# Feral pigeon is very dull, just sitting, not eating or drinking on his own.



## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Hello everyone!

My society guard found a pigeon in the parking lot yesterday. The pigeon was dull, not flying, barely moving. He was like that since morning according to the guard.

The bird has been with me for almost a day now. There are no clear injuries or wounds. He has been sitting with his head down and his hind portion touching the floor. He tries to shift around sometimes but is only managing to move backwards or sideways without lifting his hind portion. He has fallen on his side a few times while fidgeting around and has trouble regaining his balance.

Seeds and water are kept near him but he has shown no interest in it. Yesterday, I dipped his beak in a water+sugar+salt solution a few times, eventually, he took it 4-5 times which I thought was encouraging. It is the start of winters here (India). I figured he may be cold and placed a heating pad (just warm) near him. However, he hasn't taken anymore water on his own. I have been feeding him 2-3 ml water at a time using a dropper. Have tried my best to ensure he doesn't aspirate from this. I also fed him 25 defrosted peas in the evening yesterday and again this morning. He hasn't resisted much but that's possibly because of his sickness. He has passed poop 4 times (Will attach photos).

A vet I know (not an avian vet, there are none nearby) has suggested keeping the bird hydrated and warm but hasn't identified his ailment or prescribed any medicine.

Is there anything else I should be doing? How many times should I feed him water and how much? I will appreciate any help or suggestions. Hope he makes it 🙏.

PS- I should mention that I already have a pigeon at my place, a rock pigeon, with coordination issues, whom I had rescued last year. He is a member of the family now and stays in my room. I have kept him in a cage for now as I don't know what's wrong with this new one.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He looks very weak and is producing starvation droppings. You can feed him 50 peas 3 times daily, total of about 150 per day. Is that an injury to his wing? You can also check with a flashlight deep inside the beak for yellowish growths. Canker is a very common disease, but can be treated easily. Keep him on a soft blanket, the newspaper might be a bit slippery.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Marina B said:


> He looks very weak and is producing starvation droppings. You can feed him 50 peas 3 times daily, total of about 150 per day. Is that an injury to his wing? You can also check with a flashlight deep inside the beak for yellowish growths. Canker is a very common disease, but can be treated easily. Keep him on a soft blanket, the newspaper might be a bit slippery.


Thank you so much for helping Marina. I will increase the quantity of peas. The wing is not injured as far as I can tell. I did look for cankers yesterday but will use a flashlight and check again to be sure. Will switch the paper to a soft cloth too. Could you please guide me about the quantity of water I should feed him at a time and how often? He is not taking it himself.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Feeding water with a syringe is dangerous, he can aspirate. Rather keep on dipping the tip of the beak in a small bowl of water until he drinks. Peas have a lot of moisture, so don't be alarmed if he does not drink a lot. So many things can be wrong with this one unfortunately.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Also, keep him seperate from your other pigeon and wash your hands after handling him.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Marina B said:


> Feeding water with a syringe is dangerous, he can aspirate. Rather keep on dipping the tip of the beak in a small bowl of water until he drinks. Peas have a lot of moisture, so don't be alarmed if he does not drink a lot. So many things can be wrong with this one unfortunately.


Okay, I will keep showing water in a bowl to him. Have been feeding 50 peas as you suggested. His poop look better today. He is still dull, not lifting his body up, just shuffling around a bit and falling over sometimes (Attaching latest photos). Today he resisted more while I was feeding him peas. I just hope he gets his strength back. There must be a family waiting for him 😞.

Have been trying to limit my interaction with my other pigeon Buddhu as much as possible, keeping him separate and washing hands after every handling of the new one.

I am so thankful to you for your guidance. Bless you ❤.

Oh and I looked for canker again, did not notice anything out of the ordinary. Have attached a photo of the oral cavity, it's not the best one but attaching it nevertheless. Hope I am not missing anything there.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, thanks so much for helping him.

I watched the photos, unfortunately it's not easy to understand what is wrong, there could be many options.

As your society guard found him in a parking lot, a severe concussion/head trauma could be one of the options. Maybe a car hit him.
Here is a link with helpful information: 

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/concussion.htm

Keep him in a quiet room, in a comfortable place, in the dim light. 

Pigeons suffering from a concussion should not be kept on a heat pad but the problem is that unfortunately we don't know what is wrong with him... 

If you have a vitamin supplement you can put it in his drinking water, it will help him to stay as strong as possible. 

Check carefully his body for injuries, sometimes they are really hard to see because covered by feathers. If you see any wound you can wash it with a saline solution, disinfect it with something like Betadine 10% then put an antibiotic cream. I usually disinfect and put the cream twice a day. If you notice a bad smell it means that the wound is becoming infected and so an oral antibiotic is absolutely and urgently needed. 
He could also have internal injuries, unfortunately in that case there is nothing you can do.

As I said concussion is just one of the options...it could be a disease, etc.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Colombina said:


> Hi, thanks so much for helping him.
> 
> I watched the photos, unfortunately it's not easy to understand what is wrong, there could be many options.
> 
> ...


Hello Colombina, thank you for replying ❤.

He is in a big cardboard box next to my bed. I keep it partially covered so he doesn't get disturbed. I checked again for wounds and injuries. I felt his skeletal structure below the belly region jutting out but it could just be that he is emaciated (attaching a photo). I went through the concussion info you linked to. You are right, it could be that. It is sad that there's no way to determine the cause of his condition.Should I try the homeopathic treatment for concussion suggested in your link?

I hope he starts drinking water on his own. He hasn't taken any today other that the little bit I force fed him this morning.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

You're welcome 😊. 

Honestly I have never tried those homeopathic remedies with pigeons (I only used arnica for my beloved cat Kira) so I can't give a personal opinion. 
You can read some information about arnica here, they could help you in taking a decision :

Herbal and holistic remedies for pigeons https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=38713

Have you looked for bird vitamins?

You could add a bit of honey in his drinking water. 

I watched the photo that you posted from my smartphone but it's not really clear so I have a question : how does his vent area look like? Is it dirty? Red?


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Colombina said:


> You're welcome 😊.
> 
> Honestly I have never tried those homeopathic remedies with pigeons (I only used arnica for my beloved cat Kira) so I can't give a personal opinion.
> You can read some information about arnica here, they could help you in taking a decision :
> ...


I will read up some more on the homeopathic treatment for concussion for pigeons and decide. I have used Thuja for my other pigeon when he had developed a growth on his head last year which again could not be diagnosed due to lack of resources. Thankfully, the growth did shrink and eventually fall off. From what I can recall, I did not give any other oral medicine to him, just used some topical cream. So Thuja must have worked for him.

I have multi-vitamin syrup Vimeral which I had got for Buddhu (my other pigeon) last year. Since, the sick one is not taking water at all, I laced the peas with a couple of drops this morning. Could you give me an idea of the dosage of multi-vitamin.

I am attaching another photo of his vent area. It was dirty the day I took him in. I have tried to clean it with water but it keeps getting dirty as he doesn't lift his hind portion and sometimes drags himself over it. It is also reddish. He must have rubbed it against the ground when he was in the parking or so I assumed.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Poor bird, sounds as if he is paralized. If you think he is not getting in enough water, you can put some in the front of his beak with a syringe like you did before. The vitamins you can then just dissolve into the water according to instructions. You can also add some apple cider vinegar in the water (5 ml of acv to 1 litre of water). That helps to restore the good gut bacteria.

That growth you mentioned, must have been pigeon pox (spread by infected mosquitoes). Thuja is used to treat that and then it takes a couple of weeks for the pox to dry up and fall off.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Check the instructions on the vitamins package. Usually they are weekly treatments (1 or 2 or 3 days a week depending on the brand) but the vet told me that it's ok giving them for longer periods (like a week) in case of sick birds.

Here you can read some informations about concussion/head trauma (in case it's really a severe case of it), I'm going to copy a passage from it:


http://www.petdr.com/main.cfm?id=51854

"Since the brain lies inside the bony skull, any bleeding or swelling that occurs will put downward pressure on the brain. This downward pressure from the bleeding or swelling on the brain squeezes or compresses the brain impairing its normal functioning ability. Severe bleeding or swelling can result in damage that is either temporary or permanent".

If arnica really helps to relieve swelling you could maybe try to give it concurrently with hypericum as suggested in the link. Unfortunately, as I said, I have never used them so I can't confirm if they really work or not. I cared about a dove who had concussion (he looked like a doll and had a swollen eye) but I didn't try them.

It would be important to keep his vent area clean (I know that it's complicated in his condition...) because dry poops could create problems in pooping. You could try to gently clean it with cotton pads (you know, the ones for makeup) and warm water or, if you can find something similar, with a spray like this one :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dermidine-Skin-Spray-60ml/dp/B07CNDZX1C

It's a really good product. 

Another question : the vent area looks also swollen other than reddish ? Sorry but I can't understand it from the picture.
The cloaca is not prolapsed?


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Marina B said:


> Poor bird, sounds as if he is paralized. If you think he is not getting in enough water, you can put some in the front of his beak with a syringe like you did before. The vitamins you can then just dissolve into the water according to instructions. You can also add some apple cider vinegar in the water (5 ml of acv to 1 litre of water). That helps to restore the good gut bacteria.
> 
> That growth you mentioned, must have been pigeon pox (spread by infected mosquitoes). Thuja is used to treat that and then it takes a couple of weeks for the pox to dry up and fall off.


I fed him 3 drops of Vimeral in 3.5 ml of water. Could you help me interpret the instructions on the bottle so it's suitable for pigeons. It mentions dose for different ages of poultry birds and in terms of /100 birds. I'll attach a photo of the label.

Vimeral has B12 which I have seen being successfully used in nerve damage cases of dogs and cats. Maybe it will help my pigeon too 🙏.

I'll give him ACV next time I feed him water.

I'll attach a couple of pictures of my other pigeon from the time he had that growth. It looked nothing like the pigeon pox photos I looked up online. I am just glad he recovered from it.

Thanks again and send blessings my pigeons way.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Colombina said:


> Check the instructions on the vitamins package. Usually they are weekly treatments (1 or 2 or 3 days a week depending on the brand) but the vet told me that it's ok giving them for longer periods (like a week) in case of sick birds.
> 
> Here you can read some informations about concussion/head trauma (in case it's really a severe case of it), I'm going to copy a passage from it:
> 
> ...


The instructions aren't clear for pigeons and there's no mention of duration. I'll attach the label photo. Could you help me interpret it for pigeons? Have requested Marina too.

If there's no improvement by tomorrow, I'll arrange the homeopathy meds for concussion. Will read up about side effects if any till then.

I don't see any swelling in the vent area, no prolapse either. The skeletal structure I feel on touching that area just stand out to me. The area was dirty. I have cleaned it a bit with water but it isn't enough. I'll use warm water tomorrow during day time. Will look for the spray as well.

I tried to get him to stand with support a little while ago. Attaching a photo. His upper body tends to droop down. I have set down on the floor. He is trying to move around a little bit at the moment. He is able to stumble ahead but isn't able to lift his torso and head. His tail gets stuck at awkward angles too sometimes. Don't know what to make of it all 😞.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

He is gone 😢. Passed away a short while ago. May his soul rest in peace.

I am so grateful to both of you for all your guidance and your time. It helped so much ❤.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm so sorry you lost him. Maybe he was just old. One always assume they are sick or injured when you find them. Thanks for taking him in and all the care you have given him.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm really really sorry...maybe he had internal injuries or maybe a disease, etc. 
He spent his last days with a loving and caring person like you, I think that It's a really important thing. I'm sure he is now happily flying with all the birds we lost.

I know that you are now feeling really bad but maybe the information could help you with Buddhu or in the future with other rescued birds.
Here I found the duration of the vitamin treatment "5 to 7 days" (so it's a monthly treatment), you have to click on "read more" :


https://in.virbac.com/home/poultry/...iquid-anti-stress-feed-supplement-for-poultry

Here I found the dosage for pigeons (check the third picture) :

https://www.amazon.in/Virbac-Vimeral-Cattle-Poultry-Feeding/dp/B07CQ13JPX

"7ml for 1 litre water for 100 pigeons" 


So, if I'm not wrong (I'm not good in math..), 1ml for approximately 140 ml water (2 ml for 280 ml water and so on). 

Anyway, stay strong. 
A big hug.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Thank you so much both of you 😘. I hope I did not hurt him more than I helped him. But this forum is amazing and truly a life saver. You all helped save Buddhu last year and keep this new one well fed and rested. 

If I may pick your brains just a little more, could you guide me how to take better care of Buddhu? I have never had birds in the house before him. Feel free to take your time or direct me elsewhere.

Buddhu stays in my room. Is free to move about. Flies up to his box on the top of the almirah or to the sunlight (barely get any sun from there as we are surrounded by buildings). Atleast once or twice in a day, he loses his balance, falls from the bed or his perch and goes rolling around the floor and I have to stabilize him. The floor is tiled so that prevents him from regaining balance too I suppose. On one occasion, he had access to the balcony and disappeared. I eventually found him under a car in the parking 8-9 hours later. Since then, I have given up on the idea of ever setting him free as he wasn't able to fly away. But I wonder if he is deficient in something and I am not doing all I should be.

1. His daily diet is a seed mix (photo, using this as couldn't find a pigeon one in local stores). He eats it up except for the big seeds like sunflower. Have tried fruits and veggies in the past to no success. What could I be doing different? Regular supplementation? Try fruits and veggies again and persist this time?
2. Couldn't find grit anywhere until now. Should I be including that in his daily diet?

I am attaching a photo of how he gets sometimes especially before he tumbles over. This happens for a few secs 3-4 times a day. Also, another photo of his wing and tail feathers that I feel could be healthier (?).

Again, my heartfelt thanks to you both.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I can't remember your previous post, did Buddah had PMV when he was found? The first photo of the head looks like PMV, maybe recurring when he is under stress.

He will definitely benefit from vitamins in the drinking water, especially calcium with added Vit D3. He does not get exposure to sunlight, in nature birds get their Vit D3 from sunlight exposure. His body needs D3 to absorb calcium.

You can put the grit in a seperate bowl next to his food and he will help himself to it.

My pigeons love spinach. It sometimes takes a while for them to get used to it, so just keep on leaving some for him and I'm sure he will eventually start eating it.

If you can get cuttlefishbone, they also like pecking at it and this will also be a good source of calcium.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

You can add to that seed mix dry legumes (the ones for humans that you can find at supermarkets) like mung beans, small lentils and peas.
You could also try to look for a mixture for canaries containing dehydrated fruits. Even my birds don't eat fruits, vegetables or berries....Anyway, you can give it another try : spinach as suggested but also apple, etc. 

As suggested leave him always available cuttlebone, just cut it in small pieces with scissors and put it in a separate bowl. You could try to look online for pigeons pickstones, they are healthy products, they could contain oyster shells (calcium), insoluble grit (the small stones which help to grind up the seeds), minerals, clay, anise, etc. If you find it, I will explain how to give it to him. 

Also regularly give him vitamins (the ones you have contain vit D3) and twice a week ACV water.

If you could find them, even probiotics could be helpful.

I don't remember the old thread. If he is a pmv pigeon, it's important to avoid any situation of stress and to maintain a daily routine. 

Maybe the feathers look this way because he hits them against the floor when he falls from the bed or perch.


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## rshaud (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm so sorry that he died and it was kind of you to try to help him. In the future it may be best to try to find a wildlife rehabilitation group in your area to help you. They often are quite adept at diagnosis, can dispense the appropriate medications and show you how to administer them. We have the wonderful Wild Bird Fund here in NYC. Trying to guess what is wrong and trying hit or miss treatments with birds that require immediate and effective treatments unfortunately often end in the bird's death.
It would also help if you fill in your location when signing up so we could direct you immediately to rehabbers in your area who can help. The back and forth determining such things wastes precious time. We've all blundered through our first few sick birds and learn hard lessons but we get better and more effective in our efforts. Keep trying.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

Yes, although not diagnosed, his symptoms pointed towards PMV (Attaching photo from that time). This was June 2018. I was not aware of this forum back then. I consulted the vet of a local hospital I volunteer at and he prescribed antibiotics, vitamins and anti allergic. Though he admitted to not being well versed in bird ailments and treatments. I thought I had no other option.

I wrote about him here last winters when he was vomiting seeds and unable to keep his food down. You all helped so much and I am sure if not for this forum, he wouldn't have made it.

I will give him the Vimeral syrup as per the dosage explained to me by you and Colombina (5-7 days/ month). It's below 30 deg here now, so I am also trying to take him to the roof for 30-45 mins during daytime. It is hard to do that during summers as it gets really hot here.

I have come across these products online based on what you both suggested. Please help me pick the right ones.

1. The Birds Company Grit, Digestive Calcium Stones for All Birds, Finches, Parakeets & Parrots, 450 g https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07MQWJK7H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_2bQ1DbC3JZ7H2
2. https://petshopindia.com/versele-la...Shell sand&description=true&sub_category=true
3. Pet Care International Calci-Grit to Provide Essential Calcium for Healthy Bird Digestive System Healthcare (1000 g) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07J5TC34Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ADQ1DbZYQCD5K
4. https://petshopindia.com/versele-oropharma-clay-block-bird-food-550gm
(This is the only think I found close to a pickstone)

Cuttlefish bones are also available.

I have mixed red lentil, split mung and black gram in Buddhu's feed today and offered spinach, carrots, coriander. He hasn't taken the veggies yet.


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## Rosy2016 (Oct 16, 2018)

rshaud said:


> I'm so sorry that he died and it was kind of you to try to help him. In the future it may be best to try to find a wildlife rehabilitation group in your area to help you. They often are quite adept at diagnosis, can dispense the appropriate medications and show you how to administer them. We have the wonderful Wild Bird Fund here in NYC. Trying to guess what is wrong and trying hit or miss treatments with birds that require immediate and effective treatments unfortunately often end in the bird's death.
> It would also help if you fill in your location when signing up so we could direct you immediately to rehabbers in your area who can help. The back and forth determining such things wastes precious time. We've all blundered through our first few sick birds and learn hard lessons but we get better and more effective in our efforts. Keep trying.


Thank you for your suggestions.

There are no wildlife rehab centres in my city. No well known avian vets, no diagnostic facility for animals. This forum helped me so much with Buddhu so I hoped for the same this time.
I will update my location in my profile.

Yes, it is so disheartening that innocent beings have to suffer so we can learn and get better at caring for them.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Does he like the dry legumes (lentils etc) that you added to the mix?

You could try to look for a mixture for canaries containing dehydrated fruits, I know that it's not like eating "real" fruits or vegetables but... It's better than nothing. When I tried to give fruits and vegetables (apple, courgette/zucchini, etc) as suggested by my vet I had to throw them away because my birds didn't want to eat them... Btw, fruits and vegetables easily get moldy with humidity and hot weather so be careful, don't leave them available for long time.

I gave a look to the products that you found online.

The number 2 is a bottom cage/litter so I would not buy it. It's too thin, it's not good for pigeons. This kind of product is usually used for canaries cage, etc. In the same page I gave a look to the related products. I have both Oropharma Calci-Lux (it's a water soluble calcium supplement) and Oropharma Probi-Zyme (probiotics), they are good products. 

The number 3 contains both insoluble grit (which helps to grind up the seeds and so the digestion) and soluble grit (calcium). It could be a helpful product.

The number 4 is a pickstone (there are many kinds of blocks with different ingredients), it also contains clay (it has many benefits for birds).

The number 1 is an insoluble grit added with cuttlebone. I read in the "customer reviews" that people gave it to chickens so it could be too big for pigeons.

I would try the numbers 3 (Calci-Grit) and 4 (pickstone). Of course, as I have never used them I can't know if they really are good products... If you buy the pickstone, I will explain you how to give it to him. 
You could also try cuttlebone.


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