# Bactril anyone?



## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Yesterday I was talking with a friend who lives at the other end of the country. She's a vet (NOT an avian vet) and she mentionned to me that sometimes I could use Bactril instead of Baytril. Anyone in here with experience using Bactril. Based on what she told me, you only give it to the birds once per day (another advantage).


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Numbernine,

I believe Bactril is a probiotic and not an antibiotic. Did you perhaps mean Bactrim (trimethoprim and sulfamethoxazole)? Bactrim is indeed a very useful drug in the treatment of many maladies.

Terry


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

There I go again!  Another of my careless typing  

Thanks Terry! The vet friend told me that instead of using Baytril/cipro on the bird with the surgery, I should/could have used Bactrim instead. Do you agree?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Numbernine - we use Bactrim on a regular basis. As a matter of fact, most of the time when we get in a pigeon we routinely give it Bactrim and Nystatin and Pyrantel/strongid (wormer). Bactrim is not as strong as Baytril and we try to avoid using Baytril unless we have to. The next step in antibiotics that we use is Itraconazole which is pretty powerful stuff, and used only in extreme situations. 

Our vet gave us the following formulary: Example: (wt in kg.) (30 mg/kg) divided by 48 mg/ml (concentration) = the amount to give. For a 150 gram bird it would be .09 cc. I think the 30 mg/kg is the set "standard" for Bactrim. Also, we usually give 2xday for 7 days. My vet likes to give Nystatin along with it.

There is no bad taste to Bactrim and it is pink in color.

maggie


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks Maggie for a detailed answer. That sure is a lot of drugs.

If an injury has taken place 7 to 14 days ago and there is infection in the bone, then I think Baytril is the only way to go.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

NumberNine,

You need to understand the difference betweeen Bactrim and Baytril in order to decide when to use what. Baytril is a "big gun" antibiotic and it actually does its job by killing pathogens.

Bactrim is a "bacteriostatic" that actually doesn't kill bugs--it just keeps them from replicating (by interferring with folic acid synthesis) and so the bird's immune system must do the job of killing them. Bactrim is a combination of two drugs: Trimethoprim and a sulfa. The Trimethoprim works mostly in the tissues and the sulfa works mainly in the extracellular spaces.

If a pigeon is heavily affected by a septicemia or bacteremia, it may be too far gone for Bactrim to bring it back. In such a case, a true antibiotic is usually required. Also, Bactrim is pretty much useless against Pseudomonas species.

It tells all that kind of stuff in that chapter on antimicrobial therapy that I sent you. The bulk of that information hasn't changed since it was published over 10 years ago.

Pidgey


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

The post was edited.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Numbernine - yes, I would go with Baytril in this case.

Some notes I have made over the years on the two drugs:

Bactrim:Used for respiratory infection, some GI tract problems and abcess or deep tissue infections. Not to be given with severe renal or hepatic dysfunction. Maintain hydration. Does not need to be refrigerated.

Baytril: Aerobic gram-negative infections of genito-urinary and GI tracts; gram-negative respiratory tract infections, BONE infections, skin and external ear infections. Not effective against anerobes or Streptococci. Active against many gram-positive bacteria, mycoplasmas and chlamdiae. Effective against cat attack. Extreme caution when using with young birds. If there are puncture wounds, always go with Baytril. If you get the med in one of those little bottles where you stick a needle in the rubber top and draw it out you don't need to refrigerate, however, if it is mixed with anything to perhaps make the taste more palatable, then refrigerate.

Another thing I need to mention. You need to weigh all birds every single day while they are being medicated, no matter what medicine it is, and adjust the dosage upwards or downwards based on their weight. A severely ill bird can lose weight while a less severely ill bird may even gain 50 grams a day and that can affect the med's effectiveness. (Of course, Alaska's big fat baby is a prime example of how they can gain weight!)

That's all I can think of for now.

maggie


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks Maggie for sharing your notes with us.


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