# Top 3 Bloodlines??



## Big O P (Sep 21, 2012)

What do you think that the top three bloodlines is and in what order???

Thanks in advance for the opinion's
Josh


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## donjose (Nov 17, 2012)

Been on this forum for years reading and now thought it is time to start posting. I look at the top blood or best blood being the same animal and I agree with Warren on this one.. Buy the way the search function works miracles 

JR

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/best-bloodline-out-there-52921.html#post575946



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> One of the major flaws in trying to arrive at what is the "Best Bloodline" is the fact that a fancier that is trying to duplicate a champion loft's winning ways by acquiring a bloodline from that Champion loft, is that the bloodline does not typically come with an actual loft, or loft location, or system, or fancier, or all the different things which make a winner.
> 
> Furthermore, what further complicates the data, is that once a fancier reaches a certain status inside the racing community, any bird that the star fancier owns, is then named after that star fancier. The bird could be a complete cross, or only related by way of a grand parent and will still carry the star fanciers name. Then to make things even more complicated, some of these birds can fall into weak hands perhaps for many generations, and yet they will still bear the name of the famous fancier who in extreme cases, may have died decades earlier.
> 
> ...


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

As to the last question which is best Chevy or Ford, silly everybody knows was and is Mopar!

Yes this is my way of saying you could ask 100 top fliers the question of what bloodlines are best and get 100 answers.

However since you asked I'll give it the old college try...

1) Jansens.... Every top bloodline now carries some of this blood in its make up so they would have to be number one.

next and this is just my preferance would be:

2) Staff Van Reets.... for short to middle distances, and

#) Steven Van Breman ..... for the long distances.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

You forgot to mention the stickalbouts,


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well if you are going to mention the jansen birds you should also mention Fabry, if you read about the Jansen family of birds the grand sire of his best was the half Fabry.
Dave


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well if you are going to mention the jansen birds you should also mention Fabry, if you read about the Jansen family of birds the grand sire of his best was the half Fabry.
> Dave


If memory serves me correctly Fabry was a good flier in his own right before the introduction of the Jansen blood to his Fabry birds..... But afterwards he was unstopable... so it was to their mutual benifit to cross the bloodlines. 

For that matter I don't know of any mondern family (bloodlines) of birds that have not benifited from the introduction of the Jansen blood. That includes Staff Van Reet, Steven Van Breman and far to many others to be able to name them all. Thats why I put the Jansen blood lines at the top of the list. The others are just my personal fave's.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Big O P said:


> What do you think that the top three bloodlines is and in what order???
> 
> Thanks in advance for the opinion's
> Josh


 One could further define this question as the best in the world as of this month in 2012, or the "strain" which made the biggest impact within the racing community over say the last 150 years ? The two lists would not be the same. The very best at this very moment may be unknown to current readers of this thread, even if agreement could be reached as to what the "best" actually means. 

With 300,000+ lofts in China, I am sure there are many families we have never heard of, and could not pronounce. The ones we do hear of, are strains which have been around long enough to have colonies outside of the Mother Loft. So in other words, strains which have colonies throughout the world, and thus known by readers on a thread such as this. 

The very best in the world of course can not really be known, as it is a very subjective list, typically only strains with a large commercially available population are even known. 

The very best, could in theory consist of a dozen pairs of breeders or less, which could exist in a small town none has heard of anywhere in the world. Someday very likely these families will reside in mainland China or some other similar place in the future.

I am pretty sure any "Top Three" types of lists, will reflect well known strains from an historical perspective only. As once a strain has expanded to many thousands of members, under the selection of many different fanciers, impossible for the strain to remain what it once was under the care and selection supervision of the original Master Breeder. Many very average or typical pigeons bearing the "name" of the original breeder, all contribute to the demise of the "strain" as one of the "best". Often what happens, is good examples of the strain will fall into a few strong hands, which will extend the life of the legendary strain, but typically the bird's change in some manner, to reflect the selections of the fancier. And thus the strain becomes known as XYZ's " fill in original's name" strain...in other words the strain name become hyphenated. 

It is an interesting academic discussion, akin to a discussion on what is the "best" of something. There is almost never any agreement on such discussions, because a great pigeon is never great because of any strain name assigned to it, it is great because of it's individual accomplishments. 

When it comes to individual accomplishments, I am pretty sure that everyone including myself, is unaware as to who and what are the top three racing pigeons in the world, based on 2012 racing accomplishments. Or for 2011 for that matter. Heck, let's even expand it to the top ten for the last few years. 

If some of those winners are members of the strains, said to be the top three in this thread, I would be very much surprised. More often then not, I would not be surprised if the top race birds in One Loft events from China to South Africa to North America, are indeed mongrels, or crosses. And thus not a member of any particular strain.


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## jason6814 (Sep 19, 2007)

This is what I have come to the theory of as well that most are crosses.....


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## jason6814 (Sep 19, 2007)

lawman said:


> If memory serves me correctly Fabry was a good flier in his own right before the introduction of the Jansen blood to his Fabry birds..... But afterwards he was unstopable... so it was to their mutual benifit to cross the bloodlines.
> 
> For that matter I don't know of any mondern family (bloodlines) of birds that have not benifited from the introduction of the Jansen blood. That includes Staff Van Reet, Steven Van Breman and far to many others to be able to name them all. Thats why I put the Jansen blood lines at the top of the list. The others are just my personal fave's.


I think true Janssen blood is long gone and it seems most use Janssen to cover a broad spectrum of birds and gene pools


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

jason6814 said:


> I think true Janssen blood is long gone and it seems most use Janssen to cover a broad spectrum of birds and gene pools


While the Jansen bloodlines (Jansen Brother Birds) of old may no longer exist, there are still many lofts that claim to have pure this or pure that. Heck there are even some lofts here in the good old USA that claim to have no new blood added for 30+ years. So if this is in fact true (which I find doubtful) there is a possibility that some mostly pure Jansen birds still exist.
But that was not the question asked by BIG O P. His question was what are the top 3 bloodlines. My point was that there are no modern day bloodlines that I'm aware of that were not at least influenced by the Jansen Brothers birds. That is why I listed them at the top. 
So Jason 6814 stick to the question or start a new line of your own. Or more simply answer BIG O P's question of what you think are the best birds.


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## Big O P (Sep 21, 2012)

Ok let me re-phrase the question. If you where buying a yb from one of americas top breeding loft's would you choose

1. De rauw Sablon
2. Creator
3. Euro Diamond
4. Fieneke
5. Kannibal


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Big O P said:


> Ok let me re-phrase the question. If you where buying a yb from one of americas top breeding loft's would you choose
> 
> 1. De rauw Sablon
> 2. Creator
> ...


While these are a good bloodlines of birds, I can honestly say I would not pick any of them unless I could obtain direct children of of the original birds. Flown grandchildren would be my second choice.

Then my question before answering which one to start with would be at what distances do you plan on specializing? and will you be concentraiting on young or old birds? While they seem like silly questions it deffinetly makes a difference as to how I would personnaly rank the above choices.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well if you were to chose for one loft races witch would you chose?
Dave


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Lets take a look at some other sports where animals are used for racing. Take the Alaska iditarod, most of the dogs that race are crosses, they are created by the people that run the race and the same goes with pigeons. There is no best one family of pigeons.


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## klondike goldie (Apr 20, 2009)

I think the best 3 bloodlines are the first 3 birds through the trap. Bloodlines are usually like Red-wing work boots, over rated and over priced. JMO


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## jason6814 (Sep 19, 2007)

lawman said:


> So Jason 6814 stick to the question or start a new line of your own. Or more simply answer BIG O P's question of what you think are the best birds.


Easy turbo 
First it doesnt matter what birds are the best if he doesnt have a system !
Second the OP needs to not worry about blood lines, he needs to get birds from guys or gals that are winning...Or order young bird kits from a Loft and select from the premium breeders that have produced race winners...
I was a Big name bloodline man before I was humbled by my mentor who flew some real old HVR and Van Loon lines he said I will give you some pair's to breed from and I said okay, well thinking that these pair's were old school not the latest and greatest stuff I spent about a grand own a couple pair of Kannibal and Hofkens and to make a long story short the free pairs YB out and out destroyed my high dollar pairs YB so to answer the question dont focus own blood lines focus on if they are winning or not.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Well stated jason,and very true Alot of times.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well if you were to chose for one loft races witch would you chose?
> Dave


That would depend greatly on the one loft race. For example is it a single race and at what distance or is it a series of races out of the same loft and again at what distances. There is no best bloodline that covers as distances all of the time. the what are the normal weather conditions for thae one loft race, ect. 

Do you want a overall tough pigeon that will come home no matter what it hits. If so they are usually going to be a bit slower than other bloodlines. 

Or do you want speed and more speed? Then as the distances get longer your loses are also higher. 

It just depends on so many factors, unless you want to give examples its hard to say what would be best of the bloodlines listed.

Of course these birds are members of other bloodlines and the breaders have just renamed them in order to sell the newest bestest thing...... reasearching the bloodlines you find newer versions of the old blood Jansens (oh my heaven forbid they should be that), Hofkins and Van Loons (both heavely influanced by Jansens). As well as some mixed with muleman (variant of Jansen) and Van Reets (also variant of Jansens). 

So with this said go out and find the best flier in your area and obtain some birds from them to form your base bloodlines. Cant go wrong with birds that are already proven on the race course your going to fly.

Then if you want to also dabble with "name brands" purchase the directs sons and daughter if you can or the best of the flown grand children. Then you can cross them in on the base blood from your local fliers. 

But always remember that no matter what the birds you keep have to produce the next generation of fliers for your loft. Dont keep anything (other than as a pumper) that doesnt produce top birds each and every year.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Big O P said:


> Ok let me re-phrase the question. If you where buying a yb from one of americas top breeding loft's would you choose
> 
> 1. De rauw Sablon
> 2. Creator
> ...


 If you mean buying offspring from birds with above names, I would say I doubt it really matters. Buy a whole bunch of them and race them hard. After about five years of racing you will know which individual birds are "good" racers. If you only select from winning racers to stock your breeding loft, then by the end of the decade you will have a better idea which line to focus on. The odds are if you buy ten of each line, with any luck you will end up with a few good ones after a few race seasons.


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