# Diamond Dove with Vocal Changes



## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi, everyone.

I hate to enter a new forum with questions; I know it looks bad. But I promise I will not just leech all your knowledge and not contribute. I'm actually a member at Avian Avenue, but the collective knowledge there has sent me looking elsewhere for folks more knowledgeable about birds of the dovey kind!

So just to give you a basis of knowledge:

I have a diamond dove who has been in my care a year and a half. I believe the dove is a male, and I call him Lovey Dove or Dovey (though his "real" name is Gemmy). He was given to me as a birthday gift by a friend, who got him from a pet store. Not a big fan of pet stores, but this little guy is a real prize and I love him to death, and I want to make sure this strange new behavior isn't going to cut our time short.

For background: He currently resides (alone) in a divided flight cage. His cage mate, on the other side of the divider, is a female cockatiel. They cannot access one another. She was taken to a vet about 6 months ago for her semi-annual, and was given a clean bill of health. He has not been to a vet as of this moment, mostly because an unfortunate circumstance drained my vet fund and I'm struggling to make ends meet, and up to now, he's been fine. In his side of the cage is:

a flat bottom (no grating) so he can walk about
a wide, low food dish (so he can ground-feed) which is checked and changed once a day if it becomes contaminated
his water and grit cups (also checked and changed daily)
several perches of different sizes, including small branches, wide branches, flat perches, and nests
plenty of space to fly

The full cage length is about 9 feet, and the width 3 feet. The full height is 6 feet, but the usable height for the birds is 3 feet. So Dovey himself has a space of about 4.5 x 3 x 3. 

The cage is lit with a full-spectrum bulb from AviTech that is on a timer -- switches on at 8 am, off at 8 pm.

Dovey is being fed an Australian seed and oat blend from My Safe Bird Store and also gets supplemental softbill pellets from Zupreem.

Nothing has recently changed (the new cage came in 2.5 months ago) and no new birds have been introduced. The only difference lately is that the window has been open on warm days (I'm in SE Pennsylvania) and the air conditioner was put in the window two weeks ago.

Dovey has always been quiet, except when we come in and out of the bird room/bedroom or whistle/play flute music/etc. In the last month or so, however, his voice has gotten hoarse and a little squeaky. He isn't necessarily quieter, just sounds froggy. Sometimes he is fluffy and tail-bobs; other times, nothing at all. I have tried warming the room, but this does not appear to affect the fluff or bobbing. I've also tried humidity, which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. 

Today, however, I noticed him open-mouth breathing. This lasted for about an hour, at which point I was frantically searching for answers on Avian Avenue to see if I needed to take him to the ER vet. Upon some advice, I picked him up to examine him and listen to his breathing (he steps up for me). He exhibited no distress and did not have a click or wheeze when he breathed. He flew a few laps of the room, and afterwards, the beak-breathing stopped. I ran the shower for a while to give him some heat and humidity, and he preened. He is pooping, eating, and drinking normally, from what I've seen.

My b/f seems to think this could be allergies, and in fact I have noticed that the symptoms do flux a little with the tree pollen index -- when my b/f is sneezy, the dove tail bobs more. But he doesn't seem to be in acute distress of any kind. He continues to TRY and vocalize normally.

As a parrot person, I only really know the "bad three" of breathing problems -- Aspergillosis, airsac mites, and respiratory infection. I'm not sure what the infection rate of these are for doves or pigeons. I also am confused at the fact that exercise and flight seem to REDUCE his respiratory symptoms, which makes no sense for Asper or airsac mites.

Do any of you have any insight? Can diamond doves have seasonal allergies? Do any other ailments affect voice? I can take Dovey to an avian vet in NJ, but I worry about the stress on his system if it isn't necessary, and I will have to use rent money to pay for this, so I want to be sure I'm not panicking for nothing.

I have some video, if that will help -- both of the beak-breathing, and his condition immediately after the beak-breathing stops (right after he flies around the room).

Thanks in advance!

-Erin


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You know Erin...it could be so many things...bacteria, mites, protozoa and while we guess at what the problem might be, and you maybe try different things, spending money, it really would be best to take him to the vet.You'll get quicker results and maybe spend less money in the long run.
Bird are great pretenders ...they act okay as a natural defense against predators because a sick acting bird is an easy target in the wild. Once a bird is noticeably sick...the bird is really sick.


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks, Charis.

I realize that, and it's not the first/only bird situation I've been in. I am well aware of risks and problems in bird-keeping, and I know how well birds can hide illness. My issue now is that it is VERY VERY expensive here to take a bird to the vet, and potentially will cause him great stress or expose him to other illnesses, as well -- especially if these are "normal" behaviors for something non-life threatening. I ask partially because I have certain anxiety issues and tend to over-worry - this has caused me to end up in vet's offices spending money I don't have only to find out that an animal is FINE and I simply needed to relax and assess the situation reasonably. 

I suppose my concern, then, is that he is NOT visibly sick or showing ANY signs of distress other than the vocal change and today's beak-breathing incident, which seems to have been isolated. I'm trying to make sense of that. I've had ill birds before, and he just doesn't look SICK -- it's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. But like I said, I'm a parrot-keeper, and this guy is my first softbill, so I'm not sure if they are different. Do softbills ever exhibit symptoms like this, and then have the symptoms disappear in the span of an hour? Does this mean he's actually sick and just hiding the symptoms? I always thought that once a bird began beak-breathing, it did not stop unless it was treated -- is this incorrect?

My concern is that to take him to a vet, and one that will cost me $300+ if he needs fecal, gram stains, etc, will take almost an hour. Now, driving it's fine for me, but for him? I don't want to strain him if the answer is, "it's allergies". I know that parrots can have allergies and will tail-bob and mouth-breathe from them, and I know that his buddy, CC the cockatiel, is molting and very dusty. So if that's the case, no problem, that I know how to handle.

I have an ER vet here, but that's a thousand-dollar trip and like I said, I just lost my ENTIRE $1200 vet fund in an emergency situation. I am barely scraping by and I do not want to re-home my birds as a result. My cat is insured, but I have not yet found an insurer who will cover doves. (By the by, if anyone knows of one, I'd love to know!)

Truth is, a trip to the vet means I can't pay my rent next month. I made sure that they have food/light/toys/proper housing/filtered water, but that was at the risk that, at least until I get my next round of money from school in July, I would have no vet fund.

I know this is convoluted, and like I said, I'm sorry to bring my problems. Normally I would stay in the group that is familiar with all the issues. But they just aren't sure about diamond dove ailments.

So I guess the ultimate question wasn't "should we go to the vet" but "what kinds of ailments would cause this one, strange, symptom, and does it mean I should take him to the ER RIGHT NOW."

I'm sorry to bother. I realize you don't know me or my situation. I just need some dove-specific information so I can decide what the best course is for myself. I am by no means advocating NOT taking an ill bird to a vet. If I have to beg, borrow, or steal - I will make it happen if he needs it. 

I'm just curious if there is anything I might be missing, before I run to the ER vet and throw down $1,000 to be told that I panicked over nothing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You're right...I don't know your personal situation and honest, I'm not trying to be argumentative but the symptoms can be the result of bacteria, protozoa, mites, yeast, to name a few. 
No...I don't think you need to go to the ER right now.
What do his droppings look like?
Can you at least take his dropping in to be looked at?


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Hey Charis....

Droppings look fine, but yes, I should be able to do that. I've gotten a few vet references from the folks at Avian Ave that might be less expensive, which is great. Today he seems MUCH better, the bobbing has decreased and no mouth breathing. I have seen him eat (vigorously, throwing seeds like he usually does) and drink. 

I did change the a/c filter last night in the hopes of making the air less dusty. I have noticed that when I wake up, my throat kills, so I'm wondering if the dryness of the air was/is affecting his breathing or allowing growth of some kind of bacteria. I know that pigeons can get throat ailments from bacteria, which is a little less common with psittacines.

I'm sorry if I sound cranky. April 25-May 4 is insane for me due to law school finals. I'm probably more paranoid now than ever, and have a short fuse, so I didn't mean to be combative.

Saving some droppings in a baggie. The vet that I got a reference to in NJ is closing in 20 min, but I can call tomorrow and see what they say.

Thanks --

E


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Just a quick update --

A friend saw my questions and offered to help pay for Dovey's vet visit! He is doing all right now, still the same symptoms that come and go. BUT regardless, I am taking him in to the avian vet to see what they have to say.

I would love to hear if anyone has particular questions they think it would be good to ask, or opinions on what tests I should request.

Thanks!

E.


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

So for the record, got the "official" papers a few days ago after Dovey's visit. He has been on Metacam and Flagyl in the hopes that his symptoms (she saw significant saliva near his glottis but heard nothing concerning in his lungs, so believes this is upper respiratory) will clear. However, it is day 4 of 7 for the meds and no significant changes. I did separate him from the cockatiel, as well, but that seems to make no real difference.

I'm adding her notes here, hoping that someone might shed some light. I don't have a lot of money, and returning for bloodwork, etc will cost $706, the full extent of my fund. So if anyone has any brilliant ideas, I'd love to hear them! I've also been posting at Avian Ave hoping for some ideas there, but they're mostly parrot folk.

Thanks, all...



> Mentation: Bright, alert, responsive.
> Hydration status: Good, normal eyelid skin tent.
> Nutritional status: Good, BCS 2.5/5, pelvic bones palpable.
> 
> ...


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Just wanted to update 

Lovey Dove crossed over the Bridge tonight at 5:30 pm. Cause of death was cardiac arrest. We believe he had a stroke. We rushed him to the ER vet on the advice of his current avian vet, where he was placed in oxygen. He was only in oxygen and heat for ten minutes before he began arresting. Ultimately, based on his chances and the invasive nature of the only remaining procedures, we decided even if he were resuscitated, his chances of surviving the treatment for whatever was causing his symptoms was slim.

We have opted for necropsy and hopefully that will give us some clues. Once the necropsy is done we'll get his little memorial.

 

Hopefully our answers will save another bird's life in the future.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Very sorry to hear of your loss. You had to make a very hard decision, but in the end, it probably was the right one. I hope the necropsy gives you some answers.


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks, almondman...

I didn't want to do it. When the tech said, "he's in cardiac arrest, do you want us to do CPR" and then gave me the statistics (likelihood of less than 20% that he would survive) I just didn't have the heart. He waited for me to get home from running errands. He laid in my hands on the car trip to the vet. And all I could picture was the difference between his passing (fairly) peacefully or being shoved onto some table where they tried to pump his poor little giving-out heart in order to make ME feel better.

 I couldn't. Plus the next step would have been scoping him (including sedation) or doing swabs and bloodwork, which if his heart was already so weak were likely to kill him anyway. So the likelihood that he would have survived the diagnostic tests to even START treatment was not high.

I just wish I had done something sooner. I didn't realize. Up until yesterday he was eating, drinking, voiding, looking normal, flying around. Even his avian vet said she thought his symptoms were something simple like an irritant in the air. She was so hoping that the medications would help.

We should hear in 6-8 weeks at the max (if it isn't something obvious on initial necropsy, like a tumor). She said based on the COD, it might have been a blood clot to the brain, a seizure, a stroke...who knows. I just hope that, now that I can't save him, this isn't contagious and my cockatiel doesn't meet the same fate.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I certainly hope your other bird will be alright too. It does sound like it should be. As in humans, cardiac disease can cause illness without warning, and be fatal in a very short time. It also could have been any of the other concerns your Vet mentioned. None of which you could have prevented. It sounds like you did all the right things and nothing more could be expected from you.


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## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Chicobo said:


> Thanks, almondman...
> 
> I didn't want to do it. When the tech said, "he's in cardiac arrest, do you want us to do CPR" and then gave me the statistics (likelihood of less than 20% that he would survive) I just didn't have the heart. He waited for me to get home from running errands. He laid in my hands on the car trip to the vet. And all I could picture was the difference between his passing (fairly) peacefully or being shoved onto some table where they tried to pump his poor little giving-out heart in order to make ME feel better.
> 
> ...


Hello, i know this is an old posting but i hope you might help me out as i am going through a similar issue with my little pigeon. Since getting sick in june,my Pip has been going through strange breathing issues. Phases of tail bobbing, quiet, behaviour. These phases open beak breathing, increased rate of breathing and this weird snorty raspy quacky noise which he does when excited nervous or after exercise, effort. Other than these symptoms, he is 'okay'. He has been going through an ongoing molt since july, which has just picked up speed over the last 2 weeks. i read about your Lovely Dove and wanted to ask if you ever found out what condition he had, and why he died? Its such a sad story  i hope Cc is still doing great .


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

The original poster hasn't been on the forum since May last year.


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## Chicobo (Apr 26, 2012)

I just saw this, I'm so sorry.

I got married and moved halfway across the country, so it took going into my maiden-name e-mail address to see the question.

Hopefully this helps SOMEONE.

The results of the necropsy showed trichomoniasis. 

Ultimately it was in his throat and airways, and though he was put on the correct medication (Flagyl) it just came too late, the vet said. She told us that once they opened up his throat, they saw the extent of the swelling, which was not outwardly visible to her scope.

The cockatiel who lived with him -- CC -- is doing just fine and never showed symptoms. Our vet in Philadelphia thought it was just something he may have had since we got him, from poor water conditions at the pet store, but she couldn't be sure.

I'm so sorry your little one isn't feeling well. I will have to update my email....


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## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Chicobo said:


> I just saw this, I'm so sorry.
> 
> I got married and moved halfway across the country, so it took going into my maiden-name e-mail address to see the question.
> 
> ...


Hello, oh thanks so much for replying!  i saw your private msg a couple days ago but didnt have a chance to reply. Wow so it was just canker, the most heard of thing :/ gah, now i'm even more worried. My little guy doesnt appear to have any growths in his throat. We're currently waiting on culture test results for fungus and streptococcus. Might have to reopen the canker possibility again. I'm glad to hear CC is doing great, and congrats on your wedding!


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## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Oops i'm sorry, i forgot to ask...why did your bird go into cardiac arrest? Was that due to the meds overpowerinv him or due to the canker? I'm always paranoid about medicating my birds andam already stressing over vets treatment plan come tuesday. Should i be worried if its flagyl we need to use?


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