# I found a young Pigeon!??? HELP Please!



## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Regards people,
I am new to this forum, so is the young pigeon which I found today.

He (or she), and I will ask for your help, cause I don't have experience,
I just have parrots in the house.

However, here is the story:

Today, me and my wife rescued one little pigeon from being eaten by one city cat. The pigeon was trying to escape, flying in short sequences low above the ground. Flying few meters is all he is capable (I guess cause it is still baby).
I guess he fell of the nest not so long ago before the cat was there.

Luckily the cat didnt touch him, and also there are no visible injuries.

Now as I said I dont have experience, but I will try to describe how young this bird is:

It has all of its feathers (Complete.)
the growth is "almost" as mature pigeon !
Actually unexperienced person could hardly distinguish this "baby" from grown pigeon.
I was able to tell only by the shape of the beak, and unnoticeable smaller growth.

Its strength is very good actually, legs are strong for jumping, and he also gained strength for clapping wings after we brought it home.

At the moment this guy or girl, is put in a box with a improvised net on top, and we put some unpopped pocorn, some rise, some seeds for budgies and water, (that's all we have in the house, that we can think of - at the moment).

My question is, Will this baby eat by it self at all?? or he still expects his parents to give him food ????? 

Can somebody estimate how old(young) this bird is?

Also I dont know what to do and, should I keep him for some time, and how long? 

What should I do if I see that he will not eat in the morning???
Should I feed him by hand? and with what?

PS: Its 9 PM now in Skopje, Republic of Macedonia the bird is sleeping now, but what should I do in the morning?

Thanks a lot in advance, and sorry for my English.

Hope we can help this bird to be strong enough to survive this stressed situation, get well and be able to join his friends out there in the city skies again.

Dejan


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dejan...thank you for rescuing the pigeon. If it is indeed a baby, you will need to hand feed it until it learns to eat on it's own. Pigeons are supported by their parents with food and taught to eat by the dad.
It would be very helpful if you could post a picture so we can help you determine the age.
I think your English is just fine.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Charis for the quick reply 

Good Idea, 
only I don't know if I should disturb him with the camera now, or to wait for the morning, cause we put the box in a room which is dark, ....I guess he is sleeping,...

Should I disturb the bird's biorhythm ?? and how "dangerous" is this?


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)




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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Here's a link, a just took the photo ( he was a sleep  )

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6524/sdc10720.jpg

Can you tell the age from this picture???


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Looks to be 3 1/2 weeks old. You will need to feed him.
The easiest would be to defrost frozen corn and peas, open the beak and place individual pieces at the very back of the throat. The bird will swallow. You will need to feed 35-40 pieces at each feeding and feed again once the crop has emptied.

In addition, have seed available in a dish more deep than shallow. Before you feed the pigeon, play with the seeds with your fingers and he may just become curious enough to try to pick some up. Even if he does look like he is eating on his own, you will need to continue hand feeding until he is supplying you with plenty of poops each day.

To get him to drink water...gently push the tip of his beak into a deep of water. I push from the back of the head. With luck he will start gulping water. Once they figure out how to drink, eating is not far behind.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Charis,

On what time intervals should I give this 35-40 pieces? How many times in the day?

Will he be very very afraid of this hand feeding, at this age? 
I don't suppose it will become a house pet afterwards?    ???


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to feed him every time his crop empties. Never add more food it there already is food in the crop. Doing so can create a bacterial infection which can be deadly.

He may be afraid of you in the beginning but he will soon learn that you are daddy.

He sure could become a pet and it wouldn't be so bad. Pigeons make wonderful companions. They are very smart and can live to be 20 years.

We are here to help if you need us.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Dejan, the youngster will "let you know" when he or she is done. I would re-feed after a couple or 3 hours. Follow Charis' advice. He will not be afraid of you, as they learn to trust humans especially at such a young age. The pigeon "knows" you are ok and will trust you even more as the days go on. 

As far as a housepet, well, that is up to you. I have 9 pet pigeons and they are a joy to have and be around. You can introduce it to a local pigeon flock after he or she matures a bit more. It is your choice.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8861/sdc10717.jpg


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6804/sdc10723z.jpg


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7294/sdc10718h.jpg


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to get some food into him. What will you call him?


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8480/sdc10719.jpg


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

He didn't eat for quite some time, we found him at 4 PM today, here is 11 pm now ?

Should I wake him up - and feed him now??? 

so it has been 7 hours without food?????????

Should we eat in the morning or immediately now???


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Today on the menu we have the following: 

1. cooked rise without salt (we made this for our budgies today)
2. uncooked rise
3. unpoped popcorn seeds
4. milled grain
5. peas are from the can - (so I dont think so?)
6. barley Flakes 

what will you suggest?

Thanks for being here to all of you!!

PS: the new daddy is a bit excited so - I guess the name will be given at a later time


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you get frozen corn and peas?
Do you have any dry dog food?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

You can just wait till am to feed him, but waking the bird up now will be fine. Ummmm, I noticed white rice spilled on the surface. Pigeons do best with brown rice when they are more mature.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

nope, its midnight here...



> Can you get frozen corn and peas?
> Do you have any dry dog food?


I can get it tomorrow, but for now i think we should try something from the above menu???


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

> Ummmm, I noticed white rice spilled on the surface. Pigeons do best with brown rice when they are more mature.


So you say, white is not good, and for brown rice he is still young ????


Cause we have brown rice at the moment.

We have cooked and not cooked brown rice. ...or none is good?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have applesauce without sugar in it? or...any kind of baby food?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

You are probably sleeping now. Brown uncooked rice is best and loved by most pigeons. I introduced brown rice just a couple of days to my latest young rescue and she loves it. Judging just by your picture, after it eats on its own (maybe a week) I would add a half teaspoon to its mix of food. I noticed the poops are watery, probably from stress and lack of food, so let us work on getting this bird nourished and strong. The poops should look like a _swirl of cookie dough_, green or brown with a bit of white in the center. Please keep us posted in the morning when you and your pigeon wake up and it is fed.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

OK, Here's what happened:

Me and my wife, we made some mix of "Stabilized Wheat Germ", mixed with a little water, so it looked like a sauce. We put this mix into a medical syringe and tried to fed this guy. 

I think he swallowed some of it !!! , but not all trials were successful.

He acted very nervously and didn't wanted to open the beak. Each time we opened the beak with a little force ...he will nervously move the head LEFT RIGHT ....its almost impossible to have him for one second to sit still........otherwise he's ok. 

I hope he will remember that we only wanted to give him food, so in the morning will be easier.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thanks for the help Victor, not sleeping yet.

I am worried cause this didn't go as smooth as I thought it will go.
He acted very impulsive.

Twice I had case like this but with sparrows, they are more easy to handle when it comes to "medical syringe" feeding.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Put the food...little, little bit at a time at the back of the throat. When you have the beak open the back would be at the bottom of the upper beak. Does that make sense?
If you put it there, it will dribble down the throat.
You'll know when he has enough food when his crop fills up and feels squishy and soft. You probably already know but the crop is like a little balloon.The crop is right below the throat.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Judging by the droplets, ...what should I get him from the market tomorrow morning?

what is the best mix for him at this stage?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Frozen corn and frozen peas.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thanks, very much for the help,

see you tomorrow, I'll keep you updated.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Hi Charis, HI Victor,

This morning before I went to market we fed the bird with brown rise, and after that I got frozen pees and corn, and we manage to put 2x 20 seeds in 3 hours intervals.

It looks like he will get used to this. Each time is more easier for all of us 

He drinks water when we put his beak into it. I need one clarification about this =

Is it NOT good to "drown" all of his beak, cause he has nose openings on it???
I am afraid not to suck the water in his lungs??? 

So we put one drop of A+D3 vitamins, we use them for the budgies when needed. I've read on this forum that if the pigeon is not exposed to direct sunlight he will need this vitamins.

We also have multivitamins in powder (for birds like young chickens, which can be mixed with water), but we are not sure if we should give this to this pigeon???

The droplets are very much improved today ) they look like dark green swirl with white in the middle, yet not too dry... 

That's it for now , I'll keep u updated.

Regards

Dejan & Tanja


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

6th time feeding today,....

This youngster is really really wild!!

its almost impossible to hold him still with the beak open long enough to put a seed in it.

We are somehow managing for now cause I am holding him in a towel and Tanja, my wife is putting seeds into his throat, but tomorrow I need to go to work, and Tanja is going to try to feed him by her self.

We dont know if its going to be possible.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Dejan.

Are you defrosting the peas and corn in hot water and serving them warm? Pigeons prefer them that way.

This is a link to a video of a pigeon being hand fed. Wrapping them in a towel can help when the pigeon is inclined to struggle and there is only one person doing the feeding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Just dip the tip of his beak in the water, leave the nostrils clear. He should learn where the water is very quickly and then he will drink on his own.

Scatter some budgie seed around him, this will help him learn to pick seed up. Then he can progress to pigeon seed or dove seed (if you can find it) or to mixed corn or wild bird mix.

Cynthia


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Good day to you Dejan and Tanja, Glad that you got the corn and peas. You can probably hold back on the brown rice for a few days though. 

You are right in insuring his nostrils don't get covered in water. You may want to try swirling your fingers in water so he can see this action, He should pick up on this and begin drinking on his own, and before you realize it, he may try to stuff his body in the water dish to bathe...they can be so funny.Cynthia has given you some great advice on the feeding of the little one.

Sunlight is really the best source and even having the bird by a window pane is not as effective as the real beam of sun rays. Can you expose the pigeon outdoors even for just a half an hour to one hour?The vitamin supplement will do fine, but again the real thing is best if you can.

I would not worry about the chicken vitas...put it away!

Good job monitoring the poops. I look at mine everyday....ummmm, I mean my pigeons. There is still a chance your birds droplets are still on the wet side, correct?

Take one day at a time, and I am sure Tanja will be just fine. Thanks for your efforts and keep us updated as you have been.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks for your reply. Nice video... Ummm,.. can we swap this bird with that one 

That is idyllic atmosphere there, but what we have here is really wild young boy (I think its male) who is struggling *on each* opening of the beak, and there is a point where he wont cooperate any more, ...and that happens after the 10th seed, which is not enough, to leave him hungry like that.   

He is really pushing with his legs, trying to escape, moves his head left right ....uh!!


Yep, we defrost the pees and corn, they are at room temperature when feeding.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Try warming the peas and corn up a bit higher than room temperature..let them stand in warm water for a while. If he has not yet learnt to eat then his parents would still be crop feeding him and the food - even seed soaked in water in the crop - would be about 39 degrees celcius.

I have been hand feeding a wood pigeon peas and corn and believe me they are almost the most difficult pigeon to hand feed...only the collared dove, which must be the squirmiest of the pigeon family, is worse. But if a pigeon is hungry and it likes the food that he is being fed, then he will temporarily become more passive while he is being fed.

Cynthia


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

That's interesting, then we'll make sure that they are at least 39 degrees.
Thanks a lot. I know he does not like *the way* we feed him, but at least we can give our best to like *what* he eats. 

Here is 20 min. past midnight, he eat 10 minutes ago, 
I guess that's it for today? what do you think???

Oh ... and I just checked, the poops are just fine now, not too watery 
not at all actually. 

.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Dejan said:


> Here is 20 min. past midnight, he eat 10 minutes ago,
> I guess that's it for today? what do you think???
> 
> 
> ...


That is it! Let him rest...as well as you.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Good afternoon everyone,

today Tanja went well with the hand feeding by her self. But I must say that the little birdie was behaving just fine  

I'm sure worming the pees and corn was the act that made peace between us   ....thanks Cynthia

I just hope he'll start to realize more and more that we mean no harm. 

OK..except that - no big changes, only I would want to ask if we need to change his menu - cause its the same ...pees and corn...pees and corn, corn and pees, and then at the end..... water with pees and corn. 

?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Well, you can add some lentils, barley, rye berries.
Pet stores do sell Kaytee Supreme for pigeons and doves. I buy that and add the peas, corn, lentils, blarley etc.
Soon he will start eating on his own and he will need more variety.

Reti


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Reti,

We will try that immediately.

However, I've noticed that the bird is still skinny, the crop is not yet noticable when you look at the bird from a side. Only after feeding I can feel the seeds by touching its crop.

He is still too nervous after 20 pcs. of corn and/or pees, so we can not give him more then 20-25, on every 3 hours, except after midnight, when we all sleep.

Should we add something "special" to boost his weight???


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Dejan.........If there is any way you can locate some baby bird formula where you are located it would be good to add some to his diet. The nutritional ingredients in the formula will cover his needs and will aid in putting some weight on him fairly quickly. 
Also if you use a syringe or eyedropper method you will get alot more nutrition into him with a lot less effort. Do not stop the peas and corn, but he won't need as many of them.

You are doing a great job with this little one. Thanks so much for caring for him.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Thank you lwerden,

Well...I plan to go search for that kind of food first thing in the morning. (that's in few hours here)

My Big problem is that here, for birds, there is really no specialized vets.
I know this cause I keep parrots all the time, and it drives me crazy when I am forced to go to ask for their help, cause unfortunately they are just not into birds.

I am not sure about the food, maybe they have something on stock, but if I cant find it, I will have to ask you to read the ingredients from the box(or bag) you have there, and we will try to "cook" some if needed. 

...we'll see

Thanks for your help and time, I know you don't have much time - I've read your posts, you're pretty busy there with those 4 guys  

I see your little friend gained weight, ... sweet!! I hope we'll have such result with this one.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Dejan said:


> However, I've noticed that the bird is still skinny,
> 
> 
> 
> Should we add something "special" to boost his weight???


It will take at least another week before you see any weight gain.

You can get some *raw unsalted shelled sunflower seeds*. They will add weight, but don't give him too much. I give this sparingly as a special treat and do feed this to my crew more so in the winter as well as yellow popcorn. 

you two are doing a fine job. I look forward to the up-dates.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Good afternoon people,

Today our friend was just fine, it looks to me that he gained some strength cause he started squeaking a little. This is when we try to take him in a hand in order to put him in a towel, and also a bit more when he is released back in his box. 

Maybe its just me, but I think the feathers are different quality today, (I haven't seen him all day cause I am at work, and of course Tanja is feeding him on every 3 hours)....so I wanted to say I am more able to notice any differences. 

I tried to find some food, but no luck today, the vets have only 15kg bag paks, which is for adult pigeons anyway...no special ingredients.

But today we fed him with, = Lentils, Corn, Pees, Rye Berries, a little bit of standard low fat biscuits, mineral food(a little cause its like sand) just for better food processing. 

Still no visible crop. The poops are fine and all over the place 

I have one question:

Some guy advised me that from time to time I need to try to make him to flap his wings. And in order not to fly all over the place (this is not the problem, but if he ends behind the refrigerator or so...there will be problems)...so ..I can hold his legs while he clap the wings(I know he will start immediately)...so it will be like dummy flying ( i cant think of the right word).

Anyway I am very afraid of hurting his legs this way!! 

Can you confirm this my friends?

Thanks for your time and warm regards from the 3 of us.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I wouldn't hold his legs, they could get hurt.

Cynthia


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Yep sounds weird to me too, I just needed second opinion.

Thanks, we wont do it then.

...Then I got to find a way to give him more space, and not to make a mess in same time, or hide behind furniture...  hmmmm??...


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Do not hold his legs you could injure him. It is important at this age, if he is ever going to be able to fly that he exercise and build up the wing muscles. The best way I have found to do this is to sit yourself down in a chair, put him on your forearm. Move your arm in an up and down motion slowly. He will flap his wings, and when the feathers are developed enough he will start to get some lift. For the first few times he will gently fall to the floor, using his wings to slow his decent to the floor. As time goes by he will gradualy start flying more upward then downward. I suggest you do this in a room where there are the least amount of hazzards. Try the bathroom, it is small and confined and very few places that he can get injured or make it hard for you to recapture him.

You are doing such a great job with him. I am sure he will progress fine.


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Hi everyone,

We've been quiet these few days, but just because of other obligations, I haven't find time to write, but we're all doing fine.

Our little friend has been busy too. The day before yesterday we were out for little shopping, (basic supplies and stuff) and when we got back we found an empty box!  

Our little friend managed to sneak out (somehow), and he made a nice "room tour".
It took almost 1 long minute for us to actually "find him" sitting still like a statue by the window, enjoying the view 

So from then on, he is getting his 5 minutes flying around (until his batteries are dried, and starts to search for a place to hide in) 

We're eating various seeds now, all in all 40 seeds 4 times a day.

Still have to wrap him in a towel and almost cover his eyes with it, in order to sit still when feeding.

His flying abilities are... (well he can reach the top place for hanging in the room starting from floor, and that is 2,3meters- no problems)

The problem is - we haven't seen him eating on its own, not even trying!?
I wonder when will this happen or IF ...???

Otherwise we found one person who is a vet, and he suggested some mix with TAURINE, and Calcium. It can be found in pet stores, but ....what is your opinion about this????


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Dejan said:


> The problem is - we haven't seen him eating on its own, not even trying!?
> I wonder when will this happen or IF ...???
> 
> Otherwise we found one person who is a vet, and he suggested some mix with TAURINE, and Calcium. It can be found in pet stores, but ....what is your opinion about this????


The self feeding will happen soon .. just keep up the good work.

What's the brand name of the pet store product? I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying this, but cat food (which contains TAURINE) is the basis of many bird feeding formulas, thus, it's probably OK, but if you can post the name of the product, then we can figure it out for sure.

Terry


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## Dejan (May 2, 2009)

Ingrediants are: yeast,lactose,lecithin 1.0%,calcium lactate,calciumstearate,salmon 1.0%,taurin 20000mg/kg.

Natural ingrediants contain vitamins B1,B2,B6,B12.

Analysis: crude protein 26.4%, crude fibre 0.6%, ash 3.7%, crude fat 4.5%

The product is in pills shape, and the vet said, one a day. (the dosage for kittens is 5 pills a day)

That's it.


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