# Removing fake eggs from ringneck dove nest?



## Libis

Ok, so about two months ago my pet ringneck doves laid eggs. This made my hen pretty ferocious, but the cock was ok with me taking the eggs right out from underneath him for a little bit, especially once he saw that I "put them back." (He was kind of concerned--watching carefully but still relatively calmly, but when I put in the brightly colored fake eggs he counted them and was ok with it despite the sudden color change and addition of speckles. lol)

Anyway, they are still on these fake eggs after at least 2 months of sitting. I figure it's a long time past when they should have given up and so today I tried to remove the fakes. The hen held back, but the cock came up and watched me remove them. He got really upset after a bit of time (puffing up, following me, glaring, etc) when I didn't put them back as he had become accustomed to me doing. He didn't stop being upset until I put them back in the nest and he appeared to count them before sitting on them and watching me carefully. 

Should I just let them sit on the eggs until whenever they give up? 

It's kinda getting gross in that nest (which is actually a plastic doggy bowl,) but they become very distressed when I remove the "eggs" for any longer than a few seconds. It's so weird, because I take eggs from the diamond doves without issue. 

The ringnecks are getting really good at sitting on eggs I guess. lol. It's too bad I don't have room for more pet birds right now, or I'd let them try raising some babies. I bet they'd be good at fostering as well.


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## whytwings

If it were me and they were so insistant on sitting ......I'd probably let them sit on them .
I am mostly a pigeon person and I'm not sure how intricate ring neck doves build their nests , but you could try and replace a new bowl much the same as the present one if it is of concern .......and if they abandon the egss it probably wont hurt anyway .

I'm curious as to what people do in preparing nest bowls .....do you use liners or anything like that ?


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## Libis

My diamond doves like their nest to have paper bedding in the bottom and then a soft cotton stuff on top that's made for finch nests. They're kinda spoiled. 
My ringnecks don't like so much fluff. I tried putting clean timothy hay in their bowl/nest, but they didn't like it and started sitting in their food dish instead. I tried the same bedding as the diamonds like, but the ringnecks ignored it. 
They were ok with it when I put a little less hay in, but really seemed to prefer something stiffer--the sticks from their millet treats. I've heard of people using pine needles, so I guess it makes sense for them to want something stiffer. It would probably be better for a squabs feet/legs to have something to hang onto (if they were sitting on real eggs rather than Easter decorations right now...)

Anyway, I guess I probably will just see how long they decide to sit on these eggs lol. Unless anybody knows some way that that could be bad for them?


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## whytwings

I don't think theres anything wrong with spoiling your birds 

I am new to using dog bowls , thats why I asked the question ......I have always used terrecotta bowls but have found the right size and depth hard to come by .......but I have always made a paper mache liner which I think the birds appreciate , or at least I hope they do ....lol

good luck with your birdies and hopefully you'll get some good advice .

Regards 

D


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## Libis

The ringnecks really seem to prefer the most simple setup possible. lol For a while they had nothing in their nest but one stick from the middle of a millet spray. Paper mache would be an interesting experiment.  That's basically what I put in the bottom half of the diamond nests--to save on cotton (I think they would use all cotton if I let them, but the nesting cotton stuff is expensive lol.) Plus I think that the paper stuff in the bottom adds more spring to it like a mattress. 

Oh, forgot to mention, the diamonds get a finch nest (as seen in my sig) instead of a dog bowl since they're so little.


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## MaryOfExeter

Many of my birds do get pretty huffy when I try to bother them on the nest. Personally, I like that in a bird  Makes them more fun than the ones who run off the nest. I usually give the birds on the nest a few scritches on the back of the neck to calm them down (even though they still fuss at me!).
I would just leave the fake eggs. Think of it this way - the longer the sit on the fake ones, the less real ones you have to worry about replacing!  Just make sure she doesn't randomly decide to lay again while the fakes are still there.

I don't see how it could be a bad thing. If anything, it's saving the hen from having to use up more calcium. Seems like they are pretty happy as they are.


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## whytwings

I just had a look at the pics in your album..........they are truely gorgeous !!!


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## MaryOfExeter

I just realized Lucy, Susan, and Edmund sound a lot like they came from Narnia!  Great names


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## Libis

whytwings said:


> I just had a look at the pics in your album..........they are truely gorgeous !!!


Thanks! I love them all so much.  



MaryOfExeter said:


> I just realized Lucy, Susan, and Edmund sound a lot like they came from Narnia! Great names


That's exactly where I got the names from.  Couldn't have a Peter, though, since Ed starts fights with other cocks. lol



MaryOfExeter said:


> Many of my birds do get pretty huffy when I try to bother them on the nest. Personally, I like that in a bird Makes them more fun than the ones who run off the nest. I usually give the birds on the nest a few scritches on the back of the neck to calm them down (even though they still fuss at me!).
> I would just leave the fake eggs. Think of it this way - the longer the sit on the fake ones, the less real ones you have to worry about replacing! Just make sure she doesn't randomly decide to lay again while the fakes are still there.
> 
> I don't see how it could be a bad thing. If anything, it's saving the hen from having to use up more calcium. Seems like they are pretty happy as they are.


Yeah, I'll probably just let them be. lol.


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## spirit wings

When I had my doves, I would take up the eggs.. just to give them a break!.. they would sit and sit and sit..and the nest would get all poopy..I do not think there is a right way or wrong here.. but just do what you think may need. I think if you want to hatch out some diamonds they would make really great fosters, That is if you need them too.. to time it you would have to take up their eggs and the diamond doves eggs at the same time..and then they should lay close to each other time wise..then switch their eggs for the diamond doves..and of course give the DD's fake eggs..


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## Libis

That would be awesome, Spirit Wings, but I only have female diamond doves right now. lol. They go right on laying anyway.  I just let the diamonds sit on their eggs for as long as they want usually, because they lose interest after a month or so. 

I'm a college student and my cage space is maxed out, so I can't have anyone having babies unless I know beforehand that someone responsible and loving will definitely adopt or purchase them.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> That would be awesome, Spirit Wings, but I only have female diamond doves right now. lol. They go right on laying anyway.  I just let the diamonds sit on their eggs for as long as they want usually, because they lose interest after a month or so.
> 
> I'm a college student and my cage space is maxed out, so I can't have anyone having babies unless I know beforehand that someone responsible and loving will definitely adopt or purchase them.


oh..I see.. thought you were thinking of doing it.. those are really nice pets to have for a student!..personally I love the hens.. I had three hens...and it was much more quiet around the house... those males can be so lound sometimes.


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> oh..I see.. thought you were thinking of doing it.. those are really nice pets to have for a student!..personally I love the hens.. I had three hens...and it was much more quiet around the house... those males can be so lound sometimes.


Edmund isn't too bad about being loud--although that probably has more to do with me having grown up with parrots than with him being quiet for a dove lol. I love his personality, though. He's my tamest and most curious bird. <3 He was also my first dove. The doves have been great for being in college. I don't have the time to train/play with a parrot (except for my little sis's budgie once in a while  ), and the doves keep each other entertained well while still giving me the chance to have birds around. 

I would definitely think of it if I had someone good/safe to give or sell the babies to afterwords. It would be fun to have a little one(s) around for a while. Wish I had neighbors with doves/pigeons, then I'd ask if they had any eggs to foster.


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## doveone52

You might want to keep in mind the experience I had. A pair were sitting on fakes for an awfully long time but I figured if they were happy so was I. Then one morning, I woke to find 2 tiny pink babies under them-along with the fake eggs! So they had squeezed them in there without my noticing!


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## Libis

Actually, I think they're working on tricking me in a similar manner. I found an egg that appears partly developed this morning (saw a blood vessel in the egg).


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## doveone52

Aha! Good luck with your baby! They are precious!


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## Libis

Thanks, I'm really excited. We've already got an adoptive home all lined up for when baby grows up too.


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## Doves1111

Make sure the nest has plenty of nesting material in it...so when the baby hatches it's legs won't slip on the bottom of the nesting bowl and get splayed legs. I put pine shavings on the bottom and alfalfa hay, timothy hay, or pine needles on top. If they remove the nesting material... I replace it. Sometime I have to do this several times until they finally give up and leave the hay or pine needles in the nest. When the nest gets soiled...just replace it with an identical looking nest.

Dawn


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## Libis

Ok, they hate timothy hay, but that's what I've got on hand, so I'll try to get some in there. They are being really good about putting all the pine needles that I give them in the nest.


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> When the nest gets soiled...just replace it with an identical looking nest.
> 
> Dawn


Do you think that if I put a differently colored but otherwise identical nest in that they would notice? The store I bought the original from is carrying these in blues and reds right now.


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Ok, they hate timothy hay, but that's what I've got on hand, so I'll try to get some in there. They are being really good about putting all the pine needles that I give them in the nest.



If they hate the timothy hay then use the pine needles. I use either or...depends how lazy I am. Easier for me to just grab some hay from the barn...then to bend and pick up White Pine needles from the ground...
The long needles from the White Pines are perfect...just the right size...

Dawn


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Do you think that if I put a differently colored but otherwise identical nest in that they would notice? The store I bought the original from is carrying these in blues and reds right now.


That's fine...as long as they are shaped the same. I would go with the blue...sometimes doves are afraid of red. They see it as blood. I can't wear any bright colored clothes when I go into my loft...no pink, yellow, or red. The doves freak and go crazy...flying wildly...!!!

Dawn


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## Libis

ok, I'll get them more pine needles after lunch.  They're being very good about putting them in the nest on their own. 
How deep should the needles be?

I will buy a blue version of the nest tomorrow at the store then. They're closed today. 

Hey, I've heard that sometimes doves will accidentally flip their nests and get trapped. Do you think this dog bowl that mine are using has a wide enough base? I can't tip it very easily with pressure on the edges. (I tried to evaluate it like we used to evaluate bowls for the guinea pig--if they stand on it will it tip.. that kind of thing.)


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## spirit wings

here are some more ideas for nesting bowls/boxes..

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/nestingcontainers.htm


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## Libis

Well, not much update for today, but thought that I'd keep this current. They've been sitting on the nest very nicely and whenever I check the eggs are nice and warm. Haven't had another chance to candle b/c the hen was getting very upset and I figured candling is optional and it would be better not to stress her and just let time go on its own.


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## Libis

Today the eggs weren't quite as warm when I checked them (in the morning both doves tend to be off the eggs for a little bit and socializing). They were still warmer than room temperature and still had kind of a heavy feel when I picked them up for a second. Still haven't candled in several days. (Too sleepy this morning--I was concerned I would drop it.)
Anyway, how cold does an egg get before it gets chilled and dies?


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## Libis

They're still sitting nicely today. Managed to switch nests without them freaking out too much. Edmund did stare at the nest for a bit and seemed confused at the color change though lol. 
Crossing my fingers that the egg didn't get too chilled that one day. Should know for sure some time around this weekend though. 

Need to know: how deep should the pine needles be in the nest to keep baby's legs growing straight?


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## Doves1111

I layer the bottom of the nest with pine shavings and top it off with about a 1/2" deep of White Pine needles or coarse hay.

I'm so excited for you...your first babies!!! 

Dawn


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## Libis

I've got about 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch of pine needles in there at the moment. 
It looks sturdy when the parents stand on it--they don't move and expose the plastic. 

I know! I can't wait till this weekend or next week when the hatching should happen.


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## Libis

Edmund was really shuffling weirdly on the nest when I came home after work today. When he finally settled down he really crouched low in the nest and glared at me--which is out of character for him. Really made me think there was a baby moving around under there, but it might have also been him sensing the storm coming. Of course, babies tend to be born in storms--so crossing my fingers.


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## doveone52

Can't wait for the babies! So exciting!


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## Libis

Well, no babies or even pipping yet--he must have been sensing the storm or something. There's plenty of time, though. I'm just hoping that they didn't let it get chilled. 

Super excited though!


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## rascal66

Hi Libis,
I know this may be late, but if they are still sitting on these eggs, then I have an idea that may work. 
I believe I have read somewhere before that if you move the cage to a new location, they may feel the need to abandon the nest. But as for my advice, you might *not* want to follow this procedure because although I might have read this somewhere before, I could have been mistaken for something else. (Truly i believe moving their cage will increase stress) But I can provide you this one site that I use for my own doves. Maybe it has what you are looking for there.
http://www.diamonddove.info/index.html
I truly wish you luck!


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Well, no babies or even pipping yet--he must have been sensing the storm or something. There's plenty of time, though. I'm just hoping that they didn't let it get chilled.
> 
> Super excited though!


What is the hatch (due) date???

Dawn


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## Libis

Rascal--if they abandon the nest now any babies inside the eggs will be chilled and die. That feels cruel to me. I will only get rid of eggs before development begins (prior to incubation.) 

Doves1111--since I don't know for sure when she laid, it's somewhere between today and 5/16. I know sometimes they can be late too, though. I've been watching since 5/12 just in case I guessed the dates way off. 
I just hope the egg didn't get too cold that one day. I haven't candled since that first day because it isn't really necessary and I don't want to stress Lita (she's very young and hasn't done this before.)


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> Rascal--if they abandon the nest now any babies inside the eggs will be chilled and die. That feels cruel to me. I will only get rid of eggs before development begins (prior to incubation.)
> 
> Doves1111--since I don't know for sure when she laid, it's somewhere between today and 5/16. I know sometimes they can be late too, though. I've been watching since 5/12 just in case I guessed the dates way off.
> I just hope the egg didn't get too cold that one day. I haven't candled since that first day because it isn't really necessary and I don't want to stress Lita (she's very young and hasn't done this before.)


why would you candle on the first day?


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## Libis

Because it wasn't actually the first day. She hid the egg from me. It was starting to develop so I let her keep it.

I didn't want babies and if the egg hadn't had a chance to be incubated for a while and it was truly the first day when I found it it would have been removed and replaced with fakes.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> Because it wasn't actually the first day. She hid the egg from me. It was starting to develop so I let her keep it.


oh..so it had to be about 5 days old when you found it and it is fertile.. ok.. it should be about 19 days old then.. it should of hatched by now if you could see it was fertile on the 30th of april.


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## Libis

I'll try and take that egg sometime today and get a look at it then. You're probably right that it's dead. I just wasn't sure what age to guess.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> I'll try and take that egg sometime today and get a look at it then. You're probably right that it's dead. I just wasn't sure what age to guess.


what did you see in the egg when you candled it the first time.. you can tell about how far along it is by what you see in there.


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## Libis

I saw a small blood vessel. It looked like a dark spot may have just been forming in the middle, barely.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> I saw a small blood vessel. It looked like a dark spot may have just been forming in the middle, barely.


ok.. so it was at least 5 days old.. darn.. I would wait a few more days just in case..


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## Libis

Yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking. I don't think I can throw it out if there's any hope.


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## Libis

The baby hatched! My fuzzy cellphone pics in just a second. (Will try to get better pictures soon.)


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## Libis




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## spirit wings

I can't really see it..but congrats!... he was pipping the whole time we were discussing him...lol...


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## Libis

lol. I know--funny huh?
I'll work on getting better pictures later today or tomorrow. With both parents on the nest feeding baby it got hard to get a clear pic--especially when my hen started being upset.


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## imluvnit01

omg omg so cute. cant wait for better pics


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## Libis

Will get better pics as soon as possible. I just wasn't prepared to take pictures right away when I got up this morning lol!


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## Libis

Best they've let me get so far. Can't wait till he/she gets a bit bigger so baby will be more visible. 
I think that's the back of baby's head.


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## rascal66

My that's just beautiful c: Congrats~


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## rascal66

Libis said:


> Ok, they hate timothy hay, but that's what I've got on hand, so I'll try to get some in there. They are being really good about putting all the pine needles that I give them in the nest.


Your doves are just beautiful.  (Quick question though, the white on the bird is a mutation right? She's Gorgeous~


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## rascal66

Libis said:


> Rascal--if they abandon the nest now any babies inside the eggs will be chilled and die. That feels cruel to me. I will only get rid of eggs before development begins (prior to incubation.)
> 
> Doves1111--since I don't know for sure when she laid, it's somewhere between today and 5/16. I know sometimes they can be late too, though. I've been watching since 5/12 just in case I guessed the dates way off.
> I just hope the egg didn't get too cold that one day. I haven't candled since that first day because it isn't really necessary and I don't want to stress Lita (she's very young and hasn't done this before.)


I truly go against that too. But it was my response to earlier in the forum, where they were laying on dummy eggs, that they didn't want to leave them. But seeing as though they recently had babies, I can tell this problem is long solved.


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## Libis

rascal66 said:


> My that's just beautiful c: Congrats~


 Thanks! 



rascal66 said:


> Your doves are just beautiful. (Quick question though, the white on the bird is a mutation right? She's Gorgeous~


She's an orange whiteback (though the breeder called her pearled--people here are pretty sure she's a whiteback b/c of how the white goes up her back so I'm going with that.) If I understand correctly you can get whitebacks in several colors, but I haven't seen many others (not a lot of people keep doves here.) I think it's a mutation in the same sense that pied would be a mutation. This is who I got her from: http://www.dovepage.com/buy/george-schutt/index.html



rascal66 said:


> I truly go against that too. But it was my response to earlier in the forum, where they were laying on dummy eggs, that they didn't want to leave them. But seeing as though they recently had babies, I can tell this problem is long solved.


Yeah. lol. They kind of got around me on that one. XD


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## rascal66

Libis said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> She's an orange whiteback (though the breeder called her pearled--people here are pretty sure she's a whiteback b/c of how the white goes up her back so I'm going with that.) If I understand correctly you can get whitebacks in several colors, but I haven't seen many others (not a lot of people keep doves here.) This is who I got her from: http://www.dovepage.com/buy/george-schutt/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. lol. They kind of got around me on that one. XD


Haha, thanks for the info on the doves, they truly are beautiful~ I'll keep that page in mind because if things go good with my Diamond doves, I may have some more time for new comers c: Thanks for sharing!


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## Libis

rascal66 said:


> Haha, thanks for the info on the doves, they truly are beautiful~ I'll keep that page in mind because if things go good with my Diamond doves, I may have some more time for new comers c: Thanks for sharing!


Here's an info page on color genetics: http://littlegreendarcyaviary.t35.c...eckdovespeciesinfo/ringneckdovesmutations.htm


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## Libis

rascal66 said:


> Haha, thanks for the info on the doves, they truly are beautiful~ I'll keep that page in mind because if things go good with my Diamond doves, I may have some more time for new comers c: Thanks for sharing!


Oh, hey, if you're interested in diamonds DovePage also has a diamond breeder that looks pretty good. (Usually DovePage is pretty reliable.) 
http://www.dovepage.com/buy/james-kell/index.html


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## chezd3

Hi I let my pigeons and also some doves I fostered sit on fake eggs until they loose interest.


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## Libis

chezd3 said:


> Hi I let my pigeons and also some doves I fostered sit on fake eggs until they loose interest.


That's what I had intended to do, but it turns out that when I do that Edmund and Lita keep sitting until they've laid another clutch and then I get babies. lol. Sneaky little buggers.


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## Libis

Much better pics today:


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## Libis




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## Libis

And a video:


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## Doves1111

Congratulations!!!

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Congratulations!!!
> 
> Dawn


Thanks!


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## Doves1111

rascal66 said:


> Haha, thanks for the info on the doves, they truly are beautiful~ I'll keep that page in mind because if things go good with my Diamond doves, I may have some more time for new comers c: Thanks for sharing!


The International Dove Society site has pics and descriptions of the different mutations...
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/

The DovePage has pics of the different mutations too...
http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic/Ringneck/ringneckcolorlist.html


Dawn


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> She's an orange whiteback (though the breeder called her pearled--people here are pretty sure she's a whiteback b/c of how the white goes up her back so I'm going with that.) If I understand correctly you can get whitebacks in several colors, but I haven't seen many others (not a lot of people keep doves here.) I think it's a mutation in the same sense that pied would be a mutation. This is who I got her from: http://www.dovepage.com/buy/george-schutt/index.html


A Whiteback is completely white from its' back to the tip of its' tail. If there is any pearling at all in the back or tail...then it is a Pearled...even if it's just a couple of pearled feathers.
Whitebacks and Pearled come in 2 color mutations...Tangerine and the dilute of Tangerine...Orange. 

Do you have a pic of her back and tail?

Dawn


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> And a video:


Great video...!

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> A Whiteback is completely white from its' back to the tip of its' tail. If there is any pearling at all in the back or tail...then it is a Pearled...even if it's just a couple of pearled feathers.
> Whitebacks and Pearled come in 2 color mutations...Tangerine and the dilute of Tangerine...Orange.
> 
> Do you have a pic of her back and tail?
> 
> Dawn


Best I can find for now. I'll try to snap one of her back when I come home from work.


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## Doves1111

It looks like she has pearling in her tail in the first picture. Does she have any pearling in her tail?

Dawn


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> She's an orange whiteback (though the breeder called her pearled--people here are pretty sure she's a whiteback b/c of how the white goes up her back so I'm going with that.) If I understand correctly you can get whitebacks in several colors, but I haven't seen many others (not a lot of people keep doves here.) I think it's a mutation in the same sense that pied would be a mutation. This is who I got her from: http://www.dovepage.com/buy/george-schutt/index.html


The breeder you got your dove from...
George Schutt is "Grand Master Breeder"...accumulation of over 1000 points while showing his doves in the American Dove Association sanctioned shows for over 40 years.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> The breeder you got your dove from...
> George Schutt is "Grand Master Breeder"...accumulation of over 1000 points while showing his doves in the American Dove Association sanctioned shows for over 40 years.
> 
> Dawn


Then I'm going to guess he was right about her being pearled. lol


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## imluvnit01

yayayyayayyayayaya om so cute


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## spirit wings

oh is'nt that so cool.. thanks for showing!


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## Libis

A second baby hatched yesterday afternoon sometime between 3pm and 8pm (had to be out of the house.) I had put that egg in the fridge immediately after it was laid, since I thought that that would be enough to render it nonviable after a day or so. I guess not. It's weird, though, the younger baby has way more little fuzzes than the older one. 

Will they be ok being two days apart, or should I start prepping to perhaps hand feed one?

*edit* I've contacted a friend who breeds parrots about possibly borrowing or telling me where to find a good heat pad just in case. (All we have is this weird hot water doughnut thing that seems too big.) She hasn't replied just yet though since it's still early in the day and I know she's feeding all of her critters now.


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## Libis

Side question out of scientific curiosity: Do you guys find that your squabs are born fluffier when it's cold outside, and more naked when it's warm? 

Just wondering, because I find it interesting that the baby whose egg spent time in the fridge hatched so much fluffier.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> Side question out of scientific curiosity: Do you guys find that your squabs are born fluffier when it's cold outside, and more naked when it's warm?
> 
> Just wondering, because I find it interesting that the baby whose egg spent time in the fridge hatched so much fluffier.


you know I don't know.. but it is an interesting thought.. maybe you can do some research on it.. I would like to know too.. I have not noticed it in pigeons here..but I usually breed in spring when it gets a bit warmer..sometimes in fall when the weather is not so hot.


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> you know I don't know.. but it is an interesting thought.. maybe you can do some research on it.. I would like to know too.. I have not noticed it in pigeons here..but I usually breed in spring when it gets a bit warmer..sometimes in fall when the weather is not so hot.


I wish I had more birds/space. If I did I would do a more scientific study on it, maybe putting one clutch in the fridge (for 24 to 48 hours, and right away before egg development has begun) and then having another never be in the cold as a control and comparing over several trials. (Instead of one egg in one out--since that could cause problematic age differences in siblings.)


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## Doves1111

The down on each of the color mutant squabs differ from other color mutants in color and length. Right now I'm guessing...just guessing because I don't know what genes your doves may have hidden...that the first squab hatched is a Orange (perhaps a Rosy Orange if both parents carry Rosy...this may account for the short sparse down) and the second one is an Orange...no Rosy gene carried. 

From Dr Wilmer Miller's site...
http://ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's WebPage/dove_culture.htm

Pick the babies out of the nest and examine them under a good light. Let's start with ordinary blond (fawn) birds. Note the medium-length and slightly yellowish down, the dark eyeballs, and the dark beak-ring behind the whitish tip. [Wild type down is tan in color, white down in albino or white doves occurs and yellow down in certain others, even the wild type dark. Further, the bill ring may be thin or missing even in dark or blond doves! These are more recent genetic discoveries.]
Next look at white babies--the down is short and sparse, the eyeballs pinkish, and the beak all pink (no dark ring).

Darks (wild color) are just the opposite--longer profuse down, very dark eyeballs and beak ring, and even the skin is dark, but the difference from blond becomes less after some growth.

Albinos are even more extreme than ordinary whites--extremely little down (almost bare), completely pink eyes and beak. The skin remains pink.

Pied babies practically always lack the bill ring, but the dark eyeballs will distinguish them from whites.

Rosy babies are not easy to distinguish from blonds, so that only long experience can be a guide. But rosy blonds (peach) have a faint bill ring, and look a bit more ruddy than plain blond.

Ivory babies also are difficult to distinguish from blonds. However the blond-ivory baby has a blanched or bleached appearance of the down, their eyes are a dark pink, and the bill ring is faint.

Silky babies may have slightly fuzzy down. But I have been fooled so often that it is better to delay a decision until the pinfeathers spread out.

There are other sites to compare the down comparison in the different mutants...I will look for more for you.

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/comparisons.htm

http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/AviaryPages/ColorIndex.html

Dawn


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## Libis

Well, to update, I checked on the babies this afternoon and both their crops looked nice and full. Didn't get a chance to touch or anything like that, as my hen ran over and sat and it didn't seem necessary enough to stress her more. Probably changing out nests for the first time tomorrow. Will be switching to a slightly larger bowl, the two day old is getting pretty big.


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> The down on each of the color mutant squabs differ from other color mutants in color and length. Right now I'm guessing...just guessing because I don't know what genes your doves may have hidden...that the first squab hatched is a Orange (perhaps a Rosy Orange if both parents carry Rosy...this may account for the short sparse down) and the second one is a Blond/Fawn.
> 
> From Dr Wilmer Miller's site...
> http://ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's WebPage/dove_culture.htm
> 
> Pick the babies out of the nest and examine them under a good light. Let's start with ordinary blond (fawn) birds. Note the medium-length and slightly yellowish down, the dark eyeballs, and the dark beak-ring behind the whitish tip. [Wild type down is tan in color, white down in albino or white doves occurs and yellow down in certain others, even the wild type dark. Further, the bill ring may be thin or missing even in dark or blond doves! These are more recent genetic discoveries.]
> Next look at white babies--the down is short and sparse, the eyeballs pinkish, and the beak all pink (no dark ring).
> 
> Darks (wild color) are just the opposite--longer profuse down, very dark eyeballs and beak ring, and even the skin is dark, but the difference from blond becomes less after some growth.
> 
> Albinos are even more extreme than ordinary whites--extremely little down (almost bare), completely pink eyes and beak. The skin remains pink.
> 
> Pied babies practically always lack the bill ring, but the dark eyeballs will distinguish them from whites.
> 
> Rosy babies are not easy to distinguish from blonds, so that only long experience can be a guide. But rosy blonds (peach) have a faint bill ring, and look a bit more ruddy than plain blond.
> 
> Ivory babies also are difficult to distinguish from blonds. However the blond-ivory baby has a blanched or bleached appearance of the down, their eyes are a dark pink, and the bill ring is faint.
> 
> Silky babies may have slightly fuzzy down. But I have been fooled so often that it is better to delay a decision until the pinfeathers spread out.
> 
> There are other sites to compare the down comparison in the different mutants...I will look for more for you.
> 
> http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/comparisons.htm
> 
> http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/AviaryPages/ColorIndex.html
> 
> Dawn


Thank you so much for all of this info!  Sooooo helpful!!! 
It would be really exciting to see a couple of different colored babies grow up to see how each feather color looks as they grow.  I hope they're two different colors.

Oh, and Edmunds genetics are completely a mystery, since he's an unbanded rescue bird. 

I need to look back up Lita's band # and see if her breeder would mind looking up or recalling whether she carries rosy.

Oh, I noticed that baby with the sparser down has pink eyes and beak, while the fluffier baby has dark eyes and beak. Not sure that's very easy to see in pics. It seems like those skin colors are fairly important, while I look through all this stuff.


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## Doves1111

Yes...the hidden genes can change everything. For example...if your male carries White hidden...you may have a Pink female.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Yes...the hidden genes can change everything. For example...if your male carries White hidden...you may have a Pink female.
> 
> Dawn


I was kind of wondering if white genes was a possibility here, since that baby is sooo pink. I'll have to watch for the eye color on that little one. 

At the same time, I've always wondered if he has rosy in there. Because his beak and eyes have always looked exactly like the rosy bird on this page: http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/AviaryPages/Eyes.html
However, his beak does not look like the beak of the blonde bird on that page. Everything else about him looks blonde though as far as I or anyone who has looked can tell.


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## Doves1111

Yes...you are right about your Blond male's beak being lighter. I found that Blond males that carry the White gene hidden are diluted or lighter in color than Blond males that do not carry the White gene hidden. This also affects their beak color. I also see this in the color Orange and Blond Ivory. Male Orange that carry White hidden have a lighter head and breast...Blond Ivory males that carry White hidden are very white with a dark neck ring. 

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Yes...you are right about your Blond male's beak being lighter. I found that Blond males that carry the White gene hidden are diluted or lighter in color than Blond males that do not carry the White gene hidden. This also affects their beak color. I also see this in the color Orange and Blond Ivory. Male Orange that carry White hidden have a lighter head and breast...Blond Ivory males that carry White hidden are very white with a dark neck ring.
> 
> Dawn


And that definitely explains why the babies are different colors and why it's been difficult to find an internet example of a blonde that looks like him.  
This is awesome--figuring all this out makes me want to pull back out my genetics book from last semester!


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## Libis

Updated pictures:


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## Libis




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## Libis




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## Doves1111

Beautiful pics!!! As I was saying I don't know what your doves carry in hidden genes...so it can be unpredictable. It looks like the first born is going to be either White or Pink. That would mean that the male carries White hidden. The second born I would say will be Orange. The White or Pink baby will be female.
You may want to take the first born out for a little while and let the parents feed the second born so it could catch up.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Beautiful pics!!! As I was saying I don't know what your doves carry in hidden genes...so it can be unpredictable. It looks like the first born is going to be either White or Pink. That would mean that the male carries White hidden. The second born I would say will be Orange. The White or Pink baby will be female.
> You may want to take the first born out for a little while and let the parents feed the second born so it could catch up.
> 
> Dawn


How long should I take out the first born? Long enough that I'll need to hand feed her? Should I find a hot water bottle or a brooder or a heat pad? A friend who raises parrots said that a 10 gallon fish tank with a nest in it and a reptile lamp works. What do you think? How should I be doing this step-by-step? I don't want to make any mistakes (at least no dangerous ones if nothing else.) 

So far the younger one was getting fed before the older in the mornings when the feeding is timed such that I can see it. I don't know if this observation is of much help though. I know the older baby is beginning to get pretty strong comparatively


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## Doves1111

I take the bigger baby out for 3 or 4 hours...usually in the morning. I do this when I am cleaning and feeding. My doves always eat their feed after I clean and feed...even if I don't replenish their feed trough with new feed. They think I do...because when I feed them...I do the feed whistle...so they eat. After they eat...they go feed their babies. So if the little baby is the only one in the nest it will get fed. After 3 or 4 hours replace the big baby back into the nest and the parents will feed both babies. Do this for a few days until the little one catches up in size.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> I take the bigger baby out for 3 or 4 hours...usually in the morning. I do this when I am cleaning and feeding. My doves always eat their feed after I clean and feed...even if I don't replenish their feed trough with new feed. They think I do...because when I feed them...I do the feed whistle...so they eat. After they eat...they go feed their babies. So if the little baby is the only one in the nest it will get fed. After 3 or 4 hours replace the big baby back into the nest and the parents will feed both babies. Do this for a few days until the little one catches up in size.
> 
> Dawn


What's the best way to keep her warm during these hours? Heat lamp, water bottle, or go buy a brooder? 
So glad that the weekend is coming up, otherwise I leave for work an hour or less after waking.


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## Libis

Oh, and in the afternoon I can pick up Edmund without a problem, but Lita would be a different story. 

In order to pull the older baby, I'll have to move her though. How should I pick her up (hissing and biting all of the way) without her kicking or anything that could potentially injure a baby?


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## Libis

Pics from yesterday. Sorry to be behind--there are relatives in town this weekend. btw, this morning the pink older baby opened her eyes and they are very scarlet red (incl. the pupils.)  So probably a white bird, right?


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## Libis

Now I wonder if that pink baby is going to be white (since apparently sometimes white babies start out with red pupils and pink/red irises and grow up and gain more color there), albino (since according to this article sometimes blondes randomly throw albinos: http://www.ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's WebPage/Gen_rn/Gen_RN/GEN_RN2.HTM ) or pink.


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## Libis

Not sure if she's just fidgeting or breathing really hard. Posting video because it's really worrying me. I made sure that Edmund wasn't standing on her or anything. Is she ok?

*edit* now she has stopped doing this. I don't know if she was just fidgeting or what.


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## Libis

Today's pics:


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## imluvnit01

so adorable


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Now I wonder if that pink baby is going to be white (since apparently sometimes white babies start out with red pupils and pink/red irises and grow up and gain more color there), albino (since according to this article sometimes blondes randomly throw albinos: http://www.ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's WebPage/Gen_rn/Gen_RN/GEN_RN2.HTM ) or pink.


The 2 squabs look close to being about the same size in the pictures. I don't think you have to remove the first hatched anymore. If you do...a hot water bottles works good. When I remove the babies...I reach under the parent and take it out. Make sure you cover the baby completely with your hand to shield it from any pecks or wing slaps.

I'm so sorry, but I goofed...!!! I don't know what I was thinking when I said you can get White offspring from this breeding. No White...*Pink*! I think I didn't account for the modifier in the Orange Pearled hen and came up with possible Blond and White offspring. The modifier changes that and eliminates Blond and White...and changes it to Orange and Pink. I would say this baby is Pink and not Albino. It is most likely that your male Blond carries White hidden and not Albino. It IS possible though to get Albino offspring...if *both* parents carry the recessive Albino gene.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> The 2 squabs look close to being about the same size in the pictures. I don't think you have to remove the first hatched anymore. If you do...a hot water bottles works good. When I remove the babies...I reach under the parent and take it out. Make sure you cover the baby completely with your hand to shield it from any pecks or wing slaps.


 Yeah, the little one has done a great job catching up. I know it's way too early to tell, but that younger baby is so loud and pushy part of me really wants to think it's a boy. 



Doves1111 said:


> I'm so sorry, but I goofed...!!! I don't know what I was thinking when I said you can get White offspring from this breeding. No White...*Pink*! I think I didn't account for the modifier in the Orange Pearled hen and came up with possible Blond and White offspring. The modifier changes that and eliminates Blond and White...and changes it to Orange and Pink. I would say this baby is Pink and not Albino. It is most likely that your male Blond carries White hidden and not Albino. It IS possible though to get Albino offspring...if *both* parents carry the recessive Albino gene.
> 
> Dawn



Pink is absolutely adorable, so I'm glad to hear that this is the most likely color.  
The younger babies first couple of feathers that opened almost looked whitish this morning, but it might have been a trick of the light. He'll need a lot more feathers before I can see the color well.


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## Libis

A couple of pics from yesterday:


















And one pic from this morning.


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## Libis

Here's a pic from this morning. The older baby is really getting lots of feathers in.  (Nesting cotton was added to outside edges of the nest just in case the younger baby gets chilly. If you guys think it's overkill I'll get it out, though.)


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## Doves1111

Yes...overkill. I would be afraid that would get caught in their feet. Your doves are inside...how cold could it be? All my doves, Ringnecks and Diamonds, are kept outside in an unheated loft year round. My first clutch of squabs hatched on April 5th...it was cold outside...still is come to thing about it...
I band my babies at 5 to 7 days old. That is when I clean the nest and replace the nesting material with just pine shavings at this point...no more hay needed. I replace the soiled shavings as needed to keep the babies clean and dry.

Dawn


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## Libis

Ok, I'll get it out as soon as I get home. I was just worried about them since they aren't being sat on so much any more.
Fortunately I don't think it will get caught in the meanwhile, since the diamond doves are always ok (they really like that stuff) and it's fiber intended for use with finches.


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## spirit wings

ahhh they look cozy... I would just keep it warm in the house at this age they should be fine.


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## Libis

Yeah, they seem to like it. It's going to be 80 degrees outside today, though, so they'll probably be just fine inside (probably about 75 at home) without the cotton stuff.


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> I band my babies at 5 to 7 days old. That is when I clean the nest and replace the nesting material with just pine shavings at this point...no more hay needed. I replace the soiled shavings as needed to keep the babies clean and dry.
> 
> Dawn


Too bad my ADA bands aren't here yet (just joined last week and ordered a small number of bands. I'm kind of starting to think about letting them raise babies every once in a while and then selling them. If all else failed I could donate them to the ADA for the youth program--I think that's kind of a good cause anyway.) 
I'm going to keep one of these two babies, though, and give the other to imluvnit01. 


So they're old enough that they don't need to be grasping rounded stuff with their feet any more to avoid splay leg?


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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> So they're old enough that they don't need to be grasping rounded stuff with their feet any more to avoid splay leg?


Are they a week old? You still have to make sure there is enough material to keep them off the bottom of the slippery plastic nest. My nests are made out of wood...but I still pile on the pine shavings to cover the bottom. You can still use the hay if you want. I like the shavings...but you may like using the hay or pine needles better. 

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Are they a week old? You still have to make sure there is enough material to keep them off the bottom of the slippery plastic nest. My nests are made out of wood...but I still pile on the pine shavings to cover the bottom. You can still use the hay if you want. I like the shavings...but you may like using the hay or pine needles better.
> 
> Dawn


Yes, the littlest one is a week old this afternoon. The hay is just easily accessible for me lol, though I'd rather have pine needles or shavings. (All the pine needles outside keep getting wet in the rain.) 

This morning it was really cute, the babies were trying to clumsily preen each other. :3

Here are the only pics of them that I could get, couldn't quite catch them on camera preening each other though.


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## Libis

Looking ahead, at what age should I be watching to make sure these little guys are properly weaned? Also, at what age should I start working with them on socialization with my family and learning to enjoy human companionship?


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## Libis




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## Libis




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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Looking ahead, at what age should I be watching to make sure these little guys are properly weaned? Also, at what age should I start working with them on socialization with my family and learning to enjoy human companionship?


They should start eating on their own around 3 weeks old...sometimes even earlier. Weaned around 4 or 5 weeks. Some babies learn so quickly to eat and drink by themselves...and others are so dependent on their parents and want to be fed. I find the Silky mutant to be slower in developing and learning how to do things on their own...like eating or finding the water that is right in front of their beaks...

At around 5 to 7 days...around the time I band my babies...I start handling them daily for about minute. At about 2 weeks I handle and play with them for about 5 to 10 minutes. As they get older I play with them longer and longer each day. Once they're weaned...have a ball...!!!

You babies are beautiful...is the youngest one an Orange Pied? In the picture it looks like it has white feathers and a darker color feather coming in...or it is just the light reflecting off?

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> They should start eating on their own around 3 weeks old...sometimes even earlier. Weaned around 4 or 5 weeks. Some babies learn so quickly to eat and drink by themselves...and others are so dependent on their parents and want to be fed. I find the Silky mutant to be slower in developing and learning how to do things on their own...like eating or finding the water that is right in front of their beaks...
> 
> At around 5 to 7 days...around the time I band my babies...I start handling them daily for about minute. At about 2 weeks I handle and play with them for about 5 to 10 minutes. As they get older I play with them longer and longer each day. Once they're weaned...have a ball...!!!
> 
> You babies are beautiful...is the youngest one an Orange Pied? In the picture it looks like it has white feathers and a darker color feather coming in...or it is just the light reflecting off?
> 
> Dawn


Thanks for all of the info. It's going to be really fun working with them as they age. 

Ok, good, I think I've been at about the right amounts of time then. I've just been holding them for a little bit, talking to them, and looking them over a little to make sure they're ok when I clean the nest. 

I'm not sure what the youngest is. I've noticed that his feathers look quite varied in shade, but I can't tell yet what color he is. I think it's mostly just because my eye is untrained and we haven't had a good sunny day in a while.


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## Libis

Here are the pics from this morning:


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> You babies are beautiful...is the youngest one an Orange Pied? In the picture it looks like it has white feathers and a darker color feather coming in...or it is just the light reflecting off?
> 
> Dawn


Some of his feathers came today. He has blonde wing coverlets like his daddy, but his back especially getting close to the top of the tail is really really light. I'll have to pick him up and get a better look to see if it's a soft dun or white though. Nothing even close to flights yet to see if they go to white. The tail isn't all of the way here, so not sure what color it is. Do blondes darken with age, or is he maybe a pearled or pied?


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## Libis

You know, looking at this page ( http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/comparisons.htm ) maybe he is an orange after all. I don't know. He looks so much dustier colored than mom, but maybe he'll get brighter with age?

*edit* yeah, this page almost certainly confirms him as orange: http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/YoungPages/OrangeYoung.html
The color still seems really light and not so orangy to me, but maybe it's just because of the age of the bird and the lighting in the room. 

*edit 2* Unless he's peach...? http://wwingsaviary.lbbhost.com/YoungPages/PeachYoung.html


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## Doves1111

Yes...it is an Orange...I could see the color in the flights.

No Blond offspring...the double factor (the pearling) in the Orange Pearled eliminates Blond/Fawn and changes it to Orange...which is the dilute of Tangerine (Blond Tangerine). Even though your hen may be Pearled and not a Whiteback...she still has a lot of white on her back and tail and I think has the modifier gene. 

It couldn't be pearled either...because you can't get a pearled with this pairing. If Edmund was an Orange...then it could be possible.

Pied is possible if both parents carry the recessive gene.

Dawn


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## Libis

K, it might partly be due to the yellowish lighting why it's so hard for me to see, then.  Glad to have your second opinion. 
When he's a bit older I'll have to get him over to a window for some natural light.


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## Libis

The little pink one is starting to become my favorite, even though she does like to poof up and be "scary" just like mom.


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## Libis




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## Libis




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## Libis




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## spirit wings

oh look at them..are'nt they pretty!


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## Libis

It's crazy how fast they're getting big.


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## Libis

Oh my gosh! Today the oldest baby explored her way right out of the nest. She was happy, so I let her hang out for a while watching her parents. The little girl even figured out how to get back up into the nest (which is kind of high for her.)


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## Libis




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## Libis




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## Owls_N_Frills

Adorable babies! Thanks for sharing all these pics of the little ones


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## Libis

Thanks! I'm having a lot of fun getting all of these pics and watching how they grow.


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## spirit wings

They really are so adorable!


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## Libis

Today, when I was changing out the hay in the nest, I had my boyfriend sit with the babies in his lap. It was so cute how the little orange one cuddled right up against his leg and looked like he wanted to go to sleep.


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## Doves1111

This baby is pure special...isn't he from the egg you put in the refrigerator?

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> This baby is pure special...isn't he from the egg you put in the refrigerator?
> 
> Dawn


Yeah, he is the one from the fridge. 
I just wish I could know if it was a boy or girl. If it's a boy, I probably shouldn't keep that one b/c he'd fight with his dad. (Edmund is known for starting fights with other boys. Then losing.) 

Can doves be surgically sexed by a vet like parrots? At what age would you think? Or maybe it would be better to look into genetic tests, though I probably can't afford that.


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## Doves1111

Yes...you can have a dove DNA tested...but I have never done it. I don't know the earliest age. The youngest baby has white feathers encircling its' eyes....in general this means it's a male. I have never recorded this down on paper for my own record keeping... but on many times I found it out to be true. I think it is in the International Dove Society...somewhere. I will look for you.

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Yes...you can have a dove DNA tested...but I have never done it. I don't know the earliest age. The youngest baby has white feathers encircling its' eyes....in general this means it's a male. I have never recorded this down on paper for my own record keeping... but on many times I found it out to be true. I think it is in the International Dove Society...somewhere. I will look for you.
> 
> Dawn


Does this place look legitimate to you? Their prices are really reasonable. http://www.avianbiotech.com/Pricing.htm

I never knew white feathers around the eyes was an indicator.  Thanks for the info!


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## Doves1111

Yes...as I recall...there has been members on the yahoo doves-pigeon forum that used this company. 

Dawn
PS...I'm still looking in the IDS for white feathering around eyes...


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Yes...as I recall...there has been members on the yahoo doves-pigeon forum that used this company.
> 
> Dawn
> PS...I'm still looking in the IDS for white feathering around eyes...


Ok, over the next couple of paychecks I'll ponder whether I should get him tested or not. It looks like they even test eggshells--glad I saved his. 

Thanks for looking for the info--it would be super helpful.


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## Libis




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## Libis

Look who's hopping out of the nest now. 

Earlier today, when I got the babies out to hold for a bit, the little guy cuddled up to me so sweetly it was hard to put him back in the cage. :3

*ps: apologies for all the seeds everywhere--Edmund was super hungry this morning and attacked those seeds!


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## imluvnit01

smart little babies


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## Libis

The babies are perching now  and the oldest one is flying a little bit because last night I found her perched up on one of the high perches.


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## Libis

The whole family:


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## Libis

Oh, and a question: Does orange slowly darken with age?


----------



## spirit wings

you have alot of scatterd seed..which is fine with babies there so they peck at it..but in the future you may want to check out some of these ideas if you have not seen them already..the containers with a hole cut worked great for my doves..no more mess and waste.
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/feedcontainers.htm


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> you have alot of scatterd seed..which is fine with babies there so they peck at it..but in the future you may want to check out some of these ideas if you have not seen them already..the containers with a hole cut worked great for my doves..no more mess and waste.
> http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/feedcontainers.htm


Yeah, it's a lot more than normal since I put in a low reptile dish for the babies in case the younger one hasn't figured out how to get into the big bowl. I've also been feeding the parents from my hand in front of the babies as much as possible--and they throw the seed everywhere.

This might be a good idea for my diamond doves, actually, because I haven't found a doggy dish that they couldn't toss seed out of.


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## Libis

The younger baby has been getting pecked by its dad. D:

Edmund bow coos and then comes up and bites and pecks at the orange baby's head. No blood yet, but I'm worried. (He does have a scratch on his cere now though.) How much of this is normal/should I allow?


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## spirit wings

at some point he will see them as intruders and not his babies any longer..it sounds like they should be removed.


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> at some point he will see them as intruders and not his babies any longer..it sounds like they should be removed.


They aren't weaned yet... How often should their feedings be at 2.5 weeks???

(He's only attacking one, he's very nice to the older baby.)

Oh, and when we took the babies out today, we let him out too, and he's been behaving a bit better. We thought it might also be possible jealousy?


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> They aren't weaned yet... How often should their feedings be at 2.5 weeks???
> 
> (He's only attacking one, he's very nice to the older baby.)
> 
> Oh, and when we took the babies out today, we let him out too, and he's been behaving a bit better. We thought it might also be possible jealousy?


they should be pecking and picking up seeds by now.. doves wean sooner than say pigeons which should be eating on their own by 4 weeks old..these are almost 3 weeks old and should be picking up grains.. use your best judgement as you are there to see what is happening...just would hate for the young one to get hurt.. he may be starting the weaning process and wanting them to move out..


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## Libis

I messaged Doves1111 and this is what she suggested: 



> Edmund is ready to start another clutch. Some males get agressive towards the hens...other towards their babies. The babies should have started eating on their own by now...besides being fed by their parents or parent. I know cages are limited in space for you...but if you can remove the female into another cage and leave Edmund with the youngsters to feed...he should stop being aggressive towards the baby. I just did this myself. But...I removed the Dad and his 2 babies (hatch date 5-08-11) and put them in another cage where he couldn't see his mate. He took care of the 2 babies by himself. They learned to eat by themselves by watching him. I took him out of the cage a few days ago because the babies are eating very good by themselves. I watched to see that they found the water by themselves. I dipped their beaks into the water for a couple/few days until they found the water on their own. Babies that are dehydrated with sit puffed with their eyes closed or squinted.


So I'm trying that out right now. Will see how it goes over the next couple of days. 
They have been pecking at seeds, but not very effectively yet.


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## Libis

They've been pecking better at seeds and eating from my hands. The youngest is much better at it than the oldest is. Nobody has figured out water yet. 

I switched Edmund and Lita, because Edmund got aggressive again today (but this time with the oldest baby) and the babies still need to see an adult bird drinking and stuff for a bit yet. 

Oh, and I observed yesterday that the oldest baby added some scratches to the youngest's cere by begging for food.


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## spirit wings

you can dip the tip of the beak in the water to show them where it is.. I usually do this during the weaning process so they learn where the water is.


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> you can dip the tip of the beak in the water to show them where it is.. I usually do this during the weaning process so they learn where the water is.


I tried that a bit yesterday, but it didn't get across. I think they will need some repetition to figure it out.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> I tried that a bit yesterday, but it didn't get across. I think they will need some repetition to figure it out.


I know.. they seem they do not get it..but they surprise you usually it only takes me a few times to show them..sometimes they drink too..esp when they are first weaned and eating on their own with only seeds. they may not want it right then but they do remember where you showed them it was.


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## Libis

It's been a while, but here's the update:

babies are eating and drinking. 

The oldest baby is sick. See this thread: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f24/help-sick-baby-ringneck-53462.html

New pictures:










Hanging out like a little birdy potato:









Sleepy:


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## Libis

Noticing color that confuses me on the younger baby. looking at the tips of the flight feathers, there are little tips of orange on the otherwise white flights. This is interesting, because in the standard for orange that I saw in doveline they have all white flights. Is this just a juvenile trait?


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## Libis




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## Doves1111

Libis said:


> Noticing color that confuses me on the younger baby. looking at the tips of the flight feathers, there are little tips of orange on the otherwise white flights. This is interesting, because in the standard for orange that I saw in doveline they have all white flights. Is this just a juvenile trait?


Yes...the flights will change color when it molts into its' adult plumage. This is the orange color I saw on the flights when we were trying to identify it's color.

Are you sure the Pink baby was drinking on its' own??? When I notice a baby that is puffed up with squinted eyes...this is always dehydration. It takes some babies a long, long time to learn how to drink on their own. If they don't drink...they don't eat which causes green poops...which is a sign starvation. I had young birds as old as 8 weeks that refused to drink on their own...I had to dip their beaks into the water a couple times a day. 3 and a half weeks old is still young to be considered weaned. You have to show them everything a few times a day and watch them like a hawk to make sure they are drinking and eating. I have or had very few babies that found the water by themselves and were smart enough to drink without being shown a couple, few, or several times before they finally caught on. 

Dawn


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## Libis

Doves1111 said:


> Yes...the flights will change color when it molts into its' adult plumage. This is the orange color I saw on the flights when we were trying to identify it's color.
> 
> Are you sure the Pink baby was drinking on its' own??? When I notice a baby that is puffed up with squinted eyes...this is always dehydration. It takes some babies a long, long time to learn how to drink on their own. If they don't drink...they don't eat which causes green poops...which is a sign starvation. I had young birds as old as 8 weeks that refused to drink on their own...I had to dip their beaks into the water a couple times a day. 3 and a half weeks old is still young to be considered weaned. You have to show them everything a few times a day and watch them like a hawk to make sure they are drinking and eating. I have or had very few babies that found the water by themselves and were smart enough to drink without being shown a couple, few, or several times before they finally caught on.
> 
> Dawn


We showed them a whole bunch of times. I see her drink more than I see her eat. They couldn't stay with the parents any longer, though, the way things were going. 
I took her to the vet today and he said that she has a bacterial infection. (He even showed me what to look for under the microscope.) and she's getting meds twice a day now. He did say, like you, to watch their eating very very closely. 

I stayed home almost all day today checking periodically and about every 2 hours I would catch them eating/drinking. I also fed them from my hands twice today, as has been the habit for about a week. I'm staying home tomorrow until 5 too (have to close the grocery store). Sunday I'll be home as much as possible. Mom is watching too. (Mom used to work at a bird store helping hand-raise cockatiels and care for the adult birds and stuff. She hasn't done it for 20 years, but she's still a lot of help.) Luckily mom doesn't work during the summer.


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## rascal66

Libis said:


> Oh, hey, if you're interested in diamonds DovePage also has a diamond breeder that looks pretty good. (Usually DovePage is pretty reliable.)
> http://www.dovepage.com/buy/james-kell/index.html


Thank you so much for this link!!! This is very useful and im actually in need of buying females ;D This is perfect. Thank you so much!


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## rascal66

Hello again,

Just checking back through the forums and your baby doves are looking mighty fine! They are just gorgeous!


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## Libis

Babies are doing well and everybody is healthy again. 

Sorry for the lack of updates, when I get the birds out now, the babies are becoming a bit of a handful--which makes it harder to get pictures.

These pics were taken at the vet's office on Friday while we waited for the vet. I let them out so that they would be settled down when they got their checkup.


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## Libis

Yeah, I know letting birds sit on your head teaches them bad habits. We're working on it lol.










Part of the reason they wanted to get up on top of my head so much that day was to look at that giant inflatable tick... For some reason they were fascinated by it, but were scared to look too closely at it without me.


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## spirit wings

they grow up so quick.. perching on your head is only a no no for wild birds being rehabbed and have to go back out in the wild.. for your pets.. it is just fine if that is what you want them to do..


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## Libis

spirit wings said:


> they grow up so quick.. perching on your head is only a no no for wild birds being rehabbed and have to go back out in the wild.. for your pets.. it is just fine if that is what you want them to do..


Yeah, but even with pets it gives one little control over what's going on--even less so than when a bird is on one's shoulder. It is too easy to accidentally answer the door with a bird on top of you and lose them outside. (This happened to my mom with the cockatiel she hand-raised herself. She answered the door, forgetting that he was on her shoulder and a gust of wind came up... She's felt bad about it ever since.) 
I also have several friends who fear birds and I do not want to aggravate their fears by having a bird fly at their face. lol. I've gotta train them to be polite. :3


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## Libis

Today I saw the orange baby practicing bow cooing (or bow squeaking lol) and driving the pink baby.


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## imluvnit01

hahahha cute!!! try to get it on video


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## Libis

imluvnit01 said:


> hahahha cute!!! try to get it on video


lol, I should. This time I was caught off-guard, and he was done pretty quickly, but we'll try again the next time I see him do it.


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## Libis

Sorry there haven't been a lot of pictures this week. Mom took the camera with her on vacation. 

This week the babies have really been growing--I can't believe how quickly. I put them in a bigger cage and they seem to be really liking it. The pink baby is getting so that she really sticks around me like glue and loves to sleep on my hand/lap, while the orange one is way too curious for his own good and likes to look/peck around a lot until he gets too scared or tired and lets me pick him back up. 

I am concerned that the orange baby--who I'm almost certain is a male with all the bow-cooing that he's trying to do--could be a problem in the future if I ever want to be able to let all of the ringnecks fly in the house at the same time. He starts fights by strutting up to the front of his father's cage and trying to look tough. I think he's feeling somewhat invincible with how much his flying is improving and he's got a little teenager attitude going on. It's causing Edmund to bash himself against the bars of the cage which is kind of worrying. I mostly have to fly the babies in the bathroom where Edmund can't see them because of this now.


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## Libis




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## Crhuff55

*pet doves and fake eggs*

i have a pair of ring necked doves who regularly lay two eggs - i let them sit on fake wooden eggs for two weeks, then remove them and they go thru the whole process again . they are extremely healthy birds. they make no nest to speak of, i give them a bowl and some pine needles or leaves which they fiddle with. anyway this has been going on for almost 3 years. i let them hatch one egg two years ago , and then i had to find a companion for the baby. so now i have two cages. they are constantly making noises. the second pair has never had an egg. christie


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## Libis

Crhuff55 said:


> i have a pair of ring necked doves who regularly lay two eggs - i let them sit on fake wooden eggs for two weeks, then remove them and they go thru the whole process again . they are extremely healthy birds. they make no nest to speak of, i give them a bowl and some pine needles or leaves which they fiddle with. anyway this has been going on for almost 3 years. i let them hatch one egg two years ago , and then i had to find a companion for the baby. so now i have two cages. they are constantly making noises. the second pair has never had an egg. christie


Yeah, since the babies grew up, I've been letting them sit on fakes whenever they lay new eggs. Expecting a second egg to a new clutch today, actually. 

The closest to a nest mine ever wanted to use was a bowl with pine needles or hay.


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## Crhuff55

my doves do not seem to care when i take away the real eggs and put in the wooden ones - nor do they act upset when i take the wooden ones away - i guess my thought has been that it is doing no harm for them to lay real eggs every now and then - christie


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## Libis

Crhuff55 said:


> i guess my thought has been that it is doing no harm for them to lay real eggs every now and then - christie


They do still lay real eggs after about 3 weeks when they decide that the fakes are duds. Just the same as they would if they laid a real infertile egg.

Oh, and as for egg removal--my male doesn't really care, but my female is very protective of the nest.


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## Libis




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## Libis

In this next pic, the little boy leapt to fly right as I took the pic. lol


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## Libis

Here are the babies sitting on my lap.


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