# What are the rolling/tumbling breeds can evade BOP?



## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

*What rolling/tumbling breeds are good at evadeing BOP?*

I was interested in the FOR but then came across the CAT and was wondering if there are any other rolling and tumbling breeds able to evade hawks and other predatory birds effectively?

thanks


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## 2y4life (Apr 5, 2010)

None of them work 100% BUT some of the flying ORs and very few Catalonians can supposedly do it. No pigeon can outfly bops on a consistent basis though although I assume some of the diving breeds might do well if they dive at the right time or if the flyer sees a bop and puts the dropper out in time.


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## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, not 100%. But I know that the FOR's are pretty effective on a regular basis. Are there any other breeds that are GOOD at it?


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## 2y4life (Apr 5, 2010)

Armanitvrs said:


> Yes, not 100%. But I know that the FOR's are pretty effective on a regular basis. Are there any other breeds that are GOOD at it?


The only breeds that people have claimed are FORs, CTs, and Voutas/Wutas.

BTW, I asked Dale Husband about the evasive abilities of FORs and he never vouched for it, only saying that he had heard it from others. Said he didn't lose lot of FORs but he did lose them to bops. And if you know FORs, then you probably know who Dale Husband was.


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## HeavyDlofts (May 23, 2012)

Good luck with evading hawkes, I have not had any luck


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

If the pigeons are not afraid of you, then you have a better chance, because when the danger comes, the spooked birds will take off while the not so spooked birds might stay behind and not rise up. Never fly after feeding, if hawks are present. I think millet works well with my mixed tumblers when it comes to outflying the hawks. One day millet the day before the exercise, and 13.5% on the day after the exercise. I fly every other day when hawks are around.


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## Shan (Feb 4, 2012)

Yup, no pigeon breed can "out fly" a determined BOP when the BOP has the drop on the pigeon--I'll let you decide what "the drop" means to you with your pigeon breed and in your area. The issue is relative. IF your birds have had plenty of time in the air they have a better chance. Newly weaned YBs on the loft roof are fair game and a few WILL be eaten. Older, experienced birds have better odds in their favor. IF they are on the smaller size they have a better chance. If they are healthy they have a better chance. IF the pigeons see a BOP before they attack they have a better chance.

But . . . a few of the breeds mentioned can "out maneuver" a BOP if they have seen it in time to react. Few birds can flee a BOP when they are surprised on the loft roof. Tom Donald in Canada has Horseman thief pouters that can "out maneuver" a Goshawk, and I've seen a photo of one of his birds just ahead of a Peregrine. His birds have a wee tad bit of Feral blood crossed in to bring the size down. Many of his 1/2 Feral 1/2 HTPs are pretty agile in the air. 

My competition Rollers were NEVER taken by any Cooper's hawks around the loft here in Texas BECAUSE they always had a longrange view of the Cooper's approaching. None of my Racing Homers flying around the loft fell prey to the Cooper's either, but they were often chased by migrating Cooper's who were quite hungry. Can't vouch for the ones on the road during training or racing, however. The Harris hawks in Arizona and New Mexico seem adept at taking the larger Racers, but I have never SEEN that happen. Only guess it happens during the race season when the Harris hawks are feeding young in the nest. 

I am putting together a kit of Catalonians who will have all summer to get strong enough to fly against the Cooper's that will arrive here in early September. A few of the migrating Cooper's stay until the end of February or early March, too. I have NO experience with Cats, yet. But as an old friend of Steve Bodio, I have heard plenty of stories of Catalonian flying skills near Magdalena, New Mexico. I expect some losses just the same. 

FORs might be one of the best, in my estimation. But the last FORs I had were show type--not true flying type. Alan Bliven has an article at his site on the skills of FORs: Google Chiclid Lovers and click on his "pigeons."

So? Now what? Fly a few different breeds and see which can survive in your region against your BOPs. Expect some losses; only the fittest will survive. Seems like ol Charley Darwin was correct in his assumptions, eh?

Shan


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't know about homers but if a Harris hawk snagged a Tippler I would feel obligated to rhome all my birds..
I don't even consider it a BOP anymore. Have a nest a few hundred feet away my birds don't even fly high around them and hawks don't even look twice. Harris are abundant here and I am happy because I am able to fly year round partially thanks to them.
I do not think a Harris could get a flying homer.


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## 2y4life (Apr 5, 2010)

Shan, you are correct. No breed will consistently outfly BOPs. FORs here in the US predominately came from Dale Husband and I talked with the man and he said he didn't have many hawks but did lose the occasional bird to the hawks. 

Your best bet to not losing birds is to fly in a wide open space if possible, away from trees.


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## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

Ok, thanks everyone.


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## Parlor Fan (Jan 20, 2009)

My Orientals have done very well against the Cooper's here. I've watched them outlfy them and either go high,dive into pine trees,or I even had one just plain hit the ground from 10' high.The Cooper missed it and it flew right to me and wouldn't fly again that evening.I fly them from a portable and found an excellent spot out in the wide open corn/soybean fields here so I only had one attack last year but the years before flew from a park here in town.
Two years ago one Cooper tried for them for almost a month and the last time I flew them from there I watched it land in a tree about 50 yards from me and it didn't even try for them.I think it had had it's fill of chasing them without being successful. Sure, I've lost a few youngbirds but once they get a taste of being chased and succeed they are aweful hard for the BOP to get ahold of.


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## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

That's what I was hoping to here. lol


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

if you want FOR let me know, a friend is selling 20 birds for $500 the husband bloodline. they are awesome i have some fehrholz been trying to breed them to fly some youngins but yea let me know


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## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

I still need to build a good loft for them, but thanks.


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

no problem i mite have some extra in the futher too.


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