# Mixing Medicines



## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi again,
I think you all made it pretty clear in my last thread (babies not growing) that my pigeon mentor has been steering me in the wrong direction. Now I question everything I have been told. Would it be better for me to just ask them all in this one thread or should I start separate threads for each? Well, while I wait for you to answer I will start with my first which is about the mixed medicine. 
My friend brought me Sulmet and Terramyacin and had me mix them together. Now I have seen pre mixed packages of Sulmet with other antibiotics but not Terramyacin. Is this OK or are both of these medicines now wasted?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow13 said:


> Hi again,
> I think you all made it pretty clear in my last thread (babies not growing) that my pigeon mentor has been steering me in the wrong direction. Now I question everything I have been told. Would it be better for me to just ask them all in this one thread or should I start separate threads for each? Well, while I wait for you to answer I will start with my first which is about the mixed medicine.
> My friend brought me Sulmet and Terramyacin and had me mix them together. Now I have seen pre mixed packages of Sulmet with other antibiotics but not Terramyacin. Is this OK or are both of these medicines now wasted?


I would'nt think mixing is good, but there are products out like 4 in 1, so I don't know. it is best to find out what they have and then treat THAT specific disease/bacteria......and not treat if everyone is healthy....just the vitamins and ACV and garlic for good health...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Just in the interest of keeping things a bit simple, I think it would be best for you to ask your questions in separate threads though it would be fine to put more than one question in each thread. I'm guessing your questions probably fall into categories such as Medication, Feed, Housing, Training YB's and such. If that's not the case, just feel free to ask away.

As to the mixing of the Sulmet and Terramyacin .. I would hang onto the mixture just in case something comes up that it could be used for. If you know the amount and strengths of each drug in the mixture that would be helpful.

Generally speaking, it is necessary to know the strength of whatever drugs you have, such as 250 mg tablet of Metronidazole, 22.7 mg tablet of Baytril, 100 mg per cc of enrofloxacin and so forth. Using the strength of the drug along with the weight of the patient and the recommended dose, we can come up with a proper amount to give to the patient. 

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I know fanciers who do this (mix drugs) but I've never done it. I expect that you need to take it case by case. (Knock on Wood), I've never had an occasion where I thought I needed to mix different drugs together. I always treat for certain things before racing, breeding, etc........and I use specific drugs to treat specific ailments and it takes about 3 to 4 weeks to complete it all. 
I personally don't care much for the 4 in 1's and 5 in 1's......but the companies make them and people use them..............it's just a personal preference for me.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

On another note, I don't expect that the person you've gotten information from is telling you a bunch of stuff that's not true. 
I just expect that they have a different perspective of these birds.
Just so you know.........one thing that is not advocated here on PT and not discussed is culling. Basically, I think that that's exactly what this person was telling you when they said to get rid of the babies because they would make all your breeders sick.
Some fanciers do that sort of thing. They don't want to be bothered with the sick birds and they just "get rid of them".........and many would have done just that to the two that you just tried to save.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

I have definately come to realize that there are many varying opinions on raising birds, but in this case misinformation led to the death of two birds. You see I had specifically asked him if (1.) I needed to increase the food in the winter because they all started to act like they were starving when it got colder and (2.) Whether the parents should have extra food while feeding the babies and he told me no on both!! 
The other thing is how do you tell someone who is supposed to be mentoring you that what they tell you is wrong? Whenever he brings me new birds he just tosses them in my loft. Now I have seen EVERYWHERE that new birds should be kept separate until you know if they are healthy. But if I say something he looks at me like I have 4 heads.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow13 said:


> I have definately come to realize that there are many varying opinions on raising birds, but in this case misinformation led to the death of two birds. You see I had specifically asked him if (1.) I needed to increase the food in the winter because they all started to act like they were starving when it got colder and (2.) Whether the parents should have extra food while feeding the babies and he told me no on both!!
> The other thing is how do you tell someone who is supposed to be mentoring you that what they tell you is wrong? Whenever he brings me new birds he just tosses them in my loft. Now I have seen EVERYWHERE that new birds should be kept separate until you know if they are healthy. But if I say something he looks at me like I have 4 heads.


DO NOT LET THIS PERSON JUST THROW BIRDS IN YOUR LOFT. You should ALWAYS quarantine new birds. There are different opinions on how long and circumstances sometimes dictate what you should do and for how long. The general rule is a minimum of 2 weeks and some say 4 to 6 weeks. 
Everyone is different, but if it was ME......I'd tell him/her to take a long leap off of a short pier.........
However........you know the person and have to handle them the way you see fit. I personally go balistic about 3 times a year with some of my fancier friends, because they do some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen. I may not change their mind, but they have no doubt about what I think about certain things. They look at me like I've got 4 heads too........but I don't care.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

I have an upstairs in my loft is that good enough to quarantine or do they need a separate loft? Keep in mind I only have the one loft at the moment which it seems I need to completely redesign. 
Also, I do realize what he was telling me to do when he said "get rid of them" I was horrified, He knew I wouldn't and just laughed at me. He picks on me for getting too attached. We started off the summer with just 13 young birds that could be breeders/flyers, at the end of Sept. on one of their training tosses one never came back and one came back injured. I didn't let them out again this year. I'm such a big softy I couldn't bear the thought of losing any of the remaining 12 before breeding season, now I have 40 with all I have gotten since.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, I will tell you alot of older fanciers are like this and even if you say something they will act like I have done this for years. I have seen alot of crazy stuff and even with a guy that really helped me get started. This summer I had him come over and help me vaccinate my birds and after we had the vaccine out there and heated it up he told me to put it back in the fridge and use it later. I know better than that. I have been doing my own vaccines on my dogs for years, and told him that it would be pointless cause it would be no good. I told him I would not do it and that he could have it if he wanted. I also witnessed food siting in a pile on the floor of his racing loft and many more things but point is stand your ground. Tell him you want to do it different and no offence to him. Oh, know how many times this guy that helped he get started beat me in a race this year? Once, I had one bird in the race and he had over 20.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

No, you don't need a separate loft. Upstairs would be just fine. Or you could keep the bird in a cage for a little while. 
I don't always follow the "rule" for quarantine like I should, but it has bitten me once or twice............depends on where the bird or birds are coming from and how much you know and/or trust that person. I know people that I wouldn't even take a bird from..........and I know others that I wouldn't have a problem putting thier birds in my loft within a weeks time. Just have to play it by ear.
I get the same thing.........but from my husband no less.......... "you get too attached"........they are pigeons...........blah, blah, blah.......
I've just lost a 3 year old hen to a hawk today I believe, and I'm heartbroken......hes thinks I've lost my marbles........


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I get the same thing.........but from my husband no less.......... "you get too attached"........they are pigeons...........blah, blah, blah.......
I've just lost a 3 year old hen to a hawk today I believe, and I'm heartbroken......hes thinks I've lost my marbles........[/QUOTE]


thats what makes you such a good pigeon keeper IMO....



moonshadow, I would find another mentor....


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

moonshadow13 said:


> I have an upstairs in my loft is that good enough to quarantine or do they need a separate loft? Keep in mind I only have the one loft at the moment which it seems I need to completely redesign.
> Also, I do realize what he was telling me to do when he said "get rid of them" I was horrified, He knew I wouldn't and just laughed at me. He picks on me for getting too attached. We started off the summer with just 13 young birds that could be breeders/flyers, at the end of Sept. on one of their training tosses one never came back and one came back injured. I didn't let them out again this year. I'm such a big softy I couldn't bear the thought of losing any of the remaining 12 before breeding season, now I have 40 with all I have gotten since.


First of all, hello from a fellow upstate New Yorker! I have since transplanted to Georgia but my heart still flutters at the thought of the Adirondak and Catskill Mountains!

Anyway, on to more practical things. My first bit of advice would be to slow down on the getting of birds. You said you started with 13 and now have 40. I assume these others were gifted to you. I would stop taking any more outside birds. Every time you bring in another bird you bring in whatever that bird has been exposed to. I would stop with what you have, select the ones you would like to pair and set about putting together a healthy breeding program to raise your own flyers for next year. 

Concentrate on getting the ones you have now as healthy and clean of any internal or external problems as you can. Read a lot. There is a lot of information out there of maintaining birds. Ask a lot of questions and as has been said already, the folks here usually will steer you in the right direction.

Dan


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

moonshadow13 said:


> I have an upstairs in my loft is that good enough to quarantine or do they need a separate loft? Keep in mind I only have the one loft at the moment which it seems I need to completely redesign.
> Also, I do realize what he was telling me to do when he said "get rid of them" I was horrified, He knew I wouldn't and just laughed at me. He picks on me for getting too attached. We started off the summer with just 13 young birds that could be breeders/flyers, at the end of Sept. on one of their training tosses one never came back and one came back injured. I didn't let them out again this year. I'm such a big softy I couldn't bear the thought of losing any of the remaining 12 before breeding season, now I have 40 with all I have gotten since.



Some birds do get injured some times I had a few with broken legs last year but one of them went on to get 3rd in a race. I say let them fly, sometimes stuff does happen, but they are birds their supposed to fly. They should be free to fly sometimes that is their life and even if I didn't race I would still let them fly.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

I know I did catch bird fever for a bit, but I was told I needed about 40-50 good breeders before breeding season or I would not have enough birds to race. I promise I will stop at 40. 
I will let them fly again in the spring, I read to keep them in from Oct.-April thats when the hawks food supply runs out they are more likely to eat my pigeons.
Now I seem to need to concentrate on redesigning my loft. Just found out it is too big to be a YB/Racing Loft and with the early onset of winter here in NY I won't have time to build a breeders loft


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Getting back to the medicine, Terry raised (as always) good points about medicine and the strength of each. For that reason, I wouldn't mix together the Sulmet and Terramycin. Best thing to do is keep it simple and if you need to give both drugs then give them separately just in case they have different strengths. I can't recall EVER mixing two drugs together.

There are many of us on here who can help with the dosages anytime so feel free to ask. We would need the concentration (strength) of each drug and the weight of the bird.

If you don't already have a gram scale, I would encourage you to purchase one. They usually cost about $50 bucks and honestly, I wouldn't do without one. The weight of a bird is crucial in determining dosage.

Good luck and glad to have you aboard!


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

Unfortunately he had me mix these when he gave them to me, I believe he has the dosing as 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. Told me to use as a preventative when bringing in new birds and other than that these two mixed would cure whatever ails them.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

moonshadow13 said:


> I know I did catch bird fever for a bit, but I was told I needed about 40-50 good breeders before breeding season or I would not have enough birds to race. I promise I will stop at 40.
> I will let them fly again in the spring, I read to keep them in from Oct.-April thats when the hawks food supply runs out they are more likely to eat my pigeons.
> Now I seem to need to concentrate on redesigning my loft. Just found out it is too big to be a YB/Racing Loft and with the early onset of winter here in NY I won't have time to build a breeders loft


I don't know what I'd do with myself if I had 50 breeders  You don't need a lot of birds to race. If you don't end up with something by the time race season rolls around, then you need to change something, not breed more young birds.
I don't know about mixing those two. I prefer to treat one thing, or at least use one medicine, at a time. So I personally wouldn't mix any medicine unless I knew exactly what I was doing. Sulmet is good for coccidiosis and Terramycin for respiratory. Both are broad spectrum, so you'll be cleaning them out of a lot of stuff at the same time. If you do decide to use it, I hope you have some probiotics to use after the medication is over, to get their systems back up to speed. If not, you could be hurting them more than helping them.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

Oops not 50 pair - 50 total


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow13 said:


> Oops not 50 pair - 50 total


Are you planning on racing YB's next year?


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

I hope too race YB next year. I am supposed to go join the club after the first of the year


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well in that case, 25 pair is still more than I have  I only have 9 pair I'm breeding out of for now, but my Old Birds are also going to have some babies so...it adds up. Regardless of how many you end up with, just make sure you're able to keep up their health and provide enough room for them to be comfortable


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

25 pair is alot. You could end up with 100-150 pigeons. How big is your loft?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm breeding out of 12 pair this year........had 15 pair last year, raised too many babies and had a problem with what to do with all the extra birds......still have some left over.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

The first loft which I thought was going to be my YB/Racing loft is 10x10 downstairs 10x4 upstairs with an aviary that is 6h x8w x4d. We have started building a breeders loft that is 8x14 and that will have a HUGE aviary.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

We'd love to see pictures of your loft AND birds......we're picture fanatics 'round here.......


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

I will definately do so first thing tomorrow! It is awful dark and snowy here even with the light on don't think I will get a good picture. I would love to hear some suggestions on how to redesign it so I can use it as a breeding pen this year. With the early onset of winter here in NY not sure if we will be able to get our breeders loft done in time.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow13 said:


> I will definately do so first thing tomorrow! It is awful dark and snowy here even with the light on don't think I will get a good picture. I would love to hear some suggestions on how to redesign it so I can use it as a breeding pen this year. With the early onset of winter here in NY not sure if we will be able to get our breeders loft done in time.


Well, you get the pics and we're FULL of suggestions.......LOL.....actually, I won't be around much tomorrow.......gotta go to one of those "pigeon meetings"..........UHHHH..........but others will be around I'm sure. Except the guys watching football, which is what I would be doing IF I was going to be at home...........


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, you get the pics and we're FULL of suggestions.......LOL.....actually, I won't be around much tomorrow.......gotta go to one of those "pigeon meetings"..........UHHHH.


 You aren't the only one going 'UHHHHH'. Tomorrow will be...interesting.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Why are you starting to race already? I thought you are suppose to learn how to take care of these birds first, then racing will follow. It is going too fast to me!

I am beginning to understand your mentor's teaching style. He or she is one of those racers who breed many to race many. Basically playing the numbers game. I also believe that your mentor is one of those who believes in the survival of the fittest. If the birds don't make it, then let them die kind of a thing. There are indeed many different ways of doing things.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

RodSD said:


> Why are you starting to race already? I thought you are suppose to learn how to take care of these birds first, then racing will follow. It is going too fast to me!
> 
> I am beginning to understand your mentor's teaching style. He or she is one of those racers who breed many to race many. Basically playing the numbers game. I also believe that your mentor is one of those who believes in the survival of the fittest. If the birds don't make it, then let them die kind of a thing. There are indeed many different ways of doing things.


It is interesting that you bring this up. I too have found that many of the fanciers that have been around a long time insist on breeding huge numbers. I have heard the quote "It's a numbers game and you have to play the numbers to win" more times that I can count. I am just not interested in raising 200 youngsters each year. Among other things it is way too much work. I don't want the birds to become a burden to me. It needs to stay fun and keeping up with that many birds is a full time job, let alone the number of birds you are thowing away each year. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> You aren't the only one going 'UHHHHH'. Tomorrow will be...interesting.


I'd actually just rather stay at home.........but I'm afraid of what "they" might do if I don't go...........LOL


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