# Loft Design



## Ken_Briggs (Apr 6, 2006)

Hi Guys,

New here, this is my first post. 

I had homing pigeons a kid in upstate NY. There was a big population of European immigrants in the area and many brought the racing pigeon sport with them. I bought a few birds as breeders and raised some birds to fly until I outgrew it. Now I am getting near retirement and thinking I may want to get back into the hobby.

Anyhow I am interested in loft design. Some dos and don'ts. I want something a bit nicer than the loft I built as a kid out of some old wooden pallets. I've searched/surfed the web and I see everything from simple "cages" to some very extravagent lofts of some of the Belgian breeders. Any ideas on construction materials. Wood seems the easiest, but what about cinder block? I think my biggest concern is cleanliness for health reasons, mine and the birds. I've noticed very few of the interiors of the wooden lofts I've seen are finished. Doesn't this present a cleaning problem? What about using prefinished paneling, like what you sometimes see in public restrooms (Melamine)? If cinder block is used it could be painted with a real glossy paint to aid in cleaning.

What about loft layout? I was thinking about a square divided into four compartments and a hallway running front to back. Young birds and old birds would be in the front two compartments. A single trap would be in the center accessed from the hallway. The birds would then drop to the right or left into their own compartment. I figure this would be best for training. A single landingboard and trap. There would be two small aviaries below the landingboard on the front of the building. The back two compartments would be for breeding with larger aviaries on the back of the building. I'm not sure about the advantages to individual breeding cages or having all the birds share a larger area, because of unplanned breedings.

Anyhow I am a ways off. Anything you can add would be appreciated. In the meantime I'll have my pigeons vicariously through this forum.

Ken


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

Hi Ken 

Welcome!!!! - it depends on how you see lofts, for anybody starting most are refered to www.redroselofts.com as they have starter loft pics.

BUT you have asked too many questions to answer in one thread! I would think that from your questions you have answered most of them yourself!

Melamine - great as long as it does not get wet. Easy cleaning though. 

BUT I would differ in the birds choosing left or right as they will go were there is the most food


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## Ken_Briggs (Apr 6, 2006)

Jiggs,

My plan for the trap would be a small compartment in the hallway and doors from that compartment leading into the young bird or old bird side of the loft. It would mean flying young and old birds separately. Is this commonly done? So much to learn. As a kid all my birds flew at once. Of course I wasn't racing so it didn't make any difference.

I've seen the article on Red Rose Lofts. Guess I'm thinking a bit lager, but it does have some good design elements. One of the things that bothers me a bit is I see these small lofts setting on cinder blocks. I would be concerned that a "big wind" might topple it. I think I would somehow devise a way to anchor it securely.

Ken


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

bah that is easy to fix... all you have to do close the traps to the other rooms... you would have to fly each set of birds seperately... i have a great design for my next loft (ok i stole most of it from a video) where there are five rooms with a long hallway in the front... with sliding doors all over the place to open the compartments or keep them closed. single landing board and lots of aviarys. prisoner, breeding, old bird, young birds and supply room. personally i need to wait to see what my backyard is going to look like. but my wife already knows i will be building it and that the backyard needs to be big enought to fit... hehe.
anyways Ken there are a lot of things to consider... a lot of racers are not flying old birds anymore. might want to check out the clubs in your area to see how many people are there. and what they fly.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Ken, welcome aboard. I was going to point you towards the starter loft design at Red Rose Lofts too, but sounds like you're thinking bigger then that... I wouldn't knock that design though... have you gone to www.redroselofts.com and hit the link for the small starter loft at the bottom? If you then go to the bottom of the page that link takes you to there are numerous other links showing what other folks have done with that basic design... several are quite large.

Personally, if / when I ever build a really big loft... I'd plan on building it on a cement slab and anchoring it down to that... like you would building a garage say.

You can go to the AU's website:

http://www.pigeon.org/

Under *Info & Events* on the left, hit *Shocase Lofts*

... or go straight there... http://www.pigeon.org/showcaselofts.htm

Here's the website to a couple of the members here that have really cool lofts:

http://www.relofts.com/

http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/page1.html

Check out their web-sites and see what their lofts look like, it may give you some ideas.

Good luck!


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## LuisO (Nov 14, 2005)

Well my question to you is: How the heck did you end up leaving the beautiful East Coast to go to the even more beautiful West Coast? LOL Welcome to the board! 

Here is an awsome starter loft that you can make in under 500.00 (Maybe not in CA), but the AU has given you ALL the plans needed to build this. Pretty simple although I havent tried it yet. http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm

hope that helps.

Luis


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## Ken_Briggs (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks for the links. This is "kinda sorta" the thing I'm looking for. The Love Birds Loft is really neat, maybe a bit larger than what I had envisioned. One question on roofs. The Love Birds Loft has a traditional hip roof. Many of the Belgian lofts I see have a short very steep roof on the landing board side. I asume this is to discourage the birds from landing on the roof and trapping more quickly. The "starter loft" has a similar construction. Also, I see on a lot of loft pictures pickets on the peak of the roof. Again, I assume for the same reason.

Are there any good books that describe racing loft construction? I think I've seen a book by the late Charles Heitzman on loft design. Is it still relevent? Some of the birds I had as a kid came from his loft.

Thanks again. Sure I'll have more questions as this thread continues.

Ken


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Ken, you're correct... from what I understand, a steep roof on the trap side and/or picket fences on the roof line are to discourage birds from sitting on the roof of the loft, but rather trap in.

A couple of things that I don't think have been mentioned, but you may already know is... 1) vetelation without being "drafty" is very important in a loft, dampness is very bad... and... 2) when planning to build a loft, try to think of how many birds you'll "want to have" rather then what you'll "start with", a lot of times folks build a loft big enough for the birds they begin with and soon have over-crowding problems... there's lots of info here on the board and out there, but one number I've heard thrown around and I go by is plan on about 16 or 17 cubic feet of "loft space" per bird... again, that's just the "gouge" I've heard, different people, different sources will tell you different things based on whether its a flying loft, or breeder loft, or young birds, old birds, etc.

I guess another thought on roof style... I've seen pictures of lofts with roof lines as you describe, but when you go inside they'll have a "drop ceiling" of sorts with diamond latice or chian link or maybe hardware cloth (wire) so the loft on the inside isn't so "tall" as to where the birds can fly over your head. They say that makes them more "docile" and easy to get along with (read... easier to catch) when you enter there loft, when they know they can't fly over top of you. I wouldn't know... my loft (converted patio) is like 7' tall on the inside...


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Melamine - we also had that great idea, but it doesn't hold up well to scraping poop off. We replaced that with interior latex paint and have been pleased with the results. You don't want it too slippery, or the birds are more likely to be injured. Low odor paint is important as is letting the boards air for several days before exposing the birds. Some paints out-gas for 4-6 weeks! 

I would be concerned that cinderblock would attract moisture and dampness is not a good pigeon environment.

Your layout sounds interesting - I really like the idea of a single trap. If parentage and chick survival are important, individual breeding pens are best. If this means restricting the parents from normal exercise, the tradeoff may not be worth it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The coop floor should be as dry as possible and shouldn't leave puddles. It should be raised off the ground to prevent moisture from trapping inside the coop.
We use plywood as it is easy to scrape, and use a powder dressing after each scraping and sweeping. 

Keep your interior walls natural, do not paint the interior, as it will allow mites to burrow and they will house in the wood and come out at night. With the natural wall there is no barrier and you can easily spray and clean for mites and such.

I don't think block is good as it stays cold and there is the moisture factor. However. We have used blocks under our smaller floors for support.

We have a slanted roof, and those they usually put small picket fences on to keep the pigeons off. With the steep pitched roofs you don't need the fences, and yes this is for fast trapping.

You should also have an aviary that will allow birds access to sunshine. You should have openings around the eaves of the roof, just like a house, for air circulation. You can use 1/4" mesh to close the openings and keep predators out.

You should have several windows to allow light into the coop, but should not be on opposite sides, because of air drafts.

Breeding coop should be seperate, and nesting boxes should be large enough to hold two nest bowls. Birds that are breeding, all have single thought minds, and they should not be stressed by single birds with fighting and such. The breeding coop should be a peaceful place with no contention going on, once couples are settled.

Pigeons need a coop that is well ventilated, stays dry, is predator and wind and weather proof, and should be large enough to hold the amount of birds you THINK you want to eventually have, not the amount of birds you start off with.


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

perches
http://www.redroselofts.com/perches.htm

trapping
http://www.redroselofts.com/trapping.htm

cleaning design
http://www.redroselofts.com/poop_shoot.htm

flag training
http://www.redroselofts.com/Flag_training.htm

bull breeding
http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/articles/NigelCowood.html

these are all some designs i am thinking about using in my next loft. then the loft base design will be similiar to a great tape i saw on light system... they had the single landing board with the hallway in front then mulitple rooms for each team and also for keeping hens and cocks apart during nonbreeding. 

also there is a design for the floor i plan on using if i can where the floor of the loft is about 1 foot off the ground and the floor has about 1 inch boards with space inbetween so the crap falls to the ground below. with this idea you have to be careful about draft so you would have solid floors in places. 

i also plan on having a room just like one of the pigeon rooms for my feed and supplies. this is where the door into the loft will be and then there will be a door leading into the bird area from the room... this way no birds accidently escape through the door. along the whole front (except the supply room) is avairy. seperated so that the birds in each room can have their own avairy too.

good luck
keep us posted
shawn


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Ken, you've gotten some great ideas. The one thing I would consider is the way ALL of you aviaries and openings face. On our big loft, our individual pens are across the back. Don't get me wrong, they are nice to have but when that north wind blows it's just down right miserable. There are many days during the winter when I have to close it up and the birds hate that. Every thing should face toward the south, south west or south east. Of course we raise our babies in Jan, Feb and March so that makes it even worse. A cold north wind blowing at 20 to 25 mph is no fun. LOL


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

ofcourse we get those nasty winds coming off the pacific... most of our wind (stockton) comes from the southwest... occationally i will get a storm out of the north.


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## Ken_Briggs (Apr 6, 2006)

Man... So much good information. Thank you all for your replies.

Something I read somewhere while I was browsing some other sites. This guy put his carrying crate on the landingboard and had his pigeons fly into it. Said it stressed them less. I guess the crate door lined up with the door(s) that the birds were used to using when they were released to fly. Any ideas how that might work?

I was also thinking I would elevate the loft enough (2' to 3') to be able to roll a wheel borrow under it. Then have a trap door in the floor to "shovel" through into the wheel borrow. Not sure about using a wire floor and letting everything drop to the ground. That doesn't sound like a good thing. Especially a loft of any size. How long could you let poop pile up before you have to go underneath to clean it out?


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

dry poop can wait a while... wet poop is a problem.
if you look at 
cleaning design
http://www.redroselofts.com/poop_shoot.htm
you will see they put a trap door on the side of the loft wall so then they could do the same that you are talking about.

now on that video (i wish i had a copy to get the name for you) you will see that they run the birds out of the rooms and down the hall to a small door where they either fly out for daily rounds... or run into crates. furthermore if you did this style you could have some sort of set up for the crates that can be moved and replace with your wheelbarral (however you spell it). killing two birds with one stone... (bad quote for this website hehe). personally if the ground/poop will stay dry enough i would use the fall through method as this also helps with "good" airflow.

shawn


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I don't like the idea of an open floor that is a few feet off the ground, (moisture and all) ours is solid plywood. We did have a small loft that was high up like a rabbit hutch and in that case, it works out fine. The small loft is now their dining room. Using wire in loft floor would also expose pigeons to mosquitos and other bugs and insects.

We usually clean every two to three days, but we have about 40 birds in the loft. So, how often you clean, depends on the size of your loft and how many birds you have. Also our pigeons spends 50% of their time in our walk-in aviary, so that also cuts down on the poop in the coop.

I like the idea of having a trap door on the floor, but make sure it closes tight.


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

it works well for some people. the most important part is that it stays dry. if it is wet it will attract bugs... dry the loft will have no more bugs than a normal open loft. and your birds dont walk around in their own poop.

speaking about that... there is another nifty idea about bird perches and poop. i have seen some people with a screened box under the perches. that way everything falls in the box and then it can be picked up and scraped out.


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## Ken_Briggs (Apr 6, 2006)

Here's a thought I had today at work. Why not use plastic lumber for areas that need to be kept clean. I was thinking perches and the like. My plan would be to make them removeable and use a pressure washer to clean them outside the loft. You can buy plastic lumber in almost any size that "real lumber" comes in, in fact they even make plastic plywood sheets in various thicknesses. From what I understand you can use it just like real lumber, only problem is over long spans it tends to sag. It's not as stiff as real wood.


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

cleaning is not as big of a problem as, i think, you think it is. grab a scraper (i use a putty knife like tool) and scrap off the perches and anything sticking to the walls. then clean the floor... the floor is the most taxing part to clean. this is why we have so many different opinions on how the floor should be. the only thing i would not suggest is osb board. i used osb board in my loft and the pieces just come off to easy. on my perches and landing board i sealed them using a non-toxic wood sealer.

i know i have said this but i will say it again. find a local club and as to look at everyone's loft. most fanciers delight at the chance to show off their design and birds. just be ready to hear some extended stories about birds and past victories.. :*)

ps i have no expericance with plastic wood


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

We had some plastic wood leftover from our deck and used it for perches out in the flight pen. It works great, but if you plan to use plastic wood for much of your loft it would greatly increase the cost.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*New loft*

We are making a new loft. I have seen most coops up off the ground. Does anyone have concert foundation?  I really like the thread. It has given me ideas. we have started out with a 12x12 concert slab with metal brackets for the support beams. They will be 4x4. I copied mamny loft desigs online. I will have it divided in half. Boys on one side and girls on the other side. I have been reducing birds. My friend came by and pick up a number of birds. My son friend came earlier and I starting him out with some.birds. How many can go into 12x 12 loft?


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## battler (Sep 4, 2005)

you can probably make 2 lofts off the ground probably a 5ft to 7ft in height or so, one for the your breeders that one should have a breeding cage and the other one should be for your fliers.


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## Symbro (Oct 28, 2005)

i have a 16x14 concrete loft... the building was existing so i just adjusted it. 16x8 flying room
6x6 supply room
10x6 breeding room

actually works nicely... cept i have a door leading into my flying and breeding loft from outside... then from inside leading to my supply room. if i could have changed it i would have made the supply room bigger and had only one door leading into it instead of the lofts. big big big warning. make sure it can support the weight on the edges... mine is an old building and the middle is cracked and higher by about 2 inches than the outsides. kinda nice for water flow thought :*)


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