# Racing Feral Pigeons?



## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Has anyone every raced a feral pigeon?

I have several rescued feral pigeons that live in my loft with my fancy pigeons.

I keep reading that feral pigeons can not be raced as they lack the speed and homing instinct of the pedigree homing pigeons.

But I can't find any evidence that this is true!!!! I can't find anyone that has even tried to race a feral pigeon, or the offspring of a feral pair.

Maybe they are better than the expensive homing pigeons? They are lighter, more agile, and they must be more hardy and resistant to diseases and they are very tough. 

I can't believe they don't have homing instinct.....as I tried to release a young pair into the flock in the city centre......about one hour drive from my house.......and they got back to the loft before I got home after my shopping!!!

So... has anyone every experimented and flow a former feral pigeon? 

If they turn out to be good at racing, then the breeders of the expensive pedigree pigeons are not going to make so much money....perhaps that is why they do not even entertain the idea of trying the feral birds out?


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

Breed a few and try it. I just have some homers to watch fly but I can tell you they are stronger looking in the air then any of the ferals I see fly by. I think comparing feral pigeons to racing homers is a little like saying a mix breed horse can run with a thoroughbred. Yeah they might have many of the same traits but there is a lot to be said for being breed purely for speed.

I don't know for sure as I'm pretty new to pigeons but every other animal I've been around it is always best to get the breed that matches what you want it to do.

Tim


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

All pigeons have the homing instinct. For some it is stronger than others.

Those (probably feral originally) pigeons that proved to have the strongest homing insinct were bred together producing a more and more exagerated homing instinct.

Then from those homers, they identified that some were faster than other, and bred those together to get faster and faster potential in birds. And this has changed their body shape. Racers are very powerfully built as they are long distance marathon runners.

So you see, not all homers are considered racers, because it depends on how quickly there instincts tell them they need to fly back.

And understand that MANY MANY racer pigeons bred from racing stock FAIL to become champion racers or even good homers. Many young birds are lost in the first few flights, those who come back and those who come back fast are simply displaying the stronger instinct.

So you might have a feral that is good at finding its way home. You might have a feral that is particularly fast. It MIGHT even pass on SOME of those traits to SOME of its young. But I very much doubt you will get a winning flock. You will start selecting yourself the faster birds and breed them together, and lo and behold you are starting the process of creating the racing pigeon all over again.

As for their health; are the ferals you have literally wild? As in caught as adults/young birds or were they bred in your loft from other wild birds?

Don't forget, we see ferals as being tough because they are the survivors. You do not see the sickly more fragile ferals because they would not have survived to adulthood. Their exposure to more disease and germs does mean adults pass on more antibodies to their young than many domestic pigeons, esp in over cleaned lofts. But I do not believe that it is in their blood to be healthier and tougher. I do not believe that their vigour will breed true, as it is not based in genetics but exposure.

A lost racing pigeon that has survived in the wild and produced young in the wild will be just as resiliant as a feral and a feral brought up in a clean loft and suddenly exposed to the outside will be just as likely to get sick.


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## lordcornwallis (May 2, 2010)

remember reading a book by Alf baker, a chapter called what price pedigree, a fanciers wife found a young feral pigeon under a bridge that had fell out the nest . she took it home to her husband a racing pigeon fancier who kept it , when he went to pair up he was a hen short so he paird the feral to one of his cocks and one of the pigeons they bred finished very high in the london north road combine....


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Back in the 60's we had a young farel that came to the loft we sent it on all the training tosses with the rest of the birds. Back then the first race was 50 miles and they all laughed at us sending a commie with the racers, it won the race then we lost it on the 100 mile race. So they can home and I'm sure it was just a fluke that it won, but it did.
Dave


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Feral pigeons are not of a specific breed So even if it worked for someone you can't be so sure, last year I and my friend caught a very wild pigeon we bred him with a racing hen and we got 3 pigeons out of two clutchs from them, in appearance they look very close to the feral type, we tested them on different tosses they were slightly less fast and agile than the others but they did well, Ironically I lost one due to hawk attack the two others are in my friend's loft .


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Keep in mind that many of the feral pigeons you see are descendants of people's pets, many of them being racing pigeons. So you may come across a feral whose blood has not been diluted by inferior feral pigeons yet. However, since there is no control over breeding that racing blood is lost over time and you are left with just low homing ability pigeons. 

Like mentioned, you could breed ferals and do selective breeding so that their homing ability becomes better and better but then what is the difference between that bird and a racing pigeon?

Out of 100 times, a racing pigeon will beat a feral in a majority of the time, maybe even 99 times, while a feral may beat a racing pigeon just 1/100. 

Also keep in mind that a good pigeon and a "bad" pigeon eat the same amount of food. So personally, I'd take my chances in a racing pigeon winning a race than a feral. Although it is possible for a feral to win, it just isn't plausible to experiment with them when you are spending so much time on feed, training, and racing.


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## lordcornwallis (May 2, 2010)

i knew a top widowhood fancier who claimed he could win a race up to 100 mile with any pigeon including a feral pigeon !


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

It's hard to say "any pigeon" especially the fancy types ..


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## lordcornwallis (May 2, 2010)

sorry i meant racer or feral...


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Crazy Pete said:


> Back in the 60's we had a young farel that came to the loft we sent it on all the training tosses with the rest of the birds. Back then the first race was 50 miles and they all laughed at us sending a commie with the racers, it won the race then we lost it on the 100 mile race. So they can home and I'm sure it was just a fluke that it won, but it did.
> Dave


Partly fluke maybe but the bird had to be with the leading pack to win the race, Well if the break point is fair anyway.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

lordcornwallis said:


> i knew a top widowhood fancier who claimed he could win a race up to 100 mile with any pigeon including a feral pigeon !


haha, wonder how he would get on with a Modena? or fantail?


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## lordcornwallis (May 2, 2010)

a fantail could win in a tail wind ! LOL


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

haha, and a Modena in a running race.


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

I like to compare pigeons to dogs when someone asks what the difference is. All dogs originally came from the wolf which have derived down into many different breeds of dogs. All pigeons originally came from the dove which have derived into many different types. Some dogs were bred for hunting(Labs retrievers,ect.) Some dogs bred for work(border collies, hushies, ect.). And then you have your mutts which are good dogs but they wouldn' t be good for hunting or pulling dog sleds in the north pole or herding livestock. You couldn't train a chiwhowa (spelling off) to be a police dog or to retrieve ducks from a pond. Or you wouldn't use a bulldog in a dog race. Same goes for pigeons.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

hey revolution loft I like what you said ......" keep in mind that a good pigeon and a "bad" pigeon eat the same amount of food"


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Jason Heidlauf said:


> hey revolution loft I like what you said ......" keep in mind that a good pigeon and a "bad" pigeon eat the same amount of food"


Its what I always tell myself! Do not go for quantity, go for quality. Sure have lots of pigeons, but make sure they have positive results behind them that are still keeping them in your loft. Thinking simply, the type of birds you have now will dictate where your loft is headed in the future. Bad birds will produce bad birds, good birds will generally produce better birds.

I'm not saying birds are bad. I'm just saying they are not what you are attempting to get out of them.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

jak2002003 said:


> Has anyone every raced a feral pigeon?
> 
> I have several rescued feral pigeons that live in my loft with my fancy pigeons.
> 
> ...


Hi Jak,
What sort of ferals do you have there in your country?
Here we have INDIAN GOLA pigeons(google it) living as ferals. They are very good homers,do great speeds, better than homers but the hard part is taming them. Not one but numerous times,I've tried them but this taming problem became an issue. They like to live freely. If we keep them in an open loft system then they love to live in your loft,but just don't like to be touched unless they'll leave.

Here GOLA pigeons have been paired with homers in the past and results were a success. I've tried them many times when I had homers. They are usually paired with a gentle bird because they are very impetuous. They are paired for their strong homing instincts, endurance and top notch speed.
Infact many sudbreeds have originated from their cross breeding with other flying breeds. Google or youtube it,you'll find some.
If one can cultivate what he wants then indian gola ferals can be used...


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

> The Indian Gola is a small pigeon that looks similar to dragoon pigeons. This pigeon has red eyes, and is a bird of speed and endurance. They have an average speed of 65-70 mph, and can fly more than 10–11 hours without stopping. It is a homing pigeon with a very good homing instinct, but cannot be used for racing because the adults cannot be trained. These pigeons always move freely; the only way to train them is by bringing them when they are 10–12 days old, and feeding them by hand. Once they grow up and know their loft properly, they will try their level-best to return to their loft.


Wikipedia
tha author says " *but cannot be used for racing because the adults cannot be trained*." .... and then : "*Once they grow up and know their loft properly, they will try their level-best to return to their loft.*" ??

I don't get it .. If they are able to return home why not race them? If as he says are better than homers?

and I didn't find any pictures of them, but I still remember what they look like from a thread by an indian individual ...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Abdul Bakiel,
The authur is correct. If one captures the adults and bring them to loft,they never get comfortable with people. They love to live freely. They don't eat and die of starvation or shock. So adults can't be raced.
But if we raise them from eggs/squabs, then they home back at great speed better than racing homers but problem is that they are not comfortable with humans. They abandon their eggs/squabs when touched by humans even if they are hand raised. If we touch them or their pen/nest they never come back when let out of the loft. Before racing we need to take them to club and handle them,this they don't like and they don't want to enter the loft and touched again. One can't win the race if the pigeon don't enter the loft and time isn't locked. So they when they return from race they don't enter the loft and lot of time is wasted so they can't be raced.
Another thing is that if they are not paired, they elope with wild gola pigeons. Once they spend a night or two outside the loft,they never wanna come in again. They are very intelligent.
So they can be paired with other homers pigeons for their amazing speed,marthon flying and endurance to derive out more refined homers but its not easy to cultivate what you desire. As one offspring out of 5-8 comes out with the traits you want and he/she may not give those traits to his/her offsprings again.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jak2002003 said:


> Has anyone every raced a feral pigeon?
> 
> I have several rescued feral pigeons that live in my loft with my fancy pigeons.
> 
> ...


 the bird/s have to be homed to the loft and banded to race in a club so the "feral" would have to be hatched in someones loft so that does not make him feral any longer as he is not out fending for himself. "feral - existing in a wild or untamed state."

so bascally one would be using breeders that came from hap hazard breeding in a feral state and try out their young birds for racing. 

I would say it would take allot of years and per chance if lucky, you may come across one of their young that could at least be ok.

on the other hand,

while breeding the homing/racing pigeon and trying to get young birds that race well , well it probably won't take you long at all, as you see they already have been bred to be better than any other pigeon in the world to come home. so what this means is competing with birds from feral parents or once were feral parents and not knowing what kind of back ground the genetics is, your wasting your time, esp when homing pigeons were bred to do just as you wish from the beginning.


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## lordcornwallis (May 2, 2010)

wise words but people like to experiment...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Don't why people forget that all the different pigeons that we have today are actually results of experiments


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

I think its fine and fun to experiment, but I think the general agreement here is that if you want to win races getting a loft full of ferals will be a waste of time, because by the time you find and breed the right bloodlines (whatever you breed them from/mix in) it will be years and years

So if you want to RACE now, or in the near future, stick to racers


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Brocky we all agree that nowaday homers are result of different breeds but what we're trying to say is that professional breeders have already done the job to develop such a breed with all the characteristics ... 

so you can try but there's a huge possibility that you're going to to give up half the way or develop a poor quality birds otherwise it's just a waste of time because feral pigeons are not a specific breed you can go with, you are just opening all the doors and combinating every possibilty which will take years of work ... I don't get the funny part of this ..

I was catching and breeding ferals too, most of them are wild and afraid of people and they have no specific features to go with, you'll end up with a mixed loft and big expenses. the point is as already being said, racers and ferals eat the same amount of food but there is a huge difference between their performance


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Well professional are still working on homers. To make them fly higher when they come back from races...
This development is endless if one is working in right direction. It sure takes time but that's how you do it...

It almost took 6 years or more for me and my fancier friend to develop big charts and stuff to derive out what we have now,three different bloodlines of highflyers for different climates.
And still there's no stoping,we are trying to do away with some undesirable traits....


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

yes, this is what breeding pigeons is about ... developping your PUREBRED good quality birds, as for ferals it's not the same .. but it's up to the breeders to decide ...


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

*lots of replies*

Thank you everyone for the interesting posts you have all made. I have read everything with much thought.

I have been to see a few lofts of racing pigeons, and they are much bigger and more muscly than the feral birds in the street... the cocks also have much bigger wattles on their beaks and bigger heads.

I personally think that a feral pigeon, raised in a loft from a chick, fed a high quality food, and trained the same as a homing pigeon, and then raced, will home back to the loft just as well as a racing pigeon. 

 I DON'T think the racing pigeons have better homing instincts, but I DO think they will be faster as they have much more muscle power!

However, they are also much heavier then the feral birds. Perhaps the extra weight will cause a slight disadvantage against the feral pigeon over short distances. 

In long races I think the purebred homing pigeons will always come back faster. Their muscle mass and strength will give them more stamina.

But the difference between a healthy feral pigeon, and a 'run of the mill' homing pigeon will not be great over shorter races. That's why I would rather start with free birds to get some experience racing, before paying out hundreds of dollars for a pure breed bird that is going to be average in its racing performance.

I found this nest post very helpful:



beatlemike said:


> I like to compare pigeons to dogs when someone asks what the difference is. All dogs originally came from the wolf which have derived down into many different breeds of dogs. All pigeons originally came from the dove which have derived into many different types. Some dogs were bred for hunting(Labs retrievers,ect.) Some dogs bred for work(border collies, hushies, ect.). And then you have your mutts which are good dogs but they wouldn' t be good for hunting or pulling dog sleds in the north pole or herding livestock. You couldn't train a chiwhowa (spelling off) to be a police dog or to retrieve ducks from a pond. Or you wouldn't use a bulldog in a dog race. Same goes for pigeons.


However I do disagree slightly about the training thing. Even the Chihuahua got can be trained to retrieve ducks from a pond, go hunting, or act like a police dog. But it will not be a good as the proper breed for the task. 

*The difference between a racing pigeon and a feral pigeon in terms of shape, size and behavior is tiny. The difference between a Chihuahua and a German Shepherd is massive in comparison!!!*

Anyone who is seriously interested an racing homing pigeons should buy proper homing pigeons. 

But anyone who just wants to try it out for fun, or just to see if they will like the sport, could start with a few feral birds first. And they may get lucky and have a surprise win 

Just for fun... I wonder if I can enter a duck in a racing pigeon even? (joking). 
Speed Record - 
The fastest duck ever recorded was a red-breasted merganser that attained a top airspeed of 100 mph while being pursued by an airplane.

Budgies are natural aerobats and fly at speeds of up to 70mph!

Talk about a long flight. The Alpine swift (Tachymarptis melba) can remain on the wing for more than 6 months, and they can reach 220 km/h

The northern wheatear is a 25-gram songbird which breeds in Nunavut and Alaska, then migrates thousands of kilometres to Africa for winter. They even locate the same area to nest each breeding season.


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

yes ferals can be used for racing..i have raced ferals to see what they can achive and here are some results.
blue bar hen raced at 90km distance....speed was 1875mpm
blue bar cock 1640mps 90km distance
and my best ferals speed was 2020mpm also at 90km distance black check hen..
i have 40 birds and they are all from feral town pigeons blood.i started with 6 birds and these results are from birds i bred from the original ferals.
even my pure races cant do the speed that my black check hen can do at 2020mpm.
my conclusion is yes they can be used for racing..anyway,thats what i found.
will be trying them at 500km distance shortly..see what they can do.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

*thanks*



pigeon-au said:


> yes ferals can be used for racing..i have raced ferals to see what they can achive and here are some results.
> blue bar hen raced at 90km distance....speed was 1875mpm
> blue bar cock 1640mps 90km distance
> and my best ferals speed was 2020mpm also at 90km distance black check hen..
> ...


That is very interesting! Thank you for that. It helped confirm my personal opinion. 

I was often told that feral pigeons had no great homing instinct.. yet, when I have rescued / hand reared feral pigeons and then released them (often many miles away from my home) many returned... I even had one beat me back home!!!

I think that their smaller size and light build would make them more streamlined... rather like racing bikes... where its the thinner, lighter people who will win!

Also, I think that the prices of a pure breed racing pigeon can be crazy high. But, if people are willing to spend the money then that's up to them.

But I think the expense can put many people off the hobby.. and we want to increase it! Having people laugh at put you down for entering 'pigeon 'mutts' is not right. 

I would advise anyone that wants to 'dip their toe' into the racing pigeon sport.. not to spend thousands on expensive birds. Rather get some cheaper racing birds from a local fancier. Then develop their stock - selecting the best birds... and there would be no harm using some feral blood also if they wanted to try it.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Homers have bulkier bodies which help them fly strong during long runnings. They have more muscles and fat reserves to endure high speed runnings over hundreds of miles.

Their heavy bodies help to fight the air currents and also give them more momentum to run rather fly with wind currents. The heavier bodies would streamline through air. A lighter bird wouldn't have this advantage.

Their broader chests gives aerodynamic advantage and also broader chest with bigger lungs help them to breathe in more oxygen mixing with fuel turning into more energy for long flights.

I appreciate your move to experiment with ferals Jak,pls post back the results.


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

here in town there is a feed store that traps pigeons and sells them.in the pen there are birds with bands and race bands what if you got these birds and bred them because they did not make it home is that a reason not to breed there are so many reason bird doesn't make beside just not finding home.another thing I ponder why go over seas to buy raceing stock when supposedly every year for the past years the best were bought


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

This little tidbit is from the University of Utah pigeon genome project.



> As for the idea that free-living pigeons descended from escaped racing pigeons, Shapiro says his 2012 study was based on "relatively few genetic markers scattered throughout the genome. We now have stronger evidence based on 1.5 million markers, confirming the previous result with much better data."
> 
> The scientists analyzed partial genomes of two feral pigeons: one from a U.S. Interstate-15 overpass in the Salt Lake Valley, and the other from Lake Anna in Virginia.
> 
> ...


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

As with ferals And as with loft birds. LEFT to there own all pigeons will revert back to the wild state . Meaning they will over time look just like the wild pigeon.. Far as racing ferals. Well sure you can. Will results be good. I do not think so. As they will not be consistant. Far as speed. The race birds have a base speed of 45 miles per hour. Then you have tail wind head winds no winds. all this effects speed. A post say they had ferals making ovewr 2000 yards per mintue. May be true. BUT it had to have a good tail wind. AndFerals have showed they can gewt home from up to 150 miles. But many MOST will not get home from 50 miles. Sure selcetion is the key. BUt it takes years of selection to make even race birds Good so it would take years to cultivate ferals.. Why do that when you can take an easyer route. Yes anybody can do anything with there Idea. And if making a feral bred race bird is the idea. enjoy the time it will take to see true lasting results


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

loftkeeper said:


> here in town there is a feed store that traps pigeons and sells them.in the pen there are birds with bands and race bands what if you got these birds and bred them because they did not make it home is that a reason not to breed there are so many reason bird doesn't make beside just not finding home.another thing I ponder why go over seas to buy raceing stock when supposedly every year for the past years the best were bought


Yes if you see banded pigeons they might be lost ones. But why they got lost would be important. If they were lost because of their inferior homing skills or speed then...you know the answer. Only way to know is to test them and training plays an important role. Some people take their youngbirds so far away from loft when they've homed from only few miles,in order to check their quality which isn't the best thing for me to do with them. If you get such a bird who got lost because of lack of proper training then you can do with him.
But you have to keep them and breed them with superior bloodline homers to experiment their young. As far as I can tell every bird has/may have some or one good/desirable trait in it. So you can cultivate that one and without spending hundreds of dollars you can have winners if you know how to work on them.
But again as re lee says why the long drive when you can have a short cut. I don't mean you should stop your experiment with ferals


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

re lee said:


> As with ferals And as with loft birds. LEFT to there own all pigeons will revert back to the wild state . Meaning they will over time look just like the wild pigeon.. Far as racing ferals. Well sure you can. Will results be good. I do not think so. As they will not be consistant. Far as speed. The race birds have a base speed of 45 miles per hour. Then you have tail wind head winds no winds. all this effects speed. A post say they had ferals making ovewr 2000 yards per mintue. May be true. BUT it had to have a good tail wind. AndFerals have showed they can gewt home from up to 150 miles. But many MOST will not get home from 50 miles. Sure selcetion is the key. BUt it takes years of selection to make even race birds Good so it would take years to cultivate ferals.. Why do that when you can take an easyer route. Yes anybody can do anything with there Idea. And if making a feral bred race bird is the idea. enjoy the time it will take to see true lasting results


hello, this feral pigeon speed is very true as i have stated.2020 metres per minute is what i clocked ..they were tossed along with pure racers at 90km..no ground wind noted for the entier race.to be honest i dont know if they go so high up that they catch wind currents and use to their advantage??..but they were released in no ground wind ..
hoping to take them (ferals and pure races) south at a distance of 500km..be interesting to see if they can perform just as well..cant wait..cheers.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

pigeon-au said:


> hello, this feral pigeon speed is very true as i have stated.2020 metres per minute is what i clocked ..they were tossed along with pure racers at 90km..no ground wind noted for the entier race.to be honest i dont know if they go so high up that they catch wind currents and use to their advantage??..but they were released in no ground wind ..
> hoping to take them (ferals and pure races) south at a distance of 500km..be interesting to see if they can perform just as well..cant wait..cheers.


That may be so. But base speed is near or around 45 mph and wind does increase speed in a tail wind. Several factors happen any time the birds are raced or tossed. Ond=e day a bird may be at one speed the next a different speed.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello.  I think the ferals should be raced against other ferals. 
I am sticking with what i read on the net: the teacher was saying not to breed from stray homing pigeons because of inferiorities. 
I still like looking at ferals because they have many surprizes like how they resemble our domestic pigeons in flight and in color. Thanks.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have obtained feral eggs and placed them under homers in my loft and let the homers raise them as their own. Then trained those young birds with my homers. I treated them no differently than I did my homers.

The feral birds turned out very wild in the loft. And I lost them in training, from 7 miles away.

They were trained just like my homers were, and my homers would home from hundreds of miles.

As R Lee stated. Why start with ferals if the goal is to have homers? It would be like trying to invent the wheel, by starting with a square rock.

Start with racing homers and make them even better, SHOULD be the goal.


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

i see some are saying to stick with pure racers..my question is why, when i can get ferals to do better than pures? no harm in experimenting.
i will be giving my ferals a real test in 2 weeks time along with my pure races if weather permits (must be a fine sunny day or they wont go)..
they will all be released at the same time at a distance of 490km straight line / air distance..
watch this space if anyone wants the results..


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Will be waiting for results.
See,racers are cultivated for racing by selective breeding. Fanciers do so much calculations,keep training/race records,select the breeding methods like line or cross etc and then pair suitable birds together to develop stronger homing instinct,speed,stamina,endurance etc. in them. It definitely have an advantage.

But experimenting don't hurt. Maybe you have a good feral blood at hand but with his results all ferals can't be generalised to be as good or better than racing homers


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## badger5149 (Sep 30, 2014)

I dabbled in racing pigeons for sometime but my interest here stems from using pigeons in my dog training programs. Trappers would sell me their wild birds very cheap. I would throw them in a large coup I had and carry them out to the dog training sight on weekends. Most of them would get shot and some would return to the coup. The distance to my primary training spot was 65 miles. Over the years I set aside and banded several birds that caught my interest. One in particular was a white splash bird that had made it back from over 500 miles. I don't know how fast he made it back but he beat me home. I gave him to a friend who was a serious racer and he had some success with it in his breeding program.


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

pigeon-au said:


> i see some are saying to stick with pure racers..my question is why, when i can get ferals to do better than pures? no harm in experimenting.
> i will be giving my ferals a real test in 2 weeks time along with my pure races if weather permits (must be a fine sunny day or they wont go)..
> they will all be released at the same time at a distance of 490km straight line / air distance..
> watch this space if anyone wants the results..


well.....we did a toss of 490km with pure racers mixed in with 4 ferals and results will surprise you..yes,a feral hen came first doing 1600metres per minute.pure racer hen was 2nd at 1200mpm and another feral cock was 3rd at 1150mpm.
will be breeding this 1st hen to my best pure race male and see what i get out of them.will be 12 months time before i find out..go the ferals..


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

well.....we did a toss of 490km with pure racers mixed in with 4 ferals and results will surprise you..yes,a feral hen came first doing 1600metres per minute.pure racer hen was 2nd at 1200mpm and another feral cock was 3rd at 1150mpm.
will be breeding this 1st hen to my best pure race male and see what i get out of them.will be 12 months time before i find out..go the ferals..
Edit/Delete Message


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

LUCKYT said:


> Gee, Feral pigeons are just Homers that have reverted to wild type "Rock Dove"
> The genetics between each flock of Feral Pigeons is different depending on how long ago they started to revert back. MOST have very poor or NO homing instinct depending on the Flock. to say they can match a Homer is silly.
> (unless they are crummy homers).
> between 1979-82 I had a deal to trap feral Pigeons off of the county Building in Waukegan, Illinois.
> ...


you took ferals 60 miles away and 6 out of 200 showed up??
yer well im *N**OT* surprised cause they never were trained..if you know anything about race pigeons you will find ALL race fanciers will train their birds at 1 mile then 2 then 5 then 10 then 50 miles etc etc....if you tossed pure races that were never trained you would most likely get 6 out of 200 to come back from 60 miles as well.
if your a race fancier get yourself some ferals and train them with your pure racers and see the results for yourself.....


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

That's fantastic...
Guess one doesn't have to spend thousands of bucks on buying selectively thorough bred RACERS when ferals can give them run for their money.
I will also catch ferals and try them. I mean those guys who have been making racing blood better for their entire lives shall also give ferals a shot.
Why that guy was ready to pay 80000 US dollars for Taiwan's "Super Warrier"(cock bird)? That guy must be a fool.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

pigeon-au said:


> well.....we did a toss of 490km with pure racers mixed in with 4 ferals and results will surprise you..yes,a feral hen came first doing 1600metres per minute.pure racer hen was 2nd at 1200mpm and another feral cock was 3rd at 1150mpm.
> will be breeding this 1st hen to my best pure race male and see what i get out of them.will be 12 months time before i find out..go the ferals..


I find this very hard to believe. UNLESS the feral flew with the race birds then the race birds set down close to home and the feral just went on. Because with that kind of lead In the feral it is just hard to believe. NOW all pigeons will revert back to a wild type over time If not select bred. But most all ferals have a much shorter homing abilty. 150 miles and less. And when tossed with race birds they often are left well behind Showing a slower speed rate Or endurance point. But I guess anything can happen. But somethings are just hard to believe


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## pigeon-au (Jul 3, 2014)

re lee said:


> I find this very hard to believe. UNLESS the feral flew with the race birds then the race birds set down close to home and the feral just went on. Because with that kind of lead In the feral it is just hard to believe. NOW all pigeons will revert back to a wild type over time If not select bred. But most all ferals have a much shorter homing abilty. 150 miles and less. And when tossed with race birds they often are left well behind Showing a slower speed rate Or endurance point. But I guess anything can happen. But somethings are just hard to believe


what ever..people here wanted to know what the outcome was and now a few here dont like the results...dont ask then..


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Here is the deal, show us the pictures of the Ferals you are using.Their looks can give a clue how far regressed the genetics is. 
There are clear signs of difference in a second gen. escaped Homer and one that is a true regression to a "Rock Dove". Maybe some great flyer around you SUCKS at settling his young Birds?
Ferals are just lost or escaped Homers, tipplers, Rollers ect. it only takes a few Gens. for them to become rock doves again. 
If you are doing short tosses, your Homers are going tripping, while the ferals being less inclined to fly, will go straight Home. making the feral look good.
Unless the Parents of the "Feral" are youngsters from a lost pair of decent homers. they will NOT stand a chance against even an average Bred Homer.


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## badger5149 (Sep 30, 2014)

I recently started feeding a flock of ferals, maybe 4 months ago. I give them regular pigeon food. I am amazed at the weight they put on and the general condition. I had my buddy stop by and he says that many of them are indistinguishable from well bred homers. 
The most notable difference is the amount of time they spend in the air since their diet has improved. They used to stay perched unless they were comming or going, now it is common to see the entire flock high in the air doing big circles. I am tempted to catch a few and try training them.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Selection will happen automatically. Those ferals which don't return from tosses get removed. Better blood stays and gets selected for future generation.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

*hi*

Hello,

I saw this thread... When it first was posted and now it's going for a while...

I can't compare anything since all my birds are basic mutts... Crosses of homers and highfliers... So after reading some posts I feel like I'm the one inbetween.

I obviously don't race my birds but... On a personal level... I do toss them miles away.

If you have seen REPEATEDLY same GOOD results from a feral... That can match up to a racer... Then try it! 

Is it me? Or does anyone have this liking too? I like the phenotypic look of a homer/racing pigeon compared to a feral. the sharp curved beak-head... Looking less like a dove.. I have experimented with crossing homers.. And this feature slowly dies away... If not selectively bred. 

Eep! Got off topic a bit.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Doig said:


> Hello,
> 
> I saw this thread... When it first was posted and now it's going for a while...
> 
> ...


I would be interested to see a good quality racing pigeon and a good quality feral bird of the same colour together.... and see what the actual difference is. I personally can't tell the difference between a wild rock dove and a average size racing pigeon. .. but that's just from photos.. as I don't keep pure racing pigeons.. or pure rock doves for that matter.


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