# I bought my first 2 pairs of pigeons



## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> hey guys how is it going? i just bought a pair of white homers and a pair of rollers, as im a beginner please give me some advice on how to train them.
> Thanks


how old are the homers? and where are you located?


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Hi, jang786. Buying your first pigeons is really exciting stuff - I have only had mine for 3 months so I identify heaps. First of all, how old are your birds and have they been trained to home to their old loft or not? This factor will determine the steps you take in training them.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> the homers are 9 months old i believe as the breeder i bought them from told me and the rollers are 4 months, and i'm located in stockton, Ca


the homers may not stay if let out as they are too old, if you want to fly homers best to get squeakers which are young birds 35 or 40 days old, and train them. the rollers can be settled to your loft, but not sure how long they need to stay locked up, perhaps a month or more.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

.................. old.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> so that means even if i train them longer they will not come back  isnt there any chance? what about the rollers they are 3 to 4 months old.


the rollers can be resettled, the homers may just try to fly back to the pre owner, that it why the call them homers, so they may leave the second you let them out or decide to leave in a month or more, but chances are good they will try to go back "home". only train young that you hatched at your place or get young birds 30 to 40 days old and train them to your loft.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> but the breeder told me that he never took any of his birds out and said that they are not trained and even if they go back he will give them back.if i do train how long should i train them? and how long should i keep them inside the loft and outside?


they don't need to be trained, they already know how to home as that is what they will do if let out. they are conditioned to get in shape to beable to fly longer distances to get home. so training is for them to trap and things like that and get in good condition to fly home from a distance, so it is very hard to rehome homers that are 9 months old, you will be going to pick up you birds from the preowner alot. if that is ok with you then do it. but they could and may get lost in the process if not in good condition to fly to their prehome.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> but the breeder told me that he never took any of his birds out and said that they are not trained and even if they go back he will give them back.if i do train how long should i train them? and how long should i keep them inside the loft and outside?



When the breeder told you he never "took" the birds out, he may, in theory, have been telling you the truth. However, if his loft has any type of aviary or windows, then the birds were "out", whether he took them or not. 
Bottom line is, you were hoodooed..........any reputable pigeon person who raises/sells homers would not tell you that birds this age can be homed or rehomed...........
If you let them out, the chances of them staying are slim to none, IMO. Is it POSSIBLE? Yes.......anything is possible, but once they are out, if they DON'T stay and DON'T know where home is, whether it's your home or the one they came from, then they're on their own. Never having had to "find" a way to survive, within a few days, they'd probably starve to death. 
The rollers however, are a different story. They don't "home" like homers do. Homers are called homers for a very good reason.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

It all depends on how devastated you will be if the homers don't come back. If that is a risk you are willing to take, then you could try flying them after they have been well settled to your loft for a couple of months or so. If you are unwilling to take the risk, then I suggest that you keep this pair locked up and breed your own little flying team from them...safer, and it really won't take very long to get a few babies and start training them. Most of all, let them get used to you and their new home for a while - I remember when I got mine, I really freaked them out in the first few days by over-handling them - I couldn't resist!


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Probably around 6 months, I gather - my pair started breeding a little before that (end of December) and are now about to lay their 4th pair of eggs. It won't take long!


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

here is pic of ...............


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> by training i meant if i let them go and make them come back... so that means there is no chance that i'll be able let these pigeons go make them comeback? do i just keep them inside the loft then or what?


If you want to keep them, they should not be let out.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

della said:


> It all depends on how devastated you will be if the homers don't come back. If that is a risk you are willing to take, then you could try flying them after they have been well settled to your loft for a couple of months or so. If you are unwilling to take the risk, then I suggest that you keep this pair locked up and breed your own little flying team from them...safer, and it really won't take very long to get a few babies and start training them. Most of all, let them get used to you and their new home for a while - I remember when I got mine, I really freaked them out in the first few days by over-handling them - I couldn't resist!


It's now about how devastated WE are.......it's about what it does to the PIGEON, when they get out in the big world and have no clue what to do or where to go and the slow death from starvation that is a real possibility. WE get over it. THEY don't. 
Pigeons get lost every day. I loose pigeons every year. However, I do all I can to train them and take care of them and prepare them for what I want them to do. And I do all of that at the appropriate age and 9 months isn't the appropriate age.
As far as breeding..........again, IMO.........a bird needs to be at LEAST 9 months old and preferably, 1 year old before allowed to breed. Keeps the breeder healthy and you'll get healthier babies. 
Once these new birds settle in, it wouldn't hurt to let them raise a few babies. By that time, they will be 10 or 11 months old anyway.


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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

I don't believe it's possible to tell the sex just by looking - you can only be sure that they are a breeding pair if they have bred before i.e. if the female has laid an egg and if the male has mated with a female. Did the breeder have experience with this pair raising young before, or did he just predict that they were male and female? If it was just prediction, then he could be wrong.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## della (Jan 29, 2009)

Lovebirds, thanks for your advice - I appreciate your experience. I didn't know that it was bad to let the birds breed early - actually they took it into their own hands, so to speak. I wondered if I was taking a risk offering advice this early - perhaps I had better just watch and learn for a bit longer!


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

della said:


> Lovebirds, thanks for your advice - I appreciate your experience. I didn't know that it was bad to let the birds breed early - actually they took it into their own hands, so to speak. I wondered if I was taking a risk offering advice this early - perhaps I had better just watch and learn for a bit longer!


No.........you're fine. I wasn't actually speaking to you about your birds. That's your business and it sounds like things went ok. While we're on the subject though, I wouldn't let birds of any age raise MORE than 4 rounds of babies. I normally stop at 2, MAYBE 3......but never 4. (Don't want to hijack this persons thread.)
Yes, birds WILL mate when they're young. I've had 4 month old hens lay eggs many times, but I just don't let them raise babies at that age. They get dummy eggs and get to "practice".......LOL
It's sort of like a 15 year old having a baby. They CAN, but they SHOULDN'T.....


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> i just saw the roller male do the dance to the female.. and they kinda scared right now tho


Time will tell, you will know who is who sooner or later,


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> one more question do i leave the light on at night inside the loft? so i guess i'll just keep this pair not let them out and breed them.


No. No need for lights. Let them have a natural sunrise and sunset. Do you have pictures of your loft?


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

No hurry. I was just wondering. I think you've made the right decision with the homers. They will be fine and your new babies will be fine and give you lots of enjoyment.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I guess you plan on putting up some perches? If I was you, I would try to get an aviary built and attach it to the front. Looks like a nice size building.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

It is possible to rehome homers, but it is indeed risky. I've been rehoming/resettling them. You don't have much birds to take the risk. I am thinking of breeding those homers for now. I think they can breed now. I have 4 or 5 months old right now that just laid eggs, but I took them out. You can then learn about breeding, then training those babies.

The rollers can be resettled in 2 weeks if you let them see their surroundings such as if you put them on aviary or settling cage. I think it easier for rollers to get lost especially if your surroundings are full of trees or other tall stuff.

My advice is to breed your birds for now because you don't have much. If you get more and perhaps work with the breeder, then you can take the risk. My risks at my place are two kinds: getting lost and getting killed/eaten by hawks/falcon. If either your birds got taken, then you got nothing. It is breeding season so have fun!


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

*Foy's Pigeon Supplies* sells perches. Here is a link:

Foy's Pigeon Supplies - Perches


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> can someone please tell what to use for their nest or the little box


here is a list of all kinds of info for you. do some reading and perhaps that will answer some of your questions and maybe even raise more. happy reading.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

jang786 said:


> here is pic of white pair they look young and i dont know why but for some reason they both look like they are females?


The one left to the left looks like cock and the one on the right is the female.

That's my guess from looking at them.

Rehoming or resettling is a very hard thing to do. I had to learn the hard way and I will not try it again. Specially now that I have breeders from good bloodlines.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Keeping them inside the loft is good but you need you teach them how get back into the loft. What I do is put them in a settling cage that covers the trap area. This allows them to be outside and eliminating the chance of them flying off without knowing how to get back in. I use food to call them back in through the trap. When they get the hang of going in through the trap to get back into the loft for food and water then you can take the settling cage off and let them roam around the yard and get to know their surroundings even better. I believe with rollers you can do this after 2-3 weeks, but don't quote me on that. As long as the rollers can see the loft I don't think you'll have a problem with losing them from a fly away. With my homers I waited for a month to a month and a half until I let them out of the loft without a settling cage. These 3 birds that I tried to rehome did very well and I had trained them to come back to the loft from 20 miles away. I thought that I was the exception to the rehoming theory of not being able to rehome pigeons. I called myself one of the lucky ones to be able to rehome old birds. To make a long story short, I loft flew them one day and they were chased away by a hawk and I never saw them again. It's been about 2-3 weeks since I've seen them....and I don't expect them to come back anytime soon. From now on I will not try to rehome old birds again.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You need a settling cage. It just home-made cage with just wires around it that you put on a landing board so that the birds can't escape while trying to memorize their surroundings.


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## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Check this link out, maybe watching some of his videos might help you? 

http://www.pigeontv.com/


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The oldest I have rehome homers is about close to 2 years old. When they took off I thought there were gone for good because they just took off and went west. But they came back after circling somebody else's house for about 1 hour.

Just breed your pigeons for now. There is also something fun in breeding. I mean you can have trainable young birds in 2 months if you start breeding now.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> thanks for the advice, one of my homer pair is inside the nest and i saw them mating last night how long does it take them to lay the egg after mating? do i need to put the grass inside bowl?


8 to 10 days for eggs usually. Get some LONG pine needles if you can. The birds love them and they help keep buggies off the birds. You can usually find them at landscaping businesses. A bundle is about $5 to $7 and will last forever. Just put a pile on the floor of the loft and the birds will build their own nest.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> o and where can i buy the pine needles?Thanks.





Lovebirds said:


> 8 to 10 days for eggs usually. Get some LONG pine needles if you can. The birds love them and they help keep buggies off the birds. *You can usually find them at landscaping businesses. *A bundle is about $5 to $7 and will last forever. Just put a pile on the floor of the loft and the birds will build their own nest.


I already told you.............LOL


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Renee is right. It is about 8-10 days. Definitely put some nest bowl. They will love it and go inside the bowl and dance in circle. Pine tree needles is free at my house because we have a pine tree. You may even find some pine trees at your place and collect the needles. We have a school here with lots of pine trees and pine needles are all over the place.

Renee,
I noticed some timothy hay at Walmart. I wonder if it is possible to use those. I also saw pine shavings of different sizes at the pet sections. I think they name them bedding or something. They even have cedar shavings, but may not be good for pigeons. What do you think? I've only used pine needles and small branches at my place.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

RodSD said:


> Renee,
> I noticed some timothy hay at Walmart. I wonder if it is possible to use those. I also saw pine shavings of different sizes at the pet sections. I think they name them bedding or something. They even have cedar shavings, but may not be good for pigeons. What do you think? I've only used pine needles and small branches at my place.




I've never used timothy hay...........don't think I even know what it is. I have put the shavings in the bowls, but not the cedar shavings......just the wood chips/shavings..........I think it's better to give the birds the materials and let them build their own nest. Gives them something to do and gives ME something to watch..........LOL
Sometimes they don't build the best nests, so they might need a little help from us...........


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> is it ok if i use pine shaving for nesting?


you can put the pine shavings in the nest bowl, and then put some pine needls down in the loft in a corner or something and they will use those to build a nest, timothy hay is just hay that is a bit more fiberouse or stalky than say soft hay, thats all, they would use it. I have given mine some orchard grass hay and they liked it. but pine needles seem to be their favs.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jang786 said:


> i want the pine needles so bad but i could'nt find any!!!


well, did you try a landscaping place? or collect your own. you can get the small bags of hay for pet rodents, but it will be about 4 or 5 bucks, when you could buy a whole bale from a feedstore for 7 and it last you till next year!, need to search a bit harder, try the feedstores and lawn and garden centers, or tractor supply. yellow pages.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Gather some small twigs then and put it inside the bowl. The way I see we put those bedding for warm and traction (to prevent splayed leg?).

If you can't find pine needles, maybe you can go to a park where there are pine trees and gather the needles there. I obviously don't know where you live and whether you have pine trees.

In the wild I think pigeons will gather anything to make nest--say twigs, even their flight feathers, etc.

The behavior you see is male territorial (and food) response.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

its so fun to watch these pigeons build their nest!!! male is bringing the stuff and female is sitting inside the nest making it while male keeps on bringing more and more  and finally my new pair found their nest but without the bowl


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> its so fun to watch these pigeons build their nest!!! male is bringing the stuff and female is sitting inside the nest making it while male keeps on bringing more and more  and finally my new pair found their nest but without the bowl


yep, it is fun to watch them. They have to select JUST THE RIGHT piece too.........LOL
Are you talking about the container that's in the picture you just posted? They really need a bowl or one heck of a nest in there. That plastic will be way to slick for the babies.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jang786 said:


> yes and its funny how they drop it while trying to put it inside the bowl lol yea thats the one im talking about will they be fine without a bowl tho?


What else is in the bottom of that big container? I think you should put a bowl in there. 
See, baby birds can get what we call "splayed legs" or "spraddle legs".....and that happens when there's no traction for their feet/legs while they are growing and it causes their legs to grow out to the side rather than under them.......you don't want that to happen. 
Either a bowl or get two bricks and put in the corner of the container to make a square and fill it with some wood chips or something.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

We would love to see pictures if you get a chance to take some!


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)




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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## Mackbirds21 (Sep 23, 2008)

they will start breeding in prob 3 months or so maybe a little sooner depending on the exact day they hatched or got weened. Pigeon Mail Me and send me the picks i can help you out a lot=) Were are you located??


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Just use a simple trap like those in Redrose loft. I call it flap trap.

http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm

http://www.redroselofts.com/step_10.htm


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Nice birds and nice nestboxes. Those nest boxes are fine to me. When I got my first birds, they started mating the same day and a week later or so I ended up with eggs. Apparently your birds love your place that they started mating right away. They feel safe and comfortable. It could also be that perhaps you have animal (stock) sense so the birds felt welcome. Either way good luck in your breeding. Your education seems rather fast.


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## jang786 (May 22, 2007)

............... homers?


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*breeding*



Lovebirds said:


> No.........you're fine. I wasn't actually speaking to you about your birds. That's your business and it sounds like things went ok. While we're on the subject though, I wouldn't let birds of any age raise MORE than 4 rounds of babies. I normally stop at 2, MAYBE 3......but never 4. (Don't want to hijack this persons thread.)
> Yes, birds WILL mate when they're young. I've had 4 month old hens lay eggs many times, but I just don't let them raise babies at that age. They get dummy eggs and get to "practice".......LOL
> It's sort of like a 15 year old having a baby. They CAN, but they SHOULDN'T.....


Renee, when you say four rounds, I know it seems like a dumb ? but are you saying per year


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Pigeons come in many different sizes, shapes and weights.

With respect to rounds, yes, that is per year. One round can give 2 babies. If you breed 3 rounds , then you can get 6 babies. I usually breed around 1 or 2 rounds myself per year. I like to control the population unless my birds get taken by hawks, then I breed more to compensate.


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*rounds*



RodSD said:


> Pigeons come in many different sizes, shapes and weights.
> 
> With respect to rounds, yes, that is per year. One round can give 2 babies. If you breed 3 rounds , then you can get 6 babies. I usually breed around 1 or 2 rounds myself per year. I like to control the population unless my birds get taken by hawks, then I breed more to compensate.


 Thans for the reply on that, I understand the over population part but I was worndering about there health. I have pairs that just do not stop, most of the eggs never hatch for some reaons but that is ok with me. If there is a major health issue though I can and will seperate them but they won't be happy >Kevin


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

pattersonk2002 said:


> Thans for the reply on that, I understand the over population part but I was worndering about there health. I have pairs that just do not stop, most of the eggs never hatch for some reaons but that is ok with me. If there is a major health issue though I can and will seperate them but they won't be happy >Kevin


yes, per year is what I was talking about.
Now, whether you separate your birds or not is up to you. Most fanciers that race or show their birds DO separate during the year when they are not paired and raising babies. I do. My birds are separated from about mid-March to Dec. every year.
In a loft situation where the birds know that they will be cared for and fed, a lot of pairs WILL lay and nest all year long. IMO, it's healthier for the hens to get a break from laying eggs. However, there are some hens that will lay eggs while paired to their mate (cock bird) and then when you separate them, they pair up with another hen and lay eggs anyway. Not a lot you can do about that, but it's usually only a few hens. ALL of them won't do this.
Now, someone will come along and say "the ferals aren't separated" and while that is true, a ferals life span is usually about 3 to 5 years too. I don't know that very many of them live to be 10 or 15 years old, so how do we really know what kind of issues they would have if they lived that long? 
Our birds kept in a loft can and do live 15 years and even more. 
It's not absolutely necessary to separate...........and as far as them being "unhappy"..........for a day or so, maybe, but don't get this idea that they sit around a "pine" for their beloved mate for 9 months out of the year. Doesn't happen. 
Now, if you've got a problem with fertility, that's a whole other subject. Are you SURE that you have hens/cocks mated? Two hens will mate up in a heartbeat, especially if there's not enough males to go around. Also, the age of the birds plays a part in fertility as well as the amount of daylight and the weather...........lots of things could cause infertile eggs.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Your birds seem really happy with their loft. Good luck!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

*i got new pigeons too*

hey man i just got 6 pigeons from this one farmer guy i got 2 homers 2 rollers and 2 tumblers the rollers were young and i think one of em had a desease or something it just died today =( but witht he other ones i have no idea how old they all are i got them about 4 days ago and they are pretty scared of me so after about a month should i let the 1 roller and the 2 tumblers out and not let the homers out then or what should i do??


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## pigeonman1212 (Apr 3, 2009)

*i got new pigeons 2*

hey man i just got 6 pigeons from this one farmer guy i got 2 homers 2 rollers and 2 tumblers the rollers were young and i think one of em had a desease or something it just died today =( but witht he other ones i have no idea how old they all are i got them about 4 days ago and they are pretty scared of me so after about a month should i let the 1 roller and the 2 tumblers out and not let the homers out then or what should i do??


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