# Help!



## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

I've got a feral baby 2 weeks old living in a box around 8 feet off the ground. The strangest thing started happening around 3 days ago. The mom hadn't been around much for a day or so .. and the dad was clearly agitated ..pacing around the roof line and he seemed to be calling out for her. The dad was still feeding the baby and the baby looked to be fine.

I finally saw the mother in the nest with the baby and another pigeon in there with them who was not the dad day before yesterday!!!. I thought it was so odd. The mom was feeding the baby and the other black pigeon was pecking at her back and head. Haven't seen the mom since.

Yesterday I was gone most of the day .. I only saw the dad come once that I know of to feed... but I did see the same black pigeon hanging around the roof.

When I got up just now the baby was on the ground huddled in a corner, sort of wedged between a potted plant and the house. (I've got a dog pen fence around the area...for safety) And in the box ...was that damned black pigeon!! DId he push the baby out of the nest? and take over the box??

Should I put the baby back in the nest???


UPDATE .. the dad just showed up and once again, seemed very agitated. He appeared to be searching the box and then the baby started squeaking on the ground below. The dad looked down and saw him .. but flew off without feeding him.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Wow - that's a tough one... a little out of my league but let me look around and see who's online that may be able to provide better advice. In the meantime I'd suggest putting the youngster back in the box/nest (assuming the black pigeon is no longer there). Hopefully the dad will come back to feed the little guy. You can try dribbling some water from your fingers onto his beek if you think he might be thirsty. I'm assuming he's not drinking on his own yet.

Other than that - hang on & I'll see if I can find someone to give you better guidance.

Thanks for looking out for this little guy


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Dezirrae said:


> Wow - that's a tough one... a little out of my league but let me look around and see who's online that may be able to provide better advice. In the meantime I'd suggest putting the youngster back in the box/nest (assuming the black pigeon is no longer there). Hopefully the dad will come back to feed the little guy. You can try dribbling some water from your fingers onto his beek if you think he might be thirsty. I'm assuming he's not drinking on his own yet.
> 
> Other than that - hang on & I'll see if I can find someone to give you better guidance.
> 
> Thanks for looking out for this little guy



Thank you Dez. The dad has come around twice now. He sat in the nest for a few minutes and then ...He even landed on the ground inside the pen ...but didn't feed the baby. The baby isn't moving around much .. he didn't scatter when put my hand up to him. I'm afraid to put him back because I don't want that black pig pushing him out again ...I'm going to give him some water like you suggested.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I understand how you feel about putting the baby back in the nest. It IS a good sign that the Dad has returned though. I was just reading another thread about a baby piji - I think around the same age as yours. Some of the advice given there may be helpful - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/feeding-times-for-2-week-old-squab-27881.html

Especially putting some seed out by the baby - although the baby won't be able to eat seed just yet, the Dad will probably appreciate & enjoy it and make it easier to find the baby too.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

At two weeks the baby is too young for his parents to recognise him outside the nest, so the options are to take him inside and have someone raise him by hand, or to return him to the nest and hope that the black pigeon will leave him alone.

Cynthia


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Dezirrae said:


> I understand how you feel about putting the baby back in the nest. It IS a good sign that the Dad has returned though. I was just reading another thread about a baby piji - I think around the same age as yours. Some of the advice given there may be helpful - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/feeding-times-for-2-week-old-squab-27881.html
> 
> Especially putting some seed out by the baby - although the baby won't be able to eat seed just yet, the Dad will probably appreciate & enjoy it and make it easier to find the baby too.


Thanks again.. We put some seed and water on the ground in a shady corner by the baby. Off to read the rest of that thread.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Hey, I'm back..............what it sounds like to me is that Mom has taken up with another pigeon. I don't know how often this happens in the wild feral pigeons, but it does occasionally happen in lofts. 
I would be afraid of putting that baby back in the box if the black pigeon is still coming around. 
Hens usually pick the nesting spot. Well, the males PICK it, but if the lady doesn't like it, he has to go find another spot.  It's very possible, and sounds like, Mom has brought another gentleman to her house. Now whether Dad will let him stay or kick his butt, remains to be seen, but you certainly don't want Junior in the midst of any fights that might take place. 
So..............I would try putting the baby somewhere where Dad can find it and see if he will still continue to feed and take care of it. IF the black pigeon goes away, then put the baby back in the box. IF he stays, Dad will most likely leave and the baby will be abandoned in all likely hood. 
This is something that you'll have to keep an eye on and see how it goes. 
Let us know what else takes place. You've got a regular Peyton Place going on there.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi NP.

OK, so if I have it right....there is now NO baby in the nest any longer....the baby has been booted but is safe for the time being on the ground...and the dad is aware of where the baby is, has come down to it.... but has not fed the baby (or at least not that you have observed).

Putting seed near the baby is a thought...since the dad would likely come down to eat the seed and perhaps feed the baby.

If the baby is 2 weeks old, that's good...he/she is becoming robust enough that they can take a bit of jostling or miss a few meals without perishing.

My concerns are:

1) The baby may have been injured in the fall.

When the dad isn't there....go to the baby and pick her up...see if you see any signs of anything broken...a limp wing or leg. Also observe if the baby is clear-eyed and alert, or if she is close-eyed and un-energetic. If she tries to scamper away and tries to evade you, that's a good sign.

If she is very lethargic, though...that's not a good sign.

2) the baby may be OK, but the dad may be giving up on raising, due to the interloper who aggressively has broken their house.

In which case....check the baby's crop (this is below here beak and throat...it's like her stomach which sits in front of her chest/ribs...) If it looks like a little balloon or beanbag...then she is getting fed...you have just not seen it.

But if you see no sign that there is any fleshy, puffy sort of "bag" under her chin/blow her throat...then, indeed, the dad has not been feeding her.

3) The ground is not a good place for the baby, even with the dog fence (good thinkin', though). It may keep a dog out...but it won't keep a cat out, or a mouse or rat, or another bird. So you are gonna have to change that location before nightfall.....or the baby may well be killed by another animal.


1) If visibly injured, or acting very listless/lethargic, sleepy-eyed and unalert...you should bring the baby in ASAP....because it is likely sick or injured.

2) If it is alert and his crop shows some signs of food...then that's great. Then the dad hasn't given up on him/her. Then it's a matter of relocating her new 'digs' to a safer place and letting dad keep on keepin' on (if he is willing to deal with another relocation). But you should still get her off the ground and keep observing.

3) If he seems OK but it's crop is empty....then that is something which isn't all that great. The dad may have given up on him....or maybe he's just not feeling safe enough to feed him. The birdie will need food and hydration...at this age they can last w/o it for about a day or two, tops. You can observe for the rest of the day and see if she gets fed at all....


Regardless of all 3 possibilities, regardless of her condition....the birdie shouldn't stay on the ground into the evening. The chances of something getting her is too great.

So, even if dad is around, bring her in for the night at least. A small box with a towel liner, maybe a heat pad if you have one (on low) or if not, just keep the box in a warm room (sceen or wire mesh as a top). Drop some seed in the box (somethimng smaller than sunflower, such as safflower or budgie/parakeet mix)...at 2 weeks, sometimes they are beginning to peck at solids.

If you see dad in AM, put baby back out there and see if he attends to her or shows interest.

Keep us posted.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thank you so much for your concern. Considering the circumstances I think I would just take the baby and raise it. The first thing I thought of was perhaps the black pigeon is a female and wants the father.

You have already been given good advice. From your description, the baby is way too young to eat on its own so you will have to feed it. If you have a dog or cat that eats dry dog/cat food, soak some of the pellets in hot water, allow to cool, then break off bits to feed the baby. It will not need any water if you do this. The ideal thing to feed a baby pigeon is Exact hand feeding formula which you can purchase at most any pet store. Just follow the directions on the package only make the formula just a bit more watery than they state.

Here are some links that will show you how to feed a baby formula. With the pellets, you simply open the beak and place small pieces towards the back of the throat. 

In this first one, Cynthia is feeding the pigeon seed but you would do the same with pellets. http://youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

In this one, Cynthia is feeding the baby Exact by the "balloon" method.
http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

This is the Kaytee site which has some good information. I think they mostly show parrots but the same instructions would apply to baby pigeons. 
http://kaytee.com/companion_animals/birds/hand_feeding/

Again, thank you so much. 

One last thing - a member suggested putting the baby out during the day to let the dad feed it. This is a good suggestion but you need to make sure you watch in case a cat or other predator tries to hurt the baby, or, if the dad is not feeding it.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

First .. thank you all so much for taking the time to help me out.

I just got back from being out for a bit ... my husband kept an eye on things ... The dad has been hanging VERY close and did come down to eat the seed we put out. I just checked the baby and his crop looks good and full .. and my husband said he was moving around well when his dad was down there. He doesn't appear to be hurt but he wasn't exactly happy about my trying to pick him up ..I thought it was good that he backed away from my hands.

I know the ground seems dangerous but truth is .. this will be our 3rd feral brood in what we refer to as the "gated community"  and we haven't had any trouble with intruders. There are several potted plants to hide out behind in that corner. 

Uno, our first baby was on the ground after jumping out of the flower pot when he was about 3 weeks old. The dad seemed really comfortable feeding him down there and taking him out the opening for flying lessons.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Hey, I'm back..............what it sounds like to me is that Mom has taken up with another pigeon. I don't know how often this happens in the wild feral pigeons, but it does occasionally happen in lofts.
> I would be afraid of putting that baby back in the box if the black pigeon is still coming around.
> Hens usually pick the nesting spot. Well, the males PICK it, but if the lady doesn't like it, he has to go find another spot.  It's very possible, and sounds like, Mom has brought another gentleman to her house. Now whether Dad will let him stay or kick his butt, remains to be seen, but you certainly don't want Junior in the midst of any fights that might take place.
> So..............I would try putting the baby somewhere where Dad can find it and see if he will still continue to feed and take care of it. IF the black pigeon goes away, then put the baby back in the box. IF he stays, Dad will most likely leave and the baby will be abandoned in all likely hood.
> ...


I thought pigeons mated for LIFE! Turns out Mom is a TRAMP!! The dad has been very vigilant ..He's chased the usual visitors away and is not letting any birds land near the pen or the roof. I have not seen the black (ADULTEROUS) pij since this morning. High drama!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> I thought pigeons mated for LIFE! Turns out Mom is a TRAMP!! The dad has been very vigilant ..He's chased the usual visitors away and is not letting any birds land near the pen or the roof. I have not seen the black (ADULTEROUS) pij since this morning. High drama!


LOL...........you're funny!..Yea, well, MOST of them do........however, there's always going to be the exception to every rule..............In the 8 years that I've had pigeons, I've never seen a hen leave her mate for another bird. I've seen hens let other males "have their way with her".......but she didn't leave her hubby.  I'm sure it happens though, more that we would like to think and you just happen to have witnessed it. Now, whether Mom will actually leave or whether Dad will actually let another male take his spot remains to be seen. Either way.......long as the baby is happy and fed, you just got to let the adults do whatever.......it's all about the kids.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey...don't rag on Mom...maybe she came from a broken home, too....

I think we may need to get all THREE of them on Dr. Phil (since Jerry Springer is unavailable)...but until then....

It's GREAT news that the lil' one still looks active and not injured and has a full crop. That's excellent.

All I can say is...PLEASE do what you can to critter-proof that area. Cats and rodents are awfully wily in their abilities to get where you think they cannot.

Keep us posted.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Ha! I thought this sort of shady sneaky stuff was limited to humans! 
It's all about the kids is right!
I wish I knew of a safer place to move them .. but I'm in Phoenix and it's so brutally hot and we're getting into our monsoon season too. The shady little corner seems tried and true (or as close as I'll get). Thanks everybody!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I thought pigeons mated for LIFE! Turns out Mom is a TRAMP!!


I have some tramps in my aviary too: two hens left their long term mates last summer when two handsome males were widowed.

But the most unexpected divorce happened when Jose and Josefina, a match made in heaven, had their first clutch. The babies were not yet 20 days old when Jose moved another hen into the flat next door and Josefina took up with a younger and less disabled pigeon.

BTW, on the subject of "Recognition of Young", this is from Feral Pigeons by Richard E Johnston and Marian Janiga, a good but rare (and therefore expensive) book:

_"Adult feral pigeons do not recognize their own offspring at 10 to 12 days. More than that, the parents are markedly site-specific and will return to the nestsite rather than brood chicks that have been experimentally placed 20 cm to 30 cm from the nest (Angal't 1982)...Adults are capable of recognizing their own young at about the time they fledge and make short exploratory flights (Goodwin 1977; Angal't 1982, Cramp 1985)."_
If the father is feeding him, it is most probably in response to the chick begging when the father is in the vicinity...in pigeon colonies, orphaned squabs beg from the adults and are often fed.

Cynthia


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Hahah!! Jose and Josefina .... _These Are The Days of Our Loft_ Scandalous!

That's so interesting to me about their not recognizing the babies outside of the nest. It makes our dad's vigilance all the more impressive to me. He's clearly broken-hearted over his wife's infidelity and subsequent abandonment of the family.. but instead of falling apart the way _some_ men do .. he's fighting the good fight! 

I'm a little concerned about Baby Cinco in that he's not so much of a squeaker in comparison ... He did watch intently early last night while his dad ate the seed we put out for him.. and later on I found him out of his corner and standing over the seed dish .. He was so cute he looked at me like ..
_Ok .. I THINK this is food but I'm not sure what to do about it._
I'll watch him to be sure his crop is full.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> BTW, on the subject of "Recognition of Young", this is from Feral Pigeons by Richard E Johnston and Marian Janiga, a good but rare (and therefore expensive) book:
> 
> _"Adult feral pigeons do not recognize their own offspring at 10 to 12 days. More than that, the parents are markedly site-specific and will return to the nestsite rather than brood chicks that have been experimentally placed 20 cm to 30 cm from the nest (Angal't 1982)...Adults are capable of recognizing their own young at about the time they fledge and make short exploratory flights (Goodwin 1977; Angal't 1982, Cramp 1985)."_
> If the father is feeding him, it is most probably in response to the chick begging when the father is in the vicinity...in pigeon colonies, orphaned squabs beg from the adults and are often fed.
> ...


And that is true............that's why, up to a certain age, you can move babies from one set of parents to another. I've always been told, as long as they haven't feathered out, pairs will except any baby, but once the feathers start coming in and there's "color" there, it's hard (or harder) to move the babies. I personally, wouldn't try moving a 12 day old baby. 10 days, yes, maybe, but after that it becomes "iffy"...........


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

OH GEEEEZ!!!! WTHECK!!

I just went out to check Cinco (the baby) and the black pigeon (homewrecker) is in the nest box ... FRANTICALLY turning in circles and making this awful shrieking noise! SO bold I walked right up under the box and it didn't budge! The baby is huddled in the corner just below and I haven't seem his dad since early AM ...I can't be sure but it looks like the black one may be a bird from a family that lives in a palm tree across the pool from the box section. 

All at once the black one flew across the yard and landed in the grass and started brawling with another pigeon... not feeding or mating but wrestling and pecking at one another.  I wonder if this is a female who is ready to lay some eggs and is trying a hostile takeover of some prime real estate in the shade! 

Cinco's crop looks less fluffy  I'm going to run to Petsmart and get some formula and a syringe. Can you guys help me make a list? I wanna be ready in case the Dad doesn't win the turf war!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> OH GEEEEZ!!!! WTHECK!!
> 
> I just went out to check Cinco (the baby) and the black pigeon (homewrecker) is in the nest box ... FRANTICALLY turning in circles and making this awful shrieking noise! SO bold I walked right up under the box and it didn't budge! The baby is huddled in the corner just below and I haven't seem his dad since early AM ...I can't be sure but it looks like the black one may be a bird from a family that lives in a palm tree across the pool from the box section.
> 
> ...



So, the saga continues.............LOL.......sorry, know it's not funny, but when you post I get these images...............so, anyway...
You don't really need a list. Just get the formula, the smallest bag/container you can buy, cause you won't need it a WHOLE lot longer and it doesn't last forever. The syringe of course and something to keep Cinco in, if you don't already have something. You've got bird seed, right? There's not a lot of "stuff" needed to raise a baby pigeon............


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> So, the saga continues.............LOL.......sorry, know it's not funny, but when you post I get these images...............so, anyway...
> You don't really need a list. Just get the formula, the smallest bag/container you can buy, cause you won't need it a WHOLE lot longer and it doesn't last forever. The syringe of course and something to keep Cinco in, if you don't already have something. You've got bird seed, right? There's not a lot of "stuff" needed to raise a baby pigeon............


Ok cool! LOL I know my descriptions sound like an episode of FALCON CREST or something ...But boy that black one is planted in the box looking all puffed up and pissed off!  One other question ... I have a box to put him in .. my best estimate is 17 days old today ...What size box will be safe? .. I worry about my dogs .. they're so "playful" I need to be sure it's big enough that he won't be able to get out of it. 

PS .. still hoping dad feeds him. and that I don't have to bring him in.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Ok cool! LOL I know my descriptions sound like an episode of FALCON CREST or something ...But boy that black one is planted in the box looking all puffed up and pissed off!  One other question ... I have a box to put him in .. my best estimate is 17 days old today ...What size box will be safe? .. I worry about my dogs .. they're so "playful" I need to be sure it's big enough that he won't be able to get out of it.
> 
> PS .. still hoping dad feeds him. and that I don't have to bring him in.


At 17 days, he won't be able to get out of anything more than 12 inches high. Another 10 days and that will all change. LOL Can the DOGS get IN the box is the big question...........


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> At 17 days, he won't be able to get out of anything more than 12 inches high. Another 10 days and that will all change. LOL Can the DOGS get IN the box is the big question...........


BEST NEWS! Dad just came back kicked the black pij's ass out of the box ... had himself some seed and water and fed the baby! Cinco's all fluffy and happy again! Dad's up on the roof now looking all victorious and proud!


*Thank you for joining us for today's installment of .. As The Wing Flaps * *We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. * _Wind beneath my wings _((((plays softly in the background)))) .......


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> BEST NEWS! Dad just came back kicked the black pij's ass out of the box ... had himself some seed and water and fed the baby! Cinco's all fluffy and happy again! Dad's up on the roof now looking all victorious and proud!


That's good news for sure!! You gotta give this Daddy bird a name........a GOOD name..............









THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLOL..



NewPigie said:


> *Thank you for joining us for today's installment of .. As The Wing Flaps * We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> That's good news for sure!! You gotta give this Daddy bird a name........a GOOD name..............
> 
> 
> I just went and looked at him .... and I told him ...I crown thee... *BIG DADDY!!*


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Lovebirds said:
> 
> 
> > That's good news for sure!! You gotta give this Daddy bird a name........a GOOD name..............
> ...


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> NewPigie said:
> 
> 
> > That's perfect, cause I'm TERRIBLE with coming up with names, unless something just pops in my head in the spur of the moment. If I have to THINK about it, I'm useless............
> ...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Lovebirds said:
> 
> 
> > Well ... I haven't seen her since the day she invited her boyfriend into the nest ... (HUSSY!) .. My husband said he thought he may have seen her yesterday doing _sexy times_ on the roof with some random suitor...
> ...


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> NewPigie said:
> 
> 
> > We've got a Yorkie too. Gabby. She's about 3 1/2 lbs.........Maybe Mom flew the coop OR she's on eggs somewhere maybe..........who knows? I think it's amazing that Big Daddy is still taking care of his youngin. Humans should take notes...............
> ...


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Big Daddy Ruling The Roost! 

Down in the corner between the statue and the potted plant is where Cinco is hiding out.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Don't know about everyone else but I can't WAIT for tomorrow's episode  They way you're telling the story is hysterical! So glad Big Daddy kicked the black piji outta that box (go Daddy, go Daddy, ). Hope Cinco grows up just like his Dad!


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Dezirrae said:


> Don't know about everyone else but I can't WAIT for tomorrow's episode  They way you're telling the story is hysterical! So glad Big Daddy kicked the black piji outta that box (go Daddy, go Daddy, ). Hope Cinco grows up just like his Dad!


Oh I hope he grows up like Big Daddy too!


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

I took some pics yesterday of little Cinco. He's doing really well. He's been spending a lot of time out of his corner hiding spot. He's 21 days old today. I guess I should take him to a bar and buy him a beer huh? Oh wait that's 21 YEARS. nevermind...

Big Daddy has been such a STAR! Yesterday afternoon a big storm was rolling in and he came down into the "gated community" and sat with Cinco until it passed. Big Daddy is like the Brad Pitt family man ... I hope this new wife is his Angelina.

Oh guess what? Big Daddy has a NEW LOVER! She's very pretty and they've been in the box together a lot. She's funny the new girl.. she gently pecks at his head almost constantly.. I figure she's agreed to be his new wife BUT she has to clear his head off all the BAGGAGE his 2 ex-wives left behind. 

Some of the pics are bad because I was shooting through the tinted windows.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesh...&Uy=-gjomkn&Ux=0&UV=425578885379_583949498208


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> I took some pics yesterday of little Cinco. He's doing really well. He's been spending a lot of time out of his corner hiding spot. He's 21 days old today. I guess I should take him to a bar and buy him a beer huh? Oh wait that's 21 YEARS. nevermind...
> 
> Big Daddy has been such a STAR! Yesterday afternoon a big storm was rolling in and he came down into the "gated community" and sat with Cinco until it passed. Big Daddy is like the Brad Pitt family man ... I hope this new wife is his Angelina.
> 
> ...


Boy, Big Daddy sure is feeding Cinco good!! Some others will pop in and see the pictures and give their opinion............I'd like to see some new pictures in a few days. Cinco has that bald looking space under his face/beak........I've learned from here, (cause I've never actually seen it) that it CAN be a sign of canker. Don't know and don't want to alarm you. Do you provide water for these guys?


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Boy, Big Daddy sure is feeding Cinco good!! Some others will pop in and see the pictures and give their opinion............I'd like to see some new pictures in a few days. Cinco has that bald looking space under his face/beak........I've learned from here, (cause I've never actually seen it) that it CAN be a sign of canker. Don't know and don't want to alarm you. Do you provide water for these guys?


Hi Lovebirds,
I do put fresh water out twice a day .. but nobody ever seems to drink it. His crop looks huge like that often. Of course these pics were taken within minutes of feeding. I'd love some more input as I'm 1 for 6 with the babies born out there so far and I really want Cinco to make it!

ETA .. I just went to get some better pics of his neck ... lol .. I was shooting close-ups and I whispered .._come on Cinco, show me your neck _ and he pulled his head back to give me a perfect shot of it.... it looks red and sort of lumpy ..no feathers there at all.  Canker is treatable right?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Hi Lovebirds,
> I do put fresh water out twice a day .. but nobody ever seems to drink it. His crop looks huge like that often. Of course these pics were taken within minutes of feeding. I'd love some more input as I'm 1 for 6 with the babies born out there so far and I really want Cinco to make it!
> 
> ETA .. I just went to get some better pics of his neck ... lol .. I was shooting close-ups and I whispered .._come on Cinco, show me your neck _ and he pulled his head back to give me a perfect shot of it.... it looks red and sort of lumpy ..no feathers there at all.  Canker is treatable right?


Yes, it's treatable. I've got another member taking a look at the pictures. If she thinks he might have canker, you'll have to catch him.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Oh, yea...........nice pictures. I believe he's got something going on there for sure now.................let's see what Charis says...............


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Oh, yea...........nice pictures. I believe he's got something going on there for sure now.................let's see what Charis says...............


Thanks ...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Ok. Charis thinks it looks suspicious too. She had to run and said she'd check in later. Thing is......if the baby has canker, I assume that Dad does too. Of course, catching him would be darn near impossible I would guess,,,,,,,,but Cinco can be captured and treated. Have you touched him or anything at all? What I mean, is, is he scared of you? How hard would it be to catch more than one time? If you could catch him and have a look down his throat and tell us what you see. Then, you'd either have to keep him or catch him again. 21 days old, he's just on the verge of doing some flying. I'm won't say that if he got scared enough, he wouldn't take off........maybe not get very far, but far enough that you wouldn't be able to get to him. Of course, you'd have to get the medicine............crap.......what cha think?


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Ok. Charis thinks it looks suspicious too. She had to run and said she'd check in later. Thing is......if the baby has canker, I assume that Dad does too. Of course, catching him would be darn near impossible I would guess,,,,,,,,but Cinco can be captured and treated. Have you touched him or anything at all? What I mean, is, is he scared of you? How hard would it be to catch more than one time? If you could catch him and have a look down his throat and tell us what you see. Then, you'd either have to keep him or catch him again. 21 days old, he's just on the verge of doing some flying. I'm won't say that if he got scared enough, he wouldn't take off........maybe not get very far, but far enough that you wouldn't be able to get to him. Of course, you'd have to get the medicine............crap.......what cha think?


I've never touched him ... when I go into the little area to put seed and water down her stays in the corner. I think I could catch him ... but I'd hate to upset at this stage and scare him away! Dad would NEVER let me get him. 
Is there any way to get something yummy to feed them and put the medicine in it?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> I've never touched him ... when I go into the little area to put seed and water down her stays in the corner. I think I could catch him ... but I'd hate to upset at this stage and scare him away! Dad would NEVER let me get him.
> Is there any way to get something yummy to feed them and put the medicine in it?


Well, we've got a couple of members in AZ...........but they are in Mesa.......one, I don't know exactly where she is. They would have medicine, but you can get pills that the bird has to swallow and you can get stuff to mix in the water. Would depend on which they have. Either way, the baby isn't going to swallow a pill for you. It has to be put in their mouth and make them swallow. And he's probably not drinking water on his own yet, so THAT would have to be syringed into his mouth. I'm thinking that you're probably going to need to catch little Cinco.........but don't do anything just yet. We'll figure it out. If we can get you the pills, I don't know if it's a one time thing, two days, three days............


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, we've got a couple of members in AZ...........but they are in Mesa.......one, I don't know exactly where she is. They would have medicine, but you can get pills that the bird has to swallow and you can get stuff to mix in the water. Would depend on which they have. Either way, the baby isn't going to swallow a pill for you. It has to be put in their mouth and make them swallow. And he's probably not drinking water on his own yet, so THAT would have to be syringed into his mouth. I'm thinking that you're probably going to need to catch little Cinco.........but don't do anything just yet. We'll figure it out. If we can get you the pills, I don't know if it's a one time thing, two days, three days............


Ok ... I can certainly drive to Mesa to get medicine .. it's only about a 20 minute drive. Isn't it odd that none of them ever drinks the water I put out? It's so damned hot and dry here most of the time. Like you said .. catching him *once *and then putting him back won't be a problem I don't think... further than that I don't know ..mixing with water will be a probelm since they never drink it! ANyway ... I'll do whatever I need to.

ETA .. he's pecking at the seed I put out for Dad ... I think he may have thrown it up ..is that bad should I clear the seed away?? Now he has a white spot on his neck .. I put new pics up


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Ok ...
> *I can certainly drive to Mesa to get medicine *.. it's only about a 20 minute drive. Isn't it odd that none of them ever drinks the water I put out? It's so damned hot and dry here most of the time. Like you said .. catching him *once *and then putting him back won't be a problem I don't think... further than that I don't know
> *..mixing with water will be a probelm since they never drink it*! ANyway ... I'll do whatever I need to.
> 
> ETA .. he's pecking at the seed I put out for Dad ... I think he may have thrown it up ..is that bad should I clear the seed away?? Now he has a white spot on his neck .. I put new pics up


Hi Guys, 

I have some Spartrix. 

He should probably be able to swallow it, if we cut it in half. Or we can dissolve it in as much water that an eye dropper will hold & administer it that way. Either way, I don't see it being a problem.

Let me know what the consensus is. 

Cindy


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have some Spartrix.
> 
> ...



Hi Cindy,
Would you mind if I came over to pick up the Spartrix? I'll pay you for it. Is it a one time dose type deal?

Should I bring Cinco with me? LOL I've never REALLY handled a bird before. Well except to put one back in a tree nest. 

Leslie


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

All Right!! I love it when a plan comes together!! Thank you Cindy! I'll let you gals sort it out since I'm on the other side of the world.........LOL........I'm sure glad you posted those pictures of Cinco.........


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Cindy, what do you think about trying to treat Daddy? It's been suggested to crush up some Spartix, soak some seeds and see if he would eat them. I'm thinking that he probably doesn't "have" canker, but was told he might have passed it to Cinco even though he's showing no symptoms.........I don't know...........


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> All Right!! I love it when a plan comes together!! Thank you Cindy! I'll let you gals sort it out since I'm on the other side of the world.........LOL........I'm sure glad you posted those pictures of Cinco.........


Me too .. I was just showing off his *FABULOSITY*I really didn't see anything wrong with him .. I thought he just had a naturally funky looking neck. 

Oh PS .. I just read that canker can be passed on from parents without symptoms.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Renee, you did good!!! We have had them in with feathers missing like that around their throat and head and the young ones were fine, but I know Pidgey has always alerted me about the bare areas so I'm more cautious about them now.

If he is throwing up, I'd guess he has canker.

Many thanks for your care and concern. Pigeons are well worth our love and support.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Renee, you did good!!! We have had them in with feathers missing like that around their throat and head and the young ones were fine, but I know Pidgey has always alerted me about the bare areas so I'm more cautious about them now.
> 
> If he is throwing up, I'd guess he has canker.
> 
> Many thanks for your care and concern. Pigeons are well worth our love and support.


Hi Lady,
It's gross but in one of the pics you can see some whole seed that looks like he spit it up ... I haven't seen him throw up though. Today was the first time I saw him even attempt seed.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Hi Cindy,
> * *Would you mind if I came over to pick up the Spartrix?*
> 
> ** *I'll pay you for it*.
> ...


* Not at all. I'll pm you my phone number. Give me a call & I'll give you directions. 

** No, no. These are for whoever ever needs them. 
Thankfully, I haven't needed any for a while. Guess I should clarify, my backyard flock hasn't needed any for a while.  

*** As a preventative I usually only give one, however if you suspect he's got canker, he may need an additional dose or two. 

If you'd like, bring him along with you & I'll have a look & help with medicating him. 



Lovebirds said:


> * *Cindy, what do you think about trying to treat Daddy?*
> *It's been suggested to crush up some Spartix, soak some seeds and see if he would eat them.*
> 
> I'm thinking that he probably doesn't "have" canker, but was told he might have passed it to Cinco even though he's showing no symptoms.........I don't know...........


I guess it's worth a shot, Renee. I've never tried it. 

Cindy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Whatever you gals think is best. If Dad's going to continue feeding him, wouldn't giving the baby meds just sort of be a waste? I don't know..........so, what's going to happen to Cinco now? Does he come inside to finish growing? or?...............just asking.............poor baby, guess he's going to freak out a bit huh? I just hope it was caught in time...........


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Lovebirds said:


> Whatever you gals think is best.
> 
> * *If Dad's going to continue feeding him, wouldn't giving the baby meds just sort of be a waste?*
> I don't know..........
> ...


* Yes, I think it would. I just haven't put Spartrix with seeds so I don't know how effective it would be. But if that's the only option, then I'd go for it.
I've always had the bird in hand.

** I was actually going to suggest that to Leslie. 
I think he should be isolated for a bit, especially if Dad does have canker.

Cindy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

If she's willing, I think that's the best thing to do too. He's almost grown anyway..........I expect in another couple of days, she can get him to eat on his own and drink water too. Then I guess just let him loose again in her yard? Ya'll talk about it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If you want to treat Daddy then carve a hole in a peanut, put the spartrix in the hole and throw the peanut to him when there are no other pigeons competing...this method has been very effective for our friend Les.

Cynthia


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi everybody and thank you. I just came from Cindy's house and let me tell you just how absolutely lovely she is! She has a beautiful aviary set up in her Arizona room and it's all is so CLEAN and NEAT! Her house is darling ..She is a beautiful lady inside and out. 

Upon further inspection Cindy felt concerned that Cinco was too thin and had a lot of canker going on. She put me in touch with a rehabber who then put me in touch with a rehabber in my neighborhood and I went straight there from Cindy's house. Joyce is the rehabber who has him now and says she will tube feed him and treat him with something that starts with a B ??? I'm sorry I don't recall the name of it. 


Cyro .. thanks for the peanut idea but ... if the pill is the size of the nutI don't know how exactly to make a hole to fit it?? Should I cut the pill in half? I feel so blonde.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> Hi everybody and thank you. I just came from Cindy's house and let me tell you just how absolutely lovely she is! She has a beautiful aviary set up in her Arizona room and it's all is so CLEAN and NEAT! Her house is darling ..She is a beautiful lady inside and out.
> 
> Upon further inspection Cindy felt concerned that Cinco was too thin and had a lot of canker going on. She put me in touch with a rehabber who then put me in touch with a rehabber in my neighborhood and I went straight there from Cindy's house. Joyce is the rehabber who has him now and says she will tube feed him and treat him with something that starts with a B ??? I'm sorry I don't recall the name of it.
> 
> ...


Wow! Thank you Cindy! Cinco is apparently in good hands now and hopefully all will go well. What are the plans for him after all of this is over? Can't help you with the peanut/pill......I don't even know what the pill looks like. 
You sure have done an amazing job and I still can't believe that because of your pictures, little Cinco has a chance. If we hadn't caught this, he had zero chance of making it. Whew!!
So, don't go away on us. Big Daddy and new mommy will probably set up the nursery and in no time flat.........."here we go again"..........


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Wow! Thank you Cindy! Cinco is apparently in good hands now and hopefully all will go well. What are the plans for him after all of this is over? Can't help you with the peanut/pill......I don't even know what the pill looks like.
> You sure have done an amazing job and I still can't believe that because of your pictures, little Cinco has a chance. If we hadn't caught this, he had zero chance of making it. Whew!!
> So, don't go away on us. Big Daddy and new mommy will probably set up the nursery and in no time flat.........."here we go again"..........


LOL Big Daddy and his new wife are setting up the nursery as we speak ... I am waiting on someone to help me with ideas get the spartix in him ... I'd like to bring Cinco home after his rehab. Hopefully that will work out.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Wonder if he would eat a sunflower seed shell without the seed and WITH the pill tucked inside. How big are those pills anyway? Never seen one.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Wonder if he would eat a sunflower seed shell without the seed and WITH the pill tucked inside. How big are those pills anyway? Never seen one.



Oh About the size of an aspirin...


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

UPDATE.. My husband got out his power tools and drilled the peanut and we crushed the pill up and poured it in the hole


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NewPigie said:


> UPDATE.. My husband got out his power tools and drilled the peanut and we crushed the pill up and poured it in the hole


That's ONE way to do it!! Hope it works.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

NewPigie said:


> UPDATE.. My husband got out his power tools and drilled the peanut and we crushed the pill up and poured it in the hole


He won't eat it ... He's just pacing around looking for Cinco.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> He won't eat it ... He's just pacing around looking for Cinco


Poor baby! He has been such an exceptionally good father to Cinco.

Cynthia


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

cyro51 said:


> Poor baby! He has been such an exceptionally good father to Cinco.
> 
> Cynthia


Oh I know I feel so sad for him ... I broke up the peanut and mixed it with seed ... we'll see if he eats it.


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

I just called the rehabber who has Cinco. She says she thinks it's vascular canker and is very concerned that it won't dislodge. 

I've tried ten different ways from Sunday to treat the parents ..with no luck. 

The worse new is Big Daddy won't even eat his seed and is coming around less since Cinco went away. I think he doesn't trust me any more. 

The rehabber said she has a pigeon trap that I can borrow .. She rushed me off the phone and never did explain how it works. 

Is this something an amateur like me could use?

I know I should feel ok about giving Cinco a chance and all .. but all I feel is sad right now.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have never even heard of vascular canker! Thank goodness Renee spotted the bare spots, I had looked at the phptos several time and just thought "How cute!".

A pigeon trap is easy to use, it depends on the pigeon going into it and that's about it. I hope that Dady can be helped, he and Cinco are so dear to us now.

Cynthia


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## NewPigie (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Cynthia ... I feel terrible about not even knowing her was sick. Thank goodness Renee noticed.

I found this one the internet that has a one way door ... I think even I could do that  .. Big Daddy seems mad at me though and hasn't touched his seed since I tried to slip him the Spartrix.. I guess it's worth a try.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Hi  Just wondering if you have any updates on Cinco and/or Big Daddy. Hope all is going well.


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