# Smith Family Loft USA - "Red Star"



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Here is the video that my friend here on PT does not want you to see !! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R6FV6xUPxc

Claims I am holding this little flying tiger like a pet bunny !!  What say you ?
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=644337&postcount=85

Apparently little "Red Star" here, claims he can whip any White bird in either the Flamingo International Challenge or the Winners Cup !!!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Looks to me like you are just being careful, That is a fine looking young bird.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Beautiful bird! Just in case you were interested in the color, he's a red velvet split for RR.


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## italianbird101 (Sep 12, 2007)

a real nice looking bird


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

OMG love his color RED STAR is beautiful and i wish him many wins in the future


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

That's a very neat looking red. I have a Meuleman hen in my loft which I was told carries recessive red. She however is a dark check. Haven't yet hatched any babies out of her.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

No Warren I already did see it. Give him a kiss for Uncle Jim.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Beautiful bird! Just in case you were interested in the color, he's a red velvet split for RR.


 Really ? I never really followed color genetics much, perhaps you could explain in more detail ? The moma, I have referred to as a blue velvet, never really knew if that was correct in a gentic way. I have an video archieve, which just happens to show my 2011 YB team before the races. In this 6 minute clip, she is shown, not hard to figure out which one, as she was the only one shown with a necktie.  She got to impress me by the number of "smash" races she returned from. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy4W-6z17u0&list=FLItBDRxYNi8L3c6JR9TlS_g&feature=mh_lolz

And if you look throught this clip, look for the red cock bird, (not the RR cock)
that is the Popa, of this Red Velvet. Althought I would like to know what the difference is between red velvet and split for rr. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWFKENsH1mc


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Beautiful bird! Just in case you were interested in the color, he's a red velvet split for RR.


I don't think the flights would be that red if this bird was split for recessive red would they? I think it is **** recessive red. If you are going by the tail color, I have a recessive red mottle with a blue tail. I think it is quite common.

Jim


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## Lavender Hill Lofts (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice looking youngster


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

well why dont you just tell us how it does at the end of the season, we like a good story here from the egg to the finish line .


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

loonecho said:


> I don't think the flights would be that red if this bird was split for recessive red would they? I think it is **** recessive red. If you are going by the tail color, I have a recessive red mottle with a blue tail. I think it is quite common.
> 
> Jim


Yes, ash-red birds split for RR can show red in the flights and/or tail. It could be a coarse RR but I don't think so. I'm thinking dirty ash-red t-pattern (velvet) split for RR. But I will look again. We know the mother of Red Star is carrying RR because one of her parents was RR. So if dad was carrying it too, it is possible. Are RR's common in Ludos'?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

loonecho said:


> I don't think the flights would be that red if this bird was split for recessive red would they? *I think it is **** recessive red. *If you are going by the tail color, I have a recessive red mottle with a blue tail. I think it is quite common.
> 
> Jim


 Now I am thinking I have to dust off the links to color genetics.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I asked a genetics group and they all seem to agree it looks dirty ash-red velvet split for RR, possibly with bronze.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Yes, ash-red birds split for RR can show red in the flights and/or tail. It could be a coarse RR but I don't think so. I'm thinking dirty ash-red t-pattern (velvet) split for RR. But I will look again. We know the mother of Red Star is carrying RR because one of her parents was RR. So if dad was carrying it too, it is possible. Are RR's common in Ludos'?


 I have no evidence that Ludo produced the RR color. It is well known that the color red was produced with some frequency. One of his famous fliers and breeders was Vos 77. Also, produced were some very dark checked birds, which in some cases could be described as blue velvet. The frill's or neckties also occured fairly often for me. Having said that, Ludo would cross in a bird from time to time, which he considered to be better then what he currently had. Going to share some photo's and things which supports what I have said. Note how Ludo introduced a Meuleman bird into family line. See post on previous thread : http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=539414&postcount=73


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

It looks more red velvet then ressesive red. It has a dark beak where ressisive red would have a horned beak OR atleast a stained horned beak. Looks like the bronzing you see in what people call red velvet. BUT muelmans do come in ressesive red pied. But looking at the tail and the blueing in the wing And the dark beak it is catch 22 because we do not have the bird in hand as warren does. To see the true color depth. It does look like a young cock looking at the wing and coverts. One thing for sure it is a pigeon No doubt there.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

Is vos 74 and vos 77 both ludos?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> Is vos 74 and vos 77 both ludos?


There was a cock, son of Late Rode 430, which Ludo referred to as "Vos77", his genetics found it's way into my loft, by was of a son and daughter. Here is the daughter of Vos 77. I don't know what pigeon you are referring to when you say Vos 74.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Oh boy.....*

I am embarrassed, as I discovered something today what may have you questioning my sanity. I already have a few close friends, and of course family members who have known me a very long time, who already know that I lost it sometime during the Viet Nam era, and have yet to find it...but hey....so maybe there a few more falling off the fence on the matter. 

I relied on my memory while responding to the parentage of little Red Star and while making the video. My actual records indicate, that the sire of this "Red Star" is not the red velvet cock shown in the 2nd video, he is the RR with some white feathers, and not the sire of Red Star's mother. It only occurred to me this morning, that the RR Meuleman import cock had been feeding those youngsters. 

This was my pairing back into the line imported from Holland, it is thus 75% Meuleman and 25% Ludo. And in order to remain in good standing with those two gentlemen, and to protect their reputations, I will say the truth is, all I can really say is they are Smith's. The sire being a RR with a few white flights, does now make a bit more sense to the question....duh......sorry about that. 

I didn't select this pairing, but when I saw they were pairing up I thought good, this will provide me some potential breeding stock for crosses back into Ludo based lines, should they be able to demonstrate good homing ability. I am sorry for the confusion I may have caused. So, I would think that changes the picture somewhat. This cock looks to be the same RR of his sire, and less of the pied as in some grandparents, which is all well and fine with me. At this point, both the parents are unproven in the breeding department, with the possible exception of producing beautiful show specimens.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

That is a good looking red hen. I thought Ludo birds were middle distance, by the looks of that red hen I was wrong. Now I want one, that would be a good cross for my Fabry's.
Dave


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I never noticed that you have a lot of cool colors and not just the ordinary blue bars! Too bad your birds would break the bank!


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

Vos 74 was from Horst hackemer janssens? Couldn't find alot about the bird I have one great grandchild of this vos 77 I will be having young out of with a grandchild of vos 74 curious if you knew more about them :x


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> Vos 74 was from Horst hackemer janssens? Couldn't find alot about the bird I have one great grandchild of this vos 77 I will be having young out of with a grandchild of vos 74 curious if you knew more about them :x


 If Vos 74 was a Horst Hackemer Janssen, then I would have no knowlege of his birds. The Vos 77 I was referring to, was bred by Ludo Claessen.


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