# Can You Get Pmv-1 Vaccine Locally?



## YAJ-Loft (Nov 18, 2005)

*I was just wondering if you can get PMV1 Vaccine local. I have tried pet stores, but no possible out come. I also try a local farm supplier, nothing. (Just a bunch of Tylan product, but no PMV1) Any tips, greatly appreciated!!!*


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I have never seen it in feed stores or anything like that; only from pigeon supply houses. They ship it 2nd day air because it has to stay cold, so it does get there fast.


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## YAJ-Loft (Nov 18, 2005)

*thanks, I'l just do that. *
_" Thansk for the Help!!"_


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Jedds*

Has a good deal going. 50 doses for $18.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi upcd, 


Do you know...would these innoculations then be adminstered in an injection?

That is, in order to give the Pigeon the vaccine, would one inject it say into their breast muscle, or...?

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Do you have a local pigeon racing club in your area?

Sometimes they will help out if you only have a few birds. Our racing club will share their innoculations when they have left overs, When I had just a few birds, they would do mine on the day they innoculated their birds.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Phil,

You usually inject them "SC" or "Sub-Q" or subcutaneous for inoculations/vaccinations. The easiest way for me is to cradle the bird feet-back in my lap with the right hand pushing down on its back while I pull the feathers at the base of the topside of the neck upward to try and expose actual skin. Then, you can pinch (not too tightly) a fold of skin (and feathers, of course) and roll it between your fingers until you get an exposed patch of skin. 

You're supposed to inject caudally (needle pointing to the back end of the bird) so as to prevent a few things, 1) sticking the bird in the neck vertebrae and killing/paralysing it) and 2) getting the inoculant into the heavily venous region of the neck proper.

You can't pinch enough loose skin on the back so that part of the neck that's the furthest down that still has loose skin is the ticket. They always give me 3 cc syringes and pretty heavy needles with the serum but I use 1 cc syringes and allergy needles (I'm sure there's a "gauge" but I don't know what they are--they're very small, though) because they're easier to stick in and the smaller syringe is easier to get accurate with. 

The dose is usually 0.5 ml (1/2 cc) per bird or 0.25 ml (1/4 cc) for smaller breeds (at least for PMV vaccine). You keep the stuff in the fridge and warm it to room temperature to give it. Shake well before each dose. And you're supposed to throw away whatever's left when you're finished with your loft so you're not supposed to dose a bird here and a bird there over six months' time with one bottle. If you've only got three birds to do, it would be a lot better to get with the local racers and sync up with them because the bottles usually come in 25 or 50 ml packages.

Pidgey


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Check this...

PMV Vaccine:
http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=70&SubCategoryID=593&ProductID=2521

Paratyphoid Vaccine:
http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=70&SubCategoryID=594&ProductID=2520

Needles:
http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=70&SubCategoryID=595&ProductID=2526

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=70&SubCategoryID=595&ProductID=2527

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=70&SubCategoryID=595&ProductID=2528


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi upcd,
> 
> 
> Do you know...would these innoculations then be adminstered in an injection?
> ...


Most pigeon supply houses (Jedds, Global, etc) send syringes and needles with the vaccine.

It is injected either into the loose skin on the back of the neck - or some people like to inject it into the thigh of the bird. We inject in the neck area (behind the head, between the shoulders, as already mentioned)

Some say that the neck injections increase the chance of causing injury or death to the birds - if you inject it too deep. We've probably vaccinated, oh, well over 1000 times. Only time we had trouble was when someone else helped us vaccinate - and he must have hit a vein or something - two of the birds bled afterwards (they shouldn't) - and both of them died later that day.  Hubby and I vaccinate our birds ourselves now - and are very careful how we hold the bird, and the 'angle' of the needle. I hold the bird and it's head, hubby pinches the skin up and injects.

We buy vaccine 3-4 bottles at a time, and keep in in the refrigerator. (they have a fairly long 'shelf life' - the expiry date is usually 3-4 years off... ). Since we vaccinate the YB's as they are weaned (10-15 at a time), we simply 'draw off' enough vaccine (we have a 22 dose "gun"), let it warm up in the gun - then vaccinate. Keeping the vaccine cold before use - but warming it to room temp before vaccinating - is *VERY* important!

As already stated - .5 ml dose for pigeons (YB and OB) -- .25 for smaller birds - such as ringneck doves (we vaccinate ours too).


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Pidgey said:


> Phil,
> 
> You usually inject them "SC" or "Sub-Q" or subcutaneous for inoculations/vaccinations. The easiest way for me is to cradle the bird feet-back in my lap with the right hand pushing down on its back while I pull the feathers at the base of the topside of the neck upward to try and expose actual skin. Then, you can pinch (not too tightly) a fold of skin (and feathers, of course) and roll it between your fingers until you get an exposed patch of skin.
> 
> ...



Pidgey... and to some of the other way more experienced folks out there... stupid quesiton... what happens if you accidently inject yourself???  Are you just safe from PMV too... ...or do you have to worry about something???


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know. Always worried and wondered, so I have been careful not to! Actually, it's true that we can "get" the virus for a very short time and even experience some symptoms although it's usually a "subclinical" (not noticeable) presentation. I've no idea whether we would shed a form of the virus that would still be able to affect birds. It's inconsequential in any case as we don't poop in THEIR nests (pity it doesn't work the other way around!).

The biggest concern of inoculating your birds is the possibility of sticking yourself after having already used a needle in a bird that had a bloodborne disease of some consequence. That's the only real worry and it's big enough that it pays to take some real care in working with the "sharps". It's worse for those of us who routinely rehab feral pigeons with unknown health concerns, especially when maintaining an aviary with unreleasables.

Pidgey


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

You cannot 'get' the disease from the PMV vaccine -- the birds don't 'get' it either - it is a killed vaccine - so they simply develop antibodies to the disease, without actually having the disease (as opposed to Pox vaccine - which is a 'live' virus vaccine - and does in fact give the birds a small case of Pox).

Injecting the vaccine into yourself can be very harmful - I read somewhere that it can result in permanent damage/paralysis of the area injected.

Hubby accidentally stabbed my finger with the needle one time - didn't 'inject' it - more of a scratch when he moved the gun while I was holding the bird. Barely scratched the skin - but it hurt for days afterwards! I'd hate to think what an actual accidental 'injection' would feel like!


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Actually, it's true that we can "get" the virus for a very short time and even experience some symptoms although it's usually a "subclinical" (not noticeable) presentation. I've no idea whether we would shed a form of the virus that would still be able to affect birds.
> Pidgey



Interesting - I've never heard this before. How can you tell if you have a disease, if the 'symptoms' are not noticeable? What symptoms would humans get, since the most easily and common symptom in birds is the twisted neck and neurological problems?

Do you have any studies showing that humans have had PMV?


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Shooting Birds*

In a healthy way.LOL Rena had me hold the pigeon. I pressed its body against mine with one hand and held its head with miy other hand. Rena grabbed a pinch of skin, behind the birds head, on its neck. Then I thought she would inject towards the head like they do a dog or cat. But No, she inject towards the pigeon's body. This avoids injury. Well now that was interesting. And we need to do it 200 xs. Between Her birds and mine. I am in shock. And then the paper work. Medical records x 200= Hard work.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

WhiteWingsCa,

There's a difference between the disease and the pathogen. Yes, we can get the virus in us and it will replicate in some of our cells and shed but not to the detriment that it does or can do to a pigeon and other birds.

Here's a link to a webpage that mentions that humans can get it:

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/dvms/newcastle.html

And on this one (which is rather clinical) it mentions that humans may develop a severe conjunctivitis from it (use the FIND ON THIS PAGE function of your browser and stick "human" in it):

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/PMV-RH&H-WWW.htm

Of course, that specific reference was talking about Newcastle Disease which is a variant. Fortunately for us, it doesn't invade, infect or inflame the parts necessary to cause the stargazing and torticollis that it does with birds. I don't think the virus sticks around very long it us--must be that our immune systems are better equipped to kill it or our environment just isn't quite right for it.

This one references a study where, apparently, infected human-to-bird transmission must have been documented:

http://pathport.vbi.vt.edu/pathinfo/pathogens/NCDV.html

But not to worry overmuch about it, it seems to be pretty rare and primarily limited to lab workers and vaccination teams that are heavily exposed:

http://www.nda.agric.za/vetweb/Animal Disease/AD_Definitions.htm

Pidgey


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Thanks Pidgey, that was some informative reading! 

Just another reason to make sure your birds are vaccinated/protected from PMV! Thankfully, it only manifests as conjuctivitis (aka pinkeye) in humans - the twisted neck would be absolutely awful! (not to mention, would probably result in the demise of every pigeon in the world, if it got around that such a horrible disease was possibly spread from bird to human!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Do birds need an annual booster or is the vaccine given only once in a lifetime?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For PMV-1? It actually covers them for about 10 months for real although most vaccinate on a yearly basis. For Paratyphoid, it's on a six-month basis.

I think.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TerriB said:


> Do birds need an annual booster or is the vaccine given only once in a lifetime?


PMV annually, Paratyphoid every 6 months and the Pox brush-on vaccine is lifetime.


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Please remember too - vaccinate ALL your birds, not just the ones that are out flying....

PMV can be spread on your clothing - if you handle a bird with it - and go to another section and handle birds, or even feed/water, you could expose the other birds to the disease. Walking from a loft with a sick bird into another loft will spread it on your boots/shoes.

We vaccinate all our prisoner breeders, and our Ringnecks (who obviously never go out), to be on the safe side. "Been there, done that" once with PMV in the loft - thank goodness we vaccinated all the older birds - or else we would have had some pretty empty lofts... lost over 1/2 of our YB's that year....


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks, good to know!


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Do all of you that vaccinate do so in "teams"... one holds the bird, the other works the syringe? Or are there some of y'all that are skilled enough to do it solo? Like people, do y'all use a fresh needle for each bird??

Could someone out there post an mpg of them vaccinating a bird so those of us that have never seen it... e.g. ME!... see how its done?


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*shots*

I was told to fill a 3cc injection and spray the birds neck with alcohol and shoot 1/4 to 1/2 depending on size of bird. I would wipe needle with alcohol cottnball between birds. It would be nice if you could have enought needles. Does anyone change needles for each bird?


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

We use a 22 dose "gun", which can be bought from just about any pigeon supply store that sells vaccines.

We don't change needles from bird to bird - vaccinate all the birds, wash the gun out with hot soapy water, rinse well, and let it dry well before storing for the next time. We do use a 'new' needle each cycle.

I've seen some instructions that say to use alcohol before vaccinating - and some that don't. We don't - and I don't know of anyone who does. Our pigeon club used to have 'teams' of vaccinators -- two or three people who would visit each member's loft, and help get all the birds vaccinated before each race season -they'd vaccinate probably close to 500 birds in one day - never using alcohol. For that matter, I'm not even sure they even changed the needle. We vaccinate our own birds now....


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

We use a new syringe and needle for each pigeon and I spray their necks with alcohol before injecting, not just to prevent infection but because it makes it much easier to see what I'm doing. It does take a long time to draw up the vaccine using separate syringes and needles for each pigeon, but I feel it's worth it to be sure I'm not transmitting anything between birds. If you read the instructions on the needles and syringes, they are intended for single use. Needles can dull with even a few uses. 

We operate as a team. My hubby or one of my sons holds the pigeons while I vaccinate. I work with a checklist and check each one off once it's vaccinated.


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## sarfaraz_khan_india (Mar 9, 2011)

*Vaccination or Prevention-Decide yourself?*



WhiteWingsCa said:


> Please remember too - vaccinate ALL your birds, not just the ones that are out flying....
> 
> PMV can be spread on your clothing - if you handle a bird with it - and go to another section and handle birds, or even feed/water, you could expose the other birds to the disease. Walking from a loft with a sick bird into another loft will spread it on your boots/shoes.
> 
> We vaccinate all our prisoner breeders, and our Ringnecks (who obviously never go out), to be on the safe side. "Been there, done that" once with PMV in the loft - thank goodness we vaccinated all the older birds - or else we would have had some pretty empty lofts... lost over 1/2 of our YB's that year....


Hi WhiteWingsCA,
I appreciate your knowledge regarding pigeons and its treatment. But, my experience says that if the pigeons are prevented from contact with rain water and moisture PMV can be avoided to a large extent. Also, please ensure that your loft is always dry without any mositure. VIRUS NEEDS WATER TO SURVIVE. So, no water/moisture, no virus in your lofts. It is to be noted that swine flu virus that is killing a lot of human beings all over the world is also spread through rain water during monsoon season. 

I always believe that *prevention is better than cure*. Instead of administering PMV and Paratyphoid vaccines to the pigeons my sincere advice is to give them good quality feed, multivitamins, grit mixture and a cod-liver capsule(weekly once for 8 weeks only, once the chicks start feeding themsleves). This will help them develop immunity against most of the diseases. Hope this helps you and all others in this forum to prevent further bird losses in future.


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