# Stanley is loosing weight!



## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

We took Stanley home this past Saturday for our Thanksgiving break, it is about a 3 hour drive (we have made this drive about 4 times now). He does fairly well with the drive, although occasionally he does vomit on the way home a little due to car sickness (he does not vomit outside the car). 

On Friday, the day before we left, I weighed him and he was about 385 g. At home he stays at my boyfriend, Josh's, house. One of the first nights he was home, the heater turned off and the temperature in his room dropped down to the 50's (our house at school is usually at or around 65/70 degrees). Could this have caused him to burn more fat and lead to his weight loss? 

His behavior has not changed, he is still very active and flies around the room, however, he has been consuming less of his food. His poops are green and sometimes blackish with the white dollup. Today I weighed him and he is down to 358 g. 

He did eat some food because I watched him today but that was after shaking his food container to keep his attention. Is it possible that because I am not around him that much and coupled with the stress of a new environment he is not eating normally? He seems very distracted with exploring the new room. Or do you think it could be something more serious?

Should I be worried?? Any input is greatly appreciated.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi StanelyPidge09,

You are obviously concerned enough to be posting here, so that should be a good indicator to you that in your gut you feel something is amiss.

I have read your post a few times and while I think I am clear, I do want to be certain. When you say you took Stanley "home", to me "home" usually means where I myself personally live, do you really mean to another town where your family lives. Therefore, you and your boyfriend are from the same town/city and when there, Stanley stays at Josh's family's house? Do I have this right?

If Stanley has done this trip a number of times in the past with no odd behavior and now with this trip his behavior is concerning you, I don't think you are being overly concerned and it is something to keep an eye on.

The droppings you describe are associated with a non eating bird, where when they are not consuming food they produce bile droppings that look green to green so dark, that they could be taken for black.

If this continues longer than the next day or so, I would most defiantly think a visit to the vets would be in order. They can sometimes go off their food for a few days when introduced to new settings, but again you seem to indicate this is not all totally new to him. Is he drinking enough? Does he drink from the same water dish and are you seeing it's level decrease throughout the day from him drinking?

When are you returning your "home", or how much longer will Stanley be in this different space? How long has it been since you feel Stanley has really eaten a proper meal? If you feel his crop does it feel fairly flat, like it is empty or does it fill puffy at all like there in content in there?

Karyn


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Birds do not like changes and this is stressful for Stanley. Keep on monitoring him and ACV in the water and garlic should help keeping him healthy. Try to be more with him to help him overcame this situation.


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Hi Karyn, 

Yes your right. Home is where both of our families are, our permanent address (about 10 minutes away from each other). Right now, Josh and I are at college and live in an apartment about 3 hours away from our families. 

Stanley has made the trip home (to our permanent address) with us and stayed at Josh's family's house before but only for 2 days at the most and we did notice some decreased eating but we were never there long enough for him to lose weight over it. When we return to our apartment at school he continues to eat very well.

This time around he has been at josh's family home going on 4 days.

Stanley is drinking normally out of the same dish.

We will be returning to our appt. Sunday morning, Nov. 29th. 

It is hard to tell the last time I think he ate a proper meal only because he is staying at Josh's house and I am only with him a few hours a day. But I would say Friday, the day before we left our appt would have been his last solid meal. The day of of our drive, before we leave, we do not feed him (depending on when we leave of course) because he will often vomit if he does from motion sickness. So Saturday he did not eat very well. Could this have affected his weight? Sunday and Monday he did eat but as we did not think he was acting out of the ordinary we did not strictly monitor his intake.

It wasn't until today that after weighing him I noticed that his weight had dropped and that putting two and two together he had been consuming less.

I did check his throat and it was clear and pink. No nasal discharge. He is flying well and is active and drinking well. 

I don't know if this is silly or not but seeing as he considers me his mate could he be upset because I am not there, with him, as often as I am when we are at my appt?


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Plamenh, I will add the ACV and garlic to his water. Do I need to space out adding ACV and garlic to his water (have a day of clear water in between the ACV and garlic water days), or can I add garlic one day and then ACV the next day?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

That's right he needs clear water day or two between ACV and garlic.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just a possible FYI, SP...about traveling in the car.

I have read that it's possible the pijies will _not_ vomit IF they can see out the windows. Is there any way Stanley could be contained but still be high enough to see out? Of course, he would need some type of wire cage rather than an "enclosed" carrier.

I noticed that Mr. Squeaks would vomit when I took him to his Vet. He was in a cat carrier and the Vet was about 30 min. or so away. Unfortunately, I didn't know about letting him see out so have not personally checked it out.

Hope this helps!! Sending Love, Hugs and Scritches to Stanley from

Shi/Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Mr. Squeaks, I was wondering if that would help. I will definitely try that when we travel back to school this weekend. Thank you!! 

Plamenh- Will do! Another question though about the garlic. How much water do I need to soak the garlic clove in over night? And do I need to crush the garlic in any way or just throw it in the water? Thank you!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I usually crush a clove of garlic just before putting it in the water, and that's a 1/2 gallon.

You should try some good probiotics also-if you haven't, it really helps them to assimilate their food better and gain weight.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

385g and 358g are very similar, are you sure you did not write them down wrong? ... if not I would not worry too much at this point as you may make your bird a basket case just from you being stressed, animals and birds are very intune with human behaviour, I have seen some that are quite toxic, IMO


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you Trees Gray. I added ACV to his water today and Friday I will do his probiotics and Sunday garlic water. 

Spirit wings, he is 358 g. but you are very right. He can definitely tell I am stressed so I will try to just breathe  I feel like such a new mom, worrying about every little thing. I have had lots of pets before but never a bird so its all new territory. 

Today I brought Stanley to my family house where he will stay for the remainder of the week, that way I can spend more time with him. Hopefully this helps him to feel more comfortable. It would be nice for him to get used to these new surroundings, especially since Josh and I are graduating from Penn State and will be moving back home in December.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi StanelyPidge09,

Please keep us up to date on how his droppings continue look.

Karyn


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Stanley's droppings have been looking better, they are a more green/brown color (compared to the jungle green before) but they are still small. I will post a picture soon.

He has not lost anymore weight today but he is also not gaining any weight either. Should I expect him to gain the weight back over the next couple days or will it take a couple weeks?

Thank you everyone for your advice, we greatly appreciate all input!


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

Gosh I hope he feels better! I'll be praying for you guys.


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you Columba livia!

Update: This morning Stanley's droppings had bits of grit in them, that looked like small crystals... What does that mean?


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Stanley's weight is about 345 g. He seems to be fluctuating around 345 to 355 g. Is it normal for a stressed pigeon to lose 30 or 40 g. and still be alright?

I also read in another post that someone had given their pigeon honey when they were sick/losing weight. Would that help Stanley? Also I don't normally give him safflower seeds and peanuts but should I add some of those to the diet for added energy?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi StanelyPidge09,

The best way to get as much feedback as possible on Stanley's droppings would be to post a few good, clear, close-up photos of his droppings for all to see.

Although not where you would like it to be, 345-355 grams is not a bad weight at all for a feral, and there are reasons that could account for the weight fluctuation, the time he was weighed and so on, lets see if he continues to lose weight, or stays in the range you just posted (or even gains with the treats). I see no problem in treating him with some safflower seeds and peanuts. With the peanuts, I know most people just give them whole, but when I give them as a treat I always break up the whole peanuts into quarters and the half peanuts in to half again. Although its never happened to me, I am always nervous about a whole peanut causing some kind of blockage somewhere, so to ease my concerns I do break them up, plus any real sharp corners I round over with a finger nail (yes, I know, my birds are spoiled).

I would hold off on the honey right now and try the treats first and see how he does. All of my birds are just crazy for raw, unsalted, shelled sunflower seeds, so you might want to try these as well as a treat.

Karyn


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Update: 

Josh and I chose to take Stanley to the vet today. We were planning on taking him to the vet in January anyways so we figured hey, why not. The vet said he looked healthy; his throat, nose, etc. were all clean and clear. She said that based on his weight now, 350 g., he was probably chubby before at 385 g. She listened to his heart and lungs and all sounded great. She did see some suspicious stuff in his droppings so we sent a few samples to the lab; the results will be in Monday. 

Our vet did say that she does not recommend giving pigeons grit more then once a month because it can cause blockages. I thought this was interesting seeing as most of us feed our pigeons grit at least once a week. Any thoughts on this?

But all together, it was a good visit. He was quite a riot at the vet. The staff got such a kick out of him showing off and strutting around like he owned the place. Stanley, Josh, and I will be returning to State College, PA tomorrow so I am sure Stan will be VERY happy.

PS. Thank you Karyn for the advice, I will start to incorporate some of those as treats to add some cushion


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## Tamara21 (Jun 24, 2009)

Oh my....how is Stanley??? I was offline for a few weeks and found this...is everything okay?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Has Stanley ever been treated for worms?


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Hi Tamara21!! Stanley is doing well now, but he stopped eating besides maybe 5-10 g. a day after we bought him to our parents place for Thanksgiving break (9 days). He lost 40 g. in about 2 days and Josh and I were pretty worried. We took him to the vet and his physical went well but we are still waiting on hearing back on his fecal results. Now we are back at school and he is eating great, he was just so excited to be back at "his" house he just flew around all day. He is just so spoiled. It makes me nervous though because we are graduating college and moving at the end of Dec. and he just did so poorly with the last transition home, I don't want him to go through that all again.

MSFreeBird, No he has not been wormed before. We should get his fecal results back today and see if that is necessary. Is it advised to worm on a regular basis (ex. every year, etc)?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

StanelyPidge09 said:


> Hi Tamara21!! Stanley is doing well now, but he stopped eating besides maybe 5-10 g. a day after we bought him to our parents place for Thanksgiving break (9 days). He lost 40 g. in about 2 days and Josh and I were pretty worried. We took him to the vet and his physical went well but we are still waiting on hearing back on his fecal results. Now we are back at school and he is eating great, he was just so excited to be back at "his" house he just flew around all day. He is just so spoiled. It makes me nervous though because we are graduating college and moving at the end of Dec. and he just did so poorly with the last transition home, I don't want him to go through that all again.
> 
> *MSFreeBird, No he has not been wormed before. We should get his fecal results back today and see if that is necessary. Is it advised to worm on a regular basis (ex. every year, etc)?*


Are they doing a culture for bacteria or a float for parasites? 
I don't know the circumstances how you acquired him, but if he was feral it's a good idea to worm them.
I worm mine routinely 3 times a year, and they always pass roundworms.
I was told (by many vets and research online) that once you have roundworms (in a large group of birds) it is next to impossible to completely clear them, so they should be on a worming schedule, --You'll probably get many different views on this


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Hi MSFreeBird, I am almost positive the vet mentioned doing both a culture for bacteria and a parasite check. I adopted him when he was about 20 days old from a Wildlife rehab center. He had fallen out of his nest and injured his wing and they thought it may have caused nerve damage so now he is with me  He is the only pigeon I have and is not around other birds. Would I be able to order wormer from a pigeon supplier or is this something I need to obtain from my vet? Thank you!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

StanelyPidge09 said:


> Hi MSFreeBird, I am almost positive the vet mentioned doing both a culture for bacteria and a parasite check. I adopted him when he was about 20 days old from a Wildlife rehab center. He had fallen out of his nest and injured his wing and they thought it may have caused nerve damage so now he is with me  He is the only pigeon I have and is not around other birds. Would I be able to order wormer from a pigeon supplier or is this something I need to obtain from my vet? Thank you!!


When you get the results back that should tell you more. Is he an avian vet?
I use pyrantal (strongid) for my first time young birds when they come out of the nest. (your vet should have this, they use it for puppies and kittens) *.*12ml (tiny bit right in the mouth)for a young bird, repeat in 14 days. Very safe and effective. Later I rotate pyrantal, then ivomec.
With just 1 bird you might not have to worm more than once a year, I have 80 or so, so its harder to clean up ALL the poop daily  That's why mine are on a schedule.


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Yes, she is an avian vet, although she does not see pigeons very often, more exotic birds such as parrots. 

They just called with the results. All she mentioned in her voicemail is that he is negative for both coccidiosis and nematodes.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

StanelyPidge09 said:


> Yes, she is an avian vet, although she does not see pigeons very often, more exotic birds such as parrots.
> 
> They just called with the results. All she mentioned in her voicemail is that he is negative for both coccidiosis and nematodes.


So that's the float results. Culture and sensitivity takes a little longer.
Is Stanley eating better now that he is back home? Has he lost anymore weight? Activity level?


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Yes, he is eating much better, he even ate his whole dish of food today. Yay! He has already gained more weight and is about 366 g. He appears to be very happy to be back at our apartment at school. As soon as we walked in the door on Sunday he flew around to each of his perches/favorite landing spots for about an hour straight and would occasionally jump on our heads to say hi and then he gobbled down a bunch of food and water like he was never stressed out or upset at all. His droppings are back to normal size and color. Its like he was just spoiled and wanted to tell us that he was unhappy at my parent's house by throwing a temper tantrum 

Do you think he will have a hard time transitioning to my parents house again, when we move back in for good at the end of December? If so, do you know of any way to make this transition smoother in the future?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

StanelyPidge09 said:


> Yes, he is eating much better, he even ate his whole dish of food today. Yay! He has already gained more weight and is about 366 g. He appears to be very happy to be back at our apartment at school. As soon as we walked in the door on Sunday he flew around to each of his perches/favorite landing spots for about an hour straight and would occasionally jump on our heads to say hi and then he gobbled down a bunch of food and water like he was never stressed out or upset at all. His droppings are back to normal size and color. Its like he was just spoiled and wanted to tell us that he was unhappy at my parent's house by throwing a temper tantrum
> 
> Do you think he will have a hard time transitioning to my parents house again, when we move back in for good at the end of December? If so, do you know of any way to make this transition smoother in the future?


He should do OK, just try to keep his routine as normal as possible. Birds like routine, and a change throws them off. The surroundings (when you move back) will be different, but if you keep his routine the same he'll get use to the new surroundings, especially if your there with him.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Glad to hear Stanley is back to his old self.

Once you make the move back, I should expect Stanley to transition without too much drama. Once you are both there, his regular dishes are there and it starts to feel like "home", he should settle right in.

Take care,

Karyn


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you everyone!! I REALLY appreciate all your advice!


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

I just saw this thread -- and I'm so glad Stanley is doing better! It's educational for us, too, as new pigeon people . . . understanding our bird's need for consistency and routine.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I just read this too and found it very interesting. So, how is little Stanley doing today?


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## StanelyPidge09 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you Valeri and Victor! Stanley is doing well. He is back to his normal curious bossy food-loving self  He has gained weight since we moved back to school, he is about 365 - 370g. which I am happy with. His results came back negative for parasites, worms, bacteria, etc. which is great! Meaning that he lost all that weight due being uncomfortable in his new surroundings which isn't good but is fixable and at least my baby isn't sick!  He definitely gave us a scare but we have learned a lot from the experience and at least we have found a great avian vet in the process and we know our baby is healthy! 

BTW, Mr. Squeaks had mentioned earlier that if you let your pigeon look out the window/look out his cage while you are driving they don't vomit. Well we tried it on the way back to Penn State last week and it works!! Stanley always vomits on his car rides and is very skittish but this time he was soo much calmer he even spread out his wings to sunbathe in his cage while we were driving! He didn't seem the least bit concerned about the drive so THANK YOU Mr. Squeaks!!


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