# Quarrantine



## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I've got a question... well, questions... on quarrantining new birds...

1) How long?
2) How much room... i.e. relating to #1 : Would one or two new birds be "okay" in a large wire dog crate for 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 weeks with probably no fly time?
3) Any meds? I was thinking maybe a round of something like Vita King 5 in 1 (i.e. treatment for cocci, canker, wormer, probiotics, vitamins), but no antibiotics unless they display something like a cold or ecoli.

Any other thoughts... comments... ideas... advise... smart remarks??


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*I've got a question... well, questions... on quarrantining new birds...*

*1) How long?*
Depending on the situation, e.g., very ill bird, canker, injury, etc., I isolate any newcomers for at least 3-4 weeks.

*2) How much room... i.e. relating to #1 : Would one or two new birds be "okay" in a large wire dog crate for 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 weeks with probably no fly time?*
I isolate each bird by themselves. If I get two in, they go in two separate cages.

*3) Any meds? I was thinking maybe a round of something like Vita King 5 in 1 (i.e. treatment for cocci, canker, wormer, probiotics, vitamins), but no antibiotics unless they display something like a cold or ecoli.*
I think the opinions vary regarding initial treatment. Others more experienced with incoming will be able to answer this questions more accurately.

Cindy 

I need to clarify my reply to number 2:
In a situation such as Frank & Jessie, where they both had identical wing injuries & they were obviously a mated pair, I kept them together. Thinking twice, it would again depend on the situation, but as a general rule of thumb, I isolate separately.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A holding pen will work for you. yes a large dog kennel should be ok. you can isolate the birds for 10 to 14 days. treat worm and pmv. Then add vitiams to water. That should be good. You need to remember your young birds will be getting older and then able to breed. So space will be needed. If you plan on raiseing young birds next year.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

AZ, Lee,

Thanks for the input.

I've been resisting the urge to bid on this one particular 03 Grizzle Hen on www.pigeons4sale.com.

As for my birds. We'll 2 of the 8 have paired up and if nothing else, will probably lay "soon"... as I've talked of in other threads, they've been courting and he's been topping her since at least 7 Nov. As for the remaining 6... other then one or two of them interrupting the pair, they don't yet seem to have any interest in "hooking up", in fact, of the remaining 6, I'm not even 100% sure which are cocks and which are hens, I have some guesses, but nothing for sure. I guess, out of the remaining 6, I'm wondering if possibly all of them are cocks, but I doubt it. I'm thinking (guessing) of the remaining 6 that are still young / haven't paired, I've got 5-Cocks/1-Hen or 4-Cocks/2-Hens, but I seriously doubt it would be 3 & 3.

Anyway, that's why I was thinking of picking up another hen or two, but I'm trying to keep telling myself to wait another 4 to 6... 8?... months to see what I've really got in hand now.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

It's rare that I use Baytrill, but if I bring a bird home which is also rare, I'll use it. Everything here gets vaccinated for PMV and worms aren't a real issue in my area but I worm for giggles about every two or three years. It's my opinion that once you get established you want to curtail bringing birds in or you will end up paying the piper sooner or later no matter how healthy they look, generally those starting out end up with at least some health issues due to different birds from different lofts, that is atleast until a balance within the loft happens and immunitys get on the same page. Immuntitys run different from loft to loft for different strains of the same diseases, take PMV for instance, just because you vaccinate doesn't mean you won't get it as there are various strains of it. To be honest when I do bring in the rare bird from outside I'll loose sleep over it and this is even knowing the health history and the conditions of the loft that I might bring a bird from every couple of years. Too many times I've seen lofts devisated from outside birds. Be carefull !!!!! is the best advise I can offer. A closed loft is the best way to keep a healthy loft. On the same note, if I visit another loft I will not go near my own loft untill I've had a shower and changed clothes and shoes.
Scott


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

I must agree with Scott on the introduction of new birds into the loft, use caution ! Before I introduce a new bird into my colony, it is vaccinated with everything, wormed, and given a series of medications for several weeks. It is then given a booster following the prescribed waiting period. This will take about a month.

Then the bird is started on a series of probotics and prebotics. Did I forget to mention, they are also dipped in a solution to kill various parasites. When this bird is introduced into my colony, I want the bird in top condition. Even then, I cross my fingers. In my case, I own some exotic blood lines, which has cost numerous tens of thousands of dollars to put together. So I may be a little paranoid.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*Oops!!*

Sorry about that.  
My reply was in reference to isolating rescued (ill & injured) pigeons.


Cindy


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Canker*

I can now appreciate why people recommend to breed your own flock if you can. I merged birds from four different sources, all of which took excellent care of their birds. The biggest problem I found was canker. I've done a lot of reading on this and here is my understanding of the situation. Wiser heads feel free to post corrections.

Members of your resident flock have established a level of natural immunity to the strains of canker to which they have been exposed. Babies raised by your birds would be gradually exposed to the organism when fed by their parents, allowing them to achieve a level of natural immunity to those strains.

Bring in new birds from a different source with their own strains of trichomonas and you risk both sets of birds becoming ill with what is, to them, a new strain. In addition, stress increases the rate of trichomonas shedding so it makes sense to treat all birds for canker before they are allowed to intermingle. Even then, it will take a while for the birds to re-establish an equilibrium. 

The different strains of trichomonas cover a range of virulence from benign to deadly and new ones constantly emerge. From what I've read, it is safer for a bird to have a low-level of a mild strain which provides a buffer against other, more malignent, strains. You treat to knock down the high levels of canker to where your bird has a chance to establish a natural immunity he can live with.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Everyone,

As someone who just feeds the ferals and thankfully, hasn't been required yet to do any kind of intensive rescue or rehab....I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading the posts offered by the real "loftkeepers" such as Warren, Scott and TerriB.
I may not always know what you're all talking about, but the subjects discussed are so interesting...it is like overhearing a couple of doctors discussing treatment methods in technical terms: you may not know everything they are referring too, but it sure is fun to listen and try to figure it out...also sounds impressive to boot! LOL
Okay, keep it up...it's fun and informative to us "laypeople."
Thanks
Linda


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

True quarantine practised completely correct when introducing new birds is a period of 90 days. This may seem extreme but this is the amount of time necessary to ensure that no parasitic, bacterial or viral problem is present. It takes this amount of time for certain life cycles, incubation times of pathagens to run their course or show themselves. Most people can successfully get by on a 4 week quarantine period. All new birds should be treated for worms, cocci, canker and if they haven't been vaccinated, vaccinate them.


Brad


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## Jerry (Nov 21, 2003)

Zig,
I usually quarantine for 2 weeks. I do have to admit that I have cut that short when I have recieved a bird from a loft that I know well and can be assured it is healthy (some will say you can never be asssured). Then worm them and vaccinate for PMV unless, again, I KNOW it has already been done because I know the breeder. 
PS I see you have not been able to resist the young grizzeld girl any longer! LOL (She is a beauty)


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Lots of good advice already posted, but here's my routine: I try to keep down the number of new pigeons I bring in for the reasons already posted, but once in awhile new birds come along that you just can't resist!  As a standard practice, I quarantine new birds for four weeks and I have used a large dog crate more than once when I had no other space available. First I spray them for lice and mites. Then I treat all newcomers for canker, coccidiosis and worms, plus vaccinate for PMV and Salmonella/Paratyphoid if they haven't already been vaccinated. I put them on Global's Respiratory Plus after they finish the 3-in-1 med (with a couple days on vitamins in between.) Once they are done with the medications, I put them on the same probiotic and trace mineral supplement system that the rest of my pigeons get. This seems to go a long way toward keeping everyone healthy.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Thanks all for all the great posts and knowlege. I need to get a notebook and start keeping notes on all the great info here.

I was asking about quarantine because I had bid on this bird :

http://www.pigeons4sale.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=Auc&item=1101563562

... but I've been outbid and I don't think I'm going to up-the-bid to try to win her.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

... ah, the heck with it! I bid on her again!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Zig, 

Too bad you lost the bid on that hen...she is a stunner. There are some pretty expensive birds on that site. I was surprised to find out that show Runts can fetch upwards of $1000.00 as well. Not quite the hundreds of thousands that some racing pigeon lines will get but still. Pigeons are big business it seems. I only paid $40 each for my runts but they are worth much more than that to me How many birds do you have now in your loft....12? I've lost count. LOL . Better place a double order of wooden eggs from Jedds pronto


Brad


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

PP2002,

I've got 8 birds in my loft.

1) Big-B (a.k.a. Big-B*tch)... a BC Cock
2) Honey... a BB Hen
3) Jane... a Mealy Bar, my guess is Cock
4) Gonzo... Pied BC w/ white flights, not sure on this one's sex, but I'm leaning towards it turning out to be a Cock
5) Big-Bird (not to be confused with Big-B)... a pied BB with some white flights, my guess is Cock
6) Budgie... a RC, my guess is Cock
7) Speedy... a Silver Bar, my guess is Hen
8) George... a BC, my initial guess on "him" was Cock, but maybe a Hen

I had one more, John, a BB. Not sure of his/her sex, but I lost him/her about a week ago when I decided to try to let him out to fly... he hung around for maybe an hour, but I haven't seen her since.  It was a stupid mistake on my part to let it out being so strong of wing and never having been out before. The boys and girls I have left will be prisoners and I'll fly their young when I can start with them really young and know exactly how old they are.

So far, only Big-B & Honey have "hooked up". They've been courting and he's been topping her since early Nov, but no eggs yet.

I'm guessing Big-B, Honey, Jane, Gonzo, Big-Bird & George are all 5 to 7 months old... I think... maybe a few months older, but not younger... I got Honey, Gonzo, George, Jane, Big-Bird & now the MIA John from Foy's the last week of Sept. They're all banded 2004, but exactly when they were hatched, I don't know; from pictures I posted here when I first got them, someone guessed them at about 3 months, then. Budgie and Speedy are younger, I got them as Squeakers back the first week of Oct, they've got older bands on them, but they were definitly Squeakers then. The guy who sold me Budgie and Speedy threw in Big-B... didn't know it until I cracked the shipping box... he came reportedly to be a Hen and has a 2002 bad on, but they guy said she (he) was a 2004 too... but I'm also about 90% sure he's a Cock and not a Hen, so who knows.  

I dunno, mybe I'm stupid bidding on this other Hen, but she's gorgeous and I'm thinking I should add one more Hen??


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Sorry to hear you lost a bird. You should be able to home these birds, just give them more time to acclimate to your loft and their home. As you said, after they have young, this will be better for both the adults and the young. I didn't realize that you had so many males and few females. Yes, you should definitely get more hens, even if it's not that white one on pigeons4 sale. If they are young like you said, then they are just coming into sexual maturity now. You're going to have problems down the road with males fighting over the limited hens available and this could be very disruptive to your loft and breeding. More females in a loft is much easier than more males. Ideally, you should have equal cocks and hens so nobody is left without a mate. 


Brad


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, I did re-bid on the bird again...

http://www.pigeons4sale.com/cgi-bin...item=1101563562

... but I got out-bid again. I don't think I'll bid again. The price is getting a bit steep when you add in another $40 for shipping.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Too bad you got outbid--she is a gorgeous bird.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*bump*

... for Traci SSS


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