# thoughts on pox . . .



## fallenweeble (Sep 2, 2007)

hi pijie people,
i'm sort of coaching a new pijie person who just found a pigeon. long story short, the vet diagnosed the pigeon with pox this morning. i wanted to search to find "pox" threads but when i did this nothing came up. should i be using another term? the lady who found the bird was worried the bird would need to be put down due to the pox but i told her i thought, based on things i had read here previously, that pox was highly treatable/manageable and that euthanasia was not generally called for with this sort of case - this is true right? the lady (actually a couple) who rescued the bird are paying for its medical care and they are considering keeping the bird as an indoor pet if the original owners cannot be located (the vet has reported the band number to a local organization). i am trying to encourage these very nice folks . . . any thoughts, ideas, pox info or search techniques i should try?
thanks!
f. weeble


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Pigeon pox is like people "chicken pox" they will go away. Once the bird has this problem the chances of rehaving it is very slim. A loft in my club had a nasty case of pox. He did not ship when sick, BUT now when the blisters are gone the birds are doing well. 
http://siegelpigeons.com/asked-pox.html


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I don't have any links to pigeon pox, but I had a bunch of birds with pox. 
I still have a couple now recovering from it. 
All my pox babies made it, except for one, he had bad pox, probably also internal.
With good supportive care your bird should be fine.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

There are some good threads in here regarding pox, not sure why it is that
your search isn't retrieving anything for you. You might try other search modes like avian pox virus, pox virus, pigeon pox, etc. You can also click on the webshots address below and find a folder w/scanned pages on pox virus
from Clinical Avian Medicine. There are generally considered to be three
kinds of poxvirus, though I have read of 5 different classifications. It
is managable if either Dry (Cutaneous) or Wet (Diptheritic), though
if it invades/colonizes the organs, as in Septicemic, the bird will go 
quickly. I had quite a bout w/it here locally and all but one of the pox birds
from the Overpass flock survived. A bird can have more than one type of pox combo'ed w/other
infections simultaneously. It's good to keep an eye out for canker while
the bird has pox, just remember that the wet pox does produce lesions
sometimes mistaken for pox.

If they don't have any other birds, they really don't have anything to worry 
about, most folks worry about it spreading to other birds. They do need to
keep boils/lesions clean and dry and Hydrogen Peroxide straight up on these
will do just that (yes, I know, normally we dilute HP)  .

They should also keep an eye on the bird making sure that it is self-feeding,
if not they may need to step in and augment the food intake, still leaving
seeds in the cage for the bird throughout the day. The bird will need a higher
protein diet than usual while the virus runs its' course.

Thanks for helping these folks out w/the bird and making sure they understand poxvirus issues.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thuja Occidentalis (the caplets) is a great remidy for pox. It can be found at your local health food store. Will get rid of it internally within a few weeks. you can use thuja oil topically also.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Thuja Occidentalis (the caplets) is a great remidy for pox. It can be found at your local health food store. Will get rid of it internally within a few weeks. you can use thuja oil topically also.


It's a virus and needs to run it's course, basically. If internal, and it gets into
the bloodstream via lesions it can be a very difficult time for the bird. It just
depends on how the virus plays out in any one bird. We can offer supportive
care and some herbal supplements have proved very beneficial in the "treatment" of viruses, which is to say, provide good supportive care.
We do need to keep an eye open for secondary bacterial infections and
treat those accordingly.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> It's a virus and needs to run it's course, basically. If internal, and it gets into
> the bloodstream via lesions it can be a very difficult time for the bird. It just
> depends on how the virus plays out in any one bird. We can offer supportive
> care and some herbal supplements have proved very beneficial in the "treatment" of viruses, which is to say, provide good supportive care.
> ...



Hi fp,

This is what was told to me by Doreen my rehabber, as she has used it many times successfully...in conjunction with garlic and other supportive stuff. I haven't had an opportunity to use it since most of my birds have had the vaccine. She knows its a virus, but she says this one gets it out of the organs and in two weeks or a little more, and heal internally as well, and kicks the immune system in gear.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Pigeon Pox*

* HI FALLENWEEBLE, If you go to google.com and type in PIGEON POX you will find that there is a world of information on PIGEON POX. .GEORGE *


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## fallenweeble (Sep 2, 2007)

THANK YOU everyone!
i'm so glad that the news is mostly good about pox. 
i will be in contact with these folks and will act as their "cheerleader" through the process. 
you guys rock!
f. weeble


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi fp,
> 
> This is what was told to me by Doreen my rehabber, as she has used it many times successfully...in conjunction with garlic and other supportive stuff. I haven't had an opportunity to use it since most of my birds have had the vaccine. She knows its a virus, but she says this one gets it out of the organs and in two weeks or a little more, and heal internally as well, and kicks the immune system in gear.


Yes, I understand, the difference between natural healing and AMA...essentially, the virus needs to go it's course regardless. Some natural
healing remedies/herbs cause the virus to cycle quicker than the virus would
otherwise, so the potentiallity to 'kick it out' quicker. Just a different perspective than we are used to w/AMA drugs, though I've experienced
the results myself and know them to be real.

fp


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> Thuja Occidentalis (the caplets) is a great remidy for pox. It can be found at your local health food store. Will get rid of it internally within a few weeks. you can use thuja oil topically also.


Treesa, this is great to know, but without any specifics, it's not really helpful to me.  I just bought some Thuja pills. Is 30 C the right potency? How many pills should I give, how many times a day, for how many days? Also, does the oil need to be diluted? How much dilution is required? How often can I apply it topically? Can you get this info from your rehabber? Thanks so much!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Zenmont said:


> Treesa, this is great to know, but without any specifics, it's not really helpful to me.  I just bought some Thuja pills. Is 30 C the right potency? How many pills should I give, how many times a day, for how many days? Also, does the oil need to be diluted? How much dilution is required? How often can I apply it topically? Can you get this info from your rehabber? Thanks so much!


Check the RESOURCES section on our DAILY forum, you will find alot of very useful information there.

Scroll down and you will find the answers to your questions, on NATURAL HEALING thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10568


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Like the others have said, it just needs to run its course. Medicine will help but there isn't an actual "cure" for it, like there isn't for our chicken pox. After a pigeon has had it, it develops an immunity to it. One bad thing about pox is, sometimes the lessions will get infected with bacteria and other things. 'Usually, 1/4 of a 200-mg Flagyl tablet once daily and 1/2 a 50-mg doxycycline tablet also once daily gives a good control over the secondary agents.' - _The Flying Vet's Pigeon Health and Management, by Dr. Colin Walker._

That's pretty much a summary of what it said in the book. Figured that might help a little?...Maybe?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Like the others have said, it just needs to run its course. Medicine will help but there isn't an actual "cure" for it, like there isn't for our chicken pox.


Please don't dismiss the results of using Thuja pilutes/ or oil, especially if you haven't used the products. This is about as close to a cure as you will get. This actual works, it is not medicine, it bolsters the immune system at the same time it gets rid of pox internally.

I haven't used it personally, but I listen when my rehabber tells me what she uses, as everything she has told me has worked. My rehabber has used Thuja on many different species of birds, over 30 years, and if she says it works....it works. She is licensed rehabber and herbologist. Reti, one of our moderators, has also used it successfully.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Really? I had never heard of it until today  
I'll keep it in mind if I ever have pox come up in the loft.
Thanks


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> Check the RESOURCES section on our DAILY forum, you will find alot of very useful information there.
> 
> Scroll down and you will find the answers to your questions, on NATURAL HEALING thread:


Thanks Treesa,

I knew it had to be somewhere, but I forgot to look there. But the information doesn't list what potency of pill you should use. I'm assuming it's the 30C potency.? Can you ask your rehabber about that? Or if Reti sees this maybe she can let me know. You also said that your rehabber uses Garlic and "other supportive stuff". Can you let me know what those are? Also, what kind of garlic (and how much) does she administer?


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