# What color is this little guy?



## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm terrible at genetics - makes my head swim. This little guy is the product of a pure indigo hen and all white sire. What would this color be called? In contrast, the sibling is a barless red checker.

BTW: All the flight feathers are pure white.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Indigo check whiteflight. It is blue based, of course, and also has slate and probably dirty or sooty.


Edit: Also, if your hen is pure indigo, then all of her kids will be indigo. Unless she is carrying recessive white, you won't get more solid white kids from that pair. And what do you mean by red check barless?


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

Would it be considered "diluted"?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't see anything that would lead me to say it's dilute. The rusty color may not be as defined as your hen, but that's due to the slate (smokey) fading out the pattern a bit.


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Also, if your hen is pure indigo, then all of her kids will be indigo. Unless she is carrying recessive white, you won't get more solid white kids from that pair. And what do you mean by red check barless?


I think I mis-used the word "pure" - I meant "entirely" rather than the genetic term.

I was told the other sib was a "red check barless." I'll take a photo of her tonight and post it. 

BTW: I'd like to get a basic grasp on pigeon genetics and coloring. Any suggested reading? I'm CLUELESS.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

These are the two main sites I use:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/page1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/

Can't wait to see the pictures


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

I actually found a photo.  It's a bad image and hard to see her nape - but the flecks are very red. 

These sibs are the product of a full white homer and a half homer/half oriental roller. 3/4 homer. Couldn't more more different. The second bird is very "pet like" and friendly. The first bird is feisty and one of the fastest babies I've ever seen.


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

i think thats a ash-red marry whats snooty,and dilut got any pics i wanna learn more bout gentics to creat new colors in my tumblers i kno basics what was passed down to me throw my father and grand father nothing sicentific


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

garacari said:


> I actually found a photo.  It's a bad image and hard to see her nape - but the flecks are very red.
> 
> These sibs are the product of a full white homer and a half homer/half oriental roller. 3/4 homer. Couldn't more more different. The second bird is very "pet like" and friendly. The first bird is feisty and one of the fastest babies I've ever seen.


*This baby will molt out the baby feathers and you will have a ASH RED spread.* GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

garacari said:


> I actually found a photo.  It's a bad image and hard to see her nape - but the flecks are very red.
> 
> These sibs are the product of a full white homer and a half homer/half oriental roller. 3/4 homer. Couldn't more more different. The second bird is very "pet like" and friendly. The first bird is feisty and one of the fastest babies I've ever seen.


The white bird is carrying the spread gene, which is why you got this little guy. He's called a Lavender (ash-red spread, genetically). Spread is the same gene that turns blue birds into solid black birds. You would think it would turn ash-red birds solid red, but it actually takes the color of the tail bar (in which ash-reds have that silvery light ashy color in their tail) and spreads it over the whole bird. That's why blue turns to black - because they have black tail bars.

Spread ash-red birds often show some of the red color like yours does. But like George said, usually it all moults away. Sometimes faint bars will remain, but the rest of the bird is the silvery color. Very pretty! A lot of people call these "red barless", which is misleading because the barless gene has nothing to do with Lavender. TRUE barless ash-reds look like normal red bars (with the red neck) but without the bar. Those are much more rare than the Lavenders.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

hasseian_313 said:


> i think thats a ash-red marry whats snooty,and dilut got any pics i wanna learn more bout gentics to creat new colors in my tumblers i kno basics what was passed down to me throw my father and grand father nothing sicentific


Sooty is a darkening gene. It can make false checks, in which (for example) a blue bar will appear to be a light check, even though it is genetically just a barred bird. It gives true checked birds a neat effect. In blue birds, a lot of sooties (especially the barred ones) are called 'pencils'. That's another misleading name, because there is actually a gene called pencil, which has nothing to do with sooty. In ash-red birds, it is often called strawberry.

Pictures of how the three darkening genes effect the look of birds, and how to tell them apart.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/smokey.html


The dilute gene turns ash-red birds to ash-yellow (sometimes called cream), blue to silver (often incorrectly called dun bars and checks), and brown to khaki. Dilute recessive red is recessive yellow. Dilute black birds are called dun.

Other genes that dilute/lighten the color are Ecru (extreme dilute - this makes the 'Lemon' birds) and Pale.

Info and pics:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/yellow.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/dilutepale.html


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

very nice color what color are the parents?


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## avian (Sep 6, 2010)

is it opal?
I don't have much knowledge on gene variation!!!!!!!!


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

Here are the parents...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Your hen doesn't really look much like an andalusian, but more like a regular black. However, her tail bar does look washed out so I guess she is just a dark colored andalusian.


Andalusian is the result of indigo and spread. Your white cockbird is ash-red underneath the white. So ash-red from dad and spread from mom made your baby lavender. Your andalusian only has one gene for spread and one gene for indigo.


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

Becky, thank you very much! I really need to start learning more about genetics. Maybe I'll actually crack a book over the Thanksgiving long weekend.


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