# Disastrous weekend



## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

What a Disastrous weekend for me ................

My Miniature Schnauzer female got into my loft and out of 40 pigeons to those from she had to kill my best hen. The hen was sitting on a baby (that luckily escaped the ordeal) She then tore into my babies on the floor and the rest is history. I never leave my lofts door open – I’m busy homing some of my birds. One of my red cocks came back over the weekend after 2 weeks missing inaction. He did not want o go thru the trap and I open the door for him. Some friend come over and i went into the house for 5 minutes and my wife said to me the dog is barking outside. As I went down to the loft I knew she was in my loft and I was already calculating the damage in my mind. Yip, she took out my hen, luckily her babies was ok and the cock bird will have to feed the baby by himself.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

Your mistake not the Dogs, Why punish the dog by taking its home away from it and making it start over somewhere else.

I know your mad but it is a dog, It is in some of their nature to do this,
Live and Learn


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Why not train your dog to coexist with the birds its not too hard if you put your mind to it


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

You pigeon flyers better take your dogs in the loft and teach them not to mess with the birds. I had a cat that would go in the loft with me---it or the birds never had a bad day.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Dogs will do things I remember a flyer years ago early 1980s. His Wife got mad at him And put his 2 bird dogs in his loft. He was going to divorce over that Then she came around And even got active with the birds. Guess she did not want a divorce. But since your dog now has a taste for the birds it would be a little work teaching it not to go after them. Better to keep the old loft secure.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Why are you blaming the dog for your own irresponsibility? You left the door open, the dog had not been properly trained by you to not go near the birds.

Hope you have learned a valuable lesson from this, but don't take your anger out on the dog.


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

She is too old to learn. I have tried but she is going wild near the pigeons. She have pups now (9 weeks old) and I took the pup that i want to keep into the loft yesterday. the pigeons were scared asssssssss because of their encounter with the mum. It will take time to earn the trust of the pigeons again and not even talking about their trust in the loft.

I know it is nature for dogs to hunt. unfortunately we received the dog when she was 2 years old


My wife is a dog trainer and she said that the dog already tasted pigeon blood and to train her now will be almost impossible

********* I also need to say that the dog has a enclosure where she lives with the pups and she got out when we were showing the pups to our friends


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Leaving the door open without supervision was an oversight on your part not the dogs. However the dog now has the taste for them and IMO will never be able to coexist. I had a dog back when and he got the taste for the chickens one time and after that even though he was chained he would wait quietly and calmly until a chicken strolled too close and he would pounce on it.
Kurps


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm really sorry about your bird. But that is a dogs nature, so not the dogs fault. Just a wake up call to make sure she never gets in there again. It's not that hard to keep them separate. It could just as well have been a hawk that had gotten in with the door left open.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I'm really sorry about your bird. But that is a dogs nature, so not the dogs fault. Just a wake up call to make sure she never gets in there again. It's not that hard to keep them separate. It could just as well have been a hawk that had gotten in with the door left open.


That is a good point about the hawk,I didn't even think of that. And I failed to say that I am sorry for your lose,good luck with her youngsters.
Kurps


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

BlackWing said:


> She is too old to learn. I have tried but she is going wild near the pigeons. She have pups now (9 weeks old) and I took the pup that i want to keep into the loft yesterday. the pigeons were scared asssssssss because of their encounter with the mum. It will take time to earn the trust of the pigeons again and not even talking about their trust in the loft.
> 
> I know it is nature for dogs to hunt. unfortunately we received the dog when she was 2 years old
> 
> ...


If it was me..I would train the puppy your going to keep to ignore the birds and give the dog away that kills your birds. If a rancher had a dog that killed his livestock... you can bet that dog would'nt be on the ranch. I don't see why this is any different. I trained my pitbulls not to attack my cat with a water gun...as soon as they stared at the cat I broke thier concentration with a water blast it took time but it worked. Puppies are easy to correct old dogs get set in thier ways and you don't want the momma teaching the puppies that killing your pigeons is a sport.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

BlackWing, I wouldnt get rid of the dog than if she has her own enclosure. Really though its up for you to decide. Im sorry for your loss though.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

There is just no such thing as a dog being too old to Train.

My wife is a dog Trainer and you need a trainer with Patience and experience.

I cant believe all this get rid of the dog crap. Look it is just this simple, You made a mistake, OK ,Sorry about your Birds, But just adapt and overcome from here. You can do it.

And to others, If you can not handle dealing with problems like this, Then you are not fit to care for animals of any kind Period.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Kalkbl said:


> There is just no such thing as a dog being too old to Train.
> 
> My wife is a dog Trainer and you need a trainer with Patience and experience.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for the loss of your birds 
And I have to agree with this post. I use to breed and have had Chow Chow's my whole life. They are very aloof, independent and one of the hardest breeds to train - but it CAN be done.
I wouldn't get rid of the dog - but I would "pounce" right on her for that "stalking behavior" that she is exhibiting, - staring and going crazy when she see's the birds is a big No No  That's where I would start!


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Kalkbl said:


> There is just no such thing as a dog being too old to Train.
> 
> My wife is a dog Trainer and you need a trainer with Patience and experience.
> 
> ...


 I like your stance on this its very noble three cheers for you. But if you keep a rotten apple its going to ruin the whole litter. He already said his wife is a dog trainer and this dog is set in her ways. The mother is going to teach her puppies how to "hunt". There not my birds being killed...but if she is otherwise a good dog accept for this bad habit I'm sure a family member or friend will take her. I grew up with daschounds they where bred to be fearless and to pull foxes and badgers out of thier foxholes by the nose. Also your a too judgemental making a statement like being unfit to care for animals period? Get over yourself. Do you think animal control is going to "re-train" a dog that bites a person? And if not why? Because they know once a dog has acted on a impulse it is more likely to repeat it again.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Predator and prey. My dogs and birds walk right past each other without looking twice but my daughter's dog, a rat terrier, has too much prey drive. Don't think she can ever be trusted around the birds. I think a mini schnauzer may have similar instincts.
My collie however thinks she's their mama!


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

M Kurps said:


> Leaving the door open without supervision was an oversight on your part not the dogs. However the dog now has the taste for them and IMO will never be able to coexist. I had a dog back when and he got the taste for the chickens one time and after that even though he was chained he would wait quietly and calmly until a chicken strolled too close and he would pounce on it.
> Kurps


Dear Kalkbl,
IMO means "in my opinion" and "coexist" as stated by the Webster's College Dictionary means to exist peacefully together. I did not once advise to get rid of the dog,I simply stated a fact about a dog that I had. If you read my quote my dog was kept and on a chain, that was outside to clearify.

#13 Today, 06:05 AM 
Kalkbl 
Pigeon Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bayville, NJ
Posts: 107 

There is just no such thing as a dog being too old to Train.

My wife is a dog Trainer and you need a trainer with Patience and experience.

I cant believe all this get rid of the dog crap. Look it is just this simple, You made a mistake, OK ,Sorry about your Birds, But just adapt and overcome from here. You can do it.

And to others, If you can not handle dealing with problems like this, Then you are not fit to care for animals of any kind Period. 








In your quote your stating that anyone who decides to let the dog go isn't fit to care for any animal. Now IMO you are talking without thinking, as what about the person who can't afford a trainer or a person who doesn't have the room for the dog and the birds in the yard WITHOUT supervision,are they less than fit,no IMO a problem arose for them and they made a decision. IMO that is better than not making a decision at all.They made the best decision in thier eyes for thier pet,that makes them fit in my eyes.
Kurps


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

*IMO* pets are not disposable. They are a responsibility once you decide to take one in. And *"coexist"* means you don't eat other family members!
I don't mean you have to train the dog enough to "house" it *in* with the birds.* But if you don't squash that "prey" instinct and "stalking", she will move on to bigger and better things!* -and she won't make a good pet for anyone else either. Any good dog trainer will tell you that 
Spirit Wings has the solution that I'm trying to make -- She has her dog "under control" but doesn't give it the opportunity to think for itself.
I don't let my dogs come into contact with my birds - BUT ALSO, they are NOT allowed to watch or stare at the birds either. When I say "LEAVE IT", they turn and walk away- that goes for my birds, cats, other people's pets, my roast beef sandwich sitting on the coffee table and kids!


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## Andyfitz (May 29, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your birds. I understand it is a dogs instict to do something like that. I am about to start building my first loft and I know when I get my first pigeons my Beagle will want to get in the loft. She will not be aloud out in the back yard without a leash though.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

BlackWing said:


> What a Disastrous weekend for me ................
> 
> My Miniature Schnauzer female got into my loft and out of 40 pigeons to those from she had to kill my best hen. The hen was sitting on a baby (that luckily escaped the ordeal) She then tore into my babies on the floor and the rest is history. I never leave my lofts door open – I’m busy homing some of my birds. One of my red cocks came back over the weekend after 2 weeks missing inaction. He did not want o go thru the trap and I open the door for him. Some friend come over and i went into the house for 5 minutes and my wife said to me the dog is barking outside. As I went down to the loft I knew she was in my loft and I was already calculating the damage in my mind. Yip, she took out my hen, luckily her babies was ok and the cock bird will have to feed the baby by himself.


Sorry to hear of this disaster. If you wire one of the dead pigeons real good to your dog's collar, and then let it stay on it's collar untill it rots off, the dog will avoid pigeons going forward. It is a little gross, but I heard it will work. 

At my house, the dog would already be sitting at the SPCA awaiting it's fate.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Sorry to hear of this disaster. If you wire one of the dead pigeons real good to your dog's collar, and then let it stay on it's collar untill it rots off, the dog will avoid pigeons going forward. It is a little gross, but I heard it will work.
> 
> At my house, the dog would already be sitting at the SPCA awaiting it's fate.


I thought about saying that. BUT I thought people would jump all over that saying it was cruel. But it does work.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Wow. Relax, people...

I'm sorry for the loss of your hen. Sounds like it could have been worse.

How about, put the dog away, before flying your birds. Make sure your loft is closed. Simple responsibility and attention to detail will prevent 99% of your problems.

Dogs will be dogs. Pigeons will be pigeons. Keep the two apart if you don't want problems. This is not a get rid of the dog, or get rid of the pigeons scenario.

What are you going to do if a hawk or racoon gets in your loft? Kill everything that eats pigeons?

Don


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

BlackWing said:


> *She is too old to learn*. I have tried but she is going wild near the pigeons. S*he have pups now* (9 weeks old) and I took the pup that i want to keep into the loft yesterday. the pigeons were scared asssssssss because of their encounter with the mum. It will take time to earn the trust of the pigeons again and not even talking about their trust in the loft.
> 
> I know it is nature for dogs to hunt. unfortunately we received the dog when she was 2 years old
> 
> ...


Are you for real??? Seriously, this must be some sort of joke, right? 

You say the dog is too old to train? BS No dog is ever too old to train. Then you state the dog has pups? if the dog is that old ("too old" as you stated) then it wouldn't be having pups. To top it off, you say your wife is a dog trainer, well that just made my jaw drop! Hope she doesn't train dogs for a living.

Little insight, I have a 90 pound 12 yr old Malamute who has a history of killing small items (rodents, birds, cats are the favorite) By God, that dog knows not to even look at my birds, and I have only had pigeons for a year. So do the math, the dog was 11 when I got pigeons. My other dog is a 5 yr old 140 pound Great Pyrenees, she could swallow a pigeon whole if she wanted. She too has a history of killing critters. But she too knows not to look at them. In fact at night, I put her out near the lofts to guard them against the neighborhood cats. My dogs are intelligent enough that when a pigeon comes past, they don't budge. They know it lives here and it is part of the family. But if a hawk comes thru, they are on it quicker than flies on poo. 
Me thinks you need to lay down some ground rules with your dog and YOURSELF. I agree with others, this was not your dog's fault it is 100% yours for not training the dog in the first place and being careless.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cbx1013 said:


> Wow. Relax, people...
> 
> I'm sorry for the loss of your hen. Sounds like it could have been worse.
> 
> ...




Ya know, this post makes the most sense. Different breeds of dogs were bred for different things. Some dogs are just hunters. These guys were originally used to catch rats. It is bred into the dog, so why get mad at him for doing what is natural and instinctive for him to do. I had 2 dogs, one being a gordon setter. He could easily catch wild birds in the yard. I have had to keep pigeons in the house on occasion, and it really wasn't all that much of a problem to keep them separated. I just gated him out of the room when the bird was out. I find it a lot easier to keep a dog out of my loft. It seems to be causing more of a problem than it has to, as the dog could just be confined or chained when the birds are out, and not leaving the loft door open. Or if it is open, confine the dog. Why try to train a dog to do what it was bred to do, or get rid of it, when it is so easy to keep them apart.


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

Hi All

Cheers for all the feedback and comments

A dog will be a dog. Unfortunately we did not own her from pup size and it will take a lot of effort to train her out of her ways. (My wife is a puppy trainer) 

What I did not mentioned is that I also own a Rottweiler – 18 months old. We owned her from pup and she has no issues with the birds. I only started with the pigeons 4 months ago so she is a fast learner and I only had to speak out loud to her a few times and she knows now. She even walk with me to the loft and wait outside until I’m done. I have tried the same thing with the Schnauzer without luck. We even struggle to keep her in the property because she is always on the run. I have spend hours searching for her. She even clime the fens to get out. She only needs a small opening where her head fits in and she is gone. I had enough of her ........... but she has one litter a year and the money out of the pups goes towards my pigeons as well as flight tickets for my children from South Africa to New Zealand. I only see them ones a year. So I just need to find a way around the issue. My wife will help with the training and hopefully she will learn. Our pets get the best food and treatment possible and they are part of the family. My wife and I do not have children together so teh animals is the children. Therefore this is really a big problem for me.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

Part One,

Dog, Actually Bird dog to be exact, And Pigeons.
No chase, No Kill, Just hangs out

















Now when the dog is told to approach or given the easy command.
She Then goes on POINT









OK see next post.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

No I am only posting this to show that you can Train all animals if you want too, I am not bashing anymore, I just got full hot when things were said like, Too old to train, And once a dog tastes Blood they will always Kill.

So Part 2, 
Same Dog, Except this time she is Hunting,
Thats right same dog is a Prize one Maximum score Hunting dog that Hunts, Quail, Chuckar,Pheasant,Grouse,Ducks,Geese etc. You get the point.

It takes hard work, But most any Dog can be trained what to hunt and what not to Hunt. I hunt Birds but not Pigeons, They are a protected Bird as well as Doves in NJ. I started with Pigeons to try to Race them.

Good Luck with your Birds and Your Dogs,


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your dog is trained and that is great, but you may have had her from a pup. It is much easier to train a dog when you have it from a pup, then when you get it at 2 years old. Harder to break habits and instill new ones in their place, than it is to train a dog right to begin with. And some breeds DO train easier. Different dispositions. My dogs wouldn't think of even looking at my house pigeon, and even walk right by the birds in the aviary, but I would never totally trust them alone. Just easier to keep the two separate.

Beautiful dog, by the way. Nice point.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

Gracie my Pointer was a rescue, Did not have her as a Pup. Got her about 1 yr old after she was Kicked out of her first Home. She just turned 2 yrs,

I set you up with that, Because I knew someone would say yeah started with a Puppy. Most of my dogs were Rescues so far.

It is all good though.

Thanks Spirit Wings, I think I remember seeing your boy in a loft picture, Not sure though.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for clarifying that. Nice that you get rescue dogs. Very pretty dog.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

BlackWing: Maybe your dog would be better off in a different home for that breed and your lack of time in training the dog maybe someone else would give her more attention rather then be thought of as just a money maker as well as your sloppy mistake of leaving your loft door open. If I wasn't so far away from you I would help you find her a more compatable home for all concerned. 
SmithFamilyLoft: Your pigeon around the neck statement made me take another look at you and for all this time I thought you were very educated and knowledgeable--maybe it works---but there are much better ways to correct a female dog if a person is willing to put time into it. That dead pigeon around the neck of a dog is just plain gross and outdated. My opinion....c.hert


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

C. Hert, Thanks for your input, We are on the same page with things

And Jay3 Thank you for your kind words. I hope I can do as good with my Pigeons some day


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Kalkbl said:


> Part One,
> 
> Dog, Actually Bird dog to be exact, And Pigeons.
> No chase, No Kill, Just hangs out
> ...


Gorgeous Pointer!
That's the way my Chocolate Lab is - I adopted him from an abuse/neglect situation when he was about 8 months old - had NO training or manners whatsoever! Within 1 year he was fully obedience trained and trained for duck hunting (I don't hunt but go thru the motions with his bumper to keep his mind busy and active!) I can take "Gunner" right into the loft with me and he will not touch the birds - although he does like to bump them with his nose and gives them "kisses".
Every dog should know "LEAVE IT" 
Just wanted to add - Years ago I had Irish Setters **Absolutely beautiful when they point!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

c.hert said:


> BlackWing: Maybe your dog would be better off in a different home for that breed and your lack of time in training the dog maybe someone else would give her more attention rather then be thought of as just a money maker as well as your sloppy mistake of leaving your loft door open. If I wasn't so far away from you I would help you find her a more compatable home for all concerned.
> SmithFamilyLoft: Your pigeon around the neck statement *made me take another look at you and for all this time I thought you were very educated and knowledgeable*--maybe it works---but there are much better ways to correct a female dog if a person is willing to put time into it. That dead pigeon around the neck of a dog is just plain gross and outdated. My opinion....c.hert


You might be correct, I am not a dog trainer. Could have my Master's for all you know....which certainly would make me educated, but if one has a different level of understanding in terms of dog training....does not mean a person is not "educated and knowledgeable"......just IMHO. 

Of course, if we were dealing with a dog trainer in this situation, we wouldn't have dead pigeons on our hands. What we apparently have, is a dangerous dog which kills pets. Personally, I would not retain a bird killing dog on my property for obvious reasons. My suggestion came from a dog trainer who was trying to get a dog to stop killing chickens. Maybe he is incorrect....maybe you are correct. Or maybe as a professional who earned his living from training dogs, he does know what he is talking about, and you do not. But, I don't think we should turn this into a dog training forum and debate. Even the discussion of training "hunting dogs" is really close to subject areas we really don't want to venture into. For those who are interested in such things, you can go onto Field and Stream or Guns and Ammo blog sites, and discuss your dog training methods till the cows come home. In hind site, I made a mistake in judgement, in even repeating any dog training methods I had heard.....but from what I understand, the dog avoided chickens forever more, could not stand to even get close to one.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This has nothing to do with dog training this has to do with very smart peoples lack of judgement when it comes to communication. That comment was gross and outdated. c.hert


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*wired*



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Sorry to hear of this disaster. If you wire one of the dead pigeons real good to your dog's collar, and then let it stay on it's collar untill it rots off, the dog will avoid pigeons going forward. It is a little gross, but I heard it will work.
> 
> At my house, the dog would already be sitting at the SPCA awaiting it's fate.


 I have heard of farmers doing this with dead chickens and rumor does have it as it work's. If I was in that situation I would use one of those invisible fence deals and set the dogs collar on high, I guarantee it will only take a few tries to get to the loft and your dog will go no further then the wire. >Kevin


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I think alot of people are going over board on this subject. The first post to this thread just gave info on how the dog got in killed some birds. Not about hating the dog ect. Things happens I had a cat get in years ago killed some birds. learned from it And went on how about we let this thread die down. Its going nothing but down hill.


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

I too am done reading this post. I have to say tho, sadly after reading a few comments I have lost some respect for a few of you old timers in the pigeon world, either due to your post being badly worded or your voiced opinions rubbed me the wrong way. Then again, on a few others I have learned to respect you a bit more for your more canine friendly opinions.

The dead animal around the neck, yep it has been known to be effective, it is also know to be a health issue to dog & human. YUK!

Owners carelessness with dog or lack of training, does not warrant a death sentence straight to SPCA. 

Live & learn. But nice to see some true colors coming out in regards to animals tho, some surprised me & were disappointing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think often when humans make careless mistakes, and cause this kind of thing to happen, they just don't want to take the responsibility for their part in it. They blame someone or something else. It still comes down to, humans are supposed to be the smart ones, and dogs do what they are bred to do. You should know your dog, and what he/she would do in pretty much most situations. It is up to the human to train the dog, or keep them apart. He is the responsible one, not the animal. I love my dogs, and there is just no way I would be able to blame them for a situation that I caused. I hope I would learn from it. Again, I am sorry for the loss of the bird, I really am, but the dog shouldn't be held responsible, the one who left the door open for ANY predator to be able to get in is responsible. Hard lesson learned. And believe me, we ALL make mistakes, and we all hopefully learn from them. I know I have.


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## Bella (May 2, 2009)

The dog can be retrained - it is just a matter of exposing the dog to the object of it's obsession until the dog ultimately becomes bored with it.

The tying of it to it's collar - well, as gross as it may be - it runs on the same principle - exposure, overexposure, in a controlled situation - until boredom (and in that case -revulsion) becomes the reaction.

From the dog's point of view - your pigeons have been teasing it. If the dog has never been allowed near them, but obviously would see them through the aviary - it is the dog's natural reaction to perceive the birds as being there solely for the purpose of driving it mad. 

Keeping the dog away from the birds will never teach the dog not to eat them - it will only teach the dog that if the opportunity ever arises - he'd better be quick about it.

When we first got chickens we kept our dogs away from them, with the chickens penned up. This drove our youngest dog insane - he really wanted to get to them. 
The result was that when one of our chickens happened to hop the fence - it was a goner. We lost several chickens within a month. In truth - we had accidentally "trained" the dog to resent the chickens.

We decided to control the situation and started bringing the dog in the coop for feeding time, on a leash. We even held chickens for him, so he could touch them and smell them. Eventually it was no big deal anymore, and now all of our chickens are free range birds and the dogs don't care a bit.

When I brought a two day old pigeon in the house that needed to be hand raised - I didn't want to make the same mistake I had with the chickens. So I fed the bird between the dogs legs at every feeding. Within days the dog was merely curious - even affectionate. And the relationship has stayed that way...the bird's still in the house - and the pigeon and the dog play together.

So, this is my reformed chicken killer with his pigeon friend Spunky:


















A little time and patience goes a long way.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

BlackWing said:


> What a Disastrous weekend for me ................
> 
> My Miniature Schnauzer female got into my loft and out of 40 pigeons to those from she had to kill my best hen. The hen was sitting on a baby (that luckily escaped the ordeal) She then tore into my babies on the floor and the rest is history. I never leave my lofts door open – I’m busy homing some of my birds. One of my red cocks came back over the weekend after 2 weeks missing inaction. He did not want o go thru the trap and I open the door for him. Some friend come over and i went into the house for 5 minutes and my wife said to me the dog is barking outside. As I went down to the loft I knew she was in my loft and I was already calculating the damage in my mind. Yip, she took out my hen, luckily her babies was ok and the cock bird will have to feed the baby by himself.


Read above never was it said he hated his dog he was going to get rid of his dog. He told what happened that let the dog get to the birds. He was just telling what happened and then everyone went crazy over this post. Kinda like a PACK OF DOGS so I think we need to read then post


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

After reading your posting by themselves I now come to the conclusion that you might very well be a responsible dog owner and it was just in error that she got in the loft in the first place because of people looking at your puppies and now you know to be more careful. I guess we are kind of a Pack of Dogs like re lee suggested but that sometimes is the nature of the postings and the sense we get out of it. And the only reason is because we love Dogs and Pigeons and felt bad for each and I apologize for not taking your postings all by themselves Blackwing and good luck with your bad but beautiful dog and I hope you and your family has successful training of it if you desire. No harm intended....c.hert


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2010)

not all dogs are alike and should be treated so , it was a mistake this person had made and I think they know so now so why do you keep pounding it in that there are other ways to handle it way after the fact when people should take all the precautions they cant befor ethigs happen thats all I have to say on this subject


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

There is no pounding in here LokotaLoft for my above posting #42 was a direct apology to Blackwing and I hope it is understood by blackwing. re lee in her above posting has asked us to read the postings better which I did by themselves and this put another focus on the matter. c.hert


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

c.hert said:


> This has nothing to do with dog training this has to do with *very smart peoples lack of judgement *when it comes to communication. *That comment was gross and outdated*. c.hert


 Well first it was I lacked education....and knowledge...and was outdated...and now I am a very smart person who lacks judgement, because in your opinion...the information is outdated...and gross.....so which is it ? How can one be both "Very Smart" and yet lack knowledge and education, and be outdated ?! 

A loft full of dead pigeons is gross. Having the SPCA put down a perfectly healthy pet dog because of lack of training is gross. 

A lot of my education and life experience is dated........I may have been around and training animals before you were born. Perhaps you can share the "enlightened" view...and modern education theories....which proves that all the older methods are now wrong....and only the new modern training ideas are correct ? (A few links will work)

That way I can update myself on the latest methods prescribed by the approved Universities. So that, gawd forbid, I won't refer back to "outdated" methods....that would make one...uneducated, lacking knowledge, and outdated ....and/or now lacking judgement, outdated, and gross. Because now I am concerned, that a major portion, if not all of my knowledge, is now outdated.

Gawd...now there might be something wrong with my communication as well ? How did I ever make it this far in life with all of these handicaps ?!....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren...I think you missed the whole point.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

​


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Lets raise that white flag because I surrender...lol c.hert


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

c.hert said:


> Lets raise that white flag because I surrender...lol c.hert


But you're leaving - WTH?

I believe I already typed this once today - the world is full of stupid people who, even with the best of intentions, do [say] stupid things. NOBODY is exempt. It has something to do with free will and personal opinion.


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## yopigeonguy (Oct 22, 2009)

I believe in the first post he was venting.. now we are up to this ^...


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

yopigeonguy said:


> I believe in the first post he was venting.. now we are up to this ^...


You did note that the first post was edited after the initial 7 replies were made? Who knows what the original post may have said to set the initial tone of the thread and, at this point, it's irrelevant.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Very astute observation but the white flag is flying and if he edited his copy to say it in a different way he had a perfect right to do so but thanks for your concern on how we got to the point we did with the postings making us all innocent of course because we were just following the orginal line of thought...very astute you are...but the white flag is flying over another train of thought that is still out there flying free....Thank you Cyreen...c.hert


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Warren...I think you missed the whole point.


Why am I not surprised ? The medicine tastes bad, and does not feel good. 
Much less painful, to just hope for the best.


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

c.hert said:


> ...making us all innocent of course because we were just following the orginal line of thought...very astute you are...


No - don't you go all "Judy Garland/Wizard of Oz" mushy-goodbye on me. Innocent, my @$$ - I distinctly said...



Cyreen said:


> ...the world is full of _stupid _people who, even with the best of intentions, do [say] stupid things. *NOBODY *is exempt. It has something to do with free will and personal opinion.


and I meant it.


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## BTut (Oct 18, 2009)

Blackwing,
Sorry to hear about you loss.We all make mistakes and it sucks but we learn from them hopefully.As of last week I was getting lazy locking up my loft at night i never blocked the buckbars in my loft . Around 10 pm i went out in the yard to close my garage door when i heard my birds going crazy in the loft. investigating the sound of flapping wings i was surprised to find a large raccoon in my loft.Thankfully i must have just caught him when he just entered he had not done any damage to my birds only to my buckbars that he bent going the wrong way as he made his fast exit. Now every night i make sure the loft is locked before it gets dark like clock work. One lesson learned
I am not serving hin dinner 
Bill Tut.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Why am I not surprised ? The medicine tastes bad, and does not feel good.
> Much less painful, to just hope for the best.


I have seen the light and I am changing my opinion on the whole blaming the dog thing. Seeing as the popular opinion is to blame the human and not the dog...I'm going to breed my pit bulls now. I wasn't planning on it because of the bad press the breed has been getting in the media, but I see the light now. It is NOT the dogs fault if it kills something..its the humans fault for letting the dog do it. I will just have to make sure the puppies are properly trained by responsible owners. Thank you Peta for enlightening me.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Three problems with this topic...

1. He left his coop open.

2. He left his dog out, while his coop was open.







3. He talked about it on Pigeon-Talk... 



Don


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

cbx1013 said:


> Three problems with this topic...
> 
> 1. He left his coop open.
> 
> ...



LMAO!!!!!!!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

cbx1013 said:


> Three problems with this topic...
> 
> 1. He left his coop open.
> 
> ...


BOY...did you ever sum the whole point up.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> BOY...did you ever sum the whole point up.


LOL, In a NUTSHELL!
We ALL have opinions...........Isn't that what a forum is about? 
I'm still sorry he lost his favorite hen. If it were me - I'd still be beating MYSELF over the head for letting it happen!!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, In a NUTSHELL!
> We ALL have opinions...........Isn't that what a forum is about?
> I'm still sorry he lost his favorite hen. If it were me - I'd still be beating *MYSELF *over the head for letting it happen!!!



*Exactly....*


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2010)

Charis said:


> *Exactly....*


and yet life goes on.. you have to think in the way that it could have been a much worse outcome... animals of all kinds want to eat our birds and will do so any chance they get , we as their protectors have to try and keep that from happening ,which means we have to think of ways to avoid that at all costs .. fort knoxing your coop will help get you there


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, In a NUTSHELL!
> We ALL have opinions...........*Isn't that what a forum is about?*
> I'm still sorry he lost his favorite hen. If it were me - I'd still be beating MYSELF over the head for letting it happen!!!


 Yes, it sure is. Hopefully, going forward, one can express an opinion without having those that disagree with your opinion, turn it into a name calling situation. Once in a while, we are able to conduct a good academic discussion. But, we often digress to where personal attacks regarding a person's educational background, experience, care and concern for animals, etc. etc. seems to be more of the issue, then the subject matter itself. 

IMHO, one should be able to make a case for the theory or ideas that one is attempting to present or make, and be able to provide some logical reasons or explanations. Not saying we need the exact kind of decorum you might have at a law or medical school....but I was hoping we could get beyond the Jr. High level of thinking, that my way is correct, because you are a jerk face. Or, whatever the current school yard name calling might be. And maybe, the Jr. High example is providing to much credit for some of the levels of conversation. Maybe we are a few grades below that level at times....just my two cents.

One thing, I think we can all agree on....is it is always best to secure your birds in the loft. Don't know how many stories I have heard over the years, from everything from hawks, cats, dogs, etc. etc. have gotten into the loft, and the results are almost always bad. And all of these countless discussions, almost always, include the debate as to if it is the hawks, cat's, dog's, etc. etc. fault, or the human who allowed the security breach to occur ? Whose fault it is, would seem obvious to me, but regardless, if one does not secure their birds, in time, something bad will happen. May just take a few careless moments....or it could take years before something bad happens...but sooner or later...it will. And typically, there is always someone, who proclaims it may be different for them, since nothing bad as ever happened to them before. And since it has yet to happen, in their mind, they feel secure from harm because....well....nothing has happened before. It not only applies to your pigeon loft, but the back door of your home as well.


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yes, it sure is. Hopefully, going forward, one can express an opinion without having those that disagree with your opinion, turn it into a name calling situation...


I might be new here, but I still think you're a cute puppy. Now... stay still, I think there are a couple heads around here to tie to your collar.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Cyreen said:


> I might be new here, but I still think you're a cute puppy. Now... stay still, I think there are a couple heads around here to tie to your collar.



I don't care who you are....Now that...is funny !


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

Hi All

I have read thru the comments and well a lot was said.
I have decided to keep the dog and after all it was and still is my responsibility to keep my pigeons and my dog save. The reason I started this post was to show that the predators is not always on the outside but also within. I thing we sometimes forget about the basic fundamentals with our birds.

We need to remember all people are deferent and do thing differently and will have deferent opinions’ on certain aspects. It was really a pity that some guys took certain comments that was placed personally. We need to remember that feature fancier read this blog as well and what they read and experience on this chat room can make or break there decision to start with racing pigeons. To attack each other’s personally is unjustified. All of us have the right to our opinion and therefore we need to respect the opinion of other.

I have added a photo of the dog.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your dog is very cute, and the puppy is precious. Sleeping away..........................not a care in the world.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

BlackWing said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have read thru the comments and well a lot was said.
> I have decided to keep the dog and after all it was and still is my responsibility to keep my pigeons and my dog save. The reason I started this post was to show that the predators is not always on the outside but also within. I thing we sometimes forget about the basic fundamentals with our birds.
> ...


Im glad you are keeping the dog , just have to be more careful is all  good luck!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

BlackWing said:


> ......
> 
> *We need to remember all people are deferent and do thing differently and will have deferent opinions’ on certain aspects. It was really a pity that some guys took certain comments that was placed personally. We need to remember that future fanciers read this blog as well and what they read and experience on this chat room can make or break there decision to start with racing pigeons. To attack each other’s personally is unjustified. All of us have the right to our opinion and therefore we need to respect the opinion of other.*I have added a photo of the dog.


 I very much agree ! Good luck in the future !


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Your dog and her puppy are just precious!!!

I am so glad that you are keeping the dog.


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## birdkeeper (Jun 24, 2009)

Hey i am real sorry to hear about what happend in your loft and those poor birds but also i feel bad about your dog...because know since it has tasted pigeon blood, it will never be the same. i just hope this incident won't happen again my friend.


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

Hi guys

Just some feedback

I have stopped trying to teach her. Our season is starting in two weeks and the birds just go wild if they see her. She even chases flies ………………..

We kept the puppy and I have taken her into the loft and the pigeons react the same way towards the pup. My Rottweiler is around the loft everyday and no issues. She even stand at the door when I clean the loft and the birds stay calm.

I’m still keeping the dog


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well they are adorable dogs, but in being bred to be ratters, it's kinda hard to blame the dog for doing what it was bred to do. It hunts. I'd just make sure he didn't get into the loft. They really are good little dogs.


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