# Open loft question



## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi, I've been reading posts here this summer and learning alot. I had a question though for those who have open lofts. How large of an opening is large enough for the birds to come in but hawks and owls will not? Can the opening be just bird width, or do the birds need room to open their wings.

I've only had the flock since the beginning of summer although I have had a stray white homing pigeon who showed up a year ago and decided to stay. I got him some friends and until a few weeks ago all was well. Then I have had an owl go in the loft at night and a hawk during the day. I lost a few birds but mostly the rest are afraid to come in the loft to roost at night. Right now they are all under lock down until I decide what to do.


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## TN_PIGEON (Aug 20, 2010)

I think most folks only leave their traps open while they are waiting for their birds to return (and then they close the loft)


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

TN_PIGEON said:


> I think most folks only leave their traps open while they are waiting for their birds to return (and then they close the loft)


Hi snowyloft,

For the most part when I hear open loft or someone talk about an open loft I think of the ability for my pigeons to fly about freely as opposed to them being shut in individual breeder boxes.

Also I think you will find that most of us do not leave our lofts open for intruders to invade. A real important element that was taught to me was if you want your birds to home properly they have to feel safe and secure in their home. 

Pastor Walter
Vermont


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

I guess what I meant is that the door was always open and they came and went as they liked. They were content and secure until the last few weeks. I'm reading other posts about hawks being more of a problem during certain times of the year so I'm thinking of keeping them in for a few weeks until the hawk gives up and goes away. I had a large flock of collared doves that had been hanging around which have disappeared. I saw a small hawk a few days ago sitting up on the barn.

I truly enjoy watching them fly. Usually when I come out to the barns in the morning just after sunrise they are circling around and will fly right over my head as if in greeting. They look so depressed right now being closed up. Their loft is 14 feet X 10 feet so there is plenty of room, but no sunshine in the winter. I believe if I only let them fly now and then they will not develop their flight muscles to allow them to escape predators.

The problem is that their door is large, so the hawk came in the loft after them or at least I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

So, I'd like to put in a small door that is large enough that they can go through and that I can close at night or when I decide they need to stay in for awhile. What size is the smallest opening that they will use?


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## TN_PIGEON (Aug 20, 2010)

snowyloft said:


> What size is the smallest opening that they will use?


You can trap train them to use pretty small openings (some folks even use 4 inch PVC pipes). Put a landing board out for them so they can step into the loft. 

I think the drop traps have openings that are just a couple inches wide. that might deter larger birds.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

The opening doesn't have to be large. Mine is about 14" long and about 7" high.
That still wouldn't stop a determined hawk or other predator from gaining access tho.


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

klondike goldie said:


> 4" wide and 5 1/2" tall just close it up when the birds are in and you are ready for them to stay in for a while. always close it at nite.


This is what I had in mind. I planned on putting landing boards on both sides with a frame around it so they could find it easily. The small hawk I saw nearby is about twice that size. Wish me and my birds luck. You can sure get attached to these guys.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

snowyloft said:


> This is what I had in mind. I planned on putting landing boards on both sides with a frame around it so they could find it easily. The small hawk I saw nearby is about twice that size. Wish me and my birds luck. You can sure get attached to these guys.


 open loft in my mind is a bad idea as you will tend to lose alot of your birds to birds of prey while you do ,but more so if you dont lock it up come nightfall ..all it takes is one raccoon to get into your loft at night and all your birds could be killed in one night , hawks during the day could easily killed off a small flock of birds when in a killing frenzy too so you have to outweight the pitfalls verses the benefits of doing this ..


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> open loft in my mind is a bad idea as you will tend to lose alot of your birds to birds of prey while you do ,but more so if you dont lock it up come nightfall ..all it takes is one raccoon to get into your loft at night and all your birds could be killed in one night , hawks during the day could easily killed off a small flock of birds when in a killing frenzy too so you have to outweight the pitfalls verses the benefits of doing this ..


I understand that letting them fly means I will lose some. But, I have a hard time caging these birds that simply love (and lives) to fly. I can't see the purpose in just looking at them sitting there. They may be safe, but what's the point? I'm sure this has been discussed before.

I don't have raccoons in this area and hawks are a rarity. Only once in a while a pair of red-tails come around but the ravens harass them terribly. I'm at 7,300 feet altitude considered high desert, pinon/juniper forest. I've kept a large flock of free range chickens for 4 years and only in the last month had an owl go right inside the coop at night and killed a few. I started going out after sunset and locking them in and have had no more problems. I will also lock up the pigeons at night when I start letting them out again.

I had thought at first that the owl went in the pigeon loft since it was pretty wide open, and it may have. Then I think a small hawk attacked during the day. 

My guardian donkey who patrols around the goat pens (the loft is inside the pens with the goats, in fact, it used to my milking room). The donkey stomps on any snake it sees and attacks any other animal that comes near her goats.

So, I'm trying to come up with a compromise so they can fly during the day and yet be as safe as possible. They are going to stay locked up for at least several weeks. We have some storms coming up with predicted high winds and snow so that works out.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2010)

snowyloft said:


> I understand that letting them fly means I will lose some. But, I have a hard time caging these birds that simply love (and lives) to fly. I can't see the purpose in just looking at them sitting there. They may be safe, but what's the point? I'm sure this has been discussed before.
> 
> I don't have raccoons in this area and hawks are a rarity. Only once in a while a pair of red-tails come around but the ravens harass them terribly. I'm at 7,300 feet altitude considered high desert, pinon/juniper forest. I've kept a large flock of free range chickens for 4 years and only in the last month had an owl go right inside the coop at night and killed a few. I started going out after sunset and locking them in and have had no more problems. I will also lock up the pigeons at night when I start letting them out again.
> 
> ...


 Well then it sounds like you have it under control and the locking them up at least for the night is a great plan ,its those things that we cant see that harm them the most..Today I had 3 coopers hawks sitting within a stones throw away from my loft , I wouldnt have noticed more then the one but they were screaming to each other which gave the other two away..had I let any of my birds out this morning that surely would have been a bad thing ,my point being just because you dont see it ,doesnt mean its not there .. I wish you well on keeping them safe


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

loft flying depends on your hawk population.. I loft fly almost everyday.. have not lost a bird.. since I just do not remember last hit 6 months ago..was able to catch the bird and save him....


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

Just an update. I made a nice drop down door for the loft. Actually, it was the front of a breeding box someone had given me so the door has a nice curve at the top and it was just the right size. 

I had just cut out the wire from the opening and had the drop-down (landing board) door open because I hadn't closed it yet. I was picking up a few things on the outside of the loft when a young bird flew over to investigate this new thing. He (or she) walked through the door out onto the landing board, walked back in, walked back out, then back in again. Then he flew down to the floor and jumped up and down flapping his wings like he had done the most courageous thing any pigeon could do. I closed up the door and will wait a few days, once this windy cold front goes through to let them fly.


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## Andyfitz (May 29, 2010)

snowyloft said:


> Just an update. I made a nice drop down door for the loft. Actually, it was the front of a breeding box someone had given me so the door has a nice curve at the top and it was just the right size.
> 
> I had just cut out the wire from the opening and had the drop-down (landing board) door open because I hadn't closed it yet. I was picking up a few things on the outside of the loft when a young bird flew over to investigate this new thing. He (or she) walked through the door out onto the landing board, walked back in, walked back out, then back in again. Then he flew down to the floor and jumped up and down flapping his wings like he had done the most courageous thing any pigeon could do. I closed up the door and will wait a few days, once this windy cold front goes through to let them fly.


you should post some pictures


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