# Blind Mourning Dove



## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Hello from a really green newbie

Last week my wife and I needed to go to the grocery store to get a few things. We took our dogs with us and as we left the house the little one barked an alert and ran over to the tree in our front yard. He didn't touch it, but we was sniffing at a downed bird. My wife picked it up and handed it to me. It was obviously a baby of some variety...I don't know aviary very well. He looked very healthy, had been well cared for by his parents. I didn't want to stop right then to check him over more thoroughly so I placed him in a cardboard box...he wasn't going anywhere -- he couldn't fly.

Returning from the market I gave the little guy a pretty good examination -- nothing. He seemed to be in great shape. I couldn't figure out, however, why he couldn't fly away. Also, he was very uncoordinated, twisted around in circles, had trouble with balance and was very quiet. I decided to keep him for a week or two, make sure he got plenty of food and planned then to turn him back to the wild to be on his own.

Well, it soon became obvious the second day that he wasn't improving on the balance, coordination, nor on the flying though he flapped his wings a lot. I new nothing about doves nor about wild birds. My only credentials are that I am raising four hens and a rooster from newborns...they pretty much take care of themselves now that they are about four months old. This little guy is nothing like they were when they were his age.

Somehow I got the idea that he may be sight impaired, and with that thought I did some more rudimentary tests. Sure enough, he didn't recognize nor did he react to any movements toward him or around his head and normal field of vision. That conclusion began to explain some of the other observations that I had noticed in the few hours he had been with us. Now I went to the internet to find out some more about doves, especially those who are blind. All this time I am subtly being dragged into making a commitment to this little birdie along with the anticipation of raising him through his difficulties. I certainly wasn't of a mind to toss him out into the world in his situation.

The postings on this forum from the members has been great. In particular I read the story of Pidgey who raised Unie, a pigeon, to the honed point where she was flying BLIND! How outstanding does it get! I have always enjoyed a challenge and her experience with a blind bird smacked a doozie of a dare right in front of my face. 

I have named him Suerte (Spanish for LUCK)...don't know if <he> is a girl or boy yet...gonna have to wait a while to see if he gives us an egg. If he turns out to be a she we'll just shorten her name to SUE, and enjoy her eggs along with those of the chicks. 

I will post a photo today and, if anyone wishes, I will write more as the saga continues. Already I have found difficulty trying to feed this little tyke the way others describe on this forum and I have modified those methods to suit Suerte and me...quite different from what you kind people are doing with your birds; and he has been growing bigger, with better balance (sitting on a perch quite ably now), better coordination, and I hold him so he can flap his wings to develop strength through his entire body. He is still timid about walking but he is starting to turn toward me when he hears my voice. 

More later.......

FS


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

cute bird!! thank you for helping him, can't wait to hear more about him/her


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Thank you JennyM for your kind reply.

It has been a week and a day since we found this little critter....squab I'm told they are called...not a very complimentary name IMHO. He has grown quite a bit in that week. I had a very difficult time getting him to accept food or water and I was mostly afraid of dehydration. Somehow he has survived and now we are into a routine that he seems to like and is taking both Wild Bird Food and water in copious amounts. I feed him four to six times a day (including one feeding at 2am). 

Being retired from pharmacy I have a keen sense of proper nutrition. I know doves are pure vegetarians and I don't have a clue as to how they get the necessary amino acids for proper nutritional supplementation. I will be "cheating" some on the diets I create for him...adding animal stuff in disguise. Fish foods and ferret foods have a large amount of protein, mostly from chicken meal. I purchased a pellet fish food with a large amount of fish meal and krill. The krill I will add directly to a mushy formula I have in mind to create. Mealy worms are also high in amino acid nutrients and would be fine in the same formula. If I cut the fish food pellets in 1/2 they are the right size for Suerte to swallow. OK, that said, what do you more experienced aviaries say about what I have just written? Pros vs cons. I don't know where to go to find any proprietary formulae -- I keep reading on this forum about them being in existence.

I may have made a mistake already (well, one that I recognize, anyway). Before I discovered his blindness I trimmed Suerte's wings back about an inch...just like I watched my mother do with the chickens when I was a kid. I thought he might fly off before I got to make sure about his health...didn't realize he was not able to see anything and had no visual references for situations requiring such reference. I believe the reason he twists around in circles is to hopefully run into something that gives him some kind of information about where he is and how safe he is. When I speak to him he immediately turns to my voice. He still is extremely hesitant and leery about walking toward my sound, but he does make the effort, baby steps at a time. When he approaches the edge of the bed or a table or chair, I sound out an insistent no, no, no, and place one of his talons over the edge to teach him that going over could be quite a drop. If he were flying that wouldn't be a problem...but now it is. 

I have already mentioned that his balance has improved mucho. Before I came into his life he had no one to pick him up and move him around, he had no roosting bar to cling to. Now he gets to flex out his wings when he senses the need, and to grip harder with his talons. The problem with the roosting bar is, however, that he doesn't know how high in the air he is. The bar I fashioned for his cage is just an inch off the bottom, but he hasn't discovered that yet. 

Suerte's first feedings with Cream of Chicken Soup and powdered chickee starter feed were a disaster. He just couldn't figure out where and how to get it into his beak, and I had no clue as to how, either. The result was that he and my hands got very slippy, sloppy wet with formula and just using a damp cloth was not sufficient. I started wiping him down with water running from the faucet in the bathroom lavatory. Then one day he seemed to be shivering way too much, so I filled the basin with about 105 degree water and let him soak in it till the shivers left...he seemed to not be disturbed by this, so the next evening I took him into the shower with me. It was just like he had done that every day in his life...didn't fight it at all, seemed to even enjoy it. So, now we do that every evening. Do I have a duck in disguise? (grin)

I am posting a video (see comment below) with this segment of our progress. It shows Suerte's and my method of what feeding time for us is like. Some of you may get the impression that I am being mean to him, but that would be far from the truth. I was hesitant at first to put the pressure on him, especially around his neck and head. But the more I helped him bend forward while I pried his beaks apart, and the more food I could cram down his throat, the more he ate and the faster, not to mention how he looked for more when he lost contact of my fingers. So, please don't cry for Suerte and cuss me out for being so rough. On a comparative scale of our weights he is being far more rowdy and aggressive than I am. 

I always let him rub my cheek when I finish the session, and I move him up and down so he can get his wings flapping, and for exercise. He seems to like me holding him in such a position that he can keep his wings in a constant flap.

Wish the video was more professional...gotta use what I've got available. You get a great view of my fist when you should be seeing my fingers slide down Suerte's beak to get the seeds into his swallowing range. I hope you get the idea. 

Please don't think I am saying this is the way you should be feeding your baby. I haven't seen anyone else doing what we do...it just works well for us. 

I really enjoyed the hints and tips others had to offer as I began reading about how to keep this little imp alive. I hope what I have written will be of some help to other passersby who find themselves in the same quandary that I did. If so, good luck with your challenge. I am enjoying mine to this moment.

FS 


Added comments: I cannot seem to get my MPG file to upload. I do not subscribe to a social media outlet on which to dump the video file. Maybe someone can suggest to me where and how I can park the video without subscribing to Facebook, Twitter or anything such as these.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can you post a photo of him close up. Looks as if he has pox and that might be the reason for him not being able to see. Turning round in circles might be PMV. Both will eventually clear up in a couple of weeks.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

You can go to a file sharing website like tinypic.com and upload your video there (you can also upload pictures). Once it's uploaded just share the link here.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

That's a pigeon by the way, not a dove. Have you tried feeding him defrosted peas? Best way to get him to eat on his own.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*That is a baby pigeon.

Here is the link on feeding baby pigeons and what to feed at what age: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm

Here is a link on feeding peas and corn: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/peasandcorn.htm 

ALWAYS make sure baby is warm, food is warm, and feed only when crop is empty. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They do sell Kaytee baby bird formula in many pet stores.
And yes, it is a young pigeon.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Marina B said:


> Can you post a photo of him close up. Looks as if he has pox and that might be the reason for him not being able to see. Turning round in circles might be PMV. Both will eventually clear up in a couple of weeks.


Here are some photos. I gave him another comprehensive exam and I can see nothing wrong externally. There are no irregularities nor eruptions like a pox, and I do not know what PMV is. I will be going to the <tinypic.com> that JennyM suggested to post the video, and I really do appreciate all the feeding tips the rest of you have provided. Thank you so very much.

Now, I'm curious. How can you tell that Suerte is a *pigeon*? I have a couple of photos from the net of a what is said to be dove and her baby and the baby looks exactly like Suerte. I will concede to your opinions, but I'd like to learn what tells you from my bum photo that he is not a *dove*? Thank you again

FS


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This is a baby pigeon and you do not trim its wings, take showers with it nor let it shiver. Before you treat any baby bird like a pigeon-----------Learn about it. Number one-----Their mouths are set up different than all other birds and they breath through a hole in the back of their throat. And if you feed it the wrong way you could aspirate this pigeon and it will die. Only two species of birds are set up this way---Pigeons and Doves. This bird is not a chicken and should not be compared to a chicken for survival of it. Sometimes a carefree attitude is good and the bird does happen to survive but once you get to know about pigeons you will be more cautious in dealing with how to help them. Use that link that SkyeKing put on for a reference and really get the knowledge on how to feed and give it water for its survival. Your assuming too much about pigeons and for lesson number one learn about aspiration and the proper diet. I know you are trying to help it but get serious with this baby because if not you will kill it. This is a baby pigeon . Wet your fingers with water and let this bird suck the water off of your fingers a little at a time until it is satisfied.. Pigeons and Doves suck water and they do not put their heads up in order to drink. Go on the internet and see videos on how people feed baby pigeons and what they feed them because it is a very different way than regular birdies. Thank you for the helping it and I sure hope the baby survives under your care-----------------but I sure do have my doubts because of your "carefree attitude" with "no knowledge" about pigeons..


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Difficult to describe the difference, but pigeons are just much more robust than doves. Baby doves are quite delicate and much smaller. If you go to the search section up top and type in "dove" (I don't know how to insert the thread's name in a post) and scroll down to the thread "Baby mourning dove" by Natalya2, you will see a beautiful photo of a baby dove. Unfortunately this baby had a sad ending.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

I now have been soundly censored.

No offense, though. How was I to know all this when I first found this little orphan? I certainly have not accepted this undertaking with a cavalier or "carefree" attitude. I have been VERY concerned that what I have been doing and experimenting with that it is not something that would be harmful to this creature. I have been learning loads of information in the past week and I appreciate every word, even those that tend to set me in place as though they believe me to be a complete intellectual dummy. Well, in this particular case I have, because of the unfamiliar circumstances, been a dunce.

As the days and feedings along with other care have come by hours of experimentation to see what works best with this dove(?) who, by unanimous support, seems to be really a pigeon, I have come to learn what he, Suerte, is amenable to and what he will allow so that he gets the nourishment he needs. In other words, I let him decide how we go about things but it became obvious that I had to keep trying different methods. BTW, he really likes the peas -- gonna try some frozen corn (WARMED) as soon as we get to the store. So, to those concerned, I do not think these two items alone are sufficient for his complete sustenance.

I learned very quickly to keep him warm at all times, and that goes for the food that goes down his gullet. I have been aware when his crop (spelled "crop", pronounced "craw" by us older Southwesterners) is empty or full and how it feels. It wasn't very full most of the time before I finally discovered a way to get him to take water -- he now attacks my water feeder with a vengeance and doesn't quit till he has his fill, about 1-1/2 tsp. He was very much less inclined to eat what I had chosen to feed him, or the way I was making an attempt to get the food down.

As for the shower...I had him with me one evening and could see him shivering in the way pigeons shiver and knew this wasn't good. Holding him comforted him, and since I already had been wetting his front with warm water after the mostly failed experience of trying to get him to eat with the pasty mush I made from chicken starter feed (all I had at hand at the time). He had had no objection to the water washing down his breast, so the next evening I made sure the shower water was what I determined to be the proper temperature for him and we stepped in together. He really took to it, and still does. The second evening I even applied a couple of drops (very small amount) of ferret shampoo to get him really clean and to get rid of any mites or other micro-pests that he might have contracted. He is now constantly clean and doesn't have to preen as long nor as often as he had been doing. 

Immediately after the shower he gets wrapped up in my own plush bath towel to get the water absorbed. Then I wrap him in a very warm cloth and place him in his cage with a heating pad turned on low -- which he also enjoys. He IS NOT being abused. The shower is something he likes and now seems to expect we will do together. Though he is a wild pigeon, he is beginning to get 'human' imprinted on his instinct board. After all, after he found himself ejected from his nest, and I have been his only 'mother' on whom he can rely. 

Now I am very hesitant to post my video of our feeding session because there are going to be those who, in spite of my explanations, will judge that we go at it in way that looks to be like I am abusing him. He has to eat, and this method has been the only way out of many that I have tried that works FOR HIM. Suerte and I may have to leave this forum if I get scolded for the way I am approaching and handling this situation, an occurrence for which I did not ask. 

I have already admitted that I may have made a mistake by taking an inch off his wings. It will take a little longer now before I can get him to realize that this is his anti-gravity device. I wish that I hadn't done that, but that's water under the bridge at this point. I give him plenty of exercise flapping his wings to make him ready when they are able to support his complete weight.

OK, I realize that I may be a bit thin skinned. I truly am not offended! Instead I feel more appreciative that someone has spoken up about my relationship, right or wrong, with this poor young bird. It helps me be even more cautious about what could be possible impending harm to what has become my beloved little Suerte. He has become very healthy and strong with my (our) kind of care. Warm is the #1 concern about which I have become very vigilant. You will reel in shock about this, but I have even prepared a 'poop cloth' that I place beside me in my bed and we sleep close together under the covers with him snuggling and trying to burrow under my armpit like he would have done with his mom. I do this to be sure he is warm enough (and I like his company). In the early morning I take him to his cage where he has the heating pad, turned on low, and a couple of soft cloths to absorb the heat from the pad. He nestles down into the cloths and will be asleep in the snap of a finger -- no shivering.

My apologies if I have been offensive to anyone reading this post...it certainly is not intentional, and I am old enough (please read that to be mature) to know and realize that most of what is seen in the written word often is not received with the same intent that it was offered. So, no offense taken -- I appreciate the enumeration of my mistakes. And it is right! My only experience with birds is my chicken flock, and I perceived very quickly that they and my pigeon are not cut from the same cloth.

Still friends?

FS


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Marina B said:


> Difficult to describe the difference, but pigeons are just much more robust than doves. Baby doves are quite delicate and much smaller. If you go to the search section up top and type in "dove" (I don't know how to insert the thread's name in a post) and scroll down to the thread "Baby mourning dove" by Natalya2, you will see a beautiful photo of a baby dove. Unfortunately this baby had a sad ending.


Thank you, Marina. You have been a great help.

I found the post(s) by Natalya2 and her said-to-be dove. I'm more confused. This photo depicts a small bird that looks, again, to be exactly like my little pigeon, or dove, or whatever it may be. So, are you pretty sure Suerte is a pigeon?....no big deal to me either way, but my curiosity quotient is elevating by leaps and bounds. The beaks in the two photos are identical...at least to me. The coloring in the feathers and their appearance is pretty much the same...Suerte has little 'rows' of grey, Natalya's photo appears to be completely black. Suerte was anything but energetic at first, and doesn't move much until he hears my voice...but I believe he is timid about walking around not being able to see where he is going or what is in front of him.

So many have affirmed Suerte to be a pigeon, but I wish to learn how that conclusion is reached...especially since the opinion is unanimous. The only reason that I remain confused is because of the several photos I've seen where the bird in question is a dove but looks like Suerte, the pigeon(?).

FS


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't think you were "censored", c.hert is a very sweet lady who cares a lot about birds and I'm sure she only wants the best for little Suerte. Please take her and other people's advise on how to feed and care for him/her, they are very knowledgeable, and like I said, they only want the best for these birds. 

Make sure you are feeding the right food (and amount) for Suerte's age and don't give him/her so many hot showers as it could be bad for his/her health. When I was a kid I once killed a bunny because I bathe him and then wrapped him with a blanket to keep him warm, he developed some lung problem. I know rabbits and pigeons are different, but they are both very fragile animals and should be handled with lots of care.

Thanks again for saving this little guy!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Your posting on #12 was just wonderful Frogstomper and my you are "learning" about pigeons. Thank you for the update...You have a wonderful Pet pigeon...Keep up your education about them...Your post touched my heart and made me feel good. Thank you.
c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your bird is a pigeon. Maybe you saw pictures of baby pigeons, where people were calling them a dove. Sometimes people use the word dove when referring to a pigeon.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

*new developments, feeding/care methods*

Here I go again spouting out to the whole world how I am abusing OR caring for this little critter that very unexpectedly hopped into my previously well controlled lifestyle. I still look forward to reading positive criticisms of how things are going with Suerte and me. Being that he has grown to about three times the size he was when we first 'bumped' into each other, negative remarks do not hold a lot of weight with me. He is as healthy as you could expect an animal to be, and he has calmed down in areas where he used to be a bit dangerous to himself, and he has increased in his frisky-ness and other areas where he drastically needed to improve. Things seem to be going smoothly where our relationship to each other is concerned.

Now, about the shower. After that suggestion was offered I started being more aware of where his head is as we stand there together with water pouring over our bodies enjoying the warmth. The way this got started I reported somewhat differently from the way it actually came about. I had been VERY worried about him going into dehydration because I couldn't get any liquid down him for about three days. Then I remembered way back in my professional studies that the human body absorbs about a pint when the skin is immersed in water. It was a chance, but I took it...I filled the lavatory basin with warm water and slowly lowered Suerte into it. He had been showing small signs of being cold during his feeding anyway, so being that he was slopped from head to toe(?) with the mush I made (he not eating much of it) I decided to wash him off instead of wiping his front with a damp rag. He had no objection to this, in fact, he seemed to enjoy it. He stood with his nostrils just above the water line and was as content as could be. I was elated because I believe he was also absorbing life preserving water through his skin.

The next day after his frantic (to me) feeding session I decided to do the same thing in the lavatory. However, by the time I got the basin filled I realized that it was time for my shower. Again, I tested the shower water to just a bit less than I like and we made it under light downpour together. Here is where I expected him to kick up a mighty fuss...animals in general do not like water pouring down on them. Didn't affect this little character in the least. We did this for four or five more days, but after the gentle warning about too many showers I stopped it for one night. Suerte was in the bathroom with me and when he heard the shower water go on and he wasn't a part of it, he made some audible noises and started looking around for me. HE WANTED to get in the shower and he was being left out. So, we have renewed the shower routine. He pretty much keeps his head out of the stream, but on occasion he flips his head around and directly into the water stream. I can't agree with the water cautions I've received. I think it's up to the bird, but you'll never know till it is tried.

Aspiration: I do not know, with one exception, anytime, in any position, with whatever food, with whatever utensil Suerte has suffered from getting food or liquid into his nostrils/lungs. In fact, he himself will bury his beaks almost to his eyeballs and pull back when he is out of breath. There was a time, however, with my old dropper that I did get water in his nostrils. He sputtered a time or two and I could hear the wheezing. Simple solution...turned him upside down with his talons in the air and his head completely down. Only a couple of seconds and he was back to normal. I didn't get excited -- I've done that several times with kids in my lifespan.

Now for what we are doing together at this time.... I finally got to the grocery store and picked up some frozen peas and canned corn. Also, over in the pet aisle they had a box of "Bird Gravel" which got added to his wild bird seed today. I know that grit is essential to my chickens but they get theirs from the dirt as they peck for food. It went down fine, and I think I remember reading somewhere that grit is good for wild birds, too, including pigeons. Comments please!

The peas and corn have been accepted with avarice by this incessantly hungry guy. I also have introduced cooked beans to his diet. At the moment I have only kidney beans in the house which are a bit too large for him to swallow, but cutting them in half...they go down easily. I do check his crop (craw) before feeding to make sure he isn't conning me into more when he really doesn't need it...he is a greedy little snip. And like I say, he is three times his size as when we first found him about ten days ago...boy, that's fast growth!

There isn't much more. He (and I) really enjoy bedtime when we get to sleep together for most of the night. He nestles down under my armpit and digs in until he is comfortable. I haven't so far rolled over him, but he is big enough now to let me know if I do. He takes up a good amount of my time, but I am finding it enjoyable as I see him in his progress. Hopefully some day I can get him to trust me enough to start flying. I'd like to emulate Pidgey's success with Unie if it could be possible.

So, until something new happens I'll sign off and go check to see if Suerte is warm enough in his cage AND if he is still on the perch (for balance training). S'Long

FS


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Frozen corn is what you would want, as it doesn't contain all the salt. And any grit you offer the bird goes in a separate dish so that they can take it when needed. A pigeon needs pigeon grit, hopefully hi-calcium, to help him digest his food, and add calcium to his diet and other minerals that it contains. The grit they make for small birds is really too fine to be of much good to him.
If he can't see, I don't see why he would ever fly. Besides, that would be very unsafe.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Frozen corn is what you would want, as it doesn't contain all the salt. And any grit you offer the bird goes in a separate dish so that they can take it when needed. A pigeon needs pigeon grit, hopefully hi-calcium, to help him digest his food, and add calcium to his diet and other minerals that it contains. The grit they make for small birds is really too fine to be of much good to him.
> If he can't see, I don't see why he would ever fly. Besides, that would be very unsafe.



Jay3

Thank you for the tip about the corn. I wasn't aware of canned corn being all that salty, and I usually give him about three kernels...that's all. However, it is no problem switching to frozen corn. The only setback I see there is all the preservatives and other foreign non-natural elements they add to the corn as it is blanched prior to freezing. Not an expert, but that may be worse than the salt content in a few kernels of canned corn. 

As far as a blind bird flying I would suggest you look up and read the true life story of Unie, a female blind pigeon who came to trust the person who found her (Pidgey) to the point she started flying. Then it became a challenge for the both of them. Unie lives to get into the air on her wings! Dangerous? YES, in capitol letters. Doable?...well it would not have been doable if he hadn't tried it. It is a GREAT story and accomplishment and an empathetic read. But can I do it? Not if I don't try, and of course, the bird has to be willing, too. Their story is posted somewhere on this forum...search for "Flying Blind Through Life: Unie's Story" under "Pigeon & Dove Stories." Start at the bottom of page 2.

About the grit: Suerte, to this point, will not eat anything I do not feed him with my own hand. I crush up chicken egg shells for him but I feel they are not dense enough to break down the bird seed I have been giving him. He gets very little in the pinches he gobbles up from my fingers. Here again, I am not an expert and I will continue cautiously according to your advice. Hopefully someday soon he will begin pecking for his food, but at this juncture he can't seem to get anything in his beak and down his throat unless I poke it down from my fingers.

I'm curious...how does he eject or ingest the grit? Do you know? Is it sand, or is the commercially prepared grit some type of actual food product that is or has been made super dense?

FS

OK, so I dusted off my powers of logic and reasoning and got out the "Gravel" box to read the ingredients...which were not posted on the box. But, on reading the directions Charcoal and Oyster shell calcium were mentioned...no indigestible sand-type pebbles. Having a pharmaceutical education I am going to assume that these are not harmful, even in larger amounts than what I feed him. The box says the contents are intended for parakeets, parrots, cockatoos, and the like. Don't see how Calcium and Charcoal could hurt a pigeon -- the garbage collector of the sky.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Young pigeons usually do not eat grit early on and they need to maturate into eating grit. If you leave this pigeon walk around free in your home there is a danger here because they are attracted to shiny objects like staples, paperchips, shiny tags on household items, anything different they will pick at so be careful here for if its eats something it should not it will die. It gets stuck in the gizzard and the only thing they can do to save it is with small equipment at a University Vet Hospital having a endoscope very expensive this is and it is hard to grab on to and surgery is out of the question for the gizzard does not heal good so they die. They love buttons and all kinds of things so I suggest have it in a secure safe place. I would drop the beans as a food source. When if flies very very careful of ceiling fans as well. There are many dangers for these young ones so bird proof your birdies area. It is best to keep it in a dog carrier or sturdy box or cage whatever you might dig up for it but secure it..Put some seeds down for it to begin to peck at as well as a container of water. Peas and Corn is just fine if it is heated but not to hot but give it free time to begin pecking at seed. Put water on your fingers and let it suck the water off your fingers-----forget the shower with it as it begins to drink water. Saying a prayer for the little one and hope all goes well. You can get a pigeon and dove mix at pet smart or a store like that and it will appreciate it. Pigeons are seed eaters and that"s the healthy way and do not "stretch" your brain so much as to decide "what" you think is best at this time --go by the proper directions for its care...Good luck. Sleep with your love one and not the bird but do keep it warm and feed a warm bird warm food so that it can digest properly. Like I said before I have my doubts because of your carefree attitude but we will see how all this works out. Remember it is just a baby so treat it as a baby and and not a adult pigeon. Thanks for saving it so far...How do you know it is blind? c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Frogstomper said:


> Jay3
> 
> Thank you for the tip about the corn. I wasn't aware of canned corn being all that salty, and I usually give him about three kernels...that's all. However, it is no problem switching to frozen corn. The only setback I see there is all the preservatives and other foreign non-natural elements they add to the corn as it is blanched prior to freezing. Not an expert, but that may be worse than the salt content in a few kernels of canned corn.
> 
> ...


It won't hurt him, but it also won't help him to digest his seeds.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Did you just called pigeons "garbage collectors"? Im sorry but I find that offensive to pigeons! I am sure street pigeons eat trash because it is the only thing available to them, not by choice! And the reason for this is because we humans have destroyed their habitats and they have no other choice than to live in dirty human cities! It's sad that you think so low of them.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

Wow, so much controversial information! Funny, because under my type of care and attitude Suerte is growing out of his britches. And the afore mentioned Unie WANTED to fly -- her passion with Pidgey learning and guiding her...it depends on the bird. They all have different personalities and desires. It is up to the keeper to recognize this. I would never try to force Suerte to fly or anything else unless he shows tendencies toward it himself. 

Frozen foods have plenty of additives to act as preservatives. The mfr has no way to control how their product is handled after it leaves the factory, so they do their best to protect that product (and their liability) by adding preservatives. Canned foods do not need the preservatives because they are heated to cook, then super heated again in pressurized cannisters to assure sterilization. The broth (with salt) is added just as a condiment -- better taste than without it. In addition to that, you don't feed a bird the whole can -- just a few kernels. 

Maybe it is my formal education that kicks in when I read some of these do's and don'ts. I get a little irritated reading what to me is an illogical premise. One version is talking to me like Suerte is not blind, and delineating all the precautions I should be aware of as if he were a sighted bird. Then the question of how do I know he is blind -- BECAUSE HE IS...duh!!!!

You have had about enough of me, so my postings will dwindle to almost nothing hereon. I do not understand the reason for all the disparaging remarks in the guise of help when this little guy is prospering so well in spite of the perceived "abuse" he is getting. So far, he loves every minute of it and seems overjoyed when he hears my voice, turning to my direction immediately and impatiently waiting for me to talk to him and guide him to where I am.

I have posted his progress to this point as an aid to others who might visit this forum site with questions they may have with their newly found blind pigeon/dove, and and some of what to expect as they try to learn how to care for it. Your more conventional methods are fine if the bird accepts that way of human thought. But if, as in my case, the bird has it's own personality and it emphatically differs from what you have experienced, another choice may be needed. So my offshoot methods may be helpful to some who are having trouble with the conventional approach of the "experts".

I keep getting warned that I may be condemning to death this little version of a Sherman tank, but really I think a hammer would be appropriately necessary in order to put him away.

S'Long

FS


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Glad your birdie is doing well and thanks for saving it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just giving you helpful info. What you do with it, or how you choose to take it, I cannot help that. You seem to take everything as a criticism, so I will not comment any more on this. Good luck with your pigeon.


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

JennyM said:


> Did you just called pigeons "garbage collectors"? Im sorry but I find that offensive to pigeons! I am sure street pigeons eat trash because it is the only thing available to them, not by choice! And the reason for this is because we humans have destroyed their habitats and they have no other choice than to live in dirty human cities! It's sad that you think so low of them.


Pigeons are not native to north america, or even to Europe. They are a wildly successful invasive species that was introduced via the escape or release of sport breeds such as Homers, Rollers, Tumblers, and Carriers.

They are native to the middle east and north Africa, where they nest in cliff sides and cave walls, which is why feral pigeons are called *feral* pigeons, and why you rarely see colonies anywhere but cities.


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## Frogstomper (Apr 9, 2016)

JennyM said:


> Did you just called pigeons "garbage collectors"? I'm sorry but I find that offensive to pigeons! I am sure street pigeons eat trash because it is the only thing available to them, not by choice! And the reason for this is because we humans have destroyed their habitats and they have no other choice than to live in dirty human cities! It's sad that you think so low of them.


YES, I MOST EMPHATICALLY DID CALL THEM "GARBAGE COLLECTORS", AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE. STRAIGHT AND SIMPLE!

I am through with this forum, especially this thread that I started. Yesterday I told myself that I was not going to post another comment here, but finally someone has added something to the mix that made some sense...thank you, Ramsey. I'm specifically responding directly to the quote above, but I include all the other inane pronouncements made in the guise of help which purport to be from sources of expertise...which are anything but!

When EVER have you seen a pigeon in the mountains, woods, or anywhere in the wild. YOU HAVEN'T! Having been introduced to the US far away from their NATIVE habitat these pigeons themselves have made the choice to dwell in urban areas and contributing to the blight. There are no boundaries prohibiting them from leaving, but they don't and won't. They choose the easy way to live...a wild setting is too much work with their lazy lifestyle for them to survive. 

Little Suerte is not going to be left to linger in inactivity and sloth. He is going to be encouraged to choose to go as far has he wants to and can do, and I will continue to build his trust in me so I can help him on his way.

Yes...It has to be obvious that I do not like pigeons -- they constantly make a terrible mess of my home and yard as they seek the easy way to make a nesting place under the eaves and tiles of my home. I shoot them with my BB gun to scare them away, however with the extreme numbers of them they still get some squabs into the world. 

You perceive me to be some kind of a monster because I have this attitude, but you cannot see in me that I am really a compassionate kind of guy. I took Suerte in because he was obviously in need of help. I was going to let him back into the pigeon environment BUT, I found him to be blind and helpless. We have bonded...a surprise to me, and I have committed myself to his welfare for as long as he lives. This does not change my opinion about these dirty and mostly free-loading creatures.

Also, the discussion about salt in canned corn shouts fatuous, idiotic affirmation as to the thought process that went into his absurd conclusion which he attempted to pass onto me as if he were an expert.

I went through six years of pharmacy school, forty three years of practice, and have a thorough nutritional background. I have a very high IQ and a continuing quest for intellectual curiosity. I graduated in the top 5% of my class at the university, having been elected to the Dean's List seven semesters out of my selected course of study in a very difficult profession. Let this be understood that I am not the stupe you have taken me to be, and I soon detect, like in the case of this thread, the imposters who dain to their own self aggrandizement.

And you are all sticking up for each other, refusing to accept anything I have discovered in my own exploratory adventure with this little abandoned waif. The first few days your comments were welcome and a blessing, but as Suerte and I progressed with each other I found that I had to improvise, some of it rather drastic compared to the norms you present, but it was the way to go with this particular little critter. I chose to describe the events as they occurred, but your support quickly turned to be critical of what had become a boon to HIS health and growth. From that point on, your "help" became uninformed criticisms...not helpful at all. And you all refused the precepts that I had discovered. It appeared to me that you were taking exception to anything I presented that didn't meet your template of approval. 

And the ignorant statement that blind birds can't fly...much too "dangerous!" Tell that to Helen Keller...life must have been pretty tenuous for her. Have you witnessed or read about any of her multitude of accomplishments?...borne both blind and deaf. And then you continued with this simpleminded position even AFTER I pointed you to the story of UNIE and her keeper, PIDGEY. Pretty close minded, I'd submit!

So, this is definitely my last post. Go ahead and be the "experts" as tentacles for others who may come to this forum with similar questions to mine. I'm leaving this thread active so they can have the option to obtain a different viewpoint from yours. I truly believe, and this applies to all animals both tame and wild, the keeper or handler should seek to discover what the bird wants to do, and explore ways to satisfy and complement his choice. Suerte flourished with what we ended up doing together. He very likely would have dwindled in strength and died if I had insisted on doing it strictly your way. I wonder how many baby pigeons have expired because the keeper, following your advice to the letter, did not attempt to do something different.

So, have it as good as you can in your disillusions.

FS


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

RamseyRingnecks said:


> Pigeons are not native to north america, or even to Europe. They are a wildly successful invasive species that was introduced via the escape or release of sport breeds such as Homers, Rollers, Tumblers, and Carriers.
> 
> They are native to the middle east and north Africa, where they nest in cliff sides and cave walls, which is why feral pigeons are called *feral* pigeons, and why you rarely see colonies anywhere but cities.


well, that makes it even worse! that mean they are on the streets eating trash because we humans have "used" them for sport! They are now seen as pests thanks to racers! how I hate this so-called "sport". 

Thanks for the clarification by the way!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Frogstomper said:


> I went through six years of pharmacy school, forty three years of practice, and have a thorough nutritional background. I have a very high IQ and a continuing quest for intellectual curiosity. I graduated in the top 5% of my class at the university, having been elected to the Dean's List seven semesters out of my selected course of study in a very difficult profession. Let this be understood that I am not the stupe you have taken me to be, and I soon detect, like in the case of this thread, the imposters who dain to their own self aggrandizement.


you may have a high IQ but you obviously don't know anything about pigeons! Too bad you didn't take the ADVISE given by the nice people on this forum; people who have successfully helped pigeons for many years. Seems like your ego is bigger than the need to help this bird. Sad.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Why waste your time on this failure thread. Let it roll..dear one---let it roll. Let them talk to themselves they seem to like that...Let it roll.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, Jenny, don't let it upset you. They just want to argue with any help given, as they know everything. Sad for the bird, I know.
Don't know why you get the idea of the high IQ though. If that were the case, then we wouldn't be arguing the safety or not of a blind bird flying, or why he wouldn't even want to. Spend your time on other threads.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just one more thing: Is that why you sort of insisted your pigeon is a mourning dove, cause you can't handle the fact that a baby "garbage collector" can be so adorable. Well, remember that next time you shoot another "garbage collector" there will be babies like youre's starving to death with no mom and dad around to feed them. I hope you will take care of them as well.

Regarding Unie's story: You will always read about the success stories, but never the one's that has a bad ending.

I wish you the best of luck with your pigeon and I really hope he has a good life with you and that you will in time change your mindset about pigeons.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You pigeon lovers are terrible ---lol lol---Ditto for me too.


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

JennyM said:


> well, that makes it even worse! that mean they are on the streets eating trash because we humans have "used" them for sport! They are now seen as pests thanks to racers! how I hate this so-called "sport".
> 
> Thanks for the clarification by the way!


My thoughts on racers are honestly mixed, and that's mostly because there are people who owe their lives to them.

Birds like JI Joe and Cher Ami have saved the lives of soldiers by delivering crucial information in the nick of time.

Homing pigeons were used by the coast guard because their eyes are better than ours and they had a much higher success rate spotting life jackets on stormy seas.

The reliability of homing pigeons is what we owe the spread and development of our infrastructure and society to before the internet was a thing.

They were not just an important part of our past. They are an important part of other countries present and our future.

Other nations less developed than the US still depend on pigeons for communication.

Pigeons are proving better than humans at spotting breast cancer, because there is a subtle commonality to the scans that they can see but we just can't pick up. 
Because homing pigeons have had that sort of intelligence and pattern mapping ability bred into them over hundreds of years by racers competing with their birds. 

Homing pigeon flocks are taking air samples in the UK with neat little analyzer packs on their back to check for pollutants.

Because the brains of elderly homing pigeons can deteriorate so similarly, they are an integral part of Alzheimers research.

While racing does have terrible consequences for individual birds, we as a species and society historically and currently owe them most of our advancements.


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