# loft bedding



## aarongreen123

Hey guys, thinking about the health and comfort of my birds, i'm looking for suggestions as to a good substrate for the loft floor. there is a plywood floor, but i would like to put some sort of bedding/litter over the floor. i've heard everything from straw, sand, wood pellets, corn cob ect... i would just like to hear everyone's opinion on this. cost isn't neccessarily an issue but i would like to be sensible about it. this is a homing pigeon loft if that makes a difference.
thanks,
aaron


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## re lee

Being it is a homing pigeon loft. You will find the birds would scatter a light floor material to the corners and such because they fly flapping wings will move floor covering. Now sand it is heavery. BUT holds moisture. It is better to just scrape your floors daily or 2 to 3 times a week.


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## abisai

Yup . . . Ats what I do, scrape it clean. Plus you can see your birds poop - an indicator of their health. Don't like the idea of breathing in teeny bits of sand rock either. But many folks use different materials and are quite happy.


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## Charis

Continue to scrape the floor. I scrape mind every day but it is cement and that makes it easier.
Very important!!!! Don't forget to wear a mask when you scrape.


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## luckyloft

I have used lets see, Sand,Pine Needels,Wood Chips,Straw, and when I first had birds Cat Litter.I think I was just trying to save myself time and work. They all have some good and bad uses except maybe the cat litter!Now I only use a little Natural White on the floor (all Wood) Scrape the floor every day when I can.Never let it more then 2 days without scraping and sweeping. That seems to work for me, but I think its up to you to find out what works for you.Different climates I am sure have a effect on what to use.I used to not like to scrape but now I like to spend the time with the birds. I find I pay more attention to them when scraping.


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## Lovebirds

re lee said:


> Being it is a homing pigeon loft. You will find the birds would scatter a light floor material to the corners and such because they fly flapping wings will move floor covering. Now sand it is heavery. BUT holds moisture. It is better to just scrape your floors daily or 2 to 3 times a week.


Yep........they scatter anything you put on the floor. All you do is give them something to "play" in.........just scrape the floor.......


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## aarongreen123

*option*

thanks for the replies thus far, everything makes sense.
what do you guys think of this?
http://www.redroselofts.com/wood_pellets.htm
what would the pro's and con's be using these?


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## KO Loft

*re purpose*

I would like to offer my two cents but I have a question. Are you looking for a way to help keep loft clean or are you talking something to make the floor softer for the birds. If to keep clean just scraping is the ultimate in care, but if to keep floor softer that would be a different answer. One guy who used to put straw in their loft said that sand is a bad choice because of the dust. A subsequent report on 20/20 indicated that man made sand can be hazardous to people, and probably birds, because of the manufacturing process. He was a farmer who raced and said he believed the straw on the cement slab cushioned the floor for the birds. Crazy guy but couldnt doubt his wins lol.

joe


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## Becca199212

We put sawdust down with hay or straw ontop it's really easy to clean out you just shovel it up but they move this to the corners aswell, we have to use the power hose on the centre bit of the floor since it gets dirty quite quickly.


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## warriec

I use sand as everybody knows.I lightly sprinkle it so that there is a layer of sand between the fallen poop and the floor so it is easier to scrape, I actually sweep al the pop away. I wil post a picture of a broom I use in a different post. If you can find one, by all means buy it. Very helpful.


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## TheSnipes

Just my $0.02, I use the pelleted wood shavings. My sister uses it in her horse stalls, I just tried it out of curiosity. The floor of my loft is dirt, though, not wood, and there was always a lot of very fine dirt dust in the air, and I felt this was very bad for the birds not to mention it contributed to the loft just being very dirty and made cleaning harder for me. Since I put in a couple bags of the pellets, it's kept the dirt down and does not make dust. I'm very happy with it except that I have yet to find the fine-toothed raking tool I think must exist, somewhere, that would make getting the accumulated feathers out of the corners and raking up the poops that get on the floors easier to collect and dispose of. Most of their droppings go onto the ledges, perhces, and shelves which I scrape and brush into a bin.


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## Maggie-NC

TheSnipes said:


> Just my $0.02, I use the pelleted wood shavings. My sister uses it in her horse stalls, I just tried it out of curiosity. The floor of my loft is dirt, though, not wood, and there was always a lot of very fine dirt dust in the air, and I felt this was very bad for the birds not to mention it contributed to the loft just being very dirty and made cleaning harder for me. Since I put in a couple bags of the pellets, it's kept the dirt down and does not make dust. I'm very happy with it except that I have yet to find the fine-toothed raking tool I think must exist, somewhere, that would make getting the accumulated feathers out of the corners and raking up the poops that get on the floors easier to collect and dispose of. Most of their droppings go onto the ledges, perhces, and shelves which I scrape and brush into a bin.



I would like to offer a caution about dirt floors.

When we first started rehabbing pigeons about 14 years ago, the only housing we were told about, or saw, were open, dirt floored aviaries. For several years, we took our pigeons to another rehabber's home to get their flight time and become wild in one of her aviaries before being released. Then, they gave us a small aviary which worked fine until we started keeping some of the non releasables and needed a larger place for them. Again, we built it open, with a dirt floor. We have since built a second aviary that is just like the other one.

This worked fine for several years until we started having problems with both coccidiosis and worm infestation. Not so much problems with coccidiosis unless we have a very wet season but the worm problem continued to persist until our vet told us she thought we had a worm colony established in the aviaries. We had one pigeon (******, who is my avatar) get sick last November with an acute case of worms to the point we almost lost her. She stayed in our house until May and it was touch and go for her for about 3-4 months. 

Our vet contacted another vet in Oklahoma (also raises pigeons) who said there is really nothing wrong with a dirt floor but advised us to take precautions. He said we needed to dig up at least 2" of earth and replace it with sand each time we cleaned the cages. This would remove the worms and casings each time.

We have not done this as yet because we want to completely revamp the flooring but can't do it until cool weather gets here and we can release some of the pigeons. That will enable us to move all the pigeons into one aviary and use that while we work on the other.

What we have done is go to Home Depot and purchase a material that is used in gardens to place on soil that helps keep weeds from growing. We are using this as a barrier. We staple it to the side of the aviaries and then put bark/shavings on top of that. We still continue to remove the bark about every 3 weeks and replace with fresh.

I am hoping that we can put a plywood floor in this fall and eliminate this constant worry about worms. Anyhow, I just wanted to share this with you and ask you to be particularly watchful for worms.


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## TheSnipes

Lady Tarheel said:


> I would like to offer a caution about dirt floors.
> 
> [SNIP...]
> 
> Anyhow, I just wanted to share this with you and ask you to be particularly watchful for worms.


That is good info, thanks for sharing. The spot mine is in was raised to make the loft/aviary, and i planted some annual grass in the outdoor area for them. (The birds did mine the seeds but lots of the grass took  ) it was inside the loft proper that the dust was a problem and motivated adding some bedding. I think replacing the bedding (at least) at regular intervals sounds like a reasonable preventative approach. It is several inches thick so taking it out might remove any unwanted invaders.

I can't go with any kind of floor where my loft is, as that implies "permanent" structure, I guess, and I can't do that in the space that I have available (zoning ordinances).


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## KO Loft

*loft owner and attorney lol*

Again my 2 cents but you should also be careful with what is required by local ordinances. A dirt floor here in Michigan is usually not allowed because of the rodents it attracts. Food on ground leads to mice and rat infestations, no matter how clean you think you got it. Also your pigeons will become prey in their own coop. A loft could be required to be torn down because it does not meet local ordinances. Convenience is great, but make sure you do not violate local laws. And for those of you who think you have a cement floor are safe lol, well just say attorney client privilege will prevent me from saying anymore lol. Follow local ordinances!!!!!!!!!!


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## TAWhatley

TheSnipes said:


> I can't go with any kind of floor where my loft is, as that implies "permanent" structure, I guess, and I can't do that in the space that I have available (zoning ordinances).


How about using concrete pavers as the flooring? I have a duck enclosure that uses them, and it works well for me. The ducks do require rubber mats to make it easier on their feet, but that wouldn't be necessary for pigeons as they don't spend all their time on the floor. Though it is a bit of work to "dig" them up when the time comes, it certainly wouldn't be considered a permanent structure.

Terry


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## maryjane

I have used a variety of things and at the moment for the tent, sawdust is working great. I would never use it for small animals as it can (and does, as far as I've seen!) cause severe respiratory problems in enclosed areas. With the very wide-open tent, I first pour the sawdust into a kiddie pool in the far corner of the backyard and "sift" a lot of the dust out before using it with the birds. I change it every few days, just scrape up and relay. 

I'm glad I caught this thread since today I set up the new wire aviary, and it just has a wire bottom on dirt in the yard. I did put a thick layer of sawdust down but the weed barrier sounds like a big help. Would it be a good idea to put a piece of plywood down? Concrete isn't ideal for the spot. Maybe even a couple pieces of linoleum that I could rotate would work.  Looks like I'll be experimenting lol. I do have a lot of silly birds that prefer "roosting" on the floor (of course, the wire in the new aviary is the smallest size), which is why I like to use padding such as sawdust so they're comfy.


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## eric98223

ok here is my 2 cents again all the local flyers here are using panels made from expanded metal (diamond mesh) that they can lift up and scoop with a flat blade shovel when it is time to clean. i am currently designing a new loft and that is what i will use as it lets the poop drop through and is relitivly easy to clean up. and i am talking racers with 100's of birds..

eric.....


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## barlbylofts

ive raced pigeons all my life so 45 years now and the best bedding i ever come aross is easy bed its heavy and the birds dont scatter it all over the place i put lots of it down and its a lot less work then all the other stuff i have tried.

mark


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## Maggie-NC

maryjane said:


> I have used a variety of things and at the moment for the tent, sawdust is working great. I would never use it for small animals as it can (and does, as far as I've seen!) cause severe respiratory problems in enclosed areas. With the very wide-open tent, I first pour the sawdust into a kiddie pool in the far corner of the backyard and "sift" a lot of the dust out before using it with the birds. I change it every few days, just scrape up and relay.
> 
> I'm glad I caught this thread since today I set up the new wire aviary, and it just has a wire bottom on dirt in the yard. I did put a thick layer of sawdust down but the weed barrier sounds like a big help. Would it be a good idea to put a piece of plywood down? Concrete isn't ideal for the spot. Maybe even a couple pieces of linoleum that I could rotate would work.  Looks like I'll be experimenting lol. I do have a lot of silly birds that prefer "roosting" on the floor (of course, the wire in the new aviary is the smallest size), which is why I like to use padding such as sawdust so they're comfy.


Hi Maryjane

The wire on the bottom of your aviary should help a lot as a barrier because the birds won't be directly on the ground as ours are. You might try the weed barrier on top of the wire which would make it easier to clean up the sawdust. I don't know about the linoleum but seems like that may be too slick? We have several that like to stay on the floor so that's why we use the chips.


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## Maggie-NC

TAWhatley said:


> How about using concrete pavers as the flooring? I have a duck enclosure that uses them, and it works well for me. The ducks do require rubber mats to make it easier on their feet, but that wouldn't be necessary for pigeons as they don't spend all their time on the floor. Though it is a bit of work to "dig" them up when the time comes, it certainly wouldn't be considered a permanent structure.
> 
> Terry


Terry, thank you for the tip. We are also considering using the pavers and that may be the best way to go.


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## TheSnipes

barlbylofts said:


> ive raced pigeons all my life so 45 years now and the best bedding i ever come aross is easy bed its heavy and the birds dont scatter it all over the place i put lots of it down and its a lot less work then all the other stuff i have tried.
> 
> mark



"Easy Bed" is that the brand name?

I think the weed barrier sounds like a real good idea on dirt floors, and I wish I'd thought of it. I can still put some in of course when I change the bedding. Pavers might be a good way to go too.


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## sufiness

before I used to use this bedding they use for horses it was extremely good - straw based kept the loft extremely dry for months. I actually need to source it again somehow.

Used to buy from Roy W in Bradford uk


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## Feathered Dragons

*The way I do it at Feathered Dragons Loft*

Well they say differant stokes for differant folks but I like to keep things simple. I enjoy spending time with my birds and it gives me a reason to get out of my house. It also keeps my birds calm by seeing me longer than just stepping in to feed them. I have a wood floor that I scape every other day and every day on the weekend. My loft is also heated so the droppings are almost always dry when I scrape. I know I may have opened a whole other can of worms by saying my loft is heated but I have no sick birds and they dont mind the 60 deg temp. The reason I know they like the warmth is because after their weekly bath they come right back in the loft and dry off and settle right in for an afternoon nap. This is just the way I do things and it may have its pros and cons but if my birds ain't happy I ain't happy.


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## raftree3

What about when you put your babies on the floor in the cold. I've got plenty of straw, was thinking about adding a little poultry dust just to do away with any bugs in the straw. If they push it to the corner all the better, I'm just trying to make it a little better till they get to the perch.


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## Feathered Dragons

raftree3 said:


> What about when you put your babies on the floor in the cold. I've got plenty of straw, was thinking about adding a little poultry dust just to do away with any bugs in the straw. If they push it to the corner all the better, I'm just trying to make it a little better till they get to the perch.


Like I said before my loft has heat so my floor is only 5 deg. cooler than up near the roof. Also I have perches about 5 inches off the floor that get them jumping to perch pretty fast. I know that doesnt help you in your case but my mentor doesnt use bedding and he doesn't have heat and his birds are just fine. He has always told me that I wont have problem as long as I keep a clean dry loft. The heat was more for me but the birds seem to love it as to the outside temp of 25 degs.


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## hankabus

*wood pellets*



aarongreen123 said:


> thanks for the replies thus far, everything makes sense.
> what do you guys think of this?
> http://www.redroselofts.com/wood_pellets.htm
> what would the pro's and con's be using these?


I have been using the wood pellets for over a year now and will never change back to scraping. The pellets I use are actually compressed pellets that are made for animal bedding and stable bedding. The lofts smell like fresh cut wood (which I happen to love anyway) they absord moisture to keep the birds nice and dry, the birds are always clean. The poop piles under perches clump up like kitty litter and is very easy to clean up. Every once in a while I take a rake in and mix and stir it up. The pellets also absorb ammonia so if the floors are not kept clean there will be no stink. Every couple of months I rake out most of the pellets and just replace with new. It doesnt have to be replaced that often, thats just what I do. It makes for very easy loft maintenance. 

Hank


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## vivagirl

An now for my nickels worth. I have tried everything over the years. Concrete-dirt- sand on wood- cedar shavings, corn cob and so on. I have one thing works best for me and that’s wire. The droppings fall through to the ground. The worms and grubs (once they get established) eat 80% of the poop. We rake it out twice a year. You would be amazed how little poop is left. Three of my 8’ by 12’ lofts have ½ “by 1” for the floor. It works but I recommend 1” by 1”. All of my kit boxes and mini lofts have 1” by 1“wire. You will have no build up what so ever with the 1” wire.. With smaller wire you will. Wire eliminates 90% of the worms and takes a heavy toll on Cocci. & paratyphoid . It’s an absolute must for young birds. One advantage that I have is that my climate is mild compared to most. One word of caution you must raise your wire bottom lofts at least 2 flat concrete blocks off the ground. And you must underpin them with wire all the way around. If you don’t Opossums and your neighbors cat will pull the legs off of you birds. I know this from experience. In fact about everything I know is from experience. In fact allow me to give my spin on philosophy. Do you know the difference between ignorants & stupidity? Are you ready!! Ignorance is temporary but stupidity is permanent. 
I also have four more lofts with plywood floors. A fine gentleman I know by his nickname “Dr. Pigeons” told me some years back to use “Oil Dry” that’s 100% clay.
It runs about $8 for 50 pounds. It’s the same thing as kitty litter but it’s cheaper. In addition he also told me to buy some “Sodium Bisulfate” and sprinkle it on your litter. This is available where swimming pools supplies are sold. It looks like big grand’s of Salt. It acetifies your litter to prevent paratyphoid & cocci.. Rake your loft and remove the clumps and occasionally ad more litter. I do a complete clean up about every 3 months. Nothing will dry droppings faster than powdered droppings. DRY is the most important WORD. At another time I will explain what’s the thought behind the “deep litter” theory.


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## sport14692

What I'm getting out of this is that it is totally up to the individual to determine how much work or money you want to spend on flooring and bedding. Learning from my past experience raising pigeons,I'm going with all wood flooring on the loft currently being built and will scrap it daily and will also have wood flooring on the outside aviary. I live in South Louisiana where we have big time humidity so the wire flooring is out the question because the poop falls thru and stays moist attracting flies and disease. pellets and shavings get blown into corners, drinkers and feeders causing problems. Thats why I'm going all wood
Have a great day


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