# Sick pigeon with canker?



## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

I have a sick bird that has an Adams apple looking throat, not eating, is ruffling his feathers and has diarrhea. I'm not seeing any yellow in his throat at this time but I had 2 birds with the same symptoms about a month and a half ago only they did have the yellow in their throats. One died and the other one is doing fine now. Does this sound like canker? And has anyone tried the tricoli stop as treatment to canker?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*You don't necessarily have to see canker in the throat for them to have it. Yes, those are definite symptoms of canker. 

Did you isolate the birds with symptoms? You need to do so as it is passed on to other birds via drinking water.

Also, make sure you follow directions and treat for the recommended time on medicine, sometimes you have to treat even longer depending on how long it was going on before you start treatment. Always best to rotate medicine, and not use the same one.

I have always used either the spartrix and metronidozole. Here is a list of products: http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html

Tricoli stop is more of a preventative and not a drug, you need the heavy duty medication to get rid of the knot in its throat and wipe it out as quickly as possible.

*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I normally use Metronidazole and have very good results, but it is good, as Sky mentioned to rotate. You can often get Fishzole from pet stores that sell fish. Just make sure that it contains only Metro. The med you mentioned, I don't trust, as it has different things to treat other illness.
It is also advertised as having natural ingredients, rather than drugs. I wouldn't have much faith in it. Also that it can cure canker in 3 hrs, or something crazy like that. I would get Metronidazole or similar.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you for the advise! I did seperate him at the first sign of illness. I did give the tricoli stop this morning and after about 2 hours he started pecking at his food. I will know more once I get home as to how he is doing. I will get an antibiotic though to do a more thorough treatment. Can I get any medications from a pet or farm store or do I have to order it? Thank you!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lu's loft said:


> Thank you for the advise! I did seperate him at the first sign of illness. I did give the tricoli stop this morning and after about 2 hours he started pecking at his food. I will know more once I get home as to how he is doing*. I will get an antibiotic though to do a more thorough treatment. Can I get any medications from a pet or farm store or do I have to order it? *Thank you!!


Read my last post.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

I checked on him when I got home and he seems to be feeling much better. He has eaten some, he's no longer ruffling his feathers and he seems perkier. I do still plan to treat him with an antibiotic though because of the lump in his throat. So hopefully he is on the path to recovery. Does using the cider vinegar in their water help as a preventative measure for canker?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He needs a canker med for the throat lump. Metronidazole is a good one. For at least 10 days, and it may take 14.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Lu,


Lu's loft said:


> I will get an antibiotic though to do a more thorough treatment.


Canker is caused by protozoan so antibiotic won't cure it. U need to put Jay's and Skyeking's advice into practice. Spartrix and metronidazole pills work great for individual treatment. More u delay, more the triches mutiply. Get the meds and start the course as soon as u can


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks for the advise. When I say antibiotic I do mean metronidazole (it is an intestinal antibiotic). So what causes the lump in the throat?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lu's loft said:


> Thanks for the advise. When I say antibiotic I do mean metronidazole (it is an intestinal antibiotic).* So what causes the lump in the throat?*


*
*


The canker build up. And it can get so bad that they cannot eat or breath.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

So at this point I'm debating whether or not to even get the Metronidazole. I gave the Tricoli-stop yesterday morning and yes within 3 hours he was perkier, no longer ruffled and he was eating. Today he seems even better, the lump in his throat is smaller and his stools aren't normal but they are more formed today. Do i wait and see or get it and dose him anyways?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you think the med you have will work, then use it. But you will have to use it till the canker is gone. I would be interested in seeing if it works. You cannot stop treatment till there is a cure. Please keep us updated.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

The purpose of spartrix/metronidazole/tricoli stop or whatever is to cure canker. If it works with ur pigeons then its alright. But a specific drug has its own advantages,choice is urs.


Lu's loft said:


> So what causes the lump in the throat?


Only 10% of canker is visible,rest of 90% is inside. Trichomoniasis gallinae are flagellates. They feed on blood cells,tissues and bacteria. So they tend to find a place where they can find a softer tissues in the body. They can't survive in the open air(thankfully) so they can't accumulate and multiply outside the host's body. So they attack respiratory,gastro intestinal or liver of pigeons to find themselves a favourable spot full of soft tissue. Like I said they also eat bacteria which accumulates in the throat,crop and intestines so they tend to stick in the throat,crop/respiratory and gastro intestinal track which are favorite soft tissue spots to have blood cells,bacteria and tissue. So when they build up in huge quantities,u see a lesion or lump.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Lu's loft said:


> So at this point I'm debating whether or not to even get the Metronidazole. I gave the Tricoli-stop yesterday morning and yes within 3 hours he was perkier, no longer ruffled and he was eating. Today he seems even better, the lump in his throat is smaller and his stools aren't normal but they are more formed today. Do i wait and see or get it and dose him anyways?


*Continue the Tricoli stop but meanwhile purchase a canker med as mentioned earlier. You need two drugs as recommended to wipe it out once and for all and since you did have other birds come down with it earlier you should treat the whole flock. *


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for all the information!! He seems to be doing much better every day with just the tricoli stop so far. He's eating great, no longer ruffled, stools are better and he's much perkier. The lump in his throat is smaller but how long does that generally take to go completely away?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*What do the instructions on the tri-stop say in regards to length of time to give it?

I myself would continue to give it, until all symptoms are gone. But meanwhile I would order the spartrix and metro and finish with some spartrix, because of my concern to your bird building a resistance to tri-stop.*


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

The TriColi-stop is a one dose medication. I had some correspondence with the company that makes it and they said one dose because it gets rid of 99% of the trichamonus. You can dose again but they feel that it isn't necessary and just redundant. To this point I have seen nothing but improvement every day. So I assume it is working. The lump in his throat is smaller but being inexperienced with birds I don't know how long it generally takes to go away. Also I have treated my other pigeons with the tricoli-stop as a preventative. So far they all seem to be doing ok. Does the apple cider also help as a preventative for canker? Also is Spartrix an intestinal antibiotic like metronidazole?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Lu's loft said:


> The TriColi-stop is a one dose medication. I had some correspondence with the company that makes it and they said one dose because it gets rid of 99% of the trichamonus


We all know how well those so called one dose medications work. Ofcourse the correspondents!,they are gonna say so... No drug on earth can cure trichomoniasis with single dose. They are gonna be back (maybe with resistance).


Lu's loft said:


> Also is Spartrix an intestinal antibiotic like metronidazole?


If u think metronidazole or spartrix work on canker because its an antibiotic then u r wrong...! Metronidazole is an anemicide, anti bacterial and anti protozoan altogether. The antibiotic part work on inflammation of intestine as pigeons eat less and drink more when affected by canker. It also cure diarrhea. But it won't cure triches
Its the anti protozoan part of the metro that fights and kills the triches. Antibiotic part of this med may assist but donot kill the triches.


Lu's loft said:


> Does the apple cider also help as a preventative for canker?


Yes,Its believed that ACV creates an acidic environment inside the gut of pigeons which is not liked by protozoan,bacteria and parasites.


Lu's loft said:


> I have treated my other pigeons with the tricoli-stop as a preventative


If treated individually it can prove to be a preventive. Prevention could also be done with ronidazole


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

The question I still pose is about how long does it take for the lump in the throat to go away?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Lu's loft said:


> The question I still pose is about how long does it take for the lump in the throat to go away?


Its depends on the severity of canker. When detected early lump start to go away on/after third day of medication.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No one can say how long it should take. No one case is the same. But I don't believe that one dose of anything is going to do it.
Do you even know what is in the med?


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Its depends on the severity of canker. When detected early lump start to go away on/after third day of medication.


Thank you!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It sometimes takes a lot longer. Just depends. You really can't say a number of days. Could be a couple of weeks.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> No one can say how long it should take. No one case is the same. But I don't believe that one dose of anything is going to do it.
> Do you even know what is in the med?


I may dose him with it again, I'm not sure yet. Within hours of giving it I saw great improvement and he seems to continue improving. It is an organic acid compound.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Here is some info on the TriColi-stop for anyone that is interested.


THE EFFECT OF AN ORGANIC ACID COMPOUND ON INFECTION OF THE CROP WITH TRICHOMONAS GALLINAE IN RACING PIGEONS

REPORT ON THE ADMINISTRATION OF ONE CAPSULE - SLIGHTLY MODFIFIED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY REASONS.
Identification of the Test Facility and Investigator(s) for bacteriological examinations:
Test Facility: Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Ghent University (UG) Dept. of Pathology, Bacteriology, Avian Diseases –
Laboratory of Veterinary Bacteriology and Mycology. Salisburylaan 133, 9820 Merelbeke, Belgium
SUMMARY OF:
1st study_February 2013: Active ingredient 90mg/capsule + maizennameal as filler 2nd study May 2012: Active ingredient 90mg/capsule + Ca/Mg citrates as filler
1 OBJECTIVE OF THE STUDIES
The objective of the studies was to determine the influence of an orally administrated organic acid compound to racing pigeons naturally infected with Trichomonas gallinae.
2 EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN
Ten adult racing pigeons, naturally infected with T. gallinae, were at random assigned to 2 groups of 5 birds each. Prior to tablet administration a swab was taken from the crop of each bird for quantitative assessment of the presence of both agents. Immediately after collection of the swabs, a single capsule (containing 90 mg of the active ingredient) was administrated to each bird of the first group and the second group served as a positive control group. After administering the capsule, the pigeons were deprived from water for three hours. In all birds from both groups swabs were collected at 3 and 24 hours after tablet administration.
The experiments were performed twice, both with same active ingredient (90 mg), but different fillers.
First experiments (Feb 2013): Filler Maizennameal
Second experiments (May 2013): Filler Ca/Mg citrates
3 MATERIAL AND METHODS 3.1 Experimental animals
Adult, commercial, racing pigeons (Columba livia), mixed in gender, were purchased from Natural (Sint-Antonius Zoersel, Belgium). Swabs taken from the crop were collected from each pigeon prior to tablet administration, to examine the presence of T. gallinae . Twenty pigeons that tested positive for both latter agents were used in this study. The pigeons were housed individually and received feed and water ad libitum. The light schedule was 12 hours of light / 12 hours of darkness.
3.2 Sample preparation and examination
To check for presence of T.gallinae , the cotton buds of the swabs taken from the crop were inserted into a sterile tip and submerged into a microtube containing 100 μl of phosphate buffered saline (PBS). Next, the microtubes were centrifuged during 2 seconds at 800 rpm. To assess the number of trichomonads, 20 μl of the test suspension was transferred to a Bürkerse counting chamber.

3.5 Product characteristics
Organic acids from Pigeon Vitality. Product I tested February 2013 contains maizennameal , Product II tested May 2013 contained Calsium- and Magnesium citrates as filler.
4 RESULTS
4.1 Assessment of Trichomonas gallinae infection of the crop
4.1.1 Semi-quantitative and quantitative scoring
Results of the quantitative (presented as the number of trichomonads per 100 μl) and semi- quantitative scoring of the number of trichomonads present in crop swabs collected from 5 naturally infected pigeons following oral administration of an organic acid compound, after 3 hours and every 12 hours, are presented in Table 1a,b (with maizenna fillers) and 2a,b (with Ca:Mg citrates as fillers. Each pigeon was sampled prior to the first administration (A), 3 hours after the first administration (B), 12 hours after the administration (C) .
No regurgitation of the administrated capsule was observed with the product I (with maizennameal), while one pigeon regurgitated after capsule no. 2 with product II (with Mg:Ca- citrates)
4.1.2 Quantitative analysis
Table 1a Quantitative analysis product I (with maizennameal as filler) 99.9% reduction in average after 12 hours
Treatment group
Control group
Pigeon 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 Time
point
A
108400 145000 194200 94800 62800 600 0 800 0 0 200 0 400 0 0
57000 60200 131400 140200 85000
B C
35000 42000 22000 28000
84600 71600 113800 36200 132400 45400
Control group
Table 1b Qualitative analysis product I (with maizennameal as filler)
Treatment group
Pigeon 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 Time
point
A
B C
+++ +++ +++ ++ ++ + -*‐ + -*‐ -*‐ + -*‐ + -*‐ -*‐
++ ++ +++ +++ +++ ++ ++ +++ ++ +++ ++ ++ ++ +++ ++
Table 2a Quantitative analysis product 2 (with Ca:Mg citrates as filler), 99.2% reduction in average after 12 hours
Treatment group
Control group
Pigeon 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 Time
point
A
B C
168000 142000 108000 88000
104000 62800 114000 142000 138000 94000
Control group
137800 66200 98200 86600 132800 1000 0 0 0 7800 200 0 0 400 3800
104000 55400 178000 144400 84400
Table 2b Qualitative analysis product II (with Ca:Mg citrates as filler)
Treatment group
Pigeon 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 Time
point
A +++ ++ +++ ++ +++
B + -*‐ -*‐ -*‐ ++ C + -*‐ -*‐ + ++
5 CONCLUSION (relevant part)
+++ ++ +++ +++ ++ +++ +++ +++ ++ +++ +++ ++ +++ +++ ++
........based on these findings, the administration of a single capsule of the organic acid
compound results in notable reduction of the number of trichomonads. For this reason, multiple
dosing of the compound may be presumed redundant and a single administration may be a
valuable alternative for the currently available treatments against Trichomonas infections in racing pigeons.
In conclusion, the use of this organic acid compound can be a valuable alternative for currently available treat
ADDITIONAL COMMENTS from PIGEON VITALITY
One capsule significntly reduces the amount of trichomonas , > 99% in average no matter what the filler is. Thus is may be a valuable alternative to using anti-canker medicine 1-2 days in the racing season, as there will be no developement of medicine resistance.
The TriColi STOP on the market at present is the one with Calsium and Magnesium citrates, as most racing pigeons do get too little intake of calsium and magnesium during the racing season.
Field experience so far: The administration of TriColi STOP should be give on the day of return from race, in the evening after the pigeons are fed, to reduce the frequncy of mild vomiting.


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## Lu's loft (Apr 16, 2013)

Should I supplement his food with anything to help put weight back on him? He's eating well now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He will probably put it back on if he is eating well. Adding a small amount of safflower seeds, or chopped unsalted peanuts will put weight on, but probably don't need to.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

If he is eating ok then its good.multi vitamins given on alternative days, once a day just thrice is gonna help.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Marketing 101


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