# Red Cell



## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Whats the general census on giving birds Red Cell multi-vitamin supplement to your pigeons? Is Red Cell the best or most economical? Do you see a difference in the birds feathers after using it? Last but not least Would you say it helps bring your birds into "Top Form"? or is there a better supplement I should try?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Red Cell is very good for your birds and other animals. Its for Horses?
I have always heard that a pigeon can-not overdose on Vitamins. They keep what they need and pass the rest.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Red Cell is very good for your birds and other animals. Its for Horses?
> I have always heard that a pigeon can-not overdose on Vitamins. They keep what they need and pass the rest.


Sounds good..do your birds feathers seem "softer" after using it?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I give my birds Flax seed for the feathers-a tea spoon for 25 birds ever day-makes them slick as a Watermellon seed and I think it also makes them waterproff [a little anyways ] so they can fly in the rain a litttle longer/farther before they have to set down. May be close enough to home to make it


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I use it and my birds do seem to do better with it, esp if they are on an all grain diet, it is vitamin-iron-mineral supplement, and a little goes a long way and it last a long time so keep it in the house in a cool dark place, I was able to find a 1 quart red-cell rather than the gallon you see in the feedstores, you could ask for the 1 quart one as the gallon one would last you well...forever...LOL.


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Red Cell is very good for your birds and other animals. Its for Horses?
> I have always heard that a pigeon can-not overdose on Vitamins. They keep what they need and pass the rest.





Just FYI...


Too much of red cell will kill your birds due to Iron poisoning. you will see this iron on dark droppings. I have been using red cell for 15 years and I have seen birds die from it. red cell is a very good vitamin just don't over use it on your birds.


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## redleg23 (May 6, 2009)

I use it in my drinking water once a week, aprox. one tablespoon per gallon. I have never had a problem, and as stated very economical.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

redleg23 said:


> I use it in my drinking water once a week, aprox. one tablespoon per gallon. I have never had a problem, and as stated very economical.


same here..


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I've only heard good things about it so I will order some soon. Thank You Sky TX for the tip about Flax Seed..I'll order some that too.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> I've only heard good things about it so I will order some soon. Thank You Sky TX for the tip about Flax Seed..I'll order some that too.


You shouldn't have to order it. Just head over to a feed store or TSC. If you buy the gallon then you never have an excuse not to give it.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> You shouldn't have to order it. Just head over to a feed store or TSC. If you buy the gallon then you never have an excuse not to give it.


Thanx I did'nt know Red Cell was sold locally. I'll go to Tractor Supply tomorrow.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

In the equine section with the wheat germ oil and other things to spend money on.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

sky tx said:


> Red Cell is very good for your birds and other animals. Its for Horses?
> *I have always heard that a pigeon can-not overdose on Vitamins*. They keep what they need and pass the rest.


 I respectfully would suggest, that when one that hears such things, that they have heard wrong. Depends if the vitamins are what they call "fat soluble". Vitamins are classified as either water-soluble or fat soluble. Fat-soluble vitamins are absorbed through the intestinal tract with the help of lipids (fats). Because they are more likely to accumulate in the body, they are more likely to lead to hypervitaminosis than are water-soluble vitamins. In other words, they can become toxic to the body. 

See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A

So yes, take too much of those horse vitamins solutions, and you could do much more harm then good...like maybe blow out the kidneys on your birds. I highly suspect, that some fanciers end up doing exactly that.....too much of too many good things...can be bad for you and bad for your birds. Your Avian Vet should be able to confirm that with you.

What Dr. Walker has said on the subject : http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

*Everything in balance*

In addition to there being adequate levels of vitamins in the diet, *it is important that they are not given in overdose*. For example, overdose of vitamin A interferes with the absorption of vitamin E and vitamin D3. In extreme overdose, 20 - 100 times the recommended dose, *vitamin A can cause weight loss, decreased food intake, inflammation of the mouth and eyelids and decreased bone strength. *It is also important that vitamins are given in the correct proportion relative to each other. The most obvious example of a vitamin interrelationship is the *effect of the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins in which an excess of one will decrease the absorption of the others due to competition for absorption sites in the lining of the bowel.* For this reason, it is necessary that all fat-soluble vitamins be balanced with respect to one another to ensure proper absorption of them all. Some vitamins interact directly in the metabolism of certain compounds. This means that if there is a deficiency in one, this would lead to increased requirements for the others. *Conversely increased supplementation in one can mean that one of the others is proportionately low and therefore deficient. *
Vitamins cannot only interact with each other but also with other substances such as amino acids (the building blocks off proteins) and minerals. The most significant relationship between vitamins and minerals is the relationship between calcium, phosphorus and vitamin D3. It is obligatory for adequate vitamin D3 too be available for the proper absorption of both of these minerals to take place. Inadequate vitamin D3 levels in the body can lead to calcium deficiency symptoms in an otherwise calcium-adequate diet. Conversely, too much vitamin D3 can cause excessive absorption in a marginal diet. Another example is the relationship between vitamin E and selenium. These two do essentially the same job. If one is deficient, then the other can make up the difference. A similar thing happens with the vitamin niacin and the amino acid tryptophan. If there is a lot of tryptophan in the diet, then less niacin is required. 

Vitamins are also affected by the levels of protein and fat in the diet and other dietary components. For example, a high-protein diet leads to increased requirements for some vitamins in the B group while a low fat /high starch diet leads to an increased demand for thiamine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is true. Some vitamins which are stored in the body, or fat soluble, can be very bad if given too often The bird could have an overload. Water soluble, the birds body takes what it needs, and passes the rest out. So too much of a good thing can really be harmful. I think some people way over do it with the vitamins.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

*Thanx*



sky tx said:


> I give my birds Flax seed for the feathers-a tea spoon for 25 birds ever day-makes them slick as a Watermellon seed and I think it also makes them waterproff [a little anyways ] so they can fly in the rain a litttle longer/farther before they have to set down. May be close enough to home to make it


I picked up a 32oz bottle today at my local feedstore $7.95..Thanx for the warning Warren I only plan on giving a teaspoon to a gallon of water once a week as a supplement. This quart should last me a year at this rate. I also bought 2 pounds of ground flax seed..My question is if dripple some honey on my seed feed and sprinkle a tablespoon of ground flax seed and mix it all together before introducing it to the birds...would this "sweet feed" get clogged in thier crop? I have heard of drippling Cod liver oil and sprinkling brewers yeast but never any mention of honey. Anyone think I would have any problems with my idea for a "sweet feed"? <drizzled honey over seeds with a table spoon of flax seed mixed in>


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy the flax seed that isn't ground. That way you wouldn't have to add the honey. Just mix it in with the other seeds. Mine eat it.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

my pigeon feed mix has flax seeds in it, so that makes it easy for me.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

O K Folks--Guess I have made my last post on this site.I post something I know works for pigeons--maybe not give enough info- Then it is several posts that I am wrong.
Makes me wonder how/why I was on the First page of results [ NOT always at the top] but in the top 10% a lot.-some of my birds were raced for 6 years---I think a pigeon is in its "prime' 3-6 years old. Had 1 bird that flew a 500 mile race for 6 years--the last year I raced him it took him 29 days to come home from the 500.
I wish this site had been on 30 years ago--Maybe I could have done better because I did not Know what I was doing wrong.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sky tx said:


> O K Folks--Guess I have made my last post on this site.I post something I know works for pigeons--maybe not give enough info- Then it is several posts that I am wrong.
> Makes me wonder how/why I was on the First page of results [ NOT always at the top] but in the top 10% a lot.-some of my birds were raced for 6 years---I think a pigeon is in its "prime' 3-6 years old. Had 1 bird that flew a 500 mile race for 6 years--the last year I raced him it took him 29 days to come home from the 500.
> I wish this site had been on 30 years ago--Maybe I could have done better because I did not Know what I was doing wrong.


Don't go getting all sensitive. People are just adding info. on vitamins. Some vitamins they do take what they need and pass the rest, as you said. But some vitamins and minerals can build up and be bad for them, if given too many or too often. That's true of anything. Something good is not good if given too much. That's all.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

sky tx said:


> I give my birds Flax seed for the feathers-a tea spoon for 25 birds ever day-makes them slick as a Watermellon seed and I think it also makes them waterproff [a little anyways ] so they can fly in the rain a litttle longer/farther before they have to set down. May be close enough to home to make it


Nice tip, I am going to start adding this to my feed. Thanks...


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> You can buy the flax seed that isn't ground. That way you wouldn't have to add the honey. Just mix it in with the other seeds. Mine eat it.


The only way I could get whole Flax Seed is to buy a 50lb bag..I was busy today so I did'nt have to time to hit every feedstore in my area. Now I own this ground flax seed..do ya think I should sprinkle it on my seed feed dry or wait intill I can get the liquid cod liver oil and use that to "lube" the seeds with so the ground flax seed will stick? or try the honey and see if any of the birds go feet up? ~ kidding


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

Uncle Sam Cereal has mucho flax seed it, eat it up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

jAxTecH said:


> The only way I could get whole Flax Seed is to buy a 50lb bag..I was busy today so I did'nt have to time to hit every feedstore in my area. Now I own this ground flax seed..do ya think I should sprinkle it on my seed feed dry or wait intill I can get the liquid cod liver oil and use that to "lube" the seeds with so the ground flax seed will stick? or try the honey and see if any of the birds go feet up? ~ kidding


I bought a small bag in a super market here. I'd go with the oil rather than the honey.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm wondering if it would be a problem getting the pigeons to eat flax.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

eyespyer said:


> Nice tip, I am going to start adding this to my feed. Thanks...


 Or....feed a quality pigeon pellet like Purina Green & Gold, and all that good stuff is allready in the pellet. No need to buy all that extra stuff in order to provide an ideal diet.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I used Only the Purina Gold for several years--the birds did good --But I only flew up 300 miles at that time. Left it in front of them 24/7.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

grifter said:


> I'm wondering if it would be a problem getting the pigeons to eat flax.


I bought a 50lb bag of rolled barley a few weeks back because of some articles I read suggested it. It is absolutely the last thing my birds eat. Anyone have birds that even like rolled Barley? Is it a acquired taste or are my birds over feed and getting too picky?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jAxTecH said:


> I bought a 50lb bag of rolled barley a few weeks back because of some articles I read suggested it. It is absolutely the last thing my birds eat. Anyone have birds that even like rolled Barley? Is it a acquired taste or are my birds over feed and getting too picky?


Ive have bought mixes with it in it, and they leave it in the feeder. if I cut back the feed Im sure they would eat it.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

I don't like the rolled barley. The rolled barley is long and has a "tail" usually. I use malt barley. Take a handful and put it in a glass of water, if it floats it's no good. 
It's still going to be the last thing they eat but that's how you know if they are really hungry. If the barley is still there then their just being picky and not that hungry.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Or....feed a quality pigeon pellet like Purina Green & Gold, and all that good stuff is already in the pellet. No need to buy all that extra stuff in order to provide an ideal diet.


If they sold Purina pigeon feed here locally I would try it. The only way I can get it now is to order it a month in advance through my club or buy it online and pay crazy freight shipping charges. Once my Racing loft is finished I do plan on trying the Purina Gold. Thanx for the tip.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> I don't like the rolled barley. The rolled barley is long and has a "tail" usually. I use malt barley. Take a handful and put it in a glass of water, if it floats it's no good.
> It's still going to be the last thing they eat but that's how you know if they are really hungry. If the barley is still there then their just being picky and not that hungry.


I thought I was getting a "deal" on 50lbs for $14.50...live and ya learn. I had to buy a extra large storage bin to mix it in with my "speed feed" (racing mix) Now it looks like I have a enough to last me intill the end of the year at this rate.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jAxTecH said:


> If they sold Purina pigeon feed here locally I would try it. The only way I can get it now is to order it a month in advance through my club or buy it online and pay crazy freight shipping charges. Once my Racing loft is finished I do plan on trying the Purina Gold. Thanx for the tip.


Jax, any of these stores should beable to get it for you.

http://www.purinamills.com/DealerLocator/Default.aspx?SearchType=Z&ZipCode=32099


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> Jax, any of these stores should be able to get it for you.
> 
> http://www.purinamills.com/DealerLocator/Default.aspx?SearchType=Z&ZipCode=32099


I did ask before and they said they can't order just one bag. They told me they used to order pigeon feed but stopped because it goes bad on the shelf. I am pretty much "stocked" up on my feed right now anyway. I have at least 100lbs for 18 birds. Which leads me to another question..does everyone just throw away the uneaten seed or do ya feed it to chickens/qual/pheasants? I think if I tried to compost it would attract rodents.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

jAxTecH said:


> I've only heard good things about it so I will order some soon. Thank You Sky TX for the tip about Flax Seed..I'll order some that too.


*Hi JAXTeck,iF YOU HAVE A HEALTH FOOD STORE NEAR BY YOU COULD BUY FLAX SEED THERE THAT WAY YOU COULD BUY IT IN SMALL AMOUNTS AND YOU WOULD SAVE SHIPPING CHARGES.* GEORGE


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jAxTecH said:


> I did ask before and they said they can't order just one bag. They told me they used to order pigeon feed but stopped because it goes bad on the shelf. I am pretty much "stocked" up on my feed right now anyway. I have at least 100lbs for 18 birds. Which leads me to another question..does everyone just throw away the uneaten seed or do ya feed it to chickens/qual/pheasants? I think if I tried to compost it would attract rodents.


I feed it to the wild birds, but really do not have to do it often, only when I want to clean the feeders, otherwise I let the birds finish what they have before giving more. Also, if you really want to use the pellets in the future, call another store, I have several purina dealers around here and will order a bag without hesitation, and it is in the next week, the feed store needs to be a purina dealer.


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