# Help me find an alternative please



## kmierta (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi all, 
I'm having a really tough time with something and I'm hoping someone can either help me find an alternative solution or help me get some clarity. I'm currently working for a company that is doing a major addition on a hotel/casino here in Vegas. Our "office" is in an apartment on the property that will eventually be torn down when they are ready to build on that spot. There are pigeons that live in the eves of the apartment building. I don't think anyone minds the pigeons, BUT there is one area, right outside our door where the pigeon poop falls and accumulates. One of the gals in my office is pregnant and worried about potential disease not only during her pregnancy, but once the baby is born and she brings the baby to work with her. 

They brought in a "Pigeon Specialist" who is going to trap them and then clean up the area so the poop doesn't fall out. I was stupid and asked the inevitable question... "What happens to the trapped pigeons?" Well, they go to some falcon and hawk rehab area and are food for the falcons and hawks so they can learn to hunt their prey in the air before they are released in the wild. 

I completely understand the pregnant gal's concerns, and I know having tons of poop outside the door isn't healthy for any of us, and I don't fault her. I 
just feel that sending these pigeons, who are now free, into certain death just isn't fair at all. I just feel so helpless to do anything about this situation.

I actually started tearing up at work when I thought of these poor pijs being 
uprooted from their homes and thrown into the jaws of predators. It's a much better solution than just poisoning them and leaving them to die, but still I'm having a real hard time with this. 

I know that some day the apartments will be torn down and they will lose their homes then, but at least they will still be free to find a new home. 

Does anyone have any words of wisdom to help me deal with this? 

Thanks! 
Karen


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Awful solution. How many pigeons are there?


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## kmierta (Mar 1, 2008)

I don't really know for sure how many... If I had to take a guess, nesting in that building, probably less than 10. In the entire area, maybe 30 or so.
Karen


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Its a terrible situation as the pigeons cannot be released as the wil just come back. The only option is to humanely euthanise them. then the only problem is that anothr bunch of pigeons will come back to replace the empty homes.

plus if you capture and euthanise the adults whats going to happen to the babies, pigeons breed rapidly and almost any given time a pair of adult to have babies.

suggest to get a falconer to come in and scare the birds away twice aweek. 1 or 2 birds may get eaten but it deteres them away from future roosting. Hope this helps.

Pigeon lovers, this is the best solution that i could come up with. may sound crude but this is the only option i see to advise.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

warriec said:


> Its a terrible situation as the pigeons cannot be released as the wil just come back. The only option is to humanely euthanise them. then the only problem is that anothr bunch of pigeons will come back to replace the empty homes.
> 
> plus if you capture and euthanise the adults whats going to happen to the babies, pigeons breed rapidly and almost any given time a pair of adult to have babies.
> 
> ...


Warriec...there is always another way.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

kmierta said:


> I don't really know for sure how many... If I had to take a guess, nesting in that building, probably less than 10. In the entire area, maybe 30 or so.
> Karen


Approach the owners and ask them if they would be willing to screen [not net] off the areas the pigeons are in, rather than trapping. They will find other places to roost. 
Ideas from anyone else?


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## Nosferatu09 (Mar 5, 2008)

I think your idea's great charis... maybe if they get enough calls from random people trying to save the pigeons they'll do it... with pressure from the public and what not =x


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Karen,

You need to convince whoever is in charge that their solution is inhumane and cruel and it won't work anyway. They are finding food in that area, and that is why they are staying there. There will be more pigeons there... one way or another, where there is food. 

So, the pigeons are getting mixed signals, they are being fed or finding food at fast food places...and then now they have become a problem??? Humans created the environment for them to live, so it should be resolved humanely.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Karen,

I wonder whether the "pigeon specialist" gets paid extra for providing pigeons as live prey?

The nests can be removed and the squabs passed on to rehabbers, then the area can be secured to keep pigeons out. As this is what they would have to do anyway, there is no reason at all to trap and kill the adult pigeons.

I think your own mental health is also important, you should have a word with your employers about the effect that their current plan is having on you.

Cynthia


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## kmierta (Mar 1, 2008)

Thank you all for your suggestions! Yes, the more I thought about this last night, I realized that this guy probably gets paid by the falconers for the pigeons he brings. So far, all I've heard from my company is that they want to get rid of the poop... not necessarily the pigeons. 

I plan on talking to them today to see if we do as you say... check the nests, safely remove any babies, screen them off, and clean. This is really only in one area anyway. There are pigeons in other buildings and they are not having the guy "treat" those buildings.

I'll let you know how it goes... thank you!
Karen


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Absolutely....Kmierta....just remind them that their current, un..."solution"...will end up costing a lot...and only temporarily solves the issue...as the pigeons WILL come back....so, they will have to re-hire their um, "contractor" to do the exact same thing.

Instead, find a contractor who does screening to install those instead. Explain to your bosses that the pigeons just get evicted, and the area pigeon-proofed...and this only need happen once, and ...viola...the problem will be solved.

Offer to them that you will do the legwork in finding this kind of "pigeon specialist". if you need help...I am certain many of us here can help you w/ a search for a humane professional in your vicinity.

(and whoever came up w/......euthanizing.... and a falconer..... as the "only solution"....huh ?)


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## kmierta (Mar 1, 2008)

Well, this pigeon guy convinced them that the screening just keeps them away from THIS spot. They will have to screen every opening in every building or they will have similar complaints from other employees when the poop starts dropping from those places. Management just wants to be "rid of the problem" and they don't want to see ANY pigeons around at all. 

I see how this all works too. I went to talk to the manager who arranged this, and found that he talked to my supervisor and had him in our meeting. When I stated my case I was told that they would ask the questions to see if screening was an option or if other options were available, then I was dismissed. Then, supposedly, my supervisor and this manager called the pigeon guy and came to tell me what the result was. I was not invited on the call to discuss options and ask questions, but my supervisor, who has no interest in pigeons was.

It's really stupid, but they are going to do what they want to do, and make me feel like an idiot in the meantime. I like my job, and am feeling like this could affect me if I fight too hard about it. It has definitely changed the way I feel about my company though. I judge people by the way they treat animals, and right now, nobody here is looking too wonderful to me. 

Thanks for your suggestions and for listening.
Karen


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm really sorry, Karen. You are not the idiot so don't let them make you feel bad.
Your supervisor and manager aren't honest thinkers...maybe thinking with a partial brain. If the areas aren't screened, other pigeons will take their place and then the whole trapping thing will be repeated. The trapper makes more money. The pigeons suffer and the true idiots get to keep being idiots.
Feel free to quote me.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

A solution that doesn't solve the problem is a waste of time and money (except for the "pigeon professional" who is obviously the only source your superiors are giving any credence to, and that is unfortunate). 

Unless other people there independently protest any inhumane approach (such as the one being planned) you will likely get nowhere with your appeal.  

I recall keeping silent while some roosting birds (not pigeons) were cruelly dispatched by a former employer. To this day I regret not taking a firm vocal stand against them and doing more. I was afraid like you are, and I understand the dilemma


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## clawsywp (Apr 12, 2008)

wonder if you are able to do a cost analysis thing of the different methods and well make the nasty contractor seem bad, it probbaly is more expensive to get him in the long run..
like if you can get a rough quote for the mesh, and ask them to tell you or write out the benefits of the mesh? stick that in a small report or document and maybe they might listen?

I would also ask the human society for their opinion, maybe if you can get them saying that they dont support that idea as ideal, it might help back you up as far as you telling them that it is distressing to work with that cruelty going on.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> wonder if you are able to do a cost analysis thing of the different methods


That is a good idea! This problem is a recurring one, any information that we can gather will help us in other cases. 

Cynthia


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

It's really not to hard to set up a pigeon trap, so a person can catch pigeons, and find good homes for them. The problem is: Tresspass law.
You must have permission. Or the neighboring property owners permission  
It's just a matter of who would do it and when. You might even need a city permit also.
Maybe someone from pigeon talk, that is in your area, can check out the situation? 
Hawk Pros, are NOT Pigeon Pros!


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## clawsywp (Apr 12, 2008)

this might be of help,

it has references to an article which says pigeon culling or trapping doesnt work

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/wildlife/ALL/348/


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