# Crossed Damascene and Homer



## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

Have anybody ever crossed Damascene and a homer ? what did the babies look like ??


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I personally haven't but I know someone who has. Basically look like a homer with a rounder head and stouter beak in the F1's.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The one on the left. This is his picture not mine. This is a VERY good expression of heterozygous ice. They can vary a lot and this is the best I've seen.


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

Do the babies get most of the homing abilities back ?


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok thanks alot Becky now i got an idea of what they would look like


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Nkloft said:


> Do the babies get most of the homing abilities back ?


I don't really know. He just keeps birds as a hobby now and probably doesn't even train his homers anymore. This project is something I'm going to start as soon as I can although I would prefer flying Damascenes to Ice Pigeons. I plan on training them at F3 to see what I have to work with and go from there.


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

I have 4 pairs Flying type Good bloodline if you need some in the future let me know . Sorry but not very familiar with F3 what is it ?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

the amount of times crossed out. not sure which way she meant thought. All the first rounds are F1 a 50/50 mix. F2 would be the F1s crossed back to either breed, homers i guess which would make the f2s 75% homers. F3s would be 88ish% homers and so on.


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> the amount of times crossed out. not sure which way she meant thought. All the first rounds are F1 a 50/50 mix. F2 would be the F1s crossed back to either breed, homers i guess which would make the f2s 75% homers. F3s would be 88ish% homers and so on.



ok, Thanks for the information man.


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

MaryOfExeter said:


> The one on the left. This is his picture not mine. This is a VERY good expression of heterozygous ice. They can vary a lot and this is the best I've seen.


The one on the left is one good looking pigeon! that color is nice! what colors would u have to breed to get that color or something close to it?


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## The_Dirteeone (Apr 18, 2010)

I have 2 cross babies right now.I didnt realize untill it was a little late that the Damascene male had courted the young homer.They are pretty,I will see how they fly soon?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

F3 just means the third generation of offspring. I planned to put my F1's together to strengthen the ice coloration, the put the F2's back on racers and fly the F3's. You can put them together however you want, always going back to homers, always inbreeding, etc. As long as they trace back to one of the original parents.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The_Dirteeone said:


> I have 2 cross babies right now.I didnt realize untill it was a little late that the Damascene male had courted the young homer.They are pretty,I will see how they fly soon?


You should let us know how they do


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Pollo70 said:


> The one on the left is one good looking pigeon! that color is nice! what colors would u have to breed to get that color or something close to it?


I agree! You need to start with an ice colored pigeon (Damscene, Ice Pigeon, Galician Silver Highflier those would be the easiest to get in the US). It's good to start with the best looking one colorwise of course. The best cross is to put it on a dirty blue bar (homozygous dirty is preferable).


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey Becky at the moment i only have two cocks that i can work with, Which one should i mate to get iced color off springs ??
Cock #1 









Cock # 2


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

This is an interesting project... hope she tells you soon Im dieing to know!...lol..


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> F3 just means the third generation of offspring. I planned to put my F1's together to strengthen the ice coloration, the put the F2's back on racers and fly the F3's. You can put them together however you want, always going back to homers, always inbreeding, etc. As long as they trace back to one of the original parents.


So your F3s will be 3/4 racer?

What if you were to do a few crosses, Select the best F1's - Put a few of them back to racers, Pick the best f2's and put a few of them to racers, Get some F3's which would be 7/8 racers, Put them together and you would strengthen the Ice at that point. Aslong as you select carefully you should be able to keep all the genes needed for a good ice pigeon, Also you would then be training 7/8 racers rather than 3/4


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Nkloft said:


> Hey Becky at the moment i only have two cocks that i can work with, Which one should i mate to get iced color off springs ??
> Cock #1
> 
> 
> ...


Its a hard one, You want bar pattern for ICE but you don;t really want pied confusing things. I would say go with the bar but select out all the pied ones.

Did the check come from a barred bird, If so it will carry bar and therefore 50% of the babies would be barred.


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

I don't know anything about his back ground, i got him as an old bird.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Nkloft said:


> I don't know anything about his back ground, i got him as an old bird.


have you ever bred a barred bird off him?


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

can we see pics of the damascenes?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

NZ Pouter that is close to what my original plan was, which I will probably stick to and to the other I mentioned with some other birds and observe both. Starting off with some good Damascenes and putting them on long distance birds will help. Since most of my birds are dirty that helps as well.


As for which bird to choose, do you have any other options? Checks are hard to work with and white is advised against. But personally, I would go with the blue bar splash as well. White gets in the way when you can't see the shield or tail anymore to evaluate how well the ice is coming through. The check bird doesn't look dirty, which is bad. The bar is hard to tell because the pied gene turns the beak and nails light.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> NZ Pouter that is close to what my original plan was, which I will probably stick to and to the other I mentioned with some other birds and observe both. Starting off with some good Damascenes and putting them on long distance birds will help. Since most of my birds are dirty that helps as well.
> 
> 
> As for which bird to choose, do you have any other options? Checks are hard to work with and white is advised against. But personally, I would go with the blue bar splash as well. White gets in the way when you can't see the shield or tail anymore to evaluate how well the ice is coming through. The check bird doesn't look dirty, which is bad. The bar is hard to tell because the pied gene turns the beak and nails light.


Yeah good to have a few projects going within projects, that way you can put the different lines together at the end for new(ish) blood

Neither look Dirty to me but this could be added later if needbe

P.S NZpouter has not been on this thread lol


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Sorry, your names are too similar LOL


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> NZ Pouter that is close to what my original plan was, which I will probably stick to and to the other I mentioned with some other birds and observe both. Starting off with some good Damascenes and putting them on long distance birds will help. Since most of my birds are dirty that helps as well.
> 
> 
> As for which bird to choose, do you have any other options? Checks are hard to work with and white is advised against. But personally, I would go with the blue bar splash as well. White gets in the way when you can't see the shield or tail anymore to evaluate how well the ice is coming through. The check bird doesn't look dirty, which is bad. The bar is hard to tell because the pied gene turns the beak and nails light.


Sorry, but I'm not that good with pigeon colors. Could you post a picture of what you mean by Dirty Blue bar. I might be able to get one if i know exactly what it looks like.


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

here is the Pic of the Damascenes


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They are easier to tell as babies. Have you ever produced a baby with black beak and feet? If so, it's dirty  Harder to tell as adults because the feathers do lighten up (which varies a lot, some stay very noticeably dark, others not so much) with the moult and the feet turn red like all the others. The beak stays black though


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> They are easier to tell as babies. Have you ever produced a baby with black beak and feet? If so, it's dirty  Harder to tell as adults because the feathers do lighten up (which varies a lot, some stay very noticeably dark, others not so much) with the moult and the feet turn red like all the others. The beak stays black though



ah i see what you mean, i had one young blue bar that had dark Beak, but i dont know about the feet. but doesnt matter cuz i lost it a week ago. I guess since i only have two choices i'll go with the splash.


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

beautiful birds mine wont be tht nice but there young so maybe after they molt??


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

polo963 said:


> beautiful birds mine wont be tht nice but there young so maybe after they molt??


What breed you got ?


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

getting damascenes on tuesday or monday


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23089&stc=1&d=1330792751

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23090&stc=1&d=1330792766


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

they were sold to me here and are 2 or 3 months old i just hope there opposite sexs!


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## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

nice looking birds. I have 4 pairs of Damascene. i want to keep 2 pairs for breeding and fly the other four but i'm kinda nervous i might lose one since the guy i got them from told me They have a really good instinct


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## polo963 (Feb 25, 2011)

really i was told they didn't. maybe you should breed them all and when there sitting on there second round fly a single parent. but yea i was told they dont do anything, with homing or performing sence


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