# Foster Parents.



## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Hey, everyone,

I would just like know the experiences people have had with placing squabs with foster parents? I'm asking this because my pair of helmet pigeons seem to be lousy parents, lol. They've done this a few times now.. They'll lay eggs and around 8 days they just ignore them after steady incubation(The male refuses to incubate, at this time as well). Last time around I left them alone, because I figured I was just getting paranoid about the situation, but sure enough.. I had to retrieve the pair of ice cold eggs and candle them-- Only to see the blood rings and the extra air pockets that are made from the gas of the embryo decomposing. =\

They started the routine again with this clutch, so I removed them and threw together an incubator(I have experience in hatching/raising baby birds). One of them has been developing steadily and the other is questionable, but no obvious signs of death. My plan is to return the babies to the loft with either foster parents or the original parents. If rejection from these parents should arise, I will gladly raise them myself. Thanks for any information.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

We've done _lots_ of fostering and it's necessary for some short-faced breeds (tiny beaks) that can't feed their own young. Others just seem to be clueless as parents. It sounds like your helmets are such a pair. Most people I know who raise show pigeons use rollers and homers (which are excellent parents) as fosters. Here's how it works:

When the foster parent pair lays their eggs, you immediately replace them with dummy eggs. Then you place the helmets' eggs in the foster parents' nest and they will incubate them and raise the chicks. Don't worry about them not accepting another bird's eggs. They don't know or care; they love to be parents and will raise any egg placed in their nest. 

The trick is that you will have to get your helmets and the foster pair on the same cycle. Ideally they should lay their eggs within a few days of each other. If there's too much time in between, the fosters will either abandon the nest too soon or else not have enough crop milk for the chicks. If the helmets lay their eggs a few days before the foster parents, you can hold the eggs in a safe place for a few days and incubation won't begin until the fosters are ready. 

In order to get them on the same cycle, pull eggs at the same time so both pairs start over in the nesting process. This should result in getting them on approximately the same cycle. 

Pigeons will accept chicks too, up to the point where the feathers start coming in. But I like to have them raise babies from the egg when I foster. As you have observed, your helmets aren't diligent about incubating their eggs, so you will want to give the eggs to fosters as soon as possible. 

We have over 85 pigeons, mostly rollers, and I write down each hen's lay dates on a calendar. That way I know where everyone is in their cycle and always have fosters available for emergencies, either mine or a friend's. My rollers are excellent parents and I've provided my show pigeon friends with many of them to help raise their fancy babies. 

Depending on how much room you have and how many pigeons you plan to raise, you may want to keep several pairs of rollers as fosters. Rollers are the best fosters for small breeds like helmets because of their small size. See if you can locate a Birmingham roller club in your area. Someone might be willing to give or sell you birds that don't perform well but would do fine as fosters.


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Thank you very much! Sadly, I will have to use this for future reference, as we went on vacation and my grandfather(Who was feeding our animals), had some kids in our home who broke the eggs I was incubating!!!  I was very, very upset as one in particular had been developing nicely and it saddens me to think of such a loss. =\ I will be having a STERN talking to with those kids(They're not very little, actually.. 12 and 14.. So it was really sheer ignorance as I had asked them to leave the incubator alone..). *Sigh*

And this morning, I of course found another problem. My Helmet hen was sitting oddly on one of the exit/entrance perches for the outdoor aviary and she was breathing deeply. I had seen this before and could pretty much tell she was about to lay an egg(Which she normally does in the evening and in the nest)... I went inside to do a little research in case it was a respritory issue and came back to see a broken egg on the ledge. However, the egg was partially malformed and leathery looking. My only assumption would be that she recieved improper nutrition? My grandfather was watching the birds 5 days prior to today(We returned yesterday) and I noticed that the birds were VERY hungry when I came home. =\ Any help would be great. I'm sorry to burden you all with these issues. Thanks so much.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Ashbel,

Malformed eggs could be a result of a calcium deficiency....here is a good thread from our Resource section with advice on Prevention and Nutrition. Just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10859

I'm sure others will be along with advice and suggestions....and not to worry, you aren't burdening us...we're glad to help.

Linda


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about disruption in your birds care.

Make sure your hens have plenty of sources of calcium grit, like red grit, oyster shell cake, and perhaps a little vegies.

Your couples need access to a breeding loft if they don't have one, as that allows them to relax and not be stressed. The environment must be conducive to hatching and rearing and there should be no single males or hens to interfere with the natural processes.

I usually place my eggs with a proven pair of homers, if I am in doubt that my birds are able to hatch and raise a clutch.


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks everyone! I'll get on top of providing an extra source of calcium. The loft my birds are in is supposed to be a breeding loft, but there are a few grumpy singles due to new birds who came to me without mates. I was hoping that the sunlight in the aviary would be sufficient as far as clacium goes in egg development, but I'll have to track down a feed store or something that sells what I need. Thanks again.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ashbel, 

It does sound like a nutritional or probably a calcium deficiency as mentioned. Another thing you can give is liquid calcium to this helmet hen. A few drops down her throat for a few days will help her very much.

Sorry to read about those "kids" interfering with your birds, I can just imagine how angry and upset you were


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Thank you very much, I will look into this as well. I'm newer to pigeons and they are very unpopular as a hobby in my town, so I'm trying to track down any supplies stores and aquaintances who can point me in the right direction with these issues. I have made a few local friends, so I will get in touch with them as well to help in finding what I need. Thanks. 

And yes, I was actually tearing up a bit because I knew that poor baby would have suffered for a little while before it actually died.  

Thanks for your help.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi again Ashbel, 

If you find that you are having a hard time locating supplies that you need, here is a link to the various pigeon supply outlets in the USA. They have everything you can imagine at these stores and sometimes we have no choice up here in Canada but to order from them. I've ordered lots of products in the past from the various stores with no problem. It's a little expensive with shipping costs but the exchange rate is good right now at least.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

You can buy liquid calcium gluconate usually at drugs stores here and Relee (Robert) has mentioned in the past that you can buy oyster shell tablets at Walmart which are also very good he says.

You sound like a very conscientious pigeon person


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry about the loss of the eggs and the condition of your birds when you got back. Treesa brought up a good point about single birds in the breeding loft. They tend to cause all kinds of problems, especially to young, inexperienced breeders. If at all possible, separate them or find mates for everyone so you don't have singles. 

The soft egg shell and hen's difficulty laying it definitely sound like calcium deficiency. Do you currently give you pigeons any grit? I wasn't sure from your posts. It's imperative they have grit available to them at all times, especially when they are laying. We give our birds pigeon grit plus Calcium gluconate in their water a couple times a week.


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Thank you so much, Pigeonpal! I will check that out as well and see what the situation will be. 

Yeah, I tend to be watchful for any signs that don't seem to agree with the standard I've kind of set for my pigeons' well being, lol. My dad thinks I'm a worry wart, really.. But, I live by the saying "Better to be safe than sorry". 

BirdMom - We're in the middle of building our future "flying" loft and once that is complete I would gladly like to remove any grumpy little singles and let them stay there until I find proper mates. Some birds are still settling in from the big move to our loft as well it seems, so I can imagine that these pigeons who are still single are probably a major nuisance to the settled breeders. 

I'm happy you informed me about how they need grit at all times. I had read before that it was only really necessary when the parents are weaning their young. Had I known better, they'd be on grit already. I feel dumb, lol. Well, I will start offering grit steadily starting immediatly. Thank you very much for your help.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Don't feel dumb. Believe me, we all made mistakes when we were new to pigeons.  You're here asking questions and that's the best thing. If you can't find pigeon grit for sale in your area you can order some from one of the pigeon supplies Brad showed you. In fact, you can get everything you need from them. 

I hope you can find some kind of pigeon club in your area. The best way to learn is from "old-timers" who can give you pointers and show you how to do things.


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