# Super Star



## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

WinSpeed-20 HEARTLAND RACING PIGEON FEDERATION 09/24/13-16:25
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: LAMONI Young Bird Race Flown: 09/21/2013
Released: 07:30 Birds: 423 Lofts: 24 Station: LAMONI
Weather (Rel) CLEAR, NW 3, 45 degrees (Arr) CLEAR, NW 10, 47 degrees

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.24 MONEYS LOFT 604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 1 14:10:29 300 00.00 1318.873 15
2 0.47 VANCE CREEK 2230 AU 13 RCR BBAR C 0 15:50:29 332 57.22 1167.684 5
3 0.71 GOLDWING LOF 70 AU 13 GWL BB H 0 17:14:36 378 01:20 1136.956 5


The first bird on the sheet (604)was the winner of 5 races this year , some races by 30 + minutes. You can see the results on the Heartland federation web site. The word on the street is that the bird has already been sold for $75,000.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You guys must have some world class birds over there, Our races so far have been close, Must give one a real buzz to know their bird was 30 mins faster than anyone elses. $75 000..... shoot!!!!!


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

I've never seen a bird won by this far before, is this possible. Have anyone seen this bird come home from race day? Who bought the bird for $75k? I rather go on pipa and buy and champ there.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Had a hen win by 27 minutes last year......never sent her again. Should have seen if she could do it again......get the big bucks.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

In 2008 I had 3 birds on the drop and another 1.19 behind them. My next bird was 21.35 behind them and still took 5th. The first drop won the next loft by 23.37 with less than a mile between us and this was a 165 mile race.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

WinSpeed-20 HEARTLAND RACING PIGEON FEDERATION 
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: NORTHWOOD Young Bird Race Flown: 08/10/2013
Released: 06:45 Birds: 567 Lofts: 22 Station: NORTHWOOD
Weather (Rel) CLEAR, NE 6, 59 degrees (Arr) CLEAR, NW 7, 71 degrees

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.18 MONEYS LOFT 604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 1 08:23:30 104 00.00 1849.790 15
2 0.35 MIDWEST LOFT 3816 AU 13 JEDD SLAT C 0 09:09:18 113 36.40 1379.688 5
3 0.53 AVENS LOFT 485 AU 13 UNIT BB C 5 09:09:29 113 36.51 1378.001 1

This was the birds first race


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

WinSpeed-20 METRO COMBINE 
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: CLEAR LAKE Young Bird Race Flown: 08/24/2013
Released: 07:15 Birds: 377 Lofts: 17 Station: CLEAR LAKE
Weather (Rel) CLOUDY, SSE 15, 45 degrees (Arr) CLOUDY, SSE 15, 47 degrees

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.27 MONEYS LOFT 604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 1 09:20:37 121 00.00 1694.767 15
2 0.53 HMONG DREAM 708 AU 13 UNIT BB H 0 09:23:21 123 00.35 1687.039 5
3 0.80 HMONG DREAM 643 AU 13 UNIT BB H 0 09:23:26 2 00.39 1686.053 5
4 1.06 HMONG DREAM 637 AU 13 UNIT BC H 0 09:24:35 3 01.48 1671.112 5
The second race it was down the sheet a little but this is the 3rd race.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

WinSpeed-20 METRO COMBINE 09/04/13-09:30
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: CLEAR LAKE Young Bird Race Flown: 08/31/2013
Released: 07:10 Birds: 399 Lofts: 16 Station: CLEAR LAKE
Weather (Rel) CLEAR, NW 3, 73 degrees (Arr) CLOUDY, ESE 7, 81 degrees

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.25 MONEYS LOFT 604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 1 09:14:11 121 00.00 1714.286 15
2 0.50 YIA LOFT 238 AU 13 UNIT BB H 0 09:58:50 124 41.36 1291.776 5
3 0.75 MONEYS LOFT 41 AU 13 MONE BB H 0 09:56:29 2 42.18 1278.636 5


4th race


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

WinSpeed-20 METRO COMBINE 09/24/13-16:21
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: LAMONI Young Bird Race Flown: 09/21/2013
Released: 07:30 Birds: 225 Lofts: 15 Station: LAMONI
Weather (Rel) CLEAR, NW 3, 45 degrees (Arr) CLEAR, NW 10, 47 degrees

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.44 MONEYS LOFT 604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 1 14:10:29 300 00.00 1318.873 15
2 0.89 MIDWEST LOFT 3802 AU 13 JEDD BB H 0 15:25:35 306 01:07 1131.246 5
3 1.33 MIDWEST LOFT 3824 AU 13 JEDD BB H 0 15:25:39 2 01:07 1131.075 5
And the 5th race.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

The officials did toss the bird after the races and it made a few circles then trapped in, just like the AU rules state. 

I don't think it was drug tested and I'm not sure who bought the bird but someone said in was sold to someone in Mexico. 

Most people have never seen a performance like this before and I'm sure most will never see it again . If you're wanted to know the breeding I think its a Van Loon x Klaas.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Does anyone know, was the flier of this bird a mob flier, or did he know his birds and send them based on their strengths? I would hope for the latter.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't think he was a mob flyer. He does spend a lot of money on his pigeons and I've been told he had a nest mate of this bird entered into a one loft race and it also was doing well in training, but I don't know what the outcome of this OLR was or if it has been raced yet.

The one thing that stands out is the fact that some of these races were flown with a slight head wind , you can see it said [email protected] and [email protected] 10 in 2 of the races.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Who's the owner....


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ERIC K said:


> WinSpeed-20 HEARTLAND RACING PIGEON FEDERATION
> Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
> Open and Junior Category
> Name: NORTHWOOD Young Bird Race Flown: 08/10/2013
> ...


You said in one of your other posts the race [email protected] was a head wind race I can't see a bird flying 63mph in a head wind. It's rare you get speeds like that even with tail winds. Then you look at the results on the Federation website and all the birds are close and that bird is way ahead. There must be a lot of guys out by you calling this guy a cheater I know here if a guy wins a race by 10 mins there's talk about the guy cheating but to win normal races with over 500 birds by over an hour is crazy. I've won a smash race by over an hour but that's different that happens when the birds are broken up. But when the race comes together as you can see on the results the birds were together how would one bird by itself fly 17mph faster then the pack. To me there's no way for a bird to make that speed in a head wind.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> You said in one of your other posts the race [email protected] was a head wind race I can't see a bird flying 63mph in a head wind. It's rare you get speeds like that even with tail winds. Then you look at the results on the Federation website and all the birds are close and that bird is way ahead. There must be a lot of guys out by you calling this guy a cheater I know here if a guy wins a race by 10 mins there's talk about the guy cheating but to win normal races with over 500 birds by over an hour is crazy. I've won a smash race by over an hour but that's different that happens when the birds are broken up. But when the race comes together as you can see on the results the birds were together how would one bird by itself fly 17mph faster then the pack. To me there's no way for a bird to make that speed in a head wind.


It certainly seems unlikely, but how do you prove otherwise? I mean, what can be done?


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Should have been drug tested, I can't believe that it wasn't to be honest.


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

is that the guy from the united club? the all Asian one?


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

damn just read the results.. thats crazy ass helllll.those times are fast


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Turns out that the AU had a special meeting and all board members agreed that what the bird did on paper was impossible , and its been disqualified.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Rats! I was wanting to believe it....


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Just read about the bird on another forum from one of his supporters. The owners name is Nhia Lor. Money loft has birds in every OLR you can name practically. They're not all great but he does real well. He was real successful in the Heartland races and won the Plymouth Peak race last week. He and his supporters all say its legit and I've got no reason to doubt......I just want to have that kind of a bird too.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Which other forum ?


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

Its impossible, no way a bird could fly that good in head wind. This bird should of been drug tested. I'm wondering if anyone in the federation saw that bird come home during the race.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

ERIC K said:


> Which other forum ?


Royal Racing Pigeon it's a Yahoo group.


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> Turns out that the AU had a special meeting and all board members agreed that what the bird did on paper was impossible , and its been disqualified.


I think they need to have proof rather than just assuming it's impossible and disqualify it, if that's what they did. Even if it was on drugs there's no proof if they didn't test it. 

You also wrote that the bird was tossed and it landed home. I'm also sure all eyes were on it at basketing and if the bird was in the crate during the release, I don't see an issue...if they didn't drug test it and it caming out positive for a banned substance. Proof is one thing...assumption is another. 

And, what do you do with the flyer if his bird is disqualified for impossible results? He would be a cheater and dealt with according to club/combine/AU rules. If the bird is disqualified, the flyer should also be discplined. If the flyer is not disciplined, the bird should not be disqualified.


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## mikeyg (Jul 11, 2012)

I would like to compare his stats to Bolt, the pigeon that recently sold for $400,000! Fastest pigeon in Europe


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Xueoo said:


> I think they need to have proof rather than just assuming it's impossible and disqualify it, if that's what they did. Even if it was on drugs there's no proof if they didn't test it.
> 
> You also wrote that the bird was tossed and it landed home. I'm also sure all eyes were on it at basketing and if the bird was in the crate during the release, I don't see an issue...if they didn't drug test it and it caming out positive for a banned substance. Proof is one thing...assumption is another.
> 
> And, what do you do with the flyer if his bird is disqualified for impossible results? He would be a cheater and dealt with according to club/combine/AU rules. If the bird is disqualified, the flyer should also be discplined. If the flyer is not disciplined, the bird should not be disqualified.


I agree. And I don't think it's impossible. Perhaps it is worthy of investigating, but if there is no proof - and if the feat is within the realm of possibility - then no action should be taken. 

As I read what is being said in the Yahoo group from some very reputable flyers who know this guy and know this bird and know this family of birds,(Klaas), I trust that it is possible.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

Moneys Loft has now been completely removed from the race results of the Heartland Federation young bird series and from the Metro Combine results as well I believe.
In order for that to be the case there must be some substantial factual evidence that there was ongoing illegal activity?
Perhaps as a member of the Heartland Federation Eric could enlighten us with some of the details related.


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## njhntr (Jun 5, 2012)

17 miles faster? 500 birds? head wind?
Sounds a lot like Barry Bonds Or Mark Mcguier
Mayb ethe poster of this was or is on something also.
Simply dont believe it today until proved
sorry had to write this


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

See I am completely against computerized clocks because there are many ways to cheat them! You guys assume he used the bird to cheat.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

The way I see it is none of the speeds were records. There was sufficient time between races to recoup. Wind wasn't a big factor. The first three races were short in the 100 mile range......some train that far. He wasn't especially long or short in his club. The birds behind him were pretty much just average as to speed. I've seen birds win by those amounts before...just not a YB four times in a row. The bird was an early hatch on the dark system and flew natural to babies and eggs. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt unless there's some proof and just be amazed that there are birds like him maybe once in a life time.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Kastle Loft said:


> I agree. And I don't think it's impossible. Perhaps it is worthy of investigating, but if there is no proof - and if the feat is within the realm of possibility - then no action should be taken.


x2. Unless they have proof, just because a bird is "too fast" doesn't warrant disqualification. It may warrant an investigation, but it's hardly fair to throw it all out until they have proof. Doesn't seem right to do so.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I agree completely with the logic as related by raftree3. If there was not scientific proof or eyewitness testimony then I don't see how the Combine, Federation and especially the ARPU can dispute the race results as originally recorded.


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

Isn't there a few members in here that are in the united club? Maybe the can tell us more about it.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

the best way to solve this i believe... Is to do a another replica of the race and let someone else other then heartland nor the owner release the bird, scan it, do drug testing or whatever.. if it is as good as it is.. It should not have a problem duplicating similar results!!!!!!!!! 
Someone from our combine was accused of cheating so we stop flying with heartland a couple years ago.. Just because his bird did good, i believe in the Topeka race..But if it was guys from heartland then i assume everything would of been ok ..especially the guys that advertise and has more to gain from winning...


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Darkening system kind of wears off after a few weeks I'm told, I don't doubt the pigeon Ron five races that's very possible. However how much it won by is out of this world. No awards should be taken away simply because they are unbelievable results, but because of evidence of cheating, if there is none than that bird won in my opinion.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

First To Hatch said:


> Darkening system kind of wears off after a few weeks I'm told, I don't doubt the pigeon Ron five races that's very possible. However how much it won by is out of this world. No awards should be taken away simply because they are unbelievable results, but because of evidence of cheating, if there is none than that bird won in my opinion.


My only point in mentioning that it was on the dark system is that it has a full wing and is mature enough that having a mate on the nest.....hormones and parental duties are in full force, albeit flying just like an old bird.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

I went back and read the posts about the bird and AU's actions about the bird on Royal. A letter was cut and pasted on the board that was written to the AU. I find it ridiculous that the actions were taken by the AU without proper proof. Sounds like a young flyer with a small loft is getting railroaded at this point. Hopefully they do the right thing.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

ejb3810 said:


> I agree completely with the logic as related by raftree3. If there was not scientific proof or eyewitness testimony then I don't see how the Combine, Federation and especially the ARPU can dispute the race results as originally recorded.


NATIONAL ACE PIGEON SUMMARY REPORT (Young Bird)
AU National Database
2013 Young Bird Season
Printed on October 9, 2013

Qualified birds from Minnesota




POS AVE UNIRATE NAME RACING PIGEON CLR SEX QUALIFYING RACE MILES

1 0.181% Nhia Lor 0604 AU 13 UNIT BC C 121, 121, 103, 201, 300. 
2 2.848% Steve Dietrich 2355 AU 13 WOND BBAR C 139, 123, 139, 167, 236. 
3 2.970% Brad Peterson 6451 AU 13 MM BCH H 197, 257, 120, 161, 161. 
4 4.147% Steve Dietrich 2350 AU 13 WOND BBAR H 306, 236, 139, 167. 
5 5.346% Tim Macken 6044 AU 13 RRP BP C 309, 141, 185, 169. 
6 5.377% Steve Dietrich 2320 AU 13 WOND DC C 183, 236, 139, 139, 167. 
7 5.540% Steve Dietrich 2224 AU 13 WOND BBAR C 167, 139, 139, 123, 306. 
8 6.091% Tim Macken 6062 AU 13 RRP BBAR C 169, 185, 309, 141. 
9 6.493% Steve Dietrich 2472 AU 13 WOND BCH H 167, 139, 139, 123, 236. 
10 7.097% Tim Macken 6077 AU 13 RRP BBAR C 309, 185, 169, 141. 
11 7.193% Nhia Lor 0005 AU 13 MONE DCSP H 201, 103, 103, 300, 121. 
12 7.491% Steve Dietrich 2466 AU 13 WOND BBAR H 123, 167, 139, 236, 139. 
13 8.696% Paul Thompson 6238 AU 13 RRP BBAR C 124, 168, 292, 221. 
14 8.795% Ge Her 1864 AU 13 UNIT SILV C 141, 320, 221, 141. 
15 9.649% Paul Thompson 6210 AU 13 RRP BBAR C 221, 168, 124, 292. 
16 9.797% Steve Dietrich 2246 AU 13 WOND BBAR C 167, 236, 139, 183, 139. 
17 9.982% Steve Dietrich 2484 AU 13 WOND BBAR H 236, 139, 139, 167, 167

Not trying to start anything here but apparently the AU still recognizes this bird as the winner of its races. The information I was given was second hand and I wanted to set the record straight. I have no Idea why the federation removed the birds record from their results page. Just to add fuel to the fire Money loft just won a tough 350 young bird one loft race on Monday, although there was 3 birds on the drop his bird was still the winner. Only 16 day birds to boot. Like others have said he has brought in birds to handle the racing and he has won other OLR too , and the sale of the bird is still a go $75,000 payday.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

it must be as good as it is.. congrats to money....


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree with Pigeon 0446......A bird winning a race by 5 to 7 minutes is amazing in itself...On a day with rain or headwinds,you could have a bird win with a big margin,just like Walter`s bird he memtioned above in his post...If the driver on the truck,was in kahoots with the owner,he could let the bird out 15 minutes or more before the rest of the race birds...When the owner sells the bird giving the driver 1/2 of the sale price....Makes you wonder,doesn`t it ??????????? Alamo

Here`s the 1st four races in 2013 YB`s for my Combine.....

100Miles....26L/482B......Winner 1350 YPM......25th place bird...1248YPM....Lost the race by 16 Minutes....
100Miles....28L/551B......Winner 1272 YPM......2nd place 1230 YPM...Lost by 5 Minutes...25th Place 1102 YPM...Lost the race by 25 Minutes....
150Miles....27L/486B......Winner 1440 YPM......2nd place 1423 YPM...Lost by 2.23 Min.....25th place 1363 YPM..Lost the race by 15 Minutes.....
200Miles....29L/424B......Winner 1343 YPM......25th place bird 1269 YPM...Lost the race by 14 Minutes......

THESE ARE ALL NORMAL RACE RESULTS....Of what I have read earlier,those are NOT normal results...Don`t care what system the guy is using...Do you think he is
the only guy racing a YB system ??? The AU is right for throwing his results out.....Alamo

PS:I have liberated a few YB races here in WVa....The prize money was $50,000.00 for 1st place...and a few paying $30,000.00 for 1st place...The birds are racing to the New York area....The combine/club pays me $100 to $200 to liberate the races....Why do you think they want/need me there to liberate the birds ???
Yes your right...They don`t want anyone releasing ONE bird 15 to 30 minutes early,before all the rest of the birds.....Alamo


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I've tried to get a bird out of the crate that didn't clock before.....not easy. If you were by yourself it would be even harder I'd think.


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

One of birds just won some money for me in there futurity race. flew by money lofts. so maybe he is that good.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

I personally dont trust anyone in heartland nor people from the twin cities .Especially in the one loft races or races where a lot of money is involve..Used to live there and know how people are around the twin cities... The most pigeon theft i have ever seen is in that area...


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## RPUSA (Mar 24, 2009)

Try to clear this situation up a little bit. I am the current Heartland Federation Vice President.

I am in no way accusing anyone of cheating by the comments I make below -

#1 Issue of bird being removed from Heartland results - As far as I am aware our Race Secretary with no authorization removed this bird from the results. He lied to me telling me the AU had step in and removed the bird. I repeated this infomation to several members who asked about it. After a call from the President saying he received a message from the AU he ask me to call them and find out what was going on. After talking to Jay Holder (Vice-President AU) who informed me Jerry told him that we had a board meeting and had decided to pull the bird - NO SUCH MEETING WAS EVER HELD - so Jerry Vernon lied to both me and the AU. Jerry has been told by the AU to restore the results and not to upload anything further to the database.

#2 Results of bird in question - No one I have talked to has ever seen anything like this results and I talked to quite a few people about it. I find it hard to believe - impossible I cannot say. I will say there are several ways someone could manipulate the results but I will not get into them here. Because of the lack of comunication from our race secretary due to an internal conflict going on in the Heartland Federation this situation has not been handled as well as it should. That being said with no proof the President and myself took no action. Our Race Secretary acted either alone or with other parties who have no legal standing to remove the birds results. This action is not condoned or directed by the leadership of the Heartland Federtation.

In closing we are currently working on getting our house in oder and I can make no futher comment on this or any other matter involving the Heartland Federtation at this time

Michael Sordahl
Vice President -Heartland Federation


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

So from what i can tell from this problem is that....they gonna split up the federation. damn more expensive for everyone now


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

There's a bunch of guys from your area down here for the Midwest Convention.....I'm trying to keep my ears open to see if that bird comes up in conversation.


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## Good Sport (Apr 30, 2011)

First of all finding out what took place with this bird has been severely compromised not because of anything the Race Secretary said or did not say. When something like this happens the leadership gets together along with the Race Secretaries and investigates the matter. The leadership does not look the other way to save political capital or because of an internal conflict but rather spends the capital to up hold the integrity of the races. The President and Vice President chose to look the other way for over {10 weeks} the entire young bird season. After the first week this should have been dealt with head on but they chose to write it off due to a internal conflict that they both help start. They are only now giving lip service to this matter because it has now become a National Embarrassment and the AU is involved. Time for the leadership of the HRPF to look in the mirror and start upholding the integrity of the races and race rules.


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## Senator (Apr 30, 2011)

Most people may not know this, but Money/Nhia has another loft south of the Twin Cities, near Owatonna or something like that. Maybe it is a relative.

Money was never around at race day, he was always gone. No one could sit and watch the birds come home from the race. Could it be he was at the other, shorter, loft with his race clock? The bird consistently came in about one hour ahead of everyone else. Short races or long, one hour.

Could it be that there are two 604s? Bands are easy to buy with whatever numbers you want, via the internet. You can order an entire string of 604s. Band a couple for the loft in the Twin Cities, band another few for the loft down south. You have a bird that will come back if tossed.

After the bird comes home from the race and is clocked, take the race band off and head home with it to put it on the 'other' 604. Then clock the rest of your birds.

I have heard the bird is on the Ken Easly breeding catalog. Pigeon racers are a different breed. No one seems to believe, or knows, physics. I would bet most of the pigeon racers would believe the world was flat, if it could be explained as a Racing Pigeon 'system'.

There are outstanding flyers in the Twin Cities, never has one had those results. Even in the same Federation, someone should have been close. There are far too many birds in each race not to have another bird within spitting distance of a win.

But congrats to Nhia. Maybe others will be able to use the 'system' he has, and get their own $75,000 bird. Even if it is split between two people, it's a quick $35,000 each. That's more than some people make in a year. You could even rent some farmland for less than $1,000 to put up a loft.

http://nmracingpigeons.homestead.com/Breeding-Catalog.html


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Didn`t know you could buy bands with all the same numbers....Seems illegal to me,to be able to buy bands that way....Would the AU or IF sell bands with all the same numbers???
If not,where would this guy get his bands from ??
I beleive if there is a shorter loft,the bird is trained to HOME on race day to the short location...Then it is brought to the longer loft...If it is let out,it will stay at the longer loft,because it is only trained to go to the short loft from a race,or training toss.....Remember, the US Army had birds trained to go both ways...Fed at one loft,and watered at the other loft...It could be possible to do this,if you really wanted to cheat real bad....Who knows for sure....Only the owner knows.....Alamo


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Alamo said:


> Didn`t know you could buy bands with all the same numbers....Seems illegal to me,to be able to buy bands that way....Would the AU or IF sell bands with all the same numbers???
> If not,where would this guy get his bands from ??
> I beleive if there is a shorter loft,the bird is trained to HOME on race day to the short location...Then it is brought to the longer loft...If it is let out,it will stay at the longer loft,because it is only trained to go to the short loft from a race,or training toss.....Remember, the US Army had birds trained to go both ways...Fed at one loft,and watered at the other loft...It could be possible to do this,if you really wanted to cheat real bad....Who knows for sure....Only the owner knows.....Alamo


There was somebody from overseas selling bands on here a while ago that said he could put what ever you wanted on the band so they could make counterfeit bands. But like you said they could easily train a bird to live at 2 lofts. They caught a guy doing that here years ago. They suspected the guy was doing it and instead of tossing the bird at the longer loft they held the bird over night and tossed the bird about 10 miles short of the shorter loft and the bird landed at the shorter loft. I actually had a bird that I resettled to my loft that would fly past my house go to his original loft sit there then come home later. Then one 400 he came straight home and won the race. But if his original loft was short of me I could have easily stolen races by clocking him there. But even then you'd have to have a little common sense and clock the bird with speeds closer to what the birds should make for the weather conditions.


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## Relentless (Oct 16, 2013)

From what I hear, the Federation has some serious leadership issues at the moment. I have several friends up in there and the word on the street is as follows: the AU ordered the bird removed, the race secretary removed all the results of the flyer, the flyer complained to the AU, the AU rescinded their order due to a threat of legal action, the race secretary then relisted the bird (see fed website, the results are back online), and it's back to the Federation to investigate if they wish. Normally these issues are handed over the the race committee to investigate, which apparently never happened. It seems like the current leadership of the Federation doesn't know how to investigate a race related issue, and has had it's head stuck in the sand for quite some time (ie Per the Heartlands VP Michael Sordahl's post "That being said with no proof the President and myself took no action"). Results this good provide reasonable doubt simply due to the astonishing nature of the results. I think the leadership should have acted decisively from the start and followed the proper procedures to investigate. If I were Money, I would be pissed (if no funny business ocurred) that the leadership didn't follow procedure to investigate as it would vindicate the results, removing any reasonable doubt. It seems like the cause of all the confusion and chaos comes from the top (Pres & VP), but that's just my outside opinion.

I would agree with Michaels assessment though, it is hard to believe the bird is that good, impossible is another question. Birds with this type of results should always be investigated while providing due process to the flyer. If the result is thrown out, it should be based on deomonstating that the results are invalid beyond all reasonable doubt.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Here in the Pittsburgh area,many,many years ago,a pigeon named "True Grit" won 9 races...There was never a doubt that this pigeon wasn`t a great pigeon...It won races,but nothing like the results that is reported by this post here....There were no wins by an hour...There were always other lofts pigeons a few minutes behind....According to the old timers here,there were witness to the arrival of this bird more then once,by other pigeon guys...Truly a remarkabe pigeon was "True Grit".......Alamo


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm surprised the bird was never tossed at the recorded loft to confirm legitimacy?


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

It was posted that they did and it landed.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> *The officials did toss the bird after the races and it made a few circles then trapped in, just like the AU rules state. *
> 
> I don't think it was drug tested and I'm not sure who bought the bird but someone said in was sold to someone in Mexico.
> 
> Most people have never seen a performance like this before and I'm sure most will never see it again . If you're wanted to know the breeding I think its a Van Loon x Klaas.


I guess I read right over that.


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm sure its the club's fault to not take action in the first place. Maybe they all could be in this as one. From what I've been seeing on other forums, most of the members are close relative so no one wants to take action. Or is it part of business so he can sell.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

What he was suspected of doing was duplicating the chip! The AU has been left with the hands in the air Ken Easly is who originally owned the bird, He purchasd the parents from alfonz klass Along with a whole boat load of birds and is said to have spent atleast 200k on Birds from alfonz after he won the million.

It doesn't stop here. The bird is back at Kens place and he s threatening to Sue The AU if they disqaulify the bird. of course he would.

When people showed up to view the bird during a race it happend to trap 140th that day.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

High Flier said:


> I'm sure its the club's fault to not take action in the first place. Maybe they all could be in this as one. From what I've been seeing on other forums, most of the members are close relative so no one wants to take action. Or is it part of business so he can sell.


Three people from that club made complaints to the AU. The Club consists of a group of Hmongs only


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## Relentless (Oct 16, 2013)

Looking into what benson1 said:

Interesting to note that the Heartland President is Gary Hegner, he is also VP of the united club! (http://unitedracingpigeonclub.com/About URPC) This whole thing stinks more by the minute.

Ken Easley apparently does have the bird and at least it's father as they're posted on his site. (http://www.keneasleyracingpigeons.com/) 

Lately I've heard that Money wouldn't allow anyone to watch his birds arrive from the last 300, this same race was the United Clubs band race as well. Why not let the breeders watch their birds come home? Why not clamor to have witnesses to such a great bird?

I think there is plenty of reasonable doubt, and it should be investigated; especially due to the national consequences.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

When a pigeon flyer does NOT want anyone to see his birds home from a race,especially when a certain pigeons results are in question,that pigeon flyer should be barred from competition,untill he lets people see returning race birds....If he still insists,he would NO LONGER be able to race with the club/combine....I have allways offered people to come and watch my birds home from a race...I have had at least one member of our club,be at my loft on race day,many,many times...I welcome the company,especially since my loft IS NOT at my home...(No Room),and a city code that there can`t be a pigeon loft within 200 feet of another dwelling....So my loft NOW is 1 mile from my house...Used to be 6 miles,untill I flound this great location...I pay RENT of $50 per month...Well worth it for me....Alamo

*PS:When someone has NOTHING to hide,he/she will let you do anything you like,to confirn or reject your suspicions !!*


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

What Relentless said seems true. From what I've seen, I think money's loft didn't let anyone to his loft the whole season. His this why this super pigeon is so fast ahead the other birds?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Relentless said:


> Looking into what benson1 said:
> 
> Interesting to note that the Heartland President is Gary Hegner, he is also VP of the united club! (http://unitedracingpigeonclub.com/About URPC) This whole thing stinks more by the minute.
> 
> ...


I was looking at the results club page you posted a link to and wow to win average speed in a 7 race season by 4 hours is crazy. I can see if there was a smash race or something but not with the races they had they were all normal races with the birds coming in close together except for that one super champion pigeon.


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

benson1 said:


> Three people from that club made complaints to the AU. The Club consists of a group of Hmongs only


this dude is a idiot. So what if there ALL ASAINNNN
MY CLUB IS ALL WHITE SO WHAT DOES THAT MATTER


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## Relentless (Oct 16, 2013)

This will probably be the last update I'll have on the topic. I have heard as well that the theory is that a duplicate chip may have been used.

Looking into the possibility, it seems that using a duplicate chip would be pretty easy to do with the old Benzing BR chips (feel free to check out youtube for video on how a rfid cloner works).

In short, the BR chips use a RFID technology that is read only, that is when the bird is registered, the band only transmits the code on the chip. Which is actually extremely insecure as the transmitted data is never changing, and thus can be easily duplicated. For anyone with any techical background, access to it, or some spare cash (you can buy one on ebay for under $200) it's pretty easy to do. Case in point how insecure it is, credit card companies bragged up the pay wave feature (RFID), now its no longer offered... The siegel's site even says that the BR chips will no longer be supported by benzing equipment starting Jan 1, 2015. I've seen forums where people state that Ed told them the BR chips had security issues. Why else would the BR chips be suddenly discontinued? 

The new PRO chips are based on a read/write process. There is still the same static chip code, but there is a portion that is programmed with a unique code at the time of basketing. Therfore it makes it much more difficult to clone the RFID signal (as it would have to be cloned between registering and basketing). So in short, the new PRO chips are much more secure, and should be sufficient for racing in my opinion. 

Back to 604. If one had a cloner and used BR chips, all they have to do is program a writable RFID card/chip to transmit the same code. Viola, you can clock the bird whenever you like. If there are witnesses present, you just don't clock the bird, and the bird clocks when it arrives as it should. With no witnesses it's basically impossible to prove, the perfect crime. In 604's case, rumors are when witnesses showed up, the bird clocked at a normal time, when no witnesses, the bird showed up up to an hour ahead. One example, from 100 miles, was flown into a headwind (and 604 mananged about 64 MPH in the process...), quite unlikely for Minnesota I hear, I'm told the winning speeds on calm days average 42-44 MPH. If this is what was done, then it would be basically impossible to prove by simple investigation. 

Back to the BR chips. The AU has been informed of this and has known about the security issue with the BR chips for some time (reports are that they won't act as to not make it difficult on the clock manufactorer's). Siegel's and Benzing have known about the issue as well, though they've been pretty quiet about it. As for the other electronic clocking units, I'm not sure what RFID technology they use, but if it uses read/write technology, it should be reasonably secure.

Part of the reason I'm writing this is that for the National Organization to knowingly allow insecure chips to be used is appalling. The main reason that I'm writing about this is that the AU, Benzing, & Siegel's arn't doing anything about it immediatly. Might as well let everyone in on the dirty secret, then everyone could utilize the method, that may well actually cause action to occur. My advice to clubs and combines, ban the BR chips immediately and any chips that use read only RFID technology. Also, if a bird pulls off seemingly impossible results like this one, you simply check the chip, and if a BR chip is used switch to a PRO chip. Also, you could provide and require the flyer to utilize a manual clock in conjunction as well.

I'm hope this sparks some much needed discussion!


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Any sport that equals big $$= Cheating at times.What a shame.Greed.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm doubting the guy that bought this bird for $75,000 is going to get that money back with all the controversy surrounding this bird.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Anyone who pays that much for a bird and doesn't question the results or bother to research the authenticity of them more doesn't have any Common Sense in my opinion,or any Pigeon Sense.But they do have Deep Pockets.Who bought the bird and who owns it now?


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that this bird has not been sold. There is some type of arrangement between the flyer and the man who now has the bird. The bird is currently listed as one of the breeder cocks on the web site of the breeder merchant who is in possession of the bird?


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## yengky (Nov 23, 2005)

benson1 said:


> Three people from that club made complaints to the AU. The Club consists of a group of Hmongs only


Wrong. The club is not made up of all Hmong members only, it consists of mostly Hmong members, but not all Hmong. And like someone pointed out, why does ethnicity matter in this situation??? Anyone can cheat.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

fadedracer said:


> this dude is a idiot. So what if there ALL ASAINNNN
> MY CLUB IS ALL WHITE SO WHAT DOES THAT MATTER


Calling someone an Idiot when you can't spell a common word! LOL


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

yengky said:


> Wrong. The club is not made up of all Hmong members only, it consists of mostly Hmong members, but not all Hmong. And like someone pointed out, why does ethnicity matter in this situation??? Anyone can cheat.


It does Matter when your a minority living in a mostly white mans country. Minoritys tend to band/stick together! The race secretary admitted that he is great friends with "money" of Money lofts! All though it was three Hmongs that made the complaint!

It was Ken Easley who originally sold the bird that has the bird back at his loft!


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

How did Easley end up with the bird from Money's Loft?


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Josepe said:


> How did Easley end up with the bird from Money's Loft?


I may not have the story quite right but I believe Ken raised the bird and either sold it or gave it to Money's loft. Never heard the sale details but when the bird had such success Money sent the bird back to Ken for safe keeping. Ken has the bird in his breeders catalog....looks like a real nice bird in the picture, grand son of his bird he calls Kon Bird. Think I heard the buyer was in Mexico?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

raftree3 said:


> I may not have the story quite right but I believe Ken raised the bird and either sold it or gave it to Money's loft. Never heard the sale details but when the bird had such success Money sent the bird back to Ken for safe keeping. Ken has the bird in his breeders catalog....looks like a real nice bird in the picture, grand son of his bird he calls Kon Bird. Think I heard the buyer was in Mexico?


I think I said that the buyer was in Mexico, which was a mistake, NM is where Ken lives. I think the whole deal has been between Ken Easley and Money all along and when the results turned out to be super they will split the sale of any babies off this bird. I heard Ken already has the parents of this bird too. This could be an old breeder trick to send out birds and when one or two does real well ( wink, wink) they get them back to show others how well their birds do in races so they can sell babies for high dollars, only they don't show anyone all the crappy results they had, just the top one.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

IMHO i think some people are in it for the money , trying to score big, make a living out of it and hoping to get rich fast.. Thus it leads to cheating and ripping off people.. money causes people to cheat and lie... so u must be smart about ur source...


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I am glad that I just compete in OLR's, and avoid this sort of situation.....but I do a substantial amount of research before I decide which OLR to enter. After all, there are people which lack in the integrity area in all walks of life. Just my opinion.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

No offense to anyone here,but I trust a Pigeon flyer,before I trust a OLR mgr....A pigeon guy flying my convention birds,will do everything possible to get ALL his birds ready for the big race....Can`t say that a OLR mgr will do the same for my birds...My name is NOT Ganus,or Bieche,or Presto,or whomever has a name that is well know in this sport....The OLR guy wants the big guys birds to do well...Why ?? Because other big shot guys will send their birds also to the race...Without the big money guys,a OLR will never get anywhere...Yes,you do need the small guys,because you need their money to pay the big guys.....Not the other way around....It seems to me that the loft mgr knows what birds belong to old Mike Ganus,and the other big shots....They handle those birds looking to see if they are in top form....Can`t say they would worry about my birds the same way...Alamo


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## fadedracer (Jul 8, 2011)

benson1 said:


> It does Matter when your a minority living in a mostly white mans country. Minoritys tend to band/stick together! The race secretary admitted that he is great friends with "money" of Money lofts! All though it was three Hmongs that made the complaint!
> 
> It was Ken Easley who originally sold the bird that has the bird back at his loft!


dude shut up. Im Asian and i fly in a all white club. And i never win should i think that all the white people are screwing me over. this benson dude needs to shut up...oh yeah white people only stick with white people only. Damn racist ass idiot. its because of people like you why this world sucks.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I wish the racial stuff could be nipped in the bud! I am old, have conservative values, of European decent, and I do discriminate. I do not discriminate based on skin pigment or ethnicity, but if one is lazy, a loud mouthed fool, not motivated to get an education and a job then I consider that person to be of little value.
In my experience most of the people of Hmong heritage are motivated to obtain a good education and a good job. They are motivated to excel in whatever they may do.
There are bad actors in every community, but most people are good upright citizens. It is unfortunate when the few bad actors are mistakenly assumed to be an indication of the integrity of the community at large.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Fadedracer......I`m with you 100%.....As a matter of fact,I didn`t even know what that word meant....I thought it was miss typed,and I couldn`t figure out what the guy wanted to say/write....A person is a person,man or women....A pigeon flyer,man or woman,should be talked about as a pigeon flyer ONLY....His or her race or any other personal beliefs,should be kepted out of the conversation...Money Loft to me is just another pigeon flyer....Whether he cheated or not,IS the issue...Not his race !! I could care less about that...What concerns me most,is that the results are either legit or not for the said pigeon...I`m not buying any pigeons from Money,or the guy who has him...It doesn`t effect my wallet...But I don`t want any innocent pigeon guy,who might buy a YB off the said pigeon,to throw his money away for a dawg of a pigeon...If that is what happens to be a real fact later on.....Alamo


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

For any of you who are familiar with or were involved with things in Viet Nam and Laos in the 60s and 70s, you're familiar with the Hmong people. I'm proud to say I knew some Hmong but that was in another life. They have been persecuted and we owe them some gratitude.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

raftree3 said:


> For any of you who are familiar with or were involved with things in Viet Nam and Laos in the 60s and 70s, you're familiar with the Hmong people. I'm proud to say I knew some Hmong but that was in another life. They have been persecuted and we owe them some gratitude.


The same goes for me!!!


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

raftree3 said:


> For any of you who are familiar with or were involved with things in Viet Nam and Laos in the 60s and 70s, you're familiar with the Hmong people. I'm proud to say I knew some Hmong but that was in another life. They have been persecuted and we owe them some gratitude.


Don't you know the government said we were never in Laos?  Except for the guy who lives across the street from me and my Mother in Law's Boyfriend. They must have been the only two.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

When Someone showed up to watch, It trapped 140th that day!


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

fadedracer said:


> dude shut up. Im Asian and i fly in a all white club. And i never win should i think that all the white people are screwing me over. this benson dude needs to shut up...oh yeah white people only stick with white people only. Damn racist ass idiot. its because of people like you why this world sucks.


First off, I never made a racist comment!!! Show me! Secondly by saying Hmong stick together is bad or racist? I think that is a good thing! 

Like I said in an early statement! Atleast three "HMONG" In that club that made a complaint to the AU! I would say this United club has a few honest people in it!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Quote...."When someone showed up to watch,the bird trapped 140th that day"....
*My guess is.....The bird is "Bashful"*
Alamo


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Alamo said:


> No offense to anyone here,but I trust a Pigeon flyer,before I trust a OLR mgr....A pigeon guy flying my convention birds,will do everything possible to get ALL his birds ready for the big race....Can`t say that a OLR mgr will do the same for my birds...My name is NOT Ganus,or Bieche,or Presto,or whomever has a name that is well know in this sport....The OLR guy wants the big guys birds to do well...Why ?? Because other big shot guys will send their birds also to the race...Without the big money guys,a OLR will never get anywhere...Yes,you do need the small guys,because you need their money to pay the big guys.....Not the other way around....It seems to me that the loft mgr knows what birds belong to old Mike Ganus,and the other big shots....They handle those birds looking to see if they are in top form....Can`t say they would worry about my birds the same way...Alamo


No offense, but the OLR I enter is ran by a person whom I have gotten to know over the last couple of years, and his integrity is impeccable. You could not meet a more honest person. And as far as the other OLR events, I have it from a "*VERY RELIABLE*" source some of the funny business which goes on with a few of the events, and I will have nothing to to with them!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

BBCDON.......Agree there are a few who will give your birds a good shake....But there are many that don`t....Glad to hear you found a good one buddy....Alamo


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

bbcdon said:


> No offense, but the OLR I enter is ran by a person whom I have gotten to know over the last couple of years, and his integrity is impeccable. You could not meet a more honest person. And as far as the other OLR events, I have it from a "*VERY RELIABLE*" source some of the funny business which goes on with a few of the events, and I will have nothing to to with them!


Which one(s) do you like to enter?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kastle Loft said:


> Which one(s) do you like to enter?


I highly recommend the *"SIERRA RANCH CLASSIC"*, ran by Steve Sterchi, who lives in Grass Valley, CA. Another race which is highly recommended to me by a close friend of mine is the *"CALIFORNIA CLASSIC"*, ran by John Timmerman, who lives in Jamul, CA.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

bbcdon said:


> I am glad that I just compete in OLR's, and avoid this sort of situation.....but I do a substantial amount of research before I decide which OLR to enter. After all, there are people which lack in the integrity area in all walks of life. Just my opinion.


You have a point but after thinking about you statement for a few day I realized just how much your missing out on when it comes to just sending birds to OLR's. You never get the thrill when your birds home from a toss or the first sighting of a bird or bird's on race day making that victory lap around the yard before dropping to the landing board and seeing them trap and that beep of the clock knowing by the lack of phone calls from your club mates that you have the first bird of the day. Ya , I guess I can put up with a little politics and stuff in exchange for the good things that come with racing Pigeons from your own home.

P.S. Thanks for the tip on your favorite OLR's.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

ERIC K said:


> You have a point but after thinking about you statement for a few day I realized just how much your missing out on when it comes to just sending birds to OLR's. You never get the thrill when your birds home from a toss or the first sighting of a bird or bird's on race day making that victory lap around the yard before dropping to the landing board and seeing them trap and that beep of the clock knowing by the lack of phone calls from your club mates that you have the first bird of the day. Ya , I guess I can put up with a little politics and stuff in exchange for the good things that come with racing Pigeons from your own home.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for the tip on your favorite OLR's.


You are rite about watching them arrive home, but my health issues and work schedule are the reasons that it is not a feasible option for me. But I do thank you!


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## Relentless (Oct 16, 2013)

*Here we go again....*

https://www.facebook.com/groups/346060098814670/

It appears that the breeder of 604 is in the middle of another controversy, for winning by an unbelievable margin again.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

If this is the race your talking about Relentless , it look pretty normal to me. Plus this is the only race he has placed first in that I know about.

WinSpeed-20 Twin City Concourse 08/12/14-11:03
Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1
Open and Junior Category
Name: 1418 100 CLASSIC Young Bird Race Flown: 08/09/2014
Released: 08:30 Birds: 149 Lofts: 31 Station: NORTHWOOD GPS
Weather (Rel) P CLOUDY, SE 74, 65 degrees (Arr) P SUNNY, SE 10, 80 degrees
Race Secretary Paul Rudolph

POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT
1 0.67 MONEY LOFT 1664 AU 14 GOLD BB C 2 10:26:46 103 00.00 1559.801 15
2 1.34 K T LOFT 1166 AU 14 GOLD BBAR C 5 10:32:56 109 00.17 1556.124 10
3 2.01 K T LOFT 1698 AU 14 GOLD BBAR C 3 10:32:56 2 00.17 1556.124 10
4 2.68 MONEY LOFT 905 AU 14 TC BB C 5 10:27:07 2 00.20 1555.162 10
5 3.36 IGGYS 1584 AU 14 GOLD BBAR C 4 10:24:26 101 00.22 1554.709 10
6 4.03 MONEY LOFT 1671 AU 14 GOLD BC C 1 10:27:10 3 00.23 1554.543 15
7 4.70 IGGYS 1612 AU 14 GOLD BBAR C 5 10:24:27 2 00.23 1554.483 10
8 5.37 K T LOFT 1167 AU 14 GOLD BP C 2 10:33:04 3 00.25 1554.438 15
9 6.04 MONEY LOFT 1667 AU 14 GOLD BC C 4 10:27:17 4 00.30 1553.018 10
10 6.71 IGGYS 1583 AU 14 GOLD BBAR C 3 10:24:35 3 00.31 1552.674 10
11 7.38 LUCKY VANG 1147 AU 14 GOLD BBAR H 4 10:30:59 107 00.37 1551.732 10
12 8.05 LUCKY VANG 1149 AU 14 GOLD BBAR H 1 10:31:01 2 00.39 1551.304 15
13 8.72 ROGER GOLDBE 1508 AU 14 GOLD DC C 1 10:26:56 103 00.56 1547.277 15
14 9.40 JOHN RAMUS 201 AU 14 TC DCP C 0 10:27:02 103 01.09 1544.387 5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Relentless (Oct 16, 2013)

Not that one, its the twin city concourse second 150 open race. Apparently they DQ'd his first bird. PigeonCentral has had several discussions on it, most have been deleted because people are getting pretty worked up about it. Sounds like the bird was at least an hour out front.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The winning NON-disqualified pigeon made 936 YPM....*The disqualified pigeon made around 1148 ypm.*..This is a SMASH race,and anything is possible....Could a pigeon get out front by an hour,in a smash race ?? Yes it could...Even in a 150M YB race ?? Possibly !! Could the pigeon been released an hour early by the liberator,or even escaped while watering ?? Possibly !!
*It is more likely that a pigeon could get out in front, by an hour or more in a smash race,then a fast race on a very tail wind day*....Alamo


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Alamo said:


> The winning NON-disqualified pigeon made 936 YPM....*The disqualified pigeon made around 1148 ypm.*..This is a SMASH race,and anything is possible....Could a pigeon get out front by an hour,in a smash race ?? Yes it could...Even in a 150M YB race ?? Possibly !! Could the pigeon been released an hour early by the liberator,or even escaped while watering ?? Possibly !!
> *It is more likely that a pigeon could get out in front, by an hour or more in a smash race,then a fast race on a very tail wind day*....Alamo


Alamo I agree the results in your post are possible in a smash race but after that bird from last year that was making 1700 and 1800 speeds in races where the rest for the birds pretty much came together and only made 1200 and 1300 it makes ppl skeptical.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Oddly, I have no opinion on this subject.
EXCEPT...... I do believe that the Club, and Combine/federation Some how failed in its responsibility to Check for unusual, and almost unbelievable Performance. 
Of coarse if it were my Bird it would be Right on! LOL!


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