# Is this a young pigeon?



## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Hello,
I found this guy on the side of the road with no sign of his parents and no nest in any of the tree's or bushes in the near by area. I decided to take him in because the neighborhood he was found in is chock full of cats.

I thought he was a baby pigeon, but after seeing pictures I'm not so sure. Can you guys help identify him for me? Maybe he's just a different species of pigeon?


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry, I dont know why the pictures didnt attach!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Looks like a baby pigeon to me. Very cute, looks like he's going to be red


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Lenadator,



Yes, this is a young Pigeon.


They can 'March' a long ways when they do not know what else to do, if seperated from their Nest and parents, so, who knows where the Nest was, could have been a long ways off from where you found her.

Most likely this little one does not yet know how to eat or drink on their own.


For now, mix a pinch of Salt, a pinch of Sugar, and a small pinch of Baking Soda, into a glass of room temperature Water.

Water must be 

Pour some into a low Tea Cup or Custard Dish...lightly moisten your finger tips in it, and, softly guide their Beak into it, keeping your finger tip pads on the sides of their Beak toward it's root area, and, she should drink.

She is likely somewhat dehydrated, so, do quite a few drinking sessions with here now till morning.


If you guide her Beak like this, and get her to drink, she will recognise your interest to feed and water her, and she will 'nuzzle'.

This will be important for feeding, which we can go over later tonight or tomorrow.


Post some good close up images of any poops, and let us know how many so far in how much time.


Phil
Lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I did give her some water when I first got her in the box. I kept dipping my fingers in and giving her the drops that were still on them. Is that mixture better for her to drink since she's so young?

Thank you for being so informative :> I was researching all day about young pigeons. I believe she has been "nuzzling" my hand. 

I think she's pooped about 4 times since I brought her to my house. Maybe more? I'll get a good picture of them tomorrow, but so far the ones I've seen have been a black blob surrounded by a white/yellow watery mixture. I'm not sure if that's good. I know it's not so great when my parakeets have that? Should it be more solid?


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I was worried that maybe she wasnt hydrated enough so I just went and quickly made that water mixture...And she drank so much!! I led her to the water 3 times and she drank for about a whole 10-15 seconds each! She dunked almost her whole head in the last time.

She also pooped right after that so I just snapped a photo. She's pooped 3 times since I had her in her nice box. Which is about 6 hours. And probably twice before that
















The second photo is the newer one.

After drinking she was much more alert and very happy. She's sleeping again now.

Is it ok to bathe her? Or is she too young? She just has some poop under her wings(I'm assuming from her siblings.)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

The poops are typical of an illness usually called 'Canker'.

This might be why she was on the ground, as their parents are usually very sensitive to any developing illness in their Babys, and will stop feeding a Baby they feel is coming down with something.

This is easily treated with Metronidazole, which can be had from Tropical Fish Stores in a form called 'Fishzole'...or, from any of various Pigeon Supply Houses on the internet.

Glad to hear the slectrolyte drinking went well..!


Moisten your fingers, softly massage her Beak from the front, and get her 'Nuzzling' (I asking to be fed or watered ) when wishing to guide her Beak for her to drink. Keep your finger tip pads on the rear sides of her Beak as she drinks.

Only have her drink with this method for now...no unserpervised Water access.


What are the Seeds in the image?


Anyway, probably it is alright for her to have food, but she will need the Medicine a.s.a.p.


If you want to feed her, I can explain an easy way to do it.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh I put them there to see if she knew how to eat them! And the green stuff is a mashed pea. (she didnt like it very much, just kinda sniffed it and then turned away.)

I was planning to go to the pet store tomorrow to get her baby bird food. Unless you have a better suggestion? And thank you for the info! I'll see if I can pick up that medicine while I'm there.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ledanator,



She is too young too have ever seen Seeds before.


She would be fine eating small whole Seeds, such as a Dove or Canary or Finch mix.


This would be much safer than trying to feed formula if you have not done it before.

She will gladly eat Seeds from your Hand, if you shape your Hand correctly for your fingers to stand in for her parent's Throat and Beak.


Like this -


Like what you see in the third image -


http://family.webshots.com/album/578355702ZzGHYj


Tilt your Hand so the Seeds roll into her opening and closing Beak.

With this method, one's Thumb tip is on the top rear area of her Beak.


You can also guide her Beak same as to Water, but guide it fairly deeply into a Tea Cup of small whole Seeds, and, keeping your finger tip pads on the sides of her Beak this time, slightly differently than in the first method, she will 'gobble' the Seeds just about the same as she used to from her parent's Throat when they were feeding her.


Both methods work very well for Pigeons of this age and development stage, and, the latter method very soon leads to them pecking and self feeding also.


She has not eaten in a few days, so, make her first meal a smallish one, say, about a Tablespoon worth.

Have her on a Towel on your Lap as you sit, so any spilled Seeds are easy to reclaim.


Pet Store might not have Metronidazole, and if not, see if any Tropical Fish Stores near you who may have the 'Fishzole' version, and then check back with us here for dosage advice.


Good luck!


Phil
lv


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yellow urates can be caused by anorexia, liver damage, kidney damage. 

It isn't one of the symptoms I would use to diagnose canker, but if canker has affected the bird's ability to to eat, or invaded the liver and kidney then perhaps it can cause yellow urates so you might as well give it a treatment for canker. 

If you are looking for canker in a baby that young, look for it as a visible growth in the mouth or throat or as a lump in the cloaca or the navel. One symptom that you often see at that age is lack o feathering under the beak and in the throat area, because the canker will affect the feather follicles. Look also for a "slow blink".

There is a risk in treating such a young pigeon prophylactically for canker beacuse at that age their parents pass on small quantities of the organism that helps them build up a natural immunity which will help them resist infection later in life.

Keep him separated from other birds and Keep your eye open for other symptoms . Let us know what you see.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Here are some more updated pictures of Ragweed(what we named her) and her poops. Tell me what you guys think is happening.









This is what I found this morning when I first looked at her. Big pile of poop.









Here's another from later on









Her chest









There's a pic from under her. This was difficult to get, she kept moving around.


Also that hand feeding method is working great! She loves the seeds!

Is it possible to bathe her? I asked before. It's ok if it's not, just she seems very dirty.

And if she does have canker, isnt that Trichomoniasis? Is it possible for me to catch that? I was my hands and use purell after every time I handle her. I'm just making sure I'm safe.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Lenanator,



You could bathe her if you liked...plain tepid or slightly coolish water...blot dry, and or direct outdoor sunshine dry...she probably will not like it though, getting wet/bathed, when it is not her choice.


Far as Hygene, just wash your hands before feeding or fussing with her, and, wash them after, just in a normal easy going Soap and Water kind of way.

No big deal.


We already have Trichomonads on our Mouths and upper GIs and so on anyway...and if anything, our own germs are more a danger to them, than their are to us.


Canker is a name for Trichomoniasis.


Granted, other things can cause yellow Urates also.

In most instances, treating for Trichomoniasis will manage whatever the condition is, in the absence of a verified clinical diagnosis.


A broad spectrum antibiotic would be good to use in conjunction with the Metronidazole.


Nice to see plenty of good poops!


And very nice to hear the feeding method is mutually agreeable for her and you!


Wonderful!



Did you get any Metronidazole ( and broad spectrum Antibiotics ) yet?


Please make haste on that, this illness can make for some pretty serious problems if left untreated, including having her digestive system become clogged and unable to pass any further foods...so, get those meds now if possible!



Phil
Lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Unfortunately all the tropical fish stores in my area were closed at 5pm today. And I worked until then. I will be going tomorrow but at least I know that she is eating well and is very alert. I looked at her mouth and it seems to be all clear and pink.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Most recent poop from two different angles.

Also, should I be getting a tablet? What form of the antibiotic would be correct to use?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Tablets for both meds would be an easy form to use.


Get the 'Fishzole' ( Metronidazole ) ...and also any traditional broad spectrum antibiotic, of which there are many, and I have no idea what ones one would find in a Pet supply Store, since they usually go by other names in that context.

But see what they have, and ask a store Manager to review for you the selection they carry.


Usually they have some versions of Tetracycline, under other names, and that would likely be fine.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

So how should I go about dosages? And how do I give her the medicine? I just got fish zole. Should I crush it up and mix it into her food? Or should I try to make her drink?

I've also begun to feed her using a syringe with Kaytee exact baby bird food. But instead of using the actual tip of the syringe I chopped the end off so that it's just a hollow tube. Then I fill it with about 20ml of the bird mix and place a piece of plastic with a hole cut into it over that with a rubber band. That way she can just put her beak in and eat all she wants. I know that baby pigeons stick their mouth into their parents mouth to get the food. She get's messy but I doubt that's avoidable.

So I could mash it up into her food if that's a good way?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Is the Fishzole in Tablet form or is it a powder?


If Tablets, what are the Tablets rated as?


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

It's tablets, and they're 250 mg. Is that the rating?

Here is a link to what I bought. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00061MQQO/ref=oss_product


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Welll...around 45 mG once-a-day, or, 22.5-ish once every 12 hours, would probably fit the bill just fine for your amsllish youngster.

If you can break a 250 mG Tablet into five equal volume parts, you can just pop a roughly 45 mG part into her Throat, opening her Beak to do so...pushing it back far with your little finger tip if need be, to ensure she swallows it.

Usually best for meds to be scheduled for between meals if possible.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh ok. I'll try to do that. About for how long should she take the meds? A week? Will there be a noticeable difference in her poop? She's really perky now so I cant imagine her being anymore energetic! haha.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, golly...

What are her poops/urates looking like presently?


Can you post some images?


Bring me up to date on her eating also - is she pecking and eating Seeds on her own? Crop passing foods nicely?


Phil
Lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I've been feeding her the bird formula since sunday night. Sometime this week I do plan to put seeds in flat dish for her. And I'm gonna try the "pecking" method? Where I "peck" at them with my index and thumb, picking them up and such. Eventually she will get the idea. I also read that I should feed her less of the formula as I try to make the move, so she goes looking for food instead of waiting for it.

Here are her poops from the past few hours. The yellow stuff is just her formula that fell to the ground, so dont worry about that. So far from feeding her she seems to be passing everything nicely. Her crop gets fairly small before her next feeding, and she always seems very satisfied after she is fed.



















And then a picture of ragweed after I finished feeding her.









She is in the box my friends made for her. Complete with patterned paper, some poetry about flying and being a bird. And a corduroy carpet(covered in news print as she poops a lot.) All glued on with a non-toxic natural glue of course.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Wow, very cute...


You know, I think she has some Mild Trichomona issues, where, going ahead with the Metronidazole would be a good thing to do.


She has a pretty Hardy system I'd say, and, no harm to help her out a little with this, so, figure a week with the Metronidazole, and that should clear things up, and her Feathering then should fill in under her chin, Urates should get nice and 'White', and so on.


White Paper Towels would be good to line her House floor with...


She's s cutie!


Do you know how to, and have a way to, feed the formula directly into her Crop?


I think she also has some mild Candida/Yeast troubles in her GI...


Is there anyone you could get some Medistatin from?




Phil
Lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I do have another syringe that is smaller but has a curved tip. I could use it on her but she doesnt seem to like having anything put in her mouth really... Last time I tried she fussed a lot and kept pulling away.

What signs of a yeast infection does she have?

Oh and do you know for sure if Ragweed is a girl? How can you tell?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

That would be no good...too dangerous, and liable to injure her Esophagus.

I expect she would be able to eat small whole Seeds just fine, if you can get her 'Nuzzling', and, make your Hand into a shape which will provide the tactile feeling similar to her Pigeon-Parent's Throat.


Like the third image here shows, if in a static way of course -


http://family.webshots.com/album/578355702ZzGHYj


The 'Netty' aspect to some of the Urates seen in the poop image, can be interpreted to represent a probably Candida/Yeast infection.


Probably her own system is dealing with and removing the two issues now that she is getting fed and getting calories and nutrition into her, but, in case it is not, or regardless, we should keep an Eye on these subtle poop/urate signs.


ACV-Water can help with both things ( but still do the Metronidazole for a Week)...are you familiar with it?


Phil
lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh I remember reading about that. I could definitely giver her some ACV water. I'll make that for her tomorrow and see if she'll drink it. 

Do you know if Ragweed is for sure a girl or a boy? I have no idea how to tell with pigeons.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

My friendly wager, is that she is a Hen.


Maybe try 3 Tablespoons of the raw, unfiltered, Apple Cider Vinegar, to a Gallon of Water, and see if she drinks it alright...if so, let that be her drinking Water for a Week.


It helps the Metronidazole work better, and, also changes the PH in her upper GI to discourage replications/advance of Candida/yeast Organisms


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Definitely will do.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Keep us posted.

Daily or every other day images of the poops/urates, and general reports on how she is doing!


Try the Hand Feed thing...might take a little finesse and a few tries, but, every Squeaker or Fledgling I get in, they take to it right off the Bat, and are just all wiggles and squeaks and flapping and so on with it.

I am used to it, of course, but, no reason why you couyld not ger her going on it with a little patience.


Slightly warm moist finger tips, softly massaging her Beak, from the front...guide it to some tepid Water, keeping your finger tips on her Beak sides as she drinks...is a way to get the gesture or message across.

Repeating then, should lead to her understanding it as an offer to water or feed...

Then, try the feed part.

I only offer Water when I will guide their Beak to it...ditto with Seeds or Hand Feed ( they can over eat if not supervised once learning how to peck on their own).

Lots of advantages to this...


Phil
Lv


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi! Sorry I havent posted in awhile. I was away for a bit and my roommate was feeding ragweed for me while I was gone.

She's fat and healthy. She's been having her medicine and her poops look much whiter now! I'll upload pictuers this weekend when I get them on the computer.

The only problem I seem to be having is switching from formula to seeds. I at first mixed some seeds into a her formula and she had no problems at all with that. Though now I've gone to just feeding her seeds. While she doesnt refuse them she doesnt like them much either.
She only eats very few of them and her gullet seems very small after she finishes. She also is still very hungry afterwards, she constantly nuzzles me, and I think maybe she's just thirsty. And while she does drink for a bit she wont eat anymore after that. 

Another thing is teaching her to peck. She is very good a pecking but she never eats the seeds. She just picks them up and shakes her head so they fling off to a far corner of a room. She's only been pecking for about 5 days now, but is that normally how long it takes? Maybe I'm just worrying to much.

But I do worry with her food and that she's not eating enough. She always is very hungry. I gave in this night and fed her formula, but it's still sad. I'm not sure what to do. Should I just be strong and know that she'll eventually learn to eat the seeds? Or should I keep feeding her formula till she decides to not have it anymore?


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh also some of her feathers are growing back under her neck! Mostly along the edges of her cheeks and her beak.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Ledanator said:


> Hi! Sorry I havent posted in awhile. I was away for a bit and my roommate was feeding ragweed for me while I was gone.
> 
> She's fat and healthy. She's been having her medicine and her poops look much whiter now! I'll upload pictuers this weekend when I get them on the computer.
> 
> ...



Well, keep trying to work out the method of her 'nuzzling' and then eating by inserting her Beak into your Hand, as I showed in the image?

Perfectly fine for you to continue to be feeding Formula while she is also eating Seeds, being fed Seeds, or working out her pecking technique.


In Nature, their parents feed them untill some weeks or more after the youngster is flying well.


The Hand method I had showed, is a very effecient means of feeding them whole dry Seeds, where it is still lik ePoppa or Momma feeding them, and, the young Pigeon will like it, and it is easy to stuff them silly in no time.

Well, don't over stuff them, of course! - but, small to medium size meals, a few times-a-day, is best.


Let me know if we need to run through this?

I think I had posted some info previously...but, if you have not mastered it, we can run through it some more till you do!


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I know that this has been a very long time since an update. I moved recently so I wasnt able to post anything as I did not have internet for a week or so!

Ragweed is doing great! She is super happy, and love walking around and exploring.

Here are some pics!



























She is very big now, she is growing so many new feathers(there's feather dust everywhere!) Especially around her neck and chin. She has stopped peeping and is now making a the weird honking noise. She sounds like an angry old man. 
Also she only eats seeds now, she actually refuses to eat her formula, which is great! She pecks a lot more but still doesnt have the hang of eating all the seeds she picks up.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Very pretty! I love the color - Good Job


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