# Feisty Pigeon, 5/27/99 - 10/16/05



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

The reason we can't feel the usual joy/sadness with the release of our "temporaries" is that we lost our beloved Feisty this morning. 

Last Monday, my husband brought him in because he was staying on the ground and was easy to catch. We just wanted to observe him. That night we decided to give him Bactrim and Nystatin just to be on the safe side. We brought his mate Katie in to keep him company and put them in the dining room away from Rachel, Raymond and Mr. Humphries. He was never puffed out, ate really well, lost only 4 grams, pooped well, although when we first brought him in it was a little watery. Even last night he fussed with us and did his usual stomping around. Absolutely nothing to raise flags that he would die. This morning, I took his food and water dish out of the cage to clean and he was in his bed with Katie beside him. My husband picked them both up to hold them over the trash can (yall know why) while I changed the cage and he called to me that Feisty was dying. We both held him and then at the end put him back in with Katie so she would know.

We decided to have a necropsy done as soon as the lab opens tomorrow. I have already called them and left a message. As bad as we both feel about losing him, I just have to know why. He was one of our 23 "keepers", and I just hope and pray it wasn't something that will take them all out.

Katie is still in the dining room, crying every now and then, right along with both of us. We decided to go ahead with the release of the "temporaries" because they were in a separate aviary and they all were healthy appearing.

Feisty was what we called a gentleman. He was a good father to the two babies he and Frosty had several years ago and while all of them were special, he was extra, extra special. Still small but when I was preparing him to put in a bag, noticed he was so beautiful - no mussed feathers, or anything.. I am so so sad. Neither of us can stop crying this morning.

Feisty was the picture I submitted for the contest this summer but here is another one when he was still a fledgling with his tail missing. He is in the background next to the cabinets. There were about 7 or 8 in front of him.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Maggie,

So sorry to hear about your beloved Feisty. He was well loved and cared for and the tenderness and sensitivity that you both showed Feisty and his mate
Katie is very touching. I hope the necropsy will give you both peace of mind.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

How terribly sad Maggie! He was a beautiful pigeon and you gave him a good life.

Cynthia


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## Snow White (Jul 27, 2005)

*Fiesty*

I am sorry for your loss. I'm sure he will be watching over all of you. God Bless.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

My condolences, Maggie.

It is hard to lose a much loved pidge 

John


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Maggie,

 I'm so sorry you lost your beloved "Feisty" this morning. I know this doesn't mean much, but you and your husband gave this pigeon a wonderful life, which henever would have had if it wasn't for your love and kindness and supportive care.

I'm getting good at these lately, (sad to say so). .... I'm sending you ......

a BIG GROUP HUG FROM ALL OF US HEREat pigeon talk.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you, especially today, and always!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ohhh Maggie .. I'm so sorry for the loss of your beloved Feisty. What a terribly sad week this has been for pigeons in many places.

Terry


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Maggie,

There have been too many loved ones lost this past week. My heartfelt sadness goes out to you and yours as well.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Maggie, 

I'm so sorry for your loss of Feisty It's just one of these weeks/months in here is seems and it's really heartbreaking for our members

Please take comfort in the fact that Feisty had a good life with you, your husband and Katie.

I'm glad as well you have decided to have a necropsy done. This could be of utter importance so that if it's something serious, you can prevent any other deaths.

Take care and hugs,


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I'm glad as well you have decided to have a necropsy done. This could be of utter importance so that if it's something serious, you can prevent any other deaths.



I agree. It must, however, have been adifficult decision to make and I admire you for your strength in doing what was prudent and necessary.

Cynthia


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

I am so sorry! That brought tears to my eyes, and I never thought I would feel that way about a Pidgy till I got my baby!


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm so very sorry to hear you lost you beloved Feisty. I wish there is more I could say but there are no words that will heal the wounds that only time can. He will be in our prayers tonight!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Maggie,

I'm so sorry for your heartbreaking loss.

Linda


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry, Maggie. It is so heartbreaking to lose a beloved pet.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, Maggie, it's so tough sometimes especially when you didn't see it coming. I understand all too well.

Pidgey


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Maggie, this must be truely heartbreaking for you. I'm so sorry that you all are experiencing this sudden loss. Feisty was such a special bird and really touched your hearts.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Oh no, not another one died here on this forum. I always hate to hear of them dying but I have to believe they're up there somewhere flying free and easy.

It's hard when you're attached to someone you love.

My condolencences.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Maggie,
I am so sorry you lost Feisty. You provided a loving home, & were there for him during his last moments. 
It's so very hard to lose our beloved pets.
God bless you & your husband.

Phyll


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*I'm so sorry to hear*

about the death of your beloved Feisty!

Words are rarely adequate but my thoughts are with you...

Do let us know what the necropsy showed.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

My heart goes out to you, too. I can't even imagine how it must feel - I know I'd be completely devastated if something happened to one of our precious fellows. Thank you for giving him such a good life with you.

So much loss here recently. Makes me so sad. I'll be interested to know the necropsy results, too.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the wonderful words. You just can't know what they mean to me. Today is better, but can't keep from talking about him.

We took him to the lab about midmorning and left him. I wanted to post the experience while it is still fresh in my mind. This lab is our state lab so they do an enormous amount of work. I had called my vet this am to let her know about Feisty and that we were taking him to the lab. She was off but the other vet said the lab would send them a copy of the report and the cost would be about $25.00. I then called the lab again (had called & left message Sunday but never got a CB) and they said just bring him in and the charge would be $30.00.

From the moment I set foot in the door I felt comforted. Feisty was treated as if he were a pedigreed animal. The receptionist took all the info and was so very kind. She called a vet to the recep. area and he sat down with me and took down all of Feisty's history from the time we picked him up until he died. It was like talking to a friend. I didn't cry, but honestly I was so touched by everyone I came in contact with. The necropsy won't be done until after 5:00 pm when another vet comes to work. Apparently, someone is there 24/7. They said she will probably call tonight with preliminary results.
I'll let everyone know.

The cost wound up being $5.00 because they've undergone a new pricing schedule and class pigeons as fowl. The only part I didn't care for was they refer to it as fowl for food. 

If you ever have to take one of your birds for necropsy, place them in a plastic bag (we used 2 with the outer one being a bag you couldn't see through) and place them in the refrigerator - never ever in the freezer. Some instructions say to wet the bird thoroughly before putting it in the bag but the vet told me for something as small as a pigeon that it was ok not to. He said that it takes awhile for the body to cool and wetting it with cold water helps speed up the cooling process. I told him I just couldn't do it. He said it was really necessary for something larger like a cat, dog, or even a large bird. You will then need to get the bird to the lab ASAP.

maggie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Maggie,

I appreciate you sharing the information on getting a necropsy done. It is something all of us may need to do at one point or another with our pigeons that pass on. I'm sure this has all been very hard on you and your husband, but I just want to thank you for taking the time to give us this valuable information, especially during your time of sorrow.

I think at one point we should have a sticky on the very steps to take when having this proceedure done, or do different labs have different requirements in different states?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I honestly don't know. I would imagine each state has their own policies and procedures but I think the care of the body would be basically the same. I think I'll ask my vet.

maggie


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Maggie,

More veterinarians are becoming informed about bereavement support when a client's pet dies. Your comments about how the techs at the vet's office reminded me of my experience and how comforting it was that they treated Piper with dignity when I brought his body in. In this area, we benefit from the improvements brought about by the more common canine and feline pets.

My vet also suggested chilling the body in the refrigerator if my appointment hadn't been right away.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

*Preliminary Pathology Report*

The pathologist called arouond 10 pm last night. Her visual report was tiny white spots on the liver and unusual firmness and swelling of the lungs. She said that she feels it is an infection but will not know the true cause until tissue samples are studied and cultures grow.

The tissue samples will be finished by Wednesday pm and the cultures should be finished by Thursday pm.

She said not to do anything about treating the other birds until they come up with a diagnosis so we would know the correct medicine to give them. She also said to keep Katie in the house unless she becomes stressed. She said the others may not be in any danger because what made Feisty sick may have been unique for him.

Any ideas or thoughts on this?

maggie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Maggie, 

Thanks for posting the first results from the necropsy. You were very strong and did the right thing by having this done. 

I am sorry I have no suggestions to offer as it seems like the liver is so often affected in pigeons when there is problem.

Please do keep us posted on any further results and I think your vet sounds very knowledgeable, prudent and in general....good.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

*Necropsy Results on Feisty Pigeon*

Well, we got the report this am - 

I couldn't talk to the pathologist because she doesn't come in until 6 pm so got the info from a lady who read it off the computer. They sent the main report to our vet who is off today but another vet will call me later today to explain what all this means.

"CHRONIC NEPHROSIS WITH MINERALIZATION LEADING TO PULMONARY MINERALIZATION. HEPATIC NECROSIS. BIRD HAD CHRONIC RENAL DISEASE. CAN RESULT IN ABNORMALITY IN THE CALCIUM BALANCE IN THE BLOOD. BIRDS WITH CHRONIC RENAL DISEASE CAN DEVELOP ABNORMAL MINERALIZATION OF TISSUE AS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE."

I am not smart enough to understand much of this. I've "googled" a bunch of the words and know that it concerns the kidneys and calcium levels but the chronic renal disease is a mystery. 

I got so worried yesterday afternoon about the report and what we might need to do to treat the rest of our babies, particularly Katie, that I talked with our vet who said we could give Katie Baytril. She preferred to wait until the report came in but said go ahead and dose her. I didn't have the correct dosage amount for a 423 gram bird so had to call back for that.

My husband went to get Katie out of her cage and came back to me and said she had just laid an egg. I was still on the phone with the vet and she burst out laughing when I told her. We decided to wait on giving the Baytril until today.

Do any of you think the egg could be viable? Feisty died Sunday morning and I had seen no evidence of mating while they were in the house. I thought that usually they laid eggs within a day or so of mating. While we don't see how it could be viable, there is a feeling of hope that it may be and we could have another little Feisty and, by golly, we'll let her sit the egg anyhow. If she lays another we're going to put it under Ginger and Cappy who want a baby worse than anything.

I'll keep you posted.

maggie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Maggie, 

That is a cryptic report full of medical jargon indeed. The pulmonary term has to do with the heart though. Mineralization sounds like a hardening of certain organs and tissues. At least you know now that it's not some dreadful disease or something that is contagious that might infect your other birds.

Pigeons normally lay eggs about 7-10 days after mating occurs so this egg could very well be viable. 

It will be better to hear the layman's report later on....keep us posted.

Thanks Maggie for your courage in doing this.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Maggie,
I sure hope you end up with another egg and both are fertile, hatch out two little feisty babies for you. Keep us updated, please.
Daryl


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Brad, thanks. Honestly, we were almost giddy last night, hoping that the egg is viable. Wouldn't that be a miracle and just about the best thing ever!

maggie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Maggie, 

Yes, it would be something miraculous. I'm hopeful that the egg will be fertile and that Cappy and Ginger will hatch it out and successfully raise this little chick of beloved Feisty.

My fingers will be crossed for you


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*A gift*

from Feisty to you...

Waiting on pins and needles for more news...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm hoping the egg is fertile and that you will have a baby or two of your own ( actually of Katie and Feisty)! Would this be the first time you ever allowed your rehab babies to hatch an egg or two?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Maggie,

I will be crossing my fingers for a feisty hatchling!

Perhaps Reti could translate the report, but to me it sounds as if he had a long standing problem in the cloacal area (which could have been caused by a number of things) and that caused an accumulation of calcium which affected his liver causing parts to die off and caused his lungs to calcify/harden. Which, as far as I can see, means that once his illness became apparent there would have been nothing that you could do.

But I could be completely off course .

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, 

You're right and I was wrong about the term pulmonary, it has to do with the lungs. I always get that confused when talking about the heart and lungs because they are so intricately connected

Sorry Maggie for the misinformation that I gave you.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Brad, I have a dictionary next to me.... I have to since I misunderstood the word "topical" .

And, incidentally, what does MIA mean/ stand for?

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, 

Thanks for the understanding...I'm really not as simple minded as I sometimes seem. I'd be bothered if the other members thought I was blowing hot air, lol.

MIA stands for Missing in Action, I believe the term originated in the military but don't quote me on that


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Treesa, oddly enough, Feisty and one other couple are the only birds we have let set eggs, to the best I can recall. Before we got our aviaries, my rehabber friend would add our birds to hers and she would release all of them. Some of ours did lay eggs that hatched while they were with her and we wound up raising at least three of those.

Feisty never weighed more than 275 grams - just a little squirt but went for the big girls. His first mate, our big, beautiful Frosty (who we raised from a couple of hours old) had one baby about 5 years ago that we named Rosebud. She was just like her mother but had a few brown markings. So gorgeous. She was healthy and adored her mother. We took them with us to the beach for a couple of weeks and for some reason Rosebud got extremely stressed over the trip and became sick. I always took meds with me and treated her but she went steadily downhill. We brought her back home and went straight to the vet but she died while there. Even though she was in the cage right next to her mother and we let them all out to fly and socialize it was not the same as being in the aviary with Frosty. I think she became so stressed she came down with something dormant. 

About two years later we only had 3 birds to carry over - Frosty, Feisty and Me Three. Me3 had been so ill during the summer that we couldn't release him. The winter was cold so we put all three in the garage and Frosty and Feisty laid two more eggs. We took one away and let them set the other who turned out to be ****** who is also big and beautiful like Rosebud was.
She grew up in the cage with her mother and dad and when they decided to lay more eggs (which we took out and replaced) she would sit the eggs with her mother. That winter was one of the best in my birding career. The closeness of those three was really something to see. When Frosty had laid the first egg, Feisty and ****** were all but jumping up and down. During this time, Me3 was getting stronger and had a lustful eye on Frosty. After we moved them back to the aviary that spring, he won out and became Frosty's mate (and still is devoted to her). We have never let them hatch any eggs. ****** is still with them and still loves her mother as much as always.

We let another pair lay eggs (moment of weakness) and I don't even know who they were. We took away one of the eggs and gave the other one to Frosty to sit because we had to release the real parents. It sounds cruel in a way but the time was right and we had to release them with others to give them a chance to survive. Frosty set the egg, singlehandedly, with no help whatsoever from Me3 because he must have known it wasn't his. As a result our wonderful Onslow was hatched. For the first day, Frosty fed him and then on the second day we found him on the ground, covered up, with peck wounds on his head and neck. We don't know if Frosty did it or another pigeon. We brought him and raised him and he turned out to be one of the finest, sweetest little guys anyone would ever want to have. He is the mate of MY sweetheart, Simon. I go out to the aviary and here both of them come cooing and smooching. I just love it.

It is so hard to take away the eggs because you never know if you'll wind up with another beauty like ****** or a lover like Onslow, but it has to be done.

Didn't mean to write so much but I can get going about these boys and girls.

maggie


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Maggie,
What a wonderful story. Brought out a few tears and a few chuckles.
Daryl


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi again Maggie,

Sounds like you've had quite a few tragedies over the years with your birds, I'm sorry.  I'm glad that Frosty and Feisty were able to raise at least one happy offspring anyway, that is positive

I could tell you my own tale of a dying male bird, his mate and newly laid eggs but that story didn't end well At that time, I was so hopeful that my first runt would be the father of future offspring but it wasn't to be. Unfortunately, when that male bird died, his mate was disrupted from her duties for various reasons and ultimately abandoned her eggs/nest-even though the eggs were fertile. 

It's always so sad in all these circumstances but it's always healthy to have hope, dreams and encouragement that things will work out 

Yours and my situation are quite different; you being a rescuer of pigeons and me being an enthusiast and pet owner but the feelings tend to be the same in how we wish for successors, future generations of cherished special pigeons.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> It is so hard to take away the eggs because you never know if you'll wind up with another beauty like ****** or a lover like Onslow, but it has to be done.
> Didn't mean to write so much but I can get going about these boys and girls.
> 
> maggie


Oh, Maggie,

I'm sorry about the tragedies you have had, and please don't feel like you are going on and on....

I had a hard time myself taking eggs away from a single hen, who hatched her babies and abandoned them at 4 days. I hand raised these two special birds and know what a joy it is to have such loving dependent creatures, although they can bite the hand that feeds them. Skye is my light blue boy and Sonica the dark female. There is such a difference between the handraised and my domestic darlings, though I love them all equally.



Brad,

I'm sorry for the tragedy you endured with losing your male pigeon and then the two would be off-spring. It must have been such a heartache. We do have our tragedies and it is nice to share, though.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Running the risk of becoming b-o-r-i-n-g, I totally forgot Katie's role in this soap opera. Feisty was without a mate from about May 2001 until sometime in mid 2004. My husband looked out a window and saw a white pigeon in our garden. He set a trap (the kind with a box and string) and caught her. She was banded but the bands had only two numbers on them so we put her in the aviary and named her Katie. It was love at first sight between Feisty and Katie and they were together from then on until he died Sunday. She is the only pigeon we have ever seen in our yard. Makes you wonder.

maggie


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Just talked to the vet - she said the "anal" had to be "renal", so I corrected the word in the earlier post. Makes more sense now. In layman's words the kidneys don't regulate calcium and phosphorus and they build up in the body to the point they cause death. It was nothing that would harm the other birds.

She suggested putting Katie back in the aviary. We have already put her egg under Ginger and gave Katie a dummy. We will wait until she lays the second egg. She said to just watch her.

We can now put Rachel and Raymond in with the big boys and just close down the small aviary for the winter. Rachel is becoming a bully so some of the guys in the big aviary will take care of that (I guess).

maggie


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Maggie,

In an earlier post you said you wanted to give a bird Baytril, but in the excitement, you couldn't remember the proper dosage. Here's a trick that I posted in another thread.

For a 10mg per ml solution, take the weight of the bird and divide it by 66. The resulting number is then divided by 10. Give every 12 hrs.

For example, a 396g bird would be: 396/66 = 6. And 6 divided by 10 = 0.6. So you give 0.6cc twice per day.

If you use a 25mg per ml solution, divide by 165 instead of 66.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Maggie (LOVE title: Lady Tarheel)...*

Never think telling stories about you and your beloved birds is "rambling" or boring. After all, I thought that's what this pigeon site is for - a world wide family of pigeons and humans (occasionally other types of birds or animals thrown in to make things interesting!)  

What I found most fascinating was finding out that some of the humans were male or female when their site name indicated the opposite. Of course, I'm a good case in point because Mr. Squeaks is a male and I'm his human female mate.

Remember the show with the saying: "there are a million stories in the naked city...." Well, I haven't heard enough by a long shot! I am always amazed at how addicting this site has become!  

MORE! MORE! MORE!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

mr squeaks said:


> ...that's what this pigeon site is for...


Exactly!!! This is the only place I've found where people treat pigeons as thinking, feeling beings. When you share your stories, these experiences supply a background of information which helps me take better care of my birds. Besides, the stories are interesting and fun to read!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Just talked to the vet - she said the "anal" had to be "renal", so I corrected the word in the earlier post


I am glad that you let us know that! As I struggled to get to sleep last night I was puzzling about the "anal" bit, because I thought that everything emptied into the cloaca and was disposed of through the vent...I was just about to take a crash course in pigeon anatomy. I think that I need that anyway.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I really worry sometimes that I get carried away and "talk" too much, so thank you. I think I've mentioned we've rehabbed several hundred over the years and for the most part I remember most of them.

Mr. Squeaks, when I was trying to come up with my "handle", I couldn't think of anything that wasn't already taken. But, coming from the "Tarheel" state, and being a BIG-TIME fan of our UNC Tarheels basketball team, I chose "Tarheel" and added the "lady" because I'm a little old lady .

Numbernine, thanks for the info. It is really odd that Baytril is the only medicine I don't have a chart for that shows all the weights/dosages (except for a few).The day that Cynthia did her thread on the amounts to give her two little ones is the same day we were planning to dose Katie. I had to call a vet for the dosage. Another thing, the Baytril we use is the injectible kind and I read the instructions which say to inject the first dose with the liquid Baytril and then use tablets from then on. I thought, Woah, have I been doing this wrong so I asked the vet and she reassured me that we didn't have to switch to the tablets, just continue with giving it orally like we always have. I have had vets tell me that there are so many variations on Baytril that they even have trouble deciding the dose.

Cynthia, I'm glad the "anal" part was cleared up too. I asked the lady at the lab to spell most of the words and even mentioned that I couldn't understand why anal came into a kidney problem.

We put Rachel and Raymond in the "big boys" aviary this morning and of course they're scared and the others jumped on them but they'll get adjusted. The temp is supposed to be in the 40's tonight and this will be their first night out of the house so I probably won't be able to sleep worrying about them.

luv, maggie


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Maggie -*

I knew that N.C. is the "Tarheel" State and have always thought your "handle" was a good one! Has a nice "ring" to it... 

Hey, watch the "old" lady bit  ...I'm your age and fit the 'little' but not the 'old!' 

Mmm, maybe we could start a new thread about HOW and WHY people chose the "handles" they use. I see that Vdog changed to "Victor." Mr. Squeaks is my pigeon but my first name is Shi (pronounced 'shy'). I could become ShiBird  LOL Naw, I'll stay with Mr. Squeaks!

Am off the main subject, but just couldn't resist!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Shi - lets start one and include how everyone got started in the pij hobby.

I love your "Shi" name.

maggie


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Just wanted everyone to know the eggs were not fertile. Didn't think they would be but hoping they were. Ginger and Cappy sat on those eggs as faithful as if they belonged to them. Katie is back in the aviary and is doing fine although she looks lonely. Maybe when either Rachel, Raymond or Otis grow a little more she'll pick one of them.

Thanks again for everything.

Maggie


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry the eggs didn't hatch. I know how much the youngsters would have meant to you.

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sorry to hear the eggs didn't hatch.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So sad the eggs didn't hatch. That would have really been wonderful if they had. I'm glad that Katie will have her choice of mates (once they grow up a bit).


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