# Young bird ash red?



## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

One of my early young birds parents both ash reds. Nest mate was a blue bar so I am guessing the father is heterozygous. The young bird in the pictures does not have the red neck of the parents and is much lighter in color. No black splashes so I am guessing it is either homozygous if male or a female. Is it's color still considered an ash red?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

All you say is correct, This bird is ash red bar, cockbird split for blue and the blue nestmate is a hen.

This one may develop flecks when it moults but usually some small ones are visible at this stage. It will also darken up but ash red bar birds do vary a lot in neck colour. So yeah, could be a hen, Could be a homozygous red cock or could develop flecks in its moult, But atleast you know the nestmates a hen, Thats more certainties than most have.

Both the ash reds are bar are they? If so all you will get is bars.

EDIT TO ADD: I thought we had already answered the first question and had moved onto the second one with my percentages below. But Tmass is right, The first pair in question would ofcourse produce homozygous ash red cocks.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

Could you please pics of both parents as well.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes it is still an ash-red bar. The amounts of red on the head and neck in homers vary a lot. Some have a normal amount, some extra, some with no red on the neck (many call these "silvers" although that is incorrect and misleading). This bird is also sooty.


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## surkha (Feb 21, 2013)

*How to get Red Ash Bar silver*

I am new to this forum and know very little about pigeon colors and genetics.I am eager to learn about the colors and want to breed Ash red bars Icy effect same as in pic attached.Please let me know what color hen and cock i need to achieve this. http://www.skylakesions.com/ I am talking about the second bird in the middle on top line of this link.Please attach the pics of hen and cock i need th get desired results.I will be very greatful to you.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I have yet to hear if there is a specific gene that causes that effect on ash-red bars. There are genes that cause a similar effect (faded, cherry, the powdered show homers) but those are not the case in the sions. Your best bet would be to get the lightest colored ash-reds you can find and mate them together, and selectively breed the red out of the neck.


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

Surkha I will try to get some pics of the parents. They are sitting on 2nd round eggs.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Thats a beautiful bird. I have a HUGE soft spot for pigeons with red...actually a PT member Pigeonss I think has a very young pair of red nest mates for sale who should probably just be learning to fly. Great blood, pedigree too. Bout $135 with pedigree shipping and box included. Check out the thread I made Red Homers Wanted and check em out. I was gonna get em buy hey, id rather have my car than new birds


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

*Surkha pics of ash reds*








Cock you can see the ink splashes on the tail.







Hen







Hen and 2013YB


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## RogerD (Jul 12, 2012)

Mary here is a question for you. I have some ash red cocks paired with blue bar hens. So far they have produced only blue birds. I am thinking if they are cocks they may carry the ash red. Is there any sex linked male or female? Everything I have read has been with red to red not red to blue.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Roger, your blue offspring from an ash red parent have no ash red in them. Ash is dominant, so if a bird isn't expressing ash then ash is not present in the bird, irrelevant to sex. Sex linkage with ash only plays out when you mate a blue cock to an ash hen, from which all ash offspring will be cocks and blues will be hens or if you mate a het. ash cock to an ash hen then all cocks will be ash (50% het. ash) and half of the hens will be ash with the other half blue.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Roger, your cock bird pictured is het. ash, so you may also get some blue daughter from the pair, and he is sooty, explaining the sooty youngster. The hen pictured looks like it may be smokey because the its beak looks light horn color and its feather coloration looks darker than ash alone. I also have come to think that smokey encourages the expression of a third wing bar, which she has.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The pattern is not very smugded and ash red birds often have ivory beaks, You could be right ofcourse but I do not think this bird is smoky

Roger - This pairing should produce

25% ash red cocks carrying blue
25% ash red hens
25% blue cocks
25% blue hens.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Evan, you may be correct about the hen not being smokey, I agree that the bar definition is pretty good.

Roger, the progeny color results from het. ash cock mated to ash hen will be
25% ash red cocks carrying blue
25% ash red cocks pure for ash red
25% ash red hens
25% blue hens


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry I thought the pair involved a blue hen?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

RogerD said:


> Mary here is a question for you. *I have some ash red cocks paired with blue bar hens. So far they have produced only blue birds. I am thinking if they are cocks they may carry the ash red*. Is there any sex linked male or female? Everything I have read has been with red to red not red to blue.



Are you referring this this question?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> Evan, you may be correct about the hen not being smokey, I agree that the bar definition is pretty good.
> 
> The progeny color results from this pair will actually be
> 25% ash red cocks carrying blue
> ...


I am pretty certain any pair involving a blue hen will cause all cocks that are ash red to carry blue.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Tmass, You didn't need to edit your post, You were giving the results for the first pair, I gave results for the second. When you told me I was wrong you were clearly confused as to which pair I was referring to as Both our posts are correct.


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