# A word to the wise !!



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Since racing season has started in most states here in the USA,it is the time when STRAY pigeons come in contact with your pigeons....They may land on your loft,and try to enter it.....Do yourself and your birds a BIG favor,and do NOT let any STRAYS get into your loft.....Feed and water them OUTSIDE your loft,if you cannot catch it....If you catch the bird,put it in a cage away from your birds and feed it for a couple of days..If it is healthy looking,and wants to get out,let it go home.....I had a lost BBH at my loft last week....I caught it,and put it into my extra cage I have for new matings,or stray birds etc...The band letters were NGC,which is a club out of Baltimore MD......I fed the bird for two days...She looked healthy,and wanted to go home,so I opened the door,and she went straight East making no turns.....So I did the bird and her owner a favor by caring for it,and did myself a BIG FAVOR by not letting her get into my loft....
Everyone`s happy !!! So a word to the wise to you all....Take care of a stray bird,but do not let it into your loft......Alamo


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

It is a good idea not to let a stray into your loft. But I don't see it all that big of a deal for sombody who's birds are healthy and have good immune systems. If your birds get sick from a stray in or on your loft they're gonna get sick once you ship them to a race and their mixed with 20 to 30 birds in a race crate plus the other 2000 birds crammed into the truck. In a way I think you'd be better off having them get sick from the stray now if they are gonna get sick at all then atleast the bird would build up some immunity to somthing it's probly gonna catch in the race crate anyway. I can tell from the race results the guys who don't know how to keep their birds healthy after being mixed in with all the other birds. They are the guys who do good in the first few races then drop to the bottom of the sheets. It's because they don't know how to spot a problem b4 it get's to far or if they do spot somthing they don't know what's needed to fix it. And Alamo I know you have it where your birds go in their own crate but most places I know the birds are mixed in the race crates. But like this year with me I've got birds from all over the place for the IF Convention, the LBRA Auction and the Great South Bay Classic. They've all been mixed in with my birds and I did have a problem where I had a few sick birds who died. But 99% of the birds stayed healthy. And I feel that now the birds that stayed healthy have proved to have a strong immune system so I shouldn't have any problems with them once they get mixed with other birds in the race crates.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Any stray around here will find not comfort or aid. I do everything I can to make sure my birds are healthy and vermin free. That will include allowing no strays if it/they show up!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> Any stray around here will find not comfort or aid. I do everything I can to make sure my birds are healthy and vermin free. That will include allowing no strays if it/they show up!


IF it were one of your birds, wouldn't you want someone to help it? At least feed and water it?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> Any stray around here will find not comfort or aid. I do everything I can to make sure my birds are healthy and vermin free. That will include allowing no strays if it/they show up!


Are you saying that one stray bird will more likely get your birds sick compared to many birds in the race crate? It doesn't make sense statistically, but I do understand about protecting our flocks. And it is true that stray bird will be isolated from the flock just like any new bird.

Usually stray birds looked messed up, hungry, thirsty or even injured. They are asking for help. Unfortunately it could also mean that they suck at homing or was sick when raced--so the health concern.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I can tell from the race results the guys who don't know how to keep their birds healthy after being mixed in with all the other birds. They are the guys who do good in the first few races then drop to the bottom of the sheets.


I thought those were called "short distance flyiers"


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> IF it were one of your birds, wouldn't you want someone to help it? At least feed and water it?


No. Leave it alone.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

RodSD said:


> Are you saying that one stray bird will more likely get your birds sick compared to many birds in the race crate? It doesn't make sense statistically, but I do understand about protecting our flocks. And it is true that stray bird will be isolated from the flock just like any new bird.
> 
> Usually stray birds looked messed up, hungry, thirsty or even injured. They are asking for help. Unfortunately it could also mean that they suck at homing or was sick when raced--so the health concern.


I do not gamble, not even a lottery ticket. So statistics or playing the odds is not something I do. I did not raise the stray and it is not welcome in my loft or some cage of mine. A rabbit in the field that does not run from you is not asking for your help. It is sick. If the stray can't find anything to eat or drink it too is sick since all the other seed eating birds native to the area can and do.

No strays here period.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> I do not gamble, not even a lottery ticket. So statistics or playing the odds is not something I do. I did not raise the stray and it is not welcome in my loft or some cage of mine. A rabbit in the field that does not run from you is not asking for your help. It is sick. If the stray can't find anything to eat or drink it too is sick since all the other seed eating birds native to the area can and do.
> 
> No strays here period.


 You are one cold hearted soul but I already knew that from your earlier posts , you just care about yourself and have no tact in the scheme of living things , thats just sad .


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

now now guys lets not put anyone under the flame 

I think looking at it in a generous/kind way we should help other pigeons out to the best of our ability if we truly are pigeon lovers. Giving food/water is not a bad idea as sometimes all a lost bird needs is some energy to return home. Or if you have a small area to confine the bird until it has rested thats also very good. No one is asking anyone to put a sick bird with your healthy pigeons. Thats the whole point of quarantine. I wouldn't recommend anyone to keep lost/sick pigeons with their healthy pigeons but if you can save a life, a cardboard box at the very least could be organized without much trouble. 

Have a heart for the pigeons atleast, this world's full of cruel people already


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

When stray bird traps on mine, I go to my loft right away and take that bird out and put it in a cage after inspecting it and give food and water. Usually they can recover in a couple of days and I let them fly home. Many times it is only for 2 days. The only worst thing that ever happened to me was when I acquired lice from a stray bird. But usually those birds are out of shape for quite some time either hanging out with ferals or some unknown places. Now I ended up a habit of dusting stray bird before putting it in a cage. So there is indeed some health issue to take into perspective when these things happen.

Obviously there should be absolutely no stray bird on stock loft! I would go with rpalmer on that one.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

PigeonVilla said:


> You are one cold hearted soul but I already knew that from your earlier posts , you just care about yourself and have no tact in the scheme of living things , thats just sad .


If you look, you will see my age. What you can't see are my life experiences. I care much more about many things than I care for myself. One of those things are my birds. I also find that "tact" can often lead to interpretation. So on things that I consider important, I leave no room for interpretation. After you get a few years under your belt and white in your beard, I hope you can recall this and see it in the light of wisdom. Take care. Enjoy your birds and life.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

PIGEON0446......You are correct in many ways about letting a stray bird mix in with YOUR birds in New York...Because ALL the birds get mixed in crates when racing....But I do my own MIXING each year by BUYING 2 or 3 Auction birds in our Combine`s Auction from other lofts....If you read a post by me that my Droppers got real sick,and I thought they were going to die 2 weeks after I brought the NEW YB`s I bought at Auction home..All the YB`s had to pick up whatever they had,and they were fine with it...But the droppers almost lost their lives...All I put in the water was ACV for 7 days,and the droppers are just fine,and sitting on eggs.....But I still don`t like mixing a STRAY with either my stock birds or Old Bird team,or my YB`s......Since I do not innoculate my birds for anything,I would rather refrain from letting a stray mingle in for a few days....My Yb`s are still very young....The only time my birds get in with others is in the $$$ races staring the end of Sept.....By that time,they have built up a pretty good immunity.....Alamo
PS:I still beleive in HELPING a stray recover it`s strenght so it can go home...I hope others will/would do the same for one of mine dummies who get lost..hahahahaha!!!!!


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

I have to admit that the Pigeon war games played in NY, Was Catching Strays! Whether it was Mixing your flock with others owners flocks in the Air, or trying to lure lone birds that my have strayed from a other flock… But these Prisoners where always kept apart from my stock flyers in another coop or section… Feral or sick Birds weren’t tolerated with in any way, shape or form… I am very or at least try to be very Tactful & Respectful in Particular on how I address others on the way they care for their birds. But to call someone a “cold hearted soul” because they don’t agree, relate, adhere to someone’s since of Ideologies or moral standards is merely another’s state of mind in respects of what each individual’s holds dear! I try to listen, read, see and learn from others too try and understand and make since of what they do with their birds in order to help me and my birds to achieve a better state of overall Wellness for my flock… Just because someone else doesn’t or is not willing to tolerate sick or rogue strays in their loft implies or makes them callous or a “cold hearted soul” for that fact the same goes or should & would apply to folks that house & care or treat, Virus infected ETC birds that are not Avian Veterinarians Or really don’t for the most part have Proper Quarantine Isolation facilities or stations like The CDC “Centers for Disease Control” and that maybe propagating or reproducing another resistance strain of super Virus??? What would you call those Folks??? A “Kind Hearted Soul” who’s intent was to HELP!!! Soo we really do need to look at both side of the Coin and weigh out which is Apparently or Advisedly in most case’s far more lethal to our Sport. The one Person(s) that doesn’t deal with sick virus effected ETC birds or The Person(s) that assumes they are doing Right by “Sick Virus Effected ETC birds” because it makes them feel better at the end of the day…!!! Now we all need to Address and Consider both side of the coin again within ourselves because at the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter which side you take! The coin always retains its same value to everyone its just our Perspective’s & Values are that differs on whose holding that Coin…!... Louie


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## OldStrain (Jan 25, 2011)

One thing very different with a stray compared to putting your Birds into a race truck or bringing in a few auction birds is that they are lost, stressed and God knows where they have been, who they been mingling with and what they have eaten or drank. I am super cautious when it comes to a stray. And if someone thinks ill of me because I care for my Birds…Too Bad…I follow the same routine for one of my own Birds thay has been lost for more than a few days


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeonmumbler said:


> I have to admit that the Pigeon war games played in NY, Was Catching Strays! Whether it was Mixing your flock with others owners flocks in the Air, or trying to lure lone birds that my have strayed from a other flock… But these Prisoners where always kept apart from my stock flyers in another coop or section… Feral or sick Birds weren’t tolerated with in any way, shape or form… I am very or at least try to be very Tactful & Respectful in Particular on how I address others on the way they care for their birds. But to call someone a “cold hearted soul” because they don’t agree, relate, adhere to someone’s since of Ideologies or moral standards is merely another’s state of mind in respects of what each individual’s holds dear! I try to listen, read, see and learn from others too try and understand and make since of what they do with their birds in order to help me and my birds to achieve a better state of overall Wellness for my flock… Just because someone else doesn’t or is not willing to tolerate sick or rogue strays in their loft implies or makes them callous or a “cold hearted soul”* for that fact the same goes or should & would apply to folks that house & care or treat, Virus infected ETC birds that are not Avian Veterinarians Or really don’t for the most part have Proper Quarantine Isolation facilities or stations like The CDC “Centers for Disease Control” and that maybe propagating or reproducing another resistance strain of super Virus??? What would you call those Folks??? A “Kind Hearted Soul” who’s intent was to HELP!!! *Soo we really do need to look at both side of the Coin and weigh out which is Apparently or Advisedly in most case’s far more lethal to our Sport. The one Person(s) that doesn’t deal with sick virus effected ETC birds or The Person(s) that assumes they are doing Right by “Sick Virus Effected ETC birds” because it makes them feel better at the end of the day…!!! Now we all need to Address and Consider both side of the coin again within ourselves because at the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter which side you take! The coin always retains its same value to everyone its just our Perspective’s & Values are that differs on whose holding that Coin…!... Louie




That is ridiculous. There are lots of people who will take in a sick bird, and treat that bird until he is again healthy. If releasable, then release him.They also have vets to consult with. They_ are_ kept isolated until proven to be healthy. To say that they need to have facilities like the CDC, or that they could be reproducing another resistant strain of super Virus is ludicrous. And no, they wouldn't be called, "Kind Hearted Soulls". They would be called rehabbers and rescuers. And thank God for them. Because of them, many poor birds are saved. If every one had the attitude of just ignoring a bird in trouble, or any other animal who needs help, what a sad and uncaring world this would be. Usually, the compassion one feels and shows to Gods other creatures, is the same compassion one feels and shows to other human beings. Compassion is compassion. Either you have it or you don't. Each to his own I guess.


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> That is ridiculous. There are lots of people who will take in a sick bird, and treat that bird until he is again healthy. If releasable, then release him.They also have vets to consult with. They_ are_ kept isolated until proven to be healthy. To say that they need to have facilities like the CDC, or that they could be reproducing another resistant strain of super Virus is ludicrous. And no, they wouldn't be called, "Kind Hearted Soulls". They would be called rehabbers and rescuers. And thank God for them. Because of them, many poor birds are saved. If every one had the attitude of just ignoring a bird in trouble, or any other animal who needs help, what a sad and uncaring world this would be. Usually, the compassion one feels and shows to Gods other creatures, is the same compassion one feels and shows to other human beings. Compassion is compassion. Either you have it or you don't. Each to his own I guess.


Thank you, That was the same excitably and ludicrous points of views, I seen when they called “rpalmer”... 

*“You are one cold hearted soul but I already knew that from your earlier posts , you just care about yourself and have no tact in the scheme of living things , thats just sad”*

Why because he doesn’t agree with others Points of view…???… And so that’s why I posed a flip side and Outlandish & Over exaggerated view on how others maybe seen…!!!… I was making a Point!

And so then I ended it with, And I will quote myself… 

*"Now we all need to Address and Consider both side of the coin again within ourselves because at the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter which side you take! The coin always retains its same value to everyone its just our Perspective’s & Values are that differs on whose holding that Coin…!... Louie"*


If you feel offended, I Apologize... But who’s Apologizing to “Rpalmer”???
So I guess there are folks that only do see only one side of the Coin...!!!

Louie


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Your right everyone is allowed to have their own opinion but I would hope one would respect the birds a little more when we are the ones throwing them out into the world to begin with. They do all the work and many die trying to get home each week for us humans to brag about them and their abilities .The least one could do is help them on their way if and when the need arises .It not only aids the pigeons themselves but it also aids the sport/hobby of pigeon keeping altogether .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You're right. Unfortunately, too many people just don't care. And many don't seem to understand that just because wild birds can find food, pigeons who have lived in a loft all their life, don't know how to find food on their own. They show up starving all the time. If you say you care about your birds, then it is pretty hard to fathom how the same person can look at an injured, or sick, or lost bird, and just not care. Something wrong in that.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> You're right. Unfortunately, too many people just don't care. And many don't seem to understand that just because wild birds can find food, pigeons who have lived in a loft all their life, don't know how to find food on their own. They show up starving all the time. If you say you care about your birds, then it is pretty hard to fathom how the same person can look at an injured, or sick, or lost bird, and just not care. Something wrong in that.


Spend some time reading different posts about lost birds. Do you or anyone else for that matter actually believe that these birds either perish because of not being able to find food and water or that they go through life from one loft to the next getting their feed and water? Really what do you think happens to these pigeons that never return home? I will bet you a cup of coffee that neither happens to them. Yes a few will be fresh meat for a bird of prey but only a few. The rest live the life they have either chosen or been handed, just like us people.

Generosity, compassion and other noble deeds start at home. And at this home my birds will always come before some stray bird. To allow preventable suffering is one of the true few wrongs in this life. I will not cause my birds to suffer. 

I live the the heart of the city and any bird can be afforded food and water the year round if from know where else that bird feeders, bird baths and the city parks. Apparently most of the complainers of post either lack these things or, as I suspect, never considered these sources. 

Anytime you have the thought " I have to catch that bird(s)", you are doing the wrong thing. You can, will and have justified it. But it is the wrong thing to do. 

Jay3, this turned into a little rant which is not actually directed at you. So with that everyone enjoy your pigeons.


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## Pigeonmumbler (Jun 6, 2010)

I just find some folks so contradicting on how to argue against the truth or correctness of somebody's else’s statement or claim’s of how is it that others can’t or don’t have a sense of Morale & compassion or how they should care for Strays or Sick birds in each owns loft… I really just find it all to be such a conundrum!!! If its hurtful for some to see birds suffer, Then why mix your birds with thousands of other birds in a truck stuffed in crates that may expose them to a potential virus and send them off 400+ miles away to force the poor birds to race home in the rain, hawks, wires or happy go lucky rifle wielding hunters or simply wishing some may or won’t make it! So you then can get a $25.00 dollar trophy or ribbon around your neck that you can boast about or to see other Breeders of Fancy Show birds that will never fly or get exposed to the outside elements of the loft, that have been reduced to a mere piece of colorful Jell-o wiggling in a Show cage… But then to lecture on how others should have pity or sympathy on such birds that may have diseases, Virus etc that fall a stray on others loft and to have a few of these same folks call me or others heartless Souls??? I once was told and corrected by an old Pigeon Flying Fancier that asked me the Following’ Hey Louie do you love your birds, Do you care & feed them the best your money can offer and don’t want to see them get sick or lost??? “Yes” I answered,,, Then don’t let them Out, He replied…!…When the birds are in your coop they belong to you,,, and you have total control of them,,, but when you let them out to fly they no longer belong to you and what others do or don’t do to your birds is totally out of your Control & your Fault and only have yourself to blame…! Wild birds are wild birds, your lost flying fancy’s or homers are your fault if they have gone a stray! And once you release them from your loft for what ever the reason may be, they don’t belong to you anymore and how other treat them is no longer a concern of yours because they are just looking out for their own birds wellness… So for that few “He that is without sin among you” Go throw or play with rocks in your own House of Glass…!…I have enough work & responsibility keeping my beloved, happy & healthy Flying birds free from Pestilence Strays… Oh yeah, before I forget! If any of you folks know a Homer racer & AU member in Deland Fl, that goes by the name of Mr. Guy Johnson, Give him a call and ask him how many of his stray homer birds I have returned to him before you start to Judge or throw Rocks my way!!!

Louie


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I suppose there are 2 or 3 camps here. Those that help these birds(like Jay3). Those that don't (like rpalmer). Then those that are in between. I am in between because I like to help, but at the same I want to protect my birds so a stray should be assumed sick and be isolated, and cared for if needed.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

*Race results*

Jay3 & PigeonVilla,

Do you guys fly all races?
Have you won your Combine?

just curious how your theory stacks with results...pm is fine


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

If I were to get a lost bird in my loft I would put it aside feed it and water it and find its owner. Now I had a feral in with mine, it was black with white flights a very pretty bird. At that time that he had come into the loft my birds were just getting over e-cloli. But I let the feral eat then I released him back outside. 

I really don't see why if you had a separate area and you got in a banded homer or fancy pigeon in your loft why you wouldn't just put the bird aside feed it and try contacting the owner?


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

First To Hatch said:


> I really don't see why if you had a separate area and you got in a banded homer or fancy pigeon in your loft why you wouldn't just put the bird aside feed it and try contacting the owner?


"Caring" for pigeon can go both ways, some guys will hold a bird from a good clean loft, so it doesn't clock well, where it may have made really good time to the loft it stopped at my mistake, and possibly clock well home if immediately released.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ccccrnr said:


> Jay3 & PigeonVilla,
> 
> Do you guys fly all races?
> Have you won your Combine?
> ...



Sorry, can't give you racing results from this end. I have a loft full of rescues. Birds that were injured and couldn't make it home, fancies that somehow got loose, and were starving to death because they didn't know how to find food. I will agree that some birds will join a feral flock and be able to learn and survive on their own, but many never do. They just starve to death, because they don't know how to find food. Or they become pray to a predator because they don't know about them either. Sometimes they are injured and need help. I see it all the time, so anyone who really believes that an injured or lost bird will always make it out there on their own is just so wrong. I know better.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> Jay3 & PigeonVilla,
> 
> Do you guys fly all races?
> Have you won your Combine?
> ...


What does ones results have to do with helping a lost pigeon on its way home?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> What does ones results have to do with helping a lost pigeon on its way home?


It has nothing to do with it. Just didn't have anything else to say. Like I said, you either have compassion or you don't. And if you don't, then you just aren't going to get it. So explaining and arguing is a waste of time. Won't change anything.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Sorry, can't give you racing results from this end. I have a loft full of rescues. Birds that were injured and couldn't make it home, fancies that somehow got loose, and were starving to death because they didn't know how to find food. I will agree that some birds will join a feral flock and be able to learn and survive on their own, but many never do. They just starve to death, because they don't know how to find food. Or they become pray to a predator because they don't know about them either. Sometimes they are injured and need help. I see it all the time, so anyone who really believes that an injured or lost bird will always make it out there on their own is just so wrong. I know better.


 I agree with Jay3 here , you have to be kidding me that you think out of all those thousands of birds lost each year in smash races or even just off the loft that they are out there living the high life under an overpass or on some ledge somewhere. If that were true you would see thousands of banded birds everywhere you see pigeons which for some reason in all the places I goto that pigeons flock I will see next to none ,most places your lucky if you come across one in a flock of hundred . To this date in all my 29 years of having pigeons I have yet to get one back let alone a call from someone that has come across one of my birds . You can do what you want but you are spinning yarns if your going to try and tell me they are all out there somewhere alive and well just that nobody ever sees them again . No one is telling you to put them in with your birds or to take them in. Its just like Alamo said maybe you can help them along on their way home .How can we respect you if you cant even respect the bird.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> It has nothing to do with it. Just didn't have anything else to say. Like I said, you either have compassion or you don't. And if you don't, then you just aren't going to get it. So explaining and arguing is a waste of time. Won't change anything.


well said.
Everyone is looking for something different to get from their pigeons, that they put lots of expense into. 
Guys that race pigeons usually want to win races.
you don't sound like you Require that satisfaction from you pigeons

to each their own, 
don't beat up guys for being honest about their plans to achieve their goals


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> It has nothing to do with it. Just didn't have anything else to say. Like I said, you either have compassion or you don't. And if you don't, then you just aren't going to get it. So explaining and arguing is a waste of time. Won't change anything.


 You are so right , one would think with all the time spent with their birds by now they would get it but I guess there is just nothing more to say about it so we will just do what we do .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ccccrnr said:


> well said.
> Everyone is looking for something different to get from their pigeons, that they put lots of expense into.
> Guys that race pigeons usually want to win races.
> you don't sound like you Require that satisfaction from you pigeons
> ...


Achieving their goals is one thing, but has nothing to do with helping or not helping a bird that is not their own. Just hard for those of us who care to understand someone just ignoring a sick or injured or starving bird. I mean, come on, how much does it take to feed and water a bird and help it out. Doesn't take much. No one said that you should let it mix with your birds. It just takes a little compassion is all. Like I said...............either you get it or you don't, so no point arguing over it. Like everything else. Some care and some don't.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

There is a lady that feeds the wild pigeons about 20 miles from my loft...She has about 8 RC`s in the group of 200 plus pigeons...Not a one has a band on it`s leg....I would have thought that at least one of the RC`s would have been banded.....She told me in all the years that she has been feeding the birds,she has only seen about 10 that had bands on their legs..They stay around for a few days,then disapear..She wanted to know what happens to them...I told her after a few days rest,and some good food,it`s time to go home...She was happy that she was helping them to make it back home...I told her thanks for the help,just in case one of the birds was one of mine.....Alamo


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Alamo said:


> There is a lady that feeds the wild pigeons about 20 miles from my loft...She has about 8 RC`s in the group of 200 plus pigeons...Not a one has a band on it`s leg....I would have thought that at least one of the RC`s would have been banded.....She told me in all the years that she has been feeding the birds,she has only seen about 10 that had bands on their legs..They stay around for a few days,then disapear..She wanted to know what happens to them...I told her after a few days rest,and some good food,it`s time to go home...She was happy that she was helping them to make it back home...I told her thanks for the help,just in case one of the birds was one of mine.....Alamo


lol I hope they were yours , at least that ment they had a home to go home to. I apprecaite that you care about the birds in general as its they that are the ones that carry us through , not the other way around .


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

My experience also tells me that lost racers either starve to death, or get taken by predators. Basically these birds are almost clueless where to find food. In fact I decided to give my birds some bread at one time and they had no clue what to do with it. But I taught them to forage on the ground for grass/weed seeds.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I beleive that OLD pigeons,that have been raced for three or more years,have a better chance to survive out in the wild,if they are not hurt,or very sick....I have been told of a homing pigeon walk into a home next to my inlaws house...Fly up on the kitchen chair and kinda beg for food....The lady gave the pigeon some wild bird seed,and water...The bird ate all the seeds,and drank water...It then fly to the doorway any took off and went away....I know this doesen`t happen every day,but OLD birds are very savvy,and when they are starving and thirsty,they will go to a human being for help.....Now YOUNG BIRDS are a different story...I beleive 90% of them die of starvation/thirst.....If they do not come accross a group of homing pigeons,or fancy birds flying around,they will be hawk prey,or just die where ever they are.....Sad but true,sorry to say......Alamo


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Whenever I catch a stray, I always contact the owner and let him decide what he wants to do with it. If it's an old bird, the owner would say to release it after a few days (the thought is the bird recuperates by then). If it's a fairly young bird, I've had owners tell me to try and settle the bird and perhaps race it if possible. If the bird survives the racing season, the owner gives me the option of keeping it and he/she will send me a pedigree, or shipping it back to the owner.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ccccrnr said:


> well said.
> Everyone is looking for something different to get from their pigeons, that they put lots of expense into.
> Guys that race pigeons usually want to win races.
> you don't sound like you Require that satisfaction from you pigeons
> ...


Everybody who races wants to win if not why would you be racing. But you don't have to heartless to win pigeon races either. I know plenty of guys who think you have to be and do unheard of things that they think is needed to win. But I'm proof you don't have to be heartless to win races. And if you need some proof of that just look on the IF websites and look at their awards from the 2010 YB's you'll see me on there a few times with Hall of Fame birds and for Champion Loft. I'll also be up there for the 2011 OB season when they make up the lists. Since I already have a bird that qualifies for the Hall of Fame and I've got pretty good results so far so I'll be up there for champion loft. I've won 2 races so far this season then I was 2nd and 3rd then in another I was 4th 5th 6th 7th. Look for Walter Cichon you'll see me.

http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/sky_2010/HOF YB.pdf

http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/sky_2010/CH+Loft+YB-2[1].pdf


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I have heard of many things that some flyers do to strays, some good and some not to pleasant but I do not judge as everyone is different and has they're own strategy. I was involved in racing from a younger age and enjoyed my pigeons and had a big heart for all pigeons, stray and even ferals (called rats at that time and area). I remember I would be thrilled when a stray came to my loft as I was very curious to see where it was from. I was always told by other flyers (old timers) not to let the strays in. Now I have a trap in front of my cage (not just for that purpose) on front of my loft so if a stray comes I let him in there and grab him before he gets in my loft. Now the one thing I have to add is there a difference in a chance of your birds catching something from a stray or from one of your own birds that was lost for a week or so ? I read somewhere where they say to always leave 1 trap door open for a late arriving pigeon. Something to think about.
Kurps


Also I always contact the owner to find out what they want to do.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Everybody who races wants to win if not why would you be racing. But you don't have to heartless to win pigeon races either. I know plenty of guys who think you have to be and do unheard of things that they think is needed to win. But I'm proof you don't have to be heartless to win races. And if you need some proof of that just look on the IF websites and look at their awards from the 2010 YB's you'll see me on there a few times with Hall of Fame birds and for Champion Loft. I'll also be up there for the 2011 OB season when they make up the lists. Since I already have a bird that qualifies for the Hall of Fame and I've got pretty good results so far so I'll be up there for champion loft. I've won 2 races so far this season then I was 2nd and 3rd then in another I was 4th 5th 6th 7th. Look for Walter Cichon you'll see me.
> 
> http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/sky_2010/HOF YB.pdf
> 
> http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/sky_2010/CH+Loft+YB-2[1].pdf


How many birds do you ship to a race on average?


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

M Kurps said:


> Now the one thing I have to add is there a difference in a chance of your birds catching something from a stray or from one of your own birds that was lost for a week or so ? I read somewhere where they say to always leave 1 trap door open for a late arriving pigeon. Something to think about.
> Kurps
> 
> 
> Also I always contact the owner to find out what they want to do.


I had a bird out screwing with me for 5 or six days. Now I have to get an antibiotic and a pro-biotic. So there ya go.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

rpalmer said:


> I had a bird out screwing with me for 5 or six days. Now I have to get an antibiotic and a pro-biotic. So there ya go.


rpalmer, I stated in my post that I do not judge and everyone has they're own way and I do not let the stray in my loft just the wire sides and bottom cage and then take them out right away, I did twice and kicked myself and worried for about 2 weeks but no more. Being that said do you think that maybe the bird was sick and that is why he was out for 5 or more days. I repeat I am not judging you. I will always help a stray as long as I am able.
Kurps


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

rpalmer said:


> How many birds do you ship to a race on average?


 IDK why how many birds I ship should matter but in OB's we have a 35 bird limit but my old bird team is only 30 birds so the most I've shipped this year is 30 and the least is 10. I ship everything in good shape to the 2 150 mile races and to blow home races kinda as training tosses. I know who I'm gonna clock good and who I'm not but it's cheaper to ship them in a race as a training toss to get them ready for the next race then to drive them out there myself. In YB's we have a 20 limit in the begining of the season then a 25 bird limit twords the end of the season when the shipping goes down because the combine truck can't handle any more birds in Yb's. But I shipped around 20 birds all year last year. The money race I won last YB season I shipped 3 birds and wound up 1st and 5th.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Interesting thread, I understand Rpalmers concern for the protection and health of his birds and I also see Jay3's point of having compassion and assisting a injured or wayward bird back home. 

Myself, I like to believe in "What goes around comes around" 

So if some fanciers bird or feral tries to trap in my loft and I can catch it ..I won't allow that to happen. I have cages and gallon drinkers the bird is welcome to rest and recover while I locate its owner (unless its a true Feral then its headed downtown cause those birds can't find their way out of a paper sack) 

Likewise, I would hope that if one of my birds traps in another club members loft they will call me so I can pick it up..I'm not saying they will but all I can do ask. I would like to believe they are not so desperate to win a diploma that they would willfully hurt one of my birds under the guise of "loft security". 

Just the idea that the guy shaking your hand and smiling in your face at a club meeting will kill any of your birds he can catch makes me sick..so lets hope for everyone sake I can't prove it true. 

I prefer the idea of live and let live, help when we can and stay out of the way when we can't change a thing.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

M Kurps said:


> rpalmer, I stated in my post that I do not judge and everyone has they're own way and I do not let the stray in my loft just the wire sides and bottom cage and then take them out right away, I did twice and kicked myself and worried for about 2 weeks but no more. Being that said do you think that maybe the bird was sick and that is why he was out for 5 or more days. I repeat I am not judging you. I will always help a stray as long as I am able.
> Kurps


My birds, were to put it mildly, strong on the wing. It was his first loft fly. He was just having a great time flying. You are better than I. I do judge, even though one can not get to the moral high ground by doing so. If I were set up with what was needed to help a stray I would. But I am not and I can not afford it either. Where I live and it's limits coupled with my dog and cat just don't give me many options. So I take care of what I have and enjoy it all as much as I can.

In the past I have had to have veterinary work done and in one case saving a dog's life could have been done at a price. A very high price. So here is a man who's passion and love of animals lead to a career but would limit his skills to only those who could afford him. So I don't feel too bad about my choice to take care of mine first and not every other animal that would stumble my way. 



Pigeon0446 said:


> IDK why how many birds I ship should matter but in OB's we have a 35 bird limit but my old bird team is only 30 birds so the most I've shipped this year is 30 and the least is 10. I ship everything in good shape to the 2 150 mile races and to blow home races kinda as training tosses. I know who I'm gonna clock good and who I'm not but it's cheaper to ship them in a race as a training toss to get them ready for the next race then to drive them out there myself. In YB's we have a 20 limit in the begining of the season then a 25 bird limit twords the end of the season when the shipping goes down because the combine truck can't handle any more birds in Yb's. But I shipped around 20 birds all year last year. The money race I won last YB season I shipped 3 birds and wound up 1st and 5th.


I watched your video of your pigeons running. It looked like there were easily over 100 YBs. And with your skills that means you will have another 100 OBs added you last years 100??? . What do you do with all those surplus birds?


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

rpalmer said:


> My birds, were to put it mildly, strong on the wing. It was his first loft fly. He was just having a great time flying. You are better than I. I do judge, even though one can not get to the moral high ground by doing so. If I were set up with what was needed to help a stray I would. But I am not and I can not afford it either. Where I live and it's limits coupled with my dog and cat just don't give me many options. So I take care of what I have and enjoy it all as much as I can.
> 
> In the past I have had to have veterinary work done and in one case saving a dog's life could have been done at a price. A very high price. So here is a man who's passion and love of animals lead to a career but would limit his skills to only those who could afford him. So I don't feel too bad about my choice to take care of mine first and not every other animal that would stumble my way.
> 
> ...


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

M Kurps said:


> I am NOT better then you only different. In your situation you unable to help and thats how it is. I say to you happy flying and good luck in the races.
> Kurps


Thank you and all the best to you and yours.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

JAXRACINGLOFTS.....Well said.......Alamo


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

rpalmer said:


> I watched your video of your pigeons running. It looked like there were easily over 100 YBs. And with your skills that means you will have another 100 OBs added you last years 100??? . What do you do with all those surplus birds?


There was less then 50 YB's in that video. I think one crate had 15 or 16 and the other 2 had 17 each. But still more them the size of my OB team. I had a bad toss last year where I lost more then half of my flock. Idk what happend to them they had been to the spot I lost them from a few times. I was thinking of jumping them that day but I was like I'll give them one more toss from this spot and IDK what happend but I lost a lot of nice birds that day. I wish I woulda had some of them birds lost that day. This year I have over 100 YB's but that's because I'm handling birds for the IF Convention Race and My clubs Great South Bay Classic and LBR Auction race. I had to add another 16 by 8 section to the YB loft to handle all the extra birds. I rather have extra space then not enough. As for surplus birds I don't have any that I'd call surplus. If I breed or buy a bird it has a place to live for the rest of it's life no matter it be a champ or a chump. I've got 5 big coops so I've got plenty of space for them. The best get to breed the rest are kept seprate so I don't get any more of them. I know it's not how most would do it but that's how i do it. I keep them as more or less pets but I also have fun racing the ones that are worth racing.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Pigeon0446 said:


> There was less then 50 YB's in that video. I think one crate had 15 or 16 and the other 2 had 17 each. But still more them the size of my OB team. I had a bad toss last year where I lost more then half of my flock. Idk what happend to them they had been to the spot I lost them from a few times. I was thinking of jumping them that day but I was like I'll give them one more toss from this spot and IDK what happend but I lost a lot of nice birds that day. I wish I woulda had some of them birds lost that day. This year I have over 100 YB's but that's because I'm handling birds for the IF Convention Race and My clubs Great South Bay Classic and LBR Auction race. I had to add another 16 by 8 section to the YB loft to handle all the extra birds. I rather have extra space then not enough. As for surplus birds I don't have any that I'd call surplus. If I breed or buy a bird it has a place to live for the rest of it's life no matter it be a champ or a chump. I've got 5 big coops so I've got plenty of space for them. The best get to breed the rest are kept seprate so I don't get any more of them. I know it's not how most would do it but that's how i do it. I keep them as more or less pets but I also have fun racing the ones that are worth racing.


Big heart big lofts... good man. I sort of remembered after watching the video that that was a boat load of birds. Thanks for clearing that up. Take care.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

I take in strays every year from different countries, mostly Cuban but Mexico, England, and Italy as well. I always keep them separate but have never had a health issue among them at all. Some have been paper thin when I picked them up, and have recovered back into strong healthy birds to be admired. My thoughts on strays have changed over them many years of taking them in. No one knows exactly what happens to our birds once they released.That, combined with the fact that we don't even know why they are able to home, leaves me less than willing to blame the birds as being bad all the time. Personally, I think we need to clean up our own mess, we all race together, and the responsibility should only be ours.


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

I take in strays every year from different countries, mostly Cuban but Mexico, England, and Italy as well. I always keep them separate but have never had a health issue among them at all. Some have been paper thin when I picked them up, and have recovered back into strong healthy birds to be admired. My thoughts on strays have changed over them many years of taking them in. No one knows exactly what happens to our birds once they released.That, combined with the fact that we don't even know why they are able to home, leaves me less than willing to blame the birds as being bad all the time. Personally, I think we need to clean up our own mess, we all race together, and the responsibility should only be ours.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

*Primary instinct*

We do what we can.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> Since racing season has started in most states here in the USA,it is the time when STRAY pigeons come in contact with your pigeons....They may land on your loft,and try to enter it.....Do yourself and your birds a BIG favor,and do NOT let any STRAYS get into your loft.....Feed and water them OUTSIDE your loft,if you cannot catch it....If you catch the bird,put it in a cage away from your birds and feed it for a couple of days..If it is healthy looking,and wants to get out,let it go home.....I had a lost BBH at my loft last week....I caught it,and put it into my extra cage I have for new matings,or stray birds etc...The band letters were NGC,which is a club out of Baltimore MD......I fed the bird for two days...She looked healthy,and wanted to go home,so I opened the door,and she went straight East making no turns.....So I did the bird and her owner a favor by caring for it,and did myself a BIG FAVOR by not letting her get into my loft....
> Everyone`s happy !!! So a word to the wise to you all....Take care of a stray bird,but do not let it into your loft......Alamo


 What are you going to do when your birds get placed into crates with other pigeons, some of which will carry all kinds of internal and external parasites and may in fact be sick ?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Warren,my stock pigeons are not going into any crates with any other birds...And my combine has a rule that everyone`s young birds are in their own crate....With the exception of the money races....OB`s can be mixed up,because the immunity is far better for them,then the YB`s....So I don`t need to innoculate my birds,or even medicate my birds unless I NEED to.....ACV....and a FEW other things keep them healthy.....I don`t want to give all my methods out to the world....Alamo


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