# I know this seems awkward but...Please help me I'm desperate!



## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

I got home from visiting my friend Lana. Her new pigeon Waffles is doing great, she is now 3 weeks old and has dark blue eyes and white feathers. She chrips a lot too. But now I have 1 problem, 2of Lana's pgieons have laid eggs. And one of out of the 2 isn't doing so well. She stands up every now and then, Lana gave me one of her eggs. I was hoping this would help the mother since this is her first time. But right now I'm nervous. I checked the egg before I left Lana's house. There is an embryo in it and it's heart is beating I've even picked out a name, Rudy. I am keeping it warm with a heating pad. 

But please help me!!! I'm so nervous about Rudy's survival help! I don't want to lose Rudy. It's too late for me to take Rudy back to Lana's so for the next 3 weeks I'm stuck with this egg and then on the plus side I'm going to Las Vegas next weekend. My Dad is going to look at a house upthere that he will be renting for 6 months. Help me please!!!

I'm so desperate to insure that this Pigeon embryo which I have named Rudy, hatches.

Please reply to this thread.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Has anyone read this yet?!

Please help me!!!


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

im very sorry i dont know how to help sept to tell you to just keep it warm and safe. i just wanted to send my best wishes


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

BirdDogg10 said:


> I got home from visiting my friend Lana. Her new pigeon Waffles is doing great, she is now 3 weeks old and has dark blue eyes and white feathers. She chrips a lot too. But now I have 1 problem, 2of Lana's pgieons have laid eggs. And one of out of the 2 isn't doing so well. She stands up every now and then, Lana gave me one of her eggs. I was hoping this would help the mother since this is her first time. But right now I'm nervous. I checked the egg before I left Lana's house. There is an embryo in it and it's heart is beating I've even picked out a name, Rudy. I am keeping it warm with a heating pad.
> 
> .


Hi BirdDogg, 

I think we are all reluctant to help you given the fact that you NEVER listen to our advice or concerns. Most of us have advised you not to take a pigeon before it was ready or any OTHER bird or eggs that you weren't capable or ready to handle. We've given you the benefit of the doubt now for *months* and you have yet to prove that you are truly sincere and wanting the best for any bird. How much longer do you think we are going to sit back and tolerate this?

By the way, NO domestic pigeons have dark blue eyes, either adults or youngsters....well, not the ones at Lana's house anyway. I can only recall one rare breed of domestic pigeon with blue eyes but I'm sure this isn't what you've been observing at Lana's.

BirdDogg, there comes a time at which point either you are going to have to give or we will. How much patience and acceptance do you expect us to have, how many months have to pass before we throw in the towel trying to advise you? Have you heard of the little boy that cried wolf? Well, it's similar to your situation and it's unfortunate but this is what I think we are *all* feeling at this time. We are frustrated, fed up from banging our heads on the wall with your lack of respect....in whatever degree you define the word.

I have incredible patience, but you've just worn mine down to the quick.

Either ship up, or get out.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

I'm sad to report that I think the embryo died before I got it home. because I opened up the egg a few minutes ago and it WASN'T moving. 1 thing is for sure I'm NEVER taking an egg home again! But thankfully Lana has saved the other one for me. So I'll see her again in 3 weeks.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

BirdDogg,

I can't even begin to tell you how incredibly disappointed I am in you and your friend Lana. How dare you take it upon yourselves to make a life threatening decision for this unhatched baby pigeon. Further, you have now assured that it was a life ending decision by opening the egg. The odds of this egg actually hatching and the baby surviving would have been very, very slight even if you had a real incubator and brooder, but you have now seen to it that there is no chance for this baby.

You have been banned from Pigeon-Talk by one of our moderators for this very irresponsible act, and as the senior moderator here, I am standing behind that decision. 

Unless it is decided otherwise, you are banned from posting on Pigeon-Talk for the next three months .. that could become a longer time period or a shorter time period, or it could be forever. Please use this time to carefully consider what you have done and also to think about all the advice that was given to you. Please stop with this unreasonable desire of yours to have a baby pigeon that is too young to have any reasonable chance of survival. 

I'm sorry it has ended this way for you, but do realize how it ended for that tiny, innocent, unhatched baby pigeon. Please try to learn some important lessons from this.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

BirdDogg10 said:


> * *I'm sad to report that I think the embryo died before I got it home*. because I opened up the egg a few minutes ago and it WASN'T moving.
> 
> ** *1 thing is for sure I'm NEVER taking an egg home again!*
> 
> *** *But thankfully Lana has saved the other one for me. So I'll see her again in 3 weeks*.


* Unfortunatley, this was just the type of tragedy that was anticipated.  

** You & Lana *NEVER *should have taken the egg away from it's parent in the first place.

Your excuse was: 
*"one of out of the 2 isn't doing so well. She stands up every now and then,"*

The fact that the Mom stands up now & then certainly isn't an indication that she 'isn't doing so well'. 

*** At this point in time BirdDogg, you have no bisuness with one, two or twenty pigeons.

Cindy


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*bird dogg*

hey 
i dont know y the otheres are so frustrated but as i hear the dying of the emboryo was an accident right..?
well dont take it to hard it happpens. happend to me before to more than once.
i dont know y they r spasing @ u but next time you do somthing like that just make sure you know what you are doing an or have an incubator or another pigons to put the egg under. accidents happen i dont know y they arelike "how dare you" your only 14 it happens dont take it to hard on yourself.
king regards


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

pigeonlover01 said:


> hey
> i dont know y the otheres are so frustrated but as i hear the dying of the emboryo was an accident right..?
> well dont take it to hard it happpens. happend to me before to more than once.
> i dont know y they r spasing @ u but next time you do somthing like that just make sure you know what you are doing an or have an incubator or another pigons to put the egg under. accidents happen i dont know y they arelike "how dare you" your only 14 it happens dont take it to hard on yourself.
> king regards



You really don't think it is frustrating that an innocent embroy died for no reason? Just because a kid decided he has to have a young bird, that doesn't give her the right to remove an egg from the parents.
Birds and all animals are not here for our amusement or to experiment with them. They are living creatures they feel, they think, they hurt, they get sad and they can be happy.
Birdog had all the advice in the world, she was asked not to remove a too young baby from the parents and what she did was ignoring us. She did exactly what she wanted and the embryo died. That is very frustrating.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonlover01 said:


> hey
> i dont know y the otheres are so frustrated but as i hear the dying of the emboryo was an accident right..?


Andreas,

This was no accident. A developing egg was intentionally taken from the parents, transported home by BirdDogg, and then the egg opened. This was all quite intentional and caused the certain death of a developing baby pigeon. If you will take the time to read all the threads regarding BirdDogg and her insatiable desire to have a baby pigeon, you will perhaps understand the frustration over this thoughtless and cruel act.

I =personally= offered BirdDogg her choice of two different pairs of very tame young pigeons or a single young pigeon that had also been hand raised and is very tame. My offer was declined. My youngsters are weaned, healthy, and ready to become the beloved pets of someone. BirdDogg either wasn't interested or wasn't able to take any of the birds offered.

I would like to think that a 14 year old would know that opening a developing egg would kill the embryo if it wasn't already dead.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

All, 

I've also received a PM from Andreas......saying basically the same thing defending BirdDogg. Andreas, you seem to be in cahoots with BirdDogg to me and your reasoning is not acceptable in our forum. 

I made the decision to ban BirdDogg and I explained the reasons to you as well as the other moderators. 

If you don't respect or understand that we are a "pro" pigeon forum and don't condone irresponsible behaviour by our members *AFTER WE HAVE EDUCATED THEM AND ALSO ADVISED THEM NUMEROUS TIMES OVER in good conscience*....that is unfortunate and you won't get any compassion back from us.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> All,
> 
> * *I've also received a PM from Andreas*


Count me in on that as well.  

* * * *

Andrea,

Members here bust their fannies, work countless hours through sweat & tears helping our unfortunate feathered friends. 
We are thrilled when the outcome is positive & heartbroken when it isn't.

To read where a member has intentionally taken the life of what could have been a beautiful pigeon, is absolutely heart & gut wrenching. 
There is no excuse in the world for what BirdDogg has done.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Birddog10 & pigeonlover01,

This is a forum that respects young members and makes extra efforts to make them feel welcome and included in the group. Surely there is an understanding of the actions taken and the risk involved, therefore the response.

If a human parent cared more for their own needs being met than the welfare of their children, it would be a sad day for the child in their care as well as society as a whole. 

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

It is hard to add anything more to what has been said. I will just say that I back you all 100% on this one as would anybody who has read as this story unfolded.

Good call.

Cameron


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

You all have my support and then some. Such disrespect of life, how sad 
Daryl
And being 14 is no excuse.


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## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

this is really sad 

The pigeon parents have now lost one of thier babies


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Birddog,
You KNEW that egg contained a live embryo & yet you opened it! WHY would you do that?
Unless you are totally ignorant, you had to know that cracking the egg open would kill that baby pigeon.
You deliberately took a creature's life, with help from Lana. She should have known better.

Shame on both of you!!!

I hope you feel remorse, & will resolve from this day forward, to put a creature's welfare above your own desires.
That's the least you can do for taking Rudy's life.

Phyll


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I just realized that you posted in the thread that I had started about helping a baby out of it's shell............didn't you read the whole post????? My scenario was COMPLETELY different than what yours was AND, where the heck are your parents???? I'm totally disgusted by your actions. I hope it's many years before you get a pigeon,,,,you've got a lot of growing up to do..


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*where the heck are your parents*

and your fourteen years old, you should know better than that. If you were my kids ooooooooooohhhh never mind. You had no right to take that innocent baby pigeon and kill it. You should stop and think what you are doing....... please don't get any more birds, eggs, dogs, cats please.... not until you are responsible and old enough to understand what is takes to nuture and care for a animal... 


Andi

ps i just noticed your in my area, I am on my way over to spank you , and Lana


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am shocked to learn about this act of cruelty, I cannot condone taking a developing embryo away from it's parents.

You did a very cruel thing, you took a life, and put undue stress and emotional trauma on the parent pigeons.

I stand behind the decisions made.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I stopped giving advice awhile back and I support this decision.

I still have some doubts about this ever being an authentic situation. Read her comments carefully about the embryo and having to keep it for 3 weeks.

Maggie


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm with you Maggie..........I have wondered to myself if this was a person just toying with us all and laughing the whole time..........I've pretty much stayed out of it also, because IF THIS PERSON WAS FOR REAL..they were getting the best of advice, although not listening. The thing that bothered me this morning was realizing that she had opened an egg after, what it seemed like to me, she read and posted in my thread about my baby and egg. For an instant I felt some how responsible, but dismissed that idea....IF she's real, surely she knew better...........


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> I stopped giving advice awhile back and I support this decision.
> I still have some doubts about this ever being an authentic situation. Read her comments carefully about the embryo and having to keep it for 3 weeks.
> Maggie



I certainly understand how you feel, I've wondered myself. But we have to keep advising, even if there is just the slightest chance that this is not fiction, for the sake of egg, or pigeon involved.

We always give advice, to be on the safe side, even if they don't ever listen.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Treesa, I agree with everything you said and I did try to help her both on the forum and through PM's. But, at some point in time, enough is enough and I reached that point a few months ago. 

Maggie


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*If the 14 year old is playing everyone*

and is really someone else after 194 post, that is sick. Everyone giving their advice and trying to help... Maybe pigeon.com should screen new people better. DL#? SS# just kidding , but maybe there is a way to screen better. For all we know it could be a pigeon trapper. Yuk 


Andi


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*ouch*

ok now i know y you banned her!
i was just mad because you put her down like that(ps i have no relashion to her) maybe some of the things i said were wrong then i appologize
but even take pigeon eggs from parents thats how i started with rollers
my friends uncle did the same he took an egg from the best german rollers in germany and brought it back incubated it and now he is the workd champion in rollers he has the worlds best.im just saying i think its ok to take the egg if you know how to raise it etc. have i missed something? i hope thats right sorry brad and other ttul 
kind regards and appologies


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> I made the decision to ban BirdDogg and I explained the reasons to you as well as the other moderators.



Brad,

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!

Linda


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonlover01 said:


> im just saying i think its ok to take the egg if you know how to raise it etc. have i missed something? i hope thats right sorry brad and other ttul
> kind regards and appologies


Yes, Andreas .. you have missed a lot! BirdDogg had no pigeons at home .. no foster parents and only a heating pad to "incubate" the egg on. Already the odds for the "egg" were slim. Then she cracked open the egg, and that was the end of anything that had been living inside.

So, a very sad ending to a possible baby pigeon.

Terry


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

All I can say is SAD! VERY SAD!

My daughters at 14 knew better than that! They knew better than that at 8! Maybe even younger! Wonder where the parents are?

Denise


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I do think that birddogg was really who she claimed to be. She is just high minded and set on doing whatever she wants despite any and all advice given her, that's all. A little rebellious thing maybe. 

Turktumb on the other hand struck me immediately as an imposter and I am glad he was banned. To me, the language he used seemed deliberately scripted and carefully crafted to make it appear he was a young person when he was probably an adult imposter in disguise. And then to post that photo of a pigeon getting killed by his Peregrine was such an insult. I noted from his photos how large his hands were and got suspicious right away. Hopefully he won't ever return.

Birddogg will hopefully grow up a little and realize that the messages coming to her aren't just electronic bits and bites but are actually sent by real breathing living human beings who take a lot of time out of their days to help and support those who really need their expertise. They provide an invaluable service to so many, like myself, who have found hurt pigeons and need their assistance. If you are reading this Birddogg please think hard before you come back and start asking for everyones time and efforts. 

Cameron


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## sswig2112 (Oct 15, 2005)

*dogged*

I can understand the act of retrieving eggs if they are in harms way, BUT I'll have to agree with the fourm on the way that BD10 handled her situation in a rather selfish way. I love wild creatures as much as anyone else, But Id never do something to deprive a young of its chance to survive in the wild, but I will help if it is truley doomed otherwise, hence... my Patti Girl.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Banning this person is, unfortunately, appropriate. The posts had become so disturbing I stopped reading them a while back. Troll or immature young person - who knows. Enough is enough.


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