# Question for breeding



## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

i give these two products below to my birds. I purchased them from siegels and they work great. i was wondering if it is ok to give them to my breeders with babies in the nest? Thanks for any help.


Ecol–Tonic An all-natural product fortified with ten special organic acids and proven in the loft to be effective in boosting immunity and promoting health and vigor, and bringing the droppings back to normal in racing and show pigeons. 16 oz. will dose 32 gallons of water. Always remember to follow the use of Ecol-Tonic with a good pro-biotic. 

Health Gard -- A pro-biotic water-additive formula made from specially cultured, naturally occurring microbes and a unique catalyst, which increases blood-stream absorption by ten times. Use one teaspoon per gallon of water. One quart covers 60 to 80 birds for six months.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

My pigeons do great on their own dont know why you would need to add anything else to make them perform any better ??? Food,space in a good helter and water is all that one should need..that plus grit .


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

thanks for the response. its pretty well known that pro biotics do help bring pigeon droppings back to normal after being stressed or raced. As well as adding good bacteria to the crop of the pigeon. These two products are not to increase performance either. Like i said they do well for me, and i will continue to stick to these two products, just wondering if its ok to give breeders with babies in the nest.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

soundmajorr said:


> thanks for the response. its pretty well known that pro biotics do help bring pigeon droppings back to normal after being stressed or raced. As well as adding good bacteria to the crop of the pigeon. These two products are not to increase performance either. Like i said they do well for me, and i will continue to stick to these two products, just wondering if its ok to give breeders with babies in the nest.


 probiotics are good so add them regularly it should keep your birds at least balanced digestively but dont know anything about that other product that you use so cant help you there sorry


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I would think it would say not to if it would hurt them, If its natural it's probubly ok I would think.What is the difference that you can tell with those products?


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

thanks pigeon villa....shadybug, i like the fact that they both for the water and not the feed. and to be honest i havnt tried any other tonic. i have tried the regular pro biotic powder that goes on the feed, and the health gard works faster in my eyes and from my experience. i give the ecol tonic on mondays and health gard on tuesday. by tuesday and wednesday the droppings are normal as can be.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I will have to try that. My wife is getting me a bunch of things I need for the birds for Christmas I will add it to the list.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

i'd recommend it.


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## MH Flyer (Nov 7, 2012)

Ecol–Tonic and Health Gard work great. Will need to do further research to find out if it can be use during nesting.?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

How often do you use it and what color is the eco tonic.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

the ecol-tonic is clear creamy color. smells citrusy. i use the ecol-tonic every monday and the health gard tuesdays and give a tea on wednesdays. the health gard says on the bottle that it can be used every day. i like giving the birds days with regular water so i just give them on monday and tuesday.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I had a handful of YBs last year get fluffed up and runny poop. I put the whole team through the Ecol-tonic regiment as directed on the bottle and it cleared up. I use it fairly regularly now and I feel confident saying it works well. Some products, you know, you just can't tell if it has any impact. But this one did for me.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

i agree with kastle. exol-tonic and health gard work great for me. i will actually be making another purchase today, im just about out of ecol-tonic.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

soundmajorr said:


> the ecol-tonic is clear creamy color. smells citrusy. i use the ecol-tonic every monday and the health gard tuesdays and give a tea on wednesdays. the health gard says on the bottle that it can be used every day. i like giving the birds days with regular water so i just give them on monday and tuesday.


 Ok Thanks. I was just wondering since they said it needed to be refrigerated, I thought it might contain penicillin, it is a milky color when added to water, thats why I wanted to know the color sound like it could be.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

When you give it to them each week do the dropping stay good all the time.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah this isn't any type of medicine. Not sure of exactly all the ingredients but it smells citrusy.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

If its not any type of meds then it could be used during breeding right? The thing is you don't know whats in it. I will try it My birds are heathy but their droppings are always a little off not all but some of them.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Yah I would think due to that it's ok. I heard its not good to give breeders brewers yeast because the yeast is basically a fungus. Ao I wasn't sure if this is one of those things that applies to not giving breeders. What I am going to do is call aiegels tomorrow since its their product and see what they say.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Let us know what they say


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I love to look in the loft and see perfect dropping. It just makes my day for some reason.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah for one gives you the reassurance that the birds are healthy. Plus it makes easier for cleaning. But I will definitely let everyone know.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

just got off the phone with siegels. They said that with these two products, ecol-tonic and health gard it is ok to give to breeders with babies in the nest. will not cause any harm to them as everything is natural in it. it will only decrease the chances of the babies getting sick and would recommend giving it to the parents.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I recieved the tonic for Christmas and have used it twice. The droppings did get better after the first dose. There brown and white now so I will say that it works well. I will continue to use it. One question, should I continue to use acv on the off days or not?


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

Hello shadybug, I'm glad you liked it and it works great for you. I just ordered me another bottle today. This is the way I use it. It says it's good when you follow this with a probiotic. I use this Monday. Health gard(pro biotic) Tuesday. Thursday acv. So to answer your question you can still use acv. As far as when or how often, pretty much up to your discretion. It actually says you can use ecotonic more than once. I use it once a week just because I like to give my birds some days of regular water. I'm happy it worked for you. Another one satisfied with this product.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I did follow your advice. I used it on Monday and the health gaurd on Tuesday then I did acv every other day and plan water the other days. I think that will work then. Thanks again, I think its important for folks to tell others about products that work because there are a lot that don't. Thanks again


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

I couldnt agree with you more. A lot of stuff that's out there doesn't work. And a lot of people either don't want others to know about certain things. Due to competitive reasons. But I know how useful and valuable all the input can be. This is barely going to be my 2nd season. 1st full one of breeding. So the input about good products and advice is appreciated. Thank you shadybugs.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

just wanted to post this information that is on the front of siegels. Of course some think that he posting this information is biased, as he sells it and manufactures this. Just wanted to post it here since we were talking about this very product. i Concede as well that i like it.




One supplement that has consistently received very strong positive feedback from fanciers all around the country for a number of years is Health Gard, a pro-biotic water-additive formula. In fact, we have had negative feedback from no one using the product during the nearly nine years that we have carried Health Gard, while we have heard hundreds of personal testimonials about its effectiveness. 





We have used Health Gard regularly in our own lofts since the 2002 breeding season, and we have been completely gratified with the results in our babies. We send many birds to a number of out-of-area races, and the babies that are raised by our breeders taking Health Gard do not succumb to many of the diseases that affect other birds of the same age in the same lofts. Parent birds given Health Gard seem to pass on to the babies a high resistance to viral infections for many months after the product is removed from the diet, and racing birds have shown a greater resistance to disease.


The concept behind Health Gard is to use large doses of naturally occurring micro-organisms to help correct or control health problems in our pigeons. We use Health Gard in our own lofts during the breeding season every day on our breeders from the beginning of January until the end of March, which encompasses our first two rounds. The Health Gard is given in addition to our regular supplements like Pigeon Power.

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Each year, we send out nearly 200 youngsters from our first two rounds to other lofts to race, either in futurities or in convention races, or to partner lofts to be tested. After a couple of months, some of the lofts that I've sent birds to will begin to report sicknesses like Cercle Virus, but the overwhelming majority of our babies remain healthy, even when there are babies of the same age from other breeders dying all around them. Given all the circumstances, I have concluded that Health Gard makes the difference.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

soundmajorr said:


> I couldnt agree with you more. *A lot of stuff that's out there doesn't work. *And a lot of people either don't want others to know about certain things. Due to competitive reasons. But I know how useful and valuable all the input can be. This is barely going to be my 2nd season. 1st full one of breeding. So the input about good products and advice is appreciated. Thank you shadybugs.


 And it is very difficult for one to point to any particular product, and say that any good things which result are the cause of the product. I have this product Ecol-Tonic and have used it for some time. I believe it is safe to use when there are YB's in the nest. But, I generally avoid adding such stuff when feeding babies, unless there is a medical problem. I wouldn't give it, just because I am doing something, and it makes me feel good. More likely to use ACV and probiotics, and reserve when it is really needed or when not on babies., but that is me.


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