# A cardinal in distress



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I realize that this is a pigeon outlet, but I thought I would share this with everyone and I know that the majority of you here are open minded with all creatures.Yesterday at noon, our cat(one we rescued 5 years ago)brought in a cardinal into the kitchen thru our doggie door.The male red bird was screeching loudly.This sound caught my attention while I was cleaning my pigeon cage.At first I imagined it was my boy watching the nature channel or my daughter playing a video game.I decided to see what was going on when I discovered "Lil Kitty" had a red bird in its mouth.I yelled for him to let go of the bird, which he did.The cardinal flew into the living room.I saw feathers and blood drops on the floor.Knowing the deathly impact that cat saliva has on our feathered friends, we knew that the bird had to be caught.It took us 20 minutes to catch him, as he was very fast and we did not want to inflict anymore injury than necessary on him.My wife Bev and I placed him in a spare cage and he seemed pretty lively. Bev suggested we take him to our vet to be treated.There was an opening for 3:30 but I had to be at work by then, so she said she would handle it.The vet who treated our pigeon last spring for bb wounds looked at him but choose not to get him out of his cage to prevent further trauma to the bird, but gave her some anti-biotics to sprinkle in the seed and water for a start.Bev phoned me at work a couple of times to give me up-dates on him, and he seemed active and fine.Unfortunately moments before I got home, he passed on.I found him sitting on the corner of his cage quietly and seemed at peace.I knew then our efforts had failed.  This morning we explained to our children the "Red" was too sick to get better and God took him to heaven.The kids each held him and said their goodbyes.My three year old,as he held him brought him to his chest as if to hug him and said,"poor Red,Red die,bye bye Red."It was a sad day.~Victor


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Victor,

I'm so sorry you and your family had to go through all this, and despite your best efforts, have a sad ending.
I am a big believer in keeping pet cats indoors to avoid just such a situation. It is safer for the cat and safer for all the birds and small animals that the cat naturally wants to "play" with. But everyone has their own opinion on the subject and that is just mine.
Regardless of how or why it happened, it was very nice of you and your family to go to such lengths to try to help poor "Red." Your children will grow up to be very caring and compassionate people with the fine example you and your wife provide for them.

Thanks,
Linda


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How sad that poor little Red didn't make it. I am so sorry you and your kids had to go through this.
I do want to thank you, your wife and kids for being caring people with all creatures. It was very nice of you to take little Red to the vet, I wish he could have done something to save him.
Anyways, it's too late now.
Thank you again.

Reti


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## phantom (Dec 10, 2004)

You did everything that you could have for the bird. He may have had internal injuries, or he may have succumbed to the infection caused by the saliva, or he may have been sick and that is why the cat caught him. Anyway, we do what we can and go on to the next one that needs us.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

arty said:


> PERIOD,DONT BLAME THE CAT.....HEAD FOR THE OWNER OF THE CAT.
> CATS ARE NOT PART OF THE NATURAL FOOD CHAIN!
> CATS ARE RESPONSABLE FOR 65% OF WILDLIFE DEATHS.
> AS LONG AS THERE ARE HUMANS THAT CONTINUE TO THINKS ITS OKAY FOR TABBY THE CAT TO BE FREE TO WREAK HAVOC ON WILDLIFE THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A PROBLEM...ALWAYS.
> ...


First,I don't think yelling is necessary as I can tell by your choice of all capital letters.Let me set you straight.I was not blaming the cat.He was merley doing what is instinctively correct in his cat mind.He is very well fed, so it must be for sport.The owner of the cat is ME! We do our best to safeguard the squirrels and wild birds outside but there is only so much a person can do.I live in a city community where every third home has a feline.Our cat which we rescued 5 years ago was an outdoor cat, and spends much of his time in the climate control comfort, but is allowed liberty as do the dogs to come and go as he pleases.I love all animals including my pigeon, however the cat has been in our family a lot longer than the bird.For you to judge me when you don't even know me is wrong.I certainly don't want you preaching to me about being responsible.I have always enjoyed your postings and realize you had some bad times in the past, but you need to keep your temper and pre-judging attitude in the coop.


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## tina keller (Aug 14, 2003)

I'm sorry about the cardinal! My neighbor's cat used to be a bird hunter, and his solution was to put a bell on the cat's collar to give the bird a warning if the cat was approaching. 

Tina


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*I appreciate that!*



tina keller said:


> I'm sorry about the cardinal! My neighbor's cat used to be a bird hunter, and his solution was to put a bell on the cat's collar to give the bird a warning if the cat was approaching.
> 
> Tina


Hi Tina! I really appreciate the helpful advice that you contributed.I am thankful that you did not pass judgement on me and my situation with the cardinal.What you did offer was not criticism, but a very good idea!We intend to make a trip to PetCo and get one for Lil Kitty so that he can have his rights to come and go as he has been used to and the birds outside are given a heads up.Again,thank you!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Here is a link to the American Bird Conservancy site where there is some additional information about deterring cats from killing birds .. the bell collars and other suggestions: http://www.abcbirds.org/index.htm Lots of other interesting information at this site.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Victor, 

Please try to not be so hard on Arty. He is also a fellow cat lover and cat owner himself and he's just very passionate about the owner's responsibilities of their cats. I'm not taking sides, and it's a very delicate situation here it seems. Cats and birds are a touchy topic here with many of the general animal lovers on this site. I just hope that you don't feel that Arty's comments were a personal attack on you....they weren't, that I'm sure The majority of cat owners here on this site are EXTREMELY insightful and do what is right in terms of the birds that we all love...wild or otherwise. 


Sincerely,


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Everyone,

This is a topic that comes up from time to time on the forum that usually leads people to offer very strong opinions. It is a problem without a solution because each camp feels strongly that their opinion is the correct one. Anyone that is a newer member that would like to read a previous thread discussing this can go to Search and type in "roaming cats". You will see two threads, one is a very lengthy one titled "Pigeons and cats" and the next one is "Pigeons and cats continued."

I do have my own opinion on this and you can read it on the threads I have mentioned. I will not comment further here nor in any other post because I feel it is a waste of time. I personally think that on this topic we would be all better off just agreeing to disagree and leave it at that.

I hope everyone will try to post their opinions calmly and respectfully or refrain from commenting at all.

Thanks
Linda

PS I echo Brad's sentiments in the post above.....L


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## baby_pidgeon (Jan 27, 2005)

*how sad*

 that story was truly sad i hope your wife, kids and you will be alright.
jas


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

JAS~ Thank you for you kind words.We had a small "funeral" for red, and then three days later one of our dogs that we have had for 15 years fell ill, but passed away Sunday at the vets.We had a viewing and ceremony on Tuesday and then had her creamated.It is a sad time when we loose our animal friends, especially the ones that become part of your family.One of the things that has given me an uplifting is feeding the outdoor birds and squirrels while my pigeon rests on my shoulder! Life has to go on but the memories are always there.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

_"one of our dogs that we have had for 15 years fell ill, but passed away Sunday at the vets"_
My condolences to you & your family Victor. 

_"One of the things that has given me an uplifting is feeding the outdoor birds and squirrels while my pigeon rests on my shoulder"_
How cool is that!  

Cindy


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## GreenDawg (Feb 11, 2005)

*Cat Saliva?*

Cat Saliva? Can you tell me a little more about the effects? What is the remedy? (I have 10 birds AND a cat .... oh and dogs and fishes.) Some of my birds are "inside" birds. What about Dog Saliva? Thanks.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Green Dawg, 

Cats carry a very potent bacteria in their mouths that is highly toxic to birds. I forget the strain exactly but Cynthia can tell you. Anyways, if a cat bites or scratches a bird, the saliva can get into the cut and the bacteria enters the bloodstream and infects the bird. It's almost always fatal and the treatment is strong antibiotics ASAP. I'm not sure about the bacteria in dogs saliva - whether or not it's deadly to birds or not but they do have bacteria in their mouths as well.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is pasteurella multicocida and is carried by 90% of cats and 70% of dogs. Humans also carry it in their saliva which is why it is not a good idea to transfer food from your own mouth to a bird's.

Hope this link works!

http://www.petco.com/pet_care_article.asp?webt=0&tab=1&categoryID=14&pettype=-1&articleID=36

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Ah yes....I knew this about humans. It's not good to "Wet kiss" birds. I always try to make sure that my saliva doesn't come in contact with my birds. Thanks Cynthia for clarifying which bacteria it was and also about the information about the dogs as well. I wasn't sure whether or not they carried that type.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Mouth-to-mouth feeding can seem very reasonable and practical in certain circumstances, most humans have no idea that it could be deadly to birds.

A few years ago my sister rescued a squeaker and I was most impressed when she told me that she fed it by chewing the corn herself first so that it was fed as an easily digestible paste.

The squeaker became ill and although she took it to the vet it died without treatment. It was years later that I realised that it had probably developed Pasteurellosis from her saliva.

There are also other potential sources of infection: the cat litter tray, food that has already been moutherd by cats or dogs, the dog's drinking water, affectionate licking by friendly dogs....all harmless to other small animals but potentially fatal to birds.

Cynthia


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## GreenDawg (Feb 11, 2005)

*Cat Saliva!*

I have a dog who is a small animal rescuer. Many times when a bird is found outside she would guard it until I come and see what she has. She won't let the other dog or cat come near it. This morning she was protecting a gopher! Once one of my own parakeets escaped from the outside cage and when my son came home she was just keeping it nestled between her paws and chin, waiting for someone to get it from her. I never thought of giving them a shower. 

She has also confiscated birds from neighborhood cats, and kept them. They were wild birds so I returned them to their nests. Should I give them some natural antibacterial shower first?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

GreenDawg said:


> She has also confiscated birds from neighborhood cats, and kept them. They were wild birds so I returned them to their nests. Should I give them some natural antibacterial shower first?


It's not a shower that would be needed but rather a course of an antibiotic such as Clavamox. If there are no punctures or other wounds, I would think the best course of action is to return the bird to its nest without any further intervention. JMO.

Terry


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