# Can't figure out why he can't fly



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Last Monday night my dog and I found a pigeon 'nesting' on the grass in the local park. He led me a merry dance before I could catch him, as he wouldn't fly but he ran like a road-runner.
When I brought him home and examined him I couldn't find the reason why he couldn't fly -- and I'm still at a loss.

This is the first photo I took of him in the 'quarantine' cage:










He's in very good condition, no breaks that could be felt, well fed, no parasites (strange for a feral), good symmetry, no lumps apart from a very small enlargement of the right elbow and a tiny patch of missing feathers with almost-healed scar tissue on the nape of the neck. Abdomen ok, vent clean, textbook-perfect first poops.

There's no discharge or swelling on the face, and he appears to see alright: 










He's aware and alert, interested in his surroundings:










and he's incredibly tame and relaxed:










The slight lump in front of my finger corresponds to the healed scar tissue, and it only stood out here because he'd been tugging at those feathers whilst preening.

I considered the possibility of the onset of Paratyphoid, so I put him on Synulox, and also Flagyl (just in case). Since then his poops have become more like brownish-green broken spaghetti in a clear, slightly sticky liquid, but Piper's poops have also changed in a similar way, as the temperature has shot up and they've been drinking more. But the feral's poops have a distinct odour, almost like curry, which Piper's don't have.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Movement*

He can walk, run and hop onto plant pots:










But he doesn't fly at all, though his demeanour suggests he is considering it. Here is a short video clip of him walking around, investigating the place and failing to perch on the bar under the table, a foot off the ground.

http://s333.photobucket.com/albums/m381/Skbllz/Pigeons/Poppet/?action=view&current=DSCNB0114-Miss.flv

Problems with balance? But he managed ok with the plant pot...


----------



## spok (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm a relative novice when it comes to pigeons but the fact that you said he's a great runner makes me wonder whether he has been used to not flying for a while.

I have a small parrot that drops like a stone when he's trying to fly and there's absolutely nothing wrong with him. I used to have a budgie with exactly the same problem. Normally in the wild you wouldn't think they'd last long. But you never know, some birds are smart and lucky. I wouldn't automatically think that him making moves as if he was about to take off has to be an indication that he flew until recently. My flightless birds have done the same.

A while ago, I came across a collared dove lingering in the garden unable to fly. I quaranteened it for a short while, fed and watered it and what happened, it took to the air again. No idea what its problem was. But sometimes just looking after them and giving them a bit of tlc seems to work wonders. 

Spok


----------



## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

Feral, tame and relaxed.. don't like the sound of this..

As with flying, birds usually hesitate on flying when they suffer respiratory infection, 
canker or structural problems. In the 1st photo it doesn't look like a healthy pose to 
me, but then again might be my imagination.

Did you check the inside of the mouth, the throat for example any smelling or strange
looking things? check the sound of breathing at night, is't loud/noisy or starnge?

Or it might be what spok said..​


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

perhaps he has an old spinal injury and is handicapped. you can keep him and see how things go, but he may end up being your pet....of course do all the things he needs as far as deworming and poop checks. If he is eating and not in pain then it may always be a mystery. wish they could talk.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, I would treat for worms, canker and coccidiosis, and do the preventatives like probiotics and ACV and garlic.

Once he has time to get some nutrition and good meals, he just may fly again.


----------



## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Just two quick qusetions:

1. DId you check his flight feathers to see if everything is there?

2. If you pick him up about shoulder high and give him a toss, does he try to fly or just drop like a stone.

By the way, a pigeon's brain is located at he back of its head, not on top like a human. Just about exactly where that scar tissue is.


----------



## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

It could be just the angle of the video but the birds posture doesn't seem right to me. Almost like he's holding is body down and not standing up normally the way pigeons do. Could be a spine injury. If there's an enlargement of the elbow that could indicate a healing fracture.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you so much for your advice. Here are the answers to your questions.

There aren't any growths in his mouth, and he's eating, drinking and preening normally. His breathing is normal, effortless. Earlier on he even started cooing!!
The flight feathers are all there and in perfect condition. I haven't tried to toss him off my shoulder for fear he would hurt himself, but I'll try it at some point.
He does seem to stand quite low a lot of the time, and he perches resting his whole body on his feet, but he's quite alert. I can't get over how tame he is! I think he may have been a pet, especially if his reason for not flying is not a recent injury or illness, as I 'patrol' the park twice a day and I would have seen him.

The poops seem to be getting more watery and this is worrying me, even though the medication, hot weather and change of diet will undoubtedly have an influence.


----------



## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

A long time ago i used to have a pigeon that was reluctant to fly.. i would chase 
it and it would run away and could jump over obstacles but wouldn't fly, it didn't
show any other symptoms.. except after a month or so it started to show heavy
breathing at night, i used doxy-t and after 2 weeks it started to fly and behave
normally. now, this might not be what's wrong with yours i just thought i would
share it..

You have to note that birds in general try their best to hide their illness, so they 
won't become a victim of bullying by other birds. therefore symptoms might not
show up early untill the bird is so sick to even care to hide it.

Still, i don't like the pose of the 1st pic.. it doesn't look normal!​


----------



## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

teresa,.physical aspects can be misleading,.watch the intake of food and output/poops,.keep the clavamox handy ,/.beeks-(grown pigeon.) had very watery sikly green poops/then could not fly/squatted down to sleep,..a few doses of antibiotic pulled her through,but it was about a three week ordeal/including learning/desiring flight-even my best effort could not save her baby-(walle),...sincerely james waller [email protected]


----------



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I have a pij Strause that won't fly. I tried to release her awhile back and she would not take off from the ground. She ran quick and it took awhile to catch her weaving in and out of stuff on my patio. She's fine otherwise. 

I had another pij who has the same posture as yours. I was afraid to let her go because of that. Everything else was good with her so I did let her go. She flys fine but just walks low.

I believe it's her that comes back and hangs out and sometimes stays on my patio at night. Same posture and doesn't seem to be bothered by me.

I don't know.


----------



## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

In the video that bird has some thing wroung with its right wing.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> In the video that bird has some thing wroung with its right wing.


Yes, there is a very slight enlargement of that elbow, so I thought Paratyphoid was a definite suspect and started him on Salmonella-specific antibiotics, but there are none of the characteristic lumps. It looks more like he had it in the past.
I recently released a rehab I had been treating and which, even on release, had a much bigger swelling, and yet he flew like an arrow: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/my-baby-is-free-33169.html


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

alhowiriny said:


> A long time ago i used to have a pigeon that was reluctant to fly.. i would chase
> it and it would run away and could jump over obstacles but wouldn't fly, it didn't
> show any other symptoms.. except after a month or so it started to show heavy
> breathing at night, i used doxy-t and after 2 weeks it started to fly and behave
> ...


Apart from Paratyphoid, my other main suspect was Ornithosis, hence an antibiotic indicated also for respiratory tract infections, but the pigeon wasn't showing any of the symptoms. The alarm bells rang when you said that your bird only showed the symptoms a month or so later, so it's still a possibility.
I haven't got doxy-t, so I'm going to find out more about it and get some.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

jameswaller said:


> teresa,.physical aspects can be misleading,.watch the intake of food and output/poops,.keep the clavamox handy ,/.beeks-(grown pigeon.) had very watery sikly green poops/then could not fly/squatted down to sleep,..a few doses of antibiotic pulled her through,but it was about a three week ordeal/including learning/desiring flight-even my best effort could not save her baby-(walle),...sincerely james waller [email protected]


Many thanks for your advice, James. I'm sorry you couln't save baby Walle, but glad to know mum pulled through. I'm getting worried about the worsening condition of the poops, but can't understand why that happened more than twenty-four hours after being unable to fly. The first poops were perfectly normal. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Could he have a cracked collar bone( clavicle) ? If it is cracked they wont fly either. Been over that with my vet and many other birds I had rehabbed and that was what was wrong.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

KIPPY said:


> I have a pij Strause that won't fly. I tried to release her awhile back and she would not take off from the ground. She ran quick and it took awhile to catch her weaving in and out of stuff on my patio. She's fine otherwise.
> 
> I had another pij who has the same posture as yours. I was afraid to let her go because of that. Everything else was good with her so I did let her go. She flys fine but just walks low.
> 
> ...


My daughter asked a curious question when she saw the pigeon. She asked if it was possible that he didn't know how to fly, if maybe he'd always been in captivity before. It sounds crazy, but seeing how tame and fat he is, it's not impossible. I just hope he's not ill or in pain. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Serendipity...*



spirit wings said:


> perhaps he has an old spinal injury and is handicapped. you can keep him and see how things go, but he may end up being your pet....of course do all the things he needs as far as deworming and poop checks. If he is eating and not in pain then it may always be a mystery. wish they could talk.


Your post made me laugh, because I'd just been talking to him and said exactly that, 'Wish you could talk...'
And yes, if he's flightless but otherwise alright, I'd love to keep him. And therein lies the greater mystery: I had been making enquiries with local people who keep pigeons, trying to buy a flightless or handicapped pigeon to keep Piper company (that was the idea whem I bought him the luxury cage that will house two in comfort). Piper gets all excited when there are rehabs in the house, but gets lonely when they are released. He had become especially attached to Noel, but Noel was desperate to be free and we had to let him go.
Well, I drew a blank with the breeders, and then suddenly this pigeon comes on the scene!! I've named him Poppet as he's such a little darling. I'll do everything in my power to make sure he's healthy and becomes able to fly, but if he's alright and simply flightless he may just be the answer to my prayers!


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> Could he have a cracked collar bone( clavicle) ? If it is cracked they wont fly either. Been over that with my vet and many other birds I had rehabbed and that was what was wrong.


Now that's very interesting, as he's got a healed scar just below the nape of his neck, with a very few feathers missing. It looks like the result of pecking, perhaps by a seagull, as the seagull juveniles are hungry and aggressive at this time of the year and flock onto the park when the pigeons are fed.

His wings fold and unfold well, and he opens them to hop, but on closer inspection he doesn't raise them above his body, so a collar bone injury definitely seems like a possibility. *What's the best course of action in this case? *


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you know there are sooo many things that could of happend, a dog trainer's dog bit too hard down on him, a pellet gun wounded him, or even a real gun could of grazed him, and yea another bigger bird could of wounded him....I know it may take some money, but have you thought about an exray, just to see the bones. you don't really have to of course if he is well now, it would be just to see what is going on. but that is just an idea.


----------



## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

As i said birds do their best to hide illness, without medical examination 
the only thing you got is guessing & assumptions.. 

Doxy-T = Doxycyline + Tylan. Now, i wouldn't rush into medication if i 
were you until at least i narrow down the possibilities of the problem.. 
or if there's visible sign of the problem that would limit the possibilities.

You don't want to loose money on antibiotics, stressing the bird with it and 
spending time & effort in vain.​


----------



## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

The bird's musculature which raises the wing for flight is basically a tendon which runs from the sternum up to where the clavical (or collarbone) and a bone called the coracoid join together to form a fulcrum of sorts and on to the wing. If that muscle or the bones process becomes impaired, a bird can fly if launched, but it can not take off. What you see is a bird that can raise its wings to the approximately level position, but no higher, nor does it fan its wings to exercise.

As spirit wings pointed out that could be the result of several things, trauma, bacterial infection, etc. If the bird displays asymmetrical posture, you should suspect trauma. Sometimes fractures heal and the bird can resume normal lifestyle, sometimes not. Since there is no definite apparent way to know the time of onset of the problem, there may be little you can do except provide supportive care.


----------



## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm paying close attention to this thread, because I'm having very similar "problems" with a feral that I've had for nearly a month now. 

I've treated for possible trich(canker) - but while the bird's eating (and even putting on weight, I think!) there's still no interest in flying.

Do I treat for possible coccidosis/respriatory issues next? Not to hijack your thread. 

(actually, could mods move my San Francisco Feral thread into this sub-forum, please?)


----------



## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Have you felt the keel? Run your fingers down the full length of it - a bird with a broken keel cannot fly. Sometimes, if they are frightened by a hawk, they will hit the ground hard and break their keel in their panic.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

The keel's not broken, I just felt it again to make sure.

Some other possible causes can also be ruled out, like dog training, shooting or hawks, as the park is small and right in the city centre, further than 5 miles away from any of those. I don't think he was bitten, as there were almost no feathers missing, and no blood at all. If he's injured, the most likely culprits would be people, vehicles or perhaps (but less likely) seagulls, though these are herring gulls or smaller and their aggression usually consists of grabbing tail feathers.
If the pigeon was not deliberately placed in the park, he either walked there already handicapped (improbable but possible) or else he became unable to fly (through injury or illness) less than 18 hours before I found him, perhaps less. And yet the cause is not apparent.

He's still on antibiotics and I think he's enjoying all the fuss. Piper has been koo-rooing most of the day, and he answered back several times...


----------



## Guest (Mar 16, 2009)

Teresa some things are just ment to be so why fight it just embrace it


----------



## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Birds that become crippled and unable to fly hide somewhere during the night and try to come out and mix with other pigeons during the day to eat and to conceal their infirmity. He could have been there for several days, but your reasoning is sound. That whatever happened probably happened right there at the park.

In any event after he finishes the course of antibiotic and still shows no ability to fly that would leave only trauma as the likely explanation.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> Teresa some things are just ment to be so why fight it just embrace it


I agree, you may be scratching your head forever on this one, If he is eating and drinking and healthy. just love him.
you could always name him "road runner"....


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

How are the poops today?

Cynthia


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Getting pecking fit!*

Poop consistency is better, and he's becoming more active, exercising his wings, and less tame! When I gave him his meds last night he actually pecked me, lol!
He's certainly improving, and has already managed to jump from the floor to the seat of a chair, but that must have tired him because on his second attempt he missed. Fingers crossed!

PS. This is the only pigeon I've ever looked after who eats the barley before all the other goodies!


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

spirit wings said:


> I agree, you may be scratching your head forever on this one, If he is eating and drinking and healthy. just love him.
> you could always name him "road runner"....


I've called him Poppet, because he's a real darling!


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Progress*

Last night, while he was free to roam on the floor, he astonished me by suddenly flying up into his cage, about 1.5 metre straight up, but after that he looked exhausted and squatted at the back of the cage, his body visibly rising and falling with each breath. But his beak wasn't open, and there was no sound when he breathed. So I just checked on him every few hours during the night, and eventually his breathing became normal.
However, the area between the base of his neck and his back is swollen again. This made me think that he may, in fact, be recovering from an lnjury at that point, and that his flight was too much effort too soon, so, unless anyone advises me otherwise, I'm going to keep him confined for a few weeks to give the bones a chance to heal properly.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Great news!*

POPPET IS FLYING!

Just a few tentative flights at first, either to see Piper or back to his cage.










http://s333.photobucket.com/albums/m381/Skbllz/Pigeons/Poppet/?action=view&current=DSCNB0269-flight.flv

Now there's no stopping him, he's become a real show-off!

http://s333.photobucket.com/albums/m381/Skbllz/Pigeons/Poppet/?action=view&current=DSCNB0366-flightperfect.flv

And romance is clearly in the air...


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a wonderful update, and how blessed you are to see this this romance blossom!


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It's wonderful he can fly. Keep him a little longer confined, hopefully he will recover completely and be able to fly without much effort.

Reti


----------

