# Baby Pigeon needs help



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi There..
Im a new to this forum, and I found my way here by looking for help for this baby pigeon.

This healthy baby pigeon about 12-15 days old has suddenly lost appetite, and seems to be sleeping all of today.

Background.
One morning, I left an empty box with foos (which originally had mangoes), in the balcony of my apartment, and when I returned back home, I saw a pigeon sit in it. I decided not to bother it, and let it be.
Next morning I got a closer look, and found the Pigeon laid 2 eggs.

So I decided to leave some water in a bowl and rice with yellow lentils in another bowl. Same evening I bought a pack of Bird Pellet mix, essentially green and red millets, some tiny black things, oats and some pink and green clay like things.

All seemed well - a week passed, one egg hatched.. and the mother was protective about her child and would rarely leave the box. I kept arranging for bird mix, with rice and lentils in a small dish across the box with a separate bowl for water.

A week later, I realised this baby grew up pretty quick while the other egg didnt hatch yet. Now the mother would no longer sleep at night in the box.. instead a few feet away from it. Every morning when I went to leave water and food, the baby would notice me come, and try to Peck me Bite me.. it was adorable!
I didnt think too much of it, and ensured the daily arrangement of food and water.

> After about 10 days, I read an article on FB of Viruses, Bacterias and especially parasites in dry pigeon poop are critically dangerous to humans as they affect the respiratory tract and keep latent for prolonged periods eventually resulting in all sorts of diseases.
Yes I decided to do something about it. It was my day off from work, and i went to the balcony.. I noticed the mother had flown out.. I saw the box, there was a hell lot of dried bird poop there. I lifted the baby and the un-hatched egg, and kept them in the other end of the balcony.. while I changed the foos in the box, cleant the box.. and cleant the flooring around it with disinfectants.

While doing this, the mother came by and noticed the destroyed nest.. and baby not to be seen.. hovered a bit and flew away.

> *THIS WAS A BIG MISTAKE!!!*

I setup everything .. put the baby in the box.. but unfortunately stamped the other egg.. which released some horrible fluid and very strong and nasty odour. I quickly wiped the fluid, and packed the egg in a plastic bag.. and discarded it.

Now, the mother didnt return that night.
I was concerned about the baby.. and didnt know what to feed it. I took it close to the pellets and water but it refused to eat or drink. I tried for some time but nothing worked.
As it was getting late, eventually ...
*>* I bought some rice flour and Lentil flour from the super-market, made a paste of it in water.. and put it down the babys throat with a giant dropper.

*>* I repeated this the next morning as well, and left for work. I realsed the rice powder quickly solidified on the babys beak and was quite hard.. so I decided not to use it any more.

*>* That evening, I force-fed the baby with rice by opening its beak with my fingers and dropping few grains at a time.

*>* Next morning I noticed the mother was back.. but wasnt feeding the baby. Wasnt even going near the child. The baby pigeon klept on squeaking to its mother continously, but she didnt feed him.. and flew off.

Since force-feeding grains was very time consuming, I decided to defrost some peas .. and try feeding the baby with it.. but it didnt eat or drink anything readily.. I had to open its beak.. dump a pea in and shut.
I mustve forced in about 8-10 peas, 4-6 pieces of diced carrots, and few corn kernels as wel..

*>* that evening, mother not to be seen, I decided to feed it with chopped apple (without skin). Must have fed it with about 1 TBSP until it looked away walked away.
i left it back in the box.

*>* this morning, the mother returned, pecked her food, and flew away.. ignoring the child. However, the baby pigeon has been quiet and sleepy since morning today and didnt even call out to its mother. the mother has retuned many times, but neither have attempted to ask out.

Soemthing seems strange and I dont know what to interpret.

I have my day off, and I have made a video of this baby pigeon (linked), and a pic of its latest poop.
From what I see, it has no Canker.

Also I did notice it do something strange.. It looked down, and SHAKED ITS REAR quite a few times.. then stopped. Did this two times .. (very similar to what a dog does while trying to poop, instead shaking its rear).

P.S *>* im in abu dhabi, and trying to reach out to vets as I post this.

video Link to baby :
https://youtu.be/CnGIEZzjIO4

Poop pic 1: http://www.imagebam.com/image/053e7c1236586514
 

Poop pic 2: http://www.imagebam.com/image/c626321236586574


Poop Pic 3:http://www.imagebam.com/image/559ee61236613284


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Here - video of shaking its rear*

Here is a video of it shaking its rear.

Doesnt do it often.. but does it.

https://youtu.be/gDYlQnVRntU

I think its constipated. im not sure what to do.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You should have waited for the baby to fledge and then you could have cleaned up the area. Pigeon droppings can't make a human sick. Can you get hold of unsweetened baby applesauce? Dilute with some warm water and feed this to him. Gently massage the crop afterwards to get things going again. Do this for a day or 2 and wait till the crop is completely empty. Then you can continue with only the defrosted soft peas. He will need 30 peas 3 times daily, total of 90 peas.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> You should have waited for the baby to fledge and then you could have cleaned up the area. Pigeon droppings can't make a human sick. Can you get hold of unsweetened baby applesauce? Dilute with some warm water and feed this to him. Gently massage the crop afterwards to get things going again. Do this for a day or 2 and wait till the crop is completely empty. Then you can continue with only the defrosted soft peas. He will need 30 peas 3 times daily, total of 90 peas.


Yes I realised I made a mistake by cleaning up. Stupid facebook posts!
I will try to find the unsweetened applesauce.

Did you watch the second video. Why does it shake like that ? Its a bit concerning everytime it does that.

Also why wont it eat by itself, doesnt even show any joy when shown food.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Looks like he is trying to vomit, but can't. You will need to get the crop emty. Is there no avian vet where you can take him?

He is much too young to eat by himself. The food inside his crop is not digesting, thats why he won't get excited about being fed.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Looks like he is trying to vomit, but can't. You will need to get the crop emty. Is there no avian vet where you can take him?
> 
> He is much too young to eat by himself. The food inside his crop is not digesting, thats why he won't get excited about being fed.


Thankyou for your response.

1) took him to 3 vets.
First one straight away yelled at me for getting a pigeon to him, calling it a bag of diseases, and wanted to report me to the cops.

Second one looked at it for a few seconds and suggested Poop Culture tests to be done, for 8 days.. collecting its poop 3 times a day and manually taking it to them every day..
It'll cost me about USD180 per test. And only after that he wil be in a position to say anything.
So that did not work out.

Third one wanted to put it to sleep immediately, as he was confident its infected with some deadly virus, and could potentially kill all the birds in the city.
He said these are the early symptoms of HPV or some thing. I didnt pay too much heed to it, and ran away with the birdie.

2) just got home.. and was starting to feed it peas. And I noticed this.

Picture : http://www.imagebam.com/image/d56e501237192314
 


Please tell me this is Canker. And its popped up just today. Since I had looked inside its mouth yesterday, this wasnt there.

Also, Now what should I do to make it better?
I just want it to Be happy, healthy and Fly one day!

I really hope and pray for the same.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Oh these horrible vets. First of all, don't feed him more food until the crop is empty. Only the baby applesauce. If you keep on adding more food, everything will just rot inside and he will die.

It might be canker, won't hurt to treat him for that. Try to get Meditrich by Medpet. He will need about 30-40 mg once daily for 7-10 days. It comes in 100 mg tablet, so you can just split them into the right size and feed to him.

Thanks for not letting them put him down. But for now, only applesauce until the crop is empty.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Oh these horrible vets. First of all, don't feed him more food until the crop is empty. Only the baby applesauce. If you keep on adding more food, everything will just rot inside and he will die.
> 
> It might be canker, won't hurt to treat him for that. Try to get Meditrich by Medpet. He will need about 30-40 mg once daily for 7-10 days. It comes in 100 mg tablet, so you can just split them into the right size and feed to him.
> 
> Thanks for not letting them put him down. But for now, only applesauce until the crop is empty.


Thankyou for responding.
Its a cruel planet! Especially where I am right now.

Till you could respond, I did some reading online on these forums.
Since its a holiday for 3 days from tomorrow, all will reopen on Monday.

The best I could arrange is Metronidazole 500mg meant for humans, as any other antibiotic requires prescription and I wont be getting help from any doc until Monday.

I split this tab in 10 parts and shaved some off each part. So each piece is roughly around 25-35mg.

Now im not an expert, but I found some probiotic powder meant for babies, and I put some in 1 tbsp of warm water and gave it along with the metro tab about 3hrs ago.

And I just received your message.

Questions:

1) what do I feed it now that its on Medication ? How much ? How often ?

2) I have arranged for two small bottles of warm water, and placed them around him and covered half the box with a towel.

3) Is there anything else in terms of meds I should arrange ? Supplements ?
Multi-vit, fishoil ? etc 
Probiotic options ? Greek yogurt ? Cider vinegar?

4)I bought some organic apple puree as this was the only sugar free option.. every applesauce out there has atleast 30-50% sugar. 
How do I feed it apple-puree? how much ? how often?

5) rice powder? cereals? rice? lentils.. ? anything to be fed ?

6) anything else I should be thinking of ?


My apologies for berrating you with so many questions. As this bird doesnt speak, nor does it show any signs or symptoms.. at present, an online guide is my only hope.
I Want to see this bird fly!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Questions are always welcome, but plse then stick to the answers. Plse stop giving him baby probiotics. This may contain milk products, and pigeons can't digest milk. So you are making things worse by guessing and putting all kinds of stuff into him.

Ok. Rather go for 40 mg of metro, you don't want to underdose. This applepuree you can mix with warm water to make it a bit runny. Now gently dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils otherwise he will aspirate) into this mixture to get him to drink. You might have to do this several times for him to learn. You can try giving some by syringe, but he can also easily aspirate, so rather try the first method.

Has he been pooping? Can you see the crop going down? ONLY feed him peas when the crop is empty. 30 peas 3 times daily, so 90 total for the day. You can try and get probiotics for pigeons. He will need that after the antibiotic.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Plse just make sure he does not overheat. Always better to give them some space to move away from the heat source.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Plse stop giving him baby probiotics. This may contain milk products, and pigeons can't digest milk. So you are making things worse by guessing and putting all kinds of stuff into him.


This seems a non-dairy probiotic.
Its Bifidobacterium animalis sub-suspension lactis by Sandoz.
I will stop it anyways.




> Ok. Rather go for 40 mg of metro, you don't want to underdose. This applepuree you can mix with warm water to make it a bit runny. Now gently dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils otherwise he will aspirate) into this mixture to get him to drink.


- will dose it with 40mg approx of metro.

- Upon dipping its beak.. it does not drink at all. just stays still .. or moves its head away to the right or left.

- So had to force with syringe. It seemed very uncomfortable with water / apple puree + water. Consumes it with extreme difficulty it seems. Makes a 'puff' sound everytime it gulps water. It did aspirate. So I stopped. it Consumed about 1TBSP

- Will stick to peas.



> Plse just make sure he does not overheat. Always better to give them some space to move away from the heat source.


Done.

Its feathers now look a lot more ruffled up. some fall/fell.




> Has he been pooping ?


Yes. Much better compared to when I force-fed it apple.
poops have been frequent compared to the other day, since Ive stuck to peas. Like every 45mins to an hour.

They are mostly completely green and pasty, with bubbles.. lots of bubbles.

Poop after first dose of Metro appears mostly white. but landed entirely on tissue paper.. so cant say much about texture.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

His droppings will be green and mushy when getting fed peas. At least we know the food is digesting. Bubbles/foamy droppings can be a sign of yeast that also appear as whitish yellowish growths. Can you get hold of human Nystatin from a pharmacy?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The Nystatin is a thickish yellow liquid. You will need to give him about 0.3ml twice daily on a empty crop. It does not get absorbed in the system, but needs to come into contact with the yeast. The antibiotics will also make the yeast worst.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

So every morning: give him Nystatin, wait an hour and then feed him peas and then give the metro. The Nystatin comes with a 1ml medicine dropper, so just draw up the correct amount an put little bits in front of his mouth and give him time to swallow. He will hate this!

Try to get him to drink some water. You can add 5ml of apple cider vinegar to 1 l of drinking water. Put some in a small bowl and also dip the tip of his beak inside there. Be patient, he will eventually have to learn to start drinking.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Update:

*>* After giving it applesauce with warm water, I left it alone for about 4-5 hours and gave it another dose of Metro.
Then I slept off..

Woke up in 4 hours and saw it had pooped a lottttt!.. Its crop is much much softer now. Its about 70-80 % softer compared to yesterday.
Poop is Greyish-Brown and white in color mostly.

Poop : http://www.imagebam.com/image/5905bb1237692864
 


I fed it about 30 Peas .. And The crop was not even 30% full after feeding it peas. It still refuses to eat or drink.
10 mins after feeding peas, it pooped Green. This was pretty quick.


Another issue
Its started to bite/poke/itch itself a lot more - under the wings.. over the shoulders. A lot more than usual.
A pic of amount of feathers its lost. It does it every 2-3 mins. I checked it for bugs and stuff.. none. its clean. I want it to stop poking itself with the tip of its beak.

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/c843571237692874
 

*>* I will try to get Nystatin. Lets hop Its found here.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Great news about the droppings! Don't worry about the feathers, that's normal for a baby. He is just grooming himself with his beak. Also normal. That's a good sign, he is feeling better.

If you think 30 peas is not enough, you can feed a bit more. 

Continue with the metro, only 1 dose per day. And get the Nystatin for twice a day.

Honestly, I didn't think he was going to survive. You are doing a great job. Plse feel free to post more questions and keep us updated.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

Hi,

> I got Nystatin 100,000 I.U per mL oral suspension. The pharmacist insisted I take Flucanozole 150mg along and take it once a week for next 3 weeks. Else the Oral suspension wont affect.

> The bird was doing fine till I gave it its second feed for today. I forced it 37 peas and 3-4 corn kernels. The crop seemed 50-50% full. Its been sitting quietly in the same spot.. doesnt move.
Its poop was Yellow-ish now, and it had thrown out 2 corn kernels and 2 peas in an hour after I left it there.
Latest poop : http://www.imagebam.com/image/58b5861237864104
Yellow poop : http://www.imagebam.com/image/46435b1237864144

Poop is Solid Yellow and Green now. 

> It was doing the "rear-shake dance" again while feeding it.. So I clicked a pic of its rear (opening). im not sure what to make of it.
Pic of its rear : http://www.imagebam.com/image/d420b81237864124
Shake Vid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc5b4XtPGPs&feature=youtu.be

* edit : >> I KNOW WHY ITS DOIN THE SHAKE. ITS THROWING OUT UNDIGESTED PEAS. i THINK ITS CAPACITY IS ONLY 15-20 PEA *


> When do I start nystatin ? And when do I bring the dose of Metro down to once a day ?

> Also, how much water should I make it drink ? Since the peas get soft and soggy after defrosting in hot water.. do I make it drink more water ?


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Im not sure if the peas are getting digested. Another 6-8 out now. But its started moving now..


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How much metro are you giving? I told you only ONCE A DAY! A baby that size can easily take in 30 peas when all is digesting properly.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Plse don't give him any more metro for the day. I told you to give the nystatin on an empty crop, wait an hour and then feed him. You are gambling with this baby's life and you will lose him if you don't follow the instructions.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Plse don't give him any more metro for the day. I told you to give the nystatin on an empty crop, wait an hour and then feed him. You are gambling with this baby's life and you will lose him if you don't follow the instructions.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Don't give him the flucanozole. Your overdosing him. He does not need that, the pharmacist don't know about pigeons. How much did you give? You don't know the dosage. 

If he doesn't want to drink water, don't force gim.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Don't give him the flucanozole. Your overdosing him. He does not need that, the pharmacist don't know about pigeons. How much did you give? You don't know the dosage.
> 
> If he doesn't want to drink water, don't force gim.


I havent given it any flucanozole. I havent started with Nystatin yet, as you mentioned to start next morning, and on an empty stomach.

Now the metro.. 
- First dose : I gave it roughly around 25mg metro At 7:30pm in the evening.

- As the crop was full, I did not give any peas, I gave it apple sauce with warm water at around 12am.. and put it to sleep. 

- morning 5am it had pooped a little, and crop was not completely empty.. (I read to give metro twice a day somewhere on these forums). So gave it another 30mg roughly at 5am

- By 8:30 am it had pooped a lott. The crop felt 80% empty as I messaged. Then I fed it about 30 peas at about 9am. 
Now the second feed was at 4:00 pm with 37 peas as the crop seemed empty.

Now I thinking to not feed it tonight, and no more metro.
Instead Apple sauce with warm water ?
and start nystatin tomorrow morning say at about 6am. Wait an hour then feed? or metro ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Ok so from tomorrow morning: Give Nystatin, wait an hour and then feed peas. Then give him the metro. Then in evening: Nystatin, wait an hour an then feed peas. 

If the crop is empty over lunchtime: feed him peas. So 3 meals during the day, 2 doses Nystatin and only 1 dose metro.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can also rather dip a few peas in the applepuree (mixed with a bit of warm water) and feed to him. Will be a bit messy.

Yellow droppings is not a good sign. I hope he survives.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

I sort of force-fed it with 10-12 soft small baby peas.. dipped in apple puree and warm water.
It completely rebelled after 8 peas.. and i didnt wanna force further.

It doesnt drink water at all, hates it completely. It definitely has a respiratory block. as it gulps water it sneezes showering water all over. So didnt force it much.

It now poops tiny pea-sized pellets.. mostly Solid dark green with a very small mustard yellowish base. Mostly solid paste.
I read online - Yellow is sign of either AdenoVirus type-1 infection, or Liver Damage. Im not sure how do I treat or support that.

For now ill stick to what you have mentioned.

Update on Canker in mouth - its definitely grown.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/7be4271237993054


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

I want to take a moment to Thank you whole-heartedly for all your support and guidance.

Thankyou!

I feel sorry for the baby, I honestly do.
I sometimes wonder.. had I not disrupted its environment by cleaning the nest.. It would not have been in this position now. Probably would be happy and lively with its mother.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I really don't mind helping. I learned so much on this forum and it's only a pleasure sharing with new members. Canker affects the liver, thats why the urates can be yellowish.

The best for now will be to keep him warm for the night. Start again tomorrow with the treatment. Sounds like he breathed in water. If the nostrils are under water and he breathes, then he will sneezes. Never ever dip the beak so deep into water that the nostrils are covered. That's what I told you. Remember he is young, doesn't know how to drink.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> 11:30am Last Night I didnt feed it anymore.
I gave it Apple puree with warm water by syringe.. forced it.. and put it to sleep. It was very drowsy.

> I woke up at about 6:45am, the the bird was up before me. 
FOR THE FIRST TIME It was standing on its feet looking outside the box waiting for someone to come.
It had pooped a LOTTT! All white and greyish brown matter.
I think the bird was severely dehydrated! Thats why thick sticky lumps of green poop. So.. only way to feed it water is by syringe.

Its lost a lot of weight, I can see the thing that pulses in its neck now.

> (_Question : Should a bird be given any salt, for body to retain water?_)

> 7:30 I gave it nystatin (0,3ml), drop by drop on its tongue.. as it would not stay still at all and went for shower breakfast.
*usually the bird just goes back to sleep in the corner. But when I returned today.. it was up still on its feet.. and flapping its wings and at the portion of the box which was getting direct sunlight .. wanted to be taken out of the box. And no.. its not cold inside.. its about 33*C With direct sunlight it gets very hot.. like 40+.*

> 8:30 I gave it water, 30 -32 peas.. and it sat down in the corner as usual. lifeless.. But as soon as some direct sunlight got on it.. it was up.. and moving around and flapping its wings. By 9 I noticed this.. and left it out in the balcony.. alone When i returned after 30 mins.. it was trying to pluck a Straw. Still up.. still wanting to be out..

> by 10 It was time for metro. I didnt want to give metro. I didnt want it to be lifeless again. But I thought of relapse.. and missing a dose and all those bad things.. especially the canker.. and eventually gave it about 30mg of metro.

Im hoping metro doesnt make it back into joyless creature from yesterday.
God Help and have mercy on this baby


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm positive he has canker, those missing feathers under the beak is also 1 of the symtoms.

No need for salt. No water by syringe, he can aspirate. Rather concentrate on getting him to drink. Put the bowl in front of him and stir the water with your fingers. Put a drop on your finger and hold this next to his beak. He will eventually have to learn to drink. The sooner the better.

When they have canker, they are always thirsty. Give the metro, don't skip a dose. Give until those yellow growths are gone. Keep on giving Nystatin.

Don't leave him outside, he is vulnerable out there. Might get attacked by other pigeons.

Canker makes them feel nauseous, that's maybe why he looks depressed after feeding. But you need to feed him and give the meds, all will be good for him at the end of the day. Glad he is still alive!


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

1:45pm.. woke it up from sleep. It had pooped a Lot. Mostly Green Mushy matter with White surrounding matter. Seemed like white urates maybe. But whenever Ive given it metro.. poops have some white urates sort of thing. Lots of clear liquid.

Gave it water. It fell Asleep while sipping, maybe 2-3 times.

Fed it will 25-30 Peas.. didnt count.. it couldnt eat anymore.. Ensured it sipped water constantly. Didnt rush with the peas. Took my time feeding it. I didnt want it to throw up or feel uncomfortable. So far so good.

Pooped twice while eating. Liquid with mushy peas.
*Pic* : http://www.imagebam.com/image/f7147d1238740934

Again drowsy and lifeless. I feel metro is too strong for it. It was Alive and peppy in the morning. Held its neck High Up.. straight.. on its feet. Then metro changed everything.

I think Metro is too strong for it.
Should I start with ACV as you mentioned in an earlier post ?
I have some organic ACV from before.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Has he started drinking by himself? Is so, then you can add the acv. Remember, 5 ml to 1 l water. White urates is a good sign, a healthy pigeon produces white urates.

Are you sure he is getting 30 mg of metro? The dosage is correct. I've never used human metro, only one for pigeons. Don't know if that might be the reason. Best will be to get metro for pigeons. Meditrich by Medpet. Then you know you can't go wrong.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Has he started drinking by himself?


Not really..
I made the 2.5ml/500ml ACV water in a bowl, and held it near it, made him dip his beak about 20 times or so.. and it sipped a little. It took me about 15mins for it to have 1TSP of ACV-Water.

> Another thing.
After the second feed, it slpet for about 30mins, then was restless. Wouldnt stop moving in the box. The room made non-stop rustling sounds.. so i put junior out of the box.
It kept moving on the floor near to the window.. so i eventually put him back in the box, and put the box in the balcony.
It finally stopped moving. It was sitting in the box with eyes wide open.. and grooming non-stop.
It doesnt like to be indoors at all.

> Junior recognises its mother/father. Our champion can squeak .. pretty loud when its mom/dad approached.. but I think because of the odour or maybe because of me.. mom/dad do not come too close.
I know its the parent as it does not squeak to any other pigeon that visits the balcony (yes there are about 8-10 that come regularly).

>> Poops: have been 90% Solid chunky dark green paste with 10% solid off-white yogurt paste like stuff.

Overall, its been completely active, awake and relaxed out in the balcony.

> In about an hour I will give it the next dose of Nystatin and feed an hour after that.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Are you sure he is getting 30 mg of metro? The dosage is correct. I've never used human metro, only one for pigeons. Don't know if that might be the reason. Best will be to get metro for pigeons. Meditrich by Medpet. Then you know you can't go wrong.


Its approx 25-35mg. Its a 500 MG Tablet.. So I divided it to the 16th part. But after 8 parts it becomes very difficult to divide furter.. so .. approx 25-35mg.

meditrich.. im trying to source. Its difficult in this part of the world.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sounds good, grooming is always a good sign. Don't force him to drink if he doesn't want to. If he did drank a little bit, he will in future if necessary.

Plse don't leave him on the balcony unsupervised. The other pigeons might attack him and even kill him. The parents won't recognize him anymore. Don't you have a cage where you can put him in? Where are you from btw?


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Sounds good, grooming is always a good sign. Don't force him to drink if he doesn't want to. If he did drank a little bit, he will in future if necessary.
> 
> Plse don't leave him on the balcony unsupervised. The other pigeons might attack him and even kill him. The parents won't recognize him anymore. Don't you have a cage where you can put him in? Where are you from btw?


The parent Did. Many pigeons come and go, but this one is sitting around, still. It tried to feed Junior. And this baby isnt squeaking to anyone else.

Im in Abu Dhabi.
I do not have a cage.. and I havent checked for one so far. Most of the Pet Product Shops are in Dubai.. which is about 5-6 hrs too & fro driving distance.
I would make that drive, but I need to keep a check on junior .. Cannot leave him alone for too long.
Also I didnt plan on getting a pet. This one had sheer bad luck and needed some help.

Since I have a few days off.. im tring my best to take care.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can't you have the metro send to you by overnight courier? Will be cheaper than driving.

Even if the parents start feeding him now, you will need to give the meds. Otherwise the canker will kill him eventually.

Do you have a large cardboard box? You can turn this on the side with the opening to the front. Cover this opening with a plastic mesh that will allow sunlight in but prevent him from getting out or other pigeons getting to him.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Can't you have the metro send to you by overnight courier? Will be cheaper than driving.


The thing about this country is..
Now, Its next to impossible to get meds without prescription.
Even the meds for pets need a prescription. Plus they have banned Meds manufactured abroad. Meds avl in pharmacy are now made by gulf Pharmaceutical co. or UK or Germany.

Meds imported from abroad definitely need prescription. Im not sure if anti-biotics will be allowed. If they are.. then I will need to proof a Pet License.
Its strict here.
Plus, the courier will take atleast 4-5 days.

Even this Metro 500mg Ive acquired with great difficulty, without prescription. And they did not have any other metro (with lower power)
Ive checked with pet Supply stores and very few are allowed to stock meds, especially for birds. and they require prescription. So Ill attempt once the holidays are over, and some of these store open.
Most of Pet Meds are usually with Vets who ask for a license to own a pet. They do not entertain stray Birds and animals like Junior ( from my second post, I was discouraged by 3 vets).

This country is not friendly for stray animals and birds.



> Even if the parents start feeding him now, you will need to give the meds. Otherwise the canker will kill him eventually.


Im not going to allow that until Junior gets recovers completely.
But at some point I intend to let it fly away in the wild, once its completely better.




> Do you have a large cardboard box? You can turn this on the side with the opening to the front. Cover this opening with a plastic mesh that will allow sunlight in but prevent him from getting out or other pigeons getting to him.


Ive got some free time tomorrow.. Ill try to make something.

Im trying to source meditrich as well.. lets hope I get it asap.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Ok then, at least you have metro to treat him with. To me it sounds as if he is getting better. It usually takes 3 days for the meds to start working, sometimes longer.

You can check the growths inside his mouth again tomorrow.

Once he has recovered, you can do a soft release. Will talk about that later. 

You are lucky, I also have some free time at the moment. That's why the answers are so quick.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Was just wondering. How are you giving the metro? A solid 30 mg piece? Then its fine.

But if you crush the metro and put this inside a pea, then it might not get absorbed so well. So rather go for the first option.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Got me some meditrich
Also a Animal-Bird Probiotic, please have a look.

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/4cf6bd1239082034

Question : It says 100mg Meditrich, should I give an entire tablet or break into 3 and give a third of it ?

While I was away, poop seems better now. Looks like off-white urates
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/cb68111239081994



Marina B said:


> Was just wondering. How are you giving the metro? A solid 30 mg piece? Then its fine.
> 
> But if you crush the metro and put this inside a pea, then it might not get absorbed so well. So rather go for the first option.


After breaking it into 16 parts, I made 3-4 small chunks of it and gave it then forced water with a dropper so it didnt get stuck.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

That's good, the same meds I also use. You can split the 100 mg into 3 parts and keep on giving him 30 mg once a day. You can open his beak and put the meds deep towards the back, same as with peas. Plse be careful putting water inside his beak. I've never had problems with meds getting stuck.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The probiotics you can mix with drinking water according to instructions. The droppings look more solid, but the yellow is not a good sign. Urates must be white.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Its become extremely difficult to feed it peas now that its regained energy. 
It Hates peas I believe.
Doesnt even attempt to eat them by itself. Moves its neck in all directions to dodge the pea.
Holding its beak apart is become very difficult now.




Marina B said:


> The probiotics you can mix with drinking water according to instructions. The droppings look more solid, but the yellow is not a good sign. Urates must be white.


Do I start with probiotics already ?
Or wait for antibiotics to get over ? 
As i understand.. the antibiotics will wipe out the pro-biotic microbe population.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How are you feeding the peas? Best way is to put him on your lap against your body facing to the right (if you are righthanded). Reach with your lefthand over his body and head and open the beak with those fingers. Have a pea ready in your righthand and put deep inside the beak over the tongue. You can start leaving a small bowl of peas with him. Believe me, he will start pecking at them when he gets hungry. They usually learn very quick.

You can start with the probiotics now, or wait until the treatment is finished. I always give during treatment. You have it, so won't hurt if you start now.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

I keep it on the table.. so his head is approx my chest level.
Hold the pea in the fingers of right hand, and try to open the beak with left.
It was much easier earlier when it was weak, and disinterested, as it would not move its neck much. just rest it on its crop.
Now it holds its neck high.. keeps looking around observing new things. Was observing my mobile phone as it rung for the longest time yesterday while feeding it.

The Peas are soggy If I leave in the box and the bird poops on them.. then it will get contaminated. Or even leaving them outside wil contaminite them as they are soggy.

Ill fig something.
Just fed it 35-38 peas.. and its drowsy after consuming peas.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Only put a few peas in a small bowl. How big is the box you are keeping him in? Does he have a perch (a brick for ex)? Put this in the 1 corner of the box and the bowl in the other corner. Pigeons like to perch and at least he will spend time away from the food bowl. Replace the peas if necessary.

He will need to learn to eat by himself eventually. Things will be much easier for both of you when he does.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

This is the box in which its mother originally laid 2 egss..
I decided not to change it, as I thought the mother would return once I clean it and change the grass and put back the baby.

Pic of Box : http://www.imagebam.com/image/4244081239494774

I cant help but wonder, how did this baby get canker. Did it happen because I cleant the box?


> When I first went to clean the box, the baby was healthy. its Base was almost pink. It was ROUND AS A Tennis Ball. It had a Bulging FAT CROP like an owl. 
In a weeks time the mother would sleep few feet away from the box, as the baby grew fat and big in 8-10 days. I found it strange as a 7-10day old baby would need the warmth and protection of mother.
The mother did feed it regularly, I would see.

> the other egg didnt hatch and was rotting from inside. I accidentally broke it - away from the baby and box, while cleaning the box.. sealed in a plastic bag and threw it.. cleant the area where it broke with dis-infectants.

> That evening mother didnt return.
So I hunted google and youtube and decided to feed defrosted Corn, Carrots and Peas. 
It seemed fine Next day. Mother had returned fed itself but would not feed the baby. Again the baby was alone in the evening.. no trace of mother.

>So that evening I checked youtube and decided to feed it chopped apple about a TBSP.

> And next day again the mother would not feed the baby.

Thats when I took matter in my hands ... took it to 3 vets. I opened its beak to check for canker.. and there was nothing.. possibly a tiny pink dot.. i didnt think it was anything.
The very next day i opened its beak again, as it had lost lot of weight & I noticed 2 white dots and assumed canker, and immediately started metro after reading up.

So did the healthy baby have canker all along ? or was it me feeding it corn, carrot and apples that caused this ? I think i changed its diet.. as it was primarily fed on Rice & bird seeds I would keep near the nest along with water.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The box is fine. Just put a small bowl of peas in the one corner. Stress can cause canker, it's possible this whole experience caused the canker. It's quite a common disease amongst young pigeons. 

Don't feel guilty about it, you didnt know and is busy setting things wright.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update*

Ok, It now has learnt to climb out of the box by itself.

> 9:30am gave it 30mg approx meditrich. It didnt get drowsy today. 
When i checked on it 3 hours later.. it had pooped a lot.. Mostly solid green paste with little yogurt. It doesnt look Yellow.. it doesnt look white either...
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/4309731239706524

> At 2:30pm Fed it with peas.. Its dodging peas for sure. Its become very difficult to feed peas now. Ive linked a video today.. of how difficult its got to feed it peas.
Vid :https://youtu.be/VYlYswgZv-o

On the other hand, its started to peck my fingers.. 
It also pecks stains on the table thinking they are grains or pellets. 
But avoids pecking peas at all costs.

So should I attempt sprinkling some Rice/Millets/grains close to it ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He is looking good, well done! He is associating your hands with food. Next time you feed him, keep the pea between your fingers and "tease" him. Don't feed him, rather let him peck at the pea.

You can leave some small seeds with him and then play with the seeds by using your fingers. Push them around, pick some up and drop them again. He will copy what your fingers does. When he starts eating seeds, he will need to drink some water as well.

Droppings also look good, although urates still yellow. Have you checked inside the beak lately?


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Yep,
its definitely the father. keeps coming back to feed junior.
Its not left the balcony and keeps circling the window.
It scares the other pigeons off the balcony.

Im not allowing it to feed junior.
Vid: https://youtu.be/yidirT15LCY



> He is associating your hands with food. Next time you feed him, keep the pea between your fingers and "tease" him. Don't feed him, rather let him peck at the pea.


I keep doing it.. and continue doing it till it starts pecking.
It saw its father peck.. and it started pecking straw and tissue in the balcony.
I removed the tissue pieces off its mouth.



> You can leave some small seeds with him and then play with the seeds by using your fingers. Push them around, pick some up and drop them again. He will copy what your fingers does. When he starts eating seeds, he will need to drink some water as well.


>Any seeds in particular ?
I sprinkle Rice and Lentils and Red milets but it doesnt attempt pecking those at all. Such a picky child!



> Droppings also look good, although urates still yellow. Have you checked inside the beak lately?


Could yellowish droppings indicate low on Calcium, Vitamins or minerals ?

I check inside the beak every 24 hours for progress..
In 3-4 hours ill check and update


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You know, for his longterm survival, it's always better to be raised by his parents. They will show him where to find food, water etc. 

Why don't you let the dad continue to feed him? Then you only need to get the meds into him every morning before he is getting fed by the dad. As long as he is safe on the balcony. How many days has he been on the metro? 

The yellow urates is a symptom of canker, the disease affects the liver. When the urates have turned white, then you know he is getting healthy.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> You know, for his longterm survival, it's always better to be raised by his parents. They will show him where to find food, water etc.


Yes that is my intent. Once junior is healthy, then leave him back with his parent(s).



> Why don't you let the dad continue to feed him?


Because im afraid it'll contract some other disease as he is low on immunity.
After the mother flew away, it was the father that fed him .. and next day this baby stopped eating altogether.

Ive read on these forums, most adult pigeons are carriers of many bacteria, virus, parasites and other disease causing germs. But they have some how gotten immune to it, and its usually the babies that get infected.
So im afraid now that its on antibiotics, it may contract something else and things may go down hill again!!
Im just waiting till it gets better.



> How many days has he been on the metro?


Today is the third day on metro.
Total 4 doses of metro
Day 1 = 2 doses
Day 2 = 1 Dose
Day 3 = today = 1 dose.

2 days on Nystatin.
Total 4 doses.



> The yellow urates is a symptom of canker, the disease affects the liver. When the urates have turned white, then you know he is getting healthy.


Got it. Thanks !!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I know you have good intentions with this baby. But if you keep on preventing the dad to feed him, the dad will eventually lose interest and leave and not bother with him anymore.

Junior might become very tame. You will need to do a soft release from your balcony, meaning you will need to keep on putting out food for him after he has left. You will need to wait till he is about 2 months old before releasing. The chances are big he might not return and not knowing where to find food (no parents to teach him) he might not survive. He will be chased by other pigeons (including his dad that won't recognize him anymore).

So it will be difficult for him out there, competing on the street with other older pigeons. 

Yes, he might be exposed to bad bacteria etc, but they do build up immunity. My point is: for longterm survival, let the parents to their thing. 

Another 7 days of treatment, maybe few more if necessary and he will be healthy again.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> I know you have good intentions with this baby. But if you keep on preventing the dad to feed him, the dad will eventually lose interest and leave and not bother with him anymore.
> 
> Junior might become very tame. You will need to do a soft release from your balcony, meaning you will need to keep on putting out food for him after he has left. You will need to wait till he is about 2 months old before releasing. The chances are big he might not return and not knowing where to find food (no parents to teach him) he might not survive. He will be chased by other pigeons (including his dad that won't recognize him anymore).
> 
> ...


Got it..
I have to resume work in the next 3 days. So hopefully by 3rd day.. Ill keep him out in a box or cage.. and observe from far.

& ofcourse.. keep a daily check on poop


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

6pm: Gave a dose of Nystatin.

7:15pm : Fed it with 40+ peas. It seemed fine. It pooped Twice while feeding it. Poop was Clear Liquid with green matter and white urates. Yes this one looks white.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/5d140c1240146454

8pm : put it to sleep, as i was leaving.

10:30 pm : it was asleep.. but woke up as soon as i went to check on it.
Had pooped alright. Much lesser than usual. Urates now were not as white as earlier.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/26a1461240146484

Update on Canker.
I think its reduced. I cant get a clear look inside the mouth any more, camera pic is close to impossible.. Junior is very active.. and moves a lot. I just cant get it to stay still any more.

Progress Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/48f2d51240146524

11:30 pm fed it with 25+ peas. It took 40 mins this time.
It twists and turns it neck, dances his legs, bends jumps.. flaps its wings. Impossible to get a hold of its beak open.
I fear of twisting its neck or dislocating its beak. Trying to be as gentle as possible.

it pecks my fingers.. I sprinkled rice before feeding it peas. It cant seem to get a grip of the grains. It wont even attempt to peck on peas.
After dabbing the tip of the beak in water.. it now finally sips water .. much better than before. But needs that dabing constantly. Wont drink by itself.


Question
> Which seeds or grains should I start keeping in the box for it to learn pecking ?

> It needs to gain weight, and feathers.. that fell or it plucked off itself.. while sick. The area between the back of its neck and shoulders has no feathers, can see the skin. Is that normal ?
Is there anything I should do ?


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update : day 4*

The bird was up much before me. It had pooped a lot.. most of it dried up .. so cant make much of it.
Ive slept more peacefully last night since the last few days.

7:15am : Nystatin 0,3ml

8,15am : I got it water.. and dabbed it once.. it sipped water readily. dipped its entire beak in it for a few seconds.. then got out.. and did it again.
I was very happy..

8:30 fed it peas about 35-40.
It still shows dis-interest in peas. But opens its beak when i attempt to feed it.. and runs away after 30 peas.. the last 10 were a painful task

Poop : immediately after 20 peas.

Looks Green in clear liquid with yellow and white urates both ? cannot make out easily..

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/d106e51240546844


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You're doing a great job. Try to get a dove mixture seed for him to start eating. They always learn to pick up the small round seeds first.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update : day 4*

Alright, will get the dove mixture seeds this evening.

10am : Metro time. It did not sleep at all
2pm : Green Peas.. 
Had a look at the poop..
Urates look pretty white to me

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/1f0d5e1240786064


I will observe the urates in the eveining again.. If they continue to be white, should I continue with medication?
Both nystatin and meditrich ?
0,3ml and 30mg ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, continue with the meds for another week. You will need to do the full antibiotic course, otherwise the canker will just come back and it will be more difficult to get rid off.

Droppings starting to look good! Will be greenish because you are feeding peas. When he is eating seeds, it will be brown.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Yes, continue with the meds for another week. You will need to do the full antibiotic course, otherwise the canker will just come back and it will be more difficult to get rid off.
> 
> Droppings starting to look good! Will be greenish because you are feeding peas. When he is eating seeds, it will be brown.


Ok,
Got it.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update - day 4*

Fed it too many peas today. mustve crossed 120 I believe. 4 Meals of 30-40.

Poops look excellent now. All have consistent white urates.

Poop Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/4c065c1241236244

Canker Update : Still persistent in mouth.
Canker Pic day 4 : http://www.imagebam.com/image/987dbe1241236204

Junior has become very active. Can now jump upto a feet high & take a leap.

It keeps pecking on tiny stains on the floor or table.. but wont peck peas or grains or seeds.
Got some dove seeds for it. White pearl millets with dried corn and oat kernels.
Still unable to get a grip on the seeds.
It pecks my fingers.. but wont peck seeds.
Lets hope for a better tomorrow.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Marina has given you excellent advice. You need to do exactly as she says. As far as feeding the peas, it's very easy if you hold the baby the right way. This is how you would do it.
If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.

Also, if the Dad was feeding the baby, then you should have left him alone. When they get to that size, the mom is usually on another nest with 2 more eggs, and the Dad is the one who feeds. When raised by humans, they have very little chance of survival when released, as they have not learned what they need to learn from the parents. When raised by the parents, that is how they learn to live in the wild. If you wait till he is better, or ready to go, then the Dad will not bother with him. He will not even recognize him as his baby. He will soon be feeding new babies and will not bother with this one, as Marina has already said. Let the Dad get close to him and if he will still feed him, then let him. He isn't eating on his own because he doesn't know how. They learn that by watching the parents after they are out of the nest. If you leave seed outside on the patio with him that the Dad can eat, he will hopefully feed the baby. And the baby will learn from watching the Dad. Leave a dish of water as well.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Jay3 said:


> ...
> 
> Also, if the Dad was feeding the baby, then you should have left him alone. When they get to that size, the mom is usually on another nest with 2 more eggs, and the Dad is the one who feeds. When raised by humans, they have very little chance of survival when released, as they have not learned what they need to learn from the parents. When raised by the parents, that is how they learn to live in the wild. If you wait till he is better, or ready to go, then the Dad will not bother with him. He will not even recognize him as his baby. He will soon be feeding new babies and will not bother with this one, as Marina has already said. Let the Dad get close to him and if he will still feed him, then let him. He isn't eating on his own because he doesn't know how. They learn that by watching the parents after they are out of the nest. If you leave seed outside on the patio with him that the Dad can eat, he will hopefully feed the baby. And the baby will learn from watching the Dad. Leave a dish of water as well.


The only reason why I wont allow the parent to feed it is because im afraid it may contract another disease.
Also the fact that its grown bigger now.. and im afraid it wil fly off with the canker still in mouth.

There is significant progress but this morning again it pooped Green with Off-White cheese.. and thats what ios concerning me now. There were visible white urates in poop whole of yesterday. But this morning, things have taken back a step.

I shall take your advice and let it loose in the balcony today.. to be fed and cared by its father.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Day 5 - The droppings from night look good green and white.

7:00am Nystatin

8:10am : Peas time but It poops Green with Yellowish cheese again. That got me very worried. Lets see how it goes.

9:30am : metro


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can increase the metro dosage to 40mg, that will still be on the safe side. 
He is still busy recovering from the disease, that's why some urates will be on the yellowish side. 

Has he attempted to fly? Some of those white spots look like yeast (not sure, I'm not an expert). When you give the Nystatin, make sure it comes into contact with those white spots. Especially those to the front inside the beak.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

12:30pm : Peas

poops were perfect white and green, no complaints.

At 3 put it out in the balcony.. along with dove seed mix and water.. 
Father appeared in 10-15 mins.. had some seed mix and water.. fed the child.
It happened some 5- 8 times .. 
Ive left them alone in the balcony now.

Not started flying as yet, but it can flap its wings and jump pretty high.. 
All this in less than 4 days from a quiet motionless baby.
So I assume in the next 4 days or so it'll start flying .. !?

Ill bring it inside in the evening.. 
Dose it with nystatin followed by peas.

I shall increase the metro to 40mg from tomorrow.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

They usually start flying at around 4 weeks old, hopefully by then he will be healthy again. So from now on you can let the dad feed him, you will only need to give the medicine.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> They usually start flying at around 4 weeks old, hopefully by then he will be healthy again.


Uh Oh.. That sounds dangerous. Junior is on the 25th floor of a tower.. with winds pretty strong here.

Canker update from last night : Still two persistent Dots.
Canker Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/62c48e1243339144

Poop : mostly clear water. Im not sure what the parents fed it.. coz it pooped mostly clear liquid. I fed it 30 peas last night and put it to bed. In the morning they were usual mushed green with white urates.

Metro : Increased the dosage to 40mg approx. No signs of drowsiness or sleep.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Looks like the canker nodules are getting smaller. Anything way back in his throat? You will need to check with a flashlight or headlight.

Just make sure the dad is feeding him. Hopefully he will be healthy by the time he learns to fly. Wow, that's quite high up. 25th floor!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Possible that he could have both canker and yeast. The large one looks like canker, but the smaller ones could be yeast. As Marina has already said, make sure the Nystatin touches the spots. Also, I would give the Metro right after feeding, rather than waiting. Metro can make them feel sick, or even vomit if given on an empty crop, so better to give it after feeding. How old is he now? It is important for the Dad to be feeding and be in his life, but also important that he doesn't fly off before well.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Jay3 said:


> Possible that he could have both canker and yeast. The large one looks like canker, but the smaller ones could be yeast. As Marina has already said, make sure the Nystatin touches the spots. Also, I would give the Metro right after feeding, rather than waiting. Metro can make them feel sick, or even vomit if given on an empty crop, so better to give it after feeding. How old is he now? It is important for the Dad to be feeding and be in his life, but also important that he doesn't fly off before well.


Im dropping the nystatin right on the two spots.
Ive been giving nystating at 7am, feeding it at 8, and metro at 9.. maintaining an hour gap between each.

Im not sure how old it is. seems to be around 20 days old. it still has those yellow feathers on the neck, under wings, and little on the tail.
Both father and mother fly in, fly out feed it in intervals. I didnt check on it all day, I was out, crop seems to be empty.. but it has pooped quite a bit.

Ive just got it inside. Poop now is a puddle of clear liquid, with greens in between.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/355be41243668294

Im hoping it is recovered and healthy before flying off. Lets hope for the best!


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Just make sure the dad is feeding him.


Both father and mother now are feeding it taking turns, flying in flying out. I feel they have other nests in other balconies. I recognize the mother as she stands on one leg but walks perfectly with both.

Need Help with thiss >
I noticed a rapidly moving bug like dot on the father, but didnt think too much of it.
Now I got junior inside for nystatin, I noticed this same dot move very quickly on it. It hides so well in the feathers, it took me 20 mins to find one. It has wings, its like a house-fly but itsnt.

It doesnt get killed with swatting. It hides very well. Just when I chased one off junior, and it hid somewhere not to be found.. i saw another one on Junior. And this one jumped on me.

After searching for 20 mins, I finally gave up.. and headed to the washroom, only to find it in my socks. I sprayed some water on it, and it could no longer move or fly.

I dont know what this is. I hope its not dangerous for the bird. And I hope you have a solution for me to get rid of it. Im sure its got this from its father.

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/4f2f6b1243668324


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can pick up a cage bird bug spray anywhere they sell caged birds, or a Permethrin spray or powder.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Day 7 - Update*

Hi,
I left the birdie almost all day with out supervision in the balcony, with its father.
It can now run / chase the father really fast. Im not sure if its well fed or not. I fed it with peas after nystatin at 9pm.

In teh evening, I got it inside for nystatin.. and rolled a sponge ball around it for it to play. It chased the ball all over the room, and was pecking it really really hard. Like it was angry at the ball.

Pecking: It can now grip small seeds well, but does not know what to do with it, so throws it away.
The seed vendor told me to Soak the seeds overnight, to make them soft, so it can crush the seeds and take it in.

Canker: White spots have disappeared. there is a pink/red spot instead. Let me know what do you think.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/0838a31244601314

Feathers: The area behind the neck towards the torso has no feathers. Is this normal?
Also, the birdie has a lot less feathers than what I see of other pigeons its age on youtube. Any idea if they will generate again? 
Should I do something for its stimulation ? Feeds ? Medication ?
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/52299e1244601374

Poop: Poops look proper green and white with liquid, or Brown and white with liquid. Nothing to complaint.

Overall, I think its ready to be handed over to its father. I will continue with its medication for another 3 days. Also the fact I begin with work tomorrow, so I wont be able to feed it any more.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can you make a video of the dad feeding him? Just to make sure he is getting fed properly. When getting fed, the baby will stick his beak into his dads beak and the dad will vomit up some food and the baby will eat this food from the dads beak. It's normal for babies to chase their parents, even after getting fed.

The mouth is looking good, the feathers will eventually grow back. You've done a great job with this baby, we must now just be 100% sure the dad is feeding him.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Can you make a video of the dad feeding him? Just to make sure he is getting fed properly. When getting fed, the baby will stick his beak into his dads beak and the dad will vomit up some food and the baby will eat this food from the dads beak. It's normal for babies to chase their parents, even after getting fed.


Here is the video. This is not the father. 
This probably is the mother. Shes laid eggs elsewhere, shes stealing the foos, also feeding this baby today. If I went any closer, she would fly off and may not return in time, its 6pm.

Video : https://youtu.be/wYWIn0QXrUE



Marina B said:


> The mouth is looking good, the feathers will eventually grow back. You've done a great job with this baby.


The credit goes you, I merely followed instructions. Im just happy the baby is active again.

Pecking: 
Junior is still not able to Peck seeds itself. Its really concerning, as I will not be around for most of the time from tomorrow onwards.

I even surrounded it with soaked seeds, but it simply rejected them. Infact, even the other pigeons rejected the soaked seeds.

It is able to grip them, but doesnt know how to take them in. The pecking has become stronger. Junior climbs back in the box, instead of trying to peck along with its father.

Also, is there anyway to find out if Junior is male or female. With whatever ive read online, junior seems more female.. but still uncertain.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Thanks for the video, he is definitely getting fed. No need to chase the parents away, let them do their thing. Just keep on refilling the foodbowl with seeds of all shapes and sizes. The parents will teach him how to eat eventually. They take quite a while to learn how to eat by themselves. Usually they can fly before eating on their own.

There's no way to determine the sex. Only when they reach maturity and you see other males courting Junior, or he courting females. Then you will know.

No need to worry about him being all on his own. The parents are now taking care of him, you just need to give the rest if the meds. Then your job is done, except for putting down food. If you notice his crop is empty when it gets dark tomorrow night, feed him some more peas.

From now on you will start noticing pigeons everywhere. I'm sure there will be more rescues in the future. Keep us updated on Junior's progress.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 8*

Canker: No more white spots inside the mouth. There are two red/pink inflamed spots on either side (marked with arrow), I assume its normal ?
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/2035b31245476994

Poop:
poops now are clear liquid with little brown / green material in between.
Look normal
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/bbe6f41245467754

Bugs:
Noticed another mite/lice on Junior. Sprayed some Colombine to the box, as well as underneath the Wings and Base of junior.
It was itching/pecking its wings even more after applying the spray. Im not sure if its working or not.

Pic Spray : http://www.imagebam.com/image/8db27f1245477024



> From now on you will start noticing pigeons everywhere. I'm sure there will be more rescues in the future.


Yes. Have definitely been looking at birds a lot more than before.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The mouth looks fine. The urates of the droppings still a bit yellow. Are the droppings always like that or only after you've given Nystatin? The Nystatin can also be the reason for the yellow urates.

So for how long as he been on the meds now? Do you have a waterbowl next to the foodbowl for the parents? You can add the probiotics and apple cider vinegar to the water for the parents to drink and when they feed Junior, he will also get in those probiotics.

So don't worry if he starts flying before he is able to eat. That's normal and the parents will feed him. He is still young, maybe another week to go before he tries to fly.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Day 9 - Update*

Hi,
I just got back home after work and noticed something stressful. 
There is a new White Spot in the mouth. Its not the same yellowish white, this is different. Yet a white spot, in a place where canker was earlier.
As Junior has grown, I cannot keep its beak open for long to check this properly.
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/c65b411246190574

What do you think of this. Please let me know.



Marina B said:


> The mouth looks fine. The urates of the droppings still a bit yellow. Are the droppings always like that or only after you've given Nystatin? The Nystatin can also be the reason for the yellow urates.


The droppings on day 6 7 and 8 were perfect white. No complaints.
Today however, yellowish again. Possibly because of nystatin. But they get white usually after metro.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/5c41a71246190624



Marina B said:


> So for how long as he been on the meds now?


Today was the 9th day.



> Do you have a waterbowl next to the foodbowl for the parents? You can add the probiotics and apple cider vinegar to the water for the parents to drink and when they feed Junior, he will also get in those probiotics.


Yes, 2 water bowls. Refilling with ACV 5ml/1L water.



> So don't worry if he starts flying before he is able to eat. That's normal and the parents will feed him. He is still young, maybe another week to go before he tries to fly


.
I got back late from work. Its almost 11. Junior wasnt asleep when I checked. Crop was maybe 10-20% full.
Just gave it Nystatin.
Will feed it peas and put it back outside.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Give him one more dose of metro, but continue with the Nystatin. That white spot looks like yeast. If you have a small artist paintbrush, you can dab some Nystatin on that spot after feeding him the regular dose. Then you are sure the Nystatin comes in contact with the yeast.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just checked back to see how it was going. Seems he is doing pretty well. I agree that does look more like yeast, and Marina's advice is good. And yes, she has been working hard to help you with this baby.
Maybe if you leave him with some peas, he will learn to eat by himself. They are easier to pick up and so they often will learn more quickly on the peas. Then it will be easier for him to eat the seed. Just a thought. Put them in a shallow dish or something like that.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 10*

Hi,
Gave Junior the last dose of metro (hopefully), this morning, and rushed to work. When I returned at 11pm, Junior was DEEP ASLEEP. Ive never seen it sleep like this. But as soon as I lifted the box, Junior woke up, and is active since.

Crop is empty, mouth is dry and its thirsty.

Canker update : The white spot has gone.But if you look at the second pic, there are tiny white spots in 2-3 areas. Im not sure if its yeast, or just blisters? with flash glowing on the blisters ?
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/982f7f1246881704

Poop : Very much yellowish.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/c0d01f1246881834



Marina B said:


> Give him one more dose of metro, but continue with the Nystatin. That white spot looks like yeast. If you have a small artist paintbrush, you can dab some Nystatin on that spot after feeding him the regular dose. Then you are sure the Nystatin comes in contact with the yeast.


- I do not have an artist brush, ill try to get one tomorrow.

- Also, the morning doses of nystatin are not on empty crop. I wake up at 7, but the birds are up much earlier (I think by 5). Junior usually has a 20-30 % full crop in the morning.

- I just realised, past 3 days Ive been giving Junior 0,5ml of nystatin. Maybe the reason for yellowish poops ?
Also Junior doesnt like to sip water, at all. I really have to keep dabbing its head in the bowl, and it just looks away with a tantrum.

- From today, nystatin is to be given once daily, or two times daily?
_My work hours are hectic. So doses will be at 7:30am and 12 mid-night_.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Jay3 said:


> Just checked back to see how it was going. Seems he is doing pretty well. I agree that does look more like yeast, and Marina's advice is good. And yes, she has been working hard to help you with this baby.
> Maybe if you leave him with some peas, he will learn to eat by himself. They are easier to pick up and so they often will learn more quickly on the peas. Then it will be easier for him to eat the seed. Just a thought. Put them in a shallow dish or something like that.


Yes, im really greatful to Marina and Pigeontalk for guiding me and helping Junior. There is a lot of incorrect info on google & youtube. I Just hope and wish Junior is rid of this Canker and Yeast its suffering from.

As for the Peas,
Ive tried everything, but Junior does not even attempt to peck peas or drink water. 
Even by itself, it will peck on Stains on the floor, Foos Straws, even its own poop and tiny feather particles but not Peas. And will never sip water by itself.

Also past 3 days, its pecking has gotten stronger, and it now is able to grip small and medium seeds. But cannot take it inside, so throws them away.

Its now outside in the balcony all day and night next to its father (since 3 days), but as soon as the father feeds junior, it runs back to the box, and sits inside. Does not attempt to peck along with father or other Pigeons.

Ive sprinkled seeds all around its box in the balcony, so no matter where it is, Junior will attempt to peck, and by chance swallow a seed by its self. Im sure then it will realise how to feed itself.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The Nystatin must be given on empty crop, otherwise it can't coat the parts that it needs to in order to kill the yeast. Maybe if you get up earlier in the morning to give it before Dad comes to feed him. I had to do that with my first 6 babies that I inherited all at once. I had to get up early to feed 6 babies before leaving for work. Then had to stay up late at night to get enough feedings into them. Ah............the fun times! All worth it though.

Do you leave the seed in a small dish or something for him? You can probably use a Q-tip to apply the Nystatin to the spots, or even an eye dropper. And it still needs to be given 2 times a day.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi,
What are the symptoms for candida ?

I just passed by home mid-work, afternoon time. Junior was all curled up and sitting at the corner under a stool. Not sleepy or drowsy, but not very active.

Pic Mouth : http://www.imagebam.com/image/4b82d41247243304


Poop : Puddle of clear liquid with mushed green matter with yellowish urates ? (20 Mins after nystatin mid afternoon.)
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/0d01881247243314

Mouth had White stuff the first time I looked. Second time, it disappeared.
Crop was almost empty.
I gave it nystatin (first dose for the day), waited about 45 mins, gave it water, and kept it back outside for father to feed.
I had to rush.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yeast shows up as white spots inside the beak, so I'm sure that's what Junior have. Antibiotics will make it worst. He will also look sick, sitting puffed up the whole time. Is dad still feeding him? Is he still begging to be fed? 

Continue with the Nystatin for now.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> He will also look sick, sitting puffed up the whole time. Is dad still feeding him? Is he still begging to be fed?


Summer has just arrived in this region. Sun rises at 5am. I wake up by 7am.
By the time I step out to check on Junior, I see him being fed or chasing father.

By the time im ready to leave for work around 8:30am, the sun is shining direct on my balcony, and it feels like 45 degrees Celcius. By this time, junior finds a shade to hide from the sun. Usually under the stool in the balcony. So he is no longer chasing father for food. Then I leave.

I get back by 10pm in the night, finding them both fast asleep.

So im sure junior is being fed. Im not sure if it is being fed all throughout the day or only few times.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Day 11 - update*

Hi

7am, junior seemed fine. Getting fed.

2pm : Junior was under a stool, curled up and quiet. Crop 20-30% full.

2:15pm : Nystatin
3:15pm : Water, lots of water.


11pm : wokeup from sleep for nystatin dose. Pictures in link.

Day 11 (mouth) : http://www.imagebam.com/image/71c4121247844144

Day 11 (poop) : http://www.imagebam.com/image/7fb2e81247844194.

Urates are white. Everytime I feed it with lots of water, urates get white.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Think Marina is right in that it's yeast.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Droppings are looking good, best since you started treating him. With those hot temperatures he will drink plenty of water.

As long as he is eager to be fed by his dad, he is fine. Keep on with the Nystatin for another couple of days.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Droppings are looking good, best since you started treating him. With those hot temperatures he will drink plenty of water.


Junior does not drink any water by itself. I literally have to force it to have water. Keep a finger on his head and bring water in a bowl to its beak, many times before it decides to sip water unhappily.

Poop Pics of the entire day : http://www.imagebam.com/image/b276e51248763174

Urates are white after giving it water.

Poop pic 15-30 mins after forcing it to drink water : http://www.imagebam.com/image/900e641248764064




Marina B said:


> As long as he is eager to be fed by his dad, he is fine. Keep on with the Nystatin for another couple of days.


Yes its being fed by its dad for sure.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 12*

I think its started to dislike me. From the last 3 days I have been picking it up and taking 10-20 pics holding its mouth open, flashing bright flash-lights in its face. Most of the pics turn out to be blurred, and only a few have some detail.

Mouth pic day 12 : http://www.imagebam.com/image/b03ebd1248826794

Nostrils have dirt ? http://www.imagebam.com/image/e42b3f1248826834

Should I clean the nostril ? if yes .. how ?


Junior appears to be a deep dark grey pigeon. It doesnt have any feathers on its head, and feathers of upper torso are rough. 
Why so ?
pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/a926551248826884
Should I give multivitamins ? (Ive got for pigeon, from a store. 10 tabs as sample) 

And Grit ? (for calcium)


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You put a ring on him, that's great! Will now always recognize him. You can take a tissue or q-tip and try to wipe off the dirt.

Don't force him to drink water. He will get food, water and grit when his dad feeds him.

Try to take a photo of the back of his throat, deep down. Otherwise, all is good.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - day13*



> You put a ring on him, that's great! Will now always recognize him.


Yes, I thought Junior might fly-off now its started flapping its wings. Had got this along with meditrich. Its a rubber band.



> Try to take a photo of the back of his throat, deep down. Otherwise, all is good.


This is the best I could today. It doesnt stay still once i hold its beak.

Mouth : looks like a new white spot.I hope these stop soon.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/b4444f1249514714

Poop : Still yellow(ish). Almost all are like this.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/12f3b41249514734



> Don't force him to drink water. He will get food, water and grit when his dad feeds him.


I returned home earlier in the evening. I stepped out in the balcony .. Junior started walking towards me. It ignored the feeding sounds being made by the father, and stood right between my feet.
So I stepped back in the room. After a few moments .. I heard a constant flapping of wings with small squeaks. I went back to the window, junior was trying to get my attention. In a few mins I realised It wanted to come inside. For some reason, it likes to crawl under my computer table and lay down there.
So I got it in, realised the crop was almost empty, So I fed it with 25 peas (not too many as it was almost 7:30.. time to sleep.) Its 11pm now, and Junior is still awake.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*There seems to be a problem...*

Hi Marina, Jay3
There seems to be a problem.

I woke up this morning, as usual first thing i did was opened the window to step out in the balcony, and check on junior.

>> As soon as I opened the window, junior was waiting there, and flew inside to come in the room. I picked it up, and took it back outside, away from the window, and left it closer to the father.. then went to carry on with my morning.

After about an hour, when I stepped outside in the balcony, I could not find junior. I looked everywhere. When i got back inside, i saw Junior sitting quietly under my desk.
When I went to pick it up, it squeaks, turns around and sits down, refusing to go out. 
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/758ffd1250317204

I pick it up anyways, take outside, and keep it there.. In less than a min its back flying inside the window.
Vid : https://youtu.be/LFud43Atesw

So I Pick it up again, and leave it back outside, in the balcony. I Shut the window.

I returned home earlier today at about 5pm in the evening, I open the window to my room, and Junior is sitting right there, waiting for me or waiting for me to open the window. Then it flies inside. So I keep it back outside but leave the window open.

I have returned back at about 11pm, to find junior right below my desk. Asleep. Crop is completely empty!
This made me feed it about 25 peas.


>> The problem:
Junior is getting new feathers. All day its itching/preening itself, or lazing/sleeping around. There is no more canker. It does not seem sick..
It does not drink water itself at all. I have to force it to sip water.
It does eat by itself. But it chooses to be inside, and not outside with its father. So father cannot feed it either.
Its sad and does not like being outside.
Its very hot.. 45 degrees outside, 
while the Air-Con is running throughout the day inside, that may be the reason.. ?

What should I do ? 
I do not have the heart to leave it outside and lock the windows. It looks depressed when I do that.
But junior needs to eat and needs to peck seeds itself, and needs to drink water in this heat. And it does not do that at all.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - day 14*

Mouth seems cleared.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/9e70e21250329894

Poop still yellow.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/8048521250329844


Giving nystatin 2 times a day.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sorry I'm only replying now. Maybe something scared him outside. When was the last time you saw him getting fed by his dad?

I think you can stop with the Nystatin now. Rather concentrate on getting him to eat by himself. If he chooses to be inside with you, then rather let him stay inside. He will soon start to fly.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

I force fed Junior 25 peas this afternoon, kept it back in the box. It found a safflower seed and ate it.

And then I finally got it, I understood why its crop was empty yesterday. Junior has started to eat by itself. But it eats very little and selected seeds only, Big White ones (safflower) and medium brown ones (dont know what they are called). Simply chooses to ignore the rest.
And it eats a few seeds only so its crop is mostly empty.
I am sooo relieved.
Vid : https://youtu.be/0lF10yZ6siY





Marina B said:


> Sorry I'm only replying now. Maybe something scared him outside. When was the last time you saw him getting fed by his dad?


Earlier this morning I saw him chase father and get fed.
Yes I figured what its afraid of. Ambulance sounds, and Plastic bag sounds. It hides under the stool on hearing these..
Or its just the heat, as Junior was inside for 10-12 days while being treated with metro and nystatin for canker.



Marina B said:


> I think you can stop with the Nystatin now. Rather concentrate on getting him to eat by himself. If he chooses to be inside with you, then rather let him stay inside. He will soon start to fly.


I shall observe it and its mouth for a few days, then stop nystatin.

Poop after peas today.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/fcb11e1250807864


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Perfect dropping! Well done! Rather put his seed in a small bowl. Use your fingers to play with the seed. He will copy what your fingers are doing. Always make sure there are enough seeds available (the seed that he is able to eat). He will eventually start eating the other seeds as well.

Do the same with a bowl of water. Junior might surprise you and take a bath. They love bathing!


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update - day 15*

Mouth seemed clear all day. But just now saw this white spot, got me worried. I think its feather particle as Junior has been moulting all day.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/16fe8e1251011954

I had decided this would be last day of nystatin doses, and will stop nystatin from tomorrow. Please advise.

Droppings:
Droppings are a mix of perfectly white urates and yellow urates. Its random, I cannot figure what does it eat in particular to get either.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/adf8841251012004

Junior has spent the entire evening with me. I kept keeping it back outside but it slowly but surely comes back inside in my room. And finds the corner under my desk and lays there. But Junior is incredibly adorable. I would love to keep it as a pet. But I do not want that. I want it to live and fly with its kind, its kin and family.
>> One really annoying thing it does, is pecks its own poop. I have to literally shout STOP for it to stop doing it.



> Perfect dropping! Well done! Rather put his seed in a small bowl. Use your fingers to play with the seed. He will copy what your fingers are doing. Always make sure there are enough seeds available (the seed that he is able to eat). He will eventually start eating the other seeds as well.
> 
> Do the same with a bowl of water. Junior might surprise you and take a bath. They love bathing!


I had thought of bathing junior today, as it was my day off. But was not very confident of it. So did not.
i shall keep a bigger container outside.. I am just concerned other pigeons will make a mess with the water. Spill it all over and poop all over it, making an unhealthy environment for junior.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I think you can stop with the Nystatin. He has been on it for quite a while. I"m now thinking all those white spots in the beak was feather particles. 

Junior is pecking his droppings cause he is hungry. I'm sure by now he will be able to eat peas by himself. Put a small bowl of peas next to his seed.

If Junior likes being with you and feel safe inside, let him be.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 16*

Well,
This morning, Junior decided to move-in with Family ..
Vid : https://youtu.be/MdiA8fnjnS0

Ofcourse that didnt work out! I left junior outside, with plenty of food and water. I left the window open but not enough for junior to get in.
When I returned in the evening, Junior was inside, probably asleep the whole day.
I had left peas and seeds and water incase junior manages to come in, but it had hardly eaten anything. It did not even touch the peas.
Was a mistake, will leave junior outside tomorrow, closing the window completely. So that it can stay out and feed along with its parent.

Mouth : seems clear to me.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/a177a81252278064

Droppings :
Some what yellow'ish.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/352e511252278054

No nystatin today. Lets observe for a few days.



> I'm sure by now he will be able to eat peas by himself. Put a small bowl of peas next to his seed


Did not even touch the peas.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Droppings look fine to me. Can"t you build some sort of enclosure inside around the window? Something small, about 1 square metre. Then junior can at least come inside if he wants to. I think he feels safer inside. Maybe you should stop feeding him yourself. Leave that for the parents. They must teach him now to start eating by himself.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Droppings look fine to me. Can"t you build some sort of enclosure inside around the window? Something small, about 1 square metre. Then junior can at least come inside if he wants to. I think he feels safer inside. Maybe you should stop feeding him yourself. Leave that for the parents. They must teach him now to start eating by himself.


Hi,
Junior wants to sit inside my room, under the computer desk. It does not want to sit at any other place.

What is more concerning, is Junior no longer interacts with its Father. Not even any other pigeons.

It just sits and waits outside by the window, and when inside it runs straight under my computer desk. It does not even move once its there. Just sits there all by itself.
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/01e7f91253481984

Yesterday, I left junior inside my room for 6 hours and when I returned, it had not even moved from that spot. 
Yes it gets up, Flaps its wings, stretches, preens feathers everything, but at the same spot. It will not move to any other spot.

I even made its box bigger, added a small perch. But it will not sit in the box at all (with or without the white tissue paper). 
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/39e4091253481784

Even if I keep the box outside in the balcony by the window, or inside the room by the window, it will not sit in the box.
It will not sit in the box, even if its kept under the desk.

This is strange as it loved the box, and would run back to it every time.

In the balcony it will sit and sleep on the floor, right out side the window, but not in the box even If i leave the box right out side the window.

Feed:
Junior now pecks food very fast, by itself. Eats only 2-3 varieties of seeds.
Does not even touch the peas.

Water:
It will not drink water by itself. But, when I say "Junior Drink water" it will drink with a tantrum afraid if it does not drink, I will keep it outside.

Im worried about this.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*update - Day 18*

Its been 2-3 days I have stopped medications.
Junior has gotten stronger now. It become very very difficult to open its beak. It keeps moving. It does not fear me, but attacks my camera phone.

Mouth : http://www.imagebam.com/image/7c04fd1253481864
(looks clear. Dont know what that white spot is, will check again tomorrow)

Droppings:
Droppings are a little yellowish.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/ae78f51253481714

Junior now eats by itself, quickly and with lots of energy. It can tilt the bowl with its beak now.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I think you have a new pet. Nothing to be worried about. Junior prefers your company and the safety of your home. I won't let him out at all. If he wants to be inside, keep him inside.

Don't worry if he does not eat the peas, you don't need to put that down for him anymore. He is eating seeds, always make sure the type that he does eat is always available. He will eventually start eating the other seeds.

Plenty of people keep pigeons inside their apartments, so don't feel guilty at all. He might, when he gets older, feel the need to find a mate and will become less dependant upon you. Then you can try and do a soft release from your balconey. For now, keep him inside your apartment. If he flies away now and get lost, he will starve out there.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi Marina,
First, I thankyou very very much to help in saving Juniors life.
Junior would not survive the canker, with my heavy doses of medication and poor knowledge of feeding.
Thankyou, i really appreciate all the efforts and guidance!



> I think you have a new pet.


Oh well then. I did not want a pet. I will not throw junior out. But I will try to keep it out everyday for some time atleast. Maybe Junior will change its mind.

Also, What do pigeons like to do ? Im sure sitting under a desk is not a constructive thing to do? What should I bring for it it to keep it active and healthy ?
Do pigeons play? I know they are smart birds with good memory, but what should I do to keep Junior alert and active ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

It was only a pleasure helping! When I joined this forum years ago, I also knew nothing about pigeons and learned a lot over the years.

Pigeons like to perch somewhere high, especially at night. This makes them feel safe. When Junior starts flying, he will seek out a spot to sleep. If you have a cupboard, you can put down a couple of newspapers there and a brick on top for him to sit on. Easy to clean, just remove a layer of newspaper every morning.

They don't like toys. You can put down a mirror for him, they like to watch their own reflection. Now that he is eating seeds, he will need grit. He will be spending a lot of time indoors, so get him liquid calcium with added Vit D3. Both of these products you will either get from a petshop or maybe order online.

I'm sure he will eventually join the other pigeons outside when he gets older. Hang on to those meds, you might need it again sometime in the future for your next rescue. Keep us updated on how he is doing.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 19*

Mouth looks clear.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/db02901254438834

Droppings are still yellowish. And White when Junior has lots of water.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/3bb6491254441354

Overall,
Its very active. Flaps its wings attempting to fly every hour or so..

Feed:
Junior still has only 3 kinds of seeds. (white safflower seems favorite)
Once it finishes those seeds.. then spills & spreads the remaining seeds all over the floor. I think it gets angry, not sure.

I have been adding very little Grit to the bowl of seeds. 
And have been adding the animal pro-biotics to the water.




> Pigeons like to perch somewhere high, especially at night. This makes them feel safe. When Junior starts flying, he will seek out a spot to sleep. If you have a cupboard, you can put down a couple of newspapers there and a brick on top for him to sit on. Easy to clean, just remove a layer of newspaper every morning.


Well, I will have to fig that out later.
Meanwhile, keeping Junior inside is very messy when Im gone. It spills and spreads seeds all over the floor.
I shall get the calcium and d3 by next week.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Have you tried putting down a mirror for him? I'm sure he will spend a lot of time in front of the mirror. Put down the newspapers and something for him to perch on (all of that in front of the mirror). Easy to clean if they spend a lot of time in one spot.

Thanks to you for not giving up on Junior and all the time and patience for saving his life.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can put the grit in a seperate bowl for him. Don't be alarmed if he does not eat the grit, he will eventually.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 21*

Hi, this will be a long(er) post.
Today Junior completes 30-31 days (1 month) of age, approx. Im happy for Junior, as few weeks ago I never knew what fate has in store.

Junior, almost does not interact with any other Pigeons, including its father. 
I usually leave junior in the balcony, and shut the window overnight, so It would wake up with its father to be fed or learn flying or aquire any other skills.
But Junior stopped interacting with father, Its father has now left the balcony (for the past 20 days, father would usually sleep the night on my balcony railing, to feed Junior and shoo off other pigeons or occasional crows).

Junior has not started flying yet. It can fly small heights. From floor to my Bed, from bed to the desk. Only in my presence.
In my absence, it will remain under my desk and not move much.

I have decided to stop leaving seeds for Junior under the desk, as it would spread the seeds all over the floor and poop all over it.

Junior has now started biting my fingers when I touch it, but not aggressively. It Snuggles its Face between my fingers and stays like that, almost everytime. I dont think its hungry as there are seeds in a bowl right next to it. I dont understand what it wants.
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/32c86a1256598314

Mouth : Looks clear.
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/051e4e1256598294

Droppings : Yellowish, but turn White once I force it to drink water.



> You can put the grit in a seperate bowl for him. Don't be alarmed if he does not eat the grit, he will eventually.


Well, I mix a little grit in the bowl with remaining seeds. Ive seen it peck some pieces of grit. I have already got multi vit capsules with calcium. will Give it 3 per week. Also some powder vit d3.
Supplement pics : http://www.imagebam.com/image/a5ec251256598334



> Have you tried putting down a mirror for him?


Not yet, I actually forgot about the mirror. Also I dont know where to get one from. So will fig over the weekend.



> Put down the newspapers and something for him to perch on (all of that in front of the mirror). Easy to clean if they spend a lot of time in one spot.


Yesterday, I bought a cage for junior as it spends most time in one spot. I put junior inside. It was fine for about 10 mins, but then it would not stop squeaking. I felt horrible. I removed Junior out, and threw away the cage.



> Thanks to you for not giving up on Junior and all the time and patience for saving his life.


Junior maybe a Pigeon, but for me Junior was my baby once its mother flew away. Junior is the best thing happened to me in this materialistic and lifeless city. I will not give up on Junior. I want to see it fly maybe fly away, find a mate and be happy! I leave that choice to Junior.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The grit should not be mixed with the seed. It is supposed to go in a separate dish. They don't eat a lot of it, but just take it when they need it.
When you are not there, he should be caged, but a large enough cage that he can flap his wings, not something so small that he cannot move around in or flap. Of course he won't like it, but do it anyway. A metal dog crate works really well for a cage. They make a mess around the house, and too many things they can get into, or get injured when left alone. You do what is safer for him...............not what he likes.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Do you give Junior some love and attention? They like to be scratched on the head, especially underneath the eyes and beak. In nature the parents groom their babies. Think Junior wants some love and that's why he is sticking his beak in between your fingers.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update - Day 23*

Mouth : Looks clear

Droppings : have a look.. have some sort of yellowish stain.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/79dc591257868694



> Do you give Junior some love and attention? They like to be scratched on the head, especially underneath the eyes and beak. In nature the parents groom their babies. Think Junior wants some love and that's why he is sticking his beak in between your fingers.


I have always rubbed Junior's crop and behind the neck under the head area. I do it whenever I pick up Junior and every time I have to make it drink water.
Under the beak and eyes .. I keep away, as im afraid, I may touch the eye un-intentionally ..



> The grit should not be mixed with the seed. It is supposed to go in a separate dish. They don't eat a lot of it, but just take it when they need it.
> When you are not there, he should be caged, but a large enough cage that he can flap his wings, not something so small that he cannot move around in or flap. Of course he won't like it, but do it anyway. A metal dog crate works really well for a cage. They make a mess around the house, and too many things they can get into, or get injured when left alone. You do what is safer for him...............not what he likes.


I shall keep the grit separate from seeds. 
The cage I had gotten was pretty big. I will go look for something even bigger in a few days.

Other than this, im very concerned about Junior being afraid of going/being out in the balcony, or living room or any other place.
It seems afraid of its parents as well. Very strange.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Questions :

So I observed junior today, It is very sensitive to high pitch sounds like Screeching, whistling, squeaking of things. It curls up and tries to hide under anything possible. I stay on a relatively noisy street, where vehicles keep moving, braking, honking. So whistling, rattling, braking sounds are common.. and junior is very much afraid of these.
And I dont know what to do about it ..

Junior has sneezed about 8-10 times today. I assume it sneezes a few times every day. Is this normal ?

Junior no longer lays down to sleep. It will stand on one leg and appear to be asleep. I assume this is normal ?

Junior is now 33-34 days old. When do they start flying ? It flaps its wings like a helicopter and floats a few inches of ground, but doesnt fly. It can Jump on Chair/Bed and thats about it.. Why cant it fly, yet ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He will start flying soon, just give him time. Regarding the noise, there's nothing you can do about it. He will get used to it. As long as Junior eats well, you have nothing to be afraid off. You can post a photo of his cage, then we can make recommendations if needed.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

Heres an update.

Junior has grown quite big now. It can fly from the balcony straight to my desk, meaning it can change direction mid flight. So I think it has learnt to fly now.
Its eating well, and drinking just fine.

I bought it a mirror few days ago, but it doesnt seem to be interested in it at all. It almost got aggressive when I first placed the mirror near it.

I couldnt find a big enough cage so I stopped looking.
Instead, Ive started keeping Junior out in the balcony for the night. So It wakes up and pecks seeds along with other pigeons. So far its working well, as it no longer is afraid of being out in the balcony. Infact, it flies out to the balcony itself, looking for other pigeons, and walks by the balcony ledge. 
I feel it may fly out any day now.

Some concerns :
1) Juniors reflexes are poor and much slower to the other pigeons. It doesnt get spooked by things like other pigeons do. Its much more relaxed compared to other pigeons.
It walks much slower, it flies slower. Im not sure if its normal or not.

2) I notice Junior trembling sometimes. Like its body is vibrating. When I hold it it trembles for sometime, then stops. Its not continuous, but happens.

3) It still looks a lot ruffled compared to other pigeons. Its a darker shade of Grey .. other are much lighter. The black bands on its wings are not continuous.

4) Observing other pigeons, Junior now stands and sits by the ledge of the balcony. Im sure it will fly off one of these days. Junior will jump off the 20th floor, and is possible may not return to this balcony, or this tower at all.
Should I let this happen or should I keep it indoors ?


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

So Junior must be about 6 weeks old. That is still very young, in nature the parents still feeds them at that age. 

If he flies from the balcony now, he definitely won't be able to come back. When they start flying, it's much easier for them to fly downward but more difficult flying upwards.

Rather keep him indoors for another month until he is able to fly better. Unfortunately, he will lose the social bond he has with the other pigeons. Is there any way you can close up part of the balcony so that he can still go outdoors but not go over the edge? If so, you will need to use a mesh that will enable him to see outside to get used to the area, the noise and the other pigeons.

He will eventually become more wary of you, that's why he trembles when you hold him. He has been through a lot and is still very young, but will eventually catch up with the other pigeons.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Well this morning, I decided to keep junior indoors, by shutting the windows to go outside. I however, left a few inches of gap just for some ventilation.
Ive come back home in the evening, and Junior is gone. No longer anywhere in the house or Balcony.

I hope He returns just so I know hes safe and sound. In any case, I bid farewell!

Lets hope for the best!


EDIT: Yes, it was very angry for not letting him go outside. Kept flapping its wings at the window, and would get very uneasy when I try to hold it.



> He will eventually become more wary of you, that's why he trembles when you hold him. He has been through a lot and is still very young, but will eventually catch up with the other pigeons.


On the contrary, he loved it when i held it. He would fly to my knee and then climb his way to my shoulder and just stand there. The other morning, it flew by my arm in my bed and kept pecking me, until I woke up.
Damn I miss Junior already


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Lets hope he will be fine. Let us know if he return. At least you will recognize him.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Didnt get good sleep last night, anticipating Junior's return. Woke up at 6am and Junior was in the balcony. 

Junior has joined a group of 3 other Pigeons, more or less all 4 seem the same size. 
They were not interested in Seeds or Water.. Just flying/playing in the morning sun. I opened the window and called out Junior. Others flew away, Junior stayed.

I held junior, got him inside.. It dug its face between my fingers like it used to.. and jumped off to the floor walked Straight to the window and waited there.

I quickly grabbed a multi-vit and some water, and chased Junior.. 
It behaved like a Typical Teenager. Refused to open its mouth or eat. But Eventually I popped the pill down its throat.. and it flew to the railing, waited there for a few moments.. then flew off.
(Attached pic)


I used to wonder, what will junior do all day sitting under the desk, inactive and afraid of the world. I did everything I could to introduce the world to him. 
Kept it outside overnight without its will.
Played with him in the balcony everyday for hours.
Eventually he lost the fear.. he would be in the balcony by itself, but would never fly off.
And then.. he did!

I feel sad, but im still very happy for Junior!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm so glad this story has a good ending. You will see Junior from time to time. Just keep on putting down seeds and water for him and he will keep on returning. He will be mature in about 3-4 months time. Who knows, one day he might bring back a female and start a nest on your balcony. That's where he feels safe, that's where you saved his life. Well done!


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

So...

Junior decided to show up unexpectedly.

I just returned back home, and Junior was right under my desk. I dont know when did it return, I turned on the lights, and well.. Junior!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Junior has the best of both worlds now. Frying flee outside and the safety of your home. Maybe something scared him outside?


----------



## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

birdtalk said:


> Thankyou for your response.
> 
> 1) took him to 3 vets.
> First one straight away yelled at me for getting a pigeon to him, calling it a bag of diseases, and wanted to report me to the cops.
> ...


Where is your location?


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

> Junior has the best of both worlds now. Frying flee outside and the safety of your home. Maybe something scared him outside?


I dont think anything scared him outside.

This morning, junior flew on me twice, to wake me up at 6am.
I lifted it up, grabbed its bowl of seeds, opened the window, and his pals were right there waiting at the balcony. Junior started pecking seeds, I returned in 30 mins.. but they had flown away.

I returned from work this evening, to find junior, right below my desk. I have no idea when did he return.

Im very happy with this arrangement. Im glad Junior has something to do.

As I type right now, junior has climbed up my shoulder and is pecking my ear.




Ladygrey said:


> Where is your location?


Abu Dhabi


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Pigeons love chopped up raw unsalted peanuts. You can add some to his food, he might take a while before eating them. But they really love them. You can offer this to him as a treat once in a while.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi,
Junior has returned after 3 days. I didnt even see junior in the mornings. Since today was my day off, I finally spotted Junior in my balcony mid afternoon and called it.
It heard Junior and im glad it didnt fly away like other pigeons did, as its copying instincts of other pigeons when they spot humans.

Also I was really stressed as I can see a dead pigeon on the roof of neighboring tower, where many pigeons reside under the Tank. The other pigeons seem to be pecking on the dead one.
I feel like not letting him fly out anymore.

Anyhow, Juniors droppings seem very very dark.. like blackish.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/2c92471268583864

Also, Junior seems to have changed its liking for seeds. It now Pecks on these tiny seeds and prefers mostly the black ones.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/c339681268583894


Other than that, He seems to be fine overall.

EDIT:
Also, this feather in its tail seems to have been bitten off by something.
Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/8e3d871268613544




Marina B said:


> Pigeons love chopped up raw unsalted peanuts. You can add some to his food, he might take a while before eating them. But they really love them. You can offer this to him as a treat once in a while.


I bought some when I read your message few days back. But junior was not around.
Do I peel off the skin/coating as well ?
Also, you mention to give it once a while as a treat? why not everyday or regularly ? Just curious.


----------



## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

Peanuts are high in fat, so that's why it's best to not overdo it.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can just chop up the peanuts into small pieces and put some in his food. As Friend John said, peanuts have a very high fat content. I only feed my pigeons peanuts once a week.

Junior will eat all sorts of food outside on the street unfortunately and this will affect his droppings. It's your choice if you want him to fly free outside or keep him inside your apartment. I think it will be cruel to keep him inside for the rest of his life, especially now that he's used to spending time outside. He might not live as long outside as being in captivity, but at least will have the choice to find a mate and to reproduce. Unfortunately, there will be a day when you don't see him around anymore and you will never know.....


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi this morning I got hold of Junior in the balcony, again after a long time.

Junior's left eye seems to be swollen and half shut. He opens the eye perfectly fine at times.. and I feel the vision seems fine as well. _I didnt spend a lot of time with him, I rushed._
Still, its swollen. Im not sure whats caused the swelling though.
Pic: http://www.imagebam.com/image/db267a1272731484

Is there anything I can do ?
Ive kept junior inside for now, and left for work


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Ok Junior is no longer opening that eye.
When I try to open it .. its watery. Im not sure what has caused it ..

Droppings seems normal. Junior Ate quite a bit once I got it inside.
Im not sure what to do.. any suggestions ?

EDIT :
I have been searching what this may be..
- Junior has no other bruises or injuries so fight with another bird seems unlikely.
- No signs of any breathing issues.
- Droppings are normal ( I have been looking at Juniors droppings since a long time, and there seems no change in droppings).
- I checked it thoroughly for Mites, flies, etc, nothing. It seems clean.

Abnormal signs..

The only thing abnormal Junior is doing is biting my fingers. Yes not pecking, but literally biting the soft skin between my fingers. Im inclined to believe it feels insecure as its not using both its eyes to see me or my hands/fingers.


So far it points out to "one eye cold". But im hesitant to start with any antibiotics.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Try to rinse the eye with lukewarm sterile water. Hopefully it's only some dust in the eye causing the problem and will clear up by itself. If there's a change in his eating habits, then one should get concerned. Good thing you were able to get hold of him.


----------



## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, you could make a cup of chamomile tea (without added sugar) or a mallow infusion and wash twice a day his eye with one of them (of course, be careful to find the right temperature, not cold not hot, slightly warm). You can use an eye dropper.

I don't know if you can find something similar in your country but you could try to look for a product similar to this one:

https://www.cocooncenter.co.uk/bausch-lomb-ophtaxia-singledose-10-x-5ml/20726.html

it's a sterile solution for eye wash. I used it for birds and even for myself. Here you can find it in pharmacy.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*



Marina B said:


> Try to rinse the eye with lukewarm sterile water. Hopefully it's only some dust in the eye causing the problem and will clear up by itself. If there's a change in his eating habits, then one should get concerned. Good thing you were able to get hold of him.


Hi,
I rinsed its eye with warmish water, 3-4 times. No improvements so far.

There are one of two possibilities.
1) Junior's nails have grown big and sharp. So much so its given me sharp scratches on my Hands and Legs.
Junior often scratches its head with its leg/foot many times a day. I think it must have accidentally scratched/poked its eye-lid ? Im inclined to believe this.

2) some kind of infection. Cant pin point exactly what. So far, I haven't let Junior fly out. Its been grumpy about it. I dont wanna take a chance until its eye gets better.

Junior is eating fine. Pecking a wide variety of seeds. Drinking fine. Droppings seem fine. Flying all over my room.. its Fav spot seems to be my laptop screen 

Left eye-lid remains closed most of the times. its about 30% open sometimes. and fully open when I pick it up.



> Hi, you could make a cup of chamomile tea (without added sugar) or a mallow infusion and wash twice a day his eye with one of them (of course, be careful to find the right temperature, not cold not hot, slightly warm). You can use an eye dropper.
> 
> I don't know if you can find something similar in your country but you could try to look for a product similar to this one:
> 
> ...


The camomile tea infusion seems difficult. As I mostly visit the supermarket and they have the tea bags which are just regular tea with essence.

As for the sterile solution, I shall try to find it tomorrow. Since its bosch and laumb, im confident I might get it. Lets see


----------



## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

If the nails are too long and sharp you could start to file them with a nail file.

It's also possible to trim them but it's needed a little experience because it's easy to start a bleeding (especially if the nails are black).


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

Hi,
I came across some post where a Parrot had a similar issue. So some Vet recommended [Dexamethasone 1mg with Gentamycin Sulphate 5mg] eye drops for the Parrot.

I found the same with local pharmacy, and applied One drop in Junior's eye. It protested, im sure it caused some discomfort. So I left it alone.

After 3 hours or so, The swelling of eye-lid had reduced by 70%. Both its eyes were wide open. Have applied a drop again now.. I want this to completely remove the inflammation of eye-lid. So I can fly it off.

It hates being inside now. Im pretty sure it considers me evil now. So I hope this inflammation is gone by tomorrow, so I can see it off.




> If the nails are too long and sharp you could start to file them with a nail file.
> 
> It's also possible to trim them but it's needed a little experience because it's easy to start a bleeding (especially if the nails are black).


Yes the nails are long, and very very sharp. Its scratched both my shoulders and neck and feet. Some of them did bleed a little.

Yes the nails are completely black. and I have no experience in filing/trimming nails. So Ill leave it be.


----------



## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

birdtalk said:


> Hi,
> I came across some post where a Parrot had a similar issue. So some Vet recommended [Dexamethasone 1mg with Gentamycin Sulphate 5mg] eye drops for the Parrot.
> 
> I found the same with local pharmacy, and applied One drop in Junior's eye. It protested, im sure it caused some discomfort. So I left it alone.
> ...



A way to medicate and examine his eyes, is you can roll him in a towel, like a burrito. A thicker towel works best, hold his wings down with both hands, lay him on the towel one wing down on his side keeping your hand on the other and start rolling, turn up the bottom of the towel toward his head, and complete the rolling up, nice and snug, fold down the edge where is head is to get to his eyes to medicate.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

*Update*

I let Junior Fly-Off.
It definitely was not very happy in-doors any more. The moment I opened the window, and took it to the balcony, it flew off.

Lets hope he stays strong and healthy!


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I really hope he will be fine. At least he knows where to return to for food and shelter.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would have given the eye drops for a week before releasing. It doesn't really cause him any discomfort, and can actually soothe the eye.


----------



## birdtalk (Apr 29, 2019)

Jay3 said:


> I would have given the eye drops for a week before releasing. It doesn't really cause him any discomfort, and can actually soothe the eye.


I had decided to use the eye-drops for about 4 days, and keep him inside for about a week, till I was satisfied hes fine.
But Like Marina said earlier, as he grows he will become wary of me (or humans), thats precisely what happened.

He got extremely uncomfortable when i lifted him, or touched him. Started Biting my fingers instead of pecking it lightly like he did a few weeks earlier..

Im for certain he hated being indoors. Coz the moment I took him outside, he flew away.. didnt bother about food nor water..

I know he visits me. I know he eats the seeds left in the bowl under the desk, as the seeds left outside are usually completely wiped out by other pigeons bigger and stronger to him.

At this point I believe hes like a rebellious teenager. And its okay.. as long as hes Happy, Healthy and Safe.


----------

