# How much amoxycillin for injured dove?



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

My cat caught a little laughing dove yesterday. It weighs about 55g, still a baby. Got hold of Betamox, and according to the label, 5 ml of the mixed suspension contains 125 mg of amoxycillin. I gave the bird 0.05ml this evening. Is this the correct amount? According to what I've read: must be given twice a day for 5 days.

There's also a large bare patch between the legs with missing feathers and skin. No internal injuries, it ate a bit last night by itself and pooping ok. What will be the best way to treat this wound?

Thanks.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Hello Marina B, thanks for taking care of the dove.
From what I could gather around here, you need to give 50-80 mg of amoxycillin in a day, for 1 kg of bird. That means around 5 mg for your bird. So 0.2 ml per day, or 0.1 ml twice a day. 
So you can double your amount, to 0.1 ml twice a day. 
Baytril (enrofloxacin) is, I think, a better choice than amoxy, so if you can get hold of baytril, it would be better.
You can gently wash the wound with warm saline water, then apply some ointment, like an antibiotic ointment, or one with iodine in it. Afterwards, till the wound has healed properly, you need to keep it dry all the time. If you have antibiotic powder, you can dust the wound with it a few times daily, to keep the wound dry and infection-free.
Also, keep the dove in a warm quiet place and handle him/her only when necessary.
Hope she recovers soon. Good luck!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Thanks. Yes, I'm keeping him nice and warm and (thank God) the bird's still alive when I checked this morning. Let's hope this one pulls through.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The baby is still alive, but not getting better. Sitting with eyes closed, feathers ruffled - typical signs of infection. Had to start handfeeding, it stopped eating by itself. Is very constipated as well. Is the bird getting enough antibiotics? Don't know what more I can do?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The dove needs 9mg two times a day. *The dose is 150mg/1000grams.* The higher dose kunju suggested would be way too high. I hope the doves survives. Keep him on a heating pad set on low.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

*?*

I'm a bit confused now. According to the label on the bottle: 5ml contains 125mg amoxy. So 1 ml contains 25mg. Now if the bird needs 9mg twice a day, that means I have to give it 0.4ml twice a day. That's even a much higher dose than the one Kunju suggested.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

So sorry to hear about your bird. Can you get baytril (enrofloxacin) by any chance? It works better on pigeons instead of amoxycillin. Perhaps for doves too.
What are you handfeeding, maybe it can give us clues about the reason for constipation. Make a little applesauce by steaming apple pieces, and feed him a few pieces. This will probably ease his stomach and aid in elimination. Also give him plenty of water, in case you are feeding solid food.
The dosage - I got the information from old posts on amoxycillin here on PT. Hope it is not an overdosage problem. 
You are doing the best possible for your dove, and I am sure he is extremely thankful to you. Keep him warm and comfortable, and let's hope he pulls through.
If you can search for metronidazole, it would be good to give it for canker, just in case. Though this looks like infection from the cat attack itself, the bird could have become prey to the cat because of another infection like canker.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Since he is constipated, it is best to take it slowly on the feeding. Give some applesauce, observe his crop for emptiness, check if he is pooping. After you are sure the crop is empty, give him a small feeding, and again check for crop emptying and pooping. If crop is not emptying, do not feed further, but give the applesauce and massage his crop, and check after a while if food is coming out the other end as poop. Feed only when crop empties.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Hi Kunju,

I have Baytril (label says 1ml to a l - whatever that means?), but I've read amoxy is a better option to use when catbites are involved? Also have meditrich, was actually thinking about canker today. Feeding the bird Animalzone (handrearing formula for baby birds) and some pronutro porridge as well. Bird is pooping better now, but looks as if there's a bit of blockage at the cloaca. Poop's colour is dark green with yellow urates - not good. So either I'm overdosing or it has canker. So difficult to administer the correct amount. Will it be safe to use amoxy or baytril with the meditrich? To be honest, I never expected the bird to still be alive. Every morning I expect to find it dead, but the little guy is still hanging in there. 

Thanks for your help-appreciated!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad that he has begun pooping. If the poops are dry, try making the baby formula thinner in consistency.
I think you have the kind of baytril solution which is used to treat a flock - adding 1 ml of it for every liter of drinking water provided. I just searched now, and I too found a post saying amoxy works well for cat bites. Here-
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/f...at-desperately-seeking-extra-input-44253.html
If you look at the post by Feefo, it's said that you can dose amoxy upto 125 mg per kilo per day, so I don't feel it could be an overdosage.
Please start on the meditrich. 
Yellow urates could mean canker, which meditrich (metronidazole) will take care. Dosage is 50mg in a single daily dose, for 10 days. Since it is a baby, perhaps 20 mg would suffice.
I don't know if this is a good suggestion, but perhaps you could try stopping feeding the porridge, and feed only the baby food, and see if the poops improve. 
Hope he hangs in there!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes,

He is still hanging in there. Yesterday afternoon, looked so well-started preening itself and more alert. Today, not so well again. Sort of wobbly, weak. I've increased the amoxy to 0.2 ml twice a day. Also given it some applesauce. Will start with metronidazole tomorrow. Tomorrow will be a week since it was attacked......


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

How's your baby doing?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The bird is very weak and unbalanced. It did not poop at all last night, this morning I fed it applesauce and later on it produced 2 poops (bit sour smelling, so I suspect sour crop). I also gave it some Nystacin with 10mg Metronidazole.

I've stopped giving it Amoxycillin, don't know if this is good or bad. It's almost a week since the bird has been on the antibiotics. What worries me, the amoxy I got, has like 3g of sugar per 5 ml. I'm sure this can't be good. Small town, only one pharmacy and they are limited.

I will keep you updated, thanks for enquiring. Read the thread about your Rudy - sad!!!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so sad hearing that. Can you feel his crop and check if there is food inside? IF there is, wait for it to empty completely before giving any more foodd. For my Rudy, the crop never emptied, and I did not know to flush her crop either.
I don't recommend flushing now, since your bird is already weak. All I can think of is to keep her on a heating pad, and give her good rest. Hopefully the Nystatin will do some good. Nystatin works best on empty stomach. No food for 2 hours after administering Nystatin.
If it is a yeast infection, it is best not to give the amoxy. Im praying for your little guy.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Thanks. I'm starting to think the balance issue is not from weakness. I think it might have a broken tailbone. I've read a few threads about this. The tail is always hanging limp when I have the bird in my hand and when it's lying down, at an angle from the body. But then it was not like that when I first got the bird. It was able to walk a bit and also ate seeds that first night. This only started on day 4, and there's no way the bird could have injured itself. 

At least it's not sitting with closed eyes like it used to. Also trying to eat seeds, but can't. Pooping also much better today, not so green anymore. I'll continue with the Metro and Nystacid. How much do you recommend I should feed? Will 10 ml three times a day be ok? I've handraised pigeons before, but this is the first dove. 

I took photo's, but having difficulty attaching them. Will try again later.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Have done some more reading. I searched under "botulism" and read a thread posted by katvdm (also from SA). My bird shows exactly the same symptoms. What's the best way to treat this? Hope it's not too late, it just had a seizure, I thought it was dying. But ok for now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You shouldn't stop the antibiotic. It needs to be given for at least 10 days. How do the poops look? If it has canker, that too can cause a blockage. It will also smell sour. Needs to be treated for canker. It might be reacting to the cat bite.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid I don't have experience of botulism. I just googled right now but I couldn't find any similarities. I found a site which said that a bird which survives the first 48 hours of the poisoning, will likely survive. This is the site:
http://www.birdtrader.co.uk/bird_advice/identifying-treating-avian-botulism/502

As long as the poops are coming and his crop is emptying, you can give the food. Take care that the crop is empty when you feed, and since we are suspecting sour crop, it is best to give him smaller amounts.

Sour crop can be because of yeast, bacteria or canker. It is difficult to know which is the culprit.
The tail may not be broken. I sometimes find myself getting paranoid over my birds' tails the same way. They hang it limp when sick I guess - it is part of that hunched stance.
Hope he gets well soon!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Bird is quite ok at the moment. It's sitting on a piece of wood with sarongs on either side so that it does not fall over and it's looking quite happy. I got hold of Amoxy in capsule form (went behind the counter myself at the pharmacy to check what they have). Gave it a dose of about 9mg tonight and will do that twice a day. I've read somewhere if you don't do the full course of antibiotics, you have to restart the whole course, so I'll continue for 10 days.

Poops are almost ok. Not so green like it used to be and the urates are whitish.
I'll also continue with Nystasin first thing in the morning, and then later feeding with 10mg of Metronidazole for another 12 days.

Hopefully the bird will recover it's balance. Will let you know what happens along the way.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's better, hope he pulls through. You are doing great! 
Please keep us updated.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

*Braindamage?*

Baby is still fine. Only problem is the balance (always find it lying on the side) and the weird way in which it keeps the head twisted upwards. Had a couple of seizures on Friday night, but that seems to have stopped. Can this causes brain damage? Or can the infection from the catbite have caused braindamage? Poops sometimes brown, sometimes greenish with white urates. Soft, but not liquid. Still feeding with syringe and giving medication.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Never seen a bird lying on the side unless that weak. Maybe it is losing balance, and then lying on the side unable to upright itself? If this is the case, you need to find him something like a shoe box in which he cannot fall to the side and become overturned. 
Brain damage can be caused by head trauma or infections like salmonellosis /PMV. Neck twisting is a symptom of brain damage. If lucky, this damage will reverse itself in due time. Some pigeons never recover from the neurological symptoms.
What happens during a seizure? Are you sure it is a seizure, or could it be him thrashing around trying to upright himself?
Glad that he is eating and pooping. If it is salmonellosis, improvement may only happen towards the end of the antibiotic course, so let's keep hope.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kunju said:


> Never seen a bird lying on the side unless that weak. Maybe it is losing balance, and then lying on the side unable to upright itself? If this is the case, you need to find him something like a shoe box in which he cannot fall to the side and become overturned.
> Brain damage can be caused by head trauma or infections like salmonellosis /PMV. Neck twisting is a symptom of brain damage. If lucky, this damage will reverse itself in due time. Some pigeons never recover from the neurological symptoms.
> *What happens during a seizure? Are you sure it is a seizure, or could it be him thrashing around trying to upright himself?*
> Glad that he is eating and pooping. If it is salmonellosis, improvement may only happen towards the end of the antibiotic course, so let's keep hope.



Very good point.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm definitely sure it's seizures. The bird sort of fell forward and flutters it's wings very quick and the head is turned around. Then it's sort of dazed for a couple of seconds and then snaps out of it. First time I saw it, I thought the bird was dying. Well, only had one yesterday and today nothing that I know off.

The balance thing: definitely not from weakness. When I feed it, it's always struggling to get away from me, so full of energy. I've got it more stabilized now. In smaller box with pieces of fabric around the bird so that it sits upright. Every night the bird preens its feathers. Definitely losing feathers around the throat area. I'm giving the bird 10mg of Metronidazole every morning (it weighs about 75 g) - I hope it's enough.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would go with 25mg of Metro. People use that amount for baby pigeons still in the nest.
An under dosage would just create the trch building an immunity.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I asked if it is seizures because I have a pigeon who loses his balance due to unequal strength in the two legs. He also has neck twisting, so when he loses balance, his neck goes round and round, and he tumbles about unable to upright himself. Sometimes, by the time I am able to catch him, he has become exhausted, and appears faint with his eyes closed. He recovers in a few moments. I just wanted to confirm this is not the case there.

In any case, glad that the frequency of seizures is reducing. The smaller box will be great, and the fabric will provide him better grip to maintain balance, than a smooth surface.
I think he is on the road to recovery. What is his name?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Have named him little Kunju since you've taken such an interest in the guy. I really really hope he survives. Trying to attach a photo, but it keeps failing. Never had this problem before.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

'Kunju' means 'little' in my language 
I used to call my first pigeon Rudy 'Kunju'. That's how it became my name here.
Thanks for using the name. Hope your Kunju pulls through.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Kunju is still doing fine. Started eating seeds yesterday, tossing the head backwards to swallow. I know that with this one I've jumped to conclusions too quick in the past, but is it possible that the bird might have PMV? I've watched a couple of video's regarding this and Kunju holds his head in the same way. Although I've never seen birds in our neighbourhood with the symptoms of PMV. 

Still not walking, sitting in one spot grooming feathers and eating seeds. Made some "I'm hungry noises" yesterday when I fed him.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Could be PMV. My Rudy had that head tossing habit when I got her. She used to scatter most of the seeds, and eat very little, so I force-fed her for the initial months. Gradually, her control over neck movements improved, and she was able to eat on her own. 

If lucky, Kunju's neurological symptoms will recede with time. Even otherwise, he can have a normal happy life with you. My Rudy could not fly, but she was a happy walking pigeon.

For PMV pigeons, avoiding stress is most important for their recovery. Lots of patience and support is needed. I think Kunju is in good hands. Keep it up!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Just now noticed one thing in your post - you said it is not walking? At all?
Salmonellosis can cause limb weakness, and also the neck twisting. Can you check the legs if they are ok - any swelling, lesions? 
I hope others here will also suggest on this.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Legs seems fine, no swelling. He does push himself up on the legs from time to time, but has to lean against something not to fall over. I think it's because of the balance problem that the bird's not walking.

Well, if it is PMV, at least Kunju will be fine in 6 weeks time. The amoxy will surely help for salmonella, says so in the pamphlet?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I think amoxy also works, though baytril is the drug of choice for salmonellosis. Let us see how he improves over the next 6 weeks. In case there is no improvement, maybe we could consider a course of baytril then. Hope that won't be necessary.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Kunju seems to be going downhill again, not eating as much as he used to. He had his last dose of 9mg twice a day Amoxy on Mondaymorning (10 days in total) and this morning last dose of 20-25 mg Metro once a day. There's still a reddish lump in the throat area with missing feathers. I've treated him for 14 days (although the first 5 days was only 10mg). 

His wounds also have some yellow, especially where the feathers are joined to the skin. I've read somewhere that antibiotics for catbite infection can be given up to 3 weeks. Should I start treating him for another 10 days? What about the Metro? Should I continue for another couple of days, because of the low dosage the first 5 days?

Still unbalanced with neck twisting.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Metro can be given for 21 days for severe cases, or till the lump disappears. Since you gave a low dosage in the first days, the bird (could) have developed resistance against the drug. Have you felt the lump getting smaller over the days? Do you have another drug for canker, like Spartix or ronidazole? If these are not available, please continue the metro for another week and see.

Antibiotics wipe off the good bacteria in the gut too, so we need to follow up with probiotics. If nothing else is available, simple plain yogurt will work. This will also perhaps bring back his interest in food.
Is he eating by himself? If he is not, you need to check when his crop becomes empty and feed him accordingly. 
Have the wounds dried and scabbed over? As long as the skin is dry, I think the yellow is not an issue.
Only you can know how critical the situation is, so if you think he is going downhill fast, I suggest a course of baytril. If he seems to be healing naturally, we could give more of supportive treatment like probiotics, ACV and garlic (natural antibiotic).
Hope he hangs in there. The balance issues will take months to improve.
Please keep him warm and comfortable. And keep us updated.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

By underdosing, you help trichs become stronger and more resistant to the drug. Then they are harder to get rid of. Sometimes you need to treat with 2 different meds at the same time. One in morning, and one at night.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I have got ronidazole 10% (5g to be mixed with 2l drinking water). But I'm so scared to use it, cause last year I lost a little pigeon after treating it with this product. Was exactly the same situation, I first used the metro and then switched to ronidazole and the bird just deteriorated and died. Still don't know if I overdosed the bird or what went wrong.

Kunju became worse 2 days after I stopped using the Amoxy (that was for 10 days). Maybe I should have given it for a longer period? Well, at least he's still preening feathers and trying pecking at seed, but also spending a lot of time just sitting with closed eyes. I'm giving him probiotics and ACV water mixed in with his food.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I suggest starting him on baytril instead. But if baytril is not available, you can try another week of Amoxcyllin. 
Till he recovers fully, it would be best not to put out seed for him. Hand feed him whenever his crop empties, and let him gain his weight and strength back before he goes back to self-feeding. 
Are his poops normal now? 
I'm sorry I don't know about the ronidazole. I found a thread here, maybe this would help:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/has-anyone-used-this-ronidazole-tablet-48866.html

It is also mentioned in the thread above about combining ronidazole with metronidazole. Maybe you can try that out.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Sitting with closed eyes is a sign of tiredness. But if he is preening his feathers, I would say he still has some strength in him.
Make sure he gets direct sunlight for some time, everyday.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Kunju seems to be getting better. Yesterday his poops were greenish, soft with white urates, but this morning and today it's brown, nicely shaped with white urates.

He's also using his feet more for balancing, it's not as useless as it used to be. I won't give him any more Amoxy or Baytril unless I think it's necessary, but then I'll first get your opinion. The lump in the throat area is only really visible when he turns his head to the back for preening feathers.

Will it be ok if I mix ACV, probiotics for pigeons and garlic all together in water and use this for basis for mixing his food. And give this to him every day, or will that be too much? Regarding the seeds: I prefer to leave them lying around, at least I know when he pecks at them, he feels ok. 

Will update again in a couple of days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would only add a bit, just a few drops of ACV in the water to mix the formula, but not much. Probiotics would also be good. Leave out the garlic. Warm baby applesauce can also be used in place of the ACV. When they are sick, they often sit with their eyes closed.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's good news. I give ACV and probiotics to my pigeons once a week, in their drinking water. Maybe you can give more probiotics now, then taper it off to once a week. I have had good improvement with garlic capsules. But it causes vomiting in one of my pigeons, so it is best to give on empty stomach. Some members here sprinkle garlic powder in the food/water I think, but I don't know exactly how much since I don't have garlic powder.
Garlic is a natural antibiotic, so is turmeric. Giving them in tiny amounts can help, and if nothing else is certainly not going to harm. 
Glad to know his balance is also better.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Kunju is still doing great! He got his last dose of Metro this morning. Poops have been looking fine, his eating on his own and started walking a bit. The weird head twisting have also stopped.

One question that I can't get an answer for: how much longer should I continue with the Nystacid? Or will the ACV in the water prevent any yeast infection?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I know ACV helps prevent yeast infections. How long have you been giving the Nystacin?

Glad to know he is doing so much better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Usually you would give the nystatin for a few days after you have finished the antibiotics. Unless there is reason to believe that there is a yeast infection. Then of course, you would give it till it clears up.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I've been given him nystatin since I started with the metro, that's 3 weeks ago. I thought the 2 should be given together. I've read on this forum that if there's a sort of greyish "net" around the poops, that's a sign of yeast infection. He actually had that about a week ago, but that cleared up in the meantime. So maybe I must stop with the Nystacid and just keep an eye out for that.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He drinks quite a lot of water. It's winter here, so not very hot. But that's good for the kidneys I suppose.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes I also feel Nystacid can be stopped. 
I have a pigeon who drinks lots of water, but is apparently healthy. I have also observed that infections can cause excessive drinking, which is good since it helps to eliminate the toxins/bacteria. 
But I have a doubt that drinking lots of water could indicate kidney problems. PMV is supposed to affect the kidneys if I remember right. Hopefully, someone else has some better insight into this.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Finally managed to upload a photo. Wing looks terrible, not getting better. The other wing also a bit infected, but not as bad as this wing. Have been looking at images of paratyphoid.... But the bird is eating fine and poops are perfect. Still unbalanced (although much better than before). Should I start with baytril just for in case this is paratyphoid?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Since he is improving, I feel he will do well with the natural supportive measures like ACV and garlic. Just my opinion. 
He looks so cute. The neck twisting is apparent in the photo. Glad that his balance is improving. 
One of my pigeons who had balance problems for the last 3 months made sudden improvement and now runs about the house. So you never know when things will start looking up, all we can do is wait with patience.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Kunju is still doing fine. Flying seems a bit of a problem, but much more active walking around. I'm still keeping him in a little birdcage, but was thinking of building him a bigger cage. I have a pigeon in a big aviary where we also plant vegetables. I want to put this cage inside the aviary, so the pigeon won't have physical contact with him or share the same food and water.

Kunju is still a bit unbalanced and the head held sometimes at a weird angle. This has been going on for 5 weeks now. I'm just scared that the pigeon might get whatever Kunju's got. Do you think this is wise or should I wait a bit longer before doing this?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

6 weeks is the minimum isolation time for PMV, but looking at the wing boils I think Kunju has paratyphoid. I don't have personal experience on this, I hope someone else can give a good opinion.
Till his wings are healed fully, it would be good to keep him isolated.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Looks as if nobody else have an opinion about the wings. Wings are starting to look much better than on the photo and in general the bird is improving day by day. He whistles to me when I give new food and water and I whistle back and that's how we communicate with each other.

Kunju, I want to thank you sincerely for your advice and encouragement in saving this little guy. Keep up the good work you're doing for the pigeons in India.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's so cute, whistling to each other. Looking by the symptoms of paratyphoid mentioned in sites, the wing boils seem to be of paratyphoid. I suggest that you start a new post, with the photo. That way you might get more responses. 
I'm glad I could be of help. Give little Kunju my love.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would have given the Baytril in case of infection anyway.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Update on Kunju, enjoying a bit of sunshine. I decided not to give the bird baytril, and he recovered nicely. Unfortunately unable to fly, can flap and stretches the wings, but can't fly. I made him a cage within the big aviary so the pigeons can't get to him.

Last night he had some severe head twisting again, but was fine this morning. If I ever find him a mate, they will get a nice big aviary of their own.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow, he is a real beauty. So glad he is keeping well. I think he might attempt to fly if he sees other pigeons flying. Since he has neck twisting at times of stress, you can never release him I guess.
Its wonderful he has an aviary to himself. Regarding mate, I have found that this whole mating business, and laying eggs can sometimes stress a post-PMV bird a lot. Right now, I have same-sex PMV recovered pigeons (I think both are female) , and though they are not best friends, they kinda get along. No running behind the other and cooing and dancing. 
Sometimes Kunju may fully recover and will have better control over stress, and be able to mate and rear babies too. So let's keep hope. Thanks for taking such good care of him!


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