# My Cunundrum



## Danerra (Dec 2, 2010)

Hey All

I need to make a decision ASAP.

If you might remember, I mentioned about finding a pigeon "Frosty". I've been doing a lot of calling around locally to figure out what our options are. She clearly has feather lice, and the vets around here charge a fair bit for treatments. The consulting fee starts around $80, then 3 treatments of Ivermetcin, then a re-check fee, then more treatments if needed. Seems to be the standard practice. I also found online that instead of shots, Ivermectin is something that perhaps can be added to water? Also, up here there are laws about having wild animals in homes of course, and if i want to keep her there seems to be a bylaw that I have to belong to a pigeon fanciers club or something. Keeping in mind that she is not banded, I cannot exactly say if she's feral or not since her attitude is such that I would suspect she's used to humans.

So... this is where I'm at: 

a) I can fork out the cash and pay to find out if she's feral or not, and if not, then start on Ivermectin treatments at a high cost but this would mean i need to still figure out if i can keep her legally.

b) Take her to a very good local wild bird sanctuary and rescue who DO NOT euthanize and have a very good reputation, but they rehabilitate to release back into the wild, but again, i don't know if she's wild or not.

c) I can dig around online and try to do it myself if there's a place to buy Ivermectin from, but again, no idea if I'm doing it right, am infecting my home with parasites or feather lice etc...

She's super sweet, my husband is very attached to her, we want the best for her, i don't want to be keeping something wild illegally, i don't know if she's wild or not, she's not banded (which would be unusual up here since our province is pretty rigid about that kind of thing), so i really don't know what to do  

Any advice?
- Andrea


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi, Danerra
I don't have a clue about the rest, but for the feather mites you can go to a farm store and get seven dust. I use 20 mule teem borax give the bird a good bath the borax coats the body of the mite and bugs like that breath through the body. You may have to give her a few baths pigeons love to take baths.
Dave


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Andrea, you don't need to spend that much money to get rid of the bugs. And they won't infest your home--they stay on the bird. If you're seeing bugs on her feathers that look like splinters that move, those are feather lice and they are very easy to get rid of; you don't even need Ivermectin. Go to a pet store and get pyrethrin-based spray for cage birds. Follow the directions and spray her thoroughly. You'll probably need to re-treat in a couple weeks. I've found poultry dust to be very effective, too. It's sold in feed stores. The type I get is also pyrethrin-based and is safe for pigeons.

Ivermectin is needed if she has mites but you usually can't see mites with the naked eye. You can purchase the type that goes in the drinking water from All Birds Products. www.allbirdproducts.com

I treat all new pigeons and doves, regardless of where I got them, preventatively with medications to address the most common ailments: trichomoniasis ("canker"), coccidiosis and worms. These things are species-specific and aren't going to harm you or your other pets. You can buy Multi-mix from Global Pigeon Supply, Foy's or Jedd's. 

www.globalpigeon.com
www.foyspigeonsupplies.com
www.jedds.com

I strongly recommend you get a basic pigeon care book such as "Pigeons" from the Barron's pet series, available from Amazon.com.

I'm sure Frosty is _not_ a feral. Not all fanciers band their birds. If you keep her in a cage in the house I doubt there will be an issue with it. If you find you can't keep her, then hopefully we can help you find a home for her in your area.

Hope this helps.

-Cathy


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## Danerra (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks so much you two. We really don't want to give her up and I think we could really be the house for her... http://picasaweb.google.com/awesomeandrea/FrostyTheIcePigeon?authkey=Gv1sRgCLq5q-bCnIiRmAE&feat=directlink Some updated pictures of her having a bath with the budgie 

I'm going to look into the solutions you recommended Cathy. None of the stores here carry the Ivermectin which I thought was the best solution. The only way i could get it was from the vets and I was worried that I'd get reported at having her and have her taken away. I'll see what i can do about finding the Borax too Dave.

As you can see from the pictures, taking care of her shouldn't be too much of a challenge because she doesn't resist too much.

I really really really appreciate the efforts you guys put into this site. It has been a god send especially for someone like me who's a zero when it comes to pigeon care. Thank you for your dedication!!!!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

You're welcome! We were all once a zero when it comes to pigeon care and learned along the way because someone took the time to share knowledge with us--I'm just passing it on. And there's always more to learn.

Love the bath photos--too cute!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

She's a beauty. Could have been a Feral, although if she bonded quickly to you huuuumans...I would say she was a lost domestic.

Yes, just go ahead and use the over-counter lice treatments. they work very well. I just dust my patients with flea powder, honestly...and two dustings separated by a couple of days takes care of everything. Remember to cover here cere (i.e. 'nose') and eyes when you dust. I put 'em on a flat surface after dusting and you can just see the lice falling off and dying. Pigeon lice are very species-specific...my avian vet tells me they certainly do not use human hosts and even parrot hosts are no hospitable to them.

Just a quick Q.....in the first series of pics, her neck is "turtled" and her feathers fluffed out. Is this a usual demeanor for her ? The latter pics show here more alert and smooth-feathered.

How are her poops ? Are they watery and stringy, or firmer and showing both white and dark colors ?

In the time you have had her, have you taken her to a vet or medicated her with anything ???


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## Danerra (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi Jaye

Thank you! We find her(?) very pretty too and think she is probably domestic but can't be 100% sure. She certainly is not startled by us or intimidated.

I have a dog... I can't imagine that's the kind of flea powder you're talking about is it?

About the "turtling" and feather fluffing, we only saw that when she was cold outside, and then that night when we brought her in. She hasn't really done it since, even the pictures with my husband holding her was after she came out of a lukewarm bath and in a warm bathroom and didn't appear to be too 'fluffy' even being wet. She toured the bathroom floor and preened herself without fluffing up like that.

About her poops... they have caused me a bit of concern. They are watery and still stringy. They do show both colours but haven't hardened up too much. I suspect I need some nutrient suppliments in her food? This is one reason i wanted her stool examined. I really don't know what i'm doing but with Christmas, 3 kids, and large family i kinda want to keep my budget reasonable in terms of needing a vet, I'll have more free cash in January.

I have not taken her to a vet or medicated her. The issue i was (and am) having was illustrated above in the first post on this thread. Very expensive, and the risk of having her taken is there too which I don't want particularly since I'm not sure I'm actually allowed to keep her. That said, I've never been much of one to follow rules unless they are for good safety reasons and I haven't seen too much above that makes me fear for the safety of the house/kids etc.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you can be 100% sure she is not a feral.. so put that to rest...lol.. to find products without a prescrip.. google pigeon supply and there are a few online stores to choose from to buy what ever you need for her... treating her for lice is pretty straight forward as metioned already.. either the seven dust or the spray will work.. ivermec can be bought at the pigeon supply sites... here is one link to ivermec
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/519-584.html


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I would get Ivermectin and some coccidiodis treatment such as Appartex (Clazuril). These are cheap and easy to administer. The poop could be a sign of coccidia.

Even if she has neither worms nor coccidia...administering the meds will not hurt her. They are relatively inexpensive over-counter pigeon drugs available online. There may well be a place in Canada which has them for order......

How is her weight ? Does she seem to have a lot of "meat" on her breast/chest area ? ....or can you see her breastbone/keelbone protruding somewhat ?


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Shes beautiful, just hush about her and the neighbors or anyone else dont know you have her. I would keep her. Goodluck. If anyone inquires....she flew away.


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## Danerra (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks Spirit,

@ Jaye - I did notice the keelbone protruding somewhat however I really haven't handled pigeons before so I have no good benchmark to go from, she's got a healthy appetite and I figure with daily exercise she'll build her muscle back. She seems to have no problems/hesitation with flight and lands very gracefully. 

@ Birdbabe - Hard to keep it quiet when it's posted all over my Facebook and my neighbours saw me rescue her. Then again, the already know my house is the lost animal mecca and might not think much of it. We've rescued three dogs, two racing pigeons (they were much different, i could get their banding and they were located and taken right away by their owners), a baby mink and we tend to leave a lot of food out for the wild birds here and have the worst lawn in the neighbourhood since we keep it cut but natural so they can feed on grubs and worms etc... LOL, i suspect they all secretly hate us but leave us alone


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this beauty!

Give her a good pigeon mix to eat (if you haven't already) , as it is designed for a pigeons and helps meet their nutritional needs. A good probiotic will help with any gut bacteria issues, and be sure she is warm and out of any air drafts.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

To the best of my knowlage pigeons are not classed as wild aminals in Canada. There are site listing pigeon as pet in Canada. I am lost as why you would think it would be classed as wild.


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## Danerra (Dec 2, 2010)

To Gem...

Apart from wild ones being on the prohibited list here...

http://ottawa.ca/residents/bylaw/a_z/acc_en.html

PIGEONS
79 No person shall keep pigeons or doves or both (hereinafter referred to in this Section as "birds") in an area of the City where the zoning permits residential land use unless:
(a) the owner of the birds is a member of a recognized racing or homing pigeon club, which is affiliated with a national pigeon association, and
(b) the birds are not kept in, upon, or under any building used for human habitation,
(c) the birds are kept in a loft of sufficient size to house all birds, which shall provide a minimum space of 1.0 square meters of loft space for every ten (10) birds, and be so constructed as to prevent escape by the birds,
(d) the birds' loft is located at a distance of not less than seven (7) meters from any dwelling, shop or apartment building, and at a distance of not less than three (3) meters from any adjoining property line,
(e) the maximum number of birds kept by any person on any property in an area of the City where the zoning permits residential land use is forty (40) between November 1 of one year and March 31 of the following year and seventy (70) between April 1 and October 31,
(f) each bird wears a metal or plastic leg band that shall identify the owner of the bird,
(g) none of the birds are permitted to perch, roost, nest or rest upon any premises other than on the premises of the owner,
(h) any bird afflicted with an infectious or contagious disease is not kept, except in a licensed animal hospital or under conditions of isolation and quarantine approved by the Medical Officer of Health, as applicable, and
(i) all lands and premises where the birds are kept, are kept and maintained in a sanitary condition at all times, and all waste materials from said lands and premises are disposed of in a manner that will not create a public nuisance or health hazard.
79A. (1) The owner of pigeons or doves or both may permit the birds to fly twice daily between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 a.m. and between the hours of 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. provided that the owner of the birds supervises the flights.
(2) No owner of pigeons or doves or both shall permit flights at any time other than the times provided for in subsection (1) or permit unsupervised flights.
(3) The provisions of subsection (1) do not apply during a flight event conducted by a recognized racing or homing pigeon club.
80 Section 79 shall not apply to a person keeping pigeons or doves or both where such person resides on lands zoned agricultural, general rural, rural, rural-agricultural or marginal resource in the applicable zoning by-laws of the old municipalities or any successor by-law thereto. 

This is where it comes from.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Danerra and welcome!

As for the legality of keeping pigeons...
When I contacted my local health department about getting a permit for pigeons, I was told that for one or 2 birds in the house, it's not necessary. (or, basically that as long as no neighbors complained, they would "look the other way" about it) 

Now your city may differ, but I think it's unlikely you'd get in any trouble for keeping it as a "cage bird" in the house, unless someone complained. (I did eventually get a permit for my birds, but not until I built a loft in the yard.)

Also, if you are concerned about anyone thinking the bird is feral, pick up a snap-on plastic band. Most people probably wouldn't question, as long as the bird is wearing some type of band it will appear to be domestic. (If your local feed store does not carry these, PM me.) I know that in the States, it's legal to keep feral pigeons, but maybe not in Canada? Pigeons are usually classified as "feral" rather than "wild" and that may make a difference.

Hope this helps.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Danerra said:


> To Gem...
> 
> Apart from wild ones being on the prohibited list here...
> 
> ...


I stand corrected!!!!! So much for personal freedom. Reading that set of rules make me ever so glad the Lord called us to be missionaries in Mexico


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