# Guidelines/Rules for releasing race birds



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'd like to hear some different points of view on how your club/combine goes about deciding when to release birds, when not to release birds, when to ship a race or postpone a race. Also, how many of you have seen the birds brought back home due to bad weather after they've been taken to the release station? Who makes the call? One person (race secretary) or a committee?
PS: Someone else was SUPPOSED to start this thread, but they must have gone on vacation or something...........LOL


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Here our combine has a Home Liberator who makes all those decisions. But it seams like he makes the ones that favor him. He canceld a race one time because it was gonna be to much of a blow home. Now that one pissed me off because I have birds that do real good in those real fast races. My bird would have the IF speed record for 300-350 category if she woulda scanned when she first went over the pad. But I've seen 2 races in 10 years brought back due to the weather and it's all up to the Home Liberator. But it's odd for them to bring them back because here he cancels the race or moves the day if there's a chance of that happening. We had 2 of the 5 races cancled this year already because of the weather and another one was moved from Sunday to Saturday because Sunday was gonna be bad and we already missed 2 races.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Down here in Georgia with the Peachstate Combine it is a one man call. The liberator/race secretary makes the call, for better or worse. I am not sure if this is the right way to go or not. If you have the right person making the call it sure is a lot easier and efficient. One the other hand, if it is the wrong person, you are in for many, many lost birds.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I guess the good thing about these replies is, I'm not alone.......LOL
We also have one man calling the shots. Our combine can be as long as 175 miles, depending on the race station and the person calling the shots is on the short end, so bad weather predictions for afternoon doesn't effect those short guys so much.
We did have a rule that if there was a 60% chance of rain or more, anywhere along the course, the race would be postponed. That worked well for about 7 years, until someone decided to ignore the rule and ship the birds anyway. Well, little miss trouble maker here protested the race and had the results thrown out. The next year, that rule got voted out and now it's totally one persons decision.
I don't know what the answer is. There's been discussion on having a person in each section, short, middle and long, get together and make the call, but the long enders would most likely still get the raw end of the deal. Short guy says yes, middle guy says yes, long guy says no...........the birds are going down the road anyway. 
The AU has guidelines, but they are just that, guidelines.....not rules and no one pay any attention to them anyway. The IF has nothing.........so they're no help either.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

I am the liberator for the combine I fly with. I make the final desision of fly or stay home. Time to start race, and day. The truck driver is my eyes at the start. My computer is my eyes (and prediction) along course. I love my birds and fly for sport. So all (nice flying) conditions are race days. I am only favor for the birds safe return. I want them to come home. I have had 100% return for the last 2 races at my loft. I think that is great for only being in my 2nd OB season.  To cancel a race liberator,asistant liberator (I don't even have his phone number ) and combine president must agree to cancel. I am also website moderator http://lmcpigeon.wetpaint.com/


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Since we're in the same combine, there's not much for me to say 
I think that when making the decision on whether or not to race, the secretary needs to keep in mind how spread out we are. Should racing pigeons be able to handle obstacles? Yes. But is it fair for one end to not have any problems, while the other end's birds go through hell getting home? No.

Since we now stretch from SC to VA, I think there should be a committee as well as the race sec. One person from the north, central, and south. Those three talk it out, maybe take a vote, and the race sec. will report the final call. That way more than one person has a say in whether or not we should race.

Oh wait...I just noticed you already said that Renee, LOL. In that case, I say it's a good idea  I think it would make things at least a_ little_ more fair for the long end.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Earlier today I heard a warning on the radio about the weather. Said there was a horrible storm heading east through NC, whipping up 60 mph winds and dime sized hail. I can't remember what time I heard it, but I hope it was later on in the day to where it didn't bother anyones birds


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Earlier today I heard a warning on the radio about the weather. Said there was a horrible storm heading east through NC, *whipping up 60 mph* winds and dime sized hail. I can't remember what time I heard it, but I hope it was later on in the day to where it didn't bother anyones birds


I can tell you it was that bad . I was driving back from the tournament when I ran in to it. That was in greensboro about 5:00 this evening.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

We have had two races suspended this year for weather reasons. The first race snow and the second rain. Both races were flown later to great results. Our officers make a community decision. Both time the birds were released close to home for trainning tosses later in the day. You need more than one person making the decision.

Randy


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

fastpitch dad said:


> I can tell you it was that bad . I was driving back from the tournament when I ran in to it. That was in greensboro about 5:00 this evening.


Yikes. We had a thunderstorm here about that time that lasted about 10 minutes or less. Poured really bad and the wind had the rain coming at an angle. Then out came the sun. I'm glad it wasn't any worse than that for us


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Because weather changes all the time it can be complicated. You can read this guidelines: http://www.stevenvanbreemen.nl/en/?Release_Manual

http://www.stevenvanbreemen.nl/en/?Release_Manual:15._To_release_or_not_to_release

It is obviously a guide and it is up to the person in charge of making decision to adhere to some agreed upon rules.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I would think there are AU guidelines also. That is what I would follow. If they read that it is a one man show, then I would write the AU.

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Have the idiot read AU guidelines below. I do not think this is law and only suggestions. I may research the IF because, if I am not mistaken you fly IF sanctioned races. 

http://www.pigeon.org/releaseracetransportation.htm


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/if_by_laws.pdf

Sounds like the race secretary and the liberator hold the power here. They need a bit of checks and balances. here. 

The responsibility for the liberation and safety of the pigeons rests with the club's
secretary/liberator. He or she must check current and projected weather forecasts
using the best means possible and communicate with the race liberator prior to each
liberation. The secretary must also ensure that food and water are available for the
liberator at each race.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

I am one of 3 on the weather comittee in our combine. I am in the north, we have a south and a middle guy as well. Our decision to put up the bird is based on a majority vote. I lost out on the "NO" vote this week with gusting wind of 45-50 miles an hour. We ended up having a good race but it could very well have been the other way. This is a thankless job and you are damned if you do and damned if you dont. 
The weather committee should consist of 3 individuals and not just one. At no point should anyone be on the weather committee unless the have birds in the race to lose. Remember you cant rely on the truck driver's "report" as they just want to get the birds up so they can get home. Common sense and putting the birds interests first over any advantage one may have or not will ensure the safety of the birds and a higher rate of return.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

whitesnmore said:


> I am one of 3 on the weather comittee in our combine. I am in the north, we have a south and a middle guy as well. Our decision to put up the bird is based on a majority vote. I lost out on the "NO" vote this week with gusting wind of 45-50 miles an hour. *We ended up having a good race but it could very well have been the other way. * This is a thankless job and you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.
> The weather committee should consist of 3 individuals and not just one. At no point should anyone be on the weather committee unless the have birds in the race to lose. Remember you cant rely on the truck driver's "report" as they just want to get the birds up so they can get home. *Common sense and putting the birds interests first over any advantage one may have or not will ensure the safety of the birds and a higher rate of return. *



That's the thing. SO far.......we've been fairly lucky this year. What was predicted and what happened were two different things, but LUCK is all it was. What happens that one time when the luck runs out? Weather people, whether right or wrong, get paid to do a job and IMO, we should listen to them. The "what if" factor would have kept me from releasing the birds had I been the one in charge. 

THAT says it ALL!!!
IF everyone would go by THAT rule, then it wouldn't matter WHO was in charge of releasing the birds.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Have the idiot read AU guidelines below. I do not think this is law and only suggestions. I may research the IF because, if I am not mistaken you fly IF sanctioned races.
> 
> http://www.pigeon.org/releaseracetransportation.htm


We have both IF and AU clubs in our combine. However, two years ago, the combine members voted to fly by the AU race rules. However, like you said and like I said earlier, the AU race GUIDELINES are just that. They are not RULES, so they can't really be enforced. 
And with us having such a vague rule in our race rules to go by...........we're screwed pretty much.
Will be interesting to see in the YB series how things go. The tables will be turned for a change. The one in charge of releasing the birds will be on the long end..........THEIR birds will be the one arriving home 4 or 5 or 6 hours after release when the storms are predicted to hit, whereas our birds will be home within an hour or two after release. 
The bad thing is, you can't wish for a bad race just to prove a point, because it's our birds that will suffer, not us......and I'd never wish that on the birds. Mine or anyone elses.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

A_Smith said:


> I am the liberator for the combine I fly with. I make the final desision of fly or stay home. Time to start race, and day. The truck driver is my eyes at the start. My computer is my eyes (and prediction) along course. I love my birds and fly for sport. So all (nice flying) conditions are race days. I am only favor for the birds safe return. I want them to come home. I have had 100% return for the last 2 races at my loft. I think that is great for only being in my 2nd OB season.  To cancel a race liberator,asistant liberator (I don't even have his phone number ) and combine president must agree to cancel. I am also website moderator http://lmcpigeon.wetpaint.com/


Wanna move to VA and be our race secretary?? LOL


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Earlier today I heard a warning on the radio about the weather. Said there was a horrible storm heading east through NC, whipping up 60 mph winds and dime sized hail. I can't remember what time I heard it, but I hope it was later on in the day to where it didn't bother anyones birds


yea, I was watching the radar all day. Even though I didn't have birds in the race, I still worry about the ones that ARE flying........IMO, you can't NOT ship a race because there are storms predicted, but it depends on WHEN those storms are predicted to fire up. 
In the past two weeks, predictions were "mainly after 2:00 PM".......well, what time do they think the long enders, flying 500 plus miles are going to start getting birds? DUH!!
It was the same thing yesterday.


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## cutter (Feb 12, 2009)

I was the liberator ( as we call it here in Australia who goes away with the birds on the truck ) for8 years and still hold the record for most birds released at one time 17500. After years of complaining by the members of the federation I was asked to write a liberation protocol, I did this and it is now used with great sucess here, It covers everything that can happen on a weekend, weather it be feeding to waeather to care for the birds and feeding we have a committee of 3 who work with the liberator watching the radar and the birds can be held from as little as 1 min before liberation time the most important thing to remember are.

1 light = there must be a shadow cast on the ground at both the race point and at home , 

2 no rain ,snow or fog = between race point and home or 50km either side of the straight line between 

3 wind = not to exceed 40 km per hour on the tail, 30km on the head, not to exceed 20km across when flying on the coast routs 

4 Visablity = must be at least 5 km 

should any of the above apply birds will be held


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Wanna move to VA and be our race secretary?? LOL



 I looked at houses there in the past. It is beautyfull there. BUT there was no job openings at the time. 
Our combine liberates in. Lynchburg 300 miles, Arcadia 300 miles, Chilhowie 400 miles , Sperryville 200 miles, New Market 200 miles, All these places are in VA. I probaly know your weather forcast as well as you do. LOL


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

A_Smith said:


> I looked at houses there in the past. It is beautyfull there. BUT there was no job openings at the time.
> Our combine liberates in. Lynchburg 300 miles, Arcadia 300 miles, Chilhowie 400 miles , Sperryville 200 miles, New Market 200 miles, All these places are in VA. I probaly know your weather forcast as well as you do. LOL


 I have no idea where any of those places are in VA but it doesn't sound good when all our release points for the next two seasons will be from up there.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

If it is any consolation for you guys in the Carolinas and Virginia, our club here in Atlanta only had 7 day birds from 400 miles and the combine only had 20. Rough day for sure. Probably shouldn't have been released. I guess hind sight is 20-20 huh?!

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> If it is any consolation for you guys in the Carolinas and Virginia, our club here in Atlanta only had 7 day birds from 400 miles and the combine only had 20. Rough day for sure. Probably shouldn't have been released. I guess hind sight is 20-20 huh?!
> 
> Dan


So, WAS hindsight 20/20? It appears that your combine shipped again this week end to the 500?
So did ours, and I'm still can't believe that they will/can put birds up in the predicted weather tomorrow and Sunday. 
Of course I kept my birds at home, but it's just amazing to me what some people will put their birds through for a damn piece of paper.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I have no idea where any of those places are in VA but it doesn't sound good when all our release points for the next two seasons will be from up there.


Well, I just checked a map and some of these releases can, and probably will interfere with our releases. 
They've got two race stations that are further south than our race stations. A lot will depend on the schedules. 
Wonder if A_Smith has a YB race schedule for this year?


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## cutter (Feb 12, 2009)

Our birds here in (Sydney Australian ) were held over today due to high wind


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> So, WAS hindsight 20/20? It appears that your combine shipped again this week end to the 500?
> So did ours, and I'm still can't believe that they will/can put birds up in the predicted weather tomorrow and Sunday.
> Of course I kept my birds at home, but it's just amazing to me what some people will put their birds through for a damn piece of paper.


Maybe this is somewhat of a consolation. The 200 and 500 mile birds for our race this weekend are being held over. They are saying that the 200 mile birds may go up on Sunday but they are planning on a Monday release for both races. Of course the downside to this is that these birds will have sat in a shipping crate for four full days before they are released. Of course they will be fed and watered while they wait, but still...

I think the guys that chose not to ship this weekend are pretty happy with that choice right now.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Maybe this is somewhat of a consolation. The 200 and 500 mile birds for our race this weekend are being held over. They are saying that the 200 mile birds may go up on Sunday but they are planning on a Monday release for both races. Of course the downside to this is that these birds will have sat in a shipping crate for four full days before they are released. Of course they will be fed and watered while they wait, but still...
> 
> I think the guys that chose not to ship this weekend are pretty happy with that choice right now.
> 
> Dan


Yea, I called your "release line" this morning and was VERY happy and IMPRESSED that they made the right call FOR THE BIRDS....OUR birds (well, not MINE) however, were released..........I think that if we had a driver that could stay over until Monday there MIGHT have been a VERY slight chance that we could have done the same thing, but he has a job and can't stay until Monday, which in MY mind is all the more reason that they shouldn't even have been shipped in the first place.
I hear ya about the birds sitting in the crates for 4 days. That's not good. Hopefully, they aren't crammed into the crates and will be ok. It's the lesser of the two evils though.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

We went down to Monroe today and it was raining on the way back. Mom said it rained pretty hard while we were gone. It's finally sunny here now. I hope everyone's birds don't find those storms that are supposed to be in here this afternoon.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> Down here in Georgia with the Peachstate Combine it is a one man call. The liberator/race secretary makes the call, for better or worse. I am not sure if this is the right way to go or not. If you have the right person making the call it sure is a lot easier and efficient. One the other hand, if it is the wrong person, you are in for many, many lost birds.
> 
> Dan


Everything will be fine, until a major smash occurs....and then that is when the stuff will hit the fan !!  Could be the next race, or years from now. Our combine went the committe route. This way, there is more blame to spread around. There will always be situations where 20/20 hindsite will come into play. Our committe has a representative from short, middle and long. That was done because on the longer races, if you are on the long end, you may not be too happy about an 11:00 AM release. You never will make everybody happy all of the time. But, this arrangment seems to have worked so far. If there is a "perfect" system, I don't know about it. 

In the one example, where birds were held for four days and then released....I would not be real happy about that. I would have preferred the birds were driven back home or released at some shorter distance on the way back.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Everything will be fine, until a major smash occurs....and then that is when the stuff will hit the fan !!  Could be the next race, or years from now. Our combine went the committe route. This way, there is more blame to spread around. There will always be situations where 20/20 hindsite will come into play. Our committe has a representative from short, middle and long. That was done because on the longer races, if you are on the long end, you may not be too happy about an 11:00 AM release. You never will make everybody happy all of the time. But, this arrangment seems to have worked so far. If there is a "perfect" system, I don't know about it.
> 
> In the one example, where birds were held for four days and then released....I would not be real happy about that. I would have preferred the birds were driven back home or released at some shorter distance on the way back.


Yea, you're right about not being able to please everyone. However, IMO, there needs to be a specific set of RULES, NOT GUIDELINES, that the liberator MUST go by.
We had a specific rule for years that said if there was a 60% or greater chance of rain, the birds would not be released. That was voted out a year ago.........I think I may have said something about this in an earlier post.....now the rule simply states that the Race Secretary is in charge of releasing birds and that's that. Period. End of story. The last race this past week end had a forecast of 60% to 80% of rain the whole course. We have flyers flying over 600 miles. The birds went up and it did nothing but rain in GA, SC, NC and VA all day on SAT and SUN. An email was sent out yesterday afternoon that the race is being carried over to today, the 3rd day, because there's not enough birds to even fill the prizes I guess. We fly PIGEONS!!!! NOT DUCKS!!!!...............
As far as holding the birds for 4 days.......I wouldn't have been HAPPY about it either, but watching the weather, the only other choice they would have had was to bring the birds back. There was NO WHERE that it wasn't raining between where these birds are and Atlanta. The one consolation is, that the birds being released today (if that's what happened) have a pretty hefty tail wind so they shouldn't have to work near as hard to get home. I sure hope thier race goes better than ours did.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Yea, you're right about not being able to please everyone. However, IMO, there needs to be a specific set of RULES, NOT GUIDELINES, that the liberator MUST go by.
> We had a specific rule for years that said if there was a 60% or greater chance of rain, the birds would not be released. That was voted out a year ago.........I think I may have said something about this in an earlier post.....now the rule simply states that the Race Secretary is in charge of releasing birds and that's that. Period. End of story. The last race this past week end had a forecast of 60% to 80% of rain the whole course. We have flyers flying over 600 miles. The birds went up and it did nothing but rain in GA, SC, NC and VA all day on SAT and SUN. An email was sent out yesterday afternoon that the race is being carried over to today, the 3rd day, because there's not enough birds to even fill the prizes I guess. We fly PIGEONS!!!! NOT DUCKS!!!!...............
> As far as holding the birds for 4 days.......I wouldn't have been HAPPY about it either, but watching the weather, the only other choice they would have had was to bring the birds back. There was NO WHERE that it wasn't raining between where these birds are and Atlanta. The one consolation is, that the birds being released today (if that's what happened) have a pretty hefty tail wind so they shouldn't have to work near as hard to get home. I sure hope thier race goes better than ours did.


 I hear stories like this all the time, and people get all up in arms. But, then like in your case, they vote out any hard and fast rules, but then they complain when birds are released into rain....duh....nobody seems to be in favor of "common sense" rules....but they want to complain...go figure  I never have been able to make any sense out of such things...but in the past I was told it was because I was "Too New"...I guess one needs forty years of this kind of nonsense...and then a light bulb goes off...and you are able to say...yeah...this makes sense !  Do the same thing...over and over again and expecting different results, is what Einstine called INSANITY !!! Maybe after forty plus years, the old guys go insane, and then it makes sense ?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lovebirds said:


> An email was sent out yesterday afternoon that the race is being carried over to today, the 3rd day, because there's not enough birds to even fill the prizes I guess. We fly PIGEONS!!!! NOT DUCKS!!!!...............


Just got another email.....NOW the race is being held for the FOURTH day............because (and I quote).."I don't know who has birds and who doesn't have birds".............did yall know we don't have telephones in VA and NC?????


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Well, I don't know how they have come in but I do know that both our 200 and 500 mile races went up this morning. It will be interesting to see how they come in after 4 days in the crates. Better than four days fighting the weather that has been stretched all along the race course though.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Well, I don't know how they have come in but I do know that both our 200 and 500 mile races went up this morning. It will be interesting to see how they come in after 4 days in the crates. *Better than four days fighting the weather that has been stretched all along the race course though.*
> Dan



*Ain't THAT the truth. *

I think your birds will do ok. They've got a good tail wind AND it's not hot today....not up here anyway. Puffy clouds in the sky. A perfect day for a race I would think. Let us know how it goes.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Just got another email.....NOW the race is being held for the FOURTH day............because (and I quote).."I don't know who has birds and who doesn't have birds".............did yall know we don't have telephones in VA and NC?????


Duh....ya mean that thar thing with a cord on it ?! Golly....never thought of using dat thar confounded communication device !......

Mercy sakes....Who were the brain dead who voted this guy in ?!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Duh....ya mean that thar thing with a cord on it ?! Golly....never thought of using dat thar confounded communication device !......
> 
> Mercy sakes....Who were the brain dead who voted this guy in ?!


LOL........


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Sigh....I don't get this -_-
4 Days for a race? People have birds. So why not end it now and get it over with. They ship a bad race and then they complain about not getting their birds back within two or three days. Maybe if they wouldn't have shipped...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sigh....I don't get this -_-
> 4 Days for a race? People have birds. So why not end it now and get it over with. They ship a bad race and then they complain about not getting their birds back within two or three days. Maybe if they wouldn't have shipped...


Come on Becky !

You are trying to use common sense....when apparently, based on the facts presented, it is in very short supply at this particular combine !!..........no way you, or any of us are going to "get it"....we must be "Too New"...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Haha! I guess so  


Hmm...Maybe part of it was that people wanted to get it over with, so they wanted to ship, even if the weather was horrible. Which isn't right, IMO


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sigh....I don't get this -_-
> 4 Days for a race? People have birds. So why not end it now and get it over with. They ship a bad race and then they complain about not getting their birds back within two or three days. Maybe if they wouldn't have shipped...


AU rules state that no race can be called until "all prizes have been awarded". This means that , under UPR standards, at least 20% of the birds must be clocked since all birds in the top 20% score on the team standings. Don't know if this is the reason but the secretary's hands may be tied on this one.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> AU rules state that no race can be called until "all prizes have been awarded". This means that , under UPR standards, at least 20% of the birds must be clocked since all birds in the top 20% score on the team standings. Don't know if this is the reason but the secretary's hands may be tied on this one.
> 
> Dan


How long do you let it go before you call it? Just in our club, there were 66 birds shipped. As of about an hour ago, there were 3 birds home......that's a LONG way from 20%. 
We're talking about birds that were flying well over 500 miles.........more like 550 to 600.........and to top it all off, they had a head wind of about 20 MPH to fight today...kinda rough when they've already been gone since Thursday AND to top THAT off, I also found out that the birds were fed BARLEY and CORN............are you kiddin' me?? What kind of crap is that to feed race birds before a long race? My birds would have to be MIGHTY hungry to touch the barley and NONE of the birds should be THAT hungry with the distances they were being asked to fly. And, although the weather has cooled off a bit now, when the birds were shipped and released, it was pretty warm and muggy. Corn wouldn't have been the first thing they picked out of the feed in front of them. This is sad, just sad. It's almost criminal.........



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Come on Becky !
> 
> You are trying to use *common sense*....when apparently, based on the facts presented, *it is in very short supply at this particular combine !!*..........no way you, or any of us are going to "get it"....we must be "Too New"...



Warren, you really have no idea...............


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well my Birds did good in Rough weather, It would be a coin toss WHICH was Better, 4 days exposed to all the other Birds problems or Flying in Rough weather.... The Truck should have turned around if they could no be released the Second day. What a Crappy Liberator! Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LUCKYT said:


> Well my Birds did good in Rough weather, It would be a coin toss WHICH was Better, 4 days exposed to all the other Birds problems or Flying in Rough weather.... The Truck should have turned around if they could no be released the Second day. What a Crappy Liberator! Dave


I think we are talking about holding a race open....and not time as a hold over....please correct me if I am wrong.

Dan may have a point, for all practically purposes, a race could be held open for how long ? What may be missing in AU "guidelines", is *what if....*we need a whole week..?? ??...or a Month !!  If it is a smash, at what point do you just lick your wounds and call it a race ? Our 2004 330 mile YB race was called after four days. Estimated 1,000 of some 1,200+ were lost. A good 1/3+ of the combine was a "No Report".


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think we are talking about holding a race open....and not time as a hold over....please correct me if I am wrong.


You are correct. 



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Dan may have a point, for all practically purposes, a race could be held open for how long ? What may be missing in AU "guidelines", is *what if....*we need a whole week..?? ??...or a Month !!  If it is a smash, at what point do you just lick your wounds and call it a race ? Our 2004 330 mile YB race was called after four days. Estimated 1,000 of some 1,200+ were lost. A good 1/3+ of the combine was a "No Report".


The thing is, sometimes, stuff happens. Why? I don't know. BUT, you MUST give the birds a chance. Releasing them to fly 500 to 600 miles through 5 states that are covered in rain and t-storms for 2 1/2 solid days is NOT even CLOSE to giving them a chance. And knowing this is predicted the day the birds are shipped and knowing it's STILL predicted 2 days later and releasing the birds anyway is just downright craziness. 
And holding a race open because you "don't know who's got birds and who don't" isn't even a good excuse.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

The shame of this LoveBirds....is some good birds will be lost for no good reason. Was not a fair situation for the birds. Any birds returning now, I would guess would be shot for the season. After such a poor release, I would think the Officers in charge would be bending over backwards to allow extra time for clocking at this point. Sorry to hear your birds got put through this. I would think the timing is right to put through some better "guidelines" or rules for the liberator. Maybe now is also the time to float the concept of a three person committee.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

I can see the adds on Ipigeon now. Nice Blue bar for sale. 3rd place combine winner at 500 miles. Just and only 500.00 dollars. Oh, yeah, the speed on this bird was 30.00 YPM but just ignore that. They should call the race already and let the flyers get ready for the next race. They should also be shot for allowing them to go up in that weather. I fully understand your frustration as that is what was happening last year in our combine and that is why I volunteered to be on the weather committee this year.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The shame of this LoveBirds....is some good birds will be lost for no good reason. Was not a fair situation for the birds. Any birds returning now, I would guess would be shot for the season. After such a poor release, I would think the Officers in charge would be bending over backwards to allow extra time for clocking at this point. Sorry to hear your birds got put through this. I would think the timing is right to put through some better "guidelines" or rules for the liberator. Maybe now is also the time to float the concept of a three person committee.


This was the last race of the season. All the MORE reason that it could have been postponed until this coming week end.
We'll see what the coming days and weeks bring.........


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, I just checked a map and some of these releases can, and probably will interfere with our releases.
> They've got two race stations that are further south than our race stations. A lot will depend on the schedules.
> Wonder if A_Smith has a YB race schedule for this year?




http://lmcpigeon.wetpaint.com/page/Race+Schedule+2009 see it here


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Just a quick update on the Georgia side of all of this. The races this weekend that they held over until Monday (4 days in the crates) went quite well. Coming from northern Virginia, both races had the winners clock in at over 1800 ypm. They had a stiff tailwind all the way home. I guess the lesson here is to always error on the side of caution. When in doubt, hold the birds.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Just a quick update on the Georgia side of all of this. The races this weekend that they held over until Monday (4 days in the crates) went quite well. Coming from northern Virginia, both races had the winners clock in at over 1800 ypm. They had a stiff tailwind all the way home. I guess the lesson here is to always error on the side of caution. When in doubt, hold the birds.
> 
> Dan


Good! I'm very glad to hear that they had a good race.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

A_Smith said:


> http://lmcpigeon.wetpaint.com/page/Race+Schedule+2009 see it here


Thank you!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> Just a quick update on the Georgia side of all of this. The races this weekend that they held over until Monday (4 days in the crates) went quite well. Coming from northern Virginia, both races had the winners clock in at over 1800 ypm. They had a stiff tailwind all the way home. I guess the lesson here is to always error on the side of caution. When in doubt, hold the birds.
> 
> Dan


That sounds like good news !!

I guess the lesson is, it is better to hold over for better weather, then dumping them out in rain. I wonder how those guys that fly widowhood, made out with the bird held for four days and a bit stressed ?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> That sounds like good news !!
> 
> I guess the lesson is, it is better to hold over for better weather, then dumping them out in rain. I wonder how those guys that fly widowhood, made out with the bird held for four days and a bit stressed ?


Well, if nothing else it should have been a passionate reuniting!

Dan


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

The only thing that will change anything in combine liberator's minds will be if there are no birds entered to fly. The fault if you want to call it that lies with the owner. In these days of instant 7 day frocasts from anywhere along the race course the owner has a responsiblity to check what is predicted for themselves. Example; Our combine had a race weekend where on Saturday the predictions were up to 70% rain along the first 100-150 miles of a 500 race course. Prediction for Sunday was good weather for the entire course. We crate on Thursday night for a Saturday morning release. Our club could not get a commitment from the combine secretary that if the condidtions for weather were still the same come race day that they would hold over ther race until Sunday. Our club decided not to fly with the combine and had a shorter race on Sunday hauled by our own club members. In e-mails before the combine race on Friday eveniing even though it was raining, they were contemplating getting the birds up if there was no actual rain at the release site on Saturday morning, keep in mind that the weather predictions for the rest of the race course and the release point had not changed. A decision was not made until 5:00 A.M. on Saturday morning when the liberator called to inform the Race Secretary that it was pouring down rain so then they decided to wait until Sunday. We maintian that if the weather along the course for the first day is predictated heavy rain and Sunday is predictated good flying weather along the entire course on Sunday, for the Combine to even consider risking people's birds that they have spent 3 and 4 years or more to develop a good flyer and to not automatically switch to Sunday which was predicted to be great was irresponsible. So we chose not to risk our birds, flew on Sunday ourselves and had a great race with nearly 100% returns. Incidentally the combine decided that Saturday morning, since it didn't look like they would get the race off early that they would fly on Sunday. Making the decision then was way too late for our club members to feel comfortable about this, especially since the previous year the first 400 mile combine race of the year ws predicted to have lousy weather both days, they released anyway and most of the clubs were lucky to get 10% returns. It is your responsibilty to make the decision to fly or not knowing the weather forcasts like we do now. Myself I don't treat my birds like indestructible machines that should be able to take anything. Those birds are raised to place their trust in you the handler, don't let them down, because you know that they will try to do their part-fly home.

Think of the birds first!

Ralph


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

pigeon_racer said:


> The only thing that will change anything in combine liberator's minds will be if there are no birds entered to fly. The fault if you want to call it that lies with the owner. In these days of instant 7 day frocasts from anywhere along the race course the owner has a responsiblity to check what is predicted for themselves. Example; Our combine had a race weekend where on Saturday the predictions were up to 70% rain along the first 100-150 miles of a 500 race course. Prediction for Sunday was good weather for the entire course. We crate on Thursday night for a Saturday morning release. Our club could not get a commitment from the combine secretary that if the condidtions for weather were still the same come race day that they would hold over ther race until Sunday. Our club decided not to fly with the combine and had a shorter race on Sunday hauled by our own club members. In e-mails before the combine race on Friday eveniing even though it was raining, they were contemplating getting the birds up if there was no actual rain at the release site on Saturday morning, keep in mind that the weather predictions for the rest of the race course and the release point had not changed. A decision was not made until 5:00 A.M. on Saturday morning when the liberator called to inform the Race Secretary that it was pouring down rain so then they decided to wait until Sunday. We maintian that if the weather along the course for the first day is predictated heavy rain and Sunday is predictated good flying weather along the entire course on Sunday, for the Combine to even consider risking people's birds that they have spent 3 and 4 years or more to develop a good flyer and to not automatically switch to Sunday which was predicted to be great was irresponsible. So we chose not to risk our birds, flew on Sunday ourselves and had a great race with nearly 100% returns. Incidentally the combine decided that Saturday morning, since it didn't look like they would get the race off early that they would fly on Sunday. Making the decision then was way too late for our club members to feel comfortable about this, especially since the previous year the first 400 mile combine race of the year ws predicted to have lousy weather both days, they released anyway and most of the clubs were lucky to get 10% returns. It is your responsibilty to make the decision to fly or not knowing the weather forcasts like we do now. Myself I don't treat my birds like indestructible machines that should be able to take anything. Those birds are raised to place their trust in you the handler, don't let them down, because you know that they will try to do their part-fly home.
> 
> Think of the birds first!
> 
> Ralph


AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!! You're preaching to the choir though on this one. I keep telling these people........your combine officers will only do what WE LET THEM DO...........and it don't do any good to sit at home and complain AFTER the fact........and it don't do any good to complain to each other and then forget about it until it happens again. 
I think I've made it clear, but just in case.......I DID NOT SHIP MY BIRDS.....I don't give a crap's behind about a piece of paper. Win, lose or draw......at the end of the day I want my birds in the loft. If I don't think that will happen, then they just stay at home.

We've got some people riled up about this now, so I think (I hope) that there's going to be some changes..........real soon.....cause if it don't, this ol' gal is gonna call it quits. I'm not paying my money to race and then have to keep my birds at home and not race because someone wants to put them up in every kind of weather except good weather...

And one last little tidbit.........we got the combine race results last night. Turns out that there were enough birds home by the end of the third day to call the race, BUT, ONE person, (who's in charge of calling the race) didn't have a bird at sunset the third day and that would have put him out of Average speed.........so..........the race ran for 4 days.........now, figure THAT one out..........


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

*Average Speed*

Renee,

I think this "Award" has caused more bad releases and losses of good birds due to those bad releases than any other thing that we could perpetrate on our birds. I decided this award was inhmane years ago and quit participating for it. Since then I've enjoyed my birds more and the good ones are still in my loft.

Ralph


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

Renee,

By the was I forgot to address the original subject. In our 9 club combine the decision is up to one person, the Combine Race Secretary.

Ralph


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