# chick not growing what to do?



## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

This is the second clutch, the first egg hatched 23rd june...it's a male and growing like a weed...starting to get white feathers. the second egg hatched 24 hours later, a hen, she was very small when she hatched. no bigger than my thumb. It's been a week today, she hasn't grown as she should have doubled in size by now, she is still not much longer than my thumb. Both parents are feeding her, she just isn't growing...what can i do, supplement the feeding or just let mom and dad. The cock is 3 times as big as the hen, he will be eating seed in a few days, the poor baby hen, barely eats, her crop look full most of the time, so i know mom and dad are feeding her. It took her most the the day to hatch out of her shell, she laid on her side after the shell was off of her...there was a mucus around her feet when i picked her up...the shell was broken in two and laying in the nest, so she was fully hatched. 

Any comments, suggestions, thoughts would be helpful! i've thought about supplementing her food, but then mom and dad have plenty...i think the chick isn't fully developed inside, i haven't seen her pooping, if she has it's very small...is that possible?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

What you can do is separate the bigger one who is getting most of their parents attention for some time when you put the feed and let them focus on the weaker one then put the bigger one back so that they will feed him too, I am afraid if she is not growing she will not last long. Their are many causes of small hatchlings like some food deficiency or some disease 

best of luck


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Mom abandoned her yesterday about 4pm, why? she was very cold, so cold mom couldn't keep her warm, the other chick was pulled away from the baby, mom left the nest. i found her very weak, empty crop and very cold, panting for breath. i cupped her in my warm hands and began blowing on her to warm her up. i had some organic honey, so i put a small amount with warm water in a plastic syringe---a new improved eye dropper with ML marked, so i had about 1 part honey and 2 parts warm water, i slowly forced fed her, and it seemed to revive her...i fashioned a 35W heat lamp (small floodlight) over another nest with lots of warm towels from the dryer in the nest, snuggled her in the towels under the light; she fell asleep, her breathing slowed. i had no baby formula..so i ran to petco and got some kaytee formula..i mixed 1 part formula and 2 parts hot tap water...it was luke warm after mixing...so i put the plastic syringe under hot tap water to warm it up, then force fed her...she took 2.5 ML...was warm, breathing normal, very skinny like she hadn't eaten in days...(i never thought mom would stop feeding her, didn't check on her regularly.) She got too hot under the lamp, she began panting again, so i cupped her in my hands and just held her, she fell back asleep, was very warm...so i decided to give her back to mom maybe she would finish feeding her. Mom turned her on her back, i saw the babies droppings from the honey mix...so i knew all was well with the baby, she just needed to be kept warm and food..i figured the kaytree would add weight to her, getting through the night would be a challenge, i believed mom would abandon her again, since she had no desire to finish feeding her. The cock in the meantime was pacing and growing...he watched my every move...when mom moved away from setting on the baby, i took her away and put her back under the light...i knew i couldn't leave her there so i heated towels in the dryer again and snuggled her in them..she fell tight asleep..i figured i'd take a nap so i could stay up all night if i had too...i woke up at 11pm, the baby was really cold, empty crop and panting...i picked her up and again blew on her...i put her back in the towels under the light and prepared her formula as before. i force fed her...to my surprise, there was an air bubble in the syringe, i should have checked it better...when i force fed the air bubble went in her tiny crop, she grasped for air and in my hands, died. The cock was watching me. After i was sure she had no heartbeat, i wrapped her in a paper towel, outside i buried under a shrub and her put a rock over her. The cock was groaning, i held him as i cried with him...what a terrible ordeal, i wish i could that last feeding...i believe i killed her because i was careless , no excuse even tho, my first time ever feeding a baby chick...i knew better, i didn't bleed off the food down to that little air bubble. It's a very sad day for me today, the father is still groaning, he hates me. 

thanks for your suggestion...it may have worked a few days ago,


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

how were you feeding. baby pigeons if not tube feeding need to put their beak in something and gulp the food not the other way around? so Im not sure what happend but also always make sure they are warm BEFORE feeding or the crop won't empty. this hatchling could of had some genetic problems that could not been seen and simply did not thrive so don't be so hard on yourself. 

just to say also baby pigeons can not be sexed at such young an age. we can guess the sex as they mature and act out or when they pair up. at about 5 to 6 months of age. Im not sure why you thought one was a cock and the other a hen as that would be incorrect unless you got a DNA test done.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> how were you feeding. baby pigeons if not tube feeding need to put their beak in something and gulp the food not the other way around? so Im not sure what happend but also always make sure they are warm BEFORE feeding or the crop won't empty. this hatchling could of had some genetic problems that could not been seen and simply did not thrive so don't be so hard on yourself.
> 
> just to say also baby pigeons can not be sexed at such young an age. we can guess the sex as they mature and act out or when they pair up. at about 5 to 6 months of age. Im not sure why you thought one was a cock and the other a hen as that would be incorrect unless you got a DNA test done.


hey spirit wings...yeah the syringe is like tube feeding..this maybe the reason mom couldn't feed the baby; she was too cold, mom didn't have the body heat to get her warm.....the feeding syringe i used; it's like a plastic eye dropper with a plunger inside of it that you can pull up and down, forcing medicine ... the vet gave it to me when i took Leelee in for respiratory rumbling...that is what i used to feed the baby last night...it's very small and delivers medicine/food very well, it fits inside their beak.

the first feeding went well, the baby was very warm, when i fed her at 7:30pm...at 11pm, she was very cold, i didn't know to warm her up first, i was anxious to get food in her because her crop was empty and she was cold, believing the warm formula would help warm her insides...i was careless, there was a tiny air bubble in the tube, i failed to check it on all sides...i was in too much of a hurry....

yes, you can sex babies ....i use a very small steel washer on a piece of thread...holding it over the back of their neck raising it up just slightly above their head, the washer begins to move by itself, either spinning around which means it's a cock, or swinging from head to tail, which means it is a hen.... i sexed both chicks at 3 days old, also you can tell by their vent...the male vent is like a smile...the female vent is like a frown...you can also look at the toes, a 4-7 day old cock toe, the middle toe is much longer ...a hen middle toe is about the same length as the other toes... the washer test, you can do on your birds today, the washer size goes to the weight of the bird....for a baby, i used the smallest size on one end and the next bigger size on the other end of the thread...i got the assortment of washers at the dollar store.

Thanks for telling me the baby had to be warm before feeding...i did not know...and yes, i think it is a genetic problem. this clutch is by mother and son...a friend has the mate to my hen, he got attached to him and he has heath issues, he says he can't do without Leland...anyway, i couldn't prevent mom and son from mating...i just kept throwing out the eggs when she laid them....this second clutch i let her have, she was desperate, she sat on the first clutch all by herself, for 20 days, of course she was on wooden eggs...i didn't have the heart to do it to her again...the breeder said he breeds mother to son with no problem, so i let her have the eggs...now i see why mother and son can't mate...the hen had too much of mom's genes, that's probably why she wasn't growing; or mom just didn't want to feed her....i do not know! I've learned a hard lesson that time...i am so compassionate, it still haunts me holding her when she died because i was stupid.

thanks for you help...i know better now.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

my edit didn't show up....

Since the baby has to be warm before feeding, mom didn't have enough body heat to warm up the chick...she was losing the yellow down, almost bare skin all over, that's why i believe she was so cold; mom just couldn't help it, so she left the nest without feeding...i just wish i had know all of this before yesterday, and had paid more attention to this baby's weight, i just figured she would be a very small white homing dove. now i know better.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Good news! The breeder just called me; he explained the problem, my hen was hatched too late, all the rich crop milk was given to the cock who hatched a day and a 1/2 earlier. Therefore, the hen didn't get the jump start she needed to double in size. He said this happens to him alot; what he does is take the late baby and put it in the nest with a newly hatched egg, and move the baby around amongst other new mothers for a day to get the rich milk the mother has for the first day...

how to solve this problem, it has nothing to do with genetics...it's all about the father wanting to set on the first egg too soon...what he does is when the first egg drops, he takes it away from the parents til the second egg drops, then he puts the first egg back in the nest, this way, they both hatch at almost the same time, in one day; this way both get the rich crop milk the mother has the first day.

He told me if it happens again, to bring the baby to him and he would have several new mothers feed it the first day since my cock is so inexperienced, and young too, he is only 7 months old. He told me there was nothing i could do even last week; except bring the baby to him. This is exactly what happened, the cock sat on the egg the frist day it was born, it was kept warm and incubation started immediately; he said most don't know this and believe incubation starts after the second egg is laid; not so...it depends on if the egg is kept warm, incubation begins...so i will take away the first egg til the second one drops from now on! Words of wisdom...my breeder has been raising white homing pigeons since he was 6 years old helping his father who raised white homers; the breeder is now in his forties....so, it wasn't me killing the baby, she was doomed because she hatched too late after the first egg hatched!


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

what do you feed your birds ?


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Jason Heidlauf said:


> what do you feed your birds ?


Racing pigeon mix by Purina...i add chopped raw peanuts and sprinkle minced garlic on top of this handful of food ...i have 3 white homers and one squab..i feed morning and evening.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im sorry you believe you can sex a hatchling. if it worked we all would be doing all those things. it is not a sure way to tell esp the toe one. all old time wives tales. 

Tube feeding is not what you describe so your wrong about that as well. tube feeding is when the crop needle or tube that is attached to the syringe with food in it goes directly into the crop and by passing being able to aspirate. 

the breeders explanination does happen, but usually the smaller one catches up if healthy. most birds hover over the first egg when layed and sit when the second is layed. if one hatchling is too much smaller than its nestmate then it has to be hand fed or fosterd out in which it grows just as the other or close to it, so not sure why your feeding did not keep it alive unless it just got too cold to recover or aspirated.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> Im sorry you believe you can sex a hatchling. if it worked we all would be doing all those things. it is not a sure way to tell esp the toe one. all old time wives tales.
> 
> Tube feeding is not what you describe so your wrong about that as well. tube feeding is when the crop needle or tube that is attached to the syringe with food in it goes directly into the crop and by passing being able to aspirate.
> 
> the breeders explanination does happen, but usually the smaller one catches up if healthy. most birds hover over the first egg when layed and sit when the second is layed. if one hatchling is too much smaller than its nestmate then it has to be hand fed or fosterd out in which it grows just as the other or close to it, so not sure why your feeding did not keep it alive unless it just got too cold to recover or aspirated.


well, spirit wings, i am 100% correct sexing 4 babies, with the washer test. The vent test is also inline with the washer test results...the vent test must be done before the baby is 7 days old, or before it starts to grow feathers, loses down. The length of the middle toe is also a condition that proves right for baby cocks...when all three are done and all point to the cock/hen sex...well, it isn't an old wives tale  Fact is i read about these tests written about on another pigeon blog, in England...who learned these tricks from chicken breeders who have to separate hens from roosters when they are babies....again, try the washer test on your grown doves....then you'll see it works.

all i had to tube feed the very small baby was what the vet gave me...i was in a hurt for time; the baby was very cold; mom abandoned it so i had no time to run to any store and hunt for what you described...i had to do the best i could with what i had. 

again, after talking to the breeder, my only choice to keep that baby alive was to take it to him and let him put it with his hens who were in their first day feeding their hatchings..he explained that the first day of the hatchlings; the mom has especially RICH crop milk, for 24 hours---this rich crop milk is what gives the babies the jump start on growth...my first baby a cock, hatched around 8:30am on the 23rd of june..the second baby a hen hatched at 8:00pm on the 24th..he said by then all the rich crop milk went to the cock, the mom had not enough for the hen to get the jump start on growth, that is why it didn't grow....he has 25 pairs setting/hatching right now, he could have easily fostered my baby amongst his pairs. So, had i known what the cause was as he described it to me, i could have taken my baby to him (he is 20 minutes drive from me) my baby would stilll be alive today had i known. Also, he advised me to not ever try and tube feed a chick---he said just bring them to him he has enough hens to take care of any chick that needs feeding! i learned a hard lesson, i won't let that happen again!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Ok' lol, I dont want to change what you think, but all these theroies have been studied and tried to no real facts or conclusion, using any one method anyone has at least a 50% chance of being right.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh no, it's happening again... Leelee has laid another egg, Monday night at 7:00pm...i did what the breeder said and took it away from her and am keeping it at room temperature. Leelee has been setting since then and no second egg....it's been over 24 hours... This is her 3rd production of eggs. The first ever laying , the first egg was laid at 7:00pm and by 10:30am the next morning the second egg was laid. 

She produced eggs a couple of times but i replaced them with wooden eggs and didn't pay any attention to the space in time between the first and second eggs.

Now, i am wondering if there is something in her food she is not getting that she needs to produce timely eggs...her first eggs i was feeding her regular purina pigeon food...i changed to the racing food when i was giving her the wooden eggs... is it the food that is causing the delay?

thanks for any help you can give me....if she doesn't lay the second egg within the 48 hours period...is the first egg i've withheld still good? Anybody else have this problem?


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