# Pigeon in stress?! Grooming viscously!



## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Hello!
I had made a thread previously regarding my new pigeon friend Potter, but I thought of creating a new thread here today because I need some answers asap about his new...behavior.

I am currently out of town, and my mother has been looking after my pigeon. 

She wrote me yesterday all worried because my pigeon Potter has been...how do you say it in English...mmm...scratching(?) poking(?) himself with his beak allot lately, and has taken one big feather off himself...

He always did "groom" himself with his beak while I was there too, but according to my mother, he's been doing this viscously lately, and has lost a big feather (I'm not sure from which part of his body).

Since he has been a wounded (or PMV virus) pigeon, I haven't bathed him. 
I did try to allow him to bathe by himself in a shallow big container with luke warm water, but he never really showed interest in bathing himself, so I only tried this twice.

Is this behavior due to him being under some kind stress because he cannot fly? 
Or is it because now that his symptoms of illness are fading, he wants to bathe? (being kept in a room for over 2 months, perhaps he knows he needs to bathe?)

Or could it be that he's been eating too much peanuts?
Between my mother, sisters, brother, nieces and nephew whom each time walks into Potter's room feeds him his favorite peanuts...who knows how much they have been feeding him in total! 

My mother also told me that it seems like he is losing some feathers on top of his head....(but that could just be something she "thinks"..)

I'm taking a wild guess here, and am thinking; "it could be because the weather is now changing and is much warmer, he is grooming himself even more...like cats and other animals do when the season changes..."
But since I am not there to see how Potter is doing this "viscously"....I am not sure and am very worried.

If anyone knows about such extreme(?) behavior of pigeons, please let me know!
Thank you very much!

XOXO
Hato


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Hato,
I wouldn't panic if he's doing fine otherwise - he is probably just molting - changing his feathers. And yes, he is probably loosing feathers on his head too and that is totally normal. He'll loose feathers from everywhere if it's a major molt and look a little ragged for a while until he regrows all the feathers he looses and then he'll look totally gorgeous. Molting is stressful for birds though, so you might want to up the protein content and add multivitamins if you are not giving those already.


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Hi Hato,
> I wouldn't panic if he's doing fine otherwise - he is probably just molting - changing his feathers. And yes, he is probably loosing feathers on his head too and that is totally normal. He'll loose feathers from everywhere if it's a major molt and look a little ragged for a while until he regrows all the feathers he looses and then he'll look totally gorgeous. Molting is stressful for birds though, so you might want to up the protein content and add multivitamins if you are not giving those already.


nycpigeonlady!
Thank you so so much for the quick reply!
Ok..I feel relieved now...!! Hyuu....!
So seeds with more protein content...do you have any suggestions to what kind of food we should give him?
And multivitamins...you mean for humans? Or are there any also for birds?
So sorry to ask you so many questions! (><)
And thank you for your help...!!!
XOXO


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

They tend to like to take baths when molting as well.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

He would need avian vitamins - they are usually added to the water or sprinkled to the food. As for the seeds - those with more protein are the peas (green peas, Canadian white peas, maple peas, Austrian peas, etc. and pulses - so all sorts of lentils. Pigeons love mung beans too, but no other raw beans (toxic to birds). Roasted soy beans are really high in protein as well. Of course pigeons still don't need all that much protein - about 17% of the diet in times of molting. Whether you choose to give multivitamins on an ongoing basis - I don't know - some people do some don't, but as an indoor bird he should be taking D3 regularly with calcium, unless he gets to spend time regularly outside in the sun. The sun rays he gets through the window don't count.

I'm really happy to hear that Potter is doing well, and hope the same is true of you.

Eva


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> The tend to like to take baths when molting as well.


Hi, Spirit wings!
Ok, thank you....! I just wrote my family in Japan to prepare the room so that Potter can take his bath during this period! )
I just hope he'd be willing to bathe this time!
Thank you!
XOXO
Hato


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

nycpigeonlady said:


> He would need avian vitamins - they are usually added to the water or sprinkled to the food. As for the seeds - those with more protein are the peas (green peas, Canadian white peas, maple peas, Austrian peas, etc. and pulses - so all sorts of lentils. Pigeons love mung beans too, but no other raw beans (toxic to birds). Roasted soy beans are really high in protein as well. Of course pigeons still don't need all that much protein - about 17% of the diet in times of molting. Whether you choose to give multivitamins on an ongoing basis - I don't know - some people do some don't, but as an indoor bird he should be taking D3 regularly with calcium, unless he gets to spend time regularly outside in the sun. The sun rays he gets through the window don't count.
> 
> I'm really happy to hear that Potter is doing well, and hope the same is true of you.
> 
> Eva


Eva...! 
Thank you again for all your help!
Ok, so I googled bird vitamins and health products for molting, and found this:
http://www.friskyfinches.com/vetafarm feather aid.htm
What do you think? Would this product be good enough for his molting season?

And I've also read that if I am already feeding him "race pigeon mix seeds", it should cover the necessary 17% of the protein....so this should be ok for now..

By the way, I am currently feeding a flock of pigeons which comes to my terrace here in Italy...and they are really fun to watch!
This is my 14th year here in this apartment, and although I have always noticed that there were many pigeons around the area, I never fed them unless I had some left over breads that I wanted to throw away....
But now, I feed them (though I think it is illegal to do so here in Florence..) and they are sooo smart...they know the exact time I will be out in the terrace, and the time I will not be there...and just come and greet me every time I am there!
I thought of you while doing this... I now know "who's-who" of the entire flock....lol 
I had added some photos onto my album, so if you have the time, please see them! ;')) Love to hear your opinion...!
Thank you again for your help, Eva!
XOXO
Hato


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

hatopigeon said:


> I now know "who's-who" of the entire flock....lol
> I had added some photos onto my album...


Yes, it's like a soap opera, isn't it - in time you get to see who's related to whom, who's cheating on whom, you get to experience the bully of the flock, the one who's just more sweet and tame than everyone else, the one who's willing to sell his soul for a peanut even when his crop is about to explode..... they are all such characters and so full of charm. But I couldn't see the album in your profile - I only see the three albums with Potter's pictures.

You're right - you're already feeding a good amount of protein with the racers' mix. The bird vitamins sound good for molting time, and I think I remember you were feeding him a variety of greens too, so he'll be fine even without them, being as spoiled and well looked after as he is. But if you don't put his cage out in the sun almost daily, do get the vitamin D3 to use year round, because these vitamins don't have it. My ferals love chicken egg shells for calcium. I boil them or bake them at 250 F for 15 min. to sterilize them and then I break them into small pieces with a mortar and pestle. Now that it's breeding season, I can hardy keep up. I have been eating a lot of eggs, LOL.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Hato,

I just thought I'd add this about bathing, because I know Potter has not taken a bath yet. 

It took my first pet pigeon six months of me putting out a bath dish with water almost daily, for him to finally jump in and take a bath! All the splashing and coaxing I did, could not convince him. I sprayed him with a water bottle once and he hated it so much, I never did it again. He was an extreme case perhaps, but the point is it can take a while. Once he starts bathing though, he'll really enjoy it, and it also cuts down on the amount of feather dust - and breathing that is neither good for you nor for him.

P.S. My current feral rescue who'll be released tomorrow takes a bath every single day. Some pigeons just love splashing around in the water, while others....not so much.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Don't forget adding Vitamins like A, D & E into his feed. That will help with dry flaky skin and is helpful for the moult. 

Don't worry about the feather plucking - Krikky has plucked hundreds of his own feathers! He's still healthy and shiny! The new feathers look SO much better after his plucking madness.

Bathing PMV patients need supervision. As long as you don't leave him alone in the water, that's fine. Keep a lookout in case he sinks in or unable to breathe.

Good luck!


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Yes, it's like a soap opera, isn't it - in time you get to see who's related to whom, who's cheating on whom, you get to experience the bully of the flock, the one who's just more sweet and tame than everyone else, the one who's willing to sell his soul for a peanut even when his crop is about to explode..... they are all such characters and so full of charm. But I couldn't see the album in your profile - I only see the three albums with Potter's pictures.
> 
> You're right - you're already feeding a good amount of protein with the racers' mix. The bird vitamins sound good for molting time, and I think I remember you were feeding him a variety of greens too, so he'll be fine even without them, being as spoiled and well looked after as he is. But if you don't put his cage out in the sun almost daily, do get the vitamin D3 to use year round, because these vitamins don't have it. My ferals love chicken egg shells for calcium. I boil them or bake them at 250 F for 15 min. to sterilize them and then I break them into small pieces with a mortar and pestle. Now that it's breeding season, I can hardy keep up. I have been eating a lot of eggs, LOL.


Eva!
Yeap, yeap, exactly!! LOL
I immidiately noticed the "BULLY"....lol 
He is the largest, and is the only brown/white pigeon in the flock..!
And the small adolescence girl...so sweet...but is too timid to go for the seeds.

You made me laugh-out-real-loud when you wrote about the "who's cheating on whom..." part and also the "eating a lot of eggs" part....LOL
Your ferals are truly the luckiest ferals in the world to have you there!!

I'll be sending all the great advices and recommendation you've kindly given me to my mother so that she can try to help Potter ease his stress from this molting season.

Thank you for the information about pigeon-bathing too!!
I am so relieved to know that there are pigeons out there with bathing issues!

I miss my little fella, and cannot wait to go back to Tokyo to see him...! I just hope he remembers me! )

P.S. Sorry about the Album...I had it set on "Private", but I've reseted to "Public" now...so you can see them...!

XOXO
Hato


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Don't forget adding Vitamins like A, D & E into his feed. That will help with dry flaky skin and is helpful for the moult.
> 
> Don't worry about the feather plucking - Krikky has plucked hundreds of his own feathers! He's still healthy and shiny! The new feathers look SO much better after his plucking madness.
> 
> ...


Heeey, Sassy!!!
How have you been?!
And how is Kirkky doing?
Hope all is well with both of you! )
Thank you for your information and advice!

I found this vitamins for pigeons in molting (link posted onto this thread above), and I think it has all the vitamins you've mentioned, so I think I'll just get this bottle and see how it goes...! 

My family and I didn't know that pigeons (or any birds for that matter..) "pluck" out all their feathers, and there are "molting" seasons....! So when my mother saw Potter starting to do this...poor woman...she thought he was trying to kill himself out of stress of suddenly being a indoor-pet-bird....lol

Anyway, I will definitely pass on all these info to my mother and family right away! ))

Thanks again for your help, Sassy!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hato...you can also tell your family back in Japan to use a squirt/misting bottle and spray Potter with water. Fill the bottle with hot tap water, and just mist him from about a half-metre away.

By the time the misted water hits the air, it is lukewarm and no longer hot. This gives him a little rain bath.

At first he may be surprised and not know what to make of it. But after a few times they usually start enjoying it. It is another way to keep your Pigeon clean and it will also help with his molting and general comfort.

Nice new photos, BTW ! (Are you kidding me ? Your place is right next door to Il Duomo ??!!!!??).

So you spend entire summers in Firenze ?


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Jaye said:


> Hato...you can also tell your family back in Japan to use a squirt/misting bottle and spray Potter with water. Fill the bottle with hot tap water, and just mist him from about a half-metre away.
> 
> By the time the misted water hits the air, it is lukewarm and no longer hot. This gives him a little rain bath.
> 
> ...


Jaye!
Thank you for your advice!!!
I just sent my mother about the misting spray bottle.
I think it's great idea, because I remember Potter not liking to bathe in the shallow wide pan I had it ready for him before...! 
Let's hope that the spray bottle works for him! 

Yes, apparently, I do live in front of the Duomo...
No cars are allowed (only taxis and police cars) in the historical center area, so 
it's a very safe area for pigeons to hang out.
My building is about 400 years old, and I live on the top floor, so I think the pigeons feel very safe here on my terrace.
The only problem, is...ofcourse their poops....
Today, I washed the entire terrace terra-cotta pavement with regular soap and warm water...but I'm guessing that it won't be my last time cleaning up the pavement for a while! 

Yes, I am planning to come back in July or August to spend some time here in Italy...but not sure yet...

XOXO
Hato


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Fantastic...what date should I be there ?????

(una volta, 20 anni fa, ho parlato bene Italiano - abitavo in Roma...ma, oggi..... ho dimenticato tutti ! )


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Pigeons in the foreground, the Duomo in the background....my, Hato, you are living the life over there, and so are your new friends! I especially love the shot of them stuffing themselves. And your niece is just so adorable.

BTW, the Vetafarm molting aid lists only Copper, Cobalt, Magnesium and Zinc plus Lysine & Methionine as it's ingredients. A least that's what I link to....is that the one? Because if it is, you might want to look for another formulation to use throughout the year. I think this one is supposed to be used during molting in addition to the regular multivitamin. I personally have been using Hagen Prime Avian vitamins. They contain 14 vitamins, 9 minerals, as well amino acids and probiotics. I really don't know what the best ones out there are, I just use Prime because they are easy for me to get and the pigeons don't seem to mind the taste.

Have a great summer, and I hope you find a very lustrous and smooth looking Potter waiting for you when you get back.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Just a quick question...have you ever treated him for mites?


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Jaye said:


> Fantastic...what date should I be there ?????
> 
> (una volta, 20 anni fa, ho parlato bene Italiano - abitavo in Roma...ma, oggi..... ho dimenticato tutti ! )


Anytime after the first week of Aug, I should be back in Florence!


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Pigeons in the foreground, the Duomo in the background....my, Hato, you are living the life over there, and so are your new friends! I especially love the shot of them stuffing themselves. And your niece is just so adorable.
> 
> BTW, the Vetafarm molting aid lists only Copper, Cobalt, Magnesium and Zinc plus Lysine & Methionine as it's ingredients. A least that's what I link to....is that the one? Because if it is, you might want to look for another formulation to use throughout the year. I think this one is supposed to be used during molting in addition to the regular multivitamin. I personally have been using Hagen Prime Avian vitamins. They contain 14 vitamins, 9 minerals, as well amino acids and probiotics. I really don't know what the best ones out there are, I just use Prime because they are easy for me to get and the pigeons don't seem to mind the taste.
> 
> Have a great summer, and I hope you find a very lustrous and smooth looking Potter waiting for you when you get back.


Hello Eva!
Yes, the Vetafarm molting aid I had posted onto one of my messages are only for the molting time...
So I went and googled the Hagen Prime Avian Vitamins you told me about, and it looks like a very well balanced vitamins and mineral solutions for most seed eating birds!
I think I will try to order it! Thank you so much for the recommendation!

And thank you also for your compliments about my nieces...yes...they are adorable, and I love them sooo much! 

The pigeon I am feeding here in Florence are very "picky" flocks....today, I bought and mixed different kinds of seeds and also added some cooked/dried black beans, and on top of that, added some peanuts because my Potter in Japan loves peanuts...
but apparently these Florentine pigeons do not like peanuts at all, and hates dried green peas....!! They left ALL the peanuts and green peas, but ate the rest of them all clean!
I sometimes add some pieces of dried bread because they are so used to eating pieces of left over "panini" or "pizza" off the streets...and surely enough, they go for it immediately! 
I also started to name some of the familiar pigeons now, but then, all my Italian friends thinks I am going crazy, and that I am weird.....
Oh well...I don't care...my new feral friends are worth it! 

Eva, please have a wonderful summer yourself, and I thank you again and again for all of your kind support!!

XOXO
Hato


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Charis said:


> Just a quick question...have you ever treated him for mites?


Charis, Hi...!!!
No...I don't think my vet had treated him for mites....Oh gee...do you think that could be it?! Mites?!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The term 'bird mite' or mite will be used generically unless a specific species is named.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It could. Mites are impossible to see unless they have fed and even then, one is lucky to notice them. They are only the size of the head of a pin.
Ivermevctin will take care of them and so will a lice and mite spay that we can get at a pet shop here in the US. I hope you can get it there too.
Certainly molting and lack of bathing can make a bird itchy too. Mites are a possibility though.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Charis said:


> It could. Mites are impossible to see unless they have fed and even then, one is lucky to notice them. They are only the size of the head of a pin.
> Ivermevctin will take care of them and so will a lice and mite spay that we can get at a pet shop here in the US. I hope you can get it there too.
> Certainly molting and lack of bathing can make a bird itchy too. Mites are a possibility though.


Charis is totally right. Even with Krikky, we had a war with mites (and for a _looong_ time I thought we had won - after 3 bottles of spray) but unfortunately, the mites have regrouped and launched a second attack. We're in the midst of battle now. I would describe Krikky's mites as little white dots. They were on my arms too after handling Krikster and itched like hell. It got so bad I had to spray my bedsheets, my laptop, my entire room, heck even my entire body, for a month (or less) before it stopped. Now it's happening again. _Sigh._

How to identify those pesky little monsters - my laptop is black. Krikky loves preening on the keyboard. After every preen, there will be LOTS of weird little white dots on the black arm rest of the laptop, among the plucked feathers and pieces of flaky skin. THOSE are the enemies.

So yes, there is a high possiblity that your darling Potter might have the same problem. Good luck! Do invest in a good bird spray (I highly recommend Vetafarm's Avian Insect Liquidator - I've used that and HOBO caged bird spray). If you can get Moxidectin, do get that as well, it's good for worming AND blood-sucking mites/flies. The bird drinks the solution and the meds go into their bloodstream. When these little dodos suck their blood, they will get poisoned and drop dead. Voila!

Unfortunately, mine has expired and now the mites are having a ball of a time. So the war is back on! Wish me luck!

And good luck to you too!


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

*Mites...*

Spirit Wings, Charis, thanks!
I sometimes have seen small tiny little while things on this head, but when I looked at it carefully, it never moved, so I thought it was dandruff or something like that.....

Sassy!
Thank you! You saved my day...! I started to look for avian mite products in Japanese websites, but apparently I only found mite sprays for dogs and cats...so you really did save my day! lol
I love the way you wrote about Kirkky's mite...! I mean, I'm really sorry that you have to go through all the trouble, but your post made me laugh...lol You are so funny...and sweet! lol
It must especially be very hard for you to see if Kirkky's got mites, because his feathers are almost all white...! 
Reminder: Never get a white laptop!!! 

Thank you again guys...!! I will try to order the spray immediately!

XOXO
Hato


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, but those white dots you saw might just be feather dander, also. I mean, if neither you nor anyone else in your family has felt itchy, then it may not be mites.

I think any Pigeon who has lacked a good several baths in the time you have had Potter would need some baths for good feather and skin health.

This is not to say 'do not treat for mites'...because, sure, go ahead and treat since if there are, this will rid them...and if there aren't any, it will not hurt at all....


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Jaye said:


> Yes, but those white dots you saw might just be feather dander, also. I mean, if neither you nor anyone else in your family has felt itchy, then it may not be mites.
> 
> I think any Pigeon who has lacked a good several baths in the time you have had Potter would need some baths for good feather and skin health.
> 
> This is not to say 'do not treat for mites'...because, sure, go ahead and treat since if there are, this will rid them...and if there aren't any, it will not hurt at all....


Hi, Jaye!
No, no one in my family had any itchiness so far, and yes, the "white thing" did look like feather dander....

But if treating him for mites won't harm him even if didn't have any, I think I'll go ahead and try it on him...

Thank you as always, for the great advices!!! 

P.S. I'll be waiting for you in Florence this summer, eh? 

XOXO
Hato


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Oh, gosh...I wish....but maybe next year for sure !!!

Nice to hear they have shut off vehicular traffic to the centre. Back when I lived in Italy, the only city to have done this was Bologna....

So...do you miss your little buddy ????


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

Jaye said:


> Oh, gosh...I wish....but maybe next year for sure !!!
> 
> Nice to hear they have shut off vehicular traffic to the centre. Back when I lived in Italy, the only city to have done this was Bologna....
> 
> So...do you miss your little buddy ????


Jaye!
You never told me that you used to live in Italy! 
Wow...where about?! (I know, I know...this is a pigeon forum..lol)
Gosh, I'd love to meet you in person one day...! Please do come and visit me next summer! 
Yes, even in Florence the "No Vehicles" laws was passed by just recently.
A part from taxis, public transportation vehicles such as buses were also banned from the area I live in..Piazza del Duomo, so this area has become a pigeon-safe zone...lol
But seriously...though next year is next year, and we both are probably not sure of our future schedules yet, if you ever need a vacation, please do come and visit Florence!! 

And...a big "YES" to...if I miss my Potter...!!
This time, I am actually looking forward to going back to Tokyo just to be with Potter again!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would love to see pictures of the place you live..sounds so beautiful.. no cars..how great!


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## hatopigeon (Feb 29, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> I would love to see pictures of the place you live..sounds so beautiful.. no cars..how great!


Spirit wings!
Hi there again! 
I added some more photos of my daily life in Italy (mostly with pigeons) onto my album, so you can see some new pictures there if you'd like to! 
XOXO
Hato


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