# Slatted walls -- shadybugs floors go veritical



## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

By now I think we have all looked a the fabulous shadybug loft build thread. One of the things that I liked most in his build are the slatted floors. Mr Bug was gracious enough to show us all how to build those floors and I shamelessly used his instructions when building the floors of the Castle. 

Well, after discovering that using bird netting for walls was "not smart" I happened to notice a spare section of floor leaning upright over in a corner. That inspired the son and I to think of our walls as floors. We are now building cheap "slatted walls" for our loft and I thought others might be interested. 

I have put up the first draft of the directions on our blog. You can see read them at http://jandjlofts.blogspot.com/2011/05/slatted-walls.html. I will be adding more pics and clarifying as we refine the build or as folks request them. 

Let me know what you think.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

That's cool, how about some pics of it installed.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I just updated the post with install pics.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Looks great A close up on that feeder would be nice when you get time.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Those don't work like I wanted and I will be remaking them to work properly. The originals have some close up photos though. If you click on the Photos link below, then click on "The Castle" you will see the generation 1 feeders in the OB section. 

Actually here is the first photo https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8I8wWtOFlIwph5XBqoOojw?feat=directlink

The next 3 photos from that point will show you 90% of the idea.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What happens to the feed they don't eat? When you flip it it would spill out.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Yes it does. That was known at design. What we do is move all the grain to one end, place a 1/2 gal storage container (rubbermaid) beneath the feeder and let the grain fall into the container. We then reuse the feed the next day or, if we are feeding from these troughs first, we use the feed in the next loft. Since those pics were taken we have moved the feeders to be external making collection much easier. 

One thing to keep in mind is that we are "measure freaks" on the feeding. We do all feeding by weight and track consumption. Typically we wind up with less than 1-2 oz left over in the OB lofts. YB is currently running between 4-8oz depending on amount of fly time and number of birds added that week (weaned birds take a day or two to get up to speed).


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## billyr70 (Jun 11, 2009)

Nice walls.  Great job and thank you for the pics and details.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

You could just use the other half of the pipe as a cap just put a couple hinges on one side, flip it open to feed, then close it to stop feeding.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Thought about that at your suggestion. The driver was making them cheap and easy. As it is we make them for less than $5/feeder (4' pipe, 4 couplers, 1 pack J hooks makes 2 units). That and they are pretty "dumb bird" proof. We have a few that are so dumb they would get their heads knocked by a closing lid. 

in the lofts were these will need to be static (non-rotating) the lid idea will likely happen though.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Quote: One thing to keep in mind is that we are "measure freaks" on the feeding. We do all feeding by weight and track consumption 

How do you track consumption? I'm sure some birds eat more than others, and how do you know who eats and how much, if you have a lot of birds eating at the same time, or is it overall food consumption. My bird have food 24/7 but then i don't race mine.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Some quick things to note for what follows: 
R == Browns Rock mix
C == Whole kernel corn
B == Barley
P == Pellets (various based on what I bought)(need to be better on this one)
Read the mix rations like a math equation. RC2B would be one unit R, one unit C 2 units corn.

For breeding pairs we use in box feeders for 24/7 feed only while babies are in the box. We provide a mix of C3R.5P in box. This is the one thing we do not do by weight but by volume. Each box get 1/2 cup of that mix twice a day. Tossed (feed to adults) end of day. 

During breeding we use 2RC.25P for the adults. Any left over box mix is added and the total amount provided to the adult birds is 1oz/bird. This is all left out, but any extra is weighed so we know how much is not being eaten (more on that later).

YB during weaning get RC. Unlimited feed for one week. We weigh how much "just so we know". We expect to see an _average_ consumption of .75oz the first day to two days with a spiked increase to 1.5 oz/bird by end of week. 

YB in the flying loft: Mix is highly variable depending on how they are behaving. The base mix is RCB. If we have lazy birds we use (RCB)B. Keep in mind that adding B to RCB is not the same as making RC2B. RC2B is 50% B. (RCB)B is only about 40%B. That 10% is very important. We do not do this more than 2 days in a row. Now to the amounts. We plan 1oz/bird/day. We plan 1/3oz/bird in the AM feed, BUT we provide 1/2oz/bird to allow for pigs and the guys who didn't trap well the night before (no food for you! if you don't trap at dinner time). If we have left over it is weighted and retained for dinner. At dinner we provide plan 2/3oz/bird BUT we provide 1oz/bird. Again, some birds worked more, some missed AM feed (trapping/not interested) and they are growing. We wait until 90% of the birds are done eating then remove remains and weigh. 

The weighing is done using a digital diet scale from Walmart ($12). We weigh the food provided (some may never hit the trough) and the remains. The difference is divided by number of birds to get the per bird amount consumed. To your point of "each bird eats different amounts": this is a flock health indicator, not a bird health indicator. If we see a sudden drop in consumption then we need to look to see if birds are lethargic, not flying, or other signs of sickness. If we see a sudden spike in consumption then we need to look at training, do we have "extras" from the feral population sneaking in, etc. Changes in feed consumption should be considered as indicators in changes in bird health (several old timers provided that tidbit). So far the 2 "bad things" for us, canker and colds, both showed up with a change in feed consumption before the first real symptoms were obvious.

Long winded answer, and coming from a "new guy" should not be considered anything more than "our way". It works for us as it makes the art of feeding a little more predictable when you have 4 loft managers (me, son, wife, daughter).


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow, If I had to go through all that just to feed my birds, i would be out of it the first day. LOL That would take all the fun out of it for me, and I'm not sure thats all that necessary is it. Im sure there a lot of flyer's that win that don't go through all that, but everyone has there own ideas i guess. After you go through all that you still don't know how much each individual pigeon eats do you.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

There is absolutely no sane reason for anyone to do it my way. And no, I don't know what any one bird ate. I find it only takes us a few seconds to do all this anyway. The scale is right next to the feed buckets. Just scoop until you hit XXX. 

There are a few reasons we are doing it this way.
1. There are lots of folks involved over here. And none of us know what we are doing. So instead of leaving it to chance we decided to do some research and come up with a "formula" to provide the birds some consistency in diet and amounts. 
2. This was such an "art" area and there was so little direct "do it this way" instructions that we started taking notes every time the mentors, old guys, and winners started talking. Just like "paint by numbers" is a way to learn a little bit about how to be a painter, we are feeding by numbers as a way to help us learn the art of keeping our birds.
3. While we don't expect to win, it sure would be nice to be competitive. We had so much trouble with trapping and getting the feed right that once we figured out what worked we wanted to make only small changes. Only way to know if a change is small is to know what you are doing. Hopefully we won't lose trapping again...
4. I think we kind of like it. It give us a base point to know that we are "doing things right" for the birds. Knowing that this "plan" ensures they have enough food, gives us a quick overview of flock health, and is helping us work together effectively makes the loft enjoyable for all. The ladies don't worry about the birds needing more. We don't need to worry about the ladies getting the quantity right. Etc.

I did do a dry run on the timing just for kicks. Making the feed mix in the scale added 3 seconds (for the scale to turn on). The "post feeding" stuff adds about 30 seconds. Everything else we would need to do anyway. 

Again, this is just how we do it. It is working for us for now. Once we get more experience maybe we won't be so number focused. Maybe. I am a computer nerd so who knows.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Ok The way you wrote it it sounded more complicated. I think you post was what was complicated. LOL


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I prefer "overly informative" thank you. 

I had such a hard time getting answers that provided numbers and facts (before we found PT) that I figure I should spout them at every opportunity. 

For the record I think it was a bit more complicated before we had our method figured out.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

I understand. One of the funnest things we get to do is feed our birds. I used to raise Discus fish. I and a friend used to buy raw beef hearts to cut up and mix with other things like garlic and shrimp. It was totally un needed but we enjoyed doing it. It made us feel like we were taking more care of our fish than just buying a premade food. It's the same reason that Shadybug built a palace for a bunch of birds that are happy on rock cliffs, underpasses, and abandoned buildings. We do it because it helps us feel envolved with something we love.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Well said Wayne. I had to build the palace, because there's no rock cliffs or underpasses and abandoned building in my back yard. I have to go now and turn down the linens on the little piggy beds. LOL


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Jason, If all that stuff you do keeps your birds healthy that's all that matters, and im sure there a lot of guys and gals that fly that will try your methods. I'm sure a lot of guys keep what they do a secret which doesn't help guys like you, (new to pigeons)so my hats off to you for telling what you do. Someday when your winning big, you will say why did i do that. LOL


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