# Badly hurt young Roller



## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Dear Pigeon people,
I didn't want to share this topic but find myself not knowing exactly what to do. About eight years ago we purchased a pair of rollers. They didn't roll much and i didn't understand "why" they rolled. Since that time I feel I have learned they roll because of an inner ear problem that does not allow them to fly in a stable pattern. Some have this problem to a greater degree through breeding and genetics. Now that I feel I have learned the "why" these bird's roll I wish I hadn't ever gotten any rollers. I am not one given to knowingly exploiting the deficiencies of anything.
Now to the reason for this topic. We have a young roller who is a hitter. low roller etc. It hits the ground while it's flying/rolling at a high rate of speed. It has injured itself badly. I cannot cage anything for it's entire life.
I feel my only alternative is to have the bird put to sleep. I am sad and in tears as I write this. Caring for and enjoying pigeons has been a two sided sword for me. There is so much beauty, love, enjoyment and companionship in being a part of pigeon's lives. When I got my first feral squabbie I named Percy Mae I was so ill I slept so much of my day away. Gradually I responded better to the bone morrow medicine until I am where I am today. And there is the "other" side of raising pigeons. The sad happenings. 
Not that you asked any of this of me but I hope you can understand my unwillingness to destroy the life or take the freedom from birds that have been a big part of my LIFE.
Please comment on this situation. What do you feel I should do with this young beautiful roller?
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Nancy

[This message has been edited by Nancy (edited June 04, 2002).]


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## DaveD (Jul 9, 2001)

Nancy, 

This hobby is indeed filled with many highs and lows. The lows are what keeps many people from raising them for long. Most of us have seen, for example, a favorite bird who is too sick or injured to go on, or that runt who is much smaller than it's nestmate and has very little chance of survival. During our first year here, we lost birds to sickness, seemed we barely got to know them at all. However, I feel the highs outweigh the lows. 

I do feel neccessary to step in here on the part of rollers and the people who keep them. I don't consider it wrong to keep them, I have always had a large number myself. Maybe thier rolling is the result of a defect, but that doesn't make keeping them exploitation or cruel. They're wonderful animals, as i'm sure you know. Racing homers race. Rollers roll. If no one kept them as pets, they'd still roll. I consider rollers one of the finest breeds. If anything has been exploited over the years, it would have to be some of the fancy breeds, developed by man for his pleasure alone. These birds are culled for having markings that don't make standards, and what bothers me most is that man made them what they are.

Keeping a flying breed penned up is a debate that probably has no true answer. Many feel it's wrong. I feel that if certin things are provided for them, there is nothing wrong with it. Many people who have purchased adult homers must keep them penned up. I myself have a large kit of rollers that aren't allowed to fly free at this point.(for reasons i'm too tired to explain) Many are rolldowns and culls saved from other lofts. These birds are provided all the accomidations any other birds would have, and i've build a rather large flight pen for them. Probably not the ideal solution, but it sure beats the alternitve, which in most cases is the trash can. 

There are people who don't care as much about preformance and things of that nature. I am one. I have a wide variety, but I have birds who have only one eye, birds who were injured and cannot fly, and a ton of crossbreeds that serve no real function, other than the fact that they're alive and well today because we took them in. I belive they're quite happy here. 

Prehaps there is someone in your area like this. I know if i was closer, i would gladly take him off of your hands. Rolldowns are capable of living normal lives, they can mate and raise thier young. Mine don't seem to miss flying all that much. Prehaps someday they'll be able to again. 

I'm very much against taking a life unless it's necessary. There is a place for everyone, they just have to find it. So, I await others to weigh in, but my vote is don't kill him, if you're unable to pen him up, find someone who can take good care of him. 

Best of luck, Dave

------------------
David and Kellie Dittmaier
Haven's Loft
www.geocities.com/havensloft


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Thank you Dave. Are you the Dave who was able to make his pigeons well again with the help of Dr. Zollars. If so I was very glad that happened for you and your birds.
Thank you for expressing your feelings and ideas. I hope i didn't give the idea I don't love this bird as that would be incorrect. 
I dearly love each bird we have.
Thank you again.
Nancy


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Dear Nancy,

Thank you for sharing your story...it takes courage to admit to others how we really feel about the difficult situations in life.

I don't have any experience with rollers, but have plenty with euthanasia, (perhaps too much). In a rehabilitation centre, those tough decisions are played out every day.

As much as I can, I try to let the injured or ill to "speak" for themselves. There are some that look me straight in the eye and "tell" me that they have had enough with my intervention, the continued pain, or the indignity and fear. There are others that seem fine with it all. And there are those that you fall in love with...those that it would tear your very soul to part with, but who tell you it's time to set aside your feelings and opinions because you do love them.

May I suggest that you let your roller decide? Perhaps he would happily adjust to a situation of "captivity"...perhaps not, but perhaps he should be given the chance to choose.

I hope this helps. Whatever your decision though, I do know that you will have not made it lightly or without sincere thought and sincere anguish...so there is no judgment of you here.


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Dear Wild Dove,
You are kind. You are correct. For me everything pertaining to life and death is of a serious nature and not to be taken lightly. I will allow the roller to tell me as you suggest.
Thank you.
nancy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Nancy,

I am really sorry that you have to make such a tough decision. A couple of years ago I would have agreed that to keep a pigeon in captivity was harmful and frustrating to the pigeon, then I took in a feral that could not be released and I was forced to reconsider. I built her an aviary, and in time added 4 other birds with the same complaint. They never pay much attention to the world outside the aviary, as I would have expected, nor do they gaze yearningly at the sky. Instead they argue with each other about territorial rights, court, preen their partners, build nests, strut around picking at seeds, sit on eggs, sunbathe and shower, or have long leisurely baths. They look perfectly content in their safe little world.


Cynthia


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Nancy,
Would you be willing to describe the injuries and what they caused? Perhaps if we knew more, we could discuss some possibilities other than putting the bird down.


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## DaveD (Jul 9, 2001)

Me again. 

I am the same dave who sought the help of Dr. Zollars late last year. His findings and treatment likely saved this group, and I still talk to him occasionally. Thank you for the referal. 

It is important to consider the birds wishes. Over the course of last year, there were a number here to gave in to sickness. If the bird appears to want to get better, I'll do anything in my power to help them. However, sometimes they just wish to be left alone. Generally, if they stop eating and drinking and simply hide somewhere waiting to die, I will euthinize them to end thier suffering. Some consider it cruel, but when no other option remains, I will use it. 

I aggree with cyro 100%. The birds, especially one who is injured, don't seem to miss flying. Our kit does spend a great deal of time in our large flight pen, which was built because I knew some of the birds who call this home wouldn't be released. But, they've had opportunities to escape a few times, the door to the pen blowing open, for example, and they all stayed where they were. I have plans for in the fall, I have some ideas on how some of this group could be allowed to fly free. 

I'm also curious as to the type of injuries the bird has. I've seen rollers come back from some really bad ones. I look forward to more on this topic. 

Thanks, Dave

------------------
David and Kellie Dittmaier
Haven's Loft
www.geocities.com/havensloft


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

The young roller appears to have damaged it's hip and foot. It lies on its side. It has been isolated from the rest of the flock until today. After many days of rest it is occasionally standing on the good leg/foot. I opened the door of the pen to allow it out with the rest of the flock if it wanted to leave. it did not leave.
The reason I mention putting this bird down was not because of the severity of the injury, which appears to be quite extensive and tramatic for the bird but because I can't cage this animal for the remainder of it's life and I can't allow it to continue to harm itself.
I am reassessing my thoughts tempering them with all the careful input from you.
I appreciate your kindness and help.
Thank you.
Nancy


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Nancy,
It could heal and if you take the bird to your avian vet, a ateroid shot might help to reduce swelling.

------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Fred,
Thank you.
Nancy


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Nancy:

Anthropomorphizing on behalf of this pigeon is also a double edged sword. Why is it an axiom that "no creature shall be caged for its lifetime." 

An injury or situation that you find unacceptable, my be entirely acceptable to the non-human individual whose fate you're deciding.

I would most definitely not euthanize this bird based on the facts at hand.

Cage? Think sanctuary.

And why must this bird never be free from the cage? Bernie loves being held, snuggled, and watching TV with us. Bernie will never be a free flight pigeon--he wouldn't last a day. By your criterion, he should've been put down? Bernie?!

Dear lady, I always enjoy your posts, but unless I've missed something major, I must strongly disagree with your default position of euthanasia in a case like this.

It ain't over till it's over, and this little one seems to be making an effort to bounce back.

Why not make the effort to find him a loving home?

--Ray


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Two weeks ago this Thursday, I had a telephone conversation with Dave Roth of the Urban Wildlife Society, of which I am a member.

He described to me a pigeon that was brought to him with a blow-gun dart, behind its eye, that penetrated right through its head! I'm saying that the dart was literally protruding from both sides of this bird's head!









In a procedure I will not begin to describe, the dart was removed. The pigeon lived for many years, laid her eggs, and went about her pigeon business, before dying of cancer less than two weeks ago...









The point is, she was given her chance. Odds were against her, but she beat those odds and lived out her days. She gave no prior indication of being ill, such was the constitution of this irrepressible little soul. Necropsy later revealed cancer everywhere...

Never underestimate a pigeon!

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Dear Nancy,

Fred's suggestion is an excellent one.
May I suggest another?
We use a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory called "Metacam" extensively for treating soft-tissue injuries, swelling, dislocations and pain relief. It's use was intended for dogs/cats suffering from arthritis, but is now being used with birds as well. We have had significant results at the rehab centre, and unlike a steroid, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory can be used for a much longer period of time, or whenever necessary, to relieve pain. It is also very safe to use in conjunction with other medications, (but NOT with a steroid). Please ask your vet about it. If you need more information, please let me know, and I will happily e-mail the correct dosage to you.
A decision like this is always so much more difficult when you see suffering and pain involved.


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Hi everyone,
I have given all this very serious thought. I work hard to care for our pigeons and don't want any of them to suffer. I would like them all to have happy lives as pigeons see happiness. I have decided to help this young roller out and see if it can live a contented life within more confined surroundings ( santuary, if you will, Ray).
I would like to learn more about the anti inflammatory you spoke about wild dove.
Thank you for all the ideas and input into a difficult subject.
Nancy


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Wild Dove,
Is Metacam a controlled(prescription item) or can it be purchased over the counter? I have a feeling I know it is controlled but I figured I would ask anyway.


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Wild Dove,
Would you help me locate a place to purchase Metacam or Septra?
Thank you for your help.


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Dear Nancy & Fred,

Yes, Metacam is a controlled substance, (unfortunately). The generic name is "Meloxicam".
As for where you could get it...I live in Canada and am not sure if Metacam is used in the States, but I do have the manufacturer's web-site for you: http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.ca/vetmetica/sman.asp 
Perhaps you could get availability information from them. Also, any vet should be able to give you information as to whether it is approved for use in the US.
You are looking for oral Metacam...not injectable.
Sorry I couldn't provide you with anymore help than this.


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

percymae	Wild Dove,
Would you please give me the web address again. The address given was not known.
Thank you
Nancy


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Sorry Nancy,

Try http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.ca/vetmedica, or if that doesn't work, just http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.ca and go to the small animals section.
I tried to get on the site myself through a search just now, but couldn't either. Must be having techno-difficulties because I did get on it this morning.
Cheers,
Wild Dove


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## joann woodring (Mar 27, 2002)

Nancy,
It is heartening to hear how concerned you are for the well being of your roller. If only everyone was so compassionate!
Did you consider having this dear bird as a pet house pigeon? I think she couldn't roll and injure herself further in the house..she could have a nice home cage for her own, in a room, and be let out when you are there.
I have a pigeon living this life style, seemingly very happily. She was badly injured when whe was a young feral adult, rescued, and given to me because she was unreleasable. She adapted to being home bound, got to like me, and now thinks she owns the place!
As far as your birds' injuries go, a good avian vet should be able to tell you if it is inhumane to keep her alive. Vets have much more experience and knowledge about this than most of us casual animal owners.
From your post, it sounds like you truly love this pidgy and just want to do the right thing for her. I hope it all works out. Please let us know what the vet says if you take her to them.

joann


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Wild Dove, do you know what the correct dosage of Metacam is for pigeons? This is one medicine I happen to have in the house because it was prescribed for my dog. However, it can prove fatal for dogs, so I stopped giving it on her. Do you know if it can have the same effect on pigeons?


Cynthia


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