# BIG confusion....



## threasha (Mar 25, 2007)

Running into a dilemma.. I have been researching into the "big" pigeons and I am finding some conflicting info with regards to Kings and homers..

Some say that KINGS are just giant white homers and can be shown as such... other sources indicate they are a seperate breed with a common homer ancestor...and that Texans are just auto sexing kings... Are they all the same breed? what gives???? 

I have a white king cock, and I want to get him a hen (he likes my bantam silkie, but..he's not her type lol.) I would like to get a Texas Pioneer hen mostly because I LOVE red birds, but also I was hoping that I would be able to auto sex the babies. Would I be able to get the auto sex trait with this cross??

Other problem, I can't find ANY ONE out here that raise Kings, giant homers, or Texans. I have found Moundanes (spelling) but I have heard that they don't take the heat very well/ are delicate. I'm not up for that challenge yet lol. Right now "billy" just needs a girl his size and with similar intrests... 

But eventually I would like to be able to show my birds. And What i get will be the direction i go since i dont have a super huge loft.. KIngs & Texans are what I really want to do.. Mostly because they are so darn hard to find! And because "billy" is so much more friendly than my homers!

But the genetics between the three is what throws me. :/


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

All the breeds you mentioned have their own separate show standard to breed too, as set out by the National Pigeon Assoc. If you wish to show them the NPA breed standard is what they are judged by, crossing other breeds into them would make it hard to show them as such. Show Kings come in all colours not just white, red Show Kings are fairly common. I have listed below the respective breed clubs that you could contact for more info and who to contact to obtain birds in your area. Good Luck.

regards Gordon
.....

http://www.npausa.com/

http://americankingclub.org/

http://www.americangianthomers.com/

http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/texanpioneer/index.html

http://frenchmondainpigeon.com/

http://www.angelfire.com/my/carneau/carneau.html


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Oh jeez. Not everything that looks like a normal not fancy pigeon, is just a homer in different sizes LOL.


All of them are separate breeds as mentioned above. Kings come in two forms - Utility Kings and Show Kings. Utility Kings are more normal looking and large, bred for consumption. Show Kings are large as well but have taken on a more Modena-like look. Texan Auto-Sexing Pioneers are another utility breed that is also shown, a "dual purpose" breed. 

I do know that Utility Kings did have a little bit of homer mixed in to get the size and shape people wanted, but that was a long time ago. None of the breeds mentioned might as well even be related to homing pigeons anymore. Even the Giant Homers, although a "homer", cannot home. It's been turned into a show breed now, although it was useful for squabbing at one point.

The auto-sexing trait in Texans is called faded. It is a dominant, sex-linked trait. The reason it is auto-sexing is because the cockbirds are lighter in color than the hens, thus they can automatically be sexed once they get their feathers in. It works best when you have two faded birds mated together because the homozygous cockbirds are the lightest, while heterozygous cockbirds are a little darker (but still not AS dark (normal colored) as the hens). So if you get a Texan pioneer hen for him, it will still work in that the cockbirds will be a bit lighter than the hens. However, we don't know what is hiding under the white of your bird. So there's no telling what colors the babies will come out as. But you (or I) should still be able to tell which ones are faded and which are not.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Since you like red pigeons, check out red Carneau pigeons. They are another utility/show breed similar to Kings.


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