# How do you build a family/strain?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I'd like to get everyone's take on this question. Thanks in advance!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

My knowledge is limited, but I would just pick out birds to breed with, and then name the strain of the birds after yourself.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*It Takes Time To Do It*

*Hi KAL-EL, First you must understand that building a family will take some time (YEARS).I would start with 2 or 4 pair of birds from 2 different racing familys. These birds should be inbred.I would then cross breed so as to get hybrids that I would race.I would then breed the best of the hybrids back to one of the parents again I would race the young,and again breed the best back to a rarent or in some cases back to a grand parent.Remember work with only the best racers,keep good records of every thing you do. If at any time after you have built your family you feel the need for new blood make a very careful choice of the bird that you bring in it should be one from one of the familys of inbreds that you started with,VERY VERY CAREFUL CHOICE.Again I must remind you this will take time * GEORGE


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

there is two strains of pigeons cock or hen strain many breeds and names


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

JohnG said:


> there is two strains of pigeons cock or hen strain many breeds and names


What?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

John G--So you only have 2 Strains of birds in your loft? Please explain "strain"----Cock? Hen? offspring? bloodline? colors? large? Small?
Show birds? Racers? Homers? Fancy?
Your website mentions several NAMES That I have never heard of. But then I am just a 73 y/o dumbas----.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I have heard of Schofields. The grouse-legged racers.
There are two genders of course, hen and cock.
There are over 200 breeds of domestic pigeons.
Within those breeds, there may be strains, bloodlines, and families, such as in homers, rollers (because it doesn't matter if it's a jac or a fireball, it's STILL a _Birmingham_ roller  ), and other competition birds.
Or there can be several varieties, like as in Show or Flying, 'Old Style' or 'Modern', or distinct color patterns like the Oriental Frill, which can be broken down into Satinette and Blondinettes, or even more specific as to say Bluette, Sulphurette, etc.


With racing pigeons, the only specifics we use are strains, which is basically a fancier's loft of pigeons named by him/her, or bloodlines and families which are based around one bird or a group of birds.


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

if our hens are on the small side with small heads and your cocks have small heads and are small to medium, you have a hen strain. It just means that you have dominant hens in your breeding loft. And just the opposite for a cock strain. If you are breeding big hens that look like cocks, you have a cock strain. Its all about genes and breeding. Some hens produce alot of winners, which means the hens are the dominant breeding force. And also there are cocks that breed alot of winners with different hens. It all depends what side of the family the birds resemble. They could be Jensens, Houbens, etc.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Hmm...I've never heard of that...


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*You can build a family using a cock or a hen as the base bird in that family that's why there are familys that look more hen like and others that more cock like. In the family (hen type) you will see cocks that are more hen looking, In the cock type you get hens that are more like cocks in body even have larger wattles. In the system that I posted eariler you breed only from the best and not just the best of one sex,in this way you will most often have hens that look like hens and cocks that look like cocks.* ..GEORGE


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

thats right this family go's backto fats schofield . the silver on my site go's back 50 years breeding is and art just like racing is you have to know your family and their traits


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

bbcdon said:


> My knowledge is limited, but I would just pick out birds to breed with, and then name the strain of the birds after yourself.


I agree on Bbcdon...You build your family of birds from the way you want...Personally I like my birds to be fast to trap in because that's what matters the most during the race (eventhough I haven't join any race yet, maybe someday), I also like the bird that are easy to handle and respond to my command (whistling/shaking the feed, if I want them to go in)...So far I never have any untame birds who is hard-headed...I honestly think it is from your own experience, how to build a family of homers...Now in the future, if you join any race and keep winning then maybe you can call your strain the Kal-El strain...Regardless of where you got all your birds once you reach the goal, you can change any strains to your name...


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

*schofields*



sky tx said:


> John G--So you only have 2 Strains of birds in your loft? Please explain "strain"----Cock? Hen? offspring? bloodline? colors? large? Small?
> Show birds? Racers? Homers? Fancy?
> Your website mentions several NAMES That I have never heard of. But then I am just a 73 y/o dumbas----.


I was just looking to help a young flyer. My birds go back over 50 years and i won over 300 races IF hall of fame and have bred countless winners for men in my club and all over the USA. Big money, races also our club futurity 7 times.I fly 315 miles .The short end I have 54 miles over fly on and thats the biggest club .With 45 guys in it


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Hmm...I've never heard of that...


You have NOW!!! LOL


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> You have NOW!!! LOL


LOL, yup!


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> LOL, yup!


I would like to hear what JohnG has to say about any subject so let it ride and fill us all in on what needs to be done


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> I'd like to get everyone's take on this question. Thanks in advance!


 If you haven't already seen it, I suggest you review the mini-course I have posted on my web site from Steven vanBreeman. By reading how he developed his strain you can develope new insites into the process. 

See:
http://smithfamilyloft.com/Genetics1.html


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I have read Steve's article. It's pretty interesting. Thank you.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> If you haven't already seen it, I suggest you review the mini-course I have posted on my web site from Steven vanBreeman. By reading how he developed his strain you can develope new insites into the process.
> 
> See:
> http://smithfamilyloft.com/Genetics1.html


You know Warren, even when you do not say much, you still have a lot to say. And it is always interesting. I'm about halfway through his course and still taking notes.

Thanks,
Tony


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

*Video You May Like*



LokotaLoft said:


> I would like to hear what JohnG has to say about any subject so let it ride and fill us all in on what needs to be done


if I CAN PUT THEM ON I DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT


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## Glyn (Jun 29, 2009)

Exacly What Im Doing , ive got some inbreds from barnsley and in going to breed them and keep the strain going for abit and then call them after Me , do you think it would work


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2009)

You can do anything if you put the time in. And work hard. you can't make a bad bird good but you can make a good bird a grate one


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

The easiest way I can think of is to start with say four pair of birds of a successful family of birds and cross their offspring. Why not let someone else do all the hard work? Select the best of these birds to carry on the lineage. From here I would cross in a few select birds from different bloodlines to give them vigor and try and better the family. I think the key is to be selective. Now the family may be best at a certain distance. Thus you may need two or more families of birds. I have taken a similar route in developing the Hill Family Birds. I did bring a few birds outside of the main group initially. Most of my birds had a good amount of Vic Miller Blood. Here I added a Ikon bird, an Engels Bird and a Full Janssen Brothers Bird. From these I have kept my blood pretty closed and selected the best for four years. I brought in two birds this year and will add some of Ace's Stock next year. I will then close the family up again and access the outcome of the new blood. I do keep the best pairs together year after year. 

Randy


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks for the great formula Randy! This is my 3rd year of competing and I want nothing more than to build a consistent family. Your method will help me select my birds and build from there.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Kal-El said:


> Thanks for the great formula Randy! This is my 3rd year of competing and I want nothing more than to build a consistent family. Your method will help me select my birds and build from there.


Thanks for giving me credit. But this method is followed by many sucessful fanciers. I think the secret is getting quality birds up front. To give you an idea of what I selected to bring in, the following are the birds I added last year. 

A hen off a Cock I sent to ABQ that won at 250 miles and had many top 10% finishes. Her sister also won the 200 mile race last year. I could not get her, but needed a hen. She was a logical choice. The sire was a Denver bird that flew very well in the 2007 young bird season in ABQ. I crossed her with the SLI bird below.

An imported hen off of Verinque (1st national Borgues) against 13K birds. She hatched one youngster for me. She is a bit old. $50 said give her a try. 

The third bird was a SLI bird from New York. Anthony from ABQ flew two birds off this family. Both were strong birds. They were consistent and at least one was always in the top 10%. One was 2nd in our 300 mile futurity right in front of my bird at 3rd. Felt this bloodline was good. He is the best looking cock in the loft. ie. Stock Sense

The only other birds other than my foundation 12 birds, of which I still have 9 breeding in my loft, that have been added were a Grandson of Ikon, and a Grandaughter of the 2001 Snow bird winner that was a half sister to two of my best breeders. 

This year I will add about 3 birds from ACE and a few select off my team in ABQ after the season is over. I have also sold three pair of breeders. My version of culling. I will probably replace two cocks also from my breeders. This method was learned from the great Ludo. He would thin his breeders back periodically. Only keeping the best pairs. I also add yearlings into my breeding rotation to keep the bloodline young. All but the old hen are less than 5 years old. I will let you know if this works for me in the next few years. I am getting to the point where I feel I can pull birds for stock and be fairly comfortable that they will produce good birds. I also select by gender. I choose the gender off my best breeders that have produce winners. This seems to work for me.

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I thought I needed to expand on my statement that I feel fairly confortable about choosing stock birds. Many think that the basket is the only way you can be sure. I think you can also do pretty well by keeping imaculate breeding records, statistics, and stock sense to also choose good breeders. 

For instance, I have a cock bird "Buzz". He has bred two first place winners in two years along with many top 10 finishes. His grandson was 3rd in last years ABQ futurity. Two of his sisters have bred winners. ie. Combine winner for ACE. His brother won the Wester Slopes Futurity average speed. His grandson was the most consistent bird out of what I sent ACE last year. He is crossed with a hen (granddaughter of Snow Bird Winner) and half sister of two birds that have bred winners. I will be stocking three birds off of him this year. Yes without the basket. I will test the pairing for a few years before I put money on the youngsters. 

Pretty simple philosopy. Breed from your best. I stocked one hen off him last year and she hit. Her brother bred good birds for ACE. This year I will stock more from him. I will also add a sibling or two of his. See how this works. A family is born. Buzz's Dam and Aunt are off of Vern Crawleys best bird "08" that has bred many money winners for him. "08" was a Bob Kinney bird (South Africa Million Dollar Winner). They did most of the work. 

Bottom Line get good birds and breed from the best you get out of them. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One last thing. I also have 10 birds off this bloodline and 10 off of ACE's blood on my race team in ABQ to choose from. Yes and these will be basket tested against good competition. The rest is off my speed birds that I will also be bringing in new young to breed. That is a different story and branched off family of birds. I do cross the lines and have success with the crossings. 

Randy


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

well, if you want to build a family of birds then you must have more than one bird of that family. I prefer a number of 6. This is my method. 

For example, You would want 3-4 full brothers or sisters off proven stuff and they themselves would be good flyers as well. 

Then 3-4 half brothers/sisters to the ones above which they must be proven or consistent flyers as well( does not matter if its on sire or hen side. but each offspring must be crossed onto different strain) I found it best to go to a good flyer and pick his best family of birds to start with unless you have your own family and enough to work with.

You can then put the birds together and start from there because all birds are from same strain , yet some are cross out. Ex, If you put two half bros/sis together you'd get an offspring crossed 3 ways 50% of strain you want and 25% each of two other strain. You can take that offspring and pair it back to the group of full bro/sis. or pair it to one of the half bro/sis. which would make the offspring out of this pair a 4 way cross. With this method you have so many ways to produce the best of the best.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Thanks for giving me credit. But this method is followed by many sucessful fanciers. I think the secret is getting quality birds up front. To give you an idea of what I selected to bring in, the following are the birds I added last year.
> 
> A hen off a Cock I sent to ABQ that won at 250 miles and had many top 10% finishes. Her sister also won the 200 mile race last year. I could not get her, but needed a hen. She was a logical choice. The sire was a Denver bird that flew very well in the 2007 young bird season in ABQ. I crossed her with the SLI bird below.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have it down pretty pat to me ! 

Get good birds to start, breed from your best, only keep the best. Mother Nature in the end, will rule the day, we just have to offer as much assistance as we can. And a little luck never hurts.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren

You know you are starting to agree with me more and more. It probably has nothing to do with the fact that I am beginning to sound like you. Ha Ha.

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren
> 
> You know you are starting to agree with me more and more. It probably has nothing to do with the fact that I am beginning to sound like you. Ha Ha.
> 
> Randy




No....I think you have made major contributions to this site, and your posts are constructive and well thought out. I appreciate the time and effort you have contributed, and perhaps I should have said this before, and given you more acknowledgement. At times I may have been thinking too much of what I wanted to say, when I should have been pondering your thoughts and comments. Turns out, I didn't know even half of what I thought I did. And as time goes on, I have discovered the reality is, I don't really know much at all. I am sure that a few years from know, I will look back and read some of my own posts, and I will think....Boy was that dumb !


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One of the few pieces of good advice that my dad gave me is:"Son when you graduate for high school you will think you know everything, but when you graduate from college you will find out just how stupid you really are." I think this contiues throughtout life. It makes us much smarter to know out weeknesses. 

Another I like is that you do not judge the intelligence of an educated man because of what he knows, but how much he has forgot. 

If we quit learning when we get older we just become set in our ways. 

I have always been one not to tell you how much I now, but to share and throw ideas out to those much smarter than I am and see what bounces back. 

I appreciate the good words Warren. What it all boils down in pigeon racing is that we should always listen to those kicking our butts and take the rest with a grain of salt. 

Randy


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Wow Randy, I really enjoying reading your thoughts about my thread! Right now, I'm just breeding from grandchildren off Mr. In the Money. I've been crossing these birds, who are directs sons and daughters. My real dilemma is that it's so hard to get good stock birds locally. Very few successful fliers are reluctant sell good stock birds. I've had my share of also-rans that were advertised as "can't miss" breeders. And I'm iffy on obtaining birds from out of area, because I've heard stories of how out of area birds don't fare well in my neck of the woods. What I'm looking for is that super stud foundation cock, then I'll go from there.


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

It take about .
4 years.
To built a family .
An experience. Is a most factor..
I gave away y.b that are winner..
And to hard work.
Everything pay off.
And am just a breeder..
..


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

In 60 year having pigeon.
Everyday I LEARN.
IS REALLY HARD.
TO COMPETE IN TWO.
DIFFERENT GAME.
RACING AN BREEDING. 
YOU CANT MASTER.
TWO,GAME WITHOUT HELP.
YOU REALLY NEED.SOMEONE.
BECAUSE BOTH GAME.
IS NOT EASY TO CONCORD...
THE BREEDER ARE THE WINNER.
YOU DONT HAVE THEM
IN TOP CONDITION. 
YOU DONT WIN.
GOOD LUCK..


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