# Young Pigeon With Eye problem



## ante bozanich

I've just rescued a young feral whose left eye has a wart like growth on both of the eyelids. The eyelids are closed but I was able to open them gently and it seems the eye itself may be all right. Has anyone seen anything like this?

Thank you.


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## feralpigeon

If you could post a picture, that would be great, though it does sound like
Avian Poxvirus. If you have other rescues, wash your hands thorouhly after
handling the one w/the warts. A solution of 1/2cup of Bleach to one gallon 
of water will kill the pox virus...Nolvasan won't if you use that. I keep that
solution in spray bottles and when I had pox rescues would spray my hands
after handling before washing w/soap. 

It's a virus, so it's mostly a situation of letting the virus take it's course,
between 4-5 weeks. You can treat for canker and the other known devils
that we normally treat rescues for. There are a few kinds of Pox Virus:

1. Cutaneous (dry or 'in the skin')
2. Diptheritic (wet or on and around mucous membrane, w/lesions similar to canker)
3. Septicemic (sudden onset w/organ involvement, fatal within days)

Some categorize more than these three, including Choryza (involving mucous
discharge from eyes and nares and Tumor, involving a bird who develops
cancerous tumors in the skin as a result of unresolved boils/warts becoming
cancerous, usually developing after the course of the virus.

It's not uncommon for their to be secondary opportunist infections, to see
respiratory involvement, or for the bird to start losing weight and need 
supplemental feedings from the caregiver. A higher supplemental diet of
protein than normal is beneficial.

A bird can have more than one kind of Pox Virus at the same time and 
can have canker or other illnesses concurrently as well.

fp


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## Guest

Ante,
There is a low level epidemic of pox going around New York City. The viral strain is not the strongest that can happen and I'm seeing a number of birds with very small pox lesions. Oddly enough, I see birds with only one pox lesion and it is usually on the eyelid or the cere. The vector is the mosquito which carries the virus. Once a bird has gotten over a pox virus, it is immune for the rest of its life. 

I think the danger of a drying pox lesion on an eyelid is the possibility that it can scratch the cornea as the bird blinks but when the lesions are on eyelids, there is nothing you can use to accelerate their drying out without endangering the eyes. 

Watch out for a canker infection because these two seem to often go hand in hand. 

If the eyelids are closed all the time, I assume that you intend to hand feed the bird until the disease process is finished.


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## ante bozanich

Thank you. I am taking her/him to a rehabber today at 2:30. The growth is on the eyelids of only one eye so she can see with her other eye and also she can open the effected eye a little. The growths on the eyelids are very hard and I did not see anything unusually inside of her mouth or anywhere else on her body except for pigeon flies. I am not sure what to make out of it. Hopefully the rehabber will make the right diagnosis when they see her today. 

She is young, still squeaking.


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## ante bozanich

Looking at my last post, it's been now 17 days since I took this young pigeon to see rehabbers and the eye is getting worse. It looks now as if a round peace of chewing gum is stuck right on the top of his left eye. When I took him in, I was able to open his eye and now I can't do that, and the growth has much increased in size. 

The rehabbers have told me that it's most likely pox virus. They said that it also looks like he might have a secondary infection in his eye; so I had treated him with the antibiotic they gave me for the first week. Now, as I said, I can't even open his eye. I'm worried that the wart has become cancerous. I am not sure what to do?


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## Pidgey

Pox growths can get pretty big and you're still within their normal schedule.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

The kind of poxvirus that eventually mutates into cancerous growths, does
so after the virus itself has run it's course. It would be interesting to know
what you were given to put in the bird's eye though. Was it an Ophthalmic
Ointment? If an ointment, I would think it to be problematic. This is an
instance where if treating topically, I would go w/Colloidal Silver, though
systemic might be a better choice.

fp


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## ante bozanich

feralpigeon said:


> It would be interesting to know what you were given to put in the bird's eye though. Was it an Ophthalmic Ointment? If an ointment, I would think it to be problematic. This is an instance where if treating topically, I would go w/Colloidal Silver, though systemic might be a better choice.
> 
> fp


It was _Neomycin and Pollymixin B Sulfates and Gramicidin Ophthalmic Solution USP_ to be exact. It is not an ointment. It looks now as if the wort is starting to wrinkle on top and I hope is drying out. His eye is still completely shut by the growth and I hope the eye itself has not been damaged.

However I have another issue... I am not sure if I should start another thread?

A rescue of mine who had canker (see my thread Another Victim of Canker?), had survived but has overgrown beak; so I've been reluctant to release him. Recently, he got a female visitor in my bedroom (long story). After less than a week, they started their mating ritual. She laid an egg two days ago inside a large 16" by 24" plastic container where I keep their seed ball. I am not sure what to do. I can't have any more pigeons in my small apartment. Also, I'm wondering... where is the other egg?


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## Reti

She might lay another egg today. Sometimes it happens that they lay only one egg. But the second one can come up to 48 hours later.
You can switch both eggs with dummies, or you can remove one and boil it and put it back in the nest and then remove the second one, boil and out it back.
Or you can just remove the eggs and throw away, but then they will start all over again shortly.

Reti


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## ante bozanich

You were right Reti. She did lay another egg yesterday. I have to go get them some twigs, since I'm not sure that the pieces of nylon rope and cords are the best for them to keep building their nest with; and this is all I have at home to offer them right now.

I do have two eggs that I found which had never hatched. So in other words I can just remove these two new eggs and if pigeons are not sitting on them they will not hatch?


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## feralpigeon

They have to 'incubate' (sit on the eggs) in order for them to hatch. The
norm is the 44/48hour time frame, there are some that fall outside of this norm.

Hopefully if the eye is in the closed position, it will retain the moisture needed
not to become so dry that the 'wart' scratches the cornea as the natural drying process for the pox 'wart' takes place.

fp


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## ante bozanich

Actually then now to think about it, these eggs will probably never incubate because every time I walk in my bedroom whoever is sitting on the eggs flies away from the nest. Why in the world will she lay the eggs inside their eating container which is on the top of TV set right at the foot of my bed? Most of the time they spend high above on the shelf. 

So I guess the best thing to do is to leave the eye alone. It does look like the wort is shriveling up. The rehabbers have told me that I should release him after a week or so but I feel with only one eye he will not be able to navigate to well so I'm going to keep him and see what happens. He has my living room and the bathroom while the couple live in my bedroom.


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## John_D

ante bozanich said:


> A
> So I guess the best thing to do is to leave the eye alone. It does look like the wort is shriveling up. The rehabbers have told me that I should release him after a week or so but I feel with only one eye he will not be able to navigate to well so I'm going to keep him and see what happens. He has my living room and the bathroom while the couple live in my bedroom.


He would have a problem. They can adjust, in terms of getting around, just as humans can - but, the biggest thing is that a one-eyed pigeon is at grave risk of not being aware of danger until too late. I can reach out and touch a couple of ours on their blind side, whereas they'd be ready to wingslap me well before then if I approach their good side.

John


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## ante bozanich

First thanks for all of your help and sorry for not responding sooner. 

Bad news... Young pigeon is sick again. 

Wort had finally fallen off couple of weeks ago and eye seems to be fine. I've been planning to release him, but all of the sudden he seems to be seriously sick again. 

I've just noticed that since, at least, this morning he has not eaten. Where used to be many solid pigeon droppings there is nothing but green liquid. I think I need help.

Two other pigeons in my bedroom have been laying on the old eggs for a while, then they stopped, made another nest on the top of a shelf, and several days ago, to my disbelief, she has laid four new eggs. I have already replaced these four eggs with two of their previous eggs. 

This couple seems to be healthy, except that I am finding a lot of poop which is unusually large, soft and smells very strong.

As far as the young pigeon, who got over the Poxvirus, I am very concerned. I have a feeling, he is very sick. I am not sure what to do. Please, I need some advice.

Thank you.


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## sabina

Hi Ante,
That's awful that your little bird is sick now again. I don't think there's much for you to actually do right this second. There are some nasty viruses that young birds are susceptible to, and they can happen so suddenly. We've had some really difficult situations with birds we were almost ready to release in the past as well.

Try to make sure the bird stays hydrated (with oral reyhdration solution), given the fluid loss with the diarrhea. And then it would be good if you could take the bird tomorrow for a fecal analysis--then if it is bacterial, he can be treated.

I hope things turn out ok...especially after all you've already been through with this bird. I really hope he gets better.

Sabina


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## ante bozanich

Thanks Sabina.

I have just realized that it looks like he is not digesting his food since I have found a lot of seed along with the green liquid at the place where I used to find his droppings. There is no other way that these seeds could get there. What's going on here all of a sudden?


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## Skyeking

Make sure to put this bird in isolation, in a warm area, free of bright light, traffic, and noise. 

Is his crop staying full, have you checked the crop-felt it? Open the beak and see if there is a bad smell. This may be a yeast infection or another issue. If the bird has had this for more then a few days you need to get help from an avian vet or rehabber asap.


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## ante bozanich

Well, he's been with me for two month now getting through this Poxvirus infection. He has picked his own spot in my place which is shower curtain rod in the bathroom. He spends most of his time there. He used to fly often into the living room but since yesterday he's been just sitting there. This is probably the warmest and the quietest spot in my apartment. I do like to keep light in there since I want him to be able to get to his food and water dish which I keep in a large plastic container on top of the sink.

There is no unusual smell coming from him or his mouth. His crop is empty so I am starting to feed him formula with the tube. I hope I can make an appointment to see the rehabbers today at the place where I took him first time for the Poxvirus. I don't know of any vet who treats pigeons in NYC. 

He is definitely behaving differently all of the sudden.


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## Guest

Ante,
Do you know that you can take your bird in for a checkup at Animal General?
They take fecal studies and can tell you what is going on. Birds with avian pox often come down with canker infections but also, they will check the bird for bacterial, yeast conditions, coccidia and worms.. Their telephone number is (212) 501-9600. They take donations if you can afford it but Animal General does as much as any private vet you could find.

_NOTE: Please do not use the 212-501-6900 phone # .. use 646-306-2862 for the Wild Bird Fund in NYC.

Note added by Terry._


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## ante bozanich

Oh yes, thank you. I've been taking there all of my pigeon rescues. The Wild Bird Fund... great people. When I say rehabbers, that's who I mean. I took him there two months ago, when he came in with the wort on his eye, and I've just made an appointment for two o'clock there. 

I'm afraid he's very sick.


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## sabina

Hi Ante,

How did the visit go today?


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## ante bozanich

Hey Sabina and the rest,

So, about the visit:

1) Fecal lab work came out perfect. No yeast, no parasites, nothing. He weights the same as when I took him in two months ago. According to my favorite rehabber, he looks very healthy. There is still scar tissue around his "pox virus eye," but the eye is fine. He can see with it. So why change in the stool (green and very liquid), his behavior, not eating and drinking? Perhaps stress. I personally think, he wants freedom and is on strike. It seems at this point, it's all about me being able to let go. I wish the winter wasn't coming. I'm such a mother. 

After coming back from Animal General, I was exhausted and went to sleep. I just woke up. While I was asleep, he has definitely visited his feeding station. His stool is still green, but there are more unified pieces and they look a bit more solid. 

2) This is what I was told about the couple who've been living in my bedroom, making nests and laying eggs: They must be both females. This explains why there were four eggs in their new nest. From their love and nesting ritual, I would've never guessed. I knew female pigeon lays two eggs, but just like with human twins and so on, I thought maybe there was a rare exception.

Regarding huge, bad smelling poop... I was told this is normal with pigeons after they've been sitting on their eggs for such a long time. 

So, here again, I'm in a dilemma of "to release or not to release." I have what it looks like two female pigeons acting like a heterosexual couple, living in my bedroom. They seem to be both very content, building their nests, laying eggs, alternately sitting on them, and so on. Neither of them shows any sign of looking for an escape. There is a window and pigeons outside on the balcony looking in, but those two inside seem could care less. One of them is survivor of a very severe case of canker and has a very bad overgrown hooked beak. The other one I took in because I saw some blood on her wing and a lot of pigeon flies crawling on her. The first one... I am not sure if she could survive outside with her hooked beak. The second one would have no problem. However, the first one seemed very unhappy and always was looking for a way out before the second one came in. 

So... What am I going to do?


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## Guest

Ante,
In the very best of worlds, the bird with the hooked beak is not releasable. If you're describing what is called a scissor beak, there has been a deformation at the base of the beak from the canker. The upper beak is worn down by the action of the lower beak and if they are not aligned, the upper beak will grow longer to the point that this bird will not be able to eat. Birds like this are usually kept and have to eat out of a deep dish. They lost the ability to pick up individual seeds from the ground. I don't know what you are going to do with an unreleasable bird but it's usually a death sentence to let her go back to the streets. Even if you were to get the bird over to Animal General or another vet and they cut the upper beak down, it's only a temporary improvement. This bird would need periodic trimming and for that to be done, the bird would have to be permanently housed. I guess you could say you have a tiger by the tail.


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