# splayed leg help and vets in NYC



## turkeyman (Jul 23, 2002)

Does anyone have any info about how to correct a pigeon chick with a splayed leg ? I've been looking online and I can't seem to figure out how this is done. Can anyone help me?

Also I've been looking for a Vet, Clinic or Animal hospital in the New York area but no one seems to want to even take a look at this lttle chick. Went already to three today and no one takes "wild animals"!?, including the Animal Hospital at 62nd street. Would anyone know of any where else that I could try in the New York area? I live in Queens. 

Thx All


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi!

Hang in there, as this may well be correctable.

Meanwhile, check the Pigeon-Talk archives of this website--I know this has been addressed before.

--Ray


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Okay, I see searching the archive is a bit daunting a task--I even gave up on it. I also see that your earlier query was never really answered, and that you did not provide full information.

Really, guys, when describing a problem, please provide full, descriptive information. You waste valuable turn around time by making others ask questions like, "how old is the baby pigeon?"

A proper nesting bowl with appropriate traction will prevent this from happening.

Anyway, I did a little research for you (see below)...

*****

Here's what "AVIAN MEDICINE: PRINCIPALS AND APPLICATION (Ritchie, Harrison And Harrison, HBD International, Inc. 1999), has to say, in part, on splayed legs:

Section Four, Chapter 30, Page 830, to wit:

"...Birds with this condition will have one or both legs splayed laterally from the hip or stifle(Figure 30.24). Mild deformities can be treated by packing the bird in a deep cup with tissue or towel padding to take pressure off the legs. More severe deformities and those in older birds require a fixation device in addition to packing in a cup. The chick can be taped over a foam rubber pad or sanitary napkin, or placed in a piece of foam with slits cut for the legs. As an alternative, the legs can be hobbled together with elastic tape at the tarsometatarsus and if needed across the tibiotarsus. The hobble sites should be padded with cotton and care should be taken not to tape too tightly. The hobble should be changed every two to four days to allow growth. More severe deformities require more rigid fixation...A suspension method of treating this condition has been reported."

*****

While I've splinted a broken toe, I've never done this one. The advice is in keeping with what I've heard, though. 

My friend, Marian, knows how to correct this--if one can flag her attention.

The sooner this is addressed, the better. It's tougher to correct in older birds.

Illustration a) shows a chick, on its back, with one leg positioned normally, and the other jutting off, flat against the body, to the eleven o'clock position (twelve o'clock being the bird's head). Illustration b) shows the fix, in this case, to be two stacked little soft foam blocks, with the baby's legs poking through them, in a normal position.

Clearly, the bird will not be able to walk with this "hobble" in place.

I would be very gentle repositioning the limb that's askew. Hell, for all we know, the leg is simply dislocated.

Anybody out there ever fixed one of these?

--Ray


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi All,

Yes, often splayed legs are fairly easily fixable. Other times, it requires surgery and pinning. I also went looking for a very good diagram that I used to know where to find and didn't find it. Anyway, here is a post from WLREHAB about splayed legs that may help:

Terry Whatley
---------------------------------------------
Hi Everyone,

I saw the following post on the WLREHAB list today and thought
it might be of interest to some of you.

Terry Whatley
---------------------------------------------

In addition to what Marge and others have stated so well, I was forwarded this information sometime back and thought this information may be useful for this thread.
The following treatments are from Helen Fahlsing, a bird rehabber, in Texas. Helen's techniques can be used on most any specie of bird with excellent results. 
She recommends several techniques to correct splay leg - depending on the age of the bird, severity and direction of the splay. Occasionally positioning the legs suspended under the birds body and propping the bird up in a padded container will be sufficient to re-align the legs. if this is not sufficient - other techniques are described below.
If you get the chick early enough, you will usually notice improvement within a few days. Some birds have responded in a few as three days - others have had the braces on for several weeks with no signs of improvement. Of course, the cause of the splay is going to have some bearing on the amount of time and the quality of improvement that can be expected The severity of the splay and the age of the bird are also critical factors. NONE OF THESE METHODS WILL WORK IF THE LEG OR HIP SOCKETS ARE DEFORMED. This is why x-rays are so important when improvement is not readily noted. The x-rays may indicate a need for more intense splinting by medical personnel or surgery.
Once you find a chick with splay leg you need to start investigating the cause - lack of calcium, poor positioning in the egg, genetic deformity, trauma, were the parents sitting "too tight" (most often seen in the coldest part of winter) and the most common reason - nothing on the bottom of the nest box/container for the little feet and toes to hold onto. The weight of the chick pushes the legs out to the side. 
1. Using a soft rubber (vinyl) medical tubing (purchased form a medical supply store); cut small pieces the length of the leg. Slit the cut pieces lengthwise so it can be opened and wrapped around the leg (one for each leg if this is the case). This makes a little soft rubber "cast" or leg support. DO NOT use the clear oxygen or fish air tubing, this can rub on the legs, cutting the fragile skin and leave open wounds. Cut a narrow piece of vet wrap (or any self-sticking elastic bandage) 4 to 8 inches long (length is determined from the size of the bird). "FIGURE-8" this wrap around the two legs, crossing in the middle. Go around one leg, cross in the middle, around the back of the other leg, cross in the middle, etc. continue until you have enough thickness in between the legs to keep them in a natural spacing. DO NOT stretch the wrap and pull it to tight, this may restrict circulation in the legs.
When using this method, you may have to prop the bird in a bowl padded with an absorbent material. I prefer using an appropriate sized flower pot with an old cotton wash cloth to pad the inside of the pot and it's rim. You could also use washcloths or pieces of cotton diapers to make small "bed rolls" to hold the youngster in an upright position. Make sure you remove the braces at least once a day and check the circulation in the legs. Make sure the braces aren't too tight and rubbing sores on the legs. This is also a good time to do a little "physical therapy" by rubbing the legs, submerging them in warm water and working the toes, bending the knees, etc. 
2. Using a small piece of a styrofoam meat tray, cut into a square (about 2" square - size again depends on the size of the bird). Cut a couple of small holes/openings in the middle of the square so that you can pull the feet through. This will work to keep the legs in alignment until you can gather supplies for a better system. Remember that the styrofoam can rub sores on the ankles and older chicks will take an intense interest in pecking at the little white pieces of styrofoam. In lieu of pulling the feet through the holes, you can use paper surgical tape to tape he feet flat on the surface of the styrofoam. This will also work if you are working with toes that are out of alignment. This is only a stop-gap method. 
Bubble wrap (the plastic bubble material used for packing breakables) can also be used as a temporary measure similar to the styrofoam. Pull the legs together in bubble wrap and secure with tape. Make sure you put something for spacing in between the legs. Also, remember, this is plastic and will not allow the skin to breathe. Remove a couple of times every day and allow the legs to "air dry."
3. Apply leg bands to both legs and use dental floss to tie the bands together, pulling the legs into alignment. Remember to put a folded piece of soft material such as sponge or gauze between the legs to keep them from pulling to close together. This is by far the easiest of the methods I use, however, it may also may contribute to some "knee" deformities by pulling the legs too close together at the ankles. This is why a "spacer" between the legs is so important. Also observe closely for open sores where the bands rub the legs. You want the bands tight enough so the feet don't slip out, but loose enough to allow for good circulation. I find the small plastic spiral bands work for the tiny birds - or the colored plastic spiral bands (usually used for chickens and poultry) work for the larger birds or older chicks. Make sure the bands you put on are OPEN bands so they can easily be removed.
---------------------------------------------


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Thanks for the very informative directions.
Regards,
Carl


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## constantin (Mar 2, 2001)

Call Dr.Schaubhut's office, 212-674-8640. He treats pigeons free of charge. His office is in East Village.


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## turkeyman (Jul 23, 2002)

Thanks all for your answers. I hope to be able to help this little bird.

Turkeyman


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## B. Crowe (Mar 4, 2002)

try this link http://www.parrotparrot.com/splay/ 

the same method can be used on pigeons.....

Barb


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## turkeyman (Jul 23, 2002)

Hello,

Just wanted to let you all know that after taking the little chick to the vet that Constantin suggested he seems to be much better. The pigeon had a broken leg and also the leg out of the socket, and the vet operated at no charge. It was really nice to find a vet that actually cares for animals. Coco, the pigeon, is still recovering but he is already able to stand up, although still limps, and he is esting more and finally squeaking.

Thanks all for your help

Turkeyman


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

That is excellent news!









Was the leg subsequently hobbled, casted, or was the bird suspended to promote healing?

You and others really went the distance for this little guy!









PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## PigeonFinder (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by turkeyman:
> *Also I've been looking for a Vet, Clinic or Animal hospital in the New York area but no one seems to want to even take a look at this lttle chick. Went already to three today and no one takes "wild animals"!?, including the Animal Hospital at 62nd street. Would anyone know of any where else that I could try in the New York area? I live in Queens. *


When I took my pigeon in for his first vet visit (just to see if everything was in working order after I decided to keep him as a pet), I took him to the Animal Medical Center on 62nd St. in Manhattan and it was fine. The vet was delighted that I had decided to take him in (and she said that my bird had a great personality, to boot







). I had specifically made an appointment with an avian vet, however (Dr. Wade). If you just bring the bird in, the receptionists at the front desks (both on the 1st and 2nd floor) may look at you a bit funny. 

Eden

[This message has been edited by PigeonFinder (edited August 08, 2002).]


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## turkeyman (Jul 23, 2002)

Hello,

Unfortunately our experience there (Animal medical Ctr) was different. We never even got a chance to see the doctor. The receptionist on the second floor(I believe). Seemed like she was horrified that we were even bringing in a pigeon! They told us that in order for them to look at it I would have to sign a paper taking responsibility(what ever that means)for it. 
I asked her if I could have the pigeon back afterwards and she told me that the bird was a wild animal, and that I was NOT allowed to have a wild animal. I asked her can we at least see the bird after, and again was told no. We thought that we a bit suspitious, and felt like they might just put it to sleep. So we didn’t bother. 

Fortunatley User-Constantin suggested to us a Dr. in the village who not only operated on this guy but wanted to see it for follow up visits- ALL FOR FREE!
It turned out that it was a dislocation and broken leg.

Turkeyman


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## turkeyman (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by constantin:
> *Call Dr.Schaubhut's office, 212-674-8640. He treats pigeons free of charge. His office is in East Village.*


thanks Constantin for all your help

CoCo's doing fine

Turkeyman


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Maybe the Animal Medical Center has changed their minds about pigeons now that Mary has been there a few times.









Julie


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## constantin (Mar 2, 2001)

I'm glad that Coco is doing fine. Regarding AMC I had the same bad experience so I'll never bring ANY animal there.


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## PigeonFinder (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by turkeyman:
> *
> They told us that in order for them to look at it I would have to sign a paper taking responsibility(what ever that means)for it.*
> 
> ...


I think we've had this discussion on the board before--whether or not pigeons are technically wild animals. I believe they're actually not wild animals, but of course there's no point in arguing with the receptionist about it. It really is a shame that the "front line" care givers at the AMC are so rude, because in my experience, their avian vets and facilities are really good. I took my parrot there once when he was in extreme respiratory distress. They immediately put him in an oxygenated cage, their diagnosis of the problem was quick, and their follow up care was excellent. If I had taken him to my neighborhood avian vet, I think he would've died. 

Eden


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## Pijn (May 17, 2002)

Though you'll probably fix the legs yourself, we might as well collect good pigeon doctors in the NYC area - 

The AMC sometimes takes good care of pigeons. Remember - their staff varies.

Schaubhut is great - we took a very sick pij there once. (Constantin - thanks for the spelling!) His number is 212 674-8640.

There's a doctor in Manhattan at the SPCA called Michael Krinsley who cared for a few pigeons i'd found. I'd recommend him, too. But he's not in every day. Their number is 212 876-7700. 

If you go a different day, you're likely to get an intern who wants to learn about birds. Not worth it. 

If you go Krinsley's days, you'll save money, and he's a lot better than the SPCA as measured by humane law enforcement!

And there's one in Nassau County whose name i can't find, right now. She's right near a train station on the southern line (for those city people without cars). If i don't post the name and phone number, please remind me.

[This message has been edited by Pijn (edited August 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Pijn (edited August 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Pijn (edited August 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Pijn (edited August 12, 2002).]


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Seems like that receptionist was confused, turkeyman. Unbanded pigeons are wild birds - the 'feral' just labels their origins (centuries back). But, of course, they are not protected under the migratory bird treaty so it's not like giving someone back, say, a blackbird or a wren which is, I'm sure, forbidden under federal laws.


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