# OOPS baby, don't know what to do!



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We have 2 rescues, Oscar and Scruffy, who are mates and share a cage. Scruffy lays eggs, my husband Aias switches them out, and all has been well. Until now...Aias has been away almost 3 weeks, and I guess they must've laid an egg right when he left and I didn't realize it was new (they had 1 egg in the cage already, I thought there were 2). So yesterday, I almost had a heart attack when I saw A FUZZY LITTLE NEWBORN in the cage 

The cages are in an isolated, untrafficked area, so I've been going up every few hours to check, and things were going ok. Everytime I went, Scruffy was sitting on the baby, the baby was squeaking and moving around. Well I was out of the house for about 8 hours, came back and mom was on the other egg instead of the baby, and the baby was still breathing, but not moving a whole lot and not squeaking.

I took the other egg out of the cage (which Aias had TOLD me to do yesterday, and I didn't listen), and now am waiting to see if she goes back to the baby.

What to do? I'm not wholly convinced they're feeding the baby. Though I have no real reason to think they aren't (other than the baby's lethargy now)--I mean, I'm not really around to see. I guess I'm just not convinced about their parenting skills. But I REALLY was hoping not to have to get involved--too scary!! And Aias isn't here!! He's getting back Tuesday morning, but I'm worried about the baby making it till then.

We have some OLD formula (like a year, and probably not in an airtight container)...it's been at least a year since we've even dealt with a squeaker. 

Uggghhhh!! What should I do?

ok going upstairs to go peek now...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Scruffy is right next to baby...??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

OK..puit the egg back under the mom and take the baby out. Warm the baby on a heating pad set on low or by holding it in your hands. When you feel more activity and know it is warmed up, switch baby out with the egg. The baby won't make a lot of noise at this stage but just give it a few days!
If after all this, they abandon the baby we'll just take it from there.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

oh dear...in my panic, the egg rolled off into a box full of junk, I don't know where it is...I guess I was going to have to search for it anyway, I just didn't want to disturb things up there for now...ok will go look for it.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

It's pretty hot up there, about 85 degrees...you think the baby still might be cold? Or maybe the lethargy is lack of feeding?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok when i went to look for the egg, she was on the baby...well she was on the baby's body, the head was sticking out from under her...
It IS night time...maybe that's why baby less active?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So nerve-wracking!!!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sounds like she is doing what she is supposed to do. I know it's nerve-wracking but I would just leave them alone and not disturb them unless you think they abandon the baby.
Tomorrow, pick up some fresh Exact. You can put it in the freezer and it will last much longer and you will always have it when you need it. As much as we plan to not have oops babies ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sabina, calm down, or you won't make it til Aias gets home. LOL. Most pigeons are good parents. They'll probably do fine. If you aren't sure they are feeding it, check to see if it's crop is full. But don't worry. Think positive thoughts. Try to watch some tomorrow, and see if you can see them feeding the baby. If you do see them feeding, then you'll feel better.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Charis and Jay...I'm going to turn off the lights and go to sleep...gulp. Everytime I go to check (since the baby was born), I swear, I get palpitations. I'm really scared for the morning, hope everything will be ok! But there's not really anything I can do now, I can't feed it now anyway...so hopefully little one makes it! And Aias hurries up and gets here!!!
They must be feeding it if it was squeaking this morning, and was born yesterday morning, right? It wouldn't have made it this long without being fed...right? 
Neither Oscar or Scruffy are the brightest bulbs in the bunch (Scruffy especially), so i think that's what makes me worry more...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hopefully, their instinct will take over and it sounds like it is. The best thing to do right now is to resist moving them and checking.
Peeking in the room is OK to make sure they are on the baby.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok I know I said I was going to sleep but...this is the first little hatchling we've had in our 3 years with pigeons (not counting Biko since she wasn't born in the house)...and the first pigeon parents we've had.
Do they feed them at night in the dark? How often do they usually feed the babies?
i HIGHLY doubt i'll see them feeding--the pigeons are Aias', if he's here, I don't touch them. So they don't even know me (have highly resented my presence the last 3 weeks).
Ok will update in am...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think they do feed the newly hatched babies ib the night.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, they're not really that energetic for several days--I don't see anything to worry about so far. And at 85 degrees in the house, that little guy ain't going to get cold enough to really worry about. There's a lot of the time when they're that young that they don't move or peep much. You can just compare him to an egg and you should see some quite rapid growth in those first couple of days--in a fairly short period of time (a day or two), they WON'T fit back in the egg anymore.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Well, they're not really that energetic for several days--I don't see anything to worry about so far.
> 
> *And at 85 degrees in the house, that little guy ain't going to get cold enough to really worry about. *
> 
> ...


Sabina,
*If* the baby isn't being 'warmed' by Mom or Dad, then '_direct_' supplemental heat *is *necessary. The room temperature alone isn't enough to maintain the baby's body temperature. 

This is taken in part from the following link, Providing Heat to Orphaned Birds.
*Since baby birds have difficulty regulating their body temperature, wrapping them in a towel or keeping them in a warm room is not enough. They need a heat source*.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/providing-heat-to-orphaned-birds-13599.html

Cindy


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well...baby made it through the night. But mom was next to the baby, not on the baby right now. And the baby was trying to snuggle into mom's wing. Mom is all puffed like she's sitting on something, but there's nothing there. I did hear a squeak...and the baby is moving around...so must be ok?
I have to go to work, will be out of the house next 12 hours, so nothing I can really do again at this point.
Hopefully, Scruffy will step up and be a good mom. As for Oscar, he seems to be pretty good-for-nothing, isn't he supposed to be helping too?!
Thanks everyone for the help!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I will pick up some new formula on my way home, just in case...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I was just looking at the pigeon development pictures, and I don't think this baby is growing as fast as it should. And i don't think the crop looks full. I think Scruffy and Oscar might be very bad parents. But on the other hand, maybe I'm just being super anxious...I don't want to take the baby away if they actually are taking care of it. 
I guess I'll see what is happening when I get back tonight.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Seen it a million times, Sabina.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's always difficult to know when to step in. They don't fill them up to nearly popping when they're only a day old, though.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks, Pidgey. You figure if it's made it this far, the parents must be doing something right. 
24 hours till Aias gets back!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, no, you can't exactly say that with any real certainty... just that you see a lot of times when their (parents) behavior worries the crud out of you and it turns out just fine. I have found setting the incubator that I use at 90 works fairly well and having it at 95 actually overheats them. The house temperature is always closer to 70 and they're breathing cool air. When the actual room temperature's at 85, you're just not that far off. If you have the egg itself or one just like it, you can use it for a size comparison. One of the general comments is that they're usually twice as big within 48 hours but that ain't saying very much. That's not twice as long--it's twice as big. For an object to be twice as big in three dimensions, it's actually visibly larger by only the cube root of two in any one direction, which is 26%. So, if sitting there the chick looks one inch long, then he'll only look 1 1/4" long when he's theoretically twice the size.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well I just went back up there, and mom or dad was on the baby, and the other one escaped! I must've left the cage open after feeding them this am in all my panic. So now I have an undiapered bird flying around! (Aias would be horrified, I can't even tell Oscar and Scruffy apart sometimes.) Alright let me see if I can round whoever it is back into the cage.
Pidgey, i am horribly unobservant, if you can't tell by the above...I have no idea how much this baby has grown.
Ok maybe the parents aren't so bad...whoever it is went back to the cage, wanted to go back in (that rounding up wasn't so hard).
I think i can go to work feeling relatively calm now. Baby is squeaking. Someone is sitting on him. My work is done. (I hope!)


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*looks like YOU are going to be a good mom!*

ha ha!  stop worrying it will be alright.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Aias said:


> ha ha!  stop worrying it will be alright.


I'm sorry Sabina, but I have to say I'm all wound up aswell worrying about this little one !!!  I can feel your worry.
I've loved your posts, just like a thriller, got me sittng on the edge of my seat.

I wish you all the best outcome with this baby, I hope it makes it, you need the rest!!!

Oh and it looks like you've been rumbled by Aias regarding the diaperless escapee aswell!

Janet


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Aias said:


> ha ha!  stop worrying it will be alright.


Hmmph! Easy for you to say, you're not looking at that tiny scrawny thing!

Well i THINK it's ok. When I got home just now, I turned on the light and at first the baby was right in front of Scruffy, and I could see that it was breathing. Then when I got closer, Scruffy got on top of the baby. No squeaks tonight and no moving around in those few seconds I saw it...but it is nighttime, it was probably sleeping.

I will stop calling it IT at some point, I promise!

I did get the Exact, so I have it in case of emergency. I'm not really noticing much growth, but maybe Aias can get more hands-on since the birds are used to him. He should be able to observe more.

Janet--glad it seemed like a thriller and not hysteria!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

OK went up this morning at 8:30am, baby is sleeping...doing those little sleep twitches...but this time i could tell the crop looked good. It's not empty anyway.

And GET THIS...Aias is coming TOMORROW, not today. He had his dates mixed up. I had to start a whole new countdown. And the cage is in dire shape, I haven't wanted to clean it since the baby was born...and I was about to clean it when I figured out there WAS a baby. But mom and dad act like bloody murder when I feed them, so I'm afraid they'll trample the baby or something if I try to clean it (they scramble away, act all crazy)...well it's just 24 more hours till he gets here now....


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My advice to you would be to stop by the store for a six-pack of root beer...

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Phew, well as long as your advice isn't to clean the cage anyway...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Just thought I'd let you all know...baby's still ok! And now Aias is getting home in less than 12 hours FOR SURE. YAY


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Save at least one bottle of root beer for 'im!

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok poor baby has splayed legs now. I was so concerned with him just staying alive that i didn't think for a second about having proper cage conditions. I just forgot entirely. A couple days ago, we finally put a bowl with a towel in it for him, but he wriggles out. So I looked at Terry's links and and am going to buy a makeup sponge to put his legs through, that seems like the easiest and simplest solution.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

i feel everything is OK the pigeons are best when it comes to babies handling the chick many times may make it restless for both the parents and baby, just leave them to their doing they feed the baby with crop milk every now and then and the baby will not move oo much atleast for next 1.5 weeks so cool down and dont disturb them too much


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

for the leg situation you can used soft sand in a bowl so that he does not put his legs too apart away from body and lies their in a comfortable position the mother or father will timely adjust to feed the chick under them and everything will be alright


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sabina, can you post a picture of the babies legs? If they are splayed, they can be fixed. But just letting them go, they could get worse.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Sorry, am a little bad with the technology without Aias (away again!)...but the legs come straight out from the sides of his body, basically at right angles/perpendicular from the body. Definitely does not look right!


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi Sabina,

You've probably seen this already, but just in case...
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/splayed-legs-38260.html?highlight=splayed

In this thread, various methods are discussed, and Charis posted a link that actually shows you how to do it.

This little one always gives you a fright when you're on your own... not fair!

All the best for the two of you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How is the baby doing? Have you done anything about the legs?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well have been using the sponge for a little while now...the baby still pulls himself around and the legs still splay a bit with the sponge on. So we were thinking of doing the tape method like Cynthia did with Gonzo in the links. Do you think regular cloth surgical tape is ok to use?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You need to check them everyday for good circulation, and change the bandage. Don't use something that will stick to his legs, and pull the skin when you remove the tape. What about self adhesive bandage, or whatever it is that sticks to itself, but not the bird. Or put a wrap around the legs first, than bandage. That way when you remove it, it won't pull on his skin. You can also put him in a bowl, so he will stay put. Make a donut to go around him with a small towel or cloth, and sit him in the middle of it. You need to keep the legs in a "normal" position, or they won't grow straight.
Can you post a picture?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Jay3. We've been trying various methods--sponge, wrapping gauze around the legs and taping, both together...One leg is significantly better, but the other is still splayed. So we're going to take the baby today to Wild bird Fund and have a rehabber help us out.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's good. Hope they can help. Please let us know how it goes.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well the visit didn't go all that well...the rehabber said she didn't have much hope that the legs could be fixed...she said the leg was turned at the hip, knee, and foot. And that the baby is a little old (her name is Suki by the way)--she's 3 weeks now. We've been treating her for a week. She did double taping, which is similar to what we had been doing lately--we had put the sponge on the top and taped the legs at the bottom. I asked what would happen if it didn't work--she said they end up tearing their wings up and their breastbone. Or that sometimes they have to amputate a leg.
But it seems other people have been able to fix splayed legs in older pigeons, no?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ya know, it's kind of hard without a picture. Splayed legs can be fixed at 3 weeks, but I have no idea, without being able to see the bird.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

i kinda knew you were going to say that! i'm sorry we haven't posted any pictures so far. well, when we have to retape the bird, we'll take a picture then. i don't think a pic with the tape would be too helpful.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sabina said:


> i kinda knew you were going to say that! i'm sorry we haven't posted any pictures so far. well, when we have to retape the bird, we'll take a picture then. i don't think a pic with the tape would be too helpful.


Well, you've had lots of time to post a picture, but you haven't. I don't know how you can expect anyone to help if they are doing it blind.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

Sabina dont give up hope.....and Jay, some people dont have a camera handy or have other problems in life,...please at least shes trying.

I'm dealing with an older baby, fledged with a severely Splayed leg ( a feral given to me)...I refuse to give up...I hope that the brace works...

if not she'll have a limp, as long as you can live with a handicapped bird, try your best with the resources you have. good luck and dont blame yourself, but make sure they have great nutrition, sun(for vitamin D) and calcium.

keep us posted.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

psychopomp said:


> Sabina dont give up hope.....and Jay, some people dont have a camera handy or have other problems in life,...please at least shes trying.


Well, with all due respect to you, it is impossible to know how bad the legs are, or give asked for advice, if you have no idea of how bad the situation is. If you want help, or opinions, you have to make it as clear as you can, and without pictures, it is impossible to give an opinion.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

sabina said:


> But it seems other people have been able to fix splayed legs in older pigeons, no?


The older the pigeon, the harder it is Sabina. We really need to see some pics but based on what you've posted, I have to say that a happy outcome just with taping and splints is close to totally unlikely. If there is a way to fix this situation it will likely be by major surgery. JMO ..

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Well, you've had lots of time to post a picture, but you haven't. I don't know how you can expect anyone to help if they are doing it blind.


Well I actually didn't ask for help at any point except the last post (beyond asking what kind of tape to use). I was mostly updating on how the bird was doing. I knew the legs were splayed and had to be fixed. I thought it was a relatively straightforward process, in terms of just following the pictures in Terry's links. 

NOW I think it was more complicated than I initially thought..obviously since the bird seems to have gotten worse and not better. So now that I don't know what the outcome will be/what to do, am getting some pics ready to post now...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok here are the pics, they're in reverse chronological order on the page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/

i think the legs got worse while taped because of her pushing herself along. even though we tried to keep her immobilized in a bowl, she still got out.

so we wrapped her legs to her body with gauze to keep her immobilized right now...i'm a little apprehensive about it though, what do you think?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Just to make things more clear...

We started treating her a little over a week ago...we tried first with the sponge on the upper legs, like in the parrot link. Then we tried taping the legs on the bottom, like Cynthia's Gonzo. Then we tried both methods together. Then the rehabber at Animal General did a double hobble with tape a couple days ago, we haven't untaped since then. Now tonight, we wrapped gauze around the legs and body to keep her immobilized.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sabina...you need to check the legs every day and adjust the hobble as needed...this is critical because the bird is still growing and you don't want the legs to atrophy.
This bird has every possibility of recovery. I've seen them recover from worse.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, watch the legs, as with them held up like that constantly, you are running the risk that they will not come down into the normal position later.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> The older the pigeon, the harder it is Sabina. We really need to see some pics but based on what you've posted, I have to say that a happy outcome just with taping and splints is close to totally unlikely. If there is a way to fix this situation it will likely be by major surgery. JMO ..
> 
> Terry


I have to agree with Terry. 
The ones I have seen at the clinic could be fixed only with surgery.

Reti


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I don't know what else to do. Suki started with a straightforward splay, legs just going out to the sides. Then I think she got more twisted with all her pushing herself around while having either the sponge or tape on. She can get out of any bowl. Do you think we should do the "banana hammock" sort of thing, have her hanging instead?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Reti said:


> I have to agree with Terry.
> The ones I have seen at the clinic could be fixed only with surgery.
> 
> Reti


Catching it at an earlier age is better, but is three weeks all that old? I'm just asking, as I'm certainly no expert on this.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

updated photos of our attempts to keep that really bad foot immobilized.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/3814652315/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sabina, you can't do that with his legs. What you are doing, will make them contract. They will be bent that way. The idea with the taping is to get them to grow in a more natural position. If you bend them up like that, you will make them grow that way. They need to be taped and straight. Not bent. The reason he was getting out of the bowl before, is because it isn't deep enough. It should have been deep, so that his legs could go straight down. With a towel or some kind of cloth aound him, like a donut, to hold him securely in the bowl. You need to let his legs go straight.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sabina...I agree with Jay...this is not a good idea. If you choose to put the baby in a bowl...it needs to be deeper and only big enough to fit the body snuggly...possibly a clay flower pot. The other option is to make a snug donut shape out of a thick towel. ...secure the ends with tape and a towel underneath to provide traction for the feet.
Do you understand what I'm telling you?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is a picture os how it should be taped. 

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1193591190044786621MuWGtk

She needs to be put into a deep bowl afterwards that she cannot get out of. Like a heavy clay flowerpot or something, that she can't tip over. If you can't keep her confined that way, than maybe hanging her up would be better. But even in doing that, you have to be careful not to cut of her being able to breath and eat.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I was concerned about the immobilizing as well, and told Aias so he won't do it anymore. In any case, the parents took off the gauze and other contraption pretty quickly each time, so the baby spent very little time like that (less than an hour or two all together).

We re-taped tonight so the lower legs are a little closer together, like the Gonzo picture.

Thanks for the flowerpot idea Charis and Jay3. I was going to shop in the morning for a new bowl, so that makes my job easier. We'll get the flowerpot, put a towel at the bottom and a donut in it for the legs to hang straight in.

The biggest problem though is that the baby REALLY doesn't want to poop in the bowl. She will do anything to get out when she needs to poop. Her wing-flapping is getting pretty strong as well. If she can't get out of the bowl, then she starts to hold the poop then it starts to smell bad. If we're around, we'll take her out to poo (it's very obvious cause she gets all distressed trying to get out). But we're not here at least 10 hours a day. How is that going to work out?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You can try a donut shaped towel that isn't inside a pot too. You just need to use a big thick towel and it must fit the baby snuggly. With the taped legs, the baby won't be able to get out of it easily and should still be able to raise himself enough to poop over the back side of it. I wish I was there so i could show you how to do it.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Charis...We'll set it up in the morning and post a picture so you can let us know if we do it right.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Though I'm thinking if it's a big towel and it's in a donut shape, won't it be too thick for the baby to poop over the back?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You could mush the back down really tight and wrap it with duct tape to lower it more than the front.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sabina said:


> Though I'm thinking if it's a big towel and it's in a donut shape, won't it be too thick for the baby to poop over the back?


Well, if it is, then she'll just poop on the towel. Tuck some paper towels in there so that the poop will land on them. Then just change them out.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I put some new pictures up this morning: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina

The taping from last night was twisted by this morning...the knee was facing backwards. We re-taped and put her in the donut, but she can get out by flapping her wings and using the good foot for leverage. I'm home today so I can watch her...but that's just today.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Sorry some of the pics are sideways and a little hard to look at...


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Sabina,
After viewing your photos, I think a vet's evaluation would be worth considering. JMO

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Sabina,
> After viewing your photos, I think a vet's evaluation would be worth considering. JMO
> 
> Cindy


Sabina, I agree with Cindy.
The baby must be in pain and may benefit by pain management. You need a vet's direction as to the best way to correct the leg. Each day is critical at this point.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We did take the baby to Animal General last Saturday. The rehabber mentioned amputation, didn't say anything about surgery. The rehabbers there do handle complex care, including surgery. So that's where we've always taken all the birds. We've never seen an actual vet. You think we need to find a vet, not go back to Animal General?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to see a veterinarian.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I'll email the rehabber, see what she has to say. Though she seemed to think that if the taping didn't work, the bird might need to be PTS. I don't see why that would be the case...even if the leg has to be amputated, the baby should be able to have an ok life (though of course I want the leg to be saved/corrected if possible). I'll ask about surgery and also if the leg could be put into position some other way, wires, a cast, something...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I'll also ask about a vet.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Rehabbers can be overwhelmed and therefore concentrate efforts into birds that can be released. This is a bird that will remain with you and your husband and so thinking of the bird as releasable/unreleasable shouldn't be part of the consideration.
I agree that to keep the bird with a leg that's always in the way is not the best. if the leg can be corrected at this point, that obviously would be the best outcome. That being said, if the leg can't be corrected...I do have a one legged Roller, Cutie Pie, that does just fine. He's been without his leg for 5 years. Everyone...and I mean everyone, encouraged me to have him euthanized. I wouldn't do it. He is perfectly happy and enjoys his life.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Sabina,

The two vets who work with me on my rehab birds are Dr. Pilny and Dr. Pesek. They are both very good with pigeons and rehabbers. Dr. Pilny works at Animal Specialty Center in Yonkers Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and at Veterinary Internal Medicine and Allergy Specialists on the UES on Thursdays and Saturdays. Dr. Pesek is at East Islip Vet Group (LI) on Thursdays and Westbury Animal Hospital (LI) on Fridays. 

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We have an appt for tomorrow at 3pm at the Center for Avian and Exotic medicine (down block from Animal General). 
Thanks Charis, and thanks Jenfer for that information. The rehabber said this place had several pigeon clients so hopefully they'll be willing to fight for this bird and her leg!


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Sabina, I expect A&E will be considerably more expensive than either Pilny or Pesek (but it may be more convenient for you to travel to).

Good luck,
Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Jennifer--I sent you a PM with a couple questions....


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