# Birds dropping dead



## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Hi

I just finished a week of individual treatment on 17 birds for worms and cocc. with pancur and a cocci drug..I'll have to look up the name. When I went to the pen yesterday, there was no cooing, no fightin, no eating. This morning my fav. bird a large make capuchine was dead and both my show indian fantails are on deaths door. The rest look lethargic. These birds all cost a pretty penny and I don't know what is happening! There are normal droppings, bright eyes,no hard crops but they are weak and have trouble getting around. I'm hoping it's not due to the drugs the vet gave me. Any ideas? They were healthy and breeding until I decided to treat them.
I had had a fecal float done which had shown up pos for cooci and worms so the vet said dose them all. Any ideas to help save a few of them?
Jennifer


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Jennifer,

I'm so sorry to hear about the birds. My heart goes out to you!

How old are the birds? Is it possible the dose was too strong for them? Are they eating now and drinking well? What drug was used for the cocci?..sorry about the questions..

Isolate them in an intensive care environment so you can keep a close eye on them and they should have limited activity.

I would first get them on pro-biotics to stimulate the growth of good gut bacteria and up their absorption of nutrients. Get them on a pigeon multi-vitamin mineral, and dose strictly by instructions.

If their stomachs are not upset I would clean and purify their blood with a garlic capsule each per day. it will also help reabilitate their immune system.
(Now Brand -soft gel) 

Make sure they are eating and drinking.

I don't use drugs much, except for prevention before breeding season(one for cocci,canker and worms), and it has Amprolium, Ronidazole, and Oxybendazole for ingredients.

Treesa


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Jennifer,

I can't speak as to an interaction between the two drugs, but there is a possibility of this being an overdose of Panacur. This webpage tells some of the story although it's with respect to reptiles:

http://www.geocities.com/tort_vet/medicalmisinformation.htm

I do not know at this point as to whether there is an antidote, but will try to find something. The name for Panacur is fenbendazole. What was the concentration of the drug and how was it given?

Pidgey


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Sorry to hear of deaths.

The use of drugs is a dangerous undertaking, sounds like a overdose situation.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Jennifer,

If it was an overdose of the Panacur, the damage is done, but it's up to the individual birds as to whether they live or die. Too much of the drug can kill many of the cells in the bone marrow and some in the small intestine. Anemia and other blood problems are the result. I'd keep them as warm and comfortable as possible and in such a way that they cannot exercise. 

Can't stress enough that this is possible but not definite. This is a case for the vet to review, and fast. Keep us posted if possible.

Best of luck with the others,

Pidgey


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Thanks everyone
The ones that are the sickest are the heavier ones that were given a larger dose. The male capuchine and fantails were heavier. I think an overdose is the prob. The smaller owls are eating a bit and drinking, and I made sure everyone drank tonight. The fantails look awful though, I forced them 3 times to drink. How can I get them to eat? I doubt they will make it till morning. I am so mad at my vet because I questioned him and he said it was very safe. I suppose these things happen though. I'll go out later and give pro biotics and pic up the garlic. Anymore suggestions on force feeding?
PS..no canker in throat..just lethargic. I actually didn't due the full week because I noticed they were off, so maybe that will save a few.
The strange thing is I have 2 modena squakers and it didn't bother them one bit..They are acting fine.
Thanks again everyone.
Jennifer



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Sorry to hear of deaths.
> 
> The use of drugs is a dangerous undertaking, sounds like a overdose situation.


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

PS

I just found a website that said the dose was .5 mgl for 3 days for racing pigeons. My vet had me give them .6 mg or .7 mg TWICE a day for a week ( which I didn't do) Now I feel awful..My poor birds..Oh well they are quiet and warm in the loft, the sick ones are together in a large crate covered with towels. I just wish they would eat.
Jen



Pidgey said:


> Jennifer,
> 
> If it was an overdose of the Panacur, the damage is done, but it's up to the individual birds as to whether they live or die. Too much of the drug can kill many of the cells in the bone marrow and some in the small intestine. Anemia and other blood problems are the result. I'd keep them as warm and comfortable as possible and in such a way that they cannot exercise.
> 
> ...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Jennifer,

I'm sorry to learn of your problem with your beautiful birds. I wouldn't worry about getting them to eat right now .. I think fluids and warmth are more important. Granted, they do need to eat, but right now they need to use what strength they have to try to pass the drug through their system .. warmth and fluids will help with this.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jennifer,

What was the strength of the Panacur that was given .. ie. mg per cc/ml?

Terry


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Try some brewers yeast tablets. And cod liver oil. And you can use catheter to force feed them the syringe should be at a drug store. You can use chick starter with water added to make it soupy The give then about 30 cc. That will give them some kind of food in the crop. Watch to see if they keep it down. hope they make it.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Jennifer, so sorry again, and hope your birds recover.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Jennifer, 

I'm very sorry to hear about your pigeons dying I agree with the others here that a possible panacur overdose might have been the problem. Is your vet familiar with pigeons? I would never go back to him/her again because the dosages he gave you were wrong. Try to find an avian vet that takes and knows about pigeons in particular. It's not easy finding a good vet and I've been through my own problems with that. 

I hope your other pigeons will be ok and strong enough to overcome this.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry for your losses.
Even vets sometimes don't know everything and unfortunately they don't even bother to look things up when they are not certain of something.
You've got good advice from the other members. Don't force them to eat if they don't want to, it is more important for now to get in as much fluids as possible to flush out the excess of the drug.
Some birds are more susceptible than others to toxins
I also almost lost a pigeon once due to Panacur. He was ok in 4 days, with warmth, fluids, garlic.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jennifer,

I am praying for you and your beautiful little survivors, that they will come thru this. It is after all, now up to God, who created them, to flush their bodies of this kind of poisening "overdosing" and to lay down healing/regrowing new cells, and your love and supportive care is crucial now.

If the drugs are still in the system, including liver and kidneys, you may want to try milk thistle seeds, that you crush up with each dose(as you use them), and place in with their seed (just a pinch), or when tubbing. Hopefully they will start eating again on their own soon, as they don't need to be further stressed with tube feeding.

Treesa


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## aldante (May 6, 2005)

Well
I lost my most beautiful bird last night. My red saddled Indian Fantail hen. I never even got to have a baby from her. The good news is the male is still alive. I syringed quite abit of water with pro biotics and a bit of baby bird mixture into them during intervals last night. I'm hoping at least the male will make it. He seems a little more aware today. Thanks again for all your great help.
Jen


Trees Gray said:


> Jennifer,
> 
> I am praying for you and your beautiful little survivors, that they will come thru this. It is after all, now up to God, who created them, to flush their bodies of this kind of poisening "overdosing" and to lay down healing/regrowing new cells, and your love and supportive care is crucial now.
> 
> ...


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi,
I just read this thread about your poor birds. I'm so sorry. I just consulted my pigeon formulary and here is what it says for Panacur (fenbendazole): Usual dose is 25-50mg/kg orally once a day for 3 days. Fenbendazole is usually dispensed in a liquid that is 100mg/ml. 

That means a 350g bird (I have no idea how much your birds weigh) could receive a range of 0.1 - 0.2ml of fenbendazole once a day for 3 days. Fenbendazole has a pretty wide safety margin in mammals, but I am not so sure in birds. This formulary was written by one of the top avian veterinarians in the country and I consult it for all pigeons that I medicate. 

I am not sure what you mean by "mgl" in your post. Do you mean "ml" or milliliters? Or milligrams? 

Hope this helps. 

Laura


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Sorry About Your Birds*

I feel for you. Lossing the Indain fantail red saddle. Last winter, took my yellow saddle. Hope you can find a mate for him. If I lived closer I Be able to share breed with you. Sometimes measurements can be so hard to figure. Med combos too.


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