# BOPs, allies or foes?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I would have to say FOE. Nothing helpful in them chasing my pigeons around and eventually killing one or two every now and then


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Gurbir said:


> I would have to say FOE. Nothing helpful in them chasing my pigeons around and eventually killing one or two every now and then


I would tend to agree


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.


Kal-El, I know that ever since you came to PT you have come up with some off the wall kind of threads but this one is really out there. 

When settling young birds they can cause mass fly offs of 1/2 of your team or more. 

Hurt and kill your birds when loft flying, training and during races.

Take your tired race/money winner right off the landing board before it can trap.

Get into your loft and kill your birds.

If this sounds like a good trade off inorder to keep your young birds in the air a little longer I feel sorry for your birds.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Kal-El said:


> Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.


The only good hawk is a dead one.You obviously havnt lost any birds to one yet but you will in one shape or another ,whether they are panicked or killed.You wont see them as a friend for long when this starts to happen.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Being an animal lover,........hawks,falcons etc are my friends,but pigeons are my best friends.....but they both are enemies .......so let the smart one win ,whether its pigeons or hawks !!!


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

My answer is neither, and both.

It is what it is. 

Wild life doing what they can to survive. Nothing more and nothing less.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

Kal-El said:


> Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.


If you race then BOP cant be allies to you. Keeping them in the air longer is the opposite of what you want to do on race day.
Maybe theres more people here like the one in the other thread. Just bored and pulling peoples chains.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Got to go with conditionfreak on this one. 

I don't like the hawks. Watched one try to eat one of my birds (who recovered after 4 months and is back out flying as of last night). But then this is the way things were made. Some animals eat, others get eaten. So while I try to discourage hawks and other BOP from making my loft a buffet (attract natural deterrents like crows, blue jays, geese) I cant take it as a personal affront when one of them has dinner at my expense.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

Jaysen said:


> Got to go with conditionfreak on this one.
> 
> I don't like the hawks. Watched one try to eat one of my birds (who recovered after 4 months and is back out flying as of last night). But then this is the way things were made. Some animals eat, others get eaten. So while I try to discourage hawks and other BOP from making my loft a buffet (attract natural deterrents like crows, blue jays, geese) I cant take it as a personal affront when one of them has dinner at my expense.


I take it personal, if he would have asked I would have given him a chicken instead of a pigeon
And then he would have to move along.


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

I lost a total of 4 birds last year and 1 I know for a fact was taken by a hawk as I witnessed the chase. I have lost one of my best looking birds this season too. My guess is it was a hawk attack because the birds were scattered and came in, in groups of 3 or 4. I can say I am not a freind of any raptor, but we cant really blame a hawk for being a hawk. I just wish if they had to eat a pigeon it would be one of the ferrels that are not far from my loft...

Hank


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

Kal-El said:


> Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.


 Ha HA 

Good joke but I don't like them BOPs, prefer the crows, they keep the pigeons up but don't scare them to death, they also keep the BOPs away.
Raise a couple if you can.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Being an animal lover,........hawks,falcons etc are my friends,but pigeons are my best friends.....but they both are enemies .......so let the smart one win ,whether its pigeons or hawks !!!


Really hope you don't feel that way about your children when the wolf or coyote comes in your yard.Not sure what u mean about both are enemies never seen a pigeon eat a hawk yet. One of my oriental rollers tried to when he beat on him & got away. More like hawk is a predator looking for an easy kill. That's my fun for today. )) so far I'm still on top of the food chain. Lucky here tho never had enough problems to worry resident crows make good ' Darth Vaders ' of the sky.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Ross Howard said:


> Really hope you don't feel that way about your children when the wolf or coyote comes in your yard.Not sure what u mean about both are enemies never seen a pigeon eat a hawk yet. One of my oriental rollers tried to when he beat on him & got away. More like hawk is a predator looking for an easy kill. That's my fun for today. )) so far I'm still on top of the food chain. Lucky here tho never had enough problems to worry resident crows make good ' Darth Vaders ' of the sky.


ohh my god......thats stupid thinking from u my friend.Do a pigeon need to eat a hawk for them to become enemies..???...Do a cat need to eat a dog for them to be enemies.!!!And about the children part,are u going to toss ur children from 40,50 ,100 miles ???Please for god sake ,dont compare pigeon with children....!!!


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

He just meant that a lion or wolf is just doing the same thig a hawk does, when it goes after a human. I understand his point.

But there is a difference in my mind.

A lion would certainly defend it's cub against a wolf trying to eat it. Humans certainly would defend their fellow humans against a lion or wolf (if they could).

The difference being that if a lion or wolf "gets" a human, other humans would undoubtably track it down and "get" it. With pigeons, we do not track the predators down for revenge, or to stop further attacks.

But only because it is illegal. If it was legal, I am sure it would be done often. After all, "we" track down Bambi and kill it and it's parents.

hmmm....I guess we ain't much different than predator birds, lions or wolves. (except for the sport part)  We too can be both friend and foe of other life. Many have pet mice and many kill all they can. etc., etc.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

The person to wolf as pigeon to BOP analogy is hopelessly flawed. Same with the wolf to lion. The pigeon has no means to fight back individually or collectively. Your examples are based purely on emotion which if the problem with this discussion. The fact is that hawks/BOP eat what they can catch. If you don't want them eating or chasing your birds then you can't fly them. If you fly them then you need to accept the fact that at some point you will lose a bird to a BOP.

If you really want to put humans into the equation you must put us as the predator and the prey must be as defenseless as a pigeon. This leaves us with conditionfreaks very apt analogy of pigeon is to BOP as deer is to human. Anything else is invalid.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

um well hawks are very pretty but they do eat my pigeons somtimes so um allies kinda


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Pigeons do "fight back", albeit poorly. When you try to band your babies or wiitch eggs, some of them fight fiercly. I get bit and I get wing slapped.

I would hope the pigeons try those methods with ground and air predators. I know for a fact that pigeons sometimes fight mightily against some snakes trying to take their eggs and young. I used a "trail camera" and recorded it being done against a snake in my loft last year, after I had some eggs come up missing. The snake was actually climbing up and entering my loft through the trap, because I left the landing board covers open, thinking the bob traps being closed was enough.

Another lesson I learned the hard way.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

ace in the hole said:


> Kal-El, I know that ever since you came to PT you have come up with some off the wall kind of threads but this one is really out there.
> 
> When settling young birds they can cause mass fly offs of 1/2 of your team or more.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the chuckle Ace. Perhaps I should have rephrased my original post. Believe me, I hate hawks and other BOPs as much as the next pigeon guy. I have lost a couple promising birds to them. However, I do see the benefit of the hawk keeping my young birds flying longer. Perhaps the hawk helps pick out those physically inferior or dumber young birds to get rid of for me.


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## soaro77 (Oct 10, 2010)

The thing people don't seem to realize is that pigeons breed like crazy because of hawks and other predators. They would become extinct if they didn't. So it is a design of nature to work this way. Also hawks don't know the difference between one of our birds and a feral bird. To them it is just food, nothing more. And tumblers are especially interesting to them because they think the bird is injured. They aren't killing our birds to be assholes. They are just trying to survive in a very difficult world.

I don't want to lose one of my pigeons to a hawk any more than anyone else but I also know that pigeons are very fast and capable of escaping a hawk or falcon attack. I prefer to have birds that are capable of escaping hawk attacks. Those are going to be the birds most suited to free flight. Otherwise we are just breeding birds that are weak and not capable of surviving in the wild, which is exactly what they are doing when released many miles from home.

Also the hawks were there before our pigeons were. It is their territory we are invading. If we can't handle losing an occasional bird to them then we should be the ones moving or stop flying our birds.

Just my opinion and probably not shared by many.


Curtis


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

In a bigger picture predators are a friend because they keep the ecosystem healthy. They eliminate the weak, sick, old, young, etc. It keeps the prey population healthy. On a smaller picture like us, they act like a foe. Today I got attacked again after 4 days of non-flying. This time it targeted my almost 2 months old babies. Since these babies are still naive about predation, they just wondered what was going on. Obviously what the hawk was doing is trying to find food. To us (from a bigger picture) wants that our pigeon population is less. So predators are population controller as well.

It still hurts when these predators get your birds. No amount of bigger picture seems to console it. You rather prefer that the predators target other birds beside yours.

I suppose we just have to live with it. It is not a question of whether they are a friend or foe.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Kal-El said:


> I appreciate the chuckle Ace. Perhaps I should have rephrased my original post. Believe me, I hate hawks and other BOPs as much as the next pigeon guy. I have lost a couple promising birds to the. However, I do see the benefit of the hawk keeping my young birds flying longer. Perhaps the hawk helps pick out those physically inferior or dumber young birds to get rid of for me.


Yet we hear multiple stories of how guys' race winners get taken by a hawk?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

As I have said on here before. In war, both very good soldiers and very bad soldiers can and do die. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw.

On the whole, I believe that the predator birds get the less capable pigeons (and the innocent young), a lot more often than they do the experienced and healthier racing pigeons.

But....any bird is subject to being caught off guard.


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

It's a tough pill to swallow, but if we chose to fly birds we are going to lose some. Be it hawks, illness, high tension wire, cell towers it's enevitable.

I am with everyone else, i don't want to lose birds to hawks especially YB's. But it's going happen.

This afternoon I was getting ready to let out the next set of YB's out on the board for the first time. The wind was picking up somewhat and I figured I'd wait aliitle to see if the weather was going change. As I was standing in front of the loft, I started to turn to go into the stock loft and bam..... A hawk came in not ten feet from me and slammed into the settling cage where the birds were in. The whole loft went beserk. I have not seen that kind of boldness before.

One of the club members was telling us he had a hawk get into his loft and kill a couple of his birds.

It's make me wonder the 30 We are starting off with, how many will be left to race with.
I'm not happy about it , but I know it's going happen. It's just nature doing what it's suppose do.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> My answer is neither, and both.
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> Wild life doing what they can to survive. Nothing more and nothing less.


I have to agree with this one. BOP exist to weed out the old, sick, and weak in their prey. Our birds are in their food chain.

Tony


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Big T said:


> I have to agree with this one. BOP exist to weed out the old, sick, and weak in their prey. Our birds are in their food chain.
> 
> Tony


Yep. Natures idea of fresh meat is life.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

First To Hatch said:


> Yet we hear multiple stories of how guys' race winners get taken by a hawk?


Yes! That's why I've decided to stock my ace bird and build a family around him and his full brother. I will be breeding from 4 direct sons and 5 direct daughters of his next year. I'm not going to risk him to hawks!


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## hartattack (May 11, 2010)

Sorry, BOPS will always be the FOE/enemy. They will never be a pigeon's ally. It's just nature. When something is always out to get you and succeeds at a decent rate, it is an enemy. I don't think a gazelle or zebra thinks of a lion as an ally.

Again, I have nothing against BOPs, they're doing what nature intended them to do. Survival of the fittest and that means that they are the natural enemies and predators of pigeons.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Kal-El said:


> Yes! That's why I've decided to stock my ace bird and build a family around him and his full brother. I will be breeding from 4 direct sons and 5 direct daughters of his next year. I'm not going to risk him to hawks!


Well I'd have to agree with stocking that bird as I remember you posting about him as to what you should do. I wouldn't stock his offspring without racing them though.....in my opinion the only time you should stock an untested bird is when the pair is very old and you want to keep that blood in your loft.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I was in the yard today, cleaning up after a bad storm last night, and changing the water for my pigeons. I decided to let my old birds out for awhile as it wasn't raining and was supposed to later. I have 26 birds in my old bird loft, but some of those are Catalonians and not racing pigeons.

I was filling a water bucket and all of a sudden my birds scattered in every direction. I knew immediately it was a hawk hit. I then saw a Coopers on the tail of a blue bar white flight (I thin, as it happened very fast), and the hawk and pigeon were flying low to the goround. Maybe three or four feet, and the pigeon was doing all kinds of acrobatic manuevers and not just flying in a straight line. But the hawk was right with him, maybe 6 to 12 inches behind the pigeon the entire time. Matching the pigeon at every turn and manuever. I tried spraying the hawk with the water hose I had in my hand at that time, but they were out of range almost immediately, so that didn't work. Then they both went around my house and disappeared from my view, and it looked like the hawk was right on top of my bird.

I ran across the yard and around the house and saw neither the pigeon nor the hawk anywahere. I figured the hawk had it and was in the process of killing it under a buch, on the open ground or in a nearby tree. I was running around frantically checking everywhere, including the farm land acrtoss the road from my home and in my horse pasture. I could see neither hawk nor pigeon.

I went back to my lost and checked inside it. There were 16 birds sitting on their perches in fear. I then saw a flock of pigeons circling high overhead and managed to count 8 in the flock. Since I have 26 in that loft and 16 plus 8 only made 24 accounted for. I started checking inside my open garage, under the bushes around the loft, and under the lofts. No sign of anymore pigeons.

At this point I am assuming that one bird is till out far away, flying in fear, and that the other bird has been "taken" by that darn hawk.

I am looking at my 8 birds in the air still circling and all of a sudden from far off, I see two pigeons coming in quick. With their wings folded and diving towards the loft. I shouted out loud "THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! Good job guys". 

The other 8 birds circling, followed them down to the garage roof. Then they all stood there for awhile, just looking around. Finally they went inside the loft. I counted again to make sure, and all 26 were in the loft. I was very happy.

I understand that this time of year, with so many baby birds in nest and other baby wildlife around, that the hawks don't have to work very hard to get a meal, for themselves and their babies. They just see a dove nest with babies in it and pluck them out at their leisure. So why does that darn hawk have to go after my birds? Is pigeon meat that sweet?


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Thats a very good story conditionfreak, thanks for sharing, I enjoy reading your posts on here one can tell that a lot of thought was put into them.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

First To Hatch said:


> Thats a very good story conditionfreak, thanks for sharing, I enjoy reading your posts on here one can tell that a lot of thought was put into them.


There you go giving conditionfreak the big head. I too enjoy his posts but I would never tell him that. Besides, everyone enjoys the story of the underdog winning one. And isn't this the point of the thread, do not these hawk attacks help prepare our birds for racing?

Tony


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

conditionfreak,

I am glad that all your birds were safe. If that was a falcon chasing that pigeon it would have been over right away. I have witnessed several times like that with my birds with falcon chasing at roof height. I could even see the falcon's sideburn(?) on its face. But surprisingly falcons don't want to engage too close to the ground. That would be hawk territory.

Have you ever been attack by a falcon? I noticed that you get hawk attack often, too.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> I was in the yard today, cleaning up after a bad storm last night, and changing the water for my pigeons. I decided to let my old birds out for awhile as it wasn't raining and was supposed to later. I have 26 birds in my old bird loft, but some of those are Catalonians and not racing pigeons.
> 
> I was filling a water bucket and all of a sudden my birds scattered in every direction. I knew immediately it was a hawk hit. I then saw a Coopers on the tail of a blue bar white flight (I thin, as it happened very fast), and the hawk and pigeon were flying low to the goround. Maybe three or four feet, and the pigeon was doing all kinds of acrobatic manuevers and not just flying in a straight line. But the hawk was right with him, maybe 6 to 12 inches behind the pigeon the entire time. Matching the pigeon at every turn and manuever. I tried spraying the hawk with the water hose I had in my hand at that time, but they were out of range almost immediately, so that didn't work. Then they both went around my house and disappeared from my view, and it looked like the hawk was right on top of my bird.
> 
> ...


 You sound like me after every hawk attack that happens lol glad Im not alone in the frenzy of searching everywhere, we all know theres a very short window in which you can save a birds after an attack and it just eats you up inside knowing that your bird may be being eaten alive as you wander around hoping to find it before that happens .Glad all your bird made it back this time around . Hawks will never be a freind of mine nor my birds ever ,that all I can say about this subject ,your kidding yourself if you think they are in anyway .


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> I tried spraying the hawk with the water hose I had in my hand at that time, but they were out of range almost immediately, so that didn't work.


Great story as always. Maybe you should switch to a power washer??


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

My brother and I had an incident like conditionfreak did too! Just on Monday, he called me and asked me if I was going to stop by his place (that's where the loft is) and I said I would after I dropped off the wife at school. I stopped by and he said he thinks we lost a young bird since he was short one. I said what the heck, it happens. But I was very upset. The next day (Tuesday, yesterday) he said that one bird returned. Luckily that young bird outsmarted the cooper. 

But, I do hate hawks though.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> Great story as always. Maybe you should switch to a power washer??


Ha Ha. That's a good'un.

We have a lake near here, called Rocky Fork Lake. There is a Bald Eagle nesting pair there, but it is about 12 miles from my home and I have never seen the eagles anywhere but around the lake.

We also have a lake near here called Waynoka Lake, and they have a pair of Ospry there. But again, They stay at the lake.

I have never seen nor heard of a falcon around here. We just have the Red Tails and the Coopers everyday.

Oh, I don't put a lot of thought into my postings. I type very fast. I just rattle them off the top of my head usually. That is why sometimes I sound clueless. But it is just the internet and I can't hurt anyone with my ramblings and stories, so why not let them pour. It is very good therapy telling about things like this. Keeps me from committing a federal offense and buying a hawk killing uzi (or power washer).


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## fireman (Apr 2, 2011)

Hawks are foes! Several years ago when I was raising Rollers, I lost 20 birds in a two week period. Even had a hawk push settling cage off of landing board, enter kit box and eat at least 6 birds at one time.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

fireman said:


> Hawks are foes! Several years ago when I was raising Rollers, I lost 20 birds in a two week period. Even had a hawk push settling cage off of landing board, enter kit box and eat at least 6 birds at one time.


 I have to agree that the hawks and falcons ,eagles too have never done a favour for me at anytime unless you consider the exercize you encounter when trying to chase them away.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If you live close to a lake hawks would be abundant. I live close to one as well. That is only my theory why I got a lot here. Redtails are most common, too, but they don't bother my birds. Falcons don't attack me often, but when they do I usually get missing birds. Cooper's hawks constantly bother me and get my birds. 

I see hawks almost everyday here. Redtails on high, cooper's on trees and when time/season is right fast falcons pass by.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. That's a good'un.
> 
> We have a lake near here, called Rocky Fork Lake. There is a Bald Eagle nesting pair there, but it is about 12 miles from my home and I have never seen the eagles anywhere but around the lake.
> 
> ...


When I was raising my boys I took them fishing. We live along the coast of Lake Erie. Lots of great spots even without a boat. One year one of our spots got posted with big red wooden signs and white letters stating that it was a protected Eagle nesting area. The boys were very disappointed but my heart felt joy knowing something was being done to help protect these great birds. I have never seen one up close outside of a zoo. But sometimes I swear that I see one soaring very high up. 

I wonder if the law distinguishes between molesting a BOP for it's own sake and protecting one personal property. Did Uncle Sam ever compensate ranchers for their losses against attacks their herds/flocks? If so perhaps something could be done in our case as well. Personally, I am not so well off that I can be a test case .

Take care and have a good one.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

Kal-El said:


> Are hawks, falcons, and other BOPs allies or foes? I would say they are allies because they help keep my young birds in the air longer.



This picture (got it from another pigeon forum) may answer your question. The remains were found under the the falcon's nest.














kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Aview.htm


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

WOW, How sad.  Multiply that scene by literally millions perhaps.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

kalapati said:


> This picture (got it from another pigeon forum) may answer your question. The remains were found under the the falcon's nest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man thats terrible to lose all those birds ,skytx you might wanna check into that for your band collection .


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

kalapati said:


> This picture (got it from another pigeon forum) may answer your question. The remains were found under the the falcon's nest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A picture is worth a thousand words.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

More like a thousand bands.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Falcon's main food is a pigeon. That would explain that picture.Where was that found?


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## soaro77 (Oct 10, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> I wonder if the law distinguishes between molesting a BOP for it's own sake and protecting one personal property. Did Uncle Sam ever compensate ranchers for their losses against attacks their herds/flocks? If so perhaps something could be done in our case as well. Personally, I am not so well off that I can be a test case .


The law is very strict on doing anything to a BOP or any other bird that is protected by the MTBA (Migratory Bird Treaty Act) which is nearly every wild bird in North America besides House Sparrows, Starlings and Rock Pigeons.

I used to do rehab at the Audubon and also was involved in their education program on BOP. The law is very strict and is eagerly enforced. The Dept. of Agriculture is a government agency and therefore can do as they please. Therefore they can get by with violating the MTBA and allowing ranchers and farmers to kill birds (since they are growing food for humans). But anyone else would get in big trouble for it. The law is so strict that if you were to pick up a robin feather off the ground and were caught with it, you could be prosecuted. They take it very serious.


Curtis


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

http://www.farmyou.com/falcon_cams/index.html

Ya'll may like this. Kind of cute, OK it is real cute.

Tony


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## BirdsEye (Sep 18, 2010)

*"picture worth a thousand words" pigeons do kill*

Pigeons can, and do fight back. Peregrine chicks have a high rate of mortality. Early death, in the eyrie (nest), is often times linked to "frounce", which is the same organism as "canker".

The homers have a much larger, bulkier body than feral pigeons, and as such, they are less agile. Less agility means it is harder to do quick evasive maneuvers to evade the hawk/falcon attack. Rollers and tumblers just scream out to a hawk "easy meal". The exception are the catalonian tumblers- which don't tumble (at least mine don't), but are small and very agile pigeons. In fact, I'm under the impression that part of their history is artificial selection for their ability to evade falcons.

Nature finds a way. If we put out a free pigeon buffet, we should not be surprised if someone stops and takes a bite. The problem then becomes-- are you smarter than the hawk? Because stopping one hawk, by illegal means, will not stop your problem. You've got to understand them, and minimize your losses by either outwitting them, moving to an area without trees, or changing the breed you fly.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Don't get me started on tossing children from100 miles... lol I have about six on the list right now.  My personal thoughts on BOP is that they are allowed to reproduce in North America with no hinder, or thoughts of their prey at all!!! I am not talking about just pigeons, but songbirds of all sorts, as well as other animals. Here in the Florida Keys we have a type of very small rabbit that is almost extinct, and their main predator are BOP. I put those thoughts with the ones I have concerning my own pigeons and BOP, and my conclusion so far is that they are out of control. At the same time I would never for an instant want to see any of them endangered as a species, regulated yes. Before everyone casts their stones at Kal-EL for bringing in a new thought, may I please bring in an observation of mine. Many many different places and many many different BOP are everywhere, here in the US and Worldwide. A loft in an open field with Cooper's Hawks is nothing but play for the pigeons. Trees, buildings,ect. and faster BOP will change everything! Where you live and your direct loft conditions change everything dramatically. Jim Hale


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

The difference of one city block or two can change change a view from a joke to a crime, just another thought.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> As I have said on here before. In war, both very good soldiers and very bad soldiers can and do die. Sometimes it is the luck of the draw.
> 
> On the whole, I believe that the predator birds get the less capable pigeons (and the innocent young), a lot more often than they do the experienced and healthier racing pigeons.
> 
> *But....any bird is subject to being caught off guard*.


I did a morning loft fly around 10:15 am today. The birds flew off the landing board in a fury of wings slaps. I watched them circle a few times and turned my head to wards my shed. 

Less then even 10 seconds from the time I released them a Cooper Hawk dropped out of my Oak tree and started chasing one of my ybs right over my head into my neighbors yard. My bird flew low and then turned up to fly over the fence and the BOP hit him with his talons. 2 puncture wounds one to the crop and the other across the throat into the back of my birds skull. I watched over the fence my yb flapping his wings on the ground. 

I ran over to my neighbors and asked if I could retrieve my injured bird and my 2011 JAX 2656 laid there dead. Not a drop of blood either..just a sliced open crop with seed spilling out and a gouge into the back of his head.

I took a few photos to remember him by and my 3 year old son and I buried him in my backyard next to my bamboo tree. We said our good byes and I had to explain to him what death is. He asked me "The bird is sleeping?" Yes Son, He's gone to the "Great Pigeon Race in the Sky" He said "Good Bye Daddy pigeon we love you" Some rough stuff to deal with because a BOP was waiting for that ambush opportunity. 

I thought I would share this for all the people who think these ambush killers are somehow a friend to pigeon racing.


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