# Rescued feral juvenile pigeon, what to feed?



## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

I found this little guy (I think he is a juvenile by the photos I found) yesterday evening protecting from the rain. I followed the indications to keep him warm then try and give him some water (sugar and salt mix). He drinks on his own so I figured he'll be able to eat on his own as well, but so far he hasn't really touched the seeds. Is he supposed to be eating something different? I read somewhere I should try and give him peas? (cooked not raw?)

I noticed he's got pigeon pox  and I don't believe I'll be able to find a specialist here (I'm in Serbia) to give him the proper treatment...

I cleaned his bum which was blocked by poop. His dropings are mostly liquid (mostly green or white).

I know he should eat something soon or he won't make it but I don't know what to give him or how 

Here are a couple of photos I took just now:


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Here is a link on caring/feeding/what to feed young birds: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm
He is probably not weaned yet, and is starving.

Yes, you can force feed frozen peas, that have been defrosted and drained and warmed. Always make sure bird is warm before feeding: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm *


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you for helping the poor little guy, please keep us posted on how he is doing.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

There are good and bad news. When I came back from walking my dog he had got out of his box in the bedroom and went to the kitchen. So while I was reheating the hot water bottle and the peas I put some seeds (4 seasons wild bird mix) on the floor and some water.

And he began to peck at them and eat them!  He seems to make that noise, like a 'cry' and flap his wings like as if I were his mother.

The bad news are that he still has diarrhoea, now it's dark green or white. But nothing solid, even after eating. Could it be he's caught an infection? or something related to the pox?

The other bad news are that I put him on the terrace to see if his mom appeared and some pigeons started attacking him after a while...no signs of mother pigeon.

So I don't know what to think...should I complement the seeds with something else?

And should I try and leave him outside on the terrace to see if his mom comes?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you know about his nest, you can put him close to it and have an eye on him so he isn't attacked by a predator or any other bird to be caused further damage / injuries else you can just hand feed him defrosted frozen peas/corns thawed under hot water to get them to normal temperature. I will post the complete process and a video on how to do it. If he eats on his own you can make pigeon /dove seed mix available for him all the time so he can eat whenever he feels like and this way they learn to eat too if not weaned. 
For making him drink, just dip his beak in a water dish but not over the nostrils and let him sip, in a few attempts he will learn to drink. 
Keep him safe from dog, cats and any other predators. Keeping him open on terrace isn't safe for him because he can't escape from the predators and would be an easy bait for them, so keep him inside safely. 
Runny poop could be because of starvation or stress. Can you pls post a pic of poop as well?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you need to feed peas/corns to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed. Start with about 35 defrosted and warmed peas. Warm, not hot. Do that maybe 3 times a day, but let the crop empty between times.
Remember frozen defrosted peas/corns should be thawed under hot water to make them warm/normal from in and outside both. Never give hot/cold stuff to any bird. 

This video link will help you further to understand the process on how to do it(tho this is not in lap but you can get an idea, how to open his beak. If you put him in lap, it will be more easy(if he flaps much you can wrap him in towel to feed)). In start you will see small seeds being fed and in later part, the pigeon is being fed on peanuts. Peas/corns will be fed in the very same way as peanuts. 

https://youtu.be/9ZqI8idx-SQ

Hope it helps.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Probiotics would be a a great addition at this time, it will replenish the good gut bacteria and get poops solid. Youngsters are already short on gut bacteria and it is depleted quickly upon stress.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Green poops could be starvation poops, because he hasn't been eating for a long time.


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

Ohh, sweety, please tell me you don't have any other pigeons...

That baby has pox.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Much better...*

He's doing better  His poop is looking much better too. It's solid and has changed colour (it goes from light to dark brown with white).

I found a treatment for the pox, so I've been applying that two times a day with a cotton stick around the eyes, beak, and legs/feet. It's a 1:1 solution with iodine and water. He's not very happy about it but he eventually allows me to apply it. Is that enough to cure the pox? I've read in some websites that it can also go away by itself after 3 or 4 weeks? is it contagious to human beings or dogs?

Today I noticed he's got some kind of external parasites (probably internal too?) they were very small and thin-like worms and were moving very quickly, so that's why i probably didn't notice them before. And I've been observing him and I can tell something itches him, could it be lice?

Another thing is that the other pigeons who come to the balcony keep attacking him, they don't seem to care for him or the fact he's still not an adult. And there are no signs of his mother being around...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There really isn't a treatment for pox. It will run its course. Some things may help to dry up the nodules a bit faster is all. Be very careful in applying anything near the eye. You must not get any in his eyes. Those are probably feather lice. A spray for mice and lice for birds will get rid of them. A powder with Permethrin will work also. Don't know what you have there.
Yes, the older pigeons will pick on him. You need to stop that. Keep him caged if you have to, or keep the others out. You shouldn't be letting them near him as pox is very contagious. Keep him inside away from the others, or they can also get sick. Also any mosquitoes or flies that bite him will spread it to others.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Birdie*



Jay3 said:


> There really isn't a treatment for pox. It will run its course. Some things may help to dry up the nodules a bit faster is all. Be very careful in applying anything near the eye. You must not get any in his eyes. Those are probably feather lice. A spray for mice and lice for birds will get rid of them. A powder with Permethrin will work also. Don't know what you have there.
> Yes, the older pigeons will pick on him. You need to stop that. Keep him caged if you have to, or keep the others out. You shouldn't be letting them near him as pox is very contagious. Keep him inside away from the others, or they can also get sick. Also any mosquitoes or flies that bite him will spread it to others.


I bought a product in spray with permethrin in it (1%) and active iodine. I sprayed him under the wings, chest and around the neck. The lice were crawling on my shirt :/

It does seem like the wart-like postules on his beak and around the eyes are drying, but he's also got something growing on his legs where I also apply the iodine mix. Luckily he's only showing signs of external pox.

This is how he looks today:





And this is how his poop looks like:



Why do the other pigeons attack him and where could his parents be? I found him on the ground on a cold rainy day, near my flat, so I thought his parents would be near and would come to take care of him. Is he really on his own now?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Because they can be mean with younger birds who can't defend themselves. I would treat him for canker. The feather loss under the chin is a symptom of it, and when stressed, which he certainly is, is when they come down with canker. Metronidazole works great if you can get it there, at 50 mg once daily for 7 days, then see how it goes. May need longer treatment.


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

AndreaP said:


> I bought a product in spray with permethrin in it (1%) and active iodine. I sprayed him under the wings, chest and around the neck. The lice were crawling on my shirt :/
> 
> It does seem like the wart-like postules on his beak and around the eyes are drying, but he's also got something growing on his legs where I also apply the iodine mix. Luckily he's only showing signs of external pox.
> 
> ...


Yes, he is very much on his own.

Like most colony animals, pigeons are instinctively compelled to drive out the weak and sick to minimize the risk to the rest of the flock. 
It's very likely that the birds you saw attacking him are his parents.

A sick baby is a waste of energy to most wild animals. It's better for them to get rid of that baby and put their efforts into a new clutch that will hopefully be more viable.

His poo looks decent. Not the best, but not terrible either. You're obviously getting food into him.

And his pox seem to be drying. Treat the scabs like toxic waste when they come off and do not under any circumstance let any other bird near him.

Pox is a hardy virus. It aerosols in dust when the scabs fall off, and lives dormant in the scabs themselves. If other birds are around to breathe the dust or eat the scabs, they will wind up with pox on their organs and die horribly.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Birdie*



Jay3 said:


> There really isn't a treatment for pox. It will run its course. Some things may help to dry up the nodules a bit faster is all. Be very careful in applying anything near the eye. You must not get any in his eyes. Those are probably feather lice. A spray for mice and lice for birds will get rid of them. A powder with Permethrin will work also. Don't know what you have there.
> Yes, the older pigeons will pick on him. You need to stop that. Keep him caged if you have to, or keep the others out. You shouldn't be letting them near him as pox is very contagious. Keep him inside away from the others, or they can also get sick. Also any mosquitoes or flies that bite him will spread it to others.


I bought a product in spray with permethrin in it (1g) and active iodine (0.5 mg). I sprayed him under the wings, chest and around the neck. The lice were crawling on my shirt :/

It does seem like the wart-like postules on his beak and around the eyes are drying, but he's also got something growing on his legs where I also apply the iodine mix. Luckily he's only showing signs of external pox.

This is how he looks today:





And this is how his poop looks like:



Why do the other pigeons attack him and where could his parents be? I found him on the ground on a cold rainy day, near my flat, so I thought his parents would be near and would come to take care of him. Is he really on his own now?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I think you should consider Jay's advice for treating canker too. The lesion looking similar to pox could be because of canker sometimes. Also bald area i. e unusual feather growth is also a symptom of canker.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Birdie update*

He seems much better of the pox but seems to be losing more feathers around the neck. I think I'm stressing him too much whenever I grab him to apply the iodine, should I stop doing it? I've read that being under stress can actually make them produce more trichomonas (if he's got canker) than normal and lower their immunity...there are also the white little 'bags' on his legs that concern me.

I still haven't been able to find the metronidazole...

I'm also concerned about the food he's eating. I recently noticed he was only eating the millet or wheat seeds and not the corn or sunflower, like as if they were too big for him to eat, today I noticed he started eating the sunflower seeds also. Should I be adding/removing anything else to his food? I added a nutritional supplement (which contain all essential amino acids and vitamins) for about 5 days to his water. I bought him a 'wild seed mix' by Versele-Laga.

I'm concerned about him because I don't have time to watch him and he's in the kitchen the whole day (he's free to fly and has a view of the balcony where other pigeons come, possibly his parents), and the only time I come near him is when I apply the iodine and then he's scared and wants to escape. Is there a chance for him to reunite with his family once he's recovered or has he been 'banned' from the colony for good?


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Forgot to mention*

I forgot to mention that his droppings have got a proper shape now, meaning it hasn't got so much liquid in it as before. I will post a photo soon...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks for the update and your care for the bird. He seems to be improving. 
If iodine is working on pox lesions, I wouldn't stop the treatment until all the lesions heal and see no new ones. 

Still needs canker to be treated, chin feathers haven't appeared yet. Don't you people get medicines without prescription there? What about ordering it online if not available over the counter? When canker starts worsening, you don't get much time. Treating him for canker should be considered first. 

Yes he will reunite in wild flock if you do not socialize with him much and not much tame and that I don't think he would be if you are limiting your contact to just medicating. 
Keep giving him bird seeds what you are giving, he will eventually learn to pick other seeds too, he is still a baby, in wild they eat everything available.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Yes, I agree, the bird needs to be treated for canker.*


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Medication*

OK, I'll do my best to get the medicine, metronidazole or ronidazole? in tablets or in a liquid form? how should I give it to him? Do I need to weigh him? I havent got a scale :/


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Tablet would be much better to give by opening his beak and putting in mouth sliding down the throat by finger. With liquid medicines there are risks to aspirate them. Also if you put it in their drinking water, can't be sure how much actually he has taken in. So to be dosed correctly, tablet would be better if you get. On basis of how much mg it contains, we would guide you how it has to be broken to get required dose. 
So as soon as you get it, pls post us here the strength so we can advise you about dosing.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Medication*



kiddy said:


> Tablet would be much better to give by opening his beak and putting in mouth sliding down the throat by finger. With liquid medicines there are risks to aspirate them. Also if you put it in their drinking water, can't be sure how much actually he has taken in. So to be dosed correctly, tablet would be better if you get. On basis of how much mg it contains, we would guide you how it has to be broken to get required dose.
> So as soon as you get it, pls post us here the strength so we can advise you about dosing.


I've just asked at the quemist's and they don't sell it without a prescription...so I'll ask my vet if he can give me one. The lady told me they've got 250mg and a 400mg metronidazole tablets, and it's called 'Orvagil', but I've read it's been discontinued in general because of cancer related issues  Is Ronidazol safer?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Metronidazole works well for canker, if overdosed it may cause consequences but you just have to give him for 7-10 days, it doesn't harm the bird if dosed rightly. 
You can get 250 mg tablet from the vet and treat with that. You will have to give him approx 30 mg at this age.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Picasso the pigeon.*

I got the prescription from my vet. Unfortunately, they didn't have the 250mg in the end so I'll have to go to a different quemist tomorrow or wait until it arrives.

Is it save to just push the pill? How do I know which one is the right hole? I'm afraid he could choke...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

You will just have to keep the pill in his mouth and he will swallow by himself. 
If you face problem in opening his beak, you may wrap him in a towel and put in your lap. Then by left hand get a hold of his beak and by right hand open it and put the medicine and let him swallow by releasing his beak. (if you are right handed). 
You can't put the medicine in his air aperture, it is very small, if you put it in beak and slide just a little and release the beak, it can just go down the throat and nowhere else (if doesn't come out). So don't worry. 
With liquids there is a danger of aspirating them though.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*How to divide the medicine.*

I got the medicine. How should I divide it? It doesnt come with any division and Im worried I could overdose him :/


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Divide one pill into 4 equal parts first, and then take one part and give its half, it would be 1/8th part of the pill this way. And you will have to give this 1/8 th part for 7-10 days. Metronidazole may cause them vomit so it is recommended to feed first and then give the medicine.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Made it!*



kiddy said:


> Divide one pill into 4 equal parts first, and then take one part and give its half, it would be 1/8th part of the pill this way. And you will have to give this 1/8 th part for 7-10 days. Metronidazole may cause them vomit so it is recommended to feed first and then give the medicine.


Thank you, I managed to give him the first half. Its onpy once a day isnt't it? 

Another question I've been wondering about is if I should buy grit for him. Or any other seeds Hes been eating mostly the millet, sunflower and hemp seeds.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes it is once in a day, remember it should be 1/8th part of 250 mg pill for 7-10 days. 
If there are pet stores in your area, ask them for pigeon /dove seed mix. That would be good for him.
Yes grit is necessary for them, it helps them in digesting their grain shells they eat. 
Also they need calcium +D3 supplement weekly to strengthen their bones. And also vitamins to be given in their drinking water.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Picasso's strange 'toe'...*

Bought the grit. Should I mix a little with the food everyday or in a separate place? I usually just spread the seeds on the floor or where he is at the moment. 

I also bought new seeds and some seeds wich come with added vitamins and minerals (calcium carbonate, vitamins A, B1,B2,B6,B12, C,D3,E,Fe, minerals Ca, Na, zeolite and crushed shells). I've been adding the vitamins to his water, but if I give him those seeds should I stop with the liquid vitamins so I don't overdose him?

And finally, I've noticed a couple of days ago that one of his 'toes' has gone black. I'm attaching some photos I took today after applying the iodine. What could be wrong? it really looks like as if it were going to fall off, like as if it were dead 

On a brighter tone, the nodules around the eye and neck have all dried, although he still has something below his beak which I'm still not sure what it is, it doesn't look like a nodule, more like an additional part of the beak...


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Two more.*

A couple more photographs.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Not sure about his black toe. Was it black at all before you applied iodine, which would make it black? He otherwise seems healthier. Good work!


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Strange toe and others.*



cwebster said:


> Not sure about his black toe. Was it black at all before you applied iodine, which would make it black? He otherwise seems healthier. Good work!


It started after I think, but I've almost haven't applied it on the toes themselves, but mostly on the legs, as you can see he's got quite a few of those white lumps. Are they related to the pox or to canker? I've also noticed he's got little yellow nodules in other parts of his body, but they're so small and in between the feathers that you can't see them unless you look for them.


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## TomNY (Nov 3, 2013)

Pox was my first thought. My second thought was that you have tried so many supplements and treatments it could be an imbalance, over-dosage, or reaction. No blame is intended. I think you are doing a very good job. I have one breed of chicken that often one or two toes will lose the nail and first joint. It doesn't seem to bother them and I've never found the cause. Not many, one or two birds every few years. Tom


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Overdose?*

It could be...I've only been giving him one 'real' treatment (metronidazole). The rest has been just applying the 1:1 iodine/water solution to the nodules every day, once a day (which I know only apply on the legs), and the essential vitamin/amino acid (Promotor-L) drops to his water, but not every day as it says in the instructions to give for only 5 days on a row. So I gave him the drops for 5 days, then I stopped for a couple, then again since yesterday. How often should I give him the vitamins then?

These are the components of Promotor L (I couldn't find the translation in English as it's a Spanish laboratory, but I'm hoping it's understandable?) 

Vitamina A...............................................................10 millones UI
Vitamina D3................................................................2 millones UI
Menadiona Sódica Bisulfito (Vit. K3)........................... 500 mg
Nicotinamida........................................................... 16.25 g.
D Pantenol............................................................... 7.5 g.
Aneurina HCl (Vit. B1).............................................. 1.75 g.
Riboflavina 5 fosf. sódico (Vit. B2)............................. 2.5 g.
Piridoxina HCl (Vit. B6)............................................. 1.125 g.
Vitamina B12........................................................... 1.25 mcg.
Pangamato sódico (Vit. B15)..................................... 0.5 mg
Biotina..................................................................... 1000 mcg
Inositol.................................................................... 2.5 g.
Alanina.................................................................... 11.5 g.
Arginina................................................................... 6.5 g.
Acido Aspártico......................................................... 9.5 g.
Fenilalanina.............................................................. 5.5 g.
Cistina...................................................................... 2.1 g.
Acido Glutámico........................................................ 21.5 g.
Glicina...................................................................... 9.6 g.
Histidina................................................................... 4.7 g.
Hidroxiprolina............................................................ trazas
Isoleucina................................................................. 6.0 g.
Leucina................................................................... 12.5 g.
Lisina....................................................................... 9.5 g.
Metionina................................................................. 2.2 g.
Prolina..................................................................... 9.5 g.
Serina...................................................................... 7.0 g.
Treonina.................................................................. 5.0 g.
Triptófano................................................................ 2.0 g.
Ttirosina................................................................... 5.3 g.
Valina....................................................................... 6.2 g.
Enzimas................................................................... trazas

He is still mostly picking on the millet and sunflower seeds (too much fat in his diet?). I put a little of the grit mixed with the seeds, but I'm not sure he's eaten yet.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Picasso's developement.*

Hello, here's an update on Picasso. He's now almost completely cured of the pox, but still has some nodules on his legs. The only problem remains the same: His toe...it's now taken almost the entire toe and I'm afraid it could cause him an infection or something worse. It looks like it's ''dried'' I'm guessing he's not getting it back as it was...? 



My last theory is that he may have hit somewhere while flying and he wasn't able to heal properly. I only gave him the metronidazole for 10 days and the vitamins which I add to his water everyday. I also mix some grit with the seeds but I'm not sure he actually eats it. Do I need to give him calcium separately?

The other issue that I'm concerned about is his beak. It looks like the upper part grew too much and its making pressure on the lower part because it looks like its slowlty 'eroding' it...I don't know...poor guy, I wish he could just recover and be reunited with his family...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Will have to wait and see what happens with the toe. The upper beak is normally longer than the lower and grows down over it a bit. The pox may have changed the growth a bit. Will also have to see how that does in time. Glad he is getting better.
Also don't add the grit to the seed. Put it in a separate dish that he can pick from when he needs it. Yes, he does need calcium. A good calcium and D3 supplement is CalciBoost that you can add to the water a couple of times a week. Don't add it to the other vitamins though.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks for the update. Glad he has recovered from pox.
Is his canker treatment over? What about his chin feathers? 
Is it just his toe has turned to black or he doesn't use that toe to grip etc.?
Are you still applying anything over his legs?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He will probably lose that toe.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Sadly it seemed Iike that, but what could be the reason?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't know. Did the pox somehow cut off the circulation? Are you sure there isn't a hair or something wrapped around that toe?


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Picasso*



kiddy said:


> Thanks for the update. Glad he has recovered from pox.
> Is his canker treatment over? What about his chin feathers?
> Is it just his toe has turned to black or he doesn't use that toe to grip etc.?
> Are you still applying anything over his legs?


Yes, I gave it to him for 10 days. He hasn't got feathers around the chin and eyes, as you can tell a little from the photo. 



His toe started turning black before the metronidazole and then I noticed he wouldn't bend it or use it like the others to grip. Right now it looks like as if it's 'dried' up and it's not functional anymore...

I'm still applying the iodine/water solution only on his legs and toes, where he has the nodules.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

The feathers should grow there then. They can take some time to show up. 
As Jay asked do you think something could cut off the blood circulation like hair or something like that? Was there pox over that toe also? Probably something has stopped blood circulation and that's why it is kind of dead.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*No thread.*



kiddy said:


> The feathers should grow there then. They can take some time to show up.
> As Jay asked do you think something could cut off the blood circulation like hair or something like that? Was there pox over that toe also? Probably something has stopped blood circulation and that's why it is kind of dead.


I haven't noticed anything like that, The toe was OK when he first came. I've come to think maybe when trying to catch him to give him the medicine and put the iodione he may have hit somewhere...it now looks like its stopped 'drying up' and its a little swollen around the area where blood is still circulating. He usually sleeps on the other toe and hides the other, it probably hurts him. I tried to catch him today and I couldnt, I was making him more nervous than anything and it probably hurt him even more as he was trying to escape from me. So when he landed somewhere I approached slowly and he let me apply the iodine solution on the places where he still has nodules (they've almost disappeared). I dont remember him having pox on the toes as much as he had in the upper part of the legs. He now has a couple on the toes but not on the black one. Should I stop with the iodine now?

Im also worried about his beak. Its looking like something is 'eating' the lower part away, the tip. His beak looks longer than the adult pigeons, is that normal? 

I still havent given him the calcium plus D3. I have pure calcium in tablets, is that enough or do I need to get the one that comes with D3? As Ive been giving him the vitamins in his water everyday.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You really should be giving a calcium supplement with D3 in it for birds. They need to get the right amount, and also need D3 to be able to use the calcium, unless he is getting out daily in the sunshine.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreaP, when you said something is eating his lower beak away, do you think it has shortened since you found him? Do you notice something powdery or rough at lower beak? Do you think the upper beak is over growing or lower is shortening? 
And yes, pls do order some calcium which has D3. 
Also if the toe seems swollen, a gentle massage should help.

Edit: if there are no pox lesions, you can stop applying iodine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> AndreaP, when you said something is eating his lower beak away, do you think it has shortened since you found him? Do you notice something powdery or rough at lower beak? Do you think the upper beak is over growing or lower is shortening?
> And yes, pls do order some calcium which has D3.
> Also if the toe seems swollen, a gentle massage should help.
> 
> Edit: if there are no pox lesions, you can stop applying iodine.


I wouldn't message the toe. It has to be very painful. Messaging will hurt.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't message the toe. It has to be very painful. Messaging will hurt.


Was thinking to get blood circulated if the toe has problem of circulation but you are right it may be painful, not a hard massage I was talking about though. 
Anyways, should warm fomentation help in swollen toe? It won't hurt I think but would help in releasing pain and swelling.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

soaking in warm, but not very warm water could help. It's just that right now the toe is very sore, so wouldn't want to put _any_ pressure on it.


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

*Calcium+D3*

I'll try, he doesnt let me get too near and I dont want to stress him more...

I've only found Calcium citrate+Vitamin D3 for a brand called 'Solgar' it comes in tablets but I dont know the amount in grams (of the components), the quemist couldnt see it so I dont know how kuch I should give him. 

I think from what I can see that the upper beak is over growing the lower part but theres something strange about the surface I cant quite grasp. I noticed something was changing on the inside, also in the se area where he has that, but from the inside. And I thought at the time that it may be canker, but canker doesnt develop externally, does it?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't give him calcium pills if you don't know the strength. Have to find something else.
As far as the beak, that is what pox does. If they get it on the beak or in the mouth, it can really mess up the beak. Can you post pics?


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## AndreaP (Sep 11, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> You can't give him calcium pills if you don't know the strength. Have to find something else.
> As far as the beak, that is what pox does. If they get it on the beak or in the mouth, it can really mess up the beak. Can you post pics?


Yup, I know, thats why I havent bought it and I asked you about it  I've been recomended crushed egg shells for calcium, what do you think? 

I have already posted photos of his beak a few days ago, its the closest I cant get to him to photograph him. 

I spoke to a man whos had pigeons his whole life and he told me the toe will probably fall off and that I dont need to give him anything...ad the same for the beak, he said its probably the pox and that itll also go away in time. As long as he is eating well and his poo looks ok, everyrhing is under control. He also said I should give him the vitamins only once or twice weekly, and not everyday as I've been doing. I dont get it, its hard to know what to do like this...:/


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Was there pox over the beak? Sorry I don't remember if it was. 
Also Google for burrowing mites and see if any description looks similar to your bird. I have no experience with them but still you can see if something looks like that since I am not able to understand when you are saying something internally, burrowing mites too cause something similar. 
Yes vitamins are sufficient weekly or twice a week. During molting I give more frequently though. 

Crushed egg shells are good for them but keep the bird in direct sunshine(not through the glass window or any screen) in some enclosure for at least 20-30 minutes daily so he can synthesize vitamin D3 to use the calcium from egg shells. Without vitamin D3 she wouldn't be able use Calcium. You can either use egg shells from boiled eggs or wash the egg shell thoroughly and microwave if from raw eggs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The pox has messed up the beak, and it could really damage it. Really no telling until he heals to see what damage it has done. I'm sorry. Some birds are lucky, then some almost totally lose their beak and can't pick up food to eat. 
Pox can really mess them up unfortunately. Also, there were pox lesions on the toe in question. They were in one of the pics.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Poor birds. Wish this bird is lucky.


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