# Found pigeon on doorstep



## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

Located north melb, Victoria . Australia

- found this pigeon which is very calm and let's me get super close on my doorstep at first I hushed it away and came right back to the exact same spot. I then got it some bread and water and a little basket with a towel but will still only sit on the doorstep . It walks and looks fairly okay but have not seen it fly. Attached is photo


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for helping the bird. Any bird that is not flying or seems too tame is either sick/injured or starved.

Put the bird inside a carrier or crate and keep warm and away from any drafts of air.

Could you please pick it up and see if the keel/breast bone is sharp? Does it have any kind of injuries.

Most important, could you please give the bird some wild bird seed or pigeon seed? If it is still not eating it will need to be force fed. You can use the following link for resources on hand/force feeding. http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/peasandcorn.htm *


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## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

It won't allow me to get that close for me to grab it and I do not have bird seeds of any kind , first I've ever experienced of this sort of scenario. I'll try my best


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you get some wild bird seed?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

So is the bird IN your house now, if not, shoo it INTO the house so u can close a door and then catch it in hand and have a feel of the breast to see if sharp bone indicating starvation. Then have a look over it to see if any injuries, on side of breast under armpit or wings. Go from there, but it needs warm sugar water, and some seed. Pigeon seed would be good if not wild bird seed and a few peanuts. See what u can do and let us know how we can further help.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

The poor thing is missing most of its toes also which may be very old injuries but a shame. Yes he/she should be somewhat easy to catch in that situation. Don't worry they can't hurt you. If you have any unpopped (and unsalted) popcorn kernels that may also get its attention until you can get some seeds. A feral may recognize bread as food (albeit not nutritious) but if this is a domestic bird it is used to a grain mixture.


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## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

Just came back from the Lort Smith animal hospital which i managed to bring it too. They said the wings and body are okay but it is a common virus at the moment in melbourne with Pigeons. It effects the neurological and nervous system allowing it not to fly / eat etc.. maximum span of 3 days.. euthanasia unfortunately


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What did they do for tests to come up with the diagnosis?


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## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

not quite sure jay3, i was adamant that for them not to put it down if it can be saved.. my girlfriend is a vet nurse, so im going to speak to the vet at her clinic see if he has come across it.


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## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

Pigeon Paramyxovirus - Information for Veterinarians

Background

A pigeon paramyxovirus not previously reported in Australia has been detected in hobby pigeons on a number of properties in Victoria since August 2011.

The Department of Primary Industries (DPI) has undertaken investigations to determine possible links between the properties and to detect other affected properties.

Affected pigeon flocks have experienced high mortality associated with lethargy, gastrointestinal and neurological signs. Sick birds have been lethargic, not flying, vomiting a white tinged fluid and then dying within three days. A large proportion of the birds in affected lofts have died in this manner. The virus is also killing feral pigeon populations.

There have been single cases in both a collared sparrow hawk and a spotted turtle dove identified in Melbourne.

To date, infection has been contained largely to Metropolitan Melbourne and immediate surrounds.

There are currently no reported unusual disease events in Australian commercial or backyard poultry flocks.

Investigation of disease

If you notice the above clinical signs or high death rates in your clients' pigeons, poultry or other birds, please call DPI on 1800 675 888. Pigeon owners will be contacted and information about the disease event will be recorded and advice on disease containment provided. Information on deaths in feral pigeons should also be provided to DPI. In addition deaths of other wild birds and poultry particularly from areas where there has been recorded deaths in feral pigeons due to PMV1 identified or reductions in populations of feral pigeons noted should be reported to DPI. This reporting is essential for DPI to accurately record the movement of PMV1 and any involvement of other avian species.

If you wish to collect samples for laboratory confirmation of the infection, instructions on sample collection and transport are available. 

Veterinarians should consider biosecurity risks for their practice when investigating such cases.

Recommendations to owners

Owners of diseased pigeons should be encouraged to confine the affected flock to the premises.

Owners of birds can minimise the risk of introducing disease by implementing good biosecurity measures, including preventing contact with other racing, fancy and wild pigeons, both directly and indirectly, for example via feed and water.

Vaccination should be considered in all domestic pigeons. Given the endemic nature of the disease within the feral population around greater Melbourne, pigeon owners need to consider all options to protect their birds against paramyxovirus. See 'vaccination' below for more details.

The National Farm Biosecurity Manual for Poultry Production provides advice on biosecurity standards relevant to all avian industry sectors, and includes information on sound everyday biosecurity practices, and a range of useful resources and links. The document is freely available on the Department of Agriculture Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) website at www.daff.gov.au/birds or hard copies can be obtained by contacting DAFF by telephone on (02) 6272 5283. This may be of use to your clients.

Vaccination

There is no currently registered vaccine for use in pigeons.

The CCEAD (Consultative Committee for Emergency Animal Disease has recently reviewed what other options are available. The CCEAD has advised that the 'off label' use of poultry Newcastle vaccine should be considered by pigeon owners in consultation with their Veterinarian. In Victoria, legislation requires that vaccine is used by or under the supervision of a veterinarian.

For more information on vaccination

Further information

Vaccination of Pigeons for Avian Paramyxovirus

If you have any questions please contact DPI on 1800 675 888.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

We know what PMV is and it is simply a virus and not always fatal. It can run its course and the bird may have recovered and or made someone a good pet, it is a pity that you didnt go to your girlfriends vet instead? We vaccinate our stock for this and many people have birds that have recovered from this and all you needed to do was supportive care and allow the bird to recover. I would have instructed the vet in no uncertain terms that he does NOT have permisson to kill the animal and that you would seek a second opinion that way they are obligated to do that and not play GOD. That makes me so mad. Oh well, live and learn.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They don't even know that he had PMV. They just didn't bother. That is why you never leave the pigeon, you always bring it back home. Many don't give a hoot about pigeons, and will just euthanize and say that it had a disease. He didn't look like a PMV bird. I think they lied if they said that.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird. Please if you can see if you can save it. PMV can just run its course so the bird will recover.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Am I missing something here? 
Euthanasia for PMV? Or missing toes? Or why the bird landed to your door step? Or why he trusted humans?
Why? PMV is curable , missing toes still he could fly... Then why he was killed? I burst into tears seeing this Euthanasia. I loved this beautiful bird, has such wide bright opened eyes then why they closed them forever? 
Why shouldn't we hate this Euthanasia? Any valid reason? We say we love birds, where is our love now? 
I can see this bird's pain of being Euthanized and I am not going to forgive anyone who did this crime or who is even a bit responsible for it. What a better choice if he would be left out to destiny but killed. What a merciful humane choice. Why shouldn't I pray for such vet to be cursed who made this so innocent bird slept forever? I have no answers now and I know it has ruined my day when I woke up and saw this. 
I just hate that vet and I have no mercy for him and i know he will do it again and so I want the same for him if I could do. At least someone could make them realize what they are doing, these are murders not mercy and they should be dead in the same way. 
I know I am bad, really bad but what else I can be when it is so stressful. I am sorry if anyone find me bad,
pls report me for rude post.I will leave this forum if I am rude and will never write again any. I am sorry I can't be any better for such criminals. Really sorry.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

cwebster said:


> Lovely bird. Please if you can see if you can save it. PMV can just run its course so the bird will recover.


C, the bird is dead they already killed it. Im surprised, he said that his girlfriend is a vet tech and yet he did not go to herr clinic? I agee with Jay, it did NOT look like a pmv bird either, they dont give a rats a$$ about pigeons. I just dont get how these vets just take over and decide FOR the clent that they are just gonna kill it without permissonn, you CANNOT do that in CANADA, you have to have a signature and permission to do that, makes me sick and I keep reading over and over again on this site how vets have the last work and the clients seem surprised and or agree to it. ???????? Why are so many people afraid to speak up and TELL the vets what to do? Sounds like this guy DID request that they try to save it, but he must have been too vague and they did not understand to NOT kill the bird.?????


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

kiddy said:


> Am I missing something here?
> Euthanasia for PMV? Or missing toes? Or why the bird landed to your door step? Or why he trusted humans?
> Why? PMV is curable , missing toes still he could fly... Then why he was killed? I burst into tears seeing this Euthanasia. I loved this beautiful bird, has such wide bright opened eyes then why they closed them forever?
> Why shouldn't we hate this Euthanasia? Any valid reason? We say we love birds, where is our love now?
> ...


Kiddy this is not rude, and I feel the same way, it sickened me to read this and Im almost afraid to say I think we should DISCOURAGE people from going to vets as best we can without being detrimental to the bird, but we must make it CLEAR as to how to talk to a vet and DEMAND that they do not kill wihout express permission from the client. It is simply a miscommunication. Wrecked my night and i have to try to go to sleep now too, I can see that birds bright face standing there in the hall in hopes of some human help and intervention and all he got was a dirt nap.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry, I misread, thought he was going to take the bird to the vet clinic where he has a friend. Am appalled, hurt, and angry and agree with CBL and kiddy that no bird should be killed when it is just missing toes and would recover with loving care. I despise vets and clinics who euthanize because they don't care or can't be bothered to try to help. Despicable. I would have loved to care for that lovely bird who trusted and showed up expecting help only to be killed. Sad.


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## Pidgy star19 (Jul 8, 2015)

I am pretty disgusted how I'm now targeted now, my gf vet is far away from where I live .. I told the vets that if it is not severe I'm more then happy to take it back. Other people would not give a **** and I here have taken lengths to help this bird and love helping animals.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Pls try and understand nobody is trying to target you, you didn't even know this may happen. We are sad that the bird trusted but got killed by an inhumane human who was criminal. You took pain in getting the bird to the clinic but probably you weren't clear in telling them that no matter what the problem is, they just don't have to euthanize the bird without your permission /not informing you. And if you did tell them clearly, you have a right to speak against them, against that crime. 
I don't know but may be you could complain for that vet who followed his choice and not yours and killed an innocent bird, can you go through something which could teach him a lesson to not to do it in future with any bird/any life? 
I am trying to look this thing online but I think your friend can tell you better if you want to do anything for that poor bird who lost his life trusting us. 

Can you try an effort to expiate rather repenting and feeling disgusted that you are being targeted here? I know you love critters and we all love them a lot and this is our love for them that we are here and nothing else, so can you pls try something to teach that vet a lesson through complaining to higher authorities or any head/ director of vet's association. Honestly I have no idea of what you people have there for this but I am sure there must be someone who could be approached for such grievances and their redressal, the matter needs to be pursued here. 
Your effort may give us a reason to smile and you too to not feeling guilty always. 
Pls if you could do something for those closed eyes which were wide and bright some time back. 
I know I may sound highly emotional but you will understand if you love someone truly. 
Really pray for that vet to understand so at least he does not repeat such killings in future but I in this condition usually people won't understand with kindness and there should be some strict action which needs to be taken against them else many such lives will again be ended and that too unnoticed.
If I die in trying for their justice, I would love to die but at least they should have some rights to be given in our society of so called humans. 
I would like to say to that poor bird that I am really sorry for you being killed by humans like me and I cry for you even being so far and want to die for your justice. I love you a lot poor life.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Pidgy star19 said:


> I am pretty disgusted how I'm now targeted now, my gf vet is far away from where I live .. I told the vets that if it is not severe I'm more then happy to take it back. Other people would not give a **** and I here have taken lengths to help this bird and love helping animals.


Unfortunate that you feel disgusted, but your disgust should be directed towards the vet that euthenized without authorization. Your own mistake was not being crystal clear regarding life and death and I advise that in the future you learn from this to not be complacient about it, as may flow into your own human life or human doctor. I find that unless one can be understood completely and when it is life and death that we have to be REALLY clear so things like this never happen again. No matter how far your girlfriend was, Im sure you see eachother, u could have just kept the bird, tossed him some seed and next visit, gave the bird to her and she may have understood you better on not killing it virus or not either directed you to care or cared for it herself, or given it away to someone who would have cared for it.
You are on a site that helps animals survive not kills them so of course we are not happy. What would you expect?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Pidgystar19, too many vets and wildlife rescue places euthanize pigeons without trying trying to save them. We got our first pet pigeon after she was severely injured. The local wildlife rescue only euthanizes because pigeons are "not wildlife"and have no value in their eyes so took the pigeon elsewhere then adopted her. I have stopped taking animals anywhere I cannot trust that they will try to save the bird and will not harm them or kill them without my total written informed consent for euthanasia which I see only as justified in case of complete hopelessness and suffering that cannot be relieved. We are reacting to the callousness of your vet which is all too common. If you want to help animals I have found you cannot just trust vets and rescuers who are expedient and uncaring. We are trying to let you know the dangers to the bird of trusting the wrong people who don't care about living creatures. Your bird was lovely and trusting and probably could have been helped. I am looking to adopt a bird like that and am so sad that he lost his life. Please realize our hurt and anger is not directed at your trying to help but at those who kill pigeons because they just don't care about them. Missing toes and maybe having a virus does not to me justify killing.societies are judged by how they treat helpless creatures, children, and elderly.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Many of these places don't care about pigeons, and especially ferals. What many of us do if we come upon a feral who needs help, is to lie and say that it is our pet bird. Not a wild bird. If it is our pet, then they need our permission to euthanize it. Also, unless absolutely necessary, we don't leave the bird with them, and do not hand it over. We stay there with it, just as a pet the whole time. I doubt that he had PMV, I really do. It's easy for them to say that it had this awful virus and had to be put down. That way, many people just walk away and forget about it. There is no reason to leave the bird with them, unless they are doing a surgery. Ask for them to explain what you need to do, and show you. Then you say thank you and take the bird home.
If indeed the bird did actually have PMV, then they don't have the time, nor the place to keep birds that are contagious, and will take a lot of time caring for them, so they just euthanize. But I don't believe that was even the case.
Lesson learned, ..........................The bird is ALWAYS your pet, (unless you know the vet and know they will not euthanize), You STAY with the bird, even while they are taking samples for tests or whatever,.................You NEVER walk away and leave the bird, but always leave with him. 

Pidgy Star 19, no one is blaming you for what happened. This has happened to many, unfortunately.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Good lessons. But to how many people can we teach these lessons in this way. There is no permanent solution. This will be seen only by few and rest all will again do the same out of ignorance and lack of knowledge . 
There should be some permanent solution of these vets but what? We know just one bird today but what about other birds who are facing the same daily? 
What about our leaders and laws? until there is no law, nothing will change. We have to do something to create awareness. It is our responsibility coz we care for birds while others don't.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

*I think this info needs to be made permanent*



Jay3 said:


> Many of these places don't care about pigeons, and especially ferals. What many of us do if we come upon a feral who needs help, is to lie and say that it is our pet bird. Not a wild bird. If it is our pet, then they need our permission to euthanize it. Also, unless absolutely necessary, we don't leave the bird with them, and do not hand it over. We stay there with it, just as a pet the whole time. I doubt that he had PMV, I really do. It's easy for them to say that it had this awful virus and had to be put down. That way, many people just walk away and forget about it. There is no reason to leave the bird with them, unless they are doing a surgery. Ask for them to explain what you need to do, and show you. Then you say thank you and take the bird home.
> If indeed the bird did actually have PMV, then they don't have the time, nor the place to keep birds that are contagious, and will take a lot of time caring for them, so they just euthanize. But I don't believe that was even the case.
> Lesson learned, ..........................The bird is ALWAYS your pet, (unless you know the vet and know they will not euthanize), You STAY with the bird, even while they are taking samples for tests or whatever,.................You NEVER walk away and leave the bird, but always leave with him.
> 
> Pidgy Star 19, no one is blaming you for what happened. This has happened to many, unfortunately.



I think this info needs to be added to the site as a permanent need under, found a bird now what section or wherever prudent, can it be done????


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unfortunately nothing you can do about it Kiddy. Can't save the world. Can only do it one animal at a time.

There is a saying that goes:
Saving one animal doesn't change the world, But it changes the world for that one animal.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Very true CBL.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Usually when someone comes on here for advice, and they tell us about bringing a feral in to a vet, we do warn them. But agree that it would be good under the found a bird section. Talk to a moderator about it.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

The problem with this guy was that he didnt even forewarn us he was going to a vet, just gave us the info after the fact, claiming that it would be dead by the virus in 3 days anyway. He totally believed the vet, which he should since he had no clue, but he should have given us a heads up, again he would not possibly know that either. I think he would not have taken it to that vet had we had the chance to give him the info that SAID, is the very reason why it needs to be sticky and information that is foremost when finding a bird, after first aid of course.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Many don't read the stickies either. You can't reach everyone. But whoever you do reach is worth it.
I didn't see any symptoms for PMV. And even with symptoms, tests need to be done, as other things can cause the same symptoms. They just didn't care and killed him for nothing.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I think I have been able to add it. I have added it in my signature at least for them whom I will post to. 
But this signature wasn't getting short enough to be uploaded, I wrote more with no success so this post was just to test.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LOL. Kiddy, you can probably ask a moderator if they could make it a sticky. LOL.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Will sticky be read by everyone? 
Rather my signature will be read by everyone whom I post to. As I remember many signatures here including you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I see what you are saying, but the headin BEWARE OF VETS IN YOUR AREA may make people afraid to go to vets. Can you change that? Maybe just PLEASE READ: Then all the rest.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Actually this is because I am really afraid of vets there. 
But OK I will change it. 
If anything else wrong here, pls correct me, I will paste but I have to do it. I am posting a lot these days and so it will reach many people I know.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That would be good. 
There are good vets here. Sadly some just aren't very nice people.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

OK done. It is quite a hard task adding long signatures, lots of editions and deletions it requires.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very nice Kiddy


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Good work Kiddy, I hope some one takes the time to read it and that means if anyone new posts for help you must reply and tell them to READ your signature before going to vets


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

There are so many darn stickies around the site that probably most new members don't read, because understandably people just want to join and post their concern.

We have a resources forum with quite a lot of info, but I doubt many people ever go find it.

Getting people's attention before they just dive into posting, encouraging them to just check one or two things first is best done with a website format. 

The Bulletin Board format common to sites such as PT are just not geared up to directing people to where you want them to go before they get into posting. I believe we do need some kind of 'splash page' (I think it's called) where people land when they log in, to ask them what they need. Aimed primarily at newer members, if they are seeking help/advice about a sick/injured/baby pigeon they can then be presented with a VERY brief list including a "don't rush off to a vet yet" kind of warning. If not, then they can just plough straight into the forums. Kinda depends on whether I have access to try something like that - if it means doing anything which isn't within the 'non-Keebali employee' admin facilities, then no go.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

CBL said:


> Good work Kiddy, I hope some one takes the time to read it and that means if anyone new posts for help you must reply and tell them to READ your signature before going to vets


Absolutely! People are more likely to see what's on kiddy's byline than go to a sticky.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL said:


> Good work Kiddy, I hope some one takes the time to read it and that means if anyone new posts for help you must reply and tell them to READ your signature before going to vets


People usually read signatures because it reflects every time with post. How many times can they ignore it? so I am sure it will be read, and I am glad if I can create a little awareness to save even few lives, i will be happy to have this signature.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

John_D said:


> There are so many darn stickies around the site that probably most new members don't read, because understandably people just want to join and post their concern.
> 
> We have a resources forum with quite a lot of info, but I doubt many people ever go find it.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for trying to consider our concern, if you can figure out something, it would be of great help for birds and bird lovers. 
This vet problem is the biggest problem in there which interrupts our work of helping birds and we go out of mind thinking why it is happening and why there is no check over this crime. I believe you will try your best. 
Thanks a lot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I had thought the same thing. That most people wouldn't even see it in a sticky. Your signature is probably better.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Yup I think its a great idea  I contstantly unconscously read and re read Jays siggy lol thinking it is part of the post lol, I get a few works in and realize nope, siggy, so good idea Kiddy.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hope and believe it will help someone...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sure many will see it. Good idea.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Kiddy, love your well spoken sticky/tips.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks cwebster. This is what I could only do...


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