# not doing a red rose anymore



## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Well I'm not doing a red rose anymore. I got in contact with a club member that said that there shouldn't be a back roof were the birds can land on. He told me a simple lean to shed style design is what I want. He said that way you see all the birds on the roof when the fly home. I took his word for it. My set up is 8ft square. In the back its 8 ft tall and 6 ft in the front. A 2 ft slope. I will continue to post pics as I build.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

When i figure out how to post a pic, or when someone tells me how I will lol....


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

The structure is just being supported by those cross braces for now. all walls will be up tomorrow. Im going to use tin for the roof and havent decided the color. Im thinking top body white, and bottom 4ft red, but undecided. this set up is going in the back corner to block those neighbors out of our view lol.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Newbee, Posting pics is easy. Just sign up for photo bucket up load your pic their, this is a free sight and it will save you pics, a while back our computer crashed and we lost 10,000 pics, but all the ones on photo bucket were saved, you can get a free ap and your pic will automatically download to there. once your pics are there you just copy or click on the img beside the pic and it will say copy then just paste it to your post. If you keep the both photo bucket and pigeon talk up on the comp you can post pic after pic as fast as you can click the mouse, just go back and forth. I started using my phone because all I have to do is take the pic and then go to the sight and they are there. saves all the downloading steps. I can't bring your pics up.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

newbiebulldoger said:


> The structure is just being supported by those cross braces for now. all walls will be up tomorrow. Im going to use tin for the roof and havent decided the color. Im thinking top body white, and bottom 4ft red, but undecided. this set up is going in the back corner to block those neighbors out of our view lol.


Cant see pics


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

most recent pic. just taken. the rain is holding up the build. Im still sticking with the red rose aviary design. there is a little dilemma on how im going to support it though. any suggestions?


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

i still need to add the trim, put the aviary up, and then paint. Im going with a battle ship gray and white trim. Im knocking down the trees to the side of it, but ill leave the pine trees alone. All trees within 20 ft of the tree will be taken out with no MERCY! lol


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Real Nice loft. Newbie


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Real Nice loft. Newbie




thanks, i will post again when its complete.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

The roof is 12ft clear and galvanized. I was able to use 10ft for the roof giving me 2ft overhand on the front and back. the rest of the 2ft i used on the front. I have it to keep rain, snow, excessive wind out, but just right for ventilation. 





almost there all i need now is the aviary and the paint.


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## Zippy (Nov 20, 2011)

That looks really nice. Love me a new loft build!


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Zippy said:


> That looks really nice. Love me a new loft build!


its been fun so far! ive been excited about it since i started. Its nice to see it taking shape.


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## Zippy (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing it as you move along.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I hope your roof don't sag, If it snows a lot where you are. You should have the roof rafters up on their edge, can't ever understand why everyone lays their roof rafters on their side. You can fix it easily, just put a 2x4 edgeways under the ones that are flat you won't be sorry if you do.


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## Zippy (Nov 20, 2011)

I think most non builder types place the rafters on their sides because they are trying to lessen the gap. It seems simpler to lay them flat rather than notching, etc. I agree the strongest is on edge and a simple T underneath will make it almost as good just uses twice the wood.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

its defiantly not the way I would want my house built lol, and I thought about doing a bird mouth cut on the 2x4x10's standing up rather than the way I did it. Im setting up the interior were there will be a T beam running split down the middle. it will run from back to front. this will serve 2 purposes, 1 protecting it from sag, and 2 separation of young/old in season.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Your Right, the support on the inside will work fine, but for everyone else who build there lofts with the rafters on the side. It will sage if you think about a foot or so of wet snow on there. That weight is 20 or more times what a person weighs.


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## Zippy (Nov 20, 2011)

I think your doing a great job regardless. Keep going I want to see more.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Your Right, the support on the inside will work fine, but for everyone else who build there lofts with the rafters on the side. It will sage if you think about a foot or so of wet snow on there. That weight is 20 or more times what a person weighs.


Thanks for the advise. I'm in the Midwest so I will take your warnings as good advise. I will post picks soon again. Almost done with the paint and the aviary. After that ill get my butt working on the inside lol.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I didn't want to tell you what to do, just save you a problems down the road. I can see that you or someone has skill and knowledge of building. The loft does look nice. If you look at my lofts, I laid the 2x4s flat and put another one under it for strength, tee pattern


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I didn't want to tell you what to do, just save you a problems down the road. I can see that you or someone has skill and knowledge of building. The loft does look nice. If you look at my lofts, I laid the 2x4s flat and put another one under it for strength, tee pattern


Good stuff! There are so many ways to do it. I'm thinking of running a beam (2x4) from the floor right up to the ceiling. 3 of them down the center and screw it into the top existing 2x4 that is there. This will counter act the weight.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

That will work, I you want your door wider or at a different place than where the roof trusses are run a 2x4 across all the roof trusses flat, then you can put your studs anywhere, essentially making a load bearing wall. When you build your next one and you will, run the roof trusses across your loft, then you can put the tin on without the strips and your roof will sit lower on the building. The way they run on the red rose plan.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

A look out the mask 












all painted up












I CALL IT CLONE CAPTAIN REX FROM STAR WARS! lol


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Real Real nice job. Now quit posting pics and get them doors and wire on there. LOL Cool loft, perdy too


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Real Real nice job. Now quit posting pics and get them doors and wire on there. LOL Cool loft, perdy too


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Very nice job


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Very nice job



Thanks! Im still using alot of the red rose ideas at the moment. the aviary is the same, and im utilizing the cheap drop trap system, and im going to add the vents under the aviary when i get a chance. im a little stumped at the moment on how im going to set the inside up. were you see the support beams in the middle, there will be a swing open door in that partition.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Im still going to brace the roof with some 2X4 standing up right underneath the existing 2x4 that are there. One on each side of the support beam some time before winter. Im also going to add on a screen door on the inside of the existing door. it will be made out of the same horse panel material, that way i can leave it open during the day, and however trustworthy it seems, at night too. I will have to determine the quality of that before doing it. last thing i need is a fox/coyote getting in there, but thats it. also im uprooting 3-4 pine trees there and moving them elsewhere. alot of small tedious things still left. 



I am also thinking of running electricity in there for lights and so i can heat the water container in the winter.


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## pigeon manic 12 (Jun 23, 2012)

hello newbiebulldoger are you going to race and how many are you thinking of racing


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

pigeon manic 12 said:


> hello newbiebulldoger are you going to race and how many are you thinking of racing



yes, im wanting to compete with the local clubs in my area. this will be for a young bird setup only in the future. I will keep upwards of 30-40 young birds in here and I will build another 4x8 breeders/old bird setup by next year. until then, I will have old birds and young in this setup. Im just setting this up now, Im too late in the season im guessing, and plus im not really trying to get my feet wet until next year. this year is just about playing with them.


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## pigeon manic 12 (Jun 23, 2012)

thats good im on the same boat as you only starting next year (if i save up enough money i might be able to get a junior memeber be a bit cheaper) how big is that loft its a nice loft wish i had one like it im only going to race ybs next year then what i have left use as old birds and breeders good luck mate


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

its 8x8 in all. the back side is 8ft tall and the front is 6ft tall. 2ft slope, im hoping the snow will slide off it easy. im new to the sport, just soaking up the info on this forum. thanks for the complement. Hope all goes good with your endeavors in the sport too.


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## pigeon manic 12 (Jun 23, 2012)

thats a good size mine is going to be 7x7 or so im new to racing but when i was 10 i got some tumblers


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

How is the sand on the floor working out ? Why do you have the perches sideways. looks like it is hard for them to stand on?


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> How is the sand on the floor working out ? Why do you have the perches sideways. looks like it is hard for them to stand on?


the sand has been working, I really like it. I come in on the mornings, scrape the box perches, and sweep up the droppings on the floor. the birds like resting in it too. I believe in the litter immunity theory, but im not going for the deep litter look. those perches were put together quickly, but the idea of it was that they would feel secure with 2 dividers up there. applying the same reasoning with the box perches, and a combination of not wanting to go to the hardware store. the other side is still plane jane, but is going to get 32 box perches over there too (12"x12"x 6" deep). when i get the time, Im going to take those stick perches down and replace them with 10"x10"x4"deep box perches. ive been busy, but slowly and surely its getting done.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I know what you mean with the deep litter. I have been in lots of lofts with deep litter and I could not breath in all of them, the smell would take your breath away, but the owners stood in there like it was their house. I guess you get use to it or something. I don't know how it could be good for the birds. I understand the immunity thing just not sure it would be for me.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

i have 300lbs of sand in there at the moment. I am going to try to replace it every 3 months at most trying my best to scrape, and sift through the daily waste. with a wheel barrel at the door, snow shovel, and a shop vac it can be done. As much as i do believe in that theory for the birds, it has to be opposite for us. I want my health to remain fairly well in the future. aside for the theory, the main reason im doing this is simply to protect the wood flooring. i got the idea from this forum. I went to look at the oil dry stuff (clay) which i was going to use, but i read the label, and it said it was cancerous if your exposed too long to it, so I went natural if you can call it that. I never heard of anyone getting cancer from sand lol


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Since you still want to try a litter system I would recommend using big pine bark chunks. Like the 2" size it lasts for months and keeps the loft smelling like fresh pine. No dust and 2 bags of the stuff would easily cover your loft floor. Just like the sand you will need to replace it at some point and the bark could easily be used around trees or shrubs in your yard after the birds add their fertilizer to it. The only cleaning you would need to do was perches and nest boxes. 

I like your loft too but think you might want to add a few more vents at the floor level to maximize your air flow. I didn't notice any vents up higher than the trap which could be a problem down the road. Any loft MUST have a dry floor, an good air exchange for the best environment for top health . These things are just about free too. As the sand dries out which is a good thing , it could also blow around if it's to fine particle wise and might cause issues.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 27, 2014)

ERIC K said:


> Just like the sand you will need to replace it at some point and the bark could easily be used around trees or shrubs in your yard after the birds add their fertilizer to it.


Eric K -- keep in mind this is not necessarily a good way to recycle!! Pigeon poop is high in nitrogen, adding nitrogen to trees and shrubs is harmful. By doing so, you are highly encouraging above soil growth - yip, appears to be a good thing! So whys this bad?? The ROOTS of trees and bushes can't keep up, it's growing abundantly higher above soil than below.

So the problem comes into play when it rains (or gets windy). It's too top heavy and falls over.

However, after speaking with several master gardeners, I'm told carefully applied (scattered) it is safe for lawns and gardens. Trees and shrubs, no. They need longer root systems.

Hope this helps - sure wouldn't want a tree falling where I didn't want it.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

ERIC K said:


> I like your loft too but think you might want to add a few more vents at the floor level to maximize your air flow. I didn't notice any vents up higher than the trap which could be a problem down the road. Any loft MUST have a dry floor, an good air exchange for the best environment for top health . These things are just about free too. As the sand dries out which is a good thing , it could also blow around if it's to fine particle wise and might cause issues.



thanks for the complement. i spent alot of time on it. it was the 1st time i built anything, and it came out better than i had ever expected. i do need to add more floor vents. here are some pics of what i have for extra ventilation. Also these are the pine trees im getting out the way before they get too big.







. 



Im planning on making a screen door out of metal horse panel. my yard isnt fenced in so I have too. I have everything caged in with those panels to prevent wild life from entering in and killing the birds. I have the loft facing S.East with the door facing directly south. I have it facing that way to prevent too much wind from getting in especially in the winter time. Pointing it directly S. was not an option. with that door open though, I get a great breeze of air flowing in there, but nothing too drafty and excessive .I'm planning to have regular screen door material on the outside of the screen door and the metal horse panel on the inside. this im hoping will keep out the snow if i choose to leave the door open in the winter and a bit of the water out when it rains in the summer, if im late to close it (probably will work better for the snow). I havent seen the peak of the summer months yet, so I just might remove those bottom front vents and cut one long floor vent in that whole bottom front piece something like 6ft long by 2ft wide and frame that in. im hoping the door will be one huge vent like the inside face of the aviary though. 

just to add, I havent noticed any sand flying around in there, or sand drifts.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

somewhere on there, i want to add on a little fly pen. nothing too big, maybe 3ft deep and 4-5 ft tall. Im thinking on the back. then they could get sun when the sun is west of the front aviary. SO MANY SMALL THINGS!!!!!


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## flight (Dec 29, 2011)

I also use sand on the floor and I like how everything stays nice and dry. I made a strainer to sift the sand and it looks like a bingo ball turner. Poop stays in and sand falls out it is covered by window screen. I use about 150lbs in an 8x16 loft.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

the outside has a screen on it to keep the mice out, and the inside is horse paneled 











made out of 1x4's and the bottom is 1x6. 


Im satisfied with the air flow now.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

Looking good!


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