# Young Bird Training ...



## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

I could use some guidance towards Young Bird training. 

PHASE-I: After my young birds are 5 - 6 weeks old, I let them sit on the landing board with a cage so they can get a good view and get themselves trap-trained. This seems to do well on that. I do this for about a week and they get the hang of it quickly. 

Phase-II: It is this phase I have a challenge with and I have lost multiple YBs. As I let them out of my loft unrestricted they often just hang outside the loft and sit there and go back in the loft after an hour or so. However, if they take off (confused, don't know how to land quickly, follow an older bird, slight wind, I shoowed them, etc) - then there is 50% chance they are gone! It is at this phase when I lose YBs. Some fly around the loft and land - they seem OK thereafter. But some take off, get further and further away as they circle around the house, get confused and don't come back. I live in a residential area whereby many of the houses look very similar from the top for first time flying bird. 

So, it is first flight around the house is what scares me the most. HOW DO I improve my odds. I love these birds and hate to lose them!

Thanks!


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## eshghekaftar (Mar 7, 2009)

From your name I'm assuming you're talking about high flyers, so here's what I do and it works for me.

I know its hard but you have to be PATIENT with young birds. During your phase one, make sure they learn how to trap and respond to your feeding call before moving to phase 2 as follows. Don't feed them the day before, let them out by themselves (not with older birds) for half an hour or so then call them in to feed, they should trap right away. Repeat this every day but let them out for longer and longer periods and call them in to feed. Here's where patience comes in, DON'T spook them or force them to fly, eventually some of them will take off by themselves, circle around and land. Soon enough they'll all do that and as time passes they stay in the air longer and longer as they learn the area and develop more confidence. Only at this stage you can flag them if you want or let them fly with your older birds and they'll be fine and you won't loose any.

Hope it helps and good luck.


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## pigeonflier (May 4, 2014)

I also live in the city where its roof-top after roof-top and the best thing I can tell you is that you have to get mentally to the point that you don't care,, cause its only what stays is what stays,, and what flies off is gone!!! I basically do as you described,, and not much more. I try to make sure they are a little stronger on the wing than most,, but in the city the must be able to get off the ground in a hurry when needed!! All the roofs look the same from above,, but somehow they manage all on their own??? Its always the ones that you worry about loosing are the ones that get lost trying to settle!! So if you just don't worry about any,, then you have nothing to be disappointed about in the end!!!!


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## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

eshghekaftar said:


> From your name I'm assuming you're talking about high flyers, so here's what I do and it works for me.
> 
> I know its hard but you have to be PATIENT with young birds. During your phase one, make sure they learn how to trap and respond to your feeding call before moving to phase 2 as follows. Don't feed them the day before, let them out by themselves (not with older birds) for half an hour or so then call them in to feed, they should trap right away. Repeat this every day but let them out for longer and longer periods and call them in to feed. Here's where patience comes in, DON'T spook them or force them to fly, eventually some of them will take off by themselves, circle around and land. Soon enough they'll all do that and as time passes they stay in the air longer and longer as they learn the area and develop more confidence. Only at this stage you can flag them if you want or let them fly with your older birds and they'll be fine and you won't loose any.
> 
> Hope it helps and good luck.


I must confess that I have done a poor job of establishing a feeding call - I attempted it but I don't have one effectively. I take the food away in the evening and put it back after I have let the birds out in the morning so the food is there when the trap back in. Should I start now by starving them for a day so they learn the next day ? 

I only have two sections in my loft - the Breeder section and the "Flying-Bird" section. In the Flying-bird section, I have both very Young-Birds (5 - 6 weeks old) and older Young-Birds (2 - 4 months old) that are somewhat trained to fly around and trap back in. I don't have much older birds in this section because I only started my loft in March. So, when I let my birds out, it is all YBs both vey-Young that need training and older YBs (2 - 4 months old) that seem trained. 

The challenge is that when they ALL come out together, sometimes they all just sit on the loft roof basking in the sun (I worry about the hawks) and just be lazy. If some take off on their own or I push/flag them, the very-Young may or may not take off. If they do take off - then I run the strong risk of them being GONE! 

I also read in your comments to be PATIENT and don't push them - I understand. However, I am also concerned that as they get stronger by the day but don't fly - WHEN they fly, they will go far and definitely get lost. 

Sorry, if I seem confused because I am. 

Please feel free to critique  as I wish to improve my odds. I understand that I will lose some YBs regularly but I feel I am losing too many at the moment  

Thanks!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Kabootarbaaz said:


> I could use some guidance towards Young Bird training.
> 
> PHASE-I: After my young birds are 5 - 6 weeks old, I let them sit on the landing board with a cage so they can get a good view and get themselves trap-trained. This seems to do well on that. I do this for about a week and they get the hang of it quickly.
> 
> ...


You might be doing things right. Not you but the bloodline is to blame. If the young are leaving their home loft then you must take following steps. I have two same bloodlines whose young do the same. I believe you have pakistani HFs. I know these birds to the bone

•First thing you need to do is color you landing board. Two favorite colors are cherry and navy blue. Choose one of them. Your landing board will stand out when the birds will fly.
•The landing board must be elevated from the ground on a pole. Birds with such bloodline need to be seated on landing boards for atleast 15 days before letting them fly(I'll post a pic of cage if you want).
•usually flying HFs are fed once a day. But if you wanna feed twice,feed required amount of feed and remove feeders afterwards. Get a white cheeko bird and always show him to YBs before feeding so that they associate the white cheeko with feed. So when they're hungry show them the cheeko and they will come flying into loft taking the cheeko as a signal of feeding.
•Such YBs must not be flown until their eye color start to change. Keep them all day on landing board(ofcourse not in harsh sun/weather) and trap them in for feeding in evening. Keep doing this until their eye color changes.
•The day you decide to let YBs fly don't fly all the birds together. Fly one bird first. While he's flying make his partners sit on landing board. Let him fly and land on his own on landing board. Then its the second bird's turn and so on. When all the birds are settled means you have tried them one by one then fly them in a kit of of 3-5. Keep rest of birds as contingency inside the loft. Fly OLD BIRDS/already settled birds too on that day. Because unlike homers HFs don't route and take young birds away. They circle around the loft and serves like a beacon to wandering young birds to where the loft actually is. When and if a young bird wanders,show cheekos and pull out contingency birds and allure the wandering bird to land. Once/twice a HF comes back he never leaves.


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## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> You might be doing things right. Not you but the bloodline is to blame. If the young are leaving their home loft then you must take following steps. I have two same bloodlines whose young do the same. I believe you have pakistani HFs. I know these birds to the bone
> 
> •First thing you need to do is color you landing board. Two favorite colors are cherry and navy blue. Choose one of them. Your landing board will stand out when the birds will fly.
> •The landing board must be elevated from the ground on a pole. Birds with such bloodline need to be seated on landing boards for atleast 15 days before letting them fly(I'll post a pic of cage if you want).
> ...


Can you please post a picture of the landing board you are suggesting and the Cage please ...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Not a problem! I will post when I get home after work


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Here's a pic from my album. Pigeons have brilliant color vision. We can exploit that in a good way. The pink thing you see on left side is movable landing board called "Chatri" in hindi/Urdu/punjabi. Its placed inside the loft first so that YBs get used to the color and get used to sitting on it. When its placed outside, the birds land nowhere else but only on this movable landing board. But remember bloodlines always matter. Quality bloodlines are easy to manage with just a little effort and proper training.


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## fishbone (Nov 24, 2013)

i had a couple of young birds that where trapped trained. i would let them out, and they would just hang around the loft area, and never would range farther then the yard.
i let them do this for a while, so they where real familiar....

i didn't want to flag them off to get them to fly, and get them spooky.

i have a couple of 6 month old birds that are well trained, and are sitting on fake eggs.
i would take the two young birds, and the older bird, that is sitting on the eggs down the road a 1/4 of a mile and let them loose. the young birds stay right with the older bird. they would circle around a little, and the older bird comes right back to it's nest, with the two young birds in tow, perfect!

i kept doing this in all directions, and a little farther everytime. been working great. i only did this up to 3 miles. then i train the young birds on their own, and they can fly at their own pace then.

i know i've read that you don't train young birds with old birds. but with the old birds sitting on eggs, they don't do any extra flying/ranging, and want to get right home to their nest.

plus i know my young birds ARE, ranging and learning the area, and not just sitting in a tree somewhere, when i think there out ranging.
it sure speeds up the whole process, and they got quality time training/ranging.

it's worked out great for these two young birds.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi fishbone, when doing this do you take both the older birds having eggs or the one which is actually not sitting on eggs?


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## fishbone (Nov 24, 2013)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Hi fishbone, when doing this do you take both the older birds having eggs or the one which is actually not sitting on eggs?


i'll take both of the older birds. they stick together, so i know they both will get right back to the nest.
i tested them first. 

safest bet, would be to just take the one on the nest. it's coming right back for sure.
mine are on fake eggs, so thats not a issue pulling it off the nest.


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## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Here's a pic from my album. Pigeons have brilliant color vision. We can exploit that in a good way. The pink thing you see on left side is movable landing board called "Chatri" in hindi/Urdu/punjabi. Its placed inside the loft first so that YBs get used to the color and get used to sitting on it. When its placed outside, the birds land nowhere else but only on this movable landing board. But remember bloodlines always matter. Quality bloodlines are easy to manage with just a little effort and proper training.


Yes, I am familiar with the concept of Chatri - I saw it on some of the roof tops as a young boy growing up in Pakistan. 

I have actually built a simple Chatri next to my Loft - it is about 8 feet from the ground. At this height its actually a little lower then by Loft's roof. When I release the young birds they go and sit on the Chatri but then they quickly move to the top of the loft where they sit for extended period of time. When I built the Chatri, I designed it with the thought that my birds would land on it and sit on it before they would enter the loft's trap door. 

With your explanation, I am realizing that definitely my Chatri (white in color) is not high enough (with it being 8 feet high from the ground and slightly lower then the roof of my loft). That is probably why the birds eventually settle on the Loft's roof soon thereafter because it is higher then the Chatri (you think?) and they often land on the loft's roof as well. The Chatri is definitely not very visible from the sky considering I also have tall trees surrounding the two story house about 30 ft away from the loft/chatri. 

So besides the color, I need to make my Chatri higher. I can probably add another 4 - 6 feet to it perhaps. However, I live in decent neighborhood and i am concerned that a tall Chatri would look odd and neighbors might complain as they make more notice of the birds/chatri. So I have to balance the aesthetics such that my Chatri is useful/effective for the pigeons but not very imposing otherwise. 

How high of a chatri is high-enough with the info I provided ? I can also paint the sky-facing side of Chartri RED. 


Thanks!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Kabootarbaaz said:


> I must confess that I have done a poor job of establishing a feeding call - I attempted it but I don't have one effectively. I take the food away in the evening and put it back after I have let the birds out in the morning so the food is there when the trap back in. Should I start now by starving them for a day so they learn the next day ?
> 
> IThanks!


The best feeding call you can use is a whistle. Everytime i feed my homers, i blow my whistle 3 times......without fail, as i am walking with their food, i begin to blow the whistle, by the third time, the food is ready for them to eat...when they hear the first whistleblow, my older birds go straight to where they are feed...they know what it means when they hear the whistle sound. It's the easiest way to train them because you feed them 2 times a day, believe me it doesn't take long before they "get it!"


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

fishbone said:


> i had a couple of young birds that where trapped trained. i would let them out, and they would just hang around the loft area, and never would range farther then the yard.
> i let them do this for a while, so they where real familiar....
> 
> i didn't want to flag them off to get them to fly, and get them spooky.
> ...


What breed of birds do you have?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Kabootarbaaz said:


> Yes, I am familiar with the concept of Chatri - I saw it on some of the roof tops as a young boy growing up in Pakistan.
> 
> I have actually built a simple Chatri next to my Loft - it is about 8 feet from the ground. At this height its actually a little lower then by Loft's roof. When I release the young birds they go and sit on the Chatri but then they quickly move to the top of the loft where they sit for extended period of time. When I built the Chatri, I designed it with the thought that my birds would land on it and sit on it before they would enter the loft's trap door.
> 
> ...


Yes if chatri is lower than loft they proabably would like to sit on loft.

Preferably Chatri should be atleast 5 feet higher than loft and it must be 10-15 feet away from loft. So that they see the birds inside loft and must land on landing board without any difficulty. By flying from chatri onto landing board they will settle themselves to your loft and will get used to surroundings. Birds must not sit anywhere else but on chatri for effective training. Then they will not land on any one's rooftop too once they condition themselevs sitting on chatri only


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## fishbone (Nov 24, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> What breed of birds do you have?


racing homers


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

fishbone said:


> racing homers


I knew... I wanted to convey to you that this thread is about training pakistani High Flyers they are trained in a different way. They can't be taken away from loft.


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## fishbone (Nov 24, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> I knew... I wanted to convey to you that this thread is about training pakistani High Flyers they are trained in a different way. They can't be taken away from loft.


sorry, i missed that. thx.
i should have know better to participant in something that requires reading skills.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Kabootarbaaz said:


> Can you please post a picture of the landing board you are suggesting and the Cage please ...


So sorry for delay in posting pics kabootarbaaz,
Its monsoons here as you know and its raining every other day. It was raining yesterday.

YBs training starts early when they're 32-35 days old. Earlier you train them,more easy for them to adjust and condition themselves. I have a big,huge and massive falcon/hawk problem. So I elevate the cage 12 feet from ground,5 feet from loft. The birds see around and get used to lofts surroundings. With Indian and Pakistani HFs, all fanciers face problem of losing young birds because they're too strong on wings and low on wits. But if you train this way you won't lose YBs. After they are caged all day/for few hours daily,the cage is brought down and taken near the door/trap. The door of cage is opened facing trap/loft so that birds don't fly in any other direction but into the trap/loft. It needs to be done for few days then YBs get to know the regime. Then slowly the cage is taken few feet away from loft and door of cage is opened and they fly into loft. Make sure when you open cage door the cheeko/other birds must be there in loft so YBs land near him. ALWAYS give feed them IMMEDIATELY when they enter loft.















you can cover the bottom of cage with red cloth or paper.

You can tag three outer flights of young birds with a rubber band until they're ready to fly up. This way they won't wander.


Keep training like this until their eye color starts to change. Then on the day you decide to try a YB, cage all the birds like usual, except the one you're gonna fly. Sit him out over the top of the cage with other birds inside for 15 mins and then shoo him. He will fly and land on cage or landing board,let him. Sly try all the birds like this one by one. If they fly and come back on their own it safe to let them fly together with old birds/already settled birds with cheeko sitting on the cage.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

fishbone said:


> sorry, i missed that. thx.
> i should have know better to participant in something that requires reading skills.


That's absolutely fine! Cheers!!!


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## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

Thank you Jass for your tremendous guidance and suggestions. For now I have raised my Chatri and painted it cherry red ... Now I have to slowly retrain my birds to use it more and more


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## Kabootarbaaz (Dec 15, 2013)

*Train YBs very early vs little later ...*

I understand that one should start trap training the YBs when they are 5 - 8 weeks old. The question is when should one encourage them to fly ? 

I have read that one should push them early when they are not too wing strong and low on their wits so they don't go too far and only fly around the loft.

I have also read to wait until their eyes change color and when they also have some strength before one push them to fly.

These two recommendations seem opposite of each other ... So which one should I follow ???


For my birds, I have noticed that the YBs I tend to lose are typically the youngest/weakest of the lot ... Which tells me take my sweet time before I push them or even start the training routine ...


Your thoughts ...


Thanks!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You're most welcome

It really depends on the bloodlines and habits peculiar to it.
I have a pair whose young never need any special training while most of my YBs birds need training. For me wits and reasoning is more important. If YBs develop wits and reasoning early they can be flown as soon they develop them. Maturity does not necessarily comes with age so if one has such birds who develop wits and reasoning after they get too strong on wings then he needs to train them strictly. Most fine bloodlines of Indian and Pakistani HFs are derived to be less social because in competitions bird is supposed to fly alone. So its a counter effect of selective breeding to produce such birds that their young become less docile and less social which needs to be trained for long. If one loses YBs he must train them until their eye color changes.


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## Crusso69 (May 11, 2019)

I find the best way to train pigeons is by letting them out right before the Sun is setting Birds want to be inside so they stick around get to know the place more and trap easier do this for a a few days the likelihood that they will stay is greater give them space and let them poke around on their own do not shooo them


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