# Need Help Asap



## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

One of my pigeons is being really sluggish, it is skinny and it can’t seem to fly…
…What could be wrong with it and what should I do?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Have you checked the mouth/throat for canker?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He doesn't look too good indeed. His eyes look tired.
Isolate him,put him on a heating pad set on low covered by a towel. Offer water, see if he drinks. 
Do a mouth check for canker and observe his poops. You can offer food and see if he eats.
Let us know and we take it from there.
BTW, is it male or female? Young or old? Is this a new bird?

Reti


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Have you checked the mouth/throat for canker?


Yes I have.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Isolate that pigeon where you can watch it to see if it is eating and drinking in awhile because it will be scared in a new area for isolation--keep us updated--so people can advise you what to do. Isolate keep warm and keep private and watch it for now so as you know what to do (might be going light)???????Keep us posted.......on condition...
c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Reti said:


> He doesn't look too good indeed. His eyes look tired.
> Isolate him,put him on a heating pad set on low covered by a towel. Offer water, see if he drinks.
> Do a mouth check for canker and observe his poops. You can offer food and see if he eats.
> Let us know and we take it from there.
> ...


OK, I'll do that. I already tried to get him to eat, and he wouldn't.
I believe it is a male, I got him about a year ago, I guess he is probably two years old.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Don't force him to eat yet, first you need to get fluids into him. Do you have pedialyte?

Reti


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Isolate that pigeon where you can watch it to see if it is eating and drinking in awhile because it will be scared in a new area for isolation--keep us updated--so people can advise you what to do. Isolate keep warm and keep private and watch it for now so as you know what to do (might be going light)???????Keep us posted.......on condition...
> c.hert


I will do that.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Reti said:


> Don't force him to eat yet, first you need to get fluids into him. Do you have pedialyte?
> 
> Reti


What is pedialyte? I don't know if I've ever heard of it...


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I hope this bird is going to be okay---I see you have straw in your picture---take all straw out because it holds moisture and creats fungus and thats serious..You can get some tobacco sticks from Siegel"s Pigeon Supply--1-800-437-4436 You can get a 6 lb box for 7.95 and also sent for a free catalogue..Foys sells them too but seigles have cleaner and thinner ones--- Its better to have a plain floor that you scrap everyday then to have a straw one---disease producing as well as respiratory---pine needles are good too--but a wire floor is the best----no straw---these birds are not chickens...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

c.hert said:


> I hope this bird is going to be okay---I see you have straw in your picture---take all straw out because it holds moisture and creats fungus and thats serious..You can get some tobacco sticks from Siegel"s Pigeon Supply--1-800-437-4436 You can get a 6 lb box for 7.95 and also sent for a free catalogue..Foys sells them too but seigles have cleaner and thinner ones--- Its better to have a plain floor that you scrap everyday then to have a straw one---disease producing as well as respiratory---pine needles are good too--but a wire floor is the best----no straw---these birds are not chickens...c.hert


The straw never gave me trouble before, but I'll take it out if I have to. What are the tobacco sticks for anyway?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Tobacco stems have superior insect-repelling properties. I used to collect pine needles for my pigeons' nests but stopped after we developed a problem with depluming mites. I'm pretty sure the mites came in on the pine needles because I hadn't brought in any new birds or let mine out to free fly, yet we somehow got mites. The tobacco stems are nice and clean and the pigeons like them as nesting material.

C. Hert made a good point: it's better to scrape the floor than have straw as litter. I used to use pine shavings but I stopped because even those can get damp and hold moisture.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It's ideal nest material and it fights against external parasites like red mites and it does not hold moisture because it is a stick and birds love them as well as a natural product..
You can read all about them in Foys or Seigals catalogue--or go online at their web addresses to see them....www.siegelpigeons.com or www.foyspigeonsupplies.com and read all about them--better than going around in this cold and damp collecting pine sticks for our babies..summertime for that.... c.herts


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Continued::if you do collect pine needles clean them real good and I believe you can lightly bake them in the oven to get all bugs off of them like mites--but tobacco stems are so much easier and cleaner.....c.herts


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*UPDATE:* He was laying down with his eyes closed when I went to get him from the loft... But he perked up a little when I put him on the heating pad. 
So, is there anything else I can/should do for him now?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

pedialyte is a brand name that is a pediatric electrolyte--it helps to restore body water back and minerals that are lost possibly in diarrhea or vomiting --its like hydrating a bird but do not get the sweet kind--get the unflavored kind in the baby supply areas of the store--some people use gatoraide but I don"t prefer that because of the sweetness--get plain pedialyte--store people will help you.. Just advice right now and I"m sure with this next sentence I have opinions right and left......For now sit the bird on a clean towel or paper towel--no newspaper---and take it off the heating pad for now---put the heating pad on the side of the cage--you must remember until you can get it diagnosed that this bird just come out of the loft and that sitting on the heating pad might be too much for it--just can't it normal warm until you decide what the problem really is for now --hydrate and keep an eye on it--later if it doesn't eat---later--give it some seed by hand---open its mouth and put some in--for small seed I use a spoon and open and slide some in and the bird usually swallows it fine---be more careful with water and don't feed it too much......little by little....c.herts...... The heating pad on the side of the cage will still keep it warm--throw a towel over the cage to keep the heat in--put it on Low setting---continually hydrate but for now watch the bird to see if it eats and drinks on its own--..


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, give him some pedyalite, use a dropper and dribble it inside the side of the beak, unless you have seen him drink.

Then force feed him in an hour after he has warmed up. This is crucial because left on their own, they will first die of dehydration/starvation rather then the disease that is causing them not to eat. 

Time is of the essence....


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

OK, thank you for all the help.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

He died! 

Thanks for all of your help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

To a cup of warm water, add a pinch of salt, and a pinch of sugar. Get him to drink it. If he won't then try dropping a bit on the side of his beak and see if he will swallow it. This will rehydrate a dehydrated bird in case he hasn't been drinking for a while.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have you wormed your birds?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't see that he had died. Sorry. How are the other birds acting? Do their poops look okay? Handle them and try to tell if any of them are going light.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Have you wormed your birds?


Yes, I did worm them. And thank you for telling me how to help a dehydrated bird. I will keep ahold of that in case I need it in the future but unfortunately I lost this pigeon before your posts. I am hoping none of the other pigeons get sick.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't see that he had died. Sorry. How are the other birds acting? Do their poops look okay? Handle them and try to tell if any of them are going light.


They were acting fine but I think their poop is a little mushy and a tad green. I will have to handle them. I was stressing over the sick one but now I need to check the others.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm sorry you lost him - When did you worm your birds last? And how many times?


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> I'm sorry you lost him - When did you worm your birds last? And how many times?


It’s been four or five months. I did twice.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ThePigeonKid said:


> It’s been four or five months. I did twice.


You might want to consider worming everybody again. See if they pass any worms.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

rotate your dewormers, and be sure to follow up like the directions tell you. sorry you lost one of your birds. hope it is not something viral or bacterial.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

What do you mean by "rotating dewormers?"


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ThePigeonKid said:


> What do you mean by "rotating dewormers?"


rotating means revolving, switching types as worms/parasites can build up immunities to dewormers that are over used and only singly used. in other words switch the different kinds of meds used regualry.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks for the advice.


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## shalimar (Nov 23, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear about the Pigeon...


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

I was checking the pigeon's weight... And this one was also really skinny, but seems much more alert and not as sluggish. I didn't get to check all of the pigeons, so I'll finish tomorrow. I brought the skinny one inside to warm up and monitor.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Here is a pic of his poop.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sorry your having these problems right now and sure hope your pigeons do much better and sorry about the one that died...Keep warm and hydrated and observe and let us know whats happening--I hope it is not going light....looks like it might need to go to a vet for hydration of the body and a good check up from the vet and maybe just the right medicines that they can proscribe after checking it out---I would do this because one already died and you certainly don't want a string of them...c.herts


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I know I sound like a broken record, but I would worm the bird that you just brought inside to see if he passes any worms.
I hate to start a bird on antibiotics if I don't know what I'm treating. At least worming is safe and it can rule out whether its internal parasites.
This is my reason for this -- The 1st 6 years that I had pigeons, I never wormed and had no reason to treat - had no illnesses. I adopted 11 homers and tumblers from the spca (they were seized for neglect), that's when my problems started. Birds started "going light" and were thin. My vet told me to worm them, so I did (with ivermectin). There were worms EVERYWHERE! I also lost 3 birds within 6 hours after worming - they had a reaction to ivermectin (paralysis). I had to repeat it in 2 weeks. My vet told me I should routinely worm them about every 3 months. So that's what I did and everything was good.
Then a couple years ago, a few members here said that you should NOT worm routinely. So I changed my worming routine to twice a year. It didn't take long when I would notice a bird sitting on the floor when I walked into the loft, feeling "a little thin". So I would bring it inside and worm it - passed LOADS of worms. Then perked right up and started eating within 12 hours!
This happened to a couple different birds in a short time, so I wormed everybody again and went back to every 3 month wormings. AND they pass roundworms every time!
This "worm thing" has me baffled and at my wits end - I follow the instructions, I rotate worming meds, I clean and scrub regularly AND especially the days after worming and its ongoing.
Some people disagree when I say this, but I've been irritated about this worming issue that I did as much research on it as I could. I have access to a veterinary(only) forum through work. And some of the top avain vets in the country are quoted as saying "it is nearly impossible to clear a large flock of roundworms, therefore they should be on a routine worming schedule". In MY case I have found this to be true. I have done everything by the book as far as worming. So worming regularly keeps my birds healthy.
If I do have to bring a bird I find sitting on the floor inside, and when I worm it 1st (after checking for canker) - if it _doesn't_ pass any worms then I know something else is going on.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Also make sure the feed and water are not getting contaminated by the poop. Use feeders and drinkers into which the pigeon can insert its neck portion.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Update:*

He is doing a little better. I wormed him at 8:14am.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

This is not from worms!! You need to give this bird Amoxicillin 2.5% pills down the throat once daily. The bird is suffering from a bacterial infection that is ravaging the body. Isolate this bird and watch all other birds as this will spread. I would remove all feeders and waterers and soak them in bleach. You will need to clean the loft as well with a product called Virkon-S to kill all bacteria and viruses within the loft. If you do not take these precautions you risk losing ALOT of birds. Make sure you remove any seeds that may be on the floor that rodents (mice) can get to. They carry salmanella and cause Paratyphoid. These 2 diseases symptoms mirror exactly what these birds are showing. Take this advice from someone who went thru this and had to learn the hard way by losing over 40 birds before I figured it out. Good luck and keep us posted. By the way, the bird may die within 48 hrs after the treatment but if it doesn't you should see improvement within 3 day and cured within 10 days. Do not stop the treatment before 10 days. Do not use the water solution as treatment as it is not as effective if the bird does not take enough medication in. Use the pills. 
Ken


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

whitesnmore said:


> This is not from worms!! You need to give this bird Amoxicillin 2.5% pills down the throat once daily. The bird is suffering from a bacterial infection that is ravaging the body. Isolate this bird and watch all other birds as this will spread. I would remove all feeders and waterers and soak them in bleach. You will need to clean the loft as well with a product called Virkon-S to kill all bacteria and viruses within the loft. If you do not take these precautions you risk losing ALOT of birds. Make sure you remove any seeds that may be on the floor that rodents (mice) can get to. They carry salmanella and cause Paratyphoid. These 2 diseases symptoms mirror exactly what these birds are showing. Take this advice from someone who went thru this and had to learn the hard way by losing over 40 birds before I figured it out. Good luck and keep us posted. By the way, the bird may die within 48 hrs after the treatment but if it doesn't you should see improvement within 3 day and cured within 10 days. Do not stop the treatment before 10 days. Do not use the water solution as treatment as it is not as effective if the bird does not take enough medication in. Use the pills.
> Ken


Where can we get these at? I looked on Foy’s and the tablets were out of stock. Plus I would like to get them today. My Dad called a local feed store and they didn’t have any. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks so much for all your help.

*Update:* I am afraid six more look the same.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Does the local feed store your Dad called have Sulmet or Albon in stock by any chance? If not, could you list any antibiotics that they do stock.

Karyn


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry he didn't make it, Pigeon Kid. A number of ailments can cause a pigeon to lose weight, including worms. It's hard to know what the problem is without having a vet diagnose it, so you're kind of "shooting in the dark" with medication. You can order antibiotics from one of the pigeon supply houses but even a rush order will take several days to arrive and it may be too late for one or more of your pigeons. A vet, even if not an avian specialist, will have antibiotics on hand. Is there _any_ way you can get a vet to look at one of your sick birds? 

As Waynette said, a preventative medication program is essential. I treat my pigeons three or four times a year with mixed medications for canker, coccidiosis and worms and have never had problems with those things. But your birds may or may not have one of those problems. It could also be e-coli or something else.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

At this point you need to do a flock treatment:: See if Foys or Seigals have Tylan powder and (old # is 559) and get Doxycycline 20%(Powder) Mix 2 teaspoons per gallon of water for the Tylan Powder them mix in 1 teaspoon of Doxycycline and mix well together and put in a crock water dish or a plastic but not a metal one. For tomorrow get a gallon of cold water ready and leave sit overnight so that the clorine gets out of it.
Pick up all grit and seed and water and do as other people have said:Clorox and clean, clean, scrape and scrape and sweep scrape more and clorox more all the feeding supplies . The clorine of drinking water affects medicines so get another gallon ready for tomorrow or mix it and put in ice box ahead of time and leave overnight. Good luck to you ---you have a real bad sickness in your loft---you will work through it like everyone else and get better at raising pigeons to keep them healthy. The best I can think of..c.herts


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Birdmom4ever said:


> I'm so sorry he didn't make it, Pigeon Kid. A number of ailments can cause a pigeon to lose weight, including worms. It's hard to know what the problem is without having a vet diagnose it, so you're kind of "shooting in the dark" with medication. You can order antibiotics from one of the pigeon supply houses but even a rush order will take several days to arrive and it may be too late for one or more of your pigeons. A vet, even if not an avian specialist, will have antibiotics on hand. Is there _any_ way you can get a vet to look at one of your sick birds?
> 
> As Waynette said, a preventative medication program is essential. I treat my pigeons three or four times a year with mixed medications for canker, coccidiosis and worms and have never had problems with those things. But your birds may or may not have one of those problems. It could also be e-coli or something else.


No, I cannot take him to the vet at this time. My Mom and Dad do as much to support our interests as they can but at this time finances are extremely tight. My Mom just finished up with Cancer and then a weeks stay at the hospital for an infection. On Christmas day my cat started looking sick. We called the vets the next day and made an appointment for Monday. But we ended up having to take him in as an emergency on Sunday. Praise God! He made it after staying there two days and me medicating him at home for a couple of weeks. But that trip cost $600 and my $50 Christmas money from my grandparents which I gave as a deposit. I had hoped to use that money for medicines for the pigeons. Now we are hoping we can figure this out without a vet by just purchasing the medicine. But if I could I would.

My Dad just emailed from work and the feed store has the Sulmet so he is going to get that. But he did get a number to a bird specialist for the future when finances improve.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If you give me your address in my message box I will mail you the medicine that I wrote about for you at least to get started...c.herts


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

c.hert said:


> At this point you need to do a flock treatment:: See if Foys or Seigals have Tylan powder and (old # is 559) and get Doxycycline 20%(Powder) Mix 2 teaspoons per gallon of water for the Tylan Powder them mix in 1 teaspoon of Doxycycline and mix well together and put in a crock water dish or a plastic but not a metal one. For tomorrow get a gallon of cold water ready and leave sit overnight so that the clorine gets out of it.
> Pick up all grit and seed and water and do as other people have said:Clorox and clean, clean, scrape and scrape and sweep scrape more and clorox more all the feeding supplies . The clorine of drinking water affects medicines so get another gallon ready for tomorrow or mix it and put in ice box ahead of time and leave overnight. Good luck to you ---you have a real bad sickness in your loft---you will work through it like everyone else and get better at raising pigeons to keep them healthy. The best I can think of..c.herts


Thank you for your advice. I just can't understand why this didn't happen last year. Thank God it didn't but why now??? Going to work on loft.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

let me have you address and I will mail you the medicine for you to try....put it in my message thing c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

GOT IT . On my way to somewhere to get it overnight mail--touch bases later...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

c.hert said:


> GOT IT . On my way to somewhere to get it overnight mail--touch bases later...c.hert


Thanks so much!!!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It will be there before 10:30 am and in the meanwhile get some heat into your loft without burning it down or getting electiculted and close off all drafts and when you get the medicine follow directions a little more or less won't hurt but figure it out pretty good and put some down immediately in your sickest birds mouth--three or four time a day like as they drink) bring the sickest ones inside to get some heat to them and start this medicine the minute you get it with the sickest ones first--you give it to them for they might not be able to drink and feed them little by little (baby peas, baby cereal, and your seed mix, lettuce, hard boiled eggs--don't overfed--don't overfluid and keep things at room temperature---nothing cold to chill already cold either if you have to warm it slightly on the stove-----good luck---it might not work but at least it will keep you busy and productive---bring the sickest ones into the house to put the medicine down there mouths 3 or 4 times a day with food.......good luck---c.herts


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

> My Dad just emailed from work and the feed store has the Sulmet so he is going to get that.


Sulmet is a very good antibiotic that gives good coverage for many types of infections. Even though c.herts, has stepped in and helped you out here, I think it would be a good medicine to have on hand in the future.

C.herts, thanks for stepping up and helping ThePigeonKid out with the meds in a vey quick fashion. Glad you're on the forum.

Karyn


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks....c.herts


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

c.hert said:


> It will be there before 10:30 am and in the meanwhile get some heat into your loft without burning it down or getting electiculted and close off all drafts and when you get the medicine follow directions a little more or less won't hurt but figure it out pretty good and put some down immediately in your sickest birds mouth--three or four time a day like as they drink) bring the sickest ones inside to get some heat to them and start this medicine the minute you get it with the sickest ones first--you give it to them for they might not be able to drink and feed them little by little (baby peas, baby cereal, and your seed mix, lettuce, hard boiled eggs--don't overfed--don't overfluid and keep things at room temperature---nothing cold to chill already cold either if you have to warm it slightly on the stove-----good luck---it might not work but at least it will keep you busy and productive---bring the sickest ones into the house to put the medicine down there mouths 3 or 4 times a day with food.......good luck---c.herts


Thank you for helping him out and with the very sound advice. I just want to re-iterate that if he doesnt clean- clean- clean and just takes the short cut with the meds he will be back to square one in 10-15 days.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Whitesnmore::: absolutely...c.herts


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks for everything! I know the importance of keeping the loft clean. Thanks again for all of your help!

I cleaned the loft again, the water pan, the food trough, and made sure there was no drafts


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

The medicine hasn't arrived yet and it is 1:00, should I give the pigeons the Sulmet (that my Dad got after work last night)? Will it hurt anything?

EDIT: A farmer who owns pigs lost some recently, they died because of some bad corn that he fed them. It seems that this is kind of widespread. Could this affect the pigeons? Does anyone know any more about this problem?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hold on a bit to see if it comes this afternoon. If they do not come by later today we can get your birds started on the Sulmet, I am glad you bought it. Can you please confirm the strength of the Sulmet your Dad purchsed.

With the corn, when animals die from bad corn/feed/grains, a likely cause is from what are called aflotoxins (you can do a Google search on this) it can affect our birds, but I do not think this is the problem with your birds.

Karyn


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Hold on a bit to see if it comes this afternoon. If they do not come by later today we can get your birds started on the Sulmet, I glad you bought it.
> 
> With the corn, when animals die from bad corn/feed/grains, a likely cause is from what are called aflotoxins (you can do a Google search on this) it can affect our birds, but I do not think this is the problem with your birds.
> 
> Karyn


OK, thanks. I just wanted to make sure.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

UPDATE: The medicine just arrived!  Thank you very much! Thanks!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Good! Please follow c.hert's instructions on how to mix the meds, as well as his suggestion about giving your sickest birds some directly by syringe/eye dropper 3-4 times a day, as well as leaving it for them to drink from their water dish. You have to make sure they are all drinking the medicated water.

Karyn


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

So glad you got the medicine for I was about to jump around with fed-ex. Put the amount of medicine it tells you in one gallon water and shake well and give individual amounts to the sick birds and leave the rest in your water bowls--no metal containers--pick up all grit and change those water things out everyday with no medicine for the birdies and get all straw out of your loft and have no drafts--put in heat if you can a little until they get well--you are going some birds---but I am hoping it will contain the rest but it is winter time and real cold and I wish you had a warmer place to keep them in because of them being able to conserve energy in order to get well--but work on things as you can and it is the best that we can do---good luck---and welcome to the pigeons problem side of raising pigeons....c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Be very careful giving your birds water with a syringe. If you are not careful you can drown them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

whitesnmore said:


> This is not from worms!! You need to give this bird Amoxicillin 2.5% pills down the throat once daily. The bird is suffering from a bacterial infection that is ravaging the body. Isolate this bird and watch all other birds as this will spread.
> 
> You are making some pretty strong statements here. How do you even know what this bird had? You have no way of knowing. Better to have a vet check the bird, or maybe test the poops. At least then you would know what to medicate with, as you would know what you were medicating for. This could be lots of different things, and by overlooking that possibility, you could be missing what it is, and therefore not using the correct medication.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Update:* I medicated and fed the ones inside (three sickest that couldn't fly) and then went and took care of the ones in the loft.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Be very careful giving your birds water with a syringe. If you are not careful you can drown them.


Jay3, good observation, yes, a little at a time, to the side of their beaks. 



> Better to have a vet check the bird, or maybe test the poops. At least then you would know what to medicate with, as you would know what you were medicating for.


I think ThePigeonKid has said a vet is not a possibility right now because of family circumstances. Although if a dropping could be taken to a local vet to rule the infections that can be determined through a fecal float, it would be nice. ThePigeonKid, most vets don't change much to do a test on some poop, so you may want to ask your parents if this is at all a possibility, if not, no harm done in asking.

Karyn


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Dobato said:


> ThePigeonKid, most vets don't change much to do a test on some poop, so you may want to ask your parents if this is at all a possibility, if not, no harm done in asking.


I mentioned this to Mom, she says that Dad can call the vet tomorrow about it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

PigeonKid...what medication was sent to you?


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Jay3 said:


> whitesnmore said:
> 
> 
> > This is not from worms!! You need to give this bird Amoxicillin 2.5% pills down the throat once daily. The bird is suffering from a bacterial infection that is ravaging the body. Isolate this bird and watch all other birds as this will spread.
> ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

whitesnmore said:


> Jay3 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay3, No. 1 -- A vet was not an option. No. 2 I have yet to see a pigeon with worms not eat like crazy to put on weight. No. 3- Reading the post show the pigeon was thin, showed no desire to eat, eyes closing, with greenish and mushy droppings. The picture shown of the bird shows a bird that is not far from death which turned out to happen, unfortunately. Yes these are strong statements based on experience not guessing. I am curious as to why you would want to attack me when all the symptoms show signs of coccidiosis and amoxicillin 2.5 pills are a general antiobiotic that may very well have saved this pigeons life. My statements were not attacking anyone they were to HELP. For anyone not familiar with the symptoms of this disease the following describes it and fits this birds symptoms to a T.
> ...


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Jay3 said:


> You are making some pretty strong statements here. How do you even know what this bird had? You have no way of knowing.


I read, you read! Enough said. Move on.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Charis said:


> PigeonKid...what medication was sent to you?


Tylan Powder & Doxycycline I think, I can’t check right now, as I am at my grandma’s house. I’ll check tomorrow to be sure.


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

Good luck buddy. hope he gets better. keep a cose eye on the rest of your flock just in case.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Columba livia! said:


> Good luck buddy. hope he gets better. keep a cose eye on the rest of your flock just in case.


Thanks! Fifteen or more seem to have it, only three seem to need special attention at the moment. I will keep a close eye on all of them though.


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## kbbigman (Jun 4, 2009)

Good luck TPK I know it's not nice when your birds are poorly, you have been thru so much of late to have this strike you as well, all I can say is you have coped so well with what's been thrown at you and your family that it will have made you a stronger person and more able to cope with this with the help from everyone on here.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ThePigeonKid said:


> Tylan Powder & Doxycycline I think, I can’t check right now, as I am at my grandma’s house. I’ll check tomorrow to be sure.


OK...Do you know what you are treating your birds for because I'm kind of confused?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

charis: These are two broad based antibiotics that I sent him for him to get started on something in order to try to save his birds--he has a lot of them sick at this point so I at this point mailed him these two antibiotics to start a treatment to see if we can possibly improve conditions for himself and his birdies...I sent him these for bacteria treatment that seems very contageous at this point and we have all tried hard to figure this out in the last few days--so this is a last ditch effort to do something rather than nothing and we are all hanging out waiting to see if we get any kind of a positive result coming forth in the next few days.. say a prayer that they begin to work...c.herts


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

whitesnmore said:


> Jay3, No. 1 -- A vet was not an option. No. 2 I have yet to see a pigeon with worms not eat like crazy to put on weight. No. 3- Reading the post show the pigeon was thin, showed no desire to eat, eyes closing, with greenish and mushy droppings. The picture shown of the bird shows a bird that is not far from death which turned out to happen, unfortunately. Yes these are strong statements based on experience not guessing. I am curious as to why you would want to attack me when all the symptoms show signs of coccidiosis and amoxicillin 2.5 pills are a general antiobiotic that may very well have saved this pigeons life. My statements were not attacking anyone they were to HELP. For anyone not familiar with the symptoms of this disease the following describes it and fits this birds symptoms to a T.
> 
> "Symptoms of Coccidiosis include little or no desire to eat or drink. Pigeons with Coccidiosis will remain puffed up on perches, and they lack any desire to move, often closing their eyes. Droppings are usually very loose, GREENISH in color, and may become very watery. Weight loss is another symptom, and death can occur in young birds."
> 
> ...


Seeing as your post is about worming, I assume its safe to think that you are referring to my post.
With that, I am going to defend my position.
At the start of a worm infestation they DO eat alot, *then they stop eating, loose weight, sit on the floor puffed up*. At first you think you have a healthy pigeon with a GREAT appetite. The worms are breaking down their resistance, weakening them and opening them up to other issues.
That's why I suggest worming first (IF you can't get to a vet). Worming them does not hurt them, and can be used as a "process of elimination". If it IS worm infestation, they will start passing them right away and you will know.
If NO worms pass, then you know to start looking for other causes (which I stated in my previous post) - most common #2 cause could be coccidia, which I agree that c.hert's advise is excellent too! But what's wrong with ruling out worms if it's not going to hurt them? If it IS worm infestation, amoxicillin is NOT going to help them.
I am far from being a "know it all" and I'd be the 1st to admit it.
Pigeonkid's problem sounded very similar to what I have been going thru in the past years - so my suggestion was based on what has been working for me. I haven't had to go to step #2 because worming them solved the problem.
When you can't get to a vet (or don't have a good one), it's guesswork and a process of elimination. The symptom's that Pigeonkid described can belong to a number of different problems - that is why I like to rule out the easiest with the safest treatment first.
I really don't understand why you feel the need to jump right in with an attitude. We are all here to help the best we can with what we have. And for you (and the other members that you mentioned that don't offer advise) to think otherwise is pretty sad IMHO.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

ThePigeonKid said:


> *Update:*
> 
> He is doing a little better. I wormed him at 8:14am.


That was not the problem. Nothing come out.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ThePigeonKid said:


> That was not the problem. Nothing come out.


OK  I'm glad he's doing better, keep us posted


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

we are all doing the best that we can under these difficult circumstances and this is a process of elimination at this point to try to solve these problems...Tylan has some inflammatory help agents and I hope the digestive track settles down for us to see where we are going and I know it is safe with Doxycycline 20% powder that fights gram positive and negative bacteria as well as other things can be added to it safely later if need be and we will work through this together for I need your imput as well as the owners telling us how the pigeons are :breathing:droppings:strength:eating:blinking eyes:etc etc and its good for his case of depression and worry as well for he is doing something productive I hope...The Tylan should be dropped in five days and then he should continue with the Doxyclcline for another 5 days after that and if everything looks good then we should start on some Probiotics after we made a decision to get off antibiotics at that time----if these pigeons make it----keep our fingers crossed.. c.hert


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Fingers crossed


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Msfreebird said:


> Seeing as your post is about worming, I assume its safe to think that you are referring to my post.
> With that, I am going to defend my position.
> At the start of a worm infestation they DO eat alot, *then they stop eating, loose weight, sit on the floor puffed up*. At first you think you have a healthy pigeon with a GREAT appetite. The worms are breaking down their resistance, weakening them and opening them up to other issues.
> That's why I suggest worming first (IF you can't get to a vet). Worming them does not hurt them, and can be used as a "process of elimination". If it IS worm infestation, they will start passing them right away and you will know.
> ...


I was not refering to anyone in particular. I was correcting a obvious wrong diagnosis based on the most important difference between worm problem symptoms and cocci sypmtoms which was the Greenish/mushy droppings. An attitude I did not have, a strong opinion as to the solution, I did. If taking exception to a post directed towards me that "I could not possibly know what the bird had" is an attitude then so be it. How is it possible that I could not know what it is, yet others can know it is worms? We both were given the same info. Based on the info I posted I think it is obvious that the possibilities of cocci are far greater than worms. I only noticed one post being told they could not possibly know what the bird had, why is that? This is not about me being wrong or you being wrong this is about the attacks on individuals who attempt to HELP. Is the purpose of this to jump anyone who disagrees with the first person responding? Are there not humans responding that are prone to errors? The perpetuating of this "conflict" after I suggested we "move on" is the perfect example of why individuals do not want to express themselves here, and yes, I agree with you that is sad. If you care to PM me in regards to your final sentence with a example as to why you included ME in the statement I would be interested to know how you conclude "I dont think people are on here to help with the best of their ability." 
Bottom line is, I was not attacking any one individual, I was attempting to help TPK save his birds. Again, I suggest we move on to the solution and learn something from each other.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

whitesnmore said:


> I read, you read! Enough said. Move on.


That wasn't an attack. Only a statement of fact.

Now you move on!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

whitesnmore said:


> I was not refering to anyone in particular. *I **was correcting a obvious wrong diagnosis *based on the most important difference between worm problem symptoms and cocci sypmtoms which was the Greenish/mushy droppings. An attitude I did not have, a strong opinion as to the solution, I did. If taking exception to a post directed towards me that "I could not possibly know what the bird had" is an attitude then so be it. *How is it possible that I could not know what it is, yet others* *can know it is worms?* We both were given the same info. Based on the info I posted I think it is obvious that the possibilities of cocci are far greater than worms. I only noticed one post being told they could not possibly know what the bird had, why is that? This is not about me being wrong or you being wrong this is about the attacks on individuals who attempt to HELP. Is the purpose of this to jump anyone who disagrees with the first person responding? Are there not humans responding that are prone to errors? The perpetuating of this "conflict" after I suggested we "move on" is the perfect example of why individuals do not want to express themselves here, and yes, I agree with you that is sad. If you care to PM me in regards to your final sentence with a example as to why you included ME in the statement I would be interested to know how you conclude "I dont think people are on here to help with the best of their ability."
> Bottom line is, I was not attacking any one individual, I was attempting to help TPK save his birds. Again, I suggest we move on to the solution and learn something from each other.


There was no diagnosis.
I stand by my first suggestion (post #27). - He wormed the bird, nothing passed, no harm done with the worming - ruled out!
c.hert has stepped in with great advise, so the rest of us are stepping back because he has a good handle on it. That's usually the way it works.

So as far as the rest of your post  Your the one that jumped in with the "strong opinion, diagnosis and accusations"
I have the right to defend my opinion, in public. I have and I'm done. 
You've expressed yourself, I've expressed myself, Now - back to the birds


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You two are silly but I know one thing -you sure do love animals--this I know...We will see what ThePigeonKid tells us and I am eating scrabbled eggs and bacon---mmm good.
c.herts


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

c.hert said:


> You two are silly but I know one thing -you sure do love animals--this I know...We will see what ThePigeonKid tells us and I am eating scrabbled eggs and bacon---mmm good.
> c.herts


mmmmmm, I'm a poached egg on hash kinda girl


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

and coffee too......


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

c.hert said:


> and coffee too......


HAZELNUT!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

you are spoiled..c.hert


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I am posting to not to take sides in the bit back and forth going on, but because I think it's important that courses of treatment are made clear.



whitesnmore said:


> Jay3, No. 1 -- A vet was not an option. No. 2 I have yet to see a pigeon with worms not eat like crazy to put on weight. No. 3- Reading the post show the pigeon was thin, showed no desire to eat, eyes closing, with greenish and mushy droppings. The picture shown of the bird shows a bird that is not far from death which turned out to happen, unfortunately. Yes these are strong statements based on experience not guessing. I am curious as to why you would want to attack me when all the symptoms show signs of coccidiosis and amoxicillin 2.5 pills are a general antiobiotic that may very well have saved this pigeons life. My statements were not attacking anyone they were to HELP. For anyone not familiar with the symptoms of this disease the following describes it and fits this birds symptoms to a T.


Whitesnmore, amoxicillin is not a drug used for treatment of coccidiosis. Drugs used to treat this parasitic infection are drugs derived from triazine, a couple of common ones are Baycox (toltrazuril) and Appertex (clazuril), with medicines that contain amprolium such as Cocci-Cure, or with sulfonamides, a couple of common ones are Sulmet (sodium sulfamethazine), Albon (sulfadimethoxine) and Divet ( TMS-Sulfamethoxazole-Trimethoprim). The nice thing about the sulfonamides is that they give coverage for a good range of bacterial infections, as well as treat for coccidiosis.

In the back of my mind I would like to see coccidiosis eliminated as cause of illness with TPK's birds, that is why I asked him in one of my last posts if he could get his parents to agree to a fecal test, so your thinking on a cause of illness is one worth considering. My hope though is that the meds c.hert sent will effective against what is wrong and we will see improvement in his flock's condition shortly.

Karyn


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If anyone needs Baycox I have some and it can be expensive and sometimes hard to get but I have a fresh supply and it would have been nice if he got a droppings test but it was out of the question because of circumstances--that would have been so much easier but finding a vet is really hard..Yesterday I took Mr. Al one of my favorite pigeons to a Vet (I live in a large city and I have to have three so I can cross check with their diagnosis and try to figure things out) One has to trust them and I am not too good at that--maybe I will get better? Well anyway Mr. Al has a very large lump under its wing and I wanted it checked out and the Vet told me it was a tumor and I asked:Can you take an Xray of it to see the extent of it--she told me she was all back up and I had to wait until Tuesday. I asked: Can you do surgery on it to remove and the vet replied we need to see if it is squeezy or not ? Then the vet said : The pigeon is not cooing or anything and I said : :You expect this pigeon to Coo in a doctor"s office? The Vet then said: "I guess Not"...Then for that I was charged 105.00 for the visit and at least I know it is not paratyphoid and she said the droppings look normal and to me they don"t they are colored "steel gray almost white" I told her to check them anyway and I will find out on Tuesday....It"s crazy c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Update:* I cleaned everything, I gave them the meds and they are eating and drinking well.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ThePigeonKid said:


> *Update:* I cleaned everything, I gave them the meds and they are eating and drinking well.


That is great news! I would continue to follow c.herts advise  Good job!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I don't know how your weather will be there but here they are expecting a cold front and if it comes there with rain and cold try to keep your birdies as warm as possible in your circumstances-put up a wind blocker or rain blocker or whatever you can do to raise the temperature warmer. Your doing good and continue to plug along and it makes me feel good that they are eating and drinking a bit more...Your a good Daddy...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks for the advice & heads up, day after tomorrow it is going to get down below freezing.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

glad to see things are looking up for your birds ,keep up the great work


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks, & thanks again for all of you guy’s help!!!


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well! I am getting some peas ready for them now.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

That is really good to hear--keep up the good work----Now about Tuesday or Wed drop the Tylan but continue for 5 more day the doxy......and if all continues to do well ---get some money together if you can and buy some probiotics and maybe the people in this forum might have some very good ideas about this---even natural ones but don't use no sugar or milk products...Foys has a good probiotic for pigeons and they can help you two but you need 3 or 4 days for shipping plus costs---I hope they continue to do well--and your doing great as well as well loved in this forum by lots of people..c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Is this the right product? Vita King's Pro Combo


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I don't know--maybe someone else knows something about that product or can suggest something else????c.hert


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Something more like this: http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/43-83.html

Keep up the good work,

Karyn


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Oh OK thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

even this would be good and its a little cheaper 
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/670-678.html


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Glad to hear things worked out well for you Kid. One thing to add here is if you know what you need to buy (medicines that is) maybe Jedd's pigeon supply would be closer and quicker delivery time for you ,if you compare prices that is, being they are closer to you.
Kurps


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks! 

All of the pigeons are doing well, just got done feeding them, going to clean the cages and loft now.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thats good--clean you area good and fresh food and fresh water everyday--your doing a good job and I am glad they are feeling better..c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Just a quick note: Not sure if I'm being overly concerned or not, but one of my pigeons that I brought inside seems to be sneezing.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

How much sneezing and are any others sneezing--if they continue bring one of them to the vet for a diagnosis and tell them what medicines they are on---I hope it is nothing but keep an eye on it and see if you could make arrangements with the vet to pay him maybe monthly--maybe they would--or borrow it from you Dad and do work for him--don"t know what to say---but keep us posted --and do as your doing everyday-fresh water and food and scrape and scrape and try to keep your loft without drafts and warmer and especially dry---Good Job---c.hert If you can get one bird with a fecal and exam from the vet---you can possibly judge on all---c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, you can take a little from each one, mix it up, and bring it in for a fecal. Don't take it from just one bird. Try to get the funkiest ones.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

ThePigeonKid, the Doxycycline and Tylosin you have been treating your birds with are an excellent combination for many infections, one of the most mentioned ones is respiratory infections. The important thing is to make sure that every bird is consuming a good amount of the medicated water. 

I did some calculations and you want to make sure that they are consuming at least three teaspoons a day of the water (15ml). With 20% Doxycycline (200mg pure med/per gram, -+ 5gm = 1 teaspoon) this works out to 1mg of pure medicine in each 3.75ml of water (1 gal=3750ml), I did not calculate for the Tylosin, as I c.herts did not mention its strength. 

If you feel at all unsure with this sneezing one how much he has been drinking, please supplement with an eyedropper or syringe his medicine. Hopefully it's nothing but, the sneezing is something to keep an eye on, please keep us informed.

If he is still sneezing or seems worse tomorrow, if you have some of the Doxycycline/Tylosin left, I will help you make up a smaller more concentrated amount to give him orally.

Karyn


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Just one thought to add, If the bird is sneezing after he drinks that is normal as the medicines sometimes makes them sneeze.Good Luck.
Kurps


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

PK, I'm so happy to hear your pigeons are doing better. C. Hert, thank you for helping with meds--you rock. 

-Cathy


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Update:* She stopped sneezing for now. I'll continue to monitor her, of course. Thanks!


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Update:* I had to bring one more pigeons inside, it is snowing and still coming down.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds good, thanks for the update.

Karyn


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

glad to hear that all is still going well as thats what counts when treating your flock .. when pigeons are actually showing signs of illness then you know things arent going good as it takes alot for them to show that they are in that state of failure,, keep up on your observations that is the most important part of pigein keeping


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are still doing well.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks wonderful keep plugging...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

That's what we like to hear!

Karyn


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well. I got a heater for the loft today. I am so very thankful because it is 10 degrees out there right now!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

10 degrees--whew! A heater is a good idea in that kind of cold. I've lived my whole life in CA and have never experienced cold like that. I'm sure your pigeons are grateful for the heater. And I'm so glad they're feeling better.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm thinking your bird may have paratyphoid. It has many faces.Sometimes it grounds a bird for a short time and goes away. Sometimes birds that won't eat will eat raw sunflower seeds and raw broken unroasted peanuts. Closing eyes is often a sign of dehydration. Sometimes we humans don't eat or drink and just rest. That maybe what this bird needs. A good heating pad, fresh room temperature water, good food, grit, a dish of dirt and some charcoaled wood, not burnrd lumber, or the stuff from a fish tank or grill. Romaine is good too.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

The pigeons did not eat much of their food from yesterday.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

ThePigeonKid said:


> The pigeons did not eat much of their food from yesterday.


Outside of them not eating much yesterday, by the way, when you say "them" do you mean all of them or just a few particular birds, how are they acting in general? How do the droppings look and can you post a few photos of them? I may have missed it somewhere, but exactly how many birds do you have?

Karyn


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Outside of them not eating much yesterday, by the way, when you say "them" do you mean all of them or just a few particular birds, how are they acting in general? How do the droppings look and can you post a few photos of them? I may have missed it somewhere, but exactly how many birds do you have?
> 
> Karyn


I have 32 pigeons in all but I have 6 of those inside. I mean all of the outside ones didn't eat much. They seem to be acting normal but they are not cooing as much they were. I will have to post a pic later as I need to get back to my school work. It is hard to focus on it when I am concerned about them.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

ThePigeonKid said:


> I have 32 pigeons in all but I have 6 of those inside. I mean all of the outside ones didn't eat much. They seem to be acting normal but they are not cooing as much they were. I will have to post a pic later as I need to get back to my school work. It is hard to focus on it when I am concerned about them.


Well, I know with my birds there are days that they don't seem to eat as much as on others, so after just one day, I would not be too concerned with this, plus as you say they are mostly acting normal. Sometimes when there is sickness in the loft we can read too much into minor occurrences, but you know your birds best and it is something to keep an eye on. I know I asked how are they acting, but also, how are they looking, are they all looking OK and no one else is looking a little ill or under the weather?

If you read this before taking the photos, since you say all of them and not just a few birds did not eat as normal, why don't we hold off another day or so on taking photos and see if you feel they are eating as normal tomorrow and take it from there.

Karyn


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Its been really cold in Ohio I believe and when birds are are conserving their energy by not extending themselves too much--they puff up --to keep their feathers full of warm body air and less ambitious unless they are starving and I know with you thats not the case. What is the temperature off your loft and is your water not frozen and what kind of heater did you get and are the birds on a good probiotic at this time. Whats happening with the six that are inside what are they up too. keep us informed-. I am like you and think of my birds all the time and worry when things don't seem right but sometimes they just don't eat as much as other times and they need recuperating time too but I am worried about the cold right now so what temp is it there and is it damp and snowing and windy///// or nice???? c.hert..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Need to go to work now--have a part-time job to make ends meet--but keep us posted on your pigeons...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Well, I know with my birds there are days that they don't seem to eat as much as on others, so after just one day, I would not be too concerned with this, plus as you say they are mostly acting normal. Sometimes when there is sickness in the loft we can read too much into minor occurrences, but you know your birds best and it is something to keep an eye on. I know I asked how are they acting, but also, how are they looking, are they all looking OK and no one else is looking a little ill or under the weather?
> 
> If you read this before taking the photos, since you say all of them and not just a few birds did not eat as normal, why don't we hold off another day or so on taking photos and see if you feel they are eating as normal tomorrow and take it from there.
> 
> Karyn


They are underweight, but they did gain little in the last week, though not that much. Here are some pics of them:







































c.hert said:


> Its been really cold in Ohio I believe and when birds are are conserving their energy by not extending themselves too much--they puff up --to keep their feathers full of warm body air and less ambitious unless they are starving and I know with you thats not the case. What is the temperature off your loft and is your water not frozen and what kind of heater did you get and are the birds on a good probiotic at this time. Whats happening with the six that are inside what are they up too. keep us informed-. I am like you and think of my birds all the time and worry when things don't seem right but sometimes they just don't eat as much as other times and they need recuperating time too but I am worried about the cold right now so what temp is it there and is it damp and snowing and windy///// or nice???? c.hert..


The water is not frozen. I do not know what the temp is in the loft, but it is a lot warmer than outside. Dad gets paid on Thursday and we will get the probiotic then. 

The heater is an _Ultra Heat Portable Heater Fan._

It is 33 degrees outside, there is some snow on the ground but the loft is warm and is not damp.

Thanks for all of the help.

ThePigeonKid


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

ThePigeonKid said:


> They are underweight, but they did gain little in the last week, though not that much. Here are some pics of them:
> 
> ThePigeonKid


When you say they are underweight, what are you going by, do you have a history of their weights to refer to, or are you going by just how they feel in your hands? If you are weighing them on a regular basis, what are their weights like in precise numbers? Do you feel they have been "underweight" for a while, or do you connect it to when the sickness started in your loft? What do you feed your birds, how much and how often?

Thanks for the photos, you have some nice looking birds. Nothing is jumping out at me from the photos, the Frills look a little fluffed, but it's cold and I would take this as the reason, if they are not showing other signs. The thing is, since you have had a bird die of an unknown cause and you have 6 others inside which you are treating for perhaps the same illness, you are quite right to be very observant right now for any changes in behavior, even small ones, but at the same time, you don't want to be too alarmist.

I still think it may be worthwhile having a fecal test done, I know you mentioned before budget wise things are tight at home, as many homes are right now, but see if your parents are still willing to help you with this. As I said before, this is not an expensive test and since we don't know what is wrong with your birds, a fecal test would help in narrowing things down.

I think what may be best, if they agree, is to do a group/loft test, where you gather a bit of the freshest droppings from a great many of the birds from the loft and mix them together. You stand a greater chance of picking up something in the test this way instead of testing a single bird's dropping.

Karyn


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The pigeons look okay--pretty birds--I wish you could take a picture of the loft so I can see the set up because if it is too small you still need venelation within and check the heaters temperature to make sure they are comfortable but not too hot or a real drastic change from night heat to daytime--they have about (might be wrong here) about 8 degrees warmer than we to start with---how are the birds inside your house doing---Glad you sent some pictures that was nice--probiotics will help with their droppings too.
Glad Dobato is keeping up with this and suggesting and helping too...c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

Dobato said:


> I still think it may be worthwhile having a fecal test done, I know you mentioned before budget wise things are tight at home, as many homes are right now, but see if your parents are still willing to help you with this. As I said before, this is not an expensive test and since we don't know what is wrong with your birds, a fecal test would help in narrowing things down.


The pigeons did not eat for four days, but now they have started eating again. 

We do not have the money to have a fecal test done at the moment, because we had an electrical fire on Tuesday night. Our 60 amp service burned up, but thank God a water pipe burned out and the water sprayed out the fire before the whole house burned down. 

We have got the electrical service fixed and connected again.  A matter of fact, we have 200 amp service now (I think that is what Dad said).

There are some pics of the damage in the basement in my 2010 album.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You did not post and I was getting a little worried about you. That fire in the electrical box looks terrible and I am so glad your house did not burn down---you and your family are very lucky that it went out when it did...Glad your birds are eating better and doing okay...Glad your okay....c.hert


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

ThePigeonKid, I am sorry to hear about the electrical fire, glad no one was injured. I am also glad you posted, as I was a little concerned myself when you didn't post for a while.

Happy to hear things are getting back to normal with your birds, please keep us informed.

Karyn


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Your family has had more than its share of trials! I'm relieved to hear you are safe. It could have been much worse. Glad your birds are doing better, too.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

All of the pigeons are doing well.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for keeping us updated, good to hear.

Karyn


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Very scary stuff there, PK. I'm so glad you, your family, and the birds are all OK. That fire could have been devastating.

Terry


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