# young birds dying



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

hello

i am new to this forum. i have a serious problem. i am new to pigeon keeping and during the last few months lot of my young are dying in the nest. appreciate any advice on how to stop this

warren


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's often canker but it could also be Paratyphoid, E. coli... a few different things. If you could give a few more details of the symptoms, that would be good.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Canker is a disease caused by a protozoa, the others mentioned are bacteria. Usually for a person who keeps a loft, it's wise to get and have on hand a few common medications. In your case, I'd suggest you get some as fast as possible, especially an anti-canker. Where basically are you?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

These are links to online pigeon supply houses where you can get meds and other supplies:

JEDD's:

http://www.jedds.com/

Global:

http://www.globalpigeon.com/

Foy's:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/

New England Pigeon Supply:

http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/

Siegel's:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/

The different sites have different ways of indexing and organizing their online product catalogs, you just have to dig, often by the disease name. For the nestlings, one of the safest medications is a Trimethoprim/Sulfa combo. They go by many different names in human medicine (Bactrim, Cotrim, etc.) but they're all pretty similar. That particular medication is for bacterial and coccidiosis problems. 

For canker, you're going to need something like Metronidazole, Carnidazole, Secnidazole, Ronidazole, etc. (there are a few of those). They also have product names like Flagyl, Spartrix, Ronizol (it's spelled a few different ways--I can't keep up with them) and others. When you post your situation and location, we'll try to firm up on a product that you can get hopefully locally.

Metronidazole can sometimes be found in an aquarium supply store under the name of "FishZole". It usually comes in 250 milligram tablets that you'd have to chop up and give to an affected nestling. As to that, canker (not "cancer"--it's real name is "trichomoniasis" after the "trichomonads" that are the cause) often shows up as little cheddar cheese colored buttons in the mouth and throat. However, they can also occur out of sight down further in the GI and organs like the liver. It's very common for nestlings to die of that.

Pidgey


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i'm writing from sri lanka so any medecine or cure would be difficult to find here. i do have a problem with pox which shows up on half the youg birds when they are about 20days old, i also noticed that the young are slow to develop and look week and small made. is pigeon pox same as fowl pox, can i use the fowl vaccine on them


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

hi pidgey,

from the description i may have a canker problem (this never struck me). my birds do have a cheese color button like growth on the head, around the eyes and beak and some times on the wing. i thought this was pigeon pox. this is a big prblem in sri lanka and most pigeons do have it. how is this treated and controlled.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Warriec,

Pidgey may not be back on-line here tonight, but I'm sure he will reply to you the next time he is on.

It sounds to me like you may have a problem with paratyphoid (salmonellosis) in your birds. Wing boils are a pretty sure sign of this as are the small and slow to develop youngsters as well as babies/embryos that do not develop and die in the egg. The typical treatment for this here in the U.S. is Baytril. If this is the cause, then all your adult birds as well as any surviving young need to be treated. If you have a lot of birds, then one of the flock treatments from a pigeon supply house would probably be more efficient and cost effective for you.

I don't know the answer to your question about using fowl pox vaccine for pigeons but will try to look this up. 

As I posted, the wing boils are almost certainly paratyphoid but the growths around the eyes and beaks sound like avian pox, so you may have more than one problem you are dealing with.

Canker would present itself as a cheesy looking growth in the mouth or throat. It can also be present internally where you can't see it.

Please keep us posted and let us know if there is a way any of us might be able to help from so far away.

Terry


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

hi terry,

you seem to have described my problem correctly. lot of eggs do seem to die in the last stage. avian pox, i'll check the web for a picture of it and confrm it later.thanks


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi Terry,

i think i have avian pox out break from the pictures i just seen. is there a vaccine. am i to get rid of the ifected pigeons. 

i live in a tropical country and my birds are laying all year round, shall i keep on removing the eggs until such time


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Read up on the vaccines for poxes:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/PS030

http://www.obpvaccines.co.za/main_farm2_poultry_001.htm

http://www.dekalbpoultry.com/vetinfo/VSB 2040699.pdf

For now, it would probably be best if you could find a way to get rid of parasites (like mosquitos and pigeon flies), take away all eggs and switch them for dummy eggs (you can make dummy eggs out of real ones by taking fresh eggs, poking a small hole, flushing out the insides and then filling them with glue and sealing the hole if necessary), and then clean, clean, clean where you're keeping your birds. You'll just have to check and see what products you can obtain locally and what you can afford.

A lot of drugs are pretty easy to buy in India but I have no idea what Sri Lanka is like that way. You may have more than one problem going on and it's going to be up to you reading the descriptions and looking at pictures of the various things to see which disease(s) your birds are suffering from.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Terry Whatley has plenty of pictures of pigeons with pox and one of us will be sure and get links to those posted presently.

Here's some of pox in a goose:

http://www.rims.net/2006Feb06/

On a young pigeon:

http://www.rims.net/2005Nov22/

On a robin:

http://www.rims.net/2006Jul19/target2.html

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Paratyphoid Wing Boil*

http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid/

Terry


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

hi pidgey,

from the pictures i defenitely have a pox problem. i will take terry's advise and remove all eggs and start the cleaning up process. with about a month of consistant cleaning will the problem reduce? the current young, what do i do with them. i have few day old nuns, lahores, cauchines and racing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

We don't generally advocate putting birds to sleep here. All I can advise you to do is the best that you can. Many birds make it through pox with little or no discernible scars and they have lifetime immunity after it's over. Pox comes in two forms: dry pox and wet pox (diphtheritic). Wet pox has a tendency to be on the inside and affect organs. Sometimes with those birds, it's bad and you'll never even know why until an autopsy. If I were you, I'd try to nurse the ones that are currently in it on through. You can use various things to try and dry up the external lesions like Betadine (Povidone Iodine solution). Others on here know of the more herbal products used. Time is the biggest thing.

If the virus for pox is sitting around in your local wild bird population and free standing water, and if mosquitos are rampant, it may never go away. In such a case, you'd have to vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate and then try to keep mosquitos out or away with insecticides or whatever. I guess this is a new problem for you, huh? It may pass through, leaving a bird population that's gotten immune to it eventually, I just can't tell you.

However, it's also possible, as has already been mentioned, that you may have more than one thing going on. You may have concurrent paratyphoid, canker, who knows what. So, it would be good for you to search around there and see if you can find some other medications like Flagyl (Metronidazole--it's in human pharmacies for us, too, and I know you've got that one there), and some kind of a Sulfa drug, especially a Trimethoprim/Sulfa combination. As you've probably already seen through the links, those are common drugs in large packages for flock treatment but it's anyone's guess in Sri Lanka. You might want to talk with other fanciers in your area as well as the local veterinarians about it. Surely, someone there has learned how to manage in that location.

Pidgey


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i am in a tropical coutry where ist warm and humid. mosquitoes are uncontrollable here so i gues vaccinating would be difficult and controlling mosqutoes will be nearly impossible. baytril is available in the market. a local fancier told me to apply tinture of iodine to the boils whether it was pox or something else. it worked for a certain degree. inconclusion i think its best for me to use betadine to dry the lesions up and hope for the best as as mention an infected bird get life time immunity. about the birds withering and slow growth, is this also a sign and will rectify itself?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Babies failing to thrive is frequently associated w/Paratyphoid and would be treatable w/Baytril.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There is a problem with giving Baytril to nestlings, though--it affects the growing bones. If it's the only thing you can get, then it's your only recourse. But it will stunt the pigeons' growth--they will definitely be smaller and may have skeletal problems. That's why I suggested that you try and find a Trimethoprim/Sulfa combination--it's safer for nestlings. I don't have any idea what you'd call it there but there are a lot of names that it goes by. Here is a link to a page that tells several of the names that it's marketed as:

http://www.drugs.com/cons/Septra.html

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, this is said of Baytril and nestlings. Curious it was that Dr. Speer's office in Oakley didn't take to that notion and apparently had no qualms about giving it to a baby. 

To be safe in view of controversy, Bactrim would be better for birds in the first few weeks to month of life. As noted, if availability is an issue, then Baytril would be used.

fp


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i've heard the name baytril couple of times by fanciers in my country but had no idea. how is this given? from all i gather, i am now going to give my youngsters away (with and without infection) to prevent infection - the adults must have go it and be immuned by now, reduce the flock size so the cleaning part can be made easier. stop breeding for some time (about a month). young who are too small will be kept and treated with betadine. entire flock will be treated with baytril (which ever way possible to give). is there anything else i should be take care of. i have already vaccinated them for New castle disease. mosquitoes i cant control. note there are my neighbors chickens who are free range etc... which is a constant problem but i dont know the health of there birds.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

hi pidgey & fp,

i've done what i can. found baytril but was warned that its very strong and may or will stop egg production permanently and it slows the growth of youndsters. i'm going to look for bactrim and pidgey recommendation tomorrow.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

warriec said:


> is there anything else i should be take care of. i have already vaccinated them for New castle disease. mosquitoes i cant control. note there are my neighbors chickens who are free range etc... which is a constant problem but i dont know the health of there birds.


If you cannot get a hold of the vaccinations and meds, there is still other things you can do. 

I live in Florida where the climate is also quite humid and we have alot of mosquitos. We use mosquito netting over any open areas (on top of hardware cloth) in the coop. It does keep alot out, as long as you make sure to keep doors closed, especially at night.

Are you able to get any encapsulated herbs there?

You can also build up your birds immune systems with Garlic, either by capsule, or crushing a clove in their water. It makes a fine antibiotic as well as keeps parasites away and purifies the blood. You can use some herbs like Reishi together with garlic as an anti-infective. Also, Neem oil is a powerful anti-fungal as well as anti-infective. 

There is also a very good homeopathic called Thuja Occidentals that will help with getting rid of Pox internally. It has been proved to work well for those who actually used it. For external lesions you can use either Tea tree oil, or Thuja oil. You cannot use these around the eye or nostrils. You can also use colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver) topically to dry up lesions around eye, just a drop, and one down the throat.

These are worth trying as it enables the birds to get stronger and enable them to fight any infections and endure the viruses, as well as rid them of Pox. If you cannot find or get the drugs or vaccinations mentioned, I would certainly not hesitate to use these proven products, especially for the smaller vulnerable youngsters.

You can use human grade probiotics to strengthen the intestines and build up the good gut bacteria, even a good organic kefir will do. That works well against bad bacteria (yeast and fungus problems) in crop too. It works very well in cases of coccidiosis, as I have seen. I make a mean kefir that even 6 month old babies can eat, and it is my first choice for new hatchlings, when needed.


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