# First toss down whats the next jump 4 miles or??



## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

I took my birds 4 miles friday afternoon they didnt get home right away actually the first one home was 15 minutes later than pretty much the rest came home later in the day. I think they went routing. I took them saturday morning to the same spot an the beat me home but just flew for about an hour around the loft. Time for the next location should I take them another 4 miles from where i left them or can I take them a little further?

I was planing on doing 4 mile tosses until I got to 20 miles. than jump out 10-15 each time after.....


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I do not race but do train my birds for the area. I do North, West, South, East. I do each area at lease twice before I move on. I start at one mile, then five, ten, fifteen, twenty. twenty-five. After that I just release for exercise anytime I drive somewhere during the week.

Just because how quickly my birds learn the area and return home, for racing, Warren's plan on releasing birds along the racing route sounds like a good idea. Like anything is life each time you do it you find an easier way. I know my birds get faster coming home each time I release them from a certain spot.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

The problem with more than one or two short tosses, is if they are ready they will Trip, on such short distances. I always moved mine up Faster. Train the way you feel is Right, but Training on only the line of flight for racing, Makes for Birds that do not have too think, and end up following. Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Training along the race course is great, but it's better to have more than one release point for each distance, or to try and train in a more fanned out area than just one straight line. That way, as Lucky said, they have to think and exercise those little brain muscles  They also become more familiar with the area they'll be racing, and will probably pick up quicker on where to go. So train a little off to the left, a little off to the right, and a little down the middle, and work your way up.
If you happen to be traveling in another direction, you could take your birds with you as Big T suggested. That'll also give them some mental and physical exercise. But I wouldn't go out of my way to train in the complete opposite direction from the race stations, when I could be taking that time and money to go in the right direction.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I would say they were routing because of the report you give from Saturday mornings release. Moving them out to eight or ten miles would be my next release. As you do start moving them out make sure you have nice weather to give them the best chance to make it home.

Ace


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

To note as well Im releasing them by driving miles. I released them 4 miles driving which probably would be 2 miles air. I was going to do another toss like 2 miles from where I released them from but I tossed them up today an took everything I had all made it back fine. So tuesdays check up will be 10 miles.


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## cai508 (Apr 8, 2009)

is it ok to train my birmingham rollers this way, not far though, i mean could they make it about 3 miles after training, are they capeble of doing this kind of thing


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

TipplerBeni said:


> To note as well Im releasing them by driving miles. I released them 4 miles driving which probably would be 2 miles air. I was going to do another toss like 2 miles from where I released them from but I tossed them up today an took everything I had all made it back fine. So tuesdays check up will be 10 miles.


Glad to hear that your birds are making it home! I tossed my youngbirds at 10 miles this past weekend and they did great. Got home before I did. I almost feel like they want me to take them farther but I want to play it safe. It'll be 10 miles this coming weekend and then it's off to 20 miles for next.

Good luck!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Henry, If you can take them 10, and they are Healthy, 40 is NOTHING... Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Cai508,
Different families of Birmingham rollers have varying degrees of "homing." If you want to toss, just use homers. Rollers were breed to roll on top of your lofts.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Birminghams get lost very easily as they were definitely not bred for homing ability. If they can come home from three miles, that's because they can see your property. If it wasn't for being able to see familiar land/birds, they'd be lost in a heartbeat.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

if your going to take anything out thats not a homer I would start small 1 mile tosses. How high to your rollers fly? I had tipplers that i've taken out 30 miles but i think i was easy for them cause they would fly so high i believe they could see both coast of florida on a good clear day. But you dont really want to take rollers for a check up. There flipping would hold them back wouldnt it?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

TipplerBeni said:


> To note as well Im releasing them by driving miles. I released them 4 miles driving which probably would be 2 miles air. I was going to do another toss like 2 miles from where I released them from but I tossed them up today an took everything I had all made it back fine. So tuesdays check up will be 10 miles.



I use a GPS. Once you have the loft location in your GPS you will know the exact distance of your releases. My main release point last year was 33.7 miles from the loft.

Ace


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

LUCKYT said:


> Henry, If you can take them 10, and they are Healthy, 40 is NOTHING... Dave


That;s very encouraging to hear Dave but I think I'll go with the increments of 10 idea. This is my first YB team and I want play it safe at this point. I'm aiming to make these birds my OB team for next years race season since I'm not going to race this year. I will for sure do the 40 mile after the 10 mile next year and I'll let you know how it turns out!


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

TipplerBeni said:


> if your going to take anything out thats not a homer I would start small 1 mile tosses. How high to your rollers fly? I had tipplers that i've taken out 30 miles but i think i was easy for them cause they would fly so high i believe they could see both coast of florida on a good clear day. But you dont really want to take rollers for a check up. There flipping would hold them back wouldnt it?


Wow! You took your tipplers 30 miles out and they came back, that's great!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

There is this site tossingtipplers.com that tosses his birds up to 150 miles and some still comes back! I think he is crazy, but seems to be a pioneer on this sort of thing. We won't know unless we try, right?


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

What is the Purpose in road training Tipplers? That is Silly. They are Bred to Fly High, and Long. even IF they Road Train Good, what is the point? they will Loft fly less, most likely. Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I would have to agree with Dave here on all fronts here. Road training them wouldn't do any good for competition. If you wanted to do it for fun then that's a different story.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

Its the loft owners pleasure to see his tipplers come back from that distance. I know for me when i had tipplers I wanted birds that were smart just in case they got in a cloud or a wind gust pushed them to far off course. Also in NY its bragging rights. You take your birds to other peoples lofts or around where other people fly an let go your birds an try to pull there stock over an catch there birds. Its the game they play there. When I lived in NY i had about 250 birds and in about a mile radius there were 13 fliers with just as big if not bigger stocks. It just makes the birds smarter if they get mixed I think


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I think maybe you are thinking of Flight Pigeons? Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

TipplerBeni said:


> Its the loft owners pleasure to see his tipplers come back from that distance. I know for me when i had tipplers I wanted birds that were smart just in case they got in a cloud or a wind gust pushed them to far off course. Also in NY its bragging rights. You take your birds to other peoples lofts or around where other people fly an let go your birds an try to pull there stock over an catch there birds. Its the game they play there. When I lived in NY i had about 250 birds and in about a mile radius there were 13 fliers with just as big if not bigger stocks. It just makes the birds smarter if they get mixed I think


That's really cool how they do that in NY. Do you give the birds back if their birds trap into your loft?


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Henry, he is NOT talking about Tipplers, he is talking about New york flights.
do a search Buddy. Dave


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

Update. They have 8 miles under there feathers no problem beat me home the first time out there. 
Next question. 
Racing season doesnt start to sept-oct. Am I pushing them to fast? Im shooting for after I get to 20 miles Increasing the distance each week by 10 to 15 miles. I want to get out to atleast 100 miles before season starts.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

TipplerBeni said:


> Update. They have 8 miles under there feathers no problem beat me home the first time out there.
> Next question.
> Racing season doesnt start to sept-oct. Am I pushing them to fast? Im shooting for after I get to 20 miles Increasing the distance each week by 10 to 15 miles. I want to get out to atleast 100 miles before season starts.


Hi Beni,

I would say no. You are not pushing them to hard at this point if they are all coming home and they are beating you home. It is the 100 miles I would question! How far is the first race? My birds never went farther than 60 miles in training and their primary release point was at 35 miles. 

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ace in the hole said:


> Hi Beni,
> 
> I would say no. You are not pushing them to hard at this point if they are all coming home and they are beating you home. It is the 100 miles I would question! How far is the first race? My birds never went farther than 60 miles in training and their primary release point was at 35 miles.
> 
> Ace


Ditto for me too and my first race is 200 miles.............202 to be exact
We train ours out to 60 miles............85 ONCE because we were going to get feed, so took the birds. My primary release point is at my Moms house and it's 37 miles.........I take them there over and over and over


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Ditto for me too and my first race is 200 miles.............202 to be exact
> We train ours out to 60 miles............85 ONCE because we were going to get feed, so took the birds. My primary release point is at my Moms house and it's 37 miles.........I take them there over and over and over


Thank you Renee for confirming that for him. By GPS for my birds it was 33.7 miles and over and over and over several times every week. They had it down so well that no matter how fast I drove they would arrive before me or maybe at the same time. One time I pulled in the driveway as the last group was landing. By the time I put the car in park the last tail went through the trap!

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ace in the hole said:


> Thank you Renee for confirming that for him. By GPS for my birds it was 33.7 miles and over and over and over several times every week. They had it down so well that no matter how fast I drove they would arrive before me or maybe at the same time. One time I pulled in the driveway as the last group was landing. By the time I put the car in park the last tail went through the trap!
> 
> Ace


Not sure what we'll do this year. Our first race this year is only 123 miles and we've never flown from the north before, so we'll have to find a spot.
I got a question though.......tell me what you think. Our first race station is due east of us. The second race station is due a little more to the north, but still more east. The rest of the race stations are due north. Stupid race course IMO, but that's what got voted in, so we gotta live with it. Think I should train my birds from the east first and THEN take them North or by the time they get to that third station, it shouldn't matter?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Not sure what we'll do this year. Our first race this year is only 123 miles and we've never flown from the north before, so we'll have to find a spot.
> I got a question though.......tell me what you think. Our first race station is due east of us. The second race station is due a little more to the north, but still more east. The rest of the race stations are due north. Stupid race course IMO, but that's what got voted in, so we gotta live with it. Think I should train my birds from the east first and THEN take them North or by the time they get to that third station, it shouldn't matter?


That is odd! It is usually on one line of flight! In this case I would train them with both east and north release stations. Just mix them up east one day north the next. They will learn real fast to get their bearings for the days release. I would also (if you can) leave them set on the ground in the crate and in the open for at least 20 to 30 minutes before release. That way they get their bearings while still in the crates and not in the air! The week after the first race do only one release from the east (the rest from the north) and after that all mid week training releases from the north.

Ace


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Something I do, which none of you guys mention (unless I've missed it), is to single up the birds from about 20 miles - I leave at least 10 minutes between each bird to give them time to clear - it really makes them use their brains and sorts out the leaders from the followers. 

I also train with another fancier so that the birds learn to break for home.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

pigeonpoo said:


> Something I do, which none of you guys mention (unless I've missed it), is to single up the birds from about 20 miles - I leave at least 10 minutes between each bird to give them time to clear - it really makes them use their brains and sorts out the leaders from the followers.
> 
> I also train with another fancier so that the birds learn to break for home.


There's a few fanciers that do that I'm sure, and I would, but when you've got 40 YB's.........40 x 10 mins is 400 mins. is 6 hours..........no way we have THAT kind of time to sit and toss birds. 
And to train with another fancier, you really need someone close by to train with. By the time I drive to the house of anyone I fly with, I've wasted and hour going in the wrong direction that I COULD have been traveling for a training toss. 
At one time, in 2005, I did have ONE fancier that lived about 5 miles from me, and we trained together, but he quit after one year.


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

Lovebirds said:


> There's a few fanciers that do that I'm sure, and I would, but when you've got 40 YB's.........40 x 10 mins is 400 mins. is 6 hours..........no way we have THAT kind of time to sit and toss birds.
> And to train with another fancier, you really need someone close by to train with. By the time I drive to the house of anyone I fly with, I've wasted and hour going in the wrong direction that I COULD have been traveling for a training toss.
> At one time, in 2005, I did have ONE fancier that lived about 5 miles from me, and we trained together, but he quit after one year.


Maybe it's just me Renee, I dislike driving. Especialy 40/50 miles out to sit there for half an hour, release the bird's, then come home.
My objective in training, is to get the bird into form. Pigeon's are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.One of the best year's I had was when I trained my bird's from the North (where I worked).But our race's are all from the West. Don't figure!
As far as single tossing, your right time is a factor. Maybe try releasing 5 at a time.


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

Lovebirds said:


> Gosh......you sound like my husband!!! LOL
> HE hates to drive too, but he also hates to clean the loft ALONE while I take the birds. He hates to cook breakfast or wash the clothes or the million other things that I DO while he's taking the birds..........
> I agree that after a certain point (probaby 20 miles or so) ALL you are doing is conditioning the birds. People seem to forget that these guys are BORN with the homing instinct and IF THEY AREN'T, nothing WE do is going to change that and eventually, they'll get hopelessly lost no matter HOW much you train...........


Please tell him, next time I'm in VA...I'll get the first pint LOL


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> I agree that after a certain point (probaby 20 miles or so) ALL you are doing is conditioning the birds. People seem to forget that these guys are BORN with the homing instinct and IF THEY AREN'T, nothing WE do is going to change that and eventually, they'll get hopelessly lost no matter HOW much you train...........


*Right on the money Renee*

That is why some choose to train in all directions so if there is a 10 mile an hour wind out of the west they will release from the east. Drive less and still get them into condition! 

"Note" I do not train this way! 

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Brummie said:


> Please tell him, next time I'm in VA...I'll get the first pint LOL


OH!....Brummie!! Is THIS what you were talking about?? LOL
Well, sorry to say......he doesn't drink either............LOL


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> *Right on the money Renee*
> 
> That is why some choose to train in all directions so if there is a 10 mile an hour wind out of the west they will release from the east. Drive less and still get them into condition!
> 
> ...


When you think about it, a lot is dependent on how smart your bird's are.Believe me I could have tied a Rand and Mcnally map on some bird's I've had, and they still would'nt make it home.
One get's a feeling, some are smart from the get go, other's are slow learner's and then there are the ones...you get my point?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Brummie said:


> When you think about it, a lot is dependent on how smart your bird's are.Believe me I could have tied a Rand and Mcnally map on some bird's I've had, and they still would'nt make it home.
> One get's a feeling, some are smart from the get go, other's are slow learner's and then there are the ones...you get my point?


Yes, That is why I beleave in taking it slow out to twenty miles. As they say, "Show them every fence post". I want to give them every chance to put it together and at that point if the don't have it figured out they never will. From there it is 10 & 15 mile jumps out to 60.

That is were you will get the bird here and there who will come home the next day or he always comes in late! This is a bird I will pull from the team. He is going down somewere??? I do not want him/her teaching the others to rest with him!!! 

Ace


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well here is my two cents... If you have wonderful Bloodlines, equal to the people you will be Flying against, GREAT, train like they do.
But, if you want to help Level the Field, TRAIN your Birds like no one else does, do the work. Single tossing Young Birds IS the best way to have a GREAT old Bird. It is called Education... Instinct can ONLY be used if the Bird is given the chance to develop it.Instinct is not any good unless it is ingrained in the Bird. A Bird always trained in Groups, and on the line of Flight will never any where reach its full potential. It is like driving home from work, you Know the route so well sometimes you do it out of reflex. Ask Brummie about how i trained. Off line, single tossed as much as i could, AND pushed them out to Distance ASAP.
Look at it this way... If you are flying against great Blood lines, and you are training like "they" do, you have taken the stand it is all about Blood lines, HOG WASH! Even the Bird with the BEST instincts in the World, needs the "Fine Tuning" to use the instincts to the Greatest advantage.
When i was Flying, there was a Guy that Swore he NEVER single tossed, BUT i was Single tossing while Fishing about 40 miles from here, and Guess who i caught single tossing?  Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Also, training with other Flyers is NOT really a good idea, Oh yeah breaking... If they are trained to fly on their own... They will Break.. Dave


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> Also, training with other Flyers is NOT really a good idea, Oh yeah breaking... If they are trained to fly on their own... They will Break.. Dave


I guess me and David came from the school of hard knock's in regard to pigeon's. If we can't beat them at there own game, we have to devise a system where they can't beat us at our's. Remember we, in our forty's, we are the new guy's.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

LUCKYT said:


> Well here is my two cents... If you have wonderful Bloodlines, equal to the people you will be Flying against, GREAT, train like they do.
> But, if you want to help Level the Field, TRAIN your Birds like no one else does, do the work. Single tossing Young Birds IS the best way to have a GREAT old Bird. It is called Education... Instinct can ONLY be used if the Bird is given the chance to develop it.Instinct is not any good unless it is ingrained in the Bird. A Bird always trained in Groups, and on the line of Flight will never any where reach its full potential. It is like driving home from work, you Know the route so well sometimes you do it out of reflex. Ask Brummie about how i trained. Off line, single tossed as much as i could, AND pushed them out to Distance ASAP.
> Look at it this way... If you are flying against great Blood lines, and you are training like "they" do, you have taken the stand it is all about Blood lines, HOG WASH! Even the Bird with the BEST instincts in the World, needs the "Fine Tuning" to use the instincts to the Greatest advantage.
> When i was Flying, there was a Guy that Swore he NEVER single tossed, BUT i was Single tossing while Fishing about 40 miles from here, and Guess who i caught single tossing?  Dave


I think you need to remember who started this thread and what this thread is about. You and I may know what we need to do to win but let's teach the new guys the basics first, OK.
I would like to see him with some birds left when it comes time for his first race. 

Ace


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

Yeah I read the page I dont follow everything I read though. Its like when my girlfriend is telling me things Im listening but Im not listening lol... But seriously. Im going to take it slow. start at 5 miles jump 5 miles till I get to 20-25 miles than start the 10 to 20 mile jumps. I was mapping out air miles on google earth and for me to release anything past 80 air miles I would be up further than what I really want to drive. lol... 50-60 miles is tops. 

Should I start breaking birds up into 2 groups a & b an kind of race myself? this is once I get the birds out to 60 miles an feel confident they are coming home.....?


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Its a good idea to always break your birds up into two, it lessens the chance of loosing them all should there be a hawk strike - give at least ten minutes between releases.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> There's a few fanciers that do that I'm sure, and I would, but when you've got 40 YB's.........40 x 10 mins is 400 mins. is 6 hours..........no way we have THAT kind of time to sit and toss birds.
> And to train with another fancier, you really need someone close by to train with. By the time I drive to the house of anyone I fly with, I've wasted and hour going in the wrong direction that I COULD have been traveling for a training toss.
> At one time, in 2005, I did have ONE fancier that lived about 5 miles from me, and we trained together, but he quit after one year.



This is off subject also but why not have anouther fancier meet you in the middle from their loft and yours. Then toss your birds together 5 birds him and 5 yours they will have to learn to break this way or go to the other loft and fly back. They will learn pretty quick. This is one thing I am doing this year. Just anouther method of training birds to break I guess and it can't hurt unless you have losses but if that is the case they would have had the problems first race anyway.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

Wont birds break anyway? I mean even if you teach birds to fly alone they still have to fly in the pack when racing for several miles they are going the same way. Wont it be better to burn the route to home by just training an training the way home? To mean anyway I feel a bird will do what they feel in the air. A bird wont break just because you toss it alone thats my opinion. I think it will make it smarter though but evenutally the next bird will catch up to it an so on an so on.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

RodSD said:


> There is this site tossingtipplers.com that tosses his birds up to 150 miles and some still comes back! I think he is crazy, but seems to be a pioneer on this sort of thing. We won't know unless we try, right?


 HI ROD, Well I don't think this guy is a pioneer I remember back in the late 1940s and early 1950s there were guys in NEW YORK CITY that had a club that raced them out to 100 miles or so. Now I can't tell you how many birds they lost but I think they may have move into homer racing as losses with racing homers were not a big thing back in those days,and the race birds(homers) could come home from greater distances. GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

LUCKYT said:


> I think maybe you are thinking of Flight Pigeons? Dave


 HI DAVE,While there were many people that flew flights in NEW YORK CITY there were many that flew tiplers. Now that was about 65 years ago and I flew birds there at that time and my flock was a mixed bag Tiplers,Owls. Homers, and mixed breeds.I never owned a flight as I considered them to be a DUMB bird and still do.. Boy those were the years when it was fun flying one's birds. Neigbors did not complain about a kid having pigeons, but I live in a neigborhood that had for the most part people from the old country good people for the most part. ..GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> That's really cool how they do that in NY. Do you give the birds back if their birds trap into your loft?


 HI HENRY,If someone caught one of your birds it cost 25 cents to get it back that's in the late 1940s and early 1950s it was a big game back in those days. It was fun flying back then. ..GEORGE


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I Will tell you,To answer Whoever said it. The best WAY to encourage YOUNG flyers is to give them an edge.... I do not care if you hear a word i am saying...Keep chasing the guys with better Blood for all i care! If you want to stay behind, so be it! I would rather have 5 TRAINED, and SMART Birds, than 50 just, Tossed like ever one else does. Stop living in other peoples "Shadow" TEACH your Birds, so they will not get lost in training, and win you some Races! When i Raced most People i Raced against thought i was "off" the wall.... UNTIL race results came in.
If you want to lose ,what do i care?.....
Some of these threads are so SAD . " I will do what THEY do, they Win, Yeah, after They spend half YOUR yearly Income on Birds.
When it comes to Racers, Rollers or Tipplers,. or even Show poultry, I worked HARD , not to do it the way other People did, AND i did real good.
IF you want to follow, Great keep doing it, OR train your birds..Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Hey George,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that you flew tipplers, too. I was thinking of getting some tipplers, but since I live near a military airport I am worried that they might cause airplane disturbance--birds getting sucked on an engine, for an example. Just imagine the horror news. Jets fly here often practicing maneuvers.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

LUCKYT said:


> When i Raced most People i Raced against thought i was "off" the wall....


Maybe where you fly what you do might be off the wall. But here on Long Island if you don't do the things your saying you get laughed at because your not even gonna have a shot at the race you'd just be throwing your money away. Thats why alot of the guys who lived here on Long Island that never did anything in races here becasue they didn't train the way you need to win that moved to Florida and now fly in the GHC club and now win because they didn't train enough to win here but they still train more then most them old guys down there. These guys didn't get new birds it's just that you have to have your birds trained better then the other guy. My best birds were givin to me when I was 17 was lucky to be given a team of birds that won combine average speed in 1998. So be it they were out of all them top dollar birds they were out of birds from the Janssen Brothers. But I beat the hell out of the guy who gave me them birds as well as the rest of my 40 flying members in my club in 1999 caus I trained them better then they. I won my first race that year. It was the first race of the season and I topped the combine with 2 pigeons. I put 10 birds in and was 1st 2nd and 11th and 22nd in the combine with over 2000 birds and of that lil 10 bird team and 3 of them won a race that season. So it takes good birds to win a race because I didn't change anything in 1999 except the birds I was flying but you still have to do more then the other guy to win.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

WELL PUT!!! Dave


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

LUCKYT said:


> I Will tell you,To answer Whoever said it. The best WAY to encourage YOUNG flyers is to give them an edge.... I do not care if you hear a word i am saying...Keep chasing the guys with better Blood for all i care! If you want to stay behind, so be it! I would rather have 5 TRAINED, and SMART Birds, than 50 just, Tossed like ever one else does. Stop living in other peoples "Shadow" TEACH your Birds, so they will not get lost in training, and win you some Races! When i Raced most People i Raced against thought i was "off" the wall.... UNTIL race results came in.
> If you want to lose ,what do i care?.....
> Some of these threads are so SAD . " I will do what THEY do, they Win, Yeah, after They spend half YOUR yearly Income on Birds.
> When it comes to Racers, Rollers or Tipplers,. or even Show poultry, I worked HARD , not to do it the way other People did, AND i did real good.
> IF you want to follow, Great keep doing it, OR train your birds..Dave


Amen, Brother.But use the dictionary.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alright, All I am reading here is train, train, train. Single toss and train better than the others. My last post on this thread that you all seamed to have stolen from Beni (a new flyer) was an attempt to get you back on track and help answer the questions he has. As an attempt to help him in his training!!! What about the quality of the birds? What about the proper birds for the distance? What about health, feed and condition? 

And this must single toss / train different. Last year was my first year back in this sport in 18 years. Before that I had a whole 1 1/2 years racing 45 miles off from the line of flight. I did single toss way back then. Last year I group tossed in three groups. I did train right and paid attention to all of the things I listed above as well. Oh ya, I spent almost nothing on the birds, most of them were gifts to help me get stated. I had winning drops of 3, 5, 7 and even 10 birds. I won 8 of 18 races. The first two combine races I won both the A and the B races for club and North Section Combine. So please don't try to tell me, Beni or the rest of the world that yours is the best or the only way to win. There are many ways to the top and yours is only the one that worked for you!!!

Ace


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> Alright, All I am reading here is train, train, train. Single toss and train better than the others. My last post on this thread that you all seamed to have stolen from Beni (a new flyer) was an attempt to get you back on track and help answer the questions he has. As an attempt to help him in his training!!! What about the quality of the birds? What about the proper birds for the distance? What about health, feed and condition?
> 
> And this must single toss / train different. Last year was my first year back in this sport in 18 years. Before that I had a whole 1 1/2 years racing 45 miles off from the line of flight. I did single toss way back then. Last year I group tossed in three groups. I did train right and paid attention to all of the things I listed above as well. Oh ya, I spent almost nothing on the birds, most of them were gifts to help me get stated. I had winning drops of 3, 5, 7 and even 10 birds. I won 8 of 18 races. The first two combine races I won both the A and the B races for club and North Section Combine. So please don't try to tell me, Beni or the rest of the world that yours is the best or the only way to win. There are many ways to the top and yours is only the one that worked for you!!!
> 
> Ace


My thought's are more in the line of speaking English, you can yak. But if we cannot understand it. What's the point of saying it?


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

TipplerBeni said:


> I took my birds 4 miles friday afternoon they didnt get home right away actually the first one home was 15 minutes later than pretty much the rest came home later in the day. I think they went routing. I took them saturday morning to the same spot an the beat me home but just flew for about an hour around the loft. Time for the next location should I take them another 4 miles from where i left them or can I take them a little further?
> 
> I was planing on doing 4 mile tosses until I got to 20 miles. than jump out 10-15 each time after.....


TipplerBeni,

I'm sorry people here get caught up on their way is the only way. Homing is an instinst, so the point is training and that was your question. What you want to happen is for your birds to fly to the loft as fast as they can without stopping. Then you want them to trap as soon as they get there so you can clock them. Now take everything you read and your knowledge of your birds and make those two things happen.

Good luck and happy flying,
Tony


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Look, these are just examples off the top of my head...I had birds from Local Flyers, for Free... I flew against they same stock they gave me, and Placed as good , but Usually BETTER than they did. ONLY example i have in Mind is, training is about, Just an off the Shoulder Guess, MAYBE 30% of a Pigeons Racing success, most Likely more. SO, if you only train the way the the person you got your birds From, you will NEVER Prevail.YOU are believing it is just to Blood Lines. That is lazy, and showing No Imagination.
I flew against flyers that paid small fortunes for the Birds they Flew... AND i was right up there with them. Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

OH! you are right BIG T, I Guess common sense is not so common any more.
The Best advice to a new flyer is to give your Birds Experience the other Flyers do not, so they are SMARTER. After 45 years of dealing with Livestock, it is uncommon to find people that think training, is not as important, or MORE important than Genetics.One last time.... IF you get Creative with your Training, you will BEAT the person you got your Birds from.... Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I am beginning to see a pattern here. It is both training and genetics! Here is my explanation:

1. Average training with average birds probably can give average results.
2. Average training with good birds probably will be better than the above.
3. Excellent/advantage training with average birds might give an edge.
4. Excellent/advantage training with good birds probably will win the above.

So you can see you are all wrong and right at the same time. It depends on what you are talking about. I think Dave is pinpointing #3 while Ace might be talking about #2. I obviously like #4. Now, to further open the wound, I would like now to call whether #2 and #3 have similar results or not. So what do you all think? Can average trained good bird can beat excellent trained average bird? Now to stay in track with the poster, I believe that if his bird is potentially good, he can toss them farther. If not thru training with shorter distance those birds might not get lost. Those birds though I believe are not that good if they require that much babysitting.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I am beginning to see a pattern here. It is both training and genetics! Here is my explanation:
> 
> 1. Average training with average birds probably can give average results.
> 2. Average training with good birds probably will be better than the above.
> ...


You see Rod, there is a lot more to it than just the road training and the genetics. It is the whole ball of wax as they say. It is the system! The other things I mentioned earlyer must also be there in order to win. Health, condition and proper feeding for the corse. Other important thing are the ventilation in the loft and lack of overcrouding. All these things must be in place to win more than your share of the races.

All of these things need to be a part of your system. Then you add to that, are you going to fly the light system or maybe the dark system? These then become a part of your system!!! 

You can win with average birds if your method/system is better than the others you are racing against. But, I will say again you must always remember that health, condition and proper feed for the corse are a must to win consistently. It has been compared to the spokes of the wheel, they must all be in place in order for your system to function properly!

Ace


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

george simon said:


> HI HENRY,If someone caught one of your birds it cost 25 cents to get it back that's in the late 1940s and early 1950s it was a big game back in those days. It was fun flying back then. ..GEORGE


Thanks for replying George..... That 25 cents has probably gone up to a crazy amount by now.


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