# New Pigeon owner question



## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi, 
I am brand new to pigeons, and just got a really nice pair of Fairy Swallows. Thing is, I am wondering if they would normally be paying attention to each other, if they are indeed, a pair. I have checked pelvic bones and the breeder told me that they are a pair, but what seems like the hen is bigger (broader) than the cock, and they more or less just ignore each other. No real interaction. Nothing good, nothing bad. Is this simply because it's winter, and they are not interested in nesting and breeding right now, or could I (and the breeder) be mistaken in identifying genders? I have felt the pelvic bones twice, and came to the same conclusion both times. Just odd that the hen seems more masculine than the cock. Is this normal? Should I just give them time to settle and for the season to change so they get more "in the mood"?


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## wolverine (Jul 29, 2009)

First of all how old are the birds?


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

The breeder told me they are "about a couple years old". The one who I am pretty certain is the cock has a band, but I'm not sure which number indicates the year he was hatched. Looks like (If I am reading it right, similarly to a chicken band) he was hatched in 2011. Makes him three rather than 2 years old. The hen is not banded.


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

There is an "11" in the middle of the print on the band...if I can get ahold of him I'll read the whole band and put that info in here. He's pretty flighty still. 

And ok, so I read the band... it reads NPA 13 11 FG 908

Sooooo it seems this guy is more than "a couple years old". Is this going to make a difference in breeding this pair?


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## wolverine (Jul 29, 2009)

It almost sounds like you might have 2 hens.....the 13 and 11 are band size and the year but I'm not sure which is which


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

That was what I was kind of afraid of. The larger one has a definite gap between the pelvic bones but the smaller of the two doesn't...bones nearly touch. I will be disappointed if they both end up being hens. Only other thing I guess I could do is DNA testing but I hate to make them cry LOL! I know using blood from the toenail has to hurt like heck, and if I can yank feathers I'd rather do it that way. Thinking this may be the only way to know for sure


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## wolverine (Jul 29, 2009)

Imo DNA testing isn't needed for pigeons. They are easy enough to sex. My cocks are going crazy now. So unless the bird is sick he should be cooing.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Band size?


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

wolverine said:


> Imo DNA testing isn't needed for pigeons. They are easy enough to sex. My cocks are going crazy now. So unless the bird is sick he should be cooing.


The one who I "think" is the cock is healthy, eating, drinking, pooping, happy. They both are in great shape, but I am kind of leaning toward being sold two hens for sure. Now I don't spend a lot of time out with them either, so I COULD be missing some behavior. But when I am watching them, they're normally just sitting watching me, or eating. 

Gah. LOL We shall see, I suppose, once they get more settled in. I've only had them here a week. Attached a picture. Now of course, the bird with the trimmed muffs is supposedly the hen. I wish I had a photo of them just side by side, since this photo makes the front bird look even BIGGER compared to the other. One thing I did notice, the "cock" is darker and does have much more irridescent feathers around his neck and shoulders... 

Do you guys think they may just be still too new here to be showing their trie colors? Or is it more likely for sure that I got sold two gals? If that's the case, I'll have to start looking for a couple cocks.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

If they are hanging around the nest together, and there is difference of space between the pubic bones it is most likely a pair unless one of them is a hen that has never laid...... Not likely due to the assumed Age.


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

Cool! I'll just be patient with them then  Thanks. I am sure they think I stare at them way too much anyway  They have finally started listening and tipping their heads when I talk to them now, so I think they're starting to relax a bit


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

If you are eager to Breed them make sure they are getting at least 18 Hours of light a day. 
If they are only getting Natural light this time of year, they will show little interest In Breeding. 
Shortest length of day of the Year is Dec 21st..... Length of the day dictates the breeding Cycle of Pigeons, as well as most Birds.
When increasing the day length, i do it in increments of 4 hours a week, although I am Positive you can do it all at once with no problem.


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

I'd like to get babies as soon as I can, but ATM they are just getting natural light, so it makes sense that they are on a "natural" cycle. I used to show chickens, and those suckers don't care... they'll have chicks year round. But yes, I am positive you've hit the nail on the head. It's winter, so they're just not concerned with breeding. Thanks for the tips! I appreciate it. Very very new at this, and I'm mostly wanting a few pretty birds to show


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

You are Welcome! I LOVE Pigeons.. Watch and learn as you are doing.
I do believe Pigeons have evolved with a special relationship with man just as Dogs have. 
Caring about pigeons is Natural to Mankind Is there any nation on earth with out Pigeon fanciers? I know there is not. If a person does not like pigeons, in my eyes, they are mutants, and unnatural creatures (LOL!)


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## wolverine (Jul 29, 2009)

Lshould tellCKYT said:


> If you are eager to Breed them make sure they are getting at least 18 Hours of light a day.
> If they are only getting Natural light this time of year, they will show little interest In Breeding.
> Shortest length of day of the Year is Dec 21st..... Length of the day dictates the breeding Cycle of Pigeons, as well as most Birds.
> When increasing the day length, i do it in increments of 4 hours a week, although I am Positive you can do it all at once with no problem.


Someone should tell my flights this


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

LOL, how long have they been on the long day?


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

LUCKYT said:


> You are Welcome! I LOVE Pigeons.. Watch and learn as you are doing.
> I do believe Pigeons have evolved with a special relationship with man just as Dogs have.
> Caring about pigeons is Natural to Mankind Is there any nation on earth with out Pigeon fanciers? I know there is not. If a person does not like pigeons, in my eyes, they are mutants, and unnatural creatures (LOL!)


I am already in love with these birds. I have done a lot of reading and I am thrilled to have found a great community of pigeon lovers and fanciers. I agree with the mutant statement, btw. 

Thanks again! I'm going to be around here on the boards absorbing as much as I can.


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## wolverine (Jul 29, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> LOL, how long have they been on the long day?


They are not on a long day.....


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

My frillbacks are still breeding albeit at a reduced pace outside in cold and natural light. How long have you had this pair?? What type of coop/pen are they in? Photos? They may just need some time to settle in to new accomodations before behaving "normally". What color is the band?? That should also indicate the year. Last year (2013) NPA bands are blue. Pretty birds. Looks like the one in front is the cock and the one in back is the hen. Did you have these shipped from far away or is the breeder near by? Enjoy them!!


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

Woodnative said:


> My frillbacks are still breeding albeit at a reduced pace outside in cold and natural light. How long have you had this pair?? What type of coop/pen are they in? Photos? They may just need some time to settle in to new accomodations before behaving "normally". What color is the band?? That should also indicate the year. Last year (2013) NPA bands are blue. Pretty birds. Looks like the one in front is the cock and the one in back is the hen. Did you have these shipped from far away or is the breeder near by? Enjoy them!!


I've only had them for a bit over a week, so I imagine they are still letting the whole thing sink in. They are in a 2' wide x 4' long x 4' high pen with three shelves (like bookshelf style) at one end to nest/perch in. I'll try yo get more photos after I get my camera looked at..I dropped it and the shutter button is not working :< The band is yellow, so I'm going to have to assume that the "11" means the year of hatch. And they came from Iowa..I am in Texas. Thanks, I think they are realyl pretty.  Funny thing is, the bird in front is the one the breeder said is a hen (and who has the gap the size of texas between her pelvic bones) and the one in back has no gap. See why I thought the bigger one was the hen?? So used to chickens where they make their gender quite plain LOL!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Some birds will breed in the short day period, this Time of year What really gets them going, is along photo period. with out a doubt. 

Breeding this time of year you really should have them on a long day, the squeeks get much more feed, and go with out for less time... I believe in winter breeding.... BUT not on a short day. Squeeks will not get the advantage they should get in the cold weather. Just because they breed on a short light cycle does not mean they should. 
All my Birds on lights, are all on Eggs, or have Young about to wean. the pairs on natural Light in the aviary, Rarely show interest until early Feb. or so.


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## Aschenfire (Nov 30, 2014)

Hahaha guess what? After several weeks of waiting and watching, my birds laid their first egg for me. My FIRST guess, simply based on size and build of each bird as far as gender went, was right. My little hen is sitting tight on the nest tonight, and the cock growled at me when I opened the flight cage. I am pretty thrilled. They should make some pretty babies.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hahah good, love to see the babies. When I had my first white birds, could not tell cock from hen either. It was awhile before they paired up and gave me bubs. They had to settle in first and sounds like yours finally just did.


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