# Charcoal as supplement?



## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Just now, I was about to sprinkle charcoal over my doves' grit again but was stopped by the thought that maybe it's something that should not be used all of the time?

I was so glad to read that thread on black droppings, when I got to the part about eating charcoal, I knew (eureka!) that must be why my ringneck doves' dropping were black. They had been going for the black seeds ( black oil sunflower, niger, and buckwheat ) but even after withholding them, the droppings were still black. So I stopped putting charcoal in their grit dish, and voila, nice and brown again.

But another (I think) thread used charcoal to get rid of ingested poison and that got me wondering, can the charcoal also get rid of the good stuff? I have no idea how the detox action of charcoal works. Does it chelate? Bad/good alike ...or...? 

All I know is that the bag (labeled bird charcoal) says, "neutralizes acid in the stomach" and "helps maintain a healthy digestive system".

So I'm wondering how the charcoal works and/or what kind of regimen would be ideal for it's use.

Thanks in advance for any info or advice,

Kit


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Kit, I also sprinkle charcoal over my pigeons' grit so it's available if they want some, but have not had a problem with them overeating it. If your birds are eating so much that their droppings are black, you might want to check to see if there is another problem. Do you give them a vitamin/mineral supplement? I offer several different pick pots so they can choose what they need. It might be worth having a fecal check done, if you haven't had them to a veterinarian recently. Some problems are sub-clinical so any change from normal is worth checking out. Good luck!


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

*Still puzzled about the charcoal*

Thanks TerriB
So if eating charcoal turns their poops black, that might not be a good sign? Their droppings did return to normal when I stopped offering it, so would the concern be some underlying not-so-good cause for them overindulging? 
Their fecal check is just due, thanks, that comes as a timely reminder.  

Would you or anyone know if checking for over-supplementation is done in the same part of the fecal analysis as the heavy metal tox part?

I'm still puzzled about the charcoal, if it discriminates in what it absorbs - or if it just sucks up the good and bad and ugly altogether... I'd like to be able to comfortably think of it as being an overall good thing, but have this nagging, could it be a "double edged sword" question that bugs me. 

This ties in with my concern that I may be over supplementing - I've just been adding only the tiniest bit possible of Prime in their water for fear of this. But on the other hand, if the charcoal is absorbing supplements...  

They get fed a variety of naturally preserved fortified seed mixes, the fortification in those are in pellet form though, so I don't actually know how much of the pellety fake seeds they are eating and how much get tossed out for the wild birds. The Pennington's seed has the hulls impregnated with the essentials (Calcium Carbonate, VitA, D3, and Potassium Iodide) so I know they're getting that. The Zupreme natural pellets have supplements in them too, they eat them but not much.
I also treat with organic greens and vegies a few times a week, boiled egg whites 2x a wk and our little hen gets some sheeps cheese because she's young and growing. The charcoal I was sprinkling over Kaytee Hi Cal grit, offered freely. 
Sound like too much?

I'm thinking maybe it would be safer if I nixed using even that tiny bit of the Hagen's Prime every day and alternate it instead, offering charcoal then leave a few days of nothing between, or maybe just alternate the charcoal in that way with human grade probiotics instead of using Prime as the source of probiotics and only add the Prime to their water once a week, days away from offering charcoal?

Questions, questions, questions...
Any input or feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

Kit


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Just A Pinch*

HI JOYFULSONGTREE, Charcoal is to be used in small quantitys.There is nothing wrong with your birds poop just because its black,after OVER FEEDING charcoal.I have over 100 birds and I feed them charcoal in their grit daily. I have 7 sections with about 25 birds in each section. I have a grit bowl for each section. Each grit bowl has 3tbs of oyster shell,1tbs red stone,1tea spoon of charcoal I also have 1/4 of a block of MAGNESIUM CARBONATE. The oyster shell, red stone and charcoal are changed every day, what is not use is thrown out the next day,only the magnesium is saved. ..................... While it is importent to check your birds poop, I feel that to many get up tight at a slight change in color,when they should be looking to see if its,SMALL,FIRM,AND CAPPED WITH WHITE URATE. Now when I stright red stone their poops will take a on a red color.............. Use charcoal in small quantys, and if you only have a few pet birds you don't need to feed charcoal every day. Once or twice a week is enough. Just a pinch. GEORGE


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi George, I like your suggestion of giving them charcoal only once or twice a week, especially if it does turn out that it can absorb the good stuff along with the bad, then at least it wouldn't be doing it on a consistant basis.

Wow, you got lotsa birdies! I just have the two turtledoves and I'm sure I do fuss over them way too much, though not normally much concerned with poop color since it changes with whatever they eat. I know what you mean about shape and urate, but seeing those black poopies did throw me for a loop  for a bit before putting two and two together about it being from the charcoal...  

I see you use magnesium carbonate, that's not in the grit mix that I've been giving them, but it is in the coral supplement that hubby brought home for us to take ourselves, so I think I'll do a little sprinkling of that in with their grit from time to time. If I recall correctly there's no danger of OD'ing on cal/mag? I imagine getting the variety would be good, too.

Thanks for answering  
Kit


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Magnesium*

HI KIT, I feel that I should tell you more about magnesium. It plays a important role in the metabolism of glucose,vitamin C and with the minerals including calcium, phosphorus and potassium. So it is important in the digestion. Also you need to know that some medicimes can cause a deficiency.Also magnesium activates hunders of enzyme systems,most of which contain vitamin B6,which is need by the body and can only be absorb when enough magnesium is present.Many of the racing people that race long distance birds believe that it is good for the nerves,muscles and for converting blood sugar into energy which the bird needs in long distance flights. GEORGE


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Gee thanks for the good info, George  
That encourages me to definitely add the coral cal/mag to their grit. There is magnesium in the Hagen Prime, http://www.hagen.com/usa/birds/product.cfm?CAT=8&SUBCAT=820&PROD_ID=08821050020101

which they've been getting just a smidge of daily in their water up until yesterday, but for now I've decided to add the Prime to their water only 2 or 3 x's weekly instead, so as not to over-supplement with the vitamins that can cause toxicity, and away from when I offer charcoal, so they'll have the best chance of actually utilizing all the good stuff that's in it. 
After I read your post I looked over the ingredients in the fortified seed and pellets that they get and was surprised that magnesium is not listed on a single one! So I really appreciate your note and will offer the mag to them freely from now on  

Kit


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Ooo, I just found some naturally chelated magnesium in our closet, Magnesium Elemental as magnesium aspartate, with pea powder, buckwheat & millet flour, lentil powder and sodium copper chlorophyll. And since I just noticed that the coral cal/mag has Vit D3 in it as well (calcium and D3 is in so much of what they get already) it's probably better to go with just the Mag. So unless there's a reason not to, I think I should go with that instead for now. Would magnesium carbonate be the best though?
You've been so helpful, thanks again :~)
Kit


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI KIT, I just want to tell you some thing that I was told many years ago by a old pigeon breeder. "Don't chance to many things all at once,make one change see how things go before making the next change this way if something goes wrong you know that caused it." GEORGE


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Wise words from the old pigeon breeder  
We'll be sure to take it slow  
Thanks, George  
Kit


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

*FYI ~ Just to clarify...*

In case anyone reads this and is wondering (as I was) about how charcoal works, I recently came across a book on doves and I read that charcoal does absorb beneficial nutrients as well as other things as it moves through the digestive tract. 
So while a great thing to have on hand for ingested poison, it does not appear that charcoal would be the best blood purifyer/acid neutralizer to use as a regular supplement.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

My pigeons don't seem to eat any of the charcoal I put in their grit, it seems like a waste to put it in.

But then again, I noticed in this humid weather, it helps absorb any moisture that accumulates in the grit.  

Calcium/magnesium also has to be present in ratio of 6/1 for better utilization also.


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