# Need help urgent, pigeon eyes watery and white pus



## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Posted in this pre-existing thread, please follow there. Thanks. Sorry but its urgent

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/introducing-luffy-zoro-amp-nami-51631-3.html#post563378


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy, I think this is an infection and not something from a fight, as both eye are affected. You will need some antibiotics to treat this, see if you can get some Ciprofloxacin or Trimethoprim/Sulfa (aka Bactrim, Septra, Cotrimoxazole). Let me know what you come up with and I will help you will dosing. Also this little gut with need support in feeding and drinking:

Here is how to do both (you can feed small pieces of bread for right now):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Drinking:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522565&postcount=11

Running out, will be back in a while, good luck,

Karyn


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Luffy, do you have an eye dropper or small syringe? 
Before you feed the guy see if you can get some fluids in him. Water with sugar or better honey, you can add also some salt in it, just a little bit. If he is not drinking, try to give him with an eye dropper. Keep him very warm, on a heating pad or warm water bottle.
As Dobato mentioned you need to get antibiotics asap. Ask around if anyone has Cipro or Bactrim and/or Flagyl. Those are used for people too, so maybe someone can give you one pill, that's all you need for now.

Reti


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Okay, Got some water heated it a little to get it to room temperature. Added honey, sugar, salt & garlic (couldn't resist heard its medicinal properties a lot). tried giving the bird by dipping its beak. it won't drink. I will try to get one dropper.

As far as medicines go, don't have any of those. Will have to run to medicine shop. Don't think anything close by would be open. Its almost 12 in the night.


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok water given, gave some grains. 4-5 grains each of barley, wheat, rice, corn & peas. Can't get hold of medicines, do you think that this may be serious should I got out to look for some 24x7 medicine shops?

Also, I noticed his beak top part just above the nostrils is too soft, like its filled with that pus thing. Which keeps coming out from his beak making it slippery and soft. It is like a human being having the conjunctivitis ( eye flu) mixed with common cold.


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Can I wash his eyes, with something? or plain water and some cotton?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy said:


> Can I wash his eyes, with something? or plain water and some cotton?


You can wash/rinse his eyes with warm saline (1 heaped teaspoon of salt to 1 liter of water). While serious, I think if you can't get a hold of the meds tonight. we should be OK until tomorrow, but do try and locate some.

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Let me know the about the dosage, I will go get meds. I have noticed on the forum that the dosage is determined by the weight of the bird. I dont think I will be able to get him weighed.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy said:


> Let me know the about the dosage, I will go get meds. I have noticed on the forum that the dosage is determined by the weight of the bird. I dont think I will be able to get him weighed.


The dosage will depend on the type of antibiotic you get, and what strength it is (this is important, that we know the strength), you will also need a 1cc syringe, the kind without a needle attached, to give the medicine.

Also, if you could manage to pick up some antibiotic ophthalmic eye ointment/or drops, these would help a lot as well, here is a link below of an example of the kind to get for the eye, but whatever you get, it must be made specifically to put in and around the eyes (the antibiotic used in the eye ointment/or drops can be Tetracycline, Ciprofloxacin or Gentamicin):

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Terramycin-prod10190.html

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok went to the shop and bought these ->

Co-trimoxazole Oral Suspension IP (Septran) Paediatric Suspension 50 ml. 
Each 5 ml contains 40mg Trimethoprim IP & Sulphamethoxazole IP 200mg

and

the other one was for Ciproflaxocin, however the vendor cut the tablet strip in a way that I can't read its contents, but only its weight which is 500mg. 

Hope this information is appropriate to define dosage.

Condition of bird:- Veer looks okay. He is alert enough. Earlier it was lying down, however now he stands. I have been cleaning the eyes and nose as soon as I see something. I could only sleep for four hours, so its been quite cleanup activity. Bird is not much scared of me so its easier to handle. When he starts running I wrap him in a cloth to stabilize. Eyes are still watery & if I don't clean it up regularly white pus (dunno what to call it, some kind of cloudy white thing ) gathers up.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy, you did good. We will use the Co-trimoxazole Oral Suspension to start. I want you to give this little gut 0.30cc of the suspension twice a day (every 12 hours), this will be 14.4mg of medicine and for a reference will be roughly 6 drops of the suspension. As I mentioned, it would be good to also be using A topical treatment (medicine on the outside) as well as oral medicine, so you think you will able to find the ointment or eye drops, again, be sure it is made for the eyes. There are ointments that contain the antibiotics I mentionED, not made for the eyes, if we use them they will be too strong and may hurt the eye, must be for eye use.

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi Karyn, 

Thanks for your response. While I was waiting, I thought a few drops wont hurt and gave Veer 3 drops of the suspension. I have not given tablets as I didn't know how to give that. Veer is resting now, I will wait for sometime until he is active again and start giving the dose you mentioned. How and when will we give the other tablets(cipro...)? The medical shop didn't have that ointment cream (terramycin). I will look somewhere else too. He isn't pecking grains. I hand fed him some. He drank water though. Also, how long do you think he may take to recover?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy, he will not need the Cipro right now, or most likely at all. When I told you the antibiotics that may work, I gave you a few names, just in case. Since you found two, this is alright, but we only needed one, or the other, to start treatment. It is good that you do have the Cipro on the chance that the bacteria that is causing the infection is not sensitive to the Co-trimoxazole, I expect this will not be an issue, but it is good to know you have a second choice on hand in case this happens (by the way, the Cipro would have to be ground up into a powder and made into a suspension like the Co-trimoxazole to be accurate in dosing).

If you gave the Co-trimoxazole within the last few hours, it will not be a problem giving him 3 more drops to make a proper dose, then going to the right dose at the next scheduled dose time. I would expect within a few days you should start to see some improvement, and this will be more rapid if we can get the ointment for external treatment as well, it could be an ointment, but if what you find is in the form of eye drops, this will be fine. Before you apply them please confirm with me what you have and what the strength the bottle/or tube says.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

I think there seems to be one another problem. I noticed this a while ago and thought it might be nothing, but I want to confirm. When I feel his crop at times its too cushiony, So I pressed it a little tighter. I could hear air getting out of his mouth. It is as if he has gas in his stomach or what I read somewhere air sac rupture. How could I be sure if there is a problem? 

Also, as I told earlier this one is young he is probably very young. When sometimes he gets scared or try to defend, rather than making the grunt he squeaks. I dont think it is less than 5 months old, how long do they squeak?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He might be developing a slow crop. Some infections and generally illnesses can do this. If it were a ruptured air sac you probably would see the swelling under the skin.
You can add a few drops of apple cider vinegar to his water, see if that helps.

Reti


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Luffy said:


> I think there seems to be one another problem. I noticed this a while ago and thought it might be nothing, but I want to confirm. When I feel his crop at times its too cushiony, So I pressed it a little tighter. I could hear air getting out of his mouth. It is as if he has gas in his stomach or what I read somewhere air sac rupture. How could I be sure if there is a problem?
> 
> Also, as I told earlier this one is young he is probably very young. When sometimes he gets scared or try to defend, rather than making the grunt he squeaks. I dont think it is less than 5 months old, how long do they squeak?


Luffy, if you press on the crop and some air comes out the mouth, it would not be a ruptured airsac, as the air from an airsac rupture is trapped under the skin and does not come out the mouth. Sometimes they can get a bit of air in their crops for a few reasons. Are you hand-feeding this little guy pieces of bread (about the size of a split pea) and making sure he is drinking? If not, you have to do this. Can you post up another photo of his fresh droppings? They sometimes can have a few things wrong at the same time, could be developing a slow crop (sour), as Reti mentions, could even possibly have a canker issue as well.

These conditions are both quite treatable if this were the case, let's start with the photo's, feed/water him, get the ointment and keep an eye on his crop, if you feed him and the food is slow moving out of the crop this will give us a better idea of things as well.

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Luffy, if you press on the crop and some air comes out the mouth, it would not be a ruptured airsac, as the air from an airsac rupture is trapped under the skin and does not come out the mouth. Sometimes they can get a bit of air in their crops for a few reasons. Are you hand-feeding this little guy pieces of bread (about the size of a split pea) and making sure he is drinking? If not, you have to do this. Can you post up another photo of his fresh droppings? They sometimes can have a few things wrong at the same time, could be developing a slow crop (sour), as Reti mentions, could even possibly have a canker issue as well.
> 
> These conditions are both quite treatable if this were the case, let's start with the photo's, feed/water him, get the ointment and keep an eye on his crop, if you feed him and the food is slow moving out of the crop this will give us a better idea of things as well.
> 
> Karyn


yeah that makes sense, it would be horrible if there was a connection between airsac and crop. with all the food going in airsac. Thanks for clarifying.

Feed: Do you want me to feed him bread only? I have been feeding him grains ( wheat, rice, lentils & unprocessed pop corn) as I have that for my pet zoro and sometimes give it to feral birds. I am not feeding him too much at a single go, but feed him few grains (10-15 grains of rice, barley) every time I clean his eyes and nostrils (that is every 3-4 hours). Therefore, don't know how exactly are the things on crop emptying. May be I am doing this wrong, that is feeding him without the crop getting empty, but I am doing it as I read the metabolism goes up during illness and they need more energy.

Water: I have been giving the same rehydration solution, which I started when I got the birds about 20 hours back. Water mixed with salt, sugar, honey and garlic. I don't know if ACV is available in India AND OR it is called by some other name.

Droppings: Sorry I cleaned up the nest few minutes back, so no pics for droppings. But I kinda noticed that the solid part is light green in color and the urethra (the part that is supposed to be white) is a bit yellowish green.

Eye condition: Couldn't find terramycin anywhere. Veeru's one eye has been looking good (it was even before I started the sulpha dosage) However the other eye which he usually keeps closed, the eyelids stick together. I am still giving him the routine treatment of cleaning his nose and opening the eyelids with help of saline water every 3 hours or so.

Canker: I have read about canker and the cheese yellow growth inside birds beak. Last time when I fed him I checked he did not have anything of that sort. Although I understand it might be that only in later stages the yellow thing shows in the beak.

Don't know much about sour crop, advise me or point me to links. 

Thanks again.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

For food, when ill, we usually want to feed things that are easier to digest, I suggested the bread because I knew you would have some, or could easily get some, and it's easy to digest for them. I wouldn't feed corn. or larger hard food right now, wheat, small lentils, bread and barley should be fine for now.

Call/ask around you should be able to find antibiotic eye ointment/drops, I posted the names of the drugs that they may contain a few posts a go, do try and find some, as I think they will help.

Canker can be further down in the GI, where it is not easily seen, so we can't rule this out as a co-infection this little guy could possibly have. Do a search of this site for "sour crop" there is a good amount of information on it here.

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Update and new trouble here

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-me-save-him-52328.html


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