# how many of u use BORAX in your bath



## adamant

i been reading a lot about it.. whats the rate u use per gallon and do u add anything in it with the borax ?


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## bbcdon

I use about a tablespoon to about 2 gallons of water. It is the 20 Mule Team laundry booster.


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## RodSD

User here as well. I use 1 tablespoon per gallon. I add more if I want, too. It cleans the bird real well especially if they are white birds. They look so ****** clean.


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## bcr1

I use it but my birds dont seam to want baths so I don't know how well it works from personal exp. Eventually they will I guess.


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## spirit wings

1 tabls per gallon, can't beat it for the cost! it keeps lice at bay. you really should use it, you can't even see it in the water if you put it in first and then add the water and swish it around with your hand. here is one of my frillbacks after his bath....sparkling !


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## benjajudy01

I use a three gallon container for their bath. I use 3 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team BORAX + 1 tablespoon of bath salt + 1/2 teaspoon of Clorox (every other time). It has worked VERY WELL for about three year for me. Also I only have White Birds.


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## adamant

Yo ben. That Clorox don't hurt the birds? I went and bought some. 2.47 a box. I. Picked up two boxes.


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## spirit wings

No Bleach In The Water!!!!! That Can Hurt Their Eyes And other Tissues. Just The Borax Is All You Need, The Bath Salts Are Minerals Which Is What The Borax Is, So I Don't See The Point.


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## Ashby Loft

Here's some interesting info on Borax......
http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthingsworkfaqs/a/howboraxworks.htm



> What Is Borax?
> Borax (also known as sodium borate decahydrate; sodium pyroborate; birax; sodium tetraborate decahydrate; sodium biborate) is a natural mineral compound (Na2B4O7 • 10H2O). It was discovered over 4000 years ago. Borax is usually found deep within the ground, although it has been mined near the surface in Death Valley, California since the 1800s. Although it has numerous industrial uses, in the home borax is used as a natural laundry booster, multipurpose cleaner, fungicide, preservative, insecticide, herbicide, disinfectant, dessicant, and ingredient in making 'slime'. Borax crystals are odorless, whitish (can have various color impurities), and alkaline. Borax is not flammable and is not reactive. It can be mixed with most other cleaning agents, including chlorine bleach.
> 
> How Does Borax Clean?
> 
> Borax has many chemical properties that contribute to its cleaning power. Borax and other borates clean and bleach by converting some water molecules to hydrogen peroxide (H2O2). This reaction is more favorable in hotter water. The pH of borax is about 9.5, so it produces a basic solution in water, thereby increasing the effectiveness of bleach and other cleaners. In other chemical reactions, borax acts as a buffer, maintaining a stable pH needed to maintain cleansing chemical reactions. The boron, salt, and/or oxygen of boron inhibit the metabolic processes of many organisms. This characteristic allows borax to disinfect and kill unwanted pests. Borates bonds with other particles to keep ingredients dispersed evenly in a mixture, which maximizes the surface area of active particles to enhance cleaning power.
> 
> Risks Associated with Borax
> 
> Borax is natural, but that does not mean it is automatically safer for you or for 'the environment' than man-made chemicals. Although plants need boron, too much of it will kill them, so borax can be used as an herbicide. Borax may also be used to kill roaches, ants, and fleas. In fact, it is also toxic to people. Signs of chronic toxic exposure include red and peeling skin, seizures, and kidney failure. The estimated lethal dose (ingested) for adults is 15-20 grams; less than 5 grams can kill a child or pet. For this reason, borax should not be used around food. More commonly, borax is associated with skin, eye, or respiratory irritation. It is also important to point out that exposure to borax may impair fertility or cause damage to an unborn child.
> 
> Now, none of these risks mean that you shouldn't use borax. If you do a bit of research, you will find risks associated with all cleaning products, natural or man-made. However, you do need to be aware of product risks so that you can use those products properly. Don't use borax around food, keep it out of reach of children and pets, and make sure you rinse borax out of clothes and off of surfaces before use.


edited to add.....
I've been using it for a couple of weeks since I finished my bigger loft. My birds are looking good.


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## Crazy Pete

Add me to the list, i didn't know about the risk, but i'll still use it.
Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft

benjajudy01 said:


> I use a three gallon container for their bath. I use 3 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team BORAX + 1 tablespoon of bath salt + 1/2 teaspoon of Clorox (every other time). It has worked VERY WELL for about three year for me. Also I only have White Birds.


NEVER EVER MIX BLEACH with anything else in the water....IMHO.

But put me down on the list for using Borax. 

On the post concerning dangers of Borax, I guess you should remind people not to eat it. Guess you shoudn't eat Tide, or drink bleach either. People sometimes do strange things.


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## Lovebirds

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> *NEVER EVER MIX BLEACH with anything else *in the water....IMHO.
> 
> But put me down on the list for using Borax.
> 
> On the post concerning dangers of Borax, I guess you should remind people not to eat it. Guess you shoudn't eat Tide, or drink bleach either. People sometimes do strange things.



That is about a true statement as anyone can make. I've known people to get VERY sick simply from smelling the fumes of bleach mixed with different substances. 
I've never used anything BUT Borax in the bath water. You DO need to be careful with it though. Don't leave the pans laying around with residue because the birds WILL pick at it and it CAN be dangerous. We keep dangerous things out of reach of children and our other pets during our whole life. Your pigeons are no different. Mix the water, put it in the pan, let them bath, then dump the water and remove the pan from the loft. If you do this always, then there are no dangers in using the Borax.


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## Bella

I was using borax in my bath water up until recently. I had 3 young birds go into the loft that did well for about a week in the loft. 
Then their poops got runny, they got lethargic, and one of them stopped eating. They all lost a little weight. At first I thought it was just stress. They cleared up after a couple days and seemed fine. A couple days later, they relapsed..went through it again, and again cleared up just like before after a few days.
Then the next week after feeding them I gave them their bath with borax in it and sat on the picnic table just to watch them take their bathes. Lo and behold the 3 youngest came out into the aviary and started chugging the bath water. 
They always have clean fresh water, I do use ACV, but only once a week but never near bath day, I stagger baths and ACV. But these 3 for some odd reason insist on drinking the bath water. 

They have forced me to quit using it. Oh well. I'll use it on my laundry


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Bella said:


> I was using borax in my bath water up until recently. I had 3 young birds go into the loft that did well for about a week in the loft.
> Then their poops got runny, they got lethargic, and one of them stopped eating. They all lost a little weight. At first I thought it was just stress. They cleared up after a couple days and seemed fine. A couple days later, they relapsed..went through it again, and again cleared up just like before after a few days.
> Then the next week after feeding them I gave them their bath with borax in it and sat on the picnic table just to watch them take their bathes. Lo and behold the 3 youngest came out into the aviary and started chugging the bath water.
> They always have clean fresh water, I do use ACV, but only once a week but never near bath day, I stagger baths and ACV. But these 3 for some odd reason insist on drinking the bath water.
> 
> They have forced me to quit using it. Oh well. I'll use it on my laundry


My birds almost always sample the bath water by drinking some of it. And my birds have not experiened any ill effects. At the doseage I use, I wouldn't be afraid to take a sip myself. If it was that toxic, then it would not be suitable for giving birds a bath in it. 

As a side note, IMHO ACV should be used more frequently. There can be numerous causes for runny stools etc. Quite possible, your birds had become sick, and there were times when the birds appeared to get a little better. But, they could have been sick for weeks. 

I'm only suggesting, that it's possible, you could have drawn the wrong conclusion from a set of circumstances.


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## spirit wings

my birds will drink some of the water which is more than they are used to and have water poops after, but they have never been sick, I have been using it over a year now, so if they drink alot of water no matter where it came from they will have what I call water poops. the poop is back to normal in a day.


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## NetRider

hey all,

have read quite a bit about borax on this forum, but the funny thing is that I am not able to figure out what something like that would be called in Norway. I tried the word boraks which is the chemical name for borax in norwegian, but google only give me info on the chemical itself, and no products. Can some other laundry powder be used instead you think?


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## Crazy Pete

Bleach, Chlorine is a carcinogenn, and that has been proven to cause cancer. I can see no reason to have the stuff in your house, but if you want to kill your birds thats up to you.
Dave


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