# Baby dove- where to from here?



## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Hi everyone 

Last weekend while I was meant to be working with one of my horses a baby dove managed to fly into the mirrors around the outdoor. I went over and scooped her (?) up so the dogs wouldn't eat her and she was obviously in shock, so I took her into the barn, sat her in my cap and put the cap in a milkcrate while I dealt with the feral (the horse I mean). 

Afterwards I noticed that not only was she in shock, but she was bleeding from the mouth too, so not being very hopeful I put her in the car and took her home, since I wasn't sure of the extent of her injuries.

Well, the cute little thing pulled through  Her beak is on a little crooked (I'm guessing that's what the blood was from), but other than that she seems fine and has been squeaking and wandering around when I let her.

My problem though is that she appears to be losing weight instead of gaining it. In the evening, when she seemed recovered I offered her millet sprays, budgie mix (only thing I really had small enough, pigeon mix looked too big), powdered Crumbles, then damp egg and biscuit, grass, and grass seeds. I haven't seen her eat any yet, but she's stabbed. After the first evening I figured I'd better rehydrate her anyway so made some dilute rearing mix and syringed 0.5/mL of that. She really is only small, from head to tail about as long as my hand (and I have small girly hands) and I don't know what species she is.

From then on, every 3 hours during the day I've been syringing 2mL into her and she's pooping regularly and is very active, preening and hopping around.

Since she's so small (about the size of a large budgie) I don't know if I should be feeding her at all (since she's had her first flight... sorta) or how much.

I'll get pictures when I get the camera, but any insight appreciated  Am I feeding too much, too little?

Oh- and I've only ever reared cropless birds before- mynahs- so really don't know what/where the crop is or how much to fill it, especially since she's feathered except for the bald tummy but I'm very good at not aspirating babies. I know that mynahs still need to be fed after fledging, but not sure what the go is with doves. My pigeon I found as a juvenile, so all the hard work had been done.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 



Oye...


Well, if she broke her Beak or cracked something at the root ( upper? or Lower Beak was bleeding, or seems crooked?) it would make it possibly very hard for her to eat, assuming she knew how and had gained in her experience since fledging...where, as you may know, after they are flying decently, mom and dad still feed them for some time, till the youngster gets the knack themselves for pecking and grazing and so on...


So, any use of force ( even the smallest amount ) to open her Beak, in order to tube-feed her, would be injuring it further, or, interfering with it's healing...and, ideally, it should be 'set' in some gentle manner, so it is rightly aligned, in order for it, and her future pecking potentials, to be as best they can be.

This might not be easy to achieve...


If she is willing to 'nuzzle' your fingers, in asking to be fed, I can explain some safe methods which would allow her to feed, and which would not strain her Beak, or, require any use of force or manual Beak opening...but, she has to be asking for you to feed her, for this to work...


Any 'yellow' in her Poops/Urates?


If you can keep her on a White Towell, it will be easy to see, count, and evaluate the poops...in a Box even, with a soft cloth over the top...


Tepid Water would most likely be best for her drinking occasions, if she is indeed young, and keeping her hydrated...

She is dinking as active agent, if Water is presented to her Beak?

Their Crop is above their Keel, at the front of course, centered,and,below their Throat...so, in effect, the 'front' of the Dove, is where their Crop is.


Do post some images if you can?


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks Phil!

I'll try and describe her beak until I can get pictures and see what people think. It just looks like instead of the upper and lower bills mirroring each other, when looked at from above one is set more to one side than the other. Her mouth still closes, but the outlines just don't *quite* match up, if that makes sense. They're only off by maybe half a mm. I'm getting the camera this evening, so will post pictures then. I tried to see if it would move back when I first discovered it a few hours after the accident after she'd stopped bleeding and was moving around again but it didn't seem to want to. I couldn't see where the blood was coming from and it didn't drip out of her mouth but you could see that her mouth was filling with blood, she'd swallow and a short time later it would be back again. I was freaking out thinking she'd done her internals so to find out that it was (as far as I can tell) just her beak was quite comforting.

I've seen her yawn, preen and chirp so I don't know that it hurts her but if it was injured in the accident then it probably would. There wasn't much blood, so it would make sense that it was just from rearranging her beak, luckily. She just doesn't seem to know what to do with food yet. Today I watched her trying to eat seed by stabbing it with her mouth closed, then opening her beak as she lifted her head up- sorta like a reverse peck  so perhaps she's getting the idea after all... slowly. She's also been moving things AROUND- just not eating on her own (I have nothing better to do than birdsit all day lol!). She's still very soft around the base of the beak, so I really was hoping it could be manipulated back, but no luck.

I tried to get Fluffypants, my pigeon to demonstrate the concept (from another cage) but she was too busy staring at the little one to eat anything. My pigeon thinks she's a person so was quite unsettled by seeing another bird and had an attack of the shakes (she's a very special bird, scared of everything but me).

She doesn't nuzzle to be fed, but when she's hungry she starts chirping and climbs on top of her cage and stares at me pointedly. I take her out, sit her on my knee and hold the base of her beak with one hand and she opens wide to be fed.

Droppings are fine, clear distinction between solids and liquids and no discoloration of the urine. A little wet, but considering what I've been feeding her that's not surprising.

I have seen her drink, however (yay!). 

Ah, ABOVE the keel, gotcha. I kept reading everywhere, the front of the bird and only feeling keel lol. I found it on her (easy when I knew where to look  ) and am now using that as a guide as to how much to feed. She managed 5mL a few minutes ago  Such capacity for such a tiny bird! No wonder the poor dear wasn't putting any weight on! I feel like such a bad caretaker  but at least I know better now. I'll also use it being empty as an indication of when to feed next unless she's cheeping beforehand.

I had a feel around and I don't feel any seed-like things in there so I'm guessing she hasn't been eating that I've missed.

Is there any way to encourage her to nuzzle instead of opening her beak? I just don't want her to hurt it further.

Thanks again for your help!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

hi bystader, 


This does not sound like the Doves I know...


Are you quite sure this is in fact a Dove?


Where are you ?


And, could you consult some fast 'goole searches for "Birds of _____" your region, and see what species this is?



Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm fairly sure.

I'm in Australia, so we might have different species?

She's dove-like, at the very least lol! When my camera rocks up I'll get some pics.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander,


Baby/Juvenile/youngster Doves, feed by inserting their Beak into the Throat of their parent, and, 'gobble' fod which the parent brings up for them from their Crop.


All in all, Doves do not 'gape' as Songbirds do, when wishing or asking to be fed.

If the Dove is not afraid or intimidated or too confused, one can invite them to accept one's interest to feed them by softly massaging their Beak, on the sides and root area, with one;s slightly moist warm finger tips...and, if the young Dove accepts the invitation, they will 'nuzzle', which is to say, they will probe one's fingers wiht their Beak...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...some images and captions/texts of a Baby Dove, and a method of feeding them -


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


This was a pre-fledgling...but, this is a very good method for them to eat and be fed...


Fledglings ( those who are flying, but not yet self-feeding ) usually require particular gentleness and positive direct gestures to make the 'deal' for them to accept being fed...

If the Bird you have is opening their Beak and 'chirping' ( unless it is opening their Beak form the injury hurting) it is not a Dove, but a Song Bird of some sort...


A Dove, if it were asking to be fed, would slightly pump it's shoulders, and faintly 'peep' or 'squeak' softly...and would be searching for a parent's Mouth, or somehting like one, with it's Beak, n order to put it's beak into it, to be fed...


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh no- I don't think I've been particularly clear  Sorry. She doesn't chirp with her mouth open, she sort of sqeaks and is quiet for a while and squeaks again- more like a squeaky whistle than anthything. No gaping at all, and it's a relief to know that they don't (if she is a dove, anyway) because truth be told I was worried about that 

This morning she was gently pecking at my hand- could this be nuzzling? No noise at the time though.

Snapped this on the camera phone- not the best or the clearest, and it was ten thirty at night and she was half asleep (I was operating as a water bottle at the time, she got a bit cool) but it might be an indication of what she is?










You can also sort of see how her beak isn't on quite straight. She's fluffed up and at a funny angle here so looks a lot bigger than she really is too.


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Wow those pictures are awesome! I'll try something like that next time, will have to find something like a nipple. Maybe an eye dropper top?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It is some sort of Aussie dove, similar to our Mourning Doves. What a cute little thing. Keep her warm and comfy and you can continue feeding her as s/he seems to be quite a baby still and might not know how to eat on her own. 
I can't really tell about the beak, not too clear in the pic, but when she calms down in between feeding you can try to align her beak with some tape or a rubber band at the tip. She might not like it though and try to get it off.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 



Yes, you have a fledgling Dove there...


The 'Nipple' ( or 'Teat' ) might be a good deal for her, since she can in effect 'drink' her formula-foods, and not strain the injury while it heals...


I have to run now, but you want the formula to be watery, fine textured, and of course nutritious...

Very small whole Seeds might be worth getting also, a.s.a.p., such as Finch Seed or Canary Seed.


Baby Bird formula powders are usually sold at Pet Supply Stores, so check your phone book...

Easy to make from scratch also, more on that later when I get back...gotta run now..

Best wishes!


Keep her warm...she is not feeling well...


Let us know the color and consistancy of the poops so far?


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

I managed to take these today, does she look any better? She really likes sitting in the sun, I guess it's warmer than the heater. She fluffs up again in the shade, but not as much as last night when it got cold quite fast.


































Some I put in because it's easier to see the beak issue. Couldn't get any from directly in front, she kept moving.

So far poops have greeny solid, but are moist.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

What a sweetheart. It is a dove, though not quite like our mourning doves are here in the states. I can't really see the problem with the beak but it looks almost as if her "milk tooth" is still at the end of the beak. Since it is summer where you are, she may not be very old - particularly if she is still "whistling".

I hope that the damage to the beak is only temporary and that it may realign on its own. Poor baby, she must have hit head on.

Be sure to keep her warm. That is really important. In a pinch, you can soak good quality small dog food pellets until soft but not mushy, break into halves or quarters, open her beak and place the pieces toward the back of her mouth until she swallows. You can gently rub her throat to help it go down easily. 

Thank you so very much for rescuing her.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

She is so adorable. Absolutely, she looks much better than in the first pic. Keep her warm if that is what she likes, she is still a baby.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

bystander said:


> So far poops have greeny solid, but are moist.




Hi bystander, 


You should be seeing about 1/3rd "White" Urates, along wiht the 'poop' portion proper...


Probably she would drink more if the Water is offered at close to Body Temperature...even dissolve say a good pinch of common Salt, and one of Sugar, into a Tea Cup full...and encourage her to be drinking a lot more...


She seems very much at ease!


Mourning Doves ( a different species of Dove from the one you have ) are notoriously 'skittish' and flighty, even at that young age...and can be pretty hard to win over sometimes...far as them letting one feed and Water them.


She is very pretty..! And will be a LOT bigger once grown up..!


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 



Her left Wing seems to show some broken-off and missing Primary Feathers.


Look cosely at this where these feathers would be growing from, the skin and flesh there of her 'arm', and see if there is any sign of injury there...and little scabs or tiny 'bites' or anything.


Anyway, I am thinking the Beak will be fine...likely has some swelling for the time being on one side of the actual Jaw Hinge...and in a few days will be back in align on it's own...but mean-time do be EXTRA sensitive and gentle with that Beak so it's healing can proceed without further strains or troubles.


If she is willing to eat from the ( trimmed off flange version as shown in the images of ) 'Nip ple' or 'Teat' it will have to taste good to her, or she will merely shake her head and refuse it.


Try this - moisten your finger tips in warm water making sure your finger tips themselves are 'warm', and very softly massage her Beak at it's base area, on the sides of it there betwden the pads of your thumb and index finger...and, if she pushes into your fingers with it, even tentatively, then I think there is a good chance she will eat form the Nip ple.


Are there any Health Food Stores or Pet Supply Stores near you?


Phil
l v


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Aw, how cute, she's probably a spotted dove, they're cousins to mourning doves but larger. Adults have black patches with small white spots on the back of their necks.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...and or, get some very small Seeds ( which you need to do regardless) and review these images as for having her in a mode where she will be ( learning to be ) pecking...


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/young-dove---july-1/


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/december-1st-dove/


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/lap-towell


Have her in 'Towell Cave' on your lap, just at liesure and so she can doze or day dream as well, so as to encourage her to eat...so there is only an opening for her Head to look out of...and, immediately in front of her have some small dish of Seeds or loose Seeds, and 'peck' at them with your crook'd index finger, and see if she can start getting the knack...lon your Lap, your hand lightly over her even...over the towell she is covered by...

If their attention can be restricted to the immediate Seeds only, the Towell being a sort of 'Blinders', it sometimes helps, as well as that 'pecking' with them forms a sort of continuity from being a dependant eater, used to being fed, to progress to having someone pecking intimately with her...


You want to be seeing ohhhhhhh..35 or 40 poops in every 24 hours...


If you gather up that many, into one volume, then such is roughly the volume, minus liquid, which she would be eating in-a-day, ideally...


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks everyone 

She's been spending the day snoozing on the sun propped up on my knee and preening so she must be feeling better. Pooping once every half hour or so, which would be about normal?

She seems to have a hard time keeping warm herself even quite close to the heater, and only really perks up with direct body heat or sunlight. Is that a normal baby thing? Right now she's quite happy hiding in my shirt lol. Even wrapped up in her towel, she gets cold, or at least she feels cool to me.

I tried the nipple method with the top of an eye dropper and she shook her head and sprayed food everywhere so it mustn't taste very nice to her (don't know why, I've tried it and I quite like it  lol). She's free to peck at millet when she likes but hasn't shown much interest, I'll try some more though. It might be worth mixing some into her formula?

Some of her flight feathers had been bent on that wing so I trimmed to where they were straight, and figured that was probably good anyway because she'd have a hard time flying into windows etc with one wing trimmed in case she wasn't too scarred from her first experience to try again lol! No injuries luckily, and watching her preen she seems to have full movement of both wings.

She can peck, but hasn't quite mastered opening her mouth at the right time to let anything in yet so just stabs, and other times she misses.

I'm glad she should grow bigger, too. Now at least I'll know if she's not growing, she should be.

There's a pet supply just up the road from me (should still be open). Should I just get normal rearing mix? Or insectivore as well? Hopefully that will be more palatable to her.

So is the extra on her bottom bill (not sure of the terminology) a 'milk tooth'? So she'll lose that?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 



Just figure to support her learning to peck for now, I think it wil be easiest on you both..! And, will pay off well very soon, too...


Do see my links a few posts back, showing 'Towell Cave' since this is a very nice way of having them comfy while ill, and while learning to peck.

Poops every half hour sound ideal to me.


Let us know on the Urates, the 'white' part, if it is at all tinged 'yellow' or is pure unambiguous 'white'...describe the poos thoroughly, as I think she is sick, and it might help us figure out some clues as for what-with.


Upper Beak should be minutely longer than the lower one, or, they should be about even...

Lower Beak may be protruding from swelling in the Jaw...and their Jaw hinge is farther down than one would suppose at a casual glance...


So, revies the images in the links a few posts back, get some small whole Seeds rounded up, and try some liesured 'Lap Towell Cave' sessions, 'pecking' gently with her with your crook'd index finger, right in front of her nose, so to speak...and you can son tell us about how well she is putting away those Seeds and stuffing herself silly...! 


Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Yep, white is white. Actual poop is soft and firm but moist, just looks like what's going into her but firmer and a different colour? *shrugs* A browny-green colour. I tried to get pictures but they're not turning out, camera doesn't like focusing on things so small and flash just makes it worse.

Will try pecking lessons when she wakes up.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander,


Good to hear...


But I still can not tell if you saw the links a few posts back.


Can make a big difference having themin your pal, on a towell, and covered but for their face...when they are A: Injured/ill or both and, learning to peck...


Good luck..!


Phil
L v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Sorry guys, have been away for a week without net access.

Baby is flourishing  Looks like she's grown up a lot and enjoys her cuddles and time in the sun and has started attempting to fly again from her cage to my head- not that it always ends well for her lol!

I've been feeding her all this time, but I think she might be old enough now to learn on her own so that will be this week's adventure. I've seen her peck at seed but she gives up quite soon so I think it's just a matter of time and we'll have some lessons on my lap in front of the telly I think.

Thanks everyone for all your help and I'll keep you all updated!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the update and do keep us posted on her progress.
Sounds like she will eat on her own pretty soon. Great job.

Reti


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Thought I would update again 

I think she's well and truly bonded to me now, will follow me around and if I squeak she squeaks back- I don't know how normal that is though?

She's gotten a lot braver too and likes to go for little explorations but will go too far, run back and sit on my foot for a ride, too cute.

I'll try and get some photos up later but she still looks quite small to me. She's definitely grown, but not a lot. I don't know how big she's supposed to grow though so I might be worrying for no reason. She's definitely a lot heavier and has more substance though.

Her beak's slowly fixing itself up. Now both top and bottom meet, but she still has a bit of an underbite so the middle of her beak doesn't quite meet.

I *know* logically she should be eating on her own by now but she's just not very good at it so I'm giving her a morning and evening feed just to be sure she at least gets something substantial in between her little attempts. Whenever I put seed in front of her and peck she just sticks her head in it and tosses it from side to side and sprays it everywhere lol! At the moment her morning feed seems to last for seven or eight hours anyway.

She has finch and canary seed to choose from, they should be small enough for her to handle but she's really not very interested.

Should I keep doing what I'm doing or just cold-turkey it?

Thanks again to everyone for their most awesome advice so far


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

bystander said:


> Thought I would update again
> 
> I think she's well and truly bonded to me now, will follow me around and if I squeak she squeaks back- I don't know how normal that is though?



Hi bystander, 


This is normal...when they have accepted you as surrogate parent...and, it is normal when it fades, or changes into stages of independance, as they grow into their post fledgling stages...when they will intimate signs of testing independance...by degrees or sometimes pretty full blown.

If their testing their independance is respected, they become independant emotionally, and, if socialized to other wild or feral Birds also with some forays and grazing times among them, they will tend to manage fine if released to those others, ideally, the same others at the same location, with whom they have had supervised by you times of getting to graze with them, pecking at Seeds scatered on the ground and so on.


Otherwise, if the sometimes delicate independance testings are overpowered by the care giver's not understanding it, or, delayed or side tracked by other exigency or compromise, the Pigeon or Dove may be unprepared for anything but a domestic life, or, their socialization unto wild or feral others, will rekindle their innate urges to be away from whoever raised them, as the rule of Nature tends to have it...or, they will be able and interested to fly out of doors, and, come back, considering the place of their upbringing, to be 'home'.

It can go various ways...




> She's gotten a lot braver too and likes to go for little explorations but will go too far, run back and sit on my foot for a ride, too cute.



See above...

Likely, she is wanting you to go with her, and, to watch over her as she explores, or, even for you to take her to explore new things, contiguous places, and so on...or for you to show her places to graze and find Seeds and so on.


This is the time then for her to have you supervise outdoor occasions of her getting to graze and peck with the wild or feral others...or, just with you, and if anyone else joins in, fine...if not, at least you both have fun anyway.


If she is definitely not-releaseable, oweing to handicap or disablement, then such outings would still be very benificial to her, so long as she does not fly away by accident, into a World she is not physically up to living in as a wild or feral Bird...or where she might get lost or confused about how to get back, if she flew too far to see it directly.




> I'll try and get some photos up later but she still looks quite small to me.



They ( 'Doves' ) are rather small even when of an age to be on their own...and, they continue to grow for quite a while, if slowly.




> She's definitely grown, but not a lot. I don't know how big she's supposed to grow though so I might be worrying for no reason. She's definitely a lot heavier and has more substance though.
> 
> Her beak's slowly fixing itself up. Now both top and bottom meet, but she still has a bit of an underbite so the middle of her beak doesn't quite meet.



Images would be good for us to see what this looks like...



> I *know* logically she should be eating on her own by now but she's just not very good at it so I'm giving her a morning and evening feed just to be sure she at least gets something substantial in between her little attempts.



Sounds good...


Have you had her in 'Lap Towell Cave', and or 'pecked' with her into a small, deep little Glass or Cup, like a Shot Glass, full of small whole Seeds?




> Whenever I put seed in front of her and peck she just sticks her head in it and tosses it from side to side and sprays it everywhere lol! At the moment her morning feed seems to last for seven or eight hours anyway.



You might be able to steady her Head or Beak, gently, so she gets better at pecking 'straight' in, or, possibly, she does not like the Seeds she sees and wishes them out of the way, hoping there wil be other kinds beneath them...then again, maybe she is frustrated with how her Beak is not 'right', and the fine co-ordinations for Pecking are not managing the Beak she has right now...the whole 'pecking' thing for them is really a very fine co-ordinated series of lighteninf fast things which all have to work together, or, it does not work well at all...so, she might be a little frustrated with it.


Is there any Seed kind you have seen her seem to like, or, prefer?


Or, what kinds of Seeds have you been trying?





> She has finch and canary seed to choose from, they should be small enough for her to handle but she's really not very interested.



Those should be good choices...maybe, if you can find some, add Rape Seeds, Niger Seeds, and, White Safflower...and Milo...at least the Doves here seem to like those, as well as the Millet and Canary Seed...






> Should I keep doing what I'm doing or just cold-turkey it?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for their most awesome advice so far




I'd say keep doing what you are doing...


I did not read your post first, I just clicked 'quote' and started replying, so it ended up having a sort of amusing cadence and way about it, where, whatever I would ask, you would answer in your next paragraph...


Lol...


Usually, at least the Doves I have raised, they became FIERCELY independant once of an age about when they would have elected to depart from their Dove Parents...with rarely an exception...but yours, having some injurys to get over, likely is suspending that phase, or, may pass it bye, without it really occuring.


Does she have a free rove of the House or a room? What is her flying status so far?


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm glad everything seems to be normal. 

She tries to eat, but can only manage to pick the seeds up and drop them again, probably due to her beak and after a few failures she starts tossing it around, most likely out of frustration. If the eating doesn't improve in a week or so I'll see what the avian vet thinks. Even wrapped up in my lap it goes like this. It's like she knows what to do, but her body won't let her.

It's summer here and there are a lot of flies, and if I swat one she tries to eat it but, again, it doesn't go too well for her and she ends up tossing it a fair way away.

She has a small cage that she's put in when I go out until I think she's ready for the bigger one, the rest of the time she sits on a very cool portable perch I made her out of a fallen branch  There's a shot glass full of seed and a shot glass filled with water tied to it. Every now and then we go roaming.

Fluffypants (my pigeon) has a Feather Tether that I take her out in but they don't have one small enough for the baby and there are a lot of dogs and cats around where I am, and I'm along a main road too so I rarely take her outside, don't want to risk it as I think it's too dangerous. Sometimes when I take her out with me she can have a wander though but doen't go too far.

She can flutter a fair way but isn't really inclined to. If she's startled by something she can make it over to me though, and can fly up onto perches, couches etc but mostly just sits and preens or walks around. Once she made it to the curtain rod and was quite unsure of what to do next lol. After that incident I had to trim her flight feathers a little (middle of summer and no a/c so windows stay open and four big dogs in the yard) but she still manages everything except long distance. Oh, and she's figured out stairs lol! She'll hop/flutter up about three then climb on my foot for a free ride


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander...



Ahhhhh...sounds pretty good then all tolled...


The whole 'eating-pecking' thing can sometimes take a while, a long while even, when injury or neurological injury also, have impaired the subtle reflexes and finesse of it.


"Seed Poops" of course are good in these cases, have you done much of that?


Anyway, no 'Flies' for her...do not let her have any ! Very bad...too much 'wrong' Bacteria possible...could make her sick or do her in...


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

What are seed poops?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 


That is the term somehow acquired for the act or deed of gently opening their Beak, and, putting a Seed or two in, for them to swallow.

Larger Mouths usually allow one to sort of set or get the Seed far back, where they will swallow it instantly.


Usually, one has the Dove or Pigeon gently wrapped in a small soft Towell, with extra Towell past their Tail end, like a 'Burrito', and, my own method anyway, is to spigot them just behind my knees as I sit, so the wrapped Bird is about straight 'up', and holding them in effect by the extra Towell which continued past their Tail, with maybe their Tail in there too between my knees. This leaves both Hands free, and is easy on them, too.


Anyway, some Birds more than others take to this, like it, appreciate it, and very soon do not resist at all for one's opening their Beak, and some will even 'gape', opening their Beak for you to put the Seed into.


Your Dove is rather small of course, and, her Beak is delicate and slender...so, you would wish to be especially gentle in how you open it...making sure not to effect any sideways pressures top or bottom.

Possibly, if you softly massage the root area of her Beak, she will understand that you wish to feed her, and, will resist less, or will try and co-operate.


They can have "BEAKS OF IRON" when they want to..!


The 'Seed Pop' method is very good for when we may have a Dove or Pigeon whose digestive system is fine to handle Seeds, but, because of some neurological or physical impediment, they are not able to peck effectively to get very many on their own.


Try softly massaging the root area of her beak, where the corners of her mouth are, and, see if she sort of moves her Beak open and closed a tiny bit making a sort of little "yummaummayumma' gesture...and if so, you can try keeping your finger tips on the sides of her Beak while guiding it into her Shot Glass of whole, tiny Seeds, seeing if she may elect to 'gobble' like a Baby would...gotta keep your finger tips on the sides of her Beak though for her to do it, if she will do it...and if so, that would be a very nice thing for you both, and, a way for her to stuff herself silly in no time, with your help.


If that does not work, with at least a few honest trys, then, 'Seed Pop' might be a good recourse for getting whole Seeds into her...either five or six tiny Seeds, or one or two larger ones, at-a-time...repeated ohhhhhh, fifty times to a sitting, if you both can stand it, or, less if it seems tedious or trying her patience.

Thats the drill..!

Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Ah, gotcha 

Yep, I've been doing that with her (never knew there was a name for it though!) and she seems to enjoy it, but always gets the same look of surprise when I pop one in lol.

I've only done about four in a sitting though, didn't want to do too much since she wasn't used to them, but good to know I can do more!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Bystander!

I've been reading your thread and am so glad to see your little dove is doing so well! 

Have you decided on a name yet??

If you decide to release him/her and are not sure whether to do so, our site can certainly help. 

I'm glad Phil has offered you his suggestions. I call him "Dr. Doolittle" and consider him a true "pigeon/dove whisperer!"  His innovative and sometimes unusual techniques never cease to amaze and amuse me! There is certainly no doubt that he truly cares for our feathered friends!

We have many terrific members and we all wish you and your feathered ones the best!

You certainly came to the right site for answers!  

Shi & Squeaks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

bystander said:


> Ah, gotcha
> 
> Yep, I've been doing that with her (never knew there was a name for it though!) and she seems to enjoy it, but always gets the same look of surprise when I pop one in lol.
> 
> I've only done about four in a sitting though, didn't want to do too much since she wasn't used to them, but good to know I can do more!




Oh yea...you can do a lot of Seeds if you want...


For a Dove of ohhhhhhh, 110 grams weight or so, you can do a Shot Glass full ( 1 fluid Ounce of 'volume' ) for sure...

Really small Seeds, three or four Seeds at-a-time...bigger Seeds, one at a time.


Phil
l v


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

I think so too mr squeaks!

No name yet, nothing really suits her and I'm not certain of gender either so didn't want to stuff up again- I called my pigeon Mr Fluffypants until 'he' laid two eggs this year lol. Now I've dropped the Mr 

Open to suggestions though. Was thinking Celine as an inside joke- there's this Aussie comedy called Summerheights High with a little dog in it called Celine and referred to as she- but in a couple of scenes you can clearly see she is, in fact, a he LOL! That way it'd be right either way- only problem is, Celine really doesn't suit her


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Here's 2 and their meanings

Jovita- happy

Achava-friend

Achava can be used for either gender


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Okay got some pics (woo!).

This is the beak issue I'm talking about. Would be interested if people think it would interfere with her eating and therefor make her not a release prospect?










Exploring the shiny things.










Another for the beak. I think she felt sheepish being busted playing with the shiny thing lol.










Sitting down (was meant to show off her markings but is a bit blurry).










I still think she looks too slight?

I like Jovita BirdDogg (she doesn't seem to have an opinion though- just sort of looked at me like I was crazy lol).


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh- and someone was asking about poops so before I cleaned her perch I got this










This is about two days' worth and about half of the base. Normal-looking? Can you tell I'm paranoid lol.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi bystander, 



If that is "two days worth' of Poops, she is definitely not getting enough to eat.


Much smaller Doves will make poops about the size of a medium Raisen in bulk, well curled brown or brownish-green, with white urates...and, make I s'pose, over thirty of them a day, maybe more.


Beak-wise...hmmmm...time will tell...


The Beak is a living part of them of course, and, if she 'bent' the upper Beak somewhat, for it to be possibly curved 'down' somewhat, maybe this will iron out on it's own after a while...

Beaks are actually Bone Mandibles, covers in a Keritin sheath, the Keritin is always growing at the tips, to make up from wear in pecking...while the rest stays pretty much set...so, I dunno...if it will self correct over time, or not...but it might.


Otherwise, their Beak should close with a very fine line only, where the upper and lower meet, from the tip to the corners of their mouth...so...her Beak does show some problems still...


Here is an image showing a Mourning Dove, a little bluured, but was handy in my files...as you can see, his Beak shows a fine line merely, and, no 'gap'...

"Mothra"


Best wishes!


She sure is a pretty one!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

That's half of the surface though and just the time she's out during the day, still too less?

Are there any specific guidelines as to how much to feed?

I think part of the problem is she isn't eating on her own during the day- would it be beneficial to start up feeds during the day again just in case? I don't mind doing it if it's what she needs.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

If she's really bonded with you and "people" friendly, she wouldn't be safe to release, would she? And if she's not able to eat enough without assist to maintain a good weight, another reason to not release. She sure looks like a happy little thing.
Daryl


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

That is a gorgeous little dove.

The poops are not what I would desire in a dove. Mostly, they should be very well formed - raisin-sized and brown in color. Most of the dove poop I have seen show little urates (the whitish urine part). Try giving it small seed, like for finches and parakeets, for a while.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

bystander said:


> I think so too mr squeaks!
> 
> No name yet, nothing really suits her and I'm not certain of gender either so didn't want to stuff up again- I called my pigeon Mr Fluffypants until 'he' laid two eggs this year lol. Now I've dropped the Mr
> 
> Open to suggestions though. Was thinking Celine as an inside joke- there's this Aussie comedy called Summerheights High with a little dog in it called Celine and referred to as she- but in a couple of scenes you can clearly see she is, in fact, a he LOL! That way it'd be right either way- only problem is, Celine really doesn't suit her


Hehe..wouldn't that be jinxing her to get hit by a car?!


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## bystander (Dec 13, 2007)

Hmmm, you make a good point 

I think her name's going to have to be Wuhu, because whenever she sees me that's what she whistles- "woo hoo!" 

I've started blending whole seeds with water and giving her those, and now her poops look like my pigeon's (round brown balls with urates- normal?) so I'm guessing that's good?

She's a talkative little thing, but the beak doesn't seem to be much better so I'll see when I can make an appointment for the vet  Hopefully it can be reset or something.


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