# Ol' One Beak & Scissors



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, this will be the ongoing story of Ol' One Beak & Scissors, the two hurt birds that Moxie sent to me. These guys suffered terrible beak injuries from canker, pox or something else that we don't know or understand fully. They have both healed from their initial beak problems but have been left with the disfigurements that their original infections caused.

One of the original threads for Ol' One Beak:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21920

...and some of Ol' One Beak's pictures:



And one of the orginal threads for Scissors:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=22471

...and, I think, some pictures of Scissors early on:



They're currently downstairs in a roomy cage together. I gave them a deep water and they both use it frequently. I also gave them a deep dish of regular seeds and Ol' One Beak has been working it over quite a bit. It may even be possible for him to learn to eat that way, we'll just have to see. I've already started on an early-version upper beak for him to see how it goes. His face has healed up quite a bit, really, and it looks like it might be easier than I originally thought to deal with.

Pidgey


----------



## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Raina, you're awesome. They're many people and animals thankful for you. And it's not just what you do to help pigeons-- it's YOU. It's your heart and love and compassion.

Pidgey, be careful and don't spoil them... too much.  

Licha


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I do hope that Ol' One Beak and Scissors will do well, Pidgey...they are certainly in the right place for help!

Squeaks and I send our best with all the HUGS and SCRTCHES they can handle!

With Love,

Shi & Squeaks


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad they arrived safely to you, Pidgey. Thank you for helping them out in this next "journey" in their lives. I know they have their best chance for the "bestest" recovery ever in your care.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm glad you have these two, Pidgey. Good luck in the continued rehab efforts with them. I know that Moxie did a terrific job with them and that you will continue on from there.

Terry


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Great job, Raina and Pidgey. I'm so glad they arrived in Tulsa safely.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They seem to be doing fine although Scissors is tough to feed. Ol' One Beak's getting pretty used to the drill. They're smaller birds (Scissors is 285 grams) and small-framed, which often means that they're more excitable. I'd given them some water early on and I think they went wild drinking it but they've slowed down now. They were putting out a lot of urine and that's tapering off to more normal so that worry's over.

I'll try to get some pictures this weekend sometime.

Pidgey


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Pidgey. I'm glad the two are doing well and will look forward to pictures when you can. Moxie's racing pigeon is all settled in here and also doing well.

Terry


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I am soooooo glad they are doing ok! i have been worried SICK about them and the racer.


----------



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> I'm glad the two are doing well and will look forward to pictures when you can.


Same here, tough little guys you got there.


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Pidgey, thanks again for taking these little ones in, and they sure are little ones. 
I dont know what I would of dont if you didnt take them, and I cannot think of a more fitting home for them either. 
When you talk about the breathing, i thought you meant one beak, that pink nub where her top beak used to be, it seems in time it has "settled" a bit and sometimes i worry it obstucts her breathing. I know when i had the tape on to cover her toungue, i would have to be VERY careful it didnt sit tightly against that nub or it WOULD obstruct her breathing.
You know, scissor beak used to be able to eat seed, and i thought he couldnt anymore, even though i always left seed out for them. I know last summer they went to the cape with me a few times, and i would just tube feed, thats it, when i brought them back and put seed in front of them, they would both go crazy, although it seems Ol' One Beak was doing it more to mimic scissors then anything.
Oh, one more thing. I wormed them about, oh, 3 weeks ago was the second dose. In all the excitement i forgot about that. When they seemed to get a bit thinner, i tried worming, then a few weeks later i tried the zupreem. It could of been killing the worms that helped weight gain, the zupreem pellets, OR BOTH! Who knows, whatver it is, it did work. I seem to remember her being down to 260 grams a few months back, would have to check. He was a bit bigger, i forget what, but they did both gain...
Did you get the pellets i sent yet?
Thanks again SOOOOO much Pidgey, and thanks for the beautiful reply you posted in my other thread after the 2 died. It did make me feel better, along with everyone elses thread, it was so sweet.

Thanks again. you're a real hero Pidgey!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, Ol' One Beak and Scissors have graduated to the full blown Nuisance level. They let you know that they want out of their quarantine cage and then they fly all over the place looking around. As most small ferals seem to be, they are very quick and excitable. It's no easy task to herd them back to their cage when playtime's over. If you can get one in though, the other will usually fly over and get in fairly quickly although they both can manage some pretty pitiful "how can you DO this to us!?!" looks. Of course, they've both got a definite edge on looking pitiful anyhow, what with their disfigurements and all.

In any case, they're doing well and thriving just fine. I've run a few tests and there doesn't seem to be any reason why I can't take them out to the loft for some real playtime soon. I can't leave them out there, obviously, but I think they'd get a kick out of being out of a few hours at a time.

It is pretty funny that you can't reach in to their cage without suffering some serious wing-whacking, even when they're starving and want you to pick 'em up and feed them. Ol' One Beak gives at least two whacks and then just about walks into your hand so you'll hurry up and feed her. Maybe that's what the whacks are for--you should have been there to feed her much sooner!

Anyhow, they're both certainly used to people and think evasion is a wonderful game when it's time to go back to the cage. They seem to be in great health and they're slowing gaining weight.

Pidgey


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the good news update, Pidgey! I'm glad your two little charges are doing so well and are keeping you on your toes!

Terry


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Great to hear they're both settling in so well.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pidgey, that's great news. Thanks so much for letting us know how they are doing.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I had a good laugh reading your post about those two. I can tell they entertain quite a bit 

Reti


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Pidgey.

LOL I understand about the antics. Sounds like they are feeling better and getting settled to a routine. 

I've got a handicapped hen that bites my hand to death, even though she asks me for help, she beats me up. I also wonder if she is saying "it's about time you got here...now hurry up already"....or does she blame me for her handicap and just needs to "vent"...no pun intended. She is never happy with me, no matter what I do for her.

Either way, I am her slave... 24/7.

Anyway, I can relate.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, a picture at last:










Ol' One Beak is in the front and Scissors is behind. Neither one seems to be able to eat on their own at all but they can drink just fine. I've left water in there for them and they seem to be managing tongue-wetting all on their own. I've kept an eye out on that but I don't see that they're having any problems.

Pidgey

...and a regular link if you can't see that one:

http://image66.webshots.com/666/3/20/98/2956320980073664377civThI_fs.jpg

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2956320980073664377civThI


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Wow...they sure are cute little guys.

I'm so glad they are in your care, Pidgey.

Thank you for taking such extra special care and time with them.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pidgey, when I clicked on the link they told me it was a "forbidden" page??


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know, unless the new owners of our site don't want links to webshots and other such sites on this one now. I added another link--try that one. And if that doesn't work, try copying-and-pasting it into your browser address bar. You may have to use the "Quote" reply function to get a working version of it.

Pidgey


----------



## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

The second link worked for me, Pidgey, nice looking birds. you have done wonders with them.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Snowbird Sue said:


> The second link worked for me, Pidgey, nice looking birds. you have done wonders with them.


Oh, no, not me--Moxie got them to this point. I'm just a home and maybe a little prosthetic technology later.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Update on Ol' One Beak & Scissors: I've been taking them out to the loft for half-days so they can stretch their wings and have a little fun. They've gotten to the point where feeding them's pretty simple. You just open their cage and go sit down with the stuff--they come to you to be fed. About the only problem is that one will stand on your hand while you're holding the other and you have problems with feet on the beak while you're trying to put the tube in. Call it... "enthusiasm".

Anyhow, it's easy to let them fly in the house now because you can shoo them back to the cage fairly easily and they know exactly what you're talking about and want. They're pretty doggone smart.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Pidgey, when I clicked on the link they told me it was a "forbidden" page??




Hi Maggie, 


If you click 'refresh' ( when you get the no-go page) it should work alright.


That's what I had to do


Phil
l v


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Thanks, Pidgey! Wonderful update on those two!

I wish Dom and Gimie would fly home after exercise time. Sometimes one or the other will. Usually they prefer giving me a wild chase. However, since they know I mean business, the time of the "catch" is getting shorter! With Dom, I MUST stop laughing...he prefers to run rather than fly. LOVES to lead me a merry chase!

Squeaks, Dom and Gimie send COOS with feather HUGS and SCRITCHES!

ME TOO

Shi


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Update on Ol' One Beak & Scissors: I've been taking them out to the loft for half-days so they can stretch their wings and have a little fun. They've gotten to the point where feeding them's pretty simple. You just open their cage and go sit down with the stuff--they come to you to be fed. About the only problem is that one will stand on your hand while you're holding the other and you have problems with feet on the beak while you're trying to put the tube in. Call it... "enthusiasm".
> 
> Anyhow, it's easy to let them fly in the house now because you can shoo them back to the cage fairly easily and they know exactly what you're talking about and want. They're pretty doggone smart.
> 
> Pidgey



Wow Pidgey, 


Good going..!


Glad to hear they are doing so well..!


'Seed-Pops' ought to be a breeze with these two..!


Phil
l v


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the great news update, Pidgey! I can envision feeding time 

Terry


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Glad to hear they are doing so well and that they have a routine and are easy to train. Have you got them using the toilet yet?


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Oh, Pidgey, you just MADE my day! Everything will go alot smoother today knowing they are doing well! 
Wow, thats amazing that they do that! How do they act around the other pijjies while outside? I always wonder if they will stay best buddies around other pigeons. Those two are a funny lookin', but cute pair! Scissors would always attack me when i tried to pull Ole' One beak out. How is Ol' one Beaks toungue doing? Have you had to keep it covered? How did you do it? Very curious to know how YOU did it...


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

On the tongue, Ol' One Beak seems to take pretty good care of it herself with the water but a vet told me that glycerin is the stuff they give humans when our salivary glands fail. It seems to work pretty good. I've also been working with Ol' One Beak with peas, corn and beans by holding them and letting her work them in as though she's feeding. It's kinda' like working a Pez Dispenser in reverse.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> On the tongue, Ol' One Beak seems to take pretty good care of it herself with teh water but a vet told me that glycerin is the stuff they give humans when our salivary glands fail. It seems to work pretty good. I've also been working with Ol' One Beak with peas, corn and beans by holding them and letting her work them in as though she's feeding. It's kinda' like working a Pez Dispenser in reverse.
> 
> Pidgey




Cool..!



Pictures???



I wonder if you could arrange an elevated narow trough at a slight incline, where a line of 'Peas' could roll by Gravity to the end, with the end having only two sides restraining the Pea, so that the Bird could grasp it from there?


"Ol' One Beak" only has the upper ( or lower? ) Mandible remainig?


Phil
lv


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Lower. Yeah, I've already been working on an idea for her. I wanted to make a prosthetic but I need to get some more supplies for it. The vet essentially said that you can literally put screws in to secure such a device but that they always give way in the end. I've got a wild idea but it's a lot more mechanical than what I was originally thinking. I've got some dental wire, now I need some dental acrylics and a few other supplies. It's been a bit hectic around here the last few months, though...

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Lower. Yeah, I've already been working on an idea for her. I wanted to make a prosthetic but I need to get some more supplies for it. The vet essentially said that you can literally put screws in to secure such a device but that they always give way in the end. I've got a wild idea but it's a lot more mechanical than what I was originally thinking. I've got some dental wire, now I need some dental acrylics and a few other supplies. It's been a bit hectic around here the last few months, though...
> 
> Pidgey




'Lower' is what is missing?


Or...

'Lower' is what is present?


Phil
l v


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Lower's still there. Picture:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2956320980073664377civThI

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Pidgey, 



So...if you put a 'Pea' right where it is as far back as it can go easily, does he open his Mouth to let it 'roll' back or get pulled back by his Tongue, to swallow it?



When I ( 'we' in those days, ) had a Pigeon who had lost her whole Beak top and bottom, for a while we did 'Seed-Pops', and she soon got to where just holding the Seed against her Mouth, she'd open wide and take it and swallow it...

Then, this led to her managing to eat using her Mouth, from a ( higher than usual ) Seed Bowl, by herself, where she would just lean over into it, open her Mouth, and grab a Pea or Corn Kernal, straighten up, and get it back far enough and swallow it.


Wow, was that ever a wonderful progress for her to learn..!


Anyway...just wondering about yours in these ways...


Seems to me, in some ways, that having no Beak at all ( if having an abbreviated lower Mandible ) could be possibly an easier handicap, than having only a top or bottom Beak...as far as learning to eat on their own is concerned.





Phil
l v


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I know, it probably would be easier. I just have a difficult time with that thought. You can't put it back once it's gone. I'd like to take a stab at a couple of other ideas first. I'd like for her to be able to preen eventually.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Oh, I know, it probably would be easier. I just have a difficult time with that thought. You can't put it back once it's gone. I'd like to take a stab at a couple of other ideas first. I'd like for her to be able to preen eventually.
> 
> Pidgey




Hi Pidgey, 



Oh no..!


I was not hinting any suggestion of removing the remaining Lower Mandible/Beak...


I was just making an observation based on my experience with the no-Beak-at-all Pigeon we had years ago..!



Phil
l v


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

What would we do without you two?


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Pidgey,

Do you simply swab her tongue with the glycerin? I have a scissored-beak bird also who drinks (and eats) well on her own, but I've noticed that the very tip of her tongue is dry. Wondering if the glycerin might help that.

Jennifer


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You could, but you want it to be a very tiny amount of the stuff because they'll get it in the feathers preening. I don't even bother putting it on Scissors, the other bird with the same problem that you describe.

Pidgey


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks!

Well, the very tip of the tongue is dried out and curled. I don't know if glycerin would help undo that? I suppose as long as the rest of the tongue is functional, she's fine. I'll encourage her to drink more meanwhile.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Postin' this because Moxie's curious:

Ol' One Beak & Scissors continue to go out to the loft every day for playtime. Scissors is usually ready to come back in (he's the agreeable one) but I had a bad couple of months with Ol' One Beak. That one's a real devil and liked to give me a merry chase every time when I went to catch her. Finally, I tried getting a lock on her position and turning the lights out, which worked until she started figuring out to move a few steps in the dark. I got better at fumbling around for her in the dark and she got better at going halfway around the loft in pitch blackness. In warfare, they call it "countermeasures" and, boy, does Ol' One Beak have a lot of 'em. But I finally won for good by feeding her peas and corn out there in the loft so that now she flies to me whenever I'm out there for any reason. So, now catching her is like giving candy to a baby...

Scissors is the same as ever. You rarely see them together out in the loft but they certainly don't fight when in the cage together--they're friends. They're not as rambunctious (sp?) in the house anymore since they get lots of exercise time out in the loft.

Pidgey


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Pidgey, and for the very AMUSING vision of human vs very wily pigeon  In a way, it's kinda sad that the pigeon fell for your human craftiness ..

Terry


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Oh! That makes me sooo happy to hear about them! I am SOOO glad they are still friends, they have been through a lot together. They deserved a good home, and luckily you SOMEHOW squeezed them in there with all your other birds! I know your wife probably wasnt none too happy about getting a few more, but i just keep thinkin' of that picture, the christmas pic with the pigeon, and dare i say it, did your wife look happy with that pigeon in there!!! Oh, TOO cute!
Hmmm, peas and corn, huh? Countermeasures, boy, that is one smart bird! Now i know why they used the smartest birds, the pigeon, in war. Although it makes me sad to think about the poor birds....
So, you have been busy as usual i see. How is Unie, i think she should be the PT mascot as heartfelt a story as she has.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I have been thinking of a sort of small "V" bottom Seed Trough, for 'Scissor-Beak' Pigeons to 'peck' in...



The idea...is when they would peck, the necessarily slick smooth sides of the "V" would push their Beak back into enough of an align...for them to grasp the Seed...


Have not tried it yet...but brooding on it...


I am about to let my 'Scissor Beak' into free-fly, hoping he will work with me for feed times...which till now, we have been doing in his Cage.


We do 'Seed Pops' and we have got so good at it, we do eight or nine Seeds like they were a little String-of-Pearls, one right behind the next almost touching eachother.


Goes really well that way...we can put away a dry Ounce in probably a minute or so.


But, I'd still like to find a way for him ( or others such as your's Pidgey, ) to be able to at least Peck their own some of the time...



Phil
l v


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Pidgey, maybe for christmas you can email me some pics of them? I'd love to see how they are doing, and some before and after of Ole' One beak would be cool to post here, dont know if everyone has seen or remembers the before on that poor gal! 
Whew! That one really made me stop in my tracks when i saw her! She is alive today because of Pidgey, because that was the first time i saw a bird and RIGHT away thought to call the wonderful animal rescue to euthanise, and Pidgey talked me into giving it a few days, and i am GLAD he did!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Ol' One Beak has a routine these days: she gets in the big feed can right on the grain where it's easy for me to pick individual kernels up to pop in what's left of her beak. I get little grunts between each one that seem to mean "can I have another?" She's really a very sweet bird with a devilish side. One of those times when I was searching all over the loft for her for several minutes, she was quietly standing on the black carrying case that I ferry the two of them in and out with. It was smack-dab in the middle of the place and it was the last place that I'd think to look for her. I think she was snickering the whole time. That bird always knows what you're thinking.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Ol' One Beak has a routine these days: she gets in the big feed can right on the grain where it's easy for me to pick individual kernels up to pop in what's left of her beak. I get little grunts between each one that seem to mean "can I have another?" She's really a very sweet bird with a devilish side. One of those times when I was searching all over the loft for her for several minutes, she was quietly standing on the black carrying case that I ferry the two of them in and out with. It was smack-dab in the middle of the place and it was the last place that I'd think to look for her. I think she was snickering the whole time. That bird always knows what you're thinking.
> 
> Pidgey


Ol' One Beak got the best of PIDGEY????  

Either he's getting "older" and has vision problems OR, my guess: Ol' One Beak is smarter than the average pij!! SHE SURE HAS MY VOTE!! GET 'IM, 'OL ONE BEAK!! 

HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi and her "happy to hear the news" gang


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I swear, life's been too busy to live lately...

Anyhow, small update for this thread. I've been working for a long time to teach Ol' One Beaker to eat and it's finally paid off--she's eating on her own now. She gets in the big feed barrel while I'm feeding the others and goes to town.

Starting to work with Scissors. Oddly enough, you'd a'thought it'd a'been easier for him but doesn't seem to be the case. We'll see.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Now, just who are you? 

Glad to hear such a nice update on Beaker. I guess she kinda scoops up the seed.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, she dives her beak in and works her tongue against what's left at the base of where her upper beak would be. It's enough. I always felt like she could get it someday if she worked with it long enough. Now she's gotta' learn control--she packs herself so full it worries me that she's going to get impacted.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sending ALL THE BEST WITH LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES to these "special" special need ones, Pidgey!!

They are sooo fortunate you are there for them!

Sounds great! 

Shi


----------

