# mixed breeding



## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

I may already be seeing the results of this question but I need to know for sure. Is it possible for a hen to copulate with two cock birds and have there offspring carry the characteristics of both cock birds? >Kevin


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Only if the second cockbird happens to sneak in before the second egg is laid.

Or well, I suppose any time. But you obviously wouldn't have both in one baby.


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*Not so sure*



MaryOfExeter said:


> Only if the second cockbird happens to sneak in before the second egg is laid.
> 
> Or well, I suppose any time. But you obviously wouldn't have both in one baby.


 I will try and put a picture with this thread and a little more information to go with it, If it was that easy to see I would not have asked so please stay with me on this I do admire your knowladge. Forgive me if I am wrong but I thought it was Becky/////Mary?>Kevin


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*The answer is yes as Becky pointer out.*GEORGE


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Even if a hen mates with multiple cocks, apparently only one sperm will be fertilizing one egg. If a squab has to get both characteristics, then both sperm has to fertilize one single egg which in turn has to develop to one single embroy, don't think thats possible.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

But the theory on "mosaics" is that the egg is fertilized by 2 different sperm, thus 2 differing color patterns in one bird.


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*2 cocks one bird*



george simon said:


> *The answer is yes as Becky pointer out.*GEORGE


 Gerge, I understand that Becky has said yes but she said (But you obviously wouldn't have both in one baby.) The situation here is I believe It happened. I will work on those pictures, I have 5 to take in all and make sure the are postable, this may take a few days. >Kevin
PS: stay with me George I do trust your knowladge and You being the same age as my Father I have learned to listen


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

pigeonmama said:


> But the theory on "mosaics" is that the egg is fertilized by 2 different sperm, thus 2 differing color patterns in one bird.


Hmm, didn't know that. Was searching the internet for the same and found this page http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/mosaics.html

It has many interesting parts but this one caught my eye _......."though 2 fathers are not generally necessary to provide differences among sperms. A similar explanation is used to account for gynandromorphs in honey bees, and is termed androgenesis." _


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

[=


sreeshs said:


> Even if a hen mates with multiple cocks, apparently only one sperm will be fertilizing one egg. If a squab has to get both characteristics, then both sperm has to fertilize one single egg which in turn has to develop to one single embroy, don't think thats possible.


*Hi Sreeshs, I will quote from the book Breeding and Inheritance in Pigeons, by Axel Sell,on page 131 "MOSAICS; In some very exceptional cases quite mormal-coloured parents produce young which will not fit with any genetic rule.Mosaics are individuals but they are composed,as if two birds were melted down and made into one(Hollander 1983).Examples of Mosaics are given in Figures 132,133,and 135.The birds show,in different parts of the plumage, colorations which should exclude each other in one bird. Hollander(1975)explains many Mosaics by bipaternity.Instead of one sperm only, in these exceptional cases,two or more are responsible for the impregnation of the egg. Thus a Mosaic might have two fathers, or in the case of heterozygous cocks two different sperms of the same cock are responsible for different parts." (End of quote)So this could well be the case with the bird in this thread.* GEORGE


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*reading*



sreeshs said:


> Hmm, didn't know that. Was searching the internet for the same and found this page http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/mosaics.html
> 
> It has many interesting parts but this one caught my eye _......."though 2 fathers are not generally necessary to provide differences among sperms. A similar explanation is used to account for gynandromorphs in honey bees, and is termed androgenesis." _


Shreeshs, that was indeed some very interesting reading. I do have to say that I am not considering mine to be mosaic but having a very good chance of being bypairented. I am charging the bateries for the camera, but after all this reading I am thinking I will never know the true answer, lets see. >Kevin


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks George  Hope we will soon get to see the pictures from Kevin, already excited


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Can't wait for pictures  Is it the color or something else that leads you to believe it has the traits of two different cockbirds?


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

My guess is that a 'mosaic' pigeon is a form of Genetic chimeraism. See Chimera article below.........

Typically seen in non-human zoology (but also discovered to a rare extent in humans), a chimera is an animal that has two or more different populations of genetically distinct cells that originated in different zygotes; if the different cells emerged from the same zygote, it is called a mosaicism.

Chimeras are formed from four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos fused together) or from three parent cells (a fertilized egg is fused with an unfertilized egg or a fertilized egg is fused with an extra sperm). Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting animal is a mixture of tissues.



Full article here....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

would be very rare, here is some info on how the egg is fertilized.

"In contrast to most other taxa, where only a single sperm enters the ovum, polyspermy is typical in birds. Several sperm enter the germinal disc region, hydrolyzing the IPVL via the acrosome reaction of the sperm, whereby the release of enzymes from the sperm acrosome enables the sperm nucleus to enter the ovum. However, only a single spermatozoon fuses with the female pronucleus and the remaining sperm are shifted to the periphery of the germinal disc and play no further part in development. Fertilization includes the penetration of ovum by sperm as well as the fusion of the male and female pronuclei (syngamy). Because embryo development begins almost immediately, many cell divisions have occurred by the time the ovum has become incorporated into the egg and the egg is laid (in most species) 24 hr later."


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