# Please help, strange bumps on Mourning Dove fledgling



## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Hello,
First off I'm new here, but also had join to have some assistance with my Mourning Dove fledgling. 

To start, I don't know how old the fledgling is for I had taken him in a while back. I own a pair of Diamond doves and I *try* to study doves carefully but since I have taken this baby dove in, it has been doing very well by the way it's always active and eating regularly. Though this is what concerns me as of now. 

Since I had found the baby dove, I noticed a couple of large bumps on its chest and very few by the neck and cheek. I'm unaware of what this is and I truly don't know what to do. The bumps are pale with a small tint of yellow and on the bumps are no feathers though, feathers do grow around it. 
May anyone please assist me? 

One more concern, since I had found the dove, it had small cuts on the feet and is slightly swollen. I read that if it swells, it is an infection and I must take it to the vet. But is there anything I can do?

*EDIT:* Now the the fledgling is swollen right under its beak. I'm sorry if these may be dumb question and such but this is my first time handling a *Mourning Dove*. I'm mainly knowledgeable on Diamond doves, and I'm not sure if they have different infections and such.

*Edit2:* I now have an album showing the symptoms.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi...post some pics, please.

...the Q's are not dumb at all...but it will be easier to advice if we have some visual info....


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Jaye said:


> Hi...post some pics, please.
> 
> ...the Q's are not dumb at all...but it will be easier to advice if we have some visual info....


I'll post some pics right away. May I message you to inform that They are posted?


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Jaye said:


> Hi...post some pics, please.
> 
> ...the Q's are not dumb at all...but it will be easier to advice if we have some visual info....


I just uploaded pictures in my album.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's the direct link to the pics, for anyone else:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1688

Offhand, I am unfamiliar with this sorta thing. I have contacted a few other members who may have more experience, they should be replying soon.

But, you say that she/he is still eating OK and her/his energy level is pretty good ?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Looks like it could be pigeon pox they can get pox on their feet as well. Don't like the swelling in the face area and would start this little one on antibiotics ASAP, as there can be secondary bacterial issues with pox.

Where are you located so we can better direct you to perhaps some local help or where you can find some antibiotics. Also, you, your family or your friends may even have some antibiotics around that could work, either for themselves or their pets.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Jaye said:


> Here's the direct link to the pics, for anyone else:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=1688
> 
> ...


Yes, the fledgling is seeming alright and is walking, eating, flying and even peeping as if really it's fine but the swelling is begining to worry me and the cuts aren't looking any better  Thank you though for your help!


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Looks like it could be pigeon pox they can get pox on their feet as well. Don't like the swelling in the face area and would start this little one on antibiotics ASAP, as there can be secondary bacterial issues with pox.
> 
> Where are you located so we can better direct you to perhaps some local help or where you can find some antibiotics. Also, you, your family or your friends may even have some antibiotics around that could work, either for themselves or their pets.
> 
> Karyn


As for this issue, I have contacted a nearby avian Vet and scheduled an appointment (Hopefully by Monday I'll take it there but if worst comes to worst, Saturday for sure). Do you think they would treat it with antibiotics? And if they do, do you have any idea on pricing? 

I live in South Florida (U.S.), near fortlauderdale and in the city of Davie. Close to Miami as well.

With antibiotics, how would I provide it for the bird? May I get maybe a more detailed procedure to helping this little fledgling? 

Thank you so much for your help, hopefully things will get better soon!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well, as it's Saturday night I am gonna assume you didn't take it to the vet. In which case, I hope your appt. is in the AM on Monday.

The vet will probably do a blood test, and prescribe meds. One word of warning, however...I am assuming your vet treats your Diamond Doves as well so you have a good rapport with her/him. Just confirm that they have no issues treating Ferals before you go.

The likelihood is the antibiotics would be liquid form given with a 1cc syringe.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> As for this issue, I have contacted a nearby avian Vet and scheduled an appointment (Hopefully by Monday I'll take it there but if worst comes to worst, Saturday for sure). Do you think they would treat it with antibiotics? And if they do, do you have any idea on pricing?
> 
> I live in South Florida (U.S.), near fortlauderdale and in the city of Davie. Close to Miami as well.
> 
> ...


Rascal, you need to call the vet before hand and clearly explain that the bird you are brining in is a Mourning Dove. Mourning Doves in most places are a protected native species of bird and a vet may not be allowed to treat it, and in a worse case scenario could actually seize the bird from you because wild, native birds can not be claimed as pets.

If this ends up being the case, there are other ways to get the meds needed to start treatment.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Jaye said:


> Well, as it's Saturday night I am gonna assume you didn't take it to the vet. In which case, I hope your appt. is in the AM on Monday.
> 
> The vet will probably do a blood test, and prescribe meds. One word of warning, however...I am assuming your vet treats your Diamond Doves as well so you have a good rapport with her/him. Just confirm that they have no issues treating Ferals before you go.
> 
> The likelihood is the antibiotics would be liquid form given with a 1cc syringe.


When I mentioned Saturday, I meant this upcoming or next Saturday in the morning. I'm sorry! Hopefully on Monday but as I mentioned, if worst comes to worst, it will have to be later in the week. (I don't own a car just yet!) Honestly since I have purchased my Diamond doves, (A few months ago) They have been quite healthy and grooming has been decent. But since I think I read that Pigeon pox might be contagious, I should bring them too correct? 
Thank you so much for the info, I'll let them know.


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Rascal, you need to call the vet before hand and clearly explain that the bird you are brining in is a Mourning Dove. Mourning Doves in most places are a protected native species of bird and a vet may not be allowed to treat it, and in a worse case scenario could actually seize the bird from you because wild, native birds can not be claimed as pets.
> 
> If this ends up being the case, there are other ways to get the meds needed to start treatment.
> 
> Karyn


I am aware of this fact, but I'm almost certain I told them that this was a Mourning Dove that was in need. But to assure all is well I will let them know specifically again. But if this was to ever come, then it must be done, sadly. 

May I know of the other ways? If you have this information


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> I am aware of this fact, but I'm almost certain I told them that this was a Mourning Dove that was in need. But to assure all is well I will let them know specifically again. But if this was to ever come, then it must be done, sadly.
> 
> May I know of the other ways? If you have this information


You can't be almost certain, I think you need be certain, so do reconfirm with them that it is a Mourning Dove. The other ways are to either order in the meds from an pigeon supply house, such as Jedd's, or many tropical fish stores carry the meds needed to treat many infections, although marked for fish, they work well with pigeons/doves when mixed and dosed right. 

From the look of the swelling in the neck area, IMO, treatment shouldn't be delayed much.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> You can't be almost certain, I think you need be certain, so do reconfirm with them that it is a Mourning Dove. The other ways are to either order in the meds from an pigeon supply house, such as Jedd's, or many tropical fish stores carry the meds needed to treat many infections, although marked for fish, they work well with pigeons/doves when mixed and dosed right.
> 
> From the look of the swelling in the neck area, IMO, treatment shouldn't be delayed much.
> 
> Karyn


Okay, may you be specific on which brands or a name perhaps, of the meds needed? This would help


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> Okay, may you be specific on which brands or a name perhaps, of the meds needed? This would help


It would depend on which route you are thinking of taking, a pigeon supply house or tropical fish store, let me know what you have in mind doing and I'll tell you what to get.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> It would depend on which route you are thinking of taking, a pigeon supply house or tropical fish store, let me know what you have in mind doing and I'll tell you what to get.
> 
> Karyn


I think I'll try a fish store since anything related with pigeons are very rare in my area (except for miami).


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi rascal,


Please post some more close ups of the lesions and or swollen areas on the Dove?


Also, some good close ups of the Dove's fresh poops.


They are eating and drinking alright on their own?


Phil
Lv


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## PoppyFieldVet (Apr 9, 2009)

Those lesions look like how my Roger's began. 

I wrote a proforma on Avian Pox in a mourning dove earlier this year. You might want to take a look although I am afraid it didn't end well for the bird. 
(Pledger A (2005). Avian pox virus infection in a mourning dove. Canadian Veterinary Journal 46(12): 1143–1145)- I didn't write this but I wrote about it and the relevant anatomy!

Pox is hugely contagious and can be self-spread. The dove in the paper had pox lesions on it's chest too, probably due to tiny cuts on it's chest being in contact with it's foot lesions as he rested. 
Try to get a photo looking down his throat and clear photos of the chest swellings. 

Check out the bottom of Cynthia's page (http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/woodpigeon.htm) for some homeopathic and herbal treatment all aimed towards boosting the immune system and helping him fight the virus off. 

You could also look into applying iodine tincture to aid drying of the lesions with a cotton buds. 

I hope he's doing ok. XxX


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> I think I'll try a fish store since anything related with pigeons are very rare in my area (except for miami).


Since you live near Fort Lauderdale, you should not have a hard time finding what you would need. You need two medicines, one is Called Triple-Sulfa by API and the other is called Metroplex by Seachem, it has to be these two meds, do not buy/substitute anything else without consulting here first.

Here is a map to get you going, call and ask for the specified meds before going:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp...=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=865e40e76836756c

When you have the meds I will instruct you how to mix them and administer, you will also need a 1cc syringe, the kind without a needle attached (almost any drug store will have the for about $1.00).

Please also post up some the images Phil has asked for, make sure all the images, including the the droppings, are clear and have good lighting.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Hi rascal,
> 
> 
> Please post some more close ups of the lesions and or swollen areas on the Dove?
> ...


Sure thing.


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

PoppyFieldVet said:


> Those lesions look like how my Roger's began.
> 
> I wrote a proforma on Avian Pox in a mourning dove earlier this year. You might want to take a look although I am afraid it didn't end well for the bird.
> (Pledger A (2005). Avian pox virus infection in a mourning dove. Canadian Veterinary Journal 46(12): 1143–1145)- I didn't write this but I wrote about it and the relevant anatomy!
> ...


Thank you so much.
More photos are on the way. It seems that the virus is getting worse because now there is more white topping his face ;( I am unable to go to the vet any time soon due to expense issues so therefore, I'm highly relying on any help I can get, and this seems like it can help. With Iodine, will this help slow down the virus at all? I have some here and I'll probably be trying this.


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Since you live near Fort Lauderdale, you should not have a hard time finding what you would need. You need two medicines, one is Called Triple-Sulfa by API and the other is called Metroplex by Seachem, it has to be these two meds, do not buy/substitute anything else without consulting here first.
> 
> Here is a map to get you going, call and ask for the specified meds before going:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I'll ask to go to one of these shops today! I'll be uploading some more photos here.


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Since you live near Fort Lauderdale, you should not have a hard time finding what you would need. You need two medicines, one is Called Triple-Sulfa by API and the other is called Metroplex by Seachem, it has to be these two meds, do not buy/substitute anything else without consulting here first.
> 
> Here is a map to get you going, call and ask for the specified meds before going:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I'll ask to go to one of these shops today! I'll be uploading some more photos here.
I also called to check if these supplys were in stock, I can easily get the Triple-sulfa but the metroplex they have is from a different brand is is called metroplus. Will this do?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> Thank you so much! I'll ask to go to one of these shops today! I'll be uploading some more photos here.
> I also called to check if these supplys were in stock, I can easily get the Triple-sulfa but the metroplex they have is from a different brand is is called metroplus. Will this do?


No, the Metro+ is Metronidazole, but has additional additives in it that would harm a bird if given, call a few more stores, keep looking, Metroplex is a popular brand. But get the Triple-Sulfa, as it would be best to get at least the antibiotic started tonight if possible.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> No, the Metro+ is Metronidazole, but has additional additives in it that would harm a bird if given, call a few more stores, keep looking, Metroplex is a popular brand. But get the Triple-Sulfa, as it would be best to get at least the antibiotic started tonight if possible.
> 
> Karyn


Alright I have the Triple-Sulfa with me now. I'll be on the search for the other because most stores were actually closed today. I believe I'm ready for the directions


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> Alright I have the Triple-Sulfa with me now. I'll be on the search for the other because most stores were actually closed today. I believe I'm ready for the directions


Here are the instructions for mixing and giving both meds, even though you have not picked up the Metroplex, when you do you'll know what to do, so there is no delay, they can be given at the same time, twice a day.

Get a shot-glass and place 2 1/2 scoops of the Metroplex (Metronidazole) into into it, then to this add 5mL of pancake syrup, stir well, let sit 20 minutes, stir again and you will have a 5% (50mg/mL) suspension to dose with. The 5mL is equal to 1 cooking teaspoon (it must be a cooking teaspoon not a common flatware spoon, or use the 1cc syringe 5 times, to the 1cc mark). Give this little guy 0.10cc (5mg, this is the first line one a 1cc syringe, for reference this will be about 2 drops) and then same every 12 hours for the next 7 days and well reassess then. Stir very well each time you draw a dose and refrigerate between use.

For the Triple-Sulfa:

Each small, individual packet in the API box contains 1000mg of pure Triple-Sulfa med, I want you open one of these packs and dump it on something the glossy magazine cover again. Divide the little pile of Triple-Sulfa (TS) evenly in half so you will now have two piles of 500mg each, use a credit card or a business card, then put other half back in the pack and put away.

I want you to get the shot-glass again, or a very small container and add 10mL of pancake syrup into it, this will be 2 level teaspoons, scrape it all in with your finger (1 teaspoon = 5mL, use a cooking teaspoon and not a common flatware teaspoon, as mentioned before). Now with the half pack of the Triple-Sulfa you have set aside (500mg), add this into the 10mL of pancake syrup and stir very well in, cover and let sit for 20 minutes, stir very well again and it will be ready for use. You now have a 5% TS suspension (50mg/mL) to dose with.

You will want to give once more 0.10cc (first line of the 1cc syringe, roughly 2 drops) of the TS every 12 hours as well, this will be 5mg each time. Again, make sure you shake, or stir, the suspension well before drawing up the med each time you use it and keep it in the refrigerator between use. Just gently open the bird's mouth and place 1-2 drops at a time in the front of his mouth and allow him to tongue it down

FYI, 1cc = 1mL, same thing.

The above is based on your little guy weighing 100g, but will be a safe and effective dose if he is a little above or below this. If you can get him weighed, we can fine tune the dose. Please do get the Metroplex tomorrow, as the Triple-Sulfa will not treat for canker and this is a real concern as well with the neck swelling. I'll be keeping a close eye on your thread in case you have concerns or questions.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Here are the instructions for mixing and giving both meds, even though you have not picked up the Metroplex, when you do you'll know what to do, so there is no delay, they can be given at the same time, twice a day.
> 
> Get a shot-glass and place 2 1/2 scoops of the Metroplex (Metronidazole) into into it, then to this add 5mL of pancake syrup, stir well, let sit 20 minutes, stir again and you will have a 5% (50mg/mL) suspension to dose with. The 5mL is equal to 1 cooking teaspoon (it must be a cooking teaspoon not a common flatware spoon, or use the 1cc syringe 5 times, to the 1cc mark). Give this little guy 0.10cc (5mg, this is the first line one a 1cc syringe, for reference this will be about 2 drops) and then same every 12 hours for the next 7 days and well reassess then. Stir very well each time you draw a dose and refrigerate between use.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, again. I'll be purchasing the Metroplex tomorrow in the afternoon. Thank you so much for your help. 
As for a question, when do you think I'll be seeing results of wellness? 
Also to update, I posted more pictures of the pox if you would like a look. Sorry if they are a little dark, they looked lighter on the phone as i took the picture.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> Thank you so much, again. I'll be purchasing the Metroplex tomorrow in the afternoon. Thank you so much for your help.
> As for a question, when do you think I'll be seeing results of wellness?
> Also to update, I posted more pictures of the pox if you would like a look. Sorry if they are a little dark, they looked lighter on the phone as i took the picture.


Rascal, the pox itself is caused by a self limiting virus, that there is no real treatment for, and will heal in over the next few weeks to come. My concern if that there may be secondary bacterial and protozoal issues as well (infection by bacteria and/or canker) this is what the meds will treat for. The treatment period most times is 7-14 days, so we will treat for a week and reassess then. It would be helpful if there is anyway you could borrow a camera to take your photos with, as the photos will be relied on to asses this little guy's condition and the better quality; that is, lighting, color quality, focus and ability for closeups, the better.

Karyn


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Rascal, the pox itself is caused by a self limiting virus, that there is no real treatment for, and will heal in over the next few weeks to come. My concern if that there may be secondary bacterial and protozoal issues as well (infection by bacteria and/or canker) this is what the meds will treat for. The treatment period most times is 7-14 days, so we will treat for a week and reassess then. It would be helpful if there is anyway you could borrow a camera to take your photos with, as the photos will be relied on to asses this little guy's condition and the better quality; that is, lighting, color quality, focus and ability for closeups, the better.
> 
> Karyn


Alright, thank you for the info on that. I'm understanding it more now. But now I have one more concern. I'm trying to feed him the medication off the syringe and it's not very easy getting him to eat this :\ Is there any other way? Possibly? (Sorry If im asking too many questions, I just want to make sure I'm doing whats best for this fledgling.)
(Uploaded one more picture, hopefully this one should be good.)


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

It isn't easy, particularly with a Dove because they are small.

The 'towel method' usually works. That is...wrap him/her gently in a towel so only the head/neck stick out and cradle the towel/body w/ one hand/arm. Use the other hand to gently pry the beak open and insert the syringe at the tip of the mouth (do NOT 'squirt' the meds into the back of the mouth). Lay a bit of meds on the tongue at the front of the mouth, then close the beak for a moment. She/he should swallow. Repeat this until entire dosage is given.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

rascal66 said:


> Alright, thank you for the info on that. I'm understanding it more now. But now I have one more concern. I'm trying to feed him the medication off the syringe and it's not very easy getting him to eat this :\ Is there any other way? Possibly? (Sorry If im asking too many questions, I just want to make sure I'm doing whats best for this fledgling.)
> (Uploaded one more picture, hopefully this one should be good.)


Get this little guy wrapped up in a small towel and here is a link on how to open and hold his mouth. You are only giving two drops of each medicine, so just place one drop at a time at about where the tips of the fingers start and let him tongue it down and then do the same for the second drop, then again the same for the two other drops of the second med. Do not squirt it in or place the drops too far back in the mouth, toward the throat area. Did you get the Metronidazole are you dosing him with it today?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

For a Morning Dove, use a plain average size Wash Cloth.

Lay it on your Lap, behind your Knees, with the corners of it to the sides and toward-away from your body.

Fold the two corners which are the ones that are in line with your body, fold them some ways in so the Washcloth is narrower then in that dimension.

Bring the Dove's Legs straight back against their Tail, and, press them on to the Wash Cloth so they are facing you, which because of how it is lain, presses the Dove then into the low area between your held together Legs, behind your Knees.

Then, firmly fold each long side/corner of the Wash Cloth over the Dove, and, you have your 'Dove Burrito'.

Not getting the Legs held back will frsutrate any such efforts, and, or, can cause the Legs to be injured or invites the Dove to climb "out" of it, when trying to spigot the Bird behind your knees in order to have both hands free.

If you need images, let me know.

Arrange for a strong Light source to be shining down so you can see well into their Beak when opening it.


The Link Dobato gives in her above Post, shows a docile, tame, unresisting, and people-accustomed Pigeon who is being totally co-operative.

This is only rarely seen in a new arrive Wild Pigeon or Dove, who generaly will effect the 'Beak-of-Iron" and resist for all they are worth, refusing to let anyone open it.

So, sometimes, it takes some patience, gentleness, explaining to the Bird what you wish to do, showing them the meds, pretending to take the meds yourself, so they can see it is a kind of 'food-thing', and so on.

Younger Birds may have soft Beaks which can be damaged by trying to open them with any sort of force, so, all this has to be judged and dealt with as-per.


If the Dove is fairly accepting, and, will 'Nuzzle', it should be easier, but, may still take some working out..so don;t be discouraged if this takes several tries for a success to forthcome.


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## rascal66 (May 13, 2011)

*Major new issue.*

Through out the days, I've been feeding him regularly and providing the medication to my dove as directed. But now today this morning, he can't even seem to lift his head anymore! He's wobbling and can't even stand on his feet. I fear the worst, his eyes are almost nearly shut *due to swelling* and he's not even willing to eat anymore.  I truly don't know what to do at this point, I fear his time may be coming soon unless I do something to aid him properly, and effectively.


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