# A Problem Weaning...I Don't Know



## goulian (May 15, 2007)

Hello, Pigeon Folks,

My two young ferals are now 25 days old. I have seen both of them drink water from a bowl. I have seen both of the eat a few seeds. They have been pecking at seeds on the floor and in a dish for about a week now, but I don't think they have been eating very many of them. I tried the shot glass thing that Phil has described, but they refuse to eat from the glass. Their first drink of water, however, was from a shot glass as Phil had described. When I do feed them, they are squeaking and flapping as usual. The thing is that they do not seem to eat as much as they used to. They eagerly take two syringes full then, with the third, they stick their beaks in, then withdraw and shake to formular off the beaks. Once they have done that, they eat no more. Before, they would eat three or four syringes full. It feels like their crops are only about half full when they have finished eating. I was thinking that maybe they have had enough seeds to offset their appetite enough so they only eat a little formula. But when I feel their crops, I can't feel any seeds in there. 

This morning, while feeding my feral flock, I felt the crop of one of the birds after it ate two handsfull of grain. It felt just like the young birds crops. I could not feel any grain in the crop of the feral bird. So maybe it is just that I don't know how a crop with seeds in it feels.

They squeak whenever I walk towards them. They are adorable, but I don't have to tell you guys about that.

I don't really think there is a problem, but I am a bit worried that I might be under feeding them a bit during the weaning process. I just thought I would tell you guys about it and see if you think something is wrong.

The babies seem to be growing well. They are energetic and always flapping and stretching around. And they are always pecking at the seeds on the floor.

Take care, All and happy pigeoning.


Mike


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You'll be needing to post pictures of those two soon. 
I think you need to work with them a little longer...put them on your lap with a deep dish of seed and play with the seed with you fingers. Do this before you feed them the formula, when they are hungry. You'll probably make a mess with the seed but it will be worth it if they really start chowing down on their own.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Mine started refusing formula when they began eating seeds. They would get very excited when they saw the formula and eagerly stick their beak in and then pull it out and shake their heads and give me a dirty look like, _Hey, I wanted caviar._  They hit a certain stage (at about three weeks) where it is difficult to feel the seeds in the crop. Just keep an eye on their poop and keep working with them by "pecking" your finger in the seeds. Sounds like they are coming along just fine.


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## goulian (May 15, 2007)

Charis said:


> You'll be needing to post pictures of those two soon.
> I think you need to work with them a little longer...put them on your lap with a deep dish of seed and play with the seed with you fingers. Do this before you feed them the formula, when they are hungry. You'll probably make a mess with the seed but it will be worth it if they really start chowing down on their own.


Hi Charis,

I will do that when I get home this evening. The mess is not a problem, as all who raise pigeons know, that is part of the game. 

I have pictures of them at this link. The last photo is a couple of days ago, but new ones are expected soon. Take a look if interested.

Thanks for your response, Charis.

http://picasaweb.google.com/goulian01/MyPigeonExperiment


Talk to you later.




maryjane said:


> Mine started refusing formula when they began eating seeds. They would get very excited when they saw the formula and eagerly stick their beak in and then pull it out and shake their heads and give me a dirty look like, _Hey, I wanted caviar._  They hit a certain stage (at about three weeks) where it is difficult to feel the seeds in the crop. Just keep an eye on their poop and keep working with them by "pecking" your finger in the seeds. Sounds like they are coming along just fine.


Hi maryjane,

That is great to know. I was a bit worried as I have never had a baby pigeon that I had to feed formula to, so I had no gauge to know how it goes. My babies do exactly as you describe. Thier poops are perfect, as it goes. Small but mighty plentiful. 

Thanks for your response, maryjane


Mike


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If they were weaning around the parents and watching them eat, they would have learned quickly by example. Also, dad takes over the feeding process at 16 days of age and mom gets back to nesting, so the kids don't get full attention anymore. It is harder to wean a pet pigeon because they enjoy the handfeeding and we have a tendency to want to do for them and spoil them.

Also, if they are about full grown they will only need about a tablespoon of seed about 4 to 5 times a day. Their intake has become less because they no longer need a huge amount to grow on (for rapid cell division)-as well as to nourish, but now only need enough to nourish them.

Once you see them picking up and swallowing seeds as quickly as their feral relatives they will be weaned.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I've been following the threads about your pet pigeon project & am very impressed with your thorough follow-through in every aspect. You're obviously very patient and kind.

Just wanted to say that the babies are beautiful. Thank you for sharing the photos! Would love to see more as they grow up.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Mike, the babies are so cute. 

Are you weighing them every day? I found that to be so helpful when ours are being weaned - just to make sure they are continuing to gain weight. Poop production is also a good indicator that they are eating well.

I would continue to feed them at least one meal in the evening but let them go during the day to eat on their own. It sounds like they are beginning to wean themselves if they're not that interested in being fed by you.


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## goulian (May 15, 2007)

Hi All,

Well, the weaning problem persists. The birds eat a few pellets while in my lap, then totally disregard them. They squeak every time I go near the kitchen table (that is where I feed them formula). They get so excited when they see me preparing the formula, but only eat one syringe full then refuse to eat any more. When I put them back into their enclosure, the go to sleep, but wake up and squeak every time I make a move.

Yesterday, I decided not to feed them before I went to work. As I have seen them eat the pellets before, I thought they would get hungry enough to eat them during the day. Well, I was wrong. They went totally crazy when I got home and were flying circles around my head while I made their formula. They were really uncontrollable and even tried to jump into the glass holding the formula. I did let them put their heads into the glass, but they did not eat anything. They just looked confused. When the finally did eat, they took only a single syringe full and then went to sleep in their exclosure, as usual.

What am I doing wrong? These guys are over a month old and should be eating a lot more that they are. 

One thing I did learn is that they are much better fliers than I though they were.

Can anyone give me some ideas to get them weaned off the formula without starving them into it. Thanks.


Mike


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Have you been playing with the seed, with them in your lap watching?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Is there a reason you are feeding them pellets? I would stop giving them the formula and do seed pops. Open mouth, insert seed.........one at a time. They ARE pigeons and there's no reason why they shouldn't learn to eat grains. Especially at their age now. If they can eat one pellet, they can eat two and if they can eat two, they can eat three..........get my drift. Believe me, they are NOT going to starve to death if you don't feed them. 
They might get a little hungry, but they won't get to starvation. No healthy animal will willingly die of starvation. If they absolutely, positively WILL NOT eat unless you feed them, then there's more than just being spoiled going on.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Mike, I think you just have two stubborn little guys. Try not feeding them for a few days only at night but keep seed/grain available for them all the time. Some are simply harder to wean than others but they will catch on. I'm like you, I can't stand to think of them going hungry. If you can, weigh them each day just to make sure they're not losing weight.


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## goulian (May 15, 2007)

Charis said:


> Have you been playing with the seed, with them in your lap watching?


Hi, Charis,

Yes, I have been doing the finger pecking thing. They pay attention only long enough to eat a few pellets. Say, out of ten attempts, they successfully swallow five pellets. I have done this several times with the same results. They just seem to lose interest.






Lovebirds said:


> Is there a reason you are feeding them pellets? I would stop giving them the formula and do seed pops. Open mouth, insert seed.........one at a time. They ARE pigeons and there's no reason why they shouldn't learn to eat grains. Especially at their age now. If they can eat one pellet, they can eat two and if they can eat two, they can eat three..........get my drift. Believe me, they are NOT going to starve to death if you don't feed them.
> They might get a little hungry, but they won't get to starvation. No healthy animal will willingly die of starvation. If they absolutely, positively WILL NOT eat unless you feed them, then there's more than just being spoiled going on.



Hi, Lovebirds,


Initially, I used both seeds and pellets, but I have only seen them eat the pellets. I have read that pigeon pellets are fortified and have all the goodies a pigeon needs to be healthy. I also read that grit is not needed with the pellets because it is mixed into the pellets. However, when they start eating well, I am going to include grit for the mineral content. The seeds I used were small ones. No corn sized seeds. But today I put some of the grains I give the feral flock in with the pellets. If they prefer to eat those instead, I have no problem with it. I just wish they would eat a lot of anything. The constant squeeking for food makes me think I am starving them. I, too, do not think they will starve to death rather than eat on their own, but I do hate having to put them through that. But, something has to be done. I will try the "seed pop" thing this evening.





Lady Tarheel said:


> Mike, I think you just have two stubborn little guys. Try not feeding them for a few days only at night but keep seed/grain available for them all the time. Some are simply harder to wean than others but they will catch on. I'm like you, I can't stand to think of them going hungry. If you can, weigh them each day just to make sure they're not losing weight.



Hi, Lady Tarheel,

I sure hope you are right. The sooner they start regularly on seeds, the better off they, and I, will be. I don't have a scale to weigh them on yet, but I don't see how they can be maintaining the proper weight on the amount of food they have been eating. They don't look or feel underweight, and the seem to be strong. They fly very well. And their squeaking is surely loud and healthy sounding. I will try your suggestion. I just wanted some reassurance that they won't starve to death while I am trying to wean them.


Thank you for your responses. I hope all goes well. These guys are the cutest things. I want them to be happy and eating well, too.


Take care, All, and happy pigeoning.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It took a long time with my Romey. Just when I thought I was going to loose my mind, she stated eating on her own. She had a hatch date of 10/26. By 1/10 she finally was eating on her own. Others have picked it up at a little over 3 weeks...they're all different. Treesa is right, without the help of their dad, some of them take longer to catch on.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Wow now that is spoiled.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

philodice said:


> Wow now that is spoiled.


Still is! She is a lovely individual.


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## goulian (May 15, 2007)

Hi Guys and Gals,

It looks like the weaning problem may be coming to an end. When I arrived home yesterday after work, I was not greeted with loud squeaking or flapping of wings. The two birds just sat there and watched me. Then, while I was preparing their formula, they did not commence to squeaking and carrying on as they normally do. They just sat there and watched me. When I was ready to feed them, I lifted the top of the enclosure and they both took off and landed on the feeding table. Now they began to squeak and wing flap. Before I actually fed them, I checked their crops and, low and behold, they were not empty. They were not full, but there was definately something in there. After they each had a syringful of formula, they returned to the enclosure and, before taking a nap, they took a few minutes to eat from the feeding dish. 

It looks like they have crossed a difficult weaning process and and now ready to take their rightful places as grain eating pigeons. Of course, I will still give them some formula before bed time for a few more days...just as a reminder of the good life.

Thanks for all your help in solving this problem. Fortunately, I was spared having to open their beaks and pop grain in there. That just seems so undignified. I was prepared to do it, but am glad I won't be having to.

Take care, All, and happy pigeoning.


Mike


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## Tilly (Feb 16, 2008)

........


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ahhhh .. I know the feeling well, Mike .. it's like a huge weight has been lifted from your shoulders when you can feel seeds in the crop that they actually put there themselves! Great news!

Please keep us posted and send some new pics when you can!

Terry


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