# feed



## fuzzy (Sep 12, 2004)

i've been feeding whole grain and switched to pellets and what a mess. there droppins are a mess. will they dry up? fuzzy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Diet changes can cause a change in dropping appearance.
It should clear up once they get adjusted to it. This can take anywhere form a few days to a couple of weeks.

Reti


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I would think that the pellets would have improved the droppings since it's a balanced mixture of all the seeds and healthier for the pigeons to eat rather than when they just pick out their favourites. But I agree with Reti and it's probably just from the change.

Try giving them some probiotics.


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## fuzzy (Sep 12, 2004)

thanks for the fast replys. i guess i will try to feed the pellets a few more days to see if it gets better. i need to know more about probiotics. fuzzy


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

*Pellets v. grain*

I tried switching my pigeons to pellets a few years back and found, as you did, that it was a mess! The adults' droppings were larger, looser and smellier, and when they had babies the nest was an awful mess. I had them on pellets for a month or two and things didn't get any better, so I went back to grain. Personally, I just couldn't deal with the mess.

There are some advantages to feeding pellets, though. Each pigeon gets the same nutrition, whereas with grain, the birds at the top of the pecking order eat the best seeds first, perhaps leaving less nutritious grain for birds that are lower in the hierarchy. Pellets are supposed to be better for babies, too, though I didn't notice any difference between chicks raised on grain versus chicks raised on pellets.

I feed my birds 16% protein pigeon mix and supplement them with vitamins, trace minerals and grit that also contains oyster shell. I also have them on a probiotic system of supplements that I believe maintains their condition and helps ward off disease. 

I think the bottom line is that it comes down to personal preference. They should have at least 14% protein, though.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I've heard that feeding pellets can cause their droppings to be "loose." I cannot recall where I read it.

I feed seed too, but mix in some LEVU-CORN pellets a couple of times a week.
You can get it from Jedds.


*LEVU-CORN 2 kg (Versele-Laga)*
The brewer's yeast pellet with Fructo-oligosaccharides. LEVU-CORN is an easily digetable extruded pigeon pellet rich in brewer's yeast, to be served as a supplement to basic grain mixtures.
LEVU-CORN is:
+ easy and tidy in usage
+ time-saving
+ always the correct dosage
+ rich in proteins and B-Complex vitamins
+ very well accepted because of its nice round shape
Composition:
. Protein 21.00%
. Oil 10.00%
. Fiber 3.00%
. Ash 4.00%
. Calcium 1.20%
. Phosphorus 0.80%
. Vitamin A 15000 U.I.
. Vitamin 03 3000 U.I.
. Vitamin E 25.000 mg
. Vitamin K3 1.500 mg
. Vitamin S1 2.000 mg
. Vitamin B2 8.000 mg
. Vitamin B3 15.700 mg
. Vitamin B12 0.015 mg
. Vitamin C 30.000 mg
. Vitamin PP 40.000 mg
. Folic acid 0.500 mg
. Biotin 0.030 mg
. Cholin chloride 700.00 mg
Administration and dosage:
- the whole year through.
- 4 grams (= 1 teaspoon) per pigeon per day, 1 to 2 times a week.
-- Note:
Shelf life is 1 year from the manufacturing date.
To be stored in a dry and cool place.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Quality of pellets*

Are you buying "Pigeon Pellets", or are you using turkey pellets ? Even the pigeon pellets may have an awful high protein %. I mix it with my regular feed for my breeders. My personal experience is 100% pellets is simply too rich.


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## fuzzy (Sep 12, 2004)

it is pigeon pellits 16%. they drink about 3 times more then when on grain. fuzzy


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

It's the salt. and the added water consumption due to it along with whats in it. There are pellets out there that doesn't have this effect. "Nutrina" is one of them. You just have to try different brands. If you can't find a pellet that Tightens up the droppings to near grain fed then You can try using mixing in some Salflour which will help. I use a 16 0/0 lay pellet by "Nutrina" and have no problems at all. But I have with other pellets, my loft walls still show it LOL


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

This site explains a bit about probiotics:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-dia.html

Some brands of probiotics designed for pigeons:
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-dia.html


Hope that helps.. if you need some more info you can type in the key word "probiotics" in our search and we have many beneficial posts about it.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

I might add that as far as healthy youngsters go that pellets are hard to beat. There is no cherry picking the grains like they do with grain. I've gone both ways several time's and allways end up back with the pellets during breeding season. You just have to find the right one's is all. 
Scott


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Hello,

Like Scott, I feed both grain and Pigeon Pellets, make sure that what you are feeding is actually for pigeons. I use a 17% Feed and a 27% Pellet. One of the problems I have seen with other flyers that feed only pellets is that the parents feel the youngsters up with the pellets and the crop on the youngsters get dry packed and it is very bad for them, there is no amount of grit that will help this situation. My personal oppinion would be to advise you to get your birds back on a grain and pellet mix and check to make sure the pellets you are feeding are for pigeons.

Ellen


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

You can never ever let the water lapse with pellets !!!!! not that you should anyway. I have had a couple of very rare instances where I felt the the crop was to hard on a youngster and felt the need to shoot some water into the crop. Whether it actually needed it or not I can't say but it didn't hurt. Generally I feed straight pellets but once a day give a candy grain such as Salflour. As for the stock loft during the off season I'll keep them on a straight mix. Also with the lay pellets grit isnt needed as it is allready in the pellet with calcium. I also use Calcium Gluconate (sp) in the water once a week or so during breeding season. This is for horses and you can get at feed stores or the pigeon supply houses, one table spoon per gallon does it and is probably the best calcium source you can get without using human tablets. Never do I get hens going off thier feet or chaulky eggs. If there is a lot of moisture in the air pellets aren't the best idea due to no drying of the droppings. Like I said earlier I did find one brand of pellets that I don't end up with loose droppings and I find that i can use year round if I choose.
Scott


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm sure it's true that some brands of pellets are better than others; I've found this to be true with our cage birds, as well.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Like Scott said You can never ever let the water lapse with pellets, not that you should anyway. In the one case I am talking about the person had automatic waters and so the birds had water, but the only thing we can figure is the parents were packing them with pellets and then giving them water and the pellets were swelling. We added more water via syringe and we worked the crop around to unpack it and both youngsters survived but from there on he fed feed with pellets on the side. And yes there are different types of pellets, what normally we are looking for is a good protein to help with growth of the new feathers some of us feed 50% peas in their diet to get enough protein to the youngsters during weaning and molting and you need good nutrition with calcium and such, purchasing a pigoen pellet usually has everything that a pigeon would need versus a Turkey or Chicken pellet.

Ellen


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK .. this is a I surely don't know question, but aren't you folks seriously overdosing on the protein? Holy cow! 27% in one product and 17% in another. Just curious .. too much protein in young waterfowl causes angel wing, gout, and other physical problems .. legs aren't developed enough to support the weight of the fat body and such .. makes for very "healthy" but impaired young waterfowl. It may not be the same for pigeons, but I'm curious. I think conventional "wisdom" supports very high protein in the early weeks of life for most birds and then tapering off to what would a normal adult "dose". In waterfowl, that would be slamming the 21%+ for the first three weeks and then backing it down to the 12-14% range.

Interesting thread.

Terry


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Terry,

Racing Pigeons need lots of protein in their developement stages and so the pellets they usually eat as they want but the feed they usually eat very well, my birds love pellets so they all eat them up. Protein is also very needed during the molt for homing pigeons and also helps with the pigeons condition after a long race to bring them back into form and helps relieves the tired muscles. If I ever drop to a 14% I feel guilty that I am feeding my birds what they call a winter keep which would be just the basics it is cheaper but I just would rather spend the extra money and have what they require, I really don't like going below a 16% for my breeders and the race birds are normally kept the same at 16% to a definate 17 to 17 1/2 percent during race season. I also have additives I add in there for them which includes spanish peanuts, sometimes even peanut butter on their feed and they love it. Now I don't know much about other breeds, but homing pigeons do require the increased nutrition as they are high strung and workers, they will sit and jitter to get out and fly and you have to keep up with them.

Ellen


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

My birds are weird when it comes to the pellet suplement I give them a couple of times a week. One of them, Gonzo, will scarf-down the pellets, pretty much ignoring the seeds. Others will pick up and eat some of the pellets, but prefer the seeds. While the rest will not even touch the pellets unless ALL of the seed is gone, even the stuff they eat last and they're still hungry. Pigeons, go figure.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

When they start feeding youngsters they will eat so much more, you will be amazed.  

Ellen


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Yes Terry too much protien is a problem, 16 0/0 is what I use for breeders.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Very interesting, now over the years I have learned to depend on a good protein, although I do mix extra ingredients in. But alot of Racing Pigeon flyers consider their pigeons to be similar to athletes and building muscle, if you look in your stores they sale so many protein drinks to help with muscle building as well as many other items, but the protein drinks are the largest seller for muscle builders and what you want is good muscles on your race birds as well as remembering to get rid of the toxins after heavy workouts with a depuritive and cleansers. I guess we all have our own theories and it seems some do better on one approach while other's do well on another. I have no complaints as our losses are minimal and record has been good so far.

Ellen


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for all the reponses. It makes sense to me that pigeons who fly and are raising young would need a higher protein level than rather sedate domestic ducks. 

Terry


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*Peanuts*

I've heard that raw-unsalted peanuts are good treats for pigeons.

I got a 5lb bag of them form Jedds awhile back and a couple of times a week I crush up a small hand-full and mix it in with my boys and girls feed. It took them a time or two to realize what they were, but now that they know about peanuts... its like YIPPIE!!! PEANUTS!!!... when ever I put any out.

I've also heard that its easy to over do it when it comes to giving pigeons peanuts... so, finally, my question... how much is enough and how much is too much when it comes to giving pigeons peanuts???


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Zig,

Don't crush them, just give them whole, they shoot them around like marbles the first few times but then they dive on them. I would throw in 4 or 5 for each bird and only do this no more then 2 to 3 times a week. Watch the weight on the birds as it does have a tendency to put a little weight on them. During summer months for racing you would not want to do it as much in the summer as it heats them up, it is what we call a hot feed.

Ellen


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

relofts said:


> Zig,
> 
> Don't crush them, just give them whole, they shoot them around like marbles the first few times but then they dive on them. I would throw in 4 or 5 for each bird and only do this no more then 2 to 3 times a week. Watch the weight on the birds as it does have a tendency to put a little weight on them. During summer months for racing you would not want to do it as much in the summer as it heats them up, it is what we call a hot feed.
> 
> Ellen


Ellen, Thanks. I've got 10 birds, so I figure a small hand-full works out to be about 4 or 5 per bird. Why not crush them though? I can't imagine them swallowing a peanut whole?


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Zig, it is no different then a dent corn, but trust me they can swallow it and will not waste any time. Like I said at first they may shoot them around the loft but it doesn't take long and they are scarfing.

Ellen


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Ellen,

Thanks. The next time I give them peanuts I won't crush them and will watch the entertainment. Well, its rainy & snowy here, but my two "momma birds" are on their eggs.


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## pigeon george (Aug 7, 2003)

*messy messy pellets*

IM GUILTY!!!!! I too have been feeding pellets frst was medicated than went to diffrent typ of grower pellet. I feed my birds a racing feed which cost about 18.00 for 50 lbs cheaper stuff was 12.00 but i noticed diffrent flying ability so i feed race mix i was giving one third pellets to give them stuff they could not get out of grain and to help with the cost but i see a birds health through its droppings and yes my coop,s are both a mess from the pellets and droppings are terrible so for me its bite the bullet buy good feed and give the rest of the pellts to the deer that come around p.s i waited two months for droppings to go back to normal but birds didnt adjust maybe diffrent type but i am not willing to try it


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## fuzzy (Sep 12, 2004)

thanks for all the info on pellets. i'm trying a firfty fifty mix of pellets and grain. it seem to have helped the dropping. my birds still seam to be happy even tho it is 20 cold out. fuzzy


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

I will try to get more specific here.

Race Birds, regular feed ration, pellets in a smaller feeder and filled up just like you do the grit and they will pick at if they want it. During race season it changes this is only for off season. During training and racing season you train with feed so you never want feed setting around.

Breeder Mix with youngsters - 2 cans feed, 1/2 can Safflower, 1/2 can pellets. I keep the feeder with food at all times.

Pellets are a good thing as long as it is a side to their regular feed, durring the youngsters molt lots of peas and pellets on the side are good, but for old birds and breeders during the molt extra barley is good, now when I say barley I am talking malting barley not roller it is the same as you would use for brewing, and don't give barley when they are feeding youngsters NEVER you could puncture the youngsters crop with the sharp point of the barley.

Ellen


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