# I'm new with a lot of question.



## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi. I'm starting with some colored homer and I like to know what color do you call for this pigeons.
Thanks.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Welcome!

These birds look like archangel bronze homers to me, probably also dilute or pale. The breeder should be able to give you more information.

There are a lot of threads on here about some web-pages that deal with pigeon genetics. They're well worth the read. (Alternatively I also have a couple of links on my website - if you don't want to search the old forum posts)


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## ljb107 (Apr 15, 2007)

They look like dilute blue cheqs with a bit of bronze. Possibly gimpel bronze but not too sure, have seen the bronze in other breeds and as far as i'm aware, have had no gimpel near them.

Lloyd


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks Rudolph, The problem is that the breeder don't know about color, he say that he bought from old man because his like the colors.
Do you say is a cross bred with archangel bronze? Or the name of this color is like that

Yes I have a lot of site in my favorites and I'm read, but this is a little complicated.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

My pigeon looks like this one.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2392060510072220857TFmMDr


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes LJB07 these pigeons has bronze, can I pair with as-red and have similar colors??
Thanks.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

ljb107 said:


> They look like dilute blue cheqs with a bit of bronze. Possibly gimpel bronze but not too sure, have seen the bronze in other breeds and as far as i'm aware, have had no gimpel near them.
> 
> Lloyd


They way I usually discern archangel bronze from the normal bronzing often found in dilutes is by looking at the extent of the bronze. I've never seen bronzing on the head of an adult pigeon before that was unrelated to archangel bronze (especially in homer looking birds like these).


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

firingo said:


> My pigeon looks like this one.
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2392060510072220857TFmMDr


Your homer probably also arch bronze I would say, too much bronze in head and breast to just be caused by dilute.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

firingo said:


> Yes LJB07 these pigeons has bronze, can I pair with as-red and have similar colors??
> Thanks.


That is a rather complicated question. The short answer is yes, maybe.

Since both ash-red and dilute are sex-linked mutations it depends on which sex the parents are.

Are you mating one of these dilute bronze cocks to an ash-red hen or the other way around?


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

rudolph.est said:


> That is a rather complicated question. The short answer is yes, maybe.
> 
> Since both ash-red and dilute are sex-linked mutations it depends on which sex the parents are.
> 
> Are you mating one of these dilute bronze cocks to an ash-red hen or the other way around?


No yet, but I'm thinking to do that, Also I'm going to fly the babies I will start from one to two mile them increase to 33 miles and more, what do you think?
Thanks for your answer.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Doesn't heterozygous rec. red also show some red leakage on the head?


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Henk69 said:


> Doesn't heterozygous rec. red also show some red leakage on the head?


Het rec. red can bleed some red though on the head neck and breast, but it usually shows clearly on the shield too. In my experience this is only the case in the nest feather, vanishing with the moult. The birds in this thread look rather older than that.

That being said, I have heard people say that they have bred RR splits that kept the bronzing all their lives. I just haven't seen any such bird myself, of any breed, much less homers.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Silver check and t-pattern with lark bronze. The t-pattern may be split for stencil.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Silver check and t-pattern with lark bronze. The t-pattern may be split for stencil.



Hi.
Can I have stencil with this pigeon?? what color I need to add to have the stencil??

Thanks.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Henk69 said:


> Doesn't heterozygous rec. red also show some red leakage on the head?


Haow you know these beirds are on not heterozygous??
Thanks


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Ok like I say in the title, I have a lot of question.
Now is different pair what I believes the hens is ash red grisly and the cut is brown or diluted red.
The second pictures is the baby, as you can see will be black. But if you see the breast has white faders.

I'm corret when i say the colors of this pair?

What do you think?

Thanks.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

The hen is T pattern ash red grizzle with dirty and white flights and appears to also have a white tail also. The cock looks is an ash red bar with dirty. It looks like he may have a bronzing going on too, maybe im just seeing things. Anyways he is split for blue since cocks can carry two colors he is ash red and he carrys blue. The offspring doesnt look spread (black) but rather just blue bar. Could be a t pattern also but im led to say blue bar. He has sooty which is probably coming from the cock. Sooty makes flase checks and darkens the wing but on ash red can vary. He also has dirty and he is a grizzle it appears.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello Print Tippler.
Ok looks like I'm 50% correct, how do you know the hens is T pattern??
Thanks.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

firingo said:


> Hi.
> Can I have stencil with this pigeon?? what color I need to add to have the stencil??
> 
> Thanks.


It may be split for stencil, but it is not definite. If it is split stencil, the only way to breed stencil would be to breed to a stencil bird or another bird split for stencil.



firingo said:


> Hello Print Tippler.
> Ok looks like I'm 50% correct, how do you know the hens is T pattern??
> Thanks.


The hen is T-pattern and not check or bar, because of the amount and location of red in her wig-shield. Bar grizzles only show a bar, never darker colour on the shoulder, check grizzles never show so much solid colur.

Print Tippler is right though about the birds. Baby looks like a blue bar with dirty and/or smoky and/or sooty.

The white feathers on the belly look like grizzle to me aswell, but there is not enough white on this bird, so maybe undergrizzle. Send another picture one the youngster has moulted the first time, the colour should be easier to describe then. Grizzle would become clearer or dissapear, and pattern will probably become more definite.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Ok, will do, I love to shoot pigeons with my camera
Thanks.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

As long as you only shoot them with a camera! ;-)

The olympics used to have a skeet shooting contest with live pigeons instead of clay ones! Can you belive it! Luckily it wasn't popular for long though.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

That’s not right, what animal society say about?


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Here is another pair of the same loft, as the fisrt pair, similar color


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

Rudolph, I was navigate from your site and I found that your are emerge in one projet that you call Archangel Bronze Homers, that's amazing, can you post some pictures of your bronze pigeon??, can you tell me more about.
By the way your site is real good.
Thanks.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Thanks for the compliment.

I have been planning on taking pictures of my archangel bronze homer crosses, but have been rather busy of late. I will let you know as soon as I have been able to get some good pictures.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

You fixed the Crest anomaly in your pigeon archangel bronze homer crosses??


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

firingo said:


> You fixed the Crest anomaly in your pigeon archangel bronze homer crosses??


I am not sure what you mean by 'fix'? I just want to figure out the reason for the anomaly. I never should have gotten any crested in F1 generation, but I got 2 / 4, so there are 2 possible explanations (a dominant crest in the archangel or a recessive crest in the homer). Both would be rather unusual. 

To be honest, I kind of like the crested crosses. Maybe I'll keep the crested gene too, and start a line of crested homers here. They are fairly common in some parts of the world.


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## firingo (Jan 6, 2012)

What I am saying is if you eliminate the crested anomaly


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