# Any Thoughts/Comments About This Baby?



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/have-to-see-cute-baby-pigeons-30779.html

Terry


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

The baby is obviously really good looking. Nice colours. How well do his parents fly?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I want to see a picture once the baby is fully grown and has its adult plumage, cute baby though.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Interesting baby*

Whether indigo or ash red or just exactly what, I'm not sure. The black feet probably mean dirty factor which can make it alittle darker. I'm leaning toward indigo with either recessive red or bronze or both behind it. I'd like very much to see a pic when it gets older.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I looked through her other pics*

I was looking for a reason for this bird to show up. One of the pics shows a young pigeon being held up that may be an indigo grizzle. Is this one by chance one of the parents of the little one?

Bill


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Kind of arcangel bronze And black. What breed are we looking at.


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

Mosaic? But gee, mosaics are usually blue based with ash red....


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*The second picture of the older birds is an ANDALUSIAN which is a indigo that has the spread factor while this bird shows no indigo he can produce young that show indigo..This andalusian is one of the parents.I guess we will have to wait until it molts before we can say what the baby is as far color. *GEORGE


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

*From a Genetics Guy*

I forwarded the pictures to a friend of mine and asked him what color....Here is his reply:

Hi John,
The bird is probably some form of bronze blue with possibly grizzle. More will be known after the moult.
Best to you,
Leon


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*It isn't mosaic*

Mosaics have a more random pattern and this bird is pretty symmetrical. We've had discussions about mosaics here before and I think that there may be more than one type of them. I believe that some can be created but nobody has cracked the genetic code yet. I hope to work on it. Then there are others that are so extreme such as silky on one side and normal on the other or blue on one side and ash red on the other. These defy anything that is logical except to go with the old belief that they are true freaks and were probably created by two sperms fertilizing one egg.

Yes, this young bird certainly appears to have some type of bronze but indigoes appear bronze as well and for some reason are not listed as one of the 8 recognized bronzes. I think they should be number 9.

Bill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

jbangelfish said:


> Mosaics have a more random pattern and this bird is pretty symmetrical. We've had discussions about mosaics here before and I think that there may be more than one type of them. I believe that some can be created but nobody has cracked the genetic code yet. I hope to work on it. Then there are others that are so extreme such as silky on one side and normal on the other or blue on one side and ash red on the other. These defy anything that is logical except to go with the old belief that they are true freaks and were probably created by two sperms fertilizing one egg.
> 
> Yes, this young bird certainly appears to have some type of bronze but indigoes appear bronze as well and for some reason are not listed as one of the 8 recognized bronzes. I think they should be number 9.
> 
> Bill


 Hi BILL,What I see here is a bird that will molt out and may turn out to be a Andalusion in what I like to call the dark phase ANDALUSION.I base that on the picture of an ANDALUSION that some believe is a grizzle that was shown as a possable parent of the youngster that is the bird in question here.I also do not believe that INDIGO is another form of bronze.I believe that is more in the redish /brown.I plan on breeding some of my indigos to browns in the project indigo/recessive red.But more on this later. ...GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi George*

I certainly don't have enough experience with indigo and andalusion to say how they look as babies or even as adults. I know how some of them look but many factors can influence how they appear. My first indigo baby is also reduced and of course, is very light colored. It also looks very pinkish or in my mind, bronzey. I will also have a few others but they are all too small yet to say what they look like. I hope to get a few useful birds out of this last round before winter.

My understanding of the indigo gene is that in heterozygous birds, they tend to be very bronzy (mine certainly are), unless you add spread factor which turns them to andalusions. The desired look of andalusion is devoid of the bronze but it doesn't always work out that way. To me, it looks very bronzy and closer to the bronzes that I have than anything else. It's also not difficult to understand why Homer people call them chocolate as it is a deep chocolate color. If you look at all of the other bronze colorations in pigeons, to me it isn't that much of a stretch to say that indigo or even ember could join the group of bronzes. Maybe it's just me.

Bill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi BILL, I guess its all in the eye of the beholder in any event I will see if I can learn anything from the indigo/recessive red project that I will be starting after the PAGEANT OF PIGEONS.* GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I certainly can't argue that*

I have two small babies from a het indigo (t pattern) YC and a recessive yellow dominant opal hen. One appears very dark and the other much lighter. I don't know what they'll be but it'll be interesting and should be comparable to some that are in your experiment. As soon as they are old enough, I'll post some pics.

Another pair is a reduced YC (black?) and a het indigo t pattern hen. These two babies are both very dark and likely both YC's. If so, of course they will be split for reduced.

I have read that ash red and brown with indigo is nothing special but if other factors were involved such as opal, reduced or dilute, the results could be more favorable. I plan to play with all of this stuff. Neat genes.

Bill


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