# Sick homing pigeon!



## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Two days ago, I noticed one of my homing pigeons started to act a little weak, like something was starting to affect his system. He was standing around with very slightly puffed up feathers and a noticeable loss of energy. I took him out of the loft and quarantined him in a sick bird area, giving him acidophilus and hoping he might pull through by the next morning (I have had weak birds like this just get better overnight before).

However, he has not gotten better, but worse. I have only dealt with canker before, and I don't know what this is. He stopped eating, then stopped drinking. I have had to hand-feed him three times a day, and I have been giving him a little capsule of acidophilus with each feeding. He seems to be digesting the food much slower than usual, and has been using up more water than normal. His nostrils seem soft and 'deflated', but there is no 'runny nose' when I lightly press on them. His poo has been watery and a light greenish color, but does not have a noticeable odor. His crop seems to be baggy and almost lower than it normally is, like it is sagging. Another odd fact is when I hold him, his body is sometimes shivering lightly although it is warm where he is, and when he stands at rest, he hangs his head out and towards the ground in a crescent-shaped arch, although I can hear no problem with him breathing.

I really care about my birds and am torn when seeing them like this, does anyone know what this could be? He has been hanging on for two nights and not pulling out, and the only medication I have for pigeons is Spartrix for canker. Does anyone think this could be a bacterial intestinal infection, and might the spectovet tablets from Foy's pigeon supplies help?

If you might know anything that would help, please reply! Thank You!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I myself would go ahead and treat and treat him with both meds, the Spartrix and the Spectovet. With him obviously acting unwell, the Spartrix (one 10mg tablet once a day for 3-4 days) will treat for canker issues, and although I have not used the Spectovet myself before, I had a look, and its by Vetafarm and it indicates it will treat for E.Coli, salmonella, streptococcus, staphylococcus and mycoplasma, so it is quite broad spectrum and there is a good chance of what is affecting him is bacterial in nature, the Spectovet will help.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Karyn,


"Spectovet" sounds lik it could be very handy.

Any idea where to get it from here in the U.S.?


Phil
Lv


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Karyn,
> 
> 
> "Spectovet" sounds lik it could be very handy.
> ...


Phil, here are a few links:

http://www.lesserseedfinch.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=163

http://store.mfgouldianfinches.com/vesp20gm.html

Karyn


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Or

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-1490/SPECTOVET-100-tablets/Detail.bok

(Got some myself couple of weeks back)


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks so much Dobato, I will order the spectovet from foy's this morning because I don't have it on hand... I looked at the spartrix box directions and it says to only give one tablet, one time. Is three tabs more effective when fighting canker? I looked in his mouth and I don't see any signs of canker.

Do you think some garlic oil pills might help combat the infection if there is one? Also, he only manages to digest about a third of his normal food intake... do you think this could be slow crop?

Never had a pigeon this sick... I hope he gets better soon.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Faith72,


Can you post some images of the Pigeon? Side views, front view, taken from his own Eye level?


Also, some good, in focus, close-ups of his freshest poops?


'Spartix' dosage is actually 1/2 a Tablet a-day, for an average weight Pigeon.

Do you have any way to weigh this Bird?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith, I would not wait to order in something, unless you did next day delivery, as this little guy sounds pretty sick and the sooner, IMO, he gets started on some meds the better, and an important part of this would be a broad spectrum antibiotic. If you, or your friends, have any antibiotics around for themselves or children (or even their pets) there are a number of antibiotics that could work and I will help you mix a capsule/tablet into a form that could be given to your bird.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Faith72 said:


> Two days ago, I noticed one of my homing pigeons started to act a little weak, like something was starting to affect his system. He was standing around with very slightly puffed up feathers and a noticeable loss of energy. I took him out of the loft and quarantined him in a sick bird area, giving him acidophilus and hoping he might pull through by the next morning (I have had weak birds like this just get better overnight before).



You need to 'quarenteen' him in an individual Observation Cage...line the Cage bottom with White Paper Towels, so you can see, count, and photograph the poops/urates, and, post images of the Bird, and, of his freshest poops.




> However, he has not gotten better, but worse. I have only dealt with canker before, and I don't know what this is. He stopped eating, then stopped drinking. I have had to hand-feed him three times a day, and I have been giving him a little capsule of acidophilus with each feeding. He seems to be digesting the food much slower than usual, and has been using up more water than normal. His nostrils seem soft and 'deflated', but there is no 'runny nose' when I lightly press on them. His poo has been watery and a light greenish color, but does not have a noticeable odor. His crop seems to be baggy and almost lower than it normally is, like it is sagging. Another odd fact is when I hold him, his body is sometimes shivering lightly although it is warm where he is, and when he stands at rest, he hangs his head out and towards the ground in a crescent-shaped arch, although I can hear no problem with him breathing.


See above...



> I really care about my birds and am torn when seeing them like this, does anyone know what this could be? He has been hanging on for two nights and not pulling out, and the only medication I have for pigeons is Spartrix for canker. Does anyone think this could be a bacterial intestinal infection, and might the spectovet tablets from Foy's pigeon supplies help?
> 
> If you might know anything that would help, please reply! Thank You!



Check his Crop by feeling gently, and, see if you can determine if there are any lingering contents, and, if so, whether they feel like seeds, Water, mush, hard-dough, or what...and let us know.

Also if his Crop seems to be still sagging or too low.

Images of him from his own eye level would greatly help.


If his Crop has not been passing, please stop force feeding.


Please let Karyn know what Medicines you either have on hand, or, in addition what medicines you can get from Pigeon friends close by.

Without more info, and, images, we can not narrow this down very well to decide which specific procedures, regimen, or meds might be best to try.


Let us know?


Best wishes!




Phil
Lv


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm trying to post some pictures of him here, but it asks me to enter a URL? I'm not on any picture-posting sites on the web. I have the pictures on my computer, and I looked for a way to put them on my profile here to redirect the URL to the pics here so I can post them, but how do I get the images from my computer to this site? Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not seeing a way... anyone know how? I have to do bird care now, but will be back online around 9:30.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Faith72 said:


> I'm trying to post some pictures of him here, but it asks me to enter a URL? I'm not on any picture-posting sites on the web. I have the pictures on my computer, and I looked for a way to put them on my profile here to redirect the URL to the pics here so I can post them, but how do I get the images from my computer to this site? Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not seeing a way... anyone know how? I have to do bird care now, but will be back online around 9:30.




Scoll a little lower...elect "Manage Attachments"...under the 'Brouse' option, select the image location in your Computer.

Generally it is a lot easier to just put the images on to Web Shots or Fotki or other free image hosting sights, and, elect the URL they offer for posting an image in a Forum, since this automatically sizes the image to an appropriate density/dpi or 'size'.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks so much, pdpbison, I will try and post them right away!


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, here are some pictures of him and recent fecal matter. 








Notice how his head and neck are kind of curved, he has been like this since he got sick. The little bit of yellow near his beak is spilled food from feeding him; I do not overfill his crop, I feed him when his crop is about half to three-quarters empty and I give him warm water more frequently when his crop begins to feel like it is running out of liquid (he uses water faster than food). I feed him wet, warm nutrena top flight pigeon pellets, what he was eating before he was sick, plus an acidophilus capsule at each feeding. His crop still seems to sag more than normal, plus the skin on the outside almost looks irritated, with little reddish flecks of color right underneath the skin.








This is his most recent poop, his poops have turned an almost yellowish color since yesterday and droppings are smaller and wetter. He is also imbalanced when walking. He is still hanging in there, but I am afraid he might quietly pass on through the night. I have no way to weigh him, but when compared to other homing pigeons his age, he is lighter than he should be (of course) due to this sickness. 

The only meds I have on hand are spartrix tablets, but there is a neighbor I will call who had some dog medication, I can call him tomorrow morning (he’s asleep now) and tell you guys what he has to see if anything might work. 

Thank you so much again.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

No images are present in the Post.

If the Crop is not emptying fully, there may be some rotting or solidifed mass or inflammitory debris occupying the lower area...unless you allow the Crop to empty, it would be hard to palpate or feel to evaluate this.

Can tiy check his Throat?

If seeing 'yellow' Urates, especially if they are like flat 'paint' instead of a thick paste - you may as well treat for Canker...

Are you able to Tube Feed? Or, how have you been feeding him?


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, here are some pictures attached of him and recent fecal matter. 

Notice how his head and neck are kind of curved, he has been like this since he got sick. The little bit of yellow near his beak is spilled food from feeding him; I do not overfill his crop, I feed him when his crop is about half to three-quarters empty and I give him warm water more frequently when his crop begins to feel like it is running out of liquid (he uses water faster than food). I feed him wet, warm nutrena top flight pigeon pellets, what he was eating before he was sick, plus an acidophilus capsule at each feeding. His crop still seems to sag more than normal, plus the skin on the outside almost looks irritated, with little reddish flecks of color right underneath the skin.

This is his most recent poop, his poops have turned an almost yellowish color since yesterday and droppings are smaller and wetter. The other image with multiple poos is from when I found him standing in a corner of the loft and first noticed he was not feeling well. He is also imbalanced when walking. He is still hanging in there, but I am afraid he might quietly pass on through the night. I have no way to weigh him, but when compared to other homing pigeons his age, he is lighter than he should be (of course) due to this sickness. 

The only meds I have on hand are spartrix tablets, but there is a neighbor I will call who had some dog medication, I can call him tomorrow morning (he’s asleep now) and tell you guys what he has to see if anything might work. 

Thank you so much again.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Sorry, just noticed the post before the last one without any images... was trying to get the images to work.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

And yes, I have been feeding him with a syringe.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

There's no solid masses or chunks in the crop unless the crop is getting low on water, then the whole crop begins to feel less pliable. When he has adequate water (I try to monitor this a few times a day) the whole crop just feels watery and baggy.

There is also nothing I can see which is abnormal in his throat.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...hmmmmmm...

I don't know what this is, but, it does not appear to co-respond to Canker to my experience.

Being on those 'pellets' is throwing the poops off from what Seeds would be doing, so that makes it harder to find hints or cues there.

Urates appear white and a little off, but...


If I got this Pigeon in just as we see him, I think I would stagger his Meds several hours from his feed times, and, feed times would get an anti-yeast/candida medication added ( such as Medistatin ) and the Meds otherwise, a good Triple Sulfa, and, some Enroflaxyn ( or try that "Spectovet" medicine )...and ACV Water for drinking and tube-feed-chow-mixing.

I would keep Metronidazole handy, to possibly add along with those.


That's my best shot on this.


Yeast infection...and, likely some Bacterial thing...


Lets see what Karyn has to say.


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Has he ever been Wormed?

Had he been flying out of doors much prior to this?


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks so much for the info pdpbison, say, where would you recommend ordering the meds from (I usually get pigeon-related stuff from foy's), and this may sound like a dumb question, but what is ACV water?

And no, he has never been wormed, he is only about two and a half months old. He was flying with my other pigeons prior to this, but I am training them to come back to and enter the loft ASAP so they would not have time to peck around on the ground during this training.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

ACV water = Apple Cider Vinegar, never mind. How much vinegar would you use per quart of water, and I need to use the real stuff, not the apple cider _flavored_ vinegar, right?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith, were are you roughly, as there are some meds that can be bought at tropical fish stores that may work? Does not look well at all, but the is fecal matter and a fair amount of fluids in his droppings so his GI is still moving.

You can use 2-3 teaspsoons of ACV per quart of water.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

The city I am closest to which has good pet stores is Redding, CA. There's a Petsmart, Petco, and some other pet stores as well as feed stores. I have looked in those places before and none sell bird medication, but I think they have fish medications...? What do you suggest?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith72 said:


> The city I am closest to which has good pet stores is Redding, CA. There's a Petsmart, Petco, and some other pet stores as well as feed stores. I have looked in those places before and none sell bird medication, but I think they have fish medications...? What do you suggest?


Here is a short list of tropical fish stores in your area:

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=Reddi...gc.r_pw.&fp=ddc09290bc24c8ee&biw=1287&bih=717

Call and see if they have two meds, one is called Triple-Sulfa by API and the other is a med called Metroplex by Seachem (this is Metronidazole). You can also call or visit any farm and feed suppliers and see if they have a med called Sulmet or Albon, if they do not have these, see what they do have in the way of broad spectrum antibiotics (you are looking for something with Sulfas or Amoxicillin preferably, but there are a few other as well that could fill in). Let us know ASAP and what your neighbor has as well.

You can go ahead and give him 1/2 a Spartrix for tonight.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks so much Dobato, I will call them tomorrow morning about the medications you mentioned. I will also call my neighbor in the morning to see what he has.

Have a good night everyone.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Faith 72,


Personally, the best thing for me about Pigeontalk, is Karyn!!


Anyway, check your Pigeon very carefully on the front, and, undersides, rib cage and so on...

Look for any tiny Body Feathers which may be slightly out of place.

His overall syndrome is not incompatible with a Pigeon who has been Shot with a Pellet Gun Pellet.

Not saying he has been shot, but, just saying, look him over VERY carefully, feel with finger tip pads for any hint of tiny 'bumps', look visually for any small mis-array of Feathers, and, let us know if you find anything.

As for his illness otherwise, if it is illness and not a Pellet Gun injury...just go ahead and call 'Foys' tomorrow and see about a second day delivery.

He is kind of young for this to be Worms, but, then again, I do not really know for certain how fast worms can catch up to a Pigeon as young as he is, for me to say for sure.

Tell us again any details, from the beginning, about his demeanor, appetite, or whatever else, as has alerted you to his maybe not feeling well.



I DO suspect Yeast or Candida troubles in his Crop and or upper GI regions...and, this often enough leads to Bacterial woes ( or Canker woes ), or, can...so, my own feeling on this so far, is to consider to treat for Candida and Bacterial troubles ( and if you have Pigeons, you may as well have some of the basic Meds on hand anyway...so...)



Best wishes you two!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Well pdpbison, he definitely does not have any wounds or gun injuries, I checked him for that when I first saw that he was not feeling well. 

The first thing I noticed was when feeding time came, he did not have that much of an appetite like the other pigeons. He just swallowed a couple of pellets, picked through the bowl a little bit for any 'choice' pellets he might find, then walked off without much more interest. I thought he might not be very hungry, maybe he ate more than he usually ate at the last feeding. When I came back an hour later I saw him standing in a corner with his feathers slightly puffed up, and knew by his actions and the odd poos near him something was definitely wrong. I took him out of the loft and put him in the sick cage, then began feeding him the next day when he stopped eating and drinking altogether. On that next day, about the time when he lost all interest in food and water, his neck started that weird stretch. I thought he might have trouble breathing, but there was no indication in his throat and his breathing seemed pretty normal other than a little more labored since he is sick and going through a rough time. On the second day, his nose wattles began to look slightly discolored and felt 'squishy' when pressed lightly, but he had no runny nose. Today, his wattles could be completely 'deflated' when gently pressed and were more discolored; still no runny nose. He has also seems more imbalanced today. 

I will keep you guys updated; I really hope he makes it!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Was he like moving his Crop or Neck sideways or up and down sort of?

Like a Clown might mke his exagerated tummy go up and down or sideways?


If so, I would say "Candida" is very probable...( and it tends ot be an appetite ruiner, as well as making them feel crappy globally...and or to lean over when standing, and, on and on...so, if so, then, that fits pretty well here.

"Medistatin"

And let him fast - Candida can clog them up, and, you do not want rotting food in his Crop...so, let him fast a day or two pending the meds, and, or also, you can Tube in a stouter ACV-Water soultion and it may help...say, for the tubing in, two Tablespoons of ACV to a Quart of Water.


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

He does not move his neck in ways you described, but he does hang his head down with his neck stretched out and sometimes shivers even though its warm. 

If the food does not move out of his system fast enough, are you suggesting I stop feeding him altogether and just syringe the ACV water in his crop? It would probably take a day and a half for the food to digest in his crop if I did not feed him at all. Should his crop be completely empty or can it be near empty when I start meds?

Also, do you think the probiotics he is being given are helping any, and would it be good to try some aloe vera juice?

It could be Candida, he seems to be feeling pretty awful overall. Thank you for your advice!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I would discontinue supplimental pro-biotics for now...

His Crop should empty in a couple hours of being fed formula food or dissolved pellets...if it is not, then it is being 'slow'.

ACV-Water can help or sometimes cure Yeast or Candida troubles, but, 'Medistatin' is better and worlks further in the GI, where, ACV-Water pretty well stops at the Stomach, far as I know.


I am not certain this is Candida, or Candida plus some Bacterial thing...but, it could be, and, if this were 'my' Bird, I would be treating for that/those, and, just see how things play from there ( but I have alll sorts of Meds on hand, and you don't! I often shift and revise Regimins as the Bird progresses or regresses - so, if you can, if you have Pigeons plural, and can afford it, do send off to Foys or Jedds or Global or whomever, and, get a handful of the aforementioned meds ).


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, I called the neighbor and he has three medications, although the expiration date on them was for last year. 

He has Cephalexin (Capsules, 500 mg each), Trednisolone (tablets, 20 mg each), and Monetamax (liquid, for putting in dog's ear when ear is infected). 

Could any of these be useful? I won't be able to get to Redding until Friday, but I have ordered Spectovet tablets from Jedds with two-day shipping. Last night I checked on the sick pigeon, and his crop was out of water again, so I syringed in warm ACV water. Last night, his crop was almost full of food, this morning, it is almost empty! His digestion sped up a little, I wonder if it's the ACV water or if his system is trying to fight the condition?

Thanks so much for your suggestions, please let me know if any of the neighbor's dog meds could be useful!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Cephalexin (Keflex) might. He probably weighs about 250 to 300 grams at the moment and the dose for that stuff would be 100 milligrams of pure medicine per kilogram of bird, twice daily. That said, he'd need about 25 milligrams in the first shot, so about 1/20th of that capsule. That means that you'd take the capsule and dump the contents into 20 mL (20 cc) of water, shake well and dose him about 1 mL (1 cc). 

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The "Trednisolone" is probably actually "Prednisolone", which is another version of "Prednisone", which is a steroid (very contraindicated here). It would have just about the opposite effect of an antibiotic in that it would suppress the immune response.

The "Monetamax" is probably "Mometamax", which is a topical ear drop (otic ointment) with antibacterials in it for surface treatment, also of no use here.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't worry about expiration dates on these things--most of the time they're useless. They REALLY matter on certain wormers like Ivomec, but not a lot on most other things.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, as Pidgey says, the Cephalexin may do the job, mix as instructed and get him going on it as ASAP. The only small thing I would change that Pidgey has instructed is instead of 20mL (4 baking/measuring teaspoons) I would use 10mL (2 teaspoons) of water, this will give a concentration of 50mg/mL, so this way you will only need to give 0.50cc (1/2mL, 25mg, or about 10 drops for a reference amount) this may be a little easier for you to get into him, just give him a drop or two at a time, you will do this twice a day, q12h. Also, still check the tropical fish stores for both of the other meds as well. So for now you will be dosing 1/2 a Spartrix a day and 0.50cc (25mg) of Cephalexin twice a day and using ACV in his water. Please keep us informed on the other meds.

Shake the prepared medicine very well before each use and refrigerate between use.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you so much; I actually mixed 1 capsule (contents) with 40ml water to give him 2ml for each dose. Its easier to get the exact amount that way because I am using a 60ml syringe, plus its not hard to get all the medication into his mouth because I have some experience with hand-feeding young and adult pigeons. 

I will continue to give him 25mg Cephalexin twice a day plus half a tab of Spartrix and ACV water, but how much food should I give him? Should I continue to feed him until the crop is nearly full, or half full, or ? I gave him a little food this morning and when I gave him the Cephalexin this afternoon, he only had a little bit of food left in his crop. His digestion has sped up since yesterday.

Also, the ACV water won't interfere with the drug, I'm assuming?

I have not asked the pet stores if they have the fish medications yet because I am unable to get to Redding for a day or two anyway and was extremely busy today, but I will try to check into it when I can get to Redding.

Please let me know how much I should feed him tomorrow morning if anyone can so I can feed him the right amount while he is on the medication. Thank you so much, I will keep you informed on his status!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith, if you feel you are getting able to measure 2mL at a time with a 60mL syringe then continue as you are, but if you get a chance you may want to pick up a 3cc and 1cc syringe to have a round to be a little more precise in doing the measuring.

Right now, I myself would not feed him until his crop is almost full, perhaps 1/2 full and do this 2-3 times a day, depending on how his crop is emptying. Glad to hear you feel is crop is moving a bit better and slightly acidic crop/GI tract, which the ACV will bring about, will be good for beneficial bacteria and make a less friendly environment for pathogens, and will not interfere with the meds he is on.

You may want to call the stores I linked before, as sometimes a store can get things in within a day, if they are out of stock and it will save you some time by calling ahead to know who has what.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Okay, I will call the pet stores today to ask if they have the fish meds you listed earlier. Also, do you have any idea where I might be able to buy syringes locally? I have not seen any at pet stores around here, should I try looking at a medical supply center?

He is doing same this morning, I fed him food until his crop was about half full as you suggested and am continuing the 25mg Cephalexin and 1/2 Spartrix tablet.

I will keep you informed, thank you so much for the help!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith72 said:


> Okay, I will call the pet stores today to ask if they have the fish meds you listed earlier. Also, do you have any idea where I might be able to buy syringes locally? I have not seen any at pet stores around here, should I try looking at a medical supply center?
> 
> He is doing same this morning, I fed him food until his crop was about half full as you suggested and am continuing the 25mg Cephalexin and 1/2 Spartrix tablet.
> 
> I will keep you informed, thank you so much for the help!


Almost any drug store will carry them, you will need the kind without a needle attached. This is easier to find for the 1cc syringes, but any 3cc that has a luer lock needle attached, the needle can be screwed off and the collar trimmed back a bit with a sharp knife or razor to expose a bit more of the dosing tip. Do pick up the meds, if possible, as I would not mind making a change over to them from what he is currently on.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, my homing pigeon is still hanging on. He was actually swallowing a couple pieces of food on his own this morning, and seems to be digesting stuff better now. It seems like he's still weak and feels like crap, though, so he's still sick.

I picked up some smaller syringes and some T.C. Tetracycline fish medication by API yesterday in case it can be of any use now or in the future; I will pick up some Triple-sulfa or other meds today from another pet store which I did not have the time to go to yesterday. I will also check and see if the Spectovet tablets I ordered arrived yet.
I will keep you informed.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith72 said:


> Hi guys, my homing pigeon is still hanging on. He was actually swallowing a couple pieces of food on his own this morning, and seems to be digesting stuff better now. It seems like he's still weak and feels like crap, though, so he's still sick.
> 
> I picked up some smaller syringes and some T.C. Tetracycline fish medication by API yesterday in case it can be of any use now or in the future; I will pick up some Triple-sulfa or other meds today from another pet store which I did not have the time to go to yesterday. I will also check and see if the Spectovet tablets I ordered arrived yet.
> I will keep you informed.


Faith, I will keep an eye on your thread to help you mix and dose the Triple-Sulfa And Metroplex (Metronidazole) later, I think the other meds are helping, but we may see a better response when we change meds. Never hurts to have some tetracycline on hand when you have birds, but I think he needs something with a bit wider spectrum, and less bacteria that may be resistant, than the tetracycline.

Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Faith72 said:


> Hi guys, my homing pigeon is still hanging on. He was actually swallowing a couple pieces of food on his own this morning, and seems to be digesting stuff better now. It seems like he's still weak and feels like crap, though, so he's still sick.
> 
> I picked up some smaller syringes and some T.C. Tetracycline fish medication by API yesterday in case it can be of any use now or in the future; I will pick up some Triple-sulfa or other meds today from another pet store which I did not have the time to go to yesterday. I will also check and see if the Spectovet tablets I ordered arrived yet.
> I will keep you informed.


Yeah!

Bless his little heart, he sure didn't look good.

Pidgey


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

I now have T.C. Tetracycline and Triple-sulfa fish medications, and some spectovet tablets; would these new ones be better for my sick pigeon than the Cephalexin and Spartrix he is being given? 

He seemed to be doing just a little better today; his crop is emptying nearly like it should be and droppings have improved a little. I'm glad to see he is slowly recovering


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

I was not able to find the Metroplex - only one pet store carried Seachem products but did not stock Metroplex. Everyone had lots of API products though... could the Tetracycline be mixed with the Triple-sulfa, or would that be a bad combination? Also, would it be better to try the spectovet tablets instead? Thanks so much for all your help!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith72 said:


> I was not able to find the Metroplex - only one pet store carried Seachem products but did not stock Metroplex. Everyone had lots of API products though... could the Tetracycline be mixed with the Triple-sulfa, or would that be a bad combination? Also, would it be better to try the spectovet tablets instead? Thanks so much for all your help!


Faith, do you think you could check with the store that carried the Seachem products and see if they could get some Metroplex in for you, or you could order some from where you got the Spectrovet, if you have pigeons, Metronidazole is a must have med to have in your medicine cabinet. Also, with the Spectrovet pills, what does it say each pill has for the amount Spectinomycin and Lincomycin that are in the pills and suggested dose a day. Actually, Sulfa and Tetracycline makes a pretty good combination and there are a few commercial products on the market with them in combination.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

I will check with Jedds and order some Metronidazole; do you suggest getting powder or tablet form?

Let's see, the Box with the Spectovet says each tablet contains 18mg Spectinomycin and 9mg Lincomycin. The dosage for birds up to 500g body weight is 1 tablet daily for 5-7 days. For birds 500g-1Kg, 2 tablets daily for 5-7 days.

I am refrigerating all the medications I get because I am worried about them overheating; is there anything wrong with refrigeration/will it affect the performance of the meds, and do you recommend storing them any other way?

Thank you!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith72 said:


> I will check with Jedds and order some Metronidazole; do you suggest getting powder or tablet form?
> 
> Let's see, the Box with the Spectovet says each tablet contains 18mg Spectinomycin and 9mg Lincomycin. The dosage for birds up to 500g body weight is 1 tablet daily for 5-7 days. For birds 500g-1Kg, 2 tablets daily for 5-7 days.
> 
> ...


Faith, I would get the tablets if you can, as they are easier to dose on an individual basis. I want you to mix up the Triple-Sulfa today, here's how to do this.

Each small, individual packet in the Triple-Sulfa box contains 1000mg of pure TS med, I want you open one of these packs and dump it on something like a small mirror or even a glossy magazine cover. Divide the little pile of Triple-Sulfa (TS) evenly in half (500mg each pile), use a credit card or a business card, then put other half back in the pack and put away.

I want you to get a shot-glass and add 10cc of pancake syrup or honey to it, this will be 2 level teaspoons, scrape it all in with your finger (1 teaspoon = 5mL, use a cooking/measuring teaspoon and not a common flatware teaspoon to be accurate). Now with the half pack of the TS you have set aside (500mg), place this into the 10mL of syrup/honey and stir very well in, cover and let sit for 20 minutes, stir very well again and it will be ready for use. You will now have a 5% TS suspension (50mg/mL) to dose with. 

You will want to give this little guy 0.20cc (10mg) q12h (this is to the second line on a 1cc syringe, and for reference is about 4 drops and you give it twice a day). Make sure you shake, or stir, the suspension well before drawing up the med to give, each time you use it and keep it in the refrigerator between use, as with your other meds. Just gently open the bird's mouth and place 1-2 drops at a time in the front of his mouth and allow him to tongue it down

FYI, 1cc = 1mL, same thing.

So when it's time for the next dose of Cephalexin, you will give the Triple-Sulfa instead. It's important when a change of meds is made you keep an even closer eye on the bird for any changes in perceived condition, either better or worse, so we know the med is working or an adjustment has to be made. Please keep him on the 5mg a day of the Spartrix (1/2 a pill) for a few more days as well and keep him on the ACV.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you so much Dobato, I mixed the Triple-sulfa how you directed except I don't have honey or pancake syrup so I substituted Agave syrup instead. I am giving him the amounts of Triple-sulfa and Spartrix you suggest. I have noticed no new changes on his status today, same as yesterday, although better than he was when he initially got sick (thank you so much for your help!).

I will keep an eye on him and keep you informed on his status! Thanks so much and have a great 4th of July everyone


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi guys, sorry I have not posted sooner, but I have not been feeling well either lately and there is nothing urgent.

As far as I can tell, there has been no change in how my sick pigeon is doing; I am still hand-feeding him since he has no interest to eat or drink on his own. I have been continuing the triple-sulfa medication mixture as directed and have been keeping a good amount of food and ACV water in his crop. I have not noticed any reaction to the new sulfa medication which he was switched to.

Some very, very minor changes are his head and neck are not arched quite so much and the droppings have improved ever so slightly, but he is still very sick and whatever he has is still there. Does it normally take this long to get rid of a sickness in pigeons? 

I ordered the Metronidazol tablets, and the place I ordered it from just decided to tell me today that they are temporarily out of stock (it was on normal 5-7 day shipping). I am re-ordering it from somewhere else now.

Do you have any other suggestions? Thanks you so much for your help so far, he is better now than when he was first sick but the sickness just needs to be knocked out the rest of the way somehow.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith as mentioned before, the pet store that carried the Seachem products may be able to get the Metroplex in quicker that waiting on the place you placed that order for Metronidazole tablets from.

Also, so far we have been using good meds on your little guy, the Cephalexin, Spartrix and Triple-Sulfa, and they have been working to an extent, but they would not have been the meds I would have chosen first, I would have probably chose Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Metronidazole. Two of the meds you are using, the Triple-Sulfa and Spartrix are related to each of these meds, respectively, but are not as effective, IMO. As a simple explanation the first, Trimethoprim/Sulfa, is a sulfa med combined with another medicine, Trimethoprim, that makes this particular sulfa med far more effective, and with the Metronidazole, it's a first choice drug for protozoal infection in pigeons and also has the additional benefit of being an antibiotic for certain kinds of infections that involve anaerobic bacteria and Metronidazole can be used safely at some pretty aggressive dosing levels, far higher than the Spartrix.

Here is a link to a place that sells both (called FishZole and Bird-Sulfa):

http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/5922-Fish-and-Bird-Antibiotics.aspx

When a vet is not involved, to run tests, and we are left to try and make our best guesses as to what may work in treating empirically as we are doing, this is trying a medicine(s) and seeing the response in the bird, it is alway good to try the first choice drugs, this way if the response is not what you are expecting you are not left trying to figure out, if the bird were on a different drugs would they be able to fully clear the infection. Also, this way when you do make a change in meds it's because you know a particular med is not being effective and not because you are using a stand in.

I know you have the Spectrovet, but to be honest, I have never used either drugs contained in this medicine before, so I am reluctant to suggest a change in medicine to this, as right now he is holding his own, is even a touch better than in our last communication.

Another suggestion would be to see if you can get some Baytril (Enrofloxacin), to have on hand as if there was to be another change in meds (other than from Triple-Sulfa to Trimethoprim/Sulfa and from Spartrix/ie: Carnidazole to Metronidazole) then this most likely would be the next change I would suggest. Here is where you can get some Baytril:

http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/baytril.html

Also, I should mention that there is a human equivalent of Baytril and it's called Ciprofloxacin, you may have heard of it, and 1 500mg tablet would be enough for a course of treatment for your bird, if it was decided this may be worth doing. You can check with your family and friends if the have any Cipro around for themselves or their family.

So to sum it up, I would like to see this bird immediately moved to Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Metronidazole, we should know in roughly 48-72 hours if this is being more effective for him, if not then a change to Baytril/Cipro, staying on the Metronidazole with this change, and reassess in another 48 hours.

Finally, Pidgey made a good mention when discussing your case through PM, and that is this guy could have parasitic infection and with him not really getting well yet (taking the previous mentions about med into consideration) it may also be a good idea to de-worm this little guy with a very gentle, and effective, de-wormer called Pyrantel Pamoate to to deal with with this possibility. Myself, this would be the only de-wormer I would use with a bird in a fragile condition like this (you could get the smallest size, as it only takes a very small amount for treatment).

http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/2775-Pyrantel-50mg.aspx

These are my thoughts on the situation, others may have additional opinions.


Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hello everyone, I am so sorry to tell you this - I have been heart broken by the loss - but my sick pigeon passed away during the night or early morning between July 11th and 12th. I did not see any changes in his condition; I wish I could have saved him, I wish he could live and fly again. He is somewhere happy now - I hope he drifted away peacefully.

I thank everyone who has worked to help me try and save him - Karyn, Phil, Pidgey - for the information and help on finding good medication and dosage amounts. I will keep the information on the medications in case anything like this comes up again, and I will worm all the birds in the loft with a safe product in case they do have something like that, although I'm pretty sure they don't. 

Karyn, I hate to bother you further, but do you know what the dosage for the Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Metronidazole is, in case this sickness comes up again? Can this mix also be used for Respiratory infections/other problems? I have heard that so many people around here have had trouble with Respiratory issues in their pigeons.

Thank you all again, God bless.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Faith, this is sad news indeed to hear, I wish he could have live to fly again as well. The dosing for the Trimethoprim/Sulfa nd the Metronidazole are the same, 50mg/kg BID (twice a day). If your pigeons have any access at all to bare soil or wild birds can leave droppings in their area, then de-worming should be on a list of preventive measures for them.

Karyn


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you Karyn. I haven't given my pigeons worming medication on a scheduled basis because I just don't like the idea of putting meds into their system over and over when no worm problem is present. But since this sickness popped up, I will get a good, safer wormer and start them on it... It's better than one of them possibly falling ill because of internal parasites, although I do keep their loft very clean and I have seen very few wild birds around the outside of the loft where they land.

I also put garlic in their water, occasional Acidophilus powder in their food, I grow Chocolate Mint in their loft, they have a large sunning porch, and they get a Lavender Epsom salt bath every two days (also herbal tea in the winter and occasional aloe vera foot massages)  They also get to fly and exercise every day except for rest days and bad weather days. I prefer to use natural remedies to keep my pigeons healthy rather than dose them with medication, if at all possible.

Thank you so much again.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Faith72 said:


> Thank you Karyn. I haven't given my pigeons worming medication on a scheduled basis because I just don't like the idea of putting meds into their system over and over when no worm problem is present. But since this sickness popped up, I will get a good, safer wormer and start them on it... It's better than one of them possibly falling ill because of internal parasites, although I do keep their loft very clean and I have seen very few wild birds around the outside of the loft where they land.
> 
> I also put garlic in their water, occasional Acidophilus powder in their food, I grow Chocolate Mint in their loft, they have a large sunning porch, and they get a Lavender Epsom salt bath every two days (also herbal tea in the winter and occasional aloe vera foot massages)  They also get to fly and exercise every day except for rest days and bad weather days. I prefer to use natural remedies to keep my pigeons healthy rather than dose them with medication, if at all possible.
> 
> Thank you so much again.


Hi Faith, I'm very sorry about the loss of your bird. As Dobato said, it's very important to have them on a worming schedule. They can have worms without you even realizing it, breaking down their system. I rotate worming meds, but if your concerned about safety.....Pyrantel Pamoate (strongid) is a VERY safe and effective wormer. It's used alot for small puppies and kittens, and you should be able to get it from your regular vet.
The dose is .12mls per bird, or if you have alot of birds, you can put it in their drinking water (1.50mls per gallon)


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you MSfreebird. I researched it, and it does seem like the safest route to go for a wormer. I will probably purchase some Pyrantel Pamoate from this site if anyone else might be interested in getting some too: http://www.countrysidepet.com/pyrantel-pamoate-wormer-16oz.aspx


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## Faith72 (Jun 28, 2011)

MSFreebird, I also visited your sites included with your post and I LOVE your pigeon pics! You have quite a handsome bunch there  My gratitude to you for rescuing many of those gorgeous dears and for being such a good pigeon caretaker and mom!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Faith72 said:


> MSFreebird, I also visited your sites included with your post and I LOVE your pigeon pics! You have quite a handsome bunch there  My gratitude to you for rescuing many of those gorgeous dears and for being such a good pigeon caretaker and mom!


 Thank you.......Divorced and the kids are grown and on their own, Now I'm doing what I LOVE


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Faith,

I am really sorry to hear about your poor bird too May I ask, just for clarity, did you manage to get her on a treatment for canker, ie the metronidazole? 

PS. Thanks Karyn and Msfreebird for the info on a safe wormer. I had a look for the one you guys recommended, and I foiund out that in AUstralia (and Europe) its called Pyrantel embonate (instead of Pyrantel pamoate). I can order it from a regular chemist, its called `Anthel' and I'll do it right away!


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