# Grouse Legged



## Johncat (Sep 3, 2008)

Can anyone shed any light on the difference between grouse legged (gr) and Hosen or grouse legged (H)?
Obviously one is recessive and the other dominant .... but do they look the same?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*They are the same*

In genetic terms, there is no grouse leg, only Hosen, which means grouse legged.

Bill


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## Johncat (Sep 3, 2008)

So ..... are you saying that grouse is always dominant? 
Does gene symbolised 'gr' not exist then?
I'm now more confused!!!


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Not that I can find*

I only find H, listed as grouse. This does indicate dominance but it will diminish if you keep breeding away from it which means it's not completely dominant.

Bill


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## Johncat (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok .... thanks for that


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*gr*

* Hi BILL and JOHNCAT, gr is listed in the book by Axel Sell, Breeding and Inheritance in Pigeons,on page 135-136"The foot feathering differs very much in the various breeds. The larger muffs of some breeds are caused by the combined effect of two different genes which individually produce a lesser degree of foot feathering:the recessive factor grouse (gr) causing medium-muffed birds like the Persian Tumbler and the partial-dominant factor Slipper (Sl)"affecting a shorter foot feathering as in the English Pouter...........so we do have two genes for foot feathering gr for grouse and Sl for slipper* GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks George*

I don't have Sell's book yet but it's not in Gibson's or Quinn's. 

There are actually quite a few genes that get into different kinds of muffs and so forth but I could only find one for grouse, which was listed as H for hosen.

I do wish that these guys could get together before they start naming genes or jumping to conclusions and proclaiming something as new or different. I'm actually trying to work on that but this may never end. It seems that there is nothing stopping anyone from naming a gene whether it exists or not or whether it is new or old. Corrections continue as we learn more but opinions are often what gets written as fact.

I cannot believe how much confusion still exists in pigeon genetics after people have been breeding them for thousands of years. It seems impossible to get everyone to agree on just what is what. I really do hope that we can get our act together and sort some of these mysteries out and I'm working on doing just that. Part of the problem is that there are sometimes many ways to make a bird look a certain way and around the world, completely different sets of genes have gone into making what looks the same.

Bill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Hi BILL, The word HOSEN, is German,and it means trousers,or leggens yet in his book he uses gr and Sl.* GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi George*



george simon said:


> * Hi BILL, The word HOSEN, is German,and it means trousers,or leggens yet in his book he uses gr and Sl.* GEORGE


Yeah, I know, like leiderhosen, which must mean short pants.

Just seems funny that the German author uses gr for grouse leg and the American author uses H for hosen and calls it the same as grouse leg.

Now, between two books we have a question instead of an answer. This is the stuff that drives me nuts.

Any time I ever crossed feather legged breeds to clean legs, I got in between type feather legs, ie some feathers. This suggests a certain amount of dominance. Then again, you can get feather legs from clean legs which only adds to the confusion. Apparently, at least some of them are recessives. I'll leave it at that cuz I don't really know the answers.

Bill


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