# PMV bird with blood in poops



## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello everyone,

I have found two pigeons with symptoms of PMV in my yard(throwing of seeds,turning of head side to side). The first was found over two weeks ago and the second last week. This morning I went to check on the one found last week and noticed a couple of bright red short stringy marks of blood on her white towel. This is the first time I have noticed this and it has been continuing on throughout the afternoon. More stringy blood and watery discoloured liquid along with green poop. I am worried about her, she weighs approximately 275 grams now though when I found her she weighed 245 grams. Any idea of why this may be happening and what I can do to help her?

Thanks, Vesna


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vesna,

One of the things that can happen, when a bird has PMV, is that secondary infections can take hold since their body is in a weakened state. The best thing to do would be have a vet to a fecal exam on the bird. In the absence of this being possible, I think if you had some Appertex I would use this to treat for possible Coccidiosis and put the bird on Baytril for 7 days. The Baytril will treat for bacterial enteritis, as well as there may be a small possibility that this is related to an infection in the reproductive glands and it will also treat for this.

I hope this helps a little,

Ron


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thank you Ron for the quick reply,

I do not have any Appertex but do have a liquid Sulmet and some Baytril tablets. Would the sulmet be o.k. to use? Should I try one before the other? Would I have a problem using Baytril while the virus is still active in the bird? I would not be able to get her to the Vet until next week.

Both PMV birds eat on their own but do not take water very well. Can I give them their fluids by syringe or is this not recommended. I tried by dropper and they keep turning their heads the opposite way. I check to see if they are drinking on their own but it is hard to tell because when I change their water twice a day the level looks relatively the same. 

Appreciate the advice and help, Vesna


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vesna,

Since you do not have Appertex, I would use the Sulmet alone. This will cover the chance it is Coccidiosis and give some coverage for enteritis, if it is that, depending on the causative pathogen, but I am not too sure for a reproductive infection, Baytril would be a better choice for that. So start the Sulmet and let see the birds response to the medicine. The general consensus seems to be not to use antibiotics in a prophylactic way in PMV birds, but I think you have something active going on to warrant the use of antibiotics. 

It is important that sick birds be kept well hydrated, if the are not capable of doing it themselves then we need to help in this. A Pigeon will need intake about 5% of its body weight each day in water, if you are going to supplement this intake, I would recommend using the re-hydration fluid, please do not give more that 7cc at any one time of fluids. Also, if you are supplemental feeding they will not require quite so much fluids, as water is a large part of a hand feeding formula.

Ron


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thanks again Ron,

I really appreciate your advice and knowledge. I will give the bird the Sulmet. It says two tablespoons to one gallon of water for three to five days. Is it better to cut that in half and see how long that lasts or make fresh every day? Can I give liquid by syringe? Should this be only the Sulmet liquid or pedialyte as well? 

Thanks again, Vesna


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Vesna, 

Thanks for helping out w/these birds, you sure do have an active back yard
and keep a watchful eye.
You can halve the formulation (not the strength to be clear) so that you make 
only a half a gallon if you like and store it in the refridgerator allowing it to 
come to room temperature before syringing. Since you will be syringing and knowing the water intake, 
I would forego the pedialyte myself. If you happen
to have a wormer on hand, I would probably worm first and then start right in
on the Sulmet.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hi Feralpigeon,

I do have a wormer called Worm Out Gel which I purchased from Foy's. Should I put this in the birds water and then syringe some into the bird? How long between giving the wormer and starting the Sulmet? 

You are so right about my yard. I try to keep food and water on hand for all the birds and get many pigeons visiting. I have eight of them under my care at the moment (three with PMV symptoms) it is very challenging. I love all animals and have a soft spot for pigeons. I am learning as I go and do not have as much knowledge as I would like at the moment so I really appreciate all of your knowledge and advice.

Thanks, Vesna


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vesna,

With the Wormout Gel, the dose is .05cc per 100 grams, so you would be giving about .14cc as a treatment dose for the bird you have. The way I do it is to draw the dose, then mix it with about .25cc water. I then draw about 1cc of water into a 3cc syringe to with I have a tube attached, using the tube to draw up the water, I then slowly draw the Wormout Gel mixture and administer directly to the crop. This way you are insuring, with such a small dose, that the bird is getting the full dose by having the 1cc of water, drawn first, to flush the entire dose into the bird.

They say this is a one time treatment, but I have been recommended by my vet to repeat the worming at the two week interval. You can Worm tonight and start the Sulmet tomorrow.

Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vesna,




Looks like you are in excellent hands here with Ron's mentions and advices.

I just wanted to second the idea of getting a fecal analysis/exam if you can, from a practiced Avian Vet or a Vet who is up to the drill.

Keep him warm, and consider to make his Water the famous "ACV-Water" which is a tolerable electolyte in it's own right, as well as discouraging a wide range of undesireable bacteria and other motley organisms in his system.


If he is having diarrhea, as Ron mentions, dehydration can be a serious problem incidental to it...so, keep that Water Bowl clean and refreshed with some order of electrolyte...and I think the ACV-Water has many advantages.

White Towells are always my recommendation for being able to see the poops well...so sounds like you are in good shape on that aspect.


Of course it is a very nice thing to hear and bodes well, that this Bird is gaining weight so far with your care...!


How pronounced are the PPMV symptoms?



Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have found two pigeons with symptoms of PMV in my yard(throwing of seeds,turning of head side to side). The first was found over two weeks ago and the second last week. This morning I went to check on the one found last week and noticed a couple of bright red short stringy marks of blood on her white towel. This is the first time I have noticed this and it has been continuing on throughout the afternoon. More stringy blood and watery discoloured liquid along with green poop. I am worried about her, she weighs approximately 275 grams now though when I found her she weighed 245 grams. Any idea of why this may be happening and what I can do to help her?
> 
> Thanks, Vesna


Vesna, I think you are suggesting syringing because of PMV symptoms, and 
this would be fine, though you want to make sure that you don't give more
medicated water than is being called for. Do you have the means to weigh
this pigeon? Then you would get an accurate picture of the water consumption by weight. 
Here's a link that will give you some guidelines:

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/cm.fonseca/pombos/diseases.htm#LISTA_DE_DOEN%C7AS

I would begin the Sulmet the next day so as not to overload the bird on meds.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello,

Thanks for all the helpful advice, I do not have any sort of tube for the syringe so I will have to try and do it without one. I appreciate the help with the dosing amounts, and thanks for the informative link Feralpigeon. 

Phil you asked about their PMV symptoms, two of them have the turning in circles, picking and missing seed and throwing their heads back, heads kind of bobbing. They both do not have any balance issues as they sleep standing and on one foot, though they do have trouble taking in enough water.
I have a third one found the other day and it has no trouble with water but has the typical turning of the head upside down especially when nervous. I have never dealt with this many birds at once. 


I will be back on tomorrow as it is getting late here. thanks to all of you

Vesna


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello,

I was wondering if I am able to administer the Worm Out dose Ron suggested without a plastic tube connected to a syringe into the crop as I have been searching for a tube and have not found one and I have no experience with crop medicating. Could I make the mixture and just syringe towards the back of the throat. The bird continues to have blood in the runny part of the poop and is all puffed up and sleeping quite a bit. Fights me every step of the way trying to feed it some soaked puppy chow this morning she weighs 268 grams. She is now resting on a heating pad. I would like to give her some type of medicine as soon as possible. Further instruction very much appreciated

Vesna


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Vesna,

Don't know where you're at but if you've got a Home Depot, Lowe's or some other hardware store nearby, you can probably get the stuff you need for a makeshift tube feeder. You can go to this thread and see equipment and techniques for that kind of stuff:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16235

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vesna,

Pidgey has provided you with some good information, but if it is going to take you a while to get out and get what you need you can mix up the WormOut and syringe it to the back of the throat. I would go with a slightly higher dose, .15cc, as you may lose a little in the process and follow with a little water.

Please do this now, as this way I think you could start the bird on a dose of Sulmet late tonight, so she has a dose overnight to sleep on.

Ron


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thanks Pidgey,

I won't be able to go to the home depot until tommorow. Should I just put the wormer in water and make sure she drinks it? It says to do this for two days but I was hoping to get it over with in one dose so I could start the Sulmet sooner.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Vesna, The WormOut Gel has two ways of dosing, one is in the water for two days and the other is directly to the crop as a one time treatment. If you mix up the dose as I instructed and administer to the back of the throat, as long as it all goes down, this would be the equal to a crop dose; a one time dose. Do this as I said now, and start the Sulmet tonight.

Ron


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thank you so much Ron,

I will dose her now with the syringe I have on hand. I was just worried because I do not have a tube nor have any experience crop medicating. Do I still add the extra water for flushing the medication down even though I am not using a tube. Please forgive my lack of knowledge I just want to do the best I can for the bird. 
Vesna


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Good question Vesna. What I would do is change things slightly in that I would mix up the WormOut and water as I first suggested, .15cc WormOut + .25cc Water. I would draw less water first, since it will not be going directly to the crop, say .50cc, and then after you administer follow with 1-2cc of plain water to wash it all down.

We can get you up to speed later on crop medicating/feeding as if you are doing as much rehabbing as it appears you are, this is a very important technique to know.

All the best,

Ron


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

I gave the bird the wormer at 1:00p.m. I watched her for half an hour after that and she seemed to keep everything down. I did follow it with water as you suggested Ron. She fought me every step of the way. I will mix the Sulmet in her water this evening, should I wait twelve hours or just anytime this evening? Once again thanks for the great advice.

Vesna


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Vesna - I'm not Ron  but if it were me I would wait until first thing tomorrow morning to start the Sulmet. That will give her all day to drink the treated water.


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