# Yellow laced Satinette Pigeon



## zeeshanqamar (Apr 15, 2011)

http://img813.imageshack.us/i/asdads.png/

Here in that above link is a picture of a brown laced satinette pigeon. Now i am experimenting a few things here and trying to make that brown into a yellow. I have many ideas and have already started to make some. First someone refered to me and said, take a opal pigeon and cross it with a yellow satinette and see what comes out. I kindly request you guys to share you ideas. I would just really love to create it somehow.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Hi Zee,

I thought all Satinettes were laced, but realized that there were red and yellow Satinettes that are not laced, but I have also read that red and yellow laced varieties do exist, so it can be done.

I am not sure that toy stencil can 'punch' through recessive yellow and red like it punches through on the blue and brown based birds. I've never read anything that references the toy stencil and recessive red. It is worth a try breeding a recessive yellow to laced bird and inbreeding the offspring to produce recessive red and yellow laced. This is going to be a very difficult program due to the recessive nature of red and dilute and at least one of the toy stencil genes.

I think that it would be worth a try to produce an ash-yellow Satinette. The toy stencil should (theoretically) be able to punch the pattern through on these birds. The only way to find out would be to try. It would definitely be easier to produce ash-yellows than recessive yellows, and you should be able to sex the young early due to the sex linked nature of both ash-yellow and dilute. 

I do not think dominant opal will work though. Dominant opal on recessive red does not necessarily cause perfect lacing. Although I believe some red laced saddle homers do exist. In the oriental frill, the lacing is caused by the stencil genes and NOT opal. Using opal might work, but the lacing / stenciling might not be show quality.

It would be much easier to find a yellow laced bird and bring it into your breeding program. I would find the project of creating the coloration myself too daunting, but wish you luck in the endeavor. 

Kind regards,
Rudolph


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Is it recessive yellow you want, or t-pattern ash-yellows? Ash-yellow would bring the best results. Yellow and red Satinettes are actually ash, not recessive.  But like I said before, dominant opal t-patterns or frill stencil t-patterns will give you the lacing. Dominant opal is carried in quite a few breeds, whereas frill stencil is in very few (mostly in oriental frills).


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Hi Becky,

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Opal does not seem to be the ideal way to produce laced birds, especially in a breed that already carries toy stencil as part of their make up. Adding opal to the mix just seems redundant, not to mention that getting back to oriental frill show type will be all but impossible.

I understand crossbreeding to introduce new genes to a breed, but it would be much easier to find a yellow Satinette and breed from that than to introduce a whole new can of worms and start a breeding program that could take many years. 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. 

Kind regards,
Rudolph


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I know opal doesn't make as pretty of a bird as stencil does. But if I remember correctly he wanted to cross the lacing color over to homers or another breed. So to get the color and keep the bird looking the way it is supposed to, it may be easier to work with opal. Just figured I'd throw the option out there since it does make a lace look in t-patterns and spreads.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Why would toystencil produce the lacing? Doesn't it just dilute the black wingpattern to bronze/white


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

Absolutely stunning bird !!! Makes me want to raise them as well . lol


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

If the intention is to transfer frill stencil to another breed the most expedient method would be to use a dilute recessive red of the recipient breed.
A recessive yellow cock to a frill stencil hen will produce dilute hens and heterozygous dilute cocks, both sexes heterozygous for frill stencil. 
Although the frill stencil gene is a simple recessive, breeding two F1 from the above mating, should result in approximately 25% frill stencil homozygotes.....unfortunately fs isn't quite as "simple" as that! 
Some fs homozygotes show no lacing, after pulling tail or primary feathers two or three times, no lacing appears; apparently these birds will breed as homozygote fs. Consequently the expected/predicted 25% frill stencil phenotype doesn't materialize! Generally lightening at the base of the tail and flight feathers and near the end of the tail feathers indicate whether a degree of stencil expression will appear after the first moult. 
To avoid breeding a large number of birds, that may or may not, be in possession of the required gene combination, an F1 cock should be mated back to the original frill stencil bird. This will increase the percentage of fs//fs homozygotes bred, and although it appears a retrograde step, fewer surplus birds will be produced. This process, two steps forward, one step back is followed until the goal is achieved.

White-barred/chequered oriental Frills are a combination of frill stencil and toy stencil. Frill stencil produces a bronze/pink bars/cheqs, the addition of ts whitens the bars, whether the full complement of ts genes is required, I don't know. Ts may not be a necessary component of the laced, i.e. spread, fs.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't think TS is needed to make laced birds, but I am not sure. I thought FS could be bred to become more white. I have seen FS homers with white on them rather than bronze/pink.


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## zeeshanqamar (Apr 15, 2011)

Mary i wanted to do that with homers but it sounds really hard. Right now i have a yellow satinette and a red bar satinette, do you think by corssing these two i can make a yellow bar satinette.

So basically what you guys are saying for me to get a yellow laced i have to get a cock yellow satinette, cross it with a hen red laced satinette. Then when there chicks get older, i cross the chick cock to the mother red laced satinette.


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