# Chicken Wire or Hardware cloth HELP!!



## Nkloft (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm trying to build a small aviary connected to my loft for my pigeons but I really dont know which one to get chicken wire or Hardware cloth which one is better and safer for the pigeons from predators such as Rat,snakes, Racoons, and other predators ??? Help plz


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

No Chicken wire

Use 1/2 x 1 welded wire.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hardware cloth is better. Rodents can get through 1/2 X 1 inch wire.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

thanks i was having same problem  use hardware cloth 1/4 holes x 3 ft tall around bottom and 1" hole chicken wire around top. is that good?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> thanks i was having same problem  use hardware cloth 1/4 holes x 3 ft tall around bottom and 1" hole chicken wire around top. is that good?


Sure, it's great if you are inviting rodents and snakes in. They'll love it.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Sure, it's great if you are inviting rodents and snakes in. They'll love it.


you guys have got it rough with your predators , racoons , snakes as well as the host of bop that you have , id be pitching a tent in the back yard if i had to deal with that lot.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Sure, it's great if you are inviting rodents and snakes in. They'll love it.


even if i put 3 ft of 1/4 hole mesh around the bottom up from ground ,i don't think racoons, or nice or snakes can get threw top if i use 1" poultry fence?, i've done it before living in the city, and there are more mice and rats there then where i am now, we have racoons, possum, rabbits & some snakes but they wont be able to fit threw 1/4" hole do you.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

If a Snake can get its head thru a hole
It can get all its body thru it--no matter how large it is.
But if it swallows a glass or wooden egg--it can't get back out..---now you have it traped.--you know the Answer ??


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

sky tx said:


> If a Snake can get its head thru a hole
> It can get all its body thru it--no matter how large it is.


so true..but the ONLY 2 snakes i have seen so far will not fit threw 1/4" hole their heads are to big.  but i now they have babies too


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> even if i put 3 ft of 1/4 hole mesh around the bottom up from ground ,i don't think racoons, or nice or snakes can get threw top if i use 1" poultry fence?, i've done it before living in the city, and there are more mice and rats there then where i am now, we have racoons, possum, rabbits & some snakes but they wont be able to fit threw 1/4" hole do you.



Why do you think that they couldn't get through the 1" holes in the top? Are these disabled mice or rats that cannot climb? If you did it before and were lucky, then go ahead and do it again and hope for the same luck. Honestly, mice getting in will make your birds VERY sick, and rats will kill them. For the difference in price is it really worth risking the life of your birds? If it is, then go ahead and use the chicken wire, and hope for the best.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Hardware cloth is the only way......


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I put in my vote for the hardware cloth... I learned the hard way.. well one of my birds did.. a snake got in at the top of the loft where I had larger wire.. it sufficated one of my hens by trying to swallow it and of course the bird was too big so he expelled it out.. but the bird was there in the morning waiting for me to find it looking like a wet bowling pin.. it was gross.. and they will swallow squabs and eggs.. if a snake can get in so can mice..you may not think so..but if you have birds they attract them..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Hardware cloth. the 1/2" by 1/2" hardware cloth is fine. Although a mouse can get through a 1/2" crack, it does so by flattening and elongating its body. If the biggest 1/2" crack is only 1/2" long, a mouse cannot gain entrance. And...chicken wire is not welded and is usually a much lighter gauge than hardware cloth. A raccoon can easily tear it away from the frame.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Go for hardware cloth as people recommended here. It is stronger than chicken wire. And usually you don't know what you are dealing with until it is too late. It is at night when bad things happen. And the more your loft is secure the better. It is better to be more overprotective with your loft than less. I have a raccoon here that has been trying to get inside my loft for more than 1 year now and it has gotten bigger! I have seen bite marks.


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

A determined owl can bite a hole through chicken wire. I know this from personal experience.


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## Sionnach Dhu (Jun 18, 2011)

snowyloft said:


> A determined owl can bite a hole through chicken wire. I know this from personal experience.


 And snakes, rats, and mice can climb. I've seen a four-foot black rat snake 6 feet up in a tree, looking for nests.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

snowyloft said:


> A determined owl can bite a hole through chicken wire. I know this from personal experience.


Good Lord! Never would have thought of that one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sionnach Dhu said:


> And snakes, rats, and mice can climb. I've seen a four-foot black rat snake 6 feet up in a tree, looking for nests.




Yep, snakes can and do climb. My sister opened her birdhouse which was about 6 feet up a pole, to find this rat snake. The whole family of birds had been eaten.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

snowyloft said:


> A determined owl can bite a hole through chicken wire. I know this from personal experience.


Since an owl has no teeth how is he able to bite a hole through chicken wire, maybe he just tore a hole through the chicken wire. Did your see the owl damage the chicken wire. Some ***** once pulled so hard on the chicken wire of my poultry pens that they broke one of the wire strands.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

ok ok i will go with the 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth  you guys taught me a lesson on trying to save a buck. but yes my birds are more important thanks for staying on top of this and making me change my mind


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your birds will thank you. And it's just so much better to be safe than sorry. Too many people find out the hard way. Just not worth it. You'll feel better about it. Honest!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

grifter said:


> Since an owl has no teeth how is he able to bite a hole through chicken wire, maybe he just tore a hole through the chicken wire. Did your see the owl damage the chicken wire. Some ***** once pulled so hard on the chicken wire of my poultry pens that they broke one of the wire strands.



If he worked at it long enough, he could break the thin wire of the chicken wire. Same thing as biting through it.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Chicken wire is made to keep chickens confined to an area.
It is not designed to keep predators out, only the birds in.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The problem with that is that the poor birds are trapped in there with no way out if a predator gets in.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> The problem with that is that the poor birds are trapped in there with no way out if a predator gets in.


exactly, so not a good idea to use chicken wire


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

well i don't think my birds are gonna have any trouble getting away if anything did happen to get in( excpet babies). my flight that is being built by my daughters father is going to be 16ft wide x 8 ft deep x 7ft tall...i told him i didn't need anything that big, but he insist on doing it even tho he doesn't like pigeons he says they need room to fly & being they are for our daughter they get the best


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> well i don't think my birds are gonna have any trouble getting away if anything did happen to get in( excpet babies). my flight that is being built by my daughters father is going to be 16ft wide x 8 ft deep x 7ft tall...i told him i didn't need anything that big, but he insist on doing it even tho he doesn't like pigeons he says they need room to fly & being they are for our daughter they get the best


well these critters come in at night and pigeons do not move at night and can not see esp sitting hens....so they are easy pray, does not matter how big it is.. glad your going with the hardware cloth.. it looks better and lasts longer too.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i just can't wait to get this complete and get my kids home..i have been reading books to catch up on what i have kinda forgotten, looking at pic's and saying " i hope i get babies that look like that " and so on i count down the days and look at my calender what 2, 3 times aday..thinking the 13th will get here faster...


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

hi all, can someone put a photo or link of hardware cloth up, so i can view it, i never seen it before ,maybe it goes by a different name over here. thanks


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

wire cloth

http://www.flynnenslow.com/wire_cloth.html

I prefer this type

http://www.flynnenslow.com/wire_cloth_plascoat.html


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy it from many hardware stores on rolls. At least 19 gauge 1/2 inch hardware cloth. Google it. Too light a weight, and animals can easily chew through it.


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

grifter said:


> Since an owl has no teeth how is he able to bite a hole through chicken wire, maybe he just tore a hole through the chicken wire. Did your see the owl damage the chicken wire. Some ***** once pulled so hard on the chicken wire of my poultry pens that they broke one of the wire strands.


I assumed he used his beak. I had an attack one night which left two pigeons dead. Their heads were eaten off and the two of them where neatly piled on top of each other in the corner. Based on the evidence I thought a raccoon had done it. I fixed all areas that looked like an animal could get in and admittedly there were a few. Next morning there was an owl trapped in the loft with another dead pigeon, its head eaten off. Once I got the owl out I found a hole about 6 inches in diameter high up. The wire had been chewed through, the hole spread wide enough for the owl to get in.


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

cheers sdymacz, much appreciated .


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

snowyloft said:


> I assumed he used his beak. I had an attack one night which left two pigeons dead. Their heads were eaten off and the two of them where neatly piled on top of each other in the corner. Based on the evidence I thought a raccoon had done it. I fixed all areas that looked like an animal could get in and admittedly there were a few. Next morning there was an owl trapped in the loft with another dead pigeon, its head eaten off. Once I got the owl out I found a hole about 6 inches in diameter high up. The wire had been chewed through, the hole spread wide enough for the owl to get in.


For that to happen you must have had some really light weight chicken wire. I wouldn't think an owl would even attempt to break through wire like that. Owls usually go after rodents and smaller animals.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

up date..got my wood for flight and it's gonna be 10x8x6 instead of the 16 i said  but its still roomy and i got some hardware cloth last night, but i need more


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy it on 100 foot rolls at hardware stores or probably Home Depot or Lowes. I would think they would sell 50 foot rolls also.
8X10 is a good size.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> You can buy it on 100 foot rolls at hardware stores or probably Home Depot or Lowes. I would think they would sell 50 foot rolls also.
> 8X10 is a good size.


i got 3 rolls of 36" x 10 ft at lowes for $16.90 a roll and i know i will need at leats 3 more  hee hee, they don't carry 100 ft or 50ft rolls just 10 & 25 by me.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pics as you go?


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Pics as you go?


sure will  i did tell everyone i was using an old shed for my loft. 9ft wide x 7ft deep x 8 ft tall will get pic's soon, flight is being built on monday i will get pic's


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That'll be great! Have fun with it.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Glad to see you decided to go with the 1/2 X1/2" mesh...I wrapped my loft and flight cage with it....even buried it in the ground and attached to the frame.
Lost half my birds a couple years ago 
I have an old garden shed for a loft that I converted...


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

horseart4u said:


> i got 3 rolls of 36" x 10 ft at lowes for $16.90 a roll and i know i will need at leats 3 more  hee hee, they don't carry 100 ft or 50ft rolls just 10 & 25 by me.


That's what I did too. At my local Lowes, they get $14.85 for a 10 foot roll, or $45.98 for a 25 foot roll. I figured 30 feet for $44.55 was a better deal than 25 feet for $45.98.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i hear you..they wanted $49.98 for 25ft. i got 30 ft for $50.10. i checked home depot even more $$$ and a local tractor supply store only carried it in 24" x 10 ft or 36" x 5 ft what am i gonna do with that?  i tried to post pic's in my album but it keeps saying upload failed


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i hope it worked here is a pic of the shed and wood we are building the flight out of


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

horseart4u said:


> i hope it worked here is a pic of the shed and wood we are building the flight out of


I know its hard to see in this picture, but I dug down and filled with about 8" of all purpose sand, then I laid 1/4" wire mesh over the sand and attached it to the 2X4 bottom frame, then put the flight cage walls on top of that, so nothing could dig underneath to gain access. Rats and weasels will dig their way inside.









With a metal shed, you just want to make sure you have good ventilation. And if there's no floor in the shed, make sure you put something down so nothing can dig their way inside.......they will try  I still have things trying to dig, but they give up because it's soooo secure, and I constantly check for any weak spots!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

that is what I did as well..dug down, but I put square pavers sunk in the ground..leveled it and put the flight on top of those.. it has worked great so far.. just make sure you get it tight againts the shed so there is not a gap..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Glad to see you decided to go with the 1/2 X1/2" mesh...I wrapped my loft and flight cage with it....even buried it in the ground and attached to the frame.
> Lost half my birds a couple years ago
> I have an old garden shed for a loft that I converted...


I love your Maine pigeon cottage... with the shakes and all.. so cute!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> I know its hard to see in this picture, but I dug down and filled with about 8" of all purpose sand, then I laid 1/4" wire mesh over the sand and attached it to the 2X4 bottom frame, then put the flight cage walls on top of that, so nothing could dig underneath to gain access. Rats and weasels will dig their way inside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Msfreebird is the authority on this! She had a horrific experience with Norway Rats a few years ago. She has been passing on her learning to the rest of us since. I'm sure her story has helped many of us maintain a secure loft (I know it helped me!)


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ptras said:


> Msfreebird is the authority on this! She had a horrific experience with Norway Rats a few years ago. She has been passing on her learning to the rest of us since. I'm sure her story has helped many of us maintain a secure loft (I know it helped me!)


Thanks ptras  I don't EVER want to experience what I walked into that morning in the loft again........I will never get that picture out of my mind and it still upsets me to look at old pictures of the birds I lost


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i did put 2x4's along the walls inside and attatched wire mesh about 2ft inwards towards middle, then covered it all with sand, gonna put some wire mesh around the out side as well and cover with stone. i am looking to put mesh around the bottom in the flight and add some sand because i know they like to lay in it on sunny days  but want them to have a bit of grass as well.. oh and shed is very airy with both doors open i have spent many hours in there trying it out on myself  they will get the sun in the doorway all morning till around 2 or 3 and will have sun allday in flight till it goes down behind trees.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> i did put 2x4's along the walls inside and attatched wire mesh about 2ft inwards towards middle, then covered it all with sand, gonna put some wire mesh around the out side as well and cover with stone. i am looking to put mesh around the bottom in the flight and add some sand because i know they like to lay in it on sunny days  but want them to have a bit of grass as well.. oh and shed is very airy with both doors open i have spent many hours in there trying it out on myself  they will get the sun in the doorway all morning till around 2 or 3 and will have sun allday in flight till it goes down behind trees.


That sounds great.. and in Fla you can leave it open all year..


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> That sounds great.. and in Fla you can leave it open all year..


Yes! Not like up here where we have to cover it up 6 months out of the year


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

hey we get cold down here to just no snow  we had nasty rain the other day i checked and with both door open nothing got wet inside either  and when i say rain i couldn't see my shed out my window, and its not that far away from back door so you can imagine how hard it was raining


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

horseart4u said:


> *hey we get cold down here to just no snow*  we had nasty rain the other day i checked and with both door open nothing got wet inside either  and when i say rain i couldn't see my shed out my window, and its not that far away from back door so you can imagine how hard it was raining


LOL, you don't go below zero degrees! But I'll take the cold up here anyday over your hurricane season down there


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

hee hee, i have lived threw a few moved here in 04. but i love the weather non the less.i do not miss the snow


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

msfreebird, by the way i LOVE your black & white bird in this photo, are they homers?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

horseart4u said:


> msfreebird, by the way i LOVE your black & white bird in this photo, are they homers?


Which photo? the one under my signature with the 5 birds lined up? Those are homers, tumblers and homer/tumbler cross. I have all colors! 
The silver saddle by my screen name is an American Fantail


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

yes the five  my daughter wants 2 blk & white one's and so far we haven't found what fits her taste and she's only 4 years old


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

well put my mesh hardware cloth out side around shed today layered with sand and got my first boo boo. i sliced my finger pretty deep on the wire, but all is ok it didn't even bleed  cleaned it and now wearing a band aide  i have to get my stone now to put on top of the sand..big day tomorrow we start on flight


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What did you do? Connect it to the bottom of the shed and go down and out? Not understanding what you did. Just wondering. Glad it wasn't a bad cut. That stuff can be sharp.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i already put it down in side the shed by digging under it, ( we have sand here ) around the sides and going 3 ft inwards toward middle. out side i dug under it again till i met the other i put down inside. Out side i covered with sand and i am gonna put white stone or naturel color stone on top of that  when i can my budget is getting close


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The only problem with that is that if a rat were to try and tunnel in, than how do you know that he wouldn't tunnel past the three feet of wire? If I were to do it that way, then I would have also wired the center so there would be no way he could get up and in.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i haven't seen any rats here just field mice and snakes, i hope it will do i can't buy any more wire i am at my budget now


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well I couldn't do that here, as we have a neighbor who leaves food out for the feral cats she feeds, and it attracts everything from the woods and river across the street from her, including rats, skunks, opposums, etc. I hate rats.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i hear you about the rats, i have had my share of field mice in the house and as much as i hate to " kill " anything, i had to get glue traps they were smart not to eat poison or go into the non-kill trap so i did what i had to, caught the hole family i think haven't seen any more since. i do have racoon that comes around once in a blue moon but everytime i turn on light it runs, so i will leave back light on when i get my kids home  here is an update pic.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Going to be a nice size flight pen.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

hey i started a new post called A&D LOFTS in loft designs, it's got new pic's up of the construction going on, i just wish it would stop raining so i can get it done


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