# Fluffed Up?



## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

I just heard this term on TV and it concerned me. My adopted pigeon has been doing this for several months, maybe since we found her? Is this fluffing up normal, abnormal or is there something more I need to look for? She has stop cooing, she used to talk with us through out the day, now I can't get her to. Is that normal? I don't know what to this of her poop, it looks ok to me, from internet search, but maybe I need to post a pic? I have an array of bird foods that I mix and give her. I haven't done any meds, vitamins, or anything other than bird food and water. I hope she is fine and hasn't been sick!


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

she has dropped a lot of feathers which I assume is molting, I did check her over and she doesn't have any balding.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

A poop picture would be helpful.
She needs a pigeon seed mix with assorted peas for protein, pigeon grit and a calcium.vitamin d3 supplement.
Many pigeons enjoy leafy greens, broccoli tops and minced raw carrots. Mine do.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

If is fluffed up is because she doesn't get enough food into her body and as result she lacks energy and warmt. That can have various cases. If the probnlem lasted so long, it may not be a bacterial issue, coccidiosis or canker, as these diseases advance and kill the birds in a period ranging from few days to few weeks. Beside medication, such a bird needs to be kept in warmer than environment place, like in a box with an electric pad on bottom.

As you say the droppings look normal, it makes me think of candida. But ofcourse this depends of what you understand by normal droppings. Anyway, as candida is a very frequent problerm and many birds have it without their owners knowing this, treating for crop candida would be a good idea. Buy some liquid nystatin or crush a half of a nystatin tablet and mix it with water with a higher content of acv, but not as high as its discomforting taste to cause stress to bird (making it as sour as a lemon juice drink). Give this two or three times a day for few days.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

i will post pics in a few minutes


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*poop and fluff pics*


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ive seen worse but that said, if her behavior has changed then that is a clue she is not feeling well. Poops dont look to bad but she is not mint. So I would say, vits, minerals, she needs grits, very important and as someone said, proper pigeon mix with peas and corn. You are in the US of A and Im sure if you google any feed stores near you and pet stores you will find all you need to take good care of this bird. I suggest you start doing that research and get on it  Oh and go online as well and google any pigeon suppy, like Foys or Seigals or Global and get a good antibiotic and keep it on hand AND for the record if she was a found bird, I would give her a simple course of antibiotics as per bottle instructions because they usually have something which is usually an overgrowth of e coli. I do that as a quarantine for any bird I get.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What are you feeding her? Are the droppings the actual color they appear in the picture?
If she has been doing this for several months, then she has been sick for a long time. That's not good.It's more than feed and vitamins that she needs. A good antibiotic would be Enrofloxyn, but can't always get that.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If the poop really is that neon green color, the bird may have salmonella. That is one of the symptoms as I know all to well.

You can order this product. After it arrives, I would be happy to help you with a dose, based upon the birds weight.

http://uspigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/baytril-20-pigeons-birds-products-8877.html


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay...enrofloxcin is readily available, in liquid, at Mercasystems Pigeon supply. Their US warehouse is in California.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Those are classic poops of a bird with candida and an incipient salmonella. For how long did you notice these droppings? From my experiences, in less then few (2-4) days the bird will start going downhill fast or you may even find her death. It is necessary to treat for both diseases. Have noticed white spots in mouth? I think the best would be to start with the candida, as the antibiotic used for salmonella will increase candida. 

As treatment for salmonella, I would use 1-3 days course of injectable Lincospectin, while keeping the treatment for candida at high cote (dosage). If white formations appear in mouth or respiratory problems (like a "dried" cough or unusual many sneezes), you have to introduce Fluconazole for the treatment of candida.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*foods, not great pics, and only one has ingredients, one has dried fruits*

this is 4 different foods we feed her...one if from feed store with no ingredient list, the others have some dried fruit in it, and hopefully you can see what is in them...I will order antibiotic now, Enrofloxyn. Would that treat samonella and Candida?


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*Please follow link and tell what one to order/antibiotic Enro*

http://uspigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=enrofloxcin


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

CBL said:


> Ive seen worse but that said, if her behavior has changed then that is a clue she is not feeling well. Poops dont look to bad but she is not mint. So I would say, vits, minerals, she needs grits, very important and as someone said, proper pigeon mix with peas and corn. You are in the US of A and Im sure if you google any feed stores near you and pet stores you will find all you need to take good care of this bird. I suggest you start doing that research and get on it  Oh and go online as well and google any pigeon suppy, like Foys or Seigals or Global and get a good antibiotic and keep it on hand AND for the record if she was a found bird, I would give her a simple course of antibiotics as per bottle instructions because they usually have something which is usually an overgrowth of e coli. I do that as a quarantine for any bird I get.


I have a vitamin on order and grit...I kept looking for some online and then get overwhelmed with the choices, but ordered some now. Husband didn't think she needed it, but she isn't being herself. He says it's too cold in our house, 73 degrees, I don't think so. She does not have anywhere to get in sun unfortunately. I can't catch her during the day to go outside. I have tried various veggies/fruit chopped up, but she doesn't seem to eat them, maybe a little bit of apple. I will try broccoli.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Looks like ur only option is this one...looks like the others are out of stock.
The feed looks good, I just hate the very last line of all the dyes and crap in it. I dont use any colored seed, if you can find some that is more plain that would be better.


Enrofloxarom 5% 100ml, (Injec. Enrofloxacine), (Broad spectrum treatment). Pigeons & Birds
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Enrofloxarom 5%, (Injec. Enrofloxacine), (Broad spectrum treatment). Pigeons & Birds

Enroflox is very similar to Baytril (Bayer), but cheaper.

INDICATIONS:
- Coccidiosis
- Salmonellosis
- Infections caused by bacterias
- Respiratory infections.
- Diarrhoeas.
- Gastro-intestinal tract infections
- Ornithosis

COMPOSITION
- Enrofloxacin 5%

DOSAGE
- In water: 1 ml. per 1 litre of drinking water (5-7 days)
- For injection: 0,02 ml per pigeon
- Besure and use a probiotic after using the Baytril to replace the good bacteria in the gut flora

PACKAGING:
- 100 ml bottle
Additional Information

Manufacturer	Gufarma
Indications	Diarrhoeas, Gastro Intestinal Infect., Respiratory Tract, Salmonellosis
Format	Liquid
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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

site says 4-5 days to deliver, I ordered 
http://uspigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/baytril-20-pigeons-birds-products-8877.htmlBaytril 10% 50ml drops (Magistral Formula), broad spectrum Magistral formula for pigeons, birds and cage-birds

INDICATIONS:
• Coccidiosis
• Salmonellosis
• Infections caused by bacterias
• Respiratory infections.
• Diarrhoeas.
• Gastro-intestinal tract infections
• Ornithosis

COMPOSITION
- Enrofloxacine 10%

DOSAGE
- 40 drops (= 2 ml) per liter of drinking water during 5-7 days
or
- 3-4 drops per pigeon directly to peak (1 drops in birds)


PACK SIZE: 
- 50 ml


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*delay in msgs*

Thanks everyone, truly!! There is a delay in messages posting, so some are overlapping. Sorry for the confusion. I hope I will get the meds quickly. So, I have a vitamin/mineral/trace ele/amino acids, grit and medicine on order. Is there anything I can do in the meantime? Would apple cider vinegar to water help anything?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

http://uspigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/baytril-20-pigeons-birds-products-8877.html
Baytril 10% 50ml drops Magistral Formula, (Respiratory and intestinal diseases). Pigeons and birds
You can this for $16
I would get the 10%
It's a good price.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*yeast or thrush*

Now, is there something I should give her to prevent a yeast infection or thrush? 

Also, should I treat for Candida?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have sent you the link for Medistatin.
http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/AB10232.html


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I have treated my flock many times and never ever had a yeast or candida problem. I say why give more meds than u have to. Trying to give to prevent as opposed to treating, not a big fan of. Has anyone ever had a yeast issue when giving meds to their birds, would love to hear the stories.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

CBL said:


> I have treated my flock many times and never ever had a yeast or candida problem. I say why give more meds than u have to. Trying to give to prevent as opposed to treating, not a big fan of. Has anyone ever had a yeast issue when giving meds to their birds, would love to hear the stories.


I am hesitant about spending more money, having just spent around $100 for the things mentioned here for her just in the last day!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, in the past many have come on with yeast infections from antibiotics. Baytril is known for it. It's just like us when we take antibiotics, and many of us get it too.
It is of course up to you. I always use either Medistatin or Nystatin when using antibiotics, especially Baytril. And my vet suggested it also. I would rather do that, then wait till they get it and it takes longer to treat. Can cause crop problems. But I can understand about spending the money. Like I said.........it is up to you.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

CBL said:


> Enrofloxarom 5% 100ml, (Injec. Enrofloxacine), (Broad spectrum treatment).


Funy, Enrofloxarom is a Romanian product. Just a confirmation that Romvac, that drug factory I was speaking on other threads (especially in regard of the advices of Tudoran, a specialist employed there), is recognized abroad. Anyway, my vet thinks Enrofloxacine is not as effective as Lincospectin.




Navarretes said:


> Thanks everyone, truly!! There is a delay in messages posting, so some are overlapping. Sorry for the confusion. I hope I will get the meds quickly. So, I have a vitamin/mineral/trace ele/amino acids, grit and medicine on order. Is there anything I can do in the meantime? Would apple cider vinegar to water help anything?


Is essential to give probiotics, if not during the treatment, at least from the first day after the finidshing of the treatment. Probiotics should be given all the time, every few days, no matter if the bird is sick or healthy. It makes the birds pass easily over the diseases and aquirre immunity over time. Probiotics are a real "wonder working" thing.

And always when giving antibiotics, especially strong ones like Enro or Linco, give Nystatin and higher dose of acv. If this can't stop candida, give Fluconazole.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ya the funny thing is I have used Baytril like a kabillion times and not once have I got yeast in any of the birds. I have used, the cyline family, the flocaxine family, and never had an issue, I guess my probiotics keep things in check. 

AndreiS, depeneding on what the bug is, is whether lico or baytril will do better. Each bug will be susepetible to a drug, some R, some S, some half and half. So the reason for the culture is to see WHAT is the BEST killer of that bug, hence the prescription for THAT particular bug. If your saying your vet prefers linco to baytril as a GENERAL overall antibiotic then I cannot argue what a vet knows. 

I will argue tho bout probiotics because of the effect they have had on my birds. Tests came back negative for any yeasts in my birds 

By the way, about once a week now or two, I give my birds something called CANDI-STATIN on their seeds from AVIO med. It is to prevent Canadidiasis in caged birds. It is a powder that you put in water and then soak the seeds for 20 min. It says to give once a week, but when busy I forget. It says it is a preventative if given once a week and a treatment if given for 7 days. I think I got it at Foys. Ingredients are Caprylic acid, acv, grapefruit seed extract, vit A and nicotinamide and it stinks but works well I guess. Bought it awhile ago, and kept forgetting to use it, and now as a preventative I use it when I remember cuz I dont want to waste the money by not using it up lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL said:


> Ya the funny thing is I have used Baytril like a kabillion times and not once have I got yeast in any of the birds. I have used, the cyline family, the flocaxine family, and never had an issue, I guess my probiotics keep things in check.
> 
> AndreiS, depeneding on what the bug is, is whether lico or baytril will do better. Each bug will be susepetible to a drug, some R, some S, some half and half. So the reason for the culture is to see WHAT is the BEST killer of that bug, hence the prescription for THAT particular bug. If your saying your vet prefers linco to baytril as a GENERAL overall antibiotic then I cannot argue what a vet knows.
> 
> ...





That sounds interesting. Never heard of it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

CBL said:


> Ya the funny thing is I have used Baytril like a kabillion times and not once have I got yeast in any of the birds. I have used, the cyline family, the flocaxine family, and never had an issue, I guess my probiotics keep things in check.


Yeast appears when the good bacteria are killed so you may be right, but how can you be so sure you don't have candida? Which do you consider to be the symptoms of candida? White spots in mouth appear only in severe infestation and even if the crop is not blocked, it may (as result of crop candida) have a reduced capacity of communication with gissard, mainfested through small droppings, or droppings with a lot of urates and small feces and perhaps in other ways. 



> If your saying your vet prefers linco to baytril as a GENERAL overall antibiotic then I cannot argue what a vet knows.


He is the only vet that I know and who verbally admits his limits when not knowing something and for this reason I have a high trust in his advices but almost all the other vets, if don't know something in their field were trying to manipulate me into thinking they control the situation or they were convinced they know what was about but were wrong. Nevertheless, I noticed some mistakes at him so I don't absolutize his recommendations.

From my little experience with Baytril, it has no the efficiency of Linco. Baytril manifests as the bacteria has gained some resistance. At Linco, there is not any resistance. Failure may be meet in very small cases, in advanced sepsis. Otherwise, the success is also 100%.




> By the way, about once a week now or two, I give my birds something called CANDI-STATIN on their seeds from AVIO med. It is to prevent Canadidiasis in caged birds. It is a powder that you put in water and then soak the seeds for 20 min.


I hope I will find some (human) nystatin powder. Here only tablets are available. I crucial to give the nystatin as a solution, as just giving thr piece of tablet, the effect will be diminshed. The step back, the yeast must be hit with a strong massive dose of medicine and giving the piece of unbcrushed tablet means the drug effect will be diluted. I too started to think to a permanent treatment against candida, at least at the birds displaying small droppings.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*Fluffed/Update*

I got the meds yesterday. I am dosing her with 10 drops of the Baytril 10% in her drinking cup. Now, would it be better to give directly into her mouth at a lower dose? I read this in the comments below, but wasn't sure if it meant to give her 3 drops directly in mouth/beak. Would catching her and giving her the meds create too much stress for her? She tolerates handling and gets comfy if it's quiet and calm. Of course I do have a 5 year old toddler, so I can't say it would be quiet, but I can try. Can someone send me a link for the probiotic I should get? I have her vitamin and antibiotic in her water currently. We are talking about putting her outside in a netted aviary. Possibly finding a new home as I am getting a little overwhelmed with this and worried about the health of my family. She is currently flying loose in the house, but stays in a couple little areas, I clean regularly. My husband has had a cough and wheezing for a few weeks and I'm worried it could be from the bird. My 5 year old daughter had something the doctor didn't know what it was, causing her to get headaches and vomit/sore all over, it would happen every few days to a week with a break in between of a few days to a week (lasting 4 months), after antibiotics she was fine.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*poop*

I noticed a couple new poops today that were all white crystal like too


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Navarretes said:


> I noticed a couple new poops today that were all white crystal like too


What you mean by crystal? Crystal is transparent, not white.


If the poops are white, is because the crop is blocked by candida. 

*Stop giving antibiotics* (as they increase candida), also *stop giving any food*, maybe just give some water. And start giving nystatin, acv (high dose) and probiotics. Do this until she start passing feces (the dark part of poop) and from then, give only med and non-sweet food mixed with some acv, as to become sour, but not to a degree that would be stressful for bird. You have to give three times a day a half of nystatin tablet, crushed and mixed with 5 ml of water and in this water also put some acv drops, until it bercome pretty sour (taste it yourself) but, again, not stressfully sour. Start doing this now and keep doing few days after she start passing feces.

Probiotic: from vet drugstore, if not possible, from human drugstore. Is important to contains as much bacteria as possible, like 8 billion / sacket. Sackets are more convenable to use and perhaps cheaper than capsules.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

When Phoebe was sick and would fluff up,we put an oil filled space heater outside by one side of her cage and kept it at 85 to 90 degrees. She then could go to the warmer or cooler side of her cage in the house and she seemed to really like that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Navarretes said:


> I noticed a couple new poops today that were all white crystal like too


How do most of the droppings look?


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*droppings*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

how much do you feed him? Looks like he isn't eating enough.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> What you mean by crystal? Crystal is transparent, not white.
> 
> 
> If the poops are white, is because the crop is blocked by candida.
> ...



It is bad advice to stop the antibiotics. You do not know that this bird has yeast. And he still needs the antibiotics.
Also you can't get Nystatin without a vet, Medistatin can be ordered online.

Also, diagnosing candida, when you can't possibly know that makes no sense.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*food*

this poop has only been today, but strangely enough, I remembered I wasn't giving her the rice, barley and oats over the last couple weeks, I gave some today and she ate the rice all gone, some barley and oats and some sunflower seed crushed. I don't know why I forgot to give those, but I will put them with the rest of her food so I remember. I'm really having a hard time finding other things that she will eat and she likes to scatter her food everywhere, so hard for me to know if she is eating the apple, broccoli, carrot. My husband likes to keep piling on the seed so she has a lot of seed in her cage to eat.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*food2*

please all, tell me what you feed yours on a daily basis, and supplements too. Thank you everyone for your help. Also, I need to order a probiotic, anything particular?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What is it that you are giving the bird?


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*food*

she gets rice, barley, oats, and various bird seed mixes as posted earlier in this thread. I've tried diced carrots, broccoli, apple, lettuce, but she doesn't seem to eat them. Oh, she also likes crushed sunflower seed/peanuts. She won't eat the peas or corn in the mixes, too big/too hard?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Navarretes said:


>


Are these droppings recent? It seems that the feces are smaller, compared with urates, than in the first batch of photos who posted few days back. That shows that *the blockage of crop has advanced since then*, most likely caused by candida. If feces stop showing at all, it means no food or solid medication pass any more from crop into body. Antibiotics only agravate the candida so is necessary to stop giving them until the crop becomes functional again.

Have you noticed other symptoms, like a sort of cough? Or some white formations in mouth?

Please follow my advices from previous and from this post. I have met and solved tens of similar cases. 

The candida must be treated even after the crop become functional, until the droppings have no more diminished feces. The feces must represent like 90% from the volume and weight of the poop, if smaller in relation with the urates, it means there is a crop problem, usually caused by candida. Do the same to all pigeons that present similar symptom or the symptom of poops with normal proportion of feces but small in size over all, as that is another sign of candida - infested crop.

If you fall to do these, candida will advance to a level that won't be able to be stopped and the bird will die of starvation and dehydration.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They like dried split peas and lentils. And if a pigeon doesn't like the large corn in mixes, they usually like the course cracked corn.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> Are these droppings recent? It seems that the feces are smaller, compared with urates, than in the first batch of photos who posted few days back. That shows that *the blockage of crop has advanced since then*, most likely caused by candida. If feces stop showing at all, it means no food or solid medication pass any more from crop into body. Antibiotics only agravate the candida so is necessary to stop giving them until the crop becomes functional again.
> 
> Have you noticed other symptoms, like a sort of cough? Or some white formations in mouth?
> 
> ...



Andrei, please stop diagnosing things. You do not know that the bird has candida, or a crop blockage. You are not there. It looks as though the bird is not eating enough. All we can do is to try and figure out what is going on, as we are not there. But when you come in and say that it is definitely such and such, and to stop antibiotics, then you are giving bad advice which can be dangerous and detrimental for the bird. If you are hand feeding a bird, and know exactly how much is going in, then you can see what comes out and have a pretty good idea if there is a blockage or not. If he is eating on his own, and being picky for whatever reason.................doesn't like the food, or isn't feeling well, even antibiotics can make him feel sick and not want to eat. You can not know this. For some reason, you seem to think most things are somehow connected to candida or salmonella.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*crop*

I will catch her tonight and check in her mouth for anything unusual. How do I check the crop??


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

you can not check if the crop is blocked. As I have said, you would have to hand feed, like the peas, so that you know the bird is getting say 50 peas in one sitting, then see how she poops. Does she have a good amount of good droppings or not. To do this, you would need to take away her feed, and just hand feed for the day. If you feel the crop, you may feel seeds in there, but that only means that she has eaten some. Not that it is blocked. 
So.............take away her feed, and hand feed twice tomorrow, at 50 peas or so each time. Then wait and see how the droppings look. She is on medication, which makes her feel like not eating, so she isn't. When I have sick birds on medication, I keep them in a cage and hand feed. This way I can medicate, feed, and monitor what is happening with the bird. You said you would catch her? Where is she? She should be in a cage, otherwise, it's impossible to monitor how well she is going or anything else.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When birds are sick, they don't feel like eating, just like you and me. So you need to pull her feed and hand feed her yourself. The defrosted peas are great for this, as they are easy to feed and to digest. Then you also know how much you have fed and how much she should be going. If you don't hand feed, she will not eat enough, and she will get weaker and sicker. Hand feed the bird.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Navarretes said:


> How do I check the crop??


Simply, if the crop doesn't empty over night, or empties only partially, it means is blocked, partially or completely.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> Simply, if the crop doesn't empty over night, or empties only partially, it means is blocked, partially or completely.



Unless you take away the food, then you don't know if she has just eaten.
Also, most crop blockages are from canker, and you are telling her to stop the canker med.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Also, most crop blockages are from canker,


From my experience, the vast majority of blockages are caused by candida, appeared usually after antibiotic treatment or other favorising conditions. In fact, candida s the most frequent problem at my flock and in last days I used to give around 10 treatments / day for candida, to some pigeons 2-4 times / day to other only one time / day.

In past, when I met some cases of blocked crop of unknown cause, I remembere Dr. Colins assertion (the one expressed by you) and treated for canker, to no improvement. Candida was the cause in most cases and cured with fluconazole and vinegar




> and you are telling her to stop the canker med.


I didn't say this. Metronidazole is not favorising the growth of candida, but antibioptics yes. I told to stop giving antibiotics, not metronidazole.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

AndreiS said:


> ..........
> I didn't say this. Metronidazole is not favorising the growth of candida, but antibioptics yes. I told to stop giving antibiotics, not metronidazole.


Metronidazole *is* an antibiotic. 

I have asked you more than once to stop this long-distance 'diagnosis' (or, guesswork).

I believe you have a bird who is sick and you seem to be having enough problems with a bird actually in your own care, so I really don't think you are in a great position to be telling other people what is wrong with their pigeons.

Last warning before you go on notice.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*mouth*

we did check her mouth tonight, just a very light pink, no white patches anywhere. I'm thinking she is anemic, which could be diet related, and I'm trying to remedy that. I will try frozen peas again, she didn't eat them before. The peas in the seed mixture are too big and she tosses them out, I am crushing sunflower seed and peanuts for her. Anything else I can do to get protein in her? The multivitamin I have been putting 1/8 tsp in her drinking cup. This vitamin was sent to me as a *substitute*, they were out of what I ordered. This is not as good as what I ordered, and I do hope they will send it to me eventually. Then one I ordered had iron and minerals and such, dang it all.

Genette Multivit is a highly concentrated multivitamin complex for Racing Pigeon

The solution Multivir GENETTE contains a selection of major vitamins essential not only during competitions but also during periods of breeding, moulting, breeding and growth of young.


INSTRUCTIONS:
- During the competition: 2 teaspoons twice a week.

- In case of persistent poor form: 2 teaspoons every day.

- During molting, mating, for producers of youth and young weaned: 1 teaspoon twice a week.

Drinking water containing Multivit GENETTE must be renewed every day.

COMPOSITION:
- Vitamin A
- Vitamin B1
- Vitamin B2
- Vitamin B5
- Vitamin B6
- Vitamin B8
- Vitamin B12
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin D3
- Vitamin E
- Vitamin PP

FORMAT
- Bottle 250 ml
Additional Information


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*should I order a protein powder now?*

or would a human one work as well?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Navarretes said:


> we did check her mouth tonight, just a very light pink, no white patches anywhere. I'm thinking she is anemic, which could be diet related, and I'm trying to remedy that. * I will try frozen peas again, she didn't eat them before. The peas in the seed mixture are too big and she tosses them out, I am crushing sunflower seed and peanuts for her. *Anything else I can do to get protein in her? The multivitamin I have been putting 1/8 tsp in her drinking cup. This vitamin was sent to me as a *substitute*, they were out of what I ordered. This is not as good as what I ordered, and I do hope they will send it to me eventually. Then one I ordered had iron and minerals and such, dang it all.
> 
> Genette Multivit is a highly concentrated multivitamin complex for Racing Pigeon
> 
> ...



If you use the split peas and lentils you get at any super market, they are protein, and good for the bird. Much smaller than the peas in the seed mixes. I have mentioned them before, so don't understand the problem about protein.
Also you said the bird wouldn't eat defrosted peas. Of course she won't. You need to open her beak and put them in one at a time, close her beak and let her swallow, then put in another one. It really isn't difficult.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*Let's chill please*

I am very new to all of this, and it is stressful for me, please let's all relax...I need this advice. I did not know I needed to force feed the pigeon, I have been offering different foods and she wasn't willing to eat it by herself, I never thought of making her eat it. I'm worried about stressing her by catching her and force feeding her, she's not feeling well and molting, but I will try.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When a pigeon isn't eating, you need to get food into her or she will get weak quickly. It's easy once you get used to it. 
If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.
Try to get about 50 peas into her a couple of times a day. Or maybe 35 peas 3 times a day. Give about 6 hours for the crop to empty before you feed again. You will also be able to tell crop is working by the amount of droppings.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*poop today*

















Looks better today!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Has she been eating on her own, or hand fed?


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*Eating*

she's been eating on her own, but I am going to give her some peas tonight.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah seems necessary to hand feed, so you may know why her poop is not normal because of under nutrition or some blockage .
About your toddler, I have my niece(2.5 years) and nephew(4 years) who live with my 4 pigeons almost all the time in the same room,with pigeons flying here and there, shedding feathers, pooping etc. even pigeons get sick too but they don't affect kids' health. So may be just a coincidence in your case, you may relate to bird. Here kids too become sick but that seems normal because anyone can, either critters or toddlers but relating pigeon to kids diseases,less likely. Never saw such thing in my home so I don't think she is creating any problems to your family's health. This is my opinion and experience, if any exception I have no idea of. Well thanks to care for her so much, ordering so many expensive products for her,seems you love her but just a little afraid of illness of family members which I think will be alright in coming time. 
Wish everyone out there in your home be healthy, bird as well as family


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You still don't know if she is pooping enough for what she is taking in, because you have no idea of how much she is eating.


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## Navarretes (Jan 10, 2015)

*today*

today she stuffed herself with all kinds of food I left for her and has been pooping a ton!! It's not good poop, but I think the antibiotics are affecting it, but there is a lot more of the poop!! Still a lot of white with the poop though


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Do you have a scale? It's easy to tell from weight whether a bird is maintaining, gaining, or losing weight so you will know whether the bird needs supplemental hand feeding. Glad to hear she ate a ton! Hopefully she is eating by herself now. I think there is supposed to be white with the poop, that's the urate.


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