# My Bitey Pigeon



## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

I amazed myself with how much I enjoy his company. 

Archimedes is a white pigeon - he was mistaken for a dove but upon closer inspection... he had a bigger cere area ... and was bigger all around at about 13'' from beak to tail. He is tall and pure white but my boyfriend tells me that he's got a sheen of pink/purple when he sits in the sunlight... I don't know though (I'm severely color blind and partially blind altogether). 

Anyway, I was always more of a raptor/corvid person. As a pre-apprentice falconer and an avid lover of crows and ravens, I had been studying classical conditioning in their species and was planning on either getting a red-tailed hawk or an African Pied Crow when -BAM!- the car dies and guess who gets enough in taxes to make up for it.

Funny thing is that I don't even drive.

But I need to go places so... _ka-ching!_

Anyway, I found Archimedes up for adoption because he got into a serious fight with some Macaws and his owner had no idea what to do with him. When I saw his picture, I absolutely fell in love. He's gorgeous and he makes such lovely sounds.

The only problem is that he bites FIERCE. It doesn't hurt me but I am more worried about him. He's an adult, about two years old, and with a dominate personality. I never expected him to be cuddly but every time I try to hand feed him, he just pecks at my fingers, ignoring the food completely. 

He refuses to perch on my hand, won't let me bathe him or check his toes (which is a must because during his fight with the Macaws he lost two of them). I'm kind of at a loss of what to do because I'll admit, my adoration of pigeons is quite new. The more time I spend with Archimedes, the more time I find myself observing pigeons around my city and really liking them. 

But I'm afraid that I just don;t know how to tame him. Go figure. I know how to get a hawk to fly to my fist but I can't even offer this little guy food and he'll still rather bite me instead.

I use a soft voice. I only grab him when I clean his cage (which is often so I can see where he'd be miffed from time to time) but I never hurt him, nor would I ever. 

Right now, I am giving him plenty of water but I am restricting his food so that he only eats when I feed him myself. I have to use a bowl because he just bites me too much. I feed him often but I try to encourage him to come close to me when I feed him. A couple of times, he's stood on my arm while I held the bowl. 

Is this the right thing to do, or am I at least on the right track?

He's my service animal, for emotional support, and right now it's a bit of stress. I adore him from his feathers to his naris but he's just kinda mean. Any advice for getting the mean out of him?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

PM me your email and I will send u handling videos. I have tamed down many pigeons within days to cuddly annoying shadows that wont leave u alone lol.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Absolutely. I would adore a cuddly shadow that won't leave me alone. Thanks so much!


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

Koomori said:


> Absolutely. I would adore a cuddly shadow that won't leave me alone. Thanks so much!


Be careful what you ask for! If you have 1 pigeon and it becomes imprinted on you or choses you as their mate..it will be constant attention time! Thats how mine is and I saw how CBL's indoor pigeons are.

As long as you don't mind, pigeons are awesome!


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Archimedes is both permanently injuredand already imprinted. He's shown that he doesn't get along with other birds so he needs someone. I couldn't capture a red tailed hawk, raise my baby pied crow, and the 3 cockatiels all socialize in their group and don't enjoy human contact (though they'll tolerate it) as much as their own kind. I definitely don't mind Archimedes getting cozy. He's my ESAso I coud really use the connection too, and maybe it will help him calm down and be less aggro.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Can we see a pic or two of him?


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Certainly. Maybe if you see him you'll be able to confirm his species for me. To me, he looks like a white version of a domestic pigeon. Otherwise, I'll gladly share pics because he is just that darn adorable. 

















​I could also upload a picture of his feet if anyone is interested in the poor guy's toes. They're looking better but he still has some healing to do.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so glad you adopted Archimedes! He is lovely. Check out CBLs handling videos. Soon Archimedes will be your best friend. We adopted a severely injured pigeon, Phoebe, who bit and wing slapped for a while but now she is very affectionate. Our other pigeon, Fiona, who was from a shelter still bites but it has only been a few months and I'm going to try CBLs techniques with her. Good luck with Archimedes. Do you have toys he can bite instead? Phoebe loves hanging parakeet toys with bells. She bites and wing slaps them instead of me.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

I look forward to but unfortunately my computer is having trouble playing the files. I have windows 8.1 and Windows Media Player. I have downloaded what she sent me and I can see the image in the icon but whenever I try to open it, it will not allow me to play the file. I have a few more things I am going to try before dropping a cow on my computer though.

At any rate, I'm really glad that I found this forum. I am very new to pigeon behavior and I really don't understand some of the things that he does. I have the bottom of his cage lined with newspaper, and then I shredded some newspaper and included a nesting box in the cage. 

He seems to enjoy moving the paper shreds in and out of the box, which he lays in frequently. However he also likes to try and get underneath the newspapers lining the bottom of his cage. Is he hiding? Sometimes he'll just stick his head under the papers but leave the rest of himself out. I don't get it.

In terms of toys, he has four that he enjoys. All of them are parrot toys that make crinkle noises and are made of pet-safe plastics of paper fibers. He enjoys the one the looks like coral and seems to be made of straws the best but when I hold it, he'll just peck me instead. The other toy he likes quite a bit is the one with a bell on it. If you ring the bell, he'll run over to it and wing slap it to make the bell ring again.... which is extremely cute.


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## Maclofts (Dec 14, 2014)

If I'd say, he looks like a really nice utility king pigeon  here's mine


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

A king pigeon huh? They do look a lot alike, maybe that's what he is! King Archimedes. Guess he'll be clashing with my plush hawk I had named 'King Louie' then! That is a beautiful bird you've got there though! Does his or her feathers have a pink or purple shine to them in the light? Archimedes does but it is hard to capture on camera and I personally cannot tell (I'm severely color blind).


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## Maclofts (Dec 14, 2014)

Well to be honest I didn't see any of those colors yet...  but they do shine in the dark like neon lol! Here's three of my hens (a bit smaller in size)


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Maclofts said:


> Well to be honest I didn't see any of those colors yet...  but they do shine in the dark like neon lol! Here's three of my hens (a bit smaller in size)


All birds are gorgeous and I am TOTALLY jealous of that orange tree lol


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

*Ask Krzys*



Koomori said:


> I look forward to but unfortunately my computer is having trouble playing the files. I have windows 8.1 and Windows Media Player. I have downloaded what she sent me and I can see the image in the icon but whenever I try to open it, it will not allow me to play the file. I have a few more things I am going to try before dropping a cow on my computer though.
> 
> At any rate, I'm really glad that I found this forum. I am very new to pigeon behavior and I really don't understand some of the things that he does. I have the bottom of his cage lined with newspaper, and then I shredded some newspaper and included a nesting box in the cage.
> 
> ...


Your computer issues, ask Krzys_cc he is a FORENSIC computer analyst genius, (ya like u see on csi or something) for police retreiver serial killer files and such lol, so if he cant figure it out nobody can, may be something simple.


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## Maclofts (Dec 14, 2014)

Lol those oranges are mighty tasty!


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

I got it. I forgot that my computer is staunchly anal retentive about which apps it uses to open just about anything. I forgot that I have an organic video app on here that pretty much overrides my Windows Media Player defaults. It was basically a conflict in the programming. 

I *LOVED* those videos. I can't believe how pretty your "Big Girl" is! She's so fluffy it is insane!!

From watching the videos, I learned that I was totally going about it all wrong. I kept trying to get his feet first, which would direct my hands behind him. No wonder why he thought I was attacking him!

He's still pretty angry but I did try what you suggested and he actually stayed with me for a few moments before deciding he has had enough, pecked at me until he was free and then counter-attacked at any new attempt to hold him. I've been having a heck of a time trying to clean his cage today too. He's feeling particularly feisty. At least now I know how to hold him but he is nowhere near as docile as your pigeons. 

If I keep holding him close, will he eventually stop the biting? I keep using a calm voice and I try stroking his chest, belly, and head but he just fights. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm thinking this is going to be a process but... that's ok, I love a good challenge.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

CBL said:


> All birds are gorgeous and I am TOTALLY jealous of that orange tree lol


Agreed on both accounts. I love all birds (though I do have my 'preferred species' but I bet you wouldn't guess it.) And I totally wish I could grow oranges. I, however, hail from New York: Land of Apples and Corn.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Koomori said:


> I got it. I forgot that my computer is staunchly anal retentive about which apps it uses to open just about anything. I forgot that I have an organic video app on here that pretty much overrides my Windows Media Player defaults. It was basically a conflict in the programming.
> 
> I *LOVED* those videos. I can't believe how pretty your "Big Girl" is! She's so fluffy it is insane!!
> 
> ...


Lol glad u liked them and it is THAT easy, so, heres what I would do and maybe I should take one of my less tame males and make ANOTHER video of the sweet torture I would do to them if they struggle or wing slap or evade. I say, 'oh ya' u wanna beat on me, MORE cuddles and kisses and I mean I would set him down, pick him up, over and over for 3 or 4 times just as in video and do that till he's like "crap, this guy keeps fussing me up I better shut the hell up and stop fighting so he leaves me the hell alone' lol, no joke. I brought in one of my young untame males, did that like TWICE only and hes like, 'ok' I get it, sorry, I ll just sit here and take it so you will GET LOST lol. After that ZERO fuss AND they evade much less cuz they know u mean no harm and ur not gonna eatem. So they have an INSTANT recognition and the fear disipates immediately. I always say to those who do it slowly by inches over weeks and weeks, that the bird is in fear EVERY TIME you go by it or near it and it stays that way for a long time, to me that is much more cruel that just showing the bird instantly and getting it over with and they know that 'it aint so bad' and according to my vids as u saw, not only do they enjoy it they hound the CRAP out of me so I have to put them away in a cage to get any peace !!!! U saw them follow me out of room to kitchen and attack me for peanuts. You see them come when called like dogs. So they DO bite for different reasons, for defence, for territory, for pets, for peanuts for attention. So you may not get rid of biting altogether but will get bit for different needs lol. Live with it hahahaah

I look forward to a video of YOURS one day  In fact can you video you early attempts at handling so I can critique and advise further and we can see how successful we can be. Just in case you are doing one little thing wrong.

P.S. Krzys bird Juboo aka Pepper, lived with him just over a year and he said would never go to ANYONE but him, not his parents or fiancee. When he brought her to me, I just grabbed her from him, stuck her under my chin as u see and did what I did and it was INSTANT, she allowed me to pick her up and do whatever I wanted. Kryzs could not believe it. They are not stupid, I had to have her here for a week medicating and didnt want her to be scared, worked out great. She went from a sickly rough lethargic and lethargic is a perfect description of how she was to a VERY HIGHLY demanding peice of work lol and she preens the crap out of him daily. He LOVES it. Were not done yet, she has a major molt do get to and one more worm pill but she is ON here way to perfect health.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Oh sure! That's a great idea actually! I'm pretty camera shy but this could be a good exercise for me too. Archimedes is supposed to help me just as much as I am helping him so maybe a bit of exposure wouldn't be bad. I have a YouTube channel so I figure maybe I can just put them up on there so that way you can all view my terrible attempts at pigeon handling. 

Hahaha, I expect to be doing things wrong but I've joined this site to learn and so far it's only been a day and I've gained so much insight... I really am thankful. 

Right now Archimedes is being a good boy. He finally let me clean his cage and he's sitting in the sun, one leg tucked, all puffed out relaxing. I'll make a video tonight and upload it after I pick up my son from school and I'll reply to this thread with the link to my YouTube so anyone who wants to can check it out.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I [B said:


> LOVED[/B] those videos. I can't believe how pretty your "Big Girl" is! She's so fluffy it is insane!!.



She is stunning in person, u cant even imagine by pics, but I was at a flea market to pick up a white hen I had reserved, and she was there with a bunch of other males that were red. They were for sell for MEAT. I wanted a white one, but I kept being pulled back to her cus she was so stunning, her face head and neck feathers and color are just so lush that I could not keep my eyes off of her, so finally I bit the bullet went back and just bought her on the spot. 

She is healthy now, and super tame as u see. All of my birds started out wild and wing slappers as they should be. She is an Italian giant runt or american runt or spanish runt, google their type, origin is spain I believe or Italy they fight over which one. Then the americans got em....


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Pesky Americans. (Guilty, I totally am one I'm only 2 hours from Canada and I'd totally live there if I thought I could. There and as a transient backpacker in Japan. I'd live off of stories and fortune telling.)

I'm definitely interested in the types of pigeons there are. I really never looked into it but I'm gaining more and more interest the more I come here and talk to ya'll and the more I work with Archimedes. 

I've been doing the holding exercises and he's been pretty respondent. Which totally surprised me. It really _is_ that simple. I've been using classical conditioning to some extent. I feed him frequently but I never leave the food in the aviary with him nor do I leave anything on the floor. He only eats when I am there. If I am not there, I have my fiance do the conditioning feeding. It's been almost a full week since he's been here with us and I am really hopeful that if I keep watching the videos and just being persistent, Archimedes will taper down and tame up.

I think its in his personality to be like that. He always sort of got to do whatever he wanted according to the rescue center and the lady that had him before me. So I think it is a bit of a shock for him to be in a new place, with new people, no other birds (our cockatiels are kept downstairs whereas he is upstairs only), and now he's being subjected to proper training.

But he seems alright. For the first three days he wouldn't even come out of his cage but as of right now he's preening himself (I just fed him again) and alternating between perching on the play stand I set up for him and coming out to visit me at my desk.

I'm pretty excited about putting up my video but I'm also nervous. I try to be very cautious with animals and I will admit I'm a bit flighty because I am so afraid to hurt them. This goes with any animal even though, and you'll see this in the video (my wrapped up hand/wrist) birds have a tendency to hurt me more that I give them credit. 

But then again... that's why they make falconry gloves.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

*Link to my YouTube*

Ok, here is my best attempt at handling my Archimedes. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cIge8RDOmI&feature=youtu.be

I really tried to do what I saw in CBL's videos and I'll be practicing every day with my little guy.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

Koomori said:


> Ok, here is my best attempt at handling my Archimedes.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cIge8RDOmI&feature=youtu.be
> 
> I really tried to do what I saw in CBL's videos and I'll be practicing every day with my little guy.


Don't give up! Btw the pidgie looks huge! Or you are a small girl 

Show him whos the boss!! My pidgie was like this too after I rescued her and she regained her energy. She didn't bite or anything when picked up, but did not want to be held. She is super tame now, so keep working at it. Take all the advice CBL can give. When she grabbed my bird for the first time, 10 seconds later JOBO was like "alright..she seems cool, I will just let her handle me" 

LOL I am not joking. She whispered to the pidgie and that was it!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol good for you, ok so what you did was funny and cute but still not correct, go back to video and do EXACTLY the positon I am holding the bird in. Even in my ONE hand. Use the one to control the bird in the exact positon u see me holding it in either under chin or against stomach or chest and use your free hand for petting the head. Dont be afraid, but the way you are holding him there is more like a predator trying to grab. Once u have him imobilized the way I do it, he cannot fight or get away until YOU decide to put him down. It is the position that they sit in their nests fussing eachother up. So THAT is the way you want to hold him with the least resistance from him. Let me know if you need me to show you how to grab right from a table like you did. I will send u another one tomorrow when they are up. Im so glad you managed what you did tho, ya even if he tried to peck you as he did, you did just the right thing by grabbing him up but need to reposition him into the hold I show u on vid  You're gonna be so good at it soon enough u wont even think about it 

So Kryzs is the king of getting pigeons to step up onto hand, me I have ZERO pateince or time for it, lol, I just grab them and fuss them up. My one hen actually will jump into my cupped hand when I open her cage, I cannot even get it open all the way and she is throwing herself into them, like a leap of faith, she cant get to me fast enough. If I open cage an just walk away, she wil fly to me.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

krzys_cce said:


> Don't give up! Btw the pidgie looks huge! Or you are a small girl
> 
> ....
> 
> LOL I am not joking. She whispered to the pidgie and that was it!


A bit of both, really. Archimedes is easilly a step down from a chicken and I'm only 5 feet tall and about a buck thirty.

Seriously, CBL is like Ceasar Milan for fluffy pigeons - her videos and skills are something to be admired and strived for if that's what you want. Which, I should say again, is exactly what I want. I'll get there. Archimedes did that video in one take... though I trimmed off the part where he escaped and flew to my shoulder, pecked my head, then voluntarily reentered his cage. (@[email protected]。


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

*Lol*



Koomori said:


> A bit of both, really. Archimedes is easilly a step down from a chicken and I'm only 5 feet tall and about a buck thirty.
> 
> Seriously, CBL is like Ceasar Milan for fluffy pigeons - her videos and skills are something to be admired and strived for if that's what you want. Which, I should say again, is exactly what I want. I'll get there. Archimedes did that video in one take... though I trimmed off the part where he escaped and flew to my shoulder, pecked my head, then voluntarily reentered his cage. (@[email protected]。


OMG that literally made me laugh out loud reading that. I wish u had left that, but it is PERFECT that he did climb onto your shoulder, when he could have just flew away, so every little step is positive. I'll tell you I have an even tamer pigeon in the coop I will bring her in tomorrow and get vid of her for you, she literally follows me from room to room, flies on my head, climbs onto my sholder sleeps with me if I sleep. She simply seeks me out like a heat seeking missile. Yet she can be months in the loft with all her mates and when in here, she is my pal. You will get there soon enough. As you said, it really is 'that simple"


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

CBL said:


> Lol good for you, ok so what you did was funny and cute but still not correct...
> 
> So Kryzs is the king of getting pigeons to step up onto hand, me I have ZERO pateince or time for it, lol, I just grab them and fuss them up..


Aw, crap. LOL Well, not bad for a total beginner. You should have seen the way I was doing this before. ฅ(๑*д*๑)ฅ!! I was waaaay off. But I totally get it and tomorrow, I'll try again and try to do it more to the letter. I got the general idea but I am trying to break my old habits and replace them with technique. I suppose I'm just afraid of further injuring his toes so I keep carrying the tendency to grab at his body. 

Also, I'm loving the varied tactics of pigeon handling here. I'd love to be able to get Archimedes to perch on my hand or at least to my arm. But one thing at a time and right now I've gotta master the grab and fuss so I can properly attend his toes. 

So much to learn, I love it here!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No dont say that you did awesome, even after he took a swipe at you, you didnt let that bother you, what made me laugh was ur comentary of how he crawled up on you, pecked you and went home lolol thats what made me laugh. 

Ya I liked ur take no prisoners attitude of, Im goin in lol. Too funny. I cant wait to look back on this when you are handling him like a pro and he is your velcro bird. Its fun to look back. Ya you know, I have done this for so many years and it is second nature to me, I have had to manage and handle such tiny teen birds that you would FREAK if u saw the video. I will try to find for you of me hold the head and shouders of a newly hatched budgie and hand feed it with a spoon then wipe its face clean with a wet Qtip. For me the handling is confident and even when I watch it I say wow, is that ME lol. I still have that bird his name is Bubbles. Nobody will believe this but that very bird, died at 3 days old, and I did, get this 45 min of birdie cpr and warming and that dead fingerling revived and survived and is a beautiful Grey Green Spanlge English budgie that is as tame as my pigeons. Gonna go find u that budgie video.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You are doing great with Archimedes! And I enjoyed the comparison of CBL to Cesar Milan. She really is the bird whisperer! I live in CAand I'm jealous of your orange tree too.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Oh, I know I did borderline terrible, unawesome badong (bad-wrong) with my man handling of Archimedes. But at least I'm getting some proper instruction as opposed to my random guess-and-grab. I'm glad I manage to be entertaining and I should upload the extended clip if my Samsung saved it. It's good that he's responding but I think its just more of him being patient with me than anything else.

I probably would freak if I handled a smaller bird. I need something of girth and hearty stock as I am bound to screw up. In NY, a falconer can choose between an American Kestrel and a Red Tailed Hawk at the apprentice level and the size, frailty, and small margin for error moved me away from the Kestrel. But now you've got me curious about birdy CPR. That is something I want to see, and not because I doubt you. You are legit as it gets so I'm just curious and soon to be fascinated at this point.

Eventually I need to get a feel for the little ones though. When I complete my education I'd like to dabble in propagating injured birds that can't be re-released. There is an eagle breeding program near me but I must first master the Way of the Pigeon.

And cwebs, I'm still jealous of that tree. I don't even think those can grow here outside a lab. I'd love to not have to pay for my OJ. Everything is expensive here and I live upstate. NYC is worse. Everything costs about a buck more there than he so I should be happy with my 4 buck a gallon Tropicana.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Cweb, Koo, Krzys, you are all too kind. Happy to help fellow bird lovers. Koo I had an american kestrel two years ago, got pics and vid of that too, it was a fledgling found on the road and HIGHLY illegal to keep so after medicating and hanging on to it for a month once it grew out of its baby down, I released it. It was awesome. It was so sleek and predatorial. Quite an impressive bird and gave me no inidcation of frailty lol. They are fierce little buggers. It ate EVERYTHING, from frogs to mice to birds. I considered selling it to a falconer but it was just so illegal for me to even rehab, so I let it go. 

Regarding bubbles, I sent u the vid of hand feeding him at @ 4 days old. I found him kicked out of his nest in the budgie cage lying dead on the cold metal floor. Now he was not long dead but he was the color white of this page Im typing on and flat as a pancake when I ran into the bathroom with him. I said to myself, your not dead till ur warm and dead, and lay him on heating pad, blew into his little beak super fast almost at hyperventilation speed and kept rubbing him and doing this over and over again for 45 min. He colored up once then went white again and I kept at it till he chirped, then I felt he was ok enough to leave in brooder. He is a beautiful and tame bird and will take vid of the few that I have. To this day, every time I look at him, I cannot believe that I was successful in doing that to a tiny little bird. I had attempted that on two other adult birds that were quite young who just dropped dead off the perch, with no luck, so for that to work on a tiny bird as u will see in the video I sent you, shocked the crap out of me, but I could not be happier for it. He is a little miracle. Happy feet is another, raised from an egg. Got her name because when she saw me coming to feed her she would tapdance literally with her little feet SO cute.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

cwebster said:


> You are doing great with Archimedes! And I enjoyed the comparison of CBL to Cesar Milan. She really is the bird whisperer! I live in CAand I'm jealous of your orange tree too.


You are now the 3rd person to call her that I think. I called her that, Koomori called that and now you. Truth is, she is a pigeon whisperer!


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> Cweb, Koo, Krzys, you are all too kind. Happy to help fellow bird lovers. Koo I had an american kestrel two years ago, got pics and vid of that too, it was a fledgling found on the road and HIGHLY illegal to keep so after medicating and hanging on to it for a month once it grew out of its baby down, I released it. It was awesome. It was so sleek and predatorial. Quite an impressive bird and gave me no inidcation of frailty lol. They are fierce little buggers. It ate EVERYTHING, from frogs to mice to birds. I considered selling it to a falconer but it was just so illegal for me to even rehab, so I let it go.


I WANT TO HEAR more about this when i talk to you later today or see you next week.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

krzys_cce said:


> You are not the 3rd person to call her that I think. I called her that, Koomori called that and now you. Truth is, she is a pigeon whisperer!


We need to further legitimize this with a new member status under her username. Instead of Matriarch/Patriarch, I vote for Bird Whisperer.

I'm going to DL and watch those videos after midterms today. Got a Biology of Birds exam, an Animal Behavior exam and an ethology report due. щ(ﾟдﾟщ)ｺﾞﾗｰ!Soooo muuuch test. I'll be happy to get back home and do some pigeon therapy.

I'll post another video of my grabby skills (or lack thereof lol) after reviewing the other vids. You have to get the most fiesty bitey pigeon and show me that (if you haven't already and I just didn't watch it yet.) Archimedes won't let me do the one-hand grab. He just attacks.

Do you think it makes a difference because he's never nested? He was found in the wild as an injured baby and according to his former caretakers, he never had a nest. Or do you think that sort of thing is hardwired?


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

Koomori said:


> We need to further legitimize this with a new member status under her username. Instead of Matriarch/Patriarch, I vote for Bird Whisperer.
> 
> I'm going to DL and watch those videos after midterms today. Got a Biology of Birds exam, an Animal Behavior exam and an ethology report due. щ(ﾟдﾟщ)ｺﾞﾗｰ!Soooo muuuch test. I'll be happy to get back home and do some pigeon therapy.
> 
> ...


HAH i agree!

Good luck on your exams!

Btw, here is my rageddy bird calling for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozBcZiATAHg

here she is following me around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpiarvY3wGc


CBL is helping me get my JOBO into peek condition. I was feeding her right food and letting her sleep as much as birds require. I would let her sit with me until 10-11pm each night which is WAY to late. Now she goes to sleep at sundown, wakes up at sunset etc etc.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

CBL said:


> Cweb, Koo, Krzys, you are all too kind. Happy to help fellow bird lovers. Koo I had an american kestrel two years ago, got pics and vid of that too, it was a fledgling found on the road and HIGHLY illegal to keep so after medicating and hanging on to it for a month once it grew out of its baby down, I released it. It was awesome. It was so sleek and predatorial. Quite an impressive bird and gave me no inidcation of frailty lol. They are fierce little buggers. It ate EVERYTHING, from frogs to mice to birds..


Oh pics please!

And don't feel alone in you law breakingness. That sort of thing is illegal here and I'm guilty as sin but only for dead birds. I took the "vulture approach" to my early studies of bird anatomy and I used to collect fresh (and only fresh) roadkill or forest kills and dissect them at home. I never photographed anything because I was scared of being caught but I kept a lot of notes. My latest one was a gorgeous male Cooper's hawk that struck a parked car. 

I figured I was doing a favor by preserving the bird before it gets destroyed and spreads disease. Needless to say I have a small cemetary where I keep the remains. I treat them respectfully and I don't even keep feathers. I just like seeing their insides and learning about them.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol girl ur a nut, but sound like u have some good scientific knowledge and by nut I mean in a good way. We have a pair of bald eagles across the street from me, I went to go look for any shed feathers to keep, ya right, happened to google it and dont want the 10-200K fine you get if u possess one, unless your native and then u put ur name on a waiting list for body parts and feathers. No thanks lol.

Check ur email inbox


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

CBL said:


> Lol girl ur a nut, but sound like u have some good scientific knowledge and by nut I mean in a good way. We have a pair of bald eagles across the street from me, I went to go look for any shed feathers to keep, ya right, happened to google it and dont want the 10-200K fine you get if u possess one, unless your native and then u put ur name on a waiting list for body parts and feathers. No thanks lol.
> 
> Check ur email inbox


I'm one hour away from taking my midterm and my crappy old phone can't handle life. But I'll definitely check when I get home. I'm excited now, I've been catching the blurbs in the notifications. Feel free to blow up my inbox with bird spam, I can't imagine that gets said enough.

I'm the best possible crazy. I watched Big Bird Goes to Tokyo in 1989 and since then I've been obsessed with birds and Japan. May as well get scientifical about it. Also, I can avoid the fine by getting a scientific license and NYDEC/USFWS is pretty awesome about taking applications. Completing my BT for Wildlife Management only further justifies my 'crazy bird lady' tendencies. 

Maybe later I'll post somewhere else, like the General forum, some of the hawks and eagles I've worked with legally LOL


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

That is awesome and equally excited to see those pics. Please keep my videos of 'you know what' private thanks lol, and I did blow ur inbox up, lol just shorts but to the point. Im off to work now too. Have a blast and any questions via here or email are fine with me  If I had to do it all again, would have been a vet. Was dog crazy before bird crazy, and now my new siggy is just basically critter crazy as I lovem all. Hence [email protected]

Would also have loved to work in a rehab facility, but nothing close by enough for me and auto business keeps me hopping busy. Add in the critters and a demanding husband and Im runnin so late already .........ciao for now.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

*LLol*



spirit wings said:


> Videos of " you know what"...... ? Oh my! 😳



Animals that may or may not be legal to own or rehab. Get ur mind out of the gutter lol.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> Animals that may or may not be legal to own or rehab. Get ur mind out of the gutter lol.


haha now we know why some people in here think we are going around letting pigeons hump our hands or whatever


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

krzys_cce said:


> haha now we know why some people in here think we are going around letting pigeons hump our hands or whatever


ハハハは&#55357;&#56613;(≧∇≦)♡♡♡ Oh I feel so at home here! You guys have been so great and I'm really glad I found this forum now. I'll be posting tomorrow because now's party time. I think I aced my Ornithology midterm with a projected A so I'm half way to well celebrated. 

Speaking of teh humps, I think I figured out why Archimedes is so bitey. Is it mating season for him? Because I think he was trying to mate with a discarded plastic bag. 

Whenever he starts doing "bird stuff" I video tape him so I can study and figure out his behaviors, right? So he did that. 

What do I do? (⊙ө⊙)

Seriously, is that partially why he's being aggressive? And how do I handle this?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Send me the videos.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> Send me the videos.


Better yet, put it on youtube and put the link here. I want to see too!


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

krzys_cce said:


> Better yet, put it on youtube and put the link here. I want to see too!


I plan to. (´∇｀) I really want to figure this one out. He's such a weird bird but I love him so much. Very first time working with a pigeon so I understand nothing. I'll put the videos up before I go to bed.

EDIT: It's up there: I posted two videos on his "Bird Stuff" behaviors. Any insight as to why he's doing these things and how I can handle it would be really appreciated.

I'm still wondering if this is why he is so aggressive. Also, I removed the plush hawk from the room because I didn't want him feeling threatened or to keep attacking it. I hid the plastic bags too. Eeek.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

Koomori said:


> I plan to. (´∇｀) I really want to figure this one out. He's such a weird bird but I love him so much. Very first time working with a pigeon so I understand nothing. I'll put the videos up before I go to bed.
> 
> EDIT: It's up there: I posted two videos on his "Bird Stuff" behaviors. Any insight as to why he's doing these things and how I can handle it would be really appreciated.
> 
> I'm still wondering if this is why he is so aggressive. Also, I removed the plush hawk from the room because I didn't want him feeling threatened or to keep attacking it. I hid the plastic bags too. Eeek.


HAHA yup, it looks like typical male behaviour. He is wanting to mate with the BAG most defenitely.

For female behaviour, see one of my previous messages in this thread. I posted a 2 videos, one of JOBO flying after me and another one of her "calling for me". What she is actually doing is calling me to her nest for mating.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad you removed the hawk and plastic bags. This thread and videos are so entertaining! Hope you did well on your tests and hope Archimedes becomes a little friendlier. I am impressed by the sex drive of pigeons. Our female, Fiona, is starting to lose interest in her two no fertile eggs but is flirting with us again!


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

krzys_cce said:


> HAHA yup, it looks like typical male behaviour. He is wanting to mate with the BAG most defenitely.
> 
> For female behaviour, see one of my previous messages in this thread. I posted a 2 videos, one of JOBO flying after me and another one of her "calling for me". What she is actually doing is calling me to her nest for mating.


Those videos were so cute! And she's a pretty little girl too, I love the color differentials in this species, there are so many variations of pigeons I am finding it more and more amazing.

As for Archimedes, I'm still not entirely sure how to handle him. Should I stop until he's out of his rut? I'm just afraid of doing anything that may make him more aggressive.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Glad you removed the hawk and plastic bags. This thread and videos are so entertaining! Hope you did well on your tests and hope Archimedes becomes a little friendlier. I am impressed by the sex drive of pigeons. Our female, Fiona, is starting to lose interest in her two no fertile eggs but is flirting with us again!


This thread has been great, let me tell you, what an introduction to all this. I can't express enough how glad I am to have found this forum and those within it who have replied and helped me to gain insight and find like-minded individuals. I'll know my grades in a few days, here's to hoping I maintain my GPA.

As for Archimedes becoming less aggressive.. I hope he does too! He's been picking fights with other objects though. I'm hoping he grows out of this when his... hormones subside... a bit. Until then, I'm having a hard time with him. He is just very, very, forthcoming with his attacks, so much so that I have stopped handling him in the hopes that he'll chill his little birdy butt out.


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## PamperedPigeon (Sep 23, 2014)

CBL...I would also love to see your videos. My male is also bogey and flighty. We try to be very patient with him and he has his good and bad days, but I'd love to know your training techniques. I'll PM you with my email.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

krzys_cce said:


> haha now we know why some people in here think we are going around letting pigeons hump our hands or whatever


I've seen plenty of video that was posted here, I've been around a while, so yes others do think it is cute and video it and post it. No one said you did. Good try on the high school type gang up, but it won't work here. Now no more said about it to not ruin thread for others, I've deleted my joke, I thought it funny , but was wrong.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> I've seen plenty of video that was posted here, I've been around a while, so yes others do think it is cute and video it and post it. No one said you did. Good try on the high school type gang up, but it won't work here. Now no more said about it to not ruin thread for others, I've deleted my joke, I thought it funny , but was wrong.


High school gang up?

What hppened? Did I miss something? Well, for what its worth, I've been having a great time talking with you all. 

An update on Archimedes, anyone? (≧∇≦)

He is still pretty bitey but I think he just doesn't like to be held. Like he's too macho or something. But he gets excited to see me, he lets me bathe him (and hates it but he allows it), and now he'll jump/fly to my arm and chill on my shoulder. So he's not at this moment an incredibly 'huggy' bird but I'm cool with that. 

His foot is looking better too, I'm watching this blood blister he's got going on. It's black and gross so its dead skin and I'm hoping the epsom salt loosens it up.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

If you keep handling him as videos, he sure will tame down, and enjoy it, then DEMAND it lol


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

CBL said:


> If you keep handling him as videos, he sure will tame down, and enjoy it, then DEMAND it lol


I will! I have everything you sent me in afolder and I'm keeping track of what I see versus what's going on now and what I might expect. As for his humping plastic bags and attacking plush hawks, a friend of mine in my ornithology class suggested that this is actually a good sign because he is 'acting natural.' This was said in contrast to behaviors he doesn't do, which is excessive pacing or feather pulling. 

I'm hoping he'll mellow out after the equinox or the solstice, he'll be getting ready to moult by then so I'm not expecting so much aggression then. Poor guy. I'd hate to moult. Imagine going bald and growing new hair once a year. Ew.

On a side note, Archimedes LOVES my son. Follows him around, wants him to put his arm out to perch on, rides on his shoulder... (ノ-_-)ノ~┻━┻ Go figure. And the kid didn't even have to try. That's just funny considering how hard I do. But I have faith!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hhahahahahah typical eh lol


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Phoebe likes me right now. Sometimes she switches off and likes my significant other. The person she likes, she plays with, rides on our shoulder, and the person she doesn't like, she bites, kind of like Archimedes does. I think the pigeon brain only has the ability to bond with one creature at a time.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Na ah lol. My girls are more bonded with me, but hey jump and fuss up the hubby and anyone that pays them some attention. They love my hubby. Even fussed up Kryzs tonight.


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## notoriousqueenpigeon (Apr 15, 2011)

looka like a homer, not a king. kings are more portley. on the biter note, some pigeons are bitey. fierce and protective of their mates. if this one just does it for no reason, pet his head, where the beak cant reach. and on the wattle as well, some never break the habit. a pigeon man i follow, dennis of Hawk Bait lofts in california has u tube videos of his byter bird, De-Byter. you should go search for the video. it is really cute and funny.


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## Koomori (Mar 9, 2015)

Sorry I took forever to respond but... finals. OMG. Finals week came up and I found myself having 10 days to complete three biology write-ups (all three were on birds for my Ornithology and Animal Behavior class so, yay!), a Social Psychology final paper (17 pages of awesome), a Sports Injury Management Paper and then study for final exams on top of that. Basically, school ate my life from the last time I posted up until today when I finally got my final grades back and all my Honor Society stuff handed in. 

Ugh. School. Love it but damn does it take away from my internet time. Priorities. Passed everything with A's though so it was well worth it. 3.88 GPA and 47 credits toward the 60 I need for my Environmental Science degree!

ANYWAY... On to the pigeon. 

So I brought Archimedes to a friend of mine who is a dedicated caregiver of all types of birds but houses well over 100 pigeons in his sanctuary. Most of them are injured (some worse than others), imprinted, or otherwise unable to survive on their own in the wild. He also had a special invasive species permit so he can house pigeons used for racing but for whatever reason could no longer be housed where they were. This guy, Peter, is really in tune with his housed species so in lieu of making a trip to a vet I just can't afford right now, I asked him to try and determine what my little Archimedes is.

Peter took one look at him and just said, "He's a King, you can't tell?" 

"Well hey now," I laughed, "I'm the vulture girl, remember? Pigeons are a whole new world of bird to me."

So he took me over to his holding loft for the pigeons (they are getting a massive new home this summer, I'm going to help build it as a volunteer) and he showed me where his Kings are. Oh yeah. It was like I was staring at about five more Archimedes... es.. Archimedi? The Peter pointed out a bunch of differences that really are kinda hard to spot unless you're really familiar (like he is and like how you guys are) and seeing the birds in person. Archimedes is a pretty large bird. He's bigger than the crow I had taxidermied this year, easily a half-size larger, but he seemed right on par with the other Kings in height and girth. I like to call him my "pretty chicken" because of the way he walks and how he's all white like a cartoon farm animal. 

I'm going to call the debate over and say he's a King. I know Peter, I trust Peter, several others here have also suggested that he was a King and so I am going to go with that. But as far as his biting... I totally 100% agree with you NotoriousPigeonQueen, I think that's just his type.

I watched those De-byter videos and those were very cute and quite entertaining. Archimedes is like that. he's feisty and territorial but I expect him to be - Hell, I would be too. Especially if some giant animal came in and changed my room all the time, tried to put pants on me, and then took me to weird places. But he's a service animal and he's got a job to do, which he doesn't mind doing for the most part it's just the initial "Hey WTF are you doing in my pigeon room GET OUT" that we're still working on.

But now, he does come to me when I call him. If I leave the room and call to him he'll find me (we play hide-and-seek when we get bored). He does let me pick him up, he will perch on my hand and shoulder without biting... he just doesn't like to be handled too much.

I think when I initially posted this topic, I was just so horribly, horribly new to this I had no concept of pigeon personalities. I'm used to hawks and vultures, which can be pretty submissive, way more than you'd think, but they train really easily and really well. A pigeon is a LOT different. Especially when you get a male, who is very dominant in personality, right before breeding season, and you throw him in a new situation. I bit off a big hunk there and it's taken me several months to chew but I think I got it down now.

Archimedes like to be treated a certain way and he's gotten good at telling me. Which is... just so cute. We've built a big nest and when he needs paper for it, he hops up on my desk and pecks at the pile until I tear off little strips and give it to him. I've got the video up on YouTube here: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSTyswMwHAA

This video is the first of many (of which I have not uploaded yet) but that was the "starter nest" and has since grew to a massive 3.5 feet of space contained in a large, shallow-sided cardboard box my chest of drawers came in. I love how he just takes off running when he finds the piece he's looking for. I've really gotta update these videos so ya'll can see his giant nest box.

Anyway, he still bites but not as bad. I think he's gotten used to me and my handling, and he lets me know what's comfortable and what's not. Overall things are about 75% better from where they were when I first got him. He seems very happy if not a bit lonely. I'm working on finding him a mate through my buddy Peter, but I don;t intend to let them breed. I just want Archimedes to get the most out of his life as a Service Animal so I'm gonna hook him up with a woman. I know I'm asking for more defensive behavior from him in that though. He'll probably try to kill me if I touch her. You should see what he does when I clean his nest.


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## HeavyDlofts (May 23, 2012)

Nice looking pigeon


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