# Help! What do I do???



## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

I'm absolutely devastated right now. Most of you know I haven't been well lately and yesterday, after having a few extra rough days of major coughing, along with chest pain and other gross things I called my doctor back. I hadn't told him previous about my having Mel and Misty, but decided I should mention it. I spoke with his nurse and she told me she would talk to my doctor and return my call. It wasn't even 5 minutes when he called me back and told me to get rid of Mel and Misty immediately!

I told him that they had no other place to live, but I would do my best to find a home but how did he know that they were "for sure" what was making me sick. Maybe I should come in for tests or something? He told me to place them outside immediately or just let them go and seal off their room and do not enter it again for at least 10 days. Then he said I should come back to his office Monday morning.

I admit, he frightened me. But there's NO way I'm going to just let Mel and Misty go outside, they will die, I just know it! They are only a little over two months old and if something happened to them I would never forgive myself. I'm heartbroken just knowing that I have to let them go and it's tough enough to deal with that, there's no way I'm not making sure they go somewhere where they can be fed on a daily basis and safe from harm.

Another thing, my oldest dog Sheba starting coughing two days ago.  I'm afraid maybe she has gotten something from them also. She's scheduled to see the vet on Monday afternoon. I'm just scared that I'm letting Mel and Misty go without "absolute" proof that they are what is causing these problems. I admit, it's looking more than coincidential now and if Sheba is sick because of them, that'll make me feel even more horrible. I mean, I can deal with my being sick, but putting my dogs at risk tears me up.

I called my local humane society this morning, they gave me two phone numbers, one for a wild life sanctuary, which told me they are too full to take in two pigeons and another who will not even take pigeons. If I were able to find a private home, I feel I must tell them about my being ill, isn't that the right thing to do? Will that hinder Mel and Misty finding a home? I'm not even absolutely sure they are carrying anything to cause an illness, if they were, wouldn't they be sick also? Can they just be carriers and not be ill? Can't I just be treated if it is positive it's something from the pigeons and not get it again? What about my dogs, can they be treated? I have another dog that isn't coughing, but what her? I have so many questions and I'm so scared of doing something out of haste because of fear...I just don't know what to do, can anyone help?


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

This is a hard subeject to touch on. First do you have other health problems that could relate to this. Second I do not know of any thing that would pass to a dog from pigeons. Sure pigeon dust can cause some lung problems. allergies and such act up. But If your doctor thinks you have a problem with keeping the birds. I wont even touch on That. Its between you and the doctor. Go see the doctor let him deturmine your sickness. Act from there.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Izzy, 

Just read your post. I agree with Re lee. Wait and see what your doctor says is the problem, it might be correctable or something else entirely. Once you hear what he has to say, then you can work from that. Hopefully he is a good doctor that knows what's he's talking about and not over-reacting because of the birds. Keep us posted and we'll try to help in any way we can.


Brad


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Izzy,

If your doctor thought that the pigeons were carrying a disease that was so dangerous to humans would he advise you to release them?

And if he is so certain that the pigeons are causing your symptoms would he not also be able to tell you what is wrong with you?

And if you were ill from a pigeon related disease, what point would there be in sealing the room for 10 days? You would not be affected by further exposure and sealing a room for 10 days would achieve nothing other than to let the dust settle.

So on this basis I would guess he suspects that you *may* have a severe allergic reaction. Only he can confirm that. *Get him to tell you at least what he suspects so that you can make an informed choice!!!!*

If it is an allergy then you can confidently rehome them. I know that many of our members will want to help, but can't do it overnight.

If you release Misty and Mel now the most likely outcome will be a slow death from starvation.

I think that in panicking you this way without giving you any information he is behaving most unprofessionally.


Cynthia


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Izzy,

I am so sorry to hear about all of this. Click on Search, type in "pigeon breeders lung" and the second thread on the list w/ that same name provides alot of information, if in fact, this is the ailment that your doctor thinks you might have.
Until you can get back to your doctor for additional tests, etc., perhaps you could cut down on your direct contact w/ Mel and Misty or at least wear one of those "surgical" looking masks to filter out the dust and whatnot that may be affecting you.
I am not very well versed on all of this, but I am tending to think that your doctor probably thinks its this "pigeon breeders lung" that is the trouble. It is not supposed to be that common, but if you have had allergy troubles before, and I think you mentioned that you had, it would be common sense to deduct that your current problems are a result from living in such close quarters w/ Mel and Misty.
Try not to panic yet...there may be other alternatives....if it is allergies from "living with" Mel and Misty, perhaps an outdoor setup is an option.
Good luck,
Linda


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

I'm sorry for just blurting out everything here, honestly, I didn't know where else to go. I'm super upset at the thought of Mel and Misty not being here and guess I'm not thinking really clearly right now.

I tried to talk longer with my doctor this morning, he was in a rush and was just so non-chalant and adamant about my birds. I think you are right though, I can't see what harm having them for a few more days will do. I will just limit my exposure and not bring them out to hang out with me in the other areas of the house for right now, until I get some clear, concise answers, I just have too many questions that still need answering to do anything rash.

Just for the record, I do not have any other health problems that could be relating to this. I really thought and still feel that I just got the flu last month, which turned into bronchitis and then eventually walking pneumonia. I've had the flu and bronchitis in the past, a few years ago, as a matter of fact, but honestly, I've never stayed ill longer than a two weeks, especially once I'd gotten a breathing treatment and an inhaler, which I have again. But then again, I've never had walking pneumonia either, so I'm sure that would make me stay ill longer. I just don't seem to be getting better.

I guess I am worried now that maybe I contracted psittacosis (sp?) from Mel or Misty. I'm hoping my doctor can do a special test to tell me postively if this is the case. I read that having psittacosis can eventually lead to pneumonia if not treated quickly enough. I didn't go to the doctor right away when I first got ill because it never occurred to me that it would be anything other than just the normal flu/bronchitis and would go away. After reading all the symptoms of psittacosis and seeing that I'm having ALL of these things going on now, really bothers me. The one that really struck a nerve was 'abnormal tolerance to light' which I never had before, but noticed this past week how even the light from my monitor makes me squint, even though I've turned the brightness all the way down. I can understand the night sweats, diarrhea, vomiting, chills, fever and fatigue having to do with the regular flu, but this one symptom is odd.

After reading about psittacosis at the OSH site, the one Cynthia posted a link too in my older thread about health and pigeons, I continued to look around for more information. I then read that though more rare, it can be spread to other animals. I'm not sure if this is true or not, just what I read and now with Sheba having this cough, which she's never had before, it's got me probably a bit paranoid. Lily isn't coughing at all, but she's younger at 6 years old and Sheba is quite old at 12 years.

Ok, I'm feeling better now, at least mentally, lol! I'll definitely let you know what happens after my visit with my doctor on Monday.

Thank you for your reassurance re lee and Brad, it definitely helped me get a grip.

Izzy


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Thank you Cynthia and Linda, I posted my earlier message at the same time you were posting yours. 

You are right Cynthia, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I am with my doctor! I mean, he REALLY frightened me! That definitely made me very frantic and it's definitely not fair for him to just tell me those things without giving me any answers. I was trying to ask him the questions I originally posted here, but he kept interrupting, saying he was busy and to just do what he said.

Linda, thank you for posting what I finally starting thinking, once I stopped freaking out, lol! I can limit my exposure for a few days, though I'll miss them on my shoulder and talking to them, but at least it's not harmful for them, like it would be should I just let them go outside, which I'm NOT going to do!

I hadn't thought of pigeons lung or allergies, but that is a very good point! Again, I have SOME many questions, how can I make any type of major decision without having some answers.

Thank you again, I knew I came to the right place with my worries, I'm feeling much better now and happy to make a rational decision not based on being freaked out.

I'll keep you posted as soon as I get some real answers.

Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Psitticosis/ornithosis/chlamyda is not supposed to be very common in pigeons from all my readings. It IS contagious to humans however. Do Mel and Misty have any unusual symptoms such as runny eyes, nose or discharges? If they had this disease at birth it is unlikely they would have ever survived to adulthood. Young pigeons are very suseptible to illness and usually won't survive without treatment.



Brad


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Izzy,
I agree with the comments made thus far.
* If Mel & Misty are such a threat to human life, I can't imagine your Dr. suggesting to release them.
* From what I've read, 'Pigeon Lung' is ususally diagnosed in people who care for large lofts, hundreds of pigeons, not necessarily two pigeons.
* Asthma & allergies could certainly be playing a role in your, & Sheba's, health issues. 
We recently took Reese, our two year old cat, to the vet on an emergency basis as he began coughing accompanied with labored/opened mouth breathing. He was diagnosed with 'asthma'. The vet feels perhaps the pigeon feather dust & feathers themselves could have triggered his attack as he has access to the AZ room where 4 of our pigeons are housed. 
He has been placed on a course of Prednisone & is doing wonderfully.

I think your Dr. was being a bit dramatic with his advice. JMO.  


Until you are able to sort things out, please try not to get too stressed over this as it will only enhance your present condition. I know that's easier said than done.  

Sending happy thoughts to you, Mel, Misty & Sheba.  


Cindy


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Maybe the darder from the birds is acting up on the bronchitis. If I'm not mistaken it stays in the system for awhile without symtoms.  Maybe it's get agravated.
Trying to be hopeful for me and you.
Hilary Dawn


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Izzy,

I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope it works out for the best.

You've gotten a lot of good words and positive comments from folk here. If I may, let me also add that when you talk to your doctor next make sure he knows that you're not going to let the converstation be over until you understand why he was so adiment about you getting rid of the birds right now, to the extent of putting them out and what it is he suspects they may be causing. You've already heard that from others here in one way or another and I'm sure you will.

Okay, if it comes down to it and you have to part with Mel and Misty... let me say... I'll take them in. I know I'm way out here in CA, which would mean you'd have to ship them to me, but if you cannot find someone closer or it has to be sooner then later or something... PM me with your info and I'll have a shipping box drop-shipped to you from Jedds or Foys... meanwhile I'll send you a check for shipping and we'll get help from experts here on the board about how to prepare them for the trip.

I hope it works out where you get to keep them, but if it doesn't, I'm sure someone closer to you will take them in... if not, they can take a little road trip to CA and move in with my birds.


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hello all and thank you SOOOOO much for your very reassuring posts. I'm glad I ran right here now and freaked out on all of you, lol! I was embarrassed at first, but I know all of you understand and I really appreciate that.

Zig, your post made me cry, so nice of you to make such a generous offer. Don't worry, I've been a crybaby all day, lol! But again, it's wonderful that you would take them in, if I have to let them go. I won't know anything for sure until after I visit my doc on Monday and I'll have a few words for him.  

Just wanted to say thanks again and so happy to find people like me who understand how one can bond so much to silly pigeons, lol!

Izzy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Izzy,

I am sorry that you have the extra worry about your dog. As you know I have two beloved dogs and I would be horrified if I thought I had exposed them to any risk. I would also be horrified if I exposed any of my pigeons to a sick rescue.

Kimberley, who is a rehabilitator, has had ornithosis and therefore will be able to give you a better insight into the symptoms than the rest of us. Her user name is e0emouse. Perhaps you could send her a private message or e-mail as she doean't often log on.

Cynthia


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

I do not think it is Mel and Misty that are making you sick. It may be something in the air. I think that the doctor just wants you to get rid of them. Because people are always trying to get me to get rid of Sweetie. Even pastors! Please don't get rid of your babies.

Thank you,

Victoria Lutes (Sweetie)


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Hi,

I have had psittacossis, and it was easily treated with ciprofloxacyn. Your birds can be tested for it, and treated as well. I would be highly surprised if two month old birds have it, and are asymptomatic, but anything is possible. Unless you haven't changed their cage in two months, I doubt that they are dirty enough to be shedding it in airborne material. However, like I said, anything is possible. I contracted it while giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation during surgery on a feral bird attacked by a hawk. He died, I felt like I was going to a month later! LOL A veterinarian can test for it, and dispense antibiotics.

This is cold and flu season. There are many things going around. If he told you that the birds gave you a disease and he hasn't even tested or treated you for it, he is endangering you as well as the birds. You can also be tested for allergies to the birds, I have been tested. There are other zoonotic disease besides psittacossis, most are diagnosable through tests.

I would guess that it was precautionary on his part to tell you to get rid of the birds, as it is true that many birds carry disease. However, hand-raised birds who are otherwise healthy would be less likely than a feral found sick in an alley.

I hope that you feel better soon! Call a good avian vet, even if there is not one in your area. They could walk your vet through a good exam and testing procedures.

Best of luck,
Kimberly


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Kimberly interesting post. Can you tell us more about this ? what causes it ?

Izzy why can't the birds go outside ? I think health wise for the birds it is much better for them as long as it isdone correctly. I think that the doctor is looking at eliminating any possibility's and the birds are a good start in his mind.

Scott


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hello all and thank you again for your replies. I really appreciate your thoughts and kind words. 

Thank you also for posting Kimberly and I'm glad you recovered and hope you are doing well. I keep their room very clean, going in and out of their room all day to clean, feed, play, talk and just hang out with them. They spend all night in there, but I open the door every morning and they can go whereever they want to in my home. They usually just go as far as the kitchen cabinets, though I can coax them into the living room and bedroom to hang out there. They are both very healthy, with as much as I know about pigeon health, they have great appetites, look good and are very active. Honestly, I have no clue what is going on with me right now. My doctor didn't say I had any type of disease/disorder, all he said was for me to get rid of my two pigeons asap! 

First of all, it's a Saturday, so they had to actually page him to call me. Normally, just a nurse would call me back with what to do and he did return my call quickly. He's been my primary care physician for 5 years now, so he knows about my allergy history and other ailments. He told me to put them outside, let them go if they can fly, stay away from them, etc. I don't think he realized how vulnerable they would be should I just 'let them go', or how attached to them I am, but he was just trying to give me a quick fix until I see him on Monday. Obviously, he believes Mel and Misty have something to do with my condition, but again, to what extend is something that I'm not aware of. I won't know anything until I see him and until then, Mel and Misty are fine and in their room, I'm just limiting my exposure to them and not letting them fly all over the house like I usually do.



> Izzy why can't the birds go outside ?


Well, I guess this is an option should I not be able to keep them indoors, but honestly, I don't think having two pigeons caged in my backyard is something I want to do. I don't know what other methods I would use to keep them outside, besides some sort of a cage. I can't imagine them having a very happy life with just my coming around in a mask and feeding them. Maybe I'm being selfish, but I would want to interact with them. I don't just want them there and not ever be able to be near them. The only way I could see keeping them in the first place was because I could provide them a nice home with plenty of interaction time. I know their freedom is limited in my home, but it's bigger than a cage and I thought that was alright.

Like I said to Brad earlier when we chatted, maybe this is all coincidence. I mean you are right Kimberly, lots of people sick right now and not unusual to get the flu, cold and other things. Maybe Sheba even has a cold, I don't know. I guess that's what was driving me crazy earlier today, just not having any answers and it looks like I'm not going to until Monday, so I just need to relax and not worry about it.

Originally, I got the flu or something like the flu about 5 weeks ago. It was like a typical flu to me, fever, no appetite, congestion, major fatigue, etc. After 4-5 days of this, the chest congestion and cough set in. After a week of coughing and not a dry cough, I first visited my doctor, because I did get bronchitis a few years ago after I had the flu. I got a breathing treatment, prescription cough syrup and Albuterol, an inhaler. I still continued to have a low grade fever but was feeling better, had my appetite back and was gaining my energy. But that cough continued and continued. One night I coughed so much I couldn't catch my breath, I really thought I was going to pass out and choke! I couldn't catch my breath back, so I ended up calling 911 and then said I needed to go to the hospital. In the ER, after examination, they told me I had walking pneumonia and gave me a script for antibiotics for 21 days. I've been taking these for almost two weeks now and really don't feel much different. The cough is still bad, though I have to admit I haven't had another choking episode, but my chest has a lot of congestion. Then, this past Tuesday I thought I got the stomach flu, ugh. I'm still going through that now and will not get into details, but I'm sure you can imagine. Then on Thursday, Sheba started coughing. It's not like a kennel cough, which sounds just horrific, but almost like her throat gets clogged or something. She doesn't have anything stuck in there, so I don't know what that is about. I figured the stomach flu should of been over with or at least a little better after 4 days, so that is why I decided to call my doctor this morning. Ok, so that's the whole story and where I am now, whew, lol!

Again, I'll be sure to give you all a full report when I get back from my doctor's office on Monday. Thank you again.


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

You say you had the flu 5 weeks ago. Your amune (sp) system is still weak so you are very vonerable to all sorts of illnesses. As for your dog I think you just transered it to her. If it's posible stay away (or minimul contact) from Mel and Misty for a day and see if the coughing stops. If it doesn't it's the flu and if it does, well....lets not think about it.
I'll pray for you, Mel and Misty.
God bless you all.

Hilary Dawn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Kimberley,

Thank you so much for explaining how you got ornithosis!!! It had worried me that you had managed to contract it because I knew that you would be careful about hygiene. Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation certainly explains that and serves to reassure us that it is not that easy to catch it!

Cynthia


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Hi, Cynthia and all,

Yes, I am a FANATIC when it comes to cleanliness with my patients! I order latex gloves in bulk, use surgical sanitizers constantly, and wear surgical scrubs when treating my patients. My background is in surgical and critical care, so I know how careful you really have to be. When we were operating on the pigeon, I was so upset that we were losing her. She was under masked anesthesia, had not been intubated, so the only way to get air in her lungs was mouth-to-mouth. It was a split decision, and I knew the minute that I had done it that it was a really stupid thing to do. However, patients come first, right? LOL My poor assistant, who is meek as a mouse and accustomed to me being soft-spoken and gentle, nearly had a heart attack when I turned to her post-mouth-to-mouth and said, "Don't you EVER let me catch you doing something as stupid as I just did!" I did wash out my mouth with chlorhexadine, toothpaste, Listerine, and hydrogen peroxide, but the damage was already done, of course.

I have a great doctor, who knows about all of the wildlife work that I do. Whenever he finds me waiting in the examination room, he asks me, "OK, what rare and bizarre disease have you brought me this time?" LOL I've been bitten by several rabid bats, etc., and caught measles and pneumonia on a trip to Russia. I like to keep him challenged at work.  

As for more information on zoonotic illnesses, a simple search on the internet will give you a lot of information. I wish I had time to do it for you, but I have to run.

Have a great day! No french-kissing sick pigeons!
Kimberly


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

It's late Sunday night now and I've sure missed being close to Mel and Misty these two days. Yesterday wasn't so bad, but today I really felt guilty as they both kept "hovering" in front of their glass door on their room, each time I passed by their door. I know they wanted to come out of their room and hang out elsewhere, as they usually do. 

It seems I haven't coughed as much since confining them to their room yesterday. I mean, I'm still coughing, just not having those bouts of coughing fits I was having. That makes me sad, but at the same time, it makes me feel it is 'allergy' related and not something more serious. I'm hoping maybe there is something my doc will be able to give me to be able to counteract this coughing, but I'm not sure.

Ok, I'm off to bed, will come back tomorrow and post what my doc says, hopefully after some real tests are done and I really know what's going on here.

Hope everyone had a good weekend,
Izzy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Izzy,
You might want to suggest allergy testing when you go see the doc. 
I hope all goes well tomorrow.  

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Izzy,

If it is an allergy then one of the links that I posted on your zoonosis thread should help as it is based on specifi medical research for people who have an allergy but still want to keep pigeons.

An outside aviary might be a compromise. I have one becvause I think that access to fresh air and sunshine is healthier for the pigeons. When I have pigeons indoors the dust makes me cough a lot (I don't have a filter and sleep in the room that they fly in during the day,)

Cynthia


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

Izzy, 
I am so sorry you are not feeling well. I wish you to get well soon, and I also hope that your doctor is wrong when he sais that your illness is caused by your birds. He jumped a little too quickly to conclusions without testing you. I would not be surprised if he turns out to be the type that does not care much for pigeons. In any case. I was writing to tell you that I too would be willing to take your birds if it comes to that. Mel and Misty came to you at about the time S-spin came to me, but unfortunately my S-spin did not make it, so I always read every word you posted about Mel and Misty thinking about my birdie. 
Good luck tomorrow when you go to the doctor. Don't let him speculate, push for evidence.
Take care, 
Violeta


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What an angel you are, Violeta! 

Cynthia


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## Jerry (Nov 21, 2003)

Izzy,
I can't tell you how saddened and concerned I am about your illness and your present situation concerning your two young charges. I'm certainly no physician but I feel your condition is allergy based. For Mel and Misty to have carried anything bad would mean they would have been born with it. They have not had contact with the "outside world". Young birds have a very difficult time surviving disease that has been passed to them through the egg or directly from their parents. Add to that the additional handicap of having to be hand fed from day one and I can't help but feel your birds are perfectly healthy. However, allergies are something else, but can quite often be helped by meds (I don't have to tell you). Sheba's situation is puzzling and only tends to exacerbate the potential possibilites. However, at her advanced age, it could be that she has also developed allergies to the little guys. Izzy, I know it is unpleasant to think about the possibility of having to be separated from Mel and Misty. However, if that does become an eventuality I, too, would be happy to give them a home in Indiana. I am about 4.5 hrs. from you and can come pick them up if neccessary. I have one small loft that would be a perfect home for them alone. It is located in a line with my other lofts and they would have the adjacent company of my 100+ other pij's and, hopefully, they could eventually be allowed more freedom to fly. I don't keep any birds inside as I also have the bronchitis/pneumonia subcesibility (last year at this time), but I do love my birds and 4.5 hours is not too far to come for a visit if you wished. I know you have several generous offers from others. I just wanted to add mine to the plate for consideration. (Southern California also sounds enticing. I can see Mel and Misty in sunglasses! LOL) But, hopefully, this will not have to come to fruitition. Good luck with the doctor!


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Good Morning everyone and wanted to say a special thank you to Violeta and Jerry for their wonderful posts, it really started my day off with a smile. 

I don't see my doc until 1pm today, but was up early for a change. I couldn't stand it any longer and went in to visit Mel and Misty. Hey, if I'm already sick, I figured being around them for a few wouldn't make me sicker, right? lol! Anyhow, what a greeting I received! The second I opened their door both Mel and Misty flew to my shoulders immediately! Normally, they look at me for a few minutes when I first come into their room and see if brought food, then land on me, so coming to me when I didn't even have any food was super special for me.  I swear, they have actually missed me these two days! Ok, maybe I'm being overly dramatic, but I really think they have, lol!

I sat with them for just a few minutes and talked with them, I couldn't get them to get off my shoulders. They would hover a bit and come back. Then I finally got them off and was leaving the room and again, they kept close to me. I figured I might as well let them out since I'm going to the doctor's today anyhow and they are sitting right here on my desk and monitor as I type this. I think absence does make the heart grow fonder, even for pij's, lol!

Again, thank you Jerry and Violeta for touching my heart so, had Mel and Misty not come into my life, I never would of met such wonderful people as you and others whom I've talked with here on this board.

Izzy


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Izzy,

None of our business, really, but I'm sure we'll all be curious to hear what the Doc says. Good luck.


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

If you are allergic to them, maybe you can get a air cleaner that wouldn't harm Misty and Mel. Air Cleaners clean the room from dust. There is something on the market that helps pigeons cut down on the dander. I think it is a vitamin suppliment with oil. I am not sure. Someone will know what I am talking about. 

The air cleaner is used for people who have bad allergies towards dust and anything that carries dust. This might help you out a bit. Pigeons do have a lot of dander (dust) but I do believe there are ways to get by this and you will be able to keep Misty and Mel.


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Izzy
I am no doctor either, but I did have big problems with asthma 2 years ago. Of course my doctor suggested to get rid of my ringneck doves and my quails right away. I had about 10 birds in the house at that time. 
It was a very hot and humid summer, I just visited a big botanical garden with a lot of pollen in the air. I had more birds than usual and I had have more baby doves than ever in this year. I was feeling a bit depressive and anxious too..., anyway all that to say that I think a MIX of several things altogether brought a very big asthma attack that lasted for an entire day. I had medication, rest, I bought an air filter, and lost my quails since then (they live only about 3 years). I still have asthma and I am still afraid another big attack arrives, but I don't think my birds was the problem like the poeple told me all the time. I still have 6 doves and they are the biggest source of happiness for me. I just want to tell you that I am hoping you can get better and keep you beloved pigeons. They are easy to blame by doctors who don't like them for problems that can be more complex than we think sometimes... Good luck with your doctor.
Suz.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Izzy,

I too am sending lots of good vibes your way for your doctor's appointment today. I really hope a definitive diagnosis can be reached and that treatment will give you the relief that you need.

I've been fortunate in that I don't seem to have any problems caused by close association with birds or animals.

My friend, Bart, became very, very ill a year or so ago .. pneumonia like symptoms .. it turned out that he had gotten psittacosis from some doves he had at the time. Many of the doves died from it, but Bart was successfully treated with a lengthy course of antibiotics (Cipro).

Terry


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Get another Dr. first of all !*



Izzy said:


> I'm absolutely devastated right now. Most of you know I haven't been well lately and yesterday, after having a few extra rough days of major coughing, along with chest pain and other gross things I called my doctor back. I hadn't told him previous about my having Mel and Misty, but decided I should mention it. I spoke with his nurse and she told me she would talk to my doctor and return my call. It wasn't even 5 minutes when he called me back and told me to get rid of Mel and Misty immediately!
> 
> I told him that they had no other place to live, but I would do my best to find a home but how did he know that they were "for sure" what was making me sick. Maybe I should come in for tests or something? He told me to place them outside immediately or just let them go and seal off their room and do not enter it again for at least 10 days. Then he said I should come back to his office Monday morning.
> 
> ...


 If you really have too, I am sure, they would adapt to outside living. I just can't believe a Dr. would blame two innocent birds before running tests ! Good Luck.


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## pigeon george (Aug 7, 2003)

*have to add two cents*

like most have said your doctor MUST inform you of what is the problem with you and your friends, first. i know many of you keep but a few birds so dander shouldnt be a problem however if it is, a pen that is sealed from the house but has outside ventilation should work i knew a quite elderly man whose lungs could no longer take the dust from his 150 or so birds when the doc told him he had to get rid of them he simply wore a two filter dust mask not the ceap ones and he was fine although he told me the birds would giggel at him till they got used to it. where there's a will there's a way


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

*I'm back!!*

I'm finally back home and here is what happened today. I'll start with Sheba's vet visit. Looks like she may have bronchitis, I didn't even know dogs could get that, doh. She coughed at the vet's office and he put her on a cortisteroid called Flovent. They did take some blood to do some tests though, in case she doesn't improve. The vet said unless I had ALOT of pigeons with LOADS of pigeon poop around that Sheba was sniffing on constantly, it's very unlikely she's gotten anything from Mel or Misty. She also doesn't have a fever or runny nose, just this dry cough. I'll keep you updated on her condition, but am relieved right now.

Ok, now me! It's understandable to me now why my doc was kinda freaking about my getting rid of Mel and Misty this past Saturday on the phone. I don't know if his nurse embellished my story or if he just heard her wrong, but he was under the assumption that I had quite a few pigeons and several had died on me. I know I told his nurse I had TWO pigeons, 2 months old and I had been hand raising them since they hatched. Anyhow, I got the story straight to my doc and we went from there. He did ask about Mel and Misty, if they were coughing or seemed ill and I told him they seemed very healthy to me.

First he said that I had a low grade fever, it was 101.6, I was surprised because I didn't "feel" like I had a fever. I mean, I had a fever a few weeks ago, around 104 and boy, you can tell you have a fever then. He said that if I were just allergic to the pigeons I wouldn't have a fever, so something else was going on. He listened to my lungs, checked my nose, ears, etc., said I had congestion in sinuses, then had me blow on this plastic thingie that measured how strong my breath is. He asked if I had any pain and I told him about the small sore I had in my armpit. He's familiar with my lymph node problem as I have SLE Lupus and this is an ongoing problem for me. Anyhow, he looked at it and told me it was really infected. I had been taking Amoxocillin for the walking pneumonia for almost two weeks now, so he was surprised I still had an infection. I then went to the lab to get blood drawn and he said he was going to do a little research on psittacosis, as he was familiar with this ailment, but has never actually treated anyone for it.

When I returned from the lab, he told me that he couldn't rule out psittacosis, but the blood test would tell him positively if I have that or not. He said it was a special test and it might take up to 3 days to get the results back. He said that it was possible for me to have this and Mel and Misty not be sick, though that was uncommon, but he couldn't rule it out because he read that they can carry and spread but not always be ill themselves. So, he put me on Doxycycline, 100mg, twice a day. He said this should take care of my current infection AND also psittacosis, if the test came back positive. He also gave me another script for Albuterol, the inhaler I've been using for a week now.

He told me if I don't feel MUCH better in 3-4 days that I need to call him back. He also told me to keep checking my temperature, as I was unaware I even had a fever today.

So, I guess I'm still not sure what is going to happen at this point. But looks like I'll know more during this week. I'm praying I can keep Mel and Misty and want to try to get an air purifier for their room, as I think that would just be a good thing all around anyhow, but I can't really afford it right now and besides, I'm still not sure what is going on, so I'll deal with that decision when I get to it.

Thanks for all of your feedback/advice, it's very much appreciated and I'll let you all know how I'm feeling this week and what my test results are.

Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Izzy, 

You have a lot going on with you for sure I'm glad you've gotten to the doctor and at least some things have been figured out. I think that Sheba might have gotten the bronchitis from you since it can be bacterial as well as viral. Glad she's on something now. As for you, you're in a worse predicament and I hope that your doctor can get things under control for you. I still don't buy that Mel and Misty are asymptomatic carriers of ornithosis however. Adult birds can be carriers of the disease with no symptoms and act completely normal, but in this case it would seem so unlikely that they could have lived to their present age with the disease. And if they weren't born with it, then where the heck would they have gotten in, living indoors with no other birds around? I hope you start to feel better soon with treatment. Keep us posted on your conditions.


Feel better soon,

Brad


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

Well, I guess I am going to have to make a post here as well. I am speaking from the medical field, as I am a nurse and work with MD's everyday of my life. Sheesh. Just to begin, if I am understanding you said you had pneumonia? This alone takes weeks to heal for some. It is not uncommon to feel run down, sleep a lot, cough, have junky lungs, need breathing treatments and have evidence of pneumonia on status post x-rays following pneumonia for quite some time. Next. Pneumonia can lead to other disorders that can cause an intolerance to light. I think without one singe doubt, I would get more facts. I have been a nurse for a bazillion years and I cannot tell you the number of cases of pneumonia I have seen that left lingering symptoms for several months. Then on the topic of MD's. So many really are not people persons. They decide something and it is not open to discussion. They dont like to be challenged on their decision. Without doing any type of tests to see if you truly have something that could have been transmitted from the birds, then you do have the right to ask questions and demand more tests. He is asking you to get rid of something that is important to you. You need to have more tests done and ask question and not do anything until you have facts and answers. I can tell you this. I have never once in all my 15 years of nursing seen a single person have a disease from a bird. Yes, it is possible I guess, but it is so very very very rare. Please get all the facts before you act.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

HI Izzy,

Okay, I forgive your doctor! With the Lupus making you more vulnerable to infection and the misinformation from the nurse it is no wonder he reacted as he did. 

I hope that you get the results back soon and that it shows the pigeons to be healthy and no threat to you!

According to my brief research the symptoms that you describe can be symptoms of a Lupus flare?

Take care of yourself,

Cynthia


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi all, I'd like to address the last 3 posts individually.

Thank you Brad! I'm hanging in there and I'm feeling like you are, as far as Mel and Misty not being carriers of anything, other than a bunch of feathers.  I'm just glad I got the test done to prove it! Just like you mentioned the other evening, there has been just so many coincidences going on lately, but I'm glad to be getting answers without going off the deep end, lol.

Thank you for your post Zoo Keeper. I was told I have walking pneumonia, probably very similiar to pneumonia only you don't "feel" as sick, whatever that means, lol! I'm starting to feel badly that I even "thought" Mel and Misty could of made me ill. I mean, when I visited my doctor and the ER the past several weeks, it never occurred to me to mention I even had two pigeons, because I honestly never believed I could of gotten ill from them. I think because I've never had a cold/flu/bronchitis last so long, I began to wonder why. It didn't help that I had friends who came by and had to put in their 2 cents, saying they couldn't believe how long I've been ill and maybe it was the pigeons. I also read that symptoms of psittacosis are 'flu like symptoms' that can eventually lead to pneumonia. So, I knew I had these symptoms, just started to wonder if it maybe was possible that it could of been from Mel and Misty. Like you mentioned, I'm definitely getting all my facts before I act. That's why I first came to this board, to try to get some answers and not just do what my doctor initially first suggested. Please also understand, I'm very new to having pigeons and each day with them this past two months has been a huge learning experience for me. I do care for Mel and Misty greatly and would never just let them go without very good cause. 

Hi Cynthia and thanks for forgiving my doc, lol! Yes, I do experience flare ups and have for years. Though I have no particular pattern, 2 a year is usually the norm for me. Sometimes the flares can last as little as a week or as long as several months. I've learned that being stressed out is not a good thing and usually contributes to my having one. One sign that I get when I know I'm having a flare up is problem with my lymph nodes, usually armpits and groin area. They get very swollen, sore and sometimes infected. I'm also usually quite fatigued, with painful joints, but in the past, I've never had any symptoms like a cold or flu, with congestion and/or coughing and fever. Knowing that lupus affects my major organs, I wondered if I possibly had gotten an infection in my lungs, but that was ruled out when I first went to see my doctor. One thing that I was unaware of is that having sensitivity to light can occur during a flare up, I've never had this happen in the past, so when I read that psittacosis had that as a symptom, that sort of scared me. 

Thanks for your posts and taking the time to give me your opinion and your support, I'm glad to be able to have this board for not only questions I have regarding Mel and Misty, but now for questions I have for myself. 

Izzy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Izzy, what are you doing out of bed at this time? It is 8 am here, which means all you US members should be tucked up and resting!


It is perfectly natural to suspect that any illness or symptoms that develop after the arrival of a pigeon is pigeon related. This is the level of fear that the constant anti pigeon propaganda from pest controllers and City Councils has instilled in pigeon lovers , who are at least prepared to seek out the truth. Is it any wonder that those that have no inclination to ask questions hate and fear pigeons? 


Now rest and recuperate!!

Cynthia


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

Izzy,

I will be praying for you. You were on my prayerlist as of Saturday. I pray that everything will work out well for you. Please try to hold on to Misty and Mel. They think you of you as their mother. They relate to you as a mother. When you went to see them in their room, they showed you how much they love and care for you. 

They are two months old now? That means that soon they will maybe start molting around when they are 3 months old and will begin to grow their adult feathers, which will be their adult coloring. 

Sweetie is now almost 4 months old now. She has been molting since she was 3 months old. Her new feathers are shinier and the
feathers that are growing on her crop and chest area are beginning to show some color in them now. They are going to be a deep irredecent purple now instead of a blackish color now.

I now you will be excited when you see this happening. I certainly was. When Sweetie gets her adult coloring in she will be gorgious.

Try to have a nice Thanksgiving

Victoria Lutes & Sweetie


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hiya Cynthia and I had been in bed for a few hours before getting back up, heh. Actually, I woke up extremely nauseous and was trying to eat a few crackers. I ate crackers in bed once and oy, it took forever getting that last stupid crumb outta there, lol! So, I decided to visit the board, but I want to thank you for your concern, it's very sweet. 

You are exactly right about all the bad media that pigeons get. I'm just glad I had a place I knew I could come to and get straight answers. I feel guilty that I even started to 'suspect' that I could of possibly got something from Mel and Misty, as I never felt I would one of those persons who would fall victim to this way of thinking. I guess it shows me that with enough coincidences that your mind can really get you starting to believe something. <sigh>

Hi Victoria and sweetie and thank you for your wonderful post, it really warmed me.  I hope to be able to experience many, many more things with Mel and Misty in the future. We also hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

Izzy


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