# eggs not hatching



## theboss (Nov 29, 2009)

I have 4 pair of racing pigeons. So far this is how it is going.
Pair #1 laid 2 eggs none hatched. Now sitting on 2 new eggs
Pair #2 laid 2 eggs first round 1 hatched. Laid 2 eggs 2nd round 1 hatched
Pair # 3 laid 2 eggs 1 hatched now sitting on 2 eggs
Pair # 4 laid 2 eggs 1 hatched.
I broke one of the unhatched open and their was a baby inside.
This doesn't sound right, what could the problem be?


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

theboss said:


> I have 4 pair of racing pigeons. So far this is how it is going.
> Pair #1 laid 2 eggs none hatched. Now sitting on 2 new eggs
> Pair #2 laid 2 eggs first round 1 hatched. Laid 2 eggs 2nd round 1 hatched
> Pair # 3 laid 2 eggs 1 hatched now sitting on 2 eggs
> ...


I am not saying paratyphoid is your problem but failing to hatch is a major symptom of paratyphoid...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

theboss said:


> I have 4 pair of racing pigeons. So far this is how it is going.
> Pair #1 laid 2 eggs none hatched. Now sitting on 2 new eggs
> Pair #2 laid 2 eggs first round 1 hatched. Laid 2 eggs 2nd round 1 hatched
> Pair # 3 laid 2 eggs 1 hatched now sitting on 2 eggs
> ...


Hopefully they are not genetically related. Usually poor hatching is caused by a disease such as paratyphoid.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Put 3-4 drops of Iodine to a gallon of water.
> Give the hen 1/2 a Calcium Gluconate tablet ever day after she mates until she lays.


Do you have a source of information on the correct dosage of Iodine and the frequency of the usage you can share with us? Is the Calcium Gluconate tablet a human consumption supplement, or is it a specific pigeon supplement? And in any rate where do you get it from and what dosage?

Thanks,

Vahe
FalconLofts.com
Home of rare colored racing homers


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi skytex

Don't get upset I think he is worried about overdose, not for your expertise and knowledge. I have followed many of your post in just the hopes from learning from you. My club members don't help they are intimidated by me. Just want to learn and of course win. I have gotten greater than 75% of my knowledge from guys like you from this forum. So please remember new squabs like me need your help. 

Thanks Doc
Emergency medicine


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

This article may be of some help to you.

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/Dead_in_shell_Pigeon.html


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

boobooo96 said:


> Hi skytex
> 
> Don't get upset I think he is worried about overdose, not for your expertise and knowledge. I have followed many of your post in just the hopes from learning from you. My club members don't help they are intimidated by me. Just want to learn and of course win. I have gotten greater than 75% of my knowledge from guys like you from this forum. So please remember new squabs like me need your help.
> 
> ...


*Put 3-4 drops of Iodine to a gallon of water.
Give the hen 1/2 a Calcium Gluconate tablet ever day after she mates until she lays.*

Skytex has probably forgotten more sources than many on here have even seen or heard. The dose is there. What to use is there and how often is there. I will take the advise of experience over Google any day. But that's just me.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Falcon Lofts-------------
> Here we go Again
> 
> I have been using Iodine & Caccium Gluconate [-I get it at a Drugstore-]for 30-40- years and you want me to give you a "SOURCE" for Information??????
> ...


I dont understand why you took it offensively Sir.
I am the kind that likes to read and learn from, so all I was asking was to find-out if there was perhaps a source (book, or internet article) that you could recommend for my further learning. I have been using Caccium Gluconate in liquid form sold at most pigeon suppliers, you were talking about a "half a tablet", I did some research at the suppliers and could not find Caccium Gluconate in tablet form, so I was asked "Is the Calcium Gluconate tablet a human consumption supplement, or is it a specific pigeon supplement?" (I have no problem with it being a human supplement) "And in any rate where do you get it from and what dosage?" I checked the internet and there seems to be Caccium Gluconate tablets in different potencies, so I wanted to know the potency dosage you were referring to "one half of".
Sorry If you took it personally, no offense intended... 
Vahe


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

There should be nothing wrong with asking the source of information. Scientists do that all the time. It is part of figuring out real facts. It should not be taken personally.

We were not born knowing the dosage.

Iodine deficiency in pregnant human can result in miscarriage:http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/

You can find concentration needed there although only for humans.

Other link that may be useful:http://www.justanswer.com/bird-vet/2lx22-iodine-does-pigeon-need-its-diet.html


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

Mey KeeYaww ya'll know alot yea


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi sky tx

Thank you for your input, wisdom, so if ever I have eggs hatching issues I'll think of your input. Thanks again keep the info coming. 

Boobooo96


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If you don't remember the source, just say so. Don't take it personally. You get offended too easily and keep on deleting your posts. Asking questions were never meant to insult you or your wisdom.

But, yeah, I know what you mean about not remembering stuff. My great grandfather almost killed me once with a bolo knife thinking I was an intruder in the house. He didn't remember me! I probably would have been whacked lots of time if I was not able to run very fast and escaped. Patience, patience, patience....If you whack first before asking questions you might end up hurting someone.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

sky tx said:


> BooBoo-- I will not post more info.
> Let these people learn like I did.
> Give the bird whatever you think will cure the problem--make lots of notes--Bury the bird.
> Move to the next bird with that problem --try something different as the First try did not work.
> ...


Wow, I can see the implied insult there. Many of what I share is either born with facts or something I have tested on my loft. And I look whether other scientists have done the same experiments so that I will know if my data and their data coincides. Facts don't turn facts because I said so! That would be a ridiculous statement. I, in fact, encourage people to think for themselves, test ideas given to them and compare results. Then make proper conclusions. My way is not the only way. In pigeon keeping there are many ways.

With respect to dosage it is important that you get it right. And most likely those dosage rate probably came from a scientific experiments.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

No problem then. We are all good. Apology accepted. Wow! I maybe the first one that you apologized with. That took lots of guts! My great grandfather didn't even apologize for it. He was too proud!


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> RodSD--Your 39 years old.--Wait for 36 more years--that will make 75 years old.
> 
> Then recall or remember this date & time. and remember everthing you heard or learned today. Then you can give a "newbe" where you got your "source".
> My source about Hatching Eggs was given to me by another Flyer who was at least 70 years old 40 years ago.
> ...


Look Skt Tx, 
I already apologized for tickling your ego, I don't know anything about you, but given the anger you have expressed for a SIMPLE question I asked, you certainly have discredited your 75 years of so called wisdom. Before you talk down on people and discriminate due to their age, calling them a "newbe", you should ask yourself "where did I learn what I know", non of us were born knowing everything we know, we learn from each other, we learn from years research done by ourselves, and others, we learn from books and literature. 

If you do not have a source of literature backing up your statements, you can simply say I don't have one, or I don't remember. I was not trying to question your intelligence, or your age. But certainly I'm questioning it now... There have been many intelligent fanciers here and there will be many more to come, but they all have to start somewhere.

If you, in your 75 years of wisdom cannot find it in your heart to be humble and free of ego and anger when someone asks a simple question, then you should not be on this forum, because this place is about fanciers from every walk of life, young, old, wise and "NEWBE".

I am a very respectful person, especially when it comes to the elderly, but you have wore me thin with respect and patients. 

I am sorry that I apologized earlier, I take it back

this is what I said earlier,
"I dont understand why you took it offensively Sir.
I am the kind that likes to read and learn from, so all I was asking was to find-out if there was perhaps a source (book, or internet article) that you could recommend for my further learning. I have been using Caccium Gluconate in liquid form sold at most pigeon suppliers, you were talking about a "half a tablet", I did some research at the suppliers and could not find Caccium Gluconate in tablet form, so I was asked "Is the Calcium Gluconate tablet a human consumption supplement, or is it a specific pigeon supplement?" (I have no problem with it being a human supplement) "And in any rate where do you get it from and what dosage?" I checked the internet and there seems to be Caccium Gluconate tablets in different potencies, so I wanted to know the potency dosage you were referring to "one half of".
Sorry If you took it personally, no offense intended... "

Regards,
Vahe


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

sky don't delete any more posts, I'm sure I missed something.
Dave


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

This is what he posted earlier.

"The calcium Gluconate I used most likely did not help the hen. I just thought it might have helped. "Tums" may work better.
But you asked--I gave an answer you did not care for.
Sorry I did not "DOT" the I's or "CROSS" the T's."


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

sky tx said:


> BooBoo-- I will not post more info.
> Let these people learn like I did.
> Give the bird whatever you think will cure the problem--make lots of notes--Bury the bird.
> Move to the next bird with that problem --try something different as the First try did not work.
> ...


I learned how to "fix" a splayed leg with an experiment. It is nowhere on the Internet. It is simple and requires no binding. You want the source?.... Me.


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi guys

I work in medicine for slightly over 20 yrs, and there are times that I must question medications and doses. Its not to hurt ones feelings its simply to get it right we call it in medicine "DO NO HARM". Sky tex sorry you felt someone was attacking you, but I don't think that was the case. I hope we can focus on the questions posted for all to learn. This has now become something important for me to be a successful racer. I don't get much help from club members cause there to focused on beating me while I don't have a chance cause of lack of knowledge. So here it goes if a hen lays eggs what can be given to her to have the best chance of hatching healthy young ones. What drug & dose is given to the one hen that might help in making eggs viable "without doing any HARM" THANKS GUYS. Hope to continue to get help here on PT.

squab


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Speaking of Tums,could you spare a couple? This post is giving me heartburn.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

There we go... very nicely said booboo, 
let me illustrate a simple example;
lets say you have an upper respiratory infection, you go see your Dr., he writes on a peace of paper 1/2 a tablet of Amoxicillin, and hands it to you. Wouldn't you say, "wait a minute is this 1/2 a tablet of Amoxi 250/ 500/ or 875"?
wouldn't you ask "How often should I take this 1/2 of a tablet of unknown dosage"?

Now, I'm not a spring chicken to Calcium Gluconate, I know you cannot do harm (relatively speaking) with over dosage of calcium. But Iodine is a different story, "3 drops to a gallon of water", is this dosage given 7 days a week, once a week, before the breeding season starts, or until the hen lays?

I don't understand why clarification of a simple matter can be so wrong.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

They make a egg dip for chickens, I will look it up again. If I remember close to right you cann feed it to (chicken hens) and dip thier eggs in it. Too help hatch rate. May not even help pigeons???


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks for everyones post & replys. I have done in the medical field just about every procedure, and have saved many lives. I now found myself racing birds for fun and enjoyment. It's sad for me to say it's not. Knowledge is learned by those that have proven results. I can't learn from my club members cause I'm just in there way of winning. I settled twenty YB around my loft. I lost five all my birds they all have money bands. I overheard members say those are culled birds I won't have to race againts. It crushed my heart to know because of its band it will be killed. This is the side of the sport that's ugly. So sad I wished I never let them out. I hope to continue to learn the good and the bad of racing pigeons


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

The "culled" reference may not mean "we killed it" as much as birds that are no longer in the race. Keep in mind the racing is about the birds finding their way home. A bird that doesn't do that doesn't belong "in" a racing loft. That means it is a "cull". A cull may simply mean moved into the house as a pet, it may have simply wondered off on its own, it may have trapped in a different loft. 

There are lots of ways to cull without lethal measures.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Reading how many hatched and didnt. Several things could be the problem. from paratiphoid to the birds being younger breeders. If a sickness as paratphoid or even cocdi, Treatment can be helpful. Easy old treatment SULMET which can be bought local Does not need to be ordered. This to is a part of prebreeding treatments. As some say they do not do. But many do. Iodine was at one thought to help the birds fertile eggs better. As the calcium for good egg and hen health. Iodine Is not much a need as thought. Vitimans have several good sources to help. PLAIN ploutry vitimans will help about as good and better as pigeon vitimans you can buy. RED CELL helps VITIMAN E helps put the birds towards breeding Kid of extra energy and the want to breed. Giving all hens oyster shell tabs helps the hens get ready. . If a person has birds that carry paratiphoid And it shows in the death in the egg and early youngbird loses. The birds must be treated And watched as it crops up from time to time in old birds that carry it. Breeding it out takes time. Chilled eggs, crowded breeding loft, where open breeding is done. First round breeders. , Cock not hitting both eggs. Hens that are fast layers, Mice in the loft causing hens to get off the nest at night. Treat your birds, give vitimans. Good grit hens oyster shell tabs. ACV. red cell And then you have covered your possibles. HAVE the young birds that did hatch live. are they growing fine. IF so next round may be better. But agin breeding season starts months before a person puts the birds together. Good moult. meds IF used. worming PAIR selection In mind and on paper. Treating the hens with extra calcium. And so forth. Then breeding season gets there you are ready the birds are ready the rest is natures.


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Jaysen

Thank you for your your reply, I now understand the terminology "cull" so there may be a chance after the race date the birds show up for sale at shops. That makes me feel better in mind and spirit they are alive. Thanks.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Sky,
I don't experiment with chemical additives just to amuse an old time's fairy tails!
Not at the cost of my birds well being! You got good wisdom? share it with details, or be prepared to provide details when someone humble asks for more.
You are clearly very stubborn and you EGO is VERY hurt!
It seems like the more you write the more you discredit your knowledge, So keep it up...


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

As long as you don't go back and erase your posts out of embarrassment!
I'm OK with writing more...


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Its truly a shame that this forum has to come to this kind of word exchange!


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

My sincere apologies to other members following this link.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

The common way that iodine is dosed is by using iodized salt to lightly salt the pigeon grit which then provides not only a source of salt, but a source of iodine...

Dr. Marx also says iodine deficiencies are uncommon...

The above info is from the book, A Veterinary Approach to Pigeon Health by Dr. David Marx. DVM


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you Char,
now that's solid information! you can also get Iodine from supplements like WinsMore, commonly used in the fancy.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

This paper shows that adding riboflavin and B(12) increases squab numbers by increasing hatchability:http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/repositoryfiles/ca705p14-71829.pdf

They add 1 milligram per pound for riboflavin and 3.44 micrograms per pound to the feed. Vitamin A and D didn't do anything.

Take it for what it is. Experiment with yours as well. My feed has vitamins/minerals already so I can't verify the experiment myself.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Cull in pigeon racing could be define as rejects or those birds that are not really good. Don't get one!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Iodine drops was used by many back in the day. 1960s and early 1970s. Used it myself. Was told it would help in the breeding and fertiling the eggs. BUT do not if it did. TODAY most source would be Pigeon grit the red grit Mineral grit. Vitimans feed additives NO NEED to put salt on the feed. red cell. horse mineral Poultry vitimans The list goes on. Poultry vit. have a lot of needed things that work well on the birds SELL for a fraction of odered so called pigeon vitimans. More people today use ACV. More people today keep grit in front of the birds. Birds are better fed instead of dumping alot of feed where they can eat and then eat dirty feed and rodent soiled feed. Loft management has improved bu most from the 1940s 50s 60s . We do know more on improving the birds. Many breeds have gone so much forward from those early days Race birds Well to a degree. As many old race lines I would say could still cut the mustard in todays races even though some do not think so.Breeding starts months before the birds are pout together. I think some may still use iodine Just like some still dust there birds Where others dip or spray. After I found out about dipping the birds I found it fast easy and better results in I guess what i am saying we all have an idea that works for us but sometimes a better one comes along. AND we learn something new. The thread was about birds not hatching Next round will show if the problem is still there Now is the time to treat and improve Then hope for the best.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

RodSD said:


> Cull in pigeon racing could be define as rejects or those birds that are not really good. Don't get one!


EVERY bird sold or given away IS a cull. Even the best bird in your loft some day should be a cull. That is how lofts go forward. Some see a cull as junk only And some are. But selection means you select what you keep And when you have better then your best now in the future that best becomes that cull Just letting the basket cull You still find you need to select. Just like your best race bird might not be your best breeder bird


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## boobooo96 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks re lee

For guiding this thread on egg hatching issues. I was the one that started the cull, just getting the word define by those that know best. I was told that my YB's lost would be culled cause they had money bands on them. I guess if the birds are trapped by someone else they may or may not return it to it's owner? Your last post was right to the point. Thank you


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

re lee said:


> EVERY bird sold or given away IS a cull. Even the best bird in your loft some day should be a cull. That is how lofts go forward. Some see a cull as junk only And some are. But selection means you select what you keep And when you have better then your best now in the future that best becomes that cull Just letting the basket cull You still find you need to select. Just like your best race bird might not be your best breeder bird


Here is a nice video that shows what you are talking about. Not many could even afford these birds and they certainly aren't "junk birds". Everyone have a nice one.

http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticl...al-vele-jaren-garant-voor-duivensport-op-het-


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