# Smith Family Loft - 2012 Clearence



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

It is that time of the year. We don't fly OB's, so all YB's which have undergone 50+ training tosses, and a season of racing, are being offered to the racing pigeon fancy.

For a limited time - until supplies last.

No Pedigree
No individual bird information
No sex guarantee, will attempt to ship one male and one female.
No refunds or exchanges. 

What is being offered, is an inbred genetic line, descended from some of the top breeders of Ganus Family Loft. President, Super Champion, Ikon, etc. All YB's have been road trained and raced. Thoroughly trained and tested. Hand selected to insure birds shipped can help advance your breeding program. 

Price $200 per pair - Free Shipping.

Paypal accepted. Contact me at [email protected] to place your order. I expect to have all business related to this clearance sale by end of this week if not sooner. If interested, do not delay !


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

Good luck with the sale. I'd go for it if I needed some. But, all I need are pumper hens. I've been looking. Folks around here want $100 for pumpers.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Have any of the birds done well in the ACA ?? Top 5% etc.....Alamo


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Why no pedigree?


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Why no pedigree?


I would have to say Ditto?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

No pedigree, or race record? good luck
Dave


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I think he is not providing a pedigree because he feels they are worth more with it and he doesn't want people to re-sell and make money off of them.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

warren do you have Blue Bars?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovelace said:


> warren do you have Blue Bars?


 In this genetic line, their colors are 99.8% blue bars !! The other's are blue bars with a white flight or two. They all look like they could have come from the same parents. For lack of a better description, they would appear to be clones.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

First To Hatch said:


> I think he is not providing a pedigree because he feels they are worth more with it and he doesn't want people to re-sell and make money off of them.


 If I wanted to take the time to be a pigeon merchant. Then I would take the time to prepare the pedigrees, race records, etc. And past experience indicates that it would then require numerous phone calls, emails, inquires, discussions, etc. This involves numerous interactions with a lot of people, most of which most do not result in a sale. 

Maybe someday, when I can do nothing else except play with pigeons, then all of the phone calls and emails required to place these birds the more traditional way, would be something I would consider. In the mean time, it is not worth the hassle and aggravation to me. 

That, and for some reason there was some procrastination this year. This should have been done a month or more ago. It is now late time wise, and I just wanted to offer someone some quality birds without the hassle, and without the big fancy price. 

If someone places a significant value on a pedigree, then this is not the deal for you. Someone like a Mike Ganus can provide you with a pedigreed bird. I am offering individuals an opportunity to own a pair from a select group of young athletes, which completed all training and a series of races. The owner will have access to a gene pool, which may have started with offspring from a who's who list of famous racers. But, the real value comes from years of careful selection and refinement. And one will instantly recognize this the moment you remove the bird from the shipping box and hold it in your hand.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren, by no means am I saying the birds are not worthy, but every bird in my loft can be pedigreed in about 10 seconds. I use Hawkeye. Just seems like if someone is spending any sum of money for a bird they should get a pedigree. $200 is not much money for you, but there are many of us that expect a pedigree with a $200 pair of birds. Even from Warren Smith.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> Have any of the birds done well in the ACA ?? Top 5% etc.....Alamo


 Please excuse my ignorance, but I am not familiar with ACA ? Would you be referring to combine which flies in north eastern Pennsylvania ? We fly in the UPC. Best performance on Combine level was at 300 mile race station from Marion, Va. SFL bird was 1st section, 3rd combine. Also 2012 club champion was a SFL bird. Of course SFL banded birds have won races from Hawaii to Florida to Pennsylvania, to Oklahoma.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My thoughts are if you drum up a few pedigrees, that the guys and gals in PT would be more than happy to part with some of their hard earned money. Many are just curious to see the lineage of the birds. 
There are some that sell birds that play the game of not letting you know much information about the birds and give you the hoopla. They don't give very valuable information on the birds. Just tell you how good they are. Use a bunch of adjective. I want to see race results in the lineage, I want to see pedigrees with numbers. I want to see top notch birds close to the bird I am purchasing, and I want a deal. Warren I am sure you cull birds are better than most guys best birds, but with no race results and pedigrees, any amount of money is too much for me to pay.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren, by no means am I saying the birds are not worthy, but every bird in my loft can be pedigreed in about 10 seconds. I use Hawkeye. Just seems like if someone is spending any sum of money for a bird they should get a pedigree. $200 is not much money for you, but there are many of us that expect a pedigree with a $200 pair of birds. Even from Warren Smith.


Well I am a big fan of computers and Hawkeye. My partner and loft manager Lew Burns is not. He is old school and everything is on paper. Only when we get to our import section do I take over and record everything on software, and paper as well. 

What I will do, is I will modify my offer to include a money back guarantee. Order the birds, when they arrive, check them out, and maybe even show a friend. If you don't like the birds, ship them back within 3 days and I will refund your money.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I think it just gives you a bit more knowledge on the results the whole family of birds had. (At what consistency did they fly good?) Things like that can be really important when using a bird as a breeder which most people buying would be doing.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Warren,
Hate to disagree with you(again)but here's your season's results YB's 9/1-11/3(combine)
That Marion,Va.race 10/13/2012 has you listed at 167th .http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/cgi...d+Pigeon+Combine&pagenum=1&cgifunction=Search


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Josepe said:


> Warren,
> Hate to disagree with you(again)but here's your season's results YB's 9/1-11/3(combine)
> That Marion,Va.race 10/13/2012 has you listed at 167th .That 81st bird 179 Silver fron Carroll Hoover is in my breeding loft now
> http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/cgi...d+Pigeon+Combine&pagenum=1&cgifunction=Search


 I hate to disagree with you again, but you are looking at the wrong bird. Although you are correct in that a SFL bird in that race was close to dead last in addition to 4th and 53rd. I did err in saying 1st section, 3rd combine...but as you can see it was 4th. So...me bad. 


WinSpeed-1 United Pigeon Combine 10/17/12-18:52
Weekly Race Report Page 1
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: MARION, VA Young Bird Race Flown: 10/13/2012
Release(A): 08:00 Birds: 825 Lofts: 65 Station: MARION, VA
Weather (Rel) Clear, 5-N, 42 degrees  (Arr) Clear, 9-S, 52 degrees

POS NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X ARRIVAL MILES TOWIN YPM PT
1 LEW CRESSL/13 225 IF 12 UPC BB C 15:06:31 356.927 00.00 1472.842 100
2 JOHN PRICE/20 22 IF 12 UPC BC H 14:45:53 339.120 00.40 1470.411 99
3 TONY VILLA/20 1451 IF 12 HBG BB H 14:59:36 350.407 00.53 1469.736 98
4 JORGE BURGO/9 * 41 AU 12 SFL BB * H 14:41:18 335.092 00.53 1469.585 97
5 JOE JONES/17 579 IF 12 HHC BC H 14:24:34 321.091 00.53 1469.448 96
6 JOE JONES 625 AU 12 GSV BC H 14:24:34 2/ 17 00.53 1469.448 95
7 WAYNE LOWE/20 994 IF 12 UPC B H 13:52:48 294.529 00.52 1469.222 94
8 WAYNE LOWE 1916 IF 12 CCC BKSP H 13:52:51 2/ 20 00.55 1469.014 93
9 WAYNE LOWE 1914 IF 12 CCC BBF H 13:53:08 3/ 20 01.12 1467.822 92
10 H&H LOFT/16 375 IF 12 UPC BB C 13:33:09 277.169 01.55 1464.317 91
11 ARVEL FREY/20 203 IF 12 HBG BBWF C 14:49:49 340.832 02.31 1463.789 90
12 ARVEL FREYDEN 267 IF 12 HBG BB C 14:50:09 2/ 20 02.51 1462.600 89
13 LEW CRESSLER 230 IF 12 UPC BCWF C 15:09:50 2/ 13 03.18 1461.478 88
14 JOE JONES 633 AU 12 GSV BC H 14:27:05 3/ 17 03.23 1459.907 87
15 BEN HOUSMA/19 619 IF 12 HBG BC C 15:00:43 348.770 03.56 1459.021 86
16 RON PRICE/20 516 AU 12 SWK BB H 14:48:41 338.725 03.56 1458.666 85
17 JOHN DALY/5 445 IF 12 UPC BB C 14:02:58 299.972 04.29 1454.601 84
18 BOB MOSCHE/20 3386 IF 12 CVR BB H 13:33:48 275.878 04.08 1454.600 83
19 BOB MOSCHEL 3311 IF 12 CVR BC H 13:33:50 2/ 20 04.10 1454.455 82
20 TONY VILLARRE 245 IF 12 UPC BCW H 15:04:12 2/ 20 05.29 1453.798 81
21 JOHN PRICE 531 IF 12 RLPC DC C 14:50:45 2/ 20 05.32 1452.996 80
------------------------ End of Diplomas -------------------------------------
22 ZULLI & SON/6 34 IF 12 HBG BC C 15:02:35 348.673 05.55 1452.174 79
23 BILL FRITZ/11 809 IF 12 HHC SILV C 14:31:18 322.459 05.58 1450.358 78
24 RON PRICE 12 IF 12 UPC BWFT H 14:51:35 2/ 20 06.50 1448.388 77
25 BEN HOUSMAN 652 IF 12 HBG BC C 15:03:57 2/ 19 07.10 1447.893 76
26 TONY VILLARRE 1424 IF 12 HBG BC C 15:06:09 3/ 20 07.26 1447.145 75
27 H&H LOFT 915 IF 12 CVR BB C 13:37:14 2/ 16 06.00 1446.586 74
28 STEWART MA/16 806 IF 12 HBG BC H 15:13:13 356.050 07.44 1446.502 73
29 ZULLI & SON L 24 IF 12 HBG BB C 15:04:58 2/ 6 08.18 1444.030 72
30 Gerardo Tu/15 1493 IF 12 HBG BC H 15:04:38 348.375 08.20 1443.928 71
31 ARVEL FREYDEN 239 IF 12 HBG BBWF C 14:55:40 3/ 20 08.22 1443.188 70
32 FLEET KORR/20 1177 IF 12 CCC BB C 13:46:48 284.370 07.00 1443.057 69
33 Tom Matinch/7 854 IF 12 HBG DC C 15:02:38 346.161 08.58 1441.542 68
34 HAPPY LAND/13 434 IF 12 UPC DC H 13:45:09 282.243 07.52 1439.221 67
35 BOB KOCH/20 254 IF 12 UPC BBWF C 15:08:17 349.853 10.12 1437.747 66
36 HARSHMAN&SO/5 2437 AU 12 ARPU DC H 13:43:49 280.195 08.59 1434.321 65
37 BOB KOCH 1074 IF 12 HBG CHOC C 15:09:20 2/ 20 11.15 1434.231 64
38 HAPPY LANDING 1706 IF 12 CVR BBWF H 13:46:44 2/ 13 09.27 1432.649 63
39 BEN HOUSMAN 692 IF 12 HBG BC C 15:08:49 3/ 19 12.02 1431.461 62
40 BOB KOCH 1079 IF 12 HBG BB C 15:10:26 3/ 20 12.21 1430.566 61
41 OBED CONDE/6 424 IF 12 HBG GRIZ C 15:05:17 345.351 12.35 1429.206 60
42 HOOVER LOFT/8 52 IF 12 UPC BC H 15:02:05 342.040 13.22 1426.148 59
43 DON BETZ/20 1265 IF 12 CVR BB H 13:55:56 288.218 11.30 1425.221 58
44 FLEET KORRELL 1144 IF 12 CCC BBWF C 13:51:26 2/ 20 11.38 1424.026 57
45 WENDELL EHR/5 1104 IF 12 RLPC DC C 15:00:27 340.091 14.04 1423.565 56
46 STEWART MATHI 841 IF 12 HBG BC H 15:21:03 2/ 16 15.34 1420.811 55
47 HAPPY LANDING 1714 IF 12 CVR BB H 13:50:14 3/ 13 12.57 1418.332 54
48 STEWART MATHI 813 IF 12 HBG BB C 15:21:55 3/ 16 16.26 1418.025 53
49 H&H LOFT 1251 IF 12 CCC SILV H 13:44:07 3/ 16 12.53 1417.649 52
50 Shooting S/10 962 IF 12 CVR BB C 13:55:31 286.272 13.25 1417.202 51
51 BILL FRITZ 826 IF 12 HHC BC C 14:40:40 2/ 11 15.20 1416.446 50
52 BARRY CLAT/20 43 IF 12 CCC BB H 14:23:12 308.112 15.02 1415.033 49
53 JORGE BURGOS *36 AU 12 SFL BCWF H* 14:57:25 2/ 9 17.00 1412.845 48
WinSpeed-1 United Pigeon Combine 10/17/12-18:52
Weekly Race Report Page 2
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: MARION, VA Young Bird Race Flown: 10/13/2012

http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/cgi...pagenum=1&cgifunction=Search&cgifunction=form


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry Warren,
I see now they were flown by another flyer and had your bands on.My bad.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Warren I don't mind not getting a pedigree, but I do want race records. You your self has said you shouldn't buy birds unless they complement your birds or are better than what you have. I'll spend the money if I know what I'm getting. JMO
Dave


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I hate to disagree with you again, but you are looking at the wrong bird. Although you are correct in that a SFL bird in that race was close to dead last in addition to 4th and 53rd. I did err in saying 1st section, 3rd combine...but as you can see it was 4th. So...me bad.
> 
> 
> WinSpeed-1 United Pigeon Combine 10/17/12-18:52
> ...


The true worth of ones birds are that others can take them and also win with them...... We all like to win but when your beat with your own birds ..... well I call that a win win situation.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

All valid points but if you don't like the offer, Don't take him up on it, I would buy a pair of his birds for $200 just knowing (from reading his posts) that they are good hard birds that have been selected well and hard.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

If I had the money, I would jump on these birds in a second. Jeff


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Kandis1988 - your post has been moved to the general discussions forum.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My biggest complaint about results is when there is a CLOCKING LIMIT....I`m NOT picking on WARREN here,by no means....But when and if I was going to make a purchase of a pigeon that was flown,I want the RESULTS to be RIGHT....And right to ME is the result of the pigeon in question that I MIGHT want to buy,has to be it`s REAL position of FINISH....And that can ONLY be shown,by a club/combines result with a NO LIMIT clocking rule....My combine in YB`s is a 5 bird limit...That`s childs play in my book...In old bird racing,only our results for our Federation Long Distance races,do we have a clock ALL you get home....This is the ONLY time when I think myself,and ANY other IRPC members(That`s the combine I fly OB`s with),can BRAG about their birds accomplishments,and BE TRUTHFULL !!!!!!!! Alamo


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

Warren

I trust that all of these birds you are selling have the gene that enables them to evade any and all hawks.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> My biggest complaint about results is when there is a *CLOCKING LIMIT*....I`m NOT picking on WARREN here,by no means....But when and if I was going to make a purchase of a pigeon that was flown,I want the RESULTS to be RIGHT....And right to ME is the result of the pigeon in question that I MIGHT want to buy,has to be it`s REAL position of FINISH....And that can ONLY be shown,by a club/combines result with a NO LIMIT clocking rule....My combine in YB`s is a 5 bird limit...That`s childs play in my book...In old bird racing,only our results for our Federation Long Distance races,do we have a clock ALL you get home....This is the ONLY time when I think myself,and ANY other IRPC members(That`s the combine I fly OB`s with),can BRAG about their birds accomplishments,and BE TRUTHFULL !!!!!!!! Alamo



This idea of a clocking limit, is something that we must contend with here locally. Right, wrong, or indifferent, somewhere along the line, our combine imposed a *3 Bird Clocking limit !* Now I understand the reasons of how such a thing came about, but I agree with you 100% !

There has been numerous instances where a bird caught my attention by way of their consistency on race day, but the official race records would appear to indicate that a particular bird is of no or very marginal race value. Why ? Because the bird may have been entered six, seven or eight times in various races, and in theory, would never earn a single diploma, or win a single race. What the records wouldn't show, is that the bird, had there not been a clocking limit, could in theory be the best bird in the club. Why ? Not because he or she won this race or that, but because he or she was consistently home, week in and week out, just mostly not in the top three. 

By traditional forms of measurement, such a bird would be considered to be some kind of cull, since the race reports would indicate very average race results. Had such a bird once, which was sent to all 9 races. Bird would arrive home, just not typically in the top three. Had the sum of all his efforts been recorded on some race sheet, I am sure most would have a much different opinion of his performance. Instead, a bird which maybe was sent to maybe half of the races, but managed to be one of the first three once, or a couple of times, would appear to be the superior race specimen, but I am not so sure anymore. In years past, a single win, or a pair of diplomas, if the pedigree was pretty, the bird would have won a breeding box, while the bird which completed 9 races, was considered a bird with substandard performance. 

Such is the danger, IMHO, of placing too much value on the piece of paper a bird is born with, and putting a little too much faith in what the reports would indicate, what with a clocking limit. It has only been recent history, where I took a hard look at how I have "evaluated" birds in the past. It was conversations with my partner, looking back at such birds which were removed from our program in favor of "race winners", that the error of my past thinking was sort of uncovered.

At the time some of these events occurred, I remember selecting birds for breeding, which looking back, were based in large part, on a very few good performances. Where as bird's which were very consistent, but due to the clocking limit, were unable to measure in some cases, very consistent, although less then spectacular performances. 

In an attempt to get a better picture of what is going on. I have since stated to measure and record, performances relative to all other birds in the loft, and not just rely on club records of first three birds. It seems logical now, but for many years, I didn't even bother to measure such things. I guess my thinking was, who cares if a bird was 4th to loft, or 10th to loft, if my 1st bird didn't even win 1st place ? Just didn't seem like data to put on a pedigree. 

It is only conjecture now, but as my partner and I discussed how we measure performance, we were left with the feeling, that the 9 race cock bird I mentioned earlier, may have been one of my best pigeons, but he was removed as I recall, in favor of birds which had simply won a few diplomas, competing in half as many races. When one considers that many One Loft events now involve a series of races, one would think that consistency in returning from numerous race events, is a trait or ability, that one requires to win over the course of a season. 

The thought has occurred to me, what if I had used that cock bird as a template going forward ? What kind of a difference would it had made, if over say the last five years or so, if I had sent every bird to all nine races, recorded every performance for every entry, and only retained the better performers who completed all nine events ? I suspect I would be in a different place genetically within the colony. Instead, like most I suspect, I focused on those who on a few occasions, recorded some good performances. 

So, I agree with you 100%. I have been under a three bird clocking rule for so long, that it never really occurred to me how the rule may have impacted my own selection process. Not sure exactly why it has taken me so long to come to this realization.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Granny Smith said:


> Warren
> 
> I trust that all of these birds you are selling have the gene that enables them to evade any and all hawks.


A gene to evade hawks, I think multiple genes influence their ability to get away from a a hawk, That's like saying we have a gene that makes us run fast from lions, Once agian, Many factors come into play, Speed, Will to live, Agility, Stamina.


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## triple7loft (Nov 22, 2012)

Very interesting,
I was having the same talk with a one loft manager the other day..
Everyone seems to want the one win on the big race for the prize money..And they pay stupid money for the winner just to own him or her having no idea what there going to get when they mate the bird..........
And for me this year I have grown in my formula to look for more consistent pigeons...I am now looking for the ones that or more on the Overall Champion Bird program or Average Speed Program..... Dont get me wrong a 1st place would be great and then all top 10% finishes would be the cream of the crop...And also how hard is the course they fly what dangers do they face is it a tail wind race or a head wind race? Sorry about rambling here but I know a man that has been in the process of what Warren has been doing for years as well and he doesnt race with a club. He halls his birds all the way to 375 and races them home in straight head winds. I feel after you make that many tosses and race all the races it also shows what I think sets these or any other pigeons that have been through a program like this is they have guts and thats what I want to see as well.A tail wind race doesnt show anything to me, to many on the drop only shows a trap race and i dont have pigeons that can run as fast as others can  Now if every pigeon that Warren is selling has gone through the things he has said then thats better than buying from a big loft that is selling third and fourth generation birds that havent flown since the great great grand parents flew back in the day then i think you would be better served with going with pigeons that made it through the season..



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> This idea of a clocking limit, is something that we must contend with here locally. Right, wrong, or indifferent, somewhere along the line, our combine imposed a *3 Bird Clocking limit !* Now I understand the reasons of how such a thing came about, but I agree with you 100% !
> 
> There has been numerous instances where a bird caught my attention by way of their consistency on race day, but the official race records would appear to indicate that a particular bird is of no or very marginal race value. Why ? Because the bird may have been entered six, seven or eight times in various races, and in theory, would never earn a single diploma, or win a single race. What the records wouldn't show, is that the bird, had there not been a clocking limit, could in theory be the best bird in the club. Why ? Not because he or she won this race or that, but because he or she was consistently home, week in and week out, just mostly not in the top three.
> 
> ...


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It is that time of the year. We don't fly OB's, so all YB's which have undergone 50+ training tosses, and a season of racing, are being offered to the racing pigeon fancy.
> 
> For a limited time - until supplies last.
> 
> ...


Are these the lines you were crossing with you LUDO line of birds. It reads like they are. either way I am sure they are useable birds.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Granny Smith said:


> Warren
> 
> I trust that all of these birds you are selling have the gene that enables them to evade any and all hawks.




Nope, not these....these are racing pigeons ! The very small colony of pigeons I own which have these sort of "tongue in cheek" abilities I refer to as the "anti-hawk" gene are a totally separate breed. 

Originally acquired from a fancier who created them from odds and ends he was able to acquire in Bosnia. They were suppose to be my "hawk bait" and take the hawk hit, in order to spare my YB racers. Years of being made to loft fly 12 months out of the year, having to face Mister Cooper even when he was starving in the middle of winter. Somewhere along the line, they simply stopped getting caught, and thus my claim of an anti-hawk gene. I guess to be more intellectually honest, they are not really "hawk proof" they are really simply "hawk resistant". 

I didn't do it, Mother Nature did.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree your claim that they have anti hawk genes but for you to claim they have one gene which makes them able to get away from hawks is silly. As you pointed out, Mother nature, Through selection has lead the birds to be made up of multiple genes which assist them in getting away from hawks.


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> A gene to evade hawks, I think multiple genes influence their ability to get away from a a hawk, That's like saying we have a gene that makes us run fast from lions, Once agian, Many factors come into play, Speed, Will to live, Agility, Stamina.


I was just joking around. Unfortunatly I was using my phone and couldn't find the smiley faces


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Sold Out !*

I want to thank everyone for their interest and for the feedback. Congratulations to those who are being shipped birds. I had anticipated that I would be able to share more of these racers with my friends here at PT, but a Combine member got the word that we were overstocked and had some available. When I left Lew and this fancier about an hour ago, he wanted them all, and was attempting to twist Lew's arm for additional bird's, so for now, we are sold out.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I want to thank everyone for their interest and for the feedback. Congratulations to those who are being shipped birds. I had anticipated that I would be able to share more of these racers with my friends here at PT, but a Combine member got the word that we were overstocked and had some available. When I left Lew and this fancier about an hour ago, he wanted them all, and was attempting to twist Lew's arm for additional bird's, so for now, we are sold out.


GREAT Glad you sold them to the same person. and hope they do well breeding from them


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## aarongreen123 (Jan 26, 2005)

thats great news, thanks Warren


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

Very interesting thread.....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

re lee said:


> GREAT Glad you sold them to the same person. and hope they do well breeding from them


 I did send some out to members here on PT and another fancier, but yes, it was a lot less work and hassle to sell 8 pairs to one person, rather then having to ship out 8 more different boxes. Wasn't really fair though, the local fancier was able to see and hold the birds, whereas others who may not really know me, had to trust that I would not send out junk. Those that did stick their necks out, and bought sight unseen, were rewarded as Lew and I cherry picked for my friends here on PT who took the plunge ! 

Thanks again to those, and you know who you are, who placed your trust and confidence in me. You won't be disappointed.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Hopefully, those that did buy them will post some pictures. That would be great.


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