# Settling



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

If a bird was born and raised at another loft, but never allowed out, is he settled to that loft? If you receive birds that are 45 days to 3-4 months old, but were never released at the old loft, is it safe to let them out to fly, and if so, how long should they be in the new loft before trying this? Thanks, Don.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

bbcdon said:


> If a bird was born and raised at another loft, but never allowed out, is he settled to that loft? If you receive birds that are 45 days to 3-4 months old, but were never released at the old loft, is it safe to let them out to fly, and if so, how long should they be in the new loft before trying this? Thanks, Don.


I sure would give them a lot of time in a settling cage before just turning them out. Let them get comfortable in your loft. Give them a bath or two, let them come and go in the settling cage etc. Then let them out nice and hungry, you should be o.k.

Dan


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thank you very much. It has been a month now, and they are in the aviary every day, just about all day. They get baths about 3 times a week, and are very pampered. My wife, who wasn't crazy about the idea about me getting pigeons, now is very attached to them and thinks they should be let out to fly, since that is what they are intended to do. I have to admit, she has me feeling guilty. They are going to be breeding, but keeping them in is bothering me also.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Let them out very hungry,very late in the day & soaking wet...OR....You can soap their wings,if you are really worried...Use liquid soap,and rub it in on the main last 4 or 5 end flights...They will not be able to fly well at all,and will not try to leave...After a week or so,let them take a bath,and the soap will be gone,and they will be able to FLY !!!...Alamo


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks for the advice, Alamo.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I wait until 30 minutes before sunset, with all new birds until they trap well with the bell. only then due I let them out earlier. Just my two cents but also do what Ace and learning said.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You have to resettle them in your loft. Get them familiar with the outside. There is no guarantee that they will stay or not get lost, but usually you are more successful resettling unflown birds. Search resettling/rehoming methods here. I wrote many already. LOL!


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

I have 7 new birds in the same situation as yours; they have been in my loft for one month and yesterday I let them out for the first time after smearing some mousse on their wings. 2 did not venture out of the loft, but the other 5 followed the veterans and hung around on the roof and took very short flights out about 20 metres or so and back. All came in at dusk...so far so good. Can I repeat it today???


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

So far so good. That is one proper way to resettle them. Basically you want to familiarize them with your surroundings by not flying far. They are supposed to stick around first, study the place, then take short flights, go inside when called or go inside when they get scared. So ,yes, you can repeat. Just make sure they don't get startled. Once they take off, make circles and comes back home for one week, then I'll say they are settled.


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## mattsmith (May 19, 2009)

I got birds that were about 5 months old from another loft which had never been out. Kept then in the loft and training cage for about two weeks then let them out. They were fine and came back no problem.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

RodSD said:


> So far so good. That is one proper way to resettle them. Basically you want to familiarize them with your surroundings by not flying far. They are supposed to stick around first, study the place, then take short flights, go inside when called or go inside when they get scared. So ,yes, you can repeat. Just make sure they don't get startled. Once they take off, make circles and comes back home for one week, then I'll say they are settled.


Well, I didn't quite repeat the process day 2: The remaining 2 birds ventured out with the others today, and all was proceeding beautifully - sunny morning, birds basking on the rooftop and my original birds plus some of the new releases taking short loft flights. I was sitting out in the sunshine with them when we were all startled by Mr Hawk swooping down at them on the rooftop and chasing them as they took shelter under my house verandah. I screamed at the hawk who was only about 3 feet away from me (don't know how useful that was!) -anyway he went off. Shortly afterwards 3 birds individually arrived from neighbouring trees, but I am still missing one bird who didn't come in last night or this morning. Ironically, he is the only one of the new releases who was born at my loft - little Godfrey who was born on Good Friday. He was the one who didn't venture out yesterday, and was very timid today. Do hope he is still hanging around somewhere scared - will go searching the surrounding area after my coffee. 
So bbcdon - just sharing my experiences, and hope you are more fortunate than me. As Rod said: Make sure they don't get startled! I'll have to have a word with Mr Hawk about that!


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

mattsmith said:


> I got birds that were about 5 months old from another loft which had never been out. Kept then in the loft and training cage for about two weeks then let them out. They were fine and came back no problem.


If the birds have never been let out prior to you having them in your loft then this is a good example of what you should do. 2-3 weeks of settling and trap training is good but some would even argue that it's too long. To be safe stick to 2 weeks and more. IMO Good luck with your birds!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

della,

Sorry to hear that. That missing bird may be in trouble if it is not yet familiar with the place. It may have gotten lost. Find it now! The hawk got my birds like that. Unfortunately the hawks I have are rather fearless. If they want to take my birds, they will wait for them 1 hour sitting on a tree. My young birds died that way. Basically the new birds were too young, naive, inexperienced.

When my baby birds got attacked like that, they went hiding all over the place. For example, I found one hiding under a bush. One was hiding inside a tree. The other ones were hiding under a table. Basically they will try to find some secret hiding spot.

I fear for the worst for Godfrey. I just hope that he is a smart bird and find some safe shelter. Check all over the place. That bird has no chance with its inexperience and even though if he is strong on the wing, I think he is still not yet fully familiar with your place to come back home unless he spent more than one hour on the roof. Only his smart will save him now.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

RodSD said:


> della,
> 
> Sorry to hear that. That missing bird may be in trouble if it is not yet familiar with the place. It may have gotten lost. Find it now! The hawk got my birds like that. Unfortunately the hawks I have are rather fearless. If they want to take my birds, they will wait for them 1 hour sitting on a tree. My young birds died that way. Basically the new birds were too young, naive, inexperienced.
> 
> ...


Great news, Godfrey is back:!! I spent an hour searching the farm, peering into every tree, but found nothing. When reporting the bad news to my husband, he scanned the large eucalypts in line of sight of the loft and saw Godfrey straight away! How I missed him, I can't imagine. Anyway, he flew back in this afternoon and ate and ate and ate... So happy to see him!! Thanks so much for the advice and concern, Rod! The others all did a couple of jaunts loft-flying for about 5-10 minutes without going out of sight and returning reliably. Dare I say it...so far so good!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

RodSD said:


> della,
> 
> Sorry to hear that. That missing bird may be in trouble if it is not yet familiar with the place. It may have gotten lost. Find it now! *The hawk got my birds like that. Unfortunately the hawks I have are rather fearless.* If they want to take my birds, they will wait for them 1 hour sitting on a tree. My young birds died that way. Basically the new birds were too young, naive, inexperienced.


I got my hawks trained. I use bottle rockets, a paintball gun, a soft pellet gun and a pump BB gun. I am Not out to kill hawks but they are not used to being attacked so any time one is nearby in a tree I shoot bottle rockets at them, if closer and flying I try to hit them with pellets or paintballs because these toy guns have full auto. If the hawk is sitting in one of my trees I hit him with a pellet pumped five to ten times depending on the distance. That is just hard enough to sting the hawk but not kill him or even break the skin.

At this point the hawks leave when I get home from work or come out into the yard. I still see one now and again but it is usually his tail feathers. Keep in mind the hawks still come around but they now see me as a threat and do not bother my birds when I am around.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

della,
Congrats! Hopefully your birds learned to be hawk aware. Your husband may have better eyesight than you. LOL! But hawks and falcons have even better eyes.

Big T,
I just make loud sound to scare them. I don't attempt anything that you mentioned. I just try to scare them, too, by running towards them making hand gestures. The hawk just look me like I am nuts and saying "whatever" in a teenager kind of way.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Big T, it is great to hear that the hawks are scared of you - well done! The only weaponry we own is real guns, and obviously I have no desire to kill the hawks; haven't heard of soft pellet guns, but will investigate. Bottle rockets could be useful, but with all hawk attacks so far I haven't actually seen the hawk before I fly the birds, even though I look. As Rod suggested, it may be that my eyes aren't all that good (truer than he realises!) but mainly I think it is that they hide well in the big eucalypts and our property is 25 acres. I gather from what you wrote that your pump action BB gun changes the velocity of the bullet depending on how many times you pump - am I right? Haven't heard of those here in Australia, - our BB gun is pump action, but it is only one pump to reload and the velocity doesn't alter. Will check your variety out, though - as long as it isn't going to do more than sting the hawk.
Thanks for all the interesting info!

Rod - I laughed at the image of you making loud noises fruitlessly at the hawks. It was a little like me screaming "aaahhh.." when mine attacked and then beating a spanner on an empty drum to tell him to stay away - all good material for a roving video camera, I bet!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

della said:


> Big T, it is great to hear that the hawks are scared of you - well done! The only weaponry we own is real guns, and obviously I have no desire to kill the hawks; haven't heard of soft pellet guns, but will investigate. Bottle rockets could be useful, but with all hawk attacks so far I haven't actually seen the hawk before I fly the birds, even though I look. As Rod suggested, it may be that my eyes aren't all that good (truer than he realises!) but mainly I think it is that they hide well in the big eucalypts and our property is 25 acres. *I gather from what you wrote that your pump action BB gun changes the velocity of the bullet depending on how many times you pump - am I right? * Haven't heard of those here in Australia, - our BB gun is pump action, but it is only one pump to reload and the velocity doesn't alter. Will check your variety out, though - as long as it isn't going to do more than sting the hawk.
> Thanks for all the interesting info!


You are correct, and I tested it using a cardboard box, If the BB bounces off cardboard then it will bounce off hawks. I also forgot the airhorn, but I only use it if the pigeons are in the loft. As for seeing the hawks your pigeons have better eyes than you do. Everytime I see a hawk it was because my pigeons spotted him first. When I am with the pigeons they watch me but if one or two are focused somewhere else then that is a threat. They see cats, dogs, hawks as threats so if one is around they will spot it. Just follow their eyes.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks for the advice Big T!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I made a mistake today. My birds were out and mister Hawk showed up quickly. I grab the airhorn and blasted it as the hawk came in for an attack. It worked, mister hawk put on the brakes and flew away in one direction, my birds flew in the other. As of tonight I am still missing eight. 

I might start using the airhorn instead of the cowbell for feeding just so the birds will get use to it. I can hear the neighbors complaining already.

Tony


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Big T said:


> I made a mistake today. My birds were out and mister Hawk showed up quickly. I grab the airhorn and blasted it as the hawk came in for an attack. It worked, mister hawk put on the brakes and flew away in one direction, my birds flew in the other. As of tonight I am still missing eight.
> 
> I might start using the airhorn instead of the cowbell for feeding just so the birds will get use to it. I can hear the neighbors complaining already.
> 
> Tony


Hope they are all back by now! Life sure is complicated with birds, huh? Mr Hawk visited me again too, and I wasn't much better prepared than before, so just banged the old petrol drum and yelled hysterically as he chased the birds for about 5 minutes. Fortunately he went off empty-taloned and fortunately they all came back in soon after he left. Have often wondered if loud scary devices might distract the pigeons too just when they need their wits about them...will have to be prepared with something today, though - he is persistent. 
A thought on the airhorn...if you use it regularly at feedtime, won't the hawk get used to the sound of it too?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Big T said:


> I made a mistake today. My birds were out and mister Hawk showed up quickly. I grab the airhorn and blasted it as the hawk came in for an attack. It worked, mister hawk put on the brakes and flew away in one direction, my birds flew in the other. As of tonight I am still missing eight.
> 
> I might start using the airhorn instead of the cowbell for feeding just so the birds will get use to it. I can hear the neighbors complaining already.
> 
> Tony


Ouch....

This ordeal with Mister Cooper is never fun. I deal with it, by not dealing with it. I feel your pain.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Great news!!! All birds are back, I knew the older birds would come home but worried about the young birds. The horn scared them and the hawk so I wasn't too worried about them becoming hawk food, just getting lost. They have been out for about a month so I guess I ready for basket training, (and horn training for next time).


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## Tennman1 (Mar 31, 2009)

Not to change the subject, but, Tony, I like the paintball idea and the pellet gun idea. It's not easy to kill a hawk, but a good thumping may make him think twice about hanging around your place. My friend that is in the funeral home business started offering dove release at his funeral home several months ago. He has a hawk that sits in a tree and picks off his birds when they return home. he's lost lots of birds. I may give him your advice. 
bbcdon, everyone here has given you good advice, listen to them, I did and I have had a great experience with my birds so far. 
Della, glad your bird came home, that's great.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Tennman1 said:


> Not to change the subject, but, *Tony, I like the paintball idea and the pellet gun idea. It's not easy to kill a hawk, but a good thumping may make him think twice about hanging around your place. * My friend that is in the funeral home business started offering dove release at his funeral home several months ago. He has a hawk that sits in a tree and picks off his birds when they return home. he's lost lots of birds. I may give him your advice.
> bbcdon, everyone here has given you good advice, listen to them, I did and I have had a great experience with my birds so far.
> Della, glad your bird came home, that's great.


Whoa !!

Hold up on them horses. Not to publicly embarrass you, but no such talk about harming any bird is permitted on this site ! We are bird lovers, at our heart and soul, and thus a fundamental principal here at PT.

First of all, you may be recommending a felony. And 2nd, it violates are principals. Please stop such comments, and no one else comment on subject.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

*Big T *- great to hear the pigeons are all back!
*Warren* -thanks for the rules refresher - think I read them at the beginning but it takes a little experience of day-to-day pigeon challenges to make them relevant and meaningful. The refresher is timely for me.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

della said:


> *Big T *- great to hear the pigeons are all back!
> *Warren* -thanks for the rules refresher - think I read them at the beginning but it takes a little experience of day-to-day pigeon challenges to make them relevant and meaningful. The refresher is timely for me.




Thank you for your help and support.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Now Warren I have not nor will not hurt a hawk. I have gone to great pains this year to study and learn hawks so I can hopefully teach them to leave my birds alone. Each and every idea from the pump BB gun, The paintball gun, soft pellet gun, bottle rockets, airhorn are ideas that startle the hawks and make them leave. Even the pump BB gun, (which used wrong can kill a bird), I took time at 20 yards and 50 yards to know exactly how many pumps would hit and bounce off cardboard but not go thru, *then I had myself shot and it doesn't hurt but it does scare the hell out of the hawk.*
I have a pair of hawks nesting about 50 yards from my yard. I even watched them mate, (that was cool). But, in the spring they kill three young birds in one day and was killing any young bird that came out of the loft. The old birds watched for them and out flew the hawks, but the young birds did not stand a chance. I had to do something and this is what I learned.

Hawks are use to attacking. They are not use to being attacked. They learn quickly that loud noises by themselves are no threat. But to include bottle rockets, BBs, soft pellets, paintballs being thrown at them is a bit scary for them and it messes with their hunt so they leave.

1 Bottle rockets are good when the hawk is sitting in a tree looking over the loft.
2 pump BB gun is good when the bottle rockets stop working.
3 Paintball gun on full auto is good when hawk is flying in circles around my yard.
4 Paintballs cost too much so the soft pellet gun on full auto is better.
5 the airhorn is loud and really freaks out the hawk but does the same for the pigeons.
6 Hawks learn quickly and reconize who is the attacker. My wife sat on the back porch reading and watch a hawk for over an hour sitting in a tree over my loft, but as soon as I came outside he flew off.

So now the hawks are trained to leave when they see me. For the most part since the about the middle of May the young birds can fly outside of the loft in the evening about an hour before dark and as long as I stay outside with them because the hawks leave them alone. But like the other day, I will be where my house blocks the hawk's view of me and they try to make a pass, but my birds warn me and I will startle the hawk and it quickly leaves. 

Now just so we understand, I tell everyone on the forum my ideas because I do not want hawks killed. I have my pigeons because I love birds, all birds, even Hawks. I do not need to know the forum rules, (glad I read them, thanks) because my heart is already there. I also understand the food chain and realize I will lose a bird to nature every now and again and I accept that. But I got to work for my food so any hawk that gets a bird of mine will have to work for it also.

One last statement:

Originally Posted by Tennman1 
Not to change the subject, but, Tony, I like the paintball idea and the pellet gun idea. *It's not easy to kill a hawk, but a good thumping may make him think twice *about hanging around your place.

When Tennman said this I do not think he was talking about killing, I hope not. I grew up with a lot of good thumpings, (hardheaded) and it has made me a better man.

God Bless and thanks for keeping us informed,

Tony

PS Warren, how's you wife's picks coming? I'm your biggest fan.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I think one of the things Warren is referring to is the fact that any form of harrasment is considered illegal. I think that if it came right down to it in a court of law, you would probably loose with the forms of deterent you refer to.

Believe me, we all feel your pain. I just don't think "big brother" would look too kindly on any form of deterent. May not be right, but it is the law.

Dan


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Hawks seem were given rights to do anything they wish with our birds. But viewing from a bigger picture, they are just doing what nature intended them to be. They are just trying to survive. It seems that hawk experience is part of pigeon keeping. In the beginning I thought that was just an anecdote until I felt the full force/brunt. The hawks even ended up loving me that we are now neighbors, literally a yard away, overlooking my loft. Did I mention in previous post that the hawk almost wiped me out last year by killing/injuring half of my birds? A young, naive, stupid bird won't survive at my place.

I was reading that treaty that protects them and apparently doves are also protected, but certainly not our homers. There are other birds besides raptors that are protected as well.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

learning said:


> I think one of the things Warren is referring to is the fact that any form of harrasment is considered illegal. I think that if it came right down to it in a court of law, you would probably loose with the forms of deterent you refer to.
> 
> Believe me, we all feel your pain. *I just don't think "big brother" would look too kindly on any form of deterent.* May not be right, but it is the law.
> 
> Dan


Just so you know, I talked with the Georgia and Federal game folks and I cannot kill or hurt the hawk which I do not. The harrasment ideas I am using came from the Georgia Biologist. The Fed talked to me about trapping and removing. Hawks mate for life. Trapping one mate and separating them is, in my mind, cruel punishment. Trust me, I do not want to break the law, they were the first people I called. Bottle Rockets are the only illegal issue not because of hawks but because of Georgia's fireworks law. But they thought it was a good idea as a deterent. 

What the Biologist taught me was the hawk is a hunter and uses surprise attack on their prey. Anything that will disrupt that will cause the hawk to leave to hunt somewhere else. Like the crow and mockingbird harrassing the hawk causes him to leave my harrassing does the same.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

My personal feelings on the subject Mr. BIG T, I am keeping to myself. 

As a Moderator, I would have to ask....would using your "methods" work on those pesky neighborhood kids that sometimes walk on my front yard ? Do you think the parents and the police would look kindly on me just giving those bratty kids just a little thumping with a pellet gun or a paint ball gun ? What if you would accidently shoot an eye out ? Such discussions regardless of any good intentions, will not go over well here, or in a court room, with the SPCA or PETA, or with law enforcement charged with protecting these birds. 

You have no leg to stand on with those I mentioned, so don't even go there or try. These pages end up on the World Wide Web, so even if I feel your pain, I must enforce our forum rules. No discussion of pellet guns or paint ball guns. If you advocate their use on this thread, on birds of prey, I will have to lock up this thread to avoid further discussion. Period.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Back on the subject of settling, the settling of my young birds has been very unsettling for my loft as a whole. 2 days ago little Godrey got a fright when a Kookaburra swooped while they were loft flying and didn't come in until the next morning. That would have been O.K except he must have come in and landed on the ground before light and was attacked by one of my terriers (now in disgrace). He is sporting a maul wound under one wing which I am treating with antibiotics. Then yesterday a peregrine falcon swooped my birds and Alabaster, my previously settled alpha male, didn't come in last night even though I thought the falcon hadn't flown off with anyone. This morning (with dogs locked up) he came in sporting rake marks down the side of his neck which I am now also treating with antibiotics. Think we might have a little break from loft flying - it has been an eventful week of settling but on the plus side I haven't lost any birds yet, provided I am able to nurse Alabaster and Godfrey back to full health. They are both putting on a good front at present, which bodes well I hope. Incidentally, my newest hatchling (exactly 4 weeks old) followed the others out of the loft yesterday and flew to the rooftop with the others. I dare say the falcon attack was pretty educational for him/her, but even though I hadn't taught it to trap yet (didn't think it was ready to fly) it followed the first returnees through the drop trap like an old trooper after taking a short flight to the shed roof with them during the mayhem of the attack. 
Settling, eh? I don't feel particulary settled myself!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Birds are tough, since Alabaster and Godfrey do not have anything broken and you have the antibolics they should heal nicely with a new respect for the outside world. Puncture wounds take a little time to heal and need the antibiotics so watch them close. Lock down would be a good idea now. Baths each day with salts would also help.

Good Luck and God Bless,
Tony


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

della,
You are having a tough time. Yeah, I forgot to tell you that in Australia I think falcon is more of the problem than hawks. I only encountered falcon twice and I don't want to experience that again. Their diving speed is phenomenal. Lock your birds for now and vary your time of release. You don't want to have set patterns with predators.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

della said:


> Back on the subject of settling, the settling of my young birds has been very unsettling for my loft as a whole. 2 days ago little Godrey got a fright when a Kookaburra swooped while they were loft flying and didn't come in until the next morning. That would have been O.K except he must have come in and landed on the ground before light and was attacked by one of my terriers (now in disgrace). He is sporting a maul wound under one wing which I am treating with antibiotics. Then yesterday a peregrine falcon swooped my birds and Alabaster, my previously settled alpha male, didn't come in last night even though I thought the falcon hadn't flown off with anyone. This morning (with dogs locked up) he came in sporting rake marks down the side of his neck which I am now also treating with antibiotics. Think we might have a little break from loft flying - it has been an eventful week of settling but on the plus side I haven't lost any birds yet, provided I am able to nurse Alabaster and Godfrey back to full health. They are both putting on a good front at present, which bodes well I hope. Incidentally, my newest hatchling (exactly 4 weeks old) followed the others out of the loft yesterday and flew to the rooftop with the others. I dare say the falcon attack was pretty educational for him/her, but even though I hadn't taught it to trap yet (didn't think it was ready to fly) it followed the first returnees through the drop trap like an old trooper after taking a short flight to the shed roof with them during the mayhem of the attack.
> Settling, eh? I don't feel particulary settled myself!


I don't know how many birds you have but one thing you might try to limit losses from being scared off the roof in an attack is to split your birds into two teams and release them on alternate days. This way if you do experience an attack, only half of your birds are effected. Just a thought.

Dan


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks Tony, Rod and Dan - your advice and support are much appreciated.
Salt baths are a good idea - thanks for the tip! Patients seem to be doing fine this morning and Alabaster is eating which is a good sign. And yes, lockdown it is! 
Rod, I read that peregrine falcons can reach a diving speed of 280km/hour! Granted, he wasn't doing that over my roof, but heck he could turn on a dime with amazing speed when tailing my birds!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2009)

just remember that where you are since its winter is going to be 10 times worse hawk & falcon wise then it is here right now being that its summer ..winter migration is the peak time for birds or prey to be preying on your pigeons looking for that easy meal ... they wont be going very far from your coop being that its an easy food source


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> just remember that where you are since its winter is going to be 10 times worse hawk & falcon wise then it is here right now being that its summer ..winter migration is the peak time for birds or prey to be preying on your pigeons looking for that easy meal ... they wont be going very far from your coop being that its an easy food source


He is right about migration in North America, but seeing as you live in the Land Down Under, wildlife adapts to the local environment. Study your birds of prey and ajust for them. Most day birds start to hunt when the sun comes up so waiting until late afternoon may help. Some stop hunting in the heat of the day so mid day might help. I do not know how the birds hunt in your area or country or know who's local and who migrates and what their patterns are. Study the birds of prey for your area, get books, call your local zoo, or government biologist, they are a great source of information. The more you know the better you can help your birds. Main thing is lockdown so Alabaster and Godfrey can heal. They may look good in a week or two but will still fly a little slow which is not safe for them so please give them the extra time to heal.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Big T said:


> He is right about migration in North America, but seeing as you live in the Land Down Under, wildlife adapts to the local environment. Study your birds of prey and ajust for them. Most day birds start to hunt when the sun comes up so waiting until late afternoon may help. Some stop hunting in the heat of the day so mid day might help. I do not know how the birds hunt in your area or country or know who's local and who migrates and what their patterns are. Study the birds of prey for your area, get books, call your local zoo, or government biologist, they are a great source of information. The more you know the better you can help your birds. Main thing is lockdown so Alabaster and Godfrey can heal. They may look good in a week or two but will still fly a little slow which is not safe for them so please give them the extra time to heal.


No, the birds of prey don't migrate here - we are just permanently stuck with our resident population. Tony, I think you may be right about waiting until late afternoon as I have observed that the attacks always come when I let them out earlier (i.e. in the morning or even 2.00-3.00 pm rather than 4.00 p.m. or later). My first attack last week was the first sunny morning after a few days of rain - silly in retrospect, as I daresay every bird in creation was out in the sunshine looking for a full belly! You are right, I am going to have to get smarter than the predators in order to give my guys a fighting chance. There is a pigeon racer in the valley behind me, though, who still does O.K. He blames the problems partly on my whites, as he purchased 17 whites a few years ago and lost all of them to hawks within a month, while they don't attack his big racing flock with anything like the same gusto. I reckon the whites are a bit of a novelty and beacon for them, but surely if they have to work too hard to get them, they'll settle for something easier. We'll see how smart I and my birds can get, huh! Meanwhile, it's lockdown for a while; timely at least, as I will be away for a few days next week and unable to fly them anyway. Thanks for the advice, guys!


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

its really not the migration of the hawks that gets you its the migration of other birds that they usually eat that makes them hungrier .. thats why your birds are more apealing cuz they are still there


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

From experience also with hawks, don't release your birds the day before or after a storm. They are so hungry after a storm and they are relentless! What a falcon does is to fly higher than your birds, then dive bomb them using gravity. Your birds either outmaneuvers them and fly really high. Unfortunately, young birds may not still have the strength or stamina to outfly them. I ended up closing my eye and started praying when I saw that falcon diving. If you believe they are fast, you should see them do it in real time. They are like rockets heading towards ground with folded wings looking like a delta jet plane.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

RodSD said:


> ...
> Big T,
> I just make loud sound to scare them. I don't attempt anything that you mentioned. I just try to scare them, too, by running towards them making hand gestures. The hawk just look me like I am nuts and saying "whatever" in a teenager kind of way.


 Rod,
I just want you to know that I spit my coffee out, laughing very hard, trying to picture a grown man running and screaming at a hawk. Now I have to clean the dang keyboards.
(Maybe I would not have laughed so hard, but I had this picture of the marines trying to take one of those hills in the movies.) I suppose I would do the same thing if I could run/walk with-out falling on my face.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

LokotaLoft said:


> its really not the migration of the hawks that gets you its the migration of other birds that they usually eat that makes them hungrier .. thats why your birds are more apealing cuz they are still there


Gotcha!  Sorry, totally misunderstood! Yeah, that makes sense now even for our situation!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

della said:


> No, the birds of prey don't migrate here - we are just permanently stuck with our resident population. Tony, I think you may be right about waiting until late afternoon as I have observed that the attacks always come when I let them out earlier (i.e. in the morning or even 2.00-3.00 pm rather than 4.00 p.m. or later). My first attack last week was the first sunny morning after a few days of rain - silly in retrospect, as I daresay every bird in creation was out in the sunshine looking for a full belly! You are right, I am going to have to get smarter than the predators in order to give my guys a fighting chance. There is a pigeon racer in the valley behind me, though, who still does O.K. He blames the problems partly on my whites, as he purchased 17 whites a few years ago and lost all of them to hawks within a month, while they don't attack his big racing flock with anything like the same gusto. I reckon the whites are a bit of a novelty and beacon for them, but surely if they have to work too hard to get them, they'll settle for something easier. We'll see how smart I and my birds can get, huh! Meanwhile, it's lockdown for a while; timely at least, as I will be away for a few days next week and unable to fly them anyway. Thanks for the advice, guys!


OK Since I am worried about you and your birds this is some information I have learned that help me and it follows forum rules, LOL... I can only talk about the Cooper's Hawk because I have a pair nesting about 500 yards away in a neighbor's back yard. But this pair is a non migrating pair so I am learning their ways so I can use that to protect my birds. These two birds are also going to be here so the more I learn the safer my birds are. 

1 In the spring I watch them fly high and in circles or calling back and forth to each other. This was mating time not hunting. What helped me here were the squirrels. As I could see the hawks flying, so could the local squirrels and the squirrels would bark to one another warning of the hawks. It is a short quick bark that the squirrel does three to four times and stops. Then another squirrel picks up the bark. If I hear this bark I do not release my birds. 

2 When this pair hunts together they're deadly. Three times I watched them take a squirrel. Hawks use surprise attack so they sit, watch, and wait. When these Cooper's hunted together they appeared to sit at different locations and hunted in between. All three times the squirrels saw one hawk and was barking when the other hawk hit them from behind. It was during this mating time I lost five young birds quickly because of my lack of knowledge and their deadly attacks. 

3 Once the eggs were laid the female no longer hunts but sits on her up to four eggs. This has helped me because Coopers lay is late April or early May here. I still see the male, (he is the smaller of the two), and he still hunts my area when I'm not around. Once the eggs hatch and the babies get larger the female will leave the nest to hunt for short distances and times. I expect her back around mid to late July. 

4 Hawks hunt regardless of weather. But in bad weather the local animals stay nested or burrowed. This make hunting more difficult and if I release my birds then they are more likely to get attacked. So the best way I plan for this is with a wild bird feeder in my yard. I never release my birds any day birds are not using my feeder or the squirrels are not out running around the trees. I also do not release them the day after. I want my hawks to have time to catch and feed before I release my birds.

5 Because I know the female is on the nest and the male is feeding them all he is hunting daily. Here the squirrels, birds, and the feeder is a great help. I always take thirty minutes just watching and listening. Remember, Hawks use surprise attack, this is why you only see them during the attack. The wild birds will avoid the feeder if they sense danger. I listen for crows, squirrels, bluejays and any other animal that will warn me of danger. I also have an open loft so I watch my birds to see if they spot anything. If the wildlife is moving and feeding and I have no sense or warning of danger It has been at least two days since bad weather that nested the wildlife. Then I release my birds. They flew today, really had a blast. They flew for about two hours and came home just before dark. So far, with a pair of hawks living about 500 yards away, I have not lost a bird in over a month.

6 When I see the female out hunting again, I know there might be up to four hungry over halfgrown babies in the nest. This means close to lockdown for me. Mid to late July till the end of August.

7 When you see a hawk chasing a bird, if the bird is level or above the hawk then it should get away. If the hawk has the high ground then it will get a chance to swipe at the bird. Hope it misses. Because they use surprise, the more open ground around your birds the better. But this works for Cooper's Hawks because they use the woods in their attack. Facons use speed and open ground, you have both. 

8 Birds use color to blend in with their surrounding. But man breeds for color that looks pretty. I only have Whites and they stand out. This makes them easier to see and attack. So the only way to make them more difficult to attack is to limit the time for that attack in the hopes that the hawks have already fed and not interested in my birds. The only way to do that is limit release times and great trap training. That is the choice we made when we got whites.

9 When the birds are ready, road training is safer for them as far as hawks go. It is hard to surprise attack a bird that is flying thur an area. The Cooper can catch them in air but gets most sitting. Also when the Cooper does catch one in the air it is because it started the attack while the bird was sitting then because it had the high ground caught the bird as it tried to get away. Trap train and road train, this way the birds get exerise, limited time outside the loft, and little time sitting on the roof or ground which makes the bird an easy prey.

Once again this is lessons learned with the local Cooper's hawk. Some of this can be used elsewhere. But the best trick is learn from the local wildlife. they live with the threat too so they can teach you and warn you when danger is around. 

God Bless,
Tony


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You are welcome UncleBuck! I should not have stopped bodybuilding. That way those hawks probably at least give me some respect. Now that I am skinny and nerdy, I can't even get respect from those hawks. I'll bet those hawks are texting their friends now.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Tony,

Thank you for the info. I have also observed that hawks are smart and patient birds. They will stay watching your birds routing and choose the weakest of them all. Those birds that died from my loft usually are the young ones. Also birds that break away from the pack is a sitting duck. One of my birds got hit like that. That bird should have stayed with the group. It was singled out. The most lethal is when your birds are trying to land with such as slow speed that a hawk then tried to swoop in. Once in the air pigeons can out speed hawks.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Tony, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed account of your valuable observations - I am blown away by your thoughtfulness! 
And there is so much there to take in and apply to my situation: a wild bird feeder is a great idea for a quick gauge of activity, and while we don't have squirrels, my husband did tell me after the last attack that he had heard the magpies giving the same warning calls they make when they think their nest might be threatened right before the falcon struck; I didn't notice this, but will need to become more observant obviously. I will cut and paste your detailed notes on my desktop so that I can digest them more thoroughly and use them as a basis for further research about my particular birds of prey.
Thanks again!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

RodSD said:


> Tony,
> 
> Thank you for the info. I have also observed that hawks are smart and patient birds. They will stay watching your birds routing and choose the weakest of them all. Those birds that died from my loft usually are the young ones. *Also birds that break away from the pack is a sitting duck*. One of my birds got hit like that. That bird should have stayed with the group. It was singled out. The most lethal is when your birds are trying to land with such as slow speed that a hawk then tried to swoop in. Once in the air pigeons can out speed hawks.


Like herds one breaks away because it is sick, old or weaker than the rest. This is why young birds are easy prey, they are weak. As for attacking your birds while landing, this is because they know the birds will always show up there, just need to wait for the chance. The hawk know there is no threat from a flapping, screaming, human just gives the hawks something to talk about over their pigeon dinner.

Good Luck,
Tony


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Della,

one last note, Some people think lock down will make the hawk go away, but it doesn't. It just hunts other animals in the same area, (unless they are migrating). Your's do not migrate so lock down is not a solution to the problem. It is just one of the many tools you have to help protect your birds. Like now, so your two birds can heal. Just know when you release them the hawks will be waiting.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Big T said:


> Della,
> 
> one last note, Some people think lock down will make the hawk go away, but it doesn't. It just hunts other animals in the same area, (unless they are migrating). Your's do not migrate so lock down is not a solution to the problem. It is just one of the many tools you have to help protect your birds. Like now, so your two birds can heal. Just know when you release them the hawks will be waiting.


Yep, and I need to do a little more homework before letting them out - instead of just thinking, 'what a nice day for flying - can I see any hawks? No, off you all go then...' (in case you are confused, the smilies represent me letting them out and then confronting a hawk attack!


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Seems I became a senior bird in there somewhere - sounds way too experienced to be me!


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