# I'm worried about bird flu? Will my pigeons catch it?



## -Heather- (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm really worried about the bird flu killing my pigeons,
Is anybody else?
And how can i help them if i can at all

Thank you

Heather


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Heather,

This has been the topic of many threads here, and if you use the 'search' tool above in the tool bar, you will find much valuable information on the subject. Pigeons have been tested in controlled environments for their ability to contract the illness, and apparently have not. It would seem safe to say that for now, pigeons are more likely to be threatened by an overzealous response to the public's concerns about bird flu than they are the actual illness. 

Especially in a pet situation where the birds are not free flying outdoors, I don't think you'll have a lot to worry about. But as always, it's a good idea to do your homework on the topic at the least so that you can explain to others why they should not fear your pets.

fp


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## -Heather- (Feb 25, 2006)

*Thanks fp*

Thanks fp u have really put my mind at rest 
Heather


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi,

I have been doing some reading on this, and not wanting to disagree with Fp perhaps there is better information, according to the Royal Pigeon Racing Society at this link http://www.rpra.org/ pigeons are susceptible to both low and high pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI, H5N1).

I don't really know what this means for us all, but since reading in a local paper the other day that the 6 Royal Ravens at the Tower of London have been in effect quarantined from contact with all feral birds, including pigeons for the time being, this has never happened before in history dating back centuries, it has given me pause for thought on where all of this is going. Link to story http://tinyurl.com/py9o5


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi there Jazaroo,

Now it is going to sound like I am disagreeing here but I did go to the site you pointed to and some of the first words were:

_"Considerable veterinary research has been conducted on the effects of AI on racing pigeons and vets have concluded that racing pigeons *are resistant or minimally susceptible to infection *of High Pathogenic AI or Low Pathogenic AI. 

(source: Perkins LE, Swayne DE and www.avian-influenza.com )"._

To me it reads that pigeons, after being extensively studied, show a resistance to Avian Influenza. This would confirm almost everything I have read on the subject to date. Mind you, most sources say all that could change depending on the dynamics and evolution of AI. The final chapters on this have not been written by along shot. Sorry about being disagreeable. Anyway, did you check out the other link noted there:

www.avian-influenza.com

Cameron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cameron,

I guess to me there is difference between being minimally susceptible and not susceptible at all, as Fp post seemed to indicate. As I pointed out I am happy to be corrected and only posted in the interest of making sure my own understanding is accurate. My point was that even if the chance is rather small, I think is imperative that we know exactly what is possible. I did check your link and the information I posted is only a few days old so maybe there is newer information.

To also quote from my link



> I think it is worth recapping one or 2 points about avian influenza.* Firstly the research that was collated by pigeon vets and used to encourage DEFRA to change their rigid stance on racing pigeon events is quite clear.* Dr Pascal Lanneau has clearly stated that "Although the pigeons are very resistant to the Low Pathogenic Avian Influenza (LPAI), there is a chance that they become infected with the High Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI, H5N1); this is confirmed by recent research. This means that we have to be careful in this matter concerning the outbreak of the AI. Pigeons don’t play a very important role in the transmission of the AI, but not important doesn’t mean that they don’t play a role at all”.*In a nutshell then, the AI that is currently in France is the HPAI variant and could be caught by racing pigeons.*


If this information is not correct, please correct me. To me it means if they can catch the HPA1 it would seem to me that they would also be susceptible to H5N1 or am I off base? I don't take it as you disagreeing but putting forth something for debate, which I find brings clarity to many situations.

I just really do not like the feeling I have about this whole situation, including the culling of untold birds around the world. I don't like to take things for granted and I know if virus ever becomes rampant what the fate of many many feral birds will be, as well as the feeling toward people who keep any type of bird.

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cameron, that is why I said that it seems safe to say for now. No one knows where it will or will not evolve to. There has also been considerable conversation regarding the topic at NYCPRC and here's a link that was posted there:

http://www.avian-influenza.com/Disease/AI_in_poultry/ai_pigeons.asp

Again, I think for now, pigeons seem to be posed with the threat of fear mongering and knee jerk "containment" efforts more than the avian flu strain itself that has folks so concerned.

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Sorry about that fp if I was not so clear. I am in total agreement with your comments. I probably just didn't say that in so many words the first time around. My disagreement was with the remarks that pigeons were susceptible to bird-flu as that seems unlikely right now based on all evidence offered so far and the offered site also suggested a limited risk to pigeons from H5N1. I posted that and probably you also went to the same site and came to the same conclusion as me. 

Anyway Ron, 

I am actually trying really hard to not be so disagreeable lately and am not meaning to challenge what you are saying but have come to other conclusions from my readings than what you suggested. I do agree wholeheartedly with your comments about the risks to birds though in general. Fear and panic and ignorance are a bad mix in the general population. Many millions of birds will surely die a needless death because of false beliefs and bad information disseminated by the media. 

We are seeing it happen as I speak. On TV, Radio in the papers etc. Live birds are being sacked up and buried alive for no other reason than that they are birds in the wrong place, at the wrong time. The authorities are merciless in the way these animals are disposed of. So yes, the more we can learn now the better for all of us who have birds. Check out these recent threads at Pigeon-Talk for yourself.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13974&highlight=Avian

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13929&highlight=Avian

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13536&highlight=Avian

Something that has come up several times before that seems important to me is that once a bird-flu becomes a human disease, then it is no longer a bird illness. It has jumped the species barrier so to speak and so does not necessarily represent a reverse risk to birds. Good to know.
Hope these threads are helpfull. Sorry again for sounding disagreeable but I had to weigh in after I read your link. 

Cameron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cameron,

Thank you for the links you provided. 

I can assure you I did not take your response personally in any way, or even as disagreeable. I took it that you are as interested as I am in having the correct information concerning avian flu available and clearly understood.

The END outbreak link found in one posts from the links you provided I found especially informative, the quarantine and KILL notice information was disconcerting, to say the least. Something I truly hope we never have to deal with concerning our birds.

Ron


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Me too Ron,

But history repeats itself so we do need to be ready. Glad your feelings weren't hurt. It is hard to express yourself sometimes without people getting bent out of shape as the old expression goes. I do think though that the more discussion we have the better. It is to our benefit to know what we are up against vis-a-vis bird flu and attitudes of others. It's a dangerous world right now for birds isn't it.

All the best.

Cameron.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I think, from the various links to scientific testing I've seen, that the gist is that pigeons are extremely resistant but not 100%.

However, it's likely worth considering that the incidence of pigeons either getting sick themselves or being able to pass it on was very, very low even in laboratory conditions where they'd get the 'full blast' of the H5N1 virus. Maybe I'm being over optimistic, but it would suggest that the risk would be even less likely for them to get it from 'casual' encounters outside.

John


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Sorry about that fp if I was not so clear. I am in total agreement with your comments. I probably just didn't say that in so many words the first time around. .......
> 
> Cameron


Not at all, Cameron, I think we were saying the same thing. The mutation of it is the unkown factor.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I, too, am VERY concerned about all the media info. 

I feel so badly for the birds that are killed by the THOUSANDS, especially in very inhumane ways! Not only am I upset but, what is even worse, is the "mob" mentality! What man fears, man DESTROYS! 

And WHAT REALLY SCARES ME, if this bird flu spreads (which seems a foregone conclusion!), what will the world be like with NO birds!!??

MANKIND WILL REALLY BE IN DEEP DOO DOO THEN!!! I, personally, would NOT like to be around...


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## christina11 (Jan 20, 2006)

Yes i must say i feel sorry for these birds too iv even seen pictures of dead swans!!! i could not belive it poor things i wish there was no such things as those flus and such !!!!! being in canada there are lots of crows thativ been told can carry flus and that so i must watch my pigeons dont go near them but then again crows are the birds that scare away the hawks from my backyard


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

christina11 said:


> being in canada there are lots of crows thativ been told can carry flus and that so i must watch my pigeons dont go near them but then again crows are the birds that scare away the hawks from my backyard


Hi Christina,

Though it is certainly possible for crows to get avian flu, I believe it is West Nile Virus that you may be thinking of. Corvids are particularly susceptible to WNV, and the mortalitly rate is very, very high. 

Terry


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## skyblue (Mar 18, 2006)

Avian flu viruses are transmitted among birds through respiratory secretions and fecal droppings. The H5N1 virus is not easily transmissible from birds to people, but health officials are concerned it could develop into another form that spreads readily from person to person, triggering a global health crisis known as a pandemic. tamiflu is most popular medicine for avian flu.Tamiflu is a medicine to treat flu infection caused by influenza virus.
http://www.drugdelivery.ca/s3353-s-tamiflu.aspx 
Tamiflu can also decrease the ailments that occur together with flu such as weakness, headache, cough, fever and sore throat in just the first day of intake.


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