# Lucy CLyde is getting aggressive



## gmpret (Aug 28, 2004)

I need your help. Lucy Clyde is becoming agressive. Now, when she's sitting on her chadelier (yes, _her_ chandelier) and you approach her she will puff up and do her pigeon dance and make noises straight out of Star Wars. We're ok with that since that's her space. However, she is often biting (real biting, not the curious pecking we're used to) and it HURTS!  The bites seem unprovoked, and often they happen after she has been lazily sitting on our shoulders for hours helping us read the newspaper, or other normal daily activites she is used to.  

If anyone can help identify possible reasons, I will try to document when the bites occur and what she (and we) were doing at the time. So far we have not found any logical pattern. 

I do want to point out that I am the one who receives these bites the least (I am also the one who fed her the most when she was a baby). She has only gotten "angry" with me once. She does seem particularly negative towards our daughter, who is the only girl in the human family. I mention this as I thought it might help give us a clue as to whether Lucy Clyde is a Lucy or a Clyde. Any help will be most appreciated! Thanks!


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## ernie (May 3, 2003)

Hmmm....
Sounds to me, like she's a boy  
Puffing up of the chest and neck area would pretty much indicate that.

When he bites, which area of your body does he go for?


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

How old is your pigeon?


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Mary,

Check out the "Meet Lucy Clyde" thread...looks like this one was born first or second week of August....Probably just typical rebellious, feisty "teenager" behavior, right?

Linda


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello Linda,

Yes, exactly.. that's what I thought as well. Seems like typical young bird behaviour.

I wouldn't worry too much, gmpret, about Lucy Clyde at the moment


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

There will come a time where lil Clyde/ Lucy will quit looking at you like mom and pop and will be looking at his place in the pecking order, And you are the only one's that he has to dominate and proove anything to LOL , the chandelier is that birds perch and it's his and he's telling you so. Born in late Augest I would say that he's playing the part at the moment but if he/she grows into a cocky cockbird you will have to let him know who's boss, in a loft this isnt critical but in the house with a hand fed bird ? My foster loft is an open loft and I once had a cockbird in there that was hand raised that was dominate over the other cocks and wanted to take over nest boxes, So I spent a day in and out of the loft slapping him around with my little Nazi hat (you had me pegged Phyll LOL) when ever he was in anothers nest box . Finally he summited to me as being top cock in the loft and I never had another problem with him.

Scott
PS Never had one hurt me by pecking a little, better than wing whacks LOL


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Motherlodelofts said:


> ...So I spent a day in and out of the loft slapping him around ...


  

What do you mean... "slapping him around?"


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK Scott .. enough .. keep your threads straight .. the Phyll post is in another thread. If you wish to respond to her, then do it there and not here.

Also "slapping around" isn't considered good form here. 

I personally think you are looking for a battle .. if so, keep it up .. I'll give you one and then boot you .. yes, I =am= one of the Nazi crew here. I'll put up with a lot, but you are getting to the edge ..

Why can't you use your knowledge and experience to help others?

Terry

PS: I do detect some good and usefullness in your post after me zapping you .. you need to work on your bulletin board manner.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Zig it is as it implies. Have you ever seen cock birds fight ? they slap each other around useing the full force of thier wingbutts. Whenever you have birds going into a loft they will take perches and nest boxes by fighting for them. The dominate birds will allways take higher the perch or nest boxes and they will do it by forcing those of the lower order to take what is left. In a open loft situation many time's some of these dominate cocks will also take over more nest boxes even though their original is still being used and it doesn't matter that the one that they are trying to take is occupied by a more passave pair, generally you'll end up with trampled young, broken eggs or scalped youngsters. And that is when you need to step in. By "slapping" them around with a hat, They will fight back and basicly you just want to win, Of coarse you don't "beat" them with it. You are simulating a cock bird fight and the goal is for them to submit to you. This is done when they are in a nest box that they don't belong in. Generally when I have this situation I want the cock bird that belongs to the box in the mix also as once the dominate bird wears the other cock kinda just takes over to do the final push out of the box. One it build his confidence up and two the aggressive cock remembers who pushed who out of the box. Generally it takes more than once. There are other methods such as tethering but this is the fastest method. The original reason that I brought this up relates to the thread as aggressive birds that are so tame as the one in the post may need to be put into the correct pecking order. And there is only one way to do it. Or you can just let him think that he's boss and put up with the pecking and wing slapping.
Scott


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Terry I am who I am. If that is unacceptable to you then I suggest that you boot me, besides I allready put my time in the Marine Corp. I am glad that you detected "some" good and usefullness in my post after "zapping" me. What ever that is. What I don't understand is why didn't you delete your zapping post after you realized that my post had some merit ? That post was posted expressing what I know from experiance and nothing more, and then to come in here and find these false accusations along with you trying to belittle me here in public. Your not just a little power punchy are you ?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Scott,
If you have any further comments to make to an individual member, that is not directly related to pigeons, please do so by private email.

Thank you,
Cindy


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

ML, Thanks. Now I understand what you mean by "slapping him around". I'll admit that it may or may not be something I'd do, but at least I understand and don't think you're abusing your birds outright, like it did sound.

For what its worth, rather then to sit back and say "I am who I am" use a bit of consideration when you post... its not too hard to see what will "push peoples buttons", which, frankly, it seems you've done. I'm not saying you shouldn't speak your mind, but it would be more sensable to explain yourself more clearly... i.e. it took you two posts to explain what you meant by "slapping them around"... rather then to just post part of the story in words that will obviously spool some people up, at the worst, and lead to misunderstandings and confusion at the least. In effect, its always worth one's while to choose their words carefully. Unless, of course, you are out to just push some folks buttons then the Mods may have a point and you're not really a wise as you may think you are. v/r, Zig.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Here we go again....and again....*

Hi Everyone,

I think everyone probably knows that this kind of thing happening is a special pet peeve of mine. I have resisted joining in till now, but I just wanted to point out a few opinions of mine...hope no one minds or gets offended...I am trying to do it as respectfully as possible, but get my point across at the same time.

From Scott:
*So I spent a day in and out of the loft slapping him around with my little Nazi hat (you had me pegged Phyll LOL*)
Did everyone here (except me) miss the LOL in this statement that tells you he is not seriously speaking of beating his pigeons?

From Terry:
*I personally think you are looking for a battle .. if so, keep it up .. I'll give you one and then boot you*
If this is not a direct challenge practically begging for more trouble, then I don't know what is.

From Zig:
*its always worth one's while to choose their words carefully*
Zig, You are right to a certain point. People should try to post in a way that avoids misunderstandings about what they are saying. But I also feel some of us a just a little too sensitive in the way we are interpreting some of the posts. You did exactly the right thing by not jumping to conclusions and just asking Scott to clarify instead of the scoldings that usually are in response to these types of posts.

I really think we would all be better served by "lightening up" just a little bit.

JMHO  
Linda


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Zing abusing my birds out right ? It is nothing more than understanding pigeon behavior, The loft is like an aqaurium, It's a vessel and everything in it has to have a balance as far as health and harmony, The good of the loft is allways first priority over individual pigeons whether we are dealing with health issues or aggressive birds, such birds adds stress and chaos through out the loft all of which opens up a whole host of problems, And you are raising pigeons there will come a time that you will have these type of birds with the type of problems that I stated before such as broken eggs,scalped or trampled youngsters, and I can assure you that there is nothing abused here as far as pigeons or anything else on the property from household pets to Barbados sheep. I don't know Zig, I was'nt raised in a city and I have been around all types of animals my entire life and I have a true love for them, But the good of the barn yard allways comes first and the same holds true with a pigeon loft . But no doubt I have a different out look than many here and it is better that I just bow out of here.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well said, Linda. I offer my apolgies to Scott and the other board members for my inappropriate post.

Terry


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Thank you Terry. And I can no doubt work on my "board" manners. 
Scott


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Wow! I had to modify this post because in the time it took me to write it, everything got resolved. 
Thanks so much to all of you.

My original post: 
Well here I am, again, coming in at a rather late date to make some talk about pigeon care and people care.
Hope I have don't get banned from this place.

My observations:
People care:

1. When you say something that somehow, someway offends someone, you should apologize. Like Terry just did.
2. When you are crude and rough around the edges, you need to try harder to get along with people who are not. That is if your want to get along. Being right on the content and wrong on the form (how you say it) usually means you are wrong.
3. Looking for reasons to rescue someone from abuse or shame can be a full time job.
Let people learn to stand up for themselves.
4. When your feelings get hurt, try thinking your way out of it the bag, instead of feeling your way. Feelers need to think more, thinkers need to feel more.
5. If you come to www.pigeons.com to participate in pigeon talk, then please know that you are welcome only as long as you are welcomed. If you keep getting into scrapes with a various people, perhaps you should consider changing your talk behavior, or just move on along to some other forum. Wing slapping on this forum just does not get the expected response. 

Pigeon care:

1. A loft setting is different than having one or two birds in the home as pets.
So the training is also a little different.
2. I think Scott is correct when he says that the bird needs to know who is at the top of the pecking order. But in my experience, rough treatment (fighting) with a young pet bird may get the bird to know who is boss, but it also teaches the bird to be rough and tough with anyone else under him on the pecking order. 
3. I like to use “distraction” in place of confrontation, calm responses in an effort to get the bird to calm down, not excite him.
4. When I see behavior that I want to change, I go to the bird and try to change the subject. I will pick him up and pet him; I might turn and walk away, or even divert his attention to something else. What I am saying here is not rocket science. You just need to use your imagination on ways to distract your bird from the unwanted behavior. 

Yes, I think we have a cock bird here, not a hen. That is, until the egg drops. 
Young male birds are often feisty, tough and try to get away with as much as they can before they are challenged or distracted. When it comes to house pet bird training, I prefer the distraction and patience approach. 

Respectively submitted to all,
Regards,

Carl


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