# Sick pigeon, eyes closed



## okok

Yesterday afternoon we found a pigeon walking suspiciously on a busy road. We picked it up, with no resistance on its part, and brought it home. We built a closed cage out of wire mesh to put it in. It drunk a little bit, but we aren't sure it ate anything.

In the evening it made attempts to fly, so we thought it had recovered from whatever trauma that made it walk so strangely and not fly earlier that day, but we decided to leave it in the cage overnight to make sure it was well before we release it in the morning.

This morning, however, I found it standing on its feet with its eyes closed and with the head slightly to the side. It almost didn't respond to sounds I made, and when I tried to touch it, it recoiled, and still, with the eyes closed. I could not see any dropping on the ground (but it is dirt and leaves, so perhaps there was some which I failed to spot).

Is there anything I can do at this stage to help it? What can the problem be?


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## John_D

Hi

At this stage any 'diagnosis' would just be guesswork.

Can you check inside the beak to see if the mouth is reasonably pink(ish) and free from any discharge, slime, etc. Also check for any lumps or boils on unfeathered parts, swellings around joints. Those are just to try to narrow it down initially.

I'd suggest keeping the bird inside (in the cage you've constructed} if it isn't already, and lining the floor with plain paper such as kitchen towel. That makes it easier to see if it does pass any droppings. 

You could provide it with, rather than plain water, a small pot of rehydration mix (can be made from tablespoon glucose, honey or sugar plus teaspoon salt, in 1 liter of water, and presented slightly warm). It may not need rehydrating, but this acts as electrolytes and can give the system a little boost if needed.

If you've offered seed, then if it is in a small dish and the bird attempts to eat, should be some evidence of this through spillage.

The state of droppings, when produced, will be an initial guide however.

Do you know if the bird is an adult feral or a youngster? If in doubt, a pic will help. We can then look at feeding, when the bird is stable.

Let's see how it responds to these steps, then consider what the problem may be.


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## pdpbison

Hi okok,



Can you post some good close up in focus well lit images of it's freshest poops?

And, some images of the Pigeon himself, from his own Eye level?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## okok

Thank you both very much.

I think my pigeon is a young adult. There is nothing out of the ordinary in the mouth and the entire body of the pigeon looks perfectly normal. There is, however, a big lump of dry droppings behind the tail, and beneath it some fresh droppings that seem to be dripping rather than dropping.

Since the morning (now it is past midday where I am) the pigeon's eyes have been constantly closed, even when I touched it and took it in my hands and while it tried to struggle to release itself from my hands. But it is not due to some physical obstacle. I tried to gently open the eyelids and could do it easily. Now its head is falling again and again to the side at it stands, like someone who falls asleep while standing, but this happens every few seconds or so.

Yesterday it drank some water, but now it won't eat anything voluntarily, if it won't even open its eyes.

Earlier today I dripped some water into its mouth. I'll try making that dehydration mix, but at this point I have very little hope.


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## okok

I just tried to give the pigeon some liquids prepared according to John's instructions. While holding it I felt the muscle tension dropped substantially since the last time I held it. Now its grip of my fingers was weak, and its head almost fell. I don't know how much of the water I dripped into its throat actually went in. The moment I released the head it fell, and much of the water dripped out of its mouth. When I put it back in the cage it made a few steps in a circle, everything with its eyes closed, and settled in one place with its head tilted to the side.

It does not look like there is much hope. I don't know whether I should try bothering it again with another hydration attempt later, or just let it lie until the end, which does not seem far now, with the weakening muscle tension and the constantly closed eyes.


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## pdpbison

Hi okok,



Please get their Vent area clean so they can poop normally.

Hold them vertically form behind, at a Sink, run the Tap Water at a slightly cool temp...let it run over the Vent area, and, use your finger tips to massage off ALL possible matter which has adhered to the Feathers there.

Blot dry as best you can...and, set them up so they can have warmth and be out of any drafts.


This poop/urates clinging to the Vent Feathers is typical of advanced Canker illnes.


Do you have any prior experience with sick Pigeons, or know anyone in your area who does? Anyone who might have routine Meds?


Images of fresh poops please, soon as you can.


Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## okok

Thanks Phil. I tried to clean the dry matter earlier, just as you suggested, but without much success. Perhaps it I try for longer I'll have more success, but I am wondering whether at this stage there is point putting the pigeon into all this suffering.

No, have no experience with sick pigeons (I have some experience with healthy pigeons only), and I don't know anyone who does. I called my vet but she admitted she had no experience with birds too and had less advice for me than what I got here.

What might there be to see in pictures of the poops? It is hard to see the fresh material, which drips over the dry material, but it has unusually bad smell.


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## John_D

It may well be too late (they are often extremely sick if they can be caught easily) but do you have any bird / animal medications to hand?


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## okok

I don't have any animal medication at hand, and as I wrote in a previous answer, my local vet does not know much about birds.


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## pdpbison

Hi okok,



You must get that adhering fecal/urate material removed absolutely a.s.a.p.

Canker is one illness which can cause changes ni the viscopsity of the Urates, so the material begins to assume a liquid form like 'Paint', and, this then begins clinging to the Feathers around the Vent, and, builds up, eventually clogging the Vent area, and, the Bird dies from this being clogged, even if they could be save by intervention and right meds and so on...so, please, get their Vent area as clean as possible, as explained in the prior post.


I get in Pigons of this same description fairly often, and, usually I am able to manage their condition for a full recovery and release.

None the less, as John suggests, by the time it is this far along, it is indeed very serious, and, usually the Bird is also starving to death, very weak, and, has or is prone to secondary illnesses also.

Depending on the conditions of his Esophagus, Crop, and Proventriculus, it is possible he would have to be tube fed liquid Nutriments for a week or two, prior to being allowed to eat small whole Seeds.

Usually the Bird in this condition will need rehydration prior to receiving Medicines, unless he has been drinking alright and making enough Urates to show his system is adequately hydrated.

'Metronidazole' is the usual medicine of choice.

Tropical Fish Stores carry this in a 100 percent form, called 'Fishzole' or maybe other names, and, that would be one way to get it, but make sure it is JUST the Metronidazole and nothing else along with it.

It's a handfull...to manage the recovery of one in this condition, but, it can be done, and I do it all the time.


Find a way to keep him warm, and out of any drafts or AC drafts...add a few drops of Apple Cider Vinegar to his Water...let us know if he seems to be drinking alright.


Phil
Lv


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## okok

ok, I was able to clean the dry feces under running water, then I dried up the bird as much as I could and made it swallow some more water.

When I opened its mouth I could now notice a round yellow body deep inside which I didn't notice before.

So far there isn't any change in the behavior of my pigeon. It struggles very weakly when held, and keeps its eyes closed all the time, even when struggling, and the head keeps dropping.

It sits in a warm, safe and well-ventilated place. I'll see if I can get Metronidazole. How exactly should this medicine be given, if I manage to find some?

Many thanks for your help!


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## Dobato

okok said:


> ok, I was able to clean the dry feces under running water, then I dried up the bird as much as I could and made it swallow some more water.
> 
> When I opened its mouth I could now notice a round yellow body deep inside which I didn't notice before.
> 
> So far there isn't any change in the behavior of my pigeon. It struggles very weakly when held, and keeps its eyes closed all the time, even when struggling, and the head keeps dropping.
> 
> It sits in a warm, safe and well-ventilated place. I'll see if I can get Metronidazole. How exactly should this medicine be given, if I manage to find some?
> 
> Many thanks for your help!



With the Metronidazole, I myself find the is a greater distribution of a brand called Metroplex and by Seachem, but you can also look for the FishZole by Thomas Labs, just make sure it is 100% Metronidazole if you get something other than these two brands, as many companies mix things into their Metronidazole that would harm a pigeon.

Also, a good deal of the time they can also have bacterial infections as well (the infection you see in the threat is most likely caused by a protozoa and is called Trichomoniasis and Metronidazole is the med to treat this), so see if they also have a med called Tripe-Sulfa by API. I will help you mix and dose both meds.

In the mean time I think you little one would appreciate a bit of a boost in energy form some sugar water. You can make this by adding 1 teaspoon of sugar or honey to 60mL (2 oz.) of warm water, and stirring in and giving him 5mL of this 2-3 times through the day (this is 1 teaspoon). You can do this with an eye dropper dribbling a drop or two at a time to the side of his beak, make sure his head is slightly angled down, so anything he does not swallow runs out and not down his throat. Each 1mL id equal to about 20 drops, so you will need to get about 100 drops into him to equal 1 teaspoon full (adding a little more for what you feel was spilled while giving).

Karyn


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## John_D

If you can get it, dosage will depend on what form it comes in. Probably depends on where you are, too.

Fishzole, as Phil says, is Metronidazole. I have it in 250mg tablet form (contains 100% Metronidazole). It's use as sold is primarily to dissolve in acquarium water, so the bird dose will not be anything like a whole tablet. One way of dosing, posted some years back by an experienced rehabber, is stated as 



> We take a 250 mg tablet of metronidazole, crush it into a very fine powder, add 10 cc of sterile water, pour into a small container with a lid and shake thoroughly. For a 300 gram pigeon the dosage I use is .30, 2 x day (morning and night 12 hours apart). The suspended medicine must be shaken really well and dosage drawn up immediately so the powder doesn't settle to the bottom. It must be kept refrigerated. Rule of thumb: if you mix it, refrigerate it.


This is the original thread - I personally cannot vouch for the info or otherwise

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-with-fish-zole-in-water-21448.html

(I would expect Fishzole to dissolve - else it woulodn't be much good for a fish tank I guess)

Wonder if the vet who doesn't know birds would supply it anyway?


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## okok

Thank you for the information. I hope that by accepting these long-distance diagnosis and treatment suggestions I won't be causing more harm than good.

Whereas earlier today my pigeon sat quietly most of the time, now I found it walking and circles with the head tilted, and occasionally flapping its wings as if trying to fly, and like before -- all this with closed eyes, so it was also bumping into the walls of the cage (which are, luckily, somewhat flexible). Looks like it is in great discomfort, perhaps even hallucinating.


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## John_D

That its eyes stay closed is strange, unless the eyes are watering and causing it discomfort.

If it is a little more mobile, that sounds a bit better. I'd certainly continue with the rehydration mix to try to perk his system up.

Does he feel very thin, prominent keel, or reasonably solid in the hand? 

The problem, too often, is that when there is no experienced person on hand and no vet (a) with sufficient knowledge and (b) who would also accept a pigeon as a patient without just putting it down, then what anyone can offer long distance will vary between a pretty firm diagnosis based on familiarity with symptoms, and what is 'most likely'. The suggestions thus far will not harm the bird, but if it is very sick from a cause no-one can establish then they may not do much good. That's about the best one can say.


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## okok

Yes, the closed eyes are strange. They are not watering and there is nothing else that prevents them from opening, and as I mentioned before, I can easily pull the eyelid down and open the eyes with my finger.

Earlier today the entire body felt very weak, with very little muscle resistance, somewhat like holding a dead body, but later it regained its strength and pushed firmly against my hands when I held it. The head, however, keeps falling to the side.

My feeding attempts aren't going well now. Last time I tried not only the head was dropping like before, but also the liquid went out of the mouth, and not in the clear form in which it was given, but in a milky colour. I am going to try again now.


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## okok

I was now able to see the droppings clearly for the first time. Here is a close-up. It is watery and greenish.


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## Dobato

okok said:


> My feeding attempts aren't going well now. Last time I tried not only the head was dropping like before, but also the liquid went out of the mouth, and not in the clear form in which it was given, but in a milky colour. I am going to try again now.


Okok, you will have better luck if you wrap in him what is called a "buritto" method, this is where we use a small towel to wrap and gently restrain a bird to make it is easier to work with the bird on any medical and feeding issues, here is a post by Phil on how to do this:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=577014&postcount=42

The dropping does not look good at all, how are you making out on the meds, your best bet will be a tropical fish store, and not a regular pet shop (although if that's all that is in your area, do try them). Do work on getting some fluids into him, both regular and the sugar water for some energy.

The instructions you get from us will be based on us helping a good deal of sick and injured birds over the years, so we not be experimenting or telling you to do things that will bring harm to your little guy.

Karyn


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## November-X-Scourge

You could put hin in a donut, a towel wrapped into the shape of a donut, to support his head. Lining his cage with another towel also would be good, as it would be harder to scatter everywhere like separate paper towels. Don't give up hope yet too, even completely lost cases czn recover pretty well! If you cant wash away the poo, you may do what I did, and cut off the feathers. VERY CAREFULLY as not to hurt poor little pij. Also, as has been said, use metronidazole to treat the canker stuff this pij has in his throat.


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## okok

With the help of another person and by supporting the head I am now able to give the pigeon water and administer the medication (which I was able to obtain from my vet) without losing a drop.

The pigeon looks very sick, but its condition has remained stable for many hours. I hope the treatment I am now giving it will quicken its recovery rather than prolong the suffering it is probably in.

I thank you all for your advice.


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## Dobato

okok said:


> With the help of another person and by supporting the head I am now able to give the pigeon water and administer the medication (which I was able to obtain from my vet) without losing a drop.
> 
> The pigeon looks very sick, but its condition has remained stable for many hours. I hope the treatment I am now giving it will quicken its recovery rather than prolong the suffering it is probably in.
> 
> I thank you all for your advice.


Glad your vet was able to help. Can you let us know what meds he prescribed and at what doses (strength should be on the bottle). Glad you are now managing to get some fluids into him, as this is important right now.

Karyn


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## pdpbison

Hi okok,



All of this is typical enough of advanced Canker illness.

Trying to administer anything into the Mouth is very dangerous and will likely cause a disaster from liquids or other materials going into his Wind Pipe instead of going into or through his somewhat blocked-obturated Esophagus.


What you need to do is to obtain some 10 mL Syringes of the "Plain Nose" type ( has a short tapering snout with no enclosure ) and, some No 8 French ( size ) Pediatric Urethral Urinary Catheters of the soft, clear silicone composition.

Any 'Home Health' or 'Home Medical supply' place will have these and they cost very little.

Be VERY sure to get the correct kinds!!!! Catheter must have the simple long tapering spigot end to fit on to the nose of the PLAIN TIP Syringe.

Get the wrong things and you will have problems or be unable to make a decent Kit for the task.


When about to use, warm the Catheter in warm water to make it extra soft...it will slowly stiffen up again over the following few minutes...but, of course, do not make it any hotter than body temperature or it could burn the tender tissues of his Esophagus.



Here is a link to some images on how to prepare the Catheter - 


http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/578005139kkdMDX


Lube the Catheter with Olive Oil or KY Jelly...look for areas where soft 'cracks' or seams appear to converge in the blockage, or, areas where there appears to be an opening...


Please make sure you are clearly distinguishing his Esophogus ( Throat ) from his Trachia ( Wind Pipe ).

The Esophagus is at the rear...

The Trachia is forward of this, in the middle of his mouth bottom...and is his Wind Pipe.

Sometimes the Trachia is covered with the inflamitory Canker debris and will not be visible, but bear in mind where it is, and, that it is there.


...gently twirl the Catheter down into and past any obstructions so that the end of the Catheter is in to the lower area of the Crop ( hence, having it be the right length to begin with, and, making the flame softened diagonal 'cut' on the tip as seen in the link's images ).


"Burrito Bird", under a good light...Neck pulled up so it is straight and extended and vertical, twirl Catheter gently, never 'push', just let the weight of the Syringe supply the force needed for it to go down and through into the lower Crop...or insert the Catheter by itself, vert gently ( so as not to accidently jam and tear through compromised areas of the Esophagul walls ).

I have to be out for a while, and, hopefully Karyn can guide you in further details or to clearify further questions.


Nutritous LIQUIDS can be dispensed into the Crop for his sustainance, and Meds can be dispensed into the Crop also of course, which is the only positive way TO do it under these conditions.


Add three or four drops of Apple Cider Vinegar to any 5 mL of Nutritious Liquids, or, to any administration of the Metronidazole in Solution.


These can be unsweetened Cherry Juice or Cranberry Juice added to 'Nutrical' ( a bown goo which comes in a tube at any petsmart or similar store, sometimes called other names, used for puppies or kiuttens ).

Catheter end MUST be all the way down in to the bottom area of his Crop - do not dispense with the end merely some ways in to the Esophagus ( or the liquids can come back up and out and cause the Pigeon to aspirate them and die )



Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## *Emmie*

I realize now what i did wrong when i tried to administer medication a long time ago to a sick bird with canker that i found - i must have accidentally administered into the trachea. the poor bird died a few minutes after my ignorant attempts. Feel terrible , but at least now I know why.


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## pdpbison

Hi okok,



I would also include treating for Candida ( 'Medistatin' ) and a good wide spectrum Antibiotic.


Are you doing alright with this so far?


Phil
Lv


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## okok

This morning I found the pigeon dead. My attempts to feed and medicate it failed to improve its condition, which kept deteriorating over the past day or so. It became increasingly weak, and eventually, between times of rest, it had spasms that sometimes left it laying on its back, and once even on its head with the rest of the body leaning upside-down against the wall of the box it was in. So its death came as a sad relief.

Again, I thank you all. I failed this time but I gained valuable knowledge from you, which I am likely, unfortunately, to have use for in the future.


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## John_D

Sorry to hear this one did not make it. - you gave it your best shot.

Like I say, sometimes whatever we do cannot save the bird. We can give what is needed for the condition we know about (Canker), but if that's a secondary illness triggered by the stress of a concurrent illness then the underlying condition can do the bird in anyway, and we'll never know. Similar if the Canker you saw was just the tip of the iceberg - it can cause too much internal, unseen damage for the patient to come back from.


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## November-X-Scourge

AwwwwwwwwwwwwwWWWW!!!! so saddd :'( poor lil pijj
Fly free and forever~pij


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