# abandon baby pigeons need home



## pigeon2luv

I am new to the pigeon talk and i am not familar with the pigeon breed. 
All i know, these are pigeon from the park. I am currently handfeeding baby pigeons. I would like to know where to take them. Also, my neighbors about 30 complaints to the Maricopa County enviromental about the pigeons. We took all our bird feeders down and bird bath and quit feeding the pigeons that comes at early am and leave at dark.
How long does it take without food and water will the pigeon quit coming to our property. The baby pigeons parents were poison by a pest control company. They are the one that went door to door to have the neighbors call and complaint about the pigeons on our roof. We would like to get a well known pest control to take care of the pigeon problem. thank you.


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## Charis

Thank you for feeding the orphaned baby pigeons. I will send a message to several of our members in Arizona to see if they can help you find a rehabber.
When did you take your feeders down?
In my opinion, all pest control companies whether well know or not approach pigeons in a similar way and that is with poison.


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## pigeon2luv

*you are welcome*



Charis said:


> Thank you for feeding the orphaned baby pigeons. I will send a message to several of our members in Arizona to see if they can help you find a rehabber.
> When did you take your feeders down? when i got the warning-2/29/08
> 
> In my opinion, all pest control companies whether well know or not approach pigeons in a similar way and that is with poison.



i found a site -to look up pest control company. http://www.kellysolutions.com/az/searchbyconame.asp
i did not find the pest control company at this site.

i counted 12 babies, still yellow fuzz. and 6 older one learning to feed each other. One is pure white, some brown and other is like gray and white.

the parents i noticed had 2 leg band on both legs and some had one band on leg. some were white, chocolate and the rest were gray. also, there were parakeets, lovebirds, cockatiels feeding on the feeders beside wildbirds.


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## Charis

How many babies do you have in your possession?


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## xxmoxiexx

You actually physically HAVE the babies? Or they are still outside? The parents were banded? That is WAY illegal for them to poison a banded bird! You should and can do something about that, i am sure!


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## pigeon2luv

*18 babies*

12 still have some yellow fuzz.
6 learning to eat.
i found them in flower pot, hanging planter. oh my goodness.
it was like an easter egg hunt.

I been feeding them Kaytee exact hand feeding formula for all baby birds.


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## Charis

I'm furious at you neighbors. I can't say all I'm feeling on this forum.
I have sent a private message to 2 of our members in Mesa and asked them to look in on this thread to see if they can help you.
18 babies is an emergeny situation. I am going to send you a private message.


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## Whitefeather

pigeon2luv said:


> 12 still have some yellow fuzz.
> 6 learning to eat.
> i found them in flower pot, hanging planter. oh my goodness.
> it was like an easter egg hunt.
> 
> I been feeding them Kaytee exact hand feeding formula for all baby birds.


Hello Pigeon2luv. 

I'm Cindy & live in Mesa.
There are a couple of us who can hopefully help you out.

Bear with me as I have a few questions that will hopefully expedite assisting you with the babies.

1) Do you have a total of 18 babies? 
2) Are any of the babies needing to be tube fed?
3) The six babies that you say are learning to eat, are they learning to eat seeds?
4) Could you click on this link, look through the pictures & let us know about how old the babies are that you have?
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=25391

Cindy


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## xxmoxiexx

oh, ok, you do know how to tube feed the babies then? Bless your heart for all you do for the pigeons, that is SICKENING! I am going to freaking CALL that pest company in the morning! Please have bail money ready in case i get arrested for all the bad, mean, words i will say! Hey, freedom of speech, right?

Charis, how can we move this thread to sick or injured? Or a thread more people see?


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## Charis

xxmoxiexx said:


> oh, ok, you do know how to tube feed the babies then? Bless your heart for all you do for the pigeons, that is SICKENING! I am going to freaking CALL that pest company in the morning! Please have bail money ready in case i get arrested for all the bad, mean, words i will say! Hey, freedom of speech, right?
> 
> Charis, how can we move this thread to sick or injured? Or a thread more people see?


I'll bail you out...no problem!


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## Whitefeather

xxmoxiexx said:


> oh, ok, you do know how to tube feed the babies then? Bless your heart for all you do for the pigeons, that is SICKENING! I am going to freaking CALL that pest company in the morning! Please have bail money ready in case i get arrested for all the bad, mean, words i will say! Hey, freedom of speech, right?
> 
> *Charis, how can we move this thread to sick or injured? Or a thread more people see?*


Thanks Moxie.  
I didn't even notice it was in the Other Bird forum. I just moved the thread. 

Cindy


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## mr squeaks

Pigeon2luv...

We will do want we can to help.

Here is some imformation that may be helpful. 

There is an AZ Pigeon Club. They may also have some suggestions to help you. I believe some may live in your area.

*Gary Miller, President*

Hm: 602-995-0721
Cell: 602-339-6269

*Ed Zwar, Vice President*

623-388-4789

Please keep us updated.

Shi


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## TAWhatley

Sorry to be getting here late on this one .. looks like our Arizona members are working on this. If there is anything I can do, somebody please holler. 

There are wildlife rehabs in AZ that will take pigeons. Dave Roth at the Urban Wildlife Society may be another resource when it comes to publicity and whether the actions taken by the pest control were legal or not. 

Terry


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## maryjane

Thank you for saving all of these babies. I think you officially qualify as a Guardian Angel. Sounds like your neighbors--as well as the pest company-- all need to be taken out back and shot. Hopefully you can get some help from some of our members soon. That's a lot of babies! If this helps, this is the hand-feeding method I have found easiest, for me and for the babies, after I've tried several:

http://picasaweb.google.com/awrats3333/BabyFeeding

Please keep us updated and feel free to ask any questions at all.


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## Whitefeather

Kim has about 7 cages/carriers that can be utilized.

I'll take 4 or 5 of the babies & Kim can take 3-4.
If any of our other AZ members can take 1-2-3, it would be a great help.

Cindy


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## TAWhatley

Another possible resource: http://www.adlaz.org/phoenix/

Dave Roth's phone: Urban Wildlife Society 602-ANIMALS (602-264-6257) or 602-265-4320 .. those are all I had in my info or found on-line.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Terry


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## pigeon2luv

*thank you*

logging off to finish feeding babies


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## TAWhatley

I've gotta get off here also .. has been a very long day. Many thanks to all who are helping with these pigeons. If there is anything I can do from afar, just let me know.

Terry


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## zimmzimm3

Pigeon2luv, are you going to take legal actions. You should try and ketch these other birds and see what the bands say. They could be lost racers or other fancy birds that got loose from there owner.


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## philodice

I have extra cages, and a forever home lined up for one pigeon outside of my home, so I may be able to help.


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## Whitefeather

As it stands now, Kim, Philodice & I will be going to pick up some of the babies tomorrow (Sat). 

Cindy

Here are a couple pictures of a few of these adorable little ones.


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## Charis

This seems like a news story to me!


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## Lovebirds

Charis said:


> This seems like a news story to me!


I agree 100%..........someone should call the local TV stations and contact the papers..............make sure that people SEE first hand what happens when you POISON pigeons...........


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## pigeon2luv

*this pigeon was lucky was return to owner.*

house was treated last year..2007-

i do not recall the exact time of dead pigeons.

This pigeon was lucky it was in my yard. It went to the rightful owner.
the phone number is on the red leg band...
347-842-6278 and pigeon #7298-

good morning everyone, i hate to go to my side of my house, our houses are closed together. I heard cheeping this morning about 6am. logging off to check and will check back.


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## Charis

The owner of the house is in Oregon and lives about 50 miles east of Portland. I'm going to make attempt to track him down and have a conversation. My concern is that the house is in foreclosure and it is out of his control.


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## TheSnipes

Charis said:


> This seems like a news story to me!


AGREED! And what a pile of preciousness!

I agree too with MJ's earlier comment, about what the pest control people and the neighbors all need!!


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## TAWhatley

That's quite a flock of baby pigeons! I'm so glad they are getting the help they need! Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## Skyeking

That is whole load of cuteness. They are adorable, and thank you for being their parents.

I agree this should be advertised in newspapers, local news media and on billboards. Everyone needs to KNOW what is really going on here. Not only those cuties babies left behid, but the horrible death the parents endured.


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## pigeon2luv

*babies photo*

http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh161/pigeon2luv/babies/


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## Whitefeather

Many thanks for posting the link to these adorable baby pictures.  

Personally, I think this one should be considered for a 'Poster' picture on behalf of all these babies left without parents.

*What did those MEAN people do with out Moms & Dads? *


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## Whitefeather

I noticed in this picture the baby's leg looks to be sliding out from under him. Make sure the legs are under them, & they have something to grip onto, so they won't develop splayed legs.


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## pigeon2luv

*group babies photo*


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## Whitefeather

mr squeaks said:


> There is an AZ Pigeon Club. They may also have some suggestions to help you. I believe some may live in your area.
> *Gary Miller, President*
> Hm: 602-995-0721
> Cell: 602-339-6269
> 
> *Ed Zwar, Vice President*
> 623-388-4789
> 
> Please keep us updated.
> 
> Shi


I've been trying to locate some extra help for our rescuer & the abandoned babies. I hope I can do better than this.  

Gary's number has been busy for the past half hour. Will keep trying.

Ed Zwar's number is *NOT* in use.

Liberty Wildlife is *NOT* licensed to accept pigeons.

East Valley Wildlife's recording has a list of folks who take in birds & the type of birds they accept. Pigeons were *NOT* listed.
I have tried numerous numbers connected to EVW & there's either a recording that they are *NOT* taking birds or there's no answer.

Cindy


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## pigeon2luv

*the pigeons next door*


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## tipper

We can take 2 or 3 babies. Will have to find a way to get them. My driving has gotten flakier as I've gotten older so I try to avoid places like the Phoenix area.


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## xxmoxiexx

i saw a pic she has of the neighbors POINTING guns towards something, and it is the PIGEONS this rescuer said they are shooting at? WHAT else would they be shotting at sitting on their porch like that?
Anyways, from the pic, they just LOOK like total jerks! She cant even feed at night, the neighbors have NIGHT vision cameras ! Is that just TOTALLY insane, or what?
Those pics of dead pigeons are so sad, i am like bawling my eyes out right now, i am sick to my stomach. Those poor things! That PILE of dead pigeons, OMG! There is so MANY of them! I know this happens ALL the time, but here they clean them up, out of sight, out of mind or some ignorant cr*p like that!


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## pigeon2luv

*2 more babies found on ground behind 2 x 4 studs*


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## Lovebirds

Poor little guys. I'm SO glad you found them.


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## TAWhatley

Has anyone been able to get in touch with Dave Roth about this?

Cindy .. if Chuck might be heading my way anytime soon, I will take some of these babies
and/or adults .. just found out there are some adults too.

Terry


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## philodice

I wonder if any of the adults are in a 'taking care of baby' mood. Tempted to set up a nest and find out. I have heard stories.


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## Whitefeather

TAWhatley said:


> * *Has anyone been able to get in touch with Dave Roth about this?*
> 
> ** *Cindy .. if Chuck might be heading my way anytime soon*, I will take some of these babies
> and/or adults ..
> *** *just found out there are some adults too.*
> Terry


Hi Terry,
* I haven't.

** Right now Chuck's on the east coast.

*** From what I understand, there *are* several adults with various injuries. This is in addition to the abandoned baby situation. 

Cindy


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## TheSnipes

From the descriptions here it sounds like a serious case of people with no purpose to their lives and nothing better to do than launch a hate crusade. So disgusting, so sad, so common these days.


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## pigeon2luv

*Living near the park and the corner house*

 Our house sit near the park entrance which is the entrance to the walking path and jogging, dog walk.
I told the school kids not do throw their leftover lunch on my property.
I had notes in my yard """NO FOOD LITTERING"
Our corner house can be seen from the park and our mulberry tree branch are bare. 
That is why the pigeons were seen on our roof and on the ground.
We also have an injure duck that was shot with a spear dart and is now a pet. We have outdoor cats that do not brother the pigeons.
We had to take down all our bird feeders in the front yard and also the 3 bird bath and a large ground bath that the pigeons enjoys bathing in.

We keep and clean our property and the feeders,bird bath , 3 times a day.

RED FLAG WARNING, when neighbors and their kids start shooting at the pigeons with bb guns, started Sept. 2007 ..I should had known our nightmare was just started.

On my side of the house i stored my yard sale and it is the duck home there.

I noticed dead pigeons on my property and in my backyard and front yard and never cross my mind , they were poison by the winter bros pest control.
I found their web site after seeing the business pick up with the business logo on it.

The older babies that were abandon are now grown due to bb gun attack they are injured i need to find homes for them.

Last week the pest control came and went up on the roof and removed something and was gone. There had been no dead pigeons.


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## pigeon2luv

*injure duck now our pet duck.*









she eats worms, smelts.
she is not a farm duck.


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## pigeon2luv

*forgot to mention*

The pigeons fly in when it is daylight and leave a night.

Only pigeons on our property are the injured and the pigeons that came from across the street. 

The lady across the street next to the complaint neighbor had 50 pet pigeons and passed away .

The complaint neighbor had gave her a hard time. 

We got her pigeons due to leftover dry cat food on our front yard. 

So, that is how we got started with our pigeon problem.


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## pigeon2luv

*photo of our front yard*


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## pigeon2luv

*pigeons are eating something at entrance to park*


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## pigeon2luv

*return pigeons from park. is this normal looking like this*


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## Whitefeather

It definitely looks like they are eating something.

It's not normal for pigeons to be fluffed after eating, unless something is amiss. Although it's cloudy today, it's not *that* cold outside that they should be fluffed. 
Are there a lot of them that are fluffed? 

Cindy


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## pigeon2luv

*I am very upset today! Bawling and stress*

To watch all God creature suffer and hope that God will punish those that had been unkind to the wildlife. I can not bare to look at all God creatures and going in the house. But, will continue to observed their behaviors.
Thank you all that had read and help and i will be part of your life to foster young birds. 
This also upset my husband.
Mary and Don


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## pigeon2luv

*90% fluff*

0ver 100 and i am logging off to get stuff done this morning.


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## Charis

pigeon2luv said:


> To watch all God creature suffer and hope that God will punish those that had been unkind to the wildlife. I can not bare to look at all God creatures and going in the house. But, will continue to observed their behaviors.
> Thank you all that had read and help and i will be part of your life to foster young birds.
> This also upset my husband.
> Mary and Don


They don't look right to me either.
Remember Mary, these are pet pigeons that lost their care taker due to her death. You have been thrust into this situation because you and your husband are kind souls and now mean spirited, selfish people are punishing the pigeons and you for a situatuon that you had no control over.
[I've been kind with my comments toward your neighbors, especially the one that admits to buying poison on ebay and sits on his porch sporting a gun..big man!]


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## pigeon2luv

*I am back-dogs barking!!!!*

complaint neighbor talking to my neighbor north of me-
stirring up more problem.
i heard baby pigeon sound between my wooden fence and his block wall.
YES!!!! More babies. but, i will not post the graphic photo on the site of babies and parent.
I only found starving empty crop 6 babies. I just finish feeding them before i got on pigeon talk. 
here are photo of total of 8 babies, the 2 were from yesterday behind 2 x 4 studs.


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## pigeon2luv

*It was a big headache!!!*

moving all my yard and craft item. 
to get to the fence and take apart about 6 wooden fence to get to the babies. and using a broom to draw them to me.


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## pigeon2luv

*poor pigeon lady across the street*

I hope she knows we did our best to care for her birds. 
I see how she feels being driven crazy by her next door neighbor for 2 years til her death. She brought all here pigeons in her house and that is when her nightmare started. With the health dept.


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## TheSnipes

it mkes u contemplate putting some poison out for the neighbor


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## Feather

Pigeon2luv, 

You are one courageous lady. We know how demanding it is to keep multiple crops full. That is without worrying about a simi tamed flock being poisoned. As Terry said... David Roth would be a good one to call for help and publicity. He is an advocate against the damages of poison...and you are lucky to have him right there in Arizona.

I know our member Maggie (who has a soft spot for those wee ones) would be right there with you, but she is afraid to fly. But please know that we are all with you in spirit, and that some of our best members are right there in Arizona.

If you could call a news paper or someone that could play on the conscience of decent Arizonians to step forward, so that you and your husband are not facing this big battle alone. Get some media there so that they can take footage of what it is like after an animal is poisoned. Not to mention other protected birds and small mammels that may be eating the poison as well.

This is the worse situation that I have heard of since I have been on this forum. 

May God send his angels to help you.


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## pigeon2luv

*Heated Verbal Words From Vacant House Man*

 10:51AM
i HOPE There will be no problem when cindy,kim and ren gets here!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## philodice

He should be happy. After all, we are taking some of the birds away. And you have enough babies there to start a fine hobby loft of flying birds. Too bad I don't have a loft.

I'd be able to help a lot more if I had an outdoor aviary. I just need a little help to get it done.


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## Charis

Feather said:


> Pigeon2luv,
> 
> You are one courageous lady. We know how demanding it is to keep multiple crops full. That is without worrying about a simi tamed flock being poisoned. As Terry said... David Roth would be a good one to call for help and publicity. He is an advocate against the damages of poison...and you are lucky to have him right there in Arizona.
> 
> I know our member Maggie (who has a soft spot for those wee ones) would be right there with you, but she is afraid to fly. But please know that we are all with you in spirit, and that some of our best members are right there in Arizona.
> 
> If you could call a news paper or someone that could play on the conscience of decent Arizonians to step forward, so that you and your husband are not facing this big battle alone. Get some media there so that they can take footage of what it is like after an animal is poisoned. Not to mention other protected birds and small mammels that may be eating the poison as well.
> 
> This is the worse situation that I have heard of since I have been on this forum.
> 
> May God send his angels to help you.


Feather,
I have tried repeatedly to get a hold of Dave Roth and so has Cindy. The phone is always busy. If you have another way, please contact him for us.
Also, I have found a rehabber that is willing and able to take babies. The information has been forwarded to Mary to give to Cindy. The rehabber can also take injured/sick pigeons. If they are deemed unreleaseable though, they will be put down. None the less, she is a very valuable contact and I'm thankful to have found her. It has been a case of one contact may say no, but has give me someone else to try. So it goes...I'm still making phone calls on behalf of Mary and the pigeons. This is way more than our Arizona members can take on without help.


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## Charis

Just to add...there are many injured adults too.


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## pigeon2luv

*CLEANING up the evidence!!!!*

The owner of the treated house has someone cleaning and picking up all the dead birds.


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## Charis

pigeon2luv said:


> The owner of the treated house has someone cleaning and picking up all the dead birds.


Keep taking pictures.


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## Maggie-NC

I had not seen this thread until I was alerted to it by a member and it is sickening. I wish I was close enough to help.

Pigeons2Luv, I am so sorry you are experiencing this. We have rescued about that many at one time too and it isn't easy to raise them but it can be done. The difference is that we didn't have to experience any parents or babies being killed. The critter control person who gave all the babies and fledglings to us and another rehabber is one of the good guys and actually rescued all of them and brought them to us. Please try to enjoy the ones you are raising even with the horror going on around you because having that many at one time is also one of the greatest and most pleasurable experiences we've had since we started rescuing pigeons. 

God bless all our AZ members.


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## TheSnipes

Feather said:


> This is the worse situation that I have heard of since I have been on this forum.
> 
> May God send his angels to help you.


Amen to that. Does anyone know how to contact Dave Roth by email, or have a cell phone #, or a name/number of a mutual friend?

Charis, how about posting that list of news contacts I sent out yesterday, if you have it? I sent it from my work computer so I don't have it here or I would put it up so people could contact and ask for coverage of this story. It's so sickening.


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## Lovebirds

Is it ok to post about this to the group below? I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm a member of this group, sort of...........I get all their emails. The group is mostly made up of show pigeon folks, but I guess it can't hurt to pass this story on to them. Never know. Just might be someone in the area that can help out. I won't post until someone tells me it's ok. 


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ALLIOWAPIGEONS/


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## Maggie-NC

The pictures of the adult pigeons do not look good to me. I am hoping the seed they were eating was not poisoned. Would it be possible for you to rake and remove all the seed in that area.....just in case.


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## Charis

Lovebirds said:


> Is it ok to post about this to the group below? I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm a member of this group, sort of...........I get all their emails. The group is mostly made up of show pigeon folks, but I guess it can't hurt to pass this story on to them. Never know. Just might be someone in the area that can help out. I won't post until someone tells me it's ok.
> 
> 
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ALLIOWAPIGEONS/


Post it....


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## Feather

I am sorry Renee...by all means post the crises to anyone you know that may listen.


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## Lovebirds

It's done. Hopefully we'll get a response with some help. Am I correct in assuming that the main help needed right now is someone to take some of these babies and raise them?


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## Feather

Thanks Renee,

I would say that the babies are the most urgent. This is just all so terrible. Thank God for people such as Mary.


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## pigeon2luv

*Dead pigeons*









The clean the back and side yard of over 40 dead, decay pigeons by throwing it in my backyard with the dogs and in the duck area-side house. 
These were the one that the pest control company did not pick up.
Renee seen it and i took photo of it. sad.


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## Lovebirds

Lovebirds said:


> Is it ok to post about this to the group below? I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm a member of this group, sort of...........I get all their emails. The group is mostly made up of show pigeon folks, but I guess it can't hurt to pass this story on to them. Never know. Just might be someone in the area that can help out. I won't post until someone tells me it's ok.
> 
> 
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ALLIOWAPIGEONS/


Someone needs to keep an eye on the above link tomorrow. I'll be out most of the day, so the only way we would know if anyone responds is to read the messages. I won't be here to check my email.


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## Charis

Lovebirds said:


> Someone needs to keep an eye on the above link tomorrow. I'll be out most of the day, so the only way we would know if anyone responds is to read the messages. I won't be here to check my email.


And this site will be down tomorrow.


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## Lovebirds

Charis said:


> And this site will be down tomorrow.


Oh crap..........I forgot about that.............


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## Feather

Can we paste the link somewhere else on our computer? If so may I read the messages without joining?


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## Feather

pigeon2luv said:


> The clean the back and side yard of over 40 dead, decay pigeons by throwing it in my backyard with the dogs and in the duck area-side house.
> These were the one that the pest control company pest did not pick up.
> Renee seen it and i took photo of it. sad.


Pigeon2luv,

That has to be against the law to endanger your pets with possibly poisoned pigeons. 

My heart goes out to you, and I feel so helpless to aid in your plight. Please know that many of us are on pins and needles here, and that you are not going through this alone.


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## Maggie-NC

pigeon2luv said:


> The clean the back and side yard of over 40 dead, decay pigeons by throwing it in my backyard with the dogs and in the duck area-side house.
> These were the one that the pest control company did not pick up.
> Renee seen it and i took photo of it. sad.


Surely the law could do something about them throwing the pigeons in your yard. This is getting so ugly. I understand the site will be down from tomorrow morning until possibly Monday morning. Please know that you and your family and the pigeons will be in my prayers. Thank you so very much for all you are doing. You are a very brave person.


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## Lovebirds

Feather said:


> Can we paste the link somewhere else on our computer? If so may I read the messages without joining?


You can put it in you favorites. I believe you do have to join Yahoo and this group specifically to read the messages. You can join and read the messages without getting the actual emails coming in.


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## Charis

*Update*

I just heard from Cindy and all of the babies have been taken to the rehabber in Phoenix. She had volunteers ready when they arrived. Most babies have canker....what a surprise!
Cindy brought home 7-8 fancy adult pigeons that they were able to catch. I will let her fill you in on more of the details and her on site team. They are all my hero's and they've had one heck of a day.
I know many of you are heartbroken over this situation and Cindy wanted you to know that the babies are secure and doing well tonight.
This is an on-going situation so your continued prayers and support are appreciated and needed.


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## Feather

Renee, 

I joined the site...did not want to miss anyone willing to help. I will watch tomorrow for messages. 

Mary, 

May I have your email address incase anyone from this site can help you tomorrow.

Charis,

Thank you for the update and being such a strong link this side of the situation. 

A triple heartfelt thank you to the Arizona limb of this situation. All those little babies will be safe tonight thanks to you. God bless!

Just a suggestion but maybe we could all keep in touch tomorrow on the web-site that Renee provided for us. I don't think that they would mind if it was just for a day since Renee already posted the problem on that site.


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## KIPPY

I think only 4 or 5 of the babies actually have canker. Thank the Lord for the rehabber that took the little ones.

We have a red with a bad foot and a checker with a bad wing and others. They are secure at Cindys eating and drinking. We would like to take them all but it is just not possible.

Mary has a good size cage there so if she comes across more that are injured she can put them in the cage. Then we can go over and get those guys. Some we were not able to get to.

Considering the size of the flock, majority looked good.


----------



## Charis

TheSnipes said:


> Amen to that. Does anyone know how to contact Dave Roth by email, or have a cell phone #, or a name/number of a mutual friend?
> 
> Charis, how about posting that list of news contacts I sent out yesterday, if you have it? I sent it from my work computer so I don't have it here or I would put it up so people could contact and ask for coverage of this story. It's so sickening.


I do have it but let's hold off for now. Cindy has a copy too.


----------



## TAWhatley

*How About Using The Chat Room While We're Down ??*

http://gabbly.com/www.pigeons.biz/crisischat/

If we need to be in touch while Pigeon-Talk is down, we should be able to communicate through the Chat Room. We could also set up something with Yahoo Messenger or Windows Messenger if needed ?? Just a thought. 

I posted the link to the Crisis area since we're dealing with a crisis right now. If it's decided to use the Gabbly Chat for this, then please, members, don't be posting chit chat there .. only real emergencies.

Terry


----------



## Feather

That is a great idea Terry. I will only post if Renee has any people from the other site that may be interested in helping out.


----------



## Charis

Feather said:


> That is a great idea Terry. I will only post if Renee has any people from the other site that may be interested in helping out.


Thanks for checking the other site, Feather. Thank you for your kindness and concern too.


----------



## Whitefeather

Thank you for posting the update, Charis.  

This *has* been an exhausting day, to say the least. Mentally, as well as physically. However, being able to get *ALL* the babies & the six self feeding squeakers to the rehabber Charis found for us made it all worth while.  

While Shi & I were transporting the babies, Kim & Philodice stayed at the house & gathered as many fancy pigeons as they could. 

We came home with 7 fancy & one common who has a wing issue. 

As Shi & I were setting up individual cages and/or large carriers, Kim was checking each one for any signs of canker (they all passed the inspection with flying colors  ). 
Poor babies were so hungry. They ate like crazy. 
I just checked on them & they're all settled in. 

Pictures will be forthcoming.

Although there are many more issued that need to be addressed in this situation, I feel today's mission was a success.

Many thanks to Kim, Shi & Philodice.

Charis, I can't thank you enough for your non-stop effort & success in finding a rehabber that we were able to take the babies too.

A special prayer will be said tonight for those we had to leave behind. It truly breaks my heart. 

Cindy


----------



## TAWhatley

Very, very well done dear members! You are all pigeon angels! Should there be an emergency while the site is down, please see this thread and bookmark the sites: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=25818

Terry


----------



## maryjane

Thank you to everyone who has jumped in to help with this situation. Great job everyone. What a difference you're making to the pigeons left.


----------



## Lovebirds

Just so you know without having to check, the site I posted on suggested contacting the AZ pigeon club, which I believe someone has done already, or tried too. They suggested also that we contact 911 PA. LOL
I wrote them back and told them all that had been done already. I'm on my way out, so that's all I can do for now. I just read that the babies are being taken care of now. THAT IS GREAT NEWS!!!
Everyone have a good day.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Good morning everyone*

Cindy, Kim, Shi & Philodice. 
special thanks and the kindness and the time to help me.

I finally got a great night sleep after 2 weeks.

I call the Glendale Police and explain my situation of Poison Pigeons thrown over my yard and in the Duck area.

The told me it is against the law and to call them.

Last night when i look over the fence, their are still dead, decay pigeons. 
I am sure those are the one that will thrown over today.

The ones that were thrown over were from their other side of yard.

Today i am taking the advice of Cindy,Kim,Philodice and I had learn alot of pigeons and fancy pigeons. 

We have strict rules here in the City of Glendale. here is the site.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/codecompliance/

I am logging off for the rest of the day to do my Number 1 chores.

thank you all and god bless you, mary


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Update*

It was good that all babies were removed so i can clean that area out.

To have babies and mother would not be good.

My dogs are ok this morning. after they had 4 dead pigeons thrown in their backyard. 


I forgot to mention, last night the pigeons are leaving earlier.


----------



## pigeonmama

Mary,
You are the one deserving the blessing. All of those birds wouldn't have had a chance without your compassion, caring and love. Thanks you so much. You are a rare bird, one in a million,for sure. 
Daryl


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Junk, furnitures,woods,at the vacant house*

I notice that they were hauling away alot of junk,furnitures,woods from the vacant house.. I am sure they had pigeons were having babies on the other side of the house and facing my backyard. I also saw alot of bricks and cardboard boxes.


----------



## TheSnipes

pigeon2luv said:


> I call the Glendale Police and explain my situation of Poison Pigeons thrown over my yard and in the Duck area.
> 
> The told me it is against the law and to call them.


OK..it sounds like you did that (called them) so ... are they going to do anything? 

Mary you are a saint...bless you!!


----------



## Maggie-NC

Mary, Cindy, Shi, Kim, Philodice

You guys are the greatest!

Mary, is there any worry about your dogs eating the dead pigeons? If they were poisoned, I would watch your dogs carefully.


----------



## philodice

As always, the prettiest birds were the smartest ones and resisted capture. It took an hour or more to lure 7 fancies close enough to grab, including Big Red with the hurt leg. Given the situation we had to focus on getting the orphans, and picking up birds that were more likely to get good homes. IE pretty pigeons.
We educated the house owner on how to diminish the pigeon presence around her home. Sure she took away the food, but she also needed to take away the water and the five-star pigeon hotel she had in her yard. Nesting places EVERYWHERE. The birds do have a source of clean water nearby, as well as a source of food. I saw them grazing on paloverde and acacia seeds in the park, as if they learned that from the wild doves. The main reason they stayed so long in an area where some of them were getting very ill and thin was all the nesting spots, IMO.
I grabbed and felt enough of them to know that these birds are not getting enough to eat. Like the Trafalgar square pigeons that have started to disperse and decrease in numbers, her efforts are starting to have effect. It is harsh but it needs to happen. Pigeons haven't been able to gather in large numbers unmolested in this country for at least 100 years. (Passenger pigeons, for example.) Better they have mother nature control the population that Mr. Meany. Most of the birds clearly have show pigeon ancestors. There was one with a crest and feathered feet that I didn't grab...too fast!

There was a daddy sitting on a baby with one egg pipping. I actually took the egg and inspected it, then put it back under dad and he didn't react. These birds are very tame. Even my dove bit me when I pulled that.


----------



## Charis

Cindy..Kim..Shi..Philodice...I can't thank you enough for all you did yesterday and ther just aren't enough words anyway!


----------



## Skyeking

Charis said:


> Cindy..Kim..Shi..Philodice...I can't thank you enough for all you did yesterday and ther just aren't enough words anyway!


Completely agree! Thank you all so much for all your hard work and efforts to help with this situation. Bless you all!


----------



## Maggie-NC

Charis, you deserve a great big hug for all the behind the scenes work you did yesterday. So, consider it done!


----------



## Charis

Lady Tarheel said:


> Charis, you deserve a great big hug for all the behind the scenes work you did yesterday. So, consider it done!


Thank you, Maggie. My contribution feels like so little compared to the other team members. I wish I could have been there to help them.


----------



## KIPPY

*



Charis, you deserve a great big hug for all the behind the scenes work you did yesterday.

Click to expand...

*I agree! Your awesome Charis and we couldn't thank you enough.



> I finally got a great night sleep after 2 weeks.


Understandable, you have alot of stress going on between the birds and your neighbors. It's going to take awhile for those pijes to move on. Once you get everything cleared you should start seeing progress. Good luck to you! You have a alot of work ahead and at least you have some vacation time to do it.


----------



## Whitefeather

Lady Tarheel said:


> *Charis, you deserve a great big hug for all the behind the scenes work you did yesterday.*
> So, consider it done!


AMEN to that!!  

Cindy


----------



## Whitefeather

Charis said:


> Thank you, Maggie.
> *My contribution feels like so little compared to the other team members.*
> I wish I could have been there to help them.


Not in Kim's & my eyes.  

We would have taken as many babies as possible, but knowing they were going to be able to be placed with a rehabber certainly lowered our stress level.  

Cindy


----------



## Snowbird Sue

I must second that. I just can't figure out, what is wrong with people doing such awful things! There sure are LOTS of weird people out there!  I hope the babies make it OK. Prayers, Prayers, and more Prayers!


----------



## Charis

AZWhitefeather said:


> Not in Kim's & my eyes.
> 
> We would have taken as many babies as possible, but knowing they were going to be able to be placed with a rehabber certainly lowered our stress level.
> 
> Cindy


I will say this...I was as exhausted as the rest of you. I had a hard time waking up this morning and still feel kind of foggy. Yesterday was very emotional.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Philodice*

Philodice- i caught the smart white bird you wanted. bye. mary 

with seeds on my hand and it came up to my hand and my other hand cover her.


----------



## Feather

It appears as though the Angels were sent to help. Our very own Arizona Angels. 

Charis don't hide your wings we all know that you were the pillar here on this site.

Mary, You are quite a lady. We need more people like you in this world.


----------



## little bird

I do hope the members are remembering that little REPUTATION scales of justice in the upper right hand corner when thanking the Arizona Angels .......everybody likes a pat on the back for a job well done. Let's see some double green spots on these gals posts.


----------



## Maggie-NC

Well, dadgumit, I did three and then was "told" I had to wait 24 hours to do the others.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*caught total of 3*


----------



## Charis

Great Job, Mary!

Beautiful Pigeons.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Fallen Feathers -met Jody*

Bless her heart, I didn't realized she has done this for 10 years, rescue,rehab and education. I mention as soon as i take care of my situation, I will volunteer my time to help her.
I mention to her i do graphic , web pages and animation. 
i will think of an animation for fallen feathers. 
I brought over 5 more babies and pass with flying colors -no cankers.
1 baby just hatch and the other 2 babies about 2 - 3 days old, the other 2 were older.

thank you all.


----------



## TAWhatley

You are a terrific pigeon catcher, Pigeon2luv! All of us are so appreciative of your devotion to helping these birds. You and the other Arizona Angels are to be commended!

Terry


----------



## KIPPY

*



caught total of 3

Click to expand...

*Yeah!!!


Mary,
Don't forget the injured ones. I'm pretty sure there is another one on the side of your house who can't fly. I wasn't able to get to him with all the stuff and he was pretty sly.


----------



## philodice

The bottom one is the smartest one!
I have decided she is not white, or red. She is a peach-pied, maybe an orange pied. And mine is a red-pied with grey tail feathers.


----------



## nikku-chan

You guys are amazing...I wish i could help too!

Forgive my ignorance,

But why do the adult pigeons have to go to people's homes to live?

Obviously the area they're living in is dangerous..so they need to be removed. But i wonder what would happen if they were kept for a short time to prevent them from returning "home", and then released to a feral flock?

Even better, if they were kept for a short time together, in a safer location, and then released as the flock that they once were?

It probably isn't possible, as i don't know as much as you guys...
But I'm just curious


----------



## Charis

nikku-chan said:


> You guys are amazing...I wish i could help too!
> 
> Forgive my ignorance,
> 
> But why do the adult pigeons have to go to people's homes to live?
> 
> Obviously the area they're living in is dangerous..so they need to be removed. But i wonder what would happen if they were kept for a short time to prevent them from returning "home", and then released to a feral flock?
> 
> Even better, if they were kept for a short time together, in a safer location, and then released as the flock that they once were?
> 
> It probably isn't possible, as i don't know as much as you guys...
> But I'm just curious


From my experience working with feral pigeons, they do return to their home area.


----------



## Whitefeather

Great work on catching three more, Mary  
I will be in touch with you to make arrangements on picking them up.

As Kim mentioned, Don't forget the injured ones.

Cindy



nikku-chan said:


> You guys are amazing...I wish i could help too!
> 
> Forgive my ignorance,
> But why do the adult pigeons have to go to people's homes to live?
> 
> Obviously the area they're living in is dangerous..so they need to be removed. But i wonder what would happen if they were kept for a short time to prevent them from returning "home", and then released to a feral flock?
> 
> Even better, if they were kept for a short time together, in a safer location, and then released as the flock that they once were?
> 
> It probably isn't possible, as i don't know as much as you guys...
> But I'm just curious


Your questions are quite valid.  
The main problem we're having is this flock is *massive*.

Right now we're trying to collect the ones that have a good chance of being adopted *&* the injured ones. 

Cindy


----------



## philodice

The non flying ones absolutely NEED to get out of there. This is the next priority. They can't get food where they are if they can't fly, and could be starving already. Also the continued presence of injured birds keeps the flock coming back, where they can be poisoned by that meanie. So it went: orphans, fancies, and now unreleasables. More are getting picked up this weekend. We just didn't have enough carriers or car room to do fancies and injuries at the same time.


----------



## maryjane

Awesome job everyone!!! You really are all angels.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Update*

















I took 3 new babies-about 1-3 days old and 2 older feather babies.
Jody check and none had Canker.
I am very exhausted after doing emergency child care and then home to gather the rest of pigeons. 
I have a doctor appointment tomorrow and will finish cleaning the side of the yard. 
Decided to bring these pigeons in the house. 
I had them outdoor confine and it didn't work, all the pigeons gather around the cages. 
By bringing these pigeons in the house ,hopefully tomorrow there will be less.
The injured sure are quick on their legs. my goodness.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Just to add...there are many injured adults too.*

 yes, yes, i didn't forget them, i need to buy a net at the pet store..tooo fast.


----------



## Charis

How many injured pigeons are remaining?


----------



## pigeon2luv

*The vacant house is no longer vacant!!*

 good morning everyone, Last night, i seen childrens and adults. omg, and still dead pigeons not pick up on the west (north) side. 
I will take care of the injured and will let you know how many we have by the end of the day.


----------



## TheSnipes

Those birds are gorgeous. You really are a hero


----------



## Margarret

Pigeon 2 Luv,

I finally have had time to read some posts.I did not know till now the horror that you have all been going through in Ariz. Now I have the full story. I can't tell you thank you enough for rescuing all those babies. I wish I were close enough to help. For everyone involved in this tragedy a great hug and prayers sent for all those babies, parents and injured and dead that you have cared and are caring for.

Margaret


----------



## little bird

Here's hoping the new tenants will not be so barbaric. Please do approach them if possible and warn them of the poison......Heaven forbid one of the children will be poisoned. The new tenants may not know what the landlord has done.....they might even be simpathetic to the pigeons and allow you to enter the property and save what you can. Warning them for the sake of THEIR children should break the ice. Fingers crossed !!!


----------



## Maggie-NC

Mary, you just continue to be so good and kind. Those last pictures show some very beautiful pigeons. Thank you so very much for all you are doing.

Nona, that was a good point about the children getting into the poison. People who put this out forget there are other beings out there besides pigeons. BTW, I finished my "rep" posting.


----------



## philodice

I'm still searching for help building my flight for Bear. He's so shy. If I get that flight built I can foster some birds.


----------



## mr squeaks

An update...haven't been on for awhile...

MANY THANKS FOR THE KUDOS...I couldn't figure out why I had TWO green boxes until I checked my User CP! Actually, Mary, Cindy, KIPPY and Philodice are the REAL heroines. At this point, I'm doing my best to help. Because of my apartment situation, I can't take any "flying" rescues.

Also, another REAL HEROINE was CHARIS! Her Fallen Feathers rehab information was a GODSEND! Jody and her helpers were TREMENDOUS!! Without Charis, I would never have known about Fallen Feathers!

HOPEFULLY, those pijies who may have to join a feral flock on this side of town, will do so after acclimating for a few weeks. Why they would fly back to a bad situation when they have food "here" is one for the birds - er - pijies. Only time will tell.

Hopefully, this situation will have an acceptable ending! I know we will do all that we can!

THANKS TO MARY, for securing more of the pijies!!

Shi


----------



## Whitefeather

mr squeaks said:


> AND, some good news, hopefully! I've been in contact with Brandee of AZ Pigeon Club.
> * *She said some pijies could be shipped to her*.
> She lives out of the Phoenix area, but every bit helps!!
> 
> ** *Because of my apartment situation, I can't take any "flying" rescues.*
> 
> Shi


* When Brandee mentioned shipping some birds, I didn't realize she was talking about shipping them to her. If that's the case, they could be transported by vehicle. She just lives a little south of Prescott Valley. 
If an AZPC member is planning on going up her way, they are more than welcome to take the three that I have.

I spoke with Mary last evening & she had *18* more birds, fancy ferals & injured combined. I have no idea if she caught any more today. Once Kim & I take in those birds, we will out of cages & carriers. Not to mention room.  

** Although the pigeons we are taking are flyers, we aren't letting them out of the cages, at this point, so that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you could house one in that large cage on your patio.

I'm going to make a couple calls tomorrow & hopefully we will have a place to take some of them.

Cindy


----------



## Charis

Cindy,
I have some more numbers I can call tomorrow.


----------



## dove-cote

Charis ,Cindy ,Shi ,and others in the Glendale Pigeon Rescue, 

Hi this is Brandee from the AZ Pigeon Club .I emailed with Shi & explained how I can personally help . As for Ed Zwar you have an outdated number for him , here's a current one (602)321-1828 . Ed says give him a call & he'll see what he can do . You all are doing a great job !!!


----------



## Whitefeather

dove-cote said:


> Charis ,Cindy ,Shi ,and others in the Glendale Pigeon Rescue,
> 
> Hi this is Brandee from the AZ Pigeon Club .I emailed with Shi & explained how I can personally help . As for Ed Zwar you have an outdated number for him , here's a current one (602)321-1828 . Ed says give him a call & he'll see what he can do . You all are doing a great job !!!


Hi Brandee,
Many thanks for updating us with Ed's phone number.
Thanks to both of you for offering to help in this most unfortunate situation. 

All the pigeons, that are now confined, will be checked for illnesses & injuries this weekend. Once we have them separated from the healthy ones, we will have a better idea of where we stand.

Thanks again.

Cindy


----------



## pigeon2luv

*more comments*

 go to this site and post your comment. 
cindy is trying to get them to go out on saturday and confront the neighbor.



http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Contact_Us&p=pubcom

found in dog water dish


----------



## pigeon2luv

*came from neighbor across the street (complaint)*

and flew to my driveway and found it half stiff and eyes closed and the other half of the body ok. took to jody at fallen feathers with babies. 


cindy call her when you are free to find out the results.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*Pigeons still eating near his house???*


----------



## pigeon2luv

*taken this am*


----------



## pigeon2luv

*20 fancy dead and 10 regular rock dove*

sorry no photos, too emotional right now.  


logging off to capture more injured pigeons.


----------



## Maggie-NC

This is truly heart-wrenching. That poor little pigeon in your first photo who meant no one harm, killed because of mean people. The corn he is feeding them, besides being laced with poison, looks bad anyhow. Your neighbor must really be on a rampage if you've found 30 more dead. If the sheriff ever does show up be sure to stress to them that protected species such as doves and crows eat corn like this, not to mention dogs or children may even try it.


----------



## Charis

pigeon2luv said:


> sorry no photos, too emotional right now.
> 
> 
> logging off to capture more injured pigeons.


I'm glad you took that pigeon to Jody. What ideas did she have?


----------



## pigeon2luv

*thank goodness for garbage pick up today*


----------



## philodice

No no no no no!
Oh my God No!
I'm getting that new big cage Sunday to take some of them away, this madman must be stopped.


----------



## Lovebirds

pigeon2luv said:


> go to this site and post your comment.
> cindy is trying to get them to go out on saturday and confront the neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Contact_Us&p=pubcom



This just makes me sick.............what sort of comment should we post and does it matter that we don't live in Glendale, much less Arizona? Does this towns sheriff already know anything about what's going on? I've heard of this Sheriff Joe. Something has got to be done to stop this man.......is it just one person or is there a group of people? I'll be glad to send MR. JOE a comment, but I think we need to sound like we at least know what we're talking about and not go off half cocked.


----------



## philodice

On the bright side, Mary, the bird I took is just happy. She got a bath today.









We have made a real difference already in the lives of these birds. Just focus on that. Whatever else happens, remember the good we have done so far and keep a positive attitude. Don't let this creep get us down!
Because of your hard work, there are fewer birds around the house to eat the poison and some very happy pigeons.
Please move your dog's water and food bowl, and make sure to move the dogs into a different part of the yard if you can to keep them from getting poisoned too.

PS I'm looking forward to evacuating more birds. I hope to be ready with that aviary.


----------



## pigeon2luv

*have access to park thru backyard*


----------



## philodice

I know you told me your brother took a lot of birds. Make sure he reads up on how to house, feed and keep them. Some of the birds in your flock are very sick and may need medicine. Have him join up the forum and start reading, if possible. How many fancy birds did you have left for pick up this weekend? I won't be coming out but I will be able to foster birds that are picked up. Violet, the one I have, is very healthy. She is rapidly putting on weight. She might even get a few grams of fat.  She thinks I am fattening her up for the frying pan!


----------



## TheSnipes

What does the public comment do? Does the comment get posted somewhere for the world to see? If so, I don't think I am willing to say what I really think because you are required to enter your name and email address. I don't want to encourage crazies to harass me.

On second thought I used my initials only and sent it. 

I see that website has a link to "report a crime" and maybe that would be a good route?


----------



## Whitefeather

Folks,
I've been out all day & just now getting on the site.

This is a very frustrating situation & Mary is facing the brunt of it which only adds insult to injury. However . . .

I would like to request that no more comments be sent as everything is speculation at this point. 

Evidence is being gathered & until tests have been performed & a confirmed diagnosis of what is happening to these birds has been made we shouldn't be sending letters to anyone.

I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.

Cindy


----------



## Lovebirds

AZWhitefeather said:


> Folks,
> I've been out all day & just now getting on the site.
> 
> This is a very frustrating situation & Mary is facing the brunt of it which only adds insult to injury. However . . .
> 
> I would like to request that no more comments be sent as everything is speculation at this point.
> 
> Evidence is being gathered & until tests have been performed & a confirmed diagnosis of what is happening to these birds has been made we shouldn't be sending letters to anyone.
> 
> I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.
> 
> Cindy



I understand and agree completely.


----------



## little bird

*comments*

Perhaps we should tone down our comments but I would hate for anybody in Glendale, AZ to think Mary stands alone!!! The squeeky wheel gets the grease and this situation calls for hundreds of voices demanding an investigation that won't be swept under the rug because they are ONLY PIGEONS.


----------



## Charis

little bird said:


> Perhaps we should tone down our comments but I would hate for anybody in Glendale, AZ to think Mary stands alone!!! The squeeky wheel gets the grease and this situation calls for hundreds of voices demanding an investigation that won't be swept under the rug because they are ONLY PIGEONS.


Truely, Mary is not alone.
While it may appear that nothing is being done...the wheels are moving.


----------



## philodice

Yes, we might want to reserve some of our comments for Sunday or Monday.


----------



## KIPPY

I'm really curious as too, how many (approx) injured you have Mary that are going to be picked up tomorrow? 
I may need to move some of my birds around and we only have so many carriers. Just trying to get a heads up so I can get organized.


----------



## TAWhatley

Well, there seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes with this situation. I think all of us that are not directly involved would be well advised to wait for SPECIFIC information/instructions from our members who are there and dealing with it as to how to help and not hinder this situation by taking action on our own.

I know we all want to help, but sometimes tis better to just let the ones on the scene come up with the game plan and then let us know.

Personally, I really don't know all the details of this, so please don't ask me. Let's wait for our Arizona members and other members who are seriously into this to bring us up to date and let us know what needs to be done next.

Terry


----------



## xxmoxiexx

WOW! Have i SURE missed a lot of action! Been away from this thread for a bit, and WOW! YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME! I have been so busy woth mid-terms and such, havent seen this, and i am amazed at what a GREAT job everyone is doing! I am GLOWING with pride at how great our members are here! I wish i was closer and able to help somehow, but you guys are doing such a great job, and when there are people helping, it's IMPOSSIBLE to give up! When you are doing it totally alone, it seems hopeless. I learned that when Solly and Charis needed help with that petition Hannah started, as soon as people saw them working at it, it made others want to help and look what we accomplished! I am soooo happy to know this operation is heading in the same direction, already is a huge success!
My heart does and is breaking for the birds still there. I really wish things like this didnt happen, it just makes me so sad, and i hate being sad! I'm glad to know the caught pigeons are doing well. I am sending thoughts of healthy happy pigeons for the caught AND still wild pijjies! I hate poison! And hate people that use it too!
Mary, thank you for trying so hard and continuing to help, and you didnt even KNOW about this website yet! That shows determination! I know i found this website with ONE sick pigeon on my hand, i dont know if i could of done what you are doing before i even KNEW about this site! It would of seemed hopeless right from the START! People like you and all you Arizona Angels never give up, and it is such an inspiration to me right now, and obviously to everyone else here too! Keep up the good fight everyone!


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## TheSnipes

AZWhitefeather said:


> Folks,
> I've been out all day & just now getting on the site.
> 
> This is a very frustrating situation & Mary is facing the brunt of it which only adds insult to injury. However . . .
> 
> I would like to request that no more comments be sent as everything is speculation at this point.
> 
> Evidence is being gathered & until tests have been performed & a confirmed diagnosis of what is happening to these birds has been made we shouldn't be sending letters to anyone.
> 
> I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.
> 
> Cindy


Well at the risk of going against the crowd, and I sure don't want to sound like a naysayer and *I applaud everyone's efforts* - obviously - but gathering evidence, performing tests and diagnosing what is happening - isn't that be the responsibility of law enforcement? I can't tell from your post who's doing what of course, but I hope the proper authorities are involved. That is largely because it's only their evidence that counts (legally speaking) and I am hoping that there is some legal measure that can be invoked to stop the indiscriminate killing of these birds. I know that a small group of people, no matter how dedicated, can not remove them all to safety fast enough. I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to say.


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## pigeon2luv

*My favorite photo*












Today will be a happy day for me, knowing more injured,sick pigeons will be leaving here.


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## Dezirrae

OMG... this is such a horrible situation and I certainly APPLAUDE ALL the AZ Angels for their efforts to rectify. Thank you also Charis for bringing this thread to my attention - I had read the beginnings in early March but had lost touch with it. My heart just goes out to all of you gathering the flock and helping them get to safety and to Mary for having to see and gather all the deceased  

When it's the proper time to take action (from a distance) please remember to let me know -- and of course, if there is anything I can do in meantime please give a holler.

In the meantime, I will have all of you and the birds in my prayers. May God bless you and give you the extra strength for the challenges that lay ahead.


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## Whitefeather

TheSnipes said:


> * Well at the risk of going against the crowd, and I sure don't want to sound like a naysayer and *I applaud everyone's efforts* - obviously -* but gathering evidence, performing tests and diagnosing what is happening - isn't that be the responsibility of law enforcement? *
> 
> ** *I can't tell from your post who's doing what of course,* but I hope the proper authorities are involved. That is largely because it's only their evidence that counts (legally speaking) and I am hoping that there is some legal measure that can be invoked to stop the indiscriminate killing of these birds. I know that a small group of people, no matter how dedicated, can not remove them all to safety fast enough. I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to say.


All I'm going to say is we are doing our best to help Mary get this situation *under control*. 

** At this point, this is who's doing what:
Mary is gathering as many pigeons as she has room for.
This morning Kim, myself & Shi will be returning to the house. 
Kim & I will check EACH pigeon, that Mary has confined. 
They will be separated by illness, injury & healthy. And then we'll get them the hell out of there. 

Will post an update when we have a better idea of what we are dealing with in regard to the confined pigeons.

Cindy


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## philodice

I know we can't save them all, the only reason we are moving some of them is so that if the injured and colorful (unique) individuals of the flock are removed it will encourage the rest of the flock to stop coming around. With No food, no water, and no place to hide at Mary's house, and with their friends being "bird napped", the plan is to make the flock decide to go elsewhere. And it is working! Mary said fewer birds are hanging out at her place, and the number gets smaller every day. We are making progress here, taking the flock out of danger. Only 30 died yesterday, not 200 like the first time that poison got spread.

And I'm stuck at work.


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## Feefo

You are all doing a phenomenal job there. Last year we UK members had to relocate only 30 pigeons that were going to be culled and that took an incredible amount of time and organisation. I was proud of what we had achieved, but I am humbled now.

My heart aches for all the precious pigeons that were killed by those who were either too cruel or too stupid to consider humane alternatives.

Cynthia


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## sabina

OMG!!! I haven't been on the forum in awhile and of course have missed A LOT!!! This situation is unbelievable, and it goes without saying what an incredible job the AZ members, Charis, Mary et al have been doing. I have so much respect and admiration for all of you helping here!!!

I'm a little confused though as to the actual situation. So someone had 50 pet pigeons, that person passed away, the pigeons were released there? And that house was vacant until now? And a neighbor has been poisoning those pigeons? How many pigeons have been rescued? How many were poisoned? 

Sorry if I'm a little slow in picking things up here  The numbers seem awfully high, and I'm having trouble grasping what the whole situation is...

Sabina


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## Feefo

> I'm a little confused though as to the actual situation. So someone had 50 pet pigeons, that person passed away, the pigeons were released there? And that house was vacant until now? And a neighbor has been poisoning those pigeons? How many pigeons have been rescued? How many were poisoned?
> 
> Sorry if I'm a little slow in picking things up here The numbers seem awfully high, and I'm having trouble grasping what the whole situation is...
> 
> Sabina


Actually I am the same state of confusion....

Cynthia


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## Charis

Truely, I agree with you all that this is confusing and tragic situation.
Cindy, Kippy and Shi are on site now.


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## maryjane

I posted a reply here last night but apparently it hasn't shown up?  Just was saying that you are all doing such a great job and thank you so much for going to all the trouble, time, and effort to do this heart-breaking work. A mixed blessing in that it is so hard to do, but at least you are able to save so many.


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## philodice

In summary:
A little old lady across the street owned a home and a loft and collected fancy pigeons. 50-100 of them. Mary enjoyed feeding the feral birds around her house for years, and had bird feeders in her yard and in the park. Lady dies, son lets out her flock and tries to sell the house but can't. Too many pigeons on the roof. Son spreads poison both physically and spiritually.
ALL the show birds DIE, but some have bred and have descendants in the area.
Death toll: 200-300. Flock size: Still considerable. Jerk gets ENTIRE neighborhood to complain to the city about the pigeons, Mary is served with a notices that ALL must go within 2 weeks. She knows this is impossible and comes to us for help.

We go check it out. Birds EVERYWHERE. She has boxes, crates, planters, benches, cat beds, and piles of wood full of nesting birds. Birds with eggs. Birds with babies. Birds under bushes, birds on the roof. Some that can't fly, some that are fat, some young, some fancy. Most just plain old starving blue and red bars looking for a free meal.

We lay a plan of action. (As described previously.) We educate Mary on how to discourage the flock from remaining in her yard. We begin trapping the fancy birds and they orphaned young. The reason behind all this is that perhaps without the fancy birds, young, and injured, the flock will begin to disperse.

The result so far: Fewer birds in the flock. Less time spent at Mary's house, more time spent out of danger. 8 birds relocated with Pigeon talk members, 30 birds relocated in an aviary in another town with Mary's brother. 30 squeakers relocated to a rehab facility, for raising and soft release later, one mildly poisoned adult placed for treatment at same facility.

Jerk spreads more poison. More deaths result, this time 30. (Yay, progress)
Pigeon talk members go out again, this time with more carriers, to pick up more fancy birds and some non-flyers.
This brings us up to date so far.


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## TAWhatley

Ok, dear members. We have too many people trying to update and keep this thread current. While I very much appreciate all the efforts made by our Arizona members to help with this situation, I am going to close this thread, and I want only Cindy (AZWhitefeather) to post any updates here. Cindy will be able to do that because she is a moderator. This is nothing against Kippy, Mr. Squeaks, Philodice or anyone else who has been helping .. it's simply because things are getting too confused, misinformation is running rampant, and there are apparently still a significant number of birds that need help. Please try to understand and please cooperate with this request. When Cindy is able to post an update, I am sure she will.

Terry


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## Whitefeather

Today's update

We came home with 19 pigeons.
2 extremely ill
5 ill appearing
2 confirmed canker cases
Kim will treat these birds.

1 Red with injured wing
1 checker who has no use of his right leg (appears to be an old injury that healed terribly).
Shi is going to hold these two until Kim or I can find room for them.

8 that appear healthy.
I will house these. 
Philodice, if you are able to take them & place them in your new aviary, that would be great. If not, I'll acclimate them & release them to my backyard flock. 

Mary transported a large number of pigeons (I'm guessing at least 90-100) to another location & released them. She told Kim, Shi & I she has known of this area.
She said the pigeons joined right in eating with the established flock already there. 
Mary also said that a fellow is willing to take a fair number of pigeons (about 50, if I'm not mistaken) & house them in a 50 ft aviary he has. This is supposed to take place tomorrow.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather

I received the following email from Mary this morning & wanted to pass it along to the group.

* "LESS pigeons about 30 on roof" .*

I would like to thank *EVERYONE*, within AZ, & beyond, who was part of the Glendale Pigeon Rescue Mission. 

Updates will be posted as I receive them.

Cindy


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