# 9 Points Loft is #1 at the Winners Cup



## SmithFamilyLoft

Imagine my shock, when I reviewed the list of pros competeing this year at Bill Hatchers *Winners Cup *One Loft Race, and none other then Dan Detweiler aka "Learning" here at Pigeon Talk, and owner of 9 Points Racing Loft, is listed right at the top of the Breeders List !! I would not be surprised if at the end of the series of races, that he ends up #1 on the list of winners ! 


List All Breeders 
Bid Web Name Contact State 
*1 103 9 POINTS RACING 9 POINTS RACING *
2 1 ABC-RACE BILL HATCHER OK 
3 67 ANTHONY SORRENTINO ANTHONY SORRENTINO 
4 6 APC LOFT GEORGE RANKIN 
5 49 AZTEC LOFT ALEX RUIZ 
6 53 B AND R SYNDICATE RANDY GOODPASTURE 
7 7 BILL NESLER BILL NESLER 
8 8 BILL RIXEY BILL RIXEY 
9 80 BILL TADLOCK BILL TADLOCK MD 
10 83 BILL TADLOCK BILL TADLOCK 
11 21 BLUESTREAK L ADAMS 
12 51 BRAD BEARY LOFT BRAD BEARY 
13 52 BRIAN WILKERSON BRIAN WILKERSON 
14 58 BYRON WEAVER BYRON WEAVER 
15 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 
16 36 CAREY TILSON CAREY TILSON 
17 84 CAROLINA SYNDICATE CAROLINA SYNDICATE NC 
18 95 CBS PIGEON CBS PIGEON 
19 30 CECIL ROMERO WEBEONE 
20 77 CERTAIN LOFTS USA NOEL CERTAIN 
21 34 CRAZY AL CRAZY AL 
22 11 DAN ROMANSKI DAN ROMANSKI 
23 43 DAVE HARRETT DAVE HARRETT 
24 19 DAVE PETERSEN DAVE PETERSEN 
25 71 DAVE SARGENT DAVE SARGENT 
26 40 DAVID CLAUSING DAVID CLAUSING 
27 70 DELMONTE BROS. MARIO DELMONTE 
28 44 DOUBLT T LOFTS TOM/TIM BEARD 
29 29 EAST WIND LOFT EAST WIND LOFT 
30 101 EL DORADO DONALD PETERSON 
31 50 FAHY ROBINSON FAHY ROBINSON 
32 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT FLORIDIAN LOFT FL 
33 74 FRED STEPHENS FRED STEPHENS 
34 9 GARY BERTAGNOLLI GARY BERTAGNOLLI 
35 38 GENE TENBRINK GENE TENBRINK 
36 28 GENE WILLIAMS GENE WILLIAMS 
37 69 GOLDCOAST LOFT JAMIE LIPSETT 
38 35 HAPYCO / PATTERSON CHIC BROOKS / LONNIE PTRSON 
39 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM DANNY HUTCHINS 
40 59 JIM LEGGIERI JIM LEGGIERI 
41 97 JIM TRACY LOFT JIM TRACY LOFT 
42 33 K.O.M. LOFT DAVE GALLAGHER 
43 39 KEVIN L. LOFT KEVIN L. LOFT 
44 37 KOLVENBAG AND ENNIS KOLVENBAG AND ENNIS 
45 87 LONE STAR LOFT CL GAGE TX 
46 46 LONNIE PATTERSON LONNIE PATTERSON 
47 61 LUDWIG LOFT TIM LUDWIG 
48 3 MARIAN MUCHA MARIAN MUCHA 
49 75 MARIAN TALOI MARIAN TALOI 
50 60 MARK TEAL MARK TEAL 
51 102 MARTIN LIUVENT MARTIN LIUVENT 
52 13 MATT WIESBROCK MATT WIESBROCK 
53 14 MECHAM AND CHRISTOPHER ALLAN MECHAN/KEN CHRIST. 
54 76 NICK KOWALCHUK NICK KOWALCHUK 
55 22 PAUL WALSH LOFT PAUL WALSH 
56 25 POLISH PRINCE TEAM POLISH PRINCE TEAM 
57 42 PROPIGEON LOFT JOEL ALVAREZ 
58 24 R AND S LOFT ROBERT FEWIN 
59 47 ROGER AND FRANK ROGER MORTVEDT 
60 56 ROGER HARLIN ROGER HARLIN 
61 99 ROGER MORTVEDT ROGER MORTVEDT 
62 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS RUSTY WILLIAMS CA 
63 64 SHANE McCOY SHANE McCOY 
64 100 SIERRA RANCH STEVE STERCHI 
65 86 SKIP WALSTON SKIP WALSTON 
66 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA WARREN SMITH 
67 93 SOCWA Boys SOCWA Boys 
68 96 STAN GEORGE STAN GEORGE 
69 23 STEPHEN FURLONGE STEPHEN FURLONGE 
70 66 STEVE MISTLER STEVE MISTLER 
71 63 STEVE WILLOUGHBY STEVE WILLOUGHBY 
72 12 TERRY BROOKS TERRY BROOKS 
73 72 THE GOLDEN TEAM SERGIO LOPEZ 
74 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED TIMBERLINE SPEED TX 
75 16 TIMBERLINE SPEED TIMBERLINE SPEED 
76 98 TOM & INGE TOM & INGE 
77 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT BOB N SARA 
78 18 TWO BE WON BILL ENSIGN/VIC DEBROUWER 
79 26 WALSTON / TILSON WALSTON / TILSON 
80 85 WALSTON/TILSON WALSTON/TILSON NC 
81 57 WIN PHAM WIN PHAM 
82 62 WING-N-IT LOFT MIKE DELONG 
83 2 WINNERS CUP USA BILL HATCHER OK

Check it out for yourself !

http://www.winnerscupusa.com/


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## Lovebirds

Cool!! We'll be watching the updates and results. Good luck to BOTH of you. May the best bird win...........


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## learning

Believe me, if this list looks like this on race day it will truely be a miracle!  Not that I will complain.

More likely is that you will see those Smith Family birds fighting for the top spot. I am just trying to learn as much about my breeding program as I can. We'll see if my southern red neck birds can hold their own!

Dan
aka 9 Points Racing Loft


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## wolfwood

WOW! Celebrities - right here in our midst!

Congratulations!!


<Having spent a day or so as #8 Open Obedience team in the US out of 4000 Open dog/handler Obedience teams - I understand all too well the sheer joy of just being in the Top 10. We ended the competition as #18 Team but even seeing our names on the "Top 25" list was a thrill!!! Enjoy your glory - whether or not it lasts to race day!!!>


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## Skyeking

Congratulations!!


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## [MN]eXist^_^

Its gonna be a tough race series looking at all the competitors good luck to both of you!! May you both have many first on the drops!!!!!!


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## g0ldenb0y55

Good luck you guys!


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## LUCKYT

It is a good omen Dan! You will place well! Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Regardless of race results - Dan is a Champion in the making !*



learning said:


> Believe me, if this list looks like this on race day it will truely be a miracle!  Not that I will complain.
> 
> More likely is that you will see those Smith Family birds fighting for the top spot. I am just trying to learn as much about my breeding program as I can. We'll see if my southern red neck birds can hold their own!
> 
> Dan
> aka 9 Points Racing Loft


I'm sorry, in my excitement and haste, I referred to your racing organization as " 9 Points Loft" when it should have been "*9 Points Racing Loft*".

I went back and corrected what I could, but the title of the thread can not be changed. 

I just get a warm fuzzy feeling, when I see you joined this site in May 2006, and at that point, the idea of getting back into racing pigeons was still just an idea in the planning stages. You had no pigeons, no loft, and in fact just a yard with a bunch of trees that would need to be removed. 

We all read your posts, and looked at the pictures as you progressed. If I'm not mistaken, it took more then two years before you had the design down, and the loft built. And we followed that progress week after week after week. 

And now, it's like you are all grown up and competing on a professional level, with your name up in lights. IMO you have made a giant leap from a first year rookie in your club and combine, and now you have stepped up to the plate, and grabbed the bull by the horns. You are in competition now with various 
syndicates and some hard core professionals, some of the best from around the United States. 

I know in your modest and quiet way, you would have preferred to compete without any attention or fanfare. Perhaps you feel like you did at your first music recital in front of a crowd of people. The natural tendency is to have sweaty palms and butter flies in your stomach. And that nagging dreadful fear of some form of failure, or mistake, which could lead to public humiliation. From my perspective, life is full of challenges, and to the perspective Champion, the greatest challenge is over coming that fear, and stepping up to the plate. You could very well strike out. And at the end of this series of races, most of the participants will not be in the Winners Circle. You, or I guess the correct thing to say is your birds, may be winners, or they may turn out to be something less. They could all get lost off the landing board, or fail to return from a training toss. 

But, in my book, you will be a winner regardless of what your four birds do. Because you were willing to stand up to the challenge, and not let fear of failure keep you from trying. I'm not a baseball fan, but I'm of the understanding that Babe Ruth made a lot of strike outs. Percentage wise I guess most of his attempts were failures. People don't remember all the failed attempts, they remember the successes. Many people will never see success, not because they lack the skill or the ability, but they are afraid to step up to the plate, in front of the crowd, and take the risk that they may have to endure a failure. In that regard, you have already overcome that hurdle, and are on your way to great racing success in the future.

I am proud of you, as many on this site are, in having shared in your progress to this milestone in your career. 

I hope your birds whip them all, every last one of them !! 

I just hope your birds will be gentle with the "pretty " little birds my wife picked out, if yours happen to end up in the same crate.


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## Lovebirds

learning said:


> Believe me, if this list looks like this on race day it will truely be a miracle!  Not that I will complain.
> 
> More likely is that you will see those Smith Family birds fighting for the top spot. I am just trying to learn as much about my breeding program as I can. We'll see if my southern red neck birds can hold their own!
> 
> Dan
> aka 9 Points Racing Loft


Hey......"red neck" birds are DA Bomb!! LOL
I have faith in you. I think you'll do well.


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## wolfwood

PERFECTLY said, Warren!!


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## learning

Well, I am humbled by Warren's comments. It has been a long road and these first few attempts will be interesting to say the least. I think one reason Warren is excited is that my 4 bird team represents a lot of the blood that is currently in his loft in York. If my birds enjoy any success at all, the truth is that they are the result of the years of work Warren put into his breeding stock.

Now, having said that, if they are all lost off the landing board in training then it's all my fault...right Warren! 

Dan


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## LUCKYT

Lol!:d:d:d:d


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## LUCKYT

LOL!  Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft

learning said:


> .......Now, having said that, if they are all lost off the landing board in training then it's all my fault...right Warren!
> 
> Dan


Now your "learning" !

One of my favorite past times, is coming up with some new good excuses !

Now, if my birds do poorly, I already have a ready made perfect excuse ! My wife picked the birds !!!! 

And if people roll their eyes, I can always fall back on blaming the poor results on some ole favorites passed down by club members past and present !

The race organizer, the race format, the liberator, the weather, east winds, north winds, south winds, west winds, or no winds at all. Sun spots, cell phones, US Air Force "secret" communication freqencies, golbal warming, just bad luck, and well....you get the picture....... 

Now of course if the bird(s) win, the birds never get the credit, it is the genius of the breeder...er...uh...unless the breeder lives south of the Maryland line, and then of course....then it was the breeder before him.

If the breeder lives north of the Maryland Line, then of course all the credit must stay in Pa., as the rule above does not apply, if the previous breeder lives outside York County.......that last one I thought was some sort of AU rule, until a few years ago. 

And if by some chance, my birds make a good showing of themselves, no body can give my wife Karen any of the credit, because I had to crate them all up for her to look at, and then put the rest all away...and then ship them in a box. So, it would only be "fair" if I then got most...er ...all the credit. Because those are the house club rules. 

See why pigeon racing is so much fun ?


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## hillfamilyloft

I also see some names that have been at the top of a few races. 
Namely:

Crazy AL
Fahy Robinson
That Smith Guy
Terry Brooks

These guys might be hard to beat. 

Sounds like a good race.

Randy


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## [MN]eXist^_^

Lmao nicely said Mr.Smith.


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## Guest

will have to keep an eye on these races when they come about , should be exciting


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## Big T

I put alot of faith in lady luck. My wife married me, and I do everything I can so she will keep me. You wife gets all the credit because she picked the breeder of the birds before she picked the birds. Now behave Warren and focus on the race, your wife deserves to win.

learning, you are a quick study and somehow have become a teacher, (pun intended). I hope your birds fly fast and true.

Good luck and god bless gentlemen,
Tony


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## RodSD

Randy,

Those pigeons don't know whom they are competing. They probably wont get intimidated unlike humans.

Dan,

I wish you well.

Warren,

I wish you well as well (I see your name in the list).


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## whitesnmore

hillfamilyloft said:


> I also see some names that have been at the top of a few races.
> Namely:
> 
> Crazy AL
> Fahy Robinson
> That Smith Guy
> Terry Brooks
> 
> These guys might be hard to beat.
> 
> Sounds like a good race.
> 
> Randy


As Warren proved at the Flamingo even the "Big Boys (& Girls)" can be taken down by the little guys. A good start in life for the YB is one of the most important things you can do.


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## kalapati

*Regarding Entrants Info?*

i noticed that out of 109 birds entered so far there's only 2 cocks. seems that very few fanciers trust the cocks to race nowadays. any explanation...lol




bid Breeder Pigeon Color Sex Eligible Team Comment Modified 
1 6 APC LOFT 1923-AU09-AHPI BC H Yes 1 2009-03-14 
*2 6 APC LOFT 9024-AU09-APC BB C Yes 1 2009-03-14 *
3 6 APC LOFT 9032-AU09-APC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-14 
4 6 APC LOFT 9034-AU09-APC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-14 
5 8 BILL RIXEY 0021-AU09-RIXY BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
6 8 BILL RIXEY 0026-AU09-RIXY BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
7 8 BILL RIXEY 0027-AU09-RIXY BBPD H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
8 8 BILL RIXEY 0034-AU09-RIXY BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
9 83 BILL TADLOCK 90044-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
10 83 BILL TADLOCK 90045-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
11 83 BILL TADLOCK 93038-IF09-BWI BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
12 83 BILL TADLOCK 93039-IF09-BWI BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
13 83 BILL TADLOCK 90036-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
14 83 BILL TADLOCK 93033-IF09-BWI BWF H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
15 83 BILL TADLOCK 93034-IF09-BWI BBPD H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
16 83 BILL TADLOCK 93036-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
17 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0920-AU09-CARN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
18 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0921-AU09-CARN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
19 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0930-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
20 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0944-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
21 36 CAREY TILSON 0323-AU09-TENT BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
22 84 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0315-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
23 84 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0316-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
24 95 CBS PIGEON 0759-AU09-CBS SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
25 95 CBS PIGEON 0771-AU09-CBS BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
26 95 CBS PIGEON 0791-AU09-CBS BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
27 95 CBS PIGEON 0800-AU09-CBS BCH H Yes 1 2009-03-25 
28 103 DAN DETWEILER O157-AU09-9PTS BC H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
29 103 DAN DETWEILER 0161-AU09-9PTS RPD H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
30 103 DAN DETWEILER 0165-AU09-9PTS SIL H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
31 103 DAN DETWEILER 0167-AU09-9PTS BB H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
32 101 EL DORADO 5073-AU09-TEXS BCWF H Yes 1 2009-04-03 
33 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2500-AU09-SCHE BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
34 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2501-AU09-SCHE BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
35 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2530-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
36 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2531-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
37 74 FRED STEPHENS 0340-AU09-FRED BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
38 74 FRED STEPHENS 0350-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
39 74 FRED STEPHENS 0352-AU09-FRED BCPD H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
40 74 FRED STEPHENS 0354-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
41 74 FRED STEPHENS 0356-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
42 38 GENE TENBRINK 0115-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12 
43 38 GENE TENBRINK 0118-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12 
44 38 GENE TENBRINK 0121-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12 
45 38 GENE TENBRINK 0126-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12 
46 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0118-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
47 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0120-AU09-HUT SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
48 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0121-AU09-HUT SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
49 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0146-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
50 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0074-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18 
51 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0075-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18 
52 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0115-AU09-HUT RC H Yes 2 2009-03-18 
53 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0137-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18 
54 97 JIM TRACY LOFT 5088-AU09-COC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-28 
55 97 JIM TRACY LOFT 5652-AU09-AHPI BBPD H Yes 1 2009-03-28 
56 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13901-AU09-ARPU SLT H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
57 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13910-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
58 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13913-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
59 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13914-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
60 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13909-AU09-ARPU BC H Yes 2 2009-03-19 
61 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0712-AU09-DEN BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
62 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0713-AU09-DEN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
63 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0714-AU09-DEN BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
64 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0718-AU09-DEN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
65 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3074-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04 
66 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3075-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04 
67 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3078-AU09-SCHE SLT H Yes 1 2009-04-04 
68 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3079-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04 
69 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1814-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
70 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1815-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
71 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1819-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
72 24 R AND S LOFT 9303-AU09-LLC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-27 
73 24 R AND S LOFT 9307-AU09-LLC BCH H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
74 24 R AND S LOFT 9310-AU09-LLC BB H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
75 24 R AND S LOFT 9312-AU09-LLC BCWF H Yes 1 2009-04-08 
76 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1141-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
77 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1142-AU09-SBV DC H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
78 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1145-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
79 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1146-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
80 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3715-AU09-FVC BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
81 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3716-AU09-FVC BWF H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
82 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3717-AU09-FVC BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
83 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3718-AU09-FVC DCPD H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
84 100 SIERRA RANCH 0926-AU09-SRCH BC H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
85 100 SIERRA RANCH 0927-AU09-SRCH RC H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
86 100 SIERRA RANCH 0931-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
87 100 SIERRA RANCH 0935-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02 
88 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0020-AU09-SFL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
89 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0025-AU09-SFL BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
*90 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0032-AU09-SFL BB C Yes 1 2009-03-18* 
91 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0035-AU09-SFL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
92 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0100-AU09-TSL BPH H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
93 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0101-AU09-TSL BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
94 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0107-AU09-TSL GRIZ H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
95 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0108-AU09-TSL BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
96 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0116-AU09-TSL WHTE H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
97 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0118-AU09-TSL BC H Yes 2 0000-00-00 
98 98 TOM & INGE 0754-AU09-MTZ BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
99 98 TOM & INGE 0759-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
100 98 TOM & INGE 0760-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
101 98 TOM & INGE 0800-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01 
102 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0129-IF09-FFF BC H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
103 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0130-IF09-FFF BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
104 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0131-IF09-FFF BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
105 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0132-IF09-FFF BC H Yes 1 2009-03-19 
106 85 WALSTON/TILSON 0313-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
107 85 WALSTON/TILSON 0314-AU09-TENT BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00 
108 85 WALSTON/TILSON 1005-AU09-GL DCPD H Yes 1 2009-03-18 
109 85 WALSTON/TILSON 1008-AU09-GL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18 



kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## learning

I don't know about other lofts but of the four birds that I sent, I am pretty sure two of them are cocks and they are all listed as hens. Don't think it is a big priority at this point. I am sure there are more cocks than the list reveals. Besides, at this age it is awful tough to tell!

Dan


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## RodSD

But Dan, what if they disqualify your birds when they won and said they are not the same sex as listed? (joke)


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## LUCKYT

Dan, i think you will do good enough to make it worth while............


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## learning

Come now, not that I believe in such things, but let's not jinx me O.K.!

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft

learning said:


> Come now, not that I believe in such things, but let's not jinx me O.K.!
> 
> Dan


Hey...call me slow....but when did you get the new logo ?! 

You are starting to worry me, with professional logos, that would make Formula #1 owners, green with envy !!

How did you produce this ?

Very Nice !!


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## learning

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey...call me slow....but when did you get the new logo ?!
> 
> You are starting to worry me, with professional logos, that would make Formula #1 owners, green with envy !!
> 
> How did you produce this ?
> 
> Very Nice !!


All I can say is that having good fiends in the graphic design business does have its rewards! 

I am glad you like it.

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Learning Beats SFL USA !!!*

Oh boy...this could turn out to be embarrassing. In the 1st 50 mile training toss, with 94 birds, Learning here, went and tore the wings off my bird !!!  Apparently only a select few went on this toss, as the inventory is greater then 94 birds. 

You have to find 2009 Inventory, and then click on Races & Training.

http://www.winnerscupusa.com/

Where am I gonna be able to go and hide, if this keeps up ? 

Suggestions Please !!!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> i noticed that out of 109 birds entered so far there's only 2 cocks. seems that very few fanciers trust the cocks to race nowadays. any explanation...lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bid Breeder Pigeon Color Sex Eligible Team Comment Modified
> 1 6 APC LOFT 1923-AU09-AHPI BC H Yes 1 2009-03-14
> *2 6 APC LOFT 9024-AU09-APC BB C Yes 1 2009-03-14 *
> 3 6 APC LOFT 9032-AU09-APC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-14
> 4 6 APC LOFT 9034-AU09-APC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-14
> 5 8 BILL RIXEY 0021-AU09-RIXY BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 6 8 BILL RIXEY 0026-AU09-RIXY BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 7 8 BILL RIXEY 0027-AU09-RIXY BBPD H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 8 8 BILL RIXEY 0034-AU09-RIXY BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 9 83 BILL TADLOCK 90044-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 10 83 BILL TADLOCK 90045-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 11 83 BILL TADLOCK 93038-IF09-BWI BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 12 83 BILL TADLOCK 93039-IF09-BWI BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 13 83 BILL TADLOCK 90036-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 14 83 BILL TADLOCK 93033-IF09-BWI BWF H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 15 83 BILL TADLOCK 93034-IF09-BWI BBPD H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 16 83 BILL TADLOCK 93036-IF09-BWI BB H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 17 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0920-AU09-CARN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 18 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0921-AU09-CARN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 19 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0930-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 20 94 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0944-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 21 36 CAREY TILSON 0323-AU09-TENT BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 22 84 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0315-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 23 84 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0316-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 24 95 CBS PIGEON 0759-AU09-CBS SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 25 95 CBS PIGEON 0771-AU09-CBS BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 26 95 CBS PIGEON 0791-AU09-CBS BB H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 27 95 CBS PIGEON 0800-AU09-CBS BCH H Yes 1 2009-03-25
> 28 103 DAN DETWEILER O157-AU09-9PTS BC H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 29 103 DAN DETWEILER 0161-AU09-9PTS RPD H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 30 103 DAN DETWEILER 0165-AU09-9PTS SIL H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 31 103 DAN DETWEILER 0167-AU09-9PTS BB H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 32 101 EL DORADO 5073-AU09-TEXS BCWF H Yes 1 2009-04-03
> 33 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2500-AU09-SCHE BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 34 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2501-AU09-SCHE BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 35 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2530-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 36 81 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2531-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 37 74 FRED STEPHENS 0340-AU09-FRED BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 38 74 FRED STEPHENS 0350-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 39 74 FRED STEPHENS 0352-AU09-FRED BCPD H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 40 74 FRED STEPHENS 0354-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 41 74 FRED STEPHENS 0356-AU09-FRED BC H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 42 38 GENE TENBRINK 0115-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12
> 43 38 GENE TENBRINK 0118-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12
> 44 38 GENE TENBRINK 0121-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12
> 45 38 GENE TENBRINK 0126-AU09-GENE BC H Yes 1 2009-03-12
> 46 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0118-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 47 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0120-AU09-HUT SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 48 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0121-AU09-HUT SIL H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 49 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0146-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 50 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0074-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18
> 51 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0075-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18
> 52 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0115-AU09-HUT RC H Yes 2 2009-03-18
> 53 48 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0137-AU09-HUT BB H Yes 2 2009-03-18
> 54 97 JIM TRACY LOFT 5088-AU09-COC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-28
> 55 97 JIM TRACY LOFT 5652-AU09-AHPI BBPD H Yes 1 2009-03-28
> 56 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13901-AU09-ARPU SLT H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 57 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13910-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 58 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13913-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 59 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13914-AU09-ARPU BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 60 39 KEVIN L. LOFT 13909-AU09-ARPU BC H Yes 2 2009-03-19
> 61 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0712-AU09-DEN BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 62 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0713-AU09-DEN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 63 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0714-AU09-DEN BWF H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 64 87 LONE STAR LOFT 0718-AU09-DEN BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 65 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3074-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04
> 66 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3075-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04
> 67 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3078-AU09-SCHE SLT H Yes 1 2009-04-04
> 68 102 MARTIN LIUVENT 3079-AU09-SCHE BC H Yes 1 2009-04-04
> 69 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1814-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 70 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1815-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 71 76 NICK KOWALCHUK 1819-AU09-SYR BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 72 24 R AND S LOFT 9303-AU09-LLC BB H Yes 1 2009-03-27
> 73 24 R AND S LOFT 9307-AU09-LLC BCH H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 74 24 R AND S LOFT 9310-AU09-LLC BB H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 75 24 R AND S LOFT 9312-AU09-LLC BCWF H Yes 1 2009-04-08
> 76 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1141-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 77 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1142-AU09-SBV DC H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 78 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1145-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 79 99 ROGER MORTVEDT 1146-AU09-SBV BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 80 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3715-AU09-FVC BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 81 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3716-AU09-FVC BWF H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 82 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3717-AU09-FVC BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 83 31 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3718-AU09-FVC DCPD H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 84 100 SIERRA RANCH 0926-AU09-SRCH BC H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 85 100 SIERRA RANCH 0927-AU09-SRCH RC H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 86 100 SIERRA RANCH 0931-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 87 100 SIERRA RANCH 0935-AU09-SRCH BB H Yes 1 2009-04-02
> 88 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0020-AU09-SFL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 89 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0025-AU09-SFL BC H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> *90 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0032-AU09-SFL BB C Yes 1 2009-03-18*
> 91 15 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0035-AU09-SFL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 92 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0100-AU09-TSL BPH H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 93 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0101-AU09-TSL BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 94 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0107-AU09-TSL GRIZ H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 95 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0108-AU09-TSL BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 96 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0116-AU09-TSL WHTE H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 97 82 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0118-AU09-TSL BC H Yes 2 0000-00-00
> 98 98 TOM & INGE 0754-AU09-MTZ BC H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 99 98 TOM & INGE 0759-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 100 98 TOM & INGE 0760-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 101 98 TOM & INGE 0800-AU09-MTZ BB H Yes 1 2009-04-01
> 102 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0129-IF09-FFF BC H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 103 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0130-IF09-FFF BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 104 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0131-IF09-FFF BB H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 105 89 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0132-IF09-FFF BC H Yes 1 2009-03-19
> 106 85 WALSTON/TILSON 0313-AU09-TENT BB H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 107 85 WALSTON/TILSON 0314-AU09-TENT BC H Yes 1 0000-00-00
> 108 85 WALSTON/TILSON 1005-AU09-GL DCPD H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 109 85 WALSTON/TILSON 1008-AU09-GL BB H Yes 1 2009-03-18
> 
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


A little bird told me, you have birds in this event also....which ones are yours ?


----------



## learning

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Oh boy...this could turn out to be embarrassing. In the 1st 50 mile training toss, with 94 birds, Learning here, went and tore the wings off my bird !!!  Apparently only a select few went on this toss, as the inventory is greater then 94 birds.
> 
> You have to find 2009 Inventory, and then click on Races & Training.
> 
> http://www.winnerscupusa.com/
> 
> Where am I gonna be able to go and hide, if this keeps up ?
> 
> Suggestions Please !!!!


Yes Warren, this truely is a sign that your stock just isn't what it once was. I think you need to get rid of all of those birds of yours, especially those from that, what's his name...Ludo guy, and start over. 

Out of the kindness of my heart, I will even volunteer to take them off your hands for you so you can go out and get some real pigeons! 

Dan


----------



## spirit wings

must be that trout feed suppliment...LOL....


----------



## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> A little bird told me, you have birds in this event also....which ones are yours ?


what surprised me this morning is how the hell did my 6 week old birds (SD 0802 & 0811) made it from 50 mile toss at winnerscup and placed 37th & 38th. they were hatched March 18th. are you sure my birds were included in this training.

i have several YBs birds last year in my loft that were like 4 months old and got lost on a training toss of about 20 miles.




kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


----------



## learning

spirit wings said:


> must be that trout feed suppliment...LOL....


Yeah, it must have been raining really hard so they could swim home!!

I thought those things on their necks sort of looked like gills! I just thought it was some new check pattern!

Dan


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> what surprised me this morning is how the hell did my 6 week old birds (SD 0802 & 0811) made it from 50 mile toss at winnerscup and placed 37th & 38th. they were hatched March 18th. are you sure my birds were included in this training.
> 
> i have several YBs birds last year in my loft that were like 4 months old and got lost on a training toss of about 20 miles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


*Well....if you want to play with the big boys....then your birds are going to just some how try to keep up !! *

Naw...I checked with Bill, because even a great bunch of champs like this...a 50 Mile training toss as the first toss....seems a bit much.....

That's when I found out, that they were doing a test of the clock and the system which reports live results, and they had simply plugged in 50 miles. The boys and girls were simply doing laps around the loft. So, the first one's clocked, were the ones that must have gotten tired and went back inside to catch their breath and sip some cool water.....apparently, mine are still out there flying laps, some six hours later !.... 

Since Bill did not realise this "training toss" was being looked at as a toss, and not a clock and system check, they will be pulling it down ASAP !!

So....don't get too swelled of a head just yet there Learning.....I stopped putting the birds in the shipping boxes to your house, just in the nick of time !!


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^

LOL good one guys good one HAha!


----------



## RodSD

Kalapati,

It is crazy isn't it? I don't know whether it is a handler skill, the location, the feed, etc., that made the difference, but whatever it is I like it! First toss at 50 miles? Damn! That shows it is possible to toss far early. Now the question is whether they were ranging/tripping already at that age. Bill definitely is a pro.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Good luck to both of you, it would be great if a PT member brought home the gold
Dave


----------



## RodSD

Warren Smith brought golds already. He even bought and brought home a treasure from Europe.


----------



## learning

Just so everyone is clear and nobody goes out and tosses their 40 day babies 50 miles, this was a typo error. They were testing the clock system and just arbitrarily labeled it as a 50 mile toss. In reality the birds were just flying around the loft and they took the first 90 or so that came in the loft for dinner. It is going to be removed from the web site ASAP.

Warren and I were just ribbing each other. The birds haven't even been in a shipping crate yet, let alone down the road 50 miles. Please don't read any reality into it. I would hate for somebody to loose their entire youngbird team trying to copy this.

Dan


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> *......
> Naw...I checked with Bill, because even a great bunch of champs like this...a 50 Mile training toss as the first toss....seems a bit much.....
> 
> That's when I found out, that they were doing a test of the clock and the system which reports live results, and they had simply plugged in 50 miles. The boys and girls were simply doing laps around the loft. So, the first one's clocked, were the ones that must have gotten tired and went back inside to catch their breath and sip some cool water.....apparently, mine are still out there flying laps, some six hours later !....
> 
> Since Bill did not realise this "training toss" was being looked at as a toss, and not a clock and system check, they will be pulling it down ASAP !!
> 
> *


*

Yes folks....don't try this at home, we are trained professionals !!....

I posted the "50 Mile Traing Toss" and then after I thought about it, I emailed the Winners Cup and asked what they might be smokin...and then he asked...what was I smokin....and then I said what is that on the web site ?? Whoops !! It was just a test of the system !! I wrote the above post, but not everyone under stood what I said. And Bill Hatcher of the Winners Cup, sent out a flash email to all Breeders at the Cup, see below. So, I sort of jumped the gun....I'm like the racers down there...roaring to go !! Sorry for the false alarm.

Greetings breeders;

Dont be alarmed if you see a 50 mile toss on the website.......of course, there is no toss.

we wont be training for awhile yet......what you see, or saw was a practice logging by

terry who does the report system online to make sure our clock and the internet was

in full function.... anyway, it will be erased. if you see it again, its just a TEST so we

can fine tune things for this year electronically.....

thanks to those who called about it....

bill hatcher*


----------



## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yes folks....don't try this at home, we are trained professionals !!....
> 
> I posted the "50 Mile Traing Toss" and then after I thought about it, I emailed the Winners Cup and asked what they might be smokin...and then he asked...what was I smokin....and then I said what is that on the web site ?? Whoops !! It was just a test of the system !! I wrote the above post, but not everyone under stood what I said. And Bill Hatcher of the Winners Cup, sent out a flash email to all Breeders at the Cup, see below. So, I sort of jumped the gun....I'm like the racers down there...roaring to go !! Sorry for the false alarm.
> 
> *Greetings breeders;
> 
> Dont be alarmed if you see a 50 mile toss on the website.......of course, there is no toss.
> 
> we wont be training for awhile yet......what you see, or saw was a practice logging by
> 
> terry who does the report system online to make sure our clock and the internet was
> 
> in full function.... anyway, it will be erased. if you see it again, its just a TEST so we
> 
> can fine tune things for this year electronically.....
> 
> thanks to those who called about it....
> 
> bill hatcher*






well whatever it was that happened today at least i can see some improvements from the tuition fee we paid to Bill for our birds education...at least they learned how to clock in already at 6 weeks old...lol. now we'll see if me and my partner have to prepare for the exam fee otherwise known as entry fee.


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> well whatever it was that happened today at least i can see some improvements from the tuition fee we paid to Bill for our birds education...at least they learned how to clock in already at 6 weeks old...lol. now we'll see if me and my partner have to prepare for the exam fee otherwise known as entry fee.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


You better be saving up those nickles and dimes ASAP ! You can replace those birds up to a certain date, and they manage to settle a very high % and get them back from road training. 

Besides, you need to think positive....it's important for the bird's self esteem. Something about karma and the like.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*News from the Winners Cup*

I just recieved this email from the Winner's Cup ! I think most will agree that Bill Hatcher supports the One Loft system ! 

*Greetings breeders!!

The birds are fine and are settled down to a good workable exercise schedule here at the
Winnerscup. We look forward to less rain and more high pressure conditions. We have
settled on 17 hours of light for the birds and it seems to be the most optimum for us compared to the last two seasons. They moult and mature quickly under this program as
we move into the June cycle.

In this economy, we have opted to post some of the races that we are supporting. If there is a race left out (and there are many) its because we either dont have the number of birds
nor money to support more, but we would if we could.

Holiday cup, San Diego, California Classic, Triple Crown, Mercedes Classic, The Texas
Gusher, Charm city, Midwest one loft , Sierra Classic (new), World of Wings Truck Race,
San Diego Classic....... with this, we are pretty much tapped out!! Surely on behalf of all
races in t his economy, once again to acknowledge YOU breeders, a huge thanks for 
putting for the your effort to continually support the one loft race game here in America.

I will keep you posted...

bill hatcher*


----------



## Big T

Dan, if I didn't know better, you have become the son Warren didn't know he had. That man shore can brag about you. LOL

Congrads, you earned it. We all read your posts and watched you grow in knowledge and experience. As your mentor Warren has every right to brag. I wish you both success and joy.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## learning

Big T said:


> Dan, if I didn't know better, you have become the son Warren didn't know he had. That man shore can brag about you. LOL
> 
> Congrads, you earned it. We all read your posts and watched you grow in knowledge and experience. As your mentor Warren has every right to brag. I wish you both success and joy.
> 
> God Bless,
> Tony


Thank you Tony. Warren has been everything someone could want and more in a mentor. His knowledge and genuine interest in seeing me succeed has been a much needed source of confidence and security for me as I have struggled, just like everyone else, in learning the ropes of this sport. I have tried very hard to keep this a two way street and hopefully he has gained or will gain as much or more from our relationship as I have.

I can't say enough positive things about Warren and I am pretty sure there are a lot more people out there that have gained from his guidance.

Dan


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Ahh....Shucks !!! 

I guess I am proud of the young Jedi ! 

Since he is a school teacher, he is teachable. Not, everyone is. Some become "Experts" inside a short period of time, and then want to give you lessons. Had some of them in our club this last year. They typically burn out real quick, since they normally don't stick to anything for real long. 

Dan here, will outlive me, and at some point, out fly me. It's not a matter of "IF" but "When". He already has more skill and understanding, then many fanciers with many more years under their belts. You just wait and see. It just not better be this year, in the Winners Cup !!!!!


----------



## learning

Thanks Warren, I am truly flattered.

If, by some miracle, I do manage to do well at the Winners Cup this year it is only because of the great advice and incredible birds I obtained from him. All I did was put them together and let nature take its course.

Dan


----------



## Big T

Do you two need a room, PLEASE, all this sucking up is making me sick!!!! LOL
Ya'll stop talking and let your birds do it for you.

Dan, I'm sorry but I am a big fan of Ace's and Warren's Wife's birds.

Good Luck and best wishes,
Tony


----------



## learning

Big T said:


> Do you two need a room, PLEASE, all this sucking up is making me sick!!!! LOL
> Ya'll stop talking and let your birds do it for you.
> 
> Dan, I'm sorry but I am a big fan of Ace's and Warren's Wife's birds.
> 
> Good Luck and best wishes,
> Tony


It's only sucking up if it isn't true!

Dan


----------



## mr squeaks

Big T said:


> Do you two need a room, PLEASE, all this sucking up is making me sick!!!! LOL
> Ya'll stop talking and let your birds do it for you.
> 
> Dan, I'm sorry but I am a big fan of Ace's and Warren's Wife's birds.
> 
> Good Luck and best wishes,
> Tony


ROFL, Tony!!  

All the sucking up is lots of fun...for me, that is...could they wait awhile before getting a room??

ALL THE BEST TO YOU RACERS!! 

Shi 

...and Mr. Squeaks, whose racing career was cut tragically short by a badly broken wing. I just KNOW, with his _attitude_, he would have been a WINNER!


----------



## Big T

learning said:


> It's only sucking up if it isn't true!
> 
> Dan


Good point, and you are right. It is true, but also a little funny. 

Keep flying,
Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*Message From Winners Cup Bill Hatcher !*

Wanted to share this news report I got today. There was a shipment of birds which had gotten lost by the Post Office and the poor birds had taken a major detour. 

Good news is all worked out OK, and Bill was on the scene giving them expert care ! 


*Greetings to all;

Its with great pleasure I bring you a happy ending to the 7 birds shipped to us spending 5 days in the box. On arrival at the post office early Monday morning to retrieve the birds, I opened the box in front of the Postal people so they could witness a possible problem. On opening the box, everyone was amazed the birds were alive and absolutely looking great.
Postal people cant tell the difference between ' looking great' and just " alive ". But there was not a dry eye in the group, the body weight was there, there was no emaciated bird and no bile.................go figure?

On taking the birds out to my vehicle, I had already prepared a whole milk/honey solution and forced each bird on the spot with my plunger before heading home. I let the owner know the situation and at first he was skeptical (who wouldn't be?) I placed the birds in
a separate section with feed and water and they immediately, yes immediately flew out to the landing board into the sun and basked as if nothing was even detrimental....wow.

Luckily, the owner doesn't have to pay up front entry fees, just a perch, so if there is any damage unseen to the naked eye, we will see when training begins. But I will keep close track and let you all know down the road how these entries faire against the rest of the pack.
We could be surprised........

We soon will be taking down the temporary aviaries. At that time we will activate the Cup
Internet Camera. This is a good time for you to "dial in" getting your computers to view the loft and birds flying, way ahead of race time. The cams wont be on each day, but we will
alert you as to when they will be on a day a head of time. Thanks for your support this year, a year whereby many lofts are not running to full capacity. Hopefully, things will settle
down with the economy........................that is yet to be seen.

We are just about finished sending birds out for the year. Just a few more to complete out
our San Diego entries and we are done. At this time we would like to pay tribute to a 
relatively new one loft racer who stormed onto the scene last year..........Bill Tadlock.
Mr. Tadlock has sent many many pigeons out to many races this year. With some people cutting back, I know that many managers are appreciative of Bills entries. We also are
appreciative to many of you who year in and year out send teams and multiple teams. 
We don't want to overlook those breeders who are responsible for the success of one loft racing
here in the USA.

Thanks again , we will keep you posted.

Bill Hatcher *


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^

Wow must b a really great race like you have said I myself sent to some races haven't hurred noffin at all!! Again good luck yallz.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*Aquamax 400----------Dont breed without it !!*

OK Bill,

Not sure why "we" should share some of our best "secrets" with the world at large, as someday some of my competitors may find this post. But, in the interest of showing our readers here at Pigeon Talk why the WINNERS CUP is setting the gold standard in terms of care and nutrition for the Champions at the Winners Cup One Loft Race, I will share your "secrets". I know first hand how fantastic my birds looked when they were returned from the Cup last year, so I know you are doing something extra special in terms of their care, that they have not gotten at other events. Perhaps in order to retain more of the perch fee's for themselves ? I know I appreciate all that you do in order to get and keep the birds in outstanding health, so that on race days, the best bred birds can do their best.

Thank you for sharing. 

Warren


*Aquamax 400----------Dont breed without it !!

Hi Warren;

Just a short note on this great Purina product. With high dollars spent by Purina on research, I have been advocating the use of Aquamax 500 for a long time for the breeding
pen, fed to the breeders in a separate cup.
This year, suddenly it became difficult to get, the 500. 500 denotes the size of this super
black pellet. Since they only had the '400' size in stock, I opted for that. Its just a tad lower in protein, but the huge difference was the size of this amazing pellet. Its about the size of and looks like Rape seed. When you take it in hand, you can feel the omega 3 just oozing out of it, but yet its dry.......
The birds tell the real story here. The pellet is more efficient to feed with less spillage and waste. As for the birds? Well, they show me that they much prefer this size to the 500 and use it freely on the babies in particular during the first 3 weeks of growth.

I have many pigeon fanciers who have now turned to this pellet only to email me/call me and tell me that they are 'hooked' on the pellet. Why? They realized that the overall all optimum
performance of their team of birds greatly improved. Bill Nesler in California won 21k down at the Holiday Cup in San Diego with two in the top 10 drop and winning the average
speed for 3 races there. He cites the use of Aquamax for his victory combined with super
bred bloodlines of course. But Bill only began using aquamax after I moved from California to Oklahoma. He had seen the results of it when we teamed up to win Two Triple Crowns
in a row in San Diego.

Another notable fancier who swears by it is George in Texas known as APC loft. Just look at his wins last year........George goes so far as to grind it into a powder and use it that way on the birds feed.......he also is a believer in spirulina.

Ok for now Warren, just keeping this short so that your readers can make improvements to
their own crop of Ybs in the future....

In the sport,

Bill Hatcher*


----------



## spirit wings

oh boy! I just so happen to have a purina dealer here.... I don't count though as Im not competing, always looking for what may be a good thing for my birds. thanks for sharing.


----------



## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OK Bill,
> 
> Not sure why "we" should share some of our best "secrets" with the world at large, as someday some of my competitors may find this post. But, in the interest of showing our readers here at Pigeon Talk why the WINNERS CUP is setting the gold standard in terms of care and nutrition for the Champions at the Winners Cup One Loft Race, I will share your "secrets". I know first hand how fantastic my birds looked when they were returned from the Cup last year, so I know you are doing something extra special in terms of their care, that they have not gotten at other events. Perhaps in order to retain more of the perch fee's for themselves ? I know I appreciate all that you do in order to get and keep the birds in outstanding health, so that on race days, the best bred birds can do their best.
> 
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> Warren



thanks for sharing warren!

and to make things easier finding a supplier close to your place here's a locator link. just enter your zipcode. i found one about 5 miles from my place.

http://aquamax.purinamills.com/


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## fastpitch dad

Did I read that correctly...45% protein-16% fat-3% fiber


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## [MN]eXist^_^

Can I feed this to my ybs right now? Or just the Breeders?


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## learning

fastpitch dad said:


> Did I read that correctly...45% protein-16% fat-3% fiber


Yep, you read it right. The birds will eat it as needed and mine seem to love it. I have been using this product all year in the breeding pen and the babies have had access to it from day one. I have been thrilled with the results.

The one drawback...every time I open the container that has the aquamax in it, the loft smells like a fish market the rest of the day!

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Bill dropped us another update, for those following the Cup this year. 

*6/16/2009* 

*Dear Breeders;

just a short note on happenings at the Cup. The birds are excercising very well and good
health abounds. We are dismantling the temporary aviary as we speak. Once its down
we will begin activating the loft camera. 

We ordered new feeders for the birds and will get them this week. Our feed formula is still the same and the price so far is holding per bag...(14.60) The group was recently treated
for respiratory and Tricho. This humid rainy/heat weather promotes the one eye colds and
respiratory so we are on it. From here out, we should have a lot drier weather and since
the birds will race in the winds..........we allow them to fly in it. 

We appreciate your participation and support. 

Bill*


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## RodSD

The aquamax pellet to me is no secret because it has been on the internet for a long time. People use game pellets as well. I use chicken layer pellets. LOL! The only problem I have is that the protein concentration of those fish pellets may be too high if use for a long time. Such high concentration is bad for the liver. Chicken studies supported that along with too much calcium. I suppose such high concentration is fine initially for couple of years and then when the birds get older, they wont able to process those high protein fast enough causing toxicity in their bodies.


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## Big T

RodSD said:


> The aquamax pellet to me is no secret because it has been on the internet for a long time. People use game pellets as well. I use chicken layer pellets. LOL! The only problem I have is that the protein concentration of those fish pellets may be too high if use for a long time. Such high concentration is bad for the liver. Chicken studies supported that along with too much calcium. I suppose such high concentration is fine initially for couple of years and *then when the birds get older, they wont able to process those high protein fast enough causing toxicity in their bodies*.


*So this is why I'm not allow red meat!!!!!*


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## SmithFamilyLoft

RodSD said:


> The aquamax pellet to me is no secret because it has been on the internet for a long time. People use game pellets as well. I use chicken layer pellets. LOL! The only problem I have is that the protein concentration of those fish pellets may be too high if use for a long time. Such high concentration is bad for the liver. Chicken studies supported that along with too much calcium. I suppose such high concentration is fine initially for couple of years and then when the birds get older, they wont able to process those high protein fast enough causing toxicity in their bodies.


 The "secret" is not in the product, or the tool itself, a scapel does not make one a surgeon. It is how, when and why it is to be used. 

The fact that people use game pellets and chicken layer pellets, and read chicken studies, is evidence that many fanciers still don't have a clue as to what they are doing, or why. 

I came to the conclusion, that if I want "average results" then just keep doing what the "average fancier" does, and there is a good chance I would reach that level with some work. Good chance a fair amount of the information is out there some place on the Internet. 

But, in the example of the scapel and a surgeon, I doubt the surgeon learned his craft from the Internet. He learned it from on the job training, and from other surgeons. Well, in this real life example, you had a skilled surgeon share one of his tools with you, and you pointed to the chain saw in your garage. I suspect he won't bother to share with you how he applies this tool, but will allow you to experiment for a few more years with the tools you already have.


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## learning

Well, in the "for what it's worth" category, I have been using this tool this year and I have seen dramatic results. The difference between this year's young bird crop and last years is very much noticable. 

I have by no means perfected the use of this tool but I am convinced that it can, and has, made a big difference for me. We'll see how it all plays out over time.

Dan


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## RodSD

Warren,

I am at lost at what you are trying to say. The analogy is a little too deep for me. Surgeon learned in many ways (including internet search for new techniques),and doing it in real scenario along with their teachers. Sometimes they let go of scalpel and use laser or even powered tool (chain saw analogy?) to open something up.

When I read about the pellet stuff I was not surprised so to me it was not a secret. I thought it was well known! The way he uses that tool probably can be a secret. I don't mind if he doesn't share his secrets to me. I can do my own research. But I will not discredit him. In fact I should thank him instead for telling his secrets. I hope you are not getting the impression that I am discrediting him! Or insulting his mastery or skill! I am not. If I made such impression, I apologize!

Some surgeons learning in the new way: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1356440


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

RodSD said:


> Warren,
> 
> I am at lost at what you are trying to say. The analogy is a little too deep for me. Surgeon learned in many ways (including internet search for new techniques),and doing it in real scenario along with their teachers. Sometimes they let go of scalpel and use laser or even powered tool (chain saw analogy?) to open something up.
> 
> When I read about the pellet stuff I was not surprised so to me it was not a secret. I thought it was well known! The way he uses that tool probably can be a secret. I don't mind if he doesn't share his secrets to me. I can do my own research. But I will not discredit him. In fact I should thank him instead for telling his secrets. I hope you are not getting the impression that I am discrediting him! Or insulting his mastery or skill! I am not. If I made such impression, I apologize!
> 
> Some surgeons learning in the new way: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1356440


Perhaps the two or more episodes of "House" I watch on TV every night is having an impact on my analogies and my writing style ? I am not even sure my 
point was, or is relevant. 

I was just struck by the fact, that when a successful breeder of One Loft Race Winners and manager of a major One Loft event, shares his successful use of a feed item with YB's, that it was dismissed so easily. and sort of told...."Heck, that ain't no secret, I read that on Internet ".

I guess I was just a little embarrassed for all of us. It's different posting on a site like here at PT, and what one would say if you were at a meeting, and the guest is introduced to you face to face. I guess I felt more like the successful guy came to one of our club meeting's in order to share some of the things he has found successful, and one of our members stands up and says, "Your not telling us any secrets, everything you told us so far, could be found on the Internet....so what's the Big Deal" ? 

Not exactly what you said, or how you may have came across, but that is how it struck me. So, I guess I am suppose to let him know, not to share anything going forward, unless it is New, a Secret, and has never been posted anywhere on the Internet ? 

I am sure, that would be an exaggeration, and maybe I should have just left it go. But I have not found on the Internet how he used this product, which brought about the results he produced. Product is not new, people using it is not new, people using it and getting some extraordinary results....to me that is new. So, what, when, where, why, how much etc. those are the questions I would have liked to have known. If it's listed somewhere on the Internet, then please share with me, how exactly is he using this product ?

I know people feed chicken pellets, game pellets, etc. but I have not heard any rave reviews that chicken pellets are producing extraordinary results.


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## RodSD

Warren,

Ok. I see it now. It is how I came across. My bad then. I don't remember where I got my info, but I research a lot--not just reading what internet articles are, but also scientific articles. I initially investigated pellet stuff because back in the lab we feed those animals with them. So I was curious about this pellet stuff. I mentioned about my chicken pellet stuff because I didn't want to use those very high concentrated pellets such aquamax.

Feeding high protein is probably not new. The British old school fanciers feed their birds beans. Some may still do it. My observation is that feeding pellets with high concentration of protein does help squab growth.

I apologize to you, to Bill, or to others for assumed dismissing his claims. It might have been my scientific training to dismiss things easily. No, he can share any knowledge that he wants to share--new, old, secret or not secret. No one will stop him. I am more than willing to know.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Thank you ProPigeon Loft for sharing that. 

I suspect that the perfect and ideal diet for our pigeons has yet to be discovered. Perhaps this use of fish pellets has uncovered the fact that our current seeds we feed, do not provide the same nutrition as perhaps they once did ? All I know, is that when my birds were returned from the Winners Cup last year, they were in exceptional perfect health. I had asked Bill Hatcher of the Winners Cup what he might be doing differently then the other One Loft events. The Aquamax Pellets may not be the total answer, but it was information that I certainly appreciated, and may provide at least part of the explanation for the Super Health of the birds.


----------



## RodSD

Thank you for sharing that info ProPigeonLoft. Yes, squabs do well with high protein. It does make sense because they need lots of protein because they are growing up very fast.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Thanks for posting that ProPigeon !

How did you manage to get on that publication list ?!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Ive been on his email distro for about 3 years now; I've sent birds since he started with the WinnersCup.
> 
> I'm excited about this years races, I have a team in the Cup race and 2 in the ABC race.
> 
> Warren, what other races are you in this year? Flamingo?


HOLY COW ProPigeon Loft !! 

The name ProPigeon fits your situation. By any definition, you are a professional breeder and a veteran of the One Loft Races. 

We now are starting to get a nice group on this thread, who are "competitors" at the CUP this year ! This could turn out to be very interesting indeed ! 

My bird won 6th Place Average Speed last year in the Pennsylvania Dutch Classic One Loft Race, and won in the money, but for 2009 and this economic environment, we decided to go with only two very special race venues this year.

First of all, we would like to win another 1st Place Win an unprecedented 3 times in a row at bat, in the prestigious 350 Mile event they hold at the Flamingo International Challenge, (sat out 2008 because of unresolved health certicate issue with Flamingo vs. State of Florida, now resolved) and of course, be in the Winner's Circle of the Gold Standard...the CUP, again this year. I must confess, that without syndication and Affliate type sponsership, I would not have been able to ship as large a team to either event. I have this nasty habit of buying birds from this fellow I know in Holland. And it sort of crimped my race schedule this year. And then again, unlike many of my professional competitors, I don't actually produce that many World Class pigeons. If I can produce a dozen of really exceptional YB's every season, I should be tickled pink ! 

If my wife's picks don't pan out for us this year at the CUP, I hope at least someone who has posted on this site, takes home some of the gold ! 
And since I don't have a bird in the ABC race this year, I hope you win it ! And then sell me some of the offspring !!


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## learning

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Haha! -Many confuse the name with me trying to say I'm a professional breeder. I actually get emails from people asking why I think I can call myself that. -think of it as "ProLife", except we are "ProPigeon"...if that makes sense .
> 
> I'm 27 years old and have been racing competitively, locally and nationwide, at the one loft races for the last 5 years.
> 
> My biggest wins have been back to back (07, 08) eq. 1st finishes (330 miles), 6th 400 mile Jackpot race, in the Vegas Classic with 4th overall, best of the best, in 07 (You can see both of these birds on my profile picture gallery. I lost this years winner at auction to Jamie Lipsett of Gold Coast Loft California for $1900. I didn't enter this year because I ran out of birds!
> 
> Good luck this year at the cup and the Flamingo races, I plan on entering that race next year (I had the same problem with the Florida shipping issue).


Hi Joel and Welcome!

I just wanted to chime in and and welcome you to this site. Like Warren said, it is great to have another one loft competitor on the site. I too have birds in the Winners Cup. This is my first venture into playing with the big boys and I am excited to see how it all plays out. Good luck to you and if I can't be successful this year, I sure hope someone from this site is!

By the way, I enjoyed viewing your website.

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Another Winner's Cup Update !*

Greetings breeders;

Its Saturday morning and the Cup birds have the morning out today. Its been nice, not too hot so the birds are now starting to really zoom. Just a short reminder that we will alert you as to when you may begin to watch the training tosses and see live results listed as well. We will wait until we get past the short preliminary tosses before posting live results.

If you havent dialed in your computer to see the live camera / better get it done soon...

should you have any issues, call me and I will help you out with it.....otherwise the instructions on the cup website explain it all quite clearly.

We will make sure that you know how your birds are doing in training. You will know when to send funds and for what birds in plenty of time before the races begin. Dont worry.

Larrys going to haul the birds to the races and I will be doing the training. thanks for your
kind support.

bill hatcher


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Feeding Update....*

With the moult pretty much getting over now and with initial training to start in two weeks, we have begun to change the feed. We have cut the feed down some with regards to the peas
and protein in general. The changeover will be complete in 3 days. The ramping up of
carbohydrates is now necessary since we want more time in the air and also daily training
schedules coming up.

During training we will as in the past utilize liquoid glucosamine chondroitin mixed into the
bullet waterers at the rate of 5 tbl. spoons per waterer. No visible signs of any respiratory isues; the wattles are bright white chalky and crip which I believe is the very first sign of
good health. The ABC birds will not be trained at the same time as the Winnerscup birds.

We will keep you posted.

bill...


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## SmithFamilyLoft

I spoke with Bill this AM and they have had a few tough training tosses so far. Those things happen, hopefully they will have more successful training then the Flamingo appears to be having. I have not had an opportunity to review how other One Loft events are progressing. Bill has said that in his opinion, the birds are healthier this year, then in any other previous year at the cup. Getting the birds into a great state of health and condition and ready to race, is IMHO, one of the hallmarks of good management. When I see a One loft event start with over 300 birds, and by the 300 or 350 event only have 40 or so birds left, like one particular event last year, that is in indication, in my mind at least, that the operator may not know exactly what he is doing. Perhaps some early smash race could be the blame, but if they consistently lose large numbers, I think it is time to consider changing events.

Could be just my imagination, but I have heard an awful lot of reports of lost birds this year. Perhaps my perspective has been influenced by some of my own experiences this year personally and in our club, but it is still early in the race season.


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## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I spoke with Bill this AM and they have had a few tough training tosses so far. Those things happen, hopefully they will have more successful training then the Flamingo appears to be having. I have not had an opportunity to review how other One Loft events are progressing. Bill has said that in his opinion, the birds are healthier this year, then in any other previous year at the cup. Getting the birds into a great state of health and condition and ready to race, is IMHO, one of the hallmarks of good management. When I see a One loft event start with over 300 birds, and by the 300 or 350 event only have 40 or so birds left, like one particular event last year, that is in indication, in my mind at least, that the operator may not know exactly what he is doing. Perhaps some early smash race could be the blame, but if they consistently lose large numbers, I think it is time to consider changing events.
> 
> Could be just my imagination, but I have heard an awful lot of reports of lost birds this year. Perhaps my perspective has been influenced by some of my own experiences this year personally and in our club, but it is still early in the race season.


What's a "tough" training toss? I've had one too. Lost 10 out of 20 birds. You're right.....these things DO just happen........I don't know if you even read about my bad toss or not. Just curious what you call a tough training toss?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Lovebirds said:


> What's a "tough" training toss? I've had one too. Lost 10 out of 20 birds. You're right.....these things DO just happen........I don't know if you even read about my bad toss or not. Just curious what you call a tough training toss?


 I must have missed that one....but I would say a loss of 10 from a 20 bird training toss is "tough". Now, exactly what Bill meant by "tough" I don't really know. I guess on Saturday, when an inventory is made, and we see the "Live" training results, we will see how many are still at the Cup, and what "tough" might just mean there.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Now if they only do this on race day then I will be happy !!! 

http://www.wincompanion.com/winner/clockings/raceReport.php?rid=1&skin=winner


Home Breeders Birds Races & Training NEWS 
Stations Points Archive2008 Back Login 




30 mile trainer - 30 Miles 
Station: 30 mile trainer - B Race

Race Date:2009-09-05

Release: 2009-09-05 08:45:00
Weather Release: Arrival: 

Wind at Release: Wind at Arrival: 

Temperature at Release: Temperature at Arrival: 
Lofts: 

Birds: 

Entries: 158


Pos Loft Name Pigeon Color Sex Ent Dist Arrival Speed To Win Points 
1 *SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0202-AU09-SFL BB H* 1 30.000 07:24:08 -38.848 00:00 0 
2 APC LOFT 9032-AU09-APC BB H 1 30.000 07:26:28 -38.782 02:18 0 
3 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9181-AU09-DTL BP C 1 30.000 07:26:29 -38.781 02:21 0 
4 DAVID CLAUSING 0361-AU09-CLAU BB H 1 30.000 07:27:05 -38.764 02:57 0 
4 MIKE CHAFARDON 9197-AU09-CHAF BB H 1 30.000 07:27:06 -38.764 02:57 0 
6 BILL TADLOCK 90045-IF09-BWI BB H 1 30.000 07:27:12 -38.761 03:03 0 
7 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0132-IF09-FFF BC H 1 30.000 07:27:19 -38.758 03:09 0 
8 ANTONIO / RMC LOFT 0811-AU09-SD BB H 1 30.000 07:27:54 -38.741 03:45 0 
9 TOM & INGE 0754-AU09-MTZ BC H 1 30.000 07:34:03 -38.567 09:54 0 
10 RANDY GOODPASTURE 1542-AU09-PRO BB C 1 30.000 07:34:55 -38.542 10:47 0 
11 BRIAN WILKERSON 0801-AU09-PRO DC C 1 30.000 07:35:08 -38.536 11:00 0 
12 WING-N-IT LOFT 2651-AU09-PSF BCSP C 1 30.000 07:36:07 -38.509 11:57 0 
13 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0920-AU09-CARN BB H 1 30.000 07:40:11 -38.395 16:02 0 
14 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2530-AU09-SCHE BC H 1 30.000 07:40:14 -38.393 16:06 0 
15 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9135-AU09-DTL BB H 2 30.000 07:40:53 -38.375 16:45 0 
16 WING-N-IT LOFT 0085-AU09-WING BCSP C 2 30.000 07:42:16 -38.337 18:07 0 
17 JIM TRACY LOFT 5088-AU09-COC BB H 1 30.000 07:42:22 -38.334 18:13 0 
18 BILL TADLOCK 93036-IF09-BWI BB H 2 30.000 07:46:11 -38.228 22:02 0 
19 MARIAN TALOI 9935-AU09-TVC BC H 1 30.000 07:51:42 -38.076 27:33 0 
20 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 9002-AU09-JNC BC H 1 30.000 07:51:55 -38.070 27:46 0 
20 NICK KOWALCHUK 1858-AU09-SYR BC C 1 30.000 07:51:55 -38.070 27:46 0 
22 DALTON GANG 8703-AU09-MTP GRI H 1 30.000 07:52:00 -38.068 27:51 0 
23 R AND S LOFT 9303-AU09-LLC BB H 1 30.000 07:52:07 -38.065 27:57 0 
24 ANTONIO / RMC LOFT 56989-AU09-ARPU BC H 2 30.000 07:52:13 -38.062 28:04 0 
25 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0316-AU09-TENT BB H 2 30.000 07:52:32 -38.053 28:24 0 
26 ROGER MORTVEDT 1142-AU09-SBV DC H 1 30.000 07:52:34 -38.052 28:25 0 
27 RANDY GOODPASTURE 1545-AU09-PRO DC C 2 30.000 07:53:07 -38.037 28:58 0 
28 DENNIS MARTINEN 0849-AU09-YAK BB C 1 30.000 07:53:18 -38.032 29:09 0 
29 EUGENE SANDE 16086-AU09-I BC C 1 30.000 07:53:34 -38.025 29:25 0 
30 JOHN CANTO 3058-AU09-VTKG BC H 1 30.000 07:53:55 -38.015 29:46 0 
31 CAREY TILSON 0372-AU09-TENT BC H 1 30.000 07:54:05 -38.011 29:55 0 
31 NICK KOWALCHUK 1852-AU09-SYR BC C 2 30.000 07:54:05 -38.011 29:55 0 
33 BILL TADLOCK 90044-IF09-BWI BB H 3 30.000 07:54:38 -37.996 30:28 0 
34 TOM & INGE 1738-AU09-TCH BB C 2 30.000 07:54:47 -37.992 30:37 0 
35 WING-N-IT LOFT 0055-AU09-WING BCWF H 3 30.000 07:54:50 -37.990 30:42 0 
36 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 9036-AU09-JNC DCWF H 3 30.000 07:54:54 -37.988 30:46 0 
37 MIKE CHAFARDON 9164-AU09-CHAF BWF H 2 30.000 07:55:00 -37.986 30:50 0 
37 RANDY GOODPASTURE 1546-AU09-PRO BB H 3 30.000 07:54:59 -37.986 30:50 0 
39 DAVID CLAUSING 0349-AU09-CLAU SMBB C 2 30.000 07:55:04 -37.984 30:55 0 
40 CAREY TILSON 0323-AU09-TENT BC H 2 30.000 07:55:10 -37.981 31:01 0 
41 LONE STAR LOFT 0714-AU09-DEN BWF H 1 30.000 07:55:12 -37.980 31:03 0 
42 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0675-IF09-FFF DC C 4 30.000 07:55:29 -37.972 31:21 0 
43 CBS PIGEON 1498-AU09-CBS BWF C 1 30.000 07:55:34 -37.970 31:25 0 
44 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0137-AU09-HUT BB H 1 30.000 07:55:36 -37.969 31:27 0 
44 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0020-AU09-SFL BB H 2 30.000 07:55:37 -37.969 31:27 0 
46 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0118-AU09-HUT BB H 2 30.000 07:55:45 -37.965 31:36 0 
47 CBS PIGEON 1497-AU09-CBS BC H 2 30.000 07:55:48 -37.964 31:39 0 
48 BILL TADLOCK 90036-IF09-BWI BB H 4 30.000 07:58:42 -37.885 34:33 0 
49 BILL RIXEY 0026-AU09-RIXY BWF H 1 30.000 08:03:27 -37.756 39:18 0 
50 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9285-AU09-PUEB BCWF H 1 30.000 08:04:10 -37.737 40:00 0 
51 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0129-IF09-FFF BC H 2 30.000 08:05:50 -37.692 41:40 0 
52 WALSTON/TILSON 1005-AU09-GL DCPD H 1 30.000 08:09:22 -37.597 45:13 0 
53 ANTONIO / RMC LOFT 0802-AU09-SD BB H 3 30.000 08:09:46 -37.586 45:38 0 
54 DAVE HARRETT 3128-AU09-JEDD BC C 1 30.000 08:10:22 -37.570 46:13 0 
55 MARK TEAL 9600-AU09-ADA BB H 1 30.000 08:11:02 -37.552 46:54 0 
56 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0959-AU09-CARN BB H 2 30.000 08:11:33 -37.539 47:23 0 
57 LONE STAR LOFT 0712-AU09-DEN BC H 2 30.000 08:11:53 -37.530 47:43 0 
58 APC LOFT 9034-AU09-APC BB H 2 30.000 08:11:55 -37.529 47:46 0 
59 WING-N-IT LOFT 0053-AU09-WING BB H 4 30.000 08:15:58 -37.421 51:49 0 
60 R AND S LOFT 9307-AU09-LLC BCH H 2 30.000 08:16:13 -37.415 52:03 0 
61 9 POINTS RACING/ SFL 0167-AU09-9PTS BB H 1 30.000 08:16:30 -37.407 52:21 0 
62 BILL TADLOCK 93039-IF09-BWI BC H 5 30.000 08:16:49 -37.399 52:39 0 
63 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2531-AU09-SCHE BC H 2 30.000 08:17:07 -37.391 52:57 0 
64 EL DORADO 5073-AU09-TEXS BCWF H 1 30.000 08:17:37 -37.377 53:29 0 
65 NICK KOWALCHUK 1815-AU09-SYR BC H 3 30.000 08:18:55 -37.343 54:46 0 
66 UTOPIAN LOFT 2127-AU09-UTPN BB H 1 30.000 08:19:41 -37.323 55:31 0 
67 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3716-AU09-FVC BWF H 1 30.000 08:21:50 -37.266 57:42 0 
68 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0315-AU09-TENT BB H 5 30.000 08:25:55 -37.159 61:46 0 
69 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0108-AU09-TSL BC H 1 30.000 08:26:07 -37.154 61:58 0 
70 UTOPIAN LOFT 2147-AU09-UTPN BB H 2 30.000 08:26:20 -37.148 62:12 0 
71 MARIAN TALOI 9981-AU09-TVC BC C 2 30.000 08:27:35 -37.116 63:25 0 
72 DAVID CLAUSING 0367-AU09-CLAU SIL H 3 30.000 08:28:06 -37.102 63:57 0 
73 MIKE CHAFARDON 9172-AU09-CHAF BB H 3 30.000 08:29:27 -37.067 65:18 0 
74 JOHN CANTO 3102-AU09-VTKG BC H 2 30.000 08:30:16 -37.046 66:06 0 
75 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0121-AU09-HUT SIL H 3 30.000 08:30:32 -37.039 66:22 0 
76 RANDY GOODPASTURE 1544-AU09-PRO DC H 4 30.000 08:32:02 -37.000 67:52 0 
77 CAREY TILSON 0373-AU09-TENT BC C 3 30.000 08:32:20 -36.992 68:11 0 
78 GENE TENBRINK 0173-AU09-GENE DC H 1 30.000 08:34:29 -36.936 70:21 0 
78 MARIAN TALOI 9923-AU09-TVC BB H 3 30.000 08:34:29 -36.936 70:21 0 
80 MATT WIESBROCK 0590-AU09-ALCA BBPD H 1 30.000 08:36:01 -36.897 71:52 0 
81 MARTIN LIUVENT 3079-AU09-SCHE BC H 1 30.000 08:36:06 -36.895 71:56 0 
82 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9279-AU09-PUEB BB C 2 30.000 08:36:17 -36.890 72:08 0 
83 FLORIDIAN LOFT 2501-AU09-SCHE BB H 3 30.000 08:36:38 -36.881 72:29 0 
84 MIKE CHAFARDON 9179-AU09-CHAF BB C 4 30.000 08:36:41 -36.880 72:31 0 
85 SIERRA RANCH 0926-AU09-SRCH BC H 1 30.000 08:36:50 -36.876 72:40 0 
86 MARK TEAL 9609-AU09-ADA BB H 2 30.000 08:38:04 -36.844 73:55 0 
87 KEVIN L. LOFT 13913-AU09-ARPU BB H 1 30.000 08:38:38 -36.830 74:28 0 
87 MARIAN TALOI 9932-AU09-TVC BB H 4 30.000 08:38:38 -36.830 74:28 0 
89 NANEZ FAMILY LOFT 19724-AU09-JEDD BB H 1 30.000 08:39:21 -36.811 75:12 0 
90 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0226-AU09-HUT BB C 4 30.000 08:39:56 -36.796 75:48 0 
91 PROPIGEON LOFT 0602-AU09-PROP BB H 1 30.000 08:42:30 -36.730 78:22 0 
92 BILL RIXEY 0027-AU09-RIXY BBPD H 2 30.000 08:44:14 -36.686 80:06 0 
93 NICK KOWALCHUK 1859-AU09-SYR DC H 4 30.000 08:44:37 -36.676 80:29 0 
94 9 POINTS RACING/ SFL 0157-AU09-9PTS BC H 2 30.000 08:45:04 -36.665 80:55 0 
95 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22688-AU09-JEDD BB H 1 30.000 08:45:40 -36.650 81:30 0 
96 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3715-AU09-FVC BC H 2 30.000 08:45:42 -36.649 81:33 0 
97 DAVE HARRETT 3123-AU09-JEDD BB H 2 30.000 08:46:00 -36.641 81:52 0 
98 BRIAN WILKERSON 0864-AU09-PRO BB H 2 30.000 08:46:05 -36.639 81:56 0 
99 BILL TADLOCK 93034-IF09-BWI BBPD H 6 30.000 08:46:20 -36.633 82:10 0 
100 UTOPIAN LOFT 2089-AU09-UTPN BC H 3 30.000 08:46:23 -36.631 82:15 0 
101 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9144-AU09-DTL BB H 3 30.000 08:46:33 -36.627 82:25 0 
102 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0107-AU09-TSL GRIZ H 2 30.000 08:48:13 -36.585 84:04 0 
103 MARTIN LIUVENT 3040-AU09-SCHE BC C 2 30.000 08:48:38 -36.574 84:30 0 
104 DENNIS MARTINEN 0843-AU09-YAK BC H 2 30.000 08:49:26 -36.554 85:18 0 
105 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22687-AU09-JEDD BWF H 2 30.000 08:49:42 -36.547 85:34 0 
106 JOHN CANTO 3047-AU09-VTKG RC H 3 30.000 08:50:17 -36.533 86:07 0 
107 9 POINTS RACING/ SFL 0165-AU09-9PTS SIL H 3 30.000 08:50:18 -36.532 86:09 0 
108 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0965-AU09-SRCH BB C 3 30.000 08:50:39 -36.523 86:31 0 
109 NESLER BOYS 1927-AU09-TCH BB C 1 30.000 08:52:01 -36.489 87:52 0 
110 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0201-AU09-HUTC BB H 5 30.000 08:52:24 -36.479 88:15 0 
111 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22683-AU09-JEDD BB H 3 30.000 08:52:30 -36.477 88:20 0 
112 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0944-AU09-SRCH BB H 4 30.000 08:52:37 -36.474 88:27 0 
113 NESLER BOYS 1946-AU09-TCH SILV H 2 30.000 08:52:42 -36.472 88:32 0 
114 NANEZ FAMILY LOFT 19626-AU09-JEDD BB C 2 30.000 08:53:38 -36.448 89:30 0 
115 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3718-AU09-FVC DCPD H 3 30.000 08:56:18 -36.381 92:09 0 
116 IRISH SYNDICATE 0252-AU09-IRSH BB H 1 30.000 08:56:49 -36.368 92:40 0 
117 R AND S LOFT 9312-AU09-LLC BCWF H 3 30.000 08:56:57 -36.365 92:48 0 
118 SIERRA RANCH 0935-AU09-SRCH BB H 2 30.000 08:57:08 -36.360 93:00 0 
119 KEVIN L. LOFT 13909-AU09-ARPU BC H 2 30.000 08:57:53 -36.342 93:43 0 
120 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9211-AU09-PUEB BB H 3 30.000 08:58:15 -36.332 94:07 0 
121 MARK TEAL 9625-AU09-ADA BB H 3 30.000 08:58:41 -36.322 94:31 0 
122 NICK KOWALCHUK 1828-AU09-SYR BC H 5 30.000 08:59:04 -36.312 94:55 0 
123 DAVID CLAUSING 0365-AU09-CLAU BB C 4 30.000 08:59:19 -36.306 95:09 0 

etc. etc. etc.




powered by


----------



## Guest

see your wife can pick good birds


----------



## Lovebirds

Cool. Am I reading right? 257 birds entered? 158 birds listed on this toss? Almost 100 birds missing? Was that his "tough" toss? Sounds more like a disaster to me.  I feel for him, that's for sure.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

LokotaLoft said:


> see your wife can pick good birds


I picked the one's for the Flamingo...and you can see how that worked out so far..... I guess I will let her pick some more going forward, but I'm not going to broadcast it anymore in the future. It just don't seem natural or manly. It just must have been some sort of fluke or something.....


----------



## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I picked the one's for the Flamingo...and you can see how that worked out so far..... I guess I will let her pick some more going forward, but I'm not going to broadcast it anymore in the future. It just don't seem natural or manly. It just must have been some sort of fluke or something.....



Not a fluke........it's a woman's intuition........won't work out the same if you don't give credit where credit's due..............
You best let her do the pickin' then shout it from the mountain tops!!!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Lovebirds said:


> Cool. Am I reading right? 257 birds entered? 158 birds listed on this toss? Almost 100 birds missing? Was that his "tough" toss? Sounds more like a disaster to me.  I feel for him, that's for sure.


 I think the 257 number represents the total number of birds shipped to the Cup. And the 158 represents the number which has returned from the toss....so far. How many got lost off the landing board, or in previous tosses, or not back yet, must explain the difference in the inventory. 

I noticed a local one loft event here, the Pa. Dutch Classic http://www.wincompanion.com/pad/birds/listBirds.php took in 113 and so far in training they are down to less then half of what they started with. The Flamingo has not even begun road training from what I can tell, and they seem to have an awful lot of missing pigeons, considering the birds have yet to begin training. http://www.flamingoic.com/index.php...Birds&SYS_Content_anzahl=&SYS_Content_index=0

I have yet to find the time to review other events to see what their inventory looks like so far, but it just seems higher then in last years. I like to measure the percentage of birds which actually make it through to the 300 or 350 mile race. There was a good post on a thread here which measured such things. 

I suspect that a major difference between flying your birds out of your home loft, and from a One Loft event. Is that you need to breed a bird which can endure and survive, even when the loft and management may be good, bad, or indifferent. But if an event consistently demonstrates that they can't get most of them to the 1st race, relative to other events, then you have to consider what is in the best interests of your birds. May not even be the fault of the management. If it is a bad loft, in a bad location, or where dozens of hawks hang out, then they simply are not equipped or situated to run such a business. 

So far, my confidence in the running of the Cup is very high. I am not real happy to see lost birds at this point, but everyone I know has lost some birds this year, and I have had my own share of losses this year, which I am not very happy about either. I'm not the type to cry in my beer, but my percentage of losses this year in my "experimental" team, would make the losses at the Cup look very good.

I guess I am just going to have to consult my wife Karen as to which birds she thinks are ready to race, or go on tosses, etc. just a wee bit more...

Problem is, half the time, she does not even like the idea of sending them away for fear they might get lost. Once she asked..."What if the birdie get's lost ?" I said, then Lew and I will go out in our cars and go look for them and guide them back home.  That seemed like a perfectly acceptable plan to her, and I am not telling her any different. I never share with her any more when there are losses, less she get upset, and sends me out to drive around and look for it.


----------



## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now if they only do this on race day then I will be happy !!!



my bird (#8) came in about 4 min after your #1 bird. at least i'm not that worried anymore about compromised health due to their delayed shipment by the USPS. i hope they perform better in the actual race.

goodluck to everyone in the cup.


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


----------



## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Problem is, half the time, she does not even like the idea of sending them away for fear they might get lost. Once she asked..."What if the birdie get's lost ?" I said, then Lew and I will go out in our cars and go look for them and guide them back home.  That seemed like a perfectly acceptable plan to her, and I am not telling her any different. I never share with her any more when there are losses, less she get upset, and sends me out to drive around and look for it.


Could I have your phone number please? I need to speak with your wife.................


----------



## Guest

Lovebirds said:


> Could I have your phone number please? I need to speak with your wife.................


lol i dont think he will for fear that you might tell her all his little secrets


----------



## Guest

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think the 257 number represents the total number of birds shipped to the Cup. And the 158 represents the number which has returned from the toss....so far. How many got lost off the landing board, or in previous tosses, or not back yet, must explain the difference in the inventory.
> 
> I noticed a local one loft event here, the Pa. Dutch Classic http://www.wincompanion.com/pad/birds/listBirds.php took in 113 and so far in training they are down to less then half of what they started with. The Flamingo has not even begun road training from what I can tell, and they seem to have an awful lot of missing pigeons, considering the birds have yet to begin training. http://www.flamingoic.com/index.php...Birds&SYS_Content_anzahl=&SYS_Content_index=0
> 
> I have yet to find the time to review other events to see what their inventory looks like so far, but it just seems higher then in last years. I like to measure the percentage of birds which actually make it through to the 300 or 350 mile race. There was a good post on a thread here which measured such things.
> 
> I suspect that a major difference between flying your birds out of your home loft, and from a One Loft event. Is that you need to breed a bird which can endure and survive, even when the loft and management may be good, bad, or indifferent. But if an event consistently demonstrates that they can't get most of them to the 1st race, relative to other events, then you have to consider what is in the best interests of your birds. May not even be the fault of the management. If it is a bad loft, in a bad location, or where dozens of hawks hang out, then they simply are not equipped or situated to run such a business.
> 
> So far, my confidence in the running of the Cup is very high. I am not real happy to see lost birds at this point, but everyone I know has lost some birds this year, and I have had my own share of losses this year, which I am not very happy about either. I'm not the type to cry in my beer, but my percentage of losses this year in my "experimental" team, would make the losses at the Cup look very good.
> I guess I am just going to have to consult my wife Karen as to which birds she thinks are ready to race, or go on tosses, etc. just a wee bit more...
> 
> Problem is, half the time, she does not even like the idea of sending them away for fear they might get lost. Once she asked..."What if the birdie get's lost ?" I said, then Lew and I will go out in our cars and go look for them and guide them back home.  That seemed like a perfectly acceptable plan to her, and I am not telling her any different. I never share with her any more when there are losses, less she get upset, and sends me out to drive around and look for it.


 perhaps a little hops and barley got into your race mix and they went a little to far off course ... still Im very sorry to hear about everyones losses this year ..seems we need a new breed of pigeon every year now to take on whatever is throwing their natural homing instincts off course..I mean what if the magnetic pulls are shifting, ya never know ... well the only other thing left to blame it on is aliens


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> my bird (#8) came in about 4 min after your #1 bird. at least i'm not that worried anymore about compromised health due to their delayed shipment by the USPS. i hope they perform better in the actual race.
> 
> goodluck to everyone in the cup.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


ANTONIO / RMC LOFT 

Is this you ?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Lovebirds said:


> Could I have your phone number please? I need to speak with your wife.................


No...No....No....!!!!

Not a chance....I only shared this on here, because she never goes onto the computer. Now some of the things we say on here...should be like...like....Vegas !!! What happens on here, stays on here !!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Ahhhhh Geeeezeeee !!

You went a blew the one bright spot of my day for me....

In that case, the last bird in might be the real winner today.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Sorry, just wanted to make sure you knew...


Well...I do now. Hopefully there will be some around for the races so I have something to look forward to.


----------



## kalapati

*another bloody training result*



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> ANTONIO / RMC LOFT
> 
> Is this you ?



that's me and my buddy richard (RMC loft: http://rmcloft.com/). my 2 entries SD802 & SD811 are so far still able to make it after another bloody 35 mile training results yesterday. about 30% of birds missing yesterday are starting to show up when i checked this morning. 

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=1&skin=winner

looks like this is going to be a tough race for everyone. CBS has only 1 bird as of yesterday and another one just came in this morning.



kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## Guest

it looks like some people we know are doing very well so far


----------



## learning

To be honest, I am starting to wonder about the fact that everyone (including The Winners Cup) seems to be having unusually high losses this year. Is this just coincidence? Many, many of my club mates including myself seem to be suffering from very high losses. It was very frustrating for me early on personally but now I am seeing that there seems to be a pattern here in other clubs as well as some of the most highly respected one loft races in the country.

Anyone have any insights as to what might be going on here...if anything? Perhaps it is all coincidental that this seems to be so widespread. Maybe there is some meteorological phenomenon going on, maybe everyone just bread inferior birds this year...who knows.

Any thought?...

Dan


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## windaidedaviary

Um, I thought it were the handlers' fault...

Didn't a lot of the "in the know" people on this board say it so?


----------



## learning

windaidedaviary said:


> Um, I thought it were the handlers' fault...
> 
> Didn't a lot of the "in the know" people on this board say it so?


If that is the only problem then there sure seem to be a lot of people out there that have been very succesful in the past that are all of the sudden suffering big losses.

Dan


----------



## irishsyndicate

Well... no use crying or finger pointing on a bad toss ... We have all had a bad toss or two. The question is what now?

I dropped 15 birds out of 120 last week from a smash at 30 miles. I shut them down (lots of rest), probiotics, and 5-in-1 for 5 days with loft flying every other day for 45 min. This week I started back up with a 10 mile, 22 mile and this morning 35 mile in 3 consecutive days with no problems.


----------



## kalapati

irishsyndicate said:


> Well... no use crying or finger pointing on a bad toss ... We have all had a bad toss or two. The question is what now?



here's some good news from bill...


Breeders;
we are up to 143 birds as of 11:am this morning. With a higher pressure system moving in and sun coming intermittently, things are improving. The birds will recover and we will go forward. I will give you another report later on in the day on other arrivals.

thanks...

bill


----------



## Guest

kalapati said:


> here's some good news from bill...
> 
> 
> Breeders;
> we are up to 143 birds as of 11:am this morning. With a higher pressure system moving in and sun coming intermittently, things are improving. The birds will recover and we will go forward. I will give you another report later on in the day on other arrivals.
> 
> thanks...
> 
> bill


how many did they start out with on the release?


----------



## rfboyer

learning said:


> Originally Posted by windaidedaviary
> Um, I thought it were the handlers' fault...
> Didn't a lot of the "in the know" people on this board say it so?
> 
> 
> 
> If that is the only problem then there sure seem to be a lot of people out there that have been very succesful in the past that are all of the sudden suffering big losses.
Click to expand...

I can see where it might be "the handlers' fault" in the races where many breeders send their birds to "boarding school" so to speak, and one flyer (or organization) trains them, but big losses have been mentioned from many of the individual lofts represented here as well. 
I almost know just enough about pigeons to get into trouble, but it seems unlikely that Ed, Renee, and the rest of you who race and have had more lost birds than normal have lost your common sense, or forgot how to train your birds. 

The folks at the local club here (West Mifflin, PA - they are part of Pgh South combine, I think) told me losses in training were worse this year than they've been; I had the sense of "years" -- most of them have been racing their birds "since god was a child."  

They seem somewhat mystified about the cause(s)...  since (as they told me) there hasn't been generally worse weather, worse BOP presence, or more sickness/weakness in general among their flocks. 

Any guesses why this year has been so bad for losses? 
Or are the possible reasons too random to parse a pattern?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

windaidedaviary said:


> Um, I thought it were the handlers' fault...
> 
> Didn't a lot of the "in the know" people on this board say it so?


 Well....let's just say for the sake of discussion, that there are two broad categories, 1) Are those circumstances where the handler has influenced the situation, such as sending a sick bird, or sending birds not in condition, or releasing them into a thunderstorm, etc.. And.... 2) those situations where the handler has no influence, such as a hawk attack, hunters with shot guns, K-Factor or sun spots, etc.

Now, since we only have theories and clues as to how the birds find their way back home, we really don't know what environmental factors may playing a role. I have always stated that since we don't know, what we don't know.....that instead of always blaming losses on some external factor, such as color TV, (which was a reasonable theory back in 1965) that we should focus on those things we can control and know. Such as having birds in condition, not sick, not releasing into very questionable weather etc. I have never suggested that it is always the handler's fault. But, if it is the handler's fault, and he is blaming it on color TV, then that is not productive either. 

So, to me, IMHO, it is a mindset. If one always blames the failures on other external factors, then the fancier is always the victim of external cicumstances or "luck". The more highly skilled fancier, somehow or other, always seems to make his or her own luck. If the fancier or his/her management has no influence on such things, well then pigeon racing would really be a matter of simple random chance. Which is the reason why I bet on the jockey at the horse track.  If there is some external thing happening out there, then we need to breed the next generation of pigeons which have been able to race home in spite of the external cause or causes. Last year's model or a model of a decade ago, just may not be able to deal with whatever may be out there. Be it natural or man made.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

For those who are following this race, basketing time is @ 7PM CST today 10-22-2009, the race is from 150 Miles. You can watch live basketing, here are the instructions if you care to watch. 

Viewing live camera

Once you are on the Winnerscup Website, click the "on air" button. This is best done
when you are on internet explorer, Firefox, Google. Aol is not that great and can be
problematic. Once you "click" on air button which is on the main page of winnerscup,
it will direct you straight to the camera "log in page".

Once there, simply type in the word user and use the word password (all in lower
case) as the password........ got it? user is user and password is password.

Then it may ask you if you wish to download (takes 5 seconds) the viewing driver
so you can see the loft. Of course you click "yes"....once it downloads, you will see
the screen. This will only occur initially one time........from then on you simply log
in and view the race.

if you get stuck or have a question? 580 235 3388

Get dialed in now even though its early, get set up so on race day you will have it
all ironed out.

thankyou,

bill hatcher


----------



## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> For those who are following this race, basketing time is @ 7PM CST today 10-22-2009, the race is from 150 Miles. You can watch live basketing, here are the instructions if you care to watch.


not bad for me on this 1st of 3 races. my 0811 was just about 36 seconds behind the 1st bird. my second bird, 0802 (nestmate of 0811) placed 11th. . 0811 has always been consistent during the training ranking either 3rd or 4th on average speed. 

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=2&skin=winner

Pos Breeder Pigeon Color Sex Ent Team Dist Arrival Speed To Win Points 
1 CAREY TILSON 0323-AU09-TENT BC H 1 1 150.031 11:55:51.0 1383.571 00:00:00 200 
2 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0131-IF09-FFF BB H 1 1 150.031 11:56:04.0 1382.002 00:00:13 198 
3 DAVID CLAUSING 0361-AU09-CLAU BB H 1 2 150.031 11:56:05.0 1381.882 00:00:13 196 
4 BANZON / ANTONIO 0811-AU09-SD BB H 1 1 150.031 11:56:28.0 1379.115 00:00:36 194 5 MARIAN TALOI 9932-AU09-TVC BB H 1 1 150.031 11:56:33.0 1378.515 00:00:41 192 
6 JOHN CANTO 3047-AU09-VTKG RC H 1 1 150.031 11:56:37.0 1378.035 00:00:46 190 
6 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22683-AU09-JEDD BB H 1 1 150.031 11:56:37.0 1378.035 00:00:46 190 
8 WING-N-IT LOFT 0055-AU09-WING BCWF H 1 2 150.031 11:56:39.0 1377.796 00:00:47 186 
9 R AND S LOFT 9307-AU09-LLC BCH H 1 1 150.031 11:56:44.0 1377.197 00:00:52 184 
10 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0132-IF09-FFF BC H 2 1 150.031 11:56:50.0 1376.479 00:00:58 182 
11 BANZON / ANTONIO 0802-AU09-SD BB H 2 1 150.031 11:58:33.0 1364.271 00:02:41 180 12 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0315-AU09-TENT BB H 1 1 150.031 11:59:29.0 1357.723 00:03:38 178 
13 SIERRA RANCH 0926-AU09-SRCH BC H 1 1 150.031 11:59:33.0 1357.258 00:03:41 176 
14 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0020-AU09-SFL BB H 1 1 150.031 11:59:34.0 1357.142 00:03:42 174 
15 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0107-AU09-TSL GRIZ H 1 1 150.031 11:59:35.0 1357.026 00:03:43 172 
16 BILL TADLOCK 93034-IF09-BWI BBPD H 1 2 150.031 11:59:36.0 1356.909 00:03:45 170 
17 CBS PIGEON 0791-AU09-CBS BB H 1 1 150.031 11:59:37.0 1356.793 00:03:45 168 
18 BILL TADLOCK 93033-IF09-BWI BWF H 2 2 150.031 11:59:40.0 1356.445 00:03:48 166 
19 SMITH FAMILY LOFT USA 0025-AU09-SFL BC H 2 1 150.031 11:59:45.0 1355.864 00:03:54 164 
20 MARK TEAL 9600-AU09-ADA BB H 1 1 150.031 11:59:48.0 1355.516 00:03:57 162 
21 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0959-AU09-CARN BB H 1 1 150.031 11:59:55.0 1354.705 00:04:03 160 
22 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3715-AU09-FVC BC H 1 1 150.031 11:59:56.0 1354.589 00:04:04 158 
23 IRISH SYNDICATE 0252-AU09-IRSH BB H 1 1 150.031 12:00:00.0 1354.126 00:04:08 156 
24 BILL RIXEY 0027-AU09-RIXY BBPD H 1 1 150.031 12:00:02.0 1353.895 00:04:10 154 
24 NESLER BOYS 1946-AU09-TCH SILV H 1 1 150.031 12:00:02.0 1353.895 00:04:10 154 
26 DALTON GANG 8703-AU09-MTP GRI H 1 1 150.031 12:00:03.0 1353.779 00:04:11 150 
27 CAREY TILSON 0374-AU09-TENT BC H 2 1 150.031 12:00:05.0 1353.548 00:04:13 148 
28 NICK KOWALCHUK 1815-AU09-SYR BC H 1 1 150.031 12:00:06.0 1353.432 00:04:14 146 
29 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0130-IF09-FFF BB H 3 1 150.031 12:01:28.0 1344.017 00:05:36 144 
30 TADLOCK/ KEVIN L 13909-AU09-ARPU BC H 1 2 150.031 12:01:35.0 1343.219 00:05:44 142 
31 R & R LOFT 0367-AU09-PHNX DC H 1 1 150.031 12:01:48.0 1341.741 00:05:56 140 
32 NICK KOWALCHUK 1854-AU09-SYR BC C 2 2 150.031 12:02:11.0 1339.132 00:06:20 138 
33 DAVID CLAUSING 0365-AU09-CLAU BB C 2 1 150.031 12:02:18.0 1338.340 00:06:27 136 
34 CAREY TILSON 0373-AU09-TENT BC C 3 1 150.031 12:02:37.0 1336.196 00:06:45 134 
35 Floridian / Del Valle 2531-AU09-SCHE BC H 1 1 150.031 12:06:50.0 1308.280 00:10:59 132 
36 CBS PIGEON 1497-AU09-CBS BC H 2 1 150.031 12:06:57.0 1307.524 00:11:06 130 
37 BRIAN WILKERSON 0801-AU09-PRO DC C 1 1 150.031 12:07:36.0 1303.330 00:11:44 128 
38 TRANQUILITY LOFT 0129-IF09-FFF BC H 4 1 150.031 12:07:37.0 1303.222 00:11:46 126 
39 DAVID CLAUSING 0367-AU09-CLAU SIL H 3 1 150.031 12:10:20.0 1285.980 00:14:28 124 
40 MIKE CHAFARDON 9197-AU09-CHAF BB H 1 1 150.031 12:10:23.0 1285.667 00:14:31 122 
41 NICK KOWALCHUK 1852-AU09-SYR BC C 3 1 150.031 12:10:26.0 1285.354 00:14:34 120 
42 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9181-AU09-DTL BP C 1 1 150.031 12:10:27.0 1285.250 00:14:35 118 
43 PROPIGEON LOFT 0139-AU09-IRSH BBPD H 1 1 150.031 12:10:29.0 1285.041 00:14:38 116 
44 NANEZ FAMILY LOFT 19724-AU09-JEDD BB H 1 1 150.031 12:10:32.0 1284.729 00:14:40 114 
45 NICK KOWALCHUK 1828-AU09-SYR BC H 4 2 150.031 12:10:54.0 1282.441 00:15:02 112 
46 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22687-AU09-JEDD BWF H 2 1 150.031 12:14:03.0 1263.117 00:18:11 110 
47 MARK TEAL 9679-AU09-ADA BB H 2 1 150.031 12:14:48.0 1258.601 00:18:57 108 
48 MIKE CHAFARDON 9172-AU09-CHAF BB H 2 1 150.031 12:15:54.0 1252.037 00:20:02 106 
49 SIERRA RANCH 0935-AU09-SRCH BB H 2 1 150.031 12:16:06.0 1250.851 00:20:14 104 
50 APC LOFT 9032-AU09-APC BB H 1 1 150.031 12:20:34.0 1224.932 00:24:43 102 
51 9 POINTS RACING/ SFL 0167-AU09-9PTS BB H 1 1 150.031 12:32:39.0 1159.915 00:36:47 100 
52 BILL RIXEY 0026-AU09-RIXY BWF H 2 1 150.031 12:32:46.0 1159.320 00:36:55 98 
53 MARIAN TALOI 9935-AU09-TVC BC H 2 1 150.031 12:34:22.0 1151.233 00:38:31 96 
54 MARTIN LIUVENT 3079-AU09-SCHE BC H 1 1 150.031 12:34:24.0 1151.066 00:38:32 94 
55 BILL TADLOCK 90044-IF09-BWI BB H 3 1 150.031 12:34:25.0 1150.982 00:38:34 92 
56 DENNIS MARTINEN 0843-AU09-YAK BC H 1 1 150.031 12:34:28.0 1150.732 00:38:36 90 
56 TOM & INGE 1738-AU09-TCH BB C 1 1 150.031 12:34:28.0 1150.732 00:38:36 90 
58 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0944-AU09-SRCH BB H 2 1 150.031 12:34:31.0 1150.481 00:38:39 86 
59 MIKE CHAFARDON 9179-AU09-CHAF BB C 3 1 150.031 12:34:34.0 1150.230 00:38:43 84 
60 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0921-AU09-CAR BB H 3 1 150.031 12:34:35.0 1150.147 00:38:43 82 
61 BILL TADLOCK 93039-IF09-BWI BC H 4 1 150.031 12:34:36.0 1150.063 00:38:45 80 
62 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9135-AU09-DTL BB H 2 1 150.031 12:34:37.0 1149.980 00:38:45 78 
62 JOHN CANTO 3058-AU09-VTKG BC H 2 1 150.031 12:34:37.0 1149.980 00:38:45 78 
64 NESLER BOYS 1927-AU09-TCH BB C 2 1 150.031 12:34:42.0 1149.563 00:38:50 74 
65 9 POINTS RACING/ SFL 0165-AU09-9PTS SIL H 2 1 150.031 12:34:43.0 1149.479 00:38:52 72 
66 DAVID CLAUSING 0371-AU09-CLAU BBPD H 4 1 150.031 12:34:47.0 1149.146 00:38:55 70 
66 RANDY GOODPASTURE 1544-AU09-PRO DC H 1 1 150.031 12:34:47.0 1149.146 00:38:55 70 
68 CAREY TILSON 0372-AU09-TENT BC H 4 1 150.031 12:34:50.0 1148.896 00:38:58 66 
69 BANZON / ANTONIO 56989-AU09-ARPU BC H 3 1 150.031 12:34:51.0 1148.813 00:38:59 64 
70 BILL RIXEY 0021-AU09-RIXY BB H 3 1 150.031 12:34:52.0 1148.729 00:39:01 62 
71 DOUBLT T LOFTS 9144-AU09-DTL BB H 3 1 150.031 12:34:53.0 1148.646 00:39:01 60 
72 BRIAN WILKERSON 0802-AU09-PRO DC H 2 1 150.031 12:34:58.0 1148.230 00:39:06 58 
73 LONE STAR LOFT 0712-AU09-DEN BC H 1 1 150.031 12:35:08.0 1147.398 00:39:17 56 
74 NICK KOWALCHUK 1859-AU09-SYR DC H 5 2 150.031 12:35:13.0 1146.983 00:39:21 54 
75 RUSTY WILLIAMS 3718-AU09-FVC DCPD H 2 1 150.031 12:35:20.0 1146.402 00:39:28 52 
76 HUTCHINSLOFT.COM 0137-AU09-HUT BB H 1 1 150.031 12:46:20.0 1094.149 00:50:28 50 
77 CARAPSTER SYNDICATE 0920-AU09-CARN BB H 4 1 150.031 12:46:24.0 1093.847 00:50:32 48 
78 DENNIS MARTINEN 0849-AU09-YAK BB C 2 1 150.031 12:51:23.0 1071.722 00:55:32 46 
79 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 9002-AU09-JNC BC H 2 1 150.031 12:52:44.0 1065.882 00:56:53 44 
80 NANEZ FAMILY LOFT 19615-AU09-JEDD BWF C 2 1 150.031 12:52:45.0 1065.811 00:56:53 42 
81 CAROLINA SYNDICATE 0675-IF09-FFF DC C 3 1 150.031 12:52:48.0 1065.595 00:56:57 40 
81 ROGER MORTVEDT 1142-AU09-SBV DC H 1 1 150.031 12:52:48.0 1065.595 00:56:57 40 
83 WING-N-IT LOFT 2651-AU09-PSF BCSP C 2 1 150.031 12:52:49.0 1065.524 00:56:57 36 
84 IRISH SYNDICATE 0226-AU09-IRSH DC C 2 1 150.031 12:52:50.0 1065.452 00:56:59 34 
84 MARTIN LIUVENT 3071-AU09-SCHE BC H 2 1 150.031 12:52:50.0 1065.452 00:56:59 34 
86 MARK TEAL 9625-AU09-ADA BB H 3 1 150.031 12:52:52.0 1065.309 00:57:00 30 
87 BRIAN WILKERSON 0864-AU09-PRO BB H 3 1 150.031 12:52:53.0 1065.237 00:57:02 28 
87 PROPIGEON LOFT 0602-AU09-PROP BB H 2 1 150.031 12:52:53.0 1065.237 00:57:02 28 
87 RAINBOW- LOFT.COM 22688-AU09-JEDD BB H 3 1 150.031 12:52:53.0 1065.237 00:57:02 28 
90 EL DORADO 5073-AU09-TEXS BCWF H 1 1 150.031 12:52:54.0 1065.166 00:57:02 22 
91 TIMBERLINE SPEED 0118-AU09-TSL BC H 2 1 150.031 12:52:55.0 1065.094 00:57:03 20 
92 MARK TEAL 9609-AU09-ADA BB H 4 1 150.031 12:52:56.0 1065.022 00:57:05 18 
93 MATT WIESBROCK 0590-AU09-ALCA BBPD H 1 1 150.031 12:52:57.0 1064.951 00:57:05 16 
94 WALSTON / TILSON 1215-AU09-GL BB C 1 1 150.031 12:52:58.0 1064.879 00:57:07 14 
95 MATT WIESBROCK 0593-AU09-ALCA BC H 2 1 150.031 12:52:59.0 1064.808 00:57:07 12 
95 WING-N-IT LOFT 0042-AU09-WING BBSP H 3 1 150.031 12:52:59.0 1064.808 00:57:07 12 
97 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9225-AU09-PUEB BC H 1 1 150.031 12:53:02.0 1064.593 00:57:10 8 
98 BRIAN WILKERSON 0865-AU09-PRO RC H 4 1 150.031 12:53:03.0 1064.522 00:57:11 6 
99 UTOPIAN LOFT 2089-AU09-UTPN BC H 1 1 150.031 12:53:05.0 1064.378 00:57:14 4 
100 NANEZ FAMILY LOFT 19626-AU09-JEDD BB C 3 1 150.031 12:53:06.0 1064.307 00:57:14 2 
101 WING-N-IT LOFT 0053-AU09-WING BB H 4 1 150.031 12:53:08.0 1064.164 00:57:16 0 
102 DAVID CLAUSING 0373-AU09-CLAU RC C 5 1 150.031 12:53:11.0 1063.950 00:57:19 0 
103 MARIAN TALOI 9923-AU09-TVC BB H 3 1 150.031 12:53:13.0 1063.807 00:57:21 0 
104 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9209-AU09-PUEB BB H 2 1 150.031 12:53:19.0 1063.378 00:57:28 0 
105 LOCANTE / KEVIN L. 13913-AU09-ARPU BB H 1 1 150.031 12:53:23.0 1063.093 00:57:31 0 
106 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9285-AU09-PUEB BCWF H 3 1 150.031 12:53:41.0 1061.810 00:57:50 0 
107 JOHN CANTO 3102-AU09-VTKG BC H 3 1 150.031 12:53:52.0 1061.028 00:58:01 0 
108 DAVE DUDLEY TEAM 9211-AU09-PUEB BB H 4 1 150.031 12:53:57.0 1060.673 00:58:05 0


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Hey !!! 

You are doing good !!! Too Good......Now you have to slow them down a bit for the next couple of races !!


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## Guest

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey !!!
> 
> You are doing good !!! Too Good......Now you have to slow them down a bit for the next couple of races !!


warren that 14th placing isnt all that bad either ,hope your birds can pull it off for the higher milage races there ....kalapati your birds are really showing that they have wat it takes to fly with the big boys ,good luck to the both of you


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## bloodlines_365

nice!!!!!! keep on knocking the hardwood floors...


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## SmithFamilyLoft

LokotaLoft said:


> warren that 14th placing isnt all that bad either ,hope your birds can pull it off for the higher milage races there ....kalapati your birds are really showing that they have wat it takes to fly with the big boys ,good luck to the both of you


This format is different from last year. This is an "average speed" race....the best average speed over three races, within about 12 days. I suspect a "speed" bird would have been in his element @ the 150. The back to back 250 & 350 miles, may be a whole different ball game. I would be very surprised if the top ten birds in this last event, are ranked as high in the last 350 mile event. If the 250 and/or the 350 events turn out to be a slower harder race, then any bird in the top 100 positions, in this last 150 mile event, could still be in contention for the title "Champion Bird." 

Monday Oct 26 is the 250 already, and then Nov 3rd is the big one. If they get worn out or tired, not a whole lot of time to recover. Those that are MIA or took several extra hours to return, are already out of the game, they just don't know it yet.


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## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> This format is different from last year. This is an "average speed" race....the best average speed over three races, within about 12 days. I suspect a "speed" bird would have been in his element @ the 150. The back to back 250 & 350 miles, may be a whole different ball game. I would be very surprised if the top ten birds in this last event, are ranked as high in the last 350 mile event. If the 250 and/or the 350 events turn out to be a slower harder race, then any bird in the top 100 positions, in this last 150 mile event, could still be in contention for the title "Champion Bird."
> 
> Monday Oct 26 is the 250 already, and then Nov 3rd is the big one. If they get worn out or tired, not a whole lot of time to recover. Those that are MIA or took several extra hours to return, are already out of the game, they just don't know it yet.



i agree. i'm still uncertain of what my birds can do in the next races to come and it's still too early to tell the capabilities of the top birds here in the 1st race. but you also have to remember that carey tilson's breed took the champion bird and champion breed last year and i think he did good also last year at CBS races. he pulled up 1st place again in this cup's 1st race. this guy has great birds i think. but we'll see after the finals. i just hope our birds can give out their best in the next races to come.



kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Oh gee....what a time for the site to crash....maybe too many people visiting the site ?


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## kalapati

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Oh gee....what a time for the site to crash....maybe too many people visiting the site ?





here's a working link warren:


http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=3&skin=winner


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> here's a working link warren:
> 
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=3&skin=winner
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


Turns out....this link may be visable, but worthless at this very moment. With the main web site down, the information will not get transmitted. Unless the web site gets back up, this will only add confusion.


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## windyflat

Good luck today Guys!
I'll be watching the results...
I'm off work today home with our 7 & 9 yr old daughters. Both of them tested positive for Influenza A so it's presumed they have H1N1.
So far myself and our 15 month old son are not sick but i'm sure it's just a matter of time.
Tom


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## learning

windyflat said:


> Good luck today Guys!
> I'll be watching the results...
> I'm off work today home with our 7 & 9 yr old daughters. Both of them tested positive for Influenza A so it's presumed they have H1N1.
> So far myself and our 15 month old son are not sick but i'm sure it's just a matter of time.
> Tom


Good luck with that one...we just got our two boys over it. When they say 5-7 days of high fever, that is exactly what it is. We did seven day of over 102 degrees.

Anyway...good luck to everyone in the race today. I just hope mine have a little better showing that the 150. 

Dan


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## windyflat

Was watching the results when the first and second birds clocked. Congrats Kalapati!!!!
Wow 0811 is one heck of bird.
Then your other bird 802 clocks 3 minutes later!!!!!!
Anybody else watching this live?
Tom


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## kalapati

windyflat said:


> Was watching the results when the first and second birds clocked. Congrats Kalapati!!!!
> Wow 0811 is one heck of bird.
> Then your other bird 802 clocks 3 minutes later!!!!!!
> Anybody else watching this live?
> Tom



i have a gut feeling since last night that my 2 birds will win today and it did...what can i say except that i'm so happppyyy. that first 3 birds that bit 0811 on the 1st race hasn't clocked yet and it's been about 45 minutes now since 0811 clocked.


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


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## whitesnmore

Kalapati, Congrats and keep the fingers crossed. You are sitting pretty to take it all right now. You're going to have to let us know what your bloodline was after the race is over


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## Lovebirds

kalapati said:


> i have a gut feeling since last night that my 2 birds will win today and it did...what can i say except that i'm so happppyyy. that first 3 birds that bit 0811 on the 1st race hasn't clocked yet and it's been about 45 minutes now since 0811 clocked.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm


that is SO COOL!!! WAY TO GO!!! When they said "live" I thought it meant a camera showing the birds entering the loft? I can't find anything like that. 
Anyway.........good job!!


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## windyflat

Hey Renee
If you go to this link http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=3&skin=winner 
You can see the results of the electronic clocking. It updates every minute.
Tom


----------



## Lovebirds

windyflat said:


> Hey Renee
> If you go to this link http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=3&skin=winner
> You can see the results of the electronic clocking. It updates every minute.
> Tom


Yes, thanks.......I saw that. Just for some reason thought it was a live picture of the birds coming in.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> i have a gut feeling since last night that my 2 birds will win today and it did...what can i say except that i'm so happppyy..... that first 3 birds that bit 0811 on the 1st race hasn't clocked yet and it's been about 45 minutes now since 0811 clocked.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com:81/Jview.htm




*CONGRADULATIONS !!!!*

Great Job ! If I had to get whipped, I am glad it was you !

Now, please excuse me, I'm going to go eat some dirt and crawl into a hole someplace and hide......

After I try to blame it on the wife for picking the pretty birds !!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

OMG !!! 

I looked at it again a bit closer....you could win Champion Bird and Champion Breeder...you could clean the board !!! Very, very impressive !! 1st and 2nd...I can't hardly believe it, what are the odds ?

I can hear the naysayers talking already "It was only 133 birds !!"...I sayBULL CRAP.. This is a major accomblishment, regardless of what happenes in the 350 !! You should be walking on air, by damn you did it !!! I wish I could shake your hand !!


----------



## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OMG !!!
> 
> I looked at it again a bit closer....you could win Champion Bird and Champion Breeder...you could clean the board !!! Very, very impressive !! 1st and 2nd...I can't hardly believe it, what are the odds ?
> 
> I can hear the naysayers talking already "*It was only 133 birds !!"...I sayBULL CRAP.. *This is a major accomblishment, regardless of what happenes in the 350 !! You should be walking on air, by damn you did it !!! I wish I could shake your hand !!



You said it all right there. You pay your money, send your best and the amount of competition is out of your hands. 
His birds were the best on this day. Period. End of story. Kaput!!


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## Bluecheckard

CONGRATS Gerald......... your bird did a really great job clocking 1st and 2nd on this race... Wish you more luck on the last race bro and bring home the bacons......


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## hillfamilyloft

Nice win. I like that family of birds from 250 miles. One-two punch is very impressive. I know the competition in that race and that is quite the feat. Good Job. Lets hope one is close to the top next race. 

I look for Warren's birds to move up the list in the 350 mile Race. Another flier I like at that distance is Nick Kowalchuck. Good luck guys. 

Randy


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## bloodlines_365

nice....keep.keep.keep on knocking the hardwood floors... congrats!!!!!!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Nice win. I like that family of birds from 250 miles. One-two punch is very impressive. I know the competition in that race and that is quite the feat. Good Job. Lets hope one is close to the top next race.
> 
> I look for Warren's birds to move up the list in the 350 mile Race. Another flier I like at that distance is Nick Kowalchuck. Good luck guys.
> 
> Randy


Thank you Randy for your vote of confidence. I know I'm not feeling particularly confident going into the 350. 

The exciting thing about this particular format, is just about anything can happen. As of 1:16 PM EST on 10/29 the #1 bird in the 150 is still currently MIA from the 250, in addition to about 25% of the birds still out there somewhere on the race course. Hard to imagine, even if it is 1st in the 350, it can make up for all those hours. I am sure Mr. Tilson was feeling very confident at the end of the 1st race with his winner 0323-AU09-TENT BC H, but that extra 100 miles seemed to do her in. I'm thinking if we have one of those 350 mile races where there are 25 on the drop, then perhaps the race is already sort of over....on the other hand....if it turns into a 2 day race like this last one, and 25% end up MIA again....well...it could turn the tide for those that were simply a little slower on the two shorter races. Well, a guy can hope can't he ?.....


----------



## Guest

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Thank you Randy for your vote of confidence. I know I'm not feeling particularly confident going into the 350.
> 
> The exciting thing about this particular format, is just about anything can happen. As of 1:16 PM EST on 10/29 the #1 bird in the 150 is still currently MIA from the 250, in addition to about 25% of the birds still out there somewhere on the race course. Hard to imagine, even if it is 1st in the 350, it can make up for all those hours. I am sure Mr. Tilson was feeling very confident at the end of the 1st race with his winner 0323-AU09-TENT BC H, but that extra 100 miles seemed to do her in. I'm thinking if we have one of those 350 mile races where there are 25 on the drop, then perhaps the race is already sort of over....on the other hand....if it turns into a 2 day race like this last one, and 25% end up MIA again....well...it could turn the tide for those that were simply a little slower on the two shorter races. Well, a guy can hope can't he ?.....


well if you dont place in the 350 theres always next year  you could send some babys from that super sonic Ludo of yours


----------



## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Thank you Randy for your vote of confidence. I know I'm not feeling particularly confident going into the 350.
> 
> The exciting thing about this particular format, is just about anything can happen. As of 1:16 PM EST on 10/29 the #1 bird in the 150 is still currently MIA from the 250, in addition to about 25% of the birds still out there somewhere on the race course. Hard to imagine, even if it is 1st in the 350, it can make up for all those hours. I am sure Mr. Tilson was feeling very confident at the end of the 1st race with his winner 0323-AU09-TENT BC H, but that extra 100 miles seemed to do her in. I'm thinking if we have one of those 350 mile races where there are 25 on the drop, then perhaps the race is already sort of over....on the other hand....if it turns into a 2 day race like this last one, and 25% end up MIA again....well...it could turn the tide for those that were simply a little slower on the two shorter races. *Well, a guy can hope can't he ?.*....


Yes he (or she as the case may be) can...I do it every week!!! LOL


----------



## kalapati

although the race is not over yet 'til tomorrow's 350, i appreciate everyone's CONGRATS here in this thread on the 250. i am not expecting my birds to finish on the top list tomorrow. i just want them to come home and eventually be in my loft to treasure them. since this is my first one loft race experience i would feel more proud if i have them with me. warren you are right. this 350 is another different ball game and is open now for everybody to win.

goodluck to all! 


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com/Jview.htm




here's an update for tomorrow's race:

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/messages/listMess.php?skin=winner

Breeders; Release tuesday will encounter some wind. We will be sure they have ample time to drink prior to release. We will be departing in plenty of time so as to afford the birds plenty of recovery time from the Basket bounce on the road. I wish to thank those of you who have supported the series this year. May we have a great final race and give credit to those birds that come out on top. Good luck to all..

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=4&skin=winner


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## windyflat

Good luck to all of our members competing in the 350
Tom


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> although the race is not over yet 'til tomorrow's 350, i appreciate everyone's CONGRATS here in this thread on the 250. i am not expecting my birds to finish on the top list tomorrow. i just want them to come home and eventually be in my loft to treasure them. since this is my first one loft race experience i would feel more proud if i have them with me. warren you are right. this 350 is another different ball game and is open now for everybody to win.
> 
> goodluck to all!
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com/Jview.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's an update for tomorrow's race:
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/messages/listMess.php?skin=winner
> 
> Breeders; Release tuesday will encounter some wind. We will be sure they have ample time to drink prior to release. We will be departing in plenty of time so as to afford the birds plenty of recovery time from the Basket bounce on the road. I wish to thank those of you who have supported the series this year. May we have a great final race and give credit to those birds that come out on top. Good luck to all..
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=4&skin=winner


Spoken like a real honest to goodness sportsman !! 

Like I said before, regardless of what happens, you should be very happy and proud of your #1 & #2 win in the 250 !! You are on the right track !!


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^

Git-Er-Done! Best of Luck!


----------



## dvtlegend

kalapati's results for last race is goo. He has second high team point(1225) besides dudley team of 1275. Great birds.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> although the race is not over yet 'til tomorrow's 350, i appreciate everyone's CONGRATS here in this thread on the 250. i am not expecting my birds to finish on the top list tomorrow. i just want them to come home and eventually be in my loft to treasure them. since this is my first one loft race experience i would feel more proud if i have them with me. warren you are right. this 350 is another different ball game and is open now for everybody to win.
> 
> goodluck to all!
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com/Jview.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's an update for tomorrow's race:
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/messages/listMess.php?skin=winner
> 
> Breeders; Release tuesday will encounter some wind. We will be sure they have ample time to drink prior to release. We will be departing in plenty of time so as to afford the birds plenty of recovery time from the Basket bounce on the road. I wish to thank those of you who have supported the series this year. May we have a great final race and give credit to those birds that come out on top. Good luck to all..
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportC.php?rid=4&skin=winner


Best I can figure you won 1st and 2nd Champion bird = $16,000
Champion Breeder = $6000

Now how do you feel about One Loft Racing ?!

Congradulations...and make sure to take the wife out for a nice dinner !!


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## [MN]eXist^_^

And maybe buy her a car =) Congrats!!!


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## bloodlines_365

gerald (kapati).....very impressived.......


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## Lovebirds

WOW!! WAY TO GO!!! Now we can all say we knew you when..............


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## Bluecheckard

Congrats Gerald... Way to go men......


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## ohiogsp

WOW nice job man.


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## keystonepaul

Congrats!!! Keystonepaul


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## West

Nice job Kalapati. Having two birds continually race so well is much more impressive than some of these one loft races with one lucky winner.


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## Guest

yes way to go , you did great and wow for having so few birds in your home loft to breed out of they must be something special  you the man !!


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## irishsyndicate

Wow ... quite impressive!!! Big Congrats are in order ...
This is quite a feat by two birds in a single race series!

Do you care to share what this family has done for you?
Not asking for pedigree - but curious as to the following
characteristics of the family of your two birds:

(1) Distance that they excel at?
(2) Type of race: Headwind, tailwind, speed, terrain, etc ...
(3) Body type, wing type, ...
(4) Any other info you feel is educational...


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## hillfamilyloft

I like the format where the best overall bird and loft wins. Usually you have the 300 mile race being the big prize with a flash in the pan taking the big money. In this race the best loft and birds take the prize. Nice to see this format. This way the short races are not just throw away races. You need a bird 150 to 300 mile strong. 

Nice win and race domination with two in the top. 

Randy


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## kalapati

irishsyndicate said:


> Wow ... quite impressive!!! Big Congrats are in order ...
> This is quite a feat by two birds in a single race series!
> 
> Do you care to share what this family has done for you?
> Not asking for pedigree - but curious as to the following
> characteristics of the family of your two birds:
> 
> (1) Distance that they excel at?
> (2) Type of race: Headwind, tailwind, speed, terrain, etc ...
> (3) Body type, wing type, ...
> (4) Any other info you feel is educational...





ProPigeon Loft said:


> I'm also interested in knowing more about your family of birds.
> 
> Again, big congrats!



sorry for the delay here. i've been extremely busy at work this week. bill hatcher sent me a draft of a new winnerscup poster that features me and the champion bird SD 0811. i cannot post it here for it hasn't been finalized yet. after it's done i think you'll be able to see it on his website and to different pigeon magazines for advertisement. if bill will e-mail me the final one then i will have it posted on a new thread.

this is the raw image that was fused into the poster.











i don't have a pix of this bird's nestmate which is the 2nd champion bird. the parents are sissi/kannibal pairings and these 2 champions are the first clutch. the bird looks like a street pigeon but i was really amazed that these 2 nestmates took all the major prizes at the cup totaling more than $24,000.

i appreciate everyone's congrats again in the final race.


kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com/Jview.htm


----------



## windaidedaviary

Very nice job. Nestmates 1 and 2...WOW.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Here are the Champs !!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

And the other Champion !


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I do not remember where I read the story about "Sissi". But the moral to the story is that she was so ugly that she was given away. Just shows to go ya that looks are not all that important. 

Randy


----------



## warpaint

http://www.schaerlaeckens.com/ found here in the articles


----------



## kalapati

Warren thanks for posting it. i have other entries of their siblings here in San diego.

i have one entry at HolidayCup and we have our first 150 last Sunday. He was at the first drop (#9)

http://www.sandiegoclassic-holidaycup.com/Holidaycup_150Miles_race_score2009.htm

i have another entry at the San Diego Classic and they have a 110 mile training the other day and this sibling placed # 1

http://www.sandiegoclassic-holidaycup.com/sdc_trainingtoss110miles_score110909.htm



kalapati
San Diego
http://bluebarloft.from-ca.com/Jview.htm


----------



## kalapati

*The Story of Sissi Part 1*

A Pigeon called 'Sissi'.

By Ad Schaerlaeckens

I write in several pigeonmagazines all over the world, in fact it has become my living.
When you realise I started writing in 1974 on a weekly base you can imagine how many articles I wrote, not to speak about the Janssenbook. And believe it or not, every time a difficult part of the job is finding a good title.
Finding a subject to write about is not easy either and for that reason I sometimes write about my own pigeons, about my own experiences, my failures and successes.
This article is about a pigeon of mine from 1988 whose band ends in 088.
When trying to find a title for this article I was inspired by the famous American movie ‘A fish called Wanda’. Many pigeons have a name.
I found ‘Sissi’ a good name for that 1988-hen which was a real super!
So when reading further please don’t take me wrong. Do not think I am writing this because I want to sell pigeons as not one child of ‘Sissi’ is for sale.
Don’t think either I write this article with the intention to sell her descendants. This bloodline is so popular in Holland that the demand is higher than the supply so I can sell them, anyway.
I write this is article because it has a moral:
One fancier is smarter than another indeed but in general we know as little about pigeons as Clinton knows about celibacy.
‘We’ that is you, me and the others. Even the greatest champions.
O yes we can see if a pigeon is beautiful.
We can see if a bird has a strong body.
But we cannot see inside the head, if a pigeon is smart. And a pigeon should be smart!
I worked a lot with students, young girls. Some were pretty, others were not, some were smart others were not.

I do not know how it is in Taiwan but in Holland the combination (pretty AND smart) is real rare.
Sometimes you can meet a girl so pretty that every normal man falls for her. But as soon as she opens her mouth it is over.
Such girls do better when they keep their mouths shut.
Smart talk seldom comes out of the mouth of pretty girls.
As for pigeons I have learned to watch out for birds which are pretty. 
Because pretty birds which are smart at the same time? That is as rare as pretty girls who are smart.

SISSI

‘Sissi’ (she died in April 2000) was a breeding miracle.
In 1996 I had 2 first provincial Ace-pigeons (average 11,000 birds in competition) they were brother and sister. This never happened in history.
They were descendants of ‘Sissi’.
I had 6 best pigeons in Combine: All descendants of Sissi.
In 1999 I had again first 2 Acepigeons Provincial (average 10,000 birds in competition) they were descendants of ‘Sissi’.
May 5th of this year (2000) I won 1st against 13,200 pigeons, 7 minutes ahead of the rest in hard weather (98-5812162). He was a descendant of ‘Sissi’.
June 24th 2000 I won from Orleans 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th. All descendants of ’Sissi’.
In 1996 I won 1st of 24,000 pigeons in hard weather. This bird called ‘Golden Eye’ is in Taiwan now and was a descendant of ‘Sissi’.
In 1998 Mr Leyten had 2nd World Champion Long Distance (Versele Laga): Descendant ‘Sissi’.
In 1999 Mr de Bruyn had 1st Provincial Ace (5,000 fanciers, ring 1998-1222890) she was also 5th best hen of Holland: Descendant of ‘Sissi’. 
He has another hen that won 3 firsts, descendants ‘Sissi’.
Mr Roks won 9 firsts with descendants ‘Sissi’.
Mr van Veen won 1st of 21,000 pigeons. Descendant of ‘Sissi’.
In 1998 I won 8th, 10th, and 13th National Orleans. 3 descendants of ‘Sissi’.
98-5812191 won in 2000 in 5 weeks time 4 first prizes in great competition. He is a descendant of Sissi.
99-1944577 won in 3 different races 14,454 p – 1st, 9.508 p – 1st, S-Nat Oreans 10,500 p – 1st. This 577 is a gr.son of 92-5212278. 278 won 7 first prizes and is a son of Sissi.
In 1999 I had apart from the first 2 Ace pigeons Provincial old birds the 1st Ace youngsters: Shirt Distance: Grandchild Sissi.
I had also 1st Ace youngsters Middle Distance: Grandchild Sissi.
In 2000 Mr v d Zijde has a bird that won at long distance 1st, 1st, 2nd. Two first prizes with 20 minutes advance and it is candidate to be National Ace long distance. Again a grandchild of ‘ Sissi’.
I stop because it is going to be boring but I could make this list much longer.
Once again, this is no propaganda, so do not stop reading as the interesting thing is yet to come, including the answer to the question: ‘How do you get such a superbird?’
That is a pretty long story but it is educational. Here we go. 

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

There are many things in which I am bad. But I am not bad in everything. In Holland I have the reputation that I am always the first to find new stars. Is this luck? Partly but not all.
I do not read reports about champions in our sport as these reporta are often paid propaganda in order to sell babies. Moreover the results are seldom complete which means they are correct but misleading..
I am not interested in birds of a Champion because in some areas in Holland and Belgium competition is so poor that an average fancier can be a champion.
I am not interested in the pigeons of a man who won a National race. Because what is the value of his pigeons when he entered 60 birds and won apart from his first prize National just a handful of prizes?
You must know that in Holland or Belgium 1 in every 3 birds in a race wins a prize.
So 1200 birds in a race? That means 400 prizes.
A person who races 15 birds should win 5 prizes. Then he is average. If he wins less his result is poor. If he wins 12 prizes of 15 birds entered he is good. If he wins 12 prizes of 80 birds he entered his result is poor!
Moreover there is another thing that we in Europe know but you cannot know:
The circumstances of a National race.
When there is a west wind the winner is bound to be a fancier who lives in the Eastern part of the country, so near the German border.
When there is a west wind the pigeon that won the 20th prize National has done far better than the winner if the fancier who won 20th prize lives in the western part of the country.
Because the weather circumstances were against this bird.

HOW COME?

How come then that I have often been lucky when buying birds?
I get the COMPLETE results of many provinces and combines in Holland and Belgium and study them carefully.
Abroad people see the top-prizes and not more. For me this is not good enough.
I will give you an example of what I mean.
Take a race with 1,200 birds in competition and M X won 1st and 2nd.
Mr X will be in all the newspapers.
His results seems impressive indeed but this changes from impressive to horrible when one sees that he entered 60 birds and won only 6 prizes.
But foreigners cannot see that. 
In the same race Mr Y may have won 12th, 15th and 20th prize. Mr Y’s name will not be mentioned in any magazine. But he was no less than sensational when he only entered 3 birds in that race!
To judge how good a fancier in Holland and Belgium is you absolutely must know how many birds he entered, how strong the competion is and his location
I am sure that if people abroad would see all the results of some great names here their eyes would pop out. But I was talking about ‘Sissi’ and for that we have to go back in history.


----------



## kalapati

*The Story of Sissi Part 2*

1991

In 1991 I heard rumours about a cock in Belgium which bred many Superbirds. I went up to the owner with an American friend of mine. We asked the Belgian guy: ‘How much do you 
charge for a youngster off of your Supercock?’
We swallowed when we heard the price. The man must have seen our surprise and said ‘Okay, I will give you a hen free.’
We bought the birds, each of us paid 50 procent and we would share the babies.
Back home we opened the basket to have another look at the 2 birds. They even seemed to look uglier than before.
‘I am sorry’ my American friend said, ‘such birds just cannot be any good, do you care if I pass?
‘No problem’ I said and gave him back the money he already paid me.
‘What a dummy I am’ I thought before going to bed. ‘How could I waste money for such rubbish?’ And I swore to be more careful in future when spending money on birds to improve my family. 
Anyway I had no other choice than to breed babies of the 2 uglies.

1992

The babies off of the cock I bought from that superbreeder looked bad but not too bad.
The first babies I bred of the hen (‘Sissi’) were horrible and I eliminated them.
The following babies were just as horrible but I could not kill them all, could I?
However I was lucky. At least that’s what I thought. One of her babies got lost and I was relieved. ‘One bad pigeon less to feed.’
But imagine my surprise when some days later a guy from Hamburg (Germany) phoned me. He had a baby of mine in his loft. I asked for the bandnumber and was happy. It was a child of ‘Sissi’. ‘The bird is yours’ I told the German. ‘You may keep it.’
This was a decent way to get rid of birds I did not like I thought.
But imagine my surprise 2 days later. The bird, only 10 weeks old was back in my loft. He made it without any training all the way from Hamburg to my town, no less than 600 kilometers. Can you believe it? 
This bird was 92-5212278. Later on he would win 7 races among which 2 provincials in 2 weeks’ time. Mr Timmermans got a baby from this 278.
It became father of his 99-1944577 which won:
14,454 pigeons – 1st
9.508 pigeons – 1st
10.500 pigeons – 1st

In 1992 another important thing happened.

JAPANESE IMPORTER

There is this Japanese importer who is always seeking for something new.
He does not want birds from great names but from small unknown fanciers. At that time he had never heard about the Belgian where I got Sissi. I told him about the man and said I had 2 birds of his best bloodline.
He is a nice Japanese so I also warned him these birds were not goodlooking as I did not want to disappoint him.
He had much confidence in me and said: ‘Ship me the birds’ and that’s what I did.
Time went by and… the children of Sissi won everything for me.
‘What did I do to ship these pigeons to Japan? What a fool I am’ I moaned.
This was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.
Strangely enough for a long time I heard nothing from my Japanese client.
So I faxed him: ‘How come I do not hear from you?’ ‘What’s wrong?’ ‘Is there a problem?’
Then he faxed me about the 2 pigeons I shipped him. He should have taken my words that they were ugly more serious. Everybody who saw these birds began to laugh and he could not sell one baby of them. He was about to kill them.
I said: ‘I am sorry’, (but my heart beated fast for joy) and added ‘I do not want to disappoint you and I will repay the money. But you must send the birds back to Holland.’
You cannot imagine how happy he was.
And you cannot imagine how happy I was. This was the best thing that ever happened to me in pigeonsport.
‘Sissi’ came back to Holland. I started breeding from her again and the result you could read before. Later I did another good thing.

1996

I sell pretty many birds to Dutch and Belgian fanciers but in those days, 1993 and 1994 they wanted all my birds apart from the descendants of Sissi. They did not like the dark blue colour and they were too small.
No problem I thought.
But in 1995 the fame of the descendants of ‘Sissi’ spread like wild fire. In that year I won one race after the other against many thousands of birds, the winners were all descendants of ‘Sissi’. And suddenly everybody wanted ‘Sissi-stuff’.
In 1996 I had 4 summerbreds of her.
Great Belgian names offered much money for them and I did another good thing: Not fall for the money and keep the birds for myself.

LATER ON

It stands to reason that later on I went to the man again where I got ‘Sissi’ to buy more birds. None of them were any good.
Also the American guy and the Japanese importer realised what a big mistake they made and even bought brothers and sisters of ‘Sissi’.
None of them was able to breed any good baby and… they sold them to Taiwan !!

THE MORAL

A: To get a good bird you need luck. And if you bought pigeons which are no good this does not mean you were cheated. When a pigeon is super it does not necessarily mean her brothers and sisters are also super. Even ‘Sissi’ bred me bad birds. 
B: What do we know about pigeons? The Belgian guy would never have given me Sissi if he had known it was such a good bird. The great Champions who wanted my pigeons but not those of ‘Sissi’ before 1995 were all wrong in judging the quality of birds. They wanted her children when it was too late and I did not sell them any more. 
C: You are never sure about the quality of a bird but that is the nice thing about pigeonsport. If we could see a pigeon was good the superbirds would soon be in the hands of people with money.
D: Most descendants of Sissi are pretty small, especially the hens, but their performances are best in hard races. I think the modern winners in pigeonsport are of the smaller type. This is a contrast with some decades ago, then the birds were bigger. Beware of big pigeons in hard races! It is the smaller types which are often the strongest.
E: Forgive me that I mentioned my results. I just wanted to open the eyes of novices and losers sothat they may be winners in future!

© Ad Schaerlaeckens


----------



## sandiego

Congrats KALAPATI !!!!!!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> A Pigeon called 'Sissi'.
> 
> By Ad Schaerlaeckens
> 
> I write in several pigeonmagazines all over the world, in fact it has become my living.
> When you realise I started writing in 1974 on a weekly base you can imagine how many articles I wrote, not to speak about the Janssenbook. And believe it or not, every time a difficult part of the job is finding a good title.
> Finding a subject to write about is not easy either and for that reason I sometimes write about my own pigeons, about my own experiences, my failures and successes.
> This article is about a pigeon of mine from 1988 whose band ends in 088.
> When trying to find a title for this article I was inspired by the famous American movie ‘A fish called Wanda’. Many pigeons have a name.
> I found ‘Sissi’ a good name for that 1988-hen which was a real super!
> So when reading further please don’t take me wrong. Do not think I am writing this because I want to sell pigeons as not one child of ‘Sissi’ is for sale.
> Don’t think either I write this article with the intention to sell her descendants. This bloodline is so popular in Holland that the demand is higher than the supply so I can sell them, anyway.
> I write this is article because it has a moral:
> One fancier is smarter than another indeed but in general we know as little about pigeons as Clinton knows about celibacy.
> ‘We’ that is you, me and the others. Even the greatest champions.
> O yes we can see if a pigeon is beautiful.
> We can see if a bird has a strong body.
> But we cannot see inside the head, if a pigeon is smart. And a pigeon should be smart!
> I worked a lot with students, young girls. Some were pretty, others were not, some were smart others were not.
> 
> I do not know how it is in Taiwan but in Holland the combination (pretty AND smart) is real rare.
> Sometimes you can meet a girl so pretty that every normal man falls for her. But as soon as she opens her mouth it is over.
> Such girls do better when they keep their mouths shut.
> Smart talk seldom comes out of the mouth of pretty girls.
> As for pigeons I have learned to watch out for birds which are pretty.
> Because pretty birds which are smart at the same time? That is as rare as pretty girls who are smart.
> 
> SISSI
> 
> ‘Sissi’ (she died in April 2000) was a breeding miracle.
> In 1996 I had 2 first provincial Ace-pigeons (average 11,000 birds in competition) they were brother and sister. This never happened in history.
> They were descendants of ‘Sissi’.
> I had 6 best pigeons in Combine: All descendants of Sissi.
> In 1999 I had again first 2 Acepigeons Provincial (average 10,000 birds in competition) they were descendants of ‘Sissi’.
> May 5th of this year (2000) I won 1st against 13,200 pigeons, 7 minutes ahead of the rest in hard weather (98-5812162). He was a descendant of ‘Sissi’.
> June 24th 2000 I won from Orleans 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th. All descendants of ’Sissi’.
> In 1996 I won 1st of 24,000 pigeons in hard weather. This bird called ‘Golden Eye’ is in Taiwan now and was a descendant of ‘Sissi’.
> In 1998 Mr Leyten had 2nd World Champion Long Distance (Versele Laga): Descendant ‘Sissi’.
> In 1999 Mr de Bruyn had 1st Provincial Ace (5,000 fanciers, ring 1998-1222890) she was also 5th best hen of Holland: Descendant of ‘Sissi’.
> He has another hen that won 3 firsts, descendants ‘Sissi’.
> Mr Roks won 9 firsts with descendants ‘Sissi’.
> Mr van Veen won 1st of 21,000 pigeons. Descendant of ‘Sissi’.
> In 1998 I won 8th, 10th, and 13th National Orleans. 3 descendants of ‘Sissi’.
> 98-5812191 won in 2000 in 5 weeks time 4 first prizes in great competition. He is a descendant of Sissi.
> 99-1944577 won in 3 different races 14,454 p – 1st, 9.508 p – 1st, S-Nat Oreans 10,500 p – 1st. This 577 is a gr.son of 92-5212278. 278 won 7 first prizes and is a son of Sissi.
> In 1999 I had apart from the first 2 Ace pigeons Provincial old birds the 1st Ace youngsters: Shirt Distance: Grandchild Sissi.
> I had also 1st Ace youngsters Middle Distance: Grandchild Sissi.
> In 2000 Mr v d Zijde has a bird that won at long distance 1st, 1st, 2nd. Two first prizes with 20 minutes advance and it is candidate to be National Ace long distance. Again a grandchild of ‘ Sissi’.
> I stop because it is going to be boring but I could make this list much longer.
> Once again, this is no propaganda, so do not stop reading as the interesting thing is yet to come, including the answer to the question: ‘How do you get such a superbird?’
> That is a pretty long story but it is educational. Here we go.
> 
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT
> 
> There are many things in which I am bad. But I am not bad in everything. In Holland I have the reputation that I am always the first to find new stars. Is this luck? Partly but not all.
> I do not read reports about champions in our sport as these reporta are often paid propaganda in order to sell babies. Moreover the results are seldom complete which means they are correct but misleading..
> I am not interested in birds of a Champion because in some areas in Holland and Belgium competition is so poor that an average fancier can be a champion.
> I am not interested in the pigeons of a man who won a National race. Because what is the value of his pigeons when he entered 60 birds and won apart from his first prize National just a handful of prizes?
> You must know that in Holland or Belgium 1 in every 3 birds in a race wins a prize.
> So 1200 birds in a race? That means 400 prizes.
> A person who races 15 birds should win 5 prizes. Then he is average. If he wins less his result is poor. If he wins 12 prizes of 15 birds entered he is good. If he wins 12 prizes of 80 birds he entered his result is poor!
> Moreover there is another thing that we in Europe know but you cannot know:
> The circumstances of a National race.
> When there is a west wind the winner is bound to be a fancier who lives in the Eastern part of the country, so near the German border.
> When there is a west wind the pigeon that won the 20th prize National has done far better than the winner if the fancier who won 20th prize lives in the western part of the country.
> Because the weather circumstances were against this bird.
> 
> HOW COME?
> 
> How come then that I have often been lucky when buying birds?
> I get the COMPLETE results of many provinces and combines in Holland and Belgium and study them carefully.
> Abroad people see the top-prizes and not more. For me this is not good enough.
> I will give you an example of what I mean.
> Take a race with 1,200 birds in competition and M X won 1st and 2nd.
> Mr X will be in all the newspapers.
> His results seems impressive indeed but this changes from impressive to horrible when one sees that he entered 60 birds and won only 6 prizes.
> But foreigners cannot see that.
> In the same race Mr Y may have won 12th, 15th and 20th prize. Mr Y’s name will not be mentioned in any magazine. But he was no less than sensational when he only entered 3 birds in that race!
> To judge how good a fancier in Holland and Belgium is you absolutely must know how many birds he entered, how strong the competion is and his location
> I am sure that if people abroad would see all the results of some great names here their eyes would pop out. But I was talking about ‘Sissi’ and for that we have to go back in history.


 I miss our friend "learning" but this story about "Sissi" gave me a good excuse to bump it back up, for those who don't remember either.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> 1991
> 
> In 1991 I heard rumours about a cock in Belgium which bred many Superbirds. I went up to the owner with an American friend of mine. We asked the Belgian guy: ‘How much do you
> charge for a youngster off of your Supercock?’
> We swallowed when we heard the price. The man must have seen our surprise and said ‘Okay, I will give you a hen free.’
> We bought the birds, each of us paid 50 procent and we would share the babies.
> Back home we opened the basket to have another look at the 2 birds. They even seemed to look uglier than before.
> ‘I am sorry’ my American friend said, ‘such birds just cannot be any good, do you care if I pass?
> ‘No problem’ I said and gave him back the money he already paid me.
> ‘What a dummy I am’ I thought before going to bed. ‘How could I waste money for such rubbish?’ And I swore to be more careful in future when spending money on birds to improve my family.
> Anyway I had no other choice than to breed babies of the 2 uglies.
> 
> 1992
> 
> The babies off of the cock I bought from that superbreeder looked bad but not too bad.
> The first babies I bred of the hen (‘Sissi’) were horrible and I eliminated them.
> The following babies were just as horrible but I could not kill them all, could I?
> However I was lucky. At least that’s what I thought. One of her babies got lost and I was relieved. ‘One bad pigeon less to feed.’
> But imagine my surprise when some days later a guy from Hamburg (Germany) phoned me. He had a baby of mine in his loft. I asked for the bandnumber and was happy. It was a child of ‘Sissi’. ‘The bird is yours’ I told the German. ‘You may keep it.’
> This was a decent way to get rid of birds I did not like I thought.
> But imagine my surprise 2 days later. The bird, only 10 weeks old was back in my loft. He made it without any training all the way from Hamburg to my town, no less than 600 kilometers. Can you believe it?
> This bird was 92-5212278. Later on he would win 7 races among which 2 provincials in 2 weeks’ time. Mr Timmermans got a baby from this 278.
> It became father of his 99-1944577 which won:
> 14,454 pigeons – 1st
> 9.508 pigeons – 1st
> 10.500 pigeons – 1st
> 
> In 1992 another important thing happened.
> 
> JAPANESE IMPORTER
> 
> There is this Japanese importer who is always seeking for something new.
> He does not want birds from great names but from small unknown fanciers. At that time he had never heard about the Belgian where I got Sissi. I told him about the man and said I had 2 birds of his best bloodline.
> He is a nice Japanese so I also warned him these birds were not goodlooking as I did not want to disappoint him.
> He had much confidence in me and said: ‘Ship me the birds’ and that’s what I did.
> Time went by and… the children of Sissi won everything for me.
> ‘What did I do to ship these pigeons to Japan? What a fool I am’ I moaned.
> This was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life.
> Strangely enough for a long time I heard nothing from my Japanese client.
> So I faxed him: ‘How come I do not hear from you?’ ‘What’s wrong?’ ‘Is there a problem?’
> Then he faxed me about the 2 pigeons I shipped him. He should have taken my words that they were ugly more serious. Everybody who saw these birds began to laugh and he could not sell one baby of them. He was about to kill them.
> I said: ‘I am sorry’, (but my heart beated fast for joy) and added ‘I do not want to disappoint you and I will repay the money. But you must send the birds back to Holland.’
> You cannot imagine how happy he was.
> And you cannot imagine how happy I was. This was the best thing that ever happened to me in pigeonsport.
> ‘Sissi’ came back to Holland. I started breeding from her again and the result you could read before. Later I did another good thing.
> 
> 1996
> 
> I sell pretty many birds to Dutch and Belgian fanciers but in those days, 1993 and 1994 they wanted all my birds apart from the descendants of Sissi. They did not like the dark blue colour and they were too small.
> No problem I thought.
> But in 1995 the fame of the descendants of ‘Sissi’ spread like wild fire. In that year I won one race after the other against many thousands of birds, the winners were all descendants of ‘Sissi’. And suddenly everybody wanted ‘Sissi-stuff’.
> In 1996 I had 4 summerbreds of her.
> Great Belgian names offered much money for them and I did another good thing: Not fall for the money and keep the birds for myself.
> 
> LATER ON
> 
> It stands to reason that later on I went to the man again where I got ‘Sissi’ to buy more birds. None of them were any good.
> Also the American guy and the Japanese importer realised what a big mistake they made and even bought brothers and sisters of ‘Sissi’.
> None of them was able to breed any good baby and… they sold them to Taiwan !!
> 
> THE MORAL
> 
> A: To get a good bird you need luck. And if you bought pigeons which are no good this does not mean you were cheated. When a pigeon is super it does not necessarily mean her brothers and sisters are also super. Even ‘Sissi’ bred me bad birds.
> B: What do we know about pigeons? The Belgian guy would never have given me Sissi if he had known it was such a good bird. The great Champions who wanted my pigeons but not those of ‘Sissi’ before 1995 were all wrong in judging the quality of birds. They wanted her children when it was too late and I did not sell them any more.
> C: You are never sure about the quality of a bird but that is the nice thing about pigeonsport. If we could see a pigeon was good the superbirds would soon be in the hands of people with money.
> D: Most descendants of Sissi are pretty small, especially the hens, but their performances are best in hard races. I think the modern winners in pigeonsport are of the smaller type. This is a contrast with some decades ago, then the birds were bigger. Beware of big pigeons in hard races! It is the smaller types which are often the strongest.
> E: Forgive me that I mentioned my results. I just wanted to open the eyes of novices and losers sothat they may be winners in future!
> 
> © Ad Schaerlaeckens


And let's not forget part II, and of course I always have some sort of selfish reason for doing things !


----------

