# I found a Pigeon



## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

I found a Pigeon yesterday in the middle of the street on rush hour.
I had to stop my car and run to pick him up before it got ran over.
I placed him in a box and gave him fresh water and uncooked rise.
He seems to be fine except he is only standing in one leg.
I checked the leg that he is pulling up and it seems fine. I don’t think is broken and there is nothing attached to it.
He stands in one leg all of the time and I have seen him loose balance and kind of fall but he find balance by stretching a wing.
I have several dogs at home and I am also concern with reports of pigeons spreading virus and bacteria.
I want to help this poor bird as much as possible and your advice will be appreciated...
No concerns over the dogs harming the pigeon, I am keeping him in a safe place. 

Thanks all..

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thank you for rescuing the pigeon and Welcome to PT.
Pigeons standing in one leg is very common wen they are relaxed and happy. I guess he is happy you found him. 
If no injury, swollen bone, joints..he mey just be starving.
Pgeon/dove seeds or wild bird seeds are best for him.Rice has not much proteins. 
Is he drinking and eating on his own?
You can feed him defrosted peas by hand.
Here's a link:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*It is crucial to follow the advice on the link FIRST 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html

*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Looking better.*

Thanks for your Reply Dima and everyone else.
Pigeon is looking normal. he is eating and drinking o his own.
The leg issue is ongoing.
He is only standing on one leg and i don;t think is out of happyness, there is something wrong with the leg.
I got him a bag of seeds and grains from petco brandname Brown's and he loves it.
The main issue is that i can;t have him for too long and I want to make sure he is healthy before i let him fly again..
The concern is that i don't know how to determinide that he is ready to be on his own.
I was thinking of taking him to a pigeon rescue place and have them release him when he is ready and healthy..
What do you all think?

Thanks



Dima said:


> Thank you for rescuing the pigeon and Welcome to PT.
> Pigeons standing in one leg is very common wen they are relaxed and happy. I guess he is happy you found him.
> If no injury, swollen bone, joints..he mey just be starving.
> Pgeon/dove seeds or wild bird seeds are best for him.Rice has not much proteins.
> ...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Have you checked for any swelling at the joints: ankle, knee, hip. 

Get a big towel. Put it on your lap. Take the bird and gently put him upside down on your towel betweek your legs . Upside down means on her back, hold him with one hand and with the other hand cover him with the towel ( especialy the head - that way he will not struggle) leaving the legs up. Then you can check by palpating the joints and bones with your fingers, if any swelling, by comparing with the healthy joints /bones from the other leg.

Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis) can cause swelling.

If we find out what's the problem with your pigeon, then you can treat him yourself and then release him. Most of rescues centres are euthanizing them. Unless you tell us where you are about and we can send you to a pigeon friendly centre.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for your reply!
I am located in Miami Florida.
I will take the time tomorrow and follow your instructions.
"Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis)," Should I be concern with any bacteria or contagious infections?
Thanks for the info on the Rescue centers...

Joe Black...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> I am located in Miami Florida.
> I will take the time tomorrow and follow your instructions.
> "Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis)," Should I be concern with any bacteria or contagious infections?
> ...


They are not transmitable to humans, unless you eat the poop and drink from their bowl. LOL Just normal hygiene, wash your hands after you handle the pigeon.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's the list of vets and centres:
http://www.pigeons.biz/pigeons/prd.htm

Thank you for caring for your rescue so far.
Keep us updated.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Update on wingy!
I get home today and like every day the first thing I do is look inside the box where Wingy has been re-having for the past couple of days and the box was empty.
I was in shock for a moment thinking that something wrong had happen.
I look around the house and I spotted wingy chilling on top of some old doors I had removed from one of the bedrooms.
I can see the he keeps on favoring the right leg and is keeping the left leg kind of flex half way.
I had a little bit of trouble chasing him around the house to place him back on his Rehab-room.
I am not sure if Wingy is completely heal but I think is almost time to release him into the wild.
I am thinking of looking for a park or an area was many pigeon reside to make it easy on him to adapt and for the company.
Maybe find a rescue place in Miami and let them take care of him for a few more days till he is completely healthy.
My wife had told me yesterday that wingy was making some humming noise, that it seems that he was asking to be release.
I am not sure if this is normal or not but I noticed that when he is hungry he make humming noise and his chest become kind of inflated...
I will post another update tomorrow and possible pictures...


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## madietherian (Nov 28, 2012)

good day sir. i also have a racing pigeon. but im not that expert. i think your pigeon has a pair. because when pigeon is humming they are calling her or his partner. because pigeon has a homing instinct maybe he searching water or food when u found him. about one foot standing of pigeon it is normal.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I hope you don't release him untill he can stand and put weight on his foot.
The fact that he is out of box and leg half way stretched, it's a good sign of getting better.
When you say Humming, you mean he is coo-ing. If he coos is great. He is happy. I have rescued pigeons and i know that the moment the start cooing they are feeling better, comfortable with new surroundings. Of course he/she could call for the mate.
You can put a mirror in the box, i hope he has room and some light to eat. Mirror will keep him/her company. You may find out that way if your rescue is a male or female, depending how it acts in from of the mirror. Usually female like to admire themselves ( lol- nothing new) or nibble at their reflection in the mirror. Males usually coo and dance.

Have you seen a flock in the area where you found him? When he is healed you can release him in that flock. A rehab or rescue centre will not release him in the same place. So it will be sad if she/he had a mate. 

Rescue centres, once they get the pigeon, it's theirs, they may tell you they released him but you never know what they did. Here in Toronto the rescued pigeon i sent, and i will never send any to them, they assured me that they will call me to release it. They never did, even though i folowed up with them, they said there were too busy In APRIL and to call back in November.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

How is his poop. We're poop freaks on PT; from the poop we can tell if the bird is healthy.
Aren't you going to post a pic. Is he a feral looking like?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Should i post a nice picture of his poop?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you.
I am sad that he will lose his partner..
He stand on that one leg and walks with that one leg.. I think there is something wrong with the leg for sure.. I checked it a couple of times and i moved it some in the same motion as the other leg and it seems normal to me



madietherian said:


> good day sir. i also have a racing pigeon. but im not that expert. i think your pigeon has a pair. because when pigeon is humming they are calling her or his partner. because pigeon has a homing instinct maybe he searching water or food when u found him. about one foot standing of pigeon it is normal.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you think you could post a picture of the pigeon? I'm concerned that you've got a young pigeon which is why he was in the middle of the street.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Yes please, do post a picture of the pigeon so we have an idea of its health (eyes, posture, signs of injuy, etc)

Thank you for caring for the little fella. Please don't be in a hurry to let him go. There is a reason why your paths crossed, and you did the right thing by helping him. I hope you can help him all the way, not just halfway... do make sure he is really alright and ready (and healthy) before you part ways with him.

I also hope you've read the other threads (sticky) about rescuing a pigeon and the care needed. Please keep him warm and safe - the works (heating pad, pigeon feed, clean water, grit), away from danger (dogs, swirling ceiling fan, buckets of water, etc)

Sorry to be nagging, I just want to put it out there that taking in a rescue means a dedicated responsibility - one undertaken by a person who is willing and able to go all the way to make sure the rescue is (and will be) ok... not a half-hearted attempt. I've seen too many post about people saving a little fella and then along the way, lost interest and release the bird even though it's clearly not ready to be fending for itself.

Then again, if you are a dedicated person, I do salute you and thank you for the efforts and care you have given to this bird. Karma works in many ways. Thank you for caring.

Now, please post the picture. Lol


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
Here is an update on wingy..
Her leg looks much better. She is walking on both legs 95% of the time an picks it up very little when she is standing still...
She is also eating well and drinking well...
A couple of days ago she started making humming noise when she was hungry or wanted to let me know that something was going on…
I had planned to let her go on Monday but I realized that some of the feather from her tale seems plugged out was probably the reason why she landed on the streets unable to fly.
I decided to keep her for a few more days till her tail feathers grow property.
I noticed that she was not to happy living inside a 15x15 cardboard box and I bought her a good size cage from a pet store and she loves it...
I take her outside in the morning for some sun-bath and placed the cage by the sliding door the rest of the day for a priceless ocean view...
I think wingy will do fine and I just hope her tale grows fast…
I will be posting some pictures when a get a chance...
Later...

Joe


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Thank you Joe for the update.

I hope she finds health and happiness with you, and you with her. Keep the updates coming (and pictures too!)


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks Sassy,
I will be posting pics soon. I know I been saying that but i get home a little late sometimes and i don;t want to trouble her with flash and pics..
I think on Sat or Sun i will have the time..
She is doing fine, the tail is growing, I will make sure she is well before letting her go..

Thanks

Joe



Miss-Sassypants said:


> Thank you Joe for the update.
> 
> I hope she finds health and happiness with you, and you with her. Keep the updates coming (and pictures too!)


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*WinGy*

Hello everyone...
I think the time has come to finally return my beloved Wingy to the free life that she wells deserves...
AS many of you know Wingy and I found each other a month ago in a busy street of Miami Dade County under circumstances that she won’t like to remember...

Wingy has recovered completely from a Bad leg and a tail that had all of the feathers removed.
This last 30 days wingy and I have built a great relationship and have learned to communicate with each other very well.

AS we get closer to Wingy departure I have become more concern with her well-being.
I want to make sure that once she is release she is going to be ok...
I will like everyone’s advice on the best possible way to release wingy.
My wife and I have spoken about two possible scenarios;

1: Release Wingy in our back Yard and hope that she will stay around close by and that she will come and eat every day as many other birds that we have been feeding since she has been with us, none of the birds are pigeon they are White-winged Dove.

2: Find a Park or a location where there is lots of pigeons like her and release her there where she will find birds like her and hope that she will find food and shelter.

I live in a residential neighborhood with lots of yard space and trees and I can also build a bird house and bring a couple of pigeons like her if she will stay around the area without the need of keeping her restricted to a cage, I want to make sure she is free….

Again, I want to be clear that even do I am worry about Wingy’s safety I want to make sure that I do what’s best for her…

Your opinion will be appreciated...

Joe


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

That does not look like a wild pigeon. Unfortunately it does not have a band so it is not possible to know for sure or find the owner. It is an adult, though, and looks like one of the "Thief Pouters". It has the big neck and different shaped beak than a wild/feral pigeon. Please don't release this bird.


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## PigeonMom86 (Dec 11, 2012)

I would have to agree with woodnative. This bird does not look wild to me either. If you live in the Miami Dade area, maybe you could put a nice flight cage outside for Wingy to stay in. She would be outside and have a large space, but would be protected from predators.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for your reply..
Here are some other pictures of Wingy.

Joe




Woodnative said:


> That does not look like a wild pigeon. Unfortunately it does not have a band so it is not possible to know for sure or find the owner. It is an adult, though, and looks like one of the "Thief Pouters". It has the big neck and different shaped beak than a wild/feral pigeon. Please don't release this bird.





PigeonMom86 said:


> I would have to agree with woodnative. This bird does not look wild to me either. If you live in the Miami Dade area, maybe you could put a nice flight cage outside for Wingy to stay in. She would be outside and have a large space, but would be protected from predators.


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## PigeonMom86 (Dec 11, 2012)

She is very beautiful! If you don't want her, you can send her my way!  I am not a pigeon expert, but she almost looks like she could be a cross with an Old German Owl pigeon with how short her beak is.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow. It is beautiful and ...such a warrior posture


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks Dina..
Whats your advice on how to release her...
Thanks for all of your help, you have been great..

Joe 




Dima said:


> Wow. It is beautiful and ...such a warrior posture


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I just want to make sure that she is safe..
I will like for her to be free and not caged for life....


Joe 




PigeonMom86 said:


> She is very beautiful! If you don't want her, you can send her my way!  I am not a pigeon expert, but she almost looks like she could be a cross with an Old German Owl pigeon with how short her beak is.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That isn't a feral pigeon. The bird was raised in a loft and somehow got out and got lost. It isn't normal for you to have been able to catch him so easily, unless he was sick, or weak from starvation, which I would guess is probably what was wrong with him. Because he was was raised in captivity, he doesn't know anything about finding food on his own. Most birds that come from situations like that, will starve to death on the streets. If you release him, he will die of starvation out there.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looks like some kind of show homer or maybe a cross. He needs to be in a loft situation, as he can't live in the wild.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

G Thanks Jay..
You are giving me little choice...

Joe



Jay3 said:


> That isn't a feral pigeon. The bird was raised in a loft and somehow got out and got lost. It isn't normal for you to have been able to catch him so easily, unless he was sick, or weak from starvation, which I would guess is probably what was wrong with him. Because he was was raised in captivity, he doesn't know anything about finding food on his own. Most birds that come from situations like that, will starve to death on the streets. If you release him, he will die of starvation out there.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Look at that neck. Some sort of pouter breed. Possibly a cross. Think of it the same way you would think of feral cats. Some survive wild for generations. However, this was comparable to a kitten that was raised in a home and got lose. Luckily you found it, but it would not be able to survive in the wild.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Here is one webpage on horseman thief pouters: http://www.blueridgebiological.com/IHTPC.htm
Circus lofts has a lot of information on some of the different pouters....may be worth contacting th owner (Alan B) to figure out what it is. If you want to keep him/her he will need to be in a loft/coop, preferably with a mate and possibly more of his own kind. This would have to be predator proof, dry inside, have a nice sunny flight area with strong, small mesh etc. He/she will need a good pigeon grain mix, grit, and fresh water. With time you could let him/her out under supervision if you teach him/her to respond to a whistle or other feed call (basically teachign them to come in for food and flying them hungry). If you go that route and move forward you will probably have a lot of question....feel free to ask. Finding a thief pouter hobbyist in your area would help you to see them in action and answer some of your questions.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> Thanks Dina..
> Whats your advice on how to release her...
> Thanks for all of your help, you have been great..
> 
> Joe


Hi Joe,Taking into account that is not a wild pigeon, i would not release it.
From my sad experience in the first year of breeding pigeons, i had my pigeons ( who grew in captivity) which liked to stay on the roof of the house. I wanted them to be free at least 1-2 hrs a day. For many reasons from many i had only three are left. They would get scared from anything: squirrels, thunder, lawn more etc..and flew away( not all at once) , never came back. We have 250-300 pigeons in less than 1 km away from my home. I have never found any of my pigeons there. For some reason they do not mingle with the ferals.
I also rescued 9 breed sick pigeons who were dump were the 300 pigeon flock was ( parking lot). The breed pigeons were dump by a light pole and they did not move close to the ferals (which were 20 meters away from them). The ferals get seeds every day from kind people, but sick and hungry the way there were, the 9 of them never dared to move away from the place were dropped. There was no way for them to survive on their own. 
The sad part is that your pigeon is only one and as it was mentioned, he most likely will not stay with ferals and one pigeon alone is sitting duck for a predator. 
One day a white breed pigeon came by my aviary/cage. This beautiful white pigeon was lost. Again it did not chose to go were the ferals are, but it looked for something that it may seems like home to her. Now she is part of my family of pigeons. That's why most of people find themselves with breed pigeons in their backyards. They look for a place similar with their home and chances of survival alone are slim. I have a huge hawk coming by every day checking on my pigeons and a cats coming every day by the aviary.

It's tough..i know what you feel when you think about him being free. 
Someone already asked if you would like to it away. If you would like to keep him, the best is to find a mate and build a coop with an aviary ( they should not be released, unless supervised and trained to trap; if one get attacked the other one will suffer- pigeons mate for life, of course after a period of grief they may chose another partner if there is available). I am thinking that if you give it for adoption, most likely he/she will be happy with other pigeons around, but again if it's some kind of homing pigeon, it should not be released, since it will be looking for his initial home loft to come back ( and who knows how far it may be from the place where you are or it will be, if you give him away), unless it was kept for many month/yrs and trained well.
Also you can keep it as a pet. They make great pets. As a matter of fact all my pigeons are my pets and one of them chose me as her partner


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It really isn't a good idea to let him out to fly alone. Solo birds aren't safe in the wild. That's why they live in flocks. Too easy for a hawk to pick off a lone bird.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*WinGy*

Looking at WinGy up close and the pictures of the link you provided it seems like she/he is a Horseman thief pouter.
I am going to take a couple of days to really think about my next step on the future of winGy..
I want to make sure that I commit to taking care of WinGy for life that I am going to have the necessary condition to give WinGy a good Healthy life…
I am not even sure if WinGy is male or female, how will I be able to find a “Mate.”
I am glad that I found this site with members like you, that are kind and willing to help. 

Joe 



Woodnative said:


> Here is one webpage on horseman thief pouters: http://www.blueridgebiological.com/IHTPC.htm
> Circus lofts has a lot of information on some of the different pouters....may be worth contacting th owner (Alan B) to figure out what it is. If you want to keep him/her he will need to be in a loft/coop, preferably with a mate and possibly more of his own kind. This would have to be predator proof, dry inside, have a nice sunny flight area with strong, small mesh etc. He/she will need a good pigeon grain mix, grit, and fresh water. With time you could let him/her out under supervision if you teach him/her to respond to a whistle or other feed call (basically teachign them to come in for food and flying them hungry). If you go that route and move forward you will probably have a lot of question....feel free to ask. Finding a thief pouter hobbyist in your area would help you to see them in action and answer some of your questions.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Glad he/she found you. Good for you for taking time to put thought into his/her future and care. 
Differences in male and female are hard to tell, especially with only one, and mostly behavorial.....and only after they reach full maturity (which your "guy" may or may not be). Females are generally quieter, more "feminine" looking, thinner neck (harder to tell on pouters I think) compared to males. Males will court females by cooing more, dragging their tail and spinning in circles. See what his/her reaction to a mirror is. 
You will know in time. You can also send a couple feathers off to some specialty places to be sexed for certain using DNA but it will cost about $25 bucks or so. You will know soon enough anyway. If it lays an egg for sure it is a female! ; )
Check out this guys website too if you have not already. This is Circus Lofts: http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds.htm I don't know the guy personally but he is active in the pigeon community. Perhaps if you mailed a photo of wingy he could tell for sure what type of pouter it is.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*WinGy*

Followed your advice and email the "guy" from the link you provided. His name is Allen and he was very helpful on answering my email.
He reviewed the pictures and mention that is definitely not a feral, and that it’s a Pouter possibly a Spanish Pouter.
As far as sex goes, I have no Idea right now... On the weekend I will see if I can find a mirror and placed it next to the cage…
Any other Ideas on how to find Sex?
Lol <<---- I mean Gender!



Woodnative said:


> Check out this guys website too if you have not already. This is Circus Lofts: http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds.htm I don't know the guy personally but he is active in the pigeon community. Perhaps if you mailed a photo of wingy he could tell for sure what type of pouter it is.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

You mentioned you were married......perhaps take the wife out for a nice dinner, compliment her hair........ LOL! OK, this is a family site! Enough of that!

The mirror is probably your best bet for determining gender right now. If he suddenly spins and circles and really coos he might be a male. If he stays quiet me might be a female. There are a couple of other methods around of which I have some doubt. Females have wider vent bones but unless you have felt several birds of same breed of known gender that won't be of much help. If you are really curious adn need to know ASAP you could go to the DNA route......sending a few feathers to one of the labs. I think there is even one in Miami (?). 

You got yourself a pretty neat new addition there! Have you read up on the sport of "thieving"? It is an interestingsport that these birds were originally bred to do. That bird has some interesting history! Of course they don't have to do that......they are pigeons first just like Laborador Retrievers are not all used for hunting anymore.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Wingy*

Hello Everyone,
I have noticed that Wingy has been cooing a lot more lately than usual...
Tonight when I came out of the shower I noticed it again and walked to her small loft and noticed that she was cooing even do it was dark.
It seems very unusual; I am concern that something may be wrong...
She has been eating and drinking water and getting her daily sun tan...
Should I be in the lookout for any signs, can this be an expression of pain?
Thanks for all your help...

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

No pain according to me. My male pigeon usually coo in the dark, more semi obscure light. He's probably missing some TLC.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Ok..
I been thinking of finding Wingy a mate, maybe that will help.
Thanks for the info

Joe


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## Tashy/Rob (Jan 18, 2012)

Joe Black!

Keep Wingy.........or we send the 'boys' round!

Rob


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Please keep the boys under control!

Joe Black..

I will be posting pics when i pick up her new friend this weeked.

Joe Black...




Tashy/Rob said:


> Joe Black!
> 
> Keep Wingy.........or we send the 'boys' round!
> 
> Rob


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Help Hen Pigeon not moving*

Hello Everyone,

My Hen pigeon had her 2nd egg today.
I noticed that she is seating outside the box while the male pigeon is inside the box seating on top of the egg...
My concern is that my female Hen that is seating outside the box is alert but not moving around.
I know she is in good spirits because she wants to eat but she is not getting any lift in her legs she is moving around with her body and her wings a little open.
I am concern that something is wrong.
I picked her up and examine her rear end for any jam eggs and everything seems fine.
Please somebody provide me with some clarification/ advice...

Thanks
Joe


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Picture*

Here is her picture with Wingy on the background seating on the two eggs.

Joe





Joe Black said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> My Hen pigeon had her 2nd egg today.
> I noticed that she is seating outside the box while the male pigeon is inside the box seating on top of the egg...
> ...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

She could have some post egg paralysis, how much calcium and direct sunshine does she get?. Hens need a calcium source with vitamin D3, direct sun can help her make D3 she needs for egg production. They usually improve overr a few days if it is just a pinched nerve. But if 
She is low in calcium and D3 it can draw the calcium from her own body and cause lameness. You can give a 500 mg tablet with D3 for humans once a day for a few days, cut in half and put in the back of the throat so she swallows it. Then provide crushed oystershell in cage. Find a way to get them some sunshine or an avian sunlamp.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you have calcium and D3 you can give her?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

She is a young Hen.
A friend game her to me and is her first time laying eggs...
I take them out every day for approx. 6 hours to bathed in the Miami sun...
She looks ok but not walking around, just lying there...
So you say no big deal, just wait?

Thanks for all the help!

Joe




spirit wings said:


> She could have some post egg paralysis, how much calcium and direct sunshine does she get?. Hens need a calcium source with vitamin D3, direct sun can help her make D3 she needs for egg production. They usually improve overr a few days if it is just a pinched nerve. But if
> She is low in calcium and D3 it can draw the calcium from her own body and cause lameness. You can give a 500 mg tablet with D3 for humans once a day for a few days, cut in half and put in the back of the throat so she swallows it. Then provide crushed oystershell in cage.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I don't have it.
Is this something that i need to run and get?
I can run to walmart and find it there.. 



Jay3 said:


> Do you have calcium and D3 you can give her?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Driving to PetCo right now before they close.
Any Brand or just generic calcium and D3

Thanks

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I've already PM'd you back


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Just got back from Petco and they did not have it.
I am thinking about Walgreens or any drug store but they have high dosage; 2000 IU and up.
I am concern about giving too high of a dosage with these Human products...
Can you recommend a brand to buy or a specific product that you know won't harm the bird.

Thank you so much for your help everyone..


Joe




spirit wings said:


> She could have some post egg paralysis, how much calcium and direct sunshine does she get?. Hens need a calcium source with vitamin D3, direct sun can help her make D3 she needs for egg production. They usually improve overr a few days if it is just a pinched nerve. But if
> She is low in calcium and D3 it can draw the calcium from her own body and cause lameness. You can give a 500 mg tablet with D3 for humans once a day for a few days, cut in half and put in the back of the throat so she swallows it. Then provide crushed oystershell in cage. Find a way to get them some sunshine or an avian sunlamp.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Give them crushed oyster shell, and make it available to them so they can take it when they need it. Hi-Cal grit is also good to leave with them so that they can take it as they want to. Doesn't hurt to give Calci Boost or similar once a week. Let us know how she is doing. Hope you can get the tablets tomorrow.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

She may have egg paralysiis, give her extra calcium and D3. This happens in some hens and something that may happen again when she lays eggs. Somehow a nerve may have gotten irritated when the egg was coming out. 

You can do a search and bring up numerous threads on the subject. Here s one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/post-egg-paralysis-42613.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> She is a young Hen.
> A friend game her to me and is her first time laying eggs...
> I take them out every day for approx. 6 hours to bathed in the Miami sun...
> She looks ok but not walking around, just lying there...
> ...


what is her calcium source? ( before you went to wal-greens)


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I visited an aviary store today and they did not have the Cal or the D-3
Drove around town different pet stores and no one had single bottle of each...
They had some products that contained them as part of the ingredients.
I visited Big-lots and purchase the brand name Sundown naturals Calcium 600 MG with 200IU D-3
Broke the pills in 3 parts 200mg calcium and 70IU D-3
Gave her the pill and left her rest... She seem alert and move around the cage a little , she seem concern over her eggs and move to cover than once Wingy was done taking care of them.
Tomorrow I will give her another 3rd of the pill and hope that she gets better soon.
I also purchase a bottle of Multivitamins from the aviary store calls Pigeons Tabs... The guys at the store told me they are very good... Anyone has any knowledge of these Tabs...
I will keep on posting tomorrow and let everyone know how Lola is doing...
Thanks again

Joe


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

what is her calcium source? ( before you went to wal-greens)


what is in pigeon tabs exactly?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

None.

I feed them Good Quality Pigeon food that I get from a neighbor that has many racing birds.
I take them out to the sun every day for approx. 6 to 8 hours in a nice and relax setting with lots of other birds that stop by to feed on a seed plate that I set up for them every day.
They interact with the other birds and stay active; they love been outside.
I was not aware of the need for Cal and D-3; I assumed that with a well balance food intake will be sufficient to keep them healthy.
Wingy the first pigeon that I rescue has been very active and healthy all this time.
Lola the girl friend that I found for him a couple of weeks ago is the one that needs care right now...
Thanks for all of the help...

Joe




spirit wings said:


> what is her calcium source? ( before you went to wal-greens)
> 
> 
> what is in pigeon tabs exactly?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pigeon grains lack calcium, so she needs a source at all times in her cage or where they live. hen's esp and the cock can eat some too when he is feeding babies which protein and calcium are important as they double their size in no time if well fed.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Wingy and Lola...*

After Lola recovers from her Cal deficiency I will love to find a new home for them.

I had a couple of people offer to take Wingy when he was alone with me but It was a little difficult for me to just give him away as I have learn to understand him and share some affection.

I decided to bring Wingy a Female companion because I hated seeing him alone in the cage, even do he interacts with my 4 Chihuahuas all day long and chases them around the house.

The first day Lola came to the house Wingy rejected her and became a little abusive. I had to remove him from the cage and carry a long conversation with him on the proper way to treat a lady.

The next day after a long night of reflexion wingy was placed back in the cage where he offered a short apology to Lola and promised his unconditional love and attention to her.

Since that unfortunate and embarrassing incident wingy has been a very caring and devoted husband.
He grooms Lola on a daily bases and gives her lots and lots of little kisses...
The love making was so profound and constant in playing view of the Chihuahuas and everyone else that I was force to remodel their cage and add an extra bedroom in the form of a medium size box with a door cutout that connects with the cage door.

They love their privacy from day one and made great use of the new master bedroom in the following days.
Not too conscious of the natural result of hot sexual encounter without proper protection the inevitable happen.

A few days later the wife ran to my room screaming, "I am getting old", "I am getting old" we are going to be grandparents.

I ran to the cage to find a small egg on the middle of the new master suite that I build for them.

We noticed that Wingy was very concern of the egg been left alone by Lola and stepped up to the plate and did what a good devoted husband and soon to be father will do and that is protect his unborn.
He sat on the egg for a few hours every day to give Lola some quality time alone, what a great husband he is.

The next day we found another egg in the same location; 24 hour later is when I noticed that she was not moving at all.
Her spirits are good and she seems normal. I am praying that the Cal and D-3 will help her recover back to health soon...

Joe


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Why do you want to find a new home for them? It sounds like you guys love them and are doing right even if learning. Did you get calcium into her??? Usually the hens recover pretty quickly.sometimes instantaneously after the calcium intake. You can use half or so of a human calcium pill............it won't overdoes with a calcium pill like you ould with a vitamin or medication. 1/4 tums tablet would probably be fine too....they are mostly calcium. In the longterm you want to give them grit with oyster shell. In a pinch you can usually buy grit with oyster shell in the bird section of petco etc. Get at least for cockateils (finch grit is too small). Ideally you should buy grit made for pigeons as it is the right size. Grit is literally made of crushed stone (with added calcium and minerals). The stones actually help crush the seed within the birds gizard.........since they don't have teeth to chew thier food!
A hen uses a lot of calcium at once making those eggs......so the extra is needed especially at that time. Get the calcium in her in the short term, find some grit in the very near future and enjoy your birds for many many years!!!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Lola is walking again....*

Good morning everyone, 

I have great news... Lola is back up and running again. 
She woke up this morning full of energy and happy.
I will keep on giving her the Cal-D3 pills and lots of water and food...
I will also follow the advice provided and buy them some grit with oyster shell.
I’ll post some pictures soon...

Thanks for all of the help everyone, Jay3, Spirits Wings, SkyeKing, Woodnative, Dima…..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

fantastic!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*That is certainly good to hear..*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
While driving in my neighborhood this afternoon with the wife looking for a dog that we been feeding for the last week I noticed a bird that had the same colors as wingy.
I stop the vehicle and my wife and I were having fun at how the bird was chasing other some mourning doves and claiming some food from the floor.
I noticed that he had a yellow band on one of the legs and was walking with some sort of hunch on his back and his Crop region was kind of hanging, sort of like a lose skin from somebody that loses lots of weight.
I stepped out of the car and I noticed that the pigeon was very friendly and did not fly away.
I got a little closer to him and picked him up with no problem.
I put him on a towel and brought him back home.
I placed him on a comfortable box away from Wingy and Lola gave him some fresh water and food and he drank and eats.
When I picked him up I noticed some sort of mite or something moving on his feather really fast, it looked like a small spider, I don’t think it was mites because it was visible for a second.
I want to help this pigeon and return it to their owner.
How can I find out who it belongs to by looking at the ring on the leg?
Thanks in advance.

Joe


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Post all the letters and numbers from the band and we can help locate owner. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Au 2009AA 54572*

Hello everyone,
This morning I looked in the box to monitor *hunchback* is doing very well.
He ate all of the food I gave him last night and lots of the water.
He also pooped here and there.
He because very territorial of his new box and intended to fight me….
I checked under his wings for a sign of phone number or any other information and nothing.
His wings stretched and look normal to me but he is not flying.
He has a Yellow band on his left leg with the code:* Au 2009AA 54572*
I will love to find the owner of the pigeon soon.

Thanks in advance,

Joe










Skyeking said:


> *Post all the letters and numbers from the band and we can help locate owner. *


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*AU2009AA54572

Charles Siegel and Son's
Club Code: AA
Jeanerette, La.
1-800-437-4436

This is a pigeon supply company that have their own birds.*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I just called them and left them a message.
They are in California and I am all the way South in Miami Florida how in the world can a pigeon get all the way down here...
I will keep him safe in the box till they answer my calls..

Thanks Sky

Joe




Skyeking said:


> *AU2009AA54572
> 
> Charles Siegel and Son's
> Club Code: AA
> ...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

This pigeon could have been given to another owner. The second owner did not put a band. It happened to me to find a banded pigeon , called the owner and talked to him. He said he sold her a yr ago and he doesn't remember to who. He didn't want her back because he had too many.
Keep your fingers crossed that you can send him home. This pigeon with that hanging side of the crop it's a special breed. Don't know the name though.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he sounds like he has pigeon flys which are parasites that suck the blood, I would dust him with 5% seven dust to rid him of those. He could be a gaditano pouter/ cropper pigeon.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Gina was right on the money.
I called the club this morning.
I gave them the information on the Pigeon and their response was very matter of fact.
They gave me the phone number for the person they sold it too.
I called him and he told me to let him lose that he will find a way to get back home
I clarified to him that pigeon was not flying and he responded that he had sold it to somebody else and that he will call me back if he locates the person.
I will give him sometimes to find the person and I will keep on re-having the pigeon till he calls me or till he can fly on his own.
I will keep everyone updated.

Joe






Dima said:


> This pigeon could have been given to another owner. The second owner did not put a band. It happened to me to find a banded pigeon , called the owner and talked to him. He said he sold her a yr ago and he doesn't remember to who. He didn't want her back because he had too many.
> Keep your fingers crossed that you can send him home. This pigeon with that hanging side of the crop it's a special breed. Don't know the name though.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Question to everyone
Are there people responsible in this forum that will be interested in adopting healthy pigeons?
If they pigeon bellow is not claim I will like to find somebody to adopt him.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Joe Black said:


> Question to everyone
> Are there people responsible in this forum that will be interested in adopting healthy pigeons?
> If they pigeon bellow is not claim I will like to find somebody to adopt him.


*You can try, post in our adoption forum with picture and with the location of where the bird resides. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you..

I will into it..

Joe



Skyeking said:


> *You can try, post in our adoption forum with picture and with the location of where the bird resides. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Big Green Poop*

Hello Everyone,
I have noticed that Lola poop has been green and huge (about three inches long) the last week.
She has been eating and drinking the same the only change is that she is seating on her eggs half a day while wingy seats the other half..
I have attached a picture of the poop to see if you guys notice any unusual..
Thanks in advance for all of the help you guys provide.
I hope to do the same one day..
regards
Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow..That's quite a poop. But it's a good one..


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

ok...
I am happy about the good poop...
Thanks
Dima


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*eggs won't hatch*

Hello everyone,
I have a question; it’s been 23 days since Lola had her last egg and no hatching.
How much longer do I wait?
I have seen her lose a little interest on the eggs and she is spending more and more time with Wingy kissing and grooming.
Is this a signal that the eggs won't hatch, is she getting ready to mate again?
Is this the time to give her the extra calcium just in case?
I will like to buy some fake eggs to avoid her having to produce more eggs any thoughts on this?
Thanks in advance for all of your help...

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> Hello everyone,
> I have a question; it’s been 23 days since Lola had her last egg and no hatching.
> How much longer do I wait?
> I have seen her lose a little interest on the eggs and she is spending more and more time with Wingy kissing and grooming.
> ...


Buying fake eggs will not stop her from producing more eggs. She will sit on fake eggs only after she 's got her eggs laid ( though i have on pigeon that i put fake eggs and she lays on them).

Ca & D3 it's best to give before and few days after laying the eggs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

IF they are kissing and grooming, you can remove the eggs. They are going to try again.
Fake eggs won't stop her from laying. You wait till they lay, then you switch the eggs. They are used to keep the population down, not to stop her from laying. But if you were to just pull the eggs and not replace them with fake, then she would just lay again. That would be too soon. Too much laying, and it would eventually deplete her of calcium. So you switch out the eggs, which gives them something to sit for the 18 days or so, before they try again. Fake eggs are important to have on hand.
In a few days you can give the extra calcium. You do give them calcium anyway, don't you?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello Everyone,
Here to let you all know that Wingy and Lola had two healthy babies last week. They have been caring for the babies day and night like the great parents they are..
I am back here like always to get inform on the dos and don’ts and thanks to you all for helping me out all of the time with all of my questions...
My first concern is that I have noticed that wingy and Lola seems a little lighter when I pick them up.
I am not sure if this weight loss has been because they are feeding the two babies or is just natural this time of the year.
They seem to be eating well and drinking a lot of water. I have been giving them a multivitamin for pigeons and a new brand of food that I purchased at a pigeon store...
I have also purchased a Deworming pill call Mediworm from the brand name MedPet.
The bottle says to give on an empty crop. My concern giving wingy and Lola the deworming now that they are feeding the little birds. Do you all think this can cause any issues with the little ones?
The guy at the bird store told me he had some little back round pills called bullets that he feeds baby pigeons and they get big and strong fast.. I can’t remember the name of the pills right now but is anyone familiar with them…
Thanks in advance for all of the help...

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

The loss of weight could be the molting. There's special feed you can give during molting season.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks Dima,

I will research on the molting and what type of food to feed...
Any advice on the deworming?

Joe



Dima said:


> The loss of weight could be the molting. There's special feed you can give during molting season.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I wouldn't use any dewormer in the molting time. 
I don't know what kind of brand are in US, but here i would buy this ( you can see on description what kind of seeds are, how much fat, carbo, protein; usually in molting oily seeds are good)
http://www.badenfeed.com/index.php/pigion-feed/14-sp-378


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you for the link. I noticed that many of the seeds listed on the link are already part of their diet. I will look over the content and brand name of their feeding tomorrow and determine how similar the feeds are.
Dima thank you for been so helpful.
Good night.



Dima said:


> I wouldn't use any dewormer in the molting time.
> I don't know what kind of brand are in US, but here i would buy this ( you can see on description what kind of seeds are, how much fat, carbo, protein; usually in molting oily seeds are good)
> http://www.badenfeed.com/index.php/pigion-feed/14-sp-378


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Joe Black said:


> Hello Everyone,
> Here to let you all know that Wingy and Lola had two healthy babies last week. They have been caring for the babies day and night like the great parents they are..
> I am back here like always to get inform on the dos and don’ts and thanks to you all for helping me out all of the time with all of my questions...
> My first concern is that I have noticed that wingy and Lola seems a little lighter when I pick them up.
> ...


*You didn't mention anything about giving them a good probiotic, that will help them assimilate their food better as well as help crowd out bad bacteria with good bacteria that stress could be depleting.

Also, I myself would not worm them at this time, if they don't need it, plus you have to be very careful which wormer you use on pigeons. 

Also, have food and water available to the parents at all times.*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you for your help.





Skyeking said:


> *You didn't mention anything about giving them a good probiotic, that will help them assimilate their food better as well as help crowd out bad bacteria with good bacteria that stress could be depleting.*


I have not given them any probiotic at all. Somebody recomended PB last time they got a little sick but they got better the next day and i did not feld the need for it anymore. Not that you mention the venefits i will jump on it.. Is there any brand you recommend?



Skyeking said:


> *Also, I myself would not worm them at this time, if they don't need it, plus you have to be very careful which wormer you use on pigeons.*


I purchased MediWorm from a pigeon store I have also seen it sold in many online stores.. Whats your opinion on this brand or do you recomend another brand.











Skyeking said:


> *Also, have food and water available to the parents at all times.*


I been giving them food two times a day and unlimited water; you are saying to keep the food tray full all of time..
Thank you again for all of your help...

Joe


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for your response.

They need unlimited access to food as long as they are feeding babies, they will be feeding enormous amounts of food to them while they are growing, and that may be the reason they seem thin. 

I myself don't use any chemical wormers so I cannot comment on the wormer. Any human grade probiotic that is kept refrigerated should be fine to use on the birds. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> Hello Everyone,
> Here to let you all know that Wingy and Lola had two healthy babies last week. They have been caring for the babies day and night like the great parents they are..
> I am back here like always to get inform on the dos and don’ts and thanks to you all for helping me out all of the time with all of my questions...
> My first concern is that I have noticed that wingy and Lola seems a little lighter when I pick them up.
> ...




You just answered your question yourself. It says give on an empty crop. When parents are feeding babies, you let them have food 24/7. You don't let their crop go empty. How will they feed their babies? 
Besides, you shouldn't worm parents who are feeding, as the med will go to the babies. Babies shouldn't be wormed till they are 3 months old. If you worm birds, you do it before letting them breed. Now you will have to wait till the babies are weaned. Anyway, a bird being lighter doesn't always mean worms.
As long as the parents are getting good healthy feed and fresh water, vitamins and calcium, the babies don't need a lot of extra stuff. I wouldn't be giving them pills of any kind.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you Jay..


Joe



Jay3 said:


> You just answered your question yourself. It says give on an empty crop. When parents are feeding babies, you let them have food 24/7. You don't let their crop go empty. How will they feed their babies?
> Besides, you shouldn't worm parents who are feeding, as the med will go to the babies. Babies shouldn't be wormed till they are 3 months old. If you worm birds, you do it before letting them breed. Now you will have to wait till the babies are weaned. Anyway, a bird being lighter doesn't always mean worms.
> As long as the parents are getting good healthy feed and fresh water, vitamins and calcium, the babies don't need a lot of extra stuff. I wouldn't be giving them pills of any kind.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Help*

I just got home and I noticed my mail pigeon acting abnormal.
When I when to feed them he was very jumpy. He is looking down as is he is looking for some grains on the floor and he goes to the tray to eat but is not picking the grains... Yesterday he seems a little sleepy and I mention it to my wife but we assumed that it was because of the stress cause by the two new baby pigeons.
I am concern that it may be a virus. I isolated him from the other birds and am looking on line for a solution.
I check his crop and it was empty. I gave him some water with the syringe.
Any help will be appreciated…
The other pigeons are acting normal.

Joe


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Help*

I just ran to the store and purchased some Amoxicillinum 10% powder.
They did not have the injectable one. It says to mix one table spoon per gallon.
I am not going to give him anything till i hear some advice from you guys..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you take a picture of the package?

How much does your pigeon weigh?
Also...is food always available for parents that are feeding babies?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Help*

He has food and water available all the time. I noticed that he was losing weight a couple of weeks ago. I assumed that it was parasite or maybe the new board babies taking calories from him.
I never gave him the deworming because i was advised not to because of the newborns...
He seem normal this morning at around noon then when i got back home at 6:00 pm i noticed that he was acting abnormal. He was jumpy and not eating..
He is looking down at the floor and walking around like if he was looking for something to eat. 
I gave him water and a couple of seeds and i isolated him from the other birds.
I purchased the only available antibiotic at the store and it happens to be in powder.
Amoxicillinum 10% one teaspoon to a gallon of water.
The question is can i give this medicine to all my birds including the little ones.
I am concern that it may be a virus and they all my get sick.
I looked down his throat when i was feeding him and i did not see anything that looked like canker.

Please advice if possible..
Thanks

Joe










http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0099/9652/products/amoxicillin_powder_medium.jpg?59







Charis said:


> Can you take a picture of the package?
> 
> How much does your pigeon weigh?
> Also...is food always available for parents that are feeding babies?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

The only other thing that I did was give him small Piece of calcium table yesterday. I have given the same size or bigger to the hen and it has helped her with the calcium deficiency.
I just mixed the Amoxicillinum 10% one table spoon to one gallon of water and I gave him as much water as possible... His crop still empty... he is not eating.
He seems to be sleeping normal and did not look any worst... lets hope tomorrow is a better day...

Joe


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

He can only get worse-if he is not eating, he will need to be hand fed (1 tablespoon of pigeon seed per meal-then make sure he drinks)until you can figure out what is wrong with him and he starts eating a full meal. What do his poops look like?

If he is under a great deal of stress, the bad bacteria may be flourishing. Have you put a drop or two of apple cider vinegar or added a probiotic to their food? That may help get the good gut bacteria back on track for now, and/or until we figure out what is wrong with him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can also hand feed him with frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. You will have to put them in his mouth and push them to the back of his throat. Let the beak go, and he will swallow. It's really pretty easy.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

You can give baby apple sauce also. That will change the pH if there's yeast in his crop. I am struggling with a young pigeon who's crop feels liquid. How are the babies? If one of the parents has yeast in the crop most likely the babies will get it too. Or may be is just stress as Skyeking said. If it's stress he should get better soon let to rest, but you need to hand feed him.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Update on Wingy.

Skyeking, Jay3, Dima, and Charis you gals and guys are great, without your comfort and advice it will be impossible to care for my pigeons.


*Friday Night*, I placed Wingy in the laundry room and away from the other birds. I left him inside his 15x30 housing.
I force-fed him 20 seeds=1 table spoon and 20cc of water with the powder mix in the water at 10% Amocycillinum.
I left water already mixed and food on his tray. When I got home that night I noticed that he was sleeping but had not touch the water or food.

*Saturday Morning* 

I got up early and checked on him, I noticed that he had drank just a little bit of water and he had gone to the food tray, because I noticed some seeds on the floor but he did not eat much because his crop was empty. His behavior was defensive going around in circles with his tale down and warning sound. He seems to be feeling better and was not presenting the abnormal behavior he had the night before but seem a little off.


*Saturday Night, *

When I got home I checked on wingy and noticed that he had eating very little and drank about 10cc of water. I force-fed him again about 20 seeds=table spoon and approx. 20cc of water. 
He seems better and more alert. I Let him rest in a nice comfortable environment.


*Sunday Morning, *

This morning checked on Wingy.

He seems to be alert and normal. I noticed that he had eaten and his crop was a ¼ full. I force fed him again and gave him another 20 CC of water. I also gave him another one of the fabry ideal pills.
I move him outside of the laundry room and into an area that has more natural light coming in from the window. 
I just check on him right now at the time of me writing this post and he seems to be normal on his behavior. He ate a little more because I can see the food tray half way empty and some seeds on the floor but he has not drank any water.

*Poop talk:*

The first day he was pooping very little and it was watery and kind of green but very hard to tell because of the newspapers lining on the bottom of the tray.
Yesterday, I noticed a little more poops and it seem to be watery and dark green.

Today, I have notice about 4 dropping of hard poop in a dark muster color with the proper consistency of white urine that I am use to seeing.
I am not sure if this if a good sign of improvement but I sure hope so.


*Medicine talk:* 

As mention I have been giving him and everyone else a power mix in the water at 10% of Amocycillinum.
I am not sure if the medicine is helping because I don’t have a proper diagnose as of this time but I want to make sure that I finish the proper treatment of 5 days.


*Quarantine talk*: This is a question that I don’t have an answer too.
If he keeps on improving and becomes “healthy” again when is it prudent to bring him back into the group and with his wife? He has been complaining and calling her and she is just missing him and making noises back and forth. I want to make sure that I only bring him back into the pack group when I am sure that he is ok...


*The other pigeons:* Lola, the babies, and Joro seem to be healthy and acting normal. I been giving them the 10% water mix of Amocycillinum just in case, I know maybe I jumped the gun but I was extremely concern and two neighbors that have birds advised me to kill him right away because it was probably PMV and it was risky to the other birds.. 
I will keep on the lookout for the next few days and reporting back...

Thanks everyone for all of your help...

Joe

Amoxicillin: An excellent broad spectrum antibiotic. Often good against Salmonella, E. coli, Strep. & Staph. Species of bacteria.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, the way you are giving the med, you really can't be sure that he is getting enough. That's why of course, it's so much better to treat individually with a tablet. That way you can be sure he is getting enough. This way is treating just so, so. If he is being under medicated, then the bacteria can become resistant to the drug. He may start to look better, but it could come back with a vengeance, as the bacteria could have become stronger. 
And 5 days isn't long enough to treat. I would go 10 days anyway. If it is Salmonella, it takes even longer. But then we don't even know what we are treating him for. Is there no way you can order Enrofloxan in tablet form?
And defrosted peas would be easier for him to digest. 
You wouldn't let him back with the others till the whole treatment has been given, and he is better for a few more days without relapse.
I know you feel badly with him missing his mate, but just not worth bringing him back too soon. I felt badly when one of my birds was really sick and had to be removed for the duration of the treatment, so I know how you feel. I actually, and don't laugh, took a picture of his mate sitting on the nest, and printed it up to almost life size photo, and taped it to the side of his cage. It sounds crazy, I know, but he stayed by that photo, just watching her for most of his recuperation time. I actually believe it helped him. 

You said that today,(Sunday morning) he had not drank. If you had fed him the defrosted peas, he would have at least, been getting some moisture from them. Eating seed and not drinking isn't good.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> Joe, the way you are giving the med, you really can't be sure that he is getting enough. That's why of course, it's so much better to treat individually with a tablet..


I had no choice. That was the only antibiotic available to me on a friday night.




Jay3 said:


> Is there no way you can order Enrofloxan in tablet form?


Yes, I can order it tonight and have them overnight it and start treating him with the Emrofloxan tables as soon as they get here...




Jay3 said:


> And defrosted peas would be easier for him to digest.
> .


He has been eating on its own. I just touch the crop and its seems to be half way full.. I can alway run to the store and buy a bag of frozen peas and start feeding him if its going to be better than regular seeds...



Jay3 said:


> You said that today,(Sunday morning) he had not drank. If you had fed him the defrosted peas, he would have at least, been getting some moisture from them. Eating seed and not drinking isn't good.


He is not drinking that much water on his own but I been giving him water with a syringe about three times a day with approx 20cc each time.

Thanks so much Jay.

I will post an update tomorrow.. 
If I manage to find the Enrofloxan locally tomorrow it will be great if not i will order it online and expedite the shipping.

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, if he's eating enough, and you are able to get enough water into him, then don't bother with the peas. I didn't realize you were getting that much water into him. Maybe I missed that. I probably would have started him on the amoxy, and ordered the Enro, and then I would have it, if the first med wasn't doing enough. You should have it on hand anyway. If the amoxy seems to be working, I would still buy the other, but you probably don't need to over night it.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Great, I feel better now.
He seems to be doing much better. I just checked him a few minutes ago and he his crop was half way full. I gave him about 25 cc of water and one of them black Ideal pills..
You think i need to stop giving all the other birds the water with the amoxy.. I am concern about the babies drinking this water if they don't need it.. They all seem to be fine...


Joe 




Jay3 said:


> Joe, if he's eating enough, and you are able to get enough water into him, then don't bother with the peas. I didn't realize you were getting that much water into him. Maybe I missed that. I probably would have started him on the amoxy, and ordered the Enro, and then I would have it, if the first med wasn't doing enough. You should have it on hand anyway. If the amoxy seems to be working, I would still buy the other, but you probably don't need to over night it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When you start a treatment, you finish it. Otherwise, as I said, the bacteria can build up a resistance to it.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe, you need to keep going with Amoxy, since he is better at least 7 days.
The other pigeons that drink antibiotic via water should be stopped. Since they are fine, don't bother to treat them. As Jay said, when they will really get sick and see the symptoms, the antibiotic via water will not work anymore.
Good luck with him and great idea Jay had; don't forget to print the pic.

Just a question: did you see your pigeon getting attacked by others? I had a situation and saw one of my pigeons being badly attacked when he entered in some other pigeon's nest. After i ran and taking him out he was circling and flapping weird all over the floor and twisting his head. It was very scary. It took him a day and a half to gain back his balance. I thought he had PMV, but he recovered too quickly...i didn't know pigeons can have panic attacks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima said:


> Joe, you need to keep going with Amoxy, since he is better at least 7 days.
> *The other pigeons that drink antibiotic via water should be stopped. Since they are fine, don't bother to treat them. As Jay said, when they will really get sick and see the symptoms, the antibiotic via water will not work anymore.*
> Good luck with him and great idea Jay had; don't forget to print the pic.
> 
> Just a question: did you see your pigeon getting attacked by others? I had a situation and saw one of my pigeons being badly attacked when he entered in some other pigeon's nest. After i ran and taking him out he was circling and flapping weird all over the floor and twisting his head. It was very scary. It took him a day and a half to gain back his balance. I thought he had PMV, but he recovered too quickly...i didn't know pigeons can have panic attacks.




Dima, starting an antibiotic, and stopping it after a few days is how you help the antibiotic to become stronger and build an immunity to the drug. He should give it for the entire treatment. And you don't know that they are fine. Could just not be showing symptoms. Won't hurt to treat them in case.
What you said I said, isn't what I said.


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## jafacanyan (Jul 17, 2013)

How is the bird feel this fine day


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for your concern.
I just check on him and he seems to be doing fine.
He is eating on his own but very little. He did not drink any water.i will keep on feeding him and giving water with the syringe till he fully recovers..
Thanks everyone

Joe




jafacanyan said:


> How is the bird feel this fine day


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Dima said:


> Just a question: did you see your pigeon getting attacked by others?


Hi Dima,

Thank you for always helping me.. 

I only have him, his mate and the two babies.. then the other bird is in another housing.
He has been losing weight for the last couple of weeks but I though that it was due to the new babies.
Also for a few months sense I rescue him he was all alone in the house and he got a little fat then when I found Lola his mate he was busy all the time I assumed that his new weight was normal.
I am not sure if it has any relationship to his sickness but is important to note.

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Joe, the way you are giving the med, you really can't be sure that he is getting enough. That's why of course, it's so much better to treat individually with a tablet. That way you can be sure he is getting enough. This way is treating just so, so. If he is being under medicated, then the bacteria can become resistant to the drug. He may start to look better, but it could come back with a vengeance, as the bacteria could have become stronger.
> .


You were referring via drinking water!?! You didn't specified to stop the treatment for the rest of healthy pigeons, But to me it makes sense to only treat the one with symptoms, not the rest.

Joe, you were giving water via syringe to the male, as you said exactly how much you gave. How much do you give Amoxy to the male? I think for this pigeon you are giving a certain dosage, not via drinking water.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> Hi Dima,
> 
> Thank you for always helping me..
> 
> ...


How is he breathing? Did you notice anything like beak open, tail swishing up and down? How is he holding the wings , what about the tail ( is it down)?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Update,

Wingy seem to be improving by the day.
Today I gave him the same amount of water in the morning as all the other day 20cc pre-mix with the 10% Amoxy and 20 seeds…
I took him outside for a few hours to enjoy the patio and the morning sun. 
He looked fine and it was acting normal.
I noticed that he had drank water from his tray...
For some reason he is been selective with the seeds. He is not eating the corns that came premix in the bag; he is only eating the round pea’s seeds.
I hope he can recover 100% and enjoy the loft am building for them next week..

Thanks to all..

Joe


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Sorry i did not see your post earlier.

Joe



Dima said:


> How is he breathing? Did you notice anything like beak open, tail swishing up and down? How is he holding the wings , what about the tail ( is it down)?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima said:


> You were referring via drinking water!?! You didn't specified to stop the treatment for the rest of healthy pigeons, But to me it makes sense to only treat the one with symptoms, not the rest.
> Dima, if you start treatment to the flock because a bird is sick, then you finish the treatment. By giving it for too short a time, that is how you allow the bacteria to build resistance. Not because you gave it to them and they didn't need it. When a bird comes down with something, usually other flock members pick it up as they live in close quarters, and share feed and water. So it doesn't hurt to treat them to try and prevent them getting sick. But if started, then the treatment should be finished.
> 
> Joe, you were giving water via syringe to the male, as you said exactly how much you gave. How much do you give Amoxy to the male? I think for this pigeon you are giving a certain dosage, not via drinking water.


If you go back and read, he said he mixed the med in the water and gave him as much as he could. That isn't giving the exact amount of med.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Update*,

Wingy is doing well. He is eating and drinking on his own but not as much as he normally does.
I always make sure to check his crop for food.. I normally give him water with the syringe regardless.
The other birds are doing fine as well. They are on their 4th day of Amoxy three more days and they are done with the treatment.

Thank you.

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad he is doing better. Maybe you can tempt him to eat more by adding some of his favorite seeds to the mix? If I'm trying to bribe mine to eat more I add a bit of hemp or safflower. Even split peas and lentils will tempt them more to eat, so I add more of those.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Update,
Wingy seems to be back to normal. He is eating and drinking.
I am keeping him on the amoxy till Friday night them on Saturday morning am changing the water to clean water.
I will keep him away from the rest of the birds for a couple of more days after Saturday and start him on some probiotics...
I’ll check his weight and keep track of it once a week for the next 4 weeks to make sure that he is doing fine.
All the other birds are also doing fine... The little babies are walking a lot more and eating on their own. They also drink on their own but bother the mother sometimes for some water.
She has been a good mom always caring for them and making sure they are fine.
I am taking them out of the care for a couple of hours every day and let them walk on the floor to see if they can get their footing… Lola enjoys the free rein also…

Thanks everyone...

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad things are going well.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Update,
Wingy has been doing great I think that he is fully recovered. I have taken him and all the birds away from the Amoxi. I will start giving them Probiotic starting tomorrow.
Thank everyone.
Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Nice to hear. Thanks.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

GREAT. 
Wish all of them the best, though i know they have the best caregiver.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I noticed that one of my baby pigeons had a watery poop today. He has been eating well and acting normal.
They diet has not change!
I been looking around for poop dictionary but i can't find any.
I have posted a picture of it to see if anyone can give me an idea if it looks normal or not.
I haven't seen too many watery poops before, they are generally solid and compact.
your advice will be appreciated.

Thanks

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Monitor the poop tomorrow too. 
It can mean a lots of things from diet to stress , canker, ecoli etc.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

A little probiotics may just be what the youngster needs, but definitely keep an eye out.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I let them out today to walk the inside of the house while i finish building their loft and i did not noticed any watery poop, it all seem solid.
I have probiotic multi-enzime that i drink everyday can i give them the same and how much.
I read somewhere to break the pill in 1/4 and it will be ok..
What do you all think?

Thanks

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I sometimes use human grade, but in capsules, and just mix it into a half gallon of water. I wouldn't directly feed it to them.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*What is in the pill?*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
This girl is the new addition to the family.
I will like for her to mate with my old cock Joro who’s all alone in the loft without a partner while the other 4 pigeons enjoy healthy relationships.
I picked her up yesterday from a farm in the Outside of Miami that had a few rescue pigeons.
I have her in isolation right now and I am planning on keeping her there for a few more days.
She looks to be healthy, its drinking water and eating normal. Her poops seem to be right.
The question I have for everyone is how long I keep her in Isolation before I place her in the loft with the old cock.
I will be deworming her and nothing else correct?
Last question: the person that gave her to me told me it was a Hen but I am not 100% I been thinking keeping her inside the small cage an place the cage inside the loft to see how she reacts to the old cock and for the rest of the pigeons to get use to her/him
Any advice will be appreciated.
She also has a green band but i haven't had a chance to check it out becuase i don't want to disturb her too much right now when she is getting use to the new location..
Thanks in advance for all of your help,

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Very pretty pigeon.
Best is to keep in quarantine 1 month. You are on the safe side for sure.

It's always good to treat for Canker, as this is a new place for her also and stress can bring canker.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I have Ronsec for Canker that Jay shared with me.
I looked for signs of canker on her and did not see any.
I will keep on looking at her for the next few days before i determine to treat for anything.
some people are saying treat for everything to make sure she is healthy and some other people tell me not to treat if not needed!
Does she look like a Hen in the photo?
Thanks Dima....

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

If no signs of illness for 1 month, then u are safe.
Keep a close eye on her poop. 

Yes, she does look like a hen. And she looks like a young one.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Dima said:


> If no signs of illness for 1 month, then u are safe.
> Keep a close eye on her poop.


Will do...



Dima said:


> Yes, she does look like a hen. And she looks like a young one.


I hope....

Thanks

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very pretty bird. Put a large mirror in her cage and see how she reacts to it. If it's a male, they will usually bow and coo to it and strut around, or try to fight with it.
I would isolate for a month, worm and treat for canker. I explained the rest to you already, but forgot to say to treat for canker. Duh!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
It seems that quarantine its already paying dividends with the new pigeons.
I deworm her yesterday and this morning I found what appears to be “ascariasis.”
She also seems to be very hungry now and wants to eat everything on her tray.
I will be Deworming in 14 days again.
Joe


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow!!! Good you dewormed her!!! Also check and treat for feather parasites.....the little hidden mites and lice. She does look like a she and is a very pretty bird. Good for you for taking in these previously lost and/or unwanted birds and giving them a Great home!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well with that many worms, I don't think she was all the well taken care of. I would definitely quarantine her for a month. And treat for the other things I had mentioned. Just not worth the risk of bringing anything into your loft. Good you wormed her. Do you have probiotics for the birds?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I have human probiotic that i been using but i will be making an order of meds and will prob include probiotic.
Any brand recommended.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I deworm my loft today i noticed this long worm in 3 drops.
It looks like a tape worm. I burned them and clean the loft. I will be deworming again in two weeks.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Is this your new pigeon having all these worms?

Do you use Invermectin?
I was reading in one of the old posts where it says that if treating for worms repeat after 21 days,as the eggs remain viable in the loft floor or surrounding for nearly 3 weeks.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Dima,

No, the new pigeon is in quarantine for another 3 weeks.
The tape worm on the picture i found in the afternoon on the floor of my loft where my other 5 pigeons live.
I deworm them this morning and hose the floor to better spot any kind of inconsistencies on the droppings...
There was only 3 dropping with this tape worm..
I just finished hosing the floor again, i hope tomorrow the poops looks cleaner...

Thanks

Joe


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Dima said:


> Do you use Invermectin?
> I was reading in one of the old posts where it says that if treating for worms repeat after 21 days,as the eggs remain viable in the loft floor or surrounding for nearly 3 weeks.



I am using Mediworm from Medpet!
I purchased it on my local feed store and it was the only thing he had.
It contains Pyrantel Pamoate 20 MG; Praziquantel 5MG

It seems to be working great for Pin Worm because i gave it to my new bird and you saw all the worms that she spilled.
It seems to work against Tapeworm and Roundworm..

Directions: to repeat the treatment after fourteen days.


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## PerfectRollers (Sep 23, 2013)

Nice bird!
What strain is she from?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Sorry,

I have no Idea! I just picked her up a couple of days ago to pair up with one of my rescue pigeons...
My knowledge base beyond caring for the pigeons is :0)



PerfectRollers said:


> Nice bird!
> What strain is she from?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima said:


> Is this your new pigeon having all these worms?
> 
> Do you use Invermectin?
> I was reading in one of the old posts where it says that if treating for worms repeat after 21 days,as the eggs remain viable in the loft floor or surrounding for nearly 3 weeks.



When you deworm a bird, it kills the worms, not the eggs that are inside the bird. So you worm again later to kill the worms that have hatched from those eggs.

Roundworm eggs that are passed by the bird can stay viable for months and even years.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, those were roundworms that your new bird passed. Nice that it gets tapeworm too.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Jay,

lets see how it goes tomorrow when i check in the morning!
I clean the loft today after they had pooped the worms.. Is there a proven way to kill the eggs that come out with the poops.. I read that some people torch the loft floor to kill all of germs..

Joe



Jay3 said:


> When you deworm a bird, it kills the worms, not the eggs that are inside the bird. So you worm again later to kill the worms that have hatched from those eggs.
> 
> Roundworm eggs that are passed by the bird can stay viable for months and even years.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. torching does work, but as long as you keep it clean and scraped, it'll be okay.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*worms*

OMG those pics of worms are gross but thank you joeblack for sharing them so we know what to look for if this problem arises in our flock.
What is the best meds to use for worms through mailorder? ivermectin? foys?
What about for canker? I get conflicting info so I am just checking again.
while on the subject has anyone heard of enroflox 100ml by gufarma (its 10% enrofloxaine (baytril)?
alos again has anyone tried tricoli stop by foys? A new product to stop canker and suppress e.coli?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I have with the help of Jay created a list of medication to have at home in case of need.
The last thing that you need is to have a sick pigeon and no medication available to treat the sick bird!

Below is the list of items that i have purchased for my medicine cabinet.
see if it works for you!

Joe



1)Paratyphoid (Salmonella): 2551 Amoxicillin Tablets, tablets---Baytril

2)Paramyxovirus (PMV): 501 PMV-1 Vaccine, one time use!

3)Canker: 1319 Metronidazole (Flagyl) 100 tablets, ----Metronidazole.. Ronidazole

3)Cocci: Avertex Tablets 100…….Coximed….water mix Corid 9.6%

4)Worms: Pyrantel liguid, Mediworm (Prantel pamoate 20MG, Praziquantel 5 MG) 


5)Pox: 510 Pox Vaccine.. one time use

6)Yeast: Medistatin, can’t find it in tablets.. Nystatin suspension…..Medistatin,

7)Propbiotic: 43 Veta-Farms Pro Botic Pow


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Medistatin doesn't come in tablets. You have to buy it in the powder form.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Where did you get these meds? from your vet or online?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> Where did you get these meds? from your vet or online?


You get them online. Do you have a list of the different pigeons supply places?

Jedd's
http://www.jedds.com/StoreFront.bok

Foy's
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/

Vita King
http://vitakingproducts.com/

New England Pigeon Supply
http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/

Global Pigeon Supply
http://www.globalpigeon.com/


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I've bought some of my pigeon stuff through Foys.
Jay3, do you have a favorite supplier?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

After spending time making a list from Foy's and trying to make the order online i kept on getting error on the shopping cart.
I called them an it just so happen that most of the meds that i need it where out of order..
Did not find them very helpful on the phone.. Move on to another company.

Joe





Jay3 said:


> You get them online. Do you have a list of the different pigeons supply places?
> 
> Jedd's
> http://www.jedds.com/StoreFront.bok
> ...


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

How about baytril? I assume this med you must have to get from a vet. I did find enroflox online (10% enrofloxin) but I do not know how useful this would be


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> How about baytril? I assume this med you must have to get from a vet. I did find enroflox online (10% enrofloxin) but I do not know how useful this would be



Baytril is Enroflox, also called Enrofloxyn.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I've bought some of my pigeon stuff through Foys.
> Jay3, do you have a favorite supplier?



No favorite, just depends on what it is that I'm looking for. The list I have posted doesn't include all the places I buy from, just too many to list and those are the more known sites. I don't care for Siegels, but have gotten Moxidectin Plus there, as I couldn't find it elsewhere. Since then I have found it. They sent something that should have been powder form, but moisture had gotten to it, and they knew about it, but sent it anyway. Well I wasn't going to use that, so sent it back for a refund. They claimed they never got it. And it wasn't cheap. It came hard as a brick, but their answer to that was to "just scrape it off to use it." So I lost the price of it, plus shipping. I don't use them anymore. Not great to do business with. If you can get what you need elsewhere, I would.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> I don't care for Siegels, but have gotten Moxidectin Plus there, as I couldn't find it elsewhere.


Good to know that they suck.
I was going to order some of that Moxidectin Plus from them today but it was out of order.
After reading your post I am glad that is was not available.
Mosidectin is also hard to find, i searched google and they are one of the few that have it listed.

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's okay Joe. You have Mediworm, which is also good I would think, as it works on tapeworm too. I'll probably pick that one up. And Jedd's has it. They're nice to deal with.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes their product seem to be well price and of good quality.
I only paid $15.00 for the bottle of 100 tablets locally


Joe




Jay3 said:


> That's okay Joe. You have Mediworm, which is also good I would think, as it works on tapeworm too. I'll probably pick that one up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> Yes their product seem to be well price and of good quality.
> I only paid $15.00 for the bottle of 100 tablets locally
> 
> 
> Joe


Wow! Great deal!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Dewormed her a 2nd time after 14 days and I only saw one small Pin worm in her drops.. It looked like a baby worm because it was about half inch and very thin...
I also gave her the meds for the canker.
She eats and drinks well however I have noticed a little bit of light green on her poops..
I am going to give her some vitamins and Probiotics in the next couple of days and monitor the poops...
Probably 10 more days of quarantine if everything goes well...



Joe




Joe Black said:


> Hello everyone,
> It seems that quarantine its already paying dividends with the new pigeons.
> I deworm her yesterday and this morning I found what appears to be “ascariasis.”
> She also seems to be very hungry now and wants to eat everything on her tray.
> ...


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That poor thing was full of them when you started.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Joe,

You should give them a little bit of garlic in the water-a few days a week, if you haven't. It will help them recover their immunities and at the same time help prevent parasites. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Rescue a young pigeon.*

Hello Everyone,
Today I found a pigeon on the street that needs our help.
It seems to be a young Hen no more than 6 months old. It’s not standing on his legs but moves around by keeping the balance with the open wings.
The only symptom of sickness I can see is the fact that is not standing on its own and dark green poops staying on his bottom feathers.
I check his mouth for canker and there is not. I also can’t see any signs of injury.
His legs seem to be a little swollen but not alarmingly so.
I force fed him 15 seeds and water and placed him in a small warm box away from my other birds.
I will like to start treating him with medication but I will like your advised first.
I have in my medicine cabinet the following medications for pigeons:
1)	Coximed Tablets (Coccidiosis)
2)	AvioTrich tablets (Trichomoniasis)
3)	Amoxicillin tablets 250mg (Fish Mox)
4)	Ronsec Tablets Cancker
5)	Baytril tablets.
6) Deworming, Medistatin, Spiradox, Ideal Pills, Vitamins, Cal......


My concern been the green poops will Baytril or Amoxicillin be the best treatment at the moment?
Also, bird seems to be in good spirits but malnutrition seems to be a area of concern.
I will appreciate your advised on the matter.
Regards
Joe


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Ouch!! With the color I wonder if it was/is a domestic. Be very careful to wash thoroughly hands, and may avoid wearing the same clothes etc. into the loft with your other birds.....don't want them catching this. Now green poops can be disease and also starvation. I don't have a lto of experience. Those legs, especially the one look very irritated. Could this be some odd injury (?). That one foot/leg looks really bad! There are no strings/hairs wrapped around there are there? I don't see any in the photo but wanted to be sure. Is there an injury on top of the head. Something is causing a bad infrection in there. Paratyphoid (Salmonella) will sometimes cause swelling type boils on the joints but I don't think it would cause a leg/foot to swell up. That is a bad infection caused by something. Follow the basics of warmth adn getting it hydrated first. Then see if it will eat (AFTER warmth and then hydration) but you may end up needing to force feed it (warmed frozen peas probably easiest) if she won't eat enough on her own. I would be tempted to go with the Baytril then as it is a good broad antibiotic.....maybe someone more experienced with a situation like this will chime in. Poor thing......thanks for taking her in.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I don’t see any blood or any injury on the legs. I fed her about 10 seeds and water. I am not sure if it’s eating on its owns because I just picked him up a couple of hours ago and I wanted to make sure it had food and water in the system.
The small spot on the head seems to be lack of feather and not an injury.
The legs and the green poops seem to be of concern; one of the legs looks a little dark in color but not too alarming. The same with the swelling on the legs they don’t look normal but not alarmingly swollen.
Yes, I will make sure to keep him away from my other birds and not enter the loft with the same cloth or even shoes that I used around the sick bird.
I check for injuries and or strings and I don’t see any.
I want to make sure that I start treatment tonight and wash him clean tomorrow if it looks better...
So you think Baytril is a good starting point?
I will wait for others before I start treatment but I want to hear the consensus...
Thanks

Joe





Woodnative said:


> Ouch!! With the color I wonder if it was/is a domestic. Be very careful to wash thoroughly hands, and may avoid wearing the same clothes etc. into the loft with your other birds.....don't want them catching this. Now green poops can be disease and also starvation. I don't have a lto of experience. Those legs, especially the one look very irritated. Could this be some odd injury (?). That one foot/leg looks really bad! There are no strings/hairs wrapped around there are there? I don't see any in the photo but wanted to be sure. Is there an injury on top of the head. Something is causing a bad infrection in there. Paratyphoid (Salmonella) will sometimes cause swelling type boils on the joints but I don't think it would cause a leg/foot to swell up. That is a bad infection caused by something. Follow the basics of warmth adn getting it hydrated first. Then see if it will eat (AFTER warmth and then hydration) but you may end up needing to force feed it (warmed frozen peas probably easiest) if she won't eat enough on her own. I would be tempted to go with the Baytril then as it is a good broad antibiotic.....maybe someone more experienced with a situation like this will chime in. Poor thing......thanks for taking her in.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

There is a LOT of swelling on that closer leg in the photo and the color is off. It looks like some swelling at the ball of the foot and again near the joint above. Glad you found him Joe! I would start with the Baytril if he seems stable. Maybe start a new thread with the above photos in the "sick and injured" part of this forum though some of the folks that were really experienced don't seem to be posting much lately. Good there are no injuries. Infection of some sort....I still wonder if Salmonella could make this type of swelling if it wasn't an injury. Baytrill would certainly be the best for that! Supplemental feeding is probably a good idea anyway if he is thin and obviously can't move around well. Good save and keep us updated!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Good Idea. I will post a new thread in the sick and injured area witht he above pictures..
I have email a few of the old timers have helped me out before...
Thanks for the information...

Joe




Woodnative said:


> There is a LOT of swelling on that closer leg in the photo and the color is off. It looks like some swelling at the ball of the foot and again near the joint above. Glad you found him Joe! I would start with the Baytril if he seems stable. Maybe start a new thread with the above photos in the "sick and injured" part of this forum though some of the folks that were really experienced don't seem to be posting much lately. Good there are no injuries. Infection of some sort....I still wonder if Salmonella could make this type of swelling if it wasn't an injury. Baytrill would certainly be the best for that! Supplemental feeding is probably a good idea anyway if he is thin and obviously can't move around well. Good save and keep us updated!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Help sick rescue*

Hello Everyone,
Today I found a pigeon on the streets that needs our help.
It seems to be a young Hen no more than 6 months old. It’s not standing on his legs but moves around by keeping the balance with the open wings.
The only symptom of sickness I can see is the fact that is not standing on its own and dark green poops staying on his bottom feathers.

I check his mouth for canker and there is none.
I also can’t see any signs of injury.
His legs seem to be a little swollen but not alarmingly so (see picture)
.
I force fed him 15 seeds and water and placed him in a small warm box away from my other birds.

I will like to start treating him with medication but I will like your advised first.
I have in my medicine cabinet the following medications for pigeons:
1)	Coximed Tablets (Coccidiosis)
2)	AvioTrich tablets (Trichomoniasis)
3)	Amoxicillin tablets 250mg (Fish Mox)
4)	Ronsec Tablets Cancker
5)	Baytril tablets.
6) Deworming, Medistatin, Spiradox, Ideal Pills, Vitamins, Cal......


My concern at the moment is the dark green and swollen of the joints on the legs.
Also one leg seems to be a little darker than normal. 
Will Baytril or Amoxicillin be the best treatment at the moment?
Also, bird seems to be in good spirits but malnutrition seems to be a area of concern.
I will appreciate your advised on the matter.
Regards
Joe


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

How is she today?? DIma has a post on November 13 about two recent pigeons she found with swollen feet but no response there either, unfortunately. She had another that seemed paralyzed in the legs (not swollen) that responded to Baytril. Given no injuries I would still be inclined to think Salmonella and hopefully she will respond to the Baytril and your supportive care. Pretty bird (or at least she once was and will be). Looks small in the photo.....is she roller size or is that an illusion.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Hi Joe,

Good of you to rescue the bird.

This looks like a youngster, and definitely could be suffering from mal-nourishment, starvation and may not even be eating on its own.

Before you go giving it any meds, it would be best to continue to hand feed and try to generate an interest in the seed and see if it will start eating on its own. I think probiotics are also in order as the youngster may be depleted in good gut bacteria and just needs beneficial flora to ward off any bad bacteria.

Keep bird warm and just keep close eye and see if the condition improves. Also, calcium and D3 is in order. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*First 24 hours...*

Thanks everyone,

I just checked him a few minutes ago. He looked alert and seems to be grooming himself.
He is definitely a youngster because with day light I can see a little bit of the corn hairs in the area of the head.
I gave him lots of water mix with a little bit of honey/sugar and a pinch of salt for hydration.
I also gave him about 30 seeds and an ideal Pill Booster.
Yesterday I jumped the gun and gave him 20mg Baytri…

Here are my two areas of concern:


1)	One of the legs as seen on the pictures seems to be a little dark in color not overwhelming dark but abnormal. I have checked for injury to the leg and don’t see anything unusual. He is not standing on his own and falls forward when he tries. His wings are working find and he can manage small lift when looking to gain balance.


2)	Dark green watery poops. I placed a white paper towel under him last night and this morning I found a normal amount of dark green watery poops. Mal-nourishment, starvation is definitely a factor but I am not sure if they are the cause of the green poops.

I will continue to monitor closely. Tomorrow I plan of Deeping him in warm water to clean all of the green matter from his legs and the bottom of his opening and observe if he has any other issues in the area.

I look forward to everyone’s input in the matter


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Glad you found him.

Swelling looks more like an injury due to the dark color, but may as well be from bacterial infection ( salmonella). I had a rescue who started to swell under the foot, then swelling went around the ankle ( he was caught due to dropping wing). I kept him 1 month on Baytril. Swelling still there after treatment, but its going down visibly. 

Do not forget Nystatin/ Medistation / probiotics while on Baytril. ( Baytril dose i use it higher 30 mg/ kg) Please give for Coccidia and let the meds for worms when he is in better shape.

Pigeon looks quite young to me, about 4 months old.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I can bring the dose of Baytril up to 30MG i kept him at 25 because he is young and weights very little.

I have Coximed for (coccidiosis) you are telling me to treat him with it at the same time as Baytril?

I been feeding 30 seeds and lots of water 3 times a day. He is looking much better today but the leg is not looking any better.

I think is possible that he dropped from a high area and injured his leg even do i don't see any dislocation or fracture.
I trimmed some of the feathers around the leg area to better diagnose an injury but everything seems normal except the color and swelling.

I have Medistatin but i want to wait at list 48 hours before i bombarding him with more medication...

Thanks Dima...

Joe




Dima said:


> Glad you found him.
> 
> Swelling looks more like an injury due to the dark color, but may as well be from bacterial infection ( salmonella). I had a rescue who started to swell under the foot, then swelling went around the ankle ( he was caught due to dropping wing). I kept him 1 month on Baytril. Swelling still there after treatment, but its going down visibly.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Please don't post here.. Click on the link bellow and post there to keep all the information in one area..




http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/i-found-a-pigeon-65558-12.html?highlight=wingy


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> I can bring the dose of Baytril up to 30MG i kept him at 25 because he is young and weights very little.
> 
> I have Coximed for (coccidiosis) you are telling me to treat him with it at the same time as Baytril?
> 
> ...


Medistatin has to be given while on Baytril , as far as i know.
You can save Coximed for the time when he will start eating on its own.

I see that the knee is also swollen. Could be an injury , not dislocation, if the knee is swollen, but i don't see how how he injured his leg if only the cushion of his foot got swollen in the same time with the knee and not all the ankle around.

You may allow him one day not to handfeed him. If he is full, he will not eat the seeds.

Good luck.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Joe Black said:


> Please don't post here.. Click on the link bellow and post there to keep all the information in one area..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I have merged your two threads, per your request to keep all info in one area. *


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*improvements*

Hello everyone,

Pigeon seems to be doing ok. I have been feeding him 30 seeds in the morning and 30 in the afternoon together with lots of water, an Ideal Pill, 1 calcium pill and 25mg of baytril daily.

The leg looks the same but the poops seems to be a little more solid with the same color green but with a little more white…
He seems to be more alert and favoring one leg not just lying flat like the day before.

Base on my 48 hour of observation I am incline to think that the green poops was due to starvation and the swollen leg a possible injury.
I will continue the treatment of Baytrill for 7 days and monitor the poops to see if it improves over the next 24 hours...
All recommendations are welcome...

Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I was inclined to think the same, but asked someone with a lot of experience what they thought, and they feel that it could maybe be salmonella. That had crossed my mind, but I was hoping for it not to be. I would feed him defrosted peas. You can't get enough food into him with hand feeding seed.
Also, don't give him calcium if he is getting Baytril. Many people believe that it is only the cyclines that you have to pull the calcium with, but it has been shown that calcium will also bind to Baytril.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Jay.

If you feel that i can be Salmonella what is the best medication to treat him. I have Amoxicillin 250MG pills here...
Please advice...


Joe




Jay3 said:


> I was inclined to think the same, but asked someone with a lot of experience what they thought, and they feel that it could maybe be salmonella. That had crossed my mind, but I was hoping for it not to be. I would feed him defrosted peas. You can't get enough food into him with hand feeding seed.
> Also, don't give him calcium if he is getting Baytril. Many people believe that it is only the cyclines that you have to pull the calcium with, but it has been shown that calcium will also bind to Baytril.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

The only two symptoms right now are one swollen leg that looks a little dark causing balance issues but I noticed today that he was standing in one leg not for long but without losing balance.
The other is the green poops but today I noticed the poops not as soft and with a little bit of white.
I was giving him 30 seeds in the morning and 30 in the afternoon.
1 Qtr. pill of calcium and the Idea Pills to help with recovery.
I been giving him 25 mg of Baytril once a day, tonight is the 3rd pill…
He is not twisting the neck or showing other negative symptoms and seems very alert. He was even grooming himself this morning.
I have him inside the house away from my loft but I am concern with the safety of my other pigeons….


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Joe Baytril is the best for Salmonella no calcium


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I been giving him Baytril 20MG daily. He seems to be doing fine.
Is that the correct dosage...

Thanks a million..


Joe



Woodnative said:


> Joe Baytril is the best for Salmonella no calcium


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> I been giving him Baytril 20MG daily. He seems to be doing fine.
> Is that the correct dosage...
> 
> Thanks a million..
> ...


Give him 10 mg daily in one dose.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I am confused. Baytril 25 mg per day - NO

*25 **mg **per **kg*..if you give high dose then very dark green droppings will come up. But depend on what strength you have in Baytril

Yes, no CA as mentioned.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima said:


> I am confused. Baytril 25 mg per day - NO
> 
> *25 **mg **per **kg*..if you give high dose then very dark green droppings will come up. But depend on what strength you have in Baytril
> 
> Yes, no CA as mentioned.


Who said anything about 25 mg?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Who said anything about 25 mg?


In the last page one of Joe's posts it was mentioned to drop the dosage from 30 mg to 25 mg, on this page he mentioned 20 mg daily. I was referring 30mg/kg in my first posts. That was my confusion: dosage daily or per kg.

10 mg daily as you said it's ok.
Dark poop could be blood if this dose is to high for his weight.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I am sorry if I have created some confusion in the dosage of Baytril.
I have been giving the bird one dose of 20+/-mg daily total.
If 20mg is too much then I can give him 12.50MG a QTR of a 50MG tablet.
It’s closer to the 10MG daily Jay suggested.
Thanks Jay, Dima and everyone else you guys are the best……… 
The green poops were already present before I administered the first dose of Baytril…





Dima said:


> I am confused. Baytril 25 mg per day - NO
> 
> *25 **mg **per **kg*..if you give high dose then very dark green droppings will come up. But depend on what strength you have in Baytril
> 
> Yes, no CA as mentioned.





Jay3 said:


> Who said anything about 25 mg?





Dima said:


> In the last page one of Joe's posts it was mentioned to drop the dosage from 30 mg to 25 mg, on this page he mentioned 20 mg daily. I was referring 30mg/kg in my first posts. That was my confusion: dosage daily or per kg.
> 
> 10 mg daily as you said it's ok.
> Dark poop could be blood if this dose is to high for his weight.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Joe-
Yes, as above 10mg per day for the bird would be best. Continue at least 10 days and follow after completion of the Baytril with a good pigeon/bird probiotic. Partatyphoid IS curable with Baytril. It may take a little while for the swelling to go down and the leg to heal afterwards but the Salmonella should be gone. Glad you already have seen some improvement. I bet that will be a knockout beautiful bird this time next year after recovering and next year molting in full adult feathers. Good save!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
I have good news, today when I got back home I found the pigeon outside the box and on top of a small arm chair I have in the room.
I placed her inside a bird housing I have with water and food.
I few minutes later saw him eating and drinking with ease.

A few hours later I clean all the dry poops from his bottom area with warm water and gave him his medication.
After cleaning the area and further inspection of the leg I noticed what seems to be an injury.

He has a small blood spot and what seems to be a skin scrape.
The leg is not as swollen as yesterday but it seems to angle kind of backwards...

I checked for fractures or dislocation and I don’t see any.
When I placed him back in the cage he was standing up for a few seconds on the healthy leg.
Overall I think the bird is doing fine and I am starting to feel like the issues is an injury to the leg and starvation.

My concern at the moment is the leg. I don’t know if the leg is dislocated or he is just dragging it as part of the injury.
If I don’t see any improvement on the leg in the next 24 hour I will have no choice but to take him to a Vet and get abuse with a $400 bill….

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

If she had the leg swollen, supposedly from bacterial infection, then could also be that she scarped the skin, due to the fact that she cannot use the leg.

Do you have Meloxicam, Metacam? It good for pain and swelling.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

The leg is injured because is not looking normal to me.
She drags the leg and it seems to be angle awkward.
I will keep her with the daily dose of Baytril for 10 days just in case.
I don't have the Meloxicam but i see if I can pick it up tomorrow in the local pigeon store.
Thanks Dima




Dima said:


> If she had the leg swollen, supposedly from bacterial infection, then could also be that she scarped the skin, due to the fact that she cannot use the leg.
> 
> Do you have Meloxicam, Metacam? It good for pain and swelling.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I have Ibuprofen for Humans do you think is similar to Meloxicam


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes, I am 90% sure that the issues are an injury and lack of food.
The best thing about this pigeon is the attitude. He seems to adjust quickly and is eager to improve his health.
I cleaned him up last night and trim some of the area around the bottom.
He had a lot of dry poops that was preventing the natural process of pooping.
Now that the area is clean I have a better view point on the left leg.
The leg seems to be lose right on the joint and when he stand the leg gives out and he extends the lack towards the back like a penguin when swimming under water or like a diving bird.
The right leg seems to be normal but the lack of balance and positioning makes angle not completely under him.
Again my biggest concern is the color of the damage leg. At times it looks a little dark around the toes as if there is lack of blood circulation.
I been thinking about taking him to the vet tomorrow and see what they have to say. Of course the concern with the vet are always they fact that down here the cost of a simple visit to the best is more expensive than my college tuition.
My other idea was building a harness and suspend him on the air for a few hours a day to see if the leg circulation improves…
The picture shows the position of the left but it looks more dramatic than it really is. The toes tend to get caught in awkward angle do to the position of the leg but they are not naturally bent when I inspect the leg.
If I position both legs together they look normal but the damage leg seems to be more losing right at the joint area causing it to move backwards when he tries to stand up.
I have seen this happen in young birds when they are not strong enough to stand up but in this care is clearly an injury…


Thanks a million for all of your help,


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> I have Ibuprofen for Humans do you think is similar to Meloxicam


IMO, Ibuprofen NO.
Meloxicam is pain med for humans, if you can get that, we'll tell you how to make the suspension. 
Metacam for animals has Meloxicam in it.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's a link for you to get an idea for suspended net:

Good luck again. Glad it's ruled out Salmonella. Keep her on Baytril for any infection.

http://mis-amigas-las-palomas.blogspot.com.es/2013/11/como-y-para-que-construir-una-hamaca.html


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Great news, I got back home tonight to find the bird had eating most of the food I had left him.
I fed her some extra peas and gave him some water just in case.
Tomorrow I have schedule an appointment with my vet to check the leg.
I will post an update in the late afternoon..
Thanks Dima and everyone else for all of your help.
Joe


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make sure you don't leave him at the vet. Waiting to hear what they have to say.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Great link. I had something similar in mind.. Lets see what the vet has to say tomorrow..
Thanks Dima



Dima said:


> Here's a link for you to get an idea for suspended net:
> 
> Good luck again. Glad it's ruled out Salmonella. Keep her on Baytril for any infection.
> 
> http://mis-amigas-las-palomas.blogspot.com.es/2013/11/como-y-para-que-construir-una-hamaca.html


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

The Vet is an old Russian with a good heart. He saved one of my rescue chihuahuas after broken hip and let when every vet in town told me to killed killed him...
I call the aviary vet in my area and they told me $100.00 for visit plus exams and everything else that can come to mind.
I call my dogs vet to asked him for advised and he told me to bring her in the morning that he is very familiar with pigeons...
I feel much better dealing with him that with my own doctor..

Joe



Jay3 said:


> Make sure you don't leave him at the vet. Waiting to hear what they have to say.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, it just occurred to me that you can ask that vet for some Nystatin 100,000 units/ml suspension.
It is like the Medistatin you have, only much easier to give. With the Medistatin, you have to give it in the water, or you need a gram scale to figure out how much to give him, and it works out to be more that you have to get into him. The Nystatin is just lots easier. Since you have a vet, then there should be no problem getting it from him. Just explain that being on Baytril is likely to cause a yeast infection. So it should be given daily, as long as he is on Baytril, and a few days after.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Joe-
Hope "******" is doing ok? We are waiting for an update!! No matter what happens thanks again for taking this guy in and at least giving him care and a chance!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,

As I had mentioned a couple of days ago I took the bird to a vet friend that takes good care of all my rescue dogs for many years.. I did not know that he was also an avian vet and bird lover...
His diagnose was that the bird had 90% chance of losing the leg. He thinks that the bird had been tangle in some wires for a few days causing damage to the leg’s circulation and somehow she got untangle but unable to move due to starvation and tiredness…
He gave me some medication to rub on her leg for 10 days and if there was no improvement amputation of the leg will be in order...
He check her pops for bacteria and found none and told me never to give Baytril for more than 7 days to any bird unless it was the only and last option…
He claims that even do Baytril is great it causes kidney or liver damage in the majority of the pigeons…
He also mentions that the bird will make a full recovery to keep on feeding her as much as she will eat...

After giving the bird her first treatment I noticed a big improvement in the mobility of the leg and she no longer kept it stretched out backwards, now she placed it right under her. A couple of days later she started standing up a lot better, however the coloring on the left and texture is indicating that the damage is irreversible and that unless there is a miracle she will lose the leg from the joint down..

The sad part is that she is finally standing up with both legs for a few minutes at a time but the damage to the leg is visible, it’s drying up like a tree branch...
If anyone has had a bird with a missing leg please let me know how to cope with this handicap…
Lucky that I have a loft with sleeping quarters for her and a couple of good pigeons that will keep her company…
Good night everyone,

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

They do fine without one leg. I just rescued one today. The reason i got him is because its freezing rain and i am worried for his and only foot, which has a bit of damage.
This pigeon is been around for a long time and survived well in the wild.

Yes, baytril is bitter and can damage the liver. But you have to give apple sauce and the right dose. I gave to all my rescues Baytril and since i had the ones with SALMONELLA i go 14 days now. Don't want to risk. If the pigeon is very weak, i wouldn't put him on Baytril right away.

Thank you for updates. I hope he recovers. Some gentle massage every day wouldn't hurt.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks Dima,

She is looking a lot better with all the love and care she is getting.
If you want i can pm you the name of the medication the doc gave me for this bird and you can apply it to the leg of your rescue.
I know that once i applied it to the pigeon with in hours the leg was not longer stretch backwards.
It seems to help a lot...
Lets see how it goes the next few days and if needed how she will recover from a possible amputation..

Joe




Dima said:


> They do fine without one leg. I just rescued one today. The reason i got him is because its freezing rain and i am worried for his and only foot, which has a bit of damage.
> This pigeon is been around for a long time and survived well in the wild.
> 
> Yes, baytril is bitter and can damage the liver. But you have to give apple sauce and the right dose. I gave to all my rescues Baytril and since i had the ones with SALMONELLA i go 14 days now. Don't want to risk. If the pigeon is very weak, i wouldn't put him on Baytril right away.
> ...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> Thanks Dima,
> 
> She is looking a lot better with all the love and care she is getting.
> If you want i can pm you the name of the medication the doc gave me for this bird and you can apply it to the leg of your rescue.
> ...


I have no doubt that LOVE is the most important medicine.
Wish you a Merry Christmas, Joe!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Merry Christmas everyone,
This morning I noticed this morning that pigeon was breathing with the beak open and wizing sound from the chest and I can see the chest compression that seems like extra effort to breathing.
I will call it constant deep breath or open beak and heavy breathing with wizing sound from the chest ,
I haven’t noticed any other symptoms; she is eating and drinking normal.
This is the same pigeon with the leg issues so she has been moving very little and is not flying...
I just took her off Baytril yesterday and she had a Vet visit three days ago...
Any information will be appreciated.
I have medication on hand but I want to observe before I pop any medication into her as she just came out of 7 days of baytril and she is a thin pigeon at the moment…

I have in my medicine cabinet Spiradox: Doxycycline HCL with Spiramycin I also have Amoxicillin tablets...
Please advice.....

Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Put your ears between wings, on the back ..listen..is there any crackling sounds? If yes, then is respiratory and you go with Doxy, otherwise use Metronidazole for Canker. He may puke Metronidazole piece ( 40mg) , so give a drop of Pepto-Bismol before.

Open the beak, do you see any different color on opening of the palate? After baytril, make sure you treat for yeast.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

She has the crackling sound coming out of her longs. I gave her one tablet of Doxycycline with spiramycin ( Spiradox) from Avio Med.
I have been giving her Medistatin in the water with the baytril tablets as recommended.
I open the beak and I noticed a little bit of off white on the back of the throat that look like canker but she get agitated and I don’t want to stress her anymore.

Do you recommend I treat for canker also just in case.
Will it be too much medication for the poor bird who weighs 350 grams…?
She is not eating do I give her the peas like I was doing when I rescue her.
I am concern giving her food and water with her breathing problem and stress her out even more.

I have Ronsec and Metronidazole 100MG for canker…..
Again my concern is too much medication and not enough food...
Will it be ok to give her food and water on her condition and also give her the canker medication after I gave her the doxycycline this morning?
It’s been 8 hours since I gave her the doxy and I see no improvement...

Please advise...

If I don’t see any improvement in the morning I will take her to the vet... I called them this morning and they were close for the holidays…
All the help I can get will be appreciated…
Joe



Dima said:


> Put your ears between wings, on the back ..listen..is there any crackling sounds? If yes, then is respiratory and you go with Doxy, otherwise use Metronidazole for Canker. He may puke Metronidazole piece ( 40mg) , so give a drop of Pepto-Bismol before.
> 
> Open the beak, do you see any different color on opening of the palate? After baytril, make sure you treat for yeast.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I just gave her some peas and i dont see any improvements.
I gave her spiradox tablet this morning at around 10:00 am..
How long does it takes to see some positive results...
Will be it ok to give her canker medication i see something white at the back of her throat...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

350 g pigeon, it's a good weight. My rescues hardly have over 300g.

I wouldn't give any med in the water. 

Takes more than 8 hr to get the improvement.

White in the back of the mouth can be yeast/ Candida , as well as Canker.

Doxy dose is 0.2 ml or 0.3 ml. For Canker i would go with Metronidazole.

Give Medistatin; if you hand feed then you can sprinkle over the peas. Jay suggested to get Nystatin from vet; it's the best.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Sorry if i confused you also.
All the medication has been given via tablets orally.
The only medication added to the water was Medistatin...

Not sure why i posted Coximed.........




Dima said:


> 350 g pigeon, it's a good weight. My rescues hardly have over 300g.
> 
> I wouldn't give any med in the water.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello Everyone,
I am sad to tell you that my rescue pigeon die yesterday in the morning.
She was recovering well from the leg injury but got sick with a respiratory illness and lasted 24 hours after I noticed the signs..
I am extremely sad because she was a fighter and I had high hopes that she will recover but it did not happen..
She was doing so well the last couple of days and it all when down south quick..
I am extremely disappointed right now but when I feel better I will write a detail post on the medication I gave her and the symptoms to see what when wrong...
Thanks again for all your help,
Joe


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I am so sorry Joe. Little pigeon will rest in peace. 
You did the best you could, don't forget that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry too Joe. Really sorry. Maybe it was aspiration. Or canker? Without tests you will probably never know.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Joe-
Just saw this. Sorry things did not end as hoped but you certainly did all you could and gave this bird the best chances possible!! Peace!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Sour Crop*

I noticed that one of my rescue pigeons was retaining water in the Crop and looked a little lethargic. 

I removed him from the loft and isolated him to better assets his condition. 
I checked his Crop and I noticed that he had a few grains and once I gently press on the crop I noticed that water will come out of his beak.
I research online and it seems that his symptoms were similar to Sour Crop. I read that at times the bird will emit a funky odor from the Crop but my bird did not have any nasty odor and had no signs of Canker anywhere in the beak or the visible areas inside.

This bird a rescue that I found about two years ago walking on the side walk of my neighborhood and fighting over food with some wood pigeons. He looked unhealthy at the time because of his postures and his saggy Crop and a cute hunger on his back bat after good care he love he became the boss of the loft and seem very healthy till now... I am not sure how old he is but when I first found him my impression was that he was an old Bird.

Anyways back to the matter at hand… AS per online Instruction I gave him some water with Baking Soda, Some water with apple cider vinegar, I gave him some apple sauce, mineral oil, I gave him some medication for Canker, I gave him some medistatin and he was not getting any better; his crop was full of water and he was resting it on the floor of the cage because the weight was probably bother his back..

I decided to take him to the vet yesterday and he proceeded to perform a Drain and flush on the crop, gave him some injection of B-complex, Dexamethasone, and Iantraconazole and sends him home with Bactrim and Iatraconazole. He told me to feed him soft food for the next couple of days and monitor him… After he got home he pooped for the first time in days but the poops was very green as a sign of malnutrition/starvation and very little but at list if a positive sign because he had not pooped for 3 days because he was not taking any food beyond his crop…

I have posted a copy of the Medical bill for the record and I will love to hear your advice on the matter...

I haveKaytee baby formula and apple sauce I will like to know if this is proper nutrition for the next couple of days. I will hate to give him grains and risks have the grains stock on his Crop again… 

Thanks in advance and all comments are welcome.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks Joe for posting in. Wish your bird recovers. If you post a new thread for a new question, more members would access it.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*sick bird*

The pricing list the vet charged you with is normal . Bird vet care is expensive- that is all.
i do think from my experience is bringing him to the vet was the right thing to do.Please keep doing what is prescribed by the vet. it takes a while for birds to recover especially if they have been hiding their illness. keep us posted.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Thanks*

Great Idea.. I will repost in a new thread.. I just wanted to keep everything inside this thread since it has the history of the bird since i first rescue him but i think you are right it will be difficult for people to follow with some many pages...

Thanks again...



kiddy said:


> Thanks Joe for posting in. Wish your bird recovers. If you post a new thread for a new question, more members would access it.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Move the Thread here.... Please click on the link if you will like to reply.. Thanks

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/sour-crop-77958.html#post825846


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

My lovely and first Pigeon Wingy die today of unknown illness... His mate past away about two weeks ago.. I notice that Wingy was looking light and took him to the Avian vet. he prescribed three medications, dewormer , metro and cipro for 10 days...3 days after the treatment he showed improvement but then when down hills and today he die... i did my best to keep him healthy for five years but today my 500 dollar vet bill and my care was not enough.... I will miss him.....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry you lost him Joe. What did the vet say he had? What tests did he do?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Avian Doctors are real ****. They don't care about pigeons at all and only care about removing money from our pockets. This guy charged my wife $490.00 for looking at Wingy and doing a blood test. He did not find anything wrong with him aside from some parasite in the liver (same as last time) and nothing else.
He treated with de-wormer and gave him metro and cipro to cover any possible issue.... He actually got better three days after but then he started going south and stopped eating and built fluid in the crop.... I am out of town and the wife did her best to feed him every day.... He vomited a few times from the medications wife gave him pepto and it worked for a couple of days... 



Jay3 said:


> I'm sorry you lost him Joe. What did the vet say he had? What tests did he do?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am very sorry for your loss of Wingy.


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