# scaley pigeon, ?can't fly



## lenny (May 10, 2004)

Hi Everyone,
I live in Chicago and about 2 days ago, my husband saw a pigeon fall into the middle of a busy street from an el rafter. At first, it would not move - even with gentle nudging, so he tried to catch and remove it himself from the street - at which point it scooted off a short ways, but would not/could not? fly. As we live in an apartment building with a cat, the best we can do is contain it in a ventilated cardboard box up on some cement blocks in our basement with food and water. Question one: Am I giving it the right food, etc? Since I am unemployed, I could not afford to go out and buy much, so I put together a mix of what I had on hand: unpopped corn; cut up green peas, corn and carrots; cut up fresh spinach and romaine lettuce; dried split peas and lentils; flax seed; and whole grain hulled millet. In a separate jar lid, I smashed up a few cheerios in some warm water, too. For grit, I used the ground up shells of a hard-boiled egg. I put some water in a 1+1/2 inch to 2 inch deep syrup cup. Question 2: It's pretty dark down there. How much sunlight does this bird need? Now the big one: Question 3: What's wrong? I tried examining it, but it is too scared still, so most of what I can say about it is from observing from a distance rather than direct examination. Here's what I know. When I pick it up, it peeps like a chick: I have not heard it make any of the sounds I've heard come from adult pigeons (coos, etc.). At first, it was very listless and unaware/unconcerned about anything. Now it is at least somewhat alert. It will look at me sideways interestedly, and when I coo at it or bob my head, eventually it starts pecking, but not with much energy. I haven't seen it eat anything, but there is some poop in on the newspaper in the box - a mix of blackish balls plus a creamy whitish diarrhea like part. It's eyes and nose appear fine. It's wings, when folded, appear normal. It's feet seem ok, but sometimes it lists to one side - can't tell if that's from internal discomfort or a foot problem. The main thing I can tell you is that there is consistently some small, shiney, scaley like substance in his box - which appears to be coming from his feathers or skin. His feathers, especially around his neck area, have a reddish curled little bit at the edges. Is this a fledgling that fell from its nest? I looked at your posted pictures, but I still can't tell, although it's feet look very much like the plain, craggy feet of an adult as opposed to the pictured feet of the fledglings. I have seen it, once, sort of rear up, spread it's wings and arch its neck when afraid - after I put it down from trying to examine it, and it seemed structurally fine then. It would not let me open its mouth, so I have no idea if anything's going on there. How, exactly, do you manage that? Also, what/where is the "crop", what does a puffy or enlarged one look like, and just exactly how do you check it or wash it if it needs that? By using your finger or a q-tip to gently swab it out? Question 4: If this is a fledgling, how do I know if it is eating the stuff I put in the box? Do I assume its eating, since its pooping? Or does it need some special food hand fed to it - and if so, how do I do that? Finally, Last Question: What do I need to do to avoid contaminating my home, cat, self, husband if this bird is diseased? Do I have to worry about washing clothes, shoe-soles, surfaces of keys, flashlight, touched object? Or just wash my hands, etc. really well? (I have been spraying a very dilute bleach solution on things....) Ok, I hope I've been detailed enough without going overboard. I just don't want to overlook anything or accidentally do this bird more harm than good. If someone has advice for me, I sure could use it! - lenny


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Lenny and welcome to pigeons.com! Thank you so much for helping this pigeon!

From the behavior you describe, it sounds like a youngster that may not be quite ready to eat on its own. If that is the case, you will need to feed it with an eyedropper or syringe until the crop is full and puffy. The crop is the pouch of skin between the neck and chest/belly. You can see and feel it fill up as you are feeding liquid formula. A baby bird formula can be gotten from a pet store or human baby cereal with some added nutrition can also be used in a pinch. Formula should be warm when fed and care should be taken not to get liquid down the air hole and into the respiratory system. You can see the air hole at the back of the mouth.

You can also soak dry puppy chow in water until it is soft and puffy and feed small pieces of that to the bird.

The scaly things you are seeing are normal .. they are little pieces of the shafts that cover the growing feathers.

If you haven't clicked on the Resources link at the top of the page here at pigeons.com, please do so as there is a lot of good information for you there.

It is highly unlikely that you or your cat could catch anything from the pigeon, but it is also wise to practice good hygiene as you have been doing.

Please keep us posted, and keep up the good work!

Terry


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

Hello lenny,
I think it's urgent to point out that these birds do not see in the dark so even if this bird can eat and drink on its own (highly doubtful), it will starve to death in your basement.
Please get this bird into a lighted area and put his beak into a water cup for a second to get him used to the feel. Take the beak out and then put it back in until you see him drink. He's probably dehydrated (not enough fluid in the cellular structure). Always keep a cup of water available to him at all times.
In the beginning, put some soaked pieces of Purina Puppy Chow far back into the mouth and the bird will take it the rest of the way. If the Chow is too big, cut it in half.
Feed about twenty pieces the first time and do it only once the first day. It will probably take more than one day to get his digestive system back on line. On the second day, give him another twenty pieces in the morning. Feel the crop for any food left in the crop at night and if you don't feel too much, feed another twenty pieces.
Feed twice a day and put a cup of bird seed in (no sunflower seeds). Keep seed available at all times. You are going to have to feed this bird twice a day until he starts to eat on his own.
Come back to this thread and ask as many questions as you have to.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello Lenny,

Thank you for rescuing this pigeon, he sounds very young. Can you describe the colour of its feathers (specifically how much yellow), the length of its taile: is it shorter or longer than its wings?

I think that if you are inexperienced at feeding pigeons the puppy chow works well, otherwise look at the pictures in the Pigeon Rescue album of this link :http://community.webshots.com/user/mrenya
(pics courtesy of Stacey Mullins)
it shows how you can feed a young baby pigeon safely.
(make sure the formula is slightly warm but not hot!):

When I rescued my first baby pigeon I was convinced I would catch a disease from it, it was only later that I found out that I had absorbed the propaganda spread by pest control companies who need people to hate and fear pigeons, so I do understand your fears, but washing your hands should be enough!

Keep the pigeon in a safe place away from draughts.

Cynthia

[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited May 10, 2004).]


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## lenny (May 10, 2004)

Ok thanks, everyone, for your advice. I will soak some puppy chow (any brand is ok, yes?) in warm water until the pieces puff up, cut them in half and try feeding it in a lighted area. I will also try putting its beak in the water so it will know to try and drink. Thanks for telling me what and where its crop is, and the warning about not covering the air hole. When you say to put a cup of birdseed in for it, exactly what kind of seed, and do you mean I should leave it in the box? I take it you mean I should make it available to the bird, not feed it to the bird). What do I need to do about grit? And how/when will this bird learn to fly? Thanks again - lenny


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

Lenny,
You don't have to soak the Chow until it is so soft that it turns to mush. Leave it in tepid water for just a few minutes. I like Purina but anything of that nature would be fine.
Water and seed should be in cups. You don't want the bird's droppings to comingle with the food. The water should be changed and the cup cleaned at least twice a day. Many of the illnesses that pigeons come down with, are from dirty water.
A parakeet or cockatiel seed mix would be fine as long as you can get rid of the sunflower seeds. Young birds can obstruct from them because the shells are so difficult for the body to break down.
Assuming you are right-handed, hold the bird with your left from above so that your thumb and index fingers are able to reach the lower beak. With your right hand, pick up a piece of Chow and gently pry the upper beak upwards. Place the food in the back of the mouth and release your fingers. 
Droppings will be green at first because of excess bile that had nothing to work on in the digestive track. Over a period of a few days, the droppings will turn brown and wettish (because of the Chow). As soon as the color turns, feed pinchfulls of seed and stop the Chow permanently. The droppings will become more solid as the Chow becomes fully digested.
Feeding seed by the pinchful is a lengthy process but essential. A healthy bird needs solid, not semi-solid food. Feel the crop (the resevoir for food laying between the base of the neck and the top of the breastbone)
When it feels a little less than a golfball, the bird has had enough. The one thing to watch out for is crop stretch where too much food can permanently expand the crop. 
Grit is probably not essential until you put the bird on seed. Be careful in feeding the grit because an obstruction from that, you don't want. I'm very conservative with grit and feed babies perhaps five or six pinchfulls a week. Some people will want more given but the important thing is not to give too much at one time. You can use oyster shell grit that can be purchased at a pet shop.
There are two reasons why Chow is a good food in the beginning. It is more easily digestible for a stressed bird and it contains protein a young bird needs to build tissues. It's good to stop the Chow after a few days because the protein content could cause gout. When I have a young bird that can't eat, I'll mix seed with Chow for a while and then go over to an all seed diet.


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Good job and good reasoning skills Lenny. Lucky bird to pick you out!

Fred has really set the table for you - if the bird is not injured it simply needs hydration and a diet sufficiently rich in fat and protien such as the dog food. The only point I'd like to add is that as the youngster gets some nutrition, it will get stronger and harder to handle at feeding time. Just take a towel and gently wrap it up until just the head is poppong out. The bird will relax and you will to. (Don't bother with grit at all - youngsters need zero grit and adults only need a few grains per month except for hens. Grit, though wildly popular with humans, actually removes Vitamins A,K, and B from the digestive system and may cause life-threatening problems - grit impaction in youngsters especially.) Could you leave the light on in the basement?



> Originally posted by fred130:
> *Lenny,
> You don't have to soak the Chow until it is so soft that it turns to mush. Leave it in tepid water for just a few minutes. I like Purina but anything of that nature would be fine.
> Water and seed should be in cups. You don't want the bird's droppings to comingle with the food. The water should be changed and the cup cleaned at least twice a day. Many of the illnesses that pigeons come down with, are from dirty water.
> ...


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## lenny (May 10, 2004)

Hello again everyone, and a big thanks for all your help. Here's where things stand now. I bought Purina Puppy Chow, soaked 20 pellets in warm water until they softened and attempted to feed the pigeon. I tried to follow the advised technique, and I did wrap the bird in a dish towel. I think I got about half of the food into him/her - but s/he was not pleased with me, and there was a lot of head wagging and bobbing (which I hope was swallowing) going on. I tried to look out for the air hole, but to be honest, I could barely contain and feed the bird. However, afterwards, s/he seemed relaxed, alert and breathing alright. If I accidentally plugged his/her air hole, would I know immediately and how? (I really hope you don't say that that's what all that head wagging was about....) Also, someone mentioned that the crop should expand to something less than golfball size. Do you mean that it should inflate like a balloon and protrude? Even afterward, although it looked golfball size around, it looked fairly flat to me - leaving me wondering what exactly I had done wrong??? About dehydration and water - should I be syringing him/her some warm water, too - and if so, how much and how often? - Or is there enough absorbed water in the puppy chow at this point? I'm also confused about what I should be leaving in the box. If s/he needs to be hand fed, what good would leaving anything for it do? And if I Should I leave water and seed -is my millet, flax seed, etc. mix - sans the fresh veggies ok for now? Lastly, I am very distressed and concerned about this lighting issue. I live in a huge apartment complex - so the basement is a communal storage area, and I cannot leave him/her out where it is actually light: s/he would definitely get thrown in the trash. The same goes for the back porch area, and as there are many dogs in the building, the front hall would not work either. S/he was in a lit area with me while I fed him/her, but now s/he is back in our "storage area". I cannot bring the bird in our apartment either, because we have a very intolerant cat and none of our doors actually closes properly. I intend to go back down and feed the pigeon once more later this evening in a somewhat lit area, but at this rate, that means that the pigeon is only in a lighted area twice a day. Please tell me someone of you has a grand idea about how to solve this....Someone also asked about the yellow feathers and tail length. The yellowish, curly edged feathers are only around his/her head, neck and crop area, and the tail feathers extend about 3/4 to one inch past the wingtips. Are those any indication of how old s/he is?


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

lenny,
The bird is probably between 4-5 weeks old. After that time, the yellow down usually disappears.
You have a predicament and I don't know how much we can help. The bird needs light for a lot of reasons including being able to learn to drink on its own and eating. He needs to flap the wings to build up muscle strength. He needs the psychology of a lit area. You have a cat so your home is just about out of the question. The basement's no good and your home is no good. Would you be willing to take the bird to a rehabilitator if we can find one for you?
The opening to the trachea is in the very back of the tongue which is in the center of the mouth. It automatically closes when there is food or water in the mouth so the chances of aspirating him are pretty slim. If he aspirated on water or food, he would be dead in seconds. He would need to be given water by syringe if he's in the dark and that is not a good option at all. As you feed the bird, the crop should inflate so if you go back and feel it and it doesn't feel that way, you can give more food.
I don't honestly think you have a choice here and have to locate someone who knows pigeons and can take him in. The only thing you can do is keep the bird alive until you can get him to somebody.


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

lenny,
Call this avian vet in Chicago. He may know of a rehbilitator:
Byron de la Navarre
1545 West Devon Avenue
Chicago, IL 60625
Phone: 773-838-8200 
Fax: 773-838-8200


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

lenny,
One rehabilitator usually knows another so you may find one by contacting some of these people in Illinois:
Illinois 
Carthage ~ 217-357-3193 

Beth and Candy Munger, licensed wildlife rehabilitator 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Chicago Heights ~ 708-758-2761 

Paws Critter Crossing, Dwight Uhter 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Decatur ~ 217-963-6909 

Illinois Raptor Center, Jane Seitz (Executive Dir.), Jacques Nuzzo (Program Dir.) 
Web site: Illinois Raptor Center 
E-mail: [email protected] 

East Moline ~ 309-523-3309 

S. Harris, licensed wildlife rehabilitator 
Specialties: waterfowl, Kestrels, squirrels 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Glendale Heights ~ 708-626-7425 

Wildlife Guardians, Carol Wroblewski 
Specialties: raccoons, squirrels 
Web site: The Official Wildlife Guardians Homepage 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Hazel Crest ~ 708-335-3381 

Skyshadows Raptor Rehabilitation, Dawn DeVries 
Specialties: raptors (only); specializing in rehab with falconry techniques 
E-mail: [email protected] 

McHenry ~ 815-344-2024 

Haven Wildlife Rescue, Vicky Olson-Cook 
Specialties: neonate small mammal care, opossum, raccoon, squirrel, 
woodchuck, also rehabbed a variety of bats 
Web site: 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Moline ~ 309-762-7719 

Sue Allison, licensed wildlife rehabilitator 
Specialties: ground hogs, raccoons, pigeons 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Naperville ~ 630-416-9565 

Save Our American Raptors (SOAR), Berni and George Richter 
Specialties: raptors ONLY, captive breeding, release, and relocation 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Rockford ~ 815-395-0135 

Amy Portelli, 
Specialties: small mammals including squirrels, chipmunks, 
and opossums, but mainly raccoons 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Southern ~ 618-988-1067 

Free Again Wildlife Rehabilitation, Bev Shofstall 
E-mail: [email protected] 

St. Charles ~ 630-377-1895 

Kane Area Rehabilitation and Education (K.A.R.E.) of Wildlife, Vicki Trost 
Specialties: Most Mammals (raccoon, fox, coyote, squirrel, opossum, etc) 
Whitetail Deer, raptors. Cannot take rabbits, waterfowl, song birds 
E-mail: [email protected] 
Comments: Volunteers welcome. Must be 18 or older, reliable, responsible, 
and trustworthy 

Tuscola (Douglas Co.) ~ 217-253-2966 

Scattering Forks Rehab, Vicki Hall 
Specialties: small mammals, orphans 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Warrensburg ~ 217-672-8331 

Prairie Wildlife Rehabilitation 
E-mail: [email protected] 

Wonder Lake ~ 815-728-1439 

Faith Robison, licensed wildlife rehabilitator 
Specialties: mammals (squirrels, raccoons, fox, chipmonks, ground 
squirrels, bats, etc. Limited reptiles, turtles, salamanders (NO snakes PLEASE!) 
E-mail: [email protected]


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## lenny (May 10, 2004)

Hello again everyone:

I will try the rehab numbers in the hopes of finding someone who can take this little one. I am feeling up against a lot of limits here - I live in Chicago and do not have a car, so taking him somewhere is also going to be difficult, and there is no one in Chicago who can or will take him/her. I called a long-time volunteer from the Jarvis Bird Sanctuary, which is nearby and where I have done some volunteer work helping keep up the grounds, and that was depressingly unhelpful. The woman I spoke with advised me to put the pigeon back in a "protected spot" close to where I'd found it because parents will sometimes feed a chick on the ground. She maintained that since they are fed pigeon milk, that could not be duplicated - which made me very angry. Obviously only a pigeon can make pigeon milk, but some sufficient facsimile can be made - as she must well know if she is part of a bird sanctuary. After all, human babies are built for breast milk but can thrive on formulas, etc. In any case, putting this bird back is clearly not an option, as where I found it would be directly under the el near Cubs Stadium in the heat of the season. Cars park there, people throw bottles, and I have witnessed many drunk fans behaving obnoxiously to people and animals, etc. So that would definitely NOT be safe. My vet said I should get a kennel cage and try to keep it locked away from my cat - but I cannot afford a kennel cage, and also, there is nowhere my cat cannot get at. Between the vet and the bird sanctuary, the referrals I've got are now all closed, and most of them, I know from past experience, will not take pigeons anyway because they are not indigenous (the bird sanctuary woman was really rather disparaging of them). I am about at my wits' end. There is one place I know of that will take pigeons - or at least use to - but it is a lonnnng ways away: Fox Valley Wild Life - a 3 hour car ride from Chicago. It is possible I can get a friend to drive me, but I have only one friend with a car, and I think she is out of town. That failing, I suppose I will have to rent a car - which will be even more expensive than buying a kennel cage - but since there is nowhere to situate the latter, I guess it's the former. If any of you know any Rehabbers close to Chicago, or willing to pick up, please pass along the info. I am nearly in tears about all of this, and do not want anything bad to happen to this little one.


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

lenny,
Try the vet and try your local zoo. They are good sources of rehabilitators.
You were given incorrect information. The parents feed a milk made in their crops for only two weeks and they are feeding solid food within the second week. These birds cannot tolerate formula as a substitute and this one doesn't need it anyway.
If you put the bird back where you found it, a cat or rodent will get to him for sure so that's no answer. 
Please keep trying. You haven't run out of possiblilities yet.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Lenny .. you are doing just great .. hang in there! Fred has given you some great information and a lot of numbers to call .. so many that I may have overlooked it but also try the Univ. of Illinois .. they have a wildlife care "division" .. I remember that from trying to help someone else awhile back who was also in your area.

I'll post on my wildlife rehab list in a few minutes and see if we can find someone to help you.

Thank you so much for all you have and are doing!

Terry


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

If you find that rehabber - excellent; if you can't find that rehabber: Relax Lenny, you are almost home. That bird, if not injured, will be ready for the wild blue sometime this week. All you have to do is hang in there, pump it up with dog food and water. Leave seeds in it's box so it can learn to eat them - hand feed a few seeds if you have the time.

All the problems you mentioned are not problems except the unsafe, dark basement. Why don't you just tell the cats they have to stay out of your room for four days and keep something against the door. Then you may be able to release it by the weekend where there are pigeons - in a park not downtown.


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## lenny (May 10, 2004)

Hello Again – Part update, part info. Yesterday, I took the little pigeon to a wonderful wildlife center/hospital called Fox Valley Wildlife Center (phone 630-365-3800; www.foxvalleywildlife.org), in Elburn Woods Forest Preserve, Elburn, Illinois (Kane County). What a phenomenal place! They are only open part of the year, as I understand it (spring through fall?), but when they are open, they treat and rehabilitate all kinds of animals, including endangered species, and there is someone there from 8 am 'til 8 pm. They are the only place in Illinois that takes pigeons, and since they are a hospital facility, they have the resources to do a lot of good. It's a relief to know that little one is in such good and caring hands. The woman there told me "my bird" would be tube fed until ready for seed, and then trained to peck, eat, drink, etc. She also said s/he would share a cage with another Chicago pigeon about the same age, and they would be returned to Chicago together when ready. And she invited me to call and check on its progress! While I was there, I also got a few quick lessons on baby pigeon care, and information about a place that offers traveling weekend seminars to train people in animal rescue. If anyone is interested, it's called the International Wildlife Rehabiliators Council (phone 707-864-1761; www.iwrc-online.org) This staff person was pleased and interested to learn about you all and about this website. She wrote down the info, promising to utilize it in their resources and referrals banks. 

So all ends well, happily!

This was a remarkable experience for me - I learned a lot about care for young pigeons (just fyi, some of the people I spoke with said that soaked kitten chow or mashed, canned kitten food is better than puppy chow - something about a higher protein content. What do you all say on that topic?), and about where to go for support and compassion. 

This was difficult enough, but would have been nearly impossible to do and in all probability, would have ended badly if it were not for you all, my very kind-hearted vet, a (sadly) very few good souls I talked to who tried to help, and the staff at Fox Valley. Thanks for being the antidote to all the blatant ugliness I heard expressed (from supposed animal refuge staff peope!) towards pigeons. Just for the record, in case anyone asks, Trailside - in River Forest (708-366-6530) does not take pigeons. Many people (including Trailside) advised me to put the pigeon back. Some didn't understand where he came from, but there was, nevertheless, a strong feeling that they were spouting this line because they didn't want to have to deal with pigeons. One woman who did know the story had the ?sadism? denial? to suggest the pigeon "would have been better off dead." (How can a completely healthy baby bird be "better off " dead? It was disgusting to have to sit through that crap over and over again.) Many people (Lincoln Park Zoo, for one) plainly told me that the only places they could refer me to would certainly euthanize (thank goodness they TOLD me). 

So thanks! 

Fred, thanks for your list of rehabbers. I don't know if Beth and Candy Munger have a new email, but [email protected] bounced back as undeliverable.

Ok, that's it from me. Thank you thank you THANK YOU! I breathe a lot easier knowing you all are out there.

lenny


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you so much for the information on rehabbers, Lenny! First hand information on which ones really care for pigeons is so valuable to us!

Cynthia


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