# how fast are racing pigeons



## the bird man (Jun 18, 2008)

i was just wondering how fast are racing pigeons? i tossed my birds 3 miles from home and they made it back in 5 minutes and traped in 7. is that good?i'm in the process of takeing them farther and farther away and my next toss will be 5 miles then 7 then 10 then 13 aand so on and so on. what are good times for possible distances?


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Well I trained 50 miles today in 56 minutes and these were all young birds that are on their second week of training now. It depends on if they have a blow home or if they are facing a head wind. I have my whole team trapping in just under 40 seconds now. You need to keep just the right edge to their diet and the amount you feed them and they will listen to you and will race home for the safflower. I just had a little wind for a mile or so today. I was really impressed mine were home 15 minutes before Grandpa's were. I think you are taking baby steps. I went 5 then 15 twice then 27 then 42 and I went to 53 today. I will be going to 64 or so Monday so If they are circling good and group well out of the basket keep moving them up the road. Good Luck. :d


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

the bird man said:


> i was just wondering how fast are racing pigeons? i tossed my birds 3 miles from home and they made it back in 5 minutes and traped in 7. is that good?i'm in the process of takeing them farther and farther away and my next toss will be 5 miles then 7 then 10 then 13 aand so on and so on. what are good times for possible distances?


 Depends on the weather of course. Last year my bird was 1st place in the Flamingo race. His speed was 1666.061 yards per minute for the whole 350 miles. The vast majority of the birds showed up much later and recorded speeds of 1500 YPM or less. The winds that day were 4 MPH or less, so in this particular case 1666 YPM is pretty fast, since he was not being blown home. You may have to check my math, but I think that means this bird exceeded 55 MPH, and didn't even have to stop for gas ! 
See: http://www.smithfamilyloft.com/Flamingo07.html

Of course this was not a regular racing pigeon, this one was "special". Most racing pigeons do not have the advantage of the genetic engineering enhancement that this bird had.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think that means this bird exceeded 55 MPH, and didn't even have to stop for gas !
> See: http://www.smithfamilyloft.com/Flamingo07.html
> 
> Of course this was not a regular racing pigeon, this one was "special". Most racing pigeons do not have the advantage of the genetic engineering enhancement that this bird had.


I'm always surprised by your arrogance and elitist attitude, lol. Of COURSE your bird has the better genetics over anyone elses, isn't that in the given? Also, feral pigeons can achieve and maintain 55mph speeds as well....SHEESH!


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> I'm always surprised by your arrogance and elitist attitude, lol. Of COURSE your bird has the better genetics over anyone elses, isn't that in the given? Also, feral pigeons can achieve and maintain 55mph speeds as well....SHEESH!


I think you are reading more into Warren's post than was intended. I think all he was saying is that through the careful breeding over generations, racing homers have developed both the ability and the desire to maintain these types of speeds over long distances. While I am sure a feral pigeon could hit these speeds, I doubt that a feral pigeon could maintain these speeds over 350+ miles.

I don't think he was putting down ferals, just stating that racing homers do enjoy the benefit of genetic selection that allows them a better chance at better performance.

Dan


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

learning said:


> I think you are reading more into Warren's post than was intended. I think all he was saying is that through the careful breeding over generations, racing homers have developed both the ability and the desire to maintain these types of speeds over long distances. While I am sure a feral pigeon could hit these speeds, *I doubt that a feral pigeon could maintain these speeds over 350+ miles.*
> 
> I don't think he was putting down ferals, just stating that racing homers do enjoy the benefit of genetic selection that allows them a better chance at better performance.
> 
> Dan


Thanks Dan...your post was mature and level headed. I do however think that a feral pigeon could maintain those speeds over long distances and if anyone ever cared to breed them, look after them, feed them well, offer vitamins and in general, pamper them.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Thanks Dan...your post was mature and level headed. I do however think that a feral pigeon could maintain those speeds over long distances and if anyone ever cared to breed them, look after them, feed them well, offer vitamins and in general, pamper them.


O.K. but if someone went to the trouble of breeding, housing, supplementing, etc., etc. over a long period of time, they are no longer ferals, correct. I still have to say that the average cart pony can't win the Kentucky Derby. They are the same species, but bred for diferent purposes. The power of selective breeding brings out the traits one desires. Having said all this, I also must say that while I don't believe a feral can compete with a racing homer when it comes to a race situation, I also feel that most racing homers can't survive in the wild. These are skills that have laid dormant for many many generations and have been supersceeded by traits brought out through selective breeding. Mother nature loves chaos. It is through the random selection of the wild that the vigor and ability to survive in the wild is developed. We have chosen to foresake those traits in favor of speed.

Just my thoughts.

Dan


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

The place to look for speed records is the AU year book. I think the records speed is in the neighborhood of 2400 to 2800 ypm. 1700 ypm is around 60 miles per hour. Something to also keep in mind is the fact that the birds may not take a direct line home, meaning they are actually flying faster than the average. 

They may want to test those birds in the Tour de Flamingo for speed enhancing supplements. 17 young birds doing over 1600 ypm for 350 miles. My thoughts are if you can talk the talk and walk the walk, do it. Just keep in mind what the original question was. 

Randy


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I've clocked a feral pigeon over the freeway doing 65+ mph for 10 minutes, but he was 'drafting' a semi (flying close behind a large truck) and that's cheating in my opinion. I mean, drafting can reduce drag and increase fuel efficiency by 75% but it's just not safe. I told the bird to pull up! And he did, and slowed down. Crazy teenage fliers.

I suppose he could have been a racer, he looked great and had really pretty feathering,.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Base speed is about 45 miles an hour. Facter tail wind it can go up. I think in the past the world record was 103 miles an hour. bUT had to be some great tail wind. Head wind reduce base speed Cross wind also. PLUS line of flight as most pigeon fly in an arc the ones flying more direct will set higher yard per minute speed. YES you might see a bird flying faster along a hiway. BUT remember base line speed and wind dierections. Birds today are built to fly faster over a distance then some of the heavyer birds of yesteryear. Also birds leaving the box on a race and not circling but heading for home will have better times. . ITS all in the bird that day that race Any speed at 1600 yards per minute and over is good speed BUT all the races will be less or more.


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## the bird man (Jun 18, 2008)

thanks for all the helpful info and keep posting more please.and yes matt d. i'm taking baby steps but not all my birds are racing pigeons and i'm not into racing yet i was just curious of the facts and i also believe that consictancy is better than speed right now.i don't want to loose any bird's and taking baby steps i think it makes it easier for them to find their way home resulting in less losses.and i also toss them a few times at the same distance before moving on


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I wonder if a radar gun has ever been put on a racing pigeon? I also wonder what the top speed of a racing pigeon would (or could) be, if the pigeon had a hawk hot on its tail?

I seem to recall years ago that someone followed a racing pigeon with an airplane from start to finish in a race. That would be really interesting to see the actual direction traveled. When I was a narc, we had a device that we could attach to a suspects vehicle (a small GPS device) that would download to a computer everywhere the suspect drove his vehicle during a week period. The computer screen would show his routes, stops (with times), everything that vehicle did. We didn't even have to check on it for a week and could just go check his routes at leisure. That was many years ago and it was the size of a hockey puck. I bet now they have something a lot smaller. Would be great to put one on my own pigeon and see how far off and how many times he/she had to "adjust" to find/get home.

I also wonder about whether or not individual pigeons have an inborn "need" to be ahead of the flock? Some say that certain racing horses just do not like another horse in front of them and it makes them really bust their butts to be in front. Wonder if any pigeons have such a competitive nature? Pigeons flock of course, but horses herd naturally, so they are not that different in that regard.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Talks the Talk...can he Walk the Walk ?*



Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Thanks Dan...your post was mature and level headed. I do however think that a feral pigeon could maintain those speeds over long distances and if anyone ever cared to breed them, look after them, feed them well, offer vitamins and in general, pamper them.


Interesting theory Brad. Of course like Dan said, by definition a bird which is being cared for, looked after, fed, given vitamins and in general being pampered, would no longer really be "feral" would they ? 

Unlike the Kentucky Derby, where only thoroughbreds can be entered, you can test your theory by entering your feral's into any one of dozens of One Loft events, and prove what you say. 

Since you have never entered such an event, much less won any, I would think that your statement demonstrates more arrogance, and more of an elitist attitude. 

Perhaps you could start a new thread at some point, and list your racing achievements with your feral colony, and their speeds, and set us all straight, that nothing has been accomplished with over 150 years of selective breeding. You can talk the talk....can you walk the walk ?........

As Randy said, the subject is speeds of racing pigeons, and as such, your preposterous theory on speeds with feral pigeons, is a bit off topic, if not off the wall.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One thing to keep in mind here is that much of our feral colony has been established by AWOL racing pigeons. I look at a small colony about a block from my house where I raced as a kid, and wonder how much of that bloodline came from my lost birds. 

I will agree with one thing though, Warrens birds will beat feral pigeons. My hope is that mine will also. I have also read, I am not sure where, but if you have a pigeon go AWOL for a while and come back, then put it on the race team. Some say that it has gained that wild spirit. Needless to say it has a lot of exercise from being on its own. Probably just a myth. 

As Dan and Warren battle it out ,a place to look might be the Guinness book of world records. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> One thing to keep in mind here is that much of our feral colony has been established by AWOL racing pigeons. I look at a small colony about a block from my house where I raced as a kid, and wonder how much of that bloodline came from my lost birds........
> 
> Randy



Very good point Randy !

I am sure, with 18,000+ racing fanciers in the USA, that many of these lost birds have become part of the breeding population. Since these birds are not native to this land, they all have their roots from lost or other wise liberated birds over the last couple of hundred years. I don't know how many are lost each year, but I am sure it is into the hundreds of thousands. 

I also think it is very possible, that these wild birds have a much stronger immune system then the colonies managed by humans. Humans have a tendency to "cure" sick birds, and then allow them to go on and reproduce. In the wild, sick birds either get better or die, and only the strongest go on to reproduce.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

When I was a kid we used to take fishing nets under a bridge at night as see if we could catch pigeons. We did and quite a few of them had bands on them.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


I don't think anyone would say it was a fluke. Birds fly on the air streams. It is a fact of our sport. Sometimes those air streams are helping and sometimes they are hindering. That's just the way it is.

I say CONGRATULATIONS!

I certainly wouldn't give the diploma back just because it was a blow home!

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Winner is a WINNER !!*



Pigeon0446 said:


> I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


CONGRADULATIONS !!

No suggestion of a fluke from this corner !* A Winner*, is a *Winner *is a *Winner !!*


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. *But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. *But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


Such negative comments have no business being here, it is not a fluke......... Congratulations, you have a winner!!!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


I am going to come to the defense of Pigeon0446 here. I do not think the comment was un-warrented that some people will pick his win apart. I feel the same way at times in here. It seems with pigeon fliers that the praise and congrats to others sometimes is lacking. I also feel that a few in hear try to build themselves up by discounting the achievements of others. At this point I would like to congratulate the win. Good Job. 

Randy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am going to come to the defense of Pigeon0446 here. I do not think the comment was un-warrented that some people will pick his win apart. I feel the same way at times in here. It seems with pigeon fliers that the praise and congrats to others sometimes is lacking. I also feel that a few in hear try to build themselves up by discounting the achievements of others. At this point I would like to congratulate the win. Good Job.
> 
> Randy


I'm with you Randy. I fly in a small club and small combine. That's all we have here. It's that or stay at home. When one of my birds wins a race, doesn't matter how many birds there were in the race.........THAT BIRD WAS STILL FIRST THAT DAY..........and that's all you can ask your birds to do. Beat what you put them in the sky with that day.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I had a bird win a 308 mile race and she did it in 4 hours and 15 mins. So be it, it was a blow home but the bird still flew over 72mph for 308 miles and did it faster then all the rest of the birds in the race. But I'm not gonna brag because ppl on here might say it's was a fluke or that I had some kind of advantage that day. But all that matters is that the bird flew that fast and was the fastest bird that day. Here's a link to the thread where I posted a pic of her and here mom if your interested. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/has-anyone-ever-heard-of-an-isabella-homer-26092.html


Speed records are made with winds. Your times is a good time so nothing to feel bad about. If the bird wins and flies like this bird did. Even the best Would like this speed.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am going to come to the defense of Pigeon0446 here. I do not think the comment was un-warrented that some people will pick his win apart. I feel the same way at times in here. It seems with pigeon fliers that the praise and congrats to others sometimes is lacking. I also feel that a few in hear try to build themselves up by discounting the achievements of others. At this point I would like to congratulate the win. Good Job.
> 
> Randy


 I'm not sure anyone needs to come to anyone's defense, since no one is being attacked. 

This may not be the ideal sport for someone however, if they need constant reassurance, and require a pat on the back, or are very thin skinned as to what people may say about their wins or losses. 

Many fanciers I find, are very thin skinned, and it's like walking on egg shells, less their "feelings" get hurt. But, this is the subject for another thread.


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## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

Here is website that might help. http://www.pigeonbasics.com/ypmcalc.php


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I'm not sure anyone needs to come to anyone's defense, since no one is being attacked.
> 
> This may not be the ideal sport for someone however, if they need constant reassurance, and require a pat on the back, or are very thin skinned as to what people may say about their wins or losses.
> 
> Many fanciers I find, are very thin skinned, and it's like walking on egg shells, less their "feelings" get hurt. But, this is the subject for another thread.


Been called many things in my life, but "Thin Skinned" is not one of them. Seems like in life you find a few sexual intellectuals that want to tell you how it is, how to act, how you should be, and even how to raise and race pigeons. I have been very patient in the post not telling the world what I really think of some of the comments in here. I, like some in here, do not want to hear how much better someone and his birds are than everyone else. When a guy asks how fast a pigeon flies, I don't want to hear someone stroke himself. I want the question answered. I think some of us walk on egg shells everyday not wanting to post something that is attacked. Exactly what is happening in these posts. Have my feelings been hurt? no. Just getting sick of it. People are entitled to their own opinions, all people. 

My father told me one time that when you think "You are hot #$%@ on a stick" that others most likely think "You are a cold turd on a twig".

Kick me off the post if you want, but some things need to be said. Someone needs to stand up against what is going on in pigeon talk. The lack of respect needs addressing. I think the problem in here does not lie with the modest. Gloat in the ring, but do not expect the gloves not to come off. 

You know who I am.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Keep sharing your stories.....*



hillfamilyloft said:


> Been called many things in my life, but "Thin Skinned" is not one of them. Seems like in life you find a few sexual intellectuals that want to tell you how it is, how to act, how you should be, and even how to raise and race pigeons. I have been very patient in the post not telling the world what I really think of some of the comments in here. I, like some in here, do not want to hear how much better someone and his birds are than everyone else. When a guy asks how fast a pigeon flies, I don't want to hear someone stroke himself. I want the question answered. I think some of us walk on egg shells everyday not wanting to post something that is attacked. Exactly what is happening in these posts. Have my feelings been hurt? no. Just getting sick of it. People are entitled to their own opinions, all people.
> 
> My father told me one time that when you think "You are hot #$%@ on a stick" that others most likely think "You are a cold turd on a twig".
> 
> ...


I don't know Randy....asking pigeon guys not to talk about their winning birds, or their "Champs"....is a little like getting a bunch of grand mothers together, and telling them not to show off pictures or "brag" about their grand kids ! 

You would most likely be dismayed in our local club and combine. The "war stories" and "tall tales" are all part of the pigeon culture and lore. Stroking yourself and others, is what many of us enjoy. This is after all a hobby for fun. 

These threads are full of shared stories, victories and defeats. All of us, yourself included, have shared posts, and even entire threads devoted to the history and success of our little "Champs". And much like listening to some proud grandma, we all pretty much smile, and say something nice, like isn't that sweet. Or, you should be proud, etc. 

Their kids, might be rotten, and some guys birds might be no good, but we all can enjoy when a person shares something from their own little world. If fanciers can't share that, without being compared to a little turd on a stick, well then, what's the point of sharing anything at all ?....

But.....as you say....."People are entitled to their own opinions, all people."

So you have shared yours, and I have shared mine. I personally enjoy reading about people and their pigeons, who went out, and againest the odds, won out of turn. It's what keeps me plugging away, because that means perhaps there is hope for even me. So, you guys and gals out there, please feel free to share your stories with your fast little "Champs" and keep them coming !! 

Mike Ganus is famous for the quote..."No one likes a Winner !" The more I am involved with pigeon fanciers, the more unfortnately, I find this to be true. I had hoped, that at least on these pages, that would not be the case.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Warren, I think if you pulled your head out of your ___ and stop checking to see how perfect it is up there you might be able to see Randy said "some of the comments on here", not the stories!!

Randy is to nice to come right out and say it and so are the many others I have talked to on here who have said " Ya, that Warren really likes to stroke himself doesn't he". People get tired of that after a while. But, along with the comments comes your arrogace. 

These are the things he is refering to. Not the stories you self centerd ___.

Sorry about the personal attack, but some times things just need to be said. Warren, just try to be one of us not better than us!!!

Ace


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

This is my second year in this sport and I love it, but all of this we can do without
be happy and INJOY the birds and comments.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

PLEASE enjoy the stories and share, but we can do without the NEGATIVE insulting comments. If you have a grievence, please PM the moderator.

I have enjoyed this thread, and I hate to close it, but I will if there are any more disrespectful comments.

Ace, please edit your comments.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

ace in the hole said:


> Warren, I think if you pulled your head out of your ___ and stop checking to see how perfect it is up there you might be able to see Randy said "some of the comments on here", not the stories!!
> 
> Randy is to nice to come right out and say it and so are the many others I have talked to on here who have said " Ya, that Warren really likes to stroke himself doesn't he". People get tired of that after a while. But, along with the comments comes your arrogace.
> 
> ...


Come on Ace,

Everyone has a sense of pride when there are successes and they want to share those. We need to be able to gloat a little because these successes are by no means guarenteed. What is one person's proud moment becomes another's arrogance. Some of your posts regarding your early success could be interpruted as arrogance as well. Let's just take these things for what they are and more importantly for what they are not. Stories of success should be shared with others.

Just my two cents.

Dan


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Dan, you seem to have missed it to. You even put it on your post. He said and I said COMMENTS not stories and/or successes. We all like to read about how others are doing or what they have done in the past. Let's just say some of us need to be more careful with the COMMENTS we make on here. I must now include myself in that and say I am sorry for my earlyer post. I should have put a little more thought into it before I started punching keys.

Ace


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## the bird man (Jun 18, 2008)

if you all want to have a pissing match why don't you start another thread for it.if you remeber why i started this thread. it was to figure out how fast a racing pigeon is i didn't ask anything about it's history or breed because i could care less. i was curious about the facts if you wanta post what race you won and how fast it was go head but right now your a little off topic


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

the bird man said:


> if you all want to have a pissing match why don't you start another thread for it.if you remeber why i started this thread. it was to figure out how fast a racing pigeon is i didn't ask anything about it's history or breed because i could care less. i was curious about the facts if you wanta post what race you won and how fast it was go head but right now your a little off topic


You are quite right. I had a little 3 year old hen this OB season that won the "500" mile race. It was actually 470 miles to my loft. Her speed was 1585.692. I don't know what that is in MPH. There was a tail wind that day of about 8 to 12 MPH.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Renee,

If my calculations are corect. That bird flew the 470 mile race at an average of just over 54 mph.

It figured out to about 521.66 miutes or 8.69 hrs. 470 devided by 8.69 = 54.08 miles per hr.

Ace


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Kind of went down hill today on this thread. The fact is many can not aggree how fast a racing pigeon flies. First you find the base speed. That is the over all average rated speed. I have allways been told 45 miles per hour. Then you figure windage. Tail winds increases base line speeds. Head winds reduce that speed Cross winds alter line of flight increaseing over all miles the bird will fly in a race. Then You look at the break A bird that breaks for home more or less out of the box on race day. Well it will often be the faster clock bird. Then the ones that make a few circles They have less speed. Because they did not break for home. as fast. Then you have family lines Some can sprint on at a faster maintained spped where others will surge and break or fly the steady pace. Then you have weather that seems to change over all speeds. So I would say think the old 45 to 50 miles an hour then watch all the above to add or increase that speed. BUT Yes its fun to brag some as long as people remain good sports. It never hurts my feelings hering someone elses stories of how well there birds do. As I learned many years ago. If you win be humble, if you lose be humble. But its fun to read about others who like there wins And piush there level to improve. We all want to do better And we all have feelings. Warren means well in his posts He trys to push the level of competive compition. And others compete just as strong. But perhaps at a different level. The old story of plying with the big boys means you strive at a higher level. AND many may never know that the birds in there loft are just as good and better, unless they go the extra mile. BUT money plays a role to enter some of the higher stake races. So it a graduate program AND Must be what a person wants. From back yard birds to world class birds. .There is room for evrybody in the pigeon hobby. Randy does well at his level. Not that he has lesser birds He enters different races thats all. So we all really have notrhing to get upset about. It would be great to have national races to really test the birds. BUT this is a large country. SO State races and promoting the sport is best chance. Then 1 loft races . Every body is as proud of there birds be it a free bird or a several thousand dollar bird as its not how much it cost its how well it can fly and breed birds tha can fly as well or better. Each loft has to go forward some how some way. Some just can afford to get a faster start buying key birds. But it still the same work to keep them going. There is never no top As every one is trying to get there. So its work each and every year. Have fun ,laugh, Be good winners and good losers Remember the BIRD really won you just owned it per say.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ace in the hole said:


> Renee,
> 
> If my calculations are corect. That bird flew the 470 mile race at an average of just over 54 mph.
> 
> ...


Cool. Thanks. Released at 7:10 AM. Clocked at 3:52 PM so 8 hours. 42 min.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Oh my, I SURE HATE TO DO THIS... BUT, y'see, MR. SQUEAKS has *EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU BEAT FOR SPEED!*

For those who do NOT know Mr. Squeaks, he is my _former_ racing homing pigeon I found as a "squeaker." Due to a severe accident, he has half of ONE wing amputated.

How does he fly, you ask? VERY SIMPLE. You see, _nothing is impossible, only unknown._

Mr. Squeaks is an SPP (a.k.a. *S*uper *P*ower *P*igeon). He is _*very*_ special in that he has the unique ability to utilize what are known as *"seed holes."* 

To put things simply, Mr. Squeaks has the ability to go from Point A to Point B (e.g. from Arizona to NY) in just a SECOND!!

Now, if that's not a record, I don't know what is!

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE "earth bound" PIGEONS WHO FLY FOR THEIR OWNERS AND CLUBS! MR. SQUEAKS SALUTES YOU!

BUT, in his own "pidgin english," he says "_nothing_ beats the seed holes for speed!

Hugs and Scritches

Mr. Squeaks (SPP and Pigeon Extraordinaire)
Shi (proud owner/mate)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

mr squeaks said:


> Oh my, I SURE HATE TO DO THIS... BUT, y'see, MR. SQUEAKS has *EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU BEAT FOR SPEED!*
> 
> For those who do NOT know Mr. Squeaks, he is my _former_ racing homing pigeon I found as a "squeaker." Due to a severe accident, he has half of ONE wing amputated.
> 
> ...


There you have it Have fun and and expect the best even if your bird is handicapped. .


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Typical Base Line Speed is 45-50 mph.*



the bird man said:


> if you all want to have a pissing match why don't you start another thread for it.if you remeber why i started this thread. it was to figure out how fast a racing pigeon is i didn't ask anything about it's history or breed because i could care less. i was curious about the facts if you wanta post what race you won and how fast it was go head but right now your a little off topic


Yes, Bird Man, you are of course correct. I appreciate your post.

Yes, you did indeed ask a very specific and at least on the surface, a simple question.

What I think this tread demonstrates, is that with pigeon guys and gals, nothing is really ever simple. To digress a bit, there is this ability on the part of racing pigeon people, to not only easily disagree, but to also quickly become disagreeable. This unfortunately, is self evident in the operation of many of our clubs and combines.

I apologize, to you Bird Man, and other readers, if when I draw upon my own personal and professional experience, in order to assist and aid beginners, and to contribute something to the sport, that to some seasoned veterans with a year or two under their belts, that I appear to be doing so for the purposes of self aggrandizement. When I take of my time to come on this site, there are far more exalted things I could be doing with my time. Some are here to learn, or become more proficient, and it is for your sakes I am here, and some times, no good deed goes unpunished. This is why I suggested to readers, that a thick skin is required when one achieves some small measure of success, and then attempts to contribute from this personal experience, the name calling here, is a prime example of a case in point. 

I drew upon my personal experience and used what I thought was a relevant example of what some atypical pigeons have done, when assisted by genetic engineering, to obtain base line speeds in excess of 55 mph. Re Lee also shared that from his personal experience, the base line speed of a typical pigeon is 45-50 mph, without the assistance or hindrances of wind flows. 

I also might suggest Bird Man, if you and your birds happen to obtain speeds in excess of these typical base line speeds, it might be best to keep it to yourself, if at all possible, since you will become the victim of pigeon envy by many.  

At least in part, I hope the discussion of base line speeds, helped to answer your questions. And I am sorry for the various distractions and side line discussions.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

> Interesting theory Brad. Of course like Dan said, by definition a bird which is being cared for, looked after, fed, given vitamins and in general being pampered, would no longer really be "feral" would they ?
> 
> Unlike the Kentucky Derby, where only thoroughbreds can be entered, you can test your theory by entering your feral's into any one of dozens of One Loft events, and prove what you say.
> 
> ...


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I would like the opportunity to respond to this post by this person and I'm going to.

The question of whether or not a pigeon's "category" is feral or domestic is still a very subjective point of view. Seeing that all domestic pigeons today are direct descendants of the feral rock dove, I fail to see how humans caring for & looking after one or another group/breed/species has any bearing on the facts or basic genetics whatsoever.

Anybody knows that an animal in good care, receiving special care, good quality feed, vitamins, water, will fair better than a "wild" animal that doesn't have those options (for the most part).

There are some genetic aspects of animals that can't really be manipulated by human intervention with extreme breeding over a relatively short period of time. I believe that some of those core limitations are speed, eyesight, hearing etc. These things have developed over an immense period of time and evolution is a very slow phenomenon. Breeding of animals to produce better, stronger, faster is a short sighted "illusion" and when you omit drugs that domestic animals are often given.

Since nobody and including myself has ever taken on the "challenge" to acquire, raise, breed and hone the skills of a completely indigenous and known feral flock of pigeons, these concepts cannot be proved nor disproved. Once a feral pigeon flock is "experimented" with in this manner and given the same time, care and considerations that any of the racing pigeon community has shown their birds, then it would be a true test. Allowing for selective breeding of the best of the wild birds to see what can be gained from those breedings.

My mention of the speeds of the feral pigeon are not off topic at all, it was just a casual rebuttal to your insistance that homing pigeons were superior to ferals.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I just realized, that I sort of "set myself up" for you to defend your position and I've basically said what you are trying to say in your "not so nice way". It almost does seem like it's all come full circle though. However, I stand firm on my beliefs that no matter what breeders say, their "facts" can't hold a candle next to "God" or evolution or whatever any of you believe in. I believe in evolution and the thousands/millions of years these gradual and small changes required in all of the animal kingdom.

The changes, improvements & ideas that are being suggested here are much too speculative and with many variables. 

Still though, I don't believe it would take long to set up such an "experiment".... breed a feral flock of pigeons and who could achieve & maintain the speeds we are talking about. Colours, eyes, feathering, are all secondary genetics and relatively easy to manipulate. The fundamentals and core genetics are much more difficult to change and improve upon in a short span. 150 years, 200, 500 or even a 1000 years are small potatoes in terms that columbidaes have been in existence. :


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> I would like the opportunity to respond to this post by this person and I'm going to.
> 
> ...


 I think this discussion is better suited for a new thread, perhaps with the title: The Role of Selective Breeding or some other such title. This discussion of man's impact, or non-impact, of selective breeding on racing pigeon colonies vs. wild state colonies, is far removed from the topic of How Fast Do Homing Pigeons Fly.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*New Thread*

Those wishing to respond to Brad's post, please do so at: 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/r...racing-pigeons-29291.html?posted=1#post309393

Under Role of Selective Breeding.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I just thought that I would lighten this thread up a bit. I will tell you a story about my fastest racing pigeon that I have ever owned. His name was Bomber. When I purchased him he was a young bird just learning to fly. The thing is, he never learned to fly, he had a bum wing. Many would just lop his head off and forget about him, but I built him a network of ladders so he could climb up to the highest perches and reach the nest boxes. He settled with a little hen and bred me some fine babies that did well in the races. I know what you are thinking. How is this bird your fastest. Well I will tell you. From the top perch to the floor no bird could touch his speed and acceleration. All the other birds would drift down slowly, but Bomber would accelerate at 9.8 m/s squared, or that of gravity. The other birds used friction to slow themselves down. Not Bomber, he was by far the fastest in the loft. 

Randy


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Boy, you racers take racing very serious. I am just thankful you all are helpful to us newbes. I thank you for all you help, I have eight beautiful birds that always come back when I release them. My first year has been a very learning experience and I know I would have lost more birds without ya'lls help. But remember, as long as each bird makes it home makes for a good day. Speed is important for winning but survival means our birds can race another day.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have introduced a feral pigeon in my loft (a squeaker) and sent him/her on training flights with my dozen racers and it comes home faster than some but not as fast as others. I have only had them out to 45 miles though. I will let you know.

The simple answer to the initial question is 45 to 50 mph, without wind assistance. I am sure that a pigeon could do a hundred in a tail wind of 100 mph, so what is the point of discussing it much further. Heck, a pigeon could do 200 with a tail wind of two hundred, but he might not be able to go in the direction he desires 

I would "guess" that a pigeon with a hawk on his butt, might just reach 55 to 60 on a straight away. We could take the known speeds (if they are known) of certain prey birds that feed on pigeons and assume that pigeons can not outfly them on a straight line.

I took in the feral bird as it was inside my friends barn and he wanted it out and I thought I might as well see what it can do. No band though so I can not send it to a race.

Which reminds me of a question I have been meaning to ask on here. Off topic: I have a racer that I had to amputate his banded leg at the "knee" (his band got caught on a wire and he struggled so hard to extricate himself that his leg broke almost completely in half, just hanging on my what appeared to me to be his blood vessel). I tied some thread tightly around this "vein or vessel, and cut off the hanging portion. I poured Hydrogen Peroxide on it and then put an antibiotic salve on it over the next few days. He seems to be doing fine and flies with the rest. Hops around little and lies down a lot, but I think that he will be okay. The question: Can he be raced in old birds without a band? I would not do it as the other birds in a shipping crate would pick on him, but I was just wondering. No band. No race? Period?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

conditionfreak said:


> I have introduced a feral pigeon in my loft (a squeaker) and sent him/her on training flights with my dozen racers and it comes home faster than some but not as fast as others. I have only had them out to 45 miles though. I will let you know.
> 
> The simple answer to the initial question is 45 to 50 mph, without wind assistance. I am sure that a pigeon could do a hundred in a tail wind of 100 mph, so what is the point of discussing it much further. Heck, a pigeon could do 200 with a tail wind of two hundred, but he might not be able to go in the direction he desires
> 
> ...


Yeah, you are correct. No band, no race. They have to have a registered identity band to prove the bird's age and ownership.

Dan


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## LostPinesLoft (May 29, 2008)

Response to pigeonpal2002 posting of 8/10/08

From Paragraph 2 of your post: "There are some genetic aspects of animals that can't really be manipulated by human intervention with extreme breeding over a relatively short period of time."
It seems you think current breeding methods are of little or no impact?

From paragraph 4 of your post: "Once a feral pigeon flock is "experimented" with in this manner and given the same time, care and considerations that any of the racing pigeon community has shown their birds, then it would be a true test. Allowing for selective breeding of the best of the wild birds to see what can be gained from those breedings."
It seems you think an experiment based on your premise might disprove all other attempts to increase speed, stamina, sight, etc


Is this not a contradiction, or do I misunderstand your point?

Thanks
VL


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## highflyeramatur (Dec 16, 2008)

*I kinda agree with ferals and homing*

Well i have been raising thief pouters for 16 yrs but as a child i wanted hoiming pigeons and my dad took me behind a shopping center with a trap and i we caught ferals and i didnt know any better so to me they were homing pigeons.Well long bstory short they bred and i would release their babies far from home and they would always return I remember one time we tossed 12 birds about 75 miles away from home and 10 made it back.In my opinion ferals do have the ability to home and get back home now as for racing i dont know at the 75 mile toss they got home b4 we did and where sitting on our roof. but i did lose the 2 so i guess it would be 50 50 but to race them idont know.I'd stick to the known bloodlines.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

not 100% sure if they were feral or homing pigeons but they were 5 of them flying right beside our truck a months ago over the everglades. just zooming at 65mph they crossed in front of the truck kept the speed crossed back over and took a b-line to the right and were gone. Must of been at least 12-15 miles they kept up this speed. you could see them pretty clear they had there beaks open huffing and puffing but were pushing. The more I think of it they had to be homers anyone toss there birds off the everglades last month?


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## AngelsWingsloft (Dec 24, 2008)

Lets Just Say The Bird Quick Draw Race In A 400 Mile Race And Flew 2755 Ybm


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