# How long can a cracked egg survive?



## Paris

Hello to all and thank for an amazing website. I am a neophyte both to pigeons and this site. Feral pigeons have nested in my window box in Paris, France. It has been an exciting and amazing experience, with their nest just an arm's length from my computer. I named the pigeon couple Patience and Constant. One egg was laid on June 25 and a second egg was laid 4 days later. The first hatched exactly 18 days after it was laid on Bastille Day (July 14th), and the second egg cracked the same day, which was over 4 days ago now, but it has not hatched. It has a hole it about 2cm (3/4") wide and is a little crushed. You can see that there is a chick in there, but it looks dry and doesn't move. I have not touched anything.

Today, after Constant, the male, arrived, he nudged the egg away from the nest while he got himself settled on the sleeping, first-born squab. I thought, well, they are going to push it out of the nest. To my surprised, he then nudged the egg back underneath him and sat on it for the rest of the day. It is still there now under Patience, the female. 

Is there any hope that this egg will hatch a healthy squab? If the egg is dead, will the pigeons eventually nudge it out of the nest? If not, should I remove it? Is it liable to have an infection that could hurt the surviving squab? 

The single squab is growing, feeding vigorously, and just opened its eyes today. I have named it Hope. 

Many thanks in advance for any information or advice.
Pigeon Paris


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## Pidgey

They can dry out and get stuck if the shell gets cracked too far ahead of its time. I hate to say it but you probably better check this one out and see if he's still alive.

Pidgey


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## Paris

*How to check out a cracked egg?*

Hi Peggy
Thank you for your reply and advice but how do I check out this egg? I'm under the impression that if i touch it, the parents could abandon the whole nest. I was able to look at it quite closely, and it seems dried out and there is no movement. I think it cracked prematurely, it was only its 15th day.

Before I could figure out how to work this site, i sent a PM to pigeonkeeper as I could tell he was knowledgeable and active and he said that by now the egg was not likely to make it. 

I also saw on another post that eggs that do not hatch within 48 hours of the first, are unlikely to survive.

Right now I"m thinking i should just let the parents nudge it out of the nest, but I'm worried about infection hurting the surviving squab...

thanks again
pigeonparis


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## Pidgey

Oh, no, it doesn't work that way... you might scare them off for a few minutes but they're nowhere near that flighty. You won't leave a scent that'll make them abandon their chicks or give an infection, either.

Pidgey


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## Paris

Hi Pidgey

Well, the reason I'm reluctant to touch the egg is because 2 years ago, two pigeon eggs were laid in another windowbox. My flowers were trashed. In a moment when there was no pigeon on the eggs, I pulled some of the dead rotting flowers out - not touching the nest at all, nor the eggs. Two pigeons on the roof across the courtyard started screaming at me and I knew they were the parents. They never came back to the nest and abandoned the eggs altogether.

This time, the second egg was only 15 days old when it started to crack, i think it was just too young to survive.

In any case, do you think I could water the ivy that is surrounding the windowbox (not touching the nest) without scaring off the birds?

When either flies in for a shift, he or she will often spend time (like 30 seconds which seems like a lot) just looking at me. They do tolerate me opening the window slowly and gently.

Thanks again for your replies to this post!
pigeonparis


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## Pidgey

Oh, well, they're not usually that spookable when they're sitting on actual chicks. You might try pulling the egg out when they're changing the guard.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC

pigeonparis said:


> Hi Pidgey
> 
> Well, the reason I'm reluctant to touch the egg is because 2 years ago, two pigeon eggs were laid in another windowbox. My flowers were trashed. In a moment when there was no pigeon on the eggs, I pulled some of the dead rotting flowers out - not touching the nest at all, nor the eggs. Two pigeons on the roof across the courtyard started screaming at me and I knew they were the parents. They never came back to the nest and abandoned the eggs altogether.
> 
> This time, the second egg was only 15 days old when it started to crack, i think it was just too young to survive.
> 
> In any case, do you think I could water the ivy that is surrounding the windowbox (not touching the nest) without scaring off the birds?
> 
> When either flies in for a shift, he or she will often spend time (like 30 seconds which seems like a lot) just looking at me. They do tolerate me opening the window slowly and gently.
> 
> Thanks again for your replies to this post!
> pigeonparis


Welcome to the forum and thank you so much for your concern about this little family.

If there is any chance the nest can get wet from watering the ivy, I wouldn't do it.


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## myrpalom

Hello Pigeon Paris
Thank you for caring for those pigeons.
Could you help Patience and Constant by putting some pigeon or birds seed out for them while they raise their chick?
It is a well known fact that pigeons have a very difficult life in Paris because of the feeding ban. Many of them are starving. 
It will give Hope a better chance in life if the parents are well fed.
Thank you,
Myriam (pigeon rescue Lapalomatriste, Belgium)


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## Paris

Thanks Maggie and Myriam for your replies and advice! Myriam, I didn't know about the feeding ban in Paris. How helpful to have a Belgian advisor!!! 

First I put a large spoonful of cooked peas in a corner of the windowbox. They were not touched and dried up. Then I put a little plastic bowl of flax seed (grains de lin) on top of the peas - but they seem to walk on it, not eat it. I don't know what bird seed is called in French - I'm sure it's not "grains de pigeons" ! Where can i get it? What about sunflower seeds? What else do they like to eat?

Also - what about putting out some water? It has been very dry here...
I've noticed them panting when it's been hot.

I love this little pigeon family! I would be happy to help them. I feel their presence in my window box is a gift. Thank goodness for the Internet - I have learned so much in 3 weeks. Thank you so much for your help.

Best wishes from Paris


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## myrpalom

*Grains pour pigeons*

Pigeon seed is indeed "graines pour pigeons" in French. I suppose you can buy them in an "animalerie".
If you PM me your adres (or "arrondissement") I'll see if there is someone close to you who feeds the pigeons and who can tell you where to buy it.
In the meantime, any seeds will do: graines pour canaris, graines pour oiseaux sauvages (wild birds), graines pour tourterelles. All those are better than the crap the pigeons eat in Paris.
Myriam


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## philodice

I just had a dove couple hatch here 2 weeks ago in my flock.
The one hatched out fine, but egg 2 was pipping and about to crack. I was excited. I checked it again that night, egg still not really hatched, no big holes, just cracks. In the morning, no progress. It was hot and dry, I begin to feel the chick is weakening, dehydrating, stuck in the egg. I open up a hole near his head and give a tiny drop of water, he sucks it up. A few more drips and he seems to be moving more. I put him back in the nest so he can finish hatching naturally, a drop of blood appeared on the shell so I stopped picking it or the chick could die from me helping too much. I check at night, baby is not in good shape. Stuck in the egg, and hasn't been fed. I say, I'm not letting this one die. I put it in a bath of warm water to get the egg off, kept his head above water and that egg was REALLY stuck to him. Gave him rehydrating solution, tiny sips! This bird was the size of, well, an egg. Spent a total of 4 days trying to hatch during a Sonoran desert heat wave over 100-112 f. I rushed into the house with the bird to give a few bits of food after he started wiggling around. He might make it!
A tiny bit of food got into the bird. I put him back with his parents.
The next morning, I got a nice big feeding into the baby. Parents were not feeding him at first, because big brother was pushing him out of the way, he was not strong enough. So I fed him hoping that he would become strong enough to get food from the parents. Next night, I come home to find the runt is now full of food from the parents, strong and wiggly! Little Phoenix as I call him is now learning to fly, and doesn't remember that I saved his life.

So I think the second baby got all dried out and tired. Once the egg cracked, air gets into the egg and starts drying things out. The membrane of the egg dried onto the baby too quickly because it is hot and he couldn't get it off by himself. If the egg doesn't hatch within 48 hours of the first egg, the first baby is too strong for the 2nd to compete for the food. So Nature sets this 48 hour time limit. After that, the baby needs intervention or will not survive in any case.


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## Maggie-NC

Phil, what a marvelous story. I am so glad you were able to save little Phoenix. It took a lot of courage for you to do what you did and God bless you for it.


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## pigeonpoo

Amazing story. One question: how do you tell where the head is? I had a similar situation - the egg was chipped and had a small hole... then nothing... I tried spitting into the hole to lubricate things but dare not intervene further. My chick never made it out of the shell.


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## philodice

I just assumed the chip was where the baby had made the hole, so it's head must be behind the chip, and I enlarged that hole as much as I dared, then put my finger in some water and let that tiny drop go on the squab's beak and he drank a few of those drops and started wiggling again.
I have this whole article titled "dead in shell" that goes into all this great info, from the ADA, that I included in my e-book. Really saved Phoenix's life but it isn't information that is really widely distributed. I can imagine, most books tell you that interfering can kill the chick too but I had to take that chance. If Phoenix was doomed to die I rather it to be from something I DID WRONG rather than something I DIDN'T do.


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## Paris

Philodice, you are incredible! That's an inspiring and happy story which I will remember. It's too late for my egg, which the parents keep sitting on, though...
The surviving squab, Hope, is continuing well, thank goodness.

I tried putting out some fresh flax seeds today and was wing-slapped by the sitting dad, Constant! That's the first time a wild animal has ever given me a personal message!

Thanks to all for sharing your stories and advice.


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## little bird

pigeonpoo said:


> Amazing story. One question: how do you tell where the head is? I had a similar situation - the egg was chipped and had a small hole... then nothing... I tried spitting into the hole to lubricate things but dare not intervene further. My chick never made it out of the shell.


One should never allow human saliva to invade a birds beak.....different bacterias and very dangerous TO THE bird.


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## LaBre

Wing-slapped in Paris!! That's hilarious! I'm enjoying following the adventures of Constant, Patience, and Hope in Paris. This is great stuff!


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## myrpalom

Hello Jane
A pigeon friend in Paris emailed me that the best place in your neighbourhood to buy "des graines pour pigeons" is the huge supermarket on the Avenue du Maine called "ATAC" (opposite the Gare Montparnasse - or more exactly the Total gasoline station). In the basement-level part there's a fairly amazing (for Paris) selection of grain for both pigeons and doves in generous four-kilo bags at extremely reasonable prices (a few euros). 
I hope your little pigeon family is doing well and that you will find what is necessary to help them raise the baby. I would not put the seeds in a bowl, they are feral and might not recognize there is food inside it. Just put it on the floor of your balcony. As for the wing slapping part, don't worry, I get 10 or 15 every day since 16 years... and I am still alive!


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## Paris

Hi Myriam

Thank you so much for finding this out for me - I know exactly where it is, although I've never been inside there. Can't wait to see that amazing basement! As for putting the feed out - I don't have a balcony. The pigeons' nest is in a flower box on my window ledge. So the only place to put the bird seed is in a corner of the window box... which I will do unless you advise me otherwise. 

But what about putting out water? Obviously that would need a bowl or a container. I have a small clear plastic tub - about the size of a margarine tub.

Patience and Constant do look healthy and rather plump. The baby Hope has doubled in size in his first week, and seems to be eating well. He is left alone for a couple minutes every afternoon. He's not walking yet, but now I am wondering do I have to worry about him walking off the window box when the parents aren't around?

Today was the first day that Hope seemed to notice me. He was rather surprised and puffed up - and then dove for cover under the belly of Patience. 

Thank you again for your help, Myriam!

Jane in Paris


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