# A sad day for the sport.



## jboy1 (Jan 26, 2005)

Charges to be filed for gambling.Here is a link to the story.

http://theloftreport.com/breaking-news-au-official-to-be-charged-with-illegal-gambling/


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*RE sad day*

It is a sad day. I have followed the story and feel bad for the damage this will do to the reputation of the organization. I remember when I attended meetings for races as a youngster and there were "bets" all the time. People did not think much of it. This seems to be at most a technical violation of the law, but as we were taught even that type of violation leads to convictions. All clubs should check with a local attorney to determine if what you are doing is allowed. I have had to explain to fellow owners that a pigeon may be a pigeon, but by statute and local ordinances a pigeon can also be a chicken or a duck . As I have posted many times on this site I can help some people in Michigan, as that is where I am licensed to practice law, but others must consult attorneys. Every year the Attorney General posts that all those March madness pools you play at work are illegal yet most pay no attention to the ad. If the pools get high or someone's spouse complains about his/her gambling addicted partner and then they will realize the problem when it is too late.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

KO Loft said:


> It is a sad day. I have followed the story and feel bad for the damage this will do to the reputation of the organization. I remember when I attended meetings for races as a youngster and there were "bets" all the time. People did not think much of it. This seems to be at most a technical violation of the law, but as we were taught even that type of violation leads to convictions. All clubs should check with a local attorney to determine if what you are doing is allowed. I have had to explain to fellow owners that a pigeon may be a pigeon, but by statute and local ordinances a pigeon can also be a chicken or a duck . As I have posted many times on this site I can help some people in Michigan, as that is where I am licensed to practice law, but others must consult attorneys. Every year the Attorney General posts that all those March madness pools you play at work are illegal yet most pay no attention to the ad. If the pools get high or someone's spouse complains about his/her gambling addicted partner and then they will realize the problem when it is too late.


I think they will go after the one loft races before they go after individual clubs! I could be wrong but I don't think so. PETA wants something that will give them the most bang for their buck. So the AU races and one loft races will be formost on their minds. (if they have one)


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

Be careful filling out your march madness bracket. It's really no different. You better give big brother a piece of the action or else.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

The way I read the Oklahoma Commercial Gambling Statute, (what the individuals are chaged with violating).........entering one loft races regardless of the entry fees or amounts of prizes offered shouldn't be a problem. The problem is with the pooling that occurred during the Convention and that's going to be hard to argue.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

That will be hard to argue, unless PETA cut and spliced the tape, then they should be charged with tampering with evidence.
Dave


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

PETA is getting out of hand I just read that they are going after the Iditarod also.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I do have to say PETA does a lot of good, 10 or so years ago a guy here in Ne was starving his horses and several died. They were responsible for him going to jail and the horses placed in good homes. When they do this kind of thing I give them 2 thumbs up. 

There are a lot of pigeon people that do kill birds that don't perform, we all no at least one, but I wish they would leave pigeon racers alone. They should stick to the cruelty thing. JMO
Dave


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The ASPCA and other equine organization rescues can handle those abuse cases too, not just a militant group that wants animals to have the same legal rights as people, what is next Dairy farms?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Too bad PETA doesn't go after the abuses of the Congress & Senate! They probably let them slide since they are all snakes!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

bbcdon said:


> Too bad PETA doesn't go after the abuses of the Congress & Senate! They probably let them slide since they are all snakes!


LMAO That is to bad.
Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

I am confident, that once the parties have their day in court, that the AU will be found not guilty. But, it did accomplish what PETA wanted to accomplish, which is wide media coverage, and additional contributions ! Day may soon be here, where your average fancier won’t be able to simply sit on the sidelines and expect others to fight for the right to keep pigeons. Because rest assured, PETA has no real interest or concern with alleged gambling, they want to stop all pigeon racing, and pigeon keeping. This just happened to be an easy target, but they are by no means through. Today it is alleged gambling, next week it may be the alleged cruelty of pigeon racing, or even keeping pigeons confined to a cage. This should be a wake up call to all those sitting on the sidelines.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am confident, that once the parties have their day in court, that the AU will be found not guilty. But, it did accomplish what PETA wanted to accomplish, which is wide media coverage, and additional contributions ! Day may soon be here, where your average fancier won’t be able to simply sit on the sidelines and expect others to fight for the right to keep pigeons. Because rest assured, PETA has no real interest or concern with alleged gambling, they want to stop all pigeon racing, and pigeon keeping. This just happened to be an easy target, but they are by no means through. Today it is alleged gambling, next week it may be the alleged cruelty of pigeon racing, or even keeping pigeons confined to a cage. This should be a wake up call to all those sitting on the sidelines.


yes i think you're right!


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am confident, that once the parties have their day in court, that the AU will be found not guilty. But, it did accomplish what PETA wanted to accomplish, which is wide media coverage, and additional contributions ! Day may soon be here, where your average fancier won’t be able to simply sit on the sidelines and expect others to fight for the right to keep pigeons. Because rest assured, PETA has no real interest or concern with alleged gambling, they want to stop all pigeon racing, and pigeon keeping. This just happened to be an easy target, but they are by no means through. Today it is alleged gambling, next week it may be the alleged cruelty of pigeon racing, or even keeping pigeons confined to a cage. This should be a wake up call to all those sitting on the sidelines.


Warren:

What actions are you suggesting?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I just got this from Randy at World of Wings.
Dave

As many of you may already know, three of our fellow Pigeon Friends are in 
need of our help! All three of these people have given and given to our Sport in 
so many ways. We as fellow Pigeon Racers cannot simply turn our backs on them in 
their time of need. I will not go into all the details but most of you have 
heard about the situation from one source or another. All of us love our Birds 
and this Sport and believe in the Freedom that this Country was founded on. I 
also believe that we can all stand together and make a differance. I have 
recieved many phone calls asking if we could put together a fund raising auction 
to help offset the legal cost for these individuals. 

I can tell you that all three of these individuals are some of the best 
people I have ever known. Each of them were always willing to help the Sport and 
have given so much to the sport that it would take many days and hours to put a 
list together that would bring to light all their contributions and hard work. 
With all this said we will set up a legal fund account for these three 
individuals at our local bank and we have created a CATAGORY on our Auction site 
'OKLAHOMA CITY LEGAL DEFENSE FUND'. All you have to do is list a kit of young 
birds or a special breeder under that Catagory and the proceeds will be 
deposited into that account. The money will be divided amoung the three 
individuals equally to help each of them with their legal needs. We hope that 
you tell your friends about this Auction Fund Raiser and we can all pull 
together and make it successful. I hope everyone will step up to the plate and 
help out. They need us!!! Thanks in advance to all of you.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

raftree3 said:


> The way I read the Oklahoma Commercial Gambling Statute, (what the individuals are chaged with violating).........entering one loft races regardless of the entry fees or amounts of prizes offered shouldn't be a problem. The problem is with the pooling that occurred during the Convention and that's going to be hard to argue.


Sorry I didnt explain it better but the side bets and pooling is what I was reffering to in the one loft races and big AU races.

I also believe Warren is absolutely right PETA is not done with us by any stretch of the imagination. They will simply sit back and bide their time till someone F's up and they will be ready to pounce. All it will take is one huge loss of birds to get published, it won't matter why the birds got lost.

Or they will create the situation by having one of their members possing as a new flier, or possibly a flier from another location (country) come into your club and want to bet on the birds. Then you will see everything up on u-tube and be tried in the court of public opinion rather than actual court long before you ever get the chance to go to trial. 

Just be careful and vett your new people, then it goes without saying that we probibly all have one or two who lean towards PETA type activites within our own ranks and should know not to trust them.......

This does not mean that all members of PETA are sniviling snakes in the grass, (saving the horses was a good thing), but with that said there is the activist wing of PETA that is just waiting to jump ......... so be careful.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

If I were hosting a OLR, I would have security at the entrance to the property, and not allow anyone on the premises that could not prove that they are in some way affiliated with the race!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I agree with lawman PETA is not done with us, they will sit back and watch. If some thing does not happen fast enough for them, they will find a way to make things happen. That,s the part we really need to watch the activist, when they get the ALF involved, that's when the sh__ will hit the fan.

I had a kid steeling birds a few years ago, now I have a deer cam set up but that does not catch them in the act. The next day I got my birds back.

Now I have other way's to tell if some one is in my loft, and as a friend says we must protect our property, lock and load.
Dave


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am confident, that once the parties have their day in court, that the AU will be found not guilty. But, it did accomplish what PETA wanted to accomplish, which is wide media coverage, and additional contributions ! Day may soon be here, where your average fancier won’t be able to simply sit on the sidelines and expect others to fight for the right to keep pigeons. Because rest assured, PETA has no real interest or concern with alleged gambling, they want to stop all pigeon racing, and pigeon keeping. This just happened to be an easy target, but they are by no means through. Today it is alleged gambling, next week it may be the alleged cruelty of pigeon racing, or even keeping pigeons confined to a cage. This should be a wake up call to all those sitting on the sidelines.


I agree with you - I cannot understand though why this was allowed to go to court ! Is it because PETA has deeper pockets than the AU and they can "lobby" the right people?

Also to clarify - I do not believe the AU took a cut of the "pools" or what is now called "alternative entry form".


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

irishsyndicate said:


> I agree with you - I cannot understand though why this was allowed to go to court ! Is it because PETA has deeper pockets than the AU and they can "lobby" the right people?
> 
> Also to clarify - *I do not believe the AU took a cut of the "pools" or what is now called "alternative entry form"*.


 Well, that is what the state will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, to a jury of 12 people. Cases go to court every day, that should not go to court. The judge can make a determination at the preliminary hearing, if indeed there is enough evidence to proceed to court.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Granny Smith said:


> Warren:
> 
> What actions are you suggesting?


 Well, how about everyone get their check book out, and write a check ? What is it worth to you to be able to have a loft in your back yard with pigeons ? What is it worth to you to be able to race pigeons ? Well, there is an organization out there called PETA, who wants to ban pigeon racing and pigeon keeping. For the cost of a video camera, and a few hours, they will cause us to spend tens of thousands of $$$'s. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4S2iGYifto

$37,000,000 annual budget, and yet they kill over 95% of the animals they received donations to save.

These guys provide a good back ground on PETA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Why doesn`t the AU and the IF and the other pigeon org`s,keep the story of the killing of dogs/cats etc by Peta,in the news all the time....Put the story in PRINT in magazines etc....Don`t stop looking for MORE bad things they do...It`s worth the money,to do so...Put the pressure on THEM,to spend their money on SAVING the lives of the animals,instead of putting the $$ in their pockets...Go after them in restraunts,and take their pictures eating MEAT etc....Go after the big guns,and make them look like bigots,which they really are....Alamo


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

well i ll stand up and fight any way i can, i think its sad that an attack on pigeon people in general could even happen. my grand fathers and yours fought so i could have these small freedoms and rights. now we have let these things that were ment to help us have transformed into a monster looking for a job, i guess we are the target this month. i say we stand up all around the world for every corner and say no NO *NO* we can have our beloved birds.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> Why doesn`t the AU and the IF and the other pigeon org`s,keep the story of the killing of dogs/cats etc by Peta,in the news all the time....Put the story in PRINT in magazines etc....Don`t stop looking for MORE bad things they do...It`s worth the money,to do so...Put the pressure on THEM,to spend their money on SAVING the lives of the animals,instead of putting the $$ in their pockets...Go after them in restraunts,and take their pictures eating MEAT etc....Go after the big guns,and make them look like bigots,which they really are....Alamo


 The AU is, by way of members like you and me. If you have a FB page, then help educate your friends and relatives. If every AU member does this, that is more then a few people in an office, attempting to preform the tasks assigned to them already, could ever possibility do.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

This is just my opinion, but I also believe that the media being biased, will pickup and publish stories of certain special interest group's such as PETA, since they have a large following, and have financial resources which enable them to reach out to the public in different situations to further their cause.


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## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

*illegal?*

If what was done was illegal then the thing to do is learn the legalities and not do it again.
I'm sure any actions that were technically illegal could be explained as just an unawareness of the law, pay the fine and move on.
Trying to retaliate just leads to more bad press and away it goes. I have seen in my 70 years that just saying you are wrong, if you are, is the best policy.
It's like getting a speeding ticket if you are speeding.
This is just my opinion and is not meant to cause a lot of posts.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

What about the legalities of being an illegal alien, and now the congress and senate want to grant them amnesty just to buy their votes at the taxpayer's expense???


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ozarkbill said:


> If what was done was illegal then the thing to do is learn the legalities and not do it again.
> I'm sure any actions that were technically illegal could be explained as just an unawareness of the law, pay the fine and move on.
> Trying to retaliate just leads to more bad press and away it goes. I have seen in my 70 years that just saying you are wrong, if you are, is the best policy.
> It's like getting a speeding ticket if you are speeding.
> This is just my opinion and is not meant to cause a lot of posts.


I don't think you will ever get PETA to admit, that they have been wrong, and that some of their actions have been illegal, such as killing dogs they were paid to save, and dumping them in dumpsters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t4S2iGYifto

But, you are correct, they should just admit their ties to domestic terrorist groups, and stop their other illegal activities, and admit the error of their ways.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

I defend my AU membership and the reputation I represent it with. But I dont take sides much in legal matters. I dont know the gentlemen I can only adhere to good word from close friends of them. As far as the AU is concerned, it is a tragic situation but I guarantee this will not stop the sport.
However, as far as PETA is concerned...well they will always be on the heads and tailcoats of ANY AND ALL animal sports, and will cease any opportunity to exploit it because, well, people are suckers for animals and theres big money in anything where people are so infatuated with that sort of thing. PETA is but a stepping stone to actual awareness. And what I meam by that is it shouldnt take PETA investigating whatever they want to investigate this year to make people aware of what is going on in their clubs. Say what you will defend what side you must but if clubs investigated themselves on a regular basis, I.e. important officials and the going ons when PETA.comes snooping we wouldnt have this problem.
But my loyalties lie with my club. So as far as im concerned, innocent until proven guilty.
I hate the fact that with anything, the actions of a few determine the reputation of the all.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

It seems "Easy" to pick on the "Pigeon Keepers",because we have no financial backing,like the dog & horse racing industry etc has...This makes us an easy target for them....And the general public has NO knowledge about keeping pigeons,whether racing or fancy pigeons....That`s where we are the weakest...NoBody knows how great this hobby is.....Other then we do !!!............Alamo


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

irishsyndicate said:


> I agree with you - I cannot understand though why this was allowed to go to court ! Is it because PETA has deeper pockets than the AU and they can "lobby" the right people?
> 
> Also to clarify - I do not believe the AU took a cut of the "pools" or what is now called "alternative entry form".


You are absolutely right! The deeper the pockets, translates into buying the politicians, and lobbying is just a nice word for bribes!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Also, "offense" is sometimes the best "defense" in certain matters. Find holes in their organization and bring it out into the sunlight and expose their flaws!!!


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I personally don't agree with the major pigeon organizations going after PETA and saying they did this and this, its like fighting fire with fire. I really wish there was some way however for pigeon racing to be something that everyone knows about, and to have at least 50% of those people not think we are crazy. 

I am the youngest member in my club and at the last meeting we discussed a charity race of some sort where proceeds go to our local 4H, hopefully that way we can share pigeons and pigeon racing with younger people, and maybe we will pick up a few members. Now I suggest you all the bring that idea up to your club. Make it an affordable race where proceeds go to a local 4H or FFA, you don't need an extra week of racing, just do a separate release at one of your stations that you have. Make there be some prize money so guys actually get in it, and then donate a large % to the 4H or FFA. Hopefully our idea has spurred ideas for many of you as well to get pigeons across to many people.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I believe PETAs idea is to discredit pigeon racing as a cruel hobby. To try and get it banned. They started going after the hobby if YOU REMEMBER when TYSONs Show aired on pigeon racing. They wanted to get it canceled befor it AIRED. Then they went after gambling and at that time acused The national bodies of supproting gambling. ALL this to go after there set task. STOP PIGEON RACING.. This is sad for the sport As it cost money to defend your self in court. They know this. And they get PUBLICITY to fight there cause.. PETA would rather see No one have dogs cats birds reptiles fish. And see everyone be a vegetarion. The WOW has setup an AUCTION to help with the legal fees IF some one wants to donate Young bird kits Or any of there birds to be auctioned off to help ALL 3 charged. And A new look at Who is going to events and clubs As they might be SPYS for a cause. In time I hope the side of RIGHT wins and peta faulters agin.


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## jboy1 (Jan 26, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well, how about everyone get their check book out, and write a check ? What is it worth to you to be able to have a loft in your back yard with pigeons ? What is it worth to you to be able to race pigeons ? Well, there is an organization out there called PETA, who wants to ban pigeon racing and pigeon keeping. For the cost of a video camera, and a few hours, they will cause us to spend tens of thousands of $$$'s.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4S2iGYifto
> 
> ...


That second video is some funny stuff.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The only way to hurt Peta,is to take away the donations they get...And that is only done with giving them BAD publicity...And that means you have to go out after them...We are NOT the only group that takes a hit from Peta...Why don`t the pigeon Org`s,join up with the OTHER Org`s,that Peta goes after....There`s strenght and MONEY,when you have the *numbers* to fight them back....Alamo


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Because people actually have lives to attend to. Not everyone can spend their time fighting the power like PETA, who have all the time money and resources in the world. Fighting PETA as a whole will accomplish nothing but frustration. These are simply people one has to deal with in any case with any major animal sport or activity. Its like the few crooked police who infatrate communities. They have nothing better to do. Its their jobs. All you can do is try not to get caught up. Fighting PETA is hopeless. Just dont get caught up and PETA wont come around. Document everything. Keep track of every cent. Take more interest in what your felliw fanciers are doing in your organization. I will say that everyone wants to defend those 3 and bash on PETA, when none of you know IF they even committed it. Yes PETA should keep their big fat noses out of things that dont concern them, but dont jump the gun on certain things. Stay neutral. PETA will not go away unless you culled every member..haha..so yes raise money and help them get a good defense but they better damn well be innocent before you do.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

First To Hatch said:


> I personally don't agree with the major pigeon organizations going after PETA and saying they did this and this, its like fighting fire with fire. I really wish t*here was some way however for pigeon racing to be something that everyone knows about, and to have at least 50% of those people not think we are crazy.
> *
> I am the youngest member in my club and at the last meeting we discussed a charity race of some sort where proceeds go to our local 4H, hopefully that way we can share pigeons and pigeon racing with younger people, and maybe we will pick up a few members. Now I suggest you all the bring that idea up to your club. Make it an affordable race where proceeds go to a local 4H or FFA, you don't need an extra week of racing, just do a separate release at one of your stations that you have. Make there be some prize money so guys actually get in it, and then donate a large % to the 4H or FFA. Hopefully our idea has spurred ideas for many of you as well to get pigeons across to many people.


 I don't know.....sounds like that maybe could be construed as some sort of game of chance or OMG !! Gambling !! Maybe we should run this by PETA's legal staff and see if they OK with this. I can see it now, some little ole lady caught on some undercover video, trying to lay off a $2 bet, for "Red Horse 77" to WIN !! Then, PETA will have grandma brought up on charges, along with the rest of the Bingo gang at St. Patrick's with perhaps Father Smith as the ring leader of this RICO violation. 

I would just feel terrible. And I don't wanna go into no Pennsylvania BIG house. If they want to have a race, we can do that, just have every member write a check out to the charity, and bring it to club house on shipping night, that way, money goes right to charity, and donor has a check as a receipt. Then have a photo op shoot releasing a crate of pigeon, with the news media, and then turn over all the checks. Almost a one man operation, just appoint a club member to do it, make the calls, etc. Good idea. That is the cleanest way, or just hold a regular race and charge $10, $100, $500, $1000 for each class of "trophy" per bird, in lieu of a really nice trophy, participants donate 90% of these trophy funds, the balance paid to winners, truck driver etc. depending on state laws, permits, fees, filings, etc. etc.

PS.

In response to the highlighted remark, the problem is, more then 90% of pigeon fanciers are to some degree crazy, and some of us have been trying to project the impression that only 50% or so of us are crazy. So, if you can come up with some good promotional ideas that can maybe just sort of gleam over the sanity part, because for the most part, we are mostly a bunch of old guys that prefer the company of birds to people. So, we are a bunch of odd balls, it might just be time to come out of the closet so to speak, and just admit we prefer playing with our birds in our back yards, over attending typical social events. Which is why we must pull teeth trying to get members to attend social functions.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

And btw...who the hell really cares if people gamble anyway? Jeez are we not men?! God I hate certain laws...let people be people. Theyre just made people actually can make money without the government taxing them up the ass.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

re lee said:


> *I believe PETAs idea is to discredit pigeon racing as a cruel hobby. To try and get it banned. *They started going after the hobby if YOU REMEMBER when TYSONs Show aired on pigeon racing. They wanted to get it canceled befor it AIRED. Then they went after gambling and at that time acused The national bodies of supproting gambling. ALL this to go after there set task. STOP PIGEON RACING.. This is sad for the sport As it cost money to defend your self in court. They know this. And they get PUBLICITY to fight there cause.. PETA would rather see No one have dogs cats birds reptiles fish. And see everyone be a vegetarion. The WOW has setup an AUCTION to help with the legal fees IF some one wants to donate Young bird kits Or any of there birds to be auctioned off to help ALL 3 charged. And A new look at Who is going to events and clubs As they might be SPYS for a cause. In time I hope the side of RIGHT wins and peta faulters agin.


 Now you get it ! Has nothing to do with gambling, it is simply a way to give pigeon racing events a PR black eye. Their goal is total animal liberation. So anything that they can do to discourage or stop pigeon keeping is what the agenda is all about.

Our club does not know it yet, but every prospective member will be water boarded going forward. Going to have to break out the ole secret hand shakes, and pass words and such, just like in the good ole days. Since PETA has terrorist links, they could also be members of al-Qaeda, so if they don't pass we simply turn over to the Pennsylvania Militias, this is what it has come down to. We may just have to reactivate the Pigeon Corps to address this new terrorist threat.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

First To Hatch said:


> I personally don't agree with the major pigeon organizations going after PETA and saying they did this and this, its like fighting fire with fire. I really wish there was some way however for pigeon racing to be something that everyone knows about, and to have at least 50% of those people not think we are crazy.
> 
> I am the youngest member in my club and at the last meeting we discussed a charity race of some sort where proceeds go to our local 4H, hopefully that way we can share pigeons and pigeon racing with younger people, and maybe we will pick up a few members. Now I suggest you all the bring that idea up to your club. Make it an affordable race where proceeds go to a local 4H or FFA, you don't need an extra week of racing, just do a separate release at one of your stations that you have. Make there be some prize money so guys actually get in it, and then donate a large % to the 4H or FFA. Hopefully our idea has spurred ideas for many of you as well to get pigeons across to many people.


When you are in battle, you fight to win!!!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would just feel terrible. And I don't wanna go into no Pennsylvania BIG house. If they want to have a race, we can do that, just have every member write a check out to the charity, and bring it to club house on shipping night, that way, money goes right to charity, and donor has a check as a receipt. Then have a photo op shoot releasing a crate of pigeon, with the news media, and then turn over all the checks. Almost a one man operation, just appoint a club member to do it, make the calls, etc. Good idea. That is the cleanest way, or just hold a regular race and charge $10, $100, $500, $1000 for each class of "trophy" per bird, in lieu of a really nice trophy, participants donate 90% of these trophy funds, the balance paid to winners, truck driver etc. depending on state laws, permits, fees, filings, etc. etc.
> 
> http://hekkenklak.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=administrator&item=1364739582
> 
> ...


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I would like to thank bbcdon for being the first person on this site to step up, nice looking bird Don.
Dave

http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=43811


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> http://hekkenklak.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=administrator&item=1364739582
> 
> If more clubs did some thing like this, it would make the sport look a lot tempting to the public.
> Dave


That is what I originally wanted to do because we lost a member last year to prostate cancer, but my whole idea was changed into something else, which tends to happen in clubs.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> I would like to thank bbcdon for being the first person on this site to step up, nice looking bird Don.
> Dave
> 
> http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=43811


Thank you for the kind words Dave. I will be putting more birds up for auction next week for the Oklahoma City Legal Fee Benefit auction. I actually bought them for pumpers, but I got carried away with auction fever!!! They are inbred to famous Ganus birds which Ken Weyer breeds, but does not race. He doesn't need the money as Randy Goodpasture of pigeonauctions.com told me that he has done very well in life.


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

I actually have a lot to say regarding this subject, but it won't change the path competition animals are heading in, so it's a lost cause.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Crazy Pete said:


> SmithFamilyLoft said:
> 
> 
> > I would just feel terrible. And I don't wanna go into no Pennsylvania BIG house. If they want to have a race, we can do that, just have every member write a check out to the charity, and bring it to club house on shipping night, that way, money goes right to charity, and donor has a check as a receipt. Then have a photo op shoot releasing a crate of pigeon, with the news media, and then turn over all the checks. Almost a one man operation, just appoint a club member to do it, make the calls, etc. Good idea. That is the cleanest way, or just hold a regular race and charge $10, $100, $500, $1000 for each class of "trophy" per bird, in lieu of a really nice trophy, participants donate 90% of these trophy funds, the balance paid to winners, truck driver etc. depending on state laws, permits, fees, filings, etc. etc.
> ...


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now you get it ! Has nothing to do with gambling, it is simply a way to give pigeon racing events a PR black eye. Their goal is total animal liberation. So anything that they can do to discourage or stop pigeon keeping is what the agenda is all about.
> 
> Our club does not know it yet, but every prospective member will be water boarded going forward. Going to have to break out the ole secret hand shakes, and pass words and such, just like in the good ole days. Since PETA has terrorist links, they could also be members of al-Qaeda, so if they don't pass we simply turn over to the Pennsylvania Militias, this is what it has come down to. We may just have to reactivate the Pigeon Corps to address this new terrorist threat.


Reactivation of the Army Pigeon Corps and therby protection rights of all banded racing pigeons might be easier than going head to head with PETA. 

However with that said pigeon fliers have historically been an open group. Where the new prospect/flier was welcomed into most clubs without so much as doing a simple back ground check. 

Seems to me there are a lot of simple things that can be done to limit access by those looking to take us down. Like a new prospect/flier coming in and only being interested in gambling on the birds should be a huge red flag to everyone. I'm not talking the guy who makes a bet with another flier abouts who's white bird is going to come in first. I'm talking about guys who supposedly know nothing of the sport but want to talk everyone into pooling lofts and individual birds. Beware of anyone coming into your club in such a mannor and be double certain about the person before you ever allow them to fly with your club.

Or the person who comes in again with limited or no knowledge of racing and all they want to know about is losses on races........ ding, ding, ding. we have a winner people limit their access to actual racing events untill you know a whole lot more about them. Yes there will be losses we all know how a single hawk/falcon can distroy a team of pigeons around their home loft in short order. Let alone a group of hawks on a race.....

Just saying simple things can be done to safegaurd our sport and the PETA people will expose themselves in short order if you let them hang themselves.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

This is a AD that I would put in magazines such as:
Home & Garden...Sports Illustrated....Time....National Geographic...etc..etc !!!

Do you donate your hard earned dollars to HELP unwanted Dogs..Cats...Horses...Birds etc...Well maybe your hard earned dollars are not used in the RIGHT way...Just look at the below picture....That is a dumpster full of dogs & cats,that YOU donated your hard earned dollars for to keep these animals ALIVE...Well,Peta just used your money to kill the animals you see here...And this is ONLY one dumpster....Maybe you should RETHINK who you should donate your hard earned dollars to !!
* This ad is brought to you by Friends of all Animals that are kept as PETS !!!*

*WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IF WE RAN A AD CAMPEIGN IN MAGAZINES,like something of the above??*
I think a $100,000.00 to $200,000.00 should do it quite well....Put the ad`s in magazines that we think people with pets,and a good head on their shoulders would read...Aim our ad`s to reach these people,who have FUNDS to donate...

We have 15,000 to 17,000 racing pigeon lofts...Plus I don`t know how many Fancy Lofts are out there....But if everyone donated $10 to $20,we would have a nice tidy sum to work with....We need the AU & IF etc to get off their butt`s,and start doing something.....Alamo


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

To compete against PETA we would need a real spokesperson, and Tyson is not the man for that. They have the babe watch lady, Loni Anderson and others that do the fund raising.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> PETA is in the news again, this time it is for bullying a 14 year old kid. If you go to the link you can see the entire article and the video.
> 
> When 14-year-old Logan Ward came up with the idea to raffle off a cow in order to raise money to go with a non-profit group on a trip to Europe, he never expected it would mean he’d be receiving antagonizing emails from PETA. But that’s exactly what happened. The animal rights group not only sent Logan nasty messages, but also photos like the one shown here, depicting women wearing lettuce as underwear.
> 
> ...


.....smh..... now theyre bothering juveniles?...smh


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

ok the girls were funny? what the???? ok i want to buy a ticket on the cow, thats really sad, that PETA has gottin out of hand, i really hope that WE THE PEOPLE STAND UP TO THEM!!!

right on law man about bringing back our pigeons to the army corps, does anyone realize its hard to scramble a pigeon , but a radio is easy. these birds have served mankind for thousands of years, and there are alot of really great guys who enjoy the sport , a little understanding would help. 

as far as red flags, people who just want to gamble, and asking dumb questions. be care full how you answer, i know i m a bit of a smart a$$, these hammerheads wont get the joke or even see the humor


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