# Roundworms- Need some info



## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

About 2 weeks ago, I saw worms in the stool of my pigeons. I probably should have been treating them on a regular basis, but I didn't think it would ever become a problem. My loft is scraped everyday. I don't know much about worms and been trying to learn about them. 
Someone said to treat with Piperazine-17. I put 2 tablespoons per gallon and then repeated 14 days later. Thought the worms were gone but I was wrong. I found out that I was suppose to repeat after 8 days. I am now re-trying this. I gave it to them in their water on Dec 17 and plan to do it again on Dec 25. Will this work and what is the effectiveness? I keep reading about their eggs and how it could take 2 weeks etc. I want them gone asap and need to know whats the best med to treat 130 birds quickly and effectively. Can anyone please help!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It should work. The repeated treatment is critical.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What did the worms you saw look like?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

If you saw worms in their fecals _before_ you wormed them, they must be loaded!
This is from another discussion about worming -

"It's shown that roundworms have already built a resistance to Ivermec.
That's why its good to rotate wormers. I still rotate and use it, but _I have __better luck with Pyrantel (strongid), and its safer._
*I've read in many avian reports that once you have roundworms (in a large flock), that it is nearly impossible to clear them 100%. Therefore they should be on a routine worming schedule. I worm mine every 3 months and they pass roundworms everytime!*
I never had a problem with roundworms until I took in the 11 rescued homers and tumblers that were seized by the NHSPCA from an abuse situation.
On the other hand, my fantails are in a different enclosure. I worm them once a year - NEVER had or passed any worms."

ALSO - "I use Pyrantel Pamoate 50mg/ml strength. So its .13 ml per bird, in the mouth!
*Or you can put it in their drinking water. The dose for that is 75mg per gallon of water, so that is 1 1/2 mls per gallon*. But you have to use it right away if you put it in the water." Repeat in 2 weeks.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> If you saw worms in their fecals before you wormed them, they must be loaded!


This is what I thought...so I am wondering whether they were roundworms or tapeworm egg sacs. Yes, I know that they don't look at all like each other but it is the tapeworms that turn up in poops and Piperazine doesn't kill them.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Piperazine citrate is old medicine not so efficient for round worms as it has been in use for long years and there is build resistance to this drug. I would suggest Praziquantel, but as Charis said, you must repeat treatment after 10~14 days.
Vetafarm's Wormout Gel is pretty good product
http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com/photo_1.html


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

GREAT! Someone else had said that they must be loaded if I saw them in the stool. They are about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Maybe a white to yellowish color. I had a fecal done and it came back positive for ascarids. I volunteer at a sanctuary and have taken in a great number of pigeons. I assumed that before handing the birds over to me, that they made sure they were healthy and well. Considering the fact, they knew I had others at home. In reality, I'm at fault for not quarantine them and treating a head of time. This really sucks. I will purchase the Pyrantel Pamoate first thing in the morning. I don't think the entire loft is infected but not certain. I noticed some of them look awefully fat. That doesn't have anything to do with worms, does it? What are the chances of getting this tackled with the Pyrantel Pamoate? Should I treat them every month for a few months or is that to much?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Janet said:


> GREAT! Someone else had said that they must be loaded if I saw them in the stool. They are about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Maybe a white to yellowish color. I had a fecal done and it came back positive for ascarids. I volunteer at a sanctuary and have taken in a great number of pigeons. I assumed that before handing the birds over to me, that they made sure they were healthy and well. Considering the fact, they knew I had others at home. In reality, I'm at fault for not quarantine them and treating a head of time. This really sucks. I will purchase the Pyrantel Pamoate first thing in the morning. I don't think the entire loft is infected but not certain. I noticed some of them look awefully fat. That doesn't have anything to do with worms, does it? What are the chances of getting this tackled with the Pyrantel Pamoate? Should I treat them every month for a few months or is that to much?


Thats roundworms.
You should treat your whole flock.
If you have alot of birds (I think you said 120?), you can put it in the drinking water.
If you get pyrantel, check the strength of it. The dose for drinking water is 75mg per gallon of water, then repeat in 2 weeks.
Then I would repeat it again in 3 months.
Take their water away the night before so their nice and thirsty in the morning. Give them the treated water first thing in the morning with their feed.
Then make sure you scrape and clean the floor and perches, whereas their going to be passing alot of worms and eggs! They'll start passing them quickly.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Once I give the medicine, how quickly will this mess end? SHould I thoroughly scrape and change bedding everyday for a week or so. I scrape everyday, but change the bedding only weekly. These eggs and worms that pass after giving the medicine, are they alive or dead? I know I have seen worms in their stool, but I don't know if their alive or not. I'm out there every night now with a flashlight, checking the stool under each bird perched, looking for worms in it and quickly scraping. I'm seriously losing sleep over this. I feel like I have to be out there cleaning their mess up immediatly after they make it.
I just bought that "wormout gel" It says to treat birds for 2 days. Should I repeat again for 2 days after 10-14 days later?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Janet said:


> Once I give the medicine, how quickly will this mess end? SHould I thoroughly scrape and change bedding everyday for a week or so. I scrape everyday, but change the bedding only weekly. These eggs and worms that pass after giving the medicine, are they alive or dead? I know I have seen worms in their stool, but I don't know if their alive or not. I'm out there every night now with a flashlight, checking the stool under each bird perched, looking for worms in it and quickly scraping. I'm seriously losing sleep over this. I feel like I have to be out there cleaning their mess up immediatly after they make it.


I worm mine 1st, then clean out all the bedding the next day and put down a *small* amount of bedding. Then change that daily for a week - just replacing with a small amount so I can see what they pass.
When I use Ivermec for worming, I've seen the worms expelled alive! Gross! When I use Pyrantel, the worms are dead. But still gross!


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

YUCK! I hope I never see a worm moving in their poop. Since I've never seen that, I guess I will assume they have been dead. I forgot to mention, when I had the fecal done, it came back positive for ascarids and coccidia. Can I treat the coccidia the same time I'm giving the worming treatment? Like on day 1 and day 2 give the wormout gel. then on day 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 give the coccidia medicine. then day 12 and day 13 give the second treatment of the wormout. I don't know if thats too much or to variety of medication to give about the same time.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Depends what type of medicine you will use for cocci. I believe if it is some sulpha drug, it will be better to wait. Most of the birds are cocci positive and it is not critical if you wait week or two just to stay on the safe side.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

I just mixed up the wormout gel. It seems like soo many pumps for only 1/2 gallon. 2ml for every 320ml. I got 6 320/ml into a 1/2 gallon jug. SO I assume that would be 12 pumps. Each pump gives 1ml. I hope I'm doing this right. I hope I don't kill these guys. I read another article where they said all wormers are TOXIC. I gave mine piperazine-17 last friday. Due to give them it again Dec 25. Now in between that I'm doing the worm out gel. Thats only b/c I've been reading that the piperazine is old remedy and doesn't really work that well. Think its too much? Should I still give the 2nd round of pipe. on friday. It says to treat with the wormout for 2 days.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Janet said:


> I just mixed up the wormout gel. It seems like soo many pumps for only 1/2 gallon. 2ml for every 320ml. I got 6 320/ml into a 1/2 gallon jug. SO I assume that would be 12 pumps. Each pump gives 1ml. I hope I'm doing this right. I hope I don't kill these guys. I read another article where they said all wormers are TOXIC. I gave mine piperazine-17 last friday. Due to give them it again Dec 25. Now in between that I'm doing the worm out gel. Thats only b/c I've been reading that the piperazine is old remedy and doesn't really work that well. Think its too much? Should I still give the 2nd round of pipe. on friday. It says to treat with the wormout for 2 days.


What is "wormout gel"? What's in it? What's the active ingredient?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Worm Out Gel contains Oxfendazole and Praziquantel. They have high safety margin - no danger of overdose.
0.5 gallons = 1.8 litres = 1800 ml
1800/160=11.25 that means you need 11 pumps for half a gallon.
Deppending on temperature you may leave medicated water 2~4 days.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I suggest you do not now use both. Unless we have a pharmaceutical expert on here who knows for a fact that it's safe to use different ones in a short timescale, of course. So, if you change over to Wormout, as a layman I would not see much point in then giving the Piperazine again anyway. 

John


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

plamenh said:


> Worm Out Gel contains Oxfendazole and Praziquantel. They have high safety margin - no danger of overdose.
> 0.5 gallons = 1.8 litres = 1800 ml
> 1800/160=11.25 that means you need 11 pumps for half a gallon.
> Deppending on temperature you may leave medicated water 2~4 days.


Thanks plamenh, not familiar with that one.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

WOW! Today is the second day with the "wormout gel". The stuff said to treat for 2 days. I am finding worms like crazy in the poop. Some poop have as many as 8-9 worms in it. The 1st day I only scraped. The 2nd day, I have began to remove all the bedding. I feel bad b/c its cold and I think the bedding helped them to stay warm. Tomorrow, I am going to thoroughly scrub and disinfect. Then lay very little bedding down. How long do the pigeons pass worms and eggs after treatment? Will the worms and eggs keep coming out for days? ARe these worms dead in the stool? Sorry so many questions. I don't see them moving around so I'm assuming their dead.


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