# A bad experience with fungus.



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I've recently had a long ordeal during which I nursed & lost two beloved pigeons, despite my best efforts and more money that I can afford to spend on vet care, and I wanted to share the experience with others who may be interested and benefit.

As a brief background, in August of this year I brought 3 young birds home from a fellow fancier, who were kept in quarantine 3 weeks and then moved into the main loft. About 2 weeks after they moved in one bird became ill and I separated him, bringing him indoors to watch and care for him. Although he was eating well enough, he was listless and he wasn't keeping any of his food down. He ended up being injected twice daily with Baytril and getting multiple small volume tube feedings daily, but less than a week after bringing him inside he was gone. Immediate cause of death was aspiration of vomit, which happened because he'd become too weak to actually execute vomiting.

While that bird was being cared for indoors I became suspicious that a 2nd pigeon was becoming ill. Her symptoms included listlessness and apparent pain or discomfort in her crop. This was evidenced by her sitting very erect with head stretched up high, and an inability or unwillingness to sit in a relaxed position. Subsequently she stopped eating and I ended up medicating and feeding her as well, but she also expired quickly, within days.

Fecal and crop swabs showed only a high # of gram positive rod bacteria, hence the baytril. I'd also collected a specimen from the entire loft and sent it off for testing, which returned only haemophilus bacteria (I have a suspicion that one turns up in those mail tests a lot just because it survives the time frame). That also should succumb readily to antibiotic treatment, and so the entire loft was being treated by this time with baytril (tablets) as a precaution. During the course of the illness as it developed in the two birds who died, respiratory congestion developed and became severe, so Tylan was being delivered via drinking water as well.

I decided that despite the expense, I had to know what was happening to my birds because at this point, it seemed contagious but not bacterial, or possibly due to some kind of toxicity, and I had to find out what was going on to try and keep it from wiping out my birds.

I took my Beauty Bird to Michigan State University's Diagnostic Center for Population and Animal Health http://animalhealth.msu.edu for necropsy.

[I want to stress how thorough and complete this organization is, and I would encourage everyone to contact them for such services if ever needed. You can ship animals to them and they will provide you with complete instructions. The cost for this service was $150.00 which is very reasonable given that it included complete necropsy, all indicated cultures, histological examination, and any other procedure deemed indicated by the pathologist. The only additional charges are for individual toxicological tests, and those are handled ala carte as indicated by other results. My avian vet was willing to do a necropsy and send tissue samples out, but it would have cost far more to do it that way as they charge for the tests then in turn pass on the lab's charges, and most likely MSU would be doing the actual tests anyway. In all my experiences with the Veterinary hospital at MSU they have exceeded expectations and I am very impressed with them. I have to include that recommendation of them as a resource!]

Beauty's necropsy did indicate some tissue damage and possible rupture in her crop, however it was only the microscopic histology which revealed what had really happened to her. She had developed a severe fungal infection of the crop and surrounding tissues, something known to experts as a 'mucor' class infection of a type most often seen in young cattle. The organism indicated was 'Zygomyces' which is a normal environmental fungus (found everywhere) and which is not normally a pathogen, however it can invade tissues and become dangerous if ingested in large amounts or if the host is debilitated. This is something that can cause life-threatening problems in diabetics, and immune compromised patients.

The most likely source of exposure would be through feed, and of course we're told time and again not to feed damp, wet, or moldy seeds and to keep our lofts dry, etc. Well I live by this advice and my loft is kept very clean, and very dry. During the weeks it took for this situation to evolve I drove myself insane trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and how 'whatever-it-was' got into my birds. We went through bedding (sawdust, straw) being a culprit to the birds ingesting too much grass, to something in the soil, to contemplating possible vandalism (deliberate poisoning) and the list went on. I laid awake at night wondering if there was anything more I could or should be doing.

As for food, I buy it in small amounts, mix in my legumes and other supplements, and store it in a closed container. It is dry and I have never had a problem with any mildew, mold, fungus, or damp feed. I threw all out anyway and replaced it with food from a different source, just trying to cover every possible avenue.

On the day that Beauty passed, I happened to find a large amount of mold/fungus growing in, of all places, their bag of grit.

I purchased (note the past tense!) grit from a local feed/farm supply, in 5 lb packages, which they bag up and sell pre-measured. The best explanation I can come up with is that the bags were allowed to get damp, or the grit itself was damp or wet and dirty when bagged, and the mold grew up and through the material. It was not visible at all through the plastic, (probably avoiding the light) and not grossly apparent until I'd used up about half the grit. Bits of it that might have been scooped up or come loose would just have looked like dust or bits of dry grass or something innocuous. Once I saw the large mass of it in there, I immediately threw it away but later retrieved it and took it along with the remains to the lab. When the pathologist completed her tests, she was convinced this was the source given the appearance of the material and her other findings. I regret that I did not take a picture of it to share. It's indicative of how stressed I was at the time that I didn't even think about doing that!

I guess I should also share that this is not a topical sort of fungus (like yeast) and that drugs like Nystatin are useless against it. In fact, what the pathologist referred to as 'big guns' anti-fungals should be used sparingly if at all, as they pose health risks in the form of tissue and organ damage that can be more dangerous than the pathogen they are used against. I have since confirmed this opinion with 2 other vets and also web research, even on human patients being treated for fungal infections. Administration of drugs like ketoconozole and the like must be done carefully and certainly never given to any patient 'just in case' they might have some sort of fungal infection, or done knowing the associated risks. Despite my knowing with 100% certainty that my birds were exposed to this potential fungal pathogen, I have elected NOT to treat the rest of them with an anti-fungal as I feel the risks outweigh the benefits. It is best to trust to their own immune systems and on getting/keeping them in top shape with good diet and supplements.

I also wanted to stress how easy it is to become distracted by one set of circumstances or symptoms and fail to see a bigger picture. Making an assumption that a new bird brought something contagious into the loft was an obvious early mistake. And finally...and most scary, there is no way to test for illnesses like these. The only available way would be by biopsy of the crop.

Believe it or not that's the short version, and I apologize for the length of it but I wanted to share it because dangers like this lurk in such unexpected places. I am happy to share a copy of the official report with anyone who's interested, but use the email link from the member's page, as my PM box is always full and I'm lazy about cleaning it out. Just send me a note with a fax # and I'll send a copy.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing this information with us. Since I became a member here, I have tried to share information from vet visits if something unusual was going on plus any necropsy reports. I just think it is so valuable for all of us to know as much as we can in caring for our pigeons.

I'm terribly sorry you have lost the two pigeons and pray there will be no more deaths. I don't blame you for not treating the others given the advice you have received.

We have a state operated laboratory that does our necropsies and they are also very thorough. The avian pathologist usually runs his findings by veterinarians at NC State Vet School in Raleigh to get their opinions before finalizing his report.

Who would ever think that grit would become moldy. I guess we should all empty our bags into other containers to check them out.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the information and for the warning. I am so sorry that this was revealed by the loss of two birds. Grit is not one of the things that I take much notice of, I just top up their dishes. I realise now that I will have to be much more vigilant for any signs of fungus and mold anywhere in the aviary.

Cynthia


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks TS, for your very in depth (despite it being the short version), thorough
report to the membership regarding your recent experience w/sickness and 
fatalities in your loft. http://animalhealth.msu.edu/ sounds like an excellent
lab w/invaluable services, this is a good reminder to us all about becoming familiar w/resources of this kind in the event of a health emergency
w/our birds and other animals/pets dependant on us for care.

You are correct about the antifungal big guns in that there is a caution regarding liver damage from using them especially w/the older generation ones. I think that Itraconazole, however, is used w/birds a little more extensively than the others w/better results. One of the advantages of relying on some of the natural products like garlic is that they may be used w/relative safety and will not produce microbial resistance as a result. 
Regardless, there are some instances where avian vets will use Itraconazole
prophylactically, though they have had extensive education and are trained
to obtain the need data, weigh the information and make these judgement calls.

Your experience w/buying re-packaged product reminds me of the issue of
repackaged meds or other products that have a shelf-life that sometimes
occurs through the Pigeon Supply Houses. There is no doubt that having
Pij Supply Houses as a resource has saved many a bird's life, so not a put-down. But a good point to bring up here, that we leave ourselves vulnerable when purchasing re-packaged products of any kind as we can't see the condition, solution strength, expiration date....or any other valuable information that the
original packaging provides.

I'm sorry for your loss, but thank-you for taking the time to post this information to help others.

fp


----------



## Guest (Nov 4, 2007)

I can't tell you how badly I feel for you and the birds. It just goes to show that as careful as we can be, there is always something bad that can get through.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi The snipes, all...


Oye...

So sorry...


A Valuable reminder to us all of course.


...what would some of the regimens be for treating this?



Phil
l v


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I am so sorry for the loss of your two birds. You did an amazing job of sleuthing to notice the fungus growth in the grit. Who would ever expect that something that seems so inert as grit would grow something so deadly in our birds!! Heading out now to check the supplement pots!


----------



## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

TS,
Thank you so very much for sharing this experience and the knowledge obtained from it. I would never ever have thought of contaminated grit. I'm very sorry you lost your birds and hope that the rest pull through without developing symptoms.

Margaret


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I am sorry you had to go through all this but we appreciate you sharing this with us. 

I too never would have imagined a problem possibly co-existing in the grit 

containers. I wash the seed dishes at least once a week unless their soiled, 

and the water dishes get a good cleaning twice a week with daily spot 

checks. I know that seed gets old and dirty if it sets in the dish too long, and 

it gets tossed out. I will now practice this with the grit as well. I have been 

ignoring it if it is dry, and "looks clean". I will change this practice today.


----------

