# Ganus Strain ????



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Seen a couple of pedigree`s on IPigeon that said the bird was a Ganus Strain....Now,I`m no expert on pedigree`s per say,but I know one thing,it takes 20 years or more to make up a Strain....Ganus hasn`t had any family of birds for 20 yrs...He keeps buying and adding every year...You can`t bring in that many different birds,from all over the world,and call them a STRAIN......Alamo
PS:I know Ganus didn`t make this claim,some of his BUYERS of birds are !!


----------



## Timber (Jan 6, 2009)

Some say that if you breed it for 4 generations, it can then become your strain. Some even say, "if I breed it, its my strain"...but most of the time, you can figure out the 'Base Strain" and work with that if needed....


----------



## JHoll (Mar 22, 2009)

Just an observation, Mike Ganus will never in his lifetime give credit where credit is due. Look over his full page adds and you never see who really bred the bird in Europe or the background or any kind of praise for the real master breeder, and it aint M.G.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> Seen a couple of pedigree`s on IPigeon that said the bird was a Ganus Strain....Now,I`m no expert on pedigree`s per say,but I know one thing,it takes 20 years or more to make up a Strain....Ganus hasn`t had any family of birds for 20 yrs...He keeps buying and adding every year...*You can`t bring in that many different birds,from all over the world,and call them a STRAIN......*Alamo
> PS:I know Ganus didn`t make this claim,some of his BUYERS of birds are !!


 I am not sure if that is true or not, then again I have not found the rule book for such things. I am thinking that in theory a fancier could bring in all kinds of birds every year and breed to a particular type, without any real consistant line breeding or inbreeding and still come up with a line of birds which people would refer to by the fanciers name. Seems to me there has been some well known fliers in the last 100 years whose birds were referred to as a "strain". Don't know how one determines if one is a "strain" or not, but I do know many fanciers that refer to their birds as this or that strain. At the end of the day, would find it hard to believe that after a few generations in the hands of breeders other the then the original founder of a "strain" is in fact that strain. But, we have had this discussion many, many times in various threads over the years. I don't think that "debate" was ever really settled. In fact, if you want to get someone mad at you, just tell them that their birds are not what they say they are, and you have a fight on your hands !! 

As far as the Mike Ganus operation, I would think that is a special situation of more like a stud farm. As I don't think he really breeds from his own One Loft race winners, as they are sold. So there is no real generational thing there going on in terms of breeding winners back into any so called family line. I think when the term Mike Ganus Strain has been used by others in their ads, they are really just talking about offspring which were purchased at some point from him, which were from Racing Champs he has imported from Europe.
So in principal, I think the term is being misused in the various ads to sell pigeons, but that is just me.


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Just my opinion, but I think he just sells out of the expensive birds he buys from europe. He could have developed a family, but chose the other route. I have been told that he raises approximately 3,000 yb's each year.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I wouldn't like seeing that on a pedigree. "Ganus strain" doesn't tell me anything. He breeds more than he flies and he buys birds from all over the world. So they could be anything, bred for any distance, from any person. Breeding stations can't really have a strain, in my opinion. There isn't much selection going on or an effort to create a family or bloodline.

I don't like how everything he buys suddenly becomes a "Ganus bird", as if he bred it himself. He even renames some of them, which may sound silly but I just think it's disrespectful to the breeder of the bird, where it gained its success. That's just ME though


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I wouldn't like seeing that on a pedigree. "Ganus strain" doesn't tell me anything. He breeds more than he flies and he buys birds from all over the world. So they could be anything, bred for any distance, from any person. Breeding stations can't really have a strain, in my opinion. There isn't much selection going on or an effort to create a family or bloodline.
> 
> I don't like how everything he buys suddenly becomes a "Ganus bird", as if he bred it himself. He even renames some of them, which may sound silly but I just think it's disrespectful to the breeder of the bird, where it gained its success. That's just ME though



Agree... and he must have fantastic birds, every year his new hen is " the best breeding hen ever brought to America " Really how many "the best" can there be.
Dave


----------



## Timber (Jan 6, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> Agree... and he must have fantastic birds, every year his new hen is " the best breeding hen ever brought to America " Really how many "the best" can there be.
> Dave


LMAO.....so true !!


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have had two birds that are off direct Ganus birds. That is both parents are Ganus birds. Only one is a so called strain. She is off two Ganus banded birds off four birds he purchased from the Janssen brothers. Thus a strain bird. The pedigrees are only full of Janssen brothers birds. She is still in my loft. This one is not a Ganus bird. The other bird that I no longer have was also off two Ganus birds. His grandparents were from Belgium. Each from a separate loft. When you look at the breeding page from Ganus, he does not show you any of the pedigrees from his birds, nor does he refer to the breeder in his write-up of the bird. Makes no sense to me why he hides the truth, but he has been very successful at doing so. You got to buy them before I will show you the peds. I look at Mike as more of a wholesaler. He buys and imports birds, breeds from them and then sells the babies. Don't know what I would call a strain or not, but something to think about. If both sides of the pedigree have birds from the same fancier you might be looking at a strain. That is if you see it a few generations back.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I would think a strain bird would have to have the same lineage on each side of the pedigree and be at least 75% of that bloodline. For instance I have a pair of siblings that has 7 of 8 of their great grandparents Vic Miller birds. Now once I cross that bird out of the family, not a strain anymore. I will start breeding from my fourth generation this year. Finally I would call those birds strain birds but only if the same rule above applies. Strain is not that easily definable.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

What I will say is that birds that are from so called strains have been more successful as breeders for my. Mark's 620 I would call a Warren Smith bird as far as pedigree goes. She bred very good birds. My Vic Miller birds mentioned above, very good breeders. I like the 3/4 birds. My two Bob Kinney birds were also very good breeders. Now that I have more generations to work with, I may try some 1/4, 3/4 birds. Like say a Uncle x niece crossed to a sibling x outside bird. Vic Miller did this. Warren's ped of 620 looked similar with 3/4 his blood x 1/4 ludo.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

This could work well with the theory of line-breeding for stock and then crossing these birds back to your best outcrossed racers with half their blood. This goes hand in hand with breeding your best line-bred breeders with your best racers. My peds do not show much color on each side, or same birds in linage on both sides. The will as I breed more and more generations.


----------



## calzephyr (Dec 22, 2009)

I give Mike Ganus a little more credit than some here. He does track the offspring of his birds very well and follws their progress after they leave his loft. When he sells the children of his breeders and they do well for the new owner, he sometimes steps in and buys them back in order to keep as much of the "good" line in his loft as possible.

He also enters a lot of one loft races and is very generous with donations to clubs and worthy causes. He seems like a friendly and approachable person who is willing to share information and champion the sport.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

There is one loft that sells his what I call "Breed-Less" Ganus birds every year...The last two years,he has 100 or more GFL banded birds for sale in the RPD magazine..Most are 2 to 4 years old....Why ?? They haven`t bred anything worth while...He must buy 50 or more Ganus birds each year,to be able to SELL 100 or more each year....I wonder if he`s keeping any ??? Alamo


----------



## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I think we are talking (once again) about the mis-use of the word "strain". I myself have referred to some of my own birds as "Ganus birds" knowing full well that they are not bred as a family. When I call them "Ganus birds" or "down from Ganus Janssen birds", my intent is to indicate a certain degree of quality. We all know he buys the best of the best.

As mentioned previously in this thread, it can be quite difficult to trace lineage back from many of Ganus breeders as he doesn't publicize that information and he changes names of birds. Band numbers can be hard to come by as well unless you surf around for pedigrees or if you have one yourself. 

So I agree, using the term "Ganus strain" is a mis-use and inappropriate. But saying simply that your birds are down from Ganus' is, while vague, still appropriate and helpful when trying to describe an origin or a level of quality.


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

As the author of the following quote say's, I'm not promoting Ganus Family Lofts. Joe Nemelka wrote this on his site discussing the "Sun City" race results to date.

"I will like to say it again that I am amazed at Ganus Family Loft's performance to date. I have never bought a pigeon from Mike Ganus, I have never spoken to Mike Ganus and I don't believe there is a pigeon in my loft with Ganus blood in it - I guess what I am saying is I am not here to promote Ganus. With that disclosure, to see Mike Ganus have four (YES 4) birds in the Top 28 Overall Averages AMAZES me!!! Yea, I have already heard the story that Mike sent 60 birds or so birds to Sun City, but folks you are missing the true beauty of Sun City if you say that. If Mike sent 60 birds that is only .76% of the birds send to Sun City - less than 1%!!!! Here is some more perspective - Belgium sent 491 birds and The Netherlands sent 404 birds - and between the 895 birds they sent they have ZERO - yes '0' - birds in the Top 28 birds. Belgium's first bird is at 38th and The Netherlands comes in at 65th!! So I say it again - amazing performance so far for Ganus Family Loft. As I said, all it takes is one race to change everything so don't hold your breath, but so far a truly amazing performance".


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I'm one of them that gives Ganus a bad time, I have several breeders down from his stock and on my race teem. So I would like to apologize, Mr Ganus has en eye for good birds an deep enough pockets to get what he wants.
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think giving Mike Ganus a hard time and stating the facts are two different things. We all know Mike has some amazing birds. I have stock down from his birds. They are good birds. I think most of us are pointing out simple facts. Not Ganus bashing. He is also one of the smartest in the pigeon business. Personally I think their are some good birds of equal quality for a lot less. Ganus is the Toyota of the pigeon business. He gets the premium for his birds. Better than a Nissan, Chevy or Ford, who knows, but he brings in the bucks. Just look at the AU auction of the top 50 birds. Not surprised his has the highest bid. I would probably buy two of the Jones boys birds in the top 20. Better value in my opinion. Back to the auto analogy. Not disclosing information in peds and web site reminds me of a used car salesman. Show me the bird fax.


----------

