# Loft Improvements



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Howdy there, I recently moved into a new house that had a shed in the backyard and, with my limited money options, decided to turn it into a loft.

I still have alot of work to do, but I'm hoping to make this as comfortable as possible!

Here's a shot of the loft from the outside. The previous owner didn't do a very good job with the roof as he used the wrong nails and left a corner of it incomplete. I've put up some trash bags in the meantime to hold out rain.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3869/p3200035.jpg

I just built this nest box yesterday, but ran out of wood for the top peice. I'll run to Home Depot shortly for a couple more planks so I can build another.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2202/p3200036.jpg

I had to be creative with this one. The bottom supposedly held lawn materials, but now it holds cobwebs. I'm still debating what to put in here.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6503/p3200037.jpg

Here is the top of the loft (sorry for the blurry shot). You can see nails coming through the wood since the previous owner used some really long screws to hold the shingles in place. I wetn ahead and nailed them down to prevent injuries to the birds. Also, if you look closely, you can see some water stains in the back. The wood is nice and solid, but I need to put more shingles to completely stop it.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5011/p3200038.jpg

I'll add some more pics shortly. Please, any suggestions would be a great help!


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry for the huge image sizes. I thought they would automatically re-size themselves. I apologize. 

Here's a pic of the floor. Unfortunately, the loft isn't elevated, so I may have a tough time with insects and such getting in.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2822/p3200042q.jpg

And finally, here's a pic on the side of the loft. It's nice and wide with lots of shade, so I'm debating if I should put something back there as well.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7827/p3200041v.jpg

Again, any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Omlet said:


> I just built this nest box yesterday, but ran out of wood for the top peice. I'll run to Home Depot shortly for a couple more planks so I can build another.
> 
> http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2202/p3200036.jpg


Hi Omlet,

You say in your post that you built the nest boxes yesterday, but there are eggs and hatchlings in the box. Did you move them there from another location? If so, are the breeders continuing to sit on the eggs/care for the babies? Everyone I have spoken with advises me not to move a nest, or the parents will abandon the eggs.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Maybe that why there's no bird on the nest. If I move my bowl to the other side of the nest box mine will abandon it.


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Me?

I'd start over...

But, if that's not an option... I'd at least add a bigger lip to the front of the nest boxes. The babies can fall out of there, and other birds might not be kind to a screaming baby on the floor. Or, you could build some 1/2 covers out of 1x2's and dowels, or use some of the creative solutions others have come up with as nest-box fronts... everything from platic netting, to old refrigerator shelves, to metal wire shelving. Spend a couple days reading every loft thread in this section... you'll see some amazing lofts, and see how others get by very effectively on much less.

Also, it is *imperative* to get something to use as a nest bowl, with enough traction material (pads, sticks, hay, sand- whatever) for the babies to push against. If you just let them sit on the boards like that with hay, they will develop "splay leg" where their legs don't develop properly. They will be permanently lame, and it is near impossible to fix. Paper nest bowls are very cheap from Foy's. I've also had good luck using platic dog dishes with Foy's nest pads in them for warmth and traction, with a little hay to soak up the droppings. The pads are washable and reuseable, as long as you don't let them get completely filthy.

I would figure out some way to keep them off the dirt, too. Bacteria and other diseases build up in the soil. Can you put a wood floor of some type in? Frame it with treated 2x4's or 2x6's... put down 3/4" plywood over that. I would also but some hardware wire (1/2" x 1/2" or so) under the treated base lumber to help keep vermin out.

Could you use the space behind the loft for an aviary or flight pen? Again, keep them off the ground if possible.

I'm all for using what you've got, as long as the birds are safe and secure. If disease, vermin, weather or predators can get to the birds, you might be setting yourself up for problems.

Good luck!

Don

P.S. As others have said... Moving eggs, nests, very young birds, etc. is playing with fire. Often, the parents will abandon the eggs or babies, and they will die.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

cbx1013 said:


> Me?
> 
> I'd start over...
> 
> ...


Not sure I agree that you need to start over. You just need to make sure that the nest boxes are big enough and can be defended. As to the requirement for a nest box: In the few short months that I have been involved with pigeons, I have seen hundreds of pigeons raising young in any imaginable number of places. This includes in nest boxes behind the nest bowl, on the floor, in a corner, in a feed tray, under a board leaning against the wall. Hay or other similar material makes a fine nest, and will provide good material to exercise the babies' feet.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

ptras said:


> Hi Omlet,
> 
> You say in your post that you built the nest boxes yesterday, but there are eggs and hatchlings in the box. Did you move them there from another location? If so, are the breeders continuing to sit on the eggs/care for the babies? Everyone I have spoken with advises me not to move a nest, or the parents will abandon the eggs.


Unfortunately, the parents refuse to sit on the eggs, so I had to take them out. During candling, none of the eggs seem to have any blood vessels or embryos, so I'm taking they were laid early. The babies are being fed by multiple pigeons, and the parents still sit on them periodically. 



cbx1013 said:


> Me?
> 
> I'd start over...
> 
> ...


Trust me, I'd start over if I could, but money is kinda tight right now. The lip of the nests will be changed today, and I'm also laying down a nice floor. It's currently concrete right now, but a hammer should fix it up easy.  I'm also going to try and elevate the cage using some concrete bases, but lifting up this thing will be a challenge; it weighs tons!

The back is very spacious, so I think it's possible to add an aviary or flight pen. It will indeed be off the ground. 

Thank you all for your suggestions!


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Why not put a raised floor over the concrete 4" that can be removed in sections to clean under. you could still walk in it.


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

ptras said:


> As to the requirement for a nest box: In the few short months that I have been involved with pigeons, I have seen hundreds of pigeons raising young in any imaginable number of places. This includes in nest boxes behind the nest bowl, on the floor, in a corner, in a feed tray, under a board leaning against the wall. Hay or other similar material makes a fine nest, and will provide good material to exercise the babies' feet.


Ptras:

We'll have to agree to disagree re: nest bowls. My experience was that the hay or bedding will quickly get knocked out of the box, or scooted to the sides, leaving the chicks on bare wood. Now, if you could line the box with something like old carpet or whatever (throw it out frequently, of course) or get the bedding deep enough- you could be fine.

If the chicks can't get purchase enough to get their feet under them, the legs will not develop- they just kick out to the sides and grow that way.
If they ever have a splayed-leg chick, they'll quickly learn the value of inexpensive nest bowls of some type. Yes, pigeons can and do lay eggs everywhere and anywhere- often with success. They are also prolific breeders and will abandon a baby that they identify as "flawed."

One of the great values of this forum is if we will share our failures and problems we've experienced to prevent others from having to go through it. Their nest boxes are similar to the first nest boxes I had... I had problems with that design, and lost a few chicks because of what I identified as flaws in the design. Splay-leg, chicks falling out and getting killed, eggs getting damaged, other birds trampling the eggs at feeding time... I made it work, but I had to change some things, and my new loft will incorporate a much different setup.

FWIW, "Start over" was tongue-in-cheek. It will likely be a fine loft when they are completed with the modifications. ...and I did qualify that with "...if it was me."

Don


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Why not put a raised floor over the concrete 4" that can be removed in sections to clean under. you could still walk in it.


That is a great idea if the floor is already concrete... I thought it was dirt.

Shadybug did a great tutorial on doweled flooring:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/t...oden-slate-floor-by-shadybug-lofts-45695.html

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Don


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Omlet said:


> Unfortunately, the parents refuse to sit on the eggs, so I had to take them out. During candling, none of the eggs seem to have any blood vessels or embryos, so I'm taking they were laid early. The babies are being fed by multiple pigeons, and the parents still sit on them periodically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I says its concrete now or did I read it wrong


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Quick question, I was thinking about perhaps taking the shingles off since they aren't nailed in right. Is there a cheap type of roof I can use?


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Omlet said:


> Quick question, I was thinking about perhaps taking the shingles off since they aren't nailed in right. Is there a cheap type of roof I can use?


Cheapest is probably asphalt/fiberglass shingles. I would go with cedar shakes...mostly for looks. You can buy "seconds" at either Home Depot or Lowes for $18 to $20 a square. One square will cover 100 square feet.

Don't let the "seconds" designation scare you. They're fine shingles and will protect the building for thirty years.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

ptras said:


> Cheapest is probably asphalt/fiberglass shingles. I would go with cedar shakes...mostly for looks. You can buy "seconds" at either Home Depot or Lowes for $18 to $20 a square. One square will cover 100 square feet.
> 
> Don't let the "seconds" designation scare you. They're fine shingles and will protect the building for thirty years.


Thanks! I'll be sure to look into it. 

Also, I have another question. I would like to get the loft off the ground using cinder blocks, but the person who whose helping me said the cage could tip over easily. The interior of the loft in concrete, but the base of the cage is sitting in soil. I just lifted it up using a jack and could see signs of rot, but nothing severe.

Me being stubborn, I would like to put the loft on these blocks. Is it a good idea? I'll be putting in the new floor on Saturday, but I would like to get this thing off the ground as soon as possible.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What size is it?


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What do you mean the shingles aren't nailed right. Oh i see


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Just replace the ones that need fixed lift them up and remove the old ones and replace with the new ones and where it isn't finished just finish. It minimal cost 1 bundle of shingles


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> What size is it?


I don't have my tape measure right now, but I've included a pic:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6774/p3210001.jpg

I'll include some measurements in a bit.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2010)

a ply wood floor could easily be jigsawed out and put in before you even raised this loft off the ground , but thats just the way I would do it unless you wanted it to be a wired floor which could be done just as easily as long as you put some cross beams in across the floor but I would take the birds out first just in case and to make the transition easier


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

My new one is 6x8 and I'm not worried about it toppling over but if its like 3x6 it may.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

So I finally finished getting this thing off the ground and putting a floor down. I think I'll use the doweled flooring idea for the outside aviary since I didn't have enough time to go out and buy the supplies before I had to go away.

Anywho, here's a pic of the loft outside:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8746/p3240002w.jpg

Here is the floor. I ran out of plywood so had to use strips. I'll see if I can find another piece:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2140/p3240003o.jpg

I put some more boxes in and ordered a bunch of paper bowls for each one. They should be here by Wednesday:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5383/p3240004.jpg

I decided to turn the old chicken coop into a small storage area. I put the food and such in there for now:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/831/p3240006e.jpg

Lastly, I cleaned up the side and am planning the aviary. I was thinking of putting wire over that concrete slab and putting the food over it, that way I can just sweep up dropped food:

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/986/p3240005.jpg

As always, let me know if I should change anything. Thanks!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You're getting there, but one thing, I would never feed the birds in the aviary. It attracts animals more. Better to feed them in the loft. Does it get sun there, because an aviary should be sunny. They need sunshine.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> You're getting there, but one thing, I would never feed the birds in the aviary. It attracts animals more. Better to feed them in the loft. Does it get sun there, because an aviary should be sunny. They need sunshine.


I honestly think we get too much sun! I'm in Florida, so there's plenty of sunshine to go around. Thanks for the advice on the aviary, I'll be sure to only feed them inside the loft.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

That looks good it should work well for you


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Hey! Very nice work, looks good!

I agree, food in the loft. Perhaps put the waterer in the aviary, especially if the birds will have constant access to the aviary. Keeps the moisture out of your floor.

Be careful with storing your food in a plastic bin, especially if there's any way for mice or squirrels to get access to it. They can chew through those bins- believe it ot not. I use a smaller metal garbage can.

I take it that the birds don't ever go under the loft? You could always turn the blocks sideways, and put some of that lattice across the bottom if they do...

Otherwise, very nice. Good luck!

Don


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you all for the comments! I seem to be having an issue though. Today was a very rainy day, and this happened to show up in the loft: 

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8505/p3250007.jpg

I put some towels over it to see if I can soak up some water, but rain getting into the loft is no good. I was thinking about boarding up all four sides of the loft, but all that wire would go to waste since it's bolted in using some two-pronged nails and would require cutting the inside wire. Would anyone have a creative solution to keeping the rain out? I was thinking of making some type of canopy over these two sides so the rain just slides off. Anyway, here are the photos:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2224/p3250008.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7569/p3250009.jpg

I'm also going to Home Depot a bit later to pick up some wood to make some perches. I'm also looking into some metal roofing I saw in the forums. 

Thanks!


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

You can nail metal roofing over the shingles.


----------



## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> You can nail metal roofing over the shingles.


If you go that route you could extend it another 6 to 8 inches from the eves and give a little more protection.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Omlet said:


> Thank you all for the comments! I seem to be having an issue though. Today was a very rainy day, and this happened to show up in the loft:
> 
> http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8505/p3250007.jpg
> 
> ...




If you mean that you attached the wire with heavy staples, you can pry them up and pull them out with pliers.


----------



## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> If you mean that you attached the wire with heavy staples, you can pry them up and pull them out with pliers.


Or you could the plywood over the wire that way you could pull it down when it is really nice out.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

newtobirds said:


> Or you could the plywood over the wire that way you could pull it down when it is really nice out.


That's an idea.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Omlet said:


> Thank you all for the comments! I seem to be having an issue though. Today was a very rainy day, and this happened to show up in the loft:
> 
> http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8505/p3250007.jpg
> 
> ...


I recall someone on this forum who was looking for some type of roll-down shade thingy (awning?) to protect the open sides of their loft. They were in California, so didn't have weather extremes. Depending on where you are, this might be an option.


----------



## blackknight01 (Feb 20, 2010)

you should definatelly paint you loft because with that weather the wood wont last long.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

blackknight01 said:


> you should definatelly paint you loft because with that weather the wood wont last long.


That's a good point.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

blackknight01 said:


> you should definatelly paint you loft because with that weather the wood wont last long.


Is there a certain waterproof paint I can get at Home Depot or Lowes? 

The awnings at Home Depot are kinda steep in price. I'd much rather use paint or craft something that will keep the rain out.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Omlet said:


> Is there a certain waterproof paint I can get at Home Depot or Lowes?
> 
> The awnings at Home Depot are kinda steep in price. I'd much rather use paint or craft something that will keep the rain out.


Paint is fine for the exterior, but it looked like the rain was getting in to your loft.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

ptras said:


> Paint is fine for the exterior, but it looked like the rain was getting in to your loft.


Very true. I would rather not have any wood exposed, but that might be tough. It would have to be something that can withstand some intense wind and rain. I'm in Fort Lauderdale and hurricanes can do some pretty serious damage. I still have to secure the loft down or a good wind can topple it.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I don't understand why all these people build these lofts with wire all the way around and expect rain not to get in. I just don't understand the logic behind it. I'm sorry if i stepped on any toes but its true.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I don't understand why all these people build these lofts with wire all the way around and expect rain not to get in. I just don't understand the logic behind it. I'm sorry if i stepped on any toes but its true.


The shed was built like that. It's possible for me to close up all four sides, but on nice days it's nice to look into the loft. I can believe it's not comfortable to have a damp floor, but I'm willing to try to improve it.


----------



## blackknight01 (Feb 20, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I don't understand why all these people build these lofts with wire all the way around and expect rain not to get in. I just don't understand the logic behind it. I'm sorry if i stepped on any toes but its true.


shady you should try to do a close loft with no wire around here in arizona and see if your birds make it to the next day.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

I should also add that the top and middle of the loft NEVER get wet. I'm only having issues with the floor, so anything that can stop the rain from getting to the floor would be great!


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

There are ways to build them with lots of wire for ventilation. Put the wire 3' down from the top all the way around with a large overhang would probably work and be dry. Try plenty of openings , fans on thermostats.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, would putting wood half way up stop most of the rain from coming in? You could leave the wire on, and just put wood over it to about 3 feet up. Most of the rain blows in toward the bottom. Rain never comes in my large windows, but the storm door I use for a door, has a window that is only about 1 1/2 feet from the floor, and if I didn't close that low window when it rains, it would wet the floor near the door. I think if you did that, plus add an over hang to the roof, it would keep it dry. Unless the rain was really blowing sideways.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shadybug, I think we were posting at the same time, and with the same idea. LOL.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Well, would putting wood half way up stop most of the rain from coming in? You could leave the wire on, and just put wood over it to about 3 feet up. Most of the rain blows in toward the bottom. Rain never comes in my large windows, but the storm door I use for a door, has a window that is only about 1 1/2 feet from the floor, and if I didn't close that low window when it rains, it would wet the floor near the door. I think if you did that, plus add an over hang to the roof, it would keep it dry. Unless the rain was really blowing sideways.


I could do that. I could just nail plywood over the wire, correct? I have some pressure treated wood, but would water rot it easily?


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2010)

I would not add plywood to that side that is open but I would put this stuff from the home depot so light could still get in but the rain would stay out , its cheap and easy to screw on over the wire and no painting to keep it from rotting away  http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't like pressure treated wood around birds, but I know some use it. I would get a good Exterior latex paint and paint the wood, a couple of coats, then let it dry for a few days before putting it on the loft. The paint fumes will bother the birds if you paint it after putting it on the loft. The paint will protect the wood for a long time. Actually, if you use a latex exterior primer, then paint the wood, the paint will stay on longer.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> I would not add plywood to that side that is open but I would put this stuff from the home depot so light could still get in but the rain would stay out , its cheap and easy to screw on over the wire and no painting to keep it from rotting away  http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


I didn't see this when I commented. This would work. Waterproof and rot proof. Good idea.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> I didn't see this when I commented. This would work. Waterproof and rot proof. Good idea.


i have this on my parts of my flypens and it works very well plus keeps the hawks from attaching themselves to the wire at the same time


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Alrighty, so I took a trip to Home Depot to check out some Ondura and that PVC clear roofing panel. I may check out Lowes for prices, but I think I can get this stuff by next week.

I also recieved some of my nest bowls today, but I have a few questions. I removed the old material and put it in these bowls. However, I'm afraid that a baby can climb out and get stuck between the bowl and the corner. Is this an issue? Also, should I put material under and around the bowl as well? I could imagine that two big baby birds can't fit in that little nest and would eventually lay on the wood instead.

Here are some pics:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc301/Deadpencil/P3270012.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc301/Deadpencil/P3270011.jpg

Thanks! I'll keep you all posted!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What are you using for nest bowls? They look small. You leave the nesting materials where they can get them, and let them add it to their nest box or nest bowl.Unless you have a pair that doesn't use enough. Then you can always add more. Not enought nesting material can cause splayed leg.


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

The nest bowls you've got look small... what is the diameter in inches? The babies generally don't move around too much, at least until they're 3 weeks or so... The nest is their "comfort zone."

I've used these with good success for eggs and up to 3 weeks old. They're nice because I can clean them out if they're not too nasty, or put a little sand in the bottom. If they're too nasty, or I'm feeling lazy- I can just toss them and grab a fresh one.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/390.html

I've also got a couple of these, but you need to use a nest pad with them.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/442.html

I use these nest pads with the plastic weave bowls...

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/1427.html

They can be hand washed, bleached and sun-dried- and then re-used. I get several rounds out of each, but I always wash and disinfect between rounds.

I was also fortunate to get some large Purina plastic dog bowls at a seminar... they make awesome nest bowls with the above coconut pads. Easy to wash and disinfect.

For nesting materials I use the pads with hay. In the smaller paper bowls, I use sand and hay. I offer the birds twigs and large pine needles. They will also mix in feathers. They waste an incredible amount of material through the bottom of my old coop... I found it easier to do it myself when I clean the coop. I have extra bowls, so I just grab a clean one, fill it with stuff, plop the babies in it, and whisk away the old one for cleaning.

I try to not generally touch it the last few days prior to hatching, or until after I've banded the babies. You risk putting the parents off if you disrupt them during this critical phase. Beyond that, mine don't seem to care. They jump in the fresh bowl, check the eggs or babies, re-arrange a little, and settle down.

Don


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

cbx1013 said:


> The nest bowls you've got look small... what is the diameter in inches? The babies generally don't move around too much, at least until they're 3 weeks or so... The nest is their "comfort zone."
> 
> I've used these with good success for eggs and up to 3 weeks old. They're nice because I can clean them out if they're not too nasty, or put a little sand in the bottom. If they're too nasty, or I'm feeling lazy- I can just toss them and grab a fresh one.
> 
> ...


Those weave bowls look awesome! The reason I ordered the smaller bowls in because the nest is 6" from back to front with the lip. Without the lip, it measures 9".


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Oh, I gotcha.

Any way to put the lip across the front to save more of the shelf space?

Most of the nest bowls are going to be 9-10" across, or so it seems.

Don


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. You could run the board across the outside of the front, rather than in between the 2 side boards. That would give them almost another inch of shelf space. Not much, but when they only have 6 inches to nest on, every inch you can give them is a blessing. 6 inches really isn't much.


----------



## Omlet (Aug 3, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Yes. You could run the board across the outside of the front, rather than in between the 2 side boards. That would give them almost another inch of shelf space. Not much, but when they only have 6 inches to nest on, every inch you can give them is a blessing. 6 inches really isn't much.


I can easily cut another piece of wood and bring it across the front. I've been going crazy looking for bowls that will fit, but no luck. 

Someone at the local club said I should try corn cobs part of the pigeon diet. I ran out and bought a bag, but it said it's used as a litter though it non-toxic. Is it ok to use?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't use corncob bedding, but some will probably come in and say they do. Here is one article on it.

Corn Cobs - Once ingested, corn cobs can remain in the body for years before causing illness or death. Ingested corn cobs absorb moisture and swell, which can cause impaction, bleeding and death. Baby birds can also develop bacteria and yeast infections from the ingested material. When wet or in humid climates, cobs can grow Aspergillus molds which cause a respiratory disease in birds. This disease is difficult to treat and can be fatal. The cobs will also absorb moisture from your bird's droppings, promoting growth of organisms and hiding loose poops. It's a poor material for examining droppings. 

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww12eiii.htm


----------

