# Puncture Wound Through Wing.



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I've just been to collect a lovely pigeon called Snowy. Although a banded bird, she's been living wild with a feral flock that lives on my dog breeder's house for at least the last year.
She is almost pure white and Janet, who feeds them has always had a very special love for her. The other day she was aware that she was staying on her roof constantly even when the other birds flew off after feeding. The next morning, she put some seed on the ground and Snowy literally fell from the roof trying to fly down. She had lost the use of one wing. Luckily Janet got her in a cage and called me to see if I could see what was wrong.

I've found a small hole under the wing but now I've got her home, have found an exit wound on the top of the shoulder. I've bathed it with hibiscrub, got the scab off that had formed in it, and put some Hypercal cream in the hole.
I know they have a Sparrow Hawk that has taken pigeons before, and I think this might be from that. Janet's always been worried that Snowy stood out from the crowd with her colour.

I assume the reason she isn't using the wing is due to the wound as opposed to anything being broken, so do I need to strap it up while this heals as it hangs slightly lower than the other wing?

Janet


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi JANET, Snowy is a very nice looking grizzle. I believe that this bird was shot while flying from the pictures the smaller hole is the entrence and the larger wound is the exit hole. Most likey a BB gun anything larger like a pellet gun or 22 the wound would be much larger.hopefuly there no broken bones but could have a small fracture so a sling might be needed.I hope that some rehaber that knows more about these things will be along to advise you.*GEORGE


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

hi Janet

As i dont know nothing about the homephaty, i cant advise on it. I just would use diluted (to the color of tea, as to not burn the tissue) betadine to flush first time, the second time i would flash with any saline solution. Apply like bacitracin-neomycin-polymyxin ointment and then do wrap the wing in body to wing wrap. 10 days on Baytril. If you would have hydrogel dressing i would do that for 4 days , then changed as needed instead of just simple ointment , dressing and wrap. You would have to take the wrap every couple days off to see how is healing anyhow. If its not broken.If it is broken then same wrap to body, but you cant take off, you would have to wrap in such way , as you could still see the wound and cleaned if NEEDED.If you doing hydrogel dressing , then just clean with saline , let it dry and then apply the dressing, so no moisture will be there. You know, if this is BB like George said, then vet visit with xray, would tell you if, there is possibility of taking some small things out of the wound, cause that should be done, if of curse possible. If not then healing process could push those out thru the tissue later. I dunno. It is much easier for someone to have a vet and just folow the instructions.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks George and Corvid.

It hadn't crossed my mind that it might be a shot wound. I don't know if the picture shows clearly enough where it is. It's right on the edge of the top of the wing so I don't know if there would be a bone in there or just skin/tissue.
Now I look at it again, the wing must have been outstretched at the time for it to go through from top to bottom and not enter the body, so it is possible.

I've given her Aconite, Arnica 30 and Bellis Perennis 30 for deep tissue damage and pain relief so far from the homeopathy remedies.

Her poops are very watery at the moment aswell.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I agree about the shot, she was lucky! The photo below is of another white pigeon that had a shot go through her wing (shattering bones) and through her body. The wing droops a bit now, but she is able to fly.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=288&pictureid=3163

There is something in my little homeopathy book on how to treat gun shot wounds (I think!) but I have mislaid the book! It might be a good idea to work your way around the very edge of the wound with sterile tweezers, just pulling gently, because there might be feathers in the wound...if you look at my album I have a photo of the feathers that I got out, I couldn't see any when I looked at the wound itself.

I just kept my pigeon's wound clean and treated her with synulox.


Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

I found the paragraph on gunhot wounds on the internet from the homeopathy book. It centred more on the ones that would need surgery but I picked up what to use from the skin injury part.
Hypericum 30 for puncture wounds if there is a lot of pain, Calendula 30 to aid healing and Hypercal Lotion on the wound, luckily I have all those, so will use them too.

That photo of your bird is horrendous, it's wonderful that it could still fly after that injury. I do hope Snowy can recover her flight.

Do you think I should strap it up? I can take a picture tomorrow of the wing position if it helps.

I feel really responsible for getting this right as Snowy is the reason Janet started feeding the ferals. She comes every day to her house for a meal and Janet watches for her and always points her out to me if ever I go to see them. She's desperate for her to be back with them.

Janet


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad your friend, Janet brought him inside and cares very deeply for the bird. It is no doubt her care has kept him alive.

I wouldn't let this bird out again after this incident (even if the wing fully heals), it is domestic bird and used to being fed by its owners and kept in a loft. Being outside again would on;y allow another such incident and the bird is very vulnarable for something else to happen.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that particular place presents some interesting problems... it's a webbing of flesh that has some tendon-like strands in it that help extend the wing tip when the bird pulls the humerus out and extends the forearm portion (radius and ulna). You can see some of that here even though they don't list names for them:










...and:










Hard to say how that's going to work out. If the bird can't properly extend the tip of the wing, which does most of the work by the way, then she won't be releasable.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,

I did wonder about what was in that area with regard to tendons etc. I don't know if you can see in the close up picture of the underside part of the wound, there is something in there that is attached and a little hard. I gave it a slight tug with the tweezers when I was pulling out the feathers around the hole thinking it was just a feather stuck in there. She flinched so I left it alone as she could obviously feel it. Wondered if it might be something that's been severed.

I held her up in my hand and let it drop to see what the wings would do and there was very little reaction in that wing whereas she instinctively extended the good one. The tip droops down when she stands at the moment as opposed to the shoulder.
So would there be any benefit in strapping it to her body while the hole heals?

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, take another picture from further back so that we can see how the wing is hanging with respect to her body. I'd probably lightly tape it up for awhile.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Ok, will take one tomorrow and post it. Thanks.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Trees Gray said:


> I'm glad your friend, Janet brought him inside and cares very deeply for the bird. It is no doubt her care has kept him alive.
> 
> I wouldn't let this bird out again after this incident (even if the wing fully heals), it is domestic bird and used to being fed by its owners and kept in a loft. Being outside again would on;y allow another such incident and the bird is very vulnarable for something else to happen.


I know you're right, I'll have to try and find it a proper home, I'm sure she'll understand. I know she was always worrying for it out there as she could see it was banded.
It is quite scarey to think that if she hadn't got into the habit of looking for it every day, she wouldn't have known it was in trouble. It's a really lovely bird.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet, I hope the bird does not have something inside that hole like some small pellet. You could try putting a flashlight under the wing and look, perhaps the whole tissue becomes slightly transparent and you can see something there. Is pretty much the same effect that you would get if you put flash lighter in your palm and look to the other side, the hand would be slightly transparent.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Christina,
The hole goes right through to the other side of the wing, so fortunately I can see there isn't anything in there. Thanks for the tip though.
-Janet x
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bathed the wound again this morning and I can see the skin looks very 
greenish around the whole area, I assume that's bruising.
There is a black line in the fold of the wing which I hope can be seen in these pictures. I plucked some feathers away from it to make sure there wasn't another wound, but I don't think there are any more punctures. Wonder what that might be.









Also pictures of how she's holding the wing. It actually seems lower today. She has lost a lot of tail feathers aswell so not sure exactly what did happen to her.









She's very subdued and not eating. Poops are watery and cream.
Should I force feed her or give her another day to see if she does better tomorrow?

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Better get her on an antibiotic like Clavamox pretty quickly if you haven't already.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,

Started Noroclav (Synulox) today, is that our equivalent to Clamamox?
All I have apart from Baytril.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, that's the stuff.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Snowy is starting to eat better now.
Her poops aren't too good though. They are brown but the urates are purely water. When I change her bedding in the carrier it is soaking wet, no white at all. I have been putting Potent Brew in her water.
Is there something I should be treating her for that would be causing them to be like this? She is still on Noroclav for the puncture wound.

Still no movement in the wing either even though the hole is still there, but it looks clean. The skin looks yellowy and still has the black patch.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It can take quite awhile. Weeks.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Just wondered what else I can try to see if I can sort out this wet poop problem. She is on no meds now and I have been giving her Probiotic yoghurt and ACV water but her poops are still just water with green/brown stringy bits in. Plenty of them aswell. Her box is soaking wet when I change her bedding.
How long roughly might it take to see some improvement after stopping the Noroclav and giving Probiotics?

Thanks

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet.

The main causes of watery poops are cocci, PMV and diabetes. 

Have you treated her with Appertex? You could get some diasticks from the chemist and check her glucose levels. Have you been giving her Potent brew? That would be the better probiotic for her. 

Cynthia


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Cyro51
Do you know the glucose level that is normal for pigeons. Is it different from human normal levels? If it is diabetes, wouldn't a blood test be more accurate test?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Rainbows,

The diastick test will show whether there are increased glucose levels and if negative would eliminate diabetes as a cause of the watery poops (diabetes in pigeons is very rare). 

This method of testing was recommended by E.D.W. Harper in his book "Problem Droppings Explained" which is all about our favourite subject, pigeon poop!

When one of my rescues had watery poops I used the diastick which showed slightly increased glucose levels, so I went armed with that to the vet, but he said it was more likely to be PMV...he was right, a couple of days later the pigeon developed nervous symptoms.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

I gave her one dose of Appertex when she first arrived together with Spartrix and Harkers wormer.

I have given her Potent Brew aswell but not everyday.

That's why I was starting to think it might be something else. I am also giving her the Vitalzyms that Maria is trying for March.

I'll try and get the diastick tomorrow. She has been with me 12 days now and the only change in her poops have been from creamy yellow urates to this watery type, although there is sometimes a slight smear of white in there occasionally now.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, Please can anyone help to identify this skin condition that has now started under her wing. It is very hard and scabby under the feathers and is bleeding where the scab has come away. The puncture hole in her wing still hasn't healed over either. She really isn't showing any improvement in any way at all poor soul.
This is what is at the base of the feathers when they came away.








The skin is very open and bleeding with hard scabs.

















Thanks

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There must be some kind of infection inside that's causing the widespread inflammatory response. It'd be nice to have a lab identify whatever it is and a vet give the bird a suitable antibiotic. If you were forced to experiment, you'd probably start with a Tetracycline of some sort. Do you have access to anything like that? There might also be a fungal infection that would require a systemic antifungal. I'm sure that's probably "vet only" in your neck of the woods.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I have only two 20mg tablets of Ronaxan which I think is Tetracycline or Doxycycline that I had left after Tweet died. That wouldn't be enough I don't suppose to make any impact.

I have a fungal Med from when I was treating Tweet again. It is Itrafungol. ( it says on the box it's for treating cats with dermatophytosis), and contains Itraconazole. I think if my memory serves me right they gave me that as they didn't have any Nystatin at the time. Would that be any good?

Otherwise I'll certainly try sending the pictures to the vet that gave me these and see if he'll help.

Janet


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## 12788 (Nov 15, 2008)

Hi Janet,

This could be a Staphylococcus aureus infection as this organism is often found as a part of the normal skin flora and can be transmitted from the skin into traumatised bone or soft tissue during the trauma. Infection due to foreign bodies (e.g. bullets) is the result of the reactivation of a small number of surviving bacteria. Colonies of those germs are usually large (6-8 mm in diameter), smooth, and translucent. The colonies are pigmented, ranging from yellow to orange and bleeding is common. However, the only way to find out is take a sample and get your vet to find out the strain. But, this takes a bit of time and treatment should be commenced as soon as possible before the infection spreads any further. Good luck!!!

rook.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I've just been looking back at some pictures I took of another pigeon I had a while ago and now I look at this, it seems very similar.
This is the previous one.









The vet then didn't take any samples and so I never got a proper diagnosis. After being on a long course of Baytril it just kept getting steadily worse, and the skin was covered with a thick yellow scab like material. After a while the vet said we should just leave it alone and see what happened. It did clear up and all the feathers grew back in over time. He still is unable to use the wing I assume from the damage from the initial injury, but it looks fine now.

I don't know if this is the same but I will try and see a vet asap.

This may be a very silly question but I'm going to have to ask to stop me worrying, the bird caught my hand with it's claw tonight and made it bleed, is there any danger of infection from this?

Thanks for your help on this,

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, you'd need more than that to make a good course of it (the Ronaxan). It's Doxycycline Hyclate, which means it makes it past the stomach acidity better. What information do you have on the Itrafungol?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Use iodine on your cut. Matter of fact, you might try spreading Betadine (10% Povidone Iodine) on that wing.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Matter of fact, you might try spreading Betadine (10% Povidone Iodine) on that wing.


That has been discontinued in the UK but Tamodine, the povidone iodine solution for birds, is available from Vetark.

I think I have a little that I decanted a couple of years ago...I don't know if it is still useable, but will send a small vial in the post today.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Cynthia,

I've got something I bought from the pigeon suppliers shop that is called V18 Viodine, complex disinfectant. He recommended it for cleaning the perches and spraying the walls, sanitising drinking water, can even use it as a dip for the birds, not that I have, not sure about having yellow tinted birds! 
This maybe ok.

I've just got an appointment with the vet who has seen my other birds this afternoon, hope he can throw some light on this.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> What information do you have on the Itrafungol?
> 
> Pidgey


The active ingredient is Itraconazole 10mg/ml oral solution. Other ingredients propylene glycol,sorbitol, caramel.
It is for treating dermatophytosis in cats caused by Microsporum canis.
Quote:
The mode of action of itraconazole is based on it's binding ability to fungal Cytochrome P-450 iso-enzymes. This inhibits the synthesis of ergosterol and affects membrane-bound enzyme function and membrane permeability. The effect is irreversible and causes structural degeneration.
There is a lot of info in the leaflet inside about the various interactions with other human drugs and what drugs to aviod mixing it with, but apart from all that this is all I can find out I'm afraid.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Just an update after my vet visit. There is an infection going on in there but he thinks it's as a result of a high impact trauma. He said it's probable she was clipped by a Sparrow Hawk initially, making that puncture wound. Then that might have caused her to fly into something hard with her wing extended as the injury is the whole width of the wing to the elbow. He said it was lucky she didn't break it as it must have been quite a force to cause that damage.
He took a piece of scab off and there is new tissue forming so it is healing. The swelling and lumps under the skin are the infection and bruising. (hopefully). The yellow lump on the end of the feather was an infected follicle.
So, she is on a long course of Synulox and I have to rub warm Nivea cream into the wing to encourage the scab to come off naturally.

Good news if it is what he thinks, she's not infectious and could well regain the use of the wing once it's cleared up, with a bit of luck. 

So tomorrow I'll let her have the day with the other inmates, and that might cheer her up 

Thanks for your help last night,

Janet


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