# how to get kite



## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

what does it take to get kite offspring? ive read the color chart on slobberknockers but doesnt actually say how to try and get this color.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Good question mike, i am not sure, but i have 3, someone will come on and answer, as i am interested too. Dave


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I wish I knew too!
I started out with 2 pairs of fantails. 2 red saddles, 1 silver saddle cock and 1 kite saddle hen. I now have 15 and half of them are kite saddles. 1 of the offspring kite's came from the red saddles.


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## aarongreen123 (Jan 26, 2005)

i am interested in this as well!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

What is kite? I thought it was one of those things that you try to fly and get tangled in wires or trees...........
What does it look like?


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## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

there doesnt seem to be any one that wants to answer this one.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mike699 said:


> there doesnt seem to be any one that wants to answer this one.


Just the right people haven't come on line yet. They will. They love this stuff!!


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## aarongreen123 (Jan 26, 2005)

what is the color called that is that deep intense reddish chesnut color?


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/ -
This is Franks site, loads of info. Look under Almond. It is associated with the Almond Color, I still have a lot to Learn about Almond breeding. Dave


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm glad somebody replied. I was waiting for the smart @$$ answer's to come pouring in ie, the kite store!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

LOL!
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=581&pictureid=6789
This is a bad Pic of one of mine. It does not show the bronze on the wings, this is the hen that produced my Almond youngster. Dave


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

LUCKYT said:


> LOL!
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=581&pictureid=6789
> This is a bad Pic of one of mine. It does not show the bronze on the wings, this is the hen that produced my Almond youngster. Dave


You're right.......that's a bad picture.......LOL


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well..... LOL! You are Right! Dave


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## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

you know,.... no one ever did actually tell us what to breed to get a kite colored bird, surely someone knows.lol


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Kite is bronze*

Kite is just one of the many bronze modifiers that we have in pigeons. The birds that are normally referred to as kites are t pattern blues with kite bronze and are used mainly in almond breeding. The bronze on them can be restricted to the web of the flights or can extend into the shield. 

Bronzes can be intensified with the use of indigo and other factors such as birds that carry recessive red.

Bill


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## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

so-??? bill, if i were to try and breed two birds together to acquire a kite offspring what would i use as the mother and father??


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*You need at least one kite to start*



mike699 said:


> so-??? bill, if i were to try and breed two birds together to acquire a kite offspring what would i use as the mother and father??


Is it the classic kite bird that you are trying to make? If so, you need t pattern, blue and kite bronze. 

Bill


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## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

thanks bill. that hepls some, as you can tell im new to the genetics but i do find it very interesting and quite the challenge.. thanks again


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Someone told me this was kite.....is it? Might have been you Bill. Thought people might wanna see. (I did not cut those wings, found him like that)


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Kimberly*

Yes, I remember and it looks like a kite with some pied markings. The bird may also have another bronze or may be split for recessive red which tends to bring out more bronze.

Bill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Or it might be a rich INDIGO.* GEORGE


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## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

I don't think that is a kite. My kites are solid black with a reddish or bronze color on the edes of their wings. They are not pied.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*It could be indigo*

But I thought this bird showed too much of a tail bar for indigo, still it is possible.

As to the kites, yes, the classic kite is t pattern blue with kite bronze and no white. Adding white would not change the fact that the bird is still kite bronze though. It just wouldn't be what we consider the proper kite coloration or marking. This bird is certainly pied but the basic color of the bird has nothing to do with the white markings.

One thing for sure, this bird is t pattern blue with some kind of bronze, whether from kite or indigo or some other factor that brings about bronze. I would not be at all surprised if it is split for recessive red, which tends to present even more bronze on birds.

Bill


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> But I thought this bird showed too much of a tail bar for indigo, still it is possible.
> 
> As to the kites, yes, the classic kite is t pattern blue with kite bronze and no white. Adding white would not change the fact that the bird is still kite bronze though. It just wouldn't be what we consider the proper kite coloration or marking. This bird is certainly pied but the basic color of the bird has nothing to do with the white markings.
> 
> ...


I don't understand when you say "no white". Does that go for saddles too?
One of the Fantail pairs I bought (I was told) is Kite Saddle. And one was suppose to be Silver Saddle. This is the pair. They both have bronze on their wings. The lighter one, not as much. Which one is kite and which one is silver. I assumed the lighter was silver. (?)


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

mike699 said:


> what does it take to get kite offspring? ive read the color chart on slobberknockers but doesnt actually say how to try and get this color.


*Hi MIKE,There are many ways that one can breed Kites,as Bill said you need a KITE but that is one way there are others.Once again I go to the book written by Axel Sell "Breeding and Inheritance in Pigeons", Almond cock/Agate hen you will get 25% Almond,25%DeRoy,25%Kite and 25% Agate........Agate cock/Almond hen = half the young cocks will be Almond and half will be DeRoy,half of the hens will be Kites and the rest will be Agates.........DeRoy cock/Almond hen and vice versa: one quarterwill be semi-leathal pure white Almond cocks,one quarter will be Almond in both sexes, one quarter will be DeRoy in both sexes,one eight Kite hens and one eight Agate hens. I think I best stop here as I have Kites,Agate,DeRoy,and Almonds bouncing around in my head. I will say one other thing If you are into breeding Almonds you will get kites along the way.*GEORGE


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## mike699 (Mar 28, 2009)

thanks guys the discussion helps clarify some things for sure. when i started raising pigeons 36 years ago things were alot simpler, but i dont ever remember the colors that i see now. its quite the challenge to learn this genetic stuff. i got to get a copy of that book. thanks again


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Can't tell for sure*



Msfreebird said:


> I don't understand when you say "no white". Does that go for saddles too?
> One of the Fantail pairs I bought (I was told) is Kite Saddle. And one was suppose to be Silver Saddle. This is the pair. They both have bronze on their wings. The lighter one, not as much. Which one is kite and which one is silver. I assumed the lighter was silver. (?)


Saddle can be kite, just like a pied can be kite. It's just that the classic kite colored pigeon doesn't have white. Confusing but white is irrelevant when referring to the color of a pigeon. There are plenty of names for birds with white on them that relate to the white markings and how they are placed. They could still have kite as part of their makeup.

I can't see these saddles well enough to say what they are for sure but the lighter one looks like a powder blue in the picture which is not silver but is milky blue. They are often called powdered silvers but the name is not exactly correct.

The darker bird may be kite, can't tell. If you post another picture, maybe we can tell what it is.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi George*



george simon said:


> *Hi MIKE,There are many ways that one can breed Kites,as Bill said you need a KITE but that is one way there are others.Once again I go to the book written by Axel Sell "Breeding and Inheritance in Pigeons", Almond cock/Agate hen you will get 25% Almond,25%DeRoy,25%Kite and 25% Agate........Agate cock/Almond hen = half the young cocks will be Almond and half will be DeRoy,half of the hens will be Kites and the rest will be Agates.........DeRoy cock/Almond hen and vice versa: one quarterwill be semi-leathal pure white Almond cocks,one quarter will be Almond in both sexes, one quarter will be DeRoy in both sexes,one eight Kite hens and one eight Agate hens. I think I best stop here as I have Kites,Agate,DeRoy,and Almonds bouncing around in my head. I will say one other thing If you are into breeding Almonds you will get kites along the way.*GEORGE


This is only true if there was kite in the almond breeding. Classic almond has kite in it but there are plenty of almonds that don't come from kite. This is why I say that you have to have kite to begin with. If you know that there is kite bronze in your almonds, then as you say, you can obtain it from there.

Bill


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## Dutchwitschild (Feb 7, 2009)

*How to breed Kites?*

I breed my kites in the Brander-bronze breed in this way.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Can you tell me which bronze this is?*



Dutchwitschild said:


> I breed my kites in the Brander-bronze breed in this way.


I have kite rollers that look exactly like your kites and am trying to make brander bronze rollers. Is this brander bronze or another bronze that combines with kite to make brander? Thank you.

Bill


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## Dutchwitschild (Feb 7, 2009)

*Red-agate to Kites makes Brander-bronze*

Hi Bill

I did not translate this part of my site, but if you visit:
http://witschild.come2me.nl/945729/Schoorsteenvegers, then you can see more about brander-bronze.
You need a red-agate. A red-agate is a recessive red without the spread-factor. Together with a kite you can breed brander-bronze in this way:








This is a red agate:









Is there no breeder of Brander-bronze Showtipplers in your neighbourhood?
Good luck !
Ko


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks*

So, are you saying brander bronze is just kite bronze and het recessive red without spread factor?

No, there are no pigeon breeders in my neighborhood but I know some who raise bronze show tipplers.

We have had a few discussions about what all is in them and there are always questions. Thanks alot.

Bill


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