# Help - pidgeon with broken leg



## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Here is the story: I feed pigeons at my window (4th floor communist flatblock) and yesturday one of the pigeons seemed to have a problem. I caught the pigeon and took him to the vet. Turns out he has a broken leg and is a little injured at the other one too. The vet said it's broken in a way that does not require intervention and that he will get better by himself in 2 weeks. The pigeon can fly and tried to escape several times but the vet said it would get eaten by cats. 

And here is the problem: the vet said he might not like the new home and may not adapt well these 2 weeks that he has to stay in home. So he said I should send the him to a pigeon grower so that he can be with other pigeons and take him back after 2 weeks. But I am afraid to send him there because he can only stay on his belly and would get beaten by other pigeons. He's a little smaller than average, probably a female and was often getting beaten by other pigeons at my window. 


So what do you think ? Should I send him/her to a pigeon grower or keep her at my home ? I keep her by the window at day so that she can see the other pigeons and move her on top of the cupboard to sleep. 

Also, can you please give me some advice about taking care of her ? I kept her legs in warm water for a little this morning and cleaned up the poop. What can I do to get friends with her ? She is still a little afraid of me. What should I show her at the PC ? I tried classical music and videos with birds singing. Should I show her images with interesting colours ? What would a pigeon like ? And how do I communicate with her ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for helping the poor pigeon, and taking her in. In my opinion, it is sufficient that you keep her at your place, since it is just for two weeks and you are planning to release her once her leg heals. If possible, bend a towel into the shape of a doughnut and place it in her carrier so she can rest the bad leg comfortably. Don't allow her to fly around, since the fractured bones need to be kept as immobile as possible. 
The healing will most probably take place within a week, another week to complete the rest. Once you have made sure she is flying around the room with good control, you can let her out again.
I would not suggest doing anything with her other than giving food and water, and allowing her to rest in her carrier. She will not like to be confined, but this is needed for her leg to heal. Any amount of handling/movement will only lengthen the healing time. If possible, keep her in a quiet dark corner.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Thank you so much. I did not think of putting a towel but it's a great idea. By the way, her leg is not tied - the vet let her like that. 

Are you sure that I should do nothing more with her ? I feel like she is getting bored just staying like that but if I think about it, that's the same thing she's doing in the wild anyway. 

Is there a problem that I smoke and she is staying in a smoky room ? How about weed ? Should I try to get her stoned to feel better ? I am asking because I know dogs get's quite stoned and I know some parrots that were addicted to alchool all their lives. 

PS: I do not keep her in a cage. She is staying in a little box free to fly away but she never does because she knows the room is closed. Is there a risk of her becoming too tamed in 2 weeks ? What I am most afraid is her missing her parter if she had any. It's good that she is staying at the window so that other pigeons can see she is alive. I know most they mate for life.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I've managed to make a form of pillow with a crack in the middle out of some towels  But I don't know if she is keeping her legs in the right position. She just stays there however I put her and does not try to move in a better position. Her legs just stay there inert.

Is it a good idea to keep her by the window where she can watch her friends ? Will this make her envious of them or happy that she is not alone ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The idea is to get her legs rested against something soft, sort of dangling in that hole in the centre of the doughnut shaped towel. You can just place it in her box, she might most probably choose to sit on it. 
As regards what makes her happy, in my opinion the only things that make a feral pigeon happy are the open blue skies and the companionship of its flock. The best you can do to keep her rested is to minimize your interactions with her.. I know you wish to keep her mind occupied, but for a feral like her, interacting with a human will be more startling and stressful than entertaining. 
I suggest to not smoke in her presence, no weed, nothing. 
Seeing her companions through a window can keep her mind occupied, and hasten recovery as it does for humans I guess. But if you keep her in an open box she will try to get out of it, sometimes even perch somewhere high up in the room where you cannot reach, or make you go around trying to catch her making her bad leg worse. So it is best to keep her contained I feel. After all, its just for a few days, and hopefully she will be back to being a free bird.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Omg you are right. I should try to interact with her to a minimum and not touch her so much. I have a pair of european collared doves that made their nest on my balcony and are at the 8th generation of cubs. I never attempted to touched them or ineract too much. After 1,5 years they are still afraid and breathing uneasy when they interact with me sometimes. When I put food for them I have to guard them untill they eat against the huge pigeon flock that would eat the food otherwise. They do not run away when I chase the others and understand what I am doing but still are too afraid to interact too much even though they understand I am a friend.

I thought pigeons are domestic and that they work differently. At least they are domestic enough not to get a hearth attack from such an adventure like a european collared dove would have done.


About running around... she really is not running around at all. She understood the "window" idea and that the room is closed. But when she stayed today at the window she tried to push herself into the window a couple of times when I tried to move her out of the box to clean it. This is probably because of what you said about not touching them too much. She tried to make a runaway at the vet too probably because of the stress. I don't know why she is not running around the room at all except when stressed. She was always the boldest of the pigeon folk because that was the only way for her to get food been the weakest of them.

Are you sure there is no problem in keeping her instead of sending to a pigeon grower ? As I said, there might be risks in sending her there and she is not causing any troubles. 

And another thing: Because she can't stand up or move around too much, she got a little dirty of poop. I tried to wash her this morning but not all can be washed. She should be cleaning herself in a normal situation. Is this going to be a problem ? Should I put her in the bath tub like a duck ? I mean with very little watter, just a little upper than her legs and leaver here there for some time ? Is there a risk in her not been clean enough ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Considering she just needs rest for two weeks, I cannot think how the situation might be better off at the pigeon grower/rehabber. If she is not able to stand up, she might have poop stuck on her vent, which you can clean gently using a cotton swab dipped in warm water. They usually are not affected by standing in a bit of mess most of the time, so you need to clean the bedding/bottom of the box only like once a day...try to make the cleaning as quick and quiet as possible. Like if the box has an open bottom, you can place newspapers there and replace them with new ones without having to take her out. 

About her legs, Could you post a picture of them? Are they both pink in colour? Is she ever trying to bear weight on them? Does she grasp your finger when you touch her toes?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

She doesn't move around too much not even in the box and doest not stand up at all not even on one leg so I have to clean her too once a day in the morning when I change the rag. 

About the leg... she does not grasp the finger when I touch them. Not with any one of them. But the vet said just one foot is broken. She can push a little with the one that is not broken but can't stand on it. I think they are pink but have a green bruise where the toes meet and the ankle where the left foot is broken. Should I do anything in particular about them ? I kept the shower with little warm water on them for 2 minutes today. I am thinking is putting her in a bowl with little warm water like a duck. In this way she would also get more clean. Would that be a good idea ? 

What do you mean she can't stand up because she has poop stuck on her vent ? Is this not because of the other leg been a little damaged too ? How can I fix the problem then.

She does not have power to take off using her legs so probably that's another reason why she;s not flying around too much. It take big effort for her to take off. Her leg is not fixed with anything, the vet let her like that. Do you think it should be fixed ? I also heard they need small rocks to help digest the grain. Should I get some small little rocks ? I think she did not eat too much today but I have no idea how much she is supposed to eat.

Thank you so much for your help


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Could the vet said that because she had no time for me ? Maybe that's why she insisted to take him to a pidgeon grower. If the leg should have been fixed, then could this still be done at 2 days after the incident ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Pigeon fractures heal amazingly fast, like in 2-3 days, so it is important to keep the fractured segments aligned using a splint. It is possible the vet had no prior experience doing this, or the fracture is in a location difficult to splint, or the fracture is in a location where healing takes place quickly even without a splint. The fact that she is pushing with the good leg is a good sign...nerve activity is good in that leg.
Pigeon usually poop standing, so the poop never sticks to their butt. But now that she cannot use her legs, she is always sitting while pooping, and this makes the poop stick to her behind. You can just wipe it off with a moist cotton pad. 
Pigeons usually bathe by themselves in any little pool of water they find. But now with a fractured leg, it is more important to rest than to be clean. 
See if you can locate the fracture by gently running your fingers along her leg, starting from the end held against the belly. You can do it simultaneously for both legs, so you can compare. If you find a point where it feels like jagged edge of a broken bone, that will be the fracture site. You can also apply a splint of your own, by aligning the broken bones and taping it to something sturdy like an icecream stick. Please see my post for my pigeon who had a femur fracture some time back. Please note the instructions given by AndreiS..he is also from Romania...for splinting on your own.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/pigeon-with-broken-femur-78257.html
Please give her some sort of calcium supplement, and few minutes of sunshine everyday. It will speed up healing. Placing the legs in warm water can help with circulation, but I'm wondering if it will stress her out. Struggling can cause the fusing bones to break again, and make it more painful.
It is quite difficult to contain a bird with fracture, unlike a dog or cat, because of the ability to fly. They can infact fly even without using legs for lift off, so maybe she will fly one day when you are not expecting her to. This is why I suggested having her in a closed container, so there is very less movement.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The small rocks is actually called grit, you can buy them from pet stores and mix a little with her food.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

There is not really an option for me to try and fix her leg. That would require several well trained persons judging by how nervous she was at the vet. The vet said the fracture is in the upper part of the leg and if it would have been lower it would have required fixing. The vet seemed to be a good person and did not even take any money but she was also a busy vet so she might have wanted to get rid of me. But I asked many times about the leg if it's ok not to fix it and she said yes. I tested today again she still does not grab my finger with any of her legs. She has a bruise where the toes meet at the good foot too. I'll go to the vet today without the pigeon and see what she says. I forgot to mention but she is probably 1 year old because she comes at my window since she was little.

Today, I put her in a bowl with little warm water for 15 min and she just stayed there like a duck. She did not move her feet under water, she just stand there floating like a duck. Should take the bowl in my room and keep her there for longer periods of time ? There is no pressure on her legs when in water and it doesn't seem to bother her. 

I'll buy pigeon food and rocks today. I heart they have that at any vet. But you said something about calcium and minerals - are those included in the pigeon special food or should I take something separate ?

Again, thanks so much for your help. It's the first time I am helping a bird. One month ago a kid brought a collared dove cub 1 hour after the 2 in the nest flew away. So I thought it was one of them and put him in the nest. He breath hard for 4 hours and did not calm down, like a human having a panic attack and died


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please don't put him in water. The water gets cold and that will not help him. Just make a towel donut for him to sit in, and hope for the best as far as healing. Let him rest the leg and heal.

You can buy Hi-Calcium grit. Or grit and oyster shells to put out for the bird. The grit helps him to digest by helping him to grind up the seed, and the oyster shell will break up and give him calcium. Put them in a separate dish from the food. Don't mix them. And water in a small crock that he can drink from but won't knock over.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can't you get hold of a small budgie cage or something to keep her in while she is healing? Put in soft bedding and a mirror to keep her company with food and water closeby to minimize her activity. The more active she is right now, the longer it might take for her to recover from the injury.

If there's poop stuck to her bottom, just put a soft towel over her head with the rear end sticking out and clean with warm water and cottonwool. 

Please don't send her to a pigeongrower, she will get bullied by the other pigeons. As suggested, minimize your contact with her.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

My pigeon's fracture was also high up in the leg, the femur. It is a difficult location to splint, though my pigeon's leg got splinted anyway. I think the vet is right, she just needs to rest. It can result in a malunion, and the leg might be bent in future, but hopefully she will regain use of that leg. 
I read somewhere about some sort of aquatic therapy can be tried for the pigeon, the pigeon is put in a sling with its legs dangling in water. But it can get uncomfortable even for a pet pigeon if done for long periods of time. If the water is warm, and your pigeon seems to be comfortable staying in it, I would suggest you allow her( just my suggestion, I always go by my gut instinct, so I suggest you use yours). The presence of water is known to heal fractures and increase mobility in humans too. You can also put a pinch of epsom salt (or plain old salt will do).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It isn't the presence of water that helps to heal. It is the way the muscles get exercised in the water. This bird needs to be left alone and quiet to rest and heal. Not a lot of handling.
Doesn't need exercising right now.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> It isn't the presence of water that helps to heal. It is the way the muscles get exercised in the water. This bird needs to be left alone and quiet to rest and heal. Not a lot of handling.
> Doesn't need exercising right now.


*THIS ^ ^ ^*


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I tried both yesterday and totay to buy rocks and food but I was late. I will get them tomorrow in the 4th day... She has only eaten grain, bread and a little "mamaliga" made of maze until now... I hope it is not too late. Her legs are a little better today but still a long way to go. I hope it will get unioned well because she also stayed with no towel under her for almost a day in the beginning. 

Staying at the window turns out to be very good. She does her best to keep the other pigeons around after they eat. She pretends to be eating so that they try to get in pushing through the window and stay around more. There were a couple of pigeons who danced around for her. Also, this guy is the only thing she likes watching at the PC : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR-moALgU5Q


About the water I don't know what to say. This was the second day I put her in a bowl and she just floats there like a duck. She does not move her legs under water yet, she just floats and does not try to run away. I am actually thinking if she should stay like that for a longer time because floating in the water is not putting any pressure on the legs. Should I put her in the barthtube to float for an hour or so ? Are pigions know for liking to float like that ? She does not seem bothered or scared at all but she does not look particulary happy or surprised. She just floats like that completely indifferent. Or maybe she just doesn't want to wet her wings. Maybe after the legs will heal and she will need exercise it would be a good idea to put her in the bathtub.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please just keep her quiet and dry for now. She is in pain. That is why she isn't reacting and doesn't seem bothered or scared. She is in pain and needs rest and not handling.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Omg I think the leg resulted in malunion. I was not able to make a picture but I made a drawing. I don't understand why the vet told me so sure of herself it is gona be ok and not to splint it. What can be done from now ? Can I take her to the vet to broke and fix her leg again ? I am sure something can be done. How much would such an operation cost ? 


Here is the drawing... it's not severely malunioned but sure enough it is malunioned.....


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

HELP HELP HELP I phoned some pigeon growers and they said to leave her like that cause there will be no problems. But I do not want to leave her like that. 

Can something be done at this point ? The leg is still not solidified. It's in the 5th day and she did not eat calcium or pigion food untill this point, just grain. So maybe there is time to splint it. 

Should I take her to a pigeon grower to splint the leg ??? The guys I talked to were not very sure on themselves, they did not look like experts. Should I go and splint the leg or would that be a bad idea in the th day??? Please urgent help. I need to know fast if I should go or not


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, you are really expert with pigeon leg and foot problems. Any suggestions?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I just came from the vet. They put the leg in gypsum and also treated it a little because it was very inflated. She stayed for 5 days with the leg inflated. I have no idea why they did not put her in gypsum from the start and said she's just fine like that, probably because they were busy. 

The thing cost just 8$ + 15$ weekend tax. They said to take it off if I see the leg get inflated or her becoming too depressed. At the moment, the only difference is that she stays with her eyes closed. The vet also said she was quite tamed. I hope she will not get too depressed this period. 

How will I know if she becomes too depressed ? When she was very upset at the ved she did stuff like eating or picking at things clearly angry. What other signes do they make when becoming depressed ? Will the leg be just as new giving the fact that 5 days have passed, the lag was inflamated and she ate only grain all this this time ?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I think the thread itself is giving good advice from assorted members here. My knowledge extends and depends on what the Avian Vets and Vet Hospitals share with me about my different pigeons with leg problems that I have brought there. I am far from a expert here 
Hope everything works out okay for this wild pigeon and the owner needs to do some research about pigeons and feeding and grit and bathing but you members are helping the person gain knowledge to the best of your abilities. The picture of the cage dancing with that foot does not look too bad and the pigeon will get stronger and do well I think.
Keep up the good work with the posting everybody and I have no suggestions at this time. Thanks cwebster with your nice comment but I depend on Avian Vets and they help me take care of the problems of pigeon's feet..lol lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The leg really needed to be set at the time of injury or shortly there after. Birds bones do begin to heal quickly. I believe too much time has passed to change to way the leg is healing. And the vet should have given something for pain also. If he is just sitting with eyes closed, not a good sign. The splint could be hurting him a lot.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Can you ask the vet for meloxicam or something for the pain?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

She is not standing there with her eyes closed. She stand like that for a little after coming home from the vet. I mean in the way a sleepy pigeon would close his eyes. She did this before sometimes but very little. This might also be because of the food witch consisted only of grain. Finally I managed to get special pigeon food and grit. I do not understand why the special pigeon food has corn seeds in it. They are way too big for a pigeon. 

About the pain - the vet used a substance, probably even meloxicam on borth her legs and then put the gypsus on. It was a orange-brown substance like oil or vaseline. She doesn't appear to show signs of pain. She is quite tame and the vet said that too. He "groweled" on a couple of ocasions after coming from the vet + appearing sleepy for a while but nothing more than that. Is there anything I can buy for pain ? How would I apply that on the leg if it is in the gypsus ? 

Are you sure the leg can not straighten now after 5 days ? The vet seemed confident it would get better. The leg was inflated for this time and she did not eat calcium. The vet said she put the gypsus pretty straight. Is there a chance for the leg to get just like new ? 

Thank you so much guys. You were the only guys that helped me. You and a romanian guy president of the national pigeon asociation. When I made my last post I was quite panicked and phone a lot of pigeon growers from my city that I found on the internet. None of them seemed too sure on themselves so I found the national pigeon association on google and phoned the number on a sunday. The guy told me very sure on himself that I have to go with the pigeon to the vet right now. I can not understand why the vet first told me that there is no need to splint it. I asked 4-5 times and she said there is no need for that and just keep her home for 2 weeks. It's also bad that I did not even have the idea to put her on a towel until second day when I posted here. Thanks so much for your help guys things would have been way worse without you. 

PS: The vet said I should check if the leg gets too inflated in the gypsus. If this happens while I sleep, will the pigeon let me know ? Will she make some noise or something ?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I checked out the date I made my first post and turned out there were just 4 days not 5. I do not know if the leg was inflated all the time or just some times. She did not show sings of stress. What do you think about the oil-like substance that the vet used on her legs and put the gypsus on top of that ? Shouldn't the oil substance got cleaned up before puting the gypsus ? 

Is there a chance to straighten the leg at this point ? Maybe it did not link up yet because of lack of calcium and the leg been inflated. What do you think ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You will just have to watch and see if it does get any better after being set. How do you even know how long the leg was injured before you saw it?
No idea what they put on the leg, but what cwebster meant by a pain med, was something you give by mouth. The bird has to be in pain with a break in her leg. She is acting tame because she isn't well. That is normal. Be sure to watch for swelling of the leg. She will not be able to tell you if this happens. You must watch for it. If this happens, the circulation can be cut off, and the bird could lose the leg or foot. A picture of the wrap on the leg?

As far as the large corn, yes it is big. and my birds don't like it, but some actually do eat it.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I assume the leg was broken that day because she eats at my window and there were no problems a day before. I don't think she would have survived anyway more than a couple of hours having such a dificult time to lift off and fly. I checked the leg 1,5 hours ago. Should I disturb her and check the leg in the middle of the night too or just in the morning ? This can happen all the time or just in the first day ? I'll try to make a picture tomorrow. (it's night now) 

I can't understand what was in the first vet mind. Probably because I said she is a feral pigeon she thought I wouldn't have been willing to pay the 8$ and try to make it for free. That's what people do with feral animals and judged it's not as big of a problem as a dog or a cat. So she insisted to take her to a pigeon grower. This plus the fact that it's a very busy vet. I saw a woman do just that with a cat while I was standing in line. And people don't even consider the vet is doing something optional, they go there like it's their duty. They have this communist mentality that everything should be for free. I was at the same vet today but did not tell the vet that I met today about that because I think the first vet was a good intended person. She did not ask for 15$ consultation as other vets ask despite been top 3 vet clinics in this 300k enhabitants city. One of the vets I phoned today tried to rob me of 15$. They said to come tomorrow at a consultation that cost 15$ + what will be needed afterwards despite the fact that I knew exactly what I wanted and did not need a 15$ consultation and I needed help today. The clinic was also in top 3 vets. So I think she just judged the problem in terms of time and cared more about bigger animals. Maybe the romanian guy you said is here on the forum could enlighten us in this problem. This was the first time I ever went to a vet. I am surprised the gypsus cost just 8$ + 15$ weekend tax at a known-to-be-expensive vet. Also I should have payed more attention to the leg and understand what was happening. It's good that you guys asked about them otherwise I would have just waited 2 weeks as the vet said. This is so sad because I used to have phobia of phisical handicaps and I don't like how I contributed to this. I hope there is still a chance for the leg to be like new.

At least now I know how to proceed in situations with animals and never mention that an animal is feral to a vet. This whole situation wouldn't have happened if I did not mention that. I can't believe how stupid the situation is and how much the pigeon suffered because of it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Check the leg in the morning, several times during the day, and at night. 
Some vets just don't see pigeons as being very important. You must always say that they are your pet.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

A slight malunion is probably not such a bad situation, there might be a permanent lump where the union occurred, but the leg would still be strong. In my case, splinting for too long caused the inflammation to worsen and blood supply was affected. So I had to take it off, by which time the callus had formed stabilising the fracture. So I think at any sign of lack of blood supply (the toes getting dark instead of pink), you need to open up the cast. Btw, is it a cast or a splint (you mentioned gypsum).Will you be able to cut it on your own or do you need the vet to do it. Removing the splint should be done carefully, without applying pressure on the fracture.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

The leg is cast in gypsum and I will take her to the vet to remove it. Turns out I have an even bigger problem... The european collared doves nest I mentioned might be infested http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-infested-nest-81185.html#post855217


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

They do apply a lubricating gel before they apply a cast...I guess they do it for humans too. 

Sorry to hear about the collared doves, I don't have anything to suggest, perhaps the next time they hatch eggs, you need to observe them closely for any potential problems so you can take steps before it is too late.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Help. The pigeon leg got swallen again at 1 days after it was casted in gypsus. It might be beacause she moved around a little. I will wait to see if it will get better. 

The vet said to leave her like that for 1 day and come tomorrow if it does not get better. But I already learned these vets are far from experts when it comes to birds so what do you think ? Should I take her to the vet in a couple of hours if the leg does not get better ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Is the leg getting cold, or turning dark? If it is, you need to take her to the vet as soon as possible.

I suggest you ask the vet how far the healing has progressed. Bones usually start to fuse soon after fracture, and a callus-lump is formed where new bone is created. Once this callus is hard enough, the splint can be removed. This might take less or more time depending on the location and severity of the break. 
I am no expert, but I haven't read about bird's leg being put in a cast. Maybe others can comment on this. I am wondering if splinting would be a better option here, since swelling is involved, and a splint will not be as tight as a cast.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I have saw a picture with a pigeon leg cast in gypson on this forum. The leg is red, more red than the normal pink and is still swollen. I only have 1,5 hours until the vet closes. I don't know if I should leave her like that for the night. And I don't have too much confidence in these 20 year old vets with little experience in birds. The other leg is a little swallen too in the area where the toe meet. Is there nothing I can put on there o make the legs less swallen ? Why can't I buy the same oil-like substance that they used at the vet ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The oil - like substance is probably something they used to hydrate the skin in contact with the cast...it is anyway got nothing to do with the inflammation. I think you better wait till tomorrow, and if the swelling is still there, go to the vet. 
For the swelling, I have heard meloxicam helps reduce pain and inflammation. The dosage is around 0.2 mg/kg of bird. So if your pigeon is 1 kg, you need to give 0.2 mg once a day. Quite a small dose, make sure you reduce the tablet, break it into pieces, dilute it or whatever to get the dosage right.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I phoned the vet 1 hour before they close to ask if I should come and take the gypsium out. She said to wait till next day. Probably they did not want to waste time. Then I phoned a little before they closed and told them the leg is a little dark-red compared to the other witch is pink-orange and she said to take it off myself if I can. So I just spent 2 hours to take it out by myself. It was very very difficult. 

I do not understand what this thing acomplished. The leg was swallow before the gypsus, it got swallen in the gypsum and now that I took it off it's still swallen of course. But I did not want to risk letting the pigeon like that through the night. I am super super mad at these vets. They should have told me they are not expert with birds and don't want to waste time instead of speaking so confident of themselves. When I asked what can I buy for the inflamation they said nothing, just wait. Also, as you said, they shouldn't have casted the leg in gypsium in the first place. 

What should I do now ? I will ask another vet about meloxicam or something similar tomorrow (it's night here). I'm gona try to find another vet and get the leg splinted. The leg is did not straighten because of the gypsium, it's just as before. 

Already I am losing hope that the leg will ever be as new... The part of the leg with the fingers is rotated a little to the interior side, the rest of the leg is fine. Will she be able to live the same even with this problem ? I am so so so sad especially having a phobia of physical handicaps. And I know her since she was little and she was my favorite. Her mate is super cute too and comes every day to court her. She had such a nice life and is just 1 year old. This whole thing shouldn't have happened. Is there still an option to fix the leg through an operation ? 

Thanks so much or your help guys. I don't know what I would have done without you.

PS: She does feel big pain when I touch the fracture but I don't think she feels when I touch the fingers. Is it something good that she feels pain ? Can the leg still be straightened ?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Could you please post a photo? c.hert, where is our expert?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand how frustrated you are feeling, but I think you are doing the best you can with the resources you have. I hope experts here give their opinion soon.

I just wanted to say that I don't think pigeons view 'handicap' the same way we do. They don't grieve over it, they don't lose hope, they just move on and live life the best way they can. Pigeons can do fairly well even with one leg, though there will be more struggle to find food and evade predators. If it is just turned in a bit, I bet she could even use that leg in future without a problem.
Please look up the picture of the pigeon skeleton, identify which bone is fractured, and yes a photo will help. This site is a good one-
https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

And I think you can start her on meloxicam, it is safe for pigeons...give her for 2-3 days and see if the inflammation subsides.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I talked again with the person from the national pigeon asociacion and he recommended an expert from my city. I will go in 3-4 hours to get the leg splinted. I hope it is still possible to straighten it in the 6th day. I'll let you know how things go  It's good that I had the idea to phone that guy because nobody seems to have a clue about pigeons in my city (and it's a 300k enhabitants city)


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please let us know how the bird is doing. Thank you for taking the time to help him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Leg bones heal in about 2 weeks or so. Don't think it can be changed at this late a date.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I finally, finally, finally managed to get the leg splinted. It was a good, older vet that was also professor at the vet collage. She initially said that nothing can be done at this point and that callus had formed but after she saw I almost started crying when I heard that + the fact that I wanted to let her back in the wild + the story about her staying at the window everyday with the other pigeons and waiting to get out - the vet decided to splint it. She did not take any money for this and I insisted of giving 15$. At the end I threw 15$ there and run away and she run after me and put them in my pocket. Other vets I spoke on the phone that sunday 3days ago tried to rob me of 30$. Also when they splinted the leg, she told them to splint it in a different way - meaning that an unexperienced vet could have splinted it wrong. Even with such a benevolent vet it took so much convincing to get the leg splinted. 


When they splinted the leg, it looked pretty straight been stretched for the splint. I mean it's as straight as the splint when stretched - the splint did not need to be bent. Do you think it will remain straight like that after removing the splint ? The vet was a little more pessimist than the novice, ultra-optimistic vets I saw before. Anyway she said to keep it for 2 weeks. About meloxicam she said not to use it. (I don't know why, she just said: "no, she's not a farm animal"). About the gypsus she said it was not a bad idea. I saw pigeons with leg cast in gypsium on this forum too.

I feel a little bad about phoning 1 million people including the national pigeon association but it had to be done. Everybody is such a pigeon hater and it's so hard to find help. Only sad thing is that I pay so much money to scammers through my life and the people who actually deserve money usually refuse them and I can not repay myself to them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You have already done a great thing helping the bird. You have been "paying it forward" and so has the vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The meloxicam would have been helpful. I guess the vets over there where you are do not understand that it can be, and is, used on birds here. She probably didn't want to take any money because she doesn't think it is going to help by now.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Her poop turned brown + a little white today instead of dark green + a little white. What does this mean ???

Edit: I read a little about this on the forum. Brown poop a little smaller than before is supposed to mean "starvation poop". I don't know what to say because she eats quite well. I read it could also be because of sunflower seeds. She eats special pigeon food instead of grain for 3 days now and that contains a little sunflower seeds. Should I feed her anything else ? Like soft bread ? 

I will wait a little to see what color the poop is tomorrow.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

No bread, not very nutritious. Brown poop with a bit of white is good, that's what it's suppose to look like. She will produce plenty of these, as long as she's eating fine, that's all good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Starvation droppings are dark green. If the bird is having not many droppings, and they are small, then she isn't eating enough, or there is a blockage. Are you sure she is eating and not just picking through the seed?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I thought normal droppings are dark green and starvation ones brown. I think she is wating right and has a fair amount of poop. Today they were brown too. I will check to see tomorrow if there's any change


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

A week has passed since her leg got splinted in the 6th day. The vet said to keep it for 2 weeks. In the last 3 days, she started walking and flying around a little and is doing better. Her poop is still brown. 

Is there a risk in keeping the splint for too long ? Should I look for particular signs ? The never got swallen since the splint but I can not see the color of the foot because it's covered.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad she is doing better. The brown colour is nothing to worry about, it depends on the food she eats. Is there any way to see if the leg is getting darker? Is the splint coming loose (time for re-splint)? If you go for re-splinting, ask the vet to leave a small area of leg exposed, so you can watch the leg for changes.
Splinting for too long can cause problems in young birds, since their legs are growing and the splinting hinders growth. But this is an adult I believe?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Yes, she is an adult  Another problem is that the tip of the white nostrils is black and she is snorting from time to time at night. Can this account for just a cold ? I keep opening the window at night when I smoke and the room get's colder but isn't she sleeping in the cold in the wild too ? 

Also, today one of the pigeons that comes at the window had very big brown stuff on top of his nostrils. It looked like it had a big pigeon poop on top of the nostrils. The neck was not swallen. What could this be ? Should I put anti-cranker medication in the water for him too ? I heard it's not like antibiotics and is beneficial to the pigeons even if they are not ill.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

We really need a pic to know what you mean. No, don't give him canker med if he doesn't have canker. Giving just a little only builds up a resistance to the drug. I don't understand how you think it is beneficial whether they need it or not. You have said this before.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know what you describe as snorting, are you sure its not just a normal pigeon sound? The nostrils are not the white part of the beak, that is called cere. The nostrils are holes on either side. Do they look clear? Is she breathing without any noise? 
Is she putting weight on the fractured leg?

I suggest you smoke in another room if possible.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

@jay: The guy who sugested the ernoflaxicina antibiotic for the doves in my other thread said that about them. Then, I found out it's not like that at all and they are quite destructive to the other pigeons. But, I was speaking over here about cranken medication witch is not antibiotic. And I read somewhere that pigeon growers put this medicine in the water every once in a while because it's strenthens immunity even if the pigeon is not ill. I am talking about Ronidazol medication. 
@kunju: Yes she is putting weight. She is walking on both legs now like a normal pigeon for last 3 days despite having a splint. The leg never got swallen sine the splint but I was never able to see the colour of her fingers. Tomorrow will be exactly 7 days since the splint. How long are splints kept on usually ? The vet said to keep it for 2 weeks. The leg was broken just above the ankle where the fingers meet. Would it be a good idea to cut the splint a little and let the fingers out ? Might that cause problems to the injury ?

By the way, she now prefers to sleep on flat surface next to the soft "nest" and when standing at the window, she also prefers to stay on flat surface nest to the nest. Probably her instincts. She's also started flying from time to time in the room but is still shy to do it, probably thinks I do not like it. She also had her first full shower today and was not bothered at all by it, probably even liked it. Should I do a shower everyday or will she catch a cold ? I ask because I assume they wash every day in the wild.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The bird shouldn't be showered or bathed with the splint on. Water can get in it and is bad for the leg. If it has gotten wet then I would bring him back to the vet.
As far as canker medications. You don't just give them randomly. Some do give them in the spring or fall, or maybe before breeding, as change of seasons can be stressful, and certainly breeding is. Stress can cause the level of trichomonads to rise which causes canker. But you would give it for 5 to 7 days when you do give it. If you give it for a day or 2 here and there, you are helping the trich to become resistant to the drug. :And it is Canker.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Omg. Are you sure about this ? Should I take him back to the vet fast ? I dried her up pretty good but probably the splint remained wet. She stayed with with her splint in watter before too because she sit on the little water bowl in her nest

For how long is splinting supposed to stay on ? For 2 weeks as the vet said ? She got 1 day of gypsium in the 4th day after the fracture and 1 week of splinting starting the 6th day after the fracture


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's really good news. If she is walking using both legs, I think she is going to be fine. You can tell the vet she is bearing weight on the leg, and ask if the splint can be removed. Even after removing the splint, she will need some two days or more to exercise that leg and bring it back to normal. I guess all your hard work finally paid off! She is going to walk normally like before.
As Jay said, the splint should be kept dry. If it is wet, you need to get it removed/re-splinted asap. Do not to give her water for bathing till the splint gets removed.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes get the wet splint off. Not good to have a damp splint for long periods of time on the leg...it can encourage infection.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I just pushed hard on the front of her fingers and she feels it. I did this many times not. She can feel with the tip of her fingers of the splinted leg.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

If I ask the vet on the phone, she may say to take it off and not come with the pigeon because she is busy. I did not pay any money so I can't really insist on taking her back. It's quite hard to take her to another vet because I have no trust in them. 

Do you think I should take the splint of because the job is over ? She keeps trying to get it off herself. What signs can I check to see if she needs resplinting or has already healed ?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I just took out the splint. The leg has the same colour as the other and she can feel her fingers. But she does not have control of her fingers and the leg is pretty stiff. Is this stiffing because of the splinting ? How long should I wait to see if it disappears ? 

The shape of the leg looks quite good. It's almost as it should be. But I am worried about taking the splint off too early. Also, the leg hurts her a bit to stand on it. And both the angles of her legs (where the fingers met) have a little bulb now. This probably does not incomodate her but I don't think they will disappear. 

What do you think ? Does she need resplinting ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The bulb is the callus formed probably, it will get better with time but perhaps that bulge will be there forever. The stiffness will be there for a few days, she will have to exercise that leg back to shape. Do not release her yet. Let her gain strength in that leg. If you give her a branch of a tree to perch on, the stiffness of the toes will become better.

I hope she would not need re-splinting, now that she is bearing weight on that leg. But better check with the vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would check with the vet also.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

> I would check with the vet also.


The morale of the story was that better check here than at the vet. But nevertheless, I checked that day and she said to leave her like that. That's why I haven't been posting.

I waited a couple of days to see what will happen. The leg is still quite stiff and I was not able to make her sit on a branch as you said or something for the leg to grab. 

Today, she co-co-co-ed way more than usual. Instead of 0 - 2 co-co-co a day she did it 5-6 times today. I tried to co-co-co myself but she does not co-co-co back. She may be happy because she became way more independent than before. Today and yesterday she started to fly around the room. There are 3 places (window and top of 2 cupboards) between witch she flies. But now she is grunting a lot more if I approach her. Could this be because she is more independent ? It's good that I read on the forum in another topic to let her fly free and not interfere with her. 

The leg shape looks good and I will post pictures tomorrow but I am a little worried about the stiffness. Should this stiffness pass in 2 days or is it normal to take a week ? Is there a risk of her losing control of the broken leg fingers ?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The stiffness of the toes should get better. She hasn't used them for a few days, so she needs some time to get used to walking on that leg. The grunting is good, she wants to get away from you as soon as possible!! 
Keep checking her, when you feel she is using both legs equally for 2-3 days, you can release her.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Should I give her another bath ? She only had 1 in over 2 weeks since she is here. I haven't touched her at all for the last couple of days since she became independent but I think she liked he previsious bath. I dried her up with the hairdryer afterwards so she didn't catch a cold.

I don't feel that the leg has progressed too much since the splint was taken off. It's still quite stiff. I hope it will get better eventually.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes the stiffness will go as she uses that leg more and more. You can just place a water bowl near her, she will bathe if she likes.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

HEEELP - URGENT PROBLEM: Her mate started couring another female today at the window in front of her. He did this for the whole day and finally the other female has fallen for him. 

Should I release her right now or wait another week ???? 

3 weeks have passed since her leg got broken. The leg is doing better now but it's not 100% new. She stands in 1 leg from time to time to protect the injured one. She can move her fingers because when she stretches the leg (like birds do - wing+leg streating movement) she brings the fingers into a fist and then stretches them just like the other leg. However, she doesn't have too good control of the fingers. 

How can I tell if she is fit for release ? Should I wait another week ? She might lose her mate but on the other hand I don't want to release her after all this work and see her die.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The mate may not pair up with the other female, and if he does, there is nothing you can do about it. Some people catch the mate too if that is possible, but more often they can't. If she isn't ready for release, then of course she shouldn't be released. She will find another mate if he is gone.
How often is she walking on both legs? Does she always hold it up? If that be the case, then she isn't ready.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

She is walking on both legs since I took the splint out. She rarely stands in one leg to relax the other. Can her mate pair up with the other pidgeon in just 1 day ? This was the first time that he did such a thing. 

What other things should I check before releasing her ? Any signs of illness she may have except the leg ? I saw nothing suspicious except some repeated sneezing going on in some nights. 

Any other advice before release ? She flied a lot in the room after taking the splint off but the room is small. Can there be a problem with not flying enough ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You are over reacting to the males actions. You have no idea what he has been doing or for how long. They are not at the window 24/7, and you can't watch all the time. It has been a good while that she has been inside, not one day. I'm sure this is not the first time. Have you been letting her out in the room to fly a lot?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with Jay3. It is important for her to be totally healed before you release her. Having to find another mate is better than being injured and being easy prey for a predator. You have worked hard to help her so please don't jeopardize her after all that.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

They actually are standing at the window most of the time. They stay all day practically on this apartment building. I give them a lot of food to stay all the day at the window. Her mate used to stay at the window all the time at first but in the last 1 week not so much. Hea still is the one staying at the window the most. This was the first time he courted another pigeon at the window instead of chasing females out. The pigeon did not accept so easy. After about 1 hour the new female seemed to accept it because she trembeled. 

If this thing is happening, it's happening for a maximum of 1 week. Would her mate came back at her after 1 week ? Do they come back at all after mating with another ? 

About flying: she was always free to fly in the room but not in the whole apartment. She really is not causing any problems except some poop that is hard to clean. She's super funny wandering around in the room. Because of been such an OCD-istic creature she is usually staying in 3 places: on top of the 2 cupboards or at the window. So not causing any problems at all.
About the leg:? She has been here for 3 weeks. Do they take 4 weeks ? How will I know when it is the time to release her ? Should the leg be in better condition than it is now ?

Supper funny pigeon at the avatar jay


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chupachups said:


> They actually are standing at the window most of the time. They stay all day practically on this apartment building. I give them a lot of food to stay all the day at the window.
> 
> They don't just stay in one place all day. They fill up their crop and go roost. Believe me, you don't know all that they are doing. I'm sure he has mated with others as that is what they do. Doesn't matter. If she isn't ready, that is what matters. She needs to be flying often and getting the leg and foot back to as good as it is going to get. You need to give her time to do that.
> 
> ...


......................................................................................................


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

She is using the leg since before taking the splint off 1 week and 3 days ago. Since taking it off she is using it with no problems but it is not like new. She is not walking in a particular way or something like that. It's almost imposible to tell she had a problem if you don't know her. She can now grab with the fingers of her injured leg. 

But the leg is not exactly like the other. From time to time like once every 2-3 hours she is standing in 1 leg to relax the other. Also when standing down on the belly, she is standing in a way to protect the ex-injured one. Other than that pretty much no problems. Should I wait until the leg will be exactly like the other, impossible to tell the difference ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

3 weeks isn't long. I know it seems like it is, but it isn't. I would give it more time to feel better and it will probably come back better if given a chance. If released, she is going to be running around all day long and over using it. That isn't good either. She needs time. Stop worrying about the mate. They find new mates. Pigeons don't last long out in the wild. When one loses a mate, they find another mate.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> 3 weeks isn't long. I know it seems like it is, but it isn't. I would give it more time to feel better and it will probably come back better if given a chance. If released, she is going to be running around all day long and over using it. That isn't good either. She needs time. Stop worrying about the mate. They find new mates. Pigeons don't last long out in the wild. When one loses a mate, they find another mate.


*She does need more time, that is most important then her going back in the wild. Give her the time she needs to heal, and her mate is just doing what pigeons do, adapting.*


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

A strange thing happened today. I said that if I can't catch her mate at lest get another pigeon in for an hour or so. So I opened the window and let a male pigeon in while she was on the cupboard half a meter away. The pigeon entered and started eating from her food bowl. She came down at him and I gently closed the window. Then she went to him and started beating him up. I stoped the fighting and directed the new pigeon out. It's the first time she sees a pigeon face to face in 3 and a half weeks and that's how she reacts ?

Does this incident mean something in particular ? Is she considering me her mate ? I don't think so because she really does not like me approaching her and I almost never touch her. Another posibility is the fact that she had bread in the bowl and bread is her favorite food. I just hope she's not one of those crazy feminist pigeons...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

chupachups said:


> A strange thing happened today. I said that if I can't catch her mate at lest get another pigeon in for an hour or so. So I opened the window and let a male pigeon in while she was on the cupboard half a meter away. The pigeon entered and started eating from her food bowl. She came down at him and I gently closed the window. Then she went to him and started beating him up. I stoped the fighting and directed the new pigeon out. It's the first time she sees a pigeon face to face in 3 and a half weeks and that's how she reacts ?
> 
> Does this incident mean something in particular ? Is she considering me her mate ? I don't think so because she really does not like me approaching her and I almost never touch her. Another posibility is the fact that she had bread in the bowl and bread is her favorite food. I just hope she's not one of those crazy feminist pigeons...


*Her reaction is NORMAL...your reaction is NOT.

You let a strange pigeon inside? What are you thinking??? It doesn't mean anything you think...Of course she will beat him up, he or she is not her mate, the bird is a stranger-(she is protecting her territory), and it may be a carrier of a disease, why would you subject this bird to more stress and the possiblity of getting sick?? 
*


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Any pigeon will beat up a stranger in his or her own territory. Would not worry so much about whether she is lonely and listen to what Skyeking and others are recommending to keep her safe and healthy while she heals. Am glad you are helping her recover from her injury.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't understand why you are so concerned about her being lonely. Stop putting your feelings on the bird. It is a bird, not a human. It will take time to heal and get to where it needs to be to have a good life. That is all that counts right now. You need to focus on that. Don't let other birds in as that is just complicating things.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is your pigeon doing? Plse don't stop posting, all those remarks were made with good intentions.

Wait till she's at least able to put weight on that leg and be able to walk around before releasing. Even if she's walking with a bit of a limp, she will be fine. Then you can just open that window and let her go by herself.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

How is she doing? Would love to see a photo. Thank you for continuing to care for her. Wish more people were as kind to,pigeons!


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Nothing special happened, thats why I didn't post. I took some pictures but didn't manage to download them yet. 

About the leg... I don't know how to analyze it. She is walking around on both legs since before taking the splint out. You can barely see that she had a problem right now. I'm supper happy that she didn't get to have a handicap despite the leg been splinted in the 4th day. That's what concerned me the most. 

In 2 days there will be 1 month since I caught her. Should I keep her another 1 week ? How can I tell when the time will come ? Also, is she gona come back and probably sleep here after leaving ? She was free to roam in the room all the time and picked the nest herself. Pigeons are so OCD-istic, I can't imagine her not sleeping here after leaving.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

At night, she is doing something like sneezing from time to time. Sometimes quite loud. Is this normal or can it be a problem ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does she seem healthy in other ways, or acting or looking ill?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

In the last week her co-ko-cooo is a little more hoarse than usual. It's like she has her nose stopped up a little. But I never saw her breathing on her nose. The tip of her nostrils is black since forever but I think this is just the way she is and it's not a sign of illness. 

What do you think about showers ? She already had 2 showers in 1 month. I saw on a pigeon documentary that racing pigeons take showers and she didn't seem bothered. I dried her up very good with the hair drier.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you put down a pan or bowl large enough for her to get in and splash around, she may take a bath herself. Fill it a couple of inches deep with lukewarm water.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

She just took a shower so I checked her mouth and there is nothing yellow in it. She is using her legs normally and has big power to grab or push. But they got thicker around the area of the injuries (cause the other leg was damaged too). Can she injure them in a pigeon fight or something of that sort ? Should I be concerned about releasing her in the wild ? 

Today is 1 full month since capturing her. How long should she stay here ?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

It will be cruel to keep her confined in your room for the rest of her life. She did beat up that other pigeon, showing that she's back to normal. They use their wings when fighting, so I guess the leg won't get injured.

If I'm right, she was a regular visitor when it came to feeding at your window? When you release her, open that window and let her go out by herself. Keep on putting food and water down just inside the window on a table or something. Hopefully when she comes to feed in the evening, she will go up to sleep in her nest in your room. That way, she will have the best of both worlds.

I think she is ready to go, let's wait for others to comment as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree with Marina. But give her the option as was mentioned. If she feels that she still needs to come in, let her.
Let us know how it goes.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

HELP - I intend to release her tomorrow but there is a problem. I noticed 2 of the pigeons outside have something at their noses. One of them pretty bad. He has something like a red and white sponge on his nostrils. What is this condition called ? Will it pass away by itself or will it kill all the pigeon folk that comes at my window ??? Should I try to cath that pigeon ? Should I still release her tomorrow ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Without seeing the pigeons you are talking about, we can't know what it is they have. It could be pox, which is very contagious to other pigeons, and if the virus is bad enough, it can kill him. I wouldn't release him till you know what is going on. Can you post a picture of these birds?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I'm not yet able to download pics from my phone. There are another 2 pigeons witch have cranker for over a month. I thought they are old and that's how the nose gets but it's probably cranker. Their neck is not swallen, just their nose looks like it has whipped cream on it. They don't seem to be getting better or worser and the only symptom is the nose whipped cream appearance. In total, 3 pigeons with the same nose problem and no other ones. 

Is this cranker ? If so, is it supposed to pass by itself ? Is this something normal for pigeons like a cold is for humans ? Should I put Ronidazol that I still have since treating my collared dove ? I heard ronidazol is not damaging to other healthy birds but on the contrary, it helps them too. It's not an antibiotic. 

I still do not understand something. My collared dove that had cranker had his neck swollen, did not want to fly, his face was looking bad etc and had nothing on his nose. These pigeons have the problem only at their nose. So could this be another ilness ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No one can guess what they have. Without seeing it, it is pointless to try to figure it out. But it can't be good, and releasing the bird isn't a good idea.
And its canker, not cranker.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

What I am talking about is a nose and also eyes exactly like in this picture: https://www.google.ro/search?q=Nave...h&q=Navel+canker+pigeon&imgrc=5xLN1aZ2849-PM:

I think this is naval canker. I read somewhere that if the naval canker dies "the nodule can be popped". Is this dead naval canker ? Is this incomodating the pigeons in any way ? I don't think they are breathing on their mouths.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Babies get naval canker, and they die. There are many pictures on that link, so don't know which you are referring to. But we would still have to see the birds you are talking about.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

This is the picture: http://www.birdhealth.com.au/#!health-books/c10eb 

I've read it could also be respiratory infection


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am not sure from the photo that this is a sick bird.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If you are referring to the photo on the book cover, that's a normal looking pigeon.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I have released her a couple of hours ago   Remember the pigeon I let int the room and she chased him away ? I was correct thinking that he is her mate because the first thing she did was mate with that pigeon 1 min after release. 

Another strange thing is that I put food for pigeons at the balcony witch is not her territory and she fought with them but did not eat any food. I have no idea why she did this. Since then, she has been flying around but did not come to the window almost at all. In 1 hour it's sleeping time and I'm curious if she will come back here to sleep. 

About the pigeon on the book cover... how is that a normal looking pigeon ? Look at his nose and the circle around his eyes. Is he very old or something ? There is just 1 pigeon like that in her pack. He is also a little bigger, the biggest pigeon in the pack.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm glad you finally released her. She might not come back at all, but hopefully you will see her from time to time. That's the reason why we take in sick birds, to heal them and give them back the life that they deserve and that they were used to.

Re the pigeon on the bookcover. I'm not a expert on the different breeds, nowadays they breed quite weird looking pigeons. I think that white part on the beak is called a "cere" and in some pigeons it is just more prominent than in others.

Let us know how she is doing.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, please keep us posted on how she is doing. Glad she found her mate.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

A week has passed since releasing her. She is doing fine and made a boifriend. It's not the biggest pigeon around but he's cool. The big pidgeon with witch he mated after release was not her boyfriend and he's courting all female pigeons around. He does not have a girfriend of his own. Witch makes me question is pigeons are monogamus like european collared doves. 


Thank you so much guys for helping me. Things would have been way worse. I am extremelly happy that she has no phisical handicap and everything turned out fine. 

I still have some questions:

1) A million pigeons are gathering now at my window because I put a lot of food so that she could have pigeons standing around all day. There are a lot of pigeon feeders in my block and I don't think they like a million pigeons coming everytime they put food. I saw in a documentary that you can't feed pigeons too much because they will move around acording to the food. So if I stop feeding them for a while there will be no problems and they will scatter around ? How should I proceed with this ? 

2) There's an adorable little pidgy coming at the window now. He/she is white with black eyes and "piiii piiii piiii" non stop. I've never seen something so adorable. Why is she like that ? Is she an albino pigeon ? I will take pictures and make an effort to fix the downloading problem that I still had not fixed. 

3) Are pigeons monogamus giving what I said about that big pigeon not having a GF and banging all the females around ? Are the normal ones monogamus and the big ones polygamus ? 

4) Been a million pigeons around, I am trying to get her inside the room to eat and chasing the others out. But many pigeons got to eat on the interior side of the window because they just push in and don't get afraid. They got so bold that they even started entering another room where I never put food. Is this something bad ? Could they do this to other places and get in trouble because they got too bold ? Or will they just to that over here because the know the territory ? Is there any danger in this ? It's very hard to feed her without this problem happening from time to time especially since she needs to see another bolder pigeon eat first before she gets in. 

Again, thanks so much guys. I remembered how tensed the first days were and how little hope I had. So glad it turned out fine.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

So glad to hear she is doing well. Regarding the feeding: you can start by putting down less food every day, so that they will be forced to forage elsewhere as before. Will not be fair to just stop feeding them, do it slowly so that they can adjust to that.

The new pigeon is probably a youngster making that squeaky noises, and it will be nice to see a photo.


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