# New parents fighting viciously



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona Jr, an obvious male, and Buzzy, who just laid her first egg, are biting each other viciously. Buzzy wing slaps Fiona Jr too. I swapped out the real for a fake egg but they were already fighting. I put in some alfalfa grass and torn newspaper. Fiona Jr doesn't get sitting on the egg. Buzzy gently put the egg underneath her so I think she gets the hard wired behavior. But Fiona Jr just wants to make a pest of himself and mate. Should I separate them or hope they will calm down? Add a wooden nest box for Buzzy to hide/nest in? Or?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am still hoping to hear whether others have encountered this kind of behavior. Do young pigeons act this way? Am concerned about Buzzy not laying her second egg and getting egg bound from all the harrassment from Blue.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I too have observed similar behavior like what you are facing now. My pigeon whom I posted for adoption was a mate of a male pigeon who recovered from PMV. Both of them do that mating stuff and soon after, he would bite her off. He would do a different "dance" this time and she would run away. I didn't really understand why they do this. They sit together and cuddle each other but after some time the male would literally bite her so much that she lost feathers. He even pulled off her fresh feathers causing bleeding.I got fed up with this and I let him out. Now she is kind of happy even without him but I don't know about Buzzy because she laid an egg and then they are fighting
I guess if buzzy gets stressed she might have to face an egg bound. I never breaded pigeons before so, I don't know much on this.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Cocks ususally "drive" the hens, some pretty hard, from mating until the first egg is laid. They usually back off once incubation starts. If this is their first nest he may not get it perfect quite yet but they should both figure it out soon. Is it possible she accepts the fake eggs but he doesn't? How long since the egg was laid (the second egg is laid earlier in the afternoon two days after, but occasionally there is only one egg). They usually sit tighter after the second egg is laid. If it is past the time she should lay, and you are replacing with fake eggs anyway, it probably would not hurt to add the second fake. Also let them choose the nesting area and nesting material etc. Don't move the nest or disturb it much once they lay. If you try to add a lot of stuff it may look totally different too them and they may abandon it anyway. Give them a nice secure box in which to build their nest in the future. They like it somewhat private and dark where they are nesting, ideally. I would not separate them unless there is real damage being done, and even then I would try to keep them together but perhaps with cage bars in between them, but best to leave them together assuming she has space to escape (e.g. not confined in a small cage where she can not fly away) unless he is doing real damage.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks, Rosequartz and Woodnative. Will get them a nest box today. They stopped bickering and biting each other long enough to eat. Buzzy isn't missing feathers but Fiona Jr is still coming on too strong. Will put in a second fake egg if she doesn't lay by tomorrow.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Don't move this nest into a nest box though, best not to disturb the existing nest as long as they are using it. Once they give up on this set of eggs and start nesting again give them the box as a choice.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I use a piece of slate on a couple of bricks for mine and both pairs have nested in them. It gives the female a means of escape from a nuisance male too - my tumbler male can be a pain at times but once Grace goes into the nest he leaves her alone. Although that's him on the nest there.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am concerned because Buzzy wouldn't come down off the perch to eat this morning and seemed distressed by Fiona Jrs constant showing off. So I put Fiona Jr in an old cage next to her. He is not pleased. Am waiting to see if she will come down and eat and hopefully lay her second egg. There are two fake eggs in the nest but she is ignoring them. After she lays her second egg, I will return Fiona Jr.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They need more room where she can fly away from him. In a cage, even a good sized one, she is trapped.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Buzzy laid her second egg. Will swap it for a fake one and consider whether to put Fiona Jr back. Maybe i should relocate Buzzy with the other girls, Lucy and Tracy, in amuch larger cage.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They may not want to share their cage with a third bird.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Tried to put Fiona Jr back with Buzzy but they fought rather viciously again. So put him back alone for the night. They are in adjoining cages so can see each other. Tried putting in first a nest box and later a nest dish instead for Buzzy but each time she bit and wing slapped each. And bit and wing slapped me. Tried moving Buzzy and her fake...dont tell her please...eggs into the larger flight cage with Tracy and Lucy and everyone got along immediately. No drama. But Buzzy flew back into her own smaller cage, so i put her eggs back with her for the night. Hope i can figure out a more permanent arrangement tomorrow. Isnt there something i can put in Fiona Jrs food to mellow him out and get him past the frantic adolescent stage? The pigeon dramas are exhausting.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster, I know you don't want to hear it, and please don't get mad at me, but the reason you are having more problems is because they can't act normally when confined to cages, and just let out for exercise. If in a loft environment, they could live more normally. They could move around, get away from each other, and not be so bored. I can't imagine just sitting in a cage all day, regardless of the size of the cage. They can't do much, and they get bored. It just isn't normal for them to live that way, and I'm sure causes them stress. Again, please don't be upset with me, but that is what they need.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't know how you manage with them in cages once they've laid eggs cwebster because my little imps won't poop at all in their cages, or anywhere near their nests. I've found both the tumbler and feral pair won't poop until I let them out and tbh it was a real pain because I'd been letting them out at different times due to the males squabbling. Jay suggested I intergrate them now before they go into the aviary in the spring and after a few scraps and chase flights the boys are sorting things out and are beginning to settle down. I don't know your set up but perhaps letting them all intergrate together might put the bully in his place because it's definitely worked with my tumbler male - he used to be a pain to the ferals and his little wifey but Gids and Gabe have put a stop to that. They managed to do what I failed at, lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm so glad they are working things out. They usually do. They are going to love the aviary this spring. You'll see.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes thanks for the advice Jay, I don't interfere unless they start squaring up to each other but I let them chase because they sort it out themselves that way and the feisty little tumbler needed taking down a peg or two. Was so nice having them out together today and even when Grace made an appearance Gids and Gabe left her alone, I thought they must know she's paired now - I'm constantly impressed with my ferals and they even know their names, I just adore them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

After flying around the shed, Buzzy and Fiona Jr are back together...I hope. Will check on them in a while and will hope for no bloodshed. It is dark so hopefully they will calm down now. If they dont start getting along i may have to rehome them. With my lung problems, it is not good for me to get pigeon scuff in my hair. The mask doesnt prevent that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope it all goes well.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you. Checked on Buzzy and Fiona Jr...Buzzy was sitting happily on her eggs and Fiona Jr was up on a perch. So at least at night they get along ok. May have to separate them during the day if Fiona Jr doesnt start calming down though. Blue gets excited but has mellowed over time and sits on the fake eggs with Fiona and is attentive and sweet to her. Hope Fiona Jr gets to be more like his dad.


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