# Check These Out ..



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

http://www.rims.net/2008Oct14

Any questions .. ask George! 

Terry


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* About a year ago I got from TERRY a very nice looking white hen that had some color in the wing.I thought that I might be able to use it in my saddle program.Because the saddles are homers I have not used her in the saddle program.The reason that I have not is I do not like to cross breed as I feel that, changes the old breeds.Some people will say they cross breed to improve the breed, I happen to believe that cross breeding changes the breed,and I hate to see this as I like most of the different breeds as they are.Having said all that I must say this I enjoy the beauty that the pair have given me and I will there for continue to breed them and will give some away from time to time. * GEORGE


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## saiwa (Sep 5, 2008)

what kind of pigeons are they?


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

george simon said:


> * About a year ago I got from TERRY a very nice looking white hen that had some color in the wing.I thought that I might be able to use it in my saddle program.Because the saddles are homers I have not used her in the saddle program.The reason that I have not is I do not like to cross breed as I feel that, changes the old breeds.Some people will say they cross breed to improve the breed, I happen to believe that cross breeding changes the breed,and I hate to see this as I like most of the different breeds as they are.Having said all that I must say this I enjoy the beauty that the pair have given me and I will there for continue to breed them and will give some away from time to time. * GEORGE


Crossing of breeds, if done carefully and judiciosly can be beneficial for several reasons. If you are using the cross to change or add colors or patterns, crossing may be the easiest or even the ONLY way to accomplish this.

As an example, in standard fantails which is probably one of the most extreme variations from the wild type, or rock dove, the color andalusian did not exist prior to the 1970's. A well known current fantail fancier crossed an andalusian CL tumbler into his fans and within four or five generations was producing andalusians that could compete in the show arena. The Andalusian CL tumbler was, surprise surprise, about six generations away from show racer cross that put andalusian into CL's. 

So, technically, all andalusian fantails are crosses from CL tumblers AND your breed, American Show Racers. 

Cross breeding can be very beneficial to any breed as well, because it adds hybrid vigor as well as the desired trait/color/pattern. BUT, one must be willing to use the very best examples of the breed that these are being introduced into, and tons of patience and time.

The following breeds have been crossed into fantails at one time or another that I know of to get new colors: Archangels, Oriental Frills, CL swallows, CL Tumblers, Modenas, and Branders. I am sure that there are many more as well.

There are living fantail fanciers whose fathers were also fantail fanciers only knew a few colors: White; Black; blue; Red in solid colorss, and saddles as the ONLY other pattern. Now, the breed is a veritable rainbow of colors and several different patterns, with more being added as I write!


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I can remember that myself*

When I was young, there was very little variety available in fantails, as far as color and markings. They were one of my favorite breeds when I was a kid and I had them back in the 60's. I remember when I first saw tail marks and thought they were spectacular. A short time later there were bodymarks.

I remember seeing powder blue in indian fans back around that time and had to have some. Now, I understand that this is just milky factor and has become widespread among american or show fans or whatever it is that they call them these days. Whether they brought it from indians or not, I don't know but it seems like it would have been the shortest road.

Crossbreeding is the only way to bring new color to a breed unless we'd like to wait for a spontaneous mutation and hope it's what we're looking for. You might have to raise a few million birds to get what you want. This is why intuitive breeders have been crossing pigeons to obtain a goal and sometimes stumble onto a new discovery, color or even a new breed.

Bill


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