# YouTube Closure Thread



## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

_"OK, folks. I think some of us are way over stepping our bounds here with the personal information that was posted. I have removed that information from the posts. 

If the authorities are looking into this situation, then I think it is time to leave any investigating to the professionals.

The video has been removed from Youtube, and that is one of the things that needed to happen.

I am going to close this thread at this point. If anyone wishes to continue discussing this issue, please start a new thread and be very careful about posting personal information or making accusations that would be better left in the hands of law enforcement officials."

Terry _

*

I understand the wisdom of what's being said here, but at the same time I'd like to discuss the question of limits when a crime is being committed. Unless I'm mistaken, the actions depicted in Countryfried's video are felonies. Up until the time that Countryfried stated that he was not directly responsible for the killing, we had no way of knowing who was.

Many of us invested a considerable amount of time and effort in trying to report this video to the proper authorities, as well as to try to determine who the author/perpetrator was.

At moments, this became nearly a collective effort, with information being posted as it was discovered.

At no time was there a call for any sort of collective vengence, and at no time did anyone suggest contacting the person(s) named.

From my point of view, I believe that the members here acted in an extremely responsible manner.

Once again, I'd like to evoke the question of limits - of what's right and what's wrong in response to a given situation.

If the video in question had depicted the deliberate torture of an animal (which is essentially what this video _was_ depicting) would it be sufficient to say "let's report it and leave the rest up to the authorities"?

That, in fact, was what was initially done. (Decent) human nature being what it is, some of us began using basic Internet skill-sets to try and learn more about its author. Some of this information, such as the existence of the eBay account, was invaluable - and was duly forwarded to the FBI agent who had queried me earlier.

Now back to the video and Countyfried's role in it. On one hand, we have graphic evidence of a particularly revolting crime being committed and being publically posted. On the other, we have the person who posted it coming online to claim that he was merely an accessory to the act and not the perpetrator. 

A dialogue began which remained extremely civil. Although I'm not overly optimistic concerning dramatic changes-of-heart, I began to see the interest in our communicating with Countryfried - who, from post to post, began to emerge as an albeit doubtful human being, but a human being just the same.

Perhaps there were things going on in the background between the forum administrators and parties unknown, but I personally found it rather abrupt to lock the thread at the very moment when some aspects of the drama were beginning to resolve themselves in a positive manner.

I'm aware that I'm as much a guest as a member here. This post is not intended to criticise the action taken to terminate the thread as much as to act on the suggestion to continue the discussion _elsewhere_, which is to say here.

Personally, I'm seeking a sort of closure to the past 24-plus hours that we've spent following this issue. The previous thread shut down too abruptly for that to happen for me. There's still much hanging in the air, not the least of which is the way in which we responded to the situation - as well as the manner in which the situation (in the form of Mr. Countryfried) responded to us.

I can't pretend to cover all the bases that were run, but I do feel a need to talk over - since this has been evoked by Terry - the way the game was played, as well as how it might have been played otherwise, if such a thing were indeed possible.

Or whatever. My reasons for opening this thread is more to allow other members to post their own feelings than to respond to anything I've just said, which was essentially rhetorical and driven simply by the need to express it.

Finally, if you feel that enough has already been said conerning this subject, then please feel free _not_ to post! 

I can easily imagine that there are members who feel that any further discussion would be redundant: in that case, nothing speaks louder than a thread with zero replies. 

If that's how it turns out, I promise not to take it personally


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i am glad you are going to follow up on this Ryannon. I was posting a reply to the thread when it became closed. I was going to say Margaret and Renee are right in their statement also, that we can try and change this persons views. 
I would like to know what, if anything, happens with the authorities. I do see why you closed it Terry, would of gone on forever!
Ryannon, i would like to be updated about any progress with the case.
I appreciate all the work you have done, and i know all of us do too! I think posting peoples info was a fine line. I would of probably done the same thing, but a moderator has to moderate stuff, and thats what they did, rightfully. Doesnt mean we dont want to know what happens....
You ROCK Ryannon! Thanks so much!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Amazing detective work.
I personally don't feel that any protection is owed to those that committed this horrible act against an innocent creature. 
I doubt that there is anything we can do or say that will that will cause these individuals to acknowledge wrong doing, shame or a sense or responsibility. 

I hope they are shaking in their boots...they deserve to be.
I want to know what happens too.


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## horsesgot6 (May 30, 2007)

I Think They Are shaking in their boots. I Think This youtube Video was Taken Down By Him Becuse He Know That It Can Be traced And Then To Say His Friends Name Was Not Andy But called Him That A Few Times. I Don't Think he really knows The Power Of Animal Lovers And The People On This Forum. i Didn't Feel he Was really Sorry For What He Did. i Think He Posted It Only in Hopes Of Maybe Stopping Those That Had Sent In The Info To The Law , FBI , And Others To report Him. What They Did Was wrong And I Do Feel They Should have To Pay For It. And The Sad Part Is No Matter how Much They pay This Bird Is No Longer With Use On This World. 
Should He Read This And the law Offices Have Been Using The Youtube , MySpace Acct, And Other Things Online To get people For Crimes even Animal Abuse which Is What You Did. I really do Hope I'm Wrong And You Are Sorry For What You Did But It Still Doesn't Bring The Bird back That Was Killed For FUN. If You Are truely Sorry Turn Yourself In And Go Spend A few Weeks helping Rehab These Birds. By The Why How Would You Feel If Someone killed Your Family Pet. Just Think This Bird Could have Belonged To Someone. Most Are Wild But there Are Pet Pigeon That Do Fly Free.


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

I flagged that video as animal abuse when I saw it I was like: "what the heck?"

I do feel sad about animals that are abused, a show called wild rescues that was on animal planet had some episodes on animals(mostly dogs) that were neglected or mistreated. I felt sorry for them and sometimes think "why would anyone do that to a dog?" my beagle mix Sienna who passed away 3 years ago was adopted from a beagle rescue, we didn't really know anything about her background. Though we think she was abused since she was afraid of people.

I'm against revenge.


I saw a boy kick a pigeon once, I felt sorry for the bird and gave him some pizza crust.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I have a responsibility here on Pigeon-Talk as one of the moderators to do the best I can to see that the Pigeon-Talk board, it's owner, the moderators, and our members are not jeopardized by allowing us to become prime targets for lawsuits in cases such as this video because of the posts it evoked. Posting names, addresses, and phone #'s publicly on the board and pointing the finger at that person placed us in a position where legal action might be brought. What are we all going to do if something like that happens, and Pigeon-Talk has to disappear because the people who own and pay for this site got sued into oblivion?

I, too, commend all those who really went to work to try and figure out who the person is that so cruelly killed the pigeon and then had the audacity to post a video of the crime as if it was some type of slapstick comedy. It's just that the public posting of the information got us into a potentially dangerous legal area, in my opinion, and I felt I had a responsibility to take action to try and avoid any legal problems.

I do hope that this horrible act does not go unpunished, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Cruelty to animals is a misdemeanor in most states in the U.S., and unless there are related charges such as illegal gambling on dog or cock fights or similar which would kick it up to a felony, the perpetrator will get a minimum fine, a slap on the wrist, and that will be it. I'm not saying this is right, but it is reality. A better shot at justice being done would probably be to go after the use of the cross bow in a residential area on top of the animal cruelty .. JMO ..

I do also commend you all for being quite civil in your "discussions" with Countryfried.

I will ask the site owner and administrator if they would care to comment on this situation. Can't say whether they will or they won't.

Terry


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Well personally I would rather see Countryfried step over to our side, and learn to appreciate the creature that he so disliked, than go to jail. I for one did not particularly like pigeons until I met one. 

For me the greatest event that could happen here would be if Countryfried would join us on the forum regularly and become a pigeon advocate. If we are to be the voice for these creatures that can not speak for themselves. Then lets show compassion for a person who has already apologized, and be ready to welcome him as one of us.

If he has not really changed his ways then he will be picked up sooner or later. But if he has, he can use all that energy saving a life instead of taking it. 

I need to add that I didn't see the video, and usually have little compassion for anyone that will hurt an animal. I did report the kids that shot Rainbow, and a gun was removed from their house by the police.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

BirdDogg10 said:


> I flagged that video as animal abuse when I saw it I was like: "what the heck?"
> 
> I do feel sad about animals that are abused, a show called wild rescues that was on animal planet had some episodes on animals(mostly dogs) that were neglected or mistreated. I felt sorry for them and sometimes think "why would anyone do that to a dog?" my beagle mix Sienna who passed away 3 years ago was adopted from a beagle rescue, we didn't really know anything about her background. Though we think she was abused since she was afraid of people.
> 
> ...


I'm against revenge too, Justice is something else.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> I have a responsibility here on Pigeon-Talk as one of the moderators to do the best I can to see that the Pigeon-Talk board, it's owner, the moderators, and our members are not jeopardized by allowing us to become prime targets for lawsuits in cases such as this video because of the posts it evoked. Posting names, addresses, and phone #'s publicly on the board and pointing the finger at that person placed us in a position where legal action might be brought. What are we all going to do if something like that happens, and Pigeon-Talk has to disappear because the people who own and pay for this site got sued into oblivion?
> 
> I, too, commend all those who really went to work to try and figure out who the person is that so cruelly killed the pigeon and then had the audacity to post a video of the crime as if it was some type of slapstick comedy. It's just that the public posting of the information got us into a potentially dangerous legal area, in my opinion, and I felt I had a responsibility to take action to try and avoid any legal problems.
> 
> ...


Terry,
I appreciate your further explanation. Makes sense.
You know... I think we need a new category for advocacy issues such as this one, the smuggled pigeons, the wild parrots in Washington state, Pigeons in New Zealand and the list goes on and on. Do you think that's a possibility?

ps Sorry for the duplicate post. Tried deleting one and it didn't go away.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Ryannon -

That's a sensible and well put together view you expressed. I commend you - and others who were on hand at the time - for your fine efforts in dealing with this issue.

Whatever the discussion involving 'Countryfried' may have arrived at eventually, we won't know, but if that kind of discourse could prompt even one person to consider a different attitude to pigeons then it's well worth it.

John


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

John_D said:


> Whatever the discussion involving 'Countryfried' may have arrived at eventually, we won't know, but if that kind of discourse could prompt even one person to consider a different attitude to pigeons then it's well worth it.
> 
> John


Well, Countryfried wasn't/isn't banned or moderated .. He just seemed to go away when the thread was closed.

Terry


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> Well, Countryfried wasn't/isn't banned or moderated .. He just seemed to go away when the thread was closed.
> 
> Terry


We'll have to check from time to time to see if he's lurking....  

This event was certainly a bonding experience for me: at present, I feel much closer to the forum and its members. It was a pleasure to see people who were often total strangers for one another, working on the same problem with no ego conflicts or petty clashes.

The potential legal problems of posting anyone's personal information on a public forum - along with allegations of criminal activity - are something I think we all understand. It didn't take long for cooler heads to request that said info be removed, and although I didn't track back to see for myself, I presume that this was done.

As for Southernfried and the possibility of an eventual (or instantanous) repentance and/or conversion, it's anyone's guess. This is the Internet, after all, and one never really knows who is really behind a name - let alone a person's degree of honesty, sincerity and even mental stability.

There are manipulative and pathological personalities out there who are so far gone that they don't even know what they've become themselves.

Was/is Mr. Southernfried a member of this sub-species, or simply a garden-variety jerk? Was/is there still some possibility of redemption for someone like him? 

_Or for that matter, for any of us...? _ 

What's certain is that - for whatever reasons or personal motivations - many of us here are actively trying to reduce the heavy footprint that human existence leaves on so much of the planet and so many of its creatures.

That's one more reason why I feel comfortable being among you; the most recent events have only confirmeded that impression....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I really don't know much else that I can say about all of this. I do however, want to opologize for my part in all of this, meaning, the posting of a name/address/phone number of someone who may or may not have anything to do with all of this was wrong. I was totally out of line by doing that. Although, it was info that anyone could have found, we do have PM's for that sort of thing and it was wrong of me to put it in a public forum.
As far as Countryfried is concerned, we'll probably never know, but......it just might be that some of the dialog here got in his head and made him realize what a cruel thing he did. We can hope. Every single person that is cruel to an animal is not lost forever. People CAN change and though we may never know, it just might be, that an impact was made on this person. If not, it's certainly not because no one tried. 
Most of us are adamant about loving all creatures. Everyone doesn't feel that way, but, if what has gone on here has stopped some form of cruelty, then we took a step forward. Countryfried may never "love" pigeons like we do, but who knows, he may never harm another one. You can bet he won't soon forget the emotions that he felt from the members here. 
I don't even know how he found us, but the fact that he DID and was willing to come here and even make hisself known, has to account for something. He COULD have just sat and laughed at us all and joked to his friends about how "silly" we are all over "just a pigeon".......
So, anyway, I, like the rest of you, hope that there will be consequences for the actions, BUT, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am convinced that he closed his You Tube account and registered on this forum because he was aware that we were too close to tracking him down. He was very probably acting on the advice of someone older and wiser. 

That would not not have happened without the brilliant detective work of those members who forced themselves to watch the video, his other videos and to patiently read through all the comments he had received for clues as to his identity...or without riannon's contacts

We should agree, however, to avoid printing names and addresses (including our own) online and instead to invite PMs or e-mails from whoever might need such information as we have on other occasions, then pass the information on privately to members that we know and trust. I also had to delete a post in which I had identified the wrong person.

I am *so* proud to be a member of pigeons.biz, specially when we work together like this.

Cynthia


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

ryannon said:


> ...
> There are manipulative and pathological personalities out there who are so far gone that they don't even know what they've become themselves.
> 
> Was/is Mr. Southernfried a member of this sub-species, or simply a garden-variety jerk? Was/is there still some possibility of redemption for someone like him?
> ...


To me, his opportunity to redeem himself would be commiting himself to intervening on behalf of every threatened, sick, or injured pigeon he encounters from now on. I would say that would go a long way toward gaining him grace.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I'll admit that I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread that was closed. Will do that soon.

But...For future reference in these types of situations, here's a link to a site that will convert YouTube videos into downloadable FLV files:
http://mytube.kuso.cc/~kuso/youtube/

You'd simply paste the URL for the video into the window and right click to download the file to your computer. It downloads with the filename "get_video.htm" which you need to change to an appropriate title with a .flv extension. (Right click over the file on your computer and scroll down to the "rename" option.) You will get a warning about changing file types but ignore it.

This would allow the file to be saved as evidence should the perpetrator remove it from the Web after realizing how much trouble they've brought upon themselves.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the link, amoonswirl!

You Tube must be very busy...another video in my own city was reported to the police

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=enonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED11%20Jan%202008%2009%3A21%3A03%3A460

At the end of that article there is a link to another which is called Airguns You Tube and the law and says:



> YouTube, launched in February 2005, has grown quickly into one of the most popular websites on the internet.
> 
> It has 100 million videos viewed every day and an estimated 72 million individual visitors each month.
> 
> ...



Cynthia


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Thanks for the link, amoonswirl!
> 
> You Tube must be very busy...another video in my own city was reported to the police (edited for length)
> 
> Cynthia


No problem! There are other ways to do this as well, but I think that method is the easiest right now. 

Indeed, looks like YouTube has grown to the point that it needs the help of its community for policing content. They can't possibly review every video that gets posted. But I am sure they have quite a queue of flagged videos to evaluate. I would *not* want that job.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I forgot to congradulate everyone on the great detective work. It is unbelievable how fast that this was taken care of. Things are changing for our animals. It looks as though one man made devise may benifit them too.

Salute to the internet, and our members with computer skills.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Jez -- go out for a nice dinner and a few drinks and look at what I miss  

I really just wanted to thanks Ryannon and everyone who worked this issue so diligently. Sometimes we do let our passions get in the way of thinking through all the consequences of our actions - in that spirit I agree with the removal of all the personal information. But it is that exact passion that motivates us to action... so I guess I'd rather have the passion  The authorities have the information to legally obtain the identities of these "men" and hopefully they will pursue this case. If Countryfried is truly sorry then I can certainly find it in my heart to forgive him -- not forget and certainly don't understand it, but I can forgive. I'm glad to see that he was/is open minded enough to see another point of view and that he seemed willing to discuss it. In fact, I think it took some guts on his part to come here for a discussion. 

In any case, I am, and continue to be, impressed by every member's passion and dedication to protecting the rights and lives of all animals


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Dezirrae said:


> Jez -- go out for a nice dinner and a few drinks and look at what I miss


Well, That'll teach ya!! Never a dull minute around here!!


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## countryfried85 (Jan 11, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> Well, Countryfried wasn't/isn't banned or moderated .. He just seemed to go away when the thread was closed.
> 
> Terry


i didnt go away i work about 85 hours a week on a dairy farm.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI COUNTRYFRIED, I will extend my hand in friendship I have made mistakes in my life time that Iwish I had never done. So I have been there a few times myself. .GEORGE


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

countryfried85 said:


> i didnt go away i work about 85 hours a week on a dairy farm.




Well, well...

I figured we'd see ol' Countryfried again - _One fine day...._


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

george simon said:


> HI COUNTRYFRIED, I will extend my hand in friendship I have made mistakes in my life time that Iwish I had never done. So I have been there a few times myself. .GEORGE



George, thank you for your post and I agree with you. I have made mistakes, or, errors in judgment, too. You know, sometimes the only way some of us learn is through our mistakes - the mistakes may not be deliberate such as this one - but mistakes nonetheless.

I also think we need to keep in mind that people who have grown up on farms and/or work on farms often do not look at wildlife in quite the same way as we do. 

Countryfried, I still don't like what you did but I do appreciate that you are man enough to come on this board and face it head-on.

I am old enough to be your grandmother - so, young man, DON'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS AGAIN!


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## horsesgot6 (May 30, 2007)

Dairy Farm Now That Is Alot Of Work How Many Cows You Milk And How Many Times A day Organic Or Non- Organic. I Live On A Dairy Farm We Just Sold All our Cows This Year Hay Was Way To High And We were organic So Had To Buy the Organic Hay. We Still Have About 9 Dairy Cows We Milk Just For Us And The Calfs We Have.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

george simon said:


> HI COUNTRYFRIED, I will extend my hand in friendship I have made mistakes in my life time that Iwish I had never done. So I have been there a few times myself.
> 
> .GEORGE




For Countryfried's benefit, it might be important to point out that George isn't just _anyone_, and certainly not a softy: the man served in the *Marines*, and once a Marine, always a Marine.

_Semper Fi _ 

Countryfried, when a man like George extends his hand to you, you'd be a fool not to take it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am not convinced that Countryfried85 is as repentant as he makes out. He comes from a decent family, his mother has a responsible role in the community but I think he keeps bad company and is rapidly becoming the black sheep. I guess his fellow Arrowmen call him "Coward who preys on the helpless".

I don't think that he regrets anything except getting tracked down, and we haven't heard a peep from beer drinkin', hell raising friend Andy, who actually shot the poor pigeon! And I would be very surprised if that was the first pigeon they shot.

I have gathered a few Mug Shots of Countryfried85, Andy and the rest of the little gang and would like to send them to be checked against the video/s by anyone who kept them, so that they can cross reference them. Please PM or e-mail me if you can help at all.

Cynthia


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## countryfried85 (Jan 11, 2008)

ryannon said:


> Well, well...
> 
> I figured we'd see ol' Countryfried again - _One fine day...._


yea and that rabbit was hit outside my house by a car......


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

countryfried85 said:


> yea and that rabbit was hit outside my house by a car......


Yeah, poor guy.

Roadkill.

Anyway, you've sure got a _thing_ for dead animals....


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

CF85,

I am glad that you came back to visit us again. Please take your time, read how the members here go out of their way and many times their expense accounts to save the lives of all kinds of animals.

My hand is still extended to you, and I appreciate that you decided to come back to us even though you know that you will carry the cross until the members here accept that you may have a change of heart. 

It was my mother who taught me to respect all living creatures. She would not even let us kill ants. I told you in a e-mail that she use to shoot rabbits, until one that she shot did not die. The rest of her life she was devoted to natures gifts to us. I know that people can have a change of heart, and I so hope that for you.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> yea and that rabbit was hit outside my house by a car......


You mean run down by your buddy Nash, don't you? Have you stopped to think what sort of person would proceed to pick it up, place it on a tractor,photograph it and display it as an avatar?

But,hey! Thanks for confirming your identity. I loved the photo of Easter dinner...what's a nice looking boy like you doing, getting your kicks out of cruelty?

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> I am not convinced that Countryfried85 is as repentant as he makes out. He comes from a decent family, his mother has a responsible role in the community but I think he keeps bad company and is rapidly becoming the black sheep. I guess his fellow Arrowmen call him "Coward who preys on the helpless".
> 
> I don't think that he regrets anything except getting tracked down, and we haven't heard a peep from beer drinkin', hell raising friend Andy, who actually shot the poor pigeon! And I would be very surprised if that was the first pigeon they shot.
> 
> ...


Cynthia,
I am inclined to agree. Even countryfried's signature picture would support that opinion. It doesn't feel to me like he has any kind of respect for living creatures. People don't just change with the snap of a finger, so to speak, unless they are, Walt Disney.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Charis,

Are you trying to tell us that Walt Disney went around shooting pigeons with a crossbow when he was a young man?   

What's for sure is that he had a _thing_ for animals too, but it was a lot more loving than CF's attraction to dead meat...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ryannon said:


> Charis,
> 
> Are you trying to tell us that Walt Disney went around shooting pigeons with a crossbow when he was a young man?
> 
> What's for sure is that he had a _thing_ for animals too, but it was a lot more loving than CF's attraction to dead meat...


No it was an owl that he killed when he was a young boy of 10 or so. The act of killing that owl haunted him his whole life and he felt very guilty. The guilt would wake him up at night and he would see the poor thing, relive it's death taken by his own hand. That owl was the inspiration for his animations and why there were so many owls in his cartoons. 
He never did display dead rabbits, though.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

My mom had pretty much the same story. She said that when she was a little girl about 10 that she use to shoot rabbits and birds. She told me that one time when she went to collect her prize that it was still alive, and with his dying eyes the rabbit asked her why she took his life. 

One of the last pictures that was taken of my mom is of her performing her morning ritual of feeding the birds and rabbits. She was 89, and I think that was the legacy that she left us.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

And Dave Roth used to take pot shots at pigeons...but this is not a lad who felt any remorse after killing the pigeon or after killing anything else for that matter. He thought the whole thing had been such good fun that he wanted to share it with the world and encourage others to do the same.

And he certainly showed no remorse when we commented on You Tube. It was only when he came on this forum and realised how easily we could track him down through his brother that he suddenly "saw things our way".

I would love to think that his remorse was genuine, but he has done nothing to prove that. Even his promise of tracking down other videos that we could take action on was an empty one.

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> And Dave Roth used to take pot shots at pigeons...but this is not a lad who felt any remorse after killing the pigeon or after killing anything else for that matter. He thought the whole thing had been such good fun that he wanted to share it with the world and encourage others to do the same.
> 
> And he certainly showed no remorse when we commented on You Tube. It was only when he came on this forum and realised how easily we could track him down through his brother that he suddenly "saw things our way".
> 
> ...


So right. This kid is no Walt Disney.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Don't believe Countryfried. He's just scared that he was tracked down and caught. He should've known he was going to get caught - he practically gave himself away. Which surprises me. How could anyone be so incredibly stupid?


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

*We also need to bear this in mind...*

My father used to live and work on a farm - his father's farm - and they had pigeons too, but no one felt the need to want to kill them - much less torture them even though they were considered pests.

Usually when someone gets their enjoyments out of torturing animals it's because at one time in their lives they were either sexually or physically abused - usually by someone close to them. I knew of some kids who used to torture animals and it turned out they were either physically or sexually abused.

I wonder... Countryfried... _were you abused too_?


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I must admit that the little rabbit displayed on that tractor doesn't look good at all.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Garye said:


> Don't believe Countryfried. He's just scared that he was tracked down and caught. He should've known he was going to get caught - he practically gave himself away. Which surprises me. How could anyone be so incredibly stupid?


It might be that tiny spark of decency that remains deep down: you _know_ you're doing wrong even if you can't admit to yourself, so you 'arrange' to get caught. It's pretty typical of a lot of criminal behavoir.

What's more, the sort of killing he participated in is a reflection of something that's not right inside: I'd wager that CF is carrying a heavy load, both emotionally and psychologically. Something he can't deal with, let alone think about. 

On one level, posting that video could even be seen as call for help (I can imagine CF laughing when he reads this, but if you could hear it, it would sound pretty hollow).

Unfortunately, people like CF are the last to know what everyone else can see: normal folks don't go around killing animals for fun - and then post videos of their miserable exploits.

As I mentioned to another member in a PM, CF seems to be willfully cultivating the persona of someone born on the wrong end of the gene pool. I wonder if he's ever going to wake up while he still has a chance?


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I have a feeling, Ryannon, that I'm probably right. No one does this kind of cruelty unless he or she was abused. It's too bad he doesn't accept the fact that it happened. It's one step down the road to getting better. But you have to admit it first. Maybe that was what that video was all about. A simple cry for help that he couldn't do any other way.

I feel sorry for him. He should not blame himself for being abused, of course, but he does need help in coming to terms with it. We can only hope that he takes that step and gets counseling for his "past". Ohterwise, it'll always control him.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Enough's enough*

This discussion has become quite personal. I don't think any P-T'ers need to psychoanalyze this person any further. What's done was done and a bunch of P-T'ers continuing to discuss this person's life, habits, hobbies, past upbringing is not productive.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Could we invoke the "if you don't like it, don't read it" clause?

I won't even go into the obvious reasons why this discussion is going on, other than to say that a certain number of perfectly respectable and intelligent members of this forum are interested in contributing to it.

And speaking more personally, I'll thank you not to judge whether what I'm doing here is 'productive' or not.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Wow this has gone to let be pissed about what this guy did... to lets find out this joker is... and then to lets get this guy in to some trouble... to well while he is here lets tell him what is wrong with him... I was pissed but I also wanted to tell him that what he did was wrong and we did that... I lost you guys after that... I think this started out good and then went a little radicle for me... one last thing for the people that are here wanted him to be prosecuted. Does blood call out for blood?


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Okay, perhaps I could have worded that last sentence a bit better. Productive in the sense of promoting the value of these animals' lives. 

I do not have much free time these days to peruse the boards so when a "hot" thread comes up, I usually check it, because I can often learn something new, "meet" a new member, or offer an opinion or advice. However, with dial-up and a crotchety old computer that is beginning to make even sending email painful, I know I miss out on a lot of things here.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

flitsnowzoom said:


> This discussion has become quite personal. I don't think any P-T'ers need to psychoanalyze this person any further. What's done was done and a bunch of P-T'ers continuing to discuss this person's life, habits, hobbies, past upbringing is not productive.



I agree. Enough is enough. This is getting way past the point of what originally started this and has become a personal vendetta. No, I don't have to read what is being said but I will, because I am a member, and I don't like the way this is headed and what it may do to our forum.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> I agree. Enough is enough. This is getting way past the point of what originally started this and has become a personal vendetta. No, I don't have to read what is being said but I will, because I am a member, and I don't like the way this is headed and what it may do to our forum.



That you don't like the way this is headed is clear.

Could you explain "what it may do to our forum"?

There's nothing that's been said here that is not true and/or potentially libelous.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/press/press08.htm


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Time To Take This All Private ..*

Folks,

I'm getting bombarded with private mail from members who feel it is time to let this discussion go.

While I hope that those that so cruelly killed the pigeon get punished to the full extent of the law, I do have to say that the people and the situation have been beaten into the ground here.

Though neither the site owner or the administrator has posted to the board about these threads, a private suggestion to me was to delete them. I did not do that but rather closed the first thread.

I'll leave this one open until I finish reviewing the new posts and then this thread will be closed. That should give anyone who feels the need to post to the thread time to do so. If those who are heavily involved in the situation wish to continue discussing it and working on it, please do so privately.

Terry


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