# This is an important step



## Guest (Jul 28, 2007)

http://tinyurl.com/35zewu

Hollywood Pigeons to Get Birth Control Help


News Conference Sees PETA and Civic Association Launch 'Citizen Pigeon,' a Humane Pigeon Population Project

For Immediate Release:
July 27, 2007

Contact:
Stephanie Boyles 757-622-7382

Hollywood, Calif. -- The Argyle Civic Association and PETA have joined forces to launch a groundbreaking humane pigeon-control project in Hollywood called "Citizen Pigeon." Based on a new state-of-the-art oral contraceptive called OvoControl, the program will kick off on Monday with a breakfast news conference with Thaddeus Smith--owner of The Music Box at the Fonda and booster of the project--who has successfully employed humane methods for dealing with Hollywood's many pigeons. Several business and city leaders are expected to attend:

Date: Monday, July 30
Time: Breakfast: 9:30-10 a.m.
News conference: 10 a.m. sharp
Place: The Music Box at the Fonda, 6126 Hollywood Blvd.

Among other experts who will speak about humane pigeon control will be Erick Wolfe, CEO of Innolytics, which produces OvoControl. Wolfe will offer invaluable tips on how business owners can humanely and economically stabilize and reduce pigeon populations over time. Argyle Civic Association president Laura Dodson--a mainstay behind Citizen Pigeon who for more than three years has studied Hollywood's pigeon population--and PETA wildlife biologist Stephanie Boyles will discuss how businesses and city agencies can participate in the program.

OvoControl, which has proved to be highly successful in field studies, is added to feed that pigeons normally eat and prevents eggs from hatching, thereby reducing the population humanely. PETA points out that this method is preferable to cruel poisons and other lethal methods that do not control animal populations because as long as an area remains attractive or accessible to pigeons, more birds will fill the vacant niches.

"Citizen Pigeon is a win-win project: Businesses get fewer pigeons roosting on their buildings, and pigeons are spared cruel deaths," says PETA's Boyles. "Hollywood has an opportunity to serve as a model for humane pigeon control that will be emulated in cities across the country."

For more information, please visit PETA's Web site HelpingAnimals.com.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pp, this is an interesting article, though the premis for the successful application of this method would involve FEEDING THE PIGEONS  ...I'm
laughing right now because the very people that would stop all pigeon feeding
as a means of control would have to start paying for food for the pigeons, helping all of our pocket books out to focus on rehab issues, lol. Also, I understand that they would have to feed on a regular basis in order for the contraceptive to be effective over time, so it would please me very much to know that the cities where this method was employed were feeding the birds   

fp


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

We actually had this person (Eric Wolfe) post over here in early June. I think this would be a much better outcome for our friends although the message I think that will get through to some is that the additional controls that go along with the Ovacontrol will be lethal. 
Unfortunately, this product is not sold to the public and the pest control folk are the only ones at this time that have access to it. I wish someone could get to this conference and ask that pointed question. I've asked in writing but never got a satisfactory answer.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

What I would like to know is how do they keep other grain eating birds from eating this treated grain. Doves,Finches,Towees,Wrens, just to name a few.I feel that this another hairbrained idea.There is no way that you can keep other grain eating birds from eating this treated grain THINK ABOUT IT. .GEORGE


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

*



What I would like to know is how do they keep other grain eating birds from eating this treated grain.

Click to expand...

*I was wondering the same thing.

I was also wondering if the pigeon does not get enough of this Ovocontrol and the eggs hatch what about deformities of chicks?

I don't know...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

george simon said:


> What I would like to know is how do they keep other grain eating birds from eating this treated grain. Doves,Finches,Towees,Wrens, just to name a few.I feel that this another hairbrained idea.There is no way that you can keep other grain eating birds from eating this treated grain THINK ABOUT IT. .GEORGE


That's easy. They just need to put a sign next to the feed that reads ,PIGEONS ONLY!! NOT INTENDED FOR ANY OTHER BIRDS!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Charis said:


> That's easy. They just need to put a sign next to the feed that reads ,PIGEONS ONLY!! NOT INTENDED FOR ANY OTHER BIRDS!


   

Cindy


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

*



That's easy. They just need to put a sign next to the feed that reads ,PIGEONS ONLY!! NOT INTENDED FOR ANY OTHER BIRDS!

Click to expand...

*That is funny, and I can picture them doing that.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

They have to eat it every day or it won't work. So instead of there being signs
warning of fines for feeding the pigeons, there would have to be signs that in 
order to use rent or walk in that area, there was mandatory
pigeon feeding .. 

I've never heard or read anything about potential deformities should a pij
drop eggs while still eating procuct, but it's an uneasy feeling to hear that
only pest control companies have access to it. But if other birds such as the
ones George lists are able to eat the food too, being protected species, I don't think 
that it would be lawful to have that kind of impact on the eggs-deformities that is.

fp

ps...I'm all for inner city avian literacy!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Hollywood may be a sick place for pigeons to live....*



pigeonperson said:


> http://tinyurl.com/35zewu
> 
> Hollywood Pigeons to Get Birth Control Help
> 
> ...


Gee.....I guess people who like pigeons are suppose to jump up and down and feel really good about this.....imagine if I took this product and fed it to the Cooper Hawk Population......or to some of the Bald Eagles nesting along the river just a few short minutes from our loft, would it sound really humane if I fed it to the really poor people in our local ghetto.....this process, carried on till the end, results in the extermination of a species, I guess killing off the Passenger Pigeon was not enough ? 

I suppose the Corporation selling OvoControl, does not really expect us to support their efforts, just sit by and do nothing to stop it's use. I just can't get excited when our pigeons are singled out for extermination...even with sanitized marketing and road shows...

And saying this crap is "preferable to cruel poisons and other lethal methods" is a cop out...since in many areas, that is now illegal. Tell these assassins to go back to Hollywood...we don't need your brand of humane !


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Loved your comments, Warren.

fp


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Thank You Feral Pigeon,

I once had a conversation with the manager of a Local Terminix operation whose office covered several large counties including the Capital of the Commonwealth of Pennsyvania, Harrisburg, if his office used any sort of "Pigeon Control Products" he said that because of "Ethics" their office would not use those products. 

I told the gentleman that they made a very wise decision because other wise I would have buses unloading in from of their Regional Office protesting their cruel murder of the bird of Peace and would have them on all three local TV News Channels...I told him, most definitely would not be good for business....he wholeheartily agreed...that would be bad....real bad....at least for his career and that office.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren,
You really can be a good egg.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> imagine if I took this product and fed it to the Cooper Hawk Population......or to some of the Bald Eagles nesting along the river just a few short minutes from our loft, would it sound really humane if I fed it to the really poor people in our local ghetto.....this process, carried on till the end, results in the extermination of a species, I guess killing off the Passenger Pigeon was not enough ?


I had no idea that they were exterminating bald eagles and the poor! It must happen under cover of the night like the poisoning of pigeons in Washington. If I was one of the potential victims (and was a lot younger) I would opt for birth control.

The passenger pigeon wasn't wiped off the face of the earth by birth control...they were shot out of the skies and fed to the hogs. If the killers had tried to control their numbers by humane methods then we might still have some passenger pigeons around.

Personally I am a lot happier about humane pigeon control through egg replacement and contraception (if it works) than seeing them hated, deliberately run over, trapped and killed , shot and poisoned. Most of the lethal methods are legal worldwide.

Cynthia


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

cyro51 said:


> Personally I am a lot happier about humane pigeon control through egg replacement and contraception (if it works) than seeing them hated, deliberately run over, trapped and killed , shot and poisoned. Most of the lethal methods are legal worldwide.
> 
> Cynthia


Gee....that would be nice...but it only happens in fairy tale land....since what makes anyone think that any of the above "control" methods will cease just because there is yet another tool to exterminate the "flying rats" ? 

Please forgive me, if I use my local influence to keep my local exterminators and city council in check.....if you want pigeons baited in your own back yard....well then just do nothing... that is all anyone has to do in order for evil to prevail....in the mean time, does anyone still think that feeding the feral is really a good idea ?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is the original thread with the posts from Eric Wolf, CEO of the company that developed this birth control.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20777


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Gee....that would be nice...but it only happens in fairy tale land....since what makes anyone think that any of the above "control" methods will cease just because there is yet another tool to exterminate the "flying rats" ?


What exactly is your real view? 

Firstyou argue that the that the well intentioned people of Hollywood that prefer birth control to murder are "sick" ,then that they believe in fairy tales. And yes, if there were fewer "flying rats" then people would be less eager to murder them.



> Please forgive me, if I use my local influence to keep my local exterminators and city council in check.....if you want pigeons baited in your own back yard....well then just do nothing... that is all anyone has to do in order for evil to prevail....?


I can't see a logical link between that statement and my post  . But I can tell you that I do a lot more than "nothing" and, believe it or not, also use my influence and my resources to stop culls, not only locally but also nationally. 

But do you know something? I prefer NOT to wait until they are about to be killed because of their excessive numbers before I do anything.


What baffles me is why you are so eloquent about arguing about humane control and yet are usually silent on threads about lethal control.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> in the mean time, does anyone still think that feeding the feral is really a good idea ?


I do. Please forgive me if I don't let them starve. I feed them barley which is nutritious and inhibits egg production. 

Cynthia


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm opposed to any kind of control on wildlife. My opinion is to just leave them be. We don't know the impact the birth control might have on the birds' natural predators like hawks and falcons. We don't know what these chemicals could do to the immunity systems of the pigeons or even to their genes. The chemicals used could have an adverse affect on them
in ways we don't yet understand. Do you recall what DDT did to the eggs of eagles? It made them brittle and the population plunged for a long time.

Also, if we reduce the numbers of pigeons over a long period of time, the natural predators can become endangered. In my opinion, when we tamper with Nature, it usually backfires. What happens to the little sparrows when they eat the smaller seed? I don't know.

Additionally, with the attitude most New Yorkers have with these birds, anything that serves to help towards completely exterminating them, is fine by them regardless of the consequences to other wildlife. The story about Pale Male is wonderful but what happens if there are no more pigeons and the rodent supply disappears during winter months as it does?

As far as having fatter, healthier pigeons, I think that will be a myth. They won't get healthier. Birds get sick no matter how few there might be. They have illnesses that come from the environment. They're forced to live in dirty places. Periodically, there are epidemics of illnesses like PMV and canker. Feeding bread is very dangerous to any bird and there is mostly bread and bread products on the streets. Under those circumstances, nothing is going to make them healthier so I don't believe that the birds will be better off.

Do you think pigeon netting would stop? Along with birth control, it might just reduce the numbers to a point where there isn't enough of a gene pool to have a healthy, vibrant species.

I don't think there are too many pigeons. I think rather, that there are too many people and they're constantly striving to reduce the wildlife populations any way they can so it's wrong to side with the majority. Extend this theory to all cities and the feral pigeon could become eradicated. Pigeons need cities because they most closely resemble the cliffs of Asia where they first came from. They don't live in the countryside. A concentrated effort of birth control in all cities could therefore completely wipe out this bird.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

> in the mean time, does anyone still think that feeding the feral is really a good idea ?


I hate to say it, but a lot of the ways people's lost pigeons are found is because someone was feeding the ferals. It helps to find them this way. Right now, I have another banded pigeon who joined the flock. It's not even a homer, someone's pet I guess. It either got away or they were trying to fly it in races. I don't believe this bird can find its way back home - it's not a homer.

This is the 6th banded pigeon I've come across during the time I visit the pigeons during my lunch hour. They don't go home. No matter how little the food is put out for them or I skip a day or two, they don't go home.

I just wish they'd try to set up feeding places for the birds where they can replace the eggs with plastic eggs and keep the population down that way. But that would mean taxpayer dollars and we all know Americans don't like that.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I also have to say this. My town never had feral pigeons before and I've been here for years. It seems they only started appearing when people nearby started flying homers. I think the ferals were wondering where all these homers were going and decided to follow them and that's how they ended up in my town. They probably were curious as to know where all these pigeons were going - so they joined in the flight. It was only then, that we started getting pigeons in my town.

And yes, people had bird feeders long before the homers and pigeons came to town. They also were messy with their trash, throwing it outside on the ground. But I never saw pigeons before until the homers arrived. I think the ferals just followed them during their races and ended up here.

I have no problems with pigeons. I love them - homers too, but unfortunately, many people don't.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

pigeonperson said:


> I'm opposed to any kind of control on wildlife. My opinion is to just leave them be. We don't know the impact the birth control might have on the birds' natural predators like hawks and falcons. *We don't know what these chemicals could do to the immunity systems of the pigeons or even to their genes. The chemicals used could have an adverse affect on them*


Indeed! The only other contraceptive I know of for pigeons is "Ornisteril". It is, or has been, used in Europe but was never licensed for use in the UK.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds in the UK stated 



> There is no scientific evidence that it is effective in reducing feral pigeon populations and there are doubts about the humaneness of its action on birds that eat it.


I read elsewhere (but don't recall where) that rather than acting as a contraceptive, Ornisteril's effect was just to cause a general debilitation in the birds.

Whatever the claims made about the humaneness of this latest product, I'd think there needs to be some kind of monitoring in the areas where it is to be piloted (but not by city authorities!)

I'm not entirely opposed to some kind of control, but more along the lines of the PICAS model - no chemicals! Personally, I think it might be in the interests of the pigeons if fewer broods were produced, given the hostility towards them and the incidence of winter starvation when there are large numbers.

Interesting idea about the effects on predators. I'd suggest that (a) it is designed to have nil effect if ingested 'second hand', or (b) that if it actually worked, then it might be no bad thing to keep predator numbers in line with the decrease in their pigeon prey, since they would likely find other species otherwise with a resulting imbalance.

Of course, I'd rather the hawks didn't prey on urban pigeons at all!

John


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2007)

John,
About the PICAS approach; 
If pigeons are confined to only certain places, an epidemic of any illness would have severe consequences to the compressed populations. Under ordinary circumstances, with the flocks spread out over a much wider area within the cities, there is a better chance for more birds to survive any kind of an outbreak.


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

Wow, this is quite a touchy subject. 

Food chain vs. Birthcontrol 

Natural vs. Artificial means of pigeon control 

Hawks vs. Purple pill

Which is more ethical?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Also,if we reduce the numbers of pigeons over a long period of time, the natural predators can become endangered...The story about Pale Male is wonderful but what happens if there are no more pigeons and the rodent supply disappears during winter months as it does?


So basically you see pigeons primarily as hawk food. 

Cynthia


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## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I'm still not as informed on this as I'd like to be, but from everything I've read on this so far, I don't really trust it. They say it has to be eaten every day to be effective, but it is not like human birth control. It does not prevent the egg, it keeps it from hatching. Does that mean that it is not fertile at all, or that it stops the bird from developing, or causes a defect in the shell? It seems to me that any bird even eating this a few times could have some bad repercussions. 

I agree it is more humane than lethal methods of pigeon control, but putting a chemical into a population of prey animals just sounds too risky, especially since I'm not sure at what stage it stops the baby bird from growing. Someone earlier asked if this could cause deformities in embryo if ingested only a few times, or maybe even once. That's what I'm wondering as well.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2007)

Not at all, Cynthia. I just want a balance of Nature in our cities without human interference. Granted, that's the ideal to be striven for and obviously, that's not happening any time soon.


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

pigeonperson said:


> Not at all, Cynthia. I just want a balance of Nature in our cities without human interference. Granted, that's the ideal to be striven for and obviously, that's not happening any time soon.



Yeah, human intervention can cause some kind of mutation...this mutation can be something deadly for the birds or us humans. 

Do you really trust that what they say is in the pill is the truth? Keep in mind, many people out there are ignorant and believe pigeons are the cause of modern disease. They also address them as flying rats. If they can find a way to eradicate them silently, they can and may. Do you want to put your trust on these kind of people? Just think about the economics in distributing this drug.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

pigeonperson said:


> John,
> About the PICAS approach;
> If pigeons are confined to only certain places, an epidemic of any illness would have severe consequences to the compressed populations. Under ordinary circumstances, with the flocks spread out over a much wider area within the cities, there is a better chance for more birds to survive any kind of an outbreak.


It is possible, but then pigeons are sociable birds. As they are frequently found nesting and roosting in fairly large aggregations and will feed together, I think the spread of sickness is an ever-present risk anyway. We have certainly seen periods when such things as canker or PMV seem to come in a number of birds within a short time.

Provided their 'quarters' were actually looked after (always the chance of a drop-off in volunteers, unfortunately) with some attention to hygiene, that _could_ counteract the potential added risk.

Unfortunately, I doubt that any significant number of cities could really be bothered with the PICAS idea - it involves thought and perserverance!

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I just want a balance of Nature in our cities without human interference


. 

There is something oxymoronic about the concept of preserving the "balance of nature" in cities...there is no balance, that was destroyed the moment man started to build and will continue to change as he continues to build. And there is nothing natural about pigeons in cities...they didn't go to live in cities because they were reminded of their ancient cliffs...Rock doves were taken into cities by man to be a source of food, particularly in times of seige.

Besides which, rescuing sick and injured birds *is* human interference. Was it Birdman that argued that we should leave sick, weak and injured birds to die or be eaten as it ensured the survival of the fittest?

I will continue to interfere , protect and preserve the lives of my beloved pigeons.

Cynthia

.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Here's some basic infromation about Ovocontrol (nicarbazin).

http://www.innolyticsllc.com/faq_geese.html


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Don't think for a minute if you stopped people from feeding pigeons that they're numbers will go down. What I think will happen is that they will go to other places for food and become pests there. These birds are clever. There are farms just about everywhere and no doubt, they make good use of them, probably in the mornings. From there on, after they've had their fill, they probably go somewhere else to hang out. When I go to see the ferals, I can see them traveling off to other areas from the mall where I visit them. They don't all live there and they can't always find water there. That means they travel to other places for food and water. The amount people usually give them (and this is not every day that they get fed) is small - too small for them to get so plump off of it. So they must be getting food somewhere else also.

There are farms where I live and plenty of open fields. They make the rounds.

I worry about the birth control because I don't know if they could OD on it. Some pigeons eat more than others, so who knows what could happen. I think they did try the birth control method in another country but some of them OD'd on it so they had to discontinue it.

Anyways, 

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST LEARN TO LOVE THEM?!

Sorry, I just lost it for a moment there.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pigeonperson said:


> I'm opposed to any kind of control on wildlife. My opinion is to just leave them be.


I may be one of the exceptions, but I *do* practice 'feral' birth control.

We have a few baskets with artificial flowers/ivy in them hanging from our patio cover. I have no problem with pigeons nesting in them (in fact, two couples have taken advantage of the situation). However, their eggs are replaced with 'wooden' ones. 

If they were really opposed to their eggs being taken, I'm sure they would have moved to another spot. As it is, the same couples have occupied the same baskets for nearly a year now.  

They kind of have a 'bed & breakfast' thing going on.  
They know they have a safe place to rest their feathers as well as having a good meal & fresh water daily.  

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

cyro51 said:


> I do. Please forgive me if I don't let them starve. I feed them barley which is nutritious and inhibits egg production.
> 
> Cynthia



Hello Cynthia,

I admire your love and admiration of this bird which is called "The Bird of Peace"....I am not sure I could disagree with you, except that if given a chance, and the poor bird was starving or at least damn hungry...or even just a little, I would feed him and let all the theory's of "Control" be damned.
Might even treat him (under a Dr's. care... ....) for other things too. 

I was not put here on this earth to "Control" the pigeon population, but to expand it !!! And part of my challenge is not to become to prideful in any inroads that I may have contributed to in this regard. 

Perhaps we must all judge our own consciences, as to the value of these lives that has been entrusted to us, for their care. I am not going to take issue with where that life of a pigeon falls onto anyone's value scale, if I can help it.

There are deeply and earnestly felt differences on many of these complex issues. My personal view on any number of issue's may change over time to reflect new knowledge or understanding. 

For instance, recently a friend reported losing most of his birds due to an auto accident that his friend was in. Where was my real concern or interest....for real ?....how many SFL USA birds survived !? Did the drunk who hit the car live or die ? Don't know...don't care.....there are times....where I think the solution is to move the people out of the city's and leave the pigeons there...you do it one building and house at a time...as soon as one pigeon lands on a building...it becomes a National Pigeon Habitat....no humans within 500 meters...or something...

Problem is many of our readers our human... so everyone ends up doing what everyone else wants. In time...the extermination business will make big money preventing the births of millions of pigeons...while at the same time killing them across the street....

So I think for me....that is how I see it...I won't live to see the long term affects on the enviroment of this particular product, but the general decline in the value of life...see that every day on the streets ..... .....to me...just another outward sign of the times I suppose, and for me....please excuse me if I don't applaud those who wish to place yet another nail into the coffin of the pigeon.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

cyro51 said:


> What exactly is your real view? ......
> 
> What baffles me is why you are so eloquent about arguing about humane control and yet are usually silent on threads about lethal control.
> 
> Cynthia



I guess because we have already lost that battle. The Mourning Dove has more protection in our Commonwealth because it is considered a "game bird" and thus is shot and eaten. But there is a limit as to how many, and when you can kill them. The poor feral pigeon .....you can shoot as many, and as often as you like. It is has no legal protection.

I must regulate my energy level and not lose focus of what I want to achieve. If you want to fight for the right to have your exterminator come to your home and office and set out bait trays, I am powerless to stop you.

However I could release many more into the wild then you could prevent with this toxic stuff that you want to feed your feral pigeon population....so maybe we cancel each other out ?...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> guess because we have already lost that battle. The Mourning Dove has more protection in our Commonwealth because it is considered a "game bird" and thus is shot and eaten. But there is a limit as to how many, and when you can kill them. The poor feral pigeon .....you can shoot as many, and as often as you like. It is has no legal protection.
> 
> I must regulate my energy level and not lose focus of what I want to achieve. If you want to fight for the right to have your exterminator come to your home and office and set out bait trays, I am powerless to stop you.


What a very peculiar thing to say!  

Thank goodness some of our US members are prepared to put up a fight and do something practical for pigeons that are in immediate danger of extermination . 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21772&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I
> I must regulate my energy level and not lose focus of what I want to achieve. If you want to fight for the right to have your exterminator come to your home and office and set out bait trays, I am powerless to stop you.
> 
> However I could release many more into the wild then you could prevent with this toxic stuff that you want to feed your feral pigeon population....so maybe we cancel each other out ?...


So who among us has said they WANT to administer this contraceptive product to pigeons?

Feeding a high proportion of barley, or using dummy eggs can hardly be likened to wanting to feed birds with some chemical which may have unforseen and detrimental effects, by any stretch of the imagination!

John


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