# My Pigeons and I Are in Trouble...



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I was feeding them in the parking lot and my neighbour yelled at me.

I'm very sad but it looks like I have to move the birds out of my balcony and seal it off. I spoke to a wildlife group who take care of birds, but they won't help me move the flock. They said they will take care of any injured birds, or any babies. I do currently have at least two fledglings walking about, and two just-laid eggs.

So far I have only been able to find two options - an exterminator (will be non-lethal, since the wild bird care group said nesting pigeons are protected and can't be killed). I asked how they move the birds, and the exterminator secretary said they usually net them. I don't like the sound of it. Maybe I just associate exterminators with death of animals, and I like the pigeons. I want to minimize the anxiety this causes them as much as possible.

The other option is to get my landlord to remove them, but he's useless and wouldn't keep the birds' safety in mind, especially not the eggs. I could stick around and supervise him I guess, but I'm nervous even about that. I'm afraid if I put this off too long, the complaints of the other neighbours are going to draw him out here anyway.

I've searched online for a local organization that would keep the safety of the pigeons in mind, and have looked through the forum (I thought I remembered seeing threads with advise on moving pigeons, but I can't find it now). I'm not coming up with much, just 'pest control' people. There has to be some other solution. Can anyone advise me or point me to a thread with information on how to humanely move the birds? If I go with an exterminator (ugh!) what methods should I ask about? Is netting the best way? Is there any other? 

I'm so distressed by this, I feel like it's my fault by feeding them and encouraging them to use my balcony as a safe haven. I tried to keep it clean, but I never knew there would be mites on them.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Fever,

I can't understand why your neighbour yelling at you leads straight to your decision to exterminate the pigeons on your balcony.

When exterminators net them they kill them, there is no humane removal of pigeons at that level.

If the eggs have just been layed then please remove them and replace them with plastic ones or boiled ones. Then wait until the fledgelings are able to fend for themselves. Then pigeon proof your balcony. Once you have pigeon proofed the balcony they will not be able to access it...killing them either by asking your landlord or a pest controller to remove them is not the solution, other pigeons will take their place.

And stop feeding them.



Cynthia


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I'm sorry, I guess I should have included more information on why they need to go. Both me and my downstairs neighbours have had our apartments taken over by bird mites. He yells at me about the #$% birds every time he sees me, and said that if I don't go to the landlord, he will. I can't keep them anymore. I have to move them, but I'm not taking any option that will hurt them. I don't like having to do this, but when it gets to the point where I'm getting mites in my apartment, on my cats, furniture, carpet, doves... I just can't live with it. Luckily (kinda) the bugs like me more than my boyfriend, or he'd be raving as crazy as that downstairs jerk.

I don't know what else I can do. I guess I could chase them out myself, and just cover the balcony with chicken wire. Don't know what else to do here...


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

From my thinking, if you call the landlord, he will probably call an exterminator and that won't be good.
I think you should evict the Pigeons yourself and put up screening or shades to keep them out. Until you decide for sure, do remove the eggs and replace or boil and give back. You don't need any more babies on you balcony.


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

No, the landlord won't call an exterminator. He's cheap. He won't let me call on over the mites, even. He told me to 'catch one' and he'd have one of his goons look at it. So unless the goon has a microscope and a degree in entomology, nothing is even going to be done about that. I had to buy all my Borax, diatomaceous earth, bleach, mothballs, etc etc etc on my own, and tomorrow I have to shell out sixty dollars to the vet for her to tell me what I already know - that my doves have the mites - so I can get the spray. Then I need to bring in a cat...

I will be saving receipts. Oh, yes. I am not pleased.

I'm stressed that I need to evict the pigeons, but I think I will do it myself. That way, at least I know that they aren't going to be harmed. I wonder where they'll go. It's going to be so lonely and quiet out there. And when I just need to sit and lose myself in my thoughts, I won't be able to watch them out the window and listen to their songs. I'm really going to miss them.  

It's going to be a while before I can do this anyway, because (I'm assuming) my landlord is not going to just give me the mesh, staple gun, and ladder I need to birdproof the balcony. I'll have to round this up myself and learn carpentry at heights somehow.

It would be so much easier to just leave them. Maybe I can tame them all and spray them for mites. Then everyone would be happy.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Fever, you don't need to go to the vet to get mite spray. You can get a poultry dust from a garden store or a spray from a pet shop.
Perhaps you could catch the balcony pigeons at night and dust or spray them. After you spray each one , put it in a cat kennel until all have been treated. It's worth a try.
Don't forget to replace those eggs.


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh, Fever, I'm so sorry. Just because one person yelled at you?!
I think that your choice to slowly evict the pigeons is the best possible route. I'm sure they are missing the munchies already. I'm not sure I could do it. Perhaps you could get a few have a hearts and trap some and then release the flock someplace more pigeon friendly (the country, with rocks, water, and real food) or maybe just a little more pigeon-friendly part of town.
Sigh.


----------



## Guest (Aug 7, 2007)

Why are the birds being blamed for mites in the apartments? Feather mites stay where they are, in the feathers. There are different kinds of mites and the ones that are in the apartments are probably not related to the pigeons at all. The feather mites are very small and it's surprising that you and your neighbor can see them at all. If the color of the mites is red, they aren't coming from the birds.


----------



## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

pigeonperson said:


> Why are the birds being blamed for mites in the apartments? Feather mites stay where they are, in the feathers. There are different kinds of mites and the ones that are in the apartments are probably not related to the pigeons at all. The feather mites are very small and it's surprising that you and your neighbor can see them at all. If the color of the mites is red, they aren't coming from the birds.



I wondered the same thing.How many cats have you got?It could be them bringing in the creepie crawly`s to invade your rooms.As your neighbour any pets?If he as, they could be causing the problem!


----------



## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

Fever, I feel for you. You have it hard right now. I can't think about anything to tell you. Are they tamed? Will they allow you to catch them? If so, maybe you can give them away to someone else in your area willing to take in some e ferals. I knows they are not that hard to tame or adjust to their new homes. Sux they would blame the mites on those poor birds. I know it is refreshing to just feed them and watch them eat. I sometimes loose track of time just watching mines. Good luck Fever.


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I'll try to reply to everything here, sorry if this runs a little long:

The mites? They're very small. I can't see most of them, but every now and then I see a black one, about the size of the period at the end of the sentence. More, often, I just feel the crawling and see the tiny pinprick bites. On my white dove, I did see one. I had her in to the vet today, and the vet believes she found mite eggs, but wasn't able to confirm the type. It looked the same as what I find (yuck!) on me sometimes.

The landlord was supposed to show up today to work out a solution with me, but he didn't. I don't know if it's because he's slack, or if the downstairs jerks didn't call. A home should not cause me so much stress, but moving isn't really an option...

Bird mites don't leave the bird? I have read about them going in search of new food when baby birds leave the nest, and wandering into houses through cracks. Again, what I've read, but I'm becoming more and more open to the fact that the websites I've looked at are 100% pure fearmongering. Even the ones that aren't openly associated with birdmites. My house is very much full of cracks. I have been trying to solve this with caulking, and have noticed a decrease (I've been dousing the furniture and carpets with Borax, floor is getting bleached.

I have diatomaceous earth in my arsenal. Is it ok to put it in plants? Outside with the pigeons near the door (worried about them inhaling it). My vet did not give me the spray, she prescribed a strange beaker of stuff that I need to drop on the wing vein of my birds, once every ten days, four times. Don't know how that works.

I can't catch the pigeons, they're very much feral. There are some adorable babies just under two weeks old (I believe, they are walking around and have left the nest) and sometimes I contemplate spending time with them and getting to know them. But now with my door sealed off, I can only go through the window, and there is a mom with eggs.

Don't think the bugs came off the cats, but I can't say for 100% they didn't pick 'em up somewhere. They are indoor cats, since I'm on an upper floor apartment. They go on the non-pigeon balcony quite a bit, so no birds land there.

I think there are three likely points of entry for the bugs, if they are bird mites (I really need to find someone who can verify it):

1. Me. I went out there trying to clean and probably wasn't as careful detoxing as I should have been. There's no ground access to the balcony, so I had to go back in to my house after working on it.

2. Door. The door did not fit perfectly into the frame, there were small cracks that most bugs shouldn't be able to fit through. 

3. Window. If these things come from nests... well... look: 










That's about as close to the window as you can possibly get.


All of these solutions are easy enough to remedy with common sense and caulking. 

I fail to see how the neighbours got them if they are birdmites. It's either not birdmites, very clever, possibly numerous birdmites, or the neighbours are whiners, possibly with another (or multiple other) bug problems.

I don't know what to do about this. If the landlord doesn't show up, maybe I'll just fortify my window and door and cross my fingers that no one else kicks up a fuss...


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

(PS - Neighbours have three cats. Some random person just gave them a new kitten about two weeks ago, when this problem started. Hmm.)


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I'd say "mmmm" too with the new kitty. My cat, who never has fleas, well, she gifted us with fleas last year. 

Diatomaceous earth will not harm plants, it will kill insects that ingest it. Short and sweet -- diatoms build little glass houses with lots of sharpies. They die and settle to the bottom of the pond, lake, wherever they live. Over time, the diatoms decay leaving their little cell walls behind. We mine the layers of diatom leavings. Sprinkle it around the areas where you want no bugs and pretty soon, there won't be many. I'd also sprinkle it in the nests and such. I'm not sure it works on blood sucking varmints but it works on cockroaches.


----------



## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

You say your neighbour has two cats and a new kitten and that you have two cats. So that is five in all!!!!

I suspect that you may have cat fleas.

A friend who lived below someone who had three cats in an upstairs apartment, found to her horror that the fleas were coming through the ventilation bricks between the apartments.

The only way to get rid of the fleas is to do both of the apartments with an insecticide. If your neighbour will not co-operate you will never get rid of them. You would need to remove your indoor birds so not to harm them..You als o need to treat your cats which are probably the principle hosts.

Cat fleas mainly attack humans and can breed indoors, whereas bird fleas can only live for a short time indoors, and they can only breed in birds nests. 

There is a bug called a pigeon bug, which is a subspecies of the common bed bug. It is not very common but an insecticide would solve the problem.
However you say the 'mites' are black, but pigeon bugs are a red-brown colour.

Another mite is the red poultry mite which is very red in colour and their bite cause itching. If the mites are found indoors they have usually come from a birds nest.

There is also the pigeon Tick but this is much larger and has a leathery, oval brown body. They are much larger than this dot.

Whatever is causing your problem, there is no doubt that you will need to treat your place with an insecticide, then treat the cat with a vet prescribed product, and wash and vacumm everything.

I wish you luck as I know someone who had a similar problem years ago.You need to be very thorough to be successful. 

Dont forget to remove your indoor birds to another place when you do your apartment.

Hope you get rid of your unwanted visitors before you get rid of the pigeons.

Best wishes 

Jayne


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

Thanks Jayne, that was helpful. There are actually, between my complaining downstairs neighbours and myself, six cats. Three each. My other downstairs neighbour has a dog. I also have three doves (my vet is French, and she keeps asking me about _mes colombes_. I love it.) 

I got the cats a coconut-scented pesticide shampoo (I love how they smell, I'd use it every day if I could) by Sergeants, which seems like a well-respected brand. If they are cat bugs, that should do it. They also wear bug necklaces as well now.

The chair by the pigeons coop door and window seems to be recovering. I have it just about entirely coated with diatomaceous earth. Everything in that area is sealed up with caulking now, so I can no longer go out and take pigeon pictures, but if it eliminates the bugs, it's for the best.

These things are definately not flea, way too small. I can't see most of them. Only once, I saw one that had almost no colour. They aren't poultry mite, because I've never seen a red one.

All my laundry is going in garbage bags with mothballs. Gross, but it might help.

Now, to finish off sealing up all the other cracks I can find, in case this is coming from the neighbour.

The doves just made everything about 3000% difficult for me to medicate them by laying eggs and getting all uppity. I'm kind of scared of them now, whenever I go near, they strike out their wings and feathers and try to look dove-scary. I need my boyfriend to hold them while I find the vein and put the drop on, but he won't touch them. 

PS, my pigeons would like to sincerely thank everyone for getting me to try out some other options first, before evicting them, and would like to thank the pigeon deities for making my landlord forget about us.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Fever,
Don't be afraid of the Doves. They are just being protective of their eggs. 
I hope you will take the eggs and replace with fake ones or boil the ones they've laid and give back to them. Otherwise you could soon have too many Doves.
Have you heard of a product called advantage? There are several other brands as well.
It would be a good one to use on your sweet smelling cats. It is a monthly topical treatment that should keep them pest free. It is more effective than collars, in my opinion. Similar to what you are putting on the Doves.
I'm glad things are improving on the balcony. I know it has been hard on you.


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I just wasn't expecting them to lay eggs so soon! I haven't had them a week, and I don't know their personalities yet. I'll try to coax them out of the cage, I don't think they are incubating the eggs yet. They aren't sitting on them, anyway.

Gotta wait till my budget recovers before I can take the cats in to the vet. Vets must be a booming business here, because I can't get anything over-the-counter. Mite spray for bird, shampoo for cat, even de-worm pills. However, I think this will be an important step in preventing the spread of bugs to my laundry.










And the pigeons here are shouldering so much of the blame.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Adding my two cents...

IF you have a vacuum with a bag (and most do), don't forget to SPRAY INSIDE the vacuum cleaner bag BEFORE vacuuming. Any bugs caught, hopefully, will die and not make their way out to live and continue breeding.

Small black dots sure sounds like fleas to me too! AND, unless you break the flea cycle, you could continue to have the little buggers! Have you rubbed your cat's fur the wrong way to look for flea dirt(poop) or the actual fleas themselves?? Fleas on cats also like the head areas.

Hope this helps...

BEST OF EVERYTHING and keep vigilent!

Shi


----------



## Fever (May 28, 2007)

Unfortunately, two of my cats are black and the third is impossible to hold still. These aren't fleas - way, way too small (the vet had to look at them under microscope), and when you can see them, they move slowly, never jump, and can be squished.

I have a vacuum, but it's so old. I have the hose held together with duct tape, and I wonder if using it's spreading the bugs around more than helping get rid of them. I only have one carpet, two chairs and two cushions to vacuum, everything else is hardwood. I have bleach for the floor. Anyone else notice that bleach is cheaper than water? I wonder why.

I'm not seeing these things around much anymore. I'm trying to catch another sample, but I won't be upset if I can't because they make scarce.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Fever, Check the pet store for a flea comb.
You could comb the cats to find out what kind of creepy crawlers they have on them. I always have a plastic bag handy for what ever I comb off the cat..
Zip lock work the best for me.


----------

