# Tragedy



## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

I am new, greatful to this sight and have a question. Male wild pigeon has died in a tragic, sad accident. Will his surviving mate be able to raise their young by herself? It has been several days since unfortunate accident and she is still visiting their nearby nest; after each feeding and a lot of drinking at my balcony. Please, does anyone know her possible fate and the fate of her young? Thank you. Ante


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Do you know how old the babies are?

I know that females have finished raising the young themselves in similar circumstances, but she will need a lot of support in the way of food and water so that she has enough to feed them and does not have to use time and energy looking for food.

Cynthia


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ante and welcome to the group

This is a hard question to answer really because all birds are different. It depends on the maternal instinct in the female now and how she will react to losing her mate.

She *May* become tired after "X" number of day caring for her young by herself and abandon the nest. Also, she may hunker down and stay with her nest and young. It is hard for a single pigeon parent to raise 2 young on their own but it IS possible and can be done. You could help by providing seed for her.

Is this a wild pair of birds that you watch on a balcony or somewhere? If so, keep an eye out on the mother and what's she's doing. If she does abandon her nest and young, then you may have to intervene.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

My first feral pigeon, who nested on my balcony several years ago, disappeared one day and almost certainly met a sad end. At the time theye had two youngsters, about 2 weeks old. His mate did raise the two by herself - I ensured she always had food & water at hand - and once they had fledged, all three vacated the balcony.

John


----------



## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank you Cynthia and Brad for a quick and helpful reply.
These are two of the several wild pigeons which I have been selectively feeding inside my apartment at the door to my balcony. Their nest is inside the window of an old abandoned brick building across and one quarter of a block away from the back of my building. There are black metal shutters at the window. My feathery friends glide inside through the crack at the bottom. I have no way of seeng or getting inside this dark place. I only feed several pigeons (the ones that seem to need the most of help: injured, old, weak) inside my apartment. Feeding outside on the balcony, in the 
past, invited too many birds and could have resulted into interference from pigeon hating neighbors.
Anyway, it has been nine days since the male pigeon died and all the signes are good. I have been intuitively doing just what you have both suggested. 
She (pigeon) and myself have been working full time.
After each feeding and drinking (there are several during these short and cold days), she flies to the mysterious window. Last few days using my binocular I have noticed beaks peeking through the crack and just couple hours ago I think two youngsters have come out at the fire exit and she is feeding them. There is a lot commotion going there. It has been profound experience.
I hope we can get them enough grain. 

Ante


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi again, Ante, 

If there is ANY way you can get to this crack in between shutters...somehow to place a dish of seed there or nearby...again, this would be a contributing factor to this lone female's success.

If you cannot, then there is no blame put on you by any means. Pigeons will often construct their nests where humans or others can't get to these.

At this time, then all you can do it watch and wait for the outcome. Hopefully, she (the lone hen) will continue and be able to feed her young by herself. And again...all you can do is watch and report. Nature does have a way of taking care of it's own and as much as we want to help, there are many times we are left to just look into the display window.

Good luck and keep us posted if you can


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to pigeons.com

Thank you for your supportive care to the mother pigeon and her babies, it is just what she needs to get these youngsters raised. It sounds like they may be about three weeks old if they are starting to move around.

Keep up the wonderful help and close eye you are giving her, it will really increase the odds that she will raise them and not abandon them.


----------



## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank you John. Sorry I missed your reply before my first reply. 
I gess you went through very similar experiance I am going through right now.

Ante


----------



## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Hi Ante,

I'm sorry about the daddy pigeon. 

I really appreciate people like you who look out for our fellow creatures...and yes, we certainly do get the payback of a beautiful experience in doing so.


----------



## Guest (Dec 9, 2005)

As I am mourning the death of my friend I am greatful for all of your help and support. His tragic death has led me to this forum. I am amazed by the strength of his mate. For the last 9 days she has been making diligently over and over trips to my balcony, waiting for me to open the door, eating, drinking and flying right back to her young to give them the food. Today I saw from the distance , I am certain now, her two offsprings. They came outside for the first time. They were walking and flying a little while she was feeding them as they do with their beaks one after the other. One hour later she did it again. I am hoping they will be able to take care of themselves soon? As far as I could see they are full grown. I wish I could go there and give them some seed, as Brad has suggested, but it is not in my power. One day at a time. I wil see what happens tomorrow.

Ante


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Ante, thank you for the awesome support you are providing for this dedicated hen and her babies. If things go well, you may soon have three waiting at the door for dinner!


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Ante,*

sounds like you are a great 'surrogate' parent! You help mom, she feeds babies and they SURVIVE! WELL DONE!!!


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Anti,


I have a single parent male Pigeon raising his two 16 day old Babys presently, and while he is a 'ground bird' oweing to a bad Wing, his mate flew fine and in fact flew off, likely having got lost for not having been out of doors in some many weeks, and never out of doord here before, whilst she recovered from her own Wing injury. ( Wild Ferals both, here to recover from injuries...) 

I let her out for some excercise while the Babys were only some several days old..and...never saw her again.

Poppa is doing a great job.

So are you!

So yes, keep momma well supplied in good Seeds, and later if you like, I/we can even make some suggestions for making those Seeds more nutritious for her and hers.

If you are seeing the Squeakers emerge and so on to be fed, I will guess they are about three weeks old or so. At this age, and for some time now, each of those 'Babys' will likely eat three or four times what momma herself would need just for herself...they are ravenous, not only to burn calories to stay warm, but to grow all those Feathers and so on. And that phase is now about to start tapering off, so, the heaviest work for Momma, is around now anyway.

Likely, there remains two or three weeks before these Babys will try to fly with Momma to graze, and when they do, she will likely wish to lead them to your feeding area...so...as time passes, beginning 'soon' even, keep your eyes peeled in case they wish to follow her, but fall short and can not get the elevation needed to either join her at your situation, or, to return to their Nest place. This for them will be the dangerous time...ending up on the ground, somewhere in-between.

If momma has stuck it out this far, I expect she will stick it out all-the-way, so long as she can get enough food, often enough each day, to keep the Babys, who likely outweigh her presently, but will slim down as they reach further into their adolescence, to keep them stuffed as all good momma and poppa Pigeons like to do for their youngsters.

She and her Babys are very fortunate you are interested in their well being...!

So keep up the good work! 

And soon, start keeping an eye peeled in case the youngsters seek to join her ...and or if one or both of them should fall short in their initial flying attempt, and need to be grabbed up off the ground somewhere between there and your situation,, to be protected from peril.

So, if you like, we can recomend suppliments which can be added to the Seeds, as well as what kinds of Seeds might best enhance the nutrition of the meals momma has to bring them in her Crop...

Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ante, this is a remarkable story. Without your help, this mother would not be able to care for her babies. Bless you for what you are doing.

Phil made a good point to watch out in case the babies decide to "bail out" a little too early. Most of the time, if they have full feathers and fall, they can flap enough to make it down with little or no damage but then they are left defenceless against predators. That could happen any time now.

Maggie


----------



## Guest (Dec 9, 2005)

Here is new day. Couple more replys from you good people. As I am writing this I am looking outside for a chance to let the pegeons which I have been feeding ( female with dislocated hip, young very weak male who likes to sit in a ball of water(?) and yes, most recently our widowed mother. As I have mentioned earlier I have stopped feeding, at least at this balcony, all the hundreds pigeons that want to eat and fight for food here. I deeply care for all the animals but somtimes one has to say no for their and your own safty. So I just let the sick weak come inside the house and keep the rest out. This has not been easy. I am learning as I go along. I am learning once I feed a healthy bird it is very difficult to keep her/him away and he or she will chase the weak away from food so I try never to feed strong aggressive ones (planty of fresh water for all, though). I figure they can take care for themselves. I don't know, I could be wrong in this selecting businiss. 
Back to our single mother saga . I gess I underestimated the age of her two youngsters. Now I beleave they are older then we all thought. All this is becoming gradualy clear with all you knowlegable and kind people filling me in, in the last two days, and my binoculars. After Father's death, ten days ago, she kept taking food from my house to her room inside the abandoned building through the window crack. Inside her room babies have, I gess, been walking and hopping for awhile. Couple days ago I saw their beaks poking out the crack, checkin out the real warld. Yesterday 
they made the move and came out flying on to the fire exit still geting the food from their mother. God, this morning, unless they are some other pigeon's babies, you were wright, she brought them with her. First I saw one. He came squeaking through the open door inside my apartment with his mother, as the snow was coming down outside. He ate some grain and agressivly tried to get some from his mother's beak. He looks like his mother, exactly. Chill run through my spine not seeing the other baby. 
Minutes later I saw all three of them outside high on the top of a cabinet by large and old cat carrying cage (a nest where another two pigeons were born, grew and flew away last year-with both parents, however). I gess they are going to stay on my balcony for now. No, she just ate, did her drinking and flew back to the fire exit across to the original nest ,where the babies got back there already flopping their wings waiting for food. At least I know now they can fly back and forth. How long will she have to still feed them? Please, you pigeon experts? I am starting to worry. I am neglecting my other two feral pigeons both needing help and 12 wild mice which I have rescued from the glue and metal box-type traps by ECO (CRUEL) LABS at my work. I am writing too much. Should get back taking care of these 
creatures. I do need the information about the food for the mother. She needs help. She is starting to like and kiss a male pigeon. I am worried. He is not the father and has been chasing the babies away. She is been wanting to eat all the time. I don't want to start feeding him also. So I have to wait for him to leave before I can feed her.
Well, it is now 1:45 PM New York time. SHE, THE INCREDIBLE MOTHER PIGEON is still by her two beatifull fast growing offsprings busy as ever.

Ante


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Anti, 


All sounds well then...!

The 'Babys' were farther along then we thought!


Momma will continue to feed them as per some order of judgement on her part, while she observes them suceeding in their own pecking and grazeing/foragings with her.

If her now prospective mate is not hospitable to the Youngsters, it may not mean that she will turn her back to them. Nor, that their in-effect 'weaning' will have come about any much sooner than it would have otherwise.

If the two young Birds were effectively pecking your offerings of Seeds...then, they are over the hump on that issue, and if momma stopped feeding them now, they would be fine with their neophyte self feeding skills from here on...especially if they were pecking 'seriously' already.

I am surprised that Pigeons will continue to make young, or to apear interested to continue TO do so, in Winter in New York!

Here, where the climate is so much milder this Season, the ferals tend to cease or to taper off a great deal in their Baby-Making.

Parents who feel the urge to make more Babys, will start to do so (meaning, to do mateing things, and then some almost three weeks later, lay the two successive Eggs and incubate them, where some 18 days later - I think it is? - the Babys pip and emerge and are born then...so, it is about a five week time between billing-kissing-nest making or nest improvements, and neonate 'peepers'...) once their last brood are sometimes only a couple weeks old...say, roughly half the age of these two you describe following momma to your balcony and in from there.


What I would consider for them chow-wise, is to get a good brand of so called 'Pigeon Mix' which might just come in a hundred pound sack, or maybe smaller...

This will have lots of dried Peas and Milo and maybe Flint Corn ( whole, not cracked) and, depending on the particular kind of Pigeon mix it is, the Seed variety and proportion will vary, so, who ever in your area stocks Pigeon supplies and Feeds, ask them which one would be best this time of year for both adolescents, adults, and breeding-rearing pairs.

White Safflower Seeds may be added if they are not in the mix already, ditto Flax Seeds, Rape Seeds, as may small, raw, human-grade Peanuts.

Now, if it was me, I would also, for your special Birds...I would take say a gallon container and fill it 3/4 full of the Seed mix. Add a slug ( and experience will tell you soon how much that is, but say three tablespoons full is a good place to start) of fresh Olive Oil. Stirr this in so that all the Seeds attain a light 'shine' or glisten from it. You do not want them to be 'wet' or to have too much, just 'some'. If you make them too wet, start another container and put half of those in it and add more Seeds to both till you bet the right 'sheen'. If kept cold, no hard if this sits a week or two if closed with a lid to keep the air out.

This allows you then to add powdered things and stirr them in thoroughly, which will stick to the Seeds.

Such as Brewer's Yeast ( say also three heaping tablespoons full ) Powdered Garlic, ( ditto) powdered Sea Weed or Purple Dulce ( five or six) , and or hand shred or pulverize the matted fine kind of Sea Weed that you get in Oriental Markets and add that whether it 'sticks' or not when shredded is no matter, they will peck and eat the small bite-sized shreds...

...a couple heaping tablespoons of 'pro-biotics' ( which like the powdered Brewer's Yeast and Purple Dulce powder, can be had of most any Health Food Stores, and the ones who sell 'bulk' that you put into a baggie, might be the best bet for these) but the pro-biotics might be kind of expensive...or say, a couple heaping Tablesoons full from a 12 dollar bottle of the powder, is going to be about one eight of that bottle or so, maybe one sixth...so...maybe just 'one' Tablespoon full and not so 'heaping'...or just do that one, now and then or reserve it for certain Birds who maybe have their own Seed batches or something.

I used to like a product called 'Vitamix' I think, which was a reasonably priced bulk Avian Vitamine powder...this too is nice to add....or something like it anyway.

Get also a big bag of the crushed Oyster Shell Grit and provide little piles of saucers of that next to the Seeds. Got mine Mail Order and it was not expensive. You can likely get yours at some local Pigeon Supply place. It will go a long way too, if you get say a 20 pound Bag like I did. I am generally taking care of some eight or ten Birds, sometimes more, sometimes less. Tjhat Bag will last me a year probably.

Get them fresh green or multi-colored Kales too if you can...Endives or other 'bitter' Greens are worth trying also...for them to eat as-is, by pecking the crinkled tough leaves of it. 

Cod Liver Oil may also be used...in lieu of the Olive Oil, and like the Sea Weed and some of the Greens, it supplies them Vitamine A and some other trace elements valuable to their health.

I am cold right now and can't think...!

More later if my brain thaws...

Lol...

Anyway, wonderful that you are so kind an Aunt to them!

Best wishes..!

 

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2005)

Thank you Phil for the food info. I have been feeding Kayatee Supreme fortified daily blend for colombes-dove-palomas I add to this some split desi chick peas , striped sunflower seeds for wild birds and some little dry
cat food, also some rat and mouse food. This is probably all wrong so I have to do some research on line and try to prepare food you suggested.

I am also surprised this pigeons have babies in this cold weather. I don't
know how they survive.

One of the babies I have seen pecking seeds with his mother and spendin some time at my balcony today. The other stayed away however. 
He seems to be more afraid. As far as prospective new mother's mate I might have to start feeding him also because he waits around and prevents me from opening the door for the mother and the babies. I am afraid if I feed him once he will hang around even more and bully, chase away couple disable pigeons I have been feeding. So that is my dilema.

As far as caring for these pigeons and animals in general I care so much sametimes I am scared something is wrong with me. Maybe it is because at the small Mediterenian farm as a child, the only love I got was from our chicken, goat, sheep and donkey so this is my back payment to 
"brutes".

Ante


----------



## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

ntspcssm said:


> .
> 
> As far as caring for these pigeons and animals in general I care so much sametimes I am scared something is wrong with me. Maybe it is because at the small Mediterenian farm as a child, the only love I got was from our chicken, goat, sheep and donkey so this is my back payment to
> "brutes".Ante



Ante,

Nope, there's nothing wrong with you.

I'm sorry to hear that the only love you got was from your animals. Every child deserves to be loved and cherished. Unfortunately, unconditional love is often in short supply from humans, but we can always count on receiving from our animals. Despite your deprived upbringing, it's wonderful to know that you've turned out to be a compassionate and caring person...you are to be admired.

Linda


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ante,

Thank you for your continued care and compassion of mama and the babies and the birds with health issues. 

I am so glad the babies are flying solo and able to keep up with mom.

You are a very special person and have all the right instinctive gifts that enable you to help our wildlife. Thank you for caring and being one of those people I am proud to know, here on Pigeon Talk.


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2005)

Thank you Cynthia, Brad, John, Treesa, Leslie, Terri B, Phil, Maggie and Linda for your kind words, caring support and valuable information!

When I found this forum by looking for help and posted my qustion I did not beleive that people like you existed out there and I must be from 
Mars for caring for "vermin" since humans only knew how to poison, trap, 
glue and other ways kill and exterminate these inocent and beautiful creatures; no other possible consideration such as contraception or so. You would think this would not be any more difficult then sending a machine to the Mars.

Now a question for yuo.

I have posted yesterday that a very young pigeon was plucking seed along the MOTHER pigeon and she was giving him some milk. (At the time I bealived he was one of her babies.) Moreover, today I have noticed he is chasing her agressivly for food. MOTHER is running away from squeaking hungrey youngster but gives in and gives him some milk. 
NOW, follow this. MOTHER flies to her original nest sight, fire exit and window brick arch, and there are waiting for her two other young pigeons. Wright away, she engages in the feeding ritual with these two youngsters; this time very willing. I witnessed this entire event twice so I am shure I was not hallucinating.

Tell me if I am wrong.
My theory is: The youngster at my balcony is an orphan or an abandon
baby who is begining to eat by himself but still needs mommy while our 
MOTHER's real two babies are still hanging around their original nest waiting for their mother to come to feed them, which she wonderfully still does. One would think, I am making this up.

So my question is:
Will feral female pigeon, while raising her young, feed an orphan pigeon of a similar age, that of her own ooffsprings? 

If this is true, and I am not loosing my mind, considering MOTHER is 
a single mother, she is in my eyes truly incredible.
So, here I am giving her name MOTHER INCREDIBLE and she is my friend for life. 
________________________________________________________________

Ante


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Ante,

What you may be seeing is an opportunist youngster who is able to feed, but is still a 'squeaker' and will beg from an adult. Pigeons do vary so much - this mother pigeon is one who must give in to a demanding young one, some will not. Pigeons generally, however, will raise orphans usually - but not always - if they don't already have a brood. 

One of our pigeon friends on another group has a wonderful male pigeon ("Hercules") who even did most of the work in raising a baby chicken, aside from feeding it of course, and will try to look after a baby bird of any species.

In one of our UK newspapers there was an article from I forget where in which a pigeons was brooding some baby rabbits 

John


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ante, that poor little mother. It isn't enouogh she's having to raise her own babies but now has to feed another. She is remarkable. You know, she could be a he since the dads usually feed the babies after they get some size.

Looking forward to your next installment.  

Maggie


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2005)

John, isn't that somthing and how do you explain that? Are not animals
amazing?

I have been worrying that MOTHER INCREDIBLE would abandon her offsprings and here she is not only sticking by them but also helping 
opportunist young pigeon who she might have never seen before.

But where is his own mother and father. He wobbled alone from nowhere couple days ago and has been sleeping on my balcony in an old cat cage ever since. In the morning he chases MOTHER INCREDIBLE for some free milk. Sorry, I find all this fascinating.

Maggie, I also red somewhere that male pigeons do most of feeding as their young grow older. This made me worry because in this situation male pigeon is not around. I have been assuming that MOTHER INCREDIBLE is 
female pigeon, since her dead mate was mach bigger then her and used to chase away other pigeons while she was eating. Also, the pigeon who she has bee courting lately seems to be male pigeon.

I just hope two single parent youngsters make it and in the meantime I have to learn to tell female from male pigeon.

If I have been mistaken and she is he, I think I should still call him 
MOTHER INCREDIBLE.

Ante


----------

