# Is this real?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

http://pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=34507


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Real - looks like it.
Crazy seller - likewise.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

It looks real...some people would pay a bunch of money for birds like that...I don't know about that much, especially over the internet. Would help the guys cause if he listed a pedigree, plus the bands of the winning offspring so they could be looked up in the GHC...the GHC just like many clubs/combines is in the AU database.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Take a look at the auction now. Someone placed the opening bid.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

well, let me tell you it is real, I have purchase birds from Mr. Wallace and he sends them in good shape, and he is a very nice person, he sales his bird for a very good price.
My top birds in my loft for 2010 were out of a pair I purchased from him. the man has really good birds.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Wow  I've seen equally or better birds sold for a lot less. 1st place at what distance, against how many lofts? How many crappy birds have they needed to breed in order to produce something worth mentioning? How OLD are these breeders? For all we know, they could be all but sterile by now. If the pair is that "good", why is he selling them? If I had a pair that was truly worth $60,005, I think I'd be keepin'em.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wow  I've seen equally or better birds sold for a lot less. 1st place at what distance, against how many lofts? How many crappy birds have they needed to breed in order to produce something worth mentioning? How OLD are these breeders? For all we know, they could be all but sterile by now. If the pair is that "good", why is he selling them? If I had a pair that was truly worth $60,005, I think I'd be keepin'em.


I totally agree. If they were so good, why not just keep them instead? Just send the kids to futurity races and rake in the big bucks?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

How does that auction site work? Is it like I-Pigeon where they take a cut out of the final price or is it just a set price to sell the bird. Because I'm thinking if they took a cut why would you sell it on there with that info. You aren't gonna get a buyer to pay that from that site with that ad unless they already know more about the birds and then if sombody already wants to pay that much and you want to sell why not just sell in private and not pay any site anything. Or it could just be some kind of gimmik to make some publicity for that loft. But who knows.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> I totally agree. If they were so good, why not just keep them instead? Just send the kids to futurity races and rake in the big bucks?


Because, if he gets his price, he is the winner.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wow  I've seen equally or better birds sold for a lot less. 1st place at what distance, against how many lofts? How many crappy birds have they needed to breed in order to produce something worth mentioning? How OLD are these breeders? For all we know, they could be all but sterile by now. If the pair is that "good", why is he selling them? If I had a pair that was truly worth $60,005, I think I'd be keepin'em.


The GHC is what a lot of people consider to be the premiere area to race homing pigeons in the USA. A couple thousand birds and generally 100+ lofts a race. If they raised 5 separate birds that won 1st place there, they are certainly a good pair.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

The guy who's selling it Stockholm Loft is from Northern New Jersey. He was the breeder of the winner of the GHC Classic.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I know ppl who fly down in the GHC club that used to fly up here they win races down there when they couldn't win up here and they say it's much easier to fly down there most of the guys are really old and don't train their birds how we train them up here.


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## calmcool410 (Mar 17, 2010)

i have all white homers that would leave that pair in the dust


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

I think if this pair bred 5x1st in the GHC then it's worth it also if they bred aces down in the GHC also i think it's worth it. They don't call it "little Belgium" for nothing. I've been down there and I can say if you can win there you can win in Europe. Tons of birds and tons of lofts. They have a loft limit which is 25 per race. So no mob flying. These guys that live there don't even want trophies anymore just trophy money lol too many trophies not enough room. "They were champs in their area they couldn't beat us so they went back, they are now champions again" Art Hees. "only certain bloodline of birds dominate the national races and those are few" Piet deweerd. Chaching $60,000.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

There sure been a lot of money spent on bird this last few months. China 2.8 Mill other birds selling for over $200K. I think some people just want the money. It just like the value od real estate if I want to sell it and you want to but it as long as we agree that what it worth. Make no cents to me!!!!!!!!!!


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

Guess what!!! They got a bid.... Stockholm loft has good birds, last year he auction some of the best eyesign hens I've seen,specially those Napoleon blood, for 200 to 400 bucks a piece but nobody bids,his a big eyesign fanatic...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

He didn't specify those other winners being in the GHC. So I assumed they were club or combine wins.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

bloodlines_365 said:


> Guess what!!! They got a bid.... Stockholm loft has good birds, last year he auction some of the best eyesign hens I've seen,specially those Napoleon blood, for 200 to 400 bucks a piece but nobody bids,his a big eyesign fanatic...


Well THAT sure impresses me  Great to know his birds have pretty eyes.

What does impress me, is that he's won so much in the GHC. It is clear that his birds are good now. But that is just one race, one course. I would like to see how his birds do in other parts of the country


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

Kal-El said:


> I totally agree. If they were so good, why not just keep them instead? Just send the kids to futurity races and rake in the big bucks?


If you have a pair like that, would you sell it for $60,000.00? I bet you would. I would if someone pays that price.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Some times breeders are sold because the breeder may have better children which produce just as good or better then the parents ittself. As well, for that pair to breed winners in the ghc course, it is a very rare find. If it were me, I'd sell it considering that I have more then enough kids off the pair and that they are very great at producing. IF the offsprings don't produce then i'd keep the parents.

Stockholm loft has many great birds. People have their own reasons for selling and buyers have theirs too for buying. Judging from the auction listing, there was not much info to go by, I'm pretty sure the buyer knows the seller and has more than enough information for him to make his bidding offer.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ProPigeon Loft said:


> someone else is giving it a go...
> 
> http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=34689


I know the guy trying to sell that pair I bought one of his birds for a local auction for like 25 bucks just because nobody was bidding on it. The bird turned out to nothing special but he was so sure the bird was a champ and it was wasted becasue I had it. But I think I'm a better flyer then him he has had some birds do good but he sticks them in lofts that are really good handlers so he's bound to get a good one here and there with the handlers that are handling them.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Personally, I do not think any pair of birds is worth 60k. My thoughts are for a couple of grand you can get some birds off the best stock in the world. Are they good, yes, would I like to have them, yes. But too much. But its just like everything else in the world. Put a price on it and eventually someone from China will come and buy it. A few years ago Vandenebelle's were all the rage. 5k a piece, now not so expensive. Koopman's are the rage now a couple of grand a piece. De Rauw Sablon birds bring good money. My advice would be if you want those birds wait a few years the price will go down. Get a few and find your golden pair. 
I think we all feel sometimes that we need the next in thing. I have studied the peds. No better birds than in my pedigrees or yours for that mater. It is the selection that is worth the money not the paper. Get good birds, select well and good things can happen to you. I am convinced that the greats could start over with decent birds and get the same results eventually. Everyone is looking for that magic pair. Many buy them and then dilute the blood and achieve mediocre again.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

ProPigeon Loft said:


> someone else is giving it a go...
> 
> http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=34689


 That Staf Van Reet pair sure does looks like its been feeding lots of offspring thats for sure , as for the $60,000 pair if someone wanted to buy any pair of my birds for that much I would have no problem parting with them lol .


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

For $11,000 I could go buy out a loft that has won 4 or 5 money races here in the last 3 years. For that I could get everything he has that has to do with pigeons. So I'm thinking if I was gonna spend 60,000 I would buy his all his stuff then I could still get the top pair from few more top lofts from my area and I'd still have money left over to build a new coop.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

PigeonVilla said:


> That Staf Van Reet pair sure does looks like its been feeding lots of offspring thats for sure , as for the $60,000 pair if someone wanted to buy any pair of my birds for that much I would have no problem parting with them lol .



He's probly just using them as pumpers and I'm with you if sombody offered me $60,000 for the pair who raised me the 4th place IF Hall of Fame bird this past YB season I'd sell them and do just what I said in my last post. Buy out that bne guy and buy the top pairs out a few more top lofts from my area and build a nice new coop.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

If I were and had 60k to invest I think I would not look to one pair. I would go to the best in the world, the loft that fit my race goals the best and buy a complete round of summer youngsters off of them. Chances are you might have enough left over to build them a small loft.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Look at what that pair has produced in the last three years. Would you really spend $60K for that? If I was going to back up my Brink's truck, I want "hundreds of documented winners backed up with DNA testing." Maybe that's just me.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> He's probly just using them as pumpers and I'm with you if sombody offered me $60,000 for the pair who raised me the 4th place IF Hall of Fame bird this past YB season I'd sell them and do just what I said in my last post. Buy out that bne guy and buy the top pairs out a few more top lofts from my area and build a nice new coop.


lol for $60,000 I would probably part with everything in my loft at a group rate and start all over myself. lol


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

At $60K, what price can he sell babies?

I wouldn't pay that for this pair without any big one loft race wins to back it up. But then look at the pigeon market, Mr Rhodes bought Queen of the Netherlands for 22,000 Euro and sells babies for $7K a piece...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I am pretty sure the seller has better birds as well, but he/she won't be parting with only few thousand dollars with a proven breeders. Are those proven breeders? It looks to me.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Once again the Ganus mentality has hit. You spend way way too much for your birds, Win a race our two with there offspring, and then charge way way too much for your birds. If you take arguably the ten best futurities or one loft races in the nation and ask the owner of the winner how much he paid for the parents. I think you would be very surprised. Most probably a reasonable amount. For instance, a friend in Durango Scott McCallister won the Snowbird in I think 01. He pocketed 30k. One of the parents was a Vic Miller bird he paid $1500 for the other a Vandevelde bird a few generations off an import. Personally I think this would be on the high side if you asked the winners. Many of the winners are just like most of us, you have never heard of them. Some even win with gift birds. Chances are Warren's winners parents did not strain his wallet too badly.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Now if you spend 60k on a pair to win your club futurity of say 500 bucks. You did not invest your money too well.


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Now if you spend 60k on a pair to win your club futurity of say 500 bucks. You did not invest your money too well.


That is exactly what I was driving at - at 60K, the plan has to be to sell babies. The only documentation suggested wins in the GHC - He may end up as the guy who bought 75K worth of birds from Ganus and is selling them on ipigeon for $90 opening bid.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I understand this is a hard economic time, but some people are trying to cash in. 

http://pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=34689


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I may as well put up a bird for multi thousands like everyone else


http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=34695


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

It's like this fishing analogy: a few guys in several boats are casting in some obscured lake and are about to give up until one guy changes his lure and with one cast brings in a big fish. All of a sudden, every guy out there starts changing lures and cast like crazy.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Kal-El said:


> It's like this fishing analogy: a few guys in several boats are casting in some obscured lake and are about to give up until one guy changes his lure and with one cast brings in a big fish. All of a sudden, every guy out there starts changing lures and cast like crazy.


LOL..........now thats a fact.......


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

That's the real fact alrigth!!! No wonder TDM posted his for 50ks...


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

Looks like a Chinese buyer for the 60k guy all he has to do now is sell to china. When do you ever see a grandkid of 2778 rarely.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

calmcool410 said:


> i have all white homers that would leave that pair in the dust


Enter the young from them in the GHC race, win it and you too can have $60000. 
Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Kal-El said:


> It's like this fishing analogy: a few guys in several boats are casting in some obscured lake and are about to give up until one guy changes his lure and with one cast brings in a big fish. All of a sudden, every guy out there starts changing lures and cast like crazy.


I love fishing and what you said is a fact!

There is this analogy of fishing expedition as well or testing the market.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> For $11,000 I could go buy out a loft that has won 4 or 5 money races here in the last 3 years. For that I could get everything he has that has to do with pigeons. So I'm thinking if I was gonna spend 60,000 I would buy his all his stuff then I could still get the top pair from few more top lofts from my area and I'd still have money left over to build a new coop.


Just remember that there are people out there who have lots of money to spend. $60,000 could be pocket change to some of the affluent.


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