# ash red barless



## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

how would you make it?
i want that on a dragoon. getting a black hen and a red check cock, will they throw me one or would i have to cross the son back to the mom?


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

I would think to bred true barless, both the cock and the hen would have to be carrying the barless gene.....

Gordon


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

im not trying to get a blue barless ...more like a lavender


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

Black (spread blue) combined with ash red will give you spread ash or what some call ash red barless(not true barless). I do not know the percentages though. Also depending on the spread gene you may have some bleed through of the red bars. I have a few that have very faint red bars. The lavender expression varies a lot and you will probably need more modifiers to obtain it.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You would need to be have barred birds not check to achieve a barless phenotype using ash red and spread. Also you would want smoky in the mix to fade out the pattern and dom opal would not go a stray either but this would change the base colour.

Don't use a check, Pair your black to an ash red bar, if you get bars from them it means the black carries or is bar, Only keep barred babies that are spread. If you get no bars put the ash red spread babies to the ash red bar parent to lock in the bar gene. Once you are only dealing with bar thats all you will produce and you can go ahead and try select for the exact phenotype you want.

As above, the only way to get a true red barless is to have both parents carrying the barless gene. And Creek is correct that the bars will leak through on most birds if not all even with smoky in the mix.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

http://www.whiteracers.20m.com/photo3.html

It would be a lot faster to start with barless and then breed what you want.
Dave


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Crazy Pete said:


> http://www.whiteracers.20m.com/photo3.html
> 
> It would be a lot faster to start with barless and then breed what you want.
> Dave


Not neccesarily, To get back to dragoon type from a racer could take a few crosses ( 5 or more ) and then to get them to breed true to type would take years of selection, If Ash red, Spread, Bar and Smoky are already in the breed it would not take long to get a barless or close expression making crosses of those and once you have the colour atleast it would be to type.

If wanting a true barless expression then you are bang on Dave, It would be faster to make the cross and work back to what you want but it sounds like this poster just wants a close to barless expression which I have achieved in 2 years using, smoky, ash red, bar and spread.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

thanks ...ill try to see if i can breed out bar ....


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Oops I didn't catch the part about the Dragoon just the racer. sorry
Dave


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> You would need to be have barred birds not check to achieve a barless phenotype using ash red and spread. Also you would want smoky in the mix to fade out the pattern and dom opal would not go a stray either but this would change the base colour.
> 
> Don't use a check, Pair your black to an ash red bar, if you get bars from them it means the black carries or is bar, Only keep barred babies that are spread. If you get no bars put the ash red spread babies to the ash red bar parent to lock in the bar gene. Once you are only dealing with bar thats all you will produce and you can go ahead and try select for the exact phenotype you want.
> 
> As above, the only way to get a true red barless is to have both parents carrying the barless gene. And Creek is correct that the bars will leak through on most birds if not all even with smoky in the mix.


what if all i have to work with is a check cock?


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

Crazy Pete thanks for the post of the web page earlier on this page, i had to look.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

blongboy said:


> what if all i have to work with is a check cock?


Then you would hope the bird carries bar aswell as the black. A lot of what ifs.... It could be done with check but would be harder again, I mean, it really depends how perfect a barless expression you want.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Then you would hope the bird carries bar aswell as the black. A lot of what ifs.... It could be done with check but would be harder again, I mean, it really depends how perfect a barless expression you want.


wont know till i beed them ...ill try to keep ya posted when i get this rolling


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