# N.J. Pigeon....with twisted neck...



## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

*Pigeon has no balance in it's head...*

Hi ...first time here. I logged on to see if anyone could help or give me some advice.

We have lots of pigeons in our yard and feed them constantly. We do love them.. Today I came home and saw one in my driveway swirling around and it seemed to try to fly but just flopped across the driveway to the grass. I picked it up and put it in the back yard near where we feed them. I was hoping it would get better. I looked after about 20 minutes and it was gone. I figured it was ok.....and I was very glad (poor thing ...) Then I looked again and it was on the grass flopping around then became still for some time. I feel so bad for it. My husband came home and he said it looked like it died...so he went to pick it up and it seemed to be lifeless...then it started to perk it's head up but it was like it had a stroke or something. We are wondering what to do??? Should we corral it up some how and take it to a VET? OR........does the ASPCA take care of something like this. I feel so helpless...can anyone advise us what to do. I hate to see this little pigeon suffer if it is in pain. I just want to help this little guy somehow!
Thanks to anyone who responds to this.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The ASPCA's usual response is euthanization.

It doesn't sound good for the little fellow but put him in a padded box for now and make sure he's plenty warm. It's hard to imagine that he made it there in this condition so I'd guess this was something more acute (sudden onset). He may even have swallowed something wrong and gotten it in an airway.

If you have a stethoscope, you can listen and see if there's any breathing stress although you don't have anything to compare to, I know. You're just looking for something glaringly obvious. Holding him firmly, you might look in his throat by prying his beak apart with your fingernails and seeing if it all looks like regular mouth and throat stuff or if something looks funny.

I'd hurry.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

It could be a number of things, but I agree that if you took it to a vet or the ASPCA they would most probably euthanase and that would also probably be unnecessary.

At the moment I have a pigeon with PMV, for the most part he is okay but he suddenly started flopping around and turning circles like you describe during the night a couple of nights ago. Then he was okay again. I think that he was agitated because he was unable to fly up to his shelf and the more he tried the worse his symptoms became.

If you place the pigeon in a warm dry box, with a deep dish for seed and give him access to water in a deep container that he can't get his whole head in and drown (you might have to hold his head while he drinks ) and just watch him for a while, you might be able to determine more of his illness.

Check whether his symptoms are constant or whether they come and go according to the leve of stress he is under. Also check the frequency and nature of his poops.

Cynthia


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

*Thanks Pigey... I will do it right now....!!!*

I am going outside to look at his throat right now... What do I do if something is IN there? Take it out OR.......... push it down as if to dislodge it? Thanks for your quick response...


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Thank you.......I did read your response


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Charsfield, Thank you both for taking care of your outdoor pigeons and your concern for the pigeon showing the abnormal symtoms.Call around to vet offices and ask if they have an Avian vet on staff.Also explain the situation and ask what their policy is to putting animals to "sleep."

Pidgey and Cindy, I was thinking the PMV thing as well.

Charsfield, is the pigeon holding its head upside down and "stargazing"?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I wouldn't worry about catching a disease from him, if that's bothering you. Just wash your hands after you handle him.

He certainly can't stay outside unprotected as he is, though--something will get him sooner or later.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

PMV was on my mind but I was thinking to take it one step at a time and try to rule out anything more acute and life-threatening before getting on to long-term hospice care subjects. Being as it's Sunday, it might be tough to find any kind of vet.

Where basically are you, Charsfield?

Pidgey


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

No...stargazing...(sorry I haven't responded but I am having this big party today and people are on their way and I am so busy... (but also.... I am so concerned about this little guy.

I am getting things ready and I did put him in box with some straw and now and in my garage but he is moving around...quit a bit. Is he scared? I did put a light on....... I feel so bad...but I have all these people coming in an hour...and I am still feeling so bad for the pigeon. My husband thinks I may be overeacting but I know this little guy is in pain somewhat. I just can't forget about it....(him or her which ever it is.) what else can I do. I tried looking in the mouth... I see nothing........but throat


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

New Jersey


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

I hope he lasts till tonight..then I can spend more time with him.. Victor....you feel what I feel about pigeons...and birds...animals....things living....I am going to give him over to God right now have my party...for my family (birthday) and hope I can help him tonight. I think God will care for him till then....

Thank you all for your responses......there are a nice bunch of people here..


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might calm him down more by making the light dim or even dark. That sometimes helps. Thanks.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

No immediate urgency, but when you can please replace the straw with a dry towel or dry newspaper. Straw gets damp with droppings and can produce a fungus that is fatal to pigeons.

Now, you have done what you can for the litle fella, he is safe and comfortable. Enjoy your party!

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Depending upon where in New Jersey you are, you might find some assistance from one of our resources people: http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Could be poison...or brain injury from blunt trauma...illness...starvation...or combinations of any of these...


Is there any odor or smell to the Bird?

Was the Bird breathing through an open or semi-open Beak? Or appearing to be breathing rapidly?

Did the Bird seem agitated or anxious, frenetic?

Or dreamy and subdued?

Are there any poops? and if so, can you describe them? ( one more 'reason' why a light or white Towell is best for them to be on...)

Do it's pupils appear to respond to light by becomeing smaller or larger as light conditions change?

Is the Bird 'light' or 'thin' or does it feel like it has some heft or weight for itself?

Does it's Crop feel empty? Or does it feel like it has some content? and if so, does the content feel 'full'? solid? mushy? sodden? watery?

Is the Bird's vent and vent area Feathers clean? ( where they poop from...)


Does the Bird have 'white' soft fleshy 'nubs' where it's Beak and forehead meet?

Or have such 'nubs' but where they are ashen or grey or damp looking?

Or no 'nubs' at all?

Any tiny whisps of 'yellow' on their head or other Feather's tips?

Does the Bird seem clean, nice Feathers, smooth...? Or poofy, 'artichoke-like' or unkempt?


You can just elect 'quote' then reply to these briefly one-at-a-time or something, if you like...


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Your pigeon and your co-members will be waiting for you.


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Could be poison...or brain injury from blunt trauma...illness...starvation...or combinations of any of these...


Is there any odor or smell to the Bird? ]No bad smell at all

Was the Bird breathing through an open or semi-open Beak? Or appearing to be breathing rapidly? A semi open beak

Did the Bird seem agitated or anxious, frenetic? Seemed like it wanted to get away and fly but kept falling over onto one side.

Or dreamy and subdued? No not at all.....

Are there any poops? and if so, can you describe them? ( one more 'reason' why a light or white Towell is best for them to be on...) Soft and greenish white and some are dark like a dark brown

Do it's pupils appear to respond to light by becomeing smaller or larger as light conditions change? Yes they respond ok

Is the Bird 'light' or 'thin' or does it feel like it has some heft or weight for itself? No...healthy and fat....

Does it's Crop feel empty? Or does it feel like it has some content? and if so, does the content feel 'full'? solid? mushy? sodden? watery? Sorry but I don't know what the "Crop" is on a pigeon. Is it the stool??

Is the Bird's vent and vent area Feathers clean? ( where they poop from...)
Yes....clean


Does the Bird have 'white' soft fleshy 'nubs' where it's Beak and forehead meet? Yes ...it does have this...

Or have such 'nubs' but where they are ashen or grey or damp looking?

Or no 'nubs' at all?

Any tiny whisps of 'yellow' on their head or other Feather's tips? No

Does the Bird seem clean, nice Feathers, smooth...? Or poofy, 'artichoke-like' or unkempt? Clean and nice as an outside bird can be.


You can just elect 'quote' then reply to these briefly one-at-a-time or something, if you like...


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas[/QUOTE]


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Charsfield said:


> Was the Bird breathing through an open or semi-open Beak? Or appearing to be breathing rapidly? *A semi open beak*
> 
> Did the Bird seem agitated or anxious, frenetic? *Seemed like it wanted to get away and fly but kept falling over onto one side.*
> 
> ...


The semi-open beak breathing is a little worrisome. How does the bird sit when it's somewhat at rest--is the tail pulled down so that the back end of the pigeon resembles a "tucked downward" lobster tail?

"Kept falling over to one side"--is there a possibility of a broken leg on one side? To check, pick the bird up and see if he can push away from you equally with both legs.

About the poops--is there a specifically white portion that's mixed with the green or is the white portion specifically a greenish white or blue-greenish white?

The "Crop" is a widening of the esophagus that is a temporary storage place for food. If you feel on the chest at the upper point of the breastbone, you can feel if there's food in the section just above and up towards the base of the neck. Depending on what the bird's been eating, you may or may not be able to distinguish individual grains. They can hold a couple of tablespoons in there.

The white nubs on the forehead signify that it's an adult bird of unknown age.

Pidgey


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Hello to you all.......I am back. 

The little pigeon is now on paper towels. It's is still and quiet. Seems to be resting. Is not trying to fly or move so much. Do you think it's trying to rest or heal itself? It still does lean to the left with it's head turning and then it falls over on it's side but it does this with very little movement.
So far...it's still alive...(Yea!) Tomorrow I will call a vet and see what they suggest. Also I did check on the web site one of you nice responders told me to here in New Jersey...but it's no where near me. 

I will see what the vet says tomorrow. I will not let him put him down. I will try to do more before I do that. 

Poor little guy...I wonder how this happens? I guess when your out in the elements... anything can happen out there. 

Thank you to all of you who helped me with this problem I have to deal with. Today my party was nice but I felt so bad...like I abandoned him for several hours today. I am exhausted now but will deal with this tommorrow. Right now he is resting comfortable in my garage on PAPER Towels. 

Thanks for all the info and concern for this little guy who I am calling "Twister"
because of him twisting his neck back and forth to one side. 

I am a true animal/bird lover...
Your responses were/are so appreciated. THANK YOU!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Please do not feel bad because you had obligations with your family, as there was nothing more you really could do today, on a Sunday. 

I really do believe Twister is afficted with PMV, but do not dispair, as it is treatable. Just keep him comfortable, warm, isolated and as stated earlier, make sure the water dish is not deep enough for it to drown itself. 

There is reference information on P.M.V. in the resource section.I am still at work, and will pop in later. Thank you for taking him in.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I wouldn't be too quick on the PMV. He could as easily have smacked into something and is suffering swelling in the brain or brain stem. Often with PMV, there can be quite voluminous droppings due to the parallel attack on the kidneys.

Charsfield, do you know if Twister has had anything to eat or drink today?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I didn't know which thread to respond to, maybe these two could be consolidated, but I did want to say that Paratyphoid could also be a possibility.
As mentioned, there are some other possiblities that could produce the falling over and twisting neck, it doesn't sound as yet as though the bird is stargazing per se. Perhaps a more detailed description of the poops would be helpful. If the bird is eating and drinking, and how much? 

I did have a bird that behaved much like this and while no firm diagnosis from a vet, I believe it to have been Paratyphoid. She responded well to Baytril and hasn't demonstrated these symptoms again. I think the larger issue is if you would like to do some rehab with this pij, it might take a few weeks to get the pigeon back on its' feet....and if not, we need to find someone close by who can help out.

Thanks for all of your care and concern over the pigeons well being, hopefully
we can get to the bottom of the symptoms you are seeing.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Have merged the other thread into this one ..

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My guess is also PMV but the biggest problem of the Internet is that however well someone describes symptoms we tend to envision what we are most familiar with , like PMV in my case...so it is important to keep an open mind.

Years ago there was a case of a hen that was having fits and being attacked by other pigeons. The most experienced members diagnosed poisoning because that fitted the symptoms and the advice offered went down that route as did the treatment. Fortunately a wildlife rehabber was able to examine the bird and realised it was a case of egg binding. The hen lived, but the experience taught us that what we see in our minds eye may not be what the rescuer actually sees.

If it is PMV he just needs supportive care : There is no treatment that is urgently required for survival and it can only be a good thing to consider all alternative diagnoses.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Charsfield,


It might be a good idea to provide definite 'warmth', such as via an electric Heating Pad, so the Bird is on a towell covering the Pad, and the pad set to low, or medium, or medium with two towells, but so that your wrist when pressed against the surface, registers about the same or a tiny bit more temperature than your own body temp...and, set up so the Bird may be 'on' this or off of it as he sees fit.


Injury and starvation can produce these symptoms, as can some illnesses mentioned previously also...

If this is a youngster newly out of the nest, it may look more or less grown up, but may not have ever fed himself by pecking yet, and would possibly have so far only been fed by his parents.

Can you post some images of the Bird?

If he is not eating, he may beed to be fed by some method or other which we can guide you in.



White Towells also allow one to tell what the poops are looking like, and to tell how many of them there are in 24 hours, or overnight even...


The Bird's front center lower area is their 'Keel'...on a starved or undernourished for some time Pigeon, the Keel will feel 'sharp'...on Pigeons who have been finding enough to eat and getting excercise, the Keel will be pretty well buried in muscle and will not feel sharp.

The Crop is above their Keel, below their throat, on the front of their Body...this is where they hold Food, pending the food moving down to their Stomach...


Good luck...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cynthia, you made some very good points and interesting comments in your post......who would have immediately thought of egg binding? But the direct examination did reveal this. And to clarify on my part, I did not see fits or flopping around in conjunction w/the falling over and inability to recover to a standing position. Also, the pij could need longer than just a few weeks of care to recuperate.

Charsfield, sometimes there are avian vets who will treat pigeons at no cost but with the contingency that you sign the bird over to their care. Here's a link for the Association of Avian Vets, maybe there is one listed close by:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

or some more rehabber listings here:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactN.htm#il

These are just some options for you, although you may choose to rehab the pigeon yourself.

fp


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

I appreciate all your kind words...and helpful suggestions and all the questions you asked.........

This afternoon my husband, who is off this week from work...put the bird out in his box on our patio. Our patio is covered with ceiling fans and the pigeon flew up there first then out of the covering and up to the roof. We have a ranch home so it's not too high up. He said it seemed fine. He never expected it to fly out of the box. He said he just wanted to give it some air since the weather is nice out now in June. 

Now ...what the heck...??? How could he get better so fast? If he didn't put the box out...would the pigeon have been sicker if he was kept in our garage? It's like a miracle.

Boy, I am learning so much about pigeons...How can this bird get better on it's own and SO quickly? I hope I won't find it weak and unable to fly again somewhere in our yard.

OH...by the way... I did call a vet and they said if I was so worried I should bring it in and they would put it to sleep but for a fee. How nice of them.... 
Let me know your comments on THIS new information.

Thanks again to all of you who tried to help with this.......


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Today is Monday night and he is gone......read other post....but....he did drink some water yesterday and ate a few crushed peanuts. Amazing...
You have to read my other post...he just flew away. In a way I'm glad and hope he is better.
Thanks again.........


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Charsfield,

I'm sorry to hear about the vet that you called and his/her offer. The ones listed for the AAV are a bit of a crap shoot, in that it's all according to whether or not they personally want to do that in their business. Some will help, some will not. 

Perhaps your pigeon was dehydrated & hungry, or had a bit of a crash landing
or whatever and just needed some r&r to get back out and running again. Perhaps there is a more long term problem that is only showing intermittantly, I don't know that we are able to tell right now. The good news is, that the pigeon seems to be doing better and was able to fly off on its' own accord.

We get some folks posting here with some pretty unusual situations and conditions looking for help. It's actually not that uncommon for someone to join and tell us about a pretty sick bird that they've rescued. So we do our best over an awkward medium-the internet-to try and narrow down what the problem might be and give some information as to how they might proceed. 

At any rate, sounds as though your pigeon is off to join the rest, this is good news. Again, thanks for caring and taking the time to come to the aid of the pigeon you saw in need.

fp


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## Charsfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Your quite welcome...but I may need you all once again...if "TWISTER" comes back doing the neck thing and falling down again I will surely get the proper help. 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate ALL the responses to me. You've been very kind me in trying to help! 

Thank you all and God Bless... I will keep in touch.......


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Okeydoke...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Charsfield said:


> * *Now ...what the heck...??? How could he get better so fast? *
> 
> *** How can this bird get better on it's own and SO quickly? *


* With everything that you said was going on, in reality, he couldn't.

** Again, he couldn't. The fact he could fly, doesn't mean he was 'all' better.

Cindy


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