# ***16 Day Old Squab Pics and a question***



## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

So my squab is 16 days old and the mother has moved to a nesting box next door and is sitting on eggs. I have little containers with food and water in the squabs nesting box. He can walk around but I have not seen him eat seed nor get fed since yesterday morning but to be fair I haven't been around alot. I put him on the loft floor this morning as a test and he got pecked in the head by another male pigeon. Is he fine in the nesting box? Suggestions??


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Oh bless him...so cute!

He is too young to go on the loft floor - as a rule of thumb, I put mine down when their tails are as long as my thumb. But, I'd never risk putting down just one baby - you need to put dwn as many at once as you can. He will be fine in the nesting box for quite some time yet and Dad should be feeding him.. Check his crop just before dusk, it should be full then.


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Thank you very much...I will check him before bed time.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

where's daddy?, he should be feeding him at this point, also the young one should be pecking at the seed trying it out, they learn from the parent birds so thats good the food is in the nest box with him. I also put water in there in something that can not be turned over and dunk their beak in there just to show them where it is. his crop looks like someone is feeding him.....


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Justice543 said:


> I have two that are 27 days old when d oI need to put them down


Do you only have two that can go down together? Are there any other cocks than the parents of these two in the loft? Do they have young of their own? the fewer birds you put down together, the more chance there is of them getting scalped. Likewise if you have cocks that have no young of their own..

Its a hard call whether to risk two down or not. A couple of weeks ago I had one that should have been on the floor but, I had no others to put down so I left him in the nestbox. Unfortunately he came out of his own accord, when I wasn't around, and he was scalped....quite literally, his head was pecked until his skull was exposed. What a mess, a pure white bird covered in blood. He lived and, when he moults in November, should look OK but it was an experience I don't want to repeat.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The father will continue feeding that bird in the nest box. Too young to wean if it doesn't' know how to eat or drink yet. Once the hen is on another eggs, she seems to lose interest feeding the baby. She will occasionally, but she leaves the feeding to the cock.


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Well....bad news for me I have another squab only 5 days old and it was scalped today. I had to clean it and put blood stop on it. I think it will live. So sad. I had to close mommy and squab in the nesting box together until he gets better.

I am thinking now that instead of nesting boxes I am going to have individual cages mounted on the wall of my loft and keep mommies and babies locked up all the time.


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## Keith C. (Jan 25, 2005)

I would leave the squab in the nest. You can see in the picture it has a nice full crop. 
Just keep an eye on it's weight and keep the food and water within it's reach and sooner or later it will eat on it's own.
I would get rid of the pigeon or pigeons that are attacking the young birds.
If your're not sure which bird it is, look for blood on the neck and chest of the adults. The guilty bird(s) will have blood there.
Keith


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

OK.....so i went and checked and the horrible news is that it is the* DAD!!!!*

I have them all banded and I know that 53 momma and 63 momma share 52 as the dad. I have seen him sit on both nests and feed both squabs.

He has been very good and kept all the other males away from both boxes and done his part for both females...

*Why would he do that now?????*


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Justice543 said:


> I have two that are 27 days old when d oI need to put them down


Just an FYI...I would have a 27 day old youngster weaned into the youngbird loft. They should be fully independent, or close to it at that age. Many of my club mates wean at 24 days. That always seemed a bit early to me so I usually go between 27 and 30 days old.

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

ggoss1 said:


> OK.....so i went and checked and the horrible news is that it is the DAD!!!!
> 
> I have them all banded and I know that 53 momma and 63 momma share 52 as the dad. I have seen him sit on both nests and feed both squabs.
> 
> ...


How old is this cock? Sounds like he is a yearling. If you are going to do any polygamous breeding I would suggest using older cocks and fostering the eggs of one of the hens to another pair. This would help avoid this situation in the future.

Dan


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Well this is my first season of breeding. They are all yearlings. I didn't PLAN on having polygamous breeding....it just happened. I didn't even know they did that anyways!!!!

So given my current situation....what do I do now? lock up each mom with each squab? I only have two squabs and three other moms sitting on 2 eggs for a total of six eggs.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

learning said:


> Just an FYI...I would have a 27 day old youngster weaned into the youngbird loft. They should be fully independent, or close to it at that age. Many of my club mates wean at 24 days. That always seemed a bit early to me so I usually go between 27 and 30 days old.
> 
> Dan


I agree, _if_ you are lucky enough to have a separate young bird loft. This year I am breeding in both sections of my loft. 
Actually, I go by the development of the youngsters, rather than their age. I move them when they are fully feathered under the wings. My birds have galley pots in the nest boxes so that they have watched their parents from a week old and are usually picking before I move them. It makes for less stressful weaning.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

ggoss1 said:


> Well this is my first season of breeding. They are all yearlings. I didn't PLAN on having polygamous breeding....it just happened. I didn't even know they did that anyways!!!!
> 
> So given my current situation....what do I do now? lock up each mom with each squab? I only have two squabs and three other moms sitting on 2 eggs for a total of six eggs.


Oh heck! Any breeding loft, that has unpaired birds in, has the potential for trouble.

I'm not sure what the answer is for you.... I'm not sure that you can lock in the mom and babies, as its the cock who takes over feeding the young birds while mom sits the new set of eggs. If it were me, I would take the babies out and hand rear them. I would then remove any birds, that are not paired, to another loft.  JMO, I'm sure others will have better ideas.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

pigeonpoo said:


> Oh heck! Any breeding loft, that has unpaired birds in, has the potential for trouble.
> 
> I'm not sure what the answer is for you.... I'm not sure that you can lock in the mom and babies, as its the cock who takes over feeding the young birds while mom sits the new set of eggs. If it were me, I would take the babies out and hand rear them. I would then remove any birds, that are not paired, to another loft.  JMO, I'm sure others will have better ideas.


This may indeed be your best option in your situation. You don't have another pair with a baby the same age to put it with so that's out. The father is the culprit as far as scalping goes. This baby's only chance may be to hand feed. Do you have a separate section you could move mom and baby to? This would at least get it away from the scalper. You would probably still have to hand raise it as mom might abandon it.

I would deffinitely not let this cock breed for the rest of the year until he matures some. I had a cock last year that, as a yearling, would abandon his babies at about a week old. Too worried about starting another round. I split the pair, remated the hen to another older cock, and removed the culprit to the "bachelor pad" as we call it. It is a section for the unmated cocks. I then mated him again this year and have had no problems with him. He and his mate have raised three beautiful healthy rounds for me.

Hang in there, it will get better.

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Some guys will put them on the landing board as soon as they are weaned (24 days or so). I have a California style landing board/aviary so I can just open the trap and they can come and go as they please to learn their way in and out of the loft. After I am sure they are flying well, I will then open the aviary and let them go out on their own. This is the dangerous time for them as they are vulnerable to the hawks. Once they get up and are routing for a half hour or so the hawks are somewhat less of a threat. Don't force them up though as it is very easy to scare them off at this point. They will do it on their own in time.

Dan


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Justice543 you hijacked my thread!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pigeonpoo said:


> Oh heck! Any breeding loft, that has unpaired birds in, has the potential for trouble.
> 
> I'm not sure what the answer is for you.... I'm not sure that you can lock in the mom and babies, as its the cock who takes over feeding the young birds while mom sits the new set of eggs. If it were me, I would take the babies out and hand rear them. I would then remove any birds, that are not paired, to another loft.  JMO, I'm sure others will have better ideas.


I agree with pigeonpoo. I would hand rear them. And if you have another loft to put the unpaired birds in, I would do that too. You may not be able to do this however. But I would definately bring in the babies and hand raise them.


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

OK....so what I did was is I locked the 1 pair up with the baby and eggs in the pictures. It seemed to work because the dad is feeding him.

Then the other hen with the baby that got scalped I locked her up with the baby. She has been feeding him. However, when she kicks him out of the nest I will bring in the baby and feed it myself.

So far...so good. My other idea is that I have a lone cock and that lone hen with the baby. I was thinking that when I take the baby out I could lock the pair up together and then they will bond. Then......no unmatched pairs!!!!

Sound good?


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Here is a picture of my nesting boxes. Today's events are making me doubt if they are good enough? Are they?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I don't think it is a matter of the nest boxes not being good enough. I think there are other forces at work here as I stated in my posts above.

Dan


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Well I appreciate everyone's advice. I just care so much about trying to do this perfectly and it seems that nothing is going right.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ggoss1 said:


> Well I appreciate everyone's advice. I just care so much about trying to do this perfectly and it seems that nothing is going right.


Don't get discouraged. This is a learning experience. We are all trying to do our best, and this is a great place to get advice and to ask questions. This is how you learn. By reading the others posts on different things, when other things come up, hopefully you will already have the answers. The more you learn, the better and easier it will get. You have already learned a lot. And now have more of an idea of what to do. What fun would it be if it were always easy. No challenge in that!


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

OK. You are doing your best here. I hope that it works for you.

I cant see food/water in the locked boxes ...maybe its behind the door?? 

Watch that mum doesn't give up feeding the baby on her own - keep checking its crop especially at dusk.


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah they are behind the closed doors. Thanks again for everything.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Let us know how they are doing.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

ggoss1 said:


> Yeah they are behind the closed doors. Thanks again for everything.


Thats good; good luck now.

I have had four years without a scalping and now have just had two within as many weeks. The first YB was in his nest box, the mother, who was on eggs in an ajoining nestbowl, suddenly became very keen and attacked him. He was just about ready to wean but, I had no others ready to go down so had left him in the nest box. I moved him to another loft.

Last night, I found a ten day old baby badly scalped. He and his nest mate were nested happily on the loft floor but, another cock must have taken a dislike to them. I took a risk and moved them into the nestbox the parents usually use. I watched carefully, first the hen went to them, started to preen the babies (poor scalpy had his sore head preened) then she fed them. The cock went to the nestbox, he didnt feed the babies but at least he didn't attack them. This morning I have observed both the hen and the cock feeding the youngsters. Phew!

The ups and downs of pigeon keeping!!


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear that....

Both babies were offcially not fed last night or this morning. So they are locked up together in thier own nest box and I am handfeeeding them with the Kaytee baby parrot food. Its actually easier than I thought thanks to this video I found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y26s98QJzFs


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## kingsley hannah (Jan 9, 2008)

that is a good wee vidieo, in my experiance it dose not hurt to have the birds in the next box till they are happy to come out, as i use one loft its hard to do any seperating , the squabs tend to be saffer in their own box i dont bother weaning (cos of only 1 loft) and have found that this helps the birds to be feed (once on the floor)by all the parents not just their own, keep us up dated


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

I will post some pics tonight! They are recovering so well from their scalping attacks. I honestly did not think the small one would make it and if he did I thought he would be blind. They were doing so well this morning and healing so quickly.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Yeah, they do heal quickly. My little scalpy now has a few feathers growing through the dried blood and the bruising around his eyes has gone.

I looked at the video but is that tube feeding? I thought it looked to squirt the whole syringe into the throat, I'd be scared of it aspirating! Guess I was lucky the parents accepted them in a different place.


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## ggoss1 (Mar 4, 2009)

I checked a couple of sources and the best one I found was this one as well:

http://www.pigeoncote.com/vet/feedbaby/feedbaby.html

So I am feeding my 20 ish day old squabs 35cc in the morning and 35cc at dusk.


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