# Blue



## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

Like ash red, how do you know if a blue pigeon carries red (or brown), visually?

AND, is it normal for blue pigeons to get a "better" color of feathers after moulting? EX: One of my blue bar's "baby" color was blue-grey and now (after his first moult), he is a bright blue. He looks very good now compared to his other color..


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

I thought you watched my video? Blue's can not carry ash red because ash red is dominate. So if they have both genes then it would be an ash red carrying blue. Which flecks as you seem to know. If a blue carries brown you do not know unless you breed it 50% of his hens would be brown.
Yes I have seen my blues get brighter after the first molt. Some genes on pigeons will change with every molt others not hardly at all if at all.

Video on base colors
Video on ash red's flecking

I am not saying this to offfend you but you have been coming into the genetics section for sometime now and seem to want to know a lot about it but still ask rather basic questions. I don't think you have given yourself a decent attempt at actually learning the system or way in which genes work.
I recommend researching genetics as there are multiple sites on it. Here are some:

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/
Here is a notebook from an old time genetict which can be downloaded.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/rhuntley/quinn.pdf
http://www.mumtazticloft.com/PigeonGenetics.asp
https://sites.google.com/site/colourhomers/
This page is in German but google can translate that.
http://www.taubensell.de/


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

AZCorbin said:


> *I thought you watched my video*? Blue's can not carry ash red because ash red is dominate. So if they have both genes then it would be an ash red carrying blue. Which flecks as you seem to know. If a blue carries brown you do not know unless you breed it 50% of his hens would be brown.
> Yes I have seen my blues get brighter after the first molt. Some genes on pigeons will change with every molt others not hardly at all if at all.
> 
> Video on base colors
> ...




What the??? This is not helpful Corbin, He probably has watched your video but just because you speak something at someone does not mean it will sink in, If I am honest, Some parts of your wording confused me even though I knew what you were trying to put across.

If Tyson wants to keep asking basic question until they sink in, good on him, If you don't wanna help, Don't help but how about you don't make statements implying people are not learning fast enough or have not given it a decent attempt, Learning is a process, We all learn differently.


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

delete please


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> What the??? This is not helpful Corbin, He probably has watched your video but just because you speak something at someone does not mean it will sink in, If I am honest, Some parts of your wording confused me even though I knew what you were trying to put across.
> 
> If Tyson wants to keep asking basic question until they sink in, good on him, If you don't wanna help, Don't help but how about you don't make statements implying people are not learning fast enough or have not given it a decent attempt, Learning is a process, We all learn differently.


Evan I think your post is a little misguided. 
Most of the genetic questions in here are people giving answers and not explaining anything at all.
Simply naming genotypes and not a mention of how these genes are inheirted and how the system works. This is not helpful.

And you accuse me of not helping? Not only did I give him the answer in this thread in writing and other threads. I made a video explaining it, and you have the nerve to say I don't want to help? Then on top of those two, three things. I gave links to several genetic sites so he can get a good understanding of genetics.

What did you do to help? Critising my response doesn't add to the subject of this thread at all?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You have covered everything so there was no need to give him more info, I was saying the parts in bold where not helpful.

It was quite clear when you and Logan came back you were here to give better more full answers than all us others that this forum is full of giving answers which don't help..., as I said to Logan yesterday, that is great, you guys are welcome to do that. 

Some beginners however want to hear simple sentences without pages and pages of quotes, links and reading to get a grasp on genetics without getting into all the nit and gritty stuff.

So your posts have their place but don't criticise others who jump on and give simple explanations for those who want to learn. 

I still stand by what I said, you have no right to comment on some ones learning progression or style.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

by the way, I have helped Tyson heaps, I think he is doing well and I prefer to stay encouraging.


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> You have covered everything so there was no need to give him more info, I was saying the parts in bold where not helpful.
> 
> It was quite clear when you and Logan came back you were here to give better more full answers than all us others that this forum is full of giving answers which don't help..., as I said to Logan yesterday, that is great, you guys are welcome to do that.
> 
> ...


If we are giving "better more full answers" as you said, than what is the problem? You somehow say that like it's a bad thing?

Evan I explain things very simply, I don't just label them and leave it at that. I provide links to let people know that what I say is not just my opinion alone, but is rather backed up in the scientific genetic community as well.
This is a bad thing?

"So your posts have their place but don't criticise others who jump on and give simple explanations for those who want to learn."

I will use that quote for my reply to it.

When did I ever critisize you?

I have no right to comment, but you do? How do lay this claim?


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## Crazybird (Jul 13, 2013)

I kind agree with NZ on this one. Is unfair to assume that someone hasn't given it a decent attempt because they ask what seems to you a basic question. I have followed some of the genetic threads and read some on Ron Huntleys site. To say the least I don't follow much of it right now. I would hate to be criticized for asking a (basic question). Its great that your posting videos for us who don't understand it all right now but your probably going to get some questions that seem like the answer should be obvious now and then. Just don't think we should discourage sometime from asking questions no matter how basic they seem


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I never said it was a bad thing, I said they have their place but sometimes some people want to hear something in simple terms, not terms used by the scientific genetic community. 

I also never said you criticised me but you did make reference to "how full" this forum was of people jumping on giving one sentence answers or something to that effect so that is why I am explaining to you why we sometimes do it, Becky does sometimes and we all know she understands the science behind it, I do too but like to keep things simple to give people a base understanding, if they want to expand that they can use google.

I am done talking to you now Corbin, you constantly put words in my mouth.


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

Crazybird said:


> I kind agree with NZ on this one. Is unfair to assume that someone hasn't given it a decent attempt because they ask what seems to you a basic question. I have followed some of the genetic threads and read some on Ron Huntleys site. To say the least I don't follow much of it right now. I would hate to be criticized for asking a (basic question). Its great that your posting videos for us who don't understand it all right now but your probably going to get some questions that seem like the answer should be obvious now and then. Just don't think we should discourage sometime from asking questions no matter how basic they seem


I understand what your saying but I don't see it the same way. He had already watched the video before hand. So to come ask the forum a question when the links are out there is not neccesary. I stated my opinion to him and if may appear "cold" but all this infomation is out there. Again I provided the answer as well and links.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Have you ever thought about being a teacher?????? (Rhetorical question)


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

No hard feelings from me, but I did watch your videos twice and I did read some pigeon genetic websites before asking (http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/ and http://mumtazticloft.com/PigeonGenetics.asp).


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> by the way, *I have helped Tyson heaps*, I think he is doing well and I prefer to stay encouraging.


Very true, almost every genetic question (and other pigeon related questions) that I ask is usually answered by NZ Pigeon first and than others..


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks Tyson, We all help in our own ways, I could get all technical on you but that would just boggle your mind at this stage so I try keep it simple for intellectual purposes.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Corbin, Evan - this is the second thread that I have read tonight where you two have gone head to head. At some point you both should learn that you just need to agree to disagree. Open discussion is always welcomed here, but you two going at each other does not lend itself to an" open discussion" where others feel that they can join in the conversation. As intertaining as some might find your written sparring, others may be scared off for fear that they might be dragged into your verbal wars. 

Also, this forum is all about helping others to learn about, and enjoy, our favorite birds. Chastising someone for asking a question is not allowing members to learn. There is no such thing as stupid questions, just dumb answers. We need to remember that we were ALL newbies at one point. I wonder how many questionable questions were asked by any of us when were were new or wishing to learn something new about a different aspect of the hobby. Even the not so new to pigeons will have questions as they wish to gain more experience.

Please be careful about how others are perceiving each of you going forward.


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