# My dog got a pigeon.



## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

He jumped up and grabbed it while it was trying to fly away. I yelled and he dropped it. The pigeon seemed startled and I picked it up and checked it over and it didn't seem to be bleeding from anywhere. I put it in a large dog kennel in a rabbit run we have outside. That was two weeks ago. I leave the cage open for it to leave during the day and shut it at night since the area has feral cats that wander at night. It seems perfectly healthy, eats, drinks, walks around in the cage, but will not leave. I feel bad that it's caged up because of my dog. It lost a lot of feathers when my dog got it, is it possible it cannot fly? If that's the problem will the feathers grow back?

I have a second question. My father who lives next door is retired and has taken up feeding pigeons. I don't think that was a great idea because it has some of the neighbors bothered. Every once in awhile he gets a sick pigeon. Always the same, it's foaming out of the mouth, and has discharge coming out the eyes and beak. Is someone poisoning the pigeons or is this a virus? There was a really young one that died overnight yesterday. It was tiny, just a baby. Is there a way to reverse that when he comes across a sick pigeon?

Thanks for any help.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Katee,
Thank you for taking care of the pigeon your dog caught. Could one of the wings possibly be hanging lower than the other? I'm wondering if maybe the pigeon's wing was broken by your dog.
Is it possible to post a picture?
Where do you live, in case we have a member that lives near by that may be able to help?
As for the sick pigeons your father is finding,it could be a number of things, all of which you mentioned. Foaming of the mouth, would make me suspicious of poisioning. Other members surely will have opinions as well.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

*Thank You*

I suppose it is possible his/her wing is broke. She/he can spread the wings out. I'm not sure if you wanted one of each side or from what angle. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1546560466/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1546560462/

I think it's female? She's actually got quite an endearing personality, she's a little character.  

I live in Arizona.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It looks like one wing hangs a little lower than the other but that could just be the angle of the picture. Does it look that way to you?
Where in Arizona are you located? We do have a member in Arizona


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

*They*

look pretty even to me when she's just standing or walking. I'm in the Phoenix Metro Area.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I've contacted our member in Arizona to look at this thread. 
In the mean time...check the wings to see if they feel the same, specifically the joints and where the wings connect to the body? Does anything feel swollen? As you do that, look for any broken flight feathers on the wings. 
Might also look inside the mouth for any yellow blotches, as long as you will be handling the bird.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Katee, welcome to the forum and thank you so very much for rescuing this pretty little pigeon. And, yes, they are endearing.

You mentioned that she will not leave. Does she try to fly at all? You can hold her around her body with both hands, with her wings on top of your hands and very gently raise her up to about head high then bring her back down so she will fan her wings out. That way you can tell if they both have good mobility. She may be still a little sore too. 

You mentioned it lost a lot of feathers. If they were flight feathers that may account for her not wanting to fly. When you raise her up you can tell if and how many feathers are missing from her wings. The tail feathers are not as critical for their flying but we never release one until both wing and tail feathers are grown in. You just may have a sweet pigeon for a few more weeks. At least it is always warm where you are so you wouldn't have to carry her over in the winter like we do.

I have never seen a pigeon foam at the mouth. If they have respiratory problems then their eyes and nose may water. I would definitely suspect poisoning. If your father gets any more sick ones in then you can come on the forum and we'll try to work through whatever illness it may have.

Bless you and your father for caring.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

*Thanks*

again so much. I felt and I didn't feel anything swollen. The throat looked fine. She can spread the wings, I'm not sure about the flight feathers because I'm not really sure what to look for. It looks like maybe it's the left wing? I took some more pictures, maybe that will help someone who knows better what to look for.

Both wings.

http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1546107933/

Right wing.

http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1546107935/in/photostream/

Left wing.

http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1546107979/in/photostream/


She seems pretty content. Very rarely she'll wander out a few feet into the pen but usually stays in her cage. When I open her cage for the day, the rabbit goes in there and they just hang out together. Is it okay for her to be around the rabbit, the rabbit thinks it's her new best friend.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Cute about the rabbit enjoying the company. Some rabbits can be agressive and that would be the only concern. 
It looks like she is missing some flight feathers on the left wing which In time will grow back. When that happens and if that is the reason she is hanging around, she likely will want her freedom.
I'd love to see some pictures of the pigeon and rabbit together. I'll bet they look cute.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Katee, it looks like her wings can spread out pretty evenly and I don't see any missing feathers on her left side. However, her right side from your bottom shot looks like there may be one or two feathers missing. Its odd because from the top shots they look really good. I don't think the few that may be missing would interfere with her flying but lets wait until others come on so they can take a look.

She may just like her new home too much.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Katee, it looks like her wings can spread out pretty evenly and I don't see any missing feathers on her left side. However, her right side from your bottom shot looks like there may be one or two feathers missing. Its odd because from the top shots they look really good. I don't think the few that may be missing would interfere with her flying but lets wait until others come on so they can take a look.
> 
> She may just like her new home too much.


LOL...oh Maggie...I think we're talking about the same wing. I suspect that for this bird missing those feathers is the problem.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hey Charis,
Just got your message. Been out all day.  

*My dog got a pigeon*


Katee said:


> * *He jumped up and grabbed it while it was trying to fly away*.
> 
> I yelled and he dropped it. The pigeon seemed startled and I picked it up and checked it over and it didn't seem to be bleeding from anywhere.
> I put it in a large dog kennel in a rabbit run we have outside.
> ...


Welcome to Pigeon Talk Katee.  

Since the pigeon was able to be caught, I'm wondering if there wasn't something going on that hindered it from escaping your dog in the first place.

What do his droppings look like?
Could you also check his keel (breast) bone? There should be a sufficient amount of muscle on each side.

There is a rehabber located in Chandler (East Valley Wildlife) that you could contact if need be. They may be able to direct you to someone who lives closer to you.

The email address is: [email protected]
The phone # is 480-814-9339

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

I went out and felt and it felt fine, although honestly I have no idea what I'm looking for. If you'd like a picture I can do that for you, but I will be gone all day tomorrow so I can't do it until Saturday. 

I saw the pigeon fly in the yard and walk around before my dog got it and it seemed fine. I'm not sure what the problem was here because we have pigeons in our yard all the time, they walk within six inches of the dog and he doesn't care. I had just given him a treat a few minutes before and I'm not sure if maybe he had it laying in the grass and hadn't eaten it and the pigeon got too close?

I will look at the droppings again but when I clean the cage out they're usually pretty firm and white and a kind of brownish color.

Thank you for the contact info


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

Oops I did mix up the pictures. That would be her right wing and my left.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for checking Katee.
Sounds like the keel bone & droppings are normal.  

You're very welcome on the contact info.  

Let us know how things are going.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Katee said:


> I have a second question.
> *My father who lives next door is retired and has taken up feeding pigeons.*
> 
> I don't think that was a great idea because it has some of the neighbors bothered.
> ...


Hi Katee,
I had intended on replying to the above in my last post, but apparently forgot.  

There could be a number of things causing this problem.

This is just a thought to ponder. Do you think what your dad is seeing in his sick pijjies might be a buildup of mucous? 

Often times, in advanced cases of canker, pigeons will develop mucous. 

Cindy


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

I talked to my father and he said that yes, on some it definitely might be mucous. Not all of them foam. There's just been so many. He's probably had 30 sick birds in the last two years and not one has made it past 48 hours. 

I know this will sound weird and hard to believe but they come to him. He sits on his back porch and they just walk up, like I'm sick, I'm dying, help me.

He tries, and he gives them a warm safe place to stay but he always loses them. 

This is generally what he does and I'm sure he is not doing things correctly.

He cleans off the foam/mucous off the birds face. He puts it in a warm safe place away from predators. He gives it food and water. Usually by morning the bird has passed away, a couple have made it two days.


BTW, ours which my youngest named Angel is still doing very well.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Katee, 
If it is canker, it is very treatable and inexpensive treatment too. It could be that those birds can be saved. You can order canker medication from any of the pigeon supply places and a link to them is in our resource section. I prefer tablets for individual treatment over the kind you put in water. That way, you know the bird is getting the medication. It would require your dad to treat the bird and keep it inside and confined until it improves. Sounds like he would be a good person for that job and probably find it very rewarding.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

I told him they may be able to be treated with the antibiotics. (My father doesn't do the internet) and he's excited about it. I'm going to go look at the resource page and order some for him. With so many birds, what's a good amount to have handy?


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

I'm lost from the start. If it's canker, how would we tell when we find a bird and on the Siegel link there's multiple canker treatments, which is the best? Do we just need canker treatment or do we need antibiotics or are they the same? I'm sorry, I'm new to all this, any help would be appreciated.

Would the 10 in 1 capsules be good, although they're out of stock right now?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would buy Rondazole. 100 tabs are, $24.95 at foys pigeon supply. The treatment is 1 a day for 5 days. In this situation, that's what I would use.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

I'm not seeing it, when I put it in a search at foy's it brings me to this page.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/misc_meds/index.htm


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Foy's Pigeon Supplies - Since 1892!
Canker Products Canker is the most commonof all pigeon diseases and while seldom fatal to old birds, ...
...-Since 1892! Canker Products Canker is the most commonof all ... 
... or flyer is the Canker you don't see-Cankercan occur anywhere in ... 
... that is not Canker, but just material from the lungs.Tylan is a ... 
... The most popular medication on the market. For the treatment of ... 
... A combination of 3 medications for the prevention of Canker, ... 
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker/index.html • Wednesday, 18 January 2006, 2:25pm GMT • 19.1k


Try the above.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

Ordered.

Thank you so much for your help.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Charis,

Do you think she should go ahead and order some antibiotics and maybe Appertex? Get what they may need now and later and save on shipping.

They have Braggs ACV at Bashas.

Kaytee,

If you need anything right now let me know I have stuff on hand and I live in Tempe.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

Is the Bragg's an antibiotic or for canker also? The next time we get a sick bird, I will post pictures and a description before doing anything so we don't give it the wrong thing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's an organic apple cider vinegar that some of us put in our bird's water. It's very good for them and is helpful in controlling canker outbreaks. My birds, however will not drink water with it in it. They will not drink any water that is not, just water.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Katee, glad to know Angel is doing well.

There are two medications I would not be without - Baytril, which is a good antibiotic and Nystatin, which is a anti-fungal. The Baytril is called an injectable but we simply put a 1 cc syringe with needle attached into the top and draw it out, REMOVE THE NEEDLE, and open the bird's beak and put the medicine in its mouth. The Nystatin also would require a 1 cc syringe without a needle and given the same way. I use a small brown medicine bottle to pour the Nystatin in so you don't draw out of the "master" bottle and contaminate it. 

We also use a milder antibiotic called Bactrim. We usually use this first and if that doesn't do the job switch to Baytril. So, I guess you'd say there are 3 I wouldn't be without.  

There are many of us who can help your dad with the correct dosages.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Confused yet, Katee?
The medications Maggie is talking about are good one to have on hand for sure. The one you ordered is for canker which is what we were originally talking about.
You know that we are always here if you need help. Kippy and Cindy are both in Arizona and good contacts for you. They are both very kind. The others of us are too, we are just farther away.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

Haha, yes a little confused, although I think I'm getting it. My only concern is treating the pigeons for the right thing. Canker, it sounds like I would be able to see by looking in their mouth and throat? 

Nystatin, I have to look but I believe I have some. Isn't that what is used to treat thrush in infants? 

Baytril is an antibiotic, and I also have read about Flagyl on here, which I also think I have. Is it the same for humans as for pigeons? I will order the Baytril.

Also, before I was married and became a stay at home mom I worked in a vet's office. I've given many shots to dogs and cats and vaccinate our animals. Although I've never given a bird a shot, I know I could do it, I don't have a problem giving an animal a shot if need be.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Perfect. You are more informed that most.
You may not be able to see canker but often you can.
Yes.
Yes.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hey Katee,
I live in Mesa (Dobson Ranch area). If there's anything I can do to help please let me know. 

So glad to hear Angel is doing well.  

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Katee, I would imagine Nystatin is used to treat thrush in children, since it is a fungal infection, but I'm only versed in the pigeon aspect of it so I don't know if it is the same concentration for both.

Flagyl is used in the treatment of canker. If you do have that on hand then we're in business! Make sure the expiration date is still good.

I don't want to confuse you about the syringe/needle thing  . Our Baytril comes in those little bottles with a rubber cap that you simply insert the needle into the rubber top, draw out the medicine, remove the needle and dose the bird with the syringe. 

I doubt you'll need to use your skills with shots on your pigeon. The only time I recall we ever have to inject a pigeon is when they have lead poisoning.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2007)

I recommend 1 in 4 tablets from Vitaking;

http://www.vitakingproducts.com/storefronta.htm


It has a very good canker drug in it. It hits coccidiosis and quite a number of bacterial infections including skin, respiratory and gut. Look for it under coccidiosis treatments


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Katee, I would imagine Nystatin is used to treat thrush in children, since it is a fungal infection, but I'm only versed in the pigeon aspect of it so I don't know if it is the same concentration for both.
> 
> Flagyl is used in the treatment of canker. If you do have that on hand then we're in business! Make sure the expiration date is still good.
> 
> ...


Maggie,
The Nystatin I use is the same kind used for thrush in children and it works just fine, My vet calls in the prescription to the pharmacy when I run out. 
What she has if fine to use, if she needs it, probably even if it is a bit past expiration date. 
It's really good she has skills and some meds that she can already work with. And if she should need to give an injection...yepee! I'm sure glad I know how to give them. Shots are scary if you are unsure of how to administer them and being unsure is not a good thing in an emergency situation. I use injections for birds that need antibotics but have slow crops. Once the food starts moving through the crop, I switch over to oral treatment of the same.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yeast is a type of fungus though fungus itself is a broader category and not
limited to Candiasis/yeast infections. Nystatin is sold by the Pigeon Supply Houses listed in the Resource Section. You can use the human grade for 
pigeons, it's a topical medication and needs contact with the yeast to treat
it. Medistatin (Medpet and Glostatin are the two most well known names
for it @ the pigeon supply houses).

It's great that you are familiar and comfortable w/giving injections, there are
times when injections are the favored method of delivery for therapy for birds. Very sick birds, very dehydrated birds (sub-q) and vaccinations all come to mind as potential candidates for your skills  .

Anyway, just glad that you are getting help w/your Dad's feral flock, it must
be very upsetting for him to rescue these birds and see them die so soon. They may well be suffering from Trichomonas (Canker) and resulting dehydration, so sub-q hydrating techniques may come in very handy for you.
Thanks for helping the birds in your area.

fp


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

You didn't confuse me Lady Tarheel, I knew what you meant. I was just saying if it ever needed to be done, I could do it. 

I'm glad the flagyl can be used. With the young pigeon that died a few days ago my dad made a big mistake, he put it in with my pigeon. (I didn't know until hours later when I came home but remedied the situation). Since I don't know why it died or what it had, it's made me paranoid that my pigeon will fall ill. I just wanted something (antibiotics) on hand quickly in case it came to that. But, I've been checking her daily and she has no signs that I can see. Hopefully what the other pigeon died from wasn't contagious.

I fixed that though so it won't happen again, my pigeon was in the cage he normally uses for sick birds, it is disinfected after each bird. So, I set him up with just a large cat carrier for now if he gets another bird.

Thanks feral, and yes it does upset him, he's stayed up all night with sick birds before, he does try hard, he's never saved one though. Now, with the help from you guys, hopefully that will change.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BTW, here's a link to the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

And from the Resource Section, a link to the Pigeon Supply Houses:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

I hope that changes for him and the birds as well, Katee.

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Katee, I am touched by your dad's care of birds. We lost several pigeons early on in our rehabbing "career" but finding a licensed rehabber and a great vet to guide us made all the difference in the world. I only wish this forum existed then. Tell your dad we will be cheering when he saves the next one.


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

Thank you Lady Tarheel, I'm hoping he gets a save here soon. He lost a feral cat he tamed due to feline leukemia a few months ago. That was an overnight visit to an emergency vet, only to lose him in the end. And a stray dog he took in about five years ago has been diagnosed with Cushing's disease and her prognosis isn't good. She's now blind in both eyes, but still enjoys her daily walks and gets around okay as long as no new obstacles are put in her way.

AZWhitefeather, I'm in the Northwest Valley close to Surprise so I'm a good 50 miles or so from you. This metropolis just keeps growing and growing. lol

Thank you, feral pigeon, for the links.

I'm kind of taking a lot of heat from my family for this, they think I'm indulging his unhealthy behavior by getting the meds and stuff.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Katee said:


> .....
> 
> I'm kind of taking a lot of heat from my family for this, they think I'm indulging his unhealthy behavior by getting the meds and stuff.


Seems like a healthy thing to care about other sensient beings and nurse them
back to health or at the least, to try and do so.

I could think of worse kinds of behavior to worry about.... 

fp


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

The pigeon is still here, still doing well, just not flying yet.

I have another question about a different pigeon. If an older pigeon is having trouble eating (missing the seed) could that be caused by blindness?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Katee said:


> The pigeon is still here, still doing well, just not flying yet.
> 
> I have another question about a different pigeon. If an older pigeon is having trouble eating (missing the seed) could that be caused by blindness?


That is possible, but once they get their beak in the seed and are hungry they will do a pretty good job of picking up seed and eating it, unless they are sick or young and don't know yet how to eat.

Does the bird react to you when you come near, how does it act otherwise? Is it active or slow and sluggish, and the poop how does it look?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Katee

It could be blindness but could also be a PMV symptom. Does it exhibit any abnormal head or body movements; i.e. "star gazing", staggering, somersaulting in flight, flying backwards, turning in circles, excessive thirst that results in large amounts of fluid expelled with thin droppings?


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## Katee (Oct 11, 2007)

The droppings, I'm really not sure as she's a feral pigeon that just comes to eat twice a day and I didn't see her. My father just wanted me to ask. He said she had no other symptoms than having difficulty with missing/pecking the seed. She hasn't came to eat today so maybe it was something else.


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## lovecanadageese (Oct 20, 2007)

*Where can I obtain Baytril without a prescription?*

Hello everyone:

Does anyone have any information on where I can purchase Baytril without a prescription? I need it on hand for emergencies.

Thank you very much.

Choo


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

lovecanadageese said:


> Hello everyone:
> 
> Does anyone have any information on where I can purchase Baytril without a prescription? I need it on hand for emergencies.
> 
> ...


You can't buy the actual brand name, Baytril, but you can buy the "generic" of the drug from some of the on-line pigeon supply houses. I think both Pidgey and feralpigeon have posted here where they get theirs. I'll look for the links in a bit or perhaps one of them will be on and post the link for us  

Terry


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