# New member, need help for injured pigeon



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hello everyone, I've been hunting for some help and can't believe I have found this forum. I have been asked to take on this pigeon by a lady who found it under her car. I would think it has been attacked as it has some of it's wing and tail feathers missing. More importantly it has an injured foot, or it maybe it's leg I can't tell exactly. It does use it to stabalize itself but holds it's toes out straight all the time , no grip action. It is eating and drinking, bless it, but I don't know how to deal with it's foot. I am scared to take it to a vets as they might just put it down. The RSPCA told me that vets are supposed to treat wildlife, but I heard my local one turn someone away with a bird one day when I was there with my dog, so I don't know where to go. I really want to give it a proper chance to see if anything can be done for it. Any advice appreciated.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi amyable and thanks for helping this pigeon out. If the bird were attacked
by another animal, antibiotics are in order. Can you tell us whereabouts in 
England you are located, we have members there who may be able to either
help themselves or point you in the right direction.

fp


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Feralpigeon, I'm from Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, not far from Birmingham.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

OK, English, but still greek to me geography wise. I did send an SOS to 
5 of our English members who are knowledgable on the topic of where to 
seek help.

Do you have any meds on hand or the ability to obtain any?

fp


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

No meds I'm afraid, I don't know what exactly I can give. Not able to get prescription drugs, is there anything from a health food shop perhaps. Problem now it's Sunday, not many of those places open today.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Could you feel up its legs and compare them, looking for swelling and that sort of thing? Here's a link to skeletal drawings so that you can better understand the structure:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

So, you're saying that the bird does put the leg down to the ground to steady itself, it just won't walk on it?

Pidgey


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Amyable, Please keep the piggie indoors safe and warm until we can work out what to do.
You say he is eating and drinking. Please put a small bowl of water near him and perhaps a bit of brown bread if you have not got any seed.

There is a wildlife rescue centre near Birmingham, This is the address;

Holly Trees Animal Rescue Trust,
Packhorse Lane, 
Hollywood, Birmingham,

Phone number 01564823244

Please do not take the piggie to RSPCA as it might be put to sleep.

I am emailing you my home phone number in a private message. You can call me right now and I will try to advise you better.
Jayne


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks canaryjayne, this one may well need some antibiotics as you know.
Please keep us updated when you can, amyable.

fp


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

I have spoken to amyable on the telephone. 
Piggie is very comfortable in a nice big cage and can stretch his wings. He has some baby rearing food and water and piece of turf he can sit on.
He has lost tail and some flight feathers which means he cannot fly properly for five to six weeks. Amyable is going to contact the wildlife centre and take him there.
I can take him if that is not an option as Wildcare is near me and they have an aviary and would help.
Cynthia will be online in the morning and will advise Amyable about antibiotics as she knows more.
Piggie is safe and warm for the night, so we are all off to bed.
Thank you for caring Amyable. Please keep posting, phone me anytime.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

canaryjayne said:


> ......
> Cynthia will be online in the morning and will advise Amyable about antibiotics as she knows more.
> Piggie is safe and warm for the night, so we are all off to bed.
> Thank you for caring Amyable. Please keep posting, phone me anytime.


canaryjayne, the two drugs of choice in ER's are Clavamox/Augmentin and Doxycycline, if you are able to obtain. Of course others are options if neither of
these two are on the horizon or in anyone's medicine cabinet.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Amyable, 


Missing Tail Feathers are typical of predation scenarios such as Cats or Dogs.

You may wish to check the Pigeon carefully on it's sides and Wings and shoulders and rear areas for small punctures or lacerations, and these can be yard to see with all those Feathers covering everything...but you can feel them sometimes as little bumps under the feathers, too, then look further under the Feathers when you think you may feel one.

Foot may have a sprain or broken bone, so check it also for swelling, as well as checking higher up.

Anyway, the danger or worry when they have escaped from a Cat or Dog, is that the saliva of either, or the claws of Cats, or bites generally, can sometimes see the Bird develp infections, and these can be lethal in only a few days time.

Amoxiycillin or Clavamox are the preferred recourse for these situations.


If no infection was imparted to the pigeon he or she can recover nicely without any medications...but the problem is, by the time you can tell gthey are definitely feeling poorly, it is close to too late.

Cat caught or Dog caught Pigeons are often either ill to begin with, young and inexperienced, or old, or in some way compromised.

If the Bird has a full Crop, and is pooping normally, we can assume they were probably healthy when attacked.

But then, it is hard to say feom here how old the attack event is by now for there to be anyhting remaining in their Crop.

Your Pigeon should have Bird Seed to eat if possible, and it may be a day or two before his or her appetite returns.

ACV-Water, being for this situation 2-1/2 TAblespoons of raw Apple Cider Vinger in a dedicated Galloon of Water, would be good for their drinking Water for the next week or ten days.

For now, have them on a white towell so you can see their poops and note their color and consistancy and number...and let us know about those as soon as you see any to tell of.

If you can post some images of the Pigeon, by all means do...so we can see them and note anything of import there.


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> canaryjayne, the two drugs of choice in ER's are Clavamox/Augmentin and Doxycycline


Clavamox/Augmentin is called Synulox in the UK. It is the antibiotic most often prescribed by vets so vets and rehabbers should have a good supply.

Thank you, Jayne, for being there and finding a suitable wildlife sanctuary.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cyro51, Canaryjayne said you would contact. Piggie is doing well today. I have given it some pigeon corn mix and it also likes egg feed, which I had recently for hand rearing a fledgling blackbird. It went straight for the pigeon feed and is drinking water. I noticed it was pruning it's feathers on it's back just now, unfortunately whenever I go near it is very wary and stops what it is doing. It certainly moves about the cage and sits either on a perch or on the turf looking out at the big bad world longingly. The lady actually found it a week ago so I'm hoping if it was going to go downhill due to a bite it might well have done so by now. I am not experienced at this and am very nervous of picking it up too much in case I do it any harm, that's why I feel happier if someone with some know how took it over. Jayne mentioned a rescue centre called Holly Trees in Birmingham, do you know them and if they would try and treat the foot condition? I do worry that some places will write Piggie off if it has a bad leg/foot. I have had contact with Safewings in the past when I've needed some advice on the phone and feel sure they would really do what they could. I'd be happy to drive it there if you think that is the best one. I spoke to a wild life centre yesterday before I found this forum and they said they do put them down if they feel they have too many problems, hence my hesitance in taking take it just anywhere.

Thanks for all your support to date, will keep you posted.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Amyable,

A foot problem shouldn't make a pigeon unreleasable. I have one that had both feet amputated, I kept him but he would have been releasable, he has no pain and no difficulty walking or holding his own with other pigeons.

If he is unreleasable or needs a soft release then ask Jacqui at Safewings to contact me and we will try to work something out (she has my number). I can't promise him a home here until I assess how many of my recent rescues need to stay and how many can go, but I am certain that we will be able to find somewhere for him. I am (I hope) releasing some of my rescues at an animal sanctuary near here, they have an aviary to sleep in at night but can fly free during the day. That arrangement might be ideal for a pigeon with fooot damage.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi All, Don't panic, I've just spoken to Holly Trees in Birmingham, absolutely great. They have a vet that will look it over and he said if I was going to lose Piggie I would have done by now so it looks like it stands a good chance. He put my mind at ease also about the fact so many survive with one leg so won't be put down just for that. I'm taking Piggie tomorrow so will let you know how it goes. I am so glad I came across you all I was really worried for it's future yesterday!!!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks for taking this pij in, amyable, and making sure that the bird recieved the care needed. Also many thanks to canaryjayne for scouting out a clinic
that would be pigeon friendly and provide care for the bird.

Yes, I didn't realize that the bird's trauma was in the week old range, this would
mean the bird was past the crisis stage in terms of antibiotic therapy. Cynthia,
Augmentin(Clavamox) is the medication of choice for animal wounds here as well, though ER's are finding new uses for old medications and Doxycycline is
the alternate drug used in ER's for animal bites where there is an allergic condition to penicillins in the patient provided they are 8yrs or older and not 
pregnant. There are other drug combinations that may be used, though 
Doxycycline is the only stand alone one that I've read about that is one
of two primary choices, the other being a combo, i.e., Augmentin/Clavamox.
Phil, Amoxicillin as a stand alone wouldn't be a drug of choice for animal bites
in ER rooms. Having said that, when we are here w/an emergency situation,
and someone says that they have Cipro or Amoxicillin for humans in their 
medicine cabinet, no one is going to turn their nose up at it. I did notice that 
at a UK site, they were using Doxy but in drug combination w/Metronidazole as an alternate to Clavamox/Augmentin.

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1997/04_97/cunha_1.htm

From the above link:

"Animal bites
Doxycycline is often used in emergency departments to treat patients seeking attention for animal bites. Many animal bites contain unusual organisms (eg, Pasteurella multocida, DF-2 [dysgonic fermenter type 2]) against which doxycycline is highly active. This use of doxycycline continues to increase, especially in penicillin-allergic patients, because animal bites are an important cause of morbidity and mortality throughout the world. "

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010415/1567.html

From the above link:

"Amoxicillin-clavulanate potassium (Augmentin) is the antibiotic of choice for a dog bite. For patients who are allergic to penicillin, doxycycline (Vibramycin) is an acceptable alternative, except for children younger than eight years and pregnant women. Erythromycin can also be used, but the risk of treatment failure is greater because of antimicrobial resistance.7,10 Other acceptable combinations include clindamycin (Cleocin) and a fluoroquinolone in adults or clindamycin and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Septra) in children.11"

http://www.cks.library.nhs.uk/bites_human_and_animal/in_summary

And from the above link originating in the UK it shows two preferred
drug combination therapies and one stand alone:

"# If an antibiotic is indicated, co-amoxiclav is first choice for bites managed in primary care.
# If the person is allergic to penicillin:

* Dog or cat bite: oxytetracycline or doxycycline plus metronidazole (not for children under 12 years, pregnant women, or breastfeeding"

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi fp, I missed the week old bit too.

My point about Synulox was that although UK vets keep a very limited drug store they all have Synulox. They also have Baytril, but that is not rcommended for cat bites.

Amyable, try to persuade them not to amputate the whole leg, only as much as it needs amputating. One of my pigeons had a complete amputation and although she was fine for a few years her remaining leg weakened and she had to use her wings as crutches, the feather damage from that left her unable to fly. 

Cynthia


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## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Hi fp, I missed the week old bit too.
> 
> My point about Synulox was that although UK vets keep a very limited drug store they all have Synulox. They also have Baytril, but that is not rcommended for cat bites.
> 
> ...


Hi Cynthia,the other month our vet sold me some Baytril for cat bite birds,should i ask him for Synulox if the Baytril is not the correct anti-biotic?
Cheers,Roy.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Baytril is what our vet has always given us for cat bite wounds.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Amyable, So glad piggie will now be safe and now has a good chance of recovery. This is just great news!
Colin, another member is also happy about taking his Woodie there. They do have a good reputation and the whole family contribute to the rescue work.

Thanks to feral pigeon, phil from las vegas, and Cynthia for their useful information.

Jayne


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

From this link regarding the treatment of infected bites involving pasteurella
multocida and other aerobic and anaerobic pathogens:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010415/1567.html

_"Other acceptable combinations include clindamycin (Cleocin) and a fluoroquinolone in adults or clindamycin and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Septra) in children."_

Baytril is used w/some reasurance that it will actually get the known pathogens found in animal bites only when it is used in a combination drug therapy. As a stand alone drug therapy, neither Baytril nor Amoxicillin are considered "drugs of choice" for animal and specifically cat, bites. 

And, from the link below:

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic60.htm

Is this quote:

"In/Out Patient Meds:

* Outpatient intravenous antibiotics may be possible for some patients.

Intravenous antibiotics for cat bites: Consider penicillin G for Pasteurella multocida plus a staphylococcal coverage antibiotic (eg, cefazolin or trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole [TMP/SMX]). *Do not use cephalosporins alone.* For patients allergic to penicillin, some authors recommend azithromycin and staphylococcal coverage.

Intravenous antibiotics for dog bites: Consider ampicillin/sulbactam. For patients allergic to penicillin, consider clindamycin and ciprofloxacin (adult) and clindamycin and TMP/SMX (children)."

So, most of the medications for animal bites are combination drug therapies.
If you are getting a script from a doctor and having it filled at the drugstore,
there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to get one of the medications
of choice. If you didn't have Augmentin on hand, you could use any of the
combination therapies in these links that are also used for the range of pathogens found in animal bites.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Jayne, thanks again for finding a pigeon friendly clinic to help this rescue 
out at.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi fp,


Wow, great links and info...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Hi Cynthia,the other month our vet sold me some Baytril for cat bite birds,should i ask him for Synulox if the Baytril is not the correct anti-biotic?


Hi Roy,

Yes, I would ask for Synulox. It is simpler than combining penicillin with the Baytril. This is from http://www.worldwidewounds.com and explains why Baytril on its own is not the best choice for cat wounds (in bold). I have left the rest of the text in because it is useful information on wound management:

_Caught-by-cat flesh wounds
Cat bites may range from tiny puncture wounds to lacerations. The muscle underneath a puncture wound may be lacerated due to the action of the teeth in immobile muscle (relative to the skin). Many wounds cannot be detected with the naked eye and the need for antibiotics may not be recognised in cases where there is no evidence of a puncture wound or scratch [18]. Septicaemia is a common sequel to a cat bite, while other routes of infection have also been suggested. Birds may ingest organisms from cat saliva-coated feathers during preening leading to gastrointestinal disease and septicaemia [18]. Cats carry Pasteurella multocida on their gingival tissue and teeth and antibiotics are therefore always indicated in any bird attacked by a cat [19], [20]. In addition to Pasteurella spp, a mixed aerobic/anaerobic population has been recovered from the majority of cat bite wounds [18]. *Selecting the right antibiotic (or antibiotic combination) is therefore of vital importance. Penicillins have been cited as the antibiotic of choice due to their efficacy against P. multocida [20] and their broad spectrum of action. Fluoroquinolones, such as the much-favoured enrofloxacin (Baytril) should not be used on their own as they lack action against anaerobes and provide incomplete coverage against Streptococci spp. For infected bites clavulanate-amoxycillin or combination therapy with penicillin, or clindamycin, and a fluoroquinolone is recommended. Ideally culture and sensitivity testing should be performed, but this will often be impossible for time and cost reasons. *
Bite wounds should be aggressively cleaned and flushed with saline or 0.05% chlorhexidine [20]. Flushing may need to be repeated. Puncture wounds can be left open to drain but lacerations should be dressed to protect the underlying tissues. Some puncture wounds may need to be opened up to facilitate access to the underlying traumatised tissues. 

Where the pectoral muscles have been lacerated, aggressive cleaning and debridement is indicated under general anaesthesia. Torn, necrotic muscle should be removed and the wound packed with a hydrogel. A hydrocolloid dressing (eg Duoderm Extra Thin) can be applied over the wounds to provide additional protection. The wounds should be reassessed after 24 to 48 hours and a decision made as to whether wound closure is appropriate (Figure 15 to Figure 18). _

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*It's a woodie!*

Amtrak were wonderful, they arrived before 8 am this morning.

The box was bouncing ! I should have listened more carefully when amyable said that she didn't like to get near it because it got so agitated. That was a big clue. The other one was the way he looked out of the window at the other pigeons.

I have renamed him Lambswood (I considered Lambwood first but it doesn't slip off the tongue, We know we will refer to him as Lambsie anyway.)

I haven't examined him very thoroughly as I want him to rest and calm down for a while, he must have found the journey very stressful. But his foot doesn't look at all bad and should heal quickly. 

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*What a result!!!!!!!*

Hi Cyro51,

I've just come in from walking my dogs and gone straight to my messages, I've been like a cat on hot bricks waiting to know if it arrived safely. I am sooooo relieved, excited, chuffed, and every other emotion at seeing the picture. I can't tell you how pleased I am. I love the new name, it fits well, and can't thank you enough for taking it 'under your wing'.

Obviously it's had a stressful night and hope it settles down soon in it's new surroundings. Do you have any ideas at the moment as to what is the problem with it's foot or leg?

I'd love to hear about it's progress when you have time, thanks again.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I think his leg is just bruised.

I have put a juvenile collared dove in the cage with him, we have had woodies and collared doves together before and they get along well. I hope that he won't feel isolated or frightened with a companion.

Cynthia


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Yes, this has been a very good day for Woodie-home and safe at last!!!
Thank you so much for taking on Lambsie. I am sure he will settle once he has met your other Woodies.
Good news also that his leg is just bruised.
Thanks also to Amyable for helping Woodie.
You found the best place for this bird.
Ill look forward to hearing the updates Cynthia.
Jayne


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Lambsie's new friend*

 Evening All, 

thanks Cynthia for the leg report, that is good news, just needs some nice new flight feathers and he'll grow into a handsome chap,( or chapess).

He must be glad to have some bird company, that's probably why he was so skittish when I was around, thought he'd only got me for company! that would be enough to send anyone loopy!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

In the wild doves are not really flock birds. They will feed together but then fly off in ones and twos in separate directions. If there is a food and water supply then they will do well even if released alone.

Today I found an ever younger wood pogeon than Lambswood, who will be released with him. They need an older, experienced wood pigeon to show then what they can eat in the wild, but Hallswood can supply that! Besides which Hallswood feed their resident free flying pigeons and the woodies will be able to shrae that.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia, Thanks for the dove info, that's good news for the one I referred to, I'm sure it will be fine then.

Hallswood sounds like a perfect situation for releasable pigeons, I wish there was somewhere similar around here, I vote we relocate all pigeons to your part of the world, no worries then!! 

Love to Lambwood and co.  

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet.

Lambswood progressed to the aviary today and immediately headed for the perches used by the non flying woodpigeons, which are thick branches placed under trees, He is still limping but manages to fly up the the persches which are perhaps a foot above the ground. I will post photos tomorrow.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Lambswood*

Hi Cynthia,

Sorry didn't see your post until today as I have to queue to get on the computers at the weekend!

Thank you so much for the update, I've been thinking about Lambswood all the time, sending him my get well thoughts.

So pleased he's trying out his wings. I did put a branch at ground level in the cage I kept him in. I wasn't sure if I should, but thought it might be good for his better foot to be kept actively gripping, if that makes sense. I did hope he might try gripping with his poorly foot, but he never did. Anyway he did spend some time sitting on it, the branch that is, aswell as crouching on the ground.

Has he calmed down a bit yet when you're around? and how does he like being with other pigeons. Sorry about all the questions, I'm really keen to hear how he's progressing.

Send him my love,

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

He fixes a beady and very wary eye on me whenever I go near the aviary . And like the other wood pigeons he pretends that the pigeons he is forced to live with don't exist. Despite this the woodies tend to congregate in the "woodie" areas of the shed.

I will take photos tomorrow.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*The Woodie Clan*

Hi Cynthia,

Seems Lambswood acquired that beady look from being peered at by me. Do Woodies ever get friendly or is this a normal trait?

At this place I pop into to help with cleaning occasionally, I now notice the two Woodies in one pen seem very wary of me whereas the other pigeons gather around my feet when I go in their's. (They know I'm a soft touch and always carry some titbits.) I had thought it was because they have been there longer, but now I'm wondering if it is just the 'Woodie's way'.

I appreciate your update as always, looking forward to pictures soon. 

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Woodies are very wary but some are bolder than others.

Our Norwood was just about the same age as Lambswood when she arrived, she kept her distance but also noticed that Littlewood, who was hand raised, got more than his fair share of treats as he would fly up and eat from our hands. So gradually she started to imitate him, ate from our hands, perched on John's shoulder and enjoyed being stroked. However, now that she and Littlewood have paired up she has become wary again.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Here is a photo of Lambswood (foreground) and Sherwood (background), taken yesterday.

Lambswood is fitting in well.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oh, that is a pretty sight. You know, they have the most beautiful coloring. I would love to see one in person. In that picture, their bodies look "chunkier" (an old southern word  ) than a regular feral.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Oh, that is a pretty sight. You know, they have the most beautiful coloring. I would love to see one in person. In that picture, their bodies look "chunkier" (an old southern word  ) than a regular feral.


You are right, Maggie. Woodpigeons are larger all round than ferals, and to me it often seems their heads are a little too small in relation to their bodies.

My mother always refers to those who visit her bird table as "those big fat pigeons".

They are quite heavy when they land on one's head, too 

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Lambswood*

Hi Cynthia,

Brilliant picture, it's great to see Lambswood, especially with some 'woodie' company! I noticed their colours aswell, they actually look quite different to each other. Is that due to Lamswood being younger perhaps?

It also looks as if he/she is sitting on his foot, has there been any improvement with it at all?

He doesn't have that scarey look in his eye any more, must be very happy to be there. Bless him.  

Thanks for the update as always

Janet


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Lambswood seems to have got the hang of being one of a small group of woodies amongst the pigeons. Our woodies seem to get along quite amicably, and Sherwood and her mate Dagwood don't seem to mind 'little Lambsie' sharing their perches. I would think they recognize her(?) as a juvenile. I think her breast feathers will probably assume a different tinge once she has full adult plumage, which takes a good while with woodies. She gets along pretty good, though she seems to be careful with her bad leg. She is so unobtrusive that this week while I've been there I've had to keep checking where she is. She is a dear little woodie indeed.

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Lambswood*

Thank you John, that conjured up a lovely picture of how she is pottering about. When she was here I felt I had to go and peek at regular intervals as I hated to see her by herself. She used to hear other ones in the trees cooing, and see them come down to feed in the garden and she would look so longingly out of the shed door where I'd put the cage she was in.

My daughter and I had a giggle today. We saw two 'woodies' sheltering from the rain, sitting on the fence under an oak tree at the bottom of the garden. They were gesturing in a most peculiar way to each other, it looked like the one wasn't doing very well with his chat-up line!! I find I spend far more time watching them now than I used to before.

It's amazing the impact of having Lambswood here, even for that short time has had, so thanks for news.

Janet


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