# deep litter loft or cleaned daily loft ?



## LowellsGunDogs (Dec 18, 2010)

What's everyone's opinion on deep litter verse cleaned daily style of loft ?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Deep litter works with a dirt floor because the microflora is there that turns it to clean composted dirt. it needs a bit of moisture for it to break down and be a clean dirt under the shavings. 

on wood you would just have to turn it or fork it over a few times a week and then clean it out completely every so often because you don't have that natural process going on as much. 

the only draw back is checking droppings..they are hard to see in deep litter.. 

I use a deep litter method on a fly pen with a roof and dirt floor. .. it has been great! .


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't have the time or desire to clean daily so I use a floor dressing and seam to have few problems with it. My breeder loft is straw with clay kitty litter under which I do clean once a month, and in my old birds I have plywood floor with nothing on it and a concrete floor section covered with large pine bark chunks that works the best. I put 2 bags of bark down 3 months ago and still can smell the pine when I'm in the loft and it doesn't blow around when the birds flap their wings. I'll clean it all out after the molt is over and add new bark before winter.


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## LowellsGunDogs (Dec 18, 2010)

I have a 12x10 loft now , basily a shed converted into
A loft. I've been deep litter in it for a few years. It's on a wood floor. How I've done it is just keep adding shavings as it starts to get dirty and breaks down. For awhile I would rake and shop vacation the dust ect... but lately just kepted adding more shavings. I have about a 9 inch base now. I've completely cleaned out the entire loft a few times and started over. I've had zero sick birds doing this, and I haven't had to use medication.

I read an article several years ago that the deep litter is the best way to go because it keeps your birds natural ability to fight off sickness better. Verses a anally clean environment.

Ive gone into my friends lofts that are cleaned daily or weekly and even thou its, clean it's still seems more dusty and I feel it in my lungs. Where as in my loft with deep litter that's cleaned by adding new shaving every once in awhile it's not nearly as dusty in comparison to their lofts.

My question comes because I'm starting a project to build a new loft. It's going to be 24 foot long with three 8 foot sections. The two outside sections will be 12 foot deep a d 8 foot long, and the middle will be 8x8. I'm planning on only one entrance in the middle where the 8x8 section is, that's where I'll have a 8x4 landing board. On my floors I'm planning on either 2 or 4 feet of expanded metal all the way across the entire front of each section for air ventilation, with one foot of expanded metal going across the entire top back wall, again for air flow ventilation. I've thought about going overkill and putting spinners on the roof too. Now this is my dilemma , I like deep litter, so I was thinking that I might put a 2x6 or 2x8 board across the seam of the expanded metal floor and where the wood floor starts and use deep litter too.

Eventually I want to have built in 2x2x2 individual nest boxes across the entire back section of the two outside sections, so it gives me options for different systems of flying and breeding all from one loft. Note on the two outside 12x8 sections I plan on adding a door that opens to a 12x12 open air aviary, so I can rotate breeders or young birds out on training or race days during old birds and breeders and old birds out when training and racing young birds etc...

Any thoughts ?


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## LowellsGunDogs (Dec 18, 2010)

Sprint Wing with box perches you can check dropping.

Has anyone done both and found their birds stay healthier on one system verses another ? 

I raced a few years back just one year, the had financial issues that stopped me from flying the last few years , but I'm breeding get late hatch to fly in next seasons old birds. So I don't have science to back up reality in a multi loft shipping get truck environment. I'm sure my birds are partially healthy because they stay clear of sick birds too.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi LowellsGunDogs,

I also have a few different set ups, but I will preface this by saying WHERE you live and your general environment can and will make a huge difference in what works - IMHO.

In my 1st loft, it is much like Spirit Wings. A 8 L x 4 H&D kit box that has *HOLLOW* Straw (not hay) for the floor of the box. I add straw to each of the box perches in the winter for a bit of added warmth (we get to -50 F). This kit box sits inside of a pole barn that has been screened in. The floor is dirt (well aged manure actually) with straw on top (again hollow straw). This works very well for me. 
Warmer months, I only put straw on the floor of the kit box and in the nest boxes - not the perches. I can quickly and easily do a scrape of the box perches and rest of the kit box into a short but wide mouth bucket and recycle the poop. In the time they eat breakfast or dinner (10 mins) I am done and waiting for them to finish eating. I bet yah, it takes me 5 mins to clean the full box. The floors when needed in the pole barn area, I can do in about 10 mins with a leaf rake. Very easy on my lungs. Bird count 25 - 40

My second loft is a very small loft of again 8x4 and only houses a few birds. I use hollow straw in the nest boxes. I do a quick 1 - 2 min scrape of the floor (which includes an aviary section) before feeding each morning. Nothing to it. Just scrape it all into the center where a hole was made and it drops out below into the same wide mouth bucket and I keep rolling along calling "house keeping' as I enter into each of my 3 bird homes.... (Seriously, why not add fun to your day and theirs as you clean??) Bird count 8 adults max - plus chicks

Third loft - This is a walk in loft of 8 x 12. Again, I knock and call 'house keeping". I pull out any poopy straw from the nest boxes in here (although I currently have no pairings here on purpose, there are birds that like to nap and sleep in the boxes over the perches). Toss that in the bucket and I scrape the perches. 
Flooring in here, I use a porch outdoor flooring paint with two coats on the OSB (applied by rolling). I put down hollow straw on the floor and if there is a big poop pile I just pick it up using my plastic coated gardening gloves and toss into the bucket and I am on my way.
Bird count 7 (it's a new loft and haven't had time to be birthin more babbies...  Said in my best Gone with the Wind voice)

Upon exiting the birds area of the yard I wish them a good day of flight and thank them for staying at my loft. It's really more humor for me... 

Off to the other side of the yard and I scatter the straw and poop where needed.

All of my 'bird houses' (lofts, be it walk in or kit) are well ventilated, solid straw for me does not work as well as the hollow. Mine is a barley straw as well, so it dries very quickly. I have also used pine shavings. I find the straw suits me better. I do make sure it is thick, and if there needs, I would add the shavings under the straw with a chick if the leg development didn't look right (legs must have deep bedding to support bone structure or you end up with bowed legs in chicks). I've never had a problem with this, and it's likely that my straw really is thick enough...

This is just how things work for me in a variety of lofts given my cold, often damp and snowy environment of winter, and very dry when not humid and hot summers. (hey, it's Montana, and it's nothing but extremes here! Really hot can be really dry or really humid!) Hope this helps.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Very humid here in the Pa/WVa/Oh area....I have a 18 inch wide by 8 ft deep liter system,under my YB perches....Starting when the babies are weaned,I do not clean this "Moat" of dry droppings etc....I use Oil Dry as a base....Starting June 1st,it gets completely cleaned out,and new fresh Oil Dry...And I rake it clean every day until the end of the racing season....Keeps the birds healthy...My loft floor is scraped at least twice per day,as is the stock loft & OB section...No deep liter for those birds....There are many ways to keep pigeons healthy...But I believe keeping the loft "DRY",is the best way to do it....Some guys don`t clean/scrape at all..But the birds stay healthy because the loft is *bone dry*,and it has *great ventilation...*.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 27, 2014)

Alamo said:


> *bone dry*,and it has *great ventilation...*.


EXACTLY! Completely agree Alamo. How you accomplish this best I think is the difference between environments.


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## doveman2 (Jul 22, 2012)

does sand work good for the loft floor?


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## Silver Wings (Jan 27, 2014)

Try this - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/not-doing-a-red-rose-anymore-73298.html. Titled 'not doing rose loft anymore' he uses sand and likes it. Lots of 'Mews' (hawk houses) are built this way - just one bird... But see what this fella thinks, not sure how long he's used sand or how many birds he has. Worth asking!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

They say "River Sand" is good....But needs to be replaced every 2 months.....Corn cob pellets are better for a complete floor covering.....Oil Dry for a partial "Moat" across and under the YB perches works great...Been using this method for 30+ Years.....Alamo


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I agree with whats been said, main thing is keep it dry how ever that works for you.I scrape everyday if possible.I get up early in the morning before I go to work.Its really the only time I have but I learn a lot while I am cleaning by watching the birds and seeing how they move around the loft and I get a good look at there poops.Its takes me about 45 min.By the time I get home in the evening I get a quick look but pretty soon life takes over and I am busy with the wife and kids.So maybe scraping the loft every morning is better for me then the birds. Jeff


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree with luckyloft. While you are in there cleaning, you do get to watch them, and notice if anyone is acting off. So I think you pick things up quicker if there is anything wrong. If you don't have to do that, then you probably aren't in there as often.


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