# Do mother and son birds pair up readily?



## Pigeonfan94 (Feb 15, 2010)

Hey everyone When i get my new pens built i am wanting to pair one of my beautiful male pigeons back to his mother. If i put them together will they readily pair if they know they are mother and son?


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes they will  When they are sexually mature, they no longer know each other as parent and child. They are just pigeons like all the others.


----------



## Pigeonfan94 (Feb 15, 2010)

Oh ok thanks! I didn't know that


----------



## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

PF94 that what line breeding is all about.


----------



## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

What Are The Benifits Of Line Breeding?


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

To build on certain traits that you like. Also in hopes that when you outcross them, you'll get hybrid vigor in the children. Linebreeding is usually uncles/aunts to nieces/nephews, or cousins. Then there is inbreeding with siblings or children with their parents. Both are for the same purpose.


----------



## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

That is not line breeding its in-breeding


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

What about nest mates. I have a pair that are nest mates and I didn't want them to pair up and for what ever reason they won't have anything to do with each other?


----------



## Black.Pied (Jun 27, 2010)

i wouldnt pair nest mates but each to there own


----------



## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

*What in the heck is hybrid vigor ?*


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sport14692 said:


> *What in the heck is hybrid vigor ?*


" (genetics) the tendency of a crossbred organism to have qualities superior to those of either parent"


----------



## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

OK, you guys are good. I have a lot to learn


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I also try to avoid nest mates and siblings from mating up, but they will do it happens. I have a pair of siblings mated up in my OB loft right now 

Hybrid vigor is an enhancement/improvement from outcrossing. I've heard it referred to as a "genetic kick".


I found this wonderful set of slides that tells about linebreeding, inbreeding, outcrossing, and hybrid vigor.
http://www.shewmaker.com/au96conv.pdf


----------



## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Is hybrid vigor only found in racing pigeons or could it be found in any pigeon breed.


----------



## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I also try to avoid nest mates and siblings from mating up, but they will do it happens. I have a pair of siblings mated up in my OB loft right now
> 
> Hybrid vigor is an enhancement/improvement from outcrossing. I've heard it referred to as a "genetic kick".
> 
> ...


Thanks Becky nice slid show


----------



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

*Colors*

Becky: Since you know about this stuff, I just posted a pedigree of a hen I have on my blog that I expected blue from and got red?? The address for my blog is below, maybe you can check it out.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

raftree - Those are typical results. Since the cockbird was red, he passed the red gene to the kids. The only way you will get blue birds from that mating is if he is carrying blue (he'd have blue/black flecking). Red is dominant to blue 




ValencianFigs - Hybrid vigor occurs in all animals and plants. It's used especially in livestock, to produce superior size and yield


----------



## Ramiro (Oct 8, 2007)

ValencianFigs said:


> Is hybrid vigor only found in racing pigeons or could it be found in any pigeon breed.


Hybrid vigor can be found in any living thing, from corn to cattle. Virtually everything you eat is the result of a first generatio (F1) n cross between different species or subspecies to increase the end yield of product. Crossing a brahman cattle (bos indicus) with some european beef breed (bos taurus) should result in a cross that would yield more meat than either parent, among other benefits. Same thing with corn, tomatoes, etc. 

Behavior, which is an important aspect to pigeon breeders, is not really affected by hybrid vigor I don't think. You can't cross one line of really good rollers with another line of really good rollers and end up with a bird that rolls better than both. In fact it may end up being worse than either. The cross would probably be larger, stronger, and just of better biological quality but it would still be of little use to the roller breeder. the same is probably true for racing pigeons seeing how a larger, stronger bird isn't necessarily better than a smaller bird with better stamina. I suppose some pigeons racers could correct me if I'm wrong or better elaborate. 

We use hybrid vigor mostly to mitigate the effects of inbreeding depression. When you line-breed or inbreed animals. the genetic bottleneck that is created by the breeder would, over time, decrease the biological quality of the birds. the degree to which inbreeding depression takes effect depends on the number of animals in the breeding population. The fewer animals, the more important outcrossing is, and this will increase the genetic variance in the population. Which is a good thing. Hope this helped a little.


----------

