# Another Victim of Canker?



## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I just took in another feral who I noticed yesterday looking sluggish. Her beak looks disfigured and her tongue falling out. After putting cotton swab down her throat, there was red mucus on it, but I could barley see any white matter inside. What was the most pronounced was a very strong odor coming from her; not exactly, but a sort of vinegar like smell. I am assuming it's canker. Tomorrow I'm taking her to my regular rehabber. In the meantime, I have started her on the spartrix and want to know what any of you may think.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The odor sounds like canker. Spartrix has always worked great for me.
Is s/he eating and drinking?

Reti


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

She seems to be eating and drinking. I found some seeds inside her mouth. How much she is swallowing, I don't know. She is very thin so I fed her by the tube twice since yesterday, 15 cc each time. Her throat is open, but I am worried about her tongue which is hanging out to one side, and also there is large hardening at the base of her lower beak. At about 2 PM today I'm taking her to an expert rehabber to get some more spartrix and to see what she thinks.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ante, thanks for rescuing this little one. Hope everything goes well for her.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks. Please let us know what the rehabber thinks about the outcome.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi ante, 

Yes, sour is indicative of canker. If the tongue seems to be pushed to one side there may be a growth that is causing this. I'm glad that you found her and are
helping her, sounds like this bird needs the meds you started her on. Thanks for
helping and look forward to your update on your new rescue.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ante,

Poor little thing, I am so glad you rescued her. Some of the worst cases of canker are those that are not apparent in the mouth. Rehabbers tell me that there is a typical odour to canker, but I have only smelt it in a couple of birds and those were the ones with the slimiest mouths.

Be very careful when you tube feed, if the tubing needle is a hard one and the pigeon struggles it can dislodge a nodule and cause a terminal bleed. That happened to me a few years ago. So it is best to be extremely slow and gentle.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm hoping for the best, but things don't look good. Almost half of an inch of May's tongue has dried out and hangs outside of her beak to the side. There is a large, hard nodule at the base of her lower beak which I think has made her tongue paralyzed. May also has round worms and several other parasites. Rehabbers have told me to continue with spartrix and tube feed her, and although things don't look good, we will not know how much damage has happened until canker clears out. They think that giving her any extra medication for parasites on top of spartrix may be too much right now.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I agree, giving a dewormer right now might be too much for poor pigie.
I do hope and pray the canker did not do too much damage. Please keep us updated on the little one.

Reti


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Poor baby, I hope she will recover.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Me too.

Wonder if there is any way you can keep the tongue moistened to help it live? Maybe just dribbling a little water on it might help?


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> *I'm hoping for the best, but things don't look good. *


Don't give up. I have 2 pijes who had bad canker in the beak and the tongue looked bad. They are now named Jack and Darlington which are sheltered because their beaks are scissored but they pulled through.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi ante bozanich,

You might give her a bit of garlic oil from a capsule, or a whole capsule down the throat if she does not have canker lesions around the throat. That will help with the bird's immune system and recovery as well as chase those pesky parasites away!


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Me too.
> 
> Wonder if there is any way you can keep the tongue moistened to help it live? Maybe just dribbling a little water on it might help?


Thanks, I have been putting water on her tongue, and have just realized last night, after reading your post, that oil might be even better. So I've started using a little bit of all natural lysine+ lip ointment and sesame oil and this morning I am going to go get some vitamin E&A oil which might also help with the healing process.



KIPPY said:


> Don't give up. I have 2 pijes who had bad canker in the beak and the tongue looked bad. They are now named Jack and Darlington which are sheltered because their beaks are scissored but they pulled through.


That's great to know, and I'll never give up. BTW, what is exactly scissored beak?



Trees Gray said:


> Hi ante bozanich,
> 
> You might give her a bit of garlic oil from a capsule, or a whole capsule down the throat if she does not have canker lesions around the throat. That will help with the bird's immune system and recovery as well as chase those pesky parasites away!


That's a good idea. Do you mean a garlic oil capsule from a human vitamin shop? Would this be, maybe, too large of a dosage for a very thin pigeon?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

A scissored beak is when the tips are not aligned. The lower beak is oriented to one side and the upper the opposite.
I have a dove with this, also due to canker. She does alright but needs a deep dish to be able to pick up seeds and her feathers are a mess since she cannot preen, but otherwise doing great.

With the vitamin E and A you have to be careful as those vitamins are toxic in high amounts. You can apply them every few days.

The garlic oil capsules you can give whole if the bird can swallow them, if not open it and give a few drops.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

ante bozanich said:


> BTW, what is exactly scissored beak?



Ante, a beak is usually called scissored when the top and bottom beaks do not align - each of them usually going in a different direction. There are some pictures on this link: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/557307521dmqjCP

We have a little pigeon with scissored beak where the beak is actually crossed, even more than the one shown in the other link but she can eat and drink as well as the rest of the flock and periodically it straightens out somewhat only to go back to being scissored. I couldn't locate a good picture of her showing it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

ante bozanich said:


> That's a good idea. Do you mean a garlic oil capsule from a human vitamin shop? Would this be, maybe, too large of a dosage for a very thin pigeon?


Yes, a human grade capsule, you can put a few drops in the formula or on the seed.

http://store.thecatalog.com/1790.html


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I have some deodorized garlic capsules at home, but I don't think deodorized is good, so I got some Whole Fresh Bulb Liquid Extract from Herb Pharm, and have been putting few drops into her food. As for moisturizing her tongue, I think I am going to stay with the water and the sesame cooking oil.

I am worried about a lot of slimy mucus in her throat. She makes sounds as she breathes and I'm afraid the mucus might choke her. I have been trying to remove it with a cotton swab as much as I can. On a positive note, the smell has almost all gone, and I think the nodule on the bottom of her throat is getting smaller. I have given her 5 spartrix pills so far. I was told to pause for 2 days and then continue with the 5 more pills.

One more question I am concerned about is whether to keep her in a dark and a quiet place, such as my bedroom, during the day, or by the window, with the door of the cage looking outside where other birds are doing their thing?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Ante,

You may want to consider dissolving a small piece of the Spartrix in about 1cc of water and painting your birds mouth with this and allow some to dribble down the throat, I think it will help a great deal with the slimy mucus. I have a bird in that had a very bad case of canker and it helped a great deal applying some topically to clear up the slimy mucus in the throat/mouth area you are speaking of.

Also, it is always my inclination to have a convalescing bird not sit in a dark box/cage, or even in a place where they can not view the outside world for long if possible. I find myself it helps with their general spirit to see other birds, squirrels, the trees and life in general still going on to increase their will to live.

I hope this helps a bit,

Ron


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Tomorrow the month of May is over but May is still alive. It has been a struggle for both of us. I have been dedicating all my time and undivided attention to her or him. It's been 17 days now since I took her in. We went through 10 pills of Spartrix with 2 days of pause in between and 0.08 ml of Panacur for parasites for the following three days, while tube feeding 4X per day all along. I had also tried several times applying Spartrix directly, topically as Jazaroo has suggested in the post above. All the same, yesterday, when I took May back to the rehabber for a follow check up, canker was still there, and a large white lump embedded right in the breathing hole down May's throat was still there. 

Rehabber suggested trying a different medication so she gave me three pills of Trichocure (ronidozol) by Oropharma, and told me to give her a pill per day for the next three days.

Miraculously, within several hours after putting the first Trichocure pill down May's throat, I could see a real improvement, and by this morning things looked unbelievably good. I could not see any white matter in her throat and could not feel any lump in there. She did a lot of flying in my bedroom by the window, took a bath and picked on water, but still I have not seen her eat yet on her own. 

Now, I am left with the dilemma whether to continue with the treatment or wait. I have seen different dosage schedules for the Trichocure Online? Also I don't know if I should stop feeding her with a tube? She is still very thin. She has a curved beak, which I was told is abnormality with pigeons, and I had to file it down, but there is still a small gap between her upper and lower beak. Her tongue is much better and she keeps it inside of her mouth now. There is only a very small part of the tip of it which it seems has been dried out and died for good.


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

The poor little guy, I hope he makes it.

Here's a scissor beak


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I think it is best to continue the treatment, all three pills.
The cancker might not be gone completely and will come back if you discontinue now.
I was reading recently that there has been increasingly more reports of canker resistant to usual treatments. I hope we won't have problems in the near future.

Is she is skinny continue feeding her, gradulally you can delay the morning feedings and see if she starts pecking on her seeds.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Definitely do all three pills. 

fp


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Here is an update on May.

I have completed the dosage of the three Trichocure pills couple of days ago. As far as I can tell, canker is gone and there is no visible damage to her throat or her beak. Yesterday I had only fed her with the tube once about 15 ml at the end of the day. She has started picking on seeds but I can't tell how much she is swallowing. Today as I was trying to feed her again, I did see a seed inside of her throat which went down eventually by itself. So I am assuming she can eat ... how effectively, I don't know yet.

The issue now is her beak which, rehabber has told me, is not normal and will have to be filed on an ongoing bases. I am assuming that perhaps the reason she got ill in the first place is because of her beak, and therefore inability to eat properly. I don't think her beak is scissored but the top grows curved and there is a gap between the upper and lower part. I have filed it so now gap is not as wide but it is still slightly there. I have made an illustration to demonstrate this but for some reason I've not been able to post that image.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

All right... I finally got it. Here is the illustration of May's beak before and after the filing:


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I guess you will need to file the beak periodically. My Tiny has a bit of an overgrowth but the tip does break of by itself. Then I have a dove where the overgrowth get really bad, I need to clip her beak often otherwise she has trouble eating.
You've done a great job with this bird.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ante, that looks lots better. Love your drawings.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WELL DONE, Ante!

May has come a long way toward becoming a happy healthy pij! You did one terrific job and never gave up! Looks like you are able to keep her beak under control too.

Please keep us updated!

Wishing you and May the BEST

With LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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