# Sweetie and I need Moral Support and Prayer



## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

It started out pretty well, being able to stay at the church for a while. The pastor said I could bring Sweetie inside the church at night. We did this for two weeks. Then the cleaning ladies that cleaned the church saw a seed on the step going upstairs up to the loft. They asked the pastor I guess, what kind of bird it was and the pastor told them. They in turn called the Department of Natural Resources and they told the pastor that all wild birds were against the
law to keep unless you were a licensed Rehabber. I looked and did a research and all I know is I have a list of what Michigan lists as wild birds and all I saw was that the Mourning Dove was listed as a wild bird, but the Rock Dove is listed as a Domestic Pigeon and commercial. Well, it was
dipping down at night to temperatures down in the lower to
mid 20's. There was another box, so we sneaked Sweetie upstairs for another two weeks. The pastor found out yesterday and he talked to my husband and said that under
no currcumtances was we to bring the pigeon inside the church, that it had a disease and he didn't care if it reached
40 degrees below zero, we were not to bring that bird inside the church. He then asked my husband where the bird was hid, my husband told him. When my husband told me, I then was worried about Sweetie's safety and couldn't leave her outside in her box today. Right now she is safe, warm, dry, and feeling quite secure at this moment.
I had to place her in my purse last night, because I knew because of her leg, that it would get frostbite and I didn't want that to happen. The purse was nice and comfortable, Sweetie I think likes it. She is not making a fuss like she did at the other library. She is now asleep at this moment. I have the zipper opened enough so that she can breath and get some light. If she wants to see me she can. Sweetie also enjoys the zipper pulls inside my purse. I feel
that I can't trust the safety of the box. I lined the bottom of the box with paper toweling and tried to put her food bowl in the purse but the bowl tipped so now she can forge
for her food. I don't really mind if she has an accident in my purse, I will just clean it out each day. I just don't feel safe anymore leaving her outside in her box at this time. Sweetie is eating very well, and when nobody is at the church, I let her get her excercise. She is being really good
about this. All I could do was cry last night while holding her. It really hurts to think that a pastor of all people would act in this manner. It is not right at all and it is not Christian. I am keeping Sweetie and I am not giving her up to anyone. Me, Victor and Sweetie are very close. We love her and willing to stand up for her. Please keep us in your prayers.

Victoria, Victor, & Sweetie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I'm sorry Victoria that you are in such a situation. I'm also sorry that I don't remember the circumstances of how you ended up staying at a church. You're a very good person for taking such good care of Sweetie and hiding her. A pigeon in a purse....Hmmm, I wonder if that will catch on with hollywood's eccentric...LOL. Sorry, but I could just see Liz Taylor doing this  Seriously, I hope this situation gets fixed soon for you, Victor and sweetie. Seems like people just don't care much about pigeons, pastor or otherwise. Hang in there!


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

Thank you,

What happened was that my husband Victor and his father had a disagreement and we had to leave his father's place. Couldn't stay there anymore. So the pastor was worried about the cold and
didn't want us to stay out in the cold so he mentioned it to the church board and they said if you can trust them then it is ok. So that is how we started staying at the church.

I made sure she had enough food to last the winter and most of spring and part of Summer. I bought a 10 pound bag of Wild bird
seed in October and she still has about two pounds left on that bag, and durring the middle part of December, I bought another 10 pound bag of wild bird seed. Sweetie is set on food for a while.
I give her fresh water everyday. A friend gave us some bottled Spring water and I have been giving her that. I think she likes that better than the water I would get at the drinking fountain.

Thank you,

Victoria, Victor, & Sweetie


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Victoria, I am so sorry you have to go through all this. Unfortunately people just don't care about pigeons, no matter what their level of education is.

I hope things will get better for you Victor and Sweety really soon.
Hang in there.
And give Sweety a kiss from me too.

Reti


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## PapaPigeon (Dec 22, 2004)

*Bad*

That's terrible, I will be thinking and praying for you too. Poor Sweetie.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I wish the best for the three of you! God will provide and work things out for you because you have a great heart!  Sweetie is a lucky birdie to have you!


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

My heart hurts for you, Victor and Sweetie.
Victoria, I agree with Pete. 
God sees the love you and your husband have for Sweetie ~ one of His creatures. I believe with all my heart that He will help you with this situation.
Since the pastor said he will not allow Sweetie inside the church because she has a disease, would it help if you or your husband tried to clear up his misconceptions.
He could get online and read the facts for himself.
Depending on your relationship with the pastor, maybe you could ask him if he TRULY BELIEVES that God would not want Sweetie to have temporary shelter there. Especially, if it was 40 degrees below zero!
If this guy believes that, he chose the wrong vocation.
No offense intended ~ to you, or anyone else.
Victoria, all of you are in my thoughts and prayers. 
When you can, please let us know how everything is going.
God keep you in His care.

Phyll


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Your pastor's response and the cleaning ladies' intolerance are exactly why I left organized Christian religion years ago. I met more ignorance, hypocrisy, and intolerance on one Sunday than I did on many, many days out in "the world". At least he did offer you shelter. 

This link is to a lovely piece by the Peace and Justice Support Network (Mennonite Church). It basically states that God values all beings of his creation, right down to the lowly sparrow, even though man devalues most of them (unless they offer a direct benefit like a cow and her milk). It's a good Christian argument in support of environmental protections and humane treatment of animals. 

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/leoeye.html

It's a long piece and you may not have time to read it. But, the most useful part to you may be the Bible verses which form the foundation of the article. Oftentimes, the best way to "enlighten" a Christian is to quote the
own Bible.

Matthew 10:29 (NIV)- Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not oneir of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 

Moral: God cares about all creatures.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-19*(NIV)- ..."As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath (or Spirit); man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.

Moral: Humanity's fate is intertwined with that of the animal kingdom just as your fate is intertwined with Sweetie.

Psalm 84:3-4 (NIV)- Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young- A PLACE NEAR YOUR ALTER, O Lord Almighty, my King and my God. Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you. 

Moral: God has reserved a place for Sweetie right near the alter of your church!

My thoughts are with you...


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## Yong (Oct 15, 2003)

Victoria,

Your pastor may need to re read the book of Genesis. Also remind him that pigeons are doves...the symbol of peace. I found this snipit for you...


Pigeons have religious significance. Common city pigeons are actually European Rock Doves. They are the biblical dove of love and peace. They helped honor the birth of Christ. They are the same birds as the pigeon that Noah released, which returned with the olive branch to signify the end of the Great Flood. Nearly all religions revere pigeons as holy birds.

Pigeons are mans oldest domesticated bird. New evidence shows that pigeons have been domesticated for more than twelve millennia.

Pigeons save lives. To this day, pigeons deliver lifesaving medications and provide valuable messenger service in remote areas, as they have for thousands of years. 


I wish I lived in your area so that I could help you with Sweetie until you were back in a place where you could care for her without fear. I will be thinking of you all. Yong


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

*So Far Everything is Ok.*

Hi,

Alice, one of the ladies from the church came over and took us to the laundromat to do our clothes. She asked where Sweetie was, in fact the words she used was Where is the bird, and I told her she was outside. She told me that there was some sort of law that stated that if a bird need some medical attention that it was suppose to be taken to the Humane Society for treatment. 

I told her I have been researching the law about the type of bird that I had and couldn't find any law saying such a thing. Well, I didn't lie about her being outside. She was outside in her car, in my purse being still as a mouse. She was a good girl.  

Victoria Lutes & Sweetie


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*Thanks for the Update*

Hi Victoria,
I do hope things are going OK for all of you.

_"She was outside in her car, in my purse being still as a mouse. She was a good girl."_
Sweetie's name suits her well. What a little doll baby.  

_"She told me that there was some sort of law that stated that if a bird need some medical attention that it was suppose to be taken to the Humane Society for treatment." _ 
People need to realize, some of us have a 'feral' pigeon who is physically challenged, however, it doesn't necessarily mean they need medical attention. It means they have been rescued, treated & are non-releasable. 

I have three ferals, one is blind & two have irreversible wing damage. For obvious reasons, they cannot be released, but they don't need medical attention.

You are in out thoughts & prayers.

Cindy


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

*Sweetie died peacefully at 1:15AM this morning; Eggbound*

Mr. Human can you look into my eyse to see my soul, kf you look into my eyes to see my soul
Mr. Human can you understand that my eyes and soul are saying my time has come to go, I am so week, my eyes are heavy with a such a mist, I am barely able to see you now, please Mr. Human I want to go, I am so tired, I just want to rest,
Mr. Human please won't you let me go, I want to go to heaven now Mr. Human, please don't let me suffer any longer please just let me go Mr. Human, I have promises of rest, food, and most of all no more pain and suffering so Mr. Human please look into my eyes to see my soul and if it is my time please don't be afraid to let me go.

Thank you Mr. Human for your strength, for the warmth, for caring, and most of all for looking into my eyes to see my soul.

Hi,

I have some bad news today. Sweetie died at 115AM this morning. Yesterday morning she was fine. I let her flap for an hour than I cleaned up the newspapers, and My husband brought up the vacum cleaner
and vacumed, and Me, Victor and Sweetie went to OCC and used the computer yesterday. I gave her water during the day and she did drink it. When we left OCC, we went to Tim Horton's to have something
to drink. That was when I noticed something was wrong with Sweetie. She had laboured breathing. She seemed like she was in a lot of pain.
I tried to see what was causing this pain. I couldn't see anything, but when I tried to touch anywhere around the vent area she moved around. She lifted her tail and was like trying to push, but I couldn't see anything. It felt hard around the vent area. I told Victor that Sweetie wasn't breathing right. We went back to the church around 7:30PM and I took Sweetie out of the purse to see how weak she was, by this time she was very weak couldn't get around. I knew she was dying. She was still trying to drink water for me so I made sure it had some sugar in it because she wasn't eating at this time. I couldn't find anyone willing to take me to the vet so all I could do was make her comfortable and keep her as warm as I could. I petted her and talked to her. I knew she was trying to fight for her life, she was still trying to drink her water. Her breathing got worse. I told her "You don't have to fight anymore. You can go. You
will be going to a far more better place. You will be able to fly and
walk. You will not be in pain anymore. Then I told her I loved her and that I would miss her terribly. I said to her, "You can go now, you don't have to linger, mama will be Ok. I kissed her five or six times, and even though she was in a lot of pain, she was comforted. I
kissed her a few more times crying. Then all of a sudden she lifted her neck straight up, and fluttered and then relaxed, then a few seconds later did the same thing. It was like she flew into the arms of God. There was no more suffering, she was in peace. I guess I was
kind of in shock. I couldn't sleep very well. I went to lay down around 2:30AM and woke up at 5AM. Couldn't sleep after that. The ground was frozen so we couldn't bury her, so we laid her body under a
big pine tree at the church. The church doesn't know she died yet. I
went to another church this morning, who didn't have anything against Sweetie. I needed some uplifting today, so I went to the Church Of The King. I saw my true friends today. They all had excepted Sweetie
for what she was. They knew I loved her very much, and that went went
through a lot while I had her. I was fighting for her rights as an animal. She was a good little girl. I found out this morning how she
really died when my husband tilted the small box we placed her in after she died, I felt some egg white drip on my front part of my wrist. That is how I found out truly that she was a female. She was eggbound.

I would like to thank the person who wrote and dedicated the poem "Look Into My Eyes To See My Soul" 

Thank you Ellen Walley. For it was a comfort to me and it helped me let her go. Don't worry, you will not be getting rid of me very soon.
I am staying with this group and I will be the one praying still for any of those sweet, dear, pigeons that are injured, sick, and unreleasable. I want to become a Rehabber so I can help more with wildlife and pigeons and doves. I am also going to keep an eye for anyone that is finding homes for their pigeons that are unreleasable.
I want to be able to rescue more pigeons and doves. I am also going to still fight for their cause. I have some pictures of Sweetie, but I have no way of scanning them. If someone would allow me to send my pictures to them so that they can scan them for me and send the scanned pictures to my email. I would really appreciate that very much. Please let me know. 

Thank you, and keep me in prayer, for this is very hard for me, I have
been crying off and on all day and night.

Thank you,

Victoria Lutes 
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Victoria,

I am so, so sorry for your loss. You and your husband have gone through so much. I am so sorry about Sweetie, I know she meant so much to you. I am sure she is flying with the angels now and someday will be there to greet you when it is time for you to meet again. As hard as this is to bear, I will bet that from now on, your luck will turn around....because now you will have a guardian angel....Sweetie...looking out for you.

Linda


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*I am so sorry Victoria & Victor*

God Bless you Sweetie.

Cindy


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*May God rest her soul*

I am truly sorry about the loss of your beloved Sweetie.The pain will be there for a long time for you two, but just remember that she is off to a far better place and at peace now. You brought her love,comfort and a safe haven while she was on this earth and what you did was very commendable.Try and remember the good times.She is physically gone but will forever remain in your hearts.God bless.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

*Rest in Peace Sweet Lil Girl*

I'm soooo sorry for your loss! The pain you are feeling must be tremendous, I'm crying myself after reading your story. Sweetie is flying around Heaven with my Max and Ernie having a grand old time! Just be strong because Sweetie would want it that way. God bless you all! Sweetie will be watching over you!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ohhhh Victoria,

I am so very, very sorry our blessed little Sweetie is gone. I wish I could find the words to convey my feelings right now. I know how deeply you and your husband loved Sweetie, and I wish I could somehow make it all better for you.
Pete, you're not alone .. I'm sobbing here right now.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Victoria & Husband,

What a tragic ending to your unfortunate set of circumstances. I am very sorry as well for your loss. I sincerely hope things improve in your current situation and perhaps you will find another dear bird sometime in the future that might help to heal your pain.


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## PapaPigeon (Dec 22, 2004)

*Sad.*

I'm sorry to for your loss.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Sweetie has gone over the Rainbow Bridge, where skies are always clear, food is plentiful, and she is safe. She will wait patiently until it's your turn to cross, then she will fly immediately to your loving arms.
Daryl


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Victoria ~ I am very, very sorry that your beloved Sweetie is gone. When I learned of her loss, I cried & cried. The extraordinary efforts you & your husband went to, in order to protect & care for Sweetie, did not go unnoticed by the Lord. You will be rewarded for caring so lovingly for one of His sweet creatures. Try to take comfort in knowing that Sweetie is now in total peace & happiness. Victoria, you will see Sweetie again. May God bless you & your husband with peace, & give you strength through this sorrowful time. I will continue to remember you in my prayers.
Please take care of yourselves.

Phyll


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Dear Victoria,

This is very sad news.... I'm so sorry for you loss.

I know exactly how you feel as my own beloved pet pigeon Tooty passed away in 2002 and it still hurts thinking about it but in time you will feel better as I did, God willing. Now I can accept it much easier knowing that there is a reason for every cause and when God decides it's time to take the soul of one of his creation then this is from his wisdom.

I hope that you and your husband are well and I know you know that dear sweetie will be going to a better place..

Take care and remember we are here for you ...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

When you lose a member of your family, it can be one of the most painful moments in life. When you don't have a whole lot to begin with, and must seek shelter in a nearby church, this loss is even more painful. 

I hope you are able to find some small measure of comfort, knowing that many of us understand your pain from your loss. Your act of kindness, and the respect you demonstrated for this bird, will not be forgotten. 

God Bless You


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Hello Victoria,
How are you doing? We haven't heard from you in a few days, I'm hoping you don't leave us for good. I know you're going to need lot's of time to heal your heart and soul and the pain will never fully leave but don't forget us because we certainly won't forget you.
Stay strong,
Pete


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

I am feeling a little better. I had a whole lot of food left that I had for Sweetie. It was going to last her until the summer. She was set on food for a while. Now she is gone. I decided to feed the pigeons that I see every day
on the lamp post in the parking lot of the grocery store. Monday, I went to the lamp post where these pigeons were and I started to talk to them. They were not looking at me. Then I placed the food on the pavement by the snow bank, surrounding the lamp post that they were perching on. They didn't go down to eat it right away. So I went to the library. My husband and I had a ride back from the library to the church. On the way back, my husband stopped at the grocery store to get dinner. I was curious if the pigeons ate the food I gave them. Our friend Mike drove his car near the place that I had placed the food, and there was not a trace of food left. That night I dreamed that I saw Sweetie again, but the scenery changed. I dreamed that I was feeding the pigeons. I turned to leave and the pigeons started to flap their wings and follow me. I dreamed they followed me all the way to the community college. Then that was when I woke up. It was to me a great dream and I was sorry to wake up before it was finished. Tuesday, I went to feed the pigeons that were on the same lamp post and I decided to place the food on the snow bank because I thought it was a safer place and they wouldn't get hit by parking cars. I talked with them and some were watching and looking at me this time. This morning when I fed the pigeons most of them were at a different lamp post so I went to that lamp post and fed those pigeons on that lamp post on the snow bank, then I went back inside the store to get some free coffee. Then I saw some on the lamp post where I started to feed the pigeons on Monday and Tuesday, and I decided to feed these pigeons also. When I went out there this time the pigeons were watching me eagerly waiting for me to place their food on the snow bank. They were pacing around on the lamp post. I then turned around to leave. I went back into the store to get my stuff and I turned around and I saw the beautifuleast sight I ever saw. The pigeons were fluttering to the snow bank one by one so gracefully and they all were eating the seed. I asked my husband if we could walk by and see them and we did. The pigeons were enjoying the food I gave them. There were at the time four
pigeons eating. I hope I gave them enough food. Maybe my dream is coming true. Who knows.  

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye


Pete Jasinski said:


> Hello Victoria,
> How are you doing? We haven't heard from you in a few days, I'm hoping you don't leave us for good. I know you're going to need lot's of time to heal your heart and soul and the pain will never fully leave but don't forget us because we certainly won't forget you.
> Stay strong,
> Pete


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you, Victoria.
You made all those sweet starved pigeons happy. I am sure they appreciate it and they will recognize you from now on every time you go there.

Reti


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Good to hear from you Victoria!
They say time heals all wounds, I hope they're right whoever they are. 
In time they will come to recognize you and fly down to greet you when they see you coming. I'm sure they appreciate you sharing Sweeties seed with them, especially this time of the year! Your dream will come true very soon, they'll sense you have a good heart and good intentions and will make you an honorary flock member. Here are my loves coming down to greet me in the morning, they look like little angels descending from heaven.
Bye for now,
Pete


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

*I tried to enlarge this picture for you as a Thank you gift.*

I tried to enlarge it for you, tell me what you think. I hope it turned out. I wanted to thank you so I enlarged your picture so you can have a 8 x 10 or a little larger picture. If this didn't work, I would like to get this to you so you
can have it framed.

Thank you,

Victoria Lutes 
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

It didn't work. Drats. I have this enlargement that I like to send you, but the computer that I am on doesn't have the program that your picture was on. I really wanted to give this to you.

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye.


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Victoria, if you go regularly to feed the pigeons at the same place, they will wait for you and fly behind, and around you, like in your dream. You will find a new happiness in memory of Sweetie 
Suz.


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

When I was feeding those babies again there was one pigeon that was looking down at me. I saw the sunlight hit his feathers. I said oh, you have beautiful colors baby. The male looked at me again and started to strut and coo at me on top of the lamp post. He was looking at me all the time he was doing it. They are beginning to look at me more often. 

They are sure beautiful when they fly. Since I have been feeding them, they seem more energenic. They have more energy. I am so glad, the flock is kind of small. I think some of them have been poisoned by exterminators. I want to try to keep them well fed so that they will be full enough not to eat the food that the exterminators put out. 

This is my hope,

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Hello Victoria,
You should try and move the flock to a more pigeon friendly environment if they're poisoning them in that area, I would hate for you lose your new found friends. From what you're saying your staring to become recognized and hopefully they'll start coming down to greet you soon! 
I'm sorry you couldn't get enlarged the pic sent. Maybe you'll have more luck another time.  
Keep up the good work!
Pete


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

I did try to send the picture I enlarged to your email. Did you get it yet? After trying to upload it here. I tried to send it to you to your email. Did you get it? I hope so. I hope it was clear enough. I hope you liked it


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

It hasn't made it to me yet but I'll keep checking throughout the day. I'll be sure to let you know when it arrives.
Thank you for doing this for me,
Pete


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

*I am gaining ground with the pigeons I have been feeding*

Hi,

This has been a comfort to me when I feed these pigeons at the lamp post in the parking lot of the grocery store. One of the pigeons began to fly behind me I heard some flapping and I slowly turned around, then I said "Oh, hello baby" and the pigeon turned around and was flying back to the lamp post. A few others began to get a little closer also.

I hope I will be able to feed them tomorrow.

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Good to hear from you Victoria!
Your dream is on it's way to coming true! Soon you'll be surrounded by your new feathered friends cooing in delight  Did you mail the pictures of sweetie you want scanned yet? I'm ready, willing and able!


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

My husband and I have to leave the church by the 23 of February. I will send you an address that you can send the pictures back very soon. Please hold on to them for me. Maybe you can place a folder or photo albumn for me on this site. I don't know how to do this, but Sweetie was a special little girl. She helped me get through the rough times. I do believe that the Lord sent Sweetie to me. She really made me feel important. I sure miss her a lot. She would let me hold her for hours at a time. Never forget the look of love in the pigeons eyes as you feed them. They love you. 

Pray for me and my husband. That things will start going into place. We are hoping to be on our way to Grand Rapids by Saturday or Sunday. If you know anything about Michigan weather. It is suppose to be a baulmy 40 degrees today. Pray for us.

Your friend,

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Hi Victoria,
> People need to realize, some of us have a 'feral' pigeon who is physically challenged, however, it doesn't necessarily mean they need medical attention. It means they have been rescued, treated & are non-releasable.
> 
> Yes, this is my gripe with Wildcare in San Rafael, CA. They told me they only euthanized "sick" animals. They didn't say disabled animals, and they did have disabled birds in their resident area. They apparently don't value pigeons nor do they
> ...


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Hello Victoria,
I will be sure to keep Sweeties pictures safe and sound until you let me know where to send them. I'll find a way to post them for you in an online gallery. I'll be sure to pray for you and hope for the best with your move. Sweetie will be watching over you as your guardian pidgie angel. Everyting will work out in the end! Good people always get their just rewards  
Take care and God Bless


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

*Sweeties Pictures*

Here's a link to the new thread with Sweeties pictures. She will be greatly missed by all! 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=61693
Here's the link to her Rose Candle http://www.in-memory-of-pets.com/personalcandle.asp?ID=47750 Click on the twinkling star in the right corner to see the picture.


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## rena paloma (Jan 30, 2005)

*i thought churches were supposed to welcome all...*

saying sweetie has a disease...that is a disgrace.
they do not all have diseases, just like all humans dont have diseases.
i love all pigeons, even the ones i dont know. i love sweetie and both of you, and you are in my prayers. 
the church is supposed to welcome everyyone, and you should tell the pastor that the pidge makes you happy, and that should be acceptable seeing that it must be difficult these days being between homes and such.


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

Hi, Rena:

I am sorry to let you know this, but Sweetie died on January 30, 2005. I thought she only died of being eggbound. But she may have not been able to handle the cold the last 3 days of her life. We started to get rides up to the college to use the computers. What had happened the night that our friend was dropping us off, the pastor was there. The pastor wanted Victor to drop by sometime that week because he wanted to talk to him. It seemed like after that night the rides had stopped. This happened 3 days before Sweetie died. The temperatures dropped down to 0 in the evening of January 27th. We had to walk home that night no ride. We had to walk to the college on January 28th and January 29th. I was scared because Sweetie was still occupying my purse. On January 29th it must have been to much on her. She died on January 30, 2005 at 1:15AM. I didn't know that it may have been the cold that may have been to much for her until yesterday, when the pastor decided to throw our things out at 8AM in the morning. My husband told me that the pastor made a police report on our friend because he thought we should have been walking instead of riding, he thought we deserved to walk. The pastor said I make the decissions around here and I had everything to do with everything that happened thus far. The pastor said give me the key and I will tell you where your things and your mail are. My husband did and the pastor said everything was in the garbage dumpster including the mail we received.  He placed the mail inside of a white garbage bag untied. My husband was very angry, and yelled at the pastor for what he had done. No one in the church knew I even had a bird. The pastor had every attention to do what he did. It cost Sweetie her life. I just found out yesterday. The pastor had made Sweetie, me, and Victor feel like we were nothing but a piece of garbage to him.  

I am giving you and this group the pastor's name and email address so if you feel like doing so you can write him a line to tell him what you think of his tactics if you like.  

Pastor Tom Lange
[email protected]

Thank you,

Victoria Lutes
Sweetie said Goodbye


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Hello Victoria,
When you get settled in email me with your new contact info and I will mail you back Sweeties pictures. If you want I will scan and post more pics, it's up to you and your husband.
Take care and God Bless you and your husband and eternally watch over Sweetie


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*May Sweetie, Rest In Peace*

For what it is worth, I already sent "Pastor" Lange an email. I don't know what it means in terms of hope for the world, when people such as Victoria and pigeons such as Sweetie, are thrown into the garbage pail, by a "Pastor" of a church.

I sure hope, when I die, that I am not going to the same place as this "Pastor", just way to much Love, for me !


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## rena paloma (Jan 30, 2005)

*send my prayers*

i am really upset for you and sweetie, i can not believe that all three of you were taken in than thrown out like that, how inhumane. this i sone of the saddest stories i think i have ever seen on pigeon talk, and anywhere. i sent him, the pastor a long e mail expressing my dissapointment, i was raised in a religious house and never were we ever told to reject anyone, especially after inviting them into our home and safe space. i believe that pigeons are little angels, and may sweetie rest in heaven with all of the other angels, i send my peace.
rena paloma (queenie pigeon...it really is my last name!)pronounced peej-oh


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## dragonfrog (Mar 1, 2005)

*Sweetie*

I am sorry for your loss. Rest assured that Sweetie is happy on the other side now and will see you again someday. Mary


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Apology to Pastor*

In a recent post, I had indicated that I had sent Pastor Tom Lange, an email. I must confess, I was not very kind.

Today, I recieved a very long and detailed email from Pastor Lange. This resulted in a few exchanges of emails, between the two of us.

I found him to be a very good, decent, and honorable man. I am convinced that he went out of his way, to provide food and shelter for some people that were homeless. Most importantly, at least in my mind, he did not return my insults, with insults, but with love and understanding.

There are two sides to this story, isn't there always ?  I am not going into details in order to protect the privacy of all the parties concerned.
But, I am now convinced, that the death of the bird Sweetie, which we all came to love was in no way, shape, or form caused by the actions of this dear pastor. The fact of the matter is, Sweetie would have died a long time before, if it were not for the love and concern given by this pastor, and his church.

Pastor Lange, did ask me to search my heart, and if I felt it was the correct thing to do, to mention it on this site, (I had shown him the site). Most importantly, he was not concerned for his reputation, or his church, but for the readers of this site. His concern was he didn't want anyone to lose their faith in God because of Victoria's story of his lack of compassion.

I am personally ashamed of myself, for jumping to conclusions. And for what was a nasty email to Pastor Lange. In my judgement, he really is a very nice and compassionate person, I look forward to "talking" with him more in the future.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*Thank you Warren*

I must admit, I was a bit shocked & saddened by the allegations made against Pastor Lange, number one, but to have them posted here as they were, was cruel. 
My gut feeling was, there was much more going on & we were only hearing the words of a very disgruntled person.

I'm glad Pastor Lange replied to your email. This definitely gives another perspective of the allegations & indicates to me Pastor Lange is indeed a person to be respected rather than one to be looked down upon.
You decision to share this with us was very noble.  

Cindy


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Warren,

Thank you for letting us know the whole story. Something held me back from writing to the pastor myself, as I had a nagging feeling that there was more to this story.

Please do not be ashamed....I am sure the pastor realizes and understands that you and others wrote to him based on the way the story was presented to us.

Linda


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