# Pecking, Biting: Your Opinions and Experiences?



## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Hello from Poopzilla and Jonathan in Paris, France!

We've got a question for the good members of the forum that concerns the phenomenon of biting and pecking: as Poopzilla has gradually morphed into a saucy young male, he has developed the habit of following me around like a little shadow, all the while snapping at and biting my bare feet. Along with this, one of his very favorite activities is to come running across the room when he notices that one of my hands is low enough to be within biting range. He'll spend long minutes nipping different parts as hard as he can. At the same time, I'll gently scratch or caresse his head and neck with one of my free fingers, softly immobilize his beak between a thumb and forefinger and playfully 'fence' with him until he tires of what apparently has become a game for him.

I've tried everything I could think of to try and calm him down and get into more gentler ways of expressing our relationship, but it's clear he's not having any of it: he's like a cat that prefers mock battles to just curling up and being petted. 

Personally, I can live with this - and it's certain that he can too, but my question for those who've had more experience with live-in pigeons is this: what do you think is going through that little head when he does this? Is it really a rough form of affection and/or play, or is Poopzilla actually dreaming of having a few of my toes or fingers for breakfast, lunch or dinner?

As I've mentioned in earlier posts, I believe that these birds (and animals in general) are endowed with a great sense of infantile imagination: almost anything can become anything else in the context of their imaginative 'flights' of fancy. 

Recently, as Poopzilla entered young adulthood and began to discover his sexuality, anything longer than wide was fair game for courtship. I even had the rather surprising experience of his repeated and oh-so-delicate love-making with my foot....after which he would strut away, circle the room a few times in triumph - and then come back and attack it as if it was now his arch-rival!

Never a dull moment with this guy, but as I say, I'd be really interested in hearing from other members as to their experiences and interpretations of the affective/aggeesive behavior of their own house pigeons - as well as any modifications thereof over time.

Thanks in advance for your input - I'm certain that there's a lot to be shared and learned concerning this subject


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryannon, 



Yahhhh...I think what is going on is a confluence of emotions and interests and imaginary play which he is experiencing, and dramatising with you.


Likely he is somewhat considering you his 'Mate' and is 'driving' you, as if to scold you into a Nest Making phase to consumate the courtship and get on with things.


This is all of course completely naive and widely imaginary as you realize, but is typical for one of his age, when there is no other source of interaction but the 'human' caretaker.

Grabbing his Beak in almost any manner is also going to be confused with Kissing, at some level of his welling hormones, as would preening him, so...


Oh well...whatchagunnado...?


Have you thought to adopt some cute little domesticated non-releaseable Hen, and gently intoduce her to the situation..?


Once one gets used to one set of poops, 'two' is easy as Pie...


Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Great analysis, Phil, and I certainly hear you about introducing a mate, but remember that P'zilla is unfortunately PMV-impaired: he can't get off the ground, and when he tries, he's like a drunken helicopter pilot. Bringing a female into the mix would either mean finding a lady who can't fly either (kind of a sad but nice marriage, I guess) or imposing a life indoors on a bird used to the liberty of flight. While it's possible that she'd accomodate herself to the situation, I'm not certain that I'd like to do this to a flyer.

There's also the question of P'zilla's idea of his own identity: from time to time I let a few of the local ferals in to clean up Pz's leftover seeds. His reaction - logical enough considering that he considers to be on his own territory - is to attack everybody in sight. He never gives up - unlike ferals used to living in groups, who'll eventually settle down and just go about the business of eating.

If I did introduce a female, I'm not certain that he'd ever accept her: my feeling is that he's bonded with me and that for him, other pigeons are just seen as nuisances to be gotten rid of as quickly as possible.

Am I projecting my own feelings here? It's possible: the only way to know for sure is to try to introduce a partner. But each thing in its own time: I have a feeling that we have plenty, and that things will unfold as they should. If a sweet young thing should decide to fly in here some day and settle down with the Great Poopzilla, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

And as you say, when you've gotten used to one pooper, you've already accomplished the hardest part: a second one should cause barely a ripple of inconvenience.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ROFL, Jonathan! You have described Squeakers to an almost perfect "P!"

Squeaks was always a biter, pecker and a grabber. He too attacks my bare feet (until I remember to put my shoes _back_ on!) And, I would also grab his beak, at which time he would squat down and I would be able to scratch him, sometimes under his wings. LATER, I find out that this is "mating" stuff!! Oh whoopee...NOW I find out!

Time passes. We now enter another "phase" of pigeon behavior. Squeaks, long ago, accepted me as his mate. I do not wish to get a hen because of the cats. I don't want to disturb the "status quo." Squeaks and the cats have their "arrangement." SQUEAKS IS THE KING and feels free to chase them whenever he happens to feel like it! 

One day, Cindy (AZWhitefeather) gave me a basket and a wooden egg. Squeaks now alternates between "mate" mode and "daddy" mode. In mate mode he allows me to pet him often and follows wherever I go. In daddy mode, he will sit on his egg in his basket for HOURS and only leaves to poop, eat and take an occasional bath! Daddy modes last longer than mate modes, much to the cat's appreciation!

Sooo, I commisserate and understand your situation...welcome to Poopzilla's world...you are the best thing to that bird since the wheel was invented!     

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ryannon, 


Oh yea, I meant ONLY a 'Non Releaseable' Hen...and this could mean one who flies well enough for indoors but not well enough for the Wild or Feral worlds, or, a 'Floor Bird'...or something in-between.


I have some non-releaseable ones here, who are wangley wacky PPMV survivors, and they manage wonderfully, sometimes flying Backwards or doing their 'Helicopterings' and, they yearn for Babys or Baby-Making, same as anyone.

They accept mates, build Nests...but usually the PPMV survivor Hens are sterile, and the Males I am not sure about but I think the males can make Babys with a non-PPMV Hen. Actually, I now they can.


As long as they have the determination or will power and minimal co-ordinations to stay on her back long enough for the deed, everyone is happy...


Your's is in a sort of 'make do' situation, what with no other Pigeons, and no amenible Hens, and all them Hormones starting up and so on, so...

No guarentee that just any Hen would do of course, but, nothing ventured, nothing gained...


Anyway, it is very fulfilling for 'floor Birds' or the margainally able but oytherwise Healthy, to have Mates, build floor Nests, make Babys if they can...and they still have and enjoy all the rest of Life's offerings in their House-Bird context...

Good to set them out side now and then, someplace safe, in a Cage, for them to get direct unfiltered Sunshine, and or also for them to be close to their Wild Feral close grazing bretherin.


They can live a long time, 8, 10, 15, 20 years or more you know...so...


Babys being born and raised in one's midst where you can be the 'Uncle' are such a delight...you take them our for successive forays to be socialized to the Wild Feral others, the parents soon enough welcomd the break for your chipping in...and once ready, release them, since their Parents can not do that part...works out very well for everyone...and you do not get over-crowded...


Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Phil and Shi, I really love your suggestions, information and anecdotes....especially the anecdotes! 

The vision of Squeaks chasing the cats around is absolutely hilarious!

Phil's devotion to doing all he can to enable his birds to live as complete lives as possible is also very touching in its kindness, understanding and compassion: making the world a better place, pigeon by pigeon... He must have an incredible sense of empathy for them.

A little OT, but relative to nests and sundry, and as I mentioned in another post, I recently acquired a lovely little nest-sized hand-made wicker basket with - of all things - a carved duck's head at one end. P'zilla has totally adopted it as his principal residence and spends much time in it. The idea of dropping an 'artificial' egg into it is one I'll try one of these days when I sense that he's ready for it.

I also placed an approximately foot-square mirror next to it, enabling Mr. Poopzilla to hold long conversations with his own reflection. 

I also got the idea of stuffing an old sock with several plastic bags to create a pigeon-sized toy...Poopzilla has not been paying it the (mating) attention I expected, although at odd moments he'll give it a few pecks, as if to remind it that he's the boss and perhaps to discourage it from getting any ideas of trying to vie for my own attention and affection.

He's also increasingly following me into the bathroom and hanging around the bathtub - particularly when I shower. Tonight he actually tried to fly up and into it. I presume his intention was to shower down with me, since he's already familiar with it as the place where I bathe him. 

In fact, the other day I let the water run and let the tub fill up a little more than usual; after spashing around and doing his usual washing-up routine, he made his way down to the 'deep end' near the faucets - where he discovered that he could no longer touch bottom with his feet. 

Instead of panicking, he simply folded up his legs a bit, and with the greatest of serenity, started floating around exactly like a duck! I'm now thinking of buying a plastic or rubber one to keep him company.

Like I never tire of saying: never a dull moment with these guys....


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Do be careful about any any kind of Water which is deeper than he can stand...even though they can float for a while, they will get water logged after a while, and could be a danger if he was by himself...


Very dangerous for young Ducks also..!


But Pigeons do love their Baths, and for whatever reason, they like the Water 'cold' too..! Even in Winter...


Some of my PPMV Survivor ones, or other ones,I sometimes scoop up and tuck them into my shirt front if I have some Computer things to do where I will more or less stay put a while...they like the warmth in there, and usually just doze or fall asleep...sometimes I stick two of them in there,one on each side.

Babys like this of course, but adults who are ill, injured or a little 'off' like it too...especially after a good meal, a good series of drinks of Water, they appreciate a secluded, warm, comfortable snooze same as anyone might..!


Now that I mention it, I recon I am about ready for some snooze time myself.

I sure wish some Giant Bird would tuck me under so I could be all warm and dreamy and humid and just drift off a while..!

Oh well...


Nighty night...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Casual snap shot of 'Big Girl'...my second PPMV survivor, ( she might be my first AND second, since she resembles exacalty a Bird I had found and had a while twelve years earlier who I released after months of recovery, from an illness I did not know anything about at the time, but which I now know was almost certainly the PPMV ) and my most long term House Bird of three and a half years now. Image sees her napping on a low item ( my old Lap Top! ) in the general evening dim of things here...

She has one missing Toe, and Feathered Legs and all round Feathers fit for a Russian Winter...she has the densest fullest Feathers and underfeathers of anyone here.


She was like a "statue" for many weeks when I got her, that or massive 'Star Gazing' troubles when she would move at all, but by Gosh she could eat, somehow...and I was sure glad of that. She ate a full Tea Cup of Seeds a-day, every day...


She Helicopters a few times a week...sometimes flies a little, and does so more like a Humming Bird than a Pigeon.

She is all Black but for some almost Grey seen when her Tail is fanned out, on the small of her Back...




Anyway...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Yep, Jonathan, that's why I call Phil "Dr. Doolittle!" He certainly communicates with his birds! AND, that's not even counting his pij techniques with very colorful names...

With Poopzilla, you might let him take a shower with you or with you just directing the water (no soap, of course). 

Squeaks takes showers (sometimes with me and sometimes without) AND baths...Sometimes I think he would stand under the water all day if I let him! He will usually poop when he's had enough!  

Shi
& Squeaks (who sends greeting to da Pooper...and says that he is doing a _fine_ job training you and to keep up the great work!


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

*



Recently, as Poopzilla entered young adulthood and began to discover his sexuality, anything longer than wide was fair game for courtship. I even had the rather surprising experience of his repeated and oh-so-delicate love-making with my foot....after which he would strut away, circle the room a few times in triumph - and then come back and attack it as if it was now his arch-rival!

Click to expand...

*Try wearing those big animal slippers and see how he does. Sorry, I just had a visual and thought it was funny.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Ryannon,

The rehabber Christa in Germany has a blind male pigeon, Johannes, who has a healthy mate. They have had offspring; how many, I don't know. She flies out everyday for exercise, and he has what appears to be a mesh-wire cage about a foot or so high, on the ground, which was intended for gerbils or some small rodent or such. She goes through an opening in the top. He is in a cage about half a square meter in area, so that he can locate his food and water easily, and so that his territory is understood by the other pigeons. He is on the ground, out of doors (in the outdoor aviary, that is), in an aviary closed off on three sides. I don't know if the fourth side is closed off at night; I don't think so. They tolerate sub-freezing weather, though. There are hawks or falcons in the nearby woods.

Larry


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I have a youngster almost 3 months old that appears to also think pecking is a fun game. When I go down to feed, I always hang around and do a bit of cleaning or just loitering to watch the birds. he always comes and sits on the end of a shelf right next to me. It took me a while to figure out that he wanted me to position my arm closer so he could peck and pluck at it. Extremely cute once you figure it out; he consistently comes over to "play"

All of my birds love to gather round my feet & pluck at my boots/laces/pants leg/socks. That's cute too!

[shrug] I guess this pecking is just a fun pigeon game?


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