# Undigested beans discharged



## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Found quite alot of undigested beans in Beanie's poop this morning. Is this normal for pigeons or is it a sympton of some other underlying problems?

This bird has chosen to eat only green beans although grit and pigeon mix are offered. I have also added some multi-vits in her water which she's drinking. She's currently on some neuro medication for her injured wing & leg.

BTW, the good news is she can now stand/walk wobbly on her feet. So it was not a total loss of use of her injured food. But her wing has not really showed any improvement.  

Suzanna


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## rosey_love (Mar 21, 2004)

I dont know if this is ok or not. My birds dont have this kind of thing happend but my birds do choose the green beans out of corn, grain, brown beans, and these white type of peas. 
If your birds wing has not showed improvment it may always be like this. I have two pigeons that have bad wings. One that cannot fly very well and the other is just a little baby now that we helped named Buddy because his parents did not feed him after a week. He now has droopy wings and does not want to even try flapping them but they are getting better. I am afraid he wont ever fly very well in the air though with the others so this is not good for him but he is still as happy and is gaining so much weight!!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Suzanna,

undigested seeds in the droppings is not good.
How much does she eat, does she drink water and does she eat the grit?
If she is eating only the beans that is not good either.
Could you remove the beans from the mix and let her eat the rest? 

I don't know if the medication might have something to do with it.

It might take a little longer for the wing to heal, just give it some more time.

Reti


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

She takes about two tablespoonful of green beans a day, drinks water but I don't see her picking at the grit. I've tried giving her the pigeon mix only but she refused and did not eat the whole of that day. As she's still recuperating from her injuries/trauma, I thought it would be best not to stress her further by starving and give her whatever she wants but supplemented it with some vitamins. 

She has perked up quite a bit over the last week. Except for the undigested beans, her poop is greenish/white - pretty firm.

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi SueC,


...maybe the 'neuro-meds' are affecting the semi-autonomic functions of her Gizzard, in which their Seeds are masitcated...or something is.

Was she passing any whole Seeds previous to the meds?


Which is not a digestive problem, but a pre-digestive organ not functioning.

Whole seeds not masticated will pass trough anyone's digestive system, Bird or Mammal...

Maybe just try nutritious 'Soups' for now...?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hmm.. could be the medication she's taking since she was discharged from the vet's. Ever since she came to stay 2 weeks ago, there were only one or 2 days when small amount of undigested beans were discharged. But the amount I saw this morning was quite huge. I think I will take her off her meds for a day or two and see how it goes. Will also check with the vet on the side effect of this neuro-stuff.

And Phil, what is this nutritious 'Soups' that you're talking about? Please share your receipe! Thanks!

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi SueC,


Ohhhhh...'Soups' as I call them, young 'Squeaker' food or Baby food...of food for going through a catheter for dorect feeding into their Crop...

Kay-Tee, LeFaber's, Loribush powders...Graham Cracker made into powder, Ground Seed made fresh in a kitchen blender ( not for Catheter, too coarse)...powdered Greens, pro-biotics, whatever inspiration suggests! Mixed with Water, served 'tepid' in some method or other, 'Baloon', rubber-gllove-finger on the end of a syringe, hollow side of a baby-bottle-nipple...small shot glass...

"Soups"...

You know, the shell or husk of a Seed will resist digestion, it protects the Seed untill the Seed is somehow in an environment in which it wishes to germinate...and the huck will preserve the Seed to be left somewhere in the poops of whoever ate it. One of the ways Plants propigate...

If you were to crack the Seeds just a little even, it might help your little one digest them if for some reason their Gizzard is not doing it's job of mashing them after hydration in the Crop...

No need to smash them, or brake the Seeds into pieces, but just to mash them one at a time with something hard, a Salt Shaker Bottom or Soup spoon maybe, to break them a little while they remain whole and merely cracked a little.

If the Seeds shatter, they might be old and stale, you could try some, chew them up, and see. Old stale Seeds are not so good...

Good Seed is 'chewy'...not brittle...

So, a nice chewy Seed, if mashed a little, will split open without shattering, and this might help them digest them...

Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Oh, I see ... that's soup. Will do some cracking this evening. Hope this will help the birdie. 

I thought all pigeons take some grit but this fellow does not. Is there any way to entice it? 

Thanks!
Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna, 


You could just put a little pile of Grit there for them to peck if they like.

Grit helps their Gizzard masticate their food, their Seeds...to chew them in essence...the Gizzard you know, is a stong muscle-pouch, once Seeds have swelled, softened and hydrated in their Crops, they go to their Gizzard...whose lineing is kind of segmented into small hard spots like a hard Horn or Beak material which in theory renews just like Nails or Horns or Beaks do, and, the hard surface of it, in effect, squeezes and sort of chews up the hydrated Seeds...

They can manage without Grit so long as the Seeds are good quality and so on, but might eventually have kind of fibery poops maybe...no big deal...maybe this one's Gizzard is needing a rest for some reason for a while...

Some Vitamine-Mineral suppliments in their food or water would be good, certainly, especially since they are recouperating-convelescing from injuries...and I think you are doing this. ( Sorry, I could go back and read from the beginning! I am too tired right now...lol...) 

I forgot, is this a young Bird, or...?

Anyway, sometimes their appetites get dim for some reason...when they are on meds or getting over some injuries.

If yours has a good appetite, this is a blessing...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info.

Will monitor her closely and hope that nothing big pops out!

Cheers,
Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh my....just noticed you are in Singapore!

Now, what chance of posting some images of your Bird?

I deal with feral Pigeons, 'Columbia Liva', and yours might be some other variety for all I know!

The 'Wood Pigeons' of England and elsewhere have some important differences from those I deal with...

Too...it is allways nice to see those Birds whom others are dealing with...ministering to, raising...

Nighty-night...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*Beanie pic*

Here's Beanie - I know nothing about her - species, age or sex. Sigh!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

SueC,

At the base of the upper beak is the "ceres". Usually, on mature pigeons it is white. Beanie's looks a bit young--just a few months old. Of course, I don't know anything about pigeons in Singapore. Do most of the pigeons you see around have a white section on their top beak?

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue and all, 

This looks just like a feral/wild pigeon to me, they are everywhere afterall except the poles. The eyes are coloured but the cere hasn't turned white, odd. Usually this happens around the same time. He's probably fairly young though still. Sometimes, a greasy, dirty cere is a sign of respiratory infection. Sue, how is his breathing...any rattles, wheezing or heavy sneezing? What about any nasal discharge?

I see you're feeding him mung beans...very good


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi All,

She is certainly one of the wild pigeons around here. Many of them have greyish white patch above their beaks, so I guess they are the adult birds. 

Beanie's breathing is fine - no rattles, wheezing or nasal discharge. Phew!

She likes mung beans only and I'm still trying very hard to get her to eat the other grains. Tough! 

Suzanna


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Maybe if you tried soaking other seeds in water with green food coloring she would get confused and eat something else. A bean is a legume and for humans, we can get all the essential amino acids in a combination of beans and corn. I have no idea what difference there is between what's essential for us and what's essential for them. But, it seems to me that Beanie should get some other things even if you have to force them down her.

How's her wing doing?

Pidgey


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Will be heading down to the shops tomorrow to get some other grains which hopefully are to her liking as she has refused corn and fresh peas. Hopefully over the weekend, I can spend more time coaxing her to eat other stuff.

She did not attempt to use her injured wing so I guess the improvement is not great. She only flaps her other good wing. 

Spoke to the vet last evening who advised that putting a pin in her wing may not guarantee that she can ever fly again. I'm not sure if I want to put Beanie thru' surgery again. She already had one early this month to close up the ripped off skin on her chest. At that time, the vet (one of the very few who deal with birds here) who did the op, was not very optimistic about the pinning and had not gone ahead after assessing her condition.

I'm really unsure of what's next. I suppose I can leave her as it is and hope that the wing will heal over time. This was what happened with another wild pigeon which I rescued long time ago. One of the wing was broken but after a few years, it managed to heal on its own. I am hoping that the same will happen to Beanie especially if she's a young bird.

Suzanna


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that leaves the question of the beans making it through without breaking down. We're going to have to research that.

Pidgey


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Suzanna,

After all Beanie's been through, her feathers seem in great condition! So maybe somethings are doing well.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Well, I certainly hope that the rest of her is alright! 

Presently I'm just worried about her digestion system and that she's not getting a proper diet as she should if she's only surviving on beans and vitamins-added water. 

Good news is she ate quite a huge amount yesterday and her poop was normal.

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna,

She is a very pretty Bird...!


Good to hear there is improvement now.

I tried to get some Mung Beans at the store today, but I will have to try some other stores, since my usual one did not carry them...

White Safflower Seeds are nice, if you can get them there...make sure they are chewy, and not dried out.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is a website where you can see the various legumes, seeds, and beans in a good pigeon seed mix:

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm

A variety is always best, but the pigeon may have to develop tastes for other things.

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks for all the info!

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tressa,


Ooooo! Nice "Seed" link...

I just read through them...interesting...

Those White Safflower Seeds are pretty good then for calories I guess...and moreso, the Linseeds or Flax seeds...as well as all the rest in their ways.

I have been eating more and more of my Bird's Seeds as incidental snacks. I used to do this all the time years ago, then kind of forgot about it. They taste good and are better than say cookies or something I'd say...

When they are 'good' you know they are "good"...if dried out or stale, one can tell instantly. They all taste very nice in fact when whoesome.

Supposedly there is a place way across town here which carries some kind of Pigeon Mix...I will visit them soon...

Youngsters in theory would reauire a higher protean ratio I believe, than would Adults. With adolescents in-between...

Laying Hens might need more also I s'pose...

I never thought to approach their Seeds in this light, but, merely made sure to provide nice quality Seeds they would eat, and, that I could get. Mostly these have been so called 'Wild Bird' mixes sold at some of the Grocery Stores in 25 lb stout Bags. 

These tend to be mixes of White Millet, Milo, Oat Groats, some Sunflower in the husks, Wheat...pretty nice overall.

Some feral convelescents of course, given this mix, elect certain Seeds as their favorites and neglect the rest. Usually it is the Milo, sometimes the Sunflower and Milo, sometimes the White Millet...Oat Groats are seldom not eaten, regardless of their principle favorites...

I have tried them also on Black Lentils being added to their Seeds, little round things they are...some seem to like them, others ignore them...

I am interested to try various Peas, as I know my Birds years ago loved them...

Phil
Las Vegas


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