# New loft ideas wanted



## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

As some of you know, I'm starting a 4H project here in Northern Michigan. While and before the kids are building their small lofts, I would like to build a loft which would have the necessary sections for young bird, old bird, breeders, hens, and cocks.

I know much has been written on this, and I've been reading the forum for a long time. Please excuse my asking to repeat some of this again.

I have room for a loft at least 8 x 12, very possibly more. Your opinions would be much valued. Money's no object, just keep the cost down!!!!


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Since I haven't received any feedback, I'll try to keep it simpler. 
What is the minimum size loft would I need to build to accommodate young birds, old birds, breeders, hens and cocks?

Possibly a maximum of 48 birds total.

Thanks. Mike


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## SRSeedBurners (Jul 22, 2015)

Somewhere here I saw a thread that said the minimum is 2sqft per bird which is what stuck in my head. So you're looking at a minimum of 96 sqft of floor space.

Hopefully someone will come along that actually knows since you seem to have a stalled thread!


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

SRSeedBurners said:


> Somewhere here I saw a thread that said the minimum is 2sqft per bird which is what stuck in my head. So you're looking at a minimum of 96 sqft of floor space.
> 
> Hopefully someone will come along that actually knows since you seem to have a stalled thread!


Thanks for the reply. My biggest question right now is how large each of the five sections (stalls!!) should be for a 8x12 or 6x12 loft?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

An 8X12 can accomodate 48 birds at 2 sq ft per bird. Even that is a bit crowded I think. The more crowding you have, the more fighting and stress which will in turn cause illness. 
Then if you are going to divide it into that many separate areas, that will give them less room. Also if they are not flown, then they need room even more so. A large aviary for them to go out into for fresh air and sunshine would be great. They can also bathe out there, then lay out in the sunshine to dry off.
Remember too, that when you put in a wall of nest boxes or more, you are taking away from the space amount.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> An 8X12 can accomodate 48 birds at 2 sq ft per bird. Even that is a bit crowded I think. The more crowding you have, the more fighting and stress which will in turn cause illness.
> Then if you are going to divide it into that many separate areas, that will give them less room. Also if they are not flown, then they need room even more so. A large aviary for them to go out into for fresh air and sunshine would be great. They can also bathe out there, then lay out in the sunshine to dry off.
> Remember too, that when you put in a wall of nest boxes or more, you are taking away from the space amount.


Jay Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely go with at least 8x12 and/or make sure I have less than 48 birds. Your reasoning about boxes, etc taking up bird square foot space is duly noted.
I'm working up a floor plan which will take me a few more days. It definitely will include at least two aviaries.
Mike


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds good. You can update us when you get a plan.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

There's lots of ways to approach this. Here's a thought....You build an 8x12 building, divide it into a 4x6 and a 4x4 section on one side. You build 9 nest boxes and put them on the 6' wall. You hurry and get this done so that you can move your 9 pairs of breeders into this section and raise your YB race team for this year. To begin with, you can use the 4x4 section to store feed etc. and an entrance to the building. When the breeding season is done, you put the hens in this section and leave the cocks with the nest boxes.
With nine pair, you could raise plenty of babies to fill up the other half with your YB race team....you could also divide this side into two sections as well so that you can divide these by sex next year as an OB team while your building another loft for next years YBs (see where I'm heading here). Have fun!!


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi Mike70,

Interesting thread. I am looking forward to your floor plans, sorry cannot really give any good advice, since I have smaller lofts in an urban setting (rooftop). There is always something to learn in the Forum  Good Luck


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

I agree with the 4x4 entrance room. I call it my safe room. I can leave the entrance door open when I am cleaning, feeding, etc. Nothing can get in or out by mistake.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Yes plywood sheets come in 4 foot sections so keeping the cutting down saves time.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

I don't mean to ignore the last four replies to my last post. I'm an old guy, 70, and, it takes a while for me to absorb the information. My whole purpose for getting involved with this after being away from it for 57 years is to start a racing pigeon program for 4H kids in my area. I am Petoskey, MI, 200 miles from the nearest RP club. 

My idea is to supply the kids with young birds, have them build small lofts, let them care for and train them, and near the end of August at the Emmet County Fair have them release their birds to return back to their lofts.

If they want to continue with the sport, they will build larger lofts. If not, I will take their birds in and possibly breed them for the next year's kids.

That being said, I with my limited computer skills, will try to post my VERY primarily sketch of the loft layout I'm think about. Of course ALL comments would be greatly valued and appreciated.
Thanks. Mike


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

I don't mean to ignore the last four replies to my last post. I'm an old guy, 70, and, it takes a while for me to absorb the information. My whole purpose for getting involved with this after being away from it for 57 years is to start a racing pigeon program for 4H kids in my area. I am Petoskey, MI, 200 miles from the nearest RP club. 

My idea is to supply the kids with young birds, have them build small lofts, let them care for and train them, and near the end of August at the Emmet County Fair have them release their birds to return back to their lofts.

If they want to continue with the sport, they will build larger lofts. If not, I will take their birds in and possibly breed them for the next year's kids.

That being said, I with my limited computer skills, will try to post my VERY primarily sketch of the loft layout I'm think about. Of course ALL comments would be greatly valued and appreciated.
Thanks. Mike


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Mike70 said:


> I don't mean to ignore the last four replies to my last post. I'm an old guy, 70, and, it takes a while for me to absorb the information. My whole purpose for getting involved with this after being away from it for 57 years is to start a racing pigeon program for 4H kids in my area. I am Petoskey, MI, 200 miles from the nearest RP club.
> 
> My idea is to supply the kids with young birds, have them build small lofts, let them care for and train them, and near the end of August at the Emmet County Fair have them release their birds to return back to their lofts.
> 
> ...


Sorry. Obviously I haven't figured out how to do this correctly.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Does practice make perfect?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Mike, I think the way you have planned it would work for what you want to do.
Would 5 different kids have one of those sections? That could work if each one had only 6 or 8 birds. No more. Later, if you did keep any and were to breed them for the next year, you could also use the walk in section.
You don't really need a safe room for when you walk in, even if birds were in that section. I attached pet screen on the inside of the loft, over the door where I walk in. I open the door, and as I close it, I push aside the pet screen. It works great for keeping the birds from flying out, as long as you close the door behind you before pushing the screen aside.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lookin at the picture again, maybe you could make one of the aviaries cover the whole #3 section? Just make one longer than the other, or make it one long aviary to cover all the sections.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Mike, I think the way you have planned it would work for what you want to do.
> Would 5 different kids have one of those sections? That could work if each one had only 6 or 8 birds. No more. Later, if you did keep any and were to breed them for the next year, you could also use the walk in section.
> You don't really need a safe room for when you walk in, even if birds were in that section. I attached pet screen on the inside of the loft, over the door where I walk in. I open the door, and as I close it, I push aside the pet screen. It works great for keeping the birds from flying out, as long as you close the door behind you before pushing the screen aside.


jay, Besides what I said I wanted to do with the 4H kids for this year and hopefully for the near future, I do want to have my own birds this year. I believe that AU has a requirement that to have a club, you need 5 members. My additional hope is to get enough interest with 4H families to start a club up here. Sooooo this is some additional information for you all.
Thanks all


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Mike, I think the way you have planned it would work for what you want to do.
> Would 5 different kids have one of those sections? That could work if each one had only 6 or 8 birds. No more. Later, if you did keep any and were to breed them for the next year, you could also use the walk in section.
> You don't really need a safe room for when you walk in, even if birds were in that section. I attached pet screen on the inside of the loft, over the door where I walk in. I open the door, and as I close it, I push aside the pet screen. It works great for keeping the birds from flying out, as long as you close the door behind you before pushing the screen aside.


jay3 I saw your pet screen as I was looking over the loft threads weeks ago and thought is was a great idea. Additionally, the five sections I thought would eventually be for my birds. One section each for breeders, cocks, hens, old birds, and young birds. Since I have really no experience with a loft this large, I really don't know if it will work as I envisioned. Mike


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Mike..I have a loft with an aisle down the middle dividing the loft in half, it's a good idea but no matter where it is, it subtracts from your useful loft area for birds. If you have five 30 inch wide sections, you're down to only having room for 7-8 birds per section. I think I'd just divide it into four equal sections. You'd have plenty of wall area to put up nest boxes for your breeders and a good spot for your own race team.....you can always divide these into smaller areas if you have a need, even temporarily. Running the aviary the length of the building is a good idea also and dividing it so two groups can use it at a time, and having your traps included.
You can have as many members in your club as you like but the requirement has been changed to needing three members, rather than five flying in a race in order to be reported as a recognized race.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Here's some stuff you may find useful.
http://www.pigeon.org/schoolprojects.htm


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

raftree3 said:


> Here's some stuff you may find useful.
> http://www.pigeon.org/schoolprojects.htm


Thanks for the resource. I've been in contact with Deone Roberts from AU. He has led me to many other good sources. So far so good. The project is coming along. If only I could clear away a few feet of snow to start building my loft. Mike


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

We're supposed to be getting 14+ inches tomorrow. I hate snooowwww!


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Woke up to snow, thanks for jinxing us!! Mike, I think your on the right track and hope it works out. It is a great thing for the sport/hobby that you are doing. Now if there was just a way to lower the start up cost for kids to get into it. Lumber is one thing, but we can only afford to buy so many clocks and such to lend out to starters. Good luck, Jim


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> We're supposed to be getting 14+ inches tomorrow. I hate snooowwww!


Jay ---- Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain. Or Snow?????


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Or maybe snow angels!!!!!


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

pigeonjim said:


> Woke up to snow, thanks for jinxing us!! Mike, I think your on the right track and hope it works out. It is a great thing for the sport/hobby that you are doing. Now if there was just a way to lower the start up cost for kids to get into it. Lumber is one thing, but we can only afford to buy so many clocks and such to lend out to starters. Good luck, Jim


Jim I've been finding some sources to donate some materials for the kid's loft building. A local welding shop has a lot of scrap expanded metal that could be used for flooring. Other people have come forward to donate also. I'm continually on the lookout for new ideas. 
As far as clocks, I have a lead on some old ones. But in the meantime, I hope the honor system will work with the kids. When their bird(s) come in, they will call me, and I will record the time. Then as part of the 4H program we will all get together and calculate the ypm.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Mike70 said:


> Jay ---- Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain. Or Snow?????


Hard to dance in snowshoes and a snow shovel in your hand!


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

Mike I am happy to help you out with the pigeons. Some loft ideas I am sending you a PDF of a starter loft for the kids.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_X...ew?usp=sharing 

I built this and my actual expense was $327.87. Be sure they raise it up on blocks. I have also attached a picture of my 14' racing loft. I used basement windows with screens. I took off the screens and put 1" x 1/2" wire mesh in the opening. Now in the winter I have the glass in and when it warms up I take it out.

Roger


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

> Mike I am happy to help you out with the pigeons. Some loft ideas I am sending you a PDF of a starter loft for the kids.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_X...ew?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


Roger
For some reason unknown to this computer challenged person, I couldn't get to the URL you posted. Google said: Sorry, this file does not exist.
I do see your racing loft. Great idea about the windows in our neck of the woods.


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

*loft ideas*

Mike send me an email and I will send it to you as an attachment you can download.

Roger
[email protected]


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think all lofts should have windows. They need the light and the air circulation.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi RogerD,

Nice loft. May I have a copy of the plan also? I am sending you an email from my gmail account.

Thanks in advance


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay and others
Yesterday I visited a loft near me in N. MI. The person is in his late eighties. has had racers for over 50 years, and hasn't raced in at least 10 years. He still has racers and fancy pigeons. The type of lofts he had were without solid windows, and you could walk thru from one section to another with a screened door in between each. He had two sections approx. 6 x 10 feet with some boxes and some box ledges for his homers. From these sections, the birds could easily move into the aviaries.

His lofts were sheltered from the wind but certainly not from the cold. All his birds in my novice opinion, looked extremely beautiful and healthy.

What are your thoughts on this "full of fresh air" but not drafty loft?

Thanks. Mike


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The air circulation, and fresh air is important. You just don't want drafts of cold air blowing in on them. More fresh air the better. It's healthier for both the birds and you.


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

*loft ideas*

Mike,
I also have my loft open in the inside and heavy wire screen sections with doors. I used the basement windows into the aviary which I can take out in the summer. Where we live and get many days below zero I like having the windows. I do have a pigeon door so they can go into the aviary and some very cold days they will be out there in the aviary. Currently we are experiencing some unusually warm weather 65 deg. yesterday. I do have vents at both the top and bottom of the loft on every side.
Roger


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

> I also have my loft open in the inside and heavy wire screen sections with doors. I used the basement windows into the aviary which I can take out in the summer. Where we live and get many days below zero I like having the windows. I do have a pigeon door so they can go into the aviary and some very cold days they will be out there in the aviary. Currently we are experiencing some unusually warm weather 65 deg. yesterday. I do have vents at both the top and bottom of the loft on every side.
> Roger



Roger, I went back to look at your loft that you pictured. As I'm learning more, I can't help thinking my personal loft should be modeled like yours. What is the overall size of the pictured loft, how many sections, and what are the purpose of each? 
BTW, our weather over the past few days has been way over normal, in the 40's. Mike-----and it looks like my 4H background check didn't see my "picture in the post office"


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Mike, I think the way you have planned it would work for what you want to do.
> Would 5 different kids have one of those sections? That could work if each one had only 6 or 8 birds. No more. Later, if you did keep any and were to breed them for the next year, you could also use the walk in section.
> You don't really need a safe room for when you walk in, even if birds were in that section. I attached pet screen on the inside of the loft, over the door where I walk in. I open the door, and as I close it, I push aside the pet screen. It works great for keeping the birds from flying out, as long as you close the door behind you before pushing the screen aside.


Jay, Each kid or two will build their own loft. It may be 2x3, 2x4,or 4x4 with aviary. The larger they make it, the more birds they get based on one bird for each two square foot. If after the county fair when their project is over, they might want to continue next year with the same loft or build a larger one. My loft will be for any birds they do not want to continue with, my breeding for the next year(s), and for my education.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds like a plan.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Could this starter loft design work with doubling the length and width (8x12)? I would be changing the physical roof but keeping the basic roof line profile. Also, I would use 2x6's for the base. http://americanracingpigeonunion.blogspot.com/search/label/starter loft

Thanks. 

Mike


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I use this for my YB team. It's just divided into two sections and works real well. The "Red Rose" plan and construction method would work great for each kids loft....simple and not expensive. If they're actually going to try and train and fly their birds, they really need something more than a four foot box, although I knew a kid when I was young that flew a few from a rabbit hutch.


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## minister man (Mar 13, 2012)

raftree3 said:


> I use this for my YB team. It's just divided into two sections and works real well. The "Red Rose" plan and construction method would work great for each kids loft....simple and not expensive. If they're actually going to try and train and fly their birds, they really need something more than a four foot box, although I knew a kid when I was young that flew a few from a rabbit hutch.


I know nothing about pigeons, but I like that your trap is inside the aviary. It seems like that would make it much eaiser to teach them to trap.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

*Pigeon Racing Story*

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Bentley <[email protected]>
To: mnetzky1 <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 20, 2017 10:33 am
Subject: pigeon racing story
Hi Mike,

Below is the link to our story about your new pigeon racing program.

Ryan Bentley
Petoskey News-Review

http://www.petoskeynews.com/feature...cle_c04f8a20-0d77-11e7-889e-9be40ec7801d.html


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very nice article. Thanks for posting it. You have the opportunity to make a difference for a lot of kids.


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## Qurious (Mar 21, 2017)

*Loft suppliers*

Hiya

Can anyone recommend a supplier of ready-made pigeon lofts?

what I can see from the forum is that most people build their own, is that a correct assumption?

Also, do you experience any ventilation problems and if you do, what can be done to solve those? Has anyone tried the mechanical, wind powered ventilators? 

Thank you in advance for all info, very much appreciated.

Kind Regards

M.


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Very nice article. Thanks for posting it. You have the opportunity to make a difference for a lot of kids.


Jay3, This is my hope. (Besides, maybe I can beat some of these kids racing.)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Mike70 said:


> Jay3, This is my hope. (Besides, maybe I can beat some of these kids racing.)


...................................


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Qurious said:


> Hiya
> 
> Can anyone recommend a supplier of ready-made pigeon lofts?
> 
> ...


http://eccosheds.co.uk/ There you go. Something to drool over. http://www.parkhallsheds.co.uk/catalogue.asp?id=6


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

I have a small fan on a thermostat in my loft and when the temps go above 70 deg it helps push some of the hot air out. Also windows and screened doors. In the winter they can all be closed but it is rare that I close anything up unless it is below 0 deg. The more air you can supply the better the birds do. The birds seem not to be bothered by the cold as much as the heat.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They can stand the cold, but shouldn't have cold wind or drafts blowing in on them. They do need good air circulation. It's better for your health also.


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## SRSeedBurners (Jul 22, 2015)

White Homers said:


> I have a small fan on a thermostat in my loft and when the temps go above 70 deg it helps push some of the hot air out.



Do you have a link to the thermostat? I need something like that for a barn mounted fans for our llamas and horse. We lost a llama to the Texas heat last year. Once a llama overheats there's almost nothing you can do to bring them back (at least that's what our assisting vet told us that tried to save him).


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

The one I have is similar to this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ventamat...Thermostat-with-Firestat-XXFIRESTAT/206561081 got mine from Home Depot


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

*4-H progress*

Today we had our 3rd meeting of The Flying Clovers racing pigeon club. We have five members, two girls and three boys ranging in age from 6-14 years old. They have almost finished building their own lofts.

Among other things, today, we had a guest speaker demonstrate handling birds. If all goes well, in two weeks I will pickup the promised young birds from a forum source about 225 miles away.

The most rewarding moment today came after I asked if we should close the meeting. The six year old said, "I'd like to stay longer." I asked why. He said, "because I want to learn more."

I'm attaching (I hope) some recent pictures of my loft's progress. It should be finished in a few more days.
Mike70


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looking great! You're getting there.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Sounds like the kids are getting the bug and your loft looks great! You might want to test your trap....the dowels in mine are 4 inches apart and that's nearly too wide. It's no wonder you haven't been on this site lately.....you've been busy!


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

raftree3 said:


> Sounds like the kids are getting the bug and your loft looks great! You might want to test your trap....the dowels in mine are 4 inches apart and that's nearly too wide. It's no wonder you haven't been on this site lately.....you've been busy!


I hope the traps will be okay. The dowels are no more than 4 inches apart, and each of the three sections has it own trap which is about 34 inches off the floor.
When the trap is raised out of the way (from the inside), they will have full access to the aviary 24/7, and the aviary will be fully closed. When out flying, the front 22 inches of the aviary will come down to form a landing board and the drop trap will be in position. If I would want to close up the trap openings, the hinged cut-out portion on the outside can be raised. And, yes I have been busy!!!! Mike70


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## Mike70 (Jan 25, 2017)

*Follow up on 4-H program*

We have had a very successful 4-H season so far. We have 4 lofts with 11 participants. Our big culmination was at the Emmet County Fair up here in N. Michigan. We released birds at least once a day for 5 days. Announcements were made often for the public to observe the birds. We also had 3 different locations throughout the fair for more information on our "Flying Clovers 4-H Racing Pigeon Club." One included handling the birds. 

Our sign up sheet for more information on our club yielded 17 kids from 13 locations. So far most have been contacted with a lot of excitement from the parents and kids.

I want to thank again, Roger D, from this forum who also lives in Michigan for supplying young birds for our initial startup last spring.


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