# Baby with no mom



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi, I know nothing about Pigeons and have a question - I had 2 eggs that hatched on the side of my window ledge, mom and dad took turns taking care of the little ones. It has been 2-3 weeks and for the last few days I did not see mom or dad.
4 days ago dad saw me and flew away and since then he has not been back.
(or at least that is what I think). How long can they go without food?

I had a look tonight and the little ones are still alone. I placed some grains and water near by but now wonder if that was a good idea. If the parents return and see the food or smell me (do they?) would they not come back?

do I not open the window to have a look? I could not get to them so the option is to leave them alone or to try and leave food daily.
Do the parents leave the nest for most of the day/night at this age?

Any advise is appreciated

Thanks
peta


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At that age, the parents are typically working on another nest and tend to leave the chicks somewhat alone except for feeding. It's a myth that if you handle them or feed them that the parents will abandon them. It's possible that they're being fed without you knowing it. As long as they're pooping good, they're being fed.

Pictures?

Pidgey


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks, Sorry no pics as I am visiting here in Israel and no way to download the pictures but I must say it has been the first time I have seen baby pigeons. I will not be able to leave now untill I know the little ones are going to be ok.

So, there is lots of poo around but is it more then has been a week ago? no way to tell.
Do I leave food for them or do I just leave them alone?

If mom or dad return they would have to walk over the food to get to the nest, is that a problem?
Thanks
Peta


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

peta said:


> If mom or dad return they would have to walk over the food to get to the nest, is that a problem?
> Thanks
> Peta



That would not be a problem. They might appreciate the snacks.

Reti


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you so much. The 2 babies are still there but no sign of mom or dad. Will just have to trust nature


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

peta said:


> Thank you so much. The 2 babies are still there but no sign of mom or dad. *Will just have to trust nature *


Sorry, can't agree with this statement. As long as the babies appear healthy and fed, then you are probably just missing the feeding times. If these babies appear to become listless and look like they are not being cared for, then you may need to intervene. There's a always the possibility of something happening to the parents through no fault of their own, except that they were born pigeons. I hope you'll keep an eye on the babies and help them if they need it. Nature can be cruel sometimes and although nature usually takes care of its self, there's no reason we can't step in and help her out if need be.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

*concerned*

Very concerned, have not seen the parents for a few days, left food but it has not been touched (am I leaving the right thing, sunflower seeds, oats, bread?)
Had a look this morning and one baby looks to be sitting on top of the other and he appears not to be moving - the bottom one. it is very dificult to see or get to them as they are in a very narow area at the end of the window (the window slides in to that section)
well, I can not get in there to get them out.

Any advise, please, do I throw food in there?

thank you so much

Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Is there a way you could put a net on a pole and get to the birds from there? It sounds like the parents may not be able to get back to the nest for whatever reason and that the babies may not make it much longer. If you are able to get them, you will probably need to start some emergency care for them. We have several threads out there that can address what to do if you have to take over for the parents. I will see if I can locate a couple, and post links to them for you, but it will be quiet for awhile as most of the forum has logged off for the day.


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Here are a few links for you to look at.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11265

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13600
(this one is about providing heat to babies -- yours may be a bit older, but still if they haven't been fed for several days, they may need some heat)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9556

These three should provide you with enough information to get you going on caring for these little ones.
Hope you are able to retrieve them. From the sounds of it, they need your help to make it.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you so much, it is no nice to know that I can get help here and that there are people that care, I am in Israel and if I say I want to help a pigeon they all think I am crazy.
anyway, I placed a mirror so I can have a look at them without opening the window, I will have a look every hour today and tonight to see if the parents are back, if not then I will have to try and get them. They look to be around 3 weeks althugh it is hard to tell from the pictures on the web.

The baby that sat on top of the other moved and I can see that they are both breathing, so will keep an eye on them all day. 

Again, thank you so much for the help, will have a look at the links provided
Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Peta, unfortunately, people have a very jaundiced view of sharing their urban and office scapes with pigeons -- wherever in the world you are  

I'm glad to hear the birds are both moving; they should be leaving their nest area for some little adventures on foot and starting to test those feathering wings soon. Keep a good close eye on them because if they haven't started to do explore the world beyond the nest and the parents don't come back, you will have to become their best friend  and help them that last little way to grow up and be pigeons that own the sky. 

Keep us posted -- I'm sure someone here can help you devise a pigeon-scooping device if need be.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks Flitsnowzoom, I have been watching them all day and they are both moving, one looks to be cleaning him/herself but no sign of 'food' arriving.
If the parents are around, how long would they stay for when they feed? could they come and go within 30 min?
I tried calculating the age gain - they must be 11-14 days old. Do the parents stay in the nest area with the babies at this age or do they stay someplace close by? 

What age do they start exploring?

Any good pigeon sites I can look up?

Thanks again
Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Peta -- it's too young for the babies to be on their own, especially since they aren't really too mobil. Parents come and go, but if you don't see them sometime during the day then the babies aren't going to do well much longer. You may be looking at "pigeon intervention"  
This is about the best site I know of for finding out about how to care for the babies and youngsters.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Ok, have not seen any adult around the nest today but the 2 babies have been moving around. 
Do I wait another day?
should the mom be there at night? I am still on hourly checks with a flash light - no mom. but if she has not been around, would they still be ok after 3 days alone? If she is around, would she stay the night or go away again?
Am I just missing her? This is so difficult.

If I get them out - how do I do this? do I wear gloves? (not even talking about how I get out on the ledge and somehow 'fish' them out )
I noticed lots of small black flees - or something in that family, so I would not think I could bring the birds in the house. Could I leave them in a box on the balcony? Problem is even in the shade it is warm out there.

food? water? would they know how to eat? and most important how long before they fly away. I would have to hand over the job to someone once I leave the country.

Thanks for the help

Peta


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi, I am sorry to be at it still but I am so unsure as to what to do. It will not be easy at all to get to the babies and not even sure that I can and so looking for other options.
If they have not been fed for the last 2 days would they be moving around and keeping head up? saw one stand for a few seconds today - all this via the mirror 

it is past midnight here and no sign of mom, do I throw grains to the babies? I left food as close as I could but they would have to come out and they don't. They are in a space that is about 10 cm wide by 50 long.

Thank you so much
Peta


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Peta,

Why don't you go ahead and bring the babies in. We really need to know if they have been fed or are eating on their own. Once you have them, feel the crop area to see if there is any food in there. If the crops are empty, then the babies are in need of your help. If the crops are full, then you will know that the parents are caring for them or that they are eating on their own.

JMO ..

Terry


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Peta,
I think you need to bring them in. Is there a way you can rig a net on a pole that can extend down that narrow ledge? Is the ledge closed in on either side so the birds won't slip down into a narrow creivasse that they cannot get out of? The babies are too young to be eating on their own. It's something they learn so they probably don't recognize seeds as food at this point. The fact that the food that you have left out there is not being touched indicates that the parents can't / won't be able to come back or they're so used to fast-food that they don't recognize good food.

If the babies have been left on their own for this amount of time, they are reaching the end of their reserves and need to have help asap.


----------



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Peta,
If they are 11-14 days old, they can't be eating on their own. They usually don't eat on their own until 3-4 wks. So throwing food to them won't help. This site shows you pigeon growth by day to help figure out the age:
http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

This is about how to feed them if you bring them in:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

If they have mites/flies, they can be dusted with permethrin powder, which would kill anything.

They usually can fly by 4-5 weeks or so, though not necessarily that well.

It's obvious you're very concerned for the babies...so you really should just try to get them, though it does sound difficult logistically. 

Good luck!

Sabina


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi TAWhatley, Flitsnowzoom and Sabina,

Thank you for taking the time to write me back. I have managed to take some pictures and will post them, the little ones look ok this morning but no sign of any adult.

I have no idea what to do with them even if I get them out as the people I am staying with refuse to take care of them, so will have to leave them where they are untill I come up with a solution. 

Would the mirror cause a problem if I leave it in place? 

they seem to be standing and moving a bit, so maybe the mom comes at times I am not looking and is there only long enough to feed. How often would she come during the day or night?

thanks again

Peta


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Peta,

Where in Israel are you and how much longer will you be there? I have one or two contacts there for pigeons and other birds that might be able to assist if they are anywhere near you.

I can't tell from the picture if the crops are full or not, but the babies appear to be in pretty good condition.

Terry


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At that age, it's pretty much only the father that's taking care of them. Mom's probably sitting on eggs full time somewhere else. Dad only comes around long enough to feed and he might be keeping an eye on you, too. He doesn't need much more than a minute or two for each one a couple of times per day.

Pidgey


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I had posted yesterday at the same time Terry posted and told you just the OPPOSITE of what she told you. So, I deleted my post. But.......Those babies look just fine to me. Their eyes are bright, feathers good and they certainly don't look starved. It's been 4 days since you posted about your concerns. If those two little ones had not been fed for 4 days, the picture you took would certainly show a different set of baby birds. I believe they are ok and are being fed and taken care of and you are just missing the feedings. I personally would leave them alone. If you can check on them every day, and if they seem to go down hill for some reason, then maybe yes, you'll need to intervene, but my personal opinion is let Dad and Mom keep doing what they are doing, even if you don't see them do it.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Given that the babies seem to be in good condition, just keeping an eye on things should be fine. If that changes, then you will need to intervene, and I can still try to round up some help for you if you like. I may not be successful in that regard but would be happy to try just in case help is needed.

Terry


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you all so much. I can't help but worry about them but as you say they do look ok in the picture. I have seen then move so they must be ok. I also noticed that once a day they move closer as if they are waiting for something/someone. maybe I am missing the feeding. would they be done during the day? if the dad comes and goes withing a few min, I would probably miss him even with my hourly checks when I am around.

I still have a mirror positioned so I can see them without having to open the window, good/bad idea?

TAWhatley, I am in Haifa. If there was someone I could talk to here that would be great.
I will be here till the 19th of June. 

I presume from what I was reading on other threads that by opening the window and looking at them I would not scare the parents away, they would just choose a time to come when I am not around - is this correct?

I am sure that once I get back home (England) I will have a new view of pigeons  this has been a real education.

will keep you posted and as always - thanks

Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Lovely portraits and cute little ones  Still have a bit of their baby down, but getting big. 

I think you've followed a wise course to monitor the babies. Please continue as long as you're there. I'm so glad you've been able to enjoy them (okay, worry about them  ) and watch them grow. Just think, two young birds will be flying high soon that you helped keep safe, and as a bonus, English pidgies have a new friend in you.

One good thing about where they are is that it doesn't look like they could get wedged in somewhere so you couldn't get them out should you have to mount a pidgie intervention. It doesn't sound like you'll have to do that though -- whew!


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Still no sign of any adults but the little ones seem to be the same. (was up at 2AM and 6AM to try and catch Dad, but no such luck) Babies are moving, so I would agree that they must be getting food. I will continue to keep an eye on them. Wish I knew someone that could come and have a look at them.......would make me feel better.

flitsnowzoom, you are right, should I have to get them out, there would be no risk to them, but will approach the subject again should I have to for more advice.

Wondering about the mirror, would seing a reflection keep the adults away?

Thanks

Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I don't think that a reflection would keep the folks away especially if it's been there fairly constantly since you've been monitoring. The birds are likely aware of the mirror but unless there is a movement toward the parent bird, they probably aren't going to bolt. 
Boy, this watching for Dad sounds almost as bad as my nights  (my cat insisted on me getting up about every hour last night and up finally at 5:30 AM because "there's a fox in the yard, can I go out too?" Dern, I wish the cat had a snooze button


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Don't you just love cats....the snooze button idea is great!! 

Thanks for the mirror advise  

One last look for the night - they seem to be cleaning themselves - did they do that at that age?

peta


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Peta,

The bird people that I know in Israel are in Eilat. That appears to be some distance from Haifa. I've e-mailed them anyway asking for a phone # just in case you need to speak with someone.

Terry


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks alot, Eilat is too far away but they might know soemone here in Haifa, so if you get the number I would love to talk to them.

Question - can someone tell how old the little ones are from the picture? From the site provided earlier they appear to be 21-22 days, so what age is it that they start leaving the nest?

Thanks as always


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

They should be around three weeks old. In about a week they will start wandering around and trying their flying skills.

Reti


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you Reti, glad I will still be around to see them do this


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi there, 8 days since my first post and the little ones are not so small any longer so it appears that I worried for nothing. I wanted to say that I apreciate all the help I received and the great advise. No sign of any adults coming around but they must as the little ones are still moving and growing

Next thing is how do we keep the parents or any other pigeon from having a nest here agin? The apartment owners do not want to have to deal with this again. 

Thanks
Peta


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Peta, 
Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a guardian angel, especially the young and helpless. You were ready to step in and that is what is important. Thanks for being there for them. 

Once the pidgies have cleared out, then the owners need to secure the place with very small mesh netting or a solid block in front of the area so pigeons or other birds cannot get in there. They need to make sure that no animal is trapped back there when they secure the area. I can't imagine a worse fate than being trapped and beating oneself senseless or breaking body parts to try and get out. Animals will gnaw off a leg to escape a leg-hold trap, people will amputate an arm or leg to escape the same fate when they are trapped. Birds deserve no less consideration from us.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Not to worry flitsnowzoom, I will leave instructions with them and I know they will clear the area first. I would hate to think of any animal trapped. Thanks for the advise.

I am waiting for the little ones to take their first steps out of the nest, hope they do it soon


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi all,
It has been 2 weeks since my first post and even though I have not seen mom or dad around it is obvious they have been around as the little ones are not that little any longer. Today for the first time I saw one of them take a walk out of the hiding place, what an excitement it was.

I just wanted to say to all of you again thank you so much for all the help and advise. I am sure I would have done the wrong thing and removed them when they were doing just fine.

flitsnowzoom - I have created an L shape cover from wood for the area for when the little ones leave the nest. I would love them to come back but I don't think they will be welcomed next time, so once they leave, the area will be cleaned and closed off. 

Have some pictures that I will post once I am back home

Peta


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for letting us know the outcome of those two little babies.
Will be waiting for pics.
Have a wonderful trip.

Reti


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I was beginning to wonder if the babies were all grown and gone. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to make a block for any future pigeon families. The next person might not have been so kind and it certainly doesn't sound like the owners have an interest in having a nursery in there. 
We're certainly looking forward to pictures.


----------



## peta (Jun 4, 2007)

*Update and pics*

Hi again, 

I just wanted to post an update on the little ones.
I was told that they have left home a few days ago and have not been seen since then. So, they had someone feeding them even if I did not get to see them in action  

On my last day in Israel the little ones came out for a walk and I took as many pictures as I could of them via the mirror, so sorry if they are not too clear but I must say it was an exciting moment. I felt like the proud mother sending her children off.

Thanks for all the help!!!

Here is the link for the pictures, I am sorry I do not have anymore of them in early days but I did not want to disturb the parents J, that was before I thought about the mirror.

http://web.mac.com/b744/iWeb/Site/Last Roll.html 

(please ignore the attached RAF file to the pictures, asked dear husband to create the page for me and it was attached to an existing one)

Thanks for being there when I needed help

Peta


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the update and the pics, Peta. The babies looks really good and all grown up now.

Reti


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks for posting the pictures. They are lovely!

I can imagine how thrilled you were to see the "launch" and I'm glad they thanked you for watching over them in such an exciting way.

Glad you made it back home safely and please pop in from time to time to say "hi".


----------

