# Injured feral- full crop and green droppings



## fliptruck (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi, can anyone give advice?

5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....

I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to pigeon Talk

Thank you for rescuing this very needy bird.

You should try a drop of olive oil or two, it will help get the food moving thru the crop. Just syringe it down with a tiny bit if water.

Here is our link for first steps to take for stabilizing an injured/sick bird:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


Here are some resources for getting help:

http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactA.htm

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Maybe the swelling with the purplish color is a hematoma (leak that creates a reservoir of blood mixed with other liquid components), which would be pretty natural in a case like this. Measure it. Can you post a picture?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

fliptruck said:


> Hi, can anyone give advice?
> 
> 5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....
> 
> I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?


Hi Fliptruck,

Welcome to PT and thanks for taking this pigeon in. You might try the ratio
of 2 TBLS of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) to a gallon of water in addition
to the olive oil that Treesa suggested. Set this out in a deep non-tippable bowl as the only source of drinking water. You might want to see about getting a mix of wild bird seed that has Doves listed on the side of the bag and use this instead of the pellet once the distention has resolved. Also, if you could tell us your general whereabouts this could prove helpful if we have a member in your area.

In the meantime, here's a link to Crop Medicating for you to look at to help 
with giving the bird Olive Oil:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

fliptruck said:


> Hi, can anyone give advice?
> 
> 5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....
> 
> I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?




Hi fliptruck...



Wow...


If it was me, I would withhold food for the next four days or so...and wait till his Crop has emptied before considering to offer food again...

And, when it seems alright to offer food again, I would offer Seeds...and likely small whole nice ones like say a Parakeet or Finch or Canary mix...

This way, his by-then just BARELY functioning digestive system, will not have to dealing with large diameter Seeds...but can likely deal with small diameter ones...


I'd have him on the ACV-Water right now, to the tune of three Tablespoons to the Gallon...and keep him on it for another eight or ten days.

I'd keep him warm, and have soft rolled or folded cloths on his cage for him to lean on if he wanted or to ake him as comfortable as possible anyway so he stays upright and as best he can...maybe drape the cage on three sides even, and a white towell on the bottom to better see the poops...


When they get whacked like that, sometimes their whole digestive system shuts down, and whatever food was in their Crop, spoils there and starts fermenting...so, the ACV-Water will help a great deal with that, and with eliminating yeasts...

And, as fp mentions, a little pure, new Bottle only, never from an 'old' bottle one has on the shelf...a little Olive Oil down his gullet, would be fine, if you are sure on how to do it and not get any in his windpipe...

The emerald Green is almost certainly bile comeing through, and meanwhile the Crop and digestive processes are shut down, maybe injured/bruised as well, maybe swollen in some areas, or constricted for now with blood even...and will take a few days or more to start slowly, tentatively moving again...

This is pretty usual for them when whacked hard like that...


If he is torn there near his Tail, maybe see about getting him sutured up...


I usually use 'Neosporin' for keeping injured areas moist and safe from germs...


Figure a few months of convelesence is most likely for this fellow...and for now, the next week or so of course is especially crucial for him...so...


A few days of fasting, ACV-Water, warmth, soft things to lean on, and see how that Crop emptys...and if all goes well, you should start seeing poops fairly soon, tomorrow or the next day, maybe you will get four or five small grey or ughy tan ones...and they will not look normal till he is done with these delays of digestion...


Good for you to be looking after him...!


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Tuesday night a friend calls me, she has a sick bird, if I could bird-sit for a few days cause she had to leave the next day. The bird had a full crop for a day already and only some tiny and green with yellow droppings. I gave the ACV and oil and water, nothing happened, the crop seemed to become puffier. I forgot to mention that the bird was already on Flagyl, Baytril and I added Nystatin. That was not a good idea cause the meds won't get absorbed when the crop isn't functioning.
The bird being emaciated needed to eat and I couldn't keep it starved much longer.
By Wednesday afternoon I took her to the vet, she looked pretty bad by then already.
He did three crop washes and got all the gunk out, that stuff was days old and smelled like it.
He ran a fecal, liver, kidney function and a blood test. All came back normal except the white blood cells, which were way up high (51.000). 
He gave me injectable antibiotics and Reglan and Emeraid, a critical care formula of which you give only a few cc's (for this bird 7cc's) three times a day, enough to just keep her alive.
Before leaving the clinic he gave her subcutaneous 12cc's of fluid.
The crop is doing somewhat better, but is still slow to empty, but overall she is somewhat better.
Well, today she started showing some vague symptoms of PMV. She is walking backwards and stretches her neck backwards when stressed, plus she is trembling. 
Crop stasis can be a symprom of PMV and sometimes can be the only symptom, then nothing will help other than supportive care.
Also the crop needs to empty eventually, one way or the other. After a couple of days, the stagnant food can become toxic and that is lethal to the bird. Not to mention that she will starve and become dehydrated.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti, 



Yea...

By-products of fermenting Crop contents can make Acetones, Wood-Alcohols and other toxic and intoxicating chemicals, and these can make them rather 'drunk' and neuologically impaired pro-tem...


Poor things...


Getting whacked by a Car, of course can bruise the Crop and everything else too, which can cause a stasis of the whole digestive system stem to stern, or at least in the forst half or two-thirds, and then the fermentaion and spoilage starts in, along with Candida sometimes, fermenting gas, and defacto 'starvation' of sorts anyway, for want of anything getting through...


We have to play it by ear of course...

Trying to decide or deduce what is up.


If a robust Bird recently innured in blunt trauma, or from other matters effecting the Crop, or having Crop stasis, they can coast just fine a few days on no 'new' food...so long as we make sure they are hydrated decently.

A 'thin' Bird, however, I would tend to give them thin nutrituous 'soups' via the Lavage or Catheter, soon as I dare to...mostly hi-nutrient Fruit ( Black Cherry, Goji Berry, Elderberry ) concentrates or home made 'purrees' and 'Nutrical' and some KT blended together with the ACV-Water, and this can be very good then as it can rather wind it's liquidy way on through...so long as their condition and Crop otherwise seems able to handle it.

Too, a lot depends on if they are interested to eat, once we decide to let them...and the Car wacked sometimes are, sometimes are not.

I have seen badly Car wacked ones happy to eat, and if their Crop and poops are alright I let them...and some of these are in truely bad shape all tolled, broken Wings, Legs, ribs most likely too, really whalloped...yet, a few hours later, half-a-day later, a day later, happy to peck their Seeds and so on, propped up in cloths or in slings and so on to half way stand...so, every one is different...


Canker can clog or inflame and constrict the lower Crop passage to their Stomach...to where there is a Crop and digestive stasis.

That is what I think is going on with my new one here...and it can also involve Candida or Yeasts and fermenting or at least nasty spoiled food in their Crop.

I myself have no way to get this sort of stuff out of there, so I let it pass...and the ACV-Water ( along with a Canker regimen ) along with a few days of fasting till the Crop does clear, has shown itself to work well.


Car wacked Birds of course can have internal bleeding, serious internal injury and contusion, and all the swellings or stasis and so on these can involve.

If they had a full or semi full Crop when wacked, this adds to the complications then, since one dare not feed a Static Crop Pigeon, and even thin Lavaged 'Soups' are risky till one waits a while...

And sometimes this is the regimen then, even after the Crop clears, if they do not wish to eat, and one knows by then they need nourishment...

So, I usually let them have small Seeds like a Canary or Finch mix, if they are interested, once ready...and if they are not interested, then..."The Tube" comes to visit...


Golly...it is truely amazing they survive initially from some of these traumas, for us to even get them at all, to ponder and impliment their care and convelesence...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Phil,

I think four days is way tooooo long .. that's time enough for a bird to starve. I do understand the rationale, but I do think that's way too long of a time.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Good Luck, Reti*

I'm so sorry this one is in such bad shape, Reti. Best of luck with it .. you already have all the pertinent info from the vet.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Phil,
> 
> I think four days is way tooooo long .. that's time enough for a bird to starve. I do understand the rationale, but I do think that's way too long of a time.
> 
> Terry



Hi Terry, 


Well, what I mean is, whatever time their system needs to clear and to start working again...otherwise, anything one puts 'in' is not going to go anywhere anyway.

As things start to move through again, maybe on day two...it can be a couple more days before what had been in their Crop, gets through to being pooped out. And then one can figure they can handle eating again, and small Seeds might be easiest for still somewhat constricted passages...

I do not mean to 'starve' them..!

But to let things clear out, and not to feed untill we know that things are moving again...moveing through.

Three days is probably more like it...and or it all depends...

Three days is no problem for an otherwise decent weight Pigeon...especially if they had a fairly full static Crop to start with...it can take that long for the Candida or other secondary problems to clear up enough ( with treatment, ) for their Crop to be emptying at all anyway...and it would be no good to be adding food on top of it when it is not emptying...so, at least that way, whatever was in their static Crop to start with, they are processing 'that' ( with the ACV-Water to ammend, ) as one otherwise lets them fast.



And, it all depends...

Whatever the Crop and poops 'say' is what I go by on these things...but after three or by four days, I will tube feed 'thin' nutritious 'soups' figuring these will find their way through and digest and so on, even if the Crop is still not empty of it's 'original' static contents...

So, I do not let them 'starve'...!

And if thin to begin with I vex and start 'soups' sooner...


Sorry it was not more clear there...


Love!



Best wishes...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## fliptruck (Apr 20, 2007)

*More about the crop? pigeon*

Okay, pidgeon is still ok, here's an update:

I came up with a theory based on the fact he was still quite active etc, and plenty of fluids were going through his system. While I initially thought it was a crop problem, the i7ncrease rather than decrease of swell after 36 hours on water suggested something else was happenning. I did another inspection of the 'purpling' of his neck, and decided that the purpling was infact owing to a large dark empty space rather than bruising etc. I did some reading and theorised he may have ruptured his air sack during the crash. Cause I could see more harm and letting him swell than in attempting to deflate him, I sterilised his neck and put a slight cut in a pinch of skin. This worked a treat - yes, he was full of air just under his skin. He looked much, much more comfortable after this, and could move his head normally etc.

Here's the problem - 12 hours later he is swelling up again. I am thinking maybe his rupture hasn't healed yet, and he could just keep reinflating until it heals. Maybe I should gently wrap his neck to stop it puffing up again? 

Any ideas? Thanks for all the advice, by the way.


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## surya-s (Apr 14, 2007)

fliptruck said:


> Hi, can anyone give advice?
> 
> 5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....
> 
> I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?


Hello Fliptruck,
Well, I am rather inexperienced and not of much help, but I think you are doing a wonderful deed by saving the poor pigeon. You'll get a lot of help in this forum. Please do keep us updated on the progress.
Best of luck for all your efforts to save the pigeon.
Thanks, 
Surya


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, that happens occasionally. It seems to happen rarely enough around here (the forum) that it's sometimes forgotten by the time another one comes up. Anyhow, some folks let the air out by way of a hypodermic needle--just sterilize it before you stick it in. I'm not sure that a wrap around the neck is a good idea. These things do usually heal in time.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Fliptruck, could you please let us know your general whereabouts? There may
be professional medical help that is available in your area at no cost to you and
there's no harm in having a look at that possibility. It might work better than
you doing the procedures yourself if someone trained is available locally. Thanks.

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Fliptruck, thank you so much for taking this pigeon in and caring for it.

We don't usually see air sac problems like you describe in pigeons. Our experience has been mostly with song birds, usually babies or fledglings, with an inflated air sac. The "air bubbles" can be small or large and we usually don't try to deflate the smaller ones since they usually go away on their own. However, for the larger bubbles, we do as Pidgey described and use a sterilized needle to slightly prick the bubble and let the air come out. We have often had to repeat this 2 - 3 times until the sac heals.

You need to be in a very good light when pricking the bubble. That way, you will be able to insert the needle in an area AWAY from blood vessels.

Best of luck with this little one.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

One more time, Fliptruck, where is your general location? Could be someone 
trained to do this is available.

fp


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## fliptruck (Apr 20, 2007)

*Location of injured pidge.*

I'm in brisbane, QLD, Australia. The only available avian vet near visits once a a week on tues, and the other isn't open weekends, (It's Sat here.), but any advice is great.

Pidge is now nicknamed 'gump', as in forest, for having survived a one-in-a-million crash wound to the butt. Most other's I've picked up from car crashes have been in FAR worse shape, which has clotted and healing beautifully, no redness or weeping at all. What I'm now chasing info on is air sack ruptures, how long they take to heal, how one can locate them etc. I've read the other posts on it and can't find too much b.g. info.

Thanks again for all the help.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> I'm so sorry this one is in such bad shape, Reti. Best of luck with it .. you already have all the pertinent info from the vet.
> 
> Terry


Thank you Terry.
So far the situation is under control, I just posted this to mention that slow crop is a symptom of PMV and we should think about it when we have one crop stais/slow crop emptying).
And I also wanted to mention that po antibiotic therapy will not help in crop stasis.

Reti


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Reti said:


> Thank you Terry.
> So far the situation is under control, I just posted this to mention that slow crop is a symptom of PMV and we should think about it when we have one crop stais/slow crop emptying).
> And I also wanted to mention that po antibiotic therapy will not help in crop stasis.
> 
> Reti


Reti, You're saying that the antibiotic in such situation need to be an injectable. Right?
That is what I would use until the crop started emptying and then I would switch to oral antibotic treatment. In my experience it most often is 36 -48 hours before I can make the switch.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Charis said:


> Reti, You're saying that the antibiotic in such situation need to be an injectable. Right?
> That is what I would use until the crop started emptying and then I would switch to oral antibotic treatment. In my experience it most often is 36 -48 hours before I can make the switch.



That's right. You can also continue to give the injectable antibiotic it's full course.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

fliptruck said:


> I'm in brisbane, QLD, Australia. The only available avian vet near visits once a a week on tues, and the other isn't open weekends, (It's Sat here.), but any advice is great.
> 
> Pidge is now nicknamed 'gump', as in forest, for having survived a one-in-a-million crash wound to the butt. Most other's I've picked up from car crashes have been in FAR worse shape, which has clotted and healing beautifully, no redness or weeping at all. What I'm now chasing info on is air sack ruptures, how long they take to heal, how one can locate them etc. I've read the other posts on it and can't find too much b.g. info.
> 
> Thanks again for all the help.




Hi fliptruck,



Very good then...good going...!


Figure a week thereabouts for the Air Sac to ammend itself...

I would not wrap his neck...


The occasions of Air Sac ruptures I have had here, I just let them be, even though I am sure it was uncomfortable for the Bird. These they went down and healed over some days or a week.


Since the Air which is being let out of the Air Sac will still be let out even if one pierce the Skin where a distal bubble happens to form...if one wrap the 'bubble', the Air will still be leaking anyway, and will find some other areas to press or make a bubble in.

If he is more comfortable now for having the bubble pierced, then nothing wrong with that of course...!


And I suppose realy, it lets the Air find 'that' opening to exit through, instead of pressing anywhere...so...for the time being, till the slit heals, it is likely acting like a valve...



So, this leads us then to the question of whether there in fact is anything in his Crop?

And or if he should be eating or should be getting fed then...

Can you gently feel his Crop, and distinguish it from the low muscles which are on the sides of his Keel ( Keel runs vertically and is their breat bone in effect, ) to tell?

Can you post any images?


Static Crops usually feel sodden, heavy, slushy, can seem 'low' and can have gas in them...at least once they have been static a while...early phases of course feel normal...and yours of course was hit, so this was an 'early' one, if at all...


What have the poops been like since your initial mention? - what are they like now? And how many all tolled?

This will tell the tale well enough on the matter of whether his system is working...that is, if there was anything in his Crop to process, or if he ate much of anything since you got him...


Getting whacked of course can cause their whole digestive system to slow way down or cease for a while...how soon it starts up again and how fully will vary with each situation.


And is he interested in pecking Seeds?

Is he drinking allright on his own? ( tepid Water is sometimes more acceptable to an injured adult, sometimes they prefer cool Water...)


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## fliptruck (Apr 20, 2007)

*Air sack and butt injury pigeon update.*

Hi again.

Firstly, thanks phil, that was very useful (and comforting) info. The pigeon looks to be improving. He's pecking at seed crumb granules, and is eating quite well. I can't even find the tiny incision now, which I'll take as a sign it's healing well, and his neck has seemed to settle, with no swelling in the original area now. His crop is quite empty now, so I'm thinking of putting him on solid feed if all goes well. The way his bum feathers were wrenched out has left him with some delightful knobbles on his tailbone, and I'm a little wary of releasing him in case anything gets infected, but at the moment it's a nice healthy pink. The fluroscent emerald is slowly fading out of his poo, but he still poos quite a lot, (more than my lorrikeet in quarantine, which I didn't think was possible), however he's quite large so this could be normal. (?)

I will post photos tomorrow, if someone wants to take a look and confirm he's healing ok I'd be overjoyed, or failing that, give more advice. Any suggestions on how soon to re-release in this kinda circumstance would also be great.

Once again guys, thanks soooo much for all the info etc, it's been a world of help.

Ellana & Gump-the-much-improved-crash-pigeon.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Wonderful news, Ellana!

Thanks so much for letting us know how Gump is doing! Sounds like all is going well and he should be well on the road to recovery.

We will look forward to seeing your pictures!

HEALING HUGS AND SCRITCHES...

    

Shi & Mr. Squeaks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

fliptruck said:


> Hi again.
> 
> Firstly, thanks phil, that was very useful (and comforting) info. The pigeon looks to be improving. He's pecking at seed crumb granules, and is eating quite well. I can't even find the tiny incision now, which I'll take as a sign it's healing well, and his neck has seemed to settle, with no swelling in the original area now. His crop is quite empty now, so I'm thinking of putting him on solid feed if all goes well. The way his bum feathers were wrenched out has left him with some delightful knobbles on his tailbone, and I'm a little wary of releasing him in case anything gets infected, but at the moment it's a nice healthy pink. The fluroscent emerald is slowly fading out of his poo, but he still poos quite a lot, (more than my lorrikeet in quarantine, which I didn't think was possible), however he's quite large so this could be normal. (?)
> 
> ...



Hi Fliptruck,


Has he been on the ACV-Water then?

And if so, I would think by now he may well be fit to have real, whole, Seeds, if possibly small ones for prudence sake.

Canary or Finch or Parakeet Seed would be fine...

These crumbles or what will not have the nutition or fibre or other amenitys which wholesome Seeds will...


Poops, ideally, should be on the order of thirty to fourty or so per 24 hours, and the size of or a little larger than reglular Raisens, or half the bulk of the last joint of one's little finger thereabouts.


No release for a month...not sooner anyway, if I have followed this correctly...you will want to see him having healed all round form the tail area injury, with decent Tail Feathers if possible, make sure no Worm issues, make sure his weight is right...and make sure he can in fact fly well, which some indoor situation might have to do for...seeing if he can fly straight 'up' from the floor to some high indoor roost...with no appearance of it being labored.


I am sure he is getting hungry now, as well as feeling better...!


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## fliptruck (Apr 20, 2007)

*Gumps Tail*

Finally, a photo. Here is gump with his beautiffully sized neck and bald butt. As you can see, he's recovering beautifully. Thanks Guys!








- Scrapes and swelling settled.







- normal neck!







- feathers regrowing.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Well, its nice to see pics of gump, he/she is a youngster and I'm sure quite greatful that you found him/her when you did.

Thank you for caring for this bird.


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