# Sick pigeon. Pls help!



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Hello everybody,

about 5 days ago I found a pigeon in the street, in a state of shock (he had convulsions and he could not keep his balance). I took it to the vet, who said I should give him a lethal injection. Which I could not do, so I decided to try and save him, no matter what. 

Luckily, he is much better now, he can even walk, but not too much. I have no idea about how to feed birds. And this is my major problem. He has something like a necrosed tissue in his mouth, on the back part of his tongue. And two tumors on his beak. So he constantly refuses food and water. Therefore, I have to feed him by force (which is rather complicated, but I manage). I have a syringe with which I give him water, approx. 2-3 mililiters per day. Do you think that is enough? I also give him glucose (about 1 mililiter) and some vitamins to give him energy and strength. Since yesterday, I have started to feed him with grapes and bread (rolled in small balls), which I push down on his throat. When he seizes the opportunity, he spits it out and then I have to force him again to eat. This is a bit frustrating as I do not want to stress him too much.

I also went to 2 vets, but they could not give me a final, adequate treatment. So, apart from what I told you, I also give him 1/10 of a mililiter of antibiotic, as per their indications. Do you have any other suggestions about what I could do to make him recover faster? It breaks my heart when I see him so tired (or sick) and unable to fly or, sometimes, keep his balance.

Thank you in advance for any suggestion!


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Would you be able to take a photo of the problems with his beak? Growths on the outside of the beak could indicated pigeon pox, which is caused by a virus and for which there is no medication. If there is a yellow/white substance inside his beak, this could be from the same cause, or possibly from canker (trichamoniasis) which can be treated. Sometimes the two problems can occur together.

If you supply him with a small pot of water, will he drink? You could gently push his beak into it (but well below his nostrils, so he doesn't breath in water) to see if he will drink. Otherwise he will need more than 2 - 3 ml per day, the needs of a pigeon of small size being maybe 20 ml. whilst in European climate a well, adult pigeon could drink far more.

Can you get frozen peas and corn, since these can be thawed out in hot water and then offered warm to the bird by feeding one at a time. I'd give between 35 - 50 pieces twice a day, provided the crop is emptying - as can be judged by the droppings and by feel. These are good for a temporary food to provide some nutrition and bulk, and are easy to get into the bird and easy to digest. Ob viously, seeds and grain would be normal food, but you say he is not interested.

Try wrapping him in a towel to feed him so he cannot struggle to much.

If you can post a picture, we can also judge how old he may be.

John


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

That is what I would say, except the only thing is...you don't wanna feed peas and corn if the growths/tissue are in the throat and esophegal tract....because morsels that large could dislodge them.

As John said, a pic would be very helpful. Am wondering if he/she has both pox and canker.

What is the name of the antibiotic ? Does the pigeon take liquid from a syringe OK ? if so, can you get some baby food (smashed peas, or smashed rice, something like this) and try warming it a bit (not hot, just lukewarm) and feeding it with the syringe ?

If this seems to work, try 3-4 full cc's (ml's) per feeding and do 4-5 feedings a day. If it goes easily, increase the amount to 7-9 cc's feeding.

With food and proper medication, he/she should recover if the illnesses aren't too far advanced.


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Thank you so much for your very helpful advice. It seems I replied to John's post via my personal e-mail so I guess the photos did not get uploaded.

I was saying in that e-mail that ''The margins of his tongue are yellow and he also has something yellow in the posterior part of his tongue. He does not drink, nor eat by himself. He just walks around and inspects my room , which is a good sign, I think...''

I will give him more water then, about 10 ml/day, which means two syringes. Better said, I will force him to drink (and eat the grapes - I will stick to the grapes as they are more liquid and easier to swallow). And also the glucose and the vitamins. As for the antibiotic, I don't know how it is called, unfortunately. I asked for the oral ones as I did not like him to be injected in the chest (I heard that chest injections can damage the muscles that support the pigeon's wings...).

Please, if you can identify his disease, I would very much appreciate your suggestions as to what I have to administer him. Oh, and his beak is blue because I give him methylene blue once a day...

Thanks again!


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Iuliana, the photos show your bird has something called pigeon pox, kind of like chicken pox in humans, humans can not catch this infection, but other birds may, so if you have any other birds, please be very careful with hygiene procedures and whether you have any birds or not, wash you hands well after any handle of this little one, or anything he come in contact with, soiled newspaper, dishes, toweling and so on. Since this is a virus there is no direct treatment to cure it, you can paint a bit on iodine on the blisters to help dry them up, but be very careful if you do this, not to get any in his mouth or eye, make sure the brush is not real wet to prevent it from dripping, you only need a fine coat on top. The pox will pass in a number of weeks time and he will have immunity for life from catching it again.

The yellow growth to the back of the mouth most likely is something call canker (not cancer) it is a protozoa infection and you will need a drug called Metronidazole to treat it. Also, birds with pox sometimes develop secondary bacterial infections, so it might be wise to put this little guy on a course of a drug called Baytril (also called Enrofloxacin and used for animal treatment, metronidazole is used for both humans and animals) if you are getting the drugs from a place other than a vet, you will need to get the human equivalent to Baytril, so either get Ciprofloxacin or Norfloxacin. If a pharmacist is making up the drug for you get him to make the suspension for any of the drugs mentioned at a concentration of 50mg/mL (50 milligrams of drug in each 1mL). If you only can get pills, this is not a problem. Just make sure you know the strength, come back and well tell you how to use what you got. You will also need a few 1cc syringes, the kind without a needle attached as well.


Good luck,

Karyn


----------



## jaysonpena (Jul 3, 2010)

Give him some ground black pepper that are mixed with water to a tube feed this will help the bird warm up from the inside .start feeding infant milk to a tube feed for a week this will help the bird recover .


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Do not feed any kind of milk to a pigeon, their systems do not handle it. Any kind of formula, be it babies or bird rearing mix, should be mixed only with water

Forget the pepper.


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Hi Iuliana, the photos show your bird has something called pigeon pox, kind of like chicken pox in humans, humans can not catch this infection, but other birds may, so if you have any other birds, please be very careful with hygiene procedures and whether you have any birds or not, wash you hands well after any handle of this little one, or anything he come in contact with, soiled newspaper, dishes, toweling and so on. Since this is a virus there is no direct treatment to cure it, you can paint a bit on iodine on the blisters to help dry them up, but be very careful if you do this, not to get any in his mouth or eye, make sure the brush is not real wet to prevent it from dripping, you only need a fine coat on top. The pox will pass in a number of weeks time and he will have immunity for life from catching it again.
> 
> The yellow growth to the back of the mouth most likely is something call canker (not cancer) it is a protozoa infection and you will need a drug called Metronidazole to treat it. Also, birds with pox sometimes develop secondary bacterial infections, so it might be wise to put this little guy on a course of a drug called Baytril (also called Enrofloxacin and used for animal treatment, metronidazole is used for both humans and animals) if you are getting the drugs from a place other than a vet, you will need to get the human equivalent to Baytril, so either get Ciprofloxacin or Norfloxacin. If a pharmacist is making up the drug for you get him to make the suspension for any of the drugs mentioned at a concentration of 50mg/mL (50 milligrams of drug in each 1mL). If you only can get pills, this is not a problem. Just make sure you know the strength, come back and well tell you how to use what you got. You will also need a few 1cc syringes, the kind without a needle attached as well.
> 
> ...



Dear Karyn,

the info you provided was of great help! I did as you said and went to the pharmacy and I bought Metronidazol 250 mg, 30 pills and Ciprocin containing ciprofloxacine 500 mg, 10 pills, as well as iodine. I have already applied the iodine on the inflamations. Please be so kind so as to tell me how I should mix now the metronidazol and the ciprofloxacine and how often should I administer the solution. Also, for how many days should he take it? I assume that I should give up antibiotics since I shall start giving him this new medicine.

Thank you in advance for your reply!
Iuliana


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Iuliana, did you get the 1cc syringe as well? For the Metronidazole, we will keep it simple, I want you to get a sharp knife/razor and cut one of the Metronidazole pills into 4 pieces. I then want you to wrap your little guy in a small towel, so his head is poking out one end, place him on you lap and "pop" 1 piece (1/4 pill) into his mouth, to the back and have him swallow it. Here is a link to a video showing how to do this (in the video it shows feeding, but the same method is used for giving medicine):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Let me know about the syringes and also if you have any syrup around your house, could be corn syrup or pancake syrup or even maple syrup.

Karyn


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Hi Iuliana, did you get the 1cc syringe as well? For the Metronidazole, we will keep it simple, I want you to get a sharp knife/razor and cut one of the Metronidazole pills into 4 pieces. I then want you to wrap your little guy in a small towel, so his head is poking out one end, place him on you lap and "pop" 1 piece (1/4 pill) into his mouth, to the back and have him swallow it. Here is a link to a video showing how to do this (in the video it shows feeding, but the same method is used for giving medicine):
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow
> 
> ...


I have several types of syringes - of 20 mililiters, 5 mililiters and 3 mililiters. I also gave him 1/4 Metronidazole. I checked the link you sent me, but unfortunately he cannot swallow, so I have to push the food down his throat. It's full of yellow tissues and this is why he cannot swallow by himself. But I will manage, I use a blunt toothpick and, with some effort, he finally swallows.
As for the syrup, if I cannot find some around here, I will improvise something sweet (like sugar dissolved in water). So, please tell me how to prepare the oral solution.

Thanks!


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Need a 1cc syringe because the amount of med will be so small, it can't can't be accurately given with large syringes. can you pick one up?

We can also put the Metronidazole in a liquid suspension form to make it easier to give as well, it will help topically as well on lesions in the mouth/throat given as a liquid. We don't want syrup for sweet we want syrup to thicken the suspension up, can you pick up some corn syrup, or any thick syrup used to cook or on breakfast food.

Karyn


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Need a 1cc syringe because the amount of med will be so small, it can't can't be accurately given with large syringes. can you pick one up?
> 
> We can also put the Metronidazole in a liquid suspension form to make it easier to give as well, it will help topically as well on lesions in the mouth/throat given as a liquid. We don't want syrup for sweet we want syrup to thicken the suspension up, can you pick up some corn syrup, or any thick syrup used to cook or on breakfast food.
> 
> Karyn


I will get a 1cc syringe today, as well as some syrup. What should I do next?


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

OK good.

Iuliana, I want you to get a shot-glass or an espresso cup, and then first starting with the Metronidazole, place two of the 250mg pills (500mg) in the shot-glass/cup, and crush them up into as fine a powder as you can using the end of a kitchen utensil that you think will work well to crush with, I use the end of a small cooking whisk. Next, take your 3cc syringe and fill it to the 3cc line with warm water and slowly stir in a few drops at a time into the crushed Metronidazole until it forms a paste and use your tool again to further crush this paste for a minute, Metronidazole does not like to mix with water and this will help make the particles even finer. Then take the remainder of the water in the 3cc syringe and hold the tool a little into the shot-glass and rinse the end so the water all falls into the cup to make sure we get all the med, you will now have 500mg of Metronidazole and 3cc of water in the shot-glass/cup. 

Now, I need you to get an empty small bottle, a prescription pill bottle will work well and then get your 5cc syringe and fill it to the 5cc mark, add this to the bottle, then use your 3cc syringe and fill to the 2cc mark and add this to the bottle, you should have 7cc of water in the bottle, make a mark on the outside to this line, throw the water out and then fill to this line with the syrup (we do this because syrup thicker syrups are hard to draw into a syringe), add the 3cc Water/Metronidazole to this water and you should now have 10mL of a 5% Metronidazole suspension (50mg/mL). Repeat these steps for one pill of the Ciprofloxacin (500mg), you won't need to do the paste step, as Cipro with dissolve in water readily, you should end up with a 5% suspension of Cipro, (50mg/mL).

I am going to use a weight of 300 grams for this bird, if you can weigh the bird we can fine tune the amounts of medicine later. With the 1cc syringe I want to to give this bird .50cc (to the fifth line on a 1cc syringe, this is 25mg) of the Metronidazole, twice a day for the next week and with the Cipro I want you to give this bird .12cc (this is just pat the fisrt line on a 1cc syrine, this is 6mg) once day for a week and we'll reassess then.

Make sure you shake, or stir, the suspension(s) well before drawing up the med to give him. Just gently open his mouth and place one drop at a time in the front of his mouth and allow him to tongue it down. Refrigerate the meds after use until next time.

FYI, 1cc = 1mL, same thing.

If you have any questions, please ask,

Karyn


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Hi Karin,

I am preparing the solutions right now. I have found the syrup. Also, I have just weighed him and he's only 100 g  And he's lost most of his energy.

I must urgently find a tube to feed him, he cannot live with 2-3 grapes a day (this is the only solid food I could give him). I will go buy some sunflower seeds now. The key is to feed him, but now I realize that really there are not many possibilites in this respect on the market. However, maybe I can find somewhere a tube to insert it down his throat...

Wish me good luck...


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Iuliana, if the weight you stated is correct, we will need to adjust his med amounts down, because of this bird's low weight, the amounts I gave are too high. Please give him now for the Metronidazole .20cc/mL (10mg), this is to the second line on the on the 1cc syringe, twice a day and for the Cipro .05cc/mL (2.5mg), once a day,this half way between 0 and the first line on a 1cc syringe. Please double check his weight and make sure the scale you are using is accurate.

Please read this thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/urgent-blood-in-poop-3-weeks-old-pigeon-46304.html

This thread is about a caregiver, like yourself, that had a canker bird that had to learn to tube feed. You might want to read the whole thread, but starting around post #61 is the information on learning this.

Also, please make up some sugar water, 1 teaspoon of sugar to 60mL (2oz) water and give him 5mL of this for energy every 2 hours, you have use the 1cc syringe to slowly give it to the side of his beak, each 5mL will have 1.5 calories. Also to tube feed you will need some Kaytee baby bird hand-feeding formula (or any other brand of formula that is meant for feeding baby birds), you will need to go to a pet store to find this. While you are looking for some Kaytee, please get some human baby infant formula, get the soy based kind or at least get the lactose free kind, we can keep him going with this until you get Kaytee. At this weight he is critical, please do everything now with no loss of time. 

If you get the Kaytee, and I am not around, please follow the directions on the package, but after first mixing it up, cover it and let sit for 15-20 minutes, it will thicken up some more during this time, then adjust with a little more water until it flows like a melted milkshake for his first feedings. The Kaytee needs to be slightly warm when feeding, but tempurature is not as crucial for him, as it would be for a baby bird. If you get the infant formula, again follow the instructions on the package, when mixed, this will be quite thin, but have everything he needs for nutritian in it, again slightly warm when feeding this as well.

Do not feed too much to start, give 10mL per feeding and do this every 3-4 hours apart, but after the first feeding feel his crop area and make sure the food has passed to his lower digertive area, (the crop is located at the bottom of his neck and top of his chest area), later in the day he should start to produce some wet, brownish looking droppings, this will be a good sign.

Karyn


----------



## Iuliana (Sep 24, 2010)

Hi Karyn,

he cannot stand any longer. I started, since yesterday, with the new medicine. Also, since 1 week, I have been constantly giving him glucose and a vitamin complex, to which I added today some olive oil to make it even fatter. So I don't think he needs water and sugar since I have glucose.

I will go and buy some baby formula and feed him by tube. But if he does not stand any more, do you think there are any chances for recovery?


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Iuliana said:


> Hi Karyn,
> 
> he cannot stand any longer. I started, since yesterday, with the new medicine. Also, since 1 week, I have been constantly giving him glucose and a vitamin complex, to which I added today some olive oil to make it even fatter. So I don't think he needs water and sugar since I have glucose.
> 
> I will go and buy some baby formula and feed him by tube. But if he does not stand any more, do you think there are any chances for recovery?


Iuliana, where there is life, there is always hope, please do start feeding him, but on consideration, I want you to reduce the amount you feed from 10mL to 5mL, every 3-4 hours, for the first 2 days, then if things are OK on the 3rd day, go up to 7mL for 2 days, every 3-4 hours, then on the 5th day if things are OK, go to 10mL. When they are very weak like this too much food, too soon, can actually not be good for them, we have to slowly bring him back up. Please get him set up in a donut like this to make him comfortable:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=467722&postcount=6

Also, once on the baby formula, you will not have to worry then about giving him water any more until he goes on the Kaytee. Please also keep him warm, about 85-90 degrees, as when they are weak/sick like this they have a hard time generating body heat, so we have to help them keep warm.

Good luck,

Karyn


----------

