# More pox questions.



## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

Hi all....
I'm sorry to keep pestering everyone but I am becoming more concerned with Beau (mourning dove chick).. His pox lesion in the beak is getting bigger. Almost the size of a green pea now and it is interferring with his eating. I am hand feeding Kaytee Exact but he is having problems trying to suck it in because his tongue is being displaced. His tongue can only come half way then it pokes out the side. How big does one lesion usually get? Will it rupture then dry up and fall off? or stay same size and dry then fall off. He has another little on on side of head near ear but I'm not worried about that one now since it isn't interferring with vital functions. Is there anything else I can do other than previously recommended tea tree oil, collodial silver and betadine???  He is still growing, seems strong, but not filling his crop anymore during meals.

Gina


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The pox lesion will dry and fall off eventually. I don't think it will grow anymore. But it might take 2 weeks for it to fall off.
For a more speedy recovery from the lesions you can apply corn remover solution for the drug store. Just be very, very carefull he doesn't ingest any and do not apply on healthy skin.
I apply it on such big lesions only and never around the eye area.

Reti


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry you two are going through this. I know what you mean about the tongue getting in the way of his eating. When my little Delilah had canker so bad, it pushed her little tongue to one side also. I felt so bad for her as she struggled to eat with her tongue going to the side like that. Didn't know if it would ever go back to a normal position, but thank God, it did. His will too.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

ooo reti what a good idea!! are you talking about salicylic acid, the stuff to remove warts also??


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

and gina, do you think you can tube feed her until the lesion goes down?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

altgirl35 said:


> ooo reti what a good idea!! are you talking about salicylic acid, the stuff to remove warts also??


Yes, that's what I am talking about. It cuts the recovery time in half.
Tube feeding is a good idea to keep him fed and hydrated.

Reti


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

You can use sodium bicarbonate or Lugol's solution of iodine to treat lesion. Just be careful not to spread infection to eye area when handling bird. Vitamin A is strongly recommended.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

A higher protein diet than normally used is recommended for pox birds as well.
Cleaning w/one half a cup of bleach to a gallon of water will kill the pox virus....
Nolvasan w/not.

fp


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

it would be great if you can find someone to show you how to crop feed or tube feed, once you learn it is really easy and goes pretty quick as the food goes right in the crop.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

This is a link with video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y26s98QJzFs&feature=related
I would use slightly longer silicone pipe though.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. I've seen that video. But you'd think that tube wasn't long enough. But she does it. Nice if you could get that same syringe with a longer nose on it. Don't think you can though. You'd have to use a rubber tubing I guess.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

here are the ones I use, I use the curved ones with the ball on the ends, they screw right on the end of a syringe, the tubing is a bit soft for me, this goes right in and out smoothly.
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/product/577/stainless-steel-feeding-needles.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> here are the ones I use, I use the curved ones with the ball on the ends, they screw right on the end of a syringe, the tubing is a bit soft for me, this goes right in and out smoothly.
> http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/product/577/stainless-steel-feeding-needles.htm


What sizes would you need for a baby pigeon, a couple of days old? And what size would you need for an adult? Do they go on any syringe?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link @JustBirdStuff from Vetafarm that gives guidelines for selecting a crop needle for medicating or feeding:

http://www.justbirdstuff.com/Crop-Needles-For-Handfeeding-or-Medication-p-16506.html

Here are some other sites w/crop needles:

http://cadencescience.com/productgroups/view/standard_reusable_gavage_needles

http://www.kimani.com.au/crop_needles3.html

http://www.cagenbird.com/prod_utensils.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~lmbird/lmcat.html


Luerlock syringes are the ones to use w/these stainless steel crop needles. I've found that the aquarium tubing available in pet stores also fits better
on the disposable 30 cc feeding syringes as well. Otherwise I have to place a small piece of duct tape on the tip of the disposable non-luer lock to keep
the aquarium tubing from slipping off. I have a pretty wide selection of feeding syringes/crop needles and tubing
is as quick as cutting a piece. Because of the way tubing is packed, it frequently has a curve in it when cutting
a piece.

fp


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> What sizes would you need for a baby pigeon, a couple of days old? And what size would you need for an adult? Do they go on any syringe?


you can get the whole set and use it by eye balling the size needed as some birds are bigger than others and they screw on the end of any size syringe. I really like the the round ball end and the curve makes it so much easier.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

feralpigeon said:


> Here's a link @JustBirdStuff from Vetafarm that gives guidelines for selecting a crop needle for medicating or feeding:
> 
> http://www.justbirdstuff.com/Crop-Needles-For-Handfeeding-or-Medication-p-16506.html
> 
> ...


Thank you much for the information.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Your welcome. To be clear, the tubing seems to fit better on the luerlock even though the non-luerlock is frequently recommended for use w/aquarium tubing...

fp


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> you can get the whole set and use it by eye balling the size needed as some birds are bigger than others and they screw on the end of any size syringe. I really like the the round ball end and the curve makes it so much easier.


Thanks. I agree. It would have to be curved.


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

altgirl35 said:


> and gina, do you think you can tube feed her until the lesion goes down?


I have been feeding Beau with a baggie (snip off corner, he inserts beak) I don't know how to tube feed. Watched on Youtube but not enough up close detail so I don't feel safe trying. Besides, I would have to grab his beak right on the lesion to open it and that is painful to him, isn't it?


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> it would be great if you can find someone to show you how to crop feed or tube feed, once you learn it is really easy and goes pretty quick as the food goes right in the crop.


I would love to learn. I tried calling all the rehabbers in my area on the DNR list. Only one of them answered phone/returned call. She referred me to the Vet that checked him out. Vet office called a few days ago just for follow up(probably to see if he had died) I asked about worming medication and they responded " There really isn't any type of worming meds" I know from reading hundreds of posts here that there are meds, so at this point I don't have much faith in that office anymore.

G


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

plamenh said:


> This is a link with video
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y26s98QJzFs&feature=related
> I would use slightly longer silicone pipe though.


Thanks for the link. I've seen that video. Those chicks are more than twice the size of my Beau (he's a mourning dove) so his anatomy is smaller and I'm just plain afraid of hurting/damaging him  not to mention they sit nice and still. He jerks his head and beak every which way. like trying to thread a moving needle.


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

Reti said:


> The pox lesion will dry and fall off eventually. I don't think it will grow anymore. But it might take 2 weeks for it to fall off.
> For a more speedy recovery from the lesions you can apply corn remover solution for the drug store. Just be very, very carefull he doesn't ingest any and do not apply on healthy skin.
> I apply it on such big lesions only and never around the eye area.
> 
> Reti


I can get that today  I didn't know the lesions were solid. I thought they were fluid filled. Is it ok to put it on the one near his ear if I don't get it in the ear?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes your right, you can get supplies at the pigeon supply sites online here is just one.
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/

or if you have a feed store in your area, they might have poultry dewormer one is called wazine17 it is turkey ,chicken and swine dewormer used in the water. not sure how to give it as it is used in the drinking water they drink. are you sure you want to deworm now or wait till he is a bit stronger? Iam not sure, perhaps someone can guide you better on that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't be going to that vet if they don't even know about worming. Or was that the office help that you talked to? Still. But I'd wait til he was a bit stronger before worming.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> here are the ones I use, I use the curved ones with the ball on the ends, they screw right on the end of a syringe, the tubing is a bit soft for me, this goes right in and out smoothly.
> http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/product/577/stainless-steel-feeding-needles.htm


i use the same feeding needle, 14 gauge curved


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I ordered some. Thanks.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

overwelmedd said:


> I can get that today  I didn't know the lesions were solid. I thought they were fluid filled. Is it ok to put it on the one near his ear if I don't get it in the ear?


As long as it doesn't touch any healthy tissue/skin it is ok to give.
I use tiny make-up brushes to apply it, like for eye or lip liners.

Reti


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> yes your right, you can get supplies at the pigeon supply sites online here is just one.
> http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/
> 
> or if you have a feed store in your area, they might have poultry dewormer one is called wazine17 it is turkey ,chicken and swine dewormer used in the water. not sure how to give it as it is used in the drinking water they drink. are you sure you want to deworm now or wait till he is a bit stronger? Iam not sure, perhaps someone can guide you better on that.


No, I wasn't planning on doing anything else until these problems are settled. I was just asking so I knew for future reference. He has enough going on now without adding that too.


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't be going to that vet if they don't even know about worming. Or was that the office help that you talked to? Still. But I'd wait til he was a bit stronger before worming.


It was the assistant but she had spoke with the Vet. sooooooooo, now I'm on the hunt for another Vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

overwelmedd said:


> It was the assistant but she had spoke with the Vet. sooooooooo, now I'm on the hunt for another Vet.


I hope you find a good one. It took me nearly a year to find one arond here. Then I found her from through Charis' list of avian vets for Ma. She's great though.


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

Reti said:


> As long as it doesn't touch any healthy tissue/skin it is ok to give.
> I use tiny make-up brushes to apply it, like for eye or lip liners.
> 
> Reti


Got it today I used a cotton swab. Pulled most of the cotton off one end so that it didn't soak up too much of the solution. I didn't want any drippage.


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## overwelmedd (Aug 14, 2009)

*Beau's beak *

Here is Beau's most recent picture. The lesion on his beak isn't looking any better. Just big and ugly. Side of head lesion seems stable. Haven't noticed any new growth to it since the salicylic acid treatment. New slow growing one on lower eye lid. Could the beak thing be something different? It just looks angry and nasty.


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## surya-s (Apr 14, 2007)

Poor little Beau. it must be a real hard time for u both.is he eating well now?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pox can get pretty bad. I know you're going through a really rough time right now, but it will eventually be behind you.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That looks pretty nasty, poor guy. It will go away eventually, just keep him fed and hydrated.

Reti


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