# Toy stencil/opal



## bundyray (Nov 7, 2009)

G'day i've recently just purchased 2pr of Ice pigeon and was just wondering if toy stencil is the same as opal? lil unsure but opal takes place of back? The Ice pigeons' has the white bars (except the barless 1 ) with pencil line black so does white bars just mean toy stencil? Also with patterns as I only have bars will I ever see spangle if it as dominant pattern shows? so if they have bars they can be split for barless but not spangle? look forward to hearing from you, will post pics but they need lil time to settle.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Hi,

Strictly speaking toy stencil is NOT the same as opal (or more correctly dominant opal). It is true that opal can cause white bars, as well as lacing (or spangle), but this trait is most commonly associated with the toy stencil complex of genes.

Since the ice pigeon is part of the German toy group (at least in some classifications) I believe that their white pattern markings are due to the toy stencil gene complex.

You are correct in assuming that you cannot breed a spangle (or laced) from the barred, or barless birds that you have. Spangle is a check patterned bird where the pattern is marked in white (with black edges) due to the toy stencil gene. You cannot breed checkered birds from barred or barless, since the more dominant check gene cannot be hidden underneath the recessive wild-type (bar) or barless genes.

Kind regards,
Rudolph


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## bundyray (Nov 7, 2009)

Awesome thank-you Rudolph, probably was being lil optimistic in hoping to breed spangle


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, toy stencil and opal are different, and checks (spangles are toy stenciled checks) cannot be carried by bars or barless. They've also introduced frill stencil in Ice Pigeons, which makes a really pretty bird too. I have not seen any in the US though, just Germany I believe.


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## bundyray (Nov 7, 2009)

Frill on the Ice pigeon could be rather nice but would they loose the softness of the feather?


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## to many pigeons (Feb 6, 2011)

i have starlings with lace ,marbled and barred ,can all these be breed together ,without ruining the colours.is the marbled like a t check and the laced a lightly checked bird.also some starling bared r losing the white and going black [bars r visible but black ]what is going on here


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

As long as they are laced/white barred, checked, etc. then they can be bred together. But of course you do not want to breed a bird in that has regular bars.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

bundyray said:


> Frill on the Ice pigeon could be rather nice but would they loose the softness of the feather?


I don't think so.


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