# Found pigeon sitting out in the rain



## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Hello

Yesterday around 5pm I noticed a pigeon sitting in the garden in the rain, it was away from the other birds that were feeding. It would move away if I got too close but then it would go back to the same spot again, so I decided to keep an eye on it but it was still there three hour's later sitting in the same spot without eating anything.

I decided to take it in for the night, it walked around the garden as I was trying to catch it and it did manage to fly up to the window on the hut which is 1m high. I placed it in a box with a hot water bottle overnight. This morning it's sitting there in the box so I put down some water, seed and defrosted peas but I cant see that it's had anything. I don't know anything about pigeon's but I did read about them possibly having canker, I had a look in it's mouth and there aren't any signs off that. It's pooh look okay, brown/white and formed. 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Andrew


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Not sure what is wrong. Someone more expert should answer soon. Thank you for rescuing him! Can you also offer pigeon mix or wild bird seed? Thanks.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Wondering if he might need a calcium boost as you can't see anything wrong with him and the poo looks fine. Sometimes a calcium shortage can ground them although it's unusual for a wild bird and we have a lot of sunshine ATM. Hope someone comes along with better advice. Also dip his beak in a dish of water just below the nostrils to see if he wants a drink, don't put any in his mouth as they can aspirate that way. My birds love hemp seeds that I get from the baking section in Asda, maybe they'd temp him to eat.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks for replying.

I had placed some soft peas in the box this morning but I don't think any have been eaten, so I thought I would try feeding by hand which I haven't done before so he's just eaten about 20 small peas. It was no nice to see him swallowing the peas, I also placed his beak in some water but I cannot tell if he's drinking anything.

You mention calcium, there hasn't been much sun in the North East of England. Overcast and rain this week, not bad last weekend but cloudy and the week before was horrible with a lot of rain.

Now I know how to feed by hand my plan was to soften some cat biscuit's in some boiling water and give him those in an hour or so.

I'll see if I can get some hemp!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He shouldn't have cat biscuits because he's not a meat eater although I know some give them to young pigeons now and then, peas are better as they contain moisture so it doesn't matter if he's not drinking. You can also give him defrosted sweetcorn with the peas. Once he picks up and has had a good few feeds he'll probably start eating on his own. You're aiming at thirty to forty peas three times a day - just feel his crop which should be full but not tight, like a squashy bean bag. If his crop empties regularly you may need to feed him four times a day. I use Zolcal D3 calcium supplement for my birds, you add it to their water as per instructions but it can be given directly at a dose of 0.01ml per 100 gram body weight. My adults get 0.02ml directly once a week and I put some in their water on a different day too. Twice a week is enough to keep them healthy but a direct dose is good to boost them faster. No more than twice a week because too much is also not good for them.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks for the advice Freda

I better go to the shops when they open, my concern was not knowing how much to feed but I'll feel his crop as you say.

It's all new to me but I'll do the best I can for him/her, I'm learning!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How are you confining him in the box? Can you somehow cover it with a screen or something that will let light in? He won't eat or drink in the dark, and being so closed up isn't good if you are closing up the box. A plastic dog or cat carrier would be good.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

He's been in a large cardboard box with some 25mm holes in the top.

But I'm almost finished converting an old set of drawer's into a house for him, it'll be finished in a couple of hours. It's similar to a rabbit hutch with some grills on the front and also a more enclosed section.

I can feel the 30 peas I've been feeding him three time's a day, but I'm not finding it particularly easy to tell when his crop his full so I'm reluctant to give him more.

He weighs 250g.

He's doing well and has plenty of energy now after a couple of days of feeding.

Am I correct in thinking I should be looking after him until he's put some weight on but is also capable of feeding/drinking himself?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrew2007 said:


> He's been in a large cardboard box with some 25mm holes in the top.
> 
> But I'm almost finished converting an old set of drawer's into a house for him, it'll be finished in a couple of hours. It's similar to a rabbit hutch with some grills on the front and also a more enclosed section.
> 
> ...


You couldn't very well put out a bird that isn't eating and drinking well. That would make no sense. 
There is more to it than his not eating or drinking. He is an adult, so why is he not eating or drinking? Not like he doesn't know how. So he is sick. The thing is to figure out what is wrong so he can be treated. Could even be an egg bound female. Can you get a calcium/vitamin D3 supplement to give him/her? Just trying different things to try to figure out what is wrong. An avian vet could test the droppings and bird and let you know what he needs. He is a feral bird, so don't think he just didn't know where to find food and water. He is holding his wings normally, at least in that picture you posted, so there is a reason he isn't flying. Either to weak or sick to fly. Can you post more pics of him outside of the box, and how he holds his wings, his posture?


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

I said that about keeping him until he can he can obviously eat and drink himself because there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with him other than that.

From looking at photos of other pigeons he appears to be maybe 3 1/2 week's old and I have read that it's possible that a pigeon doesn't know now to feed themself if they haven't learn how, they need to be taught.

After feeding him for a few days I can see the change in the amount of energy he has when I'm holding him, he certainly wasn't like that when I took him in. Obviously if he hasn't got the strength he's going to struggle to fly.

Plenty of droppings too.

I have a cctv camera pointed at his house which is in a large workshop (I'm not disturbing him), he's just been preening himself and flapping his wings a little.

I've ordered some calcium supplement which is being delivered tomorrow.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear he is doing well.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Sounds like he is doing well and if he's that young he maybe can't fly properly yet. It doesn't take much to fly from the nest because most of it could have been more of a fall than a fly but to lift off again will be harder. My birds had the benefit of lots of small flights with easy to access landing points not too far off the ground when they were learning to fly, so your little one may just need a bit more strength, which he's getting from the peas you're feeding him. When you offer him seed scatter it on the floor of his box rather than in a bowl because they peck around for days before they learn how to swallow it. 
The calcium could be all he needs for an extra boost and he'll need grit once he starts eating grain which you can easily get online. 
You're doing a fab job with him, well done.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Looking at him again he's definitely more than three weeks old, he'd have yellow bits of fluff still poking through his feathers. Carry on with what you're doing and see if he improves with the calcium because he looks pretty healthy and has good feather coverage. Bless him/her. Also if it's a her and she is eggbound the calcium stimulates muscles to help her expell the egg too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The calcium supplement needs to contain vit. D3, or you need to get him outside in the sunlight for a half hour or so daily for the D3, without which he won't be able to absorb any calcium he gets.

Is his nose cere not white? Can you post more clear pics of him?


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

His cere is white, so that's going to make him older than what I thought.

It's the Zolcal vitamin D3 which is coming today.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's sick. Hard to tell with what. Sick birds don't want to eat, and they stop flying.
Could need worming or an antibiotic. Could be canker also, but I would expect that he would drink as they are usually thirsty with canker.
The problem isn't getting him to eat on his own. It's figuring out what he is sick with and treating it so that you get him healthy again, then he will go back to eating on his own.

That's almost the same picture. I meant different pics from different angles.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

I checked him out a couple of days ago and there isn't any canker at the back of his mouth as it's all clear. When I was holding him during feeding he almost flew out of my hand as he caught me by surprise, his energy level has increased noticeably in a few days.

His house is in a workshop which I'm not using, I don't know if it would be safe to put him down on the floor if I close the shutter's on the window's?

https://postimg.org/gallery/pcp45pyc/


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

He's really cute. Thanks for rescuing him. Does he not eat anything by himself at all? Soft peas should be a favorite of pigeons. Have you tried raw sunflower seeds? They have them at Trader Joe's.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

When I've been feeding by hand the peas and some sweet corn I always place the remainder on the floor of his house but I haven't seen him pecking at anything.

I haven't tried sunflower seeds as I thought they may be too dry if he's not drinking any water.

I moved a small cctv camera so I can watch him from in the house, most of the time he just sits on his perch without walking around.

His breast bone is prominent, I place his beak in some water now and then but I haven't seen him swallow.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

His breastbone is prominent because he isn't eating.
Not seeing canker in his throat means nothing, as it doesn't often show in the throat.
Yes, he has energy reserves to escape you, but he is using up his reserves. He panics because he is a wild bird, and to him you are a predator. If I had him and couldn't go to an avian vet, which would be the best thing, I would treat for canker, as it is so common, and a good wide spectrum antibiotic like Baytril (Enrofloxyn), or Amoxicillin. That way you are covering a lot of bases. He isn't just going to get better without help.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would try giving him treats to get him to eat. Our beloved former feral Phoebe loved parakeet treats such as Kaytee orange blossom honey and tropical flavor seeds. We gave her those to stimulate her appetite. Pigeons also love chopped unsalted peants and safflower seeds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Facebook Page Rescue group in the UK
If you are on Facebook, I suggest you join the Pigeon Rescue group which is a network of rescuers and some rescue centres in the UK:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Good news, I've just been watching him on the cctv and the little bugger jumped down off his perch and was eating the seed from the bowl, 2 minutes in total then he stood on the edge of the bowl and had a drink of water. I'm so relieved to see that this morning!!!

I'll see what treats I can get him or try different seeds as I know they may have their favourites, I'll also join that Facebook group.

Thanks very much for now everyone.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He'll love chopped raw peanuts Andrew, I get mine from Asda the cake making isle and chop them myself, I get hemp seed from there too - £1 a pack, hemp £1.28. I use zolcal D3 calcium supplement and direct dose it twice a week and Versele Laga grit with red stone. You can buy a pre/pro biotic called AVIPRO AVIAN online to add to his water and while you're waiting for that to arrive a slither of a fresh garlic clove in his water once day a week is good for their tums too. If you intent to release him once he's better instead of the Avipro you can give 0.03ml of natural fat free probiotic yogurt which will help his tum but it has to be given directly right at the back of his mouth in a few tiny plunges. 
To find out what his problem is you can send a poo sample here:
http://www.animalgenetics.eu/Avian/avian-disease-testing/avian-disease-index.html


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Very glad to hear he is doing better!


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Yes, it's nice to see him doing okay.

Thanks Freda for the advice, he's had some chopped peanuts and hemp today and also a dose of Zolcal D.

I made him a perch which he started using straightaway, he doesn't do any walking around in his house but he's been coming down off his perch and having some food and he always finishes with a drink of water, then straight back on the perch again, so nice to see!

I'll look into getting his poo tested.

Thanks again.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

You're doing a brill job with him Andrew, all credit to you for looking after him. He'll know you and trust you but still be wary of other people. My hand rears are wary of other family members that they don't see very often and the way they eye my little grandson up and down is so funny. Considering they are so tame they still take time getting used to new faces and they'd never seen such a little human before, lol. They even notice new shoes and have a good old stare before coming down to investigate. They are such different pets to any I've had before and just gorgeous. 

So happy to hear your lil guy is on the road to recovery, it'll take time but he sounds like he's on the mend.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

FredaH said:


> You're doing a brill job with him Andrew, all credit to you for looking after him. He'll know you and trust you but still be wary of other people. My hand rears are wary of other family members that they don't see very often and the way they eye my little grandson up and down is so funny. Considering they are so tame they still take time getting used to new faces and they'd never seen such a little human before, lol. They even notice new shoes and have a good old stare before coming down to investigate. They are such different pets to any I've had before and just gorgeous.
> 
> So happy to hear your lil guy is on the road to recovery, it'll take time but he sounds like he's on the mend.


They are gorgeous! 

It is nice getting to know him/her, I always find myself talking and reassuring him and explaining what I'm doing. He's getting accustomed to me picking him up which is good.

With him eating now it's difficult to know what a normal amount of food would be, I can obviously weigh him? Would it be normal to just sit on his perch most of the day and just occasionally go down on the floor to get some food, he could be on his perch for a couple of hours and then have something to eat but then straight back on the perch again?

I was having a look at the place where he can be tested for various diseases but it's confusing as to what to get him tested for.

Thanks Freda, sorry for all the questions.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you go to an avian vet they will check to see what bacteria he is carrying. You need fresh droppings, and they need to be kept cool. It isn't as accurate when you send it through the mail.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Jay, Someone on Facebook mentioned a few possible conditions, I'm no vet but I examined some poo under a X50 microscope plugged into my tablet, I couldn't see any signs of worms, eggs or protozoa.

Maybe a stupid thing to ask but if I was to take a sample to an avian vets would I also take the pigeon, I wouldn't know if that would be too stressful?

I gave him some peas an hour ago and he could hear the pigeon's outside which made him a little uncooperative, he's not short of energy.

Obviously something wasn't right when I found him sitting in the rain but for all I know he may be okay now after receiving a bump or something. It's just so difficult to know with having no experience, I don't know how a pigeon would normally behave if they were enclosed in a rabbit type hutch. He spends most of the day sitting on his perch and it's difficult to know if he's eating enough , should I be weighing him daily?

Sorry for all the questions, I've been searching on the internet for hour after hour but it's not easy.

Thanks again


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A stronger microscope is needed. You can tell how much he eats by measuring what you give him, and how much is gone. If he throws a lot of seed, then you need to use something he can't throw it from. You can also tell by seeing how much he poops. What they look like, etc. How far is the vet? If that is one of his droppings, they sure don't look good.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

It would be approximately 20 minutes by car to a vet which I'll do if that's best.

What can you tell by looking at his droppings, they obviously look totally different when smeared on some glass?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> A stronger microscope is needed.


Jay what strength microscope would be needed as I'm wanting to get one to check their poop occasionally? 

Andrew I use one litre plastic milk containers for food because they kept pooping in their bowls, you can also use them for water. I cut a nice sized hole in it and loosely attach it through the handle to the cage with Velcro ties I got from Asda in the diy/car section - it stops them falling over when the pidgies start knocking the seed about. I hope he's okay and a course of antibiotics help him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I thought you needed a 100X, but I may be wrong. Here is an article on choosing a microscope for an aviary.
http://www.mfgouldianfinches.com/choosing-a-microscope.html

20 minutes by car isn't too bad really.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks Jay

I found an interesting article regarding examining fecal samples.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ggsMAI&usg=AFQjCNERq7CXjwp6SVoVTi2UP-fpdUTJ5A


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

I rang a local avian vet today explaining I had a pigeon and briefly explained the symptoms, the receptionist asked if it was a pet or feral and told me to bring him in and they would try and find time between appointment's. I get there, different receptionist who tells me that the vets are busy and could I just leave him. I told her that I didn't want to just leave him, she gave the impression that I wouldn't see him again as if I didn't care. 

So she said she would speak to a vet and one just came through from the back on her way for lunch, she examined him and couldn't find anything apart from a lot of mites. The recommendation was for some high energy food which they have, it's for cat's and dogs. I did tell her that I had some droppings but she said that she wouldn't be able to do anything with those.

Obviously their intention is to give free consultations for wild animals, but it was a complete waste of time.

Should I have just made a standard appointment like you would do for a pet, are all free consultations for pigeons going to be as poor as this?


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Update.

I have been feeding the pigeon peas and he's also been eating some seed himself but it's 24 hours now and he's not eaten anything himself which is concerning.

This afternoon I travelled 25 mile to take him to an avian vet who couldn't find anything from an examination, I had taken some droppings with me hoping they could be examined but I was told that they would need 5 to 7 day's worth of droppings to do a test. Apparently anything suspicious may be there one day and not show up the next.

The vet said his skinny build with prominent breast bone was not unusual for a feral pigeon, he weighed 250g last week. He couldn't give an approximation for his age.

So the vet has prescribed him some baytril twice a day and some high energy food for bird's, I'll be giving him his first dose in a few minutes as I thought it would be best to leave him for a while to recover to some extent from the trip to the vet's.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you for taking such good care of him! Hope he is better soon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrew2007 said:


> Update.
> 
> I have been feeding the pigeon peas and he's also been eating some seed himself but it's 24 hours now and he's not eaten anything himself which is concerning.
> 
> ...


They do tests here all the time from fresh droppings. It is better to get a few from that day, but don't need 5 or 7 days. They just didn't want to bother. It would have been good to ask the vet for Nystatin, as Baytril can cause yeast infections. It's always a good idea to get Nystatin if you treat with Baytril. Also, Baytril has been proven to work better when the full dose is given once a day, rather than dividing the dose. Baytril doesn't work it's best by keeping a level in the system. It is when it peaks that it kills the most bacteria, so giving once daily, makes it stronger at its peak. Works better that way.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I've got an avian vet and a non avian vet and the avian vet ummed and aahed about amputating my pigeons toe - when I saw Nick the non avian vet about it he was much more confident, said leave him here and I'll call you - which he did three hours later. He did a super job and managed to put a couple of stitches in the tiny stump. So from now on I see Nick about the birds if needed. He's young and has updated skills so I think all you need is a really good vet and not necessarily an avian one. 

Hope the little fella responds to the meds and don't give calcium supplement while he's having tha Baytril because it can absorb the drug.
Also I agree with Jay about the once daily dose because that's what it says on the manufacturers website too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Freda, that's great that you have a vet who will see pigeons. Many non avian vets won't. I guess it all depends on their being a good vet or not. But many non avian don't know enough about birds. However, I know there are some avian vets that aren't so hot either.


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## Andrew2007 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks for the valuable information everyone.

I'll change the Baytril dosage. I could ring the vet and possibly ask to get some Nystatin, if I couldn't get any I've been reading about Lugol's iodine being used to treat yeast infections but placing any medication in the water wouldn't be good if he's not going to be drinking much.

I'll have another look at that place you mentioned earlier Freda where I can send away some of his droppings to be tested.


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