# bad string injury, foot may be lost?



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

so, the string injury was pretty fierce on this guy. he has a few friends just as bad downtown i couldnt catch, and i fear it may be too late for them.
I got the string off, the foot was swollen and yellow. The string just above foot wa soo deep, i decided to take home. I let him fly loose, and when i came in 2 days ago, he was bleeding bad. All the ruckus trying to catch him, with him flying and landing, flying and landing, on the bad foot, started the bleeding bad. I put some blood clogging stuff on it, and compressed it. I wrapped it that night and put him in a box. yesterday, the blood was all over him, he had still bled out.
I unwrapped the foot. The foot is so flimsy, it really is just bone there. I dont know if blood is getting into the foot or not, i'm trying to save the foot, or he'll be unreleasable, right?
What kind of meds, if any, does he need? I braced the leg/foot, so any moving wont be bending it at that point where string was.
what else can i do?

exceeded my phtot storage elswhere, so had to make a quick album (of ONE photo!)
sorry if pic isnt best, my camera SUCKS!
here's link to photo
http://public.fotki.com/xxscribblerxx/pigeons/


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

hi "x", 


Tape his Primarys together...have him in a small Cage for a week or two...on soft Towells...Neosporin on the Leg...


Hope for the best...

Foot is not shrivvelled or black, so...it has been getting circulation enough to stay alive, and may mend...he just needs to use it as little as possible for a while...



Phil
l v


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I would follow Phil's advice. The foot doesn't look it is bad right now, seems to be getting anough circulation. 
He'll be fine in a small cage where he can rest for a couple of weeks.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My Cinderella stepped out of a pink foot, so I am giving you a link to the thread as it covers what to do when a pigeon loses its foot.

I gave fluids subQ but you can give them orally. The important thing there is that the lost fluids are replaced.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10191&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I hope I never get a string injury bird in as I would be at a loss as to what to do and panic, that foot looks real bad but as everyone has said the foot isn't black. Poor baby my heart goes out to all birds in bad situations and this has to hurt so bad. I am keeping my fingers crossed for him. Thanks for helping this poor bird. 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Stuff like this, I usually massage in some 'Neosporin', and do so again every day for a while.

I do not know if it helps or not, but it might, or some of me thinks it does...

Massaging both sides of the String injury...and the Foot and Toes below the injury area.


They seem to do very well generally with having no infections anyway, from these String injurys, even with no antibiotics, but the Neosporin helps ensure that they would not, while also making for a lubed-medium for massaging the areas between the pads of one's finger tips...


Usually they seem to like the Leg and or Foot and Toes massages too...

I would too, I am sure..!


Lol...


Too, 'Asprin' in apppropriate doses of course, might just be worth considering for these, since in theory it would help the Circulation to succeed better through the constricted area to reach the Foot and Tows and so on...


Phil
l v


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Wow, that poor foot.  Never dealt with one that bad, mostly just with toes that either turn black and fall off, or get better. I would go with Neosporin and the tape as Phil says, and hope for the best, try to keep him quiet and contained so he can't run about. With feet injuries that tend to bleed a lot, I have sometimes placed the bird in a tub with a few inches of cornstarch or flour in it, so wherever they walk, the powder covers the ankle and keeps it clotted. This has been in some situations where I couldn't hold the bird constantly or it was a hard wound to wrap. Good luck with this poor fellow.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok Phil, what would the dosing be on the aspirin?
yes, poor guy, i feel bad, i really hope the foot heals!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if the foot breaks off then aspirin would be kinda' bad as it's an anti-coagulant. Lemme' see if I can find a past thread...

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, go read this one, especially the post that this link will take you to:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=127227

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok Phil, what would the dosing be on the aspirin?
> yes, poor guy, i feel bad, i really hope the foot heals!



Hi "x", 


A 'flake' which is the size of a small 'Pin Head'...and must be actual 'Asprin' and nothing else...


Pigey is THE MAN on this matter...


But yes, if there is bleeding, or imminent danger of bleeding, probably the Aspirin would make the bleeding worse, so...bear that in mind...


My thought was that the leg there, so long as he stays off of it as much as possible, being kept in a small Cage with a deep soft Cloth rumpled bottom...with frequent 'Neosporin' massages of the Toes and Foot AND Leg itself...to encourage circulation, and, to encourage the flesh there to ease back 'in' to the deep 'ring' if possible...

If chilly there, a Heating Pad under a little less towell padding, so his Feet are able to be definitely warm, might be good too...since that also will tend to promote an increase in Blood Circulation to the Foot...


Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I suppose the best way to try and get the local inflammation down would be to use the Preparation H (it's a hydrocortisone cream, actually) on the swollen part. That's really what you'd be using the aspirin for, anyhow, so local treatment would probably make more sense for this presentation. It'll probably be a miracle if he doesn't lose the foot and it's certainly possible that he could break it off just like happened to jazaroo with that one bird. He could bleed out real quick in that circumstance. If he's going to keep the foot then the trick is going to be making sure that he doesn't have a chance to put much pressure on it for the next several weeks.

Pidgey


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2007)

Whenever I encounter this where there is a possibility of the foot prematurely falling off and causing the bird to bleed out is to use a SAM Splint. This is a metal but maleable splint that can be cut to size and used to firmly hold the bone in place while the foot either heals or dries up and falls off. One would form the splint by attaching one end to one side of the leg above the wound, draw it under the foot and attaching the other end to the other side of the leg also above the wound. There can be no slack or the splint would be useless.
One place to buy it is here. It's the one on top of the page.

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/servlet/Categories?category=Original+SAM+Splints


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

PP, is that made for people? Do you cut it to size?
Is there something else you use as a splint in a pinch, if you dont have that right then and need something ASAP, cant wait for shipping, etc.?


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## Ferdabrds (Dec 21, 2007)

*Hi from Colorado!*

Hello pigeonperson,

Thanks for linking to Rescue Essentials, which I helped start and still maintain an affiliation. 

First, for avian applications, a SAM finger splint is MUCH cheaper and should be adequate unless you're using it on a flamingo. Or stork. Or heron. You get the idea. We were giving them away for free up until a couple days ago, and if xxmoxiexx wants one, I'll get it sent: just PM me your address and I'll get it taken care of. You can cut them to size, but I've seen the aluminum get a bit ragged doing that (not a good thing), so ya gotta use a real sharp tool and cut carefully.

Second... a question: I have some occasional visitors here (we're in a very rural areal with high desert pinon forest transitioning into a riparian environment - LOTS -o-birds!) that I've identified as ring-necked pigeons. They forage on the ground around the sunflower seed feeder, but I can't tell if they're actually eating the seed or ar simply attracted by all the other birds. Anyone?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

WOW! Pidgey, i just read that thread, how amazing! Jazaroo is something, huh? Is that bird with a home now, or was it released? What do you think of releasing pigeons with "stumps??" That is what i'm worried about. 
that is just an amazing story, cauterizing the stump, that pigeon was a fighter, huh?
So, Pidgey, do you think i should try to put him in a sling? As it is now, he's in a small box, with food and water right in front of his face, and i change the paper towels 2x day so he can just lay down. I have a home made splint on for now. Just so he doesnt use and bend that wound any more.
So, anything else?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ferdabrds, have you taken a pic of these pigeons? Oh, i'll go google it to see if i can see a pic! It's amazing, i used to think there was ONE type of pigeon, before i got into this forum, now to realize how many there really is, wow!
ferdabrds, thanks, that would be great, i'll Pm my address! Thats really nice of you to offer, i've "met," some of the nicest people on this site!
hmm, cant find a link to a pic of the ring necked pigeon, is the ring necked pigeon the same as the ring necked dove? As i know a pigeon IS a dove, so i dont know??


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2007)

Hi Ferdabrds,
How in the world did you connect this site to my recommendation and order? Is it pure coincidence?

The SAM Splint can be cut into strips and one 36" Roll can last for a very long time since the strips can be reused. To make sure the splint edges don't cut into the skin, I wrap tape around the formed splint.

The birds you are probably seeing are the related ringneck doves. They could also be wood pigeons. We would need a picture to tell for sure.

Moxie, if there is any time for you to wait, can you take Ferdabrds up on that very generous offer.

If you can't wait, the second best suggestion is to go to a hardware store and purchase a small length of coated electrical wire that is difficult for the bird to bend but which you can. Shape the wire in the form of a long rectangle with one open side and bend the bottom so that it just fits the underside of the foot. Tape the edges of the wire that will have contact with the leg above the wound so there will be no chance of it cutting into the skin. Again, there can be no slack or the splint will not do what it's supposed to do which is to connect the foot to the leg until it decides what to do.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> So, Pidgey, do you think i should try to put him in a sling? As it is now, he's in a small box, with food and water right in front of his face, and i change the paper towels 2x day so he can just lay down. I have a home made splint on for now. Just so he doesnt use and bend that wound any more.
> So, anything else?


Me? I'd tend to do what Pigeonperson's suggesting--something to protect that foot from breaking off. I wouldn't have even guessed it could until reading Jaz's experience that time. I wouldn't use a sling, though, because they usually make pretty serious attempts to get out of those unless their legs are broken. I can well imagine a bird snagging a foot on some portion of the sling and pushing hard enough to snap the weakened tarsometatarsus. Better to splint it and keep the bird in an area that's too big to push against anything and too small to develop any significant velocity in.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ferdabrds said:


> Second... a question: I have some occasional visitors here (we're in a very rural areal with high desert pinon forest transitioning into a riparian environment - LOTS -o-birds!) that I've identified as ring-necked pigeons. They forage on the ground around the sunflower seed feeder, but I can't tell if they're actually eating the seed or ar simply attracted by all the other birds. Anyone?


Perhaps they are Band Tailed Pigeons .. do they have yellow legs and feet?

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Yes, PP, that was a very generous offer from Ferdabrds! I sent her my info, and think i'll splint like you suggested until then! 
Thats why I said i have met some of the nicest people on this site, everyone here is for the pigeons, whether it's helping one you found yourself, or one a new member found in Canada, everyone does their part. Usually, with rescue places, an animal in a different shelter is out of sight, out of mind. So if a different shelter needs help with an animal, there isnt many other places rushing to the rescue. Maybe not all, but the few i have been at. Granted, cats, digs, ferrets, bunnies, etc.
So, that said, i just appreciate all the help everyone has given to ME with the pieons i have found! I know that every single one would be dead if there wasnt this site to refer to, and the generous nature of everyone here too!
My first bird, Reti AND Pidgey sent me meds/supplies, everything i would need. Pidgey even sent me a few dollars in case i would need anything else after the fact. Well, that bird didnt make it, and both Reti and Pidgey said to keep the supplies, everything, just put it to use someday, and that show of kindness made me DETERMINED to find another hurt pigeon and help it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And you've been very _busy_ ever since...

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes Dad, i have been, thanks to you! LOL!!


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## Ferdabrds (Dec 21, 2007)

*Splints*

Hello xxmoxiexx,

I put a couple of SAM finger Splints in the US mail for you today... given the time of year, I don't know how long it will take to get there.

Please familiarize yourself with their use first. You can go to this document for good instructions. It's all about humans, but the principles are the same.

I hope this does some good for that - or some other - hurt animal.

Merry Christmas!

- Jorian

Rescue Essentials


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## Ferdabrds (Dec 21, 2007)

*Hats off to all of you!*

PP et al,

Y'all are GOOD! I went back to my reference books, and finally found those birds in my five hundred pound Audubon Encyclopedia. But still can't believe it.

You were right, PP, they are called ringed turtle doves... BUT - they can't possibly be truly wild birds. The book says they were a species domesticated out of African stock, and that there are now "wild" breeding populations in Los Angeles and St Petersburg FL. 

Well - I'm nowhere near either place, and our climate is far more harsh. There are no reports listed with Audubon of any wild ones in this region. Maybe someone is "keeping" them somewhere nearby, and they just come over to visit and clean up around the seed feeders? They certainly answer to all the descriptions, and match the color plate. Slightly larger and quite a bit paler than your standard issue mourning dove, sandy colored with a thin dark ring on the neck, most prominent in the back. Sort of a long, rounded tail with lighter corners and a thinner build than most pigeons. I'll try to get a snapshot when I see them again.

This is an awesome site, folks. I'm gonna just take my time reading threads and learning from you for a while. 

And NO - (there are no coincidences) it was no accident that I showed up here after you posted the link to rescue-essentials. Several people clicked that link, which caused Pigeon Talk to show up in a Google report on referring sites. So I backtracked out of sheer curiosity (it's not like RE always has a lot to do with pigeons, after all!) and found this thread. And reading the subject matter made me heartsick enough to want to get involved.

It's good to know there are so many people out there who share my weakness for innocent critters. 

Very best of the season to all of you!

-J


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Ferdabrds said:


> PP et al,
> 
> Y'all are GOOD! I went back to my reference books, and finally found those birds in my five hundred pound Audubon Encyclopedia. But still can't believe it.
> 
> ...


We are certainly happy to have you here, and thank you for your help. Ringed turtle doves, or ringneck doves, are common sights here in California, as wild birds as well as domesticated. I'm not sure how common they are to your area, I would think it gets pretty cold there for them to survive in the wild. Unlike many pigeons, they do not have homing instincts and the domesticated doves, at least, are not quite so..._intelligent_, though there are always exceptions. It would be a rare thing to have someone nearby you that lets their doves out to free-fly. So perhaps they escaped a home, or most likely, are more native than I think to your area.  Now I'm interested to see who knows about where the doves live. . .more fun than just looking it up.  

Moxie, keep up the great work!! How can you go wrong with the experts giving advice.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Ferdabrds said:


> They certainly answer to all the descriptions, and match the color plate. Slightly larger and quite a bit paler than your standard issue mourning dove, sandy colored with a thin dark ring on the neck, most prominent in the back. Sort of a long, rounded tail with lighter corners and a thinner build than most pigeons. I'll try to get a snapshot when I see them again.


This is the species which started off as escapees in Florida. Ours is a little smaller than most (she'd been hand raised before brought to us) but is a 'wild' Eurasian Collared Dove. I recall reading they had even been spotted as far west as Texas.

John


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Looks exactly like our ringnecks here lol. I wonder how any names there are for these doves.


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## Ferdabrds (Dec 21, 2007)

*Birds of a color*

Hi JohnD,

That looks... close. But ours are about the same color as the depicted bird's back, and seem (from memory - last I saw of them was in August or Sept) slimmer than the bird in the picture. Not that I'm looking on a color-calibrated monitor or anything... but the picture in the Audubon book looked like a dead ringer (no pun, really!) for our visitors.

Very interesting learning about the ranges of the various pigeon/dove species. Does a lot of cross-breeding go on in the wild populations? I saw a sinister article that warned that ringed turtle doves were "displacing" mourning doves in some areas, and wondered what that really meant. Out-competing them for food/nesting sites? Genetically "absorbing" them? Both? Neither?

I hope moxie's patient is doing well.

Happy holidays all!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I found a site that mentions the similarities between the two species:



> Eurasian Collared-Dove similar but has different song, darker primaries, grayer plumage, larger size, longer tail and more conspicuous white on the neck. Mourning Dove darker with pointed tail and lacks collar.


This site has an audio of the collared dove's song:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/c/collareddove/index.asp

Usually when they start suggesting that a non-native species is displacing a native species it means they are taking their food and breeding places, which spells bad news for the newcomer.

Cynthia


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Names for ring-necked dove*

Maryjane wondered how many names there were for ring-necked dove.

I have found one very useful feature of *WIKIPEDIA*.

Example: you need a word translated, or you know the name of something in a foreign language. For example, someone talks about a Türkentaube in Germany. 

You go to Wikipedia, click on the appropriate language in the panel on the left, type in your search term, then click on English in language panel. You get a similar or corresponding entry on your subject. 

British PT members can look up corresponding brand names for generic medications available in the U.S. and other countries, and vice-versa. 

The German Wikipedia web page has a colored map showing the spread of the ring-necked dove from Turkey to the rest of Europe, color-coded to show the years of the spread. 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türkentaube



> _Die Türkentaube (Streptopelia decaocto) ist eine Vogelart aus der Familie der Tauben (Columbidae). Sie hat ihren Namen deshalb, weil die Art erst seit den 1930er Jahren aus Südosten nach Mittel- und inzwischen auch nach Nordeuropa eingewandert ist._


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Collared_Dove



> The Eurasian Collared Dove, Streptopelia decaocto, also called the Eurasian Collared-Dove or simply the Collared Dove, is one of the great colonisers of the avian world. Its original range was warmer temperate regions from southeastern Europe to Japan. However, in the twentieth century it expanded across the rest of Europe, reaching as far west as Great Britain by 1953, and Ireland soon after. It also now breeds north of the Arctic Circle in Scandinavia. It is not migratory.
> It was introduced into the Bahamas in the 1970s and spread to Florida by 1982. Its stronghold in North America is still the Gulf Coast, but it is now found as far south as Veracruz, as far west as California, and as far north as British Columbia and the Great Lakes. Its impact on native species is as yet unknown; it appears to occupy an ecological niche between that of the Mourning Dove and Rock Pigeon; some have suggested that its spread represents exploitation of a niche made available by the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring-necked_Dove



> The Ring-Necked Dove (Streptopelia capicola), also known as the Cape Turtle Dove and the Half-Collared Dove, is a widespread and abundant bird in the bush, savannah, farmlands, and woodlands of southern and eastern Africa. Their name comes from a black patch of feathers on the back of their necks. The rest of their feathers are a pale brownish-grey, with darker colors on their backs. They also have white tips on the end of their tail feathers.


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapturteltaube

(Picture available at this link).



> Die Kapturteltaube (Streptopelia capicola) ist eine im südlichen und östlichen Afrika beheimatete Taubenart.



Since I so often need to research German terms and words, I need to use different sources. The internet is a great research tool, and Wikipedia is very useful since it is free.

Larry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Example: you need a word translated, or you know the name of something in a foreign language. For example, someone talks about a Türkentaube in Germany.
> 
> You go to Wikipedia, click on the appropriate language in the panel on the left, type in your search term, then click on English in language panel. You get a similar or corresponding entry on your subject.


Good tip, Larry.

Just shows how perceptions change, speaking of the Collared Dove. When the first pair were found to be breeding in eastern England in the 50s, it was hailed as a wonderful example of natural colonization, and they were a birdwatchers' delight. Now they are classified as what used to be referred to as a 'pest species', alongside ferals, woodpigeons, crows and others.  

John


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

*Update on pigeon*

Ferdabrds, i wanted to tell you i got the finger splints, and thanks so much! It is working great! I made a splint out of some other stuff, and covered the foot in cardboard so he wouldnt walk at all on it.
I wanted to update on the pigeon. The cut into foot is still very bad, and the whole foot is very flimsy at that point. I am wondering if it will ever heal to a point that there is flesh there? Also, some of the swelling has gone down. It is still VERY bad, but i need advice on something. He's got some yellow spots, and some of those spots are leaking yellow clearish fluid. Does he need an antibiotic? I really believe he does, but i need to know what kind, and what the dosing for it is. Let me see about getting pics...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Are the yellow spots on the leg/foot?
Have you put topical antibiotic on it? Like neosporin cream.
Also describe the fluid, is it thick, pus like? Thin yellow fluid sounds more like lymph. 

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, what is lymph?
Yes, i've been putting neosporin, but how often? 
the yellow spots are on the foot, only below where the deep, very deep cut is, all the way around leg, right above the foot.
Also, the yellow spots, the skin seems to be coming off on those spots. The fluid is thin, yellow tint, more clear yellow. It dries up and forms flakes of yellow. I have the foot splinted, covered, so i've only been putting stuff on every few days, like every 2-4 days. Washing it off too.
I am worried it is infected, but am not sure at all...


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## Ferdabrds (Dec 21, 2007)

*Nice!*

Moxie,

Glad to hear that the finger splint works. 

And my thanks to those pigeon talkers who visited our website after it was linked earlier.

(If anyone has suggestions about how to improve that site, they are very welcome!)

Happy New Year all!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Doesn't sound like infection, but rather some local reaction. Lymph is a fluid circulating throughout the body. it is important for the immune system, it clears the body the toxins.
Can you post a pic of the leg/foot?

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

thanks so much Ferdabrds, for the splints, that was so sweet of you. 
Reti, here's a link to a pic of the foot.
http://public.fotki.com/xxscribblerxx/pigeons/pigeonscatsmischous.html
tell me what you think of it...
You see the part that is cut very deep from string? Will that ever heal into a strong leg capable of holding the foot on again? I am very VERY worried about it.
The swelling has gone down, for a while i thought the skin was going to split!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That looks pretty bad. I doubt the skin will grow back as the edges seem necrotic.
I think what could be done in this case is to have the sking and necrotic tissue excised and then maybe some healthy tissue will grow and cover the area. A skin graft would be ideal, but my vets don't do it on birds, so I don't know about other vets.
Now the foot looks pretty bad, and I tend to think it is more of an infection rather than lymphedema (swelling due to obstructed lymph). 
Is he on any antibiotics?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

nope, thats what i want to know, can i put him on antibiotics? At the beginning, everyone agreed the foot was coming off, and it didnt need meds, well, i think he needs them now, so what do i give, how much, etc. You agree Reti, he needs antibiotics, rigjht?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yeah, I think he does need them now, the foot just doesn't look good.
What do you have? I would give Baytril or Cipro.
You don't have any injectable antibiotics, do you?

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

umm, Reti, nope, no injectable antibiotics. does he need it in that form?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Would be better, but if you don't have them you can give po.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You'd have to use antibiotics that work in necrotic tissue and Trimethoprim/Sulfa works for that (Divet tablets). It's possible that the only circulation that foot's getting is though the tendon channel. It needs more return circulation than it's getting. There wouldn't be the buildup of fluids that you're seeing if it weren't getting anything. What kinda' needs to happen is a debriding of a small portion of that groove where the string injury was and the skin pulled back together so that the underlying tissue meets again. It would still need some time for the system to rebuild ducting back to the body proper.

Think of it like this: the body's still pumping vital supplies into the foot, perhaps at a reduced rate but into the foot nonetheless. This fluid circulates at a higher pressure on the supply side, is used by the tissues and then returned to the body at a lower pressure. In this instance, the return lines are severed and sealed off so that the excess pressure buildup eventually starts leaking out of the tissues. 

Somehow, you need to keep that groove soft enough that tissues can advance and heal back together. That'd normally be vet work.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, i see your point. I dont know about a good vet up here, that wont cost $500 an hour or something like that!
I've given the flagyl and the divet. Braced the foot so it doesnt break off. I dont know what else to do for now? I mean, if he goes to a vet, doesnt the infection need to be fought off first?
Sorry i'm just now replying to this, i've had the worst ear infection plus the flu pretty bad. I've slept more in the last 5 days than i have for a month, i swear!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the Trimethoprim/Sulfa is probably going to do pretty good in that respect. I guess what you might try is keeping some antibiotic ointment in that crack, covered by a plastic bandaid (one that doesn't breathe too much). That way, perhaps the natural scabbing may stay softened up enough that the tissue borders can advance together. It might be possible to traction the two surfaces together with some kind of strapping and some superglue. You'd have to get the stuff cleaned out first (very lightly) and then get it pulled together just enough that they edges touch.

If that worked, it'd take some time for the underlying bone to repair itself, too. I think that if all were to go well, you're looking at a couple of months at least.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

will silversulfadene work better then neosporin? I was wondering about the superglue.
The yellow spots, from having the foot braced and the skin totally covered, are coming off, it is like wet and soft there, with the yellow stuff coming off. is that good or bad?
I had to brace it different, because of where the cut is, the finger brace wasnt working too well. I had to tape it tightly there, then use some plastic stick thingys to tape to the foot, to brace the leg to the foot, keep them aligned, then i put thin cardboard around the foot so he will step on the cardboard instead of foot.
I will take it off today to clean it again and get some pics up.
Pidgey, i have some more meds, remember that list i sent you from Nona? So anything else you think he needs....
So, do you think the infection needs to be fought off before anything else? Should i forget the brace and just superglue it?
I'm out for a few hours now, i have to go to the doctor for myself! I'll check in more later....


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2008)

Moxie,
Don't use superglue. It is not formulated for skin and will do severe damage. If the bird inhales any of the vapors, it will do severe damage to the lungs. 3M makes a superglue specifically for skin and it's called Vetbond. Another product is called Dermabond. 
Even though I wrote about superglue, you can't use it on a cut as deep as the on the one you're working with. If this can heal (which I doubt), a glue is not the way to go. Vetbond is used to glue over skin that has already been sutured. If you put superglue in, the skin will become even more damaged. The tissues will not be able to grow together. You'll be sealing infection in and it will have no place to go It's just a bad way to go.
You're between a rock and a hard place with this injury. If you were to take the bird to a vet, it would be nothing short of a complete amputation of the entire leg. No vet that I know of would amputate just the foot. You would be told that amputating only part of the leg would be dangerous in that there is too much of a chance of infection. Then, you tell the vet that you see many birds with only one foot walking around and they will give you every argument in the book in favor of amputating the entire leg and will not amputate just the foot.
So, now you have a bird that will not be releasable if the entire leg is amputated but the alternative is that you have a bird that has a useless piece of meat for a foot that is a source for major infection until it comes off. 
If it were me, I would keep the bird on antibiotics, brace the foot and hope for the best. You could still lose him from blood loss or infection and if you take him to a vet, he would be without a leg. It's a bad spot to be in right now.

As far as using Metronadazole, I wouldn't use it. It's only good for anaerobic bacteria and the big one to watch out for here is a staph infection in the tissues. I would use Doxycycline which hits anearobic, gram positive and gram negative infections plus Nystatin to protect against yeast because he's going to be on antibiotics for quite a while.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The silvadene is great in healing wounds even deep ones. We use it in the hospital for 3rd degree burns and and bed sores that go deep into the bone. The results are fantastic.
If you have any use it, if not I wil see to send you some.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, i have some, thanks though! Someone, a member here, who is an absolute angel, sent me a bunch of stuff she doesnt need anymore...
There sure are a lot of those darn angels on this site though! Reti, cough cough! Pidgey, Nona, cough! LOL!!


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