# Found an old (?) feral pigeon, need your help again!



## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Ha, there was a pigeon sitting and trying to move on the ground in front of my house.. I had to take him!
I can't seem to find any reason for him not flying or moving, his wings seem ok, legs too, he just doesn't move much, when he's on the ground he lays on one side (and random side, he's pretty numb most of the time). I gave food and water and he's eating it. I think he could be just old? I can see from under that he was probably sitting for some time because it's not very clean there.. Here are some pictures:























He doesnt even attempt to struggle when i take him or move away from me when i come close..
Help and thanks!
He claps wings to try to move but not very fast, and there i can see that the wings dont look broken..


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Can you mix a teaspoon of salt with half a pint if water to wash her vent area that will make her feel more comfortable.

Egg laying paralysis is one possibilty. *It happens when a hen lays an egg that is a bit large and presses against the sciatic nerve causing temporary leg weakness or paralysis. If it s that the bird needs warmth and quiet, a ramekin of small seed such as canary seed and a ramekin on rehydrating solution 1 pint warm water mixed with half a dessert spoon if honey or sugar and half a teaspoon of salt) within reach of its beak ,dip it beak in the water without covering its nostrils to encourage it to drink ) and calcium supplements suitable for birds . *I use Calvivet, Calcivite or Zolcal D according to the manufacturers instructions, but I don't know what is available in Serbia.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you, I will clean her now!
So you don't believe it's old age?

Edit: I was cleaning her and I checked her feet. The fingers are a bit deformed but i think for some reason not related to why she is not standing (I think she could stand on them, they don't look broken or hurt) and they were reacting to to my pushing and touching, she would start moving then to get my hand away. I didn't clean her fully because when I was doing that she would start moving and squeezing her feet a lot, I got worried maybe something hurts her there? I can repeat it, I stopped to hear you opinion. I think she has a bit more energy now, after eating and resting, but she is still just sitting and if she tries to move she uses her wings and falls around..


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

No, I don't believe it is old age. Feral pigeons seldom live long enough to suffer from old age.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi SaiMino. Again a pigeon with leg issues!! Thanks a lot for rescuing the bird.
Yes I also felt the toes were a bit odd in your last photo, they look like they have boils on them (the left leg esp). How are the poops?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Is she falling around a lot? Any neurological symptoms - neck twisting etc?


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah, leg issues but also flying! She just doesn't fly but nothing looks broken and she doesn't look like she is in pain.. To me, she just looks like she doesn't have enough energy to stand, walk and fly. If she had only leg issues, she could still fly away, right? She looks calm, no random twitches or falling because she looses balance, but I said it wrong and used a wrong word - it's not a real fall (she doesn't stand up), but because she pushes herself with wings, she would sometimes turn and lay on one side more while moving around like that. She's kind of crawling by pushing herself with wings if she wants to move, but I see she does that only when she really needs it. I saw her doing that when i saw her on the street, but when I came to pick her up she didn't try to move away in any way.. Just sat there and I picked her up, didn't try to bite me or clap wings to kick me away or anything..
Yeah her legs are a bit deformed, I don't know is it related..
Edit:Ow and the poop is greenish with white and a bit of water. The supposed to be brown part is kinda black and the last poop I saw, that brown/black part was is not in one piece, but it is made out of many small cylinder shaped pieces.. (i have a picture if needed xD)

Edit2: She attempted (and failed) to fly! I saw one leg isn't moving much (the one with boils, if that's how you call toes that became a deformed, fattened). I took her again and checked her feet and maybe that leg isn't fully functional.. I don't know how can I make sure, I don't want to hurt her by accident.. She pushes away in super speed to get my hands away, the same if I want to clean her vent area.. I am not sure is she in pain when I do that


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

toes..


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## Trish in Dallas (Jun 5, 2012)

You are so kind to help that pigeon. Please keep us posted. I hope she pulls through.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I will tell you my experience, and let's see how it is related. You remember Ricky? Well, Ricky's toes are a bit like in the picture, with fattened regions. He too had one leg weaker than the other, and sometimes I used to see him try to use the wing of that side as substitute for the leg. Btw, I am not sure if they will fly if they have leg problems, because they need to push down on the legs for lift-off. I had got Ricky like 5 months back, with greenish diarrhoea and extremely light-weight, plus wobbling and loss of balance. I treated him with baytril, and also metro since he had canker. His poops became better, but the leg problems became worse until he could not stand by himself unless kept propped by towels. He spent last 4 months in a basket lined with towels. 
But recently, his legs started to show improvement in strength. He started to move by himself out of the basket. He regressed last week and had to be returned to the basket, but since yesterday, has again become adventurous enough to explore out of the basket again.
Sorry for the long story. I suggest treatment for paratyphoid. Paratyphoid can cause boils on legs or wings, thank goodness it hasn't affected your bird's nervous system. Baytril would be the best choice for paratyphoid. His butt is getting dirty because of standing and sitting in one place for a long time (Ricky's used to get dirty too, and he hated me for cleaning it - can't blame them). Perhaps a brick or wooden stick to perch on will solve the problem.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you Kunju! I'm happy Ricky is still with you at home! I am getting curious on seeing how he looks, send me a picture some time! Yaeh, i was thinking of making something to lift her a bit from the floor so she doesn't sit in the poop.. Yeah I guess I will take her to the vet then and see what they say.. I don't want to give her something wrong and maybe make the situation worse.. But now I have school, I am not home all the time like when I was watching over Paolina, so I can't take her any time I want


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes taking him to the vet would be best. Poor thing, in the last photo, I think some toes are missing in the right leg? Or is just the way the photo is taken I don't know. 
All the best in taking care of him.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah they are deformed, 2 are kinda now merged into one deformed mass :/ Wished more people knew what this could be, then I'd know what to expect  I guess I expected a lot because of how the Paolina thread was well responded to..! I really learned some things here that vets didn't tell me that helped a lot. I hope more people will tell what they think


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does she always hold her wing up like that? This could be more than just a problem with her feet or legs. Kunju's suggestion of Baytril may not be a bad idea, as it does cover a lot of things.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Not always, it's just one of the hmm.. overly relaxed poses, I dont know how to call them x) Wings go random ways, sometimes in a nice correct pose, sometimes like this with any random wing..
Today I took a piece of paper that was under her, she moved away fast using legs but it was more like pushing herself on the floor using legs then walking. I don't understand, her legs work, they move, wings also work and move but she can't stand up :/
I noticed recently and thought the way she sits is a bit unusual? I can always see her feet sticking out in front, like she is sitting on her legs that are straight? I don't know  I hope I will be able to take her to the vet, I have school until 1 o'clock and they stop working at 2... I hope I'll make it 
Edit: Vets don't work 'till monday..


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

She stood up today all of a sudden! And just now started spreading her wings! I was thinking, when she is recovered (I hope she will be), do you think I should just release her where I found her and she will find her flock and be ok?
Thanks!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That good news! I suggest keeping her for a week more, and make sure she is doing ok before releasing her. I think she has been with you only for a short while, it will be no problem getting back to where she belongs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you may need to keep her for more than a week, to make sure she is okay, and try to figure out all that is wrong with her. Releasing too soon will just put her back where she was.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Yes, of course I wasn't planning on releasing her now... I was asking do you think when she is recovered, (later) is it ok to release her where I found her, will she know where her flock is and will they accept her and be ok?
I am not in a hurry to release her, so I am planning on keeping her until I'm confident she is fine 
P.S. she walks (a bit clumsy ) around now too!


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## hleigh (Oct 12, 2013)

Hello not sure how this site works but was hoping someone could help me. I have a nish white tail pigeon that i found outside my front door 3 days ago. I am in Annapolis MD USA and we had torrential rain for about 3 days which stopped today. The pigeon was soaking wet and all its feathers were puffed out but it is not injured. We were able to put it in our screened porch and it seemed like it was used to humans, it was walking and following behind me. I gave it water and rice and dried peas. It does not have a leg band. Today we tried to release it and it flew to the outside of the screen and then my husband tried to kindly shoo it and it flew into a large tree in our front yard. However it seemed like it wanted to fly back down into the porch so we left the door open and sure enough it flew down and walked back in. At this point i am not sure if it is a coop pigeon or a racing bird and not sure what we should do with it. The bird seems content, is eating and flies up and down to the fans we have in the ceiling. I had conctacted a local bird rescue yesterday and they said if it is not injured it will fly away so thats what we tried today but it didn't want to go..... Any ideas? He's kinda of cute but making a mess in my patio!


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello Hleigh. I think that the white tail needs to be cantained, then put for adoption or look for its owner. Thanks, you are the only one i have heard of who has a nish white tail. I hope to see a picture of your bird.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello SaiMino. I have witnessed leg paralizm three different times. One was salmonella where both legs got deformed: she recovered with medication and supplements. The second one was a bird that rolled down to the ground and got paralized and the flies killed her i think. The third one was a ferral that got chased by a hawk and crashed into traffic and survived. It also recovered with nothing but rest and food. If your bird puts on wight, than i bet it will recover within two to three weeks. Thanks.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you Hamlet,
yeah, I think she is doing very good without anything, she has good appetite, drinks water and is becoming defensive and struggles when I want to pick her up to clean her box or something. 3-4 days ago, all she could do is sit..! Now she struggles out if I am not firm enough.  Clapped her wings today!


But I am thinking now... should I maybe do a baytril therapy just in case? Are there side effects, can something go wrong if I give it to a healthy pigeon?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello SaiMino. My thought on Baytril therapy is that if you are eventually going to let go back to the wild, then no Baytril.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

hamlet said:


> Hello SaiMino. My thought on Baytril therapy is that if you are eventually going to let go back to the wild, then no Baytril.



Why do you say that? That makes no sense. What does giving Baytril to a sick bird, have to do with eventually releasing it?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello Jay3. I do not know, but i got a bad feeling about these things. Things that are man made mixing with things that are not. If it is a wild thing, then i will probable never see the end of it, so why bother. You know wrong use of antibiotics can create superbugs which if released into the wild may produce more superbugs and there goes Baytril. Finally, the financial aspect. I still like the feral pigeons but i guess i have my limitations when it comes to helping them. Thanks and sorry if i do not agree with some here on PT.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well you can disagree, and that is your right. But to tell someone else not to give Baytril if the bird will be released isn't right. Some times antibiotics are needed to cure a bird of a disease. Under dosing the med so that it doesn't kill whatever you are treating for will cause drug resistant strains in things. Just make sure you knock it out with the correct amount of med and for the correct amount of time.

And there are many of us here that don't discriminate between our birds and the ferals. A birds life is still a birds life, and it does matter to us. So we don't withhold treatment from a sick pigeon just because we will probably never see the end of it. We don't have to see the end of it to know what it will be if we release a sick bird back into the wild. It will die. And maybe infect others before it does. 
If you are not going to help it and use the meds that it requires, then there really isn't much reason to take in a sick or injured bird in the first place, now is there? Good that not everyone feels as you do. There would be no rehabbers to help the poor things. Meds are not all that expensive, and the amount you would use on one sick bird is nothing.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

No need to have these kinds of conversations, everyone can post their opinion and this topic is for helping this pigeon I found, so please answer ME if you have any advice. Finally, I will decide who I want to listen to  so should I give baytril if I am not sure is she sick or not, are there any health risks if I do? And should I release her where I found her, it is an adult bird, do you think she will happily return and be accepted in her flock?
Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would give it for 10 days just to be sure. No health risks. If you release her where you found her, she will make her way back to the flock, and they will know her. She may have a mate even. 

And just to add that _these conversations _ are not just for you. They are also for the many people who will come on and read these threads, and will maybe never post anything.
Just didn't want another reader to think that you should not give Baytril to a sick bird if it is later going to be released. There is just no reason not to.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Nice, ok I will start with baytril now! 
Thanks!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I am not sure on this one. She is obviously healing on her own, since her legs have started to get better. It might take a while, like Jay 3 said, you can watch her for a few weeks, and make sure she is walking properly, and flying well too, before planning the release. 

If in the coming month, her condition declines, I suggest to start baytril. Again just my opinion. I also suggest garlic supplementation, which is a natural antibiotic. Garlic/ACV/probiotics- that kind of supportive treatment.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, do as your gut feeling tells you to. The bird is in front of you, not us. So you can gauge the situation better. Hope he gets well soon.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Her poop is still greenish even though i'm giving her good bird and pigeon seeds.. and it still looks a bit weird, the dark part is made out of small cylinder shaped parts, it's hard to describe it.. like small very short lines, worm like, cylinder shaped pieces.. Is this normal?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

The solid part coming out as cylindrical pieces is something I see sometimes in healthy pigeons as well, but bright - green droppings are abnormal. Are they watery?
I now feel it is good you started on the baytril, it seems that the infection is still active.
Keep watch of how much he is eating, because starvation poops are also bright green in colour.
I read somewhere that liver problems can also cause green droppings.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

baytril therapy starts today once i finally calculated the amount of water she takes in.

Hello! That's her spot, she owns the Chinese paravan thing now


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow, she looks just like a normal healthy pigeon. Hope she gets better soon. I think it will be a challenge for you soon to catch her for giving the meds!


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah, well she likes to be there on the top shelf, I put food and water there so she's there all the time  I would say she's healed if it wasn't for the droppings and her kind of lack of energy. If I woudln't have to clean up under there, I think she wouldn't ever fly! She tends to rather slap my hand or try to move away when i come near then fly, which I thought was a bit weird (since Paolina (the other pigeon I was taking care of before) was flying all over the place a few days before the release). Do you think it's normal she doesn't fly so much? Maybe Paolina was just young and energetic?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's usually better to dose a bird individually, rather than in the water, as you can be sure they have gotten enough of the med. In the water, you can't really be sure.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Yeah.. I could only find it in liquid form.. I was asking for pills, but this is what I could find only. I mesured the amount of water she takes and used a table to calculate how much to give her. I hope it'll be ok, Paolina got cured like this too!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The amount she needs can also be put into bread balls, and given that way.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Oh, yeah smart idea! But i think i'll stick to this, just as soon as i said she's not hard to catch she became hard to catch xD I think she really gets stressed by me touching and catching her, so I'd rather avoid it if i don't have to..


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Not wanting to fly obviously means he is still healing. Great that he has the entire room to practice his flying skills. It is best that you keep your distance, so that he feels the need to practice flying (to get the hell out of there !). 
Once you feel he is flying with control (not crashing into places, but flying with a sense of direction) and is eating well on his own, you can plan his release.
Regarding the medication, I know it is stressful. One way is to catch them so swiftly that they only have time to grunt, before they are in your firm grip. But I myself am so bad at catching, so can't advise..Anyway, hope he heals soon just like Paolina did.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well keeping him caged while treating him would be the best option. It won't kill him to be caged for a while, and it's more important that he gets the correct amount of meds. Or wait till it gets dark. Use a flashlight. He won't fly in the dark, and you can easily pick him up, treat him, and let him go.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Wow darkness! Those are good tips haha
Well she adores the shelf, I put food and med-water there, she goes to it regularly and doesn't really go to anywhere else. 
By the way, when she shakes her feathers and wings, a lot of dust and dirt comes out. She also scratches and it gives me the feeling she would like a bath. I had a bucket of shallow water in the room for 2 days and she never went to it. I put her in there first, but she ran away and that was it. I'm not sure does she release it's water in there.. do you think she would like a bath?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

You can prepare a bath of warm water (with epsom salts) in a bucket. Hold him firmly under his wings (armpits or wingpits rather) and gently dip him in the lukewarm water several times. Spread open the wings as you dip, so the water gets everywhere. Take care not to dip the head. Once you are sure he is fully wet, swaddled him up in a towel. Pat dry as much as possible, and use 2-3 towels more if necessary. Once you are sure he is sufficiently dry and not shivering, release him from the towel and put him out in the sun. He will shake his wings and tail and dry himself. It is best to bathe him in the afternoon, when there is good sunshine.


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## SaiMino (Jul 2, 2013)

Thank you everyone, I forgot to write heh I released her 2 days ago! She became full of energy, I couldn't catch her at all anymore, so I let her go trough the window (I found her close to my house so I think she found her way back). Thanks for your advices again she needed rest most of all! 
Thanks and see ya again, there are many injured pigeons out there, I'm sure I'll be asking for your help again some day!
See ya!


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