# found a feral with pmv. Need help



## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm not an expert in caring for pigeons by all means but I am trying my best to care for a feral I found 2 days back left to die on the road afflicted with PMV.I brought the bird home with me and started it on calcium +electrolytes immediately. Since then, the bird has shown considerable improvement. The neck appears steady now though the right wing is still paralyzed but the bird started to eat on it's own today. I need advise on the following 1. how long do I keep the bird on calcium? 2. is it alright to give it multivitamin and probiotics along with calcium? Can all be given on the same day? Can they be given everyday in this condition or how many days a week they can be given? 3.can grit be included with calcium? I understand that grit is important to the pigeons for digestion and am worried since I haven't offered it grit at all fearing that grit must not be included when giving calcium.
Thanks for all your help in advance


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How can you be sure this is PMV? It could be many things causing the poor birds illness. Can you post some pictures of the bird, as this could likely be something else. 
What calcium are you giving? The best calcium supplements also have vit. D3, as they need vit D3 to be able to use the calcium. I would give these things on different days. Grit doesn't affect calcium and can of course be offered at the same time. Here we can buy hi-calcium grit. How much calcium are you giving. It can be over done.


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Jay,

Appreciate your reply!

I'm sure that this is pmv 'coz all the symptoms of PMV matched with the bird. I've been giving it liquid calcium gluconate. The calcium has made a drastic change with the bird's twisted neck, it's now able to keep the head up steadily without drooping down and the bird appears brighter now able to feed on it's own and looks forward to it. I'm giving just a drop of calcium mixed in about 30 ml water. The bird has been having a few sips of this water several times a day. Besides, the calcium I also give electrolytes .The right wing is paralyzed though but I am happy that the bird started to preen itself today. I'll post the pictures as soon as I can figure out how to post them. This is the first time I'm looking after a pigeon with PMV, that's the reason I wanted the advise with supplements as I've basically no idea what to give when?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What are the symptoms?
What do the droppings look like?
Many people have come on thinking their bird has PMV, when it has something else with some of the some symptoms as PMV. Some things with the same symptoms and be treated. PMV is a virus and must run its course. If mistaken for PMV when it is something else, then the bird doesn't get medicated, and sometimes dies, when it could have been helped.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you very much for helping him!


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> What are the symptoms?
> What do the droppings look like?
> Many people have come on thinking their bird has PMV, when it has something else with some of the some symptoms as PMV. Some things with the same symptoms and be treated. PMV is a virus and must run its course. If mistaken for PMV when it is something else, then the bird doesn't get medicated, and sometimes dies, when it could have been helped.


Hi,

When I brought the bird, it had the following symptoms:
1.Trembling wings and paralyzed especially the right
2.Neck drooping down
3.wet and liquidy greenish poop 
4.quietness,loss of appetite and reluctance to move
Infact, when put in the basket for the night it leaned against it. Now after administering calcium, electrolytes and water soluble vitamins I'm seeing lot of changes in the bird but still the wings tremble at times and appear paralyzed. Though it's able to stand on it's feet, does not have the strength to stretch. It eats on it's own and preens too. I've attached 2 photos the first is of the second day after giving electrolytes and calcium. The second is of the poops. Would appreciate all your advise .


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

cwebster said:


> Thank you very much for helping him!


That's the least we can do for these beautiful yet helpless creatures. I find it a great joy to be able to help them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those can be symptoms of many other things. Just because he does not use his wings, does not mean they are paralyzed. Could mean he is ill or injured.
With some of those symptoms, he could have Salmonella or canker.
You say you saw quite a difference in the bird after the calcium and vitamins. That would have no effect on any of these, including PMV. That would have an effect on calcium or other vitamin deficiency.
Usually PMV birds don't necessarily lose their appetite, they just can't pick up the seed, so often need to be hand fed.
Does he drink a lot?

Possible to post pics of the bird and his droppings? He may need to be treated with medicine.
No pictures came through.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

pidgiefriend - as Jay3 says, what you described so far could be anything, but these are the symptoms

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/wordpress/?page_id=163


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

pidgiefriend said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've attached 2 photos the first is of the second day after giving electrolytes and calcium. The second is of the poops. Would appreciate all your advise .


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Those can be symptoms of many other things. Just because he does not use his wings, does not mean they are paralyzed. Could mean he is ill or injured.
> With some of those symptoms, he could have Salmonella or canker.
> You say you saw quite a difference in the bird after the calcium and vitamins. That would have no effect on any of these, including PMV. That would have an effect on calcium or other vitamin deficiency.
> Usually PMV birds don't necessarily lose their appetite, they just can't pick up the seed, so often need to be hand fed.
> ...


Hi Jay,

I've reattached the pictures. The bird's picture of the second day after giving it calcium and electrolytes waiting to be handfed. Head straightened up so it appears fine in the picture. Sorry I did not take the picture on the first day after I brought it I was scared whether it would even survive the night. He does drink a lot. Thanks for all your help.


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

John_D said:


> pidgiefriend - as Jay3 says, what you described so far could be anything, but these are the symptoms
> 
> http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/wordpress/?page_id=163


Thanks for that link John. That's exactly how the bird appeared when I picked it up from the pavement.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pidgiefriend said:


> Thanks for that link John. That's exactly how the bird appeared when I picked it up from the pavement.


You say _"that's exactly how the bird appeared when I picked it up from the pavement."_

What is exactly the same? You didn't see him fly or land, or throw seed. You said his head was hanging down. The droppings are not that of PMV. The head hanging down is not enough to say he has PMV. He looks in bad shape, so the head hanging down would be normal for a very sick bird. Because he is not flying, does not mean his wings are paralyzed. Just means he is sick or injured, or weak. Electrolytes and calcium would not make a vast improvement if it were PMV.

If he is sick or injured, then chances are he hadn't been able to get to water to drink for a long time. So among other things he may have been badly dehydrated. That would explain why he improved quite a bit after receiving the electrolytes. If not vet, and actually, they don't seem to be all that great with pigeons there, I would treat for canker with Metronidazole, and a wide spectrum antibiotic for 10 days. I would use Baytril and Metro. That will cover most things. Not all, but most. And if he did have PMV, it isn't going to hurt him. But we are wasting time, going back and forth about whether or not it is PMV. Treat him to be sure.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

pidgiefriend - please describe ALL the symptoms this bird has/had.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

pidgiefriend said:


> Hi,
> 
> When I brought the bird, it had the following symptoms:
> 1.Trembling wings and paralyzed especially the right
> ...


Poor bird. How is he doing with the TLC? Are there other symptoms he has shown?


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> You say _"that's exactly how the bird appeared when I picked it up from the pavement."_
> 
> What is exactly the same? You didn't see him fly or land, or throw seed. You said his head was hanging down. The droppings are not that of PMV. The head hanging down is not enough to say he has PMV. He looks in bad shape, so the head hanging down would be normal for a very sick bird. Because he is not flying, does not mean his wings are paralyzed. Just means he is sick or injured, or weak. Electrolytes and calcium would not make a vast improvement if it were PMV.
> 
> If he is sick or injured, then chances are he hadn't been able to get to water to drink for a long time. So among other things he may have been badly dehydrated. That would explain why he improved quite a bit after receiving the electrolytes. If not vet, and actually, they don't seem to be all that great with pigeons there, I would treat for canker with Metronidazole, and a wide spectrum antibiotic for 10 days. I would use Baytril and Metro. That will cover most things. Not all, but most. And if he did have PMV, it isn't going to hurt him. But we are wasting time, going back and forth about whether or not it is PMV. Treat him to be sure.


The picture of the pigeon's appearance in terms of his neck as shown in the link matched with the pigeon I brought in. That was his state. That's what I meant by 'exact'.Yes, he was throwing seeds when I offered it and was hand fed. I forgot mentioning that point. Can Baytril and Metro be given at the same time for a period of 10 days? I reckon you're referring to these two as antibiotics?What's the dosage? I assume I need to stop giving calcium, multi vitamins and electrolytes while giving the bird baytril and metro? Thanks Jay for all your help


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

cwebster said:


> Poor bird. How is he doing with the TLC? Are there other symptoms he has shown?


He appears alert and in much better shape now. He eats 3-4 times a day now.I've shifted him to a cage so he has more space to himself and try to keep the cage covered with a towel so he can be warm but the weather is pretty hot here. Is it advisable to keep him warm in a hot climate? Please let me know. Thx


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

John_D said:


> pidgiefriend - please describe ALL the symptoms this bird has/had.


When I brought the bird, it had the following symptoms:
1.Trembling wings and paralyzed especially the right
2.Neck drooping down
3.wet and liquidy greenish poop 
4.quietness,loss of appetite and reluctance to move
Also, was throwing seeds the next morning when I offered it. I brought it the previous night in a dilapidated state, the bird was very weak and leaning on my hands and was opening it's beak and all I could do was to offer electrolytes and calcium and pray for the bird's survival.

Now, the bird seems to have made a considerable progress. Appears bright, stands on it's feet and stretches itself apart from preening a couple of times. Appetite seems to have much improved as it's feeding 3-4 times a day. I don't know whether I should put the bird out in direct sunlight as it's pretty hot here. Would appreciate your suggestions.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The pic in the link John showed was not all that bad. A sick bird can lay his head down also. A PMV bird will often put his head on the floor and totally twist the neck so that he is upside down. However, other things can cause that too. And all pigeons throw seed. That's normal. When a PMV bird does it, it is totally different.
I would give the Metronidazole at 50 mg once daily, after feeding, as sometimes it can make them vomit if given on an empty crop. I usually give the Baytril in the morning, and the Metro at the end of the day. Some do give it at the same time, but I don't. Do you know what he weighs? If not 7 to 10 mg once a day will do.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pidgiefriend said:


> When I brought the bird, it had the following symptoms:
> 1.Trembling wings and paralyzed especially the right
> 
> Trembling wings can be fear or excitement.
> ...


I would not put him outside now. Let him heal. Like I said, I would treat the bird. But he doesn't need to be outside now. If he were entirely well, then I would say he could go out for short periods of time, but must be able to get out of the sunshine. Even blocking part of the cage to give him some shade. But I don't think you have a cage anyway, and he can't be put outside in a box. If he should suddenly be able to fly, and he takes off, and he isn't ready yet, (which he surely isn't), then he would end up the same way again, and probably die out there. There is no reason he needs the sun right now. You said it was very hot outside. He would be much better off inside where it is more comfortable.


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## pidgiefriend (Mar 21, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I would not put him outside now. Let him heal. Like I said, I would treat the bird. But he doesn't need to be outside now. If he were entirely well, then I would say he could go out for short periods of time, but must be able to get out of the sunshine. Even blocking part of the cage to give him some shade. But I don't think you have a cage anyway, and he can't be put outside in a box. If he should suddenly be able to fly, and he takes off, and he isn't ready yet, (which he surely isn't), then he would end up the same way again, and probably die out there. There is no reason he needs the sun right now. You said it was very hot outside. He would be much better off inside where it is more comfortable.


Jay, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking out your time to advise me patiently. Yes, I do have a new unused cage and this little guy is the proud occupant. He seems to be picking up well. I will not hesitate to seek your advise again if requiredYou've been such a great help. God bless


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