# 2015 PT Invitational One Loft Race



## ejb3810

Watch for details for the 2015 PT Superior Invitational One Loft Race coming soon.


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## treejumper

*Pt 2015*

Sounds good. One loft Race sounds good, All stays together equal shot.Earl


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## conditionfreak

We already have been running a Pigeon Talk One Loft Race. It is called the "Pigeon Talk Classic". The format has changed a couple of times. But why not just continue with that and host it?

This years event is different than previous years. But during previous years, it was a one loft race.

"Invitational"? Does that mean participation by "individual invite" only? Or, first come, first served?

Does "Superior" come from Lake Superior?


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## ejb3810

It is not my intention to divert participants from the NPR sponsored race or the " another type of one loft race" participants.
Reference to Lake Superior is accurate, as I am located very near the Western tip of Lake Superior in Hermantown, Mn.
I don't envision that a large number of PT members will necessarily be interested in this race ? It will be a team concept. Particulars will be posted within the next week.


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## conditionfreak

I don't think you understood my initial post. There is already a history of a Pigeon Talk one loft race. It was conducted in 2011, 2012 and 2013. Then, no one wanted to host one for 2014, so a make shift continuation of it was done for 2014. Whereupon some of us sent birds to a club where the birds went to different lofts and they are racing them as birds of their own. With the best of those entries, to be declared the 2014 Pigeon Talk Classic champion.

So, you could just host a 2015 Pigeon Talk Classic one loft race, and continue the original history.

Or not. I am sure you will get good participation from this group. However you do it. As long as it isn't too expensive. Expensive means it is "just another one loft race". There are plenty of those around.

Good luck with it all.


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## ejb3810

I need to limit the number of birds which I will accept, so it does not negatively impact the time and management of my own y/b team as well as the one loft race entries.
I have hosted and managed a one loft race in the past, so I realize how much time and resources are involved if done right.
I like the idea of a team concept,as it adds an additional dimension to the competition.
Expense to enter will not be a deterrent in my opinion.


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## ejb3810

The 2015 PT Superior Invitational One Loft Race Series.
This will be a three (3) bird team competition. There will be a race winner diploma for each race. There will be a trophy/plaque for the Champion bird, and there will be a trophy/plaque for the Team Champion Loft. Team Champion will be based on points accumulated be each teams best two (2) birds.
It will be a race within a race format, as the birds will be flown with my team in my club races. It will be a six (6) race series to be flown from mid August 2015 through the month of September 2015. Likely to be 2 @ 126 mi, 2 @ 168 mi and 2 @ 257 mi. Subject to change as my club formally adopts the 2015 y/b race schedule.
It will be limited to 10 teams, and I will not compete personally.
Birds may be returned at race completion for the cost of shipping.
Race entry fee to be $10 per team, and this will largely be to cover PMV vaccination.
Shipping from Mn, Wi, Il,Ia,ND, SD & Nb through Speedee Delivery is roughly 50% of US Postal, just for information purposes. If interested send a private message.


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## ace in the hole

Is there a reason why the Team Champion Loft would not be on accumulated points of all three birds sent?


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## ejb3810

I am attempting to allow for the possibility of one bird getting lost during racing or training, and not have that be a penalty for the team. Anything can happen. For instance loss to a hawk. That does not make it a bad bird, but just a bad luck bird.


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## ejb3810

Ok guys & girls there may be more interest than I thought. I have already had four people contact me with desire to enter, so if you are interested don't wait to make your intentions known or you may be a\on an alternate list.


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## ssyyb2

I seen a weather forecast for that area next year. There is a 99% chance of black rain


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## ejb3810

Just a little update for anyone on the fence. You better send good birds if you enter, as there are some very good breeders in this already. List so far - Ssyybfamloft, doveman2, Ace In The Hole, Crazy Pete, Rolling Thunder & South Town Racers. This should be a very interesting and competitive event!


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## Crazy Pete

Well I wouldn't care if you had a team in the race, I don't think you are the type of person that would cheat.

Wonder if I could buy a teem from South Town Racers as he always seems to kick but on these races. LOL
Dave


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## blongboy

10$ per team? thats it?


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## ejb3810

$10 @ team is correct. I am hosting just for fun, and for the entrants it's for fun and bragging rights.


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## ace in the hole

ejb3810 said:


> $10 @ team is correct. I am hosting just for fun, and for the entrants it's for fun and bragging rights.


There are always people on this forum who are looking for ways to test their birds. Here is just one more chance to do that. For myself, it's just one more way to make the racing season a little more interesting.


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## ejb3810

Now have 7 entries. Room for 3 more. First inquiries are first in.


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## Kastle Loft

Can you tell us a little about your club? Combine. Race conditions? Your record?


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## ejb3810

I am just returning to active race competition after taking a few years off due to health issues. I have raced quite successfully in the past in both o/b and y/b competition. I have had champion old bird, and have won several club futurity races against very good flyers. One of the lofts which flew in my club was Speed Shop Loft, and those that know about racing pigeons know that Mike Schmidt was a force to be reckoned with.
I hosted and managed a one loft race for the Tri State Racing Pigeon Club which had entries from all over the U.S. and Canada.
I have flown with the Tri State Racers, Northern Lakes Combine, Lake Superior Combine, Heartland Federation and Duluth Racing Pigeon Club.
I am currently a member of the Spooner Racing Pigeon Club and am in the process with other of reorganizing the Tri State Racers Club. Should anyone wish personal references I would be happy to provide them.


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## ejb3810

I forgot race conditions. I am in a suburban area but am surrounded by hundreds of acres of woodland. Race course is down Interstate 35, so terrain in flat with woodland, lakes and rivers to the north of Mpls/ St Paul and primarily corn and soybean fields to the south into Iowa.
Young birds fly in autumn, and as we know that is hawk migration time.


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## Lisa_angel

I happened to find a racing pigeon. What do you suggest I do if I tracked down the owner and the owner will not contact me back?


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## ejb3810

I would suggest communication with the ARPU if it is an AU banded bird. They should be able to identify the club the owner is in and assist to make a contact.


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## Lisa_angel

ejb3810 said:


> I would suggest communication with the ARPU if it is an AU banded bird. They should be able to identify the club the owner is in and assist to make a contact.


I did that and that is how I got his name, number and email. I am so sorry I jumped in this thread, I am new and didnt notice there was a section for Racing pigeons, I just saw the thread on them under new posts..

anyway, what would be my next option? The lil guy( or girl) is very sweet and healthy looking. I know nothing about pigeons, just trying to find it a safe home. I am in Georgia.


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## Kastle Loft

There may be others in your area who would take the bird. What part of Georgia? For now, food, water and security are a huge help to the bird. What city is the owner from?


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## Kastle Loft

ejb3810 said:


> I am just returning to active race competition after taking a few years off due to health issues. I have raced quite successfully in the past in both o/b and y/b competition. I have had champion old bird, and have won several club futurity races against very good flyers. One of the lofts which flew in my club was Speed Shop Loft, and those that know about racing pigeons know that Mike Schmidt was a force to be reckoned with.
> I hosted and managed a one loft race for the Tri State Racing Pigeon Club which had entries from all over the U.S. and Canada.
> I have flown with the Tri State Racers, Northern Lakes Combine, Lake Superior Combine, Heartland Federation and Duluth Racing Pigeon Club.
> I am currently a member of the Spooner Racing Pigeon Club and am in the process with other of reorganizing the Tri State Racers Club. Should anyone wish personal references I would be happy to provide them.


Thanks for the info. What are the predominate winds?


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## ejb3810

What part of Georgia are you in, and where in general terms is the band owner located?


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## ejb3810

Predominate winds are w/sw.


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## Lisa_angel

Kastle Loft said:


> There may be others in your area who would take the bird. What part of Georgia? For now, food, water and security are a huge help to the bird. What city is the owner from?


Owner is in Villa Rica, Georgia. I have all his info. I have had it two days now, so I am now "caring" about what happens to it. If this guy has no interest in this sweet bird ( I left voicemails and emailed) then I need to give up on him and find someone who cares. I would, but long story short, will be moving soon and may have to be in apt. temporarily. 

I have it in my garage in a round dog exercise pen with food and water ..It has been there two days and I feel bad! I do sit with it but what about letting it out? What would it do? Would a hawk get it?


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## Lisa_angel

BTW, I am in Acworth, Ga. That is N.Atlanta.


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## Kastle Loft

Email me at [email protected] and I will give you some contact info for flyers in north Atlanta.


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## ejb3810

The North Atlanta Racing Pigeon Club has a web site, and it has a listing of officers with contact details. I would suggest calling the President and explaining the situation. I am sure he will be helpful.


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## Crazy Pete

I give my birds the first PMV at 21 days so you will only have to give them a booster, you are way north so wont give them any thing for pox.
Dave


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## ejb3810

I won't give them pox treatment. I did not treat birds for pox when hosting one loft with birds from all corners of country, and no bird developed pox.


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## ejb3810

This race is filling faster than I thought it would, so if you are interested let me know soon.
Someone has inquired as to when I would like to receive the birds. Ideally I would like to get the birds between mid April and mid May, with the opportunity for replacements til June 1. But I am flexible on this and will work with anyone as to timing. I will also agree to take 4 birds with one as a backup if anyone wishes to approach it that way.
Again I will say that I am not doing this to get birds, and you may get the birds returned at competition end for the cost of shipping. If you do not wish to get the birds back that is fine also.


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## ERIC K

Ed, do you still have space available?


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## ejb3810

There are two spaces yet available.


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## ejb3810

gbhman, I will gladly do that for you. A person never knows what may happen.


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## ejb3810

At this time there are 12 who have asked to be enter, and 1 that wishes to be an alternate.
I will accept all 12 who have asked to participate. If anyone yet has an interest please send a private message, and I will add you to the alternate list.
The competition is several months off, and things do change for people.
I will keep you advised as to any developments as they occur.
Thanks to all for the interest. I look forward to seeing if someone has the truly superior birds.
Entrants: Ssyybfamloft - Doveman 2 - Ace In The Hole - Crazy Pete - Rolling Thunder - South Town Racers - Crazybird - Xue00 - Atlabdi - J W Briggs - FT33 - Blongboy
Alternate: Gbhman


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## blongboy

this should be fun ..thanks to ejb3810 we can all fly from the same loft next year
my best 3 will be there so send yours!!


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## ejb3810

One of the factors that may make this an interesting series is that breeders from a variety of locations will have their birds entered.
Entrants from North Carolina,Georgia,Alabama, Florida, Texas, Wisconsin, Missouri, Nebraska, South Dakota and Oregon are in the competition. I have not identified a state for one of the entrants but will update when I do.


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## Xueoo

I'm from Ca. My PM box is full so couldn't send a message.


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## NYCRacer

Any spaces left? Please pm me


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## ejb3810

The race is full and there are four on a list of alternates.


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## blongboy

this still going?


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## ejb3810

The race is still on. I will accept birds April 15 thru June 1. My club has not adopted a y/b race schedule yet, but we will do so in the near future. Once that is done I will post the official race distances.


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## jwbriggs

Thanks for the update.


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## ssyyb2

ejb3810 said:


> The race is still on. I will accept birds April 15 thru June 1. My club has not adopted a y/b race schedule yet, but we will do so in the near future. Once that is done I will post the official race distances.


Are you a handler for the gold band race?


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## ejb3810

At this point I am not affiliated with any organization having a Gold Band Race. The closest Gold Band Race that I am aware of is sponsored by the Twin Cities Concourse, and we do not fly with them. We will be shipping o/b on the Heartland Federation trailer for separate release for our club, but we will have our own club shipping and race schedule for y/b.
Our shortest distance flyer would be 50 miles long of the Twin City flyers and our longest would be well over 100 miles. I myself would be about 80 to 100 miles long of most of the Twin Cities Concourse flyers.


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## ssyyb2

Yes I remember now  I lost my p as ssword to my old account and it wouldn't email to me so I guess this is my account now


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## ejb3810

Update:
Those originally in the Invitational are: FT33, JWBRIGGS, atlabdi, Xueoo, blongboy, Ssyybramloft, Rolling Thunder, SouthTown, Crazy Pete, Ace, Doveman2 and Crazybird.
Alternates in order - 1) gbhman 2) Eriduardo 3) Formidable1 4) Kalapati
I will verify intent to enter and notify alternates of any openings.

Review of Rules:
Entry fee of $10 per team of 3 birds to cover cost of vaccinations. Ship birds 4/15/2015 through 6/1/2015.
Remaining birds at end of competition can be returned to breeder. Breeder to pay cost to ship them .
Diploma will be awarded to each race winner.
Trophy/Plaque awarded to Champion Bird.
Trophy/Plaque awarded to Champion Breeder.

Champion Bird will be that bird with the highest accumulated point total at the end of the six (6) race series. Points earned as outlined in Sections 4. and 5. of "AU Champion Bird" rules.
Champion Breeder will be that breeder whose top two birds total the highest cumulative "Champion Bird" points. Only the top two birds for each breeder will count toward "Champion Breeder" points.

Race Schedule:
8/8/2015 White Bear Lake, Mn. 126 miles
8/15/2015 Northfield, Mn. 168 miles
8/22/2015 Clear Lake, Ia. 257 miles
8/29/2015 White Bear Lake 126 miles
9/5/2015 Northfield 168 miles
9/12/2015 Clear Lake 257 miles

SEND YOUR BEST TO BEAT THE REST!!


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## Crazy Pete

My birds will be ready, I give PMV vac at 21 days old so you will only have to give the booster.
Dave


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## ejb3810

I have confirmation of intent to enter from all except blongboy and Xueoo. Xueoo and blongboy if you have sent a private message I have some how missed it. Please let me know if you are in or out.


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## blongboy

yes still in


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## ejb3810

We have a full race. I will remind that birds will be accepted starting April 15.


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## ejb3810

Some are ready to send birds, so I will start accepting them now. Let me know when you are shipping them and share with me the tracking number to facilitate my watching for them.
Good luck to all. If you have questions feel free to e-mail or call.


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## ejb3810

To those who have committed to enter this race this is a reminder that on 2/17/2015 I sent you a private message with mail and phone information. If you have lost or deleted that and need it resent to you please advise me.
I have received the entry from Jason Briggs, and I will post a photo of the birds within the next day or 2.
As a reminder. Three bird team with the race record of best two counting toward the team/breeder total. You may send a fourth bird as a potential back up if you so choose. If all four birds are still performing when race season starts you will be asked to nominate which three will count in the scoring. All birds will go to the races.
Jason has sent four birds.


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## ejb3810

*2015 PT Invitational*







A photo of the four birds sent by Jason Briggs.


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## jwbriggs

Looking good, I almost kept the silver one.


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## ejb3810

Rolling Thunder's three birds arrived this morning and look good for all the time in transit.
I will give them a day to settle and post photos for all to see.
Jason Briggs birds are settled nicely and doing fine.


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## jwbriggs

Ed, have you had any more show up?


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## ejb3810

Just the two entrants have birds in the loft thus far, but several more indicate they are shipping soon.


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## blongboy

mine will be coming in a week or 2


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## ejb3810

Ace In The Hole's birds arrived this morning and look to be in good shape.
I will post photos of Ace's birds and Rolling Thunder's birds today or tomorrow as time permits.
There are some very nice birds in so far and looking forward to more to come.


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## The_Rookie

is it to late to join?


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## ejb3810

Rookie, as far as I know all those that committed previously still intend to send birds.
If one of those for some reason can not fulfill the commitment and they post that here or to me with a private message you may be able to enter.
The entrants have until June 1 to get their birds shipped to me as per the rules established.


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## Crazy Pete

It's going to be close but my birds will make it.
Dave


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## ejb3810

Glad to hear that Dave. If someone needs a few days beyond June 1 that is not a problem.
If some know they can't send birds for some reason let me know so others can be advised of openings.


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## blongboy

ejb3810 said:


> Glad to hear that Dave. If someone needs a few days beyond June 1 that is not a problem.
> If some know they can't send birds for some reason let me know so others can be advised of openings.


mine will be very close too ..missed band one of the one i wanted to send so im waiting for this other set to age


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## ejb3810

I picked gbhman's birds up from the PO this morning about 7:00. They are in good condition and settled in well.
This is shaping up to be a colorful race with BB, Bck, Silver, Grizzle, Black and Velvet thus far, and it appears a couple of the entries are Gurnay's I think.
I look forward to getting the rest of the birds, and when it gets to the races seeing if the rest are competitive with the BBs & Bcks?


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## ejb3810

At this point there are 14 birds received and more on the way.


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## blongboy

ejb3810 said:


> At this point there are 14 birds received and more on the way.


thought it was a 3 bird per person ?


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## ejb3810

It was stated that a person could send a 4th bird for back up in case there might be a lost bird etc. So prior to races if an entrant still has 4 he will need to decide which 3 count in the competition. If any that have sent three wish to send an additional bird at this point they may do so.


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## ejb3810

The birds that are in are all doing well. I am hoping for a few more so we will have a good competitive race series. Crazy Pete and blongboy have stated that they are sending birds yet, but I have not heard from several of those who previously committed to the competition.
If there are not several more that come in I could enter a team of my own birds and a team of Nanez Family Loft birds. This would be subject to majority approval by those with birds entered.
We can cross that bridge when and if we come to it.


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## Crazy Pete

My birds will be weaned next week and in the mail the following week.
Dave


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## FT33

I will be shipping my birds this week.


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## ejb3810

Sounds good guys. When you ship forward the tracking number so I can monitor where they are in transit.


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## Crazybird

Mine should be ready to ship early next week.


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## atlabdi

my birds will ready to ship next Wednesday, I want to make sure they are weaned and ready. Is that OK?


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## ejb3810

Next week is fine. For those yet to ship be sure to email me the tracking number once you have it.


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## ejb3810

I picked up blongboy's birds at the PO this morning, and they seem in good shape. This race series will not lack for color variety in the contestant's.


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## ejb3810

*Invitational Race*







Rolling Thunders birds:


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## ejb3810

*Invitational Race*

gbhman's birds:[/ATTACH]


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## ejb3810

*Invitational Race*







Ace In The Hole's birds:


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## ejb3810

*Invitational Race*

blongboy's birds:


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## ejb3810

As you can see my skill as a pigeon photographer leaves much to be desired, but you can see that the birds seem healthy and there is a variety of color. Not just blue bars and blue checks.


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## marcie0105

gbhman said:


> Thanks for the update... yep they all look nice and healthy.


I have been taking care of a homing pigeon from May 14th- 2015 IF 6152, I live in Waterford , MI
I think he maybe from NC can you help?


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## raftree3

marcie0105 said:


> I have been taking care of a homing pigeon from May 14th- 2015 IF 6152, I live in Waterford , MI
> I think he maybe from NC can you help?


There should be some letters on the band as well as 2015 IF 6152. Are the letters NC on the band?


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## raftree3

raftree3 said:


> There should be some letters on the band as well as 2015 IF 6152. Are the letters NC on the band?


Hope the contact info helped. I'm guessing it's probably a pretty nice bird.


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## ejb3810

I picked up FT33's birds from the Post Office this morning, and they seem to be in good shape.
I will post photos within a day or two.


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## ejb3810

I picked up Crazy Pete's birds at the PO this morning. They seem in good shape and are resting after their trip.
I will try to post photos of FT33's and Pete's birds later today or tomorrow.
At this point there are several that committed to compete who have not sent birds. Please send a private message confirming that you will or will not be sending birds.


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## ejb3810

Crazybird has shipped his birds, and I anticipate they will arrive Thursday morning. I will wait to post photos until after they arrive, as I think they will be the last ones coming and I can do the three groups at one time.


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## ejb3810

Spencer "Crazy Bird" has had his birds arrive. They are in pretty good condition considering the time the PO took to transport them. Most times the birds are a day late, but in this case it was two days late.
I will allow them to rest and recuperate today, and I plan to take photos of them and the birds of "Crazy Pete" and "FT33" on Saturday.
There are currently 28 birds in, and I would be surprised if any more are coming. At this point there are 8 lofts with birds in the competition, which is a couple less than anticipated but really no too bad.
Good luck to all!


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## Crazy Pete

I hope you have some of your birds in the competition, if you don't you should.
Dave


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## ejb3810

I hesitate to have any of my birds in this as it just would not seem right to me.
To address the "Avian Influenza" situation. At this time training and racing of pigeons is still allowed in Minnesota. The y/b race schedule will likely be changed to replace the Iowa release stations with a release point within the state of Minnesota. That may result in a slightly shorter long release station.


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## Crazy Pete

Well I think you are an honest person and I wouldn't mind if you had birds in this, does any one with birds in this race object to it?
Dave


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## blongboy

im good with it ..as long as we know which 3 bird it is


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## jwbriggs

Ed, I agree with the others about you flying, enter your birds and enjoy the competition.


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## ejb3810

Guys I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I do not intend to compete for this team/loft competition. It just would not seem right to me. I do not say this because I think my birds are superior to others, and I will be flying these Invitational birds along with my own.
I will show the club race results, and as a separate report the Invitational race report.
I anticipate that things will go well for this Invitational Race Series and if so will most likely offer to host it again next year.
I once hosted/ managed a one-loft race sponsored by the old "Tri State Racing Pigeon Club". We had birds entered from all over the U.S. and Canada. I did not have birds in the race, but other club members did. First place was one by a bird from one of our club members. It was legit, but the result of that was the race flopped the next year. Most of the out of area entrants would not send birds. We ended up cancelling the race in year two, and I sent y/b back to those that had sent them in including ADL and David Clausing.
As you might understand, I have reservations as a result of that experience.


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## blongboy

ejb3810 said:


> Guys I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I do not intend to compete for this team/loft competition. It just would not seem right to me. I do not say this because I think my birds are superior to others, and I will be flying these Invitational birds along with my own.
> I will show the club race results, and as a separate report the Invitational race report.
> I anticipate that things will go well for this Invitational Race Series and if so will most likely offer to host it again next year.
> I once hosted/ managed a one-loft race sponsored by the old "Tri State Racing Pigeon Club". We had birds entered from all over the U.S. and Canada. I did not have birds in the race, but other club members did. First place was one by a bird from one of our club members. It was legit, but the result of that was the race flopped the next year. Most of the out of area entrants would not send birds. We ended up cancelling the race in year two, and I sent y/b back to those that had sent them in including ADL and David Clausing.
> As you might understand, I have reservations as a result of that experience.


i see, but you got to understand that that one loft race is different from this one..this one is just for fun and just to show how everyone bird will do ..not a big money thing 

i still think you should enter 3 bird, itll be funner with more ppls. If it happen that you win all the races, so what? its just for fun ..most likely your bird are better built for your area anyway
i would love to see how my birds do against your too..just my 2 cents


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## ace in the hole

I have an Idea. ejb3810, post your yb band list for us to see. Crazy Pete will pick 3 bird #s and for the fun of it those will be your birds we will be watching.... Fun for all and all for fun.


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## blongboy

ace in the hole said:


> I have an Idea. ejb3810, post your yb band list for us to see. Crazy Pete will pick 3 bird #s and for the fun of it those will be your birds we will be watching.... Fun for all and all for fun.


i agree


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## ejb3810

That suggestion may be a reasonable idea. I have a couple yet to switch over to the y/b section, and after that is done I will list band numbers and colors for consideration.


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## ssyyb2

How did the ones Isend to you breed? Did you get rrs out of them? Did that egg hatch?


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## ejb3810

ssyyb2, they bred fine. That egg did not hatch. We will see how the young do in race season?


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## blongboy

Ejb3810 are ya still good to fly with that flu going around?


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## ejb3810

At this point club and combine racing is on lockdown in Minnesota. This just announced on June 16.
It is allowed to train one's own birds or one loft birds. I will change things to in essence be a 3 race one loft series, and have a race course within the state of Minnesota.
Should these restrictions be lifted before the regularly planned y/b race season, I would continue with the competition as originally outlined.


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## blongboy

ejb3810 said:


> At this point club and combine racing is on lockdown in Minnesota. This just announced on June 16.
> It is allowed to train one's own birds or one loft birds. I will change things to in essence be a 3 race one loft series, and have a race course within the state of Minnesota.
> Should these restrictions be lifted before the regularly planned y/b race season, I would continue with the competition as originally outlined.


yes a buddy from MM also told me that yeasterday


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## ejb3810

*Invitational Race*

FT33 birds just below. Crazybird birds lower left. Crazy Pete birds lower right.


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## Crazy Pete

Did every one else only send 3 birds, thought I red that you could send 4 birds. To be fair if every one else only sent 3 take one of mine out of the race and fly it with your birds, I don't care witch bird you chose.
Dave


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## Crazybird

Think the fourth bird was an option so you can have a backup if one is lost during training. My birds are bottom right so I'm assuming Crazy Pete's are bottom left.


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## ejb3810

The fourth bird was for back up. If all four are remaining at race commencement then the breeder will need to choose which three count for the competition. CrazyPete, gbhman and J.W. Briggs all sent four birds.


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## ssyyb2

It sounds like Minnesota has shut down everything ! The way I read it you can't even let your birds out! That's crazy!


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## ejb3810

Minnesota is not completely shut down. Confirmed directly with the Mn. Animal Health Board, you may train/fly your own birds. Birds can not be comingled at shows, swaps or races.
Since the birds are all housed and managed by me they are considered my own birds for this purpose.


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## Crazy Pete

Crazybird said:


> Think the fourth bird was an option so you can have a backup if one is lost during training. My birds are bottom right so I'm assuming Crazy Pete's are bottom left.


Mine are bottom right you have the big red, can't wait to see it after the molt.
Dave


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## heeler

Crazy Pete said:


> Mine are bottom right you have the big red, can't wait to see it after the molt.
> Dave


Dave, if I may, what is the family of birds you have there and are you interested in selling any of them in the near future since it sounds like the whole country is gonna be shut down?? Thanks Tim.


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## Crazy Pete

heeler said:


> Dave, if I may, what is the family of birds you have there and are you interested in selling any of them in the near future since it sounds like the whole country is gonna be shut down?? Thanks Tim.


My birds are Fabry from McDonough loft and Moser family loft. I don't usually sell birds but if you want I could raise you some young birds.
Dave


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## heeler

Dave, thanks very much and PM sent..........Tim


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## ejb3810

This is a report that I hate to have to make. In the last few days I have had two birds die that were Invitational Race birds. One from sickness and one from an avian predator.
I would propose to the group that I substitute one of my birds for these birds and for any other losses prior to the race series starting.
The team owners have been notified, so if you have not heard from me individually you can assume all of your birds are here.
The sick bird had been in quarantine and was being treated but did not make it.
The rest of the birds are all looking good and doing well.
I will make reports weekly or more frequently if something of note is occurring until more intense training starts. At that point I will report at least as relates to each training toss.
Please let me know your opinion as relates to substituting birds as proposed, and the majority rules. Please make your opinion known, so that I can proceed accordingly.


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## ace in the hole

We all know losses will happen. I would say they should not be replaced with your birds, but you should enter some under your name.


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## Crazy Pete

I agree with ace time for replacement birds is over, if some one were to win with your bird it just isn't the same.
Dave


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## ejb3810

I appreciate the views expressed thus far, and as I said will go with the majority. I will soon post a list of my birds for someone to select a three bird team from to compete in this Invitational.


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## Crazybird

I agree with everyone birds should not be replaced. As the owner of the bird which was the victim of the attack it stings a little but would not be fair to be replaced with a bird that is not mine. I just hope the other two can make it to the race. I would also welcome you to enter some of your own birds.


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## ssyyb2

Ejb has some wicked good breeders! I can't wait to see what you have!


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## ejb3810

I have heard from a majority of participants that are not in favor of my inserting one of my birds as a replacement for lost birds.
Tomorrow I will post a list of band numbers for someone to select three birds for a team of mine.


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## ERIC K

Ed , have you heard any news from the other Minnesota clubs. The Indian Head country conbine has a meeting Saturday to try to decide what we are doing for young birds. I believe one option is to race down I 94 .


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## ejb3810

Eric, it is my understanding that the members of the Twin City Concourse have been advised to train their birds to the North. They believe there is at least a 50/50 likelihood that the race ban will be lifted, and then they intend to adopt a Northerly course completely within Minnesota.
As you are aware the Minnesota clubs affiliated with the Heartland Federation are considering members individually transporting their birds to Wisconsin where they can legally be entered in the races. You know better than I what race course is going to be in place.
I don't know what MidMinnesota is planning. I have called a meeting of the Tri State Racing Pigeon Club for Saturday the 11th to discuss amending y/b race schedule among other topics.


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## ejb3810

Herewith is a list of young birds raised by me from my breeders, from which someone may pick three (3) to represent my team in this competition.
I have many more young birds than this, some of which I bred and are very young yet, about 15 from my friend Rick Nanez and 19 from a friend from the Heartland Federation who will remain nameless.
The group listed is not cherry picked and most are from first year mating's, so their potential is hoped to be good but a question.
2015 AU NWM 384 Indigo Ck
385 Indigo Ck
386 Grizzle
389 Blue Ck
390 Grizzle (near White)
391 Grizzle (Stork)
392 Indigo Bar
395 Blue Bar Pd
396 Silver
564 Blue Bar W/F
There you have it.


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## Crazy Pete

Well since we don't get to see the birds I will have to go with colors that I like. if the Grizzle 386 is a blue griz then that will do if not then 389, 395, 396 
Dave


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## ejb3810

Dave 386 is a result of mating a Blue Ck cock with a BB Grizzle hen. It is quite light in color and actually has some red grizzle as well as blue grizzle.
If you would like I could post photos of the birds listed or of particular ones which you would like to see prior to final selection.


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## Crazy Pete

A photo would be nice, it would help give us a clue the only reason I didn't select an indigo is that I have never had any luck, but maybe yours look better.
Dave


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## ejb3810

Dave, I will get photos taken tomorrow and post them but will probably not get posting done til tomorrow evening.


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## The_Rookie

how much??



ejb3810 said:


> Herewith is a list of young birds raised by me from my breeders, from which someone may pick three (3) to represent my team in this competition.
> I have many more young birds than this, some of which I bred and are very young yet, about 15 from my friend Rick Nanez and 19 from a friend from the Heartland Federation who will remain nameless.
> The group listed is not cherry picked and most are from first year mating's, so their potential is hoped to be good but a question.
> 2015 AU NWM 384 Indigo Ck
> 385 Indigo Ck
> 386 Grizzle
> 389 Blue Ck
> 390 Grizzle (near White)
> 391 Grizzle (Stork)
> 392 Indigo Bar
> 395 Blue Bar Pd
> 396 Silver
> 564 Blue Bar W/F
> There you have it.


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## ejb3810

Rookie, I don't know what you are referring to?


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## The_Rookie

Your list of birds. Are you selling them?


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## ejb3810

No. They are not for sale.


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## blongboy

how are the birds doing? loft flying good yet?


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## ejb3810

The birds are loft flying but not really routing well yet. They are still in the process of training to trap expediently, and I may have to cut feed a little and reward with safflower to get then where I want with that.
All are in good health and progressing well.


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## ace in the hole

ejb3810 said:


> Update:
> Those originally in the Invitational are: FT33, JWBRIGGS, atlabdi, Xueoo, blongboy, Ssyybramloft, Rolling Thunder, SouthTown, Crazy Pete, Ace, Doveman2 and Crazybird.
> Alternates in order - 1) gbhman 2) Eriduardo 3) Formidable1 4) Kalapati
> I will verify intent to enter and notify alternates of any openings.
> 
> Review of Rules:
> Entry fee of $10 per team of 3 birds to cover cost of vaccinations. Ship birds 4/15/2015 through 6/1/2015.
> Remaining birds at end of competition can be returned to breeder. Breeder to pay cost to ship them .
> Diploma will be awarded to each race winner.
> Trophy/Plaque awarded to Champion Bird.
> Trophy/Plaque awarded to Champion Breeder.
> 
> Champion Bird will be that bird with the highest accumulated point total at the end of the six (6) race series. Points earned as outlined in Sections 4. and 5. of "AU Champion Bird" rules.
> Champion Breeder will be that breeder whose top two birds total the highest cumulative "Champion Bird" points. Only the top two birds for each breeder will count toward "Champion Breeder" points.
> 
> Race Schedule:
> 8/8/2015 White Bear Lake, Mn. 126 miles
> 8/15/2015 Northfield, Mn. 168 miles
> 8/22/2015 Clear Lake, Ia. 257 miles
> 8/29/2015 White Bear Lake 126 miles
> 9/5/2015 Northfield 168 miles
> 9/12/2015 Clear Lake 257 miles
> 
> SEND YOUR BEST TO BEAT THE REST!!



Is this still the race schedule? If so I would hope they are into road training by now!!!


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## ejb3810

The race schedule will be changed related to dates and race stations. I will not post the schedule until I see if Minnesota lifts their comingle ban. If they don't lift it by Aug. 1 I will schedule races as an individual loft.
Either way the stations will change to one degree or another, as Iowa has a ban on birds coming in even from one individual.
The birds are flying well and training has just started due to the necessitated late start to the race schedule.
Knock on wood, at this time no birds are sick or have been lost other than the two reported earlier.


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## ejb3810

The birds are in good health and flying well. The racing ban has just been lifted in Minnesota, and so I am scheduling a meeting to reschedule the y/b season. Some of our members are behind in training and some have completely abandoned competitive y/b for 2015.
I will call a meeting for Fri. or Sat. and let you know what the new schedule will be.


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## ace in the hole

That is good news. Thank you for the update. Looking forward to this young bird season. Our season starts Sept. 13th


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## ejb3810

The club met Saturday and we have adopted a new race schedule. Most members have been late in training progression due to not knowing we would be able to have a y/b season.
We will fly a 100 mi. station on 9/5 & 9/12. 119 for me.
We will fly a 150 mi. station on 9/19. 168 for me.
Last race will be 200 mi. station on 9/26. 220 for me.
All races within Minnesota, as Iowa is not open to racing.
The birds continue in good health and are flying well. 
Will update weekly or as events may be of interest.


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## ejb3810

The birds are progressing well in the molt with most pretty nearly complete with body and head molt. Wing molt is much more varied due to age differences.
It is my goal to not fly birds with the 5th flight in molt and to have the birds peaked for the final with the 10th flight half grown. That will be a challenge with the age variation, but with separated feeding and management for those in need of more assistance I hope to get it done.


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## HangsLoft

Wow am I late! Didn't even know that the PT OLR was in my own backyard! Good luck! Who do you race with?


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## ejb3810

Tony, I race with Tri State RPC. You know Gary Meis who is a member, and I don't recall if we met at his olr last fall or not.


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## ejb3810

The birds are progressing nicely. No sickness issues, and no training losses to this point.


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## blongboy

any pictures update?


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## Crazybird

So we are about two weeks away from the first 100 mile race right? I can't wait for this thing to get going. How far out are birds in training now?


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## ejb3810

Guys, the good news is the birds have been trained to 50 miles multiple times and have been beating me home on most flights.
The bad news is Saturday they were trained in the morning on a shorter toss and returned fine, but in late afternoon I released them for some exercise around the loft. The forecast was for storm conditions starting around 9 PM and so they would have been in the loft well in advance. A strong storm cell hit at about 5 PM while the birds were still flying, and unfortuneately very strong winds were in front of the rain. About half of the birds had landed, but the ones in the air were blown off with the wind, Initially I thought not a big deal and that they would find their way back even if it was the next day for some of them.
A much larger storm system hit about 9PM and persisted for several hours. In addition Sunday had little rain but very strong winds all day and even continued into today. Some of the birds have returned, but at this point I do not yet have a total inventory.
I will take one tonight and inform you tomorrow as to any losses.
An additional concern will be condition of the birds after this physical and mental stress. It may take some time to get them back to the condition they were at previous to this event?
I will post an update regarding any losses and condition of remaining birds tomorrow.


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## ejb3810

Well the inventory is in, and though not as bad as originally thought it is not good.
Birds here at this time:
NEPLS 3155
Ace 234, 235 236
Gurnay 0571, 0572
LNC 5041, 5044
ARPU 28456, 28548
NDN 15005, 1547
JEDDS 30942, 30951
CMPS 3033, 3042
Gone missing as of today day is this blow away:
NEPLS 3153
ATB 1578, 1579
LNC 5043
ARPU 28474, 28482
NDN 15003
JEDDS 30948
My sincere apology to those who have birds that have gone missing. It is truly worse than losing my own, which were lost in this event as well.
Most of the birds look very good with only a couple that look just a little off. I will give the birds a day or two to rest and resume road training in the hope they will be in condition for the first race on 9/5.


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## Flapdoodle

ejb3810 said:


> .......My sincere apology to those who have birds that have gone missing. It is truly worse than losing my own, which were lost in this event as well......


This is by far the worst thing about flying birds that others have sent you. It definitely adds an element of stress. Don't beat yourself up over it. I wish you and the breeders best of luck on your first race.


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## jwbriggs

ejb3810 said:


> My sincere apology to those who have birds that have gone missing. It is truly worse than losing my own, which were lost in this event as well.
> Most of the birds look very good with only a couple that look just a little off. I will give the birds a day or two to rest and resume road training in the hope they will be in condition for the first race on 9/5.


Dont beat yourself up about it, its all part of the game. Hopefully they show back up having learned some life lessons.


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## Crazy Pete

I still have 2 birds and a chance at one more, that's racing. There is know way you could tell what was going to happen, if not the weather it would have been a hawk. No one should blame you, I don't.
Dave


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## ejb3810

The birds do look pretty good for the most part. I will be making individual inspections this morning to assess body and feather condition. They are not back in training but are loft flying daily.


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## Crazy Pete

Do you change the feed to help them bounce back? I'm lazy once they start training they get a race mix.
Dave


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## ace in the hole

It looks like my birds saw it coming. Glad to see them all there but at the same time I have waited to post because I sort of feel bad being the only one with all three still there. I'm sure their time is coming.

Hoping more will return,

Mark/Ace


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## ejb3810

The feed mix has been changed slightly to accommodate the birds which may be off a little, but not enough to effect performance in flying I don't believe.
I think there may be some degree of luck in those birds not having been blown off, but several of the birds still here did return after having been away. It is possible that greater homing instinct may be at work to some degree?


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## blongboy

100 mile race next saturday right?


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## ejb3810

The schedule is such that the first race will be 9/5, but if in my opinion all of the Invitational birds are not in prime condition for that I will hold them until the race on 9/12 which is from the same race station.
I am not saying that is or will be the case, and will not likely make that decision until 9/3.
I will keep you updated.


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## Crazybird

How many birds total will be in these races?


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## ejb3810

Total birds in the races is just a guess at this point. Our club is just reorganized this year, and we only had three flyers in o/b season.
In y/b we will have 6 lofts flying and quite likely will have 9 or 10 in o/b in 2016.
The final two races in y/b will likely be flown in combine competition which will likely result in 12 or more lofts flying.
The two short races will likely have 70 to 100 birds and perhaps double that on the two longer races.


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## blongboy

how are they with the molt?


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## ejb3810

The molt is progressing well with many of the birds done or near done with body and head molt. Wing molt will be watched closely as birds are being handled.


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## ERIC K

Ed did you have anyone from Colorado send you any young birds ?


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## ejb3810

None of the birds came from Colorado.


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## ejb3810

Some good news for Rolling Thunder. Your bird 15003 has returned to the loft and seems to be in very good condition. I will monitor it closely as I will with all the birds and train it as condition seems to dictate.


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## ejb3810

I will not make a decision until Friday, but if some (more than 1 or 2) birds are not in my opinion in condition to make an excellent effort I will delay sending them for a week.
The second week is from the same 100 mile station.
If that turns out to be the case it would change to a 3 race series of 119 mi, 168 mi & 222 mi.
I want as many of the birds as possible to start and complete the whole series of races as a way to provide a truly fair test.
Race dates may change as weather dictates, but of course I will notify you if that is the case.
The weather here has been very unusual for this time of year. Temps have been in the high 80s and the humidity has also been very high ( high 80s % on some days). This situation has come about very quickly and the birds are not acclimated to it.
I was at a one loft race on Tuesday which was 50 miles south of me. A 150 mi race in these conditions. The birds were in excellent health and trained hard and well. Even so the condition of the birds on return was as if they had flown a hard 400 mile race. Most of the birds were so spent they had a hard time even walking upon landing.
I will post on Friday what the situation is.


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## Crazybird

Is the race on for tomorrow?


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## ejb3810

Several of the birds seem to be a little off yet. So in an effort to give all a fair chance in the competition I have decided to hold off on this first race. The competition will commence next Saturday the 12th with a 119 mi. race.


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## ejb3810

As it turns out my decision must have been divine guidance. It is over 4 hours into the race and I know of only two flyers to have birds home. The winning bird will have a speed of 744+ ypm at a distance of 89.63 miles.
This race is shaping up to be a smash of sorts at this point. My fear is that most of the birds though likely to return are going to be very much spent physically?
The weather is quite good with temps in high 70s and quartering winds less than 10 mph along the course. The humidity is very high which may be part of the problem, but at this point it is a mysterious result?


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## Crazy Pete

Did you have any birds in the race? We had our first 100 today birds made it home in 2:13.34 it was a very good day for us.
Dave


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## ERIC K

Good choice Ed, I think everyone is having trouble getting birds home. We raced yesterday and I didn't do so well either. I had my best YBs , 16 total all with two 116 mile club races and one 170 mile federation race under their wing. The station was the same 170 as last week. My first bird was 20 minutes behind Les ( which is normal) but the rest came between 30 minutes to and hour apart, all single arrivals, I did have 2 clock 10 minutes apart but they were in the race for 7 hours and 40 minutes. Anyway good luck next week.


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## ejb3810

Since I was not sending the one loft birds, I decided not to send my own either. I did send one bird so as to support the club. It was a later hatched bird that was not trained as well as the primary team. It did not return on the day, and we got almost one and a half inches of rain last night and early this morning which is not going to help things.


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## ERIC K

Yeah we got that rain too, at least there will be puddles for them to drink. It appears that we hit the WRV Wisconsin River Valley club because Les got a call this morning from a flyer over there with one of his birds. It funny out of all the birds I've lost over the past 6 years with the heartland I've got very few calls.


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## ejb3810

Now I am apprehensive to send birds to the afore mentioned race station. It is a new one for us and the first race release from it.
I am thinking of conducting a special phone meeting to consider a change of the schedule.
The difficulty is that the N to S distance difference for our lofts is over 100 air miles.
To change and still have the short member with a legal race would mean starting the one loft birds at almost 170 miles.
That would be a concern also.


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## ace in the hole

You talked about the high humidity. That in itself will cause problems but I think if you check that high humidity may be what was left of the tropical depression that came through here the week before. If so there is your problem.

I have been telling people for years to watch these storms. If the remains of one of these storms comes anywhere near you within a few days of a race you will have a smash race. I think that is what happened and not a problem with your release point.


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## ejb3810

Most of the club members do not want to go to the station which we flew from last week.
In light of that the schedule has changed, and the Invitational birds will fly from Harris this week. That will be approximately 90 miles to my location. The weather looks good at this point.


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## ejb3810

Club races have been cancelled for this week due to a death. I will take the Invitational birds on a 100 mile race, and to make it a little more interesting I will take my own birds with.
Club racing will resume next week with a 150 ( almost 170 for me), and with this 100 this week it is anticipated that the Invitational birds will be well prepared for it.
I have been training the birds daily and they have been home about the same time as myself. On Tuesday a hawk came through just as the birds arrived. It did not get a bird, but the birds flew high for an additional 20 minutes before they landed.
The hawk migration is getting well underway, and normally that means 80,000 hawks pass through my area. "Hawk Ridge" is approximately 5 air miles from me. It is a location at the top of the ridge along Lake Superior where an annual count of migrating birds (especially raptors) is conducted. That is how I know that 80,000 hawks pass close to me.


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## ace in the hole

Sorry to hear about the death in your club. Looking forward to the results of the 100 mile race. Glad you are releasing them with your birds so we can see how the fair against your birds as well.

Good luck to all and hoping they all make it home.

Mark/Ace


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## blongboy

i cant wait to see the results!


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## ejb3810

This is the y/b season from hell with all the complications. It appeared that all of the birds came in one drop, but they did not get timed due to a clock malfunction.
I intend to give them a day off even though they look great and take them again on Monday.


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## Crazy Pete

Sounds like a good toss to me, no lost birds, all in one drop so every one has equal first... We are all winners, good luck Monday.
Dave


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## ejb3810

Guys I have not figured out the problem with the clock, and it seems like I will have to call Camille at Siegels to have help with the solution. In light of that the birds will be trained today and if clock is working go to race on Tues or Wed weather permitting.


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## Crazybird

Anything going on this weekend with the birds? How about some recent pics of the birds.


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## ace in the hole

Any update would be good.

Is the clock working?

Where do thing stand with the Invitational races as of today?

Isn't it a bit** taking on a race like this when things go wrong.


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## ejb3810

I apologize for the gap in communication, but I have been holding off with the hope that the update could be more positive.
Monday I took my whole team to a new location for a training toss, which is approximately 40 air miles from my loft. It was in fact the location of one of my club mates who also happens to host the "Fall Classic Futurity " race. The thought was that since he is short of me the possibility might be that some of my birds would potentially follow his in a race. This would teach them to break for home from that area.
The birds went up in a flock, made one circle and headed in the right direction. Rolling Thunder's bird 1547 did not go up with the other birds but flew up and sat on the edge of the roof of a pole building which was close to the release point. The birds were quickly out of our sight, and my friend threw a rock to scare 1547 off the building. 1547 made two circles and headed in the same direction as the flock, so we assumed he would quickly catch up.
I got home approximately four hours after release and the only bird back to the loft was 1547. By nightfall I had only 12 birds back and only 4 of those were Invitational birds. 
Second day returns were 4 additional Invitational birds along with many more from my own team. I also got a few birds yesterday (day 3).
The birds had previously been coming extremely efficiently, so this event was a complete surprise and mystery. The conditions were blue skies with a tail wind of 3 to 5 mph. Release approx. 10:00 AM.
My best guess is that the flock was hit by a hawk or hawks which caused the birds to panic and scatter. Those that fled in the right direction made it home on the day, and most of the others came late. 1547 probably did not go with the flock but flew on his own?
At this point I am missing only 1 of my own team but many Invitational birds, which is a surprise due to the fact that all of the birds have been trained together from the start of training and all seemed fit and healthy.
The birds in the loft at this time are NDN 1547, CMPC 3033 & 3042, Jedds 30951, ARPU 28456, LNC 5041 & 5044, Gurnay 0571, and NEPLS 3155.
Some of the birds which are missing at this point are a real mystery, as they were some which I had believed to be performing the best on a consistent basis.
It is my plan to send those birds in condition to compete to a approx. 100 mile race on Saturday the 19th. Plans after that are dependent on numbers and condition of birds?
It is my hope that some additional birds will return, although that is not likely at this point.
If additional birds do return I will post an update here, and I will advise as to which birds are entered in the race this week and the results.
I wish I had better news, but unfortunately these are the facts.


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## Crazy Pete

You said you have been training daily just never said how far out you have had them, still by now 40 miles should have been an easy day for them. I had the same thing happen last year, a hawk must have hit them I got a call from a guy in Bismark SD had to send a box and shipping money.
Dave


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## ejb3810

I have had the birds to 50 miles many times and they have generally beat me home or arrived as I did. I have had the birds to 70 miles three previous tosses and no problem.
I normally train right down I 35, but on this toss it was about 15 mi E of previous flight path. I don't believe that to be a material factor?


----------



## ejb3810

The other strange fact here is that a large number of the birds on my team are from another breeder. The man decided to get rid of all of his young birds due to very serious health issues of his wife. So these birds came to me at a relatively extended time after weaning. I worried about fly off after they would be put out due to age and being strong on the wing. I was very careful and gave them much aviary time before releasing. I have only lost 1 of 19.
I have sometimes wondered about climate and geography differences being a factor in losses, but in the previous one loft I hosted I had almost no losses from over 100 birds. Those birds came from all corners of the country.
I don't really think that being from out of area or bird quality has had any material influence. I believe it to simply be a quirk of fate.


----------



## ace in the hole

Siblings to the birds I sent flew well with very few losses in Wisconsin, Michigan and New York. It is hard to believe you lost them all at 40 miles.


----------



## Crazybird

Do you have a count of how many Invitational birds were lost on this toss? I know a few were lost a few weeks ago when the storm blew in.


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## Crazy Pete

ace in the hole said:


> Siblings to the birds I sent flew well with very few losses in Wisconsin, Michigan and New York. It is hard to believe you lost them all at 40 miles.


I also find it hard to believe I followed you race results- young birds 2014, your birds did very well. For you to loose all 3 hawks must have hit them when he let them up and a 2nd time on the way home, I like your results.
Dave


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## blongboy

anything could happen, this year i suffer a heavy loss at 40 miles also.. loss half my whole team 16 birds total but they been out to 65 miles 10 times before so i don't really get it. 3 other guy from my combine suffer a heavier loss also at 40


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## ace in the hole

Crazy Pete said:


> I also find it hard to believe I followed you race results- young birds 2014, your birds did very well. For you to loose all 3 hawks must have hit them when he let them up and a 2nd time on the way home, I like your results.
> Dave


At this time I will hold onto the hope that one or two will find their way home. It is very disappointing to say the least.


----------



## ejb3810

I have decided that I am not going to fly the Invitational birds in the race this Sat. 
Instead I am going to train them this coming week for a 100 on the 26th. This will give the late arrivers an additional couple of days off, and it is my hope that some of the missing will yet return and be in condition to train and race.
In all likelihood the Invitational birds will not fly in my club competition at all. This due to distances and race schedule.
If that is the case I will fly them exclusively against Invitational birds, or I would fly with my own birds to increase the numbers if that would be the competitors wishes.


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## blongboy

Sounds good to me


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## Crazy Pete

You can fly them in the club races or treat them like an OLR, your the boss what ever you decide is good by me.
Dave


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## blongboy

Crazy Pete said:


> You can fly them in the club races or treat them like an OLR, your the boss what ever you decide is good by me.
> Dave


same here..fly mine as hard as you fly yours


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## Crazybird

I agree fly them in the club races.


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## blongboy

How are they?


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## ace in the hole

I've been waiting for you to post... hey Mark one of your birds came home today... but with each day my heart sinks a little more. It's not looking good.

Good luck for the rest of you still in the race. I'll be watching to see how it finishes.

Mark/Ace


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## ejb3810

I trained Monday in beautiful sky conditions although it was a strong tailwind. The birds must have blown by because they came in scattered.
They had the day off from training on Tuesday and just loft flew. It has now been raining steady for the last two days, and so the birds have been on lock down.
There is club races this weekend, but I have decided to race the Invitational birds in One Loft competition with my own birds.
100 mile race next week during the week on whatever day appears to offer the best race conditions. I will notify at least a day in advance.


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## blongboy

ejb3810 said:


> I trained Monday in beautiful sky conditions although it was a strong tailwind. The birds must have blown by because they came in scattered.
> They had the day off from training on Tuesday and just loft flew. It has now been raining steady for the last two days, and so the birds have been on lock down.
> There is club races this weekend, but I have decided to race the Invitational birds in One Loft competition with my own birds.
> 100 mile race next week during the week on whatever day appears to offer the best race conditions. I will notify at least a day in advance.


sound great!


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## Crazy Pete

Looking forward to the race, like to see how my Fabry's fly up north.
Dave


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## pigeonflier

Sounds to me like your doing a great job of taking care of everything. Thats alot of work to handle alone!! Keep up the good work!! I need to get in on this next year. I wish I would have been paying attention and got in this year. How many birds did you start with and how many are left? Keep up the good work!!!


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## Crazy Pete

ace in the hole said:


> I've been waiting for you to post... hey Mark one of your birds came home today... but with each day my heart sinks a little more. It's not looking good.
> 
> Good luck for the rest of you still in the race. I'll be watching to see how it finishes.
> 
> Mark/Ace


Rain storms have a way of making birds come home, I just got a bird back that I lost 3 weeks ago. Good luck
Dave


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## blongboy

how did they do?


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## ejb3810

Cloudy with strong chance of rain today, so just loft flying. The rest of the week looks good. Will train Tues and Wed and have 100 mile race on Friday.


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## jwbriggs

Sounds good, Looking forward to see what happens.


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## ejb3810

Training went well on Tues and today, with the birds and I arriving at about the same time. By that I mean within seconds today.
Thursday is a day of loft flying, and Friday looks to be very good race conditions for a 100.


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## ejb3810

Guys at this point if I am going to make a mistake it will be on the side of being too cautious. The winds today are tailwinds at near 20 mph, and the same is forecast for Sat. The forecast for Sun. is tailwinds of approx. 8 mph.
Especially in light of the losses of my and your birds previously, I am going to ship the race on Sunday. The chance of rain is forecast at 0% with ptly cloudy skies and high of about 60 degrees.


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## blongboy

Sounds great!


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## Crazy Pete

I wonder how long the race is? Under 200 or so and they should be back by now, how did we do?
Dave


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## ace in the hole

This has not turned out to be what was expected when our birds were sent to a race that never seams to happen. Please give an update.


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## ejb3810

The birds were released from 100 yesterday and on the way home I stopped at the final 350 event of the Fall Classic Futurity series, which I still had three birds active in.
This 350 was from the SE vs S for my release.
The Fall Classic had a release of 143 birds at 7:45. There were two day birds at 5:58 & change, and at this point only 9 birds total have been clocked. I had a bird come in third place this morning.
I did not get home until after dark and so only went in to see how many birds had returned. Of the 23 birds I released 20 were in the loft, and two more returned this morning.
Four clubs in Wisc. reportedly had race releases on Sunday of 200 to 250 miles and none had a bird back at 5:00.
We did very well in light of this but from a much shorter distance. I will post the complete race placings tomorrow morning.


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## ssyyb2

ejb3810 said:


> The birds were released from 100 yesterday and on the way home I stopped at the final 350 event of the Fall Classic Futurity series, which I still had three birds active in.
> This 350 was from the SE vs S for my release.
> The Fall Classic had a release of 143 birds at 7:45. There were two day birds at 5:58 & change, and at this point only 9 birds total have been clocked. I had a bird come in third place this morning.
> I did not get home until after dark and so only went in to see how many birds had returned. Of the 23 birds I released 20 were in the loft, and two more returned this morning.
> Four clubs in Wisc. reportedly had race releases on Sunday of 200 to 250 miles and none had a bird back at 5:00.
> We did very well in light of this but from a much shorter distance. I will post the complete race placings tomorrow morning.


Very good job sir! Is the bird bred from anything I know?


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## ace in the hole

*The Race That Never Happened*



ejb3810 said:


> The birds were released from 100 yesterday and on the way home I stopped at the final 350 event of the Fall Classic Futurity series, which I still had three birds active in.
> This 350 was from the SE vs S for my release.
> The Fall Classic had a release of 143 birds at 7:45. There were two day birds at 5:58 & change, and at this point only 9 birds total have been clocked. I had a bird come in third place this morning.
> I did not get home until after dark and so only went in to see how many birds had returned. Of the 23 birds I released 20 were in the loft, and two more returned this morning.
> Four clubs in Wisc. reportedly had race releases on Sunday of 200 to 250 miles and none had a bird back at 5:00.
> We did very well in light of this but from a much shorter distance. I will post the complete race placings tomorrow morning.



How sharp are the rest of you that sent him birds? 

If there was a race and the birds were clocked do you think he would have looked at the clock and gave you a winner when he counted the 20 birds? He can tell you two more came in the next day but not the race results! 

I know you want to believe what he is telling you because you paid him $10 and the box and shipping for him to take your birds but it is time to read between the lines folks.



Mark/Ace


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## Crazy Pete

Now I'm as impatient as the next guy but life happens, its only a 100 mile race / training toss, I'm sure he will post more info when he has time.
Dave


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## blongboy

Some people may not have the time..thats life..im not worry on my end


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## ace in the hole

He had the time go in the loft and see 20 birds came in and tell you all about the other race but no time to look at the clock to tell you who won yours? He was in the loft the next day and time to post that two more birds came in but not enough time to look at the clock and tell you who won your race? 

If your thinking I would not be posting this if I still had birds in the race you are right. I would be requesting he send my birds home before saying anything.

I just wanted to try to open your eyes to what I am sure is happening here. I believe any one of you could give the race results in the same way he will... If I was not so sure of this I would not post this and I think you know that. 

I will say no more about this and let you (choose to believe).

Mark/Ace


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## ejb3810

Sorry about the delay in getting the info to you.
I can assure you that the race did happen, but I do understand the doubting nature of some in light of losses and delays. My reputation will not be made or lost by this race series. I apologize to those that have lost birds, but it happens, and I will be the first to admit that I do not have all the answers.
I need assistance to post the actual winspeed race report, and so will do that this evening.
The facts are:
Race release from North Branch, Mn at 9:00 on 10/4/2015 95.318 mi
At release clear. 49 with wind ESE at 3 mph
1 - NDN 1547 11:56:52 1142.258 YPM
2 - LNC 5044 11:57:06 1140.446 YPM 
3 - CMPC 3033 11:57:09 1140.058 YPM
4 - ARPU 28456 11:57:23 1138.254 YPM
5 - JEDDS 30951 11:59:15 1124.017 YPM
6 - GURNY 0571 11:59:22 1123.140 YPM
7 - NEPLS 3155 12:00:01 1118.273 YPM
8 - CMPC 3042 12:03:11 1095.156 YPM
LNC 5041 has not returned from the race at this time.
I have not shown the times or placing's from my own birds which also flew this race, as they are not a part of or relevant to the competition. 
I was not present for the birds return and so can not give specific conditions at arrival.
I will attempt to beat the birds back to the loft on the remaining two races, so that I can accurately do that.
I will make every effort to fly the remaining races as soon as weather and condition of the birds will allow. I will make an effort to give notice a day in advance.


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## ejb3810

ssyyb2, my bird that came in third at the Fall Classic was actually from some of my older breeders and is a combination of Clausing Houben and Hekkenklak/Fireflight .
I entered 4 birds originally and one found a girl friend somewhere which caused him to go back and forth between the one loft location and wherever? He would be there for some training tosses but not all. I told Gary if he was there at race shippings he could not be entered, as if he placed people might question that there was funny business going on with that bird.
Two of my birds were in partnership with Rick Nanez, and one of those was 2nd on the 150 by 1 second. Those two birds along with an additional 9 that Rick flew alone or in partnerships are still missing from the 350. They were not bad birds, but no one knows what happened?


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## ejb3810

At this point it appears that the next race will be on Friday. The forecast looks good at the release point and along the course. If this changes I will inform you.


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## V-John

Steve, good to see your Gurnay is hanging around!


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## blongboy

i see both of my cmpc still hanging on!


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## ejb3810

It seems that it is a real trick to copy a report from winspeed. My computer expert could not figure it out, so I may have to print it and scan to my main computer.
I will figure it out and get it to you.
I have previously not given much attention to K factor. After the problems with races in the Midwest on 10/4 I have become a believer in it being a problematic factor for racing pigeons. It seems that the K factor was very high on 10/4 and 10/5, and that it caused major problems in the birds navigation process. This is not such a problem in shorter races where the birds have seen much of the territory in previous races or training tosses.
With y/b in a race of greater distance and a new release point it is more of an issue?


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## ERIC K

I don't spend much time thinking about the K factor and we flew on the 3rd , Saturday with not to much problems . When that many birds are lost in one race a person would tend to think it was more of a perfect storm of a combination of thing coming together to cause problems. With the higher winds on Saturday and the many more clubs possibly racing on Sunday instead of Saturday and going in every direction within the borders of Wisconsin could be a possible reason. I was at Rick Nanezs loft on Saturday buying some birds and we were talking about a few different races like the Chicago one with very poor returns . He was talking about racing back in the 70's with the same Solar conditions and the only time there were smash races were caused by surprise severe storms . I guess I would like to see more data before I started to believe in the K factor.


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## ejb3810

Birds released at 7:45 from North Field, Mn 
At release Ptly Cldy 50 degrees wind N at 7 mph
At arrival Cldy 53 degrees wind WNW at 5 mph
Distance 167.788 miles
Clocking order:
CMPC 3033 11:31:07 1305.991 ypm
NDN 1547 11:31:07 1305.991 ypm
ARPU 28456 11:32:04 1300.527 ypm
Gurny 571 11:32:11 1299.859 ypm
LNC 5044 11:32:31 1297.955 ypm
JEDDS 30951 11:33:09 1294.352 ypm
CMPC 3042 11:35:02 1283.754 ypm
NEPLS 3155 11:37:22 1270.863 ypm

All back in good time, and they did not seem taxed. The next race will in probability have them more separated?
Will give a day off and then short toss for a couple of days. Will send them to the 200 as soon as weather permits.


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## Crazy Pete

167 miles all in within 6 min, that's a good day. What do you call short tosses?
Dave


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## blongboy

not bad i would like my other hen to pick up speed tho lol


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## ejb3810

Short tosses will be in the 20 mile area, and this to keep the birds sharp and in condition.
Most of the birds came on a drop in this race, and the difference was just in trapping really. The last two came in on their own.
I believe that these birds are in peak physical condition, and I hope for good but more challenging conditions on the final to help single out a bird or birds.


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## ejb3810

At this point based on weather forecast for release pt and loft it looks like the final race will be on Friday. Cool but no rain and headwind?


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## ejb3810

The final race is delayed due to low temps and high winds. High temp on return forecast at 43, but the real problems is wind in my opinion. At release was 13 to 20 mph and at loft is 13 to 25. This is a very strong headwind all along the course with the birds release delayed due to cold temp at sunrise. The next couple days have sunny skies and reduced winds. I will check the wind predictions later today to determine if the birds go up Sat. or Sun.


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## ejb3810

Birds released today at 8:30 in Albert Lea. At release 38 degrees and sunny with W wind at 5 mph.
Birds are not back at this time, and weather at loft is 43 degrees and sunny with WNW winds at 8 mph. I would anticipate the birds to be back sometime between 3:00 and 4:00Will update after birds are in.


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## Crazy Pete

Perfect day for a race good luck.
Dave


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## ejb3810

Crazy Pete, not only did your cornhuskers shellac my hapless gophers but your bird won the race by 4 seconds.
Times as follows:
5044 14:17:31 1,227.722 ypm
1547 14:17:35 1,227.464
30951 14:33:26 1,169.116
3155 14:39:23 1,148.619
571 14:40:02 1,146.424
3042 14:47:19 1,122.383
28456 14:51:22 1,109.446
3033 14:56:50 1,092.449

The birds were more spread out today even though it was not really a long race, but they had a significant head wind for a good portion of the race.
I think these birds have proved to be good birds, but I just wish the training losses had been less.
I will tally points tomorrow and post the standings for the overall competition.


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## Crazy Pete

A head wind race helps my birds, Who has 1547 that my bird fallowed home?
Dave


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## Rolling Thunder

*Congrats Dave*

1547 is my bird! What was the distance on this race?


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## blongboy

well atleast my 2 was still flying to the very end..if my 3rd one didn't die im sure you'l still be flying it
pm me when you are ready to get the shipping money


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## ejb3810

The total points for the birds over the three races ranges from 282 to 298. All of the birds performed very well in my opinion.
There was only a three point difference between the Champion Bird ( 1547 owned by Rolling Thunder at 298 points) and the second place bird ( 5044 owned by Crazy Pete at 295 points). 1547 a Silver on the larger side was 1st at the 100 and 2nd at both the 150 and 250. 5044 was 2nd at the 100, 5th at the 150 and 1st at the 250.
Blongboy is Champion Breeder and is the only one that had two birds make it to all races. They are a pair of Blacks and were 3rd and 8th as relates to accumulated points.

The final race was actually 222.158 miles, and with the conditions a good test for the birds.
The trophies are not in yet, but when they arrive I will post photos prior to mailing them to the winners of Champion Bird and Champion Breeder.


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## ejb3810

I apologize to all regarding the large losses in training, and I wish I knew how it could have been avoided.
I will be flying o/b in 2016 and any that wish not to get their birds back I would incorporate them into my o/b team and provide you information weekly as to their performance.
Those that do wish their birds back please advise and I will notify you what the shipping expense will be. I have retained your shipping boxes and will use them unless the number of birds to ship will better go in a smaller box. There will be no box fee with shipping back.
I know Blongboy wants his birds. Everyone else please advise as to your wishes.


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## Crazy Pete

You can keep my bird, I think my breeding book is now my grandsons English note book can you put up a pic of my bird. Then I hope I can tell who the parents are.
Dave


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## jwbriggs

ejb3810 said:


> I apologize to all regarding the large losses in training, and I wish I knew how it could have been avoided.
> I will be flying o/b in 2016 and any that wish not to get their birds back I would incorporate them into my o/b team and provide you information weekly as to their performance.
> Those that do wish their birds back please advise and I will notify you what the shipping expense will be. I have retained your shipping boxes and will use them unless the number of birds to ship will better go in a smaller box. There will be no box fee with shipping back.
> I know Blongboy wants his birds. Everyone else please advise as to your wishes.



You can hang on to mine for Old Birds as well.


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## FT33

You can keep mine and fly it old bird season.


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## Crazybird

You can keep mine also. Thanks for hosting the race!!


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## blongboy

When do you want the money to ship?


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## ejb3810

blongboy, check your private messages.


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## ejb3810

Rolling Thunder your private message box is full and will not accept additional messages.
Your bird is in transit. Send me an e-mail and I will reply with tracing information.
[email protected]


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