# Information needed to prove feces statement is false



## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Greetings.
I hate to ask this ridiculous question... However I would like to present printed/documented information to neighbors that proves that the following is false:
"pigeon feces erodes and causes considerable damage to shingles and the wood/siding."
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your interest in pigeon poop. 

There is an erosive agent in pigeon poop, but it is that way with most bird poop. It is not significant and not as bad as some people will have you think. It needs to be cleaned up regurlarly like any poop, then it isn't an issue at all.

Here is link you will find helpful and fact filled, though it may not have anything about the poop erosion factor.

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/pigeons/


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you ~ and yes the link is directed more towards 'health'... 
It's the common issue of a neighbor.
See I have one of those rare green / flowering back yards on the edge of 'downtown' (Minneapolis). For fourteen years I have been creating a safe habitat for critters. Five years ago a developer came along / tore out a garden and put in a 22-unit building = new neighbors... This building doesn't have green space except when they look into my yard. They complimented the space (my yard) / buy in, and then decide later that as much as they enjoy the "wildlife" they are "intimidated by the number of birds"... and the droppings that they see on their property. They've put up those lovely spikes - which the sparrows and finches enjoy using as a safe place for their fledglings... and the pigeons have moved to their rooftop / and of course still hang out on my building. (Which is fine)
I do wash and clean / maintain my garden / yard / property. The complaint is from the neighbors in the 'new building'. They enjoy the 'city living' and say they "enjoy the wildlife' and garden" I've created, however they would prefer not to see any 'waste' on their property from the birds. They even asked if I could not feed the pigeons and only feed the other birds. < An interesting concept as food does fall to the ground when knocked out of a feeder by a lil' bird... 
I simply got an email (filled with many a false statement) from a neighbor today and know I will see them sometime this week. Just looking for information / advice. I don't want anything to get ugly...
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think it is good to try to resolve this in advance, as you are trying to do, because otherwise it can get to the point where they call in an exterminator.

It is a shame the developer had to build there, but this is what usually happens, wildlife comes in second, and of course the pigeon is rated on the bottom, even though they were there first. The pigeons will set up nest or roost wherever they can especially near their food source.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Some info (not comprehensive) on effects of pigeon poop on material (wood, metal)*

There was a question about pigeon dung being involved in the collapse of a bridge.

Pigeon Dung Examined in Bridge Collapse
Wednesday, August 22, 2007
By MARTIGA LOHN, Associated Press Writer

http://origin.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2007Aug22/0,4675,BridgeCollapsePigeons,00.html

excerpt:



> Pigeon droppings contain ammonia and acids, said chemist Neal Langerman, an officer with the health and safety division of the American Chemical Society. If the dung isn't washed away, it dries out and turns into a concentrated salt. When water gets in and combines with the salt and ammonia, it creates small electrochemical reactions that rust the steel underneath.
> 
> "Every time you get a little bit of moisture there, you wind up having a little bit of electrochemistry occurring and you wind up with corrosion," said Langerman. "Over a long term, it might in fact cause structural weaknesses."
> 
> Langerman emphasized that he wasn't saying pigeon dung factored into the collapse of the 40-year-old bridge. "Let's let the highway transportation and safety people do their job," he said.


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It was discussed in this thread started by pigeonperson on 31 August 2007 6:04 P.M., titled

"Meanwhile: They're not just rats with wings"

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f22/m...th-wings-22517.html?highlight=bridge+collapse

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Later, an article said *the pigeon dung was not a factor in the collapse of the bridge*. (Referred to in this thread started by Nabisho, 30 July 2008 11:50 P.M.) 

Pigeons cleared in bridge collapse

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=29015&referrerid=2969

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I-35W Mississippi River bridge
The I-35W Mississippi River bridge (officially known simply as 'Bridge 9340') 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge

See this *Wikipedia* article for a detailed report on the collapsed bridge.

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There was a lot of news coverage on this collapsed bridge. People might remember the original coverage, when everything was fresh, more than the later news.

People who have read about the collapsing *metal* bridge, and the suspicions concerning pigeon poop, may later think (or transfer) that pigeon poop disintegrates *wood*.

However, pigeon coops are often made of wood. Weather and temperature changes and sunlight and acid rain will have an effect of wood over time. Any one who has seen old wood can imagine many causes for its deterioration, some factual, somenot.

Points to be considered: 

-- what is the source of their information? Pest control companies who may be distorting or exaggerating the facts, to procure business? Paint and varnish companies, wanting to sell product. Painters, wanting to sell services?

There may be *some* truth to the claims. But is it unbearable? Is the cost prohibitive? Pay double the cost of the roof to extend its original life by ten percent? Kill all pigeons and all other birds to increase the life-span of the roof by a few percent?

Breathing oxygen ages human beings. should we stop breathing?

Should we live in a sterilized world? A sterile world would not be a healthy one.

*Bird Biodiversity Good for Humans Too*


http://10000birds.com/bird-biodiversity-good-for-humans-too.htm



> It appears that our friends at the College of William and Mary are on a roll. Hot off the epic expedition of Winnie the Whimbrel comes a fascinating study that helps promote biodiversity in the only context most people can understand: human self interest. In essence, a healthy, diverse bird population is also good for human health!
> 
> The reason biodiversity is such a boon can be explained by a phenomenon called the dilution effect:
> 
> ...


Some of this info does not directly pertain to the question asked, but it is better to be informed, and to appear informed. 

Larry


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## 4zpigeons (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you ever so much... I agree it is better to have 'too much' information... To be informed... and what you've provided is wonderful. Thank you!
~ The statements have to do with 'iron rod fencing', wood (composite) siding / deck material and shingles being destroyed by pigeon feces. Basically anything on their property. 
As far as the 35W bridge, it wasn't to do with our feathered friends. I live in Minneapolis, heard it collapse and walked over to see what had happened within the hour... and have been hearing about it ever since. 
and now I must return to z 'pigeon poo' studies... I have much to read, review and find. 
Thank you.
~ 4zp.


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