# HELP! Found injured white pigeon with chest wound



## Sugar80 (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi, just found in Manhattan an injured white pigeon medium to large size with laceration in middle of chest, not bleeding profusely but an open wound. It was sitting on the sidewalk. Conscious, was moving around when we put it in a box. Called Pigeon People, The Wild Bird Fund, Pigeon Rescue NYC - left messages on all voicemails.

Put a bowl of water in the crate but it hasn't had any. Standing, eyes closed, seems to to be sleeping.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sugar80, thanks for helping this little guy out.

Do not clean the would with peroxide, if anything you can use a little warm soap water, or better still, make some saline rinse (1 teaspoon salt to 1 quart of water, boil, cool to warm).

Needs to be kept warm to help avoid going into shock, cover the crate with a towel to darken it a bit, as they feel more secure like this, can you post up a photo of the bird , its would and any fresh droppings that may have been done?

Here is a link with some basic info as well for now:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/basic-life-saving-steps-9457.html

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Chest wounds often pierce or rupture the crop (that is something that can be repaired). Can you let us know how high up the chest the injury is (a photo will help) and examine it closely to see if there has been any leakage?


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## Sugar80 (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi Karyn,

Thanks for the response. How exactly do I clean the wound, just pour the solution on the wound?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, just about, would put warm saline in a small squeezable bottle and hold some Kleenex/paper towel under the area to collect the run off, and the if need use a paper towels very soaked with the warm saline to wipe as well if need, looks like there might be damage to the crop area, wound looks to be fresh as well. If they can get stitched up right away, and put on a course of prophylactic antibiotic they will usually heal up without event. Stay on the local people there for help and I think there are a few vets as well that will see rescues, for little to no cost, so hang in there. If you have some Neosporin around, you can put a very light coat on the wound edges to keep the from drying out.

Keep an eye out if she drink, whether water runs out of the hole.

Karyn


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## Sugar80 (Dec 9, 2010)

OK, we squirted saline solution into the wound and a few seeds fell out -- could that mean that the hole/wound is in the throat and the seeds were coming out of its esophagus? Here is another pic after we cleaned out the wound. The bird was alert and tried to fly a little bit. Should we try to hand feed it/hand water at this point? Still waiting back to hear from Pigeon People, The Wild Bird Fund, Pigeon Rescue NYC.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

No food right now, it's hard to tell from the photo the extent and precise location of the wound. Could be just to the crop or could involve the esophagus as well. Allow the bird access to a water dish, keep her warm, some water may make it down pass the opening to keep her hydrated. I will PM a member in your area to see if he can help with resources, but I have not seen him on for a little while, so please continue on your side looking for help and anyone else that reads this thread that has some ideas for help for Sugar80, please chime in.

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Found this in our resource section there are bunch of NY numbers, try calling some and see how far you get, if they can't help ask who can:

http://www.pigeons.biz/pigeons/prd.htm

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Have you posted on *NYCPRC*?

With the wound high up the pigeon can get food (such as Kaytee Exact) by tube feeding a little at a time to the bottom of the crop.

*This video *shows how to do it , but as Dobato suspects the esophagus could be involved you will have to be very careful.

I will send this link to my pigeon-rescue Facebook friends in New York.
then you have to be very careful. 

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a past thread (there are pictures in a slideshow in a link in her posts) about a bear attack in New Jersey. One particular pigeon had its crop ripped open similar to this. In that case, we didn't bother to close with sutures--we just kept it clean and the wound tractored itself together within a few days.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/hurt-pigeon-north-jersey-29709.html

Anymore, I don't generally give them formula when they get one of these wounds because I find it too liquidy such that it sloshes out. I'd just as soon they ate seeds, especially peas and corn, as that way there's a lot less mess to deal with. If the wound is high in the crop, a minimal amount of food and water in the crop will be fine (gravity will do the job) and spillage looks worse than it actually is--so, more smaller meals work out fairly well. If the wound is way down low, then putting it back together is rather more helpful. And, also, if they're horribly jagged, it may require some kind of repairs. 

This one looks like it might have bled a lot initially, kinda' hard to say. If so, then the bird is usually "out of it" for quite awhile. You don't really want to feed a bird (or anything) that's in shock for that matter. Let's give it a little time and see how it goes.

Pidgey


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

give the rehab folks some time to get back to you, Im sure they will and can help you out...


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Sugar, Ante (rehabber in NYC) can help you out. He's trying to get an appt. for this bird with our avian vet (who is great with pigeons) as I write this. Where are you located? 

Jennifer


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Sorry, I just found out about this. Thanks Jennifer. Before I call, I need to know what is the present condition of the pigeon and where I can get him.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I just made an appointment with this avian doctor at 1:30 today. The only slot he has open. Sugar80, if you still have this bird, I think he needs an immediate help from a vet. Please let me know where I can get him. We have to work fast.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Injured bird*

Please respond to Ante. I also received a message from PJ , I am certain that he is referring to the same vet. He said:

"Cynthia...i am on my mobile and can't really respond directly. Please tell person to go to Dr. anthony pilny who is a pigeon vet on upper east side...84th street...the hospital is called Veterinary Internal Medicine and Allergy specialists. if she can foster the bird... ." 

If you can't pay the vet bill then there will be help with that.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I would be happy to take care of the bill and take the bird up there. I hope Sugar80 responds soon or is getting medical help for this bird somewhere else. Dr Pilny is in his office only until 2 today. I got the last appointment.


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## Sugar80 (Dec 9, 2010)

hey Everybody,

Thank you so much for the help and advice! We had the pigeon overnight and brought it to the Wild Bird Fund/Animal General in Manhattan yesterday morning. Kind of cool

http://wildbirdfund.com/index.html

Karen Heidgerd, the practice manager at Animal General and bird rehabber, said it was a juvenile King pigeon with an open wound to the crop. She was going to perform surgery on the bird yesterday and if successful, it will stay with them for about two weeks and then be moved to a sanctuary that specializes in King pigeons. We are still waiting for an update on the status of the bird. Here is a pic of the bird at Animal General.

http://reynardloki-nestsensation.blogspot.com/2010/12/blog-post_11.html

It was able to fly to the top of the door jamb. It looked OK. Will give an update when we hear of the status.

We learned that King pigeons are bred for food, and because of this, they don't really know how to fly or get food if they get out into the wild (usu. by escaping or by being released at weddings or funerals). So they will usually not survive in the wild.

So....now when we are out and about, we will be looking for King pigeons to try to grab them and send them to the sanctuary via Wild Bird Fund.

Karen is a wonderful person and animal advocate. And again, thank you all for your attention and support. It has been an intense 48 hours for us, during which we administered wildlife first aid for the first time (washing out the bird's wound with saline solution as per Karyn's recommendation). It is now the 3rd pigeon we have rescued in 3 years in NYC.

Though the majority of New Yorkers could care less about these birds, it is heartening to know there is a strong community of pigeon advocates here.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sugar80, thanks for finding this bird the help it needed and for updating us on its condition. Also good to have the feedback on the Wild Bird Fund/Animal General in Manhattan as a place to refer people to.

Please keep us updated, you did good!

Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well-done, Sugar ! Hope all goes well w/ the procedure....

Good resource/facility to know of, too.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so relieved to hear this story had a happy ending. Good work!


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## Sugar80 (Dec 9, 2010)

I just heard back from Wild Bird Fund. The bird didn't make it. They performed surgery for quite some time, but the damage to the crop was too extensive. The bird -- named "Sugar Ray" for the empty sugar box that was used to transport it from the sidewalk -- died peacefully under anesthesia and felt no pain. Sugar Ray's last night of life was spent at my home, warm and cared for. Without our intervention, this bird would have died in the freezing cold night, on the street. I added a blog post about this experience on my blog, 13.7 Billion Years. Apparently, all white pigeons seen in the wild are actually escaped King pigeons which cannot fly well or find food in the wild. If you find any on the street, they should be taken to the Wild Bird Fund, where they will be treated and sent to a private King pigeon sanctuary in upstate New York. Again, thank you everyone for your help and recommendations.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Sugar,

This is such a shame. I just want to note that these sort of surgical procedures (to repair "extensive damage") should really be performed by a veterinarian, not a rehabber. The rehabbers at WBF seem to be fond of performing such procedures themselves, but I can't help wondering if the bird's chances would have been better had he seen the vet that Ante offered to take him to. I have seen crop fistulas heal on their own with no surgical intervention, so while there's a good chance the bird wouldn't have made it, there's also a chance he could have. 

One other thing I wanted to clarify. Not all white pigeons seen in the wild are King pigeons. I know quite a few who are regular ferals. Also, not all King pigeons are incapable of surviving in the wild. They're all individuals--some do well, and some do not.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sugar80, I am sorry to hear this news, thanks for all you did for this poor injured bird. I had a question about the care provided, where Sugar80 says the bird died peacefully under anesthesia, wouldn't general anesthesia be something only available to a vet, not something in a rehabber's arsenal of tools to use?

Karyn


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Karyn,

These particular rehabbers work out of a veterinary clinic and, as such, have access to tools and meds including general anesthesia. I have witnessed general anesthesia employed and have knowledge of surgery performed independent of vet supervision there. 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the upstate sanctuary isn't just for Kings--they take all fancy birds. From what I have been told, there are enclosures for the birds, but they are allowed to fly freely.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

jenfer said:


> These particular rehabbers work out of a veterinary clinic and, as such, have access to tools and meds including general anesthesia. I have witnessed general anesthesia employed and have knowledge of surgery performed independent of vet supervision there.
> 
> One other thing I forgot to mention is that the upstate sanctuary isn't just for Kings--they take all fancy birds. From what I have been told, there are enclosures for the birds, but they are allowed to fly freely.


Interesting, there is something I think wrong, IMHO, with anyone other than a licensed vet using general anesthesia, plus there is the fact that birds, and in particular pigeons, are quite sensitive to anesthesia. If they got the levels a little wrong on the Isoflurane they most likely were using, there is also the possibility that it may not have been the injury, but that they took the bird too far under the plane of anesthesia and lost the bird. These people would be put on my use with caution list until I had a better picture of just what goes on there and what they are capable of doing, and more importantly, what they are not capable of doing.

Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I don't personally advocate surgical repair of crops anymore unless we're talking very minor surgery. Another point, it's easy to lose them if the anaesthetic plane goes too deep even if you're just doing it to clip their toenails (nobody does that, by the way). A possible complication might have been Pasteurella, it's been about the right amount of time--don't guess we ever did actually address what caused the wound on this thread (I sure didn't)...

Pidgey


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Dobato said:


> Interesting, there is something I think wrong, IMHO, with anyone other than a licensed vet using general anesthesia, plus there is the fact that birds, and in particular pigeons, are quite sensitive to anesthesia. If they got the levels a little wrong on the Isoflurane they most likely were using, there is also the possibility that it may not have been the injury, but that they took the bird too far under the plane of anesthesia and lost the bird.


Karyn, I agree with you. The anesthesia is one issue, but also the surgical repair itself. One might argue in favor of the anesthesia being used and procedure being done by someone other than a licensed vet if one were in a place with no access to vets where the animal's life depended on the intervention, but sadly that is not the case here.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Heck, it would be nice to find a vet that won't laugh at you when you say "can I ask you a question about my pigeon?" Guys in our club have taken to calling vets in other states. Makes the decisions about how hard to work on a bird much harder when you don't have all the tools that some of you folks have.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Sugar80, I'm so sorry to hear Sugar Ray didn't make it. You did all you could for him and it was far better that he died under anesthesia than out in the snow. I wouldn't be too hard on the rehabbers for attempting surgery--I can't think they would have done it if they didn't deem it necessary. You made the best decision you could with the information you had at the time. 

Some of the white pigeons you see in the wild are lost white homers used in release ceremonies. They have a far better chance of surviving than the poor Kings. 

Great blog, BTW. When I visited my daughter in NYC in October we were walking down the street in Manhattan and spotted a tiny warbler that had apparently hit a skyscraper and was stunned. I scooped it up from the middle of the sidewalk and placed it in a planter under a little tree, among the ornamental plants at the base of the tree. I hope it was ok--it appeared stunned but uninjured. Unfortunately I wasn't in a position to do anything else for it, but I've seen birds recover window-strikes before and hopefully this one did, too.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I am sad to hear this news as well. 

It can be very frustrating, but unfortunately the fact is that sometimes avian patients (or any animal patient, really) who are already compromised healthwise run risks under anaesthesia. To sorta second-guess at this point as to what may have gone awry (if anything at all, really) is just kinda pointless. If surgery was long, then obviously the crop was very significantly damaged...and bringing it back to a state of functionality might have been a challenge.

Sometimes we can only provide supportive care until we get them into the hands of someone more experienced than ourselves.

It was a good try, Sugar. In his own way, I know that Sugar Ray appreciated what you were doing and understood you to be a friend. And he can fly free now, in a better place.

Keep an eye peeled.....news of another helpful human in the city tends to get out fast in the Pigeon world. My guess is he will not be the last pigeon who will need your help.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Jaye said:


> It can be very frustrating, but unfortunately the fact is that sometimes avian patients (or any animal patient, really) who are already compromised healthwise run risks under anaesthesia. To sorta second-guess at this point as to what may have gone awry (if anything at all, really) is just kinda pointless. If surgery was long, then obviously the crop was very significantly damaged...and bringing it back to a state of functionality might have been a challenge.




I think the point I was trying to make, and not to speak for Jenfer, but I think she as well, was that general anesthesia is not something a rehabber should be doing and if the surgery was long, perhaps because of complications, maybe it would not have been as long if a trained vet were doing the procedure and who would have been better equipped to handle any challenges that may have occurred as well. As Jenfer mentions, if no other options were available, then perhaps what took place could be better understood, but there were options for a trained vet to undertake the care of this bird. 

I do think that people, that includes us here, should be aware of what takes place at Wild Bird Fund, in terms of rehabbers administering general anesthesia and preforming surgery that really a licensed vet should be doing, IMHO. This has nothing to do with Sugar80, who tried their best for this little fellow, but perhaps in the future now knowing that certain procedures should only be preformed by a licensed vet, one may be sought out for another bird in similar circumstances. I guess the bottom line for me is if this bird were a personal pet, would a person want anyone other than a licensed vet administering general anesthesia and then doing surgery and I know the answer I would give and probably everyone else as well, heck no.

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have an excellent small animal vet, he is someone that never prtends to know more than he does. If he doesn't know the answer he will tell me, research, refer me to someone more specialised, which is why I trust him and respect him as well as like him.

He told me some years ago that he would much rather not do surgery on pigeons because to be safe it needs special anaesthetic that is expensive in the UK and his surgery couldn't carry it because they saw so few birds, which meant it would cost £300 per bird. Things may have changed since then, the avian vet that we consult says that the anaesthetic she uses is safe ...but the bottom line as far as he was concerned was that he is not a very good anaesthetist when it comes to birds and he wasn't ashamed to admit it, even though he had never lost one of my birds. And he is a vet.

I am certain that the WBF is a wonderful resource, but for some time I have been careful about mentioning them to rescuers, depending on the state of the bird. I use the same criteria in the UK, I may refer baby birds to some rescue centres knowing that they will get excellent care and be released, but there are some illnesses and injuries that I would be very selective about which center I recommend. 

This is the sort of thing that we pick up through involvement on the forum and communication with other rescuers but - sadly - only when something has already happened that makes us wary. But it has to be discussed, otherwise we would just be burying our heads in the sand and letting the rescuers that we advise - and the birds that we may have been able to save - down.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Karyn and Cynthia, I'm in agreement with what you both posted. I just want to make it clear that I am not suggesting Sugar is at fault; clearly she or he was unaware of the things we are discussing here (which, as Cynthia points out, is the whole reason for discussing them). 

I wish I could be as charitable as Birdmom in my assessment, and certainly Cynthia is correct that WBF can be a good resource for certain things, but there is so much that is deeply disturbing about what happens there that I long ago reached the point where I cannot in good conscience recommend bringing birds there.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I understand that you have reservations about this place. But I think it's harsh to second-guess a rescuer who went the extra mile to help a bird in trouble. Most people won't even stop to help a pigeon, let alone take it to a rehabber. I still think she did the best she could at the time and she shouldn't be faulted for it. Not that you're actually blaming her, but if I were her and I was already sad about the pigeon dying, your comments would be salt in the wound. If you don't trust WBF then don't recommend them, but I think the discussion should go somewhere other than on Sugar's thread.

We don't even know that inappropriate anesthesia caused this pigeon's death. We couldn't see the extent of the injury to its crop, we don't know if a massive infection had already set in and the bird was too far gone to save. It looked pretty miserable in the photos.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Birdmom4ever said:


> I understand that you have reservations about this place. But I think it's harsh to second-guess a rescuer who went the extra mile to help a bird in trouble. Most people won't even stop to help a pigeon, let alone take it to a rehabber. I still think she did the best she could at the time and she shouldn't be faulted for it.


As I already said, I am not "second-guessing" or blaming Sugar. It was clear that she cared enough about the bird to pick him up and seek treatment for him. But that doesn't mean that what was said shouldn't be said for the purposes of helping future birds. 



> We don't even know that inappropriate anesthesia caused this pigeon's death. We couldn't see the extent of the injury to its crop, we don't know if a massive infection had already set in and the bird was too far gone to save. It looked pretty miserable in the photos.


We don't know why the bird died, that's true. But that's not really relevant, as I think some here understand. The point is whether it is appropriate for rehabbers to be doing things such as administering anesthesia or performing surgery. If this were an isolated incident, it would be easy to let it go, but unfortunately it is not, and as Cynthia said, there is value in discussing these things.

As far as the bird "looking miserable," again, that's not the point here. FWIW, I did see a photo where the bird was perched on a high ledge and seemingly alert that I did not equate with being "miserable."


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## maiochine (Jul 24, 2013)

Hello guys,
I have read this topic and found that that you guys are my only help here. 
I work on a vessel and we are currently in the middle of the ocean. 

2 days ago 2 racing pigeons had a pit stop here and they both had rings on their legs. I gave them food and water so they can carry on their trip and yesterday I woke up and got on deck and found out they were both gone. 

Late afternoon that day I saw one of the two walking on deck and the other one didn't show up so far, I'm hoping she's going back home. I approached her and she seemed different than the day before by the mean that was not sociable and tried to avoid me while she would come and eat from my hand usually. 
I noticed that she had a wound on the chest. 
I brought food and water and put it next to her but she seemed not interested at all. So today I decided to build her a carton box with holes and put her inside and placed her in a warm room on the vessel. 

When I caught her I looked at the wound and I could see her inside !!!
But she seems pretty active still ...
I would like to know from you guys what shell I do now and how to cure her and avoid she dies. My port call will be in 3 weeks so I have no help from vets. or what and I already reported that to the racing pigeons stray website and I am still waiting for a reply from them. 

Thanks for your help. 

Mario


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## Purdy (Nov 2, 2015)

Hi Mario, I'm sorry that no one replied back to you at that time. In case anyone runs into a similar situation (limited supplies and no access to a vet) super / krazy glue works surprisingly well.

After cleaning the wound, apply the super / krazy glue around the edge of the hole and then close it. Hold it close for a minute just to be sure and that should be it. It's not as good as a suture from the vet but it's the next best thing and the hole will not reopen. You can google this method as others have done this as well and their pigeons have recovered this way.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Unfortunately, Mario's post does highlight the problems of adding a new topic onto someone else's old thread. They can get missed - not often, but it does happen.


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