# Medicine chest for sick Pigeons ?



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I know alot of you are extremely experienced in sick pigeons, I was wondering what medicines to always keep on hand when dealing with sick Pigeons. What kinds to keep and what are they used for and where to purchase them from. I get most of mine through my wildlife vet and she doesn't always tell me what kinds to get or what they treat. I would like to purchase some but I am unfamiliar with all the varieties out there. Too many to choose from. 

Thanks everyone

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I always have on hand
a sulfa drug - for coccidia (and other infections)
Ivomec - dewormer
Cipro - for infections
Clavamox - for cat, dog, hawk etc. injuries.
Flagyl - for canker
Neosporin cream or Silvadene cream for wounds

An antifungal, like Nystatin, is also good to have on hands.

Colloidal Silver - natural antiinfective
Neem oil - antiinflammatory
Thuja occidentalis - for pox
Arnica Montana - for injuries
Apple Cider Vinegar
Activated Charcoal

Syringes of 1cc/ wihout needle
Syringes 25 or 30cc for tube feeding
Feeding tubes
Formula

Hope it helps

Reti

PS: I forgot the probiotics, Scat and garlic capsules.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cindy, 

Certain things are more prevelant with pigeons than other bird species but things *I would* have on hand are:

- an ecto/endo parasitic family of drugs for worms, lice/mites and ticks of avians
- Something in the sulfa based drugs to treat Coccidiosis
- something to treat "canker" trichimoniasis (have a few drugs/treatment plans handy) to combat resistance
- a few broad based antibitics both gram positive and gram negative ones like baytril/cypro, tetracycline, or one of the other "cline" family of drugs.

These are ONLY my opinions and suggestions of course however.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank you Cindy, 

This is a great thread. Reti and Brad thank you so much for the information.

Feather


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cindy,

I think both Reti and Brad have done a good job of covering the essentials. 

Here are a couple of links where I, and many others here, get meds from.

http://jedds.com/
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/

All the best,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Cindy

We keep on hand:

Baytril, 22.7% (antibiotic - liquid)
Baytril, 22.7% (antibiotic - tablets)
Amoxicillin (antibiotic)
Tylan (antibiotic)
Bactrim (antibiotic - but not as strong as Baytril)
Corid (for coccidiosis)
Sulmet (for coccidiosis) (we alternate the two)
Metronidazole, 500 mg. tablets for canker
Spartrix for canker
Nystatin (antifungal)
Ivermectin (for mites/worms)
Pyrantel (for worms)
Panacur (for worms) (we have a wormy bunch! )
Scatt spray (for mites)
Silver Sulfadene (for wounds)
Probios and Benebac (both probiotics)

If I think of any more I'll add them later. We also keep 1 cc diabetic type syringes, and feeding syringes in 3, 5, 10, 20 cc sizes, Catac nipples, Betadene (antiseptic iodine like stuff for wounds).

If I had to list the top things I would have it would be Bactrim, Baytril, Sulmet, Nystatin, Metronidazole, Pyrantel, Scatt Spray, Silver Sulfadene and Benebac powder. Also invaluable to us is a mortar and pestle to grind pills to a very fine powder. We got ours from World Market for about $3.00.

Hope this helps.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi naturegirl, 



Just as important also, are...

Some simple smallish Cages for the convelesent Pigeon to be in while sick or injured...

Some basic electic Heating Pads...

An assortment of smallish Terrycloth Towells, for covering the Heating Pad and Cage bottom, 'white' being the best, so one can easily see and evaluate and count poops...and for making loosely rolled 'do-nuts' or 'U' shapes, for Leg injured Pigeons to lay on in their Cage...

Some small, steep sided, inch and a half deep Custard Cups or similar, for Water Bowls and or for Seed Bowls...

A pair of fine Cuticle Scizzors, and some fine tipped slender Tweezers for dealing with thread or hair intangled Feet and Toes...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is what I have, besides some of the traditional meds already mentioned:

Now brand garlic soft gel caps- immune building, a must for every rehab bird

Allicidin Complex-more potent form of garlic, for infection, natural anti bacterial,fungul, viral. 

Reishi capsules-heavy duty natural antibiotic, promotes the T and B cells, so vital to immune system.(phase 1, phase 2 liver detox)

Neem oil-anti-viral, inflammatory, anti bacterial. Can be used topically as well as internally(pox, canker)

Cinchona- for severe dehydration, helps with reabsorption to get moisture back in tissues.

Colloidal Silver (Sovereing brand) use internal or external for infection.

Symphitum- Helps heal bones and cartiledge, when fracture has been correctly set.

Arnica Montana- used for trauma, head swelling, bruising, helps heal and reduce swelling and cleans up the blood.

Nux Vomica intestinal cleansing, helps with upset stomachs

Chapparell tea- for major deworming

Barley leaf powder- heavy metal detox, lead, mercury

Milk Thistle-liver detox

Chlorella-detox

Apis- for major swelling and head trauma

Thuja Occidentalis-used for pox/canker. 
Tea tree oil-use topically for lesions, external. or thuja oil

Chux pads-for rehab, they really soak up the wattery/messy poops SO well, once you use them you don't know how you can live without 'em.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi naturegirl,

In addition to many of the medications and alternative health products mentioned I keep:

**an ophthalmic ointment on hand, Terramycin 
**A 'one shot' coccidiosis medication on hand (Clazuril/Coximed by Medpet) for rescues as I can worm and treat for coccidiosis in fast order and be on to an anti-biotic of choice more expeditiously w/out overburdening w/too many meds at once. 
**Rotational meds for worms, coccidiosis and canker on hand and rotate for my own, this wouldn't be as critical factor for rescues only, although for an aggressive canker you might want to have Flagyl (metronidazole) and Spartrix(Carnidazole) on hand. 
**Worms--Medipet's Mediworm, Scatt and Ivomec injectable
**KT Exact on the shelf for extremely sick birds, jouveniles and babies that I may pick up in my travels.
**For topical applications, I have Metronidazole cream, Panafil (debrider) and 
Bach's Rescue Cream (string foot injuries)
**Small capped containers for measuring many dosages at once on a digital scale
**Test tubes and holder for mixing syringable dosages
** Eye droppers, a set of measuring spoons, and other measuring devices that give ml, tsp,tbls,and oz equivalents on them.
**Red cell and winsmore for vitamins
**Scales for weighing birds, food, etc.
**As Phil mentioned, lots of food and water bowls, lol
**Hospital cages, i.e. dog carriers from the pet store
**Avian healthcare/medical books

Here's a couple of links from PigeonNetwork on the topic of Medicine Chests:

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetusa/DrDavidMarx/medicine.cfm

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...panacur+pigeons&d=a3NY45IFNgHJ&icp=1&.intl=us

And here's a link from the resource section for a more complete listing of Pigeon Supplies:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

fp


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thank You so much guys for replying, I would like to start a chest for Pigeons as they always seem to find me and would like to be able to help them ASAP rather than wating to speak to the vet. This info certainly helps alot. It still really bothers me that I had to have the Pigeon I acquired the other day stuck in cement put down even though I know I couldn't help it as too many bad breaks It just doesn't sit easily with me when losing a pigeon. Somehow in my eyes they are such sweet passive birds just looking to be loved. Thanks again everyone!! 

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Cindy,
> 
> Certain things are more prevelant with pigeons than other bird species but things *I would* have on hand are:
> 
> ...


Hello Brad,

Hey I feel like I must have missed something in all these lists I am looking at. Is she going to start a medical clinic or animal hospital...... One year I started using less drugs and the birds got healthier. I am concerned that in untrained hands, that too many fanciers start grabbing bottles off the shelf and giving some of this, then that...so sooner or later they get the right one. If the sickness does not kill the bird, then sometimes the various drugs do...just think some fanciers are not following proper medical protoco in the use of various drugs, and that is a concern.

The few items you have listed above is all I carry in the drug area. Now, when it comes to vits and minerals, and "magic" stuff like ACV, Garlic...the capsules, the bulbs, the oil, I have a whole refrigerator full of various items. I assume they are doing a lot of good, they certainly make me feel better having them.

The ecto/ endo drops for worms, lice etc. Is a newer product that I have added to my inventory, how does it really work ? I have heard some positive things regarding it, and it seems pretty simple to use. I went looking for the stuff after a shipping night at the club. A fellow fancier had lice and pigeon flies on his birds. It grossed me out, the thought that my birds were going into the same crates with poor birds covered in parasites !  I was not prepared for the fight that would have followed had I tried to ban his birds from shipping. Sure enough when my birds came back, they had lice !!!  They had been dipped earlier in the season, but I was fearful of excessive chemicals on my birds being asorbed through the skin, from my dipping.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Warren no I am not opening a hospital or anything like that but was wondering what kinds of meds to keep on hand when I get a sick pigeon in for rehabbing. There is nothing worse then getting a sick pigeon in and the vet is unavailable for some reason or another. I always come here for ALL other advice and act accordingly. See when I am asked what meds I have on hand I seem to always say 1 medicine. I would never give meds without someone telling me how and what kinds to use. I can hand feed, give meds, etc. but when it comes to the medicine side i am at a loss. 

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Cindy, if you get any meds try toget them in tablet form as they have a longer expiration date. The meds already prepared expire pretty quickly, sometimes before you get a chance to use them.
Try Foy's or Siegel's and also get the natural stuff Treesa recommends, they have a longer shelf life.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, Reti is right about the pill form lasting longer. As far as I know, most pills can be liquidized with a suspension agent such as water, honey, syrups (I even had one lab mix Itraconazole with Coca-cola).

I think feral pigeon mentioned this but a gram scale is at the top of my list for items to have. You can really gauge a sick bird's progress through weighing them frequently and keeping records.

An example of this - we had to bring in one of our aviary pigeons because of a significant weight loss. We wormed her and she passed numerous worms but was still sick. I have kept daily records of her weight, sometimes 3 or 4 times a day and the weights have fluctuated like nothing I've ever seen before. We put her on Baytril for 7 days and she seemed to show some improvement initially. When she went to the vet I took all my records along and we were able to determine through the weight charts that she did, in fact, gain weight after finishing the Baytril but after a few days began losing weight again. We're presently waiting for her blood work report to come in to see if there is anything going on with her liver. 

Although I keep a supply of meds available, I do not administer them without discussing this with our vet and getting stool cultures done or anything else she advises us to do. A vet is the same as any other doctor - sometimes they require additional testing, like blood work, to make a proper diagnosis. The cost can be prohibitive too because lab work at a vet's office is just as expensive as a medical doctor's. So far, we already have over $200 invested in trying to help this little girl. 

Did you ever get your federal permit?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hello Brad,
> 
> Hey I feel like I must have missed something in all these lists I am looking at. Is she going to start a medical clinic or animal hospital.... I am concerned that in untrained hands, that too many fanciers start grabbing bottles off the shelf and giving some of this, then that...so sooner or later they get the right one.
> 
> The ecto/ endo drops for worms, lice etc. Is a newer product that I have added to my inventory, *how does it really work ?*



Hi Warren, 

I agree with what you're saying and I often feel that people rush to the medicine cabinet too quickly & too frequently. I only keep the basics myself in the medicine department and pretty much what I listed for the common problems a person is likely to encounter when keeping pigeons. Sometimes we get desperate though, and if we don't have a good avian vet to rely upon.

I think it's important to mention and especially for people just starting with pigeons (not referring to Cindy/Naturegirl), that the "shotgun" method of medicating isn't the best approach to use. Also, a newbie should consult either someone who's in-the-know; like an experienced fancier, this forum or at least do some serious research into diseases/causes/symptoms/treatments.

The endo/ecto drops I don't have or use, but I think they work in a similar way that ivermectin and moxidectin do. These medicines are absorbed through the skin and interfere in the life cycle of internal and external parasites somehow. Pidgey or Treesa would likely know how these products work exactly.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

No I haven't, the classes were full at the time so I am going to try again this year. I first have to go for my State test first then my Federal. I have a funny feeling they will tell me no permit till I get a real house. Right now I live in a nice double wide trailer in a nice park. I hate living in here as I want a house with a big back yard and my own Loft but just can't afford anything right now. Is there any study books out there to get ready for these tests? The next testing is in March from what I understand. I just want to be ready for it is all. I wouldn't give meds out either without consulting the vet first, she is the one with the Degree not me  
I always weigh all the birds that come in and then go from there keeping very good eye on that and keeping my own records so I can show the vet if there is a problem. 

Thanks Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, I didn't know some states require testing to get a state license. Back when we got ours NC did not require anything like that but it has been a number of years ago. As I remember, we filled out a questionnaire and they visited the premises to see the "accommodations". We never saw them but I guess they did because we got the license.

The feds required pictures of all facilities, including aviaries and cages plus recommendations from a veterinarian and a federally licensed rehabber as well as a letter from the state wildlife folks that there was a need for rehabbers in our area. I believe there was also a one or two page questionnaire to complete. 

If you can find a wildlife group to join, they may hold classes and have manuals that you can buy. I belong to a group like that and for several years they held classes each spring and we were taught different things. Personally, I think you can find almost anything you need to know by searching the web at various sites like forums, vets, and even places like pigeon supply houses will cover a lot of diseases and injuries that would apply even to songbirds. Try to find a federally licensed rehabber in Michigan who would be willing to take you under her wing for awhile. We were lucky in that one "adopted" us and gave us a lot of one on one training which, to me, beats most books you read.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Maggie and thanks for writing back. Yes Michigan requires rehabbers to take a test to get their permit. Even though I have been doing this on my own now for the last 15 or so years. I have the hands on experience and alot of knowledge about rehabbing it still wouldn't matter to them as they still have to get their last dime out of you. It wouldn't be bad but they charge you to take the test and then you have to renew it every year as well but before you can renew it you have to retake the test again and pass it. Rehabbing in Michigan can get expensive as you all know you pay for everything out of your own pocket as well. But I love the wildlife and all my bird buddies so it is a cost well spent to me. The permit means nothing to me as just more red tape to cross. It is the birds life that counts in my eyes. Even if I can stablize it till I can get it to my permited rehabber friend that is all that matters. I still to this day do not understand the logistic behind having a permit and not as all birds are made the same and most eat the same, except diets are different according to species. Baffles me. 

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, it boggles my mind that they would ever charge you for a permit. They sure try to wring every $ they can out of folks, don't they. After all, you are doing this as a service and get absolutely nothing monetary out of it - course, I'm like you, the money I spend directly on the birds doesn't matter that much but seems like they could help people out by not charging for the permits.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cindy, check out the Avian Medicine books at Amazon.com, I have seen books 
to help folks prepare for vet techs I believe. I've never queried for books 
on the topic, but they just come up towards the end of the page under the
'people who bought this book also bought' section. I've also never queried 
about books to specifically help one prepare for a rehab permit, but think you
may find something that fits the bill there.

fp


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I agree with you Maggie. I am a bit ticked at the thought that you want so badly to help out the wild birds and then they soak you $80.00 for the test and another $45.00 for a permit. Then for the Federal test. The renewal every year is $45.00 and to take the test is another $62.00. So everything out of your pocket to take care of them not to mention the the extras for permits. It all boils down to cash. I personally can understand taking the test as it keeps you up to date and weeds out the people who really don't understand how to do it etc. but the test should be free and maybe charge for the permit. Too me that little piece of paper is just that a piece of paper, it can not replace 15 years of my knowlegde or experience. I am not one for breaking the law and won't but I do know what I am doing. If I run into trouble then I start asking questions to the vet about meds but come on here for the best advice as it seems to be better then what the vet can recommend anyday. 

FP: Thanks I am going to Barns and Nobels today matter of fact and I am going to look into what you mentioned. Thank You again.

Cindy


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cindy,

I have ordered books from here before, they have a good selection.

http://www.avianpublications.com/

Ron


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thank You Ron there are alot of interesting books on that site. Wrote a bunch down maybe I can find something to help out there. Thanks again

Cindy


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