# birds sex how to tell



## epicdoom

Hello

I am new to this forum and new to pigeon raising. A friend of mine gave me some really nice birds and helped me build a loft for them. I asked him how to tell the birds sex and I get mixed answers. I want to breed the birds as most of the ones he gave me are show type. I will have my loft seperated in male female sections to control the breeding as he sugested. I Just need to know if there is a definitive way to tell the sex of the birds I have. 

Any help would be great some of the birds he gave me coo and fight one another. He said both sexes coo and fight but not all the time. I would like to find some books on raising and breeding if anyone has good sugestions. The friend who gave me the birds has been raising and showing them for 4+ years. He knows alot it seems on like how to care for them and showing. 

Thanx in advance for any help
Epic


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## Lin Hansen

Hi Epic,

Welcome to pigeons.com. It is not always easy to tell male from female and many members have been fooled. I found a previous thread which provides some information on sexing birds that you may find helpful. Just click on the link:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5146

I'm sure others will be along to offer you some good advice and opinions shortly.

Linda


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## upcd

*Boys Or Girls?*

Hi, What kind of show birds do you have? Yes, many of us do get fooled. Even me. Males can be larger and coo more. Thier coo come with a dance and fanned tail scapping the ground. They like to chase other pigeons. They tend to hold more property than girls. Girls can be smaller. They respond by dropping their wings when accept a male. Some Breeders use the vent or hip bones to tell male or female. Male bones under tail close together. Females wider 1/2 inch. But watching behavior will help. GOOD LUCK.


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## alaska

Yes, definately the bowing and cooing can be a big give away of a male, plus the hip bones. Also a good tip I got previously was to place the pigeon in question alone with a mirror, if they bow and coo at the mirror they are male, if not they are female, again this is not 100% certainty but will give you a good indication.
It is quite difficult sometimes to tell, but following the above should help you have a rough idea


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## Jiggs

Now that I am getting to know my pigeons and which are Male/female I have noticed that the white thingymajig on their beaks (I still do not know what this is called?) on the males are exceptionally larger than on the females. Is this an indication or not?

Check my revenge post of Cocky and Piet (Cocky is the male) (really bad photo I know excuse me)

Or is it just luck and/or circumstance. I would also think the age plays a part in this like elephants tusks??

Good thread that Lin reccomended I printed it for my file and future reference. It show excactly how much more I need to learn. BUT I will get there someday


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## cooingsosweetly

*simple to tell*

the male has a big, round top o the head, and a big gullet and he may flair up when he is in mating mode
the female, coos less, and has a flat, smaller head. press on the lower back where the white fearhers are where the wings cross, if it is a coo sound that comes out, it is male. if a squeek sound comes out, or a peep, it is a female.


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## ilovemydragon

My Piper acts just like a boy (cooing and bowing) and is on the large side compared to ferals I see but that whole theory went down the tubes last night when SHE laid an egg.  

That goes to show you that you cant rely on just behaivor


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## Lee

*thingamagig*

Lee here, 
The thingamagig is called the cere same as the white around the eyes.. it should be white in color and soft to the touch it playes a small role in the courtship of the birds as the cock bird sticks his beak down into the wing feathers during the courtship it is believed that the cere causes sexual stimulation at this time.An off color or dirty/greasy looking cere is an indication of illness hope this helps ..


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## pig-eon

I not sure but I've done some visual comparance on a few of my adut pigeons. I took and seperated all the pigeons into groups of males and females. I only tested on the ones that I already knew the gender. But what I noticed was all my females had thin and longer beaks, while my males all had shorter and thicker beaks. I don't know for sure but that Is my tech of sexing. I was really interested in trying to identify my younger pigeons that dosen't know how to coo correctly yet so I tried to do some visual instead of waiting for the coos and actions the the young birds.

Well I hope that works for some people because it works for me. Give it a try and tell me if that way works for you.


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## Lee

*beaks*

Lee here, 
Yery intresting and i will of course look at my birds to see if mine are that way thanks for posting that ....


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## RoundAbout

I don't have one myself, but noticed that at Foys Pigeon Supplies they have a sex detector that they say works even on little squeakers. Not sure how it works, but it isn't invasive at all for the pigeon.


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## feralpigeon

<ilovemydragon My Piper acts just like a boy (cooing and bowing) and is on the large side compared to ferals I see but that whole theory went down the tubes last night when SHE laid an egg.

That goes to show you that you cant rely on just behaivor>


_I have a small feral female who also coos and bows_ 

<pig-eon I not sure but I've done some visual comparance on a few of my adut pigeons. I took and seperated all the pigeons into groups of males and females. I only tested on the ones that I already knew the gender. But what I noticed was all my females had thin and longer beaks, while my males all had shorter and thicker beaks. I don't know for sure but that Is my tech of sexing. >

_I used the search engine and see that another member also describes this technique for determing sex._ 

<RoundAbout I don't have one myself, but noticed that at Foys Pigeon Supplies they have a sex detector that they say works even on little squeakers. Not sure how it works, but it isn't invasive at all for the pigeon. Yesterday 08:54 AM>

_It works on a system known as "dowsing". Some people swear by dowsing, and others think it is hocus pocus. fp_


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## rena paloma

*beak wattle*

white thingymajig on their beaks

this is called the "beak wattle" in a show, three points are given for this


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## halfwatt

the birds he has are young, not really old enough to tell, not finished moulting


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## halfwatt

oh, the birds he has are bastine racing homers, with one that placed 1st in the last show it was entered in, and several young off another first plcae bird i use to show, he has started off with some excellent stock. the blood line has been raced with good results in placing rather high


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## whitesnmore

*Foys sex indicator*

I bought an indicator from Foys and have yet to have it give me an incorrect reading. Of course be sure to read the directions but I can tell you I tried it on my know sexed birds and it was right 100% of the time. I was sure it wouldn't work but was pleasantly surprised.


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## JGregg

That isn't a valid test for your pendulum.

You already know the sex of the birds you're testing and this can cause you to move the pendulum accordingly. In other words your controls are not valid.

To validate your control set bring in a third party to "test" your birds that are already sexed. This will also act to give you a baseline for the error you can expect. Then when you have birds that are not sexed you'll need to have the third party test them too (so things are consistant). It would be good to have a batch of unsexed birds large enough for statistical significance so your data is actually conclusive. Then you'll know if dowsing for pigeon gender works.

I don't buy into the dowsing stuff, but if you can prove it works and your experiment can be reproduced I'll acknowledge it.


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## ElDorado57

*Regarding sexing pigeons...*

Most amateurs like [email protected] and me have to rely on physical characteristics primarily, and behaviour secondarily.

Physical clues:
Male pigeons are normally slightly larger overall, with an iridescent coloring around the normally thicker-appearing neck, possibly larger nostril vents, and larger claws, with the middle claw being longer than the others -(unlike females, where claws are normally almost equal in length)- 
Females are normally smaller, with no iridescent coloring around neck, more delicate beaks/nostrils, and thinner, finer-appearing necks and claws.

Behavioural clues:
Male are normally the ones chasing, or exhibiting dominant/courtship behaviour, such as fluffing of neck feathers, tail-dragging, light pecking of females on the back of the head, or 'Stepping' on females' tails...males also tend to chase other males away from 'chosen' territory, or 'chosen' females...
Females are the ones being chased, dominated, and overall less active.

Using the above you can pretty much determine pigeon sex with about 66% reliability...
Uncertainly creeps in due to birds being too young to exhibit any of the above clues, or being ill/sick.

Hope that helps...

ARockeagle


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## feralpigeon

Used to live in a town where everyone had their own well drilled for their home.
If you were wealthy, you didn't need a dowser, if not, why then you needed a 
dowser. If you were a good dowser, you got calls for new wells to dowse for, otherwise, your name wouldn't make it to the word of mouth referral system. That's just how it was.

My dad built houses in general, and specifically built our house in that town. He
didn't dabble in tarot cards, psychic readers or even dreams let alone dream
symbology. Didn't like chiropractors even. But he did hire a dowser before 
drilling for our well and was very happy w/the results. We hit the first time within the depth range as described. The man right next door to us told us that
he did not dowse and had spent a fortune looking for water by drilling where they "thought" it would be.


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## epicdoom

Thanx all for the replies!! I have eggs in my loft from a pair. hehe I know for sure whats what out of those 2 birds and have determined a couple others to be male. My friend has told me that the birds are young and not ready to breed yet so time will tell for the others. BTW the guy named halfwatt who posted is the friend who gave me the birds.


Thanx 
Joe


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## pig-eon

you got a pretty nice friend then. Also I'm wondering, LEE did the beak thing work for you.??


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## halfwatt

I try.....lol


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## rena paloma

*sorry*



Lee said:


> Lee here,
> The thingamagig is called the cere same as the white around the eyes.. it should be white in color and soft to the touch it playes a small role in the courtship of the birds as the cock bird sticks his beak down into the wing feathers during the courtship it is believed that the cere causes sexual stimulation at this time.An off color or dirty/greasy looking cere is an indication of illness hope this helps ..


hi, rena here, thought it was a wattle too. thanks for the correction lee


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## feralpigeon

rena paloma said:


> hi, rena here, thought it was a wattle too. thanks for the correction lee



How 'bout this?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17&highlight=wattle


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## JGregg

If you look in an avian anatomy and physiology book it's called an operculum. Like the gill cover of bony fish (Osteichthyes).

On the other hand all of the veternarians I've taken my birds to (that's quite a few!) call it a cere.


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