# Problem with the legs of a young dove. Please help!



## Timp (Jun 8, 2013)

First of all, I am from Hungary, and though I know there supposed to exist vets here too who take care of pidgeons, I have no idea how to find any. Shelters don't take doves here so getting some professional care for my bird is nearly impossible. 

But if any of you know a vet nearby, I am open for suggestions! 

So, my problem:
About a good 2-3 weeks ago my cat had brought in a young collared dove. She was alive, and looked healthy; it seemed the cat caught her as she was trying to learn to fly. I think she was about 16-20 days old - with no collar yet. 
I saved her from the cat, gave her minced corn mixed with cottage cheese and since I never had a bird before, I also don't have a cage, I placed her into a cat carrier box. Back then she fitted in it just fine.

My bird grew up since then pretty nicely, and I think even her collar is begining to show now, but about 5 days ago she started to act a bit strange.
Since I want to set her free once she learns to fly well enough, I let her out in my room from her box every day so she could try to practice with her wings, safe from the cat, but she just doesn't seem to want to fly more then about 0.5-1 meter. She was usually just running around on the floor until now. 
But in the past 5-7 day we noticed that she was acting odd: she seemed to walk with a bit of a limp on her left foot, and she seemed to use her left wing more carefully too. Like when she is hissing at me (luckily, she isn't too tame), she would back away from me, showing her right side to me, and raise her right wing, while puffing herself up - but not the left one. First I thought her wing was hurting, but the day before yesterday, as she was trying to fly up to my desk, and her wings worked just fine, but the bird just couldn't catch the side of the desk she was aiming for, and instead just skimmed over it, crashing into the desk itself. It was asif her legs didn't work properly. 
By today it seems she can't use her legs at all. She is just sitting in her cage, and when I take her out she is just beating with her wings, and is getting herself around by crawling on her stomach, as if she couldn't stand up at all, or use her fingers to take a hold of herself. she used to grab my fingers when I took her in my hands before, but now nothing.

The strange thing is, the bird doesn't seem to be ill otherwise. For 3 weeks she couldn't meet another animal, so I doubt this would be an illness - unless caught it from us, humans, if that is possible. She is also curious and cautious, she is cleaning her feathers frequently, eats well and just generally looks like a happy if somewath terrified dove. In every respect she seems to be healthy, except for her legs.
Could she break them somehow when she fell over the desk? Or hurt them before (she had some flying accidents, when she couldn't reach what she was aiming for, and once tried to fly through the window, but it was closed :/ ). To me it seemed like she fell more on her pouch, but I don't know what to think now. or could she have hurt her spine?
Her beak seems to be hard, and I fed her cottage cheese to make sure she gets enough calcium. 

One last thing I can think of is that despite that I tried to let her out as much as i could she has been spending most of her days just sitting in a corner, and that cat carrier box is getting a bit small for her, so could that be her leg muscles grew too weak from the too little usage? Is there some way I could check if they were broken, without hurting her? Or what other signs should I watch out for, that could suggest some other illness?

The problem is, if her legs won't start to work, I won't be able to let her go free, but I can't really keep her either.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

First thought, as it's pretty late here in the UK, is that she may be suffering from either nerve damage OR a calcium deficiency.

We have rescued a few young collared doves in the past who could not stand or walk, and we found that they had lacked calcium. I'm really not sure about the cottage cheese - dairy products are certainly not good for pigeons and doves, as they do not digest them properly. I would suggest that she needs a concentrated supplement. It needs to be CALCIUM + VITAMIN D3. It is given directly into the bird's beak/mouth at the dosage recommended on the container, not just in water. It may be available in pet stores, but if not are you able to order products online from the UK or Europe? I think we can work out how you can obtain it, if you cannot get it in a store.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

She could have splayed her leg from the hip due to Ca deficiency? Can you look how is she sitting on the leg. My first pigeon jumped when it was about 1 month old from 3 feet high on the tile. I found him that he could not walk. He splayed the leg from the hip. I bandaged the legs together ( with band aid tape) from the ankle to below the knee/ elbow for 5 days and put him on Ca & d3.
You can give human vit. Usually cut in pieces to get 20 mg and give every day 1 piece by opening her beak, in the back of her throat ( she will swallow it). Usually this works with pigeons; but i don't think it's different with collar doves.

She also could have hurt a nerve when she smashed into the window. That's what happen with most of birds that get spine injury. For that she needs to rest as much as possible and have vitamins. Bird vitamin can be found in Hungary at pet store for parrots or other birds. You follow the instructions of the vit. most dissolve in the water. Make sure it has Ca & D3 AND vit B.

You can make from a towel a round shape like a donut and place her rest in the middle of it, with towel around her.

You do provide her seeds? Did she started to eat seeds?

The dove raising one wing and hissing it's normal behavior. She became territorial.

Do not feet cheese anymore. Milk is not made for birds. 

Thank you for taking good care and saving her life. Glad the cat brought her to you. May be you can put a bell on the cat collar. That way birds may be safer and have time to fly.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Sounds like it could be paratyphoid Sometimez paratyphoid affects only the legs and sometimes it affexts the wings and sometimes both.. I suggest excellent nutrition and sunlight and a calm low stress environment.. Sesamee seeds have lots of calcium also give small bits of raw hull sunflower and small bits of raw peNuts. and besure to give a mix of dove seed! No cheese!!!


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Also you need a basic hospital cage equipped with a low power heat pad and a clamp on 60watt bulb. and make sure she can retreat from the light!


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## Timp (Jun 8, 2013)

Thank you all for the help! I appreciate it, and so does my bird, I am sure! 

I need to go to work now, so I can only quickly answer your questions. I will go to the pet shops, to see if they sell vitamins for birds, but I think they must. Many people keeps parots. But even if I can't find any, I have some liquid calcium at home, made for humans against allergic shocks, and I think I can divide it up and mix it in her water. 

I didn't know they can't digest milk - we raise freshly hatched chickens on this mixture and they grow up fine, but I suppose doves may be more fragile. 

Dima: It doesn't look like her legs were splayed, or at least it isn't visible. She keeps them under herself just like before, but I don't know much about pidgeon anatomy, so I am not sure I would notice if it was splayed. Didn't your bird keep it strangely? Away from his/her body?

Yes, she does eat seeds. I give her minced corn. I tried sunflower seeds before but she didn't like it and usually just left it there. I can try giving her sesame seeds, and see if she likes it. Or would parrot food work for doves too? 

I tried to make her a nest like you described but she was too afraid of it to use it.

Superfly: I too was thinking that it may be some paralytic illnes, but as i wrote, she has been with us for about least a month now, and she started to show these signs only now. Is that possible?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree with John that it is either from injury or a calcium and D3 deficiency.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

I had a pair of pigeons that had similar symptoms after they became malnourished from feeding large babies in winter without much sun. The parents recovered fully after I took over feeding. Search dove seed online to see what they contain. Some chicken grits and baby chick grits have lots of calcium. Sesame has lots of calcium. I give fresh grit and sesame to my hens when they are about to lau. They quickly gobble it up. Also try some finely chopped lettuce or other greens.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Natural sourced of calcium are best. Doves need small grit. I have a couple of kinds of oyster shell grit. On is powdered the other is a bit more chunky. Birds need hard grit to grind up seeds they eat in their gizzards. The gizzard is pretty amazing.. Birds get sick due to stress malnutrition is a big stress. Birds need sun to metabolize some nutrients. When my adult pigeons showed paralytic symptoms of paratyphoid I was caring for a feral who had paratyphoid. None of my other birds showed signs of illness only the two parents that were stressed from feeding their large babies.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

it's pretty easy to see if there is injury to the legs just look at them. If the bones are in place and there is no swelling it is not likely that there is injury. it is good not to handle doves because you can scare wild birds to death. I t is also not likely that a bird plying at low speed indoors could injure both legs so bad that she crawls with her wings. Crawling with the wings is a common symtom of paratyphoid.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Baytril knocks out paratyphoid but often symptoms disappear with good nutrition warmth and light.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I believe one would see definite symptoms that apply to paratyphoid, as well as those which can equally apply to much simpler problems. Given that the bird is a young Eurasian collared dove, which has shown no other definite symptoms of a bacterial illness and that IF there is any infection it is more likely to have come from contact with the cat's saliva, I would be less inclined to consider paratyphoid as a first choice. Far more common among pigeons, really.


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## Timp (Jun 8, 2013)

No, I don't think that it would be an infection either. I am not sure how fast the metabolism of doves is, but I think if she got infected by the cat she should have shown some symptoms earlier. But that is only my naive opinion of course.  
Maybe I just really hope it is not an infection. But i will keep my eye on her and see if she gets worse.

Anyways, we have placed her in a shed/little room where she will get more sunlight and will have more place to move then in the carrier. I didn't think before that she may not get enough light, but that place is definietly brighter then the room she was until now. We gave her sesame seed too and I will try to get some vitamins and parrot seed mixture from a pet store tomorrow. Then we shall see what happens. If she starts to get better in a few days, then she was undernourished, (or has an infection that she can fight with the vitamins). 
If she gets worse, then it is possible she has an infection. And if nothing changes for a week or two... then maybe she has a permanent nerve or spine demage. I really hope that is not the case. 

One last question, and please forgive me if this sounds too stupid, but I have never kept a bird in cage before! Someone told me that birds need to eat sand and tiny pebbles to keep their gizzard clean. Is this true? Sould I try to give her some sort of a sand, stone or maybe sepia bone in a bowl? Or is that for parrots only?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Last first: not stupid to not know something  Yes, pigeons and doves do certainly consume grit or tiny pebbles, as it assists the muscles of the gizzard to grind up harder seeds for digestion. The right kind of particles can also provide them with various minerals which are not in their usual seed diet. BUT in this case, as the dove is only a young one, it is less urgent to provide grit at present if she gets a good diet. 

I would agree about the cat infection, actually. She would have probably not survived if she had picked up an infection, without an antibiotic given at the time. It tends to kill them pretty fast, like 48 hours.

If you give parrot food, don't include any big stuff like those different colored chunks I've seen in it and also in some wild bird mixes (sorry, don't know what it is  ). Wild bird seed would probably be better than parrot food, if you can get it. They can also eat small sunflower hearts.

Bird vitamins can be useful, but I think she does need a concentrated calcium supplement. As I say, whatever you find or have, it needs to contain calcium AND specifically vitamin D3. If it is just not possible to find that, feel free to send me a private message to see if I can help with it.


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## Timp (Jun 8, 2013)

Thank you all for all the help! 

John: thank you for the kind offer! I will look around tomorrow and if I can't find any vitamin like that I will take you up on it. But I am rather certain I will find what I need. 
Once we had rescued a litter of kittens (look at me, a cat person hiding on a pidgeon forum! lol!) from an abandoned house when the flood came, and one of them had O shaped legs and bad calcium deficiency. Back then I remember we got some liquid vitamin complex from the vet made especially for these kind of problems with small pets. The kitten got healthy quickly, so that complex must have contained a high dose of D vitamin too. This was some 15 years ago, so I expect if it was sold back then it must be sold now too. At least I hope so.

Anyways, if you don't hear about me, that is a good sign! Thank you again!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Good luck in your search.

As an aside: 3 - 4 years back we rescued a yowling, hungry kitty from the top of the aviary one wet night. We decided to give him a home and, when he was still pretty small, took up a vet's suggestion for pigeon aversion treatment. We held him close (but not too close) to some of the pigeon boxes in the aviary and, as expected, instead of cowering in terror, the big male pigeons just wing slapped kitty's nose. Now, whether it works or not, I don't know, but our huge fluffy cat takes no notice of the pigeons as he stalks past the aviary now.


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## Timp (Jun 8, 2013)

I just thought you people would be interested to hear that it seems my birds problem was indeed calcium deficiency! After getting a lot of vitamins, sesame and other seeds and sunlight I saw her standing up today, and she even tried to take a few stepps. Her fingers are moving again as well! She is getting well again thanks for your help and suggestions! 

On the cat topic however, please let me add something as a veteran cat owner. I agree with you John that cats can be trained to live together with small animals if you train them from young age, or are very-very consistent and patient with them. We hatch chickens many times each years, and as a newborn chick is hardly bigger then a sparrow, they would naturally awake the hunter in our cats. So we did just what you described with them: placed a chick under their nose, and every time the cat had shown any kind of interest in the bird, we slapped them sharp across the nose. We also tried the same with the mother hen around, and believe me, it works perfectly. We keep 5 cats, and they would never touch even the smallest chicken or other bird they realize are owned by us (and hopefully they won't touch doves either from now on). A friend of mine teached her cat to befriend her hamster the same way, so I believe with a lot of patience, this does work!

However, cats are still hunters, and nothing really changes that. I have seen a lot of suggestions on how to stop them, like you should keep your cat well fed to keep them from hunting birds, or you should give them collars with little bells on.

I have tried the collar, and it did work for about 2 months. After that I saw it with my own eyes how one of my cats had sneaked up on blackbird, without the bird ever noticing him. Believe it or not, they have learned that the bell scares off the prey, and they did learn to sneak without making it any sound. I believe it may still lower their chances of succes in hunting, but in my experience, the bell collar doesn't always solve this problem. 

Another suggestion I often see is: keep your cat well fed. Well, sure, don't starve them, but otherwise in my experiance, this doesn't make much difference either.
You see, our cats couldn't be better fed. We constantly keep both fresh, canned food and dry cat food out for them, in case they would ever became hungry during the day. All we manadged with this is, now they don't eat what they catch - they either just kill the a birds and mice, and loose interest after they stopped moving and struggling, or they eat the heads and leave the rest behind. 
Not to mention that one of them loves to present us with his prey as a gift, and he usually leaves them in, or under a bed if we don't catch him sneaking in the rooms in time. As you can imagine, that can lead to some disturbing surprises when it's time to go to sleep... X(

My point is, cats are hunters and murderers by nature. Some cats more then others (we have a cat that has never killed anything, and one that drags something in almost every second day), but unless you try to train them from a young age to avoid certain animals, I doubt you could stop them from doing what they are the best at. If you have an adult cat that keeps killing the wild birds in your garden, I believe the best thing you can do to stop him is that either you stop feeding the birds and with that drawing them in your garden and turn them into potential preys, or keep your cat locked up in the house. The other solutions will only lessen the kill numbers, but not stop them. I think there is no easy solution to this.

Anyways, this was only my two cents on this topic. I may be wrong, but I hope i helped to show things from a bit different perspective as well.


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