# Would you buy?



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

Would you buy this pair?? Look closely at the wording of the marketing...

This is a current auction on pipa.
http://www.pipa.be/toppigeons/toppigeon.php?id=1011#33057

Aladin & Last Lady are also in the auction, because it is a total auction of the old birds. However, we want to inform you exactly how many youngsters were bred from them last year.

Aladin bred exactly 15 young birds in 2009 with different hens! In total he was paired 10 times in 2009. His fertility up to now is almost perfect.

Aladin x Last Lady is a very inbred couple, that's why it is not easy to have good youngsters from this couple. During their entire life in Jurgen Jung's loft, they only produced a little more than 10 youngsters as a couple, there were sold none except in an auction on PiPa

Last Lady was paired three times last year 
the hens in Jungs loft don't lay often. Jurgen threats his 
pigeons like they are his children. He believes it is very 
important not to force nature. From none of the breeding hens
in his loft he bred more than 5 couples per year! 

She laid 6 eggs from these 3 pairings.
1 time the babies didn't hatch out.
1 time we have 1 youngster from two eggs;
1 time she was coupled with Aladin - there was one youngster, but it didn't grow up normally.

1st bid: 5.000 EURO - Paulo Campos - Portugal
2nd bid: 5.200 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium (by b.o.)
3rd bid: 6.000 EURO - SG Mack Racing Pigeons - Germany
4th bid: 6.200 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium (by b.o.)
5th bid: 6.400 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
6th bid: 6.600 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium (by b.o.)
7th bid: 6.800 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands 'by b.o.)
8th bid: 7.000 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium (by b.o.)
9th bid: 7.200 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
10th bid: 7.400 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium (by b.o.)
11th bid: 7.600 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
12th bid: 8.000 EURO - Lemmens-Hild - Belgium
13th bid: 8.200 EURO - Wout Spierings - The Netherlands
14th bid: 8.400 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
15th bid: 8.600 EURO - Wout Spierings - The Netherlands
16th bid: 8.800 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
17th bid: 9.000 EURO - Wout Spierings - The Netherlands
18th bid: 9.200 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
19th bid: 9.500 EURO - Wout Spierings - The Netherlands
20th bid: 9.700 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
21st bid: 10.000 EURO - www.emeraldclassic.co.uk - United Kingdom
22nd bid: 10.000 EURO - Jan & Kathy Lotterman - The Netherlands (by b.o.)
Current bid: 15.000 EURO - Paulo Campos - Portugal


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

The bidding is because of the pedigrees. I know the description makes it sound like a disaster in the making, but the pedigrees are too enticing.

From reading all of the other descriptions associated with this owner, it seems that he has problems with breeding and rearing babies. But he also has produced some great winners. The peds are as I said "enticing". People go ga ga over Koopmans, and especially children of Kleine Dirk.

I think that if I was "in the money", I would buy this pair. But....if I was "in the money" I would be racing horses or cars most likely.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Anything with the name "Koopman" seems to be all the rage right now. Americans forced to exchange US dollars, which are quickly becoming trash, are at a huge disadvantage. I would attempt to purchase stock right here in the USA where for that $22,000 or so, it's still possible to obtain some good stock.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I agree with Warren on this one. Klein Dirk is the rage. 15k is way too steep for a bird of this stature. Chances are you would by this bird breed from it and the offspring did not win high points. Chances are the high points bird from the club bred to the second high points bird in the club would work much better for you. Also it would save you about 14k. 

I have a daughter of a national Borgues winner in my loft. She is no better than any other bird in the loft. There are good birds in the US that will not break the bank. 

There are some great birds on Pipa that you could pick up for a much better price.

In simpler terms, I would not buy this bird. 

Randy


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Pipa is talked about quite often, as a good source for quality birds. What does everyone think about Europigeons.nl? They have fair fixed prices IMO. Of course it is 145 bucks per bird for the importing. I purchased two birds through them and was pleased with the service as far as the health and transportation involved. Whether they breed me good birds, well....only time will tell.

http://www.europigeons.biz/index.php?option=com_sectionex&view=category&id=7&Itemid=66


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

I say buy the pair if you have the money. 

The cock can be bred to many hens and give you a colony of offsprings the first year. The hen may be only the "cherry" on top, as she may be infertile by the time she gets to the US, but even one healthy offspring from the pair will be worth the full auction price. 

With this auction, you are essentially buying the cock and getting the hen and an extra bird. If the claims are correct concerning the cock's breeding ability, then he is worth his price. You will be guaranteed to make your money back the first year selling his offsprings. I'm sure people will pay upwards of $5000 for an offspring. 

This would be a smart investment, in my opinion.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

Aladin has a lot offspring through out Europe whom have bred or are winners themself. Whom in the pigeon game in Europe who has not heard of him? Thats Aladin  that bird is a superbreeder!  I think the only person who has off spring of aladin is Kenny Rhodes who is the high bidder.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Nope. Dave


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Based on the age, recent hatch rate, and price, this is not a bird I would spend my hard earned money on. I would rather get 4 US bred birds that are proven breeders and younger. This pair is for the "feather merchants" wanting to sell pigeons with a beautiful piece of paper regardless of who the actual parents are if you know what I mean. I also would not buy the young (2010 or 2011) off of this pair when and if they went up for sale for the same reason!!! I tend to be more skepticle when it comes to older birds breeding quantity and quality pigeons. (I would bet this bird will fill all his eggs with 10 different hens for the new buyer. It will be a miracle of epic preportions.) It amazes me as to how many young are produced in one year from a 14 year old cock or hen just because they have a "BIG NAME". I dont seem to have the same luck with my 10 year olds here in my loft. Bad luck or reality, you be the judge 
Ken


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A name sells. Now some will buy that name mainly to make a profit selling young birds. Any bird will just produce a very small number of good to great birds Aften just 1 to 2 in its life time that would go on to improve the family group. But same with race horses they get studed out and produce many a hope to someone And if lucky somtime reproduce another great winning horse. To tell the truth race birds have been over priced buy the dealers. And the very rich. When many a great bird gets sold at a fare price. The mecca of pigeon racing is not the USA. But many a good bird has been brought here BUT Not but a few breeders have really set them down and bred them right. Because many dealers buy them for resale purpose.


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

The bird is definitely out of my price range... and Koop seems to have results to back up his birds. However the age of the bird, description of the bird, the bidders' list, in line with Ken's comments do set off red flags for me. Also it was NOT clear whether the current seller had ANY success with the offspring although Europe was definitely buzzing with "Alladin and his offspring" from the previous owner.

Aside, Koop certainly did a number at the MDPR - had 7 day birds and what I would consider a good showing (sent about 100 to the race and 39 to the final).

The USA had 12 day birds (sent 488+ to the race and 330 to the final).

In my unbiased opinion (as I have zero Koopman birds), it is obvious who had the better showing assuming that all things were handled equally at the race.

Also, I would be curious as to what number of birds with Koopman blood went and scored in the MDPR by other fanciers.... as it seems everywhere you turn, a Koopman bird is being sold !!!!


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

Hell I will sell my hole frist round now 24 birds on feb 1st for 3,500 same that i fly this year 4 frist and 2 combine winners average speed club 2nd combine average speed long ender and still have all 25 that i race in young birds.


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