# Redcell vitamins



## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Whats the shelf life of RedCell liquid vitamins if kept refrigerated ?

Mine is a year and a half old , but it seems thick and it stinks with a real strong vitamin oder . I dont see a date code on the bottle and who knows how long it sat at the feed store . Nauseating is the best way to describe it but it was that way when I bought it . 

Somebody please check theirs and see if its the same . 

thanks from Hambone


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Redcell naturally smells kinda funny. Typically it smells somewhat sweet, but strong. I have no idea what the shelf life is, but you normally want to use any kind of medication or supplements within 6 months. That's not to say it won't last longer, I just think things are more effective if used within that time frame.


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## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

does it not have a indicator on the packaging?most vits do smell yukky,the vitamin odour is sort of "yeasty"smell(best way i can describe it)personally id bin it an dbuy some new stuff


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

I have several friends who have horses and they keep it refrigerated for a couple of years.

George


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Redcell naturally smells kinda funny. Typically it smells somewhat sweet, but strong. I have no idea what the shelf life is, but you normally want to use any kind of medication or supplements within 6 months. That's not to say it won't last longer, I just think things are more effective if used within that time frame.


Am I wrong? It's just a supplement?
I brought some many year's ago. To me it smelled like iron. I question why I brought it...that extra edge, how naive I was.
If a bird is in dire strait's, it may be a benefit. However, if one feed's good, nutrious food. There is no need to supplement.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, vitamins and minerals are supplements  I give it to my birds. It's a great thing to give them once a week. It has things in it even the best pigeon feeds don't supply them. Besides, it doesn't hurt anything. Their body will use what they can from it and discard the rest. I can't remember what all the back says on there, but if I remember right, doesn't it have B vitamins in it?

Edit: Just checked, and it does have B-12 in it. That's one of the things that this stuff is good for. They don't get much B-12 from their food. Gives them loads of long lasting energy. I take B-complex vitamins myself everyday.


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

yes , its definitely a supplement ... made for horses , but its got a following of pigeon people who swear by it . I feel that an extra vitamin / supplement is a good thing .

My question is whether I happened to get a bad batch or the awful smell is normal . It has the consistancy of light syrup and somewhat gooey until you really shake it up , it doesnt blend into the water easily . You have to stir it a bit to dissolve the stuff . It was that way in a new sealed plastic jug when I got it a year ago . 

Given the choice between clean water , and the mixture ....my birds will go for the fresh water everytime . 

I thought if someone has it and uses it , let me know if yours is like that . I could toss it to be sure , but why ? If its still good I might as well use it up . 

I think this will be my last bottle of the stuff , good , bad or otherwise though . That strong vitaminy smell is too much for me  and my pigeons dont seem to be too keen on it either . 

There must be something as good or better that doesnt stink so bad .



hambone

Tuxedobaby ... I looked all over bottle but no dates , there is a bar-code but didnt find any info on decoding it on the internet


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If in doubt, throw it away.

I think vitamins/minerals are overrated unless you are not feeding your birds variety of grains, etc. I feed pellets and grains so that take care of vitamins/minerals. I think we only need to give those supplements after medication. We probably might need to put them on their feed/drink after a long race.

I think red cell contains iron where that red name may have originated.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Red cell is thick and the easiest way to mix it is by mixing it in a milk jug full of warm water. Shake it up really good and pour it in the drinkers.
Anything you give pigeons for the first time will take some getting used to. Changing the feed, adding supplements, heck, even putting bath salts in their bathing water will make them wary. I have found that after a few times they don't seem to mind the Red Cell at all, they almost seem to like it. It's made to taste like cherry and be palatable so horses will eat it. I think it smells kinda good unless you breathe a whole lot of it in at once. But then again, mine is only a few months old. So I'd have no way of knowing how 1 1/2 year old stuff smells like. I'd say use it so you get your monies worth, and if you can't find anything else to use, then get some fresh Red Cell and use it up a little more quickly.



I also never saw a word about its shelf life OR whether or not it should be refridgerated. Mine stays in the loft 24/7. I think as long as it's not exposed to the sun all the time, it'll be fine. But of course refridgerating does tend to make things effective for longer.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Did you know some seeds and grains in pigeon feed secretly hurts them more than it helps them? I believe it was certain peas and millet (or was it milo?) that makes it harder for the body to absorb important vitamins and minerals. Iron was one of the things. I need to find that article so I actually sound like I know what I'm talking about...  I've already forgot what it said!


I personally do think vitamin and mineral supplements are good for something. I don't think you need to give it to them everyday, but maybe once a week at the most. Pigeons will eat what they like before they eat what's good for them, if allowed. I think they'd kill for peanuts before they go for anything else. So at least with things like Red Cell, you'll have a backup in case there is anything the bird is missing in their diet. Or prehaps they just need more of it. It is true that the majority of the vitamins we and birds take are not absorbed, BUT, if we need them, we take them. If not, we don't. So it is very possible it is good for something. IMO.


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond . 

Mary I think you have answered my question . The description of the product as being somewhat thick and the birds behavior is pretty much what I am seeing here . Also since the Redcell is straight out of the fridge that might explain why its harder to get it to mix in the waterer . Mine says "yucca" flavor on it ..... yucky would be more like it  . Maybe the cherry flavor is easier on the nose . I think that its probably OK ....I'm just going to use it up , or at least some of it if the birds will drink it . I dont put it in very often so maybe they just havnt gotten used to it . 

RodSD I'd like to try the pellets ( never tried before ) and blend 50/50 with a pigeon seed mix but I havnt been able to find pigeon pellets in my location . Maybe blending in some turkey feed or chicken layer pellets would work too , but would like to get something with the food , minerals and everything in one bag . 

The reason for all this vitamin related stuff is that my birds feathers are looking a bit ratty lately . Dont know if its nutrition related or maybe they are getting ready to molt . The last bag of pigeon mix I bought was the same brand I normally get , but it said "New and Improved" . Seemed it had much more corn and wheat ? but lighter on the peas , I wasnt impressed at all , but its all I could get at the time . My guys dont like corn that much . Its hard to find good supplies out here .

hambone


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well, vitamins and minerals are supplements  I give it to my birds. It's a great thing to give them once a week. It has things in it even the best pigeon feeds don't supply them. Besides, it doesn't hurt anything. Their body will use what they can from it and discard the rest. I can't remember what all the back says on there, but if I remember right, doesn't it have B vitamins in it?
> 
> Edit: Just checked, and it does have B-12 in it. That's one of the things that this stuff is good for. They don't get much B-12 from their food. Gives them loads of long lasting energy. I take B-complex vitamins myself everyday.


...and the benefit's?. Im not being a smart ....
Just want to know?


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi Brummie , 

In my case I'm not certain that they ARE getting a good diet lately as I mentioned with my feed situation out here . If you can get the best feeds , then probably you dont need a supplement . Some of the big racers use supps and a few dont so its debatable . 

My birds feathering and appearance just looks better with some supplements added. I include garlic , ACV , yogurt , in the definition of a supplement too . Everybody has their own little formula but it seems to help . 

I dont race either . Just want the birds to be in good health .

hambone


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Brummie said:


> ...and the benefit's?. Im not being a smart ....
> Just want to know?


There are quite a bit of benefits the things in Red Cell can give your birds. First off, it helps in making blood, which means more oxygen being pumped through the system. Here's a few of the vitamins and what they are good for:

B-12 - is necessary for maximum growth in young birds. Also important in reproduction. Even though bacteria in the gut can produce B12, it is not a dependable source. Vitamin supplements provide adequate supplies of B12. Found in wheat germ, peanuts, and peas. 
B-6 - functions in the building and breaking down of carbohydrates, fats and proteins. It is mainly involved with proteins and amino acids. Can be found in both plants and animal products. Very little is stored in the body. Most practical diets require the addition of B6 for growth. Corn, sunflower, rice and peas.
E - antioxidant, which is used by the body to prevent chemicals in the body from damaging cells. This is sometimes referred to as the "sex" vitamin as is necessary for the pituitary, adrenal and sex hormones. Vitamin E works together with other minerals, especially selenium. Found in safflower, peanuts, sunflower, whole grains.
A - stored in the liver and is needed for good vision. It is essential for resistance to infections, particularly in the sinuses. It is important for healthy eyes, skin and mucous membranes. Found in peas, dandelion leaves, and red chilli peppers.
D-3 - regulates the absorption of calcium from the intestines. Without enough Vitamin D, the absorption of calcium is slowed, which can cause inadequate bone development. D-3 is the only D vitamin birds can use.

Here's something from one of my favorite avian nutrition sites:
"No one seed species, by itself, will contain all of the nutrients required by a bird for long-term good health. Even combining a variety of seeds together may not provide complete nutrition for most birds. According to Dr. Randall N. Brue of Kaytee Products in Chilton, Wisconsin, most seed mixes fed to companion birds have these deficiencies:

•Specific Amino acids- Lysine, methionine 
•Vitamins - Vitamins A, D-3, B-12, and riboflavin. Possibly vitamins E, K, pantothenic acid, biotin, niacin, and choline. 
•Minerals - Calcium, and possibly sodium. 
•Trace Minerals - Possibly iron, copper, zinc, manganese, iodine, and selenium. 

Relying on seeds as the sole diet of most bird species will result in malnutrition. Some bird species will display signs of malnutrition earlier than others, depending on what that species requirements are. Signs of malnutrition in birds include:

•Malformed feathers
•Excessive growth of the beak and nails
•Flaky skin
•Black discoloration in green or yellow feathers
•Excess keratin (horn) on the beak, giving it a scaley appearance
•Chronic infections
•Paralysis (lutino cockatiels)
•Brown thickened flaking cere (budgerigars) 
•Egg binding, soft-shelled eggs, spraddle legged babies
•Feather destructive behavior
•Obesity
•Fatty liver disease
Malnutrition is not limited to birds on an all-seed diet. Other diets, including formulated diets, can also contribute to malnutrition."

Now of course some of those malnutrition symptoms do not apply to pigeons, but most of them do.
Note that the only things listed in the possible deficiencies that Red Cell does NOT contain, are Nancin, Vitamin K, and the first two listed amino acids.

Here's two sites that can really help when it comes to nutrition with birds:
http://www.lovebirds.ca/Avian Nutrition.htm
http://www.holisticbirds.com/pages/phytonutrition0202.htm



Also, Hambone, I'm pretty sure all Red Cell is Yucca flavored (I don't know what that tastes like  ) But I do see it has cherry flavoring in it. That has to help a little  Cherry sounds better than Yucca, LOL.


I would also like to point out that there is another thing similar to Red Cell that has a couple extra things in it that could help our birds. It's called Red Flex. I haven't seen any around here but I would like to try it when I find it. It has Glucosamine HCI and Chondroitin Sulfate, which are good for joints. For those who race, that could help out the birds a lot and keep them racing longer.


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