# Hawk Frustration



## asalas (Aug 4, 2012)

I know pigeons are just part of the food chain, but loosing a bird evertime I fly them is no fun. I have tried releasing at different times, locking up for periods of time, with no luck. I heard those reflector balls, hawk eyes, and fake hawks do not work.

I am fairly new to the hobby. I started with Birm Tumblers and those got gobbled up quickly. I changed to the white racers and am losing a bird every release. I like the all white pigeons, but now thinking that may be my problem. (high visability for the hawks?)
Should i change breeds that stand a better chance? Regular racing pigeon colors?

Any suggestions? Should I retire from the hobby/sport? Is there hope?


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

In different areas of the country Hawks are a big problem and in many areas the hawks increase from fall to spring. Thanks to our goverment. The hawks are really increasing in numbers while there natural food supply has dwindled. It should come to where they are needed to be controled. But good luck with that. NOW some people lock there birds down whewn hawk season is there. Others adjust there flying times to reduce hawk attacks. AND the birds should and more likely MUST be trapp trained well. And flown hungry to attract them back in the loft. As loft sitting means a hawk meal Rollers and such a easy hawk bait White race birds Well to me are no more a target then a colored bird. Race birds circle there loft area and can be seen for miles And the hwak moves in. Then the hawks also remember there is a meal there so they return. When the birds are up flying they are a harder target. I found morning release about 10 am and evening release about 5 pm helped me in the past Because the hawks had found a meal so less would show up. And if you look good and notice other birds scattering before you release then chances are a hawk is near. Wish there was a answer but there is not until the goverment relizes they can not over protect one and reduce others which the hawks have done.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

We are travelling in the same boat asalas... Older members know it. More than half of my high flyers have been wiped out. The things you stated above,I've tried each, with some temporarily relief.

Keeping the birds in good shape might help so that they have energy to out smart and out run those bloody winged beasts.
Have you tried blue bar racers? Do hawks get fooled by them thinking them to be ferals?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

asalas said:


> I know pigeons are just part of the food chain, but loosing a bird evertime I fly them is no fun. I have tried releasing at different times, locking up for periods of time, with no luck. I heard those reflector balls, hawk eyes, and fake hawks do not work.
> 
> I am fairly new to the hobby. I started with Birm Tumblers and those got gobbled up quickly. I changed to the white racers and am losing a bird every release. I like the all white pigeons, but now thinking that may be my problem. (high visability for the hawks?)
> Should i change breeds that stand a better chance? Regular racing pigeon colors?
> ...



The only solution is to lock the birds in. for how many weeks I don't know but If I had a problem like that they would be in for a month or more. the hawk has learned your patterns and they were not locked in for long enough for the hawk to quit on the food source. If your hawk population in fall/winter is that bad I would lock the birds up for winter and start again in the late spring and make your release times unpredictable.


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## asalas (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for the tips all. I will put the loft in lock down for a while.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You can color your birds with outrageous colors to scare hawks.

Have you heard about encampadissa pigeons which are known to evade hawks? You might wanna try those so that hawks think these pigeons are sour grapes.

There are also some wistles available that can be mounted on pigeons back that make sounds that scare hawks when they approach them


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Back in the 80s I used to have garden fantails out 24/7 and lost maybe one a year. In any case, some claim flying type oriental rollers will easily outfly the hawks. Also flying type Catalonian tumblers. I have heard of some flying these prior to letting out thier other birds as the hawks get frustrated with them and give up chasing the pigeons. I don't have any personal experience with either of these breeds and our little loft of frillbacks are on lockdown. Alan bliven (Flying Circus Lofts) raises these and may have more information for you.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

I have the same problem here, and more ...

yesterday a hawk took one of my pigeons, seaguls int the other hand chase them like crazy I don't know how they catch pigeons but they do, they eat the crop area and other organs and leave the rest of the pigeon.I personally don't lock down my pigeons, as the hawk attacks are rare and my pigeons generally do a good job evading them ...

my friend painted his flock with red & he said he lost more


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Red is the color of blood so...
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=co...a=X&ei=o_14UtrQDc7rrAey3YDoDg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Birds of prey are sadly, part of the hobby of pigeon keeping.

There are things that you can do to slow them down a bit. But they will adjust to any and all measures you take to try and prevent them from getting your birds.

Unless you keep your birds locked up 24/7. Which is not something I can or want to do. For what is the reason for keeping pigeons in the first place, if you can't enjoy them out and about, or racing.

No matter what you do. Changing times of day your birds are let out. Hanging old CD's. Putting up plastic owls. Aiming beams of laser light at the hawks. Shooting fireworks at the hawks. Playing a recording of an owl. Letting Catalonians out to frustrate the hawks, before you let out your homers. etc., etc.

No matter what you do, the birds of prey will adjust.

They have to, to survive.

Last week, I had my birds out late in the day. Hoping the hawks had already eaten for the day. I was in the kitchen and looked out my window, just checking on my birds. I happened to look out at the exact time a hawk was flying directly away from me. Carrying one of my pigeons underneath it. Both birds pointing in the same direction. It sort of looked like two planes flying one above and one below.

Although I could not see the face of my pigeon. I just sensed how hopeless it felt. I ran out my back door, trying to see where the hawk went. Because I was going to chase it down if possible, and not let it reap its reward of eating my poor pigeon alive.

But once I got outside, the hawk and pigeon were no where around. I could not find them.

It is one thing to come up missing one of my pigeons. But it is an entirely different matter, seeing one of mine, being carried away to be eaten alive. I have had day time and night time visions of my poor bird being carried away. Basically helpless.

I have lost many birds in the past. But seeing it happen and being so helpless to rescue my bird, is bothering me sooo much.

I wish it would have just come up missing. Instead of me having witnessed it being carried away.

I know that it is just nature. But I ask again. Why did a God make a planet whereupon things eat each other? Why is nature, so violent? If there is life on other planets (and surely there must be). Is every planet like this?

So sad. But it is what it is.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> Red is the color of blood so...
> http://www.google.co.in/search?q=co...a=X&ei=o_14UtrQDc7rrAey3YDoDg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ


I don't understand your point?


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## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

I have to agree that hawks will adjust to these type of measures. I will say though that I feel for ME one thing that definitely helped was not letting my birds fly until the later part of the evening. Its far from a risk free plan but it did help me as I have only lost 2 birds to hawks in 18 months and they fly everyday. I too have noticed that the hawks like to pluck pigeons from roof tops. That's how I lost my first bird back when I used to let them out during the day. After that I would still let them out during the day but I would literally stand outside with them and watch them . Eventually the hawk adjusted to my presence and literally grabbed one of my birds less than 4 feet away from where I was standing. Since then I started letting the birds out around an hour before dark. So far so good.... I live in NJ and the hawks are HORRIBLE here in the fall but in the spring and summer they have a lot more 'natural' food sources and don't pose a FRACTION of as much of a problem.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

My conversation with one of my pigeon seller....

Me: Do you have any hawk problems around here because you have so many pigeons, chickens, and ducks around?

Him: No, I have two loaded shotguns.

Lol, greatest response ever....


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

conditionfreak said:


> I don't understand your point?


Red is color of the blood so hawks are likely to be attracted towards it,thinking the pigeon to be already injured,incapable of evading the attack.

http://www.google.co.in/search?q=col...ed=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
This link shows pics of pigeons that are colored to scare hawks away thinking them to be alien birds.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

nature is nature But it gives me a heartach seeing a pigeon being ripped off and eaten alive by a hawk.

I find it suprizing that my friend's pigeons were victimes of those brutale air attacks by hawks when he finally somehow catched that hawk he decided to keep him


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## Junaid Ahmed Shawon (Sep 27, 2013)

In our country there is no feral pigeon though many people have pet pigeons. Hawks are very rare animal there only living in forests. If people see feral pigeon/hawks they might make dinner with them if they can catch them. Most people havin pet pigeons eat/sell extra squabs as meat. That doesn't mean they don't love their pigeons. Its a some kind of love of poor people that western people can't imagine


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## jasim786 (Oct 27, 2013)

If a pigeon is infected with PMV, and is eaten by a HAWK.... do they get PMV to?


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## Coconut (Oct 20, 2013)

conditionfreak said:


> I know that it is just nature. But I ask again. Why did a God make a planet whereupon things eat each other? Why is nature, so violent? If there is life on other planets (and surely there must be). Is every planet like this?
> 
> So sad. But it is what it is.


I agree. People say 'Isn't nature beautiful?' and I feel like saying 'Have you seen how animals eat each other?!'

I'm sorry to hear about your poor pigeon. It would be nice to think that there is a planet populated by vegetarian animals!


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

Sorry but I completely disagree. The multitude of creatures we have roaming our planet exist ONLY because they form an integral part of an interwoven and complex food chain.

A planet with vegetarian animals will not only collapse because of over population of herbivors but be boring and probably all look the same.

Birds would not have evolved the ability to fly. And pigeons would not exist. Neither would dogs or cats. Horses would have no need for speed and agility. The world would be populated by creatures who have no ability or purpose beyond eating.

I understand your frustration. But I also envy you. You get to see such beautiful creatures. I love birds of prey, but the abusive and illegal over hunting in my country means that we have nearly no birds that live here permanently. And any birds who dare venture over our country don't survive the night because they are all shot down. 

I can assure you, it is a sad sad world to live in when the only birds in the sky are urban pigeons and sparrows


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## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

I have to agree. Although pigeons are a favorite for some, as animal lovers we have to understand and appreciate all animals in regards to their biology. Ive lost birds to hawks and trust me my pigeons are considered pets to me. They all have names and Im attached to them very much, I know that if I keep them locked up that's the only way to make sure theyre 100% safe from hawks. Letting them out to fly is a risk that I, and other pigeon keepers take that unfortunately sometimes yields bad results. In this world we live in there is predator and prey and pigeons fall on the latter side : (


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Problem occurs when hawks/falcons catch domestic pigeons. They should feed on ferals instead to maintain the life web/ecology. Ferals have evolved themselves and they are so intelligent that when falcon comes they fly through the streets unlike stupid highflyers who go for the skies and face falcon head on. Try to act oversmart and fool around with him but end up getting ripped to pieces. Its heart pounding to see a hawk eating a pigeon alive by tearing a small piece at a time with pigeon suffering at every bite the hawk takes.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

jasim786 said:


> If a pigeon is infected with PMV, and is eaten by a HAWK.... do they get PMV to?


AvainPMV is not only found in pigeons but in chicken,turkey,fowls,doves,hawks etc also. A hawk may get infected by eating a pmv affected pigeon but that won't hurt the hawk. Pmv infects many domestic birds but its ability to infect and to cause disease varies from species to species. Pmv1 is unique to pigeons and can thrust havoc upon them but if a hawk is affected by it then hawk might never be diseased by it.


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## jasim786 (Oct 27, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> AvainPMV is not only found in pigeons but in chicken,turkey,fowls,doves,hawks etc also. A hawk may get infected by eating a pmv affected pigeon but that won't hurt the hawk. Pmv infects many domestic birds but its ability to infect and to cause disease varies from species to species. Pmv1 is unique to pigeons and can thrust havoc upon them but if a hawk is affected by it then hawk might never be diseased by it.


Oh ok, because one of my pigeons did get taken by a hawk, and that was the start of my PMV virus in my loft, funny enough never seen the hawk after that pigeon was taken... maybe his head got infected by PMV and he probably flew out different direct lol.


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## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

So here in New Jersey USA this time of year its been full fledge hawk catastrophe time. Lately things have calmed down a bit....the birds had been locked up for a little while so recently I let my two german owls and my lahore X out and they sat on the roof of the loft and pecked around on the ground with the chickens a little bit. They flew from the hutch loft roof, to the big loft roof a few times and hopped around the backyard a bit and that was it. I stayed with them the whole time and didnt see one hawk. I did this several more times with them and spotted no hawks at all. A few days later I let my homers out. Within minutes they completely attracted every hawk in a 10 mile radius because of the way they circle their loft right around the hawks flying level. Obviously there are lots of factors here I just never realized how much protection all the woods and tree cover actually give the 'non flyers'.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tree cover can work in favour or against pigeons.
When falcon sometimes chase my birds they like fall out of the sky like stones with falcons on their trail,they make emergency landing and hide in trees/vegetation. Usually my pigeons don't land but when hit and scratched by a falcon,they land on trees/bushes and hide in there,stay there holding their breaths until falcon's gone

But like hawks know the spot where I keep pigeons or feed them then they could use the trees/vegetations as a cover to hide their approach.
Also trees could stand in the way when pigeons face an ambush attack and they need to fly in any direction that is needed to save their lives


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## newtopigeonsNJ (Mar 14, 2013)

yes I can see what you mean. Luckily with my property and the location of the trees etc it works in their favor. Plus having the chickens is good because theyre AMAZING hawk spotters and the pigeons have learned to take their cue from them if theyre both out at the same time. Like I said the homers attract every hawk in the county by circling around and around the loft basically saying " Free Meal Here! "


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

hawks are part of the game now unfortunately , just this morning I witnessed one carry one of my birds awy to its death, hard to watch but what can u do ,.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

So true. Let only two homers out (one black and one white) within 5 minutes.. routed and routed, then coopers hawk attacked midair. 

Living in woodland areas, (where falcons are rarely present) tree coverage is one of the most dangerous spots for pigeons. Indeed they do shelter the pigeons to some extent but, when you have sneaky and sly hawks like coopers, red-tailed, sharp-shinned, and red shouldered's that fly so swiftly through trees like its nothing... it feels like horror every time they attack. Also younger birds that are just getting use to the loft would get lost badly after the attack since all the coverage is covering their site from above. 

Yet I would hate to have falcons attacking from thin air. 

I guess both locations of desert like and forest like have their benefits.


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