# Help! Found young pigeon. What next?



## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Hi,

This evening our cat came sauntering up to us with a young pigeon in his mouth. He has feathers with some dawn poking through. He had a small puncture in his wing but no blood and the wing doesn't look broken. Though he seems quite a bit awkward when he moves. We found this forum and immediately got him set up with a box with a heating pad on low under a towel in a quiet room that the cats can't get into.

It's been about 2 hours now, and we plan on trying him on some water with salt and sugar in a bit. So I guess my question is what else can we do for him?

Oh and he's tentatively been named Humphrey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have any neosporin that you can put on the wound? Cats carry a bacteria that can be fatal to small animals and make others very sick.
Where are you located in the event we have a member near by that can talk you through the next step?


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

We should have something along those lines. We're just north of Boston.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

MY favorite city. I want you to email me your phone number and we have some members in the area that can call you.
[email protected]


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

What a cutie. Thanks for taking care of this baby pigeon. We have some members in your area that can undoubtedly help.  You did the right thing by putting him on heat, hopefully you can meet up with someone who can take him tomorrow.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I am in Chelsea, 2 min north of Boston, is the bird eating? Email Charis or me with your phone number, my email is [email protected] email your number and I'll call you. Charis, got your message but I know it's 5 am there so I don't want to call, thanks for calling though. Charis, what kind of meds are needed for a cat bite?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> I am in Chelsea, 2 min north of Boston, is the bird eating? Email Charis or me with your phone number, my email is [email protected] email your number and I'll call you. Charis, got your message but I know it's 5 am there so I don't want to call, thanks for calling though. Charis, what kind of meds are needed for a cat bite?



Clavamox will do.

Reti


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sadly, I never heard from them.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, i do not have clavamox, i have:

ciloxin .3% eye drop 2.5 ml
Spartix 10 mg
metacam 2ml
neem oil
colloidal silver
liquid calcium
albon .10ml
azithromycin 250mg
nyastatin .8 BID/14 days
Arnica
Amoxicillan 500 mg tabs
cephalexin 500mg
cipro 500mg
amoxicillan 10% powder
enrofloxyn .2 ml/kg of B.W. for 5-7 days
ivermectin (wormer)
divet
appertex 2.5 mg
Augmentin (amoxicillan + clavulanic acid) 875/125 mg
Anroxil 7.5 mg (generic baytril)
cephalexin 50 mg
flagyl 500mg and 250 mg


I know many of these dont apply to this bird, but easier to copy and paste.
I need help with the dosing too, i know you all know that, but a nice reminder!  
Let me know, i'm gonna pick up the bird soon, he has two cats and a toddler, so he would rather let someone else do this then himself, so i'm bringing it home. Want to start meds ASAP so i need some help with the meds....
Thanks!


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Augmentin (amoxicillan + clavulanic acid) 875/125 mg


That is exactly the same thing as clavamox.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

oh, ok, do you know the dosing Snipes? I will weigh him when i get home, but am i right about getting him on meds ASAP considering the cat bite? It might already be too late, correct?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Well what I've read (here) is that cat bites are very dangerous, or can be. I'd go ahead and medicate him and give him teh benefit of the doubt.

I have a dosing chart but it is at home, sorry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, i need help with dosing, i have him, will weigh him in 2 seconds. I decided to try and feed him, not tube feed, with a baby bottle, nipple cut off end. Once he figured out it was food, he flipped, started squeaking and sticking his beak in the hole in nipple. His crop feels fuller now. I have a few questions, as i have always tube fed, never this way. I wanted to get him used to this way, since he is so young. He is much smaller then i thought too, smaller then the pic makes him out to be, i have never had a bird this young.
Ok, he stuck his whole beak in the nipple hole, then started to swallow, but acted like i was supposed to force it in, like a mom regurgitating, does that make sense? His WHOLE beak went in, and it makes me very nervous with his nostrils in all the way like he could inhale the food. Can he inhale it like that or are the nostrils not open yet, or what?
I'll weigh him... hold on


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

he is about 160 grams, and 1000 times cuter!!!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, since the dosing on ammoxicillan is like 5mg for a bird, and my pills are either 500 or 875 mg, i would have had to chop it up SO SOOO little, i gave the smallest DROP possible of Baytril to start. I havent found a puncture wound, and actually, I think he may have FALLEn out of nest and been found by the cat. He's got some CUTE cats too! The man who found it thinks the bird fell out of a nest too, the cats are not that athletic, and they do not venture far, so he thinks the cats found the bird and brought it home.
There still might be puncture wounds, i have to go to work, will come home later to check on him, i'd bring him with but today is my day at a cat shelter, and i think Humphrey has had enough cats for a LIFETIME! LOL!
He got a bit of food, some meds, and is now napping happily. Hopefully he'll pull through the nest few hours. One leg looked a bit swollen on the joint, and he is limping sort of, as the man who found him said, he moved awkwardly, and he does.
Thanks to our rescuer for finding him, that was so sweet to help Humphrey!


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Our pleasure  We're pulling for him to make it. he's the sweetest little thing, and really is a trooper. Thank you for caring for him for us. It just seemed that 2 cats and a 2 year old would be way to much stress for the little guy.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Ok, since the dosing on ammoxicillan is like 5mg for a bird, and my pills are either 500 or 875 mg, i would have had to chop it up SO SOOO little, i gave the smallest DROP possible of Baytril to start. I havent found a puncture wound, and actually, I think he may have FALLEn out of nest and been found by the cat. He's got some CUTE cats too! The man who found it thinks the bird fell out of a nest too, the cats are not that athletic, and they do not venture far, so he thinks the cats found the bird and brought it home.
> There still might be puncture wounds, i have to go to work, will come home later to check on him, i'd bring him with but today is my day at a cat shelter, and i think Humphrey has had enough cats for a LIFETIME! LOL!
> He got a bit of food, some meds, and is now napping happily. Hopefully he'll pull through the nest few hours. One leg looked a bit swollen on the joint, and he is limping sort of, as the man who found him said, he moved awkwardly, and he does.
> Thanks to our rescuer for finding him, that was so sweet to help Humphrey!


I think you should call the baby, Humphrey.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> I think you should call the baby, Humphrey.


I thought that was his name?  

Good he's getting settled. Hope he didn't get cat bit after all.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think that may be the finder's name.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> I think that may be the finder's name.


OK but then why does the first post say...
_"Oh and he's tentatively been named Humphrey"_


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, the crop hasnt emptied from when i fed him a tiny bit before, should i give a bit of Nyastatin? Not feed again until empty crop, correct?
I do think it isnt the wing, but the leg, he is limping, his right leg joint is swollen, and he is limping, as the Rescuer said, the awkward movement, i noticed it as soon as i picked up Humphrey, i turned him over and noticed the joint. It isnt hugely swollen, get pics up soon.
I wanted to ask, i want to check for puncture wounds, but i think the easiest way would be to wet his feathers, i dont want to get him all wet JUST yet, he's had a heck of a day, when could i do that? I've checked every way except getting him wet, and i know how easy it is to miss things on them.
Ok, gotta go get another syringe, be back soon. He is just the CUTEST thing!
Oh, for the record, Humphrey is the baby birds name, the owner has a different name but didnt want to post his name without asking, so i've been calling him Humphrey's rescuer, I'll just call the finder Bob from now on, unless he doesnt care if i post his name?
I like the name Humphrey, and am so glad theyu named it, i am horrible at giving names! 
Bob, i think your cat might of wanted YOU to cook Humphrey for dinner, he might not of liked the whole raw food trend going on!LOL! Lets hope thats true and i dont find a puncture wound, in the meantime, i dont think the antibiotics will hurt...


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Given the ?? circumstances a prophylactic round of antibiotics is probably wise


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Propholactic?? Whats that mean Snipes?
Anyhow, funny story, went to the pharmacy to see if i could get some more syringes, they thought it was for drugs, and wouldnt give it to me! I then said i needed it WITHOUT the tip, and said what for, and the guy was like, "OH!! Of course, here's a few!!" And just gave them to me, how nice!
On the way home, i heard some squeaking suspiciously EXACTLY like Humphies squeaks, so went to have a look, i found a pigeon nest 8 feet up in a tree, i could see the babies PERFECT! SAME age as humphry, maybe a few days older, and got to witness mom dump some pigeon milk down their throats, but man, i heard those squeaks across a VERY LOUD and busy, very busy, street.
So cute! I got some pics on my phone, but they werent that good.
What about the crop not emptying?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

You are tuned to pigeon frequency. Prophylactic just means, preventative..being on the safe side 

I knwo you're not sposed to feed new food on top of old, so i guess try to make sure he's MT


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

MT, Snipes, i know some stuff about pigeons, but not as much as the pros, AKA you and others, do, so laymens terms please! LOL!
Ok, he's got something hard in the crop that could be preventing it from emptying, it feels suspiciously like half of a peanut, it moves around. Might be going to the vet tomorrow...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have the same problem now with Yodi, the crop not emtpying. Yodi and Hymphrey? are about the same age, here is what my vet suggested. Give 20cc's food a day less and more frecvent. Someone alse adviced to give apple sauce and ot seems to be working. Now I give 5-7 cc's formula, half formula half apple sauce. In between when the crop is still full I give 3-4cc's pedialyte. It seems to be working some, today I had an empty crop for lunch.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, what about the peanut? Or whatever it is???


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Reti said:


> I have the same problem now with Yodi, the crop not emtpying. Yodi and Hymphrey? are about the same age, here is what my vet suggested. Give 20cc's food a day less and more frecvent. Someone alse adviced to give apple sauce and ot seems to be working. Now I give 5-7 cc's formula, half formula half apple sauce. In between when the crop is still full I give 3-4cc's pedialyte. It seems to be working some, today I had an empty crop for lunch.
> 
> Reti


Hmmm... just suggested Moxie do the same thing....sent her off to buy baby applesause.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Yes, Charis did mention the applesauce, thats so funny!
I am going to buy it now!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Ok, i need help with dosing, i have him, will weigh him in 2 seconds. I decided to try and feed him, not tube feed, with a baby bottle, nipple cut off end. Once he figured out it was food, he flipped, started squeaking and sticking his beak in the hole in nipple. His crop feels fuller now. I have a few questions, as i have always tube fed, never this way. I wanted to get him used to this way, since he is so young. He is much smaller then i thought too, smaller then the pic makes him out to be, i have never had a bird this young.
> Ok, he stuck his whole beak in the nipple hole, then started to swallow, but acted like i was supposed to force it in, like a mom regurgitating, does that make sense?* His WHOLE beak went in, and it makes me very nervous with his nostrils in all the way like he could inhale the food. Can he inhale it like that or are the nostrils not open yet, or what?*
> I'll weigh him... hold on



This made me nervous when I first started hand-feeding, too, but I never had a problem with any of the babies breathing in the food. They must stop inhaling when they're gobbling the formula. I had a few who would stick their beak as far as absolutely possible into the hole and come out covered with formula. I just made sure to wipe them off when they were done.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> MT, Snipes, i know some stuff about pigeons, but not as much as the pros, AKA you and others, do, so laymens terms please! LOL!
> Ok, he's got something hard in the crop that could be preventing it from emptying, it feels suspiciously like half of a peanut, it moves around. Might be going to the vet tomorrow...


So sorry Moxie that was my lazy shorthand for "empty"  sounds like he is gobbling food for you, good. I have never had any luck teaching any babies to take formula for me, I always have to tube feed them


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Charis said:


> Hmmm... just suggested Moxie do the same thing....sent her off to buy baby applesause.


what a coincidence 

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What peanut? You mean peanuts? No, they are not easy to digest, if he has a slow crop hold off the peanuts for now.

Reti


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Reti said:


> What peanut? You mean peanuts? No, they are not easy to digest, if he has a slow crop hold off the peanuts for now.
> 
> Reti


No, she thinks he has a peanut in his crop.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=278661&postcount=25


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lovebirds said:


> No, she thinks he has a peanut in his crop.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=278661&postcount=25


Oh, sorry about that, I went through the post too quickly.
Hopefully it will break up. The applesauce is quite acidic so maybe it will do the trick. Is he eating grit?

Reti


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Moxie go ahead and use my name, I don't mind 

Glad to hear he's still going strong, and thank you again for taking care of him.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Oh, Maryjane! THANKS SO MUCH!! I was soooo nervous, so so SOOO nervous by him sticking his whole beak in there, and Charis told me a different way to do it, get a smaller syringe and stick it in the side of his beak and in back of throat, he HATED it, absolutely HATED me and hated it, i'm sure he'd get used to it, but he adjusted to the other way really quick, but i told Charis i was too nervous to do it that way with the nipple, with his WHOLE beak going in there. You really think thats ok MaryJane? I mean, it just FREAKS me out so bad!
I am probably more familiar with the way Charis said, but the bird is more familiar with the nipple type action, closest i can get to him sticking the beak in Mom or Pops mouth.
I'm gonna see how the crop goes tonight, i know i am not supposed to put new food on old, and his crop had emptied SOME, but not all, so i got a bit of medistatin and apple sauce in there just to crank things up again, i will get him on some heat, and get pics up as soon as i go for my run, this day ran very late!!  
I'm so in love with him already! He is a little doll, really, so adorable, i've seen them at 1 day old, and squeakers, but not this age, except for quick peeks at nests here and there, but this is something' else! I wish all the pigeon haters could meet all the Humphries, it would change their mind real quick! If it didnt, then they are not human, for sure!!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, no, no grit, he isnt eating, i am feeding him Reti, and not peanuts! LOL! Nope, he did that all on his own somehow, maybe mom and dad did it? 
Charis was telling me an incredible story of one she had and it had a bunch of big rocks in it's crop, a baby! Now, coulda been mom or dad, or coulda been a very hungry, confused baby.


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Moxie, short of him getting it from his parents, I can't see how he would have gotten a peanut . Because of him gimping around, I can't see him having gone far if indeed he did fall out of the nest. When with us, he basically limped to the coziest spot he could find and huddled for warmth. Granted I still haven't found the nest, so if he fell near a peanut somehow it's possible.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

HumphreysHome said:


> Moxie, short of him getting it from his parents, I can't see how he would have gotten a peanut . Because of him gimping around, I can't see him having gone far if indeed he did fall out of the nest. When with us, he basically limped to the coziest spot he could find and huddled for warmth. Granted I still haven't found the nest, so if he fell near a peanut somehow it's possible.


The parents could have fed it.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Hello Rob, not Bob! See how creative i am with names? lol! i'VE HAD A FEW GOOD MOMENTS WITH NAMING, BUT THEY ARE VERY OVERSHADOWED BY BAD NAMES! Oops, caps lock..
Ok, sorry, no pics yet, will get them today, it was too chatoic yesterday to get pics up, when i found the peanut i panicked a bit, because it could be a peanut shaped rock? Had to rush to the store, go back out, and didnt get back until 11, so pics today, i promise.
Some good news, the applesauce worked, his crop has emptied this morning. He is hungry and squeaking up a storm, fluttering his wings, and he pooped ALOT last night, so he got his fill. I'll keep up with the applesauce, medistatin, and baytril. I'll be back around noon to feed Humphrey again, and update then...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The applesauce seems to have worked for me too.
Thanks Charis, for the advice.

Reti


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Hello Rob, not Bob! See how creative i am with names? lol! i'VE HAD A FEW GOOD MOMENTS WITH NAMING, BUT THEY ARE VERY OVERSHADOWED BY BAD NAMES! Oops, caps lock..
> Ok, sorry, no pics yet, will get them today, it was too chatoic yesterday to get pics up, when i found the peanut i panicked a bit, because it could be a peanut shaped rock? Had to rush to the store, go back out, and didnt get back until 11, so pics today, i promise.
> Some good news, the applesauce worked, his crop has emptied this morning. He is hungry and squeaking up a storm, fluttering his wings, and he pooped ALOT last night, so he got his fill. I'll keep up with the applesauce, medistatin, and baytril. I'll be back around noon to feed Humphrey again, and update then...


It's ok to start feeding regular formula now.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Reti said:


> The applesauce seems to have worked for me too.
> Thanks Charis, for the advice.
> 
> Reti


I am thrilled, Reti.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Well, the peanut or rock is still there. I came home for lunch, way early too, and the crop hasnt emptied. I fed at about 7:30 am, and it is now 10:55 am, shouldnt it be emptied by now? 
At this age, how much food is he supposed to get? And how many feedings a day? 4 times a day, correct? I have been eyeballing it, because i can put 10 cc in the baby bottle, but half gets all over him! So i do it until the crop is semi-full, not all the way full. Should i do it different?
Also, what about worming him? When should i think about that? 
Also, i am wondering if anyone else has encountered this, when he is squeaking, it seems like on the breath in or out, before or after squeak, he has a deeper squeak, the same time duration as the regular squeak, but you know how when they are teenagers and they make that frog croaking sound, kind of sounds like a frog, or a rubber ducky being squeezed? Well, it sounds like that, but very short, the same length of time as regular squeak. It worries me, i am wondering if anyone else has heard this? I tried to have Charis listen through the phone, but you know that never really works, she couldnt hear anything, she had me listen to his back for any "rattling" or clicking noises, for pnemonia, and i could only hear the heartbeat. I guess we'll see? I am just wondering if anyone has heard those noises from their squabs, if it is normal or not, etc etc. Any ideas there?
Sorry so many questions, but him being so young, and me never having had one so young, want to be sure. I wonder if that vet will see birds this young? I'm gonna call and ask, let me get the pics first...
Charis, Reti, you sure about stopping the applesauce? The peanut is still there, and he isnt processing food as fast as he should, am i correct? It seems like his crop should have emptied by now, right? It did overnight, and he had the applesauce this morning???
Just called Dr. Sager, he is out this week, i made an appointment for next tuesday just in case i still needed it by then, i'll have to figure something else out. If he processes his food in the next few hours, i wont feel as nervous...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He also might have an obstruction from the peanut, or whatever is there. How much are you feeding? Give him 5-7cc's at a time and make it more on the watery side, see how that goes. Give pedialyte if the crop is still full, don't feed if the crop is not empty.

Reti


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

He's much too young to worm.
Did the crop go down at all from when you feed him? Is he pooping?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

little bird said:


> Just a thought, Raina, that ''thing'' has been in the crop for at least 48 hours that you know of. Until you can get to a vet to have it removed, I would massage the object to the top of the crop after you feed him so that the food can go into his GI tract. I would do that (gently, of course) every time I could so he can get some food, in case that is an obstruction.


She's doing that.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

he's pooping, the crop has gone down, just not as much as it should. He pooped a lot last night, and just pooped a few times, on me!  Ahhh, true pgeon love is measured by how much poop they give ya!  
Ok, took pics, cannot find puncture wound, and the leg joint seems to be barely swollen, but it is still hurting a bit, he is favoring other leg. The peanut is still there, and i mean, it REALLY feels like a peanut, i can feel the roundness of one side, and the flat side has the ridge down the center, and i can feel the little ponty thing on one side of it. You know how a peanut, when you break it in half, how it has one little point usually only on one half of it? Well, feels like he got that half. Mom and Dad must have given it to him, i ttried to put seed out and he didnt touch it, also, he isnt drinking water, at least not in front of me. I think at Rob's he was drinking so much cause he was so hungry, i'm impressed he figured it out so quick, and the bottle this mroning, he's got it down, i dont even have to guide the beak, he pokes around and sticks it right in, very cute!
i'm posting pics now, they dont show much, and they came out bad, i'll have to take more later, the flash made it look bad, You get the idea though, he is favoring one leg, and how Rob said he held one wing higher, yes, because he is trying to use that wing to steady himself. I have him in a nest, and he can move the leg, and walk, he just limps a bit and tries not to use it much.
Also, he's not a very cooperative patient, he doesnt get a sticker for good behavior, thats for sure!  
Ok, here's the link, i got a close up pic of his bum, and just so you know, he wasnt mooning you!! I was trying to get the pic of both legs nest to each other, but as i said, not very cooperative....
http://public.fotki.com/xxscribblerxx/humphrey/
Oh, LittleBird, just saw the post. Ok, will do that still, Charis mentioned it by phone and should of mentioned i was doing that....
Umm, Littlebird, have you heard that noise i was referring to? Also, whats the best way you came up with to feed them this young? Is the nostrils going into the bottle a worry? My paranoia is that the noise during squeaking and the nostrils being covered in nipple during feedings are related. Paranoia, or real worry?
Be back later, gotta get back to work...
His crop hasnt emptied all the way yet, so i will wait to feed him again, once i get the hang of how many hours it takes for his crop to empty i'll be able to come home on time for his feeding and still get in my work...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That one leg does look swollen.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Nope, Littlebird, not behind on reading because we didnt post it! Dont butt out, butt in! 
yes, Charis, it does look like he landed on that leg. Rob, i think you have gentle kitty's, they didnt seem to bite down hard. Were they holding him by the feathers, or the wing? Must have heard him squeaking and found him, when Humphrey squeaks, all my cats line up outside my door, it's like a dinner bell went off.


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Like I said the cat had NO idea what to do with him. 
He seemed have Humphrey gripped around the base of the wing.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Nope, Littlebird, not behind on reading because we didnt post it! Dont butt out, butt in!
> yes, Charis, it does look like he landed on that leg. Rob, i think you have gentle kitty's, they didnt seem to bite down hard. Were they holding him by the feathers, or the wing? Must have heard him squeaking and found him, when Humphrey squeaks, all my cats line up outside my door, it's like a dinner bell went off.


Hi guys, this is why it is so important to kinda summarize on the board what has been said and done in a phone conversation. We all learn from information provided.

Moxie, the swelling may well be from a puncture, either by a tooth or nail and hopefully it will get better once the meds kick in. I have never dealt (knock on wood) with Paratyphoid but I understand it can cause swelling in the joints. That is just something I'm throwing in here so you can keep an eye on the swelling. This is a link to Siegel's which explains Paratyphoid. I honestly don't recommend treating for that at this time but just wanted you to be aware.

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Summary from my understanding*

1.] Moxie has never had a bird quite this young before and is a nervous first time mom. Thinks the baby has a slow crop but baby is pooping and active. I think baby is OK but I can't see it so advise I have given is based on my personal experience and what i have done in a similar situation. 

2.] Feels to Moxie like the baby has a peanut in the crop. ..probably fed by parents.

3.] Moxie is massaging the crop to keep the peanut from causing obstruction and supplementing formula with human baby applesauce which won't hurt baby and will help if baby has a slow crop.

4.] She is giving 1 drop of baytril 1 time a day. 

5.] Vet is out of the office until next week and an appointment is schedule for next Tuesday.

I don't think I'm forgetting anything but...I'm ok with being reminded if I have.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Moxie
If you're worried about him sticking his whole nose in the syringe (I used to worry about that too) then you could try feeding him like I do. It's a little messy and takes a little more time, but after a few times, they do better with it and there's very little chance, if any of anything going down the wrong pipe so to speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg
Also, about the "noise" he's making. See if it sounds anything like this. The baby in this video has sort of a weazing noise, but as of yet, I haven't figured out what the heck is wrong with him, so therefore, I haven't given him any kind of meds, because I don't know what to give him and I don't want to start just pumping stuff into him. I realize that my baby and yours are different situations. I know where my baby came from and where it has been. You don't. My baby doesn't do it all the time. He still squeaks like a normal baby and he's eating and growing just fine. Sort of weird.
Anyway, you've got quite a cute little fellow there. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hFFvaNh5KE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4oXtvogLRU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jjMljROwwE


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Hey everyone! Yes, Charis about summed it up, sorry i left that bit out about massaging the peanut up.
Ok, i came home real quick around 3, and the crop had emptied. I gave about 10 cc of food, and he got, oh, about 7 cc i'd guess.
When i got home at about 9, the crop wasnt emptied, the crop emptied sometime between 9pm and 12:30 am, so i fed him again. Since i was home and didnt have to rush back to work, i felt the crop real good while it was empty, and i THOUGHT i had felt something else earlier, but didnt want to post until i was sure. Yes, he has two halves of a peanut in there, i can feel each half separately. There's not much i can do except for what i've been doing. I have to go back to that vet anyways, the one squeaker i had, who isnt a squeaker anymore, that had a torn ligament has to go back anyways. Dr. Sager wanted to see him again, and he'll have to see Humphrey now too. 
Charis is right, i am just a nervous mom, and i think if having REAL kids is like this at all, count me out!  
I am just super nervous because adult pigeons are much more hardy, tougher, but babies, well, it kind of scares me! I hope it isnt paratyphoid, you know, i didnt even think of that, but i should of, i just assumed that he fell out of nest and hurt himself, and you know what they say about assuming! Well, isnt baytril the medication for paratyphoid anyways? He's getting baytril already, under the assumption he must have gotten some small amount of cat saliva somewhere, somehow, even though i cannot find a puncture wound.
Lovebirds, i cannot even hear anything that much on those you-tube videos of your baby, is that the baby7 making those noises or the birds in the background? I'm going to try and record the noises he makes tomorrow, we'll see if it works. 
Oh, Lovebirds, that feeding method, thats the one Charis tried to get me to do, and he will not open his beak at all, very, very uncooperative! Lovebirds, those babies are ADORABLE! I remember you talking about Junebug on the forum somewhere..
Well, watching the video, and trying it again with Humphrey with no success, gave me an idea. I tried, and it works GREAT! What i did is i filled up 2 of the 5 cc syringes, and took the nipple with hole cut out off the baby bottle end, i then put a tube on end of the 5 cc syringe, cut it half way down, didnt need it that long, and had Humphrey stick his beak in the nipple, he's got that part down. Once his beak is in the nipple, he opens his beak wide and i put the tube down to the back of his throat and GENTLY, very slowly, push the food back, and he GOBBLES it up, i did 10 cc in all, and he got all of it. I now think he would normally need more, because his crop didnt fill all the way, but with the peanuts, i dont want to fill it all the way. Or do you think it is safe to fill it all the way? 
Also, i am still giving applesauce and a tiny bit of medistatin. I have divet too if we think the sound is respiratory. I'm hoping it's a normal thing, i'll see if i can get a good recording of it tomorrow.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Moxie...Please check your private messages or email.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OMG, Renee, i was looking at your videos on youtube, and you know how they put "related videos," on right side, well, some GUY, or BOY, put a video of him feeding a baby pigeon to his tarantula! I really think YouTube needs to change that, i've so many times went to look at animal friendly videos, only to look at the "related videos," and get sick! I've seen some gross stuff, i think if you are looking at something as sweet as Junebug and brother video, you should have gross videos come up as "related!" They are NOT related! If you are viewing animal friendly, then only animal friendly should be related!


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## first flight (Apr 15, 2008)

*oh no!!!!!!!!!!!*

this baby pigeon he Must have A:gotten it from the nest 
or B: it fell and he got it

now this bird looks only about a week old to me
you r doing a great job taking care of him BUT
you NEED 2 go 2 a store that sells a special formula 
to feed baby birds or pigeons  or it might die 


good luck!!!!!!!!!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Firstflight, I am giving him Kaytee Exact formula, with a bit of nutrical mixed in, a tiny bit for extra calories.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Just updating on Humphrey, he is doing well, still a swollen joint, still a peanut, and still the noise.
I went to the nest by my house, where the two babies are Humphries age, this was ONLY for Humphrey research purposes!  Had NOTHING to do with seeing the cute babies, REALLY!  
But, i listened to their squeaking for about half an hour, and there was ALOT of squeaking going on! I didnt hear that noise from them. Humphries noise almost sounds like the honking a goose makes, but very short, like split second. When he is sitting by my face, i can almost time it with a breath in or out, almost like the noise is asthma like? I wonder if he does have a cold or something. I'm keeping him warm.
This little guy seems to be processing food a bit faster, and he sure thinks so too, he SQUEAKS constantly! I mean, LOUD and just panicky too, he thinks he is hungry ALL the time! He thinks there isnt enough food on the whole planet, i swear!
Appointment on Tuesday, the guy that raises racing pigeons told me i should give him olive oil or cod liver oil, to grease it through, but i disagree because i think it would just get stuck further down. What do you guys think??


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I agree with the theory that the object will possibly obstruct and I would try to keep it in the crop until the vet can extract it.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I've got the appointment today, i'll let you know what happens!!


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Good luck to both you and Humphrey!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

*edit*

Well. the Vet saw Humphrey, and said the leg is fine. The limp had reduced in the last few days, so i assumed it was just sore/bruised or something, and the vet thought the same thing. I told him about the peanut, and he grabbed Humphrey, and said, "I'll be right back," and took off down the hall with him. Scared me really, especially because i could hear Humphreys SCREAMS from down the hall, partaially because he was so hungry, the vet didnt want me to feed him before i brought him in, but partially because he was having big tweezers shoved down his throat! 
the vet walked back down the hall with Humphrey in his arms, and the tweezers holding a formula covered half peanut. I had fed him that mroning, so i assume his crop had slowed as he still had formula in the crop. I said, "Umm, did you get BOTH of them?" And he said he only felt one, and i told him there was definitely TWO halves in there. He felt around and said, Wow, you are right, be right back again! I wanted to see what he was doing, but didnt ask. More screaming ensued, and he returned with the other half, very quickly. He had taken him to the surgery room, where he put humphrey on a lighted table so he could see the peanut better and the tweezers.
One half was very long and big, the other half was short and fat, so it was two halves from different peanuts. They were very flexible, rubbery like, so had been in there for a bit. I asked how he thought Humphrey managed that, and he said probably the parents or when he fell out of the nest.
The honking noise, well, it had lessened or stopped in the last few days, but just now he started doing it again. I think it must be nothing, and he seems healthy, so we'll see what happens, maybe his neck will grow real long and i'll see he was part goose all along!  
Update with more pics soon! And Rob, anytime you want to Visit Humphrey, you are more then welcome!


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Very well done, Raina. Now for some square meals for that little trooper.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Wonderful update Moxie...I'm glad those old peanuts are out of there!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

GREAT JOB!! Way to go Humphrey..........


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Great news! I'm glad to hear he's doing so well. We're looking forward to pictures, and we'll definitely have to take a trip out your way to see him. Thank you again so much for caring for him.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Moxxie, you did a great job. Poor baby must have horrible with those two "rocks" stuck in his tunmmy.

Reti


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Nervous mom or not, you've done a fabulous job Moxxie! Humphrey is SUCH a cutie - I'm so very glad Rob that you were able to rescue the little guy. Thank goodness the vet was able to get the two halves of peanut out of his crop - should make eating much more enjoyable for the baby  I'll continue sending my good luck wishes & look forward to further updates.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I'm just catching up with this thread. I'm so glad the obstruction got cleared. He should do fine now. You are doing a wonderful job with this little guy.

Margaret


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

still no pics, sorry. Will get some up in the next few days. 
Ok, i had to set up an enclosure, he has learned to flap his wings in unison, so he can "glide," up the few inches to the basket ledge, so i put pillows up as walls, and he figured out how to scoot out of that.
Question, i mentioned to Charis that he squeaks, 24-7, does not stop, unless i leave, or if i leave him alone in the dark, and even then he does it at times. He seems hungry ALL THE TIME! Now, I was told he would do this, that it is comforting, but even AFTER i feed him, he still FREAKS out like he needs more, he doesnt get all cozy and sleepy eyed after a good meal and fall asleep, quite the opposite, especially if i am there.
I am feeding him 15-20 cc 4 times a day, and even 20 cc doesnt seem to fill his crop.
Oh, the crop is obviously moving better now, before i could only give 10-15cc, then only 3 times a day, if that. The applesauce and medistatin did wonders, also, with the peanut gone, less worry of a full crop pushing the peanut further down.
Why doesnt he get all content after a meal like other videos of babies i have seen? Isnt he supposed to, like, chill out sometimes?
Another thing, which is quite cute, he is abnormally attached to the baby bottle nipple, i mean, he isnt being fed from it anymore, from thge bottle i mean, but he thinks he is. I said before, i cut the hole in the bottle nipple, and he ate from that the first time, well, i was worried about him inhaling it, so i trick him, i give the nipple, and he squawks and opens the beak, and i tube feed that way.
Well, he is so attached to that nipple, when i am done with tube feeding, he flips if i take the nipple away, so i let him stick his beak in, and he flaps his wings crazily and closes his eyes and pushes his body against it, and it looks like he is trying to swallow, but the bottle or the tube isnt attached, so he isnt getting food. Sometimes to soothe him i give him JUST the nipple, but he refuses to be soothed, even with the nipple he is squawking and flipping out a bit.
Let me tell you, i would hate to be a pigeon mom or dad, to have that sharp beak pushed into my mouth with the force Humphrey uses on that nipple, man, i'd hate that!
So, whi is Humphrey not calming down after feedings? He doesnt nap or chill out like a baby should after flipping out then getting fed. Am i feeding him enough? I mean, the crop doesnt feel completely full after feeding, but it isnt supposed to, right?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I dunno how I missed all the action on this thread, WTG getting the peanuts out of poor baby Humphrey's crop! Now that he's able to digest food properly he's making up for lost time!!


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Yippee! The evil peanuts are removed! I've been following this thread. It's amazing how much damage the wrong food can do at a young age.


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

He does like being sung to. The night we had him, my wife sang to him while holding him and he seemed to to enjoy it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

HumphreysHome said:


> He does like being sung to. The night we had him, my wife sang to him while holding him and he seemed to to enjoy it.


That's sweet. Your cat couldn't have better humans.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, the lady at the cat shelter once wanted me to sing to a sick cat, and i told her if i sang the cat would probably die. I sang a lullaby anyways, and the cat died the next day, no joke! 
I tried to sing, and he didnt calm down. I just sang a lullaby. I am beginning to think there is something wrong, why does he not calm down? His crop is moving very fast now, i have fed him 3 times already today, and i tried to feed him a bit more, thought that would calm him down, it didnt. 
If i am anywhere near him, or anyone is, he squeaks and squeaks and does NOT stop. The only thing that quiets him down is if it is completely dark, and even then if he hears any sound/movement at all he squeaks, squeaks, screams, squeaks some more, and DOES NOT STOP!
It isnt fair for me to keep it dark to quiet him down, but i worry about him squeaking all the time. I try to lay down and watch TV or read with him, but he doesnt stop squeaking, he acts hungry ALL THE TIME! He squeaks and sticks his beak inbetween my fingers, he even tried sticking it in my nostrils. He is addicted to that baby nipple, he runs around looking for it, and when i give it to him, he'll push his beak in it, push against the thing with all his strength, and it looks like he is swallowing, or trying to swallow, even when there is nothing there, but he even still squeaks with his beak in the nipple.
I thought they were supposed to chill out, especially after feedings? I mean, i guess he sees me as momma, and wants food all the time, but i would think after filling his crop up he would feel relaxed and want to snuggle? If i hold completely still, pull the thick curtains closed to make it dark, he will be still for a few minutes, then throw another fit, then chill out for a few more minutes, on and on and on...
He is starting to peck at anything in sight, he is trying to eat lint balls on the carpet, so i have to watch him very carefully. How soon until i can give him seed?
What do you think of this?
I was gonna try and record the noises, but my recorder broke, the battery leaked inside it and broke it, he is still making the sound. He's still alive though, so i assume it isnt anything too serious, i am just thinking maybe it will go away or it is just a normal sound?
I am just worried about him never seeming full enough, and never stopping with the squeaking...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How much are you feeding him now?
I would offer him seed and see what happens. I have had some that start self-feeding under three weeks old.
You also might try putting a mirror next to him and a little stuffed animal.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i am feeding about 20cc, and i tried 23 cc today, and his crop is emptying in 3 or so hours. 
I am scared to give seed after the peanut incident, are you sure it'll go through his system?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You might try thickening the formula a bit.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

hey, i haven't followed this thread closely so i'm not sure how old the pijie is...but this link always helped me with how much to feed...
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm
Helen recommends 40 ml every 8 hours by 2 weeks age, so maybe he's hungry...


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

here's a video of Humphrey and his favorite baby bottle nipple! He flips out when he sees it! I finally figured out how to use the record on my new camera, and Humphrey's the first video!

oops, it hasnt uploaded yet, hold on...


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

man, Youtube takes forever?
can i attach a video here somehow?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> man, Youtube takes forever?
> can i attach a video here somehow?


There are other web sites but don't think you can attach it here on the forum. It's because it's the week end. Depends on how long the video is too.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj3CnXU0ZfI
ok, get ready for an overdose of cuteness! I was pressing the wrong button, so didnt get a video until AFTER i fed him. Sorry. But this is him trying to get more food from a baby bottle nipple. I trick him by letting him latch onto nipple, and when he opens his beak i put feeding tube to the back of his throat, or a ways into his throat, then i slowly plunge it, and he swallows along, but he swallows, or seems to swallow, even with the plain nipple? 
This is after him feeding, and he squeaks like this 24-7, it doesnt even stop with the nipple, as you'll see, but it seems to soothe him. He's starting to fly a bit, he climbs all over me, mostly looking for a place to stick his beak! Mostly looking for that darn nipple, i keep it in my pocket, and when i pull it out he sees it and RUNS towards it! I can even let go and he'll just push along with it on his beak, but i would never leave him alone with it.
so, the sound he makes are on the 22, 30, 33, 34, 57, 58 second mark of video. 
also on 1:15, 1:20, 1:23, 1:25 minute mark...
tell me what you think...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

He sounds just fine to me. He is supper cute!! Great job.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, thanks Charis! they do sound like little hiccups, dont they?
Isnt he the cutest thing ever? Everytime i see a pigeon now i think of them being little baby Humphrey's at one time!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He is adorable. He looks and sounds like a normal healthy baby.

Reti


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Wow has he gotten handsome! I guess it's safe to say his leg has gotten better


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

That was so cute!
Yes, it is time to start dropping some seed in that nipple. Small seeds, just a few, and see how it goes. I would start with the small wild bird mix from walmart. Or dove seed. Nothing in that mix is big enough to cause another peanut incident.
Also, before and after every nipple feeding you should start putting some seed on the table and pecking at it with your finger. That way the baby begins to associate pecking with the feeling of being full. It doesn't matter if he can't or won't eat any of those seeds at this point, they are just a learning tool so Humphrey can see seed, see you pecking the seed, and get to know what seed looks and feels like if he is lucky enough to get some in his beak.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks Philodice! You know, i am really scared to give seed, are sunflower seeds, that are in the wild bird seed mix, ok to give or not? What about the dried whole kernel corn?
I took all that stuff out and gave him some broken up Zupreem pellets to peck at, and he is pecking at it fine. For the last week or so he has been pecking at every little spot or dot of something he sees, lint, spots on my shirt, anything, so once i put the seed out he stasrted to peck at it.
I am worried about the corn and sunflower seed, should i take that out? Even the pieces of corn? It just seems too hard for him to digest...
How old would you guys all guess he is by looking at him? About 3 weeks old, younger, older? 
He hasnt learned to fly yet, he can jump far and glide a bit, but he cannot take off from the ground. He is getting out of his enclosure somehow though, it is 3 and 1/2 feet high, like cardboard walls, and it's a big space for him, like 4' by 3' square, and he's got mirrors, toys, stuffed animals, and he's not that interested in all that by the way.
He just wants that nipple, nothing else! You know, i think he does like the singing. But not my singing, my roommates singing! All the people tease me at the shelter after that cat died the day after i sung to it! They didnt say anything at first, because we were all a bit broken up about the cat dying of course. But after a month or so, when someone was singing to another cat, they said i better not sing to it because last time i killed the other cat!
Oh, they're just giving me a hard time, 'cause they are ALL jealous of my singing!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Thanks Philodice! You know, i am really scared to give seed, are sunflower seeds, that are in the wild bird seed mix, ok to give or not? What about the dried whole kernel corn?
> I took all that stuff out and gave him some broken up Zupreem pellets to peck at, and he is pecking at it fine. For the last week or so he has been pecking at every little spot or dot of something he sees, lint, spots on my shirt, anything, so once i put the seed out he stasrted to peck at it.
> I am worried about the corn and sunflower seed, should i take that out? Even the pieces of corn? It just seems too hard for him to digest...
> How old would you guys all guess he is by looking at him? About 3 weeks old, younger, older?
> ...



I would say that baby is every bit of 3 weeks old...........I wouldn't give him corn yet........it's in my feed but the parents don't really start feeding them the corn until they are about 27 days old or so. It's always left in the bowl or thrown out onto the floor. As far as the sunflower seeds......they DO give those to them. The little black ones,,not the ones with the white stripe.
He'll be flying in another week or so. I went out last night to pick up my babies off the floor and two of them that are 29 days old today were already up on the shelf. That's about 5 feet straight up.  I was suprised. I've got two others that are 32 days old and they haven't attempted to get back up on the shelf yet that I know of. I still have to pick them up.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Today he started to actually SWALLOW the seed instead of just pick it up! He is so sooo big already! I will get more pics up after finals are over. He cannot be contained in his "play area" anymore, he flies over the walls, but, he likes to hide under the bed, he'll come out when hungry or when coaxed, but spends most his time in the dark underside of bed, why is that?
Also, he likes to nuzzle up on my neck, falls asleep there, if i try to take him away he squeaks and screeches and runs back up onto my chest, so cute! He likes his neck rubbed, he starts to close his eyes if i scratch the back of his neck, he is just so adorable! I tried to put him into a home-made bird diaper, and he wasnt having any of it! Does anyone have advice for making a toddler diaper? I know Boni has instructions, but they are foreign to me, anyone have some advice? I have to cover everything with old sheets, and i want to get him used to the diaper thing....


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## HumphreysHome (Apr 23, 2008)

Aww I need to visit him soon! I can't wait for the pictures.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Wanted to update everyone on Humphrey. He is doing well, a bit too well! He is now a teenager, i'm gonna get more pics up soon.
He acts every bit the teenager, and went from being this little love-bug to a cooing, wingslapping, pecking biting MONSTER! Oh, he's still my little love-bug, he just doesnt know it right now!
Now, is this a phase, the teenage phase, or is it just his personality?


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