# i need urgent help!!!



## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

I have been noticing since the past couple of days one of my pigeon is not as quick and alert as other. Seems like hes sick because. What do I need to do to find out what's wrong with him????


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please give us more information. 
Is the pigeon eating? Is the pigeon drinking? How old?
Is the pigeon male of female?
Where do you keep the pigeon?
Anything else that would be helpful.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

To be honest i did'nt really check if hes eating i think hes a male and probably 2 yrs old... should i seperate him from other birds????


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i have a cage with a ply wood floor in my back yard. I clean my cage monthy cage is pretty much open from everywhere for vantilation.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

texasmk4 said:


> To be honest i did'nt really check if hes eating i think hes a male and probably 2 yrs old... *should i seperate him from other birds*????


Yes, if you suspect he's ill, isolate him. 
You need to make sure he's drinking enough. They can become dehydrated rapidly.

Is he fluffed? What are his droppings like? 

Cindy


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

he's eating i seperated him today. he's not flying i took him out of the cage and let him go on the grass he went on the side and set down i grabbed him and inspected him he seems a little light he was a healthy bird. can someone please help me and tell me what is wrong with him


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Yes, if you suspect he's ill, isolate him.
> You need to make sure he's drinking enough. They can become dehydrated rapidly.
> 
> Is he fluffed? What are his droppings like?
> ...


Please respond to Cindy's questions. We don't have enough information to tell you what the problem is.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i did'nt check his dropping I think hes a little fluffed i am going to check his dropping today since I took him out of the cage..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Is he drinking?
Can you feel food in his crop?
You said you separated him from the other birds, where are you keeping him?
If he is fluffed you need to keep him warm.
Have you looked inside his mouth?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

hes outside on the grass in my back yard i saw him picking something from the grass he's probably eating grass and yes he's drinking water i gave all my birds worm medication this morning he was drinking it too. he did eat when i fed my birds.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Eating grass isn't enough.
Can you feel seed in his crop?
What does his poop look like?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

*pics of poop and bird*

i am inserting pics of the bird and his poop . its green color disregard the other black stuff since it was already there.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, whatever it is, his liver is involved. You need to get that bird on Metronidazole (Flagyl) and Enrofloxacin (Baytril) as soon as possible or you're probably going to lose him. I take it that you don't have those things or you wouldn't be asking for help. Where are you?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Do you have meds on hand and if not, is there someone local as in a fancier or grain store that you can get meds from? If yes to having some on hand, what are they? If not any of these scenarios, can
you purchase meds from the pigeon supply houses i.e. call in the morning and 
have it overnighted?

fp


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

I am in Houston and i do have a feed supply store where i buy all my pigeon nutritions i.e food and grain. Does anyone know what caused my pigeon this problem? also do i need to purchase METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl) and Enrofloxacin??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And another thing--this might go through your loft so you're probably going to want to get enough of that stuff (medications) to manage your loft. You should consider taking this bird to a vet to get those meds just for it and then we'll give you links so that you can order those things online and in bulk. There are other tricks to loft management so that you can avoid this kind of thing but right now you've got a fairly sick bird. 

It's the greenish color of the part that should be white that makes me suspect liver involvement. When they get sick with some forms of Paratyphoid (actually Salmonellosis), it can give them the equivalent of Hepatitis. They don't turn yellow because they can't make Bilirubin. What they make is a chemical called Biliverdin and when it starts affecting the color of the urates (normally the white part of pigeon poop) towards green, it's called Biliverdinuria.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Is the store open today? Do they carry Metronidazole and Baytril?

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it could have come from mouse droppings. The kind of Salmonellosis that pigeons usually get is called Salmonella Typhimurium (var. Copenhagen). The "-murium" part is Latin for "mouse". They carry it and are the bane of pigeon fanciers.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link to the Pigeon Supply Houses that is listed in our Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

How many birds do you have??

Have you isolated this bird? You should and also get it on a heating pad set
to low and covered w/towels:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

Our Resource section in general:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

fp


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

they are closed on sundays, i seperated the bird from others I am going to call the feed store guys and ask them if they have the above medication you guys suggested. I have about 12 birds earlier today i sprayed sven dust powder around the loft. By the way thanks for all the information you guys provided do I have to give my other pigeon the medication or not until i see the symptoms???


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

You need to thoroughly wash the loft area w/a solution of 1/2 cup of Bleach
to a Gallon of water and let it dry before allowing the birds back in. Same w/all
of the feeding utensils, etc.

I take it this isnt' a new bird? Probably best to loft medicate to be on the safe
side, but I'd give another thorough cleaning once well into the loft treatment to 
be sure you've gotten it in the environment there. Also need to double check
for any areas that mice or rats can come in through in the loft.

If the grain store doesn't carry it you can overnight it via a phone order w/the
closest supply house which for you I think would be Global's.

fp


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

Do i need Baytril tablets or liquid??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It would also be nice to give your sick bird something soft, like a towel, to put underneath him. Keep him warm. Food and water available.
It also wopuld be a good idea to pick up some hand feeding formula because I think you are going to need to hand feed the sick one. 
He looks pretty miserable.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i am unable to find Baytril at global you think they migh tbe out of stock?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

To me, the Enroxil 10% solution on here is the best deal:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/para_sal/index.html

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

They may be out of stock or not carrying it anymore. I purchased Enrofloxan 10% from Foy's and am very happy w/it. This comes w/manufacturer's label so
you know what the specific expiration date is as opposed to the supply house 
bottling themselves wtheir label as they sometimes do.

Here's the link from Foy's for Spartrix:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker/index.html

If you call instead of ordering on the internet you'll probably be able to get
expedited shipping.

fp


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

guys thanks for all your help i checked this morning and the bird has passed away. ;( i know its my fault i should have posted pics when i posted my thread. Now i know what i need to save my birds. so all i need is the two medication up above


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

the feed store located in my area has Fishzole and Amoxicillin the store guy says Amoxicillin is good for Salmonella treatment is it true??? can I use those 2 as a treatment instead of Metronidazole & Baytrill since the feed store does carry it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

FishZole IS Metronidazole. Amoxicillin will treat Paratyphoid when it's restricted to the intestinal tract. You usually see bad diarrhea with that. Paratyphoid comes in many forms depending on the strain. My memory's a tad foggy but I seem to remembe that at least one book labels them as the: 1) Enteric (in the gut); 2) Organ (liver, etc.); 3) Neurological (they start doing various spasms); and 4) Arthritic (joints start swelling, usually one leg or one wing joint but sometimes more). When you see other presentations than the Enteric, it's time to head towards Baytril except in nestlings where usually a Trimethoprim-Sulfa combo (tradenames like "Bactrim" and a bunch of other ones) are preferred.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, the reason why Paratyphoid is so varied is because some of the strains are virulent enough to penetrate the intestines and get into the bloodstream in fairly short order, sometimes without causing the particularly nasty enteritis. You just never know until it hits you.

Another management means is vaccinations which means that you need to give shots to all your birds periodically. That doesn't prevent them from getting the disease--it just keeps them from dying of it. The vaccine of choice of "Sal-Bac" and many of those online pigeon supply houses carry it and will send it out to you. They generally send vaccines overnight and in chilled, insulated boxes so that's one you need to arrange to do with some planning.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

so my best bet it Metronidazole and Baytril? do i need spartix??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Spartrix is a different medication than the Metronidazole, although in the same family. If all you're worried about is canker, Spartrix is fine, maybe even better than Metronidazole. Met has some added benefits for other things though that make it a nice to have around for other things. If your feed store is selling "FishZole", it's probably pretty cheap, too. I tend towards the Met.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

Metronidazole, what is more effective powder or tablet or liquid??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I have the tablets (250 milligrams). I didn't realize that FishZole was marketed any other way. Seems like it's usually a bottle of 100 tablets. To my way of thinking, that's usually the best deal (more for your money) and it's probably the means of storage with the most longevity.

However, you have to understand that there is a difference between dosing your entire flock and dosing single sick birds at a time. I go towards the bird-by-bird approach because I'm a rehabber. Metronidazole tablets in such an instance would be a pain to administer to a large loft. In such a case, a powder that may be added to the water (Metronidazole tablets don't suspend well in the water) would normally be much better if you're going to treat the entire loft at a time.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can usually look at the cost-per-milligram of actual medication by way of figuring out how much pure drug is in the package that you're contemplating buying versus the cost. Sometimes, it's an extreme difference. If money is tight, it matters more than the aggravation of dosing the birds separately versus the convenience of dosing them all through the waterer. That's up to you to figure out what works best for you.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

Metronidazole tablets in such an instance would be a pain to administer to a large loft. 


how do you administer tablets????? do you break the tablets and force it in their mouth??


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

texasmk4 said:


> guys thanks for all your help i checked this morning and the bird has passed away. ;( i know its my fault i should have posted pics when i posted my thread. Now i know what i need to save my birds. so all i need is the two medication up above



I'm sorry you lost the bird.

you can use a general treatment/prevention, if your birds are not showing any signs of the canker.

This product basically treats and helps prevent canker, cocci, and worms for flock treatment, which are common diseases in pigeons. 

http://www.globalpigeon.com/productimages/fullimg/IMG1124195652.jpg


However, if you have any other birds who actually have canker, you still need to isolate and treat with the medicine mentioned.

It would be best to also start a regular prevention program with added nutrition also.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

texasmk4 said:


> Metronidazole tablets in such an instance would be a pain to administer to a large loft.
> 
> how do you administer tablets????? do you break the tablets and force it in their mouth??


It would depend on the strength of the tablets (how many mg of metronidazole in each). If the strength is high, you may need to dissolve the tablets in water in order to be able to give the proper amount to each bird. It is often difficult to get an accurate dose by cutting or breaking tablets into pieces.

If you were to give tablets or pieces of them, you would GENTLY open the beak and place the tablet at the back of the mouth and let the bird swallow.

Terry


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

thank you very much terry... i think i'll order the Flagyl Liquid Metronidazole instead of tablets and powder what do you think??


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