# Pigeon Beginner!



## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

I just got two pigeons to day! I have been wondering what type and breed they are. I know that they are either rollers or tumblers but I forgot which they are. I will post a picture tomorrow so someone can help me determine there age/breed/type!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

GREAT its nice to see not only new members but another person getting bit by the pigeon keeping bug. Look forward to seeing the pictures Glad you found this site Take care


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

*Any Tips?*

Any tips for a beginner at pigeon raising?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Have you built a loft? Do you intend to compete in roller or tumbler competitions?

There are many different strategies for health management from the very simple (they don't deal well with drafts and damp) to the more complex (meds to have on hand and vaccination scheduling) to the very complex aspects of breeding for specific qualities or abilities.

You might want to tell us more about your plans and aspirations to give us a better clue of how to answer your question.

Pidgey


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Welcome lmnelson,

That's a pretty broad question to answer....lol. 

First, congratulations on your new additons....we will look forward to seeing the pictures.

Second...Our members here are varied in the way they have pigeons in their lives....some keep them as house pets, some keep them in lofts or aviaries, some raise pigeons for show and racing, some do rescue and rehab and some just watch over the ferals.

If you could be more specific in what your plans are, it would be easier for our members to jump in and give you some good advice.

To start you off, here is a good thread on Pet Pigeon care....just click on the link:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10848

Again, congratulations and good luck with your new pigeons.

Linda


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

I dont plan to do any competions, just pets. I do a loft like cage for them and was just wanting some new pets!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Imnelson, and welcome to Pigeon Talk. There is a great deal of helpful information just a click away. Make yourself at home and please feel free to browse around but if you do have a question, please ask away.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, in that case, you certainly need to be very careful not to let them get out of their cage while outside in the open for quite awhile. Tumblers and rollers can get lost very easily even when they were hatched, raised and lived their entire lives in one loft with even the normal aerobatic performing that those birds do outside their loft. It's not uncommon for a hawk to swoop into a "kit" and scare them till they fly all directions and can get lost while not being far from their home. And they usually don't do well out in the wild, either.

Are you keeping them outside all the time or do you have a cage inside the house, garage or what?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

*Pictures!*

There cage is outside. Today I let them fly around in a closed room, they love it! They won't go more than feet from eachother, without flying to the other.

Below are some pictures. Anybody know which is male/female and what breed they are?

Thanks, 

Lmnelson


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tumblers, of one variety or another.

They look quite young, yet. On the brown one, is that a little tuft of feathers sticking out below his chin?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

Yes they are young but I don't know there exact age, they were still with there mother when I got them. I am not sure what it is, I think they are a type of growth on there beak? Both of them have it but the white one's is on the top.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Take a look at these growths real carefully and also look inside their beaks (open 'em up and peer in) to see if you see anything that looks like little buttons of cheddar cheese.

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

*How long should I wait?*

How long should I wait before letting them out for the first time?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Let them out where? Outside in the back yard or something like that? To some extent, that depends on your particular situation. For instance, in this neck of the woods (Oklahoma) and many other places in The States, it's hawk season. Young birds like that may sit on top of a house for hours at a time just looking around and they don't understand the danger of hawks. That said, it's easy to lose one or both in such cases, especially when they're your first birds. Once you've developed a flock that's savvy, they have more of the flock mentality which means when one takes off flying in blind panic, they all do. There's safety in numbers that way but if it's a Cooper's Hawk, even that isn't enough.

Did you take a closer look at those growths and in their beaks?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

No I haven't I will look tomorrow and reply to you. I live in Florida I wanted to let them fly around my house.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean outside the house, right?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

Beside the hawk issue how long until they know where they loft is? I was told 10 days is this correct?


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

yes i do mean outside.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's usually a process taking days. They tend to sit in their normal living quarters, look out and then fly out to the nearest perching place to the portal of their living quarters, fly back in, back out, sit and look around, back in, back out, squeak to each other, back in, back out, up to someplace higher or further away, back to their original first outdoor perching spot...

...and so on. Eventually, they build a map (just like we do) in their minds of their surroundings. These being non-homers, their typical talents this way are somewhat more limited. But after ten days of doing that, they're going to be pretty well familiar with any place they're likely to go. With tumblers and rollers, it's their tendency to fly straight up above their loft and then tumble or roll back down. Then back up and back down. They generally perform the aerobatics when they're in larger groups. That's the way I understand it, anyhow.

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

Ok, thank you for the information! How many days should they stay in there loft before I let them out for the first time?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I guess it depends on how well they've been able to see out and around your place. It'd be best if a true tumbler fancier would get on here and help you with this. Never fear, we'll find one for you so just be patient (might not happen tonight, though). I will say that it'll be a lot easier since these birds haven't really been out and about anywhere else.

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

ok, thank you!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

But I still want to know more about those "growths". I haven't seen anything like that and worry about it, frankly. I don't remember ever hearing about things like that being a natural tendency for a breed and so it just worries me. At the moment, all I can think of that's similar is canker and pox but I don't recall ever seeing a presentation quite like that. Is there any way that you could take better pictures (as sharp as possible) from the side to show those things better?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

Ok here are the picures, finally!

I wanted to give them a bath because there feathers have cocka on them, do I put in a bowl of water so they can do it by them selves or do I do it?


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

I dont see any bumps on them.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I see all kinds of bumps on the white bird. There is something on the red one, but I can't make it out as good. Hold off on giving the birds a bath for now. Let's see what EVERYONE (Pidgey  ) thinks.


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

I do see some bumps around the white ones eye, but she asked about the beak.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Whatever this is appears to be on the beak AND around the eyes. I'm thinking it's Pox, but I've never actually seen it, so can't be sure. That's why I said, don't give them a bath just yet. If it is Pox, then giving them bath water will just spread it more.
Are these the only two birds that you have?


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

ok, yes they are.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm a "he". Pidgey was (and still is) the name of my first rescue. At the time of registration here, it just seemed natural.

Anyhow, there are little bumps all over the beak (actually the "ceres") of the lighter colored one and one at least underneath the lower beak out towards the tip of the red one. As Robert pointed out, those could be scars from prior attacks but you wouldn't expect one to form on the underside of the beak like it is with the red one.

It really does look more like pox now but I'm actually not personally familiar with that as I've never seen it with my own eyes. There are many others on here who have had a lot of experience with that one. FYI, though, it's a herpesvirus that causes them to develop lesions that can get quite severe for awhile. As long as the bird survives, they usually don't cause any lasting disfigurement but they sure can look horrible when they're at their peak. If the bird gets the worst form of it (diphtheritic and internal; on the organs) it can well be life-threatening down the road.

So, let's let some others weigh in who have more experience fighting this kind of thing.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If it is pox, here's a thread to show you how bad it can get and why we're worried:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18080

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, if it were me, I'd consider giving their immune systems the best possible chance to fight this thing (whatever it is) off. That would mean removing all possible stress and if they're outside in the weather, removing them from that might help even if it meant bringing them inside. Just something to consider although others might tell us that they deal better with it in the cold than in warm. If anyone has any ideas about that, now's the time to come forward.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

So, one of the things that's probably going to help tell the tale at this point will be to measure or otherwise track the progress of those bumps over the next several days. If they're diminishing, then we're probably in great shape. If they're beginning to increase in size, then we'll know for a certainty that we've got a problem. That said, you might want to PowWow with the troops, figure out who, if anyone, is closest to you and can help provide medical support in case this thing starts really going south.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, you're in Florida. Reti's in Miami, TreesGray is in Palm Bay... where, basically, in Florida are you?

Pidgey


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

i live in melbourne 1 hour south of orlando.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, then, you're in Treesa's backyard. She works with a rehabber who does a lot of homeopathic stuff. If it's Pox, that's just about the best you can do because we don't really have a commercial pharmaceutical product that works well against viruses of that specific type. Anyhow, it seems to me that you're REAL close to Treesa so you might PM her to get acquainted. Of course, by the time you read this, I'll have already PM'ed her to get into contact with you.

Pidgey


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

It could be pox Odd for this time of year though. You can try some calimine lotion on it. Use a cotten swaps be careful near the eye. This should help dry it up Look in the birds mouth see if any placees are there aloso. If its pox Dry it up And the lotion should help. Do this for sya 5 to 7 days you will see it drying up. And you could dab the swab let it set a minute to help tack the lotion So it is applied a little thicker.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Boy, I remember when I was a little kid--I was spotted with that stuff (Calamine) pretty much from the end of school in May to the beginning of school in September (poison ivy--couldn't stay out of it). Never would have thought about it for Pox, though. Kinda' makes you wonder what's in the rash itself and if a systemic Benadryl could be used as they take it pretty well.

Just out of curiosity, Robert, are the beginning stages of Pox lesions somewhat soft like a blister, or harder like a dried scab and then proceed to being more wartlike, or what?

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Imnelson,

Beak abnormalities may be caused by diet deficiencies, trauma, bacteria, fungi, viruses and parasites. Although they can not be entirely ruled out, I think it would be safe to say the first two are perhaps the least likely to be the cause. So that leaves us with the rest to figure out which of these may be the cause. As for pox I don't have enough experience with it to make a call, perhaps others have seen it manifest as shown.

I find it interesting reading the post that they came from the same mother I would think this gives us a hint that there is some sort of pathogen involved, in the sense they are both showing similar growths.

I guess I would talk to the person you got them from to see if the mother is showing something similar to start, or any other birds where there came from for that matter.

If it where me I would start to apply colloidal silver with a cotton swab two or three times a day. I would do this for say two weeks and see if there is any improvement. If there was not, I would see what an experienced avian vet and see what he had to offer for advice and treatment.

If that failed, lastly I would try something else that has worked for me H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide). To save me some typing here is a link to where I describe how I used it and a little background http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18080&page=3&highlight=peroxide . Also for interest I thought I would post a pic of the tongue of the Amazon in question (now in perfect condition), to get a clearer picture in mind. 

I felt, and still feel, comfortable in using this in my birds mouth so I would have no qualms using it topically. The glycerine is very moisturizing and the H2O2 is effective against a multitude of bacteria, fungi and viruses, even at very small concentrations. If you do consider doing this the math and measurements are everything, as H2O2 can irritating to corrosive if used at the wrong concentrations.

Good luck with your new birds and all the best,

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Looking at the last picture in the series of three, there also looks like something is on the brown pigeons foot, so, if like the rest of the growths then
not canker, likely to be pox. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=167493&postcount=9

I would think that Treesa will be of great
help to you in terms of supportive care: nutritional, herbal, and homeopathic.
Her rehabber is very experienced in alternative therapies as well. 

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Imnelson,

I have PM'd you my phone number and that of Doreen. PLEASE give her a phone call as soon as possible and set aside some time for her to have a look at your birds. 

It is important that you keep the birds in a warm environment, and that means bringing them in, because even here in Florida it is going to be cold tonight, too cold for a possibly sick bird to be outside. Keep them in a draft free area, and make sure they have access to food and water.

Although our weather has been cooler the last few days, we have had mosquitos hanging around just days before, as I have a mosquito bite to prove it, so it could likely be Pox.

Once they are healthy and fit as a fiddle you can think about training and flying them. We have several expert racers here who can help, but your birds are not in any condition to train right now, let alone fly outside.

Give her....me....us....a call, your birds will thank you for it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

It definitely looks like pox to me though certainly at an unusual time of year. The advice given about keeping the birds warm, stress free, applying a drying agent to the lesions is right on the money. You will also need to watch to be sure the birds are eating and drinking adequately on their own. If not, you will need to assure that they are getting enough fluids and nutrition by hand and/or tube/syringe feeding them. Doing all you can do to boost the immune system is also a good thing as the birds can develop secondary problems from their weakened condition.

I have seen quite a few cases of pox .. some mild, and some quite severe. In the cases that I have had, it usually got worse, meaning additional lesions appeared and all lesions got larger, before they started to subside.

Good luck with these birds, and I do hope you will be able to get them to Treesa or her rehabber friend for a hands on opinion of what's going on.

Terry

PS: You might want to check with the person you got the birds from and ask if there are others with similar symptoms. Assuming this is avian pox, it is very, very contagious especially in a closed "society" like a loft.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi Imnelson,

I have been following this thread. My first guess regarding your problem would have been pox. But since I have only seen it in pictures and never had to deal with it first hand, I decided not to comment. 

I would however like to wish you luck. Those are beautiful little birds you have there. I feel bad that you are a first time pigeon owner and have to deal with this problem.

You do have the best of the best in your corner. I am confident with a little patience you can get this taken care of.

The Best Of Luck To You, 
Feather


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If it is pox and you dry it up It should clear up in say 30 to 35 days when it is dry it will not spread I would think. And after it crusts then it basicily continues to dry and then fall off. the old calimine lostion should help dry it up Pretty fast.


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## FLYRIGHT (Nov 7, 2006)

*Relax*

I'm new to this site but not pigeons. I'm sorry but my birds never had pox so I only know what I've read. I have also seen similar wounds on young birds from being in a loft that was to crowded and dirty. The people that have been answering you are giving you the right direction so follow it. Along with the pigeons not being stressed out you need to relax also. They look to be bright eyed and alert and happy to be with you. These look like a mix of tumbler. I noticed a slight crest on the white one. In my opinion you won't be able to fly these birds until march anyway because of age and condition. By then they should be older, happier, in flying shape and know that they live there. Not all rollers and tumblers roll and tumble so just enjoy what ever it is they decide to do. Remember that when you fly them they are at risk to predators and its hard to babysit them. With that being said I encourage you to fly them as that is what they are born to do. Ron


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## Rascar Capac (Dec 11, 2006)

I guess it's a pox. I have some experiences about this issue. Don't worry Imnelson, here is the traditional treatment in my country. All you need is a young lizard like the following picture.

Put this lizard into your pigeon's mouth alive and make sure that you pigeon swallows it well. If you're unable to find the young/small one and only get the big one, you better take the lizard's tail only. Unless the pox hasn't gone in a week, do it again one more time.

I know it's cruel but it works like a magic


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Rascar Capac,

Although this might be the conventional method of treating Pox in your country, we DO NOT recommend anyone trying this.

I have treated Pox with Thuja Oxidentalis, Allicidin (garlic), garlic itself, Reishi, and Neem oil. For treating lesions I apply topically use either Tea tree oil, Thuja Oil, if it is near the eye...use Colloidal Silver. This works within a couple of weeks without doing something so drastic and inhumane to both pigeon and lizard.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Well, different strokes for different folks - I couldn't do this because I like lizards too much.


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

ok I would like to update everyone, the pox is clearing up very fast. I was waiting to see if its immune system would do the trick and it is working! I will post a updated pic a later later. (the sores were slowly falling off)

I was wondering how does a lizard get rid of pox? And also how could his tail do the trick all by itself?

Lance


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

lmnelson said:


> ok I would like to update everyone, the pox is clearing up very fast. I was waiting to see if its immune system would do the trick and it is working! I will post a updated pic a later later. (the sores were slowly falling off)
> Lance


Hi Lance,

I'm glad to finally get an update from you. I'm glad to hear the birds are doing better. What are you giving the birds for supportive treatment? Are the lesions ACTUALLY falling off, or getting smaller?

I was wondering myself about the lizard treatment, thing, but we really DON'T want to go there, and continue that because it is quite inhumane/cruel.


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## lmnelson (Dec 7, 2006)

Yeah I agree, but I just wanted to know how it worked. They yellow shaped "figures" are literally falling off in clumps that sorta look like ear wax. I know it is discusting! Maybe it wasn't Pox?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Who knows? The tests to see what it might have been are pretty expensive. Take pictures for us. It might have been a really mild case (those do happen, you know) and if it was and it's clearing up, THAT'S FINE WITH US!!!

Anyhow, it's probably best to follow the previous advice about flying them to be safer for them. Good luck.

Pidgey


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## Rascar Capac (Dec 11, 2006)

Trees Gray n Lady Tarheel,

I'm so sorry if the conventional treatment regarding the pox sounds inhuman. I just try to give another way to cure it. This kind of treatment's adapted from our ancestors and chinese's tradition do the same way to cure the pox on human.

When your pigeon takes this small lizard or the tail of big lizard, the pox will dry in a few days. Unless it has many poxes, it will FALL OFF within a week.
I'm not quite sure the name of Imnelson pigeon's wounds is POX though. But from what i've seen it in the pictures, it can be cured fast with the treatment i told you before.

In fact, this "pox" will be gone naturally without our efforts. But when the pigeon has many poxes in its legs, heads or other areas, we should treat it seriously.


RC


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