# Hand feeding gone wrong?



## swagger (Aug 16, 2010)

I found this little one in the backyard on Friday evening. He somehow managed to survive a fall off a two story roof where his parents nest, and I've been hand feeding him since. I have experience hand feeding larger birds (parrots), but this is the first time I've worked with anything this young, or with anything other than parrots. I'm a total pigeon novice, but not unfamiliar with birds in general.

He's been pretty active and adventurous except right after a feeding, when he mellows out and sleeps. I think that after his feeding this morning, though, I might have gotten some formula down his esophagus. I realized that might have happened right away, and stopped the feeding. He's been bobbing his head a bit, staying quiet (he usually peeps quite a lot) and it seems that his breathing is a bit labored. I've also noticed a bit of formula in his beak (visible in the video), that I'm thinking he might have expelled from his lungs.

What is the proper course of action for this scenario? In my previous experiences with hand feeding, the birds were all older and larger, and knew how to eat from a syringe, so I've never run into this.

Video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xegpxz_baby-pigeon_animals

Thanks for any help you can offer! I really want this little guy to grow up!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

can you post how much your feeding him, it looks like his crop got filled too much and now is stretched out. Are you letting the crop empty before feeding again.. as far as the aspiration goes, I would say get him to a vet to see if they can help to clear his lungs and see if they may advise on any anitbiotic just in case he gets an infection in the lungs. Iam assuming you are feeding him like a squab and not a parrot..just making sure..


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## swagger (Aug 16, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> can you post how much your feeding him, it looks like his crop got filled too much and now is stretched out.


That's just the angle he's holding his head (back and to the right). When reviewing the video before uploading it, I thought the same thing so I checked, even though I'd cut the feeding short, and he's actually not got much in there at all right now.


spirit wings said:


> Are you letting the crop empty before feeding again..


Yep, making sure of that.


spirit wings said:


> as far as the aspiration goes, I would say get him to a vet to see if they can help to clear his lungs and see if they may advise on any anitbiotic just in case he gets an infection in the lungs. Iam assuming you are feeding him like a squab and not a parrot..just making sure..


I'm going to call the vet in just a moment, as I'm pretty sure at this point that he got some food down the wrong tube.

Can you clarify what you mean by "feeding him like a squab and not a parrot"? I want to make sure I understand what you're asking.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

swagger said:


> That's just the angle he's holding his head (back and to the right). When reviewing the video before uploading it, I thought the same thing so I checked, even though I'd cut the feeding short, and he's actually not got much in there at all right now.
> 
> Yep, making sure of that.
> 
> ...


the squab eats from inside the mouth by sucking it or slurping it down not an open mouth and food put in...unless one has to force feed... how many cc's are you giving at one time.. the crop looked not real full but like it may have had too much at one time.


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## swagger (Aug 16, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> the squab eats from inside the mouth by sucking it or slurping it down not an open mouth and food put in...unless one has to force feed... how many cc's are you giving at one time.. the crop looked not real full but like it may have had too much at one time.


I've been syringe feeding him and its been going ok until this morning. I found that if I let him put his beak between two of my fingers, he opens his beak right up, letting the syringe right in. I'm giving him about 2-3 ccs of a watery solution of exact 3-4 times per day. I'm open to suggestions for schedules and techniques, I want him to grow big, fast and strong!

I'm at the vet right now, waiting in the exam room for the doctor. I'll keep you posted!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Swagger, thanks for helping this little guy out and getting him right to the vet when you realized there was a problem. Here are a couple of links to get you started:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=488627&postcount=4
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=475500&postcount=26

Please keep us updated on how things go at the vets.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Swagger,



I think you mean he may have got some formula into his Trachea, his 'Wind Pipe'.

The Esophagus is where Food and Water are supposed to go...the Esophagus conducts to the Crop, the Crop to the Stomach...the esophagus terminates in or as his Throat, seen in the rear of his Mouth.


His Trachea, or Wind Pipe, terminates in an opening which is to be seen mid way in the bottom of his Mouth, behind the base of the Toungue.


Babys can sometimes suffer a mild misadventure of aspirating foods or liquids, getting some formula or Water into their Trachea, and, over the course of a day or two, it can clear out, and all is well...and no problems.


It all depends on how much went in there, and, how far down it went.

If more went in than their Body/Tracheal self-clensing can expell at liesure over a day or two, there can be a pnuemonia, usually of several kinds, from differing categories of micro-organisms brought in with the food, or, opportuning on it from being carried in on the ambiant Air the breathes.


The latter is usually a fatal condition, though some methods of treatment can be successful.


The problem with trying to use a Syringe only, dribbling formula into their Mouth, is that they have no way to instinctively co-ordinate the rythum of intake-volume and swallowing, their reflexes are not attuned to manage that condition well, as they would when feeding volentarily form their parent's Throat, or, from a substitute of that, which in various ways, we can devise and offer.


At this age also, they need to be kept at around 103 degrees or so, since they do not produce their own Body Heat yet.

Feeding a 'chilled' Baby can cause problems or fatality if the problems it causes are not identified and corrected in a timely way, and if correct Warmth is not provided from then on, till no longer needed.


Have you been keeping him Warm?



More details later.

For now, cease feeding for a little while, and lets see how things go.


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Good Method for keeping a Baby warm, and, for providing a Nest he or she can recognise and be happy with -


Clear off a Table or some of a Table.

Lay a Towel over it.

Set a cardboard Box on it's side, ( Box needs to have one side which is about 12 inches by 14 or even a little larger ) flaps intact and opened up somewhat...onto the Towel, set back a ways, so it is like the Box is a House, and the extra Towel area in front of it, is the front Lawn.

Electric Heating pad, in the Box 'bottom'...layed flat.

Small Hand towel covering the Heating Pad...

Cake Pan or small Cardboard Box cut down into a Tray with one or one and a half inch tall sides.

Soft rumpled cloth in the 'Tray' or Cake Pan.

Have the Heating Pad on for 20 or 30 minutes, and, press the underside of your naked wrist into the 'Nest' ( ie, into the soft rumpled cloth which is inside the Tray or Cake Pan).

You want the temperature 'there' to be only very slightly above that of your own body temperature.


Adjust Heating pad setting, and or add or remove a layer of Toweling which is between the heating Pad and the actual 'Nest' Tray or Pan itself, to arrive at a correct temperature IN the 'nest'.

Always allow 20 minutes for a new setting to stabalize for it to be tested.



Baby goes into the Nest, and will be happy to find he can understand it's perimiters, so he he feels safe and protected, and, he knows where to poop.

Baby will poop over the side of the Nest.


Box Flaps -

Bottom flap lays flat on the Topel on the Table top.

Side Flaps are brought in at a slight angle...top Flap rests on those.


A light sheer cloth as then draped over the front, with a small space left open below.


Baby will stay in the Nest, just as he would in Nature.


Nest may be gently brought out onto the 'Lawn' for feed and water times.

As the Baby develops and becomes ambulatory, he can be called, and will come trotting out for feed and water times, and, he will go back in on his own, once these are concluded.

Easy, safe, effecient, and a happy arrangement for the Baby to understand and accept, and well suited to his endemic propensities of Natural History.


Once Baby is unambiguously endothermic ( if held in the Palm of your Hand for a little while, he will feel like a little 'Furnace' ), the Heating Pad can be turned "off".



Phil
Lv


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## swagger (Aug 16, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> I think you mean he may have got some formula into his Trachea, his 'Wind Pipe'.


Yes, exactly. I was 1/2 panicked and only 3/4 awake when I wrote that this morning. 



pdpbison said:


> At this age also, they need to be kept at around 103 degrees or so, since they do not produce their own Body Heat yet.


That's pretty much exactly the temperature of our garage this time of year (I'm in Las Vegas), so that shouldn't be any problem. I was going to move him out there anyway, on the advice of the vet. I also have a parrot, and he strongly suggested not letting the two share the same air space, due to the risk of the pigeon introducing "some pretty nasty diseases" to my beloved African Gray.

On the vet visit, the little bird (naturally) started perking up and began squeaking just a minute or two before the doctor came into the exam room, so he's doing much better than before. He probably did get some formula down the wrong tube, but he seems to be dealing with it alright. I have some antibiotics that I'll be giving him with his food for a while. He did also say that the little guy's a bit dehydrated, so I'll be keeping an eye on that, as well.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I'll be setting up a new "nest" for him this afternoon/evening, using the suggestions provided here, and I'll keep you all updated on his progress.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Very good..!


I am so glad he seems to be shaking off his mis-adventure aspiration event.


Very close call...


What is the Antibiotic the Vet provided or prescribed?




Here are a couple links to albums showing images ( with captions ) on how I feed them -


I am downtown Las Vegas, if you felt like it, stop by with the little Tyke, and I can demonstrate with him for you in person, and give you some tips on preparing the Formula, so you can see easily how it is done.


Anyway, s'mimages -


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU


This is a very safe and easy way for them to eat...slightly pinching the Nip Ple in it's upper area re-creates the tactile feeling of the Parent's Throat against the root area of their Beak...it allows small whole seeds to be included in the formula once the Baby is old enough, it allows plain Water to be offered between Meals, and, relatively speaking, it is not especially messy.


I will PM you my 'phone numerals...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway, Garage might even be too Hot!

Lol...


103-ish is about perfect...but this of course means that the Baby is about that temp, whatever his surrounds may be.

Garages can get much hotter of course, which would not be so good...but, granted, Nests in the wild, in ambient heats of the clime here, must get way up there, so...


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## swagger (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I wanted to let you know that after three weeks of growing, peeping a lot and capturing our hearts, the baby (affectionately known as Mr Peepers) died last night. 

He was acting listless all day and wasn't interested in eating, which isn't a good sign, as you all know. We took him to the vet in the afternoon, who said that he looked fine, and suggested that it might be a parasite. Having been around a lot of different types of birds in my life (just never pigeons), I knew there was more to it than that, and during his evening feeding, he only took about 3cc before backing away while regurgitating it and within seconds he passed.

We're pretty torn up over it. It's amazing how attached you can get in such a short time.

I want to thank you all for your advice, and special thanks to pdpbison for offering to let us come by. I was going to give you a call today for some advice, as we were going to build or buy an outdoor cage/roost for him this weekend.

Thanks again everyone.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi swagger,



Ohhhhhhhhh, golly.

I am sorry.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

It sure hurts when you lose a little one who's captured your heart they way they do. I am so sorry.
Daryl


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

I'm so sorry about your loss. It sure hurts when you try so hard.


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