# Won't Go Back Into Cage - Habits to Avoid?



## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

I wanted to get your advice on how to avoid setting up some bad habits and patterns from the start.

We've let our boy out of his cage (in our pigeon-proofed office/dining room) on a few occasions and he enjoys it tremendously. Most of the time, he flies from shelf to shelf for a bit then settles on a top shelf for a while and just sleeps.

Problem is, he doesn't like his cage and won't go back. At all. I don't blame him, but it's an issue if we're going to cohabit happily. 

I think we rushed the "letting him out" part and we probably need to back track. We really felt for his frustration in the crate, and succumbed to those feelings of sympathy and empathy.

The first time he went out, we were able to lure him back in with treats, no problem. He was a champ.

Now he's wise to it. He simply won't return to the cage. Even if he hasn't eaten and is really, really hungry. He'll coo at the food, but he won't budge by going in to the cage. We feel we can't try to grab him or chase him because in an effort to escape us, he could hit something in the room unintentionally. Or, become so fearful of us and our hands, we'll never develop a relationship.

He's funny, though. He'll quickly find a few seeds he's kicked out of his cage, pick those up, then swoop on back to the shelf. Or, he'll keep one foot on the outside and reach in for whatever he can find -- ready to launch if we try to close the door. He's crafty and it makes us laugh . . . on one level. 

Should we cage-confine him for a while until he knows us better? Again, we probably rushed this and need to know how to fix our mistake. He does not like to be handled, even if we're not trying to get him back into the cage. Is it idealistic to think a homer used to flying could ever get accustomed to our situation? We are truly a pair of newbie knuckleheads! 

Thanks for any advice!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Of all the indoor residents (temporary, though for several weeks with some) I have only had two who would go in at night with little if any complaint. I always allowed them the freedom of the room as soon as they were recovered enough from whatever ailed them to be showing some spiirit and a good appetite.

Normally I put the lights out, check position with a small torch (I can get real close like that) then put down the torch and scoop up the pigeon. After the first few, I got it right. Most did not struggle once I picked them up in the dark, so I could pop them into the cage. But, I swear some of 'em gave me a most evil glare once they were in and the light went back on 

John


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## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

John_D said:


> * But, I swear some of 'em gave me a most evil glare once they were in and the light went back on*
> John


_....lol.... YOUR just plain rotten John!.....making them go to bed!,,,LOL No wonder your getting the evil glare.... _


Well, I'm not sure how I trained mine to go to bed or go home as we call it in our house... but I know that I am consistant with what I say and I repeated it a lot...

When they are out I say, "Go home" and point and off they go....(most of the time) Sometimes they get the devil eyed look and grow horns... LOL.. then I have to very nicely chase/tell them that they are going to bed whether they like it or not...LOL.... Normally I just clap my hands and say..."Go home" and point though.... 

So my advise is be consistant and maybe figure out what a "treat" is for him. For example mine love safflower... so you could sprinkle some in the cage on the floor and possibly lure him in that way. (or whatever he loves, peanuts, hemp...etc.)

Do you have a shelf in his cage...and a nest??? That could help too, if you don't!
I find that as the day is winding down and the sun sets that mine know to find their "spot" before lights are out! SO, if he is in a main area of the house maybe you could regulate the lights to simulate that? Just an idea if nothing else works....

BEST of Luck ...


Also, this relationship is so new----- it will take time for him to trust you. I have a new one right now ... and trust me I have to chase him down in his cage to feed him 3 times a day... It is kinda like us, we wouldn't want to be chased down BUT if we get chased down and then someone rubs our back... well.... won't take us long to figure out that we need to stop running! Needless to say--- IT will get better! takes time.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Out of 20 something birds I have, only one hen goes to her cage when I tell her to go. Mind, she is not trained or anything. First time I chased her around until finally got her, placed her on the cage door and told her to get inside. Next time she did it when I told her. Two of my hand-raised babies (now large cocks) let me pick them and they are so busy chewing and gnawing my hands that I can put them in the cage. Two other hens are so greedy that just by putting food in the cage makes them swoosh in. Three of the birds will come to me when called so I can lock them in. Rest of them needs to be herded, collected and chased until everyone is in. All this could be avoided if I had more time to spend with each bird separately. Every pigeon can be tamed to some extend by using food, bath, threats, words etc.
My opinion is that you are rushing things with your pigeon. Let him be in the cage for couple of weeks, month. He needs to get used to the cage and accept it as his personal space and territory. Only then he will return to the cage when out. If you feel that he needs exercise, you can let him out just before dark and catch him and hold him when dark just to get used for you holding him. In the beginning all birds protest when handled. Once get used, they still don’t like it, but accept it stoically.
Unfortunately there is no universal recipe how to get trust of pigeon time and patience are salt and pepper, the rest is up to you.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

plamenh said:


> Out of 20 something birds I have, only one hen goes to her cage when I tell her to go. Mind, she is not trained or anything. First time I chased her around until finally got her, placed her on the cage door and told her to get inside. Next time she did it when I told her


I had an experience quite like that 

I had 3 PMV birds inside for a couple of months. Two I could catch as they were non flying, the third 'got her wings back' quite quick and perched atop a wardrobe. After a couple of times chasing her around, putting lights out, etc. I found that if I put my hand up close, she would fly down and just meekly go into her cage and up on her brick. I was quite amazed, I must admit!

John


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

plamenh said:


> ...He needs to get used to the cage and accept it as his personal space and territory. Only then he will return to the cage when out. If you feel that he needs exercise, you can let him out just before dark and catch him and hold him when dark just to get used for you holding him. In the beginning all birds protest when handled. Once get used, they still don’t like it, but accept it stoically...QUOTE]
> 
> Excellent point! Pigeons are real homebodies, once they have declared it to be home.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you all! Yep, we realize we didn't give him enough time to make his cage his "home." That was a huge mistake. Time for Plan B. 

To boot, we haven't been able to find a nesting situation he likes. We've tried so many different things. He chooses to roost on the back perch in the cage, an 8-inch wide piece of wood but definitely not a nest or enclosed. We'll keep working on that. If you look at my profile, you can see a photo of his crate situation. If you have any ideas for how we could set it up better . . .

I don't know how to catch him without shocking him and sending him flying into some object in this room. That was my concern. When we work with wild birds in a rehab setting, we turn out the lights (as many of you have suggested) and also have a net as a backup. But they don't need to be comfortable. They will be released. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to try and net or otherwise chase a bird you're trying to get acclimated in your place. (We do have a large net for animal emergencies.)

Here's the catch: I've read (true?) that pigeons can't see very well in the dark. And I fear that if I miss him on my first try, he'll go flying into something head first out of panic in that dark room. It's not a bird-only room so there are a few things he could hit (book shelves, window blinds, etc.) He obviously navigates them fine in the light. What do you think?

I let him out last night, about two hours before sunset, thinking he might go back in for bed. "Bed," he decided, was on top of the bookshelf. Ha. I couldn't catch him to save me. I didn't get him back in until 8:30 this morning. I was really nervous because I didn't want him possibly hurting himself during the night. It would be his first night out of the cage. I left a light on low which kinda sucks for him, no darkness. By then, he was hungry enough. But he really tried not to be locked in. Too funny. But also a little nerve-wracking for a pigeon newbie.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Not to worry, pigeons do not like handling, but will accept it and won't get heart stroke as some wild birds. Bird that was chased, handled and acted as the end of the world is coming will start preening, eating and acting like nothing happened the moment you put it back in cage.
One of my rescues was acting ballistic when I was around. Time come when I did released him. Two days later, he was back hungry, came straight to my shoulder and started preening my ear. Sort of apology that he was being rude to me. This is totally new bird now, one of these that come to me when I call. 
What we don’t realize is that pigeon psychology is as complex as human, just a bit different and only with time we get some insight into it.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Hey ppl 
Great to read the varied responses. I'm a bit surprised to read that many did not/do not have birds that go back into their cages/coops. I'm a relative newbie. It's been less than 2 months I've had the flock of angels, and at first I had to chase them all over to put them back in.I have 4 coops in one house.[see pics:album pic mite help] and they would not go at all  Once I started putting them in the same coop every time, they started recognising it as their own. Now I just stand up and clap.They go back to their proper coops,except one pair, that knows where the coops is,[looks up at it] but cannot fly up to it. them I put in by hand, albeit with some lite struggle.Also I've learned [much 2 my surprise] that they respond to pointing quiet well,even if I am silent. Valeri, I know how it is when u are a newbie[ like me ] we dont want to 'hurt' them or make it harder, but keeping them confined for a bit is nessesary[ much to my distaste]. Hope it takes to your crib soon and easily. Peace


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## RJHufford (Aug 27, 2009)

I just had sort of a break through on this subject, just today actually. Our pigeon, Gabe or Gabby (still undetermined at this time) well, he goes in and out of his cage during the day for food and water. While in there though, he always keeps a close watch on where we are, making sure that we are not too close to his cage as he seems to believe we might shut him in. He eats and drinks quickly, then leaves the cage. When his "night night" time rolls around, my husband is able to approach him very slowly with hands on each side of him, and pick him up without a fuss and place him in his cage. This is a routine that fortunately only took about a week to accomplish without the fuss. Within the first week, "night night" was a 20 minute exasperating process. Following learned advice from this site, I added a big mirror to his cage, as well as a bowl filled with shredded paper and Timothy Hay. (Thank you Charis) The mirror took some time for him to adjust to. I hung it in there next to his "nesting bowl" during the day, but would take it out and night because he would not get in the bowl if the mirror was there. Last night, as is routine, I removed his mirror as I always do, and he became very agitated. So, I put the mirror back in there and he happily hopped into his bowl for sleep. That was a first! Which brings me to my next first. Just a little while ago, I walk into the living room, and there is Gabe, inside his cage, roosting in his bowl, on his own, with door wide open, no concern that I will shut the door, at 1:00 in the afternoon. I could not believe it! 

I am very new at being a pigeon owner so all I can do is share with you what I have picked up in 4 weeks time. Be gentle but persistant. Nite Nite time will start to work out. If he is perching where he should not be, gently shoo him away with a stern NO, as many times at it takes. He will still test you. I am learning that Gabe is very much aware of where I don't want him to "hang out" cause if I walk in and he is in one of the "NO" places, he will flee the spot as soon as he sees me. I have also learned his body language of when he wants his bath. He will walk around my kitchen sink area goose necking at the faucet. With that, I will get his kitty litter tub and towel, and he hangs out there while I fill the tub with water. We are still learning each other, but I am starting to understand his body language. He can be very hard headed, but as I shared with one my friends I have made here, I can be too! I have a heart of mush, but roosting over my kitchen table or on my cloth covered lamp shade, will always be a hard core No No! 

So, in summary.. be gentle but persistant in your routines.. I am finding that does work. I wish you the best.. 

Ruthie

Gabe or Gabby, as I found him/her in his home, by his/her own choice, just a little while ago.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Gabe has a beautiful home, Ruthie! He's also a MOST handsome pij (or beautiful hen!))

Sounds like things will settle down, Valeri. Chauncey just needs some time and once he decides that his cage is *his*, be prepared for beak strikes and Wing Fus when you are in *his* territory! 

However, for now the key is patience ("yeah, patience! How long does _that_ take? AN HOUR?!") 

ALL THE BEST with Love, Hugs and Scritches (when he wants 'em!)

Shi/Mr. Squeaks (who is the ultimate pij w/attitude and admires Gabe's persistence!)/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

valeri said:


> ...To boot, we haven't been able to find a nesting situation he likes. We've tried so many different things. He chooses to roost on the back perch in the cage, an 8-inch wide piece of wood but definitely not a nest or enclosed...


For a pigeon, there is a difference between roosting and nesting. Roosting is done by single birds or males keeping an eye on their nestbox. A good spot for roosting is flat, at least 4"x6", and against a wall but otherwise open for keeping an eye on things. 

Nesting is for birds which are paired or hoping to be paired. Males establish a nest area so they have something to show their prospective mate. Nesting spots should be as high and dark and enclosed as possible, while still allowing the bird to enter and exit.

Of course, these are generalities and each bird is an individual.


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## Tamara21 (Jun 24, 2009)

First off all Valeri - patience my dear...you are doing wonderfully and it will come in time.They take a lot of work but as you are seeing they are a great addition to the family.Petey doesn't go into his cage...and my hand gets gnawed and pecked at the whole way to the cage from his perching spot and sometimes that happens three times before I can get him in and shut the door.I did learn to not be so afraid to catch Petey.At first I was like you and worried he would fly off and hurt himself or something awful....you should have seen me this weekend wrestling with Petey to put that darn diaper on him...I said ever so slowly...I am a human I can win at this...LOL...a little pijy was kicking my butt!!! But they are more resiliant then you would think.Just use some suggestions here...I wouldn't use the net...that would seem worse.He will learn to get used to you. 

Second, wow Ruthie! Way to go Gabe looks wonderful and I am so glad to see you got the hang of correcting him so he wouldn't perch where you don't want him to...care to come over and teach Petey?? LOL...I am just so happy and pround of you and Valeri!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he has you trained....lol.... you just have to do what you have to do....he will not be scarred for life if you have to catch him..


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you all! This thread has been so very helpful to me! I had to be away from my computer for a bit and couldn't pull in the site on my mobile, hence the delayed reply and appreciation from my end.

Can I just say . . . patience is not my strongest virtue?  But maybe Chauncey is here to teach me that quality once and for all. Maybe it will take a pigeon to finally instill that in me! (My husband would be the happiest camper if that one lesson came from my relationship to Chauncey.)

I'll keep you all posted on how it continues to go. I had a pre-arranged business trip and opted to take Chauncey over to a lovely babysitter for a few days -- a very reliable and caring bird and animal person. I'm anxious to pick him up tomorrow and see how he fared, see if he even recognizes me! After this, there shouldn't be too many blips on his continuum. We want to give him a good home and lots of consistency.

More to come, I'm sure! Thanks for the reassurances.

ADDED: Picked him up, and if I'm reading pigeon signals correctly, Chauncey is happy to be back. He's been cooing non-stop, preening in his cage, playing around on his brick perches. We're going out after work to pick up some more "furniture" for his cage/home.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Glad he handled the separation without too much stress. Bet he's glad to be home!


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

*Creating Positive Cage Associations?*

We're doing a bit better with Chauncey now -- avoiding handling for a while (unless absolutely necessary) until he gets more used to us.

When we let him out of his cage now, he's more comfortable returning to the cage to eat and drink. He doesn't avoid it as he did before -- even if he keeps a close eye on us to see if we're reaching for that cage door.

Any ideas on how we can continue to encourage this behavior without creating negative associations and fear about that cage door closing? Will he eventually come to realize that the cage door will, in fact, continue to open each day and then get used to the routine of in/out time?

Right now, he doesn't know which trip to the food dish will result in the cage door closing, so he does have a bit of trepidation. He tries to stay close to the edges of the cage, or picks at seeds he's tossed outside the cage. 

We thought of putting the food in there JUST at the time the door will close, but figured he wouldn't show for that. And I'm rusty on pigeon behavior modification.

Our work schedules aren't always regular but we are letting him out everyday during those hours when we are home.

He's clever, though. If I slip out of the room to use the bathroom or kitchen, THAT's when he descends to his cage to eat and drink. Funny guy.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

valeri said:


> ...Will he eventually come to realize that the cage door will, in fact, continue to open each day and then get used to the routine of in/out time?...


The short answer is yes. Pigeons are clever and like routines - it's comforting being able to anticipate what happens next. You might use a treat seed he likes (safflower, peanuts, sunflower seeds) to gradually teach him to go into the cage on cue. Clicker training works very well for successive approximation. If the closing door always means a tasty snack appears, that becomes part of his normal routine. Whether or not the door reopens right away is a separate activity.


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## SPedigrees (Oct 27, 2004)

I do what the pigeon keepers do who let their birds out to fly. They train their birds to come back to the loft at the sound of a rattling grain can.

I *never* feed Hedwig during the day until late afternoon or evening. Then I put enough food in her cage that it lasts her until the following morning, and whatever is leftover is definitely gone by afternoon. Then when she sees me filling her grain dish, and the grit cup if it needs refilling, and clipping a couple leaves of tasty romaine lettuce leaves to the inside of her cage, she comes flying and goes right inside to eat dinner. Then I simply close the door to her cage. I've never had to "manhandle" her to pop her back into her cage, but instead employ the "quickest way to a pigeon's (or any other creature's) heart:" the irresistable lure of food. Food is a far stronger persuasion than the concept of home or familiarity.

I suggest establishing a similar routine with Chauncey. It will make your lives easier for sure. It will take a few days or maybe weeks for him to catch on to the routine, but he'll get it.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you! We did figure this out, finally! We give Chauncey breakfast, then let him out of the cage. If he's going to be out all day while we work in our office, he gets a midday "snack." But if it's just for a few hours, he doesn't get anything and he'll actually now fly to the sound of his food dish. It worked! Thanks for reinforcing this particular routine. I'm sure there will be times he gets stubborn again, but it's so much better than trying to chase the guy down and freaking out that he might fly into something.


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## SPedigrees (Oct 27, 2004)

I'm glad to hear it is helping. I'd keep the breakfast and midday snacks down to a minimum to be sure he's hungry when dinner time comes, if he starts to baulk at going back into the cage again.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks for all of the kind help in this forum! The "midday snack" arose because he kept coming up to me and looking everywhere for food. I felt bad, sucker that I am. I only give him food in the cage -- or from my hand, but he's not brave enough to eat from my hand yet. So his only option is to eat in the cage. He seems to understand the tradeoff now and is just so hungry, he puts up with the cage closing. If he even sees me in the cage mucking about, he'll fly down, hoping it's food. So glad he's getting into somewhat of a routine. I reward him with what I've discovered is his favorite: flax seeds. He didn't response to any of the other seeds or grains I tried as reward. So now flax seeds are reward-only treats.


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