# Should I hand feed a baby I have found?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have managed to encourage a very young pigeon into the house when it was looking for food. It was very young, it still looks like it has its baby beak shape for feeding from its parents mouths. It has left its nest very early for some reason and was too young to fight for food. By the time I caught it, it was all skin and bone.

Anyway, it has a place here now until it feels old enough and strong enough to leave. The pigeon is very young, it has feathers, but still has a lot of fluff. you can tell by the shape of its tiny head and its beak that it should still be in a nest somewhere.
The baby is feeding ok, it is looking for the very small seeds in the seed mix that are small enough for it to swallow. I would like to give it some hemp seed to build it up, but I think the hemp seeds are still too big.
What do people think would be best, should I leave the baby to find its own way and gradually start eating the same mixed seed diet with probiotic and vitamin water that the others eat? Or should I give it some hand rearing formula to help it along. The latter will involve me catching the little baby and this may stress it out a little, but I am not sure if he will be able to eat enough by himself to keep growing? What do you think?

All advice welcome, thank you very much,
Brian.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if it were me, I would take it in and offer it the seeds the others are eating..and also hand feed it, defrosted peas and corn, 40 or so pieces at a time only more when the crop empties, for a week or two... t offer the seed/grains the others are eating in a dish and get him interested by poking your finger in the dish like you are pecking it. look him over to see if there is any canker or other problems going on.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> if it were me, I would take it in and offer it the seeds the others are eating..and also hand feed it, defrosted peas and corn, 40 or so pieces at a time only more when the crop empties, for a week or two... t offer the seed/grains the others are eating in a dish and get him interested by poking your finger in the dish like you are pecking it. look him over to see if there is any canker or other problems going on.


I couldn't agree more.
They yound pigeons are interested in small seeds because it's easy to pick them up and roll them in the beak. If you serve him with big seeds and do what Spirit wings said ( poking with finger), he will notice that the big seeds might be for eating also. He will not succed from the begining, he will pick it and drop it and so on, until he figures out how to eat it. Once they learn they get really excited while eating..i love to watch that


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> I have managed to encourage a very young pigeon into the house when it was looking for food. It was very young, it still looks like it has its baby beak shape for feeding from its parents mouths. It has left its nest very early for some reason and was too young to fight for food. By the time I caught it, it was all skin and bone.
> 
> Anyway, it has a place here now until it feels old enough and strong enough to leave. The pigeon is very young, it has feathers, but still has a lot of fluff. you can tell by the shape of its tiny head and its beak that it should still be in a nest somewhere.
> The baby is feeding ok, it is looking for the very small seeds in the seed mix that are small enough for it to swallow. I would like to give it some hemp seed to build it up, but I think the hemp seeds are still too big.
> ...


I agree with SW, and, while I understand your situation from previous posts etc, I still cannot understand why you allow new birds/rescues to be free within the same space as your other birds.
You really must find a way to quarantine them for a period untill you are sure they have nothing they can pass on. This way also, you wouldnt have to catch to hand feed. 
Even A simple small cage in the same room would be better than nothing, containing the bird with its own food & water so that they dont actually mix.
Catching a bird doesnt just stress the one you are catching, but panicks the others also.
I can understand what youve said before about the space problem, but I also have limited space, have four birds at the moment (none of which now need quarantined), but if another rescue was to come along it would be housed in a separate cage and certainly not allowed any physical contact with the others untill I was sure it was healthy. 
Its all very well rescuing a bird and being able to help it, but you are also risking the the health of the others that you have already invested your time and limited resources on. Why risk it ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have to agree with Quazar. You don't know that the young one doesn't have anything that the others could catch. He should be quarantined. Then feed him seeds. He can swallow them, as some young birds I have reared have started with the larger seeds, as they preferred them. You never want to feed one that age with formula, as that would be going backward, unless of course, it were just very sick, and the formula would be easier on it. If you must hand feed then the defrosted peas would be better.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have accepted what you say is necessary regarding segregation, and I have been looking further away at bigger stores to find cheap cages that I can afford. I will set up an area on my side of the room where I can have 2 cages for recently captured birds. I do realise that it is necessary especially if I am going to do this long term and in a more professional way. I think there are few cities where the pigeons are stressed as much as London! Maybe polluted cities like Hong Kong would be harder on the pigeons but I feel I could easily do this for the rest of my life and never be short of patients.

So, as I say, I am glad to implement the segregation by investing in some cheap cages made of wood. Unfortunately, I think I am going to lose this battle with the council, so I am reluctant to buy more equipment(except medicine) until the matter is resolved. My brother will also put in extra perching area's for me as he is good at DIY, but again not until the matter is resolved one way or the other.
My solicitor thinks I will be lucky if they make provision in the new tenancy agreement to allow me to keep some pigeons as pets, but she says she thinks it is unlikely that they will allow me to continue treating the pigeons. This would be a terrible situation. Although I am very much attached to the pigeons I have had for a while, I would not be able to look out of my window in the middle of the freezing winter weather and see pigeons begging for food, or worse still injured. I would be unable to do nothing about it, I would have to help. Unless circumstances were such that I could keep this activity hidden, I would end up in the long run losing my flat. I would then be sitting on the streets with the pigeons lol........

The bottom line is, if the world has changed so much that showing animals compassion is now going to be outlawed, I would be unable to stay in the city. I have already joined a site called Homeswap, for council tenants to swap properties with each other. I have had a lot of offers already for a swap to Dorset, where I have friends. I do not want to leave my parents, and I do not want to abandon the pigeons, but it seems I will have little choice if things go in the direction I suspect they will.

As for little Niggle(as I have called him) he has taken to the hemp seed after watching the others for a time. I think it is not worth the stress of catching him to feed him every day, so unless I see him deteriorating or loosing weight, I am happy to leave niggle to sort himself out. Thanks for the info though, it was appreciated.
By the way I was trying to indicate(very badly lol) that I have 'Kaytee exact handfeeding' formula that I was going to feed Niggle to help him build up his weight, but if he continues to eat the hemp seed at the rate he is I don't think he will need any help lol.

Thank you all very much for your advice,
Brian.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Brian, for sick birds you do not need any elaborate cage or wooden construction, but Even a simple cage from most pet shops will set you back around £30 - £35 
As i mentioned before, Most supermarkets have "wire cooling trays" for baking at around £1.50 - £2 each.
This simple setup is just placed on an old kitchen cupboard door for a base, and can be lifted off for intensive cleaning /scraping between uses. Paper towels or newspaper covering door is ideal for simple "occupied" cleaning.
6 trays required, = £9
1 pack cheap cable-ties £1 from "poundland"









You can also use something like this as a "hospital box" (around £2.50 - £3.50 from tesco/asda)
Not all come with lids, but some places do have them. 
Plastic, easilly washed & collapsible


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great ideas! And pretty easy to make.


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## Twigeons (Aug 20, 2011)

A good trick for getting young ones to learn to feed themselves is to place a mirror on the floor of their cage, then put the seeds on it. They will be checking out their reflection and accidently figure out that seeds are food. And yes, he should be quarantined, but eventually he can be released or integrated with your birds. I am doing the same thing right now with a baby that was bitten by a horse and he also seems to have salmonella with swelling under his wing. I am giving him SMT for it as it is less harsh than baytril, although baytril is my next option if this doesn't work. Good luck !


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have found an online site where I can buy those cooling racks Quazar, and I will be able to get them soon.
I am also being told by my solicitor that the council is going to write to me soon, so I will soon know one way or the other if I can continue.......

Lets hope for the best,
Brian.


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Wow that's a great idea for a quick way to contain a bird.


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## scmona (Sep 6, 2012)

They sell this powdery substance that you mix with warm water and feed with a syringe if he is really young. We did this with a baby crow who fell from his nest. He still had fuzz. We have a neighbiorhood of feral cats and there is no way he would have lasted. His mother and father cawed at him everytime we brought him out in our backyard. Soon he was walking on his own, following us around the yard. Then came the time he flew off with his parents. Oh we miss him so much. But he and his family live in our neighborhood. So it was a happy ending.


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## scmona (Sep 6, 2012)

http://youtu.be/lariVa4uarY


This was Lester.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Your video brought back memories of the baby crow that I had for a while. I called her Beauty, as I was fairly sure she was a female. I remember that way they flap their wings and caw at you when they are hungry. Your one looks slightly younger than the one I found, or it might be a different species, but I made up a mix with cat kibble and egg(sometime scrambled egg) and some other things and fed her with the tip of the handle of a spoon. They are such brilliant company(except they insist on coming over and waking you as soon as the sun rises lol).

Your video brought back great memories. Unfortunately crows are sometimes too clever for their own good, or humans are too stupid it could be argued lol. I used to leave the window ajar so the pigeons could sit at the windows and breathe the outside air. Unfortunately I did not foresee that the crow might work out how to push the window further open. One day when she stole my tobacco pouch playfully as she used to, she flew up to the window and pushed it open and flew out. By the time got outside I found the tobacco pouch but could not see the crow. I went looking for her for several days but never found her. I think she was originally abandoned because of her badly formed feet, it seems she never got enough calcium whist growing up. I had her long enough for her to grow to full size and her feet improved, I just hope they improved enough for her to survive. I still feel guilty about it now, I suppose we can only learn by making mistakes. If I ever find another abandoned crow I would not hesitate look after it as well as I could. I found a good group for advice of people who rescue crows.

Your video brought back some lovely memories....
Brian.


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## scmona (Sep 6, 2012)

@BHenderson, we still miss him terribly. This video was taken this June. Last night when i was playing this video my husband heard it from the other room and said "Lester is back, Lester is back" and shot up from his chair. I said "No, I'm just watching an old video of him", he said "Aw, that makes me sad". Yeah we both loved him. They are very smart and would do it all over again.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm with you all the way. I just wish pigeons and crows got on better. In the future if things go the way I want I hope to be able to keep any crow I find separate from the pigeons otherwise there can be trouble. But you are right they are very adorable and because they are so intelligent you quickly build up ways of communicating with each other, which makes it all the harder when they go. :-(


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

On another matter, I am a little worried that niggle is being bullied by the others as he is the youngest and looks like he might have been the runt of the two babies. When he was flapping his wings earlier I could still see a line where his keel bone is. I am worried he might not be getting enough to eat because the others are bullying him, so I am going to defrost some sweetcorn and peas and give him some just to be on the safe side.


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## scmona (Sep 6, 2012)

Aw poor Niggle. I hope he puts on weight.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> On another matter, I am a little worried that niggle is being bullied by the others as he is the youngest and looks like he might have been the runt of the two babies. When he was flapping his wings earlier I could still see a line where his keel bone is. I am worried he might not be getting enough to eat because the others are bullying him, so I am going to defrost some sweetcorn and peas and give him some just to be on the safe side.


another reason that quarantine is good, they can still watch the others & learn the pecking order under relative safety. They may still get pushed about a bit when first mixing, but not as much, and know what birds to avoid and when to force their way in for food and when not.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

The feeding went well, and I fed Niggle about 25 bits of pea or sweetcorn. He soon got the hang of it and was swallowing it quite fast after a bit. I did not want to push it to 40 pieces as suggested as she looks too small to take that much. I have checked around to see if she was sick after, but I think she has held it down. She does squeek a lot even when she is not being bitten by the others so I'm not sure whats going on. The others are getting the message that I am protecting this little runt of the litter.

I do fall behind sometimes in my efforts to buy good medicines, and I have allowed myself to to run out of grit. It is one of those things your order so infrequently that it is easy to overlook it. I have purchased what I hope is a higher quality of different grits to mix together, as I think this is better than I had before.
I got the following to mix together:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130713565291
and
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390449255187
and
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390474356292

I may also go down to a local pet shop where I have seen some black powder grit for pigeons. I have noticed that Blondie follows me around when I put out the patricks grit and is not happy until I sprinkle the black powder that comes with patricks, so I hope mixing these 4 ingredients will give a good grit mix for them all.
It may account for the sluggish eating habits of all the birds recently as they have had no grit. I will not allow myself to run out again.

What do people think of mixing all these grits up together in the suggested proportions, including the black pigeon mineral powder ? Do you think I need to add anything to it?

Thanks for the advice,
Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I am a little worried about niggle. I brought him down to feed him some peas and sweetcorn today, and I was checking him over and noticed that the area where his keel bone is remains bald. The baldness goes all the way down the keel bone. Also he remains thin despite my attempts to feed him extra peas and sweetcorn. He does not seem ill in any other respect but he has a very high pitched squeal that he uses often even before he is being picked on.
I have decided to make up a little of the baby food mix and give him some of that as well as the peas and sweetcorn. I can only get him to accept about 20 peas and sweetcorn and I would like to give him some extra nutrition that he would get from the baby food. I know it is a bit of a backward step, but I am worried why he has been with me more than a week and still does not seem to be improving. I want to boost his intake. I do see him picking at the seeds but he does not eat much by himself and I think it is because the others bully him.

If there is a good reason why I should not give the extra baby food to help boost his nutrition, please let me know. Otherwise I will start in the morning.

Thank you,
Brian.


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