# feeding feral pigeons



## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I've been feeding the feral pigeons by the beach for about 7 years or more. There is one jerks who deliberately sics his dogs on the pigeons and I've had words with him .I've watched the pigeons come and go and rescued a few injured ones in the past. (My beakless pigeon Craow Dum has been with me for two years now)
OK here is what I see as a potential problem so I need advice.
The population of pigeons had been the same for the 7 years-unless just recently.
I think these new pigeons have migrated from the northern beaches.
As a result, there are more pigeons and more noticeable bird poop. I enjoy the pigeons and I enjoy feeding them but I fear there will be backlash and shop owners etc.. could do something horrible to the pigeons. 
I should probably stop feeding them but at the same time, I fear they will starve especially since the winter is coming. I moved my feeding spot for them but they are roosting everywhere and creating more poop.
Thoughts?
I'm getting nervous of what could happen


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If there is a more bird friendly/appropriate area nearby (like a park) try to move your feeding area there. I agree that if the pigeon population gets too large and/or people start complaining about the poop, then things will not be good for the pigeons.

Terry


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. If i were you I would feed the same amount of food every time and not more. I wish every city had its own pigeon park where the bird could roost in peace. 
Do your beach pigeons get feather lice? Thanks.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

This a "park area". The problem is a larger population of pigeons that have moved down from the north (pigeon feeding had been banned on the northern state's beach this past summer)Therefore, these "new visitor pigeons" have created more noticeable poop. I feed the same amount of food as I did from day one (In 8 years). It's just one large can full of seed.
I am trying to lure the pigeons away from the park/pizza shop area for their seeds but they still roost above the store fronts.
I really think this is going to cause problems.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't think there is a solution, unless you feed them somewhere else, away from the stores. How you get them to go there, I don't know.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*feeding pigeons*

I don't know if I should just stop feeding them altogether
the sad part is when I feed them they are so hungry they chase me. They will even follow me down the street. One guy who works at the beach bar feeds them sometimes too.
BTW hamlet, yes they do have feather lice.They are loaded with feather lice, at least the youngsters that I have found.
During the summer one store front put sharp spikes on top of his roof to keep the pigeons off.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they are that hungry, I don't think they are getting much feed anywhere else. They could starve if you just stop.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

pirab buk said:


> I don't know if I should just stop feeding them altogether


Dont ever think of this! They will all starve to death!


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

pirab buk said:


> I've been feeding the feral pigeons by the beach for about 7 years or more. There is one jerks who deliberately sics his dogs on the pigeons and I've had words with him .I've watched the pigeons come and go and rescued a few injured ones in the past. (My beakless pigeon Craow Dum has been with me for two years now)
> OK here is what I see as a potential problem so I need advice.
> The population of pigeons had been the same for the 7 years-unless just recently.
> I think these new pigeons have migrated from the northern beaches.
> ...


your message reveals the followings:
1) you give foods for 10 pigeons, but the 11th and 12th and nth will come as from 11th onwards, they (the 11th to nth) know where has foods (stably). So no matter how much foods you gave, the result will be the same -- not enough and starvation occurs!

2) poop became more as a result of the 11th pigeon comes

3) your feeding becomes exposed, and draws others attention. 

Although I pointed out the above, I dont have solution. The one I can tell is putting the same amount of foods, and dont increase even thought you start noticing some of them hungry. (but I know it is not easy to implement for a pigeons lover) 

Also, 
1) If you can (have the right and facilities) clean the place, try to clean it periodically. 
2) Many feeders like feeding the birds very openly. I dont know why they will be so careless, but it should always refrain from doing this. All feeding activities should be done very secretly. Less people know; less risks, interventions and unncessary arguments! Feeders should accept the reality that common birds especially for pigeons are not respected by the majority of the society.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

pirab buk said:


> I don't know if I should just stop feeding them altogether
> the sad part is when I feed them they are so hungry they chase me. They will even follow me down the street.


As I told last post. Try putting the same amount of foods, dont increase. 

They recognized you after several times of feedings. They are hungry and will follow you. It is so poor for them... On one feeding, they not only chase me, but also bite my arm and foot. I guessed they were extremely hungry and became getting mad.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes, I still feed them and I only feed with with one large can of food. I feed them early morning.Like I said, I noticed more poop and i would clean the mess except for that would involve a using a ladder and going on private property (which is not an option)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

e


pirab buk said:


> Yes, I still feed them and I only feed with with one large can of food. I feed them early morning.Like I said, I noticed more poop and i would clean the mess except for that would involve a using a ladder and going on private property (which is not an option)


I think good intentions can be not so good in the long run. pigeons who depend on handouts don't fly to the fields to do what they natrually do which is forage, they get excercise doing this and stimulation, going from one spot for handouts to another can increase the population with regular food, then they get noticed and then someone calls a pigeon exterminator.

IMO the future flock members would be acting more like a wild pigeons if he had to fly to the fields to eat and in turn keep population in check because there is no seed being thrown at them and nature put off balance.

I would slowly reduce the feed and stop.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*feeding pigeons*

the sad part is I've been doing this for about 8 years. It is just recently more pigeons from up north came down to feed since there is a ban on feeding pigeons up north. The sad part is winter is coming so there will be no grass seed, pizza crusts or whatever pigeons eat naturally around


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well some of the new birds would be babies of the flock you feed. 
And I agree with you that there isn't much for them to forage out there. Not like many years ago when so much land was used for farmland. Those farms aren't around any more. And with snow covering the ground, they would be hard pressed to find seed. Completely stopping would cause many of them to starve.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes, some are babies from the 'regular' flock. i had brought two injured one to "jodi' for rehab. A few other ones I had found on the sidewalk in the summer but managed to place them back up back up in their nests. it was late summer/early fall were I noticed the "new ' pigeons. These ones must be from Hampton beach since they issued a 'no feeding the birds' ban.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> the sad part is I've been doing this for about 8 years. It is just recently more pigeons from up north came down to feed since there is a ban on feeding pigeons up north. The sad part is winter is coming so there will be no grass seed, pizza crusts or whatever pigeons eat naturally around


That is an emotional response and misses the point. how would you think any wild bird lives through? sometimes they don't it is natural.

quote: These pigeon friends feed regularly at the same time at the same places. The pigeons appear on time, so they do not have to waste any time waiting and searching for food. They can save their energy for rearing their young. Because of the continuous availability of food, regulation of the numbers of pigeons by seasonal fluctuation and shortage of food in winter is eliminated or insignificant. Additionally, the pigeons no longer need to undertake flights into the countryside, thus evading their hereditary enemies such as Falco peregrinus and Accipiter gentilis. Consequently artificial feeding by man allows the pigeons to withdraw partly from their natural regulation system. This implies all the consequences that occur when a species evades its natural selection pressure."

"In 1988 the “Pigeon Action of Basel“ was founded as an interdisciplinary project of the University of Basel, the government and the Society for the Protection of Animals of Basel. By means of large information campaigns we tried to influence pigeon enthusiasts to stop or to limit their feeding activities. Our intention was to reverse attitudes toward pigeon feeding, convincing the public, that feeding ultimately harms the pigeons and is counterproductive. We drastically demonstrated the negative effects of feeding e.g. by pamphlets and posters showing shocking pictures of baby pigeons infected by diseases and parasites. We tried to explain the complicated relationship between feeding and overcrowding and the density-dependent causes of the poor living conditions."


Iam very surprized that people who know pigeons think they can't fly far to feed/forage, these birds are born to fly, fast and far, and humans take that away from them by handouts.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

I really want to know that if no regular food to be given in city (in city not rural area), are the pigeons really able to forage foods?? everybody, please give me a right answer. I always see that pigeons are very hungary and chase the feeder if no foods had been given for serveral days. So I question, if they really have the ability to find food themselves? if yes, why they'd rather being hungry for several days and sit at the same place to wait for foods, but not go for foraging???

I still want to stop feeding, but I really worry they will starve. 



spirit wings said:


> e
> 
> I think good intentions can be not so good in the long run. pigeons who depend on handouts don't fly to the fields to do what they natrually do which is forage, they get excercise doing this and stimulation, going from one spot for handouts to another can increase the population with regular food, then they get noticed and then someone calls a pigeon exterminator.
> 
> ...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

hong kong pigeons said:


> I really want to know that if no regular food to be given in city (in city not rural area), are the pigeons really able to forage foods?? everybody, please give me a right answer. I always see that pigeons are very hungary and chase the feeder if no foods had been given for serveral days. So I question, if they really have the ability to find food themselves? if yes, why they'd rather being hungry for several days and sit at the same place to wait for foods, but not go for foraging???
> 
> I still want to stop feeding, but I really worry they will starve.


I can totally understand that. birds who starve are usually too sick to get around and are not fed by humans, allot of times they have little to eat in winter,which is normal, that is why they would not produce young in that time and have a more natural population. stopping cold turkey would be unfair, I would reduce it little by little in spring and be none by early summer when fields are plentyfull. we have taught pigeons to be bums in the city eating garbage. it's an easy ride. keeping streets clean of garbage can help too..organize a group to get discarded food off the streets, parks and walks, that would be postive.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

But how about the rural areas are distant from the city the pigeon roosting at least for 50 kilometers ? will they be to and fro to forage EVERYDAY? it is to me very questionable!



spirit wings said:


> I can totally understand that. birds who starve are usually too sick to get around and are not fed by humans, allot of times they have little to eat in winter,which is normal, that is why they would not produce young in that time and have a more natural population. stopping cold turkey would be unfair, I would reduce it little by little in spring and be none by early summer when fields are plentyfull. we have taught pigeons to be bums in the city eating garbage. it's an easy ride. keeping streets clean of garbage can help too..organize a group to get discarded food off the streets, parks and walks, that would be postive.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Hmmm... point (s) well taken. I should probably still give them food during the winter and then taper off beginning March.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know many think that feral pigeons will do just fine foraging for food, but that isn't always the case. In the colder climates where the snow is deep, there really isn't anything to forage from. The flocks that you see in the fall, will be much smaller by spring time. The hawks will get some for sure, but many will starve, as there is just no where for them to find food. Without enough food, they can't kept themselves warm, they end up getting weak, and succumbing to the cold harsh winter weather. Even many song birds cannot find enough food, and don't make it, and they have more alternatives. Many people set up feeders. And they can get seeds even out of pine cones in the trees. It is much harder for pigeons.


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## applecheeks (Nov 1, 2013)

Should I use this Borax treatment if the birds wing is injured? If not, is there another way? Also, can these feather lice be transmitted to people or other pets?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

applecheeks said:


> Should I use this Borax treatment if the birds wing is injured? If not, is there another way? Also, can these feather lice be transmitted to people or other pets?



I wouldn't. You can buy a lice and mite spray for caged birds at most pet shops.
Also, Sevin Garden Dust 5%, works well. You just use a cotton ball or powder puff to dust well under his wings and tail, his tummy and back. Just keep it away from his face. Doesn't take much. You can buy that at most hardware stores or garden stores.


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## applecheeks (Nov 1, 2013)

Ok, great. Thanks a lot Jay!


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I have the firehouse pigeons visit my back deck for food which I always keep the feeder full. As far as the beach pigeons are concerned, I will continue to feed them at the beach all through the winter like like I have for years.I will talk tot he owner of one particular pizza shop that the pigeons are making a mess of and hopefully, he will be friendly if I offer to clean the area up.(In other words, make sure if any babies are there they don't get thrown in a bucket) Right now the shop is closed for the season.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Any area/region/locality can support a particular population of any species of animals/birds/mammals. After a point,pirab buk,your region won't be able to support more pigeons because the resident pigeons will become territorial and chase the extras away.
Feeding them what they need to survive especially in winters doesn't hurt because usually pigeons don't breed in winters. Eggs turn out to be infertile as size of hen's ovaries and cock's testicles reduce considerably. And squabs die of excessive cold.
I actually wanna thank you big time that you've been feeding them for so many years.
In winters, I've seen many pigeons die bcuz of cold especially the young,weak and old birds. Also falcons breed from sept to feb,so its all the way easy for them to catch weakened prey. So feeding the pigeons what they need to survive is good deed for me.

When I studied in a day boarding institution there was a pair of pigeons that would nest/roost in the exhaust vent. I fed them daily.
The hen had one splayed leg. She was easily distinguishable in a flock. Amazingly I saw that hen 35 miles from there in field near my home. I was like agape. I couldn't believe I fed her already but she was greedily eating soil from field. I always gave them enough food but she came to eat clay and soil 35 miles from there.
When I went back to school I caught the pair at night and painted their wings to identify them when they visit the fields again and after a couple of weeks I saw them in fields again.
My point is that if we give food to them that is just enough for them to survive,that doesn't hurt them and they really don't forget to fly miles and forage. Its natural for them to travel distances,feeding them won't take their this ability away. Afterall the extra pigeons you now see on beach are travellers and will go back after winters are over. And one can never tell that the pigeon one is feeding is a residential one or has come from miles in search of feed.
The institution had 57 rooms with pigeons nesting/roosting in every room's exhaust vent. (Its a confession)(its crazy)Being a pigeon fanatic and crazy kid back then I caught and painted literally hundred city pigeons there in the institution and found them in fields even after they've been fed by me and others in nearby city park.

So my advice would be, feed all with what they need to survive (I mean without overfeeding).
I would definitely advise you to move your feeding spot so that it may not annoy those who hate pigeons and ofcourse their droppings. Pigeons will definitely spot that new spot in few days. You can keep few bowls/pots of water there so that pigeons avail water all the time(Even if people kill the present population of pigeons then more would come in from nearby areas to exploit vacant territories and resources,trust me)

Oh yeah,you can add ivermectin to water to keep the feral birds parasite free.
Your doing a valuable and great job,carry on man


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Leaving water for them isn't really possible now, as it will be solid in a very short time. And here, flying 35 miles to forage isn't a possibility. During our winters, everything is covered in a blanket of snow. There are no open fields for them to forage. And because of how bad the the hawks are here during the winter months, it's even more difficult. With many of the song birds gone for the winter, the hawks go after the pigeons more. Hard for them to come down for food without getting grabbed. I have a small flock that visits during the summer, but during winter, the hawks strikes are so bad, that they all but stop coming. They will come down for food only when desperate, and even then they often won't come down for fear of being grabbed. By the time spring rolls around, there are only a small number left. Not only from being predated on, but many starve, and without enough food, they cannot keep themselves warm. During the winter around here they need as much help as they can get.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

> brocky bieber
> 
> I was like agape. I couldn't believe I fed her already but she was greedily eating soil from field. I always gave them enough food but she came to eat clay and soil 35 miles from there.


I once watched a documentary from BBC introducing birds, in which a footage talking about the flocks of parrot will on purpose fly to somewhere to "eat clay" because the clay can be an antidote if they ate something unsuitable. But i dont know if pigeons are doing the same. 

Also, you think they are full enough, but it is your personal perception. We are not birds, so may not know what they really feel just from observing their reaction. The documentary also told that birds need to eat at different intervals to replenish the engery lost in flying.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

There are a few disgusting individuals (and I think I know who they are but I haven't actually caught them in the act, YET) They deliberately run the pigeons over. I sometimes find squished ones. That is why I moved their feeding area because of this. They are still trying to get used to their "new spot" away from the street or sidewalk. BTW this one person I suspect who does this will take his car almost into the beach to run them over. If I ever catch him, I will photograph his car license plate, a photo of him and then, report him to the local ASPCA. 
Sometimes during the summer I see punk teenagers doing this too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well they do eat soil, clay etc, to get minerals that they need. They also are picking up grit to help with digesting. Has nothing to do with being hungry.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

pirab buk said:


> There are a few disgusting individuals (and I think I know who they are but I haven't actually caught them in the act, YET) They deliberately run the pigeons over. I sometimes find squished ones. That is why I moved their feeding area because of this. They are still trying to get used to their "new spot" away from the street or sidewalk. BTW this one person I suspect who does this will take his car almost into the beach to run them over. If I ever catch him, I will photograph his car license plate, a photo of him and then, report him to the local ASPCA.
> Sometimes during the summer I see punk teenagers doing this too.


They can do this act to the lovely creatures that god creates for kind people!! These guys deserve to die!! They will go hell at the end of their lives!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

hong kong pigeons said:


> They can do this act to the lovely creatures that god creates for kind people!! These guys deserve to die!! *They will go hell at the end of their lives!*






Well if they do things like that, they are probably already living in their own hell already.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

i got a share from facebook, which a feeder should love!  










https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=617746424948799&type=1&theater


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I have this picture. Isn't it great? Love it.


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