# Help with a 5 days old baby laughing dove



## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Hello,

A laughing dove had laid two white eggs somewhere inside our staircase out of eyesight. It had access to the nest via a small open window. Unfortunately, we weren't aware of the nest and the eggs and closed the window when the bird wasn't there. After a day, we found it out and opened the window again and the bird did come back, but it didn't the next days. Surprisingly, each of the two eggs hatched out after a couple of days, probably due to summer heat!
One of the baby birds fell out of the nest (maybe in search for its mother) and died the next day although we fed it several times. But the other survived and it's 5 days old now. I feed it with this via an insulin syringe (without needle). It's a bit hard because it doesn't open its mouth like baby sparrows would do. So it's a little complicated to tell if the baby bird is hungry or not.

From yesterday, I noticed a section under its neck is enlarged but very soft. I'm afraid if this is a sore crop or something, or maybe this is normal? It pooped several times today, but the poops are small. I attached six photos from different angles of the baby bird for you to see. I also noticed a yellow part under its belly and its anus looks like a bit strange too, but it's still responsive and swallows the food by its tiny tongue. I keep it inside various towels to make sure it's warm, but I don't use any heating devices.

I don't have a scale with grams accuracy so I don't know its weight.

Please help if this is a normal thing like this picture:










or images on this website or not.

Thank you so much.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The section that you are referring to is the crop, and it's normal to be soft and large after being fed. Please google on you-tube "how to feed baby pigeon" and there's plenty of video's that will show you exactly how to do it. I know you have a dove, but the young feed similar to a pigeon baby by sticking it's mouth into the beak of the parent and sucking up the food. Just feed your's less than in the video's, cause a baby pigeon will need much more food than a baby dove.

You can also google www.pigeonrescue.co.uk and go to the section "caring for baby pigeons" where you will find plenty of info. You have to keep the baby warm 35-38 degrees Celsius. He needs warmth to be able to digest the food, if too cold he will starve to death cause food does not get absorbed. If the spot where the eggs hatched, is nice and warm, I would rather put him there inbetween feedings. As long as his safe in that spot. 

So important: keep him warm and don't overfill the crop otherwise food can enter the trachea and he will aspirate. As long as "what goes in comes out" it will all be good. There should be plenty of droppings inbetween feedings. Don't handle him too much after being fed. Congrats that he made it this far, it's not easy raising them from day 1. What are you feeding him by the way?


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Marina B said:


> The section that you are referring to is the crop, and it's normal to be soft and large after being fed. Please google on you-tube "how to feed baby pigeon" and there's plenty of video's that will show you exactly how to do it. I know you have a dove, but the young feed similar to a pigeon baby by sticking it's mouth into the beak of the parent and sucking up the food. Just feed your's less than in the video's, cause a baby pigeon will need much more food than a baby dove.
> 
> You can also google www.pigeonrescue.co.uk and go to the section "caring for baby pigeons" where you will find plenty of info. You have to keep the baby warm 35-38 degrees Celsius. He needs warmth to be able to digest the food, if too cold he will starve to death cause food does not get absorbed. If the spot where the eggs hatched, is nice and warm, I would rather put him there inbetween feedings.  As long as his safe in that spot.
> 
> So important: keep him warm and don't overfill the crop otherwise food can enter the trachea and he will aspirate. As long as "what goes in comes out" it will all be good. There should be plenty of droppings inbetween feedings. Don't handle him too much after being fed. Congrats that he made it this far, it's not easy raising them from day 1. What are you feeding him by the way?


Thanks for the reply. That section remained about the size shown in the photo for a day and made me think if it's stuck or something. My question is how can I check if its crop is in normal conditions? Also that yellow section on its belly?

I feed it something called "BABY PÂTÉE UNIVERSELLE" which I put its link in my previous post.

I'm not sure if its artifical nest that I created is warm to that temperatures, but its original nest has the potential for the baby to fall a long distance therefore injuring and killing it, like his brother/sister.

It doesn't poop too much like a baby sparrow. It droppings are small in size and less frequent.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You will have to keep him at the right temperature. A heat pad works perfect, I don't know if you can get one over there. Even one for reptiles will also work. And a thermometer to measure the exact temperature. If you can't get a heatpad, an ordinary lightbulb hanging down about 30 cm above his head will also provide heat.

If they are not warm enough, the food will just get stuck in the crop and he will develop sour crop. He will die from this. Can you get human baby applesauce (without sugar)? You mix some of this into his food to help with digestion. The food also needs to be lukewarm when you are feeding him. How much are you feeding him?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can't help you with the yellow section close to the anus. The crop will be totally flat when there's no food inside. As you are feeding him, you will see the crop expands. The link I gave, www.pigeonrescue.co.uk shows exactly what a full crop looks like. Don't turn the baby on his back or handle him too much after being fed, if food enters the trachea he will aspirate and die.

The food you are giving seems ok.


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Thanks, Marina, but unfortunately I found it dead this morning with the crop still enlarged, not flat. It was my first experience with baby doves. I have had experiences with baby sparrows but they seem to be a lot different than baby doves. For example, I used to keep a baby sparrow inside a place with room temperature and the baby successfully grew. Baby sparrows are naturally hot when touched. I'm guessing there were three mistakes that I made, one was not providing a heat source and using a thermometer thus the baby bird couldn't absorb the food, the second was the fact that I kept his prepared food mixed with water inside a container for a day and fed it with that, and the third mistake maybe was overfeeding it.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sorry you lost him. Think the lack of heat was the main problem here. A fresh batch of food should also be mixed every time at feeding time. Thanks for trying. We all make mistakes, also happened to me in the past.


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Marina B said:


> Sorry you lost him. Think the lack of heat was the main problem here. A fresh batch of food should also be mixed every time at feeding time. Thanks for trying. We all make mistakes, also happened to me in the past.


Thanks for your understanding, I'm sorry too, but that was a big lesson and experience for me.
Do you know why baby sparrows are not that sensitive to temperature?

I also found an older baby sparrow a few days ago, but that's a lot easier to care. It easily opens its mouth, but I managed to place it in a disposable mug filled with paper tissues inside a cage in my balcony in such a way that there's a small path that only adult sparrows can enter the cage. Happily, there are lots of adult sparrows that enter the cage and feed him so the baby sparrow would grow wild and not domestic.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Surely a newly hatched sparrow will also need additional heat, at least until they start developing feathers. Maybe the one that you found already had enough feathers to provide warmth and that's why he survived.

Interesting about the sparrow getting fed in the cage. I suppose when he can fly one day he will leave with the other sparrows. Maybe it's the parents coming to feed him?


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Marina B said:


> Surely a newly hatched sparrow will also need additional heat, at least until they start developing feathers. Maybe the one that you found already had enough feathers to provide warmth and that's why he survived.
> 
> Interesting about the sparrow getting fed in the cage. I suppose when he can fly one day he will leave with the other sparrows. Maybe it's the parents coming to feed him?


I don't know, but I have had raised a baby sparrow once from its early days *without* any heat sources until it was able to fly, but unfortunately, a magpie attacked it and left only the baby sparrow's feathers and beak, that scene was horrible. That's why I use a cage now, last summer I successfully released a grown sparrow using this method (cage).


The adult sparrows who come in to feed the baby are very cautious and immediately leave after giving the food to the baby. I don't know if they are its parents but mostly I have seen a male sparrow feeding it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I believe that Marina is right, in that it is the parents that are feeding him. Usually other adults won't feed anothers baby. 

In the future, if you should have to hand feed another pigeon or dove, this would be the best method in which to do that, and more natural for the baby.

http://urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1aPHzKZaQE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s5ZY3U2lKU&feature=related


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I believe that Marina is right, in that it is the parents that are feeding him. Usually other adults won't feed anothers baby.
> 
> In the future, if you should have to hand feed another pigeon or dove, this would be the best method in which to do that, and more natural for the baby.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much.

Would an adult dove grown by humans survive in nature or it becomes a domestic pet?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Always a difficult question to answer. If your's had survived, it might have been human imprinted (would not have known it's a dove) and I would have suggested you keep him. When you find them at 2 weeks and older (that's my experience) they remain a bit wild especially if you don't spend a lot of time with them. These ones I release, unfortunately you don't always see them afterwards and then one always wonder if they have survived or not. The really tame ones (human imprinted), I keep.

In nature the parents teach them where to find food, shelter and escape from predators. When raised by humans, they don't have that survival instinct. Before releasing, they have to spend time outside in an aviary to get used to the area. You also have to provide them with a food source to come back to if need to.

How is your sparrow doing? He will survive, will follow the one that's feeding him and will learn all the survival skills necessary.


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## Sepehr (Jul 13, 2017)

Marina B said:


> Always a difficult question to answer. If your's had survived, it might have been human imprinted (would not have known it's a dove) and I would have suggested you keep him. When you find them at 2 weeks and older (that's my experience) they remain a bit wild especially if you don't spend a lot of time with them. These ones I release, unfortunately you don't always see them afterwards and then one always wonder if they have survived or not. The really tame ones (human imprinted), I keep.
> 
> In nature the parents teach them where to find food, shelter and escape from predators. When raised by humans, they don't have that survival instinct. Before releasing, they have to spend time outside in an aviary to get used to the area. You also have to provide them with a food source to come back to if need to.
> 
> How is your sparrow doing? He will survive, will follow the one that's feeding him and will learn all the survival skills necessary.


The baby sparrow just flew yesterday thanks to its parents and other adult sparrows who took care of him/her. He spent a day before it hiding on the ground, maybe he was a little anxious about his first flight!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That is wonderful news. Thanks for helping him.


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