# Big dollars attached to big names?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

So the question is: Does a bird's value garner more money and interest simply because it's from a fancier who has done well? Don't get me wrong here, guys/girls who are successful are so because they've worked hard. And their birds are top quality. However, in terms of auctions, do you think people are willing to pay big bucks just because the bird they're bidding on is from a person who has done well? 

Is it possible that sometimes even successful guys/girls sell birds in auctions to help out others, and maybe the birds are not from their family of birds? But because that bird came from a certain loft, it will get more bids/money? 

This thread is not intended to start a storm, but just raise a discussion topic. Any feedback is welcome.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I think it depends on the part of the hobby and the hobbiest themselves. Looking through pigeon sites, it does seem like some of the birds are very pricey. 
When I bought a ringneck from George Schutt, though (the guy who has the most points in the American Dove Assoc.) she only cost $20 and shipping, which I would say is reasonable especially with how pretty she turned out to be.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> So the question is: Does a bird's value garner more money and interest simply because it's from a fancier who has done well? Don't get me wrong here, guys/girls who are successful are so because they've worked hard. And their birds are top quality. However, in terms of auctions, do you think people are willing to pay big bucks just because the bird they're bidding on is from a person who has done well?
> 
> Is it possible that sometimes even successful guys/girls sell birds in auctions to help out others, and maybe the birds are not from their family of birds? But because that bird came from a certain loft, it will get more bids/money?
> 
> This thread is not intended to start a storm, but just raise a discussion topic. Any feedback is welcome.


Absolutely! Mike Ganus is a perfect example. If you put a GFL band bird up for auction, it will bring a premium.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

klondike goldie said:


> I think people will pay more for a bird from someone who has done well in the past or is well known, I don't think it should be that way but it is. Most people pay big bucks for GFL birds, they can't all produce winners, but people think they have a better chance with a GFL bird. We should be looking at the birds record, rather than the person selling it.


I'm always looking to add new blood into my stuff to see what mixes good so I'm always looking for the right birds to bring into my breeding program. I look at bother the guy who flew it and the birds flying results. My club has the Great South Bay Classis in which the top birds are auctioned off after the race. I usually try the birds who did good for the lesser flyers. I know some guys are better handlers then me so I figure they are getting the best out of the bird and I'm not gonna get anymore out that bird or it's children then they have. But the guys who really never do so good if they get a bird from this race that has done good over the season I feel it worth adding to my loft and seeing what I can get. But most of the time your not gonna find too many birds fro sale with race records. So if you were gonna buy birds who's birds are you gonna buy Joe Smoe's bird's which he got out of a pet shop with no background at all and have never done anything. Or are you gonna try to get a GFL bird that atleast has something behind it that has done somthing in races. I was lucky to be given good birds back in the late 90's and I've picked up a good bird here or there at the auctions for all the money races we have here. So I've been able to stay away from really chasing after good birds since I already have them. All I have to do is add a lil here and there so I can be picky. But a lot of ppl aren't as lucky as me to find birds that are good and fit them. So they have to buy birds I know when I buy a bird with no race record I'm gonna buy a bird who has winners in it's background. Which pretty much all the Ganus birds do. I'm not a fan of Ganus and all but he has gone out and bought good birds and brought them to this counrty.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Kal-El said:


> So the question is: Does a bird's value garner more money and interest simply because it's from a fancier who has done well? Don't get me wrong here, guys/girls who are successful are so because they've worked hard. And their birds are top quality. However, in terms of auctions, do you think people are willing to pay big bucks just because the bird they're bidding on is from a person who has done well?
> 
> Is it possible that sometimes even successful guys/girls sell birds in auctions to help out others, and maybe the birds are not from their family of birds? But because that bird came from a certain loft, it will get more bids/money?
> 
> This thread is not intended to start a storm, but just raise a discussion topic. Any feedback is welcome.


Absolutely. And to take it up a notch, I have seen very good racing birds get passed over for an imported un-raced racer that can only be bred from.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

I feel people over pay big time to get a bird from a successful show winner.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

sport14692 said:


> I feel people over pay big time to get a bird from a successful show winner.


Not really as a show bird YOU can see what the bird has. And by that you have the better chance to reproduce a better bird. Where race birds you can not see there needed quality only the visble wants. AND yes some race birds Are way over priced because of a certion name. But agin buying proven birds Birds that were raced has a race record you have a better chance of getting a useful bird. Brand names seem to ask more of a price in anything. BUT lowere named things often have the same quality. That even goes for RACE birds. AS there are plenty of people Even in belgium the netherlands even that go unherad of By US that race rather well But choose not to sell vast amounts of birds Keep little to no pedigrees just 2 3 generation ones. Most people want something fast rather then build over the years it takes to climb the charts. So people are there to sell a name and someone is there to buy that name. A great breeder sales few But those few are the birds you would want. A salesman sales many and most are junk And few are good. So its what people want And what you want and what you get are allways 2 different things. But yes NAMES sell. But so does suckers at your local store


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## mikel (Jun 9, 2011)

Kal-El said:


> So the question is: Does a bird's value garner more money and interest simply because it's from a fancier who has done well? Don't get me wrong here, guys/girls who are successful are so because they've worked hard. And their birds are top quality. However, in terms of auctions, do you think people are willing to pay big bucks just because the bird they're bidding on is from a person who has done well?
> 
> *Is it possible that sometimes even successful guys/girls sell birds in auctions to help out others, and maybe the birds are not from their family of birds? But because that bird came from a certain loft, it will get more bids/money? *
> 
> .


it do happens,well if you are the successful guy/girl i think you would think twice on doing that,if the bird you sell did not do well or somehow somebody knew or tell that the bird is not from your family of birds then a lot of buyers will think that you are a rip off then they will think twice before buying a bird from you..


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## 1981 (Aug 9, 2006)

Pigeon0446 said:


> So if you were gonna buy birds who's birds are you gonna buy Joe Smoe's bird's which he got out of a pet shop with no background at all and have never done anything.


There was an article in the Racing Pigeon Digest about a William Melendez who had a pair of pet shop birds that bred him a "super marathon champion."


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Well like everyone else Mike Ganus comes to mind, GFL birds always bring top dollar. Then again sometimes you do get what you pay for, I personally would rather pay ten times for a great bird than one tenth on ten questionable. I am in no way saying that all GFL birds are great, or all of any loft's birds for that matter. What I will say is that Mike Ganus goes to Europe and buys some of the very best birds on earth, has a fantastic reputation, and keeps his breeding program in order. He has done great things to improve the quality of pigeons being bred and raced here in the US and deserves credit for such. Are there others worth buying from? Sure there are plenty of fantastic racers and breeders at the top level, are you ready to do the research and find them? A fine example is the bird I bought from you.lol For others reading the bird was a son of Mr In The Money. Mr In The Money was a three time National winner of all Holland three years in a row, but he didn't come to the US through Mike Ganus, so for many he isn't as well known as some of the one time winners that GFL owns. A National winner of all Holland doesn't become a better bird because it becomes a GFL bird after it wins, it just becomes more expensive. lol


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

And I hope you are having success with him. 1719 is always the calmest and most inquisitive. I hope that he keeps breeding awesome birds for you for many years.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks. This year with him was exceptional! I have 1719 mated to a daughter of his full brother still, she is also a gr daughter of Champ Stamp from Mike Schmidt.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18617 http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18614 Two hens and a cock from 1719 this year. The bb cock just stopped squeaking a week or two ago.The two bb splsh hens are nest mates.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Jimhalekw said:


> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18617 http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18614 Two hens and a cock from 1719 this year. The bb cock just stopped squeaking a week or two ago.The two bb splsh hens are nest mates.


well theres only one way to find out whos good and whos not so let us know how they do when you know , its always good to know how they follow up in the year after all is said and done


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

Sorry, can't say it won't happen again though. Some feel so right it is hard to not post. The way the hawks are here it may be the last time I see them.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Jimhalekw said:


> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18617 http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1063&pictureid=18614 Two hens and a cock from 1719 this year. The bb cock just stopped squeaking a week or two ago.The two bb splsh hens are nest mates.


Wow- I am liking this bird for sure.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Beautiful bird! So your the one who bought his money bird eh! How are they doing? Race them yet?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> So the question is: Does a bird's value garner more money and interest simply because it's from a fancier who has done well? Don't get me wrong here, guys/girls who are successful are so because they've worked hard. And their birds are top quality. However, in terms of auctions, do you think people are willing to pay big bucks just because the bird they're bidding on is from a person who has done well?
> 
> Is it possible that sometimes even successful guys/girls sell birds in auctions to help out others, and maybe the birds are not from their family of birds? But because that bird came from a certain loft, it will get more bids/money?
> 
> This thread is not intended to start a storm, but just raise a discussion topic. Any feedback is welcome.


 In my humble opinion yes. And it applies to Great Racing Fanciers, Great Horse Farms, and other things considered Great by followers as well.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

1981 said:


> There was an article in the Racing Pigeon Digest about a William Melendez who had a pair of pet shop birds that bred him a "super marathon champion."


I know him from when he flew her on Long Island and I wouldn't believe much of what he says. He was banned from flying for a lil while back in the 90's because him and another flyer bought birds at a auction for the EMF Auction race which no longer exists and killed them. I wad there and what happend was he bought the bird asked the guy in the lil kitchen area for a knife went outside killed the bird and cut the leg off just so he could band his own bird. He came back in with the band in his hand laughing saying all he wanted was the band and I was pissed I was only a kid at the time so I couldn't do much but I put up a stink and threatend to write to the local news paper to tell them how these pigeon flyers killed the birds. Along with other illegal stuff that was going on in the local clubs at the times. I'm glad they suspened him and the other guy who also flys down in the GHC club now but I still don't think the punishment was harsh enough. What made it worse was that when the guys killed the birds one of them just throw the dead bird over the fence into the yard of the house that is next to the club and the other threw the dead birds up on the roof of the club. I know ppl are sick and would do anything for money so they buy the cheap birds and reband one of their good birds. But these sick guys couldn't even wait to get home and they bragged about it. I know ppl kill birds thats part of the sport to most but what I can't stand is ppl who brag about it like they are some big shot because they can kill a lil pigeon.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Not that you can't get good birds from the pet shop if you know what to look for. I think you can since alot of ppl around here don't fly OB's so alot of birds that ppl get rid of never had a chance to prove themself with the 20 bird limit in YB's and most ppl raising around 100 YB's some birds never get a chance to show what they've got. But buying any bird, even a bird who has won 10 races or bred 10 winners for sombody else, is kinda like buying a lottery ticket some are winners most aren't if your lucky you might get that winner or bird who breeds you winners.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I know him from when he flew her on Long Island and I wouldn't believe much of what he says. He was banned from flying for a lil while back in the 90's because him and another flyer bought birds at a auction for the EMF Auction race which no longer exists and killed them. I wad there and what happend was he bought the bird asked the guy in the lil kitchen area for a knife went outside killed the bird and cut the leg off just so he could band his own bird. He came back in with the band in his hand laughing saying all he wanted was the band and I was pissed I was only a kid at the time so I couldn't do much but I put up a stink and threatend to write to the local news paper to tell them how these pigeon flyers killed the birds. Along with other illegal stuff that was going on in the local clubs at the times. I'm glad they suspened him and the other guy who also flys down in the GHC club now but I still don't think the punishment was harsh enough. What made it worse was that when the guys killed the birds one of them just throw the dead bird over the fence into the yard of the house that is next to the club and the other threw the dead birds up on the roof of the club. I know ppl are sick and would do anything for money so they buy the cheap birds and reband one of their good birds. But these sick guys couldn't even wait to get home and they bragged about it. I know ppl kill birds thats part of the sport to most but what I can't stand is ppl who brag about it like they are some big shot because they can kill a lil pigeon.


Thats quite sad But I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here today, I know the cheapest bands that were going were 40$ and their were plent of birds going less than 40$


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