# History Recalls... (Trafalgar Square)



## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

True enough--London is evicting its pigeons from Trafalgar Square. The article is posted today at: http://www.milwpc.com/ 

We had first heard of this from a London citizen that posted here some months ago.

Today, the powers that be in London (the local mayor, to be exact), are sick of the sight of pigeons. But they made ready use of them in two World Wars...

In fact, thousands of pigeons flew in WWI and WWII, on behalf of allied troops. These birds were exemplary in their dedication to their missions and collectively saved thousands of human lives--many of them english.

Clearly, the mayor of London was not present
on the morning of October 18, 1943, when "GI Joe" arrived in the nick of time with a message: CANCEL THE BOMBING RAID!

It happened that during the night, the target for that bombing run was captured by allied troops. As the planes warmed up for take off, Joe arrived with the news. The mission was halted! GI Joe saved an estimated one thousand allied soldiers lives. For his valor, "Joe" was awarded the Dicken Medal--the animal equivalent of the Victoria Cross.

Well, pigeon buddies, that was yesterday. What have you done for us today?

The pigeons will be displaced by additional commerce in the square--entertainers and such. Who knows, maybe they'll add video arcades; that would cheese it up real nice! 

How small some of us have become, and how shallow our memories. 

--Ray


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## S. Munks (Jan 19, 2001)

I am really interested in your comments. I am a history graduate and am hoping to write a book on the history of pigeons in general and on the "sport" of pigeon fancying.

I have never kept pigeons or for that matter known anyone who has but I think the birds are beautiful and am fascinated by the whole topic.

If you or anyone out there can give me any pointers I would be very grateful.

Just one more thing - I'm sure the pigeon will still be around long after the mayor of London has disappeared.


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## ONEEYEPIGEON (Oct 27, 2000)

I did a little Research on our little friend And i ran across this History about this remarkable bird thought i would share it with you.
The Urban Wildlife Society's 
gee whiz animal quiz
What bird has been a domesticated friend to man longer than any other? 
What animal has helped save so many people that you might not exist had one of your ancestors not been saved by one of them? 
What animal is the traditional symbol of love and peace? (Be specific.) 
What animals can routinely find their way home from strange places over hundreds or even thousands of miles away? 
What winged creature can think abstractly, form concepts, and commit images to memory many times faster than human beings? 
What birds did Queen Victoria raise and love? 
What animal formed a basis for Charles Darwin’s studies and later became his loving friends? 
What animals did Picasso love so much he named his daughter after them? 
What animal has Jimmy Smits grown to love, personally, because of the character he plays in the hit TV show NYPD Blue? 
What kind of dove did Noah release from the ark? (Be specific) 
What bird was used to take aerial photography? 
What animal did Lockheed Aircraft Company use to send messages between facilities across Los Angeles in order to avoid traffic? 
What bird has no sound for pain – and therefore suffers and dies in silence? 
What animal has been revered for 12,000 years and, only in the last century, has been severely abused by man? 
What bird brings life to an often otherwise bleak inner-city landscape? 
What non-native bird inhabits areas without displacing native species? 
What animal was used in Desert Storm to send messages that otherwise would not have gotten through due to intense radio jamming? 
What was a favorite animal of the famous artists Picasso, Monet and Matisse? 
What animals are encouraged to provide a fertilizer of choice for famous brands of champagne? 
What is the common name for the Rock Dove? 
What word in the dictionary means the same as the word "dove"? 
What bird is falsely accused of spreading many diseases to people? 
What birds feed milk to their babies? 
What birds solved incredibly complex puzzles to become one of the two top birdbrains of England? 
What bird is commonly sacrificed as nothing more than live targets placed in the sights at the end of a shotgun? 
What bird adorns foods, beauty products, a famous bank, and credit cards worldwide? (Be specific) 
What is one member of the dinosaur family who is still alive and well today? 
Unscramble the following word to find the answer to these questions: GINEPO 
(c) D.L. Roth, 10 March, 1997
Click here for explanations – but don’t cheat! 
Click on one of the following underscored titles to go to that home page: 

ANIMALS | PIGEONS | URBAN WILDLIFE SOCIETY | AVIAN AFFAIRS COALITION 
WILDLIFE


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Thanks to intrepid souls like Walt Parrish of Bunkie, Louisiana, sources for quality information on pigeons never run dry! 

Reference is made--in the answers section of the quiz--to a video: "Oldest Feathered Friend", narrated by NYPD Blue's Jimmy Smits.
The video can be found at: http://www.paccomfilms.com/films/oldest.html 

Previews are available if you've downloaded Quick Time. I'm sold--ordered my copy this morning!

This web site, compliments of Walt, is a mother lode of information for pigeon lovers!

Both fanciers and activists will like this site.

Walt, you did us proud!

--Ray


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## ONEEYEPIGEON (Oct 27, 2000)

RAY LIKE YOU IM VERY DEDICATED TO PIGEONS AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THEM ,SO YOU ARE VERY WELCOME AND THANK YOU FOR THE NICE WORDS.YOUR FRIEND WALT.


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## lukekerttu (Jan 9, 2001)

i heard about the pigeons in london and it makes me mad the pigeons were ther first why can't they coexsist th've been doing it this long 

------------------
luke


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## mark.henry (Jan 15, 2001)

Dear Ray i understand your love of Pigeons and i know of how they were used in both wars, however to place street pigeons in the same bracket as a racing pigeon is a mistake. I do belive that these street pigeons should be destroyed if they are causing the area to be fouled up, remember that the cost of cleaning theses areas up would be massive. Racing Pigeons on the other hand, are vaccinated and are given other relevent treatments for any illness'es that they may pickup. Sorry but thats how it is.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Would it be the world was so simple, so black and white as the distinction you make--it is not. 

All pigeons "home". All pigeons have that wonderful and perplexing navigational system.
It is their gift--not ours. 

Racing pigeons are groomed and coached to enhance those traits to suit human purposes.
In my reading of carrier pigeons used in two world wars, no mention is made of speed--no mention at all. "Reliability" was the issue.

Many racing/homing pigeons fall under the category of columba livia (or feral pigeon).
It's all the same gene pool. I can no more condone abusing these animals for not being drafted into service, than I could condone the abuse of wild horses.

History also shows that dovecotes (stocked with feral rock doves, ie., pigeons) were key sustanance in medieval England and France. We're talking tens of millions of pigeons helping to sustain millions of British and French lives over the course of four hundred years. Messaging aside, they were an asset.

Whenever we've called upon pigeons, they've humbly given their best. We've been friends a long time. And just lately we've decided, who needs them! Well how convenient--throw away life!

Is this London's idea of wildlife management?

Here in the states we have the wonderful distinction of bedeviling the poor Passenger Pigeon to extinction. At that time, the masses saw no real value in that gentle bird. Again, throw away life...My home state of Wisconsin was a major player in that disgrace. And today, the Wisconsin DNR wants to pass law to legalize the hunting of Mourning Doves! Do you know why? Because there's plenty of them?! The masses haven't learned a damned thing...All life should be respected--even food stock.

Read "The Silent Sky", mark.henry. See the video, "Oldest Feathered Friend", then tell me your judgement hasn't been tempered somewhat. And at any rate, you will know far and away more than most people about the importance of moral and intelligent wildlife management. 

How it is is often how we make it.

--Ray

PS. Your good manners will always be in style.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Londoners, countrymen and pigeon lovers as far away as Australia are outraged by the proposed, brutal eviction of pigeons from Trafalgar Square.

Local hero seeks--and gets--injunction against action to remove pigeons.

Remarkable demonstration and mass support wins the day for pigeons!

Moral, responsible wildlife management is called for!

This article is well worth saving! Read it now at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000140326706927&rtmo=weM5iwob&atmo=weM5iwob&pg=/et/01/1/23/npige23.html 

Bloody Well Right!









--Ray


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## ONEEYEPIGEON (Oct 27, 2000)

This page Requested By RAY.So here Ray keep up the good work! Walt, Pigeon food ban is bird-brained idea, says Banks
By Richard Alleyne 






Greater London Authority


Trafalgar Square's pigeons win in high court [20 Oct '00] - People for Ethical Treatment of Animals [PETA]


PETA




KEN LIVINGSTONE and Tony Banks set feathers flying yesterday over the contentious issue of pigeon-feeding in Trafalgar Square. 
While Mr Livingstone, the Mayor of London, seemed to reserve his affection strictly for newts, Mr Banks, the former sports minister, took a more inclusive view of the animal kingdom. Defying a new edict forbidding the feeding of birds in the square, Mr Banks, whose father used to race pigeons, joined other animal rights activists in throwing seed to the flocks surrounding Nelson's Column. 

Without regard to his spotless navy overcoat, he then encouraged the birds to perch on his head and shoulders as he made a verbal attack on the mayor. Smilingly wryly, he said: "Pigeons don't **** on their friends. That's something Ken Livingstone ought to learn. It is time Mr Livingstone stopped acting in such an arrogant manner. His decision is misjudged. A war on pigeons is not something we need. I'm sure the mayor has got better things to do with his time." 

Mr Banks threw down the gauntlet after Mr Livingstone, well known for his pet newts, launched his crusade against the birds, which he described as "rats with wings". In an attempt to clear the square of thousands of the birds and the inevitable droppings, he made it illegal for tourists to feed the pigeons under the Greater London Authority's new litter regulations. He also refused to renew the licence of Bernard Raynor to sell feed to tourists, even though it had been a family business for half a century. 

Yesterday Mr Raynor obtained an injunction against the ban at the High Court and will be allowed to continue trading until another hearing on Feb 7. Mr Banks said: "He has been earning his living here for over 50 years and the pigeons have been here even longer. The birds date back as far as Roman times. Some Londoners love the pigeons, some Londoners call them rats on wings, I happen to love them and suspect I am not alone." 

Mr Banks was joined by demonstrators from the animal rights group People for Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). It was its American branch that criticised Mr Livingstone in Washington last week, describing him as a "pigeon murderer". 

Yesterday Andrew Butler, a PETA spokesman, threatened to take Mr Livingstone to court for cruelty to animals and branded him "arrogant and selfish". He said: "He knew full well that the action he took would result in the starvation of the birds. He is guilty of gross cruelty to animals. It is a selfish and mean-spirited act that will harm London's reputation. We have had calls from as far afield as Australia begging us not to let the famous pigeons die out." 

Mr Butler has put forward alternatives to cutting off the birds' food supply, including setting up feeding stations in other parts of London, the gradual reduction of food over two years and feeding them a special contraceptive pill. 

Daphne Palmer, 75, who has been feeding the pigeons for years, said she would never "vote Ken" again because of what he had done. Mrs Palmer, from Hornsey, north London, said: "He is an absolute disgrace. I've written several letters to him but he has not replied to one of them. These birds are not a threat to anybody. If something is alive we have no right to kill it." 

But one Londoner was not so sympathetic. Michelle Bourke, 31, said she thought the pigeons were "dirty and full of lice". She said: "I feel sorry for Mr Raynor but I don't think it's a good idea to encourage them. Having so many of them living in such close quarters is a breeding ground for disease." 

A spokesman for the Natural History Museum said: "Pigeons are born survivors. I doubt very much they will die out just because people stop feeding them on Trafalgar Square." 

A spokesman for the GLA yesterday denied there was a ban on members of the public feeding the pigeons. She said: "Only those feeding in bulk will be affected by this law. Not members of the public. "We only want to move the pigeons on from Trafalgar Square as part of a longer term plan to pedestrianise the area and hold cultural events." 


19 January 2001: [International] Pigeon food protester tips water over Livingstone
7 January 2001: Blair urged to return Livingstone to fold







Son to write Carman's biography


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## mark.henry (Jan 15, 2001)

Dear RaynJudy, having just read your reply to the topic of pigeons i feel thet i must correct you on one fatal mistake that you have both made with reference to the pigeons used in both wars. They were in fact racing pigeons donated to the RAF to help with the war effort, these birds were bred for thier 'SPEED' and the ability to to find their way home, these birds were taken from the allotments and back gardens all over the UK, so as you can see they were not homing pigeons but racing pigeons which as you well know there is a vast difference. if you would like further information on this or any other subject of pigeon racing the are two very good sites for you to visit, these are http//www.pigeonracing.com this is the home of the ROYAL PIGEON RACING ASSOCIATION, or you could try http//www.boglinmarsh.com this is another very good site giving you access to all of the very best of pigeons.

yours in sport mark.henry


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Clearly, we are reading different literature.
And there may be some regional differences in vernacular (see "cere").

My comments with regard to the "gene pool" hold. It is a matter of grooming and training to enhance certain traits in the birds. That is the major distinction. And, mark.henry, if they didn't "home", they wouldn't be too useful, would they? I mean, racing off into the wild blue yonder, to alight wherever whimsey takes them... Nope, they won't award medals for that. 

By analogy, an old plug is as much a horse as a prized Arabian; albeit, the Arabian is certainly more valuable. (Tread carefully, Judy's trained thirteen blue ribbon horses...) 

I know my little pigeon has zero street value. But we have thousands of dollars in parrots here, and far and away, I favor my pigeon! He has earned that admiration. And he grows dearer to me with the passage of time. 

The feral pigeon, like my Bernie, has stolen my heart and become my cause. My mindset will never be that of a pure racing enthusiast. That's just how it is.

If you can bring to this forum the insight of a pure racing enthusiast, we'll be richer for knowing you. And I'll follow your contributions closely.

If you're here to fence with me--bring it on!
But cross your T's and dot your I's. And get a dictionary.









Thanks for providing the additional web sites. I'll check them out!

It's been fun jousting with you. Now, don't be a stranger!

--Ray 

[This message has been edited by raynjudy (edited 01-30-2001).]


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## ONEEYEPIGEON (Oct 27, 2000)

Damn Ray your good







, And Judy grad's on the horses. Walt


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## mark.henry (Jan 15, 2001)

Dear Ray, just read your message and no i am not here to 'fence' with you as you put it, however if you do want to learn more about pigeons (racing) i shall teach you all that i know. But please dont even attempt to draw me into a slanging match over pigeons because that is one you will never win and as the home page says it's a place for PIGEON LOVERS and not for people who want to dominate this site with their small mindedness.

ya all have a nice day now you hear.
mark.henry


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Crap! I did so look forward to a slanging match!

I think you're hung up on semantics. I think
"carrier", "homing" and "racing" are terms that are becoming somewhat interchangeable
nowadays.

Tell me, what is the difference between the terms "engine" and "motor". I really would like to know.

See excerpt below, compliments of the Smithsonian...

***********

"Cher Ami" was a registered Black Check Cock carrier
pigeon, one of 600 birds owned and flown by the U.S. Army Signal Corps in
France during World War I.
He delivered 12 important messages within the American sector at Verdun,
France. On his last mission, "Cher Ami," shot through the breast by enemy
fire, managed to return to his loft. A message capsule was found dangling
from the ligaments of one of his legs that also had been shattered by enemy
fire. The message he carried was from Major Whittlesey's "Lost Battalion" of
the 77th Infantry Division that had been isolated from other American forces.
Just a few hours after the message was received, 194 survivors of the battalion
were safe behind American lines .
"Cher Ami" was awarded the French "Croix de Guerre" with Palm for his
heroic service between the forts of Verdun. He died in 1919 as a result of his
battle wounds.

**********

But I do understand the distinction you're making. I just consider it irrelevant to matters of kindness.

With regard to your other comments, see my reply under the "cere/wattle" issue, you so aggressively created.

The ball is yours. Don't drop it.

--Ray

PS. Waaasss Uuuup?


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