# Droopy/Sleepy eyes on a juvenile pigeon suddenly



## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

I rescued a baby pigeon dumped in the garbage bin, but it climbed up and sat on the outer of the bin, some kind soul put some crushed plantain chips for this pigeon, but he was a baby squeaker and didnt know how to eat. Long story short, that pigeon is my pal who would fly and sit on my head upon entering my apartment, he is also a bridge/agent between my wild rescues, seeing him riding on me, they seem relaxed that this monster of a guy isn't gonna eat us. But since yesterday, he seems extremely sleepy, so sleepy that he flew and sat on my hand while I was working on my computer, I was startled and looked what the hell just happened, he was already asleep in my hand, both eyes closed. He then perched near the window for the whole night, it is mid afternoon now, and he is still closing his eyes to a point that I can get near him and touch him. Not sure if he is aware that it is me and doesn't detect danger but he didn't flinch until I touched him. He can fly and be alert, but he looks like he is closing the eyes and dreaming in 20 secs of non activity. Theres no parasites on any of them. Is this normal?

I have uploaded a video here, please take a look.


https://www.facebook.com/krisfordthealpha/videos/546885055494285/


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*No, that is not normal.

I had a bird with those symptoms, turned out to be coccidiosis. Not saying he has it, but it reminded me of that bird when you mentioned the sleepiness.

Is he eating well? If not eating well, he needs to be supplemented hand/force fed.

Is he pooping well or diarrhea? What do poos look like?

Get the bird on some heat (heating pad set on low, with towel between pad and bird).

Also, if this is a youngster, get some probiotics for him, even plain non-fat yogurt/greek will do. 

His gut bacteria may be completely depleted, as young birds lose it quickly, and have little to begin with. When that happens the bad bacteria multiplies.

Thank you for rescuing the little one.


*


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Most of the time when a youngster gets that sleepy look it is because they are dehydrated. This happens a lot with young birds when they are first put on their own. Dip it's beak in the water, and if this is the problem the bird will get a long drink. Sometimes they have to be shown a couple of times before they learn where to get a drink.

When you are weaning young birds from the parents it is important to keep an eye out for the 'sleepy' ones.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

This pigeon knows very well how to drink, cuz I have a small scoop cup that comes with whey protein, and I use that to feed them water.

Whenever I have the cup filled, and call him, he would fly to my hand to drink water.

Today when I offered him, he didnt want to drink and kept moving away from the water.

Also, about feeding as the other posted posted, he is not eating on his own. He normally would beg for food, but he is not today.

Unless, I keep the seeds in my palm and offer it to him, he ate some without much interest. He also did a lot of "false pecking" not to be confused with PMV where they attempt to peck but they can't and miss the seeds.

But he wasnt missing anything, when I say false pecking, he would almost reach the seed but without interest he wont actually touch the seed with his beak. However, he attempted to eat some peanuts. I gave him some garlic and human grade calcium, unforuntely I dont have any probiotics on me, I dont usually buy that for even my consumption. I have to get some for him, the bad news is there its a holiday and there are no grocery store open today. I have to wait till tomorrow, is he gonna be okay until then???

He seems to fluff his feathers today, and tuck his head inside though while standing, and occassionaly shakes his head (Again not those weird head twist that we know about PMV) just like when they are wet or cold, they shake their head right? Thats what hes been doing while he is sleeping perching.

I am worried if he has caught some disease?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

As Skyeking suggested, would offer a heating pad as long as he can get away from it if he is too warm. If he doesn't start eating you may need to hand feed him more. How are his droppings? Can you post a photo if those? Is there any way you can have an avian vet check him out? He is a really cute bird.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you leave water with them that they can drink from whenever they want? They should have water available all the times. I also thought about being dehydrated. Have you checked way down his throat with a flashlight to see if there is anything cheesy looking down there. Could be canker. Very common.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Do you leave water with them that they can drink from whenever they want? They should have water available all the times. I also thought about being dehydrated. Have you checked way down his throat with a flashlight to see if there is anything cheesy looking down there. Could be canker. Very common.



Actually I leave the water for the adults but this baby or teenage one kept pooping on the water, the rest of the box would be clean and for some reason he aims it in the water bowl like its a toilet. So I started feeding him water by hand every few hours. 

Today he refuses to drink water. I dont have a syringe, I tried that method of pushing his beak enough that it would touch the water, but he keeps moving his head away. How else can I make him drink water??? Pls help!!

I also checked his throat, with my smart phone flash light, it seems pinkish and clear.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would keep trying by gently lowering his beak into the water, just not over the nostrils. If you have to supplement feeding because he isn't eating, you can feed the frozen peas, which have been defrosted under warm running water. To just warm all the way through, but not hot. Feeding these is good because they do contain a lot of moisture and so help to keep him hydrated. You can also dribble water from a syringe or eye dropper onto the outside of his beak, and he may suck it in. Putting water into their beak is dangerous because they can easily aspirate. I don't know that it is de-hydration, but it can look like that. If you can rehydrate him and he still is acting like this, I would treat for canker with metronidazole, 40 mg once daily for 7 to 10 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you fashion a drinker that is protected so that he can't poop in it? 
Some use a washed out milk bottle and cut a large hole out on the side, and a few inches up from the bottom. Then fill it up to the hole and they can put their heads in to drink, but cannot poop in it.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Thank you Jay3. That is very helpful, I slept too long and woke up in panic thinking about this bird since I left him unattended for over 10 hours, I kept water for him in his box though, happy to see that he drank some water, as its half empty.

The condition seems to be better, or I dont know I cant tell. But he seems slow for sure, I am not sure if its because he knows it is me and I am not a danger and does not get alert when I get near or he is geniuenly unaware of danger. He keeps flying to my shoulder and then sleeps again. His flight seems okay but still looks like he puts in a lot of effort not to miss landing.

He is not an expert flyer, he only started flying properly 2 weeks ago, but used to fly fast being curious about flying tricks watching the adults. But he is not flying that much since yesterday, he would rather rest, perked up. He preens occassionally with his eyes closed.

He is definately slow and possibly unaware of his surroundings and his alertness is probably at 4 in the scale of 1 to 10. 

I still havent bought any of the stuff about, I need to go get Peas, Probiotics today, I am on my way out to the grocery store, (It was Canada day yesterday, everything was deserted) 

I am a bit worried if he got PMV or something although there is no absolutely sings of PMV. I am also worried if he caught something from me, like a human virus or what not. Because 3 days ago, he was sitting on my shoulder for about 15 minutes, while I was watching a movie and eating some biscuits, he suddenly reached his beak and pecked in my mouth, I did not expect that. Is it possible that he could have caught some bacteria from me, human mouth? I am very clean and often brush my teeth but I am trying to find out what are the possibilites of him being sick due to anything other than PMV. I feel horrible about this, seeing such a fast inquisitive bird, being lame and slow constantly in a state of dreaming.

Please dont accuse me, I did not expect that bird to peck on my mouth. 

Any information could be helpful to figure out what is going on with thim. 

I have another choice, there is a bird sanctuary (the only one) that takes pigeons and treat them with high quality treatment in the country side, make them social if they are youngsters and release them when they are ready, to a grainfield along the horse track and lake area. I heard its heaven for pigeons to be around there. But if the bird is very ill, and wont make it, they will put the bird down. I do not want to send the bird there if this is some kind of disease and have them put him down. I want to determine what exactly is causing his problem and his chances of recovery.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How long have you had him?


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

For about a month now. When I got him he was a squeaker. But he started to coo the first time, like 4 days ago, when his squeaking stopped. It is not very distinctive like an adult male pigeons coo, but low sounding one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well if he is so sleepy and not acting right, I would first treat for canker, as it is very common, especially when a pigeon is under stress. Won't hurt to treat him in any case.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Well if he is so sleepy and not acting right, I would first treat for canker, as it is very common, especially when a pigeon is under stress. Won't hurt to treat him in any case.



So do you want me to send the bird to the sanctuary? They have all kinds of medication and care for the bird. If the bird is hopelessly ill, they would put him down. This bird can make a full recovery right?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Did I say to send him to the sanctuary?
I said treat him for canker. You can get Metronidazoe and treat him. I cannot be sure that it is canker, but chances are good that it is. 
In stores that sell tropical fish they sell Fishzole. It is Metronidazole, but would have to make sure before buying that it has nothing else in it but Metronidazole. You would be better off with tablets, as powder would be harder to treat with. You can also buy Metronidazole online at pigeon supply places.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

I live in Canada, I cannot find any medications like that easily. Even for the sevin dust, mite spray etc, I had to travel for 2 hours to get it from a country side store.

I heard these things are easily available in the states. I couldn't even get Ivert I ordered on ebay a while ago, that was confiscated by customs and destroyed.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you have hardware stores, they carry the seven 5% garden dust. Don't you have pigeon supply places there that you can order online from?


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> If you have hardware stores, they carry the seven 5% garden dust. Don't you have pigeon supply places there that you can order online from?


There is one or two stores but they dont have that particular medication. But searching in their FAQ,

I think this pigeon has Coccidiosis.


Coccidiosis


Symptoms: Infected birds have little or no desire to eat or drink, will remain puffed up on perches, lack any desire to move and often close their eyes. Droppings are usually very loose, greenish in color and may become very watery. Loss of weight occurs, and death can occur in young birds. 


The symptoms are 100% match. Now I am worried about the adult birds since this pigeon used to hang out with the adult birds. They seem fine though.


How do I treat the pigeon for Coccidiosis??


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those symptoms cover many things. Can you post a pic of his droppings?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please don't just send him to a sanctuary. Most will not care about him like you do. We adopted our first, totally wonderful and loved Phoebe because the local wildlife rehab doesnt want to help pigeons, just euthanize them. How does his poop look?


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Canadian pigeon supplies*

http://www.pigeonplus.ca/


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> http://www.pigeonplus.ca/



I will post pics of his droppings tonight, i cant find it since the adult one poop'd around, not sure which is which.

Theres defn something wrong with him, he is too slow, unaware of the surroundings and not flying properly, his wings work fine but not able to land where he aims without struggle. Always perked up, chest feathers are fluffed and eyes closed. If I clap my hands, he gets aware and opens his eyes to look then closes again.

I forced fed him 30 frozen peas yesterday, and 2 tbsp of Probiotics yogurt, he HATED it. Can you believe it, I spent 1 hour yesterday trying to find Syringe or eye droppers, no grocery store sells it, finally found a pharmacy that was open, but their debit or credit machine didnt work and told me they only accept cash, with NO ATM machines around. I wanted punch the store clerk as he didn't want to break a 100 dollar bill, which is all I had.

I had to use a small straw I got from Mcdonlads for him, must have been very awkward.

This is not a sanctuary I am talking about, it is more of a wild birds rehabilitating place in the country side that runs via donation. They give pigeons excellent care with their in house vet, BUT if a pigeon is too weak and unable to fly when released, they would put it down.

Someone took a pigeon there a couple of weeks ago, that was covered in Tar and dried up and there was nothing they could do, so they put it down.

I've sent 3 birds there before, they cared for it for 3 months and released it to the local healthy flock by the lakeshore. But, I dont know what they would do to this pigeon if I send them there.


Please comment on it as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Eye droppers are for medicine and such, therefore sold in pharmacies, not markets.
You must have pet stores around, or stores that sell tropical fish?

Anyway, the bird is ill, probably canker, so he may be better off with the rehabbers. Either they will euthanize him, or treat him. But at least they would do something.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Eye droppers are for medicine and such, therefore sold in pharmacies, not markets.
> You must have pet stores around, or stores that sell tropical fish?
> 
> Anyway, the bird is ill, probably canker, so he may be better off with the rehabbers. Either they will euthanize him, or treat him. But at least they would do something.



Okay, no there are many dog supply stores in my area, I live downtown without a car. Pet stores out here are meant for Cats and dogs.

Anyways, I always thought canker is something that is present in all the birds and will get serious if the bird is stressed out.

This pigeon is probably 45 days old, I didnt know the young birds can get serious with it. I spoke to the rehabber, she wanted me to bring the bird on Tuesday. 

I will have to order these medications in handy for the future from the online stores. Please provide me the list of the stuff needed for future rescues.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

First of all, most pigeons carry trichomonads, that they live with without a problem. But when they are stressed for any reason, like another illness, injury, weaning, even hot weather, or their parents can pass it on to them. Then the trich levels go up and it causes canker. Many young birds get it. By Tues. he will probably be weaker.

Good things to have:
Metronidazole for canker
a good wormer
something for cocci
Enrofloxin or other wide spectrum antibiotic

Things that can be gotten a little here and there.


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Thanks Jay3. I will order these supplies to come in handy for the future.

The rehabber is in a different city 2 hours drive where she has her help center, but she has a 2nd profession in the city I live in for 4 days a week, so she told me to bring him on Tuesday morning and feed the bird peas until then. She is not sure about probiotics as she thinks pigeons don't do well with diaries. 

The bird however, only eats peanuts even with this condition he is keen to eat peanuts, but I assume its not good for him and only force feed him peas.

Also, this maybe a stretch, but since customs destroyed my package because of what was written outside the box, mentioning the name of the medication, I wonder if someone from the states could buy these for me, I am willing to pay in advance, I can send the money and they can probably put together the necessary supplies for me however much it will cost, and then ship it to me personally. 

I am just trying to help the birds, not trying to scam anybody. If anyone can ship the necessary things to me personally after paying in advance, I would appreciate it. These things are so easily readily available in the states. Just wondering if its gonna be possible in this board.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Skyeking said:


> *No, that is not normal.
> 
> ******I had a bird with those symptoms, turned out to be coccidiosis. Not saying he has it, but it reminded me of that bird when you mentioned the sleepiness.
> 
> ...





peacefulpigeon said:


> There is one or two stores but they dont have that particular medication. But searching in their FAQ,
> 
> ********I think this pigeon has Coccidiosis.
> 
> ...


******* PER MY EARLIER POST, please read ABOVE. Give the bird the yogurt several small helpings per day and you will see a big difference, then worry about any other symptoms. *


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## peacefulpigeon (Jul 1, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> ******* PER MY EARLIER POST, please read ABOVE. Give the bird the yogurt several small helpings per day and you will see a big difference, then worry about any other symptoms. *



Hahah yes the topic got to others and I forgot your first post diagnosis. I am giving him yogurt (Activia Probiotics) however each cup is meant for human size, how much do I give him? It is also so thick to be absorbed in the eye dropper I bought, so I dilute it a bit with warm water to be able to suck it in and then flush it back in the birds mouth. He is terrified of force feeding him peas and then eye dropper yogurt.

I splash yogurt about 4 times via this eye dropper (1ml). Is this enough for one sitting? In total about 3 to 4 ml a day.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I use an organic greek thick yogurt, PLAIN, FAT free, (NO sugar added )and smear a little inside beak, he will flick off a little but still get some. The results are amazing, do it several times a day. *


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