# I need some advice on 2 pigeons!



## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

2 weeks ago, my sisters' friend (who works at a vets) phoned my sister and asked her if we wanted a pigeon (i think it's a wood pigeon). The vets couldnt find anything wrong with it, so tried to release it 3 times! but he just stands there! If you throw him into the air, he makes no attempt to flap his wings - just splats on the floor! He looks really healthy and eats like a pig, so i dont know what to do with him - i dont want to keep him cooped up!

As for the other one, well when we went to the vets to get the above pidge, they asked us if we wanted a baby, so we thought "why not?!" Again, he's been eating fine and we just assumed that once he was weaned, he could be released (that's what the vets told us), but i've noticed that he spends a LOT of his time sat down. He stands up to run away from us when we try and catch him, but then IMMEDIATELY sits down. Is this normal? Im not sure of his exact age. he was still quite fluffy when we got him (2 weeks ago), but he's lost all of that now (he's still a lot smaller than the other pidge though). 

They're both living together and get on really well. We've been feeding them wild bird seed, pigeon corn, bread (soaked) and bits of apple. Is this ok?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'd love to let them go.

Thanks very much. Lou. x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Molly,

Neither of them sound ready for release yet. Perhaps the older one has a bruised wing or something? The younger one sounds too young still. Can you post photos?

Where are you? They might benefit from a few weeks in an aviary.

Cynthia


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

hi.
Yeah, i can post photos how do i go about doing this, what kind of photos would you like.
I live in runcorn cheshire but iam moving to preston next week. Is the food ok we are giving them?

from louise


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Preston is excellent because one of our moderators, Nooti (Helen) is just down the road in Blackburn and could have a look at them for you.

I know so little about woodpigeons! I was advised to feed mine on defrosted peas and corn. I feed the ones in the park with mixed corn and was suprised to find they loved the apple bits that I had put down for the blackbirds. I will ask Alison to visit and advise as she is experienced in woodpigeon care.

Photos will help us work out how old they are. When you post go down to "manage attachments", that will allow you to post a photo but they need to be compressed. If you don't have a programme that compresses you can e-mail one to me and I can compress and return.

Cynthia


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

mollymurphy said:


> 2 weeks ago, my sisters' friend (who works at a vets) phoned my sister and asked her if we wanted a pigeon (i think it's a wood pigeon). The vets couldnt find anything wrong with it, so tried to release it 3 times! but he just stands there! If you throw him into the air, he makes no attempt to flap his wings - just splats on the floor! He looks really healthy and eats like a pig, so i dont know what to do with him - i dont want to keep him cooped up!
> 
> As for the other one, well when we went to the vets to get the above pidge, they asked us if we wanted a baby, so we thought "why not?!" Again, he's been eating fine and we just assumed that once he was weaned, he could be released (that's what the vets told us), but i've noticed that he spends a LOT of his time sat down. He stands up to run away from us when we try and catch him, but then IMMEDIATELY sits down. Is this normal? Im not sure of his exact age. he was still quite fluffy when we got him (2 weeks ago), but he's lost all of that now (he's still a lot smaller than the other pidge though).
> 
> ...


Hi Lou, My first thought for the one which sits down a lot is try some avian vitamins, I use Avimix which I get online from VetArk, or your vets may have Nutrobal, give a tiny pinch the size of quarter a sunflower seed heart (that's all I can think of!) daily for a week and see if it helps, I give it in a drop or two of water (0.1ml) in a 1ml syringe right down the back of the throat, extending the neck as you put the syringe down the right side of the bird's throat, past the airhole which is on the back of the tongue (most important to avoid fluids going down there!)
Baby pigeons are normally hand fed a formula which has everything they need to help them grow. Can I ask what you reared him on?
Maybe leave out the bread, not sure about the apple, not given fruit to pidges before. Some petshops sell a pigeon mix for adult pidges which has dried peas and beans and contains all the vits they need and some pigeons will eat greens like lettuce, but mine are fussy with their greens!
Is the other pigeon (Woodpigeon) pale grey with a white stripe on each wing? (And the adults have have pale pinky breast, yellowish beak, and white nape patch and also very nervous of humans, if an adult woodie isn't scared of humans he most likely is concussed!! Also concussion can stop a bird from flying, but if the bird is acting normally apart from the lack of flying, ie not turning in circles or turning his head upside down, or very inactive?)
Have you felt their keel bones (breast bone)? If it is sharp then it means the bird is skinny, there isn't enough muscle on the breast, do their poops look normal, ie not runny or bright green? If a bird has worms it can cause starvation and therefore weakness even though they are still eating a lot. Have you felt their crops, crops can become slow to empty if a bird is ill. Did the vet x-ray the woodie's wings? Breaks can be hard to detect, my vets have missed breaks before. Or the wing/s could be bruised as Cynthia suggested, and he may be ok in a week or so. Another possiblilty is that the woodpigeon could be a young one and just needs an aviary to build up the flight muscles if he hasn't flown for 2 weeks. And how do his feathers look, are the tips of the feathers intact on the wing and tail, does he appear to have any missing wing feathers?
Have you checked in their beaks for something called Trichomoniasis (canker) which a lot of pidges get, look for white lumps in the throat.
Photos would be really helpful, of the whole bird/s so we can see their feathers etc and their wings/legs!
Another thing I give to baby pigeons which have problems standing is liquidised soaked cat biscuits, (I have to tube feed it), if their diet lacked protein when they were tiny then this can help. If you want any more info on any of this please don't hestitate to ask, you are doing a great job there looking after these 2 pidges, well done!!
Catch you later, shame I don't live nearer to you! Hope this all makes sense, I'm very tired!!

Take care,
Alison


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Louise
Sorry I missed you on Messenger last night. I must have just gone to bed. Left computer running to download something and found your message this morning but you were offline by then.  
Can't really advise on either bird without examination but I see you are moving up to Preston next week. That will save us both a trip to Manchester to meet up!  
Sounds like you are doing ok with them. When you are settled in Preston let me know and I'll bob over and look at them for you.


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Hiya.
Thanks everybody for your help so far!
We never hand-reared the baby - he was already eating by himself when we got him. They'd both been at the vets for a week - they didn't seem too interested in either of the pigeons and were going to put the older one to sleep. So i doubt that will have x-rayed him!
I'm still not sure of their breeds - im guessing now that one's a wood pigeon and one's a stock dove. You'll have to look at the pics though! Speaking of which...i've just been outside, taking pictures and have been TRYING to post them, but cant do it! My dad's at work at the mo, so i'll get him to do it when he comes in.
The pigeons are living in a spare rabbit hutch that i've got, but they're in the run on the garden at the moment. I've noticed that the baby cant walk properly - he limps and spreads his wings when he walks. I had a look at his legs, but cant see anything wrong. Any ideas? The older one holds his left wing in a funny way. Ive taken a picture of this, so i'll post it later.
I doubt that he's concussed - they're both pretty scared of us and dont spin in circles or anything.
I've got to go to the stables now, but i'll do a full investigation of them later! Check their crops, wings and legs and throats. Oh, and see about going to a pet shop to get some vitamins.

Thanks everyone.

Lou. x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Lou,

Sometimes youngsters suffer from lack of calcium . While at the pet shop see if you can get some liquid calcium, the baby would probably benefit from a couple of drops. Otherwise oyster shell grit, or grind up some cuttlebone.

Cynthia


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Right, here are the pics from this morning. I'm not much of a David Bailey, so i didnt know what angles to take them at! I had to hold the pigeons, because they were throwing a fit every time i bent down to take the picture! If these are of no use, then i'll try and get some more!

Oh, and would anybody be able to explain to me what a 'splayed leg' is? And how do i know if this is what is wrong with the baby?

Thanks. 

Lou. x


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Hi Lou, both woodpigeons! The right one is an adult, the other is a juvenile, the adult woodie's right wing looks like it is hanging a bit low, it may have been broken, could your vet check this, or would he not have a clue?! Could he do an x-ray? I can't see their legs properly. Splay leg is caused by babies not getting enough support from the nest as a baby, so that the legs are pushed out to the side, sometimes look bow legged, rather than being beneath them as they sit in the nest. I wonder though if the younger one is more likely to have had a broken leg, coud the vet check this, do an x-ray, breaks need to be splinted within abut 48 hours of occuring. 

Catch you later,

Alison


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Well, i've just caught the baby and checked him over. His crop's full. Both of his legs LOOK and feel the same - no sign of swelling or heat or anything. As i held him, he gripped my sisters' finger equally, with both feet, but when i put him on one of the perches, he wouldn't put any weight on his left leg. Could there be something higher up?
I was wrong about him losing all of his baby feathers - he's still got quite a few. Any idea of his age?
Is the adults beak supposed to be red at the top? It's been like that since he got here.
I'll see what i can do about taking him to the vets - a different one!

Lou. x


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

mollymurphy said:


> Well, i've just caught the baby and checked him over. His crop's full. Both of his legs LOOK and feel the same - no sign of swelling or heat or anything. As i held him, he gripped my sisters' finger equally, with both feet, but when i put him on one of the perches, he wouldn't put any weight on his left leg. Could there be something higher up?
> I was wrong about him losing all of his baby feathers - he's still got quite a few. Any idea of his age?
> Is the adults beak supposed to be red at the top? It's been like that since he got here.
> I'll see what i can do about taking him to the vets - a different one!
> ...


Hi Lou,
He's about 6 weeks old as far as I can tell, does he have just a few of the yellow 'hairs' on him?! When leg breaks are recent (happened in the last 2 or 3 days) you can feel it by feeling gently the bone right up the length of the leg to the thigh, the broken bone feels out of alignment with the rest of the bone, may only feel slightly out of alignment so can be hard to detect if you've not done it before, if you put your ear close and move the leg gently where you think there may be a break you may feel/hear a slight grating of bone against bone, or it may feel sharp under the skin, and if it's compound (bone broken through the skin) the break will be plain to see. The foot is unlikely to grip if the leg is recently broken, the leg may hang uselessly or feel a little floppy, or there may still be some movement it but the bird doesn't put much weight on it. Birds can also bash their legs by landing awkwardly for example and may temporarily bruise the leg (for a week or so) and find it hard to put weight on it, but isn't broken. With broken bones a callus (new bone forming) appears within a few days to knit the broken bone together this feels like a hard lump, but you said you can't feel any swellings? And you've compared one leg with the other? Birds have what looks like a backward knee halfway up the leg, this is the hock joint, usually the breaks I see in woodpigeons occur above this joint, and can occur right up on the thigh where the bone comes out of the body, toes can also be broken, again compare with the good foot. Is there one backward facing toe and 3 forward?! There is some grip in the foot you said? Press against the bottom of the foot gently but firmly and see if he can push against your hand. If the leg was broken then it may have healed incorrectly, so it's hard to put weight on it, but if it had healed incorrectly then it would feel different to the good leg, and you would probably feel the callus too. Correct me if I'm wrong somebody, other people here have more experience than me!
The adult's beak is normal.
If anything else springs to mind I will be in touch, and if I find some good info on broken bones.
At least Helen will be able to give you more definite answers next week!

Alison


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Okie dokie - here's a pic of how the baby sits on his perches!
I cant feel anything and the only difference i can SEE is that i THINK his left leg (the sore one) is very slightly paler in colour to his right one. I dont know if this has got anything to do with his injury or if it's his natural pigmentation.
His fluffy 'hairs' are more of a white colour, than yellow.
He moves his leg around and grips our fingers when he's being held (when we've got his weight. He wont push against our hand - just pulls away) He still wont actually STAND on it. 
His toes are all in the same place as they are on his right foot and the same as the other pigeons'.
I'm actually moving to Bilsborrow on Sunday, to do a degree at Myerscough. I dont know how close this is to Bolton?
He's a pain to handle, so I'm going to keep checking, to see if i notice anything else.
The adult's started flapping his wings more, when we go near him, which i think is a good sign.
They're both still out in the run on the patio in the garden, with 3 perches and a little house. Is this ok, or should i put them back in the hutch?

Thanks. Lou. x


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

I've just been shopping and bought some more pigeon corn (but a different type to the others that they've been having), cuttle bone (which i've ground up), oyster shell grit, cat biscuits (which are currently soaking in boiled water) and some fortified calcium concentrate (they didnt have any other form of calcium). I never actually read the instructions on the calcium tub until i got home though, and now im not sure what to do with it! It says "The heart of 'Golden Boost' Formularised by 'Old Hand'" And then it gives preperation instuctions on how to make 'Golden Boost'.
The dosage is "1 dessertspoonful per pigeon, per day (in addition to the a.m. corn)" but im not sure if it can only be fed in the 'Golden Boost'. 
The instuctions say:
"1. Dissolve 2 tablespoons of sugar in a quarter of a pint of boiling water, and allow to cool.
2. Place 2lbs of coarse pinhean oatmeal or groas into a mixing bowl, stir in 2 dessertspoonsful of fortified calcium concentrate, 1tbsp of cod liver oil, and the above mentioned sugar water. Mix throroughly and allow to stand overnight."

Is this just a special recipe or can it be given in a simpler form? I thought that maybe i could just dissolve it in their water, but it's not very soluble and i'm not sure if they'll drink it.

And could anybody please tell me how do i feed the oyster shell grit and the cuttle bone? Just put it in with their corn?

Thanks.

Lou. x


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The grit has to go in a separate dish, so they can eat whenever they need to.
Mixing it with their food is not a good idea as they can get too much of it.

The grit usually has calcium in it and it should be enough, but if you want to add additional calcium, that's fine too, at least short term.

I am not sure about the cuttlebone.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Cuttle bone separate - they'll eat what they need.

I wonder if the 'Golden Boost' is mixed with sugar and cereal (corn meal or oatmeal) because it isn't very palatable. I don't think the exact recipe is as critical as finding something they would eat. Just my opinion.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Lou, how is it going with the woodies? There's not much more I can add until they've been x-rayed, then we'll know what we're dealing with, Helen lives in Blackburn rather than Bolton, hope you will be able to see her, she can most likely tell you what the problems are without the need for x-ray.

Alison


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Hiya.
They're both fine. I forced some mushed-up cat biscuits and water down the baby last night as hit crop was pretty empty. He's still limping and the adults wing is still hanging. I have never actually SEEN them eat or drink by themselves. I'm assuming that they do though, or they'd be dead by now! When we first put them in together, the baby wanted the adult to feed him, so im not sure if he did. How soon are they able to feed themselves in the wild?  They're both really scared of me and flap around their run alot, so they'll only eat when they're relaxed wont they?
I really need an aviary for them - to see how well they can actually fly.
Blackburn's 17 miles from my campus. Is this ok? We'll have to sort something out. My mum and dad could bring them up any weekend. I could probably talk them into taking me and the pigeons to Wild-Life-Line!

Lou. x


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

Hiya.
We brought the pigeons in last night, because of the rain, and when i got hold of the adult, i checked him over and noticed that he's got a scab on his wing. If you can imagine that he's being held with his chest facing you, and then spread his wing, the scab is along the very top of the wing. It looks quite old, small and isn't swollen. This is the only evidence of injury that i can find. He escaped when i was putting them back outside (about an hour ago), but made NO attempt to fly - just ran around. He's been in captivity for over a month - shouldn't he at least be TRYING to fly by now? Does the wing need to be strapped or anything?

As for the baby, well he's still limping. It wouldn't suprise me if he could fly, but i dont want to release him with a bad leg. I'll just have to wait and see if helen (nootie) can have a look at them. 
Oh, and could anyone tell me if the baby will be waterproof, or will i need to spray him?!

Lou. x


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## mollymurphy (Jun 11, 2004)

*Free at long last*

Just thought i would tell everyone that we let both pigeons go today they both flew into the trees, they looked very happy. Thank you to everyone that helped.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Molly, well done! I lost tack of this thread...I am so sorry!

Did Nooti get to see them? Did you spray the little one?

I have a juvenile woodie at the moment. He had severe cat injiuries and developed crop stasis. They ar definitely the most difficult of the three common UK wild pigeons to look after (I have never had to care for a stock dove or a turtle dove)!

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Wonderful news.
Thank you for sharing them.
You did a great job nursing those guys back to health.

Reti


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