# How to tell the cocks from the hens...



## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Hey there all y'all out there in pigeon land. 
A few questions re the sex of my birds. First of all, I have been told that their behaviour is a big indicator of their gender. But I guess I need more specifics. At this point, they all are acting like boys! Cooing, chasing each other, etc. 
So, if one is chasing the other, does that mean the one being chased is another cock- or a hen that the chasing bird "likes" . Are the boys the only ones that Coo? What about territorial pecking at each other from one box perch to the next one over? These guys are young still-3-4 mos- so that is another thing I am wondering about- are they supposed to be acting this way at this age? 

Also, as for dividing breeders/non flyers from flyers, do the male and female flyers then need to be separated to keep them from ending up on "Teen Mom, the Pigeon Edition"?


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

LOL teen mom pigeon addition.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

I may only be of little help. The flyers "yb team" section, shouldnt have any nest boxes to prevent the young birds from pairing off and becoming parents. 

If it helps I thought I had all cocks at first also.
Now Im only shure some are. lol


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Well.....you'll figure it out...thats what my mentor told me, and well I'm starting to figure out whose who, you'll be able to tell the cocks got that evil eye and look well....cocky and the hens look very feminine.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

newtopidgeons said:


> I may only be of little help. The flyers "yb team" section, shouldnt have any nest boxes to prevent the young birds from pairing off and becoming parents.
> 
> If it helps I thought I had all cocks at first also.
> Now Im only shure some are. lol


Ok, well that does help. A few of them definitely seem more like girls, smaller, etc. Of course the one my son named "Rico" seems to be a girl- Ooops! 

I named one "Mr Big Stuff" cuz he pushes everyone around- pretty sure he is a cock. 

And, I guess more will be revealed!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

A cooing and chasing indicate male behavior. The funny thing about pigeon is that they may not know that the one they are chasing is also a cock!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ok... you have birds chasing each other around.. that happens... so what you need to have is nest boxes and nest bowls.. when they pair off.. guess what..someone lays eggs!.. then you know you have a hen..that is prolly paired..so you need to keep watch and see who her mate may be.. then you have a pair..( if it is only two eggs that is)...


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Hmm- I was hoping that they could tell if the other bird was a cock- silly birds.
Well, not ready for babies yet- heck, these guys are just babies! But I was kinda trying to get an idea so I can pick out who to put on the race team, and who to keep as breeders-Ya know, so I can approximately have pairs, and not end up with 5 hens and one cock- or visa-versa. It'll all come out in the wash. Plus, I was looking closer after feeding time today, and there are definitely some birds that are smaller, and they have not been part of the cooing and chasing crew.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NayNay said:


> Hmm- I was hoping that they could tell if the other bird was a cock- silly birds.
> Well, not ready for babies yet- heck, these guys are just babies! But I was kinda trying to get an idea so I can pick out who to put on the race team, and who to keep as breeders-Ya know, so I can approximately have pairs, and not end up with 5 hens and one cock- or visa-versa. It'll all come out in the wash. Plus, I was looking closer after feeding time today, and there are definitely some birds that are smaller, and they have not been part of the cooing and chasing crew.


and....
stuff and junk...you put the good flyers on the race team... oh well Im confused...lol..


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

You will notice the cocks will often do a tail drag, however i have seen hens do it as well but it was different and not as agressive. Someone on here, it might have been spirit wings said "if it lays an egg it is a hen, if it doesnt lay an egg it still could be a hen"...(one of my favorites). but nonetheless you will get it figured out just watch the behaviour. 

regards
Hank


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> and....
> stuff and junk...you put the good flyers on the race team... oh well Im confused...lol..


Well, first year for me, and the local club president said to expect massive losses - he lost all his birds the first year. So, That puts me in a quandary- I only have 14 birds, so I kinda need to keep most of them back as breeders for next year. I'm not actually even going to race this year officially, because I don't have a clock yet. But I want to practice training, and perhaps send some birds on the race truck just for fun and the experience. 

My son and I were working on trap training today, and 2 birds just couldn't figure it out. He suggested we keep them as breeders, So, I pointed out the dilemma to him- if we keep the ones who are too timid or stupid to hop through the trap as breeders, then our YB's next year might be like them. But if we fly the ones that aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, they might not make it home! 

Add to this that I waited a bit too long, and it is risky to fly any of them. So, we shall see. I have 8 picked out as for sure breeders. That leaves 6 to fly and or race. Sad but true- the expendables, that I will train carefully before flying, and will release when conditions are favorable- and who will hopefully prove to me that they have the right stuff. If not, I have some of their nestmates to start my breeding from.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

NayNay said:


> Well, first year for me, and the local club president said to expect massive losses - he lost all his birds the first year. So, That puts me in a quandary- I only have 14 birds, so I kinda need to keep most of them back as breeders for next year. I'm not actually even going to race this year officially, because I don't have a clock yet. But I want to practice training, and perhaps send some birds on the race truck just for fun and the experience.
> 
> My son and I were working on trap training today, and 2 birds just couldn't figure it out. He suggested we keep them as breeders, So, I pointed out the dilemma to him- if we keep the ones who are too timid or stupid to hop through the trap as breeders, then our YB's next year might be like them. But if we fly the ones that aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, they might not make it home!
> 
> Add to this that I waited a bit too long, and it is risky to fly any of them. So, we shall see. I have 8 picked out as for sure breeders. That leaves 6 to fly and or race. Sad but true- the expendables, that I will train carefully before flying, and will release when conditions are favorable- and who will hopefully prove to me that they have the right stuff. If not, I have some of their nestmates to start my breeding from.



Try to remember that the when making cookies ( people still do that right?) the ones that start out looking the best don't always end up that way and the screwed up one sometimes turn out to be the best.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

some people can tell sex of the birds by the shape of their head.. i can most of the time, to me the hens have a smaller rounder head and " soft " eye, the cocks have a more flat top, bigger wattle and " meaner " eye. another way is to follow the breast bone done to the vent region were it cone to " V " if it is close together it's a cock, if you can feel an opening that you can fit the tip of your finger in it's a female, given room for eggs to pass. that is what i was told


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

rpalmer said:


> Try to remember that the when making cookies ( people still do that right?) the ones that start out looking the best don't always end up that way and the screwed up one sometimes turn out to be the best.


I bake awesome cookies- they look good and taste good too!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NayNay said:


> I bake awesome cookies- they look good and taste good too!


I think you missed the point..lol.. or maybe that was on purpose..lol..


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

I guess I missed the point. I thought you were saying that you never know till you eat the cookie- fly the bird. I was joking around cuz I actually do make homemade cookies, and they look good, and "fly" well. 

But, along that same metaphor, if I burn all the cookies, I won't know if any of them were any good or not.
My bakery is just starting out, so some of the cookies have to stay in the display case or I could easily end up with an empty loft. Need cookies to breed cookies, and once we have more homegrown cookies than we know what to do with, we can fly them all, train early, and let the basket be the boss of quality, determine whether we kept the right cookies- or need to switch the ingredients around so we meet our cookie goals- smart little cookies with an independent streak, and some speed. With those goals, I feel like my cookies can be evaluated without tossing them out into the yard and seeing who wants to eat them- lol. I have observed their problem solving skills in the loft, their strategies, their leadership, boldness vs cautiousness, etc. 

But, then again, I am a newbie with a creative/stubborn/ Independence streak- so, I learn everything I can, read voraciously, and think about this stuff obsessively. And then, ultimately, I'll end up not following some advise that I should have- and also sometimes not following advise that I believe would have been counterproductive. I learn from my mistakes. We'll see how that works out for me in the end.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NayNay said:


> I guess I missed the point. I thought you were saying that you never know till you eat the cookie- fly the bird. I was joking around cuz I actually do make homemade cookies, and they look good, and "fly" well.
> 
> But, along that same metaphor, if I burn all the cookies, I won't know if any of them were any good or not.
> My bakery is just starting out, so some of the cookies have to stay in the display case or I could easily end up with an empty loft. Need cookies to breed cookies, and once we have more homegrown cookies than we know what to do with, we can fly them all, train early, and let the basket be the boss of quality, determine whether we kept the right cookies- or need to switch the ingredients around so we meet our cookie goals- smart little cookies with an independent streak, and some speed. With those goals, I feel like my cookies can be evaluated without tossing them out into the yard and seeing who wants to eat them- lol. I have observed their problem solving skills in the loft, their strategies, their leadership, boldness vs cautiousness, etc.
> ...


lol.. that is funny... but sometimes it does not hurt to follow the recipe.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> lol.. that is funny... but sometimes it does not hurt to follow the recipe.


Yes- Recipes point me in the right direction, but after a few batches, I tweak the recipe to make it my own.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> some people can tell sex of the birds by the shape of their head.. i can most of the time, to me the hens have a smaller rounder head and " soft " eye, the cocks have a more flat top, bigger wattle and " meaner " eye. another way is to follow the breast bone done to the vent region were it cone to " V " if it is close together it's a cock, if you can feel an opening that you can fit the tip of your finger in it's a female, given room for eggs to pass. that is what i was told


That should work, but, it might take an experience or "eye" for that. The vent distance opening might be 1/2 inch for hen and 1/4 inch for cock. I am just guessing for now.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

NayNay said:


> I guess I missed the point. I thought you were saying that you never know till you eat the cookie- fly the bird. I was joking around cuz I actually do make homemade cookies, and they look good, and "fly" well.
> 
> But, along that same metaphor, if I burn all the cookies, I won't know if any of them were any good or not.
> My bakery is just starting out, so some of the cookies have to stay in the display case or I could easily end up with an empty loft. Need cookies to breed cookies, and once we have more homegrown cookies than we know what to do with, we can fly them all, train early, and let the basket be the boss of quality, determine whether we kept the right cookies- or need to switch the ingredients around so we meet our cookie goals- smart little cookies with an independent streak, and some speed. With those goals, I feel like my cookies can be evaluated without tossing them out into the yard and seeing who wants to eat them- lol. I have observed their problem solving skills in the loft, their strategies, their leadership, boldness vs cautiousness, etc.
> ...


You will go far with that. There is no gospel, but some people think so. Initially you do what others have done, then modify your own. That is one way to improve. You just have to test your own theory though through practice. Some birds might suffer though. I try to think out of the box and in the box and if I give up I might just go to Jack-in-the-Box. LOL!


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## mikel (Jun 9, 2011)

just wondering,ive seen some people trying to determine gender of baby chicks(chicken) by looking at their vents,is it applicable to pigeons?


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

mikel said:


> just wondering,ive seen some people trying to determine gender of baby chicks(chicken) by looking at their vents,is it applicable to pigeons?


this is what i was told to do to tell the hens from cocks....hope it helps

follow the breast bone done to the vent region were it cone to " V " if it is close together it's a cock, if you can feel an opening that you can fit the tip of your finger in it's a female, given room for eggs to pass. that is what i was told


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

mikel said:


> just wondering,ive seen some people trying to determine gender of baby chicks(chicken) by looking at their vents,is it applicable to pigeons?


Yes it is. Just look for a smiling vent or a frowning vent while holding the squab upside down. You can do this at banding time and get two things done with one handling. Search the form to see which has the smile and which has the frown. But if you put the information on a breeding card you will know in time.

Take care and enjoy your birds.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

rpalmer said:


> Yes it is. Just look for a smiling vent or a frowning vent while holding the squab upside down. You can do this at banding time and get two things done with one handling. Search the form to see which has the smile and which has the frown. But if you put the information on a breeding card you will know in time.
> 
> Take care and enjoy your birds.


Ok- this is interesting, but, is a smiling vent a boy or a girl? Room for an egg to come out makes sense too. It'll all come out in the wash anyway, when breeding time comes- but I like information.


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