# I am still having trouble with my main two males fighting?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Baby and Gayser seem to continually fight. Gayser has started to fly more recently after a long recovery from PMV, but all that time on the ground means he has a weight advantage over Baby. Baby does fight back, but after some particularly long struggles I think Baby has given up trying to beat Gayser, and Gayser seems to be always backing Baby into the corner where his mate is with her eggs. Baby will make a stand at his nest, but I get the feeling he does not want to be fighting Gayser all the time. Gayser has his own mate and they are picking a new nesting site at the moment, and I think he would take Baby's nesting site if he could.

Things have been a bit boring for the pigeons lately, normally I turn about half my room into a playground with all sorts of boxes and slides for them to investigate, but because the council may come back and try to inspect the place again, for the time being I have had to limit the space they take up and the number of boxes they have. It must be getting boring for the pigeons but there is nothing I can do about the inspections until my solicitor sorts it out.

Almost every time that Baby comes to the floor to eat or to look at the nest, Gayser charges over to him and tries to have a fight. I know they don't really hurt each other but I do not think Baby wants this continuous fighting. I cannot make a safe spot for Baby to eat and drink any more because Gayser is able to fly much better now.

I am wondering if I should just let them get on with it, and not worry so much about if Baby is getting pushed around a bit, or if I should maybe put Gayser in the cage for periods of time until he gets the message that I do not want him to fight all the time. Its the only thing I can think to do that is a punishment that is not horrible to him.

If anyone else has had this problem and has any ideas about how to solve it, or if anyone has advice in general, I would be grateful as I am not sure what to do for the best.

Thank you.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

It really is a pity, the other male, Baby, has started to stay on the top curtain rail except to come down once a day to give his mate Blondie a break on the nest. I think he has had enough of Gaysers constant bullying.

I feel I need to try and teach Gayser to calm down, but I do not want to do anything cruel to him obviously. The top bar is the only area where he cannot fly to now, but I feel in time he will even learn to fly up there, and then there will be no where for Baby to go for a break.

I am thinking of putting Gayser in the cage by himself for a short time every time he shows signs of being over aggressive. What do people think. Will this work if I back it up with warnings before resorting to the final punishment. It must be miserable for Baby to be sitting up on that curtain rail for long periods of time.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't allow one of my birds to bully another. Why not lock him up for half the day, and allow the other freedom to live in peace. then let him out? That or cage him away from the other birds for a week or so. Often when he is then returned to be with the others, his rank has changed and he might be nicer. Then watch him and if he bullies the other one, stop him and remove him to another area of the room.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been putting him in the passage for a couple of hours when I see him fighting, and repeating the phrase "no fighting" when I do this. I only had to do it for a couple of days and he seems to have understood. I don't want to be too harsh as mild squabbling is part of their social interaction, but Baby, the second in the pecking order, does not have to spend all his time on the curtain rail all the time now. Lets hope it lasts.

I would like to get to the bottom of it, why he has suddenly started picking on the others so much. I think it is mainly because I have not been able to build the playground for them that I used to have in case the council try to carry out another inspection. I have to be able to clean the place up quickly so they have nothing to complain about. If my solicitor gives me the all clear I will rebuild the playground.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I am still having trouble with my two males fighting. It seemed like "Baby" was coming off the worst in these fights and "Gayser" was often standing close to Babt's nest and waiting for him to try and come out to feed. Every time I saw Gayser attack Baby in this way I would put him outside in the hall for a while. This was effective and started to cut down the number of attacks.

The problem is although I can now control Gayser to some extent, and Baby manages to get his food in the main, Baby also does silly things that I don't understand. Because "Gerty"(who is Gaysers mate and sitting the eggs) would seek Gaysers help if Baby was on the feeding bowl that she wanted, I put a bowl right inside Gerty and Gaysers box so they had a bowl to themselves. There are several other food bowls about in an attempt to avoid squabbling, but Baby keeps trying to go insider Gaysers box to feed from his bowl. Obviously this provokes an attack from Gayser and I cannot tell him off for protecting his own territory. I don't understand why he does this, I thought Baby was being oppressed by Gaysers constant attacks, but if he provokes an attack by going in Gaysers box, he is obviously not as oppressed as I thought he was?

Does anyone know what is going on between these two. I must admit Gayser is an aggressive bird, but I feel this was brought on a bit by his inability to follow the birds up to the high curtain rail because of his old PMV problems. I feel a bit off just allowing Gayer to keep up his attacks on Baby, but if baby is provoking him what can I do?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I can't see you're set up..but if you have a pair they really should be seperate from the single birds..esp other cocks. no need to over think it, it is a simple fix..I would think?


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## anhmytran (Jan 5, 2013)

The problem is your loft. It is too narrow for many birds. You do not have each couple a private room for their nest.
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In nature, pigeons are property protecting. It means that all cocks fight to death to defend their nests against other cocks. It also means that every cock is the winner in its nest area no matter how big and how powerful the intruder cock is. The hens fight, too, against other cock, especially when her nest have eggs or young lings.
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To solve the problem, just make a private room for each pair in your loft. You have 2 cocks, and each cock has its own hen. Then, make 2 rooms and put each nest in each room. The boundary should be easy to understand, such as a plate of wood or stone to block one room from another room. Each room should have its own entrance (and also exit) far away from one another.
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Out side the private areas, let them bully one another, until their society establishes a ranking system. At that point, there is no bullying any more. They know to keep distance from one another. Pigeons are peaceful animals. They would not fight unnecessarily.
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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Your answer makes a lot of sense anhmytran, but I am in an awkward position at the moment. I agree there would be more peace if I was able to clearly give each cock a clear area, but the trouble the council is causing me means I am having to keep them in a smaller space than usual so I can keep the area clean in case they try to spring an inspection on me. I hope this will be over soon and I will be able to build the onld pens that I had for them and the fighting will stop. I hope my solicitor is going to stop the council bullying me soon.


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## TylerBro (Mar 14, 2011)

i would Hobble the older cock it seams he is the aggressor in the fights.

one snap band on each leg then a small string just enough for him to stand at normal standing ... this will cause him to not be able to spread his legs to gain pushing power over the smaller bird ...


i would take some glue and measure the string to length and glue it in place so it would not come off then put it on the bird once its nice and dry ....


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Ah I have heard this before, thank you for reminding me. What is a Snapband? Do you mean just wrap an elastic band round his leg? would this not hinder blood flow. How would you then keep the string on so it does not drop off if it has some slack in it?

I have actually noticed that when I send the dominant male outside, the male and female of the other pair seem to go over and abuse his feeding bowl and box, and the female sitting the eggs is left to try and fight them off, so I let him back in. It does seem as if its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. The thing that makes me want to stop this happening is occasionally the stronger male manages to get hold of the other male by the mouth and he squeals in pain. I do not want this sort of thing going on in here, there is no need for this much violence, they are not in the wild.


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## TylerBro (Mar 14, 2011)

Pm me ur address .. are they homers or rollers? Ill send u a old hobble i have


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm afraid they are rescued ferals. The females are Rollers that I took from someone who said they had crashed once too often and could no longer perform. I have a feeling the males have a bit of a violent streak in them because they have come from a rough outside life. Neither of the males can fly very well because they have both had PMV and have not fully recovered.

I would be happy if you can send a description of how to construct a "Hobble". Have you noticed that I am in the UK, I do not want to put you to any expense?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moving to a place you can keep pigeons with the right space sounds like something to think about if you want to keep pigeons. The birds now have to be hobbled because there is no room.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Remember this is only a temporary situation brought about by the council constantly threatening me, so I have had to confine the area the pigeons are in for a while so I can be ready for any inspection the council tries to spring on me.

After this whole situation is over, my brother has been showing me how he can make a large walk in cage in my room that will allow plenty of room for the pigeons and I will be able to make a good playground for them. I hoping this situation will be resolved soon. Solicitors tend to play on the safe side of things and they have asked me to keep the place exceptionally tidy just in case they do try to spring an inspection on me.


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## TylerBro (Mar 14, 2011)

No i didnt notice .. get online and find a snap band its a band that will go on a adult bird .. and i would glue the string so it wouldent come off


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have used an elastic band and formed a loop round the top of both legs, it is just big enough that he can walk along slightly limited. He has gone very quiet and is giving me very forlorn looks which is making me feel really guilty. I will take it off later this afternoon to see if he has understood. He was slowly starting to understand when I was putting him outside the door after each time I saw him get hold of "Baby" badly, but he would do it again after a time. Maybe he will dislike this so much that he may get the message better. I can't help feeling guilty though. Bloody council. If it turns out they are wrong in what they have done to me I am going to claim damages and buy the pigeons some nice presents.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have used the elastic band, but I removed it overnight and he started bullying again in the morning, so I have been forced to replace it. He is able to walk, like you said, but he is limited in how far apart he can spread his legs.

I hate doing this, I feel really guilty, he claims a food bowl and tries to frighten the others away from it. In the meantime he keeps looking at me with the hope I am going to remove the band. I will remove it tonight but he must learn to stop biting the others, especially "Baby" who does not seem to be feeling well.


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## anhmytran (Jan 5, 2013)

I have never done it. However, it is good to know if it is a good idea.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Actually I am not so sure. I put it on for a couple of hours and took it off again, but the fighting started again almost straight away. I left it on over night and Gayser has still not been able to stand up properly. Its too risky to me, I did not mean to hurt him like that. No wonder he was looking at me in that way, he must have been in pain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't do that to a bird. I just separate them. Let them out again when I'm there to monitor things. If I have a bully, removing him from the others for a while usually works. I'm doing that now with a young one who has turned into _the demon seed_. He is really aggressive with his parents, and fighting with them and throwing them out of their own nest box. He thinks he's going to take it over. He is actually vicious and he's only a few months old. Never seen that before. Took him out for a few days, returned him, and he went right for them. His Mom is a scrapper, and I thought they would kill each other, but Dad is a Wuss and doesn't help much. He's back in the house in a cage. Eventually I'll try him out in the loft again. But separating usually works pretty well. Some just take longer than others.


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

This could take some time to work.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes I am not going to risk the elastic band again, poor sod I did not mean to do that to him. It took him about 4 hours before he was able to use his legs properly again. I put him on my lap and massaged his legs for a bit and that seemed to help. Because his legs were still warm I thought it was ok, but the elastic must have been pressing on a nerve or something.
I don't understand why Baby seems to tease Gayser though, he obviously does not like it when Gayser chases him and bites him, so why does he go over to his box as if to tease him. Anyway, I have gone back to putting him outside for periods of time if he gets nasty.

I have noticed that the birds born outside in the feral flocks seem to have a more violent gene in them, whereas the birds that have been born inside and have never been hungry do not fair well against the feral chicks that I rescue.


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