# feral genetics



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

i do have one question, I don't even think it can be answered. I have two blue bar feral pigeons. when I breed them together I get blue bars but not with black bars, they turn out with brown or red bars with black outline. how dose that make sence? I do have a feral pigeon that is brown now with white splash, it just hatched, I guarantee that bird will be compleatly black with the white splash when it molts. how dose this stuff happen? dose it make sence in any way knowing there feral pigeons?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Makes lots of sense  ANYTHING can happen in ferals. Sounds like toy stencil but could be bronze. Does it moult out or is it very prominent? Pictures would be great


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

nope the bar don't molt out, but this other birds I have, also ferals, they come out brown and molt out and turn black


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The ones that moult from "brown" to black bars sounds very typical for bronze in blues. The ones that stay could be toy stencil or bronze as well, like modena or roller bronze.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

but yeah it's ether way, verry little brown or bronze, or almoste all brown or bronze, witch ever it is. I'll go take a picture of it quick


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

ok I added the pics to my profile of the bronze bared ferals I have hatched, there in a album marked ferals on my profile


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

That is just a bronze. I dont know which one specifically. Looks like a Modena type bronze. Wether that it makes sense it *must* logically one way or another. When you ask if something makes sense your asking if it's logical. If your sure the parents are who you say they are then yes logically they made that bird. It makes sense even if no one here can explain it. Your bird has bronze bars. It can be two option, it can be genetic or it can be made by circumstances in the environment. I think we would all agree it came about genetically. When the offspring shows a trait the neither of the parents showed its called recessive. It's a bronze, atleast that what we call it. It can be Modena or roller or another. Some may have multiply names for the same thing. If the parents do not show bronze bars or ever did then you would have to conclude its recessive. They both carry a recessive gene and statically it would create this bronze bar 25% of the time. I think what you presuppose is that Ferals are wild type. Which is theoretically just blue bar with no recessive genes. Any given feral background is most likely unknown to us so we may never know what recessive gene the two of them could be carrying. Therefore this creation is not surprising or goes against knowledge.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

so I can breed the bronze to bar to the bronze bar and bring it out? you can't use the spread gene on it because it will turn the bird black correct?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Spread turns blue to black, yes. If you want more of these bronze bars breed them together  I think they are pretty.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

when this round of youngsters get's feathered out I will have ten of them like that. I know the two I took pics of is a cock and a hen for sure, the rest I don't know about yet. I know I havent seen any like that, and I been catching pigeons for years to get them out of the silo at my grand fathers house. mabe it's a fluke accident. earlyer I whas at walmart and saw what apeared to be a black, and mean jet black feral with bronze wings. it looked just like a saddle homer. but black instead of white boddied.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think it is toy stencil bronze - Ts1 - which is what modena bronze technically is. I'm trying to find out just what "roller" bronze refers to without much luck. The only thing I've found is possibly kite bronze inhanced by undergrizzle.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

these are all wild birds I see flying around every day in my neck of the woods, I know they race a lot of homers through here because I used to finde them banded on the road almoste starving to death, I'ld track down the owner through the band number and normaly they would come and get them or meet me half way to get it, wich is fine with me. but if I breed them back together will it get rid of the black outline, and make the bar full bronze overtualy?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

No it won't  Toy stencil bronze stays with the black line, which looks neat-o I think.

Thankfully I am one step closer to being clear on bronze types now thanks to a couple of my friends. Roller bronze is the weakest bronze. It's the common bronzing you see on blues and such where it moults out or if it does stay, it's the bronze tint you see in the pattern. Nothing as concentrated as these ferals, for example. It's a relief knowing what bronze I've been seeing for so long in my homers. And rollers, of course.


Like I said, anything can pop up in ferals. That is mostly because ferals are made up probably 99% of stray domestics (which is what feral means). Mutations of course are always possible. Colorful ferals do not always have to be directly related to a lost domestic bird, although it is more likely that they would be. There are a lot of people who love breeding ferals just for the mystery of what they are hiding.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I C, well if you want one you know were they are. I'll probbly keep them like that and experiment with the trate too.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Thankfully I am one step closer to being clear on bronze types now thanks to a couple of my friends. Roller bronze is the weakest bronze. It's the common bronzing you see on blues and such where it moults out or if it does stay, it's the bronze tint you see in the pattern. Nothing as concentrated as these ferals, for example. It's a relief knowing what bronze I've been seeing for so long in my homers. And rollers, of course.


Finally, I'm also glad to know that, but Tippler bronze and brander bronze is still in question. Seems like no one can say what makes a show Tippler. Jbangelfish said it was t pattern, kite (assuming homozygous), dirty, het recessive red. Others think undergrizzle must also be there. That is what I really want to know. If I can't find undergrizzle in a Tippler then I'll will see what adding suppressed grizzle does.

I assume Tippler bronze and brander bronze are just slight variations in the expression of two very similar things. I would also like to know about Lebanon stencil bronze.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I got pics of my newest feral out of the same pair of birds, not even close to the rest. I mean way off. I also have one starting to feather out I think is a realy light grey color. I never seen one this color, it will be indeed intresting to see what I get. and will keep you all posted. for now the pics of my newest youngsters wings are in the feral album on my profile. 

thanks to all of you for your information on anything I ask about. thanks for lending me a hand and ear.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Can't wait to see it feathered out


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

i'll keep you posted


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