# Adopted Squeaker from Shelter - is he ok?



## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Last night I adopted a squeaker from the shelter. He was in a cage with no food or water and emaciated. I have no idea how long they had him. He's about 2.5-3 weeks old, not sure of his history at all. He's got a great appetite and after hydrating him and warming him all night he is eating well and pooping normally today. The thing that I am wondering about is these strange head movements he is making and I have never raised a squeaker to know if this is normal. Seems like he might have suffered head trauma although he has no wounds anywhere. 

The best way I can describe this is.....while standing and sometimes sitting, his head slowly turns up and back and then he quickly corrects himself. This repeats over and over until he falls asleep. He does the same motion to the side, as well. It almost looks like he is falling asleep and then catches himself and wakes back up. 

When he is hungry he acts like any squeaker, flaps around, nibbles on me and tries to feed between my fingers, etc. He walks in circles sometimes, but it is mostly during this excitement of mealtime. 

We call it the "Stevie Wonder" if that gives you a better idea. Should I be concerned? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Laura


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

EarthaPidge said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Last night I adopted a squeaker from the shelter. He was in a cage with no food or water and emaciated. I have no idea how long they had him. He's about 2.5-3 weeks old, not sure of his history at all. He's got a great appetite and after hydrating him and warming him all night he is eating well and pooping normally today.
> 
> ...


Hi Laura,
Under normal circumstances, at three weeks of age, he should be able to hold his head upright without any problems. And walking in circles isn't normal, which brings to mind PMV. 

Here's the link to Cynthia's (cyro51) wonderful outline regarding PMV.

http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/pmv.htm

Cindy


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Cindy,

I was fearing PMV but had never seen it in a bird this young--has anyone else? I already have one with PMV that I've had for two years. I will test his blood and excretions when and if he gets stronger. 

I'll keep you all posted.

Laura


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Laura,

I hope that it isn't PMV, the fact that he is able to correct himself isn't typical of PMV. 

Please let us know what the results of the test are.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Laura,

I babysat a blind X homing pigeon (2002) for my rehabber for three weeks-while she was on vacation, he was quite an endearing bird, and he did the head roll and back and nearly touched his back with his head, and then he rolled it back, and did this over again. I also was reminded of Stevie Wonder.

This bird has been healed for some time, but this must be a residual effects from major trauma to the head,as both this birds eyes are completely gone.

I administered a little alfalfa (calcium and other minerals) and B complex and it calmed him and then he didn't do it anymore. I'm sure this is quite stressful on them, and they do need some extra stuff. 

He would start at times again, but not as much.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Unie does it all the time when there are new sounds that she's listening to. I got a hunch that she's moving her head around to keep getting a different aspect on the sound for location purposes. We all do it when we hear something in the dark and can't quite figure out where it's coming from. I sorta' took it that this bird is sighted though. Any chance it's blind, EarthaPidge?

Pidgey


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi Treesa and Pidgey,

Thank you so much for your input. I never thought he was blind until reading your responses. And then I realized that he actually "follows" my hand, fingers, and arm with his beak (very aggressively, which is why I thought he could see me) but only after I touch him. I have confirmed tonight that he is totally blind. Sigh. Poor pidge. 

Those of you with blind birds, how is their quality of life? Do they have to live in a cage or can they learn to navigate in an aviary setup? I would think other birds could be quite cruel towards them. 

Thank you,
Laura


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, you don't want to do that (put them in an aviary). Some blind female pigeons have raised chicks, I think. As to the quality of life that a blind pigeon can have, there are several on here. You just need to take them out for your chores and for walks from time to time. Have you read about Unie?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10825

Or about Cindy's Rae Charles?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12535

Or about Izze?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10728

Pidgey


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thank you for all the great links. I just read about Larry and Rae Charles. Very sweet stories.

Thanks for your support.

Best,
Laura


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Also, I am pretty certain he is deaf as well. Does not respond to my voice, or tapping on dishes at all. 

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Also, I am pretty certain he is deaf as well. Does not respond to my voice, or tapping on dishes at all.
> 
> L


Poor baby, were there any signs of trauma for this baby? Very sad story especially considering that you found him in the shelter w/out food or water.
You are this baby's guardian angel, think it was meant to be, Eartha.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I have two blind pigeons that live together in a good sized cage and manage just fine with eating and drinking on their own. I don't know that I would risk putting them in with sighted birds as they may be attacked or not be able to even remotely compete for food, water, and nesting/resting spots.

I think my blind pigeons have a good quality of life and are happy to be alive.

I have also rescued blind ducks and not too long ago pulled Tipper from my local duck pond. He is both blind and deaf. How he managed to survive there for the amount of time it took me to realize that something was wrong is a bit of a miracle. He now lives with my friend, Kiem, and has other blind ducks for companions. They also do just fine.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, let's hope that proper nutrition will bring some of it back. Do his pupils respond to the light test?

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Poor baby! But this thread has produced a lot of interesting information and I wondered if when one of you has the time you could do a sticky on blindness and blindness combined with deafness.

I know that it is different with dogs but two litter sisters that were born blind and deaf were featured in the Dog Trust's booklet. They lived the first part of their lives in a shed, but were later rehomed to a household that already had 2 dogs and 6 cats and they were so happy, there was one photo of their favourite passtime which was cavorting on the lawn together.

Cynthia


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi Pidgey,

Pupillary light reflex is negative bilaterally. Unfortunately I don't think this is something that proper nutrition can correct.

L


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Laura,

I'm so sorry to hear about this youngster. 

It really opened a whole new world of understanding for me, having this endearing blind pigeon. He is full of life and normal in every other way. I did put him in the aviary with my birds, most of my birds avoided him, thinking he was strange, but Jasper (my male helmet) took advantage of him and attacked him and tried to mate him. But he always turns outings at the pool into fun time-for himself) I did allow him in the aviary, but only with my supervision. 

He had a nice big cage I could also set in the aviary and that way he enjoyed the fresh air and sun shines, he also enjoyed showers from the hose and sunning in the cage he was familiar in. He really enjoyed the sun and noise of the other pigeons, so I made sure he had access to all normal pigeon functions-with supervision.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Treesa for sharing your experiences. The thing I am having the toughest time with is the fact that this bird is also deaf, so he cannot enjoy the sounds of anything, other birds, whistling of the wind, leaves blowing, nothing. What will his world be like? Dark and miserable? Both of his major defenses have been taken away, it just seems like too much for a baby bird. I'm just questioning this particular bird's quality of life with such major disabilities. This thread is very interesting to me, I have learned a lot reading all of your experiences with birds sharing this same disability.

Thanks, L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Would seem as though this one would need the companionship of another
bird who had same/similar disabilities or perhaps alot of holding as in the case of someone's pet.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Hi Pidgey,
> 
> Pupillary light reflex is negative bilaterally. Unfortunately I don't think this is something that proper nutrition can correct.
> 
> L


I was sorta' hoping that the deafness might. It's a foggy memory about something like that.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Interface with the outside world is important. I'm not sure that I'd suspect deafness until you've proven that by way of giving him a chance to learn to equate specific sounds with interface. For instance, if every time you go to feed him or play with him, you always say a certain thing that he can learn to recognize. That's something that becomes proof of hearing. Unie can tell when we're near and poops in readiness of going outside when you repeat the phrase: "Hey, sugar... you wanna' go... !" You can tell that Unie's listening because of the motions that you described about this bird earlier. The thing for this bird to have to do is to learn WHAT out of the various sounds are the ones that he should respond to, if we proceed from the idea that he might not be deaf. Unie didn't start doing those motions right away, you know.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Would seem as though this one would need the companionship of another
> bird who had same/similar disabilities or perhaps alot of holding as in the case of someone's pet.
> 
> fp



Hi fp,

Larry (the white blind pigeon) would attack and bite at anything and everything that touched him (even his cage) as a natural defense response, after I pet him for a long time, I gained his trust and he would stop beating up my fingers and start pruning my fingers, this happened on every occassion, so I would be hesitant to put two blind birds together-or other type handicapped bird, depends on wether they can recognize a friend or mate by smell -after a time.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I guess a question for Cindy would be whether Rae Charles ever had a chance to get together with any other of her birds. I expect Pij would have probably made a really good mate to her.

Pidgey


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Update. I discovered that this little pidge *can* hear me. She's eating well and interactive when I speak to her and handle her. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best. When she is eating on her own, I am going to introduce her to my grounded bird and see if they might become a pair. I can then rig up an enclosure inside the aviary, so she can live amongst the others but also be protected from them when i am not able to supervise. That is several weeks/months down the road.

Thanks again for your help. I'm in love with this little bird. There is just something so sweet and so simple about her. She fell asleep in my cupped hands last night after I fed her! Will post a pic soon.

L


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

I guess saying "she's eating well" really translates to: "I'm feeding her well." Sorry for the confusion. 

L


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Eartha .. sounds like a most lovely little pidge and also that it has already stolen your heart. All is well and as it should be  

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Wheeew! 

I was worried.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks for the update, sounds like a great idea to have an enclosure within
the enclosure for this pij, also sounds like this baby really loves being held
and trusts you very much, Eartha.

fp

Treesa, I understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense that
you'd want to make sure that a relationship is working especially in a situation like this.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi EarthaPidge,

I'm SO glad the youngster can hear, fantastic news! The enclosure within the enclosure will work. It does two things: protect them from any bird taking advantage of them, or their surroundings-but it enables them to be right in the fold, or flock...so to speak. They will hear every noise and every conversation between every pigeon, and feel like they belong. 




Treesa, I understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense that
you'd want to make sure that a relationship is working especially in a situation like this.[/QUOTE]


Hi fp,

That is one relationship that would require 24/7 observation for a time being, I really learned alot in three weeks about keeping a blind pigeon, and would do it all again. Larry really enjoyed grass and soft papertowels under his feet, he became a different pigeon, as he was used to sitting on cold hard metal, so his poop will go thru into the catch all, as that was easiest and quickest means for Doreen to care for him, since she is overwhelmed with needy birds.
I overindulged and spoiled him because of his needs, and it teared me up to see him actually prefer standing on his towel instead of the hard steel, he couldn't see where he was, but he sure felt it under his feet. Who minds changing poop towels three times a day for such an endearing and deserving pigeon....and I will do it again.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trees Gray;200588..........
Hi fp said:


> That's just so heartwarming and very, very touching, Treesa.
> 
> fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> *I guess a question for Cindy would be whether Rae Charles ever had a chance to get together with any other of her birds.*
> 
> *I expect Pij would have probably made a really good mate to her.*
> 
> Pidgey


Not literally, Pidgey, however, the way her 'home' is set up in the aviary, her aviary mates can, & do, come by & visit with her often. 
And of course, I hold, & love her lots as does Shi when she visits & Chuck, when he's home. 

Pij did adore her.  



EarthaPidge said:


> Update.
> * *I discovered that this little pidge *can* hear me.*
> 
> She's eating well and interactive when I speak to her and handle her. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best.
> ...


* That's wonderful news Laura.  

** Below is a picture of Rae Charles' home which is within the aviary.
It's resting on two perches & as well as being attached to the aviary itself.

She has the best of two worlds. She's secure, & at the same time has the pleasure of visiting with her feathered friends. 

*** That's exactly how Rae Charles is.  

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

This is a great thread. While we have never (knock on wood) had a blind pigeon, I would think they need a great deal of caressing, touching and being talked to. I also think music playing softly around them would be soothing.

Laura, I am really happy to read that she can hear. That can help so much. I hope you have been able to read about Izze (member Monica's blind pigeon) and see her video cam. I have her site bookmarked and look at her a few times a day. You know she is handicapped but she also looks very content.

http://appliedfantasy.net/izze_cam/izze.html


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'm so glad to hear that (that the others now visit Rae Charles)! I sometimes wish that Unie had a special friend but she's not particularly sociable although she gets plenty of company every time that there's a squeaker in the incubator near her.

Hmm... maybe that's why she's so unsociable... I overheard Lin say something to Squeaky Clean this morning: "how can you SQUEAK and EAT at the same time!?!"

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I thought it would be fun to share the interactions of Malio & Rae Charles only a couple days after Pij passed away.

Prior to Pij's passing, he was the only one allowed to be next to Rae Charles' home, & the others knew that. Rae Charles would sit right next to the door while Pij told her all the goings on in the aviary.
Upon Pij's passing, Rae Charles became withdrawn & wouldn't come near the door.

I believe Malio sensed this & began flying over to Rae Charles in an attempt to visit. The first few times, Rae Charles would have no part of it. She would stay on the far side of her home with her head turned away.
Malio wasn't about to give up. After several days of his determination, Rae Charles finally broke out of her depression & came over to Malio. 

They all visit with her now & she loves it. 

Cindy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Cindy,

I'm curious, when you allow them to interact with Rae Charles, without a cage, how does it go? Do any of them take advantage of her, and how does she deal with being among the others? I'm sure you didn't leave them alone either.

I was relucatant to allow my birds out around Larry, so I did it only when I could observe and stop any of them should they take advantage of him.
He sure enjoyed being in their aviary, they thought he was strange and wouldn't go near, except Jasper. He did attack Jasper and/or anything that touched him, but then again he is an aggressive male..


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, that is so sweet.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

What kind of bird is Malio? Very pretty! Here is a pic of "Twirly Shirley." She is sort of puffed up so looks extra fat and cute. She's only 170g.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

She is looking very cute (just like a pigeon balloon ready for a big parade)!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a darling little pigeon! Twirly Shirley is quite the cutie! Malio is an Old Dutch Capuchine: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Capuchine/capuchine.html

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> Cindy,
> 
> I'm curious, when you allow them to interact with Rae Charles, without a cage, how does it go? Do any of them take advantage of her, and how does she deal with being among the others? I'm sure you didn't leave them alone either.
> 
> ...


Hi Treesa,
Rae Charles doesn't go into the common area of the aviary. The other birds come to her & visit 'between the bars'.
Quite some time ago, I took her out to see how she would react outside of her 'comfort zone'. Poor thing became frantic. 
Chuck & I thought she might like a little basket for her 'fake' eggs. WRONG! She has become accustome to her very plain home. She knows where her perch is & with that she knows where her food is. She gets completely disoriented if she finds something 'new' in her home. As a human who is blind, would, I suppose. 

She gets lots of human attention, but still, doesn't like to be held for long periods. She seems to really love her home & as long as there's activity around her she's a happy pijjie.  

Cindy


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

well i can tell you i had a cchicken like that. My granfather says he thought it might have developed a "kink" in its neck while in the egg. People get that problem too... but i dont think its from being in an egg  It shold grow up fine and eat fine. It might have trouble flying like that but i would keep it ina small flock with food close to or on the ground


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

EarthaPidge said:


> *What kind of bird is Malio? Very pretty!*
> 
> *Here is a pic of "Twirly Shirley."* She is sort of puffed up so looks extra fat and cute. She's only 170g.


Oh my goodness! 'Twirly Shirley' is too cute.  

As Terry mentioned, Malio is an Old Dutch Capuchine. 
He's the second 'white' one we've adopted that was found wandering the streets.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Cindy, that is so sweet.


Thanks Maggie. 
They all seem to love Rae Charles. Sometimes I wonder if they sense she has a bit of a handicap.
There's usually always one or two visiting with her during the day.  

Last week sometime, I spotted Pij'ette trying to figure a way to 'sneak' some of Rae Charles' seeds. Like she doesn't have enough of her own. 
Rae Charles heard her & gave a couple good 'pecks' in her direction. Pij'ette decided she had better go eat out of her own dish.  

They are *always* up to something. 

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

AZWhitefeather said:


> They are *always* up to something.
> 
> Cindy



They are so funny, aren't they?
I can watch them for hours and never get bored.

Reti


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi everyone,
Twirly is doing ok, she has gained about 75 grams or so this past week. I have not been successful in teaching her to eat or drink on her own. I suspect she is about 4.5 weeks. Almost lifts off when flapping her wings at this point. She is still squeaking a lot and trying to eat between my fingers, etc, but no interest in the bowl or regular food. I have followed all of the advice from everyone here, but no luck yet. Any other tips? 

Many thanks!

Laura


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Patience, Laura! This might take enough weeks to qualify as months.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

After all, it's hard enough to get a sighted squeaker to eat solid food that young...

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pidgey, you said that right.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

ok thanks everyone! I will be patient. At what age have your sighted squeakers started to eat? 

L


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

EarthaPidge said:


> ok thanks everyone! I will be patient. At what age have your sighted squeakers started to eat?
> 
> L


At four-five weeks they start pecking at the smaller seeds.
I had two exceptions that started at three weeks, they hated so much me touching them they figured they better start eating on their own.
Then I had Angel who loved me so much she wouldn't eat on her own until she was three months old.
Generally at four weeks they start trying eating on their own.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'll never forget a bird that a member had on NYCPRC--it managed to keep up doing the most pitiful pecking and dropping so that member kept tube-feeding for months. That member finally placed "Squabovitch" (I think that's right) in the hands of a rehabber upstate (out of the city, anyhow) where he finally learned to eat on his own. Probably had to--either that or starve to death. It's amazing how fast they can learn when they actually have to. So, it was a lesson in Tough Love. 

There's no need to play that game with this one yet, though.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I just give them a bowl of seeds and water when they start pecking on their
own but continued a.m./p.m. feedings until I see a regular interest and
feel them regularly in the crop. Then I taper off on the amount, and 
eventually drop one of the feedings. They do catch on and this is of
course a bit different because of the disability and the need to be
certain they can orient themselves.

fp


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

thanks for all of your recent input. How much Kaytee are you feeding babies of this age? I'm feeding Kaytee Exact. I realize that due to Twirly's problem, I may end up hand feeding longer than usual. Thanks.

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I hate pat answers on this because some just seem to be
able to be fed more and use it and others seem to need/process less,
but in a flexible range, I will tube anywhere from 15 to twenty
cc's and sometimes 23cc's in a session. The upper end
is w/less frequency. It's size and health dependant
figuring 5-20% of their bodyweight per day. You can use
the feel of their crop as an indicator also, it does not
want to be taught.

fp


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Ok, I'm feeding this baby (formula is pretty thick) about 24cc 3-4 times a day. I kept thinking it was too much, but her poops are perfect, her crop is completely empty before each feeding, and not overly full after each feeding, and she is constantly squeaking until I feed her. She has gained weight nicely, definitely not too fat, on the thin side (keel still prominent). I have found that the consistency of the Kaytee can vary enough that it is difficult to calculate how many calories are in each feeding. 

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, but if you are mixing and serving it up w/a thick consistancy, and all is 
emptying between feedings then that's the important thing for now. Overfeeding is concern because of crop stasis and I also read that overfeeding
can damage the interior lining w/scar tissue. There would be indicators that
the bird was getting too much though, and this isn't what you're describing.
Some of the ferals I get are pretty small, so this sounds correct to me.
Are you weighing the bird pretty regularly?

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> ok thanks everyone! I will be patient. At what age have your sighted squeakers started to eat?
> 
> L



If one work with them, and if the Peeper or Squeaker will 'nuzzle' to be fed, they can be eating and pecking Seeds by themselves, at around 14 days or less.


I have done this many many times, even though I will still 'Baby-Feed' in a diminishing progression, till they are bored with it and leave it off on their own volition, at 45 days or so.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Hi everyone,
> Twirly is doing ok, she has gained about 75 grams or so this past week. I have not been successful in teaching her to eat or drink on her own. I suspect she is about 4.5 weeks. Almost lifts off when flapping her wings at this point. She is still squeaking a lot and trying to eat between my fingers, etc, but no interest in the bowl or regular food. I have followed all of the advice from everyone here, but no luck yet. Any other tips?
> 
> Many thanks!
> ...




Hi Laura, 


Sorry I am late to your thread.


While Blind, if she is still 'nuzzleing' to be fed, you can guide her Beak into a shot-glass full of small whole Seeds, plain dry ones, and she will 'gobble' them as 'if' she is being fed, so long as you keep your finger tips on her Beak. Drinking should go similarly.

After a few rounds of this, for her to learn, you can just guide her Beak and likely let go, and she will drink, or, gobble her Seeds and or possibly start pecking at them also, even if she can not see them.

Worth a try anyway...


I had made some mentions along these lines in more detail here recently -


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20450


Likely holding the Shot Glass ( or narrow small Bowl ) up for her to be doing these guiged 'gobbleings' will allow her some progression to pecking at them when held up similarly, and if she is cued to know they are 'there'...and from that, to just keeping them in the same place all the time so she knows where to find them.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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