# yellow stuff?



## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Inside and on the roof of his mouth ,its yellow! I am very conerned about this because when his babies hatch i dont want him passing watever it is to them. He also has a bump underneath his beak. And the skin that connects one beak with another, looks kinds of "torn up" Could this just be from fighting, or do you think that this might also be air sac mights?
And if so, does anybody have anything for it that they can send me a little bit of? Im thinking Scatt???


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That yellow stuff probably looks like wet cheddar cheese (or Velveeta), right? That's usually caused by a flagellating protozoa called "Trichomonas gallinae" and the clinical disease is called "Trichomoniasis". Most folks just call it "canker" and it can kill or severely damage the bird. You need some medications for that pretty quickly. Where (basically) are you?

Pidgey


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

I live in New Hampshire. Its funny because it doesnt seem like the bird is in much distress. but yes, a little like velveeta. not a lot but enough to look odd.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> Inside and on the roof of his mouth ,its yellow! I am very conerned about this because when his babies hatch i dont want him passing watever it is to them. He also has a bump underneath his beak. And the skin that connects one beak with another, looks kinds of "torn up" Could this just be from fighting, or do you think that this might also be air sac mights?
> And if so, does anybody have anything for it that they can send me a little bit of? Im thinking Scatt???



Hi Pixy,

Is this a yellow covering on the roof of the mouth or are we talking buttons
of sorts, cheesy growths, in specific spots. Where do you live that medication
could be sent to?

It sounds more like Canker/Trichomoniasis but it sure would be good to have
a picture. If it were something like Thrush/Yeast we would only exacerbate
the problem by giving the bird Metronidazole/Flagyl.

It's also possible that these conditions could appear simultaneously. That's why if you have the ability to post a picure it would be helpful.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

You could get it through New England Pigeon Supply, they are right in your
area. Is $$ an issue??

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if you've got a store up there that sells aquarium supplies and fish, you might luck onto one that carries a product called "FishZole" that is essentially Metronidazole. Today is a bad day to go finding stuff like that, especially after hours. You're probably not going to find any until Monday. They also ever-so-occasionally carry the stuff at feed stores, you'll just have to start calling tomorrow. Other possibilities would be if you knew any folks in your area that have lofts and keep supplies for their birds. Yet another one would be if you or your parents knew a pharmacist real well and could beg just one lousy 250 milligram Flagyl pill that you can cut up and administer for the next few days.

Pidgey


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Its not really "buttony" but more like a yellowy "film"?And the thing underneath his beak, doesnt have any different color, it looks more like a small growth. I would try to post a pictures, maybe i can go out right now when hes sleeping, but do the females or the males sit on the eggs at night?


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> You could get it through New England Pigeon Supply, they are right in your
> area. Is $$ an issue??
> 
> fp


I have never bought vaccine before because they cost soo much.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There isn't a vaccine for canker and if it's pox, you'd really wish you had. Can you post pictures of this bird and possibly of the open mouth? (you might need an extra pair of hands for that)

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> I have never bought vaccine before because they cost soo much.


Here's a link to the Pigeon Supply Houses. I think you'll find the prices at New England to be very reasonable and if you call, you could have it sent expedited mail.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

New England pigeon supply is located in Connecticut and there's also 
a bird supply house in New York and in New Hampshire.

Check out NEPS @ their website and look at their Canker Meds. If you have
a problem w/their prices let us know. It would be best for a picture as well,
so if you can, please post. 

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If you burrito the bird, you should be able to hold the beak open and shoot w/the other hand.....or so I'm hoping if you don't have someone there to help.

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

I just went outside and took some pictures. ugh. it was dark and i dont have a high enough resolution so they were all blury. But while i was down there i noticed that he has some yellow on his cere too. .
I have bought from NEPS before and tony is a nice guy to deal with. 
I have never dealt really with any type of disease before except for with some paratyphoid, and some spiffying up took care of that.
I have just checked out NEPS and it seems as if they dont have any individual treatments instock at this time.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Anything like this:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1148853791041018823fOgXbk

?

Pidgey


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Whoa! nothing like that! its just a yellow film on part of his cere and the roof of his mouth


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the yellow on the cere comment just begged a quick look-see. Anyhow, if you've got canker starting to discolor and swell places on the bird, then you're in more trouble than you could be. No other fanciers that you know close by who might have some canker meds?

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pixy said:


> Its not really "buttony" but more like a yellowy "film"?And the thing underneath his beak, doesnt have any different color, it looks more like a small growth. I would try to post a pictures, maybe i can go out right now when hes sleeping, but *do the females or the males sit on the eggs at night*?


Is your bird able to eat OK Pixy? What do the droppings look like? 

Generally the female sits on the eggs at night.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> Whoa! nothing like that! its just a yellow film on part of his cere and the roof of his mouth



Pixy, this could be just a case of semantics, but are you saying there's a film as in a growth on top of the tissue in the mouth or are you saying that it appears 
to be like a film? Is it just the roof of the mouth that now has a yellowish
caste or is there some film as in a growth that is present?

Also, has there been a change in diet or have any of your other birds presented
w/these symptoms? If this is an only bird, fine, but if you have other birds you should separate this bird from the rest. 

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Pixy, this could be just a case of semantics, but are you saying there's a film as in a growth on top of the tissue in the mouth or are you saying that it appears
> to be like a film? Is it just the roof of the mouth that now has a yellowish
> caste or is there some film as in a growth that is present?
> 
> ...


There is a growth beneath his beak in the skin. In his beak it is a film. It doesnt seem to the a pigmant color of the skin, but a mild film that is also on a part of his cere. I also had another bird that had a yellowish substance in its nostril, just a little bit. There has not been any change in the diet either. Unfortunatley it would be hard to seperate him because he and his hen have just laid eggs.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Is your bird able to eat OK Pixy? What do the droppings look like?
> 
> Generally the female sits on the eggs at night.
> 
> Cindy


From what i can tell he can eat fine. I am not sure what his droppings look like


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

I have a cousin actually that lives in my town. However; She is the only person i know of in my state that has pigeons. I have not thought of her, but she does have quite a bit of pigeons and mayeb she has something. i might be able to contact her tomorrow.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

A lot of times, pigeon fanciers keep products around like "4-in-1" drugs. Pretty much all of that stuff has an anti-canker in it. If you're stuck with that, then that's what you should do. Otherwise, it'd be better not to. Let us know what you find out and if necessary, we'll try to help you out with dosing.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> There is a growth beneath his beak in the skin. *In his beak it is a film. It doesnt seem to the a pigmant color of the skin, but a mild film that is also on a part of his cere. I also had another bird that had a yellowish substance in its nostril, just a little bit. *There has not been any change in the diet either. Unfortunatley it would be hard to seperate him because he and his hen have just laid eggs.


Are these the only two birds that you have? How big is the growth beneath
the beak and do you know approximately how long it's been there? If you part
the feathers can you see the growth? 

This description doesn't sound real typical for the canker I've seen and I get
mostly canker birds. Maybe someone else has seen it like this, I just haven't.
It sounds more like a fungal problem. That would be treated w/Nystatin.
But I hate to have you treating w/out a real fix on the problem which is why
it would help to have some pics. Do you have a digital camera by chance?

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

No, i have a dozen of them. I have checke this morning, and maybe i was seeing things? It turns out that he DOESNT have yellow stuff on his CERE, it is another bird that has it on her cere and nostril. The bird with the stuff in his mouth and the growth under his beak, you dont have to part the feathers at all. Its right where there isnt any feathers. i dont know how to explain how big it is. Alright, how bout comparing it to a huge zit or pimple, minus the redness. The skin looks normal except for this big zit like growth. I have a digital camera but all of the pictures look too blury.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

here is the nun with the yellow substance on her cere
I have just found this out yesterday

And here is the helmet. This is an older picture of him, but i have criced where the growth is and its general size


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

A huge zit or pimple?? Take that bird, and give it a hands on physical exam looking and feeling for any other growths of that kind. Look under the wings and along the back and let your fingers do some of the looking. Try to Burrito
the bird and step back and take a pic, you may be too close.

The other bird that that you are showing that has yellow on the cere, the feathers imediately above the cere look wet/damp/moist, they are darker in 
color there, is this so w/closer examination?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Also, in your aviary, have you noticed any particulary yellow poops mixed in w/the normal ones?

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

i havent noticed any yellow poops. But i checked on the nun and it seems that the part of her cere that was yellow is now gone and the white has flaked off too. so now she has a bald spont on her cere


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy, the cere/wattle sometimes will change color without being illness related and I've seen them slough off the top of the cere/wattle as well. If there are damp/moist feathers slightly above I would be concerned, if there were
irregularities inside the mouth, in general, or with her demeanor there would
be cause for concern.

Regarding your bird w/the pimple/zit....did you check to see if there were any
other of these growths on the bird?

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Pixy, the cere/wattle sometimes will change color without being illness related and I've seen them slough off the top of the cere/wattle as well. If there are damp/moist feathers slightly above I would be concerned, if there were
> irregularities inside the mouth, in general, or with her demeanor there would
> be cause for concern.
> 
> ...


I did go and look and could find no signs of any other growths, although the "film" did seem to get a little bit thicker. Just a little bit. But he does not have any damp feathers


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy, if someone told me that their bird had a thick film like growth covering
the roof of the mouth, I'd tend to think more of thrush/yeast infection. 

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Alright, how should i go about treating this, and, if when the babies hatch, will this pass from him to them when he feeds them?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, what you really oughta' do is let the vet take a swab and examine it microscopically. Trichomonads would show up if present and so would budding yeasts. Anyhow, it requires one family of medications if it's the canker (probably the more likely) and another if it's the other. Can you get to a vet?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What about the cousin? Did you call her? Does she keep any medications?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> Alright, how should i go about treating this, and, if when the babies hatch, will this pass from him to them when he feeds them?


Either way, Trichomoniasis (Canker) or Candida (Thrush) will be passed along
to babies in terms of organisms present when giving crop milk to the babies.
They are anyway as most of the time both are present in pigeons, just not
at a disease state, that is out of balance. 

Again, if you're looking at more of a film or sheet on the roof of the mouth,
this would more likely be Thrush symptom wise. Once the system starts to 
go out of balance though, your populations of other "Host Equilibrium" organisms could also rise so Trichomoniasis (Canker) could subsequently become an issue.

But for now you are being presented w/symptoms of a film or covering on the
roof of the mouth, and something that appeared to be on the cere and now has sloughed off. This I would treat w/Nystatin and this you could again call
up the pij supply houses in the links I gave you and see if they won't do expedited mailing. Jedd's carries Nystatin and Globals carries I think it's 'Glostatin' which is Global's in house version of Nystatin. I'd go w/Jedd's
and they are very quick w/their deliveries.

In the meantime you can give Apple Cider Vineger in their water to the tune
of 3 TBLS per gallon as their only drinking water. I'd also isolate this bird and mate from the rest of the birds in the meantime. Also, examine the interiors
of the mate's mouth and make sure that all is normal there.

fp

You might ask your cousin to look at the bird or if they have Nystatin on hand.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Hello, its been a while! But, i dont think that my cousin would have that. She has a lot of birds, she loves them, but i think shes like me, she has the birds but doesnt have all of the vaccines or medications. I looked up Nystatin on jedds and it was 31$! Thats a lot of money for me right now. Also global pigeon didnt have any. Unfortunatley, NE pigeon supplies didnt have any either! Can you tell me more about the vinegar? Is this going to help get rid of the film?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pixy said:


> Hello, its been a while! But, i dont think that my cousin would have that. She has a lot of birds, she loves them, but i think shes like me, she has the birds but doesnt have all of the vaccines or medications. I looked up Nystatin on jedds and it was 31$! Thats a lot of money for me right now. Also global pigeon didnt have any. Unfortunatley, NE pigeon supplies didnt have any either! Can you tell me more about the vinegar? Is this going to help get rid of the film?



Pixy, why don't you try this and see if there's any significant change. Add
3 TBLS of raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of water and place it w/the 
bird as the only source of water. After one or two days let us know how
it looks. Braggs puts out raw apple cider vineger (ACV) and it can be purchased at a health food store. 

We don't know specifically what the film is. It doesn't sound at this point
like canker but it's very difficult sometimes to know for certain over the internet what's going on w/a bird.

BTW, what is their housing like? I mean is it dry, w/sunshine and fresh air
without being drafty? Also, what is the floor like?

fp


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

My coop looks like this. However, right now it has almost all plastic around it but on one side about a 2sq foot hole has been torn from an animal. I think they have ventilation, but the floor is still pretty gross. It is mesh with just plain ground underneath it...if only i had known before hand, i would have made a plywood floor. Now the floor is hard to clean and damp.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

The coop does look different now,well the inside, with more nest boxes.. and more birds!. I think that was around a year ago.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I guess it would have to be damp given that it's a dirt floor and New Hampshire
this time of year. Pixy, check your PM, I'll see if I can't set you up w/a few
things. In the meantime please do give the birds the ACV that was mentioned 
in their water. Sometimes they may drink less because of the ACV, although
I've really not had a problem w/it per se. 

fp


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