# Hen in Trouble



## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Hello everybody...
New girl on board. I have only 4 pigeons-2pairs. I keep them for hobby,now for many months. I only know to give them good feed mix,grit n clean water. Everything was fine until my hen started poop out partially digested seeds in droppings. Now sometimes she passes out grains without digesting them. Im trying to find a vet near me but no vet here who knows pigeons. 
What could be wrong with her? My family is not let me keep pigeons so they dont give me money to treat pigeons.
Additional details: this hen raised 2 babies succesfully few weeks ago. She was mating with her husband but now i hve not let her mate. I separate her few days ago.I dont let them out;so she didnt eat something foreign. I put cage in sunlight daily for 2 hrs. I visit this site as member so i know somethings to be taken care of.
The smell from her droppings is unbelievably bad. I cant get my nose near cage.
Pls help...
Tell me how to post pics. I want to post her poop


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I use postimage.org to post pics on PT. Resize ur images on site itself so that pic fits in here.
Post the link that is meant for "other websites"


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Have you ever wormed them? aside from worms sounds a bit like coxi, although I am no expert. 

Best way to add pics is to upload them to your album, once they are uploaded, open them, copy the BB code from below the pic and paste it to this thread.

There are some experts on this that should be along soon, hopefully you can get the pic up by then


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi,
Nice to see more pigeon enthusiast from India in PT.
From which state are you ?Welcome to PT.

Please answer the below questions,so that we can get a better idea of your birds.
*1)Color & consistency of the droppings? 
2)Whether the Bird is eating & flying? 
3)Which breed ?
4)Is there fluid collection in crop?
5)Any respiratory Difficulty ?
6)Any yellowish/whitish growth in the throat ? 
7) Any swellings/nodules on the skin ? 
8)Age of the birds affected ? 
9)Any twisting of neck and balance problems ?
10)Loss of weight ?
11) Any history of recent travels or change of location ?
12) Are they new birds ?
13) Have you dewormed them ?
14)Have you started them on any medicines ,so far ?*


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

how often do you clean your loft/pen? do you know who's poop smells bad believe it or not that is a system also pigeon poo not supposed to stink much . thanks for asking for help


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you brocky...
Here the pics... Pls tell all whats wrong with her


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you NZ Pigeon...
Yes wormed them 2 and a half months ago before eggs laid.
My vet for cows gave me albendazole to worm pigeons. It is used once in 3 or 6 months


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

thank you Jason,
I clean the box 2-3 times per weak.
I separate the hen few days ago so her poop is bad smelly. Hers husband poop is okay


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you boneyrajan.k
I live on border of Himachal Pradesh and Haryana. Both states are fighting on this territory for years. So my remote village is in no states's land.
1.poop is very bad smelly
2.she is eating and drinking only few grains.
3. Breed is high flying pigeons
4. No fluid in crop. Very dry throat.
5. Breathing good without difficulty
6.
.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

6. White thick saliva deep in throat. Her tongue and beak is dark greenish on the inside. Throat is very dry.
7.no outside nodules
8.age unknown. But she became mother 3 times at my home: age is i think more than 2 yyears
9. not moving much: some times stumbling and shaking
10. Very big weight loss
11:


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

11. No reloction for many months. With me all the time
12. No new birds.
13.dewormed them with albendazole.
14. No medicine yet
Sorry i dont have computer,i type by phone which allow me type few lines at one time so posting in parts again again
Pls help


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Looks like a coccidiosis and/or some kind of worms :
*here is a good website to diagnosis the symptoms of each disease I recommend you to check it out!*
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

the birds have been wormed recently and IMO the poops look nothing like cocci poops.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you Abdulbaki for the link. very Helpful site.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Mani....I would suggest you to give this medicine,i know how difficult it is to get pigeon specific medicines in India,especially if you are in a village.I strongly suggest you to give this medicine.its available in all medical shops.Its a human medicine,but safe for pigeons.I have personally used it on many occasions and the results were good.

*1.Nor-metrogyl syrup/suspension give 0.8-1 ml per bird once daily for 5 days.*
(Its a combination of Norfloxacin and metronidazole).

*2.Amprolium powder dissolve it in drinking water 2.5 gm in 2 litres of drinking water for 5 days.*
It will act against coccidia.(This medicine will available only on veterinary medical shops ).I am not sure whether ,it will be available at your place.

*3.Keep the bird warm,(It makes a huge difference )*


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you boneyrajan.k. I will try to get medicines. But it is hard to get the medicine.

Hen has suddenly start to show more symptoms. Thick water like fluid is coming from nose. She has stop eating and drinking. I giv her some water but she shake her neck like she has great pain in her throat. No growing of nodules.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Her condition is more bad. She don't move. Just sitting. She has not pooped for many hours passed by


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

really it is hard to help over the internet. the bird could have something like PDD (Proventricular Dilatation Disease). something should be tried ASAP. IMO I would give baytril and give a medication for canker. hand feed her small amounts with baby bird formula and get her on a warm heating pad seperated in a cage or crate.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

...Mani... said:


> Thank you boneyrajan.k
> I live on border of Himachal Pradesh and Haryana. Both states are fighting on this territory for years. So my remote village is in no states's land.


Are u situated in Siswan jungle,somewhere near dam area. I heard about that border hill area on which both states are fighting in papers. I know that area,infact I visited that area for sightseeing and treking. Then it will be hard for u to get medicines.
Feel free to tell me if u need any medicines. I will send u from here. I live near chandigarh.

Ur bird seem to have mixed infections.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you SpiritWings...
I don't know the disese u named. But I hve given him 30 mg enrofloxacin. It is midnight now. I going sleep. I will see the hen in morning if she improved

Thank you brocky bieber,
Yes you are right. I live in Siswan forest,backside of Siswan dam in valley. I have enrofloxacin of mammals. I will tell u if I need the medicine.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

The hen has died in the night. She poop some dark orange redish soft mass and died.

Can anybody tell me what is the disese? Do I medicate my other birds to save them? Has the disese alredy spread to my remaining three birds??? Pls help


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Albendazole is Toxic to pigeons and doves and should never be used on them. Also, 30 mg of enrofloxacin is too much.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

...Mani... said:


> The hen has died in the night. *She poop some dark orange redish soft mass and died*.
> 
> Can anybody tell me what is the disese? Do I medicate my other birds to save them? Has the disese alredy spread to my remaining three birds??? Pls help


Could she have been egg bound?


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you Jay3,
Toxic?But my cow and poultry vet give albendazole. He is old man and very experienced. He said albendazole is very good. Can u explain why toxic? I think toxic is poison,I right? Your opinion is not same to my cow and poultry vet.
How much dose is of enrofloxacin is given?

Thank you NZ pigeons,
Her death cause is unknown. I am woried for my 3 pigeons.

Thank you brocky bieber,
What is mixed infections?


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

...Mani... said:


> Thank you Jay3,
> Toxic?But my cow and poultry vet give albendazole. He is old man and very experienced. He said albendazole is very good. Can u explain why toxic? I think toxic is poison,I right? Your opinion is not same to my cow and poultry vet.


Toxic mean Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means.
Jay is one of the most experienced members in this Forum and I think your bird Died because of the Inappropriate Medication or by negligence, Keep an eye on your other birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here's some reading for you.
The problem is that most vets, even many birds vets are not very knowledgeable about pigeons and doves. There are things that you can use on other animals and even other birds, that cannot be used on pigeons or doves. 
Albendazole and fenbendazole also effects the bone marrow in them, that they need to be able to make cells that fight infection. This then sets them up to die from another infection that they can not now, fight off. 


Fenbendazole and Albendazole Toxicity in Pigeons and doves
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102654429657

What seems obvious is that both the drugs are disadvantageous to the pigeons. In all cases the pigeons loos weight after a treatment. Also, most pigeons develop leucopoenia. The fewer white blood cells in the medicated pigeons cause them more susceptible to bacteria and other microbial intruders. This might explain why the survival rate of the treated pigeons is lower then the untreated (controls). Most pigeons that died suffered from an infection. The bone marrow in involved in the production of blood cells, and in the treated birds the bone marrow was suppressed. Furthermore, the majority of the birds get more or less injured intestines, probably from these drugs. 
http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetnorway/drnillsreither/anthelminiticdrugs.cfm

The commonly used anthelminitic drugs Fenbendazole and Albendazole are toxic to pigeons.
http://pigeonwriter.wordpress.com/worms/

fenbendazole wormer? Safe-Guard 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/fenbendazole-wormer-safe-guard-42825.html


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I don't know why everyone is using albendazole on pigeons. I myself was given albendazole by a vet. U Mani and mkdas in sick pigeons forum also use albendazole. Vets are to be blamed. Its very sad that they suggest albendazole to every fancier. There are thousands using it on their pigeons and don't even realise that this drug is killing their pigeons/doves. Its very sad.

In easy words,Mixed infection is that in which many types of bacteria/pathogens attack at the same time.


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Can anyone help me please?, I am in a similar situation where my pigy poops with small rice like worms moving around (suspect Tapewrom). I got a advice from my vet to use 5 of Albendazole (Albomar) down to the throat. But after seeing this post i am more concerned. Can anyone suggest some good wormer when Albendazole is not good for pigeon.?

Thanks in advance,

Ragav


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

vendren said:


> Can anyone help me please?, I am in a similar situation where my pigy poops with small rice like worms moving around (suspect Tapewrom). I got a advice from my vet to use 5 of Albendazole (Albomar) down to the throat. But after seeing this post i am more concerned. Can anyone suggest some good wormer when Albendazole is not good for pigeon.?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Ragav


I hope one of the experienced guys see your post soon or you will have to start a new thread about it!!! in the sick or injured dove and pigeons forum!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Moxidectin Plus will work on tapeworm, and it is sold by Siegels, but they are out of it. There is another one, Mediworm, which works on tapeworm also. Jedd's sells it.
http://www.jedds.com/-strse-510/MEDIWORM-TABLETS-100-ct/Detail.bok


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Ragav, welcome to Pigeon talk.
Sad thing is that many online site have Moxidectin Plus out of the stock... And it will take 15 to 30 days to reach ur address.
In India there is Drontal Plus by pfizers or Dronicit Plus which have ivermectin+pyrantal pamoate+praziquantel mixed in proper proportions. It takes care of all the worms. But sure of correct dosages and don't forget to deworm with 21 days of gap to kill the newly hatched worms... With this dewormer u have to remove feed but keep water for better results.


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks Jai and All

Thanks Brocky and few question for you and your answers can help me a lot, as i believe you are in India

- Is Moxidectin available in India? sF yes where can i get online/offline or do you have any stock now?

- I saw the descrption of the Drontal Plus from http://www.pamperedpetsonline.in/bayer-drontal-plus-deworming-tablets-for-dogs-strip-of-20-tablets/ and it seems it has Febantel 150mg. Fabantel is same Fenbendazole. Please help

- Also PM me your contact details.

Thanks,

Ragav


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Mediworm is good, but don't know what you can get in India.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, Drontal Plus does contain Febantel, which is in the same family as Fenbendazole. That is toxic to pigeons. I wouldn't use it. It's different in mammals, and even other birds.


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the confirmation Jay,

Can you please confirm whether i can use this (http://www.savavet.com/products/cat...raziquantel-20mg-pyrantel-embonate-230mg.html) as a alternative for Mediworm. It has 

Each chewable tablet contains:
Praziquantel IP 20 mg
Pyrantel Pamoate IP 230 mg


Regards,

Ragav


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes this should be good. Its only pyrantel and praziquantel in it.

Febantel is particularly toxic to some birds when injectable form is used. Yes it has many temporary side effects. Albenda,fenbenda etc zoles are instructed to be used for three consecutive days which makes it more toxic to pigeons and it starts working after 12 hours.


If u can get the drug u showed then its good. Or u can give ivermectin for all other worms and praziquantel tablets which don't have fenbantel.

If u actually want to buy pigeon specific wormer then try pigeonshopindia.com 
They have ascapilla+ pills specially made for pigeons.


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi Brocky,

Not sure whether you are aware or not, this dewormer (Ascapilla) has the same Fenbendazole 8 Mg. Are yous till suggesting to use it? 
Thanks,

Ragav


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

U can give ivermectin because it safe and effective. But it can cause temporary infertility in hens(not in all cases) so it should not be used when hens are pregnant. Praziquantel tablets are also available in India which can be used for tapeworms. Its gonna be cheap for u to buy locally then ordering it from abroad.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Truth is every worming drug is a poison. Ascapilla plus pills have fenbendazole as an active ingredient but it has right and required proportion and dosage put in one capsule to be used per bird. People who have used Ascapilla+(pigeon specific) say that they have great results. Even moxidectin is also harmful if overdosed.

And in India Diatomaceous Earth is also available. But one need to find it in medical grade. I haven't used it but people say it takes care of all worms and is safe for young birds also.
May I know where in India are u located?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There isn't a right dosage of fenbendazole for pigeons. Some have used it and not had problems, others have lost birds. That family of drugs is toxic to pigeons. You don't have to over dose to kill a pigeon with it. Yes, they are all poisons, but not all drugs for deworming are toxic to pigeons. 
And many have used Diatomaceous Earth, and still had worms. There must be a safe dewormer in India.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You would have to know what amounts of each drug a pigeon should have. Otherwise how would you know how much a bird needs? The dose in those tablets are for a cat, not a bird.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ofcourse the pill have to be parted to suit the correct dosage. That guy Ragav is smart, knows many things so I thought he's gonna figure it out. 

Oh yeah!Jay, I can recall you've some contacts in India... Would you mind using them and ask for a safe and broad spectrum dewormer? Tapeworms are huge problem here...


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

This looks serious. I like to know the best wormer available in India. But truthfully my birds do not show any trouble by albendazole from outside but I don't know if they are feeling bad from inside after albendazole. I don't have lab to check the test of birds but I will not use albendazole. Pls tell the name of safe wormer


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Mani,
You can use pyrantal pamoate and ivermectin in rotation if you are sure that your birds have worms. You can give praziquantel tablets to your birds if your birds have tapeworms by parting the tablet into correct dosages. But don't over use the deworming course. Once in six months is okay if your birds don't have serious worm infestation


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanking all you guys for the suggestions.

Finally i got a dewormer with Praziquantel for the tapeworm problem. Virbac in India got a tablet called IPRAZ, which got Ivermectin and Praziquantel (2mg and 50mg respectively). I parted into 4 and given one down to the throat. So that my .5 KG pigeon will get Ivermectin .5mg and 12.5mg Praziquantel.

Virbac IPRAZ


I believe the safe dosage for Ivermectin will be .5mg to 1mg /KG and Praziquantel ranges 6mg to 60 mg /KG.

I don't see any side effects on day 3 today also never seen any worm/eggsacs in their poop (heard somewhere that dead tapeworms are not visible in poops mostly, if someone got any insights on this please share.)


Also the Moxidectin alternate available in India as MILBEMAX (Novartis), but unsure about the dosage of milbemycin oxime /KG in pigeons. For kittens it is recommended as 1/2 tablet for 0.5 KG to 1 KG. Suggestions for recommended dosage will be appreciated.

Novartis MILBEMAX

Thanks,

Ragav


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I never heard of Milbemycin oxime. Are you sure it's safe for pigeons? Just because it is safe for dogs and cats, doesn't mean that it is safe for pigeons.


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

That is what my question aswell 

I did noticed both looks same or from same family if Moxidectin is safe for pigeon then milbemycin will be safe is my guess.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/anthelmintics/macrocyclic_lactones.html

_Source: merckmanuals.com_ 
_The macrocyclic lactones (avermectins and milbemycins) are products or chemical derivatives of soil microorganisms belonging to the genus Streptomyces. The avermectins in commercial use are ivermectin, abamectin, doramectin, eprinomectin, and selamectin. Commercially available milbemycins are milbemycin oxime and moxidectin._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxidectin

_Source: Wikipedia
Moxidectin (Milbemycin B[1]) kills parasites, so is used for the prevention and control of heartworm and intestinal worms, and can be found in treatments prescribed for animals such as dogs, cats, horses, cattle and sheep. Application methods for moxidectin vary by treatment, and include oral, topical, and injectable solutions. Cydectin Pour On is a trade name for a formulation for use on cattle and red deer._

Thanks,

Ragav


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Raghav,
Thnx for sharing the info buddy. I asked my medical practioner but unfortunately drugs are not available with him. I'll try to get them. In the meantime if you locate a source where to buy/get them , do let me know...


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## vendren (Sep 11, 2013)

Hi Brocky,

You are welcome and seems you can buy this from a online store. Personally i haven't ordered anything with them, but seems they are genuine. 

http://www.indianpetstore.com/virbac-ipraz-tab-2-s.html

Thanks,

Ragav


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## companionloft (Jun 3, 2016)

*Topic -Deworming or Reworming*

Dear Friends
I am Ranjith Balram and a fresher in Pigeon Keeping ,this post regarding a natural /ayurvedic Dewormer for pigeons

Ingredients-Tender Neem leaves
 Carrom Seed
Rock Salt
Dry Ginger
Method of prepration

1.Wash the Neem leaves allow to dry 
2.using a mixer grind carrom seeds+ Rock salt and Dry ginger and then add neem leaves
3.Roll into balls (size of a peas)
4.Dry it in the shade of a sunlight 

Then can be given to the birds and have received colourful results.

Regards 
Ranjith Balram
Kerala India
fb profile-Ranjithbalram


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