# pigeon with SEVERELY Swollen eyes



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

I found a pigeon with extremely swollen eyes, both eyes. I have never seen anything like this before. His balance is not great but much better then what i was expecting. His mouth is clear and there is yellow crusts around his beak or his eyes. His vent is clean but his poops are tiny. I am going to hand feed him some peas because it doesn't look like he can eat on his own. I am going to go to drugstore and get some antibiotic eye drops for now, but i do need some help with this one, I am going to try to get my hands on some baytril, but i have to go to work in a couple of hours. Any advice or ideas? I was thinking maybe bacterial, no wounds. I am having issues loading some of the pics i will add more asap.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Does anyone think this is a brain tumour?


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Whats the yellow crusts on beak then? :/ 
Not candida or canker?


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

What colour and consistency are his droppings?


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry, instead of feeding him peas I fed him some mushy Harrison's formula. That is what is on his beak.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

His poop is fine, just small white with a cap I can posts pics when I get home from work.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Howcome you think it might be a brain tumour? Can you feel a lump?  i'm just thinking if gently wiping his eyes with colloidal silver could help. We do that with every eye issue here. Oh the poor little thing  can he stand or walk at all normally, for a few seconds?


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

He can stand isn't walking far, I'm only thinking brain tumor because it looks like something is pushing his eyes out...he looks like somebody picked him up and squeezed him till his eyes popped  I am going to try to find some cordial silver on the way home from work. Just an FYI I live in Toronto, canada


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Hi 
The forehead area looks a bit puffy, but this could be just the breed of pigeon he is. Some do look like that. I'm scratching my head, have no idea. The Colloidal Silver is great as it works against bacteria. Just gently wiping the eyes down, if they're indeed infected, could help.
Can you take a photo of him, his whole body, and his head clearer? Also his droppings.

Check this link out.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/diseases.php

I'm still wondering if it may be canker (trich).
Has he been treated for canker before?

Is his crop emptying after the feedings?
How is his breathing? Does his tail bob up and down?
Is he ruffled or smooth, sleek?
Does he stand hunched up?
Any discharge or noises?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is another post on swollen eyelids
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/squeaker-with-swollen-eyes-54124.html


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry only saw first part. I will take a better pic tomorrow. I picked him up off the street around 2 pm today so don't have any history. Younger bird though has a couple of yellow wisps here and there. It has not made any noises though. He stands ok doesn't really walk or move though. No bobbing of the tail, breathing alright. Too soon yo give you An accurate awsnser about the crop.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

So I have had more time to watch him when he walks he turns in circles and his tail does bob a little when he stands. So maybe pmv? Pretty sure it is respitory... He is really fighting me when I feed him. I have given him some eye bright but don't know what else to do any suggestions here are some more pics ( the crusty stuff around beak is kaytees formula dried. I keep trying to upload more pics but the files keep failing maybe I have to make them smaller.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Hi Squirrel Girl 
From the photos, it looks like his eyes are very inflamed. Did you read through the posts on the link Jay3 gave you? The case sounds very similar.

In regards to respiratory disease, you'll do good with having antibiotics like Doxycycline, Tylosin/Tylan on hand. They are my first choice. However this is to treat internally. You will need to treat topically as well, because his eyes are really off.
Can you get Colloidal Silver, usually at health stores. I'd wipe his eyes down with it...or some antibiotic ointment.

PMV is more characterised by greeny snake like droppings in pools of water, inability to eat because they can't quite pick up the seed, seizures...

I'm more likely to lean towards Avian Pox, trich, some sort of viral thing.

A natural home remedy I use on infections (particularly intestinal), viruses, immunity boosting (if you don't have antibiotics, or have to wait to get them) is a concoction of Oregano Oil and Olive Oil. Take ONE drop of Oregano Oil (Nature's Answer is best) and mix with TWENTY drops of Olive Oil. From this mixture, feed the bird 3-5 drops of the mixture up to 4 times a day, for about a week.
NOTE: Since he is a young bird, I'd start with 2-3 drops of the mixture twice daily, maybe three. Watch if there's any negative reactions, changes in droppings, posture. Oregano Oil is very strong, so that's why you need to dilute it in the OIlve Oil, and why you don't give it for longer than a week or 2 without taking a break.

We've only ever had positive results with this remedy. We've been using it since January, and not one negative response yet. I got the remedy from a holistic vet.

Another thiing you can try is Liquid Kyolic. I use 4-5 drops up to four times daily - in your case, bring it down to 3 drops a couple of times a day to start with). You can mix it into the Oregano mixture for a double punch.

These 2 remedies are for INTERNAL use only. Don't put it on his eyes, they'll burn.

If this helps, you'll have to help him out with Probiotics, vitamins (B, C, A, E, K) and minerals. Apple cider vinegar or garlic clove water will be good too.

If this is Avian Pox, time will heal. He needs an immune boost to help fight whatever infectiion or virus this is. Antibiotics will not help viruses.

I hope this helps


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

squirr3lgirl said:


> I found a pigeon with extremely swollen eyes, both eyes. I have never seen anything like this before. His balance is not great but much better then what i was expecting. His mouth is clear and there is yellow crusts around his beak or his eyes. His vent is clean but his poops are tiny. I am going to hand feed him some peas because it doesn't look like he can eat on his own. I am going to go to drugstore and get some antibiotic eye drops for now, but i do need some help with this one, I am going to try to get my hands on some baytril, but i have to go to work in a couple of hours. Any advice or ideas? I was thinking maybe bacterial, no wounds. I am having issues loading some of the pics i will add more asap.


Sorry for what's happening to your bird and thanx for bringing him in.

Please keep the eyes washing with colloidal silver diluted in water. If you don't have that, have you got rose water or fresh indian red roses around you. Their FRESH petals have cleansing properties and they're boiled in water to gently cleanse the eyes without hurting them,If not available then clean the eyes regularly with boiled saline water.

From the symptoms its sounds like respiratory infection. Its sounds like Haemophilus or infectious catarrh. But when trichomads affects nasal passages severely where they usually reside they do cause watery discharge or swollen eyelids.
Does the bird make wheezing sounds? Does his throat also seem to be swollen,any mucus? Do you find any other symptoms in particular? How does his throat look?...deep reddened or do you find something else.
Please keep the bird in a well ventilated possibly fresh open air and take care of his drinking and eating.
I didn't read any other post in the thread so sorry if told/asked a thing repeatedly.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Hey everyone thanks for your responses. I did try to get collidial silver but it seems that it is backordered at all 3 of my local health food stores. I have been giving him steeped eye bright orally and topically. One eye has reduced swelling and he is able to open it. I have not tested to see if it is responsive or if he is blind. I don't have any antibiotics. I do have some left over macrobid from an old script of mine. It is used to treat bladder infections and severe sinus infections in humans, not sure if that could be but to use. His throat is pink palish pink. He tried to fly this morning. Since I have been using the eye bright I have noticed a green mucus from his badly infected eye. I'm not sure if I am helping him or prolonging his agony. It is a tough call. Does anyone think it could be psittacosis? If so I have to be more cautious but honestly from looking at pics online it seems like actual eye injuries more closely resemble the degree of swelling he has going on, it is insane poor guy looks like he was squeezed until his eyes literally popped out. Also any suggestions gor inflammation or pain treatment for him, was thinking red raspberry leaf.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

I found some colloidal silver 10ppm. Unfortunately after scouring Toronto for this bottle I dropped it and smashed it but manage to save a bit of it, straining through a Cotten cloth to make sure there were no glass shards. Nerd alert! 
Does anyone know what the oral dosage is? 
I think he needs some systemic antibiotics. Also on the brighter side I think he can see out of the open eye. He keeps turning his head to look at me and reacts to sudden movement now so that is a positive sign. Poor little one, I really hope he pulls through.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

squirr3lgirl said:


> I found some colloidal silver 10ppm. Unfortunately after scouring Toronto for this bottle I dropped it and smashed it but manage to save a bit of it, straining through a Cotten cloth to make sure there were no glass shards. Nerd alert!
> Does anyone know what the oral dosage is?
> I think he needs some systemic antibiotics. Also on the brighter side I think he can see out of the open eye. He keeps turning his head to look at me and reacts to sudden movement now so that is a positive sign. Poor little one, I really hope he pulls through.


Squirrel Girl, I'm happy to hear the little dude is showing improving! That's an awesome job. I have the 10ppm too, and I have used it orally before...I followed the dosages given on this link:
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_colloidalsilver.php

although I didn't see any improvement (we were dealing with ecoli and strep then). I did use it for one day only though. I got freaked out, not wanting to overdo it...turning silver, metal poison, just in case. People do use it however, with positive results. 

Its great that his eyesight in the opened eye is clearly alright. 

Maybe keep on alternating between the eyebright and colloidal silver wipes. Eyebright seems to be doing well!

The oregano oil/ olive oil recipe I gave you is a natural antibiotic. It's proven itself effective and safe in my birds...my birds are small English Tumblers, 200grams in weight.

Whats he drinking? You can put 1-2 tablespoon to a gallon of apple cider vinegar...

What are his droppings like today?
His appetite and drinking?
His posture, is it hunched over, head down, shivery, taiil bob?
Is he making any noises, wheezes, grunts, pops?


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Hey I will keep up with both the eye bright and silver. He is standing his posture is hunched, he attempted to fly today, not sure where he was planning on going, didn't make it far. He doesn't seem interested in drinking water when I dip his beak, and the wet Harrison's food was difficult to feed, he is on green peas now and us getting much more comfortable with hand feeding. He has pea poops now but when on the Harrison's they were well formed clean cap with white urates ( just tiny) no wheezing, clean throat. I have only heard him squeak once. He still turns in a circle when he walks but can walk straighter now that an eye is open. I will post pics if his full body and eye tomorrow. Thanks for the help, do you know anything about psittacosis, could this be that? I am keeping him separated from my other pets by keeping him in my exterior hallway with a heating pad under his crate.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Goodmorning Squirrel Girl 

How's the little one doing today?
Its cool he tried to fly, there's obviously a bit of oompf in him still.

I highly doubt its Psittacosis. Psittacosis is like a flu...birds will have sloppy droppings, greeny wet slop, there will be discharge from nostrils and eyes, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, hunched ruffled, breathing troubles, tail bobbing, non active behaviour, bad postures...
Here's a couple of links about it:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=13&A=3129&S=0

http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/psittico.htm

His inability to drink may be due to him being a youngster. We just raised a squab, and it took him forever to 'get' he has to drink. We held the cup and him, gently nudging his head close to the water so that he dipped his beak in and felt it...seemed slightly horrified by it at first, but slowly realised its good for him. And after he got it, his first sip was still a horrified quick splash before he came back for seconds. His seconds were longer drinks.
Mind you this took about 2, 3 weeks...he was already feathered by then too, so a late drinker. 

His circly, unsure walking is possibly due to his current vision and the fact he is young.

Peas make for light khaki droppings, if that is all he is eating. As long as they are dry (flickable) and compact, raisin shaped with a white cap, no watery surrounding or moist slop, its okay.

I wonder how old he is. If feeding him more of a variety of seeds would be good. Gradually as days go by...wheat, barley, milo...gradually.  If you've heard only a bit of a squeak, then maybe he's already around about a month or so old...leaving egghood behind.

You're looking after him awesome 

Is his clear throat a nice pink colour? His mouth in general, top inside of beak...feet colour, chest skin colour? No bluey, purple tinge?


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Gah! I accidently just deleted a massive post so this one will be one the quicker side, thank you for your response, the little one is improving, his better eye is almost back to normal and he has vision (yay!) his other eye is still swollen not much improvement, he has a flat yellow scab on the exposed eye and as I was gently cleaning it, it began to lift in the corner and bleed a bit. Upon inspection it appears to me that it may not be a scab but his internal eyelid. I really hope I didn't injure him further. I am using a mixture of the eyebright and silver as drops now. His actual eyeball in his bad eye is sitting low and is cloudy and unresponsive. I am concerned that he needs it removed but I don't have the means to do that. I made some calls and one vet is willing to do the procedure but it will cost $675 and I do not have the cash to that at the moment, if I tske him to wilflife they will euthanize him. He really is fighting this and I am doing everything I can to help him out. One thing I stumbled across on the web was IB, infectious bronchitis. More of a chicken thing but pigrons can get it, but still have not come across a pic of a pigron with an eye that swollen. As for food peas are the less tedious thing to feed him at the moment, he doesn't fight me when I try to feed him at the moment. I also give him 100 cc's of kaytees for extra nutrition and am giving him oral doses of eyebright mixed with a couple drops of silver. He is walking a bit straighter today and likes to keep his good eye on me now when in handling him, which I think is pretty cute. He seems much more calm now, he knows I'm trying to help. When I put him on the ground he stands pushed up against me or lies in my hand and his balance is also improving. As for his age, i am guessing 6-8 weeks max, I have only heard him squeak once but he has yellow wisps by his vent. Throat is clear and pink, looks healthy. His beak sits off at times but is usually fine. but nothing drastic, I think it is from hand feeding. Thanks for your time and feedback it is truly helpful and appreciative. I am so glad this forum exists it is an excellent support. The pic below is off his eye scab before it peeled up on the corner.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess you can ignore the first sentence of that last post


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

Hi Squirrel Girl, 
How are you both doing? 
Fantastic news! I'm smiling to hear the little dude's improving all round.

Vets are hideously expensive, I know. They're (some :/ ...in my case, most) also good at taking as much out of your wallet as possible by wanting to do whats not necessary.

Your bird's bad eye is pretty poorly, and it may well be - if its clouded like that - that he's lost vision in it.
However, I've had pigeons in the same situation, who've thrived and are thriving one-eyed. The one's who've lost an eye in fights for example...where the eye's looked much like your bird's, or completely taken out...in my experience, its best just to leave the eye alone.
Putting the bird through an operation to remove an eye wouldn't even cross my mind. It's too much of an ordeal to go through for something time will heal on its own. Birds are fragile, and its just too much on their bodies to handle. 

As long as the eye is kept clean, so as not to become infected, the bird's own body will heal itself. Injured eyes will seal over, literally seal over. The inflamed state will calm itself and the pigeon will adapt to life with one eye.

Its cute he's bonding with you! You must be his Mama in his eyes, hehe  You're feeding him a great mix, Kaytees and peas is cool. Some sunlight could be good too, lift his spirits up...my birds love the sun.

I think right now, the most important thing is keeping infection out. I'm very happy the good eye is almost back to normal and his balance is improving.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

By the way, I know what you mean by beak sitting off...hand feeding will do that. My baby Pipi  has a beak thats slightly criss-crossed now due to being handfed. We have to regularly clip it, then file the edges so as to line it up for him.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

He must be feeling better, the little bugger flew off of my patio and landed on a roof about 6 houses down. I had just turned my back for a minute. If he was able to eat on his own I would have just let him be, not the case though. The owner of the house must have thought I was a mad women when I told him my sick pigeon was on his roof, but he was really nice about it and let me carry a 12 foot ladder (ha!) through his house to retrieve the pidge who is now safe at home in his little carrier, I'm setting up my lost pigeons cage for him to recover in (it's much bigger and outdoors. So you are saying the eye will just seal up? His eyeball and everything? I didn't realize that, that is very good news if that is the case.


----------



## AlicjanPip (Jun 19, 2013)

squirr3lgirl said:


> He must be feeling better, the little bugger flew off of my patio and landed on a roof about 6 houses down. I had just turned my back for a minute. If he was able to eat on his own I would have just let him be, not the case though. The owner of the house must have thought I was a mad women when I told him my sick pigeon was on his roof, but he was really nice about it and let me carry a 12 foot ladder (ha!) through his house to retrieve the pidge who is now safe at home in his little carrier, I'm setting up my lost pigeons cage for him to recover in (it's much bigger and outdoors. So you are saying the eye will just seal up? His eyeball and everything? I didn't realize that, that is very good news if that is the case.


Hahaha, oh my gosh that must've been an adventure!  He did well to fly 6 houses. Yes, the eye will heal in time. We've had about 8 or so pigeons who've gone through losing eyes in the last 20 years.
As long as there's no infection, underlying disease, that's causing the eye problem, the bird will be okay. A lost or bodged eye will never function or look normal again, but the area will calm down. It will seal over, I don't know know how to explain it, the eye just sort of becomes dormant. The damaged parts stop having the previously inflammed, open look...like the damage gets sealed. The bird just learns to carry on one-eyed.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Be careful about letting him outside, as a bird with only one eye isn't really safe outside. They are more easily picked off by predators, as they can't see as well. And you are lucky that he didn't get to somewhere that you could not get to him. I would keep him confine while outside in the fresh air, to keep him safe.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Agreed, he was in a tiny carrier but is now in a secure large rabbit run in my deck. He needs the in and breeze, his bad eye is far less swollen and the colour is returning.  he won't get free again until it is time to release. He hates being caged and once his eye is sealed I rally think I should introduce him to a flock...wouldn't you?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No, I wouldn't release him. With one good eye, he isn't safe outside. He can't see well enough to avoid predators.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Sold. I will keep him he is quite sweet.Today he doesn't look so great,
He is puffy and lethargic. His eyes look great, the one eye is back to normal, his bad eye is less swollen. He keeps shaking his head, but his ears are clear...any ideas.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You should treat with a canker med, and Enrofloxacyn. You are trying to treat the eye, but not whatever is causing it. Enro is a wide spectrum drug, so I would try it. Shaking the head could also be canker, which would be pretty common for a young bird going through all this.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Ok, I will place an order for some drugs, what do you recommend for canker? I haven't seen any signs other then the head shaking, no plaques or anything and and I really think that the eye was an injury. I found a scab on his shoulder which is healing up well. He is eating quite well and squeaking again. He is grooming himself and other then his morning poops ( which is all white) his day time poops are perfectly coloured and formed. Also I have brought him out of his cage (which was on the deck)and brought him in the house. It was quite windy the day before my previous post and he is doing much better. Can I get endrofloxacyn online? I'm kind of nervous to medicate because he is doing well.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Also he only shakes his head while falling asleep.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hard to know without seeing him doing it. Metronidazole is something that is good to have on hand anyway, for canker. And Enrofloxacyn is another good one to have for an antibiotic.


----------



## squirr3lgirl (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you for the advice on the meds, I agree on picking up some as they will come in handy. I named the little one Odin (after the Norse god who sacrificed one of his eyes for higher wisdom) He is doing much better. His bad eye seems to be improving. He has a yellow scab still, but it is odd. The scab appears to be his inner eyelid and he is starting to open his bottom eyelid and look with it. The eye itself isn't as cloudy as it was, maybe he has some sight. This surprised me because I thought his eye was sealing shut. I will post a pic when I get home. I am going to get some neosporin for his scab.


----------

