# Follow up on Pepto Bismol treatment



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

This is just to inform anyone who read the thread about the bird that I had given the pepto bismol to, beginning 10 days ago. As I said, he was going light, not eating or drinking and had stopped taking his turn on the eggs. He was feeling very poorly and looked as if he would die, which I believe he would have had I done nothing. I fostered the eggs to other pairs and began giving pepto bismol tablets.

He was given one full pepto bismol tablet in four pieces over a four day period. I saw a little sign of improvement after 24 hours so I thought and hoped that I was onto something or on the right path. By the third day, he would defend his own space and by the fourth day, he would knock birds from a perch that he wanted.

It is now exactly 10 days after I noticed him not setting on eggs and looking ruffled and listless. His mate already laid an egg yesterday (fertile Myrtle I guess) and he was taking his turn on the nest. She laid her second egg today and again he took his turn all day setting. He looks about normal. I have not picked him up in the last couple of days but I can see that he is much stronger than he was and it is obvious that he has put on weight and gained strength. I doubt that these eggs are fertile as he would not have been very well and I certainly never saw any breeding activity over the last week between these two birds. Perhaps Myrtle found a surrogate suiter. We'll see.

I will watch him closely but I think he is fully recovered from whatever it was that he had and he had no other treatment other than pepto bismol. If a bird has gone off their feed for no apparent reason and you have no good reason to suspect a disease, this is certainly a simple remedy to try.

I would give it to any bird that refuses food, whatever the reason. I can't tell you what it's doing to inspire them to eat but I have seen at least a few birds recover from what appears horrible within a few days of this simple harmless treatment. I had used it for sourcrop (which normally smells bad and has foul food in the crop) in the past and I'm positive that this was not the problem here but I decided to try it and I'm glad I did. His breath had no odor and he had absolutely nothing in his crop. He appears fine after a mere 10 days.

Bill


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I know you are happy with his recovery, I think it does make sense to start with something simple, if symptoms are not too bad, I sure wish they could talk and say how they really feel, all we can do is guess and look at symptoms. I will have some on hand, thanks for the information..pepto works with what...sour crop? indigestine?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I don't really know for sure*



spirit wings said:


> I know you are happy with his recovery, I think it does make sense to start with something simple, if symptoms are not too bad, I sure wish they could talk and say how they really feel, all we can do is guess and look at symptoms. I will have some on hand, thanks for the information..pepto works with what...sour crop? indigestine?


But I would try it with any intestinal or crop disorder that is not a disease. It would likely help even a diseased bird and should certainly be safe to use even with an antibiotic. I can't be sure on that one, maybe Pidgey or someone else may know but I can't imagine that it could be risky or harmful in any way.

I don't think that I have ever given it to a bird for more than four days as this has always been sufficient to make them well (with only one exception). These are obviously problems that are not of disease but of various problems with the intestinal tract, probably from the crop all the way through the various organs of a bird. They may well present themselves as a disease, when in fact, they are not. If I suspected a disease, I would certainly not rely on this alone to cure it but I would think nothing of giving it to a bird that had these symptoms. If I suspected disease, I would treat it appropriately, in addition to the pepto.

It's an old pigeon remedy for sourcrop but I think that it is probably even more helpful than for just that one situation. I have seen what I would describe as a fairly remarkable recovery to a very sick pigeon in a very short period of time with nothing more than a simple pepto bismol tablet. I remember many years ago how it did the same thing for birds with sourcrop. They were all well in 4 days, except for one Norwich Cropper YH that needed a second round of treatment. Croppers and Pouters in general, are more prone to sourcrop due to their enlarged crops that can develop pockets of sour feed.

In this situation, I was treating a bird that was very ill but he had already been wormed and treated for any diseases that I would normally worry about. It is probably important to note that my birds have had no contact with feral pigeons in several years and there has only recently been any new introductions of any kind and I have been very careful with where they come from and with their introduction to the flock. My birds are in a tightly controlled environment and do not have many risks. They can still get sick and even become diseased.

For this bird, I thought about taking pictures every day as I didn't really think that people would believe this. I have been very busy lately and did not take the time to do so. I wish that I had as you could all see the downfall and the progress of this pigeon. It has been pretty cool. It's a joy to see him sitting on their eggs and acting normal again. I'm quite certain that he would have died without this simple treatment.

I can remember when I milked cows with my dad for a living, if a cow went off of her feed (wasn't hungry), we would give her a huge pepto bismol tablet that was made for cattle and horses. She would invarioubly be better by the next day and eating as normal. There must be some pretty important stuff in them. I thought that they were mostly alkaline but it seems that there is something like peptic acids as well or maybe they just neutralize them and put the system back into balance, I don't really know. I just know that they work in various situations and I have seen first hand many times what I would call amazing recoveries.

Bill


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bill, 




I have enjoyed your mentioning this, and I have started using it for one of mine here, and it seems to ease his discomforts.


I do not yet have much of an idea of what it does, ( I suspect it may act as an anti-inflamatory of the digestive system as well as shifting the PH into Alkaline, which Alkaline can probably inhibit certain Bacteria or Micro-Organims or phases of their Life Cycle ) but I will try reading and researching it over the next week or so and report back now and then.


One thing which would be easy to do if one has Pouters or other Breeds who tend to be liable to Sour Crop, would be to Acidify their Water with Raw Apple Cider Vinegar, maybe twice a week. 2-1/2 Tablespoons to the Gallon would likely do it...or 3 would...

Shiftingthe PH either into a higher Alkaline range, or, an Acidic range, either way, will arrest fermentations and inhibit or arrest various Molds, Yeasts, Candida and a long list of other Micro-Organisms which are just fine to be rid of.



Pigeons seem to find the flavor just fine with them...it is good for them.


Good for us also as a Summer Beverage too.


Really too, all of us should obtain and use Water Purifiers to remove unwanted things from our 'Tap Water'...for our Birds, and our selves and loved ones.



Most Public Water anywhere now is really poor quality, and is tainted with a lot of pharmaceutical and hormone and insecticide and chlorinated hydrocarbon traces, and other not-good things, and a Reverse Osmosis Filter system suitable for a small family is only a couple hundred bucks to buy.

I plan on getting one soon...and I do not know what wasthe matter with me not getting one years ago.




Of course, with the 'ACV-Water', one would use only Watering Containers which would not react chemically to the slight acidification, so no old-time Galvinized Waterers for this...and 'Stainless' Steel of non-red-chinese provenance would probably be ideal.

'red-chineese' versions of 'stainless Steel have Lead, and other nasty stuff they smelt down and fabricate fake 'Stainless Steel' out of since this suits their sense of humor, especially for 'export' things...



Anyway, Sour Crop can become a 'disease', or can be an infection of a sort, in the sense that Molds, Yeasts, or their fermentations of the feed, occasion toxic by-products which poison ( literally, 'intoxicate' ) the Bird's system, or which can spread oddly into areas outside of their digestive system even, and is also an environent in which Candida can be present as an infection, weakening the Bird of course, and as you know, if not treated, these can be lethal.



Rambley...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...did a little fast reading...found this




> Tetracyclines by mouth (medicine for infection)—The tablet form of bismuth subsalicylate should be taken at least 1 to 3 hours before or after tetracyclines; otherwise it may decrease the effectiveness of the tetracycline



That's easy enough to abide...

Quote is from -


http://www.drugs.com/cons/pepto-bismol.html


I would also say that ACV-Water should not be concurrent, should definitely not be combined at the same time, and should probably be with-held for half-a-day anyway, if giving 'Pepto-Bismol' or similar products to a Pigeon.





Phil
l v


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Phil*



pdpbison said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of your comments and astute observations. Also good to know that there is one instance where it needs to be timed properly or avoided with Tetracyclines.

I've never understood exactly what goes on, just that it makes them feel better and even well from being very ill. I figured it mostly neutralized some acids that had run amok but there is probably more to it than that.

As to water, we have our own well and other than about 2ppm of nitrates or nitrites (I can never remember which) our water is very good. I find this disturbing but not alarming. The local municipal water allows two or three times that amount and considers it "normal".

I have had a few RO units over the years as I used them to control hardness and PH for raising fish. I tasted the water and found it to be sour tasting, I suppose due to the low PH, it tastes acidic to me. I don't like it. I am accustomed to very hard drinking water with a PH around 7.8 as all the wells in this area (if they are dug deeply enough) are in limestone aquafers that run all the way from Lake Superior, about 400 miles North.

If I were to purify my own drinking water, I'd probably just get the disposable charcoal filters. They are inexpensive and will remove harmful chemicals. RO membranes tend to get clogged rapidly in hard water and they are fairly expensive to replace.

Bill


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Bill,

We have an RO unit (purification system) at point of use, at the sink, and it is just for drinking as it would be too expensive to do the whole house, it has a pre and post filter also , which leaves our well water tasting sweet. We have to change it about once a year. 

We have the water softener too, so I have a bypass faucet for the birds. That water is hard, but I give them bottled water too.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Treesa*

It is funny how much water varies from one part of the world to the next. I just don't care for RO water for drinking but around here alot of people even buy it to drink. I also don't like the taste of bottled water.

In our house, we also have a water softener as our water is so hard without it that it (lime) builds up on water heaters, dishwashers, faucets and just about everything. All water is softened except the kitchen cold and the outside faucets. It's just better for washing clothes, showering etc. Not the best for drinking.

I tested some bottled water that someone I used to work with insisted on buying to drink. It tested exactly the same as my tap water from home. It was very hard, about 600ppm and had a PH of 7.8. It was labeled some kind of mountain spring water and was over $1 per gallon. Probably comes from someone's well in the area. To me bottled water always tastes like the container that it is in or has a plastic flavor to it if that makes any sense. 

Bill


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Bill, I have enjoyed reading this thread and plan to buy the pepto-bismol tablets to have on hand. 

Years ago, we had to install a whole-house filtration system because sand was getting in our water, otherwise it was pretty good. The water is also hard. It is a deep well, something like 80 feet or more. We have to have it serviced once a year to change the chemicals which, I wonder sometimes, may be worse than the sand. We also added a water softening system later on which helps a lot. We still buy bottled water for drinking and for the birds. I just don't like the idea of the various chemicals that are used in the filtration system.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Bill, I have enjoyed reading this thread and plan to buy the pepto-bismol tablets to have on hand.
> 
> Years ago, we had to install a whole-house filtration system because sand was getting in our water, otherwise it was pretty good. The water is also hard. It is a deep well, something like 80 feet or more. We have to have it serviced once a year to change the chemicals which, I wonder sometimes, may be worse than the sand. We also added a water softening system later on which helps a lot. We still buy bottled water for drinking and for the birds. I just don't like the idea of the various chemicals that are used in the filtration system.


we have a well and I have never been told to put chemicals in it. am I missing something?...we have sand in this area also but the guy who did the well put what he called a gravel pack, which naturally filters the sand, never have had a problem, only chemicals they mentioned were some clorox ever year and flush it through the pipes to keep them clean. well is 200+ deep, love the taste, is a bit hard, but does not bother me.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Different areas have different problems with wells*

It's impossible to tell everyone in the country or the world that they all need to treat their well with this or that. Wells are all different depths and this makes a difference too.

If people lived near a river, lake or stream, they often put in a driven point well that only went down 20 or 25 feet. 50 years ago or longer, this may have been fine but with all of the farm chemicals and pollutants that we have to worry about, I would not have one of these wells at home. Many people still do. They are especially common at lake resort areas and parks.

In my area, the average well is 125 to 175 feet deep. The one at our cabin is 100 feet and that is considered very deep being on a lake. It is new and was dug deep to get away from polution from an underground fuel tank that used to be at the store next to our place.

In sandy areas, there are various ways to deal with the sand and are normally taken care of when a well is installed. The sand itself is actually a good filter.

Anyone who has a well can either buy a bunch of test kits to see what is in their water or they can take it to a local health department to find out if they have anything to worry about. I have tested my own and trust my water for myself and my birds.

I have heard of wells being polluted by earwigs, those lovely little bugs that we got from Europe. Wells in this area are now sealed to a greater degree than what was formerly necessary.

Bill


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