# Drug testing racing pigeons



## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

We are looking to start drug testing birds in our club and am looking for any info you might have on the drug tests and testing. How the tests are done, where do we get them and what all these tests will test for?

Any information you can give on this subject will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 

Mark/Ace


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

Mark get a hold of the GHC in spring hills they should be able to guide you.good luck.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Paragon Loft said:


> Mark get a hold of the GHC in spring hills they should be able to guide you.good luck.


Thank you... I was hoping someone on here would be able to tell me what we need to know and save me that phone call.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Drug testing. Aren't you a small club with 100 plus birds a race? Why do they want to drug test? Are you even racing?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Drug testing isn't cost effective. It cost us $150 per sample sent in to the lab and that is with a bulk discount because our combine sends in a good amount of samples. My club just got our bill from the combine for this past yb season and it's over $1500 after paying the person taking the samples and shipping of the samples to the lab. It's a waste of money the lab is making more money off our races then the club is.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Drug testing. Aren't you a small club with 100 plus birds a race? Why do they want to drug test? Are you even racing?


Last year we had two lofts join together and fly out of the same back yard. For the full young bird season they won all but 1 race (I did not race last year). We believe they were juicing their birds. Because of our thin line of flight a lot of races are won by seconds, but not last year. 

We are restarting the Indian River RPC. Several of the TCPC members including these two and myself are switching to the IRRPC. It is the IRRPC that wants to test and I told them I would get the info on it for them. 

I will not be flying again this year, but there is a part of me that wants to fly the Black Ace's, white Ace's, Salt & Pepper Ace's and the 11 flight Ace family next year. I will be 4 and 5 generations into some of these breedings next year and the best way to test them is to fly them myself.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Drug testing isn't cost effective. It cost us $150 per sample sent in to the lab and that is with a bulk discount because our combine sends in a good amount of samples. My club just got our bill from the combine for this past yb season and it's over $1500 after paying the person taking the samples and shipping of the samples to the lab. It's a waste of money the lab is making more money off our races then the club is.


Thank you,

As you can see by my response to Randy it appears to be needed. We will have money races as well and we need to know the races are fair.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I can see testing in a situation like that where somebody is winning out of turn and in money races like our LBRA. But our combine has gotten test crazy they force the clubs to have the first 3 lofts tested when they chose your club to be tested in the club races which is at least once a season. Last year the 3rd loft in our club the week they picked us was beat by more then half the combine and our club had to pay $150 to test that sample. One good thing that was changed at the combine meeting last week was that now we made it where the combine will cover the tests for the combine races instead of the clubs. The way it was the little clubs could be put out of business with the cost associated with the testing.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I would talk around and get some support before the next combine meeting. Then make a motion that when a club is chosen for testing their top 3 birds to only test all 3 if they are all in the top 10% of the combine. 

I have found the contact person I need and am contacting that person today to have him send all of the info to me. It will include all drugs and products that are not to be used. Once I have received this list I will post it here.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Testing for BIG money races I think is a great idea.....Testing for club races with no money involved is not a good idea....Change the race course,to solve the problem....We had a big combine here in the old days...We changed the course,and the same guys still won....125 Lofts and 1,500 birds.....Didn`t make any difference...These guys were big time racing pigeon flyers....Some times,you just have to say these guys have great birds,being handled like we all want to handle our birds,BUT DON`T !!......Alamo


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I do not like taking blood from my pigeons. A few years back I had a professor
from UPJ at Johnstown ask to take blood samples from some of my birds for a student project. I said to go ahead, he took it from under the wing. Two weeks later I lost my best racer ( 1414 ) on a good day. Never again ! 
I don't know why a countermark cannot be placed on the other leg by a COMBINE rep for money races. It may be a little time consuming but you will have 2 id 's on a bird. The rubber cntrmark number can be relayed to the combine secretary when over the phone when the bird is clocked.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

wildcat hunter said:


> I do not like taking blood from my pigeons. A few years back I had a professor
> from UPJ at Johnstown ask to take blood samples from some of my birds for a student project. I said to go ahead, he took it from under the wing. Two weeks later I lost my best racer ( 1414 ) on a good day. Never again !
> I don't know why a countermark cannot be placed on the other leg by a COMBINE rep for money races. It may be a little time consuming but you will have 2 id 's on a bird. The rubber cntrmark number can be relayed to the combine secretary when over the phone when the bird is clocked.


They don't take blood they use a sample of the birds droppings.

As for your other comment the countermark which really has nothing to do with this thread. But I fell they should have a countermark as well as the chip band as a back up to prove the bird actually made it home and not that somebody found a way to tamper with their electronic clock. There are hackers who can get into secure government computers how hard would it be for one of them guys to mess with one of our clocks. If there was a counter mark that had to be called in within a certain amount of time of clocking the birds it would be more secure especially in races where there's good money involved.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ace in the hole said:


> I would talk around and get some support before the next combine meeting. Then make a motion that when a club is chosen for testing their top 3 birds to only test all 3 if they are all in the top 10% of the combine.
> 
> I have found the contact person I need and am contacting that person today to have him send all of the info to me. It will include all drugs and products that are not to be used. Once I have received this list I will post it here.


 I'd like to see this list we don't have a list which is ridiculous since the committee can chose if something is legal or not depending on if they use it or not. The rules say no pain killers but they were saying it was legal for ppl to have Procaine which is basically Novocaine which would be a pain killer. That was knocked out after there was enough backlash from a few members. Also the committee is supposed to keep test results quiet until all due processes are preformed which means they are supposed to call the accused member before the committee. That member is supposed to bring whatever they used and if something was used that unknowingly contained a banned substance, which you don't have a list to check what is banned in the first place, is used they would get a warning and the members would be told not to use that product. But I was tested in 2012 for the LBRA when I was 16th over a half hour late. Well I started hearing rumors that I had tested positive and it was all over the place before I was even asked by the committee what I had used. So I was labeled a cheater then after they announced what was in my bird ppl said the drug committee was crazy since what my bird had in it was Bromhexine which is in some of the respiratory meds including the Ganus mix which I used and more then half the local guys used. It was just my birds had a respiratory problem that week so I gave it to them closer to the race then most guys and it showed up in my test. So Bromhexine is now considered legal to use and now they even sell it straight at the local pet shops and pretty much everybody is using it now.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

As for your other comment the countermark which really has nothing to do with this thread - HUH, ??????????????????? why not?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

wildcat hunter said:


> As for your other comment the countermark which really has nothing to do with this thread - HUH, ??????????????????? why not?


Because the thread is about drug testing racing pigeons and the countermark has nothing to do with drug testing.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> Testing for BIG money races I think is a great idea.....Testing for club races with no money involved is not a good idea....Change the race course,to solve the problem....We had a big combine here in the old days...We changed the course,and the same guys still won....125 Lofts and 1,500 birds.....Didn`t make any difference...These guys were big time racing pigeon flyers....Some times,you just have to say these guys have great birds,being handled like we all want to handle our birds,BUT DON`T !!......Alamo


>>

...."If".... They are drugging the birds how is changing the course going to solve the problem??????? Did you think about member retention if they can't win a race??????? One of these two lofts was flying against me in 2014. He was the one I had to beat and it was his first year flying. I will just say they are getting their drugs from Cuba......... I was told from the GHC man who knows that this is where their biggest drugging problem is coming from as well. We are between 95% and 105% sure they are juicing the birds. So tell me..... How you would solve this problem without testing???


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I'd like to see this list


PM me your email address and I will email it to you. The list is 22 pages long and is updated each year with more drugs not to be used. There are several BromXXXXXX but not Bromhexine.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

ACE.....Just because somebody is beating your birds,and even if he is a new guy,that doesn`t mean he is cheating in any way or form.....I raised a new guy here last year a team of 17 YB`s....He beat me in I think in almost all the races.....New guys work at it 24/7....They train etc their rear ends off....In our combine,a new guy won a couple of races,and I think 5 or 6 club races out of 8 races....It happens !! I did very well when I 1st started....They thought I was doing something,just like you do now,about the new guy....I invited any & all to come and wait for my birds to come in....A couple of guys did....Never had a problem since....I was getting birds,in tough races,when many of the old guys were not...Even the money races...Had 14 of 54 birds clocked one $$ race...Many lofts a NO REPORT !!!...I trained night and day....I took the birds out 45/50 miles,and let them go 1 hr before dark....Never had any stay out overnight....I made they fly fast,one way or the other,with good training...Now that I am going on 74,I don`t hardly train like I did 30 years ago...And my results show it....Alamo


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> ACE.....Just because somebody is beating your birds,and even if he is a new guy,that doesn`t mean he is cheating in any way or form.....I raised a new guy here last year a team of 17 YB`s....He beat me in I think in almost all the races.....New guys work at it 24/7....They train etc their rear ends off....In our combine,a new guy won a couple of races,and I think 5 or 6 club races out of 8 races....It happens !! I did very well when I 1st started....They thought I was doing something,just like you do now,about the new guy....I invited any & all to come and wait for my birds to come in....A couple of guys did....Never had a problem since....I was getting birds,in tough races,when many of the old guys were not...Even the money races...Had 14 of 54 birds clocked one $$ race...Many lofts a NO REPORT !!!...I trained night and day....I took the birds out 45/50 miles,and let them go 1 hr before dark....Never had any stay out overnight....I made they fly fast,one way or the other,with good training...Now that I am going on 74,I don`t hardly train like I did 30 years ago...And my results show it....Alamo


You didn't answer my question!

He isn't beating my birds. I didn't fly last year when he and his partner loft won 18 of the 19 young bird races. He flew my birds in the Futurity last year and they beat his birds. The year before he won 4 races and I won 10. It isn't about me. It is about the club, it's members and being fair.

You don't know and/or understand the problem that exists here. 

Are you saying we should just close our eyes to this and not test? Or.... should we maybe test so everyone in the club knows for sure. 

I didn't start this thread so we could get into a pissing match about it. I was just looking for info so we could get set up to test. We are going to do it weather you think we should or not.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

ACE....If you have to,test all club winning pigeons...If he is doing something,he will have to stop...If his results flop down to the bottom,you solved the problem,even without catching him red handed...Good luck buddy....*Didn`t mean to rattle your cage*....Just love that expression that Dale Earnhardt used quite a few times...Miss the dude !! Alamo


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> ACE....If you have to,test all club winning pigeons...If he is doing something,he will have to stop...If his results flop down to the bottom,you solved the problem,even without catching him red handed...Good luck buddy....*Didn`t mean to rattle your cage*....Just love that expression that Dale Earnhardt used quite a few times...Miss the dude !! Alamo


*No worries mate...It's all good*.


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