# Sick Diamond dove



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Tried posting this earlier, only to find PT was shut down for me.
So let's try this again....

I noticed today one of my diamond doves is seriously sick. Here 
lately it has looked fine, just thought it was a little sluggish 
from the heat. Didn't look sick at all.
But now, the poor thing is motionless, fluffed up, eyes practically 
glued shut, PLUS it's vent was covered in droppings. With a lot of 
feather cutting, pulling, and warm water, I finally got it all off. 
At least he had enough energy to show he definitely wasn't happy 
about me 'operating' on him. Diamond doves are sooo small and 
fragile...I have a feeling there isn't much I can do. But I want to 
try!  I don't know what exactly is wrong. He just has the basic 
signs of sickness. Gone light and won't eat/drink, and if it helps, 
his droppings are light green/white and pasty...Or at least that's 
what I had to pull off of him. So far he hasn't done anything to 
tell what they look like now.
Can anyone please give me some advice on what to do? I have small 
seeds I tried to pop in his mouth. Not the easiest thing when the 
beak is that small!


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Becky*

I just brought a pigeon back from a similar problem with Pepto Bismol. It's worth a try if you ask me. I used to raise Diamond Doves too but I actually can't remember any of them ever getting sick. Doesn't matter though, they are just very small members of the pigeon family.

I give pigeons one fourth of a Pepto Bismol tablet and the pigeons that I have would mostly be in the 12 to 14 ounce range. What does a Diamond Dove weigh? Maybe 2 or 3 ounces? At that rate, a tiny chip or fourth of a fourth. I'm pretty sure that alittle more wouldn't hurt as I always just break them by hand and some pieces are more like a third or so and some less. This stuff is very safe and seems to restore many gut problems.

I watched an older cock bird go from ruffled and listless to eating and defending himself in a couple of days. He was very sick and going light and now about 2 weeks later, he seems perfectly normal and is setting his turn on new eggs. It can't hurt to try this.

I don't know what your bird has been exposed to but it might just be a simple digestive system imbalance and the Pepto seems to work wonders for many of these that I see many people treating with much stronger meds, some with success and some not. If your other birds are doing fine and this one is just ill, I'd try it and see how it goes. If you have other sick birds and are concerned with a disease, you may need to look at additional treatment but the Pepto won't hurt anyway.

I actually have a couple of other pigeons that I'm giving the Pepto to as I'm trying to stimulate their appetites. It's working so far but that's another story and I'll write more about it when I have more to report.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Becky, You said the bird is sluggish from the heat...is it inside and could it be dehydrated?
The poops sound like they could be starvation poops and so it probably hasn't been eating. I would follow hydrating procedure and after hydrated I would hand feed.
You could use a needle nose syringe and put drops of formula at he side of the beak, not unsimilar to the way I recently fed the mice.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Tried posting this earlier, only to find PT was shut down for me.
> So let's try this again....
> 
> I noticed today one of my diamond doves is seriously sick. Here
> ...




Hi M-of-E, 



If the soiled Vent area showed 'yellow-ish' Urates, it c-o-u-l-d be a Canker issue.


These guys are SO 'tiny' I know, so any medicine of course will have doseages calculated by the Patient's weight.


If nothing else, see if you can make sure he is hydrated, 'Electrolytes' ideally...kept 'warm' and out of any drafts, and, consider to treat for Canker, pending more definitive diagnosis, if one is to be had.


Can you 'tube-feed' him?

If so, Canker Meds could be adminstered in a dissolved form, whether nor not along with a thin nutrient formula.


And, or, have you a Vet who could have a look to see if this sees to be a Cankcer issue?

Is there anything ewlse you could describe about the Poops or anything else?


Do you have any Antibiotics on hand? ( If so, what are they?) 



I would definitely hydrate "now", and at least condier seriously to begin Canker meds now if possible, pending any Vet visits to-morrow.


Make haste if you can, I do not think he sounds like he has much leeway remaining.


Phil
l v


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Mary, I'm so sorry your diamond dove is sick. Is there any chance your parents could help you get it to an avian vet?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Definitely if you can get some fluids into him with a syringe, that would help. But also, I think it's a good idea to get him to a vet ASAP. They can give an examination and figure out what treatment is needed.

When you are dealing with little species, they can be a bit fragile and not as robust as a bird twice it's size, so they need care quickly.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Becky, sorry to read about this. Do you know how old this dove is? I don't think it would hurt to try the pepto-bismol in the amount Bill suggested. Another thing you might try is putting a little plain yogurt in his mouth. That is also good for digestive complaints.

I don't know too much about Diamond Doves but could it be a female and egg bound. Also, I agree with Charis that he needs some food to help fight whatever is going on.

I sure hope he gets better soon.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

*Good news, he's still hanging in there!*

He was outside, which we've had temps around 100 lately. He was in a cage in our dove 'loft'. It's cooler in there than outside. I suppose it was possible he got a bit dehydrated because when I came home, I found the water was a little low for them to reach. He seems a little better today. His eyes are open, and he looks around when he hears something. He does however, go back into 'sleep mode' quickly. He's inside now. I've got my curtains up so he can get some light, but not direct sunlight. I covered up the vents in my room with a towel so he doesn't get any cold drafts.

As for what medicines I have:
Sulmet
Albon
Fish Zole for canker
Bird Pen (penicilin)
Terramycin
and Globals Multi mix, for canker, coccidiosis, and worms. This stuff is old, but I tried it on a bird recently and it fixed'em right up.

We do have Pepto, but the liquid kind (yuck  ). I have no clue how much I'd put in the water. Would the liquid work just as good?

I'm going to try to pop some of these small seeds in his mouth without aggrivating him too badly. I don't want him to waste all his energy trying to squirm around. It's scary to try and give him water. With a beak so small I'm afraid he'll end up breathing it in  I would take him to the vet, but we can't right now. I'd like to try to help him first, then maybe I can talk my dad into taking him to the vet. I think the closest avian vet I know of is a couple towns away hopefully.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I think it would be easier to feed him some formula or baby cereal rather than the seeds. With formula he also would get more water in him.

Reti


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Good idea. And good thing you mentioned it, we just got back from Walmart with cereal for my niece 
As sort of an update, we got a small syringe and gave Mr. Choo choo (his mate, Mrs. Choo Choo, was previously my friend's. She named her, lol  ) some Pepto, water, and I popped a few seeds. I'll feed him some cereal as well. So far Choo isn't looking much better. At least it appears he feels good enough to try to preen himself.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mary, 



It may be important for you to keep this Diamond Dove in such a way as to be able to monitor the poops and urates, and, to evaluate them for possible clues.


If she was seriously dehydrated, and not eating, then the almost complete absence of poops would be a clue to this.


If she is dehydrated, she would be a lot better off on electrolytes-water than plain water.


If she had not been eating, she may be ill.

If she is not interested in drinking, then she is very likely ill...

If she is not interested to eat, she is likely ill.


I'd have her on white Paper Towells if it was me, in order to see whatever poops and urates as are being made....and to evaluate them.


If you do not know how to feed directly into her Crop, then there might be some problems if you intend to try putting liquid-foods into her Beak with a just-gotten 'Syringe'.


Can you evaluate her Crop? Is it empty? Does it have old food in it which has not passed? Does it seem to have 'air' or 'gas' in it?

If any poops, are they 'green' dabs of 'paint-like' goo? ( Bile )


Or...?


If any Urates being made, are they 'White'? Yellowish" Liquidy? clear pools? clear like Water? 'clear' but like Syrup?


Let us know?



Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Great ! if you managed to get the Pepto down w/ no problem...wait a bit and then feed him some babyfood using the syringe.

For sure, if he hasn't been eating much it is VERY important to try to maintain his food and hydration intake...especially for such a small bird....they cannot go very long without it. Can you get to feel or see his crop ? If so, determine how empty he is and feed him enough to make a visible difference in his crop.

Keep an eye on him...you are doing a good job !


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I can't say much at the moment since I'm not home, but I can give a report on how he was this morning.
He's had enough energy to move to different spots in the cage. I don't remember seeing any poops since I've put him in the house, but I'll have to see when I get home. The crop was completely empty, and he has no interest in eating or drinking on his own. I also felt his keel sticking out, so he hasn't been eating. I'll have to look again, but last night when I was trying to get some Pepto down him, I think there may have been a few 'spots' that could indicate canker in his mouth. In a way, I hope so...so I can actually know what's wrong and figure out how to fix it.
I don't know how to give him anything directly into the crop. If I did, I would...because I know how dangerous it is to try it any other way. I'd hate for him to breathe in the liquid and choke. I'm afraid of that, and I'm afraid to try to get it directly in the crop since I've never had any experience with that. I don't want to hurt him!  I'll have to do something though obviously.
I'll see if we can go pick up something when we get home so he can have some electrolytes.

Is there anything I can do to make it a little easier/safer to feed him liquids?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm glad he's hanging in there, but I still think getting him to an avian vet would be best. I give my pigeons pills by opening their beaks, popping them in and they swallow them, but I wouldn't want to attempt that with such a small bird. Diamond doves are far more fragile than pigeons. My vet, when he prescribes metronidazole, gives it in a liquid form that can be put in the bird's beak with a dropper. If this is canker that would seem an easier way to dose the little one. Also, he may have more than one thing wrong with him. Canker is opportunistic and tends to become a problem when the bird is stressed and that could be from another illness that has weakened his immune system. 

If you can't get him to a vet, then you will need to carefully calculate the correct dose of Fishzole. I don't recall the dose but I think it's on Foy's web site. The amount given is for a 500 gram racing homer so you will need to weigh your little dove and adjust the dose downward accordingly, which I think will be difficult given that diamond doves are only about the size of canaries. You'd be using just a tiny portion of a Fishzole tablet.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Popping seeds and pills in his mouth is much easier for me. I fed him some seeds yesterday like that and he willingly swallowed them. Liquids aren't so easy though.
Fishzole is going to be hard to cut up. I think we normally have to cut the pills into halves or forths with our pigeons, depending on the size. Can't remember because it's been so long since I've had to use it. Just imagine how small it'd be for this dove  I know canker seems to come as a secondary problem to the main ones. I don't know what else would be wrong. I do know that the heat probably weakened him down a bit and caused stress. Then once he stopped eating, that just made it worse.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Becky*

I did some checking at Foys on your med for canker (metronidizol) and it says each tablet is 250mg and made for a 4 tablet to one gallon of water mix. You could mix one tablet with a quart of water for this guy if you can get him to drink. If you do this make sure you make a fresh batch every day. Foys says there is a wide safety margin in the dosage and it should be given for 5 to 6 days. If he has canker, it is important to get this started and don't stop until the recommended time. This method of treatment has the birds dosing themselves according to how much they drink and is why there is a large safety margin. 

If you can get the Pepto down, it should help any gut problems and hopefully inspire an appetite. I woudn't think he would need much more than one drop a day. I checked the weight on Diamonds and it is even less than what I thought, about 2 ounces or alittle less. Roughly, one eighth of a pigeon.

If he will drink on his own, some electrolytes in the water would be a good thing too as people have mentioned. If you are putting the canker treatment in his water, I don't know if you can put anything else in it though. Someone else here should know that one.

When you unglued the poo ball from his rump, did he expel more ? I have seen birds that were plugged up in this way and it is obviously a big relief for them to have the cork removed, so to speak. Something made this condition however and it may have been simply deyhdration or canker.

Something that is easy to feed is pieces of whole grain bread that you roll into a pellet. You can soak it with water and even add your pepto, electrolytes or whatever you are trying to give him. Contrary to popular belief, whole grain bread will sustain a bird for a long time and even make them stronger. It is at least 14% protein to as high as 20% and contains crushed seeds, not that much different from a kaytee formula except that it's main ingredient is wheat and the Kaytee formula is corn. Dove feed is only 11% protein and pigeon from 12% to 19% depending on what kind of feed it is. It does contain yeast however and you are trying to cure canker, I don't know if this would interfere. We'll see what they experts will say.

Bill


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Becky,

I understand you want to do everything you can to help your little friend. But, it sounds like in the past 24 hours things have not improved. And if his crop was empty and you can feel his keelbone, then the food you are giving him is not enough to maintain his weight/strength. If he is sick, and you add to this malnourishment, this is not a favorable situation. If you are not confident in giving liquids via syringe, and you (correctly) don't want to attempt direct-crop feeding....

You need to get the lil' fella to a vet (avian, preferably) ASAP. Please try to convince your parents to get you there.

The birdie needs a full-on diagnosis and it needs food and liquids and meds, fast. At this point, it may well need meds and fluids injected into him in order for him to make it.

If it was a bigger, more robust species, maybe home-care could pull it off. But his condition sounds too fragile to me.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well when I got home a few minutes ago, I was ready to fill him up with all the good stuff, food, medicine, etc. It won't be needed now as he didn't make it  I knew he had a slim chance yesterday when I saw him like that. Pigeons normally look okay until they're pretty bad off, so for a dove, I knew he'd be very weak and harder to bring back than a pigeon.

To answer a your question though, yes he did expel something when I unplugged his vent yesterday. It was like water, almost clear.

I feel really bad that I didn't catch something wrong with him sooner. Then I might have been able to help before it was too late. Like I said, he looked fine, but then did a sudden nose dive into a sickly state. I thought he was eating and drinking fine before, but apparently not based on how thin and empty he felt.

He did live in a cage with his mate, but she's just as alert and healthy looking as she was when I got her What should I give her to prevent this from happening to her too? I'd like to try and eliminate the canker and whatever else may be in there just in case.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Becky, I'm really sorry your dove died. Believe me, when small birds get sick, they quickly go downhill and in most of my experiences there is not a great deal you can do to reverse this.

I personally have some reservations about taking an already sick small bird, like a Diamond Dove, to the vet because of the stress factor. If they are not used to going to a vet like for yearly check-ups, the stress can be very bad on them. You may want to keep a mild antibiotic on hand such as Mardel in cases like these and replace their drinking water with it. Mardel is available at most pet stores and I have used it in the past. Often, you don't have much time between the initial symptoms.

I can sympathize with you. I just had a little sparrow we have cared for for over six years die about 2 hours ago. It really hurts. In his case, he showed some symptoms on Wednesday, sleeping a lot and not eating. I put him on medication and yesterday he was his usual busy little self. This morning, he was back to acting like he didn't feel good and about mid-morning I went to check on him and he had passed away. 

I would definitely keep a close eye on your dove's mate - just in case.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I'm sorry Becky*



MaryOfExeter said:


> Well when I got home a few minutes ago, I was ready to fill him up with all the good stuff, food, medicine, etc. It won't be needed now as he didn't make it  I knew he had a slim chance yesterday when I saw him like that. Pigeons normally look okay until they're pretty bad off, so for a dove, I knew he'd be very weak and harder to bring back than a pigeon.
> 
> To answer a your question though, yes he did expel something when I unplugged his vent yesterday. It was like water, almost clear.
> 
> ...


It's too bad the little fella died. If you're sure that he had canker, it would be a good idea to treat his mate for it. She'll be easy as she is drinking and eating on her own. The fact that the male will feed the female puts her at risk for having it.

Make sure that your tablets are the 250mg ones and then just mix it to a quart of water and treat her for 5 or 6 days. I don't know if you need to follow this with ProBiotics or not. Hopefully, somone will come along to answer that.

Bill


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yep, those are the ones I have. I'll give her some in the water right away.
The little dove had a band on, which I had never paid any attention to until now. It slid right off its foot. Anyways I looked at the band and noticed he was born in 96! Maybe he was just too old to hold up. He gave it a good fight though.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm sorry for the loss of your dove, Becky, and for the loss of Maggie's sparrow. 

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

So sorry to hear this news Mary...


Wish he could have made it through...


Phil
l v


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## Georgina (Jun 24, 2008)

I've just been reading this and thinking "ooo, I know something it'll probably eat" and then I read the poor thing had died! Always too late with my ideas, sorry!!  I'll post it anyway as it may be useful if it happens again... I keep a mixed avairy of small birds, diamond doves included, and they can't get enough of egg food and apple. Egg food is especially good as it gets mixed with a little water so it hydrates slightly as well. I've always given it to any bird that's been ill and they've eaten it. My doves also like to peck at a piece of apple every so often too. It's a very rare occurance if I give my birds either of those things and it doesn't get eaten. Also chick crumbs (for baby chickens!) are readily accepted by my birds when they're feeling under the weather.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Sorry to hear about you the little guy not making it. I had no idea what to tell you, so I just stayed out of it and read what everyone else was posting. Maybe he WAS just an old guy and it was his time. Don't know how long these guys live.....but 12 years is a pretty good life I would think.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*12 years old, not bad really*

That probably was his problem as much as anything. I don't think many Diamonds are going to get much older than that.

Bill


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Becky, I'm so sorry he didn't make it. I somehow missed that he was 12...I agree with what others have said that most likely that's a good lifespan for a little diamond dove. Perhaps it was just his time and there wasn't anything you could have done.


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## Boichot1956 (Feb 11, 2009)

*Diamond dove sick I need help*

My diamond dove "Baby" is sick I believe. All I know is that she was fine yesterday but since yesterday after the bug man came to spray the apartment She is acting quite peculiar. She holds her head up and keeps looking upward and she flutters but can't fly. Could she have been poisoned? I need to know as soon as possible on what I can do for her.

Please


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Was she in the room while he was spraying? Birds can be quite sensitive to fumes.


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