# Common pigeon foot injury?



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

I have seen a number of feral pigeons with a foot deformity- a foot clenched into a misshapen fist, or at times mishapen and deformed..
It is painful to stand on, so the pigeon usually stands on one leg..
Someone told me this is becuse the pigeons were kept by a fancier at one point, and a leg band was put on too tightly, and didnt stretch as the pigeon grew. This may account for the one legged feral piegons I have seen..
But i think many of these foot deformaities are actually birth defects- i have seen a good 2 dozen pigeons with a club foot.
Does this ailment have a name? What is the cause?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Most of the damaged feet that you see in feral pigeons are the result of string/thread/hair/fishing line damage. If you look closely you will see the grooves left by the thread or string in the deformed feet of the pigeons you see.

A pigeon will get its feet tangled in thread (or similar) and as it walks the thread will tighten (specially when it is wound around both feet), cutting the blood supply off from individual toes and sometimes from the whole foot.

Usually individual toes or the whole foot will eventually die and drop off and some pigeons survive this although a lot will die of toxemia and blood loss.

A lot of pigeons.com members look out for pigeons that have thread on their feet and remove it as soon as possible, to minimise the damage. See "Foot repair" album at this link.


http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51 

Cynthia


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> Most of the damaged feet that you see in feral pigeons are the result of string/thread/hair/fishing line damage. If you look closely you will see the grooves left by the thread or string in the deformed feet of the pigeons you see.
> 
> A pigeon will get its feet tangled in thread (or similar) and as it walks the thread will tighten (specially when it is wound around both feet), cutting the blood supply off from individual toes and sometimes from the whole foot.
> 
> ...




that image of Titch's foot was awful- I assume that foot was different than the one being worked on- Could Titch's foot be saved, or was it amputed?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi TitanicWreck,

As Cynthia pointed out, a great majority of foot injuries are do to the foot being
tangled with thread, hair, fishing line, etc. I did recently release such a bird
after removing the thread. I gave her Baytril during her stay as well as treating
topically w/an anti-biotic cream. One foot on the verge of loosing a toe, recovered almost fully, the other that had already become mangled, repaired 
to a point that it was usable w/out apparent tenderness. I was fortunate enuf
to have the resource info here and saw that a "seam ripper" was used to re-
move the foreign object(s). This works very well.

There is also a bacterial condition known as _Bumblefoot_ which can cause
the club foot you describe. I don't know that there is any remedy once this 
deformity has taken place. Maybe someone else has some more info on this
condition, as I've often wondered myself about it.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi all,


Yes...'thread-feet' or 'string feet'...usually it is the synthetic filiments which do the worst mischief, as Cotton will tend to rot or weaken in time to come apart on it's own. Or at least I have never seen any problems of a deep kind, with Cotton, but allways with the synthetic filliments.

My own successes with the sometimes tedious, usually delicate, allways patient removal of these threads, has been with some very fine 'Cutical Scizzors', fine needle-point Tweezers, and an acute angle end 'exacto' kinfe's blade in it's handle.

As someone ( Terry?) kindly pointed out to me a while ago, we do best not to set these Birds on their backs when we are involved in removing these threads from their feet.

My own method had in fact been to set them on their back, with or without a 'Burrito' wrap, but I tended to do so on something of an incline, in the crevice between my respective held-together knees and legs with my feet elevated, so, it was not flat or horizontal, but on a ramp of sorts, so their heads are highest. Otherwise, the contents or liquid in their Crops can come 'up' into their esophagus and cause them dangers of aspirating it.

It is very important to be very sensitive about the direction that any particular filiment has wound itself...whether it is over or under some other filliment's section...these are 'puzzle knots' usually, in their way, especially if the threads are already grown over. One does not do well to merely 'pull' on any of it, but, instead of course, to gently begin with what seems to be the most 'outside' section of thread, and then to cut it, to then gently investigate where and how the ends go from there. Often it will turn out one must go to some other little section and cut it to get to those threads which are for the moment, the most 'outside'.

Often, I make many cuts of the filliments and tweeze the then short pieces gently out..rather than trying to unwind too lengthly of individual segments.

Some of these can be deeply grown over with flesh, too, or merely grown over with skin.

One of my Wild Flock had this badly when Ifirst saw her, and I was able to grab her snugly and do the deed, but one foot was already dead and about to come off, while the other was overall pretty alright. This was in 1994 and she still comes to eat most days. She looks exactly the same as when I released her way back when. Which for one thing, suggests that the lifespan of at least some feral Pigeons is quite in excess of what the experts tend to say.

Phil
el ve


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## Lee (Jul 28, 2001)

*foot*

Lee here, 
There is also a condition called bumble foot it is actually a Staff infection in the ball of the foot in time it will cause the foot to become clubbed or just stiff 
it can be treated with amoxicillin and a full recovery is often seen if caugh early .. it is diagnosed by a limp and the noted swelling of the ball of the foot.....................


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lee said:


> Lee here,
> There is also a condition called bumble foot it is actually a Staff infection in the ball of the foot in time it will cause the foot to become clubbed or just stiff
> it can be treated with amoxicillin and a full recovery is often seen if caugh early .. it is diagnosed by a limp and the noted swelling of the ball of the foot.....................


Hi Lee,

I was wondering if once the foot has clubbed, is there is still a benefit to 
treating w/anti-biotics. Is the staff site-specific?

fp


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TitanicWreck said:


> that image of Titch's foot was awful- I assume that foot was different than the one being worked on- Could Titch's foot be saved, or was it amputed?


Titch had to lose that foot - too much danger of infection spreading or accidental knocks which could cause a fatal bleed, not to mention how painful it probably was.

She is now far better off, lives in the aviary, has her nest with her mate Mickey (who is a former PMV sufferer Cynthia also rescued). I like to give Titch a little preen round her head and neck when she is in her box, she is so soft and good-natured 

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The foot in the first three pictures belonged to a feral pigeon that I called Ravenclaw. I found him with both feet tied together with black thread, he was so weak and hungry he lay flat on the sidewalk to eat some seed and I had no trouble picking him up. His back toes were bent right under the foot and I think he would have been in danger of developing bumble foot, but amazingly they straightened out in time. I saw him after his release, looking pain free and confident.

Titch, whose foot appears in the fourth photo, was in the same location. Her foot was past saving and she started to bleed very heavily and not even as a result of any attempts to remove the thread . Fortunately Helen (Nooti) was at the other end of the phone and told me what to do.

The last pigeon with string damage that I found I called Smokey. I took him to the vet immediately and she decided to try to remove the thread under anesthesia. That was not possible so she decided to amputate and Smokey died of shock, or toxemia or the effects of the anesthetic (that is what the vet said). I wished that I had put Smokey through a course of antibiotics before risking surgery. I think that would have improved his chances of survival.

I have one pigeon who had to have both feet amputated at different times, the second one because the femoral artery severed after he had knocked his foot and it became infected. The vet that did those amputations did such a good job that Danny is as comfortable as if he had two undamaged feet and he controls a prime nesting site in my aviary.

Cynthia


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## Lee (Jul 28, 2001)

*site*



feralpigeon said:


> Hi Lee,
> 
> I was wondering if once the foot has clubbed, is there is still a benefit to
> treating w/anti-biotics. Is the staff site-specific?
> ...


Lee here, 
It is site specific and is usualy confined to the joints where the toes connect .. any antibiotic treatment should be completed as i am sure you know if there is still fluid running from or the swelling gets bigger and or smaller then i would treat with amoxi for a full 7-9 days then feed the bird some probiotic plain yogurt mixed in the water is good for maybe 3-4 days i mix 1/4 cup to a gallon of water...................


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lee said:


> Lee here,
> It is site specific and is usualy confined to the joints where the toes connect .. any antibiotic treatment should be completed as i am sure you know if there is still fluid running from or the swelling gets bigger and or smaller then i would treat with amoxi for a full 7-9 days then feed the bird some probiotic plain yogurt mixed in the water is good for maybe 3-4 days i mix 1/4 cup to a gallon of water...................


Hi Lee,

Thanks for all of your information on bumblefoot. I guess what I'm wondering
about here is more for the ferals I see. When the foot is already in a ball, is
there still further damage that can occur if untreated? And if so, what would 
that be? Once the foot is balled, should someone interested in helping, attempt to catch and treat the bird? Alot of times they seem to be doing 
fine w/the exception of their disability.

Thanks,

fp


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

I wonder if nest building could be the time when a pigeon's foot becomes entangled with string- they seem to gather whatever material they can to build a nest, I wouldn't be surprised if some of that material snagged around thier feet...
I wonder if any other animals experince bumblefoot?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TitanicWreck said:


> I wonder if any other animals experince bumblefoot?


Just about any kind of bird or animal can have bumblefoot. Domestic waterfowl seem to be particularly prone to it .. http://www.rims.net/bumble.htm

Terry


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## Lee (Jul 28, 2001)

*balled foot*



feralpigeon said:


> Hi Lee,
> 
> Thanks for all of your information on bumblefoot. I guess what I'm wondering
> about here is more for the ferals I see. When the foot is already in a ball, is
> ...


Lee here, 
after the foot has balled up i am not aware of any treatment as far as their longivity as long as they feed and can fly then they should do ok i have never heard of it spreading to other parts of the body .......Ferals are tough birds and they do well in the wild i love them i have some in my loft they get out on a daily basis and always trap back in i think it would take a large stick to run them off haha i love em !!!!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lee said:


> Lee here,
> after the foot has balled up i am not aware of any treatment as far as their longivity as long as they feed and can fly then they should do ok i have never heard of it spreading to other parts of the body .......Ferals are tough birds and they do well in the wild i love them i have some in my loft they get out on a daily basis and always trap back in i think it would take a large stick to run them off haha i love em !!!!



Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. Although sometimes, I must admit,
when they come up to you or as many do, land on hood of engine peering in
thru windshield the way they do, they seem to know how to "work it" the 
little devils! Gotta love 'em.

fp


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