# Homeopathies for a PMV bird?



## Pigeonfriend (Aug 14, 2009)

So, a week ago I took my possible PMV bird to the Wild Bird Fund in New York for a check-up. I made sure to call them and check that they would not euthanize the bird. They said they wouldn't.

They sprayed him for mites, gave him some vitamin injections (B-12, calcium, and something else), and gave me some medication in case it was an inner ear infection (I gave it for a week, and there was not improvement, so he is off it now). I took him in again on Saturday, because the woman said she found yeast in his stool (surprisingly, it hasn't been runny for over two weeks now), so I got some anti-yeast medicine and de-worming medication. He eats a seed mix on his own, and I supplement him once a day with 30 peas and 30 corn.

The woman I took him to is convinced it's PMV, and every time I come she keeps saying that sooner or later he will have to be put down, because he will be too scared/distressed. I really don't believe in euthanasia, and I wish she would have more of a lets-fight-this attitude. 

Unfortunately, after 4 weeks (since I found him), his head turning seems to have intensified, and he may have shaken a couple of times. I really hope that doesn't mean he can't recover.

Sorry for the long description, I just wanted to explain the situation. My question is this. The woman recommended a homeopathic for the PMV: either Cicuta Virosa or Astrigaus Muscer (she didn't know exactly how to spell the second one, and I can't seem to find it, so if someone knows how to spell it, please let me know). Has anyone had any success with either of these? Can they do any harm to him? They seem to be very hard to find in New York City, if anyone knows a place, I would really appreciate it. Any information you can give me would be great!


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Pigeonfriend...



I do not know about the Homeopathics...but, if you can elect the ones which others who do know recommend, seems well worth trying to me.


Otherwise, good suportive care, good nutrition...upping the "B" Vitamins for them, ACV-Water...aid in pecking when needed...are all good things.

Some seem to get worse for a while, others stay the same indefinitely, while others appear to improve from the get go.


Every PPMV PIgeon is an individual, and things can or will differ from one to another.


Possibly any Natural anti-inflamitories would also be worth trying...

Time will tell as ragard how much recovery any given Pigeon will have.

This can be many months or years even.

Some recover to where one would never know they had been afflicted...others have a legacy to some degree or another.



Why is the Bird with some rescue place who wants to euthenize? ( Remember, they are always short on personel, time, room and so on, so they really do not want long term care Birds!!! taking up room and time and food and so on...)

Is there some reason you are not caring for this Pigeon at home?


Phil
Lv


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Pigeonfriend said:


> The woman I took him to is convinced it's PMV, and every time I come she keeps saying that sooner or later he will have to be put down, because he will be too scared/distressed. I really don't believe in euthanasia, and I wish she would have more of a lets-fight-this attitude.


The rehabbers at the place you went to often argue that PMV birds get "euthanized" there because there is no space for them (and if you voice distaste for this protocol, they helpfully offer to ship all the PMV birds to you instead). Then two breaths later, they claim that these birds are miserable in captivity (even in the face of evidence to the contrary) and therefore must be "euthanized." And while you were told your bird wouldn't be "euthanized" if you brought him in, plenty of people are. I wish they'd at least come up with a consistent policy.

On the homeopathics, I have not heard of using either of the two mentioned with PMV, but Cynthia has some experience with different remedies. Hopefully she'll see this thread and offer her thoughts. I order obscure remedies from Washington Homeopathic Products at homeopathyworks.com; Bigelow downtown also carries many of the less-common remedies: http://www.bigelowchemists.com/contact_us.php


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Treated sweetly when interacting with them, gently handled and cared for, provided for...allowed to be one of the Family, most PPMV Pigeons are very easy to take care of, and, are soon acclimated to their care give, and to their new surrounds and conditions, and are happy, self sufficient Pigeons, who elect mates, Build Nests, and will make Babys if allowed to.

This assumes one lives 'with' one's Birds.

Handicapped Birds of any sort, 'floor Birds', if consigned to merely some mimimal outdoor shed or something, will likely be as miserable as anyone else would be, if that were done to them.


Pretty simple really..."The Golden Rule".


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This extract is from the "Resources" section thread on Pigeon PMV ( http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pigeon-paramyxovirus-aka-pmv-ppmv-pmv1-pigeon-12250.html )

SOME USEFUL HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES

* I have had some success treating the paralysis/stroke symptoms of Pigeon PMV using the homeopathic remedy Conium Maculatum (common hemlock) dosing with a single tablet of the 30 potency three times a day for up to 10 days.
* Birds that tremble and fall over when they try to move because their balance is impaired may benefit from Argenitum Nit 30 potency, one tablet given 3 or 4times a day for up to 2 days.
* Belladonna can be used for birds that are restless with convulsive movement and jerking limbs. 2 pilules twice a day.


Remember not to touch homeopathic pilules with your hands, this can contaminate them and reduce effectiveness, give them on a “clean mouth” (no food or additions to the drinking water 20 minutes before or 20 minutes after) and stop the remedy as soon as an improvement shows

I, personally, have not used homeopathic remedies, so cannot offer an opinion.

John


----------



## Pigeonfriend (Aug 14, 2009)

I guess I should clarify. I didn't bring him in for them to keep. I brought him in for check-ups, so they couldn't just take him in the back room somewhere without me knowing. The bird is still living with me.

Another question that I have is this. Are there places around New York City, or even further, that keep PMV birds permanently? I am leaving for a week in the beginning of September (driving 10 hours each way), so I don't think it would be good for me to make the pigeon go on a 20-hour drive in the car. I would really love to find a place for him where he has a BIG space and other birds. Are there sanctuaries like that?


----------



## Pigeonfriend (Aug 14, 2009)

How do I up the B vitamin (he did get an injection of it a week ago)? Also what's ACV-Water?


----------



## Pigeonfriend (Aug 14, 2009)

Here are the two products (either or) the lady recommended. Would there be any harm in trying them, or should I not give them unless I get confirmation from someone here?

http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Agaric...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1280159155&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Cicuta...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1280159211&sr=1-1


----------



## Pigeonfriend (Aug 14, 2009)

One last question. I just want to make sure I am doing everything right. Currently, the pigeon is in a 7.5 sq ft. space (you can see the picture) with 14-inch walls (not shown in the picture). The problem is he flies over the wall and goes around pooping on the floor. There are two issues with that. First, he doens't go back in, so he is without food and water until I get home (since that's all in his space). Secondly, I do have three other animals, two of which are guinea pigs, which are very, very fragil animals, and I am not comfortable them being potentiall exposed to the poop. It's a fairly small studios, so we are all in one room. Right now, I put a piece of carboard over the top before I leave, but I am concerned that he won't like it being so dim.

I really don't have anything to make taller walls. Is there anything I can do to get him to stay in that space? When he does get out, it's not like he walks around, he still just goes over and sits in once place (I can tell by the poops). Also, every time I am there he tries to fly over, I say: 'no' and wave my hand at him until he comes off the top of the grid the walls are made off. Is that too stressful for him? He is already terrified of me, because I forcefully give him medication.


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Pigeonfriend,

I would keep him confined to his carrier with the back half draped with a towel. This way, he has an area in his "house" that is quiet and dark that he can retreat to when he's feeling overwhelmed, and he'll always be able to make his way to his food and water. Being stressed (and being deprived of food/water all day qualifies) is going to intensify the symptoms.

You can get B-complex and add that to his water or else syringe it the way you do with meds.

There's no harm in trying the homeopathic remedies, but I would tend not to use higher than 30c potency (the ones you linked to are 200c). I would dissolve a pellet or two in an ounce of distilled/spring water, give a few drops with a dropper from outside the beak, and see if you notice any positive changes. You can give a couple of doses over the course of a day of one or the other remedy. If no effect, discontinue. If it seems to help somewhat, you can continue dosing the same way over a few days.


----------

