# Found injured pigeon with blue band!



## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi everyone, it's me again! I haven't been around for a while because I've been busy. But I came back today because I few hours ago I found an injured pigeon and I need your help!

I found him today at around 9:00pm, as I tried to approach him I noticed he couldn't fly and that his wing was hanging a little bit. It was still hard to catch him as he kept running and hiding underneath the cars. I finally brought him in and checked for injuries, everything in his body looks fine, except that he had a very bloody wing and that he is missing almost half of his wing feathers. I don't know if he has been like this for awhile because all the blood was dried up, which made his remaining feathers to stick together. I tried to clean off the blood with warm water and then applied betadine to where I think the injury is, which is around his shoulder area. 

I don't know if he has a wing fracture or if it's dislocated, either way I don't think I can treat it myself! I've seen pictures here that show how to fix it but I don't think I can do it. So this is where I need your help, I live in Los Angeles (Hollywood area) and I want to know, if any of you know of an avian vet that will not kill the bird, I am willing to drive him anywhere. But it needs to be tomorrow (Monday) because I have to work the rest of the week, plus he needs to be seen asap.

He has a blue band, which has made a huge bump on his foot BTW! I wish I could cut it off! the letters and numbers on it are: (for safety reasons I have removed the band ID)

Sorry no pictures of him yet, as he was a little stressed and I didn't want to stress him even more. He is now sleeping in a box, he is wrapped in a towel and has a hot water bottle in there to keep him warm.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

One more thing, do you guys know if I can get any disease from the pigeon's blood? I didn't wear gloves when I cleaned him and his blood got on my hands and I have some cuts on my fingers!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I just found out the AU band is from a racing pigeon club in San Diego, I don't know if his owner will want him with a broken wing since he probably won't be able to make any more money of him.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

People so rarely get a disease from a pigeon the risk is not even worth considering.

Just practise normal hygiene precautions, as one would with any injure or sick animal or bird.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

John_D said:


> People so rarely get a disease from a pigeon the risk is not even worth considering.
> 
> Just practise normal hygiene precautions, as one would with any injure or sick animal or bird.


thanks John_D, I'm relieved to know that! I will be careful next time.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

so I called an avian vet that is supposed to be really good but I made the mistake to tell the receptionist that I had found the pigeon on the street!! she told me that because it is a "wild" bird they would need to keep him and set him free when he is healed! I have heard bad stories about this so I don't want to do that. I told them that he is banded and that he is not really wild and that I want him to be seen as a pet and not wild. They then said they would charge $98 to be seen as a pet, BUT the vet would still have to decide (depending on the injuries) if he would give him back to me!! 

What should I do? there aren't many avian vets around here (even though I live in a big city) and I really wanted to take him there because he looks like a good one! 

If I find another doctor and if I tell them it's my pet, what should I say exactly? will they ask me why is he so dirty and why I let him out? or how old is he, etc, etc? I feel like I will not know what to say!! please help!


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Haha I got your message then found this post, Ya that for sure sounds like a dr. molnar answer to me. 
but there are several avian vets around here...as well as me...so, he needs radio-graphs to see if the bone can be pinned back together in surgery for possible release; I can get that for him, surgery options depend on the break, it's not always fixable though, or if you just want me to medicate and wrap the wing and you can keep him as a pet you can do that to. 
Pictures always help us, help you, if you feel like doing this one yourself like the other one. we can advise best we can. call west valley pet clinic. see if their avian vet is on site. they like pigeons 
being located where you are, you pretty much have every option under the sun for pigeons


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Haha I got your message then found this post, Ya that for sure sounds like a dr. molnar answer to me.
> but there are several avian vets around here...as well as me...so, he needs radio-graphs to see if the bone can be pinned back together in surgery for possible release; I can get that for him, surgery options depend on the break, it's not always fixable though, or if you just want me to medicate and wrap the wing and you can keep him as a pet you can do that to.
> Pictures always help us, help you, if you feel like doing this one yourself like the other one. we can advise best we can. call west valley pet clinic. see if their avian vet is on site. they like pigeons
> being located where you are, you pretty much have every option under the sun for pigeons


are those surgeries expensive? I don't want to wrap it myself because I don't want to mess him up plus I want him to be able to fly and maybe release him back, although I don't know if he can survive out there since he used to belong to someone.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I called west valley pet clinic and they can see the bird at 3:40 today! so we'll see what they say! hopefully it won't be so expensive!! lol thanks for helping, GimpieLover 

I just fed the pigeon peas because he has not been eating, but he's pooping so I guess he ate yesterday.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

a vet will wrap it for you
racing pigeons shouldn't be released as they are domestic, but if there is no home for them to go to, it's really their only option sadly.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Glad they are going to help you! Tell them you know the rehabber Lindsay that took their last pigeon =)
Maybe they will go easier on you


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Glad they are going to help you! Tell them you know the rehabber Lindsay that took their last pigeon =)
> Maybe they will go easier on you


Thank you Lindsay, I will tell them that


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

GimpieLover, you are most awesome 

Thank you for helping Jenny.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I finally took a few pictures of the bird so you guys can meet him  I circled where the injury is so you can guys see. We'll be leaving to the vet in about an hour and will update as soon as we come back! wish us luck!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

here's 2 more pictures of the wing....


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Hard to tell. Doesn't look to be drooping too bad in first picture. He does look like he's having issues standing? Is he falling forward? sort of using that wing to hold himself up? or is the wing limp and dragging? Check body for puncture wounds. That can look like a broken wing to some people as the wing drops down when they are limping and trying to support himself. 
Hope the vet has some hopeful news! LEt me know if there is anything I can help with.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

he walks fine, last night it took us a while to catch him because he kept running away! I think it's his wing because he has a lump right where I circled and I feel it pulsing from under the wing. Plus that is where he had all the blood which I cleaned up. 

well, Im off to the vet! Im so nervous LOL thank you so much for all your help Lindsay, I couldn't have done this without you!!! 

your inbox is full btw!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hopefully, the vet will also give Clavamox to avoid any infection spreading (GimpieLover will already be aware of that  ).


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

I have antibiotics she can come get, if the vet doesn't give it to her.
Oops...I'll clean out my inbox 
My number is (818) 620-6061 if you ever need to get ahold of me 
Best of luck to both you and the birdy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The circled part is actually what passes for an elbow in us--it's the joint between the distal humerus and the proximal radius/ulna pair. Couldn't say without a look whether it's an injury or a badly-inflamed-to-the-point-of-bursting infection of the joint (septic arthritis). If it's the latter, he'd need a shot of antibiotic and time.

Pidgey


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hey guys, I am back from the vet! like Pidgey said, it is the "elbow" part that is injured. He has a fracture and unfortunately he won't be able to fly again  it made me so sad to hear that. He stayed at the vet's office for the night and hopefully they will give him to me tomorrow. 

They are going to clean the injury, give him an antibiotic shot and wrap his wing in place. He will also have to take oral antibiotics for a few days. 

I have attached a picture of the X-ray so that you guys can see where the fracture is, I still don't understand why can't they put the bone back in place, either with surgery or by taping it back.

What do you guys think? should I maybe take him to another vet to get a second opinion? I am sad for him!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well... if they were a'gonna'... they might run a pin through that bone longways from the back of the elbow, straighten it up inline with the other piece and then run the pin through that one, too, for a few days/weeks. Tough as that sounds, it'd be the least invasive way that'd do the least tissue damage. As long as the ligaments and tendons were still intact enough to work with some PT, the bird could fly again. It's probably the musculature up the humerus that's pulling that little piece outward so much.

Pidgey


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

the vet said that even with pins he wouldn't be able to fly! but I am willing to take him to another vet if you guys think he has a second chance and that surgery could work!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, well... maybe that vet's just never seen the determination of a pigeon that wants to return to the sky... I've seen pigeons do A LOT of their own PT without any prompting and end up as though they'd never been hurt. Yes, it's true... there might be some other damage that I can't see (a lot of soft-tissue stuff doesn't show up on radiographs) but I'm not suggesting something that tough to do. I personally wouldn't go with too invasive of a surgery--cut your way into that and you'd probably cut something that's not going to heal enough to work. And I wouldn't use external fixation, either. 

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well... let's see... just went downstairs (two flights) to read in the books... wouldn't be quite such a bad presentation if the ulna could be realigned... and if there's already a break in the skin such that the end of the small bone piece were visible, then there's a procedure for realigning it with a pin inside. I only just now noticed the fracture to the distal humerus, too... (eyes getting old and I'm tired)... yeah... it's certainly not a great prognosis, but I still wouldn't bet against the bird. Might take him a year to get it back if the work were performed, but he might just heal anyhow.

Pidgey


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't think he has a bone sticking out, at least the vet didn't tell me. All that area is very swollen, it feels like a big lump and its pulsing. The vet was busy after they took the xray so it was the assistant who explained all to me. Should I call and ask them is there's a bone sticking out? because if there is maybe there's still hope for the birdie. Thanks, Pidgey!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, it won't stick out per se--it's too short. But if the skin and tissues were split in such a way as to make it visible inside then it would be a different story. That area of their wing is pretty well covered with musculature and so I seriously doubt that's the case, but don't know and cannot guess how the injury occurred. Obviously, the prognosis looks bad BECAUSE the broken ends don't come anywhere close to being lined up, and that's kinda' why it'd be important to swing that short, stubby piece around. Frankly, it might straighten up if the wing were pulled outward to extend it and it might line up. The procedure to get it close would literally be to stick something like a needle in through the back of the elbow through the hollow center to keep it inline enough for the callus to start forming.

Sometimes we don't do things because we don't see the need given the risk, pain or effort that's going to have to be put out--it's pretty easy to just give up. REAL easy, in fact. TOO easy, these days... 

That being said, I imagine the more typical way of trying it would be pretty expensive. That might be part of it: the economics of it versus the risk--and a vet's usually not going to figure that a pigeon is worth it, for that matter. You might try asking the vet tomorrow.

Pidgey


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Poor little guy. That looks awfully painful! I hope the vet gives you pain medication for him. If he is able to fly again, will he be able to take to the skies, or will he not be a strong enough flier and have to stay safely inside a home or loft, away from predators? On a side note, what does Lucy think of him? What are you going to call this little one? You are a really extraordinary person for doing everything you have done, and will continue to do, for this poor little bird.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

I showed these radiographs to my surgeon as well who has done several life saving wing fixes for my pijis, and he says this one is impossible =(
The joint is shot for functionality so even with the pin putting it back in place, it would just freeze. and if you look closely you can see the radius is actually luxaed to. It's really a nasty set of breaks for any sort of releasablility. 
He is one blessed piji to have found you though!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, freezing IS the likely outcome. Fix it too long and that would certainly be the case due to the ossification that's already beginning.to take place. That's why the whole process would need to be the least invasive so that physical therapy could be ongoing. That's almost too "out-of-the-box" for people to consider, though. That's exactly why we try to get hip replacement patients up and walking just as soon as we can, too.

I don't imagine for a minute, by the way, that he'll ever be able to race again... I'm more thinking along the scale that he could make it up to his perch in the loft.  I still have JEDD, who had both of the bones broken pretty bad who we worked through the whole deal. He became Pattie Cakers' hubby and when she went into the hospital for long term hospice care (terminal cancer) he'd fly up on my back in the loft every night and then stand on my shoulder as I walked back to the house. He'd fly down at the door and walk through the house to her cage and wait for us to pick him up and put him in. He's a real sweetie.

Pidgey


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Pidgey said:


> Yep, freezing IS the likely outcome. Fix it too long and that would certainly be the case due to the ossification that's already beginning.to take place. That's why the whole process would need to be the least invasive so that physical therapy could be ongoing. That's almost too "out-of-the-box" for people to consider, though. That's exactly why we try to get hip replacement patients up and walking just as soon as we can, too.
> 
> I don't imagine for a minute, by the way, that he'll ever be able to race again... *I'm more thinking along the scale that he could make it up to his perch in the loft.* I still have JEDD, who had both of the bones broken pretty bad who we worked through the whole deal. He became Pattie Cakers' hubby and when she went into the hospital for long term hospice care (terminal cancer) he'd fly up on my back in the loft every night and then stand on my shoulder as I walked back to the house. He'd fly down at the door and walk through the house to her cage and wait for us to pick him up and put him in. He's a real sweetie.
> 
> Pidgey


exactly! that's all I would want to happen to Speedy (that's what I named the bird since he used to be a racing pigeon), I don't want him racing anymore and obviously he can no longer be in the wild, but if he could at least fly to a chair, my bed, the window, etc, that would make me really happy! It is very sad to me that he will no longer be able to use that wing ever again.

I mean, if Squeek's (c.hert's bird) leg was REMOVED and placed back in place, why can't a doctor fix Speedy's wing?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Vets are usually thinking short term and some of us experienced rehabbers think VERY long term. We don't mind it if our patient takes one or two years to get back 30% of functionality because it's a real triumph on something approaching a "personal level". When you've got a medical/veterinary practice with all the associated costs, it's more of an economic consideration, so literally a "cost-benefit analysis" or "CBA".

That being said, the real war is the inflammatory response, circulation (which can be highly affected by the aforementioned inflammatory response) and the ability to retain ENOUGH of the working structure through the healing process to be ABLE to remodel the various parts to some return to their previous function.

A mantra: "Form follows function, and function follows form." The collected parts in their expression basically define the function... but some part of that form was actually defined by the demanded function. Simply put, if you forced your shoulder and arm to work increasingly more behind your back during your formative years, you'd have vastly superior motion and articulation within that abnormal operating range. That is to say that the affected joints would literally "remodel" themselves towards that purpose.

This works the same way with healing in various individuals--some will give up due to pain whereas others will NEVER quit REGARDLESS of the pain involved and achieve a far greater restoration of their previous function. Sometimes, it literally comes down to a matter of will and time. I suppose if the vet sorta' resists doing ANYTHING, just try to keep him from amputating and the bird will STILL probably be able to get some lift out of the wing for a quick hop up as shoulder rotation probably won't be affected--only extension.

Pidgey


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Squeeks leg was not removed but it was cut and arranged in the proper direction and had four pins attached. Do not give up on this birdie because even with a shoulder break like that it is clean and I have e-mailed my Avian vet here in the city and I am hoping for a response from him. Pigeons are "air machines" and their bones are filled with air and it is difficult with certain bones to repair and it is sort like Pidgey was referring about the function of it. Your vet did right and he will bandage it right and in place and this is good. But in the meanwhile we will inquire about this type of break and see what can be done. But I know one thing it would have to be a university setting IF Anything can be done. That wing might very well heal good with the wrapping and might very well heal "high" and in this case the bird will be able to fly some even with a break like that and these birds do very very well even with a broken wing for I had three in the loft including my very first pigeon who is long gone but the rest are happy and productive. If the wing heals high and does not drag on the ground there is no reason at all to consider amputation so give it time to heal and of course as I know you do spoil the birdie...Wishing you and yours the very best and I will let you know any information that I can gather about this condition...c.hert


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

With it adjusted and wrapped he should be able to flutter to a chair I would think no prob. It being at the elebow is much better than if it were at the shoulder for that kind of thing. I thought we were talking releasing fly again for it being hopeless. 
How did it go today? Is he home with you yet?


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Cute name for him. He is very lucky to have found you, where he is safe and cared for. How did the vet appointment go today? Hopefully something can be done where he can at least fly well enough to get around the house like you said. You are in our thoughts and best wishes.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

You are doing great for Speedy, Jenny. Thanks a lot and thanks to everyone who is trying to help Jenny at their best. 
Hope there are some chances for him in flying at least in room because they love to fly.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your replies and for taking the time to help us! 

So Speedy is back home! I picked him up at 5:00pm and he was all ready to go. The vet explained to me again that he might not be able to fly because the injury is in the bone and joint. He also had an abscess, which was cleaned up before wrapping the wing. Because of the bad infection, they prescribed 2 antibiotics. I have to give him 7cc of Clavamox morning and night, and 2cc of Orbax in the mornings. If the abscess doesn't respond to the medication, surgery might be needed. I'm a little nervous to give him the clavamox because they told me the easiest way to do it is by introducing the syringe all the way down to the crop (they showed me how), but they said I can also give little drops at the tip of the beak so he can swallow it on his own. I think I will do the second option instead because I am too nervous to stick something down his throat. If someone knows an easiest and safest way please let me know.

Now, if I remember correctly I've read around here that too much antibiotic causes some illness in the crop? like a fungus or something like that? if this is correct, can someone please tell me what should I do or what should I give him to avoid it? thanks in advance.

When we got home I picked him up for a little bit and cuddled him, he looked comfortable! I then put him in the cage and I saw him stretching his wings! even the injured one, so at least he will be able to move it up and down. I am glad at least he's shoulder works fine. 

I've attached a picture of him with his bandage, it isn't a very good one but I will try to take a better one tomorrow. Oh, and the the racing band is off! yay! the vet wrapped the leg though, maybe it had a little injury. 

Thank again everyone for all your help!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Another question, is there a way to know how old is he? his band said he was born in 2015 but it didn't say what month/day.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's great update Jenny. 
Yes syringe feed is not easy unless you are used to it. Usually people are able to syringe feed when vet shows it to them. Still if it goes wrong, they may get drowned or aspirated. 
You can dribble the antibiotic at the sides of his beak( but make sure he sips it in. If not, you may have to syringe feed the medicine by asking the vet again, or if you have understood how to, watch some online videos and it may seem easy to you. 
He looks much better with the bandage and wing in place. Good job  
I don't think you can know the exact age if there was only year on the leg band, don't know if pigeon association with which pigeon is registered may have this information, somebody else may chime in.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

He is a beautiful pigeon and just the right one for you..lol lol..The vet has not responded yet with information about what the University in Ft Collins might be able to do...Still waiting...He looks comfortable and is sooooo pretty..Thanks for the picture of him and i have also forwarded this picture to the vet so he can see the birdie as well as the x ray..No response as of yet..ugh..


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

If you want to bring him by here I can give you a tube and show you how a few more times till you feel comfortable doing it
Great work Jenny!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jenny, what a lovely bird! You sure did do a great job helping him!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The crop disease you're referring to, must be yeast infection. You can prevent this by putting apple cider vinegar and probiotics for pigeons in his drinking water every day while on the antibiotics. Also after treatment for a couple of days for the good bacteria to get back on track.

Nystacid can also be used to prevent yeast infection (we buy over here at pharmacies, hopefully you will be able as well). Can give this towards the end of the antibiotic treatment and also a couple of days thereafter. Works best when given in the morning half an hour before feeding.

The look in those eyes says it all, that pigeon is so grateful your rescued him. Enjoy your new friend.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Hi Jenny M. I sent you a few messages and have not heard anything from you at this time. My vet wrote a note saying that if it is the elbow there is not much that they can do but he did request a x ray to sent to him because he cannot open up the first picture I sent him. Well I sent another one and I am waiting for his response. I am really hoping that he sends this information to FT Collins but at this time your doing everything that you can to help this pigeon. Nothing more can most likely be done with this particular break but I am still waiting for his answer after he now can see the x ray. Sent you all this in a pm but no response as of yet from you..


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi all,
sorry for my late reply, I didn't come here last night, I was a little tired from work and from driving Speedy to the vet! plus waking up extra early to give him his medicine. He's doing good by the way, he's been eating a lot, which is always a good sign  I'm taking him to the vet this weekend for a checkup, will update when we come back!

c.hert, sorry you've been trying to contact me!! I just replied to your messages and I also sent you an email with the xray! thank once again for helping us!

GimpieLover, thanks for offering to show me how to give the medication, I would love to go over but I come back late from work (around 7:30pm) so I don't have time to go over to you. I've been giving it to him the easy way, I just give him tiny sips. He is good and drinks it, but gets a little annoyed by the time we finish.

Marina B, Thank you! that's exactly it! I put ACV in his water the min I read your reply. I will buy the probiotics as soon as possible, does it have to be for pigeons or can it be for any bird?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Try to get some for pigeons, otherwise I suppose you can use one that works for doves as well.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Marina B said:


> Try to get some for pigeons, otherwise I suppose you can use one that works for doves as well.


ok, I'll try to get for pigeons! 
thank you!


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

JennyM said:


> Another question, is there a way to know how old is he? his band said he was born in 2015 but it didn't say what month/day.


There is no way of knowing what month he hatched. The AU makes bands available the last week of December every year, so all we can say for sure is that the bird was not hatched before December 2014.

Why did the vet remove the band?


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Removing the shackles of the past


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

I remember her saying it was causing a bump or irritation on his leg as well. I'd have to read back to verify that though


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Update from posting. My Avian vet also said that the pigeon will not fly again because of not the bone damage that can be fixed but because of the ligament and tendon damage in that area of the elbow. He saw the x-ray. I asked him if there was anything new in the works for these types of breaks at Universities and he suggested that I send the x-ray to Fort Collins (Colorado State Vet School) which I did and just for the heck of it asked them. They are very slow in responding but I will keep you updated. At this time the pigeon that Jenny M. has is doing well and she will update you on that but this pigeon will not be able to fly...Just a opinion here from the prior post "maybe the vet figure that since the pigeon would not be going back to the "band owner" that he would take it off in case it ever got lost or something so that they would not return it to the owner who did not want it back---or a no found owner---just a guess here...My "Squeeks" pigeon the vet took off the band because it was turning the good foot "inward" because of the foot that was "sideways" and fixed by surgery. When they tried manually in Florida to turn that broken leg it also turned the good foot because I guess it was hockled by that foot and it grew "inward" and cause a sore from the band so he cut it off..My birdie gets its pins out on Tuesday and I will be glad...lol Just an update on what my vet said about Jenny M's Pigeon...I will also update you all when the University responds but this might be awhile...(About the ligaments and tendons)...


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Removing the shackles of the past


Exactly!!  

plus he did have a bump on his foot because the band was too small, and since he doesn't fly anymore there's no need to have it


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## Jr Brown (May 22, 2012)

JennyM said:


> Exactly!!
> 
> plus he did have a bump on his foot because the band was too small, and since he doesn't fly anymore there's no need to have it


Without a band, no one can ever claim the bird is theirs, or resides with them if you prefer.
I have read countless ads over the years where people say they found a lost bird and it must be somebody's pet because it is so tame. If it does not have a band on it how does anyone claim it?
Or I read ads that say they found a bird with a band and to claim it please contact the finder and identify by providing the band number. That can't happen if the band has been removed.
I have a loft full of "retired racers". When I get one I take off any plastic bands but, leave on the permanent one and record the number in my ledger.
Over the years I have had an occasional bird fly out the door right over my head. Some have been found by others and I was able to get them back.
Despite our best efforts, sometimes they get out and get lost. If they are found I want to be able to identify them. I leave the bands on.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I leave all my bands on as well but when there is something wrong with the leg or something and interfering I take it off or request to take it off. One thing about the band is if you ever breed that bird for racing that band becomes important. Also sometimes racing pigeons get lost and the owner does not want it back so in that case I have kept it. I have two in the loft one owner I called said I could keep it which I did then another owner through him brought another pigeon over who would just not fly..and then a roller came and "demanded" to get into my loft so I just opened the fly pen door and let him in and the owner of him was deceased...---stories and stories...and you all got me started...lol But if you can it is good to keep the band on for this is important to identify
the pigeon or even breed it for racing. But this pigeon had no home and no chance of survival without Jenny M. and it was interfering with its foot as well. I would have taken it off too because of the sore on the foot...


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Jr Brown said:


> Without a band, no one can ever claim the bird is theirs, or resides with them if you prefer.
> I have read countless ads over the years where people say they found a lost bird and it must be somebody's pet because it is so tame. If it does not have a band on it how does anyone claim it?
> Or I read ads that say they found a bird with a band and to claim it please contact the finder and identify by providing the band number. That can't happen if the band has been removed.
> I have a loft full of "retired racers". When I get one I take off any plastic bands but, leave on the permanent one and record the number in my ledger.
> ...


You do have a point! I had his removed because it was actually too small and it had made a bump on his foot, but I will think about putting another one later on  he is going through so much right now and I don't want to stress him even more. But thanks for your feedback, it is very helpful.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

c.hert said:


> I leave all my bands on as well but when there is something wrong with the leg or something and interfering I take it off or request to take it off. One thing about the band is if you ever breed that bird for racing that band becomes important. Also sometimes racing pigeons get lost and the owner does not want it back so in that case I have kept it. I have two in the loft one owner I called said I could keep it which I did then another owner through him brought another pigeon over who would just not fly..and then a roller came and "demanded" to get into my loft so I just opened the fly pen door and let him in and the owner of him was deceased...---stories and stories...and you all got me started...lol But if you can it is good to keep the band on for this is important to identify
> the pigeon or even breed it for racing. But this pigeon had no home and no chance of survival without Jenny M. and it was interfering with its foot as well. I would have taken it off too because of the sore on the foot...


you have saved and rescued so many birds!! I'm sure you have so many more stories to tell  Thank you by the way for all your help with Speedy, it is very nice of you to do all that you are doing for us, and also for offering to give him a home! you are the best. Can't wait to hear from Fort Collins, even if it takes a while lol


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Update!!

I took Speedy for a check-up today! it was supposed to be on Monday but he had been pulling the bandages so I brought him today instead.

They removed the old bandage, clean up his wing and wrapped it again, this time they didn't cover the whole wing like before. They also prescribed more Clavamox, so now he has to take it for 2 more weeks! making it a total of 4 weeks of that antibiotic. They said he still has a bad infection and that's why they added more. 

I asked if they knew where could I buy probiotics for pigeons, they told me they had it so I bought it. But when I got home I noticed the tube says that it's for "reptiles and birds" it's not specifically for pigeons... it's called "Bene Bac Plus" and it's a paste that I have to give by mouth twice a day. Does anyone know if this is any good? if not please let me know what is the best thing for pigeons and where can I buy it, I don't want him to get sick from all the antibiotic he has to take. I checked the Froy's Pigeon Supplies website and they have a ton of probiotics but I have no idea which one to get. Any help is appreciated. 

Here's a pic of him after we got back from the vet's office, he was not happy, I think from all the driving and handling. But after the picture I put him in bed with me and we took a 1 hour nap.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I would not use that for it could be dangerous for a pigeon. I would order the smallest batch from Foys called "Pro Bios by Foy's" "Is many times stronger than most products on the market meaning you use less to get the same results as other pro-biotics. Foy's Pro Biotic repopulates the digestive track and should be used on a regular basis, and after any antibiotic treatment...Regular use of Foy's Pro Biotic will provide an acidic environment which in turn discourages Paratyphoid and E-Coli,and keeps the digestive track healthy. Foy's page 43....The smallest amount is one pound and the number of it is 670 and it sells for 15.95 and you mix it in the pigeons drinking water. I use it and I like it very much and I do suggest it...You can order by phone and the number is 1-877-355-7727 and also ask them for a catalog to be sent with it. This catalog will give you a world of information about pigeons and diseases and care etc etc...If they do not give it to you for "free" be a negotiator and try hard to get it "free--the catalog--lol ) But I do have a extra one for 2017 and would be very happy to send it to you. I put this Pro Bios by Foys in my pigeons water about two or three times a week (sporically) and they do very well on it...I have been giving it for years...Also get a good calcuim with vitamin D for pigeons when you look at the catalog. They have some you can mix in water and some you put veg oil on food and mix it in for them to eat themselves. You have plenty of time because you will not be over the antibiotics for another ten days. These are important because he sure does not want a bone infection with the pigeon. Give those antibiotics they are important at this time and do not stress about them for even a montho of antibiotics will help that infection at this time. I do have a extra catalog and I will send it to you if you want to look through it. c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Update JennyM from the doctors at Colorado State after taking a look at the x ray.
They say that they can correct the bone break and pull it together to get a nicer heal but the problem lies in the movable joint and ligaments and muscles. They were talking about function and there are a lot of factors there where that particular break is especially in that area where there is sort of a flap so it would be hard to judge if the bird will fly again other than hopping and flapping. I ask that if they got inside by surgery could they see the ligaments and muscles and repair and he said yes to a certain extent but after the surgery one does not know how it will heal as well as keeping the bird very quiet with no flapping at all with the wings and with even this very few are successful for flight again----but he said there are some--but rare and it depends on a lot of things and these things would have to be decided by a manual manipulation and other sorts of testings done. There are no new upgrades or discoveries in this area of birds and this is the latest that I am writing here for you. I ask what the window of time was to fix a bone on a broken wing and he said the best would be before 10 days because they would not want a callus to form for then like "Squeeks" they would have to re break the bone in the wing...This is the best that is offered Jenny M. and he was a very nice Doctor who took his time on really looking at the x ray but its the area it is in with those ligaments and muscles in that "flap" or something he called it making it a movable joint...So there you have it. You got the best care you could under the circumstances and I asked how about "other areas" of the bone and he said that they would be handled with different line of thinking because they can put the bones together with pins but it is just the amount of function that they could get involving the particular area the break is in....There you have it...How is the birdie doing---Speedy....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The Bene Bac Plus is fine to use. They also do sell it for pigeons. Many do use it.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

c.hert said:


> Update JennyM from the doctors at Colorado State after taking a look at the x ray.
> They say that they can correct the bone break and pull it together to get a nicer heal but the problem lies in the movable joint and ligaments and muscles. They were talking about function and there are a lot of factors there where that particular break is especially in that area where there is sort of a flap so it would be hard to judge if the bird will fly again other than hopping and flapping. I ask that if they got inside by surgery could they see the ligaments and muscles and repair and he said yes to a certain extent but after the surgery one does not know how it will heal as well as keeping the bird very quiet with no flapping at all with the wings and with even this very few are successful for flight again----but he said there are some--but rare and it depends on a lot of things and these things would have to be decided by a manual manipulation and other sorts of testings done. There are no new upgrades or discoveries in this area of birds and this is the latest that I am writing here for you. I ask what the window of time was to fix a bone on a broken wing and he said the best would be before 10 days because they would not want a callus to form for then like "Squeeks" they would have to re break the bone in the wing...This is the best that is offered Jenny M. and he was a very nice Doctor who took his time on really looking at the x ray but its the area it is in with those ligaments and muscles in that "flap" or something he called it making it a movable joint...So there you have it. You got the best care you could under the circumstances and I asked how about "other areas" of the bone and he said that they would be handled with different line of thinking because they can put the bones together with pins but it is just the amount of function that they could get involving the particular area the break is in....There you have it...How is the birdie doing---Speedy....


Thank you so much c.hert for all the time you have spent helping us! and please also thank your amazing doctor for taking the time to see the xray and share his honest opinion. I think I will leave Speedy as it is, I think he can still live a very happy life just like your little Catnip!  I don't think I want to put him into so much stress of surgeries if there is still the possibility that he will not fly. I will try my best to make him happy, but if I'm unable to, I know he will be happy with you.  Thank you again c.hert, for all the help!! 

oh and Speedy is doing great! he takes his medications like a pro and is eating a lot lol he has another doctor appointment this weekend so they can check on the bandages again.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> The Bene Bac Plus is fine to use. They also do sell it for pigeons. Many do use it.


Thanks Jay3! have you ever used it? is it as good as the stuff created for pigeons?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

JennyM, thank you for giving Speedy a chance to live out his life! Phoebe had a broken wing and couldn't fly but was our happy beloved bird for eight years. You are a kind person to take such good care of him!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

cwebster said:


> JennyM, thank you for giving Speedy a chance to live out his life! Phoebe had a broken wing and couldn't fly but was our happy beloved bird for eight years. You are a kind person to take such good care of him!


Thank you, cwebster  I hope I can give Speedy a happy life just like you did for Phoebe! Can you please share some tips with me? like how and where she slept, etc? I suppose without them flying they have less things to do.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

JennyM said:


> Thanks Jay3! have you ever used it? is it as good as the stuff created for pigeons?


Yes I have used it, and it is a good product.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

JennyM said:


> Thank you so much c.hert for all the time you have spent helping us! and please also thank your amazing doctor for taking the time to see the xray and share his honest opinion. I think I will leave Speedy as it is, I think he can still live a very happy life just like your little Catnip!  I don't think I want to put him into so much stress of surgeries if there is still the possibility that he will not fly. I will try my best to make him happy, but if I'm unable to, I know he will be happy with you.  Thank you again c.hert, for all the help!!
> 
> oh and Speedy is doing great! he takes his medications like a pro and is eating a lot lol he has another doctor appointment this weekend so they can check on the bandages again.


Sorry to hear that the little fella has lesser chances to fly again but I am really happy you got him and you are a really caring person. Thanks for being there for him.
Big smile to you Jenny


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jenny, Phoebe lived in a large indoor flight cage but we let her out for an hour in the morning and an hour at night. She ran around the floor and sat on our shoulders while we used our desktop. She loved to watch cartoons and fight with a parakeet toy hanging by the computer.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Jenny, Phoebe lived in a large indoor flight cage but we let her out for an hour in the morning and an hour at night. She ran around the floor and sat on our shoulders while we used our desktop. She loved to watch cartoons and fight with a parakeet toy hanging by the computer.


aww so cute!!! thanks so much for sharing! hopefully Speedy will be happy as your little Phoebe was. 




kiddy said:


> Sorry to hear that the little fella has lesser chances to fly again but I am really happy you got him and you are a really caring person. Thanks for being there for him.
> Big smile to you Jenny


Thank you Kiddy!!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi guys, just a little update! 

I took Speedy to the vet on Sunday and they removed the bandages! the wing was still VERY swollen (as you can see in the picture below) but it has gone down a bit in the last few days. He has to take antibiotics for 2 more weeks, hopefully that will help to get rid of the infection.

I'm attaching a few pictures so you can see how he's doing and I also attached a few pictures of the injury the band did on his foot, not only it made a bump on it but it also injured his leg because it was way too tight. It looks like he has another layer of skin and I can actually move it, it's weird. I guess his owner didn't care much about him and didn't even bother to check if the band fit him. I'm really happy it's off, I hope his leg can heal with time.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Pictures of the injuries the band caused in his foot and leg.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Poor little guy, he must have been in a lot of pain with the damage that band caused. Happy it is off, the swelling in his wing is going down and that he is on the road to recovery.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Beautiful pigeon and sure glad that band was taken off him and he is one lucky birdie to have found you...Good pictures as well...Hope he gets more well each day especially with that infection that you are keeping a keen eye on...Thanks for the update...


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi everyone,
so I took Speedy to the vet last weekend (march 20th) because he developed a blister on top of the wing. The doctor said it was joint liquid and that we shouldn't worry about. 

The thing is that she took Speedy off the clavamox (which he needed to take for 1 more week) and instead prescribed Clindamycin. She told me to stop the clavamox and wait a few days to start giving the new medication. I started the Clindamycin yesterday (Friday), he takes 0.5ml in the morning and 0.5ml at night, so far he has taken 3 doses. 

This morning he vomited after taking the medication, it was mostly seeds that he had just eaten. And about 30 minutes later he pooped a yellow liquid (see picture below). Now I am worried that this new medication (which is formulated for cats and dogs) has damaged his liver. I called the vet office but the avian vet is not in today so I will have to wait until tomorrow. Can someone please tell me what should I do until then? I will definitely stop giving him the medication. Thank you.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Jenny, please take a look at the old thread about this medication.

Can't verify anything from experience - never used it.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=48922&highlight=clindamycin


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

John_D said:


> Jenny, please take a look at the old thread about this medication.
> 
> Can't verify anything from experience - never used it.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=48922&highlight=clindamycin



Thank you so much for that thread, John_D! I hope it's just a bad reaction and he will go back to normal soon. I will for sure stop giving it, don't want to kill with with it.


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