# Brown vs Dun



## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

A lot of people get the two confused so we made a quick video showing them along with the rest of our New York Flying Flight colors.
Most Flight people refer to Brown as coffee, coco or chocolate dun. They call khaki (dilute brown) apple dun.
Check out the links in the video description as it seems some other clubs use to do this as well. The ironic thing is the Domestic show flight club calls brown, brown.
The English Carrier club wrote the best standard about it.



> Brown (Formerly shown as dun): Should be an even shade of dark brown throughout, with birds coming in various shades from light to dark chocolate brown. The darker varieties being preferred. The overall color is not as important as having a bird that is one uniform shade throughout. Remember, these birds are not dun.


http://www.azpigeonclub.org/bird_standards/english_carrier.php
[More standards in the video description]

Slang breeds ignorance and confusion. I almost wonder if I should drop all genetically accepted dilute names like cream and khaki and just call them ash red dilute ect...

To make matters worse some brown NY F. Flights come out looking dun and can almost only be told apart by the down feathers. Flights also carry pale to add to it.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWjXxzpwjMM


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

To confuse matters even more. The dutch dun nuns are really a darkened (dirty?) ash red, but they are in the same color range as dun and brown.

The problem is not having all these colors side by side like in the video...


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

Well having them side by side helps us, but there are entire pigeon clubs who go by the wrong term. They have these birds in their lofts as well.
We have a brown so rich and dark it appears to be dun, however we bred it so we know better. I'm not sure if working this breed with such refined colors helps or hurts the cause.

I think it all started like this. Someone bred some nice browns and since they look pretty similar to duns they decided browns were better and it's not worth showing both so they picked the browns over duns but called the browns duns because dun is more popular than brown... They also breed blacks to browns which may help add confusion. A simple understanding of down feather lengths would have cleared that up.

I looked into the English? nun standard and couldn't find any pictures of 'duns' however their standard list everything out correct. They even go on to make a note about brown and dun being different. Seems a very common flaw with many clubs.



> DUN – Dilute black self
> An even shade of dun throughout, darker and distinct from brown, with a bright green sheen to the bib feathers. Beak, ceres and toenails dark horn.
> BROWN – Self
> A chocolate brown colour with a bright green sheen to the bib feathers. Evenness of colour throughout preferred. Sun bleaching of the flights is undesirable but not a serious fault. Beak, ceres and toenails dark horn.
> ...


http://www.nunpigeons.com/www.nunpigeons.coms/info.php?p=7


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