# Orphaned fledgling ~4 weeks; won't eat



## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Hi all,

I found a feral fledgling about 4 weeks old. For simplicity, I'm calling it a 'her'.

I've got her warm and Ive been rehydrating her... BUT I CAN'T GET HER TO EAT.

It's been about 18 hrs now.

I've got some millet mix (for budgies) with grit and crumbled peanuts in one bowl and rehydrating water in another, but I have to rehydrate her by hand with a syringe. She's much more alert now; so I figure she's okay to start eating, but she's not doing anything on her own.

Her droppings are ok but diminishing in size, obviously.

Background: About 6:30 yesterday evening she was out front of my apartment (in Cork city, Ireland) in the street with one of her parents feeding her. She's too young to fly yet; she can only get about 12" off the ground. There was also no way for her to get back to wherever it is pigeons go at night. She wouldn't have lasted 5 min on the street so we had to take her in. Her parent was still looking for her out there at 8:30... very sad...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Poor little thing isn't eating because she doesn't know how and so you are going to need to hand feed her if she is to survive. This is what you do...

You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. I f it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines them without hurting them and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the throat. You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the birds crop empties until you know she is eating on it's own.
Pretty soon, she will eat the corn and peas on her own and then you can graduate her into seed.
The crop is located right below the throat and when it has food in it it fill up like a little balloon and with peas and corn it will fill squishy.
__________________


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Could you please take a picture of your new pigeon's head? I'm concerned about the bald area under the mandible, it could be a sign of canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, a close up would be helpful, as it does look as though she has feathers missing there.
Her crop will probably empty three times a day, at which time, you can feed her the peas and corn again. Not so much as to make the crop feel too filled, like a balloon. Just puffy like a little pillow. Soon, she'll learn to pick them up by herself. They usually love defrosted peas and corn. Let us know how she'd doing. And try to post a close up of her head and face if possible.


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## pigeontastic1 (Jul 9, 2009)

*Thanks...*

Thanks for the replies.

I couldn't post... permissions for 'pigeontastic' are nazi'd... (mods, please help!).

The corn and peas are a hit; this afternoon she started eating them on her own (along with squashed peanut bits).

I can't get a great close-up picture of her (phone camera sucks), but here's what I have:








If you can't tell if she has canker from this image I'll take another one after her nap. I haven't noticed any lesions around her beak or in her mouth (if that makes any difference to a squab?).

We've named her "Repeeper" (the original "Peeper" was a tiny feral who used to visit our patio a few years ago). She's doing much better after hydrating and eating. I started taking her outside to chase her along the breeze-way outside our apartment. She can't get much altitude but can cover about 4-5 feet (maybe 6-10 inches off the ground).

Thanks again guys... will keep you posted.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That picture really isn't clear. She shouldn't have missing feathers on her throat though, and in the other pic, it looked as though she does. 
By taking her outside, you are taking a chance, that when she can fly enough, she may go up in a tree or somewhere where you can't get her. She isn't ready for release, and she would never make it out on her own. 
With canker, sometimes, if you can look way down in her throat, you might see some cheesy like stuff. Canker. But they don't always have that. If the bird has canker, it needs to be treated. If not, it will get very sick and die. We need a better picture. Can you see the skin under her throat, or on the sides of her face?


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## pigeontastic1 (Jul 9, 2009)

Hi Jay3,

There are what look like fine fuzzy feather-stumps on her neck, possibly growing in.

I can't do close-up photos with my crappy phone camera - BUT - I did find this photo on flickr that looks somewhat like what I'm talking about (see bird on the right, below and between the eyes and beak):









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapplegate/3347637908/in/set-72157602190854547/

I'll look in her throat in the morning.

Regardless, what is the treatment for canker?


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I agree with Jay3, letting the baby outside is a bad idea. Plus chasing the baby would terrify it, do you want to be able to hand feed the bird or have it cower from you?

I'd bet money that the pigeon has canker, it isn't normal to be missing feathers below the jaw.


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## pigeontastic1 (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks JGregg, but I assure you I'd stop letting the bird out long before there's a risk of my loosing her. She simply can't fly yet.

If she has canker, how do I treat it and when do I start?

Now, to the philosophic, flame-bait material... She is not and will not become a pet. She is a feral pigeon and she belongs with her own flock. Consequently, I am unsettled that she tries to nurse from my hand. It may be cute but it's inappropriate and she should be weaning anyway (at which she is progressing better than I anticipated).

Also, I *really* do not want her to get too comfortable with humans. I want to give her the best opportunity possible for her to survive, and hopefully thrive. That will not happen where we are if she gets too close to humans. I've seen people here behave shockingly towards pigeons, the likes of which you would never see in California.

When given the choice to leave her to die or raise her myself, I believe neither is an humane option. I chose not to let her die so she could have as natural a life as possible hereafter. So, I let her explore, then I chase her, then feed her, then she sleeps. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'm sorry if it doesn't appeal, but I am not a pigeon and she is not a human and those boundaries will firmly remain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pigeontastic1 said:


> Thanks JGregg, but I assure you I'd stop letting the bird out long before there's a risk of my loosing her. She simply can't fly yet.
> 
> If she has canker, how do I treat it and when do I start?
> 
> ...


Don't think anyone is asking you to drop your boundaries. It's just that a bird who is afraid of you is lots harder to handle. And chasing it to the point of scaring it, really isn't going to help anyone. It'll just make caring for her that much harder.
Now, as for the canker. She does look as though she has it. There are lots of different meds that you can get online to cure it. Foy's is one place, and they have a page with different canker meds. Here is the link for that page.
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker.html

There are other places you can order from also. Where are you located? There might be a member in the area that could help you with it.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

You could treat canker with Fish-Zole (can be found in a pet store). Give the bird 1/4 tablet for several days (I don't know how many). Hopefully somebody can jump in with the correct number of days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think it depends on the strength of the fishzole, how much to give.


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## pigeontastic1 (Jul 9, 2009)

*Guidance treating canker (with carnidazole)*

Jay3, JGregg & Charis:

Thanks a mil for all your input, sincerely.

We're quite certain now she's got canker - yellowish phlegm-like oral excretion; drinking way too much water; not eating enough (but occasionally and now on her own - peas & corn and seeds w/ grit).

I'm in Cork, Ireland - new EU regulations require a prescription and there are no avian vets in Cork (nearest is 2.5 hours away by car; plus, no car).

I was able to get SPARTRIX[tm] (Carnidazole 10mg tablets) today "for oral treatment of canker in pigeons".

Do any of you have experience administering carnidazole?

The 'constructions' included state that "a single oral dose is effective against ... pigeon canker."

Also,
1 tablet per adult pigeon (i.e. 10mg per pigeon). Half tablet per younger pigeon. A single dose is usually sufficient. Cases which do not respond within 3 days may be treated again.​
I'm going to wait for about 2 hours (to hear any thoughts/feedback) then give her a half dose.

Plus, no more outside exercising (as of Saturday). She can now get up to about 6 feet high on her own now (inside, of course) which I find quite encouraging, all things considered.

Thanks again for all your help


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

*Better Pic*

Hey lads,

Here's a *slightly* better image...


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

sorry...

here:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pigeontastic1 said:


> Jay3, JGregg & Charis:
> 
> Thanks a mil for all your input, sincerely.
> 
> ...



One pill never works. We usually give three, and sometimes they may need more. One pill may be sufficient for the prevention of canker, but not for the treatment if they have it. I don't remember, how old is the bird? 
Make sure you take the water away when you give the pill, and keep it away for at least 2 hours.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I just checked. She's about a month old. I'd give her one whole pill a day for at least three days. If the canker is still visible, I'd treat longer.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Thanks Jay3

I think she's about 4-5 weeks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'd give a whole pill, like I said for at least 3 days.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Thanks Jay...

I've given her the pill and taken the water.

Will do the same tomorrow.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeontastic said:


> sorry...
> 
> here:


Canker. Thanks for the picture. It's a good one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please let us know how she is doing. If her appetite isn't good, hand feed her the peas and corn. Good luck.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Update Time:

I gave her 10mg of carnidazole at ~9pm last night.

Her appetite is still below normal (no visible improvement). By lunchtime she had eaten, on-and-off, about a tablespoon of seeds.

At 1pm I fed her peas and corn (about 30 total) until she began trying to refuse. By feeling her crop, I think she could certainly have eaten more.

So, we repeated the same pattern at 3pm. I'll leave her off the hook until about 7 unless she goes for it on her own.

Her water intake, which was out of control until today, has diminished markedly, although it is still a bit high. Consequently, her droppings today are more solid than watery (but still not right).

Also, possibly noteworthy, she'll eat seeds on her own, but only ate peas and corn on her own on Friday. I've been feeding them to her moderately since then.

I'm going to give her another 10mg carnidazole tonight, but a bit earlier... maybe 7-8pm. 

Is it better to give her pill after eating or between meals?

Will keep posting...


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Update:

Gave her another pill and took away the water.

She's hungry now, and I'm letting her have a few seeds (but not a lot in case stimulating digestion can effect the absorption/retention of the medication). I'll let her have more if she's awake later when I give her water back.

Her appetite improved a bit this evening. Her water drinking is decreasing, slowly but steadily. Her droppings are around 10-20% water (down from >75% yesterday).

Anyone know when I should start to see the feathers grow in around her cere and mandible?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

You don't need to worry, let her eat as much she likes.
Spartrix is one of the safest drugs for pigeons and its working fast.
Only problem is that sometimes you find very resistive trichos and spartrix only is not enough.
Give her a week and if there is no other complications feather will show.
I would also worm her after canker treatment. Ivermectin 1 drop at the base of the neck between wings is best.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Thanks plamenh.

Will let her eat, then.

I hope this canker isn't too resistant as it would be very difficult for me to get any other medication in Ireland.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The directions say that you can feed after the pill, but the water must be removed for at least 2 hours. I've seen other directions that say to hold the food and water for the two hours. So that's what I do. I always figure the pill will work better that way.
Plamenh is right about the fact that sometimes it takes more than the Spartrix. I had a baby like that, and the spartrix wasn't working. I had to go to the vet and get liquid metronidazole (Flagyl). Her canker was so bad that she couldn't eat. Her throat was almost closed off. When I first discovered it, I had to go down and pull out 4 split peas that were caught down there. Scary! I had to feed her the bird formula, and then slowly keep trying the seeds til she could handle them. She just couldn't get them down. They would have blocked her throat. I have a squeaker rescue now that had canker, and the spartrix worked on him. So you never know. Let us know if there is a problem. Just watch to make sure her throat doesn't get blocked with the food.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeontastic said:


> Thanks plamenh.
> 
> 
> I hope this canker isn't too resistant as it would be very difficult for me to get any other medication in Ireland.


I'm praying for the two of you.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Update:

She had a good bit more energy this morning and was exploring around the place. I left her to eat on her own. She pecked around her seeds, but didn't seem to be eating many of them. Her appetite still isn't great and water consumption still a bit too high.

By 11.30 am her droppings were very watery.

At 12.00 I fed her peas and corn (~ 50 pieces). Her droppings are more normal now (~10-20% water).

I checked her mouth/throat again. There are still no visible signs of canker inside her gullet that I can see.

She still sleeps a lot but not more than before and does seem more vivacious when she's awake.

She's gotten very used to sitting on my lap for feedings, then falling asleep there after. I'm a bit concerned about what's to happen when it comes time to release her. Any good references?

There's a bird sanctuary near by that has a flock of ferals. It seems a preferable place to release her than the (busy) street where I found her but I remember reading something about releasing them where they were found.

Thanks again for all your help and prayers. It's very kind of you.



> Her canker was so bad that she couldn't eat. Her throat was almost closed off. When I first discovered it, I had to go down and pull out 4 split peas that were caught down there. Scary!


The canker hadn't (seemingly) disrupted her breathing or obstructed her throat, so I'm hoping she'll pull through. If anything she's been improving; slowly but surely.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Addendum:

"She" got a bit feisty with me earlier this afternoon as well. "She" was pecking and biting gently at my finger. I've heard that the males will play fight when they're young... that certainly seemed to be what was going on. "She" wasn't scared and was back asleep on my lap 5 mins later.

Maybe it's a good thing "her" name, "Re-Peeper", is relatively androgynous.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you know if they feed the ferral flock at the bird sanctuary? Many of those places won't be bothered with ferral pigeons. The reason for releasing a bird where you find it, is that if there is a flock there, then they must be finding food and water somewhere. You wouldn't want to release where the poor thing couldn't find these things. If the ferrals near the sanctuary look healthy, and are getting food, and it is a better place for a pigeon, then I'd go with that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeontastic said:


> Addendum:
> 
> "She" got a bit feisty with me earlier this afternoon as well. "She" was pecking and biting gently at my finger. I've heard that the males will play fight when they're young... that certainly seemed to be what was going on. "She" wasn't scared and was back asleep on my lap 5 mins later.
> 
> Maybe it's a good thing "her" name, "Re-Peeper", is relatively androgynous.


Lots of them are like that when they're young, males and females. Heck even when they're older. Just depends on the birds personality. She seems to sleep a lot. They don't normally, but if she isn't feeling well..................


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

More updates:

Fed her again at 6pm.

Gave her Spartrix at 7pm.

Poops are more normal. She *is* still sleeping a lot. It may be because of the WORMS.


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## missmadison (Jun 19, 2009)

I raise feral pigeons all the time (at a wildlife center) and we ween the birds off us by putting them in a flight room for a couple weeks prior to release. It's always hard to catch them when it comes time to release... I'm sure you probably don't have a flight room at your disposal, but my point is that they usually are not imprinted permanently and should do fine in the wild - just be sure to release the bird amongst a flock as others have said! Good luck and well done to you for helping this bird out!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeontastic said:


> More updates:
> 
> Fed her again at 6pm.
> 
> ...


You don't know for sure that she has worms.

OOPS! Sorry. I just saw your other thread. She must have them pretty bad if they are in her droppings. When I wormed my birds, I got worms in the poop. Not many, but a few were like an inch. I thought that was bad. I have never seen any except when I have wormed them. Yes, you need to get rid of the canker first. It would just be too much for the poor little thing. Those worms can cause damage though. Lets hope the canker mads work fast.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

*Update 16 Jul @ 10.30am*

Re-Peeper was a bit excited this morning. She flew around the room once while I was trying to clean up after her so I had to put her in the bathroom for a 5 minute 'time-out'.

At 9:30 I got her out and on my lap (where she'll sit all day given the option). She ate about 1 tsp of seeds on her own and outright refused to let me feed her peas and corn. Her water intake seems much more normal now and her droppings as well.

She's back in her box now while I work.

I leave water and seeds/grit in her box. When she's in there she'll occasionally mess about with the seeds, but more than actually eat them. She'll kick up a fuss when she wants to get out, but she's quite docile at the moment.

Feefo said she'll send me Moxydectin Plus for her worms. Today at 5 pm I'll be giving her the 4th dose of Spartrix.

I planned on 5 doses. It's difficult to tell if it's having an effect because the only visible sign of canker I could find were the bald areas (and a yellow phlegm-like substance she spat out on Sunday).

She does sleep a lot (on my lap). I'm hoping it's not a cocci flare up as well. Her appetite is not yet normal, which seems to be symptomatic of a handful of things... we'll see.


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

*Update 17 Jul @ 10 am*

Today I'll give Re-Peeper her 5th and last dose of Spartrix (carnidazole 10mg) @ 4 pm.

The bald areas around her face and mandible are clearly itchy, which I hope is an indicator that the canker is subsiding and the feathers are growing in. Can anyone confirm?

She was rather cantankerous yesterday. We think the carnidazole makes her cranky, if the brunette's extensive pharma experience with -zoles in humans is any indicator. If so, it might be something to point out to people having to administer -zoles.

She is more ebullient today and so far has a normal appetite back. She ate a 3/4 meal of peas and corn (partially hand-fed) at 9.30 am and then went for the budgie seed and grit mix.

She's become very picky about what she eats. She won't eat peas at all on her own, and I'm getting more reluctant to feed them to her as she clearly doesn't like them. She also picks out the groats from the budgie seeds and doesn't eat the millet at all.

So far so good...


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

*Continuing thread...*

Hi all,

I'm going to stop posting in this thread.

I have a new thread in Sick or Injured. I'll use that to chart progress, give updates, etc.


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## Glyn (Jun 29, 2009)

FishZole 250mg Tablet to To 10 Gallon Of Water


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## Pigeontastic (May 23, 2005)

Hi Glyn, thanks... got Spartrix. Can't get FishZole over the counter in the E.U.


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## Glyn (Jun 29, 2009)

Its ok im going to pop round and get my litle fledgling some as hes not very well and see if it will perk him up abit


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glyn said:


> FishZole 250mg Tablet to To 10 Gallon Of Water


Glyn, isn't that the directions on the package? If it is, then it's for fish. A 10 gallon fish tank.


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