# Heating/cooling?



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

A thought occurred to me yesterday, as the temp rose to 97f outside and 104f in my house (central air unit took a poop)....
I plan on putting the loft to the side of the back garage under a large maple to help keep it cool. It will be a double redrose starter loft (4' x 16', door in front center between the aviaries) with a tall aviary to each side. 
I'm wondering if I shouldn't add a ceiling fan- like a bathroom exaust fan- to the roof for cooling?
Also, It gets sometimes below zero here in the winter. Do you think I should heat the loft? The rooms in our house each have their own electric heat/thermostat. We are taking out one of the bathrooms to enlarge the kitchen, so I would have an extra I could use....Or is just good insulation a better idea?
LOL- I did want to keep this simple, but I do want them to be comfy 
Your thoughts on this are much appreciated!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You can keep the coop near the tree, but you should consider any sap that might run from the tree onto the coop if it is directly under the tree, also if you plan to release your birds, they need to know where their coop is from a distance. You should have plenty of air flow under the eaves, and allow them access to an open(netted with hardware cloth) area where they can bathe and such.

In regards to heat, I would be careful in the winter, better to have it well insulated. Pigeons can handle cold, but they can't handle drafts of air and rain inside the coop. They do need good air flow,ventialtion, and shouldn't be near any exhaust.

Others will be along to help with their resolutions to the cold temps in winter.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you, Treesa...Points I had not thought about, and probably better more in the open then. I do plan on releasing, and they would have quite an open area to the left of the garage.
Yes- I plan on starting with a proven breeding pair, which will have to be kept as prisoners. I do want them to have lots of room, so the tall aviary/flying area is important to me. The front aviaries pictured on the loft plans will still be there, but they just look like takeoff/trapping areas to me.
As far as heating/cooling...Well, I tend to have a habit of spoiling my animals. It sounds like if I were to go overboard I would learn the true meaning of "spoiled to death". I really have to watch myself at times 
I'll keep an eye out for other replies too- Thank you so much!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi Mari,
I spoil my birds too. My birds are in my garage. I had a fan installed to stuck the hot air out. It's set to come on when the temperature reaches 75 degrees. It can get pretty hot here especially in July and August. 

I use a heater in the winter to keep the temperature above freezing.
Keep spoiling them.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

michbird said:


> Thank you, Treesa...Points I had not thought about, and probably better more in the open then. I do plan on releasing, and they would have quite an open area to the left of the garage.
> Yes- I plan on starting with a proven breeding pair, which will have to be kept as prisoners. I do want them to have lots of room, so the tall aviary/flying area is important to me. The front aviaries pictured on the loft plans will still be there, but they just look like takeoff/trapping areas to me.
> As far as heating/cooling...Well, I tend to have a habit of spoiling my animals. It sounds like if I were to go overboard I would learn the true meaning of "spoiled to death". I really have to watch myself at times
> I'll keep an eye out for other replies too- Thank you so much!


JMO...........these birds do not need heat and they do not need cooling. Good air circulation is essential, especially in the hot, humid weather. Good feed during the winter and they will be fine. Spoiling your birds is fine, but there's a difference in spoiling a pet and spoiling a loft full of birds. The birds that you get when you initiallly get started will not be in your loft forever. You'll bring in new birds, move out old birds. The ones you may give/sell/ or even loose along the way, will only suffer when they have to go to someone who doesn't heat their loft or if they have to spend a few nights out in the cold. Most pigeon fanciers, with a loft, do not heat their loft. It's just not a necessity.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> ... The birds that you get when you initiallly get started will not be in your loft forever. You'll bring in new birds, move out old birds. The ones you may give/sell/ or even loose along the way, will only suffer when they have to go to someone who doesn't heat their loft or if they have to spend a few nights out in the cold. Most pigeon fanciers, with a loft, do not heat their loft. It's just not a necessity.


Wow- Another good point! I certainly would not want to have them suffer at new homes. Thank you for your input, Lovebirds


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Not to start a debate, although that could be lively.LOL I do have 30 pigeons in my garage , a small flock to say the least. When it's bitter cold and the wind chill drops into the teens, I turn the heater on to keep the temp just above freezing. It's by no means warm by my personal standards but I think they appreciate.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

LOL- Charis, Now why do I always end up doing this?  
Just kidding. Actually, I don't see reason to not install the heatermajiggie just in case- seein since I already have it. I don't have to keep it toasty warm, but if the depletion of the ozone causes the ice age before we expect it, I can flip it on and attempt to keep the little darlings from becoming icicles  
I guess the question isn't whether or not to install something like this, but how to use it. So far, alot of good pros and cons have been mentioned. Keeping these points in mind will help me decide how I can best maintain their needs


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Well actually, my coop did have a small non teflon hearter inside last Winter in addition to the plastic on the front door and front of the coop.It took the bite out of cold.

I think they appreciated the extra warmth especially at night.The coop is pointed south, so it naturally warmed up nicely after the sun rose.

I must confess, when we had 6 pigeons my wife "made me" bring them inside when we had a freeze blast come through. We had them in the laundry room which has windows all around.

As far as summer, well now that we have a flight pen next to their coop, I can shower them and they just love it.

I do have a fan inside pointed up to help with air circulation but it will be used only on extra hot heat index warning days. (the fan is pigeon-proofed for safety by the way)


----------



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Victor said:


> I do have a fan inside pointed up to help with air circulation but it will be used only on extra hot heat index warning days. (the fan is pigeon-proofed for safety by the way)


Hi Victor,
I am wondering how you pigeon-proofed the fan in your loft. I am planning to move my birds out to an enclosed porch on the back of my house very soon. 

It does get hot out there in the summer and a fan would be just the ticket to keep the air circulating during those heatwaves. But how to keep it safe?

btw- michbird - Hope you don't mind my tagging along on this thread- very good considerations and advice!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi Victor,
> I am wondering how you pigeon-proofed the fan in your loft. I am planning to move my birds out to an enclosed porch on the back of my house very soon.
> 
> It does get hot out there in the summer and a fan would be just the ticket to keep the air circulating during those heatwaves. But how to keep it safe?
> ...


You could put a cage around the fan. That's what I did.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Those bathroom exhaust fans have covers


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

For what it's worth, in THE FLYING VET'S PIGEON HEALTH & MANAGEMENT -by Dr. Colin Walker, he states that the optimum temperature for pigeons is between 65 and 75 degrees F. His focus is racing homers.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Thanks, Terri  Is that the temp they fly best in, or the temp they should live in?


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

michbird said:


> I do want them to have lots of room, so the tall aviary/flying area is important to me. The front aviaries pictured on the loft plans will still be there, but they just look like takeoff/trapping areas to me.


If you plan on releasing the birds then you don't need too much flying area inside the coop, however you don't have to consider the aviary to be tall, as they need length. My aviary is just high enough that we (& most people) can walk comfortably inside, it doesn't need to be too high, but do consider some length. The coop however is higher as well as long.


----------



## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

There are wild pigeons that live in Moscow for goodness sake. They don't need any type of artificial heating and all depending on who you listen to, you may be doing more harm than good. IMO just make the loft so that you can close it up and keep them out of the drafts in the winter time. The exhaust fans are a good idea for the summertime in my opinion.


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi Victor,
> I am wondering how you pigeon-proofed the fan in your loft. I am planning to move my birds out to an enclosed porch on the back of my house very soon.
> 
> It does get hot out there in the summer and a fan would be just the ticket to keep the air circulating during those heat waves. But how to keep it safe?
> ...


Hi Amoonswirl,
I have read how some folks use a small cage. I tried it last early fall, but had to take it out for a small bird we rescued, so now I put 1/4 inch hardware cloth as a surround, and just plug/unplug it when needed. It has not gotten really that hot yet, so I have not used it. My pigeons are enjoying their flight pen, under a big shade tree , but it at least is there if I need it.With the heater, I have a small stainless steel crate (similar to an old milk crate)that I use as a cover.I put the heater inside it, with the crate turned upside down. The elements are far enough that the metal does not get hot.Sometimes it's fun to be creative, as long as the birds safety is in mind.



roxtar said:


> There are wild pigeons that live in Moscow for goodness sake. They don't need any type of artificial heating and all depending on who you listen to, you may be doing more harm than good. IMO just make the loft so that you can close it up and keep them out of the drafts in the winter time. The exhaust fans are a good idea for the summertime in my opinion.



Hi Roxtar, I know sometimes I overdue it ,but my 8 pigeons are family pets, and I do spoil them, but that would be the case with all my pets.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Right on, Victor. You rock.


----------



## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Victor said:


> Hi Amoonswirl,
> I have read how some folks use a small cage. I tried it last early fall, but had to take it out for a small bird we rescued, so now I put 1/4 inch hardware cloth as a surround, and just plug/unplug it when needed. It has not gotten really that hot yet, so I have not used it. My pigeons are enjoying their flight pen, under a big shade tree , but it at least is there if I need it.With the heater, I have a small stainless steel crate (similar to an old milk crate)that I use as a cover.I put the heater inside it, with the crate turned upside down. The elements are far enough that the metal does not get hot.Sometimes it's fun to be creative, as long as the birds safety is in mind.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not ridiculing anyone for what they do for their birds, I'm sure there are a lot of people that have forgotten more than I'll ever know about pigeons.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you, all, for your replies 
OK, so what I have learned here is this: There is a variety of opinions on this subject. Pigeons do well in a variety of climates, hot or cold, but drafts and poor air circulation need to be avoided. Whatever you do, the pigeons should be protected from anything you install. I have been so indecisive on this, but think I have finally reached my decision.
I'm going to install the exhaust fan, since it is not a strong fan and does not create a draft worth mentioning. I don't have to use it, though I beleive it could at least come in handy when the pigeons are out flying and I am in there cleaning their loft.
I'm not going to opt to install the heater, though I am going to insulate the poo out of the loft  I have decided I would like my pigeons to acclimate as closely as possible to natural climate. If I were to release my birds - well- this is Michigan, and unpredictable. I would sure feel badly if my pigies were used to a constant 70 degrees and ran into extremes on their way home, etc. I beleive this would be a cruel thing. If I were raising fancies, I might think differently on the subject and opt to install the heater (This may even be where some of the differences in opinion come from too).
I now have my plans all drawn up. I have a fishing date with my brother tomorrow, then we are going to hit the building supply on the way home with our list. I,m hoping to start going on this, and will post pics as I go along


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Sounds like a fun project Mari! The best will be seeing the completed structure.

We built our coop last August, and am still trying to "perfect" it.

Make sure it is bigger than the number of pigeons you have. Mine needs to be expanded in length now as I have two extra birds.Treesa made a good point.

It is important that the front of your pigeon structure where the window areas are, face the south or south east so they can get first sunlight on those cold wintry mornings. It really helps.


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*tall aviary/flying area*



michbird said:


> I plan on starting with a proven breeding pair, which will have to be kept as prisoners. I do want them to have lots of room, so the tall aviary/flying area is important to me. The front aviaries pictured on the loft plans will still be there, but they just look like takeoff/trapping areas to me.


 Hi Michbird, You have recieved a lot of good advice on heating/cooling so I will not address that what I wish to point out is the tall aviary area.You must keep in mind that if you try to catch your bird that a tall aviary makes it differcult to catch the bird as the bird can fly over your head and out of your reach.I am 6foot tall and I have an aviary that is 7 1/2 feet tall I now know that it should have been 6 1/2 to 7 feet tall belive me the 1/2 a foot makes it just that much harder to catch the birds. GEORGE


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Really good point, George. I have the same problem and it's even more difficult for me as I am not 6' tall.


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Thank you, George  It wouldn't be that tall- I guess tall to me is just taller than the ones on the front of the loft LOL. I'm 5'4" and it would probably just be tall enough for me to stand up in there, since it will not be peaked like the loft itself is  
LOL Victor- I will probably keep "perfecting" as well...kinda like rearranging furniture, nothing ever seems to be "just right"


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Michbird glad to see that you have it under control. .GEORGE


----------



## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Like many have said . . .pigeons live under all types of climates . . .no need for heating as long as they're well fed, make sure the H2O doesn't freeze up.


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

michbird said:


> Thanks, Terri  Is that the temp they fly best in, or the temp they should live in?


According to Dr. Walker, that is the optimum living conditions for pigeons.


----------



## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Heating/Cooling?*

I like the idea of heating/cooling in the loft, I wanted to point out that pigeons survive from extreme heat as long they have clean water all the time, extreme cold as long as the floor inside are dry. Nothing much to say to that but clean, dry and well taking care of are the key to make them healthy, plenty of air vents (with or with out fan) is important, I think different climate inside and outside the loft will change their body temperature as well, they might get sniffles or colds...But everyone can do what they want for their lovable birds...Good Luck Fellas


----------

