# Pro Biotics



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Hello All:

What formulas or brands do you prefer in a Pro-Biotic, and why? Looking to try something different than the generic product I've used, which is getting old now... Thanks!

Don


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

for how many pigeons..


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

Health Guard or Acidophiles Forte


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Apple Cider Vinegar and Garlic Juice w/ Brewers Yeast have been working well for me. Of course 4 days a week ACV other 2 days Garlic Juice (juju) and Red Cell on Sundays..all of them like a teaspoon to a gallon. I mix them up and keep them in the fridge so when I offer to the birds its cold. Kinda of a nice thing for the birds as hot as its been.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Primilac is probably the best over the counter but alot of us are using Kefir now and I think that is even better yet. There is a thread on kefir on here plus lots of info on the web. I was taking it myself for a long time and it takes care of all digestive problems.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> for how many pigeons..


Oh, lets say 25-30 max. Can't imagine I'll have more than that, as my wife might start blowing the big gaskets that hold her head together...

She's looking at the new coop like, "What is this?!?"

Don


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

ohiogsp said:


> Primilac is probably the best over the counter but alot of us are using Kefir now and I think that is even better yet. There is a thread on kefir on here plus lots of info on the web. I was taking it myself for a long time and it takes care of all digestive problems.


Kefir? Like the liquid yogurt-type stuff? How do you dose/deliver it to the pigeons? Looks like I've got some searching/reading to do. Thx,

Don


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Check out www.healthypigeons.com. I have tryed different stuff from probac from APC, and some stuff from farm and fleet made for all different animals. I have been using the healthy pigeon blend all summer and think it's great stuff. I spray garlic oil on the feed at night and sprinkle alittle of the healthy pigeon on top ,it sticks to the oil so you don't have to mess with the water . I also use apple cider vinegar once or twice a week too.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ERIC K said:


> Check out www.healthypigeons.com. I have tryed different stuff from probac from APC, and some stuff from farm and fleet made for all different animals. I have been using the healthy pigeon blend all summer and think it's great stuff. I spray garlic oil on the feed at night and sprinkle alittle of the healthy pigeon on top ,it sticks to the oil so you don't have to mess with the water . I also use apple cider vinegar once or twice a week too.


Thanx for sharing the link...so how much Healthy Pigeon Blend would you sprinkle on say 2 quarts of feed?..I'm trying to gauge how long 3lbs will last if I try this stuff out.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I've had good results with Probios for horses. The local feed store carries it and the price is reasonable - 240 gms for under $10.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I got my healthy pigeon at the start of old bird racing and I still have half of it left . I don't put it on the feed every day but try to give they every other day , seams to work for me.

I had to use an empty season salt shaker to spread the product . I put three sprays of garlic oil and three or four shakes of healthy pigeon in a tray of feed , just enough to see the sprinkles on the feed. You can use safflower oil too and that you can buy in your local food store , that around $7.00 for a small bottle. The garlic oil I got was from Global Pigeon Supply. Just a note, apply the mix when the birds are flying outside or it will blow away when shaking it on the feed if the birds are flapping or flying in the loft when feeding.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

cbx1013 said:


> Kefir? Like the liquid yogurt-type stuff? How do you dose/deliver it to the pigeons? Looks like I've got some searching/reading to do. Thx,
> 
> Don



I am not talking about the pasturized store stuff. I am talking about getting real kefir grains (culture) and growing/making your own kefir daily. 1 tbs per gallon of water or put it on the food. You drink some also and see the effects for yourself.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

ERIC K said:


> ...Just a note, apply the mix when the birds are flying outside or it will blow away when shaking it on the feed if the birds are flapping or flying in the loft when feeding.


I just got a mental picture of the first time that happened to you.  They do get excited at feeding time!


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

1 tablespoon of Apple cider vinegar and a drop of Clorox every day and sliced garlic cloves every couple weeks and global multi mix in the water for five days 4 times a year 3 years with no problems and my birds fly


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

ACV is NOT a probiotic, Clorox is NOT a probiotic, Global multi mix is NOT a probiotic, Red Cell is NOT a probiotic.
And while I'm at it, Garlic OIL is not even close to being as beneficial as CHOPPED RAW GARLIC. It's fine if you need something to wet the feed but don't be fooled into thinking it's as good. 
I see a lot of sheeple on this site.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> ACV is NOT a probiotic, Clorox is NOT a probiotic, Global multi mix is NOT a probiotic, Red Cell is NOT a probiotic.
> And while I'm at it, Garlic OIL is not even close to being as beneficial as CHOPPED RAW GARLIC. It's fine if you need something to wet the feed but don't be fooled into thinking it's as good.
> I see a lot of sheeple on this site.


As one of those "sheeple" I like what Ad Schaerlaeckens says... here is his article 

Save money 



In modern pigeon sport it is hard to be successful if you ignore a vet or medication. 

Some visit a vet before the racing season, before the breeding season and before the moult, others pay him a visit every month or even every week. 

There are people that only go to a vet in case they think their birds have a problem or after a bad race and some have a vet that comes to their place every month or so to check the birds. Among the fanciers that hardly ever pay a visit to the man in the white coat were Klak and I myself. What the late Klak did and what I do is try to prevent problems. 



REASON 

- I do my best to keep canker under control myself. 

It sounds like bragging but I think that I can see if birds need to be treated. That is when babies do not grow up nicely and get skinny and when they produce watery droppings that stink. 

When the bodies of old birds are not tight and the throats not clean (slimes and threads in it) I do not go to a vet but medicate. 

- I never treat against coccidioses, since that should not be a problem in a dry environment. 

- For me paratyphoid is no problem either, since I do not take any risk and treat every fall for 2 weeks. 
- Respiratory problems I try to prevent by cheap medicine in winter. The name is oxygen. I get it by putting birds in the open regardless the weather. 

- Adeno/Coli has seldom been a problem either. 

Long way back some of my babies suffered from Coli and what I did was… nothing! Some died, sorry for them, I might have saved their lives by medicating, but I ended up with birds that are less vulnerable. 



DISCUSSIONS 

This does not mean that I never talk to a vet or to scientists. 

In wintertime I participate in many seminars and so do many vets. 

Mostly I enjoy seminars but what I enjoy most of all is the hour or the dinner that follows. 

Then the members of the panel gather, including the vets and/or scientists. 

It stands to reason we talk health problems and medication of pigeons then. 

But it is kind of strange to notice that those people, who are supposed to be knowledgeable, disagree on so many things. 

Especially vaccinating against paratyphoid is controversial. 

To my surprise I have never met a vet or scientist so far that does not promote (apple) vinegar though there is no money in it for him or her. 



VINEGAR AND GARLIC 

The biggest health problems that birds face are salmonella, canker and Adeno/coli. 

Their pathogens mainly spread through the water and many of those ‘wise guys’ agree a very good disinfector is vinegar. 

Vinegar is a natural enemy of many bacteria, it keeps the digestive system in balance and it even has a positive effect on the digestion of the feed. 

It is supposed to be a better disinfector than bleach (chloride) against salmonella. 

I heard a scientist say that fanciers would save money by putting apple vinegar PLUS garlic in the water frequently, since you would make much antibiotic treatments later on superfluous. 

A provision of ample, clean, fresh, pathogen-free drinking water that is regularly replaced is important, because infected water is one of the most common ways of pathogens to pass from one pigeon to another till the whole flock is infected. But water with some vinegar in it should even be better. 



A BELIEVER 

A very knowledgeable scientist once stated that systematic spraying the walls with slightly vinegarish water is far more effective than whitewash like so many do. 

Those that know my articles or me must have noticed I am sceptical on most additives that are promoted so aggressively in the media. 

Once I believed in yoghurt and buttermilk as a means to stop Adeno coli (young bird disease) but I lost confidence. 

I never believed in vinegar either. 

But after many discussions with vets and scientists and after I met that guy that had hardly any problems with Adeno and canker since he put vinegar and garlic in the drinker frequently I began to doubt and turned into a believer, since I cannot imagine they are all wrong about products that are not profitable for them. 




© Ad Schaerlaeckens


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

cbx1013 asked about PROBIOTICS not everything else we put in the pigeon. Ad also says that you must CURE Trichomonas first BEFORE you start the vinegar. Also notice that Ad said nothing about using a brand of garlic juice, he uses GARLIC. I too use ACV and garlic but I also use Health Guard.

BTW, if you're going to be a sheeple you might as well follow the main shepherd.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> cbx1013 asked about PROBIOTICS not everything else we put in the pigeon. Ad also says that you must CURE Trichomonas first BEFORE you start the vinegar. Also notice that Ad said nothing about using a brand of garlic juice, he uses GARLIC. I too use ACV and garlic but I also use Health Guard.
> 
> BTW, if you're going to be a sheeple you might as well follow the main shepherd.


Cool..So how is that Health Guard working out for ya? I will remain the black sheep of the flock thanx


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

I love it. I've used it on my pigeons and a few *****es that were bred. I've noticed a difference in both pigeons and dogs. I'm a firm believer in keeping the natural, good, bacteria up.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> I love it. I've used it on my pigeons and a few *****es that were bred. I've noticed a difference in both pigeons and dogs. I'm a firm believer in keeping the natural, good, bacteria up.


Seeing as your more of a health nut then me...how would you say Health Guard compares to Healthy Pigeons Blend? http://www.healthypigeons.com/What is HPB.html

I've been thinking of trying something new...I have had a 2003 hen now for over a month and she still looks like she's been through the ringer..I would like to say I recovered her appearance naturally


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

Health Guard is only a probiotic. I know nothing about that other stuff.

How do you administer your garlic?


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> Health Guard is only a probiotic. I know nothing about that other stuff.
> 
> How do you administer your garlic?


I bought a small jar of minced garlic at the grocery store..I pour off the top "juice" into my gallon jug and mix it with water. Then I replace the "juice" in the jar with fresh water and shake it up. So far this little jar of minced garlic has lasted me 2 months.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

Take a clove or two and put into a mini food processor. Add a little water and blend until the water looks like milk. Add this to your water container and fill it up with clean water. You want the birds drinking when you put it down so make sure they are good and thirsty.
I think you'll notice a difference if you use FRESH garlic done this way.
It has always been stressed to me to use fresh garlic, not minced garlic from a jar or garlic juice.

here's an excerpt from wikipedia:"Raw garlic is more potent; cooking garlic reduces the effect. The green dry 'folds' in the center of the garlic clove are especially pungent. The sulfur compound allicin, produced by crushing or chewing fresh garlic produces other sulfur compounds: ajoene, allyl sulfides, and vinyldithiins. Aged garlic lacks allicin, but may have some activity due to the presence of S-allylcysteine."

This complements everything I've ever been told about using garlic for my animals. You want them to consume as much as possible within the first hour of crushing and mixing it. The longer it sits the weaker it gets.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> Health Guard is only a probiotic. I know nothing about that other stuff.
> 
> How do you administer your garlic?



I take garlic cloves break them apart take a knife and cut slices in them maybe 4 to a gallon and drop them on the water for a day. Do you realy know whats in all that stuff you buy.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> Take a clove or two and put into a mini food processor. Add a little water and blend until the water looks like milk. Add this to your water container and fill it up with clean water. You want the birds drinking when you put it down so make sure they are good and thirsty.
> I think you'll notice a difference if you use FRESH garlic done this way.
> It has always been stressed to me to use fresh garlic, not minced garlic from a jar or garlic juice.
> 
> ...


Are you saying 2 gloves to the gallon "chopped" in a food processor or pureed in a blender intill you get that "milky" consistancy?..Seems to me that stuff would be too strong and the birds won't drink it. I would prefer less garlic and the birds stay hydrated then this.


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## suepahfly (Mar 19, 2010)

Right now, for the ybs, I'm putting 2 cloves in a 1.5 gal. bullet fountain. I use one clove for my breeders because they're not being taxed right now. I'm no Martha Stewart so my terms may not be right, I use a mini food processor, add water and put it on high until I get a milky color.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

suepahfly said:


> Right now, for the ybs, I'm putting 2 cloves in a 1.5 gal. bullet fountain. I use one clove for my breeders because they're not being taxed right now. I'm no Martha Stewart so my terms may not be right, I use a mini food processor, add water and put it on high until I get a milky color.


Cool, I'm always willing to do better then before so I'll try it. Thanx for the tip.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

TerriB said:


> I just got a mental picture of the first time that happened to you.  They do get excited at feeding time!


Just a note, if your adding probios to the feed use EVOO first to the seed then add the probios powder and it will stick to the seed and not be wasted!


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