# Why do some call it a cere and others a wattle?



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I've noticed over time that the fleshy part above the beak is referred to as both cere and wattle by different members. I've searched it in the forums and come
up with this lively exchange:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17&highlight=cere

I've also read here by a member that wattle is used in respect to the same area on pigeons if they are show birds but not in ferals. I'm curious what folks here think about this and if they would also offer what they base their choice of term on.

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

To me a wattle is the skin that hangs down from a turkey.

Maggie


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> To me a wattle is the skin that hangs down from a turkey.
> 
> Maggie



Yes, me too!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The cere is the white around the eyes. The wattle is the flaky, chalky white that is above the nostrils on the beak. 

This is what I was taught by the old timer racers.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't know if anyone tried reading the lively exchange, but the link didn't work.
It's fixed now so if you want to check the link out, it is in our PT tradition I'm sure you'll find. Bring your weiner skewer.

Anyway, I mostly call it a cere 'cause of the argument advanced by Ray of raynjudy. I do think of a Turkey as having a wattle, but hell I don't know what the standard is. 

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi FP, 

I always called it a cere because this is what it's called in all my pigeon books. 

This is also the definition from the dictionary:

_A fleshy or waxlike membrane at the base of the upper beak in certain birds, such as parrots, through which the nostrils open.

_


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*I, too,*

have been confused but also use the term cere. Except I was pronouncing the word "seer" instead of 'sir.' 

I have also seen the term wattle used, but, again, I think of turkeys...

OK, if cere is above the beak, then what IS the area around the eye??? Wattle??

BTW, ducks waddle... (see Oneeyepigeon in the link)


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Here's a link to a pigeon dictionary:
http://www.fbipigeons.com/pigeon_dictionary.htm

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

The bulbous area on the upper Beak, I used to call 'Beak-nubs' because I had no idea what it was called otherwise...Lol...

But 'Wattle' for above the nostril area, and 'Cere' for around the eyes, seem like good terms to me...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

Thats the wattle the cere is not on the beak


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Shi, I've always pronounced it "seer" also. 

Maggie


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Cere pronounced KURE is the wattle area. cere prounced seer is around the eye area. Wattle and cere KURE. are basicly meant to be the same I guess. Some refure 1 way others a different way.


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> The cere is the white around the eyes. The wattle is the flaky, chalky white that is above the nostrils on the beak.
> 
> This is what I was taught by the old timer racers.


Bingo! You got it!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I still call it a cere 

Here is the definition for wattle from wikipedia and some others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattle
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861711314
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wattle&r=66

So by definition, calling it a wattle would make no sense to me.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

re lee said:


> Cere pronounced KURE is the wattle area. cere prounced seer is around the eye area. Wattle and cere KURE. are basicly meant to be the same I guess. Some refure 1 way others a different way.


Hi Robert, 

I'm trying to get the phonetics "down" here, is the pronunciation you refer to as KURE like the last syllable of Canker? Or maybe like moor except w/K?

Hi all,

Living out here in California w/the tarot card readers and the like, I've always pronounced it kinda like Maggie and Shi do, don't know what their excuse 
is .

I notice in the link that Cindy provided, from BS, Texas, that they refer to it as wattle.

They had some other good definitions there as well:

"Average - About the same as."

"X-Ray Glasses - Don't really work."

"Unitarian - A free lance Christian that can't make up their mind which God to believe in."

But I think judging from some of the definitions that they were just playing around on these, after all, they are from "BS" Texas  .

So I googled Pigeon+cere and found quite a variation of use between cere and wattle. I couldn't help but wonder if there was a regional variation in terms of what choice was made to use which term. And if that
were true, I'm sure the pronunciation would vary as well, just try calling Beauford, S.C. information and pronounce Beauford w/the first syllable in more of a French pronunciation  . I made that mistake  _once_.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*How VERY odd!*

I don't think I've seen such confusion on the name of something! Does "a rose by any other name..." still apply here?  

I guess the bottom line is: "I say tomato, you say tomato" 

Don't think there will EVER be a concensus on this one! 

However, if I ever have to refer to Mr. Squeaks' cere/kure/sir/seer, I will define the place on his anatomy...


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## mgjoseph (Jun 9, 2014)

Skyeking said:


> The cere is the white around the eyes. The wattle is the flaky, chalky white that is above the nostrils on the beak.
> 
> This is what I was taught by the old timer racers.


Yes, This is what I also follow. Cere is around the eyes of the pigeon. Wattle is on the upper beak. Most of the Indian fancieres follow this terminology. I am mgjoseph from Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India.


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## mgjoseph (Jun 9, 2014)

Cere and Wattle. Posted on 23 August 2021.
mgjoseph


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