# HELP.. Pidgie with paramyxovirus!



## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I recently rescued a pigeon that was being attacked by others. I called him bonk because he had a tendency to fly into the windows of the cinema. I live in Texas.

I began researching his symptoms and they seem to match the paramyxovirus, but I'm extremely worried. I've read he can be pulled through, but my mom has exotics at her house, and dad has been visiting her, but currently living in the house here with me. He is afraid that it might be an all species strain of Newcastle's and that he might have taken it to mom's birds. She has a severe macaw, eclectus, umbrella cockatoo, some cockatiels, some parakeets, and some canaries..

I'd like to know what you think. I've been hand feeding and watering bonk off and on. He tries to eat on his own..

Here are the signs I've noticed. Stars match the symptoms of paramyxovirus..

Head dives off to left when he tries to peck up food *
slight shivering (could be because it's not hot in the house)*
One leg seems "hurt", it collapsed when he landed (paralysis?)
Frequently holds head slightly tilted
not active, sits still most of the time*
somewhat fluffed feathers*
doesn't appear to see well out of his left eye.. (which would explain his right eye constantly facing the food..

He doesn't have a lot of head spasms unless he's struggling with me as I'm trying to water him or feed him, and he has Some spasms when trying to eat, but mainly his movements are just a swoop to the left and jerking back to examine the food. He could fly quite well, but couldn't land because of his leg. I don't feel anything broken and he did walk on it without a limp, but one leg always collapses
he has pretty good balance, considering what appears to be nerve or brain damage. He sits on my shoulder sometimes.
He does appear to see sometimes from his right eye.. sometimes you move and he jerks and sometimes you move and he doesn't seem to see anything. Dad suspects permanent blindness in the left eye and I think that the brain damage or nervous damage causes his vision to go wonky. I'm not sure.

I'd like some opinions on what to do. 

1 I'm worried about infecting mom's parrots.. is it likely that dad's walking around where the pigeon does will carry the disease? I clean up everything he poops on or in, he doesn't do more than in his cage or on the floor next to where he is sitting. I keep up with it, to make sure it doesn't make a mess..
2 I'm worried about the other pigeons. I rescued him from the cinema and the others all seem fine. They were beating up on him though, pecking him viciously in the neck and not allowing him to eat..
3 Is he likely to pull through? I've been feeding him quite bit, along with watering him and offering him different nuts and seeds and soft foods. He has been drinking the extremely diluted gatorade mix from the dropper, but he can't seem to see the water bowl to drink for himself..

any tips or opinions are desperately wanted. If you live in Texas and can afford to take him in, contact me. I don't know if I can keep him much longer, what with mom's birds at risk and me not having a lot of time or money to devote to him.  I feed him every day when I get home from work, and he seems to be doing well, but I'd much rather someone who knows what they're doing take him in..


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Caliandra and welcome to Pigeon-Talk! Thank you for taking in this needy pigeon. The symptoms do sound like PMV but could also be due to trauma or paratyphoid.

If it is PMV, it is very unlikely that anything could be transmitted to your Mom's parrots. The PMV strains are fairly species specific, and as long as you are being super careful about your hygiene, I doubt there will be a problem.

Terry


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks for the welcome and the advice! There were so many sites that gave different views.. I couldn't really figure it out.

I would like to know if what I'm doing is right. I didn't know about warming the pij first, but I cuddled him alot before I fed him, so I think my body heat warmed him..

I have been feeding a mixture of black sunflower seeds and baby chicken feed (I have it because I raise mealworms for my and my mom's bearded dragons). I've also been giving him pieces of nuts, (cashew, peanut), and using soaked cat food too. I've been watering him with an extremely diluted version of Gatorade, because I don't have electrolytes handy, and that's what I've seen used as an emergency electrolyte. 
I offered him some bread as a little treat to see if he would try to eat but since it's now nearly 10 PM here he's probably going to ignore it. I'm finding myself really attached to him.. I was when I first saw him, the only dull brown and black pidgie at the cinema I sat down near, but he's just really something special.

I feed the pidgies at the cinema during my breaks sometimes. My coworkers think it's a weird habit for an 18 year old chick, but hey.. I enjoy it. Different ones show up. There's a piebald pigeon there who's just gorgeous, and one jet black pij..
there's also a really pale, mostly white one that hasn't come to feed with my flock yet.. I hope it does, I only get glimpses of it..

anyway.

Any tips and ideas on how to care for this pij are welcome. My mom doesn't know and she told dad she didn't want me bringing one home. Of course, he told me AFTER I brought one home..
lol

Once again, if there are any experienced pigeon keepers in Texas, just north of Houston, who would like to take Bonk the pigeon in, that would be great. I love him to death but I don't know what Mom will do/say if she comes in the house while I'm at work and finds him..

thanks!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Caliandra,



Just a couple mentions, I am short on time just now.


Seeds, any good Finch or Parakeet Seed, and if you can, also, some regular Pigeon Mix...


Nuts are problematic, and unless Raw and fresh and made to be in quite small pieces, are a definite "no"...


Once you have some Seeds for him, if he is doing the 'swoopy' peck motion, try this - 


Drape a towell flat over your lap...have him on your lap in the low area where the towell is slightly depressed between your thighs...have a small Seed Bowl tilted toward him which is resting somewhat on one thigh...so it is at his chest level. Seed Bowl needs to be over an inch deep but not much more, and the smaller the diameter the better. Those little Custard Cups are good, or cut off the bottom inch and a half of a to-go cup.


And, steadying him with your left hand on his shoulders gently, and your palm on his back, so he will not be skooting backwards, have your right hand make a sort of loose finger 'cage' around his Head, even grasping the tops of the sides of the small Seed Bowl with your finger tips to keep his Head down so he can peck without lifting his Head much.

If he is 'swooping' to the side with his pecks, then gently use your fingertips to directly steady his Beak so it is pointing down, and somewhat out so it is not against his neck, even guiding it that way into the Seeds.


Small Seeds such as Finch or Parakeet Seed, he can 'gobble' this way, and larger ones, he can likely peck with yout steadying his Beak directly.


This is a gentle co-ordination of course, but they will usualy understand it fairly quickly and appreciate it and go with it.


Once he and you get the hang of this ( and that can happen right off the Bat, too) he may well be able to peck 'Like a Jack Hammer' without suffering all those extra head and neck movements, and, in fact, can get a good sized meal under his belt in no time, so if anything, be careful he does not over eat, especially if he is still young and might tend to. Two Tablespoons worth of Seeds sholuld be fine for any given meal time, and two or three of these meal times a day would be plenty.

And offer Water often, and make it tepid...do not leave water for him, but you offer it off and on through out the day and evenings...and when you do, simply gently grasp his Beak between finger tips and guide it into the Water for him to drink...him standing on front of the small Water Bowl.

...if he wants to drink, of course he will, and if not he will wish to pull back out. Just guide his beak in to 3/4rs of it's length is all...not deeper and see to it he does raise his head well after drinking to avoid any choking possibilitys, just lift his Beak 'UP' high, once he is done drinking, pulling his Neck out as you do so...and holding it there for a moment to make sure the Water is in fact all done going down, then release.


This might be a injury form hitting a Window, and not PMV...


I have had Window Birds who had various Nerve injury compromises, and these can take months to clear up.

If he is not 'Star Gazing' or having similar episodes...and if his poops are alright ( once he is eating Seeds) then that would tend to loan more probability to injury from hitting the Window.


Good luck..!


Get some Seeds...!

No more Nuts...



Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Caliandra,

This is my web page on PMV, it has information on treatment and handling of pigeons with PMV .http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/pmv.htm

I have rescued several pigeons with PMV over the years and have had to have them in the house at the same time as I had pigeons that were clear of the disease indoors. There has never been a transmission of PMV from a sick bird to a healthy one. 

But I agree with Terry, there are some aspects of the symptoms that you describe that makes concussion or paratyphoid a strong possinility.

I advise people against treating pigeons with PMV with antibiotics because that can aggravate the course of the disease, but if I were you I would treat him with Baytril.

If you had Exotic Newcastle Disease in the area it would have shown itself in domestic poultry, they are vulnerable to it. Pigeons can catch it, but it is rare for them to have it . As far as I remember when a sma;;; number were found to have caught the disease it was as a result of mingling with infected chickens.


Cynthia


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Okay.
I am beginning to think that this is a concussion then. My friends at the theatre said he flew into the window quite often, and I've witnessed a few of his hits. He always got back up and flew off or walked over to food.
I think another aspect would be lack of food. They throw popcorn kernels out and the oldest pigeons get there first and gobble it up really fast. I don't think he had quite got the hang of pigeon feeding frenzies..

That and the biggest male in the flock was beating the crap out of him when I arrived to throw them seed. It took me a while to catch Bonk, despite his disability. he flew fine but landed bad. He actually didn't have the flight affecting symptoms described in PMV.. 
He doesn't turn his head all the way upside down or fling it about without reason. In fact, he's never turned his head upside down since I first saw him. He does sit with his head tilted very slightly to one side, but he usually straightens when I talk to him, and tries to look at me. 

I guess I will have to look up Baytril and see about buying it. I'm awfully low on money though.. I'm currently working at Goodwill... and they don't pay very well..


Thanks bunches!
Cali


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If you are close enough, check with Roger's Wildlife and see if they can help .. http://www.rogerswildlife.org/

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cali,



I tried a fast revuew of your thread here...

"Baytril" for...?


If there are no signs of predation or Bites/punctures, he probably does not have any need of a systemic antibiotic.

If he was flying as you mention, he would not likely have an illness for which Baytril owuld be used.


But, he probably does need...time, gentleness, safety, real food, food which is good for Pigeons...and to be allowed to catch up to himself.


Get him real Bird Seed, and if you can, actual Pigeon Mix ( any Feed store or Farm store should have it...)

If he had hit those Windows more than once, then...well, best if be kept away form that place in the future I think...


Good luck..!

Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Calandria,

Keep an eye on the flock, if this is PMV then other cases might appear. 

There are also two symptoms that are seen in PMV and not in concussion: one is the thin, hard wormlike poop in a lot of clear water, the other is seed tossing, when the pigeon manages to pick up a seed he seems to stagger and toss it over his head. The problem is that there is no guarantee that a pigeon suffering from PMV would show these symptoms.

Keep up the isolation from other birds and the hygiene precautions and give him vitamins and probiotics. That will help him whatever it is.

I have had a little squeaker in a very similar state. It was three weeks into isolation that he turned his head completely upside down. I still don't know whether his problem was PMV or not, but I had to keep him isolated just in case it was.


I


> tried a fast revuew of your thread here...
> 
> "Baytril" for...?
> 
> ...


Phil, pigeons with paratyphoid can fly and the possibility of the symptoms being paratyphoid was mentioned in both Terry's reply and mine. *Baytril is the remedy for paratyphoid. * Please try to read what has been said before giving advice, it will save a lot of confusion.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> Phil, pigeons with paratyphoid can fly and the possibility of the symptoms being paratyphoid was mentioned in both Terry's reply and mine. *Baytril is the remedy for paratyphoid. * Please try to read what has been said before giving advice, it will save a lot of confusion.
> 
> Cynthia




Oh, okay



Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> Hi Calandria,
> *
> Keep an eye on the flock, if this is PMV then other cases might appear.
> *
> ...


Okay. Well so far none of them are showing signs. I suspect that it may just be a concussion..

as for his poop
Yesterday they were watery but the dark part was slightly smushy with a little bit of white. this morning there weren't any fresh ones. I cleaned up a few yesterday that were mushy and in water..

the seed tossing he only does every once in a while, Usually he just does that head swoop to the left. so far it's only been to the left, too.. which makes my dad suspect that he is blind in his left eye and can't see the food well. He doesn't respond to waving around his left eye unless a shadow hits it, and even then he might not. With his right it comes and goes. I think it's from all of the head damage from flying into the windows, but I'm not positive. 

I know a rehabilitator that can probably take him in. I was pondering whether or not to call her. Ali is extremely nice, and does a good job, but I'm not sure if she'll have room. I guess I'll have to call and ask when I get home..


Thanks for the advice!
Cali


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If him to a rehabilitator first check to ensure they don't euthanase if the pigeon is unreleasable or if they suspect PMV. 

Cynthia


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

He's getting worse. I suspect PMV. His head spasms are even worse than they were before. He's also tending to fling his head back after grabbing food now. I placed food in front of him after I got home and he tried to eat, but he keeps turning in circles and his head wanders left and right.. he doesn't freak at loud noises but his movements are more random and spastic. It seems like the case is getting worse 

I want to call Ali and ask her but I'd hate for her to say it's better to put him down. I'm kinda worried about that. 
As for the flock, they all bombarded me today. I forgot the food but I sat and watched them and they didn't show any signs of PMV. I can't be sure that he isn't from another flock or that the others his age haven't passed on though. 

he's circling again. I think I'd better help him out..

Any more advice? I really don't know if I can pull him through. I got a ticket for a minor accident, but I'm not sure if I even did it, and I barely make enough to cover food and bills. I'm getting more worried by the minute.


Cali


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh.. and one other question..
as of right now I have a birdseed mix consisting of black sunflower seeds, baby chick feed, and a wild bird food. Is this enough? I'm giving water and the seed..

by the way, he caught on to the feeding trick with the hands and towel instantly. He's really friggin' smart. I hope I, or someone else, can take this bird and save his life. He's a sweety. :S

Edit:another question lol
I don't have any birdie type vitamins or anything, and right now money is scarce. I can't really get any of the probiotics or vitamins that he might need. I'm really worried about that too.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> Oh.. and one other question..
> as of right now I have a birdseed mix consisting of black sunflower seeds, baby chick feed, and a wild bird food. Is this enough? I'm giving water and the seed..
> 
> by the way, he caught on to the feeding trick with the hands and towel instantly. He's really friggin' smart. I hope I, or someone else, can take this bird and save his life. He's a sweety. :S
> ...




Hi Caliandra,


Good then...! You are finding success with having a cupped hand-finger 'Cage' over his Head, while steadying him with your other hand, so he can Peck his Seeds without all that extra Head and Neck motion...glad to hear...


Having him drink with supervision, would be the same method. Tepid Water might be nicer for him than cold or room temperature. But make Tepid Water from "Cold" Tap water, and not the 'hot'...



Unless the Sunflower Seeds are the VERY small kind, the so called 'Black Oil Seeds', I would eliminate them from his Seeds Bowl mix.


Wild Bird Seed mix is alright, just toss the Sunflower Seeds...not great, but alright...maybe get some Finch or Parakeet Seed mix at Petsmart or something, which will cost about $5.00 for a bag, and add that also.

If your household has any really Fresh, Oilive Oil, one which has not been opened for more than a few days, you can add a light glistening of it to his Seeds, stirring them to it is evenly distributed, and this is good for him too.

If it is old, or been in the cupboard a while, do not use it...or any other Oils which are not absolutely fresh and wholesome.


Otherwise, just keep doing what you are doing...try and keep him full with chow times...he may recover fully, partially, or slowly for either, and it will take time, no doubt...



Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

That's it! The black oil sunflower seeds. The pidgies love that mixed in with chick feed.
I don't know how soon I'll be able to get the really good bird food, seeing as I have work and what looks to be a ticket to pay off *cries*

I do have olive oil that I just opened about a week ago..

Bought it recently and haven't used it much. heh..

I'm giving him as much water as he will drink. Which isn't as much as he eats, that's for sure..

Thank you all for your tips.
Any other tips are gratefully welcomed. I want to help Bonk as much as I can before I rehome him or send him to a more experienced caretaker.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds like you are doing well...


Just keep him eating and make sure he is getting enough Water.

Make the Water 'tepid' for him, and may as well add a pinch of Salt and Sugar to each Glassful so he is getting electrolytes.


If anyone there has 'Salt Substitute' ( people with high blood pressure us it ) which is Potasium Chloride, use that instead of the regular Salt.

The more he eats and drinks, the better...


Make sure he is always "warm"...whether this is PPMV, Paratyphoid, Brain injury, or combinations of any of those or who knows what else...sometimes they can mysteriously loose their ability to make themselves warm, so look out for that...he must be warm or kept warm at all times.

If he does seem to have become cool or chilled, get him warm again by having him against your stomach in your shirt, with your hands over him on the shirt's outside or even a towell over the shirt there and your hands over that...or with a heating pad with a towell on it, or ask us here what to do detail wise if you are not sure.

Refrigerate your Olive Oil, and warm the Bottle before each use under ythe hot water tap to get just enough liquified for what you need. Otherwise it will go rancid in a week or less and be bad for him.


Try and get him to eat fresh Greens, such as Kale, Endive, Cilantro, Mustard Greens...cut some up into tiny pieces and make a pile for him to guidedly peck, and or get these to stick to his Seeds, but the more of these he can eat, the better.

Goji Berrys also, but these are like $12.00 for a small pouch-bag at health food stores, but would be very good for him...


Good luck..!

Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Wow good info. Thanks!! I'll try to get some good greens after work!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Whatever the bird has, nutrition is also of upmost importance, for healing. The probiotics will help the uptake of nutrition into blood stream and help maintain good gut flora for better results.

If you suspect head trauma, arnica montana is a wonderful remedy that works well in birds with head trauma. If you think the bird suffers from parasites I recommend you give him a garlic cap each day, it will also booster immune response, clean and plurify the blood, as well as chase away any pesky internal critters. You can put a drop of Neem oil on the garlic cap for an even better immune response.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Sadly I got sick during work and my main priority was going home today. I will probably get greens tomorrow.
I have to set aside about 200 dollars for the case that I'm dealing with. I apparently scraped an SUV with my red truck when backing out and moving to another space, but I didn't see or feel anything.. So I got a ticket and the lady got a worse one for not having insurance..

but it's still too much money going down the drain 

He's actually eating right now, by himself, out of a towel on my lap. He started when I first picked him up but realized it was just me and calmed right down..

I will be probably looking up how much the probiotics and such will cost but I'm not sure if I can afford them all..
argh.
Thank you for all of your suggestions!
Cali


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Okay, we're going to be out and about..

I need to know what the probiotic is that you folks use with your pidgies. My buddy Jean has some and it was acidophilus. 
What would you recommend?? I plan on finding the garlic caps and getting my lil' buddy some good greens today, if we can.


Thanks so much for your help!
Cali


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

We were out and about today. I bought the garlic tabs. I do have a small question though..
If I fed him garlic dusted food yesterday, would it affect his poops today? They vary! One was super sticky, another wet, another perfectly healthy looking.. so I'm not sure what's what. 
Also..
I fed him some little bits of apple, cantaloupe, and carrot yesterday, since I didn't have any vitamins for him. He really liked it, though he wasn't sure at first.

He wants to say something to you guys, too. He was pecking my keys a few moments ago.. lol.. now he's eating the pidge food I got him. 

With the garlic tablets, should I give him one a day or one half or what? I don't want to overdo anything..
Will look into the probiotics and other items.. 
Thanks!
Cali


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cali,



Best not include anything from the Melon family...this might be what is effecting his poop...Melons require digestive Acids which he almost certainly does not posess.

Little bits of Apple and thin Carrot should be alright...but small semi-dry or dry Berrys would be good to elect also...but nothing containing 'Sulfites'.




Plain Yoghurt is inexpensive, and is well recommended by many fine practioners for being a source of some of the desireable pro-biotics.

Although how you would have him eat it at this stage, I am not sure.


How are you feeding him? Is he exclusively pecking with you steadying him in a finger-cage for his Head?


Reallly, if you just feed him good quality wholesome Seeds, and some occasional fresh Greens...and Goji Berrys say...he would be very very well nourished.

If you wanted and could afford it, see about some powdered Purple Dulce, and some powdered Brewer's Yeast, which are to be had cheap at any Health Food Store which has a bulk section for things by the ounce. These or other powders can be adhered to the Seeds with a very light glistening of Olive Oil on the Seeds first, add powders, stirr...


Phil
l v


Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

He eats some by himself but still finds trouble when he grabs the feed.. he flings it. I have been guiding him and if it's something he needs, like carrot, I open his beak and slip it into his mouth. He usually doesn't mind but sometimes he fights.

He has been drinking fairly well. He gets over zealous and dunks his whole head in the small cup I use to water him outside of his cage. Inside it I have a semi-shallow, long, l-shaped dish that he can't even get both feet into.

I have some strawberry yogurt but I guess I'll have to buy some plain when I get off work..


Thanks Pdpbison.. 
I'll look into the powders but I don't think I'll be able to afford them.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I got the yogurt. I assume that a small bit of yogurt, such as maybe half a teaspoon, is a good amount, but I'd like to check before giving it to him. thanks.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Give about a 1/4 teaspoon, it should be a good quality from the health food store, plain, no sugar, but organic. It should have cultures that start with the word bifido- bacterium, and enterococcus, and lactobacillus, the more the better. A whole arsonal of these guys will allow for quick multiplication of the good gut bacteria and get the intestinal flora back to optimum health.

You can purchase probiotic powder or caps from the refrigerator section at any health food store, it is quite concentrated and easy to mix.

Garlic soft gels are best to give down the throat-one a day, I usually slick it down with a drop of olive oil or Neem oil, it helps get it down easy.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cali,


Gently guide his Beak and steady his Head so he can peck and eat more effeciently...

Be very careful letting him drink, and similarly, steady his Beak and keep it vertical and steady his Head, and don't let him immerse his Head in the Water, he could aspirate and drown or get a pnuemonia...remember, his co-ordinations are 'off'...so...steady him with a gentle finger-cage around his Head, with your palm where the top of his Head is to be at it's highest.

Grip his Beak and guide it vertically into the drinking Water, and keep the Water Bowl shallow enough so he can not go too deep...and no Water unless you are doing this.


The 'powders' are the price of a 'pepsi'...


Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Cali,
> 
> 
> Gently guide his Beak and steady his Head so he can peck and eat more effeciently...
> ...


well as of right now he is doing well.
I don't buy soft drinks or sodas often... mostly because they cost a bit more than I'd like to pay..

I'll look around and see if there's a health store around here..
thanks for the info!! All of you are helping me out alot!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Cali

A good probiotic that we use often is Benebac and available at most pet stores. We also use plain yogurt.

Pigeons don't really need things like apples or carrots but good seed and greens, like kale. Apple seed are toxic also, so be careful with those.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Ah, thanks Lady Tarheel! I bought him some Dannon plain yogurt yesterday and gave him some yesterday and today. He seems to think it tastes blah, but he swallows it nonetheless. I went ahead and bought another seed mix because the first one I bought had mostly crushed corn, and he doesn't like it much. The new seed mix he loves.. and I'm glad because it costs me 7 bucks for five pounds of it. :S 

I have Nutra Choice calcium, magnesium, and zinc tablets for humans. I was curious if I could give him a small amount of that, say, crush it into dust and sprinkle a tiny bit of it on his food or in his yogurt. 

Money has been a big issue, sadly. I can't really afford to go out and buy a bunch of stuff just for the bird (though if I would I could), seeing as I have other animals too (rats, dogs, cats) who I have to worm and put anti-flea on. In fact, the plan is to do that today. I have to worm the cats and put the flea drops on the two dogs, along with bathing the 6 rats I currently own.. 

lol

Any tips on vitamins are welcome. I really want to get him to peak health and pull him through this disease or trauma, whichever it may be..

thanks for all the help!!
Cali


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cali,


Small finely minced so he can peck them, frech Greens ( Kale, Endive, Cilantro, Collard, Mustard Greens) will do him much more good than seperate Vitamines.


The Seeds, ( is it a mix you got? Or? ) have all the Calcium and other elements he might need, and the Chlorphyll occuring in fresh Greens aids in their assimilation/absorption as needed.



How are the poops looking? Color wise, onsistancy, volume?



Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

lots of fairly squishy poops.. A few of them are wetter than others.. but other than that... the color stays mostly dark dark brown with a little white.. with the watery ones it's just the same color, with white, and a small puddle. 
The puddles seem to be shrinking but he is drinking..

His balance is tons better. I took him outside with a loosely tied leg rope and he sat on my hand much easier than before..


He's been pigging out.. he loves the new mixture. it's Wild Delight Nut n' Berry .. description "A super premium blend of hulled seeds, sunflowers, nutmeats, raisins, and fruits."

It's got pistachios in it too.. he adores those. I have to break them up for him..
but the nuts are all raw and Bonk loves them!


I gave him some yogurt this morning. All of the extra treatment seems to be helping. He's even cooing a little when I pick him up now. It's short but he kind of does a vibrating coo when I pick him up and he gets excited when I hold the bowl up. He even had the nerve to steal a sip from my soup yesterday night! His food was right in front of him and he turned and stuck his beak in my chicken noodle soup!

And guzzled!

I took it away because I wasn't sure if it was good for him. It didn't seem to affect him.. he's chipper. 

I'll see about the greens when I get some extra money. I have a court date tuesday and I work tomorrow.. so I don't know when I'll be able to.. but the super feed mix I bought should help him until I can get the greens...
Thank you for all of your help.. he's doing much better
Cali


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

THANKS SO MUCH for the update on Bonk, Cali!!

Still wish him love, hugs and scritches!!

You are doing such a great job with him! 

Shi


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I got up and went to take a shower.. passing up the spare room, or what we like to call the "rat room" because all of my pet rats are in there..

and I heard him pecking. When I looked Bonk was pecking at the food, and didn't appear to be flinging his head as badly as he was yesterday. I couldn't be sure without walking directly up to the cage.. he gets embarrassed and stops... 
well, that's the best way to describe it.. he stops and gives me a funny look like "I didn't fling that seed at you!"

He didn't want me watering him, he wanted to drink by himself last night, so I let him.
He's still listless, but dad told me that when I left him on the floor with paper under him, he flapped around alot. I think part of it was because dad turned on the fan and it was aimed towards his desk, and the low drafts caught Bonk. 

He still sits puffed up, but he had about 17 poops in the three hours I had him in the front room with me.. Once again, they varied in wetness, but were all dark brownish with a little white..

I have been keeping an eye on my flock, and so far none of them are showing signs of PMV. There was one little bird with a crooked leg but she hasn't returned to feed with my flock, and I worry about her. She was a pretty little thing

I have three pigeons I like alot.. one is a piebald, one is jet black, and the one that joined us yesterday was jet black with white flight feathers.
I wish I had a camera for these guys.. they're really pretty..

Here are some okay pics of Bonk after his first bath. He was still a little bit damp. 
















he has all of his feathers, even under his wing..








There's a funny lump on his toe there, you can see it. It's dark.. I think he scraped it but it didn't bleed. It appears to just be a random growth. Do you think it's bad? There's another smaller one on his other leg, but they don't appear to hurt him or anything.. he doesn't mind me messing with them, because I tested them to see if they were bug bites..


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Cali,

Pidgey mentioned something one time about how to focus for a close up. I'm not a camera buff, so I don't remember...maybe if you PM him, he can help.  

Shi


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

There's two videos but they're processing :S


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

mr squeaks said:


> Cali,
> 
> Pidgey mentioned something one time about how to focus for a close up. I'm not a camera buff, so I don't remember...maybe if you PM him, he can help.
> 
> Shi


Ah.......yes well my camera is a sucky little Aiptek DV 4500 so the focus isn't always wonderful. I'll try for a better picture of his poo for you guys later lol.


such a lovely promise


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, some of them just won't focus much closer than about 4 feet. In such cases, you have to stand that far back and use the optical zoom for all it's worth as well as the most resolution. Then, you crop the picture with Paint or some other photoshop kind of software.

Pidgey


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Yeah.. well I'll see what I can do.. meanwhile.. here's a video.. lol. kinda blah..

Video 1 isn't processed :S but here's the link anyway.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-OYeQ7rus


Video 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkDyLkJk-xw


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Caliandra said:


> Ah.......yes well my camera is a sucky little Aiptek DV 4500 so the focus isn't always wonderful. I'll try for a better picture of his poo for you guys later lol.
> 
> 
> such a lovely promise



Well, would YOU like to focus on POO?! Think of it from the camera's POV (sorry, I couldn't resist  ).


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Well, would YOU like to focus on POO?! Think of it from the camera's POV (sorry, I couldn't resist  ).


LAWL that's why I said..
such a lovely promise. "here's some poo pictures" lol...


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I have a few greens..
The stores don't seem to have Kale right now. I'll try to get some next week..

I bought turnip greens, mustard greens, and parsley. I wanted to check with you guys about the turnip greens before giving him any..
tips? suggestions? Any bit of advice helps. 
Thanks!
Cali


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> I have a few greens..
> The stores don't seem to have Kale right now. I'll try to get some next week..
> 
> I bought turnip greens, mustard greens, and parsley. I wanted to check with you guys about the turnip greens before giving him any..
> ...




Hi Cali, 


These are excellent...

Really, one 'Leaf' of a Turnip Green would do a single Pigeon for quite a while...far as volume goes..!


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cali,



I watched the Videos and indeed he is a little 'wangley' there in the pecking and slight tremors...


You need to get him SMALL Seeds, Finch Seed, Parakeet Seed, hulled Sun Flower 'kernals', Hemp Seeds...nothing larger than White Safflower.


When they have these troubles, the larger Seeds are a problem for them and bring on much worse wangles.


Also, get a better Seed Bowl, a small thick rimmed one, a thick rim rounded rim Custard Cup ( any thrift store for 25 Cents) so he is not hitting a sharp edge with his throat when he pecks...something less deep than that red plastic thing, too..something about an inch deep.

Or, just cot off the bottom inch or so of a larger size To-Go Cup...


Also, elevate it a little so he does not have to peck as far...set it on a thick paperback book or something like that.


And, also, gently have you hand over his Head so he can peck without raising his head and getting into the wangley motions.


In time, probably, he will recover to where this is not needed, but for now, it will make his pecking times much much more effecient.

I have some here presently who can not eat at all unless I do this, and with me doing this they manage very well and fill themselves up pronto...to go off and nap with happy Crops then.


Same with Water...

Good luck..!


Best wishes!

Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

yeah. I have been steadying him but I figured the video would be better for the experienced pidgie keepers if I wasn't helping him. 
He actually eats and drinks from a very shallow bowl all day. I noticed his crop was full and there was less food in his bowl when I came home to day. He's still jiggly but he is a determined Pidgie. He wants to live!
hehe

I'll be giving him greens today then


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Glad to hear he is doing so well...


Keep up the good work..!


Nothing like a full Crop from un-assisted pecking..!

Great for him, good for you too..!



Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> There's a funny lump on his toe there, you can see it. It's dark.. I think he scraped it but it didn't bleed. It appears to just be a random growth. Do you think it's bad? There's another smaller one on his other leg, but they don't appear to hurt him or anything.. he doesn't mind me messing with them, because I tested them to see if they were bug bites..


Hi Calandria,

A couple of our wood pigeons had something like that. The vet thought it was a Necrobacillosis but I think that was wrong, it didn't clear up with antibiotics and they weren't on the pad of the foot. One woodie lost the toe that the growth was on, the other eventually developed internal pox , so I think they were pigeon pox. Somewhere I must have a photo for comparison.

I have a pigeon with PMV/nervous symptoms in quarantine at the moment and she had a similar lump on her beak.

Cynthia


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh no! I hope it doesn't get worse! I can't afford to treat him for Pox AND PMV at the same time!! :S


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Those spots I mentioned, there are more on his legs. That appears to be the only area he is getting them. The big one has swollen and it appears to hurt him a little, but not majorly. If it is Pigeon Pox, what can I do? He's happier, cooing and trying to fly, and eating like a pig... but I'd hate to lose him to a secondary infection. I can't afford meds, is there any possibility of someone getting some to me? AGH!! I really love this little bird, he's my new buddy. I don't want to lose him O_O


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Cali,

Since both pox and PMV are caused by viruses, there is no medication for them. Good supportive care like you are doing should pull the little one through. We sometimes do give a course of antibiotics just in case some opportunistic bacterial thing comes along, but not always. If you will PM me your name and mailing address, I will send you some meds just in case they might be needed.

Terry


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

PM'ed. Thank you SOO much.. 
He is doing better other than the lumps on his legs multiplying.

thank you all!
Cali


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Update on Bonk..

The little guy is pulling through. Other than the big lump on his toe and the others forming on his leg, he is doing great. He eats by himself MUCH better now, preens, hovers. He hasn't quite got the hang of flying yet, tends to hover and then flit backwards, but he has made it to the top of the couch a few times. Dad really thinks he's cute. I'm going to have to save money and get him a good cage, from the looks of it. He comes over and sits by my feet, and loves to snuggle up with his head hiding in my hands.. which means he's my buddy.. hehee..

Even my boyfriend loves him lol. Who knew that a random match by someone I don't even know would turn out so well? He likes me and my pigeon too! LOL

He'll be sad to hear about the second rescue, but he saw the same thing I did, the bird was in terrible shape..

He's offered to help me with Bonk if I need it though, which I found incredibly sweet. Everyone else thinks I'm nuts lol.

Oh, and again, THANK YOU TERRY! I haven't got the meds yet but I know they'll help clear up whatever might attack while he's fighting off PMV and Pox..

*massive hugs to Terry* 

If I get a better job maybe I'll study up and open a pigeon rescue haven..  

well.. dad might not like it LOL


*hugs to all* 
Cali


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cali, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you trying to help the ferals. You have a kind heart. Bonk sounds so sweet and you'll find he is absolutely charming the longer you have him.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I love him to death lol

I do have a small question.. if a small, flat, obvious biting fly flew off of the other pidge I brought home, and I didn't kill it (I sprayed but I don't know exactly where it was at the time) could it carry something dangerous to my lil' guy? I really worry about that, the other pidge died from whatever she had and I don't want Bonk to get it from that stupid fly..


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Cali .. get some Sevin Dust from the garden store (Home Depot, Lowe's .. whatever) .. it's for plants but works very well and very safely on birds to eradicate pigeon flies and lice. Liberally dust the bird with Sevin being careful not to get any in the eyes, nares (nostrils), or mouth. The creepy crawlies will be gone in record time including the pigeon flies. Make sure you get some under the wings and into the "wing pits".

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> I love him to death lol
> 
> I do have a small question.. if a small, flat, obvious biting fly flew off of the other pidge I brought home, and I didn't kill it (I sprayed but I don't know exactly where it was at the time) could it carry something dangerous to my lil' guy? I really worry about that, the other pidge died from whatever she had and I don't want Bonk to get it from that stupid fly..




Hi Cali, 



Yes, at least in theory, Arthropod Vectors can and will transmit Viruses and Bacteria and other sources of Illness from Bird to Bird, and the Hippoboscidae, or 'Pigeon Fly', since they bite and sip Blood, can transmit various Blood borne illnesses in addition to Viruses.


If you can catch the 'fly' simply drown it in straight 100 percent HOT tap water running into a Cup...just hold him under for a few minutes and the heat and water will kill him.

Otherwise, they are very hard to kill and are very, very, tough.


Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Okay now to find the little bugger! *goes on the hunt* lol

thank you all. I'll be sure to get some Sevin dust as soon as I get my check in the credit union!


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Well. things were looking up for the longest time, but the pox has become HUGE on his feet and legs, and nowhere else. I dearly hope it doesn't become internal. Are there any ways I can slow it or help it stop? Anything? I really don't want to lose him to Pox after pulling him through PMV.. Dad thinks it's a shame that he got a "double whammy."

Any suggestions are helpful. I've been giving him garlic tabs every other day along with greens and the good bird foods I bought for him. I don't know what else to do for him! I haven't used the meds Terry sent because so far it is just the pox. Everything else seems fine..

Thank you all for your support and help. I may need a little more than that to get him through the Pox.... I really hope he makes it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Caliandra said:


> Well. things were looking up for the longest time, but the pox has become HUGE on his feet and legs, and nowhere else. I dearly hope it doesn't become internal. Are there any ways I can slow it or help it stop? Anything?


Thuja pilutes (homeopathic remedy) has been known to cure pox and get it out internally in a few weeks. Reti, one of our members has used it successfully. You can also apply a topical cream like tea tree oil, Betadine or Thuja oil on the lesions themselves.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> Well. things were looking up for the longest time, but the pox has become HUGE on his feet and legs, and nowhere else. I dearly hope it doesn't become internal. Are there any ways I can slow it or help it stop? Anything? I really don't want to lose him to Pox after pulling him through PMV.. Dad thinks it's a shame that he got a "double whammy."
> 
> Any suggestions are helpful. I've been giving him garlic tabs every other day along with greens and the good bird foods I bought for him. I don't know what else to do for him! I haven't used the meds Terry sent because so far it is just the pox. Everything else seems fine..
> 
> Thank you all for your support and help. I may need a little more than that to get him through the Pox.... I really hope he makes it.




Hi Caliandra, 



In addition to Tressas nice mention...you could consider to boost his immune System with some nice Teas.

Here is one which I make now and then, and it has very benificial for them.


Go to any Health Food Store which sells bulk powders, or, go on-line if need be to some concern who sells bulk powdered Herbs, and, get an ounce or two of each of the following three, and maybe half that of the second three items -


Goldenseal powder...

Echinechia powder...

Berberry powder...


Licorice powder...

Sarsaparilla powder...

Ginger powder...



Of these, to 2 quarts of Water, add about one heaping Tablespoon of each of the first three...and, add a heaping Teaspoon of the last three.


Simmer gently on a low heat, keeping it covered, for a few hours, adding more water if need be, and let cool.

You can transfer the Tea to some container to keep it in the fride so it does not spoil.

Use the Tea fifty-fifty with plain cool water, for all his Drinking Water.

If he rejectes it, water it down a little more.

Far as I have seen, the various Birds I have used this for, have liked it just fine.

This can help with Tumors, odd things, Viruses, or will just be good for their immune system regardless of their ailment.


Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Okay I'll see about the powders. I dearly hope I have enough money! O_O

Thanks!!
Cali


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

They do not cost very much when in the Bulk form...
likely less than Ten Dollars for what I described, all tolled...



But, in Capsules under fancy labels, they are pretty expensive...



Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

OKay.
I got Tea Trea oil rub for his feet
but I could not get the powders because all the health store near us had was liquid drops.. and I couldn't afford them O_O

I'll have to wait a while and just keep treating him with the garlic tabs every other day, and greens.. 
I hope that helps until I have the money to drive to another store farther off and buy the powders.

thanks so much for the information


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for taking such good care of this bird.

Be sure to use the tea tree oil at half strength and use a cotton swab to dab it onto the lesions on his feet.

The fume from tee trea oil can be strong, so please don't leave it around where the bird can inhale the fumes, or near his eyes or beak.

You can get garlic capsules from Wal mart, they are not that expensive and will help the immune system and purify the blood.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

mmkay
well the tea tree rub is helping but the pox marks are swelling and getting much bigger. 
He still is eating fairly well, I've been having to hand feed a little bit because he doesn't like standing on those sore feet very much.
From what I can tell his poops are just about perfect.. a little on the watery side but not too bad.
He tends to do a hoarse coo when he gets excited.. not the smooth, normal sounding one. It's been that way ever since he first made noise around me. Is that possible something to worry about?

Other than that he's doing really well!!
I appreciate all of your help and support through this, and I'm sure Bink (aka Bonk, Pidge, Helicopter) does too!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Cali. Hopefully it won't be too much longer before those pox lesions are gone and the bird is feeling chipper again.

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for the update, hope he feels better and over this soon!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> mmkay
> well the tea tree rub is helping but the pox marks are swelling and getting much bigger.
> He still is eating fairly well, I've been having to hand feed a little bit because he doesn't like standing on those sore feet very much.
> From what I can tell his poops are just about perfect.. a little on the watery side but not too bad.
> ...



Hi Cali,



Might be his Pox is also effecting his Voice or Vocal mechanism...and will clear up once it all clears up.


How old is he? And how are you feeding him when he is not eating on his own?



Phil
l v


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi Cali,

Just had an experience with a pox bird. Had huge growths on his beak (When I first saw him, I thought he had a shelled walnut on his beak). I named him John Merrick (The Elephant Pigeon). One growth was covering his one nostril (a rehabber pulled it off. Normally you wouldn't remove them though. Only if life threatening as this was). He also had a growth on his toe, his leg and on his eyes. When I realized that the rehabber didn't really know that much about it, I took him to a top avian vet. I asked this vet the same questions as you have addressed here. Here is what he told me. I asked if flat flies can spread this virus to my other healthy birds in the other rooms. He said no, that it was only mosquito bourne (I don't understand this, since I would think that all bloodsucking bugs would spread contagion, but that's what he said). He said that he saw a pox bird in a flock of other birds and none of the others ever got the pox. Said it seemed to spread a lot during mosquito season. It also can be spread if the lesions are bleeding and it comes in contact with another bird, or you touch the bloody lesion, and then go and touch another bird without washing your hands thoroughly. Most healthy adult birds fight the virus off without getting the lesions. It's the young birds and/or immune compromised birds that seem to get this the most. Support, as in the kind you are giving him, is important. Usually the disease follows a benign course and the bird recovers. Since there are no antivirals for this, the most important thing is to help the bird fight off any secondary infections he might have. Instead of just giving meds arbitrarily, I would take his poop to that rehabber (wrap the poop in Seran Wrap and put in a baggie) and see specifically what he has. The vet said that I could buy something called "Zodiac Flea Powder" for his flat flies and lice. It's made for cats and dogs, but is safe for pigeons. Believe it's sold in most pet stores. Another great thing I discovered at this vet's office is how to catch and kill these flat flies. One flew off my bird while he was examining him and landed on the wall. The vet went over to it with a spray bottle, and sprayed something at it. The little bugger instantly fell to the floor and the vet stepped on him. I immediately started asking him what the heck was in that bottle. It was an alcohol mixture. I think he said it was alcohol with some water mixed in, or maybe it was just straight alcohol. He said it doesn't kill them, but it temporarily paralyzes them so they fall and you can step on them. Isn't that great? I wish I had known that last week when I had a trich bird that died and had around 30 flat flies fly off of her. I spent the better part of the day chasing those monsters down. When the lesion was first bleeding, I put Neosporin on, but the vet said don't do too long, because the idea is to let the lesions dry up so they fall off. You don't want to keep them "moist". I don't know if Tea Tree Oil allows them to dry or not, but I'd try and see what happens. Anyway, John Merrick seemed to be doing well after his vet visit. But the next day, I noticed a lot of droplets of blood around the inside walls of the carrier he was in. I thought that maybe his beak was bleeding, but then I saw him throw up blood. He also started to make this funny screeching sound instead of cooing. Another couple of vets said he had probably had an internal growth that broke off and was traveling near his windpipe. No one could see anything down the throat so it was probably down in his trachea. He also at this time started shaking his head every two seconds all day long. Then it became a thrust outward of the head like the "Rock'em Sock'em robot" toys used to do. He had stopped eating and couldn't sleep. Unfortunately the vet I had taken him to two days earlier had the day off on this day, so I took him to another one. They couldn't see anything, just gave him fluids and tube fed him (he had stopped throwing up at that point). He kept the food down, but unfortunately died during the night. I think the vet who had the day off was one of the few who could have gone down into the trachea and gotten the obstruction out. So I felt just awful about this. Hope this story doesn't alarm you; just wanted you to know the signs and what to possibly watch out for. Here are links for information on Pigeon Pox and other ailments. For some reason I can't get into the first one right now. Maybe you can. These and other links can be found in this forum.

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html

http://www.jedds.com/DiseasesChooseASymptom.asp

Hope this helps. Zenmont [/SIZE]


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Thank you so much!

Okay, Phil. I'm just doing the normal hand feeding with seeds and garlic tabs. He is eating fine.

As for the pox, it appears to just be on his legs.. huge pox lesions on his toes and legs, but nowhere else. Not a one on his face or eyes. His eyes are clear and bright and he likes watching the new kittens romp around the room. 

He spazzed last night and hit the floor hard, I felt terrible for not having a hand over him.. but he's doing much better and even made a little coo noise when I went in there today. There are No signs of canker or sour crop. I've been keeping an extremely close eye on that. He appears to be sitting more than standing because of his lesions. When I walk in he gets up and moves around. I don't blame him for relaxing though, the lesions are pretty darned big.. I let him out every other day and he "practices" flying. He leaps up and flaps around, just about 5 inches off the floor, and then lands and looks around. I guess he's catching up with his exercise. lol.


I don't know how old this bird is. I would venture around 2 months old but I'm not sure exactly. Mom said that it's possible he's a very malnourished adult, but his ceres aren't white, they're sort of a creamy dark grey color.

I don't use the Tea Tree salve every day, just when the big lesion gets a little bloody looking because of where it's at. He's constantly stepping on it. The others appear to have stopped swelling. With any luck they will dry off quickly.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Caliandra, 


I have never encounted the Pox to have any first hand experience with it.

But, as it is a Virus, and a Virus which appreaently can effect things inside and out, I expect it can do some odd and troublesome things that could mimic any number of other illnesses even.

As a Virus, it will run it's course, and however long that takes, is how long it will take.


With any Virus, since we can not address or treat it directly, about all we can do then is to nourish their immune system, and, provide supportive care in various deferential ways according to the needs and comfort of the Bird.


Now, I myself have felt very positive about some simple Herb Teas which I learned a little about when I was a teenager, and used to make for myself now and then if I got the 'flu...and, since my mind is shot I do not remember if we discussed these?

Let me know..? And if you like, we can go over them.

These I feel very good about as for their safety and for their nourishing the immune system, and thus, for their possible aid in helping any Bird ( or anyone else ) who is afflicted with any sort of Virus.

In theory, these also discourage replications of endless undesireable bacteria or other germs which may be secondary inimicals in his system.


Too, and I hope others wiser than me will evaluate the idea - a dilute Hydrogen Peroxide solution may help dry out the lesions on his Legs, and thus allow him some better comforts...and simple immersion baths in a little low bowl or something could be a convenient means of application, with you steadying him so he does not get into full 'Bath' mode...

So this may help as a topical address to dessicate the lesions on his Legs...and, also, if applied with a Q-Tip, may do the same for whatever Pox Lesions he has elsewhere.


So in summary, about all I can think of, is to enhance his Nutrition as much as possible with a view to specifically encouraging and supporting his immune system, and, maybe, to evaluate on-going means of topical address for the actual visible lesions for them to get dried out and or soothed by dessication/Oxidation with some kind of Oxyginator/Oxidizer, such as dilute Hydrogen Peroxide.


My beloved 'Goji Berrys' would of course be good for him...if you are not already feeding them to him...

Is he eating on his own and drinking on his own well enough?


Will he abide 'Seed Pops' if you wanted? ( a good means of getting Berrys into him if he does not peck them on his own...)


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I actually haven't had the time to find a place that sells Goji Berrys nearby. I know I can get them, just not where. We're a bit far from the good grocery stores..

He's eating well enough on his own, drinking too. I just make sure to get a little bit more food and vitamins down him before I go to bed at night..

The teas I will have to order off the net. You gave me the names of the herbs and I know them well, I just haven't found a health store that sells them O_O they sold the liquid herbs for way too much. I couldn't afford them.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Here's an update on Bink Bonk Pidge (can't decide on a name lol)

He is doing TONS better.
I couldn't afford to buy the herbal treatments that Phil suggested.. but despite that the little guy is doing great. He's currently on my floor walking around and eating seed on his own.. He's soo cute.

The lesions appear to be drying on their own. I decided against using the tea tree salve. It didn't seem to do much other than sooth his sore foot, and make it hard for him to walk because it was slippery. He's still a little slim but he gets out and practices flying in my room. Still hasn't come farther than 6 inches off the ground, but he tries. He looks like he might start shedding soon. He seems to have a birdie smile right now.. wandering around my room and pecking at random seeds that I tossed down to him.

His poops were watery today, but other than that they appear to be pretty normal.

He's pecking away at his seed mix! I think I might have a chance to keep him going! 

Thank you all so much. I'll pop in periodically and update you with news, and if he molts soon, pictures of his new feathers.. And of course, if there are any worries or questions, I know where to come
*hugs and good wishes to all*
May all your pigeons smile and all their feathers shine!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Caliandra said:


> I actually haven't had the time to find a place that sells Goji Berrys nearby. I know I can get them, just not where. We're a bit far from the good grocery stores..
> 
> He's eating well enough on his own, drinking too. I just make sure to get a little bit more food and vitamins down him before I go to bed at night..
> 
> The teas I will have to order off the net. You gave me the names of the herbs and I know them well, I just haven't found a health store that sells them O_O they sold the liquid herbs for way too much. I couldn't afford them.




Hi Caliandra, 


Glad to hear he is getting to the stages of the Pox where the symptoms are diminishing.


This is a Virus, so, it will run it's course, and all we can do is offer supportive Care...and if we can, aid his immune system by nourishment and diet...and offer whatever comforts we can otherwise.



Grocery Stores will not carry 'Goji Berrys', unless it is a Chinese Grocery, where, they will be cheapest of all, but, they will go by a different name!


Health Food Stores will carry them, and unfortunately they are somewhat expensive, about $12.00 for a package, but one package could well last several months for a single Pigeon, so...not too bad really.


INgredients for Teas, if you still wanted to consider it, or, to jot it down for future occasions - 

Barberry powder

Echinechia powder

Goldenseal Powder

Licorice Powder

Ginger Root Powder

Any of various 'Brain' aids, or Immune boosters, such as Ginko powder, or blends

Proportions are very forgiving, but the Ginger Root Powder likely should be smaller portions, since it is rather strong and spicey, and, one wishes for the Bird to willingly drink the Tea of course, so one does not want it to be off-putting.


Simmer for half an hour or an hour as lightly as possible, and let steep for a few hours.


A good rounded Tablespoon of each, and a heaping Teaspoon of the Ginger, is fine for one Quart of Water. If the result is too strong for the Bird to wish to drink it, dilute it till they do gladly drink it...and then let this be their only Water for a week. Resultant Tea should be refrigerated, and used within three or four days then make new...it can spoil if left sitting for days on end at room temperature, getting molds on it, so...make a batch, keep in the frige, covered, and all should be fine, but still toss it after five days say, if any remains, and make new.


"Tricanox" ( Jedds?) seems VERY likeable to me also...and has a nice flavor they seem to enjoy, and is a sort of cousin in it's way to these orders of Teas...or they to it.



Best wishes..!

Phil
l v


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Pidge is doing AMAZING.. the little fellow flies everywhere in the house (After warming up)
The lesions dried up and fell off, there's just a pale spot where they were. 
He's a pig and loves to fly around the front room. It makes it hard to catch him lol

Anyway.. there is the update! I thought all of you would like a happy ending..


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am glad to hear he is doing so wonderful! Thank you for all the supportive care you have given him, and following our recommendations, qhixh can all be a bit overwhelming when you are not familiar with pigeons.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Wonderful news! I'm so glad we have a happy outcome here!

Terry


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Pidgie is a SHE lol

and she's doing very well....
sweet little thing 
I'm so glad I pulled her through..

Who knows, maybe I'll get her a buddy.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm glad all is well! Let us know if you decide on a pigeon buddy .. there's no shortage of pigeons needing a good home.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the wonderful news.
She might appreciate a pigeon friend 

Reti


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Just finished reading the whole saga -- this is soooo wonderful  More pictures soon??? Sure is a cutie


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Dezirrae said:


> Just finished reading the whole saga -- this is soooo wonderful  More pictures soon??? Sure is a cutie



I will try to get good pictures.. maybe even a video hehe..
Gotta recharge batteries O_O

I'll see what I can do..


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I'm so glad Pidgie is doing so well. You really nursed her through it. Great job! Love the happy ending.

Margaret


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

THANKS!
If it weren't for the lovely support on the forum, with wishes of luck and tips for pulling her through healthily, I might have just sent her to the rehabilitator to do what was necessary, but mom agreed that the rehabber would likely just put the "vermin" or "pest" down.. 

she's not a vermin or a pest! She's a cute little pidgy.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Updates!! LOL
I got a new camera..








this is the little girl now. She's doing well, flies around. Poops. lots of those.. lots and lots of poops. I don't handle her except to put her in her little cage for the night, which she hates, She much prefers to fly around the living room.
LOL
Thank you, again, for all of your help. I'll be sure to post more and better pics when she's done molting.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

she is so pretty. Great pic, thanks for sharing.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Cali,

Bonk looks terrific. What a great job you did pulling this little girl through her sickness.  I know you love her to pieces.

Thank you for the great update.


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

It has been a while, but for everyone who helped me with Bonk, thank you! He eventually moved up to my mom's farm, into a flight cage. He escaped one day, and spent the rest of his life on the farm, as a resident  

I have a feral that I rescued today, a young one who isn't fully fledged, but close. I need a few tips on getting him to eat, since I'm not a mommy pigeon! His poops are a dark green, with a yellowy white Urate, and slightly watery. Not bad, the solids are pretty firm. He's taken a liking to me instantly, but my husband isn't so sure about a baby pigeon. He wants me to find a home for him LOL.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, I just enjoyed reading the story of 'bonk'. Still a good ending as she was well and capable of living a good life. She made the decision to be free and sounds like she had a great place to live around.

Funny how a new pigeon usually turns up!
What's the background to this new youngster. Is it sick and grounded do you think or just fledged and unable to fly?
Apart from making sure it's hydrated before feeding the easiest thing to start it off on are defrosted peas or sweetcorn. Don't know if you've fed these before but generally youngsters take to them if you pop them into their mouths and gently push them to the back of the throat and they'll swallow them.
Once they get the liking for them they're easy for them to start to pick up for themselves and they can then go on to seeds more easily after mastering that.

Generally monitor this little ones droppings to see if there seems to be any health problems otherwise if it's just feeding it needs, it should be straight forward.
Good luck convincing hubbie to love this new addition!!!

Janet


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

Well.

The poop is a dark, greenish browh. The urates are slightly yellowish off white, and there is a small amount of slightly mucus-like fluid around it. It's not thick.. just sticky.
Other than that, I know they are fed what their parents give them through the parent's mouth.. so I tried a bit of watery baby oatmeal (the kind you give to a human child) because I knew he needed some fluids. He wasn't severely dehydrated, but the underpass we found him under was extremely hot, with a few babies lying dead around him. I suspect he tried to fledge but his feathers are all still pinfeathers. He really liked sitting on my shoulder in the car, on the way home. Kept climbing up there when I brought him down. 

My main worry is that we have two parrots at home, whom we are trying to keep the little fellow away from. A Hahn's Macaw and a Green Cheek Conure.
Anything I should worry about from bird to bird? I'm obviously washing my hands and we have him in a separate, small cage. I'm probably going to keep him in our bathroom, where the circulation won't carry his feather sheaths into the other rooms as he sheds them.

He ate heartily of the liquidy oatmeal, so I ground up some seeds, kale, and romaine lettuce in our "Magic Bullet" blender, and offered it to him. He's eaten a few bites of it. I made it a bit watery, too, so he's getting plenty of fluids. I need a proper dropper for that, as he doesn't understand when I try to give it with a syringe..(all we had on hand.)

I wasn't planning on keeping the little guy, we have a lot of priorities now.. (a 15 month old baby girl, for example) and I don't think the husband wants me to keep a cute little guy with yellow fuzz on his feathers. lol. We shall see though. I just might. 

I'll see about some peas and corn for him, though he likes my mush that I made... hehe.

Thanks again
Cali


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## Caliandra (Aug 29, 2007)

I guess I'll be putting a poo photo on Facebook, photobucket won't cooperate LOL. People will REALLY think I'm weird now!


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