# Genetics/Breeding Questions - Old German Owl



## zchryssp

When it comes to Old German Owls it doesn't seem like there are many readily avaliable color combinations - at least that I know of. Right now I only have one pair, blue-barred blue-shield. I am by no means planning to go around crossing these birds, they look awesome - very much show quality. Don't want to run the risk of getting poor breedings.

Anyhow.. If a yellow shield OGO was to be bred a blue-barred blue-shield OGO: what would be the outcome? 

Is yellow a dilute to red? I have heard yes and no, but it seems people here are better at answering these sorts of questions than Google is 

Thanks!!


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## Henk69

Yes, yellow is a dilute to red, eg ash red or recessive red. It is caused by a sexlinked gene d. This gene has another mutant called pale d^p which is dominant to d but recessive to wildtype (D+ > d^p > d). A pale red would be called a "gold".

So if your male is the yellowshield (d//d), his daughters will be diluted whatever (d/-).
If the yellow is recessive red based (e//e d//d), it could hide things like ashred and spread.
If it is ashred (B^a//?) based, it could carry blue (B^a//B+) or brown (B^a//b), and maybe spread. Spread would make a blue pigeon black.

Also the more dominant wing pattern genes could be hidden, like check and T-check/velvet; they would overpower the bar.


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## zchryssp

The male I have right now is a blue-barred blue-shield: if he bred over a yellow shield what would happen then? I had no idea pigeons could sex-link.


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## Henk69

Then the sons will be split to the dilute (D+//d = +//d) and the daughters not dilute (D+/-). Unless the blueshield male carries dilute himself (D+//d). In that case half of sons and daughters will be dilute something.
For the non sexlinked factors it shouldn't matter.


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## zchryssp

What inputs into the Pigeon Calculator (i.e. http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingDuif2ENflex.html?DATA=S;Pigeon Plug-in Calculator)would make an Old German Owl? For instance: what input is needed to make a blue-barred blue-shield? Yellow shield? 


Really appreciate your knowledge, these birds are awesome and the whole sex-linkage thing is really intteresting.


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## Iceland

*Just for the fun.*









This is from red hen and black male.









And this is one of them one year old.


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## george simon

zchryssp said:


> What inputs into the Pigeon Calculator (i.e. http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingDuif2ENflex.html?DATA=S;Pigeon Plug-in Calculator)would make an Old German Owl? For instance: what input is needed to make a blue-barred blue-shield? Yellow shield?
> 
> 
> Really appreciate your knowledge, these birds are awesome and the whole sex-linkage thing is really intteresting.


*You must understand that bar is not a color it is a pattern, and it can come in all colors. Here you are looking to breed blue bars the best mating for this would be BB to BB.This would give you 100% BB, unless both parents are split for for barless then you would get 75% BB and 25% Barless. Now is your yellow hen a bared bird,if she is then all the young should be bared. The cocks will be will be yellow split for blue, while all the hens will be blue as they get only one color gene and that comes from the male bird. Here you must understand that the cock bird carriers two color genes and passes one to the young hen,now hens carry only one color gene so the color you see is the color she passes to the young cock bird so he gets 2 color genes one from each parent. . GEORGE*


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## Henk69

The color genes I already mentioned.
Spread = S//?
Wing pattern genes = C locus

For the pied genes you need http://kippenjungle.nl/pigeoncalculatorspecial.html

You need Baldhead, gazzi, whitetail, whiteflight. But since these are the same for both parents, they are not that interesting anyway.


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## loftkeeper

go to slobberknockerlofts.com has a color and marking chart for different mateings


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## MaryOfExeter

Iceland said:


> *Just for the fun.*
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> And this is one of them one year old.


Ash-red spreads often have a lot of red leaking through before they moult  And sometimes even then they still retain some red.




A blue bar saddle cockbird with a yellow hen...depends on what kind of yellow. It is either ash-yellow, which is the dilute of ash-red, OR it is recessive yellow, which is the dilute of recessive red. So yes, in all cases, "yellow" is the dilute of "red".

If she is recessive yellow, then we can't tell you. There's no telling what she is carrying underneath the recessive yellow, that can be passed to the kids. All we can say is that all the kids will be split for recessive red, and all of the males will be split for dilute.

If she is ash-yellow, then you will have a sex-linked pair. All the daughters will be blue and all the sons will be red (carrying dilute). The pattern depends on what pattern the hen is. I'm going to assume that IF she is ash-yellow, then she is t-pattern, thus making her shield look solid yellow. In that case, all of the babies will be t-patterns as well, unless she is carrying a different pattern. If she's carrying check, then you'll get t-patterns and checks (all carrying bar). If she's carrying bar, then you'll get t-patterns (carrying bar) and bars.


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