# Remodeling Loft



## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

I Am Going To Remodel My Loft So You Guys Can See The Before And After. Due To The Budget I Had Before It Look Kind Of Bad Not That Pleasing To Eye. I Have One Question Where Do I Place The Ventilation So Theres Mno Drafts The Loft Is 6x8x8 And Is Raised Two Feet Off The Ground And The Floor Is Plywood.right Know I Have 13 Pigeons 6 Breeders And The Rest Youngbirds They All Fly Together For At Least One Hour Daily.i Want To Keep These Pigeons That I Have Know But I Want To Get Good Stock So I Can Compete In The Club. Do Any Of You Guys Know Were I Can Get Good Stock For A Cheap Price Maybe From One Of The Members Or Someone.i Dont Know Any Of My Birds Background So Dont Know If They Are Good Blood.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi Lefty,

As for the ventilation in the loft you want to for one, make sure you have plenty of it, and second that at no time will the birds be in a direct draft.

As for the good stock birds. I found something today you might be interested in. I have 5 breeder pair from some of Randy Hills, Hillsfamilyloft's best stock. Because of space the breeders are still together and when they lay I put wooden eggs under them. One of Randy's breeder pairs found a place to hide and Today I found a pair of about four or five day old babies. I will band them in a day or two. If you want them and are willing to pay for the box & shipping ( about $45.00) I will send them to you when they are ready.

Ace


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

do you really mean it. so that will be in around 23 days when they are weaned right. ill start saving saving for the shipping starting today. i already have the shipping box.all i need is instructions on how to send it if you want you can p.m or contact me at [email protected] if you want to contact me by phone my phone number is 305 222 1894 you can call anytime, or you can send me your phone and i will contact you.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I have a box here, you don't need to send one. I will get with you when it gets closer to the time to ship them.

Ace


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

ok ill be counting the days thanks alot for helping a beginner.i will be posting some pics today later on on the before


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*pictures*


http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/SL270232.jpg. just trying to see if it works


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*pictures of loft*

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture044.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture039.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture040.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture041.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture042.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture043.jpg
the before i will post after later on. going to paint inside and outside exept the floor.needs works right guys when i built it spent total of 250 dollars.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

Finished Painting Loft Inside And Out Today Will Post Pics Later And I Also Built A 10 Box Breeding Cage I Think It Came Out Good.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*the after almost done*

i have spent the last week working on my loft and i am almost done only missing parts of the trap and some little things on the inside but not much.i think it looks better now, a little more appealing to the eye. tell me what you guys think or give me some tips on what else i can do.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*pics what do you think*


http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture070.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture071.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture072.jpg


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you have pics of the whole thing? I only saw the trap.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*pics of my loft remodeled*



http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture074.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture064.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture065.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture066.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture068.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture057.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture058.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture059.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture060.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture061.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture062.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture063.jpg


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

yes i have pics just posted them


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice remodeling lefty! you surely did improved your loft. good luck on your hobby.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks A Lot Im Only 16 Not The Best Carpenter


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you did a great job.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks a lot


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I think it looks nice Lefty. I also think this pair of Hill's Blue Aces will be very happy with their new home. They are doing good, and just starting to feather out. Can't tell yet blue check or blue bar?

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

lefty1991 said:


> Thanks A Lot Im Only 16 Not The Best Carpenter


You've done a good job with the remodeling...........16 and not the best carpenter doesn't matter. You've tried and done a good job and your birds will be happy. THAT'S what counts.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

thanks for all the nice comments and nice to hear that the youngbirds are doing fine ace.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

lefty1991 said:


> Thanks A Lot Im Only 16 Not The Best Carpenter


hey.... you did a good job...really good JOB...


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey Lefty,

It looks like you will have two more birds in that loft next week. These little ones will be ready to ship to you next Teuseday. There is one blue check and one dark check, both with a small splash of white behind the eyes. Now you will have to find two more birds worthy of being their mates.

PM me with your shipping address and we will be all set to ship.

Ace


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

When I get time, I will get the pedigrees sent to you via email. If anyone knows any fliers in the Miami area that will help Lefty out with quality birds and not culls you might give them a call. Would like the offspring of these birds to win him a race or two. A couple more late hatches would help out. Be nice if he could beat the old guys. 

Randy


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## k0n0ha-easy (Jul 1, 2008)

Wow, you got some talent. Come help me remodel my loft hehe.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

*Breeders ready to go*

Lefty, I have 4 breeders available for you that will start breeding right away. Late hatches may not breed until later in the year next year and you need to breed early in your area if you are to compete with the tough flyers you have down there. These are not culls and are proven breeders of the same line I sent to Ace. Their full brother just bred a 1st place winner for me last week at 250 miles. I am going to fly OB next year and have too many breeders and need to cut back. They are houben and Janssen bloodlines. I have the 4 bird box and can send anytime you are ready. Not sure what shipping would cost but it would be only the actual cost not inflated. These breeders brothers and sisters have bred diploma winners in all parts of the country but I dont have any of my stock in the Fla area yet so this would be a good test for them down there. Call me at 847-436-2152 to discuss arrangements.
Ken
K & D Lofts


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Looks like lefty is going to have some good stock to found his loft. Thanks all for stepping up and helping the young guys. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

im so exited


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

The loft looks great. One thing though when you start racing make sure your birds don't stop at my loft. I have already had two birds from your local club come into my loft. 

Good luck to you


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

from sche
they fly up north longest race i think is 500 or 600 where are you located


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Palm Bay. I found one hen in bad shape in my parents yard. Another cock bird came in with my birds on a 25 mile toss. He left but was in my loft 3 days later. I also know another member here picked up a hen found malnourished in a persons shed. They are easy to spot because of the electronic rings.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

right know i have 6 pairs of breeders of unknown blood i dont want to waste them and give them away i was thinking of doing this. since i am getting a pair of birds from ace and 2 pairs from whitesnmore that gives me 3 pairs.so if i use the six pairs i have now and use them as pumpers i will increase the number of youngbirds significantly. by doing this i will increase the chances of sucess.when the youngbirds are ready to fly i can use some of the pumpers to help them start flying and to encourage them. do you guys think this is a good idea.i have a 10 individual breeding boxes that go on the outside of the loft and dont take up space in the inside.i will post a pic of it.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

oh yes they use the electronic timing system.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

most of the flyers have tossed theyre birds at least 40 miles on the line of flight.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Pumpers are a great idea. I use a few pairs as pumpers. They are more than happy to raise youngsters that are not theirs. You may even get some late hatches out of the new breeders that you can race old birds with. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

*individual breeding boxes*

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture061.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o379/lefty26_photos/Picture062.jpg


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

how many birds do you think i can raise with 6 pairs of pumpers.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Enough to fill your loft in one season. Keep in mind whether you know the blood of your birds or not does not make them bad. They may actually be great birds. Training and health play a big part in a race as well.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

yeah i know but i think its a little better to know where your birds at least came from so you wont be wasting money on birds that might not have what it takes.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

ace can you send me a pic of the birds


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Here are some pic of your new kids Lefty. I do not feel they are eating on there own yet so we will have to wait until next Monday to ship them. 

View attachment 10115


View attachment 10116


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Ace shoot me the band numbers and I will make up pedigrees for Lefty. Looking good. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I also missed which pair they are off of. If you could refresh my memory. 

Thanks

Randy


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

There parents are BC Cock DRO 1366 and BC Hen DRO 1349. Their band #s are DC 5429 & BC 5433.

They are not as fat and sassy as they could be because the birds have not been on my breeders mix.

Ace


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

They should make a good addition. 1366 is off a full Vic Miller bird and a Janssen bird. The Janssen is a little hen thats grandparents are out of Janssen brothers loft via Mike Ganus. They are down from the 019, Zitter and all the greats. The Vic Miller bird has a bit of Jos Thone in him. 

1349 is off a brother to 1366 and a sister to my futurity winner. These should be a nice set of breeders. Some notables in this side of the pedigree are the Miller Cock, Piet Valk, Calia, and Sonny Scott. These have been very good birds for me. 

I am with Lefty, I would much rather breed from birds I know their background then to take a chance on something I know nothing about. I do not think Lefty wants to fill his loft with mediocre birds that don't have a chance to win. Chances are that if someone sold him those birds and did not tell him what they were down from, that chances are they are they will not breed champions. Using them for pumpers is a good choice. These two may not breed him winners, but their parents and brothers and sisters all have. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

ace the birds are beautiful . the dark check one is bigger than its nestmate.do you have any offspring of this mating in your race team.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Working on the Peds almost finished. See if I can post a pic.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am just playing now. Here is 1366's brothers race record. I love Hawkeye.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

The only thing I do not like about the race record is it does not show you how many birds were in the race. The birds ranged from 165 to 420 birds in these races. I will have to play with it. I have not added his young bird races. He was top three three times against 250ish birds. This is a bird I would love to have back. I am breeding from five siblings and the parents. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

wow the pedigree is really good the bloodlines are one that i am sure that will win in the club. the club average in youngbirds aroung 800 to 1000 birds in club races and in the combine around 1600 to 2200 birds so they will be tested good.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

whitesnmore offered me two pair of breeders that he said are good bloodlines now what i am not sure about is if to mate them with the ones ace is going to give me or should i make two families and maake those four a seperate family to see which ones perform bettewr.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

these are more sprint birds right


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

These birds can go from 100 to 350ish as young birds and 100 - 400 as old birds. The Vic Miller bloodline is good to these distances and beyond. If you look deep in the peds you will see a bird "David's Perfection". This bird won the combine against over a 1000 birds at both 400 and 500. They are crossed in with Janssens that have done well up to 300. They are 1/4 my middle distance futurity bird that win up to 350 miles as young birds. They are showing their strenght from 150 to 250 miles. 

So the answer to your question is that they could be classified as a speed/middle distance bird. You need to win at 225, put the money on these guys.

The main club I fly with has 100mile, 125mile, 2 x 150mile, 2 x 200 miles, 250mile a 300 mile bond race. This family was developed for these races. 

My middle distance futurity birds are bred to win the bond race at 300miles and futurities. 

I do have two Van Reet/Vic Miller pairs that is also strong in the 100 to 250 range. 

Hope this answers your question. The two you have are 3/4s the first bunch x 1/4 the futurity blood. 

They could breed speed into middle distance birds without compromising reliablility. You are looking like 1200 to 1400 ypm as youngbirds and up to 1700ypm as old. This is from real times from this family. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

If I am not mistaken the other birds you have comming are Kieser Janssens crossed with Houben. These would cross in just fine. The Vic Miller birds are Janssen based going back to the Verbart 46 from a egg from De Klak. This familiy is a premeir Middle distance family owing the 330mile Snow Bird Race. Study your races if the majority are up to 350 as young birds and up to say 400 as old birds, this will give you a good family up to here. If you have 400 and 500 mile races you might want a family of longer distance birds. 

A bird you will see in the peds is the "08". She is Bob Kinney bloodline. These birds can go to 500. 

So I think what you have will be a family of solid fast middle distance birds. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

so do you think i should cross those two bloodlines or should i keep them seperate.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

here are the distances they fly


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

oldbirs schedule distance in miles 180,230,230,280,280,330,380,440,500,380,440,500,440,520,440.
youngbirds
120,160,185,185,235,235,285,285,320. i think with your birds it will be perfect to race them until the program gets to 380 and then cross some of the ones that do good with a long distance bloodline and see how it worksout. or in another scenario i can acquire a long distance bloodline and keep them pure. i can also test yours all the way and see how they do in the longer distances .


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Being as the two are nestmates I would cross them into the other family. You may then cross the offspring back into the parents then establish your families from there. With your limited space, I am thinking I would keep the two pairs you are getting and then find two other birds to cross into these. You could even breed some late hatches out of the birds you are getting an cross these back to the Hill birds. You could settle them and race them old birds later. Use the others as pumpers and then establish a nice flyteam of young birds. 

Randy


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, Is what I would say to crossing these families together. I will be doing this myself for next years team. I will know how well they cross. If I don't have any luck with what I get out of them I will send you something next year that will cross well with these two. That was part of the deal I made with Randy. I will be crossing the best of his stock to some of the best of the other stock I have on my team this year. I need to know what birds will cross well together. At this point I know three people who will gain from this. Myself of corse, Randy, and now you Lefty.

Ace


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

you see you guys understand you have been very helpful.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have had good luck taking siblings, crossing them out and then putting the cousins back together. Many of the best flliers from Ace have been paired this way. 5495, 5465, 5491 are all of this breeding strategy. The have given him 2x1st, 2nd,4th, 7th, and 21st. This sets you up for offspring that are 50% the desired bloodline. You can then cross them into the originals and obtain 75% of the bloodline in two generations. Not a bad way to work it. 

If I were to obtain siblings off of Ace's best pair next year this is how I would breed them to establish a mini family of the bloodline. I would cross them into offspring off of my best in hope to strengthen or better my birds. 

My other breeding strategy is to mate nieces and nephews with aunts and uncles. The Janssen brothers were famous for this. The birds you will be getting are of this breeding strategy. You start with the uncle 1366 mated with his niece who is 1/2 the bloodline. This give you vigor and desired traits from the new blood. In this case reliablility and the 300 mile mark as added traits. I do this off of proven breeding pairs. In this case 1366 and 1349 chose each other. It worked on paper so I sent them to Ace. There is some good blood in those youngsters. Keep in mind of my 12 original birds 8 of them have their mark on your two birds. All 8 have bred me winners. 

Randy


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

since i have limited space at the moment and i am going to have more birds i am going to add on to my loft i have lots of space to add on about 15 feet in space length wise so if i need to go bigger i can.as ace said that we will benifit from this very much. i was thinking how the weather will affect the birds since where ace is its a lot cooler and less humid.here in miami its really humid and really hot.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

yes i know that was what i was thinking of doing . the only thing since i get a little confused i have to plan it out on paper, but i understand where you are coming from.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

can you explain to me how to use the pumpers and how do you basically do it im kind of confused. do you know any articles on it or something so i can get a better understanding.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Basically you pair your birds at the same time. This should mean they all lay near the same time. You replace the pumpers eggs with your stock birds eggs. So this way the pumpers will begin laying on the stock birds eggs and the stock birds will relay in 10 days. So you double the numbers of babies from the stock birds in much less time. Now the babies will be around 10 days apart as opposed to 2-4 weeks.

The picture below is a perfect example. Thats my show king with some delbar homer squeakers.


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

oh i get you thanks a lot


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## lefty1991 (Jan 23, 2008)

ace i think we are going to have a problem with the shipping of the birds. if you have watched the news lately you will probably hear about hurricane ike its at category 3. it is not 100% sure but in the worst case scenario it will hit miami hopefully not. you will have to hold on to the birds a couple more days. it this does happen the weather will begin to detiriorate starting on tuesday and thats when you said they would be ready.i dont want the birds to be stuck somewhere in a delivery truck with 90 degree plus weather outside. im just letting you know just in case.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Lefty, I'll keep an eye on that.

Ace


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey lefty

Did you get the birds Ace sent you? He told me that he sent them out last week. Let me know if that pedigree that I posted was sufficient. I can send them via email if not. Keep us posted on how they do. 

Randy


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