# abscess on pigeon



## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi everyone, 
I recently purchased a young homing pigeon and upon examining her today I found an abscess/lump below her vent. She did have a lot of mites on her but not sure they could of caused that. She's eating and drinking. Any ideas on what it is?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

My guess is pox. You'll need to separate her from other birds. Parasites can infect feather shafts. You can think of it kind of like an ingrown hair on us. Not sure if it would look that bad though, as I haven't had to deal with any infected feathers. I would assume there would be some of the shaft left in there, or a whole feather if that was the case.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

that looks like her vent and mites can irritate that area.. get rid of them and she should get better..a bit of neosporin on it may help. not sure about the pox thing..but if that is the case it will heal, keep her isolated and clean.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi h.mracers,



Can you post some good close up images of her freshest poops?

And, a new image or two, of the efflicted area or possible Abcess? I can not tell if this IS the Vent itself, or, up from the Vent, so...let us know which?


Mites are horrible and can end up menacing people and other Animals, so, get some good brand of Pet Bird 'Mite and Lice' Spray, and, check back with us on how to use it safely...you really will be best off eradicating the Mites, believe me!


Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your help! 
An update on the pigeon.. The abscess is not on the vent itself, it is closer towards between it's feet. it has not gotten any better, i've been treating it with neosporin and vetericyn. The bird is a young bird but is at the age where it should be starting to fly, but still isn't flying. Not sure if that is related.. I contacted the breeder of the bird and i'm waiting for a response. Any other suggestions until then? i'll get updated pics in the morning. Also, all the birds have been treated for mites.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Could be Naval Canker.

Is there a yellowish debris condition inside the afflicted area?


Better closer images will help...


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

What u really need to do,is to take her to a vet straightaway........no use of guess work,it needs expert evaluation and investigations.so please make it fast


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Dr. Boney, I really care about my birds however, I cannot afford an expensive vet visit on a pigeon, so I will have to treat it the best I can at home.

Phil, I can't really see inside it. The top is extremely hard, it feels almost callused. I tried taking some photos of her poop but she spilled her water and made a mess so i'll have to try again tomorrow. It is protruding out pretty far. I'm not sure if I should try to peel it off or what.. I'll keep treating it how i've been treating it for now, but the sticky neosporin has been attracting lots of dirt and poop to that area


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...my best guess is Naval Canker, but I would like to see some more, better, closer images.

Also need good close up images of the fresh poops.

Twist Tie a flat bottom Coffee Cup Handle to the Cage, and let that be her Water Bowl, so no more tipping.

Few Vets would even know what this is anyway, regardless of the cost of the visit.


If this is Naval Canker, you would want to use an Oral systemic Anti-Canker med, and, I can direct you to also make and use a special topical Solution.

What do you have for Meds on hand?

Are you near any Farm and Feed Stores?

Can you buy meds from internet Pigeon Supply places?


More details on what meds to get, soon as I read your reply.


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## citycowgirl (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks for your quick reply. 
On hand I have tetracycline, sulmet and metronidazole (which i used to treat canker before)
I'll get some more pictures asap in the morning. I do have one right now but that area is very dirty with her running around in her poop and it is really hard to see. I've been trying to clean it off with warm water but the feathers seem to be getting stained and I can't cut them back any further without them bleeding.. The picture looks like I don't care about her but really I do! Because she can't fly and is in an isolation cage she's been sitting in her own poop Would you like to see the pic anyways?


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## citycowgirl (Feb 16, 2011)

And for topical I've been using vetericyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

citycowgirl said:


> Thanks for your quick reply.
> On hand I have tetracycline, sulmet and metronidazole (which i used to treat canker before)
> I'll get some more pictures asap in the morning. I do have one right now but that area is very dirty with her running around in her poop and it is really hard to see. I've been trying to clean it off with warm water but the feathers seem to be getting stained and I can't cut them back any further without them bleeding.. The picture looks like I don't care about her but really I do! Because she can't fly and is in an isolation cage she's been sitting in her own poop Would you like to see the pic anyways?



What happened to h.mracewrs?



Yes...post whatever images you have, then try for better ones tomorrow.

Are you saying that poop/urate material is clinging to the Feathers around the Vent as an incidental to the Bird's elimination process?

Or, that poop/urates which have been deposited cleanly, are merely getting on her Feathers where-ever, from her sitting on the poops?


Any Farm and Feed Stores near you?


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

It's my sisters account sorry i didn't realize she was still logged in! we both fly, different lofts. she told me about the site when i encountered this issue.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

they are being deposited cleanly, and merely getting on her from sitting on them and the neosporin is making it even messier being so sticky. and yes, plenty of feed stores


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

here is a picture of the poop from the night.. the newspaper is wet from water(my bad, i spilled it while i picked up the cage)


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Is there anyway you can get this little one cleaned up a bit, then wet the area well with a spray bottle and take a few more shots. Wetting the area will better expose things so we can see the surrounding area better, come a bit back with the camera, and take a bunch of shots, so you can see if you can get some better focused ones with very good lighting.

Karyn


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

My camera isn't the best and she wouldn't sit still so please bear with me.. Here is what I was able to get, also a recent picture of her poop. Very watery...?? Thanks for the help!


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

another pic


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi h.mracers,


My friendly Wager, is that this Pigeon has Canker in their system, and, has Naval Canker as one, possibly primary manifestation of it.


What I would do, is to treat them systemically with say Metronidazole, orally, and, very importantly, make a solution for swabbing the nodule topically, as well.

Solution would be any decent antibiotic and Metronidazole - say, about what would be two days dose of those, dissolved in an ounce of Water, to which one adds five or six drops of 'DMSO'.

You can get DMSO at any Farm and Feed Store.


The oral regimin should be stretched out a while, and, the topical swabbing/saturaiton of the nodule with the Solution, should be done two or three times a day for the next ten days or so.

I would do that, and, see how things go.

Please post fresh poop images every other day or so, along with updated close ups of the nodule area.


Have their drinking Water be the famous "ACV" Water - just get a one Galloon plastic Jug for this...try four Tablespoons of the ACV to a Gallon of Water, and if they abide that, great, if they will not, pour out 1/4th of it and add more Water to then have a 3 Tablespoon to the Gallon concentration, and see how that goes.


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

My sister has horses and they needed DMSO.. I know she has some but my guess is that it's pretty old.. Do you know if it expires?

Also, the Metronidazole I have is this one
http://www.jedds.com/-strse-523/MEDITRICH-100-tablets-(Medpet)/Detail.bok

I know my sister treated another bird with this a few weeks ago using Karyns instruction of 50mg the first day and 25mg for 6 days after that. Would I use the same dosage or the instructions on the bottle? (100mg, one time dose)
Thanks!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi h.mracers,


Your Sister's 'DMSO' should still be fine...It has a very long shelf life.

The Metronidazole, if these are 100 mG Tablets, I would just to half-a-Tablet a day for a week...then taper down to maybe 1/3rd Tabler for a few more days.


What does this Pigeon weigh?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

She's young.. Still has little yellow frills coming out of her head. Not sure of her exact weight. Her parents are both big strong homers and she seems like she's going to be just as big.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm going to wait to start treatment until I hear back from you..I don't think I was clear earlier about how young she was. Thanks!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Treatment would be the same...unless she was conspicuously light weight or small.

You could use just a little less than half-a-Tablet a day of the Metronidazole, so that she is getting roughly 45 mG a-day for a few days.

I usually just break the Tablet in half over a crisp edge of something, and if need be shave a little off that with a single edge Razor Blade to arrive at the portion size I am after.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

great, thank you so much for your help!


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

I agree with Phil, it does look like Navel Canker, and there may well be a secondary infection because the urates in the last photo have turned from white to yellow. So Metronidazole + Antibiotic is the way I would go.

She's very young! On a bird that age I've never exceeded 30mg/day as a loading dose, then 25mg/day. That can be given once a day or divided into two doses. She really needs to start taking it asap... and the parents, too, as that's a form of canker passed on from them.
For the antibiotic, I give squeakers Clavamox/Synulox, as it's gentler on their system. I haven't used Tetracyclin before, so can't advise there. Sulmet is for coccidia, isn't it, so I'd set it aside.

Hope she gets better soon!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

30 mG a-day for the Metronidazole is fine with me...it is pretty forgiving, and, if 30 a-day appears to be working well, then, so much the better.

I am likely a little Heavy Handed with it since some of the Canker strains I get in seem to need a heftier dose to remediate, so, out of habit, I usually just jump to the heavier dose right from the get go.


If you elect to go with the Tetracycline, with hold Grit or othe Calcium sources, and, be on watch for possible Candida or Yeast troubles evolving ( we should always be on watch for those anyway, but, the Tetracycline family tends to encourage them, so...)


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I am a little unsure about putting her on an antibiotic at such a young age.. Also, I don't know the proper dosing for a young bird and i don't know where to find Clavamox/Synulox.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Many Anti-Biotics are fine even for infants ( even though it is rare they would be called for )

Your Bird is way old enough to be fine with any of the usual ones which any Adult Bird would be fine with.


Some Anti-Biotics are less than ideal on situations where a very young Animal is still rapidly growing, because of Calium related issues, where the Drug will effect Bone building...but, your Bird is way past that stage of growth, so...no worries there.


I forget - what Antibiotics do you have to choose from?


Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

All I have is tetracycline at home right now.. 
An update, yesterday night while I was taking care of the growth it cracked open and I was able to clean out all of the yellow cheesey stuff in it. So now i'm just treating an open wound, not sure if I need to treat that differently? 
I'm going to get new pictures of the poop (not sure if it could be considered yellow or not)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

she needs to get on these meds asap.. esp with the open canker wound now.. you may want to soak her rather than apply things to it as you do not want to bother the canker sore more..but im sure there will be intructions shortly...


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I will start her on tetracycline then. For a young pigeon would the dosage be the same as an adult?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

h.mracers said:


> All I have is tetracycline at home right now..
> An update, yesterday night while I was taking care of the growth it cracked open and I was able to clean out all of the yellow cheesey stuff in it. So now i'm just treating an open wound, not sure if I need to treat that differently?
> I'm going to get new pictures of the poop (not sure if it could be considered yellow or not)



Some good close up images of what came out? And, of the condition now?


You would treat the open spot with the Solution described earlier - use a Q-Tip, gently daub it on...


Did you have a chance yet to prepare the Solution?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

h.mracers said:


> I will start her on tetracycline then. For a young pigeon would the dosage be the same as an adult?



Of the two, the Metronidazole is far more the more important one for this Bird.

Have you been administering the Metronidazole to the Pigeon?


What form is the Tetracycline in?

How old is it?

How has it been kept?


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Metronidazole has been started yesterday.
I have tetracycline 500mg capsules. They are about a week old.. For our other bird we opened up on capsule and put all the powder in a teaspoon of maple syrup. Gave it 0.03cc


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Okay...

Well, please review the instructions for preparing the DMSO/Metronidazole Solution ( to which one can also add an Antibiotic ) which would be gently daubbed on with a Q-Tip ( no rubbing, just dab or daub...)


This of course for the afflicted area where the inflamitory and presumably Canker debris had been, and, is possibly still infected even if having released the debris.


Karyn will have to advise yo on the Tetracycline - I can not access my Formulary presently.

But, put a day's dose or two into the Ounce of Solution for the Daubing.


Keep those daily poop images and effected site images coming!


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Already did the DMSO  i'll get pictures later today! Thank you


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

h.mracers said:


> Already did the DMSO  i'll get pictures later today! Thank you



Uhhhhh...I do not know what "Already did the DSMO" means.

Does it mean you already made the Solution as described, and, applied it as described?

Or, does it mean you applied straight 'DSMO' to the afflicted area?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

h.mracers said:


> Metronidazole has been started yesterday.
> I have tetracycline 500mg capsules. They are about a week old.. For our other bird we opened up on capsule and put all the powder in a teaspoon of maple syrup. Gave it 0.03cc


Since we don't have a weight, we'll take the dose down a bit to 0.20 (this is the second like on a 1cc syringe, 10mg) and give this every 12 hours. If you can get this little one weighed up, we can fine tune the dosing.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I made the DMSO solution and applied as described. 
Thanks Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

h.mracers said:


> I made the DMSO solution and applied as described.
> Thanks Karyn




Very good...

Please understand, I have to ask since so many times, the person has not understood, or, has misunderstood something, so, clear and definite updates and or replies which include enough details for us to see you have understood, are best!


Best wishes!

Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Phil, Here is a pic of recent droppings. I have not started tetracycline yet. Would it be smart to begin now or wait? She seems to be doing much better.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi h.mracers,



No images are present...try again?

But, do post some images showing the effected area as well as some of the Bird themselves, and, close ups of the fresh poops de jur.


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I'll get a pic of the area asap


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Looks like they are eating well, good appetite! Lol...

Are you using the famous "ACV Water' for their Drinking Water? ( say, four Tablespoons of ACV to a Gallon of Water, and f they turn teir Beak up at it, try 'three' ).

If not, I would say, definitely do so.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Yes, ACV water is their only drinking water. 
She does have a great appetite! 
What do you think about waiting on the tetracycline? She still isn't flying, not sure what's up with that..


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I do not have a good 'feel' on this one regarding whether we ought to insist on the use of an Antibiotic, or not.

But...if we were to use one, I would rather it were say, Clavamox or Amoxycillin or Cipro-Baytril-Enroflaxyn.


What is her diet?


'Not flying' is certainly an indicator that something is not quite right...but, hmmmm...the question then of course, is, what would that be?


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Where would I get any of those antibiotics at? 
She eats regular pigeon food.. Peas, corn, milo, wheat,ect. She has a good appetite. She always gets excited as soon as I ring the feed call. 

The flying does concern me, as does she isn't quite as active as my youngsters normally are, but then again she's still in isolation and there's not much room in there.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Jedds...Foys...Global...Seigals...


Poops look like they are eating a lot of Peas.


Let 'em out and see if they want to fly a little...see what they do, then, put them back of course, into their Cage.


How is the effected area looking ? ( Pics? )


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I'll get a pic of the area as soon as someone is home to hold her while I take pics. 
As for the poop, the rest of my birds droppings are not nearly as bright green. they are a lot darker.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yeahhh...might be she is not putting out as much Bile...so, this c-o-u-l-d maybe be a hint of some Liver compromise or Liver troubles, or, could be a side effect of the Metronidazole, or...

Where the poops a pale Green prior to her being on the Metronidazole?


I see pale Green poops here though among those who like to muscle in and eat all the Peas, so...it is far from anything you could sink your teeth into, but...worth noting, anyway.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

No it's only been that color since beginning Metronidazole. Maybe she just likes peas. Still waiting for someone to come home and help me with pictures.. Thanks!


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Sorry it took so long here are some pics.. She is flying a bit now! But still sits fluffed up as you can see. Also, the growth area is looking better but it's still yellow around the edges of it.. Still have not started antibiotic.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

P.s the oozing looking stuff on the growth area is just the medicine. 
Also, I accidentally cleaned her cage before taking pictures but her droppings are a normal green color now with healthy looking white part.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

It looks like her Leg is injured from the Band maybe having caught on something...should not be purple and thin looking like that on the Leg.

Anyway, I think you ought to get some Antibiotics for her.


Has there been any bleeding of the afflicted area?


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

I will check the leg out. I hate the bands the breeder I got her from puts on his birds, they don't seem big enough..
I will get her started on antibiotics today.
No bleeding, it seems to be healing well, I wish I could keep it cleaner though.

Update: I checked out her leg, both legs are the same size, the band hasn't effected her legs growth or anything. The band seems to have color leaking off it though, getting on to her feathers.. I'll ask my dad if there is anyway he can safely get it off the bird. 
I will be starting her on tetracycline using Karyns dosage instructions. What signs should I look out for, for candida?


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi everyone just an update.. The bird is doing better, not lethargic at all anymore,.. But the area of growth seems to be getting yellow cheesey parts again and growing. I admit I haven't been quite as vigorous with the DMSO solution as I should of been. I'm going to do as directed with the DMSO now and hope it clears up. I'll post a picture today.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Okay,


May as well use the Metronidazole both orally, for a week, and, use it as we had discussed in the DMSO augmented suspension for topical application to the effected area.

Saturate the effected area well both as to it's inside and perimeter...say, twice a day.


I forget now, but, are you good to send off for Meds? If so, send off for some 'Spartrix' ( a Canker med also ) and, add it to the Metronidazole/Water/DMSO-drops solution for the topical...and, for the oral, switch from the Metronidazole to the Spartrix.


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

okay here are updated pics..as you can see, it is healing very nicely, can barely see anything but a little scab! now a new concern.. on both sides of her nostrils are little things that look like pimples.. they are skin color, slightly yellowish.. i tried to take a picture but it's hard to see.. is it a concern?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

No images are present in your Post...


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## h.mracers (Jun 5, 2011)

It won't let me upload pictures..it says the size is too big even though I keep making it smaller and smaller..anyone else having this issue?


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## citycowgirl (Feb 16, 2011)

Allright, my screen name isn't working so i'm using my sisters. Again, growth area is looking great, concerned about with blackhead pimple like things under nostrils


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