# Baby Dove - Need Help



## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi, 
I hope I am posting in the right place. I shall start from the beginning. New Orleans, La. Just to get this out there I went to Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries website to find a rehabber and unfortunately the only one in my area (within a couple hours drive) said "We take nestlings and humanely euthanize them but we will not provide care." I asked for any recommendations and they said there was no one in the area. I know I'm inexperienced but I couldn't just give up on him.

Wednesday the 5th of April a neighbor had a tree cut down and the people doing it found the nest after the fact. 
3 birds were in the nest none with their eyes opened each one slightly larger than the other. 
Since the nest was still intact we simply placed the nest on the nearest (maybe 8ft) from where the tree was.
Checked the next day, Thursday (which I now know was too long to wait) and the smallest baby died and they were very cold. We assumed at this point we needed to do something. 
Brought both remaining babies in and slowly warmed them one passed away within an hour. 
The remaining bird started to perk up he was not warm enough or alert enough for me to comfortably feed him. 

On Friday morning we were able to get Kaytee Exact and have been feeding him every 2 hours 1 part Exact 3 parts water. We are using the syringe with the tip cut off and glove over it with an X cut into it for him to put his beak. We have also kept him in his nest inside a box on top of a heating pad on low. He doesn't feel cold or warm to touch. His eyes open slightly when he feels like it and he only has tiny little feathers. I know he has to be 5 days old since he was discovered on Wed and it's Sun.

Ok, so this is where I am concerned. I weighed him on Friday night on a kitchen scale and he weighed 13g on Sat 13g today Sunday still 13g. Shouldn't he be gaining weight? Am I not feeding him enough? I am not currently forcing his beak open to fill his crop but I am letting him eat on his own this may be wrong. I also read some information about yogurt and I am considering giving him 1mL just to make sure he has some probiotics in there. 

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to give as much information as possible in order to get the most accurate help. Thanks In Advance.

PS- we call him Wobbles because of his little wobbly head. I've attached an photo of him.

EDIT #1
I'm attaching two photos of him right after he ate. This is my first time so any advice is GREATLY appreciated!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much are you feeding?
How often?
What temperature are you keeping him at?


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

I mix him 1 part Kaytee and 3 parts water it makes 4mL he normally eats 2-3cc of the 4 every 2 hours.

I keep him in his original nest in a box with a towel underneath and a heating pad under the box set on low. His temperature should be around 85F according to the thermometer I keep level with his nest.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Although mine were pigeons and not doves I used to feed until their crops felt like squishy bean bags, not tight but nice and full. I raised my five from eggs and they gained weight daily so I think he just needs more food. Thank you for taking care of him.

ETA: He needs warmth in order to digest his food properly too - at his age mine were still in the incubator at around 35c.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

FredaH 

I'm wondering if he is not eating enough since I'm not opening his beak and I'm only allowing him to eat himself. I have never done this before and am concerned about him aspirating with the for lack of better terms force feeding him. If there is a place to go to see how full his crop should be I would appreciate it. I've searched online but all the videos and photos I can find are older and larger than he is. I will also increase the temperature of his heating pad since his temp is more around 29-30C. My heating pad has 6 temperatures rather than low, med, high so I will give that a shot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The heating pad shouldn't be set above LOW, Just maybe put a cloth over him to keep heat in. Try to keep it a little closer to 90 if you can. I used a reptile emitter, that casts a nice warmth on them, but no light. I could make it warmer or cooler by raising it or lowering it closer to the fish tank that I kept the nest in. 

Is it that he will not take any more than the 2 to 3 cc ? He should be getting more.
By the time he is one week to 10 days old, he should normally be getting about 15cc.
If you don't increase it a little each day, he will not grow. Let him stop to take a breath of course, but then try to get him to take more.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think this link will help you.

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> The heating pad shouldn't be set above LOW, Just maybe put a cloth over him to keep heat in. Try to keep it a little closer to 90 if you can. I used a reptile emitter, that casts a nice warmth on them, but no light. I could make it warmer or cooler by raising it or lowering it closer to the fish tank that I kept the nest in.
> 
> Is it that he will not take any more than the 2 to 3 cc ? He should be getting more.
> By the time he is one week to 10 days old, he should normally be getting about 15cc.
> If you don't increase it a little each day, he will not grow. Let him stop to take a breath of course, but then try to get him to take more.


Jay3 will do. Since my heating pad doesn't have low, med, high but 1-6 settings I've increased it to 2 I'm assuming 1-2 is low 3-4 med and 5-6 high. I've also put a towel on top of his box to keep the heat in. The room he is in does not have central ac/heating so the ambient temp of the room is not low since its about 70F outside and there is no air blowing on him. Do you have any recommendations on getting him to eat more without force feeding? I only have a 1cc syringe to do that with and I'm concerned with aspiration. 

I posted some photos of his crop. Is that considered full? I'm also concerned with his crop not emptying all the way. I've been reading a past post about feeding help. I'm leaning towards adding some yogurt and/or apple cider vinegar or plain pedialyte to his regimen in order to help his crop to empty. Yet, I am not sure about his crop being full. I'm sorry I have so many questions I just want to make sure I'm doing right by the little guy.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I think this link will help you.
> 
> http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


The link is giving me a 404 error


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I think this link will help you.
> 
> http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


Got the link to work. Wouldn't work clicking from thread for some reason but I got it from the email notification. Thank you I'm going to read it now!


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Maybe I'm being neurotic but I can't tell in the photos about his crop =( Only because the younger bird is standing in the full one and laying in the empty one. I will continue to search through the forum. Again, sorry and thank you for any all help! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

abrunetteginger said:


> Maybe I'm being neurotic but I can't tell in the photos about his crop =( Only because the younger bird is standing in the full one and laying in the empty one. I will continue to search through the forum. Again, sorry and thank you for any all help! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!


I think you are being neurotic about the crop emptying. If you don't give him enough then he will slowly starve.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are some full crops.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are some more.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I think you are being neurotic about the crop emptying. If you don't give him enough then he will slowly starve.


I haven't been waiting for the crop to empty but I was more or less asking if the crop should be emptying. I have been feeding him every 2 hours. Based on your advice and information I read on other threads his box temperature is staying around 90F and I am making sure his formula is being served warmer than I was. He has eaten since and he is eating much better than before. I think the temperature increase has really helped.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Thank you! I don't think his crop has been getting full enough and it is most likely my fault for not having his temperatures set right. Thank you!!! Like I said he ate better than he has eaten any other feeding!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The more you feed him, the longer you can wait between feedings. It will take a bit longer for him to digest more. By a week or so, he should be eating more, but longer times between feedings. I was working when I raised my first 2 babies that were only a couple of days old. I fed them 3 or 4 times a day, and they did fine. 
Please keep a close eye on the temp, and don't let it go any higher. It's fine where it is now. Let us know how he does...............................and relax!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Meant to add that you should be waiting for the crop to empty, or at least almost empty. If not, then just wait longer to feed again.
Make sure that it does empty over night.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Meant to add that you should be waiting for the crop to empty, or at least almost empty. If not, then just wait longer to feed again.
> Make sure that it does empty over night.


How long should overnight be? I can't seem to get a definitive answer on that. Some say not more than 6 hours others say dusk to dawn. My boyfriend agrees with you on the relax bit. I feel better having alot of these questions answered especially since I now know he hasn't been eating enough.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It isn't an exact science. Over night. When I was feeding my first 6 baby rescues, 2 were only a couple of days old. I had to work. In my job, I sometimes didn't get home till 3ish. I got up early to feed them in the morning, early, before work. If I had a break where I could get home to feed them, I did. I wasn't always in the area, as I worked in different towns. And fed them first thing when I got home. Then to get in another feeding, I would feed them again around 10 pm. It all depended. I liked getting in 4 feedings, but some days could only get in 3. On the week ends, or on shorter work days, I did better. The Good Lord understood that I was doing the best I could and watched over us. Miraculously, they all made it. All 6 of them, even the 1 and 2 day olds! 
Now I'm not saying that this was ideal, but I am trying to show you that it doesn't have to be exact either. Relax! You are there and able to do better than I did. 
Did I mention that I was feeding them with an eye dropper? I found Pigeon Talk weeks later. By then, they were well on their way. I had no knowledge of pigeons and it was a learning curve. A little common sense goes a long way. And Prayer! Don't forget prayer!
You learn as you go. Feeding them as I did though, did give the crops time to empty. You need to wait a bit longer than 2 hours apart. You need to feed enough, then give them enough time to digest that amount. If they're hungry, they eat better. LOL.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> It isn't an exact science. Over night. When I was feeding my first 6 baby rescues, 2 were only a couple of days old. I had to work. In my job, I sometimes didn't get home till 3ish. I got up early to feed them in the morning, early, before work. If I had a break where I could get home to feed them, I did. I wasn't always in the area, as I worked in different towns. And fed them first thing when I got home. Then to get in another feeding, I would feed them again around 10 pm. It all depended. I liked getting in 4 feedings, but some days could only get in 3. On the week ends, or on shorter work days, I did better. The Good Lord understood that I was doing the best I could and watched over us. Miraculously, they all made it. All 6 of them, even the 1 and 2 day olds!
> Now I'm not saying that this was ideal, but I am trying to show you that it doesn't have to be exact either. Relax! You are there and able to do better than I did.
> Did I mention that I was feeding them with an eye dropper? I found Pigeon Talk weeks later. By then, they were well on their way. I had no knowledge of pigeons and it was a learning curve. A little common sense goes a long way. And Prayer! Don't forget prayer!
> You learn as you go. Feeding them as I did though, did give the crops time to empty. You need to wait a bit longer than 2 hours apart. You need to feed enough, then give them enough time to digest that amount. If they're hungry, they eat better. LOL.


So I actually wrote a long post but didn't realize I was logged out and couldn't post it. 

I have been waiting for him to let us know when he's hungry rather than feeding every 2 hours. He seems to go about 3-3.5 before he starts pecking around. I realized after some experimentation of checking the temperature, that a good way to keep the formula temperature between 102-103.5 is to swish it around in a bowl of warm water that gets refreshed from a tea kettle while he's taking a breath and I'm cleaning him up a little. It has greatly approved his enthusiasm to eat. 

I'm hoping with his box temperature raised, the formula temperature more steady, and waiting for him to be hungry will give us some results with weight gain. He occasionally opens his eyes ever so slightly which is exciting.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

abrunetteginger said:


> So I actually wrote a long post but didn't realize I was logged out and couldn't post it.
> 
> I have been waiting for him to let us know when he's hungry rather than feeding every 2 hours. He seems to go about 3-3.5 before he starts pecking around. I realized after some experimentation of checking the temperature, that a good way to keep the formula temperature between 102-103.5 is to swish it around in a bowl of warm water that gets refreshed from a tea kettle while he's taking a breath and I'm cleaning him up a little. It has greatly approved his enthusiasm to eat.
> That's how I always keep it warm. LOL. Don't ever use a microwave, as it can form hot pockets in the food, which will burn his crop. Just not worth it.
> ...


His eyes will probably be open tomorrow.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> His eyes will probably be open tomorrow.


That would be pretty exciting! I'll keeo you updated plus I'm sure I'll have a million more questions!


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

*Advice Please*

Ok. He is eating larger quantities since we have the temperature sorted out. My concern now is whether or not his crop is empty enough to feed again. We weighed him before his first feeding and he weighed 12g after eating he weighed 13.7g.

I would like advice or opinions on his crop especially the bottom of it. I've read some saying adding applesauce to help with digestion and would like to know amount and if it is necessary. 

This is my first time hand feeding a bird so any and all advice is appreciated.

**These photos were taken 4 hours after his morning feeding.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That right hand picture looks like maybe just a tad too full. Could just be the picture. You want to give him enough, but also you don't want to over stretch the crop, or it will have problems emptying.
Yes, add the applesauce to the feedings. You can add a small amount every other feeding if you like. It is going to take a lot longer for the crop to empty when that filled. Don't try to feed him again till it goes down. 

I just reread that you said it was 4 hours after his morning feeding. Shouldn't be that full by then. Was it actually fuller right after the feeding? That would be too much. Just increase the amount a little at a time. Not all at once.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> That right hand picture looks like maybe just a tad too full. Could just be the picture. You want to give him enough, but also you don't want to over stretch the crop, or it will have problems emptying.
> Yes, add the applesauce to the feedings. You can add a small amount every other feeding if you like. It is going to take a lot longer for the crop to empty when that filled. Don't try to feed him again till it goes down.
> 
> I just reread that you said it was 4 hours after his morning feeding. Shouldn't be that full by then. Was it actually fuller right after the feeding? That would be too much. Just increase the amount a little at a time. Not all at once.


It seems like his crop is filling towards the bottom. Both pictures were taken at the same time. When hes sitting it doesn't look full but if I pick him up and look underneath him it appears full. This is the problem I've been having all along. 

It was more full up top if that makes sense. Where now it's only full underneath him. like in the photo which is why I tried to get a photo of his underside.

I will wait to feed him and do 1/2 gerber applesauce (ingredients say apple, vitamin c) 1/2 formula. 

Is there anything else I should be doing in the mean time to help it empty?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't massage it, as it's just formula. If it were seeds, then I would massage a bit to loosen and break it up. But even then you need to be careful not to push it up to high, or it can aspirate him. If it doesn't empty a lot more, then I wouldn't even give the formula. Just the warmed applesauce with a little warm water added. But still need to wait till it comes down some and there is room for more food. Has it gone down more by now?


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't massage it, as it's just formula. If it were seeds, then I would massage a bit to loosen and break it up. But even then you need to be careful not to push it up to high, or it can aspirate him. If it doesn't empty a lot more, then I wouldn't even give the formula. Just the warmed applesauce with a little warm water added. But still need to wait till it comes down some and there is room for more food. Has it gone down more by now?


No, it hasn't.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't massage it, as it's just formula. If it were seeds, then I would massage a bit to loosen and break it up. But even then you need to be careful not to push it up to high, or it can aspirate him. If it doesn't empty a lot more, then I wouldn't even give the formula. Just the warmed applesauce with a little warm water added. But still need to wait till it comes down some and there is room for more food. Has it gone down more by now?


I didn't know what I was suppose to do and I tried to feed him a small amount since he was moving about and pecking. He did not eat very much before I was notified of your response and I immediately stopped feeding. 

What I did feed him however did have some applesauce mixed into it. I would say he ate 1-2cc before I saw your post and stopped. It was not as much applesauce as you recommended.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unless the crop goes down, you don't feed. You cannot go by the clock. You go by how the food is going through. You don't want to add new food to old, as that can start all kinds of problems. You must wait for the food to go through before adding more.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Unless the crop goes down, you don't feed. You cannot go by the clock. You go by how the food is going through. You don't want to add new food to old, as that can start all kinds of problems. You must wait for the food to go through before adding more.


For the past couple of days I have only fed 3-4 hours after he last ate based on his pecking and moving around. I will NOT make that mistake again and base it on his crop.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I had awful trouble with one of mine and a slow crop, I added apple sauce but it still wasn't emptying so with the baby held upside down I eventually decided I needed to empty her crop. I didn't know how else to do it so gently worked a little out at a time and gave her a breather in between. I knew there was a risk of aspiration but hoped by holding her upside down I could minimise it. After I'd emptied it I started her on a five day course of Metaclopramide - I can't remember the dosage but looked it up on the small animal formulary site and based the dose on her weight. So many times I thought she wasn't going to make it but once she passed the seven days old stage she picked up completely. I'm not saying you should do what I did but my girl looked quite poorly and my avian vet was away, with the regular vet not having much of a clue, so I felt if I didn't do something I'd lose her anyway.
This is her now and she's tough as old boots.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unfortunately the little one passed. His caretaker is heartbroken, as she did as much as she could for him and so wanted him to make it. Sadly sometimes that just doesn't happen. But he's in peace now. We need more people like that in this world. God Bless.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am sorry to hear he didnt make it. But agree with Jay3, world needs more kind hearted people.


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## abrunetteginger (Apr 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Unfortunately the little one passed. His caretaker is heartbroken, as she did as much as she could for him and so wanted him to make it. Sadly sometimes that just doesn't happen. But he's in peace now. We need more people like that in this world. God Bless.


Thank you Jay for posting that. I've been debating whether or not to do so. I appreciate everyone's help and concern. This is a great little community and I was happy to be a part of it even for just for a little while.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I really am so sorry. And know how very hard you tried. He may have had other problems that we don't know about. He didn't have a very good start. Thanks for trying so hard for him. You never know..............another little one may once again come your way, and you may be back. You have a good heart. I hope we see you again. Until then take care of yourself.


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