# ectoparasite shot



## sk8er (Jan 8, 2006)

Hi,
Took one of my pijies to a rehabber and got him his ectoparasite shot on the neck. Gave him a bath around 2 hours later. It is not going to affect the shot in any way right ?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Hello SK8er,

Gee....I must be so far behind the curve....I don't even know what kind of shot your bird was given. Then again, 99% of the ailiments I see discussed I have never seen or experienced. 

My birds are for the most part, in a closed system, and not exposed to the things that rehabbers run into all the time. So, what exactly is a "ectoparasite" shot, and what is it to do ?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi,
Was it Ivomectin?
If so then yes, it may affect it. However the drug is also designed to work systemically so it may still be effective because the drug will be in the bloodstream.

PS Warren, an ectoparasite is a parasite which exists outside of the body, ie fleas, ticks, hipposboscids. Endoparasites live within the body, ie worms, coccidia, flukes etc


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

How would a bath alter the efficacy of a shot? Also, while on the topic of Ivermectin (Injectable), this would be also deliverable down the throat and on the back of the neck applied directly to the skin, is this correct? Of the latter two methods, is one more effective than the other or are both about the same?

fp


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

If Ivomec is given by injection it becomes systemic via the bloodstream. Ivomec applied as a drop topically is absorbed through the skin. But some topically applied exctoparasitic drugs spread to cover the entire skin surface over a 24 hour period before becoming impervious. If a bath is given before this 24 hour period is up the drug is diluted and therefore efficiency is impaired.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nooti said:


> If Ivomec is given by injection it becomes systemic via the bloodstream. Ivomec applied as a drop topically is absorbed through the skin. But some topically applied exctoparasitic drugs spread to cover the entire skin surface over a 24 hour period before becoming impervious. If a bath is given before this 24 hour period is up the drug is diluted and therefore efficiency is impaired.


Hi Nooti,

So if given by shot, they still should not be bathed? Think the pigeon was given a shot.....

Just for my info, the injectible can be given as drops _on the neck?_

Thanks,

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> So, what exactly is a "ectoparasite" shot, and what is it to do ?



Ecto-means parasites on the outside of the bird, like mites, lice, and flies.

I didn't know there was a shot for that!

Endo parasites are found inside the bird , like lung worms, worms such as tapeworms.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Treesa, I think the Ivermectin is supposed to get internal and external parasites, especially mites that feed off the blood supply. Don't know how effective this would be for lice? The Scatt would work on the same principle, as it also gets external mites.

fp


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> Ecto-means parasites on the outside of the bird, like mites, lice, and flies. I didn't know there was a shot for that!


Even though parasites live on the outside of the body they still feed from the inside - namely tapping into the blood supply, so an injection given will still affect them. Ivomec affects both extos and endos


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Treesa, I think the Ivermectin is supposed to get internal and external parasites, especially mites that feed off the blood supply. Don't know how effective this would be for lice? The Scatt would work on the same principle, as it also gets external mites.
> 
> fp


Yep, I knew about the Ivertmectin that it would kill blood sucking mites, anything that eat off the blood, yuk  

So I use the Anti-sect 2000 for anything external, Scatt for blood sucking mites & lung worms , and a de-wormer for those parasites like worms in the intestines and such. hope that covers everything....

Might just be easier to get the Endo-Ecto parasite drops that you put on the foot once a month, but I still don't know what the active ingredient is in that, as Siegel's never answered my e-mail.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nooti said:


> Even though parasites live on the outside of the body they still feed from the inside - namely tapping into the blood supply, so an injection given will still affect them. Ivomec affects both extos and endos



Hi Helen,

Even lice?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Are you talking feather lice? 
If so then according to the books Ivomec will still deal with them but I think I would be happier giving the bird a spraying too.
http://www.federmilben.de/en/control.html
You will probably find this link interesting as it deals with using ivomec for these little critters


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nooti, do you have an opinion on placing down the throat or spotting? Both produce the same results, or is one better than the other, and is the injectible OK to spot with? Is the spotting amount the same as the oral dose?

fp


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Jeez - not sure on all that. would have to research it and I'm getting towards end of day here. I'll see what I can do tomorrow


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## sk8er (Jan 8, 2006)

sorry to cause all this confusion. It wasnt a shot. They put the drip on the syringie and just put 1-2 DROPS on the back of the neck. No pocking with the needle.
Would a bath after 2 hours still affect it ?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

sk8er said:


> sorry to cause all this confusion. It wasnt a shot. They put the drip on the syringie and just put 1-2 DROPS on the back of the neck. No pocking with the needle.
> Would a bath after 2 hours still affect it ?


 OK,

That explains a lot ! Thank you.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

feralpigeon said:


> Nooti, do you have an opinion on placing down the throat or spotting? Both produce the same results, or is one better than the other, and is the injectible OK to spot with? Is the spotting amount the same as the oral dose?
> 
> fp



Hi Fp, 

The injectible is the kind that can be given orally. When my vet first prescribed ivermectin for my birds, I asked her which kind it was. I'm not 100% certain of the injectible's effectiveness when used topically. I do know there is an ivomec specifically used for this, it's called the ivermectin pour on. I think it has to do with how easily one or the other is absorbed into the skin and whether or not it will be washed off with water.

As for the dose for topical vs orally, I'm not sure either. Some pigeon fanciers recommend a few drops on the back of the neck, the oral dose would probably be similar if you measured it out.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

sk8er said:


> No pocking with the needle.
> Would a bath after 2 hours still affect it ?


In short - yes.. You should have kept all water away from the bird apart from what can be left to drink in a small bowl that she cannot get into.
Sorry, I was under the impression it had been an injection.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi folks, duh, I looked it up, sorry about that....  

Really sorry about that, but anyway, guess the dose is the same orally or topically, but what is confusing is that it says that it can be used topically on affected areas or given orally. But I remember the vet giving it similarly to how sk8er described, on the back of the neck.

Was surprised to see that it says it is effective against some but not all coccidia. Guess there have been toxic reactions to IM for small birds.

fp


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

feralpigeon said:


> Guess there have been toxic reactions to IM for small birds.
> fp



You should really only give antibiotics IM. Other injections are best given Sub Q. However Baytril given IM for a length of time will cause flesh burns and severe bruising


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nooti said:


> You should really only give antibiotics IM. Other injections are best given Sub Q. However Baytril given IM for a length of time will cause flesh burns and severe bruising


Not to worry, I'm injection impaired


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nooti said:


> Are you talking feather lice?
> If so then according to the books Ivomec will still deal with them but I think I would be happier giving the bird a spraying too.
> http://www.federmilben.de/en/control.html
> You will probably find this link interesting as it deals with using ivomec for these little critters



Yes, I would rather spray for the feather lice. Thank you for the link, Helen, I've bookmarked it.


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