# Is this PMV?



## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

One of my thief pouter squeakers is walking around with its neck twisted 180 degrees. It looks like it's head is upside down. I think this started with a homer that made its way to a friend's loft. I took it in and within a week I noticed it twisted up in a corner. I had isolated it from the other birds but when I saw its condition I took it out of the loft and brought it in the house. Before I could find out what was wrong it died. 

Because I had the homer isolated I thought I was fine. Now my thief pouter is sick. I've been giving it and its mom (dad escaped the loft) foy's 4 in 1 thinking it was cocci. But something I read in a post now leads me to think its PMV. If it is will my little guy survive? I've got 7 other squeakers that I'm worried to death about. These are my first round of babies. I know PMV is a virus but is there anything I should be doing? I've already got the PMV vaccine. I was waiting for the youngsters to get a little older to vaccinate. This is the first time I've had any sickness in my loft in close to a year. In terms of medication all I have is the foy's 4 in 1, sulmet liquid and some pills I bought for salmonella.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Big Boy and welcome to Pigeon-Talk!

If you do have PMV in your loft, then you should be isolating any birds showing signs and giving them good supportive care (meaning make sure they are eating and drinking and tube feeding them if necessary). You are right that it is a virus and there isn't any treatment for it aside from good supportive care and assuring that it doesn't spread. Once the immune system is weakened by PMV, then bacterial diseases can set it.

We often give antibiotics to PMV birds to assure that another disease doesn't add to the problem.

Given the meds you have on hand, I would probably go with the 4 in 1, isolate any birds showing signs, and assure that they are eating and drinking adequately by tube feeding.

Good luck, and please keep us posted. Pigeons can and do survive PMV.

Terry


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

Thank you Terry. 

Luckily the one sick bird had just started to eat on his own so I took mom out.The sick bird seems to be keeping his head up right more now. Although if I go to pick him up he gets all twisted. I've been watching him close to see if he's eating and drinking and it appears that he is. None of the other birds seem to have caught anything. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I put both mom and baby on the 4 in 1. Ordered some more stuff from Global. Definitely dont want to get caught without meds again. I also planning to get a cage that I can keep outside the loft in case I get any more strays. Again thanks Terry.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Big Boy said:


> The sick bird seems to be keeping his head up right more now. Although if I go to pick him up he gets all twisted.


When PMV birds get stressed or have not been able to eat or drink adequately, the symptoms become very noticeable even if they had lessened for a time. If your bird does have PMV, then it makes sense to me that it would show the twisting symptoms when picked up. Getting picked up is stressful for the bird and the stress triggers the twisting.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Please be sure to separate any birds that show signs of PMV from the rest and to keep them isolated for at least 6 weeks as they will continue to shed the virus.

The nervous symptoms of PMV like torticollis are the last to appear, so please look out for earlier symptoms such as profuse watering droppings .

PMV birds are susceptible to fungal and protozoal diseases such as aspergillosis and canker, so keep an eye open. Don't give them yeast and antibiotics at the same time.

Please be aware that giving antibiotics as a preventative could aggravate the course of the disease.

I have included the link below to a thread on PMV so that you can familiarise yourself with the symptoms and the biosecurity measures that you can take to stop it spreading. You should start my removing all poop so that it doesn't become fecal dust (which carries the virus as it is shed in the poops), and disinfect all water containers. PMV spreads slowly through a loft but unchecked it can infect 70% of the birds, so you can stop it by taking the right measures.

The thread needs updating, John and I have realised that a very early syptom is when a pigeon stands very still as if it is playing statues. They also tend to fall into a sudden and deep sleep.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12250&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

You may want to try a corticosteriod, if you can get your hands on any. It is usually prescribed as an anit-arthritic drug under the tradenames Prednisolone, Dextrapredisolone, Cortisol,etc.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> You may want to try a corticosteriod, if you can get your hands on any. It is usually prescribed as an anit-arthritic drug under the tradenames Prednisolone, Dextrapredisolone, Cortisol,etc.


Cindy (AZWhitefeather) has the dosage instructions...you have to reduce gradually.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Cindy (AZWhitefeather) has the dosage instructions...you have to reduce gradually.
> 
> Cynthia


This is what was prescribed to Pij.

Pednisone 5 mg tablets

Directions:
Dissolve 1 tablet in 2.5 mls of water

Dosage:
Give 2 drops orally once a day (The vet instructed me verbally on the continued dosage)

I don't recall the _exact_ schedule for the gradual decrease but I believe it was the original dosage (noted above) for two weeks, then decrease to 1 drop daily for two weeks, then 1 drop every other day for a week, etc., etc.
Of course that may differ from how another vet would prescribe it.

Cindy


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

Thank you everyone for the information. Been a bit busy at work which is why I havent replied. 

Based on what everyone is saying, PMV may have been in my loft for a while and I only started to realize it when my birds started breeding. Almost all the birds I have were squeakers when I got them over the past year. It all makes sense now. I had a lot of problems with dead eggs. I figured it was because the birds were immature. I should have realized it was something else because even my adult thief pouters eggs werent surviving. 

This past weekend I cleaned and disinfected my loft from top to bottom. All of my birds are isolated within the loft in individual breeding cages (some are paired up). The infected bird is now living outside in a separate cage. I would bring it in the house but I'm allergic (long story) and would have to wear a mask around the house. So far none of the other birds seem to have the twisted neck problem. And I'm really hoping the one sick bird recovers soon. 

Thanks again.


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

*Pictures PMV Squeaker*

Finally took a couple of pictures. See below. 




http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=fck41h&s=4
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2myclll&s=4


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

There is a product on the market that should be used to disinfect the loft, and is a very powerful defense against all forms of viral and bacterial diseases, killing them on contact. It also is effective against mold spores, and the human form is used in hospitals around the world, and is called "Virkon". There is a veteranry grade that is used for chickens in broiler plants as well as for large animals. This is Virkon S, and I have used it for years now with great success.

It supposedly is for topical use, and is also used for washing feed troughs and water dishes. Quite by accident, it was also found to be useful as an aid to fertility in pigeons when a low dosage is put in the drinking water. My birds don't like the taste, but theu don't get the choice when I admister it....

The fertility increased dramatically, when I used it on a monthly basis. It is available (both kinds) from several vendors I found online, although it has not appeared yet in pigeon supply houses. It has particular beneficial effect on exotic newcastle disease, which is a first cousin to PMV.


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

Risingstar

Thanks for the information. I researched Virkon online and it sounds like a great product. At this point I'm prepared to buy anything to get rid of this disease.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I looked it up online. Sounds pretty good.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Based on what everyone is saying, PMV may have been in my loft for a while and I only started to realize it when my birds started breeding. Almost all the birds I have were squeakers when I got them over the past year. It all makes sense now. I had a lot of problems with dead eggs. I figured it was because the birds were immature. I should have realized it was something else because even my adult thief pouters eggs werent surviving.


OK, this is where I have to make an embarassing U turn and recommend a course of Baytril for all your pigeons You may well have PMV in your aviary, but the course of the disease that you are describing is not the course of PMV...the incubation period for PMV is just about 2 weeks, and although squabs dying in the nest is an early sign, dead eggs are not. 

What you describe in your last post is more consistent with paratyphoid . 

This is our own website (Pigeon Aid): http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/ailments___injuries.html It is based only on research as we have not had any cases of paratyphoid, and it is still incomplete as we were going to delete the page because we wanted to advise only on what we had experienced personally...but we kept it for our own guidance should we ever experience this problem.


Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis)

A bacterial disease caused by a salmonella strain (Salmonella typhimurium variety Copenhagen) 

Generally carried between birds through shared food and water 

Outbreaks are common during the breeding season

Symptoms:

Cock birds may appear fine one day, be dead the next 

Hens show weight loss, sticky droppings, swollen wing joint at elbow 

Eggs turn black and appear rotten 

Hatchlings begin to hatch then die in shell 

Seven to ten day old youngsters show diarrhea, dehydration and death - often, of two in a nest, only one is affected 

Twisting of the neck may occur, but this is more common with PMV 

Treatment: 

An antibiotic such as Baytril, which may be prescribed by a vet, is generally given 

Prevention: 

This bacteria likes alkaline substances, dislikes acid substances. Treat drinking water with apple cider vinegar 

Ensure rodents cannot gain access to the pigeon housing 

Strict hygeine 

Cynthia


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Cynthia, 

The guy who owns the pet shop near me also thought is was salmonella. All he had were pills and nothing that I could use to treat the whole flock. I suppose I could be seeing both PMV and salmonella. Unfortunately, I dont have any Baytril. From what I could tell, you cant get it from any pigeon supply houses in the states. I'm going to check to see what else is available. I've got a second squeaker showing the twisted neck but his nestmate is fine. Two other have watery droppings to the point that the pan at the bottom the cage has standing water. As you can imagine this is very frustrating. . .


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You can't get the brand name, Baytril, but you CAN get generic enrofloxacin which is the same drug.

Terry


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> You can't get the brand name, Baytril, but you CAN get generic enrofloxacin which is the same drug.
> 
> Terry


Terry, I've looked everywhere. None of the pigeon supply stores carry this anymore. Any tips where to find enrofloxacin online?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Big Boy said:


> Terry, I've looked everywhere. None of the pigeon supply stores carry this anymore. Any tips where to find enrofloxacin online?


I'm not familiar with this supply house, but their link came up first: http://www.verdugossupply.com/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=5 I was searching on generic Baytril +pigeon

Here's a couple more:

http://www.drugdelivery.ca/s46555-s-BAYTRIL.aspx

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/594-569.html

You can also use human Ciprofloxacin the same as Baytril and its generic forms. http://www.medsmex.com/store/product.php?productid=2895&cat=0&page=1

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> I'm not familiar with this supply house, but their link came up first: http://www.verdugossupply.com/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=5 I was searching on generic Baytril +pigeon
> 
> Here's a couple more:
> 
> ...


Hi Terry. I bought enrofloxyn online at Vita King. 
http://http://vitakingproducts.com/


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## Big Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Hi Terry. I bought enrofloxyn online at Vita King.
> http://http://vitakingproducts.com/


Just placed my order on Vita King. Thank you!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Big Boy said:


> Just placed my order on Vita King. Thank you!


You are most welcome. Good Luck.


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