# Eye discharge and swollen eye cere



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Two weeks ago, we moved to another state and while transporting my birds, one of my older cock birds was pecked in the eyes to where they were swollen shut. I noticed when putting them into their new house and promptly separated him from the others and brought him inside. It took a couple of days for his eyes to open fully. I noticed they were watery and bought some Dr. Pigeon eye drops and put one drop in each eye. The watery-ness stopped and I kept him in for a couple of more days to make sure he was doing 100% before putting him back with the other birds. That was about a week ago. I have been checking on him every day and he has been fine, until today ? I noticed his eye cere (he has always had tons of skin around his eyes) was swollen and there was a yellowish discharge coming from one of his eyes. (I?m assuming he was pecked sometime between yesterday and when I went to feed and water today). 

Anyway, I removed him again and have made him comfortable in the house once more. I have never had issues with eyes before so am new to this. I have not given him a second round of eyedrops because I wasn?t sure it was appropriate to do it again, and not sure what the discharge could mean. Since we just moved to a new area (Philadelphia), I am not sure if there are bird vets around. 

Does anybody have any suggestions on what the discharge could be? Leon can see just fine and is perky, eating, drinking, and cooing and hooting as normal, aside from the eye discharge and the skin swollen around his eye. Any help and suggestions on how to help him out would be amazing and very helpful.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a picture? It may not be from being pecked.


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Hi Jay3! I didn't even think to post a picture earlier. 

I just went up there and the discharge is gone, but I noticed something that looks like a sore on the cere. He has always had pretty massive ceres around his eyes, but they are very swollen right now and tender. Here's a couple of photos. I made a red circle and arrow around the spot that looks like a sore. The skin around his eyes is still pretty red and his eyes still seem to be a little watery, but not like they were this morning.

The first photo is his right eye and the second two are his left which is more swollen than the right.




























Jay3 said:


> Can you post a picture? It may not be from being pecked.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could what you perceive as a sore, be from the drainage, or maybe he has been scratching and scratched it?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could be many different things. Even Chlamydia can cause it. Here are some links on the same topic that may help.


http://www.roller-pigeon.com/board/board_topic/859782/387792.htm

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f87/adult-pigeon-having-watery-eyes-43177.html

https://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-onei.html


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Thanks for the links! I'll look into them. I hope it isn't anything serious and just one eye cold or a sore that will go away... I always get freaked out that I'm going to contract something when a bird isn't feeling well.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I hope he is fine soon. Please let us know.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How is your bird now? What did you treat him with?


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Hi Jay3, thanks for following up! 

I kept Leon indoors for about a week and the swelling went down. During that time I noticed some very minor signs of canker in his throat so I gave him some Aviotrich... after giving him that the swelling went completely away (not sure if it was related or not). I listened to his breathing and cooing there was no gurgling or wheezing, so after making sure he could see and his eyes weren't swollen anymore I put him back outside.

About a day later his eyes were completely swollen again and I noticed that younger birds were pecking at him (Leon is about nine or ten years old), so I have had him inside the house since (I guess it's been a few weeks now). I gave him some Dr. Pigeon one eye cold droplets when I brought him back in for the second time and the swelling and watery eyes went away. I'm thinking that it could be a bullying situation. I was doing some research in the threads and saw something about pulling the bully out for about a month and it will help with other birds being attacked. I haven't done this yet since I'm afraid that putting Leon back in this freezing bomb cyclone weather wouldn't help his situation if he gets pecked again. I was planning to wait until it warmed up a little later this week before putting him back in and pulling whoever the culprit(s) are and keeping them separate to let things settle down a bit. I do have a small panel heater in the inside of the coop that keeps it about 10 degrees warmer than the outside temperature, but since he's been in the nice warmth of the house, I didn't want to shock him.

I'm open to suggestions, if you think I'm assessing the situation properly or not; I'm more than happy to hear your opinion or anybody else's. I've been debating taking him to the vet, but have to wait until I go back to work and get my first paycheck here in the next couple of weeks. He hasn't been showing any symptoms of sickness and all the other birds are doing fine, so I'm not sure if that would be necessary.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he isn't showing symptoms then the vet probably isn't necessary. I think you did the right things, but I would treat with the canker med for 7 to 10 days, just to be sure you knocked it down enough. Never just a few days, as it will come back with more resistance to the drug. I have the same stuff going on with my birds right now. A couple of younger ones bullying the older ones. I keep going out and locking them in their boxes. I did remove one for a couple of months during the late part of summer but it didn't change his attitude any. I would so like to be rid of him. 
I think you did a good job, and would agree to keep him in till it warms up a bit. And remove the younger bullies for a while. It does often help. If the eye comes back, do a 7 to 10 day treatment. If it still comes back after that, he may need Baytril or Doxy. Please update us as it goes along. I would be interested to know how he does, and if removing the bullies for a while gives them an attitude adjustment. Hope he stays well now.


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Interesting! I was following the instructions on the bottle for the canker meds -- it said to give one pill a day for two days. When you say if the eye comes back, am I correct in that you mean I treat with the Dr. Pigeon drops for 7 to 10 days?

I will definitely keep you posted! I think it's supposed to be a high in the 40s this week so hopefully I'll be able to get Leon out there and situated again. I don't like keeping him separate from the others. It's so interesting to me that before we moved cross country the birds were completely fine, but since being here it seems their entire pecking order has changed.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That is not what I am saying. I don't know how much Metro is in each tablet. But you treat canker for 7 to 10 days. An adult bird would get 50 mg once daily for 7 to 10 days. A squab would get 30 mg once daily for 7 to 10 days. Sometimes it takes even longer. Don't go by what it says on the bottle. Canker doesn't clear that quickly. 
Does it say how many mg are in each tablet?


----------



## Sydneylofts1* (Dec 11, 2017)

Birdbum 
As a pigeon ages the wattle and cere will grow larger and can make it difficult to see directly in front of them, there fore the other birds who fight as normal are at an advantage, i think there is very little wrong with this bird only age


----------



## Sydneylofts1* (Dec 11, 2017)

Birdbum
to give you an example your avatar ( Blue Bar cock ) i would think may be 5-7 years old? see his wattle is enlarging


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes the cere will grow larger, but I think he would know the difference between that and new swelling on his birds cere. The eye is more swollen and irritated.


----------



## Sydneylofts1* (Dec 11, 2017)

I can imagine that birdbum can tell the difference, however the reality is that pigeons fight and usually do the most damage to each other (as minor as that is ) to cere, wattle and soft part of the beak area. If birdbum is worried about this still i would suggest : 1/2 a teaspoon of salt diluted in 1 1/2 pints of water also add enough potassium permanganate ( condys crystal ) to slightly turn the water pink . bath the eye twice a day for 2 days and i think problem solved. Hope this helps


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

This makes sense. There is absolutely nothing with Leon. I think moving halfway across the country and having him in a completely new space screwed up the pecking order and now he is at the bottom. Leon is between 7 and 9 years old (I'd have to check his band, but I think he hatched in 2009). He's definitely an older gentleman and I feel so bad for him. Poor Leon.

I have another bird around the same age, but his cere and wattle are not nearly as big. He's doing really well in the new space.



Sydneylofts1* said:


> Birdbum
> As a pigeon ages the wattle and cere will grow larger and can make it difficult to see directly in front of them, there fore the other birds who fight as normal are at an advantage, i think there is very little wrong with this bird only age


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Hi guys, here's an update.

I put Leon out today on the pigeon balcony while the others were inside since it was much warmer than it has been finally. I put out some bath water and slowly let the other birds out. I kept an eye on everyone all day. Leon seemed fine most of the time, but kept getting picked on by more than one bird. The other birds will peck at his head, catch his cere in their mouths and shake his head violently. He's able to get out of it fairly quickly and fight back, but I can imagine how stressful and painful it is. He went inside the pigeon house before the sun went down, so I checked on him and he seemed O.K. When I put the rest of the birds up, I checked on him again and noticed the front of his eye cere had been pecked in the two minutes it took to put everyone inside. I instantly brought him back inside. It isn't a bad hurt, it looks more of like a scrape if you skinned your knee. I cleaned him up and put him back in the crate he's been in. He's sleeping upstairs now.

I feel so bad for him and not sure what next step to take. I don't have the space in my house to have a big bird cage to keep him in, and I feel really bad keeping him inside away from being able to stretch his wings and hang out with other birds. I'm open to suggestions. Leon is a big sweetie and I want him to be happy.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is it just a couple of birds picking on him? If he were not there they would probably pick on another bird. Maybe they need to be confined for a while.
Are the birds that are picking on him paired or single?
Are there enough boxes for all the males you have? Are they after his box?


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

It seemed to be both males and females picking on him depending on the area of the loft he was in. I thought some of the ladies in there before were males because of the way they act, but they're definitely ladies. All of my birds are paired up; there aren't any singles that I know of (I have 24 birds total including Leon). I haven't noticed any of the birds picking on each other as badly as they do Leon. They tend to keep to their own favorite spots and don't bother anyone else.

I'm working on making some new additions to the loft this coming week/weekend to accommodate him better. I just installed some new wall feeders this past weekend and will be updating boxes and adding some more perches. Fingers crossed these renovations will help. I will report back soon. Leon is safe inside with me.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Enough boxes for each male, and more perches then you have birds helps to cut down on the fighting. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Hello! I just wanted to post an update on Leon. I found a large dog cage to house him in for the past few months to keep him inside. He's doing really great. The past few months I have been closing off the balcony of the outside coop separate from the others so he can get some sunshine, stretch, and baths to clean himself. After doing some research on the forums, I found some threads on different ways to incorporate new birds into a loft. Even though Leon isn't new, he hasn't been incorporated since we moved, so I am giving it a shot to see if it will work.

I have a white bird cage that I put on the floor of the coop and put Leon in it with plenty of food and water last night. The other birds have been looking at him and dancing around him, but aren't able to attack him. I'm hoping that with him being in there for at least a week or until necessary, they'll get used to him and consider him part of the flock. I'll definitely keep an eye on him when I open the cage door to make sure he isn't overwhelmed. I think too, since he isn't accustomed to the loft and was vulnerable before, that I'll give him a few hours over the weekend by himself to explore the loft and get used to it.
I'm thinking the incorporation is akin to putting two betta fish in a tank, but having a clear divider wall so they can look but not touch until they're used to each other. (My brother did this as a class science experiment many years ago in school and after a week or two the bettas didn't fight each other when the divider was removed). I cannot believe I never thought of this tactic before. My fingers are crossed. I really hope this works.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Gee, I feel bad for Leon. Don't see why so many would be picking on him suddenly. I would lock up the attackers for a while, outside of the oft somewhere, and then reintroduce _them_ as new birds. Hope this works for you, and thanks for the update.


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

Hello! I wanted to post another update about Leon. The technique I tried of re-introducing him to the loft worked! He is now with the other birds and thriving. Thanks for all the support!


----------

