# Broken wing!



## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi all - apologies for the weird nickname - have never used this site before but came across it when looking for information over the Internet on how to properly care for my new little friend, and the server wasn't letting me sign up, so I was starting to get a wee bit frustrated.

So anyway, yesterday I was walking through a park with my partner when a grey and white feral pigeon skydived into my path. At first he was pushing his body around with his head on the floor, and one wing dragging behind him. Some guys nearby who were watching the pigeons said that this little bugger was attacked by a magpie. 

He couldn't fly, and was trying to find somewhere quiet to be alone. I watched him for a few minutes, and he seemed okay to walk, but definitely couldn't fly. One wing was always a bit lower than the other. I didn't want to leave him there as I know that he would be prey to feral cats or other birds as he was weaker, and possibly even some scumbag human who thought it might be fun to torture him as he couldn't fly.

It's coming into the winter months at the moment and it's freezing so my partner got a large box for a nearby shop and bought some newspaper and tea towels. We made airholes, popped him in and took him home. Checked on him last night but thought that the best thing to do was keep him warm and quiet and just leave him alone to get over the shock. I did leave him mashed up wholegrain cereal with milk and some sugar dissolved in water but he didn't touch it. 

We left him in our wardrobe in our bedroom overnight, thinking that the carpeted floors might somehow help to insulate the box. I wrapped tea towels inside so he would have something to lean on and we just let him be. I live in Sydney (Parramatta to be exact) and the RSPCA over here are quick to euthanase all injured birds, as well as any vet. I did ring up them, as well as WIRES, and was told the same thing. As pigeon's are not native birds in Australia, they are not protected under Australian law. I am reluctant to take him to the vet for that reason, and I am a full-time University student so I definitely cannot afford expensive vet bills. 

This morning, however, I got up early and checked on him. He is very perky and alert, which I hope is a good sign. He hadn't touched his food but when I put some breadcrumbs in the sugared water, he gulped it down - and had seconds - and then thirds. I want to give him food that will help him get better (nutritious etc). My partner and I are happy to look after him until he's ready to return to the wild. I will post some pictures with this post - he has walked around the box well with no problems or limps, although he is shivering a bit. I'm not sure if that is because he is scared or because he is genuinely cold. I don't have any hot water bottles etc, but I will fill a sock with rice and microwave it, re-heating every few hours or so to try and regulate his body temperature. 

His poop is mainly white and quite large, with dark green colours in there. They should be able to be seen from the pictures. From what I have read it seems to be healthy. 

His wings are sitting nicely on his back, and don't seem to be out of place, although yesterday I was sure one looked broken or fractured when he fell from the sky. I haven't touched him too much as I am thinking about taking him to the vet just so they can palpate his wing and see if it really is broken. I don't want to distress him until he's warm and getting stronger. If he needs a bandage, I will pay for that. I'm just not confident about bandaging his wing myself. I was speaking to a friend about it who says that one of her friends lives next door to a lady who cares for injured and sick birds and bats, so she has given me that friends number. It is 7am in the morning at the moment (I couldn't sleep as I was worried) and will try and ring her later to see if she can help out at all. 

His chest is puffy and his head sits on it comfortably. A couple of his feathers are out of place (one by his left wing - the one I think is broken/fractured), and one of his tail feathers. 

I have yet to properly inspect my new little friend, although he is eating and drinking ferociously, seems to be able to walk okay, is not bleeding from anywhere (although as I said, I haven't done a full-body inspection yet) and doesn't seem to be in major distress, apart from being frightened. He has pooped about 7 times since we brought him home yesterday late afternoon. 

I will phone the vet later today to see what can be done, but if they are just going to tell me that they will euthanase him, then I won't take him there. 

Any tips or advice would be great. Any antibiotics, creams, what food he should be eating, how often he should be eating them, how to check that his wing is broken, how to bandage his wing (if I have to), how to adequately care for him so as to ensure the best chance of a full recovery etc. I know that a broken wing can take over a month to heal. My partner and I have a UK holiday booked in under 3 weeks, so I am hoping that he will recover quickly, as it may be difficult to arrange for someone to look after him whilst we are away. 

Just any help would be fabulous. Especially tips on how to handle him. He seems very gentle, just frightened. I want to check for wounds, bleeding, breaks, fractures etc. but I don't want to manhandle the little one too much as I know that that can be really distressing. 

Thanks for all of your help! I will check this regularly for answers.

Michelle.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Someone will be along soon to help you. Would you mind posting your location in Australia so that we can try to find you some help close by? This does not need to be your home address, but your city or state would be helpful. Thank you!


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

My location is Parramatta, New South Wales, Australia. Attached to this reply are 3 more pictures of my little pal. He is eating from a shallow dish. I am soaking the breadcrumbs in the water so that he gets some fluids as well, but if there is anything that I can be giving him to get some extra nutrients in him, please let me know. 

I have to go to University this morning, but I will come home straight afterwards. My partner and I also have obligations to be out this evening, but I want to make sure that I am around to feed and check on him regularly. Whilst I am away today, I will leave him in my wardrobe (in the box, of course) with the door slightly open for air flow and a sock of heated rice for warmth. 

I don't want to overfeed him too much too quickly, but he is eating well and can eat by himself without being hand-fed.

Just any tips and help would be naturally wonderful, particularly in regards to fixing his wing. Is a bandage completely necessary if he is keeping it in one place and not trying to fly? Will he be okay kept in the box for too long? He won't die of boredom or sadness or anything? I know that pigeons are somewhat semi-tame so I don't want him to get too attached to being fed and cared for regularly, and not be able to survive back in the wild when he gets better, but I don't want him to get bored. Will he eventually get used to such close human contact?

Also, how do I change his beddings? If he is around his own fecal matter for too long, I understand that it will probably cause infection or disease. Is the best trick just to keep buying new tea towels and placing new newspaper down? Once a day? Or more? Or less? 

I live in a high-rise apartment 19 floors up, and can't check his flying abilities here. Any recommendations on where to check how his wing is recovering? I was thinking of taking him out to my local park in a couple of weeks to see how he goes. If he can't fly still, I will just take him home again for more rest. 

Thanks again!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Thank you for taking the bird in. If you have any seed feed, wild bird feed will do, to add to what you are already feeding, that would be a big help. Pigeons are not normally bread eaters.

It will need a source for warmth so if you have a heating pad, or hot water bottle use that with a towel between the bird and the heat source. make sure it has fresh clean water available. Quiet time is actually a good thing right now. 

Hopefully, someone will be along soon to help you out.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

almondman said:


> Someone will be along soon to help you. Would you mind posting your location in Australia so that we can try to find you some help close by? This does not need to be your home address, but your city or state would be helpful. Thank you!


Sorry, I missed your location in your first post.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi Dave, thanks so much for your prompt reply. Have placed rice in a sock and heated it up, wrapping it in a tea towel also and I have placed that near the little one. Hopefully he will migrate that way when he feels the warmnth emanating off of it.

My housemate has said that he has a hot water bottle so I will place that by the side of the box, perhaps on the outside as insulation. I will go looking for bird seed when I leave. and ensure that he has clean, fresh water available throughout the day.

Just to clarify, my location is Parramatta, New South Wales, Australia. I live quite centrally and close to the large Westfield Shopping Centre. 

Anyone to help would be great. Would you like me to PM you my private mobile number in case that person wants to get in direct contact with me throughout the day? I'm not sure how it works on this thing so if you PM me first I can just hit 'reply' with my details.

Thanks again, I've got a lot of faith in this little pigeon!

Michelle.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi again, have just noticed the pigeon from behind. It looks like it has many feathers missing, and there is a pinky red bulb shape protruding from underneath the feathers. I don't know what this is.

The pigeon is becoming increasingly more lethargic. I am very worried at this stage. I have left fresh water and two sources of heat in the box. For now, I think that this is all that I can do.

If there is any help available, I think the little one needs someone with a bit more experience to help him, or at least have a look at him and show me what to do.

Michelle.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this bird.

Please follow the advice on this thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html

If his wings seem to be in the right place, then the wings are probably fine. If he doesn't have the strength to fly then he may just be weak due to hunger, illness or both.

I'm glad to hear he is eating. you can also give him frozen peas (thawed and drained) for now, or a wild bird mix or a pigeon seed.

Can you post a good close up picture of the lesion (red thing) under the feathers?

Others will be along with more to add.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

*Pigeon's back*

This a photo that I have just taken of it's back.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Michelle,

Thank you for your kindness and caring.

It would be great if you can take the youngster to the woman that you mention who rehabs birds, to check for injuries and to splint his wing in place if it is indeed broken. If a broken wing is not properly aligned and fixed in place, it may heal incorrectly, and the bird will not be releasable. 

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but he might have been attacked and might need antibiotics. Unlike mammals, the feathers on pigeons make it hard to tell if there is an injury and how deep it goes, even when you dig around. Yesterday for example, I brought a pigeon to a very experienced pigeon rehabber and it took her a long time and a lot of plucking of feathers to find a one inch gash (which required stiches) on the neck of the pigeon which I suspected had been attacked. He had no bleeding and not even a feather missing there. The only reason I knew he had been attacked was because he had a few feathers out of place on his wing - exactly like your pigeon. When the down feathers (the soft small feathers) are up on the surface, it can be a sign of a predator attack, and if a pigeon has been injured in the attack it will not make it unless antibiotics are given within a day or two. 

You can line his box with newspaper, and considering it's probably a small box, can change it twice a day. I prefer using white paper towels - they are softer and let you keep track of the color of the poop - a useful tool. As almondman suggests you can give him seed, as bread is simply not nutritious enough for them. When you keep his box in his wardrobe, make sure he gets light during the day, or he won't be eating, as pigeons are inactive in the dark. 

As for his flying ability, I think you'll know with time. Once he's feeling better, he will start to fly if he is able to. For now it's important to find out if the wing is broken or just injured, and if you can not find anyone who can do this, a vet trip will be well worth it.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Didn't see the last picture till now. What antibiotics do you have on hand - do you by any chance have Augmentin, Cipro, Amoxicillin?


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I have only Cephalexin Capsules BC on hand (each capsule contains cephalexin monohydrate equivalent to 500 mg cephalexin).

I have bought some Betadine Antibacterial ointment but have been advised by the vet over the phone that it may burn a lesion or wound so I am reluctant to use it. I also have Hydrozole Anti-Fungal Cream on hand but I do not know how useful that will be. I could not find wild bird seed but have bought canary/budgie seeds which say that they are packed with nutrients. I am going to keep him near me in the warmth of the sun whilst I do some work from home. That way I can keep an eye on him and ensure that he is eating regularly.

I couldn't go to Uni today as I am too worried about this pigeon's welfare. Unfortunately, the 'pigeon rehabilitator' that my friend recommended to me was no help at all when I phoned, and really wasn't interested. 

I have been crying all morning because I don't know who to turn to, and can't bear to think that the pigeon is suffering. I have been on the phone to the vet and they have said that the consultation fees and treatment fees for bringing him in as a 'pet' are usually very steep, and I barely have enough money to get by myself as I am a full-time University student and a part-time worker, and all of my money goes to pay for my studies, rent, groceries, petrol etc. 

Otherwise they have advised me that if I bring him in as a 'wild bird', the vet can palpate (feel) his wing for any breaks, and have a look at his wounds. If the vet does not think that he has much chance of surviving, or is not prepared to cover the costs of treatment and rehabilitation, that they will immediately euthanase him. In this instance, I cannot take him back as he is a 'wild bird' and they have a duty of care to keep him for euthanasion. 

So I'm really torn. I'm not a vet and I don't know how to adequately care for this little bird. I am scared that if I touch him I will hurt him more but I don't want to just leave him in the dark to suffer and get even worse. But it would break my heart to just hand him over to a vet that doesn't seem to care and would rather euthanase him than spend time treating him. But then again on the same note, a vet is looking at the bird's best interest and if the bird simply cannot be rehabilitated then it can never be let back into the wild. I live in a high rise apartment that doesn't allow pets (I'm not even supposed to have him here now), so I cannot take him, and I don't know anyone who can.

If there is anyone in my area (Parramatta, NSW, Sydney, Australia) who can help me, I would appreciate that. I think that I may have to take him to the vets this afternoon but my heart is feeling so wrong about it.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Those are some close up pictures of his back, in more light. I think it's safe to say that he's definitely been attacked, and some guys yesterday said that they saw him get attacked by a magpie.

He's chowing down on the birdseed ferociously - can't stop eating it. He seems alert again but as you can see from the pictures, the feathers on his back are gone and it looks very pink, scaly and mangled. 

I haven't really seen him walk and his wings are staying firmly by his side, he isn't trying to move them at all.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Great - you have something. The Cephalexin is not ideal, but will have to do.

Here are dosage directions by our member Jaye, directly copied from another thread: 
Dilute one pill in 10ml or water, then you end up with a 50mg/ml suspension.
So then give about .2ml or .2cc (same thing) twice a day, 8 hours minimum apart.

To make the suspension, you can also use maple syrup or honey instead of water.
And here is how to give it to him: You'll need a 1ml plastic syringe without the needle. Wrap the pigeon in a t-shirt or towel so that only his head and neck are sticking out. His legs should be stretched backwards towards the tail to prevent him from getting a grip and wiggling out of the towel. Once wrapped, place him on your lap (so that both your hands are free) with his beak facing forward and to the right. Hold open his beak with your left hand, coming in behind his head (provided you are right handed), at the same time stretching his neck straight up so that everything is in a straight line, no S curves in the neck. When you look into his throat you will see a little whole that closes and opens as he breathes - this is the opening of the trachea and if liquid goes down that hole - the pigeon will aspirate. So you must bypass this and go further back. With your right hand, very gently plunge the syringe down his throat at the very back past the trachea on his right side. You should feel no resistance with the syringe going down. If you do, don't force it - try again. I get it down to where about half the syringe is down his throat, before I release the medication. Don't pull it out before you have fully released the med. I also lightly grease the outside of the syringe with a bit of coconut or olive oil, to get it to go down easier. 

It's great that he's eating. When he's in his box, make sure he knows where his water dish is by dipping his beak into it, without submerging the nostrils.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I don't think that I can do that - I am very squeamish. His wing is definitely broken. I think that I will have to take him to the vets. I can't look after him for more than two weeks and I don't want him to suffer.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It looks to me like the pigeon has feathers growing back in and so the injury may be old.
Just looking at the pictures, the wings seem to be in a normal position and often, if just given rest, the bird will on it's own.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

My partner and I have agreed to pay the avian veterinary consultation fee of $120. The vet will see what he can do - if it is treatable then my partner and I will pay for antibiotics and a wing splint, and home it with us until it has recovered. If the vet says that the damage is irreparable, then we will have to pay for the euthanasia also. Otherwise it doesn't have a chance as it will be euthanized straight away. At least this way there is a possibility of it getting better and being able to be released. It is a non-native Australian bird and therefore apparently has no right to life. I am so appalled that this country does not have any rehoming/rehabilitation centres for common wood pigeons, or any non-native bird for that matter. I like this little guy a lot and am prepared to take the risk. It's only money, after all.

I'll let you all know how it goes. Wish us luck and pray for the little one.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I've PMd your phone number to one of our members in Australia - hopefully she'll be able to advise you on available resources so that he can be helped without the possibility of euthanizing. He has a perfectly good chance of full recovery and his case is one where euthanizing is simply not justified in my opinion, but the vet may differ on this.

In the meantime, please start him on the antibiotic. If you don't feel comfortable with administering the medication via syringe than you can soak a pea sized bread ball with it and put it in his beak towards the back of his mouth. Then hold his beak closed for a second and he will swallow. This is very easy to do and there is no way you can aspirate him. Use more than one ball if you need to.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I would really appreciate that! Thank you. Tell her to feel free to call at any time. I feel bad opening his mouth. How do I do that? Won't he just eat the bread balls anyway if I dip them into the antibiotic and put them on a tray for him? 

I think I need help figuring out how to bandage his wing. He falls over to one side quite often (the left side - the side I suspected to be broken). He also leans his head down and his tail up in the air as if he is going to take flight, but then never does. 

I don't want to have to take him to the vet if I don't have to, especially if there is a high chance that he will be euthanized, but I cannot bear that he will suffer.

So splinting the wing and getting the antibiotic measurements right, and also giving him water because he doesn't seem to be drinking - are my main concerns right now.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I have diluted 250 mg of cephalexin monohydrate in a little bit of water and dipped about 5 small bread balls into this mixture. Bobbie (yes I have named it - a unisex name) happily ate them up. I will do this two to three times a day. 

Bobbie is quite frightened but I took him out and inspected him properly. What a gentle little creature he is. He walked around the living room - not properly. Couldn't fly and kept falling over to one side but could move quite quickly. Went under the couch at one point but I coaxed him out with seeds. 

His back is pink and scaly, but there are no open wounds or cuts. The pinkness is dry and scaly and looks like the feathers have just been taken away through a previous attack. His tail feathers are still in tact. His wing is most probably fractured but doesn't look out of place. Just to be sure I am going to research how to properly splint it up but any help here would be great. I am not sure whether to do one wing or both as I think that it will be good to keep them both still in order for them to heal. I don't want them to heal wrong as then he'll never be able to fly again and all of my hard work will be in vain! Is this okay to do? Or should I just bandage one wing?

Next thing for me to do is dip his beak in water to urge him to drink (I think I will mix a small amount of Gatorade powder) in there also to hydrate him faster and keep him on the antibiotics. How long should I keep him on the antibiotics for? And also, am I giving him the right amount? The white powder was in capsule form so I split apart the capsule and poured the powder into a small amount of water and stirred it around before dipping the bread balls in. I poured around 250 mg of it in the water, but obviously not all of the antibiotic-infused water was used when I dipped the bread in, so will he need more?

I have 7 antibiotic capsules left, and there are 500 mg to each capsule. 

On his back around the pink scaly parts, there were little clear bugs. I know that he's feral so of course he will have parasites, but I'm itchy now too! Any tips on how to rid him of the little buggers? And also myself? 

I can make arrangements for him to be adequately cared for whilst my partner and I are away - I have made some phone calls today. Hopefully my cousin can come and stay and as instead of paying bills, she can feed him and clean his box. This evening I think that my partner and I will invest in a cage for him, as it will be cleaner. Can I keep him on the balcony whilst he is healing in the cage? And what cage do you recommend?

Sorry for so many questions! I am going to postpone the vet visit for the next few days. If I see more improvements, I will cancel it altogether, and keep little Bobby with me until he is better. But I need to feel confident in what I am doing as I am definitely NOT a vet and therefore it is crucial that I am more knowledgable. I don't want to make him worse.
I have faith that he will get better and that I can let him back into the wild. 

Just as a query - how old can common wood pigeon's live to? I assume Bobby is already an adult. I bought Betadine to keep him clean but the vet nurse said that this wasn't a good idea. Instead I may just wash him all over with a warm wet towel. 

I think I'm going to pop to the pet store later and see what I can get. Any recommendations on what to get him for the long term? I have been feeling down today about the whole situation but I so badly don't want him euthanized. I'm going to at least give it my best shot.

Michelle.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I could be wrong, but he doesn't look like a wood pigeon to me.
Actually, I think he is a she.
From your pictures, it looks to me like the wings are in normal position. If the wing isn't hanging low, I would leave it be. Splinting a wing takes experience and often even when a vet tapes the wing, the wing atrophies leaving the bird flightless. So to reiterate, if the wing isn't hanging low, so the bird trips on it, leave the wing alone and keep the pigeon confined.
If it does seem necessary to tape a wing, it should only be the injured wing. The pigeon will need the other for balance.
Rather that putting Gator Aid in the water, a scant pinch each of salt and sugar will do. Gator Aid has too much sugar which isn't good for birds.
To make the pigeon feel more content, you can add a mirror so she can see herself. I use the kind that one can find in the hair care products. Just prop it so she doesn't knock it over and have it fall on her.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

You guys are amazing. It's so nice to know that there are compassionate people out there who dedicate their time to giving advice on how to help injured birds. 

If the wing doesn't set properly, I will have to find her a permanent home, but at least she'll be healthy.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Mich,

I just tried to call you; I'm in brisbane.

I care for sick feral pigeons up here, partly because I work at home so I can, and also noone else will help, like you've discovered. 

My thoughts were same as some of the others- that this is probably a normal elbow break, which will heal up on its own. Its the most common type of wing break in wild birds and plenty of them recover- the wing will droop a bit, but it will fly again, and it can go on to live a nice long life.

Pigeons are amazingly hardy. Obviously its better to get them seen by a Vet when they are wounded, but they can recover from the most impossible looking wounds without that. I had one with its chest ripped open by a hawk, and its crop torn open- you could see seed inside the chest cavity. When it walked, the seed and water would spill out. I thought it would die for sure, but I took it in. Within two weeks it healed up on its own, and I see this pigeon every day now (its very tame since I looked after it). You would never know it has such a serious wound.

So please give him a chance


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Great that he took the bread balls himself. It's important that antibiotics be given in exact amounts and at specific intervals. Dosing lower will do no good and only harm, so please get a 1ml syringe so that you can measure with it and follow the exact dosing instructions. I'd give for 10 days.

He has mites, so you can pick up from the pet store a mite spray for birds and treat him everywhere (esp. under the wings) but not on or around his head, and make sure he doesn't breathe in any of it.

I have a guinea pig/ rabbit cage as my hospital cage. Most bird cages tend to be needlessly high but not wide enough for pigeons. You want to get a cage that will allow him to at least stretch his wings.

That's wonderful that you have made arrangement for his care in your absence. Even if he does end up as unreleasable, pigeons adapt readily to indoor life and make wonderful pets too. Keep up the good work - you're doing great.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks so much Bella for jumping in. Michelle, you're in good hands now.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi guys,

Bobbie is eating loads and now drinking as well, which is great. Her droppings are thick, which I have been informed is a good thing.

I have changed her box, re-heated her heating pads, given her her first dose of antibiotics and fed and watered her. She has been put back into my wardrobe for some down-time and rest.

She tends to nose-dive a lot. And by that I mean that she falls on her face when she tries to move. Her balance isn't very good. I'm hoping that this is a simple wing or foot problem that will heal with rest and antibiotics, but we'll see over the next few days. What are the chances that it could be something else?

Great news is that I was just chatting to my partner and he went from saying "No! We are not keeping it as a pet" to "Could we?" so it's awesome to know that even if the poor thing can't fly again, she'll have a home. 

I think things like this happen for a reason, and maybe Bobbie fell into my path so that I could keep her. 

I do live quite far up in an apartment building - and I wouldn't want her to get bored here. Today I am going shopping for a wide cage, a mirror to pop inside, some split peas to add to her diet, and a bird bowl. 

I'm hoping that she'll be looking much better in 2.5 weeks before I go away so that I don't fret all holidays! Perhaps then she'll be a little bit more domesticated and not so scared when I go near her. My housemate has a son who is very sweet and gentle but will want to play with her and feed her. Is this okay? Do pigeon's enjoy human company and being stroked/hand-fed/touched etc?

So today she has had perhaps 300mg of antibiotics diluted in water. Should I be giving her the antibiotics just once a day or more? This is obviously very important that I get it right. I am too scared to force a syringe down her throat but she gulps the antibiotic-soaked bread down so I will stick with that for now.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

And thanks for everything guys! Bella, thank you for ringing me when I was in such dire need of reassurance.

Michelle.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Michelle that amount of antibiotics is *way too high*.

She should be getting between 25-50 mg a day. I'm thinking she's lite so 25mg per day would be more like the correct dose. That 25mg should be divided in half so she would get about 12mg in the morning and 12mg in the evening.
She may feel poorly after such a high dose and she could have loose poop. She may not feel like eating.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Oh okay! It was a rough estimate. I've been pouring the entire 500mg into a small amount of water, maybe 5 tablespoons worth, and just dipping the bread into it. About 10-12 pieces of bread altogether, pieces smaller than a pea.


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## DeeDee's Mom (Dec 17, 2011)

If your housemate's son is gentle and patient, he can probably do quite a bit toward domesticating Bobby and getting her (?) used to being around people in general. Just so long as he doesn't force the bird into anything and moves slowly and is gentle, Bobby should soon learn to trust him. Pigeons and doves can learn to trust and love humans and really love being around them.

Our dove, DeeDee, would rather be around us than anything else, and if he had his way, he'd be out of his cage and around us 24/7. I'm glad you are planning on keeping Bobby.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I may have exaggerated the amount of actual antibiotic that Bobbie has actually consumed.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

As a general rule of thumb, how many pieces of bread dipped in the diluted 500mg of cephalexin should Bobbie be having? And how many times a day?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well that's quite an exaggeration then. I can't figure it out by the number of pieces dipped in bread. You need to draw up the correct amount, in a syringe, soak the bread with that and feed her the pieces. Did you make the suspension?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tell me how you have diluted it and I'll help you with a dose.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I have never owned a bird before, nor rescued a wild bird, and do not own a syringe, I don't know what 'suspension' means and I don't know how to do it.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Well spotted Charis!

Yeah Mich,

If she got the full 300mg that is a human dose. Don't give any more. 

Jayes Instructions earlier in the thread were:

Dilute one pill in 10ml water, then you end up with a 50mg/ml suspension.
So then give about .2ml or .2cc (same thing) twice a day, 8 hours minimum apart.

I take that to read : 20mg per 200gram bird per day. Your bird is probably closer to 300 grams, being in cold climate, so 30 grams per day would be the correct dose.

So if you gave 300mg, the overdose is approximately 10 X the daily recommended amount, based on body weight of 300grams. 

That's a big overdose, but the pigeon will probably survive it if you stop giving it. It could explain why it was wobbly when we spoke on the phone. Sometimes vets give birds one big overdose of antibiotic, just once, instead of dividing it up over ten days, but mostly , say, during surgical procedures...so don't worry too much, just stop the med. It might not feel like eating much today, and it may vomit too.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I have just re-read that and realised that it came across as rude. That wasn't my intention - I genuinely am unsure.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Mich, 

Do you have any eye droppers? An eye dropper will hold 1 ml of liquid, so we could work with that if you have one.


If not, you can go to a chemist and ask for childrens liquid panadol, the one that comes with an eye droper (or another product that comes with a syringe, like Nilstat).

That's how I got my first syringe.

You can use the syringe to measure out the medicine correctly, and then put the correct amount on bread balls.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

So the antibiotic was in capsule form. Within the capsule there was *********** - the antibiotic. In approximately 40ml of tap water I poured the 500mg of cephalexin and stirred it around. I dipped approximately 12 pieces of rolled up bread (each slightly smaller than a green pea) into the mixture and then placed it onto a little tray for Bobbie to eat.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Thanks - I will find a syringe so that I can measure her medication for future. I am unsure of how to adequately measure it.

I feel like such an ignoramus asking all of these questions but if I get it wrong (like with the antibiotics) I could kill her.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

My partner is a lot better at Maths than I am. I'll get him to have a look at this when he gets back. I won't give Bobbie any more antibiotics today but I will try and give her some food later.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

pleaseletmesignup20 said:


> So the antibiotic was in capsule form. Within the capsule there was *********** - the antibiotic.


That sounds ok Michelle, its probably nowhere near an overdose then.

Powder is bit easier to work with. One way to prepare the medicine is to pour the powder from one capsule, slowly, onto a clean flat surface. Then you use your bank card/credit card, to divide the powder into 10 equal sections. First, cut it into two equal sections. Then cut each section into five. Like you're a cocaine dealer lol.

Does sound like something you can do? You would then roughly give 1/2 of each section to the pigeon per day. You'd only need a couple of drops of water to mix with the powder, then put that on a breadball or two. Make sure it gets all of it.

So- divide the powder into ten sections.

Give 1/2 of one section per day by adding a couple of drops of water, and soaking that up into a bread ball (or two)

Give the bread ball.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you Bella for helping with the dosing. I'm off to bed.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> Thank you Bella for helping with the dosing. I'm off to bed.


No, thank you Charis- you're a champion


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Now that I understand! (Not that I'm a crack dealer haha) But the Maths always gets me. I will make sure that I do that. I think its because I read "a whole pill" in Jayes instructions. From now on, Bobbie will be getting half of one small line of medical coke per day. Appreciate your help 

Oh dear, I've just spilt bird seed all over the carpet...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Giggle, What will they say in Church when you tell them you helped a souless animal and you did it using your crack hor skills? Lol.

I found understanding dosages hard at first too, but it gets easier when you do it all the time (which I hope won't happen with you


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

She is falling onto her face alot, even when she is eating. It is happening more and more. I'm going to keep giving her antibiotics every day for the next three days, and feeding/watering her four times a day. I bought high protein parrot mix today at the petstore, with biscuit and something-else mix (forgot what the second ingredient was) but you sprinkle it over the food and its high in protein/nutrients.

I was recommended a good vet to call today who have a reputation for rehabilitating birds, but I will ring them and ask what their process is first as I am generally quite distrusting of vets. My experience with them thus far hasn't been good. 

I am going to keep waiting and praying - I am really counting on pigeon's naturally ability to heal.

Will update more tomorrow.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Does it feel like a very skinny pigeon? When you touch its chest, can you feel the keel bone, which runs down the front centre of the chest? If the bird has been starving, that bone will feel sharp and prominent.

The wobbliness is a bit of a worry...starvation can cause it but so can other things. I hope this will resolve itself on its own. If its due to starvation it might need a little bit of time to gain its strength back. It might also need to be wormed (we can give you instructions if needed - do not use just any wormer)

If you take it to a vet, even a good vet that you trust, please never say you plan to release it. Many vets in Australia will destroy any feral bird or animal if they believe its not a pet. There is a law they can use to justify this, but its pretty skewed interpretation of the law in my opinion- its the one that says you can't release feral animals into Australia any more (its meant to mean do import non native animals and release them here, but vets use this to justify killing feral animals that are already here too). So be careful and say you plan to keep it, or rehome it.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> If you take it to a vet, even a good vet that you trust, please never say you plan to release it. Many vets in Australia will destroy any feral bird or animal if they believe its not a pet. There is a law they can use to justify this, but its pretty skewed interpretation of the law in my opinion- its the one that says you can't release feral animals into Australia any more (its meant to mean do import non native animals and release them here, but vets use this to justify killing feral animals that are already here too). So be careful and say you plan to keep it, or rehome it.


Oh wow - that's extremely important information - thanks Bella. I'll be passing this along to every member from Australia in a similar situation.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

She doesn't seem to be getting any better, although she has had her antibiotics. The falling on her face thing is really bugging me, because its making me think that it could be a central nervous thing.

She's eaten a little bit, but she keeps falling onto the plate. The only way that she can eat is to lower her body into the plate in a sleeping pose and just peck that way. To drink, she can't do that otherwise she could drown or drench herself and it's too cold for her to wet. She'll die from pneumonia. I will try and give her a drink now and then reheat all of her bottles, roll some donut tea towels and pop her back away. 

She's eating Small Parrot Seed (with the dried sunflower seeds) as well as an egg and biscuit bird protein mix. I am sprinkling some Trill over the top because she seems to really like that. She won't touch the split peas, perhaps because they are too big.

When I checked on her this morning, she was sitting in her water bowl, in a low down position (I think that is the way she slept as there were loads of poops behind her. She seems to be breathing quickly and I can see her whole body moving up and down as she does.

She just tried to eat but fell face first again. I can't hand-feed her as I don't have a syringe and don't know how. I am so worried. 

There was a little fly type thing that was flying through her feathers when I opened the box - I caught it and killed it. It's not a fly, I don't think, but it looks like one, and it makes a buzzing sound. 

I said that I would wait a few days for the antibiotics to take hold, and I will do that, but if she's not looking any better by Thursday then I fear that she may slowly starve.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Above are pictures of her falling face first which happens a lot - all the time, in fact. It's like she can't support her bodyweight.

The other picture is of her poop.

Where can I get pigeon worming stuff from?

Michelle.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

I just held her body, dipped her head into her water and she drank greedily, which is good. But she just can't stop falling on her face! I leave her alone for a second to try and let her eat on her own and all I hear the rustling of her going face first into the corner of the box.

I will keep holding her body to help her eat and drink for the next couple of days, but obviously I can't do this every single time that she needs to eat over the next couple of weeks, as I won't always be around.


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## DeeDee's Mom (Dec 17, 2011)

Is there any way you can make her a kind of donut-type "nest" of something to keep her more secure while you're feeding her? I don't know that it's NOT some kind of central nervous system thing, but I suppose it's possible she's just weak, or the broken wing is throwing her off-balance. Maybe take a few old socks and roll them up around her or some such? I haven't a clue what the fly-type thing could be. Sounds too big to be a mite.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Mich,

Were you able to feel her keel bone in the front of her chest? It runs down the center, front of the chest. Can you feel it at all? Does there feel like some muscle either side of it, or nothing much there? Is it very sharp?

If you had postal scales around, I would ask you to weigh her (but not many people have those). 

She could definitely be wobbley because of starvation- she may have been unable to fly and get food for a while. Or there is a secondary problem there, that made her vulnerable to attack by predators. Don't give up on her, and remind yourself that you can only do your best for it , with the information & resources available. 

Regarding worming, its very dangerous to worm a bird that is ill. I usually give it two weeks before I worm a very sick bird, to let it build up some weight and recover from its illness a little. We do not need to think about worming right now.

Finally, if you think its not eating enough, there is something easy you can to do to help. You can buy some friskies (dried cat kibble) or some dog food- the refrigerated kind, wrapped up like salami or devon. They have it in the meat section at coles and woollies.
I sometimes use the one called `all natural'.

You can use either. If you use cat kibble, soak it for a few hours in water until its soft and fully rehydrated, and give small pieces. Give ten pieces or more once in the morning, and once at night. Keep seed and water available for it.

If you get the dog sausage food, which is a better type of food for a pigeon, then cut a small slice into little pieces, the size of corn. Feed ten or more pieces, once in the morning, once at night.

Charis also often suggests to people to hand feed frozen corn and frozen peas, about 80 pieces in a sitting.

PS. The fly is called a `pigeon fly'- they are flat and all pigeons get them. They are annoying, more than anything else. they can spread disease, but in wild birds you can't really get rid of them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are the pre-written feeding instructions.


You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would definitely feed the defrosted and warmed peas as that is really very easy. But also would remove the water bowl when not around. I would be afraid he would fall into it. And you sure don't need him sitting in it. Maybe a small crock of water maybe 2 to 2 1/2 inches across would be safer.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Maybe a setup something like this would help him.








Some sticky velcro on the base of the bottle will help stop it rolling over when the bird moves.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

An ingenious set up, with awesome instructions. But I still wouldn't leave him unsupervised with a water dish around. If he's drinking when you offer him and you start feeding defrosted peas or soaked kibble, he should stay hydrated.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

At the advice of a girl from the pet store yesterday, I phoned a vet clinic close to me. The girl in the shop said that the vets are reknown for being very kind to birds and have treated and rehabilitated pigeons, magpies and other birds at their own time and expense.

The guy on the phone was very reassuring and said that if I dropped Bobbie off that they would get her checked out by a vet, who would then try to treat her and find her a carer whilst in recovery. He did say that if it was untreatable, they would consider euthanizing but I said for them to call me with every single update. If they do say that, then I will go back and pick Bobbie up and bring her back, saying that she's my pet and that I will care for and home her.

I will wait one more day for her to be on antibiotics and see if there's any noticeable change, if not, then I think having a vet look at her will be the best option. Especially if the vet can treat her and send her to a proper aviary as living in my apartment will not be an ideal life for her - but it will be better than getting put down or mauled by a cat. I will STRESS the importance of myself and my partner being able to look after her and give her a loving home.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

nycpigeonlady said:


> An ingenious set up, with awesome instructions. But I still wouldn't leave him unsupervised with a water dish around. If he's drinking when you offer him and you start feeding defrosted peas or soaked kibble, he should stay hydrated.


I appreciate your concern with the water but the "dish" is only a medical measure, (it can only hold 15-20 ml of water), and is of a small diameter . It is also slightly higher than the bird, so the bird cannot really fall into it unless the bird was fully standing above it & even then because of the size of the measure, and the fact that the whole thing is semi rockable (even with velcro to hold it) If the bird did fall into it, the weight of the bird would cause it to flip over & empty.
The position of the dish is also far enough away that the bird does have to stretch its neck to reach it so its head cannot just fall into it.
The measure doesnt necessarily have to hold water, it can hold seed.

Ive already used this with an injured bird with no problems.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

And in regards to eating, she eats quite well. I now hold her body nice and still with one hand - just gently keep a hand over her back and wings, so that she doesn't fall on her face. I will do this three to four times a day (the same amount of times that I will re-heat her heating pads) and she seems to be quite comfortable with it. I gently stroke her and make soft sounds and she seems to somewhat enjoy it. I dip her beak in the water and she gets the hint and drinks the lot, likewise with the seeds, she'll gulp those down greedily as well. I think she is very hungry so I will need to feed and water her regularly.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

pleaseletmesignup20 said:


> At the advice of a girl from the pet store yesterday, I phoned a vet clinic close to me. The girl in the shop said that the vets are reknown for being very kind to birds and have treated and rehabilitated pigeons


Mich,

Wildlife carers don't look after feral pigeons. They will look after native pigeons (we have many in Australia). So even though the vet may have cared for native birds, such a magpies and native pigeons, its highly unlikely they do this for feral pigeons. 

I've had experiences like this here in Brisbane, where I was totally reassured and told that a vet, and then a carer , would care for three sick feral pigeons I had taken in. I felt great and handed them over. 

When I followed up on what happened, I learned that the vet did hand them over to a wildlife caring group, who specialise in birds. So I rang this group and this is what happened: the pigeons were kept in the back of a Van without food and water for three days- waiting for a volunteer to be available to take them to another vet. Then they were taken to the Vet hospital at Australia Zoo. One had already died after the three days in the back of the van. And the two remaining were killed as soon as they reached Australia zoo. When I asked the vet nurse at Australia zoo about them, she they said that all feral birds and animals are killed by them because they are feral. She said she sometimes keeps the pigeons herself if they are a fancy breed, but all the rest are killed.

That's NOT what the vet and carers told me before I handed over the pigeons tp them. They told me they cared for all living creatures blah blah.

So I was basically lied to and the pigeons suffered a lot before being killed. I had two more experiences just like this one and then I decided to learn how to look after them myself.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

yes, we have heard similar stories here about the treatment of feral pigeons in Australia. If you can find a vet who will treat them, you must keep the bird with you, and bring it back home. You can't leave it with them, or it will most likely be euthanized.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Quazar said:


> I appreciate your concern with the water but the "dish" is only a medical measure, (it can only hold 15-20 ml of water), and is of a small diameter . It is also slightly higher than the bird, so the bird cannot really fall into it unless the bird was fully standing above it & even then because of the size of the measure, and the fact that the whole thing is semi rockable (even with velcro to hold it) If the bird did fall into it, the weight of the bird would cause it to flip over & empty.
> The position of the dish is also far enough away that the bird does have to stretch its neck to reach it so its head cannot just fall into it.
> The measure doesnt necessarily have to hold water, it can hold seed.
> 
> Ive already used this with an injured bird with no problems.


This is even more ingenious than I first thought - you've considered everything. I guess I got confused as to the scale of the cup (though it clearly says it's a tiny medicine cup).


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Just an update, she seems to be doing much better already. No longer falling on her face, as much, more on the side, but rarely, which I think can be attributed to the dodgy wing.

Did apply the lice/mite spray but doesn't seem to have worked very well as there were little bugs crawling on my hands as I held her. Should I just try again?

Did notice that her left foot (the left wing is the wing I think that was hurt) is flat. Her three toes (especially the middle one) lie flat, whereas the feet on the other side have a curve where the sharp toenails dig into the bottom of the box. Will this heal on its own? What is it indicative of?

Otherwise she is a lot perkier and eating hungrily! Not drinking as much as I'd like, but I am unsure of how much pigeon's should be drinking per day, so don't know if its normal. When I dip her beak, she usually does take a drink, but she is more interested in eating, and there are no problems there. She loves to eat and I find that if I scatter the food on the bottom of the box, she likes to pick around for it - I guess it feels natural for her to scavenge!

She is getting used to being fed and stroked, and doesn't seem to mind when my partner and I talk around her. She may even be getting used to our voices. 

Still keeping her in for lots of rest, and keeping her snuggled up against her heating pads. She is kept in the dark box for most of the day, except for when I feed her in the sunlight. 

Could putting a mirror in the box stimulate her a little bit? What are other things that I could do to stimulate her...or is best if she just rests and gets her strength back for now?

Thanks for all your help guys - I hope things keep getting better from here.

Michelle.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Michelle, Thanks heaps for the happy update (I was hoping so much she wasn't left with a vet). Sounds like she might have just been starving, and she's improving with warmth and good food. Its so awesome to hear that she's less wobbley- thats great work on your part Michelle.

They drink around 30ml of water per day, usually twice a day, after a meal. 30ml is around 6 teaspoons full, or a shot glass full of water. 

When they feel better, they also LOVE to bathe. You can use something like a large baking dish/pan with two inches of water in it (sorry, there are probably much better ideas for a bath, but that's all I could think of that you might have already)

They do like mirrors for company, when kept alone (they also like people, and are smart enough to realize you are feeding/caring for her)

Not sure about her foot, do you have a photo? Do you think its impeding her walking?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

That's a wonderful update - you're doing such a great job. It would have been such a shame for this bird to end up euthanized after everything you've done - I'm so glad you didn't leave it with a vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pleaseletmesignup20 said:


> Just an update, she seems to be doing much better already. No longer falling on her face, as much, more on the side, but rarely, which I think can be attributed to the dodgy wing.
> 
> Did apply the lice/mite spray but doesn't seem to have worked very well as there were little bugs crawling on my hands as I held her. Should I just try again?
> 
> ...


............................................................................................................................


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

My partner and I are going to get a cat cage for her to start with - that will allow her to have light during the day, but mean that she can still keep snuggled up without moving too much whilst she is healing. It should also mean that she has lots of fresh air flow.

She's still eating and drinking well, and falling over less and less. This morning I sat with her and stroked her head and the bottom lids of her eyes came up as if she was getting sleepy and enjoying it, which I hope is a good thing. Is it a good thing?

I am feeling pretty itchy though so I will get my partner to help me with the feather lice situation this evening!! Thats a big no no for me. It's probably more the mental associations than anything.

I have attached some photos of her feet. I definitely think that it is impeding her walking abilities. Also attached are some pics of her droppings (which had hardened by the time i photographed them) from both sides. 

The other photo is of her tucked between her heating pads. She is getting lots of rest at the moment. She is kept in the dark when I am not there, but at the moment I don't have anything else that she can sleep in and I've spent my remaining money for the month on her food and lice spray! Until payday next week the cat cage will have to wait.

One of the photos is of my hand next to her food, to give you a rough idea of how much she is eating in each sitting. I am trying to give her this four times a day, and she eats most of it in each sitting. Is it too much?

She has survived for three days in my care now so I am getting more and more hopeful by the day.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Rest of photos.

Michelle.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Mich, Thanks again for such a positive update She looks so comfortable and well cared for- good Job!

Those droppings look especially healthy- no sign of illness whatsoever. They're basically as ideal as they get.

Not sure what you mean about her feet- the pictures make her feet look normal- they can do well with quite savage foot injuries (missing feet, toes etc) so I wouldn't worry about a slight wierdness in form. 

This is probably the best part of her life she's ever experienced- regular food and clean water, warmth, safety. It would mean so much to her after a traumatic injury where she may not have been able to fly or find much food. Its so great you've given her second chance at life


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Those poops look good! I can't really tell what's going on with the foot from the photos. 

I'd let her have seed freely available to eat as much as she wants - she definitely needs the nutrition and she's an adult and can regulate her intake, (unlike some overly enthusiastic youngsters when they first learn to eat). But she'll need to be kept in a box with light, otherwise she won't do much of anything. She should have light all through the daylight hours. You can use artificial light to direct some into the box, until you get the cage. I've used a very weak spotlight type light bulb for a cage that was in my bedroom. The pigeon would always wait for me to turn her light on at 6 am and would immediately start to eat, otherwise she would have had to wait for several more hours for me to get up and draw the curtains.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hi guys,

Came back today from Uni to give her another feed before I went out again and she was falling around a bit so I have popped her out in the sunlight and I'm watching her.

Although she seems better, a couple of things are worrying me. She goes a bit mental sometimes and extends her wings. A few minutes ago she pulled her head back and looked at me from the side. It was a pretty unnatural angle. As she does this, her right eye closes but the other one is looking at me. Could it be possible that she has PMV? What is the best cure for this?

Also, she swallows a lot - all the time actually. Could this be canker? How do I check and will Cephalexin do the trick to get rid of it? Or will she need something else? Where can I get any other antibiotic? Please bear in mind that if I take her to the vet they will probably just put her down and I cannot afford to pay the consult fees if I take her as my pet. 

An urgent response is required, thank you. I'm worried.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

http://www.vitakingproducts.com/canker.htm

Came across this website - dimetrizadol (emtryl tablets) and Flagyl etc. Are these any good? I will have to pay for them on my credit card but will they take ages to get to me?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she is like stretching her neck and trying to swallow, then that can be a sign of canker. Open her beak and look way down her throat with a flashlight. Does she have any yellowish patches down there? That would be canker, although it doesn't always show. The med you have won't take care of it, if indeed she did have canker. Metronidazole, which you can often get in a tropical fish store, often sold as Fish Zole is what you would want, although you would have to be sure that Metronidazole was the only drug in it. You don't know that she does have it, but easily could have, as stress can bring on an outbreak of canker. She really needs to not be left in the dark. She won't eat or anything while being kept like that. If you have a plastic clothes basket that you could put over the box, upside down to cover the box, even that would work. Or screening, or anything that would let light in. Even cutting a large window on the side of the box, and tape plastic wrap over it like a window. There are lots of ways to accomplish this. I'll bet you can come up with something. Maybe find a dove mix for her?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pleaseletmesignup20 said:


> http://www.vitakingproducts.com/canker.htm
> 
> Came across this website - dimetrizadol (emtryl tablets) and Flagyl etc. Are these any good? I will have to pay for them on my credit card but will they take ages to get to me?


We must have been posting at the same time. 
Flagyl is Metronidazole. Don't know how long it will take to get there.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Apparently I can't buy them from any pet store in Australia. I need to buy them from a vet.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Yep vets are saying that she would need to be brought in and have the consult fee paid before they will prescribe antiobiotics. I can't afford that AND antibiotics - I'm already eating 2 minute noodles every day this week because of all the stuff I've bought for her already. I can barely make my rent and Uni fees. If I don't bring her in as a pet then she will be put down.

Damn it! Any good Australian websites that I can buy it online from with quick delivery? Why are all 'animal-lovers' (vet people) so unhelpful and uncaring!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Michelle,

I don't think there are any reports of PMV in the sydney feral flocks right now. So its unlikely to be a concern for you.

Its not a bad idea to treat for canker if you have the meds on hand, but so far this pigeon isn't showing the signs such as wet droppings. Another symptom of canker is yellow growths in the throat, usually the back. If you can work up the courage, its not a bad idea to have a good look in the throat for anything that looks like a white or yellow growth there (yeast or canker). If you can get your partner to stand behind you witha torch, it will be much easier. Gently tilt the head back, and raise the upper beak. Use your thumb and forefinger near the base of the beak to keep it open. 

It takes 1-2 weeks to import medicine from the USA . I use a store called Jedd's to import metronidazole:

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-523/MEDITRICH-100-tablets-(Medpet)/Detail.bok

For now just make sure he's getting enough water, food & sunlight.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Is it possible to pay more to speed up delivery?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

You can ask them via email...

Can you see anything in its throat?


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Hopefully she gets better by Friday. I've made an appointment with an avian vet on Friday (2 days) to see what they can do, who can provide proper antibiotics and do any bandage work. Will keep everyone posted over the next couple of days.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

She wouldn't keep still for long enough for me to look down her throat. I didn't smell anything and I couldn't see anything when she did move. Looked very pink. Bloody bird is costing me a fortune! But I love her


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

She hasn't eaten much this evening, nor drunk. She keeps trying to walk about and flap her wings, but her head and body is tremoring. Also, I didn't notice any fresh poos and it has been a good few hours since I was with her last.

I've stopped sitting with her for the evening, popped her next to her warm pads and put her away for the night. The vet on the phone earlier said that there was no outbreak of PMV in Sydney so he didn't think that that was the problem. There was a small outbreak in Melbourne, but not in Sydney.

I will check on her in the morning - give her her antibiotics and try and get her to eat/drink. I have Uni work to do which I have been neglecting over these past couple of days so that will have to be done tomorrow with no pigeon distractions, and then I have plans for the evening, but I will do my utmost to keep her warm and calm and company in between studying tomorrow. 

I am worried and I'm not sure what to do. What's the birds crop? Is that the puffiness under her chest? Should that be empty before I feed her again? Her keel bone is very defined and sticks out a lot. Her eyelids close a lot, as if she is trying to sleep but can never quite trust us enough to fall asleep whilst we are around.

Oh well. Wish her luck and good health!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You need to get food into her. Can you feed her frozen peas that have been thawed and warmed under warm running water? Hold her on your lap and against your body. Open her beak and place a pea way to the back of her throat. Then let her close her beak and she will swallow. Do this with about 50 peas a couple of times a day. Then try dipping her beak in a small crock of water and she may drink.

Yes, the birds crop is the small pouch on her chest. It needs to empty before feeding her again.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

THE CROP IS BELOW HER THROAT AND ABOVE THE BONE THAT IS IN THE FRONT CENTER. THAT BONE IS CALLED THE KEEL BONE. WHE THE CROP HAS FOOD IN IT, IT FILLS UP AND FEEL SQUISHY. WHEN EMPTY, IT JUST FEELS FLAT.

I know it must seem awkward and you feel uncertain about popping the peas. If we can do it so can you. Once you get the hang of it, you'll see how ridiculously easy it is.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Michelle,

I know it's very hard doing anything with a bird that will not cooperate and keeps moving. But if you wrap her up in a towel or t-shirt it becomes very easy - you'll have both hands free - one to just hold open her beak and other to pop peas with or hold a flashlight. If you've never handled a bird before it can feel really scary because they seem so fragile and I know you're afraid of somehow damaging her, but trust me - pigeons are tough little buggers and there's no way you can even hurt her by opening her mouth. She's already weak and emaciated and if she doesn't get food into her she'll go down very, very fast. Once you try you'll be surprised how easy it is. Just wrap her body up, the way you were planning on bandaging her, but make sure everything is under the wrap except her neck and head. 

BTW, Flagyl (metronidazole) is a human drug - any chance that you have a friendly, understanding doctor you can trust?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Michelle,

I can hear you panicking a bit, please, please breath! 

As appealing as it is to pass on the responsibility, a vet won't be able to help with the nursing and hand feeding of this pigeon. She probably doesn't need bandages now that the wound is older, and she probably doesn't need any more medicine right now. 

She needs food and water. And it would be great if you could help by giving the bird a basic examination, and report it to us- we need to know how skinny it is (I asked twice already, as its improtant) and also if it has yellow or white growths in its mouth. Without basic information like this, we cannot say if it needs medicine or if it has any illness aside from starvation.

Please take a moment to read back over the advice given to you already regarding hand feeding. Birds have such fast metabolisms, they can't tolerate lack of food & water for long. The little girl doesn't have anyone else but you, and your courage to open up its beak.

PS. I would suggest not giving antibiotics today, while you're learning how to hand feed it. The medicine will put it off its food, and we are not sure it even needs it.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Unfortunately, my little soldier passed away in the night. I'm devastated. I will buy a plant today in rememberance of my pidg. Thanks for all of your help though, everyone. I appreciate it and I know that she had at least some love in her last few days of life. Night night Bobbie bird x


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm really sorry you lost her.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

A friend bought this for me today so that I can always wear it and think of her. 

She said today that in pigeon heaven, all the animals that attacked or hurt them in their lives (mainly cats) have to dress up in stupid outfits and serve them bird seed on a silver platter. It made me laugh.

I miss her. Again, thanks for everything. I am going to keep the seed and lice spray and wormers and buy Flagyl and a feeding syringe etc in case I ever have another bird that I have to look after. I am going to be prepared!


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Necklace..


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear this Michelle. We all have to start out somewhere; hopefully next time you'll feel a bit more confident with things like examining the bird and hand feeding etc, since you've had this experience now. 

Those tremors and falling over were a real problem, its possible that no matter what you did, her problems were too complex for someone new to birds to handle on their own. It just shows what a good person you are, to have given something so scary & new for you, a real go (and to sacrifice dinner for her too)

PS. You mentioned that you got a wormer? What wormer is it, and did you give it to the pigeon?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

So sorry to hear she didn't make it. 

Thank you for trying. 

Regardless of the outcome, each attempt teaches us for next time, and I'm sure there will be a next time because when you've been through this once, you start seeing pigeons who need your help everywhere.

Good luck to you and all the best.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry...thank you for caring.


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## pleaseletmesignup20 (May 27, 2012)

Thanks everyone.

Bella - No, I haven't bought any wormer yet - I meant for next time. I remember you saying that it was better if she got wormed after she was better. I will have some on hand for the next go because I'm sure I will be keeping an eye out now for sick or injured pigeon's to bring home.

I'm still feeling very sad. It's amazing how quickly a connection can be made, and I truly will miss my little pidg.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Mich, Yeah, they really stay with you, don't they, even when they've passed away? Its really hard to have a life in your hands with no experience, but you'll become more experienced. I look forward to the day you get to save a life for the first time- its amazing to see them happy and well again.

PS. Some wormers are dangerous for pigeons so its best to check here before you buy one. In Australia, moxidectin and avitrol tablets are good wormers for pigeons...there are others that are good, but harder to obtain and dose. Do not buy wormout gel.....very toxic for pigeons.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

pleaseletmesignup20 said:


> Necklace..


I like your necklace a lot. That's a beautiful gift.

One of my Indian friends (South -Asian)who believes in lachks ( cicle of reincarnation) said that next level after a bird dies, the spirit reincarnates into human....you never know, one day you may encounter him/her (probably is a new born baby now).


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