# troublesome droppings



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

One of my ringnecks (Professor Plum) has occasionally had loose droppings that would clear up on their own and then come back again. Usually they last a day or two. And he'll go for weeks without having the issue.

Well - he has the loose droppings again this week. But I have noticed some brownish, gelatinous globs in them...one such glob also had tiny drop of bright red blood in it. (sorry - I didn't think to take a photo)

I am worried...what could this mean?? And what should I do? He seems very healthy otherwise. Lively and energetic as ever...

(I know he isn't a pigeon, per se...but with all of the experienced folks here, I am hoping someone can help.)


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have seen the gelatinous droppings in my doves also, but as you mentioned they last only a few days if not less and never noticed any other problems in them.
Might be something in their diet. Now that I think of it, it seems to occur mostly in the females, but I am not 100% about it.
Now the blood is something to worry about. First of all, are you sure it is blood and not something red or purple or orange he ate? 

Reti


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Reti said:


> Now the blood is something to worry about. First of all, are you sure it is blood and not something red or purple or orange he ate?



Hi Reti,
Thanks for your quick response!
I can't think of anything purple or orange he would have eaten...unless he managed to get a bite out of the red hibiscus flower that's blooming in the room where I keep my birds. I will take a look and see if the flower has any missing chunks...

I am almost positive this bird is a male. He bow-coos constantly, and is very "forward" in his mannerisms...


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> One of my ringnecks (Professor Plum) has occasionally had loose droppings that would clear up on their own and then come back again. Usually they last a day or two. And he'll go for weeks without having the issue.
> 
> Well - he has the loose droppings again this week. But I have noticed some brownish, gelatinous globs in them...one such glob also had tiny drop of bright red blood in it. (sorry - I didn't think to take a photo)
> 
> ...





Reti said:


> I have seen the gelatinous droppings in my doves also, but as you mentioned they last only a few days if not less and never noticed any other problems in them.
> Might be something in their diet. Now that I think of it, it seems to occur mostly in the females, but I am not 100% about it.
> *Now the blood is something to worry about. First of all, are you sure it is blood and not something red or purple or orange he ate?
> *
> Reti


Hi Karen, Reti

Karen, the behaviour of the dove will give you so much information. If the bird is acting normally, then chances are that things are fine. You said yourself that he'll go for weeks without an issue. 

Blood in the stools can indicate a couple of disorders such as worms or high coccidia numbers at times but not often seen in pigeons.

I'd get the dove to your vet for a stool sample and diagnosis and see what happens from there.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

There are too many possibilities for this to be pinpointed over the web. You have to get this bird over to a vet for a fecal study and some other tests. It could be contagious to your other birds making a visit to the vet a must. Treating on a guess could kill your bird so no one here would be willing to do that. Please don't wait too long and try to nip this in the bud.
Do you have an avian vet? If not, I can get you to a list of them in Mass.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Blood is easy to discern in a fecal smear. You can get a vet to do that without him having to actually see the bird. How old is Professor Plum?

Pidgey


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Brad, Pidgey & pigeonperson,
I have a couple of names for local avian vets. Will try to get him (or at least his stools) checked out this week. Thank you.

Professor Plum is just under a year old. I got both doves from a nearby breeder so I was able to see the facilities when I picked them out. Very clean and well managed.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*Update...*

Hi.
Just wanted to let everyone on this thread know that I appreciate your advice. I did get my birds to a vet. She was able to see the blood, but the fecal did not reveal any parasite activity or other issues. The vet suggested that it may be a very low grade infestation, and sent us home with meds and an otherwise clean bill of health. 

So far - Plum's droppings seem to be clearing up from the treatments. Keeping fingers crossed that the problem does not recur.

Thanks again for your help!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Karen, I'm glad you got this checked out. Blood in the stool is always worrying. Thanks for letting us know and continued good wishes for Plum.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2007)

Karen,
Did your vet do any gram stains looking for a bacterial infection? I'm concerned about the possibility of salmonella but any enteritis causing bacteria can cause bleeding. If the vet ruled out parasites, he ruled out coccidia and worms but did he rule out bacterial infection?


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

pigeonperson said:


> ...If the vet ruled out parasites, he ruled out coccidia and worms but did he rule out bacterial infection?


Hi pigeonperson,
I am not sure. Will have to look at the paperwork again, and call back if the info is not there. Thanks!!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Was there any paperwork on the meds (on the bottle or otherwise) to say what the stuff was? We might be able to extrapolate from that.

Pidgey


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Gelatinous globs in poop*

Last week my adult male street pigeon *Wieteke* did two (that I know of) unusual poops, gelatinous, less than an inch in diameter, like somewhat milky, thin egg whites, with three or four half-inch thin spaghetti-looking dark green pieces. He did them on the tablecloth before being set outside. 

I knew I had seen similar poops in the past, and a photo on the web somewhere. 

It was a sunny day, a very nice crisp spring day following wintry weather, and all the local cock birds wre roo-cooing and strutting. The sun hit the buds on the previously bare branches, creating a bright green screen or filter which blocked my view somewhat of the church windows where the pigeons roosted at night. 

Then it occurred to me that perhaps I was looking at results of hormonal changes. The gonads shrink in winter, increase greatly in size (I have read: haven't myself seen or measured them). 

Perhaps some reproductive system ducts were being flushed, readied for spring activity. 

His poops were in the usual range of normal before this, and since. 

Larryi


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Perhaps some reproductive system ducts were being flushed, readied for spring activity.
> Larryi


Hi Larry - I have wondered about that with the gelatinous globs. I wasn't particularly worried about them, but when I started seeing blood and excess fluids as well as the globs, I was alarmed.

Hi Pidgey - Sorry to take so long for a response. I was waiting for the 2nd med to ship from the pharmacy. I am to give the doves Panacur 1x daily for 5 days, skip 5 days and then 1x daily for 5 more days. Then the Metronidazole they get 2x daily for 5 days. (Because of the shipping timing, I am giving the Metronidazole during the 5 days they are not getting the Panacur.) The dosages are different for each bird - calculated by their weights. Does that sound like it would clear up a bacterial problem?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Karen,

That is an awful lot of Panacur. A lot of people have had bad experiences with Panacur--we lost a pigeon after giving Panacur for 10 days (though we did it by mistake--our vet had only meant the pij to get 1 dose). Panacur is usually 1 single dose, or at most once daily for 3 days. It can be pretty toxic however, so a lot of people use other meds for worms, such as Ivermectin. Anyway, other people more knowledgeable than me will be on with more advice.

Sabina

P.S. Metronidazole is usually given for canker (trichomoniasis) though it can be used for some other infections.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

sabina said:


> A lot of people have had bad experiences with Panacur--we lost a pigeon after giving Panacur for 10 days


I am sorry to hear about your lost pigeon. How awful!
Yikes - The vet told me specifically that Panacur was a very "safe" medication and not to worry if I messed up and gave them a little bit too much...Now I don't know what to think.

(I have been VERY careful to give them exactly the doses she prescribed. I don't believe in "safe" medications.)


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> I am sorry to hear about your lost pigeon. How awful!
> Yikes - The vet told me specifically that Panacur was a very "safe" medication and not to worry if I messed up and gave them a little bit too much...Now I don't know what to think.
> 
> (I have been VERY careful to give them exactly the doses she prescribed. I don't believe in "safe" medications.)



I don't know about Panacur...never used it, but if I was you, I would WAIT until someone comes on and explains more to you about the med. I know I've read some bad things and I wouldn't take the chance.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi Pidgey - Sorry to take so long for a response. I was waiting for the 2nd med to ship from the pharmacy. I am to give the doves Panacur 1x daily for 5 days, skip 5 days and then 1x daily for 5 more days. Then the Metronidazole they get 2x daily for 5 days. (Because of the shipping timing, I am giving the Metronidazole during the 5 days they are not getting the Panacur.) The dosages are different for each bird - calculated by their weights. Does that sound like it would clear up a bacterial problem?


That does seem like way too much Panacur. How much are they actually getting per dose and what is the concentration? I guess you've already gone through part of this?

Panacur can be pretty nasty in even slight overdose in pigeons, I would imagine the same for doves. It really is normally used as a "one-time-only" deal in pigeons when it's packaged especially for pigeons. The formularies hint that there might be problems in pigeons but amongst pigeon fanciers, it's almost common knowledge.

The Metronidazole is mostly for flagellating protozoa that typically cause canker. It does have minor activity against some anaerobes. It also mediates the immune response in the lower intestines which can mean that if something's bugging the guts and they're reacting too hard, it might ease it off some. But, there are a lot of bacteria that can cause enteritis that it won't touch.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

amoonswirl said:


> I am sorry to hear about your lost pigeon. How awful!
> Yikes - The vet told me specifically that Panacur was a very "safe" medication and not to worry if I messed up and gave them a little bit too much...Now I don't know what to think.
> 
> (I have been VERY careful to give them exactly the doses she prescribed. I don't believe in "safe" medications.)



The vets will tell you whatever they want to, we have heard a horror story from someone who lost alot of pigeons, not only is it NOT the right wormer for pigeons, but the vet way overdosed this persons birds.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Eeek. I have already given them the first 5 days of treatment. It is a very small amount - something like .02 milliliters - hard to even read on the syringe because it is so tiny and the lines are so close together.

What are the signs to look for? The only difference I have seen is that their droppings are smaller and drier. But they do not seem to have had any ill effects, other than the feathers Professor Plum has lost in struggling with me. (Wrapping him in a towel while medicating him seems to help, but he still tends to drop some feathers when he is stressed.)


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

When Squeaks had round worms (he pooped one WHOLE worm!  ), my Avian Vet (who has pigeons of his own), prescribed *Panacur (100mg/ml)* as follows:

*0.05 cc daily for 3 days. Wait 3 weeks and repeat*. 

He ended up passing 6 more worms...

Dr. B. said that should take care of the worms. Obviously, different thoughts from different Vets!

This was in March, 2004 and I have seen no evidence of worms since...and, believe me, I watch!


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Karen,

At this point I would not worry yourself too much about already having dosed your birds. There are other much safer wormers out there and in the future, if need be, you will use one of them. I also also would not be too concerned with having harmed them or toxicity issues, as birds that did have problems where dosed at much, much higher rates than you administered.

Good luck with them.

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The quantity given ideally depends on the birds' weights and the formulation strength. I'm not acquainted much with liquid Panacur. Here is a thread detailing the tragic event that I think Treesa's referring to:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10546

Pidgey


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