# Egg Hatching & Caring Young Birds



## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi Everyone,
I have just joined the group. I have a few pigeons - White fantails, Blowers, Jacobians. I face 2 problems - 
1. The young ones mostly die of some rashes on them. What may be the reason? Some said due to mosquitos - So I put up some napthalene in a container away from them so that it keeps away mosquitos. But the problem Stays.
2. The eggs dont hatch the young ones die in the shell unable to come out of it.
Please Help

Sumit


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sumit and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. I have made your questions a separate thread in the Show Pigeon Forum so it will get the attention it deserves.

It sounds like your birds may be getting avian pox as well as paratyphoid. 

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear about all the deaths.

Please isolate all your sick pigeons, especially the parents who's baby's are dying in the shell. Do not allow them to breed for now, seperate the sexes. Get a diagnosis and treat with Baytril if it is Paratyphus/Salmonellas. Thereafter please innoculate for PMV and Paratyphus. Also, pox (topical treatment) the babies when they are around six weeks of age.

It is possible the babies are dying from mosquito bites as well as Pox, especially if they are not feathered, we have that problem here. You can cover any openings with mosquito netting, that is what we use, it really cuts back on the amount of mosquitos. Also, we end our baby season just before the worst part of the mosquito season for that very reason.

I also recommend a good calcium supplement, like pick blocks that contain, oyster shells as well as red pigeon grit. You should also purchase a liquid calcium supplement with iodine, which is also crucial for hatchability.

Others will be along with more information.


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Thank u for your reply. Actually I am a novice.
It seems all my pigeons are quite healthy. Can u please tell me what are the sympoms of Paratyphus/Salmonellas. I suppose Baytril is the drug. Can u tell me me how to administer it - in details. Even for innoculation for PMV and Paratyphus what might be the drug/composition required? 

I suppose they get pox - Avian pox. Actually the symptoms match. There are big pimple(about half-cm to 1cm base diameter) kind of growth on the hairess portions, which are difficult to remove. It keeps on growing through wounds/cuts. What is the tropical tretment for pox?

What are the symptoms of paratyphoid?

I suppose there is something called Tincture-Iodine. What is the dilution required and can it be given empty stomatch? I thought that 70% humidity is necessary for hatching which might not have been attained as the hay which serves as the base of the bird house remains very dry. Can I spray water on the egg around the 17th/18th day?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sumit.Ghosh said:


> Thank u for your reply. Actually I am a novice.
> It seems all my pigeons are quite healthy. Can u please tell me what are the sympoms of Paratyphus/Salmonellas. I suppose Baytril is the drug. Can u tell me me how to administer it - in details. Even for innoculation for PMV and Paratyphus what might be the drug/composition required?
> 
> *Symptoms of Paratyphoid can be many in severly infected birds, because the salmonella flagellates can be found throughout the body. Rapid weight loss, loose greenish poops, swelling in leg joints or feet, and wing boils. Baby birds will show labored breathing and die in the nest before they are 2 weeks of age, as well as dying in the egg.
> ...


*

I have used a prepared product made specifically for pigeons with iodine in it, so someone else will be along to answer about the iodine.
Do not spray the eggs, just make sure mom and dad have the opportunity to bathe, they maintain the proper moisture for the eggs.*


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Greetings*

I have covered my flight area with outdoor patio cover. It has very tiny holes like a screen. I dump water container every three days so bugs can't grow up and bite my birds. I also spray all trees and bushes where bugs might hang out.

Parathyriod-Black or gray unhatched eggs. Babies died before they get 3 weeks old. Older babies died before adulthood. Adults can have wing or leg boils. they can't fly or they limb, when walking. Some pigeons show nothing. They look and act healthy but give the disease to other birds.


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi Everyone there is news again!
They have laid two good eggs and I pray that they grow fine this time. I noticed that they defer from takin a bath as the bowl in which they bath is deep. So I have reduced the water leve so that it is convinient for them to have a bath. However as I am away the whole day I never see them taking a bath. Only on off days - which is rare, I can have a close look on them.

There is one more problem that I noticed this morning that a fantail had a lot of gas coming out when it pooped and also the poop looks white in color and is a bit frothy.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Diseases*

Check out Jedds, also resoures here at pigeon talk or do a search on your topic. I will check around and see what I can Find.


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## andyw (Mar 3, 2006)

*question*

how is paratyphoid spread and what exactly is it


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

andyw said:


> how is paratyphoid spread and what exactly is it



It is a very common and quite widespread disease that is caused by a gram negative bacterium which is flagellated, therefore mobile. It can be brought in the loft either through introduction of infected pigeons, by rodents, inhalation of infected dust, on the soles of pigeon fanciers shoes, by roaches, and through wild pigeons. Often, an adult pigeon can overcome the disease but remain a carrier and produce infected droppings.


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## andyw (Mar 3, 2006)

thanks for the info


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Hello, Sumit

Paratyhphoid/salmonellosis can have many different symptoms as it can affect various parts of the pigeon's body, and there are different strains of the disease. It can cause diarrhea and lethargy. It can cause leg and wing boils. Adult birds may carry it and show no signs of illness, but their chicks contract it and die while still in the egg or as newborns. Those that survive often suffer wing and/or leg disablement. A high rate of chick mortality is often a sign of paratyphoid in the flock.

And you are right--Baytril is the drug of choice for treating salmonellosis/paratyphoid. The dosage depends on the strength and the form of the drug (i.e., pills, injectable, liquid).

It sounds as though you have more than one problem, as the other symptoms you describe sound like pigeon pox.

Here in the U.S. there is an injectable vaccine for paratyphoid and a brush-on vaccine for pox. I don't know what meds you have available there in India, but there must be some, as there are pigeon fanciers in India.  And I _think_ some of our companies ship overseas. Here's a link to Global Pigeon Supply:

http://globalpigeon.com/

Global also has a good page on their web site that describes a pigeon health maintenance regimen. 

Do you know how to treat your pigeons for the most common diseases, trichomoniasis (also called "canker") and coccidiosis? Most breeders treat them prophylactially several times a year, especially before the breeding season, so the diseases don't afflict the babies. You can't completely get rid of canker and coccidiosis, but you can keep them under control.

I recommend you not allow your birds to have more babies until you have treated them for paratyphoid and other diseases and vaccinated them. 

Best of luck with your pigeons.

-Cathy


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi Everyone,
I have news. I consulted 3 doctors. Got them Vaccined for paratyphoid rather called "Ranikhet" here. There was a severly infected bird which I was trying to feed milk as it was not eating. It died. Is it wrong to feed milk? another one was on its way to death but I got it. It was recovering fine and was showing improvement. About the young ones. I had 4 young ones. 2 fantails and 2 jocobins. They were almost to a nice size with feathers coming out. I had also given them a small dose for preventing pox.
Generally I get up late on weekends. Last to Last saturday at around 7:30 my dad gave me a frantic call I ran to the terrace. I was half sleeping. The nest on the terrace had a massacare. Something had killed 10 of my pigeons. 4 jacobins (2+2 young) and 6 fantails (4+2 young). They all were bleeding from their head. One jacobin had a broken lower beak. A jaobin child was missing and the other was without its head. 
I have no idea what had attacked. there is a very small running gap below the net about 3 inches at maximum. It is for washing and cleaning the nest. I am totally disheartened. Can you suggest some improvements on my Nest...
Sumit.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sumit,

I am so very sorry for all your losses. Firstly .. NO, you should not feed pigeons milk. They are lactose intolerant and get no nutrition from it. You need a baby bird forumla made for hookbills to feed them or to make your own from game bird or chicken crumbles. Please tell us what is available to you.

Since I am not familiar with what predators you may have in your area, I can only suggest rats .. here in the US I would guess raccoons, but I don't think you have them there.

You do need to close off your pigeon cage/loft so that predators cannot get in. Might make it more difficult to clean, but you can't have big enough openings for predators to get in.

Terry


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Yes! Thanks. I am plannig a tight cage now. I was thinking of keeping something that can keep raccoons or rats away. Any Guess. Natural Protection!! How do you prepare baby food? I think Gram flour with water and some health drink like Horlics? U know Horlics. I think they will like it. No idea. Oh I have no babies might be I will have them soon. Any Idea how I can trap the racoon??


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi,
I have news! I have got the cage Tight! It stands on a iron frame with maximum a cm space on any side!! OK then they are secure, I feel! But do I need to protect them from red-ants and mice the smaller ones?? Actually the net is such that I can put my finger through it !!

Next: My Blowers have successfully raised 2 young ones which are now healthy and are playing around! Thanks to all of you!!

O! One more thing! Can I Shampoo my peigeons or detergent is better?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

No shampoo...........I'm not sure what you can get in India? You can order bath salts and such from the pigeon supply houses......surely there is something there you could buy, but I don't know what it would be? Just DON"T use shampoo OR detergent.........


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

I did shampoo them!! What is the harmul effect of it? Do I need to do something to cure them from the effect of shampoo?
Sumit


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sumit,

The shampoo would have removed the natural oils from the feathers and skin. Just offer them plain water for bathing, and they will preen and get their feathers back in good condition again.

Terry


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi Terry,
Actually I noticed that the big Bugs drop off the birds when I shampoo them. Then I spray them with a Natural Insect repellents! This helped a lot in reducing the pests they carry!! Please Comment!

Sumit.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

The spray should be enough to get rid of bugs. As Terry said, shampoo removes their natural oils and shouldn't be used. The best thing to do is offer them baths of clean, clear water once or twice a week. I use clean cat litter pans and place an inch or two of water in them. My pigeons love to bathe and their feathers stay clean and in good condition. Here in the U.S. you can buy bath salts just for pigeons, but I don't know if that's available in India and I wouldn't give them bath salts made for humans. You can also add a little bit of Borax to the bath water, but I think clean water is the best.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sumit.Ghosh said:


> I did shampoo them!! What is the harmul effect of it? Do I need to do something to cure them from the effect of shampoo?
> Sumit


As already mentioned by Terry, the shampoo washes out the birds natural oils and powder, which keep them from looking like drown rats. The natural oils and powder keeps the rain from absorbing into the feathers, which will dissable their flight , weigh them down, if caught flying in the rain. 

By allowing them to bathe in plain water, as Birdmom4ever has already suggested, the oil and powder will eventually be restored.

Garlic capsules, or a cut up clove in their drinking water will also help build up the powder in their feathers.

There are sprays that will kill the pigeon flies as well as mites and lice, but perhaps they are not available to you. Allowing the birds to bathe frequently will keep the number of pigeon flies in control also, and hopefully you can kill the few that might remain.


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## Sumit.Ghosh (Feb 16, 2006)

O thanks! Actually I keep only show pigeons. They don't fly! But I will definately not shampoo them anymore. Thanks to all of you for your replies!


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