# Thinking of adopting a pigeon, splayed leg



## ThaRatChick

My neighbors raise pigeons. There is one that is crippled, i suspect splayed leg. Only one leg is splayed, but the pigeon (hes a bald headed roller if that matters) can't fly...yet. I think he is a few months old, and i doubt treatment would be possible. They will kill and eat him (i don't know why they would eat pigeon  ) but said i can have him if i want. I would have to ask my mom first, but i'm thinking I could convince her. Do you think i should get him and let him live out his days with me? Or would it be more humane for him to be killed? I could get a hold of a cage, and can get food and grit.


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## StanelyPidge09

I think you should adopt him or her. 

It is not fair for the poor creature to be killed for something he has no control over and splayed leg still may be able to be corrected (???- I would wait to see what the more experienced say though about that). 

Adopt him and you will have a friend for life!


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## Lucifer

I have helped splayed leg before. Put a couple of snap on bands or split bands on the bird and tie his legs together about where they should be. It does correct itself after about a month. They are a little clumsy the first couple of days but adjust.


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## Mindy

If you live in New Jersey, by philadelphia, I can help you with a cage, food and whatever else you need to help this bird. I can't believe they would eat a pet. Amazing, and AWFUL. Please get him and save him. If your need help convinencing your mom, have her come on her and read your thread. I don't think there will be one person on her that will say let them eat the pigeon. If there is, they shouldn't be on this forum. I have found many cages in the trash, garage sales, good will stores, craigs list. Put an ad on there and tell them your story and say you need a cage to help this poor bird. I would hope someone would respond, I know I would. Please keep us posted. I'm curious, because I'm always curious on why people pick there usernames. Do you have Rats as pets. I had what you called Fancy Rats and honestly, they were some of the best pets I've ever had. Loved them. My dog loved watching them all day long. Tell us where you live and maybe another member can help you out if they are near you. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

I'm worried that fixing his leg would be too painful though, and his bones may already be grown that way... I'm thinking it would be best for him to stay the way he is, even though he can't properly clean himself or perch very well. But i don't really have experience with this, just some online research! He can eat and drink on his own though. 

What size cage would be best? I can get a very large cage from a friend but if i got that cage i would have it outside, and i don't think it would be warm enough for him. I have a smaller rabbit-ish cage but i'm not sure that's big enough. Otherwise i may be able to buy a cage off of the neighbors. I can probably get food and grit from my feedstore/neighbor. 

If i do get him, should i get another bird with him?

Yes, i do have rats. Definitely the best rodents i've had! *loves her rattums*


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## ThaRatChick

And i have a few XL dog crates lying around that would also work as a cage.


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## Mindy

I would keep him in the smaller rabbit cage in your bedroom or where your going to be most of the time so he can have some interaction with you. You still don't say where you live so I'm assuming it gets cold there in the winter so I wouldn't keep him outside. As long as he gets some exercise outside of the cage I think he will be fine. They also make a pigeon diaper you can buy on line if poop becomes a problem. Unless you know what your doing I wouldn't mess with the legs either. Now if someone does know what they are doing then I would say then try. But I wouldn't do it and since your so young, unless you can find someone that has done it before then I would let the legs be. After you get the pigeon you can post a picture on here and maybe someone can help you from that point on. 

When i had my rats I had a problem with them hiding there food, and then there cage started smelling so then I started giving them baby food so they couldn't just pick it up and hide it. They had to sit at the food bowl and lick away. Pretty smart don't ya think? I also gave them the 4" pvc white pipe and made them tunnels through there cage and they loved it. Did you know they can eat a golf ball, they are amazing. mindy


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## Mindy

The dog crates would work just fine also. I just wouldn't keep him outside except maybe for a few hours on nice days. 

My cats caught a mouse, a baby mouse so I put her in an aquirium and yesterday it was hardly moving, I thought it was going to die, so today I gave it a heating pad and it sprung back to life and is moving like crazy. I didn't know they couldn't handle temperatures around 55-60 degrees. Anyway, I'm going to keep it until spring and let it go outside. mindy


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## StanelyPidge09

I don't know much about splayed leg but I can/will contact the wildlife rehab director I work for and see what she recommends as far as the splayed leg goes, if you are interested. 

As far as the cage goes, I have seen some amazing pictures of "pigeon palaces" that people on this forum have created using a dog crate. If you browse the forum I am sure you will find many pictures of them.

I also live near Philidelphia/New Jersey and would be willing to help out or provide any assistance if needed. BTW, I do have a 10 lb. bag of pigeon grit that I recently purchased at Foy's (that was the smallest size I could get even though I only have 1 pigeon ) that I would be willing to send you if you can not find it at any local suppliers (I couldn't). 

Lastly, I had 3 jumbo male rats as well and they were AMAZING. Such great smart animals! Like pigeons, I think that rats have an unfortunate reputation . It is always nice to meet another who loves rats too


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## ThaRatChick

I'm in WI, so it does get pretty cold. I also have a very large rabbit cage, fitted with wire mesh (it was supposed to be for my rats after introductions, but they won't get along!), that cage should work quite well. He usually holds the poops until i set him down. *i dont have him, i just go over there a lot* And even if he poops, so what? Just wipe it up with a washcloth. 

My rats hide their food, but i just leave it and let fill their food when i know that don't have any hidden lol. My rats prefer their hammocks to tunnels and other toys


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## Mindy

Yes, WI does get really cold, so I would at least keep him inside for the winter months, and I love you thinking, just clean the poop up. Your right its that simple. Your rats are inside aren't they? 
Stanleypidge09 your right, rats do get a bad rap. Of course I don't think I would want a sewer rat as a pet, but I've never had to make that decision but knowing myself I probably would. I had mine over 15 years ago, I don't think I even heard of a hamock for rats back then. But I have seen them now for ferrets mostly. I didn't know rats would like them. 
The rat chick, you sound like a great kid that loves animals and you can never go wrong with loving animals. Keep up the good work. I hope you get the pigeon. It sounds like you already love him. You will regret it if they end up eating it so go get it and bring it home, tell you mom that it is your christmas present. 

Like I said before the smaller cage will work as long as he has some time outside of his cage. Can he fly? If he fly's he needs to have a couple hours everyday of flying around a safe room. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

I'll probably keep him inside even in the summer, expect for a few hours during the day on warm days  I'm at my dads, but I shall attempt to convince my mom tomorrow, and hopefully get Jimmy then (we named him after the cripple on south park rofl). Anyways, it should be awhile before the neighbor decides to eat him... I shall update you guys tomorrow on the situation.

My rats are inside, they are spoiled ratten(lol) and i would feel so guilty leaving any animal outside, especially ones that aren't very cold-tolerant (rats). Most rats looooove their hammiks! Quite a nice place to nap!


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## Whitedove06

I adopted a splayed leg pigeon from a family that lovingly hand raised him for 2 years in August. "Peepers" is a wonderful bird with a lot personality. We've built extra wide perches for him in the aviary, he does fine. Although walking is a little awkward, he can fly to his perch, and he's made friends with my other pigeons. Hope your mom lets you keep him!
I used to have rats as pets some years ago, and I also agree, they make wonderful pets.
They're clean, smart, and interesting. Like pigeons, they've gotten a bad rap.
Good Luck!


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## Mindy

I didn't think you would have rats outside in WI, I don't think they can handle the cold. I can't wait until tomorrow when you find out about when jimmy can come home. Can't wait for pictures also. Even the rats would be nice. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

I can get him! My mom doesn't really care what animals i get, as long as i care for them. I won't be getting him for a little while, as i need to visit my feed store and pick up some food, bowls, and grit. I told my friend to tell the neighbor (the neighbors are her grandparents, rather confusing) not to eat him, so he should be safe for a while... 
Jimmy cant fly yet, but i'm guessing he should eventually learn to. He was born sometime over the summer. I plan on just giving him the large modified rabbit cage, as it has plenty of floorspace. I'm thinking of using newspaper, is that okay? I can use aspen but that would get pretty expensive, I'm already using it for the rats. And i'm guessing it will take a little while to tame him... He doesn't peck or anything (never met a pigeon that pecked me) but he isn't comfortable with humans.

P.S. I'm not sure if he is a he or a she... Is there an easy way to find out or should i assume


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## Mindy

That is great, I can send you some food and grit to get you started. Just pm me your address so this way you can get him quicker. Yes, just use newspaper, and make a little nest of an old towel or old clothing since he probably doesn't perch. Unless pigeon are hand raised they aren't people friendly. But with time he will get use to you. It doesn't hurt that bad when you get pecked. Glad your getting him. I can get the package ready tonight and mail it tomorrow. mindy]\

To pm just click my name above and I think its the second line down, to send a personal message. click on that and write. If you have trouble let me know on here.

You may be able to tell when they get older, but its really hard to tell when they are young. Make sure you get a water dish that is deep, like 2" deep.


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## Hillybean

ThaRatChick said:


> My rats are inside, they are spoiled ratten(lol) and i would feel so guilty leaving any animal outside, especially ones that aren't very cold-tolerant (rats). Most rats looooove their hammiks! Quite a nice place to nap!



First off I think you should also take in the bird...
The legs may be able to be fixed, and I think trying one of the ideas to correct it would be a good idea. If you cxould possibly offer full leg movement...try it if it doesn't work..then you'll love it the way it is.


I also have rats...a large variety of type (Dumbo,Rex,Double Rex, Hairless) and colors. They are awesome pets! 

Hilly


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## ThaRatChick

I went out and got some food (dove mix, as the pigeon stuff was in rather large amounts. The protein amount is 13%, this is good, right?) and some grit, and some bowls. Do you think he will tip over his water bowl? I have some deep bowls but they aren't spill proof... 

I'm going to try and get him really soon...


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## Mindy

I use a ceramic dog bowl so it can't be tipped over. I really didn't mind sending you anything you need. I can send you some oyster shells, because if you bought a 50 pound bag it would last you 4 life times and I don't think it comes in any smaller bag. Or maybe they can just give you a cup full. That would last you awhile. But if you need anything, I'll be happy to send it to you. No charge. I just know when I was young, I wanted so many animals and my mom and dad always said you don't have money for the food and they would leave it at that. So thats why I don't mind, because I would have loved to have the internet back in the 70's when I was young and maybe people would have helped me. I can send you some pellets also that you can add to the seed mixture. Because that also only comes in 50 pound bags. I send allot of pellets out to starling owners because 50 pounds would last a lifetime if you only had starlings. I don't want to push the issue so if you want me to, great. You can private message me your address, if you don't want me to thats okay also. I just always try to help any young person when they show such a interest in loving animals and caring for them. Its my way of paying it forward. I hope you get jimmy soon, the sooner the better, it is getting cold out there, plus maybe if you get him sooner you can help his legs. mindy


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## Reti

ThaRatChick said:


> I went out and got some food (dove mix, as the pigeon stuff was in rather large amounts. The protein amount is 13%, this is good, right?) and some grit, and some bowls. Do you think he will tip over his water bowl? I have some deep bowls but they aren't spill proof...
> 
> I'm going to try and get him really soon...


The dove mix is ok, you can add some split peas, lentils and barley from the grocery store to it. My birds love that.
They do tend to tipp over their bowls. Maybe you can look around in the dollar store and find some heavy ceramic bowls.

Reti


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## Mindy

Its found in the soup section of the store, Goya's is the brand. Also some popcorn they love also. Not cooked popcorn.


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## ThaRatChick

I got this grit 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753601(Canary/Finch/Parakeet)
Is it good to use? 

I'll be lookin' around the grocery store!


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## Mindy

The site didn't come up, but if its in a box and it looks like a sand its the right one. They also make a red kind, but since you only have jimmy it will be fine. min


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## ThaRatChick

This
http://www.petco.com/product/7841/K...-8381-DE11-B7F3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA
I didn't pay that much for it though.

*crosses fingers that it works*


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## ThaRatChick

I will be picking the guy up monday. I'm going to Omaha over the weekend, so i wouldnt be able to care for him on those days. I talked the the neighbor and he joked about how pigeons tasted good, but i know that he won't eat jim since i want him 
I do have a dog dish with sloping sides so it's spill-proof, that should work.


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## Mindy

The grit will be fine. I will add some of the grit I use and will put some it in the package, I'm sending out tomorrow. I can't wait for pics on monday. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

The pics won't be up until...next friday. My camera has a card, and at my moms i don't have a card reader.


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## Mindy

No problem, just whenever you can. Can't wait to see Jimmy and also maybe someone can help you with his legs, if they can be helped.


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## ThaRatChick

Oh, and I'm thinking of renaming him... Franklin. After FDR, because he had polio, and jim/franklin has leg problems. I like Franklin, it's a little more regal.


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## Mindy

Franklin is a good name, and if it ends of being a girl then you can call her frankie, or francine or Franny. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

Or Roosy (rosey)


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## TerriB

Congratulations on being able to adopt the roller with the splayed leg! I have a crippled African Owl pigeon, Archie, who walks on his hocks. Since he is so close to the ground, he tended to get poop stuck to his belly and vent feathers. Wood shavings were difficult for him to walk through/on, so I switched to several layers of polar fleece material and found this worked very well. It is easy on his hocks and doesn't snag toenails like the terry cloth loops in towels can. It also absorbs the small amount of moisture in the poops so they don't tend to stick to his feathers as much. You can use a tissue to pick up the poops several times a day to keep the area clean. Once a week, shake the fabric (outside!!! it really helps corral the dander!!!) then wash it. I have two sets to switch out but you could use paper towels while till the laundry is done.

If he's that crippled, I wouldn't bother with perches, just give him enough open space to manuver inside the cage as well as daily time out of the cage to work his wings - very important for healthy lungs.

Regarding another bird, I'd suggest waiting till you know the sex of this bird. If you ended up with two males, the crippled bird could be badly injured because he couldn't fight back or get away as well.

I know you'll enjoy your new pet!!!


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## Mindy

Tharatchic, I got you box out today. 12 pounds of stuff so you should be set up for awhile. I also put in there some Sevin 5% dust just incase he might have some bugs under his feathers. I don't know how well his old loft was or how many birds there was but I didn't want you to worry about them if he did. You just get an old paint brush and sprinkle the dust under the wings, just don't go near his face. Any questions just ask and someone here will be able to answer them. I also included a package of the barley in the goya bag so next time you know exactly what to look for at the store. Plenty of Oyster shells and a big bag of seed mix and a bag of poulty pellets. If you need anything else, just ask and I'll be happy to help you. Let me know when you get it. Have a nice weekend. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

I've got his cage all set up, and i'll use newspaper, as it's easy and disposible. In his loft now he gets poop all over is feet and body  But in the cage it shouldn't happen, because it will be cleaner. Is there some way to get him to realize his flying abilities? He doesn't fly now, he just hops around, but his clutch-mate(s) are flying.

I'm so excited for Franklin, and for the package! Should i do the parasite treatment as a preventitive? He is from a dirty loft with plenty of birds, but it isn't too crowded. Thank you so much!


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## Mindy

Thats why I put some in there because I figured he didn't come from a clean loft and I didn't want you to worry about the bugs if he did have them. I would treat him it won't hurt and just be safe. I also included the container it comes in so when you need it again you can go buy it at walmart or any feed store or I'm sure even lowes and home depo has it in there garden section. There should be enough in there for 2-3 times, I had a hard time putting it in the little holes from my big container. You'll understand once you see it. Its pretty cheap a small container is $6.00. But like I said before, just don't go near the head, mouth, eyes. You can look first for the bugs, but they are really really small. And don't worry they won't live on you. But since he is inside I would treat him. Plus if franklin isn't around other birds and doesn't go outside he shouldn't get anymore bugs after you treat him this one time. Any question when you get the package just ask. I wrote little notes on all the bags. 

Yes, I would just use newspaper that way you can just replace the newspaper everyday to keep his feet cleaner. Just make a little nest out of an old t-shirt or towel. I think once you get him and he is out and about in your room, he will figure out that he can fly. Some take longer to learn how. But I'm sure he will once you get him home. 

Your welcome, and again just ask and I will send out more. I can't wait until monday comes and Franklin comes home. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

Franklin came home today! He getting used to the cage now, i showed him where the food and water are and he is loving the nest! Tomorrow i'll give him a bath and after word ill do the bug treatment. Thank you so much Mindy, the package is wonderful!


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## Mindy

I can't believe you got it so quickly. Thats great. If you have any questions please ask, I was in a hurry so my writing is a mess. SO GLAD that Franklin came home. I was so worried that they would eat him and say o'well you should have taken him sooner. So I can't tell you how happy it makes me knowing that he is home with you. I sent a little box to florida and it took 10 days, I can't believe you got yours in 2 working days. mindy


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## ThaRatChick

I'm surprised it came so quickly too. I knew the nieghbors wouldn't eat him, he is a pretty nice guy, and even if he decided to kill him he would never get around to it! It was odd, there is an entrance place into the lofts that doesn't have pigeons, and they must have gotten some baby rabbits because they were just randomly hopping around, with all their baby-bunny-cuteness.

I was impatient, and gave franky his bath today, because he was dirty and had little toe-poo-balls, which i got off. I trimmed his nails too, and i'll do the dusting in a lil bit. I keep setting him by the food and water, and dipping his beak in the water. My mom keeps complimenting on how pretty he is, even if he bottom end isn't too neat


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## StanelyPidge09

Yay! That is very exciting that you got Franklin! I am sure he is loving his new environment. He is a very lucky pigeon to have you! You must put pictures up of your new baby when you have the chance  Congrats!


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## ThaRatChick

I got him in a very large dog crate, and he is doing great! I've seen him do some flaping for balance but no high yet lol. I'll have pics up tomorrow!


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## Mindy

That is great, as soon as you can you need to post a picture of his legs. Maybe someone on here can give you some pointers on what can be done with them. Is he warming up to you and letting you hold him? So happy you got him. min


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## ThaRatChick

I got a pic of his legs. He can perch (on his food bowl at least), but he is unsteady, he balances with his bad foot and his wings. He can sort of perch on my hand. He is at the point where he isn't in shock when i pick him up, but he doesnt like me  and tries to get away when i pick him up


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## Mindy

They all do until they get to know you. Unless you hand raise them from a really young age, none of them really like to be handled. But he will get use to the more time you spend with him. min


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## bluebirdsnfur

Do you have a picture of your new pigie friend?


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## ThaRatChick

Here's some pics!

Hoppin'









Snuggled up









Again









His cage


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## ThaRatChick

Chillin'









Legs









His leg sticking out









So pretty


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## Mindy

I can't help you at all with the legs, but I'm sure someone can. But I really enjoyed the pictures of Franklin, he is gorgeous. He is a very pretty bird. He looks so happy wrapped up. Thanks so much for posting the pics. Can Franklin walk at all? Or is it just one leg that is missed up or is it both? min


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## TerriB

What a handsome young bird!


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## ThaRatChick

Only one leg is screwed up. He hops by balancing with his bad leg and his wings. He gets around pretty well!


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## Crazy Pete

I just love this site, you people don't even no this girl yet you send food and all the best wishes a person could ask for "and they don't have to ask" I'll say it again your the greatest.
Dave


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## bluebirdsnfur

Awwww . . .Franklin is quite the handsome fellow! You have done a wonderful job with him, Ratchick. He looks great! He will forever be your NBF!


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## mr squeaks

I agree!! FRANKLIN is absolutely adorable!!

I wish you BOTH all the VERY BEST!!

Love and Hugs

Shi and the gang: Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## ThaRatChick

Franky's doing great. He hates me more than ever D). I decided to try fleece, because earlier this week he spilled his water (im not sure how) and when i dried it was almost impossible to get the newspaper off the bottom. 

But i got some blue fleece (3.99 a yard at hancocks!!) and his cage looks pretty snazzy! (I'll have pics soon) But he has a lot of empty space in his cage. Do pigeons like toys? What could i get to fill at least a little of that space, not too much because he has begun flapping a lot 

And how often is safe to bath Frank? He gets a dirty bottom/feet so i need to bath him, but I'm not sure if birds can get dry skin?


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## Mindy

I'm glad Franky is doing great. I feel like a grandma to him so I love hearing stories about him. The only thing that my pigeons like is a big mirror. You can lean it against the cage and I'm sure he will love it, mine dance and coo all the time in front of it. I wouldn't worry about the extra room in his cage you don't need to feel it up with toys. But you can give him a stuffed toy and see if he like it. Try anything, you might find out that they like something that we don't know they like. Just make sure its nothing to small so he can't eat it. Can't wait to see the snazzy cage all in blue. As far as giving him baths, you'll have to wait for someone else to answer that. But I think you can bathe him everyday if you want. Mine have bath water all day everyday, but they don't choose to take one everyday. What kind of soap do you use. I know Dawn dish soap is used on all birds that get in oil spills so I would use that. I'm glad your enjoying him. Did you see the thread by Altgirl about the pigeon with the splayed leg. I just saw it today, but it was a nice story and they have pictures of scooter you should go check it out.

The thread is called "splayed twisted leg" if you hit new topics at the top then it might be easier for you to find it or do a search with the title and find it. But there are pictures of his cage so he doesn't get hurt so you might get some idea's for franky. Plus its a very sweet story that has a happy ending like yours. min


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## StanelyPidge09

Hi RatChick!

Franklin is soo Handsome!! One of the prettiest pigeons I have seen! I am so glad that you saved him! 

My pidge, Stanley, loves to play with twist ties and rubber bands. I hide them all over the place and scatter them around the room and he seems to love running around and collecting them all. He brings them back to his "room" and builds a nest with them  It is quite funny. (I have a picture of him collecting them in my photo album.) He also plays with those little cat balls with the bell in them. He picks it up and throws it around. 

As far as the bath goes, Stanley takes a bath every 4 or 5 days. I set up a plastic roasting pan (I bought for like 2 dollars at Wal-Mart) with a couple inches of water. I set it up on the floor and after a couple minutes of me splashing my fingers in the water he will jump right in. If he gets his feet dirty in between his bath days, I just pick him up and while holding him swish is feet around in shallow water so clean off the poop.

Hopefully that helps


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## Whitedove06

hi all - For my adopted pigeon with the splayed leg, if he gets dirt on his leg(s), I gently clean it with a soft moist cloth. He usually perches on me while I do this. I clean his nails too.


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## ThaRatChick

I did see the thread with the splayed-leg pigeon. I very nice story 
For bathing i usually use dawn dishsoap, dawn (i love the animal commercial!). I pick at his feet every day to get all the poop out from between his toes. I don't think he would bath himself, but he does preen his neck/head/wings. He just can't get to his legs and bottom. I'll give him some toys, i have a lot of bird toys from the rats so i'll see if he likes them!

I got pecked for the first time today, and gosh i cant imagine how that would hurt anything! He doesn't like my hands near his face


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## Mindy

Hi TRC, believe me, if he wanted to they can peck pretty hard. He just doesn't want to hurt you. It sounds like your enjoying your new friend and none of them really like hands near there face or actually allot of them don't like there feathers touched. 

Have you ever given your rats golf balls? It is remarkable what they can do to a golf ball. If you ever want to see the inside of one, give one to a rat and you will. I'm still amazed by it. I mean clubs don't damage a golf ball but a rat can chew one into tiny bits. min


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## Jay3

Hello Ratchick, I'm the one with the little pij in the post. The one with the splayed leg. Scooter is my baby. He couldn't fly either, but I would hold him up and let him flap his wings, until he did learn to take off. You have to be very careful, and stay right with him, to catch him as he lands. He will have a hard time landing gracefully until he learns, and he could come down hard. I only did this in the living room, with my husband sitting in his chair with a blanket on his lap. I would hold him right in front of the chair so that he would fly to it. Soft landing ya know. You could do this over your bed. He loves flying, and once he learned that he COULD fly, he wanted to fly more. This gave him incentive to try to get up on his good leg, so that he could take off and fly. We worked a lot with him. Finally, he did learn to fly, and if you have seen the post, he just recently learned to stand and balance on that good leg. I exercise his good leg so that it won't contract. Ya know, grow bent, as it was always folded up under him. If that happened, he wouldn't be able to learn to stand on it. The cage has to be kept very clean, as he is always on his belly, and you don't want poop all over him. I wouldn't use newspaper. I know it is easier to clean, but for one thing, it is slippery so he can't really get a good grip to move around, or to try and get up. He can also get sores, as he is always on his tummy, and the pressure from the hard surface can make sores. I use those lambswool cloths that they sell for dogs. Sometimes dog beds are covered with it. And I have a hand towel over that, so that I can change it often. I clean his cage at least three times a day. It doesn't take very long. Shake out the top towel, and put it back, unless it is soiled. If it is, then I just change it. I do a Scooter laundry every week. I wanted it to be soft, but not so soft that he wouldn't be able to try and stand. He is too old for that leg to be straightened with tape now. It would probably take surgery. It has grown that way now, and would only hurt him to bend it back in place. 
With time and patience, he could learn to fly, and stand, and even walk. My Scooter takes steps now. It's just great. 
Because he uses that splayed leg to push against things to balance himself with, I also put a rolled up towel around the perimeter of the cage. It gives him something to push against to balance with. He used it a lot, until just recently, when he started to get up on his feet. That splayed leg is like a little hand to him. He grabs onto things, and the towel makes it much easier than newspaper. I hope you don't mind the advice, but I learned through trial and error. And this way works. He and I worked hard, but he can now stand walk and fly. He's just amazing. The more time you spend with him the better he will do. Otherwise, he will just sit there with nothing to do as he really can't do much until he learns to stand or fly. They don't generally do much with toys. At least most don't. But they do usually like a good sized mirror in their cage to look at. I think it's great that you have taken him in, and I wish you lots of luck. Just remember that the more you put into it, the more you will get out of it. You'd be amazed just what these guys can do. Your bird is very cute by the way. Please keep us updated on your progress with him. And thanks for giving him a chance.


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## Jay3

SCOOTER


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## Mindy

TRC, I think thats a good idea, exercising his good leg, so he will be able to stand on one leg. If you do that, maybe he will learn to fly. I'm sure Jay 3 will answer any questions you have so please ask them. Scooter does look great and happy. Love the picture. min


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## Jay3

Oh, by the way, make sure to keep your rats away from the bird. The droppings from a rat can make a bird very sick, and rats do kill birds. Just wanted to mention that.


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## ThaRatChick

How would i exercise the leg? Just extend and retract it? I'll go do the towel thing now. It'll be awhile before he is even used to me, so i'm not too concerned with flying now. Franky hops on his good leg, but does prefer to be on his belly. 

I am using fleece now 

And i would never introduce my rats to frank, i'm sure the bird would end up the hurt one, and the droppings of each are probably poisonous to each other.


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## Mindy

TRC, if you go and read post #59 by Jay 3 she explains the things she did while trying to teach him how to fly and how she exercised his other legs. Plus if you want you can pm her or ask her on here if you need help. She says she would hold him so he can flap his wings. But once he does learn to fly you have to right there so he doesn't land to hard and hurt himself. I think the fleece is a good idea, since he is always laying down, the softer the better for him. Your doing a great job and franky is adorable you saved this little birds life. min


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## Jay3

ThaRatChick said:


> How would i exercise the leg? Just extend and retract it? I'll go do the towel thing now. It'll be awhile before he is even used to me, so i'm not too concerned with flying now. Franky hops on his good leg, but does prefer to be on his belly.
> 
> I am using fleece now
> 
> And i would never introduce my rats to frank, i'm sure the bird would end up the hurt one, and the droppings of each are probably poisonous to each other.


Yes. Just extend it as straight as it will go. Don't force it more than that. And then fold it back like he would do to sit. You're lucky he can hop. Scooter couldn't even get up on his good leg. He'll really appreciate the softer bedding. He should get used to you. He probably wasn't handled much where he was. Too bad. Try to find out what his favorite seed is. They usually like safflower, and usually loved peanuts. Unsalted. I chop mine into small pieces. Once he tries them, he should love them. Then it will be easier to get close to him.


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## Mindy

TRC, there should be some peanuts in the mix I sent you. But all mine love safflower the best, those are the white ones. But there is barley in there also, but the safflower is alittle bigger than the barley. min


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## ThaRatChick

He picks through the mix to get the barley, safflower, peas, and lentils 
He leaves the pellets and dove mix that i had! Next time i'm at the store i'll pick up some unsalted peanuts and some plain popcorn kernals 

Today Frank decided to fly!! i was exercising his good leg for a while in my lap. I decided to let him perch on my finger while i helped support him in order to strengthen his good leg. Then he just took off! Thankfully he landed on a pile of jackets. Then i tried it again in my room and he landed on my bed. Soon my floor will be covered with pillows and feathers!!


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## Jay3

ThaRatChick said:


> He picks through the mix to get the barley, safflower, peas, and lentils
> He leaves the pellets and dove mix that i had! Next time i'm at the store i'll pick up some unsalted peanuts and some plain popcorn kernals
> 
> Today Frank decided to fly!! i was exercising his good leg for a while in my lap. I decided to let him perch on my finger while i helped support him in order to strengthen his good leg. Then he just took off! Thankfully he landed on a pile of jackets. Then i tried it again in my room and he landed on my bed. Soon my floor will be covered with pillows and feathers!!


That's great. And funny! I can just picture your room with pillows all over the floor. LOL. I guess exercising his leg was all the incentive he needed to fly. LOL.


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## ThaRatChick

I think it was wanting to get away from me LOL

I'll post of pic of my pillow-ified room! 

Right when he got in the air i yelled "My pigeon can fly!!" rofl


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## Mindy

That is great news TRC. The mix I sent you has plenty of popcorn and whole corn in it. I might have bought the white kernels instead of the yellow kernels I can't remember but there in there maybe just hard to see because they are white. Thats good that he learned how to fly. He'll get use to you, just with allot of time and patience, I perdict in about a month he won't want to leave your side. min


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## ThaRatChick

I'll get some new pics up.... thursday or friday! He's starting to become more tame, and looooves flying around. He also enjoys waking me up on the weekends, making a bunch of noise trying to hover in his cage


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## Jay3

Does he fly by himself, or does he need help getting up? 
Does he stand at all yet?


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## Mindy

Thanks for the update with Franky. Everything sounds like its going great. Can't wait for the pics and Enjoy the time off with little franky and have a great holiday. min


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## doveone52

Props to you, young lady, for saving this guy's life! My daughter was also a rat lover. She saw Secret of Nimh when she was about 3yo and was hooked from then on. I still shiver when I think of some of her pets! Sidney was an enormous white rat whose "cahones" drug the ground when he walked-or more accurately waddled! Anyway, if you haven't seen the movie, you might like it!


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## ThaRatChick

He can fly by himself, he enjoys hovering around his cage. He does stand, he stands better with the aid of his wings. 

I've never seen the movie, but i have read the book. I like the story  I got my first rat (a male who also had very large boy-rat-parts lol) from a friend who found him in his garage. He came when called already and my friend didn't want to feed him to his snake so he gave him to me. I've been hooked ever since! I do prefer males to females, even with their parts. I find them less hyper and bigger/more squishy


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## doveone52

Squishy, eh! No accounting for animal love, I suppose. Rats do seem to be surprisingly intelligent. Just wash your hands-a lot, OK? Keep us updated with pics!


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## ThaRatChick

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d


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## ThaRatChick

New pics!
Franklin is so much more messy compared to my rats. Gosh bird poop is not fun. Whereas rats just have raisins. I wash my hands more with Frank do to the poop issue...


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## ThaRatChick

I can see the new feathers on his head coming in, it looks funny  Theres the video of him flying, i hope it works.


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## TAWhatley

Thanks for the photos and video! Franklin is a most handsome pigeon!

Terry


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## doveone52

Yes, RatChick, pigeon poop is legendary! Also, kind of icky. That's a nice size cage. Could you measure it and get a flat about 1&1/2" piece of wood for a perch? I have a cage kind of like that and that's what I did. Flat perches are better for their feet. He is a really handsome guy! Good job!


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## doveone52

PS: His Mom is pretty, too!


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## Mindy

Franklin, is just so cute, and so are you. You are doing a great job. I agree, the bird poop isn't fun and they are really messy birds. I wasn't expecting it to be so messy either but you learn to deal with it and its good that your washing your hands a lot. Thanks for the pics. min


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## TerriB

What a sweet pigeon! He seems to be thriving in your care. 

Although some poops are scattered randomly, the majority are dropped at their favorite hangout spots. Sometimes you can modify their environment to make those areas easier to clean up. It's a bit more difficult with a handicapped bird. My Archie is crippled and walks on his hocks, so the occasional poop gets trapped in his belly feathers (which I check regularly). If you can provide them space to fly away from their primary living area, they will usually do most of their daytime poops away from where they spend the night.


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## Jay3

He's such a pretty bird. Ya know what he'd probably like in his cage? A large mirror. Most pigeons like them, a big one from a dollar store or somewhere like that. Males will bow and coo to the bird in the mirror. Kinda keeps them company. Nice cage BTW. Good size.


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## Mindy

I totally agree with the mirror. All mine love the mirror even outside of the cage, they are dancing in front of it. Even if you have a big floor length mirror just lean it against the wall by the cage so he can think there are other birdies with him. min


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## Jay3

What kind of grit is that in the cage? Not sure, but it looks like grit for small birds. Pigeons need a larger grit. Small won't help them much.


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## Mindy

It the Oyster Shells that I sent her. I also put the sandy grit with the food I sent her, so he has both. 

The only thing I was worried about was the curve of the water bowl. Can he reach the water without any problem. I use the ceramic bowls that size that don't have a curve but I use those kind of bowls for the chickens because they are much taller. I would just make sure he doesn't have trouble reaching his water. Since he has splayed legs is the reason why I'm concerned. I've even use glass bowls that you heat up food in, for water dishes. Little crock dishes. min


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## Jay3

Well pigeons need a fairly large grit. I think you're right about the water dish. If he drinks from the position of being on his tummy, then that dish would make it difficult for him to reach the water. A simple heavy crock would be better.


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## Mindy

So what are you saying its wrong with the oyster shells? What kind of grit do I need to buy and I'll go buy it. The oyster shells are larger, but in the dish it looks like she has put in more of the dust in there rather than the shells. I don't have the red grit yet, I'll have to have my feed store order it. But I did put some of the tan grit mixed in with the food and the oyster shells in a separate bag. Does she need something else, and do I need something else? min


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## Jay3

Mindy said:


> So what are you saying its wrong with the oyster shells? What kind of grit do I need to buy and I'll go buy it. The oyster shells are larger, but in the dish it looks like she has put in more of the dust in there rather than the shells. I don't have the red grit yet, I'll have to have my feed store order it. But I did put some of the tan grit mixed in with the food and the oyster shells in a separate bag. Does she need something else, and do I need something else? min


Usually the regular pigeon grit is given separately from the oyster shell. They can take what they need. I'm just saying that the other stuff, the sand type of thing, is too small for a pigeon. It won't do much for help with digesting the seed. I have used this type of thing in a pinch, when giving different antibiotics can't be mixed with pigeon grit, as it cantains calcium. Then I have put down course sand. Better than nothing. But pigeon grit is courser. If you lived closer, I'd bring you some. I have plenty.


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## Mindy

Jay 3, Okay let me see if I understand, I need a bowl for oyster shells and a bowl for grit and a bowl for food. Man, that is a lot of bowls in a pen, plus the water bowl. I thought it was okay to add the grit (tan sandy looking stuff) in with the food. I think ratchic has in the little bowl is oyster shells. It just looks like she put more of the finer dust stuff instead of the chucks. I wish you lived closer also, not just for the grit, just to meet scooter and the rest of the flock. lol Thank you, min (I am running out of bowls)


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## Jay3

You just want to live closer cause I have lots of bowls! LOL.LOL.LOL.


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## Mindy

You found me out!!!! That would be the only reason. NOT!!! min


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## ThaRatChick

Hmm, i could probably find some random wood to make a low perch for him, and i think he would like it.

Next time someones going to the dollar store/walmart I'll come and find a nice mirror 

I took the (huge  ) bag of oyster shells and mixed in a small thing of smaller-bird grit, but it's pretty much all oyster shells. The pieces are pretty big...

He can get to the water easily, there isn't that much of a curve and he does get to it from a standing-position.

I am also running out of bowls >.<


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## Jay3

Mindy said:


> You found me out!!!! That would be the only reason. NOT!!! min


LOL LOL LOL


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## Jay3

ThaRatChick said:


> Hmm, i could probably find some random wood to make a low perch for him, and i think he would like it.
> 
> Next time someones going to the dollar store/walmart I'll come and find a nice mirror
> 
> I took the (huge  ) bag of oyster shells and mixed in a small thing of smaller-bird grit, but it's pretty much all oyster shells. The pieces are pretty big...
> 
> He can get to the water easily, there isn't that much of a curve and he does get to it from a standing-position.
> 
> I am also running out of bowls >.<



Just don't mix anymore of the small bird grit in, okay?


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## Mindy

If its the oyster shells I sent you, they are okay to give him. They can eat pieces that big. They can eat whole corn, so the oyster shells are okay. Just put some of the bigger pieces in the bowl for him instead of the dusty stuff. Let him choose what he wants whether eats the bigger or the smaller pieces. Your doing good Ratchic. He looks great. So glad that he can drink from the bowl. I was just checking to be safe. But as long as you have seen him drink with no problem then you should know. Jay 3 needs to live by both of us. We both are having bowl problems. lol  min


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## ThaRatChick

It's pretty much all oyster shells, maybe he was just running a little low when i took the picture.

When i think about it... i do have many more bowls. It's like I collect them for the rats, so i can give them treats whenever without washing a bowl


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## Jay3

Red pigeon grit would be good for him. He needs regular grit too, besides the oyster shell.


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## Mindy

I will get some and send her some. I don't know what quantity it comes in but I'm sure its not a small amount. Or is it. But I'm sure she would have a hard time going to go get it since she is in school. I'll call around tomorrow morning at the area feed stores. min


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## ThaRatChick

I'll look around _my_ area feed stores 

I can always just nab some from the nieghbors too


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## Mindy

Alright, just tell me if you can't find some. min


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## ThaRatChick

I got some nice "medium" grit that seems the right size. All they had were 50lb bags so Frank should be set for life LOL! But it was only $6 so i can't really complain. 

Now he has his big water dish, his food dishes, and 2 small (matching) bowls for grit and oyster shells. Those bowls I made in art and they say NOM NOM NOM NOM on them, they were going to be rat treat bowls. But they are a bit hard to clean, so grit/oyster shells they are!

I also took a big mirror that was in the place where his cage used to be, and now the back wall of his cage is a wonderful reflection of himself 

I discovered that Frank loved to take bathes. He sat in the tub, flapping and preening and such, while i cleaned his cage. Then he got to snuggle up in a towel 

I think i'm going to try and make some little donut beds for his nests, because the old fleece thing going on right now doesn't look very attractive 

Well, I've rambled on long enough. In short, Frank is still doing great!!


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## Mindy

That is great news. 50 lbs of grit will last you probably 5 lifetimes if not more. But your right, it is cheap. What color of grit did you get? Glad Frank and you are doing great. Your doing good. You saved his life. Great job. min


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## ThaRatChick

The grit is gray.


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## TerriB

ThaRatChick said:


> ...Those bowls I made in art and they say NOM NOM NOM NOM on them, they were going to be rat treat bowls. But they are a bit hard to clean, so grit/oyster shells they are!
> ...


Bet those bowls are cute! So glad that Frank is doing well in your care.

Since your grit is grey, you might want to purchase some red minerals in the form of a pickpot or powder supplement. I'm not sure what the "red" is, but it's very popular with my birds. Here are the two products I've used:

- GLOBAL`S MINERALVIT $ 4.50 http://www.globalpigeon.com/productimages/fullimg/IMG1124197252.jpg

- GLOBAL`S PICKSTONE $ 2.00
http://www.globalpigeon.com/productimages/fullimg/IMG1124254585.jpg


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## ThaRatChick

I bought the mineral vit stuff. Can i just mix that will his grit or shall i break out the secret stash of emergency bowls? 

I made him another fleece liner, and one little donut bed/nest. I'm changing his cage today so i will see how he likes them! I'm working on another bed/nest so i can switch them around for cleaning.


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## ThaRatChick

I ended up getting 4 of the mineral vit stuff because there's a minimum order of $15


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## Mindy

Tharatchic, I will ask Reti for you and get back with you. I was hoping someone would have answered you by now, but thats okay, I'll email Reti and ask her myself. Thats really ashame that you had to buy 4 of the mineral stuff. Maybe the guy next door can use some and you can sell him a can. If you want me to, I can buy a can and you can mail it to me, but it probably doesn't make sense to mail it to me since shipping might be more than what its worth, and I don't want to trouble you with that. I'm sure it won't go to waste. I don't know how big the can is. Your doing a great job with Franklin. min


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## ThaRatChick

That's okay  Once i get the feel of how much franky needs, i'll probably just give some to the neighbor. Oddly enough, at both my mom and dads houses we have a neighbor who owns pigeons (different people). Each neighbor has some screw loose  One wants to eat pigeons (and has recently been diagnosed bipolar, he kept trying to give everyone gifts...) and the other shoots his shotgun, in the city, AT HAWKS and OWLS. Makes my mom so mad, once she ran to his house and banged on his door for a good 10 minutes, he hasn't shot since!


/rambling

I discovered that bath towels are the perfect size for franky's liners, so i will be using those unless i have clean liners on hand. 
I made him a cardboard and duct tape perch (its very solid) but have not seen him on it yet.


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## Mindy

I asked Reti, and she said she would offer him the grit a couple of days and then the mineral a couple of days and just rotate them, because that way he won't eat what he just likes, like the mineral and just leaves the grit. You should tell you neighbor that it is against the law and he can be arrested if he harms a hawk or an owl. Stupid people. Glad your mom got mad and showed how mad she was by banging on the door. Maybe she has stopped him for now. Lets hope so. min


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## doveone52

You are quite the creative one, tharatchick! You're inspiring me!


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## ThaRatChick

Alrighty, that means my secret bowl stash won't need to be broken into 

Soon (around christmas) i'll post pictures of the bed-nest and such.


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## Mindy

Can't wait for the new pics. Have a great holiday. min


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## ThaRatChick

I took a christmas photoshoot, so you all shall get lots of pics around christmas. Frank is hard to photo, its really hard to get the details in his head. And he doesn't stay in one plate very well haha. I'll probably post some adorable ratty pictures in another part of the forum


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## Jay3

Looking forward to seeing the pictures. He's such a cute little guy. I'll bet the ratty pics are cute too.


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## blongboy

yea save his or her life!!


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## ThaRatChick

The mineral vitamin stuff came today, and it'll last a WHILE haha. 8pounds of it  . I figured i'll leave the grit in, because i know how crucial it is, and rotate the minvit and oyster shells, i think that should be okay... 
I love the sound of his cooing, which he has recently started to do more often. It's such a pretty sound


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## ThaRatChick

Franky is doing great!
Merry Christmas!

























His rainbow cage-


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## Mindy

Everytime I see pictures of Frankie it puts a smile on my face. Really cute pictures of him in the basket and his crib sure is colorful, lol He looks so happy. I noticed the mirror, great job, mine do a lot more cooing and dancing in front of the mirror so hopefully frankie will to. min


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## Jay3

Those are really great shots. He is just precious.


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## ThaRatChick

Whenever i put him away, i set him in his nest after dipping his beak in the water (can never be too sure that they know where the water is hehe) and he sits in his nest and coos at the mirror, i'm very glad i put it there!

My dad's a photographer (macro) so i pick up some tips from him, even though ,ost of what he says is greek to me  It's pretty hard to keep the detail in the whites of his head.


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## Jay3

Well he's a beautiful little guy, and you have taken some great pictures of him.


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## ThaRatChick

Well thank you!

My sister said i should cover his cage at night, but i'm not sure... Should i? She is a vet tech in training and at her school they cover all the bird cages at night.


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## Jay3

I always keep a couple of sides covered. They seem to prefer it. More like a nest box. They seem to like to have the solid side to nest against. And at night I put a cover over the whole thing.


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## ThaRatChick

He does have 3 sides closed. The only ones that are open are the top and one side...


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## Jay3

Great! I'd put a cover over him at night. But I don't think it is a major issue whether you choose to do that or not. No right or wrong to it. My house bird is in the living room with us, so at night it gives him more privacy to cover him. Also keeps any drafts out. Makes me feel better. That's all.


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## ThaRatChick

Ok, I'll find a sheet then


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## ThaRatChick

Just a little update-
Frank is doing great! He still is terrified of people, but i can't expect him to turn around because he was basically feral. He likes to fly and make sure his feathers are spread all around the room. Oddly enough, he enjoys cooing after "attacking" a bird toy I have in his cage 

Just wanted to update you all and tell you that Franklin is still going strong!


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## Mindy

I love hearing updates about you and franklin. So glad everything is going good. Would love to see some new pictures also. min


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## mr squeaks

We are flyin' in to say THANKS for the update!! That's just TERRIFIC! 

Sending continuing Love, Hugs and Scritches to Frankie!

Shi/Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## Jay3

Thanks for the update. How about some pics.


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## ThaRatChick

I'll take some pics soon


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