# swollen toe, no toe nail left



## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi, 
I had a big problem with puppy pads.

Bowie, my neuro pigeon, when stressed turns in circle.
I didn't realise it had damaged the puppy pad he was on when spinning, always in the same place. I always change the dirty ones and didn't see this...
3 days ago, in the morning I saw him lying on his side, the puppy pad twisted around his feet...
I've had a hard time to take it off. On string was around the tip of his toe. It had gone very deep the tip of the toe very swollen.

I gave him a drop of metacam and put some cream on his feet as I saw no injury.

1 day later his whole toe was swollen and I could see that the puppy pad had burnt his skin on the feet and leg ( white patches instead of red scales skin )

1 day later I saw no improvement. I decided to let him have a bath and... the toe nail fell off !
He only has the soft nerve tissue now.

Please, how can I protect this ? It must be so painful...
His toe is still swollen.
I feel terribly sorry that I didn't change this pad in 3 days...

His neurological symptoms has gone really bad now 😞 his neck twisting is here again.

Thanks for your advices


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Here are some pictures
























Poor baby... all the neurological simptoms are back.










Sorry for the mess... it only took 10 minuted to turn my coutch into a seed bombing playground 😀


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Is the string out of his toe? Hope he is better soon. Pigeons are tough. They can survive without a toe. At work, i sawa pelican doing well although missing afoot.


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi, thanks for your answer !
Yes well I think the string is off. These synthetical fibers are so thin...
Tomorrow I'll look with a magnifier !
I know they are tough but I'd love to know a way for it to heal quickly and painlessly, I know I'm asking a lot but I hate to see him like that, he starts falling over again losing balance and I will have to put him in the small cat travelling box again 😞

I only put some betadine ( iodine solution ) on it today. Should I try to put a bandage on it ?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Oh, I use too puppy pad trainers but it never happened a similar accident 😱...unfortunately pigeons are very expert in having strange accidents... 😭

Betadine is ok. I would gently put an antibiotic cream twice a day for some days (I usually decide how many days on a case-by-case basis). This way you can protect him from the risk of infection. 
Later you could apply a healing cream. I have never tried them but a friend of mine suggested me two products (you don't need a prescription):

"Vous pouvez aussi acheter en pharmacie, pour dans 4 jours, une pommade cicatrisante style CICAPLAST ou autre moi j'en ai une super en pulvérisateur qui s'appelle CICANOV, mais c'est cher et on ne la trouve pas dans toutes les pharmacies". 

If he is in pain you can give him metacam for a few days (a drop once or twice a day). 

Keep him in a comfortable and safe place. Keep the area clean because poops or seeds could make the issue worse. 

Give him a cuddle from me... ❤


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi, thanks a lot they didn't have the cicanov I took the cicaplast.
The vet gave me an antibiotic cream but said there is no wound and that the anti inflammatory cream would maybe work better. 
I sticked to the antibiotic one, I don't know if it was a good choice.








So Bowie is now back in the living room on the coutch during the day and in the cat carrier at night.
Nervous symptoms are much much better.
He is moulting so it's dusty and messy !

The tip of his toe is now black...










There is no thread left, I looked with a magnifier.
But it looks like the blood is not passing there... 😞


I know now that pain causes his twisting head because I give him metacam twice a day and 2 hours before the dose he starts all the nervous symptoms...
Is it like gangrene ? Will it spread or "only" fall off ?
I mean : will he survive if I don't get this part of the toe amputated ? 😞

They do get into weird accident don't they ? Still please make this an example for your birds : even if not dirty, please change your puppy training pads daily...


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Gangrene smells bad. Do you notice any bad smell? If it is really gangrene (I mean the type which involves an infection) It will spread to the body.
I'm not a vet but I think it's not your case. I think that in similar cases the tissue "only" falls off (unfortunately I see every day a lot of pigeon with missing toes or feet...).

I suggested an antibiotic cream because in my opinion the exposed soft tissue may be at risk of infection. But I'm not a vet lol.

Yes, as I said unfortunately pigeons are very expert in having strange accidents... once my brother found one of his pigeons with a clothes pin on the foot (or leg I don't remember exactly) 🙄... Nothing serious fortunately...
The problem of puppy pad trainers is that they can easily get damaged by nails...

Anyway, pay attention to any bad smell and keep the toe monitored.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I would bring him again to the vet. In any case the fall of a piece of toe is not an "easy" experience... Better ask to a vet what is the best thing to do...

I should ask that to my brother but if I'm not wrong our vet amputated a part of toe (or a toe) to a couple of our pigeons (it's my brother who brought them to the vet).


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I asked to my brother about the toes. He confirmed me that the vet amputated a black toe to one of his rescued pigeons (he brought her to the vet because of a broken or dislocated wing, I don't know exactly. She also had hair around her toe). He said that the vet used a sort of nails clipper and that he cut the dead toe in a few seconds (in fact my brother said that at first he didn't understand what he was doing). He said that the pigeon looked unperturbed so she didn't feel any pain. He doesn't remember if he had to apply a cream.
I would ask to the vet if it's better to amputate it or to wait for its "natural" fall.


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi thank you for asking, you're an angel ! 
I call the vet today but I doubt that he will cut it as he already told me that he would not do any kind of operation on pigeons ( crop flush or bandage for example ). 
He has feelings in the toe. It is sore. And it's not cold. It's rather hot and swollen. It doesn't smell at all.
I feel really bad for him 😞 but he looks alright appart from that. He eats a lot, preens a lot, always wants to perch on my arm, I can't believe he is feral !


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

The toe of my brother's pigeon was surely dry and so dead. When you call the vet explain him how the toe looks like (swollen and so on. At least it's a good thing that there is no bad smell) and ask for an opinion.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi! How is Bowie's toe doing?


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi ! He got better but now he is bad again... about the toe, the vet told me he can do nothing it's not infected.
The neurological symptoms are back +++








He's normal and all of a sudden he goes really bad.
I give him metacam in case it's the foot but it doesn't seem to make any difference.
The vet said I can try the 3 weeks antobiotic like the one I'm doing for Kiwi because it's a small molecule it goes through the "barrière méningée" in french sorry I don't know the translation.
It could work if he has a brain infection...
He also said that maybe it would be kinder to put him down... 😞








He does not seem really good.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Did you do any changes to his environment recently that might have caused the neurological symptoms to return? Don't put him down please. You are his only hope for survival. To the vet he is just another pigeon, to you he is special.


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

No nothing has changed. 
Te symptoms had returned because of his foot.
So I took him back with us in the dog carrier and on the sofa when we are near. He was much better until 3 days ago with nothing else changing.
He only wants to eat sun flower seeds now lol. I have to force feed anything else.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Honestly I would change vet... As you know, I have some disabled birds (Geordi, my blind pigeon; Goliabianca, our PMV pigeon who did not recover in a proper way from his neurological symptoms; etc) and, in their own way, they all are happy birds. 
My vet is against euthanasia for disabled animals... When in summer 2015 someone brought him baby Geordi, he looked for a good family for him (lol, he immediately thought about me and contacted me 😁).
You know, they are like a disabled child/adult, they can have a good and happy life. Just different from our lives. Of course, that's my own opinion and experience. 

When Marshall had his terribile week (last spring he had his neurological symptoms back, he had horrible seizures, they looked like epileptic fits) I bought him a small soft dog's bed (chihuahua size) and I put it into his home. You could buy one too and put it into the carrier. This way he will feel more comfortable. I covered it with a puppy pad trainer (as you had that bad experience you could use something else..). I attach a pic so you can get an idea of it. 

I still have some candilat tablets. In case the antibiotic won't help him and if you would like to try them I could send you a few tablets (of course, as a "gift" for Bowie 🎁😁). If you see any improvement you could ask to the vet to give you a package. You don't have to give me your own address, you could give me a post box or the address of a trusted shopkeeper (like your boulanger lol), etc.


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi Colombina, yes I have a small dog bed but It's too big to make a nest, he still falls on his back all the time. I'll put the dog bed instead of the polar blancket it will be safer for him, thank you.
The only time he is calm is on my mother's knees when she puts a hand on his back ( when she removes the hand, he goes like on the picture with head on the floor and tail up ). I can't ask her to stay like that all day long hehe. Yes it looks like epilepsy seizures, he puts his head low, is pushing with his legs stiff and goes upside down. it's weird.
I would love you to send me the tablets if you don't mind ? I'll send you my adress by private message ? And money for the post aswell.

For the vet... I know he is not an avian vet but the problem is that I've tried dozens in the villages around mine before I found one who would see my pigeons.
I don't have a car and appart from going to the vet school I'm clueless... and I really didn't like the vet school to be honnest...


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Don't worry, it's my Christmas gift for Bowie 🎄🎁, no need to give me money back. Ok, give me an address by pm.

When those seizures have started? Exactly after the toe accident? From your description they look like Marshall's seizures. I had to spend a whole nigh awake keeping him into my hands... They lasted for a whole week then they stopped and, as time goes by, he came back to his normal life. His wife Apple was there for him all the time (only at the beginning she got scared), we only brought her back to the other room at night because we feared that inadvertently she could harm him. Surely she helped him to fight and to recover in a faster way. I remember that often he pushed his stiff leg trying to get up... Sometimes, with our help, he was able to get up... I'm sure he fought for Apple. Once I saw them sitting together on the sofa: he had his head on the sofa, he looked all "twisted". Well, he moved backwards because he wanted to be perfectly aligned, side by side, with Apple. I was so touched when I saw that. Apple learned to live with Marshall's epileptic fits. She patiently stayed there with him. She gave him all her support and love. She gave him kisses because she wanted to stimulate him! Each morning she immediately run to Marshall from her room to his room.

When I said that I would change vet I meant that I would change him not because he is not an avian vet (I know that it's hard to find a vet who accepts to care about pigeons) but because a vet who suggests euthanasia for disabled animals (pigeons, cats, dogs or what else) does not sound good...as I said, it's just my own opinion and experience...I see my disabled birds and they are all happy to be alive. They have a good life, just different from our lives (btw Apple is a broken wing pigeon).
I don't know where you exactly live but, in case Toulouse is not too far away from your location, a friend of mine confirmed me that Docteur Feix is very good. He treats pigeons.


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi, here are some good news :
Bowie toe tip fell off and it's looking pretty good. The bone is not trapped inside the skin and I was worried that it would be an open door for bacterias or that it would stay painfull every time it would touch something. 
The vet told me that it was alright and not to worry, as you said, they are very tough little birds ! 









He has less and less seizures and manages to eat and walk around ( he still looks dizzy with no balance ).









Colombina ( thank you so much ❤🥰 ) has sent me the medecine for his brain and I'm looking forward to test it !
He is still on antibiotics by the way.

I'll keep you updated !


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Selphiechen! I was wondering how Bowie is doing. I haven't heard from you since you received the tablets I sent you last October. 
Did they help?
You promised me a Christmas photo but I didn't receive it. I really hope that Bowie is fine!!! 

Please let us know something!


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi Colombina ! I am sorry I didn't reply, it has been a tough year.
Bowie is doing great, he is in couple with a little Pigeon called Bulle and she made her second egg yesterday.
The medicine you gave me made wonders, my vet did prescribe some more because when I stopped, his symptoms came back.
Since then he's been a lovely step dad for many rescued baby and young baby pigeons, including Bulle 😀

Thank you so much, for everything you did for Bowie and me.
Kiwi is fine aswell, he's in love with me but another pigeon who had only one wing called Élias is in love with him and he can't stand her, lol.
I will send you a picture for this christmas or halloween, because last chrismas was really sad in my family, again I'm sorry.
I've attached a video of Bowie bringing hay into his nest, video taken today, I don't know if you can see it ?
If not, I can send it on private message maybe ?








Big hugs to you, I hope that you, your family, pigeons and cat are fine.
Sarah


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

No need to thank me! 

I'm VERY VERY VERY happy to know that Bowie is doing great!!! I'm so glad to hear that the tablets helped him! It's nice to have a good news 😊!!! 

Thanks for the beautiful pics! It's wonderful to see him so straight and so healthy!!! He is a handsome guy! Even Bulle and the others are very cute.

There is no video attached... 

I'm also very happy to hear that Kiwi is fine!

Don't worry, no need to apologize. I'm sorry to hear about your bad year and bad family issues. I really hope that everything is ok now.

I'm looking forward to see the Christmas or Halloween pic!

A big hug 🤗!


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi, thank you for your kind message 😘
I posted the video on you tube because I don't know how to do it 😁




about Bulle, I found her in july, she was 15 days old and in very bad condition we nearly lost her..
She is still small and very young to lay eggs but she's the boss now, even if she's tiny, the others have to stay away from her haha


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the video. I'm sooo glad to see him so healthy and happy 😁!!!

Lol I see, Bulle had a boss face even when baby 😆!!!


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## Selphiechen (Aug 6, 2021)

Hello there I hope you are fine, your cats and pigeons too ❤
Bowie had a tough time this month, his symptoms came back for 3 weeks. 🥺
Today he seems to feel good again and sends you his best wishes 🥳


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi!!! I'm very glad to hear from you and from Bowie!

Thanks for the beautiful Christmas pic ❤🎄😍!!!

I am sorry to hear about his tough time (unfortunately that happened even to my pigeon Marshall) but the important thing is to see that now he is doing great! 

How is Bulle doing? 

I wish you, your family, Bowie, Bulle and all the gang a Happy New Year ✨ 🎆 💫 🍾 !

A big hug to Bowie and Bulle 🤗❤!


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