# I Have Been Written Up



## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

At Work For The First Time After 10 Years Of Being Employed At A School District. Thought I Would Just Share This With You , Re: This Horrible Thing I Did. My Co-worker Turned Me In For Stealing A Cracker & The Worst Crime Was They Claim I Fed It To A Pigeon.. I Have A Meeting With The Big Man On Wed Morning, She Picked The Wrong Person To Mess With This Time.. 

The weird part is this co-worker steals everything, and is always looking to find wrong so she can report it... She also this past week took a photo of the dirty water bucket after she mopped our classroom so she can report the janitors not doing their jobs. I believe she has big problems.. 

She has been messing with me for the past four years. 

She hates pigeons so there ya have it , she is mental ...heeehee!

Andi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear about this.

Sounds like this co-worker needs to get a life...she does have some issues. I'm sure with all the reporting she is doing the BIG Man must see a pattern and realize this person has problems.

Perhaps when you go see the Big Man, she may end up to be the topic of discussion.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Shoot, we might have to write you up for feeding a pigeon a cracker, depending on the type. Was it an "all-natural-ingredients-,-no-preservatives-,-organically-grown-cracker"?

Or was it one of those "artery-clogging-,-teeth-gumming-,-laden-with-acrylamide-,-super-duper-saltine-guaranteed-to-push-your-blood-pressure-through-the-roof-while-your-tongue-is-slurpin'-for-more-crackers"?

And if the second case--you didn't REALLY just feed him one, didja'?

'Cuz that's a REAL offense.

Pidgey


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

The whole thing is crackers if you ask me!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

andinla said:


> .......
> 
> She hates pigeons so there ya have it , she is mental ...heeehee!
> 
> Andi


 Ah....Andi,

Arn't you suppose to be studying in "study hall" ?

Or....have you simply run out of constructive things to do ?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Andi,

This is looney tuney stuff, maybe wear a costume to the meeting....also, if you're eating crackers, brush some off your clothing and a sparrow and pigeon fly down to cash in, that's not you're fault  ...worked for me at work once.

fp


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

*Crackers*

Andi, 

How dare them!!!!!!Maybe it is leading up to a April Fools joke, this can't be serious.

Please don't let this stop you from grabbing a handfull of crackers every time you get the chance. You know what they say, when there is one pigeon there are always more. I made that up. But I don't want that terrible person to fret up your week-end.

Feather


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

If this person is that much of a trouble maker then if you know of more people who has had to deal with her get a written paper from them and see if you can get her canned. A person likethat makes other people having to work with them not want to tolerate them at all. I wish you luck but state that feeding a cracker to a pigeon is not a crime. 

Cindy


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Well Andi,

You have a tough adversary, one who is willing to lie and invent things to make her case. You are dealing with a psychopath of sorts. Guess you will have to make a case for who actually owned the cracker in question. Perhaps ask the head-cheese if he thinks your co-worker is crackers herself. Let's say you took a cracker for yourself, then later it fell on the ground and you of course could not eat it. Then "said" cracker belongs to the dumpster, except in your case you crunched it up and threw it for the birds. Yikes. It's a crisis and your boss (and any sensible boss) probably has no time to discuss it. I don't think you are in too much trouble actually. Except you are working with a power tripping lunatic.

Pijjie wanna cracker? Hmmm, yum, yum. (Hey, where's my nice pijjie mix..!!!!!)

Cameron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Andi .. OT .. sort of .. just had a lovely young family bring me a female Mallard that had been hit by a car. They took her to the local emergency vet clinic who referred them here. What lovely people .. young adults with two drop dead gorgeous little girls about 5 and 7. They asked the "BIG" question .. did we get avian flu from this duck .. answer no, you did not .. further answering to the adults .. then the kids asked if they could touch the duck goodbye .. parents looked at me .. I said fine .. and deal was done .. happy parents, happy kids, and a badly injured duck who did her PR job.

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Well Andi,
> 
> ....... Perhaps ask the head-cheese if he thinks your co-worker is crackers herself. ....
> 
> ...


If she's crackers, and the 'boss' is head-cheese, I just hope there's no bonding going on between them.  

fp


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

No fp there isn't!

Don't you remember? The cheeze stands alone.....The cheeze stands alone.....Hi ho the dairio....The cheeze stands alone.

Feather


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Oh lord Feather you are so funny sometimes!

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

OK, I'm tappin' my foot to the beat here, Feather....You sure about that?

fp



PS-When do I get my new face? This one's wrinkling up and falling off


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

It is great to see the gang from Comedy Pigeon Central back again! I see most of the crew that were part of the "Roscoe" fact finding mission are all here, so I had to put my 2 seeds in too! Thanks for the laughs! 

Oh, Andi, please let us know what happens to your cracker snitch dilemma!


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*You Guys Crack-er Me Up !!*

No this whole issue goes back to last August when another Co-worker who thought she was being turned in for falsifying her time card thought she would pay my friend and I back by calling one of the big cheeses regarding pigeon feeding and water bowls in our yard at the school. So the big cheese made a appearance when I was absent and confronted the children & teachers to say there will be no more pigeon feeding they can cause viruses and diseases. She then passed out a letter to all the employees warning them if caught feeding them again we could be fired. Attached to this letter was a list of many diseases humans catch from pigeons. You all know the pest control vermin list. Well I never did get mine, since I was out for two days no one handed me one.

The sad thing is the cracker I supposedly have stolen from them was expired so they were actually trash bound and I happened to open one and well you know the rest. There have been photos taken of a employee actually asleep on the job and they were given to our boss and not one thing was done to her. No letter in file, nothing. 

I wish this was a April fool's joke but it is real and it is really sad. Our employer is very afraid of racial lawsuits to the point things get turned around and twisted. For instance on April fools morning two years ago, my son was attending school (5th grade) at the same place I work, got into trouble and the principle called and said hi Andi Tayler is being suspended for telling a little girl in his class she had chocolate on her face, I said your joking right? being it was april fools day.. No Andi you need to come and pick him up. Well after picking him up I find out she is a little black girl who had been saying mean things to him for weeks and his only remark back was you have ------on your face! ok now if she had said you have vanilla on your face I wonder what would of happened?? I get furious at the school for their fear of lawsuits. And that is why this co-worker who steals, lies, etc nothing happens and what can one do nothing.. One of my best friends at work is black and she even said it is true. 

I am not a get even kinda of person , because I feel like she will get her's one day. I have seen her steal materials (supplies), janitor supplies, lie, etc, there are a few other co-workers that will be called in to testify on my behalf so I am not worried. Being fired for feeding a pigeon now that sounds like poop to me.. My boss who is making a big deal out of this picked up a baby mole 3 weeks ago at the other site (school) where her office is and called me to find out where to take it, don't they have diseases, viruses?? heeeheee...

Well stay tuned for the day time drama rama as the crackers crumble I will let you all know how the meeting with Mr. cheese goes regarding the crackers and the cracked up co -worker maybe I should bring my coo-coo bird..

Andi


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Well, Andi, ALL of US at Pigeon Central are behind you ALL the way. When you go to meet the "Big Cheese," feel the wind of pigeon wings ALL around you!

I guess taking a box of crackers with you would be out of the question... 

BTW, sooooo nice to see the "comedy gang" back! We need a new "cause"...Victor is usually a good "source."


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*From a good source...*

Gee Shi, it is so heartwarming to know that I am good for something around here!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Victor said:


> Gee Shi, it is so heartwarming to know that I am good for something around here!


Oh, indeed, you ARE...


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Andi,

I'm thinking of you today. Good luck with the cheese! 

Feather


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> Andi,
> 
> I'm thinking of you today. Good luck with the cheese!
> 
> Feather


Yes, we are all hoping for the best! Do update us when you can!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Andi~ I have now joined the nosey members group...What happened?

Where are you? We are worried about you.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, Victor...

Now that you're one of the ones who doesn't know what's going on you've decided to join the Nosey Members Club? That's reeeeeeaallyyy gotta' hurt!

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

How odd! I THOUGHT I saw a humor Pidgey post!  

Nah, just a figment of my imagination... 

I know he's only on threads helping needy pigeons...

Yes, Andi, how did the meeting go?????


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Yep, those of us in the Nosy Member Club here at PT just GOTTA know!!

Andi, hope all went well today....please let us know.....ASAP!!!! LOL

Linda


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> I know he's *only on threads *helping needy pigeons...


On threads and needles maybe. Or is it pins and needles? Maybe pin-feathers and needling Shi just for the reaction. Oh Lord, where is this going next.....

Well andi, I was thinking about you this afternoon and had decided to bring up your thread to ask what happened. Looks like the others beat me to the punch. Funny how we all think alike some days. So, what happened? I am really curious and hoping all went well for you. I was a litle worried about you after reading your last comments. It was starting to sound serious.

Cameron


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Victor said:


> Andi~ I have now joined the nosey members group...What happened?
> 
> Where are you? We are worried about you.



Victor,

You Are Soooooooooooooo Funny! 

You know our group still needs a leader, Maggie, (although a very superb nosey member,) did not want to lead us into nosiness.

How about it Victor? 

O.K. Andi, I second Victor's question. Where are you? All the members are just sitting around on your thread, just waiting to hear what happened today.
I hope that you are not standing in the unemployment line.

Feather


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

No thanks Feather~ I am best at stirring the pot than looking for it. 

I think you would perform that duty quite nicely...maybe Cameron?


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Andi, 

You aren't wearing those stripped pajamas are you? The Cheese must have abducted you and is keeping you from any form of communitcation. They better not lay one finger on you.

Tell us where they are holding you, so we can come and bust you out. Mr Squeaks (Super Bird) and I (W. W.) have been especially trained by none other than our Comander and Chief Super Hero "Tooter". Since his brush with the hawk, he has rescued thousands of pigeons from the clutches of hawks everywhere, and has built a coalition of brave, very strong pigeons for his special operation of abduction before consumption. He has sent his birds out looking for you. They are spread far and wide. We just need word of where you are.

W.W.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And people think I've got an imagination!

Andinla's last post:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=119739&postcount=1

Last known hereabouts:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=1381

Victor's not having her shipped to his house, is he?

Pidgey


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*To all that are concerned~

Be it known that I, Victor, Father of Tooter, the noble feral, had nothing to do with the disappearance of our member Andinla, best known as Andi. 

Feather and Squeaks, it is up to you two brave ones to do your best to find Andi.I can only hope that she can be rescued and be returned to her empty living room and computer.If the big chesse and his coherts of pigeon haters have her, I hope they at least release her. My therory is that they are BRAINWASHING her! 

Pidgey, great work on the picture up-dates. Her poor pigeon sitting on top of that quiet computer in the empty house. Gosh, I hope he will be ok.


I can only assist as an advisor.Tooter would want it that way. 

Now, let's go do our jobs.Do not give up the cause.

Andi, where ever you are...please be safe. *


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

IT IS OFFICIAL…..THERE IS AN ANDI ALERT!

We heard a shwush of wings, then saw what looked like the sun cross the sky at the speed of light.

When my birds caught wind that Andi was the human that risks her life to save pigeons trapped on the top of buildings in Los Angeles, all of the males flew off after Tooter’s brave soliders toward the city. I heard one little squeaker ask his mother if that was Santa Claus. She said, no son, that was our HERO’S BRAVE ARMY. Consider it an honor that you even saw them today, because most young pigeons have to believe without ever seeing them.

Andi, if you see the ski brighten up and hear a shwush of wings, know that your rescue is near.

Feather


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Victor said:


> No thanks Feather~ I am best at stirring the pot than looking for it.
> 
> I think you would perform that duty quite nicely...*maybe Cameron?;*)



Oh that would be an honour Victor, except I am always the last guy to know everything. How could I possibly lead a rabble who is more informed and tuned in than me? 

I could offer moral support in the nosiness department though. Will that help?
Andi, where are you ???? You are missed by all of us!

Cameron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> Victor,
> 
> You Are Soooooooooooooo Funny!
> 
> ...


Mmm, now I could volunteer to be leader. Depends on what the requirements are. I AM an original member of the Noseys AND I was the originator of the IBBs (for those of you who have forgotten, stands for "IceBergBunch).

I would also suggest that the Nosey's motto be: WE CARE ENOUGH TO *ASK!*

I also think I have become somewhat infamous as an "agitator," with occasional bouts of humor thrown in to liven things up! (Pidgey could vouch for this)

Respectfully submitted,
Shi (a.k.a. "Mr. Squeaks")


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Folks, Andi's phone # is here on the board .. go find it and do well.

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Folks, Andi's phone # is here on the board .. go find it and do well.
> 
> Terry


Just recently PMed her...do you think the "name change" is affecting her?

I discontinued my LD phone service because a) I made so few BUT mainly because b) I was being charged even if I did NOT make any calls!


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I will E-mail Andi just in case she, like others can no longer find the site. PM's won't work if she can't sign on. Hopefully she will get my message OK. Meantime, we should get the word out to others, (even regulars who stop posting) we were talking to who might also be lost and be getting discouraged about where pigeons.com has gone. Hopefully everyone will find their wayback but there is no telling for sure.

Cameron


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

No Andi Yet?

If you guys can find me the number, I'll call her tomarrow. Shi, you did lead us into nosiness!

Feather


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Here I am over here silly ones, I just read all your*

post and concerns and I bellieve it was feathers post the santa claus thing and it brought tears to my eyes. You know this world is a wacky place sometimes people are so mean and cruel. But you my dear friends that I don't even know what you look like (excluding Victor and Terry. ) Make me feel sooooo much better with your words of kindness and your caring ways. So now onto what happened at the cracked up cracker meeting. It's long and kinda hard to folllow. Here are the characters

1. Boss (mine) is the director who says what you want to hear at the time and turns around and tells other co-workers anything and everything you say.

2. # 2 boss is the boss who hires every teacher in the district at the main office.

3. #3 boss is their boss and everyone's boss (THE BIG CHEESE)

First off when I was written up and handed the paper that I all told you about, I got upset and emailed my boss and then later recieved a call stating that the big boss (her boss#2) wanted to meet with me, I declined and put it off. I then made a call to the big cheese to let him know what was going on with their daycare program. And I made the appointment. Well I showed up and my co-worker Maria was there to tell her story and also testify on my behalf. We walked in and the boss who wanted to have a meeting with me, was in the door way of the big cheeses office I said hello and Maria and I sat down. The secretary said Andi I thought ths appt was for you only. I said well Maria has something to say regarding this matter. Well I soon learned that my boss standing in the door way had got wind of this meeting with the big cheese and now this meeting is about me and the pigeons which was not what I really had planned (well it was) but I had some important issues to address. They then told Maria to wait in the lobby and the big cheese was not so nice. He said I want you to listen and listen good, and don't interupt me. I said fine, he said you were made aware of no pigeon feeding last August 2005 and you have gone against our policies here at the district and it will not be tolerated. He said he emailed me back after I had written him regarding the attached list of viruses and diseases that were given to employees in August and how I had stated it was mostly false statements on that sheet distributed to all of the employees etc, etc, he said and in my email to you I had explained to you that when I was working in Palos verdes school district we had a pigeon problem that got out of hand and they spent thousands of dollars on removing nest and replacing roofs at the school. yadda yadda yadda....I said I remember. He said what happens is you create a horrible living situation for them by feeding them and then when you stop you will be the cause of their deaths. (ok I am feeling sick right about now) I said I understood and that I was not feeding pigeons on school grounds , I was then informed that the large open playing field does belong to the school and not the city. They only take care of it. I said fine.
The big cheese then gets up and says he is off to another meeting.... I am like wait excuse me this meeting was not set up by me to get drilled on pigeon feedings, I made the appointment and I have something to say hellooooooo. And I also want Maria to be present at this meeting , she was called in and the two big bosses (cheeses) said ok what is it you have to say. I said well you better write this down because there is just too much , you might forget it all. So they got their pads and pens and I began to talk. 

I said first off I was never given a warning letter back in August 2005 in person I was absent for two days and was not given one. 

Secondly I don't appreciate my boss (director) calling me a drunk to other employees after a x-mas company party where all of us had a few drinks. She also told a co-worker I was begging for a diamond ring. I said when the boss was leaving the company party I yelled out hey I have been working for -----five years now wheres my gold watch??? joking everyone there was laughing and she turns around and calls me a drunk to another co-worker days later.. 


I have been telling the director for years that my co-worker was stealing, creating chaos and thrives on it., and I believe she is the one who is behind this bird thing maybe not directly talking to you , but had someone turn me in . I have witnessed my co-worker break into rooms and steal materials worth over $100.00 on several different occasions, which I have reported to the director. I said my boss was aware of my camera being stolen from a co-worker last summer and said nothing about it , just didn't care. Every summer for the past four years my stuff gets ripped off and nothing is done about it. There have been pictures of employees sleeping on the job and submitted to the boss and nothing was done to these employees , not even written up. Why? Another employee who was paid a weeks salary that she didn't work in the month of august and her time card was photo copied (not by me) and I was questioned that same pay period for four hours that I actually worked. why does one employee get to leave for the day after working 4 hours and puts 8 on her time sheet and gets away with it?
By this time I am getting a little bit upset rambling all of this stuff off. And I said I have worked for this district for 10 years now and I do not steal and I don''t lie. The cracker that I supposedly have stolen was in the trash, no one saw me feed a pigeon. I do my job, and I do it well, I don't get paid enough to be treated like this. And Then Maria started to tell her problems to our bosses. We were told they are going to investigate the statements that were made, and that was it. 

I don't want to even go to work anymore, I can't stand it there. Everytime I walk across the field I feel like eye balls are staring at me. I don't think my co-worker is aware of the statements regarding her as she is being her phony fake nice self. I let it out all of it, and I feel good but then again I feel like a snitch.. How the heck does my co-worker feel good about all the crap she causes at work , the stealing, lies, talking about everyone, and feel good about herself? she is a church going woman ha! I don't understand. 

Thank you, all of you for your concerns and I will let you know when the chaos creating co--worker finds out she has been turned in. Things are going to get ugly. Until next time....as the drama rama beats on. 

PS I am going to resign from my position in May... I haven't told them yet.. 

Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Andi,

Hang in there. Do you have a new job lined up. Just something to bear in mind before bailing out. I have been there and there is really no satisfaction in leaving a battle un-fought before the end and the outcome is really in sight.

It's always better to take a firm position and stand your ground when push comes to shove. The bullies will always try to push you around with words and big noises. It's almost always bluff and bluster. But even if it isn't you can still make your stand and make your point and force the idiots to push the button first. Why blow yourself up when others are so willing to do that for you. Know what I mean. 

It's the same here at Pigeon-talk. Lots of folks pushing others around, not willing to have open minds and think for themselves. I see it to my dismay almost every other day. BS and bluster, real thinking seems to come second. And I don't mean second nature. That's my point of view anyway.

Hope it all goes well for you in the next little while. You are standing up for yourself really well. Except closed minds cannot take a good read from what you are saying. They just tend to run on old worn-out programmes, more suited to the thinking that brought on the cold-war than the thinking that has brought on any real good change to the world.

Cameron


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Good Morning Every One,

Andi, 

Why don't you put in for a transfer.There must be plenty of schools in your district. You have been there for 10 years! Why should you walk away from your pension. Wait awhile until things settle, and then seriously think about the years you have behind you, and try to add onto that, but not in a setting that is killing you before you even retire.

We Love You Andi,
Feather


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I agree that waiting would be the thing to do. After all, you are not in the wrong. Sometimes, unfortunately, assumptions are made without the full story being known. I think this happens many times.

However, I also agree to make sure you have something else lined up first if you decide to leave. Of course, if you don't really need something lined up first, that's another story. Stress causes nasty illnesses - if things can't be worked out, I certainly don't blame you for leaving. However, anything you can do to affect change for the POSITIVE, would not only benefit you, but those before and after!

Thanks so much for letting us know what happened. Obviously, as you can see, when "family" get into a pickle, everyone comes to the defense!

Please keep us updated - we all care and will be watching...and waiting - whatever you decide!


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## PigeonSitter10 (Feb 18, 2005)

Pigeons work magical ways 0.o.first as you sit in danger one of them appears.nothing much.you look away and turn to see 3 than 4.they seem to be massing in an army of rescue.next thing you know your back on your empty computer seat with your relieved avian lookin at ya.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

PIGEONSITTER 10,

THANK YOU FOR THE AWESOME ENDING! 

I'm sure Mr. Squeaks (Super Bird) is back home with Shi as well. 

Feather


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Fight!*

Andi, I hope you think about this long and hard before you resign. 
That is probably what the higher ups want. Don't let them run you off. You have many years vested to leave. 

Human beings can be a vicious specie. Don't give in. 

You have a love and respect forpigeons that most people can not comprehend .You don't take these ignorant folks home with you, nor do you have to socialize with them. Maybe for your sanity, just keep the crackers in the trash? Just my thoughts. 

Feather does have a point...can you maybe transfer to a different school?


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I have thought about my choice of staying or going*

but I really believe things will never change, and my sick co-worker will never stop with her behind (It is not me creating chaos game playing that she starts) I really never knew anyone like her, that can be so holly and turn around and be so phoney to your face (sweet) and turn around over and over and try to burn me. 

I also can't relate to people who don't have the compassion for any animal in need of help or just trying to survive in this concrete world we have made. There is always another door to open once you close one behind you, and there must be somewhere better for me to make a living and be at peace there. It is scarey sometimes working with people with a sick mind you never know what to expect when you show up for work, and I can't feel like this anymore. So hopefully in May my pastures will be greener and brighter until then I go to work and do my job, and god forbid if I see a pigeon fly next to me I think I will give it a kiss and hug my co-worker goodbye......

Thank you again for all your kindness and concern on my well being. Feather I love you too!!!! You guys are very special to me more than words can say.. I better stop the tears are a coming ... 

Andi


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Update On Employment With The Cheese*

I gave my notice to the boss today that I will be gone at the end of May...yeah! her reply " Oh what are you going to do ? " Watch children... I didn't tell her directly across the street from where we are... 

I have been trying to tell her all week, but she is hard to locate sometimes, since she doesn't work at our location...three days ago she showed up to collect money, and I was outside by the tables when a bird flew in and sat at the bottom of my feet, one of the kids said Ms. Andi one of your birds... I said what bird? that one right there.. I said in front of my boss you silly bird I told you to go away not now, and take that cracker with you!!! heee hee and my boss said and I suppose you didn't drop that cracker there did you Ms. Andi,.she laughed and walked away... Weird the whole thing is just weird... The kids have been saying all a long look Ms. Andi it's your flock, I keep telling them no they are free flying birds , not mine.. I just look out for them so they don't get in to trouble that is all. (I think it is cute , but the big cheese could have eyes out somewhere, ya never know)

I feel free I am leaving after 10 years, and I will throw seed will ever I D---! well please MR CHEESE......................CHEERS TO A NEW BEGINNING OF A BETTER WAY OF MAKING A LIVING , AND NOT WORRYING ABOUT THE CHEESE.... 

Andi


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Andi,

Best of luck in your new job. I'm sure it will be a tremendous relief to be away from all the pressure and c**p that you have had to endure in your current position.

Terry


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*thank you Terry*

hope all is well at your duck pond and rescues

Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Goodbye Head-Cheese!............

and Hello Crackers! Make that crackers and Cheese just for fun. Your pigeons will love it all better that way too!

All the best to you of course Andi and I hope it all turns out well. Those people sort of sounded a little closed minded anyway. Keep us posted on how it all turns out. Now that the decision is finally made it is likely too late to turn back. So burn your bridges!

At least that's what Napolean did. And it worked for a while too. Just as an aside though, that is usually only a good tactic for one or two battles, but not the whole war. I hope you keep that in mind. And life is too short to hold grudges too. It never worked for me. Actually, I never manage to stay mad more than 24 hours, then as far as I am concerned everything is back to normal.

Guess I have no focus. Now I am getting pathetic sounding. Where is my violin when I need it anyway! I'm playing a sad song for both of us now and it is sweet, melodic and so full of regret. Hell, I need a beer! Bartender! Bring me a Coors!

(the previous message paid for by the Coors Corp of America)

Have a great day Andi and keep feeding the birds to your hearts content. I support you efforts 100%.

Cameron (the loopy)


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

And I RAISE my Corona Light to you too, Andi! 

Of course, we all wish you the best and look forward to your new advertures - bird and otherwise!

Out with the old and IN with the NEW...sure glad you had the guts to turn in your notice! You'll be much happier!  

Cameron...didn't know they had Coors in Canada...that beer sure gets around!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Smelly Cheese*



andinla said:


> At Work For The First Time After 10 Years Of Being Employed At A School District. Thought I Would Just Share This With You , Re: This Horrible Thing I Did. My Co-worker Turned Me In For Stealing A Cracker & The Worst Crime Was They Claim I Fed It To A Pigeon.. I Have A Meeting With The Big Man On Wed Morning, She Picked The Wrong Person To Mess With This Time..
> 
> The weird part is this co-worker steals everything, and is always looking to find wrong so she can report it... She also this past week took a photo of the dirty water bucket after she mopped our classroom so she can report the janitors not doing their jobs. I believe she has big problems..
> 
> ...


Hi ANDINLA, I wonder what the big cheese also known as LIMBURGER a real smelly type of cheese would say about CORNELL UNIVERSITY'S projects. CLASSROOM FEEDER WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/cfw and the dreaded  PROJECT PIGEON WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/ppw all for school childern.  GEORGE SIMON


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

george simon said:


> Hi ANDINLA, I wonder what the big cheese also known as LIMBURGER a real smelly type of cheese would say about CORNELL UNIVERSITY'S projects. CLASSROOM FEEDER WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/cfw and the dreaded  PROJECT PIGEON WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/ppw all for school childern.  GEORGE SIMON


Yep! Good points, George!

Terry


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*That's funny you*

brought that up 
Hi ANDINLA, I wonder what the big cheese also known as LIMBURGER a real smelly type of cheese would say about CORNELL UNIVERSITY'S projects. CLASSROOM FEEDER WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/cfw and the dreaded PROJECT PIGEON WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/ppw all for school childern. GEORGE SIMON

The big cheese for the district actually had to replace a entire area of a large building at the previous school he ran from pigeons nesting, he is very anti -pigeon.. Told me it cost them thousands of dollars , blah , blah blah,,,

Andi


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

andinla said:


> At Work For The First Time After 10 Years Of Being Employed At A School District. Thought I Would Just Share This With You , Re: This Horrible Thing I Did. My Co-worker Turned Me In For Stealing A Cracker & The Worst Crime Was They Claim I Fed It To A Pigeon.. I Have A Meeting With The Big Man On Wed Morning, She Picked The Wrong Person To Mess With This Time..
> 
> The weird part is this co-worker steals everything, and is always looking to find wrong so she can report it... She also this past week took a photo of the dirty water bucket after she mopped our classroom so she can report the janitors not doing their jobs. I believe she has big problems..
> 
> ...


 By now...this is all pretty much all old news. But, there is a lesson here. If you are going to rely on working for "The Man"...then you must accept the fact, that it is their way...or the highway....So, if you don't like that, then become self employed. The other point is, taking items which are not yours, is called "Stealing", does not matter what the value is, the fact that it was a stale cracker, or a million dollars, is immaterial. When you steal from your employer, it is called "Employee Theft". So, far you have demonstrated to this bystander, that you engage in theft, do not follow rules, and generally have a problem with authority.

When you own the means of production, then you can write your own rules, or do as you please. From this bystanders perspective, you should be offered a bit of cheese to go along with your whining. 

If you don't think you are being treated fairly then quit. Find an employer who will over look you taking stuff and not following policy. If you are providing such valuable service, then employers will be lining up to hire you. If on the other hand, they won't be lining up, because you should be happy to have a job, then you better get with the program, and do what you are told. Because my guess is, you can be replaced pretty simply and perhaps for less money.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your update, Andi.

Best of luck on your new job. I'm glad to hear that you are going to leave your current job, and all the nastiness  that has been going on there.

Good luck to you in your new endeavors.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Hell, I need a beer! Bartender! Bring me a Coors!
> 
> (the previous message paid for by the Coors Corp of America)
> 
> Cameron (the loopy)


Camrron,

For shame, for shame! You should know by now the rules of this site...

We only drink *COO-ERS BEER*, 'round here!

Pidgey

(The previous message paid for by the Coo-Ers Coo-rp of America)


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Geez, Warren .. you were a bit harsh don't you think? I do believe Andi had posted that she already does have another job. 

I suspect you'll be getting lots of responses from members here today.

Terry


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> By now...this is all pretty much all old news. But, there is a lesson here. If you are going to rely on working for "The Man"...then you must accept the fact, that it is their way...or the highway....So, if you don't like that, then become self employed. The other point is, taking items which are not yours, is called "Stealing", does not matter what the value is, the fact that it was a stale cracker, or a million dollars, is immaterial. When you steal from your employer, it is called "Employee Theft". So, far you have demonstrated to this bystander, that you engage in theft, do not follow rules, and generally have a problem with authority.
> 
> When you own the means of production, then you can write your own rules, or do as you please. From this bystanders perspective, you should be offered a bit of cheese to go along with your whining.
> 
> If you don't think you are being treated fairly then quit. Find an employer who will over look you taking stuff and not following policy. If you are providing such valuable service, then employers will be lining up to hire you. If on the other hand, they won't be lining up, because you should be happy to have a job, then you better get with the program, and do what you are told. Because my guess is, you can be replaced pretty simply and perhaps for less money.



I don't post here very often but I must say that when I read this post it really made me wonder, why all the animosity toward another member?
Andi stated in her original post that the cracker was expired and headed for the trash and also that her co-worker "claimed" that she fed a pigeon. In the big scheme of things taking crackers out of the trash to feed to pigeons does not seem to warrant such harsh criticism and downright hateful comments. I have spent many hours reading the posts on this site and have always marveled at how truly caring, compassionate and considerate the members are toward each other. It is one of the things that makes this site stand out above all of the other pet/wild animal care sites. This is a sad day when one member would go to such lenghts to hurt another member. (And I see this person is a moderator.......shame...shame ...shame )

I will pray for you.
Beverly J. Slape


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren - did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Why in the world would you attack Andi like you did? And you a moderator. Here lately, almost every post you make is negative. I have agreed with you on some things but this is definitely not one of them.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

george simon said:


> Hi ANDINLA, I wonder what the big cheese also known as LIMBURGER a real smelly type of cheese would say about CORNELL UNIVERSITY'S projects. CLASSROOM FEEDER WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/cfw and the dreaded  PROJECT PIGEON WATCH www.birds.cornell.edu/ppw all for school childern.  GEORGE SIMON


 TO ALL PIGEON-TALK MEMBERS, I hope you will take the time to go to the two sites posted here they are filled with a world of information. The project pigeon watch has answers on things like the west of nile ,on the effect of [WON] on the crows. The classroom feeder watch is a great tool for teaching childern about birds. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME its one way we can get the word out to childern.Maybe I have posted this in the worng place if so I am sorry.But we need to fight the narrow mined people we incounter every day. Keep the fate. GEORGE SIMON


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Warren - did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Why in the world would you attack Andi like you did? And you a moderator. Here lately, almost every post you make is negative. I have agreed with you on some things but this is definitely not one of them.


 I will concede that it is possible that I did get out of the wrong side of the bed. But, in rereading my post, I don't think I attacked anyone. I pointed out some realities in the work place, as I see them. I also felt there would be some value in giving a point of view which was not offered, that of the Administration. 

I understand now, that not everyone holds the same work ethic that I do. And never in my wildest imagination, could I see myself coming onto a pigeon forum and complaining about my employer who had given me 10 years of employment. Never once, did I even consider taking a paper clip, from an employer. If my supervisor or management, asked me to follow certain guidelines, then I did. Perhaps that is why, for much of my adult life, I have ended up as part of the management team. That was untill I gave up management for ownership. 

I am sorry if my view, or if my words, seem unduly harsh. Apparently my one ideal, has already been done. And that is if you don't like your job, then quit. I guess I could add on to that, if you don't like your job, can not be loyal to your employer, and can not give your best effort, then do both yourselves a favor, and find a place where you look forward to going to work, life is to short. 

I guess, I underestimated, how few people are able to see things from the point of the owners, or administration. It stems in part I think, from the thinking of "entitlement". Which just goes to show, how far off the topic this thread has gone. And why I should never have ventured off the topic of pigeons.

As far as "Here lately, almost every post you make is negative", I will have to review the posts that I have made lately, and see if I could have been more positive. Of course, if your looking for a guy who will sugar coat and then lead the cheers, then you might be looking in the wrong place.


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I will concede that it is possible that I did get out of the wrong side of the bed. But, in rereading my post, I don't think I attacked anyone.



To quote you........

"So, far you have demonstrated to this bystander, that you engage in theft, do not follow rules, and generally have a problem with authority."


And.....

"Find an employer who will over look you taking stuff and not following policy. If you are providing such valuable service, then employers will be lining up to hire you. If on the other hand, they won't be lining up, because you should be happy to have a job, then you better get with the program, and do what you are told. Because my guess is, you can be replaced pretty simply and perhaps for less money."



I think I would feel like I were being attacked if you had said that to me.


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

And.......



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> And never in my wildest imagination, could I see myself coming onto a pigeon forum and complaining about my employer who had given me 10 years of employment.



This post was on the "General Discussions" area of the forum where most people talk about things other than "Pet Pigeons or Wild "Feral" Pigeons".
Is there a rule that I am not aware of that precludes one from discussions that include talking about ones' everyday life?? That is one of the nice things about this forum. It is a shame if it is truly discouraged.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Also, the whole issue started because of Andi feeding a *pigeon,* which IS this forum. The fact that she used a cracker and a big deal was made out of it, is, imo, very petty. Obviously, there were other issues that were involved and at least Andi had a chance to "speak her piece." From the information she gave, I, personally felt she did the right thing in quitting, and Warren, she followed the principle of "if you don't like it, quit." 

I have ALSO seen this principle in action and think it's deplorable. What kind of attitude is that to have for a workplace?! I realize that things are changing and people today will rarely stay in a workplace for any length of time. Along with the above "if you don't like it, quit" is the worker's attitude of "I'm leaving, not giving much, if any, notice, and if people are left holding the bag, who cares?" People are going to be changing jobs like they change their underwear - OFTEN! Too bad, why not stay and go for a POSITIVE CHANGE?? Then, IF that is impossible, you always have the choice to leave. Too many times, I have seen people just give up and not pursue. Sometimes, amazing things happen when people DO speak up and KEEP speaking up!

YES, there are rules and regulations. But when individuals who work for a company are not shown any respect, why should they strive to be loyal and CARE what happens? What a sad turn of events in a workplace!

Finally, I enjoy this site! I laugh, cry and become "involved/concerned" with members who seem to have the same ideals I do. They are like family and when attacked, I will rush to their defense! We don't all agree but that's how we learn, hearing someone else's point of view. Yes, we get angry and state our heated opinions. But there is a BIG difference between attacking an issue and attacking a person.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Bev and all, 

I'm really sorry this has escalated as much as it has I think that there are times when people say things that come out harsh and inappropriate. I'm not defending Warren or trying to speak for him but I think most of us have said things at times that we wish we hadn't. We're only human and unfortunately, we are emotionally driven creatures 

As to the general discussion forum and it's purpose, this forum was meant to be used for other topics that don't fit into the other categories, but STILL relating to pigeons. There are no rules as such stating that we can't talk about other topics but at times, and as this situation proves, it can lead to hurt feelings and disruption of the group. Therefore, we like to keep the O/T discussions to a minimum. Of course there are times when they happen, and most times they are fine. We don't wish to seem unyielding but, just try to keep it toned down a bit about personal issues folks


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What an awful predicament! In the strictest sense, what Warren says is essentially correct in principle. However, from the heart, it seems excessively heavy-handed.

And the dilemma goes to the very core of humanity’s adventure on this earth: how to balance The Rule of Order against Compassion. Some of our greatest books have been written with this as their underlying theme: Victor Hugo’s Les Miserables and Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol to name a few. While a culture cannot do without the one, neither can it long survive without the other. What is needed is a reasonable balance.

Pidgey


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Very dissapointed*

It is always comforting to come to Pigeon Talk to share stories, and to help other members. It has been a stress reliever for me. I certaininly can not talk about pigeons all the time at my work place, because other people are either not as interested or don't care about pigeons. 

Andi came here to release some pressure. I have been guilty of that as well. Last year when I posted that an associate at the office was taking "shots" at my pigeon screensavers, I vented in here...does that make me a whiner too? I suppose it does. 

Accusing Andi of being a thief and a whiner, amongst the other things that were said were totally out of line. 

What makes it even worse is that a moderator on this forum made those harsh and uncaring remarks. Very unprofessional.


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*It's all good I can handle a*

post or two of negative feed back. But warren does not understand maybe,?? here at pigeon talk is where we talk about pigeons yes, we also talk about life with pigeons , around pigeons... My life at work for the past ten years has been taking care of 30 five year old children. During this time with the children myself and another co-worker took care of the wildlife around us. And after ten years of going by rules and polices that never stated we could not feed a bird a cracker. My co-worker never saw me steal a cracker , nor did I steal one. 

FYI - I do have a new job and I will be making twice the money and there are parents coming to me , asking if I will watch their children, so I guess they are knocking down my doors as you say. I have vented here yes regarding my employment and problems ,but it also had to do with pigeon feedings. The people here (friends) are very caring and will give their honest advice. They also have the right to read or not to read my post and reply so if it is old news to you and you do not wish to read it , that is fine.... My family has owned a business in the past, and because of employee theft and workers comp claims my dad could not make the insurance payments and closed his doors, I would never steal anything from a employer , or anyone for that matter. 

On to better things my feathered friends my life is changing for the better and all is good. coo-coo 

Andi


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

andinla said:


> post or two of negative feed back. But warren does not understand maybe,?? here at pigeon talk is where we talk about pigeons yes, we also talk about life with pigeons , around pigeons... My life at work for the past ten years has been taking care of 30 five year old children. During this time with the children myself and another co-worker took care of the wildlife around us. And after ten years of going by rules and polices that never stated we could not feed a bird a cracker. My co-worker never saw me steal a cracker , nor did I steal one.
> 
> FYI - I do have a new job and I will be making twice the money and there are parents coming to me , asking if I will watch their children, so I guess they are knocking down my doors as you say. I have vented here yes regarding my employment and problems ,but it also had to do with pigeon feedings. The people here (friends) are very caring and will give their honest advice. They also have the right to read or not to read my post and reply so if it is old news to you and you do not wish to read it , that is fine.... My family has owned a business in the past, and because of employee theft and workers comp claims my dad could not make the insurance payments and closed his doors, I would never steal anything from a employer , or anyone for that matter.
> 
> ...


 Andi,

If there ever was a post, that I had made, which I could go back and rewrite, it would be the one I wrote recently. 

I did misunderstand some things, such as the taking of crackers. I was under the assumtion that you had in fact taken the crackers, and were upset that the Administration was making such a big deal out of a small theft. 

And the other things I said, in lite of the above, I am afraid came off like a wild eyed monster. I am truly sorry, as my writings blew this out of all reasonable proportion.

I never realized that I was so fast to cast judgement, or throw the first stones. I realize now, I need an attitude adjustment and some much needed soul searching.

My personal lesson here, is even a moderator like myself, will make mistakes. I normally succeed in not making as big of mistakes as this one, but this one has been one of my worst on this forum. I hope Andi, you will understand, that my intentions were not to harm or injure you, even if that was the result, and that you can find it within yourself to forgive me.

Best of wishes on your new endeaver.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

george simon said:


> TO ALL PIGEON-TALK MEMBERS, I hope you will take the time to go to the two sites posted here they are filled with a world of information. The project pigeon watch has answers on things like the west of nile ,on the effect of [WON] on the crows. The classroom feeder watch is a great tool for teaching childern about birds. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME its one way we can get the word out to childern.Maybe I have posted this in the worng place if so I am sorry.But we need to fight the narrow mined people we incounter every day. Keep the fate. GEORGE SIMON


Hi George...MANY THANKS! We all got sidetracked there for awhile but Andi beautifully set us straight. We all knew the truth about Andi and now Warren does too, so all's well.

Yes, PROJECT PIGEON WATCH is a wonderful activity for kids. I became VERY interested in pigeons and sent away for their materials. I learned a lot and their video tape showing the kids and their teachers in action was just great.
One of their publications, BirdScope, even published my story of Peter Pied Piper, the ASU pigeon. Cornell has excellent bird programs and they publish information about all kinds of birds, INCLUDING pigeons...

Thanks for the reminder!  

Andi - when something is meant to be , everything falls into place. You have given a great example of that! Obviously, it was time for you to move on to bigger and better things! I will always be interested in your updates...Congratulations!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Warren, 

I do believe that you've made ammends here. I personally believe that we all make "faux pas" at times but a sincere apology goes a long way


Well done, and Andi...I'm glad you were such a "duck" here. You allowed all that water to roll right off your back without blinking

Let's get past this folks....life is really too short to worry about such things or habour ill will towards each other. We're a very close and small knit group here but we're also a HIGHLY INTELLIGENT and CARING GROUP!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thank you, Warren. That was a very kind and generous statement and I, for one, hold no ill feelings. You make many great posts, particularly in the racing forum, and I have learned a lot from them.

Peace!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Yeah, sure, he sent me a PM telling me he was sorry he "ruffled "my feathers and that he had no empathy for her. Yeah, he is sorry... my tail feathers.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

OK FOLKS, enough! There is no reason to keep this going anymore. 1) Victor, I know that that message Warren sent you was from earlier this morning, BEFORE his apologoy tonight. 

2) Warren publicly apologized to Andi and for everyone to read, accept his sincerity and decency. This is the sign of a stand up person, willing to take the heat for their actions.

3) since Andi herself has let this "slide", then there is absolutely no reason for anyone to get their feathers curled into an irreversible knot. 

Please, let's move onto other things, ok?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ditto to Brad's comments .. I had also just PM'ed Victor that the message he is referring to had to have been sent sometime around 4:33 AM my time this morning .. so it was way before anything else that happened.

Thank you Andi and Warren for burying the hatchet here!

Terry


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I second that. I wish others were as mature as Warren, and able to admit that they misunderstood things!


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I accept your apology*

Everyone has their right to speak their minds. And sometimes we speak when we should not, yes at first I was a little upset, but on the other hand I learned something by your comments.. I learned I can handle it.. I know what took place at my work, and I just figured you were on the wrong thread or something!!??  And if you had been in front of me I possibly would of wing slapped you (just kidding) 

I enjoy this site and feel you guys have helped me out emotionally especially at those times when I brake down from the inhumane treatment of pigeons (animals) being trapped on glued roof tops , shot by teens thinking it's funny to kill a pigeon, being poisoned and slowly dying. I have seen it all and have cried my self to sleep on several occasions. 

Before finding this site I actually thought I was alone in this great big cold world of ours, and often wondered my self why I feel so strongly about the voiceless victims out there. The past few years of being around here on this site and reading and posting, I have come to find I am not alone in this cold world , I found people with hearts of gold , willing to go the distance to help a bird or animal in need of our care. I have learned how to save a bird from this site, I have learned these people really care about each other and what is going on in their lifes regardless if it has anything to do with a pigeon they care about (humans) 

Pigeonlife (talk) Is to me a place to be free, to laugh & cry. To try and help someone who my need advice and hopefully be wise enough to give it. Being able to joke, laugh & cry some more... To solve the mysteries with the (nosey club) To look at pigeon pets of other members, to give a helping hand if it is needed. Pigeon talk has shown me that there are kind people all over this planet and I am not alone....I feel at home here.  So Pidgey pass me the coo-ers!! pleaseeeee


Thank you 
Andi

PS I love you guys victor, bev all the nosey rosey club you know who you are ....................peace , pigeons & people .....


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Well spoken and acknowledged, Andi Tis a great forum we have here and for many reasons...let's cherrish that and keep it precious.

Ok, bedtime over here for this night worker. Be good folks


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Apparantly when a member such as myself reports a "bad post" a copy goes to all the moderators. If the post should happen to be on a moderator, obvoiusly they still get a copy of the complaint, and the party who sent it.
I believe that he sent me the not-so nice private message because he was upset with me. My wife Bev, and others, posted their feelings on how he attacked another member, but Bev did not get subjected to negative private mail as I did. 

But that is ok, I should be "mature like Warren". 

I should just let it go, and I will...now that I have stated my closure on this matter.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Thanks Warren,
> 
> I do believe that you've made ammends here. I personally believe that we all make "faux pas" at times but a sincere apology goes a long way
> 
> ...


Warren, Andi, and all,

I missed most of the excitement, but I believe Brad's post says it all. 

Linda


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Okay folks .. we've got a lot of issues here and I've just answered another PM from a board member .. I'm going to let this thread go until tomorrow morning and then it's done .. so get your comments in tonight. The involved parties have already got their "stuff" together, so let's let this one be done. You all get your "stuff" together about it. Truly, I will close it in the AM.

Terry


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I thought it was already all sorted out quite well. No hurt feelings anywhere at all in the discussions, and amends were made all round. So why shut it down now? Problems should be allowed to work themselves out in the natural way. Moderating is not about controlling or limiting free speech is it?!!!!!!!!

Power is only useful when people know you have it. Useless when you use it. 

*So I am quitting this stupid site! I have had enough of the nonsense*.

And I do not care if any of you say "Good Riddance" or any of the other hurtful things like you said to #9 when she bowed out. I am thicker skinned than that and in any case explosive negativity has little to no effect on me.

And just as one last parting comment. Victor, stop being such a jerk! You might pull in a lot of everyones comments and attract a lot of time on the site but basically, I think you are a nasty person. You are hateful to my friends and not a very nice person all in all. So complain about that and maybe you can get this post deleted.

*Cameron*


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wow, while catcing up, I now read from you, Cameron. I hope you will remain in contact w/me through email, I've come to know you as a warm, loving and altruistic person. I also hope you'll reconsider, as your presence here is usually thought provoking and playful rolled into one.

Andi, I'm so sorry about your job, and grateful that you found new employment.
I'm sure that you will be for ever grateful to walk away from the nonsense. Too much is thrown away in the world, and guarded until destroyed so that no other living thing may benefit from another's 'waste'.
Also, thank you for accepting Warren' s sincere apology. 

Warren, you and I went about it through pm some time ago. I found you to be all at once 'tough' and soft....you seem to let your heart and mind get the better of your 'tough' stance. I know from personal experience that you meant what you said in your apology, and as usual, I was touched by your sincerity.'

fp


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Camrron said:


> And just as one last parting comment. Victor, stop being such a jerk! You might pull in a lot of everyones comments and attract a lot of time on the site but basically, I think you are a nasty person. You are hateful to my friends and not a very nice person all in all. So complain about that and maybe you can get this post deleted.
> 
> *Cameron*


Cameron! I have never personally attacked anyone on this forum.
Now who is calling who what ? Shame on you.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Well shame on you too Victor!

Go re-read your own nasty posts to Phil and others. So don't even bother responding to my letter. You have been very negative in your own way. Throwing your weight around, BS-ing everyone. I don't appreciate it anymore! And I don't want to hear your complaints about my opinion either. I have copies of your negative comments on my computer. Should I post them!

You have some apologizing to do to some other people. Not me!

So save your words for others. 

Cameron


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Camrron said:


> Well shame on you too Victor!
> 
> Go re-read your own nasty posts to Phil and others. So don't even bother responding to my letter. You have been very negative in your own way. Throwing your weight around, BS-ing everyone. I don't appreciate it anymore! And I don't want to hear your complaints about my opinion either. I have copies of your negative comments on my computer. Should I post them!
> 
> ...


Ohhhhh, so that is where you are going with this. Something that occured weeks ago, that I really wanted no part of, and wanted to keep in nice, and private, but the other member expected the CAGE PIGEON debate made public.

That is truly entertaining Cameron, "throwing my weight around".Gosh, I did not realize that I had power in here at all! Now, I have been a City Bus Supervisor since 1990...I don't abuse my title at Metro Area Transit.

I have driven a school bus since 1996, and heck, I don't even take advantage of the situation with children, and you attack me for "throwing my weight around". Cameron, you do not come close to knowing me.

I have no idea about your aledged complaints on your computer. If you would like to post them, please do so.

Cameron, Good grief, what is your problem ?


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Wait a minute this*

should not be like this.. Cameron please do not stop contributing to this site, how did Victor and you end up arguing over any of this... I re-read this thread three times... I got lost ... 

I very much appreciate Victor standing up for me as well as the rest of you, but by no means want this to take place over my cheese and cracker thread, please you guys where has this lead to? Now Cameron is leaving.. This makes me very sad....I care for you all and your experience and in put here. 

I am sorry to you all here on pigeon life-that I created a monster.... 

No where on this site does it say you have to read someone's post and certainly if one thinks it is old news then don't go there, don't reply....Warren does not have to agree with me, or the way I go about my daily life.. He doesn't even really know me...He has a right to post /contribute to these threads as we all do. We are all different and we all contribute to this site in some way or another.. That is what is great about our country is freedom to be you , to be me, and freedom of speech... If we all thought the same thoughts , had the same ideas, this site would be very boring, don't you think.?? 

Please Cameron don't leave , I look forward to your post, and your funny ways...Victor and Bev you both are wonderful and I am sorry this has gotten out of hand...

GROUP HUG EVERYONE PLEASE......................... NO MORE CHEESE COME ON PLEASE...............HUG....

Andi


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

TAWhatley said:


> Geez, Warren .. you were a bit harsh don't you think? I do believe Andi had posted that she already does have another job.
> 
> I suspect you'll be getting lots of responses from members here today.
> 
> Terry


Yes, you _did_ suspect right.

I personally have had enough. I am going to bed now. I for one have to work tomorrow night, and I have my grand kids and pigeons to spend time with in a few hours.I am looking forward to an official closure.Pigeon~Life must go on.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

This is a NIGHTMARE!

But it was also the day that our Lord was betrayed by his friend.

Andi, you had a lot of wonderful, loving people speak in your defense.

I guess we should remember that our Christ had NO ONE.




Best Wishes on Your New Job,
Forever Interested in Your Adventures,

Feather


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Victor and Cameron,

Please don't allow my poor judgement, and some bad timing, to add fuel to any fire here. Victor read a PM which I had written many hours before I saw the errors of my ways. His reaction, thinking I had written that after my public acknowledgement of my mistake, is understandable. 

The problem with a forum such as this, and the Internet in general, and email, is that we all have a tendency to "say" things, we would NEVER say to a person's face. 

I am asking and hoping, that all parties who were negatively affected, take a moment to step back....and take a deep breath. We may not always agree, or even like each other all the time, but in a very real sense, we are all family here. 

I contributed, helped create, or am the cause of, much of this negative energy....if it must be vented, please direct it towards me, and not each other. I would prefer that you lash me in a private message if you must, instead of each other, and hopefully, by the end of this day, we can move on. That is my hope any way.

Everyone please enjoy this week end with family and friends, as fortunately there was a person a long time ago, who gave his life, even for a jerk like me. 

Happy Easter


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Camrron said:


> I thought it was already all sorted out quite well. No hurt feelings anywhere at all in the discussions, and amends were made all round. So why shut it down now? Problems should be allowed to work themselves out in the natural way. *Moderating is not about controlling or limiting free speech is it?!!!!!!*
> 
> *Power is only useful when people know you have it. Useless when you use it*
> 
> ...


Cameron and everyone,

As I said before, I missed most of the excitement on this thread earlier, or so I thought...

First, I am a moderator here, and I'd just like to say that if anyone thinks its always a fun job, please think again. It is definitely NOT enjoyable when having to do your job and try to handle things in a diplomatic way when things like this go on.

Second, I'd like to answer the question in your above post and say that, yes, moderating can be about controlling free speech when members resort to name calling. We are all basically a close and friendly group here, but all of us are not going to agree with each other at all times. If members cannot manage to "agree to disagree" or cannot manage to have a debate like adults, then, yes, a moderator has to step in. If we did not do so, then we are not doing our jobs.

Also, again, though we are mainly a close, friendly group here, there are always going to be some people who may not like each other, or who may have had problems with each other in the past, or in the future for that matter. If problems occur and they are resolved, all parties should then get past it and *move on.* It serves no purpose to hold grudges.


Linda


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Victor and Cameron,
> 
> Please don't allow my poor judgement, and some bad timing, to add fuel to any fire here. Victor read a PM which I had written many hours before I saw the errors of my ways. His reaction, thinking I had written that after my public acknowledgement of my mistake, is understandable.
> 
> ...



I think Warren's *second* apology and sentiments in his above post are a good ending to this thread....

Linda


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