# Winter breeding is causing me to have high blood pressure



## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

I guess its just the timing of their ages but alot of my birds are getting ready to breed I can tell from their behavior , its quite obvious. Its getting down to the freezing point at night here. It usually never gets below the single digits in the winter and the normal 'dead of winter' temps here are between 15-40 degrees. My blood pressure is already rising. I am picturing babies jumping out of the nest being little frozen birdsicles on the loft floor or parents not sitting on their babies ( equals more birdsicles ) This is the first clutch for basically ALL THE PAIRS ( 5 pairs ) Oy vey. Im putting up two tarps on the aviary for wind cover, the loft interior is pretty much as good as it gets so i guess theres nothing else I can do......


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You birds will be just fine at those temps, and I doubt you will have any birdsicles. Now if you lived in Minnesota at 30 below 0 you could have cause for alarm. I had babies last winter when it was 12 below with no problems.
Dave


----------



## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

'phew. thanks for the info. I am very. glad to hear that. I know the adults are pretty cold tolerant, hopefully they'll be good parents on their first time around.


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Depends on the parents.........Our frillbacks sit tight until the babies are about a week old. At this time they don't yet have feathers but they don't sit as tightly on them. If they would sit another week or at least a few days they would be fine, but we have lost babies at this one week mark so no more winter breeding for us. Switch out to fake eggs if it doesn't work, as this is less heatache but your birds may indeed be good parents.


----------



## Dragonboy (Mar 18, 2013)

I have one right now in my new unheated building. It is a frillback baby, looks like it will be solid white. I have been on pins and needles since it hatched especially when it dropped to 27 a couple days ago. 
This is my first frillback baby and it seems like it is growing so slow compared to the rate at which my starling breeds or capuchines grow. No more fall/winter frillback babies for me til spring. 

I do have 3 pair of capuchines on eggs but they are in the house where it is still 65 degrees on average.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't let them breed in the winter, not if this is their first time. Sometimes it takes time for them to learn how to be good parents, and this is not the time of year to do that.


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Woodnative said:


> Depends on the parents.........Our frillbacks sit tight until the babies are about a week old. At this time they don't yet have feathers but they don't sit as tightly on them. If they would sit another week or at least a few days they would be fine, but we have lost babies at this one week mark so no more winter breeding for us. Switch out to fake eggs if it doesn't work, as this is less heatache but your birds may indeed be good parents.


ITS not that the Birds do not sit the young. It is that when the young are around 5 days old and more they are getting to big for the parents to be able to cover them good. When they are in pin feathers they are at a stage where severe cold can kill them. After about 8 to 10 days they have enough bloom in there feathers to protect them more. Closing up the loft where direct cold is reduced helps.. Many many people start pairing there birds right at and just after thanksgiving. This makes it where they can be banding young birds by Jan 1st. But a plan needs put in place and severe areas pair can be held off until feb So young are born in march.


----------



## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

wouldn't you want to put fake eggs under them till closser to the first of next year, so you can band them as young birds for show of racing . if you band them now they will be old birds at one month old


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Wow! None of you guys get empty eggs! I'm lucky...phew. No breeding tensions.
In dec and jan,almost all eggs turn out to be empty in my loft. No sun,temps drop and eggs aren't fertilized. 10% of eggs do hatch though but squabs get the freeze and sometimes die even after artificial heat. So for me its no to breeding (and headache) in dec and jan,winters are killers,cuz.

Winters+stress from squab raising. Don't your birds get affected. Sorry
Maybe letting them raise one squab at a time helps the squab with feed and warmth from parents as hen at night/cock in day can cover up one squab totally and it puts less stress on parents.


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

How cold does it get in India? I close my loft and put heat in for when it gets real cold. I feed 19% protein pellets and keep corn in the feeder all the time. Last winter I only had a couple eggs not hatch in my first round.
Dave

And I use Tang in the water the birds love it.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I live in northen part of the country. Just 50 miles from here snow has already fallen(in shimla). There you wont find any ceiling fans cuz nobody ever use them even in summers. So where I live the snow affects temperature greatly in dec and jan. Actually in summers its hot as heck and in winters (in dec) its really cold. In dec no sun at all and this is the time that is hard. In those days almost all eggs turn out to be clear. Rest of winter days are pleasant but nights are ofcourse cold


----------



## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

UGHHHH its been about 20 degrees Fahrenheit all this week and of course this morning one of my pairs completed laying a set of eggs ( right next to the waterer in her typical fashion lol.) THANKFULLY they are one of two pairs I have that have successfully raised chicks before and they are great parents..... I am still really worried about the eggs bc its so freezing cold. In regards to the other pairs that would be first time parents this year I have decided to heed the advice of some and use fake eggs until the spring comes, that way I am setting them up for success, not failure. The pair that currently has the eggs are sitting on them pretty well and seem very preoccupied with their impending parenthood. To be honest I am so amazed at how unfazed all my birds seem by this cold.....


----------



## Kuna (Nov 21, 2013)

*Why Fake Eggs*

When they lay eggs in the winter or if its a pair you don't want to breed together, why do you use fake eggs? Can't you just take the eggs away? When I bought some new Wests, I brought them home and found one egg laid on the floor, next day one in the nest but my mentor said to take them away since we didn't know who laid them. Since then no eggs were laid, I assumed from the cold. But why would someone use fake eggs?


----------



## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

fake eggs are a really important part of keeping pigeons. Whenever a hen lays an egg she depletes her body of vital calcium/energy/nutrients . If you take away a pigeon;s eggs, she will simply lay more, and continue to lay until she has completely exhausted her body . By replacing the real eggs with fake eggs the pigeons are tricked into thinking they are still incubating THEIR set of eggs. Therefore they will not be inclined to lay more. You got lucky with your birds not laying anymore eggs and yes if it was winter that definitely would have discouraged their breeding.... pigeons can turn themselves into little baby making factories often times at the expense of their own health. Its really important not to let them raise too many clutches a year. If you dont plan on breeding your birds then fake eggs will be vital for you in this hobby. I know they are available on websites like Foys pigeon supply etc...


----------



## Kuna (Nov 21, 2013)

Man I'm glad I asked ! I'll order some tomorrow. Thanks so much !!


----------



## Dragonboy (Mar 18, 2013)

The other aspect of fake eggs as I understand it anyway is that if you need to foster eggs from one pair to another it is easier to do it with a pair setting on plastic just slip the foster eggs under them and they go on to hatch them no problem. 
I am about to try it as I have a pair of starlings on plastic and just discovered a nest of frillback eggs in of all places an old cat box. They are about 1/3-1/2 way through the process and since they are fertile and it is a nice pair of birds to boot I am anxious to save the eggs. To leave them outside here in southeast PA in December/January would likely mean freezing to death. My starlings and capuchines are in the house in cages so they can raise the babies without an trouble. The starling breeds I have reproduce like rabbits so why not use them for pumping frillback babies in the interim.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dragonboy said:


> The other aspect of fake eggs as I understand it anyway is that if you need to foster eggs from one pair to another it is easier to do it with a pair setting on plastic just slip the foster eggs under them and they go on to hatch them no problem.
> I am about to try it as I have a pair of starlings on plastic and just discovered a nest of frillback eggs in of all places an old cat box. They are about 1/3-1/2 way through the process and since they are fertile and it is a nice pair of birds to boot I am anxious to save the eggs. To leave them outside here in southeast PA in December/January would likely mean freezing to death. My starlings and capuchines are in the house in cages so they can raise the babies without an trouble. The starling breeds I have reproduce like rabbits so why not use them for pumping frillback babies in the interim.



Well it has to be timed right so that the ones on plastic eggs have just laid their real eggs. Otherwise, if they have been on them for a while and are getting ready to discard them and start over, then they won't sit on them long enough for them to hatch. The timing is important. They would have had to lay them at approximately the same time so they will have crop milk also.


----------



## Dragonboy (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks for the tip on crop milk, I did not know that it's production was based on the whole hatch cycle I thought more like a mammal where they would be stimulated to produce it by the presence of the babies alone.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They start producing it toward the time when the eggs would hatch.


----------



## jesselevi (Nov 28, 2013)

How many clutches per year are safe for the birds?Or does it depend on the breed?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Some let them do 2, some 3. Raising babies is stressful on the parents and takes a lot out of them.


----------



## jesselevi (Nov 28, 2013)

Thank you.I ask because I bought a pair of Shakhsharli tumblers at the beginning of the month,and 8 days after I brought them home they laid eggs.I don't know how many clutches they have raised previously this year,and I don't want to stress them out.What would your advice be?


----------



## jasim786 (Oct 27, 2013)

my pigeons hatched yesterday and the squabs came out fine.

The temperature in UK are cold (not very nut freezing cold though)... my 4 other squabs have all survived the winter start and are fully covered in Hair...


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jesselevi---I probably would have given them time to adjust to their new surroundings before raising babies, but that is me. I use fake eggs to replace their own eggs, so that they will sit them for the 18 days or whatever, before they lay again. But yours are already sitting the eggs. How long have they been on them? They may be fine. I wouldn't want to raise babies in an unheated loft in the middle of winter. If the parents are lax about keeping them warm, then the babies can suffer and freeze. And as was mentioned, they may start a second nest and stop keeping them warm at like 10 days old. It's just too cold for babies to stay warm enough in a cold region in mid winter. I just wouldn't want to take the chance of putting them through that.


----------



## jesselevi (Nov 28, 2013)

Jay3--They have been on them for 11 days.I wasn't planning on breeding this year,they kinda surprised me with eggs 7-8 days after bringing them home,I just didn't have the heart to take the eggs.The loft is pretty warm,it's separate from the fly pen,fully enclosed and I have a heatlamp in there also.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well they may be fine. Just to mention, be careful with heatlamps. They can shatter and have caused fires. The ones that are designed to NOT shatter, some of those have teflon in them, which is toxic to birds. Some birds have died because of the gases they give off. 
A safer alternative is a reptile heat emitter. They give off a nice heat, but no light. And they don't shatter.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is the heat emitter I'm talking about.


----------



## jesselevi (Nov 28, 2013)

Jay3-Thanks for the great idea!I'll get one today.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They can be bought at pet shops, or online. I think usually the pet shop ones are like 40 or 60 watts. I have used them over cages, but in my loft, I have used the 250 watt, that I hang from the ceiling and direct the heat on perches. The hotter ones do get hot, so fix in a way they they cannot land on them. I buy the higher watt heaters online.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...heat-bulbs/-/exo-terra-250-watt-ceramic-bulb/


----------

