# Found a squeaker!



## sabina

Aias was on his way to the store today when he saw a pigeon not moving at all on the sidewalk next to some garbage bags. So he scooped him up and brought him home. When the pij first got here, he was unbalanced, tipping over, very weak-appearing, apparently dehydated. And squeaking! Aias put him on the heating pad for about a half hour, then gave him some rehydrating solution with a syringe, while the poor pij was trying to get fed from his finger! Then later Aias was able to get him to drink on his own. He gave him about 10cc of formula but we don't really have the equipment for tube feeding.

Then I got home and got to see his fuzzy head! So cute! No squeaking though since I guess he's not scared anymore. We gave him some moist puppy chow, he drank a bunch more rehydrating solution. Then we examined him--he can flap his wings and walk fine, no more tipping or balance problems. No mites. But we did see a few tiny yellow spots in his throat--well the back of his throat and the side of his mouth. The poops are dark green with white, at first liquid-y, now more well-formed.

We spent some time with him cuddling and falling asleep on my chest (umm the pigeon, not Aias)--this is the first pij we've had that I can pet and cuddle! Though I suppose I shouldn't too much so he can be released later?

Anyway he have Spartrix 10mg tablets. One a day for 3 days? Oh he weighs 150g. He's about 25 days old I think judging from the baby pij pics.

Oh I have to tell you something funny. Of course Pinky has been very curious about the squeaker being here. While we were feeding the baby, Pinky flew over and LANDED ON AKIRA (THE CAT), who was minding his own business lying on the bed about 5 feet from us. Aias and I almost fell over laughing, watching Akira scrambling and falling sideways off the bed, with the most shocked look you've ever seen on a cat! I imagine it would be pretty scary having this whirring flapping thing land on you with its claws!! I'm laughing again now thinking how startled and scared he was. The poor cat was too scared to go back to the bed after that!*

Ok any and all advice welcome!

Sabina


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## TAWhatley

Another great rescue you two! I'd go with 1/2 of a Spartrix for the youngster once a day for three days.

Terry


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## sabina

Ok thanks. The pijie seems to be making a quick recovery--we put him in the cage without the top on, since Aias was still fixing it up. And he flew right out!! And now has been sitting serenely preening the last 10 minutes. And Aias was afraid he was bringing home a bird that was about to die.
We'll post pics soon...


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## Whitefeather

sabina said:


> *Aias was on his way to the store today when he saw a pigeon not moving at all on the sidewalk next to some garbage bags. So he scooped him up and brought him home.
> When the pij first got here, he was unbalanced, tipping over, very weak-appearing, apparently dehydated*.
> 
> *Aias put him on the heating pad for about a half hour, then gave him some rehydrating solution *with a syringe, while the poor pij was trying to get fed from his finger! Then later Aias was able to get him to drink on his own. He gave him about 10cc of formula but we don't really have the equipment for tube feeding.
> 
> *We gave him some moist puppy chow, he drank a bunch more rehydrating solution. Then we examined him--he can flap his wings and walk fine, no more tipping or balance problems*.
> 
> Ok any and all advice welcome!
> 
> Sabina


Great save Aias.  
Thanks to both of you Sabina for taking this sweet baby under your wings.

It sounds like he was severely dehydrated & on the verge of starvation.
By providing supplement heat, initially, rehydration then food, you gave this baby a second chance at life.  

If he's about 25 days old, he should start eating seeds on his own fairly soon.
You might want to place some seeds on a towel & let him start picking at them. You could even pick up a few with your fingers as he watches. 

Please keep us posted on how things are coming along.

Cindy


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## Skyeking

Hi Sabina,

Great rescue Aias!

Aren't they fun to cuddle and hold?

I just love them at that age, when they still have fuzzies on their head.

The only additional thing I would do is to give the youngster some probiotics. Youngsters do not start out with much good gut bacteria as it is, and since he has been under great stress (he may have next to none), he certainly could use it to replenish his good gut bacteria.

Good gut bacteria will also crowd out any bad, bacteria and allow him to digest his food better.


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## sabina

*vomiting*

We fed him maybe 20 pieces of puppy chow at 7:30pm, then another 20 or so at 11:30pm, since his crop seemed to have emptied. But this morning before I left work, I saw he had vomited the food (and probably the 1/2 tab of Spartrix we gave him after feeding). Overfeeding you think? He kept down the first feeding fine. We also gave a garlic capsule last night, but he probably threw that up too. He's been drinking water pretty well. 

We have the probiotic powder. Should we sprinkle it on the puppy chow? Maybe we can try the seeds today. Given he can fly, he should be able to eat on his own, right? We can put a drop of olive oil on the seeds so the powder will stick.


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## Maggie-NC

Sabina, congratulations on finally getting a squeaker! They are so precious at that age.

Depending on how often you feed him, the 20 pieces of soaked chow may have been too much on his tummy at one time. Put just enough in him so his crop is plump but not bulging. A baby this age probably still needs to be fed about 3 times per day. 

Also, offer him seed and water in his cage. Being able to fly doesn't necessarily mean he can eat on his own. I think he will still need to be hand fed until he gets the hang of eating. If you have a gram scale, weigh him every day to make sure he is growing. Most of the squeakers we get in at that age do need to be fed until they learn to eat well. 

Sometimes, they don't even realize they can fly until they get captured and fly in self-defense. The little pigeon we're over-wintering, Jimmy, was about that age and was so scared he flew into another room. However, he didn't fly again for several weeks because he became more secure and comfortable with us.

You can sprinkle the probiotic powder on the chow or you can get some plain yogurt and dip each piece of chow in that.

I wouldn't worry a lot about cuddling him. To me, they need a lot of love at that age.


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## jazaroo

Hi Sabina,

When I give Spartrix I usually give it in the morning a few hours before feeding, the Spartrix may have very well have been what caused the regurgitation.

Also, depending one the size of the puppy chow you are giving perhaps 20 pieces may have been a little too much at one time. If you have some dried peas around or lentils you could give a combination of both to better balance his meals until he is self-sufficient.

At this point I would provide some seed and water in dishes for him and spread a little of the seeds around so he has something to peck at. Watch how he is doing with self feeding, monitoring his droppings will give you a good indication of how well he is eating and supplement him until he is doing well by himself.

Here are few links to posts by Phil, pdpbison, on getting a squeaker to start self feeding, Phil really does have a wonderful way with these little guys.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=157380&postcount=8

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=159383&postcount=3

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=110896&postcount=17

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=85458&postcount=11

Good luck with him,

Ron


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## cooingsosweetly

*amazing little things*

i recently , well my mated pair recently made an egg, and out of it came a squeeker. it is truly a blessing to have one cling tenaciously to your sweater with his beak and climb up with the clumsy squabbie leggs....soooo cute.
thank you for taking the squeeker and for caring about and for him. I am always relieved to hear that there is yet another pigeon lover out there willing to lend or share their homes with a pigeon in need!!! congradulations!!!


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## Aias

*mr. for now...*

here is the little squeaker, i am calling him mr. for now since that is the only thing i am fairly certain off, and i am waiting for sabina to give him a name.

here he is at learning-how-to-eat school, which he boycotted:










and a couple others, that arent very good, here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/oscar/

better photos in the future, i hope.


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## Maggie-NC

Aias, he is just the cutest little fellow standing there like a little soldier, daring the outside pigeons to mess with him. That's a great idea feeding him at the window so he can see how they do it. You know, he looks full grown but that baby beak is a dead giveaway.

I thought the other 2 pictures were as good as the first. Thanks for letting us see mr.


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## Aias

thanks maggie, the lighting was bad, it is grey and overcast today so no good light so no good photos. his eyes havent changed color yet and i know you cant see it in the photos but he still has quite a few blond feathers.
oh, and of course he squeeks!  



Lady Tarheel said:


> Aias, he is just the cutest little fellow standing there like a little soldier, daring the outside pigeons to mess with him. That's a great idea feeding him at the window so he can see how they do it. You know, he looks full grown but that baby beak is a dead giveaway.
> 
> I thought the other 2 pictures were as good as the first. Thanks for letting us see mr.


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## warriec

he seem to have friends out side the window


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## Reti

He is such a darling!!!!!
I am in love again.
I love them at that stage, they think they are all grown up.

Reti


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## Aias

well it is sooo nice to see that there is enough love for him, i thought for sure that scooter had sucked everyone into his vortex  

tough competition for all new squeekers, that scooter!


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## Whitefeather

He is absolutely adorable & such a proud pij.  
LOVE your picture Aias. It's wonderful.  

Thanks so much for posting it.

Cindy


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## Pete Jasinski

What a cutie he is  He does look like a little soldier standing at attention, Maggie. Don't worry there's plenty of love and attention on this board for every pidgie in existence and Mr. is no exception  Give Mr. a big kiss and scritch for me


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## mr squeaks

Aias said:


> well it is sooo nice to see that there is enough love for him, i thought for sure that scooter had sucked everyone into his vortex
> 
> tough competition for all new squeekers, that scooter!



LOVE HAS NO BOUNDARIES, Aias...We are ALWAYS ready to add another within our hearts!

Mr. reminds me of Squeaks when I found him. Squeaks was only about 30 days old and still squeaking. BUT, when I found out how young he really was, I was absolutely shocked! He looked like a full grown pigeon! Being a racing homing pigeon accounted for his size at that age.

Yes, if anyone has wonderful ways to feed and encourage the little ones, Phil does. I don't call him Dr. Doolittle for nothin'...

Mr. is quite the handsome one! We'll be watching his progress! 

LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES!


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## Skyeking

That is one great picture Aias.

Please keep them coming.


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## Aias

*new photos of mr.*

in an effort for him to get some walking exercise i let him loose in the apt. but he is a big party pooper. he wont go to school and he wont walk around either! 










and a couple of others here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/oscar/

i dont know why these pigeons like to mess with akira but both of these do, mr. standing on Akira's food dish and pinky hanging out on top of akira's box, u can see him inside trying to sleep.


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## Reti

Great pics. They are lovely.

Reti


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## Skyeking

What a cutie pie!


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## Maggie-NC

Aias, thanks for the additional pictures. It was nice to see pinky brown looking lovely as usual. mr's eating out of the bowl just shows how curious they are - I have even had them try to peck a bar of soap....nothing like a pij foaming at the mouth.


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## sabina

Ok I finally came up with a name: introducing Cosmo Pigeon! He is such a cute sweet pigeon. This is our 3rd squeaker (the others being Simao and Pio), but he's the sweetest. (We've never had a baby baby, and I kinda hope we never do! It seems scary!) I have a feeling we only have a few days of cuddling left though before he turns into a feisty teenager.*

Oh I wanted to mention the poops. We'll have to post a pic later but they're kind of tan/brown wormy-shaped in clear liquid now. What could that be? He is getting a garlic capsule a day. I suppose if he had worms, we'd have to wait to treat anyway. Or maybe they're liquid-y from the Spartrix? Today was his last day of that.

Umm sorry I made Aias delete the pic of Pinky on Akira's hideaway box, maybe we'll put it back when the messy apt is cropped out!

Sabina


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## Victor

Welcome to the pigeon community OSCAR!


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## Maggie-NC

Sabina - love the name......maybe because that is the name of one of our pigeons  

Our Cosmo and his bride Bert sneaked a baby in on us last spring when we got all those babies in so we named him Comet.

It will be easy to remember for me. I must say though that I was getting used to mr.


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## sabina

Hi Maggie--I did a search to make sure there weren't a plethora of Cosmos out there, so I saw you had a Cosmo. Aias pointed out there's more than 1 Sabina out there, so it should be ok to have another Cosmo... 

And the name Mr is already taken in this household, that's what me and a friend call the husband here!

Sabina


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## Maggie-NC

sabina said:


> Hi Maggie--I did a search to make sure there weren't a plethora of Cosmos out there, so I saw you had a Cosmo. Aias pointed out there's more than 1 Sabina out there, so it should be ok to have another Cosmo...
> 
> Sabina



Sabina, absolutely! The more the merrier. Our Cosmo is really spooky looking - has strange-looking yellow eyes so we thought he looked "other worldly".


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## sabina

*diarrhea*

Ok good news and bad news. Good news is that he figured out what to do with seeds! He ate a whole bunch on his own. I think it had been awhile since he had been fed and he was starting to get desparate. So anyway that was exciting!

Bad news is lots of watery poos. He drinks more water than any pigeon I've seen, even before the poos got so watery.*What should we do?

Oh one more thing...name change! We were snuggling in bed, me, Aias, pij and Akira, taking a nap. And I just decided the cute pijie looked like an Oscar. And Aias likes it better (No offense Maggie!)--it seems like a better fit. So Oscar it is...

Sabina


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## Aias

ok, sabina totally cheapened the story.

what happened is the following. Sabina, the 2 cats and i were in bed taking a nap, pinky was on her perch at the foot of the bed and *oscar* was in his cage and i guess he felt left out. so much to our surprise he flew out of the cage and came and joined us on the bed!

he fell asleep on my chest and then woke up all fidgety... and then... a torrent of very watery poop was discharged all over my chest and i fled to the shower in horror!! that is the full story!


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## TAWhatley

Aias said:


> ok, sabina totally cheapened the story.
> 
> what happened is the following. Sabina, the 2 cats and i were in bed taking a nap, pinky was on her perch at the foot of the bed and *oscar* was in his cage and i guess he felt left out. so much to our surprise he flew out of the cage and came and joined us on the bed!
> 
> he fell asleep on my chest and then woke up all fidgety... and then... a torrent of very watery poop was discharged all over my chest and i fled to the shower in horror!! that is the full story!


Ooops, but totally too funny    That's a lot like holding a duck or a goose under your arm with the "strategic" part perfectly aimed at the jacket or jeans pocket that contains your cell phone!

Terry


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## pdpbison

Hi Aias, Sabina,


I myself would absolutely not let a young Pigeon eat out of the same Bowls that Cats are eating out of, even if seperated from the Cats...the residual Pasturella and other 'mouth' Bacteria from Cat saliva can reliably sicken or kill the young Bird if he eats food that Cats have gotten any saliva on.

Too, I would never feed a young Pigeon any sort of 'puppy chow' which would make me throw-up were I to eat it...almost all of these 'chows' are rancid right out of the Bag, made fome tumors, road kill, dead zoo animals and dog pound gas chamber carcases and worse, and are loaded with animal fats and hydroginated processeing to stabalize them from conspicuous post-process rotting.

This in itself also is enough to make a young Pigeon 'sick' or to give them the runs or worse.

Spartix will sometimes cause them to throw up, and, in this case, where there is no, zero, nada evidence or suggestion of Canker or of Tricomona illness, I can not see any point in obliging this Bird to be having Spartrix or any other Canker meds iposed on him and his system.

If he had 'yellow' urates, yes, sure, treat for 'Canker'...if he did not and shows no throat signs or other, there is no point in treating him for something he does not have, or have any symptoms or suggestions of having.

I posted a little mention in your other thread about him.

I would expect that if you were to feed himm like-a-Baby, even as he is learning to peck for himself, but feed him properly, and feed him wholesome foods suited to him, adding some Pro-Biotics and supplimental Digestive Enzymes, and have his sole Water for drinking and formula mixing be the "ACV-Water", he will soon be fine.

If you do not know how to feed him I would be glad to offer some information.

Probably this young Pigeon was seperated from his parents, a fledgeling who strayed too far...and, ( as others mentioned earlier in the thread, ) was starving, and possibly dehydrated.

And, the puppy chow and residue of Cat saliva is very likely making him have Bacterial and other rancid-fat animal-protean related digestive-intestinal troubles...


Good luck..!

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC

Aias, that was too funny! I can relate to how bad it was. Yesterday morning, I moved our hen ****** from her "holding" cage that we put her in to clean her regular cage. Now, this little girl thinks she is setting an egg so "holds" off the big dump. Well, she accidentally got away from me, flew to the top of another cage with her rump hanging over and "splat" - right on cream colored carpet, in 3 different places. Took me most of the morning to clean it.

Oscar is a great name. 

Try giving Oscar some ACV for a few days and be sure to weigh him each day to make sure he is gaining weight. Personally, I see no problem with feeding him some soaked dry dog/cat food as long as it is individually for him. I agree with Phil to use caution in letting him eat the cat's food.


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## sabina

Tee hee well if Aias wants to tell the whole story, it should be mentioned that the watery poo plopped onto his BARE chest, trickled down his neck and into his hair!* 

Phil--
I wrote back to you in the other thread, Oscar did have signs of canker, ie yellow spots in his mouth and throat, which are gone now. He didn't eat from the cat bowl. And we did start the ACV water, thanks for that reminder! 

Ron had posted some of your threads with tips on feeding youngsters, but luckily Oscar is eating pretty heartily on his own. We put the probiotic powder on the seeds. 

Can pigeons eat the goji berries just like that? Aias had bought some from Chinatown, and I wasn't sure if you had recommended them for making formula only or if they could be mixed in with the seeds (after cutting them into smaller pieces).

Maggie--
Cream-colored carpeting, wow, that is ambitious in a house of pigeons! I am impressed! What do you use to get the poop out?

The last time Aias weighed Oscar, he was up to 200g (from 150). But that is a good reminder, to weigh him to make sure he's eating enough on his own.

Sabina


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## xxmoxiexx

Sabina,
your birds are beautiful!! what kind of pigeons are they?? i seem to remember the thread about SIR DUCHESS a while back. and i do think he's funny looking, but only funny looking in the sexy, genius, eccentric artist kindof way!! he he he!! i didnt even think a pigeon could be all those things until i saw him!! better let him know he's catching the eyes of a whole different species, so he's got NOTHIN" to worry about in the looks department!!
i like MR., Cosmo, and Oscar, so i think he should be Mr. Oscar Cosmo, not even in that particular order. BUT, he's your baby. and that's kinda a mouthfull anyways i guess. 
keep up with the pictures!! are those pics of you and AIAS on that link?? thats a real nice bike. where's the pics of the kitty cats??


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## Aias

i havent laughed so much in a loooong time, thanks for your post xxmoxiexx !

it is really sad that sir duchess is not around to read your post and feel vindicated. i always thought he was hella sexy, in a funny looking kinda way.

i am glad that you not only appreciate pretty pigeons but pretty bikes as well! 



xxmoxiexx said:


> Sabina,
> your birds are beautiful!! what kind of pigeons are they?? i seem to remember the thread about SIR DUCHESS a while back. and i do think he's funny looking, but only funny looking in the sexy, genius, eccentric artist kindof way!! he he he!! i didnt even think a pigeon could be all those things until i saw him!! better let him know he's catching the eyes of a whole different species, so he's got NOTHIN" to worry about in the looks department!!
> i like MR., Cosmo, and Oscar, so i think he should be Mr. Oscar Cosmo, not even in that particular order. BUT, he's your baby. and that's kinda a mouthfull anyways i guess.
> keep up with the pictures!! are those pics of you and AIAS on that link?? thats a real nice bike. where's the pics of the kitty cats??


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## xxmoxiexx

where is sir duchess??
it's my boyfriend, he used to be a bike messenger.


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## sabina

moxie--
here are the 2 sir duchess threads:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19201
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17540&highlight=regal+bird

he's a helmet pigeon who lived with us for awhile then escaped, then disappeared. still no sign of him... 

pinky is a red teiger which is a type of flying flight (did i get that right??).

we just might stick with mr oscar cosmo!

sabina


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## Guest

"And, the puppy chow and residue of Cat saliva is very likely making him have Bacterial and other rancid-fat animal-protean related digestive-intestinal troubles..."


Phil, would you please provide the documentation to prove that you are correct in so far as the puppy chow is involved? Your statement belies every single rehabilitator in whose homes I have been. All of them keep a supply of Purina Puppy Chow on hand and so do I. I think it's an excellent food source for a sick bird. It has protein for tissue building. It's loaded with nutrients that are easily digestible. I never had a problem with a bird that was fed on it. True, too much protein can cause gout so the bird can't remain on it for all that long a period of time.


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## Guest

"If he had 'yellow' urates, yes, sure, treat for 'Canker'...if he did not and shows no throat signs or other, there is no point in treating him for something he does not have, or have any symptoms or suggestions of having."

Phil, 
If the bird had yellow urates, it could be canker. It could also be anything else that causes liver infection. I know that in the past you have said that in your experience, it's been canker but that doesn't have to always be the case.


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## Guest

"Spartix will sometimes cause them to throw up."

Phil, 
True but dehyrdration can do it too. They can throw up for a few days until the crop starts to work normally. If the bird is dehydrated, they can throw up from anything that goes down into the crop.


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## feralpigeon

From this thread in a View Single Post format:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=175460&postcount=4

"This isn't Fred. Fred will never post here again. There were too many personality conflicts and so in order to try to help without mucking things up, he won't post. Pigeonperson wants only to try to help birds and not get and give arguments."

I've actually read at a bird site that we shouldn't give dog and cat kibble
to birds. I do myself give them to sick birds, although it's in a higher end 
format and from a health food store.

fp


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## feralpigeon

pigeonperson, I remember Dr. Casey and Dr. Kildare and the remarkable
difference in their styles. With sincerity, pasty vent/excoriation doesn't seem to be the issue here at all.

fp


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## Skyeking

pigeonperson said:


> Of course not. We aren't doctors.


...and we aren't perfect either.

Let's cut the confrontational stuff going on..please.


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## sabina

Umm I'd just like to interject for a second...the squeaker's poops are getting better. They're finally not so watery anymore, more formed, though still that same color as before (in the pics posted in the "squeaker with diarrhea" thread in the "sick and injured pigeon" section). I am still concerned so we will call the vet on Monday, luckily we're not in a situation where we need to come up with diagnoses online.
However, until we get him to the vet--Pigeonperson, from looking at the pictures of the diarrhea in that other thread, does it look like this squeaker has something that contagious that we need to worry as you mentioned in the post regarding chlamydia?


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## Guest

Sabina,
I don't know. That's what Animal General is for. When you take in a feral, you have to assume something is wrong until you get it tested and to play it safe, the bird should be isolated. They come from terrible conditions in the city streets of New York so you can't take any chances until you find out from fecal analysis that Animal General does.
Phil is 100% correct when he spoke about the bird sharing the cat's food bowl. Cats carry Pasturella and that bacteria is a fast killer of birds, in as little as 24 hours. We carry it in our mouths too.


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## mr squeaks

pigeonperson said:


> Sabina,
> I don't know. That's what Animal General is for. When you take in a feral, you have to assume something is wrong until you get it tested and to play it safe, the bird should be isolated. They come from terrible conditions in the city streets of New York so you can't take any chances until you find out from fecal analysis that Animal General does.
> *Phil is 100% correct when he spoke about the bird sharing the cat's food bowl. Cats carry Pasturella and that bacteria is a fast killer of birds, in as little as 24 hours. We carry it in our mouths too*.



OH OH, I have a MUTANT PIGEON! Wasn't gonna say anything, but...well, sometimes, I admit, I just HAVE to make a comment...

After THREE years, I am now waiting for Squeaks to die within 24 hours! 

I don't think anyone else on the site has my type of situation. I have also read about pigeons who live with cats AND dogs. While vigilence is always the key, exceptions can usually be found to every rule. 

MOST of the time, my cats eat ALL their food. They are fed a dry pellet. I have caught Squeaks, every so often, pecking away at the pellets that are sometimes left. I think he even swallows one once in awhile!!  Conclusion: the cats didn't get any cat spit on them, so he's safe! Oh yes, and sometimes, he will leave a poop in their food dish!

AND, to add insult to injury, Squeaks also drinks out of the cat's water dishes. Of course the cats gets theirs too, because, sometimes, when he wants a bath, he WALKS in their water! So, NO tellin' what he's leaving THEM from his feet! I do change the water when I notice him doing his water dish foot bath!

Dr. Burke told me that they couldn't really give each other much UNLESS the cats clawed or bit him. However, I didn't know that Squeaks would drink their water and eat their food occasionally!

I am certainly not denying Pasturella and who knows what else. BUT, either I have exceptionally "clean" cats or Squeaks is an exceptionally "dirty" bird whose immune systems is a whiz at destroying kitty germs!

OR, last but not least, WE ARE VERY LUCKY! Both my cats and bird deserve a life OUT and ABOUT the apartment. Yes, I have to watch, but cats and bird KNOW each other very well and we hope to continue living in fur and feather harmony!


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## Feefo

Hi Shi,

90% of cats carry pasteurella in their saliva. I don't know how easy it is to get infected from a cat bowl, most infections are connected with cat caught birds because they get saliva in their bloodstream and quite a lot on their feathers which is ingested as they preen. One squab that was fed on seed chewed by a human suffered no repercussions, but that is something to be avoided.

Cynthia


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## feralpigeon

Shi, dogs,cats, humans do carry pasteurella in their saliva, with cats having a very high incidence statistically of being carriers. In terms of humans being carriers, yes, this can happen as well which I believe is why Brad cautioned newbies on "wet kisses" because we can pass unwanted bacteria to our pigeons. I don't know how long the bacteria can survive outside the mouth in saliva deposited on an item and would have to look that up, maybe someone has a link. As stated, it none the less, is good to be careful, and in reverse as well, in terms of our pigeons using water bowls left out for other pets as bathing stations. Exposure isn't always certain death, but a very prominent concern which is why a cat caught bird always gets the recomendation of placing on Clavamox (Augmentin) when posting here for help.

Sabina, in terms of caution w/rescues, if you think of the next rescue that comes in frequently using something that a previous rescue has used, then it can make all the sense in the world to be careful in terms of the future ones. You may never come accross a bird w/a disease that is transmittable to humans ie. zoonosis, then again, you could walk into a pet store and possibly catch the illness there without ever having exposure to sick or injured feral pigeons. One never knows and taking some precautions helps in the long run.
I especially isolate incoming birds on GP. One vet I know recommends a six
week quarantine. Half a cup of bleach to one Gallon of water will get most
viruses and bacteria, don't count on it getting worm eggs though. A cage liner on the bottom would help w/this.

fp


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## Aias

i would like to point out, that this is now either the third or fourth time that we explain that Oscar NEVER ate, or drunk, out of the cat bowls, or stuck his head inside the mouth of any of our cats. 

he simply decided that the standing on the Akira's food bowl would make for the best photo and so that is what we did. as a result of ongoing negotiations, he has agreed to pose elsewhere, as in this photo:


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## John_D

Aias said:


> i would like to point out, that this is now either the third or fourth time that we explain that Oscar NEVER ate, or drunk, out of the cat bowls, *or stuck his head inside the mouth of any of our cats*.


Very wise too. Just make sure Oscar doesn't come into contact with the glandular secretions of a Duck-Billed Platypus, either  



> he simply decided that the standing on the Akira's food bowl would make for the best photo and so that is what we did. as a result of ongoing negotiations, he has agreed to pose elsewhere, as in this photo:


And what an absolutely adorable little squeak Oscar is  Lovely pic.

John


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## Reti

I love this little Oscar. He is the cutest little baby.

Reti


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## mr squeaks

I *fully realize *the danger inherent in having cats and pigeon is such close proximity but both deserve the best I can offer and space is one of them...repeat: I KNOW about cat saliva...I worked for a VET for 7 yrs. and did learn a few things!

(AIAS, the last comments were NOT directed at you. You had already stated that eating out of the cat's bowl was not done and not an issue.)

I posted what I did because I have a unique situation. I FOUND a badly injured wing pigeon! I HAD FOUR CATS (now 3). I REFUSED to give up my cats AND I REFUSED to let the pigeon DIE!

DILEMMA...*what to do?...*small 1 bdrm apartment and TWO different species. I wrote my story 3 years ago...

I won't trade the adventures and laughter FOR ANYTHING! I, my cats, and Squeaks DO live "on the edge." We are doing our best.

Squeaks does not bathe in the cat's water dishes - they are too small. If he wants a drink, he goes up to the dish and takes one. ONLY when he wants a bath do I notice that he keeps stepping in the water. The water, of course is changed and it's bath time for Squeakers... 

If I'm sounding peevish, I am and I apologize. Please understand that I DO know the risks and do what I can to avoid potential disaster - in MY OWN UNIQUE SITUATION...

Thanks... I will not comment on this issue again...


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## feralpigeon

Aias and Sabina,

He is adorable and almost seems to be smiling in this picture.....and didn't mean
to give you an exersize in frustration  . I'm sure your both being great surrogate parents to this sweetie.

fp


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## feralpigeon

mr squeaks said:


> .....
> 
> Squeaks does not bathe in the cat's water dishes - they are too small. If he wants a drink, he goes up to the dish and takes one. ONLY when he wants a bath do I notice that he keeps stepping in the water. .....


I think DD prefers the kitty water bowls for bathing--must be the element of danger, don't you think?  

She also prefers the kitchen sink especially when there are dishes in it  

fp


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## mr squeaks

Aias and Sabina...that is one clear GREAT shot of Oscar!

He is one lucky pigeon!


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## Feather

What a little cutie, I think that is the age that they need help the most.

For sure that picture is clear, I think we have the same CDs.

Feather


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## Aias

i would like to say, as oscar's press agent, that i truly appreciate all the kind words about his photos. we understand full well the tough competition we are facing in a market where scooter (now with super-natural powers) reigns supreme.

mr. squeaks, i know that you werent making those comments AT us, i just wanted to be absolutely clear about what the situation was since it apparently wasnt transparent enough  

feral pigeon the day that pinky brown goes to the sink, even with dishes in the sink, on her own i will be soooo happy. she is not yet comfortable with the idea of baths or showers in my presence.

we are lucky that there is no duck-billed platypus living with us because i make no guarantees there!

reti thanks for being oscar's number one fan!


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## Maggie-NC

Aias said:


> reti thanks for being oscar's number one fan!


Well, Aias, how about making me Oscar's #2 fan because I think he is adorable. 

Discussing the cat/bird food/water situation makes me think of the number of times our pigeons have pecked a bar of soap at the sink and could start foaming at the mouth but it doesn't hurt them.  These things happen.


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## sabina

Well Maggie, since Aias is Oscar's agent, you'll have to see what he says! But really--we know there are a lot of Oscar lovers out there...he is TOO cute!! Even though Pio and Simao were both smaller than him when they arrived here, Oscar is the only snuggle bunny we've had, he LOVES to cuddle. TWICE he's flown out of his cage and over to the bed when we've been taking a nap (i've been a little sick the last few days), seeming a little frantic, like "wait up guys, what about ME??" The only times he's flown out of his cage were when he was left alone in the living room area (though they're not really separate rooms). He loves to sit like a hen on our chests, being petted, nibbling our fingers, and having his head cradled by our hands. How sweet is that? Such a cute little baby...we are totally in love.

His poops are better today, that yellow-brown color is gone, now they're light green and better formed, he's not squirting all that water anymore thank god! ACV, probiotics and garlic seem to be helping him a lot.

Sabina


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## Reti

Glad the poops are better.
He sounds like the sweetest baby. Are you sure you want to release him?

Reti


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## feralpigeon

sabina said:


> .....
> 
> His poops are better today, that yellow-brown color is gone, now they're light green and better formed, he's not squirting all that water anymore thank god! ACV, probiotics and garlic seem to be helping him a lot.
> 
> Sabina


That's good news, glad to hear that Oscar is doing so much better.....so Oscar
is the same as Pinky Brown?? Very shy thing with the bathing, huh? 

Maybe a privacy screen is in order...or a bathing suit possibly??

fp


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## Skyeking

sabina said:


> His poops are better today, that yellow-brown color is gone, now they're light green and better formed, he's not squirting all that water anymore thank god!* * ACV, probiotics and garlic seem to be helping him a lot.*
> Sabina


Hi Sabina.

I'm glad to hear the little "snuggle bunny"  is doing better.

* They work for my birds too.


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## sabina

Reti--I've started to question the release the last couple days as well. Aias was just saying earlier today that Oscar certainly seems much more content here than any other pigeon we've ever "hosted," including the 2 pet pigeons Sir Duchess and Pinky Brown. I guess we'll wait to see if he grows out of being the snuggle bunny he is now  

fp--we've never had a pigeon that liked to bathe. Don't know if they just weren't comfortable enough here, or if we should be offering a different kind of basin, or what. Maybe you're right, maybe a Speedo is in order!

Sabina


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## mr squeaks

sabina said:


> Reti--I've started to question the release the last couple days as well. Aias was just saying earlier today that Oscar certainly seems much more content here than any other pigeon we've ever "hosted," including the 2 pet pigeons Sir Duchess and Pinky Brown. I guess we'll wait to see if he grows out of being the snuggle bunny he is now
> 
> fp--*we've never had a pigeon that liked to bathe. Don't know if they just weren't comfortable enough here, or if we should be offering a different kind of basin, or what*. Maybe you're right, maybe a Speedo is in order!
> 
> Sabina


I have used a kitty litter box for Squeaks who always splashes water everywhere!

One day, I read in the forum that some people put their pigeons in the shower, with or without them joining in.  

Tried it with Squeaks and he loved it! He likes that spray so much that he'll stand under it until I take him out! He'll still use the litter box and now hops in without me putting him in. So, when it's bath time, he'll get one or the other depending on how busy I am...


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## Aias

*oscar update*

oscar is starting to get a 3'clock shadow, he is growing up. here are is a new photo and there are more in my flickr link:










and the flickr ones http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/oscar/

i am very struck by the dramatic difference oh his pmv symptoms in the day, as you can see in the following video, the difference is, umm, night and day:

http://lordsmessengers.com/fotos/oscar.mov

oh, and he is now a plump 300 grams.


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## Maggie-NC

Aias, that picture is worthy of our upcoming photo competition. It captures the innocence and sweetness of this precious little pigeon.


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## Aias

OK maggie you are officially the #2 fan!!  



Lady Tarheel said:


> Aias, that picture is worthy of our upcoming photo competition. It captures the innocence and sweetness of this precious little pigeon.


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## Pete Jasinski

Oscar is growing into one handsome big boy


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## Reti

He is absolutely the cutest. I would so love to cuddle and kiss him.

Reti


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## Charis

He looks really smart but oh the beak... 
I'd like to kiss him too. They are just so sweet and fun at that age.


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## TAWhatley

Great photos and video, Aias and Sabina! Oscar is a sweetie for sure. Truly, his PMV symptoms are not severe at all compared to some I have seen and to one I currently have. Bless you both for taking him in!

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx

AIAS, is that chair Oscar's favorite spot?? also, were his eyes yellow when you first got him?? someone told me when they are young their eyes are yellow or amber and turn into the reddish brown later..??? is that true anyone??


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## Aias

yes it is, sort of. he is not allowed anywhere else but this room, so it is the cage or the couch, of course he chooses the couch and wont allow any other pigeons or cats on it. fortunately he doesnt mind us seating on it.

when they are young their eyes are dark, blackish grey, as they become teenagers their eyes lighten up and eventually change color to the eyes adult ferals have. also, when they are young their feet are not fuschia pink like the adults, but are grey pink with grey which they also loose when they become adults.

if you want to see oscar before he becomes a full-blown adult you better hurry and visit us soon!  



xxmoxiexx said:


> AIAS, is that chair Oscar's favorite spot?? also, were his eyes yellow when you first got him?? someone told me when they are young their eyes are yellow or amber and turn into the reddish brown later..??? is that true anyone??


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