# Help with ID of found bird's species, + need a bit of advice on care



## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

I posted this over in the "I found a bird" area, but since it doesn't look like people read or respond much there, I thought I'd post here as well:

Last night I took my dogs out for a hike at a local park - 370+ acres of woods, fields, and so forth. When we got back to the car, I noticed that there was a pure white bird flopping around on the entrance road, clearly in distress.

Popped the dogs in the car and walked over, and found that the bird was quite clearly a tame pigeon or dove - no fear of me at all, readily let me pick it up and examine it, settled into my hands as I carried it back to the van, and eagerly hopped into the dog crate (cage) that I keep set up in the back. 
It has an injured left foot - looks like it got pinched in something; broken skin and bruising on top, and swollen - which it doesn't want to walk on. I don't think anything's broken, it's just painful. 

Took it home, dug out an old parrot cage from storage, gave it some bird seed and water; it ate & drank a lot, then settled right down. 

I initially thought it was a white ringneck - not much of a cere, and it's not a very big bird - but after Googling a few more images, now think it may be a smallish Stielbacht or other white homing pigeon. I'd like some more "expert" opinions. 
link to a gallery of six images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cimawr/sets/72157626868230475/

And one photo:









I also have two questions about care: 

1) I've been washing the sore foot with warm water, which the bird seems to like. What other care would people suggest? Is there a topical antibiotic which is safe to use for birds?

2) I know the bird needs to have grit, but my local petsuperstore doesn't carry any supplies for pigeons. I'm probably going to have to drive 35 miles to a feed store, which I'm not going to be able to do for several days. The pet store did have oyster shell grit.. would that be safe to give in the meantime?

Editing to add: No bands on the feet, so no way to find an owner, unfortunately.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thank you for helping this pigeon. Looks like a young bird. Bird seed is fine for now and I see you have the water in the right sized cup. Calcium grit from the pet store is fine for now. When you have a chance, pigeon mix and grit would be better, but it's not urgent. You can use triple antibiotic ointment on the foot injury. 

Since it's not banded unfortunately you're right; finding the owner will be difficult to impossible. Where, approximately, are you located?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi S D,


Yes, looks like one of the White Pigeon kinds used so often in those absurd 'Dove Release' moments.

Still a youngster, likely not at having had any continuity to allow them to fend well for themselves in the Wild.

Can you post some good close up images of their freshest poops?


This Pigeon does not appear to be feeling very well...might be the Leg, might be something more.


Regular old fashioned 'Neosporin' would be good to apply to the Foot.


In fact, if you can, post some close ups of the Foot, top, and, bottom, also?



Best wishes,



Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Please have a Moderator consolidate your now two identical Threads, in seperate categories, into one Thread, in one category.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

It looks like a white dove, they are pretty small. S/he would make a good pet if you end up keeping him/her.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Thank you for helping this pigeon. Looks like a young bird. Bird seed is fine for now and I see you have the water in the right sized cup. Calcium grit from the pet store is fine for now. When you have a chance, pigeon mix and grit would be better, but it's not urgent. You can use triple antibiotic ointment on the foot injury.
> 
> Since it's not banded unfortunately you're right; finding the owner will be difficult to impossible. Where, approximately, are you located?


 Re helping it, I'm sure it would have been eaten up by a fox or raccoon before morning if I hadn't picked it up. Even if it had been wild, I'd've tried to help... being that it's a tame bird, no way was I going to leave it there! 

Re food & grit, that's what I figured, but thought I'd better make sure. I'm trying to track down some place in reasonable driving distance that sells pigeon supplies; I know a lot of guys in the city fly homers so there's got to be *someplace*! 
I've actually had a pet pigeon before, but it was 20-odd years ago, and he was a free-range bird; slept indoors in a cage at night, but I let him out every morning & he had the run of the yard and pretty much took care of himself in terms of grit. (He was also a foundling - turned up at a stable where I was keeping my pony and adopted me.)

Re the water, I did switch to plastic cage cups that I picked up at the pet store. The cage is on the small side, and s/he is clumsy with the hurt foot, so the bowl kept getting knocked over - it's actually a custard cup so it's got a small base. The ones I bought probably hold about 2/3 of what the custard cup did, but should be OK for now. 

I'm located just north of Baltimore. 

Do you think my ID of a young/small white homer or similar is correct?

Oh, and re keeping the bird.... I'd like to, but it will depend on whether I can teach my dogs it's a family member, not prey. They hunt - one's a Jack Russell/Zwergpinscher cross, the other is essentially a mini lurcher; a mixture of small sighthound, spitz, and some sort of small herding dog. They usually only go after rodents, but still. I'm not too worried about the cats since neither of them hunts birds at all (and the terrier's a far better mouser).


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Hi S D,
> 
> Yes, looks like one of the White Pigeon kinds used so often in those absurd 'Dove Release' moments.
> Still a youngster, likely not at having had any continuity to allow them to fend well for themselves in the Wild. Can you post some good close up images of their freshest poops? This Pigeon does not appear to be feeling very well...might be the Leg, might be something more.
> ...


I'll try to get some photos of the foot - problem is it's something of a three-handed job & I've only got two.  Re the poops, they're greenish, loose and watery at the moment - will try to get some photos of that as well. Editing to add: I'm not 100% sure how much of the wetness is the stools themselves, and how much the water which s/he kept tipping. I should have a better idea tomorrow now that I've got a cage bowl which is secured.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

How big is she? She almost looks dove-like to me (ringneck dove) but it might be that she is just a very gracefully made homer and young as well. 

Does your local pet store have guinea pig bowls (the kind that can't be knocked over) or the dog bowls that can't be tipped? That might make your life and her's easier as far as spilling goes. Even when healthy, doves/pigeons are messy eaters. lol.


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## JM1120 (May 30, 2011)

I live in Baltimore. If you're anywhere close to Patapsaco Avenue, there's a pigeon store there that sells grit and pigeon food. I can give you the phone number if it's not too far away.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

JM1120 said:


> I live in Baltimore. If you're anywhere close to Patapsaco Avenue, there's a pigeon store there that sells grit and pigeon food. I can give you the phone number if it's not too far away.


 Patapsco's on the other side of the city from me - I'm in Towson - but it wouldn't hurt to have the number. If nothing else, they may be able to recommend someplace north of Baltimore.


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## JM1120 (May 30, 2011)

The number is 410-355-0054  Good luck with your bird.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

with white ringneck dove's their tail is allot longer..so this is a white pigeon, perhaps a june wedding release, with no band the bird is yours.. she is very very thin and need to recover hopefully if she is not too ill.. you may want to make a post in the sick and injured thread..she looks pretty sick to me.. they will want pics of her droppings and know what she is being fed.. how she feels too.. I can just tell in the pic she is so very thin.. if you look at pictures of white pigeons you can tell the difference..but esp if the keel bone is protruding by feeling it. she is getting food and rest at this point and that is what she needs.. meds may be advised.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

she is a pigeon.. the tail tells the diff.. rn doves have a longer tail that is not so square..and rn doves have alot rounder head..


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> she is a pigeon.. the tail tells the diff.. rn doves have a longer tail that is not so square..and rn doves have alot rounder head..


She reminds me a lot of my juvenile ringnecks' tails. I can see where you're coming from with the head, esp. around the cere as far as that being pigeon-y. I wish the poster would tell us a size, or have something comparable beside the bird. 

Regardless of species, most of her needs will be the same anyway.

Oh, you know what nobody has asked about her that would tell us for absolutely sure? The sound she makes. Does she sound like this (pigeon):





or this (ringneck dove):


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Iam 100% sure she is a white pigeon by the head and the tail.. plus the color.. white rn doves are not so clear white, but a smooth dusy white.. she is just the same as my 40 white pigeons I have.. but so thin..and sick..


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Yeah, either way she looks sick/thin and I can see where that would make her look smaller and lighter like a dove.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Welcome to PT...... It's hard to tell, I'm trying to see something in the picture to determine the size, but it kinda looks like a white 'Dove' to me. The beak is very small, and the eye's seem different than a pigeons eye. (from what I'm seeing in the other pictures)
Although most pets stores don't sell 'pigeon food', they usually carry 'dove mix', and that would be sufficient also.
The feathers look a little puffed up, I would add a dash of salt and sugar (rehydrating solution) to his water.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Water Cups - 


If the Pigeon is knocking over the Water Cups one is trying to use...elect a low flat bottommed Coffee Cup, set it in one corner of the Cage, and, twist-tie the Handle to the corner of the Cage.

This way, the Pigeon will not knock the Cup over.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I think another picture needs to be taken with a hand next to it for comparison. here is my white dove.




























I see how the tail is longer and more square. I dont see how it is less white. It could just be an maturing dove.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I can just tell in the pic she is so very thin.. if you look at pictures of white pigeons you can tell the difference..but esp if the keel bone is protruding by feeling it. she is getting food and rest at this point and that is what she needs.. meds may be advised.


 S/he is definitely underweight - I noticed that right away. I also noticed today that in addition to the foot injury, there's a clump of feathers missing right above the tail. No injury to the skin, just feathers missing. 

Re size, 11-12" from head to end of tail. Re voice, silent so far. 

I let the bird sit on top of the cage while I was changing the lining earlier; s/he fluttered down, hopped about the floor a bit (doing better with one-footing, and using the sore foot occasionally), then went under the edge of the cabinet and tucked in. Siamese cat went and said hello - as mentioned earlier, my cats are indifferent to birds. He sniffed with mild interest, then walked away, bird was unfazed. 
When I was done cleaning, I picked the bird up; s/he sat on my hand, then as soon as we got near the cage, launched for the door, hopped in, and hunkered down. 
Pretty clearly, s/he is smart enough to know that rest & keeping under cover is what's needed. 

Droppings are a bit more solid today, but I'm concerned that they're still not what I'd call normal. Not sure if my vet treats birds or not, but I'll probably call in the morning and check.

Re photos... my sister's supposed to be coming over for a visit later, so hopefully she'll be able to help me get a photo of the foot, as well as a photo in my hands for size comparison. I'm pretty sure it's a pigeon, though; there's a distinct cere which AFAICT is the most noticeable difference between ringnecks and rock pigeons. 

I remembered last night that there's a small independent pet store about five miles away, so I'm going to check there for pigeon/dove supplies this afternoon; neither of the big pet stores sells doves, so they don't carry ANYTHING for them.  Hopefully the smaller store (which sells captive-bred reptiles and parrot-type birds, or used to) will have a better selection. If not, I'll call the number for the place over on Patapsco.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Most supplies for doves will work for this pigeon, folks who only have one pigeon use dove supplies, as that is what is found at the pet stores.. for people who keep allot of pigeons usually they shop at a feedstore , because they can get feed and grit in 50lb bags..but of course that is not practicle for you.. sick and young pigeons have a cere that is more flesh colord and not as white and large as older healthy birds.. so that is the reason for the cere to be small..it is also bigger in homing pigeons than in say king pigeons..I would say she looks more like a homer to me.. but not that it matters at this point..food in her is what is needed...and of course rest.. I would also think a heating pad under the cage on low may help her keep her body temp up as she may need the extra help in that area.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> Most supplies for doves will work for this pigeon, folks who only have one pigeon use dove supplies, as that is what is found at the pet stores..


 Not around here. NONE of the pet stores, including the small independent one, had anything at all for doves - just parrot-types, canaries, and finches. I did pick up a bottle of liquid antibiotic - Sulfadimethoxine - which can be used for pigeons/doves as well as those types at the small store. 



spirit wings said:


> for people who keep allot of pigeons usually they shop at a feedstore , because they can get feed and grit in 50lb bags..but of course that is not practicle for you..


 Not for just one bird, no. And since I'm just outside the city lines, we really don't have any feed stores nearby anyway. My dogs' food is only available in feed stores, and I make a 90-mile round trip once every six weeks or so to get it. 



spirit wings said:


> sick and young pigeons have a cere that is more flesh colord and not as white and large as older healthy birds.. so that is the reason for the cere to be small.
> <snip>
> . I would also think a heating pad under the cage on low may help her keep her body temp up as she may need the extra help in that area.


 Smaller and flesh colored is exactly what the cere is like on this bird. Heating pad is probably not necessary; here in MD the current temps are in 80s. And I have the cage on top of the refrigerator, which is warm on top.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Not around here. NONE of the pet stores, including the small independent one, had anything at all for doves - just parrot-types, canaries, and finches. I did pick up a bottle of liquid antibiotic - Sulfadimethoxine - which can be used for pigeons/doves as well as those types at the small store.


Do they have Parakeet/budgie food? That could suffice for now if you can find nothing closer.

Finch mixes can be ok, but I've found some of them to be high in fat and cause diarrhea in my birds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Not around here. NONE of the pet stores, including the small independent one, had anything at all for doves - just parrot-types, canaries, and finches. I did pick up a bottle of liquid antibiotic - Sulfadimethoxine - which can be used for pigeons/doves as well as those types at the small store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sometimes it does not matter what temp outside it is... it is like a person getting out of surgery and they need a bit of warmth.. if this pigeon is sick that is what helps them keep their immunities going and not have to work so hard to get well..it is a mainstay of sick birds to give a bit of warmth.. the fridge may be the best place... as far as food.. you can use wild bird food if you can not find a dove or pigeon mix.. perhaps call this store and see what they have. Also.. to find the dove mix at petsmart..sometimes it is at the wild bird food area..and not in the domestic shelf area.. usually it is seperate..so ask someone in the store.
Daugherty Bros Inc 
8314 Carrbridge Circle, Towson, MD 21204-1812 
(410) 832-5252 ‎


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

As Spirit Wings said - Petco here keeps the dove mix with the wild seed also.
And it still wouldn't hurt to put a dash of salt and sugar in his water to give him a boost in case his body is trying to fight off something.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> As Spirit Wings said - Petco here keeps the dove mix with the wild seed also.
> And it still wouldn't hurt to put a dash of salt and sugar in his water to give him a boost in case his body is trying to fight off something.


 Again, unfortunately, none of the three stores close to me carries dove mix. And yes, I both asked the employees AND checked the wild bird section. 

I'm not doing the salt and sugar because I've gone ahead and started the liquid antibiotic; I figure it can't hurt & might help. 

Re Daugherty Bros... I appreciate the effort, but they're not a store, they're a distribution warehouse, and AFAIK they don't sell retail at all. Hours are "by appointment only", and I've never been able to get a human being on the phone there. In fact, they don't even have a greeting message on their answering machine, just the default "Hello. Please leave a message after the tone."


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Again, unfortunately, none of the three stores close to me carries dove mix. And yes, I both asked the employees AND checked the wild bird section.
> 
> I'm not doing the salt and sugar because I've gone ahead and started the liquid antibiotic; I figure it can't hurt & might help.
> 
> Re Daugherty Bros... I appreciate the effort, but they're not a store, they're a distribution warehouse, and AFAIK they don't sell retail at all. Hours are "by appointment only", and I've never been able to get a human being on the phone there. In fact, they don't even have a greeting message on their answering machine, just the default "Hello. Please leave a message after the tone."


has this bird had any type of food?... get some wild bird seed from the supermarket if you have too ?for right now..


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Again, unfortunately, none of the three stores close to me carries dove mix. And yes, I both asked the employees AND checked the wild bird section.
> 
> I'm not doing the salt and sugar because I've gone ahead and started the liquid antibiotic; I figure it can't hurt & might help.
> 
> Re Daugherty Bros... I appreciate the effort, but they're not a store, they're a distribution warehouse, and AFAIK they don't sell retail at all. Hours are "by appointment only", and I've never been able to get a human being on the phone there. In fact, they don't even have a greeting message on their answering machine, just the default "Hello. Please leave a message after the tone."


But does anyone near you have budgie/parakeet mix or even a finch mix?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I just called the petco in your town..they have a 5lb bag of supreme dove mix food...


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> has this bird had any type of food?... get some wild bird seed from the supermarket if you have too! for right now..


 You know, there's really no need to take that tone. Especially since if you'd bothered to READ WHAT I'VE POSTED, you'd find that I quite clearly stated in my original post, as well as in at least one subsequent post, that the bird's been fed.  My concern isn't getting the bird FED, it's getting a pigeon-specific food & getting appropriate grit. 

So far, the only place even remotely close to me that carries pigeon supplies is the one suggested by the poster who lives near Baltimore; that one's 35 miles from me. They're only open until 4 p.m., but I may be able to get there tomorrow on my way to the dogs' agility practice.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I just called the petco in your town..they have a 5lb bag of zupreem dove mix food...


 Could you please be more specific about which one you called? 

I went to the one "in my town" yesterday afternoon, and was told by two different employees that they don't carry dove supplies. Additionally, there was certainly no such product on the shelves, either in the pet bird section or in the section or in the section where they have bird feeders etc. If they do actually have it, and it's not just an error in their computer, I can stop back there later today and pick it up. 

However, again, my main concern is grit, not food.

Editing to add: I just got off the phone with my local PetCo, and they don't even carry Zupreem products.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Could you please be more specific about which one you called?
> 
> I went to the one "in my town" yesterday afternoon, and was told by two different employees that they don't carry dove supplies. Additionally, there was certainly no such product on the shelves, either in the pet bird section or in the section or in the section where they have bird feeders etc. If they do actually have it, and it's not just an error in their computer, I can stop back there later today and pick it up.
> 
> However, again, my main concern is grit, not food.


Do they have Kaytee Hi Cal grit anywhere? It's commonly sold for parrots, and I have found that it works beautifully for my doves--so it would be fine for your pigeon. It has lots of calcium and other goodies in it, too, to get that baby back to nutritional health.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> Do they have Kaytee Hi Cal grit anywhere? It's commonly sold for parrots, and I have found that it works beautifully for my doves--so it would be fine for your pigeon. It has lots of calcium and other goodies in it, too, to get that baby back to nutritional health.


 I think the small independent store had it, or something similar - thanks. As posted upthread, currently I'm giving fine oyster shell grit, which was the ONLY grit at PetsMart. 

I may end up going to the place 35 miles south of me, though; I just got off the phone with the guy who owns it, and he flies racing birds & it sounds like he knows his stuff. The dogs have agility class in that general direction tomorrow, so if I can get done with work early enough (he's only open until 4), I may take the bird down there and have him take a look.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> You know, there's really no need to take that tone. Especially since if you'd bothered to READ WHAT I'VE POSTED, you'd find that I quite clearly stated in my original post, as well as in at least one subsequent post, that the bird's been fed.  My concern isn't getting the bird FED, it's getting a pigeon-specific food & getting appropriate grit.
> 
> So far, the only place even remotely close to me that carries pigeon supplies is the one suggested by the poster who lives near Baltimore; that one's 35 miles from me. They're only open until 4 p.m., but I may be able to get there tomorrow on my way to the dogs' agility practice.


you do not know my tone..it is a text.. the tone was one of calm questioning.. here is a link to the petcos.. google is great.. I called the first one..they said on the phone they had the zupreem(edit supreme) dove food.. 
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&b...bAw&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&ved=0CAQQtgM

I will let this go now as there seems to be resisitance..and Im just not in the mood.. so others can help you out if you need it.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I will let this go now as there seems to be resisitance..and Im just not in the mood.. so others can help you out if you need it.


 When you ask "Has this bird even been fed?" etc, and toss in exclamation points, that's NOT "calm questioning", sorry. And again, IF you had actually bothered to read my original post, you'd have already known the answer. 

Any "resistance" on my part is, pure and simple, down to being annoyed at several people apparently jumping to conclusions that I'm too stupid to ask employees about what's carried in stores, don't know how to use Google, would let an animal go unfed for more than 24 hours, etc etc. In all fairness, I realize y'all don't know me, and there ARE people that stupid out there - but it doesn't make it any less irritating, especially when I'm already concerned about the bird and feeling frustrated after driving and calling around and not being able to find what it needs. 

Regarding the PetCo in question: If by "the first one", you mean the one on York Road, that's the one I went to yesterday. When I asked, after looking at the shelves in both the pet bird and wild bird sections & coming up dry, I was told by two separate employees that they don't carry ANY dove or pigeon food. 

After you posted this morning, I called them, and was told "We don't carry any Zupreem products, sorry." I was already late for work, so I dropped it at that point. (Oh, and the employee I got that time thought I was asking for "Zupreem DOG food"... even when I spelled D-O-V-E, she really didn't get what I was asking about.) 

Being the persistent sort, I called back while I was out on my work route, & said "Look, somebody else called here and was told you had it on the shelf." The answer THIS time (from a different person) was "We don't carry any Zupreem products, but we do have Kaytee dove food in the wild bird section - I think we just got it back in today." He also knew exactly what I meant when I asked about the Kaytee Hi-Cal grit. 

Stopped in while on my work route, and picked up a bag of "Kaytee Supreme Daily Blend Dove Food" & a container of the grit. Turns out the guy I got on the phone the second time had a customer at a different branch who regularly bought the food, so he was the only damn person in the store who even knew they carried it. I still had trouble finding it; it was on the bottom shelf, TURNED SIDEWAYS and shoved back, so that you couldn't read anything on the bag... lordy.  

Bird is holding steady; no better, no worse, and still eating and drinking. S/he tends to perk up if stroked, and eats/drinks if I hold a bowl with one hand and stroke the feathers with the other. Just barely starting to use the foot; s/he balances by putting curled toes down & propping the backs of the toes on the ground. 
My sister crapped out on me yesterday, so I've still not been able to get a photo of the foot.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> When you ask "Has this bird even been fed?" etc, and toss in exclamation points, that's NOT "calm questioning", sorry. And again, IF you had actually bothered to read my original post, you'd have already known the answer.
> 
> Any "resistance" on my part is, pure and simple, down to being annoyed at several people apparently jumping to conclusions that I'm too stupid to ask employees about what's carried in stores, don't know how to use Google, would let an animal go unfed for more than 24 hours, etc etc. In all fairness, I realize y'all don't know me, and there ARE people that stupid out there - but it doesn't make it any less irritating, especially when I'm already concerned about the bird and feeling frustrated after driving and calling around and not being able to find what it needs.
> 
> ...


I hope you didn't take any of my own posts as jumping down your throat. I don't really feel that Spirit wings was being super kind to you.

Awesome--you've got her on exactly the diet and grit I give my doves.  This fattened up my Edmund nicely in a few months after I got him (rescue,) so i think it'll work for your little one. You might treat her with raw unsalted Spanish peanuts once in a while too if you feel like she's up for it. 
Is she still fluffed up all of the time? This can indicate fever or generally feeling crappy, so you really need to watch. 
What are the poops looking like?
Today is the foot swollen/hot/anything weird besides painful? 
Anything else odd to note?


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> Is she still fluffed up all of the time? This can indicate fever or generally feeling crappy, so you really need to watch.
> What are the poops looking like?
> Today is the foot swollen/hot/anything weird besides painful?
> Anything else odd to note?



S/he - if I had to guess, I'd guess the bird is female - is still fluffed up a lot, yeah. I think it's a combo of the foot hurting and wanting to keep warm due to being so thin. 
S/he smooths down when out of the cage, being handled, or being petted, though, and is "BAR" at those times... even "groomed" my thumb where I have a bandaid on. 

Poops are looking better - a lot more formed, although still not what I'd consider normal. 

Foot looks the same; it's been swollen on the bottom all along. No signs of infection though - it's soft tissue swelling, not abcess-type swelling - and as I mentioned s/he's starting to use it more. I'm continuing to wash it with warm water once or twice a day. 

(BTW... I should probably explain that I'm experienced in assessing injuries - I'm certified as a vet assistant and have worked for two vet offices. Not to mention I have a brown belt in judo, worked at a stable & trail rode when I was younger, have competed in agility with my dogs for 15 years, and have nutjob dogs who bash themselves up playing and hunting... IOW I've dealt with plenty of injuries personally.) 

Getting back to my foundling... S/he likes the food, and a couple of hours ago ate without my encouragement, first from the food dish and then from the grit dish, and is drinking the water-with-antibiotic with no problems. I won't say s/he's on the mend, though, unless and until I see some weight gain.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> S/he - if I had to guess, I'd guess the bird is female - is still fluffed up a lot, yeah. I think it's a combo of the foot hurting and wanting to keep warm due to being so thin.
> S/he smooths down when out of the cage, being handled, or being petted, though, and is "BAR" at those times... even "groomed" my thumb where I have a bandaid on.
> 
> Poops are looking better - a lot more formed, although still not what I'd consider normal.
> ...


Her feet should feel like they are about 99 to 102 degrees F. When my baby dove was sick (bacterial infection,) her feet were always cold and clammy--feeling just like my hands when I have a fever and flu. Just another thing for you to watch for. 

Glad to hear you have a lot of wound experience. This will help you out a lot. 

I wonder if adding salt to the baths for the foot would be of any help or be soothing. 

Weight gain can take some time, but her wanting the dove food is a great sign.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Thought I'd give an update:

Birdie (not giving a real name until I'm 100% sure she's going to make it) is holding steady. 

Still eating food/grit and drinking well. 
I chopped up an egg for the dogs yesterday, and tried giving Birdie a few bits of the white - she looked at it funny, but later it was all eaten up. 
(I have a friend who keeps a couple of free-range chickens, gets more eggs than he can use, and gives me a dozen every few weeks. I hardboil them and give them to the dogs once or twice a week.)

Poops look nearly normal, and she's beginning to put some weight on the foot and use it with the toes uncurled. 

I let her out of the cage for a while yesterday, and she hop-hobbled around the kitchen hunting down all the bits of seed that have fallen here and there. The cats ignored her; the terrier was fascinated and followed her around staring, but not with the intensity he uses for rodents. At one point he looked at me sideways and very gently put his front teeth on her shoulder; he may have been "grooming", but I grabbed him by the scruff and said "leave it!" anyway. He backed right off and resumed just watching.
She was utterly unfazed by any of this, incidentally. 

Before anybody goes spare about the dog being in the room - he's very well-trained. In addition to having numerous titles in NADAC agility, he's been taught to hold a point and wait for permission to chase squirrels etc. when we're out hiking, as well as having a very strong "Leave it". So I had, and have, no doubt that I can keep him from doing the bird any harm in a controlled situation. And since whether or not I keep her long-term depends on the dogs learning that she's family & therefore off-limits, I need to start introducing them to her. 

The only negative to report is that she's not yet gained any weight back that I can tell, and doesn't seem to be able to do more in terms of flying than a controlled downwards flutter. I think it's because she's so damn thin & has so little in the way of breast muscle at the moment. 

She also needs a bath, but wasn't interested in the pie tin of water I put out on the floor while she was exploring the kitchen.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. Glad you finally found some Kaytee Dove Mix. They don't always have it at our Petco, either; it's hit and miss. It will take this bird a while to gain weight back if it was really thin, several weeks at least.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Sounds like you're doing all the right things. Glad you finally found some Kaytee Dove Mix. They don't always have it at our Petco, either; it's hit and miss. It will take this bird a while to gain weight back if it was really thin, several weeks at least.



Re the Petco, I'm just glad they had *somebody* on staff who not only knew they carry it, but had enough brains to say "Well we don't carry that brand, but how about this one?" when I asked for the wrong thing due to Spirit Wing's bad spelling. I'd still like to have a word with whoever shelved it, though.  

Re gaining back weight, it's helpful to know it's normal for it to take awhile. And yeah, she was really starved; "emaciated" wouldn't be too strong a word to describe her condition. When you look at her from the right angle, or FEEL her, the breastbone is sticking out sharply... like the keel of a boat. 

Interesting side note: I scanned through the lost-and-found ads on our local Craigslist yesterday. I found a notice from about two weeks ago from someone who had a "semi-tame" white pigeon turn up in their back yard & stick around... area about 8 miles north of the park where I found Birdie. HMMMMM.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Re the Petco, I'm just glad they had *somebody* on staff who not only knew they carry it, but had enough brains to say "Well we don't carry that brand, but how about this one?" when I asked for the wrong thing due to Spirit Wing's bad spelling. I'd still like to have a word with whoever shelved it, though.
> 
> Re gaining back weight, it's helpful to know it's normal for it to take awhile. And yeah, she was really starved; "emaciated" wouldn't be too strong a word to describe her condition. When you look at her from the right angle, or FEEL her, the breastbone is sticking out sharply... like the keel of a boat.
> 
> Interesting side note: I scanned through the lost-and-found ads on our local Craigslist yesterday. I found a notice from about two weeks ago from someone who had a "semi-tame" white pigeon turn up in their back yard & stick around... area about 8 miles north of the park where I found Birdie. HMMMMM.




you know!, I was only trying to help you.... I work with animals so the "zupreem" is stuck in my head allot which sounds allot like supreme it is pretty easy to say the wrong one when you thinking about the other.... I know your type from a mile away.. resistant.. that is why no one has told you to not let your dog put teeth on your bird.. Im not even going to go there.. because it won't help. you have already warned people in your post.. so that tells allot IMO.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> you know!, I was only trying to help you.... I work with animals so the "zupreem" is stuck in my head allot which sounds allot like supreme it is pretty easy to say the wrong one when you thinking about the other.... I know your type from a mile away.. resistant.. that is why no one has told you to not let your dog put teeth on your bird.. Im not even going to go there.. because it won't help. you have already warned people in your post.. so that tells allot IMO.


 You don't know "my type" at all.  And there's no need to get a chip on your shoulder about the spelling thing; it was just a calm observation of the fact that your effort would have been more immediately helpful if you'd given me the product's name correctly. The fact of the matter is that while I appreciate you were trying to help, the fact that you didn't double-check to make sure you'd given me the correct product name DID delay me getting it. 
You're also so busy seeing "resistance" and so forth, you utterly miss that I'm primarily blaming the store personnel. 
The "eyeroll" was at the way some eejit had shelved the product, not at your mistake. 

As far as "reisistant".... if the shoe fits, wear it. I understand how easy it is to make a mistake like that - but if I'd been the one to make it, I'd've been apologizing, not blaming the person I was attempting to help for not being able to decode what I meant. I also would have specified exactly which store I was talking about, not just said "the one in your area". Then again, I've got 30-odd years of experience in doing stuff like that professionally. 

Re the dog, I'm sure plenty of people would tell me "don't let your dog put teeth on the bird"; those would be people who've never encountered someone who has 40 years of experience in training dogs, and in keeping a multi-species household. More to the point, those would be people who fail to read WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE, and instead jump to incorrect conclusions (in your case, not for the first time). Last but not least, they'd probably also be people who haven't ever met a dog trained past a few basic commands. 

Since you somehow missed all the important points in the interaction I described between the dog and the bird, let me repeat them: 
A, a dog putting *front* teeth very gently against another animal isn't aggressive or prey behaviour; front teeth is grooming.
B, I was supervising very closely. That ought to be obvious from the fact that I said I took hold of the dog's scruff as soon as he touched the bird. 
C, you obviously missed the point that my response to the action was to let the dog know "no teeth" is the rule, regardless of how benign the intent may be. 

Dogs are capable of distinguishing between appropriate prey and off-limits animals; they're also capable of distinguishing between animals that are part of the pack and strangers. The only way to attain that is by controlled introductions, and by establishing what the boundaries of the interaction are.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I understand... IMO I do not introduce my dog to pray animals.. esp certain breeds.. to each their own. and sorry about the zupreme..it was not the spelling, it is a different feed and I always meant the supreme.. I have a foster cockatiel so that name was in my head.. you did not need a name to find dove mix feed..I agree it is hard to find in that store. I was just trying to be of service. you got defensive because I asked a question.. I do not always read the whole thread and a simple yes would of been fine. Im not going to tell you how to raise your pigeon with your dogs and cats...I just have seen too many mishaps with well experienced and non, come through the vet hospital I have worked at for 20 years..and they made the same mistakes.. thought they had a handle on it. my pointer is meant to point birds..so Im not going to put him through having a bird right under his nose and can not do what he was bred for.. just is not fair to him.. he "leaves" things alone if I ask that of him, but they are things like balls, or garbage... and it does come in handy if they come across a pray animal you do not want them to get after..but I do not do it on purpose., but that is me and it could be all wrong.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> You don't know "my type" at all.  And there's no need to get a chip on your shoulder about the spelling thing; it was just a calm observation of the fact that your effort would have been more immediately helpful if you'd given me the product's name correctly. The fact of the matter is that it DID delay me getting the correct food, and might have prevented me finding it if I hadn't been persistent.
> 
> Re the dog, I'm sure plenty of people would tell me "don't let your dog put teeth on the bird"; those would be people who've never encountered someone who has 40 years of experience in training dogs, and in keeping a multi-species household... or perhaps simply haven't ever met a dog who's decently trained.
> 
> ...


my only concern with the teeth is that dog/cat/predator saliva itself is dangerous to birds (even just on the feathers because they preen themselves.) It can cause infections. 
I didn't mention anything because it appeared that you had things under control as far as preventing it from happening ever again. I think Spirit Wings is going too far with being mad at you.


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## CarloSantoro (Jun 22, 2011)

by the picture im 99% sure that is a white dove. by the looks of its face and feet it has to be a dove


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Libis said:


> my only concern with the teeth is that dog/cat/predator saliva itself is dangerous to birds (even just on the feathers because they preen themselves.) It can cause infections.
> I didn't mention anything because it appeared that you had things under control as far as preventing it from happening ever again. I think Spirit Wings is going too far with being mad at you.


Im not mad at anyone libis.. I asked a question and she got miffed I did not read.. that is all... a yes would of been just fine.. tone of a text is hard to get through.. guess I need to use the smile faces more.. like now.., And I really do not want her thread to get off track for her bird.. so lets just drop my name and I will not post here any longer ... too distracting..


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I understand... IMO I do not introduce my dog to pray animals.. esp certain breeds.. to each their own. and sorry about the zupreme..it was not the spelling, it is a different feed and I always meant the supreme.. I have a foster cockatiel so that name was in my head.. you did not need a name to find dove mix feed..I agree it is hard to find in that store. I was just trying to be of service.. you got defensive because I asked a question.. I do not always read the whole thread and a simple yes would of been fine. Im not going to tell you how to raise your pigeon with your dogs and cats...I just have seen to many mishaps with well experienced and non come through the vet hospital I have worked at for 20 years..and they made the same mistakes.. thought they had a handle on it.. my pointer is meant to point birds..so Im not going to put him through having a bird right under his nose and can not do what he was bred for.. just is not fair to him.. he "leaves" things alone if I ask that of him but they are things like balls, or garbage... and it does come in handy if they come across a pray animal you do not want them to get after..but I do not do it on purpose., but that is me and it could be all wrong.


 Re not reading the whole thread.... I think anyone but a saint (and a saint I ain't!) would react badly to being asked "Has this bird even been fed?", with exclamation points tossed in, when they'd quite clearly stated that it had. I'm sorry, but if you jump into the middle of a conversation and don't get your facts straight, you really can't blame people for reacting when you jump to a wrong conclusion, and the wrong conclusion leads you to jump on the _person. _  Anyway, I think we've beat that subject to death... let's drop it.

Re the ZuPreem, I know it's another brand... that's why I got the "We don't carry any ZuPreem products" response on my second contact with the store. Like I said, I understand the mistake, I just felt it was uncalled-for when you started saying I was being "resistant" etc when I detailed the problems I was having with the store. 
And again, I really do appreciate that you called them - especially because once you verified it was the same store, I had ammunition to call BACK, which is when I finally got the Clerk With A Clue.  

Re working in a vet hospital.... did you miss where I said I'm a certified vet assistant, and have worked in vet hospitals? I've also worked as a pack dogwalker (I was doing it LOOOONG before anybody ever heard of Cesar Milan) and have done stable work. Currently, I'm sub-contracting to a petsitting/dog walking agency. We take care of dogs, cats, and exotics, including birds. One of our regular clients has a Amazon, another a Sulpher-Crested Cockatoo, a third has a Cockatiel. And I've had birds of my own in the past, as well as a wide variety of cage pets. 

Believe me, I don't take interactions between species for granted, or even interactions between certain breeds of dog for granted. Nor do I take my dogs' training for granted. I, too, have known of far too many tragedies that happened because people got complacent, or had a moment's carelessness... I'm sure I could match you horror story for horror story, more's the pity. 

Cats and terriers killing small pets; larger dogs killing or maiming smaller ones and cats; same-sex Pit Bulls or other dog-aggressive breeds left unattended and maiming or killing each other; two dogs left unattended together with choke collars on, and while playing one dog gets her jaw caught in the other's collar... the owner came home to one dog strangled to death, and the other with a shattered jaw. 

To me, the worst stories involve kids... the two that make me the maddest and saddest are the toddler who got his face half ripped off because his parents assumed their elderly dog would always tolerate having toys taken out of her mouth, and being crawled on; and the infant who was killed because his father had trained the family Pit Bull to grab hold and hang on to a tire swing in the back yard.... and then left the dog alone with the baby in one of those wind-up swings.  And then there's the nine-year-old who strangled to death because the family Golden Retriever hadn't been taught not to play tug with people's clothing, and thought her long scarf was a grand toy. 

Getting back to my household & dogs: 
I 100% supervise all interactions between the dogs & cats and other species. I don't worry about interactions between the cats & dogs when I'm HOME, other than telling the dogs to knock it off if they start getting carried away with teasing, and vice versa. But regardless of the fact that my cats are super dog-savvy, and my dogs like the cats, I never leave the dogs loose in the house when I'm _not_ home. 

Both dogs have been learning right from the get-go that the bird IN the cage is off-limits, but I'm keeping it on top of the refrigerator for the time being unless I'm in the room. If I keep Birdie long-term, I'll build or buy her something larger and more secure. 

Re my level of training expertise... 

The dog I did the initial out-of-cage intro with is half working-line Jack Russell Terrier, half Zwergpinscher (European-style working Miniature Pinscher). I'm his fourth owner. When I got him three years ago, he was supposedly an "untrainable chronic runaway". He now walks off leash where appropriate, and will stop, hold a point and wait for a release when he sees a squirrel or rabbit. He has an excellent "Leave it!", "Drop it!", and "Give" - he will even let me take mice out of his mouth when he catches and kills them. 
He doesn't go through doors, over curbs, or get out of my car without permission. He knows a number of tricks, and - last but far from least - has 36 titles in NADAC agility (the sport where dogs do obstacle courses off-leash, guided by verbal and body signals from the handler). 
So yes, I'm confident in my ability to read his body language correctly and have verbal control, as well as in my ability to teach him to behave appropriately with the bird while under direct supervision. The fact that Birdie is utterly unafraid of the dogs is a plus, since it decreases interest in chasing, even for fun. 

The other dog is part Spitz and part small sighthound (Italian Grey or small Whippet). She's been with me less than a year, while I can read her very very well, and she's very responsive to training, we don't have the same level of relationship yet. Which is why she won't get intro'd to the bird out of cage until the older dog has a full grasp of boundaries , and she'll be on leash when I do it. 

And no matter how long and how well they're trained to accept the bird, I will NEVER, EVER, *EVER *leave them _unattended_ together. He's still a working terrier, and she's still part sighthound. (They're both SMALL dogs, btw - he's 12" tall and weighs 14.75 lbs; she's 16" tall and weighs 14.2 lbs.)


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

CarloSantoro said:


> by the picture im 99% sure that is a white dove. by the looks of its face and feet it has to be a dove


Actually, I'm very sure at this point that she's a young white pigeon. I'll have to get some more current pictures up - her cere has been getting darker as her health slowly improves, and it's definitely a pigeon's cere.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> my only concern with the teeth is that dog/cat/predator saliva itself is dangerous to birds (even just on the feathers because they preen themselves.) It can cause infections.


 What sort of infections? If I understand you correctly, you're saying the bird could ingest the saliva while preening, and get an intestinal infection from bacteria in the saliva? 

That's good to know, because the terrier likes to be Doctor Dog, and groom, tend injuries and/or clean up other animals - he's forever washing out cat ears and the like - and I might have let him lick the bird when they know each other better. And my Siamese grooms dogs, so I wouldn't put it past him to try to give a bird a scrub. 

Re yesterday's interaction, there wasn't any saliva involved, really... he bared his front teeth and "flea-nibbled". It's a grooming-type action, but he WAS testing what he's allowed to do (that's why the sideways look at me when he did it).


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you know everything.. now Iam just wondering why you are even on here..?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> What sort of infections? If I understand you correctly, you're saying the bird could ingest the saliva while preening, and get an intestinal infection from bacteria in the saliva?
> 
> That's good to know, because the terrier likes to be Doctor Dog, and groom, tend injuries and/or clean up other animals - he's forever washing out cat ears and the like - and I might have let him lick the bird when they know each other better. And my Siamese grooms dogs, so I wouldn't put it past him to try to give a bird a scrub.
> 
> Re yesterday's interaction, there wasn't any saliva involved, really... he bared his front teeth and "flea-nibbled". It's a grooming-type action, but he WAS testing what he's allowed to do (that's why the sideways look at me when he did it).


I think it's fatal septicemia, which usually occurs in the bloodstream with a bite, but because there is quite a bit of bacteria in predator mouths (including our own,) it is best to keep saliva away from the birds. I guess it's more of a protective thing than anything, although things enter our bloodstream through the mucous membranes in our mouth/nose--don't see how it couldn't with a bird.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> you know everything.. now Iam just wondering why you are even on here..?


 Sigh. You are just DETERMINED to put the worst possible interpretation on everything, aren't you?


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> I think it's fatal septicemia, which usually occurs in the bloodstream with a bite, but because there is quite a bit of bacteria in predator mouths (including our own,) it is best to keep saliva away from the birds. I guess it's more of a protective thing than anything, although things enter our bloodstream through the mucous membranes in our mouth/nose--don't see how it couldn't with a bird.


 Yeah, septicemia is specifically a bacterial infection in the blood. I can't think that would occur by oral ingestion, to be honest. Still, better to err on the side of caution. 

BTW, the dog's interest is definitely in cleanup/nursing; I let them interact again today, and he never tried to put his mouth on her, but sniffed her over, nosed her gently and *wanted* to lick her sore foot & (this is a bit gross) clean her rear end. To be clear, he didn't DO it, just indicated he wanted to.
He's a funny little guy - you'd expect that kind of "mothering" behaviour from a female dog, not a male. 

Speaking of the foot, I finally managed to get some decent pictures of the injury: 



















You can see how there's bruising & a split on the top, with soft tissue damage on the underside - it looks like she was perching or holding on to something, and the foot got slammed into something or badly pinched. The bruising in the picture is about 1/3 or so less than it was when I found her. 

Also got some pictures that give a better idea of size, as well as showing the darkening cere; they're not great since she was perching on my left hand, held out, while I took pictures with the right. Re size, I have very small hands (I'm 5' 1"), so she probably looks bigger than she is. 



















Oh, and I discovered yesterday the poor thing's got feather lice, on top of everything else! The closest store to me has a pyrethrin-based lice-and-mite spray, but I'm hesitant to use it since she's in poor condition.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I think I would still do what I can to get rid of the little parasitic monsters. They will sap her energy too. Just be sure none gets in her eyes or is inhaled. 
A lot of people here use a dust form instead. 
Or you might try a bath with 2 tablespoons Borax per gallon of water. I heard that keeps off mites. Make sure if you bathe her it is in the morning on a warm day so she can get dry quickly enough. Do not blow dry.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> I think I would still do what I can to get rid of the little parasitic monsters. They will sap her energy too. Just be sure none gets in her eyes or is inhaled.
> A lot of people here use a dust form instead.
> Or you might try a bath with 2 tablespoons Borax per gallon of water. I heard that keeps off mites. Make sure if you bathe her it is in the morning on a warm day so she can get dry quickly enough. Do not blow dry.


 Yeah, it's kind of a balancing act between wanting to get rid of the lice so they don't pull her down, and not wanting to stress her system with the treatment. She's finally starting to feel better - lots of energy this a.m., and I think she's finally begun to regain weight - so my plan is to wait another day or so & then treat the lice. It's not a major infestation, thank goodness. 
Re blow-drying, no worries!  I don't even own a blow-dryer - too busy in the mornings feeding & medicating animals (& in the last couple of years,my elderly dad as well) to fuss with hair. Trying to picture the result of pointing a blow-dryer at a bird, and it's not pretty....

Thanks for the tip on the Borax - I'll keep it in mind for future prevention.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> As Spirit Wings said - *Petco here keeps the dove mix with the wild seed also.*
> And it still wouldn't hurt to put a dash of salt and sugar in his water to give him a boost in case his body is trying to fight off something.


2 pages of BS could have probably been avoided if this was read. It was mentioned a couple times that Dove Food is kept with the Wild Seed.
I would add some extra Safflower Seed to help put weight on. 
Also, has the bird been wormed? (or de-wormed as some say)


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> 2 pages of BS could have probably been avoided if this was read. It was mentioned a couple times that Dove Food is kept with the Wild Seed.


 Sorry, that dog won't hunt. If you look at the progress of the thread, you'll see that by the first time it was mentioned, I'd already checked that section of the store, and not found it because it was out of stock. 



Msfreebird said:


> I would add some extra Safflower Seed to help put weight on.


 Thanks for the tip- I'll see if I can get some in the next day or three. 



Msfreebird said:


> Also, has the bird been wormed? (or de-wormed as some say)


 Not yet. I'm hoping to get to the feed store/pigeon supply store tomorrow (again, it's 30 miles away & closes at 4), and I'm sure he can advise me as to what's appropriate. If I don't manage to get there, I'll be near another feed store on Friday (traveling to a competition with the dogs) and will see what they have.
Speaking of the dogs, I let the younger dog be in the room - on leash & closely supervised- when Birdie was out of the cage yesterday. Somewhat to my surprise, she was far more interested in helping eat the bird seed scattered on the chair than in the bird.  Equally surprising, Birdie (I have got to give her a real name soon!) couldn't have cared less. Sam would have given a good old peck on the nose and/or a wing swat if a dog or cat had tried to share his lunch. 

I've noticed another behavior shift in the bird, btw; she's now "lying down" - settling down comfortably with her feet tucked under her - as it gets towards bedtime. I'm taking it as a good sign that she's more physically comfortable & the foot is hurting less.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Sorry, that dog won't hunt. If you look at the progress of the thread, you'll see that by the first time it was mentioned, I'd already checked that section of the store, and not found it because it was out of stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do be sure that she does not eat any seed with dog/cat saliva on it.

If nothing else, the lying down shows that she's comfortable about her surroundings.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Initially I thought the bird was a white feral pigeon, but the last images seem to look like a white dove. I am now confused myself.

Very few pet stores carry pigeon food. You can make your own by mixing wild bird seeds and adding peas to up the content. Wild bird seed is probably around 8-9% so it is not enough protein. I think you should up the protein to around 12%. The dove mixture is probably around 11%. Pigeon milk is probably around close to 13% protein.

One more thing most people here want to help else they wont respond to your post. Just try not to encounter Sky_tx else both of you might be on a pissing match. He is very knowledgeable pigeonwise, but he has the ability to insult you first if you are a beginner. In that note Spirit_wings is an angel. And I don't believe she was trying to piss you off. In fact when I was reading your posts I thought the bird has not eaten yet myself because you can't find food. I think that was how Spirit_wings impression was, too.

But we love animals and I prefer to think that we are all on the same page.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

RodSD said:


> Initially I thought the bird was a white feral pigeon, but the last images seem to look like a white dove. I am now confused myself.


 It's definitely a white pigeon, but not feral; s/he is far too tame. She's not afraid of humans or dogs, likes to be scritched, sits on my arm and rides around, and eats out of my hand.
Also, as I mentioned in my first post, she knew what a cage was, and saw it as a safe place - the day I found her, she eagerly jumped out of my hands and into the dog crate in the back of the car. A wild-born bird wouldn't have done that. 



RodSD said:


> In fact when I was reading your posts I thought the bird has not eaten yet myself because you can't find food. I think that was how Spirit_wings impression was, too. But we love animals and I prefer to think that we are all on the same page.


 Here's EXACTLY what I said in my first post: 
"(I) Took <the bird> home, dug out an old parrot cage from storage, gave it some bird seed and water; it ate & drank a lot, then settled right down." 
Despite the bad grammar (that sentence actually says I fed the _cage_ ), I think it's crystal clear that the very first thing I did was offer food and water, and that the bird accepted it. Doesn't really matter - and I'd prefer to talk about animals - but if people keep bringing it up, I'll right on pointing out that the only way anyone could have thought I didn't feed her was by not bothering to follow the conversation. 

Getting back to the real subject of the thread, my still-nameless bird continues to improve. Poops totally normal now, energy growing, and so forth. 
Today she started two new behaviours during her out-of-cage time; one, preening and cleaning all her feathers, and two, stretching out the leg with the bad foot, and at the same time stretching out the wing on that side. 
While she stretched, I noticed a small gap in the downy feathers that are normally covered by the wing. I took a look, and discovered an almost-healed shallow puncture/skin tear in the area. 
My bet's that she escaped a fox - not only does it look like a tooth mark, but the spacing to the foot injury would be consistent with a fox grabbing at her, and not quite getting a grip on anything but the foot. That scenario would also explain the feathers that are missing just above her tail. 

Makes me wonder how long she was getting around with the injuries; they had to have happened at least a day or two before I found her, maybe longer. In any case, it's even less surprising that she was so weak at first.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> Do be sure that she does not eat any seed with dog/cat saliva on it.
> If nothing else, the lying down shows that she's comfortable about her surroundings.


 No worries, anything Cerys got her mouth or tongue on, she ate, the silly creature. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, since I've had past dogs that ate horse feed. 

An interesting/amusing behaviour - Birdie didn't mind having seed snitched off of the chair she was sitting on yesterday. Today, however, she was sitting on top of the cage, with a bit of seed in front of her, while I changed out the lining. Cenau (the terrier) stood up and sniffed at the seed bowl, and she whacked him on the nose with her wing. Being a sensible little guy, he got the message and retreated. 
Guess the chair is neutral territory, but the cage isn't.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> Today she started two new behaviours during her out-of-cage time; one, preening and cleaning all her feathers, and two, stretching out the leg with the bad foot, and at the same time stretching out the wing on that side.
> While she stretched, I noticed a small gap in the downy feathers that are normally covered by the wing. I took a look, and discovered an almost-healed shallow puncture/skin tear in the area.
> My bet's that she escaped a fox - not only does it look like a tooth mark, but the spacing to the foot injury would be consistent with a fox grabbing at her, and not quite getting a grip on anything but the foot. That scenario would also explain the feathers that are missing just above her tail.
> 
> Makes me wonder how long she was getting around with the injuries; they had to have happened at least a day or two before I found her, maybe longer. In any case, it's even less surprising that she was so weak at first.


She really should have had antibiotics in that case.  It's too bad you didn't get a better look that wound at the start.

Experienced people--the window for antibiotics to work has slipped my mind. Is it too late now?

*edit--looking back, you did mention once that you bought antibiotic, but never (that I can see with my sleepy eyes this morning) mentioned it after that. Was it used?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Libis said:


> She really should have had antibiotics in that case.  It's too bad you didn't get a better look that wound at the start.
> 
> Experienced people--the window for antibiotics to work has slipped my mind. Is it too late now?
> 
> *edit--looking back, you did mention once that you bought antibiotic, but never (that I can see with my sleepy eyes this morning) mentioned it after that. Was it used?


She posted on June 20th that she started oral antibiotics........good thing! Don't know how long she gave them though.
Still looks like a Dove to me, but.........


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> She posted on June 20th that she started oral antibiotics........good thing! Don't know how long she gave them though.
> Still looks like a Dove to me, but.........


Glad to hear that I just missed that.

I know. She even said that the bird was 11-12 in or so--which is ringneck dove size. 
Maybe she's just skinny and has a pretty sleek conformation though?

Did that bird ever start cooing by the way?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That bird was probably some caged pet white pigeon then. Punctured wounds on these birds are usually birds of prey injuries.

I still don't know whether that is a white pigeon or a white dove though. What is the size of this bird? Is it like those in the street/feral size? I don't remember whether you mentioned the size before.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> She really should have had antibiotics in that case.  It's too bad you didn't get a better look that wound at the start.


 I know. It's really hidden deep in the feathers, there was no blood anywhere on her, and she's never reacted with pain when I've handled her (other than when I washed her foot the first couple of days), but I'm still kicking myself that I missed it.



Libis said:


> *edit--looking back, you did mention once that you bought antibiotic, but never (that I can see with my sleepy eyes this morning) mentioned it after that. Was it used?


 Yep. I gave her the full course of it.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> Glad to hear that I just missed that.
> 
> I know. She even said that the bird was 11-12 in or so--which is ringneck dove size.
> Maybe she's just skinny and has a pretty sleek conformation though?
> ...


 Re size - I was guesstimating on the 11-12", and inaccurate. I measured her with my hands a little while ago; the span of my right hand is exactly 7.5", and from tip of beak to tip of tail is around two handspans. So she's actually more in the 14-15" range. And she does have what I'd call a sleek conformation - even when she fills out, I think she's going to be on the long & slender side. 

Re cooing -nary a peep yet. She's been completely silent. 



RodSD said:


> That bird was probably some caged pet white pigeon then. Punctured wounds on these birds are usually birds of prey injuries.


 A pet, or used in a "dove release" by someone who was being cheap and unethical, and used young birds instead of properly trained adults. And yeah, the injury could also be from a raptor, if it missed the strike and a talon raked across her back. 




RodSD said:


> I still don't know whether that is a white pigeon or a white dove though. What is the size of this bird? Is it like those in the street/feral size? I don't remember whether you mentioned the size before.


 I'm 99.9% sure she's a pigeon. As mentioned above, she's around 14" long - and while she's on the dainty side, she's not that much smaller than my previous pet pigeon. Plus, she has more of a cere than I see in pictures of ringnecks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looks like a pigeon to me. Some are just slighter.


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