# help wanted feeding 1 week old baby pigeon



## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

i found a baby pigeon yesterday and it was on the ground really cold.
i breed budgies, and there was a particular pair of birds who once raised a finch chick before, so i "fostered" it to them. The hen quickly accepted little "Rocky" as her own and have been perfect parents in keeping it warm and safe. there was one problem though. the hen was having a lot of trouble feeding the chick, as budgie beaks and pigion beaks are very different from eachother, and the hen was having a lot of trouble locating rockys mouth, so ive had to syringe feed him. I was just wondering wat the easiest way to feed a 1 week old pigion chick, (if that) is. 

i have been forcing open his mouth and feeding him on a rearing mixture 3 times a day at 7am, 3:30pm(as soon as i come home from school), and 8pm. I have reared many budgies, a finch and a rainbow lorrikeet before, but they have been easy compared to this stubborn little chick.

as i said, i have been syringe feeding him. but i am having trouble opening his mouth and keeping his little head still while i do it. It is hard because he is fidgety and is still at the stage where he doesnt know that i am trying to feed him. I have been persisting tho, but it takes me about a full hour to get his crop full.

i was just wondering if there are any easier ways to feed the little guy. i normally dont have trouble handrearing, but i have never had a bird this young before. i estimate that he has only had his eyes open 3 days at the most. I am not confident enough to tube feed him straight into his crop as i would be horrified if anything went wrong. 

i would appreciate ANY advice in regards to feeding little rocky

thankyou


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi rockyroads, 


Good going..!


How sweet the Budgies are such good sports..!

Ifthe little Budgies can not make enbough heat for the Baby, you may have to set up a little 'Peeper Warm House' to do so...

As you likely know, if the Baby is not warm enough, it can be fatal...and, one does not want to feed a chilled Baby, either.


Baby Pigeons normally eat by inserting their little probing Beak into the Throat of their Parent, and the parent brings up food from their Crop, and the Baby 'gobbles' it.


My own method for feeding a Baby Pigeon or Dove is to prepare various formulas, and for the Bird to eat them from the hollow of a regular people-baby-bottle-nipple, JUST the 'Nipple', and using the hollow side of it to hold the food/formula...

Here are some older images in a casual album ( 'Slide Show' is best, and allows one to read the captions...) - 


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU

I have since gone ot useing a small clear-top Coffee Grinder which is much easier than useing the full size Blender - 


& 


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


If all is well with the food, and with the Baby, they are very enthusiastic and assertive eaters..!


This has proved a very practical easy and flexible means, allowing small whole Seeds to be in the formula, and also for tepid Water to be offered to the Baby in the Nipple also, between meals.


One tilts the Nipple slightly toward him at his chest level or so...and also gently squeezes it on the sides so he may feel it against the sides of his Beak, to remind him of the tactile feeling of having his Beak into his parent's throat. One maintains the 'squeeze' gently through out his eating.


Your Pigeon Baby should 'nuzzle' in asking to be fed...and, if he is not, he is waiting to be invited to do so, for which, moisten your finger tips in some warm Water, just moist, not wet...

And, from his front, facing him, gently massage his Beak and the area down by the corners of his mouth, and he should understand you are inviting him to conceed to you feeding him, and, he will 'nuzzle' and tentatively probe your fingers with his Beak.

Thus, you may gently guide his Beak into the Nipple...

If he has not been drinking or getting much fluids, possibly just go ahead and allow him some elctrolytes first, a few good drinks here and there over a few hours, and then, let him have some thin formula.

They prefer it to be thin and 'soupy' and also to be allowed to drink Wate in-between meals...and the formula must be about their or your own Body Temperature, also.

Warm formula in a small Cup, in a Pan of hot Water, while stirring...do not use a Microwave.


Probably the Budgery starter would be fine, but if your Pigeon Baby shakes it off and refuses it, it may not be to his taste.


I have recipes which are to their taste, and I would be happy to share if you like...

Peeper Warm House, if it of interest - 

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/512124277uXlSSR


Just use a shallow Cake Pan or bottom cut off inch of some smaller Box or similar inside, with some soft rumpled cloth in the pan, for the Nest proper...and have that on a Towell covered Heating Pad...and the Baby will be right at home and stay put perfectly. Test where the Baby actually will be to ensure it is about 100 - 103 degrees, use the underside of your wrist, press it down on the spot for 30 seconds or more to tell...




Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello and welcome.

I have often wondered whether parrots could crop feed baby pigeons.

This is a link to a thread that describes various ways of feeding squabs, you have to scroll down to find the baggie method and the bent spoon:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682&referrerid=560

And this is a link to tube feeding. Although the pigeon in the video is an adult the method works well for babies. You might have to use a slimmer tube initially but I used the tube in the video to raise a week old wood pigeon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HulTENCRFvU

Cynthia


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## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

thank you for all your help! i will try some of the methods and see what works best for him when his next feeding time is. ( using a baby bottle nipple is a great idea) Rocky is definitely nuzzling, which is part of the reason feeding him takes so long! .The budgie hen keeps the baby pigeon really warm right now, as he is still only small. When i feed him in the morning he is always very warm and lively, so the pair of budgies are definitely keeping little rocky warm enough for now, the only problem is when he grows too big for my pair of budgies to keep him warm.

i Know that you can use a bulb in a box to keep baby birds warm, but will this have a risk of catching on fire? a friend told me to make a box out of polystirene (sorry about the spelling) because its warmer but would that have a risk of catching on fire?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, I have a friend that literally burned the house down by putting a droplight in with a sick, rescued puppy. You can keep the little fellow under a feather duster with a heating pad under a towel for warmth. It's usually said to put it on low but you may need to see how well it's working by way of monitoring the little fellow very carefully and even using a thermometer to figure out what temperature is being maintained. When they're that little, they absorb a lot of heat through their underside because they can't stand up and get off of a heating pad so it's pretty easy to get them too hot. Therefore, you just need to watch it carefully and see how your system's doing. If you can keep it in the mid 80's to around 90, that's pretty good. If he when you pick him up he seems cool and unresponsive, it's probably not warm enough.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

rockyroads said:


> thank you for all your help! i will try some of the methods and see what works best for him when his next feeding time is. ( using a baby bottle nipple is a great idea) Rocky is definitely nuzzling, which is part of the reason feeding him takes so long! .The budgie hen keeps the baby pigeon really warm right now, as he is still only small. When i feed him in the morning he is always very warm and lively, so the pair of budgies are definitely keeping little rocky warm enough for now, the only problem is when he grows too big for my pair of budgies to keep him warm.
> 
> i Know that you can use a bulb in a box to keep baby birds warm, but will this have a risk of catching on fire? a friend told me to make a box out of polystirene (sorry about the spelling) because its warmer but would that have a risk of catching on fire?




Hi rockyroads,



Really, by the time he is too big for the Budgies to really brood him, he will be making his own abundant heat anyway...so I am sure he will be fine with them doing what they can, till he becomes endothermic, which they will do very well soon enough...and they seem to do it sooner when they need to, so...just let the Budgies do the warming, I am sure it will work fine that way.


Anyway, I do not know how Budgies feed their Babys, but if it is similar to how Pigeons do, the Baby's Beak would very soon, if not already, be far too big for the tiny Budgie's Throats to manage, let alone the volumes of food the Baby will wish to eat...


How totally adorable their adopting him like this...!



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Rockyroads,


Post some images..!


I'd love to see this..!


Phil
l v


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## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

*thanks for the help!*

i will try get some pics of them when my dad gives me my camera back! lol

i haven,t got a


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## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

sorry about that.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Phil - after viewing your first link of the baby being hand fed I have some serious pigeon envy! Absolutely adorable  Thanks for posting that information in such an easy to understand way (even for newbies like me  )


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Dezirrae,


You are very welcome...


The infant Babys are especially delicate, and all the more so if they have been starved or dehydrated or injured before one gets them.


I have been very pleased with useing the various modifications of the basic 'Nipple' for them drink and eat from, and it is very easy and Natural for them.


It still takes some finessing to guide them and to co-ordinate one's movements with theirs, for things to go att heor best.


This has worked well for fledgling age Pigeons also, who for having got seperated form their parents are sometimes found starving or grounded, and who are far less forgiving and sometimes hard to win over, but this wins them over very well, for them to eat, and soon then to eat on their own.


Too, I have used this quite a few times with older or old long since mature adult Pigeons who had been Cat hit or otherwise seriously hurt with physical trauma or illness and had no interest in pecking Seeds, or whose injurys discouraged them from pecking.


And quite a few times I could get them eating 'like-a-Baby' from the Nipple, and they would even do the Wing Pumping and all the mannerisms a Baby would do, and this made it all so much gentler and easier than having to tube-feed them...and after a few days then they felt like pecking again, so they had the easy and nutritious Baby-feeds to get them through that period...as well as to cheer them up.


The other thing one can do, which I did not mention, is to imitate the call or sound a parent Pigeon makes when it is calling it's Babys or youngsters, or, announcing to them, that he or she will feed them now, which is a sort of "oooOOOoo! - oooOOOooo! vocalization, low, deep in the throat, slowish.


This alone can see a withdrawn and wanting nothing to do with you 'Peeper' or 'Squeaker' look up questioningly and with interest, and then if one do the warm-moist finger tip 'massage' of their Beak at the same time, they totally turn right around and are VERY interested then to be fed, and once fed even a little, they are very accepting and enthused and appreciate the new deal and are totally happy and glad to be understood.

This call then when used whenever Nipple-feed time comes around, will also continue to work for the same Birds once they are fledged and flying, so if one wishes to call them down form the roof or something, they will come.


Later, as they get more grown up, they stop being interested in Baby-feeds, and oprefer to peck on their own exclusively, and soon then they leave to make lives of their own, just like they would have had their biological parents raised them.


These simple things allow it all to go so easy and nicely and happily for the Baby, and for the care giver, since they things one does which are in the Bird's own terms, and nothing then is done by force or bullying or punishing them for our lack of understanding.

No weaning problems ever, any Baby can also be guided to peck Seeds in addition to being fed...and fun, too...for them and us..!


Phil
l v


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## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

hi again ive had rocky for a week now, and he has been really happy and health on the baby-bottle teat method up until yesterday. now he has another problem. a lot more urgent than the last. please take a look at the post "2 week old baby twisting neck"


Pease help!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Done, others will also be along to respond.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Trees Gray said:


> Done, others will also be along to respond.


Hello Trees Gray,
Hehe hi there! i'm new to all this but i just want to ask a couple of questions.
Well to start off, i have a pigeon egg incubating in my room, away from sound and sunlight, it is going very good so far, usualy every 3rd day i check on it to see if its growing bigger and bigger inside.

So far it is alive because the veins have already started and i can see the baby's Eye! hehe so cute and also the body is well i cant describe the size, but its getting Big! and i'm so excited for it to hatch, i have a eye dropper type syringe thing that is to feed it, also on Saturday i'm going to the pet shop to buy some baby formula, so i'm all set, i just need to know a couple of things.

1: What are the signs of the Egg about to hatch.
2: When is the age to let it fly?

Well there my 2 questions  i hope you can tell me what the answers to those questions are hee hee. When the egg is hacthed i'll take a photo of him. Oh and my Avatar is a Spotted Turtle Dove, thats the pigeon my egg will hatch into 

FlyingHigh  pigeon lover..


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I really have to agree with Phil that the nipple method is great and offers a lot of success stories. The thing is, it allows you to watch exactly how newborns are eating...You control their sips, you control how far their beak goes into the food--everything. Their food is so liquidy and they're so delicate at that age that aspiration is a very real possibility. Thankfully, I found the baby bottle nipple method extreme useful and successful for the first while of my baby pigeon's lives. Soon after, though, they got so huge and squeaky and ate so much that it took a long time to feed through the nipple, so I started with the balloon syringe method, which I really love but think is NOT suitable for babies who are not as strong and boisterous. The syringe balloon method is best for squeakers...Newborns need a more delicate way of feeding. 




> Hello Trees Gray,
> Hehe hi there! i'm new to all this but i just want to ask a couple of questions.
> Well to start off, i have a pigeon egg incubating in my room, away from sound and sunlight, it is going very good so far, usualy every 3rd day i check on it to see if its growing bigger and bigger inside.
> 
> ...



Hatching your own pigeons is an extremely amazing experience. I too successfully hatched and raised two baby feral pigeons... Incubation is quite an easy process for pigeons, because their eggs are rather porous and thin-shinned and therefore do not need a lot of humidity, and the hatching process is also rather easy, as compared to some neonates, squabs are rather strong and precocious upon birth, though it should be acknowledged that they are still very much altricial.

If you can just now see veins and the eye of the baby bird inside, it is still at a rather early stage. I have become accustomed to the development of all avian embryos due to a lot of experience in hatching columbiformes (such as pigeons and doves), waterfowl and songbirds. The incubation process is much the same no matter the species of bird.

In pigeons, an 18 day incubation period is to be expected. The incubation period, though, can vary even 3 days, either way. If you have your temperature at about 99.5-101 in a circulated air incubator or at about 101-102.5 in a still-air incubator, you can probably expect the baby out on the 17th or 18th day. The higher the temperature, the earlier the hatch takes place...And vice versa. It's not really safe to have early or late babies, though early is significantly worse than late. The humidity is not crucial in most altricial birds, as they commonly have thin-shelled eggs, and should be low, maybe 45-50%. You will know the baby is about to hatch when the whole egg is filled up except for the very bottom of it near the air cell. The air cell will grow to be very large and slanted. In fact, it's amazing how pigeons differ from other birds in the area of the hatching process.

On the 16th or 17th day, you will probably notice the air cell looking very large and slightly slanted. The very MOMENT the baby pigeon pokes its beak in the air cell, the cell will become all the more slanted and much larger. The change is extremely obvious and also occurs very quickly. Baby pigeons do not have a long period of time between internal pipping and external pipping like songbirds and waterfowl do. My pigeons externally pipped (a process in which the egg tooth is rapped against the inside of the shell to create dents, point outward, that are slowly formed around the circumference of the air cell until the baby bird can push off the top of the egg and squeeze out) almost the moment they internally pipped. It's like they take a deep breath and then push as hard as they can into the air cell and crack the shell right away. They are quite strong little guys, but do not peep very much upon hatching, like waterfowl, who scream like there's no tomorrow.

It's important to note that the humidity should be about 55% at this point in incubation, but not too much higher. If lower, the baby can get stuck in the shell as it will be too dry and sticky, and if higher, they can actually aspirate water from their air cells and choke. I go by this... Humidity is always low before and after the initial internal pip, but after a few external pips, when the baby can breath from outside the egg and the inside of the egg is more visible and therefore can be dried out more easily, the humidity should go up. Therefore, there's no worry about drowning and no worry about sticking. Assisted hatches are usually easy... I can actually tell by the smell of the inside of a baby bird's egg when it's ready to hatch. I guess that's strange. You'll also be able to tell when they're ready to come out when what used to be blood is brown and goopy and what used to be veins are thin, frail lines that do not connect to the baby at all. If you do need to do an assisted hatch...Just PM me. 

As for flying... It's probably the least of your worries. It varies depending upon the pigeon, really, but I think after just over a month, my pigeons were learning to fly. Pigeons are extraordinary flyers.

Here's a link to a website based around waterfowl... The candling pictures are quite good and depict the incubation process quite well, but do not pay attention to the days. A day 2 goose egg will not look the same as a day 2 duck egg and most certainly won't look like a day 2 pigeon egg. Just find the one that looks most like yours and how close it is to filling up the entire egg, how big the air cell is, etc. The higher the humidity, the smaller the air cell and vice versa. But I wouldn't worry too much about air cell problems, unless it wobbles around like jelly...Pigeons have very good hatch rates. I think they might even do better in incubators with experienced persons than with their own parents sometimes.

Anywhere, here's the think:
Mink Hollow Farm


Good luck and please update!


PS: I just realized it's a spotted turtle dove that you're hatching. I must say, first of all, that the hatch date will be about 14-16 days after incubation begins...Doves have shorter incubation periods than pigeons. I must also say that *doves are very, very small when they're first born, and extremely delicate*. I'm not trying to discourage you, but *please* treat this baby like you would your own, let your hands always be gentle and kind and never harmful. Mistakes are so very possible with such tiny babies, so being careful is key.

Instead of an eye dropper, I would _highly_ reccommend using the baby bottle nipple method. It's so easy! It's very good for tiny babies like turtle doves, as well... I've used it for ringneck doves, rock doves (feral pigeons) and it's worked fine for newborns. Go to the store and buy a baby bottle nipple. Then cut off all but the very nipple part of it...The part that baby humans suckle on... When you feed your tiny baby its formula, just fill that slightly with formula, maybe a quarter to a third of it, and dip the little one's beak in, slowly, carefully... It would even do to let it take a few sips, then bring its beak out and tilt it back to make sure they swallow everything. It's best to be careful. You know about the crop, right? Well, I have no idea your experience level so would like to just say it's like a bag, the first step of digestion for birds, and you should be able to see it prominently when your baby is full. It should be squishy like a waterballoon but not hard.


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## FlyingHigh (Nov 1, 2007)

Yay! thankyou ever so much!
I'm really happy that i know so much more about this Egg ready stage.
I'm going to go buy a baby bottle now, and take off the suckle part and then cut off everything but the end nipple bit.

And also my Egg has aleady got a air cell and is quiet large, and the baby nearly takes up the whole egg. So this must mean that its got another 3-4 days to go!

Also the veins are already thin, and the baby moves around, very cute! 
I must say, i'm very glad i have a Pigeon-Talk account because its very helpful that people around the world have the decency to spend that time to write and tell you what to do.

I'm only 13, and this is my first Incubation. My last one however did have an egg but sadly for me...it had no baby in it..so for about 4 days i was incubating and empty egg that only had Yoke in it. So that was very sad for me. Still i'm glad i know this one has a real baby in it and that i know now to use a baby sukle nipple thing. I was thinking i should call it "Flic" isn't it a cute name!? even if its a girl i'll still call it Flic.

But thats enough from me  ps: I'll send a photo of my little baby once hes hatched or a couple of days after hes hatched just so you all know how he/she's doing. Thankyou!

Come with me..
Take the hint..
Spread your wings..
Just flap them hard..
And fly away..
And be free, free as a bird should be..


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Yay! Sounds like fun. I wish I was in your place right now. Just so you know, you're going to have to feed the baby every 2 hours for the first while, but probably not over the night unless the baby is very hungry or weak. I figured, the best thing to do is to give them a big meal right before bed, and make sure they're warm...They can manage very well. 

I'm actually 15. My first pigeons were born about three months after I turned 14. Raising them properly has nothing to do with age...It really all has to do with how much you commit yourself. My babies grew well, were always chubby, grew in feathers very well, grew faster than most, and were always boisterous and fluffy. They were always warm. 

I used a 10 gallon aquarium with a reptile heat lamp clamped on the side of it... Then I used a thermometer...One that has a cord from the actual temperature gauge that can go wherever you want... It's best to use when you want the temperature reading from a specific place, because heat rises and varies a lot. I put the little cord down with the babies in a tuberware container, lined with toilet paper. They were always decently warm and the heat lamp had consistent heat.

Though I'm young, I consider myself quite knowledgeable in the area of incubation & hand raising. One of my huge dreams is to hatch and hand raise a baby parrot--either a cockatoo or a macaw would be amazing! No one wants to offer me such an amazing experience, and so...I just can't. I would be completely and utterly dedicated to raising a baby parrot, just as I was to my pigeons. I am obsessively clean and orderly when it comes to raising the babies... From stirring formula until it's at the perfect temperature, to feeding tiny, delicate babies slowly, to making sure everything is sanitary so they don't get sick from bacterial growth in the formula.

I really reccommend any baby bird formula. So far I've used Kaytee, but I've heard Hagen Tropicana (or something along those lines) is very good, too. Hand feeding formula is basically rated, and varies, by a few things... How well it holds its temperature, how well it holds its form (not thickening up as much in the crop, for instance), the nutrients, and obviously its cost. Hand feeding formula is pricey by rule... 30 dollars for a large bag of Kaytee... But I reccommend buying a big bag, because it's always worth having around. It can be good for up to a year after you buy it or so... Very good to have on hand.

After a week or so, it's wise to start adding in seeds, ground up peas, even dried fruits. Phil can tell you about the mixture he feeds his babies. I believe in this being great, but I also strongly hold by Kaytee because of the success I've had with it. I also hold by slowly feeding them more... My babies were CHOMPERS and ate a LOT! But they were so boisterous, so full of energy, and from what I've seen, they were a lot bigger faster than other hand raised babies. I just think they do well with more food. 

In the wild, babies are almost constantly full...So in captivity, I make sure to feed them larger meals... Topping off is something they do in the wild, too... When they're just newborns, it's best to wait until their crops are completely empty or almost completely empty before feeding them again... But when they're older, you can top them off throughout the day a bit, but still watch the crop. They start regulating their own temperature pretty early on, too... Anyone will tell you that cuddles are essential for the well-being of baby pigeons..They like to be held and to sleep in your hands. It adds to their happiness. Any baby needs this, but I'd say birds need it the most.

Anyway, I think you and I should definitely keep in touch. It always excites me so much to hear about new babies being hatched, born, raised... It's all so very exciting for a bird geek like me. I used to design incubators in my free time. But I ended up just buying one.  I guess you sometimes can't beat a solid thermostat, large glass window and fan. Nope... I've had no trouble with my Turbofan hovabator.

I'm thinking of raising a little one this summer... It absolutely delights me. And one of these days, no matter what, I WILL find someone willing to let me hatch and raise a baby parrot. I bet they'd be surprised how dedicated I am to my birds.


*PS:* Did you know that baby birds can hear outside of their eggs a few days before they hatch, too? I play Beethoven for my babies, before the hatch, and during it. I also play it for them at different times of life...Hey, the Mozart Effect... I consider Beethoven to be superior to Mozart, extremely amazing composition, and therefore, it HAS to help them develop well, right?

Well, it's worth a shot anyway.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

My two Desk-Nesting ones recently enjoyed their two Eggs to pip...and I got to see more than usually, and up close, the continuous sittings and intermittant attentions of the parents to their new Borns.


Anyway, the parents fed them almost constantly, but tiny 'tiny' meals...more or less from the first.


Now, I for one certainly do not want to be feeding any new Borns, nor do I have the mysterious formula for true Pigeon Milk to use even if I did.


But certainly any tiny Pigeon or Dove Baby who we find ourselves having to care for and feed, can be fed fourty or fifty times-a-day, with very small meals, from a very young age, and once older, can have much fewer meals, which are much larger in volume.


Logistically, one method of permitting many small meals for the very young, would be to make several day's formula and freeze it in one of those Ice Cube Trays which make very small Ice Cubes. A Plastic kind would be best.


Get a Crock Pot, and keep it filled with some inches of Water, set the Thermostat for a steady 100 degrees or so, and in it, keep a small cup into which one has the next or current batch of formula to be used...and every couple hours, begin a new fresh cup and new 'cubes'...


Too, "K-T" or any other powder formula product, should be kept well sealed with the Air exhausted, and in the Refridgerator or Freezer...and it should be smelled and tasted often.

If not refrigerated it will become rancid in a short time, and will not be wholesome for the Baby...and it will interfere with Vitamine and Mineral assimilations if it does become rancid.

You can instantly tell rancidity by taste, or, if you know what you are looking for flavor-wise, you can.


Lone Babys benifit from being in one's shirt against one's naked stomach, or in one's hand in 'Hand Nest', as much as possible, since there is no sibling ( and of course no sitting Parent) to provide the immediate tactile contact kind of warmth they find assuring.

For that matter, even pairs of Babys benifit form being in one's shirt or in one's hand as much as possible.


I have seen pro-tem 'ex' ferals who while in pre-release, find mates and build Nests and have Babys in here, be willing and interested surrogate parents to orphan others whom I may present to them.


This of course works very well, and would be especially needed or valuable for any Baby less than say six days old or so, so they may have the Pigeon Milk which otherwise we can not provide.

But I have seen them be willing surrogates to Babys who were well over 20 days of age, or even those who were imminent fledglings.




Phil
l v


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## rockyroads (Oct 26, 2007)

*thankyou*

thankyou evryone for your help, rocky made a full recovery. hes nearly ready to be released now, im going to release him near a group of wild pigeons. sorry i havnt replied for a while, my comps. been down thanks for your help!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi RockyRoads, 



Unless you were way off in your age estimate, he would not be old enough for release yet...


Can you post some images?


And, how well is he eating and drinking by himself?

How well is he flying indoors?


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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