# Hi newbie here :)



## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi, nebie here, I hope you are all well.

I am very new to the world of doves, just got two doves, fantailed I was told. I will post some pics soon. 

I am hoping to have them free in my garden and was advised to keep them in for 6 weeks then release one, then went confident it is returning release the other, then both. Is this advice correct?

I have a couple of questions, is the general advice on here in regards to pigeons relevent to doves ie feeding etc.

Also just read this: http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic/Ringneck/whiteringneck.html

That states that 'white' doves have no homing instincts, is this a separate breed? I know that white dove in dovecote do 'home' ? 

I have had had my doves for two and a half weeks now and they are getting very used to me and will sit besides the me and 'coo' and not appear spooked when I sit and talk to them  

Any advice appreciated


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi and welcome

If they are fantails, then they are a breed of pigeon as opposed to the doves shown on the web page you put the link to.

Fantails are not great fliers and won't have the degree of homing ability that white homers would have. But, depends somewhat how old these two are and if adults, whether they might attempt to home to their previous residence.

Pigeons (incl Fantails) usually eat a different mixture to domestic doves (maize, grains, peas and other specific legumes, seeds) although a dove mix would be OK to give them for a start. 

Glad they are nor unfriendly or fearful  Pigeons get used to people pretty fast, but many are wary all the same. Guess Fantails may be generally more placid (sure someone can tell you).


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes they are young, they could not fly properly when I got them. I got them from someone who had brought them then could not longer keep them so thats why I am a bit uncertain of the breed but was told they would 'home' ok. Will get some pics on in a bit 

Thank you for the reply


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Here's some pics of them 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...040857630876.122625.1527378037&type=1&theater


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

I got 

The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

when I logged in to f/book


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

sorry, put some more on through photobucket


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those are pigeons. And if you let them out, they could try to "home" back to where they came from. They aren't fantails, but could be a mix. Don't know how much tail they have from the pics.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

they aren't that young either to me, so free flying them you may loose them..


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

MMmm even more confused, no they have not got huge tails although more spread than the 'average' pigeon. If they were adults would they not just have flew off when I got them, they were in an open topped box and I carried them to my shed then just picked them up! a bit of flapping but certainly no flying, that was 2 and half weeks ago.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

their wings are clipped i can see that in the pic's thats why they can't fly...both have half of their primary feather gone i can see that in pic's thats why they can't fly ,these birds are at least over a year old..


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

good point horseart4u.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> their wings are clipped i can see that in the pic's thats why they can't fly...both have half of their primary feather gone i can see that in pic's thats why they can't fly ,these birds are at least over a year old..



Hadn't even noticed that.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

They are beautiful  I wouldn't let them fly around because they might go back to their previous owners house. If they have chicks then the chicks will stay if you let them fly around.


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Oh dear  

May have to rehome them to someone in that case. I don't have the room for them to be enclosed permantly.

Seems like I been conned slightly, although they didn't cost much, next to nothing, I have grown very attached  why would someone lie about this and not gain money? it's very strange.

I'm not normally one to part with any pet but if I cannot provide the care they deserve it would be heartbreaking.  They are too gorgeous for anything less.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

where are you keeping them now? you can keep inside you know..they make great house pets too...


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Yeah, lots of people keep them indoors. And if you're worried about the mess: http://www.birdwearonline.com/PGWearStore.html


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

They are currently in a large rabbit hutch LOL was planning to get a dovecote.

These pidgy nappies are sooooo cute! The thing is I would have a hard job keeping them in, I have three young children, aged 8,7 and 2 who are in and out of the garden like yo yos LOL I do not have a spare room to keep them in either 

Feeling a bit down about it to be honest, I was so looking forward to having them in the garden 

To add insult to injury the person who I brought them from is advertising more, on preloved, after telling me through a friend he needed to get rid of all his 'doves'. I called him today, he made every excuse in the book of course!

This is his current ad : http://www.preloved.co.uk/eu?qs=Jfk...aZYx0t6GeWuab-MV7nbaidqjE-03c9ZmmfiDQsREODUfA


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i just looked at the add..there was no picture that i saw, but he sure doesn't know a pigeon from a dove..and if you have them in a rabbit hutch now why not keep them in there in your garden? you just can't let them out or they may fly away..like said before if you have a " pair" hen & cock they may have babies, you could let them out eventually...


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

No there's no pic, but he does state Doves.

He probably resells them when they return! 

If they have babies I could let the parents out too then? Would they all stay together?

I feel a bit cruel keeping them in such a small area, I don't even have my rabbits and guinea pigs in hutches all day


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

they may stay after they have young and feel that this is HOME and a safe place. you show them love FOOD and water they may just stay.. but i would wait to let them out after their young can fly and she is sitting on the second clutch of eggs. that way they know to come back they have another family to raise...but like i said before and has others they may not...it is souly up to you, if parents do fly away you'll have the babies..


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

They don't need a whole room to themselves. You can keep them in a large dog kennel (the wire kind) indoors and let them out in the house to play. All of my birds and my sister's budgie live this way in bird cages and guinea pig cages (doves need a bit less room than a pigeon, and they are gigantic gpig cages.) (Waffles the budgie is never out at the same time as the softbills.)  The 2 year old might need a bit of extra watching around them. Other than that--it usually works pretty well for people. 

I had my first bird (a budgie) at 4 (with plenty of guidance from mom.) Children can learn to be gentle.


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes my children are used to animals! I have three rabbits , four guinea pigs, two chinchillas, one hamster, 4 fish a dog, and three horses and the pigeon/doves. I used to foster guinea pigs to for a rescue so have a few spare cages.

I have a area of the garden sectioned off, not completely cat proof but never seen any in there that I let the rabbits and guinea pigs loose in, it attaches to the garage so they have access to there too. This is the area where my pigeon/dove hutch is, I usually sit out with the animals quite a lot and the pigeons do come near to the sides and coo so they are getting used to me, they even don't get spooked by my two year old. 

Will have to have a think what to do


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

These look, to me at least, very much like mine, so are these not 'garden' pigeons/doves too?

http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1032547767/84f1dc37.html 

Just considering getting 'garden' ones too, as originally planned, but now I am soo confused!! Some ads say garden doves, some say garden pigeons, is there actually a difference? 

Sorry about all the questions but the more I read the more I am getting confused.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Ange17 said:


> These look, to me at least, very much like mine, so are these not 'garden' pigeons/doves too?
> 
> http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1032547767/84f1dc37.html
> 
> ...


You might as well breed babies to keep in the garden from the birds you have. Adult birds from someone else may be just as likely as the ones you have already got to leave. Birds raised at your home will stay at your home and you won't have to buy them. (Assuming your pair is a male and a female and they are both fertile. Probably they are fertile--doves and pigeons are very talented at having lots of babies. XD )

The difference in names here is between Streptopelia risoria (ringneck dove which does not have homing capability) and Columba livia (the rock pigeon sometimes still called "rock dove".) People who sell garden pigeons sometimes use the name dove to make them more easy to sell because it sounds nicer. A lot of people hate pigeons without ever having known/had one. 
Just be sure to get Columba livia and you'll be fine.  
http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/rock_pigeon/id
Ringneck doves are smaller and coo differently--like this: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGJzVRBmKbA


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Ange17 said:


> Just considering getting 'garden' ones too, as originally planned, but now I am soo confused!! Some ads say garden doves, some say garden pigeons, is there actually a difference?


The terms 'pigeon' and 'dove' are often used interchangeably when it comes to white ones. True Fantails are referred to as either, though they are a breed of pigeon (same 'basic model', so to speak, as produces homers and feral pigeons - i.e., _Columba livia _species, but bred for their particular characteristics). White pigeons are just that, without the fan tail - these have better flight and homing ability. Actual white doves, strictly speaking, are bred from domestic Ringneck Doves or related species and are not suitable for dovecotes.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Another thought is that you could build a walk-in loft with an aviary/locked off area for this pair to fly around in and an open section for birds that are homed to your house (like the current birds' children.)

There's a whole section to the forum on different styles of loft to help with this, if you decide it's a good idea for you.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

welcome ange17
if i was you i keep them because they look like a mix of homer and fantail so they will probably home better , it more fun to see your bird fly for a long time in the sky then to be all day in the loft or a tree branch. if you look it my album you see i have fantail ,nuns and other which are beautiful ,but guess what i have more fun watching my homer fly for 45+ minutes in the sky,here my album there two pages so click at the bottom http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1582


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

rafael/PR you have some pretty birds


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Thank you for all the replies, gorgeous bird pics too  So basically t's just a matter of hoping they are male/female and that they have fertile eggs  If they are, as someone suggested, adults, how often do they tend to lay eggs? 

I do have a garage that is currently full of guinea pigs and rabbits, and a hay stack  maybe I could have a change around and section off a walk in area.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

From what I have known these look like garden doves as they say in the UK, which can be resettled to your dovecote. As you know they are not ringneck doves but rock pigens which are larger and hardier than the turtle doves or ringneck doves that are house pets.. these are the ones for dovecotes that ones sees in allot of back yards all around England.


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> From what I have known these look like garden doves as they say in the UK, which can be resettled to your dovecote. As you know they are not ringneck doves but rock pigens which are larger and hardier than the turtle doves or ringneck doves that are house pets.. these are the ones for dovecotes that ones sees in allot of back yards all around England.


That's what I was originally told and what I wanted them for, I am from the UK, but most people on here think they are not


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I know what they are because I love them and wanted some..but they do not have them here in the US, I even have emailed breeders in the UK to ask what mix they are.. was told they are a long line of different breeds homers and fantails and other breeds.. they are bred to settle to a dovecote... so I would go ahead with your plan..these have a bit of a fan to the tail and are for looking at as well.. it is what they are for... enjoy!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

here is a link that may be of some help..it kind of rambles on but it is helpful in it's way..or Im sure you can contact Ron to know more..
http://www.forshamcottagearks.com/dovecotes/dovecotes-software.htm


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Ange17 said:


> That's what I was originally told and what I wanted them for, I am from the UK, but most people on here think they are not


I have a 'garden dove' right here in the room with me  He's in my apartment doing his quarantine until the coming weekend.

Our vet reception called a few weeks back to say someone had brought in a baby dove that couldn't fly and could we take it on (they are not geared up to keeping birds in for long).

Of course, turned out it's a young white pigeon. He could well be one of those crosses. Though he hasn't the fantail build, he walks kinda like our 'semi fantails' as I call them and his tail is very well defined when he fans it.


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Love the fact that he is standing on your bird books!  He's cute 

I do think their tails vary, as they are mixes, as I said not an expert but had a long conversation with a breeder I was going to buy from before I was offered these two. I think, as you said John, the term Dove is just a term used for white pigeons generally.

Yours is not that dissimilar to mine 










The chest on mine looks more defined too, but they do look different depending how they are sitting.

While not disrespecting anyone's expertise I am thinking maybe the fact that they are unknown in the US, as Spirit wings stated, is the cause of the confusion? I noticed most of the replies apart from yourself John, are from the US. 

Mmm got me thnking now!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Ange17 said:


> Thank you for all the replies, gorgeous bird pics too  So basically t's just a matter of hoping they are male/female and that they have fertile eggs  If they are, as someone suggested, adults, how often do they tend to lay eggs?
> 
> I do have a garage that is currently full of guinea pigs and rabbits, and a hay stack  maybe I could have a change around and section off a walk in area.


Well, first they have to be bonded. Are they preening each other and acting all lovey-dovey? "Kissing?" Once they get started, it should be around every 20 days. There'll be two eggs a day or two apart. They won't necessarily sit on the first egg until the second appears. That's fine--it'll make it. 
references: 

http://pigeons.forumotion.com/t1997-the-first-round-of-eggs-in-the-pigeon-breeding-cycle

http://www.forshamcottagearks.com/dovecotes/dovecotes-software.htm (this one calls them doves, and it's kinda long and dramatized lol--they're still pigeons.) 

There's some info on this one about getting birds to home (as adults). It's doable but not 100% sure that they won't go home, they still might remember where they were born:
http://www.thedovecoteco.co.uk/keepingdoves.php

More on dovecotes and different types of garden pigeons. This has a nice explanation of breeds and a visual representation of how he homes his pigeons:
http://rupert-fish.co.uk/fantail-dove-pigeon/

It doesn't have to be walk-in indoors. You're thinking really gigantic.  If you wanna spoil them that's ok though. It's also ok for you to keep them caged in a parrot cage or big dog kennel and let them out to fly in the garage/house. 

How do they behave in general? A cock will (usually) come off as exactly that "cocky." He'll be loud and strut in front of possible females and potential threats to his territory. Hens are usually quieter. Hens can get very protective of their nests though--and either parent may slap you with their wing or peck at you. (It doesn't hurt--but they think they've mortally wounded you and successfully defended the babies.)
There are exceptions to sex-linked behaviors just as in any other species.


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Libis said:


> Well, first they have to be bonded. Are they preening each other and acting all lovey-dovey? "Kissing?" Once they get started, it should be around every 20 days. There'll be two eggs a day or two apart. They won't necessarily sit on the first egg until the second appears. That's fine--it'll make it.
> references:
> 
> http://pigeons.forumotion.com/t1997-the-first-round-of-eggs-in-the-pigeon-breeding-cycle
> ...



Thank you for the links, very useful. I was told of the six week homing period. That's why mine are still in their rabbit hutch. I was told to release them separately at first too so they will return to the other one.

I did see the Rupert Stephenson website and sent him a picture of my doves asking what he thought, this was his reply, quite encouraging  :

''all garden doves are white pigeons of some sort, usually bred to look nice 
and be placid, containing a lot of Belgian white racing pigeon and fantail 
pigeon
they call them doves as dove sounds nicer than pigeon, but all pigeons 
descend from the wild rock dove

age, my guess about 9 months by the look, a typical garden dove showing a 
little cone tail from its parentage from the fantail
homing, keep them in for 6 weeks , and only let one out at first to act as a 
call to the other one

i have only twice in all the years i kept garden fantails that they did not 
home, and that was because in my opinion they were not kept in for six weeks

if they lay eggs or hatch young in the 6 weeks they will stay for their 
young


thank you
Robert(Rupert) Stephenson
Coventry, England.

www.rupert-fish.co.uk ''

I think they are probably fantail/pigeon mixes, comparing their tails to other pigeons and this reply.

Behaviour wise, I have not really noticed the behaviour you state, they both seem similar, they seem to focus on me rather than each other while I am out with them though  One does seem to 'sit' more than the other but not much other difference.


I'm wondering if they are not male/female would they 'home' or try to go to find mating parters?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Ange17 said:


> Thank you for the links, very useful. I was told of the six week homing period. That's why mine are still in their rabbit hutch. I was told to release them separately at first too so they will return to the other one.
> 
> I did see the Rupert Stephenson website and sent him a picture of my doves asking what he thought, this was his reply, quite encouraging  :
> 
> ...


Sometimes birds will bond to a same-sex partner. My diamond dove hens are like that. I don't see why your birds wouldn't want to come back to their buddy. Though there can be a lot of soap operas with pigeons, lol. Maybe you can give them some fake eggs a day or two before you let the one out to convince them of the need to return? (Just a random idea--not sure how good it is.)


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Libis said:


> Sometimes birds will bond to a same-sex partner. My diamond dove hens are like that. I don't see why your birds wouldn't want to come back to their buddy. Though there can be a lot of soap operas with pigeons, lol. Maybe you can give them some fake eggs a day or two before you let the one out to convince them of the need to return? (Just a random idea--not sure how good it is.)


Worth a try 

By the way Adelita and Edmund are really nice, what sort of pigeons/ doves are they?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Ange17 said:


> Worth a try
> 
> By the way Adelita and Edmund are really nice, what sort of pigeons/ doves are they?


Lita and Ed are ringneck doves.  They live indoors in a big parrot cage. 
http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic/Ringneck/ringneckdove.html
http://www.diamonddove.info/bird11 Ringneck.htm

If you would like to see more pictures, here are some of my albums: 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1488
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1378

And these are Edmund and Adelita's babies:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1713


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## Ange17 (Jul 3, 2011)

Aww they are cute  

I'm a bit short on space for indoor cages, I already have a large parrot cage for my two chinchillas, a hamster cage, and a fish tank in the living room


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