# pox on baby?



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Aias and I were in the park today releasing Frida, the canker bird, when Aias noticed a pigeon that seemed a little sick. He was a little greasy looking and his tail feathers were dragging while he was eating. The pigeons were climbing all over our feet to eat the seeds so he was easy to pick up. 

Anyway at home, we looked at the throat, it was clear, the poops had white urates and had a dark formed part with some water around it, no mites, and when the bird got loose by accident, he was pretty feisty/hard to catch while flying around the kitchen, so we were thinking maybe the bird just needed some r+r, nutrition and some basic meds for a few days. 

But then, when Aias was giving the bird a bath, he found a growth on his shoulder. Is it pox? I remember something about some other infection causing boils on the shoulder. Anyway, here are some pictures, if you click and look at the full-size pics, hopefully someone can tell us what it is and what we should do! Thanks.
http://flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/pox/

Oh also, after we picked up this bird, we saw another pigeon with what looked like pox on his beak area so maybe it's going around? Oh and one other thing, when this baby got loose, Biko was pecking at him. Do we have to worry about Biko getting pox now??

Sabina


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

The picture was fuzzy, but it looked almost like a scab from a wound. Paratyphoid/salmonellosis can cause boils at the joints, but I'm not sure that's what this bird has. I think pox lesions are usually around the face and feet, but I haven't actually seen it in person. By all means, keep this pigeon quarantined from your other birds. 

If pox, you can't treat it because it's a virus but there are some medications to help dry up the lesions. However I'm not convinced this is pox. Can you get a clearer photo?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, we've only ever had one pox pigeon (knock on wood) so I'm not that familiar with the disease but, like Cathy, I thought of a wound. Wonder if he had been attacked earlier by a hawk.


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi Sabina,

Yes, usually pox is on beak, eyes, feet, but that object on shoulder almost does look like pox. I think there is an outbreak going around because I'm on my fourth pox bird right now and I'm not that far from you. Technically it's transferable by mosquito bites (not flat flies). I'm thinking that there are so many late season cases because we had so much warm weather into October. I just took Fridgie to the vet and talked about having two birds (one with pox, one without) flying around the same room (not at the same time) and if the healthy one could pick up pox if he landed in the same areas that the other one had been in. He said it was believed that once a bird starts showing lesions they pretty much are not shedding the virus anymore or are very low in the transmittable phase. He had mentioned once before that if a pox bird's lesions are bleeding and another bird comes into contact with that it might spread the virus. Or if you touch a bloody lesion, then touch a healthy bird, it could spread that way. Just wash your hands well and keep the birds apart. I have mine only 4 or 5 feet apart, but I cover the cage of one when I have to handle one or if one is flying around the room. Also there is a thread on this forum about using Thuja oil and Thuja homeopathic pills on pox birds. I'm going out to get some now. I tried using Betadine solution (10 drops in a half a cup of warm water), but it almost seems as if it's keeping the pox from drying up. It could be that the pox itself just isn't ready to dry up yet. Not sure. Good luck.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Birdmom, Maggie, and Zenmont. The pictures must be pretty bad cause it doesn't seem at all like a wound. The lesion is about 1 cm high/diameter, round, and brown with a sort of cauliflower appearance. We'll have to take more pics.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

sabina said:


> Thanks Birdmom, Maggie, and Zenmont. The pictures must be pretty bad cause it doesn't seem at all like a wound. The lesion is about 1 cm high/diameter, round, and brown with a sort of cauliflower appearance. We'll have to take more pics.


Hi sabina,

I have never seen actual pox, but the little bit my youngsters got topically around the site where we applied their pox vaccine, was kind of swollen, beige in color and dry and rough looking.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Treesa...this is definitely brown not beige so I don't know.

Well if you look at the link now there are pics which are much more clear...

http://flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/pox/

Any new thoughts? Thanks!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the much clearer pictures. Unfortunately, I'm still not sure what that is. It could be pox, but it is in a very strange place for a pox lesion. It could also be matter that has built up over a foreign object like a thorn or matter that has grown over/out of a wound. 

I guess I would treat it with a drying agent like diluted Betadine and see if it dries up and falls off. Can you tell if the tissue around the base of that growth is healthy looking?

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Terry. The skin around it does look healthy, and there are feathers sort of growing out of the lesion. But it looks like this is an AG bird, we'll have to call there tomorrow to see if they're around this weekend--given we really don't know what this is. So we'll keep you all posted as to what they say!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Here in Miami most birds, doves and pigeons do get pox. I guess due to the mosquitos all year round. Most of my birds had it and I have seen it on the wings, and rest of the body. Usually in short time more lesions appear and mostly on the face and legs. If he was attacked by a bird with pox it is possible he got it only on the wing.
My vet recommends corn remover solution (the one sold OTC in the drug stores for corn on the toes). It really dries the pox out in no time. Only thing you can't apply it on the head/face and when applying you have to be very careful not to apply on healthy tissue as it will burn.
Tea tree oil is another good pox healer.
Thuja occidentalis shortens the duration of the disease.

Reti


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

A little update...Aias fed the pijie who we named Pablo 20 ml of formula last night, and this am, saw that he had thrown it up, along with seeds and half a french fry  So today he only fed 10 cc at a time every 4-5 hours, and he hasn't thrown up again.

Aias called Animal General, no one is around this weekend. He spoke to one of the rehabbers Gloria, who suggested that we drain the lesion. However, it appears very dry to me, I don't see what can be drained exactly. So we'll wait for his appointment on Monday.

Reti, thanks for the pox info. I think we'll wait to find out what it actually is before we try to do anything though.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Its pox alright, my birds get em on the wing too. Best is to use a drying anti bacteria agent. betadine does good too.

We have a remady that we use on fighting cock wounds. Mix some chilli powder with a strong water solution. Some mix with coconut oil too and make a paste. use a brush and apply daily. The boil should try up very fast, be careful not to apply on the eyes. If you have a little bit of cinnamon you can add that too. It really works.....


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Yes, the lesion can be drained too but its messy. Although some say its not good it has really helped my birds but the main issue is once its performed the bird looks really hacked out and bloody. 
The leasion can be pulled off with your fingers. Remove the while thing completely. You will see little volcanoes which you may need to use something like a key and press against the base. Its like squeezing a pimple. a over sized white head like ball will pop out. You must remove all. there can be up to around 12 such small valcanoes. Look in the other part of the body too for lesions and do all together. 

Apply betadine 2 times daily, you may have to hand feed it for 3 days as it may not eat. I have good success rate for pox this way. Another good drying thing is tinture of iodine but this too need to be applied once the wound is opened and cleaned out.

hope this helps


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

By the way, I live in Sri lanka, medication is very rare. Everything is tried and tested and something that we can do at home.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Those are interesting remedies, Warrie. My friend, Bart, (and many old time bird and animal people) swears by Blu-Kote. The primary ingredient in Blu-Kote is Gentian Violet, and it stains everything a bluish/purple. Makes a huge mess of feathers and fur (and you if you get it on you), but it does work for many things: http://www.calvetsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=704

Terry


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Gentian Volet works well longs asyou can get it onto the lesion so opening the lesion is a must.

Best part about abut gentian violent is that once the stain goes the bird is cured. its like an indicator or alarm.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Birdmom and Maggie, it looks like you were right. Rita at AG thought the scab/lesion might've been from an old wound. According to Aias, she took it off with minimal bleeding. She also said Pablo has a bad yeast infection, he was given Nystatin for that. And lots of gram-negative bacteria for which he was given Clavamox. 
That is the latest!
Sabina


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks for the update. Glad it is not pox.

Reti


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

By the way, my remedy of chilli mix with salt water or vinegar works well for wounds. You can apply it for 90% of injuries or illness with lesions including canker.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, glad to hear it wasn't pox.

You may want to get them to check it again after you have finished giving him the Nystatin just to make sure the yeast infection is gone. That stuff can really get a bird down and sometimes we have had to give them Itraconazole to get it completely cleared up.

Do you have any silver sulfadene? It is a cream salve that is absolutely wonderful on wounds. He probably doesn't need it but maybe the next time you're at AG you can pick up some for future use.

Thanks for the good update.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

So glad to hear it's not pox, so no risk to your other birds. Sorry to hear about Pablo's yeast infection, but that should clear up with Nystatin. One of our canaries had a yeast infection, of all things, two weeks ago. I don't know why he had it; he was so healthy and vigorous before that. We've had him almost three months. My vet put him on an antifungal medication we diluted in his drinking water for two weeks, but I can't remember the name of it. One of the "-azole" drugs. He's back to his old self now.


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

sabina said:


> A little update...Aias fed the pijie who we named Pablo 20 ml of formula last night, and this am, saw that he had thrown it up, along with seeds and half a french fry  So today he only fed 10 cc at a time every 4-5 hours, and he hasn't thrown up again..


Sabina,

20 ml is a huge amount. I told Gloria I was giving my bird 18 ml and she said that you really have to make sure that absolutely nothing is in the crop (even water, cause I believe 20 ml is getting close to what the crop can hold in its entirety. A safe amount (if he's not eating any seeds) is 15 or 16 ml every 8 hours. I adjust depending on how many ml of meds I have to give at the same time. If you are tube feeding and offering seeds to get him back on normal food, then you have to feel the crop and adjust accordingly. 



Lady Tarheel said:


> You may want to get them to check it again after you have finished giving him the Nystatin just to make sure the yeast infection is gone. That stuff can really get a bird down...


I totally agree, but you don't have to bring the bird all the way back to AG Sabina (I know it's a hike for you). Just get a sample of his recent poop and bring it up to AG. Wrap it in cellaphane and put it in a ziploc bag. If none of the rehabbers are there, make sure that you mark on the bag what it's for and tell the receptionist that it has to be refridgerated and to notify the rehabbers when they get in that it's there. (Don't worry, they have a special refridgerator for "samples". No one is going to go into that fridge at lunchtime and confuse it for Pate!   )


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Oops I've been neglecting this thread!

Thanks Birdmom, Maggie and Reti. Maggie, we do have silvadene cream, didn't think of using it. But Pablo has healed well. He's finishing up his 2 weeks of Nystatin tomorrow. He had 5 days of Clavamox. 

He was really incredibly dirty and greasy. I had to use a LOT of Dawn just to get his head clean! We've never had a pigeon so dirty before. He still needs 1 more bath before he's really truly clean so that's the plan for tomorrow! 

We'll probably bring a poop sample to AG on Monday (that's how we've done it with a bunch of birds in the past) and if all is well with that, release him afterwards. 

Zenmont, I don't think 20 ml is a lot. We've always used these links as guides to feeding amounts:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm
recommends 30-40 ml 3 times a day

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm
written by Nooti, PT member in UK. 40 ml every 8 hours.

We do go more by the crop than anything else though....


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi Warrie, thanks for all your posts. Chili, salt and vinegar sound awfully painful though! I think we'll stick with water, a leetle peroxide and antibiotic ointment!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I saw a new (or at least new to me) product in the drug store the other day. It was a foaming saline solution in a can, designed for cleaning scrapes and cuts. I thought that might not be a bad idea for birds. Anyone tried it? Certainly it would be less harsh than antiseptics such as alcohol, Betadine or hydrogen peroxide and you wouldn't have to dilute it.


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