# Vandenheede



## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

what's the word on Gaby Vandenabeele? Long, short, sprint?
price range? what are best mixed with?
Thank you


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## Hareloft (Jun 26, 2011)

ever one has differences in long ,short or sprint distances. My pure gabys are good out to 500 I mix with sions they are more in the 300 range.


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

Theres a cpl different great Europeans flying Gaby that are close with Gaby, that have furthered the strain as Hofken did with the jansenns.

from Gaby himself- his most famous bird prob , den wittenbuik, this bird is a foundation for a lot of other strains,( including the below Rik Cools birds and Evans/Marles) I have a grandson of wittenbuik that breeds outstanding 300 mile birds, very consistent, ive bred 14 this yr off the pair and still have all 14, the gaby cock is paired to hebbrecht hen. Medium sized birds great in hard weather.

Rik Cools- Cools was a protege of Gaby and has a bird named bliksem that is an all out beast!!! so his stuff has been very popular and direct children can be purchased from CBS. Cools is one of the most succesful proteges of Gaby. 

Prob the most well-known/popular now are the M&D Evans Vandenabeeles, The Evans are a loft based in England, and they have turned the racing world upside down including a, including a 2nd or 3rd place finish, cant remember in sun city 2009. They have two american partners John ?Marles, who flies unit 10 in Florida, or little belgium, and he crushed with the evans bloodlines, winning concourse bird of the year, and several wins. The cornerstone bird of the evans loft is a cock named Shadow, but they also breed out of several wittenbuik directs. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT, they buy back all of there winners and pay TOP TOP dollar for them. look on there website and look at there race results. http://www.myrtlelofts.com/index.php?PageID=105

My partner in Maine is sending me some evans GAby's to fly in the hot houston weather, so i can report on these later. 

in general Id say Wittenbuik family is pretty solid, i dont think you can go wrong, from a pedigree stance, anything from Evans/Marles blood is going to be stupid expensive cause the breeder is sold out for 3 yrs. So those birds are very hot right now as the sablons and albrechts are. 

and Rick Mardis at CBS bought some solid solid stock from the the rik cools auction this winter. including some bliksem directs

look on CBS for gaby priciing

hope this helps


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

Great information ya just check cbs they have a few.. some direct line, some kids...They look good


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> Theres a cpl different great Europeans flying Gaby that are close with Gaby, that have furthered the strain as Hofken did with the jansenns.
> 
> from Gaby himself- his most famous bird prob , den wittenbuik, this bird is a foundation for a lot of other strains,( including the below Rik Cools birds and Evans/Marles) I have a grandson of wittenbuik that breeds outstanding 300 mile birds, very consistent, ive bred 14 this yr off the pair and still have all 14, the gaby cock is paired to hebbrecht hen. Medium sized birds great in hard weather.
> 
> ...


Spot on info. I'm getting some babies this summer fairly close to the Shadow line (he's now infertile) from MD Evans. They will be down from Wittenbuik, Rolls Royce, Jester and Carrie, Logan, Benneton, Nationaal Fideel, Belle, etc. Can't wait to test them out. The MD Evans line of Gabys are selected and bred for the tough races. 

Also they are not as expensive as you might think. You can get babies from them for as little as $250 and their current top breeder, Eisenhower, is getting about $1600 per baby and they only just now sold out for this year. (I know 'cause I bought the last one hehe. I will be getting a full sibling of their 3rd place SCMDPR finisher out of Eisenhower x Joint Venture).

I hope to restructure my entire breeding plan around these birds that should be good at all distances in tough conditions.


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

the M/D stuff it top top top stuff. There record speaks from itself, the Wittenbuik family is just freaking awesome.the Evans have done wonders with the pigeons of Gaby. You get yours from Marles in Florida? My partner bought the perfect pair... that marles had, bird bred 4 birds and all of them were winners ( story is something like that). I know he paid a good amount for those birds. Im flying some this year, we will see how they do. EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH!! 

congrats on the Eisenhower baby, that was a tough race that year as well. Hope you got some headwinds for those birds to fly in LOL!! I 2nd the Gaby's doing well in tough weather, we race in the 90's and 100's with hard headwind here in Houston, and my gaby/hebrrect children just crush the 300's here. The thing i like most about them, is they dont get lost, its the only pair i have where the kids stick around.. all of them... no other pair in my loft has all 14 babies still in the loft.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> the M/D stuff it top top top stuff. There record speaks from itself, the Wittenbuik family is just freaking awesome.the Evans have done wonders with the pigeons of Gaby. You get yours from Marles in Florida? My partner bought the perfect pair... that marles had, bird bred 4 birds and all of them were winners ( story is something like that). I know he paid a good amount for those birds. Im flying some this year, we will see how they do. EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH!!
> 
> congrats on the Eisenhower baby, that was a tough race that year as well. Hope you got some headwinds for those birds to fly in LOL!! I 2nd the Gaby's doing well in tough weather, we race in the 90's and 100's with hard headwind here in Houston, and my gaby/hebrrect children just crush the 300's here. The thing i like most about them, is they dont get lost, its the only pair i have where the kids stick around.. all of them... no other pair in my loft has all 14 babies still in the loft.


Yeah I can't wait to see if all that holds up for me, too. That seems to be what everyone is saying about them and that's why I went that direction. Was it Dave Trunnell that bought the perfect pair from Marles? Seems like I saw an ad in the digest with the Perfect Cock in it. Son of Shadow, I believe, if that's the guy.

Our winds are all over the place here. You never know what you are going to get. But I think I'd rather have the kind of bird that can win in tough races than ones that can't. Plus, I'd like to send more birds out to OLR and futurities and boy those can be very tough, too. And obviously the Evans birds can handle OLR if they can place so highly in the mother of all OLR (Sun City).

I just went directly to Mark Evans to buy the Eisenhower baby. I just didn't see the need to go through Marles, although the bird will probably ship to him and then to me. Plus I had a hard time finding a way to contact him and then he didn't return emails. So I just went to the source.

For my other birds, I worked out a barter with a fellow who has directs of Shadow, Rolls Royce, Benneton, Nationaal Fideel, etc. With the value of the barter, I would have only been able to get one bird out of his son or daughter of Shadow, so I picked my pairs out of his others so I could get more birds that I hope I can "re" found my loft with haha. So it will be another year and a half before I know what I've got! Yikes that's a long time to wait, but from everything I can tell, the Evan's have such a strict breeding philosophy that they breed very prepotent birds that do well for a lot of people.


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

http://www.pigeons4sale.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=Aml&item=1337630265

http://www.pigeons4sale.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=Aml&item=1337616193

these are for auction not too bad on the wallet.. what do you guys think


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Not a huge risk there, but I'd like to see the ped from the other half of the pairing. It's hard to read through that description. I don't know why the seller would post the ped from only one parent - but it's pretty darn close to Wittenbuik so I'd say it's pretty low risk and high potential. Get 'em both and save on shipping


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ya I was thinking the same thing and for that price what a steal


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

Yes you are correct sir, Me and Dave are partners, Im sending him some of my super 55 stuff ( my own family of different crosses). He sent me some 410/clausing stuff. Im also testing about 30 or so of his young birds for him.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I tried looking at his website (Trunnell's) that was listed in his RPD ad but I couldn't get it to load 

Good luck and let me/us all know how they do for you this year. Like I said, it will be a while before I know much about what I'm getting, other than how they look and handle.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

There is a "buy it option". A chance to get before bid go higher. They are looks good and also the peds.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Just remember don't buy by strains, buy by race quality. The old stuff wins too (Fabry, Devriendt, Husken Van Riel, etc)


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

Id be a little wary of that auction, to be completely honest, IM not saying that a cock that was born in 1997 cant be fertil but it would be very rare. Seems also that if you were to be selling it you would spell wittenbuik correctly, and you would also be selling it on a more popular site and you would certainly be getting much more money breeding off an import of wittenbuik. Not saying that this isnt off that bird, but i be wary about a 14 yr cock filling eggs, 10-12 is pushing it, im sure it can be done but it all seems alittle fishy


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

Good point!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well most of these birds are getting $250 plus, and these are only $90 that old saying you get what you pay for.
Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

TheLaw818 said:


> what's the word on Gaby Vandenabeele? Long, short, sprint?
> price range? what are best mixed with?
> Thank you


Have you considered contacting the breeder and asking him ? I am sure that if you would get your hands on some very good specimens, that they would most likely cross well with exceptionally good pigeons. 

One thing I have picked up on, is that good fanciers with good birds in Europe, when visiting a loft to acquire something better to cross onto one of their birds, they don't seem to care or ask what "strain" it is, what they seem more interested in, is it a good racing pigeon ? I can pretty much guarantee you that when Gaby goes looking for good pigeons, he does not care what "strain" the owner might happen to call them. He is looking for race winners which can win tough races. 

If you want to research Gaby Vandenabeele's birds, here might be a place to start. http://www.pigeonsport.net/vandenabeele/index.htm

As far as price, I don't know what it would take for him to part with any of his race birds. As like anything else, I am sure there are fanciers in the US who are breeding and selling pigeons descended down from some of his birds. The further away from the actual champion, the cheaper the price.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> Id be a little wary of that auction, to be completely honest, IM not saying that a cock that was born in 1997 cant be fertil but it would be very rare. Seems also that if you were to be selling it you would spell wittenbuik correctly, and you would also be selling it on a more popular site and you would certainly be getting much more money breeding off an import of wittenbuik. Not saying that this isnt off that bird, but i be wary about a 14 yr cock filling eggs, 10-12 is pushing it, im sure it can be done but it all seems alittle fishy


Absolutely A dose of skepticism is in order when buying from an unknown seller. Very good advice. If you are really interested, like Warren says, call the breeder or email him and get his phone number. You'll feel a lot better about the purchase (or not) if you do.

BUT, I do have a 97 cock bird that is still filling every egg and has raised three rounds already this year with a young hen. He's vigorous and ruthless to his hen when he's driving her. So while it may be unlikely, it is possible.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Have you considered contacting the breeder and asking him ? I am sure that if you would get your hands on some very good specimens, that they would most likely cross well with exceptionally good pigeons.
> 
> One thing I have picked up on, is that good fanciers with good birds in Europe, when visiting a loft to acquire something better to cross onto one of their birds, they don't seem to care or ask what "strain" it is, what they seem more interested in, is it a good racing pigeon ? I can pretty much guarantee you that when Gaby goes looking for good pigeons, he does not care what "strain" the owner might happen to call them. *He is looking for race winners which can win tough races.*
> 
> ...


Warren, I know you like to jump in and pull people away from their "strain" chasing, but I think people may be using the word in different ways. The original poster was looking for "traits" which as we know many "families" or "strains" may possess. You predict (rightfully I imagine) that Gaby himself would be looking for race winners of *hard races* (a trait which may be bred into a tightly bred "family" or "strain".) 

I think that's why most of us are interested in families or strains is because they are bred for specific purposes like speed, distance, hard weather, etc. - not because we are blindly chasing a trend or a name that is currently "hot".

The fanciers in Europe who are looking for a bird to cross into their loft are likely, as you say, not asking for a strain by name. But I imagine they ARE looking for a bird who is either proven to, or likely to (based on genetic front-loading), fit their specific needs. In other words, the may not call it a "strain", but I think they are looking for the same needs. We just happen to like labels, probably because it's easy to understand and remember (or brag about?)


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

Well you are talking in semantics in a way. We talk in Strains because we can not go to Hilkerjamps house and buy a son of a famous bird. For me its a way to reference where the bird came from really, and how the bird is bred, you know this, as i know youve read breeman

I think we can both agree that certain fanciers can change the direction of a certain pigeon. IE: hofkens with Janssen, clausing with Houbens. They are simply selecting that bird for things that suit them more.

When i fly a clausing houben i know that his entire family "strain" is from a few good pigeons that he has line bred and inbred to create a potent family, and i know what to expect when i fly his bird. If Myself and clausing lived in Europe, id just go down the street and pick some birds up if i wanted a tough bird, I would tell my friends," this is one of those clausing houbens". 

I can assure you that european fanciers cross birds into there family for the qualities that the breeder is known for, IE Chris Hebbrecht/Jan Arrden ffor there distance.

Let take you for instance Warren,If I were to buy birds from you, I would look at your race records, yes, but you fly in a smaller combine, so I may say " well is he really flying against stiff comp. Is he long, Is he short, which was the wind blowing on your race winners. What i do know is that you are an extremely good breeder, based on your knowledge of breeding, your knowledge of genetics, you like to breed and focus time and energy on dominant pigeons and you have pedigrees that show that. Your knowledge of breeding and furthering YB development would prob a deciding factor if I were to buy birds form you. (this is all hypothetical i know you dont sell birds)


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

haha just posted this and saw your repsonse Kastle, basically said the same thing.... and yes warren does like to pee in peoples cheerios when they talk about strains


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kastle Loft said:


> Warren, I know you like to jump in and pull people away from their "strain" chasing, but I think people may be using the word in different ways. The original poster was looking for "traits" which as we know many "families" or "strains" may possess. You predict (rightfully I imagine) that Gaby himself would be looking for race winners of *hard races* (a trait which may be bred into a tightly bred "family" or "strain".)
> 
> I think that's why most of us are interested in families or strains is because they are bred for specific purposes like speed, distance, hard weather, etc. - not because we are blindly chasing a trend or a name that is currently "hot".
> 
> The fanciers in Europe who are looking for a bird to cross into their loft are likely, as you say, not asking for a strain by name. But I imagine they ARE looking for a bird who is either proven to, or likely to (based on genetic front-loading), fit their specific needs. In other words, the may not call it a "strain", but I think they are looking for the same needs. We just happen to like labels, probably because it's easy to understand and remember (or brag about?)


 I think I agree with everything you and Sunshine say. Not sure I articulated exactly what I was trying to communicate. Not even sure if I attempt to elaborate if it will make it better or worse. 

I agree the term "strain" means different things to different people. There in no universal meaning for a number of terms we fanciers use. Just a few terms which happen to be off the top of my head is "performance", "proven", "winners", "good", and perhaps countless others. 

Say we use the term "genetic line" from a particular fancier. The fancier in fact may have several unique and different lines based around a number of key foundation breeders within his colony. When these parts are dispersed say by an auction, to any number of different fanciers, over time changes begin to occur. Some of these lines which remain in strong hands could in theory just like fine wine, improve over some number of generations based on the selection by the fancier. Other lines may very well deteriorate due to poor selection. Then again perhaps these pigeons subjected to different environments and race courses will begin to change significantly from the others in part due to those conditions. 

At some point, as more fanciers have their hands in the soup, more often then not, what is advertised as "XYZ", may come with paperwork tracing back generations to the Mother Loft, but the birds themselves may be totally unrecognizable by the original Master Breeder, and perhaps judged to be vastly inferior and not worthy of carrying his name. The traits attributed to the original breeder's birds, may no longer be present in the genetic line due to adverse selection. Because as everyone should know, you can acquire a bird from a particular gene pool, but the Master Breeder/Selector does not come with the bird. 

If the actual bird which one selects to bring in as a cross, has actually demonstrated in the races that he has what you want to add to your colony, and there are siblings which have done well in the races, as well as parents and aunts and uncles, then one can be certain as one can be about such things, that the apple does not fall far from the tree. You can feel confident that you are indeed breeding from the winning line.

Of course the funny thing about the pigeon game, if you acquire or breed a Super which produces the golden eggs, in fairly short order you could become famous because of that one Super pigeon, which in time his name may fade into history while often the name of his fancier will live on.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> haha just posted this and saw your repsonse Kastle, basically said the same thing.... and yes warren does like to pee in peoples cheerios when they talk about strains


 "pee in people's cheerios". Not sure how appropriate it would be, but I like it. May I borrow it to respond to a few people I know????


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

hahaha no problem almond!! its a common phrase used to rib, jab, talk some smack down here in Houston.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

That's exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Not sure why this post is called Vandenheede and you are talking about Gaby V. Two different fanciers all together. Here is some info on Vandenheede. He is the guy from the pigeon movies. He wins the medium to long distance races. Would be a debate on who is the best flier. I would say Vandenheede. He is the "Freddy" in Sablon's accomplishments. http://www.pipa.be/en/node/5051


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