# leg paralysis



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

A nice lady brough me a pigeon yesterday. She found him on the side of a busy road, unable to fly.
This little guy, seems a youngster, has both legs paralysed, he is unable to stand and his feet seem to have some grip and he seems to have pain sensation.
My vet gave him a physical examination and recommended Baytril and Metacam in case it is something bacterial, and if there is no improvement in five days he remommended to PTS. Of course you know what will happen, I will bond with this baby and it will be a heartbreak to have to part with him.
I hydrated him and late last night, after he had lots of urine, I fed him a thin formula. I really didn't think he would still be with us this morning, but he is hanging in there.
He could have had trauma to the spine, or it could be something viral. In either case there is not much that we can do, just supportive care, and see what happens.
I need some prayers for this sweety.
And any suggestions are welcome.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

I'm so sorry to hear about this youngster.

I'm glad you posted, as everyone's input will be a big help.

Since you had mentioned to me about this bird being starved and young, I would make sure to supplement with calcium as well as all the nutritional vitamins and minerals that are in the formula, and definitely get some probiotics in the mix if there isn't any. 

Check your e-mail.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti,

I'll remind you of the thread about Winter and her problem with the oviduct. It was pressure on the kidneys, some possibly from too much palpating, from the foreign bodies that caused her paralysis. I have become quite adept at feeling the back end of a hen and knowing that there's something inside back there but I couldn't explain it.

Of course, there are other possibilities. In such a case, I'd treat for a kidney infection and manage the bird like I did with Winter--cradling her in a towel formed into a canoe with a toilet paper diaper in the back end. Since you're working in a vet's office, you might be able to persuade your vet to use a cannula to get a sample of urine from the urodeum and run lab on it for E. coli or something like that. I think you can centrifuge the sample and then take a pipet to gather the sediment and examine at it at 1000x oil. Of course, for humans I think they don't bother with that and use something like a special test paper that they dip.

Anyhow, I wouldn't give up on the bird either, not for a month anyway. It took Winter a couple of weeks to resolve AFTER the surgery and she was pretty bad for a week or so before. There are so many cases where the bird CAN heal but I guess the feeling is that it will be TOO long and that's why the PTS option is chosen. Pierpont is a perfect example.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Reti,

How young do you think it is? As Teresa mentioned, the young ones can often be paralysed through lack of calcium and giving them a supplement (I use the Gem calcium syrup) can often produce almost miraculous results.

Older hens suffer egg-laying paralysis which lasts a few days.

I agree with Pidgey, one week is far too short a time to determine whether it will be able to walk again.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, I'll remember him in my prayers tonight. I know you will give him longer to see if he can make it. 

Maggie


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you, Treesa, Pidgey and Cynthia.
I don't think s/he has an oviduct problem as s/he seems to be no more than three months old. His ceres is hardly formed and he is quite small.
I gave him calcium gluconate last night and now, no improvement, but he is moving around in his cage by draging his wings. His grip is a little better, he grabs the bars of the cage and drags himself forward or sideways as he changes positions.
He keeps the legs forwards and they are kind of stiff and the tail is a little upwards.
I don't feel anything egg-like at the vent, but will take a urine culture and also a fecal.
I started her also on Baytril, cause I had a though maybe she has paratyphoid.
Anyways she is alert and I feed her well now. Her dropping are a mess, much white, yellow and bright green, very runny.

Thank you all for the encouragement to keep her longer than a week. I am in no hurry to PTS anyways, untill I am sure there is no chance of improvement.

Thank you Maggie, we need some prayers for a little miracle.
Yes, I will keep him as long as necessary.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for helping this needy one, keep up the great supportive care and as always lots of probiotics, it will help the bird assimilate everything better.

I'm saying an extra special prayer for this little one too!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Treesa. I gave her a warm sitzbath and I am sure there is no egg. She is extremely skinny. After the bath and dinner she started pecking at my hands, aggressively, well, not exactly but something like "ok, I've had enough for today" so cute.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


...might be a good idea to have a goooooooooooooood look down that gullet, and check for signs there of Canker.

Might be a good idea to treat for canker, whether you see any in the throat, or not...

"Warmth" also...for them of course...! ( I seem to be 'Mr. Warmth' man anymore...and am always recommending it...! )


Too, enteral parasites or Worms of some kind may be something well worth checking for, which can also lead the way to secondary infections from their mischiefs and from the Bird ending up with diminished resources...


Best wishes to you both!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Reti*

Mr. Squeaks is sitting on my shoulder helping me access the site. We both hope the little one recovers and will be waiting anxiously to hear how he/she is doing! Sending LOTS of good healing thoughts!


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Parathyriod*

Can cripple legs. I have seen birds lose use of legs. After treatment with baytril. Walking returns after a month or 2.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti,

I so sorry to hear about your new little rescue. I know he's in good hands and you will do what you can to try to get him back to good health. You did get the link in Squidget's latest thread to the East Petaluma Animal Hospital's write up on Pigeon Limb Deformity, and I'm wondering if you think it falls into any of those categories. Also, regarding Phil's reference to Canker, in two separate
articles I've read, one from Chalmers, it refers to Canker as occuring in organs. Both with Canker and Paratyphoid growths can occur in the various organs as resultant changes from the diseases. So, I guess if enough enlarging occured, perhaps pressure could come about in a way that would cause some impingement on surrounding nerves. This is speculative on my part, but I think
possible. 

I was also wondering if the vet did a fecal float or crop swab while there? Or if you have noticed any unusual oders along with the poops? Anyway, I'm sure hoping that the pijie shows some kind of progress over the next week, although as already said, these things can take a very long time. Bless you for taking him in and caring for him.

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank all so much.
The vet did check for canker, nothing was found. I will take her with me to work today so I can feed her and will have a fecal done. I can also put her in the "hot" room so she will be warm.

This morning I found her laying on her back, she looked very cute and actually comfy.
No improvement in her legs yet, but it might be a long battle as you all usggested.
Her poops are better formed and green (from the formula), no more yellow, just the normal white.

Thank you for letting me know it can take so long to see improvement from paratyphoid.

I'll let you know tonight what we find.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> This morning I found her laying on her back, she looked very cute and actually comfy.


PMV is another possibility, then. I think that weakness/paralysis in the legs probably causes them to lie like that. It happens with Les's Rupert (John wrote about him in another thread).

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> PMV is another possibility, then. I think that weakness/paralysis in the legs probably causes them to lie like that. It happens with Les's Rupert (John wrote about him in another thread).
> 
> Cynthia




That was another thought, PMV.
Anyways, I wasn't able to do the fecal yesterday due to a cat emergency (my cat has cardiomyopathy, diagnosed the other day, and going downhill very quickly).

The weak grip she had in her feet is gone, now her feet are completely paralized and I find her very often laying on her back.
Otherwise she is very alert and enjoys being carried around, watches everything with great interest.
Her dropping are nice, as nice as they can be on the formula, but normal coloring and semi-solid consistency.
I am giving her Baytril, metacam, vit b, calcium, probiotics, one drop of propolis in the formula and colloidal silver.
She is eating about 100cc's of formula a day, I know it's a bit too much, but she is way too skinny and she is doing ok with that amount. She is not eating on her own when offered seeds, but is drinking water.

I'll keep you updated.

Thank you all

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Reti, 

I hope it all works out for you with this pigeon. I have been following your thread but really didn't know what to suggest. You're getting the best advice and that combined with what you know, this pigeon is in the best possible care imaginable. If this is PMV, then you will see to it that the proper time is given to allow the pigeon to recuperate if it is able.

Sorry to hear about your cat and the cardiomyopathy too What is the prognosis for this?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your cat and the cardiomyopathy too What is the prognosis for this?[/QUOTE]


Not good if it is congenital. 
we are trying to figure out the cause of this. It is not from the thyroid (hormone levels are normal) but the vet had a thought it might be asthma that causes her cardiac problems. She got a shot of dexamethoasone today if it is asthma she should get better, if not she will be worse. We'll see. I am watching her very closely today

Jane, little pigeon, I noticed can move the legs from the hips, it is down from the hips she is paralysed.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Only time and the results of the fecal will tell what is next, but you are doing everything in your power (with supportive care & love) to give this bird a quality life and hopefully a future.

I'm sorry things seem worse for the bird, and very sorry to hear about Moki.


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## Yong (Oct 15, 2003)

Give it time Reti. I know that you are very busy with work, so I can help out if you want. I have been doing physical therapy on Stargazer for 3 months now. He is a victim of PMV. He can now stand upright, and can clean etc, but still can't eat on his own. He picks up the seed and thenspits it out. So last night I stuffed seeds in his mouth to give him the idea, when I put the seeds in his mouth he swallowed. He is coming around VERY slowly, but he is going to be alright. Perhaps yours just needs time as well. Let me know if you want to send her this way. I also have a prescription calcium syrup you are welcome to use. I use it in Stargazer's water. Yong


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Reti said:


> Thank all so much.
> 
> 
> This morning I found her laying on her back, she looked very cute and actually comfy.
> ...



Hi Reti, 

Glad to hear the 'yellow' has ceased in the poops...the yellow is something I take to indicate some kind of infection internally, and here, in las vegas, that is usually Canker.

Are you provideing a loosly rolled small towell made into a "U" shape for the Bird to rest on? 

How 'warm' is the 'warm room'?

It realy needs to be about 100 degrees to be effective.

I used to sometimes keep my bathroom at about 100 degrees, had a thermometer in there and a 1930s little electric space heater...I could keep the temp very accurite, so, used to do that smetimes when careing for various infant or ill Birds...

Of course Summer time here the whole interior is a balmy 104 more or less, so...that takes care of that...! Lol...

Otherwise, a box on it's side with a heating pad in it, set or layered in towells or other so it is just about right and not TOO hot..works very well...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I moved her in the living room now, on my turtles tank. So she has heat from the turtles UV lamp. I placed her small cage in a way that she doesn't get the direct light from the lamp but enough from the heat. She seems comfortable and warm and can follow the activities in the living room. She likes to sit proped up with her legs on a towel. .
i had to give her a bath cause of all the poop she had stuck on her from during the night. I noticed, two scratch wounds on her abdomen, superficial, and some puncture wounds on her thighs, plus lots of missing feathers at the thigh joints. She could have had some trauma after all.

Yong, thank you so much for your offer. I would hate to burden you with another disabled bird. At least my job allows me to take her with me if needed and at home Lee can care for her when I am not home.
I would like to try the calcium though and if you can show me how you do the physical therapy. I'll send you an PM, have to come up to you soon anyways and will take Jane along with me so you can take a look at her.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Next tiem you are out-and-about...

Get a Heating pad...

For a mere $5.00, it will be a far better investment than any number of extempore make-do's, which are not as good anyway.

Baytril would prolly be good to start them on, if they are not already on it, given we now recognise puncture wounds...

Check their tail area and back and indersides of their Wings also for possible additional small punctures...check theur rib cage too...their sides...

Flush these little punctures out if you can, with dilute tepid peroxide-and-water...flush them good, use a blunt needle even, on a syringe. 
(If you need to make a blunt needle, you can do so with a sharpening stone or Carborundum (Silicon Carbide) 'wet-and-dry' abrasive paper, 'sandpaper' some would call it..but it is not sandpaper. Or on any grinding wheel or bench grinder and then polish the end nicely...)

Or, if you have a plastic nosed syringe whose end is small enough..easiest of all then...no worries on sticking it in there and sluiceing it out good...it will in fact feel better and fast too, for your having done it.

And apply some topical antibiotic to them then, once they are flushed good ( with tepid solution of course...)

This might be most of what is up with them Legs, for all we know...

Best wishes to you both!

Phil
in CHILLY Las Vegas Brrrrrrrr...!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Healing thoughts*

to your pigeon and kitty!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Mr.squeaks and Phil.

The wounds seem to be closed already, they are really small, superficial and are covered by new skin, so I don't think it is necessary flushing them anymore.
She is on Baytril and the temp. in her cage is 98F.
I am thinking of moving her cage a bit, cause she might be getting too hot and she can't move herself away from the warmth and she is not acutely ill anymore. Except for her legs she seems like a normal healthy pij.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Ahhhhhh..very good then...

She is eating well? Pooping well?

Preening...?

Phil
Las Vegas


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## EvilMonkey666 (Dec 1, 2005)

Its a shame when you come into these situations but hopefully with lots of love and care the bird will pull together. I really am keeping my fingers crossed for this little guy. Im very happy he found his way to you. I really believe fate sometimes plays a role in this. Keep us udated on his progess. He can only get better from here on out.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Phil and EM666.
I don't know why she is not eating on her own, could be she doesn't know how, she is very young, ceres still forming, very small pinkish just now turning white. She does suck the formula, so guess have to teach her to eat on her own.
No preening either.

Today there was no flipping on her back. She is able now to drag herself and turn around and change positions.

I will try the warm water/jacuzi therapy.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks Reti for you care and devotion, once again, for another needy pigeon. 

Am still continuing to send my thoughts and prayers out for this one... 

Thank you for the update.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti - so happy to hear there was no flipping over on the back today; that has to be encouraging. Still pulling for her. God bless.

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


If you have other Birds who would be comfortable for her to be near...she may benifit and feel inspired for pecking if she is next to them as they are pecking...

You mentioned 'Jane' falling onto her back, in the 'Squidget' thread, so, I take it this must be Jane..!

Sorry, it is hard sometimes for my poor brain to keep our various thread straight...

Now...her Legs -

Can you describe more about what they are doing?

If you hold her upright, say against your chest with her back to your chest...and with the other hand, move her Legs in ways that would be their normal range of motion...is there much resistanve there? Does she either relax them or push back, or is it only only some partion of their range of movement in which they are weak or make pain maybe?


All of which of course also is their Hips being involved...

Anyway, I was remembering a long ago Bird I had who because he had broken both Legs, I set him into a comfy sling for quite a while, in a cage, and it was fine with him, he liked it and never protested. He could poop out the back, and from the front he could reach his Seeds and Water. I used some cotton material from a tee-shirt to make it with...and his Legs just hung out the bottom so no pressure of any kind was on them.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Reti,

That is a big step for her if she can balance and scoot! Maybe no more pooping on herself and easier on you! 

Denise


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti,

That is good news that you're not finding her on her back. The 'shotgun' approach is sometimes the only way to go although it's sometimes hard to know which thing made the difference. Would you say that her size is smallish for her age or a normy? Curious if you've ruled out PMV or Paratyphoid?

Anyway, I know you're on top of everything there and this pij is very lucky to be under your care. Thank you again for all that you do for those that others would give up on. You both continue to be in my thoughts....

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...well, I have seen plenty of appearently Sprained Legs, which the Bird will hold 'up'...and I see no reason why a Bid could not have Sprained both Legs for that matter, where, there is no way to hold both of them 'up' so the Bird is kind of in a jam with things then.

A couple weeks in a 'Sling'...if this is a sprain issue or green stick fracture and sprains...would probably take care of it pretty well.


After 10 days or something, one could reach up from below, with them in their sling, and gently start testing for strength...and go from there.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I hope Jane is*

doing better, and also your cat. 

Take care
Andi


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Reti,*

continued healing thoughts for Jane and your kitty! Sure hope all will continue going well!  

*To fp*: your Avatar looked like it swallowed a tomato! What kind of bird IS that?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you so much for ou kind words.

Phil, the legs are paralized, completely limp, no resistance or movement. She can move her hip joints though.
I am afraid to put her with my other birds in case has has PMV or Paratyphoid, I am keeping her in isolation for now.
I like the sling idea, will try to apply it tonight.

My cat is a little better, but not as good as I was hoping she would be after the cortisone shot.
She might need some Lasix to eliminate the fluids in her lungs. Will stop by the vet today and see what he thinks.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have to share the most fantastic news with my dear friends (even if I will be late for work). 
Jane can lift her abdomen off the ground about one inch. She can also stand briefly, she has somewhat mobility in he knee (elbow) now.
You should have seen the look in her face, she is so happy about her progress as much as I am.

Thank you all for your good thoughts and prayers and advice.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is wonderful, Reti!!!! Well done, both of you!

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Reti, 

That's wonderful news about Jane, I hope she continues to improve now each day getting just a little better. 

I also hope that your Moki will continue to do better as well. Keep us posted on both and best wishes that they will continue to improve in the coming days You're such a good animal care giver!!!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti,

While Winter was convalescing, I would help her stand up and walk a bit almost like physical therapy sessions. She seemed to enjoy and look forward to them and would sometimes preen me. She's one of the few adult birds that seemed to understand what it was that I was doing for her and show true appreciation for it.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti,

Excellent news on Jane, she obviously picked the right caregiver , I know you must be relieved as well. I hope your cat, Moki, continues to improve and that the vet can help you w/the fluid in lungs.

Mr. Squeaks, that is a Magnificant Frigate Bird and does indeed have quite an unusual appearance  

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> I have to share the most fantastic news with my dear friends (even if I will be late for work).
> Jane can lift her abdomen off the ground about one inch. She can also stand briefly, she has somewhat mobility in he knee (elbow) now.
> You should have seen the look in her face, she is so happy about her progress as much as I am. * Did you have any doubt?*
> 
> Reti


*Thanks for the wonderful update...I'm sure your love and care had alot to do with it.*


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Congratulations! That is wonderful news!

Denise


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Thanks for the update, Reti*

That is just the BESTEST news! Will continue to send healing thoughts for continued improvement and hopes for Moki getting better too!  

*fp* Many thanks. I KNEW the bird kinda looked familiar but could not remember what it was no matter how hard I tried! Yes, a most unusual bird!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you everybody. I tend to believe poor Jane had some trauma and the swelling is going down now and she is regaining function of her legs.
This evening is even better, she can take a few steps. It is her feet now still not working, the legs seems so much better.
I am doing what you suggested, Pidgey, I am holding her and she tries to walk. She is very good about it.
Also she is able now to tuck her legs under her, instead of keeping them stretched forwards.
She still hates her baths.

Moki is getting better also, the cortison shots did help her a great deal and she coughs rarely now

BTW, I had a fecal done on Jane and we found capilaria, so I am treating her for that too now.

Reti


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## Yong (Oct 15, 2003)

Hey Reti, You know that one fantail I got with the REALLY bad case of worms? She used to limp terribly and roll her body from one side to another, then after I wormed her, the symptons went away very quickly. Also I was thinking...is she old enough to lay eggs, and could it have been egg laying paralysis?? good job! Yong


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks, Yong.
Egg paralysis is not the case in this guy, it's still a baby. Plus she is only skin and feathers, you would eaily feel an eggs if it was there,
I am treating her for the capilaria now.
My thought is it she had either trauma or paratyphoid which starts responding to the Baytril.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

I'm glad Jane is doing much better. What are using to treat the capilaria?

Glad Moki is feeling better, also.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*So glad*

to hear the good news! Healing thoughts still being sent though...  

BTW, how old is Moki? What kind of cat? Just had my 16 yr old Scottish Fold in for teeth cleaning and tests. He's doing fine; thyroid meds stay same and I'm starting him on Cosequin for possible arthritis...so far, so good...


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## Yong (Oct 15, 2003)

HI Reti, I didn't realize she was so young. You are probably right then. The egg laying thing happens after the egg has been laid. there would not be a presense of an egg, but your baby doesn't qualify anyway. Can't wait to see the little one=) Yong


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

mr squeaks said:


> to hear the good news! Healing thoughts still being sent though...
> 
> BTW, how old is Moki? What kind of cat? Just had my 16 yr old Scottish Fold in for teeth cleaning and tests. He's doing fine; thyroid meds stay same and I'm starting him on Cosequin for possible arthritis...so far, so good...



Moki is roughly a year old. She is small cat, no breed, but has a cute and funny oriental face, so she might be some kind of mix. Oh and she has a beautiful silver gray fur. Maybe Yong can take a pic of her some day.

Yong. didn't know egg paralysis is caused after the eggs is laid. Anyways she ate a bit small seeds today, she still can't eat the big ones but is learning.
Her left leg is doing better than the right, she can almost stand on the left one, but the right one still slips sideways. We just had a little physical therapy now, she can walk a step or two.
I am hopeful she will make a complete recovery.

Treesa, I am treating the capilaria with panacur, as much as I hate it, especially in young, but I need results in this one quick (I mean get rid of the worms quickly).
Also she gained 16gr since she's been here, so hopefully she will do better now that she starts pecking at the seeds. He droppings are good too.

That was a happy case with this little one. I am so relieved.

Thank you all for your prayers.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Oh my*

I didn't realize Moki was so young! Poor baby! I hope all goes well. Does the Vet think her age might work toward her to recovery? Will she have to be on lifetime meds?

Mr. Squeaks took Panacur for his round worms and passed SIX (he had 7 of them!) Seemed to work as he hasn't had a problem since. Hope all works well for you too!

Physical therapy sounds like it's going well! Keep those legs amovin'....


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## Amber (Nov 17, 2002)

*Similar cases*

Hi Reti..... I had 2 similar cases this year. I just stuck with them just as you are and they both became somewhat normal to live a normal life. I was very persistant with some physical therapy such as massaging the foot and leg, pushing and pulling, things like that. one ended up dying but for a while before so he was able to fly and just squat. The other looks and acts normal, only his legs are spread much farther apart than a normal pigeon, this just to give you hope that there is a good chance for normalcy!!!

Amber


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

mr squeaks said:


> I didn't realize Moki was so young! Poor baby! I hope all goes well. Does the Vet think her age might work toward her to recovery? Will she have to be on lifetime meds?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Great Update!*

Reti,

I'm so glad Moki is almost her "old" self again, and that Jane is making steady progress. It seems the capilaria aggravated her situation, huh? 

It seems when a bird is already down with trauma, parasites and other things have a way of taking hold quickly. Once the immune system is under attack, the gut seems very vulnerable to almost anything, too. Keep up the great work, and keep re-enforcing the gut with the probiotics!


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