# Pure Janssens



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

I'm considering coming back into the sport and have my heart set on obtaining as close as possible to the last original Janssens. Does anyone know who has some that I would be able to purchase a few squeakers from? You don't have to post their names here. Instead, please private message me. Thanks in advance!


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I saw some on IPigeon, not sure, think it was under Cambells best. Guy has a pair of originals I think.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

I dont really believe theres is still any original janssen anymore. These days, all these popular old strains has been cross bred with each other and producing new strains now. 

The Meuleman is strain that still around but not many breeder have them. meuleman is built from the janssen strain..

But if anyone try to sell me or claim they have pure Janssen, i just laugh my butt off.


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## ArcherPigeons (Sep 15, 2015)

They don't exist.

All the Janssen Brothers died years ago, and their birds have been spread around the globe - bred by more and more people. There is no such thing as a "pure Janssen pigeon".


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Sorry to disappoint the nay sayers....There are ORIGINAL Janssen pigeons breeding in the USA right now...Chick Brooks....Mike Brown....Ken Christopher are just 3 pigeon breeders who have DIRECT JANSSEN pigeons in their loft,that I know of....These are BELG banded birds bought direct from Louis Janssen,who passed away 2 years ago...28 pigeons were sold at auction,for $480,000 USA $$....STOP saying there is none guys...If you don`t have correct info,don`t say anything......Alamo


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I saw some on IPigeon, not sure, think it was under Cambells best. Guy has a pair of originals I think. 
,
I just checked out the website, you should check it out if you are interested in the Janssens. He has several on there I would love to have - beautiful birds.


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

Alamo said:


> Sorry to disappoint the nay sayers....There are ORIGINAL Janssen pigeons breeding in the USA right now...Chick Brooks....Mike Brown....Ken Christopher are just 3 pigeon breeders who have DIRECT JANSSEN pigeons in their loft,that I know of....These are BELG banded birds bought direct from Louis Janssen,who passed away 2 years ago...28 pigeons were sold at auction,for $480,000 USA $$....STOP saying there is none guys...If you don`t have correct info,don`t say anything......Alamo


I'm still relatively new to pigeon racing history. When was that auction and how old are this original Janssens with the BELG bands?


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

wildcat hunter said:


> I saw some on IPigeon, not sure, think it was under Cambells best. Guy has a pair of originals I think.
> ,
> I just checked out the website, you should check it out if you are interested in the Janssens. He has several on there I would love to have - beautiful birds.


I just checked it myself. And yes he has some originals and is offering some decedents from them. I could not resist and placed a bid on one, please don't tell my wife, she thinks I have some kind of addition to pigeons, how silly.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Chic Brooks bought a few birds at the Janssen auction...If my memory is not in default,he paid as much as $30,000.00 each for 3 of the birds,and I don`t remember how many he bought...Here`s my memory problem again...I believe all but ONE bird was bought by a USA pigeon guy....Only one pigeon was a youngster...There was at least ONE RCC...Don`t remember how many RED`s were in the 28 bird lot...Sorry to say,I didn`t bid high enough to get any....hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Alamo


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

JR, they are beautiful, If I didn't inherent these Nanez birds I would be bidding against you.


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## ArcherPigeons (Sep 15, 2015)

Look, you can waste your money however you see fit... but there is no such thing as a "pure Janssen" anymore.

It is just a marketing term used to inflate prices.


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

ArcherPigeons said:


> Look, you can waste your money however you see fit... but there is no such thing as a "pure Janssen" anymore.
> 
> It is just a marketing term used to inflate prices.


I got to ask, did you go to the site and look at the pedigrees? 

The pedigrees certainly indicate that they are indeed "Pure Janssen"


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

OH MY, I don't get these guys. Have a comeback for everything. Why can't we call it as we see it without negative feedback.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please forgive my ignorance but am wondering about these guys. I saw photos and they are lovely. But why are they so expensive? Flying ability, pedigree, hardiness? We just have pet pigeons.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

cwebster said:


> Please forgive my ignorance but am wondering about these guys. I saw photos and they are lovely. But why are they so expensive? Flying ability, pedigree, hardiness? We just have pet pigeons.


The price is tied to elements you can not see. Things like heart or desire. There is their speed when compared to other birds. There is the love of the bird by it's owner. Any and all of the above with plusses increase the price.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

For the guy in Australia....Please read my words here...*THREE Years ago,Louis Janssen *passed away...They auction ALL the pigeons he had,,,I believe it was 28 of them....If these birds were in Louis Janssen`s loft,they were JANSSENS...ALL but ONE bird was purchased by a USA citizen...The total price paid for all the JANSSEN pigeons was around $470,000.00....Divide that by 28....That`s $16,800.00 per bird....*IF YOU THINK ANYBODY is going to pay that kind of money for a pigeon,and spend that money on a bird which is "NOT WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE",your a crazy dude....*......Alamo


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

Tom Fremont from midnight blue loft has a nice collection of original jannsens he is from mn too but he doesnt sell once a year i see him sell a few only.. 
If it's hand written and signed by louis himslef ... From Louis Janssen himself not a pure Janssen then can u explain to me what a pure Janssen is if that is not pure and original Janssen straight from Louise's loft ?????.....For people that claim there is no pure janssen anymore..


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

JR BROWN, did you get the bird, I checked the results. Some went for a good bit and a few were in my ballpark. But I'm not allowed anymore birds ( the BOSS has spoken! ).


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

wildcat hunter said:


> JR BROWN, did you get the bird, I checked the results. Some went for a good bit and a few were in my ballpark. But I'm not allowed anymore birds ( the BOSS has spoken! ).


I did not get any. I was amazed to see that they sold for a relatively small amount. I wish I would not have already bought so many new breeders already because I would have rather spent my money on those "Pure Janssens"


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

When Dr Mike Brown (Skylake Sion Loft),put on direct children of his Janssen pair,they sold for $1,200 to $2,000 on IPigeon....I always wanted to buy one or two,but for me,it`s foolish,since I`m not a pigeon merchant...But getting grandchildren for $400/500 each is not bad....I e-mailed Mike about his RC HEN on IPigeon...The bird had brown/black specks on his primary flights...That usually means it`s a cock...So Mike could not confirm one way or the other the sex of the bird,before the auction ended...So I didn`t bid on the bird...I have a Red Cock already from his pair,and would like to have a sister to the one I have...I have a RCH,which is a daughter of my Red Cock,from 2016,and I`m mating her to a RCC which is a full sibling to my #264 RCH which won $500 in the 2016 LBRA Auction Race,and another RCH #600 which was 71st place in the IF Convention Race...That the best RED Check mating I could give my RED hen,out of Dr Mike Brown`s RCC that I have....Alamo


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

Alamo said:


> For the guy in Australia....Please read my words here...*THREE Years ago,Louis Janssen *passed away...They auction ALL the pigeons he had,,,I believe it was 28 of them....If these birds were in Louis Janssen`s loft,they were JANSSENS...ALL but ONE bird was purchased by a USA citizen...The total price paid for all the JANSSEN pigeons was around $470,000.00....Divide that by 28....That`s $16,800.00 per bird....*IF YOU THINK ANYBODY is going to pay that kind of money for a pigeon,and spend that money on a bird which is "NOT WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE",your a crazy dude....*......Alamo


 Same old story....so called strain names...then back it up with cost of bird ect....its a joke...janseen bros won nothing for donkeys years..the only people buying crap like that just hoping to make money off idiots,buying offspring of these hyped rubbish..and alamo should be ashamed for contiuing the hype,ripping off guilible fanciers....ive seen this go on for years and years.why are fanciers so thick...


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Sounds to me Dannyboy that your just pissed off because you can't afford to buy one.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I have not SOLD any birds that are direct Janssens....I have Janssen strain pigeons that I have bought that have won some good amounts of money in big races here in the USA...They are not pigeons from Louis Janssen...These pigeons have been here in the USA for a long time...These guys here breed the best to the best,that they have....The pedigree`s are very long...But they do go back,way back to the birds bred by the Bros...
I have the Janssen book....You can`t count how many lofts in Europe,and other countries,that owe their fame to crossing the Janssen pigeons into their colony....Many of these big names today have the Janssen pigeons crossed into their pigeons...They don`t care about keeping the Janssen pigeons "PURE".....They want winners,race winners...That`s what makes them well known around the world...My pigeons have one Red Sion hen crossed into my family 20+ yrs ago...So they are not 100% Janssen...But are sold as a Janssen Based Family...If I add 100% Janssen pigeons in,it just gets my family closer to the 100% figure...It is for me to enjoy this,and only me....You don`t have to like or dislike how I breed my pigeons....After my results,for the few birds I sent out last year,I`m on the right tract....I can have my Janssens,and eat my cake,(With the money I Won) too !!!!!....Alamo
*PS:Have never had any buyers complain about my birds yet...I have set up new guys with my pigeons here...They race against me,and beat me with my birds...What`s to complain about ??*


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

dannyboy said:


> Same old story....so called strain names...then back it up with cost of bird ect....its a joke...janseen bros won nothing for donkeys years..the only people buying crap like that just hoping to make money off idiots,buying offspring of these hyped rubbish..and alamo should be ashamed for contiuing the hype,ripping off guilible fanciers....ive seen this go on for years and years.why are fanciers so thick...


I have not been on here for awhile, doing well, just have been busy. Dannyboy, If not by strain, names, etc., how do you pic your racing stock? I assume you race your birds? Just curious...


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Kal-El said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm considering coming back into the sport and have my heart set on obtaining as close as possible to the last original Janssens. Does anyone know who has some that I would be able to purchase a few squeakers from? You don't have to post their names here. Instead, please private message me. Thanks in advance!


Hi Kal-El,

I have read threw all the posts of those who claim there are still pure Jansen's birds available. I would submit that there are birds descended from birds obtained from the brothers bloodlines, but even the Jansen brothers would bring in other top birds to cross bred with there own bloodlines. to name just a few of the current modern day examples of birds that descend from the original bloodlines are as stated Muelman's, Jan Arden Jansen's, Staff Van Reets and many more. Even the old blood Beckart's of which only a few still claim to have pure were cross bred with the old blood Jansen's to make them faster. 

I would suggest that you look at the races you want to prep for, (for me this is primarily 300-350 mi as these are the most common distances for one loft races), then find out who in your area or nationally have the best performance birds at these distances and obtain there birds. I virtually guarantee they will have Jansen blood in them even if the fanciers records don't go back that far. 

Any birds that would be still pure from original birds obtained from the Jansen brothers would be so inbred as to be worthless as anything but breeding stock at this point. I.E. you would have to cross bred them at least 3 generations to obtain descent flying birds.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Lawman....A lot of good words you have written...If anyone here has the Janssen book besides me,they would know that the Bros bought a RED Check,which was 1/2 Janssen,because buyers wanted RED Janssen Pigeons...I`m one of them....Being that the pigeon was 1/2 Janssen,it was not a full cross...But non the less,it was a cross....
*From the BOOK*....In 1960,the Janssen Bros said that was the last time they bred a real good RED Pigeon....But,alot of pigeon men bred many good Red Pigeons from our stock...We never favored one color over another...We wanted results,not color....So with that being said,paying $20,000 and up for a RED Janssen pigeon is crazy....But the last one at the Janssen Auction went way over this amount 3 years ago....I didn`t buy that one either...hahahahaha!!!!When I normaly purchase a Janssen Pigeon,or a pigeon that has a lot of Janssens in the pedigree,I go for light grey colored Blue Bars,that have real WIDE BLACK BARS....In the Checks,I go for real light color grey,with very little checkering...I have the book..Plenty of pictures....Allmost all the great Janssens,were either Blue Bars,or Pencil Checks...Bought 2 Janssen Hens...One was 7th place in a IF Convention Race..One was a top 20 One Loft 300M final race...Both are very light checker hens...All the looks of the BASE Janssen Strain...
_One hen #530 has bred the 38th Place bird in the 2016 LBRA winning $500.00....A son #788 bred the 71st place bird in the 2016 IF Convention Race....A Daughter #777 bred the 90th Place pigeon in the IF Convention Race also..._...So I am on the right track breeding a Janssen BASED family of pigeons...That`s the way I word it,when I do sell a couple of birds...I have to sell a few,because I ONLY keep 14/15 pairs of birds TOTAL,over the winter.....Alamo


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi Alamo, My base family is predominately Jansen as well. however my reds came in from two sources, Mueleman and SVR. Of course both of these blood lines make great crosses as they are predominately Jansen as well. So while I am outcrossing (no common ancesters within 3 generations) they are close enough that the Jansen body and wing type are not lost.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

R-Tune said:


> Tom Fremont from midnight blue loft has a nice collection of original jannsens he is from mn too but he doesnt sell once a year i see him sell a few only..
> If it's hand written and signed by louis himslef ... From Louis Janssen himself not a pure Janssen then can u explain to me what a pure Janssen is if that is not pure and original Janssen straight from Louise's loft ?????.....For people that claim there is no pure janssen anymore..


Yes, I've seen them at the RR club's auction a few weeks ago. They are magnificent, but a tad too big for my liking. Perhaps a smaller-bred will be good if the wallet (and wife) allows!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Remember that the Janssen Bros specialized in SPRINT Races.....That`s races 50 to 125 miles I would say...They never wanted to lose a champion pigeon in a 500 mile race...They said,their birds had nothing to prove by racing 500 miles....Their pigeons were on the large size...so when racing,instead of a 7 flaps per second in a race,they might be flapping their wings 8 or more times per second....That`s makes them fly a little faster....But being large sized birds,that`s not good for 500 miles...These pigeons crossed into a smaller family of pigeons,gets them to fly faster,with less body weight/size....The owners of these pigeons,does have to have a very strict selection program...You must keep the pigeons that have the wings of the Janssen pigeons,but not the big body...*Maintaining the strength/fight/eyes/wings/determination of the Janssen pigeons,is what you want without the big bulk size...*...Alamo


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

Been a long long time since I've been on these forums but figured I'd chime in real quick. Kal-el if you're looking to get back into birds and looking for a family with a Janssen base that are on the smaller side look at birds descended from Kleine Dirk. Koopman's base was direct from the Janssen bros and Van Loon himself who also acquired birds from the brothers. These are tough all distance birds that tend to be on the small side and no larger than medium.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

West said:


> Been a long long time since I've been on these forums but figured I'd chime in real quick. Kal-el if you're looking to get back into birds and looking for a family with a Janssen base that are on the smaller side look at birds descended from Kleine Dirk. Koopman's base was direct from the Janssen bros and Van Loon himself who also acquired birds from the brothers. These are tough all distance birds that tend to be on the small side and no larger than medium.


Yes, I will definitely consider those birds when I get back in. Thanks!


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