# tim85851's intro post



## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Hey Pigeon-Talk members!
I just wanted to start an intro thread, a place to document my slow journey into becoming a fancier. Hopefully this won't bore you to death...lol

Forgive me if I chose the wrong place to put this thread.

I have always been fascinated with bird keeping, but recently a couple friends of mine got me hooked onto rollers! After a bunch of online reading, getting a chance to watch their birds perform, watching them trap-in their kit box, and countless nights of staying up researching; I decided that I wanted a pair of my own rollers to try and raise a kit for myself.

I live in Wisconsin and picked the worst season to start...WINTER! 
I have not yet built a loft/kit box since its way too cold (and we JUST got our first snowfall yesterday!) 

Knowing Wisconsin's climate and being an impatient person , I started searching on craigslist for an indoor cage that looked big enough to house a pair of pigeons. I opted for a guinea pig cage.

Here's what I found and picked up for $20 on 11/29/2015 @ 2:00AM...LOL...









As soon as I got the cage, I began to look into nest boxes, I decided to make a nest box out of hobby wood...I made the next box big enough to span front to back. Went to my local pet store and found coconut fiber nesting material.

Once I got the nest box all set up and arranged in the cage, I found a spot for the cage in my 4-season room (surrounded by some plants)...

I hit up my buddy Ben the next day to let him know I was ready for a pair since he has over 100 birds at his family's farm. He was very busy with final exams at school so he asked that we wait until the next week to pick out a pair.

A week passes by and its time to head to the farm...days before we went to the farm I stopped at a couple stores to pick up some feed, I mixed a couple different bags of pre-mixed food and added some other beans/seeds and ended up with this mix:









We finally get to the farm, Ben picks out a pair for me, originally he grabbed a gray checkered male and a brown/red checkered female but I was dead set on getting at least one white bird (just something I wanted to try out) so Ben willingly gave me his only white female...

I ended up with these awesome birds on 12/11/2015 - Meet: Snow White and Midnight (named by my mom...LOL)


















The day I picked up my birds they already were showing signs of interest in each other (the male began courting her in the showcase that Ben has)...this was a great sign for me.

there is a limit of 4 pictures per post, so I will continue on the next post...


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Heres a pic to give perspective to the size of cage vs roller size:









After a couple days in their new home - I decided they needed a little bit of privacy for their nest box since its a pretty open cage...I have a bunch of "craft sticks" and a hot glue gun, so I got a little creative and built a partial wall for them:









the next few days I noticed midnight and sitting in the nest together:









Then I noticed Midnight sitting in the nest during the day, and the Snow White sitting in the nest at night...

continued on the next post...


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Two days ago my friends were over and they swear that they saw Midnight mating with Snow White. Recently she has been sitting in the nest a lot, for long periods of time - she is VERY protective of her space (I was changing the papers in the cage and she tried aggressively pecking my hand multiple times)








Here's a couple questions I have - I already asked my friends but I wouldn't mind more input...
Do you think eggs are coming? Are they practicing for eggs? 

Thanks for reading, I will keep this thread up to date as time goes on, hopefully we see some eggs soon!


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I would think that in two weeks there will be white eggs in the nest for you to see. Because they look like they are getting along nicely. Give them dry chicken egg shells as a calcium substitute. They may need it. Good luck with your rollers.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Midnight and Snow White are lovely! Welcome to,the world of pigeons.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

hamlet said:


> Hello. I would think that in two weeks there will be white eggs in the nest for you to see. Because they look like they are getting along nicely. Give them dry chicken egg shells as a calcium substitute. They may need it. Good luck with your rollers.


I forgot to mention that I give them oyster shell and grit (technically for chickens, bought at farm and fleet)


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## pigeonraiser (Mar 23, 2001)

Sounds like your doing all the right things.Good luck with your rollers.Nice looking birds.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

pigeonraiser said:


> Sounds like your doing all the right things.Good luck with your rollers.Nice looking birds.


thank you!

small update: still no eggs


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Welcome to the wonderful world of pigeons  Enjoy 

I can't see the pictures though...


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Still no eggs...A couple days ago I witnessed them in the act - twice...

Do pigeons mate more than once to lay eggs?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. @Tim: I am curious about the amount of sun/light they are getting. I am thinking that because the days are cold and short in Wisconsin, the farm birds have gone into winter mode as they usually do in the winter months unless the lights are left on for ? number of hours extra like in chickens. So maybe give them three more hours of light bulb light plus the daylight and see what happens. Here, even though the days are a bit short, the weather is forgiving for pigeons. So they breed all year long. Call your farm friend and check to see if he used light bulbs for pigeons.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

hamlet said:


> Hello. @Tim: I am curious about the amount of sun/light they are getting. I am thinking that because the days are cold and short in Wisconsin, the farm birds have gone into winter mode as they usually do in the winter months unless the lights are left on for ? number of hours extra like in chickens. So maybe give them three more hours of light bulb light plus the daylight and see what happens. Here, even though the days are a bit short, the weather is forgiving for pigeons. So they breed all year long. Call your farm friend and check to see if he used light bulbs for pigeons.


some days I give them many hours of light, the room stays lit, I'm assuming the light doesn't need to be right next to their cage...again my pair is inside my house - in a 4 season room, the room is cooler than the rest of the house but no where near as cold as outside, no wind or wetness to worry about.

my friend's birds are laying eggs and hatching them in the cold in outdoor cages, no artificial light. 

my question wasn't answered yet: how many times will pigeons mate before an egg or more is conceived?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I hope you get a satisfying answer to your question. Its a silly question to me, because you may know that female pigeons lay eggs without courtship from the opposite gender. We know it is suppose to take about 10 days for healthy and happy pigeons to lay eggs. 
So do they climb out of their cage to gather nest material or do they gather them from the cage floor. Both pairs will play with the nest before they lay. Are they doing it? Sorry i do not have a number for you about the copulation. If you want to see something funny, then have them walk on a see through glass and when they mate, you should see the white stuff the male leaves on the female's cloaca if you look from underneath.
One more thing to keep in mind if they do not lay: you mentioned that she was the only white bird at the farm. I am hoping that all the white ones got preyed on, otherwise she may either be young or barren for not producing white/semiwhite pigeons.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

hamlet said:


> Hello. I hope you get a satisfying answer to your question. Its a silly question to me, because you may know that female pigeons lay eggs without courtship from the opposite gender. We know it is suppose to take about 10 days for healthy and happy pigeons to lay eggs.
> So do they climb out of their cage to gather nest material or do they gather them from the cage floor. Both pairs will play with the nest before they lay. Are they doing it? Sorry i do not have a number for you about the copulation. If you want to see something funny, then have them walk on a see through glass and when they mate, you should see the white stuff the male leaves on the female's cloaca if you look from underneath.
> One more thing to keep in mind if they do not lay: you mentioned that she was the only white bird at the farm. I am hoping that all the white ones got preyed on, otherwise she may either be young or barren for not producing white/semiwhite pigeons.


They both take turns sitting in the nest. Once in a while they both are in there at the same time (like in the picture from my original post).

At the farm, my friend's breeding cages are like half the size of my cage, and he gets plenty of successful batches. Since I figured his setup works - I recently removed the upper level, to kind of force them to be with each other even more than before.

Do you think the coconut fiber I originally provided is good for their nest? After doing some searching I am thinking I should get some alfalfa or timothy hay...


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

tim85851 said:


> Do you think the coconut fiber I originally provided is good for their nest? After doing some searching I am thinking I should get some alfalfa or timothy hay...


Hello. I read that straw houses bacteria. We use twigs, feathers, or long dry pine needles. If the coconut does not get stuck on their feet, then i am *guessing* its good.
You mean your friend keeps them inside a cage for breeding and does not let them come out at all during breeding/rearing? What may be happening also is that you clean their cage too often because its lined with paper. My cages had a wire bottom. If you can, put down cat litter inside the cage, on top of the papers and let them be as long as you can. You can even remove the dowel perch or move it up. Try to put their water in a sipping style drinker that you can attach from outside. My point is to give them maximum privacy since they may still be shy of being around you. I strugled and strugled and could not breed canaries in my home. But with my advice, they bred fine at someone's house. I love watching every thing they(pigeons) do also. 
I wonder what the babies'll look like: color wise.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

hamlet said:


> Hello. I read that straw houses bacteria. We use twigs, feathers, or long dry pine needles. If the coconut does not get stuck on their feet, then i am *guessing* its good.


yeah I read that too but if you think about it, pretty much anything in the cage can house bacteria...I change the papers pretty much once daily and they keep their nest clean of poop. 

I bought some timothy hay today at petsmart...gave them a small clump of it, if it's not in their nest by tomorrow - it'll get thrown out with the spoiled paper. If it is in the nest, I'll give them more (I really hope the hen adds the hay to the nest)...

Will update tomorrow with a new picture.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Snow White took the hay, so I added more to the front of the nest...

heres a pic as promised:


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. Nice, thank you.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

still no eggs...I don't know whats taking so long...lol.

I have a feeling its because I am always checking on them...so I came up with a solution.

I made a full cover for the nest box (to keep the warmth in) and covered up 90% of the cage with cardboard (this way they are not bothered by people walking in and out of the room). 

I'll report any updates as I have them. Hopefully I get some eggs soon!


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## skip (Jun 11, 2014)

Out of 6 borrowed pairs last year I had a couple of hens in two pairs which laid irregularly through Feb and March and still laid slower than the rest when the season changed. One of those hens was was six years old. Her first eggs were infertile, and in the third round she later laid only one egg, so thought her age might have been relevant. The rest laid their first round at different times and reared fewer youngsters than might have been expected. In the same way I think the main things may be unfamiliar surroundings and the season.

If they are sitting well day and night you could try treating them as 'broody', and might be able to start them off in the cycle if you can get a couple of freshly laid eggs to see if they will hatch and rear them. Otherwise perhaps give them clay eggs and take them away after two or three weeks, which might just help the hen to start laying.

From p.63 to p.65 of the excellent book by J W Quinn, http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/rhuntley/quinn.pdf , the hen is probably 'ash-red' 'homozygous' for the grizzle factor, so all the offspring from that pair will be heterozygous grizzles rather than white, but some of the next generation could be white.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would put the shelf back over the nest. The male is really much happier with a separate perch for roosting. You can't force them to be together or lay eggs. When they are ready, they will. Takes a while to adjust to a new place.
Also, should be given a calcium supplement with vitamin D3 a couple of times a week. Without vitamin D3, they cannot utilize any calcium they do get. The rays of the sun also give vitamin D3, but those rays don't pass through glass or screen enough to do the job. So since they do not get outside, they should get the supplement. CalciBoost is good.
And there is no set number of times they might mate before laying the eggs. Like I said, when the hen feels safe and comfortable in a new place, she will lay. Be patient.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> I would put the shelf back over the nest. The male is really much happier with a separate perch for roosting. You can't force them to be together or lay eggs. When they are ready, they will. Takes a while to adjust to a new place.
> Also, should be given a calcium supplement with vitamin D3 a couple of times a week. Without vitamin D3, they cannot utilize any calcium they do get. The rays of the sun also give vitamin D3, but those rays don't pass through glass or screen enough to do the job. So since they do not get outside, they should get the supplement. CalciBoost is good.
> And there is no set number of times they might mate before laying the eggs. Like I said, when the hen feels safe and comfortable in a new place, she will lay. Be patient.


thanks for the advice! I will give them back the shelf then, I will also have to look for the supplements, hopefully I can get them at my local pet store...


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## 95SPORTSTER (Jun 30, 2011)

First off welcome to the wonderful world of pigeons, if they are young bird's it may take some time for them to mature. Also might take time for them to adapt to the new home. I'm sure once they start to lay they will be good. Just make sure you have room for the young.


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## tim85851 (Dec 19, 2015)

95SPORTSTER said:


> First off welcome to the wonderful world of pigeons, if they are young bird's it may take some time for them to mature. Also might take time for them to adapt to the new home. I'm sure once they start to lay they will be good. Just make sure you have room for the young.


thank you!
Snow White is a 2014 bird and Midnight is a 2013 bird.

Still no eggs...


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