# Nest on porch with 2 eggs . . .



## tmkwv2

My wife and I found a nest on our porch two weeks ago. We noticed pigeons flocking on our porch for a few days before we found the eggs. We think there were actually 3 eggs, but our dog got to one before we found the nest. However, for the past two weeks the parents have been sitting faithfully on the nest, however, last night (Friday, March 14th) we noticed that the parents were not on the nest and as of now (Saturday, March 15th) they have not returned. However, I noticed that one of the eggs has some bumps on it. (it was smooth before, but now has the bumps) Is there anything we should do? We have not gone outside since we found the eggs, we have been watching through our window. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks


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## Charis

If the eggs are hatching, the chicks will die if left outside without the protection of the parents. You have the choice of intervening.


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## tmkwv2

Should I check to see if the eggs are actually fertilized? The parents were very attentative up until day 14 and now have disappeared. If the eggs were not fertilized, would they know and eventually stop tending to them?


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## Charis

Sure. Go ahead and check.


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## Vasp

Colder than average temperatures, unless extreme, will not always kill an embryo or hatching chick, but hot temperatures almost certainly will, within minutes. Hatching birds can often be left unattended and still hatch fine--there are tons of "miracle" stories in which an egg that has been abandoned for days on the ground miraculously turns into a baby bird.

Here you will find images of a candled dove egg in the early days of incubation.

Here are some pictures of my own of pigeon eggs just 3 or so days from hatching.

















With a good flash light in a dark room, the veins should be prominent along the air cell, even in a well-developed egg. If there are no veins present, give the eggs some time... But they may not be viable. If a ring appears, the embryo moves along with the egg when you shake it, foreign objects can be seen floating in the egg upon candling, the egg turns an odd color, oozes a liquid or smells foul, you know the embryo has died. Movement is a plus but immediately before the internal pip and very early in the incubation process, movement is not present.

I would also be very interested in seeing what these "bumps" are. They seem to have come on very quickly so _my_ guess is that the eggs are hatching and will likely continue to hatch if you take them in ASAP! Though egg shell abnormalities such as coloring or texture changes may occur in rotten eggs, they take a while to appear. Take these eggs in immediately and observe them, and please do take pictures.


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## tmkwv2

Here's the update: As of Sunday Morning, the parents have yet to return. We live in South Florida so the temp is pretty moderate. In the 70's and 80's. I checked the eggs to see what the bumps were and they are actually small cracks looking like they are trying to break through. I actually felt some movement and immediately returned them. We have to leave now, but will be back in a few hours. Should I keep them outside or should we bring them in? What do we do once they hatch?

I will get pictures soon!


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## Birdmom4ever

It does sound as if the eggs are hatching. If the parents still have not returned (and it's not normal for them to abandon eggs that are that close to hatching) you will need to bring the eggs in and keep them warm. A heating pad set on low covered with a towel will work. Feeding infant pigeons from day one isn't easy, but it has been done. I don't have any knowledge of Florida's geography, but perhaps one of our Florida members is close enough to be of some assistance...will PM them.


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## Birdmom4ever

*Abandoned eggs*

If you haven't already, please check out this thread in the Resources section of this forum...

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=4968


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## Birdmom4ever

Some feeding methods:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682


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## Reti

I am in Miami, Fl. If you are anywhere close to me give me a call at 305-374-3525. I will be gone most of the day but will be back after 7pm.

Reti


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## Skyeking

I live in Palm Bay, if you are close to me, please send me a PM, and I will check it later.


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## Vasp

Taking the eggs in is definitely in call. As has been stated, pigeons don't normally just abandon their babies, and it's been quite a long time. Maybe for a few minutes, at the most a few hours, but never for a day or more. Please take the eggs inside. 

A very quick set up is just to take a plastic container of whatever size and, using a goose-neck lamp, hang the light just over the eggs. What I'd be most worried about is overheating them at this point, so make sure it's quite a distance away.

Here is the temperatures you need to know:

Hatching temp. for eggs in a still-air environment
(meaning that you don't have a fan to circulate the warm air, so in most home-made incubators such as a box with a light in it, it is still-air)
100-102 degrees F. Try to keep it around there and the babies will do fine.

What concerns me is the lack of humidity also. If you have a hydrometer to tell you what the humidity is, try to get it to around 60% for hatching. Just place a warm, moist cloth or a few sponges in the box with the eggs to bring the humidity up.

The parents are not coming back, so unless you can find someone knowledgeable who's willing to hand-feed the babies, it's going to be up to you. If you live within a close vicinity of some of the members here, I know the babies would be in good hands. Newborn pigeons must be fed small, diluted amounts of a good hand-feeding formula made specifically for granivorous baby birds, such as Kaytee Exact, Zupreme Embrace, Lafeber Nutri-Start, Hagen Tropican, etc. Most of these can be purchased at pet stores such as PetSmart.

There are a lot of things to know about hand-feeding baby birds, especially newborns, such as the proper temperature for the hand-feeding formula, the proper preparation of the formula, the proper temperature of the brooder, and the functions of the "crop". If you plan to raise these babies you're going to need a food thermometer, preferably a digital one. This can be used to measure the temperature of the formula. Formula that is too hot can damage a bird's crop and formula that is too cold and cause crop slow-down. Cold food is not likely to be accepted as well, and will, over time, lead to the shut down of the digestive system, which is pretty severe.

Just so you know, in advance, and in case:
Food temperature: 102-107, no higher, not even by a degree. Very minimum is 100. A non-digital thermometer may be as far as 2 or 3 degrees off, which can cost you a bird's life.

Brooder temperature for newborns:
I've found that 90-95 degrees Fahrenheit is the best. A baby should feel quite warm to the touch, not intolerably hot, however. They should not feel at all cold. Adjust as necessary to keep the babies warm.

A good brooder, I find, is a container of any sort (for instance, a 5 or 10 gallon aquarium, a plastic storage bin, etc) with a heating pad on the _side_ of the container rather than the bottom. Lots of paper towels can be added to the bottom. Shred up a few of them to make a soft nest and to ensure the baby has better grip. Splayed leg can occur if a baby has poor grip on its surface.

If you have "Grip Mat", which can be purchased at any hardware store, it is a good way to keep a baby's feet underneath it, though it must be cleaned regularly. It's environmentally friendly, however, as you will soon find you're throwing out tons of paper towels, both at feeding times and in the brooder.

The purpose of the heating pad on the side of the brooder is that the baby is not stuck on the heat if it feels too hot. It can move closer or further away to the heat as needed. They usually know what they want, but a thermometer is your best bet. Get a heating pad that does not turn off after a certain amount of time and is safe with water--read the label carefully. You can probably purchase these at drug stores.


If you end up feeding these little ones and need more information I'm sure the others would be happy to give it. There are tons of methods to use for baby birds but I feel most comfortable with the "baby bottle nipple method" for newborns. Good luck.


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## tmkwv2

Update #2 

Egg 1 is almost hatched! We were not sure, but last night we heard some pecking fromt the inside of the egg and this morning it has made great progress. Egg 2 is starting the hatching process as well! Reti will help take the babies once they are hatched. I will post pictures when they are here. 

Thanks for your help!


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## Reti

That is so unusual that they are hatching considering they were abandoned by the parents. My Giacomo and Homer will be happy to raise those little ones.

Reti


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## Lovebirds

OH, this is so cool......Can't wait for pictures. Thank you Reti for offering to take these babies and thank you tmkwv2 for caring enough to find help for them. I sure hope their parents are ok, but it is very unusual for the eggs to be abandoned, so I'm thinking something must have happened to them.


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## Lovebirds

Reti said:


> That is so unusual that they are hatching considering they were abandoned by the parents. My Giacomo and Homer will be happy to raise those little ones.
> 
> Reti


Are your birds going to be able to give these babies crop milk?


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## Reti

Both of them secrete crop milk the minute they see a baby. They have raised so far a mourning dove four ringnecks and a couple of pigeon babies. The pigeon babies were three weeks old when they came in begging every adult for food. Homer fed them for another week. 
I am lucky to have those two, they are the best parents.


Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Bless you Tmkwv2 and Reti for helping these babies! It's amazing to me they are hatching after being abandoned, though I also have had eggs that got cold still hatch when I placed them under foster parents. Reti, I'm so glad you have those two as fosters for the little ones. I also have some really, _really_ good parents who will foster any babies they are given. It's always best when pigeons can raise them. They do a much better job than we humans can, despite our best efforts.


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## tmkwv2

Update 3: Baby 1 is now here!!! He was hatched at 1:50 pm and has already had his first meal. The second one is making progress as well. Reti will take over the project this evening! I will post pictures once I figure it out.

We are off to Reti's house!

Thanks for your help!


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## Charis

This is really amazing. Those babies are lucky to be in Florida. Most other parts of the country they wouldn't have survived. Got to wonder what happened to the mom and dad.


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## Reti

I was thinking too what might have happened to the parents. I hope they are alright.
They should be here any minute now. 

Reti


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## Reti

The baby and the egg are here and finally all settled. Giacomo wasn't too happy initially. I don't know why but when I gave her the baby she got up from the nest and left, then she was going back and forth for about 40 minutes sitting on the baby a bit then leaving again. She was very agitated. Finally now she is sitting on the baby and keeping it warm, she hasn't fed it yet, but I know she will soon, I keep on checking on them, which makes her nervous, but I am nervous too. Homer wasn't happy either.
Guess pigeons have their moods too.
I gave the egg to another couple so it won't be too hard on Gia and Homer with two babies.
Keep you fingers crossed that all goes well.

Reti


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## Lovebirds

Reti said:


> The baby and the egg are here and finally all settled. Giacomo wasn't too happy initially. I don't know why but when I gave her the baby she got up from the nest and left, then she was going back and forth for about 40 minutes sitting on the baby a bit then leaving again. She was very agitated. Finally now she is sitting on the baby and keeping it warm, she hasn't fed it yet, but I know she will soon, I keep on checking on them, which makes her nervous, but I am nervous too. Homer wasn't happy either.
> Guess pigeons have their moods too.
> I gave the egg to another couple so it won't be too hard on Gia and Homer with two babies.
> Keep you fingers crossed that all goes well.
> 
> Reti



Good luck with these little ones. I don't want to question your decision on what you are doing, because of course, I don't KNOW your birds. Have these two ever raised a baby from the egg? 
I could be wrong I guess, but there is a big difference I believe in a pair of birds raising a brand new baby and raising one that's 6 or 7 days old or older. At that age they CAN be fed seeds and do just fine. 
Pigeon fanciers are always so careful about switching eggs to pairs that laid around the same time, because we believe that pigeons can not "just produce" the crop milk. Sitting on eggs is what causes them to produce the milk. Of course ALL of them can regurgitate seeds if they are willing to do that and take a baby to raise. 
Of course, if this pair of birds has been sitting on a nest and/or eggs anyway, then everything should be ok, as long as they've been sitting long enough. 
Anyway............good luck. I know that no matter what happens with the pair of birds feeding, these tiny ones will be taken care of one way or the other.


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## Reti

They have been on the dummy eggs for about two weeks, but I gave them babies before 2-3 days old and up. They did fine always, but for some reason they weren't ready today. I am thinking I should feed the baby now, I don't think she fed it yet and I don't know if she will during the night, but at least she is keeping it warm by sitting on it. 

Reti


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## tmkwv2

As Reti stated, the babies are with her. Last I heard, the "foster" mother was sitting and keeping the baby warm, but Reti was still having to feed it every hour. We named the first one Boaz and the one that is still waiting to hatch Ruth. (of course we have no clue if they are male or female) Again, thanks to everyone who helped us along the way. Also, what are the chances we will have more pigeons laying eggs on our porch? Now that it has happened once, is it more common and if so how long would it be until it happens again?

Thanks!


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## Skyeking

tmkwv2 said:


> Again, thanks to everyone who helped us along the way. Also, what are the chances we will have more pigeons laying eggs on our porch? Now that it has happened once, is it more common and if so how long would it be until it happens again?
> 
> Thanks!


If you make it a "pigeon friendly" porch, others may come and lay eggs, so if you don't want them on the porch, don't leave seed out or planters or boxes, where they can lay eggs. Thanks again, for your concern over the babies and bringing them to Reti.


Reti, how is the baby and egg/baby this morning? Have Gia and Homer fed them yet?


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## Reti

*update*

I fed the baby up until midnight. Now I checked and baby Boaz has a nice full crop (plenty of poopies) and momma Gia is keeping the baby warm. She must have fed the baby as the crop is much fuller than I left it last night. So, all is well.
Egg Ruth did not hatch yet, hopefully today.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Glad to hear things are going better this morning, Reti. Love the names and I hope little Ruth makes it out of the egg today.


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## Reti

I tried to take some pics but they won't let me, they are very protective of the baby now, but I was able to touch it and the crop is full. I guess I should stop harrassing them, after all they are doing me a favour raising this baby for me Poor birds, what must be going through their little heads.
Good thing I have to go to work tonight, so they have some peace.

Reti


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## Skyeking

Reti said:


> I tried to take some pics but they won't let me, they are very protective of the baby now, but I was able to touch it and the crop is full. I guess I should stop harrassing them, after all they are doing me a favour raising this baby for me Poor birds, what must be going through their little heads.
> Good thing I have to go to work tonight, so they have some peace.
> 
> Reti


LOL  I do the same thing when an egg hatches to make sure the baby is getting fed, but I can imagine it is especially nerve wracking with an adoptive baby and egg. 

I'm sure Gia was just not ready yet, and needed time to get used to the baby. I hope she has plenty of crop milk!


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## Lovebirds

Trees Gray said:


> I'm sure Gia was just not ready yet, and needed time to get used to the baby. I hope she has plenty of crop milk!



Yea, I was glad to see that Gia excepted the baby. He WAS about a week early you know.....LOL. I'm sure all will be fine now. Look forward to pictures, but I wouldn't disturb them any more either. They just might say."you want to look at my baby????? YOU feed him then"


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## Maggie-NC

Reti, what a love you are.


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## tmkwv2

I am glad to know that Boaz is doing well. I have shown his picture to everyone at work and can't wait to see pictures as he grows. Reti, thanks for all your help. I am certain we would not have been able to care for him like you are.


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## Charis

Lady Tarheel said:


> Reti, what a love you are.


She's a good egg!


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## Reti

Lady Tarheel said:


> Reti, what a love you are.


Nah, not me, Gia is.

I couldn't help myself, I had to bother them again and take some pics, but Gia is calm now and she was ok with it she didn't tell me to feed the baby myself 


Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Very sweet! When I give my pigeons foster chicks I always refer to them as "babies from Heaven," since to the pigeons they appear suddenly, out of nowhere, as it were. They often act a little startled at first, but quickly settle down and feed their surprise babies. Hope all goes well.


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## Lovebirds

Looks good to me!! What has happened with the other egg?


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## Maggie-NC

Reti, you are a love in my book but I'll concede that Gia is too! Those pictures are great. The baby looks so tiny beside his foster mom and she looks so proud of him already and very protective. I know you love having a new baby in the house.


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## Skyeking

Great pictures! Gia looks like a wonderful mom, and I'm glad she is fine now.


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## Reti

Thank you Maggie.
Gia IS a proud mom, she is taking great care of the baby and so is Homer. Yes, indeed they are babies from heaven and I love to have a baby around, watching it grow.
Egg Ruth hasn't hatched as of this morning, I am not sure anymore it will. But FanFan and Chucky are sitting on it, we'll see by tonight.

Reti


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## Skyeking

Thanks for the update, Reti....hope you have a great day....and looking  forward to another update.


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## tmkwv2

Reti - Thank you for the updates. I am glad Gia, Homer and Boaz are a happy family. Don't lose hope on Ruth! I noticed Boaz's egg had cracks on Saturday (possibly even Friday Night) and he did not hatch until Monday afternoon. The cracks for Ruth did not start until Monday morning and I know that she was moving around in there and could see and hear her pecking. I hope she comes today! Thanks for all your are doing and for the updates!

Another interesting occurance: It was destiny that Reti took the babies. Last night, we had a terrible windstorm that knocked all the furniture around on our porch. Had the pigeons still been there with their parents, it woudl have destroyed their nest and could have killed the babies. All things work out for a purpose!


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## Birdmom4ever

tmkwv2 said:


> Reti - Thank you for the updates. I am glad Gia, Homer and Boaz are a happy family. Don't lose hope on Ruth! I noticed Boaz's egg had cracks on Saturday (possibly even Friday Night) and he did not hatch until Monday afternoon. The cracks for Ruth did not start until Monday morning and I know that she was moving around in there and could see and hear her pecking. I hope she comes today! Thanks for all your are doing and for the updates!
> 
> Another interesting occurance: It was destiny that Reti took the babies. Last night, we had a terrible windstorm that knocked all the furniture around on our porch. Had the pigeons still been there with their parents, it woudl have destroyed their nest and could have killed the babies. All things work out for a purpose!


Amazing...these must be very special babies.


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## Reti

Oh my, those are indeed miracle babies. How many lives do they have, that's amazing. Very special babies.
Sorry to hear about the mess on your balcony but glad you got the babies out on time. You and your wife went out of your way to save those little ones. Thank you so much.
I will go check in a minute on them again.

Reti


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## Margarret

Reti,

I just read through this thread. What a great save! Your Gia and Homer are awesome. You can tell by the look on her face that this is HER baby! Will check back to see if the other little one hatches out.

Margaret


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## Reti

Baby Boaz seems to be doing good, there are plenty of poopies, so he is eating and digesting, only I don't think he is growing much. He seems to me as tiny as two days ago. Maybe I am just a nervous grandma. I'll post some pics later.
Egg Ruth hasn't hatched yet.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

Reti said:


> Baby Boaz seems to be doing good, there are plenty of poopies, so he is eating and digesting, only I don't think he is growing much. He seems to me as tiny as two days ago. Maybe I am just a nervous grandma. I'll post some pics later.
> Egg Ruth hasn't hatched yet.
> 
> Reti


Hang in there, nervous grandma!  I hope all is going well and that Egg Ruth is now Baby Ruth (pretty clever, huh? Baby Ruth  )

Terry


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## tmkwv2

Hey Reti -

Just checking in and wanted to see how everything was going? Thank you again for all you are doing!! I am glad our babies are in good hands.


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## Reti

Baby Boaz is doing good, eating and pooping.
Egg Ruth hasn't hatched, I am loosing hope. I am working again tonight but will try to take some pics tomorrow of Boaz.

Reti


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## Vasp

I'm glad to see everything is going well... Depending on how much you feed a baby, it will grow at a different rate... My babies, Toad and Muffin, ate quite a lot quite often when they were young'ins... So they grew VERY fast. If you feed less they may take quite a while to get big, but it sounds like it's going good. 

You should candle Egg Ruth, and if there is no movement or sound, you should probably start to make a little hole in the air cell and see if the baby is alive... Assisted hatches are often successful...


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## tmkwv2

I know that on Monday Baby Ruth was alive because I could see her start making the hole in the egg. While Boaz was hatching I could see her shell cracking more and more. We could also hear her as well. I am surprised that she has not hatched by now, though.


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## Vasp

Definitely try an assisted hatch if possible...some babies hatch late and it might be due to the temp. but if you have to, assisted hatches are better than nothing.  but I'm sure you know that very well, Reti! you're very experienced!


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## Reti

Baby Boaz is growing and he is so sweet, I will post a pic tonight. Also I will candle egg Ruth today, but it's been too many days already, so I am not very hopeful.
Vasp, the temperature is right, pigeon temperature, the foster parents are sitting on it 24/7.

Reti


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## Vasp

What I meant is that the low temperature earlier, before Boaz hatched, may have caused some problems in poor little Ruth. Of course, some babies just don't make it.


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## Reti

I candled the egg and there is no movement in there, no sounds either. I had noticed on Tuesday there was one crack and I didn't see any other additional ones. I don't want to open it and find a dead baby, so I leave it another day with the foster parents and then will discard it before it breaks.

Baby Boaz is doing great, didn't have time to take pics, hopefully tomorrow.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

I'm sorry that it appears that Egg Ruth is not to be, but very glad that Boaz is doing well.

Terry


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## Vasp

I would say if there is no movement and so sound, yes, poor Ruth is not going to hatch. 
I'm glad to hear that baby Boaz is doing great, though. I think we're going to need some pictures.


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## Reti

Todays pics
He opened his right eye today.

Reti


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## Skyeking

What a doll baby!!!!  

Thanks for sharing the pic.


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## TAWhatley

Darling baby, Reti! Looks like you and the foster parents are doing a wonderful job!

Terry


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## Lovebirds

In that first picture Mom (or is it Dad) is looking at you like "put my baby down RIGHT NOW!"..........baby is looking good.


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## Reti

Thank you Treesa, Terry and Renee.
This is Giacomo, the mom. She is just the sweetest pigeon, so gentle and calm and good natured. You might remember her story from 911, the lost racing pigeon with the open fracture of the leg. The owner didn't want her back. Ellen's contact, a wonderful lady, auctioned a bird and donated the money for Gia's surgery.

I tried to clean the nest while Homer was sitting on the baby but he wouldn't let me.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Baby Boaz looks great, Reti. I'm sorry Ruth didn't make it, but so glad Boaz is doing well.


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## TAWhatley

Reti said:


> You might remember her story from 911, the lost racing pigeon with the open fracture of the leg. The owner didn't want her back. Ellen's contact, a wonderful lady, auctioned a bird and donated the money for Gia's surgery. Reti


I do remember it well, Reti. That was one very, very fine racing pigeon person who did all that was done for Gia. Actually, I think she bought her own pigeon back  while also donating the funds towards Gia's surgery.

Terry


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## Reti

TAWhatley said:


> I do remember it well, Reti. That was one very, very fine racing pigeon person who did all that was done for Gia. Actually, I think she bought her own pigeon back  while also donating the funds towards Gia's surgery.
> 
> Terry


Right. Gia and me will be greatful forever for her generosity.

Reti


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## tmkwv2

He looks great. Today he turns 1 week! I am sorry that Ruth did not make it, perhaps the sudden changes during transportation were too much for her. It was one of those hard decisions. If we had waited for her to hatch, there was a good chance Boaz would not have made it. I am glad he is doing so well and look forward to seeing him again.


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## Reti

tmkwv2 said:


> He looks great. Today he turns 1 week! I am sorry that Ruth did not make it, perhaps the sudden changes during transportation were too much for her. It was one of those hard decisions. If we had waited for her to hatch, there was a good chance Boaz would not have made it. I am glad he is doing so well and look forward to seeing him again.



One week old and he has both eyes open now. 
That was my thought too, about the transportation, but there was no other choise, Boaz might have not survived without crop milk and momma's warmth for 24-48 hours. You did the right thing.

Reti


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## Margarret

Boaz is adorable and obviously thriving under Gia and Homer. All of you did a marvelous job of saving this baby. I'm sorry little Ruth didn't make it but it wasn't to be. Those are hard judgement calls to make and IMO you made all the right ones. Thanks for the pics Reti. 

Margaret


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## Birdmom4ever

You did the right thing in taking the eggs to Reti when you did. As others have said, Boaz likely wouldn't have made it if he hadn't gotten crop milk when he did. And unfortunately some chicks simply don't make it through the hatching process, even when both parents are there and there is no interruption in incubation. It's really miraculous that Boaz _did_ make it.


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## Reti

Here is Boaz today. Doing great. Gia and Homer started to leave him by himself for short periods of time, so it was easy to take him out and take some pics. They don't mind it as much anymore. He is so adorable I could hold him forever.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC

Reti said:


> He is so adorable I could hold him forever.
> 
> Reti


I'd love to be with you so we could take turns.  He sure is cute.


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## Margarret

Reti, 

He is adorable. Give him a little scritch for me.

Margaret


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## TAWhatley

Such a cutie, Reti! Thank you for the photo .. please keep 'em coming!

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever

He looks so comfy in your hand, Reti.  Thanks for sharing. We all look forward to seeing pictures of him as he grows up.


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## Reti

Thank you all. He is such a delight. Will post more pics soon.

Reti


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## Lovebirds

What a cute baby. I've got new ones hatching Saturday!! Yippee!!


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## Reti

Lovebirds said:


> What a cute baby. I've got new ones hatching Saturday!! Yippee!!



Oh, how wonderful. Enjoy them, well, I know you will. 

Reti


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## Reti

Here he is, almost 2 weeks old.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

What a darling baby, Reti! Thank you for the pictures and for seeing that this little one is going to be just fine (thanks to the foster parents too)!

Terry


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## Skyeking

Oh, what a doll! Thank you for doing everything you did for securing this little one's future.


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## Margarret

Reti,

He is as cute as a bug. The two to three weeks of age is so darn precious. Makes me just want to cuddle them nonstop when they are that age. Boaz is simply thriving. You are doing a wonderful job with him. Give Gia and Homer a scritch and a thank you for me.

Margaret


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## Birdmom4ever

He looks just great, Reti! Kudos to Gia and Homer.


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## Maggie-NC

Oh Reti, I want him! He is so cute - at that age, their little tummies are warm and moist and they smell so sweet.


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## Reti

They are adorable at this age, so trusting and sweet. Homer and Gia let me babysit now and when I take him back they are ready to feed him.
I compared his pics with Dolly, Gia's and Homers' oops baby from last year and he is a little slower in growth, fewer pinfeathers and smaller and half the weight Dolly was at this age. I wonder if ferals grow slower?

Thank for the comments everybody.

Reti


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## Margarret

Reti said:


> I wonder if ferals grow slower?
> 
> Thank for the comments everybody.
> 
> Reti


Reti, 
That is an interesting question. Loverly(the burn baby) is very small, about half the size of a racer. S/he may be very young, but was obviously fully feathered weaned and out of the nest before injury. This is the first feral I have had, so have no idea about their growth pattern. It makes sense that they may have poorer nutrition as their parents have to go out and scavage for food. In the case of Boaz, tho, he has been getting nutritious food from hatching on. So it can't be the nutrition alone.

Margaret


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## Reti

Margarret said:


> Reti,
> That is an interesting question. Loverly(the burn baby) is very small, about half the size of a racer. S/he may be very young, but was obviously fully feathered weaned and out of the nest before injury. This is the first feral I have had, so have no idea about their growth pattern. It makes sense that they may have poorer nutrition as their parents have to go out and scavage for food. In the case of Boaz, tho, he has been getting nutritious food from hatching on. So it can't be the nutrition alone.
> 
> Margaret



I have two ferals that are really small. They are both less than 300gr each and they are not skinny. I got them as adults. Ferals are smaller than our pampered pijies and I guess genetics might have also something to do with it.

Reti


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## ippychick

What a beautiful story, and how amazing things worked out so well in the end!

I'm so touched! 

Keep posting!


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## tmkwv2

Hey Retti -

Thanks for all the pictures. He is getting so big! We were in California last week so we have been out of the loop. I would love to come and see him sometime. What are your plans once he is weaned? Do you think you will be able to release him? Thanks for all you are doing. I am hoping to get some more eggs on my porch! This has been such an amazing experience.


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## Reti

Hope you had a good time in California. You can come and vist anytime. I am a litttle concerned as he doesn't seem to grow that fast and his crop is never as full as the other babies was at that stage. I know mom and dad feed him so maybe he just won't eat as much, but why not?
I will post more pics over the weekend and I am thinking also about supplementing his feedings with formula.
Otherwise he seems healthy and so very sweet. He has no fear of me, so I don't know if he will be releasable, most likely not. I don't have a wild flock and no way of teaching him about predators and how to find food out in the "wild".
So, guess he will be staying here 

Reti


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## Reti

18 days old.

Reti


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## nikku-chan

This was my baby when she was 17 days old. I found her at 14 days, so she had been getting ample nutrition until that point. She does seem more developed that Boaz.

She is a feral too. She is about 285 grams now, 3 months old, and a bit on the skinny side, but she is a small bird in general. It is probably because she didn't get her parent's nutrition after i found her.

My other baby was huge when i found him at 4 weeks, bigger than she is now, so i assume she was a little baby to begin with anyway.

maybe you should supplement his feeding. It couldn't hurt.


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## Reti

Thanks for the pic n-c. Your baby was more developed at 17 days than mine at 18 days. I went in to feed him last night and found the crop to be full so I let him be. I don't mind if will be a small pigeon, I have a few of ferals that are less than 300gr and they are not skinny, just small and they are doing great. I just hope he is healthy.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC

Reti, he is precious. You could try supplementing with one Kaytee feed each day. I don't think it would hurt.


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## Reti

Something is wrong with Boaz. He is still so small, he is not walking properly and even though I feed him tons I can never feel his crop. He is more than a month old now and he looks like two weeks old. He can drink on his own but he can't eat yet, and he has no appetite, feeding him is a struggle. He is not active like a young bird should be prefers to just sit in his nest. 

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Do think salmonellosis/paratyphoid is a possibility? I know they can contract it before hatching, if mom was infected. I'm so sorry to hear he's not doing better.


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## Reti

Birdmom4ever said:


> Do think salmonellosis/paratyphoid is a possibility? I know they can contract it before hatching, if mom was infected. I'm so sorry to hear he's not doing better.



It crossed my mind, but I don't know if I should treat him for something that he might have not being sure if he really does have it. I don't know what to do. 
Then the crop thing makes me wondering, I fed him yesterday 40 pellets at one sitting and the crop didn't feel full. His droppings are light, very light beige but formed, if that means anything.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

What a shame, Reti. Boaz does look like a sad and not feeling well youngster in the pictures you posted today .. it's the look in his eyes and the way the body is held.

I don't have any useful information to impart, but I think I would try one of the multi-purpose meds, pray a lot, and hope for a good outcome. 

Terry


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## Reti

I am beside myself. I just came home from work and I found him standing in a very odd position, kind of upright and on his butt. The whole posterior part is swollen, I don't know what this is, he did poop a bunch during the night, so it is not impacted stool. I've never seen something like this. He is doing very poorly and I just don't know what to give him, a dewormer? I doubt he has worms, I mean can they be transmitted though the egg? But as I said he is not impacted. He is doing very poorly I doubt he'll make it through the day.
He is starting to breath heavier and can hardly keep his eyes open.
OMG, I can't believe this is happening.
Reti


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## Skyeking

Oh...Reti, I'm so sorry to hear this.
.
Were you able to try the 4 in one treatments on him?


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## Lovebirds

OH, I was hoping this was nothing serious. I have no idea what it could be. Damn.


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## Reti

No, I didn't, he might have gotten whatever the parents had as they were still feeding him. Now I think it is too late and I don't know if it would work. I don't even know what is wrong with him.

Reti


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## Margarret

Reti,

I'm so sorry to read that Boaz is in such distress. I haven't a clue as to what is going on and I know how helpless it feels for you. The only thing I can think of is what Terry suggested, one of the multipurpose meds. Am sending prayers and healing for him.

Margaret


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## Reti

I started him on Baytril and Flagyl even though I am not hopeful at all. My heart breaks to see him like this and all I can do is keep him warm and comfortable. I have to leave for work at 3pm (they just called me) and I don't even know if I should feed him before I leave. I do feel totally helpless. Yodi is doing very poorly also. 

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Oh Reti, I'm so very sorry. I know how awful it is to feel powerless to help them.  I'm praying.


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## TAWhatley

I'm so sorry little Boaz and Yodi are doing poorly. Believe me, I do know how you are feeling right now, and it's miserable. Here's hoping they will both rally and surprise you.

Terry


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## Reti

Thank you all.
Unfortunately he died at 10.00pm. I was still at work, but Lee was with him, at least he was not alone.
Yodi has an appointment with a vet tomorrow 9am. Keep him in your prayers please.

Reti


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## TAWhatley

Reti said:


> Thank you all.
> Unfortunately he died at 10.00pm. I was still at work, but Lee was with him, at least he was not alone.
> Yodi has an appointment with a vet tomorrow 9am. Keep him in your prayers please.
> 
> Reti


Ohhh, Reti .. my heart breaks for you and little Boaz. I am so very sorry.

I will be pulling for you and Yodi!

Terry


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## Reti

Thank you Terry. I am so tired and depressed. I was going to take him with Yodi to the vets today even though I had a feeling it was too late when I made the appointment yesterday. I wish I would have realized days ago how serious his condition was. 

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Reti, I'm so very sorry. What a shame he died after all that.  Please don't beat yourself up, though. It's so hard to treat little babies in the nest. You did your best for him. 

Still praying for you and Yodi.


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## Lovebirds

Reti, so sorry to hear the news. Keep you're chin up though lady.  You've saved WAY more than you've lost and there'll be lots more that will need you're help and love before it's all said and done. He was happy and was given the best chance that anyone could have given him. RIP little Boaz.


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## Reti

Thank you Birdmom and Renee. I still see his little sweet face and he loved to cuddle in my lap. I miss him.
I have to focus on Yodi now. He has an overwhelming infection, I just pray it is not too late for the antibiotics to work. We'll know for sure next week what it is, after the results are back.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

Reti, I don't know if it will help, but a few years ago I had a young Nun come down with a terrible infection. My vet and I still don't know what it was. Her droppings looked normal but she eventually stopped eating and became painfully thin and listless. Whatever the infection was, it didn't respond to Baytril. My vet put her on Ticarcillin and I had to give her two injections a day for awhile. It was terrible because she shuddered and closed her eyes with every shot I gave her--the shots were obviously very painful for her. But she pulled through and we bonded through her recovery time in the house. Today she's a healthy, happy girl and even lays eggs and has raised some nice chicks. I still don't know what it was that made her so sick, but it must have been bad because I've heard Ticarcillin is a really big gun. 

I do hope your vet will find the right medication in time and Yodi will pull through. 

-Cathy


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## Reti

Birdmom4ever said:


> Reti, I don't know if it will help, but a few years ago I had a young Nun come down with a terrible infection. My vet and I still don't know what it was. Her droppings looked normal but she eventually stopped eating and became painfully thin and listless. Whatever the infection was, it didn't respond to Baytril. My vet put her on Ticarcillin and I had to give her two injections a day for awhile. It was terrible because she shuddered and closed her eyes with every shot I gave her--the shots were obviously very painful for her. But she pulled through and we bonded through her recovery time in the house. Today she's a healthy, happy girl and even lays eggs and has raised some nice chicks. I still don't know what it was that made her so sick, but it must have been bad because I've heard Ticarcillin is a really big gun.
> 
> I do hope your vet will find the right medication in time and Yodi will pull through.
> 
> -Cathy


Thank you for the advice Cathy. Yodi is on Fortaz injection 3 a day (ouch) and Doxycycline. He said his labs look much like Chlamydia. He sent out a Chlamydia DNA but it takes some time to get the results. If it is not that he said the Fortaz should take care of whatever it is. If I don't see any improvement I will ask for Ticarcillin ( I have to look it up as I am not familiar with this antibiotic).

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever

I was unfamiliar with it too, but mentioned it to a couple of friends from Bible study who happen to be RN's. They told me that in humans it's used for drug-resistant staph infections.


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## tmkwv2

Hi Reti -

I have been away from the message board for about a week. I am so sorry to hear about Boaz. It is very sad he did not make it. Thank you so much for taking care of him up until the end. We were in Miami yesterday and thought about giving you a call. Bless you!


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## Reti

I am so sorry tmkw2 that little Boaz didn't make it. I am not sure there was anything that could be done. I asked my vet when I took in Yodi and it is very likely he had something from the start. Maybe Ruth had it too and that is why she never hatched. We will never know. But he was much loved and he enjoyed his cuddling sessions.
He was burried in in the Flagler pet cemetery among my other beloved pets who passed away too soon.


Reti


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## tmkwv2

Reti -

I was thinking, do you believe that perhaps Boaz's parents had an illness that they passed to the babies and perhaps that is why they disappeared? Maybe they were sick too?


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## Charis

That is very likely.


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## yellowking

this is why i always have an extra pair of pigeon incase i need a foster parent. sorry to here the lost.


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## Reti

I was thinking the same thing, maybe the parents were sick and passed it on to the babies.

Yelloking, the baby was cared for by foster parents. 

Reti


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## little bird

Reti said:


> I was thinking the same thing, maybe the parents were sick and passed it on to the babies.
> 
> Yelloking, the baby was cared for by foster parents.
> 
> Reti


Reti, what are the possibilities that the baby did pass what ever affected his parents and him on to his foster parents???? Are they thriving???


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## Reti

Gia and Homer are doing great and are sitting on eggs (wooden) right now. They are not showing any signs of illness. I am watching them. Thanks lb.

Reti


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## TexasBirdFan

That is good to hear. I wish them and you the best of luck.


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## Reti

TexasBirdFan said:


> That is good to hear. I wish them and you the best of luck.



Thank you.

Reti


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