# all iridescent pigeon breeds



## terrylewis (Jun 23, 2012)

Are there any pigeon breeds that are completely irridescent .like all irridescent green or blue,ive seen the nurenberg swallows have it on there wings and feet but are there any that are completely irridescent


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Well there are archanges in bronze black wings and gold black wings.Many show breeds are shown in black which should have iridescents all over. The primary flights and the primary tail feathers dont give off iridescents ever though, i believe.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I have never seen iridescent flights or tail either, I think it has to do with the structure of the barbules that are different for these long feathers. Nor do white parts of the bird show much iredescence, though some may show a slight metallic sheen. Iridescence is most visible on dark / black parts of birds, and as such, most breeds that show extreme iridescence come in dark colours like black and t-pattern. Red pigments can also show a lot of iridescence, which is usually called bronze. 

The german color pigeon group definitely has the most iridescent of all birds. These include the archangel, nuremberg swallows, startlings and the like. Archangels especially are extremely iridescent and have at least a band of iridescence on each of the body and wing-shield fieathers. Arhcangels often have the extreme iridescence even in their nest feather, while most other iridescence in pigeons only start developing at the first moult.


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## dimerro (Nov 23, 2008)

There is a german breed called Glantztauben with extreme irridescence:

http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15t_3_culoare/53977640
http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15r_5_culoare_1/25399944
http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15e_partea_3/IRJRVUGZSMXJXOOMVLQ


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

dimerro said:


> There is a german breed called Glantztauben with extreme irridescence:
> 
> http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15t_3_culoare/53977640
> http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15r_5_culoare_1/25399944
> http://dinamergeani.sunphoto.ro/15e_partea_3/IRJRVUGZSMXJXOOMVLQ


I've never seen these before. Very interesting. Still part of the german color pigeon group.

Do you know whether these birds are spread or just mimic-blacks like the archangels? They seem to me to be related to the archangels just without the bronze.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, there are quite a few breeds that have a beetle sheen all over, on reds and blacks. Look for birds with grease quills.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

archangels with spread gene = firebird


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Henk69 said:


> archangels with spread gene = firebird


That is correct, I have such a bird in my loft, bred from a spread barb and an archangel. They show visible bronzing in the neck, but they still do not show iridescence all over, flights and tail is still not shiny.

I think that spread might actually inhibit iridescense somewhat, but I have to proove that still.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Have any of you heard of a correlation between amount of bronzing in the juvinile feathers of blacks compared to amount of iridescents later on? I was told by a breeder the strong bronze ticks on all the feathers come out to be really good. I have a few with varying degrees of bronzing but they haven't moult yet for a comparison. In each case I believe grease quills or the iridescent gene to be involved.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

In my experience, bronze ticked spread birds usually do show a lot of iridescence in the adult feathers, though not always. I do think the bronzing is separate from the gene for iridescence, but I am not sure about it's relation to grease quills.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

rudolph.est said:


> That is correct, I have such a bird in my loft, bred from a spread barb and an archangel. They show visible bronzing in the neck, but they still do not show iridescence all over, flights and tail is still not shiny.
> 
> I think that spread might actually inhibit iridescense somewhat, but I have to proove that still.



Problem is to get al genes pure again. The archangel set and maybe the spread too. I read they are worthy of their name firebird.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Henk69 said:


> Problem is to get al genes pure again. The archangel set and maybe the spread too. I read they are worthy of their name firebird.


In my opinion, even the het. archangel is worth that name. Prettiest bronze necked black I have ever seen.

It is impossible to take a picture though. The bronze and sheen is completely invisible in any pictures I have taken so far, and she just looks like a plain black.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> In my experience, bronze ticked spread birds usually do show a lot of iridescence in the adult feathers, though not always. I do think the bronzing is separate from the gene for iridescence, but I am not sure about it's relation to grease quills.


Nevermind about grease quills i dont think i have any birds with that, i dont know why i said that. The bronze and iridescence connection is intresting. I have some young feather up with iridescence and never see any bronzing while other come out with bronzing and no iridescence to later moult the iridescence in. So i guess the question is if they are seperated have you ever seen a bird with iridescence and bronzing in the nest. I dont know. Would you say that a bird that comes out with bronze ticks to later moult all iridescence feathers has the iridescence gene or would you percribe it to the bronze? Finally, do you think a bird who shows strong bronzing early on may have a stronger expression of iridescence than one that shows it in the nest?


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Print Tippler said:


> Nevermind about grease quills i dont think i have any birds with that, i dont know why i said that. The bronze and iridescence connection is intresting. I have some young feather up with iridescence and never see any bronzing while other come out with bronzing and no iridescence to later moult the iridescence in. So i guess the question is if they are seperated have you ever seen a bird with iridescence and bronzing in the nest. I dont know.


I have seen such a bird, in fact I have a youngster like that now. It is an F2 from an archangel project of mine (from crosses to a bronzed bar sooty dirty homer) , and is mimic black without the archangel bronze gene. It shows some iridescence already (just fledged) but has extreme bronze ticking all over the body. It's sibling is arhcangel bronze and shows not bronze ticking anywhere else, but does show a suppreme amount of iridescence already.


Print Tippler said:


> Would you say that a bird that comes out with bronze ticks to later moult all iridescence feathers has the iridescence gene or would you percribe it to the bronze?


I think they are probably separate genes which both cause iridescence. The iridescence gene that has been described, and which archangels cary does not show bronze. I have mated an iridescent archangel cross to a black homer, and the young are exremely shiny, but never has never shown a single bronze ticked youngster. This could also mean that spread just inhibits the bronze ticks, but I doubt it, since the bird needs to be black or mimic black to show proper iridescence in the first place.
Secondly (and separately) we have the bronze ticked iridescent gene, which in my opinion can be found in many breeds - blue bar homers are often bronze ticked in the nest - but since the breeds do not have many blacks or they are bred for sport rather than show, no one ever noticed. I am plannign to mating by bronze homer to some black homers that show no iridescence and see what I get.


Print Tippler said:


> Finally, do you think a bird who shows strong bronzing early on may have a stronger expression of iridescence than one that shows it in the nest?


I believe that strong iridescence in the nest, usually means strong iridescence as an adult. The most shiny Archangels and their ilk show extreme iridescence even as the feathers come in, since their iridescence is a change to feather structure. I think that bronze iridescence is much less intense, but I have not made sufficient study to call these opinions facts.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Thanks for all that. I ask a lot. I should have been more clear about the iridescence and bronze being together in the juvinile feathers. I meant it having the bronze ticks while having iridescence in the shield. I have a bird that came out with heavy bronzing all around along and a really weak but there iridescence in the neck but I was wondering if you can have both across the whole bird.

Here is the bird old photos as he is mid moult now


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Iridescence in the neck is not that uncommon, even in juveniles. I was mostly talking about iridescence in the shield, even in juvenile plumage, which is rather more rare. Bronze ticking usually shows up in the head / neck and breast, but I have also seen quite a few with the bronze esding on the body and even shield feathers too. I am unsure whether both can express on the same bird, but logically can see no reason why not.

Your youngster is rather unique (at least from my perspective), in that it is so dark (almost a mimic black) without actually having the dark feet I would expect with dirty. Maybe this is proof as I have long suspected that mimic blacks (sometimes called extreme dirty) have nothing to do with dirty at all. I don't suspect your bird will have a lot of iridescence in the shield though.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

This bird of mine is spread and smokey. Well like I said its half way in a moult I'll post pictures when the sun is up. Each new feather coming in is iridecent along with the feathers around the vent area. I made sure the camera was exposing for the black and wasn't just blowing it out.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Print Tippler said:


> This bird of mine is spread and smokey. Well like I said its half way in a moult I'll post pictures when the sun is up. Each new feather coming in is iridecent along with the feathers around the vent area. I made sure the camera was exposing for the black and wasn't just blowing it out.


I suppose it's just me seeing what I want to see... I would've wondered whether this bird was spread, since it looks almost exactly like a velvet mimic black I bred in archangel F2's. I've never bred a black that looks like this. Smoky or no...

Still strange to see the light feet and beak on a black. All my spreads smoky birds are also dirty, so their beaks are not as light, nor their feet. Have you ever seen a light beak (smoky) turn dark over time? The beaks of my spread smoky dirty birds do, though some of them re only het smoky. They start light with a dark tip, and over time, become completely dark


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I've seen a light beak smokey turn to a dark tip early on. These bird is a New York Flying Flight and it's in the standard to have a clean beak free of any black. That is what I have seen even on adult birds. Though many are neared or have a piebald running straight from below to above the beak. So one could also say that piebald could be causing it. This bird is just past 3 months old now.

I tired to take some photos. I don't have a good enough camera or lights. It wasnt showing me what I was seeing in person. It lighten his black up a lot.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

The tail for what's it worth.










If you want new or different pictures let me know. He is my pet tame bird and doesn't mind too much.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Looking at the tail closely, you are definiely right about the spread.

I know the trouble of taking pictures (especially of iridescence). I've given up really. Though you've done a pretty good job. It looks like your bird is moulting in nicely, and will definitely be a shiny black, though maybe still not quite as iridescent as archnagels. I love shiny black birds with white wings, pearl eyes and light beaks. The contrast makes for a stunning effect.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't think he would be as good as archangels. They were the first pigeons I bred but didn't keep them long. It is a very striking combination. A blood red cere helps too. He also has "white socks" or a little white near the feet which I like, that also is in all Flying Flights.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I have noticed that all my white-flighted birds have the white socks too. Though it is rare or missing in birds that do not have WF or another kind of pied...


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