# Help.....agressive behaviour!



## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

I have had Sweet since he/she was approx. 2 weeks old. He/she should be about 9 weeks old now in total. (see "Rescued baby pigeon from Crow" thread). Just recently, he/she has been displaying agressive behaviour when I open his/her cage at night. He/she starts walking round in circles, croaking and will peck my hand if I stick it into the cage. Q1. Why is Sweets doing this?

I feed Sweets 3 times a day. Once in the morning before work, once in the evening when I get home and once before I go to sleep. It is only at night when he/she resents me putting my hands into the cage. I would take out his/her feeding bowl and put seeds in it then put it back into the cage. His/her pecking is not the affectionate type. Q2.Could Sweet be a male pigeon and therefore territorial?

Please help! I use to love stroking Sweet in his cage at night before I go to sleep but now he/she seems to dislike this. Sweet also doesn't like it when I clean his/her cage. Once when I was cleaning his/her cage, Sweet jumped onto my back and pooed on me. He/she is normally very good and has hardly any incidents.

On the weekend, Sweet was taking a ride on my mum's shoulder and Sweet suddenly peck her on the face. 

Q4.Is there any definite "no-nos" with Pigeons when they become adult pigeons?

I love Sweet but I don't know what is it that I am doing wrong. Any advice is welcome.

Girl.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 

Welcome to the "Terrible Two's" of pigeons  This is fairly normal behaviour amoung young juvenile pigeons. This is the time they are starting to assert themselves and find out where they belong in the pecking order. In the wild or even in a loft, this is the age that they would be trying to secure a perch and a territory. Don't take offence to this behaviour or think that Sweets is mad at you, this is just a pigeon, being a pigeon. It will last a little while so be patient with her. With my two hand reared youngsters, I found it almost comical and endearing, you have nothing to worry about though.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi girl,

sounds like normal behavior. Nothing to worry about. Generally it goes away after they mature. 

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

It sounds to me as though Sweets might be a boy. We have a fantail who was raised close to humans, in the house. He was sweet as pie until he reached about 8 weeks, when he began to peck our faces and act aggressive. He's still very tame but he will land on my shoulder just so he can peck my face. Boys will be boys.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes...all completely normal healthy behaviour...

One thing too, young Pigeons at this age will tend to peck right at one's Pupil, oweing to how it looks like a tempting 'seed' or something, and they forget it is your eye in fact.

So, be careful about having your face near to theirs!

I have had this happen quite a few times, since I always tend to forget from the last time...!

Lol...

And it hurts...!

Lol again...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Phil,
Put some safety glasses on and cuddle up   
fp


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Thank you everyone. Glad to know that this is all "normal" behaviour. Phew! Got a couple more strange behaviours for you.

Behaviour 1. 
I also notice that Sweet isn't as attention seeking or affectionate as he/she use to be. When Sweet was young, Sweet uses to run straight out of the cage chirping non stop and constantly pumping his/her wings and jumping onto my lap. These days, he/she is more weary and doesn't really like being touched. Is this all normal adult pigeon behaviour too?

Behaviour 2.
I suspect that a)Sweet might be pecking at his/her feathers - the longest white ones at the wing end because they are partially torn off or b)the cage is not wide enough whenever Sweet flaps his/her wings and thats why the feathers are all torn. These are the same feathers Sweet has had since she/he was a baby. They just grew longer. Is this normal?

Behaviour 3.
Sweet's body vibrates alot. Is this normal?

This is all new to me.....

Mich.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sounds all like normal behaviors.
He is growing, not a baby anymore, he is more independent now and doesn't need mommy to constantly cuddle, just like human teenagers.

He might need a bigger cage to be able to stretch and flapp without damaging his wings. He is preeening his feathers, normal behavior, he wants to be well groomed.
After his molt he will grow in new feathers.

Trembling is normal, shows excitement.

Hope it helps

Reti


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Good to know that Sweet is developing normally, thanks Reti.

I took some recent pics of Sweet over the weekend, hasn't he/she grown?  

Could anyone advise whether Sweet's right wing as you can see is much lower and drags, is normal? Is it just a simple case of too small a cage or more complicated then that? He/she can fly short distances althought Sweet does prefer walking though!

Thanks.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 

Although I'm not entirely sure what is wrong with sweets wing, she has definitely got some problems with her feathers The wing that is drooping appears to have feathers damaged or broken off. Also, her neck and head feathers haven't come in very full yet compared to her body. The feathers in those areas look stunted. I'm thinking it's a vitamin deficiency or possibly a birth defect. Not really sure going by the pictures, hopefully another member will have something to add to this. She looks good overall though and healthy but there is something going on with those feathers. 

Is she eating a better and more balanced seed diet yet...other than just those few seeds you had mentioned before? Make sure she's getting vitamins 1-2 times per week, grit and if you have some calcium this would be good. You can either crush up a cuttle bone into finer particles or if you can, get some liquid calcium and put this in her water a few times per week.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What a sweet and pretty bird.
I agree with Brad on the feathers, some vitamins will help, hopefully.
In addition to what Brad suggested, I would recommend vit E. It is helpful during molting. You can purchase Wheat germ oil at the pet stores and give Sweet a couple of drops once in a while, especially when molting. Fish oil capsules once a month also help a great deal with the feathers, they are rich in vit A.
The wing shouldn't be drooping. Maybe he needs more exercise and more room to be able to stretch his wings.
Could he have had an injury to his wing?

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...and add powdered 'Super Greens' to the Seeds, moisten the Seeds just a little with some good, new Bottle, Olive Oil...(like a teaspoon of Oilive Oil in a cereal Bowl size Bowl of Seeds and stirr well..) and you can get any kind of powder to stick to them...

The independance you are seeing is what is correct, healthy, and normal for a Pigeon of this age, when they are internally poised now to assume or claim their own Life away from the interactions, presence and attentions of their parents or surrogate parents.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Quick Update on Sweet!



Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Is she eating a better and more balanced seed diet yet...other than just those few seeds you had mentioned before? Make sure she's getting vitamins 1-2 times per week, grit and if you have some calcium this would be good. You can either crush up a cuttle bone into finer particles or if you can, get some liquid calcium and put this in her water a few times per week.


She still has difficulty eating anything not round and small. She is showing interest but she can't seem to get it into her mouth. She picks it up but constantly drops it, after a while, she loses interest. Will Sweet eventually learn??

She shows no interest in grit although I have given her grit. I tried looking for "Super Greens" and "Wheat germ oil" or "Fish oil capsules" in the pet shop. The only things I could find were the "Eight in One" pet products and the "Kaytee Exact Rainbow Premium Daily Nutrition" nuggets. 

I recalled the vet told me about these pellets which have the correct nutrition and is a balance diet. So I bought the "Kaytee Exact Rainbow Premium Daily Nutrition" nuggets and handfeed this to Sweet once a night. Hopefully, this would give her what she's missing - vitamins etc. 

Has anyone heard of this Kaytee product? Is it sufficient?



Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Also, her neck and head feathers haven't come in very full yet compared to her body. The feathers in those areas look stunted. I'm thinking it's a vitamin deficiency or possibly a birth defect.


Sweet is starting to develop more feathers in her head. She is definitely a late bloomer. So cross your fingers for her!


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Reti said:


> The wing shouldn't be drooping. Maybe he needs more exercise and more room to be able to stretch his wings.
> Could he have had an injury to his wing?


I am not aware of any injury other then a bruise when I found Sweet when she was approx. 2 weeks old. She was attacked by a Crow. I took her to a vet and the vet didn't think anything was broken.

I now leave Sweet in the toilet during the day so she can have as much exercise time. I hope it helps. How does a bird learn to fly? Does it just come naturally? I know Sweet can fly forward but can't fly up and forward in one smooth motion. How can I help her learn?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a cutie!

You are doing great for this bird. She just had a bad start and just needs a little time. 

The excercising is great as she may just have a weak muscle in that wing that just needs to develop.

With youngsters that are a little slow(if she is drinking by herself) I will spoon feed seeds down the back of the throat behind the tongue (I use a baby spoon) This is a little time consuming and messy but it would be in her best interest if you can get a good pigeon mix down her. She will eventually grow stronger and will begin to pick up the seeds. Her tongue also has to develop the feel for the seed, and the muscle in the tongue needs to develop. She is at the age where seeds are now best for her.

Make sure you have her on a good nutrition schedule, add a little multi to her water (go by direction), give her some probiotics, and continue to put the grit infront of her.
I would also crush 1/4 teasp. clove of organic garlic in her water bowl on days when there is no vitamin in the water. You can cut it in tiny pieces or just crush it. Garlic gives pigeons beautiful feathering and purifies the blood, not to mention builds their immune system. The only time I wouldn't recommend the garlic is if she had an upset stomach. 

She will learn to fly, she just needs a little strengthening and practice! You are right on!

Treesa


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 


Sorry to hear you're still having difficulties with Sweets.  I think now, at this later stage in her life it could very well be time for tough love. If she's not eating a proper and balanced diet of various seeds, still dependant on you for providing her with feedings and delicate care, you NEED to toughen up a bit with her. My own hand reared youngsters didn't fully wean onto a proper, balanced diet until they were over 3 months old. They were spoiled rotten and handed everything on a silver platter. (we were trying to be gentle) It did them no good really because it impedes their development. Place a bowl of well rationed seeds in her cage/pen or environment and do not feed her again until she's eaten most of it. There is really no other way (I feel) at this time.


As for her wing, I think it's a feather issue. You may have to wait until she molts into her adult plumage which should be very soon. At about 3 months old or so, they shed their "Baby" feathers and grow adult ones. She will learn to fly on her own if able.


Best of luck with her!


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Latest Update on Sweets, for those of you who have offered advice and support over the last few months.

Feeding
I separated the sorghum seeds from the normal pigeon mix and finally did the tough love. I am glad to say that Sweets now eats other seeds including the Kaytee nuggets. She still has trouble picking up the dried peas and corn but at least, she has a more diverse diet.

Feathers
She has finally grown more feathers around her neck and even got those morphing green and blueish colours. She still moults alittle.

Flying
Sweet's wing doesn't drop anymore and she is a more confident flyer. She is however quite spoilt and prefers to ride on our shoulders then exploring the garden on her own.

Behaviour  
Still quite the terriortorial little one and continue to peck my toes and fingers if I go near her favourite perching spot.
On a different note, we have found that Sweets is quite imprinted on humans. We did a a mini experiment - my mum who has had minimal contact with Sweets was still able to get Sweets to fly to her and perch on her shoulder. Obviously this isn't very good because this could mean that there is a high chance that Sweets will fly to anyone. And we all know that not every human understands/or likes pigeons. Mum and Dad have agreed to letting me have an aviary in their garden. I might not be able to spend time with Sweets other then on the weekends but at least Sweet will be happier in an aviary then in an apartment toilet in the long term.

Could someone advise me what is the minimal size of an aviary I should get? Any other features that I should look for in an aviary? Any pictures provided will be appreciated so I know what I am looking for when I go shopping. 

Enjoy the latest pics!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for the update, and the new pictures. What a cutie!

Glad to hear Sweets will be getting a new home. For one pigeon, you should be able to get a rabbit hutch size coop, off the ground to keep her in. Then again, most of us here, started small and ended up adding to our coops as we took in more birds for rehab or other reasons. The roosting area should be enclosed & have a perch or cubby, be free of air drafts, and rain and predator proof. 

If you eventually would like to add another pigeon to keep Sweets company you might want to make it a little bigger. If he will not be flying outside consider not only building a small coop for roosting at night but a small aviary extension of where he can fly. 

We started with a small off the ground 4 x 4 coop, then added an aviary, but that was when we had only 4 pigeons, now we have 50 and a walk in coop and aviary! That is why I say, start off with the size coop you will eventually need.


Treesa


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 

WOW, WOW, and WOW!!! Sweets has made a remarkable improvement in both her looks and with her eating a better diet. I read somewhere recently in the forum you had mentioned about you using tough love on her and that it was working. I'm very happy for you and Sweets and that things have worked themselves out. I do notice that she's still got that one damaged flight feather on her right wing. This will moult out though and eventually be replaced by a normal feather - nothing to worry about

Treesa gave you some good advice on an aviary and possibly getting a mate for Sweets down the road. Since she was hand raised, she will likely be lonely outside on her own. Perhaps you can try finding a pigeon breeder in your area and purchase a bird a little later on. 

I'm very happy to hear this update today Girl. Your patience and determination have paid off here with Sweets and she's a gorgeous pigeon too

Thanks again,


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

She's a very good looking pigeon. That coloring pattern is called "grizzle," very attractive. She's obviously in much better condition and is responding to your good care. I'm so glad you are able to keep her, as she is imprinted on people. 

You've gotten good advice on cages. A rabbit hutch would be sufficient, especially if she gets to come out for excercise and socialization. How big a cage you get depends on whether or not you want to get another pigeon (or more) in the future, too. The rule for pigeons is the same as for all domestic birds: buy or build the biggest cage you can afford. More room is always better than less, and it's nice to be able to expand if you need to. Those of us who started with just a pigeon or two know all too well that you always end up wanting more space.  I can't tell you how many times I've asked my husband for "just one more" set of nest boxes, etc.


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

Sweets thanks everyone for their compliments. Thanks Birdmom4ever for telling me what the colour pattern is, I was wondering what it was coz it is not very common in the city pigeons in Melbourne.




Trees Gray said:


> If you eventually would like to add another pigeon to keep Sweets company you might want to make it a little bigger. If he will not be flying outside consider not only building a small coop for roosting at night but a small aviary extension of where he can fly. Treesa


If I intend to keep Sweets in the aviary until I band her and am confident that she will return to the aviary by herself everyday, how long/wide an aviary extension should it be if she is kept inside all day? For example, 1m length by 1m wide or 1.5m length by 0.8m wide?

Btw, whats the difference between an aviary and coop? I have only seen aviaries and I assume that the aviary is where the bird will eat/sleep/spend all day?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Generally, coop means an enclosed building and aviary means an open, wire-covered pen. Ideally you have an enclosed coop where the pigeons can stay warm, dry and draft-free (though it does need ventilation) and an attached aviary or "fly-pen" where they can stretch their wings and enjoy sunshine and rain showers. Our loft is constructed so that we can close the main window in bad weather, keeping rain out. They also have an attached sun room, which has a back and roof, but is wire on two sides. However, if I had it to do over, I'd construct it with a large fly-pen in front instead of the wire- covered landing board we have now. We designed our loft with the intention of free-flying our pigeons, but quickly discovered that Cooper's hawks are here 9-10 months out of the year and free-flying rollers in our area is very hazardous. So now all of our pigeons are kept in and I wish they had more outdoor space. 

As to space, a good rule of thumb is to allow a minimum of two square feet (sorry--I don't do metric) of floor space per bird. More space is always better.


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

*Aviary Update*

Birdmom4ever,

Thanks for the advice. I finally bought an aviary on Sunday. Should be getting it picked up sometime this week, hopefully my partner and I can assemble it this coming weekend. Btw, do you have some pics of your aviary +coop, I would like to see the difference.

This was all I could afford. I couldn't find/get a coop+aviary, I might have to add some sort of curtain/box as a make-shift coop? Any suggestions welcome. The aviary is approx. 4.5 feet wide,5.5 feet high, 2 feet deep. It is covered at the top, covered behind, and covered at one side. The front and other side is just wire. 

I tired to get the biggest aviary I could find because Sweets will be left in the aviary 24/7. My parents won't be able to supervise and play with her. Especially with what happened recently, it is best for now. I will visit her and let her fly around the garden on the weekends. I got her a pigeon ring cut so it fits, if she gets lost, someone who finds her will hopefully ring the national pigeons association here.

Another question I wanted to ask is what other kinds of birds can keep Sweets company? My parents do not want my pigeon to breed but I can't just leave it by itself in this aviary. Please advise what other kinds of birds would be most suitable to live with pigeons? i.e. doves? 

Thanks!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Your aviary sounds just fine for Sweets. The best companion for her would be another pigeon. If you are sure she's a hen, get another hen. They will probably pair off and act like mates, but of course their eggs won't be fertile. Check the adoption section of the forum; there are frequently birds that need homes.


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

That would be good if Sweets is a Hen, but my partner and I think that she is going to turn out into a he because he is very territorial and vocal. Sweets calls out very frequently non-stop when we are at home. We pretty much have to bring her into the living room with us. Thats the only time she keeps quiet. She also coos alot if she doesn't "like" something i.e. white tissue paper, the tv remote control, if we hold her etc. Your're probably wondering tv remote controller?? Yes, she does have her quirks!!

Can 2 male pigeons stay in the same aviary with no other pigeons around?

I know its not an ideal situation as I would get her a mate if I was looking after her myself. I just don't want to have to buy/adopt a pigeon and find out that they breed and get told by my parents that I'll have to let the other pigeon go. Hope everyone understands. I am planning to take Sweets back once I get a house with a backyard but that won't be anytime soon. 

Thanks.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi there,

The aviary sounds fine, but Sweets will still need room to fly day to day, as he is used to. If he can have free flight time, the size is fine.

You can house another male pigeon with him as long as there is enough room for both of them as they will both be territorial. Make sure there are plenty of places for both to perch on without being to close to each other.

Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Girl,

the aviary sounds big enough for a pij to be happy and if he has some free time out he will certainly appreciate that.
If your pij is male and you get him another male, there is a chance they might fight, even if they get adjusted to each other, they might never be friends.
I noticed that two girls get along better and mate more often than two males.
You still can get for pij someone of the opposite sex and switch the eggs with dummy eggs.

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 

Glad to hear that you've got an aviary in the works now. The size is very nice for one pigeon or even a few. Once you've got it constructed, please take a picture and post it so we can see and also recommend any suggestions for improvement so it will be more comfortable for Sweets.

I agree with what the other members have advised on free flying time and birds to keep with her. The ideal situation would be that Sweets is a female because then you could get another female for company for her. Two females will likely strike up a bond faster and easier than two males would.

Don't be fooled by Sweets' aggressive behaviour yet and think that she is a he. They are all like this around Sweets age and nothing is carved in stone yet. Pigeons are communal birds that live in flocks and pairs. If you were to get a dove for Sweets, and if Sweets IS male, he could hurt, even kill the smaller dove in trying to mate with it. If Sweets is a female, then you could get either a male or female dove for her. I'd suggest a hardier and larger type of dove like a collared/ring neck, not a small and high strung breed. The drive for pigeons to form a pair, mate and raise young is VERY strong. 

You *could* house Sweets in with another species altogether such as finches, or parakeets (small ones), or quails. What will likely happen however is that Sweets will still feel that she/he needs to find a mate and over time will attempt to make one of these other birds her mate. These smaller birds wouldn't be in harms way because they'd be able to out fly and manoeuvre her in the aviary. I don't know how satisfying this arrangement would be for Sweet though.

You can try the "mirror" technique with Sweets, although she might be a little too young yet to test. Hold a mirror in front of her and watch her reaction. If she does nothing, or is mildly curious but generally ignores her reflection, she could very well be a SHE. If Sweets starts to coo, strut and display in front of the mirror, this could mean she's a he. Again, she may be a little too young yet for this because pigeons don't general become sexually mature until 5 or 6 months of age.

Are you on borrowed time here with Sweets...meaning are your parents anxious to get her outside into the aviary? She can be alone in the aviary for awhile as well but you or someone needs to be able to spend a good amount of time with her. So, if you can wait a little longer before you make any final decisions this would be good. 

As for free flying I wouldn't recommend letting her out until she's had a good amount of time to get acclimated to her aviary and surroundings. If you let her out too soon, she might lose her bearings and fly off. A good month or even longer without letting her out into the backyard would help her "know" her surroundings so that if she did fly off into a tree or somewhere you couldn't reach her, she would likely be able to identify her home and come back to it.

Hope this has helped you in some way, Girl


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Sweets will, of course, be happiest with a real pigeon mate. You can use fake eggs, wood or plastic (available from any pigeon supply) and take their eggs as soon as they are laid. Be warned, though, that the temptation to let them keep their eggs is very great. 

If it turns out Sweets is a male, two cock-birds will quarrel and may even hurt each other. This doesn't always happen, though. We adopted four ring-necked doves from an animal shelter in May. Turned out to be a pair plus two cocks. I put the pair in one small aviary and had to put the two boys in the other, as I have no other place to keep them. At first the two cocks squabbled and picked on each other, but they eventually calmed down, made the best of the situation and and formed a "pair." They seem reasonably content. 

Don't get a dove as a companion for your pigeon, though. Aside from the risk of the pigeon harming the dove, I've heard that doves and pigeons can occasionally produce a hybrid. Though separate species, they are closely enough related to sometimes produce viable young.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Girl,


Wow, lots of news then!

Yes, no 'Dove' buddies for Sweets...for some reason, even otherwise kindly and mild Pigeons will mercyless pester or attack a Dove when caged with one.

Too, if Sweets is a male, he may eventually wish to find a mate, and, he might find one flying around, or will wish TO be flying around to do so, who he would then interest to come and live in the Aviary,which, prospectively, she would come to visit and examine for her interests.

He might depart the aviary for that matter, to seek his fortune in the wider World.

If Sweets is a female, she might of course also, and equally deeply, wish to find a mate, and, might meet a prospective suitor when flying, or will wish TO be flying to do so, and he would tend to invite her to enjoy his territorial offerings or potential Nest making places that he has elected as prospects.

Or, she may with to seek her fortune as may be, immediate suitors or no, in the wide world if allowed to fly.

One never knows!


Now, if Sweets has a mate, elected somehow according to their reciprocal interest and free concent, they will wish to make a Nest and make Babys. And, if they are satisfied with the amenities and feed and sense of safety and comfort and so on, they'd tend to stay perpetually and call it "Home", that is, to go out flying as often as they like, and to return faithfully to their Home in the Aviary.


So far as I know, anyway...that's the run down.

So, maybe, consider anyway, to let Sweets somehow elect a mate while an Aviary Bird ( borrow some various candidates of various genders from someone maybe! Returning those of course who were not elected by Sweets, if any of a given batch would be anyway...Not this week, but one of these days...) and...if all goes well with that, then, as a mated pair, they will soon make a Nest...Sweets needs maybe another six-month or something, maybe more, to be old enough for these matters to become of interest anyway.

And, if a mated pair, the Aviary would be their Home for keeps most likely! - according to their feeling happy there, to fly from and return as they normally would do as often as they like, so long as they felt it to be a good place to make and raise Babys, if permitted to do so, now and then...


If Sweets is a Hen, and elects a mate and so on, later, sometime...they would of course be kept in untill they have in fact made their Nest and have some Eggs to warm...then, they may be let out to fly and they will retuen, taking turns and so on.

If Sweets is a Cock, then the Aviary of course is something he has to offer to a Hen, so, in theory I think, there is less liklihood of him flying off if a Hen accepts the situation to be his mate...and one might not need to wait untill Eggs, but even still, it might be prudent to do so.



That, anyway, as far as I know, is the best one could do...to try...

Congratulations on your new Aviary!

Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

*Aviary Update 11/07/05*

On a cold,wet and rainy Saturday, my partner and I put the aviary together. When it stopped raining temporarily, we put Sweets in there to get familiarised. My partner and I then went to the nearest pet shop and got another pigeon - Boba the fantail. He/she (as the shop keeper was not too sure himself) is a creamy brown colour and quite pretty. We put the two of them together. Sweets did some cooing, not much and pecked Boba once or twice but by the end of the night, they slept together on the same branch!

The story doesn't end there though, a colleague of mine also gave me a pigeon the following day. This one was alot younger and stills chirps although he/she (she wasn't 100% sure) is almost the same size as Sweets but doesn't have the adult feathers. This little one whom I have not yet named is a cross between a tumbler/roller. I put her on a log which is slightly higher off the ground. Sweets also tried to get onto the log but the little one pecked her! Hehehe.....so with her tail between the wings, Sweets settled for a branch above. By nightfall, all three of them were sleeping side by side on the same branch huddled closely. It was so cute, I wished I had a camera with me!

I still don't know whether Sweets is a male or female, neither am I 100% sure about the others! I am however glad that all three of them are comfortable enought to sleep side by side on the same branch. I will have to take some photos of the aviary and my pjs for you guys.

Just thought I would provide you guys with an update. There are improvements which I need to make with your help, guys. Will try and take some pics this weekend.

Btw, what is the lowest temperature a pigeon can take or be left outside in the aviary? Its currently winter in Melbourne and can be as cold as 5 degrees at night.

Girl.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Ah, right, this is your winter. I don't remember if you are metric or not. If that's 5 degrees Celcius, it shouldn't be a problem as long as they are adapted to it and are dry and out of drafts. If it's Farenheight, I would probably either bring them inside or provide some kind of supplemental heat. However, prevailing wisdom is that pigeons can handle pretty cold weather.

Wow, your flock has really grown - congratulations! Please remember to quarantine any new bird for 3 or 4 weeks before letting them intermingle to protect your existing pets.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

They are on the metric system so she would mean 5 C or 41 F. Easily temperatures that pigeons can handle


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Girl,


You are of the Celsius way-of-faith I think, so "5 Degrees" to those of us of the Farenheit subscription, would be around 38 degrees or so I recon.

Long as things are draft and wind free, and dry...I would not expect them to mind.


I used to have 'Winter Sides' of opaque panels I installed on my Aviary for cold or windy weather, and a heated Water Bowl and a warm area for them also in one area of the Aviary. ( No Aviary now...just my little appartment in my old building and the wild Flock outside on their own...)


Gets into the mid 20s here sometimes ( Las Vegas ) where I have had the Water in my kitchen sink freeze, and long as the Birds are healthy and grown up, they do just fine with moderate Cold, certainly...

Youngsters, or the Old or ill or convelescent of course, of any Species, prefer warmth...


Phil
el ve


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks, Brad! Great teamwork!


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## Girl (Mar 3, 2005)

*May need a pigeon psychologist!*

Quick Update

I have finally got names for Sweets' two other play mates - Boba the fantail and Mocha the Roller/Tumbler. My partner named the fantail and I named the roller/tumbler Mocha because he's brown just like the yummy coffee chocolate drink!
Sorry but still no pics, the weather has been terrible, still cold, wet and rainy in Melbourne. Winter will be winter!
Boba and Mocha are very much like Mother & Daughter or Father & Son as Mocha still chirps like a baby and likes to follow Boba around. Sweets on the other hand, although amused by the new company and I believe happy to have company all day, is still very much the individual and does whatever she pleases. Unfornately, Sweets isn't very maternal and has pecked Mocha on a few occassions when Mocha gets too close.
Sweets is a very vocal bird and does the angry dance and coos quite a lot. Another sound Sweets makes is a low "Woo" which increases in volume gradually till its actually quite loud like those ghost movies with the wind howling. We thought that Sweets did it because she was lonely or annoyed that we wouldn't let her stay with us 24/7. But my parents have told me that she even does the howling when she's with her new play mates. I have never heard a city pigeon make any noise and Boba and Mocha don't make any pigeon noises, not even the angry dance and cooing.
Another bit of a reverse progress of Sweets is that she has gone back to her indulging of red sorghum seeds. 

Q1. Is this a male thing? Is it normal? Are pigeons normally so loud and vocal?  

Q2.Has anyone known a pigeon so addicted to a particular seed like a human is to chocolate or cigarettes??  

Any feedback is welcome!

Girl.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Girl,


My guess is that Sweets is a male...and doing the "This is mine!" twirley-dance and it's accompanying 'Moos' or "Coos'...( I call them 'Moos')...

...dunno on the Sorgum Seeds, likely mox-nix if you were to moisten them lightly with Olive Oil and add some Vitamines and Minerals and other Nutrients every third time or something. 
It might change too one of these days, who knows, maybe it is like a kind of 'Security-Blanket' association for him...so now he wants them, since other Birds are near and he might feel a little insecure for now...give 'im time...he'll likely peck at other kinds of Seeds one of these days!

That or see if you can find a local chapter of the 'S.A' - "Sorgum Annonomous" meetings for Pigeons. Usually in older strip malls anymore. 

Sweets can perch on the back of a folding chair, with a nice full Crop, looking over all the ashtrays and styrofoam Coffee and the odd copy of The Big Book, laying here and there in front of every one, and he can start in after the minutes are read from the last meeting, and say, "Uhhhh...well...Hi...my name's Sweets...and...well, er, uhhhh...I could stop eating these any time, really..."

They'll understand...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Girl, 

Glad to hear your update of the pigeons. Boba and Mocha sound like good companions for Sweets. It's hard to say for sure if Sweets' behaviour is indicating a male but her aggressiveness could also be her reaction to having other birds around that are younger to bully. 

Out of my two hand reared youngsters, Lucy is the most vocal by a long shot. She is constantly cooing, moaning and groaning Since Mocha is still a young bird, Sweets will likely not be afraid to assert herself around Mocha, showing her who's boss. You'll likely have a better idea of Sweets' sex when the other 2 pigeons are older and they begin to reach sexual maturity. 

I think Sweets like the sorghum so much because it was the first seed she started eating and it's familiar to her. Pigeons tend to stick to and eat what they learned from young birds.

Well, can't wait to see your pictures of the pigeons and the new loft


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