# Week old squab with extreme air in crop, help please!



## equusjumper (Oct 27, 2015)

Could use some expert advice please. Two squabs hatched about a week ago, eyes are open. One after a few days was about 3-4 times larger than the other, feathers starting to come in. The other's crop was usually empty or almost empty. Seen this before and knew the big one would take all the feedings and the little guy wouldn't make it so brought him into the house a couple days ago to hand feed. Have done this successfully once before with an even younger one.

Using Kaytee exact and the syringe with balloon method, worked really well for me with the other youngster we raised. This new one took right to the feeding, poor guy was really starving. Crop was never fully deflating between feedings and it appears that he was starting to accumulate air. Last night's last feeding he was hungry but crop still inflated about 50%, with air I think. So after feeding it was pretty big. 

I had hoped it would go down overnight but instead this morning the crop was still about 3/4 as full as after last night's feed, but he's so hungry! I'm confident it's air and at this point I can't get much nutrition into him as there is no room in there! 

The first squab I handraised had this for a couple of days but not as bad. I literally heard him do a big burp a couple of times after feeding and he got relief and after a couple of days the air was no longer a problem. But this current little guy I'm concerned about as I don't think I can feed him enough to keep him alive with this much air in him.

Can anyone give me some suggestions for relieving this air? I don't think he can feel too comfortable with that in there and he's not as active today as yesterday. Thanks.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

You can massage/burp it on an empty crop, be careful as you can push food up into his lungs if not careful. My first thought is get help from your veterinarian. Make sure he is warm also and the next time you feed if you can make sure it is warm and he is not gulping too much air.


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## equusjumper (Oct 27, 2015)

So at next feed I started to gently massage to burp air but turns out the crop this time is very doughy/squishy, feels like thick pudding type of food sitting in there? When you press it dents and remains dented and you can move the contents around. I gave him a feed of Kaytee with a lot more water than usual and a few drops of apple cider vinegar in case of sour crop or crap stasis (read before the ACV helps with this??). 

I'm thinking this might be my fault because I ran out of Kaytee yesterday and gave him 2 feeds of mushed watered down chick starter (non medicated) because he was super hungry and the Kaytee needed to be brought to me from a store several hours away. I'm thinking maybe the chick starter is just sitting in there not digesting? If so, crap! What should I do?


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## The Blue Barred Loft (Oct 1, 2015)

If stuff is stuck in his crop try giving some apple sauce. The apple sauce can clear out the crop, try to do it before he gets sour crop though from the old food sitting in there. Kaytee Exact really is not a recommended feed for baby pigeons though anyways, it is meant for parrots and doesn't have the same nutrients as what a pigeon needs. Pigeons/doves and insectivorous birds such as sparrows and starlings can be raised on it but they will grow up with a vitamin deficiency.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

The apple sauce is a good option. WARM apple sauce, or warm water and apple sauce mix or even just warm water, then gently massage the crop and be sure to not force any liquid or food back up or he will aspirate. Often it is from wrong temperature as in too cold formula or too cold bird. They are slow to digest then it will sour. Also an infection in the gut can back up into the crop causing sour crop. I have seen this in budgies. If you have any human digestive enzyme, u can put some of that in the warm water or even some acv in the warm water and do the same. Only a few drops of the vinegar. When this happens, I would also give them antibiotic. Good luck.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The warmed applesauce, with a bit of water added should help, then a gentle crop massage, but be careful with that. Then you could put him back in with his parents if they will take him back. Watch to be sure that all is well. If you want them to feed him more, then simply remove the bigger one till they feed him, then you can put the other one back. If you need to hand feed, do so then return him to his parents. He is much better off staying in the family unit than being separated.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

equusjumper said:


> So at next feed I started to gently massage to burp air but turns out the crop this time is very doughy/squishy, feels like thick pudding type of food sitting in there? When you press it dents and remains dented and you can move the contents around. I gave him a feed of Kaytee with a lot more water than usual and a few drops of apple cider vinegar in case of sour crop or crap stasis (read before the ACV helps with this??).
> 
> I'm thinking this might be my fault because I ran out of Kaytee yesterday and gave him 2 feeds of mushed watered down chick starter (non medicated) because he was super hungry and the Kaytee needed to be brought to me from a store several hours away. I'm thinking maybe the chick starter is just sitting in there not digesting? If so, crap! What should I do?


He could have some sour crop going on, instead of the apple sauce if it is not too late you can use human baby food peas instead , just a small amount and massage. The apple sauce can work too but I like to not use anything with sugar in it if he has sour crop. Sugar feeds yeast that can cause gases in the crop. Also make sure your feeding utensils are super clean after each use. I would get a med to fight the yeast, hopefully his immune system with catch up to keep it in check. Do not feed if crop has food in it.!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Baby applesauce is better as they don't add all that sugar that regular applesauce has, so I should have said baby applesauce. It works better than the baby peas, as it does help to adjust the ph in the birds crop. It helps to get the crop moving. It works.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

If yeast is over grown like in a sour crop. I use human baby food peas and it works. I stay away from sugars even natural ones in apples. Sugar feeds yeast.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The applesauce works to move it through the crop. Have never had a problem with it. A crop not emptying is not always because of yeast. Peas do nothing to alter the ph in the crop, which is also needed. If you haven't tried it, then don't knock it.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> The applesauce works to move it through the crop. Have never had a problem with it. A crop not emptying is not always because of yeast. Peas do nothing to alter the ph in the crop, which is also needed. If you haven't tried it, then don't knock it.


I have used it allot on slow crop otherwise healthy babies. I know it works from experience. I don't use it on sour crop that is gas filled with yeast by product because of the sugar content feeding the yeast and low nutrient value. 

Have not heard back about the this pigeon so really all opinions are blowing in the wind on this thread...lol..


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I'm pretty sure is candida overgrowth. I should stop feeding and give only water with 10% acv using a long tube, that reaches the bottom of the crop. This is an important aspect, as if the tube is short, the water or food will come into mouth, probably because of capillary action effect. For an adult sized pigeon, the tube should be 8-9 inches, most of it entering the body. 

Should be the usual daily amount of water they drink but given in small doses (for an adult size pigeon, 6-7 ml, 3-4 times / day) as if too much water in crop, it can come up in mouth and enter trachea if crop is pushed accidentally. If the blockage is advanced, as may be your case, you may wait for third or fourth administration before see the crop emptying. 

If the crop is filled with water without acv, first extract that water and replace it with water + acv.

After the crop was deblocked, continue to give water + acv for 2-3 days, alternating with the feedings. And if feeding is liquid food (Kaytee), mix it with 10% acv as well and maybe let one day only with water + acv after the deblock.

Candida grows very fast and even with acv, is hard to control if it has managed to built a basis on the crop's bottom. Presently I'm fighting with candida at two recent rescues and I may not go sleep before 4 AM or to sunrise, as I have to check their condition.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> I have used it allot on slow crop otherwise healthy babies. I know it works from experience. I don't use it on sour crop that is gas filled with yeast by product because of the sugar content feeding the yeast and low nutrient value.
> 
> Have not heard back about the this pigeon so really all opinions are blowing in the wind on this thread...lol..


The nutrient value really isn't important. It helps to get the crop moving, and that's what it is used for. You don't need to keep the bird on it. It works pretty quickly. Also, you can use baby applesauce with no added sugar.


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## adammo (Sep 24, 2013)

what breed is the bird?


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

apples have natural sugar already with out adding! regardless, It DOES works! I've said that for heavens sakes! But not good to use with yeast infections, alternative is baby food peas. As said yet again. When rehabbing animals one needs to be open and flexible and not afraid to try ideas from others and improve. But really it only sounds like a yeast infection, but I don't think we will ever know.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS: Don't know why you are so sure it is a yeast infection. You can't possibly know that, as it hasn't been diagnosed, which seems to be pretty important to you before anything is done to try to help the bird. Probably just air from the baby being hand fed. 

Whytpigeon: I have an idea. 
You post your ideas or suggestions, and let others post theirs. You really don't have to spend the rest of the thread explaining why the other persons idea is no good, and why yours is always the right way to go. All you do is take over the thread. You have posted your suggestion, and so have I. Now let's move on.


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