# Found 2 orphans, one has big problems with beak



## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

Hello:

Three weeks ago my 12 year old daughter found two baby wild pigeons in a nest under a tree, obviously abandoned by the mother, as they were shaking and empty. So, we took them home. Years ago I raised one of them succesfully, so I took the chance with these 2 tiny naked babies, they must have been just a couple of days old. Well, three weeks after, Larry and Curly and doing good, but my concern is that one of them, the sweet Curly, not only is half the size of her brother (even though they eat the same), but she has big problems with her beak. It is deformed, as the upper part is shorter than the lower and it´s always open. She cannot close it. I´m worried that she will never be able to eat by herself. Is there anything that can be done to fix this? We love her and want her to go to the wild when she´s ready. By the way, we are in Lima, Peru, South America!
Regards,

Camila


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Camila,

I'm sorry to hear one of the youngsters isn't thriving.

Please look inside the youngsters beak and see if there is any yellow cheezy looking deposits or growths inside and around the beak and/or saliva, any lumps in the crop?

What do the birds poop look like and how much of it is there, is i yellow? Any other symptoms that make it different from the healthy sibling.

The youngster may have a disease like canker, coccodiosis or something else, which is causing the beak to be deformed and stunting the growth. Usually paratyphoid can be a problem when one chick is smaller then the other, but with beak deformity it could be something else, or both.

Please respond to my post and update asap.

Thank you.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Could you post a pic of them? It would help us get an idea.

Thank you for rescuing those darlings.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If the youngster is suffering from any of the diseases mentioned, please respond as time is of the essence. 

The youngster would need to be treated with medication.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Two hungry chicks in Lima*

Hello Camila,

Babies possibly were not "abandoned," if something dreadful happened to the mother and father. The norm is that both parents raise two chicks. A sole surviving parent may abandon unhealthy chicks, or if it feels it cannot do a good job. (Nest may be threatened, or the parent may feel that it's own life is unduly threatened. There are records of pigeons dying in fires, sacrificing their own lives to save the chicks, while the babies are proteced from the fire by the insulating properties of the parent bird's feathers. 

I think pigeons are like humans in some ways: some are better parents than others. Some will abandon young more readily than others, and some are mentally or physically unfit to do a good job of raising young.

I guess the whole point of what I am trying to say is that the chicks were not "obviously abandoned" in the sense that the parent birds necessarily did so willingly or intentionally. Many birds get run over by cars, or taken by raptors, and there is no community bulletin board or hospital or police station available where the mate or the chicks can turn to in order to find out why the other disappeared. (I don't want to assume that the pigeons were "bad" parents).

A bit of a rough life, don't you think? 

But, all of this discussion is maybe an unnecessary distraction from the urgent issue of taking care of the chicks. 

My tame pigeon Wieteke and his feral mate Mamieke raisd two pairs of chicks to adulthod. In each pair, there was one chick much smaller than the other, even though te parents had access to plenty of food, ACV apple cider vinegar in there water, probotics, and vitamin supplements in their water. In the first pair, I hand-fed the smaller chick, which weighed abut 60 grams or 2 ounces, while the bigger chick weighed 180 grams, for four days. Both chicks looked healthy, but the smaller one was less aggressive and was fed after the bigger chick. Perhaps the bigger chick got first chance at richer crop milk or more crop milk from the parents, after a night of not being fed. All four chicks (the second and third pair of chicks) survived to adulthood. The very first solitary egg Mamieke laid was infertle, and the first pair of chicks died after one or two days after hatching (perhaps from paratyphoid, or salmonella, which the father, Wieteke, had survived as a baby when I rescued him and medicated him). 

If you can get a battery-powered digital kitchen scale (which weighs or measures in one-gram increments, or decimals of an ounce), it would help you monitor the actual flood intake and progress of the chicks. This in not necessarily essential, but can be helpful.

Incidentally, I have a brother-in-law from Lima. He and his fair-haired, blue-eyed wife (one of my many sisters) live in Washington D.C. She speaks excellent an fluent Spanish (at 500 words per minute, at least!) Once she shocked two the Spanish-speaking women when she asked them to please let her move by in a supermarket, and they were making derogatory remarks about her which they assumed she didn't understand. My sister is very practical, and lets others know when they are impractical and a hindrance. 

Larry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Camille,

Thanks for taking on the raising of these two babies for the parents. After
you've had a chance to answer some of Treesa's questions regarding the babies health, if you could also let us know what the availabilty of medications are for
you this would be helpful. Are you able to purchase human meds OTC in Peru?
If so, there are medications that would help w/the illnesses that Treesa mentioned. Thanks for rescuing these babies!

fp


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Thankyou for all your answers about our 2 "kids"*

Dear Trees Gray: 
Answering your questions, both chicks seem to be very active and healthy, including the little one, she is only a little bit slower in her development, but except for the deformed beak, seems very healthy, she has a ravenous appetite! Both poop I think, normal, dark brown color with a little white on the top, and not watery but with a "nice" shape. It´s not yellowish at all. I looked inside her beak and I don´t see anything yellowish or anything strange, but her tongue seems to be getting dry, probably because it is in contact with the air all the time. The crop seems normal too. In my opinion, it´s not a disease but...What do I know??
The bigger sibling took it´s first big flight today, from one extreme to the room to the other and we were very excited. The little one tries, but she´s not ready to fly yet. Her feathers are not complete yet.
Dear Feralpigeon:
Yes, I can buy OTC medication here in Peru. Thanks for you reply too!
Dear Larry:
I didn´t mean to say that the parents intentionally abandoned the babies, what probably happened is that the nest fell down, and there was a lot of people around it, so they got scared and didn´t come back to take care of the babies. I lived for almost 6 years in Long Island NY, but now I´m back in Peru. Has your sister been to Lima recently? It has changed a lot lately.
I will try to post pics later so you can see the problem beak and have a better idea of what´s going on.

Thank you all!

Camila


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camilia,



Some images would be helpful for us to see what you are talking about...


Infections of sub-lethal Salmonella can effect them to make for stunted growth, as well as other problems...other things possibly as well could do this.


Do you find any suggestion of swellings on any of his Wing or Leg joints?

Are the Feathers normal in their structure and quality and pattern?


Anyway...post some images...?


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Some pics*

Dear Phil:

I´m attaching 3 pics, hope people can have an idea of what I´m talking about...the chick´s beak was always open, from the first day we found them, but, it´s been getting worse with time. She can drink water by herself, but still not eating alone. And, now that you mention it, her feathers are kind of ugly, because she cannot groom herself very well. Anyway, she looks like the "ugly duckling". She lacks feathers on her head and neck. In one of the pics they are only @ 5 days old, the other two are from today. You can see the diference in size with her sibling.
Please advise if there´s anything we can do to help this bird.

Thanks

Camila


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*About the pics*

Pic 1 shows both babies, maybe 5 or 6 days old, the one in the right side is the smallest one and you can see the open beak, but not as open as today
Pic 2 This is the bigger sibling, his feather were puffy then, he normally doesn´t look like that, and he already is flying
Pic 3 I the little chick, with the open beak, I tried a close up


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They're really cute.
Have you looked in their mouth and throat to see if thee are any yellow clumpy things?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Chick with protruding lower beak: Dislocation?*

Speculation: can lower beak have been dislocated? Probably would take vet to correct it if it were. Maybe Pidgey and the other experts have some ideas. 

Does the lower beak hinge open and part-way shut even a little? Someone recently posted about being very careful with the hinge or joint of the beak. (_I think_ it was PT member *kittypaws* who mentioned in one of her early reports from "Updates from the Wildlife Center - London" that she learned about being careful opening a pigeon's beak because the mandibular joint or hinge was so very delicate. 

Do they get grit, or a source of calcium? Can you list what is in their diet? 

Larry


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

Hello to all:

As I said before, neither one of them have anything yellowish inside their beaks or throats. I agree it might be a dislocation, but I really don´t remember if the chick had the beak like this when we first rescued her...although in the first pic, she is just a few days old and her beak is already not closing normally. 
She can open it more and close it too, but never completely, and she tries very hard to eat seeds, but they fall off her open mouth, maybe I should change to bigger seeds. Right now I feed them with a mush of granola (wheat, oats, corn, barley, honey, coconut and maca) and to that I add a mix of seeds I bought in a pet store, for small birds with: canary seed, italian millet, flaxseed, millet, oat, nyjer, pellets with corn meal, poultry meal, soybean meal, dicalcium phosphate, sodium chloride, dehidrated egg yolk, vitamins and minerals. And, I add a couple of drops of corn oil. Do you think it´s ok?
Thank you
Camila


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Even though you don't see any canker type growths, I would sure suspect that with the youngster with the beak that doesn't close well and that can't seem to eat adequately. It might also be a largish seed or piece of debris caught in the "jaw" area that is holding the beak open and blocking the eating of seeds. Thank you for the pictures .. they are very helpful to the members here in trying to figure out what's going on. Dislocation is a possibility too as has been posted. Is the beak firmly anchored to the body or does it seem wobbly or flimsy? Not that it matters at this point, but I think these babies are some type of dove and not pigeons.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, that looks very similar to what functionally happened to Phil's bird, "Crow-Baby", even though the cause is obviously different. In the end, Crow-Baby's upper beak essentially died or atrophied at that age and just didn't grow anymore. Due to the structural problems it began to curl up at the base but also a bit downward at the tip. It looks to me like on this one the ceres (what would be the white stuff at the base of the upper beak in an adult bird) is not developing properly and I'd suspect canker. If what I think happened happened, it's going to be a lot worse when the bird grows up and that should become more obvious with every passing week. He probably won't be able to feed himself and we're going to have to do something.

Let me see if I can find pictures of Crow-Baby at that point.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a link to a slideshow and you can really see the effect at the last picture:

http://community.webshots.com/slideshow?ID=358621324&key=GOdVmQ

I'd definitely treat for canker and then start contingency planning.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila, 


Oh!
I just spent 45 minutes making a post for you here, and proof reading it and so on, and one of the Doves landed on the mouse and an other Dove on the Keyboard, and the post disappeared instantly and I can not get it back.



I feel so frustrated I can hardly think at all now!

Oye!

But anyway...


I also feel that treating for 'Canker' would be wise.

The incomplete Feathering, the slow growth globally, both suggest a possible Trichomona involvement, even if not making those more typical symtoms we tend to look for, such as cheezy off white-yellowish lumps in the throat ( which can be too deep to see anyway sometimes ) ...or, any hints of chalky-yellow in the urates...or as liquid leaving subtle chalky yellow stains attending the poops.


Now too, this Baby might not have been getting fed enough, once seperated from it's parents.

Generally, if they are not making 45 to 50 decent poops in 24 hours, one conceeds that they are not eating or being fed enough.

Keeping them on w 'white' Towelling heps one evaluate the color and number of poops being made.


If he will eat from the hollow of a trimmed people-baby-Nipple, you can feed him nutritious formula and lots of small whole Seeds in it...and or guide his Beak such as it is, into a shot-glass of the tiniest whole dry plain Seeds and keeping your fingers on the sides of his Beak, let him 'gobble'...


He might have been injured somehow at the area of the Nares, which is more or less the 'root' also for the uper Beak's continued growth or renewal from the form it has in Babyhood.

Their upper Beak and lower Beal both are articulated, if of course more so for the lower or mandible Beak. An injury at the base tere can cause the upper Beal to bend 'up'...

Dislocations would be more probable for the Mandible Beak, since it posesses or connects with a wide low hinge, and the upper one does not.

Can you make an image which is a close up of the area of the Nares? 

Something does look odd there, or bumpy ( my 'Crow Baby' whom Pidgey mentioed, had 'buds' there which were little pink bumps merely, where some of his larger injury had occurred) and it would be good if we could see it better.



Till next...

Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Wow...


Yes, the slideshow Pidgey posted the link to shows my 'Crow Baby' during the phase of his head having been healing.

He lost all the flesh on the top of his head, and it all grew back perfectly... later, growing all it's Feathers perfectly as well.

The tan stuff on his Beak is some formula which tended to get stuck there 
somewhat.

His upper Beak never righted itself, and as Pidgey mentioned, it twisted and shrivvelled somewhat and prevented him from being able to peck seeds effectively, although he never gave up trying.

He COULD peck effectively for quite a while...and in fact was a precocious little fellow who learned to peck very soon avfter my getting him. Since he was so injured and I dared not stress his Beak for any tube-feeds, and he odulc not manage well with liquid formula, his talent for pecking was a God send for us both...so, he pecked well before his upper Beak got too distorted...and, once that happenned, we just did 'Seed-Pop' several times a day, and he was wonderful with it...but that was months later.

Seed-Pop of course is best done with the largest Seeds, and for Camila's Baby, it should be sure that his digestive system is not impeded in any way before Seed-Pops would be done for or with him.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm with Terry, I think these are a type of dove rather than pigeons.


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

Hello
The beak is attached normally to the chick´s head, and she can use it, meaning she can open it more and pick up seeds, but, this last thing with difficulty...I hope it doesn´t get worse with time...it would be so sad. I also think that for some reason the beak stopped growing, and the upper part is kind of curling a little bit...
I don´t know what species this is, but it´s quite common here in Lima, and probably it´s some kind of dove. There are so many of them everywhere.
They are so attached to us by now, they see me or my daughter and they come running, chirping and shaking their wings...and the siblings are always together, all the time. When they fly better I will let them go on the balcony so they can fly out, and come back if they want. 
I wrote down yesterday their diet, is it the right food for them?

Camila


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*More about baby with open beak*

Hello all:

Thanks for all your help. I checked the pics of Crow Baby, poor thing! What happened to him and is he ok now? My two babies look exactly like the Little Dove that is with Crow Baby, so I guess they might be the same species.
Regarding the poop qtty...oh THEY DO POOP! Both of them, they poop every 2 minutes or so! so I guess 40 to 50 poops a day is about what they leave everywhere in my room every day. We feed them 3 times a day, or when the crop is empty, sometimes 4 times.
I will try to post more pics, but I had trouble taking close-ups of her beak, but I will insist.
What exactly is canker and how can I be sure this is what my baby has? What is the treatment?

Camila


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

Camila,
When two squabs from the same nest are of different sizes and the beak of the smaller is gaping, it could be a sign of salmonella infection. These are two of the symptoms of salmonella.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Camila,

Canker or Trichomonaisis (I never know how to spell that!) is caused by a protozoa, it is characterised by cheesy lesions in the mouth and throat. The treatment is with Cardidazol or Metronidazol.

But how old was the baby when it first had trouble closing its beak? I ask because Nooti once pointed out that canker takes at least 6 days to develop, so if it was under that age then it can't be canker.

If it is canker that is causing the beak to stay open then it will be visible at the back of the mouth where the jaw joint is. My BeBe Chan had a lesion there and couldn't close his beak. Even after the lesion had gone his beak stayed slightly open, the vet said that was due to nerve damage.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That doesn't look like damage to the jaw--it looks like the upper beak is jutting upwards due to some underlying structural problem. There's a bone that acts like a strut that goes down the upper ridgeline. You can see it real well in the (a) drawing:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

If some mechanical injury or disease process messes that up, then the upper beak will usually begin to deflect upward. If the circulation to the outer portion of the beak from there on out is hampered, the beak may not continue to grow or it might even die. Kinda' hard to say, just have to watch and see. That's what happened to Crow-Baby, albeit for another reason.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If you look closely at the last picture in the series, which is a closeup of the open beak, you'll see an unnatural bend where the lip-line of the beak goes upward near the center of the nares (where the nostrils open). From that point out to the tip, there is a pronounced curvature that's highly suspect. That's why I think that something, possibly canker, has occurred inside the nasal passage where the beak attaches to the head.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Might be a good idea to take a picture with both chicks side by side and face forward. It's possible that we might see a color difference between the two beak tips. That might indicate a circulation problem.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Salmonella, canker or...???*

Would salmonella also affect the chick´s energy? You mentioned growth and beak can be affected, but she seems to be very active and normal in every other aspect, well, except her feather growth, she has no feathers around the neck and little on her head. And she can´t really fly the way the sibling does...
I will take more pics tomorrow and port them, right now is dark in here...and I will put the two chicks together too so you can see the difference in size and development. Somebody here said to me that females are slower and smaller than males, that´s why I think it´s a "she". She is really adorable...very tame and sweet. She´s very needy, always begging for food, even though we feed them 3 times a day, but it´s like when you have a disabled child, you want to give them more love and caring...same with this baby.
Will post more pics tomorrow.

Good night to all.

Camila


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

"Would salmonella also affect the chick´s energy?"

Camila, 
I suppose it would but without testing, I couldn't tell you if this is in fact, a salmonella. Just add it to your list of possibilities.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I remember a bird that got posted about on here that had the feather loss around the face like that one has. I went back to that thread and found that the link to the pictures no longer works. That bird died and I don't think we ever knew why. I'd have to think that the feather loss and the beak problem is related in this one but have no idea how it's finally going to end up. If I had the bird myself, I'd probably try treating with Metronidazole and something against Gram positive bacteria, like Clavamox, Keflex or a Tetracycline. It'd be shooting in the dark and it may not help the beak. You can see if you can get those medications (shouldn't be too hard in Lima) and if you can, somebody here will help you dose them.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*More pics*

Somebody mentioned that canker takes about 6 days to appear? My bird had something different in her beak from the moment we rescued her, and I think she was maybe 2 or 3 days old, she had no feathers at all...maybe it´s not canker...
But, it wouldn´t hurt to treat her with the medication you recommend, so I will get it at the pharmacy. When I have it maybe somebody can help me with the dosis.
I am posting more pics too.

Camila


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Pictures*

Hello
Pic 1- Can´t get a closer look of the beak, my camera doesn´t have a proper lense....
Pic 2 and 3 - Both birds together, so u can check difference in size even though they are exactly the same age


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Usually, cameras don't focus well closer than about 4 feet (1.2 meters) so it's better to be that far away and take a picture at the highest resolution that the camera will do and then chop it for posting. Go ahead and take a front-on picture like the third one with them both together with their beaks hopefully pointing forward. That might show a color difference.

The little guy's certainly got a problem though that's causing an inflammatory response over most of his head.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Wrong pic! sorry*

Don´t know what happened with the first pic! Will try again


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Let me start explaining what may have happened (just one scenario) to help give you an idea of what to be watching for. Canker is a disease where a parasitic bug that doesn't typically go floating off into the bloodstream messes around on the surfaces of epithelial layers like the insides of the throat, crop, stomach and that sort of thing. They can actually throw off some chemicals that harm the body but the worst of it is often the body's immune response being a bit excessive. In cases like that, the body can kill parts of itself and then pay the price of that overreaction. In this case, it may have occurred up in the nostrils, beyond the visible nose. If the inflammation destroyed much of the tissue at the base of the beak, then the beak may have died. Under such a circumstance, it may remain for a long time or it may become too loose to do any good at all, we don't know yet.

You should probably look into the inside of the top beak on both birds and compare the look of the tissues. It's about like the insides of our mouths and if there's a real bad problem on the little guy, it ought to be REAL apparent from that examination.

Pidgey


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Taking pictures*

Camila,

Tip: try taking picture of the pigeon's beak with a magnifying glass BETWEEN the camera and the bird.

If you don't have a magnifying glass, try aything that magnifies. You might surprise yourself with a nicely-enlarged view. 

Try a bottle, a glass, a crystal fortune-telling globe (everyone has one of those, right?), a Christmas tree silver bulb, whatever. 

A lens can be derived from many materials. 

*Pidgey*, have been Googling and researching for several hours on beaks and beak damage and beak injuries, and also for paralyzed wings (for my pigeon rescue Osk-gurr). 

Calling it a night, now, at 2:36 A.M.

Larry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tell you what, Camila... send the raw pictures (not resized or anything) to:

[email protected]

And I'll see if I can process them to find what I'm looking for. Also, if you can get the little one's beak looking straight on the camera but a little bit downward (picture from above would be nice) then send that, too.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It would be great if you could post additional pictures here as well for all the members to view. 

The other thing that many folks do is get a free account at Webshots and post
the pictures there. You don't have to resize in order to post them there, just upload. Here's a linK:

http://www.webshots.com/

Then you just post the link here for members to view.

fp


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Will take more pics*

Will follow suggestions and take more pics, though it´s hard because she is never still, and to open their beaks...Oh my gosh! But I will try.


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*More questions*

Hi:

I´m having so much trouble taking good pics so that the members can 
take a closer look to Curly´s beak...I was thinking I might as well start 
treatment for canker anyway? Will it ham the bird if she doesn´t suffer 
from it? Also, I have no idea of the dosis to give such a tiny bird. Could 
you please advise? I was told the name of the medication so I will try 
getting it asap. Now I´m concerned also about the growth of the feathers, 
Curly is totally naked all around the neck, head and part of the back, oh, 
and under the wings, while her sibling has all the feathers. Also, her 
feathers seem to fall off very easily. Might this also be because of canker?
Thank you!

Camila


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, that's got to be from something else. We see it rarely and aren't really sure what it is although a disease (viral) called "Circovirus" works that way, especially with the primary flight feathers.

Metronidazole (Flagyl) is the stuff and we'd have to dose it based on which tablet or formulation you can find.

Pidgey


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*loose feathers*



Pidgey said:


> No, that's got to be from something else. We see it rarely and aren't really sure what it is although a disease (viral) called "Circovirus" works that way, especially with the primary flight feathers.
> 
> Metronidazole (Flagyl) is the stuff and we'd have to dose it based on which tablet or formulation you can find.
> 
> Pidgey


Question -- could this be "French molt"? parakeets get it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Difficult to say, since we're not entirely sure what causes French molt (which is primarily a psittaciforme problem):

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM043

Not much by way of things can be done about that, either. I have to admit wondering if the beak problem is related to the feather problem in this case, though.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Camila said:


> Hello all:
> 
> Thanks for all your help. I checked the pics of Crow Baby, poor thing! What happened to him and is he ok now? My two babies look exactly like the Little Dove that is with Crow Baby, so I guess they might be the same species.
> Regarding the poop qtty...oh THEY DO POOP! Both of them, they poop every 2 minutes or so! so I guess 40 to 50 poops a day is about what they leave everywhere in my room every day. We feed them 3 times a day, or when the crop is empty, sometimes 4 times.
> ...


Hi Camila,


"Crow-Baby" was a more or less two week old Nestling, when attacked by Crows. This was at a Motel in Southern California, and the fellow who rescued him after his fall to t he pavement and his still being attacked by the Crows, made cell phone calls all day trying to find help for him, finally getting my number, and since he was to drive through Las Vegas anyway, he got him to me.


His upper Beak 'root' area had been pecked away, as had most of the nares area, and his head nad back were badly pecked and more or less like hamburger.


Anyway, all in all, he healed up well, grew to adulthood, and was the best Ambassador to new arrive Bords of any species, that I have ever had.

Any new Bird I would get in here, he'd immediately fly over and get next to them and be somehow SO friendly and bright and wacky, they would immediatly decide that this MUST be one happenin' scene here.


He knew various pharses in English when he heard them, and would make pantomomes or gestures in reply to things being asked of him, which communicated where he was at with one thing or another.

One of my favorite of these, was if I would ask him if he wanted a drink of Water, he would stop, lower his head, and pretend to drink, then, look at me. If he did not want a drink, he would just stop, look at me a moment, and do nothing.

Anyway, I loved Crow Baby very very much...

One day, when letting various Juvenile Birds out to Fly, he somehow got out too, and I never saw him again.

I expect he was so ecstatic to be out socializeing with the wild and feral others, and flying and exploreing and so on, that he got lost or got in trouble or got clipped by a Car. He could not feed himself by grazing or pecking, so I imagined he slowly starved to death if he was not killed by some other happenstance.

I spent many houss several times a day for more than a week, for two weeks I s'pose, looking for him, but I never found a trace.

This broke my Heart...and sometimes I still get tears rolling when I think about him.

He was such a wonderful, wacky, high-spirited and palpably happy little Pigeon...and he had survived some terrible injurys when still a Baby...and...

Thats some of it anyway...



'Canker' is the broader term usually used to denote infections or infestations of the, or one kind of, Protozoan 'Trichomona'...usually localized in any of various places in the Bird, and sometimes making for 'cheezy, pale yellow' lumps or little small curd cottage cheeze like cubes, in their Throat...or deeper where we can not readily see.


The treatment is usually any of several medicines ending in 'zole'...with Metrodizale being perhaps the best, especially for young or frail or infant Patients.

"Berimax" which is not technically a medicine, is possible an even better choice, is kindest of all to infants, but it is hard to get.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camilia, 


At least with those cases of confirmed Canker I see here, there tends to be some amount of chalky 'yellow' either as the urates ( what should be the white part of their poop, ) or, as a thin liquid rather like watewred down Water Color Paint.

So, for me, if I ever see any hints of 'yellow' in their poops, or in any dried liquid that was pooped out, I treat for Canker, whether or not I see any clinical signs otherwise...and in many cases there is nothing to see..as only some occasions have the 'cheeze' lumps in their throats where one can see it.

Have there been any hints of 'chalky yellow' in her poops or in any liquid accompanying them?


Too, these Birds appear to me to be some order of Dove...similar to but maybe a little different Feathering colors than the Mourning Doves I get here in the Southern Mojave Desert...

Doves are generally known to get Canker or Trichomona illness just as Pigeons may ( who are Doves also of course, if 'Rock Doves' in their case). may...


You are in Peru?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Noticed some "stuff" on the side of beak*

Hi:

I noticed yesterday, and today it´s getting a little bigger, that there´s some kind of brownish stuff on one side of my chick´s beak. I think that will confirm the canker diagnostic, right? I will go to the pharmacy tomorrow and get the proper med and then let you know the presentation so you can advice the dosis...
I took some more pics yesterday, and I think there are a couple of good shots of the beak, but, I had trouble first transferring them from my camera to the pc, and now, trying to post them on Webshots. I´m tired now after spending more than an hour doing this! I´ll try tomorrow again.
I´m worried about this bird, also, my daughter told me that the top of the beak (the part that attaches to the head) is a darker color than the same part in the other bird...
Another question I have is if one bird is infected, the other one might also be?
Thanks,

Camila


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Posted pics in Webshots*

http://pets.webshots.com/album/558508753xZsROV

This is the link to go to my album "Larry and Curly"
This is the best I could do, I really really tried everything, the magnifying glass, a magnifying mirror...and it didn´t work for me.
But, anyway, here are some new shots, hope it will be helpful. I would like to start giving the chick Metronidazol. I got it in 500 mg tablets. How much and how should I give it to Curly? Like I said yesterday, I want to try this medication, I think it might be canker because I noticed some kind of stuff in one side of the beak, that she didn´t have 3 days ago...

Phil:
It´s a sad story with your Crow-Baby, and that is what I fear might happen with my birds once they are adults...they will leave and somehow get killed because they don´t know how to survive...It happened to me many years ago, I found a really tiny baby dove, and nursed it, and became so attached to me, it would fly from everywhere he was to land on my shoulder or my head. He even went out, spent the day on the tree tops, and when I came out to the backyard, he would fly back to me. He lived for 1 year, until...my mother saw how a cat killed him. He wasn´t afraid of cats or dogs (we had them at home too), so, he didn´t think he was in danger...I cried for my Lucifer (that was his name) a lot. Now I don´t want this to happen to my new babies...

Camila


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Crow Baby may still be having fun out there ....*

Phil, Camila, others,

I followed the thread of *Crow Baby* very closely when he was a daily subject on PT. When he flew off, I missed him. There are some pigeons on PT that come into our lives, even though we know them only thorugh internet descriptions, or photos, who never really leave our hearts.

HOWEVER ...

Last Sunday Hilde was a block or so away from our apartment, between roughly 100-200 meters, when she saw *Mr. Fifty* for the first time since last mid-July. She returned home *ecstatic*.

I rescued Mr. Fifty on Hilde's 50th birthday last June 5th at the paper and glass and packing materials recycling containers. He was by himself, apart from the others.

*He had been scalped, had PMV, was severely underweight, flew backwards, held head upside-down.*

We kept him in a pet carrier, with plenty of exercise time, for five weeks. He recovered from the PMV, and interacted with the squeakers our male pigeon* Wieteke* was raising with his feral mate *Mamieke*. Wieteke let Mr. Fifty know that he was impinging on his territory, and Mamieke was alarmed because of the obvious dangerous illness of Mr. Fifty, and gave the danger "hehh" call to warn others away. She wasn't happy abot having him around. We were very protective of him. 
He never really did anything unusual or different, but he became vey dear to us. Can't describe why.

His voice changed during the time we had him, and he roo-cooed the females. I noted tat he flew better when negotiating longer distances than shorter distances. In mid-July after sitting on a window ledge for an hour or so, he decided for independence. 

We looked for him, but it is not always easy to cover certain areas here. Hilde saw him last Sunday, bald head, looking very fit and otherwise like any other normal pigeon. Our apartment is mid-way between where we found him the first time and where Hilde saw him last.

When I confirm personally that it is indeed him (but how many other scalped pigeons looking like Mr. Fifty can there be in this neighborhood?) I am ging to make a big announcement in a separate thread in PT, with photos (which he deserves, but I couldn't let the mention of Crow Baby pass without interjecting this positive or optimistic note. I even hope that we may see our missing *Pidgiepoo* again someday). 

*Scalped pigeons can survive the winter.* (It was a relatively mild winter in Cologne, Germany, but we did have below-freezing weather).

*PMV (ParaMyxoVirus) survivors can do well on their own.* (I am not saying all do; just that it is possible and not always all gloomy out there.)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

On the Metronidazole, there's quite a wide margin. In (at least one of) the old formularies, it was 10-30 mg/kg, PO, BID, which means 10 to 30 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily. Nowadays, you see numbers like 200 to 250 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, once daily.

Just guessing at a weight for this bird, I'd probably say in the 60 gram range. That means that you'd have a medicine range of 0.6 to 1.8 milligrams for the low dosage range (and twice a day) up to 15 full milligrams for the extreme dose (the 250).

Now, the fun of getting in the bird works like this: you can crush a portion of the pill up into a known quantity of water and then shake it thoroughly every time you're going to give the bird some and suck the amount up with a syringe OR you can whittle off a piece of the pill and give it to the bird by way of simply dropping it down his throat. I'll work on the first one in the next post but will tell you know that for the exteme dose (which I'd give as the first one right now) would be almost perfectly equal to carving a ball equal in size to the middle of this typed letter on your screen: "o"

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As to mixing it up in water, you can probably cut the pill up in quarters pretty easily. If you grind one quarter (1/4th) of the pill up and mix it with 10 milliliters of water, you can give him one milliliter per day for the next ten days. Let's start it at that level and maybe taper off after we see how he's doing in a few days.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Dosis*

Pidgey

Thanks for the instructions, will start inmediately. One more question: should I treat the sibling too? He might be infected too although he shows no symptoms, right?

Camila


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the pictures, Camila. To me, that sure looks like a canker mass that is pushing the beak open and blocking that side of the mouth. 

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Camila,

Oddly enough, they're better protected by having an ongoing immunity to the organism if it works out that way. By that, I mean that if they don't develop the clinical disease while being infected, it's better for them in the wilds. If you were to release the bird, they'd certainly get reinfected out in the big, wide world. Virtually all the birds that you see have it and live with it. It's when the body goes too wild trying to get rid of it that it becomes a problem and you get the clinical disease. The worst part for the sick one is that it might get reinfected from the other one by eating out of the same bowl and drinking the same water. So, I'd probably treat them both for now since they're still living together. At this point, it's unlikely that the sick one will ever be able to make it on his own in the world, so if he makes it at all it'll probably be because of your continued care throughout his life. Hopefully, we'll find a way to cope with his problems that'll allow him to self-feed later on.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila, Pidgey, alll...


Camila, are there any hints of "yellow" or chalky-yellow in ay of the poops, or tinting any liquid which accompanys the poops?


Too, in looking at the images, I am less certain it is the Uper Beak at all which is 'out'...the uper Beak on Both Birds seems about the same, while, the lower Beak seems to be the slightly out or off to me now...


What do you think?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*One of them flew away*

Hmmmm...Phil, I don´t think the lower beak is the problem...I´ve compared both bird´s beaks and Curly´s is shorter and very curved, also it´s not aligned (horizontally). Also, about tints of yellow in the poop, I really don´t see any...
So, I have bad news...just went out to the balcony where I leave the birds, and the bigger and healthy sibling is gone...I don´t know if it flew away, there are so many trees around. Will he be able to come back? I hope so, he is still a baby...
I started the medication on both birds last night too.

Camila


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Better keep your patient indoors so that he won't fly away, I guess, because he certainly can't make it on his own yet. The other one may come back but there's no way to tell.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Camila, I am so sorry to read that the larger dove is gone. They need to be kept inside. Could a cat or other large bird like a crow have taken the dove? Please keep a "look out" in case he comes back or you find him on the ground.


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*I found him!*

After I wrote the last e-mail I went outside to look for the fugitive, and luckily, somebody had seen him sitting in my next door neighbor´s front yard. So, I went there, and brought him back home. We were lucky! Now he´s inside pooping all over the house, ha ha.
I noticed that on the sick baby´s neck, she seems to have these yellow color "growths", around every little feather´s root...like a yellow pimple, I just don´t know how to describe it. And in that area (the front of the neck, under the beak down to the crop) she also has almost no feathers at all. Is that a symptom? She also seems to be scratching her head pretty often, like something is bothering her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I'm sure that it is bothering her. The yellow stuff is mostly comprised of inflammatory debris (spent leukocytes). What that means is that the body is responding to something by way of increasing the quantity of certain immune cells in the blood. They attack whatever they think shouldn't be there. Where they gather such that you can see visible yellow stuff is where the fight is really going on hot and heavy. If they get so excited that they start attacking the body's own normal cells, then you've got what's called an "autoimmune disorder".

Normally, I don't think canker wouldn't be outside on the skin making trouble in the feather follicles so that deserves some more research. However, that yellow thing in the left side of his beak looks an awful lot like canker. It's possible that a true, active canker could be causing a more spread out autoimmune response that's causing those other symptoms.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Camila, that is wonderful news that you were able to find the other baby.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila, 


Yes, opnce you have obtained the appopriate medications, you should treat both Doves...


I have seen areas of their skin be powdery-yellow, in areas where an abcess was underneath...

But I myself have never seen 'yellow' granules or other on or in Feather follicles, so I have no idea what would be doing that, but, it m-i-g-h-t be some unusual presentation of Trichomona/Canker related auto-imune response...but it might not.

Time will tell, or at any rate, once you are treating them with the medications, we shall see what becomes of that aspect/symptom...

I'd see no harm for now to apply say, 'Neosporin' TO the skin which shows this affliction, just to see what it might do to help...it can suffocate some kinds of Follicle Mites...as well as sooth dry areas of skin problems...


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Update*

Hello all

So, nothing new or interesting, but I just wanted to give a short update. I am giving both birds metronidazole, I crushed a pill and give them a very small piece mixed with some food, which I introduce in their throats and make sure they swallow. It´s too soon to see any change, but both babies seem to be ok, active as always. I feel sorry for my sick baby, she is so desperate to fly...but she can´t, not even a short distance, probably she doesn´t have enough feathers. Oh, one small improvement is that tiny little feathers are starting to grow on her back! Hope this is a good sign. But she looks soo ugly...my brother came to visit and his comment was..."how´s your chick from Chernobyl doing?"...that´s how ugly she looks. Thank God she is not aware of that!
Anyway, if there´s any improvement or change I´ll keep everyone posted.
Thanks for your support!

Camila


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I will also say that if you handle the woowee out of them while feeding them (holding them still), you can irritate the feather follicles to the point of causing a local alopecia that can become pretty chronic. You usually only see that on the worst fighters that squirm with every meal.

If the follicles are yellow due to something like a Staphylococcus bacteria, then the Neosporin ointment might help. As long as it's not getting worse, I'd hold off until I'd given about three days of the Metronidazole to see whether it's helping.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Update*

Hi

So, I´ve been giving my babies the metrodinazole, and I don´t want to sound too optimistic, but it seems that my ugly chick is getting a little better...her beak seems to be closing just a little, like it is in a better position...and she also eats very well, she can pick up seeds and seems to have a good appetite too!! Tomorrow I will take both to the vet though, because their skin on their necks is full of yellow bumps and without feathers, and I think that might be something not related to the canker thing. So, hopefully the vet will know what to do.
Will keep you posted.

Camila


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila,



Very glad to hear things seem to be on the up-swing...

Do be careful to make sure you are within bounds of the right dosage-per-day for their weight.


The Tablets you have, are there any instructions or dosage indications on the Package or Bottle?


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The "ugly chick"? C'mon, have a heart!

Anyhow, it doesn't seem to me that the yellow stuff on the surface of the skin would be related to the stuff in the aesthetically-challenged one's beak. I'd tend to think more that it was some other infection, like some kind of "Gram+" bacteria like a Staphylococcus species. However, they can get fungal infections and I suppose if they've been getting fed in such a way as to get some on their necks from your handling of them, that could be also be a problem. It may be necessary for your vet to take some of that stuff out of a follicle so affected and examine it under a microscope to see what it is.

If it's fungal, then there is a fairly simple medical treatment that has been used effectively on birds' skin--it's a mixture of 3 grams of salicylic acid (aspirin), 3 grams of tannic acid in 100 milliliters of ethyl alcohol applied twice a week. You don't want to get too much of that on a bird at a time as it can literally soak through their skin enough to get them drunk. Hopefully, your vet can figure it out, though.

Pidgey


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Visit to the vet*

Hello all

So I took my babies to the vet yesterday, I found a doctor who specializes in birds, so that was good. He looked at my ugly chick (I say this with love!!!! LOL), and said that the beak is a congenital deformity, he was born like this, also the lack of feathers is something that some birds suffer from, but 
he said that eventually they will grow, it´s just taking longer...nothing to worry about. Then he took samples of the follicles that have this yellow bumps attached to them, and looked under the microscope. It is not a parasite or fungus, just dirt! Probably from the food I was giving them. So they have to take a bath in warm water and then blow dry them. I mentioned canker inside the beak, and he said he didn´t see any of the canker symptoms in my bird. But, I gave them metronidazole for almost a week, so, it might be gone by now...who knows.
He also recommended different food, corn, oats and wheat, so, I´m already giving them that. He also said that in 20 days or so they will be able to be released. So, this is the last update, everything seems to be ok for now.

Camila


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Thank you for the update, Camila!!!

We all wish the best for your pijies! 

So far, so good...

Please keep us updated and

LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES TO ALL!!     

Shi 
& Mr. Squeaks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila, 



Well, hmmmmmm...who knows? - maybe that Beak will straighten out a little more as he grows...

In theory, it should be possible to make a diorthotic or orthopaedic 'brace' which would excert slight pressure in a deferential way to help straighten it to a more normal and effecient form...but of course he would probably hate it being there.

As long as it ends up to where he can self-feed and get most sizes of Seeds, and drink alright, and preen, then who cares? It is a 'success'..!


If you can, check your local area for Farm and Feed Supply places...and call around to see who carrys honest to goodness 'Pigeon' Seed mix.

These will have a variety of small dried whole Peas ( not the same as the stuff one sees in grocery stores in the bagged dry bean sections, ) as well as other grains. All Pigeons LOVE these little round 'Peas'...

Few Pigeons like Wheat it seems, at least around here anyway...

Corn, especially for young ones or margainal ones, should be very small kernal kinds. Recent-date ( unpopped of course, and 'plain' type with nothing on it or added of ) Pop Corn is excellent...


Well...treating for Canker was a good idea no matter...so at least 'that' is done.


You can also ( next time you are at a Health Food Store, ) get some 'Udos' brand ( small package or bottle, of powder ) 'Pro-Biotics' and also a small container of powder 'Digestive Enzymes'...and...get a small new Bottle of Olive Oil also...and get a package of 'Goji-Berrys' too...

Lightly 'glisten' a half-a-coffee can size bunch of Seeds with a little Olive Oil, stirr till all is evenly glistened, but just enough Oil so they will be barely 'glistened'...

Then sprinkle some of these powders on the Seeds and stirr till all is evenly distributed.

Then, when they are pecking these Seeds they will be getting the 'powders' also, as well as the benifits of the Olive Oil.

Only make up enough Seeds for say a day or so, since the Oil will become rancid on exposure to air...so, just make up what they will eat in a day...

Do that a few times...then set these powders in the 'frige for some future needs or other.



You can also sprinkle Brewer's Yeast Powder...plain Garlic Powder...or just add fresh minced Garlic...sprinkle powdered 'Super Greens' as well as giving them cut up tiny bits of fresh Greens such as Kale, Collard, Endive, Cilantro...and or as well guide them to peck off bites on their own...


The Goji Berrys, if they will eat them...just cut them into thirds or fourths since they are too big to peck when whole...they are soft so any knife or Scizzors will work fine. These are very good for them and a dozen or so a-day is excellent for them.


If you are doing 'Seed-Pop' with your Beak-problem one, then pre-soak the Goji-Berry pieces so they are soft and Seed-Pop those.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks Phil!

I will try to find the powder you mention. Here in Peru things are a little bit different, and the products you mention can only be found in some stores, but I can try. The corn I´m giving them is broken into very small pieces, not the pop corn kind. The funny thing is that the chick with the open beak tries and eats more than the other one! I don´t quite understand why, but he doesn´t want to eat, not by himself, nor by hand...until it´s late in the afternoon and he is so hungry and starts begging for food, but we have to force him to eat the grain. I noticed this behavior like a week or so ago, wonder why? These kind of doves here in Lima eat mainly corn, and do you know how they get it? There is a huge pasta, bread and bakery factory a few miles from here, and the grain comes in ships which store these mountains of grain in their storage area, wich is not covered, so very early in the morning you can see thousands of birds feasting in the grain, funny, right?
After they are full they fly back to the areas with trees and stay there the whole day.
I don´t know what doji-berries are, will have to look for the translation...oh also, the doctor told me to give them boiled "quinoa". Have you heard about this grain? It is original from the Andes region, a very small round seed, smaller than rice, but with 3 times the amount of protein than rice, very nutricious. So I will try to see if they like this later.
Thank you all for your help and concern, you are really such a nice group. I will keep everybody posted, and I will also send pics when my ugly chick turns into a beautiful dove!
Regards to all

Camila

ps. I´m attaching a pic of me and my daughter. I am in the middle, my daughter is on the left (the blonde girl with the red cap) and the girl on the right is my daughter´s cousin. This way you can meet the face that goes with the e-mail.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Beautiful pic of you and the girls, Camila. It is nice to be able to put a face to the wonderful people who care and help our birds.
I didn't know quinoa is so nutritious. I bought it once for my birds and mixed it with the other seeds but they didn't really eat much of it. Every night I found it left over in their bowls together with the flax seeds. And those are the most expensive seeds, I guess they don't know it. 

Make sure the "ugly duckling" is able to eat well on his/her own before release.

Please keep us updated.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Camila, 


Oh, I forgot you are in Peru..!

Doves and Pigeons need to eat 'raw' Grains and raw Greens...

Nothing 'boiled'...or cooked.

If something is toxic unless boiled or cooked, may as well just stay away from it in the first place.



"Goji-Berrys" come from China and Thibet and other Asiatic regions...are about 1/2 an inch long and 3/16ths of an inch arouns in their middles, and tend to come dried or semi-dry. They are a soft bodied sort of elongate shaped 'Berry'...

Anyway, easy to get here in any Chineese or Oriental Market, or Health Food Store...

They are a 'universal' nutritious Fruit which all Doves and Pigeons and likely just about any other kind of Bird can safely eat...and are very rich in antioxidents, Vitamines, and minerals...nourishing their immune system and system(s) generally...




Being these are smallish Birds, these Doves, any sort of small Seeds which are not wierd or toxic, any grains people can eat 'raw', should be fine...

Cracked Corn is not good, as it is already lost it's Kernal's skin and began to oxidize loosing important Nutritional value...

Small whole Seeds which are wholesome and not broken are best.

Likely just about any sort of Corn is going to be too large for these Doves anyway...but certainly many other 'small' whole Grains are a comfortable size for them.

White Safflower Seeds in moderation, should be fine to mix with other Seed kinds...



Also fresh Greens of any 'dark' Green kind...anything that people can eat raw, they can eat also. 

My two Mourning Doves fly over any time I have a sandwhich since I make sandwhiches with fresh Cilantro, Collard Greens, Mustard Greens and so on, and they wish to bite of little bites for themselves...

Usually I just set some whole Leaves aside for them to peck and bite off little bites off for their very own.



Show them how good they are be eating some in front of them and making comments about how nice they taste and so on, to see if you can get them interested.

Or too, cut some up into tiny diamond shapes with Scizzors let them see you doing it, and make a little pile of this for them, next to their Seeds.

Any people-food kind of small Seeds which one can chew and eat raw, and that taste good, that are not dried out and brittle, should be fine for them...



Millet, Milo, Maise, Safllower, Buckwheat, Rapeseed, Linseed, or any traditional "Finch" or "Canary" Seed mixes are excellent...

Small, whole dried Peas likewise, if you can get the 'small' varietys of them.


Have fun...!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Camila,

It is so nice of you to share the picture of yourself and family thank you.

I am glad the baby doves are doing so well.

Thank you for the update.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Camila,

How NICE to meet you and the girls! THANK YOU for posting!

Phil's comments about the Goji Berries are right on! These little berries are supposed the strongest antioxidant foods around. Hope you can find them in Peru. BTW, they also come covered in Yogurt or Dark Chocolate! Squeaks doesn't get those...I ENJOY!!   

We look forward to updates so please keep us posted!

HUGS TO ALL

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## Camila (Mar 25, 2007)

*Sad news*

Dear all

Something terrible happened today, and I am so sad I thought maybe writing about it might help me. The dog here in our house killed my baby bird, my little chick with the curved beak. It happened in a second and I feel so guilty...instead of leaving the birds in their regular room with the door closed, as usual, I left them in the kitchen, closed the door and made sure the dog wasn´t there...but, apparently the dog pushed the door open when he heard my Curly trying to fly (it´s a heavy swing door, I never thought the dog could push it open). So, a few minutes later, I heard my mom calling me, the dog had killed the bird. I felt so angry, at myself, at the dog..at life that had been so short for this sweet little bird. She was so loving with people, and seemed so happy, always chirping, always excited, running all over the place and greeting us when she saw us. I´ve never seen a bird so tamed and seeking human company. The other bird (her sibling) is not like that at all. Curly would baffle her little wings and jump like she was flying, and we would laugh at her efforts. She was already part of us and was doing so well, eating all by herself, her beak so much better, almost normal (you couldn´t believe it) and slowly growing all her feathers. My daughter and me loved her so much because it was our little disabled "child". And now she´s gone and we can´t stop feeling this emptyness, even though it was just a bird, it was a creature that brought a lot of joy to our lives. 
I though I might share this with all of you, and apologize for not taking all the precautions to avoid this accident. Hope Curly is up there, flying free and happy in a place better than this. We will always remember her.
Our other little fellow is doing very well, growing and getting stronger. We will double the precautions with him, and let nature decide if he leaves to the wild or stays here. I hope he can return to the wild, these kind of doves here don´t form groups or flocks, they are solitaire birds, so that might help him as he doesn´t have to be accepted in a group.
Good night to all,

Camila


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Camila, I am SO sorry to hear about Curly!

There are been tradegies like you describe posted before on our site. They never get easier to face!

Unfortunately, a split second can make such a difference!

Sending COMFORTING HUGS and WARM HEALING THOUGHTS...

Shi


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Camila, I am also very sorry but we all make mistakes.


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