# new to pigeons!



## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

My name is Jesse. im 24 years old. im new to pigeons. i dont even have any pigeons yet, this older man i know was telling me that he used to race pigeons for over 30 years. but has not in recent years. he has been giving me little tips. he told me if i was really interested he can help start me off by giving me some birds.. he said he has some janssens. also some from the white bandit line.. any way. this was about 3-4 months ago. so i have really thought about it, researched on here before i signed up. and the more research i do the more i seem to get excited about this hobby. right now im going to jr.college , and i have to take care of my grandparents and little bro and sister . so im always home. i have decided to commit to the birds. i want to sign up to a club and race in the future. i live in sonoma county in ca. does anybody know of a club near by? i have started building my loft on the side of my house. im mostly following the starter loft plans (www.redroselofts.com) im posting up the process on youtube. http://youtu.be/hwPWZ8cK3YE if you guys want to check it out maybe give me some tips i would appreciate it. thank you.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

*Welcome!*

Welcome Jesse, this forum is full of information that is great. I've been feeding off the info since I was thirteen when I first got started and for the last 10 years. You'll find that in pigeons, one never learns all and you always learn something new. In this forum there are many nice, friendly and generous members who will always be able to help you. Remember when you're new you have lots of questions and this forum is the best place to ask you get lots of point of views and ideas so don't hesitate in asking.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

*About a club.*

I did a little research and found this club in Sonoma county;

58.	Club Name	:	SONOMA COUNTY RACING PIGEON CLUB
Club Code	:	SOC
Club Secretary	:	PAT SIINO
City	:	SEBASTOPOL
State	:	CA
Phone No.	:	707-829-2768
Email Address	:	

You can also look for others near by here http://www.pigeon.org/bandlist.php?year=2000&f=S. Hope this helps.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I would not recommend using that OSB as your flooring. It will hold moisture and it is impossible to clean/scrape. I would use 3/4 inch plywood designed for flooring.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Welcome Jesse, Sounds like you are starting out well. You are doing the research B4 you jump in with both feet. That shows common sense and with that you will do well. I also got into this because circumstances made me need to be home more for much of the same reasons. I gave up a lot of other hobbies, but keeping and racing pigeons not only keeps you busy, but is also very rewarding. Listen to the folks here, and you will be fine. Jim


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I would not recommend using that OSB as your flooring. It will hold moisture and it is impossible to clean/scrape. I would use 3/4 inch plywood designed for flooring.


is there any sort of barrier or something i could put on the floor to protect it from moisture ? i dont have a truck so i cant just drive to the store and pick up some plywood.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

I agree you need plywood I would also get the floor a good foot off the ground


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## calzephyr (Dec 22, 2009)

Jesse:

There might be some information in this thread that will help you:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/modified-redrose-loft-project-44691.html

-Cal


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

calzephyr said:


> Jesse:
> 
> There might be some information in this thread that will help you:
> 
> ...


thank you, that did help. the only thing is i dont have a truck so if i do decide to go with plywood on the floor. i will have to wait maybe months. which is kind of hard since i just want to get this done so i can start. i dont know what to do lol. i do appreciate your guys imput.. thank you


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

so i was able to get my cousin to give me a ride to buy the plywood. i bought the plywood and some cinderblocks to lift the loft off the ground.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

You will be glad you did later.


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## Nodaksnakelover (May 29, 2013)

For what it's worth coming from someone who's only had pigeons just under a year. When I built my little loft, I used more wood under that floor than the diagram shows to make it solid. I used a treated 3/4" sheet of plywood and gave the inside a double coat of Kilz white primer. Using white really makes a difference when you step into the loft versus my friend who didn't paint inside his at all. Much brighter in mine! My friend here also used chicken wire. Something else I can't recommend. He's had to repair his several times this summer alone due to dogs! I went with the 1/2" woven wire and haven't had any issues yet. My changes sure made for a heavy loft but I feel it has resulted in much happier birds in my loft. My friend's birds have increasingly been dropping into my loft instead of his, so I get to tease him back about my pigeon castle as he calls it. 

Good job on research first! Your on the right track!


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

I have put on the new plywood floor and I bought cinder blocks to raise it off the ground. I have been documenting every thing on my YouTube channel. But if people would like I could also post pictures here.?


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

Hello folks:
My name is Dave, and I have been bitten by the pigeon bug once again. I did shall we say, keep pigeons during the late 80’s and early 90’s. Had a mink break into my facilities and kill most of my birds. Not much of a loss really as they were mostly barn pigeons crossed with some blue bars I bought at the livestock auction. 
At any rate I am now retired and would like to get into racing birds. I have just built an 8’X8’ loft with Oak floors and walls (no mink in this one). I have several old pairs of racers I got from a guy on the net. I have no idea if the guy cheated me or not but , the birds are supposed to be blue bars they look like the blue bars I have seen in the past, but, I have no idea if they are the real article. My question is will these birds hang around the loft when released if they have young in the loft? I have read several places that old birds will attempt to fly home if released but I don’t know if this is subject to change if they are raising young? 
I am sure I will have a million more questions but I would like to spend a while on your forum just reading and getting acquainted before I expose my true lack of knowledge on the subject. 
Any thoughts?


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

pooch88 said:


> Hello folks:
> My name is Dave, and I have been bitten by the pigeon bug once again. I did shall we say, keep pigeons during the late 80’s and early 90’s. Had a mink break into my facilities and kill most of my birds. Not much of a loss really as they were mostly barn pigeons crossed with some blue bars I bought at the livestock auction.
> At any rate I am now retired and would like to get into racing birds. I have just built an 8’X8’ loft with Oak floors and walls (no mink in this one). I have several old pairs of racers I got from a guy on the net. I have no idea if the guy cheated me or not but , the birds are supposed to be blue bars they look like the blue bars I have seen in the past, but, I have no idea if they are the real article. My question is will these birds hang around the loft when released if they have young in the loft? I have read several places that old birds will attempt to fly home if released but I don’t know if this is subject to change if they are raising young?
> I am sure I will have a million more questions but I would like to spend a while on your forum just reading and getting acquainted before I expose my true lack of knowledge on the subject.
> Any thoughts?


hello. from what i have read they only home to there original home. and it is extremely rare to re-home them, regardless if they have young. my suggestions and im guessing what other people will say is. that if you have good breaders dont risk it. but then again im barely building my loft so dont take my word for it. what i said is not from experience its from what i have read on this forum


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## rocks (Nov 6, 2013)

I have rehomed racers it works about 75% of the time when they are sitting on there second nest. One hen I have won a 100 mile race for the previous owner than I rehomed her to my loft she won a 400 mile race.


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## Nodaksnakelover (May 29, 2013)

I too have rehomed birds that were older than squeekers. But I'm sure the fact they were in the new loft for many months played a part. I still lost some birds. And others once I tried to take them away from the loft they were never seen again in spite of loft flying for a month before the attempt. Just my personal experiences. Yes it can be done, but yes, you certainly can lose birds, even all of them trying to rehome them.


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

so this is my progress so far in building my pigeon loft

http://youtu.be/hwPWZ8cK3YE part 1
http://youtu.be/O-UwpfeEXjQ?t=1s part 2
http://youtu.be/U56zJRIgF2U part 3

I plan on documenting my whole experience with pigeons . i will post videos as i go, for anyone that is interested. needs help,wants to offer advice or just wants to watch. this website is so helpful, thank you guys!


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

Ok, I think I understand. I am not sure about the lingo here, is loft flying just opening the door and letting the birds out? As opposed to taking them somewhere and turning them loose? If so are my chances of keeping the birds better with loft flying? 

I am also curious about nesting behavior. Will pigeons nest year around and if so is it reasonable to let them nest in the middle of the winter? Does photoperiod have anything to do with pigeon nesting or is it more of a temperature thing with them? If birds are showing nesting behavior at this time of year is there a chance they will go on and continue to lay eggs? Or will they wait until after the winter solstice and then commence egg production?

I am sure many of you find these questions a bit mundane but I am so steeped in not knowing what I am doing I feel compelled to ask, for the birds sake.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

pooch88 said:


> Ok, I think I understand. I am not sure about the lingo here, is loft flying just opening the door and letting the birds out? As opposed to taking them somewhere and turning them loose? If so are my chances of keeping the birds better with loft flying?
> 
> _*You are correct loft flying is flying your birds at your location. Releasing them elsewhere is called road training.*_
> 
> ...



Good luck!


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

http://youtu.be/zKBIdFzaWkc .......another update on my loft build


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

*got some birds!*

http://youtu.be/P-khDctDf30


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

looking good


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

my pigeons have green poo. could it be worms?


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## tick and twitch (Sep 26, 2012)

*Green droppings*

Green droppings could be a number of things. First do you feed pellets greens or alfalfa.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Green poo can be from too much corn . If it is runny/watery and green with bubbles you might have some problems.


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## asdfghjonathan (Jul 31, 2013)

do you need anybirds? where are you located?


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

No I don't feed pellets, and yes the poop is water sometimes. Some of the birds poo is more brown with white and not watery. They seem fine for the most part other than green poo. There is one that looks like he is shivering, and is usually puffed up. He does not seem healthy. A guy I spoke to. Told me he thinks it might be worms. Idk


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

Any help lol


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I would try some kind of probiotics first . I don't think worms cause green droppings. 

The brown dropping with white are normal and you probably could have loft or diet related issues with the green droppings. Birds not feeling well go off their feed a bit and that could be the cause for the watery green dropping too. 

If you can't find a powdered animal probiotics then you could get some fresh garlic and vinegar or apple cider vinegar. A small bottle at the local store cost a few dollars , and garlic cloves are cheap also. Cut , smash or press the garlic cloves into a pulp and place all the pulp into your water container and add 2 TBS of the vinegar too. This should make one gal. of water. Give this water mix for a week and see if it helps. The probiotic can be given at the same time and this mix will not hurt your other birds, they all can drink the same water.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

A shivering, puffed bird looking like he is feeling sorry for himself is definitely sick.

First thing is to isolate him - the others might be fine for now but the likely hood is he will pass it on to them

Also sick birds cannot control their own body temperature, which is why he is always puffed up. He needs to be out of the loft, on a heating pad (on LOW) and monitored. I use a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel since I do not have a heating pad.

As for what he might have - sorry can't help you there I'm still new at this.

You should check his throat for signs of canker, his nose for discharge, his mouth for mucus and listen closely to his breathing. These will all be clues to help you identify what is wrong with him.

Your first priority though is to get him somewhere warm away from the other birds


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*подсыпка учас*

Мощный песчаный делювий на широких склонах при относительно малом стоке воды не возникает , так как выпадают осадки успевают фильтроваться в песчаные породы , НЕ стекая по поверхности склона . Там , где идет разрушение твердых пород , в делювий поступает крупный материал в виде брекчии и щебня , часто составлял целые горизонты в основании делювиальных толщ. Исследование делювиальных отложений склонов показало , что главная масса делювии возникла со времени образования глубоких долин купить грунт на подсыпку вышгород древней гидрографической сети . Верхние горизонты делювиальных толщ месяцами заканчиваются новейшим делювии , достигающий иногда мощности в несколько метров , сильно окрашенным перегноем. Возникновение окрашенных перегноем слоев новейшего делювии , как и образование аллювиально – делювиальных.


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*купить грунт*

Микроорганизмы энергично изменяют не только органическую , но и минеральнучастину почвы. Жизнедеятельность их зависит от комплекса почвенных условий , которые могут либо способствовать, либо задерживать развитие микробов. Количество микроорганизмов в почве достигает огромных величин . В 1 гцилинних почв насчитывается 0,5 - 2 , в окультуренных приму грунт бесплатно - 2 - 3 и бильшемильярдив микробов. Вес сухой массы их достигает 0,1-0,3 т / га и более.


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*подсыпка грун*

Современное почвоведение достигло такого уровня , при котором можно приступить не только к коренному улучшению почв , но и создание новых вариантов почв с максимально высоким плодородием. К началу Х1Х века почву изучали крайне недостаточно и науки о нее не было. Только в конце Х1Х учение о почве стало четкой , ясно очертанной дисциплиной , что имеет свои методику , теорию , задачи и перспективы грунт киев купить. Почвоведение впервые основано в нашей стране.


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*продам грунт*

Почвообразующими породами могут быть грунт на подсыпку васильков продукты выветриванием массивно-кристаллических и осадочных пород. Этими породами чаще всего являются продукты выветривания осадочных пород. Однако наиболее старые осадочные горные породы обычно прикрыты новейшими отложениями . Залегая непосредственно на поверхности земли , они служат основным материнскими породами.


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*грунт цена ки&*

На почвообразование может влиять ветер , вызывая дефляцию. При скорости у поверхности почвы > 5 м / сек он отрывает мелкие почвенные частицы и переносит их по воздуху , доли средних размеров отсыпка дорог , а большие катятся по поверхности. Ветер сприяеобмину воздуха атмосферы и почвы , усиливая испарение воды с поверхности земли и из почвы.


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## Loffopeneurce (Dec 29, 2013)

*нужна подсыпк*

Мощный песчаный делювий на широких склонах при относительно малом стоке воды не возникает , так как выпадают осадки успевают фильтроваться в песчаные породы , НЕ стекая по поверхности склона . Там , где идет разрушение твердых пород , в делювий поступает крупный материал в виде брекчии и щебня , часто составлял целые горизонты в основании делювиальных толщ. Исследование делювиальных отложений склонов показало , что главная масса делювии возникла со времени образования глубоких долин купить грунт на подсыпку вышгород древней гидрографической сети . Верхние горизонты делювиальных толщ месяцами заканчиваются новейшим делювии , достигающий иногда мощности в несколько метров , сильно окрашенным перегноем. Возникновение окрашенных перегноем слоев новейшего делювии , как и образование аллювиально – делювиальных.


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

*another update on my loft build progress*

http://youtu.be/LnxxR0d3xLI , also quik update on the bird he is still not looking 100% but he does not seem as bad as he used to . he still shivers but not as much as before hopefully he keeps improving


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## jtrujillo707 (Oct 3, 2013)

asdfghjonathan said:


> do you need anybirds? where are you located?


right now i dont think i need any birds. the man i got mine from told me, if the bird was giving me trouble to just cull him and he would give me more, i dont have the heart to kill the bird just because he is sick.


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

I have a couple of questions for you guys with more experience. First my birds were together during the winter I put some of them together in late January but had problems with them nesting I kept them together for several weeks but no eggs. I have six pairs put up now (21 days) and the fighting has stopped but they still are showing no signs of laying eggs. Is it necessary to have the birds separated male in one cage female in another cage during the winter to have them mate in the spring? 

Other than the pairs that I have gotten that were already paired up I have had no luck getting my birds to pair up either in a nesting compartment or out, my nest boxes are 18”wideX18”high X 24 long. I am sure I am doing something wrong but I can’t get a handle on exactly what it is. Is Feed quality or photo-period or some other factor that I am not getting doing me in? The guy that put his birds together in February has like 20 some young already I have 6. I am struggling here but have not a clue how to fix the problem. 

I am feeding the same ration every day (I mix it myself) along with some oyster shells mixed in with good commercial red pigeon grit. I change water every day and disinfect all containers as well every day. I have vaccinated them for Salmonella and PMV as well as Pox (That was a chore) I’m sure I am overlooking something here but for the life of me I can’t figure it out. Is a good 17% feed enough for breeders? I have read several books on the subject and feel I have followed the instructions as outlined but still no success. I am baffled. 

Another question how long can I let my Young Birds with the parents and not adversely affect my production? I know that some of you take the young out at 28 days I tried it and the young birds took a nose dive health wise. Is 30 or even 35 days more in line or not, and if not why?

Any help here would be appreciated greatly as I am alone out here with no mentor to help.


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

Birds that are already paired up will begin breeding sooner than your new pairs. The new cocks will want to make sure that they have secured a nest box for breeding before looking for a mate. Then choosing a hen that is receptive to him is another step. The solution here is to be patient. Other aspects could be the age of the birds. Older birds kind of know what to do where younger birds are figuring things out. Additionally, light and warmth can be a factor. 

A 17% protein mix is sufficient for raising nice babies. Some fanciers go a little higher with the protein, but 17% is very good.

Many fanciers keep feed in the trays 24/7 or they feed their breeders a few times a day. If the breeders are getting plenty of feed their young should be ready to be weaned around 28-30 days of age (check to see if they are feathered out under the wing before removing them from their parents).


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Have you put the birds on an extended lighted day . I would turn the lights on at least 17 hours a day to simulate the longest day of the year. If the birds are still slow to respond you could put your lights on 24 hours too.


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

OK guys thanks patience is a virtue that is distinctly lacking in my character.

I’ll give things a bit more time and see what develops.

If I go the light rout is there any special kind of light you would recommend or is a simple light bulb enough?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I have used just plain old 60 w bulbs but now I switched to the CFL style 100w with 1750 brightness . They only use 26 w of electricity so they cost about $3.00 a year compared to the old style at $80. a year for the same light. I have used a lower size for my chickens , I think it is a 60 CFL and it seams strong enough for them to lay eggs even in the dead of winter with temps way below 0. It will work with your Pigeons too.

Light is the KEY element with birds to tell their internal body clock when its time to breed and molt , so it would be worth your time exploring this if you haven't been using light to your advantage. Remember that June 21st is the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere with 17 hours of light so if your are going to race young birds this year I would also suggest keeping your light on all summer for 17 hours a day starting on June 21st, until your races are over then when you turn the lights off in the fall the birds will molt very quickly both body and wing feathers. It you want you could have timers turn the light on at 6am and off at 9am then back on at 6pm and off again at 11 pm which would give you around 17 hours of day light.


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