# What do people look for in eye signs?



## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I don't plan on using it i think it is best just to look if the bird is healthy and its performance record. But what do you look for in eye sign?


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Here's a pretty good start. Jack Barkel is one of the world's top eye sign gurus (I guess). There's also a ton of Rob Wooliss' videos on Youtube available here

To answer your question, I have no idea what to look for in a good or bad eye. I know a lot of people believe in eye sign theory but the fact remains that it's totally devoid of any scientific substantiation.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I sort of know what to look for, but I couldn't explain it to you if I tried.
I sort of use my own eye sign...I look at a bird's eyes before I take it home. If it looks good to me then that's a plus for the bird. I have a soft spot for pearl eyes, but any eyes with plenty of 'mountains' look nice to me. It's hard to explain just what looks good to me and what doesn't. When I pick up a bird it's more like instinct as to whether it's a good bird or not. The more you're around other people's birds (especially the winning ones) and the more you see pictures on the web, the more you form your own standard for a bird.

I'm not a big believer in eye sign, since it's obviously NOT the only thing a good bird is made of. A bird with a pretty eye does you no good in a race if it doesn't have the shape, muscle, health, and experience to win or even come home. A bird with pretty eyes also does you no good breeding if it has poor qualities and poor genes to pass down. The people who say they base their loft off of eyes must have good birds to begin with.
I do understand that eyesign is a good thing to have though. If a bird has all the other good qualities of a racer or breeder, then a good eye for it makes it even better. The only science I can see that could be behind it is that a racer does need good eyesight and coordination to do its best. Supposedly, the things you look for in eyesign somehow correlates with it's brain or memory or something like that (I forgot but I read something about eyesign science somewhere once). I personally would save eyesign for the last on your 'to look for' list when picking out breeders or racers.

Well that's my 2 cents on eyesign


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I think it's better if I stay out of this one!   

I would probably start another online feud. I will just say that I think there is a lot of wisdom in roxtar's statement that this theory is *devoid of any scientific substantiation.*

'nough said.

Dan


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

*2 good eyes?*

i tend to stick with the things in a bird that are proven through racing good pigeons and learning from results not "theory".


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Eye sighn goes back many years. Is it right or wrong. Toss the coin. Around the pupil there is another ring. No ring no sighn. Then grades 1 thru 10. Ten being the best. you have green and black thin to wide in circleing the pupil. seratted or smooth. A 5 eye is just thinner then a 10. I think more along the offset of a colored eye. And look for a bladdered eye which is a broken pupli eye. This may be a strong fault. In need of off set. BUT agin You have to understand strain line of the birds. As in the development of different strains EYE sighn can not be measured as well. Then you have to believ in the eye cocept. Heck there is even a few people that can almost tell the sex of a young bird by looking at the shape and size of the egg. Thats a different story. Eye sighn has been debated and used for ever basicly. in the end The race that day tells the truth. Then you have what people call a breeders eye in the birds Does it hold water Your guess is as good as any.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2008)

this is the first thing that always comes to mind when I hear talk of eye sign lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96jFtzVa80A&feature=related


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

this topic has been bought up before and in conclusion. By looking at the eye its impossible to check the performance. I can breed new eye colours and patterns into birds that do not fly well. will you pay top dollar for these birds.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I wont to say something on this, out of 17 sent to a race 5 of them keep coming home and with the 10X loupe the eyes on these birds are differrent.
what I mean by this is you can see this without a loupe. stand next to the 
avairy one day and observe your birds the eyes will stick out at you.
I don't know a thing about eyes but the birds that come home time and time
again have it in the eyes.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lovelace said:


> I wont to say something on this, out of 17 sent to a race 5 of them keep coming home and with the 10X loupe the eyes on these birds are differrent.
> what I mean by this is you can see this without a loupe. stand next to the
> avairy one day and observe your birds the eyes will stick out at you.
> I don't know a thing about eyes but the birds that come home time and time
> again have it in the eyes.


Then my question is, of the 12 that didn't come home.........do you know what their eyes looked like? I honestly couldn't tell you one single thing about the eyes of my birds except that they work.  I personally don't give a hoot one way or the other on what my birds eyes look like as long as they can see and they are clear and bright. We were talking about this at shipping last night. Got a lady that I fly with that has two birds, 2007, and if they didn't have a band on their leg, anyone would swear they are a common feral pigeon. Not many racing birds look like these two, who are nestmates. They flew every single race in young birds last year. They made it home when some of her "good" birds didn't. Their eyes are even that wild red color that ferals have. No eye sign in these birds and that's for sure.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Eye sign is just an other scam to get your money.Birds that win have eyes and that is as it should be. Here in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, a few years ago we had a eye sign expert that raced in the FVC he never done much in the way of winning races and has since move out of the area. He did write a book on the subject and I dare say he makes more money on the book then he does with his pigeons .GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I don't plan on using it i think it is best just to look if the bird is healthy and its performance record. But what do you look for in eye sign?


 I really don't have a clue. Some of my pigeon buddies do talk about it, but then my eyes sort of glaze over..... This subject seems to come up now and again, and somewhere in the archives you can read a whole bunch more posts on the subject. Like one of the posts mentioned, you must first "believe in it"...in other words, you must have "faith".....because although there are sellers of various books and the like, and a number of self proclaimed "experts", there is no way to "prove" anything, one way or the other. 

I think the real allure of this theory, is it provides a pathway for selection. It promises, or at least holds out the promise, of being a type of "marker". By that I mean, it purports to ID the exceptional racer or breeder. I have some of my own pet ideas about "markers", but I'm not about to share them, or sell them in the form of a DVD. (At least not untill I cleaned up on all the One Loft Races, and people refuse to let me enter birds)

If one did discover how to ID those truely exceptional birds by a simple physical trait, it certainly would make a dramatic impact on their future racing career. The problem is you only get one lifetime on this earth in order to learn about pigeons. And if you could somehow spend ten lifetimes on the subject of pigeons, you still would end up knowing just a tiny fraction. So somewhere along the way, you need to specialize, and to make choices as to how much time you want to invest in studying particular areas. I made the choice that this eye sign stuff, was a dead end. Perhaps you will invest a few hours and come to the same conclusion, or perhaps you will invest years, or even a lifetime following this path....time will tell.  

One thing for sure, the commercial pigeon merchant and auction houses, like to point out a pretty set of eyes, and will have a picture of their pigeon's eyeball on those full color magazine ads and web sites.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

is there eyesign in race horses?no is there eyesign in greyhounds? no
is there eyesign in great **** dogs or other trials dogs?no
is there even a word in the dutch or belgian language for eyesign? no

there may be something to it,there probably isnt,but why worry about something like that when there are a hundred other things about pigeons when it comes to bodies,wings,etc that are very important for a newer flyer to learn.i have never understood this in 30 years,and wont in another 30. 

by the way,i never could see any one thing the same in my great pigeons i had other than they all had 2 eyes.


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