# West Nile Virus



## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

I've read on a lot of websites that pigeons can't contract West Nile virus. But yesterday when reading I noticed my city and the one next door had bird and pigeon extermination department for West Nile. This is definetely a concern since I own poultry, and plan on having a little pidgey.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

surfingpigeon said:


> I've read on a lot of websites that pigeons can't contract West Nile virus. But yesterday when reading I noticed my city and the one next door had bird and pigeon extermination department for West Nile. This is definetely a concern since I own poultry, and plan on having a little pidgey.


Hi James,

That wouldn't be SF would it? I'm curious as I live in Bay Area, which two 
cities that would be?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I've felt some concern about this, too. From everything I've read, pigeons aren't susceptible. So far I haven't heard of anyone's birds being destroyed because of West Nile, but your post concerns me. As FP asked, what city?


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## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi James,
> 
> That wouldn't be SF would it? I'm curious as I live in Bay Area, which two
> cities that would be?


Yes, it's near SF. Concord and Hayward to be exact.


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

I'm hearing rumblings about it here in FL too.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

SP, was what you read about a government agency or was it an exterminator company? Because it could be that exterminators will use West Nile as an excuse to encourage people to hire them to eradicate feral pigeons.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> SP, was what you read about a government agency or was it an exterminator company? Because it could be that exterminators will use West Nile as an excuse to encourage people to hire them to eradicate feral pigeons.


Hi folks,

In addition to Birdmom's points above, I was wondering what if any screening
or testing would be done? Also, who, if done, would oversee the screening?
Can you point us to a link where the original article was?


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## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

*links*

Hi Guys. I found a few links that I saw the other day:

http://www.nsc.org/ehc/ew/disaster/westnile.htm

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:126239704&refid=ink_tptd_mag&skeyword=&teaser=

http://www.mamashealth.com/infect/west.asp

I learned that pigeons and a lot of wild birds, can contract the virus! It's very scary, and very disappointing. I hope I don't have to get rid of my birds


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

Pigeons can definitely contract the virus and although it seems to be more of a concern in the northern part of the state, I still worry a little. When Homie comes in the morning I leave the window open and invariably a mosquito or two will come in as well. The during the day, I basically have a closed system where the mosquito can bite either me, the dog, Homie or chicken... or worse, several of us. I'm not too worried about getting sick, WN is usually only a problem for the very young,, elderly or those with a compromised immune system and I don't fit into any of those categories. BUT I still don't want to be exposed or have a client that comes here to the studio be exposed. It's a concern.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi SP,

Thanks for those links, very informative. I'm wondering if you remember which
local newspaper, if you read it, you saw the original post in? Or mag?

Thanks!

PS--Photokev, you could always get some Malathion cologne


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

Would it help with the chicks? hehe


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

photokev said:


> Would it help with the chicks? hehe



Might drop them dead in their tracks......ouch


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## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

It was in the Contra Costa (County) Times. I was more concerned about my friends at the park, than rather contracting the virus.

The virus is also a concern to me as well since I do have a weak immune system. If someone has a cold in a room I'm in, I'll get it. No doubt.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

One other thought on this, which didn't occur to me until after these posts: I had a conversation with one of my vets last year when my goose was sick with an unknown ailment. She didn't suspect West Nile but did mention we wouldn't want to test for it because testing would raise red flags with the state. I believe that if a lab receives a sample and it's positive for West Nile, they have to report it to the appropriate agencies. I suspect there is the potential for the state to come in and destroy one's birds if they are found to be reservoirs for the virus. I must stress again that I have NOT heard of this happening with this disease, but I think we should be very careful about testing.


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

hmmm, I have to disagree with you BM, I think testing is a good idea. I don't understand why a medical professional wouldn't want to test for something (especially this serious) on the chance it might be positive and have to report it. That scares me actually. Maybe if we pretend it isn't happening it'll go away?

Isn't that how SARS started in China?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Photokev and all .. if you had been here in California and lived through the terror and death toll due to Exotic Newcastle Disease, you would understand better what BirdMom and her vet were getting at. Though West Nile Virus is significantly different than Exotic Newcastle Disease as are the primary vectors of transmission of the two viruses, it doesn't take a lot to get a "witch hunt" going. It was a horrifying time here in Southern California when the "death squads" would just arrive and summarily kill anything with feathers that was on your property. Birds were rarely tested to see if they actually had END .. it was enough to be within a 1 mile radius of a known case .. your birds were then killed by being thrown into a CO2 drum pretty much right before your eyes. I was fortunate not to experience this myself as Orange County was largely spared of END .. some friends in Riverside and San Diego County were not so lucky.

When I can get a few minutes, I will try to find you some very good links about WNV and END as well and specifically related to pigeons. 

Meanwhile, this is probably the most comprehensive site as far as having all articles, links, statistics, regarding END: http://www.cocka2.com/newcastle/

There is a Yahoogroups list dedicated to WNV at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WNV-info/

I strongly encourage everyone here to really get up to speed on WNV on your own and not just depend upon "casual" information on message boards and lists. The http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ is a good place to start .. search on West Nile Virus, and have "fun" reading.

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thank you, Terry--that's exactly what I was getting at and the Exotic Newcastle fiasco was on my mind. Thanks so much for the info; I'll check out those links. 

As to not wanting to test, I stand my ground. I see little to gain and a lot to lose from having my birds tested. So far as I know, there's no treatment for the disease. Pigeons can usually fight it off, so I'm not worried about it making them sick, though it is a risk to my geese. As to protecting people, I don't think destroying anyone's pet birds is going to do that when there are so many wild birds around as potential reservoirs. But as Terry said, it won't take much to get a witch hunt going.


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

Hey BM,
I respect your opinion but still differ with it. We can do that!
I think that a kneejerk reaction and indiscriminant killing of anything is wrong, no excuse. However, i feel that if you have a sick bird that displays symptoms consistent with WNV, it's the right thing to have it tested. I'd rather know than not. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it here in Florida because of the abundence of mosquitos. I'd hate to have a kid get sick and die when I could have stopped it.

Just my opinion.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I'd have to say that I wouldn't test for WNV even if it where a possibility.

There would be little potential "good" and a lot of potential harm coming out of that situation.


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## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

I would test my bird(s). I'm thinking about doing that actually myself. I love birds, but I can't let my family become infected for something I can prevent.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

But how can you prevent it by testing your birds? People are just as likely to get it from mosquitoes biting the wild birds in your area as from your domestic birds. And if labs are required to report positive test results to appropriate state agencies, what do you think will happen? They won't quarantine your birds, they will destroy them. You prevent it by staying indoors at dawn and dusk when mosquitoes are most active, using insect repellent and otherwise being cautious.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

You'd have to run an ELISA (enzyme-linked immunobsorbant assay) either with your own materials or obtain the test from PanBio Limited. Well, frankly I don't think running your own test is realistic (that is unless your the PI of your own lab).

I also don't think the method of killing large numbers of animals over a disease which has mosquito as a vector is effective. 

Let's say one of your birds tested positive for WNV, so you euthanized them. Now everyone in the neighborhood feels warm and fuzzy because they think that the birds were killed for their safety. The wild birds still act as a reservoir for WNV which was transferred to your birds via mosquito. The mosquitos are still out there biting birds and people....Has anything changed for the better because your birds were euthanized?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, we have a color coded national security system which has been such a 
success we no longer have to worry about terrorism...

I was taught as a kid to "duck and cover" for a nuclear attack....

Fox news is "fair and balanced"......

I could go on and on; I think it's all a balancing act and the real "ballast" is self
education about the issues and the "solutions" being offered. 

two cents,

fp


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

"But how can you prevent it by testing your birds?"

Hey Guys,
It's a question of proximity. A wild bird doesn't live in the same house with you. If I had a bird with WNV and small children or elderly grandparents, the bird would have to go. 

I understand what your saying, If you have a bird that contracts WNV it'll probably be OK in the long run so why make a big deal out of it and bring down the wrath of the state on you and your flock. By that logic we really shouldn't be worrying at all because even most people shake it off. I read somewhere that 30% of the people that get it don't even show symptoms. 

But, you're also making an assumption that the sick bird won't pass the virus on to you, your family or the baby next door.

I would just have a hard time knowing that my flock had VNW and I did nothing about it and a few weeks later the little boy next door caught it and got really sick or died. I guess nobody would know but me so I could just keep my mouth shut. Or, mentally, I could blame it on a wild bird because there's really no way of knowing. But it's that nagging doubt I would have BECAUSE there's no way of knowing that would haunt me.

I guess I'm just really sensitive to the issue because there is NO WAY to avoid mosquitoes here. You walk to your car, one flies in with you and bites your ankle. Come inside and a couple follow you in, have a doggie door - another point of entry. And the things people say regarding avoiding getting bit aren't 100% effective. The deal with staying inside during dawn and dusk, besides being impossible to do, assumes mosquitoes only bite during that time. They're MOST ACTIVE then, but bite all night long. 

Where I'm going with this is that you can limit your exposure but can't eliminate the possibility of getting bit. With your birds, you can't say with 100% certainty that your sick bird won't be bitten and transfer the disease. To me, it just isn't worth the risk.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Kevin,

I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it. But, if you check out these previous threads regarding Exotic Newcastle Disease, you may understand better why Terry, Birdmom and others feel the way they do:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=2809

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=3078

Linda


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

*Fox news is "fair and balanced"......* LOL!!

They have been talking about the West Niles sparking up again here is AZ since it is getting hot out. They drilled it into our heads last year to get rid of any standing water but that did not seem to matter. I think this year I am going to try hanging garlic everywhere. Maybe that will keep the little Vampires away. Unless of course anyone has any better ideas.

I'm not too crazy about the fogging deal they do. They fog at night and I wonder, can that stuff make my pijs ill since they are caged outside?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kippy--do you know what they're fogging with??

If there using malathion....it'll keep the pigeon flies away


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Welcome*

As you see I live in the hot bed. Yes, West Nile is here and active. We have a death count going on. People, horses and birds have died in the hundreds. I personaly wittnessed its' affecton both people and birds. It is similiar to PVM. Only way to tell the the differnce is by testing. But they don't test that often. They just count the dead birds by phone or internet. Once you get it and live, you still have problems. Same with birds. We lost many birds. Flocks of crows down to a few pairs. So I called the vector control and they told me to cover the birds at evening and take cover off late morning. No holes over the size of a nickel. Or then the nasty little bugs can get in and cause trouble. Hate the smell of Deet, but it's my new prefume. I spray trees and dump water out of containers daily. Go to West Nile and checkout whats happening.


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