# how do we know if its a boy or girl?



## DJbird (Aug 14, 2005)

Now that we are becoming pigeon enthusiasts we've got to get some basics down! How do we determine if a pigeon is a boy or girl?

Also, there are a two pigeons on top of our neighbor's airconditioner and usually they leave most of the day and come back at night. The last couple of days, however, they are almost always there. Could they be having an egg? Or is it just because they know we sometimes feed them? Can you point us to a reference for the birds mating habits so we know what to watch for?

Thanks for any info.

D and J


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## vivian (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't have any info for you sorry.......  I just wanted to say those are some good questions!


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, the only way to know 100% for sure, is the one's eggs come out of are Hens...  

... but this may help... 

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/programs/urbanbirds/HowTo/ubs_PIWCourtshipEN.html

... after awhile, observing pigeons, you can make a pretty good guess as to their gender, based on appearance and behavior, but every once in awhile, you'll have a bird that will surprise you...


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

Pretty hard to tell from sight, though the male is (in my experience) generally - and it is only a generalisation - bigger all round. The males are also more vocal and with a male and female, you'll often see the male bowing, fanning and dragging his tail, puffing up to look big, doing 'goose steps'... with a mated pair, the male can often be seen 'driving' his mate to the nest, by pecks at her back as they walk.

With the pairing, the male will show the hen a nest site, or maybe more than one, and often sit/stand and do a moaning coo to call her. If she accepts the nest site, then the male will collect twigs for her - tho often, if they have a site in a plant pot or some container, they may hardly bother with building. 

The presence of the birds - or just the hen - lying down in a possible nest place for periods will often indicate that they will be using that for the eggs. Egg laying comes pretty soon after the 'billing and cooing' ritual and the mating. 

Once two eggs (normally - but sometimes only one) are laid - over a 36 - 48 hour period - then the male should sit for several hours during tha day, whilst the hen will sit the early and later part of the day and overnight.

Eggs take around 16 - 17 days to hatch, and babies fledge around 35 days later.

John


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## chris purvis (Feb 23, 2004)

a couple of ways that i have found to tell the sexes apart are:
1) the tops of the cock's head is flatter than a hens, and the hens are more curved.
2) males strut and will sit in a nest box and call for its mate with coos.
3) put all of them in a tight place together, like a crate, and the cocks usually start their fighting and pecking and cooing. 

hope it helps, chris


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## fantailgirl (Jul 19, 2005)

This is what I have found usefull:
Look at the cere, or beak wattle (the fleshy white thing surrounding a pigeon's nostrils). On males, these tend to be bigger. 
Also, beaks on males tend to be shorter and thicker, while on females they tend to be longer and thinner.
Again, it's not 100%, but it can help if you have several birds.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

In most cases the bird that is a little larger is the cock. If you notice While sitting eggs the cock will take his turn from mid morning about 10 am to about 5 pm. The cock will have a larger head kneck and body. . BUt sometimes you will see a hen that will look as big as the cock. You will notice the cock will coo spread its tail and stru. A hen will at times coo not as deep though. And sometimes strut but wont spread its tail and dip and coo in circles.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

re lee said:


> .......A hen will at times coo not as deep though. And sometimes strut but wont spread its tail and dip and coo in circles.



Hi re lee, I know how truly knowledgable you are about pigeons, so I want to say this delicately...if possible.....and maybe my comments can be chalked up to living in the San Francisco area in general. I do have a feral hen who coo's,
struts, and fans her tail while dipping and coooing in circles. I'm positive she's a hen, we are a mated pair after all....I'm just not pulling my weight when it comes to nest sitting .

fp


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Has she layed an egg. As a rule a hen will not coo and turn in circles. But hey. Theres allways an exception. But if the bird has never layed. It still may be a cock bird.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Robert,

Yup, four eggs (one she laid on my forearm--don't ask!). Maybe she fanned and bowed 'cause she was excited about having something to fan with for a change.....but I've been chalking it up to a "whatever it takes to stay here" stance  . And of course, she is welcome.

I will say, however, that it is not nearly as dramatic as the fanning and bowing w/two step that I have seen the males do. It is "refined" in comparison, but non the less a most distinctive display. It also happened in the beginning of her
"we gonna be mates" behavior especially when a new rescue would arrive. But after the comings and goings, she now seems to just be using the crouching, moaning and nodding mode. 

fp


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## vivian (Jun 24, 2005)

Those are some good tips. The one thing I noticed is the males tend to have a bigger chest and are more bold and the one thing with rock doves is the male has usuly got a shine on his neck.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I have a hen that fans and bows too when doing the "courtship" dance thing with her mate... but I'm 100% sure she's a hen as she's laid & raised 2 clutches. Of course, it is possible for sex reversal to happen in pigeons, but only hen to sorta-cock-bird, but, that, as they say, is a different story.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A hen after being topped will often strut a little But still most often will not coo walk in circles and fan the tail. But as said things do happen.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, ok, DD hadn't been strutting and fanning her tail for a while, but abandoned efforts on her last set of eggs a couple of days ago. I'd made her a nice bath w/salts which she turned her nose up at, and instead, decided that Sam's (cat) food and water bowl with matching stand were of interest. She stood in the food bowl submerging her head in the water bowl several times up to her neck, then got in the water bowl and "melted" all the way down over and over while in general having a ball. When she jumped out she was quite pleased with herself and started cooing, strutting and fanning her tail again  . Girls will be girls....

fp


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Seems she prefers a pedestal bathtub!


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## rena paloma (Jan 30, 2005)

*i love it when they coo*

cocks coo more than hens. 
there is an androgenous pij at my hous,e one of my ferals is, that is.
whatta-wattle! that her name is.
huge wattle, like a german beauty homer!
really nice colouring too. she is thre every day pecking and dancing, and getting danced on by cock birds./!!!


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