# So... What do pigeon people think of falconry?



## Archangel (Aug 14, 2010)

Just out of curiosity, what do pigeon people feel about the sport of falconry?
I found some old posts about falconry and got the feeling that some people may not be so fond of falconers. They can be of great use to you, more about that later...

I am a falconer, it is my prime passion in life. All I want to do more than anything is see a peregrine falcon drop from the heavens at over 200 mph and take it's meal, just like it would every day to survive in the wild. When its all over, bird and man enjoy each others company and the falcon goes home to safely digest her well earned meal. I love and respect all birds for what they are and I recently started my all white pigeon loft so I could have more birds and mainly use them in my wife's photography business for releases. They are not to be food for my raptors. Although I have unitentionally fed a few wild raptors already, darn coopers got several of my new birds.

Before this turns into a debate about humane treatment of animals, think first of how many wild hawks there are that must eat a living animal nearly every day to survive. Most pigeon people have probaby seen more hawks than they would like to remember. That is their way of life, what they must do to survive and reproduce, they cannot become vegetarians. Death supports life on this planet, it is ignorant to not accept this simple fact. We as humans are supporded by the death of some animal or animals every day. Some folks like to twist the truth about that and warp peoples minds into believing that some animals are special and need to be treated better and in a way that is grossly against what mother nature had intended for them. In the animal world you are prey or predator, sometimes both, that is it. Birds do not understand or feel they deserve special rights, all they know is instinctual. Prey species know they are food for something, when a hawk shows up your birds know its time to take some evasive measure to prevent becomming food. If they did not have any fear of raptors, it would be hard for them to survive as a species. To keep the ballance, they were blessed with fear or raptors, and raptors were blessed with abilities to be good hunters. 

I do not support the torture or mistreatment of any animal. If anyone is doing anything to grossly hurt the population of any species I fully believe that it is our resposiblity to make a change. But before one goes to state that a falconers conduct in using pigeons for training a raptor is wrong or inhumane, think of some other things we utilize without a single thought about killing something so something else may grow. It is easy to look at a pigeon or other warm blooded animal as higher than other life forms, they are simular to us, they have organs like us they bleed like us, it is easy to have more feelings for them than they have for us. But if you look around you right now I am sure you can find many many things that died so you could enjoy the space you currently occupy. Easy one, the wood in your walls or computer desk, a tree died for its wood. Take it further, the tree could have been home to many species, ect, on and on. Now I'm preaching. 

It just frustrates me when people get wierd ideas they didn't fully think through and then start spreading wierd ideas to more people to spread more wierd ideas. Pigeons are special to us, no doubt, they are nice birds. I like their company more than my hawks at times. A hawk sometimes looks at you like it would hold you down and eat you if it could, they are all hunting business most of the time, that is what I expect. Pigeons just go about their business and mine are getting pretty trusting of me. I pet them and talk to them like they know what I'm saying. Let them eat out of my hand. I still know their place in nature though and know that they are a prey species. If I was starving, I'd trap and eat pigeons if I needed to survive, heck I'd eat a hawk if I had to. 

As for falconer being of some use to pigeon keepers. If you know a falconer he or she could legally trap a raptor and relocate it if it was killing your pigeons. Most states have a legal trapping season for falconers. Some think that they will just come back, they might, but it has worked for several people. 

One of the reasons I wrote all this was that a pigeon racer in my area that I used to talk to quite a bit, quit talking to me because he found out I was a falconer, he went nuts on me. Previously he had told me about all the raptors he had shot to keep them away from his racers, and I do know that this happens ALOT. I just don't get it, I ignored that he was shooting birds of prey, told him he better not get caught. It is pretty unlikely with the number of falconers in the US that a falconry raptor would mess with someones homing pigeons. It could happen but is so very unlikely. A pigeon that is moving in the air already and on a dead run back to home is an unlikely target in the first place. Not to mention they are very good at dodging predators in the air at full speed. Falcons, look for the weak or slow, or the bird that didn't notice them. Like natures filter. 

Another point I'd like to add to this essay, is the fact that just having a homing pigeon loft could be twisted as being inhumane to pigeons. We take our pigeons and get them used to people and their new home, let them hang out arround their loft where they think they are safe. The local coopers hawk sees that these birds have a routine. Let out same time every day, they sit in the same places every day. Birds of prey are oportunistic, an easy meal with the least amout of risk of becoming food for something else is something they will take advantage of, you have probably seen it or experienced the aftermath, or you eventually will. It could be construed that it was your fault for making those birds that tame and routinely return to the same point every day. I know a guy who had a coopers that would go right into his loft where his birds obviously could not excape.

So in closing this was not to stir everyone up, just wanted to post my side of the story, and keep things real.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

I am just going to post to the title of this thread  I think its a great sport that takes a lot of dedication and time


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

the way I see it is the more birds of prey in captivity the less that are out on the prowl lol  I think no matter how many are trapped and removed there will always be more to just take their place, theres never a shortage here at my loft .. just glad they arent as bad thru the summer months


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

You can do falconry with pigeons without all the killing its...peaceful


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Look up "petrollers" on youtube


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Despite how much I hate it when my birds get killed by hawks, I still can't help but like them. I'm not very fond (like, really really not fond) of Cooper's and Shap-shins, BUT I think falcons are totally cool. Peregrines are amazing, and little kestrels are SO adorable! I've always thought falconry was a neat hobby, and wanted to be able to do it myself. The way they move in the air and their speed is just amazing.
Whenever I think of peregrines and/or falconry, I think of a couple of my favorite books - My Side of the Mountain (along with the other two), and In The Shadow of the Falcon.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2010)

What is it


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Interesting and pretty well stated post, Archangel. We'll see how well it flies here.

Terry


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## Archangel (Aug 14, 2010)

Falconry is the sport of using birds of prey for hunting game. It is legal with the proper permits and highly regulated. Game like pheasant, quail, ducks, rabbits, squirrels or other small game are what we hunt. Falcons prefere avian prey and hawks will take avian prey and ground prey. What the falconry bird catches it gets to eat, and they eat everything. Sometimes I will take a bit for myself but usually all the game they catch they get to eat. They have to have live animals to survive.

As for pigeons and their use in falconry, they are sometimes used to train birds of prey. They are rarely used as the primary prey item in a hunting scenario, more as a training aid to strengthen the falcon and build its focus for hunting. It helps the falcon mature much as it would in the wild, it learns what it has to do to take difficult prey and once it is on the right track the use of pigeons is over and regular wild prey are hunted.

A point to ponder when thinking of the use of pigeons in falconry, have you ever seen a wild pigeon that just dropped dead from old age? One that is completly wild and free. Ever think about what happens to animals in the wild when they get too old to survive. I have a pretty good idea that they get eaten by something. So birds getting taken by falcons is a natural as anything, falcons are like one of natures filters, ensuring that only the strong survive to reproduce. The fact that said falcon goes home with and trusts the falconer when it is all over is part of the beauty of falconry.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Archangel said:


> A point to ponder when thinking of the use of pigeons in falconry, have you ever seen a wild pigeon that just dropped dead from old age? One that is completly wild and free. Ever think about what happens to animals in the wild when they get too old to survive. I have a pretty good idea that they get eaten by something. So birds getting taken by falcons is a natural as anything, falcons are like one of natures filters, ensuring that only the strong survive to reproduce. The fact that said falcon goes home with and trusts the falconer when it is all over is part of the beauty of falconry.


Well, we're startin' to get into very deep doodoo here .. I have pigeons that live with me that are over 20 years of age.. Obviously I have kept the hawk and a whole bunch of other things away from these birds.

I don't really have a problem with your "sport" but please don't try to make it OK with folks here because it isn't. You need to walk a very fine line here, and you've done it so far.

Terry


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## Archangel (Aug 14, 2010)

Nictorious Ali said:


> You can do falconry with pigeons without all the killing its...peaceful


Ahh... I read this wrong, you mean that a pigeon can act like a falconry bird by sitting on hands and things like you see most falconry birds doing. At first I thought what you said made no sense, falconry without the bird killing its prey would never work, killing prey for food is what they have to do to survive. But I get it now after watching the videos.

Sorry though for me it has nothing to do with a pretty bird that sits on my fist and comes back when it is called. That is basic stuff. I want to see a wild falcon drop from the sky like a rocket. They make a sound like a piece of ham thrown in a hot pan when they dive. It is incredible. I want to see it go hunting and then come home with me because it wants to. It is a beautiful relationship that takes loads of dedication to develope. 

So yes a pigeon can be trained to sit calmly on a fist and be called back. My pigeons are so calm for me because of what my birds of prey have taught me about bird psychology. With pigeons you might get a few chances to make a bad reputation with them. With hawks and falcons you usually get one chance to make a bad impression! I never stare at my birds, birds of prey stare at things they intend to eat soon, it calms the pigeons right down if you look the other way, especially when you are first getting them used to your presence. One bad happening can ruin your progress.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*We Are Done Here ..*

This is getting too anti-pigeon. Thread closed.

Terry


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