# My new tipplers



## Print Tippler

Got some new tipplers, really good looking birds. Check them out

A light print









The guy called this a bronze mottle. Is this brander bronze or Qualmond?









Heres a shot of the wing









A self red i think. is this recessive red?


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## Print Tippler

A red mottle









Another red mottle









black mottle









another black mottle


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## Print Tippler

A self yellow i think, maybe cream?









a red mottle









Then i picked up this recessive red grizzle acouple days ago









Another mottle


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## pidgey boy

beautiful birds you have really nice colors


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## Print Tippler

they will certainly add some good verity of color and blood into my mainly print grizzle and mottled loft, with two barred grizzle, This will create all sorts of things when i mix them up.


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## Sunne

Nice birds, all looking great, love the colors


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## Tiplets

Nice looking Tipplets... Tipplers


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## spirit wings

you have to be happy with those... nice quality looking birds healthy looking too..glad you showed them.


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## Print Tippler

yup yup, i like them, really like the reds and the yellow. The black mottles (tiger grizzles) could be better, maybe the will moult better. They should have the tiger effect evenly through the whole bird. But that's just me being picky, they are for flying and like i said i just wanted more genes since my gene pool was pretty small. I was originally going to get birds from someone else but it turned out they didn't have tippler though i thought they said they did. So there was two people on the azpigeon club with them called and only one still had them, called him up and he was only about 5 or so miles away. Had a nice 50 foot loft, sadly he does some stupid bad things when he has too many birds......i told him acouple times to me a call when that happens again...

here was his loft









heres one of my good mottle (tiger grizzle)










i had about 30 tipplers before, most were prints a handful or so of mottles and 2 barred


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## lordcornwallis

there nice pigeons well done


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## Print Tippler

Well, he stopped by today. Turns out a lot of my print are mottles, probably have a lot of print in them, if they have any specks on the wing they are consider mottle. I do have acouple "pure" prints which are purely white wings with no black specking. Also turned out he was able to tell me what color two of my bar grizzles were. They are silver dun bar grizzles, so that's neat. So here are those two, i got these awhile ago from my neighbor down my road who only keeps tipplers, and one other breed he doesn't like.

first bird

















second bird


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## pidgey boy

nice pics again i like the 50 ft loft and the tiger grizzle too


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## 4 the love of pigeon

U have some very good looking birds there! I have a grizzle that looks just like the first bird.


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## MaryOfExeter

Nice birds! Yes, that bronze mottle is either brander or tippler bronze. And the self yellow is recessive yellow.


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## Print Tippler

Thank you, so i guess i got everything else right? Are those red mottles and the 2nd bird recessive red? There is going to be a lot of mixing im going to be able to do.Is there any way of know what recessive red and recessive yellow produce or is it unknown since they both hide colors? They are both young but the red looks like a hen and the yellow might be a cock. if i mix it with black mottles or prints would the outcome be unknown? what would be the outcome of mixing a silver bar grizzle with a print or mottle. I want more silvers but the two are nest mates and I rather not breed together. Since silver is dilute, mixed with red would it make a yellow? Silver grizzle x red mottle = ? What would a silver grizzle make with a yellow since they are both dilutes right. what happens if a silver mixes with a yellow since they are both dilute.

What is that yellow pattern? Can it be self with those white specks or is it a mottle or something?

I never seen a brander bronze with black in it also, white with bronze, but this is guy is bronze with white, and acouple black specks


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## Phil Eyko

The two print ones with one sitting in a nest and other one with green band are so HOT!
I have two that look EXACTLY the same (http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1806&pictureid=18831)take a look at mine.
I tried pairing them for a month after both of there mates got killed by hawk( I think) and eventually gave up because they just wouldn't pair up!


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## Print Tippler

Eh, the prints / spangle are my least favorite what i really like are red prints. I only have one ring now, maybe another will have to see after a moult.


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## APF_LOFT

nice tippler and cool large loft. how do they fly? what the average flight time?


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## Print Tippler

That was his loft, he was flying these ones. Tipplers won't fly long out here in the summer. Winter and spring is when they do good.


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## Print Tippler

*More birds*

I just got 10 new birds from RX9s. 2 silver bars, 2 silver velvets, 3 red mottles, 2 blacks, and one blue bar. I pretty sure the two blacks are just black spread, one has black bars, i think that moults out, not sure.

silver velvet









black









another black ( the ones with bars didnt come out so well in the picture)









a silver bar


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## Print Tippler

red mottles









and the blue bar









I need to get more blue bars out of this one, so if anyone knows what i should mate with to get more let me know.


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## Tiplets

Nice looking young Birds!!!


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## MaryOfExeter

Something I forgot to add - sometimes birds with the darkening modifiers can appear black, but you'll still see the bars and most importantly the tail bar. Especially in velvets. Hard to tell sometimes unless you breed them.


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## Print Tippler

The two velvets are pretty sure silvers, they have some light brown specks which are talked about in that other thread. The blacks don't have ribbon tail or bar tail. The older black has alittle lighter flights and secondary's. Might need to take a picture when I get home.

What is all about this dun and silver? Many people just call silver pigmentation, dun. Dun is dilute black. I thought I heard it was okay to call a silver spread a dun?


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## MaryOfExeter

Dun is dilute black. Or spread silver, if you want to put it that way.
Silver is dilute blue. People who call silver bars and checks, "dun bars" and "dun checks" are wrong. Many people also call birds who are genetically brown, "dun", which is even more wrong than the dilute blue/black mix-ups.


Do you know the genders of all these birds? Will help a lot when mating them for more BB's  But your best bet will be sticking to barred birds since it is recessive. For example, blue bar to silver bar. Or the black with the bars showing through, to a silver bar or blue bar.


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## Print Tippler

It seems to be a cock, haven't him for half a day even but I think a cock. The 2 silver bars and the barred spread are young so i would have to wait. Hopefully one of my two silver grizzles is a hen. What would they throw If it is a male BB with a female silver grizzle with bars? That would be my only option other than a print that shows bars. With the grizzle and all the other pair ups would would the outcome be 50%. Anything sex linked?

Also, I want to make a dun now, would pairing up a silver grizzle with a black make a dun in the 1st gen? If the black happens to he a female I would maters it with my silver grizzle.

Edit: alright I was looking at these outcomes . I guess the best option would be to pair it with a silver bar and I would get all blue bars with cocks carrying dilute. Is my grizzles **** or heter?


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## rx9s

Nice Tipplers you Got there..


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## Phil Eyko

Yea, the prints are my favorite I love them.
If you happen to have any extras you could give me that would be awesome!


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## Tiplets

Yes they are nice birds!!! I love that blue bar...


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## rx9s

I will have some Blue Bar to sell In a Couple Of Weeks if you want some...


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## Print Tippler

This was my third trip in a row that took is to Florida and unfortunatly don't have any more planned right now.


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## Print Tippler

Phil Eyko said:


> Yea, the prints are my favorite I love them.
> If you happen to have any extras you could give me that would be awesome!


You know these are English tipplers and not Iranian high flyers right? Most of them have white tail feathers mixed with black. I would sell you some for 10 dollars a bird. 20 dollars for a mated proven pair. You would also have to pay for shipping and box.


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## MaryOfExeter

Print Tippler said:


> It seems to be a cock, haven't him for half a day even but I think a cock. The 2 silver bars and the barred spread are young so i would have to wait. Hopefully one of my two silver grizzles is a hen. What would they throw If it is a male BB with a female silver grizzle with bars? That would be my only option other than a print that shows bars. With the grizzle and all the other pair ups would would the outcome be 50%. Anything sex linked?
> 
> Also, I want to make a dun now, would pairing up a silver grizzle with a black make a dun in the 1st gen? If the black happens to he a female I would maters it with my silver grizzle.
> 
> Edit: alright I was looking at these outcomes . I guess the best option would be to pair it with a silver bar and I would get all blue bars with cocks carrying dilute. Is my grizzles **** or heter?


Both of your silver bar grizzles are het. Mating them to blacks will give you at least half of the offspring being spread. All the daughters will be dilute, so they may or may not be duns. If the black bird is pure for spread, then ALL the kids will be spread, giving you all black sons and all dun daughters. As far as how the grizzle gets inherited, assume half of all the offspring will be grizzled, regardless of sex.
So yes, the best/fastest way to get duns is to breed a silver cockbird to a black hen. Grizzle doesn't really matter unless you are concerned about getting dun/black grizzles.

A male BB mated to a silver bar grizzle hen would give you:
- All kids will be blue bars UNLESS the male is carrying dilute, in which you will get half dilute kids and half intense kids. 
- Half of all the offspring will be grizzled. So that means you will get blue bars and blue bar grizzles of both sexes (unless of course he is carrying dilute, then you'll get some silver bars and silver bar grizzles too).
- All sons will carry dilute.


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## Print Tippler

Ok thanks, the adult black is a cock so hopefully the other one will be a hen, i will probably wait on her and pair the black hen up with a silver bar or velvet. Would i get more blacks if I paired the black cock with a black mottle? I couldn't get dun with just the hen carrying dilute right.

I'm confused on what you said on the grizzle, it doesn't really matter? Does the grizzle show or would spread hide it?


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## Print Tippler

Well, got three birds my friend down the street. Take a look. Gave him a hen cause he needed one, gave him one in my flying loft that was about to lay. I was holding the bird while going down there and i thought it was pooping on me but then i noticed it was pushing out an egg! i got some of it on video but not the egg coming out, it came out like 30 seconds after. It was her first egg. But im making another thread on that

Oh yeah, and i got these for free.
here at the birds.

a red print or IDK red grizzle.









And these two nest mates, i really like these two. I would be instested in know the colors of these two, i know one is a silver, and the other blue

is this just a silver grizzle? Has white tail strip


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## Print Tippler

Heres the other bird. I wondering if theres other factors involved than just blue grizzle it lookslike sooty is there anything else, has the white tail strip
Could it be dirty with such a deep color?


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## Phil Eyko

Print Tippler said:


> You know these are English tipplers and not Iranian high flyers right? Most of them have white tail feathers mixed with black. I would sell you some for 10 dollars a bird. 20 dollars for a mated proven pair. You would also have to pay for shipping and box.


I got my friend Tipplers and He only has 6 brown ones so I think he wants more.


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## Print Tippler

Let me know Phil, I only have a relatively small season to ship birds out. Mostly just these fall and winter months.

http://phoenix.about.com/od/weather/a/averagetemps.htm

Right now i can only let go of these prints like the one you like, Next year i will probably be able to let go more reds, blacks, and silvers.


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## rx9s

Them 3 with yellow bands are Nice Birds...LOL


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## Phil Eyko

I will ask him but shipping is a killer........


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## Print Tippler

Yeah I understand, It wouldn't be worth it for me to ship a bird to me. I'm fortunate to be able to pick them up when I travel for work, like last time when I got some from rx9s. Makes it a lot cheaper


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## Jabels

rx9s said:


> Them 3 with yellow bands are Nice Birds...LOL


yea them birds are nice


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## Print Tippler

rx9s said:


> Them 3 with yellow bands are Nice Birds...LOL


Try finding birds that arnt your that are nice ha. Your birds are nice though. That blue bar is a little crazy. They should all be going out Sunday or Monday.


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## rx9s

My Blue Bar are on there First round of eggs let see want the young come out looking like.Yea that blue did not make it for me.It may breed you some nice birds.You got a couple of nice birds beside of my birds.But it all how they fly.You will see when you get your kit going.


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## Print Tippler

might be alittle disorganized at first. I'm let little my old kit of 8 or 9 out a minute before i release the rest, hopefully the just kite up with them.


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## rx9s

Yea It a Mess in the Sky when new birds start but they will get it.Can wait to see the videos.


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## Print Tippler

yup yup, ill be sure to show you. They got the trap down by now and should be going out sunday night i believe. Giving them half the feed on saturday and letting them out probably around 3:30 or 4 pm.


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## shibu trippler

i luv the last one silver dun bar grizzles.so can u tell me which birds u pair to get tat bird


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## Print Tippler

the very last one? This is a blue or brown i believe bar grizzle with sooty and dirty. You would need a blue bar and a grizzle which is either barred, barless or split for barred. But you have to also have sooty and dirty in the birds.










Or did you mean this bird? this is a silver bar grizzle. you would need a silver bar, and a like before a blue, silver, or brown barless, bar, or split for bar grizzle. By split for bar i mean that the bird could be a checkerd bird that came from one check and one bar.

For me, im planning on breeding my blue bar grizzle with sooty and dirty to a blue bar which also dirty and maybe sooty. Still finding out on that. That will give me a 50/50 of each of the parents. For the second bird im probably going to breed them with a silver bar to also give me a 50/50 of each of the parents. Since in both cases the birds are the same except for the grizzle. Grizzle will show in half of the offspring.


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## shibu trippler

i was telling abt the silver bar grizzle. thanks for helping me out.i have a silver bar cock & a blue barless grizzle ,m going to giv a try.and again thanks for the help


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## Print Tippler

That would do it, Do you have any pictures of that blue barless grizzle?


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## shibu trippler

this is tat grizzle hen


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## MaryOfExeter

That grizzle is a blue bar grizzle, not barless. Grizzle can comepletely hide/break up the pattern sometimes. Especially in bars.


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## USA4thewin

very nice, am sure you are excited getting new pigeons. good luck with them


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## shibu trippler

this is a cock ,can plz anyone tell me which hen should i pair to get youngs similar to the cock


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## Print Tippler

I don't know, If you breed a silver bar cock to blue bar grizzle your get silver bar grizzles i believe, at least 25%


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## J.Wall

over here in England we have different names for the colours of pigeons. I fly mainly blues and silver (greys) but members in our club fly lots of different colours


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## Print Tippler

Yeah, I try to stick to genetically technical names.


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## Print Tippler

*new birds*

Well, thought i would just post these birds i got. 1 i got the other day for free, then 2 more for free today from my friend down the street. Going to be getting some more birds from someone else here soon for taking care of his loft, ill post those when i get them


Got 3 red mottles



















turns out the blues are mixes =/ last time i deal with shady people. The reds are good though


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## Rafael/PR

i love the colors of the second picture , how much did they cost you ? once my loft is build i just want racer, tippler and ny flight , just performing breed and keep some of my show in the small loft-aviery i have


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## Print Tippler

The picture right above? I got those for free. If they are bandless reds. Im going to eventually sell off my birds and keep only the ones I've bred and tamed. I only want tame birds. I think it will be better.


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## rpalmer

Print Tippler said:


> The picture right above? I got those for free. If they are bandless reds. Im going to eventually sell off my birds and keep only the ones I've bred and tamed. I only want tame birds. I think it will be better.


You have some nice looking birds. Too bad about the black ones. Take care had have a winning 2012.


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## tipplers4life

what would you call this pattern,ide say a grizzle check,or bar,its nest mate was a blue bar with a light head


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## tipplers4life

the grizzle above nest mate,


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## tipplers4life

the two birds above are still in juvinile plumage,these are racing logans


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## NZ Pigeon

Definetly blue grizzle for the first one, Looks bar but is hard to tell whats under the grizzle without looking closely at the birds, The second is blue bar but looks like one of my sootys did before it moulted through, Or that blue tipping on the feathers may dissapear when it moults. Sooty does not show through properley until it goes through the first moult.


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## tipplers4life

the cock parent was full white and the hen parent was a print,strange what u get somtimes,yes i think the blue bar at the bottom will loose the tipping as the bars allways do,they moult out realy nice even blue,whats sooty ive herd of it but never seen it,ime still learning about colors and patterns,


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## NZ Pigeon

Yeah you can get a lot, White is usually either grizzle white or recessive white, In this case Its unlikely its a grizzle white as you only got one grizzle from the cross and if it was grizzle white it would be double dose grizzle causing all the offspring to be grizzle.

Sooty creates false checking, So it looks like a really light check bird. It won't usualy show till the first moult but the sootys I have heard appear like your blue bird until they moult, It may be unrelated to sooty though, From what I have read you do not see sooty at all until the first moult.


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## tipplers4life

oh i get ya,i may have another blue bar with a bit of sooty,i was wondering about my other bar,the rest of my bars dont have the sooty,ok cheers pal thanks for your help


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## tipplers4life

could you explain recessive,ive read about it and kind of understand,can u tell me in simple terms


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## tipplers4life

for a bird to be recessive it needs a gean from each parent to be visible,this is how i understand,and if put a dominent gene against a recessive gene only dominant would show,but recessive genes could still be past on?


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## tipplers4life

say if i bred two yellows together ide get yellows if both parents where to pass the yellow on, is this recessive?


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## NZ Pigeon

Yellow is recessive yes, There are two main types, Recessive yellow which is recessive red with dilute and then ash yellow which is ash red with dilute, Dilute is a recessive sex linked gene which is a little different but leave that out for now to keep things simple

You are definetly on the right track with recessive genes needing two copies to show.

If you had a bird that was recessive yellow hen paired to a recessive red cock that carrys 1 gene of dilute ( dilute makes yellow ) then 50% of the offspring would be recessive yellow as they will get the dilute gene from the mum and 50% will pick it up from the cock. Once again this example is leaving sex linkage out of the equation for simplicitys sake.
I am not sure if this explains it or not. Hard to put in words, have you read ron huntleys website? he explains things really well

Pigeons always have two positions available for each charecteristic, ( apart from hens when talking about sex chromosomes ) So like you have said if they have two of these positions filled by a recessive gene then it will show as that is all that is there to go by, If there are two different options then the dominant one will show with the recessive one being hidden.
The charecteristics include many things from colour, pattern, crest, foot feathers and basically everything that makes up what we see when we look at a pigeon


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## tipplers4life

cheers for the input,its all hard work and a lot to read up on and learn,ive not been to the site but ile check it out thanks,,if i can master the basics then ile be happy with that,a lot of it comes down to breeding experiance and experimenting,pigeons are a lovely bird to have,they are so versitile,there is no other annimal like it on earth i dont think


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## AZCorbin

Well we just got more birds in today from Johnny over at Jaglofts.com

6 birds from NY city to Phoenix made it in 27 hours!

Happy to add these genes into our loft.
Ash red grizzle cocks, 1 ash reds a young bird and a breeder. Also took in a cock and hen blue grizzle and a young dominate opal (AKA gold bar)


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## AZCorbin

And here are two more birds we got from a buddy down the street.
Hopefully that blue t pattern shown below will sex out right so I can mate the opal with it!


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## Print Tippler

The dominant opal opens up a lot of possibilitys. First step would be t pattern then after that I don't know. Want to keep it in bars also and maybe rec red.


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## hamza syed

print tippler,
nice pigeon .. u will be happy with them and the colour is nice


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