# Any advice for Shy and Scared Birds?



## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

I know that many of you are experienced pigeon fanciers and some may have come across angry birds, some tame and some shy...

*My birds are really scared of me and my family members and rush to the corner of the cage as i approach them.... 
*
Any advice, technique would be greatly appreciated...
*Should i just give it some time*, say 2 weeks???

Thanks again..


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

What I did with my shy Russian Tumbler is I talked to him everyday and after a while I put my hand over by him, then little by little I would either pick him up or just pet him. It took a quite while, but now he lets me pet him, but still doesn't want to be picked up. There are many others here that can tell you what they did, but this is what I did with mine.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Time and patience and slow movements. 

Never make sudden movements or grab at a bird.

Talk low and soothingly.

Stay around them a lot - letting them get used to you.

Offer seed to them from your hand - giving them special treats like safflour and sunflower seed, raw, shelled peanuts (all unsalted please)

We rescued a little demon named Jimmy sometime in the fall. Never have we had one as wild and since we would have to keep him inside over the winter, I really didn't know how we'd manage. However, about 2 weeks of working with him, he is probably the best little guy we've ever had - a perfect joy to be around.


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

What? Wilder then Stratton!?
Sheesh, that's something.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You should be hand feed them their meals, as well as snacks. They will learn to look forward to your visits and eat right out of your hand and they will be tame, once they trust you.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Alvin, yes, wilder than Stratton ever thought to be but he is a little honey now.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*hand feeding/frustration*

Hi there...
Sorry to "butt in" on this thread, but I am having a similar issue.
I've had Munchkin a few months now. He is fairly tame, but not what I would call "friendly." He still eyes me with suspicion when I approach his cage, and often lunges out to bite me (with a grunting/barking sound) when I reach in to take him out. And once he's free in the room, he will not perch on me for more than a split second before he's off running around. He can also be quite difficult to catch - not in a mischievious way, but in a fearful way. 

I've tried to feed him treats and meals out of my hand, but he will not accept them. Several times I even sat motionless for 20 minutes or more, with a handful of his dinner outstretched toward him. But all he did was sit still and eye me suspiciously. When I finally gave up and put the food in his bowl, he jumped right down to gobble it up.

Maybe because he is older (~3 years) and just relocated, he is taking longer to be "friends" than my doves did? Any advice would be appreciated. I love my pigeon and it would be so nice if he loved me back a little...(or maybe I am expecting too much from an older bird...as I said, he is very docile and sweet, just seems to be scared of me...)

- a side note - 
If I put him in his "flight suit" he will sit on my shoulder or my head and even seems to enjoy taking "walks" around the house. His expression/body language changes from suspicious to relaxed and curious. But getting the suit on him is a different story...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Actually, Hamza and Amoonswirl, personally, I don't think there is a "simple" answer. Animals have their own personalities and pigeons are no exception.

Squeaks was a pistol until after his wing amputation. He finally decided I was his mate. Does that mean all lived happily ever after? Not by a long shot! Squeaks is VERY opinionated and optimizes "bird with attitude!" When he's in "mate" mode, he's as loving as can be...until "daddy" mode, when he could sit 24/7 on his egg! However, no matter the mode, if he doesn't want to be put back "home," I will be ATTACKED and YELLED at!

Sometimes a male will become attached to a human female and vice versa. Some birds are never very friendly and some, like Maggie's Jimmy, completely change their wild and wooley ways!

There are few "pigeon whisperers" - Phil (pdpbison) is one. His ways and "techniques" never cease to amaze me! However, few can do what he can. However, that's not to say that his techniques won't help.

Nevertheless, love, time and patience, can make all the difference. Never give up and, no matter what, accept your pijies as they are...

Best of luck...HUGS TO ALL


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It will take a while longer for a three year old bird to become tame, and it may never be as tame as some birds get.

If Munchkin had 3 years of very limited contact with a human being, he is quite set in his ways, and it may take him another 3 years just to become more passive.

Some pigeons really never get tame to where they will fly to your shoulder, but where they will at least tolerate you or eat out of your hand. 

My pet pigeons, raised from 4 days, are the only ones who will fly to my shoulder, but they will peck the heck out of me if I tresspass on their territory, like sticking my hand inside their cubby...that is just a male pigeons attitude, defending his territory. 

I have pigeons who have never been tame, that I got when they were 2 years old, but if I hold out my hand with peanuts in it, they will fly into my hand and sit there until every peanut is gone. Once you find a snack they REALLY like, things may change.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*thanks!!*

Thanks Mr. Squeaks and Trees Gray!

I've tried to find a treat he really likes - so far no luck. But I sure will keep trying. From what his previous momma told me, he got lots of attention for the first couple of years but not so much lately since they had taken in a number of unreleaseable wounded ferals who needed special care. (which is why they wanted to find Munch a loving home where he'd get more human contact)

I'm probably just not being patient enough...he really is a sweet pijie-pie. It makes me sad that he's afraid of me still - but I don't blame him.

That being said...I'm curious about the "pigeon whisperer's" techniques! Mr. Squeaks - where can I find out more? I recently read an autobiography of a horse whisperer and found it fascinating!
~Karen


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> Thanks Mr. Squeaks and Trees Gray!
> 
> I've tried to find a treat he really likes - so far no luck. But I sure will keep trying. From what his previous momma told me, he got lots of attention for the first couple of years but not so much lately since they had taken in a number of unreleaseable wounded ferals who needed special care. (which is why they wanted to find Munch a loving home where he'd get more human contact)
> 
> ...


Y'know, Karen, your post reminded me of something else. Squeaks does NOT take kindly and acts like Munchkin whenever ANYONE else gets close to him. Because you are "new" and a "stranger," Munchkin just may take more "time" to get used to you. In which case, "time" will be your main concern. Patience and love will do the rest.

For treats, I've never tried peanuts with Squeaks, but he SURE LOVES his Safflowers AND HEMP seeds. I buy the Hemp seeds at a local feed store. You can't grow 'em though! 

BTW, there is also "touch" therapy. Linda Tellington has a book called "The Tellington Touch." The TTouch can be quite affective, even if one uses like a "wand" to touch if you can't get too close...

Some of our members are "naturals" in their relationships with their birds. Phil, who I also call "Dr. Doolittle" is - ah - a little different. If you send him a PM (private message - done by clicking on pdpbision - you can find his name by going to Phil in the Members list - and then "send private msg"), I'm sure he could give you some tips. Just tell him "Shi" (or Mr. Squeaks) sent you...LOL...he definitely knows my name...He lives in Las Vegas and has saved many a bird...

I'm sure all will work out...in time...


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Scared birds*

Hamza,

Look in a mirror, and make sure you wipe those feathers away from your mouth.

But seriously ... pigeons are smart, and they communicate with each other, and do we humans as a whole give them reason to trust us? Congratulate yourself if you have some survivors. 

Slow movements, like Lady Tarheel recommends, even wth the tamest pigeons. 

Getting old and slow helps. You claim to be 15. Give yourself and your pigeons oh, say, another forty years or so, then report back to those on PT who are still around. 

And Phil aka pdpbison is definitely a magician with some astounding techniques which I for one would never have enough time left in my life to discover on my own. Read some of his postings, and you feel almost courageous and intuitve enough to go to the zoo and attempt to pet lions and schmooze with the pit vipers without blinking an eye or having second thoughts! (This is not flattery. Simply facts). He even made arrempts to feed a baby hummingbird (successfully) and save its life (alas, unsuccessfully in the end). I have mixed thoughts about the so-called hummingbird expert who refused to pass on to Phil his "secret" hummingbird feeding formula in this emergency. But I need to withhold judgement since I am not apprised of all the facts in the case. 

Back to my cartoons and silly stuff. Which I take seriously. 

Larry 

Congratulations, *Mr. Squeaks,* on our 4000th (+2) posting!.. Demonstrates a lot of work at the PT website.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

amoonswirl said:


> I'm probably just not being patient enough...he really is a sweet pijie-pie. It makes me sad that he's afraid of me still - but I don't blame him.
> ~Karen


Hi Karen,

I think Munckin may sense how you feel. Please don't feel sad about his reaction to you, just accept it for now , and respect him for it. I'm sure with a lot of encouragement and 1 on 1 time, things will change for the better.

I have some birds that I have no clue what their history is as they are rehabs, they may be carrying alot of traumatic emotional baggage, so I let it be, and respect them, give them space, and continue to communicate with them little by little.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Pigeons have personalities, and no two pigeons in a setting are alike. I adopted a pigeon from Trees Gray last Spring and he is such a ham. I just cant keep him off my head. He just adores to have his head rubbed and stroked gently, and he EXPECTS it on a daily basis.

I also adopted Beaksley from feral pigeon here on pigeon talk, last mid winter. He does not really liked to be grabed, but he will fly to me when I call him, and he likes his breast area stroked. 

Uchiwa, is a beautiful white and black Indina fantail that I adopted from Jgregg also here on PT. well, it took MANY MONTHS to het him to fly to me. When he is flying in the coop, he will touch down to me. He knows he gets a small treat of unsalted raw shelled sunflower seeds.

Barbie Blue bar, one I rescued last summer used to be all over me untill she fell in love with an older pigeon named Paris. She now does not like to be touched by me, but will fly on my shoulder, or head if SHE deems it necessary!

Paris, I adopted him from a member in Northern Iowa who rescued him last December(2005). I got him also last summer. Paris I understand, did not wished to be claimed by the original owner "because he was a usless racer who got lost". Well, I don't race, so I took him in. He went from flapping around every time someone would go by his quarantine cage when I had him isolated, to a pigeon who now takes commands from me to get inside his night cage when I secure them down for the night. He does not and may not ever win my total trust to the point of flying to me, but I understand this and give him his space.

And last but not least, there is Tooter...my "senior bird" I rescuded in the Spring of 04. I also can't keep him off me. I have a picture of him and I riding my bike together.

Yes, it may take time and patience.Hang in there.And yes speaking to the in a calm way,and gentle approach will help.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*thanks*

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice!
I will give it some more time. I certainly don't mind giving him love and attention! And I'll keep looking for a treat he especially likes.
~K

p.s. Victor - the photo of you & Tooter on the bicycle is adorable!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hamza & Moonswirl, 

I agree totally with what everyone else has said. Pigeons are all different, unique like any animal. SO, patience, love and understanding will win the day 90% of the time. 

Some things to remember are *routine* - birds are creatures of habit and love organization in their lives. Keep things scheduled as much as possible with feeding, cleaning, fun time etc. *Patience* - one has to be very patient with animals like birds, they don't often respond right away, it takes time to establish trust and a bond. *Treats* - these play a vital role in solidifying a relationship with your pigeon/bird or any animal. Once you find a treat that your pigeon likes, then this will be a "weapon" in your arsenal and useful with taming 

I have 3 pet pigeons; 2 are handraised, spoiled little devils and their father is a more 'wild" barnyard pigeon He has never really become tame and is definitely afraid of me. That said though, he's 20 times better than when I first brought him home


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

*Treats?*

If there is anyone from *Pak./Ind*. or know the *hindi/urdu* language, can they tell me what safflower and sunflower seeds are called in *hindi/urdu*?

Local stores dont know English names...!!!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Hindi and Urdu terms for safflower and sunflower*

Hello Hamza,

I typed "safflower in hindi" in the Google search bar, and this was the first website listed:

Bawarchi: Glossary of English to Hindi Terms

http://www.bawarchi.com/glossary.html

Safflower seeds = Carthamus tinctorius = Kardai, kusumbha 

(or another website lists kusam. Phonetically, both English alphabet spellings sound the same in Hindi, I believe. Someone once told me Buddha is pronounce more or less with one syllable, Budd (or "bood," with a certain inflection at the end). And Rama, "Ram." And so on. However, I am not a linguist, don't need to learn or use Hindi yet, so don't quote me.

Sunflower seeds = Sunflower = Helianthus annus = Surajmukhi 

Other links:

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Cart_tin.html 

This link shows safflower in different languages, with their original symbols or fonts (or alphabets). If your computer fonts do not include fonts for Hindi, Urdu, et cetera, or if you have disabled the fonts in order to save hard drive disk space, you may be able to see the fonts only in .pdf format. I am not too informed on this, just something i picked up when reading about Apple Mac computers.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Urdu

References to Urdu. 

Safflower in Urdu: Kusumba, Zafran kadhab 
Sunflower in Urdu: sūrya-mukhī


Wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sunflower
(sūrya-mukhī)

India is so rich in foods and spices, and its cuisines are so old and have had so much time to be developed since people had much time to do this, that you can probably find many alternatives to the more limited European and North American seeds and plants available. After all, most of our spices originate from from the subcontinent, and European health and lifespan increased greatly in the 15th-16th centuries when the Portuguese opened sea routes for the spice trade. There are probably Ayurveda recipes for animals. I should probably inform myself further on this. I like pickles and chutneys. 

Larry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here are pics, perhaps this will also help.

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm


Here is a link to sunflowers in general. Pigeons can only eat the very small black oil sunflower seed, not the big seed with white stripes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_seed


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

Thank you....it realy helped...

But to my surprise, my pigeons are unable to swallow wheat, barley, peas and legumes or lentils...They eat rice and a local seed "bajra" without problem...Whats wrong? Are they toooo young?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Food for thought, and food for the tummy: what do you choose?*

Hamza,

I am not a nutritionist, but speaking in general terms, we develop enzymes to digest what is necessary and good for us. And we will develop them in the proportion necessary for efficient digestion. Eating too much of a strange diet often makes "vacations" "interesting" for tourists. 

Birds are not mammals, they don't have mammary glands, they don't produce milk for the young to digest and therefore milk will make them sick (unless it has been processed further by microorganaisms into cheese or joghurt). (Pigeon "crop milk" is not the same as the milk produced by mammals; the same word is usd for goat milk, cow milk, human milk, and other similar or dissimilar things, for convenience). Humans produce and use the enyyme lactase to digest the milk sugar lactose. No lactase, and you cannot digest lactose. Years ago americansshipped powdered milk in food relief shipments to starving Africans, who didn't kow what to do with it since they couldn't digest it, so they white-washed their mud huts with it. And stayed hungry, I suppose. 

When I came to Germany over twenty years ago it was hard to find peanut butter here, or if I did find some "peanut butter" it was not at reasonable prices. Hamburgers? Well, maybe a hamburger made from pork. Or a sort of hambuger at McDonald's. Now peanut butter is found in most stores, even some American brands. My wife thought American candies and cakes "too sweet." 

In a recent _National Geographic_ article I read that the cold countries (northern European) grow wheat, and therefore produce and drink lots of beer. In the really cold countries of Russia, and in Siberia, they turn the wheat into vodka. France produces lots of grapes, so they drink lots of wine. And so on. 

We tend to eat what satisfies and fills us, what we have been raised on nd have therefore developed a taste for. If you stop drinking milk after your mother stops nursing you in many countries, your body will stop producing lactase and you will be lactose-intolerant or unable to digest milk. The same thing may happen to other foods.

We learn a lot from pigeons by observing them and having patience. If we try to force things because of certain rituals and formulas we have picked up, then we usually don't understand the underlying principles, and may do unnecessary damage. 

No one usually needs to teach us to breathe, or to pee. The basics we usually pick up on ourselves. It's when we go to school and learn to read and start to listen to the wrong people that we pick up our bad habits and believe things because they are convenient. 

Good luck with your pigeons.

Larry


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hamza said:


> But to my surprise, my pigeons are unable to swallow wheat, barley, peas and legumes or lentils...They eat rice and a local seed "bajra" without problem...Whats wrong? Are they toooo young?


Pigeons in general Hamza have eating likes and dislikes just as we humans do. I prefer a hamburger instead of a cheesburger. I like to taste the meat.

I have six pet pigeons but only three of them will eat the lentils and green split peas. 

I have another one that absolutely ignored shelled unsalted sunflower seeds (it is more of a treat) and now lately he eats the stuff as if it were his last meal. 

Sometimes eating habits change. Once they try it (or have to) they realize sometimes that it isn't bad after all.


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

*Finally, a taste of success!*

Well, my father had 2 pigeons when he was a kid but only for 3 weeks cause they flew away somehow and his father wouldn't let him keep more cause he cried a lot due to them flying away...He knows some stuff about them...

Upon my complaint, that my pigeons were to shy/scared, he told me to cut back on their feed for a day... Nothing in the morning and some in afternoon...

As evening came, i got out their feed, put my hand (with feed) into their cage and spilled some seeds nearby. Slowly but surely, Monu seemed quite brave and after 10 min she pecked nearby and then on my hand. Seeing this, Sonu came and started chowing! (on my hand)! 

I was really excited! i could feel their soft necks and their sharp nails!
Well, i was told by a shopkeeper that pigeons just love "Kangini" or Italian Millet. I bought some and when i sprinkled some on the floor, they went wild, fighting each other for it!

Maybe this was the treat i was waiting for!
Thnks every1!
~Hamza


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hamza - so glad to hear that you are having success making friends with your pigeons! Their soft feathers and sharp nails are such a nice feeling : )

Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and give a little update as well. 

I still have not found a treat that Munchkin likes. I've tried safflower, unsalted peanut chunks, black oil sunflower, millet, and even small pieces of carrots, apples, greens, and breadcrumbs but he shows no special interest in any of them. 

However, I did find a way that he seems to like for me to pet him. I am very excited about this! If I reach my fingers up under the thick feathers of his neck and scratch the skin very lightly in a circular motion, he relaxes, closes his eyes and he really seems to enjoy it. (Not exactly the TTouch method, but something like that...) Finally he does not seem as frightened of me - maybe we are on to something : )


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hamza, I am happy to see that you are using the ol' get to them through their tummy" technique. It will take some time and on your part, patience. That is great news. 

Karen, there is hope! Your Munckin who is older reminds me of the personality my older pigeon Paris has. He has calmed down a lot compared to the wild frenzy he was in last Summer, but I doubt he will ever accept me "grabbing him". I am happy to just accept him the way he is and respect the space he likes. Maybe by next summer, I will be able to up-date his persoanlity? Ya never know!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just a quick comment about your last post, Karen and your pigeon neck "scratching." I hear what you are saying. I can do that to Squeaks too, HOWEVER, it's the "WHEN" that's the catch!

If he's in protective daddy or molt mode, forget it (for the most part). If, he's in MATE mode, wellllll, we're talkin' a pij who LOVES to scritched, petted and loved!

Just have to watch his behavior!  

Right now, he's under my computer chair, cooing every so often for attention!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

amoonswirl said:


> I still have not found a treat that Munchkin likes. I've tried safflower, unsalted peanut chunks, black oil sunflower, millet, and even small pieces of carrots, apples, greens, and breadcrumbs but he shows no special interest in any of them.
> 
> : )


If I may offer this...

Unsalted raw shelled sunflower seeds. They might be found at your supermarket in the pecan/nut section. Health food stores I am sure sell it. Of course, it is available via internet,and cheaper that route too.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Victor said:


> If I may offer this...
> 
> Unsalted raw shelled sunflower seeds. They might be found at your supermarket in the pecan/nut section. Health food stores I am sure sell it. Of course, it is available via internet,and cheaper that route too.



Thanks for the tip, Victor! I will look for those. Much appreciated : )


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

One comment regarding the shelled sunflower seeds - they are very rich, so don't feed more than a few a day. Walter weighs over 800 gms and any more than 3 a day would give him the runs. Birds love them, but the seeds go stale relatively quickly, so feel free to munch some yourself.


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## cowgalsarah (Nov 1, 2005)

*a whole flock*

hey i need help.. i hav a WHOLE flock of pigeons to tame.. please help me.. there are 6 of them and none of them like me,,, oh and is it ok to clip wings (clipping them the right way) or is it bad and cruel.. (they live in an avary outside) plase help


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