# Injured Dove,ADVICE APRECIATED



## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I found an inured dove yesterday with a quarter size wound just above the tail feathers ,feathers and skin are gone and it looks like a deep cut,I just wanted to run by what iv done and see if anyone has any other advice,there is no one in the area that will treat a wild bird and i want to give it a chance,

Cleaned wound as best as i could yesterday with warm water and iodine,today with warm water

Put it in a cat carrier with towel and a heating pad under carrier Azithromycin antibiotic diluted with water and syrup 1cc (it took it with no problem)


It drank about 4 cc of water with the syringe,i think he would of drank more but wasn't sure if it would be to much at once

Put neosporin on wound

It is not eating the seeds i put in with it,is there something i can add to the water that will help?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Just so others know, Marsha did PM me asking for help and I gave her some initial instructions in my message back to her late last night and have also told her it was best to start a thread, so everyone can see what is going on with her little guy.

Marsha, whenever possible we like to a get a photo posted up up of the bird in question and also of any recent droppings the bird has made.

Marsha, I was looking at my PM to you and I want to correct the dose of med that I told you to give to .15cc (the middle of the first and second line on a 1cc syringe or 3 drops) of the Azithromycin going forward, every 24 hours, as I mentioned in my PM, anyone can make a mistake giving advice that's why we like to do things in the forum for all to see, and I have. The dose I gave you was too large and will not be a problem as it will serve as a loading dose, getting a larger amount of meds into the blood stream up front, but too high to continue with.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

View attachment 17052
Here is a picture,it looks wet because of the neosporine


Im sorry that was a typo i meant 1/2cc is what i gave it,its just that the syringe i have is in ml so I asked the pharmacist what a 1/2 cc is in ml and he said 0.5 so thats what i gave it.The syringe starts at 0.1 ,0.2 and so on up to 1 ml ,? Sorry for the confusion so the dose would be 1.5 ml?The dropping looked whiteish yellow,pretty much what you would find on your windshield,ill try to get one though!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes cc and mL are the same. Thanks for the photo of the injury, please also post up a photo of any droppings if you can. On the syringe .15cc/mL would be the middle of the first and second line, you will give the med only once every 24 hours for 3 days.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Does it look like something it can get threw,I know its hard to tell from a photo,Im just realy pulling for the littl guy!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, with a bit of luck, I expect this wound will heal in time, so that you may never know it was there. The biggest danger in these cases is a possible infection from Pasturella Multocida, this is a bacteria that cats carry in their mouth and is deadly to birds when it enters their blood stream and they become infected. The trick is to get them on appropriate antibiotics ASAP to either prevent an infection from taking root or to treat an infection that has taken root, but has not progressed to the point of no return for them, where antibiotics are too late in coming to cure them.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

As far as the wound itself,this morning i ran warm water over from the faucet and put on neosporin should this be done daily to rince the old neo off and put new on for the next few days?Or should it be done less often?Sorry for all the questions,iv never done this before with a bird.As kid your told keep it clean and ointment for a couple of days and then let it air out and dry,but no idea when it comes to birds.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, lots of questions are good, don't be shy to ask any question you want. After the initial cleansing with warm water, which you have done, you will not wash the wound again, unless you feel it has gotten dirty somehow. Just apply a coating of Neosporin once day for the next week, or so, then we'll reassess things. Marsh, tomorrow when you give this little guy his medicine again, when you open his mouth, please have a peek inside and make sure it is pink looking with no cheesy looking growths, there is an infection these guys can get called canker and although I do not really think this is a concern for your little guy, I would be remiss if I did not ask you to do a routine check.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Karyn,Ill do that!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Some good, close-up images of his poops?


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> Some good, close-up images of his poops?


I willl get some up tomorrow,my camera went so I have to wait for my daughter to get home to upload some from her phone.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I had a question about the antibiotic that I mixed up today,I left it on the counter covered,can it be used tomorrow or do I need to make it up new each day?Thanks a bunch!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

The very small kinds of whole Seeds, like for Finches or Parakeets...would be good.
White Safflower Seeds would be about the largest for these kind of Doves.


Often, a Dove who is caught by a Cat is a sick Dove...so...images of poops can help decide some possibilities.

Do you know how to check his Crop to see if it is full, empty, or as may be?


A couple more imgages of the Dove himself, with no Hands, would also be good...a close up of his face, and some general views.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh ow, the poor thing.
can you possibly find a wildlife rehabber near you.
if she were in my care i would have her on baytril, metacam for pain and be tubing her if she didn't want to eat.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

marsha88 said:


> I had a question about the antibiotic that I mixed up today,I left it on the counter covered,can it be used tomorrow or do I need to make it up new each day?Thanks a bunch!


Marsha, no big deal in leaving it out for part of a day, just put it in the refrigerator now and before you draw the next dose for this little guy tomorrow, make sure you stir/shake the med up before drawing out a dose, then back in the fridge. As Phil mentions again, some more photos would be helpful, don't forget a clear, close-up of recent droppings.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> The very small kinds of whole Seeds, like for Finches or Parakeets...would be good.
> White Safflower Seeds would be about the largest for these kind of Doves.
> 
> 
> ...


No,I dont even know what a crop is,I dont know about birds,I was just luck to come across this forum after finding him.Can you explian what it is and to do?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, a bird's crop is like a holding tank for the food it eats before it is transfered further down the digestive tract. It's located about 1 1/2" below the top of the neck and it's like a small balloon that will fill up when there is food in it. When you feel and it has food/seeds in it, it feels like a small squishy bean bag, and when there is no food it feels flat and empty. Here is a link to some shots. they are of pigeons, but doves are the same, just smaller. One of the photos shows a finger pointing right at the crop area:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/165797594SYYRWL

Hate to be a pest, but photos of the droppings for us to see is quite important right now, they will tell us a lot about the bird.

Thanks,

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Anyway...we need to be able to co-relate food intake, and, poops, and or if the Crop is passing foods well.

Of course, if the Dove is not eating, then this kinda is a factor too...


Are they eating?

How many poops so far?

What sort of food/Seeds have you offered?



Anyway, as far as the occasional 'Chewed' Birds I have had, Pigeons and Doves, all turned out well...but, all had been ill when caught by the Dog or Cat.


Usually, 'Worms'...'Canker/Trichomoniasis', Canida, combinations of things, sometimes some other thing or things.

So, this is usually a critical underscore of Cat caught or Dog caught Birds.


Most of these 'Chewed' ones, I only had 'Neosporin' for the topical address, and it always worked just fine...everything healed splendidly, and, new Feathers grew in and you'd never know anything had ever happened.

Just takes a few months! Or less...


These little delicate Doves are typically tough and hardy and very strong for their size, and very wiley...and it takes a lot to get them down...but once down, or grounded or weak, they can get caught and mauled or chewed or eaten.


He is very lucky things worked out so well!!


Also if this is an adult Dove ( kinda looked like a young post-fledgling though, but ) they can launch off "Like a Rocket" once feeling better...so, maybe figure out a way to have some soft padding on the inside of the Cage or container top...so once he is feeling better, if he DOES "launch", he will not knock himself out or break his neck.

Doves are wacky!!!

Believe me...don't let that calm, serene, Blue Eye Lid, 'Poker Face' fool you...

"Wacky" and usually very VERY easily 'spooked' ( and totally love-able )...



Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Little Dove Album from a few years ago...click on 'next' for successive images...there are captions, also.


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/young-dove---july-1/mvc-781s.html



This little guy had way over 30 stitches, had been Cat caught...

Very sweet little Dove, and very able to launch off LIKE A ROCKET!!!


Lol...Which he did do, too! on day two...


So...watch out...


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

*Images*

I managed to get these with my phone they are not great,the color of the droppings are yellow and green here but sometimes theer whiteish yellow,he is starting to clean himself which i hope is a good sign,he is starting to walk around in the carrier without falling over and is still drincking from the syriing,but I havent seen him eat other than when i put the seeds inside the front of his beak,but he is alot more alert,friday when i got him he wouldnt even move and barly opened his eyes,and you werent kiding about takeing off quick,I had him wrapped in the towel getting ready to give his medicin and he flew out of the towel up to the kitchen ceiling but came right back down an sat on the floor,Im worried about him not eating on his own although he may be eating and i just havnt seen it yet.
View attachment 17076


View attachment 17077


View attachment 17078


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, the cleaning himself, we call this preening, is a good sign, and walking without falling over is good. The droppings show he is not really eating much and the color is off a little too.

If he eats when you put seeds in front of his beak, spend some tine with him on you lap, wrapped in a towel, kind of like a little tent/cave and see if you can get him to eat more than he has, if you could manage to get a teaspoon into him a 2-3 times a day, it would be good, if you could get him to take about 5mL of water after these feedings, this would be good as well. His world has been turned upside down, he's sick and he's a little scared, so it may take a little while before he feels a little more at ease to start to eat.

Did you have a peek inside his mouth?

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Yes it looks good,clean nothing stuck out,so far he wont eat if the seed unless i open his beak and put it in,then he doses the rest,I just finished feeding him some and he did drink water out of the bowl for the first time but only with me holding up to his beak ,when he realized what it was he took a few drinks.Also after taking a drink it seemed like he was trying to rub the side of his head in the water for some reason.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

okay i'm going to say it again, can you find a rehabber, they will be able to tube her if she isn't eating


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

altgirl35 said:


> okay i'm going to say it again, can you find a rehabber, they will be able to tube her if she isn't eating


As i said in my first post I can not find anyone,If I could I certainly wouldn,t be trying myself!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

marsha88 said:


> Yes it looks good,clean nothing stuck out,so far he wont eat if the seed unless i open his beak and put it in,then he doses the rest,I just finished feeding him some and he did drink water out of the bowl for the first time but only with me holding up to his beak ,when he realized what it was he took a few drinks.Also after taking a drink it seemed like he was trying to rub the side of his head in the water for some reason.


Marsha, you are doing great, for someone new to all of this. What you are doing, putting seeds in his mouth and letting him swallow, is something we do here all the time her for birds. Most times we recommend thawed and warmed frozen peas and corn, but these will be too big for this little dove and seeds are perfect. Just try and make sure he gets enough, the best you can, measure a teaspoon out so you can keep track of how much is going in. Make sure you spread some seeds around in front of his seed dish as well to peck at, this will lead him to notice the seeds in the dish as well. Also, guiding his beak into the water is exactly right as well, you can gently stroke the side of his beak to help him feel to drink, after a few times he will realize where the water is as well.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Karyn,ill do that and be sure to update.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi MArsha,



It strongly appears that your Dove has a Canker/Trichomona infection...even if his Throat is clear of debris.


The flat, Watercolor-like 'yellow' Urates are typical of this....and it is typical of many grounded or downed or predation-escape Doves.


He will need medicines for this, and the usual is 'Metronidazole'.


If you can find a Tropical Fish Supply in your area, they will carry 'Fishzole'...get some absolutely as soon as possible, and check back with us for dosage.


He likely has no interest in eating for the time being...and this is fine, you can let him fast for now.

Once he is getting the meds, he will soon-enough feel like eating again.


Provide him with a small inch deep or deeper Water Bowl, and ACV-Water - Apple Cider Vinegar, two and a half Tablepoons to a Gallon of Water, for his drinking Water.


Make haste on the Meds.



Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

You can just use white Paper Towels for his Cage bottom...easier on you, easy to change out and throw away and renew.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> Hi MArsha,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I called a pet kare and they said they had Aquarisol,which they said is the same thing,is that correct? Not the same from what i just read,the girl said they were the same!


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I should have the fish zole Tuesday none of the stores had it,I hope that isnt to late,they are 250mg tablets.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

marsha88 said:


> I called a pet kare and they said they had Aquarisol,which they said is the same thing,is that correct? Not the same from what i just read,the girl said they were the same!


Marsha, the girl is wrong in the fact they may do the same thing, but Aquarisol is copper sulfate and it would not take much of it to really harm a bird. Call and ask for Metronidazole, there are some fish stores that stock it by its drug name. If you have a relationship with a pharmacy or sympathetic doctor, perhaps you could get a single pill until Tuesday, this really may be all we need to treat him.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

marsha88 said:


> I should have the fish zole Tuesday none of the stores had it,I hope that isnt to late,they are 250mg tablets.


Call around some more Monday morning...see if any Parrot or Raptor Rescue groups in your area...their members would have meds...other Tropical Fish Supply places or pet stores carrying Tropical Fish supplies, etc...


This is urgent...every hour lost on getting them started on the right meds, is serious...


Post some more images, close-ups, in focus, of today's poops?


One danger with this, is the Crop can cease passing solids...and or solids dam up and prevent it from even passing Liquids...


Long as we are seeing plenty of Urates, the Oral Meds should be able to work...


No food for now...only ACV-Water...


Where are you located? Maybe we have a member close to you whom you could get some meds from.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

marsha88 said:


> As i said in my first post I can not find anyone,If I could I certainly wouldn,t be trying myself!


oh, i didn't see that


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok im happy to report the little guy made it threw another night and seems to be holding his own and i also got the fish zole,so Im checking back on the dosage and how to prepare it they are 250mg tablets,also bought some Kaytee Exact any thoughts on this and when to start it would be great.Thanks again for helping me get the little guy this far.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


Daily dose for a younger Morning Dove would be about 1/10th of one Tablet then, or about 25 mG.

Can you get to a Petsmart and get a tube of 'Nutristart'? ( Kitten-Puppy isle )...it is a brown 'goo' in a plastic Tube.

If so, please do so a.s.a.p.


Images of recent poops?


Are they drinking? Are they allowing you to handle them without too much protest?


I usually Tube Meds and Nutriments into their Crop directly when need be.


But, often, they will eat a Pill volentarily, or, if their Throat is clear, I will put the Pill-portion into their Mouth far enough for them to swallow it ( without spitting it out ).



Ummmmmm, if you can sit next to a bright Lamp, have her Legs back straight so they are parallel to her body and feet back by her Tail...


Set her this way into a small Cloth or larger Washcloth, or small Hand Towel folded in half, which is laying across your thighs as you sit...gently squish her down into the low middle spot keeping her Legs staright back, and wrap one side over her, then the other, so her Head and neck are sticking out somewhat, and, you will have a 'Burrito Dove' ( who can not wiggle or get out of the wrap to avoid having their Beak opened ).

Be very sensitive to the Beak and if it is bending...if it is bending, stop and we can try something else instead.

Anyway...

Spigot her vertically between your thighs just behind your knees as a 'Buttiro', so you are holding her with your Legs, Both Hands free...and so only the lower half of her Body is being held...


Open her Beak, pulling her head up and her Neck staraight so you can see well into her Mouth and Throat.


All should be nice and healthy 'Pink' in there, but, it might not be...and what you are looking for are any 'Tofu' looking or other cheezy material things, off white or yellowish, which might be blocking her ability to swallow solid foods or meds.

Do this, and let us know.


If her Throat appears clear...you can just put a Tablet part into her Mouth or rear of her Mouth...and to do so, use a single edged Razor Blade, and, cut the Tablet in half...being then 125 mG...cut that half in half, and you have like 62.5-ish mG.

Half of one of those then is 'close enough' and a slightly heavy first dose is fine to do anyway...jut 'eye ball' for proportion and it will be fine.


Keep the rest aside, and Karyn can guide you into how to prepare it or further doses.



Phil
Lv


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha good stuff. With the Metronidazole there are two ways to do it, one is where we crush and make up a suspension like we did for the other med, we will just change things a little in amount used to make it. The second is, perhaps the easiest and quickest for you, is we need to take one of the pills and cut into six pieces with a sharp razor/knife, and then each of these pieces into two (you will then have 12 pieces, about 21mg each). You can then "pop" one piece into the back of this little guy's mouth, like in this video clip, once a day for the next 4 days. (shows feeding, but is used for meds as well):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

With the Kaytee to get your mind ready, read this post starting at post #61 about how to get started with tube feeding:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/urgent-blood-in-poop-3-weeks-old-pigeon-46304.html

After reading this, if you have any questions, please ask. Sometimes it takes envisioning just what you will be doing a few times in your mind, we may be able to get him to start to eat on his own, but if we don't, we may have to go this route.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Indeed...little Dove-Bunny is going to be needing some nutriments/calories like soon.

Waiting for the visual Throat inspection report and poop images de jur..!



The 'Burrito' is how I hold them for Tube Feeding...also.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I think im going to have to make it into liquid,these thing are very hard to cut,they are round pellet like tablets.How should i do this? I thought i could just put the piece in is mouth since he eats the bird seeds when i do this but these thing keep breaking and im afraid to cut my finger of if i keep trying to get it right.His poops are the same color but thicker,and has been pretty good with handling him and dosnt seem to mind me hand feeding him seeds but after about 15 minutes he will start turning his headaway as if he doent want anymore,he is also drinking well from the syring,he just drinks the drops out on his own but still wont eat or drink on his own in the carrier that iv seen,he pretty much just sits and looks around but seems to know what is coming when i take him out and dosnt mind,mouth still looks clean.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, I want you to get a shot-glass or an espresso cup, and then get the Metronidazole and place two of the 250mg pills (500mg) in the shot-glass/cup, and crush them up into as fine a powder as you can using the end of a kitchen utensil that you think will work well to crush with, I use the end of a small cooking whisk. Next, take your 1cc syringe and fill it to the 10th line, this will be 1cc, with warm water and slowly stir in a few drops at a time into the crushed Metronidazole until it forms a paste and use your tool again to further crush this paste for a minute, Metronidazole does not like to mix with water and this will help make the particles even finer. 

Then empty the remainder of the water in the syringe in. Now fill the syringe 4 more times to to the 1cc mark and add, you will now have 500mg of Metronidazole and 5mL of water in the shot glass. Now to this add 1 cooking teaspoon of syrup, use the same one as you used for the Azithromycin, and add this (scape out the spoon) ans stir/shake well, you will now have 10mL of a 5% Metronidazole suspension, (50mg/mL,) now give the little one an initial dose of 0.50cc (this is 1/2 a cc, to the middle of a 1cc syringe), this will be 25mg of Metronidazole. Then tomorrow, reduce it to 0.40cc (this will be 20mg) for the next 4 days, and we'll reassess then.

Make sure you shake, or stir, the suspension(s) well anytime you are drawing up the med to give him. Just gently open his mouth and place one drop at a time in the front of his mouth and allow him to tongue it down. Refrigerate the meds after use until next time.


Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

He needs more hydration...


Please work on guiding his Beak into tepid Water for him to drink naturally...keep your finger tip pads on his Beak sides as you do so...he needs a LOT more Water than the 'dribble' has provided, and a lot more than it can provide.


Just use a little inch deep ( no less ) Custard Dish or something similar and stable...have him on a Towel on your Lap...guide his Beak into the Bowl of Water set right there in front of him. Left Hand can even be steadying or covering him softly ( review the images of the little Cat mauled Dove in the Album I had posted ), right hand finger tip pads softly guide his Beak into the Water keeping your finger tip pads on his Beak.


If he is able to eat and swallow, use a similar little Custard Cup for small whole Seeds, and work with him on pecking.


If using a single edge Razor Blade to cut a Tablet, do so on a Notebook or something.

If it is too hard to 'cut', then break it with the base of a Coffee Mug or something, fold the Pill in a sheet of paper, and then elect a piece which is about 1/10th.


Just 'eye ball' a piece which is about one tenth or so for now, it does not have to be perfect...get them to swallow it...have them drink afterward...and get them drinking in general..!


Best wishes!

Phil
Lv

Images of today's recent poops?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, as Phil mentions, please try and get this little one drinking on their own, but until you are satisfied that he is doing this well, in your initial PM to me you said he drank 4mL of water from the syringe just fine, if you could do this 3-4 times a day (take it slow and easy), we will know he is well hydrated. Also, if he does start to be tube feed, hydration will not be a large concern because of the high water content of the formula.

Follow Phil's instructions on getting him to eat from the cup and peck, but please make sure you spend a good bit of time getting seeds into him, like you were doing before, placing some in his mouth, letting him swallow and repeating. We need to work on him self-feeding, but we still have to make sure he is getting a decent amount of food into him for nourishment.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


Anyway, if the Dove can abide having 4 CC of liquids dribbled in safely, go for the gusto!

He needs especially good hydration in general, and, for the Meds to be working well.

As much ACV in his Water as he will stand, would be good...and or try two Tablespoons to a Gallon anyway, see if he will abide that...it will help the Medicine work better as well as giving other benefits.


But, I am confident he will drink volentarily...it sometimes takes some working with them to get it going...once they will do it a few times with assistance ( finger tip pads on Beak ) then they soon drink by themselves. Just be very slow and soft and gentle.



Morning Doves are normally VERY shy about eating or drinking if anyone else is near, so, they have a conflict when we are wishing to care for them, and, our guidance and assistance can let them overcome the shyness.


Ditto with pecking...pretend-peck with him using your crook'd index finger...he will start pecking then...he will recognise you are not going to steal the Seeds or bully him, since you are sharing the Seeds in his terms by 'pecking' with him...( even if he is not pecking yet).


Images of latest poops?



Phil
Lv


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Im going to have my daughter take one of the poop my camera is not taking pictures up close to good,it is grren and white and thicker than before,i dont know if thats good or bad but for the first time i came home and found him up and walking he seemed to be exploring the carrier, he has been drinking from a cup when i hold it up to his beak but i thought if i used the syring to i would have a better idea of how much he is getting,after about 5cc he seems to loose interest but I usually wait a couple of hours and use the cup in between the syring so as of right now he is getting water both ways I also tryed the Kaytee exact today and he at about 3cc out of the syring and some seeds that i put in his beek but still havent seen him eating on his own tn the carrier,but im hoping now that he seems to be up and exploring his surroundings he will start.I keep doing the pecking but he just looks at me.
View attachment 17109


View attachment 17110


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha, 



What a cute little Dove...


Try the 'pecking' invite like this - him on a towl on yuor Lap, little Bowl of Seeds right under his Beak -


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/young-dove---july-1/


Sorry Karyn on not seeing your meds-prep Post when I posted mine beneath it.


I think you edited that in a little after?


Lol...


Anyway, glad to see the little Dove walking around and feeling better...hydration over a couple days can work wonders just in itself.


Good, clear-close-up poop images soon as you can?


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, this little guy is looking much better, and cute as heck. Work with Phil on the eating and drinking, he's just so very good at figuring out a way of coaxing these guys to eat. Although the photo is not clear of the dropping, I can make out a decent shape and from your description, sounds like they are not looking too bad either. Today will be this little guys last day on the Azithromycin, this is a long acting antibiotic and will stay in his system for almost 2 more days. Continue with the Metronidazole still, of course, and keep doing what you are doing.



> I think you edited that in a little after?


Phil, what happened was that Marsha was asking for help with the Metronidazole, so since I noticed she was on-line, I put up a couple of words up to tell her to hold on a minute, while I put together instructions for making a suspension for her. Then I took out my place note and C&P the instructions in, so it looks like I edited later, but this was C&P.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Phil you mention Doves are shy about eating and drinking,do you think its possible for him to be eating and drinking some when im not around,it just seems like im filling his bowls more than what iv been taking out to feed him and when i put fresh water in its always fillled to the rim,so i can tell water is gone but i asumed he might be spilling it but i cant find any wet spots.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Well...you kinda gotta count-the-poops to really say how much he is eating.


When they are young like yours is, and like quite a few I have had, they can get over a lot of the shyness easily enough by the gentle things I had mentioned and shown.


Older adult Morning Doves are much more difficult to put to ease.


Are you using white paper Towels for his Carrier Bottom?


Easy to see the poops that way, and to count them.


If all were ideal, he'd be making around 40 or so poops in 24 hours.


Images ofsome recentmost poops?



Phil
Lv


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Karyn and Phil,I just want to report that our little guy is becoming combative,if i go to peek in on him he will launch himself at the door and bounce of and do a little strut around his carrier,I have to admit that i was a little excited in the hopes that this means he starting to eel better and is getting his energy back,I also think i found out were all his poops were going,while i was putting his neosporine on i noticed a big round ball of poop almost the size of a ping pong ball attached to his tail feather,white and green color,i rinsed it of with warm water,he is starting to open his mouth on his own for the Kaytee in the syringe so all i have to do is squeeze a little at a time in and is also drinking from a cup when i put it to his beak,today he ate about 2 teaspoon fulls one this morning and just now plus seeds in between,I have to admit i am very surprised at the difernce in him from when i found him, his wound is starting to look nice and pink instead of red and raw.Also wanted to say thank you for all the help,if it wasnt for both of you this little guy would surly be dead!Hopeffully with all your help and a little luck he will have the chance to spread his wings and fly away one day!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lol...you see how they can be?


People are fooled by that calm, serene, 'Poker Face' which the Morning Doves have...the Body language which lets on pretty much nothing...while behind serene wonderful large Black glistening Eyes, there lurks a whole World of wacky Dovedom/Doveness and surprises...including those out-of-the-blue 'Launches'...


Hence, best to apply some sort of soft padding to any Cage's inside top area.


If one has a Morning Dove who over time becomes genuinely and completely accepting and at Home and regards you as a fellow...they really change, they allow their Faces to be expressive, their paralinguistics become expressive, they relax and lay around completely at ease and they are very different then...but, untill then, or otherwise, they let on nothing of their intentions or their emotions...even if the young ones are less disciplined in these ways than the adults.


Images of he himself as himself?


Images of the wound area?


And images of some recent poops/urates?


Indeed, check his little Butt area often to make sure it is clean and tidy.


Illness or meds or unusual foods can make for adhesive poops getting built up back there.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, I never like to jinx things, and say we are out of the woods, but it may be a good idea, now that perhaps the worst has passed, to see if we can located a good rehabber in your general area. I know nobody may be real close, but let's see who is the closest that could take this bird in and put him with other doves that are going to be released back to the wild, best a rehabber do this to give him his best chance at making it.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

As for me, I never had any handy way of Socializing Baby Doves I was raising to their Wild adult fellows.

I could socialize them to Wild Feral Pigeons out of Doors, which worked pretty good far as that goes, but, they still knew they were "Doves" and not "Pigeons", so, all in all, seemed to work out pretty good...even if not ideal.

They'd get the time and experience of being around adult Birds of a similar ( if greatly larger ) Species, with my supervision, of course.


All the infant/Baby/Juvenile logistically Orphan Doves I have raised, once independent and self possessed and long since self feeding and wing Slapping and so on, I would let self release, by merely having a Door open.

They'd go out, spend the day out of doors who knows where, and, fly back in at nightfall.


After however many rounds of that, they'd go out and be gone a few days, and then come back.

Then, they'd go, and I would not see them again.


It's a different deal when one is raising a Baby, and one is the defacto 'Daddy' or 'Mommy', and as they grow and develop, they decide they are grown up and they become independent and will not let you get near them then.


Various fledgling or post fledgling ones I have rehabbed, they get to spend time in the general Milieu, shoulder-to-shoulder with the Pigeons, or as they please, then, after a while, I would let them self release.


I have seen a 130 Gram soaking wet Morning Dove fight with a three Pound Bantam Hen over a 'Ritz Cracker'...and the Dove would NOT back off ( I had to break those fights up, set up a barrier so each could have their own Cracker and not see the other enjoying theirs...)


They can be quite fierce and determined!!



Lol...


Anyway, crumble up a 'Ritz Cracker' sometime for yours...Morning Doves usually LOVE Ritz Crackers...as do virtually all Birds of any sort.


But, as Karyn suggests, indeed yes...if you can find some sort of sympathetic rehabber who could allow the youngish Dove you have, to spend some post-got-well time in and among adult Birds, this would be good.

It can help the young one acquire or continue to perfect many skills, and to learn or further advance their practice of self assertion and savvy and whatever else as goes into getting along in this World.


Whether then to be self-released, or, released "to" some place you know the Doves graze all the time...and probably the latter would be worth thinking about.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I meant to ask about the possibility of lice and if sevin 5 could be used or would it not be a good idea with the wound?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

marsha88 said:


> I meant to ask about the possibility of lice and if sevin 5 could be used or would it not be a good idea with the wound?


Marsha, is there a reason you think your little guy may have a lice problem?

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

If they have Body Lice, there is nothing secret about it...you hold the Bird in your Hands, and you have Lice crawling on your wrists in like two seconds.


Lol...


So, if no Lice crawling on your Wrists when holding the Dove, ( you can feel it, too and see them easily ) then I would say you do not have a Bird with Lice.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Havent seen anything or felt anything,but a few people mentioned that they usualy cary lice and mites and was just wondering if i should be concerned,whenever i hold him for feeding and meds its always with a towel wrapped around him and then the towel goes right in the washer,do you think i would still see them with him wrapped up?I just want to make sure im not over looking anything.The last thing i want on me or this little guy are those buggers!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, it's real easy to see the lice, if they have any. They like to take refuge most times under the wing area. Lift a wing up and out and have a look on the underside, if this little guys has them you will see what looks like thin, brown pencil marks, about 1/4 long, and if you touch them, they will move deeper into the feather. If you don't see anything under either side, chances are this guy is clear.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I would not be concerned.


There is no need to wash the Towel every time.


It is not like this Dove has Wet Leprosy or Aids or weeping sores oozing Hep C serums or something.

If anything, to thoroughly wash your hands well before handling the Dove, would be vastly more realistic if concerned about any contageons - since you have lots of things which can be transmitted to a Bird with pathological consequences, and this Bird has nothing which could be transmitted to you.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Karyn,Phil, just an update on the little dove,Its been 8 days now and doing good and more combative every day and lightning fast,which is needless to say not good when i try to get him out for feedings.Also was wondering about the Metronidazole,and if should it be continued?Will post some pictures of poop later today,(stole my daughters camer)mine is junk as you can tell with the other poop pics.Aso Karyn I went to delete some pm's and forgot to uncheck urs with the Azritromycin formula,i believe it was 1 teaspoon water and 1 syrup is that correct?I would just like to note it down on what he was given and how just in case ,were i live i is common here of people to finding injured birds that die because ther is no place to take them,there cure is to break the little birds neck or through it to a cat,luckily it was a friend that spotted him laying in the field injured,(she knows im and animal lover weather it be a bunny or a snake)and pointed him out.and want to say again thanks for all the help you guys are great!Photos will be up later.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi marsha,



Well, lets see the poop images then soon as you can post them...and some images of her herself also.


How many days on the Metronidazole has it been?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Phil,5 days,but I have a new concern,in one of the photos you will see a small bald spot on the bend of a wing and i have pulled a couple of small feathers out of his beak,didnt think much of it until i seen the bald spot.Here are the first 3 the rest are below in anither post,it would only alow 3 at a time.
View attachment 17167


View attachment 17168


View attachment 17169


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

View attachment 17170


View attachment 17171


View attachment 17172

More below


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

View attachment 17173


View attachment 17174


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Can you try again, but this time, have the images in focus?


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

View attachment 17178


View attachment 17179


View attachment 17181
Phil i hope these are a little better.Not to much,I just cant get this right.Iv tryed eveything and cant get any good closeups!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, since the bird is doing well, there is no immediate urgency for the photos. Perhaps in the next day a friend or a family member could help out with some better ones, if not just keep taking a bunch of them until you can pick out a few that are not too bad. Even though the dropping photos are fuzzy, there nothing that has me thinking this bird is far from right, so again, no real alarms here. I would keep her on the Metronidazole for a few more days, in the meantime perhaps the better photos will finalize things.

With the wing as well, we will need clearer photos, do you think this is something new or perhaps part of her original predation injury that is healing and it's feels itchy to her, so she is over-grooming the area?

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I noticed it today,and remembered finding him with a little feather in his mouth twice,other than that he seems to be doing great by the way he is acting.he has seemed jumpy the last few days as if he is getting restless.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Please examine the area for any redness, swelling, bumps.... anything that does not look quite right to you. Phil, can speak to this with Doves, but perhaps in his new found exuberance he has brushed/scraped the area and damaged the feathers a bit.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Poops look good...


Back wound area looks good...


What is going on with the Wing/Shoulder?



Are they banging around in their Carrier/Cage?



Phil
Lv


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I really dont know Phil ,Just seen it today when i took the photos of the poop,pulled a very small feather out of his beak twice in the last few days,didnt think much of it unti i seen his wing,he does jump around alot when i go to get him out of the cage and i think i mentioned he had rammed the carrier door a couple of time when peeking in on him,i didnt notice it before,thats what got me worried,could he be plucking himself,could it be from stress,I dont see any of those buggers on him,he looks clean,alert,struts around and flew to my kitchen ceiling (wasnt holding on good)doing great compaired to when i found him,he couldnt even stand,layed on his side and didnt even move,I thought he was going to take his last breath as i picked him up,so this thing n his wing just worries me abit! Oh hes the only one,he was just a bird a friend and I found in a field.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...keep an Eye on the shoulder thing of missing Feathers.

He might be doing some sort of repeated banging or chafing in the Carrier.

A one time bang or scrape will not do this, but, repeating a maneuver which rubs or abrades, can...and the Feathers of the efflicted area then just start falling out from the repeated insult/abrasion.


Maybe think about switching to a different kind of container for his pro-tem keep.


A large enough Cardboard Box, with Look-Outs cut at Eye level along one, front facing side...thin, sheer Cloth draped over the open top for LIght to filter in...is one very good way of keeping a wild, wacky, spirited, skittish, convelesing Dove, and, keeping them from hurting themselves ( which they are notorious for doing! ).

It is a "Secret Dove Cave" then...and they will tend to be less anxious ( aside from when you have to reach in, anyway...)




Keep it as high up as you can, too...elbow or shoulder high...


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Just wanted to post a new picture of his poop,i think this is much clearer.

View attachment 17190


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


What meds is she on presently?

And what dosage?


How is their pecking going, appetite?


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hello Phil, He is still on the Metronidazole .40ml once a day,today is the 7th day ,he was givin Azrithromycin suspention for the first 3 days i had him which was 9days ago.I still havent seen him eat on his own yet,im feeding him Kaytee out of the syring about 2 teaspoons twice a day and wild bird seeds.At this point I feel like he is depending on me to do all the work,but i cant figure out how to get him eating on his own.This morning I sat his carrier right outside my back door,through some crackers and bird seed in front of the carrier and sat inside on a chair watching out the window for about 2 hours while birds feed on the stuff i put out hoping that he will see them and start pecking,i dont know what else todo! He has come so far,but now i feel like we hit a wall with the eating on his own part! HHow does the poop i just posted look?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, the dropping looks quite good. You can stop the Metronidazole today, making it one full week of high dose treatment. I'll let Phil help you with the issue you are having with self-feeding, as he has done this many times, before and may have a number of strategies for you.

Nice job with this little one,

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Marsha, the dropping looks quite good. You can stop the Metronidazole today, making it one full week of high dose treatment. I'll let Phil help you with the issue you are having with self-feeding, as he has done this many times, before and may have a number of strategies for you.
> 
> Nice job with this little one,
> 
> Karyn


Thanks Karyn,but it was all the help from you and Phil that got him this far,I am lost when it comes to birds.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


May we please have some more poop images, done in better light?

In the last image, it looks like the Urates are still somewhat 'yellow', and, that there is also a paint-like portion of the Urates soaking in around the otherwise solid poop/urate combo.


As for her getting onto pecking...


Have you been working with her, with her on a Towel draped over your Lap as you sit?

A second small cloth over her, her facing right, so just her Head barely sticks out...

Small Seed Bowl right under her Beak...your right hand, pretend pecking with a crook'd index finger?


Might take ten or fifteen tries or five or ten minutes each...but, if done gently, soothing vocal narrative tones...it should work, she should begin pecking.


Kinda like this - 


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/young-dove---july-1/


Click on the first image to enlarge, then you can also read the Captions.


This little Dove was fairly trusting, and we had already done a lot of rehydrating and fussing ( and over 30 stitches, and whatever else ).

If they are nervous or skittish I will use a small cloth over them so it is only open on the end where their Head is, making a cover for their Head and for the Seed Bowl, and I will just let it be that way with maybe only a little incidental pretend-pecking from me.


What kind of Seeds do you have?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

And or like the first two images here - 


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/lap-towell-cave/


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> And or like the first two images here -
> 
> 
> http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/lap-towell-cave/


This one is the way i keep trying ,with the towel,he is to eager to get away without wrapping him in the towel,i als stick my hand in the carrier and use my finger to peck at the seed but he just warches me and walks around.Can you tell by any of the photos if he is an adult or just out of the nest,Im just thinking,If he is an adult he knows how to search for food,so is he just not wanting to?A flegling has to learn from watching parents,which is what i was thinking he was and may be why he is not pecking?I will get more pictures,there is some yellow around his poops,what does it mean?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


Well, you can't reach into their Cage or their 'Space' without it being taken as a tresspass or intimidation or invasive gesture...or that you are trying to comandeer or steal her Seeds.

Unless you have established a really good acquaintance, and ask first!


Lol...


Having them with you, on your lap, is a better way to go.

That way, it is 'your' Seeds and you are offering to share them.


I think your little Dove is a post fledgling, and, possibly they did not get enough time in with Dad for the learning to peck and forage.


Or, they got in enough to manage if all had gone well from there, but, illness and trauma of their predation-escape, and stress in general of conditions since then, could have caused them to sort of forget some of it.


It can take a while for them to come around.

Make sure whenever picking them up, that they are in a normal attitude and poise in your left Palm, just as if they were standing normally...right Hand softly cupped over their Back or shoulders or Head as well, so they do not launch off.


Their sense of balance is very easily insulted by being handled...so, keep this in mind.


My tiny 'Ground Dove' who had Canker and then got mauled pretty bad by a Dog ( a different Dove from the one in the album I posted the link to ) also had serious nutritional deficits, and a 'Rubbery' Beak.


For all I know this helped her have fewer broken Bones from the mauling!


But, it sure made it difficult to get the Meds into her...since I could not safely open her Beak without risking it breaking or bending out of being able to return.


So I had to win her over enough for her to volentarily nibble and accept the little portions of pills and so on from my fingers.


Oye...


They are 'WILD' and it takes what it takes to win enough of their trust or acceptance to do the things we need to do, and or to get them onto pecking if they are reluctant.


So, respect 'their' Cage space, their sense of balance, and how everything needs to be done slowly, and very softly....

Hands need to be always below their Eye level, unless cupping a second Hand over their Back or Head, of course.



Phil
Lv


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I was able to get more poop photos,what does the yellow mean?
View attachment 17192


View attachment 17193


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Well, the images are too small and somehow a little dim for me to see them well enough.



But...if there are 'yellow' tinted opaque thin liquids, and or also yellow tinted Urates which are paste, then there is still something amiss...something effecting her...and it may also be adversely effecting her appetite.


If all were well, she should be pretty hungry by now, wanting to catch-up on chow, and mighty determined to self feed just to get on with things!


Lol...


So...


Hmmmmmmmmm...



If you can try again, more of a true close-up of some fresh poops, better direct lighting, and for the image to also be able to be larger once posted?


How many of these poops in 24 hours these days?



Maybe a few general images of her also, fairly close up, so we can se her-herself fairly well?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Karyn just reminded me that 'KT' all by itself, can make for poops looking just as those, with no pathology responsible.


I never see this here, possibly because I always add a bunch of other things to the 'KT', so I am not personally familiar with it being able to effect the poops and urates in that way.


So, lets try this - 


Lets leave off the 'KT' for a few days, and, just hand feed or encourage to self feed, with small whole Seeds.

And, we can see then what we have for poops and urates.


Images of her-herself though, when you get a chance?



Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, as Phil says, if tomorrow morning you can hand feed him, like before, wrap him in the towel and take your time, a few seeds at a time until you get a good teaspoon or so into him, by later in the day we should get a better reading on their true disposition. When you start to see the dropping's color turn from the current color, to a more brownish/dark green, with white on them, that's what we want a good photo of.

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, as Phil says, if tomorrow morning you can hand feed him, like before, wrap him in the towel and take your time, a few seeds at a time until you get a good teaspoon or so into him, by later in the day we should get a better reading on their true disposition. When you start to see the color turn from the current color, to a more brownish/dark green, with white on them, that's what we want a good photo of.

Phil is right in wanting to be doubly careful before we sound the all clear signal, this will help a lot.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Yesterday i counted 5 poops within about 2,2 1/2 hours,he has been getting seeds inbetween the kaytee but not alot,today i came home and peeked in on him and i think he was eating seeds today,alot missing out of bowl,it looks like he ate the small seeds and left the sunflower looking ones so i refilled,and am keeping a close eye on how much is in there,he was standing in front of the bowl but quickly went to the back of the carrier as soon as he saw me.I will get more pictures,i am really having trouble getting good ones as you can see ,to every 10 i take i might get 2 that even look ok!So no more Kaytee for the next few days,and will post pics.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, thanks for the update, they are very shy about things, so no surprise that he won't let you watch him eat. Will await new photos.

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok I think I have a big problem,I alway take him out with the towel,and noticed a small spot on the wing that i previously post,but it is getting worse and I believe he is starting to pluck his feather,i think I mentioned i had pulled feathers from his mouth before,but here are some photos,ill have to post them in two seperate posts being im only alowed three at a time.
View attachment 17201


View attachment 17202


View attachment 17203


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

View attachment 17204


View attachment 17205


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,


Dove looks pretty good there in the images!


Ummmmm, far as the injury area where the Feathers had maybe been effected at their root...


As long as the wound is healing nicely, no signs of infection or odor or odd material present, nothing 'punky' or yucky present...all should be well, even if some of the Feathers which had been effected for their stemming from the area, may fall out to be replaced.


Can you post some additional, closer, better lighting, better focus images of the area in question?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Im sorry Phil,I think i may have confused you,the images i just posted of the bald spots are new on the wings,the injury that he origanly had is just above the tail feathers and doing good ,I think he is plucking the feathers on his wings,I just dont know why,the only thing i can think of is when I feed him wrapped in the towel he tries to get lose and tries flapping his wings in the towel,so i wonder if they are getting rubbed to much to where he is plucking them or could it be stress?He seems to be doing good except for this new problem with the bald spots.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh...

Well, the Feathers shown in the images are getting really messed up and may well be annoying her to where she is wanting them removed...and or, frequent abrasions can and will not only damage Feathers, but, cause them to start falling out of the effected area.

If this is from her 'scrunching' her shoulders in-the-Towel...maybe try not using the Towel.


If she is eating on her own now, maybe there is no need for wrapping her in a Towel anyway.


Make sense?


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, I certainly do think that the appearance of the wing certainly has a rubbing/abrasion type look to it and could certainly be caused by toweling him, even if your are being very careful and gently. What I would like to see you do is set him up with a water and seed dishes, with a good amount of seeds in it and spread some around its base as well and leave him alone for at least a day. He if off all meds right now, I think that his tail area could go a bit without any ointment at this stage, been about 10 days now, and let's see how just leaving him be for a bit goes, outside of monitoring him to make sure all is well.

I agree with Phil, that he looks well enough, has a good stance, there should be no harm in seeing how he does on his own at this point. It won't take long to see if he is eating because if he is eating and drinking he will be producing nice little raisin like droppings, if not, then small flat, dark green droppings, if the later is the case you can start back up hand feeding him again, but I hoping he will be alright on his own.

I see Phil is kind of thinking the same thing.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

As long as she is not messing up the white Paper Towels lining the Cage/Carrier bottom too much...it will be easy to see how many poops-a-day are being made. 

And just change out the Paper Towels each morning.


This is always the best way of reconning how much they are actually eating.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Karyn and Phil,I think thats what is going on,he tries to flap is wings in the towel so hard and my hands are right around the wings were they bald spots are but i was worried because of finding the feathers in his beak and was thinking he may have some skin disease or something causing him to do this or stress,so i guess what you are saying is he is may be plucking because of them being eritate or bent so i will definitly leave him alone for a few days to see and stop the ointment also,Thanks again marsha


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, yup, let's let this little one stand on his own two feet, so to speak. Just keep a close eye on him for good droppings and a decent amount and on her wings and tail to make sure things are uneventful in their recovery. Any questions/concerns, even small, please let us know.

Will wait for updated droppings photos.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

marsha88 said:


> Hi Karyn and Phil,I think thats what is going on,he tries to flap is wings in the towel so hard and my hands are right around the wings were they bald spots are but i was worried because of finding the feathers in his beak and was thinking he may have some skin disease or something causing him to do this or stress,so i guess what you are saying is he is may be plucking because of them being eritate or bent so i will definitly leave him alone for a few days to see and stop the ointment also,Thanks again marsha




Hi Marsha,




Yes...


Chafing like that, in damaging the Feathers, also effects the Feathers' attachment, and makes for an irritating sensation she would like to get taken care of, so, as her Body is releasing the damaged Feathers, she is also pulling them out to get rid of them.


No need for any ointment on those areas.


How is the original injury area doing?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I was kind of chuckling...when I have occasions of making 'Burrito-Birds' for tube feeds or other procedures, some of them DO indeed get into the shoulder 'scrunching' thing trying to wriggle out of it.

I admonish "No Scrunching!!! Stop that!!" Lol...and sometimes it works, sometimes it is Water-on-a-Duck's-Back.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Well you would think i was tring to kill him the way he gets sometimes,Ill tell ya this is hard stuff,and very nerveracking,one minute your excited for the little guy and the next worrying.Just before i got on hear i was looking at cameras,im ready to trow mine out the door,from trying to get decent pictures but ill keep trying!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Every individual is just that, and, some more than others.


Morning Doves are very high-strung and liable to act on impulse or to also really object to being handled.

Far as he is concerned, it is probably hardly any different than if you were trying to capture, eat and kill him!

Even if he knows better, or even if some-of-him knows better...all of his Natural impulses governing the rest-of-him will tend to rally as 'if' you were no better than a Cat catching and holding him.


I have to go through long, practiced, patient get-acquainted things usually to be able to manage them, and even then it is dicey sometimes.

If you have to set and splint a broken Leg or Wing, deal with a Pellet Gun perforation wound or other things, by yourself, they have to let you do it, they have to relax, lay on their side or back or whatever, or with me they do, so I can do the things which need to be done, so, I know how they are!

Same with sick ones, and their convelecent Cages, once they are feeling better...usually I have to turn all the Lights out, and sveltly, silently, remembering where everything is, walk over and change the feed and Water bowls in that way, in total darkness, and total silence, and then turn the lights back on, or...I would have an 'Exploding-Dove-Event'.


I warned you!


Lol...


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Karyn and Phil,I just wanted to update the both of you,Our little dove seems to be doing good,its been 2 days since stoping the Kaytee and his poops seem to be looking almost raisin looking like you mentiond with no more yellow,and i did get him out to check the wound area today and it is a very light pink color with scab over a little bit of it but it looks like a few little black poits poking out in a couple of ares that look like they might be feathers starting,i will get some pictures over the weekend,a friend lent me a very expensive camers that seems to take very good pics but the battery needs charged so i have to get the charger tomorrow,but i am very excited to see feathers and the area on the wing hasnt gotten any worse,hopfully it will start looking better , but now that the worst seems to be over I had a few questions that might seem silly but as you both know im never done this before so please excuse my ignorance,first how do i know when it is time for him to be set free,Im a little worried with winter just around the corner especially with his wound not fully healed yet,second,when the time comes were would be an ideal place for the little guy?Right now,after getting him this far i dont want to do anything that may make his chances of makeing it hard for him!Thanks again for all the help,support and patients!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, sounds like things are just about how they should be, nice raisin droppings, yellow gone, nice pink flesh with just a bit of scabbing still, no further wing abrasion and feathers starting to regrow. 

I have never rehabbed and released a Mourning Dove, Phil has, and few others here as well, so I'll let him guide you on the aspects involved in that. I did mention before, there are people/places that do rehabbing so it may be an idea to see if he could spend some time with other pre-release Doves, and be released with them, as I think this would be ideal, but we would have to find the right place/person for this for you.

Will wait for the new photos of the little guy and his droppings, we do like to look at droppings around here to confirm all is well .

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marsha,



Glad to hear...


Good going!


It is nice she has incipient Feathers already starting to sprout also!



I forgot where you live?



But yes, if there are any friendly Bird rehabbers you could connect with, it might be good for this little one to be able to spend a little while in a refresher-course of being with other Doves or assorted Wild Birds, before release.



Otherwise, all on all, release would be contemplated once all the new Feathers are pretty well in, and, one is sure of their overall Health and strength and flying ability...and Wild Social skills and general savvy, as it were.


What sort of space does she have there to be flying in, indoors?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Well I'm in the state of Delaware,and the only place with doors to keep him from going all over the house is bedrooms, empty garage,and possibly a barn but that is pretty big!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, to start, here is a list of rehabbers in Delaware. From my reading it seems a few do rehab themselves, but a number forward birds to http://www.tristatebird.org/ . This is just put some information in front of you, so you can see where you are in relationship to these people/places.

Delaware, Central

Delaware, Central region, Kent County (Dover)..... 302-698-1047 
Robin Coventry, stabilizer Tristate Bird Rescue and Research and DWRA 
[email protected] 
Wildlife Species: all birds and small mammals only

Delaware, Eastern

Delaware, Eastern region, New Castle County (Townsend)..... 302 378-4761 
Bonnie Kruch (director), Townsend wildlife rehabililtation center 
[email protected] 
Limitations: most birds go to Tri-State Bird Rescue 
Specialties/Knowledge: turtles 
Comments: we take approx. 900+ animals/year at each of 3 facilities

Delaware, Northern
Delaware, Northern region (Newark)..... 302-737-9543 
Tri-State Bird Rescue & Research, Inc. 
[email protected] 
Comments: fax 302-737-9562

Delaware, Northern region, New Castle County (Bear)..... 302-834-4604 
Hilary Taylor, wildlife rehabilitator, 
Delaware Wildlife Rehabilitators Association 
[email protected] 
Wildlife Species: No adult deer accepted

Delaware, Southern
Delaware, Southern region, Sussex County..... 302-629-3748 
Ms Lenny Truitt, Fur & Feathers Wildlife Rehabilitation Farm 
[email protected]

Delaware, Southeast

Delaware, Southeast region, Sussex County (Milford)..... 302-422-9262 
Nina Bunting (owner), Little Eden's Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitaiton Haven 
[email protected] or [email protected] 
Wildlife Species: Specialize in raccoons; I can put you in touch with other 
rehabbers that see other species

Delaware, Southwest

Deleware, Southwest region, Sussex County (Seaford)..... 302-629-3748 
Lenny Truitt, Delaware Wildlife Rehabilitation Assoc. 
[email protected]

Karyn


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for the info Karyn,I will have to start making calls tomorrow,here are some update pictures
























Right in the middle is a big scab that is actually getting ready to fall off,its loose on one side and you can start to see a couple of feathers starting to sprout,it looks even better in person,fresh pink skin around the scab.


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)




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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lookin' good!


She is quite a cutie too.


She'll probably be good-to-go in another Month or two.


You have to make sure her Feathers are good enough all round for flying and Water-repelling...strength and flying agility and reflexes for instant take offs and so on, also.


It is very common for me here to have various recovering or recovered ones for several Months before they get released...sometimes longer.


Looking good though! Good work Marsha!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Phil,it was was worth the time and effort!An thanks for all the help!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, the droppings look pretty well perfect and he looks well himself. As Phil says, he now just needs time to fully heal and have all his feathers get back into top condition and opportunities to exercise his flying abilities on an on going basis as well. Please keep us updated of your conversations with any of the places you contact.

One more thing, I think he may need handled one more time to give him a good bath to get all the oils out of his feathers from the ointment, ointments are very good in many ways, but the down side of them is the do get into the feathers necessitating their removal to allow the feathers to fluff and become waterproof again. 

You can pick up a small bottle of baby "no tears" shampoo and put 4-5 cap fulls into a cup and mix with a 4-5 onces of warm water or into a spray bottle (may need to mix a bit more for this way), like you would mist plants with (do not use any bottle that has been used for anything other than water). Get a small cloth and cover his head area, as he will be calmer of he can't see what is going on. You can then either pour the mix from the cup onto him and work it into his feathers or spray the mix into his feathers and work through with your fingers. 

I generally do this in the bathroom in case they get away and have the sink faucet flowing a nicely warm stream of water to rinse him well with, then use Kleenex to blot as much water as you can from him and return him to his cage. Once in his cage you can use a hair blow dryer to help him dry quicker, set both the heat and force to Medium, test it to the back of your hand to feel for distance and warmth, you want it warm, not feeling hot, and keep the blower moving, do not concentrate it in one spot on him, back and forth, back and forth.

Karyn


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i was thinking the same thing dobato, defiantly looks like tubby time!
as long as those wounds are healed up i would always leave a big enough bowl of water in the cage so he can bathe.
if his feathers are greasy from ointments you can also use regular dawn dish soap like you would use for any oil contaminated bird
wet him down real good and really soap him up and rinse with very hot (but not hot enough to burn him) water.
if he doesn't bathe himself on his own after that you can mist him with plain water once a day and that will encourage him to preen and care for his feathers to restore his waterproofing.
you can also add a little pure aloe juice to the water, very soothing to his skin, good for feathers and will aid in healing up any remaining injury


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## marsha88 (Sep 25, 2010)

I was wondering if he could or should be bathed! He is a tad greasy from the ointment like you said,well,I guess today will be bath day!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Marsha, make sure you bathe him all over, as best you can, it only takes a bit of ointment oil to interfere with his natural preen oils from waterproofing him again.

Karyn


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

if you still need to use antibiotic ointment on him you can change over to the cream kind, that's what i like to use on birds, doesn't muck up the feathers so much


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