# Need help for treating sick pigeons



## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Hello everyone,

First things first, I'm a guy living in Mumbai, India. I mention this because a lot of things are different here, so a bit of background should help you more experienced pigeon lovers give me better advice and help.

I feed pigeons in my house's balcony. I also have a water bowl for them to keep them from going thirsty.

Lately I've been finding many pigeons that are sick, some very sick, and need help but I don't know where to go. I was surprised to find this forum and grateful for all the help I've and will find here.

I need help regarding some pigeons who seem to be sick and can't eat or drink anything. I'm attaching a picture I took today of one of the pigeons who seems to be the most sick. This pigeon - and a couple more like him - can't eat or drink anything and it has been quite a few days.

As you can see, his beak stays open and although he tries, he can't seem to pick up the grains. Maybe he manages to eat one or two grains after a lot of trying, but I'm not too sure about that.

There are a couple more pigeons like him. One of them used to be fine and normal, but suddenly started having his beak stuck open. He can't close his beak and can't pick up any grains too.

Another pigeon, he's beak is not open yet he can't swallow what he manages to pick up. But his beak does look a little swollen to me. I know I'm asking too much in one post but there are a lot of pigeons here that come daily to eat so there are also a fair few of them that I find struggling.

I also want to mention one more thing. I feed water to them in a small bowl, and many pigeons end up pooping in it while they are sitting around my balcony. And they then end up drinking the same water. I've been dumb enough to think this was fine with wild pigeons (just for the lack of a better term - pigeons never seem wild in any way). But could this be causing these issues? I'd hate to find out if I've given this misery to these poor pigeons.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just desperately looking for help for these pigeons. I'm just a normal guy without much resources where I live, so I think my options are limited. Also, there seem to be too many of these pigeons for me alone to be able to help, but I still don't want to call it quits without even trying. And this is my attempt at doing so.

I'm hopeful you kindhearted pigeon lovers will give me some effective advice and help and I'll be able to treat these pigeons and make them eat normally again.

Thanks in advance!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

With a beak stuck open like that, he might have canker that can easily be treated with metronidazole. This meds you can get from your pharmacy.

Best to catch him and bring inside your home. Check inside the beak and back of throat for yellowish growths as this is one of the symptoms of canker. Canker prevents them from eating, so they actually starve to death. They also drink a lot of water when they have canker.

The dosage will be 50 mg of metro once daily for 7 to 10 days. Sometimes it takes longer. Don't stop the treatment when they seem better, as the canker will return.

Clean the waterbowl twice a day. Canker is highly contageous and healthy birds can easily become infected if they drink from the same bowl.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> With a beak stuck open like that, he might have canker that can easily be treated with metronidazole. This meds you can get from your pharmacy.
> 
> Best to catch him and bring inside your home. Check inside the beak and back of throat for yellowish growths as this is one of the symptoms of canker. Canker prevents them from eating, so they actually starve to death. They also drink a lot of water when they have canker.
> 
> ...


Thanks a ton for your help. I'm so glad someone replied!

Unfortunately as no one replied to my post for like a couple days I had to catch him and give him to a group that voluntarily look after sick pigeons. However, the people that were treating this pigeon there were salaried employees and didn't seem to care much about him.

But I had to give him to them as I didn't seem to have many options. The person there said he might be having a bump or "pimple" in his throat. He cleaned the pigeon's beak with some antibiotic liquid, and immediately after gave him some kind of liquid medicine. I wasn't too sure about the way he was being treated though.

That said, if you're sure it's canker I'll just try to bring the pigeon back to my home and give him the medicine you suggested. But in what form should I give it to him? I did some research and metronidazole is available in both tablet and powder form, although much easily available as tablets here.

Can I buy metronidazole in tablet form and dissolve it in water and feed it to him? I ask this because I'm not too sure how I'd go about feeding him a tablet.

Please advice. I really appreciate your help here. And as I said in my initial post, there seem to be two more pigeons like him who are not able to eat anything either.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Try to get the metro in tablet form, just make sure about the strength you get. An adult pigeon will need 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days, or until the growths are gone. You can split the tablet into the correct size and put deep inside the beak for him to swallow. Before you give the meds, first check how advanced the growths are. Sometimes the throat can be almost completely blocked and if you dislodge the growth, the pigeon can bleed to death. Unfortunately the metro does not dissolve easily in water, but if the throat is blocked then it will be safer to get him to drink the meds in water. As I said, canker makes them very thirsty. When the growths become smaller, then you can continue by giving in tablet form.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, welcome to PT and thanks so much for caring about those pigeons 😊.

I watched your pic from my phone: if I'm not wrong (the photo is not very clear) there are growths inside his beak. As other said, it could be canker. Have you noticed any yellowish growths when you caught him?

Pigeons who have canker can't pick up seeds and can't swallow them. If the growths are very bad they can't close the beak (when we rescued my pigeon Bruna she could not close her mouth and the beak was also misaligned. I saw similar situations in other pigeons).

If you catch one of the other two pigeons you should look inside his beak/throat with a flashlight. You should also pay attention to any bad smell (Bruna had a disgusting smell coming from her beakl).

I attach a few links so you can read some info about canker:



Canker – Pigeon And Dove Rescue UK











Canker in racing pigeons: symptoms and treating it


Trichomoniasis or Canker (as it's known in pigeons) is quite widespread in the pigeon world, especially in the UK, and may be fatal in young birds.




racingpigeonsport.com





Do you know if a disinfectant like Betadine 10% (povidone iodine) is available in India?
If yes, you can apply it topically on the growths of the birds (in addition to the medicine treatment): you have to dip a Q-tip in it (the cotton bud must be not too dry or too wet/impregnated ) and apply it on the growths and inside all the mouths/throats like if you were "painting" them.

I am used to treat canker with spartrix (carnidazole) so surely Marina could give you a better answer than me about metrodinazole. In the meantime I attach a link about drugs dosage:



http://www.homingpigeon.com/article/Dosage.html



I would try to find a safer way to give them water. You could look for a poultry/pigeon water feeder (in agricultural supply stores, etc).
Sharing water and food is a way to catch diseases but at least this way pigeons could not poop in the water.

Could you find apple cider vinegar there? If yes, you could add it to the drinking water twice a week (about 5 ml to 1 liter of water). ACV acidifies the contents in crop and discourages the multiplication of some bad bacteria; helps with digestion; etc.

Try to keep a scrupulous hygiene: regularly clean and disinfect feeders and floor, often replace drinking water.

Edit: Marina and I replied at the same time so I didn't read her post. 
She replied about metrodinazole.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> Try to get the metro in tablet form, just make sure about the strength you get. An adult pigeon will need 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days, or until the growths are gone. You can split the tablet into the correct size and put deep inside the beak for him to swallow. Before you give the meds, first check how advanced the growths are. Sometimes the throat can be almost completely blocked and if you dislodge the growth, the pigeon can bleed to death. Unfortunately the metro does not dissolve easily in water, but if the throat is blocked then it will be safer to get him to drink the meds in water. As I said, canker makes them very thirsty. When the growths become smaller, then you can continue by giving in tablet form.


Thank you so much for your reply, Marina. I did a fair bit of research and have a couple questions to ask.

First, are both the following medicines the same - metronidazole - or is one of them better than the other?









Metrogyl 200 Tablet: View Uses, Side Effects, Price and Substitutes | 1mg


Metrogyl 200 Tablet is used in the treatment of Bacterial infections,Parasitic infections. View Metrogyl 200 Tablet (strip of 15 tablets) uses, composition, side-effects, price, substitutes, drug interactions, precautions, warnings, expert advice and buy online at best price on 1mg.com




www.1mg.com













Flagyl 200 Tablet: View Uses, Side Effects, Price and Substitutes | 1mg


Flagyl 200 Tablet is used in the treatment of Bacterial infections,Parasitic infections. View Flagyl 200 Tablet (strip of 15 tablets) uses, composition, side-effects, price, substitutes, drug interactions, precautions, warnings, expert advice and buy online at best price on 1mg.com




www.1mg.com





I know they are probably 200mg, so I'll probably have to break each table into four parts and give only one to the pigeon every day?

In addition, they also have a metronidazole gel. Could this be an effective alternative to tablet if the pigeon can't swallow the tablet like you said?









Metrogyl Gel: View Uses, Side Effects, Price and Substitutes | 1mg


Metrogyl Gel is used in the treatment of Acne,Bacterial infections,Parasitic infections. View Metrogyl Gel (tube of 30 gm Gel) uses, composition, side-effects, price, substitutes, drug interactions, precautions, warnings, expert advice and buy online at best price on 1mg.com




www.1mg.com





I'm sorry for the follow-up and specific questions but I'm really new to treating pigeons and scared I'd mess something up.



Colombina said:


> Hi, welcome to PT and thanks so much for caring about those pigeons 😊.
> 
> I watched your pic from my phone: if I'm not wrong (the photo is not very clear) there are growths inside his beak. As other said, it could be canker. Have you noticed any yellowish growths when you caught him?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post and kind words, Colombina.

I couldn't check the inside of his beak so can't comment for sure if there are any yellowish spots. I'll probably get the pigeon back from the voluntary care center tomorrow if his condition still hasn't improved much and try to treat him myself using the advice you and Marina shared with me here.

Catching a pigeon is hard too, though. I could catch this one as he was smaller and was already very weak and not able to fly away as swiftly as the others.

Yes of course Betadine 10% is available here. I searched it on an online pharmacy and they sell a 100 ml solution and 500 ml solution. There's another 50 ml one too here. Which one should I go for? However, I've probably read them mention that it must be applied only externally (shouldn't be swallowed). Would applying it on the mouth still be fine?

Just before I start adding ACV into the water for pigeons, could there be any harmful effects on them if I somehow end up adding a higher dose to the water? Just want to be sure.

Again, thanks so much for your help. I'm glad for any help I can get from here.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, flagyl is the same as the metro. You can use any of these two. I'm not sure about the gel, from the description it sounds as if it can only be used externally. 

If the cankergrowths inside are quite advanced, you can try mixing the split tablet with some water (unfortunately it doesn't mix well with water) and try dribbling it inside the beak.

A higher dose of ACV in the water won't harm them, but they might end up not drinking it. 5 ml acv to 1 litre of water.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I learned about the use of Betadine 10% from my vet. The important thing is using the right amount of it: your q-tip must be neither too dry nor too impregnated/wet. You have to apply it topically only in case of visible growths.
Povidone iodine is used even to treat trichomonal infection in humans. 









What to do if I *suspect* I have stopped canker...


Hi all. I have a bird which I thought might have canker. I gave her Ronsec for 10 days (i.e 5 tablets). Some symptoms disappeared or improved after about 5-7 days but for the rest of the treatment her condition did not change much so I stopped the treatment. It's been around 2 weeks since then...




www.pigeons.biz





I always apply it when I treat a bird with canker or yeasts and I find it helpful.
In any case I want to add that not all vets agree with this method: this way you can make an informed choice. 

I have the 125 ml Betadine 10% bottle. The choice depends on what use you want to make of it: if you think to use it even for yourself and/or your family (it's a disinfectant) and maybe for future pigeons you could buy the 100 ml bottle.

Please keep us updated 😊.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I forgot... If you don't want to apply the Betadine you could apply lemon juice.

The pigeonrescue website I posted earlier mentions even Lugols 3% but I have never heard of this product.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Thank you for your help again! Unfortunately, this little guy passed away. I called the voluntary pigeon help center when I thought I was ready to get him back to my home the next day, but they told me he passed away the day before yesterday. They said he was doing better but suddenly had some kind of water coming out of his mouth and died.

But I was still so sad about it and regretted not getting him back sooner as I thought I'd have had better chances of treating him successfully with the advice you both have shared here. Maybe I delayed it a bit too much as I thought I need to know everything about it before I can have the confidence of treating him at home. A bad decision, I must say!

However, your advice will still be useful as there's another pigeon or two who seem to be having the same problem (so I suspect canker as you explained). Their beak remains open too. I'm attaching all the images and videos I took of this other pigeon.



Marina B said:


> Yes, flagyl is the same as the metro. You can use any of these two. I'm not sure about the gel, from the description it sounds as if it can only be used externally.
> 
> If the cankergrowths inside are quite advanced, you can try mixing the split tablet with some water (unfortunately it doesn't mix well with water) and try dribbling it inside the beak.
> 
> A higher dose of ACV in the water won't harm them, but they might end up not drinking it. 5 ml acv to 1 litre of water.


Thank you! I'll get the metro tomorrow morning itself and keep it ready when this other pigeon with the same problem arrives at my home tomorrow. Hopefully I manage to catch him the way I managed to do it today.

I've also ordered ACV and should have it delivered by tomorrow evening too. I'll add a small amount of it to their water bowl and see how they respond to it.

BTW, would it be fine to crush the tablet into powder and put it into the infected pigeon's throat? I think that should help retain the effectiveness while preventing any swallowing issues too. Or am I missing something here?



Colombina said:


> I learned about the use of Betadine 10% from my vet. The important thing is using the right amount of it: your q-tip must be neither too dry nor too impregnated/wet. You have to apply it topically only in case of visible growths.
> Povidone iodine is used even to treat trichomonal infection in humans.
> 
> 
> ...





Colombina said:


> I forgot... If you don't want to apply the Betadine you could apply lemon juice.
> 
> The pigeonrescue website I posted earlier mentions even Lugols 3% but I have never heard of this product.


Thanks for your detailed reply again. I hope I manage to save at least this other pigeon with the advice you both have given me.

Do you think ACV will be a good substitute to iodine or lemon juice? I mean, can I just apply ACV to the infected areas in his beak? I guess that would be pretty safe too.

Finally, here are the pictures and videos of this other pigeon with his beak open too. I caught him today and examined him for the things you shared here as the symptoms of canker. While I didn't see a lot of yellowish stuff in his throat, there was something sticky right on the lower part of his beak at the front itself. And it was smelling pretty bad like you had mentioned. So I suspect it must be canker, right? It would be very helpful if you can confirm that. As I'm not sure how a pigeon without canker would response if I give him metro.

I've also ordered this bird cage from Amazon. Would it be fine for keeping this pigeon in the cage for 7 days - or until it becomes free of canker?

P.S. For some reason there doesn't seem to be any option to add videos. So I just uploaded them to my Google Drive. You can find them here: Pigeons - Google Drive.

Sure, I'll definitely keep you updated about this pigeon. Sadly, lost the first smaller one and it was very depressing.  Hope to be able to save this one though.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sorry about the one that passed away, sometimes they are just too far gone to be saved. Don't put the undiluted acv on the growths, will be too strong. They get very thirsty when they have canker, rather let them drink the acv water. If the growths are very large, you can crush the tablet and put some powder inside the beak. Just avoid the breathing hole, otherwise the pigeon might aspirate.

The photos are not very clear. Pigeon pox also causes growths inside the beak. Usually they have plenty of growths on the beak and eyes as well.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm really sorry to hear that the little guy passed away. Don't blame yourself, you did what you thought was the best for him. You are doing a lot for those pigeons 😊. 

Yes, it's good to keep him in a cage. 

Don't put acv on the growths. Don't worry, if you prefer to not apply Betadine or lemon juice don't apply them. I only shared my experience but it is you who must decide 😊. 

I treated some pigeons who had very bad canker (the throat was badly blocked by the growths), this is what I did. 
I cut the spartrix tablet (I have never used metrodinazole so I do not know if this could work with it) in 4 pieces with a knife then I crumbled each part with my fingers in many many small fragments. I put the fragments one at a time inside the mouth and using a wet q-tip (just water) I gently "dabbed" them near the canker. It took a long time but little by little the birds took the whole tablet (btw I think that the direct contact of the spartrix helped, I don't know if it is the same thing with metro). 

The pics are not really clear and I can't see your videos (I don't know why...). 
Sometimes I found inside the beak of pigeons who had bad canker even some "dirtiness" (like food that they couldn't swallow etc.). 
Also sometimes most of the growths are down in the throat so you need to check carefully with a flashlight.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> Sorry about the one that passed away, sometimes they are just too far gone to be saved. Don't put the undiluted acv on the growths, will be too strong. They get very thirsty when they have canker, rather let them drink the acv water. If the growths are very large, you can crush the tablet and put some powder inside the beak. Just avoid the breathing hole, otherwise the pigeon might aspirate.
> 
> The photos are not very clear. Pigeon pox also causes growths inside the beak. Usually they have plenty of growths on the beak and eyes as well.


Thanks for your reply again. Alright, I won't put ACV as you both said so. I've just started adding ACV to their water since the past 2-3 days. I still see more and more pigeons getting infected (they have the same problem of not being able to swallow the seeds) though. I think one of the reasons this infection is spreading so fast is that the infected pigeons pick up the seeds but can't swallow them, so they end up throwing them out again. Then the other "normal" pigeons end up eating them, which I think could be spreading the infection to other pigeons.

I've been surprised how otherwise perfectly healthy pigeons are falling prey to this infection that renders them unable to swallow the seeds.

How do I know where's the breathing hole? After reading your reply I was worried about putting the metro tablet into their breathing hole. So I just gave them the metro liquid syrup instead. My local chemist asked me if I wanted the metro tablets or liquid syrup, and I bought them both. I've attached a picture of the metro liquid syrup I gave to two pigeons today. I saw yellowish bump in their throat, so it must have been canker. They weren't able to swallow the seeds. Unfortunately I had to release them as the cage has not yet arrived. Hopefully they keep returning and I'll give them these meds again. But do you think giving them this metro liquid syrup be effective for them, particularly in comparison with the metro tablets? I'll also look to give them the tablet (50 mg as you said) once you explain how to avoid putting it in the breathing hole. Especially if the tablet works better.

For the pigeons in question there was no growth at all on the eyes. They looked pretty normal except for that they couldn't swallow the seeds, and on examination had some kind of yellowish bump in their throat. I do see a couple pigeons who have some kind of weird growth on their eyes though. But they otherwise look fine for the most part and are able to eat.



Colombina said:


> I'm really sorry to hear that the little guy passed away. Don't blame yourself, you did what you thought was the best for him. You are doing a lot for those pigeons 😊.
> 
> Yes, it's good to keep him in a cage.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words. I still feel I took a lazy approach. I could have at least visited that pigeon to check if he's actually doing fine or needs help. I'll try to be more careful from now on.

I've ordered the cage and it should arrive in 2-3 days.

I've actually bought a bottle of Betadine as well (attaching the pic with this post). Do you apply it on their throat as well? I see that the growths seem to be pretty deep into their mouth so was just feeling a little unsure about it as I may not have the right knowledge how to go about applying it the right way. This was especially after I read somewhere that it's only to be used externally. If you can please let me know if it's safe to apply on the growths in their throat.

What was the strength of the spartrix you used? And how long it took for the pigeons to be free of canker using spartrix?

Thanks for letting me know about using flashlight. I'll definitely do that from now instead of just trying to check their mouth and the starting point of their throat.

On a side note, I feel a little worried after reading your post as I gave them the metro liquid syrup without checking deep into their throat for advanced growths. Hope the syrup doesn't end up blocking their throat or the breathing hole as Marina said and aspirate them?

On another note, I now have a pigeon coming in since the past 2-3 days who has his lower beak broken (pics attached). He seems to be in such a sorry state but I feel helpless. I caught him and tried to feed him by hand but he won't eat. He continuously tries picking up the seeds I put in the balcony for the other pigeons though, but can't pick up even a single seed due to the lower part of his beak being completely gone.

I even made a kind of thick paste by grinding some peas and adding the powder to water. I tried putting his beak into the solution for him to drink it but he didn't even drink that. Can you both please help me to help this poor guy as well?

Again, I'm really grateful to you both for helping me so much with all this. I feel so helpless as I can't help these poor souls much.

P.S. Do you think it would be a better option to order this All in One Powder here:All in One Powder They also sell the 4 in 1 powder in case that product is a better choice for treating these pigeons.

*Edited to add:* I've just ordered Spartrix and the All in One Powder from the Global Pigeons Store. It will take quite a few days for them to arrive here in India, but the Spartix seems to be a much better treatment for canker. They say it only requires one dose, which sounds great compared to a 7-day metro treatment as I don't have the convenience or ability to keep so many pigeons in my home. I also ordered the all in one powder to just add it to the water bowl some times as a precautionary measure. Please let me know if this sounds like a good idea.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The poor pigeon. You can handfeed him defrosted green peas. Defrost in lukewarm water and feed him 10 peas for a start. When that gets digested (you will notice a change in the droppings) you can feed more. Just pop one pea at a time deep inside his beak over the tongue and let him swallow. If he spits it out, you need to put the pea deeper inside the mouth. An adult pigeon will need 50 peas 3 times a day. You can put small seeds in a deep seed dish for him. He might need to stuck his whole beak in the dish to be able to eat.

When you open the beak, you will see the breathing hole at the base of the tongue. Any liquids needs to be put past the breathing hole straight into the throat. The liquid metro will be better for pigeons with advanced canker growths.

Can you get hold of large cardboard boxes? They are fine to use as cages if you are keeping the sick pigeons in a safe spot as inside your home. Turn the boxes on the side and cover the front with chicken wire. Pigeons like to perch on something. So you can put a brick inside for them and cover the floor with newspaper for easy cleaning.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes, I apply Betadine even on the growths in the throat.
I apply it not only on the growths but even in all mouth (also under the tongue) and throat. I gently apply it like if I were "painting" the mouth/throat. If you feel unsure (because you don't have any experience with that) apply it only in the mouth and not in the throat. Remember to use the right amount of Betadine.

I checked the spartrix: each tablet contains 10 mg of carnidazole. I'm used to give the whole tablet also to young pigeons (instead of half a tablet). In the most severe cases I had to give more than a tablet (I decided how many tablets according to each situation).
Spatrix is safe for birds. It's possible to use it even as preventative treatment (you could give a tablet even to pigeons who don't show symptoms for the moment).
You will find directions for use inside the package (you have to remove water, etc). If you have any questions feel free to ask 😊.

I have never used the all in one powder so I can't give you an opinion. If it works also as a preventative treatment it could be a good idea.

I attach a pic of a water feeder for pigeons (I told you about it in my first post): at least pigeons could not poop in the water using it.
Yes, unfortunately as you said eating seeds dropped by a sick bird is a way to catch the disease (as well as sharing water, etc).

If you need to give a liquid medicine you could use a "tool" like the one in the pic, I find it more practical and more safer (because of its shape) than a normal syringe.

I have never cared about a pigeon with missing beak. Have you tried the peas and the deep dish as suggested by Marina? Do the methods work?


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Sorry for not replying sooner. I had been away from my home but had asked my family to feed the pigeons while I was away which they did. I also had some health issues recently.

However, one of the important reasons that kept me away is that I feel very disappointed with myself about this. I've just not been able to help these sick pigeons. I can't get the spartix here. It's just stuck in transit for some reason. Maybe the shipping to India from New York isn't as smooth as I thought.

And I can't keep them in my home for 7 days or so to give them metro daily for that time period. They are in too bad a shape already to be kept in a cage as they can't eat anything. How will they survive 7 days without eating anything?

I thought the spartix could have been an excellent solution to their canker as it would need just one tablet and maybe they would be able to start eating again after only a day or so of being given one spartix tablet. But it's been a month and the spartix tablets I ordered from Global Pigeon Supply is just stuck in transit. I don't have much hopes left now.




Marina B said:


> The poor pigeon. You can handfeed him defrosted green peas. Defrost in lukewarm water and feed him 10 peas for a start. When that gets digested (you will notice a change in the droppings) you can feed more. Just pop one pea at a time deep inside his beak over the tongue and let him swallow. If he spits it out, you need to put the pea deeper inside the mouth. An adult pigeon will need 50 peas 3 times a day. You can put small seeds in a deep seed dish for him. He might need to stuck his whole beak in the dish to be able to eat.
> 
> When you open the beak, you will see the breathing hole at the base of the tongue. Any liquids needs to be put past the breathing hole straight into the throat. The liquid metro will be better for pigeons with advanced canker growths.
> 
> Can you get hold of large cardboard boxes? They are fine to use as cages if you are keeping the sick pigeons in a safe spot as inside your home. Turn the boxes on the side and cover the front with chicken wire. Pigeons like to perch on something. So you can put a brick inside for them and cover the floor with newspaper for easy cleaning.


I did hand-feed this pigeon roasted peas for two days, which I feed all other pigeons as well. However, even after feeding he just wasn't willing to stay in my home. He started feeling too scared and would get terrified even when I got close to him.

He did come back after being hand-fed for the first time, but I didn't see him again after the second day of hand-feeding him.

He was the only pigeon I saw in my life with a broken beak though. Most of the rest just seem to have canker. They have a foul smell coming from their mouth with some whitish formation around their mouth.

But I'm still not sure if I'm being able to put the liquid or tablet metro deep into their mouth, as it's hard to go that deep. I always feel worried it might go into the breathing hole like you said and do them more harm than good.

I don't know what to do about all this. Just feel defeated in my effort to treat them for canker.



Colombina said:


> Yes, I apply Betadine even on the growths in the throat.
> I apply it not only on the growths but even in all mouth (also under the tongue) and throat. I gently apply it like if I were "painting" the mouth/throat. If you feel unsure (because you don't have any experience with that) apply it only in the mouth and not in the throat. Remember to use the right amount of Betadine.
> 
> I checked the spartrix: each tablet contains 10 mg of carnidazole. I'm used to give the whole tablet also to young pigeons (instead of half a tablet). In the most severe cases I had to give more than a tablet (I decided how many tablets according to each situation).
> ...


Alright I'll try applying betadine as well on their growths in the mouth. I'll start with a very mild amount.

For spartix I've just one question. Is there a way I can find or get it here in India? I ordered from the Global Pigeon Supply store and they shipped via USPS and it even reached another state in India but for some reason they are not shipping it here to my home. Is there a locally available medicine that works as an alternative or anything else that can treat them with just one tablet? As ALL pigeons that have their beak stuck open as they do when suffering from canker can't seem to eat even a single seed. So there seems no way they can go 7 days on the metro treatment alive even if I put them in a cage at my home.

Thanks for attaching those pics. I've stopped putting the water bowl for now as someone in the neighboring building now regularly puts a water bowl for them and they can't poop in it so it seems it would be safer for them to just drink from there. But if I do have to feed them in a water bowl again I'll keep some kind of cardboard roof over it to prevent their droppings from falling in the water.

I also checked for the type of water feeders you suggested and although I couldn't find anything very similar, there seems to be some models that may work better. I'll also try them out if needed. Thank you.

What are these tools for giving liquid medicine called? I'll try to search for them as well.

Yes, he was eating the seeds I was (forcefully) putting inside his beak. But even after feeding him so many, he was usually very hesitant to let me touch his beak. I thought he might allow me to do it because he was getting food? Unfortunately I think I've lost him forever as well, as he didn't return after the second day of handfeeding him.

The only thing we at my family have been able to do successfully is catching pigeons with threads stuck tightly around their legs. But there are still like a couple who have the thread make its way through their legs with swollen, rotten legs. The others who don't have it as bad we have mostly been able to destringe them successfully.

But unfortunately for pigeons with canker I've not been able to treat even a single pigeon, and this is why I feel so hopeless about it...


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Rather try to get the metronidazole in tablet form, 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days. We don't get spartrix in our country, but I doubt 1 tablet will cure them. I think the treatment is 5 days minimim. 

You won't need to handfeed them for 7 days, usually the metro works quite fast and they will start eating seeds within a day or two. For severe cases you can actually give 100 mg first dose and thereafter 50 mg.

The peas needs to be the frozen type you buy in supermarkets. Easy to feed and for them to digest.

It must be frustrating and heartbreaking for you. Speak to your neighbour about adding apple cider vinegar to the drinking water. If you are unable to treat them, rather boost their immunity to fight of diseases.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues, I hope you are fine now.

About spartrix - there are many Indian members here on PT (like SumanaC, etc), you could maybe try to ask them if they know where to find or to get it or if they can suggest you another product available in your country. If they are not online you could try to send them a pm. 
Have you tried to check this website? 









Spartrix Tablets


Azesto Impex Private Limited - Offering Carnidazol Spartrix Tablets, Strength: 10 mg at Rs 3000/strip in Nagpur, Maharashtra. Read about company. Get contact details and address | ID: 15008705862



m.indiamart.com





In my experience, spartrix is a very good and safe product. The treatment is not 5 days minimum. When my pigeon Londo got canker I gave her two tablets (I also applied Betadine, of course, but I don't remember how many days). I decide on a case-by-case basis. Anyway, if you will find it I will be glad to share my experience and to help you. In the meantime you can start to apply the Betadine (I remember you bought it), povidone iodine is used to treat trichomonal infection even in humans. 
Don't be scared about putting the tablet into their mouth, it's not as complicated as you imagine (I also explained how to do that in case of several growths). I think that the risk of putting the tablet into the breathing hole is very low. In any case, remember that we are all here to help you.

I'm not sure but I think that those tools are called pipette, they are used for administering meds to babies/children, animals. You could show the pic to a pharmacist and ask if they sell them. It's not easy to explain that but I find them more safer and practical than common syringes (which have that small "spout"): because of their "straight shape" it is easier to avoid the risk of aspiration (you can gently lean it against the roof of the mouth). I've learned it from experience. 

Yes, there are other models of water feeders (like the ones for chickens). 

I'm sorry to hear that you probably lost the pigeon with the broken beak. I understand how you feel but please be strong. You have a big heart, I think that those pigeons are lucky to have you and your family.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks again to you both for your help. I'm grateful for the information you're sharing with me as always.



Marina B said:


> Rather try to get the metronidazole in tablet form, 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days. We don't get spartrix in our country, but I doubt 1 tablet will cure them. I think the treatment is 5 days minimim.
> 
> You won't need to handfeed them for 7 days, usually the metro works quite fast and they will start eating seeds within a day or two. For severe cases you can actually give 100 mg first dose and thereafter 50 mg.
> 
> ...


For the first time I gave the metro tablet to a pigeon that seemed to have canker, and it looks like it works. I could only grab hold of 200 mg metro tablets, so we split it into half, crushed it into powder, and gave it to the pigeon daily for 2 days. He didn't return later. We put some of the crushed tablet powder directly into his throat, and the rest by mixing it in water. But as you had said, it doesn't really dissolve well in water so a bit ends up being leftover.

However, the pigeon's beak seemed to have become almost normal on the second day itself, while before giving the tablets it was stuck open like with the earlier pigeons I've shared the pics for above. Unfortunately, he still wasn't able to pick up seeds, but I did handfeed him for the two days he did come to our home.

Just gave another half tablet (100mg) in crushed form to another smaller pigeon today. I wasn't sure if he has canker but he seemed to have trouble swallowing with foul smell from his mouth and some whitish formation as well, so it did feel like he had a mild case of canker too. I gave 100 mg as we don't manage to put all of it into their mouth and they also don't always return for us to give them more tablet to them.

Can you please confirm you actually mean these (frozen) green peas here? I ask because there are hundreds of "pigeon feeding stations" in our country but I haven't seen green peas being fed to pigeons here ever. BTW, I feed them white rice and roasted peas (pic attached).

Alright. I'll start giving them water again with the ACV added to it, by either using a different type of water feeder as Colombina suggested or putting a cardboard roof over the water feeding bowl.

Thanks again for your help! 



Colombina said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your health issues, I hope you are fine now.
> 
> About spartrix - there are many Indian members here on PT (like SumanaC, etc), you could maybe try to ask them if they know where to find or to get it or if they can suggest you another product available in your country. If they are not online you could try to send them a pm.
> Have you tried to check this website?
> ...


Thanks for reminding me about that website. I had found spartix there, but thought it would be better to order from a specialized pigeon store and saw someone recommend the global pigeon supply store. I'll definitely look into ordering spartix from that website. The metro tablets have seemingly been working well too, but if the spartix works faster then that would be great.

Yes, I'm still very confused about putting the tablet or even the seeds (while handfeeding) into the breathing hole. Is the small gap at the front part of their mouth the breathing hole? I now try to put things a little deeper into their mouth.

Do you put the tablet directly in their mouth? I think pigeons with canker can't swallow seeds and anything you put on their mouth (not very deep into their mouth) gets stuck. This is why I crush them into powder form and put into their mouth and sometimes also mix it with water and try to make them drink it.

I remember about how you asked to apply betadine as if I were painting. Can you please confirm I've got the right product (betadine) by looking at the pic I attached earlier? For some reason I feel very scared about doing them more harm than good. But it seems like many of them die of canker anyway, so I need to gather more courage and try to treat them as much as I can. Unfortunately we have like hundreds of pigeons come in our home balcony to eat seeds every day, so I find many sick pigeons on a regular basis.

It gets a little overwhelming to feed them all and treat so many sick pigeons regularly though, so a faster solution like spartix and betadine might certainly help. I'll continue with metro tablets in the meantime as my first attempt with them seemed to have improved the pigeon's health and get his beak closed in a normal way, though he still wasn't able to pick up seed.

Thanks for letting me know about that syringe. I've ordered and received these two syringes (this and this) from Amazon India but they seem like poor quality products going by the reviews. I'll try to get the one you recommend by inquiring about it at some local pharmacists.

Thanks again - and a lot - for both your helpful post and your kind words. I'm glad I found this forum and people like you and Marina who are willing to spend so much time selflessly for these poor folks that most people hate!


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks again to you both for your help. I'm grateful for the information you're sharing with me as always.



Marina B said:


> Rather try to get the metronidazole in tablet form, 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days. We don't get spartrix in our country, but I doubt 1 tablet will cure them. I think the treatment is 5 days minimim.
> 
> You won't need to handfeed them for 7 days, usually the metro works quite fast and they will start eating seeds within a day or two. For severe cases you can actually give 100 mg first dose and thereafter 50 mg.
> 
> ...


For the first time I gave the metro tablet to a pigeon that seemed to have canker, and it looks like it works. I could only grab hold of 200 mg metro tablets, so we split it into half, crushed it into powder, and gave it to the pigeon daily for 2 days. He didn't return later. We put some of the crushed tablet powder directly into his throat, and the rest by mixing it in water. But as you had said, it doesn't really dissolve well in water so a bit ends up being leftover.

However, the pigeon's beak seemed to have become almost normal on the second day itself, while before giving the tablets it was stuck open like with the earlier pigeons I've shared the pics for above. Unfortunately, he still wasn't able to pick up seeds, but I did handfeed him for the two days he did come to our home.

Just gave another half tablet (100mg) in crushed form to another smaller pigeon today. I wasn't sure if he has canker but he seemed to have trouble swallowing with foul smell from his mouth and some whitish formation as well, so it did feel like he had a mild case of canker too. I gave 100 mg as we don't manage to put all of it into their mouth and they also don't always return for us to give them more tablet to them.

Can you please confirm you actually mean these (frozen) green peas here? I ask because there are hundreds of "pigeon feeding stations" in our country but I haven't seen green peas being fed to pigeons here ever. BTW, I feed them white rice and roasted peas (pic attached).

Alright. I'll start giving them water again with the ACV added to it, by either using a different type of water feeder as Colombina suggested or putting a cardboard roof over the water feeding bowl.

Thanks again for your help! 



Colombina said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your health issues, I hope you are fine now.
> 
> About spartrix - there are many Indian members here on PT (like SumanaC, etc), you could maybe try to ask them if they know where to find or to get it or if they can suggest you another product available in your country. If they are not online you could try to send them a pm.
> Have you tried to check this website?
> ...


Thanks for reminding me about that website. I had found spartix there, but thought it would be better to order from a specialized pigeon store and saw someone recommend the global pigeon supply store. I'll definitely look into ordering spartix from that website. The metro tablets have seemingly been working well too, but if the spartix works faster then that would be great.

Yes, I'm still very confused about putting the tablet or even the seeds (while handfeeding) into the breathing hole. Is the small gap at the front part of their mouth the breathing hole? I now try to put things a little deeper into their mouth.

Do you put the tablet directly in their mouth? I think pigeons with canker can't swallow seeds and anything you put on their mouth (not very deep into their mouth) gets stuck. This is why I crush them into powder form and put into their mouth and sometimes also mix it with water and try to make them drink it.

I remember about how you asked to apply betadine as if I were painting. Can you please confirm I've got the right product (betadine) by looking at the pic I attached earlier? For some reason I feel very scared about doing them more harm than good. But it seems like many of them die of canker anyway, so I need to gather more courage and try to treat them as much as I can. Unfortunately we have like hundreds of pigeons come in our home balcony to eat seeds every day, so I find many sick pigeons on a regular basis.

It gets a little overwhelming to feed them all and treat so many sick pigeons regularly though, so a faster solution like spartix and betadine might certainly help. I'll continue with metro tablets in the meantime as my first attempt with them seemed to have improved the pigeon's health and get his beak closed in a normal way, though he still wasn't able to pick up seed.

Thanks for letting me know about that syringe. I've ordered and received these two syringes (this and this) from Amazon India but they seem like poor quality products going by the reviews. I'll try to get the one you recommend by inquiring about it at some local pharmacists.

Thanks again - and a lot - for both your helpful post and your kind words. I'm glad I found this forum and people like you and Marina who are willing to spend so much time selflessly for these poor folks that most people hate!

P.S. In addition to the pic of one of the food items I feed them (roasted peas), I've also attached the pic of:

1 - The droppings of the pigeon I just tried to treat for canker with the metro tablets (2 pics).

2 - A pigeon with a weird infection spot (I found it later burst and looked like it will go away, but I didn't find this pigeon again). Is it fine to apply betadine on such "infection spots" too?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The dose of metro is too high and the treatment period too short. Usually one will give 10 mg for every 100 gr birdweight for 7 to 10 days, sometimes longer until all the growths are gone. An adult pigeon that weighs 500 gr will get 50 mg of metro once a day. I know this must be difficult if one does not have room for all the sick pigeons. If one treats for too short a period, the canker will only return.

The one with the white in the beak probably had a yeast infection. For that one needs to give Nystatin twice a day for 5 to 7 days. Giving antibiotics will only make the yeast worse. Yeast looks different than canker.

The peas are the frozen type one buys in the supermarket. Pigeons won't eat peas by themselves, but it's perfect for handfeeding a sick or young pigeon that's not started eating seeds yet. Easy to digest and has lots of moisture.

When you open the beak, you will see the tongue and at the base (towards the back) is the breathing hole. Google some images reg the inside of a pigeon beak.

If the droppings are green and creamy, then they are producing starvation droppings and this means they has not eaten for a while.

Thanks for what you are doing for the pigeons!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I checked your pic. I attach a pic of my Betadine 10%: I think they are the same product. If you feel scared about applying it you could maybe ask to a family member to do that at your place (just tell him/her what I explained to you). I always apply it and I find it a useful additional treatment (because it helps to "dry" and so to "kill" those protozoa) but If you feel unsure don't do that.

As you started to treat those two pigeons with metro I would try to finish the treatment (if they return... ). Metro is an antibiotic so I agree with Marina, it would be important to finish the course.

Yes, I put the tablet into their mouth (I'm not used to crush tablets into powder because honestly I don't like the idea of giving powder to pigeons).
Spartrix tablets are quite "big" so I cut them in 4 pieces with a knife (vets are able to put "giant" tablet directly into their throat... I'm not able to do that...).
If pigeons are able to swallow I give a quarter of a tablet one at a time (I always check the mouth/throat before giving the other piece, you need to be sure that they swallowed the previous piece).
If they have many many growths inside the beak (just to mention one, my pigeon Chris "Pikachu" was badly blocked by canker) I am used to do what I explained in post n. 12. I cut the tablet into 4 pieces with a knife then I "crumble" each part with my fingers in several small fragments (no powder, fragments). I put the fragments one at a time inside the mouth/throat and using a wet q-tip (just water, no Betadine) I gently "dab" them near the canker until they become a "mush" and pigeons are able to swallow them. Sometimes it is possible to push the fragment down their throat with the q-tip. Each situation is different so I decide what to do on a case-by-case basis. I know that these methods take a long time but little by little I am able to give to the birds the whole tablet (btw I think that the direct contact of the spartrix helps, I don't know if it is the same thing with metro).

Whitish growths could suggest yeasts (even in case of yeast there could be a horrible smell). Could you please give us more details? Here are two links about yeasts:









PetCoach - Ask a Vet Online 24/7


Veterinarians and other pet experts are standing by to answer all your health, nutrition and behavior questions! Chat live now about your dog, cat, or any other pet.




www.petcoach.co










Candida / Candidiasis / Thrush Infections in Pet Birds by Dr. Rob Marshall


Article by Dr. Rob Marshall




www.beautyofbirds.com





As Marina said, if it's yeast you should treat it with nystatin. In addition to nystatin you could even apply topically Betadine (same method), povidone iodine is used to treat candidal infections also in humans. As alternative to Betadine my vet suggested me Éosine 2% (you can see it in the pic). I read about Éosine even here (I'm sorry but the link is in French):






Muguet (candidose) du pigeon


Pigeons voyageurs et colombophilie



www.colombophiliefr.com





I forgot... If it's impossible to handfeed seeds because the pigeon can't swallow anything (sometimes it is possible to push down the seed with a q-tip) I give to the bird baby bird formula by syringe. My pigeon Caterina got a terrible yeast infection, I had to give her the formula in a very very slow way.

The pic of that pigeon is not very clear, could you please describe what you see on his face?


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> The dose of metro is too high and the treatment period too short. Usually one will give 10 mg for every 100 gr birdweight for 7 to 10 days, sometimes longer until all the growths are gone. An adult pigeon that weighs 500 gr will get 50 mg of metro once a day. I know this must be difficult if one does not have room for all the sick pigeons. If one treats for too short a period, the canker will only return.
> 
> The one with the white in the beak probably had a yeast infection. For that one needs to give Nystatin twice a day for 5 to 7 days. Giving antibiotics will only make the yeast worse. Yeast looks different than canker.
> 
> ...


Oh, thanks for letting me know about that. I'll reduce the dosage for sick pigeons I try to treat in the future. Does a higher dosage harms them? I think you had mentioned in one of your posts that it's ok to give 100mg dosage to pigeons with severe canker. So I think it must not be harmful to them.

How do you differentiate between canker and yeast? Is the only major difference between the way that with canker they have their beak stuck open and with yeast they don't?

Alright, I'll look into purchasing frozen peas when I've to handfeed a pigeon again. Thanks for letting me know about it.

I think I now know the breathing hole. I think it's the hole on the front part of their mouth, well before the end of their beak.

That's so sad to know. So that means the pigeon was starving from a long time. I could only handfeed him for 2 days and didn't see him again.



Colombina said:


> I checked your pic. I attach a pic of my Betadine 10%: I think they are the same product. If you feel scared about applying it you could maybe ask to a family member to do that at your place (just tell him/her what I explained to you). I always apply it and I find it a useful additional treatment (because it helps to "dry" and so to "kill" those protozoa) but If you feel unsure don't do that.
> 
> As you started to treat those two pigeons with metro I would try to finish the treatment (if they return... ). Metro is an antibiotic so I agree with Marina, it would be important to finish the course.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for all your help. If betadine can help treat both canker and yeast (which I've never tried to treat before) then it could definitely be very useful.

I understand what you and Marina say about completing the metro course. I'll keep that in mind now.

Do you think giving them crushed powder harms them in some way or makes the treatment less effective? I was wondering why you don't like feeding powder to them.

I'll order the spartix tablets you found for me on that Indian website soon. Hopefully it works faster than metro so that they don't need to be kept at home for days. They seem terrified when I try to keep them at home anyway. I can't see them that way.

Do pigeons with yeast eat normally? That pigeon I talked about earlier is being able to eat (unlike with canker), but they are clearly having difficulty swallowing from what I can see. But he does seem to be in a very poor shape overall. Looks sick and dull.

I've quickly gone through the first article and read some parts of the second one you shared. I still can't tell for sure how to tell if a pigeon has yeast infection. I'll try to do some more research. There are local vets too but they are only experienced treating parrots and other "pet" birds, not pigeons. So I feel scared they might end up doing more harm than good. That and the fact that it may not be possible to keep taking so many sick pigeons to a vet regularly.

Do you know if there can be an alternative for the bird baby bird formula? Did your pigeon Caterina manage to overcome the yeast infection?

Thanks for sharing the pic as well. What's Eosine? Another name for betadine? Sorry if my questions are vague btw. Honestly speaking I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help those poor pigeons but I think I should at least educate myself about treating them so that I'm not completely clueless when I do end up treating them.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The 100 mg you can give as a first dose when the canker is severe, thereafter it should be 50 mg for an adult pigeon once a day.

Yeast can also cause difficulty in swallowing when the throat is affected. It's sometimes difficult to determine if yeast or canker is involved. Yeast can cause whitish growths inside the beak and throat. When the crop gets affected by yeast, this will cause slow crop, undigested seeds in the droppings and vomiting. If unsure, you can treat for both. Try to get Nystatin, this is an anti-fungal and works well. Can be used while a pigeon is on metro for canker. Apple cider vinegar also helps to prevent yeast.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The hole you see is the breathing hole, that's the one to avoid.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> The 100 mg you can give as a first dose when the canker is severe, thereafter it should be 50 mg for an adult pigeon once a day.
> 
> Yeast can also cause difficulty in swallowing when the throat is affected. It's sometimes difficult to determine if yeast or canker is involved. Yeast can cause whitish growths inside the beak and throat. When the crop gets affected by yeast, this will cause slow crop, undigested seeds in the droppings and vomiting. If unsure, you can treat for both. Try to get Nystatin, this is an anti-fungal and works well. Can be used while a pigeon is on metro for canker. Apple cider vinegar also helps to prevent yeast.





Marina B said:


> The hole you see is the breathing hole, that's the one to avoid.
> View attachment 96494


Yes, I never try to give 100mg dose after the first day. I give around 50mg.

Yeah I can see slow eating in some pigeons but their beak looks normal, unlike in most pigeons with canker (based on my diagnosis, which I'm still not completely sure about) where their beak is stuck open. Can this be considered as a clear distinction between these two conditions?

I'll start feeding them ACV water again now, while trying to put some kind of cardboard roof over it to prevent them from pooping into it. BTW, does drinking water from a water bowl where they keep pooping or eating from a place (my balcony) where there are a lot of regular droppings cause them to get canker or yeast or any other infections for that matter?

On that note, I found a pigeon today who was eating very slow. I caught him and opening his mouth and saw a thick whitish layer right on the front of his lower beak. His tongue also looked like it has been shifted to the side due to the thick formation in his mouth. I've attached some pics but I think they haven't come out very clear. Is it yeast or canker?

Thanks for sharing that pic of the breathing hole. That's what I thought would be the breathing hole.

I read your post on some other thread saying we shouldn't put water in their mouth. However, we have done it on a few occasions for giving the metro tablet and also just thinking they might not be able to drink it themselves. But we tried to put them a little deep into their mouth. Would they still have aspirated due to that?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

When the beak is stuck open, the canker is quite advanced. They can have canker with smaller growths inside the beak and you will not notice it from the outside. If one puts the water or meds past the breathing hole, then they can't aspirate. Although if they vomit and the liquid gets into the breathing hole, then they can.

Canker gets spread from the mouth via the drinking water or if a pigeon tries to eat and drops the seed from his mouth and it gets picked up by another pigeon. The protozoan that causes canker, survives only for about 20 min outside the host (pigeon). Although I read the other day that when the weather is warm and the temperature of the drinking water is more than 25 degrees Celsius, it can survive for 24 hours. Maybe that's why yoù are finding so many infected pigeons.

That growth looks like wet pox to me. This is something totally different. Usually they get it on the outside unfeathered parts of the body. Around the eyes, beak and on the legs. Canker is more towards the back of the mouth. Pox gets spread via infected mosquitoes. It's a virus and will clear up in a couple of weeks. One needs to give supportive care and treat any secondary infections.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry for the late reply.

No, Éosine is not another name for Betadine, it's another product (it's too a disinfectant solution). Here it's very easy to find it (you can buy it even at supermarket) so I bought both the products and I use both of them.
As Betadine is used to treat both tricomonial and candidal infections you can use it (as additional treatment) in both cases. You don't need to look for Éosine, don't worry 😊 (I talked about it in case you had it at home).

Yeasts could affect different areas (even the respiratory tract).
Yes, Caterina has overcome the yeast infection. We had to fight hard (my vet thought she was going to die) but she is still alive and she became mum on June 2019! I'm going to explain you what I saw inside her beak/throat: the first time I looked inside it I saw a big amount of a whitish material down in her throat: it looked like a "creamy" substance. Her neck was swollen. There was a disgusting smell. I brought her to the vet who administered the first dosage of the treatment. A few days later, all that creamy material was no longer visible in the throat but she still had down, on the "sides" of her throat, some whitish "patches". She had great difficulties in swallowing so I had to hand feed her and to give her nystatin in a very very slow way.
My brother rescued a pigeon, Henri, who had too yeasts. He told me that he had inside his beak a big growth, he said it looked like "a big white worm or maggot". He could not eat because of that growth.
Sometimes it's not very easy to distinguish yeast from canker.

I don't like giving powder to pigeons because I think that putting powder into a beak is not very safe. I think it's safer putting pieces or fragments of tablets.
I have to daily hand feed my blind pigeon Geordi. I noticed that even just a little bit of powder makes him cough.

As alternative to baby bird formula you could use products for human babies for example. I have never used them but if you want I could give you some info.

Could you find bird vitamins there? If yes, you could regularly add them to the drinking water (just check the instructions). They will help your pigeons to get stronger. Btw have you found a way to make a roof over the water bowl? If you remember I suggested you to use a water feeder precisely because sharing water contaminated by poops is a way to catch diseases. I know that a water feeder can't solve the problem of saliva but... It's better than nothing 🙄...
It's also very important to maintain a good hygiene (regularly clean bowls, floor, etc). 
You can give ACV water twice a week.

I watched the pics from my phone but as you said they are not very clear. In all honesty I can't say what that growth is.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

In Italy we have a product called Amuchina which is good for disinfecting baby bottles, toys, etc (other than for washing fruits and vegetables). Just to get you an idea about it here is a link:









AMUCHINA 1000ML : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care


AMUCHINA 1000ML : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care



www.amazon.co.uk





If you could find something similar in India, you could use it for disinfecting food and water bowls, syringes (in any case, when you need to use a syringe, regularly change it with a new one), etc.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> When the beak is stuck open, the canker is quite advanced. They can have canker with smaller growths inside the beak and you will not notice it from the outside. If one puts the water or meds past the breathing hole, then they can't aspirate. Although if they vomit and the liquid gets into the breathing hole, then they can.
> 
> Canker gets spread from the mouth via the drinking water or if a pigeon tries to eat and drops the seed from his mouth and it gets picked up by another pigeon. The protozoan that causes canker, survives only for about 20 min outside the host (pigeon). Although I read the other day that when the weather is warm and the temperature of the drinking water is more than 25 degrees Celsius, it can survive for 24 hours. Maybe that's why yoù are finding so many infected pigeons.
> 
> That growth looks like wet pox to me. This is something totally different. Usually they get it on the outside unfeathered parts of the body. Around the eyes, beak and on the legs. Canker is more towards the back of the mouth. Pox gets spread via infected mosquitoes. It's a virus and will clear up in a couple of weeks. One needs to give supportive care and treat any secondary infections.


Yes, I only notice these pigeons with canker when I see their beak open and when they are unable to pick up the seeds. But for just the whitish formation inside their mouth I'm confused how I'd be able to figure out whether it's canker or yeast.

Yes, the temperature is usually over 25 degree celcius so it's probably much warmer than Western and European countries.

Okay. Good to know there's something in pigeons that goes away by itself! I appreciate all the help as always.



Colombina said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> 
> No, Éosine is not another name for Betadine, it's another product (it's too a disinfectant solution). Here it's very easy to find it (you can buy it even at supermarket) so I bought both the products and I use both of them.
> As Betadine is used to treat both tricomonial and candidal infections you can use it (as additional treatment) in both cases. You don't need to look for Éosine, don't worry 😊 (I talked about it in case you had it at home).
> ...


No worries. I haven't been able to reply sooner as well. Okay, thanks for clarifying that.

That's the thing I'm worried about now. Not being able to distinguish between canker and yeast and giving them those metro tablets when they actually have yeast and making matters worse for them as Marina told. I think you have those whitish creamy substance in their mouth with canker as well? Is treating them for both canker and yeast the best approach here? Is there a possibility it ends up doing more harm than good due to the use of antibiotics? Glad to know your pigeon Caterine made it through though.

I'll now stop giving them powder and give small fragments the way you explained. Although I'm not giving them anything right now as I haven't seen any clear case of canker in a few days (with the beak stuck open) and I'm too afraid to give them the wrong treatment in case they have yeast.

If I end up in a situation where I need more info about baby food I'll definitely let you know here. Thanks for offering to help further. I'm thankful you and Marina take so much time to help a stranger like me do some good for these poor little souls.

On the Indian Amazon they do have bird vitamin products here but they have printed the pictures of parrots on them. Would they be fine for pigeons as well? And do you think the water feeder here will do the trick?

I can give them ACV water every day too. Would it be a good idea or be an overkill?

No problem. That pigeon was still being able to eat, albeit not without some clear level of difficulty.



Colombina said:


> In Italy we have a product called Amuchina which is good for disinfecting baby bottles, toys, etc (other than for washing fruits and vegetables). Just to get you an idea about it here is a link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing about this. I haven't been able to find this product on the Indian Amazon and some other online stores. BTW, what do you think would be the best way to clean the floor they eat on? I wash the water bowl daily, but only with water. The floor however rarely gets any kind of cleaning, although it does get a lot of sunlight which I think might work as a natural disinfectant to some extent?

Thanks again for all your help.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Rather stick to acv in the water 2 or 3 times a week. They can have canker and the beaks will look normal. It starts as a small growth and you will only notice this if you open the beaks and check inside. They can also have canker without any growths inside the beak. Those pigeons you are seeing with the beaks stuck open is when the canker is quite advanced.

If you are unsure whether it's canker or yeast, then you can treat for both. Nystatin does not get absorbed into the body, it needs to come into contact with the yeast in order to kill it. Also works best on an empty crop. Given twice daily,


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I know, unfortunately sometimes it's not easy to distinguish yeast from canker. Have you given a look at the links that I posted at post n. 5? There are a few pics of canker in pigeons. You could also look for other photos online. Canker is more yellowish in color, we say that its color looks like the one of "polenta" (but probably you don't know what is polenta, it's an Italian dish). I have never seen that whitish creamy substance (the one which was in Caterina's throat) in pigeons with canker. I don't know how to explain but that substance looked like a "cream".
When my pigeon Londo got canker I understood that something was wrong because she looked passive and her beak was slightly open, only slightly open (I attach a pic but I think it's not very clear). I checked her mouth with a flashlight and she had canker (not advanced).

The use of antibiotics could increase the risk of yeast or make the situation worse.
Have you received the spartrix? I have never used metro so I don't have any experience with it but from what I read spartrix is safer. As you decided to stop the metro treatment you could give them spartrix (if you suspect canker). Also remember that carnidazole is used even like a preventative treatment. When Londo got canker I gave to her husband Pulcino a spartrix tablet (he did not get canker).
Honestly I don't know what to suggest you, I should see your pigeons, it would be the only way to understand if they have canker and/or yeast (if it's possible to distinguish the one from the other without a vet test!). Personally I don't like giving medications without a reason. Try to watch canker pics and compare them with what you saw into the beaks.
In case you decide to buy nystatin I attach a pic of it. We will explain how to use it.

Also remember that Betadine is useful in both cases (canker and yeast). 

Sometimes I found inside the mouth of pigeons with canker some "dirtiness" like food that they couldn't swallow or other stuff (if I'm not wrong something looked greyish).

I'm used to give ACV water twice a week.

I checked the water feeder, from the pic it doesn't seem deep enough. Here you can see a model different from the one that I posted earlier (the link is in French but you can see the photos. As you can notice the base of the feeder is deeper):






Abreuvoir base profonde 5 litres


D'excellente qualité, ces abreuvoirs ont une base profonde, très appréciée pour les grandes volailles, les canards et les pigeons. Disposent d'un bouchon à vis sous l'abreuvoir qui permet un remplissage très facile. Démontable pour le nettoyage.



www.vivelelevage.com





If you can't find something similar to Amuchina you could use for washing bowls an antibacterial soap (water is not enough) like a liquid one for hands. Just rinse bowls well.
For washing floor you can use a floor cleaner (an antibacterial one would be better). Surely you have something good at home.

Don't worry if the vitamins have parrots or chickens or canary on the package. Try to find something with several vitamins and minerals. I checked the link, I saw that those supplements are for small amounts of water (for small bowls), for example directions for use of Vita Boost or Vita Care say "15 drops to 50 ml of water". That's not ok. You should use a great number of drops for a big bowl! That's not practical and not advantageous (I know that because years ago I bought something similar). You should look for something for bigger amounts of water.
Just to get you an idea I use this one:



https://www.versele-laga.com/en/fr/oropharma/products/oropharma-omnivit



I have to put a measuring spoon for 250 ml of water.
Maybe you could try to look for a supplement for chickens. I think they should be for bigger amounts of water.

No need to thank us. You are not a stranger, you are a pigeon lover so you are a friend 😊. Friends help each other!


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> Rather stick to acv in the water 2 or 3 times a week. They can have canker and the beaks will look normal. It starts as a small growth and you will only notice this if you open the beaks and check inside. They can also have canker without any growths inside the beak. Those pigeons you are seeing with the beaks stuck open is when the canker is quite advanced.
> 
> If you are unsure whether it's canker or yeast, then you can treat for both. Nystatin does not get absorbed into the body, it needs to come into contact with the yeast in order to kill it. Also works best on an empty crop. Given twice daily,


Thanks for your post again. I'll buying Nystatin if they have it at the local pharmist store. You say it just needs to come into contact with the yeast. Does it mean I don't need to feed it to them and just move it over the affected area?



Colombina said:


> I know, unfortunately sometimes it's not easy to distinguish yeast from canker. Have you given a look at the links that I posted at post n. 5? There are a few pics of canker in pigeons. You could also look for other photos online. Canker is more yellowish in color, we say that its color looks like the one of "polenta" (but probably you don't know what is polenta, it's an Italian dish). I have never seen that whitish creamy substance (the one which was in Caterina's throat) in pigeons with canker. I don't know how to explain but that substance looked like a "cream".
> When my pigeon Londo got canker I understood that something was wrong because she looked passive and her beak was slightly open, only slightly open (I attach a pic but I think it's not very clear). I checked her mouth with a flashlight and she had canker (not advanced).
> 
> The use of antibiotics could increase the risk of yeast or make the situation worse.
> ...


I just went back and checked those pics again. I think now I've a better understanding of what canker looks like so it may get easier to identify a yeast infection as well. Yesterday I found a pigeon with a very thick white substance right on the front part of his lower beak. The smell was disgusting and hard to bear as that formation was really thick. I suspect that's yeast. I've attached pics but unfortunately they didn't come very clean as usual as I wasn't the one taking the pics. How do you hold the pigeon in place when examining them or giving them medicines?

That's barely even open. As you can tell from some of the pics I attached some of the pigeons here have their beak much widely open. I keep looking out for pigeons who can't eat but it's rarely possible to find them when they have just got very mild canker.

I'm going to order spartrix tomorrow. I couldn't order it yet due to some issues at my end. Do you mean to say spartrix won't make it worse for pigeons with yeast?

The two pigeons I found (one that surely looked like he had yeast and the other I wasn't too sure about) today and yesterday I just applied a bit of betadine to their beak and the inside part of their lower and upper beak. I tried to just gently move it over those areas like you said. I know that's not enough but that's the least I can do for now until I'm the position to help them better.

Marina said you have to give Nystatin for 5-7 days as well. Do you or Marina know of a faster way to treat yeast?

I'll stick to ACV water twice a week as well then.

I think I found something very similar to the water feeder you linked me to: here and here. I think the first one should be good enough. What do you think?

How often you recommend cleaning the floor? As for chicken vitamins, what do you think about this product here? I think it meets the requirement you explained while dismissing the vitamin products I shared earlier.

That's so kind of you. But I really am both thankful and grateful to both you and Marina for all your help and support. 

P.S. Is the Nystatin in tablet form or liquid form? And I'd like to ask the same question to you too: Do I need to feed it to the pigeons or just "apply" it on the yeast area?

*Two New Pigeons*

I'm attaching the pics of two different pigeons. One of them (the smaller one) seems to be a clear case of yeast infection, while the other I'm not sure. He has his beak stuck open though so does that mean canker? And on that note does an open beak like that almost always mean canker? If you guys can take a look and let me know how to go about treating them when I see them again it might be very helpful if they do visit again.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Looks like canker to me. The Nyststin is a thickish yellow fluid, but I think you might have problems getting the stuff in India. Also sold as Mycostatin or Canstat. Yeast can occur along the digestive system, also in the crop. So it's important for the birds to swallow it. The dose is 30 000 units per 100 gr birdweight. So you need to check the strength and give accordingly. Normally there's 100 000 units per ml, so for a pigeon weighing 300 gr, one would give 0.9 ml twice a day on an empty crop.

The acv in the water will help to prevent yeast, but not cure it. Antibiotics can cause a yeast infection as the good bacteria also gets wiped out.

Why don't you volunteer at the rescue centre for a week or so and try to learn as much as you can? Thanks for what you are doing for the pigeons, you have a kind heart. We need more people like you in this world.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

I need to share something important and urgent here. I found a sick pigeon today who was likely suffering from canker. There were the seeds I feed pigeons stuck in his mouth. Not able to eat anything, it looked like he was later having trouble flying too.

I tried to give 50mg metro dose but some fragments were stuck at the same place in his mouth as the seeds. So I took him to a vet who was still open as his condition looked bad and he was looking very weak. Unfortunately, the vet tried to remove his "lesions" or infection using some object and he started bleeding heavily. The vet said the infection was severe -- which I doubt as unlike the other pigeons with severe canker, his beak was just slightly open and not wide open -- so they had to remove the infection.

They later said it's hard to say if he will survive. Looking at him I think I might not see him alive tomorrow morning (it's 10:21pm here right now). The pigeon's condition was bad, but it worsened a lot after the bleeding incident. Now he's not even opening his eyes. I remember Marina once mentioning somewhere that they can bleed to death if we try to remove their lesions or something. Was the vet just an idiot or is this a standard way of treatment by vets assuming it was a severe case?

Both the medicines the vet prescribed (including metrodinazole) is in liquid form and asked me to give it to the pigeon for 5 days.

I'm attaching his pics and hoping against hope some of you will share something to somehow bring this poor pigeon back to life. He's breathing right now, but that's all he's doing. He's barely even moving. I feel devastated by this and feel like I should never try treating a pigeon ever again. He would have probably died an easier death if I hadn't interfered and tried to help him, which has apparently did him way more harm than good (if any good at all).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The vet is an idiot! One should never try and remove those growths. Hard to say if he will survive. All you can do is keep him as stress free as possible in a quiet spot.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> The vet is an idiot! One should never try and remove those growths. Hard to say if he will survive. All you can do is keep him as stress free as possible in a quiet spot.


Thank you for your quick response. It's terrifying to get the confirmation what the vet did was a mistake and it's going to be hard for the pigeon to survive.

He's barely even moving and has his eyes closed right since the vet visit. Never once opened his eyes after the vet treated him (or rather made him bleed). I'll try to make sure it stays quiet around him but it looks like it doesn't even matter to him as he's responding to nothing now. No sound, vibration, or even touch.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I perfectly understand how you feel because years ago I had a similar experience. My poor pigeon Susanna died because the vet removed the growths.

Here you can read my experience:









Remembering Susanna


In the morning of Monday 21 August my sweet Susanna died at the vet clinic. I can't keep for crying while I'm writing to you but I really want to remember her sharing her story with you. Even if she shared my life for just a week, she has taken a special place in my heart. I found her in the...




www.pigeons.biz





I know it's hard but please don't feel guilty.
Since that experience, I am trying my best to learn as much as possible about pigeons illnesses and treatment and when possible I treat pigeons on my own because I know that I do that with heart. Vets treat them for job.

If in future you will see a pigeon with seeds or meds stuck into the throat you could gently remove them with a wet q-tip (you must do that in a very gently and slow way).

Please don't say that you will never treat again a pigeon because they need your help. You know, I felt too in a horrible way, I felt devastated, I thought I killed Susanna bringing her to the vet clinic. But I'm still here helping pigeons. I still miss her.
The thing you have to do now is learn as much as possible about pigeons. Also remember that we are all here for you, we will be glad to help you. You can even PM me when you need help or only an advice.

The only thing you could do now is keeping him warm and in the dim light. Let him rest for the night.

I will pray for him and for you too.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Quick update: The pigeon made it through the night and looks a little better today. I even saw him open his eyes for a second or two. He was moving as well. But again closed his eyes. Do we have hope now? Can I dip the end of his beak into water to make him drink it or will that give him stress?

And should I give him the liquid meds (including liquid metro) the vet gave or the metro tablets we have at home. I had tried to give him 50mg yesterday, not sure how much actually went into his stomach.

Marina suggested I should give him soft foods. Is there anything other than frozen green peas I can give him? We don't have that at home so I was wondering if I should try to get it right now or give him something else.

I got a lot of support in you both. I really really thank you for it. I'll reply to your posts a little later after looking after him a little as he hopefully gets better.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

I've ordered frozen green peas and they will be delivered within 2-3 hours now. The pigeon now has his eyes open and is moving a little. There seems to be a lot more hope now! Please guide me when you can about what should I do next.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

He looks terrified and would not let me open his beak. Maybe it's paining. Is it ok to forcefully open his beak and feed him those defrosted green peas I just got for him? I've attached the latest pic of his dropping. Looks like something is terribly wrong... Please advice soon.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can dip the tip of his beak in a small bowl of water, but not over the nostrils otherwise he will aspirate. Do this a couple of times until he drinks. Did the vet remove all the growths? You will need to check inside his beak. His throat must still be hurting a lot. I'm just worried that feeding peas might start the bleeding again. Do you have baby cereal (that does not contain a lot of sugar and milkproducts)? If so, you can dripple little bits with a syringe into his mouth for him to swallow. Even better if you can get the syringe past his breathing hole to give him food. Only feed a small amount, maybe start with 5 ml. He is starving, and too much food now won't do him good When that food gets digested (you will notice a change in his droppings) you can feed more. Is the droppings green and creamy? If so, he is producing starvation droppings.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Saw your photo and yes, droppings no good. Best way will be to cover him with a lightweight cloth, put him on your lap against your body and only let the beak stick out. When the eyes are covered, they are a bit easier to handle.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

I did that already (dipping the end of his beak into water) but he doesn't really drink. I'm afraid of opening his beak as it looks like it will hurt him a lot but looks like that's the only option I have now.

I don't have baby cereal at home, should I get it from a local store? Can I feed him anything else I'll find at home?

So I need to cover his entire body including the eyes and then check his beak?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, only let the beak stick out. Otherwise, remove the skin from the pea, and try feeding him halfed peas. I still think the cereal is a better option.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Ok I'll go to a local shop to buy cereal. I'm thinking of getting one that only contains wheat? The others all have milk or fruits added to them which I think will not be good for him?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Ok, that will be fine. If you can get Nestum, plain brand, that will be ok.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm really happy to hear that he made it through the night.

If there is a pet shop next to your home, you could buy a bird vitamin supplement (of course, in this case it does not matter if it is for small amounts of water), you need to help him to get stronger. If possible try to buy vitamin containing even iron. Try to ask to the pet shop if they have baby bird formula (the ones for seeds - eater). If you can't find it human baby cereals are ok, if you remember I told you about them in a previous post. If you can't find the cereals at the local supermarket you could look for them in a pharmacy (here all pharmacies sell human babies products).

You can put the vitamins in his drinking water and even in the water that you will use to prepare the human baby cereals or the baby bird formula.

Please keep us updated.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I forgot... Here you can buy birds products (vitamins, etc) even in places like agricultural supply stores, garden centers and do-it-yourself stores (of course, the ones which sell also products for animals). Not only in pet shops. Some supermarkets also have a few products for animals (cheap vitamins, etc).
If there the situation is similar it could be maybe easier to find a vitamin supplement.
He is surely very weak and debilitated, vitamins would be helpful.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Can one of your family members help you with your pigeon? If yes, it will be easier to check inside his beak. I think this method is also less scaring for him.

The first person keeps the pigeon with one hand.
The second person kindly opens the beak. I am used to open the upper beak with thumb and index finger of my left hand (I can open it even with just my thumb) and the lower part with thumb and index finger of right hand.
The first person keeps a flashlight (a smartphone works very well) with the other hand and illuminates the mouth of the bird. The second person watches inside the mouth while he/she is keeping the beak open.
I attach a pic (just to get you an idea): you can see how the first person keeps the pigeon against his body (in place of the small "shovel" that we use to hand feed seeds imagine a flashlight).

If a third person could help you, it would be the perfect method for giving meds in an easy and safer way.
The first person keeps the bird as I explained or with both hands, the second ones opens the beak and the third one gives the meds (in a very slow and careful way) by the syringe.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

I truly thank you Colombina for caring so much about the pigeon and me and praying for us. I'm sorry I couldn't update you sooner as I was completely occupied with caring for the pigeon. I even skipped or delayed meals to care for him and couldn't work at all for the past 2-3 days, but it was all in vain as the pigeon eventually died. I'm not sure if he would have died an easier death without my help though, that makes me regret so much more.

I regret taking him to the idiot vet. However, I was surprised and happy to see that he survived through the night. I regret not making sure he gets the full 50mg metro tablet dose right on the first day after the vet night. I could only give a very small part of it as I had added it to the baby cereal I was handfeeding him. I gave the dose to him yesterday night but not sure if that was too late.

As I told you in the PM too, Marina very generously and kindly helped me all along, despite me being annoying and asking her tens of questions on Whatsapp.

I had managed to give him around 15ml of the baby cereal yesterday and his droppings were starting to look better yesterday night. In fact his latest droppings before his death seemed very different than his droppings all through this time.

I'm attaching all the pics and videos for you to see if you can make something out of it. May be tell me where I went wrong. But the thing I want to know the most is whether he died of aspiration. When I wasn't able to feed him much putting the cereal on to his beak, I started putting the syringe deep into his throat and feeding him slightly larger doses (around 0.1ml or sometimes slightly more every time I put the syringe in his mouth).

I'm sure there are a lot more things I want to say, but I'll keep myself from sharing every little thing that probably doesn't mean anything now that he's gone. He fought so hard but maybe I just wasn't good enough.

P.S. I've put them on Google Drive and will be sending you a link.


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

Hi @MumbaiPigeoner - how is the little one doing? I’m so shocked the vet removed the growths, I am praying they are still with you and regaining strength. How did the peas go?


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Joeyspesh said:


> Hi @MumbaiPigeoner - how is the little one doing? I’m so shocked the vet removed the growths, I am praying they are still with you and regaining strength. How did the peas go?


Hey Joeyspesh, thanks for replying.

He passed away two nights later as mentioned in my previous post here. I'm thinking of leaving the vet a terrible review on his Google My Business listing. I feel like she should not be let away easily after doing that horrible thing to the poor pigeon. If she didn't know what to do or wasn't sure, she should have just denied treating him. I'm just afraid leaving a review may mean she would never treat pigeons again, and not everybody knows about this forum to care for sick pigeons themselves.


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

I've a few other sick pigeons that I think will need some help soon too. One of them has canker, with the throat being almost completely blocked. Marina helped me with all the information I'd probably need for now to treat him. I regret not keeping him as I was terrified by the death of the first pigeon and didn't want to see another one dead in my care.

He did manage to swallow like 3-4 seeds which was surprising to me as his throat looked almost completely blocked by the whitish/yellowish canker growth. I dissolved one spartrix tablet in water, and applied some of that water on his growth using a cotton bud. Just dabbed the bud on his growth a bit. I remember Colombina saying that she thinks the contact of spartrix with their growths helps.

I then put a part of the tablet near the growths by breaking them into small parts. Made him drink water. He wanted to eat more of those seeds but I didn't let him as I was afraid they might get blocked. I regret that and think he could have managed some as he did it before, albeit not without difficulty and taking too much time.

He looked very weak too and was probably struggling to fly. I first tried to see if he can fly and made him fly away as I didn't have the courage to keep him, but when I later saw him stumble when landing on the floor I thought I should take him in. Unfortunately when I went to pick him up again he flied off at that point. I think I've been an idiot again. I so wish I see him again today so that I can see if the partial spartrix treatment helped treat his growths (they say spartrix can work in just a day - though some members here have said it doesn't) and feed him. I'll definitely take him in today if he hasn't improved much.

I've received the spartrix and the all in 1 powder I had ordered from the global pigeon store. Hope it's fine to put the all in 1 powder in their water just as a small preventive measure.

*Pigeon #2*

Another pigeon that visits us seems to have got pigeon pox. I first saw him with a thick whitish substance on his beak around 6 days back. It has since grown much thicker. You can see him in the video I've put on here on Google Drive (why I don't see any option to attach it here though other people seem to be doing it?). Last I saw him yesterday evening and his pox looked even bigger. He has his beak quite a bit open now and I'm sure he has been having quite some difficulty eating, if not being able to eat at all. If I see him I'll try to handfeed him today. Can you put two sick pigeons in one cage?

*Pigeon #3*

So there's another pigeon who seems to have trouble eating too. He's also weak though it has been quite a few days since he's been like that. The clear problem I see with him is that his upper and lower beak are a little misaligned, and don't fit each other properly as they usually do. He has to peck on the seeds for a few times most of the time before he's able to pick up one. I try to handfeed him (take some seeds in my hand and offer them to him and he eats directly from my hand) whenever I see him. But the other pigeons keep interfering and he usually doesn't get much.

I'm afraid he might die soon too. Should I check him for canker too? Although once the seed is in his mouth he doesn't seem to have trouble swallowing it and it has been a long while he's been like that so I think if it was canker it should have got worse, no? However, I don't remember if I treated him for canker before. I had given the metro tablet dose to a pigeon with canker around 2-3 weeks back, but just did it for 2 days. I'll have to find out if he's the same pigeon I had tried to treat before.

He has lost one of his eyes too, which really adds to his troubles I think.

*Water feeder*

Also please let me know if this water feeder here on Amazon or a similar product would be good enough for them to drink from. I need to start giving them the ACV water too. Too many sick pigeons these days I just may not be able to handle.

Any help you can send my way here is much appreciated. I thank you all for your time and support. I'm fascinated by how this small community of people have so much love for these otherwise outrageously neglected birds which most people hate.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The water feeder will work fine. I think you should start marking the pigeons and keep a record of the meds you are giving each one.


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

Oh @MumbaiPigeoner I didn’t realize the pigeon had passed, I’m so sorry!

i don’t think pigeons who are sick should be kept in the same cage, as you can’t be sure who’s contagious. The last thing you want is pigeons passing illness to one another.

I’m no expert but the growth on the beak doesn’t look like pox to me. Pox usually has many more lesions. The video isn’t super clear, I wonder if you can try to take a clear picture?

I read many reviews that told me about products which completely removed canker in one day, but that hasn’t been verified by anyone I have spoken to and I think it’s just marketing. With the spartrix paste I was making mine with lemon juice and 1/4 spartrix powder but you have to be so careful because it can damage the healthy beak tissue too. That pigeon looks like he needs spartrix every day, for maybe a week or two, (if it’s canker?) if it is indeed wet pox then maybe aciclovir tablets will help? (They helped Xena) ...

Can you get TCP liquid there? When I used it with the pox on Xena it helped dry and disinfect them no end!

I think you already know this but just because it was given me as advice I will also pass on, when managing sick pigeons it’s vital to adhere to scrupulous hand hygiene yourself, and make sure you are cleaning their cage and area often. Since birds can transmit disease/illness/virus to one another very easily.

I think Marinas idea of keeping a record is a good idea. Can I ask, are you just catching them and treating them from the wild flock? Or they are at your place? If they are at your place I think you need to grab more cages and supplies! 🥰


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

These pigeons are wild ones that come and go. Unfortunately the poster does not have room to keep the sick ones. He sent me a video, they are so tame. Eating from his hand. That's why I suggested marking them and keep a record.

Pox not always so bad as your little one had. Sometimes they only get a few growths on the legs and feet. I still wonder why some only get it in mild form and in others so severe.


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

Marina B said:


> These pigeons are wild ones that come and go. Unfortunately the poster does not have room to keep the sick ones. He sent me a video, they are so tame. Eating from his hand. That's why I suggested marking them and keep a record.
> 
> Pox not always so bad as your little one had. Sometimes they only get a few growths on the legs and feet. I still wonder why some only get it in mild form and in others so severe.


I know Xenas was bad, but i didn’t know it was possible to get only in the beak? You learn a née thing every day! That growth doesn’t look like Xenas at all, at any stage!


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Marina B said:


> The water feeder will work fine. I think you should start marking the pigeons and keep a record of the meds you are giving each one.





Joeyspesh said:


> Thanks. I ordered it today but it would take a few days before it's delivered to my home.
> 
> Oh @MumbaiPigeoner I didn’t realize the pigeon had passed, I’m so sorry!
> 
> ...


I didn't see that pigeon today so couldn't take more videos. I was busy treating another with canker today, but don't think I did a good job there either. Hopefully the spartrix I gave him with the baby cereal will do him some good.

Do aciclovir tablets help with pox? Based on the small amount of research I did there doesn't seems to be a standard treatment for pox...

I'm afraid we don't get TCP liquid here. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely keep that in mind when treating them. On that note though, they do eat from the floor they poop on all day. Can that cause canker in them, or any other infections?

No, I just catch them and release them back soon. Most times just in a few hours after giving them the meds and sometimes handfeeding them if needed. I think there are hundreds of them visiting us daily for food. It's extremely hard to care for all the sick pigeons I find unfortunately. But it's also not easy to just ignore them and see them struggling. Sometimes makes me feel I should stop feeding them as well. They eat in a very small space so as you said, the risk of infection spreading probably increases. Secondly, I think they may have a hard time if our family goes on a vacation or something as they seem to have gotten a bit dependent on us for good. I also can't see sick pigeons and keep ignoring them, and unfortunately I can't really treat them all either. 



Marina B said:


> These pigeons are wild ones that come and go. Unfortunately the poster does not have room to keep the sick ones. He sent me a video, they are so tame. Eating from his hand. That's why I suggested marking them and keep a record.
> 
> Pox not always so bad as your little one had. Sometimes they only get a few growths on the legs and feet. I still wonder why some only get it in mild form and in others so severe.


How I do mark them safely without causing any kind of discomfort to them?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Safest way will be wirh acrylic (water soluble paint). Just a small dot on the breast, or back of the head. Use different colours for each pigeon. It will eventually wear off, but will stick long enough while you are treating them.


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

Aciclovir tabs are anti viral - they do help, along with aciclovir cream (Zovirax) ... they prevent the pox from spreading further! It made a huge difference when Xena started to take them!


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

I think they also help prevent the secondary infection? I’ll ask the rehabber who’s been helping me and let you know the specifics!


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## MumbaiPigeoner (Oct 20, 2020)

Joeyspesh said:


> Aciclovir tabs are anti viral - they do help, along with aciclovir cream (Zovirax) ... they prevent the pox from spreading further! It made a huge difference when Xena started to take them!





Joeyspesh said:


> I think they also help prevent the secondary infection? I’ll ask the rehabber who’s been helping me and let you know the specifics!


I'm really sorry I never saw these posts here. I think I never received a notification for them like I used to before.

Thanks for sharing what's working for you with pox. There are now many pigeons here infected with pox and it's really concerning. We have a very small balcony where we feed them so the chances of the spread of pox seem to be very high. But many of them don't seem to have it too bad, especially for now. I'm sure some of them may be struggling a lot though. Unfortunately there seem to be so many of them with pox now that giving them meds daily doesn't even seem like a possibility...


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## anzmay7 (12 mo ago)

Marina B said:


> Rather try to get the metronidazole in tablet form, 50 mg once a day for 7 to 10 days. We don't get spartrix in our country, but I doubt 1 tablet will cure them. I think the treatment is 5 days minimim.
> 
> You won't need to handfeed them for 7 days, usually the metro works quite fast and they will start eating seeds within a day or two. For severe cases you can actually give 100 mg first dose and thereafter 50 mg.
> 
> ...


I've got a question I have an adult size pigeon still squeaking which is a baby it's got light pink on his beak he's got all the signs of still being a baby if I hadn't taken him in from the coop he separates himself from the other pigeons they continue to Peck him I brought him inside hand fed him for 2 days and he's now eating on his own though he's still not able to stand up on his legs will he recover from this


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He might have a lack in calcium. Get calcium with added Vit D3 and add this to his drinking water for a couple of days. Also get a general vitamin supplement for him.


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