# Pmv ?



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

One of the new babies I have is twisting his head sideways to the left does it sound like PMV? I think I need to get this baby into the vets ASAP as I don't want it to get worse or spread. I am so confused. better yet I am so angry that this adorable baby is sick. 

Cindy


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about these symptoms, are there any other symptoms, how does the poop look, any unusual swelling of joints? 

Here is an excellent thread on PMV, which lists symptoms:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12248


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I guess my next question is if one baby has it then the chances that the other baby has it is pretty good, although the other baby hasn't shown signs yet. Boy this baby bird season isn't turning out the greatest already. Can the vet still vacc. against it and it would go away? Or even better yet can she give the other baby a vacc, and stop the other baby from getting it?


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Right now it is the eldest baby. turning his head upside down and can't walk straight.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

THAT is a definite symptom of PMV, be sure to isolate the youngster in any case.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm sorry to hear about your baby, Cindy.

How old is he? 

Cindy


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Cindy,
I'm going to move your thread to the ill & injured forum. 

Cindy


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

7 to 9 days old. I just called the vet and she said that she could send dome antibiotics home but the chances of recovery are slim and it is highly contagious and they may not recover. She also said that if one has it then the other nestling baby will probably get it. She offered to euthanize them to prevent my other pet birds from getting sick. I have not responded to that offer yet she told me to think about it. I want to vaccinate my other pigeons from this but how do I go about it? I asked her and she said because it isn't something usually carried on the shelf she would have to order the vaccine and it could get expensive seeing I have 5 pet pigeons inside. What do you think?

Cindy


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Check out this thread. First of all, separate the two babies from each other AND your other birds. That is THE most important thing you can do right now. You can order the vaccine from Foy's, Seigels, Globals and they HAVE to ship it next day because it's shipped with an ice pack and must remain cold. Then YOU could vaccinate the birds OR if you aren't comfortable doing it (I'm not  ), maybe you could take the vaccine to your vet and let them vaccinate the rest of the birds. PMV vaccine is not that expensive and it will keep in the fridge, so you don't have to throw it away. You do however, have to order a 100 dose bottle. You could get it though, get the birds vaccinated, refrigerate the rest and probably find someone here that could use some. 
IMO, getting it and vaccinating the birds is top priority right now. You/we can worry about what to do with the rest of it later. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=27038


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

There is one guy near by that I have done favors for before and could ask him to vaccinate my other birds if he will is another question though. Right now I am most concern about getting these babies out of my house as I don't want this virus to spread. Can Cockatiels and conures get it?


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

naturegirl said:


> 7 to 9 days old. I just called the vet and she said that she could send dome antibiotics home but the chances of recovery are slim and it is highly contagious and they may not recover. She also said that if one has it then the other nestling baby will probably get it. She offered to euthanize them to prevent my other pet birds from getting sick. I have not responded to that offer yet she told me to think about it. I want to vaccinate my other pigeons from this but how do I go about it? I asked her and she said because it isn't something usually carried on the shelf she would have to order the vaccine and it could get expensive seeing I have 5 pet pigeons inside. What do you think?
> 
> Cindy



Hi Cindy -

1) Sounds like the vet does not understand that PMV is a virus - antibiotics won't fix it

2) I'm not usually one to put forward Paratyphoid on no evidence, but it is a possibility, given the age of the baby. If it is PMV, then have any other birds (especially the parents) shown any signs of it? 

The turning upside down of head is the one thing which could just _maybe_ indicate Paratyphoid. Bird is possibly too young to show other PMV symptoms yet, of course - seed tossing, spinning in circles, difficulty in focusing on food, etc.

Thing is, it can and does happen that one baby of a pair gets it and the other doesn't (but I don't know the reason), and the parent(s) could carry Paratyphoid yet not appear infected themselves. 

If it was that, then an antibiotic (like Baytril) would be the treatment.

John


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

John_D said:


> Hi Cindy -
> 
> 1) Sounds like the vet does not understand that PMV is a virus - antibiotics won't fix it
> 
> ...


I'm glad you posted this. I had to go cook breakfast and was thinking and it dawned on me that she had said the babies were only 7 to 9 days old. I doubt you would see PMV showing in a bird that young. I'm leaning more toward Paratyphoid too. And, you are right in that one baby can get it and the other not. I also don't know the reason for that. At any rate, you can't vaccinate a pigeon as young as these are. They should be 28 days old at least or older.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> I'm glad you posted this. I had to go cook breakfast and was thinking and it dawned on me that she had said the babies were only 7 to 9 days old. I doubt you would see PMV showing in a bird that young. I'm leaning more toward Paratyphoid too. And, you are right in that one baby can get it and the other not. I also don't know the reason for that. At any rate, you can't vaccinate a pigeon as young as these are. They should be 28 days old at least or older.


I agree with Both Renee and John. I was reading through the thread and thinking "Paratyphoid". I was also thinking...calm down, CIndy...don't freak out and do anything drastic.


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Is the bird cold?*

If a young bird gets to cold, they can show this behavior as well. If it doesn't seem as warm as it should be, you should be able to tell and an hour on a heating pad could be all that it needed.

This sounds very young to have any of these diseases but I suppose it is possible.

If a bird already has PMV, I would think that it is too late for the vaccine, is it not?

I have never seen a bird this young that showed any signs of Paratyphoid and I have never seen Paratyphoid to cause the loss of balance and head twisting that PMV and vitamin B deficiencies can cause. Are you finding any green feces from any of your pigeons? If you ask me, this is the number one indicator of the presence of Paratyphoid and it will not normally attack only one bird but it could.

See if the bird is cold. It sounds like it is too young to have any of these things but of course, none of them can be ruled out yet.

Bill


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Fbirdie82 said:


> I am no expert, but I know they can get PMV-2 and PMV-3 AND recover from it... but I believe pigeons only get PMV-1? Someone more knowledgable please correct me if I am wrong!


Hi

Yes, Pigeons get PMV-1. I believe the 2 and 3 affect different species.

John


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> If a young bird gets to cold, they can show this behavior as well. If it doesn't seem as warm as it should be, you should be able to tell and an hour on a heating pad could be all that it needed.
> 
> This sounds very young to have any of these diseases but I suppose it is possible.
> 
> ...


Bill, Paratyphoid can resemble PMV. If you did rehab you'd probably see it too. Sounds like you run a pretty tight ship with your flock and they are fairly well insulated from many of the illnesses rehabbers deal with. So we have different experience from you.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

When I got the babies in a week ago they were cold so I brought them up to room temperature slowly and rehydrated them and they were fine. They eat like little pigs and gaining weight, yesterday I noticed that the older one was walking in circles and falling over, always had his head up in the air half tilted backwards, this morning when I got up and checked on them he was flipping his head upside down like PMV, since they have come to me they have remained on a heating pad set to low the whole time. So it wasn't because they were cold.


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*So I've been told*

I didn't see anywhere about where this bird came from.

I am fairly new here and I don't know for sure who all of the rescuers and rehabbers are. Personally, I'd like to see these things made more clear in a new thread.

Yes, my birds are quite well protected from the outside world and there isn't alot of disease floating around my area anyway.

Still, the bird is very young and simply being cold can make a young bird appear as diseased or very ill and a simple warm up can "cure" it. 

It may very well have a disease, I don't know but I'd like to find out if it could simply be too cold first and take it from there.

Bill


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> I didn't see anywhere about where this bird came from.
> 
> I am fairly new here and I don't know for sure who all of the rescuers and rehabbers are. Personally, I'd like to see these things made more clear in a new thread.
> 
> ...


You will figure it all out in time. It's easy for all of us to remember you, than it is for you to keep all of us straight.


----------

