# Would you accept a deal like this?



## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Hello everyone, 

I was wondering if you would accept a deal like this:

In the near future, I want to be breeding a surplus of young birds so I can send them off to other people to test on their race course in a competitive club. I would send a dozen (12) birds (mixed genders/mixed babies from different pairs) to one person. The person receiving the birds will train and race my birds with their own birds. In order to repay the trouble they go to, I will be willing to offer $50 which would cover the feed bill over the span of 4 months (training and every race they can participate in). 

At the end of the race season, it is highly unlikely that all 12 birds will still be there. There is a possibility of some being lost during training or the races. At the end of the race season, the birds will still be mine. If I want any young then I will take them for breeding purposes. Otherwise, the person I gave the birds to can do as they please with them. Sell/fly as OBs/ETC.

This is just a plan I have for the future in case the sport starts to die out in my area or if I really want to test my birds and make a name for myself.

My main question is, would you be fine with getting $50 to raise, train, and race a dozen young birds? Keep in mind that not all 12 birds may remain through training and that the person in charge will be responsible for paying for feed and race costs (Costs usually $1-$3 per bird to ship to a race I think?)


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Better try racing in 2013 and find what the expenses really are. Good Luck!


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

To make things a bit clearer, the $50 I would be giving the person is the same money I would be spending anyways on the dozen birds. I have a connection where I can get high quality pigeon mix from a supplier in Taiwan that is 66 pounds for $29. 2 bags would be a combined $58 and 2112 ounces, enough to feed the birds for roughly 150 days (which is longer than what training and the racing season would be). 

So if the competition in my area is lackluster, I could just breed the birds myself (what I would be doing anyways) and send the babies off to other peoples lofts where its better for them to race and more competitive for me to judge my breeders. The same money I would have spent myself racing the young birds, but be put towards giving to other people to race for me in a more competitive environment with no costs to the person flying for me, and a chance for them to win some races with my birds. 

I simply would just want any bird back which I wanted to breed from. Essentially I would spend around $500 on sending the young birds, the money to pay for their training, feed, and race entry. And an additional $400 a year breeding all of them. Anything under $1000 a year and I'd be pretty content with my situation. 

This isn't happening next year, or in 3 years. Its simply a plan for the future. My club is competitive right now but I don't want this hobby to disappear from my life so this idea would be a solution in the event that the competition did decrease.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Sorry, but I wouldn't come to your house and feed your birds and scrape your loft for four months for $50 if you lived across the street. If your time is worth nothing and the cost of feed will be nearly $50 then you have no money for gas to train them. If you lose half and send the other half to 8 races at $2/bird, well...........................it just wont pay. Maybe a really close friend will help you out or you can send 2 birds to the PT Classic for $32 plus \shipping......no better deal anywhere.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If the birds win you want them back and all we get is a lot of hard work and nothing to show for it. Would the person that gets the birds get to breed form them the first year?
Dave


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## korge7 (Nov 21, 2010)

This is only my opinion.


You have a good idea or plan but is way too early to start asking about it if your not ready now, like 2013. Is good to test your birds with an other loft or a dif rent part of the country, you will find out if is the birds or the handler the better part of the partnership. The deal is for someone to take on your birds, there has to be an equal gain to both of you. keep your money, pay for the shipping of the birds to the flyer ( Shipping cost and Box). 

1-Let them train and race the team. 2 Get monthly report from the trainer until the race season, when the races begins then get weekly club results from him and you would see your band numbers within the results. 3 At the end of the racing season with the race results, make a decision as to what bird you want to keep. 4 The trainer would have the opportunity to breed the bird(s) and keep a round for himself and then you pay for shipping and box back to your loft.

That's the only way I would do it.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

What is PT classic name and web site.


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## LOFT 532 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lovelace said:


> What is PT classic name and web site.




http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/2013-ptc-classic-atlanta-nomads-loft-official-thread-65132.html


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## LOFT 532 (Oct 30, 2012)

"I was wondering if you would accept a deal like this:"

NO


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if you would accept a deal like this:
> 
> ...


 The going rate for a typical "perch fee" is $100 per bird and sometimes more. Check out the various perch fees at your favorite One Loft events. The benefit to you in sending a bird there, is you will get a real good test of your birds. If they turn out to be pretty good, you could end up being reimbursed for all of your expenses. The birds can establish very easily how they compare in the case of the 2012 Winners Cup for example, how they stack up against 450 other birds from some of the top lofts in USA. 

Now compare that to your proposal. What exactly will you learn from such an excersise ? Say you send your 12 bird team to Mr. X, who is a member of a 25 member club. Will your test be of your birds relative to the loft you are sending to ? Yes, I suppose it will be. If he has YB team, he will be able to evaluate your 12 pigeon team compared to his maybe 30 or 40 birds. And maybe at the end of the season there may be 1 or 2 "good" ones in the bunch, which then of course you want shipped back. So, what did you learn if the "stars" for the 2013 YB season, were none of your 12, but from this fanciers best pair ? What if yours were much better then his, but he still only wins a few diplomas ? 

Now, if the guy is a real Combine Champ, competing against 100+ members, he's not going to want to be bothered with such an offer, not for $50, maybe not even a $1000. I would imagine that the fancier who is interested in such an offer, most likely would be new to the sport, and who is interested in obtaining pigeons to race. Most established breeders are interested in testing their own YB's and not particularly interested in "testing" essentially unproven stock from an unproven loft. Now, if one has a name like say a Mike Ganus, and if he called and said look I want to send you a dozen YB's off my National Ace's and Super Crack Champions, and just give me your opinion of the birds. Then I suspect more would agree out of curiosity, but then again, the question would arise as to why one should do the "work" by way testing, for someone else ? I am sure the response would be laughter, or the question asked as to why he simply doesn't just send them to One Loft race. The answer would seem to be, the person sending out the YB's wants to do so on the cheap. And the assumption will be made, that is what one does with very average birds. 

If they were in fact very exceptional high quality birds, fully capable of winning races in any Combine event, why wouldn't the owner race them himself ? The idea just comes off as, hey...I may have only average birds since I have only produced fairly average results. Please take my birds and see if you can achieve better results with a better loft, in a better loft location, with someone with above average management abilities. So, if you are successful in that regard, and a better pigeon fancier then you, accepts your birds, and with his better location, better training, and better loft, is able to get your birds to produce better results, then what will have you learned ?

That a better loft, loft location, handler, training, feed, etc can have an impact on racing results ? Or conversely, a worse location, with weak hands, your birds can also do average or worse ? Either way, the information you gain from this I doubt will be very helpful. Human nature being what it is, your proposal is flawed. If you want to get your YB's into other lofts to "test", then sell a number of YB kits at a reasonable cost, and then attempt to keep in touch. If you must resort to paying people to take your birds, it just sounds a bit desperate, but maybe it is just me. I personally wouldn't be interested in taking up valuable loft space, and not interested in the renting out perch space business based on the rental rates you are thinking about.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Gurbir
I send birds to fly with different fliers and clubs. There has to be something in it for the other flier. If you send him 12 birds he needs to get something out of it. Say the birds, money etc. I have a simple understanding with the guys that I fly with. The birds are theirs to keep. I can get birds off of them. Sometimes I can bring them back to breed if I keep giving them birds. I did fly with a guy who wanted to fly, but not breed birds. I supplied the birds, he flew them. I could bring the best back in, but would supply him with birds the next year. The understanding was that if wanted to start breeding that I supplied him with birds. The big thing here is that your birds need to be quality and benefit the flier on the race sheet. I would seek out a relationship with someone that will fly your birds that would benefit both of you.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Randy and Mark have the same approach and it works well for them, that is a good way to do it in my opinion.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

You need to have patience. I sent 20 birds to a guy and never heard from him again. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. Many times you send a guy birds and he fizzles out on you. Looses them, ends up not flying etc. I have six or eight guys that I know will fly them and fly them every race. You have no control. I have about 10 birds in my breeding program that have raced with others. I have a few race winners and some top 10 birds. It definitely helps move your program along. I know Mark had a few guys fizzle out on him this year. Mark flew my birds about 6 years ago. That is how we started trading birds. He has flown birds with my club also and I have sent birds back to him that have flown a whole season. Just be prepared to have some who you send birds not follow through.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

I would be willing to do it after i get affiliated with a club and more familiarized with racing and if something could be worked out as mentioned above.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

*It starts with good birds !!*

Here is what I have done. I have flown birds from 2 members here on this website. How I have done this is: I payed shipping and flew the birds as my own. The birds are mine when they arrive at my loft. During the season I keep in touch with email as the birds progress. At the end of the season I send a summery of how the birds have flown for me. My combine has a 2 bird clocking limit so they probaly will not be on the results unless they clock 1 or 2 at my loft. But I will have the clocking sheet from my clock for compairson. If I have good results The fallowing year I continue with updates at end of year. (there bird or there young) I like to brag. I still have birds from both members. 2 birds from 07 flying/breeding and a young bird from this season. The bird from this year won overall chamion bird and overall champion YB in my combine. The bird was not top on the race sheet but clocked every race it flew in at my loft 1 or 2.  It made my season very enjoyable. The only cost to me is shipping to get the birds and postage to brag.  I found this is a great way to learn record keeping of your flock. It is very helpfull in a sucessfull loft. And at the same time providing information to someone else about there birds. I'm still learning and I love it.


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

I would not do it for $50 if I did not get to keep the birds. If someone wanted to make this arrangement with me, I would probably ask about 10 times that. Remember you are not just feeding, you need to medicate, train, clean the loft, and ship for racing.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

raftree3 said:


> Sorry, but I wouldn't come to your house and feed your birds and scrape your loft for four months for $50 if you lived across the street. If your time is worth nothing and the cost of feed will be nearly $50 then you have no money for gas to train them. If you lose half and send the other half to 8 races at $2/bird, well...........................it just wont pay. Maybe a really close friend will help you out or you can send 2 birds to the PT Classic for $32 plus \shipping......no better deal anywhere.


I think you have a misunderstanding with my idea. I will be sending the birds to the person. They will not be coming to my house to feed/scrape my loft for 4 months. They will be feeding my birds at their house and scraping the same loft they would be scraping for their own birds as well. 

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far! This isn't something thats happening in a year or two. This is a long term plan in case the hobby dies out around where I live. This is a threat to everyone that races pigeons (hobby not being active in the area you live in, resulting in poor competition to test your birds in). I just want to have a back up plan because I'd be more confident in sending birds to a one loft race who have parents that have performed well in competitive clubs rather than just a club with a few members. 

And as mentioned, this is just a plan. I will modify it so that it benefits both myself and the other fancier. If $50 is too low, I will be willing to pay $75 or $100. But the fancier really only has to do very little more work than they would be doing anyways. They feed their own young birds, loft fly them, road train them, and clean the loft anyways. Only difference is that they would be carrying an extra crate of pigeons every time they road train. And all the costs in raising the young birds would be covered by me.

At the end of the race season, I'll let the other fancier keep any birds he wants with the promise that if I ever need any bird for breeding in the future, I could borrow it at no cost. 

Realistically, I would be spending around $500 (approximately) on feeding, training, and racing around 48 young birds anyways. So why not just split that money up into $125 going to each flier in a competitive club through out North America and give them 12 birds to fly each. 

I know everyone has their own ways of flying, but I would just be more confident in knowing the birds I'm sending to a one loft race and paying $300 a piece for each one I send is offspring from a pair whose youngsters have performed well in a competitive club before. 

I could even send 48 off to fliers and fly another 48 at home. This is a manageable number and would cost me around $500-$600 and this would be overspending in my opinion by at least $100. I can train and fly those youngsters in races locally. 

Spending roughly $500 at home and $500 given to 4 different people across North America would give me 5 testing grounds in different conditions and in different terrain and under 5 different training styles. Send babies to a one loft races from a pair whose babies performed consistently and the best in all 5 scenarios. 

I'm planning to making pigeon racing into a big commitment of mine in the future because I plan to use racing pigeons as therapy animals. I will have a surplus of breeding pairs in my system. My personal pairs and the pairs used in each location that runs my therapy program. I think I could really benefit from using this method and would let me test a lot of young birds at a good price.

Because of the therapy programs I'm working on, I'm willing to commit $2000 -$2500 a year on this plan I have. This would be a lot more than I would be using though but just in case I need the funds for something. 

At the end of the day, I think $125 to each fancier that fly's my birds is a good deal. 


$125 covers the feed bill and race costs
The fancier gets to keep all the birds that survive the race season and can either breed from them or fly them in OB races, but cannot sell them off without consulting with me first (won't be a big deal)
The fancier that trains my birds can benefit from their results (winning them races, diplomas, etc) and gives them a new blood to test on the race course
Out of the $125 I give, the fancier may even have some funds left over to buy feed for their own birds
The fancier can breed from my young birds if he/she wants to


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm just looking for opinions here so feel free to say anything! If you don't think $125 and all of the other perks that would be offered don't fit well, then feel free to let me know!

Keep in mind that the birds will not be "bad" birds. I'm going to do a lot of selective breeding and in the next couple of years, develop a good selection of quality breeders. So the young birds would have a positive effect to them. They would be some birds that can help the fancier too in some way. 

This project would not be difficult to do in Canada (no shopping of bird restrictions and I also know trucking companies that could take the birds from the West Coast to Ontario (big racing pigeon hub in Canada) so Canada is no problem.

For the States, I know a person that is involved in importing/exporting live eggs. So worst comes to worst and shipping costs too much, I will just breed and get the eggs from the breeders on the Canadian side and put the eggs under foster parents on the US side. Breed the YB's there and then send them off to people in America. The only problem with this is having a loft on the US side and I can just start my therapy program in Washington State as well. Have the participants in those programs taking care of the breeders as part of their therapy and the US/Canada border is only a 10 minute drive from my house. I could even drive to the other loft 3 times a week and also work with the therapy program.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)




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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I would say: Here please fly these for me, if you want to get rid of them I'd like them back, if they do well for you I would like some youngsters off of them, or maybe a chance to borrow it if thats ok.

I think if you say it like that then you do not even need to give anyone any money. And it would cost at least $1,200 to race a young bird series with 30 pigeons. (I did my math). 

What you could do is borrow the pigeon breed it like you want, get the eggs put it under fosters, and then give it back to the person.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

in my opinion 12 bird is a lot... It will take up a lot of space if u dont have a big loft..Some clubs only let u have a 20 bird shipping limit. So therefore it limits flying ur own birds..
If u want to do it like what u say might as well think of it as a partnership loft and pay half of the expenses.. shipping fees, gas, feed, and everything . its not cheap to train and race pigeons...
If u just want to see how good ur pigeons are.. train them and fly them urself and evaluate them urself. Toss them far and in any kind of weather by themselves and see what they can do and how fast they fly in all condition... a normal pigeon flys about 45 miles per hour with that u can calculate how good ur pigeon is...
U dont need to fly ur bird in a club to send ur birds to one loft races..The clubs dont have the same birds that are in the one loft races..That is my opinion and i do agree with warren with what he wrote...


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

That's pretty much what I'm hoping to do. The birds the property of the person after the racing season, and I can only borrow it for breeding purposes temporarily. 

I was wondering how you came up with the $1,200 cost to race 30 pigeons? $1,200 would be cut in half because I would only be giving 12 pigeons not 30. So $600 to train, feed, and race the 12 young birds?

I've estimated it would only cost maybe 2.5 bags of feed to feed all 12. Which would be around $70. And then the rest of the $55 could be used for each pigeons entry fee to a race. Usually I've seen it cost anywhere from $1-$2.50 to ship a young bird to a club race I think. 

Keep in mind that some of the 12 ybs will be lost in training and racing so they won't have much of a cost. Plus the person will be road training his birds anyway. So why not carry 1 one pigeon crate and release it with the others. There is no cost to the fancier other than the time it would take to crate them which isn't a whole lot for 12 birds. Same goes for feeding - he would be feeding his own birds anyways. The feed cost/race cost is covered by me. The fancier would be paying the larger start up fee for racing young birds anyways so why not fly more young birds from a different lineage?


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Also, not every single bird out of the 12 would be race ready. So its not like it will be only my birds being sent to the races. This would help with the race shipping limit some clubs have.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

i dont think any body would do it for 50 bucks unless u pay for half the expenses.. which would be about 600 dollars then u can send 12 birds or so and let the guy manage and race ur birds.. 
Doesnt matter if its ur bird or his.. the fact is there are more birds.. more birds mean more work and money..More time to catch, more time to feed, more time to train and more baskets..
Think of it like having a kid.. One kid that u have will be another mouth to feed and expense to buy so therefore it doubles the expense as vs one kid...


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Like I said earlier.....race in 2013, then you'll have a better idea of real world expense and effort. I hope things work out for your plan but at this point you have nothing I want and what little money you offer makes it seem that whatever I could provide has little value. So once again I'd pass.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I spent about $38-$46 on feed a month starting March and going to October when the races end thats about $304-368.

Vitamins lets says $20.

Vaccines around $90.

Chip bands are $2.25 a bird.

Gas at least $500, most likely a lot more.

Shipping the YB series $225 (my clubs price).

Add that all up and that is about $1,200. I started off with 36 pigeons in March and had 26 at the end of the season.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Plus you have to remember the work, time, and effort put in in cleaning and catching birds. 

I scrape my loft everyday, feed twice, change water, change grit every other day. During training catching the birds and crating them, even in the dark would take me at least 20-30 minutes. 

I like to do it around 4 AM for the first 20 or so tosses as I think it is very important for a bird to sleep on its perch so I don't crate at night but prefer the morning darkness instead.


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## LOFT 532 (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm in the market for a hot tub and I'd bet you are too??? If you need help making your mind up on the brand your going to be satisfied with how about you buy one and ship it to me, I'll use it and tell you if it's any good. Your free to have it back after I use it for a season. If.... I feel the brand is not going to satisfy you just send me another.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Some people are getting a bit uptight about this idea, but that is just what this is right now - an idea. I'm sure I can find people out there in competitive clubs that won't have a big deal with training/racing 12 more birds or so if I'm willing to help with the costs, even if its up to $200 given to each fancier. There will always be people that will say no even if you offer $200 a bird. But there are probably an equal amount of people out there that would be willing to help to test my birds for me as long as I pay the costs and they are able to use any specimen for breeding. We all make our own individual choices of how to get the best bird out there in the one loft race, this is just my choice on how I wish to test my birds in 5 different race courses before sending their siblings to one loft races. I simply was wondering what kind of other deal I could give the fancier which would make them want to fly my YBs every year and I got some good ideas from people and also thought of some of my own while reading these posts. 

I may not have the birds right now which might be considered quality birds, but what I do have is my age (only 19) and a brain (fairly productive one). So if I make the right moves and know the right people, I think it could work.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

http://www.pigeon.org/beginnerscorner.htm

I think some thing like this would be a good idea.
Dave


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestion Dave! That is a great idea. It would help me to expand on the therapy program I am working on as well. Basically the participants in the therapy program (whether it be substance abuse, youth-at-risk, young offenders, those suffering from mood and emotional disorders, anti-social personality disorder, etc) would be using the birds to help them through their treatment process. 

The program would run the course of 1 breeding season and 1 flying season before evaluating if it was effective in helping. 
Evidently, the participants would be using birds given to them by myself (late breds off of my best pairs would be the breeders, and their babies would be the YB's they fly). So in simple terms, they would be testing my breeders and their youngsters on the race course. The participating individuals would race the birds out of the club that is local to them and use a manual clock. Manual clock would be a lot less expensive and more effective in a situation where racing pigeons are being used as therapy animals (the more interaction between the participants and the birds, the better it is). 

3 main positive outcomes from this therapy program

1. Some participants may benefit from the therapy program and better their lives.
2. Promotes the sport (I'm sure the media will pick up on it, plus I can write articles for the news papers and other promotions)
3. I get to test more of my stock


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if you would accept a deal like this:
> 
> ...


Here's a suggestion. Send them to our band race:

http://www.twincityconcourse.us/2012 GOLD Band info.htm

1) The bands are cheap ($25 A band; $25x12= $300 for everything vs. paying $600, the cost of covering half a handler's expensive) 
2) You get to see the birds' performance
3) You can win some $$$ =D


It don't necessary have to be our band race. It could be any band race. Just that I got to it first, hahaha =D. Good luck, Gurbir Brar B.C.! Wish you and your club/combine the best.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Anoter one.LBRA auction race.Bands-Free-maximum 5 per flyer,chance to win a nice purse, chance to test and see your birds peformance,But the handler gets to Keep your birds.Walt will be posting later for who wants on the band list.Link:
http://www.lindenhursthpc.com/Special_Races.php


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

The gold band races also seem like a good idea! I guess I will just continue with my breeding plan and work towards building consistent/quality breeders and then send their young off to options like these. Thanks for the ideas so far!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

A_Smith said:


> Here is what I have done. I have flown birds from 2 members here on this website. How I have done this is: I payed shipping and flew the birds as my own. The birds are mine when they arrive at my loft. During the season I keep in touch with email as the birds progress. At the end of the season I send a summery of how the birds have flown for me. My combine has a 2 bird clocking limit so they probaly will not be on the results unless they clock 1 or 2 at my loft. But I will have the clocking sheet from my clock for compairson. If I have good results The following year I continue with updates at end of year. (there bird or there young) I like to brag. I still have birds from both members. 2 birds from 07 flying/breeding and a young bird from this season. The bird from this year won overall champion bird and overall champion YB in my combine.  It made my season very enjoyable. The only cost to me is shipping to get the birds and postage to brag.  I found this is a great way to learn record keeping of your flock. It is very helpfull in a sucessfull loft. And at the same time providing information to someone else about there birds. I'm still learning and I love it.



AH.... Come on AL, don't be bashful 

You can tell them that "Overall Champion Bird" *2522 IF 2012 FOYS *was from Renee AKA Lovebirds... I'm not ashamed how that bird did....
The bird clocked every race it flew, in at Your loft #1 or #2. 

Go ahead and brag a little .... you deserve it. I would.... LOL

I hope 2522 does Good for you in Old Birds next year.

Al have a great Holiday


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Congrats Renee as the breeder,and A Smith as the handler and recipient of them Great results!.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One thing I also do is make a deal with those who fly my birds. If the birds do well, I try and take a baby off of the birds to bring back to breed from. My logic here is that if the bird flies well that the flier will breed it with his best birds. This will give you genetic diversity without taking too much of a chance. The bird is 1/2 yours off a winner. I have brought two birds back to the breeding program, both hens. One has proven herself a good breeder in three years the other flew very well and I am putting her into the breeding program this year. One way to indirectly get your birds back, through their offspring. Plus I still get reports on the birds they kept to breed from.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Also if Renee is still racing she can trade with Al and bring offspring back to her loft to try them out. Without flying on your own you need to be creative on your selection methods.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Also if Renee is still racing she can trade with Al and bring offspring back to her loft to try them out. Without flying on your own you need to be creative on your selection methods.


I quit racing after YB 2009 and will not race again....  We got rid of most of our breeders (passed them on to new flyers) and just kept a few breeders.
I have a loft full of Old Bird Racers and they free fly now and are enjoying retirement.
The birds that I sent Alan are his to keep with no strings attached. I hope he does good with 2522 in the future, and keeps me informed with his progress.
That is the part of the Sport, helping beginners/others out. 
May everyone have a wonderful holiday.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Great point you brought up Randy! 

I'm not going to go swimming in the deep end just yet. I'll make sure I'm well organized, have quality breeders, and have a waiver made basically which states some of the privileges I can enjoy from the YB I give to someone to fly, and what they can gain from the bird as well.

I want good relations with the people I'm working with, so evidently I want the people flying my birds to gain something from it. If you keep your people happy, that is the first step towards becoming a stronger competitor in the races.

Just speculating right now, but at the very most I'd like to breed from 16-20 pairs of breeders. 

If I get around 100 young birds, 50 young birds will be sent off to other lofts to fly. 

Key Areas:

- Ontario region (highest level of pigeon racing in Canada)
- High activity clubs in the states (competitive clubs)


I know some people believe that why should you send your birds to other people and let them gain from the results? But my concern isn't to win at the club level. It is a way to truly test what I have and then send the best of the best to the one loft races.


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