# for sale .. BENZING Express G2



## altuwaijri_loft

Hello members 

I have a new BENZING Express G2 for sale , its new and unused and i didnt store any data on it .... Why sell ? becouse I want to buy BENZING M1.

about BENZING Express G2

Great value
Can record 250 pigeons
Distance from G2 to loft antennae: up to 100 meters
Can clock 20 pigeons per second (subject to number of antennae used)
Full graphic display of all information
Use of modern, powerful CPU
Ready to use - ‘out of the box’
Fully compatible with all club systems
Complete with 2 FREE 1-field ultra-slim landing pad.

the price is : 230 GBP = 370 USD ... "the price is without shipping"

Im in kuwait .. if anyone want to ask about a things please email me ...

[email protected] ​


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## kalapati

would you be willing to accept payments after this item has been shipped to my home since you live abroad? i can quickly send you money in US dollar or your converted currency thru paypal.

let me know.


kalapati
San Diego


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## altuwaijri_loft

kalapati

Thank for replay ... Im sorry I cant , I would rather wait until you are ready plus the shipping fees.​


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Is it safe to assume that this is a European model which requires an adapter ?
What would the shipping amount be ? Do you have a pay pal account ?


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## [MN]eXist^_^

Shipping abroad is scary! IMO purchased plsOnline from Poland the bank can't even trace a darn thing! And can't do a darn thing. GL.


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## kalapati

altuwaijri_loft said:


> kalapati
> 
> Thank for replay ... Im sorry I cant , I would rather wait until you are ready plus the shipping fees.​




what's your guarantee that i can get this merchandise as soon as i send you my payment?



kalapati
San Diego


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## SmithFamilyLoft

kalapati said:


> what's your guarantee that i can get this merchandise as soon as i send you my payment?
> 
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego


 He may be a very honest, straight forward guy. But, if he is not, and you send your money and nothing arrives in the mail, then what exactly is your recourse ? Complain to the goverment of Kuwait ?

Now, if he has sold things on ebay before, and has developed a reputation, and he places the item on ebay, then perhaps you would have some idea of who he is. Or if you are buying from an established business, where you can check with previous buyers, you might have some idea who and what you are dealing with. 

There are just too many scams going on with overseas sellers of goods. With no disrespect to this seller, I would suggest "Buyer Beware".


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## DEEJAY7950

I am curious,I would like to know why the switch from this clock to the m-1??? I mean just how many birds does any one really need to clock? So I assume that there is some operational aspect that is a big plus to switch to the m-1, the reason I'm asking (if anyone knows) is that I'm going to an ETC in the near future with some members and the benzing is what we are looking at either G-2 or M-1 so other than the amount of birds what exactly is the major difference that the M-1 has over the G-2? I know some have said it's like a Chevy compared to a Mercedes but what real useable features make it a better buy! Thanks for all and any input you have!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

DEEJAY7950 said:


> I am curious,I would like to know why the switch from this clock to the m-1??? I mean just how many birds does any one really need to clock? So I assume that there is some operational aspect that is a big plus to switch to the m-1, the reason I'm asking (if anyone knows) is that I'm going to an ETC in the near future with some members and the benzing is what we are looking at either G-2 or M-1 so other than the amount of birds what exactly is the major difference that the M-1 has over the G-2? I know some have said it's like a Chevy compared to a Mercedes but what real useable features make it a better buy! Thanks for all and any input you have!


Little off the topic, but it is a very good question. If cost is a major consideration, then the G-2 has less features, but gets the job done, and is still more user friendly then some other cheaper and older models. The value to the M-1, besides that it does have more capacity then any typical fancier is ever going to need, but is needed for huge One Loft type events. But, the real value to me, is it is simply more user friendly. You can look at the face of the unit and instantly tell what is going on. It is much more easy, IMHO, to go through the unit's menu and select options. Also a plus, is I can enter time of release and distance, and it will display a count down of the YPM as the race is ongoing, and can actually have numerous races going on at the same time like auction, regular, A, B, C, etc...and be able to look at face of clock and know what's going on. I can train a Jr. member to knock off the clock and print out race reports in just a few minutes. It is just more easy to operate, but I need things more simple. And the reports it does print out seem more readable to me. I purchased one with the large antenna, and I'm sure it was near $1100-$1200. I could have saved several hundred, but in the 6 years I have used it, I would spring for the M-1 all over again. I suspect that for majority of fanciers starting out, the G-2 will be a lot more tender on the wallet. And at some point in the future, if you cared for your clock, you should be able to sell it and upgrade. If you have used a mechanical one all these years, you will not want to ever go back, it gives you freedom you never knew existed.


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## Mindy

I'm curious, when did you buy it? And you never said if you have a pay pal account. And why wouldn't you just put it on ebay and would you put it on ebay so everyone is covered? min


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## altuwaijri_loft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Is it safe to assume that this is a European model which requires an adapter ?
> What would the shipping amount be ? Do you have a pay pal account ?


Yes Its safe to assumet in with European models and there is no need for an adapter ... 

I'll send it with Fedix or aramex , the shipping to Europ maybe will cost 150 euro. 

No, I dont have paypal account becouse its dosen't receive any amount from out side the regeion.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

kalapati said:


> what's your guarantee that i can get this merchandise as soon as i send you my payment?
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego



If you want me to send the Benzing to you and after that you will send the money for me , keep your money for your self i dont want to sell it .. im the seller !!​


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## altuwaijri_loft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> He may be a very honest, straight forward guy. But, if he is not, and you send your money and nothing arrives in the mail, then what exactly is your recourse ? Complain to the goverment of Kuwait ?
> 
> Now, if he has sold things on ebay before, and has developed a reputation, and he places the item on ebay, then perhaps you would have some idea of who he is. Or if you are buying from an established business, where you can check with previous buyers, you might have some idea who and what you are dealing with.
> 
> There are just too many scams going on with overseas sellers of goods. With no disrespect to this seller, I would suggest "Buyer Beware".


Thank you !!​


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## altuwaijri_loft

DEEJAY7950 said:


> I am curious,I would like to know why the switch from this clock to the m-1??? I mean just how many birds does any one really need to clock? So I assume that there is some operational aspect that is a big plus to switch to the m-1, the reason I'm asking (if anyone knows) is that I'm going to an ETC in the near future with some members and the benzing is what we are looking at either G-2 or M-1 so other than the amount of birds what exactly is the major difference that the M-1 has over the G-2? I know some have said it's like a Chevy compared to a Mercedes but what real useable features make it a better buy! Thanks for all and any input you have!


Benzing M1 :

High performance, state-of-art 32 bit processor with 16Mbytes of RAM.
Extra large display for clear legibility.
Unique and simple user guidance system.
Management of up to 1,000 pigeons and 4 fanciers, if required.
Connect up to 32 antennae ring recording pads (subject to union acceptance).
USB allows convenient transfer of statistical date to home PC.
Pigeon velocity on display.
Possible to operate with two standard AA batteries. 


BENZING Express G2

Great value
Can record 250 pigeons
Distance from G2 to loft antennae: up to 100 meters
Can clock 20 pigeons per second (subject to number of antennae used)
Full graphic display of all information
Use of modern, powerful CPU
Ready to use - ‘out of the box’
Fully compatible with all club systems
Complete with 2 FREE 1-field ultra-slim landing pad.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Mindy said:


> I'm curious, when did you buy it? And you never said if you have a pay pal account. And why wouldn't you just put it on ebay and would you put it on ebay so everyone is covered? min


-when did you buy it ?

in last two months.

-And you never said if you have a pay pal account

No , I dont have.

-And why wouldn't you just put it on ebay and would you put it on ebay so everyone is covered?

I didnt use ebay before and if you want to use ebay you most have a paypal , if you use the paypal in kuwait you most send a money you cant receive a money.​


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## Mindy

Well the only thing I can suggest is if maybe you get someone else involved, maybe a respectful member of this site and you send the Benzing to them and whoever buys it sends the money to the third person and then the third person sends the benzing to the person that buys it after they pay for it and then the third person sends the money to you. That way everyone is happy and No one can get screwed, not that anyone would do that, but when your dealing with some peope nowadays you never know. But I would trust some people from this site for sure. Just a my suggestion. min


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## altuwaijri_loft

Mindy said:


> Well the only thing I can suggest is if maybe you get someone else involved, maybe a respectful member of this site and you send the Benzing to them and whoever buys it sends the money to the third person and then the third person sends the benzing to the person that buys it after they pay for it and then the third person sends the money to you. That way everyone is happy and No one can get screwed, not that anyone would do that, but when your dealing with some peope nowadays you never know. But I would trust some people from this site for sure. Just a my suggestion. min


Thank you for the compliment ... But you do not want to buy and plenty of questions ... And I respect your opinion and I respect the site

Do not teach me something about respect please ... Because I am a champion from Kuwait .. There are heroes come to visit me from all countries of the world .. and i have a many pigeons from all europ and you teach me for benzing with a low price ... are you afraid or what !!

You say this .. Obviously you are a new fancier. 
​


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## Mindy

Well what if a champion here in the states wanted to buy it, would you send it to them and then they would send you the money after they received it? When you are dealing with other countries you have to expect to bend alittle and trust alittle. And if your a champion then you should have NO problem selling it to people that visit you. I wasn't teaching you about respect I was just offering a suggestion. Good Luck, and Happy holidays. mindy


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## Xueoo

You guys are not understanding each other. Slow down before enemies are made. 

Seller doesn't want to send without payment because of fraud.

Buyer doesn't want to send money because of fraud.

SAME THING! 

Just say "yes" or "no" and leave it at that. Nothing else needs to be said.


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## altuwaijri_loft

Mindy said:


> Well what if a champion here in the states wanted to buy it, would you send it to them and then they would send you the money after they received it? When you are dealing with other countries you have to expect to bend alittle and trust alittle. And if your a champion then you should have NO problem selling it to people that visit you. I wasn't teaching you about respect I was just offering a suggestion. Good Luck, and Happy holidays. mindy


Are you a spokesman for the members of the America ?

Or you and counsel on their behalf ?

You do not want to buy .. You do not do anything .. And want to be the protector of America's money

I think you're an important man at the White House or the like , Stay away from this subject, my son

I liked your discussion so I want you to visit me I'll give it to you without money.


end​


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## Kenneth Flippen

*clock*

does this clock run on 110volt and 60hz or is it 220voltz?


Kenneth


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## DEEJAY7950

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Little off the topic, but it is a very good question. If cost is a major consideration, then the G-2 has less features, but gets the job done, and is still more user friendly then some other cheaper and older models. The value to the M-1, besides that it does have more capacity then any typical fancier is ever going to need, but is needed for huge One Loft type events. But, the real value to me, is it is simply more user friendly. You can look at the face of the unit and instantly tell what is going on. It is much more easy, IMHO, to go through the unit's menu and select options. Also a plus, is I can enter time of release and distance, and it will display a count down of the YPM as the race is ongoing, and can actually have numerous races going on at the same time like auction, regular, A, B, C, etc...and be able to look at face of clock and know what's going on. I can train a Jr. member to knock off the clock and print out race reports in just a few minutes. It is just more easy to operate, but I need things more simple. And the reports it does print out seem more readable to me. I purchased one with the large antenna, and I'm sure it was near $1100-$1200. I could have saved several hundred, but in the 6 years I have used it, I would spring for the M-1 all over again. I suspect that for majority of fanciers starting out, the G-2 will be a lot more tender on the wallet. And at some point in the future, if you cared for your clock, you should be able to sell it and upgrade. If you have used a mechanical one all these years, you will not want to ever go back, it gives you freedom you never knew existed.


As usual Warren you have sold me on the m-1 Thanks for your input, Have a happy holiday for the rest of the year!


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## Mindy

You know what I have bit my tongue long enough. First off I am a WOMAN!! Second, a friend of mine was interested and I would feel responsible if he didn't get what he paid for but forget it I wouldn't buy a piece of gum from you. Third, you are very rude. Forth, what does the White House or a counsel have anything to do with this. This is a membership forum that people come on here to ask questions, get suggestions, get advice, get answers. I was NEVER rude to you and you have been nothing but rude to me. 

I would never leave the good ole USA, ever. If you come visit me, I will take you up on your offer and take it for no money. MINDY


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## altuwaijri_loft

Mindy said:


> You know what I have bit my tongue long enough. First off I am a WOMAN!! Second, a friend of mine was interested and I would feel responsible if he didn't get what he paid for but forget it I wouldn't buy a piece of gum from you. Third, you are very rude. Forth, what does the White House or a counsel have anything to do with this. This is a membership forum that people come on here to ask questions, get suggestions, get advice, get answers. I was NEVER rude to you and you have been nothing but rude to me.
> 
> I would never leave the good ole USA, ever. If you come visit me, I will take you up on your offer and take it for no money. MINDY




the end ... 2nd member !!! NEXT ... Its for sell​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Kenneth Flippen said:


> does this clock run on 110volt and 60hz or is it 220voltz?
> 
> 
> Kenneth


its 220v ,,, but you can use the adapter​


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## conditionfreak

I understand not wanting to send the clock before receiving payment
I also understand being extremely cautious about buying something from another country, given that any legal recourse would be very difficult (if not impossible) if the item is never received or is received in a condition other than what you expect. 

This type of transaction can be fairly safely done by using PayPal, but since that is not an option. In my humble opinion, I would NOT do this transaction, no matter how enticing the cost is. It's going to cost approximately two hundred bucks USD, just to get it here anyway.

I know the seller will use big bold letters in his posting to basically tell me that if I ain't interested in buying the clock myself, then stay the hell out of his business. But I ain't. Whether he likes it or not. Champion flyer or not. His attitude about the questions stinks. Who in their right mind would NOT ask questions or be leary of doing this transaction.

The old saying, "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is not true" applies.

Sell your clock to someone in your area and everyone will be happy.

Those considering buying should not be so greedy that they lose a lot, trying to save a little. There are other clocks around. A difficulty in language differences can lead to misunderstanding quickly. If it "does not need an adapter", yet "you can use the adapter" doesn't illustrate this, then good luck.

I did a google search on altuwaijri loft and came up with nothing. I also did google searches on altuwaijri race, altuwaijri pigeon and several other mixes. All with nothing indicating anything to do with pigeon racing.

Maybe some references are in order, if you care to bother. I suspect you do not.


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## altuwaijri_loft

conditionfreak said:


> I understand not wanting to send the clock before receiving payment
> I also understand being extremely cautious about buying something from another country, given that any legal recourse would be very difficult (if not impossible) if the item is never received or is received in a condition other than what you expect.
> 
> This type of transaction can be fairly safely done by using PayPal, but since that is not an option. In my humble opinion, I would NOT do this transaction, no matter how enticing the cost is. It's going to cost approximately two hundred bucks USD, just to get it here anyway.
> 
> I know the seller will use big bold letters in his posting to basically tell me that if I ain't interested in buying the clock myself, then stay the hell out of his business. But I ain't. Whether he likes it or not. Champion flyer or not. His attitude about the questions stinks. Who in their right mind would NOT ask questions or be leary of doing this transaction.
> 
> The old saying, "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is not true" applies.
> 
> Sell your clock to someone in your area and everyone will be happy.
> 
> Those considering buying should not be so greedy that they lose a lot, trying to save a little. There are other clocks around. A difficulty in language differences can lead to misunderstanding quickly. If it "does not need an adapter", yet "you can use the adapter" doesn't illustrate this, then good luck.
> 
> I did a google search on altuwaijri loft and came up with nothing. I also did google searches on altuwaijri race, altuwaijri pigeon and several other mixes. All with nothing indicating anything to do with pigeon racing.
> 
> Maybe some references are in order, if you care to bother. I suspect you do not.



Thank you for this comment ...

But we dont use the G2 in Kuwait , we use M1 only .. its better for us.

I want to know something, why many of you comment ? 

If the item you do not like it , dont tire your fingers , and looking for me in google, you will want affinity ? .... Many of speech and the question, I do not know how you are behaving in your life process.​


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## Mindy

If your a big champion didn't you know that they only use the M1 in Kuwait before you purchased the G2? I mean you say you just purchased it 2 months ago were you a champion 2 months ago? The reason why so many respond is because this is what this forum is for. Its called FREEDOM OF SPEACH here in the USA. You should be happy that so many are asking questions instead you give us attitude and a very rude one. Don't worry about my little fingers, they don't get tired. THE END!!! mindy


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## conditionfreak

Dear Abdul I am behaving like a normal human being who cares about his fellow men and women. Some of us do not turn a blind eye when we see another being taken advantage of. We instead get involved. My intentions are honorable. I do not have a dog in this fight, but I do care anyway. I hope you success in selling your clock, but I seriously doubt it will be purchased by someone in another country other than Kuwait.
If your club does not use the G2, then why did you buy it in the first place? There must be a misunderstanding in your use of the english language and my comprehension of what you are writing. But you do a whole lot better in english than I would in arabic, so I give you respect for that ability.


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## Big T

altuwaijri_loft said:


> Thank you for this comment ...
> 
> But we dont use the G2 in Kuwait , we use M1 only .. its better for us.
> 
> I want to know something, why many of you comment ?
> 
> If the item you do not like it , dont tire your fingers , and looking for me in google, you will want affinity ? .... Many of speech and the question, I do not know how you are behaving in your life process.​


You make a very good point. I have not commented before because I am not interested in buying the clock. Many people here are commenting but are not interested in buying. People, any time you buy you take a chance, but then any time you cross the street you take a chance. If I was interested in buying I would follow this sellers advice and google him, email him, ask all the questions and then decide based on that. Too many people are getting involved that have nothing to do with the sell. If you are interested in the clock comment, if not don't. As far as getting screw in a purchase, I have been screwed buying at the local walmart as well as on the internet buying in the good old USA. This man is willing to give answers to any buyer, I would buy his clock if I had a need. If you are not interested in buying stop harrassing him. Please!!!!

God Bless,
Tony

PS You know, I have bought birds and the sellers have always wanted their money up front. I mail them a check and some, becaused they have been burned, waited until it cleared to sent me my birds. This was discussed and agreed upon before the buy. This man is asking nothing more than that so why are we treating him any different, because he is from Kuwait?


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## Aviephile

Hi All,
I *am* in the market for a clock, and I am grateful for this thread. I would have been hesitant about buying from overseas anyway, no matter what country it was. This thread has exposed the discrepancies in the information provided by the seller, as well as his attitude. That, combined with the fact of no protection for the buyer and ultimate protection for the seller (he gets the money first and he's a long way away), has convinced me that this would be a bad deal.
I'll keep looking...
Best Regards! Bill KU4QB


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## conditionfreak

Yes. I personally am treating him differently because he is from Kuwait. Not that I have anything against Kuwait citizens, but because there is absolutely no recourse if the transaction "goes bad". I would do the same if he was in Sweden or Poland.

I think that it is funny that one will post here, when they are not interested in the clock, but their posting berates others that post here, that have no interest in the clock.

My interests in this thread are basically the same as yours. You want him to stop being harassed and I want to alert those "trusting soles" out there that they need to think twice. Not that they should NOT purchase the clock, but there are a lot of pitfalls from buying a clock from a complete stranger in another country.

There are red flags all over this offer. No PayPal. No references. No Ebay feedback rating offered. No phone numbers or addresses. Contradictry statements. etc. It is hard for me to imagine that a secure way of making payment is not avialable, such as PayPal or BidPay. None has been offered or mentioned.

My goodness man. If YOU were selling a clock on here, woudn't you be able to provide a reference or ten from the pigeon racing community? Or be able to provide an Ebay name reference? Or maybe even a picture of the item to at least ascertain some sort of condition. Even a simple scan of a race result showing his name and what club he belongs to? After all, he is a "champion" flyer.

This sellers only contribution to this site prior to offering this clock for sale, was one posting in April, that consisted of three words. I believe they were "very nice work" or something similar, in connection with someones pics of a new loft they had made.

That's it.

Credibility and trust have to be earned. Not demanded. At least in my world.

I have nothing against this person. Absolutely nothing. But I am a retired cop and when I see the "potential" for a problem, I feel compelled to point it out. It is in my nature. Just like if I see a child with unusual bruises in Wal-Mart. Should I keep my mouth shut? They could be innocently "earned" by the child. But maybe, just maybe, not. I will get a license plate number and call 595-KIDS and tell them what I saw. No more and no less. Then let the chips fall where they may.

"Bad things happen when good people do nothing".


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## Big T

Look, everything I read tells me different. He is a fireman that bought a clock he cannot use in his country. Not only cannot use but cannot sell. So he is a man that doesn't want to sale locally because that would be dishonest when his small country doesn't use it. He posted on this site to sell to someone who can use it. His pictures of the unit look new. He has also tried to answer everyone's questions even the ones that do not want to buy. He has also been polite to thank you for your comments even when he disagrees with you. He also doesn't understand why we waste our time typing about something we do not intend to buy. This is a culture thing. Ya'll say you are looking out for everyone interest but what about his. I agree with warning people of a dishonest person but he has done nothing to prove he is that. If he has ripped somebody off that you know about, then warn people. But to say to buy across countries can get you burned so do not do it. Well guess what? I have made many buys and have been burned by Americans or people pretending to be American, (Nigerian Scam), so I should warn everyone not to buy from Americans. 

So help a fireman set up a paypal account, teach him how to make the sale out of country instead of comdeming him for living in another country. I bet in Kuwait a google search will show his name. But I can only find limited info on Kuwait pigeon racing and most of that is due to pigeons being bought by Kuwaits in Europe. We are dealing with a language issue and that is why the search engine is limited. Remember, he is not a merchant use to selling, but a fireman with pigeons as a hobby, (sound familier). We are also dealing with a language and culture difference. I guess because of my travels in the Navy and memories of Desert Storm help me to understand the difference. 

This forum is world wide, so we all need to remember that all the friends in pigeons will think, feel, behave, and act different than we do. This does not make them wrong or us right, just different. 

God Bless,
Tony


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## conditionfreak

Yea. I understand where you are coming from. I have been to many countries also. In both the Marines and the Navy. But come on. I didn't want to "go there", but this doesn't pass the smell test.

Why did he buy it in the first place if his "country" does not use the G2? If he is a "champion" flyer, and not some rookie. Then how does he make that mistake?

Where is one single reference? Another flyer who is on the internet, or a scan of a racing result with his name on it? Surely a "champion" flyer can find one around somewhere or better yet, on the internet. I have been flying a total of one young bird season and I can provide at least two dozen well known and established flyers, for my own credibility if it was necessary.

I could go on and on, but what is the use. He offered his wares to the entire world and when asked a few simple questions, got an "attitude" because someone would dare to question his integrity. On a CHAT forum, and not even in the correct section of this forum. We have a section for "wanted and for sale" stuff.

He could have answered some simple questions and been done with it. Instead, he chose to attack Mindy and others with broken english comments, that clearly show disdain that anyone would dare to question him.

What the heck did he expect? Someone to send him some money on complete trust? No security at all?

As far as your other comments, "foreign" countries are notorious for attempting scams on the internet. Sure, there are scammers galore in the U.S. also. But if we get scammed here, we have some legal recourse. There is NONE when dealing with someone overseas.

Would you buy a pigeon from someone in Belgium that you never heard of, without any references at all? Without some sort of name recognization or the ability to at the very least, conduct an internet investigation. How about the same from Nigeria or Somalia? Just send me the money and I will send you a son of Sure Bet?

I have checked this persons name every which way I know how. There is nothing to be found. I have a daughter in law in Kuwait right now. An E-6 in the Air Force. I could email her and ask her to check with a pigeon club there (I'm asuming she could locate one) and see if this person even exists. Surely they will have heard of a champion flyer such as he.

If he comes on here and asks me to do that. I will. Otherwise, I will assume that he does not want that to happen. Maybe out of "being caught" or maybe just out of indignation. Who knows at this point and frankly, who cares.

Again. A champion pigeon racer who bought a clock that no one in his entire country uses?

Come on. If he is such an idiot, then how can you trust him to send you a package and have it arrive safe and sound. And this offer comes at the same time that another thread is currently going that discusses "moving up" from a G2 to an M-1. Coincidence?

I really do not care one wit about this clock or this man. But as I stated previously. When I see a the potential for a scam, I make sure that the potential scammer knows that we are all not stupid "over here". Just because I advertised a litter of puppies on the internet two years ago, I get contacted all the time, by scammers wanting to buy a dog in "strange" ways. They want to send me four times what the dog cost, then send someone to pick up the dog and me give them the difference in cash. They have all kinds of reasons why it needs to be done this way.

Nothing but scams.

I even had a parrot for sale once and this guy calls me and asked if he could buy a puppy and I told him I did not have any puppies for sale, that I only had a parrot for sale. He immediately tells me he wants to buy the parrot and then asks what color it is.

I hung up on him. A female called back the next day and said she wanted to buy the parrot. I heard the same mans voice in the background and the caller ID was the same number.

Now, maybe they were just two idiots. But who in the heck wants to do transactions with two idiots. I sure would not want someone like that owning one of my babies.

The world is full of scammers and most of them are on the internet. Most also use the word "respect" a lot.

Scammers prey on the greedy. They usually make the deal sound to good to be true. It usually is.

Sell the darn clock in Kuwait, Dubai or Jordan. Surely someone closer than the U.S. wants a good pigeon clock at a good price. I believe that pigeon racing is bigger there than in North America.


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## conditionfreak

And you won't have to use an adapter.


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## altuwaijri_loft

Mindy said:


> If your a big champion didn't you know that they only use the M1 in Kuwait before you purchased the G2? I mean you say you just purchased it 2 months ago were you a champion 2 months ago? The reason why so many respond is because this is what this forum is for. Its called FREEDOM OF SPEACH here in the USA. You should be happy that so many are asking questions instead you give us attitude and a very rude one. Don't worry about my little fingers, they don't get tired. THE END!!! mindy



in kuwait use the tauris clock , but in the last mounth change it with benzing , and that is the first benzing in kuwait , I bought it before they reach Kuwait , but we like the M1 and I have M1 in my loft.​


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## bbcdon

If you are serious about selling here in the US, I recommend that you use a third party escrow service to handle this transaction.


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## altuwaijri_loft

conditionfreak said:


> Dear Abdul I am behaving like a normal human being who cares about his fellow men and women. Some of us do not turn a blind eye when we see another being taken advantage of. We instead get involved. My intentions are honorable. I do not have a dog in this fight, but I do care anyway. I hope you success in selling your clock, but I seriously doubt it will be purchased by someone in another country other than Kuwait.
> If your club does not use the G2, then why did you buy it in the first place? There must be a misunderstanding in your use of the english language and my comprehension of what you are writing. But you do a whole lot better in english than I would in arabic, so I give you respect for that ability.


Thank you , I buy M1 becouse its receive 1000 pigeons , G2 receive 250 pigeons. and the landing board of G2 is too small..the M1 have a many of a good options thats all.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Big T said:


> You make a very good point. I have not commented before because I am not interested in buying the clock. Many people here are commenting but are not interested in buying. People, any time you buy you take a chance, but then any time you cross the street you take a chance. If I was interested in buying I would follow this sellers advice and google him, email him, ask all the questions and then decide based on that. Too many people are getting involved that have nothing to do with the sell. If you are interested in the clock comment, if not don't. As far as getting screw in a purchase, I have been screwed buying at the local walmart as well as on the internet buying in the good old USA. This man is willing to give answers to any buyer, I would buy his clock if I had a need. If you are not interested in buying stop harrassing him. Please!!!!
> 
> God Bless,
> Tony
> 
> PS You know, I have bought birds and the sellers have always wanted their money up front. I mail them a check and some, becaused they have been burned, waited until it cleared to sent me my birds. This was discussed and agreed upon before the buy. This man is asking nothing more than that so why are we treating him any different, because he is from Kuwait?


thank you very much​


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## altuwaijri_loft

conditionfreak 

Your words are many, and I do not have time to read the whole speech

But in short, it is obvious you are carrying a lot of talk, but like I said before you tire of your fingers.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Big T said:


> You make a very good point. I have not commented before because I am not interested in buying the clock. Many people here are commenting but are not interested in buying. People, any time you buy you take a chance, but then any time you cross the street you take a chance. If I was interested in buying I would follow this sellers advice and google him, email him, ask all the questions and then decide based on that. Too many people are getting involved that have nothing to do with the sell. If you are interested in the clock comment, if not don't. As far as getting screw in a purchase, I have been screwed buying at the local walmart as well as on the internet buying in the good old USA. This man is willing to give answers to any buyer, I would buy his clock if I had a need. If you are not interested in buying stop harrassing him. Please!!!!
> 
> God Bless,
> Tony
> 
> PS You know, I have bought birds and the sellers have always wanted their money up front. I mail them a check and some, becaused they have been burned, waited until it cleared to sent me my birds. This was discussed and agreed upon before the buy. This man is asking nothing more than that so why are we treating him any different, because he is from Kuwait?


thank you very much !!!​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Big T said:


> Look, everything I read tells me different. He is a fireman that bought a clock he cannot use in his country. Not only cannot use but cannot sell. So he is a man that doesn't want to sale locally because that would be dishonest when his small country doesn't use it. He posted on this site to sell to someone who can use it. His pictures of the unit look new. He has also tried to answer everyone's questions even the ones that do not want to buy. He has also been polite to thank you for your comments even when he disagrees with you. He also doesn't understand why we waste our time typing about something we do not intend to buy. This is a culture thing. Ya'll say you are looking out for everyone interest but what about his. I agree with warning people of a dishonest person but he has done nothing to prove he is that. If he has ripped somebody off that you know about, then warn people. But to say to buy across countries can get you burned so do not do it. Well guess what? I have made many buys and have been burned by Americans or people pretending to be American, (Nigerian Scam), so I should warn everyone not to buy from Americans.
> 
> So help a fireman set up a paypal account, teach him how to make the sale out of country instead of comdeming him for living in another country. I bet in Kuwait a google search will show his name. But I can only find limited info on Kuwait pigeon racing and most of that is due to pigeons being bought by Kuwaits in Europe. We are dealing with a language issue and that is why the search engine is limited. Remember, he is not a merchant use to selling, but a fireman with pigeons as a hobby, (sound familier). We are also dealing with a language and culture difference. I guess because of my travels in the Navy and memories of Desert Storm help me to understand the difference.
> 
> This forum is world wide, so we all need to remember that all the friends in pigeons will think, feel, behave, and act different than we do. This does not make them wrong or us right, just different.
> 
> God Bless,
> Tony



Thank you for this comment , the paypal in kuwait just send the money only and does not receive , not like USA , but they didnt understand that words.
please members If there are any doubts, do not you purchase or comments on the subject.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

bbcdon said:


> If you are serious about selling here in the US, I recommend that you use a third party escrow service to handle this transaction.


tell me who you can make this , i will do it .​


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## altuwaijri_loft

Aviephile said:


> Hi All,
> I *am* in the market for a clock, and I am grateful for this thread. I would have been hesitant about buying from overseas anyway, no matter what country it was. This thread has exposed the discrepancies in the information provided by the seller, as well as his attitude. That, combined with the fact of no protection for the buyer and ultimate protection for the seller (he gets the money first and he's a long way away), has convinced me that this would be a bad deal.
> I'll keep looking...
> Best Regards! Bill KU4QB


you can save your money , thats the best thing .....​


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## bbcdon

Me personally, I would google search for escrow companies, contact them, and hopefully find one that could carry this out.


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## altuwaijri_loft

Thank you for all the replies 

This is a simple message to all of the doubts raised about the item. 

This is just a worthless good does not mean anything for me, that was sold here or not 
But I have a simple question, just an hour of dollars a simple Ttheron by this uproar!! 

If you want to buy a car or bus or house, what would you do? 
I think you carry the weapons of hidden, but a strong attack you, 

This is proof that you were worried, even in yourselves , and not even thinking of buying a spoon until the price of one dollar, take a look outside the window of your home, and saw how people behave and are treating him with each other.

Do not look for people, and consider yourself ..

This letter is not for everyone ... But only to those who raised uproar.​


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## altuwaijri_loft

bbcdon said:


> Me personally, I would google search for escrow companies, contact them, and hopefully find one that could carry this out.



its better , thats good for us.​


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## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Yea. I understand where you are coming from. I have been to many countries also. In both the Marines and the Navy. But come on. I didn't want to "go there", but this doesn't pass the smell test.
> 
> Why did he buy it in the first place if his "country" does not use the G2? If he is a "champion" flyer, and not some rookie. Then how does he make that mistake?
> 
> Where is one single reference? Another flyer who is on the internet, or a scan of a racing result with his name on it? Surely a "champion" flyer can find one around somewhere or better yet, on the internet. I have been flying a total of one young bird season and I can provide at least two dozen well known and established flyers, for my own credibility if it was necessary.
> 
> I could go on and on, but what is the use. He offered his wares to the entire world and when asked a few simple questions, got an "attitude" because someone would dare to question his integrity. On a CHAT forum, and not even in the correct section of this forum. We have a section for "wanted and for sale" stuff.
> 
> He could have answered some simple questions and been done with it. Instead, he chose to attack Mindy and others with broken english comments, that clearly show disdain that anyone would dare to question him.
> 
> What the heck did he expect? Someone to send him some money on complete trust? No security at all?
> 
> As far as your other comments, "foreign" countries are notorious for attempting scams on the internet. Sure, there are scammers galore in the U.S. also. But if we get scammed here, we have some legal recourse. There is NONE when dealing with someone overseas.
> 
> Would you buy a pigeon from someone in Belgium that you never heard of, without any references at all? Without some sort of name recognization or the ability to at the very least, conduct an internet investigation. How about the same from Nigeria or Somalia? Just send me the money and I will send you a son of Sure Bet?
> 
> I have checked this persons name every which way I know how. There is nothing to be found. I have a daughter in law in Kuwait right now. An E-6 in the Air Force. I could email her and ask her to check with a pigeon club there (I'm asuming she could locate one) and see if this person even exists. Surely they will have heard of a champion flyer such as he.
> 
> If he comes on here and asks me to do that. I will. Otherwise, I will assume that he does not want that to happen. Maybe out of "being caught" or maybe just out of indignation. Who knows at this point and frankly, who cares.
> 
> Again. A champion pigeon racer who bought a clock that no one in his entire country uses?
> 
> Come on. If he is such an idiot, then how can you trust him to send you a package and have it arrive safe and sound. And this offer comes at the same time that another thread is currently going that discusses "moving up" from a G2 to an M-1. Coincidence?
> 
> I really do not care one wit about this clock or this man. But as I stated previously. When I see a the potential for a scam, I make sure that the potential scammer knows that we are all not stupid "over here". Just because I advertised a litter of puppies on the internet two years ago, I get contacted all the time, by scammers wanting to buy a dog in "strange" ways. They want to send me four times what the dog cost, then send someone to pick up the dog and me give them the difference in cash. They have all kinds of reasons why it needs to be done this way.
> 
> Nothing but scams.
> 
> I even had a parrot for sale once and this guy calls me and asked if he could buy a puppy and I told him I did not have any puppies for sale, that I only had a parrot for sale. He immediately tells me he wants to buy the parrot and then asks what color it is.
> 
> I hung up on him. A female called back the next day and said she wanted to buy the parrot. I heard the same mans voice in the background and the caller ID was the same number.
> 
> Now, maybe they were just two idiots. But who in the heck wants to do transactions with two idiots. I sure would not want someone like that owning one of my babies.
> 
> The world is full of scammers and most of them are on the internet. Most also use the word "respect" a lot.
> 
> Scammers prey on the greedy. They usually make the deal sound to good to be true. It usually is.
> 
> Sell the darn clock in Kuwait, Dubai or Jordan. Surely someone closer than the U.S. wants a good pigeon clock at a good price. I believe that pigeon racing is bigger there than in North America.


As far as the smell test, most scammers would not go to this extreme to defend, just see the "NO SALE" and move on to the next victim. Also most scammers know people do not buy from overseas so they pretent to be American and try to get you to wire money. Most important he has made it clear, if you do not want to buy OK. So take his advice, don't buy. I for one, would be pissed if in trying to sell my car, a bunch of strangers kept pushing my buyers away just because I *might* be selling a lemon. bbcdon gave him the help he needs to give a buyer a little insurance. Also by posting here he is letting the world know it is for sale, not just North America. Why can't we all get along????

God Bless,
Tony


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## conditionfreak

I'm done with this thread. I have made everyone aware of my thoughts on this offer. I can not argue with "most" and "tired fingers" and whatever other nonsense is put forth here.

It is a clock people. A clock on the other side of the world. If you want it, go for it. No one is stopping you. Might as well have him throw in a couple of champion pigeons while you are at it.

If you try to sell a used car on the internet, to someone in Tibet, I expect you will not be able to. Why???? (love those four question marks together. Looks cool)

Because they will want some kind of guarantee that you actually have a car and will actually send it to them. That's why.

Geesh. I can't believe there are no G2 clocks in the U.S. to be had. I bought an entire Unicon system with two antennaes and 120 chip bands, all for 300 bucks. It all works fine. I got it from a stranger in my area. It was like new in the box. I guess I could have looked overseas but it just didn't occur to me to do that. Silly me.

Abdul. Good luck with your clock sale, windows and weapons. I truly do wish you good luck in your sale, in your pigeon racing and in your life. I have no animosity towards you or anyone else on this forum. I have no reason too. I am just alerting the unfamiliar to internet scams, and foreign purchasing hazards, of which I am very familiar with.

Big T. If you want to quote Rodney King, then I will quote Ronald Reagan. Buy American. Quit sending American dollars overseas. We have too few dollars here as it is.

Seigels Pigeon Supply sells a new one for $595.00 with no fear of being scammed. To purchase this one from Kuwait will cost you approximately $562.00 USD (includes shipping)with apprehensions.

You choose.


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## Wingsonfire

conditionfreak said:


> I'm done with this thread. I have made everyone aware of my thoughts on this offer. I can not argue with "most" and "tired fingers" and whatever other nonsense is put forth here.
> 
> It is a clock people. A clock on the other side of the world. If you want it, go for it. No one is stopping you. Might as well have him throw in a couple of champion pigeons while you are at it.
> 
> If you try to sell a used car on the internet, to someone in Tibet, I expect you will not be able to. Why???? (love those four question marks together. Looks cool)
> 
> Because they will want some kind of guarantee that you actually have a car and will actually send it to them. That's why.
> 
> Geesh. I can't believe there are no G2 clocks in the U.S. to be had. I bought an entire Unicon system with two antennaes and 120 chip bands, all for 300 bucks. It all works fine. I got it from a stranger in my area. It was like new in the box. I guess I could have looked overseas but it just didn't occur to me to do that. Silly me.
> 
> Abdul. Good luck with your clock sale, windows and weapons. I truly do wish you good luck in your sale, in your pigeon racing and in your life. I have no animosity towards you or anyone else on this forum. I have no reason too. I am just alerting the unfamiliar to internet scams, and foreign purchasing hazards, of which I am very familiar with.
> 
> Big T. If you want to quote Rodney King, then I will quote Ronald Reagan. Buy American. Quit sending American dollars overseas. We have too few dollars here as it is.
> 
> Seigels Pigeon Supply sells a new one for $595.00 with no fear of being scammed. To purchase this one from Kuwait will cost you approximately $562.00 USD (includes shipping)with apprehensions.
> 
> You choose.


I hate U, I paid 450 for mine with two antenna's and just 10 bands, I just saw yours is a Unicon lol that is why the price difference lol


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## calzephyr

Hey, I'm a new member here and have been a lurker for a while. This forum is a great source for information. But remember, it's a forum. A forum exists to encourage the free flow of ideas and communication.

This thread has really gone sideways. It boils down to this-

A person came to the forum and tried to conduct an international business transaction. This requires two things;

1) a certain amount of skills to clearly communicate your offer and attract buyers and,

2) conducting yourself in a business-like manner and knowing what is expected in an international internet business transaction.

The person offering the G2 timer for sale evidentally has failed to meet one or both of the above criteria. Nothing more than that. Leave feelings, personalities and cultures out of it. It is business and must be conducted in a business-like manner, or else you won't succeed in making the sale. End of story.

-CalZephyr


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## kalapati

calzephyr said:


> Hey, I'm a new member here and have been a lurker for a while. This forum is a great source for information. But remember, it's a forum. A forum exists to encourage the free flow of ideas and communication.
> 
> This thread has really gone sideways. It boils down to this-
> 
> A person came to the forum and tried to conduct an international business transaction. This requires two things;
> 
> 1) a certain amount of skills to clearly communicate your offer and attract buyers and,
> 
> 2) conducting yourself in a business-like manner and knowing what is expected in an international internet business transaction.
> 
> The person offering the G2 timer for sale evidentally has failed to meet one or both of the above criteria. Nothing more than that. Leave feelings, personalities and cultures out of it. It is business and must be conducted in a business-like manner, or else you won't succeed in making the sale. End of story.
> 
> -CalZephyr



EXACTLY!!!


i have deep respect for people no matter how, where, what his/her position in life is. the annoying big bold-letter reply he gave after i asked for what assurance i can have on this item when he receives my payment is not an acceptable business-like manner. and i didnot bother responding anymore.



kalapati
San Diego


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## yopigeonguy

frig!!!!!!! If you want to buy then contact him and get to know him, and if you don't... well !wave goodbye and move on to the next thread


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## TAWhatley

I think it's time to close this thread. Those who have an interest in pursuing the selling or purchasing of this product can take it private by PM or e-mail.

Terry


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