# canker or some other sickness



## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai everybody,

i am having a chick of 1 month age which i am hand feeding.
i have noticed from past two days that there is some yellow sticky paste like matter in its mouth i doubt it to be canker as there is no lesion or any kind of lump or any sign of weakness in the chick.since i live in india i can only get enroflaxin. my question is can i use enroflaxin or can i use some other medicine.

i am not very sure whether this is canker please help with suitable medication


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yellow and sticky = most likely canker.
Why do you think it is not canker?
You can start the enrofloxacin but you will have to find some Flagyl (metronidazole).


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Is it loose and semi liquid, like phlegm or mucous? If so, then I'd suspect some kind of respiratory problem. Any nasal discharge? Otherwise ...

Canker would be found kind of attached to the mouth lining, towards the back of the mouth. As Reti says, you'd need Flagyl in one of its forms.

Pox inside the beak/mouth is more of an outgrowth frlom the lining and likely to be towards front of mouth.

John


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Use diluted in water iodine and swab mouth and throat area twice a day to see if it clears. It is possible to be candida. Apple cider vinegar also helps.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

fungal-bacterial inf.
treat the bird asap.
before her mouth gets clogged with it


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You can get this... metronidazole in India. Enquire at the pharmacy. We can help you with the dosage once you get the pill.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

fluconazole if its 100 mg
1 tablet is crushed in 5 cc of water 
give 0.16 orally twice a day for 28 days. 
thats if u get 2 pills of 100 mg its 28 days, if u get one crush it put it in 5 cc, and give 0.16 twice a day for 14 days
but take the bird to the vet, they should have some baytril ask them to give her IV it works faster.
keep us posted and i hope fungus dissapeares


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai guys thanks for all the suggestions i can get enroflaxin here in india
but no idea of metronidazole can i use fishzole instead.
its very difficult to even find vet medicals here.
i doubt whether it is canker as there is yellow mucus like discharge inthe nose and also white / yellow material in the back in the line on back of the mouth.
seek your opinions.
i will post a photo tomorrow.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

but the chick is still being hand feed and its not having any signs of sickness but i am afraid i may loose it if it is canker and comes to light on a later stage


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai goga, 
What is IV here our vets dont give any medicine for pigeons its all left for us fanciers to things for the sake of the fancy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

trinity said:


> hai guys thanks for all the suggestions i can get enroflaxin here in india
> but no idea of metronidazole can i use fishzole instead.
> its very difficult to even find vet medicals here.
> i doubt whether it is canker as there is yellow mucus like discharge inthe nose and also white / yellow material in the back in the line on back of the mouth.
> ...


Fishzole is metronidazole.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Recognising Canker*

*It's critical that everyone that keeps Pigeons, understands canker. The yellow nodules in the throat and mouth are just one form*.
The following is an excerpt form and article by Colin Walker.


Depending on what stresses the birds are under, trichomonad levels will rise and fall. When high, they have a typical parasitic effect, weakening the bird, in the process creating a vulnerability to secondary infection (particularly respiratory infection) and compromising race performance. They also produce a toxin that makes the birds feel unwell. Birds with elevated trichomonad levels are said to have 'wet canker'. Signs of infection can be subtle and quite varied. Typical signs that would alert the fancier to its possible presence include:

1. 'Penguin' posture - Associated with proventricular (glandular stomach) and crop pain. Birds will lean back on their tails and gulp. Noticed particularly after eating and drinking.

2. 'Dry feather' - Due to lack of down feather drop and bloom production.

3. 'Leady' feel - Affected birds will not come into condition and feel heavy in the hand.

4. Wet dropping - Inflammation in the digestive tract creates a thirst, leading to elevated water intake and urine production. This produces a clear watery rim around the dropping.

5. Green droppings - Due to digestive tract irritation and in some birds decreased food intake.

6. Inflammation in the throat - Tonsillitis and increased clear to grey bubbly mucus.

7. Interference with crop function - Delayed crop emptying and sometimes vomiting.

8. Increased food consumption by team as a whole

9. Dry yellow canker - In birds of any age, this tells you that many other birds have elevated trichomonad levels, which have not yet passed the threshold for yellow material to form.

10. Indirect signs - Poor loft flying, poor tossing, respiratory problems that respond poorly to medication or quickly relapse, a dramatic improvement in the birds' general vigour in response to anticanker medication are all suggestive.

Definitive diagnosis, however, depends on microscopic examination of a crop flush. Microscopic changes that are suggestive of the problem also develop in the dropping,. These changes are associated with the stress of the disease and include elevated E. coli and yeast levels. These changes, however, do not occur in all birds.



Other sites of canker

As fanciers would be aware, most canker lesions are found in the bird's throat and are often associated with their tonsils here. However, canker can affect a variety of other sites. 

Navel canker

If pigeon milk is spilt into the nest bowl and this, in turn, contaminates a nestling's navel that has not fully healed, a canker nodule can develop on the navel. Treat the nestling with the correct dose of Spartrix daily (usually 1 - 4 days). Antiseptics (such as Betadine) can be applied to the navel daily until the area has dried. After several days, the nodule can be 'popped' like a scab and separated from underlying healthy tissue. The condition must be caught early for treatment to be successful and for the youngster to be of value racing. The condition is more likely to occur when nest conditions are poor, leading to delayed navel healing, and is therefore often associated with 'wet nests' and with inappropriate nesting material. The condition is also more likely to occur if the parents are shedding large numbers of trichomonads. A suggested course of treatment is:
• Treat youngster and both parents daily with Spartrix
• Dab navel daily with Betadine
• Clean nest
• Treat parents for 'wet nest' if appropriate (PVM Powder and Probac)
• Improve nest conditions

Sour crop

In pigeons with sour crop, at least 90% have an internal canker nodule located at the base of the crop or within the glandular stomach (proventriculus). As the nodule increases in size, it squashes the windpipe making breathing difficult and blocking the crop outlet. This interferes with crop emptying, leading to bacterial infection of the crop and secondary starvation and dehydration due to the crop contents not being able to pass into the bird's system. Usually by the time the bird is noticed to be unwell, the condition has passed the point where it will respond to treatment. Deaths often occur due to the nodule growing through the stomach wall, leading to stomach contents leaking into the chest. Alternatively, the nodule can damage the heart or large blood vessels within the chest, causing sudden and severe bleeding. Such birds are often found dead on the floor with blood coming from the mouth. It is always worth attempting to treat valuable birds and I suggest :
• Manually empty the crop
• Give electrolytes in water 
• Treat bird with 3 drops Baytril twice daily
• Treat bird with 1 tablet of Spartrix or a 1/4 Flagyl tablet or 0.5 ml Flagyl syrup once daily
• Separate unwell bird from loft mates 

Cloacal canker

The cloaca is the pigeon's bottom. Within its wall is a gland called the Bursa of Fabricius. This gland is an important part of the youngster's immune system. It shrivels up and disappears during puberty. If pigeon milk containing trichomonads contaminates the nest bowl, the trichomonads can cause a trichomonad nodule to develop in the cloaca. Affected birds are usually noticed to be a bit quiet or their growth is slightly retarded compared to others of their age. On examination of the cloaca, a firm lump can be felt in the skin above it. Sometimes these lumps do not become apparent until the postweaning period. Affected birds should be treated daily with either Spartrix or Flagyl, usually for 3 - 4 days, by which time the nodule has usually localized and can be expressed by gentle but firm pressure through the cloaca. 

Canker nodule in throat or crop

Older youngsters or mature stock birds with a reasonably strong natural immunity will often try and localize a canker infection, leading to nodule formation. If in the throat, these nodules can usually be seen or if in the crop wall can usually be felt as firm mobile lumps ranging in size from 0.5 cm to 4 cm in diameter. Affected birds are treated daily with Spartrix or Flagyl tablets. Once localized (usually 1 - 4 days), throat lesions can usually be teased free with a cotton bud or crop lesions pinched free into the crop. Occasionally, surgical removal is necessary. Premature attempts at removal usually result in excessive bleeding. 

Internal canker

Canker can infect internal sites associated with the digestive tract, notably the bile duct, which drains bile from the liver into the bowel. Birds with internal canker nodules usually display non-specific signs of illness, including weight loss, lethargy, reluctance to eat and green diarrhoea. The final diagnosis is often made at autopsy. In lofts with a canker problem, it is usually best to include a daily Spartrix or Flagyl tablet in the treatment regime of an unwell bird in case this is the problem. 

Sinus canker

Sometimes canker organisms can invade the sinuses through the slot in the roof of the mouth and form a canker nodule here. The birds present with a firm swelling across the forehead between the base of the cere and the eyes. Anticanker medication is given for 4 - 5 days to kill the active infection. After this, lancing the area by making an incision in the skin over the most prominent area of the nodule enables the canker nodule to be expressed. Once the nodule is removed, it is best to continue with anticanker medication for several days. Healing is usually uneventful. 

Other sites

It is important not to confuse infection in other parts of the body with canker. Trichomonads, partially because of their fragility, can only infect the digestive tract and associated structures. Pigeons are very restricted in their response to infection. Their white blood cells lack many of the enzymes (called lysosomes) that are normally found in mammals and therefore cannot produce pus. For this reason, no matter where the site of infection, the resultant reaction often looks like a canker infection. Bacterial (or other) infections of the skin, feet and eye, etc. for this reason are often confused with canker because of their appearance.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

thanks a lot charis, thats a lot of info there.
Now coming to the dosage i have got 10 tablets of metronidazole of 200 Mg how should i give it to the bird.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

hai friends this is the photo, you can all see that there is slight yellowish discharge from the nose.
Inside there will be a slight layer on back of the beak same yellow colour


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

trinity said:


> thanks a lot charis, thats a lot of info there.
> Now coming to the dosage i have got 10 tablets of metronidazole of 200 Mg how should i give it to the bird.


Do you have a way to weigh the bird?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

These are the instructions from our resource section.

I would dose on the lower side. 20mg

METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl, Torgyl, Stormogyl)

Dose *20*-50 mgs per kilo BID or 40-100mgs per kilo OID (Once daily)- 14 days. 

In very rare cases, liver damage can be caused by prolonged use over 14 days - but it is very rare and one must balance the risks.
If maintained for 14 days or more it is highly effective against a severe infection of trichomonas gallinae and in preventing an inside recurrence- (not reinfection from an outside source, ie another bird).
Used for anaerobic, (flushing deep wounds), and protozoal infections. Can be given concurrently with Amoxy and Trim Sulphas.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

IV- in the vein
works fast..
but since u cant get nobody to iv her, do what charis told u. u can disolve the pill in water, and give it to her
let me know how is the bird please.


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

Hai charis,
i donot have a device for that but approximately it should be some where 150 gms.
anyhow i have already started the medication as per Reti's advice.
i am giving 3.5 ml of the tablet mixed in 6 ml of water.
And i think there is a slight difference in just 10 hours of time.
the Cheesy matter in the nose and inside the back of beak has reduced. so i have given one more dosage today morning will check up in the night before feeding.
thanks a lot for all your support


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