# Tailess?



## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

I had a feral trap into my breeding loft a couple weeks ago that was missing all of its tail feathers. I put it in an isolation pen to let the feathers grow back. In this two weeks there are no stubs or any sign that i can see or feel of new feather growth. Today there is another feral that trapped in my breeding loft with the same condition. No tail feathers. Could this just be a coinsidence and the feathers will grow back? Ive read of rumpless but havent seen anything on tailess.


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

Picture2..


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

Both birds look exactly the same besides the other one having white flights


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

The other bird also has the identical longer feather on the right of the rump


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## JasoninMN (Nov 5, 2005)

I would keep them and see if they tail regrows. If it doesn't I would create a "rumpless" breed of pigeons if the trait can be passed on.


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

The one looks like a young bird. The tail feathers some times take a lot longer to come in. Also depends on the molt during the time of the year. They could have been hawk attacks and lucky to loose only there tails. Spread the feathers back and see if you can find any empty feather sockets in there that would show of previous feather growth.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

logangrmnr said:


> The one looks like a young bird. The tail feathers some times take a lot longer to come in. Also depends on the molt during the time of the year. They could have been hawk attacks and lucky to loose only there tails. Spread the feathers back and see if you can find any empty feather sockets in there that would show of previous feather growth.


I agree, probably just tail feather losses due to predators. Tail feathers can take some time to grow back. I have bred archangels, which in my opinion have very loose tails. The slightest accidental mishandling of my birds always ended in a bird without a tail, sometimes for as long as 8 or 9 weeks. On the other hand, it is _VERY_ hard to pull a tail feather from a homer.

From a biological perspective, the chances of a tailless gene surviving in a feral population's gene pool for long is rather slim, since birds permanently without tails are at somewhat of a permanent disadvantage as far as flight is concerned. On the other hand ferals with very loose tail feathers have a slight advantage in that the predator might just end up with the tail while the bird escapes. Archangels (and most of the field pigeons, I assume) originated as free ranging birds, and as a result still have these genes for loose tails.


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

I have examined both birds to the best of my ability and i can not find anything that would lead me to believe they had a tail. I must admit that im not exactly sure what im looking for though as i havent handled any birds that have had the whole tail missing. When the first one trapped i thought nothing of it besides a lucky feral that had a narrow escape. But when the second one trapped i began to at least consider it more than a coincidense. Ive had homers come in with a few tail feathers missing but never the entire tail. Im thinking if these birds are indeed tailless they were hatched nearby and came into my loft in desperation, both birds appear to be young birds and are in horrible condition. Both i assume would have been dead within a few days of either starvation or predator. Thats very interesting information about the loose tails rudolph. I will keep both of these birds awhile and see if tails develop. Ive had the first one for two weeks so in another two weeks i would imagine there would be some noticeable growth


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi Cole, In the book "Genetics of Pigeons" by Lester Paul Gibson on page 97 there is a reference to a condishion called "baby doll" here is the quote "Flightless and tailess mutants know as " baby doll" have appeared in certain lines of Fantails, indian Fantails,in a few rollers ,and even ina few homers little is know about these birds because they do not reproduce. These baby dolls mutants many times have one parent Dominant Opal but that is not always the case.Usually the bird are light beige in color but again that is not always; several have been steely gray. They all have plumage that is undeveloped as feathers especially wings and tail.Also reported from Russian Tumblers by Bernard LEHMAN IN 1992-94 " * GEORGE


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

george simon said:


> *Hi Cole, In the book "Genetics of Pigeons" by Lester Paul Gibson on page 97 there is a reference to a condishion called "baby doll" here is the quote "Flightless and tailess mutants know as " baby doll" have appeared in certain lines of Fantails, indian Fantails,in a few rollers ,and even ina few homers little is know about these birds because they do not reproduce. These baby dolls mutants many times have one parent Dominant Opal but that is not always the case.Usually the bird are light beige in color but again that is not always; several have been steely gray. They all have plumage that is undeveloped as feathers especially wings and tail.Also reported from Russian Tumblers by Bernard LEHMAN IN 1992-94 " * GEORGE


I've also thought of that, but in this case the flights are completely normal. It would be very interesting if these ferals' tailllessness was genetic. Think of the new breeds that could be created  Imagine a tailless maltese (or modena) they would look so much like chickens!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

There is a gene in doves and chickens that makes them rumpless (tailless). I'm pretty sure I have heard of it in pigeons too but I'm not certain. Will have to ask around. Feral flocks have a very good chance of being related and thus recessive traits can pop up. But having no tail, not even stubs, can be very hard on the bird in flight and I don't see them lasting very long on their own. I have had birds get their tails completely pulled out by hawks quite a few times but never paid attention to how long it took for the feathers to start coming in.


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## loonecho (Feb 25, 2010)

*I am raising a tailless Homer right now.*

Interestingly, I have a young Recessive Red Homer right now that is tailless. Sire and Dam are unrelated. Sire is a RR Meulemann. Dam is 1/2 Jannsen and 1/2 Recessive Yellow Trenton. The recessive red in this young bird is grizzled and very soft feathered. Her nestmate is a Blue T-pattern with a normal tail. Third set of young out of this pair. This is the first tail-less. I will try to get some pictures posted and let you know if the tail ever develops. Right now, there is no sign of tail feathers. No pins or stubs or anything like that. Flights are developing normally. I am hand feeding this bird as she was smaller and having a difficult time competing for food from the parents. Otherwise seems healthy and alert.

Jim


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