# Antibiotics - green poop?



## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Can antibiotics or anti-fungals cause a bird's poop to turn green? My bird has been on amikacin and diflucan for a couple of days and I saw her produce a very green poop this morning. Is that normal? 

I do notice that their poop color varies over time, but was specifically wondering what effect the medicines might have.

I thought I'd see what information I could get here before I bother the vet 

Thanks everyone!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Bumping up.

Terry


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL, sorry to hear your bird is ill. Amikacin and Diflucan (Fluconazole) are pretty big guns to be using, what exactly does the vet think is wrong with your little guy? Best thing would be to post a few photos of his droppings, and one of him as well, so we all could have a look, you may get more responses that way as well. How is he eating and drinking, how old is he, first time ill, any vomiting, how is the crop emptying, was he on other meds before the ones he is currently on, only bird?

Karyn


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi Karyn,

Thanks for the response! She had a fluid-filled abcess on her leg. The vet drained it and bandaged it and gave me the meds to give her for 10 days. She is otherwise healthy. Flightless because of a permanent wing injury (and only one good eye), but healthy. She’s still eating and drinking and acting normal. No vomiting that I know of. She’s currently sitting on eggs too. They won’t hatch, they never do. I believe that her partner’s wing injury that fused into a strange position prevents him from properly mating with her. But they go through all the motions, make their nest and sit on the eggs pretty regularly. They seem happy doing all that. I’m not sure how old she is. She was brought to me several years ago by a neighbor that found her very weak and unable to fly. She had a broken wing. I didn’t think she’d make it, but she did and I’ve had her ever since. She has never been sick. I have a total of 3 birds, this one, her boyfriend and another female. She is the one standing up in the picture next to my posts.

The poop isn’t quite so green now. It was very green the day I posted. Now it’s more normal in color but has become kind of watery (picture attached).

I have seen their poop vary in color and texture from time to time and as I understand it (from reading through the poop info on this site!), that’s normal.

Is it expected that those type of medicines would change their poop? I would assume yes, but since I really don’t know, I thought I’d ask here.

Should I give her some probiotics when she’s done being treated?

She goes back to the vet this week, so I can ask him about that too.

Thanks again!


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## khawaja kashif (Aug 15, 2010)

hello 
give them ampecilline 500mg capsule add in 1/2 liter water consequently 5 to 7 dayz or the other way give them trimethoprime+sulfadiazine 1cc liquid in 2 liter of drinking water this is a vet product,safe ur birds for many virus diseases
regards 
kashif
pakistan


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## khawaja kashif (Aug 15, 2010)

hello 
give them ampecilline 500mg capsule add in 1/2 liter water consequently 5 to 7 dayz or the other way give them trimethoprime+sulfadiazine 1cc liquid in 2 liter of drinking water this is a vet product,safe ur birds for many virus diseases.and also give them fish oil capsul one cap daily.i think ur bird stomach disorder.
regards 
kashif
pakistan


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Good advice in a different situation but if the pigeon is on Fluconizole I don't think one should add a "-cillin" type of antibiotic.

In my experience, the only alarming "green" is the bright, pastel-y lime-green sorta poops. Those are usually very bad news.

These poops don't look bad, particularly for a pigeon on a med regimen.

Is the abscess better ?

Probiotics afterward are always a good idea to jump-start their gut back to equilibrium, but not 100% necessary as their good bacteria will come back eventually...particularly given you are not releasing her ever.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL, sorry, I somehow missed your reply to this thread, but because of Jaye's post, I saw it today.

With the Amikacin, did the vet do a series of pre-loaded syringes for you to take home and a suspension of the Fluconazole, what dose and frequency are you giving for both? The droppings do look off, but it would be helpful to have the information on the meds before commenting further. Moreover, as you most likely know, when a hen is sitting eggs, their dropping can go way off from normal and can have a high odor to them as well at times. Also, unless you don't mind having "oops" babies, I would not always it take for granted the eggs always will be infertile, you just never know, the male might just get the trick done one of these times, so please always candle them at 7 days or so, to make sure you don't see any development taking place.

Yes, a round or two of probiotics after the med would be a good idea, just pick up a quality brand from your health food store's refrigerated section, A kind you would use yourself, as you will just really need one capsule and the rest you can use yourself. Just fill her seed dish with fresh seeds, add a few drops of very fresh olive oil, stir in a moment and then open a capsule, sprinkle about 1/2 over the seeds and stir in again, repeat in 2-3 days for the other 1/2 capsule.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi JGFL,




I have a handicapped Male Pigeon, one frozen Wing, one semi bad Leg, one bad Eye.


His mate, a severely 'wangley' PPMV survivor Hen.


Because they were both sort of vulnerable, I had set them up into an ample Cage for a while, where, I figured they would be safe, and could cuddle and have peace together...they made a Nest, and, the Hen laid two perfect Eggs, and they took turns sitting.


I never bothered checking the Eggs, thinking, "No way could these be fertile..."

Well, Babys pipped!!!

Lol...


Two vital, happy, lovely 'Peepers', who grew up here, got socialized to the Wild Flock out doors, and, who were released to the Wild flock in sue course, where, I still see them all the time.


They can do it!


Even if some how propping themselves up against something, they will succeed!




Anyway, indeed, various Meds, as well as sitting Eggs, can mess up the usual conditions for their poops and even urates.


This makes it harder to evaluate the poops then, of course.


I am not familiar with the meds you mention, to have any experience with them.


Best wishes!



Phil
Lv


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

*surprise!*

Hi Everyone,

Well, the night before her vet visit her bandage came off and I could see that the bump was filling up with fluid again. Also, her poop became even more watery. The next night she went to the vet and he decided he’d remove it surgically. We planned to do that in about a week and I am using different medicine on her until then. She’s now getting baytril and a different anti-fungal. Can’t remember which one right now (I’m not at home).

I took her back home, put her back in her home. All was well. Then in the morning (yesterday morning), I went in to clean and feed and oh my God, BABIES!!!!

When I read your posts today Phil and Karyn, I almost died. I have to tell you this bird has been laying eggs regularly for three and a half years. (I know because I posted the first time she did and I checked back and that was March of 2007.) They never ever ever hatch! 

I couldn’t believe my eyes! Also one of them had to have hatched a day or two before because I found half of a broken shell. But at times they have broken their bad eggs so I didn’t think anything of it. 

So I’m totally beside myself now over this  I’m very excited and a little worried of course. I never planned to breed my birds and hope that they grow up healthy and that I can release them. (I’ll be asking you for advice on this Phil!) 

I called the vet yesterday and they advised me to continue with the medications and we are postponing the surgery for a few weeks.

I took some very bad pictures with my phone last night. They are blurry and it was getting dark. I will try to get some good ones soon to share. I was pretty excited to get home from work yesterday to check on their status, and they looked really good. Both just cuddly and warm under their mom. I’m still in shock, really.

Thanks everyone so much for all of your comments and suggestions!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well this is troublesome... have the parent birds been tested to see if they carry Salmonella – Paratyphoid? They can infect the babies.. one symptom is eggs not hatching..


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi,

No, the parents have never been tested for anything. The mother is on Baytril and Terbinafine for the next couple weeks. She'll be going back to the vet after about 3 weeks to have the thing on her leg removed.

Do you recommend doing anything to any of them at this point? I already feel bad having to handle the mother to medicate her twice a day. 

I'd like to share these pictures I took this morning. Not the clearest, but the only ones where they were still! They get squirmy when I remove mom or dad from them


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL, well I hope Phil and I did not jinx you .

I have asked a few times now for information on the meds she was/is on, especially the Amakacin, could you please describe how it was administered and how much. She is now on another heavy duty anti-fungal (Terbinafine) and Baytril as well, not drugs I would be administering lightly to a hen with neo-natal babies. You have not said as yet why the heavy duty meds (I understand the leg issue, but were cultures run on aspirate), what does the vet suspect and what tests where run to confirm a diagnosis?

Karyn


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi Karyn,

The Amakacin was .1cc twice a day. I had the vial of medicine and syringes and was shown how to administer an injection. The Diflucan was liquid oral suspension .55cc twice a day. The meds were for the issue with her leg. On her second visit some of the fluid was taken to run a culture and her white blood count was elevated and she was put on the new meds. The baytril is injectable .4cc twice a day and the terbinafine is oral .5cc twice a day. 

That is all the information I have so far.

She is not scheduled to return to the vet for a few more weeks.

She's eating and drinking and behaving normally. Babies look ok so far 

Are there any problems I should be looking for?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL. thanks for the information, it was helpful. I have had a few birds on Amakacin and usually the route to that med is to start with an oral med, like oral Baytril or TMS, see how the bird responds before starting on injectables. Did your vet say why he elected using injectable meds for your bird, as both meds, Amakacin and Baytril, can be quite irritating to muscle tissue. The injectable Baytril that the vet prescribed, before you knew about the babies, may actually be a bit of luck, as although the babies will get some Baytril from being absorbed into the mother's system, when she feeds them, it won't be to the same extent to if she were on oral Baytril. Baytril is generally not recommended in birds under three weeks of age as it interferes with the way cartilage and bone is formed in a negative way. Don't have enough information really on the Terbinafine (Lamisil) other than there are warnings to nursing human mothers that it could harm their babies. Terbinafine in my drug reference book indicates it can be given on QD dosing (once a day), so myself, until I spoke with the vet, would move her dosing to once a day and at 11pm-12am, where you could turn on the lights dose her, and put her back in the dark, to at least increase the chance of her not feeding this drug to her babies.

Karyn


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Karyn, if switching from twice a day to once a day, would I double the dosage?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL said:


> Karyn, if switching from twice a day to once a day, would I double the dosage?


What is her weight, (the stated dosing is 10-15mg/kg PO q12-24hr)? If I know her weight and the strength the Terbinafine is compounded at, I can help you with figuring out a dose, until you can speak with your vet, as you need to confirm whether this med should be continued, in light of her new circumstances.

How long ago was her last dose, a few factors have to be taken into account I would not simply double on her next dose.

Karyn


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Her last dose was at about 8PM tonight. I think her weight was around 482g. I could be wrong about that, but I think in that range. I don't know the strength that the terbinafine is compounded at. That information isn't on the label on the medicine. When I called the vet the morning after I found the babies, I did tell them about the babies and specifically asked if I should continue the medications and they said yes. So he knows about them and that they just hatched the day before. They are the reason we have postponed the removal of the thing on her leg.

I can't believe everything had to happen at the same time like this!

I appreciate so much you taking the time to read my concerns and to give me so much information. It's been extremely helpful  

The babies look so much bigger already. I can't believe how fast they seem to be growing! I'm sure that's how they all are but this being the first time for me, it's pretty amazing.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

JGFL, I had a look at the half life of Terbinafine and it's 36 hours in humans, half life is the time it takes for 1/2 the drug to be eliminated from the body and is no longer bio-available, which is a long time for a drug. Although human and avian metabolisms are considerably different, there would be some correlation in birds of this. I mention this to say it's a long acting drug, so as I see it, there really should be no problem in once a day dosing at all.

Without know the strength the Terbinafine suspension you have is compounded at, it would be best to speak to your vet in the morning and voice your concerns for the babies and ask them to help you move to once a day late dosing, because of the long half life there would be no problem moving the next scheduled dose, at 8:00am, along until you speak to him. There very well may be no lasting impact on the babies, but it just does not feel right to me to have the babies potentially ingesting large amounts, for their body weight, of a strong med like Terbinafine.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhhh...'cause Momma ( or Poppa? Or, who in your case, sits from late night to morning? She or he? ) will also be feeding small meals to the new Babys in the wee hours and pre dawn hours of the Night...as well as by day...


Anyway, just what is the thing going on which the Vet is slated to remove???


I have not been able to understand that part yet.



Phil
Lv

Phil
Lv


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## JGFL (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi All,

Karyn, I called the vet's office this morning and asked them about the medications and the effect on the babies. I reminded them of exactly what I am administering and how often and asked about switching to once a day. They assured me that the medicine would not harm the babies and to keep on the present schedule. They were very nice and answered all of my questions. I'm glad you suggested calling them, it helped ease my mind  I asked about anything I should be watching for that would signal to me that there is a problem and they mentioned their weight. I’m going to try to purchase a scale today. Would a good digital kitchen scale work for that?

Phil, the thing that the vet is going to remove is the dangling berry looking thing I posted in another thread. You let me know that it was not a boil and suggested that I could ligature it but she had already been to the vet and he decided to remove it surgically. It was drained once and then filled again - smaller though. Now we’re waiting for the babies to get bigger and start to eat on their own before he does it. From what I can tell, the mother sits more than the father. In the evenings when I return from work, she is sitting and in the mornings when I get up, she is sitting. If I’m home during the day, I see that he is sitting and she is out and walking around. I don’t know if this is their schedule all of the time, but it’s how I usually see them.

Do you all recommend feeding the parent birds anything different from or in addition to their normal seed mix and grit while they are feeding their babies? I’ve read on this site lots of things that people offer their birds for snacks or to supplement their diets. Wheat bread, peas, corn, greens, etc. Would those things be good for the parent birds? I’ve just recently offered them real pigeon grit from one of the online companies. Prior to that, they were only getting the tiny stuff they sell in the pet supply stores.

Keep your suggestions coming!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, a good digital kitchen scale will work just fine, you can pick up one from Walmart for under $20, I believe. Mothers always sit longer than the father, typically a father will sit late morning (around 10am) until early evening (around 5pm), the rest of the time the mother generally sits. For food I just offer a good pigeon mix and birds pellets like these in this link: 

http://www.petco.com/product/12570/...ferralID=52f2f2b5-aec1-11df-bb45-001b2166bec9

I started to supply a separate dish pellets of the advice of my vet for a number of years now, they are a complete diet on their own supplying a range of protein, minerals, amino acids and vitamins and I find they do like them, as them seem to eat about 2/3 seeds and 1/3 pellets daily, give or take. I find they like Cockatiel sized ones and I feel they balance out their diet nicely. 

You should see if you can get some better answers from your vet on what he suspects is the problem/infection. It has been my experience that before using some of the drugs that have been used on your little hen are started, that culture and sensitivity tests have been run and they are targeting a specific bacteria and for use of the kind of anti-fungals she has been/is on, tests have reveled antibodies to a fungal infection like Aspergillus, or ask are they just doing empiric treatment, that is trying out different drugs to see if they get a positive treatment response and have yet to identify a specific pathogen.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi JGFL,




Ohhhhhhhh, Okay.


Indeed, it would be interesting to know what if anything is 'in' the fluid they drained from the little 'Berry-thing'.


If it has nothing pathological in it, that would be the best, of course.


If it has something in it in the way of a foreign organism, it would be interesting to know what the organism is.


Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


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