# Baby stopped eating.



## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I've had him/her for a week now and all seemed well but this morning he's not eating. he came for the seed with the other baby but just sat at the side of it sort of fluffed up. I've brough him inside (it's not warm here in the UK) put him in a cage with food and water and a hot water bottle which he can go on or off. I felt what I think is his crop but I'm not sure-anyway there are no seeds I can feel. No poops just passing water. He was eating OK yesterday. Any suggestions please?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It's good you brought him inside.. Please provide him a heating pad if you have, set it on low and covered with a towel. If a heating pad is not available you can fill up a water bottle with warm water, wrap in a towel and put it next to him.
Do you have a vet you can take the bird to?
Until then then keep the bird hydrated, don't force feed him yet until we figure what is wrong with him.
You can check his mouth, see if there is anything abnormal in there. Also check for any wounds or any other abnormalities on his body.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Pigeonpoo,


Yes, as Reti suggests, get him situated with an electric Heating Pad, and no air drafts on him...

Refresh my memory if you would - how old is this Bird?

If neophyte self feeders, they should be stuffing themselves to the gills, where their Crops would in fact be conspicuously full...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Ok, he's already on a hot water bottle. No injuries that I can see but he does have feather lice (have ordered treatment for that and it should arrive tomorrow) I didn't think that made them ill though. I've just checked on him and his mouth is nice and pink and clear. I can feel the crop and it has a few small seed in now - no big maize or peas though but, I've never yet seen him eat these. Still no poops.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I thought that he was 21 days when I got him (from looking at the photos) one week on and he still has a few bits of yellow fluff showing so I suppoes maybe 24 days?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The seeds you feel in the crop, you think he ate them now or are they from two days ago?
For just in case give him water with a syringe and one drop of olive oil in it. Even if he has not an impacted crop the water and olive oil won't hurt him.
When done with that and he starts pooping you can give him water with ACV, one tablespoon in a gallon of water.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I would also recommend a drop of colloidal silver down the throat and a dose of some good gut bacteria.

If this youngster has been under stress he may need a good bolster of good gut bacteria to take care of anything in his gut to fight off anything that might be brewing in his intestines.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Ok, given him the water and oil. Poor baby that was awful, he'll never trust me again - what a battle! I wrapped him in a towel, so just his little head poked through, and forced his beak open! He's certainly not too ill to struggle! His droppings are still water with bubbles in. I'll leave him in peace for an hour or so and see how he is then. Would it be a good idea to bring the other baby in? I have noticed that they don't start to eat until they see another bird eating. I don't know whether that is fear of me or some sort of conditioning thing?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi pigeonpoo,

I'm sorry to hear the youngster is not feeling well. I would not put them together in case the youngster is contagious.

The bubbles means there is an issue going on, gas perhaps, maybe something else.

Why don't you try the colloidal silver in case of infection, just a drop down the throat?..., and the probiotics will definitely be an asset for any tummy upsets as well as building gut bacteria to fight off foreign invaders.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Yes I'll try the silver - just had a thought - I gave them all wheatgerm yesterday and used olive oil to bind it to the seed - could that be what has affected him? The others all seem ok.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As you're in Lancashire, I'd talk to Cynthia (cyro51) and John (John_D) as they're in the UK and know more about the availability of meds and other supplies there as well as the likely ailments that are in your area. John's in West Sussex and Cynthia isn't too far from there, I think. You may have another issue like coccidiosis or something like that. I'll email this thread to both of them and see if they can start advising you.

Okay, I've notified them.

Pidgey


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Thanks Pidgey. Crop still has seed in. Poos are still liquid with a bit of white in them now.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If that white starts getting to be too much it will signal that the bird may be dehydrating too much. They don't last long like that. It could be possible that he has an obstruction in the crop that will need to be removed. Do you have a vet?

Pidgey


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

No avian vets around here unfortunately. Poops look better though. Still watery but green and yellowish matter in them now. This little chap is quite perky apart from not eating.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

As Pidgey says, I'm in Sussex and Cynthia in Norfolk, so not close enough to offer any practical help. For crop problems we have sometimes used Nystatin (I believe for yeast infections), but you would need to take young pigeon to a vet to get that. If crop canker was suspected then Spartrix can be used, and that is often available from corn stores/feed stores which cater for pigeon fanciers, else online from Boddy & Ridewood. I would certainly see the vet in any case where the problem is not yet diagnosed and could be one of a few different things, so that (if s/he knows bird problems) the right medication can be given.

JOhn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Perkiness isn't always a good sign. Sometimes it's more of an expression of desperation or panic due to the beginnings of starvation that seems more like enthusiasm. Some illnesses don't cause the clinical symptom usually called "depression" but there's a problem nonetheless.

When there's no food going through the gut, occasional blobs of bile will come out that are green, usually a darker green. If they look more like oil paint or thinned oil paint with no real substance, then it's not a particularly good sign. 

I read a post once where a fellow had a young pigeon that had something stuck in the bottom of the crop. He was able to maneuver the obstuctive object to a point just under the skin where he was able to surgically remove it and sew the wound back up. It turns out that the object was a whole peanut, probably one that had been roasted. Another typical food item that can cause obstruction is a large sunflower seed still in the hull. Just something to think about.

Pidgey


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Oh dear. Yes the poop was dark green and yes, I do feed my birds a few peanuts as a treat but, I've never seen the yougsters take any larger seeds. So, it's ok to try and move seed around in the crop? I know a guy who races pigeons, I shall take him over tomorrow. It may be that he also knows of an avian vet.


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## fred128 (May 21, 2001)

Bubbles in droppings = fermentation = yeast in the digestive tract=yeast infection


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## fred128 (May 21, 2001)

Pleaae read this article on collodial silver before you poison your birds.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What Fred's saying is that the most likely probability is a yeast overgrowth and the resultant "slow crop" or "crop stasis." The most likely candidate is candida for which Nystatin is the usual drug of choice. It really isn't quite like a normal drug, though, because it is not absorbed from the gut to go into the system. It stays in the gut and just kills yeast. 

Yeast is a normal component of the flora and fauna but can overgrow for various reasons and can become a serious problem when it does. In young birds, it can slow or stop the flow of food through the system and become a life-threatening illness.

Often, in such a case, a vet will empty the crop of stale contents to "start over" and give Nystatin to kill the yeast down some. I don't know where you're going to get it there but when you need it, you need it. You could call your local vets to see if they have it or can write a prescription through a normal pharmacy.

There is also a regimen utilizing Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) to help curb the yeast that involves giving it water with 1 Tablespoon/gallon of the ACV. That might help but I'm not personally familiar with that method.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, it looks like the ACV is more of a preventative or a way to keep the gut bacteria (actually all through the system) in better balance than it is for a true curative although some have used it that way on here. But read this anyway:

http://www.cagenbird.com/candida.htm

There's a link at the bottom of that page that goes on further about candidiasis. Also, that page is about other birds and sometimes drug dosing is different for the various species.

Fred, by the way, is the rehabber that performed that surgery to remove the swollen peanut (the bird lived) so he's no slouch.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

fred128 said:


> Pleaae read this article on collodial silver before you poison your birds.
> 
> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html



Hi Fred,

1. Long term use of any medication is toxic. That is why livers become toxic, swollen and need detox, because of overuse of drugs.

2. It is safe low concentrations of 10ppm confirmed by the EPA.

3. They put it in babies eyes after they are born.

4. My rehabber is using it now and for over 30 years successfully with wild life rehab, and I have used it successfully.


Please check this website:www.sovereignsilver.info


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pidgey said:


> Okay, it looks like the ACV is more of a preventative or a way to keep the gut bacteria (actually all through the system) in better balance than it is for a true curative although some have used it that way on here. But read this anyway
> Pidgey



Great website, Pidgey.


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## fred128 (May 21, 2001)

Treesa,
Treatment with silver has been around since the time of blood letting. It's an old remedy. I know it's used in baby's eyes and is a topical on dressings for external wounds.
The thing that worries me is that there are no definitive studies on internal use. It is a heavy metal and that in itself may be a dead giveaway of it's potential harm to a any system. We do know that people whom have taken excessive amounts wound up with permanent gray-silver skin. I can't swear to it but I think I've read that it has caused kidney damage in humans. 
The FDA has never approved it and the Physicians Desk Reference gives very little or no information on its efficacy in people when taken internally. I don't think I would ever want to try this on myself and if I won't take it internally, why would I ever give it to a bird? 
It's possible that it may have some short term benefit but what are the long term effects to a system? Aresenic given in small quantities doesn't show its effects immediately but it will eventually kill and I'm concerned about the possibility that this may run a similar course. 
I can't claim to know more about this than anyone else because, to my knowledge there has never been a sanctioned laboratory study of this treatment given internally.
Right now, I believe that this is outside the parameters of conventional medical science and so I'm reluctant to test it on a pigeon. This is not a topic that should be pursued because emotions can run hot and heavy between believers and non believers but here is the link to the PDF and it doesn't even recommend that external use is safe:

http://tinyurl.com/87alx


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

If the baby isn't better yet then it should go to a vet, he can empty and flush the crop as well as establish what started the problem. 

I know that you have already tried olive oil, but liquid paraffin might be a better lubricant as it passes straight through the body without any of it being absorbed. My vet advised me to give one drop and gently massage. Resting the crop on a hot water bottle also helps.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

This is not a topic that should be pursued because emotions can run hot and heavy between believers and non believers but here is the link to the PDF and it doesn't even recommend that external use is safe:




I feel exactly the same way as you do, Fred.

So, please let everyone decide for themselves.

I have and other people use it in rehab, successfully, you haven't used it. Anything used in access can cause problems, and those examples were extreme over-use of the product. It is used short term, not abused, or overused.
Sovereign Silver is an extremely safe silver, check out the web site.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Any medication, even our good ol' aspirin causes complications if used in excess. 
I've used colloidal silver for a stuborn, recuring eye infection in a bird. All previous treatments had failed and the po treatment I was given by my vet caused almost fatal complications. 
After one week of colloidal silver in the eye and one drop po, the bird is free of any infections for three months now.

Where I went to medical school we had limited access to antibiotics and we often had to rely on natural, herbal, homeopathic treatments. Colloidal silver was widely used. I've never seen complication from it when used short term and it did help in treating mild infections.

Reti


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Sorry all for not getting on sooner today - it's been pretty hectic. A pigeon fancier looked and advised the crop was static (ir something like that) we gave half a teaspoon of bicarb in a syringe of water and the bird brought up some crop contents, repeated this til the crop felt empty (twice more) There were a lot of swollen seeds in the crop, pretty smelly too! He has now had some live yogurt and soaked dog biscuits via syringe to get some food in him. Later he is to have stewed apple - apparently this will sort out canker - and I have to give him water with a pinch of salt and sugar added fairly often. He is quite strong and on the hot water bottle but is not yet taking taking any water on his own.

Thank you all sooo much for your help yesterday. I was in such a panic - I feel soo responsible for these babies being taken from their moms too soon.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Pigeonpoo - so glad to hear your pij is doing better.

Would love to hear more info on the stewed apples for canker. Could you give us more info? Have never heard of this before but if it works, then great!

maggie


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I don't think stewed apples have any effect on canker but I have heard that it is a good remedy for sour crop. 

Cynthia


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I don't know if this baby has canker or sour crop but, he is definitely better for having his crop emptied. There is no sign of canker in his throat but I suppose that it could be out of sight. I just hope that I can keep him/her hydrated and fed until he starts to fend for himself. I'll let you all know how we go on.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I Pigeonpoo,


I have been pleased with the results of treating slow-Crop or Crop stasis with letting them have the ACV Water. (One tablespoon of raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water) . This seemed to clear the problem up in about a week or so.

In the mean time, such Birds may need to eat, or to be fed. Usually I have fed them small meals of very easily digested formula, doing this via soft small catheter directly into their Crop.

Sour Crop or Slow Crop tends to discourage their appetite to eat.

'Stewed Apple' may represent a way of altering the ph of their Crop, which the ACV of course will do more directly.

Candida will slow their entire digestive system down.

Good luck !

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

fred128 said:


> *Pleaae read this article on collodial silver before you poison your birds.*
> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html
> This is not a topic that should be pursued because emotions can run hot and heavy between believers and non believers


It isn't necessary to get into a 'heated' discussion over this. 
The claim made that we are poisoning our pigeons if Colloidal Silver is used has not been supported by factual, documented evidence. 

Given that Treesa, her rehabber & Reti have had personal experiences using Colloidal Silver without complications would indicate, thus far, this product is safe, if used properly & in moderation.

The website noted below documents *positive results*, & supports, the use of Colloidal Silver with regard to birds. 

http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Arts/Health arts/Colloidal/colloidal.html

Cindy


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Just to let you know that this baby is now eating and drinking. Although very light, he seems to be on the way to recovery. Thanks for the help and advice.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that was a spooky episode but I'm delighted that he's doing better. Crop stasis can really turn bad if it goes on for for too long. Thanks for the update!

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for the update, pigeonpoo, I know you have been keeping a close eye on the youngster. I'm glad to hear he has started to eat a litttle.


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