# Treatment for unknown poison & oily substance covering feathers



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I have a young pigeon with me that I picked up 3 days ago, and I think I am losing him. I could really use advice if anyone has experience with this? He seems covered with some sort of fuel or petroleum product- I can't place the smell but its strong enough to be there still after 3 major baths in hot water with a mild detergent. The feathers still feel oily. After the third wash, I noticed the skin looks red and burned....so I plan to stop bathing until the skin looks better.

He's been very quiet and still for the three days. I thought maybe from the pain of chemical burns on his skin & bathing. His droppings started off as diahorrea, then improved considerably for two days on Ciprofloxacin. But today (day 3) he's looked more lethargic and his droppings have become very watery....not enteritis exactly- more like a clear fluid. Not good. He's still eating and drinking on his own, but less today and I think I may need to hand feed him tomorrow.

I had some activated charcoal, so I made a slurry and syringed him some tonight. But then I came across a chapter in Harrison's `` Avian Medicine-principles and application '' textbook which recommended giving mineral or vegetable oil and antibiotics for fuel poisoning instead of activated charcoal .

http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/avmed/ampa/37.pdf

page 1031 `Avian Toxins and therapy'

So I'm not really sure if I should proceed with giving activated charcoal therapy, or whether to syringe some vegetable oil instead. And the red skin- I'm not sure about what to do for it either.

Anyway, not sure if anyone can help me but thanks for reading and for any suggestions you might have. I think he's probably on his way out but if you have any ideas to help us, I'd be really grateful to hear them.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Poor little thing... 

Have you tried washing the bird with Dawn dishwash liquid (the original formula) It is supposed to cut thru stuff like that?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thinking, maybe the stuff he's covered on might have gotten too toxic for him. I don't think the charcoal will do anything, or the mineral oil at this point. If the toxic substance has gotten into his blood and organs there is not much you can do. Supportive care and hydration. Now if he is going into kidney failure you have to be careful with the hydration also, you have to make sure the fluid you're giving is also coming out.
Sweet little guy. Hope he can recover.

Reti


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dawn dish detergent...
http://news.discovery.com/animals/dawn-detergent-oil-spills-animals.html


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

When you wash him, does the stuff that comes of look thick & rainbow colours ?
If so, could possibly be diesel fuel, that is pretty thick and akward to shift off anything and does tend to irritate/burn the skin slightly 
As skyeking & msfreebird say, Dawn (or Fairy Liquid as its called in the UK) may shift it, but it will take several washes working the feathers through your fingers well.
It will be a bit stressful for the bird, but unfortunately nessessary.
What I would try is a mix 1:1 water & Fairy, & use a spray bottle to thouroughly mist & wet the bird (less stressfull), let it soak in for a few minutes, then work it with your fingers and more warmish running water. 
Its important to get right into the feathers and try to get a lather with the soap.
The more suds you get on the feathers, the less diesel is left.
Always rinse the bird in running water (ie not in a basin) as any diesel in water will always try to adhere back to to the feathers.
If you cant do it with running water, use about 6 separate bowls to dip & rinse.
There is different types of Fairy, original would be best, however Lemon does help break down oil & grease, and theres also one with Aloe Vera which may help soothe the skin.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thank you SO much for all your advice, and for your emotional support as well. Its 5 am here and he is still alive so I will do my best for him today with the information you've passed on to me.

I am still a bit worried about bathing when the skin is so red and raw looking, but I will bath again today, hopefully with dawn if I can get it here. 

Bob, Thats was a good question about the colours in the run-off- I'm not seeing the rainbow pattern or even any discoloration of the water. Maybe its because I'm not getting the substance off and I need a better product like Dawn. I wasn't sure if its available in Australia, but I will have a look today.

Reti thanks for the advice, too, about watching out for Kidney failure and making sure liquids are coming out.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Bella, I believe its also marketed in Australia under the name of Fairy by a company called Coles (Part of the Proctor & Gamble parent group)


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks so much Bob, I'll look for it under that name as well.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I don't know if my question is relevant or helpful, but is his mouth a natural color, or does it look irritated or burned from preening or from ingesting whatever is on his feathers?

If the oily coating on his feathers is caustic, it might also burn his mouth.

If you were close to a university, perhaps someone there would have access to a gas spectrometer or spectrophotometer, and could be stimulated by curiosity to find out exactly what is on his feathers. -- Just a wild idea.

My pulmonary doctor in Germany would take a small sample (a drop or so) of blood from my earlobe, using a small pinprick and a thin glass capillary tube. The gas spectrometer was programmed to indicate saturated oxygen and carbon dioxide blood levels.

Perhaps the mineral oil helps dilute the effect of any ingested petroleum from whatever is coating his feathers. I don't know.

My wife told me a couple of days ago of a fellow (or woman) who wanted to commit suicide. They drank some methanol (which can cause blindness). To fortify himself for the ideal, he drank quantities of alcohol first. The ethanol (grain) alcohol mixed with the methanol (wood) alcohol, and he wasn't poisoned.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If you can't find Dawn, I'm happy to mail you some so you have it.


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## herbie (Jul 24, 2012)

Quazar said:


> When you wash him, does the stuff that comes of look thick & rainbow colours ?
> If so, could possibly be diesel fuel, that is pretty thick and akward to shift off anything and does tend to irritate/burn the skin slightly
> As skyeking & msfreebird say, Dawn (or Fairy Liquid as its called in the UK) may shift it, but it will take several washes working the feathers through your fingers well.
> It will be a bit stressful for the bird, but unfortunately nessessary.
> ...


Pigeon is my favorite bird of all time.If only I could be the owner of pigeon that would be the best thing ever.I'm trying to see if I could make that happen. some place in Miami they treat them like they are nothing..man I can't believe it :'(


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Larry, you have a good point there. The poor bird might have ingested also some of that stuff.

I once had a bird in a similar condition. It was brought to me covered in tar. I just couldn't get the stuff out. So I cut her feathers, all of them, as close as possible to her body. She was fine after that, only thing I had to make sure she was warm until her new feathers grew back.

Reti


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Silver Sulfadiazine is good for chemical burns on the skin. The bird should not digest it.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I just wanted to say a quick (and massive!) thank you again to you all-its been a busy day with work and also looking for the Dawn degreaser, which was a mission. I guess you'd say he's stable & he's still eating/drinking on his own. Not preening which I suppose could be good.

There's no `Dawn' in our shops after all, but I found `Fairy'- thanks heaps for the tip Bob! I will try this next.

I was reading some advice from previous threads here, where it was recommended to rub mineral oil (baby oil) into the feathers, and then use the degreaser to remove this combined emulsion. Has anyone tried that and seen it work? 

On one hand, it sounds like I could make things worse. But on the other hand, the second oil, if non toxic, may dilute the effects of the toxic oil until I can get all of it off...just in case he preens and gets it in his mouth. 

Reti that was brave & smart taking off all the feathers. How long did they take to all grow back, do you remember?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I would try without mineral oil first and see how that goes.
Some oils do not mix well, thick tarry oils & diesel being the worst (if it is diesel).
If mineral oil is added, the fairy will try & breakdown both, but it will have better success with the mineral oil, leaving most of the diesel unnafected, so process could take longer.
Once the diesel has been broken down a bit by the soap, the mineral oil may help then.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It took about 6 weeks until she was fully feathered again. 

Reti


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks again Bob and Reti for answering my questions!

The `fairy' seemed very good for bathing- there was a lot of lather. He's still drying off so I won't know until later how much of the oily substance came off. I noticed while showering him that most of the outer layer of skin has turned yellowish and is peeling off now . So this is perhaps why antibiotics are recommended- to prevent skin infection due to extensive chemical burn.

He's still going! I guess now I will just keep up the bathing every couple of days and hope that the toxins can be purged. Overall he seems stable- not improved, but not worse either. 

I really appreciate your support, thanks guys


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Did the Fairy lather well right away, or after actually working it in to the feathers?
If the suds appeared almost right away, it would suggest to me that it wasnt breaking down the substance 
Normally it wont lather much while it is breaking down the oil as the oil itself prevents this, so if the lathering happened while massaging it in then that is a good sign.
If he does seem even slightly better tomorrow, I would bathe him again, sooner rather than later. Even after oil has been broken down any residue can reconstitute itself as the particles tend to behave like a magnet and attract back each other. I know it may be stressful for him, but in the long run it will be quicker and probably require less washes.
The yellowish colour of the skin does sound like it could be diesel. Prolonged human contact with it can cause a "jaundaced" stain on the skin.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Quazar said:


> If he does seem even slightly better tomorrow, I would bathe him again, sooner rather than later. Even after oil has been broken down any residue can reconstitute itself as the particles tend to behave like a magnet and attract back each other. I know it may be stressful for him, but in the long run it will be quicker and probably require less washes.


Thanks Bob, ok I'll keep trying with the Fairy. Sorry I don't have an update yet regarding how well this last shower went. He's still drying off in a heated room, and he doesn't look very well.

I haven't been so happy with his breathing -its not awful and he not panting open mouthed, but its more laboured than is usual for a pigeon. I have put him on doxycycline instead Cipro in case of respiratory infection/pneunomia. I believe these two can be used together, but I didn't want to overload his body with too many more chemicals, so I'm being a bit conservative.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I understand your concerns, and best to take it at a pace you are happier with as you are there while we can only really guess.
Just watch the amount of heat while hes drying off. The other thing about oil & grease is it also stops the skin from breathing by clogging up the pores, (thats partly what causes the discolouration) while this wont affect his breathing directly, it may well make him feel more overheated so keep a close eye on him in that respect.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I wanted to show you the latest pictures after the shower with Fairy detergent: 

Note the patches of yellow skin peeling off under the wings , and the yellow flaking off the skin on the feet. On the positive side, you see a bit of purple and green around his neck finally, and the feathers around his head don't look as bad:


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

And some more:


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

He sat in front of a heater most of the day sleeping, occasionally eating and drinking., Right after the shower, he sat in a squat position shivering with his eyes tightly closed and breathing deeply. The shower takes a lot out of him...he looks so bad afterwards, like he's in pain and could die. Its really that bad! So I gave him the option of sitting in front of a heater on low, and that's where he settled for the day. He is drinking water, so the direct heat seems ok.

It took a few hours for his breathing to go back to normal, but the doxycycline may have helped.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Is there any way you can get silvadene ointment. It is excellent for wounds and burns and heals in no time, plus it's soothing. I use it on pretty much anything, wounds, burns on myself, the birds and the cats. It is not toxic and you can cover every burned spot you see on his body. Plus the ointment might clean some of the goo he is having on his feathers.

Reti


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Reti,

Antibiotic creams are hard to get here in Australia. There are none that you can buy over the counter. If silvadene is available in Australia, it would be via prescription only from a doctor (ie $100 consultation fee just to find out). The money and time spent waiting at a doctors office are not something I have at the moment, as its been a really tough year fiancially.

I have been wondering about whether there is soem home remedy that can be used to make sulfa antibiotic liquid into a paste that can be applied externally though. My sulfa antibiotics come in liquid form, but I also have soem sulfa-trim tablets, which could be crushed and made into a paste.

Not sure what to mix it with though...have you ever tried anything like that?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

His feathers certainly look a bit better, more sheen but less greasy.
I'm wondering, is it actually the skin thats peeling, or possibly something else that has dried on hard that is starting to come off ???
Vaguely rem another thread a while ago about a bird that was found beside a dumpster of a restuarant or something. Think it was covered in a mixture of cooking oils etc with similar yellow peelings on skin, - will try and have a search for it.
Not sure if this was the one I was thinking of
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/oil-covered-feral-52511.html?highlight=dumpster
As far as a paste goes, only problemis any paste will probably harden, leaving a problem of softening it to get off, however, maybe crush the tablets into a VERY fine powder & mix with some antiseptic cream (the liquid may make the cream too runny to stay in place) ??
That normally stays moist and would come off relatively easilly afterwards (well easier than the oil !!)


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for digging up that older thread Bob! I read through it and looked at those pictures- it looked like a substance causing a yellow stain on the feathers, sort of. The yellow on my birds feet and skin looks just like skin peeling off..its all over the body, with the largest chunks of it peeling off under the wings. When I first bathed him, the yellowed peeling skin wasn't there- only raw-red skin.

And thanks for the idea about using antiseptic cream to apply sulfa antibiotic powder. Do you know of any pigeon safe antiseptics off hand?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks for digging up that older thread Bob! I read through it and looked at those pictures- it looked like a substance causing a yellow stain on the feathers, sort of. The yellow on my birds feet and skin looks just like skin peeling off..its all over the body, with the largest chunks of it peeling off under the wings. When I first bathed him, the yellowed peeling skin wasn't there- only raw-red skin.
> 
> And thanks for the idea about using antiseptic cream to apply sulfa antibiotic powder. Do you know of any pigeon safe antiseptics off hand?


How about Honey?
http://voices.yahoo.com/medicinal-uses-honey-1853160.html
http://honeyo.com/honeyhealing.shtml
One of the veterinarians I work for uses it alot on chickens.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How about aloe ointment, can you find that without prescription?
Anything honey based is good also.

Reti


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Reti said:


> How about aloe ointment, can you find that without prescription?
> Anything honey based is good also.
> 
> Reti


Isn't aloe toxic 'if ingested'?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Waynette!

I was wondering about honey, except coating a pigeon in honey sounded messy and like it would attract ants (I live in a climate where insects are always a problem). Though it would be great if I could come up with some kind of base- like Bob's antisepctic idea- that I knew for certain was non toxic...maybe mix some honey into it as well as the antibiotic.

I wonder if Aloe is toxic? I hope not- there is an elderly bird carer I met in my suburb once who told me not to use antibiotics on sick pigeons, but to use aloe vera instead (but she also mentioned she never saves any of her rescues). She's the one who told me the only treatment for coccidia was 8 weeks of expensive injections into the breast muscle. (!)

She's one of the reasons I am very skeptical of Australian bird carers- they have no real training, and there's no accountability for being especially misinformed, like she was!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Update: I just wanted to say he's still alive, and thank you SO much for your support and ideas. Yesterday he started to move around a bit for the first time instead of sitting still att day with his eyes tightly shut. He even started to preen a little bit, which worries me because there's still a bit of oil on him. The doxycycline seems to have treated his breathing issues and he's breathing normally now.

I'm going to bath him again today.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Msfreebird said:


> Isn't aloe toxic 'if ingested'?



I don't think so. My cat ate my aloe plant and was fine. Not sure about pigeons but we can always check it out first.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Bella_F said:


> Update: I just wanted to say he's still alive, and thank you SO much for your support and ideas. Yesterday he started to move around a bit for the first time instead of sitting still att day with his eyes tightly shut. He even started to preen a little bit, which worries me because there's still a bit of oil on him. The doxycycline seems to have treated his breathing issues and he's breathing normally now.
> 
> I'm going to bath him again today.


That is wonderful news. Hope this little guy continues improving.
You're doing a fantastic job with him 

Reti


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## Dove Lady (Apr 15, 2011)

Hot water is a bad choice.. to be honest warm-lukewarm is best. lukewarm-cool rinces best. 
I usually get out a hair dryer, with defuser and set it up nearby on warm/low speed. Without a diffuser, set up if further away as to just create warmth and drying. Squeeze the water out of the feathers after bathing (no rough towel drying for sore skin).

Petrolium will cause redness.. cool baths and warm drying will help. Add salt to the water to harden it and making the soap/rince work better

Preening is important. If they are not caring for themselves that is a bad sign... I judge my sick birds level of sickness on self care.NO preening (especially after a bath) makes them a level 7 out of 10 immediately.

Aloe is great and safe... add it in the drinking water to sooth stomaches and intestines. Also adding powdered garlic can help too. Also add it to the rince water... it will sooth the skin.

Hope that helps!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Bella, how are things going with this one ?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Bob! Thanks for asking. She's doing very well now, thanks so much for your support and help during the worst of it.

The bathing was extremely hard on her while the skin was burned; every time I though she was going to die afterwards because she would crouch right down with eyes shut, shake for hours and became immobile-it was scary. So I only bathed every three days or so to give the skin a chance to heal. 

When the burned skin looked to be flaked off and pink rather than bright red, I bathed every day, and put her in flight aviary with some others ready for soft release. She sun bathed a lot and the UV light seems to have helped break down whatever was on her feathers as well. Her flying is good. Apart from losing the feathers under the wings and chin, she seems to be doing fine.

Thanks so much for helping me track down the right detergent for this too- it was extremely good!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is wonderful news.
You did an amazing job with her

Reti


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thank you Reti! You were a great help, I appreciate it heaps


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

So glad shes doing well, Youve done a grand job Bella.


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