# Foundation Bird?



## Flying LV (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm looking to see what different opinions are on this issue and reasons why. 

Which is better to have, a foundation hen or a cock?

Thanks Eric


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

There are people on this website a lot more qualified to answer this question than me. I'm sure they'll chime in with their opinions. I have little experience breeding pigeons. Most of my experience has been with breeding English show budgerigars. I would think an inbred cock or hen from a winning family is what you're looking for. This cock or hen should be prepotent, i.e.,he should be capable of reproducing himself or be capable of passing along his winning genes to his offspring. Being inbred will increase the possibility of doing this. Breeding him/her back to a bird from the same family of birds will further increase your possibility of producing a winner.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the opinions of those who have produced families of winning birds. I'm sure I'll learn something along with you.


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

I myself am also a newbie.....

Here is what I read in a SHOW PIGEON site...

As far as foundation goes... if you are wanting to produce certain colors go with a good destinguished (SOLID- meaning dilute coloration or certain pattern, depending on what you are wanting) cock... the reason for this is .... what ever you take him to he will produce same quality as far as coloration as well as built.

Now in my opinion (once again taking the words of more experianced flyers) I would find what is winning in your area and get a solid male as your foundation cock.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

HEN always......Much harder to breed super hens....A super hen will always COST more then a super cock...You see many super cocks for sale....But hardly a super hen comes up at auction.....Alamo


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Foundation Hen also.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I would take the hen every time. There are many fewer proven hens. and so they are more scarce and guarded by those who have them.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I would say neither one is more importent than the other. You can not have a foundation pair without a cock and a hen. A good foundation hen will do you no good without a good foundation cock.

Many years ago everything was placed on the importents of having those great breeding cocks. The hens were not thought to be as importent. Now with everything going the way of the young bird races, one loft races and big money on the young birds things are changing. The hens seam to mature a little faster and a higher percentage of the great young bird racers being hens, the hens have taken a little more importence in the present racing world. 

The truth be told though in order to have a great pair of breeders you must have a good breeding hen and a good breeding cock. If the two birds you breed together do not as they say "click together" you will produce nothing more than average racing pigeons. The trick is finding the right cock and hen and then having the forsight or luck to pair them together.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Also agree in foundation pair neither being more important. If I had to choose only one, I would choose the cock because of the ability to inject the gene pool quicker using bull type breeding methods. Hens are more limited. Personally, I like my hens. When I have a pair that hits, they stay together. I will experiment with their offspring. I am getting to a point where my foundation pairs are aging. So far may strategy is to use pumpers and to keep as many offspring off the pair as possible. I may eventually put them with younger mates. My thoughts are that as they age they may get more stressed spiting them then just leaving them together. I will start fostering eggs as they age to lessen the stress. As long as the babies are healthy they will stay together.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Now as my colony advances, I will replace lost foundation with cocks and hens that have proven great breeders as younger birds. Right now I have a hierarchy of birds ready to step into place. birds 4 and 5 years old that have bred winners. I did loose a key breeding cock and a few hens in the last few years. Right now I would say I have about 10 cocks worthy of foundation status, and about an equal number of hens. I may experiment with some pairings to solidify genetics. The second level of breeders are those birds off the foundation that have top racing results. These are younger and breeding to get to foundation level. If they can duplicate their genetics on the race course they will become foundation quality. 
Don't get to the point where foundation means champion pedigree. Make sure your foundation breeders can bread winners. Paper birds do you no good unless they produce points birds. Paper will not get you winners, just more money if your paper birds can produce winners.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The strenght of the hen,is more important then the cock....SHE lays the eggs...Without her strenght,the cock is worthless......Case in point...."Sure Bet"....Other then the first 4 years,and two different hens,he hasn`t bred much at all....A buddy of mine has "Sure Bet" in his pigeons,and they haven`t done anything for him at all....A GREAT cock is useless,unless you have a hen as good or better then him....When you have a proven breeding pair,that pruduces winners,I will buy the HEN,you can keep the cock....I will put a GOOD cock with that great hen,and have race winners at my loft....Alamo

PS: While visiting a loft in Brooklyn,NY,the owner had a Dark Check "Cock",that I liked...I asked how does the bird race...He said,3 firsts @ 400 miles..And it`s a hen...I said,it looks like a cock...He said."It`s a Hen",she lays eggs....I said,"I will give you $500 for her,without handling the pigeon,and asking what age is she" !!!!...I came back to WVa without the pigeon !!! Alamo


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

How would you classify a hen that produced or produces good race birds or winners when paired with say 3-4 different cocks?Curious.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I heard an expert say first to look for a good hen, pigeon people here always value a hen thats why finding a hen is more difficult than a cock, I also have read the same in different articles


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Josepe.......That`s a GREAT super breeding hen....PERIOD !!! She can make any cock look good in the stock loft......95% of the time,that hen is NOT for sale...Maybe when she is 9/10 years old,the owner will part with her....Alamo


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

An ace cock is a dime a dozen. A golden hen is a one in a million. When you have one, you should keep track of her daughters. When you find a daughter or grand daughter that is her equal or better, you can part with her.


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