise


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denise, I've sent a few members that I see on line that can give you some advice a private message........so hang on..............


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denise, I know that you can try giving them a small bit of baby applesauce and this might get things moving again. Also a small amount of plain yogurt mixed in the formula will help them digest the food better. Just don't feed any more until this is resolved. The warm water should help too...........Can you tell us where you are? It's possible that there's a member near you that could help out......especially since you're going out of town next week.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Maybe it was a tad too thick. Can you post a picture?

Pidgey


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

Renee,

Thanks SO much! I just edited my note, please note changes.

I decided I simply could NOT leave the bird with anyone. I've ran into issues and resolve them by going online. I know somone who has a trailer 15 minutes away from where we'll be staying and got permission to set my bird up there. I can go feed it, check on it and all, ANYTIME I NEED. WHEW!

Now I was holding the bird for about 10 minutes. The crop had gone WAY down, was massaging a bit, decided not to do water until I heard from someone here. It loves to snuggle up to my chest but I'm not 95 degrees so I put some llama wool over it. I just checked - CROP EMPTIED! It's time to feed!

I live in NH and if someone wouldn't mind my calling while on vacation if I have an issue (won't have internet!) I'd SO appreciate it.

What should I do about the food? It's time to eat! I think I'll do between the two, not runny, not so thick. SHould I always mix in yogurt? Or since it resolved, should I keep things the same?

Thank!!!!!!!!

Denise


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Denise, glad to hear the crop went down. Try the mixture about like thinnish pancake batter and maybe 1/4 tsp of yogurt. I would feed it about 8 -10 cc and check again in three hours. You can add the yogurt with every feeding. Your method sounds fine.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Denise, glad to hear the crop went down. Try the mixture about like thinnish pancake batter and maybe 1/4 tsp of yogurt. I would feed it about 8 -10 cc and check again in three hours. You can add the yogurt with every feeding. Your method sounds fine.


What ratio of formula/water would you recommend?

Thanks!
Denise


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It'll be a few hours before Maggie logs back on so check back tomorrow morning (Eastern Time Zone).

Pidgey


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*I hope my baby is ok!*

My post below stated the slow down of the crop after I thickened the formula. I now have it like a watery pancake consistency and still, I fed it 7 cc at 4:00 a.m. and it's now 1:42 p.m. and while the crop will likely be emptied in an hour, I'm concerned that it's only getting 3 feedings a day. SHould I be?

I will be adding 1/4 tsp of plain yogurt with next feeding. I also bought baby applesauce. 

The baby is 8 days old, I've been feeding it for 5 days. I started at 3cc and now am up to 7 - 8 cc. If it gets 24 cc per day, is that enough?

One last thing! The feathers are coming in. I usually keep the cage (10 gallon fish tank) at 95 degrees. When do I start to cool it down since the feathers are coming in?

Thanks SO much! I don't want to do anything wrong! I love this little fella!!! 

Denise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

It sounds like you're doing a great job with your baby.I would say that feeding only 3 times a day is a little less than optimum. I would recommend you try feeding approx. every 4 hours. That of course depends on how the crop is emptying. You can increase the amount of food, however as you feed more you must pay close attention not to overload the crop. Over feeding can be a problem. You have to try and find a happy medium.

I'm sorry I missed your previous posts. How old is your baby??? Can you post any pictures???? We all love baby pictures on this forum. 

Isn't it amazing how quickly you become attached and in love with these precious little creatures.

Regards,
Louise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

I can't feed it any sooner as the crop isn't emptied all the way. I fed 8cc which included 1/4 tsp of yogurt.

I have pictures from the day he was hatched and will take new one today. I just fed him half an hour ago.

I'm SO nervous something will happen to him! I have had so much bad news this week, and if something happens to this baby I'm afraid it will just be too traumatic! 

I will wait for my husband to return so we can post pictures.

I will be so nervous to not have internet when I go away for 4 days! I hope I have no emergencies! I'm taking him with me, which I'm THRILLED about. I almost wanted to cancel vacation, which wouldn't be fair to hubby and kids! 

Denise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*Bedding*

what do you use with baby doves? I bought Carefresh pet bedding but after reading about splay leg I'm thinking I should get corn cob?

Thanks,
Denise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

Please don't be so nervous. You are causing yourself undue stress. You are doing a fantastic job with your baby. He is thriving!!!! These littlie babies are quite resilient and survive in much worse conditions than yours is in now.
This baby is enjoying "The Good Life". Your are doing your best and it is working.

As far as the bedding is concerned. Most of us raising babies just use towelling over a heating pad on the low setting. The biggest concern to have when they are very little is keeping their body temperature stable. Don't worry about the bedding material until he is older. 

Regards,
Louise


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I have never liked the small particle nest material, no matter what it is made from. Too easy for the birds to ingest some, especially curious babies. If you are looking for an acceptable and inexpensive nesting material, you might like my friend Michele's idea for her house pijies. She ''harvests'' a good sized branch from her friend's pine tree.....strips all the needles.....boils them in a big pot of water...dries them and gives them a pinch at a time to the pijies.... They love them and they are disposable and replenishable .... as long as the pine tree holds out!!!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Denise, feed the baby on this schedule if you can, and if the crop is going down. Try 8 cc at each feeding: 6 am, 10 am, 2 pm, 6 pm and 10 pm. That way he will be getting 40 cc per day staggered out at four hour intervals. If the crop doesn't appear to be going down within 4 hours, redo the schedule and drop one feeding and go 5 hours between each one.

You can make the formula a bit thicker than you described but continue adding in the yogurt. You should, in a few days, be able to feed it about 12-15 cc, 3 times a day.

He should be fine on your trip. We took a newborn to the beach with us one time and I had a hot water bottle in case it needed it but I wound up holding it in my lap for the 3 hour trip, in a soft towel and she did just fine.

Warm food, warm bed and a crop that empties usually equals a happy, healthy baby pigeon.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

Unfortunately, I don't have a heating pad but am using a heat lamp. I also have a digital thermometer with a probe I put in his little nest bowl to make sure the temp is 95 at all times. I saw the light shouldn't directly shine on baby so I tried several things, which made temp go down too far, so now I use one layer of a napkin to make a tent. I can peer in, he peers out, and the heat can go through the thin napkin. 

I agree I'm stressing myself out, I just can't lose another animal this week. I lost a chicken who had a personality like a dog. She was at my side all day long. She'd call out to me when I was outside, would rest under my deck and watch me swim, etc. SHe responded to her name like a dog. I can't bare the thought of something happening to my little dove!

I'm trying not to get too worked up. 

Denise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

Hhmmmmmmm...... what about hay? can't be boiled, but....

I like the sound of the pines. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow. I'm simply too tired today. Besides, I'm cuddling with my baby dove and don't want to stop. 

Denise


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

I give my doves long grasses, we don't fertilize or spray, and cut lengths of orchard grass. They love it because its soft enough for them to fit it into their nest, the babies do well in it and I can through it out in the mulch.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Any pigeon or dove could do worse than tobacco stems, too. We used them first when one of the birds developed a strange patch like her feathers were rotting. Although I could not actually find any observable mites, no-one could come up with any other explanation. After a while, she regrew her feathers - where she would be brooding - and we never had any more problems. The tobacco stems are quite sturdy and also repel mites.

John


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

It sounds like you're doing a great job. It's always a scary feeling, not knowing if you're doing exactly right, and being responsible for a life.  Just keep doing what you're doing. You might cool it off to around 90, I keep mine at around 85-90 at that age. He should be just fine on your trip, he probably won't know the difference.  I find keeping my babies in a big, tall-sided, plastic storage tub, the kind you put holiday decorations in with the plastic lid that snaps on. Of course, I don't use the lid. I personally didn't like using a heat lamp and much preferred the less worrisome (to me, at least) heating pad set on low. For bedding, I just use regular bath towels, cut up into pieces to fit the tub. Of course, that makes for a lot of extra laundry as babies are so messy.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

You are doing a *wonderfu*l job with this baby. You are past the first week, which is the most precarious. With each day he should have more ability to regulate his own temp and the extra heat won't be that critical. I have a rehabber friend who takes all kinds of baby birds on trips when she has to go somewhere. Everything but baby crows. They are hard to conceal in a hotel room cause they squawk so loud, and often!

I know what you mean though about being anxious that you are doing everything right. I've gone through a lot of Maalox in my time.(for me, not the pidgie)

Margaret


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

the problem with my feeding is that I can't feed it at sooner intervals because the crop isn't emptying. So I go about 6 hours between feedings, and I'm afraid to overfeed, so I give 8cc 3 x daily, so he's only getting 24 cc of food.

My sons just reminded me of a kayak trip I promised them tomorrow. I'm going to feed it before we leave and get home within 6 hours. If I wait 4 - 5 hours before I feed it JUST TOMORROW and there's still some food in the crop, will that be ok just that once? There shouldn't be much in the crop at that time. Like I said, I wait 6 hours and that's when the crop fully empties. We're meeting friends at a certain time, and I'm afraid there may be 4.5 - 5 hours between one feed and there may be some food in it. Will that be ok?

What color should the poops be? His are a brownish greenish with white and don't look much different, dried, than an adult dove.

The baby just jumped out of the nesting bowl so now I can't regulate the temp as well. I've got the heat light going closer to one side. Will it know to move to the light to keep warm? To move away when too warm? And now that it's moving around I can't shelter it from the light. Will it dehydrate? Do I need to put water in?

I just need to get through tomorrow's kayak trip. Then I should be fine. I won't leave it more than 6 hours.

Denise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi 
Denise,

Your baby will be fine if left for six hours. Don't stress. You are doing a great
job with him. 


Regards,
Louise


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## kippermom (Jan 11, 2006)

I also use timothy hay with the tobacco stems...it is softer...


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

lwerden said:


> Hi
> Denise,
> 
> Your baby will be fine if left for six hours. Don't stress. You are doing a great
> ...


Agreed!!! He'll be absolutely fine for six hours, don't worry, even if you run a bit over. Don't let it shadow your day. . .I'm speaking from personal experience. When I was feeding Azzy and the littler babies, we went to a friend's birthday celebration, and the whole time I fretted that they were home being hungry. Needless to say, we left early and it kind of ruined the night as that was all I could think about. Of course, when I got home, the babies were perfectly fine and not even acting crazily starved, go figure . Now I try not to stress on it, and know they'll be fine. You should try to do the same and enjoy the trip.


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## kingsley hannah (Jan 9, 2008)

the pine needles i have been told also repel mites i have in the past used them straight of the ground (they were dry) why would you boil them??????? i haven't tried this with my pigies but Eucalyptus leaves also repel mites and flies i used these for finches canary's and quail so i don't imagine they could halm a pigie


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

kingsley hannah said:


> the pine needles i have been told also repel mites i have in the past used them straight of the ground (they were dry) why would you boil them??????? i haven't tried this with my pigies but Eucalyptus leaves also repel mites and flies i used these for finches canary's and quail so i don't imagine they could halm a pigie


Kingsley.....because New jersey has a lot of pollution in the air and to kill insects & their eggs. People even scrub with soapy water, rinse and then BAKE, in the oven, any tree branch they choose to use in their indoor cages.


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

aren't pine needles prickly?


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Not at all, Gladys. Pine needles are the very long needles on an evergreen tree, the really prickly ones are the short needles like on the spruce.


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Thank you little bird, I always wondered about it, in fact everytime somebody mentions pine needles. Gladys


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I've used various things, but pine needles are my pigeons' favorite. I gather them at a local park. I try to find a clean patch where there hasn't been too much foot traffic and there's no litter. Haven't had any problems. I've also used tobacco stems and sometimes order them from the pigeon supply houses during cold, rainy weather when it's too wet to gather pine needles.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*This can't be right.....*

I'm really trying to get a feeding schedule for my little baby dove. I fed it 10 or 12 cc at 7:30 and here it is, FOURTEEN HOURS LATER and I'm just getting ready to feed it again. It seems that I can count on his crop emptying around 1cc an hour. So he's getting NOWHERE NEAR the amount of formula he needs. I'm going to give him another 12 cc shortly.

I'm mixing the yogurt with the formula. His poops seem normal, his crop does empty. He's growing beautifully. This is my first time doing this, but all seems well. Why can't he eat more? I don't want to feed him until his crop empties, so I've waited all this time and finally it's time to eat.

I'm concerned!

Also, he's now 10 days old and feathers are really filling in. How hot should I keep his cage? When do I turn off the heat source?

Thanks,
Denise


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Denise...the rule is, never feed until the crop is empty. I'm wondering if you are feeding too much to begin with.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

today is the first time that I fed him 10 or 12 cc. I was feeding 8 cc every 8 hours before. I increased the amount because someone posted that I should feed 8 cc every 5 hours, making 40 cc per day, which is why I increased the amount. But he still can't eat more because it takes longer to empty out his crop!


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*picture of my baby*

he likes to snuggle into this bunny. (S)he especially likes to hide his/her head.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think you started feeding too much too soon. With a baby pigeon, for example, I start with 1cc per feeding and as the baby grows, I increase the amount of formula I am feeding as well as the thickness. 40cc per day would be the amount of formula a much bigger baby would be consuming.
I think you need to go bak to 6 ccs per feeding and see how that goes. It could be that with this larger feeding, the crop is stretched out and you MAY need to make a little crop bra to lift it up so it will empty so you need to keep an eye out for that. It's easy to remedy.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

he's only had one feeding that large, so I'll back it down.

How can I tell if the crop is stretched? I don't think it is as I haven't noted any changes at all.

Thanks 
Denise


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If the crop is stretched out, it will hang a bit and never be as tight as it is when empty. It's also difficult for all the food to empty from the crop because it gets trapped in the stretched out part. I think you will recognize it if that happens.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*when do we stop the heat light?*

My baby is 11 days old and feathers are coming in beautifully. You can see the picture I posted a day or two ago. I just tried to upload a new one but something didn't work.

thanks,
Denise


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denisemomof4 said:


> My baby is 11 days old and feathers are coming in beautifully. You can see the picture I posted a day or two ago. I just tried to upload a new one but something didn't work.
> 
> thanks,
> Denise


I wouldn't worry about heat now. If he was with his parents, they surely wouldn't be sitting on him. Keep his bunny to snuggle with and he'll be just fine now.
Heat is really for tiny unfeathered babies and sick birds.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*I'm REALLY frustrated*

If you were me, would you just accept that your 11 day old dove is not eating more than 24 cc of formula per day? I don't know what to do anymore. I'm going to stick to 8 cc 3 x per day and hope for the best.

Is it normal for a bird of this age to simply sleep all the time? Now that feathers are in and it's looking more like a little bird I was hoping for at least a little more activity. I'm wondering if mine's not perky and active because it's not eating enough.

Then again, I can't feed it until the crop has emptied.

Has ANYONE else experienced this?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denise.........calm down sweetie. That's a baby you're talking about. Babies sleep..........and eat...........and poop..........and sleep some more. Give the little one another week, week and a half, and he'll be squealing and following you around and you simply fall in love with it all over again. 
As far as feeding..........I can't tell you how MUCH to feed and others can give you thier best guess/estimate, but you're there with the baby. If he's got food in his crop and it's passing through ok, then he's not hungry till his crop empties..........you've gotten him this far and he looks GOOD in the pictures. Just keep doing what you are doing. Looks like you're doing a good job to me.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

8 cc three times daily sounds pretty good to me for a ringneck dove youngster. A pigeon baby of a like age would be eating a lot more, but a pigeon baby is a lot bigger bird with a much larger crop capacity. 

At 11 days old, the little dove should be showing signs of excitement .. wing twitching, peeping, turning circles when it spots you for feeding time. If it not doing any of those things, then perhaps we have a health problem.

When left alone at this age, they do sleep a lot.

I'm guessing that all is well with your little one, but it's good that you are keeping a close eye on things.

Terry


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## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

You might want to check out the Resource section for "Hand Feeding a Pigeon from Day One" I successfully raised a baby last year and if I recall these are the instructions I followed.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

my baby dove ate 8 cc of formula w/yogurt 10 hours ago, and his crop STILL hasn't emptied enough to eat. I'm going to forgo the yogurt next feeding and add organic baby applesauce instead to see what that does.

I'm getting REAL concerned. When I took him out and placed him on a towel, he just sat there and eventually closed his eyes.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

You posted some pictures. Got any way to post a video? Maybe if we could see how he's acting........we could determine better what, if anything, is going on.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

I can do that if it's similar to posting pics. I have a video section on my camera.

SHould I post pictures of him out of his cage, or him/her (I hate calling it either, and hate even more calling it IT) getting ready to eat? It's finally time to feed!

I'll check before I feed.....

Denise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*think it's not going well*

i took pictures of the crop after feeding but can't get the browser to see them. They're there in my picture file.

I fed the baby and although it was very energetic while feeding, it just sat afterward.

I'm SO sad and preparing myself. I don't think it looks good. It's 11 days old and it hasn't walked yet. Is this normal? It's scooted a bit but hasn't walked.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

It is probably ok. And after it ate it may just be satified. No at 11 days some will get up a litlle others will sit more But in say a week it should be getting up more not really walking alot . When it seem droppy eyed and just sickly then you need to worry more. doe it seem active and hungry most often.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

it's always anxious to eat and was chirping and more "chipper" a couple of days ago, but now it seems sleepy. Then again, it can't have much energy after not eating much today. But it's not active at all.

I just fed it 8 cc w/apple sauce and turned the heat light back on. I'm going to try to keep it at 90 and continue to monitor.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

I don't know that much about doves,but I can tell you that when my baby piegon was that age, he would be very energetic when I first started to feed him, but by the time he was almost full he would just lay down and close his eyes like he wanted to sleep. He really didn't start to walk around until he was between 2 & 3 weeks old. At the age of your bird, I would just put my baby back in his box and he would usually remain in the same spot, except to stand up and poop maybe just a few paces from where I left him. When he would start to get hungry again then he would start peeping until I went and picked him up for another feeding.

The behavior you are describing I don't think is at all abnormal for a bird his age.

I know you just recently lost your beloved chicken and you are so afraid of loosing this one too. I really don't believe that is going to happen with your baby.

You have come this far with this baby and have done a great job.

Give the baby time to grow and you'll see he will be just fine.

Regards,
Louise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

I am worrying too much, I'm sorry. It's just been too much loss and sadness lately. I've lost two pets (potbelly pig and chicken) and had my horse go blind in one eye in the past two months. And also, I will be losing my father all too soon (he's 66) and my mother was hospitalized and near death in the past two months. I guess I'm just afraid...... but when the little fella goes from chirping and looking chipper to totally sleeping, I can't help myself. 

I turned the heat light back on and came down to check on him and he was trying to preen.  All this while I try to pack for vacation.

Siiiiiigh.

I just want someone to GUARANTEE me he'll be fine! 

I owe you all a HUGE THANKS for your patience with me. 

Denise


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time! I will be sure to remember you in my thoughts and prayers, and your family. Any loss is hard to bear, but especially when it's the loss of more than one. It sounds like your baby is just fine; they usually get sleepy after eating, and the peeping sounds encouraging. With mine, they each had a day here and there when they just didn't seem to have such an appetite as usual, but were fine for later feedings. Try not to worry and just keep doing the best you can.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Denisemomof4 said:


> my baby dove ate 8 cc of formula w/yogurt 10 hours ago, and his crop STILL hasn't emptied enough to eat. I'm going to forgo the yogurt next feeding and add organic baby applesauce instead to see what that does.
> 
> I'm getting REAL concerned. When I took him out and placed him on a towel, he just sat there and eventually closed his eyes.


That's way too long for the crop to empty, Denise. No more food until the crop empties. You can feed some of the applesauce or some apple cider vinegar water or some baking soda water .. only one not all three or a combination. Then wait for the crop to empty. You are correct to be concerned .. 10 hours is way too long .. should be 2-3 hours at the outside.

Terry


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi Denise,

Wanted to check in - see how your little one is doing today. 

I also did a little digging around - we have a few members in NH that you could send a PM to in case you need some nearby assistance. I also found a few recommended vets.

Hope you don't wind up needing this info., but in case you do - hope it's helpful 

*Amoonswirl *(Karen) provided this info.: There's a great Avian specialist at the Merrimack Veterinary Hospital in Merrimack, NH - Dr. Chmiel:
http://www.merrimackvet.com/bios/chmiel.htm
The Hospital:
http://www.merrimackvet.com/

*Charis *has contact info. for an avian vet in Weare, NH

*Msfreebird* is a vet tech (resides in Northwood, NH - between Concord and Portsmouth) -- works at Piscataqua Animal Hospital in Kittery, Maine. Has also worked for and recommends Dr. Anthony Guerino, Animal Medical Center, Portsmouth, NH 603-436-4922

*pigeonperson* provided this link for a list of avian vets in New Hampshire. 
http://aav.org/vet-lookup/locate-vet2.php?query_field=state&search_string=NH

*Pixy *is in Franklin, NH

*xxmoxiexx* -- Has info. for a Dr. Sager - Sager Animal Hospital. Sounds like he sees a lot of racing pigeons, and is very good with all wildlife, doesnt even charge you, you can give a donation, which i did because i was so grateful to find someone finally! Now, if it is your pet, i assume full charges will apply, wildlife only is based on a donation...


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

Just thought I would check in with you.

How is your baby thismorning?????

Louise


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Denisemomof4 said:


> I am worrying too much, I'm sorry. It's just been too much loss and sadness lately. I've lost two pets (potbelly pig and chicken) and had my horse go blind in one eye in the past two months. And also, I will be losing my father all too soon (he's 66) and my mother was hospitalized and near death in the past two months. I guess I'm just afraid...... but when the little fella goes from chirping and looking chipper to totally sleeping, I can't help myself.


Denise...you are carrying a very heavy load and this baby sound like it is growing just fine. You're doing great....take a deep breath..... just take it day by day....


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

Just thought I would check in with you.

How is the baby thismorning????

Regards,
Louise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*things better today*

I just read the other responses - and again, THANKS SO MUCH. If I run into problems while we're away, I'll have people to call now. Thanks SO much for listing NH resources.

I have to say, the baby is doing MUCH BETTER today. I have the heat light on, set at 88. I fed 8 cc mixed with a LITTLE water and applesauce and 4 hours later his crop has gone way down. I think the applesauce will work better than yogurt. If I give apple cider vinegar or baking soda, how much water and how much of the other?

I definitely think baby will be ready to eat 8 hours after last feeding. He'll get 3 8cc feedings today, which is what he was doing all along. He just had an "off" day yesterday. He's chipper today, moving around, cleaning himself, etc. I feel much better today.

Although I can say he NEVER emptied his crop in 2 - 3 hours. That doesn't make sense to me. I couldn't feed him 8 cc every 2 - 3 hours!

Thanks SO much!
Denise


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad the baby is doing better.

I think the most important things to remember is keep baby warm and have formula warm, not too thick, and make sure crop is empty before each meal.

Applesauce has digestive enzyme (pectin) in it that enables better digestion, probiotics provide the good gut bacteria birds need for first line defense against bad bacteria. I think a drop of apple cider is okay to add to the formula, and if the formula doesn't have any probiotics, add just a pinch. ACV provides an excellent environment for good gut bacteria to thrive, whereas probiotics provide the bacteria itself.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Denise, I would not give the baby baking soda right now.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Denise - I'm so glad to hear s/he's more lively today and seems to be doing so much better  You are doing a fantastic job!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Denise,

I didn't realize there are quite a few threads going on here in regards to this youngster.

It would be beneficial and less confusing if you could please keep one thread going per topic, as one thread will give everyone the history needed to assess and answer your immediate needs. 

I will go ahead and combine all threads on this youngster. 

Thank you.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

You have my phone numbers. If you run into any problems while you're away, please call me. I can relay them the experienced members here and get you some answers. It is also OK to call if you just need to talk.

Enjoy your vacation!!!!
\
Regards,
Louise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

*when to wean?*

I don't know if I should have this in my other post, please move if necessary.

I'm extremely pressed for time as I just got back from vacation and spent the day in the hospital with my ailing father. He will be in the hospital for weeks if he makes it and I won't have time for research for my baby dove. I actually had to give my hubby a rushed lesson on syringe feeding today and enjoyed the updates. Hubby is really taken to the little fella.  Can someone please either tell me what to do/expect or where to find the following information:

My dove is 16 days old and is up to 10 cc 3 x per day. When do I introduce seed? When do I give water? Should it have water between feedings now? When do I lose the heat source? How old will it be before it's on an all seed diet?

Any and all information you can shar ewill be deeply appreciated. I'm so pressed for time and need to log off now for a few hours sleep.

Louise, thanks SO MUCH for your phone number. I'm glad I have it in email..... I don't think I can lose it. 

Denise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

Glad to hear you vacation went well. So sorry to hear about your Dad. I pray all goes well for him.

The weaning process will take a little bit of time. It is not an automatic process but more of a gradual process of introducing seed and cutting back on the hand feeding a little bit at a time.

I was originally hand feeding my bird every four to five hours. During each of the feedings AT ABOUT 3 WEEKS OLD I would but a few seeds directly into his beak and he would swallow. Then I put a some seeds in a small dish and pecked at it with my fingers and placed his beak into the dish. Little by little he got the hang of it. I cut back the hand feeding to just morning and night as he was eating seeds on his own during the day. I then cut back to only 1 handfeeding a day ultil one day on his own he refused the formula. Getting him to drink on his own is a similar process, just try dipping his beak into a samll dish of water. Go carefully with this, you don't want to put the beak in below the nostrils. The water has to be deep enough for him suck the water in as piegons drink with their beaks like you would be using a straw.

Unfortunately this process takes time and patience.

Hang in there.

Regards,
Louise


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

A quick but not detailed response:

If you peck the seeds with your finger, you can teach your squeaker to eat on its own. Small seeds at first. 

As long as your pigeon is gaining weight and making nice poops, and the feathers get longer every day, and the crop does not stay full all the time (empties between feedings) he should be okay.

Watch for splayed leg. Needs to have a surface he can hld onto with his feet. Some pigeon fanciers put a rock into the nest or nearby (the equivalent of a sibling squeaker) to push against, for good muscle development.

My first rescue of two baby chicks: *Chcolate* died after 13 days with abdominal distress, weighed 45 grams (1 ounce = 28.5 grams), possibly sour crop. I had kept his crop packed full. He/she was about 16-20 days old at time of death.

His nest-mate, *Vanilla/Pidgepoo,* grew up with a left foot turned outwards at a 45-degree from his body, and had to walk with a bit of a squat. 

When they start eating on their own, they will still need supplementary feeding, and will insist on it, usually. At one point after he could pick up seeds, Pidgiepoo refused to be hand-fed. Would rn away from me. That is the ideal time to stop feeding, in my opinion. 

I've probably left something out. But, a quick answer.

If he gets a good morning and evening feeding, I wouldn't panic about it if he seems healthy otherwise. He should flap his wings with enthusiasm before and during eating. This indicates to the parent bird that the squeaker is thriving and they will continue to feed. Also make sure he can get about or at least move about some on his legs. 

When the pigeon has enough feathering to maintain body heat, when he feels relatively heavy ("fat and happy"), the parents start spending time away from the nest. Makes the baby curious and wary about the world around them. When the parent gives a danger signal, like a "hegh," the baby should look for what the parent is alarming them about. (I have tried giving a danger call, without success. Maybe they hear something I don't hear, and cannot therefore reproduce). 

It's a good idea to do the seed pecking with your finger as soon as they can observe you. Let's them know not all food comes from the parent's mouth. Probably parent doesn't show them too early, so they don't eat something bad. Parent also shows them wha is good to eat in the field after they leave the nest. They learn much by observing.

If you briefly dip their beaks into water, they catch on pretty quick. They like the taste of clean water. Then you merely control the appearance and frequency of the poops to make sure they are hydrated and growing. The baby pigeon Chocolate didn't have much of an appetite the day before he died. If your pigeon loses his appetite, doesn't eat much, it's a bad sign (especially if he hasn't eaten any available seeds, to your knowledge). I went to the local community senior citizens' internet cafe on Thursday, May 14th 2004, at 3 P.M for three hours worth of research on pigeon.com (now pigeon-life.net), and Chocolate seemed healthy when I left (maybe a bit listless, not sure if I recall correctly) but with little appetite. Read about sour crop, among other things. When I returned at 6 P.M. my wife was crying, said Chocolate was dying. He was thrashing around with his head, in agony. I gave him some crushed cipro with a pipette, which he regurgitated or threw up a few seconds later. Thought I might kill him with the dosage, and was probably too late with meds anyway, but was trying any last minute desperate measure. He pecked me gently on the hand, either as an acknowledgment or thank you, or as a reprimand, and died a half hour after I came home. 

How much does your pigeon weigh? A daily weighing with an inexpensive digital kitchen scale (reading in grams, or fractions of an ounce) can put your mind at ease and help you detect daily changes you might be unaware of otherwise. I always weighed before the first feeding or meal of the morning, and weighed later in the day to determine maximum weight (f he went up but never down on the weight, it would indicate something). And I kept a daily log. Sometimes things which I would not note otherwise, or would forget, would take on significance later on when discussing with others. hat's why nurses in hospitals monitor and take notes.

Oh yes. Hope all goes well for your father. Tell him you can force feed him if necessary, since you learned how to do it with a bird. Might be good for him, to have a laugh.

Larry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denisemomof4 said:


> I don't know if I should have this in my other post, please move if necessary.
> 
> I'm extremely pressed for time as I just got back from vacation and spent the day in the hospital with my ailing father. He will be in the hospital for weeks if he makes it and I won't have time for research for my baby dove. I actually had to give my hubby a rushed lesson on syringe feeding today and enjoyed the updates. Hubby is really taken to the little fella.  Can someone please either tell me what to do/expect or where to find the following information:
> 
> ...


Denise, you can introduce seeds to this little one any time now. I've had babies self feeding at 16 days. That's not the NORM,,,,,,,but I have done it. Put a few seeds in his mouth and let him swallow. Keep a bowl of seeds in front of him. Swish them around with your fingers to get his attention. It will take a little while for him to figure out how to pick them up and swallow, but he'll get it eventually. Keep giving the Kaytee.............I usually give them a dozen seeds or so before I give the Kaytee......just to get them used to the taste and feel of seeds. You can do the same thing with water. Play in it and get his attention. Drop a few seeds in the water. He'll try to peck at the seeds and realize there's water there and take a drink. Once he takes a drink, he'll be good to go as far as water. You will have to "remind" him to drink, but once shown the water, he should take a drink every time. Hope this helps. Sorry to hear about you dad. Hope all is well with him.
PS: You can do away with the heat. He'll be fine now. Just give him something to cuddle with.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi Denise,

Wanted to check in and see how your dove was doing...

I also wanted to check and see if your Dad is doing better - I know having him in the hospital so sick is so upsetting. I've been, and will continue to, include healthy thoughts and prayers for him.


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

thanks everyone. I don't know what I would have done without this forum.

I started to introduce seed to my bird a couple of days ago. I pecked around with my finger and took tiny spoons of seed and placed it in his mouth with water. I notice he pecks around a bit during the day but is not eating it today, where he was yesterday. I continue the formula feedings in the evening and morning and help him to eat seed during the day.

He's doing fantastic! He wants to fly and climb. Time to get a cage.  I don't think we would have done so well without all of you here, and I can't say enough how grateful I am.

Dad passed away peacefully on Tuesday morning, less than 12 hours after we found out he had a HUGE cancerous mass in his chest cavity. I don't understand how it was missed as he's had several x-rays for pneumonia. But I'm glad his suffering is over.

I will spend some time trying to feed my little one seed today. He picked a bit yesterday and the seed was in his crop, today he's only pushing the seed around. I bought parakeet mix for now but seriously considered finch. When he's bigger I'll switch to pigeon food.

I don't think he's tried to get ANY water at all, and when I place his beak in some he's not sure what to do. I assume it will all take time. 

Thanks again to you all,
Denise


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Sorry to hear of the passing of your father, Denise. My condolences.

Hopefully all continues to go well with your little pigeon.

Larry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about your fathers passing. My heartfelt condolences goes out to you during this time and I ask God to bless and watch over you during your time of need.

If you keep working at giving him seeds and coaxing his interest as often as possible, it will be a matter of time when he is weaned, consistency is important.

Thank you for your wonderful care of your little pigeon.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh Denise - I am sooooo very sorry to hear your Dad passed away. You must still be in shock; even knowing he did not need to suffer very long. There are no words that will make it any easier to accept but know that many are thinking of you and sending you comforting hugs (even if only via a computer screen). 

I'm glad you have your little feathered baby to give you such a bright spot right now! Certainly gives you something to smile about I'm sure. Sounds like s/he's making good progress too  I started my Hope with the smaller seeds (like you have in the parakeet mix) - I used canary mix but I think they may be similar. After he got "hooked" on the seeds I trained him to drink water by putting some seeds in the bottom of the water dish. Idea being that he's have to put his whole beek in to get the seeds. After that he picked up drinking the water. Really does sound like you're doing wonderful with him/her 

My condolences to you and everyone in your family {{{hugs}}}


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I am so sorry Denise to hear of your Dad passing away. My heartfelt condolences to you and your entire famiily.

So glad to hear your little bird is doing so well now. I know it's been a struggle for you, but you have certainly done a great job. Give him a little more time and I am sure he will be fully weaned before you know it.

Again, so sorry about your Dad.

Regards,
Louise


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

My heartfelt condolences as well...I am sorry. Hang in there.


I haven't read this entire thread, but I have found that for weaning....pigeons often like safflower seed.....they tend to peck at it more than some other types....


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Denise, I am so very sorry about the passing of your father. God bless.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denise, very sorry to hear of your father passing. It's good to know that he did so peacefully and didn't have prolonged suffering. 
Your little birdie will bring you some comfort. Sounds like it's doing really good. No name yet? I can't come up with a name for mine either. Well, got a few, but no definites yet.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Denise, I am so very sorry for the loss of your father. My heartfelt condolences are going out to you and your family.

Continued good luck with your little bird!

Terry


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

I've named my little dove Skeeter  and although he's doing FANTASTIC, he's still not eating seed! I give him an afternoon feeding when I'm home and will only give him seed during that feeding. When I'm not home, he'll only get fed twice per day around 12 cc of formula. I've tried pecking with my finger over and over in front of him, putting seed in his mouth myself, dipping his bill in water, etc. NOTHING was working so yesterday I took another dove and put it in the cage with him so he could see how to do it but he's STILL not eating unless I feed him. He doesn't even care at ALL about the other dove, only wants to spend time with me. I love it, but I want him to be able to eat and drink on his own! He'll be 4 weeks old tomorrow.

I do see him pecking and pushing the seed around but when I feel his crop there's absolutely no seed at all in there.

How old are they when they're usually off formula altogether?


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

The age of weaning to self feeding is directly proportionate to how spoiled rotten he is. You've coddled him cause he's your sweet baby so he is giving you a run for the money. Your only hope is to have more patience, he will tire of the baby food and want to eat seed..... eventually!!!


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise,

Glad to hear Skeeter is doing so well. These hand raised babies take quite a bit longer than normal baby piegons at weaning. As you said he is totally attached to you and has become fully dependent upon you for all his needs.

I started weaning Jack at about 1 month old. And it took quite a bit of time and patience to get him fully weaned. He is showing signs of starting to learn as you state he is pecking on the ground at seeds. This is how it starts. With Jack I put a piece of newspaper on the kitchen table and spread seed on it and let Jack walk around in it and peck. I was also putting seeds into his beak at the same time. I had his dish there as well and poked and played with the seeds, but it took him a long time to get the hang of it. I don't think I had Jack completely weaned until he was 6/7 weeks old. 

I would think that the best incentive to get him to eat seeds would be hunger. Why don't you try the seeds first thing in the morning before giving him any formula. Maybe his hunger will prompt him to pay more attention to the seeds.

Sounds like your Skeeter will be joining our little club. SRP (Spoiled rotton Piegon) We already have quite a few members here on PT.

Good luck and regards,
Louise


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## Denisemomof4 (Jul 25, 2008)

too late, Louise, Skeeter joined the club long ago.  I need to get him weaned, or at least eating some seed during the day, in the next two weeks. My sister and I are flying out to AZ to settle on my father's home matters in AZ out there. I can promise my husband will feed him morning and evening, but he's on his own during the day! I hope he'll be ok! But at least he won't starve. I'll only be gone 5 days.

I can say that Skeeter does NOT think he's a dove, he thinks he's a person - MY CHILD!!! 

Denise


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Denise.......

Welcome to the club. There is nothing sweeter than a spoiled rotten house piegon.

I'm sure he'll get the hang of eating the seeds on his own, especially now that you won't be around to indulge him as often. You've done a great job with him and he will be fine.

I hope all goes will for you in AZ.

Keep us posted and post some pictures when you can.

Regards,
Louise


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