# help baby pigeon - parents watching



## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

i really need someones help, last night a pigeon fell on the ground in our back yard! it walked into a corner and then just went didnt move. the mum and dad was flying around but nothing happend! As it got dark we took it in and then this morning my mum perched on the fence, BIGGEST MISTAKE!!! after an hour it fell off dues to the wind. the parents were watching this. we still have the pigeon placed in a plastic tray with a towel in the garden. the parents are sitting on the fence near the baby but the dont seem to be going close to it. now and then its mum has came down to the ground being caustoius but getting quite near and then really annoyingly flies back to the fence. The baby is sleeping and seems quite calm but now and the she will move and stretch her wings. Parents seem to respond to this but soon as the baby falls asleep again so do they!!! thing is im wondering wheather i should meddle anymore, is there a chance they may reunite??? and should i take the bird out the tray! also i have a kitten who is gonna be wanting a wee soon. arrgggggghhhhhhh as i speak the parents have came right up 2 the box, looks like the are trying to tempt her to fly, she is trying to strtch her wings but hasnt ried to fly. looks like she cant get out the box HELP!!


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

parents came down tried to tempt baby to fly. maybe tried flapping her wing but kept bashing in to box that she is in, parent back on the fence, baby seems to have gone back to sleep though she was really active when parents were next to her xx x


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your concern over this youngster.

Where are you located? Is this is a wood pigeon?

Can you put it back in the nest? The baby may not be quite ready to fly, the parents may be wanting to feed the baby and that is why it is all excited when they come close to it.

Please do not leave the baby alone on the ground, as it is very vulnerbale to cats and such.


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

i am always watching the youngeter and there is never any cats in our garden. i live in england in northamptonshire. i looks always tired. see we have birds. i.e black birds and that in this bush/tree and am only assuming it came from there. he he and te parent sleep alot too. this youngser just doesnt seem like its bothered bout going anwhere! but i can see it windy and worried thats its cold.


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

i also thonk its a wood pigeon


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Skelly, whereabouts in Northamptonshire are you. I'm in England too. Might be able to get a contact out to you.
Is the baby fully feathered?
How big is it in relation to it's parents?


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

its slightly smaller than parents, yet i was surprised how young its parents looked!! though its parents have more markings and colur, baby is just one colur like a dusky grey. dunno about feather. i live in daventry in northamptonshire
shall i bring in u reckon as it looks really cold


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

OK if it is fully feathered and slightly smaller than parents then it is about nest leaving stage. It should not need protecting from the cold. I would take it out of the box at least then it can follow its parents. Is there a thick bush that you can place the bird in to give it some cover? This is what would normally happen in the wild. The important thing here is to try and keep the baby with parents if possible. Woodpigeons do not do well in captivity.
I'll look up my contacts and see if anyone is near you


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

its just got out the box. looks healthy, wish it wud fly, from the fall earlier im wondering if it hurt itself???


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

none of the pigeons seem in a hurry to do anthing either, not even the little one, whats gonna happen when it gets dark?? the baby hasnt even tried to call, find or walk to parents


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Skelly, I wouldn't worry too much. Baby birds don't stick like leeches to their parents once they have left the nest. They don't call incessently either - unless they are starlings!  
If the bird has got out of the box it won't be too bad. Just keep an eye on it but try not to upset the parents too much. Baby will usually be fed only a couple of times a day and it may not be due another meal yet. Remember that this sort of thing is going on in a lot of gardens and back yards throughout the country especially in spring and summer, it's just that this time it is in yours. I would be inclined to keep a discreet eye on it but don't interfere except in a life threatening situation. If all goes well baby should toddle off and hide somewhere and continue development while parents continue to feed. Only when baby is an accomplished flyer will it follow it parents out to the feeding areas and that could be a few weeks.


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

a bird sactuary has told me to the put the bird in a tree so its parents feel safer on feeding it. hopefully this works x x x


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Skelly
I'm struggling to get hold of my Northampton contacts. 
yes you could put the bird in a tree. Just be careful you don't panic him. Woodies are particularly skittish.
Andy Meads at Safewings is in the Northamptonshire area. You could use him as a last resort


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

yeah we mite to need to use someone at a last resort. thing is she isnt scared at all, she hasnt tried 2 fly away. sometimes she dont wanna let go of the blanket. she is really calm. the parents were gone for hours and now have just came back and seem to be circuling around, though there seems to be a fewer bigger pigeons too now unless there the same ones, its hard to tell.

thanks for the help


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

*aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhh*

the pigeon has just fallen out the tree, yet the bird sanctuary said persistance is the best thing and this mite happen, and if it does i have to place it back in the tree, which i did, even if i didnt want to,


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I thnk the bird sanctuary should be saying put it back in the tree where its nest is. I'm not sure any tree will do, if the parents can't see it.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have e-mailed you Karen's mobile number.

I am concerned that this might be a collared dove with bone problems (calcium deficiency), there are a lot of fledgling collared doves around at the moment and my sister found one unable to walk yesterday. With temperatures plummeting again tonight and probably not enough food it is crop it will be vulnerable tonight, to the cold if nothing else.

Is there any possibility of getting it to Karen? She lives in Far Cotton.

Cynthia


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hi my name is Karen, Cynthia has already passed on my mobile number, please get in contact and we can have a chat, there will be no pressure, but be nice to help you out. Hope to hear soon x


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hi Skelly, how's the baby this morning? Would love to hear from you )


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Karen!
How you doing?
 

Skelly, how did the baby do overnight?


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

*it ok*

yeah sorry i only replyed, the bird once again fell out the tree last evening and every time we left her on the floor she wud get herslef in to alsorts of bother like getting stuck betwwen 2 garden fences, obv trying to hide from the wind,. the parents are always watching but making no attempt to feed her so as it was getting dark we brought her in!! she survived the night to our joy and have left her in a box due to the miserable weather in a last attempt for the parents to show sum bravery. the watch but yet no more, we have placed her somewhere quite and sheltered by a bush hoping the parents will come down and feed her. we do not no where the nest is and not sure its in the tree in the garden, we no there is nests in there but we can not see them and so many other type of birds come out that tree. i dont think the parents come from that tree! any way my mum has gave up home on the parents and with baby getting in to trouble every time left on the ground we have no choice but to ring up the RSPCA!!(is that right) and they are going to *** to collect her sum time today and take her to a bird sancuary. at the moment the bird is still out side snuggling into some towels and parents are watching and strangely today the are cooing yet the dont seem as intrested in her as they did yesterday! thanks for the intrest


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Skelly, I am wary of the RSPCA
I have been dealing with them for more than 20 years and can tell you that this is not a good move for the bird. There are no guarantees this baby will end up at the bird Sanctuary. Do you know which one it is being taken to? Are you not able to take it yourself to be sure it goes there.
I am alarmed because in most wildlife cases - unless there is a TV crew around filming for pet rescue, the RSPCA will not spend the time and resources, and the casualty is usually put to sleep.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Can you give Safewings a ring?
Here is their number
O1536 726113.
Andy Meads is really very nice.
Or can you please ring Karen on the phone number Cynthia sent to you?
Please give this baby a chance


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

to be honest i dont no. my mum has dealt with them and she can be very persuasive! they said they will ring her today! ill ring her and let her no what u think. she seems in good health this bird and it wud be a shame to think they will put her down.


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

my mum said to bring the bird in now and ring andy meadwhich we also tried yeaterday but there still is no luck??


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

I've sent you Karen's phone number in a private message


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

where abouts it far cotten??


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

no reply from her either ha ha


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

hello im afraid i have to go out for a while, my mum is at work so if u get through to either andy mead ect give her a ring one . ill send the number in a private message, ill let her no u mite ring


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Karen hasn't had a phonecall, maybe it was misdialed?

We have lots of members in Northampton, if you can't get the baby to Karen maybe another member can help?

Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

OK, I got in touch with Karen and have passed your mum's phone number on to her


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hiya ) Really pleased thank you all so much managed to finally talk to Skelly's mum and Skelly We are going to be meeting up today at lunchtime so I can take over. So pleased that she has agreed to come most of the way to me, really say's something about someone - THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! Can't wait to see him/her and what condition they will be in, have a set up ready and waiting ) Will keep you all posted. Sorry Helen was little lost to who I was chatting to on the phone as wasn't home and had so many phone calls in matter of 10 mins lol hope all is ok with you and your end. Take care to all and thank you again for getting me and skelly to meet up xxx


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Sorry Helen was little lost to who I was chatting to on the phone 
****************************
Tut tut!
Save that number I phoned you on. It is my new mobile number.
Glad things worlked out ok. Please let us know how it goes.


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Good to have you back Helen  

Well the little one is a collared dove definatley at the at the weaning stage. Concerns - extremely cold, very mucky bum, falling over (very weak). No interest in nothing but sleeping at the moment think the car journey tired him out also along with the stress. I have tried the balloon method with him and not interested in the slightest and spits back out. I have been putting little seeds into his mouth by opening and he throws his head back as if in pain, did wonder about canker but nothing seen by the eye, think will treat him anyway just in case, shall I just give half tablet? I have managed to get down him at the moment 3ml of soaked chickcrumb, didnt' want to stress him out to much as was falling asleep between the syringing and had no interest in eating in the slightest. Have put him in a doughnut on heat, will let him have a hour or so sleep then will try some more via syringe again. Really not sure if this one able to make it as he is so weak, but keeping fingers crossed. 

Skelly really appreciate you coming this way for this little one, I will do my upmost best and keep you posted. Thank you so much for giving this little one a chance cause without you he certainly wouldn't be here! 

PS Did you have a name for him/her?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Karen,

I know that it is tempting to feed a starving pigeon but it is best concentrate on the warmth first then rehydration. The glucose in the rehydrating solutions should keep his strength up for a while, so don't try to feed any more just yet.

I would also hold off on the spartrix until you know that his digestive system is working.

Have a read of Cindy's instructions on the basic steps for saving the life of a pigeon or a dove: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9457&referrerid=560

I left my mobile at home but am still at work if you want to phone me.

Cynthia


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

glad she is still alive!! all u can do is do ur best! i think it was last nite were she got weak, she was quite active ( sometimes) yesterday. its such a shame


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Update :- sorry not seen your post Cynthia till just now and it's late so won't be calling today, I did end up getting her warmed through first and not given any spartrix. Managed to get about 3ml earlier down her, but she is shivering so bad, managed to warm her up, my ceramic light dont' work which is wonderful timing, so having to keep her on a hot water bottle and keep checking to make sure she's ok, she's/he's so cute, inside the doughnut she bury's her/his head into it. Managed to get her warmed lovely and a 10ml feed that she started preening and just finished giving her another feed, she does seem brighter, although still amazingly weak and still falls over. I really don't want to lift spirits as know she isn't out of the dark yet, but so nice to see her at least preening and drinking  Will update you all in the morning, keeping fingers crossed that she's going to be ok. Thanks again Skelly, your welcome to visit anytime. x


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

*little one*

glad to hear she is finally eating at least. Dont worry i wont get my hopes up as i no how weak she was when i saw her. the parents are haniging about! such a shame but at least she has a chance to survive this way. ha ha i got so attactched as she is so gorges!!! at least we have gave her a chance. i dont think the RSPCA rang my mum back lol so thanks for all the advice about not trusting them.


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Yippeee, well she is still with us, although still little wobbly, will keep you posted throughout the day and still keeping my fingers crossed ) x


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## skelly (Mar 23, 2006)

*Skellys mum here!*

She doesn't know it as she is at work! I would just like to say thank to to all concerned.  

We really did try to leave her at first but when night time fell it was so cold we had to bring her in. I got up at dawn to put her back outside in the hope that the parent would come and feed her but it wasn't to be.

I rang up the RSPB and they suggested that I should try putting her in a tree, I did this but she kept on falling out. I think that's when I knew that if we didn't get help soon she wasn't going to make it. I did ring the RSPCA as you know but when my daughter told me about the advice on the forum I rang up and cancelled the collection. To be honest they didn't seem that bothered and they said they might not come out anyway! 

It is sad as the parents have been hanging about since she left, coming in really close, they were in the tree until it was nearly dark last night calling for her. It is just a shame they weren't feeding her.

Anyway, thanks once again, please please let us know how she is going, I really hope we didn't leave it too late.

Mandy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Mandy,

The problem with both the RSPCA and the RSPB is that they believe in nature taking its course as far as fledgelings are concerned, and that means accepting a high level of mortality and basically leaving weak and disabled youngsters (other than hedgehogs) to die if they can't fend for themselves. 

You did the right thing both by giving the parent doves a chance to look after their little one and by taking it in before it reached the point of no return...the fact that it survived the night is very positive.

You might find that the same thing happens again with those parents, I have a situation at work where the fledglings rarely are able to fly or walk when they leave the nest. I think it is because of a lack of calcium so I put down calcium grit in that spot in the hope that the parents will eat it and benefit the youngster.

The dangerous time for the squabs will be summer when the bluebottles are around, they get fly blown and that is horrible. Because of that I think that it would be best to get any more that you spot to Karen as soon as possible. They can be released back in the garden as soon as they are able to fly.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Karen...you have done a wonderful job! The first night is the hardest.

I just wanted to remind you about the calcium...I always give my rescue doveys two drops a day of the Gem calcium syrup for three days, that stengthens their legs and their bones.

Cynthia


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Fingers Crossed*

Karen for the little dove - sounds like a great job all round by Skelly, Skelly's mum, Helen, Cynthia and last but not least Karen 

Yes the RSPCA and RSPB aren't on my favourite list of people. When Skelly said that they were going to come and collect the dove - I couldn't belive that - I mean usually you have to take casualties to them and well as has been said before, they don't have much time for youngsters.

In my ignorant times when I didn't know any better, I took two squabs (about 2 weeks old) and a youngster - maybe 4 weeks old to them because their nests, in a pub's flower arrangement had been netted over (with 2 other slightly older juveniles and 2 adults - what idiots would do this!!??) to the RSPCA - the receptionist looked at me and said " well we'll probably have to put them to sleep as we don't have the resources to care for them " ( oh yeah what about the millions of pounds you have - employ some more people - I'll do it!!) to which I miserably said "what about the older one - he looks as though he can eat on his own" to which she said " we'll see" - well of course I know better now and have a secure place to take youngsters - but yep the RSPCA - they don't do pigeons/doves really - even injured adults - they advised me if it has a wing injury or leg injury they euthanase - only if they (the patient) has something that is easy and can be treated in a day or two will they bother with!! Needless to say I don't go there anymore..........

I wonder if Rolf knows this!!! ( UK members will know what I mean)

Anyway, sorry about the rant about the RSPCA just glad that this little one has a chance with karen.

Tania x

PS - the other pigeons behind the netting - the two adults were caught and released ( by me!) and the two juveniles, stayed but were fed for a further two weeks by a very nice barman - Neil - and I did see them poking around days later amongst the flowers and then one day they had gone - he seemed genuine enough and I believe he did release them OK.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I used to call the RSPCA when I found sick or injured pigeons, they would come and fetch them and tell me what would happen (like antibiotics for a cat caught one, X-Ray and surgery for one that had a "deterrent" spike right through her). I handed my first rescue over to them and they assured me they would not euthanase her...but we have a wildlife hospital, so they had the resources and I hope that they didn't kill her.  .

However, I heard from a vet that their policy regarding pigeons had changed, so I would never hand one over now and will do what I can to dissuade anyone else from seeking their help.


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hi everyone ) Well today has gone really well and she has been able to keep her back tail feathers up when she walks. She certainly is alot brighter today and been doing little jumps as she walks, although not really had her out much only at feeding time as need her to build up strength. When I weighed her this morning she weighed 101g, not sure how much they should normally weigh but know it's not normal. Huge thank you to all who got involved to save this little one, and even bigger thank you to skelly and her mum who have saved her! If either of you want to come and visit, please do so. It's such a shame parents are still waiting for her, that guts me so much like you say such a shame that they didn't feed her. If she's still ok tomorrow, really feel she's definately going to make it. Yep been giving calcuim into the food as still syringing, she tries to pick up but don't open her beak to do so just seems to stab at them with beak closed bless so nice to watch them learn. If and when she is ready we can arrange to get her back to you if you wish for release. I'll give you a ring Skelly over the next few day's to find out what you want to do  

As for vets and RSPCA I certainly wouldn't let any bird go to the RSPCA, but I do have a vet that is so wonderful in Bedfordshire. He is a specialist in birds and has a heart of gold. Thankfully not been to see him for a very long time, but know he is there if im in dire need. xx


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> When I weighed her this morning she weighed 101g, not sure how much they should normally weigh but know it's not normal.


Sweetpea provided us with a record of her collared dove Paulie's weight day by day:

Day 5 = 32g
Day 6 = 42g
Day 7 = 50g
Day 8 = 60g
Day 9 = 62g
Day 10 = 69g
Day 11 = 75g
Day 12 = 80g
Day 13 = 84g
Day 14 = 86g
Day 15 = 88g
Day 16 = 91g
Day 17 = 90g
Day 18 = 90g
Day 20 = 98g
Day 22 = 108g
Day 24 = 118g
Day 26 = 121g

Collared doves fledge when they are between 15 and 19 days old, so her weight would not seem that far out. I think an adult weighs around 180 gms.

Cynthia


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Thank you for that Cynthia  Blimey don't understand then why so weak and falling over, unless my scales read wrong? Well she's still with me today and is standing well, she still can't pick any seeds up which is a shame and i'm going to start today excersising her wings to try and build up as she don't seem to be doing it herself. Thanks again, Happy Mothers Day to all you mothers out there  xxx


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Sorry just another question this is really bugging me, ok bird fledge and have to loose weight in order to fly, so this is obviously what was happening although she just didn't eat cause maybe too large to take off properly and the parents were waiting, but then how come she was so weak? Any idea's anyone, cause this is really puzzling me. How much per day do you think I should be feeding her? as she is not begging for food and has never begged for food, now she has more strength, shall I just leave her now to fledge?? Any help would be great  Thank you xx


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Karen,

Just my opinion but dehydration and lack of food would leave any animal weak within a day or two at the most. I think that calcium deficiency woud also leave her with weak muscles and bones.

I have had so many in that state over the past two years. I top up their food and watch their poops until I am happy that they are able to eat all that they need by themselves, then I let them build up their flight muscles before releasing.

Cynthia


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hi Cynthia  Well i'm going to just judge on the amount of food and monitor her weight so I can suit. We had some flying lessons today only a foot or tow high although lots of crash landings but all on a soft double bed, so she couldn't hurt herself after about the forth one she jumped a few times herself and did reasonably well  so she has the passion to do it, just need to loose that extra weight now possibly. Will keep you posted - Take care - Karen xx


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Happy Ending ) Well I decided today that the little one should be introduced to my aviary, I called Skelly to tell her the good news this afternoon and she's happy about it. I have 5 other ringneck doves in my avairy and as soon as I put the little one in, Dovey came down and sat with her and started feeding the little one also started eating ) Then she followed Dovey into the shed. Dovey seems to be taking her on, which is so so cool. Thought will let you know this has got the happy ending and all should be good now and thanks again to skelly and her mum for arranging help for this little one, without them she wouldn't be here ) xxx


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WONDERFUL NEWS, Karen!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is so cute, Karen!

Dovey always used to act as a mentor to the pigeon squeakers that I brought home, he taught them everything they needed to know.

Cynthia


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