# Baby Dove..help



## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

I was doing yard work the other day and had to pull down a fallen branch. In the process of cleaning I found a baby dove. I watched for a bit and did not see any parrents comming back to take care of him. I have had him in a box for 2 days day. very active and he has been eating. I read and got a formula for him. Now on day 2 he is pooping yellow with a little dark in it, Not a well formed poop. Kind of runny. I need some help. Any ideas?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Response to PM*



TheFormOfaDove said:


> I have it in bird emergencies. But, day 1 he was doing very well. very active and poops where solid with just a touch of yellow liquid., now its very yellow and liquid. i have fed him very very tiny bits of a rib eye steak the first day, and i got a recipie for mashed up bread with a touch of this and that in it. he still is active but not as much. I just dont want to do anything wrong.


Ok, post this also in bird emergencies; I might get called away in a minute, and it s good if everyone knows what is going on. I haven't done a baby bird rescue for two years, and especially not of a dove (if it is a dove as opposed to a bit larger pigeon). 

How old is it? Someone on PT might help you locate baby dove photos for comparison.
What does it weigh?
Golden baby hairs vsible?
Where do you live? 
(I am in Germany, so help with brand names will be different than from US brands)
Keep baby WARM. 

Larry


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

*Baby dove help*

Ok the lil guy is about the weight of a golf ball. He/she has pin feathers and is a mourning dove. I am guessing as the shafts that wrap the new feathers ( wings and tail included) are starting to break open and showing the typical coloring of a Mourning dove. I am taking a guess at the type of bird but from pictures i have seen that is what this lil guy is. I can snap a pic with the web cam but it looks just like Larys Avitar photo. Best guess as to age is 2 weeks?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello TheFormOfaDove, again,

When I ask, where do you live, I mean just in general, as in what town or what city or what state, not street address or such. 

There may be an "expert" living across the street or across town, for all we know. It has happened! (Fortunately).

Things happen with baby birds quickly, so time is of the essence. It is hard to do things right for them, so don't be shy about asking for info from whoever is passing by (on the street, or on PT). 

I don't know much about the effect of rib-eye steak on a baby dove. Before I found PT (Pigeon Talk) on what is now pigeon-life.net, I had rescued two baby pigeons in a flower pot set out on the street, Aprl 2004. 

Didn't know what kind of birds. Thought maybe baby crows. Figured they were pigeons after a day or so.

Kept them wam on a heating pad on low setting, with a wash cloth between the pad and birds. Checked frequently with my hand for temp control (some heating pads have hot spots). 

Fed them seeds, hardboiled eggyolk. Someone suggested baby cat food. Did feed them a bit of sardines, in case they were insect eaters, or omniverous. 

Web-link on PT led me to photos of baby pigeons so I could determine how many days old.

Had to estimate weight.

Check out related threads in "I found a baby bird." Reading is quicker than waiting for typing.
Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Pics of baby mourning dove*

I googled images for baby mourning dove. 

(Google Images) link for pasting: 
http://images.google.com/images?svn...ow=1&q=baby+mourning+doves&btnG=Search+Images

Larry

P.S. My avatar photo is of maybe month-old (?) *Pidgiepoo* (red ash color street pigeon, or rock dove) sitting in my hat.


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

*oops*

Im sorry, Im In Arizona, Phoenix to be exact. Temp is good for him around 84 all day long.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Anywhere near Mesa? I've PMed a member there. Formula for his age should be mixed a little towards the thick side--say one part formula powder to one-and-a-half parts water. How much are you getting down him per day?

Pidgey


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

*photo*

http://people.tribe.net/01c6f0bf-653c-4401-bbf4-4ce244e5f058/photos

http://people.tribe.net/01c6f0bf-65...8/photos/263de172-6e19-4474-a20c-a18f5ee798b0

Here are two shots of the lil bugger.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Help in Phoenix*

In Phoenix.

Searched forums for "Phoenix."

Also, TAWhatly on May 3, 2007, posted:


> Where in Arizona? If you are in the metro Phoenix area, there are a couple of very good rehab groups there.


OT (off topic): I have a niece in Phoenix, but she's not experienced in pigeons or doves that I know. Knows a lot about environmental hazardous chemical spill clean-up. Got her Master's degree from Texas A&M, top of class, a few years ago. Housewife and motther at moment. 

Larry


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Anywhere near Mesa? I've PMed a member there. Formula for his age should be mixed a little towards the thick side--say one part formula powder to one-and-a-half parts water. How much are you getting down him per day?
> 
> Pidgey


I am feeding him 3 times a day about one full eyedropper full every feeding. The mix is this. 1 strawberrie, 1 piece of wheat bread, 1 teaspoon non fat yogurt, a 1/2 drop vitamin E 400IU, a half teaspoon of ensure 2 teaspoons water. The mix has the consistencie of runny oatmeal. 

I am about 45-55mins from mesa.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Baby dove the weight of a golf ball*

Okay,

I googled and the weight of a golf ball must not exceed 1.6 ounces, or 0.0459 kg, 

say about 50 grams.

This is your subjective estimate by holding him, I suppose.

Larry


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Okay,
> 
> I googled and the weight of a golf ball must not exceed 1.6 ounces, or 0.0459 kg,
> 
> ...


Yes, holding him. he is also just abit larger then a golf ball.


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Larry_Cologne said:


> In Phoenix.
> 
> Searched forums for "Phoenix."
> 
> ...



Sun City Arizona 85351


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*small bird re-habber in phoenix*

More info:

http://www.eastvalleywildlife.org/smallbirds.htm

in phoenix az 

Also, I think a bird that small needs to eat much more frequently than 3 times a day. 

I hand-raised our pigeon Pidgiepoo (originally called Vanilla Dove) to a healthy adult male.

Rescued Chocolate and Vanilla April 30, 2004.

Estimated age at rescue from 5 to ten days old. 

Nest-mate Chocolate died after 13 days with us. Perhaps from sour crop, don't know. (Always kept his crop bulging-full. It needs to empty some between feedings, *but empty to what extent, I don't know*). 

Chocolate at death about 45-50 grams estimate, size of smallish chicken egg. Vanilla at same time about 80 grams. 

Chocolate died Thursday, May 30th, 2004 at 6:45 P.M. Hadn't been eating the day before. Except for not eating, seemed healthy four hours prior to death when I went to internet cafe to do research on him.

I have used a cut-off finger of a rubber or latex dishwashers glove. Baby sticks his beak into "parent's mouth" and eats. Others on PT have used a *baby bottle nipple*, and highly recommend it. Babies flap wings, get excited, and eat on their own, so to speak. I fed them whenever they would eat, and they slept throughout the night. 

Had a medium-sized pot (large enough to hold heat for the time needed for feeding before cooling off) of very hot water, submerged or dipped the rubber glove finger (held shut with a hemostat, or locking surgical scissors-like tweezers), and tested formula on inner wrist just as you would a baby bottle formula dripping onto to wrist, for temp control. 

Getting late here, need to call it a day.

Good luck.

Larry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> I was doing yard work the other day and had to pull down a fallen branch. In the process of cleaning I found a baby dove. I watched for a bit and did not see any parrents comming back to take care of him. I have had him in a box for 2 days day. very active and he has been eating. I read and got a formula for him. *Now on day 2 he is pooping yellow *with a little dark in it, Not a well formed poop. Kind of runny. I need some help. Any ideas?


Welcome to Pigeon-Talk.

Thanks for taking in this little one.
I live in Mesa, Dobson Ranch area. 

You mentioned the poops have some 'yellow' in them. Could you check the inside of it's mouth? It should be clear & pink. If there appears to be any type of obstruction, please let us know.

As for the diet, I would suggest purchasing some Kaytee Exact Baby Bird Formula. PetCo, PetsMart, etc should carry it.

I would also suggest giving East Valley Wildlife a call (480) 899-1513. Nancy is in Chandler, but she may know of someone closer to you, in the Phoenix area.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

The inside of his mouth is and has been very dark. no obstructions. Today at 1:30 pm he ate about a 1/2 cc of eggyoke. hard boiled. he is a pain to feed as it is almost like a wresteling match, i dont try and force open his mouth, i hold him in my hand and he pokes his beak between my index and middle finger at the webbing,and then and only then will he open his beak. then i add a few drops of food and let him gobble it down. I then sit and wait and start the process over again. i usualy get about 1 cc into him every few hrs. his last poop was a bit stiffer. this was the first feeding of egg. he will be getting another in about 30 mins. I have tried the rubber glove method, but he has no idea where to get the food from. I feel i am learnign more from him then he is from me. when he eats i feed the birds out side and sit in the lawn with the pigeons so that he gets a clue as this is where to go for food. i let him sit there with the other birds for a bit but keep a watchfull eye so that he wont get hurt.

Also AZwhitefeather, that number is not good.


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

3rd feeding today, 1 full cc of egg yoke. took it like he was starved. poop is a bit more soild as i change the bedding ( tissues ) after every feeding. still active, and we learned something today. if you put a baby bird up to your face you stand a very good chance of getting a nostril full of beak. 
Couldnt help it tho, so damnd cute!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Welcome to the forum and many thanks for rescuing this little dove. He is very young.

I'm not sure what to tell you about the diet you have him on - have never fed any of the doves/pigeons any of the foods you listed except the yogurt. We use Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula mixed with some plain yogurt. If you can't get this, try soaking small pellets of a good quality cat food (like Purina Cat Chow) or Science Diet Adult Bites, until the pellets are soft but not mushy. Break into small pieces and open his beak and pop them in past his air hole. He will not need any water if you feed him either the Kaytee Exact or soaked pellets.

And, yes, I have had a bird beak up my nose  - doves in particular are very loving at the age of your's. Keep a close eye on him. Doves love to scramble around when they're that young and can easily topple off a counter.

Enjoy him - they grow very fast.


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

He is NEVER outside the grasp of me. unless he is in his box and that is set up high on a shelf with NO WAY out for him, and mor importantly no way in for the cat. I will try the cat food and once out tomorrow I will be getting the proper mix of baby bird food. 

I have found that i have broken a few rules, I do fear that he will become a "pet" and that I am torn on. He is a little treasure and a blessing. strange story on what happend leading up to him hopping in my hand.

I will post that in the right form.

Thanks guys. and I will be posting as I raise him/her.


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

what are the ammounts I should be feeding this lil guy? i am getting 1 ml at each feeding. is that too much? not enough? I am worried about this.

He/she is very active and the poop is stiffening up. i can see little more feathers from the casings!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Warning!*

I *can't recommend* the cat food, sardines, egg yolk or any of that stuff. I was merely saying what I had heard, and what I had done, and what the results were. I guess listing that stuff can be dangerous, maybe reckless of me. 

I can't say those things are bad. *Just that I don't know.* Just that when we are ignorant or desperate (no reflection on you in any way whatsoever, just on myself specifically and all of us in a vague, general sort of way), many things may seem to make sense which later prove to be harmless and maybe not so wise, but not to be recommended. 

If he starts meow-ing, you know you're in trouble.

I've known people to do surgery on themselves, but generally it isn't recommended in ordinary circumstances.

Maybe I'm wasn't clear enough. 

I have rescued only three pigeon chicks. 

The first two, Chocolate and Vanilla (Pidgiepoo), were handed, as it were, to me in good health. One survived only thirteen days; the other one survived partly because of me, but possibly in spite of me. Perhaps a narrow escape.

Fifty percent casualties, out of only two.

The third, Wieteke, was much larger and older, and therefore better able to withstand my ministrations. He had a bigger buffer between me and his wish to survive, and he held out. 

So, not much experience with baby doves, or smaller counterparts to pigeons. Common pigeons are technically doves, being rock doves, but before joining PT, I used the common word usage and distinction which held that doves are smaller, pigeons are larger, for purposes of common, non-scientific discussion. 

I spent a lot of time feeding Pidgiepoo and Chocolate and Wieteke and a few others thrown in, but don't have the accummulated experience of many others here. I think I have a basic grasp of which end the stuff goes in, and which end it comes out, and what are the wings (they're the parts without toes or beaks), and am working on the rest. 

Fed a baby sparrow, but he didn't make it. 

We don't have Kaytee Exact in Germany, but have some corresponding, similar products. One is called (in German) baby chick egg-food starter. Has egg in it.

Along with the advice to use baby catfood from a can, came the opinion (not from the same person) that maybe the baby birds were crows (my thought), or blackbirds, or magpies, or *ducks* _(before their feet become webbed?)_. 

Expert advice often isn't.

Larry


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

LMAO Larry!! The bird meowing....  I thought of the irony in feeding a bird cat food.... Fear not my friend from across the pond, this feeding baby birds is ( to use an american expression) for the birds. And I beilieave that a little common sence goes a long way seing that sardines are few and far between in the desert i opted not to feed the lil guy that, ( but did eat them my self, man i could go for an anchovie pizza, but i digress) anyway, day two and he is ( in spite of me) doing well. 
And in doing well it is because of the advice I have been given and read here.

Danke mein Freund
Sie sind ein guter Mann


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Welcome to the forum and many thanks for rescuing this little dove. He is very young.
> 
> I'm not sure what to tell you about the diet you have him on - have never fed any of the doves/pigeons any of the foods you listed except the yogurt. We use Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula mixed with some plain yogurt. If you can't get this, try soaking small pellets of a good quality cat food (like Purina Cat Chow) or Science Diet Adult Bites, until the pellets are soft but not mushy. Break into small pieces and open his beak and pop them in past his air hole. He will not need any water if you feed him either the Kaytee Exact or soaked pellets.
> 
> ...



Thank you Maggie, 
I Did give the lil guy a few soaked pellets at the last feeding, he seemd to enjoy them, tho I think If a spare tire would fit, he would try an swallow that as well. Day 2 and so far so good.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They usually eat between 10 and 15 % of their weight per meal at that age. You can transpose weight in grams to cc's of formula.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi FormOfaDove, 



'Yellow' Urates, in the Southern Mojave anyway, should be taken as a sign of Canker...and Canker is fairly common in this region for Doves and Pigeons and other Birds to have. This illness typically proves fatal, esspecially to youngsters, and youngsters typically acquire it from the stresses of privation when inadvertantly seperated from theor parents...even if your youngster is still in a phase of vivacity and appearent energy and appetite.


If you or anyone you know happens to be headed to Las Vegas, I'd be happy to take him and see him through till release. I have raised and released a great many Baby Doves of all ages.


Otherwise, if you can get with anyone experienced in your area, you best do so fast.


If you are safely getting the ( I hope, narrow-enough not to strain his Throat, of ) Eye-Dropper far enough into their Throat for being well passed heir Breathing hole or Trachea, then you can feed them a great deal more than you mentioned...possibly you could improvise something to take the place of the tiny squeeze-bulb, maybe fitting the Eye Dropper to a plastic Syringe or something, to allow more food per-serving.

Food can be Pigeon Seeds fresh ground into powder in a Kitchen Blender, or of any variety of the kinds of Seeds appropriate for Doves, as well as small whole Seeds, K-T or similar, or plain 'Malto Meal' even, with other supplimental ingredients added, and the Baby will gladly eat from the hollow side of a 'Nipple' as Larry was mentioning, but this takes some finesse in various ways which almost always are too tedious to explain, or too tedious for the reader to endure.


Doves are 'Vegan', so please, no more 'hard boiled egg yolk' or any other 'meat' related things...

Likely he is very hungry presently, so putting an eye Dropper into his Throat will not be a measure of how well the food so dispensed is appropriate for him, simply because he does not immediately throw it up or refuse it..!


Lol...


Anyway, 'Strawberrys' are best avoided for any Baby Bird, unless you grew the Strawberrys yourself, since they now come almost exclusively from third-world workers or countrys and various e-coli strains and other communicable diseases from human fecal matter are typically a real and present danger, and these could sicken or kill the Bird Baby. 

Strawberrys, unless the truely Wild and 'tiny' kind which contain far less acidifying sugars, are probably not very good for Doves anyway, or, would not be nearly as good as other small Fruits/Berrys.


Essentially, Doves eat smallish wholesome Seeds and some fresh Greens and some various kinds of small Fruiting Bodys or Berrys of plants...and by the age of yours, this is what his parents would be feeding him.

I know you are harried and a little scatterred with the novelty and emotions of the situation, but please take earnestly his almost certain 'Canker' issues, and, his needs for being fed correct foods and sufficient hydration, and in adequate amounts.

There is really a great deal to know which one can not know for just having begun, as far as the well being of the Bird Baby is concerned, or which is too much to learn on short notice...and there are not much for short-cuts or make-do's to take the place of all this, if the Bird is to benifit and grow up and come out alright.


Anyway, good luck...


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi FormOfaDove,



Some images showing how one may feed them with a cut down people-baby 'Nipple'.


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


This method has many advantages, including that it allows small whole Seeds to be mixed in the formula, and, allows one to offer them Water between meals.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Thank you Phil, I was hoping to find a place or person that was better at handeling this then I. Yeah I guess I am a bit emotional about him,but not scattered I am trying to find the right way to care for him, hence my coming here. And as far as " novelty" It is nothing new to me as I have rescued animals for over a year now, granted they where not birds, mostly pitbulls from under houses after the flood in New Orleans, so to say this is a novelty is not quite accurate, it is more a labor of love. I cant help but love the little guy. You see, I have helped baby bunnies, lizzards, other birds, dogs cats horses. it seems that of late I have been caring for strays. My main goal and hope is for him to grow and be happy. I thank you for correcting me on what not to feed the lil guy, but your details on what to feed are a bit vague, could you lend a bit more of your advice? I will be buying the proper feed tomorrow and that should help him along untill I can get him to the proper place here in Arizona. Thanks again.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> Also AZwhitefeather, that number is not good.


Sorry about the incorrect phone number.  
According to the website the correct # is: 480-814-9339

Here's the link to East Valley Wildlife's website:
http://eastvalleywildlife.org/index.htm

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> Thank you Phil, I was hoping to find a place or person that was better at handeling this then I. Yeah I guess I am a bit emotional about him,but not scattered I am trying to find the right way to care for him, hence my coming here. And as far as " novelty" It is nothing new to me as I have rescued animals for over a year now, granted they where not birds, mostly pitbulls from under houses after the flood in New Orleans, so to say this is a novelty is not quite accurate, it is more a labor of love. I cant help but love the little guy. You see, I have helped baby bunnies, lizzards, other birds, dogs cats horses. it seems that of late I have been caring for strays. My main goal and hope is for him to grow and be happy. I thank you for correcting me on what not to feed the lil guy, but your details on what to feed are a bit vague, could you lend a bit more of your advice? *I will be buying the proper feed tomorrow* and that should help him along untill I can get him to the proper place here in Arizona. Thanks again.


The Exact Baby Bird Formula should work just fine.  

Cindy


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Thank you Cindy!! 

I will give that number a call first thing in the morning.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> Thank you Phil, I was hoping to find a place or person that was better at handeling this then I. Yeah I guess I am a bit emotional about him,but not scattered I am trying to find the right way to care for him, hence my coming here. And as far as " novelty" It is nothing new to me as I have rescued animals for over a year now, granted they where not birds, mostly pitbulls from under houses after the flood in New Orleans, so to say this is a novelty is not quite accurate, it is more a labor of love. I cant help but love the little guy. You see, I have helped baby bunnies, lizzards, other birds, dogs cats horses. it seems that of late I have been caring for strays. My main goal and hope is for him to grow and be happy. I thank you for correcting me on what not to feed the lil guy, but your details on what to feed are a bit vague, could you lend a bit more of your advice? I will be buying the proper feed tomorrow and that should help him along untill I can get him to the proper place here in Arizona. Thanks again.




Hi FormOfaDove, 


Ohhhh, this is a lot to have to hit the ground running with...and a lot which follows, too...

Any Wild Baby Bird is...and some more than others.


I do wish to mention again, that the 'yellow' Urates, to me anyway, here in the South West or wider Mojave region, should be taken as an indicator of an almost certain and serious Trichomona illness, even if the Baby-youngster is appearing for now healthy and active.


This illness is very common among Doves and Pigeons of the region, and occurs routinely in those Babys who have been stressed by privations, as well as occuring in Babys who have had no stress or privation.

The illness is usually called 'Canker' and can manifest in various ways in the Bird's system.


If you can get with AZ in Mesa, they should have the appropriate medications for this.



Feed-wise, I myself have always used the 'Nipple' and made 'formulas' which have been mostly or entirely from scratch.


More on that in a little while, have to pause now...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi FormOfaDove,



Heres some more images and captions about feeding -

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2599716200067835264JwGKGB

In this case, it is a Baby Pigeon, but everything is the same really for Infant/Baby/Youngster Pigeons or Doves in these regards.



Anyway, ingredients -


Pet Smart -


Any decent 'Wild Bird Seed' Mix, small size Bag will do...and also get some White Safflower Seeds ( 5 lb bag usually is what they will have of these,) and a small bag of Canary or Finch Seeds mix.


"Nutrical", a 'goo' in a Tube, get on the 'Puppy/Kitten' isle.


Any fine 'grit' such as for small Birds...





Health Food Store -

Goji Berrys...

Purple Dulce flakes/powder ( usually sold inexpensively in the bulk item section, by the ounce, get a couple ounces...)

Brewer's Yeast...an ounce will do, and then some...

Powedered Malt ( this is not a diary product, but is dried sprouted Barley made into a powder with some chaff in it)

If no Powdered Malt, get plain old fashioned 'Malto Meal' at any Grocery Store.




Formula -


In a Tea Cup or similar sized thing -


Take say a Tablespoon of fresh made Seed - Berry meal...( with the 'meal' itself being made from a Tea Cup of Seeds, and a 1/3rd or so Teacup of the Berrys ) 

When you make the Seed-Berry 'meal' keep it dry and covered in the freezer and just use from it what you need each time you make up some formula...discard after a week or so.

A Tablespoon of Malto Meal, or less if powdered Malt...

If you have 'Hagens' or 'K-T' or 'LeFabers' or other powdered formula stuff, say a Tablespoon of that too.

A teaspoon of the Purple Dulce flakes...

A Tablespoon or more or a lot more even, of small whole Seeds such as Finch Seed or Canary Seed.

A two inch 'squig' of "Nutrical'...

A good pinch of powdered Brewer's Yeast...

A good pinch or two of Grit...


Add enough cold Tap Water or other good Water so all is covered with half an inch of clear Water sitting on top, and cover and let sit for an hour in the refrigerator. But otherwise do not touch it, do not 'stirr' now.


Then, after letting it sit, stirr well and thoroughly, and add as much more Water as is needed for it to be about like 'melted ice cream' on a hot day.


Warm the Tea Cup of formula in a Pan of Hot Water on the Stove...do not let the formula boil or it will be ruined...just heat the Water in the Pan so it is mildly hot, and set the cup of formula in it and stirr constantly till the formula is about your own body temperature.

What I do is boil one inch of Water in a mediumsize Saucepan, remove from the heat, add an inch and a half or so of cold water, and this make the Water in the hot Pan just about perfect then for warming the formula just right as I stirr, and I can keep the formula-in-a-cup, in the Pan of Water then as I feed however many Babys as are waiting.


Baby Doves especially like the 'Malt' flavor, and are sometimes quite picky about things food wise, so this formula has been a hit with them for a long time now, and somewhat because of them, too, it evolved.


If it is not warm enough, they reject it...if it is TOO warm, it will hurt them, ( never use a microwave top warm it)...if it is too thick they reject it...if there is any flavor they do not like, they reject it...


It needs to be at just about your own or their own Body Temperature, and soon as it cools even a little, they reject it.


Lol...


This is some of "why" most rehabbers 'tube feed' them...


Lol again...


The 'Nipple' is held tilted toward them, at about mid crop level, and one ( for the first few times anyway, ) guides their Nuzzleing little Beak into it...and very gently squeezes the Nipple from the sides so it presses slightly agains their Beak and the root area of their Beak. This tactile aspect is very important to them.

Fill the Nipple less than completely full, since their Beak will displace the formula and make it slosh out otherwise.


Refill the Nipple however many times, ( two, three, four ) as suits the size of the Baby, their Crop, or their room at the moment.

Offer tepid Water in the Nipple between meals.


The days worth of formula may be made last thing the night before and kept covered in the refrigerator pending final water and stirring and warming come morning...and returned to the freezer pending the warm-up and meal-times to follow.

This way one can use that batch for the day or even more than a day, but I think it best to make new each day or day and a half tops.


I myself do not use Yoghurt or any diary products for them, but the desireable bacteria/flora which is sought IN the Yoghurt, may be found in non dairy derived "Pro-Biotic" powders, such as 'Udos Choice' and others, in small Bottles, at any Health Food Store.


Birds to not have the enzymes for breaking down Lactose, and are much better off getting their Sugars from the Grains, from small Berrys, and from Malt ( which is a dried, sprouted Grain)...and moreso yet, they ( nor we ) posess any good means of dealing with Casein, which is an auto-immune antagonist causing a whole medly of diseases and problems and allergic reactions in all species who comsume it but for baby cows...though I doubt there is much Casein in Yoghurt.



Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...well too, Lol...

One can get some K-T, a Syringe, and a Lavage 'needle' of suitable size, and just Tube-Feed the little Harpy...and this will work decently of course if one does it right.


I just evolved in a vaccuum, and worked out the Baby-things over the years as I have...and they Love being fed of course, and since they are also such fun to feed, I have seen no reason to change anything in how I go about it.


My aspiration has been to come as close as I can in as many was as I can, to raise them as close to how they would have been raised in Nature, as possible.


And since everything I can do IS so different, the best it can get is to run paralell, and to reapect their Natural History as much as possible.


This means, just as their Dove or Pigeon parents would have, I love them totally and do all the things a parent would do, they are never isolated or not with me but for some bried periods when very little, and once endothermic they have time by themselves just as they would have in Nature.

I let them have as much independance and discovery as their parents would have...I supervise what I can of their explores and so on, and I do what I can one way or another to socialize them to their Wild or feral fellows, for them to gracefull assume their wild or feral Lives with as little liability as possible.


So, true 'Baby' wise, or frail older ones wise, I keep them in my Short front, or in my Hand at night, or have them in my hand, with my hand in a warm-nest Box arrangement.


Oppse, gootta run now...

Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

How's the little one doing?

Cindy


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Evolution made simple*

Aha, Phil,



> *I just evolved in a vaccuum, ... *


You just admitted you come from outer space, since I know you're too big for an old-fashioned radio or TV tube, or a Dewar flask.

Why've you kept it a secret so long, when we suspected it all along?

Of course, I know what you mean. It's a good way to percolate new, fresh ideas.

On May 3rd you asked me what my pigeon situation is. As of a few hours ago I know. In a couple of weeks the female pigeon *Osk-gurr* with the paralyzed right wing, who has been with us since March 20th, (she can now use it a bit, "flew" upwards almost to chair seat height yesterday according to Hilde, so maybe flight is still in her future) will be going with her new mate, our male pigeon *Wieteke*, to a wonderful lady re-habber who is taking over the house and aviary of a recently-deceased pigeon raiser (room for her 30 pigeons and 170 more future pigeons). 

Sad news: I think I have disrupted Wieteke's relationship with his first mate *Mamieke*, with whom he raised 4 chicks to adulthood, because she was not allowed into our apartment, "his place still," after eviction last August from the apartment while we were in the US, as the demand of the landlord. He has been with us almost two years, through several life-threatening diseases. She would come to te window when he called, but wouldn't come in because I usually blocked her. He came to the window, and I would unobtrusively whisk him in to feed him. Any other pigeons at the window invariably attract too much unwanted attention, which in the long run can be to their detriment.

I will miss him, and for ... a while, but not too long, I hope ... I will have no pigeons around (other than the locals on the street). If I do rescues, at least there will be a couple of places I can now take them to for long-term care and living quarters.

I will be posting an update on the Osk-gurr thread, along with links to a video clip from yesterday showing partial right wing mobilization.

Wieteke and Osk-gurr have been good for each other. 

Good to see you helping out with advice for the little dove. Could you see your wway to a DSL internet connection eventually and a web-cam, and eventually doing some video demos of your techniques? Could be helpfl if the many "experts" on PT (yes, I know that the PT main forum says that there are no "experts" on PT, but for a cetain manner of speaking, one could use a re-definition of the term to fit the situation) could demo stuff hwich would help overcome language and education level and cultural barriers.

Larry


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> How's the little one doing?
> 
> Cindy



First adn foremost Thank you everyone for your help and advice.

Today was a bit of an adventure for the lil guy. I had to work recoating a roof for a very old person here in sun city, ( retirement village for the old folks) His roof was leaking when it rained and didnt have the money to pay a roofer. 

anyway, Jake had to come with me as i was going to be gone for 12 hours, and i could not let him go that long with out eating. I set him in a shady spot not to far from me so I could keep an eye out for stray cats and such. I had to make do with the cat food, and that seems to work well. Jake was very excited and peeping all day. I left the sun shade open just a bit and occasionaly he would poke his head out and have a look. I think being next to the tree with all the birds in it made him happy to hear that all day long. So in short, day 3 and he is looking fine. I did call that number but got no answer, I will try again tomorrow as I think my cell is acting funny. AZwhitefeather, can you instruct me as where to get my hands on the meds PB listed? though his poop is a bit less yellow. and stiffening back up a touch. 
It is a joy to open that lid and have him learch forward to me. His feathers are coming in nicely and very few pins left. he started to preen his back a bit today, its just so amazing to watch this lil guy. could do it for hours but i try not to disturb him too much. 

Thanks again for all your help folks!!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*regards contacting East Valley Wildlife Center (in Phoenix AZ)*

Hello TheFormOfaDove and Jake,

4 A.M. here in Cologne. Glad to hear you and Jake are doing fine.

Double-checked the phone number you have been trying to reach, and from the website it is, as Cindy listed, 



> To find an East Valley Wildlife rehabilitator call 480-814-9339.


I double-checked for you and Cindy, because I recall seeing this in the side-bar or left side panel of the web-site. You should have connected to an answering machine, but sometimes people don't erase messages and the answering machine doesn't kick in properly (happens all the time with my wife and her messages. We get calls about ever week or so saying there is something wrong with our phne, or with the answering machine). 



> Be Patient We Are Busy!
> 
> When calling to find a rehabber, have paper and pencil handy, as you will reach a recording that gives a list of names and phone numbers for you to call depending on the type of wildlife you have found and the area where you live.
> 
> ...


So, it may not be your cell phone (called a "Handy" in Germany -- wonder why? better than an "eerie," or "earie"?), but the phone or answering machine on their end, acting up.

Or maybe Jake, using telepathy or whatever to ensure that he gets to stay with his big buddy. 

Best regards, 

Larry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jake, 



I could next day air some to you which might be quicker and eaiest for you at this point.

My e-mail is [email protected], if you want to send me an address to send it to.


Anyway, I am headed to the Post Office tomorrow morning anyway...or could go fed-ex, either way.




If there are any Pigeon Supply places near you, that would work too of course.

Or, if you get ahold of AZWhitefeather or anyone else near you.


What you want ideally, is "Berimax" which I am out of and no one else has.

Or, "Ronidazole" which is a good traditional one...

"Metronidazole" will do, as will some others.



He might not have 'Canker' of Trichomona illness, but the problem is, if he does, it is just slowly getting worse where-ever it is located in him.

So, for me, I always treat for this if any sign of chaulky 'yellow' Urates...and that is what I do...and they always clear up with treatment.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*More info*

TheFormOfaDove,

Double-checking some more, since last reference on website shows 2006. Maybe info out of date but not updated, possibly. It happens.

Googling East Valley Wildlife, came up with this website also,

The Oasis Sanctuary 

http://www.the-oasis.org/about/bios/amy.php 

Brian and Amy Meade at this place mention having four feral pigeons in their care. They say that most of the volunteers at East Valley alos volunteer at the Oasis Sanctuary. 



> The Oasis Sanctuary
> P.O. Box 30502
> Phoenix, AZ 85046-0502
> 
> ...


(Brian and Amy, from New York, are PT members, BrianNAmy).

Larry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Aha, Phil,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hi Larry, 



Yea, a Web Cam or MPG would be fun...

I have been on DSL for a long time, no choice, the phone lines around here have too much 'noise' in them for any other mode, and Cable will not do this part of downtown...so...

I have often thought of doing some MPG or Web Cam thing, but do not have the right things to do it with.

My 'new' Digital Camera makes MPGs, but in the old format and no site seems to be able to host them...


Glad you are keeping your hand in the Pigeon-involvements!


Oye, I have more Birds in here now than I ever did, and believe me, I really do want to wave 'Bye-Bye' to the for-sure 'releaseables', and have some peace again!

Darned feral Cats goofed up my system, by slinking in the Shop and hiding there, and I can not let the younger Birds or others self-release or come-andp-go into the Workshop to go from there into the Outer-Worlds like I used to...

I can not have the door TO the Shop frlom in here open, or the Cats will come in here and harm the non-releaseable and 'Floor-Birds'...so that means I have to catch the releaseable ones as they come due, and put them out, and this is hard to do, since they are wiley and elude me and INTENTIONALLY roost in places I can not readily get a Ladder set up to reach with the lights out...so...for now, things are bottle-necked here with the 'flow'...

Got bunches of them ready to go, and God Bless 'em...! Just not easy now like it used to be, to get them 'out' of here!


Lol...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Pdp, I sent you an email with my address, PLEASE send a return address so i can pay you for this. Also INSTRUCTIONS!! I just want to be sure he gets the best that I can do for him. I made a trip to the store and made him some proper food. I also tried the baby nipple feeder, it works like a charm! although he needs to work on his table manners. I kind of went off the beaten path for the food, this is what i used
Bobs Red Mill 10 grain Hot cereal, It was in the health food section ( health food ...shiver) anyway it has Whole grain wheat, corn, rye, tritical, oats, soy, millet, barley, brown rice, oat bran and flaxseed. Used 1 teaspoon and cooked it. to this i added 1 small pinch of Fleischmanns active dry yeast. and two pinches of Natures song No waste birdseed this has no caseings,Finely chopped. ( i could not find nut crackers small enough to break the shells off the regular seeds) I looked at the hi-cal grit and it seemed so large, so i too a pinch and ground it to dust between my thumb and index finger, then taking the small pinch of powder and added that in. I took a 1000 MG concentrated predigested Protein tab and scraped it with a knife, two scrapes to get past any coating then two scrapes in the mix. then a 1/8 teaspoon babyfood Beef. and 3 drops of yogurt. I let this float in hot water in a plastic dish for 10 mins then cooled to body temp. put it in the nipple and man did he eat. I now know what and where the crop is. i cleand his box and got some small animal bedding and put him in that,. Uncented and very clean stuff. a few wipes on his but to keep him clean and viola! This is just like being married, including after all that i got crapped on


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*What a chef*

Wow, FOAD, that is some munchies you are feeding Jake. I'm laughing like crazy reading your descriptions.  I had to read them to my son (he's 11 and he's over there laughing too. Jake is gonna be the world's biggest dove if he keeps munching like that! He is one lucky dovie to have found you.

You realize that he has totally wrapped you around one of his little wings


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi FoaD

Phil (a.k.a. Dr. Doolittle) has certainly given you some great advice. he can truly relate to his pijies and doves and has some very innovative techniques, hence my nickname for him.

Larry, the Oasis Sanctuary, is in southern AZ and quite far from our Valley area. BrianNAmy moved and now live and work there. Someday, I would like to visit...sounds like a wonderful place.

In additions to Nancy of E.Valley Wildlife, I have the name of another rehabber in our section of town: Bonny Weller at 480-834-1529. Both Nancy and Bonny take pigeons and doves and can tube feed, if necessary.

However, FoaD, you are on the West side of Phoenix, right (Sun City)? You may wish to have Jake checked out by a Avian Vet if you have one in your area. I know of two good ones, but, again, they are on our side of town. However, I can give you their numbers if you wanted to check with their office to see who might be available on the West side. Just Private Message me and I will be happy to give you the information.

Jake sounds like quite a character and I can easily see how he has captured your heart.

Hugs and Scritches to you both

Shi


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Wow, FOAD, that is some munchies you are feeding Jake. I'm laughing like crazy reading your descriptions.  I had to read them to my son (he's 11 and he's over there laughing too. Jake is gonna be the world's biggest dove if he keeps munching like that! He is one lucky dovie to have found you.
> 
> You realize that he has totally wrapped you around one of his little wings



On the contrary, I am the one that is lucky. And yeah, I guess your right, he has me right where he wants me. A few little peeps and Im there.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

And we're lucky to have you come here and join our band of bird lovers and caretakers.
I love how you have Jake as your Avatar.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> *AZwhitefeather, can you instruct me as where to get my hands on the meds PB listed?*


Hi FOaD,
I use Spartrix for canker pijjies. Thankfully, I don't have to use it that often.  
I'll be happy to give you some for your little one.
Since we live quite a distance from each other, perhaps we could meet half way. 
If you'd like send me a pm & we can figure out something.

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TheFormOfaDove said:


> Pdp, I sent you an email with my address, PLEASE send a return address so i can pay you for this. Also INSTRUCTIONS!!




Will do...




> I just want to be sure he gets the best that I can do for him. I made a trip to the store and made him some proper food. I also tried the baby nipple feeder, it works like a charm!



Glad to hear...!




> although he needs to work on his table manners. I kind of went off the beaten path for the food, this is what i used
> Bobs Red Mill 10 grain Hot cereal, It was in the health food section ( health food ...shiver) anyway it has Whole grain wheat, corn, rye, tritical, oats, soy, millet, barley, brown rice, oat bran and flaxseed.




Decent idea, but no good in practice...this is too far from the real Nutrition of wholesome, whole Seeds one makes into a coarse powder right now...and far from the likewise of small whole Seeds one adds to the formula for one this age to eat.


That entire hoaky 'Bob's Red Mill' schtick is a rip off anyway...that schmuck buys these grains for three dollars a hundred pounds, and re-sells them semi-processed and stale, in brittle cellophane packages, for six bucks for a few ounces.

Be fine with me if he got his capitalist greedy grifter hind-end caught in the 'Mill' and ended up a Tod Browning casting-call extra.



Or, don't get me started...


Lol...



Anyway...

This stuff will have lost a great deal of important nutrition for it being made into that product. It is no good...throw it away.


Baby Doves need Seeds which are not mashed or broken or processed in any way.

Or, if they are TO be mashed/broken/ground, then they need that to be done ONLY for the next few days food-formula.

Forget 'Bob'...he's a schmuck with a schtick.




> Used 1 teaspoon and cooked it.



No, you must not cook it, or cook anything for a Baby Dove or Pigeon...only "raw" ( and appropriate un-messed-with by others) Seeds or Grains...some RAW fresh Greens ( Kale or Endive or Carrot Tops or Beet Tops or Mustard Greens, no "lettuces") , raw semi-dried small Fruits or Berrys such as Goji Berrys, Wild Currants, Elderberrys, and so on...never cook them...never cook anything for these Birds.


Cooked Grains loose likely 3/4rs of their Nutrition, and in this case, these have lost a great deal of Nutrition already prior to that by being rolled or cut, so by now, it is a compounded, exponential loss...and the result is about as useless as 'cardboard' would be...and for Baby Doves or Pigeons, this is no good...they will virtually starve on that stuff...so, just plain, as they come in Nature, "Seeds" made into a coarse powder BY YOU ( not 'bob') in small batches, in any clean Kitchen Blender or small clean Coffee Grinder...

Add small whole Seeds to his/her formula also...such as Finch Seed Mix, Canary Seed Mix, or the likes...





> to this i added 1 small pinch of Fleischmanns active dry yeast.



Okay...uhhhh, I myself am not familiar with what that might do...so, to keep things on the safe side, I'd say skip that from here on.

'Brewer's Yeast' as such, is a different strain of Yeasts, it is a yellow Powder which is a traditional food suppliment even for invalids, containing several important B Vitamines, I know can be used safely for Babys or Adults who are in good enough health...

...if their health is off in the 'right' ('wrong') ways, if their immune system is down, it can kill them with Yeast infections.


Baking Yeasts I just do not know about as for their safety as suppliments for Baby Birds. Many people would break out in 'hives' or go into anaphylactic shock and die if they ate "Fleishmans', so, I'd say "No"...


Possibly it is fine, maybe others here can share their opinions or experiences with it...as for me, I'd say "No" on that one.






> and two pinches of Natures song No waste birdseed this has no caseings,Finely chopped. ( i could not find nut crackers small enough to break the shells off the regular seeds)



No...that stuff is no good...it is not good to feed it to any Bird unles in an emergency maybe...the whole Seeds he/she as a Baby Dove, the Seeds they will be eating AS "Seeds" need to be simple plain small whole Seeds...which have not been de-hulled or cut or broken or shelled or messed with.



Canary Seed or Finch Seed are right to add just as themselves TO the already made formula...so there are whole small Seeds IN the formula...so he or she is eating a fair amount of small, whole, wholesome Seeds as such, IN their formula...aside from whatever else the formula is made of.


Make the formula, add small whole Seeds to it so she or he is actually eating small whole Seeds as such..."Seeds in formula-Soup"...


Any Seed which has had the 'skin' broken, been 'rolled' or 'cut' starts deteriorating instantly...so any packaged stuff make from broken or rolled or cut or de-hulled Seeds, unless Nitrogen packed instantly, is no good...no one with any ethics would sell such stuff under any pretext...or at least it is not very good anyway, or is worse than not very good, compared to plain, whole, small Seeds, small sizes in this case for her/his size and age...



Seeds" for making "fresh" Seed-Meal out of:

Get "Pigeon Mix' if you can...15 bucks for fifty pounds at any Feed Store.

And or...

Go to Petsmart, get a Bag of regular Mixed Seeds called "Wild Bird Seed" it is like 8 bucks for 45 pounds, less for smaller bags...get a small Bag of White Safflower Seeds...get a small bag of Finch or Canary Seed mix...

Use these, forget anything else so far as messed-with or processed 'seed' products...


While you are at 'Petsmart' get a tube of 'Nutrical', it is on the puppy kitten isle.

Go to a Health Food Store, get a package of semi dry "Goji Berrys"...


...and part one...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...part two...





> I looked at the hi-cal grit and it seemed so large, so i too a pinch and ground it to dust between my thumb and index finger, then taking the small pinch of powder and added that in. I took a 1000 MG concentrated predigested Protein tab and scraped it with a knife, two scrapes to get past any coating then two scrapes in the mix. then a 1/8 teaspoon babyfood Beef.



Any plain old fashioned Parakeet or Canary or Finch Grit, sold in most Supermarkets is excellent for Baby Doves...it is just Quartz 'sand'...a fairly fine, clean, Quartz Sand...you can put a pinch into a day's feeding.

I know you mean well, completely, but please re-read my prior mentions...then re-read these mentions again too.


This is a Vegan Creature, no "meat" in any way shape or form please...


And nothing 'cooked'...


No "protean tablets" getting 'scraped'......


(S)he will get all the "protean" they need from what I am recommending you feed them.


In Nature his or her Dove Parents would be feeding him or her semi-hydrated to not hydrated at all, small to medium sized whole Seeds, and if available, or as much as avaioable, also various small fruiting bodys or 'Berrys' of Weeds or Fruiting Plants or Shrubs, and little bits of fresh 'Greens'...


This is the basic "recipe" I am recommending,. and I am recommending it because it is what is right for this Baby.


...and this is what (s)he needs...no "meat" and nothing 'processed', unless processed "fresh" by you in a Blender to make 'formula' with, with you grinding up large whole Seeds such as Bird Seed or Pigeon Mix, unpopped Pop Corn PLAIN kind...not microwave kind...and or other stuff also such as Goji Berrys and some Greens, so it is made "fresh", grinding THIS into a powder for making formula out of...



"Malto Meal" is important, or ( no dairy added, of ) PLAIN "Malt Powder", because many Baby Doves once they are NOT starving so bad they will eat almost anything, can become rather picky about what they will eat.

Yours is semi starving and right now will eat almost anything, and this will change soon if you DO start feeding him or her correctly, and then the food has to be "right" according to their tastes...or they will not eat it...and nor should they.


And, since they like the 'Malt' Flavor, they find the formula which contains that flavor to be acceptable, or more acceptable...or more likely TO be acceptable...or they just plain love it...




[ quote[and 3 drops of yogurt. I let this float in hot water in a plastic dish for 10 mins then cooled to body temp. put it in the nipple and man did he eat. I now know what and where the crop is. i cleand his box and got some small animal bedding and put him in that,. [/quote]


Well...this is not an 'Animal' like a Guinnea Pig or Puppy is...he or she will do best with something flat, semi smooth, but able to be gripped, and smallish so they "know" that that small identifiable TO THEM in their terms of it, area IS their "Nest"...

Normally their Nest is about the size of a 'Saucer'...with some sort of ledge often...they will wish to poop off the 'side' of what they construe to be their Nest...and that is the size it should be now for them to find it easy to their wits as for knowing they are even IN a 'Nest' at all...otherwise they vex and are worried about where the Nest is, where to poop, and where the heck they are safety wise and place wise and they will wish to wander trying to find it or be anxious.




> Uncented and very clean stuff. a few wipes on his but to keep him clean and viola! This is just like being married, including after all that i got crapped on



A white or light color small Towell is very good to keep them on, or is best in many ways...some towell or white cotton Tee-Shirt material...

...cut off the bottom inch of any small cardboard Box, six or eight inch by likewise...or grab a cake pan, or pie pan, and line it with a folded soft piece of light or white towell or tee shirt material, making sure no loose threads are there for them to get their feet tangled in, set this if need be in something larger so it is sheltered and private-feeling..

You can see and count the poops better, nothing is hidden, their feet can grip it well, it is warm-ish, they can cuddle in it, and you just turn it over after a few days, and use the "B" side if you want or just leave it be...I tend to just leave it be.

...do that...

I myself just keep them in a shallow small thing like a cake pan, with some soft light cloth in it, and have THIS in a medium sized ( one foot by one foot by one foot or maybe a little larger ) Cardboard Box on it's side...on it's side, open on one side...and all that then on a table top.

I will post a link to an image...


Your present diet will either kill this Baby or soon sicken them, or will hardly nourish them if they did live long enough to find out...so please, begin at the beginning, and re-read the mentions I have cumulatively posted for you.


All of this, in every way, every detail, matters...there is only so much ( not much ) room for error or departure if the Bird's well being and survival is to be respected.


Good intentions mean a great deal, but do not prevent most neophyte care-givers from sickening, stunting, injuring or killing these kinds of Bird Babys as a usual matter of course...and or having them die not long after...leaving aside the rest of what is involved aside from or in addition to, JUST keeping them alive.

I say, have every 'edge' one can get to favor their health and survival and safety, for their having as little stress of any sort as possible...while respecting their Natural History and letting it work for the whole situation.

Things have to be done in their terms as much as we can...with them, not making them abide things wrong for them.


Is this youngster definitely, unambiguously 'warm' if you have them sitting in your palm? Are they making their own for sure "heat" to where you can feel it in your palm with them sitting on it, with no doubt at all?




Best wishes..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Link to some images of a 'peeper' Warm-House 


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/512124277uXlSSR


In Winter or when need be, has an electric Heating Pad in it...


Only the first few images are about this.


They will stay put in this just fine, and if one is worried they shall not, one merely closes the front 'flap' so they may not come out without one letting them out.


Take them IN their 'Nest', out onto the front 'lawn' ( towell area of the table or whatever, ) for feeding times if very young.

Once older, and ambulating, they can come out on their own power when one calls them to come and chow down, and they go back in on their own then after they have eaten.

It is fine to let healthy poops be and not fuss with cleaning them up...they actually protect the Baby from various germs and bacteria and some insects...


Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1415432960067835264kAxsyW


Some Baby Dove images...had not had these two long...one of these was pretty badly injured and had some ruptured Air Sac issues...likely one or both had had Canker or other problems also...both turned out fine and grew up well and were released after some forays on their own into the outer Worlds and so on, once ready...most Summers I get quite a few Baby Doves in varying conditions.

They are a delight, for sure...

I had so many Pigeons in here in pre-release phase, I dared not have these two Baby Doves vulnerable, so they stayed sometimes under the Wire Basket on the Bed, when I could not be with them to supervise. Soon after they fledge, they do fine around Pigeons so long as there is room enough to maneuver or get out of their way or not get cornered.

I likely had a dozen more Baby Doves close to these or overlapping them...there were many Air Sac rupture ones from Hawks taking the Sibling from high Palm Tree Nests and the one then falling to the pavement or ground from the commotion...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Double-checked the phone number you have been trying to reach, and from the website it is, as Cindy listed, 480-814-9339.
> 
> *You should have connected to an answering machine,* but sometimes people don't erase messages and the answering machine doesn't kick in properly (happens all the time with my wife and her messages. We get calls about ever week or so saying there is something wrong with our phne, or with the answering machine).
> 
> Larry


You're right Larry. Normally one does get her answering machine. However . . .
Shi said she tried calling Nancy yesterday as well & the phone rang & rang, but no answering machine.  
I do know she gets a gazillion calls a day & perhaps her machine is filled to the max.  

TFOaD,
Apparently I didn't have my thinking cap on straight yesterday or I would have suggested you emailing her.  
The email address from the website is: [email protected]

Cindy


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*About feeding egg yolk*

A current PT thread discusses vitamin D3, absorption through skin, sunlight. Was researching it. 

Article (link given below) said *too much vitamin D3 from egg yolk will affect calcium absortion and cause problems* for birds. 

------------------
If you have the time and interest: 
(This belongs to vitamin D3 thread, so I will list only the web-link here).

http://www.2ndchance.info/birdsvitd.htm

Vitamin D in Birds and Mammals, by Ron Hines DVM PhD 4/21/06

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Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*About splay leg*

Phil,

I haven't read all your posts (short on time just now), but be sure to warn him how to avoid, prevent splay leg. 

Maybe he wants to leg-band chick? Or maybe later with a colorful, plastic, removeable leg ring. Just an idea. I have no opinion either way. Could be helpful if Jake is later too people-friendly; could warn people he belongs to someone, and is not a rabid, flying attacker hurtling from the sky. Or help people notice and report him if he went missing like Victor's Tooter and my Pidgiepoo. 

Don't you be telling him to carry Jake around in a bra strapped to his chest. Would counteract his tattoos. LOL.

Larry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Larry, thanks for the link.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sorry I went on so long there about various things...overtired, perspective a little wangley...


Meds on their way, should be there tomorrow morning...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Jake died today at 3:22pm, he waited for me to come home to say goodbye. thank you for your help folks.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh I am so very sorry. Thank you for treasuring this lovely little being and for caring for Jake. 
Feather hugs and tears


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm having a hard time absorbing this news because I thought he was doing so well. But, you know, he was so very young and there is a very good possibility he had internal injuries from the fall from the tree. When they're his age, it is always "iffy".

Please don't take this too hard because you gave him a great deal of love and attention and care.

The positive part of your relationship with Jake is that you now know how very sweet and wonderful birds can be and how much they give to us.

God bless.

Just a thought for you. We have a forum "Hall of Love" where members can post a tribute memorial to our beloved birds that have passed away. It doesn't matter how long we keep them, the hurt is just as bad whether it is a day or years.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

FormOfaDove,

I am so terribly sorry about Jake's passing.


Don't stay away from PT. It was nice talking with you. Once a pigeon or dove discovers you, others follow. And I still wish you all the best.

Maybe check with the wildlife rescuers. You have definitely got talents animals in need of care appreciate and can use. 

I'd like to meet you in person someday. And many of the other members of PT. Problem is, for many there are pigeons in need at home. It's like being a farmer; hard to take vacations unless you have capable neighbors who can take over for a while.

Larry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What terrible news. I am so sorry, I was shocked to read the news.
Maggie has a good point, it might have been from the fall and there is nothing you could have done about it. Those little birds are so delicate.
You gave him the love and care he deserved and he will be watching over you like a true angel he is.
Bless you for the wonderful few days you gave Jake.

Reti

PSlease keep in touch.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I am so sorry to hear of Jake's passing.  
Thank you, for giving him the opportunity to experience the love of human hands.  

*"May you forever fly free, sweet Jake"*

Cindy


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## TheFormOfaDove (Jun 9, 2007)

Thank you all. I am not very good at "people" things. but you all have been very kind to Jake. Thank you for your help and advice.

Moderator, please close thread.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I am so very sorry that little Jake has passed on. What a very special little bird he was.

Terry


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