# help needed with laws and regulations in keeping pigeons(santa clarita,ca,U.S.)



## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

hi dear members i m in a trouble i need your help ,support and advices on a crucial matter.
the problem is i live in santa clarita, ca,U.S. plum cyn.

#1.)i'v talked to the HOA they said they as long as i have my pigeons out of other's property and as long as they dont make any noise i m fine to keep them .i also stated tht i will b having a big cage 20x14x7 ft. they said yes thts fine . 

#2) talked to the city hall they said i can have 3 or 4 birds in 100 sq. ft. space and i got more than 3000 sq. ft.

#3) animal control said as long as they r being taken cared of u r good.

now this guy whos backyards behind mine is saying tht i cant build a house like that, i need to pass flyers to get approved.cudnt get him to understnd tht there arent ferrals they r homers. he kept saying that these r rats with wings

so i m kinda scared now though i own the house .what do u think ???is there any way out for me or to have pigeons ?my loft is 24x8x7 ft. is there any kinda permit i need to get? or what other choice do i have?
there is no way i can live without pigeons.

waiting for your reply. 
thnx
airdrawndagger


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The HOA said ok and animal control said ok. First thing monday go to City Hall and get a builing permit. Then see if you can invite your neibors over for burgers and a beer, or tea, ahow them your birds and your plan. Maybe your next door neiborswill help convince the guy behind you that it will be ok. Maybe you should go for steak and wine, It helps to butter them up some.
Dave


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

lol......thnx pete... i m sitting in-front of my pc waiting for replies.i'll go to the city hall .


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's what you wanna do...Pete-Dave is on the right track, but you can get more specific and focused.

First, visit your Zoning or Planning dept. Tell them that ACC said it's OK as far as they are concerned and it is within their applicable codes; city hall said the same.

Ask Planning/Zoning if there is anything against building a Bird Enclosure in your yard. Or if there are any reqt's regarding setbacks from property lines and such. They may ask you for the dimensions of the Enclosure (don't call it a loft, don't call it a house). Probably OK to call it a Coop, or a Shed, too.

Here is what I am gonna guess, living in CA also: most Zoning ordinances allow for "accessory structures"...things such as tool sheds, gazebos, covered trellises, lean-to's, doghouses, mechanical/hvac sheds, etc. These usually do not have to conform to what is considered a "building"....so they usually can be placed anywhere in your yard. So I think you will be OK.

Then go to Building Dept, and ask them if there is any permitting process required to build your coop/enclosure...whether or not it even falls under the Building Code. 
Around here, no permit is required for such yard structures.....the reason being quite simple: accessory buildings aren't inhabited by humans, so as long as the use (a big cage for pets, really is what it is) is not prohibited, there is no need for building life-safety codes to apply.

Get that info, come back here and post what they say.

Fair enuff to say that the town/city ain't gonna forbid you from keeping your pigeons. Worst-case scenario would be they set a limit on the #. I wouldn't lose sleep over this...but I would agree that it's best to C.Y.A. Then the next time the neighbor brings it up, lower the boom on him if necessary (nicely...or not...)


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

airdrawndagger said:


> #2) talked to the city hall they said i can have 3 or 4 birds in 100 sq. ft. space and i got more than 3000 sq. ft.


3 or 4 birds in 100sq. ft? Did you mean to say 30 or 40? a A 20x14 loft you is 280 sq. ft. You could keep at the very most 140 birds. You want to give the birds atleast 2sq. ft of ground space each.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

oh its this santa clarita city hall so they got their rule i guess.. but they said that about a backyard lot however i got more than 3000sq.ft. maths say i can keep atleast 90.  but the main concern now is about building the loft i spent half of my savings and as a student i dont have much of a savings u know lol...i'll try post pics so u can c clearly .


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

Jaye said:


> Here's what you wanna do...Pete is on the right track, but you can get more specific.
> 
> First, visit your Zoning or Planning dept. Tell them that all other dept's have said it's OK as far as they are concerned and it is within their applicable codes.
> 
> ...


thnx jaye i feel a lot better now i'll do that asap thoug they might b closed on monday,but i m getting my confidence back from u guys.  there aint no way i m gonna breath with out my birds.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I still think you should have a BBQ and try to win over the rest of your neibors. Lets try nice first.
Dave


Then the next time the neighbor brings it up, lower the boom on him if (nicely...or not...)


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

hahaahahaha !! i will try that but its gonna b hard to convince em to come over cos i just know 2 of my neighbours and they proly know no one ppl r realy bz to even say hi. but i'll give it a shot. thnx for ur advices. my club president is comin over tomorrow to have a talk with em lets c if we can convince him .


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

tell the guy they are not flying rats, thats from some stupid comment from a woodie allen movie back around 1970 . they do not carry desease . the pest control companies 
want every one to think they do so they will have repeate business . i do not know about any permits , but i always like to beg for forgiveness then to ask for permission . personally i would build it sounds like you asked all the right people . sometimes neighbors can be a pain. i have always found that once you start letting then tell you what to do it seems its never enough . hope it works out please kep us up dated good luck


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

ya i know i got offended by that and i m all about performance that rat word would'v made a pigeon lover beat the crap outta him.and i mean there r swallows who poop all over and these ignorant ppl wount understnd i tried to tell him about my racers he doesnt care.
lets c how it goes if he complains or not. thnx shadowoak.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

...I'd just barbecue the neighbor.....

Just a word of advice...it _would_ be nice to keep things amicable...but if there's no convincing, then don't waste your time any longer. Once you confirm the legality of it, you have taken the high road and it's the end of the issue. You are in the right, and your neighbors can either decide to harp on it and waste their energy being upset over something which is completely legit (which will resolve nothing and just make them miserable), or just accept that neighbors need to act like...neighbors.

So far you have taken all of the correct steps. Just get the info from Zoning and Building, and you are good.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

well guys he complained and i got a letter from the hoa they said i cant build something higher than the wall i need to let em know what i m making/building including all the details even the colour lol...and so here we go gotta talk to the hoa and let them know might have to break it down and build along the walls .thnx for your advices though.i appreciate it.


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

i once had a neighbor complain to me about the smell of my horses , the problem was i told him was that horses had not been there for almost two yrs . he just saw saw the corrals and figured he would complain . complain now smell later i told him . i try to get along with my neighbors . i really do but sometimes you just cannot chase your tail around . it just gets worse . i now live in a neighborhood and 2 ac. lots and you are alowed five horses . by the city an d the ccrs . and we we still have people buy homes move in and then start complaiming about the horses . i just got my pigeons have had no complaints yet but im sure after someone sees them some one will complain . just to gain somekind of satisfaction of controlling something or somebody .


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well I guess nice guys finish last. Does he have a dog? if so I would call the police about 3 am and complain of a barking dog. Find the rules for the HOA and make sure he follows every one of them.
Dave


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Built you a small coop---
Put a Rooster in it.--Let him listen to it ever time the Sun comes up.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well I guess nice guys finish last. Does he have a dog? if so I would call the police about 3 am and complain of a barking dog. Find the rules for the HOA and make sure he follows every one of them.
> Dave


ahhahaha he doeas have a dog and i will do what u said.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Built you a small coop---
> Put a Rooster in it.--Let him listen to it ever time the Sun comes up.


nah cant have a rooster it says in the agreement lol smthing doesnt make much noise.
but thts a good idea though.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

airdrawndragger, 
i suggest to just keep it cool and be low profile to your neighbor because sooner or later your birds will go to his property.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't understand this latest news. 

You said you already had spoken to the association and had given them your dimensions.... and they said it was OK.

So...what's all this, then ?

"build along the walls"...you said your height is 7', yes ????

I would actually ask the association (nicely) for their bylaws which specifies this; specifically, where does it say an accessory/yard structure has to meet the guidelines of a habitable structure ? _Have other people who have erected accessory structures (tool sheds, etc) also had to meet the guidelines they are telling you to comply to, and also had to go through this rigamarole from the association ???_ (which, BTW, carries no legal jurisdiction over building and zoning codes).

If it is written in the assoc's bylaws, and has been applied equally among all residents...it's one thing...BUT if it is just something capricious which someone there came up with...it's another.

If the use is not prohibited (which it likely is not) and the zoning code does not prohibit its projected size or siting....then the association is overstepping its legal bounds.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

Jaye said:


> I don't understand this latest news.
> 
> You said you already had spoken to the association and had given them your dimensions.... and they said it was OK.
> 
> ...


ya exactly i called em up they said they will let me know their thoughts on it. the wall is about 5.5ft. so i m a bit higher than tht. i guess the lady who said "ya u can have a cage " welll talked to the president of the club he said just move it 4 ft. from the walls and then tell em to call FBI let em come to your place and inspect it cos we r legally fine.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

well news update.
hoa said u r not allowed have birds outside but u can have them inside your house.
the sky is falling on my head now.seriously.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Time to move rent your house to a family of illegal aliens or 2.
Dave


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

airdrawndagger said:


> well news update.
> hoa said u r not allowed have birds outside but u can have them inside your house.
> the sky is falling on my head now.seriously.


Dont just take there word for anything they say, tell them to show you where it says it in the books. You need to get all the HOA rules and read them for yourself.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

ya well i did read it here it is and its cruel as it is weired.


"no poultry or livestock shall be kept ,maintained or bred in any lot or elsewhere in the comunity. 
so ya they said if i keep pigeons i have to keep them inside and not outside.
so ya anyone out there looking for a loft? i gotta pretty good one for sale.

thnx for all the valuable advices guys.
i appreciate it.
airdrawndagger


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

airdrawndagger said:


> "no poultry or livestock shall be kept ,maintained or bred in any lot or elsewhere in the comunity.
> airdrawndagger


I would battle them over the definition of "poultry"


Poultry is the category of domesticated birds that people keep for the purpose of collecting their eggs, or killing for their meat and/or feathers. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry

All domesticated birds used for the production of meat or eggs for consumption, for the production of other commercial products, for restocking, supplies of game, or for breeding these categories of birds.
www.fao.org/avianflu/en/glossary.html


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

Paki Tipplers said:


> I would battle them over the definition of "poultry"
> 
> 
> Poultry is the category of domesticated birds that people keep for the purpose of collecting their eggs, or killing for their meat and/or feathers. ...
> ...


hey u just gave me a reason to argue. lets c how it goes the battle starts on tuesday. thnx man


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

if this kinda thing keeps goin on then this hobby or even the sport will die out.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Pigeons are "NOT" poultry.
They come under the family of--Columidae----Pigeon and Doves
Google it.
If they can call pigeons --poultry ----then they can call cats "HORSE's".
And then they can enforce Cat owners requirements the same as Horse owners


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Unfortunately when someone complains they will give u a hard time.in my town it actually says no poultry or pigeons can be kept.I am using a preexisting shed as. My coop and just keeping a low profile and I am hoping no neighbors complain .in your case with someone coplaining it will be tough.but if the rules say poultry and not specifically pigeons you may be ok.I wish you luck


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Can you build a smaller coop out of sight of this neighbor


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Also read the rules if you can modify your walls. You might be able to bring them up a foot or more.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

What happens if you make it somehow an addition to your house? I've seen greenhouses and the like that were additions. Then would they be "indoor?"


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

all solid ideas and thnx for the good luck wish g-pigeon i will put these up against them and c how it goes.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Libis said:


> What happens if you make it somehow an addition to your house? I've seen greenhouses and the like that were additions. Then would they be "indoor?"


Yeah- that's a good idea. Make it like it's a sunroom or something. 
I was worried about my neighbors, cuz they are all perfect lawn, tidy yard types, and I my grass out back is a foot and a half tall, and littlered with all sorts of misc lumber. But, they were actually excited about it, and are eager to see the birds fly.

I had my own close encounter with zoning laws. In my town, the only animal specifically forbidden is sheep due to some disease outbreak back in 1896, so, as long as there is no noise (roosters..) or smell (herd of pigs..) you are good. However, when I searched the laws re pigeons specifically, there was a no pigeon clause- except for homing pigeons due to their usefulness in times of war. You could see if local city law trumps the HOA on that. You're just doing your patriotic duty to maintain homing pigeons in case your country needs them.  . 

Plus, no way i heck are they poultry- in fact, I looked into the laws re importing them from Canada (30 miles from me..) and I could not import them as poultry. But the main point is that the federal government makes a clear distinction between poultry and pigeons This link has some info- I know I found more specific stuff previously on this site. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/canada_bird.shtml 

Neighbors! UGH. HOA Neighbors- double Ugh. 

Good luck.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

NayNay said:


> Yeah- that's a good idea. Make it like it's a sunroom or something.
> I was worried about my neighbors, cuz they are all perfect lawn, tidy yard types, and I my grass out back is a foot and a half tall, and littlered with all sorts of misc lumber. But, they were actually excited about it, and are eager to see the birds fly.
> 
> I had my own close encounter with zoning laws. In my town, the only animal specifically forbidden is sheep due to some disease outbreak back in 1896, so, as long as there is no noise (roosters..) or smell (herd of pigs..) you are good. However, when I searched the laws re pigeons specifically, there was a no pigeon clause- except for homing pigeons due to their usefulness in times of war. You could see if local city law trumps the HOA on that. You're just doing your patriotic duty to maintain homing pigeons in case your country needs them.  .
> ...


i got more response than i expected ..and the link is cool it'ss b a good help i m thinking about seeing a lawyer.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

NayNay said:


> Yeah- that's a good idea. Make it like it's a sunroom or something.


Yeah, I've actually been daydreaming about doing something like a sunroom for my doves some day when we have a house--so the thought of making a normal loft look like one was an easy jump. 

I'd love to make one with frosted windows (so nobody flies into the walls) Then there could be live plants (all bird-safe) of all different types, maybe even a dwarf tree and some bushes for them to perch in.  Maybe a sitting area in a corner where nobody wants to perch. Colored concrete floor with a drain that's made to keep the holes away from birdy toes so that the plants can be watered easily and cleaning the floor can be done with a hose if the room is big enough. Waterproof walls that are easy to wipe off.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

Libis said:


> Yeah, I've actually been daydreaming about doing something like a sunroom for my doves some day when we have a house--so the thought of making a normal loft look like one was an easy jump.
> 
> I'd love to make one with frosted windows (so nobody flies into the walls) Then there could be live plants (all bird-safe) of all different types, maybe even a dwarf tree and some bushes for them to perch in.  Maybe a sitting area in a corner where nobody wants to perch. Colored concrete floor with a drain that's made to keep the holes away from birdy toes so that the plants can be watered easily and cleaning the floor can be done with a hose if the room is big enough. Waterproof walls that are easy to wipe off.


hahahah tht sounds like a heaven on earth for the birds or a spa.nice i wud sure like to c a picture of that.. i c u got ur birds in a room or some sort??i have them in my garage now hiding them from the neighbors.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

airdrawndagger said:


> hahahah tht sounds like a heaven on earth for the birds or a spa.nice i wud sure like to c a picture of that.. i c u got ur birds in a room or some sort??i have them in my garage now hiding them from the neighbors.


Yeah, if I had a house and money I would love to build something like that sunroom. 
Right now my birds live in cages in my bedroom, since that's the only place that is always safe from the cats. (It is exactly as below, but now the ringneck dove in the bottom cage has a mate and babies):


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

oooo nice that u even managed to get babies.good luck with the sunroom and babies.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

airdrawndagger said:


> oooo nice that u even managed to get babies.good luck with the sunroom and babies.


Thanks! I hope you find a way to get your loft.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I never know anyone that successfully had pigeons in their backyard with those HOA rules. Usually they will make rules as they go along until they say you can't have pigeons. Period.

The problem is not with the law, but your neighbor who hates pigeons. He/she will try to do everything (excuses) to discourage you from having one. And usually the HOA/bad neighbor wins because they are the ones that make the rules.

Sorry to be pessimists, but usually this thing don't ends well. I have no knowledge about indoor pigeon pets though.

If it works good luck! Usually when you have homing pigeons you want to see them fly....


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

RodSD said:


> I never know anyone that successfully had pigeons in their backyard with those HOA rules. Usually they will make rules as they go along until they say you can't have pigeons. Period.
> 
> The problem is not with the law, but your neighbor who hates pigeons. He/she will try to do everything (excuses) to discourage you from having one. And usually the HOA/bad neighbor wins because they are the ones that make the rules.
> 
> ...


exactly if dont fly wats the whole point? races r starting from september and if i m gonna have them then i need to fly em asap.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Unfortunately, HOA's were created by people who wanted to live in a more controlled environment, so they get really nit picky about stuff like the color of your house, etc etc. Then unsuspecting people come along expecting to live a normal life and find out the hard way that they are not the king and queen of their castle- which really sucks. 

Cities have a more reasonable approach to zoning and such- more about ensuring the common good for all citizens, and not catering to the special interests of the control freaks. 

Maybe instead of hosting a BBQ for the neighbors, you need to get on good terms with the HOA folks. They pretty much rule the roost. But, lawyer is a good idea too- esp since you were told yes- then told no. You acted in good faith, asked all the right people for permission- which is way more than I ever do-lol. For them to pull a reversal after the fact is causing you hardship, emotional distress- whatever you can come up with that sounds law suit worthy. People hate the expense of being sued, and the prospect of having a legal precedent set that could undermine the "power" of the HOA. After all, what if they had approved of the paint color you chose for you house, and then after the fact some neighbor didn't like it? 

Too many control freaks in this country. It's not very "neighborly".


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

NayNay said:


> Unfortunately, HOA's were created by people who wanted to live in a more controlled environment, so they get really nit picky about stuff like the color of your house, etc etc. Then unsuspecting people come along expecting to live a normal life and find out the hard way that they are not the king and queen of their castle- which really sucks.
> 
> Cities have a more reasonable approach to zoning and such- more about ensuring the common good for all citizens, and not catering to the special interests of the control freaks.
> 
> ...


lol.well im leagally ok with the cityhll jurisdictions and then the animal control so who else is there above the HOA? i mean pigeons dont fall under livestock or poultry and i m fine with the code 232.1.1 saying all the rules dont go for me since i m under a club of racing pigeons and takin part in a bonafied racing competition so i do not fall under tht certain code. now the HOA has this to say so i m gonna try to contact a lawyer today c what he says about this. is there a way or some upper law tht can remake or rejudge the HOA rules?


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, that sounds like a question for a lawyer. As far as I can tell, HOA's are little kingdoms unto themselves, and are free to make arbitrary rules. It's one of those situations where it is good to be involved in the meetings, get elected, etc- so you can be the one making arbitrary rules. I am hoping big for you to prevail.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

alright now they(home owners assoc.) told me to break it down so i did it. told em about these racing homers they said that file an application we will put it on the board meeting and see what we can do. told em i got 10 birds(which is a lie ) to fly and a small loft.
and i guess i have to butter up the bad neighbor lol...no other way out.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, it could be worse...it sounds like it could work out for you- I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

ya thts what i m doin now keeping em crossed but gotta do that untill july 18th lol...thts when the meeting is ...


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Well hopefully they realize that it really isn't anything to fuss about- and that you did your due diligence, have been doing everything by the book. Best of luck with them. And maybe ask your neighbor why it bothers him- I can't remember if he was the one that called them flying rats. But if he likes to garden, pigeon poop is great in the compost heap.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

NayNay said:


> Well hopefully they realize that it really isn't anything to fuss about- and that you did your due diligence, have been doing everything by the book. Best of luck with them. And maybe ask your neighbor why it bothers him- I can't remember if he was the one that called them flying rats. But if he likes to garden, pigeon poop is great in the compost heap.


ya this is the one tht made the coment (rats) and his backyard is a desert lol... and he looks like a dry person aswell. lol prolly gonna send him a pie or a cake and c how tht works out.
thnx for ur help.


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

another idea if they limit the number of pigeons you may have decide on the color you like the best and just breed them . one of my friends from my old neighborhood did that with his horses he wanted four horses the ccrs only allowed two , he had four all the the color he just keep two in the barn and rotated them. everyone was happy . let us know what happens . hope you do ok


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

shadowoak said:


> another idea if they limit the number of pigeons you may have decide on the color you like the best and just breed them . one of my friends from my old neighborhood did that with his horses he wanted four horses the ccrs only allowed two , he had four all the the color he just keep two in the barn and rotated them. everyone was happy . let us know what happens . hope you do ok


hahahhahaha thts a great idea lol....tht guy deserves a nobel prize.
thnx for ur help.


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

this flying rats thing has gotten out of hand , they do not ! transmitt desease as much as they would like you to believe , some of these people have gotten soooo micro with their little minds and want to repeate terms and call them their own , or just get a laugh . propaganda from the pest controll company ! has prevailed , we need to set them straight . plus most people who keep pigeons treat then as pets and take good care of them . just like their dogs are not wolfs , or their cats are noy wild mt. lions . im sorry tell the guy to go punnd it ! tell him you plan on only keeping 400 birds then when he looses it tell ok you will cut it down to a hundred as long as these people win something then they are happy . googd luck


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

sorry for the spelling i was trying to type like a person who types


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

shadowoak said:


> this flying rats thing has gotten out of hand , they do not ! transmitt desease as much as they would like you to believe , some of these people have gotten soooo micro with their little minds and want to repeate terms and call them their own , or just get a laugh . propaganda from the pest controll company ! has prevailed , we need to set them straight . plus most people who keep pigeons treat then as pets and take good care of them . just like their dogs are not wolfs , or their cats are noy wild mt. lions . im sorry tell the guy to go punnd it ! tell him you plan on only keeping 400 birds then when he looses it tell ok you will cut it down to a hundred as long as these people win something then they are happy . googd luck


hahahaha dont worry let me just convince these HOA guys and get my permit get things straight with the law and city then tht guy can take a hike ..


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

LOL on so much- the same color horse story reminds me of a rental I once shared with 2 friends- we each had a cat, each cat was your basic black and white type. We were only allowed to have 2 cats according to the lease, but we figured the landlady wouldn't notice, since they were all the same coloring. Well, we ended up breaking the lease, and moving- the landlady was really upset with us for that, but her parting shot was "And I Know you have 3 Cats!". LOL.


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

NayNay said:


> LOL on so much- the same color horse story reminds me of a rental I once shared with 2 friends- we each had a cat, each cat was your basic black and white type. We were only allowed to have 2 cats according to the lease, but we figured the landlady wouldn't notice, since they were all the same coloring. Well, we ended up breaking the lease, and moving- the landlady was really upset with us for that, but her parting shot was "And I Know you have 3 Cats!". LOL.


hahahahaahha...


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

a question guys! i know that every country has their own carrier and racing homers so i was wondering if there is such a program which i can join and rase and train homers for the U.S. government and get a permit for that as well. that wud b the perfect thing for me at this moment.

thnx


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## shadowoak (Mar 19, 2011)

i never heard about any thing like the county pigeon program . but if you do please let us know . my son lived in some apartment that did not allow dogs , but someone in the apartment complex got a dr. note say that they needed a dog to keep them from having a nervous break down . it worked


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

hhahahahaahah thts smart .


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Yup- the Americans with Disabilities Act- it got bent pretty bad there for a while- so now they don't have to let you bring your "therapy snake" ( Which are apparently actually beneficial to some folks- but could easily freak out someone who is afraid of snakes, and stumbles across on at 7-11) into public places. 

All I know re pigeons for the Government, is that in my town that is why they specifically allow pigeons- Homers in case of war. I think it is an old law- we can have just about every animal know to man if we take care of it- but no roosters- obvious reasons- and no sheep because of some weird sheep disease outbreak back in 1887 or something. 
So, you might be outta luck on the Gov angle, but could perhaps get an exemption for your health- since watching birds is relaxing. Most places freak out if you even Say "Americans with Disabilities Act". When I drove bus, we were told we could not ask for proof or question what exactly the animal did to help the person. We could only say "No pets allowed" and wait to see if the person was savvy enough to say "ADA service animal". Fear of lawsuits , it's the American Way-lol


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## airdrawndagger (Nov 23, 2010)

NayNay said:


> Yup- the Americans with Disabilities Act- it got bent pretty bad there for a while- so now they don't have to let you bring your "therapy snake" ( Which are apparently actually beneficial to some folks- but could easily freak out someone who is afraid of snakes, and stumbles across on at 7-11) into public places.
> 
> All I know re pigeons for the Government, is that in my town that is why they specifically allow pigeons- Homers in case of war. I think it is an old law- we can have just about every animal know to man if we take care of it- but no roosters- obvious reasons- and no sheep because of some weird sheep disease outbreak back in 1887 or something.
> So, you might be outta luck on the Gov angle, but could perhaps get an exemption for your health- since watching birds is relaxing. Most places freak out if you even Say "Americans with Disabilities Act". When I drove bus, we were told we could not ask for proof or question what exactly the animal did to help the person. We could only say "No pets allowed" and wait to see if the person was savvy enough to say "ADA service animal". Fear of lawsuits , it's the American Way-lol



oh cool.. but how do i get this ADA permit or where do i get it from??any one got an idea about the procedure and all.?


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, you need a Doctor to say that you have a disability, and that the birds are part of your treatment. Typically, this type of therapy animal is for anxiety disorders, but could also be heart disease, etc. You'd have to talk to your Doc, and be at least a little bit in need of bird therapy for him/her to sign off on it. But, it's not like getting a driver's license or something. It's more like a prescription.


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