# wing clipping? a special case



## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

In about a month, I am going to release two of the three feral pigeons I have been looking after for most of the year.

the third has a spinal ( I think) injury and was rescued by another person and given to me. He didnt know what heppened to her. i think maybe a car hit. 

she can fly a little, however, but her wings droop and she seems in pain sometimes after she flies much. her tail also is drooping and shes constantly losing feathers off it.

I was considering clipping her wings after the others have been released....if she ever tried to go free she'd not survive long. and I couldnt catch her. Shes also very spooky of people, more than the others.
I dont clip now because i take her out to an aviary where she can flap around a bit with the other two, and I dont want her unable to fly up to the perch I built.

can she still fly a few feet up with clipped wings? do they grow back after clipping?

as an only pidge I was planning on bring her in the house more, even if she doesnt like people much.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

she should be fine. i clipped ciel's when she got here, and she still can flap from the floor up to the counter, or desk to chair. they're such ridiculously strong fliers that i clip the pigeons even further back than the parrots'.

i hate doing it,  but it's safer for them.


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## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

psychopomp said:


> can she still fly a few feet up with clipped wings? do they grow back after clipping?
> 
> as an only pidge I was planning on bring her in the house more, even if she doesnt like people much.


Our Willow came to us with clipped wings. She flys and has some lift; not much.... but she can do it. She flys from couch to couch and such. She came to us in Sept. of last year and she hasn't gone through a moult yet, at least of her big feathers (don't know the "techincal" word for them, I think flight feathers) From what I have been told the feathers will grow back after a moult.  Hope that helps. Our Dr. Who is seeing Journey ... also mentioned Clipping her wings to keep her more quite and less active while she is recovering from a resp infection. She too will be an indoor pijie and doesn't like people so much-YET!  lol...We haven't done it yet because shes been so under the weather ... I really don't know what to do about that, so It will interesting to see the responses you get here...


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i would clip her if she is in pain. you can cut a couple primaries at a time on each wing and see how she does, if she needs more you can always cut more.
have you clipped wings before ??
they will grow back


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

you might want to restrict her a little more if she is hurting herself by trying to fly also


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

she seems to know her limits, I dont think she hurts herself trying to fly....she gets to a perch and pretty much stays there. she likes to stretch her wings a little.

she may fly around more indoors though, and even though shes nervous of people, shes gone from shaking like a leaf when I first got her, to growling when my head gets within 4 inches of hers!! so she just may take longer to tame then some. i suspect shes an older street bird who may have been hurt by people....and even though the fellow who rescued her meant well, he kept her alone in a cage in his basement for months.....

oh and No, i havent clipped before!! I will certainly get advice before doing so


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im not clear on why you want to clip. what are you trying to achieve?


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

If you do clip the wings (to prevent her from long flights) try clipping only the first few flight feathers first. 
Normally I clip all the flight feather and will let the birds settle (If I have a bird I feel needs to be flightless for awhile). They can still fly, just not very high and not very long. The feathers will grow back during the next moult, so long as you only clip the feather and not the tip of the wing.
The only caution I really have for you, and I know you are already aware of it, is that when she is outside the loft, be with her and keep an eye on her. Cats and other predators are very quick.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> Im not clear on why you want to clip. what are you trying to achieve?


sorry if its not clear! i am being a worry wort

I take her in and out of a closed aviary. i am worried if she escapes from me, she will certainly die. I dont want to clip her now because she is with two other pigeons and would be at a disadvantage and get less food, kicked off the perch etc. I am going to release those two in a month. when she is with me, I will be taking her in the house and taking her out to an aviary.


it is not a loft, they are enclosed at all times. I would not change that, for safetys sake...but thank you for checking


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

oh and I would only clip feathers!!


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

What if she escapes from you with clipped wings? What are her chances of survival then?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I see no harm in clipping her wings under the circumstances. If you do, make sure you have flour on hand just in case you accidentally clip or nick a blood feather.

You can get a vet to do the first trim then you can trim it from then on using the cut feathers as a guide. We do that with our cockatiel.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> What if she escapes from you with clipped wings? What are her chances of survival then?


she wouldnt be able to fly over our 6 foot fence?? i hope? our yard is totally enclosed by 6 foot fences  I am just trying to prevent a tragedy!

sorry you feel so strongly but she has spinal injuries and is very disabled but not enough that she could fly 20 feet and into a neighbors yard with dogs etc


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

I seem to get the impression that wing clipping is considered cruel.

I am sorry and did not know. I have never clipped feathers before.

My other options are take the risk but still give her fresh air and some wing space. or keep her contained which i personally think is cruel for a very wild older feral afraid of people.

the only other option is....well the worst.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

i've gotten the same impression here on PT. i sort of 'get it' , in that if i were to be adopting a former racing pigeon, to suddenly deprive them of their natural ability to fly free might be cruel. 

but in this situation, she's not gonna get far anyway, and it sounds like she would more than likely get JUST far enough away from you to get unreachable, and then be in REAL trouble. with her wings clipped, she'll stay with you and safe. 

if she REALLY tried hard, she MIGHT be able to get over a six footer clipped, but it doesn't sound like you're thinking of just turning her out into the backyard, like a dog. 

clipping wings is EAAAAASY, seriously, it's like taking scissors to grass. stretch her wing out, and snip the first four or five back .... you know what? i just snapped a couple of photos of where i cut ciel's wings to - i throw them in my 'girls' album, so you can see. 

where hers are cut to, she can still get a decent amount of height and distance, but just not enough to get herself into trouble.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

psychopomp said:


> I seem to get the impression that wing clipping is considered cruel.
> 
> I am sorry and did not know. I have never clipped feathers before.
> 
> ...


well, If she can fly some she must not be too handicapped, feathers do regrow after time, so perhaps you will worry less, but then again maybe it is better for her to use what she has, limited as it is, to excercise and maybe even fly again, she probably would feel less stress when she is in the aviary if she could fly some. If she is squermy, and hard to hold, maybe you can put her in a basket or carrier to put her in the aviary. Im just not so sure handicapping her further is the answer, but if you think it would help her then try it, they will always regrow. it takes a long time though.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have a ferral rescue whose wing I have to keep clipped. It hangs from the elbow where it had been broken and healed before I got her. I leave it as long as I can so that she get get around better, but if I let it grow out all the way, it will drang, and she ends up tripping on it. NOT GOOD! I would only clip the wings of a bird if by NOT doing it would cause it more harm. Other than that, it just isn't natural to clip the wings of a bird. They were made to be able to use their wings. I would build something safe where she could exercise, but not get away and get into a neighbors yard. It isn't hard to build something like that. JMO. Oh, and if you do clip, make sure you can tell the difference in a blood feather and one that is not.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

That's a great idea, to use a carrier when moving her back and forth. I do that with any birds I have to move, just because there have been those few times where I tripped over a dog, or the bird suddenly squirmed, or whatever else can happen, happened. It's easy to pick them up and tuck them into the carrier, and safe that way too. Good luck.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

maryjane said:


> That's a great idea, to use a carrier when moving her back and forth. I do that with any birds I have to move, just because there have been those few times where I tripped over a dog, or the bird suddenly squirmed, or whatever else can happen, happened. It's easy to pick them up and tuck them into the carrier, and safe that way too. Good luck.


I do use a carrier, but theres always a chance that they can get out no matter how hard we try to keep them safe. 
and she *is* very handicapped as far as survival goes. to drag ones wings, and not fly far. yes she can fly 30- even 50 feet, land somewhere exhausted and in pain.

I'm sorry but I feel very judged about this, I was only asking and they do grow back.  and I certainly wasnt going to clip the bone, just very cautiously the flight feather tips

I could keep her perfectly safe by locking her up all the time, but thats not "natural" either!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't know why you are feeling judged. You asked, and we gave our opinions. We each told you how we feel. That isn't judging. If we differ in what we believe so be it. Don't take it so personally.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> What if she escapes from you with clipped wings? What are her chances of survival then?


sorry I asked. 
I think i will leave the site for awhile.

I got sarcasm and people dont seem to believe how injured she is. she is not rehabilitate-able and would likely die a few days in the wild. she has been with me almost a year and her nerve damage seems permanent.

but I thank everyone for the information that was provided.

I thought that a lot of people clipped pet birds wings , and again I Didnt realize I would get such a negative response.

am sorry if i offended anyone for bringing it up.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

I just wanted to point out that psittacines (parrots) that are clipped still have a very viable means of getting around - their beaks. Parrots, cockatoos, cockatiels, parakeets - all of these birds are able to remain highly mobile and active with clipped primary wing feathers. 

I personally am not a proponent of wing clipping past the initial "settling in" period of psittacines (except for medical reasons), and don't really agree with it in terms of pigeons, or any other captive birds with no other means of moving about their environment besides their legs. 

It seems overly restrictive to me. I do understand it in the instances of serious medical condition, recuperation, or handicap... But this bird sounds like she is at no real risk of escape, especially if you use a carrier, and would be literally doomed if she were clipped and _still_ managed to escape - she may have enough lift to get away from _you_, but doubtful that she'd outmaneuver any predators.

Sounds like you'd be really limiting her aviary mobility - getting from place to place and having some limited exercise, for an escape risk that you seem to have already well covered. Just my two cents. Not passing judgement, at all, I swear!  Just my thoughts.
Ultimately you will take in all the advice and choose what works best for your situation, which you know best. But I truly don't think anybody is judging you for being concerned for the safety of your bird. I think your bird sounds like she is in very good hands with you and whatever you choose I am sure will be the right thing.
(Nice thing is, they WILL grow back if you clip but later change your mind!)


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## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Being in a safe home with good food and a loving family that cares enough to take you outside to fly in an aviary with clipped wings beats being out in the cold with no way to survive, since shes disabled. Just my opinion. Its not "natural" to clip a bird, but its not natural to stick a baby in a car seat either. Safety first.

Good luck with this little one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

wovenwoman said:


> Being in a safe home with good food and a loving family that cares enough to take you outside to fly in an aviary with clipped wings beats being out in the cold with no way to survive, since shes disabled. Just my opinion. Its not "natural" to clip a bird, but its not natural to stick a baby in a car seat either. Safety first.
> 
> Good luck with this little one.


Really don't see how you can compare it to a child in a car seat, unless the child is left in there for months at a time. It is probably kinder to let the poor bird have as much mobility as possible. Enough has already been taken away.


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## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Ok...maybe you will understand this better. Take a walk down the street, and look around at all the sick and dead birds. Go visit a shelter, or ask a shelter how many pigeons they house. Try to find a good home for an unwanted bird and see just how easy it is (its not). There are countless pigeons out there who have a heck of a horrible life. No one can deny that.

Its much better for a bird to be loved and cared for, and to have an owner who is providing not only good shelter and good food, but exercise and fresh air , than for that bird to be living under a viaduct, digging in trash cans and backyards for dog food, bread, or whatever else it can find.

Hows that for a comparison? Better than a baby in a car seat? Hope so.

To the pigeon owner:
Clip that bird if you have to , and forget about it. You are doing a great job even asking about how this may affect your bird emotionally and physically. Thats one lucky pigeon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

wovenwoman said:


> Ok...maybe you will understand this better. Take a walk down the street, and look around at all the sick and dead birds. Go visit a shelter, or ask a shelter how many pigeons they house. Try to find a good home for an unwanted bird and see just how easy it is (its not). There are countless pigeons out there who have a heck of a horrible life. No one can deny that.
> 
> Its much better for a bird to be loved and cared for, and to have an owner who is providing not only good shelter and good food, but exercise and fresh air , than for that bird to be living under a viaduct, digging in trash cans and backyards for dog food, bread, or whatever else it can find.
> 
> ...


Don't know what your problem is. We merely gave an opinion on clipping a birds wings. Most don't agree with it. It only serves to handicap the bird further. Kind of hard for the bird to even exercise when he can only walk. If the bird is to be carried out to an aviary, in a carrier, then it would be pretty hard for it to escape. The fact that the bird is lucky to have someone to care for it and keep it, is not in question. Whether the bird would be better off clipped or unclipped was the question. Unless absolutely necessary, the bird is better off unclipped. Not everyone, but most agree with that. We should be able to say that without her taking it personally and feeling picked on. The opinions here on everything are many. Just trying to explain to her that there are other options than clipping its wings. 

You said " Its much better for a bird to be loved and cared for, and to have an owner who is providing not only good shelter and good food, but exercise and fresh air , than for that bird to be living under a viaduct, digging in trash cans and backyards for dog food, bread, or whatever else it can find."

No one is disputing that. Only saying that doing this with wings intact are better for the bird. And that is simply the way it is. She can and I'm sure will do whatever she wants anyway. Just trying to get her to look at it from the birds point of view. And to look at the different options. Which doesn't seem to concern either one of you. And certainly isn't worth wasting any more time on.


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## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

The beauty of this world is its diversity, not all of us have to see things the same way. What is good for one, may not be the best for another.

Feathers grow back. If the wings are clipped then psychopomp will be able to observe her pigeon be able to determine what is in her best interest , and either allow them to grow back, or clip again. Best wishes to her and to her lucky bird.

Namaste,
Edie


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