# how to breed self white pigeons by using diffrent colour pigeons??



## pigeonlover007 (Jul 11, 2013)

other then white breeding pairs wat other colours can someone use to give selfwhite chiks?!


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## pigeonlover007 (Jul 11, 2013)

pleeeez pigeon lovers and expertise can u help..i want to know wat other clours give self white chiks these are some colours silver brown cream silverwithpurplel head etc


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## likebirds (Oct 22, 2012)

I don't think you can breed a white out of colored birds unless there was a white grandparent bird somewhere along the way. Even then it would be difficult.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

you must have a bird that carries the recessive white gene. At least one of the parents carry it. preferable if the cock bird is the carrier because it will makes things easier. This method can still get you some white offspring. But you have to select and crossbreed your birds. 

In order to get pure white birds, 2 recessive white hast to be present. That saying that each parents carrying the white genes and passes the rec. white gene down to the offspring.
Any color birds that doesnt have the white gene will *NEVER* produce a white offspring. Athough some color birds can carry the rec.white gene internally but doesnt show it. 


Oh the other method is the buy two white birds and breed them. There you go.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

likebirds - where do you get this info?

Any bird can carry recessive white if one of its parents carried the gene. It is not exclusive to birds that had white grandparents.

Recessive white turns any coloured bird white, It is recessive so needs to be in two doses in a bird to show, Therefore, two coloured birds, carrying recessive white paired together will produce 1:4 on average all white young.

You can use pied but that's difficult and requires a lot of selection

you can also put two doses of grizzle on an ash red birds and through selection can obtain white birds with coloured eyes.

It is not difficult to use recessive white to make whites, The only thing is you need to know which birds carry the gene, Any two birds bred down from a white bird will produce whites if paired to each other in that same ratio as above 1:4.

likebirds - genetics is a science using ratios and predictions based on genetic rules discovered years ago and does provide simple ways to make what could be seen as a difficult gene easy to work with.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> you must have a bird that carries the recessive white gene. At least one of the parents carry it. *preferable if the cock bird is the carrier because it makes things easier*. In order to get pure white birds, 2 recessive white hast to be present. That saying that each parents carrying the white genes and passes the rec. white gene down to the offspring.
> Any color birds that doesnt have the white gene will *NEVER* produce a white offspring. *Athough some color birds can carry the rec.white gene internally but doesnt show it*.
> 
> But like Likebirds said that if nay the grandparent is a rec. white bird, there is still a chance it will produce a white offspring when pair with another bird that carry the rec. white gene. *but the chance of getting a white offspring is VERY VERY LOW.*
> ...




sevensouls, I think its probably best if you study a wee bit more before giving definitive advice,

The statements In bold are simply wrong.

Firstly, having a hen or cock is exactly the same, neither is easier as recessive white is not sex linked

All colour birds that have one dose of recessive white are het for the gene, therefore, all birds not just some that carry the gene have it hidden internally but it goes back to one knowing there birds genetics prior to breeding

the chance of a bird from a recessive white grandparent having the gene is 1:4, you have stated it is a very very low chance, I would put 1:4 as reasonably probable in all honesty. I know you have learnt heaps and are doing well but this advice would be incredibly confusing for someone trying to learn, It is simple, if two birds carry the gene they will produce 1:4 white young, regardless of whether you started with a cock or hen and regardless of what the grandparents were.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> sevensouls, I think its probably best if you study a wee bit more before giving definitive advice,
> 
> The statements In bold are simply wrong.
> 
> ...


_But like Likebirds said that if nay the grandparent is a rec. white bird, there is still a chance it will produce a white offspring when pair with another bird that carry the rec. white gene. but the chance of getting a white offspring is VERY VERY LOW. _
****i was deleting this.

Yes agree. But i just prefer cock bird over a hen. 
(well maybe i shall elaborate)
first of all, pigeonlover007 dont any rec.white birds or know the background of his birds. Thats why he ask "how to get white babies from *non-white parents?*". My advice is saying that if a color bird carry the white gene internally and not expressing on the outside; i would preferably want the cock bird to be the carrier and not the hen(maybe his birds can be sex-linking, who knows?).


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> _But like Likebirds said that if nay the grandparent is a rec. white bird, there is still a chance it will produce a white offspring when pair with another bird that carry the rec. white gene. but the chance of getting a white offspring is VERY VERY LOW. _
> ****i was deleting this.
> 
> Yes agree. But i just prefer cock bird over a hen.
> ...


do you just prefer a cock bird in general, or specifically for recessive white breedings?

what do you mean? (maybe his birds can be sex-linking, who knows?)


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

wait, white is not a color right?

okay just done messing around with the color chart and yes, NZ_pigeon is correct that neither cock or hen that carry white will do.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

White is not sex linked if that's what you are getting at, Do you mean, White is not one of the 3 main base colours?, In that case, you would be correct.

White is an autosomal recessive gene, Not a sex linked recessive gene.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> wait, white is not a color right?
> 
> okay just done messing around with the color chart and yes, NZ_pigeon is correct that *neither* cock or hen that carry white will do.


do you mean either? The only colour or modifier groups that are sex linked are

base colour
dilution
almond series and reduced and rubella

so aside from the modifiers in this group you need to forget about the cocks and hens having more or less of an importance than each other.
grizzzle, spread, opal, bronze, dirty, recessive white, rec red and heaps of other modifiers can be passed from cock to hen and hen to cock in the same fashion regardless of the pairing if that makes sense.


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## likebirds (Oct 22, 2012)

NZ, Read the first 3 words in my post. Sorry that I overstepped my bountries!


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## pigeonlover007 (Jul 11, 2013)

thanks everyone i bought archangels white wings red body


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> do you mean either? The only colour or modifier groups that are sex linked are
> 
> base colour
> dilution
> ...


Yes yes. That makes sense. thanks.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

*Moving Post to here! : )*

It might take some time... for e.g. one of my pairs (#1) are not fully white, the male in fact is more like a muddy mutt color consisting of brown+grey+white. Female is mostly white but splashed with checkered grey a little on top of her wings and her tail is a normal grey kind of color. For them to produce a white colored pigeon it is 2/7. Meaning that they will only have maybe one or two pairs of young that are fully white in after every 3rd egg laying and raising. The young are not pure white though, b/c most of them develop having a lighter colored iris and black tips on their beaks. Sometimes they have a line of grey at the tip of their tails. 

I have had a time where I had a pair (#2) that the females phenotype (physical) looks was all white and the male was checkered deep dark grey, yet 5/7 times their young where a red/brown ash. The male from the pair came from a pied checkered male and a pied female. The female from the pair; I do not remember where she came from, but she prob came from parents that had red ash color genetics. I rarely see any young of this pair being grey checkered pied, only one so far after 7 rears of hatching. Though a male (ash red) produced from pair #2 hatched eggs with a pied (brown+white+red) female and had about a ratio of 2:5 young being blue checkered. 

I believe NZ_pigeon corrected me, the first pair I was describing are Pied. 

The male of that pair was fathered from a blue bar male and a black-white pied female. 

Do not remember the females ancestry, its been like 6-7 years already. 

It is amazing how this pair has had such a diverse color of young. It is something new every time their eggs hatch.


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## pigeonlover007 (Jul 11, 2013)

no one bird was grey with brown bar and female full grey n chiks full white so is it because the birds linage there was white or mixing these colours come white like mottles if u breed redmottles with yellow mottles u gt self yellows i heard so is this colour the mixture of the birds i was talkin about to self whites or the white came from the linage ...everyone thanks fr the info really appreciate all the expert advices


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

pigeonlover007 said:


> no one bird was grey with brown bar and female full grey n chiks full white so is it because the birds linage there was white or mixing these colours come white like mottles if u breed redmottles with yellow mottles u gt self yellows i heard so is this colour the mixture of the birds i was talkin about to self whites or the white came from the linage ...everyone thanks fr the info really appreciate all the expert advices


I am no where close to an expert, but If you were talking to me about the color pairing and outcomes in your first part of your latest post... then just to keep a record of my pigeons, I have had a grey brown bar pigeon... some for some weird reason later in life (3-4 years) later slowly changed into a darker blue bar. Not sure how this is happening, but I think with my pigeons; they might be so mixed in colors that things like this might happen after molting and regrowing new feathers.

The initial cock that I was describing about (pair #1) in my last post molts his tail feathers around late summer I believe, but regrows a different colored tail feather. When I raised him from a 2 week old pigeon (not sure what to call baby pigeons); from what I remember, most of his tail feathers where white with a dash sprinkle of grey on them when he matured. Now (6 years later) most of his tail feathers are covered with grey lineage and five of the tail feathers are all white. Who knows what combination of tail feathers will he grow after this next molting for the winter?

I sort of did not understand the rest of your post, it was a bit confusing... But I hope my description helps a little bit. If it did not, um... sorry.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Doig said:


> It might take some time... for e.g. one of my pairs (#1) are not fully white, the male in fact is more like a muddy mutt color consisting of brown+grey+white. Female is mostly white but splashed with checkered grey a little on top of her wings and her tail is a normal grey kind of color. For them to produce a white colored pigeon it is 2/7. Meaning that they will only have maybe one or two pairs of young that are fully white in after every 3rd egg laying and raising. The young are not pure white though, b/c most of them develop having a lighter colored iris and black tips on their beaks. Sometimes they have a line of grey at the tip of their tails.
> 
> I have had a time where I had a pair (#2) that the females phenotype (physical) looks was all white and the male was checkered deep dark grey, yet 5/7 times their young where a red/brown ash. The male from the pair came from a pied checkered male and a pied female. The female from the pair; I do not remember where she came from, but she prob came from parents that had red ash color genetics. I rarely see any young of this pair being grey checkered pied, only one so far after 7 rears of hatching. Though a male (ash red) produced from pair #2 hatched eggs with a pied (brown+white+red) female and had about a ratio of 2:5 young being blue checkered.
> 
> ...


your #1 pair may carry the rec.white gene if they produce white babies I assume that the cock may be grizzle carrying rec.white and the hen is probably a splash carrying rec.white too. That how you end up with white babies.

Your #2 pair is probably sex-linking. Since the cock is a blue check which probably a blue base color and your white hen may in fact is a red base. Giving you all cock offspring ash red and all hen offspring blue. 

NZ_pigeon correct this if im wrong.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

sev3ns0uls said:


> your #1 pair may carry the rec.white gene if they produce white babies I assume that the cock may be grizzle carrying rec.white and the hen is probably a splash carrying rec.white too. That how you end up with white babies.
> 
> Your #2 pair is probably sex-linking. Since the cock is a blue check which probably a blue base color and your white hen may in fact is a red base. Giving you all cock offspring ash red and all hen offspring blue.
> 
> NZ_pigeon correct this if im wrong.


Sounds correct to me! Thanks for making this into simpler terms... XD 

The #1 pair cock is not that grizzle, but I would assume Grizzle would match him best. 

: )


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

If not grizzle then maybe pie or splash.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

sev3ns0uls said:


> If not grizzle then maybe pie or splash.


mmmhmmm. :?)


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Doig said:


> mmmhmmm. :?)


do you have picture?

also pair #1 offspring. You said they are white but do you mean they are rec. white? Because some grizzle can be almost white but they have some fleck that made them grizzle and not rec. white.


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## mysstic (Dec 16, 2011)

likebirds said:


> I don't think you can breed a white out of colored birds unless there was a white grandparent bird somewhere along the way. Even then it would be difficult.


Two offsprings of my black & white male & brown & white fem. came out - one pure white, the other one black & white. (the one which was taken by the hawk :-( /
We were very surprised to have a pure white. She's very pretty. In my album there should be some pictures. 

The brown & white now paired up with the homer.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

sev3ns0uls said:


> do you have picture?
> 
> also pair #1 offspring. You said they are white but do you mean they are rec. white? Because some grizzle can be almost white but they have some fleck that made them grizzle and not rec. white.


pigeons just took a bath, dried a bit...

Pair #1: Male on the left and female on the right.


















Pair #1 Offspring:


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

Another pigeon, but not from pair #1: From a black and pie

Another White pigeon, not fully white:


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

just to let you know, all of them are grizzle.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

sev3ns0uls said:


> just to let you know, all of them are grizzle.


Nice, No wonder one of their batch of youngsters long time ago was a blue-bar. I just love how the mixture in color can be so diverse. !!! It is awesome! Though with my pair it is hard to pinpoint what color babies will be next. Their young one in the nest is also the same white grizzle as well. Can not wait to see how it will look like when fully fledged. 

Though, have any of you pigeon breeders ever experienced a pigeon color or pattern change a bit after molting??? My #1 pair male changed tail colors after about he was 1 years old. Has been that tail color ever since, before it was all white with one or two grizzled tail feathers. Now it is mostly grizzled and one white tail feather.


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## Doubleoo6 (Sep 19, 2021)

sev3ns0uls said:


> you must have a bird that carries the recessive white gene. At least one of the parents carry it. preferable if the cock bird is the carrier because it will makes things easier. This method can still get you some white offspring. But you have to select and crossbreed your birds.
> 
> In order to get pure white birds, 2 recessive white hast to be present. That saying that each parents carrying the white genes and passes the rec. white gene down to the offspring.
> Any color birds that doesnt have the white gene will *NEVER* produce a white offspring. Athough some color birds can carry the rec.white gene internally but doesnt show it.
> ...


Hi im yoosuf from srilanka I just want to know will i get the same color of male if I breed that male with an pure white female? Thank you.


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