# Some thoughts on 2 red homers, one maybe w/ penciling?



## bluedingo (Oct 10, 2008)

*Color ID/ thoughts on 2 red homers, one maybe w/ penciling?*

Hey guys, I'd like your thoughts the genetics of these two red homing pigeons, especially with the partially white one. They're siblings from the same brood, but one has a lot more white, which i'm thinking is penciling or some form of grizzle. That bird has a few white feathers in the tail as well. The other more red bird has some blue feathers, mostly in the tail, rump, and wings. Thanks!


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

thats still just considered a recessive red no matter how much mottling it has in it ..


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Looks to be recessive red and yellow (unless the yellow apprearence is just the lighting?) mottles. The blue and the slight tail bar I see in the yellow one, is from the color underneath 'bleeding' through. It happens a lot in recessive red/yellow. The white looks a lot like undergrizzle, which is one of the factors they believe to cause white in recessive red. They also think that tiger grizzle may have something to do with it as well. So if these guys moult out to have more white feathers, that would help the tiger grizzle theory.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

bluedingo said:


> Hey guys, I'd like your thoughts the genetics of these two red homing pigeons, especially with the partially white one. They're siblings from the same brood, but one has a lot more white, which i'm thinking is penciling or some form of grizzle. That bird has a few white feathers in the tail as well. The other more red bird has some blue feathers, mostly in the tail, rump, and wings. Thanks!


 *Hi BLUEDINGO, The Red, White ,and Blue bird is a Recessive red,he will get much more white as he molts.The recessive red hides the true color of this bird but you are luckey as he has one blue feather which the recessive red did not cover. I currently have a recessive red just like him in my loft. Your bird will get more white as he molts and there is a good chanche that he will retain that one blue feather in the tail. There are those that will try to tell you that this bird is a MOSAIC this is realy not true in this case because the masking factor (recessive red) has done a poor job of masking the true blue color. He may molt out that blue feather or he may retain it as the one in my loft has. If he turns out like my bird he will be a striking bird to look at, I call my bird the PATRIOT (red white and blue) also I think he will be a cock bird I will be taking some pictures of my birds this comming week I will try to post it. One other thing what is the color of the parents of this bird?* GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yup*

Both look to be recessive red, masking blue. If you want better red color, mate them with ash reds as recessive red does a much better job of masking ash red than it does masking blue. If you use spread blues, the color gets better than with blue bar or check. It seems that good recessive reds often (always?) are also spread factor.

The white does look like mottle (grizzle) and as I think George said, will likely moult in more of it. It is possible that there is an opal factor here but I'm leaning toward the grizzle. Recessive red and spread factors can change grizzle to the more mottled appearance but not always. There seem to be more grizzle factors than we ever thought and some do react differently to the reds and spreads.

Recessive reds with blue base often have the plum colored rumps and poor colored tails. The color over brown can be better and the plum goes away but still not likely to be as good as red over ash. 

Bill


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## dimerro (Nov 23, 2008)

Rec red undergrizzle and poor rec red.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

You genetics guys really are impressive! I just wanted to state that...lol


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## bluedingo (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks from dropping the knowledge folks, I really appreciate it! Y'all are quite impressive, that's for sure.


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