# Had a bad thing happen here today



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Had a young adult Pigeon, just brought to me a few days ago...anyway, lovely bright happy sociable Pigeon, had nutritional and Leg problems.


Was hand raised by others, could not stand or walk, even though he flew very well and liked to land on my Head.


I had to go to the store and run a few errands, so had him in a Cage special for him with a narrow padded Tray he could lay in for comfort, without thrashing.


Get home, he is covered in Ants, thousands of them, all over his face and everything, but he was just 'sitting' there as if he were comfortable and resting...I scoop him up, start brushing Ants off, picking Ants off, spend two hours getting ants off, then on to three hours still getting the odd ones off, Ants still coming out of his Feathers...him on a Towel on my lap.


His skin tone was 'pale' and I think he was already in shock already, when I started to deal with it, he was hardly moving or registering any protests or anything...


Anyway, he just slipped away after however long it was of me getting Ants off of him, he just quietly expired as I was continuing to get Ants off, and it was so subtle I did not even realize he'd died.


I tried doing artificial respiration for him for a half hour, hoping he'd show some signs of Life and nothing changed.


I feel so sick about this, this is just so horrible and exhasperating...tragic...stuck in his Cage with Legs not working, he could not get away or perch higher or whatever...


I have tried to hard to be tolerant of the Ants here, but this is a deal-breaker, and I intend now to exterminate them completely.


The Ants have lived here underground for who knows how long, fifty years, a hundred, long before this Building was built most likely, and I have never had a problem with them before, even when it has been inconvenient for me.


They took over the Bathroom three months ago and have made it impossible to do anything in there or to even go in there, hundreds of thousands of them streaming in 'Rivers' all over the walls, covering everything in there, drowning by the thousands in the Toilet, falling like 'rain' from the ceiling, but they had confined themselves to that small space, and had not bothered any Birds till now nor ventured to any degree from there...and I kept waiting for the 'swarm' to finally wrap up, like it should, and for them to go back underground again, but they have not.

I spread Diatomaceous Earth, and it did not do a darned thing to effect their swaming in there.


The convelesent cages are not even close to the Bathroom...


Anyway, this is about the most horrible thing I have ever seen.


Damn those Ants...this is just too much.


Tomorrow I will go and get something to get rid of them...and to get rid of them all, anywhere I see them...every last one.




Phil
l v


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil,

I am so very sorry about what happened to you today. It must have been horrible. Poor little Pidge and what a terrible experience for you. That is the kind of stuff really bad nightmares are made of.

Please don't tolerate the ants any longer. You should not have to live where you can't enter your own bathroom. Sounds like your situation is so severe that over-the-counter stuff might not be enough. You might consider calling in a professional exterminator.

I'm here in Vegas as you know. If I can help you in any way, please just ask.

Regards,
Louise


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I am utterly speachless.
You're talking about Peep, aren't you?


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

YIKES, Phil! that is one serious ant infestation. I, too, think that getting rid of them may take a professional service. Hope you get the problem solved!!

I am so sorry to hear about the pigeon!! What a terrible experience!

Sending love and hugs to help

Shi


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I know Phil is absolutely heartbroken. I am too.
I had a vested interest in this bird as well. While this is an unimaginable thing to find, and I truly am devastated for you, Phil ... the worst of it happened to the poor little pigeon. Poor sweet little Peep. 

Those sugar ants bite...people say they don't but I've had problems with them in my kitchen this year and when they get on me they bite.


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

What a horrible thing your pigeon and you had to endure. I am very sorry this happened.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yes .. this is horrific and sad BUT .. I WILL TELL YOU FOR A FACT .. ants will go for any bird or animal that is near death. I don't know how they sense/smell/know that the creature is going to die, BUT they do. AND they absolutely swarm the poor critter just waiting to do their scavenger/clean up job. It's my experience that if ants get to a still living bird or animal, then that bird or animal is already doomed. I'm talking adult birds/animals here and not babies, but it's probably pretty much the same for babies.

Phil, I am so very sorry this happened to you .. I would suggest/agree to eradicating the ants, but, in their own way, they were only doing their "job".

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Charis said:


> I am utterly speachless.
> You're talking about Peep, aren't you?




Yes...


'Peep' is who got killed by Ants today.


I feel like I have been kicked in the stomach with this.


Just a huge ache and nausia.


I have six or seven convelesing Pigeons in Cages, and 'Peep's occasional Cage was farthest from the Bathroom ( where the Ants have been limiting themselves to for three months now with their incessant 'swarm' in there. )




Phil
l v


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Just to add from experience .. I had a duck from Sunday at the duck pond .. just totally beat to oblivion by the other ducks .. picked it up and brought it home .. dried it with a hair dryer and it rallied a bit so put it out in a separate cage in the yard. It was by then standing and nibbling at food .. two hours later was covered in ants .. I Sevin dusted the duck and eradicated the ants and also some flys that were paying attention to some of the debried areas. Duck was completely free of ants and flies and had been placed in a large air line kennel all by himself .. dead within two hours. This is kind of a trust them .. the ants know.

Terry


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Phil, I'm so very sorry. What a heartbreak for you. If it's any consolation, I like Terry have only seen ants go onto dying animals. Maybe there was something wrong with Peep you didn't know about. Please try not to beat yourself up, there's no way you could have known. Bless your heart for doing all you could to revive Peep. What a sad tragedy. I hope some of your other critters are able to bring you comfort.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Yes .. this is horrific and sad BUT .. I WILL TELL YOU FOR A FACT .. ants will go for any bird or animal that is near death. I don't know how they sense/smell/know that the creature is going to die, BUT they do. AND they absolutely swarm the poor critter just waiting to do their scavenger/clean up job. It's my experience that if ants get to a still living bird or animal, then that bird or animal is already doomed. I'm talking adult birds/animals here and not babies, but it's probably pretty much the same for babies.
> 
> Phil, I am so very sorry this happened to you .. I would suggest/agree to eradicating the ants, but, in their own way, they were only doing their "job".
> 
> Terry




Hi Terry, 



This is an interesting thing for you to say.


I was worried about 'peep' but it was vague.


His good Leg, which was not strong enough to stand on anyway, seemed to be weaker, and he seemed less vital then he was when he got here a couple days ago.


When at my Vets yesterday, he was okay-enough so as not to suggest anything going on to worry about, but, he seemed just not quite vital to me, and the Vet and I went over Nutritional deficiency things and I intended to work on those issues with 'Peep' and to begin to work on the physical therapy the Vet demonstrated for what he took to be a 'slipped Tendon' which was causing the afflicted Leg to be rigid and held out in front.


I was distracted today with almost no sleep last night, overdue other-Bird things, meds, Water and Seed things, and 'Peep' was sitting sleeping, and this seemed fine to me since others were sleeping or dozing also, especially as I had stayed up till around nine AM before I turned the lights out to get a little sleep...and I did not see any Ants before I left to go to the store and petsmart, and I know I looked well at his Seed Bowl and Water and so on..and he was sleeping.


If the Ants sensed something about him, or, if something with him had gone wrong while I was gone, or if something had gone wrong already and that was why he was 'just' sleeping when I left to go to the store, that would explain how he was just 'sitting' in his padded tray thing and looking normal and poised when I got home, and when I realized he was covered in Ants.

I would have expected him to have thrashed and protested them.




Last Winter-time, one of my PPMV 'floor Birds', one of of the 'Wanglers'...this Pigeon scooted around backward with his Head tucked under and twisted, and he scooted fast, too, and well. He was one hell of a 'scooter'.

Only problem was, he'd scoot into a corner or into someone's floor nest site, and just push HARDER instead of turning around to get out...so I checked on him often to make sure he was not in any jams.


Well, he got into the corner by where the Bathroom is on the other side of the wall there, and there were Ants swarming in that corner, and he was just jamming himself all the harder INTO the corner, trying to get out, and was covered in Ants. He might have been there like that for an hour for all I knew.


These Ants BITE and it stings too, leaves 'welts' on me and I am about as 'resistant' to insect bites as anyone could hope for...and he was red as-a-Beet, his Head puffed up like a Red Ping Pong Ball, Legs puffed up, Eye Lids swelled shut...and anyway, took me hours to get all the Ants off of him, and, he survived and was getting better within a short time...and ended up no worse for wear.


Now, he got bit something terrible, all over, his back, legs, thoughs, neck, face, everywhere, but, he was jaming himself into where the Ants were, so it was not like they'd come after him or were being aggressive.



'Peep' showed no 'redness' or swelling and was not indicating any protest or anxious discomfort other than waving his Head a little and breathing through his Beak.


I just do not have any idea what could have changed or happenned TO 'Peep' in the couple hours I was gone, or, possibly, prior to that...whle I was sleeping and after I got up, for the Ants to decide to go after him...but, maybe something did go wrong for him somehow, with his health or condition.



None of the floor Birds are sick, none of the free fliers are sick far as I can tell...in fact, I just finished a flock treatment of '4 in 1' to correct some 'off' Poops I was seeing, and the off-poops went away, and that was about four days ago that the 10 day treatment ended... there is nothing going around in here for him to get...he was eating, drinking, pooping, ( though not eating enough in my view, so ) we'd do Seed-Pops also just to be chummy, and he was in every way a beautiful sweet little Pigeon...if a little malnourished and less vital than one would prefer...


Anyway...



Your mention is interesting...too, since the Ants did not bother those convelesent Pigeons closest to the Bathroom, and some of those are pretty 'thin' and had been very seriously ill when I got them, but getting better...bad Cankers or other...there are wild Babys in-a-nest close to the Bathroom but up high, and far as I mnow, no problems there...



What the heck?



Phil
l v


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Just to add from experience .. I had a duck from Sunday at the duck pond .. just totally beat to oblivion by the other ducks .. picked it up and brought it home .. dried it with a hair dryer and it rallied a bit so put it out in a separate cage in the yard. It was by then standing and nibbling at food .. two hours later was covered in ants .. I Sevin dusted the duck and eradicated the ants and also some flys that were paying attention to some of the debried areas. Duck was completely free of ants and flies and had been placed in a large air line kennel all by himself .. dead within two hours. This is kind of a trust them .. the ants know.
> 
> Terry




Hi Terry, 


I just can not figure out what could have been wrong with 'Peep' for the Ants to have elected him.


I noticed, within a short time of me scooping him up to get the Ants off of him, the Ants had vacated his cage...no Ants eating poops, no Ants eating or carrying off Seeds, no Ants in his cage at all.


So it was not a 'swarm' from a rivulet, which got going where he was...or else they'd still be there.


Nice 'White' Urates, decent enough browen green Poops...no poop blockage issues from 'laying' as he had to do.

I know he was eating his Seeds with definite interest last night, drinking well also...and, this morning had got out of the little padded tray-thing and I set him back in and got his Wings tucked in and so on, and I did not notice him seeming in any way that was worrysome...he seeed a little weak maybe, or tired...so I did 'feel' something in the way of worry, but I do that all the time anyway with different ones, so it is sort of normal for me TO 'worry' a little.


So maybe so, as you suggest, that the Ants 'knew' something was in the ballywick of their criteria.


I have lived with these Ants the whole time I have been in this building, 22 years now, and we always got along alright, if someties they'd "swarm" for a couple days here or there, usually being on the South Wall or Bathroom.


I have had Pigeons die of course, sick ones who did not make it, and these did not get any ants on them usually, even when near to the Ants.

Some did, and I did not think anything of it, since I had no reason to suppose the Ants had killed them, but rather, that the Ants happenned to find them already deceased and were just exploring.


I do not even know if these Ants had bit 'Peep' to any great extent, I just sort of panicked and got onto getting them OFF of him as fast as possible presuming they were biting him, and of course that disturbance was encouraging them to bite ME, but I did not see many spots on 'Peep' to suggest bites as such, which tend to make a redish swelling area pretty fast.

I saw some, but nothing like the 'Wangler' had been last December...



'Peeps' skin was pale color, even the Eye lids...with just a little reddish here or there elsewhere or on his Nares and Legs a little...




Phil
l v


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Maybe he had a heart condition? However it happened he was obviously a very special little guy. I hope you're able to get some sleep tonight and rest well, Phil.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

maryjane said:


> Phil, I'm so very sorry. What a heartbreak for you. If it's any consolation, I like Terry have only seen ants go onto dying animals. Maybe there was something wrong with Peep you didn't know about. Please try not to beat yourself up, there's no way you could have known. Bless your heart for doing all you could to revive Peep. What a sad tragedy. I hope some of your other critters are able to bring you comfort.




Hi MJ, 



Well, even though I have lived with these Ants for 22 years now, I just did not know they had this propensity in their Natural History wisdoms.


I keep mulling and mulling and going back and trying to review things of last night and today...


All went well at the Vets yesterday, I spent time with 'Peep' on my lap, and also set him to nap or just hang out in a towell-rest in an open Desk Drawer under the typewriter pull out, which is a nice place to nap or be safe or just hang out, and yet see out and so on.


Chicken-youngster and 'Peep' were both in open-Lap-Towell-mode with me last night when I was on the computer, with Seeds for the both.


I put him into his Cage for over-night once I was going to hit the hay, he was eating Seeds before I turned the lights out...I slept crappy to hardly at all, got up, checked him and everyone else variously, he was sleepy, no big deal, all the 'Shop' Birds out there were quiet and sleepy-ish...Office Birds too...Chicken youngster was sleeping in the drawer-flat towell thing...

I went back to bed after a while, trying to sleep some more, finally fell asleep and slept a couple hours, got up again, everyone seemed fine, early afternoon then, 'Peep' was out of his laying-tray and I got him set back up in it.

Changed various Seed and respective Med-Water Bowls for the Cage Birds, his were fine...

Did my e-mails and computer things, some Pigeontalk, made Coffee, tried to get up to speed for the day's things to do...

Left, ran errands...got new powder formula base for 'Peep' and another Pigeon here to have for getting their Calcium or Nutrition-catch-up issues addresed...came home to the horror.


I just can not figure it out, other than, as you and Terry are saying, the Ants somehow elected him because they felt or knew he was ( already ) dieing...

He WAS 'peacefully' dieing when I found him on getting home...covered with Ants.

If Ants are biting a Bird, incidentally or however so, the Bird will tend to really protest, grunt, peck at them, kick, thrash or whatever.

He was just 'sitting' in his padded Tray as if nothing was amiss at all, which was when I did a big double-take in seeing that Ants were all over him, and he just had his Eyes closed was all, otherwise, poised nicely and no movements at all...Beak slightly open, breathing out of it.


Looking back...it did not seem like he got bit enough to kill him, especially as the 'Wangler' had got bit SO bad all over his whole Body and Head last Winter, and it hardly phased him other than he had to wait for his Eyes to un-swell in order to open them and get back to eating and pecking and preening and so on...


But 'Peep' did not even have hardly any 'red' marks to indicate bites...a few but not conspicuously many...no swelling, no redness, so it is more like the Ants were all over him, but not even biting very much, I just flipped out seeing it and assumed they were biting him...and wanted to stop them from biting him or even being in a position to do so.


Well, I will shut up and stop going over this over-and-over.


It just hit me real hard...all in all. I just feel horrible about this, especially if I did let hi down somehow in not realizing he was feeling poorly or was dieing.


I just do not know what could have been wrong with 'Peep', there is no reason I can think of for his getting sick or having any issues develop that fast. He seemed 'sleepy' was all I noticed, and contextually, that did not seem unusual under the circumstances.


He was fine one day, or fine enough anyway...then this, the next day.

Maybe he got just a couple incidental bites from figeting on a few Ants that were on him or in his Cage, and went into an anaphylectic shock for being 'sensitive' to Ant bite?


Some people can die of one Bee Sting, where someone else, it is not even worth mentioning.



Okay...


Thank you all so much for putting up with my catharcising, and also for trying to inform me of your own understandings...the things you have seen.


I just have to accept it, even though I do not understand it in a way where I can put it to rest yet for my own conscience.



Once in a great-great while, heck, 3 times maybe, ever, is all I can recall...I have had 'mysterious' deaths of Birds where I thought everything was fine with them.


I know that can happen, and it is totally bizarre and not expected...fine one day, eating,preening, pooping, gone the next, and no 'reason' for 'reason' to find.


Okay, thats it...I am done rehashing all this.


oh...cuss-words...and tears




Phil
l v


----------



## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh Phil  My heart is just breaking for you, for Peep, for Demi, and everyone that loved that little guy/girl so much. I can only imagine how torn apart you are... It's so clear through your posts and through the emails to Demi that she forwarded to me that this guy truly had a special place in your heart. Such a sweetheart. I have no theories about the ants. And I know there is little comfort is feeling that Peep is pain-free now with strong wings and legs... s/he was really loved for the time spent with all of you. I wish there were some comforting words I could give to you. I know you will resolve this within, in your own time. Know that there are many people mourning Peep's passing along with you - and you did some wonderful things for him during the time he was with you. {{{comforting hugs}}} my friend.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

omg, I'm so sorry for you and your bird. What a horrible thing to see. I don't know the situation with "Peep" but I'm sure you did the best you could for him. Sometimes there's things going on inside that just aren't picked up. 
I once had a "very large" squeeker, "Huey" When he started to stand and walk is when I noticed his legs were a mess! One was literally backwards and sticking up thru his wing, the other was straight out to the side. It was a long time ago when I didn't dare to check babies in the nest. Long story short, after countless vet visits, surgeries and leg amputation I knew something just wasn't right with him. He always just sat around comfortably. One night while sitting in my lap he went to sleep. No fuss, no signs, just didn't wake up.
I feel your pain, but you have to know that you did everything you could to help this little one.


----------



## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

although I didn't know Peep I feel terrible about you losing her. From what you and others have said Peep was special pij.

I feel that if the animals or people are put in an unliveable situation its time to take action... and its time to take care of the ants. I have had to use 'Terro' its an ant bait that they take back to their nest and will take care of the colony.

Sorry if some of you find this offensive.


----------



## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Phil,

I am so sorry to hear about Peep's death and the ants. He must have had something going on that just wasn't identifiable. His death was bad enough, but finding him as you did was just awful.

I agree with you, it is time to get rid of that ant colony, as they will seek out and kill babies in the nest and any other creature they sense can't fight them off. They will form columns that can reach anywhere in your building to take food back to their nests. Years ago I read of how ants will attack baby birds by going for their eyes. The parents can't fight them off and sit by helplessly while the ants simply devour the live baby. They are the one insect that I don't want anywhere around my birds.

I join you in swear words and tears for dear little Peeps. And a hug to you my friend for the pain of all this.

Margaret


----------



## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Phil and Terry,
I am so sorry over the losses of these poor birds to ants. You two, of all people , who cherish and protect all living creatures without question, with total love and respect, it's hard to say all I want to say, except how badly I feel for you both , and the lost little'uns.
Daryl


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you gave him the best care....please don't feel guilty or anything like that. mother Nature has her own way sometimes and it's hard to fight against it...as horrible as it is....I'am with you on getting rid of the ants.


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil,

After reading what happened to you and Peep I could hardly sleep last night.

I woke Jack up from a sound sleep, took him out of his cage, held him for a long time, giving him lots of hugs & kisses.

As you know I am very new to the world of pigeons. But I want everyone to know how my little bird, saving him, nursing him, and watching him grow into a happy little loving companion has touched my heart and changed my whole attitude regarding these precious little creatures.

My house has been a nesting place & nightly resting spot for a flock of approx. 25 birds for as long as I have lived in it. Four years now. I truly respect all living things and these birds were just a little nuisance, pooping on the patio and on cars parked in the driveway. My neighbors however had a whole different attitude towards these birds. I have had to replace 3 different windows upstairs that have been shot through with bebe gun holes. I have had the police here, which did nothing other than fill out a report. I also called animal control and the ASPCA who offered no help as these birds are considered "wild". I also found birds dead on my back lawn as well as in the street for no apparent reason. I suspect they had been poisoned.

The neighbors complaints were driving me crazy so I finally called a pigeon control person about a year ago. I didn't want the birds killed,but wanted them to do something to deter the birds from the house, make them go someplace else. The pigeon control guy put up chicken coop wire under all of the eves and against the chimney. Did it stop the birds? Absolutely not!!! These ingenuous little birds actually pulled down two of the barriers on the back roof and built new nests. It was out of one of those nests that my "Jack" fell out and was injured during one of the severe wind storms we have here.

The neighbor who I suspected was doing the shooting and poisioning has since sold the house and moved. The new residents have not complained but have put up a plastic owl on their roof. This is my flock now and "Jacks" family that he can never rejoin. I will protect these birds now with all my being.

I read the Pigeon-Talk chat everyday. The stories of the injured birds just break my heart. The happy stories warm my heart. On almost every thread there is a reassuring word from PHIL LV. We all need you here Phil. Your expertise is amazing. We all feel your heartbreak during this time. You did everything you could for little Peep and I'm sure he knew he was loved during his time with you.

I know it was presumptuous of me to suggest you get rid of the ants. I know some people find it offensive. I truly believe that to each and everything there is a time and purpose. The ants are your own personal decision. I just want you and the birds to be safe.

I hope today finds you feeling better. The birds need you and we need you and your advice.

Again, I am also here in Vegas and if I can do anything for you please let me know.

Best wishes and regards,

Louise


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You know, not to sound contradictory, but you are correct in that ants DO go after hurt and dying animals, but they also go after non-dying animals and birds, that can't get away. If they were to try to attack a healthy animal who could flee, and they do, the animal would run or fly away. If they attack an animal who has no possible way of escape, then they send out the message to the other ants in their nest, and the others join them. Perfectly healthy newborn puppies have been killed this way by ants. Simply because the owner has left them outside with the mother dog. They are too small and weak to run or defend themselves against such a savage attack. And ants can be very savage. This poor little bird couldn't flee or fight back. He could only lay there and be attacked. The mere fact that they killed him doesn't mean that he was dying. It simply means that they were able to get to him, because he had no protection against them. This is why convalescing, or injured, or the very young in our care, should never be kept in such a way, or a place where this is a possibility. They depend on us to protect them to the best of our ability. I learned this the hard way, when my aviary was gotten into by a squirrel and my birds got out. Thankfully, I got them all back. LESSON LEARNED. And in the future, I will take no chances with the safety and wellbeing of my birds. 
So..............I guess this is a lesson learned. Ants move fast, and they kill. I'm sorry for you that you had to learn that from this horrible experience. Lesson Learned.


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Phil, I'm so very sorry. It really hurts to lose a bird under such awful circumstances. We have a lot of ants in our yard and they haven't attacked a live bird but I have had the gruesome experience of seeing them swarm over a chick that died. We've always had a lot of ants in our yard and they come in the kitchen several times a year too, which drives me nuts.

Recently one of the large pest control companies came around selling their services. I've always told them "no" because we have birds and I don't want to use any toxins, but the salesman assured me they use pyrethrin-based insecticides only and would not spray within five feet of any of our bird enclosures. I agreed to give them a try and I must say I'm happy with the service. Finally, after living here twelve years, we've gotten rid of the ants. We had tried things ourselves before--putting out baits, using DE, etc., and nothing was effective. I think the pest control companies use something that destroys the ants' nest.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil

I am very sorry. Will be thinking of you.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks everyone for your posts.


I can say, that though the Ants do have their exploratory 'rivulets' which do go all over, looking for food things and so on, they have never bothered any Birds before.


I have had a lot of very frail injured or sick Birds in Cages, both in the front room and in the Workshop, where the Ants were aware of the Birds, a few Ants carrying off Seeds or Poop-fragments or one or two falling in the Water Bowls, but with none of them bothering the Birds in question.


Many Babys have been pipped in Nests on the floors here, and I have seen Ants in the Nest's materials, but never seen any problems with the Ants bothering the infants or Babys or even crawling on them at all.


Once in a while, a free flying or floor-bird Pigeon will get an Ant on it's foot, and 'kick' or peck at it...


One time, some Ants were in a Cage where a convelesing Pigeon was, and the Ants were really interested in his poops, and they were getting on his feet a little, and I just scooped him up and flicked the several Ants off and set him up in a new Cage, and eptied the old Cage out and cleaned it up with the Hose and Bleach and that was that.


So, maybe this varys with individual Ant Colonies, as for their policy or discretion about who or what they go after.


These Ants have never seemed like aggressive or preditory Creatures...and the only times I have ever seen them on anyone, prior to this, was if I had stepped on a Roach on accident, they find it and swarm over it and consume it. Yet, I see live Roaches grazing placidly or walking casually and unconcerned across the bathroom floor which has thousands of Ants on it, and they do not bother the Roach.


The feral Cat kills and eats Mice in the Shop, and often leaves a dead mouse for me...and, sometimes the Ants find it before I do, and I just let them have their find, though I might move it to a better location for them and me.


I do want the Ants out of the Bathroom..!

It has been like 'Camping' now for three Months..! If you know what I mean.


I can take a shower alright, but I have to tip toe fast to get into the Shower Pan ( which is an old Laundry Tub ) and out of the room again or else for stepping on them, they will bite my Toes and Feet.


I just always liked the Ants and did not want to hurt them, so, the inconvenience to me was no big deal...and I was waiting for it to pass..but it has not passed after three Months now! Far as the Bathroom goes.


I think Terry was right about this - the more I look back on it, the more I feel that the Ants went after 'Peep' because something had slid-sideways with his Health or condition, even though I was not seeing it.


I felt it, sort of, and noted it, but it was not conspicuous...and I figured ( in the periphery of my thoughts, that ) it would iron out once we were onto the augmented Nutrition thing for which my 'errand' had been partly about.



Anyway...


Love, 


Phil
l v


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh Phil, I am so sorry you and poor little Peep had to go through this. It is absolutely horrifying. As mentioned by Terry and MJ, my experience is that ants swarm only dying animals. They do sense when an animal is dying, that's their job.

Reti


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

little bird said:


> Jay3...Like you I am fairly new to this forum & I decided not to post my opinions anymore, but I feel I must respond to your post. Your words must have sliced thru Phil's heart like a dull rusty knife. There are only a handful of rehabbers on this forum that put as much effort & thought into their rescues. Phil is an extremely caring and sensitive man & abuses himself & his health to care for his patients. You need to walk a mile in his shoes.


Well Little bird, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion. What I said was true, whether it cuts or not. I cannot help that. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth isn't always what we like or want to hear, but sometimes we just need to hear it. Sometimes that is what helps us to learn that maybe we should do some things differently. I care more about what the poor little bird suffered needlessly, and that could have been avoided. Phil said that he had found a few ants on another bird, and he picked them off, bleached the cage, and all was well. Well, I would think that finding a few ants on another bird might have been a little clue that they were not staying in the bathroom. Don't ya think?


----------



## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I can never see anything wrong with living in harmony with the planet and it's creatures. Ants are absolutely magical in their own way, I love watching them. I also think in some cases roaches are pretty cool. Having an 'ecosystem' instead of a 'dwelling' in Phil's case has always bordered on the 'High wizard' feel to me. The magical elfish rehab guy in las vegas. lol.
Anyway I can respect his love for all creatures and I can't call that a mistake. 
Sad, heart wrenching.
Let's not troll-flame over the ashes of Phil's heart!!!


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Little Bird,

Thank you for speeking up on behalf of Phil.

I posted up earlier in this thread that I am new to this site and read Pigeon Talk every day for the past three months. The one thing that became very obvious to me early on was that there was not a thread that I read that didn't have some sort of advice or recommendation from Phil. His expertise is amazing. He has personally helped me. This man should be cannonized as the Patron Saint of Pigeons.

Phil suffered a real tragedy with the loss of Peep. Just look at all the responses and heart felt condolonces and expressions of sympathy with his grief. In light of all the good this man has done, all the people he has helped, all the great advice he has given and all the countless birds he has saved, there is no one out there that has the right to be self-righteous regarding Phil's methods, or the manner in which he has decided to live his life. 

Hang in there Phil, we all love you and need you.

Best wishes & regards,
Louise


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Last Winter-time, one of my PPMV 'floor Birds', one of of the 'Wanglers'...this Pigeon scooted around backward with his Head tucked under and twisted, and he scooted fast, too, and well. He was one hell of a 'scooter'.
> 
> Only problem was, he'd scoot into a corner or into someone's floor nest site, and just push HARDER instead of turning around to get out...so I checked on him often to make sure he was not in any jams.
> 
> ...


With all due respect to everyone here, I can't understand *why* the ant problem wasn't taken care of after the situation noted above happened. 

It doesn't matter if the ants came after the birds or the birds wandered over to the ants. In both situations, these birds were at the mercy of the ants. 

Many of us have birds that are completely helpless, if you will. It's our job to keep them safe. 

Cindy


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

little bird said:


> Jay3...Like you I am fairly new to this forum & I decided not to post my opinions anymore, but I feel I must respond to your post. Your words must have sliced thru Phil's heart like a dull rusty knife. There are only a handful of rehabbers on this forum that put as much effort & thought into their rescues. Phil is an extremely caring and sensitive man & abuses himself & his health to care for his patients. You need to walk a mile in his shoes.




Hi little bird, 



Oh, I am fine with what Jay3 was sharing...I welcome his and other's insight and ideas and experience or opinions, I am interesting in learning, and, like anyone, I just want to figure things out, try not to screw up, try to make good decisions...keep learning...


But thanks..!


No worries on any of that stuff...


Phil
l v


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

little bird said:


> Cindy, you know very well why the ants were not destroyed. Phil does not believe in killing ANY living thing. He tries to work and live around other creatures in his space. Phil has great respect for all living things, in this case it proved to be a mistake to allow the ants their space. I believe this attack on Phil for a mistake is unfair. We all make mistakes.....not long ago Charis lost her beloved chicken to mice problems....why? because she also does not kill other living beings. We make choices.....sometimes we make the bad choice.


My beloved chicken didn't die because I didn't kill the mice. My chicken died because she ate insulation. AS SOON AS I realized there was a problem...I had it fixed. I know you thought I should kill them and I explained to you at the time why I wouldn't.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Jay3 said:


> Well Little bird, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion. What I said was true, whether it cuts or not. I cannot help that. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth isn't always what we like or want to hear, but sometimes we just need to hear it. Sometimes that is what helps us to learn that maybe we should do some things differently. I care more about what the poor little bird suffered needlessly, and that could have been avoided. Phil said that he had found a few ants on another bird, and he picked them off, bleached the cage, and all was well. Well, I would think that finding a few ants on another bird might have been a little clue that they were not staying in the bathroom. Don't ya think?



Hi Jay3, 



Well, the Ants here, have been here since long before I or any Birds were here.


The incident I mentioned was like last year sometime...and his Cage needed cleaning anyway, it was not that I cleaned it because Ants had been in it, though, I understand, that Ants leave scent trails, and the removal of those was only incidental.

Otherwise, the Ants like to carry off the tiny Seeds now and then, and or carry off little poop-fragments, and that is it, they never bothered any of the Birds before.


I have no idea how many hundreds of sick and injured Pigeons over the years have been in convelesent Cages along the Walls of the front room, and many in cages in the Shop also, so, if the Ants had ever felt interested to bother them, there have been endless opportunities for years now...and plenty of opportunities still, right now.


The recent Bathroom swarms started when it rained last April or so, and for whatever reason, the Ants came up through the cracks in the concrete floor in there, instead of resuming their usual ways of things outside...and have just been constantly swarming in the Bathroom ever since...even if it waxes and wanes a little.


I have flooded them out in the Bathroom probably twenty times, fifty times even, since every time I shower it floods the floor really well ( shower is an old Pipe and Valves up high, and an old round Laundry Tub on the floor, so the Water bounces off me and so on and the Floor gets a lot of Water on it...and it does not seem to matter to them. 


Otherwise, their little 'rivulets' of exploring have always been going on, and it never amounted to any problems before...other then ME getting bit for stepping on the in the dark in bare feet and so on.


The few Ants who sometimes are in cages carrying off Seeds, if the Pigeon steps on them, they might bite in retaliation.


One could say that knowing that would provide cause for concern, in case something small like that could get out of hand, and, maybe it could...maybe that is what happenned.

But 'Peep' just looked like he was sleeping, poised, wings normal and so on.


I would think if Ants were biting a Pigeon seriously, the Pigeon would have thrashed or been objecting to it.


So that puzzles me, as for whether the Ants were on a dieing Bird, or, whether the Ants caused the Bird to be dieing.


I would like the Ants to leave, and to stay outside, since they are an inconvenience, and, possibly a hazard.


However, they have always been welcome here, same as the Spiders, same as the Crickets, same as the Roaches, same as the Birds.


I might wipe them out, I dunno...I am brooding on it...

I have asked them to leave, but it has shown no effect.




Phil
l v


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

little bird said:


> Cindy, you know very well why the ants were not destroyed. Phil does not believe in killing ANY living thing. He tries to work and live around other creatures in his space. Phil has great respect for all living things, in this case it proved to be a mistake to allow the ants their space. I believe this attack on Phil for a mistake is unfair. We all make mistakes.....not long ago Charis lost her beloved chicken to mice problems....why? because she also does not kill other living beings. We make choices.....sometimes we make the bad choice.


You may have taken it as an attack, and that is your choice. I merely stated that ants DO kill other creatures if they cannot get away. They do not merely kill dying things. I know this for a fact. I have seen it. I pointed out the danger of having them around with the birds there. And that it was a lesson learned. It wasn't an attack, it was reality. If you do not wish to see that reality, that is your choice. Now, are you through attacking me simply because you do not approve of my comment? Or would you like to go on and on with this nonsense for the remainder of the evening? We can simply agree to disagree.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Another Time Out, Please ..*

I'm just getting buried in little birds coming in but would still love to be your best Admin/Mod .. just can't pull that off right now.

Let's all start playing nice in this thread (and I personally know a LOT about this thread) and hold on until I can deal with it tomorrow.

If you don't want to do it this way, then please feel free to call me and rush right over to help with the little ones here .. there's no shortage.

Otherwise .. it's tomorrow .

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> With all due respect to everyone here, I can't understand *why* the ant problem wasn't taken care of after the situation noted above happened.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the ants came after the birds or the birds wandered over to the ants. In both situations, these birds were at the mercy of the ants.
> 
> ...



Hi Cindy, 


Well, this was last December, and the 'Wangler' in question went 'after' the Ants by incidental to his manner of 'scooting' and jamming himself into places.


All the other free fly or 'floor Birds' never had a problem, and, the Ants never came after anyone...never bothered any 'floor-Babys' in their Floor Nests or anything...and there was a floor Nest five feet from that corner for a long time.


If there had ever been any indications that the Ants were coming after vulnerable Birds, or Babys, I would have put a stop to it and got some Ant Spray or whatever and done them in.


The Birds in free rove understand not to mess with the Ants if the Ants are in a corner or whatever, and, it was rare the Ants ever were, really...

In Nature, Birds in fact do what is called 'Anting', where the Bird presents hiself to the Ants, the Ants cover him, and the Bird lifts it's Wings and so on, is patient with the situation, and, after a little while, the Ants leave, and the Bird flys off.



The 'Wangler' was fine soon after, and it never seemed like any big deal to me other than I loved the 'Wangler' and was sorry he'd gotten bit so uch in his mis-adventure. And he never would have got into a problem if he had not been jamming himself tail first and crouching with his Head tucked under, into the Ants 'corner wall river' thing.


Anyway...


I am thinking about what to do...


And I do appreciate everyones feed back and ideas and insights.


I am fine with the discssion...


No one has hurt my feelings in their expressions of concern or interest.





Phil
l v


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Phil, posting at two in the morning (last night)is not getting more rest!  Seriously, I hope today has been a bit better for you and that you are feeling the good thoughts and prayers being said for you today. Hopefully you will get some good rest tonight and tomorrow will be a new day.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Cindy,
> 
> * *Well, this was last December, and the 'Wangler' in question went 'after' the Ants by incidental to his manner of 'scooting' and jamming himself into places.*
> 
> ...


* That's my point, Phil. Wrangler, being a PMV pij, was unable to manuever properly & got himself in a 'harm's way' situation without even knowing it.

** No, of course he wouldn't have. However he *was* physically challenged & the ants being there presented an unfavorable situation to where he became the victim.

Cindy


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Cindy,
> 
> 
> Well, this was last December, and the 'Wangler' in question went 'after' the Ants by incidental to his manner of 'scooting' and jamming himself into places.
> ...


Phil, I have personally observed the Anting phynomin many times with Starlings. It's absolutely fascinating. They don't actually ALLOW the ants to COVER them rather... they pick up an ant with their beak and rub the ant all over their feathers. This is done in a frenzey. The theory is that the ants have something on their bodies, that is a natural insect repellent and that's why the birds do what they do. I have observed this with Starlings, Jays and Crows...never with pigeons.


----------



## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Phil,

I have been contemplating your ant/bathroom problem. It would be a win/win situation if you could find a way to get them to relocate. An old Asian method is to use chalk to make a barrier where they are not wanted. They will not cross a chalk line. Probably someone on this forum knows more about it than me. I used it in the past by drawing a thick line of chalk(I just used regular blackboard chalk) around a place they were entering and it seemed to work. Might be worth a try. One of the reasons they are coming in is the bathroom is where they are accessing water. You might flood them out, but you are also, to them, the river with lifegiving floods. I'd try drying the floor after a shower, and then putting a line of ground up chalk around the edges and all along and in the cracks where they are coming in and any other access points you can see.

Margaret


----------



## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

The birds who use ants as insect repellant are getting formic acid from the ants. There are some mammals (and I can't remember what/who,) and they will use either millipedes or centipedes (again, I can't remember) and rub them on their fur without killing the insect, for the same reason. 
Daryl


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

I agree with Margaret that getting the ants to relocate would be the best solution. At the risk of sounding woo-woo to some people, I'm going to say that lots of people have good success negotiating such moves by using an animal communicator. (I've never had a situation like Phil's, but I have had very successful communication experiences.) 

Anyone interested in more info can write me privately.

Jennifer


----------



## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

pigeonmama said:


> The birds who use ants as insect repellant are getting formic acid from the ants. There are some mammals (and I can't remember what/who,) and they will use either millipedes or centipedes (again, I can't remember) and rub them on their fur without killing the insect, for the same reason.
> Daryl




Hi Daryl I'm sure they used millipedes because centipedes are venomous
when they bite. Millipedes won't biye but do spray formic acid as a defense.


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I am new to this forum and maybe have spoken out of line on this thread.

I want to apologize to anyone who found my comments inappropriate.

I have become much to emotionally involved in this and realize it is best to leave this situation to the experts.

Sorry to all.

Louise


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you everyone for being the lovely people that you are. 

Terry


----------



## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Terry,
What are all of the babies who are keeping you busy right now?
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Some of the previous threads reminded me of a book that had a very profound affect on me.

Although written as fiction, the author, Marlo Morgan, says her story is true. The book is called, *Mutant Message Down Under.* The author relates her adventures and what she learns when taking a journey with the Real People (Aborigines) in the Outback.

One of the chapters, Hat for the Outback, tells how The People use flies and other flying insects as body "cleansers." 

Whether you believe or not, this book is absolutely captivating and well worth the read! I find myself re-reading this book over and over...

Love and Hugs

Shi


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Margarret said:


> Phil,
> 
> I have been contemplating your ant/bathroom problem. It would be a win/win situation if you could find a way to get them to relocate. An old Asian method is to use chalk to make a barrier where they are not wanted. They will not cross a chalk line. Probably someone on this forum knows more about it than me. I used it in the past by drawing a thick line of chalk(I just used regular blackboard chalk) around a place they were entering and it seemed to work. Might be worth a try. One of the reasons they are coming in is the bathroom is where they are accessing water. You might flood them out, but you are also, to them, the river with lifegiving floods. I'd try drying the floor after a shower, and then putting a line of ground up chalk around the edges and all along and in the cracks where they are coming in and any other access points you can see.
> 
> Margaret



Hi Magaret, 



Thank you...



I realized last night 'why' they have been swarming in the Bathroom for so long, and not subsided.


Last April or so, there were practically no Ants in side here, or, rarely, one little 'swarm' would occur on a wall or corner, and that was that...same as it ever was.

A little 'swarm' of 'Debutants' andtheir escourts and ancillaries, and then they'd subside...a few widely seperated little 'Seed' carrier ones, and overall, hardly worth noting at all.


However, two things happenned last April -


They were all over outside, where their 'swarms' for Debutants and so on were occuring one 'swarm' here, another there, and so on...and, it rained pretty good for a while and flooded them out.


They began swarming in the Bathroom then, pro-tem, which I figured was temporary too, as they awaited the Earth to dry out, outside, to go back out there.


To go 'back' out there,they of course would have to use their underground tunnels.


My neighbor, on his own volition, with no asking me, poured quite a few gallons of old stale Gasolene, into every outside Ant tunnel egress he could find...thus, discouraging them from being able TO get out via any of those tunnels, or via new tunnels being made through the permiated Earth in those areas, and, I think, dooming the Ants and me, to their 'Bathroom' swarming, in their and my frustration.


If my neighbor had NOT poured all that old Gasolene into all their outside egresses, I am confident their presence in the Bathroom would be minimal and hardly worth noticing...for their having long since left to be back outside.


Darn it, things can get goofed up sometimes...



Phil
l v


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jenfer said:


> I agree with Margaret that getting the ants to relocate would be the best solution. At the risk of sounding woo-woo to some people, I'm going to say that lots of people have good success negotiating such moves by using an animal communicator. (I've never had a situation like Phil's, but I have had very successful communication experiences.)
> 
> Anyone interested in more info can write me privately.
> 
> Jennifer



Hi Jennifer, 



Good mention...



I think the Ants are 'stuck' in their situation, because of what my neighbor did.


However, I would love to have anyone able, to ask the Ants about this.


Phil
l v


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

lwerden said:


> I am new to this forum and maybe have spoken out of line on this thread.
> 
> I want to apologize to anyone who found my comments inappropriate.
> 
> ...




You are fine with me Louise, just so you know...


Phil
l v


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonmama said:


> Terry,
> What are all of the babies who are keeping you busy right now?
> Daryl


Sparrows from naked, eyes closed up to nearly grown, an assortment of baby pigeons and doves, and some starlings in assorted stages of becoming real birds. The sparrows have started round two of the season, so baby bird season is a long way from being over around here.

Terry


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Can't resist posting this.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good lord, you must be busy.


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Can't resist posting this.


Is that for Terry...Daryl...or Phil......or all three????


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Good lord, you must be busy.


Personally I think that Terry must be at the very least identical triplets with the same name, she manages to cope with so much at the same time.

Cynthia


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Personally I think that Terry must be at the very least identical triplets with the same name,
> *she manages to cope with so much at the same time.*
> Cynthia


I wish I had *half* that much energy.  

Cindy


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I know..!


I am at my elastic limit with just a handfull of injured/sick or Baby Birds...


I wish I had an extra set of 'triplets' of me...AND a 'set' of ohhhhhhhhh, say, of a young-ish Natasha Kinsky, or Ava Gardener too.


Lol...


Where at least one of the Natasha ( or Ava, heck, both even, ) 'triplets' could Cook...do laundry, and give good Back rubs also.


We'd have things covered pretty well then I recon...




Phil
l v


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

HAH! You all are so very nice and so very funny! Trust me .. I'm a tired old lady by the end of most days (and likely to be a bit cranky by days end too)! I forgot to mention all the ducklings that are camping out at my place .. must be about 25 or so. Fortunately, they are quite able to fend for themselves for the most part. 

Terry


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

little bird said:


> Is that for Terry...Daryl...or Phil......or all three????


LOL, for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

For me too???? Aawwww...I didn't think anybody cared!!


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

little bird said:


> For me too???? Aawwww...I didn't think anybody cared!!


Absolutely! You're my bud!


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

thanks, Maggie, you made my day.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

little bird said:


> For me too???? Aawwww...I didn't think anybody cared!!


How wrong you are! You're a very special member and one who has helped many, myself included. You're the best! 

Terry


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Thank you, Terry, I'm deeply touched.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

That's the great thing about this site...WE ARE FAM-I-LY!!! 

One for all and all for one!!

LOVE and HUGS

Shi


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

mr squeaks said:


> That's the great thing about this site...WE ARE FAM-I-LY!!!
> 
> One for all and all for one!!
> 
> ...


AMEN, Sista!!


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Since we are passing out love, hugs, togetherness, and good thoughts.......I'm sending some to Phil (pdpbison) too.
After all....this thread is about Phil.....not me.


----------



## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

omg Phil im sorry to hear about your little peep. Its the first time ive read this thread. im just wondering if you've done anything about the ants? 

i wouldnt worry about the neighbour, pouring gasoline, into the any nests they will make more. ive heard about the chalk before, never tired it but id suggest giving it ago. and if its possible push blue tack into there holes, i used this method to keep them out of my bedroom. 

I do think you need to get rid of the ant population, this is not the first time ive heard about ants killing animals. we have terrible problems here with fireants, killing lizards and snakes that are perfectly healthy. and i seen on one of Steve Irwins documentrys, ants attacking a croc, fortunetly the croc got into the water, but he said sick crocs are regually killed by ants. its not something people think about alot. i also seen a documentry on ants, a long time ago, but i remember them saying, ants send out scouts to find food, and when one comes accross, "food" they let off a scent which attracts the swarms. 

Hope this helps, in some way mate. 

Cheers


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Noisy_minor said:


> omg Phil im sorry to hear about your little peep. Its the first time ive read this thread. im just wondering if you've done anything about the ants?
> 
> I do think you need to get rid of the ant population, *this is not the first time ive heard about ants killing animals*.
> 
> ...


It wouldn't surprise me if some animals (pigeons, in this case) go into shock, which could cause death, when they are overpowdered by ants & can't escape. 

I've seen some of the ferals dancing violently in our backyard. When I go to check on them I notice they have walked over a colony of ants. *I've* walked over a colony of ants. Although I suspect it's much easier for me to get the ants off than it would be for a pigeon, I've been bitten in the process & it hurts like the devil. They're brutal. 

Cindy


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cindy,

THat is right, it is much the same as fly strike (maggots), which my little dove Maggie experienced. The pain and toxins sent her into shock and without prompt action she would have died. You have to remove the cause as quickly as possible (flushing with saline in the case of maggots), give painkillers and treat for shock. Fly strike also requires antibiotics.

Cynthia


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

little bird said:


> For me too???? Aawwww...I didn't think anybody cared!!


Don't you think that for one moment. It's absolutely not true.

reti


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Thank you Reti...you're a love to say that.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I have eliminated the Ants from the Bathroom, so that there are no longer any in there.


There are none anywhere else, other than a few small areas quite a ways outside to the East...or some very few ones here and there with no 'rivulets' or trails to be found.


I decided they were stuck in their situation oweing to how my neighbor poured all that stale Gasolene into their immediate outside tunnels, and since no other resolution seemed imaginable or practical, I distributed Boric Acid Powder everywhere in the Bathroom and in areas immediate to it, and see no Ants whatsoever now...not even dead ones.



Phil
l v


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Phil,

So glad to hear that you and the birds are safe from the ants.

Enjoy your reclaimed bathroom!!!

Regards,
Louise


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I am so glad you found a repellant. I know how highly you prize ALL living things and not finding them dead must have been a relief.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> * *I have eliminated the Ants from the Bathroom, so that there are no longer any in there.*
> 
> There are none anywhere else, other than a few small areas quite a ways outside to the East...or some very few ones here and there with no 'rivulets' or trails to be found.
> 
> ...


* Your pijjies will be happy about that, Phil. 

** You most likely *won't* see any dead ones as they carry their findings (whatever they may be) back to the colony to share with the others.

I got to thinking about my backyard buddies having to contend with all the ants in the yard. The've become accustom to me doing my best to keep them healthy *and* safe from *all* predators. Not wanting to let them down, I did a little research this morning. I just found this interesting site. 
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/980528a.cfm

I like the Ground Cinnamon method. Kid & pet friendly. Can't get much better than that. 

Cindy


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Interesting info. Lots of ideas. I like the cinnamon idea too. Safe for everyone. Thanks for sharing it, as I'm sure most people can use these ideas.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> Interesting info. Lots of ideas.
> 
> * *I like the cinnamon idea too. Safe for everyone. *
> 
> ** *Thanks for sharing it, as I'm sure most people can use these ideas*.


Yep! 

I also like the Spearmint method. 

** I know I can, especially in the backyard. 

Cindy


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I like the cinnamon idea. Will give it a try. I have the occasional ant come in through the balcony door and they go straight to my pets food. 

Reti


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, thanks for the link. One word of caution on the mint. Most mint plants spread like crazy, at least the ones I have had in our herb garden, and will take over almost anything in their path. I finally stopped growing them. There are probably some that are not as invasive but I did want to mention this. They do smell wonderful.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Cindy, thanks for the link. One word of caution on the mint. Most mint plants spread like crazy, at least the ones I have had in our herb garden, and will take over almost anything in their path. I finally stopped growing them. There are probably some that are not as invasive but I did want to mention this. They do smell wonderful.


 You are right Maggie, they do spread like crazy but it may be worth it because besides smelling wonderful, they are fabulous in sun tea. I have such fond memories of my grandmother putting a glass gallon jug of water and tea bags out in the sun with mint leaves mixed right in. At the end of the day she would mix in some fresh lemon juice, sugar and ice and it was so refreshing. I haven't thought about that in years and years...what a pleasant memory.


----------

