# Moody the goose & her ailment - update



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

So I took Moody to the avian vet here in town, and got a fecal done for her as well as a check-up. Her symptoms are:

→Poor feather quality; loss of feathers
→Smelly diarrhea
→Blood sometimes in feces
→Bloody vent (upon swab, we could see there was blood)
→Underweight, but has not _lost_ weight; she just didn't gain much weight as she was growing up. 
→She took a long time to grow.
→In the last while, I've noticed that her vent is coated with hard, black things.
I just recently realized that this is not poop, but is dried blood. It has many of these little things, looking like scabs but not attached to the skin, around the vent. She has also been pooping them out.

After the fecal, they said they did not find any eggs or worms of any type at the lab. They, however, said it is likely that she has a parasite (forget the name of the parasite, unfortunately) that is common in geese. They can get this from water that has been sitting out, and even grass, and can even cause her symptoms.

Just wanted some feedback and any suggestions or comments.
The medication prescribed is metronidazole, 1 250mg pill by a day for 7 days.
Though the vet is not certain this is the cause or will fix her problem, this is just something, she said, we should try. If this doesn't work, we will do a bacterial swab and have that tested to see if she has bacterial infections—the vet said that she suspects that may be the cause, if not a parasite.

Any thoughts?

Kind thanks,
Vasp


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sounds like she has Giardia.
The medication the vet put her on should clear up the problem.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Despite the fact that your reply was very short and to the point, it has been a very great relief to hear that from you. Indeed, it would seem Giardia would match up (and I believe that is what the vet told me as well). I will update you on her progress... I have heard it causes intestinal discomfort as well as pain; do you think that may be the reason that she screams and kicks when she is picked up? I tend to have to put one arm under her belly.

Thank you very much for your prompt, reassuring reply,
Vasp & Moody


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Vasp said:


> Despite the fact that your reply was very short and to the point, it has been a very great relief to hear that from you. Indeed, it would seem Giardia would match up (and I believe that is what the vet told me as well). I will update you on her progress... I have heard it causes intestinal discomfort as well as pain; do you think that may be the reason that she screams and kicks when she is picked up? I tend to have to put one arm under her belly.
> 
> Thank you very much for your prompt, reassuring reply,
> Vasp & Moody


Could be, but maybe she just doesn't like to be picked up. My Muscovy ducks would do the same when I picked them up. They just didn't enjoy the experience.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Thing is, she is always so comfortable in my arms after the initial screaming. She gets along with people and calms down once I pick her up. Also, before she went into the backyard and started playing out there (there was a bucket of water that had been sitting there, rainfall after rainfall, leaves in it, that she was probably drinking from), she did not mind being picked up at all. I just wonder if the pain could be the cause of it... Due to the blood, I have read that it must be a pretty bad infection of it.

Cheers,
Vasp


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Could be, you will soon find out.


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Vasp, I don't know much about geese but I hope she does better soon. Your post is kind of hard to read because of the small print, maybe it's just me and I'm going blind.  Good luck to the goose!


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Sorry for the font size, Charis and Maryjane, and thank you for the well-wishes. I, too, hope that we find this to be her cure. It has been a long, anxious wait. It was hard to know that there was anything wrong with her partially due to the fact that she was always so lively and attentive. She always had a big appetite and loved to chew and play with everything, and she has had diarrhea since she was young. However, the blood, the smell, and the loss of feathers has gotten a lot worse over time. I am so glad that we likely have found the cause.

Kind thanks to all,
Vasp


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp,



Was Clostridiosis mentioned by your Vet?



Phil
l v


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

No, I do not believe she mentioned Clostridiosis at all... Should she have?

Oh, and by the way, I have read that Metronidazole needs to be repeated most of the time in order to completely wipe out the Giardia, as it tends to be rather tricky. But, I have also read that Metronidazole tends to wipe out all the good bacteria in their system... What sort of pro-biotics should I offer her? Are there any specific ones I should look for? With acidophilus be good enough, just bought from a health food store...?

Thank you,
Vasp


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's quite unlikely it's Clostidiosis because it's quite rare. I think you are on the right track with your treatment plan. The best probotics are the live cultures you would find in the refriderated section at the health food store.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Live cultures? Well, I'll take a look tonight if I can find anything that's open.  Should I just give her a human dosage, or half of a human dosage, or just wing it entirely? Is it possible to _overdose_ on probiotics? It's great, how I feed her the pills, by the way. I cut a little hole in a piece of cantaloupe, fit the pill in, and she chomps it right down without protest! They are very bitter pills, and do not dissolve in water and have a strange coating on them, so it's not recommended to chop them up. Besides, this way is easier. She's shown no negative side effects yet... 

Do you know if I'd have to repeat the treatment, and if so, how many times is commonly needed?

Thank you,
Vasp

PS: I'm getting my whole family to sign the petition.


----------



## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

I hope your duck gets better... I feel kinda bad I know nothing about ducks and cant help at all. Charis will help you though. It also sounds like you need a new vet.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you for signing the petition.
Trees Gray would be a good member to PM about dosage of probotic.
I would repeat treatment after 10 -14 days.
Keep the medication on hand incase you see the symptoms return after that.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

> I hope your duck gets better... I feel kinda bad I know nothing about ducks and cant help at all. Charis will help you though. It also sounds like you need a new vet.


Well, my vet, Dr. Fisher, is the _only_ avian specialist in our city. The rest of them are absolutely terrible and don't know the crop from the gizzard.



> Thank you for signing the petition.
> Trees Gray would be a good member to PM about dosage of probotic.
> I would repeat treatment after 10 -14 days.
> Keep the medication on hand incase you see the symptoms return after that.


I'll consult my vet about repeating the treatment after 10-14 days, and I'll PM Trees Gray. And signing the petition was the least I could do for the pigeons of this often unfair world.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

hi Vasp, 



As for treating Giardia...


What is the dosage per 24 hours?


And, what does the Goose weigh?



Lastly, I myself do not recall reading or hearing that Metronidaole eradicates all or any desireable intestinal flora and fauna...


Do we have any sources for this to refer to?



I could not find any sources for Metronidaole dosage for a Goose for Giardia...but I did try...granted, your Vet had allowed whatever it is, but I wanted to double check if I could.


Good luck..!


Oh, hmmmmmm...'Cantaloupe'...is a definite 'No' for some species of Mammals, and Avian wise I do not know, but if it was me, I would probably not feed it to a Duck or Goose or Swan or other forraging type Water fowl...

Melons have peculiar digestive requirements and will tend to make digestive problems in those species who are not by habit Melon eaters in Nature...and, overall, very few are...


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, I've never had a problem with giving melon or cantaloupe as treats .. ducks love them .. geese may or may not .. geese are more grazing birds and would go for some really nice green grass or fresh clover.

Terry


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

My chickens love melons and my ducks did too. They also liked the greens.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Well, I've never had a problem with giving melon or cantaloupe as treats .. ducks love them .. geese may or may not .. geese are more grazing birds and would go for some really nice green grass or fresh clover.
> 
> Terry



Hi Terry, Vasp, 



Could be they get away with it alright...


'Melons' broadly are not a good thing for Ungulates anyway, or can even kill them in extreme situations...and, for people, one does well to not combine any Melon kinds with most other food-kinds, or, at least, combining them will put compromises and conflicts on the digestive system.


This is fairly well known among any well informed Nutritionists or the extremely rare, and actually informed Physician.


At any rate, compromised digestion is the result if combining Melons with almost any other food kinds, as the Mellons require conflicting Acid and digestive chemistry from oter foods te systemis trying to address at te same time, so the system trying to digest them has to compromise on the whole, trying to also manage the peculiar requirements of te Melon Fruit kinds.


So, I would say, as for me, even though impirically, Ducks or Geese may seem to get away with it, I would allow it only in very definite moderations, and, not permit the Mellon foods to be combined with Grains, Meats or most other food kinds...

I used to know, but have forgotten, what foods are considered alright to combine with Melons, but I can maybe do some 'googles' and find out...


I would think any Duck or Goose who has been having digestive troubles would benifit from any 'edge' we can give them in these regards, even to include Natural Papaya or Bromiliad foods, Pineapple even, or suppliments derived from tese, which contain enymes well known to aid digestion...while with-holding foods which ( are known to , or probably would ) conflict or compromise digestion.

Wholesome raw Fish especially wen cut up from whole so nothing is discarded, Green or Seasoned Grains, fresh leafy Greens and Sprouts, any kind of Berrys we would eat, and, many other sub-acid Fruits such as Apples, would all combine well and be nutritious of course...Pineapple and Papaya also combine very well with all of these...


Some info here...and,one could do some 'googles' and review other references -

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/food-combining.htm


More here - 


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Food+Combining+Melons&btnG=Search



Best wishes!


Phil
l v


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2008)

wow that is something I never knew myself but will keep in mind for future references thanks .


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

That's strange. Moody dislikes most vegetables, but she goes crazy for anything fruity.

As for wiping out the good bacteria...
On a site for dogs and people, they speak of the same treatment Moody is on for the same ailment...

"One common treatment both for dogs and people is Flagyl (generic name metronidazole) which also wipes out "good" bacteria and protozoa in the intestinal tract; treatment should be followed by several days of probiotic (some kind of acidophilus supplement or yogurt with active cultures) to repopulate the intestinal tract with good flora."

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg0723581429695.html

She is taking 250mg a day. She's about 13.5 pounds.
Moody gets pineapple and apple whenever she wants it. If melon is a problem, I can always cut it back and include more pineapples and apples...Though I think she is particularly fond of melons.
Whenever I feed her fruits, however, she eats them alone. She doesn't eat them with her pellets or anything.
Also, geese do not go for fish like ducks do. They don't even spend that much time in the water. Ducks and swans eat more aquatic plants, bugs and fish, whereas geese spend most of their time on land, grazing. Moody has never accepted fish in her diet.

Her feather quality is pretty terrible, on a side note...

Cheers,
Vasp


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp, 



Of course different Avian Species will have the same medicines ( for the same ills ) in sometimes quite different dosages, even when the Patient is about the same weight...oweing to differences in the respective Specie's metabolisms or other make up somehow.



So, given that a Pigeon would get 200 to 250 mG per-day per Kilo of weight, ( ie something like 60 mG a-day for an average pigeon who weighs a little over 300 Grams ) if being treated for say Trichomiasis... the dose as mG-Kilo comes out to be rather 'light' for your Goose in this regard or comparison anyway.


But, since I do not know or have any tables for doseage for Geese, for Giardia or anything else, I just do not know...


Mellon wise, my own opinion would be, if she really likes Canteloupe, then, to make sure she gets to enjoy it by itself, and not where other foods would be eaten soon before or soon after...and that should be fine then, or fine enough.


Melons are yummy! I love them too...


Phil
l v


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, on the 'Metronidazole eradicates benificial flora and fauna from the intestines' thing...



I recognise you have a reference from a Dog site forum which says so...but, I am thinking that maybe we should look farther to see if it is really so as something known to be so.


I do not know, and, I had never heard that it does or would, but, who knows? Maybe it does, and if so, we should know about it definitely.


As for my own experience, I have treated many sick Pigeons of course, with Metronidazole, where Canker, and or signs of some sort of Trichomoniasis were present...often where other illnesses or infections were probable or definitely present also...


And, the usually and even drastically 'off' poops the Pigeon would initially have, would clear up soon and become nice looking 'good' poops...and with no 'probiotics' given.



So, as for me, I never saw anything to suggest impirically, that the Metronidazole had compromised their intestinal flora and fauna, or, if anything, what I had seen, was that the quality of digestion and of poops, very soon improved with the medicine.


Phil
l v


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Vasp said:


> That's strange. Moody dislikes most vegetables, but she goes crazy for anything fruity.
> 
> As for wiping out the good bacteria...
> On a site for dogs and people, they speak of the same treatment Moody is on for the same ailment...
> ...


I wouldn't over due it with the pineapple. I would just give it in small amounts and only once a week or so. I love it but if I eat too much I have an allergic reaction to it. I understand that is fairly common. Her feather quality may improve after her next molt.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Thank you, Charis and Phil. Moody only gets her fruits on the side of her pellets. I've read that you shouldn't mix them, and I never have. Her feathers are absolutely terrible, especially the larger ones on her wings. But I assume if she gets better, after her next molt, they will improve.

Over the past day or two, I've noticed that her poop doesn't smell nearly as bad as it used to... And increasingly so. I held up a little bit of it in a piece of diaper, and I was shocked that I could only smell the diaper! The consistency of the poop isn't getting much better, but then again, it depends on how much water she drinks. She seems to drink it in excess quite a lot of the time. Also, over the past few days, the amount of blood in her poop has decreased. Today, there was only one tiny, hardly visible streak of it, the size of a tiny thread. It would seem her appetite is increasing a bit, as well. Could these be signs of improvement? 

I'd like to do some more research on dosage of metronidazole in geese and also the whole wiping out bacterial flora as well... Would it be harmful to give her some good probiotics, just a little bit, just in case it does wipe out some? Also, even if the dose is a little bit 'light', couldn't I just continue the medication for longer...? It's for 7 days, but I can always get a refill, and you're supposed to repeat after 10-14 days, so, it wouldn't be too much of a problem, would it?

Regards,
Vasp


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You know, fruit can give them runny poop. Sounds like Moody had a really bad case of giargia too. I'm glad you took her in. I had a friend loose a Muscovy to giardia a few years ago.
I'll ask my friend Deb about the dosage. She's in Iowa for a funeral through 
tomorrow so I won't be talking to her until mid week.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Vasp said:


> Thank you,er Charis and Phil. Moody only gets her fruits on the side of her pellets. I've read that you shouldn't mix them, and I never have. Her feathers are absolutely terrible, especially the larger ones on her wings. But I assume if she gets better, after her next molt, they will improve.




Hi Vasp, 



Well, I ( and you, and her, and everyone else on to this thread ) sure hope her Feathers improve after her next molt..!

I am sure she hates having feathers which are not in good condition..!

Unless the Feathers are being damaged physically from her backing against Wire Mesh or Twigs or something, breaking the fine filiments or something...it would have to be signalling some sort of deficiency I would think.


Once you get her over this Geiardia thing, I think she is going to be a much happier gal all round, and who knows how much this was messing with her in many ways, messing with her Liver and digestive quality and vitamine-mineral assimilations and all in all, has probably been a real drain on her system.


Enteritis or any form of Intestinal illness or infection or parasites of the digestive system, compromise all sorts of things nutritionally as well as making toxins which poison the host, effecting not only local conditions, but effecting their whole system globally....and wanting to be drinking excess Water is common with various Intestinal troubles.


Since I do not know anything about Metronidazole and Geese, I can not venture any opinion on what the dose should be, nor, how long a regimen should be.


But, ask your Vet if you can, what he thinks, and or ask him if you in fact understood correctly his recommendation of the dose.


I know my Vet sometimes goofs up the dosage for meds, and, so have I of course...so it is always best to check, and double check and check again even!




> Over the past day or two, I've noticed that her poop doesn't smell nearly as bad as it used to... And increasingly so. I held up a little bit of it in a piece of diaper, and I was shocked that I could only smell the diaper! The consistency of the poop isn't getting much better, but then again, it depends on how much water she drinks. She seems to drink it in excess quite a lot of the time. Also, over the past few days, the amount of blood in her poop has decreased. Today, there was only one tiny, hardly visible streak of it, the size of a tiny thread. It would seem her appetite is increasing a bit, as well. Could these be signs of improvement?



I would say these are definitely signs of improvement..! And this is still early in the regimen I would think, so...very good so far..! 


This has been a long standing condition, illness or infection, so...even with the pro-tem so-far effects of the medicines, her system probably has a lot to tidy up and catch up on repairing, too.





> I'd like to do some more research on dosage of metronidazole in geese and also the whole wiping out bacterial flora as well... Would it be harmful to give her some good probiotics, just a little bit, just in case it does wipe out some?




I myself would wait untill some days after the medicine regimine had come to a close, rather than to give pro-biotics during, or too soon after the medicine.



Medicines which Do effect the flora and fauna, can effect them in such a way, that the loading of extra well-intended flora and fauna, can make serious or deadly problems for the patient, since the whole balance is off, and, the erstwhile friendly kinds can get very UNfriendly when their natural balance-keepers have been messed with.


Too, really, any foods exposed to normal ambient Air, instantly acquire many wild Yeasts, Spores, bacterias and other airborne microbes, and, these of course enter into our systems when we eat anything...just as when a Pigeon or Goose eats anything, so at least some of their 'probiotics' in forms their system is used to, they will get soon even with no one doing anything to cause it.

But I think, if it was me, I'd wait a few days after the meds, to be giving any.





> Also, even if the dose is a little bit 'light', couldn't I just continue the medication for longer...?




The caution with a too light of dose, is that it will kill off the weaker or susepteble target organisms, while leaving the more 'serious' strains or cultivating the resistant ones...and, a longer regimen at too low a dose, would only do this even moreso.


So, in theory, the correct dose ( when it is possible somehow to have information which allows one to somehow make the determination, or hope it is right ) for a regimen of some definite length, is supposed to remove the target organisms, possibly eliminating the stongest of them toward the middle or middle-end...while stopping short of making a toxic condition itself, or other compromise to the patient.

But I am speaking out of my depth here as for understanding how these things work, since medicines often work in really very complex ways, as for how the medicine and the patient's immune system, work together...other than, that too 'light' of a dose is considered very unwise, as is ceasing a regimen prematurely, and, for the same reason - it can breed resistant strains of the target organism, which it did not get to eliminate.


So, if you are on good terms with your vet, I think maybe find a way to double check that the dose is right for her weight...since this happens to be a Pigeon Dose, for one Kilo...or, 250 mG-per-Kilo/each day, is the normal Pigeon dose...and, your Goose of course weighs about 6.5 Kilos, yet is getting only as much meds per day as two hefty Homers would have had between them.


Possibly Geese have more sensitivity t5o Metronidaole, and need only a smaller dose to effect equal results, I do not know...but it is worth having your Vet double-check I think...unless any of us can find some references, and, so far, I could not find any.




> It's for 7 days, but I can always get a refill, and you're supposed to repeat after 10-14 days, so, it wouldn't be too much of a problem, would it?



If it was me, I would get with the Vet and tactfully see how he came to the dosage determination, or otherwise try and verify what it should be ( if he merely double checks an ambiguous or unverified reference, of course it owuld only seem to verify the question, but, could still be in error)...and, once the dose is establishes with some fair confidence, not depart from that...

And, the second round of course is to eliminate any previously immature or in some phase of life-cycle target organisms, who would have remained somehow invulnerable in cycst-stages or whatever...so, again, for both courses of the regimen, the important thing is that the per-day mG dose, is correct for a patient of her weight, and, of her Species.


Regards,
Vasp[/QUOTE]


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I am glad to hear Moody is improving. Non-stinky poops is a sign of improvement definitely. 
Can't add anything to what Phil et al have said. Stay the course on the antibotics w/ as close to the recommended strength as possible. Giardia is a tough go in humans, and I'm sure it's the same w/everything else that catches it. 

It's endemic in most of the streams and lakes in this country. There isn't any place that is pristine anymore (at least in the lower 48 states). If an animal has visited the place, you can almost bet there is some level of giardia present. Even up at 13 and 14 thousand feet in the Rockies, I will no longer drink the water or ice melt coming out from the bottom of the snow fields like we used to when I was a kid. Too many people, too many elk.


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Moody is doing even better today. Nearly no smell at all and more consistency to the poop. Her vent and the area around her vent used to be quite red and swollen, but now appears to be a healthy, light pink. There is still some sort of scabbing on the vent, but yet again, I should hope this improves as well. She's drinking less water, but still quite a bit, and yet retaining more consistency in her poops. However, after a big drink, the consistency does become more liquidy, but I guess that is to be expected. (Is it?)

Not sure, but her lobes look a bit plumper today. Her beak is back to its rosy pink. I don't think I mentioned it, but before she was started on Metronidazole, her beak was often really pale. Her appetite is increasing and the blood has vanished from her poop. And, to think, just days ago there were large splotches of blood in it! She seems a little less anxious than usual, but she calls for me when it's bath time more... She seemed to be quite aloof during the course of her illness. All in all, everything is going great. My family was crowded around the bath tub, _marveling_ at the fact that our Moody goose no longer smelled unbearable! In fact, they couldn't smell anything. Before, you could smell the pukey-sewerey smell of her poop from down the hall from the bathroom, and it made being anywhere near it unbearable. But not anymore.

I'm unbelievably happy with these results so far, and I'm going to call my vet and discuss the dosage with her. I have not been able to find articles online about the dosage of metronidazole in geese, but I have managed to find a few things here and there...

This is worth a look at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=WI...XDR&sig=Bg8njCV1-Y3s7r1k5-4eed7hVPs#PPA162,M1

Just zoom in so it's not eye-stingingly tiny, and scroll down a bit to where it says 'Metronidazole' (it's highlighted). As you can see, they give the dosages as this:

Horses: 20mg/kg by mouth twice daily.
Dogs & cats: 20mg/kg by mouth daily.

It also gives a warning about how bad overdosing on the medication can be. However, I've not seen any negative effects with goosey--not appetite loss, or weakness, or dizzyness or anything. She seems way happier than usual. However, all the 'goose people' I've talked to seem fine with the 250mg/day dosage. Could it be a higher dose than even _horses_ because of the severity of her infection, or is that impossible? Could it be that Giardia in geese is even trickier? I'm not sure, but I'll have to phone the vet and discuss this dosage, as well as repeating it in about 10 days.



> You know, fruit can give them runny poop. Sounds like Moody had a really bad case of giargia too. I'm glad you took her in. I had a friend loose a Muscovy to giardia a few years ago.
> I'll ask my friend Deb about the dosage. She's in Iowa for a funeral through
> tomorrow so I won't be talking to her until mid week.


_Thank you_, it'd be great to get a second opinion from an experienced individual on the dosage of Metronidazole for Giardia. I'm sad to hear that a duck was lost to this tricky little amoeba; I'm so glad that I haven't lost my little one to it. Geese are hardier than ducks, though. They can stick out most things.

Also, I didn't really 'take Moody in', per say... She's my pet goose. She lives in my house wearing Boni's BirdWear and Nancy Townsend's duck and goose harnesses, though I've been sticking with the former lately, mainly due to the massive amounts of stinky poop the poor little girl has been expelling due to Giardia. The pouch is larger in _Honkwear_ and it made dealing with such large amounts of poop a lot easier. She's just under 8 months old and has to deal with such a bad case of Giardia--from now on, I'm going to be carefully regulating what she drinks!

She looks so much happier... Taking a nice nap on my bed right now. What a cutie...

She seems to be going through a molt. Been dropping some large flight feathers in the past few days. Doesn't seem to be in pain and there is no blood or damage or anything, so I do hope it's not a bad thing, but rather a natural thing. Let's hope so, and that healthier feathers grow in... I'm going to do some searching around and when she's off her medication, get her some ACV water and some type of garlic, just for occasional 'treats' that are good for her... What sort of vitamin supplements would you suggest; or do you think fresh fruits & veggies would be good enough...?

Oh, and I'm also going to be going fresh again, Phil.  The only reason I stopped was because she was losing a lot, I repeat _a lot_ of weight due to the lower protein levels. Normally, lower protein levels are good, especially for heavy-weight geese, but with Giardia, she was skinny even on high protein levels. It wasn't good at the time, but she's going to be getting back onto a fresh diet ASAP...

Trees Gray and I have talked about some probiotics that I can pick up for her, but as you said, Phil, I will be sure to do so quite a bit after she's better and off her medication... I'm going to start using some positive reinforcement to get her trained up once she's better as well... My fellow goose owner has her goose doing many interesting things that help in keeping the bird and the owner safe. Willow, the goose, actually wakes her owner up when she is breathing irregularly... See, she has diabetes, and the goose can sense a threat to her owner's health and wakes her up promptly. Willow is a certified animal assistant to her owner.  It's the only way she was able to keep Willow in her house.

Now to sum up a _very_ long post...
Moody is doing even better, I will check up on the dose, I'm starting a new fresh diet again once she's better, and the end of this problem will, hopefully, be turning over a new leaf in our strange relationship...

Cheers,
Vasp


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Great news, Vasp! I'm so glad Moody is doing better. Please do keep us posted. Have you considered giving her a handful of dry cat food every day? Lots of protein in that, and mine love it. It's too much protein to be a major part of the diet, but it can help put on some weight when needed.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp,



Makes me very happy to hear all these good improvements being relayed!


I'd say no worries on her loosing Feathers, I have seen that happen when a sick Bird turns a corner...in a sense, her system is saying "Hmmm! I have enough faith in the future now, and in my energy reserves, to start replacing some of these old Feathers!" 

I mean, if she looses ALL of them in the next week or something, then, of course, we would have to suppose there was some unusual thing or reaction going on!


Lol...


Anyway, the same medicine will sometimes be found to have very different dosages-per-Kilo of patient requirements, depending on the Species of the Patient.

And, by Species, I mean what KIND Of 'Bird' even, because what kind of Bird ( or other Creature) will make a big difference.

Probably, Horses, Mules, Ponys and so on, or, Dogs, Wolves, Foxes and so on, will most likely have no meaningful differences, but among different Birds, their long since divergences from one-another, and, their peculiar system's propensitys or adaptations or as may be, will make for very different dosages.


Horses, Dogs and so on, probably have no basis of comparison to Birds for guessing any Geese dosages, and, neither do Pigeons-to-Geese, for some drugs/medicines anyway.


Most 'regular' kinds of Anti-Biotics, one can use the same mG-per-Kilo on any warm blooded Creature, and, come out just dandy...but other kinds of drugs or medicines, things will tend to be quite widely varying as for mG-per-Kilo.


The Horse dose all tolled, for 24 hours, for Metronidazole would never come close to being effective for a Pigeon...who weighs four thousand times LESS..!


So the effects or efficacy of various Drugs and their dosage, will be very different in different Species, for sure...


'Willow' sounds so cool..!


What a great story there with that...


Happy Goose..!



Best wishes!


Phil
l v


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

So, Moody had some blood in her poop today--actually, quite a bit, considering. About the same amount she had before she went on the medication. However, the smell is at a minimum. Due to my room being very warm today, she drank more water than usual and therefore the consistency was not as good as I would have liked. However, things are better than they were prior to the medication.

I only have 1 more pill, but I just don't think that will do it. It seems like it's getting better, but there seems to be so much more time to go in curing this. I'm curious, but is it possible she doesn't have Giardia, or are these improvements obvious clues that she does? What other possibilities would there be?

Yet again, the swelling and redness around her vent is gone. She has a good appetite, doesn't smell and is doing well. She is more boisterous than usual.

There was just some blood in her poop--but only, for some reason, while she was in the bath. (This is usually how it goes when there IS blood). Do you think it will go away with time, if I continue the treatment? Should I continue the treatment? Should I get her a bacterial swab to see if she has a bacterial infection? I have seen improvements AND she has all the symptoms of Giardia, so I just don't know.

Cheers,
Vasp


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Vasp,

I think the bacterial swabs would be a good idea just to try and make sure that you treating for the right thing and with the right medication. Since the medication does seem to be working, it would appear that whatever is wrong is responding to the current treatment .. still, it would be nice to know for sure. I also think it would be wise to continue the current treatment until/unless something else in indicated.

Terry


----------



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I'll have to get a refill then, tomorrow at the earliest. She doesn't smell nearly as bad as she did before the medication, but there is still the hint of scent there. I figure it may be because of the poultry pellets she is on. However, before, the smell was completely abnormal. I sure hope we are able to eradicate her problems.

Cheers,
Vasp


Update: Tonight at bath time, Moody pooped a lot of blood. Literally, not just streaks but a lot of it. Sometimes, 1/8 to 1/3 of the poop was just blood. The feathers around her vent were turned pink from the blood. She doesn't seem to be affected by it, behaviorally. She's still eating with zest and hardly smelling at all.

I really worry for her. Maybe this is the downward turn that is sometimes taken in illnesses, right after you thought everything was going well...? Maybe this will just get worse and worse...

Then again, it's 'frank blood', if you know what that is. She eats rolled corn (big, flat pieces of corn, some are slightly sharp) every day. She adores it. Do you think this might be the cause of the blood... At least partly? I'm sad to say she doesn't have any grit as of now (I have oyster shell, but I don't know if that's good enough or if she'll even eat it, and no other place to get grit, and there's 4 feet of snow outside), so maybe digesting it is just too hard for her?

The only change I've made in the last two days is that she gobbled up some cat grass I grew for her. She loved it.

Any ideas?

Update again: Moody has gained weight since she's gone on her medication. At least one pound or more.

Vasp


----------

