# city park pigeon w/neck torsion



## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Hi there. Nice to find a place on the web where there are people like me who love and honor the remarkable "city" pigeon. I have 2 parakeets and 10 zebra finches and am highly experienced with basic bird care. Have also rescued several pigeons in the past, with an average cure (sometimes with kindhearted vet help) and release rate, but am still a novice. 

About 36 hours ago I collected a pigeon in a park near where I live in downtown St. Louis. It looked like the end was near. The most obvious sign was neck torsion and difficulty keeping balance. The only other symptom is that he tends to keep his right eye closed, opening only to see what's happening. The rim appears ever so slightly swollen in comparison to the the left yet there is no discharge. He/she is a not a youngster (still early in the season) and shows no other obvious signs of illness/injury. He/she is isolated in my guest bathroom, temp is 80degrees. After research, I guessed it was either viral or bacterial. I figured I would do my best, hope it was bacterial and do emergency treatment with avian supplies I stock. 

The first 12 hours I fed him with a syringe every few hours a dosage appropriate solution of an avian broad spectrum antibiotic (erythromycin) and complete vitamins and minerals. He accepts it readily consuming 15-40 mls each time. At first, he just sort-of flopped onto his side, almost paralyzed, neck contorted. Thought it was the end but decided he must have been sleeping because the next morning he was standing, though still exhibiting the neck torsion and the closed eye. 

I then brought him a small bowl of high quality parakeet seed mix with a bit of grit mixed in which he began to work on. However, he clearly has trouble controling his neck. The seed is flying and then disappearing but it is clearly a valiant, somewhat successful struggle for the poor sweetie. He is definitely producing feces. At first it was a small amount of green solids suspended in a large amount of water. Then, after a day of antibiotics and seed, it is green, large, well-formed suspended in a smaller amount of liquid at regular intervals. 

Then again, last night he flopped over onto his side and appeared paralyzed. I lifted him to place him in the nest of towels. He squeaked but couldn't fight me. His neck just hung in the contorted position. Again, I suspected the end but he's up again today, working on the seed! But still the neck torsion continues. As I approach, you can see he is trying to control his neck to look at me but ends up having to look at me upsided down through the right eye he only opens for this purpose. I have a very shallow dish with the med/vitamin solution available but I don't think he can deal with it so I continue with the syringe. 

So now, he's still around and I must consider the next step. I do hope this is not neurological. Am willing to commit to the long haul but now need guidance and probably a vet's opinion. However, I just moved to St. Louis (from SoCal, wish I was still there!) 3 months ago and only visited the vet once with my dog (only does canine/feline med). Yes, of course I brought all my animals with me!

First, does anyone have suggestions, possible diagnoses? Also, are there any bird rescues in the St. Louis region that can assist me? How about a good avian vet that won't laugh at me when I bring in this pigeon or charge me an outrageous amount. I am willing to drive a fair distant to get the right help. 

Thanks for your help and for being commited to these birds!!


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

If it is Paramyxovirus (PMV-1) there is no medication. The symptoms are extremely loose, watery droppings, lack of appettite, ruffled feathers, poor coordination and sometimes paralysis of the wings and legs. The neck twist is a symptom in advanced stages. Many but not all birds die.

If it is Paratyphoid (Salmonella) you have given an appropriate antibiotic perhaps. Hopefully, expert advice will be forthcoming. Hopefully, you will continue provide top notch food, water, and environment so she has a chance to make it. good luck!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

Thank you for taking this bird in! It is very important to keep him separate from your other birds, and don't transport droppings, dander, food or water that the PMV pigeon has touched to where you keep your other birds.

Vets and rehabilitators will recommend euthanasia THIS IS NOT NECESSARY!

The neck torsion is probably relatively mild when he is alone, so give him quiet, rest and warmth. If you watch him through a crack in the door you will probably see him "pull himself together".

I have three rescue pigeons with Paramyxovirus at the moment, plus three indoor birds and 30 rescues outside in an aviary. One of my PMV pigeons gets very contorted at the moment, it looks worse than it is.

I leave the PMV pigeons with seed in a deep dish so that they can pick it up with ease, plenty of fresh water, and keep an eye on their poops to make certain that they are eating. No medicines, but I add vitamins to their water twice a week. I also spray them with a mister twice a week. They are making a slow recovery. I have had one of them for four and a half weeks, the other 2 for two and a half weeks. I have nursed 5 pigeons through this disease in the past. Recovery can take 12 weeks, and there may very occasionally be partial recovery only.

There are another couple of current threads from people with PMV affected pigeons that you might like to read.

Cynthia 

[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited March 03, 2004).]


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Because of the situation with the right eye, this might be a concussion. Can you ask your vet to administer a steroid shot? It might help to alleviate any pressure on the nerves.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My Feefo had PMV and would damage her eye as a result of the neck torsion...it would scrape on the ground. So then she would would keep it closed.

Unfortunately neck torsion is _more often than not_ a symptom of PMV . Even though it _can _ be a symptom of paratyphoid. When you combine that with wing paralysis, falling over and the typical PMV poop then it the chances of it being PMV must be very, very high! 

Cynthia


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks, everyone for the input. Walter (my husband has named him- hope he's a boy but who knows) is quite energetic now. He now shows an effort to peck at me and flap wings when I approach, but still drops his neck into that terrible postion. Definitely a wild pigeon who I hope can go back to his native environment eventually. 

I suspected a concussion (he was right at the curb when I found him) but am not sure. The pmv diagnosis sounds the closest. I peek into the bathroom and find that he does calm down and sits still with his neck in a more natural position. I will continue the antibiotics for a full course at this point because discontinuing therapy in mid-treatment can be disasterous across all species, breeding drug-resistant strains. And have read elsewhere that bacterial infections can be a secondary illness to PMV. As for a steroid shot, I will wait a bit longer until I can figure out the vet situation. 

Any other pigeon lovers out there in the St. Louis Region? I want to assume full responsibility for his recovery and possible long term housing but I will be going to Europe in mid-April for 2 1/2 weeks. I usually get a college student (my husband is a university dean) to change feeders and water bottles on my other birds but do not want to leave the pigeon to such a novice and risk possible cross-contamination. I will be willing to drive long distances to get good convalescent pigeon care during my trip, so this would include Southwestern Illinois, Southern Missouri, and north to Chicago even. 

Also, if and when he recovers from the PMV (if that is what he has) will he cease to be contatgious? Will he be able to be re-released? I live with my husband in a converted downtown loft space (lofts are'nt just for pigeons!) that is pretty open (only the 2 bathrooms close off) with no yard or balcony or roof access. I have him isolated in our guest bathroom but this can only be a temp solution. He will have to come out to the sunlit bird area and live in his own cage if I am to keep him longer than a few months. 

Also, I searched the other discussions and saw someone mention that this disease does not crossover to the pet bird species. Any others concur? I will continue the isolation protocol at this point but need to think ahead to possible outcomes.

Thanks again all!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

The fact that the symptoms are worse when you are there is typical of PMV. The nervous symptoms are aggravated by stress and by dehydration.

I have also noticed that birds affected by PMV are pretty feisty. Usually sick birds just sit and huddle, but my PMV trio are forever fighting with each other. The first 5 I had were as bad. I couldn't believe that they would be able to fight with their heads so badly twisted, but they did!

My understanding is that the PMV that affects pigeons is pigeon specific and that by the time they show symptoms they have passed the worst stage as far as shedding the virus. However, the pigeon PMV developed from Newcastles Disease which affects poultry so I don't think it is worth the risk of exposing other species to a sick bird unnecessarily. It is also best to keep new birds isolated for 30 days just in case they are carrying any other diseases. 

I also understand that they do not continue to shed the virus after recovery. All my recoveries went in my aviary where they were joined by pigeons that had not suffered from PMV and had not been vaccinated. I have had no health problems at all develop in my aviary in the three years I have had it! Which, as far as I am concerned, is positive proof that they do not shed virus after recovery.

My original 5 patients all made a full recovery but Feefo had a relapse after 6 months which left her permanently disabled. I think that this is something that tends to happen with PMV. The vet said that it can leave permanent lesions.

BTW both measles and mumps are paramyxoviruses.

Cynthia


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Ah, yes, our childhood friends, the measles and mumps. Well, it seems we're on the money with the pmv diagnosis then and will continue as I am for the mean time. Walter is such a sweety, if feisty. 

Did you release any of your pmv patients back into the wild or did you find that they were permamently disabled? I wouldn't mind keeping him as a pet but we all know that if possible, the wild-born bird would be at its best in the natural environment, even after a lengthy recovery in captivity.


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## DaveD (Jul 9, 2001)

Hiya cyber, 

Thanks for taking in this bird that needs your help so badly. 

If you needed someone to watch your new friend while you travel, i'm located about 45 miles from st. louis. You can keep us in mind. 

Thanks, Dave

------------------
David and Kellie Dittmaier
Haven's Loft
www.geocities.com/havensloft


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Thank you so much! If he makes it then you will hear from me and I will even reimburse your costs. Thanks!!!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello there.
Thank you so very much for taking the time to care for this sweet pij.

The symptoms you described sound much like those of a PMV pigeon. 

As Cynthia mentioned, PMV symptoms will enhance with stress. 

Here are a couple other symptoms you might want to watch for. The pigeon may begin to walk backwards &/or in circles. As they attempt to eat they may 'swing' their beak back & forth. I would offer your visitor a fairly deep dish of seeds. You may find he is able to eat with more control. 

Here is an informative site which may help you. 
http://chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html 

Click on a symptom (e.g. Neck tortion) & a suggested diagnosis will appear on the right. Please bear in mind these are only suggestions but I have found them to be quite accurate.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. 
Cindy


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Thank you for your kind support. I happen to be quite a researcher when it comes to all of this. Before posting, I like to research the net and then came across that site. After reading the articles, I suspected pmv or bacterial infection, hence the anti-biotic therapy. But I needed the human experience as well. 

Thanks and I'm putting all this great info to use! Will keep you posted!

BTW, are you WhiteFeather who once lived in Mass. and worked with an herbalist named Gail Ulrich? If so, we know each other. If not, then pleased to meet you...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

You are so right about seeking out personal experience of PMV! I know that what I have seen doesn't quite match what I have read on the web. Now I can recognise PMV symptoms in feral pigeons when they are virtually invisible to the casual observer which allowed me to catch these early and bring them in to safety.

I didn't release any of my first PMV intake. In retrospect I know now that 3 at least would have coped in the wild, but there was no telling whether they would have a relapse or whether the stress of having to find their own food and water would cause the nervous symptoms to return and handicap them.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello CyberFinch

Cynthia is so right about 'hands on' experience with PMV pijjies. Almost two years ago, prior to a member suggesting I add a bit of ACV to the feral pigeons's water, I experienced, in my backyard, 12 pigeons displaying PMV symptoms in a two week span. One was having a grand time walking in circles, rearing his head back, etc., 'under' the sprinkler. Being unfamiliar with this problem I was thinking to myself, "How cute is that." However when he continued this behavior long after leaving the sprinkler area I began thinking this wasn't so cute after all & decided there must be something wrong with this pigeon.

I have 60+ feral pigeons that frequent my backyard daily & I now pay particular attention to 'PMV' symptoms. I am quite pleased to say though, since that experience, none of my pijjies have shown any PMV symptoms.

Although the final diagnosis of a pigeon may not be PMV, I initially treat every incoming pigeon as I would a suspected 'PMV' pigeon. First & foremost, I attempt lower their stress level by placing them on heat, in a secured box or carrier, in a warm, quite, low lit area of the house isolated from family traffic. 

With the pigeon secured, I can now observe it's behavior, & explore other diagnostic options. 

I hope your little patient had a restful night & is faring well today.
Looking forward to an update.
Cindy

"BTW, are you WhiteFeather who once lived in Mass. and worked with an herbalist named Gail Ulrich? If so, we know each other. If not, then pleased to meet you"

Nope, I have never lived in Mass. 
And I am pleased to meet you as well.


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## CyberFinch (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, Walter is doing better today. He is living in my guest shower stall which is perfect. It's got a solid glass door and I line the bottom with newspaper which I change several times a day and he's got a towel nest which he doesn't really use. When he's ready to sleep he just passes out wherever, looking dead with that contorted neck. I have various light sources which I vary in intensity to simulate a daylight cycle plus a little night light and will move a full spectrum light in there later today. 

He appears to work his seed pretty well and I've now witnessed him actually grab and swallow it. I haven't seen him do the water though, so I keep giving him water with a syringe a couple times a day. His poo has turned from bright green floating in water to a darker, khaki green with that whipped cream touch and far less water. And it is profuse! Obviously, there was a secondary intenstinal infection which seems to be subsiding with the antibiotics. 

He is feisty and cute but I am now concerned that it may be better to not return him to the wild if there is a chance of reoccurance. My husband is concerned that if our loft condo association finds out that we have a permanent pigeon guest, in addition to the pet birds, goldfish, and dog, we may get hassled. There are many dogs and cats in the building but you know how people freak once the numbers start adding up (and if they find out it's a pigeon!...), even if all are caged and kept spotless. Luckily, our place is large enough, with concrete floors and walls, and in the corner of the building so that noise doesn't make it out to the surrounding units and hall. 

I assume he will eventually need a cage big enough to fly around in and perhaps a friend, so I will have to carefully consider the options when the time comes. Meanwhile, he is in loving, capable hands.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*<Meanwhile, he is in loving, capable hands.>*

He certainly is! Some pigeons love gentle showers so he is in the right place if you want to try that!

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thank so much for the update. It's greatly appreciated.
Cindy


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