# advice on health gard,eco-tonic, and pigeon tea



## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

hello everyone. i have pigeon tea, eco-tonic and health gard which is a pro biotic. i know the general use of each. I have racing pigeons and was wondering if anyone can give any more information on how to apply them correctly to maximize them. Also so i am not doing them incorrectly. for instance daily routine, applying separately in the water or combining the eco-tonic and health gard together, and how often to apply the pigeon tea. i have two lofts if this helps. i have a young bird racing team and a breeders loft. Once again any advice given will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I would use the eco-tonic first by its self on Sunday and on Monday
put the health gard in the water by itself. On Tuesday you could use the tea and Tuesday or
Wednesday would be a good day for a Vitamin too.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Hello Eric,

thank you very much for your help. Even though your advice is simple it is the best i have gotten so far, so i really appreciate it. last question. is it good to follow this routine weekly, bi weekly, or how often should i give it?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I would start this now and keep them on the same program weekly, so they would get the eco-tonic to kill any bad bugs and keep their crop clean.

The health guard is a probiotic which fills the gut with good and normal bowel organisms, so its a must have for the birds after the eco-tonic or any antibiotic treatment.

The tea must have lots of good thing in it so that will be next (I have never used tea) but that would follow the other products in weekly program

I follow a similar program but with different products with the same aim to keep them healthy. 

When racing start on the day of return you could add Electroltes to the water so they recover faster then on Sunday would be a day of rest with clear water all day and maybe Sunday evening a oz of ACV in the water.

Monday start with the eco-tonic all day.
Tuesday the health guard all day.
Wed. the tea
Thursday clear water in the morning and some vitamins in the water at night after the evening meal.
Friday day of shipping clear water.

Monday would be a loft flying day 
Tuesday would be a road training day
Wed loft fly
Thur. if the race is under 400 then road train. if over 400 mile race this would be shipping day so no training. 
Friday day of shipping for less than 400 miles no training or loft flying
feed birds between 10am and 12 noon. 
Saturday clean the loft and look to the sky till you got a sore neck or your birds get home.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you very much eric. you have been more than helpful and i really appreciate your help. last question i have is about feed. i am currently feeding my pigeons once a day. i just wanted to see how you feed and what has given you the best response. keep in mind these young birds are barely loft flying as of right now. I just wanted to say thank you again. i am going to follow exactly your advice pertaining to the eco-tonic,health gard, and tea. thank you.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes I understand your birds are just starting out and I'm happy to help if I can. The schedule I wrote is just a guide for anyone to follow. I included it just so you can see why we do the supplments on certain days . Most health programs will tie into the racing calender week so you have very little to change from training to racing. 

As far as the feeding, I go with twice a day for a few reasons . First my breeders have babies and they need the feed moring and night and that gives each parent a fair chance at a balanced diet, I'm also useing my feed call for the breeders and their young to start learning as early as possible when they hear my call they get food. Now the other birds can also here the call and I want them to know it still means food is coming . I also find that the birds seam to have more energy and take their exercise better and I can loft fly the older ones morning and night . Like today I took my OBs down the road and when they got home they got 1/2 of their food. Now tonight I can do the same and when they go in they get their reward again. The last thing is that I like to change the water twice a day too, unless I've got something in it that I want them to get all day. Hope this helps.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

it really does help. i really appreciate it alot. lots of valuable information. i have two seperate lofts. one for breeders and one for my YB team. my breeders are prisoners as of right now since all were purchased to breed. once i find out what kind of pigeons i will get from those i will start flying out of that loft, but as of right now i am not flying from it. i think i am going to apply your feeding schedule to that loft because eventually it seems like that might be my old bird loft. 

the reason i feed my young birds once a day is due to the fact it has got them to trap awsome. they trap as soon as i call them in. another reason i feed them once a day is, i was just recently feeding twice a day and they didnt trap as well. and they left the loft for quite some time, and i lost 4 birds. two ended up coming back, 1 was attacked by a hawk. right now i have him isolated to heal his wounds. i know hawks are a part of racing, but im trying avoid them a little by having my birds trap well when YB's. so far good results. 

Eric, i really appreciate your help alot and i was wondering if we can exchange email addresses if you wouldnt mind. so we can keep in touch and i can utilize the information you have. if not, its ok i totally understand and will continue to post through here. thank you.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes feeding once a day will help trap train any bird. It may be of use to you if they get out of control to go back to the once a day feeding or just skip one meal to get them hungry again. My birds do get a bit stubborn at times if I over feed or the weather changes and they have too much to eat on any certain day. You are learning the most important things right now and that is to watch the birds and they will tell you thing you never thought of before. I will exchange e-mails with you just as long as you understand that I don't pretend to know it all and will give you the best information I have at the time and if I can't answer your question I will seek someone that might help. When I first started I was given birds to breed from and some to race just to help a small club and spent many day waiting for my birds to come home. Many never made it. I know how frustrating that can be so I would like to help anyone to get past that time as fast as possible so they can truely enjoy the sport of pigeon racing . I'll get back to you soon.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

thank you eric, very much. the main reason i asked to exchange email addresses with you was more about your willingness to offer information than anything.

i know one person doesnt have all the information, especially with pigeons. there's a million different ways to do things. but there is also ways to do things right. some of the information you have given me matches what i have learned from my pigeons. so there is a common ground there. as you can imagine its pretty exciting. i just got in some baby birds i ordered. 1 clousing houben, 2 HVR'S, and two scion birds from new york. my breeders are all jansens along with one pair of black diamond pigeons. i was given a handful of young birds from a club member and his nephew that are my YB team as of right now. i dont know the pedigree of most of these birds but they are great racing birds. big, lots of personality and a good drive so far. i know i have a couple of lean bores out of those young birds. very exciting. my email is [email protected]


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

soundmajorr said:


> hello everyone. i have pigeon tea, eco-tonic and health gard which is a pro biotic. i know the general use of each. I have racing pigeons and was wondering if anyone can give any more information on how to apply them correctly to maximize them. Also so i am not doing them incorrectly. for instance daily routine, applying separately in the water or combining the eco-tonic and health gard together, and how often to apply the pigeon tea. i have two lofts if this helps. i have a young bird racing team and a breeders loft. Once again any advice given will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


Eric provided you with a reasonable program. The real $48 question, is what, if any, value is there in providing those materials to your pigeons ? There is advertising, and testimonials, but as far as I know, there is little if any real medical evidence that many of the products sold are needed to insure excellent health. I do believe there is psychological value to the owner of pigeons to provide these additional supplements. Something to think about as you discover more of the hundreds of products available.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

If you get the (RPD),Racing Pigeon Digest,you will read excellent advice on ALL the stuff that is on the market....As Warren said above,do we really know if any or all of this stuff out there does any good...It probally does no harm,but for all the $$$$ you will be spending on them,it might be a waste of money...In the words of many an expert...."It`s VG pigeons,healthy pigeons,pigeons trained and fed CORRECTLY,that will make the owner happy",on race day....There are many,if not almost everyone who innoculates their birds for PMV etc...Then there was Art Hees,one of the best in the USA,who didn`t innoculate his birds,and beat everyone on race day....Short races or long distance races...Made no difference....It was his loft management system,and GREAT PIGEONS....Not medicine,or all the stuff for sale in the magazines.....Alamo


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

found it ...


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

O K Alamo, I just watched a video on U tube with your guy ART Hees. He explaine how he raises his YBs on the Deep Litter system with no vaccanations,same with the breeders. To tell you the truth I raise my YBs the same way, butI do vaccanat for PMV, Art then goes on to say that you can not fly pigeon anywhere without giving meds. of some kind , in this day in age. I can't post the link becasue it's broken. All you have to do is type in Art Hees deep litter and the link will pop up .The products that are talked about in this post are good stuff, and the health guard is a probiotic. The other is a natural orgainic acid product and its no different than anyone useing ACV in their health program , its just a bit stronger. A small investment of about $50 to protect someone's other investment " your pigeons" is a small price to pay.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

ERIK K......Mr Hee`s was a BIG beleiver of using as many NATURAL products as possible.....Garlic,vinegar,onions,lettuce etc etc etc....I have been using the deep liter system for my YB`s for many years....Have never innoculated any of my birds...Have no birds dying from PMV,or any other virus etc....Only to old age....I respected Art for all that he accomplished with his pigeons....But,I still give NO Meds UNLESS I think there is a problem...I beleive the biggest drawback when it comes to breeding YB`s is,if you breed way more then you really need,and your loft is OVERCROUDED,you better have PLENTY of Med`s available to use....If i see a dropoff of flying/racing,I will check a few birds,to see if it`s a weight problem,or if a respiratory infection is involved,or canker....Worms,I don`t worry about because my YB`s are NOT allowed on the ground at any time...Their feet never touch the ground untill they are on my OB race team...Alamo

PS:The IRPC combine that I can fly with,has a great health safety racing rule...Your yb`s are NOT mixed in with other lofts birds,except for the Auction Races...Each loft has his own crate...So if your pigeons are healthy,they should stay that way...They will not pick up germs from the water,that sick pigeons are putting in there...If your birds are sick,they will not give it to other pigeons,whatever they might have.....


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