# Young pigeon with deformed legs



## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Hello,

There is a old, semi-abandoned building near me which houses a lot of pigeons, and I pass by there from time to time, occassionally giving the pigeons something to eat. Today, there was a bird on a little shed -- this is short, and attached to the building -- there was a pigeon that seemed to be missing some feathers on it around noon, "grazing" with a few other pigeons. It was still there a few hours later, and there were a couple of other pigeons watching over it from above (presumably its parents) -- it clearly could not develop enough lift to fly well. I went back after dark, and it was still on a little window ledge that it had "flown" to when I scared it earlier (a low ledge). I figured the little guy wasn't safe, so with a little trouble, I got him, and brought him back to my place. Based on a website with pictures of pigeons at various ages, I assume he is 22 to 23 days old.

Now, I had noticed he had been walking around funny when he was on the shed, but I figured it just looked that way because of the missing feathers. Once I got him, it became clear that this was not the case. His right leg is rotated about the vertical axis about 90 degrees from where it should be, and his left leg is rotated about the longitudinal axis about 90 degrees from normal.

I've got him in a box lined with paper towels and such. He has water, and has been drinking. I don't have much in the way of food for him; I gave him a little custom mush made out of some soy protein powder I have, and water. He ate a little. I gave him a broken up peanut too. He fumbled around, but did manage to pick up and eat a few pieces on his own.

Unfortunately, I cannot keep this guy, but I didn't want to leave him out to get munched in the night or dehydrate. If anyone around Boston would be willing to take this guy, I'd be rather greatful (I'd offer to drive him somewhere, but I don't have a car).

I've got a lot of pictures of him. Because of his weird legs, I'll err on the side of posting too many, to see if anyone knows whats wrong with him (I presume something happened at birth -- he doesn't seem to be in any pain in his legs / wings / feet).


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

And some more.


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

A few more photos.


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

A couple more.


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

The last one...


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello & Welcome,
What a little doll baby you have there. Many thanks for taking him in.
You have posted some very good pictures. 

It looks like this poor pij has a bad case of splayed legs. This condition develops when a newborn doesn't have anything to 'grab' a hold of, thereby causing it's legs to slide out from under them. 

I've never had any personal experience treating a splayed leg pij, however many members here have. Hopefully some will be along shortly to help you out.
I'm sorry I couldn't have been more help.

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That poor baby. I hope you will be able to keep him long enough to correct the splay.

This is a link to photos and guidance on how I corrected a splay leg: http://community.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz (It is a simple procedure. You have to click on each photo to read the guidance).

That was several months ago and the correction held although the pigeon walks with a waddle.

Cynthia


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2005)

*I had one like this*

I had pigeon with a similar look to her legs. Her name was Claudia. The parents (who had raised youngsters before with no problems) fought and killed Claudia's brother by trampling him while they bickered. The surviving one, Claudia, I think had her legs damaged then. For some time I was in a sort of denial about any problem, but after a few days it was obvious. One leg always stuck out, the other leg was bent under her. 

Making matters worse, she managed to damage herself several times flying and landing on her keel. She later learned to use her winds to augment the slight locomotive power of her legs. This quickly wore away many of her feathers so she couldn't fly at all -- probably a good thing. The other pigeons began picking on her, so I isolated her into her own little cage. Actually, it was a laundry basket. One day I noticed her behavior changing slightly. She seemed a little short of breath. The next morning she was dead. She survived several months. I did my best to make her comfortable, but I still sometimes wonder if I should have euthanised her early on. Honestly, I think she did have a life worth living, but it was hard watching her struggle to just move a foot. She could actually move backwards much better than she could move forward, so she would usually back up to where she wanted to go. Even backing up she couldn't back up in a straight line, but would back up in a sort of arc.

I suppose what I want to say is that if there is anyway to fix your bird's legs, that would make his life much better. If being crippled is his fate, the will to live is strong in pigeons. As hard as my Claudia's life was, she ate, drank, and looked with interest at the things around her.

Good luck
Monica


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> That poor baby. I hope you will be able to keep him long enough to correct the splay.
> 
> This is a link to photos and guidance on how I corrected a splay leg: http://community.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz (It is a simple procedure. You have to click on each photo to read the guidance).
> 
> ...


Thank you. I'll do what I can for him. I've got some non-stick, self-adhesive medical tape which should be suitable for properly adjusting his legs.

I've e-mailed Animal Rescue League of Boston ( http://www.arlboston.org/Main/index.aspx ), which, as far as I can tell, is the only animal rescue group in Boston. Hopefully, they will be able to take him.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You always need to ask what animal rescue groups do with pigeons. Often, they will euthanize them if medical attention is required. Please be direct but non-judgemental about that and also please don't hand the bird over if that's the case. We'll try to find somebody else in your area.

Using the leg-taping therapy should eventually work just fine in this bird's case. It's going to take a few weeks, but it's doable. You may have to be progressive with it. The right leg is the one that the foot doesn't lay flat on the floor and you may need to tape on a cardboard "snowshoe" to that it can't help but stay flat (like an outrigger).

Thanks so much for caring for this pigeon. Your kindness is appreciated very much here. Now, you may want to review some of the dietary requirements and we have several threads devoted to that.

By the way, don't know where you are in Boston, but you could check with the folks listed in Hingham in this list:

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

They do rehab and if they're on this list, they accept pigeons. And for a quick nutritional deal, you can give him thawed frozen peas and corn. Don't give him anymore peanuts, even if they're raw. There's some new info on those that indicates it's not a good idea. Almost any other seeds like milo, wheat, popcorn (unsalted and unbuttered), wild bird seed, etc. will work but I expect you'll have to teach him how to eat it by "pecking" with your finger.

Pidgey


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Thank you. I'll be careful about the wildlife rescue center. I somehow have a feeling that they won't take pigeons anyway, though.

I gave him some peas (all in all, he had one peanut, unsalted, and raw -- I'll refrain from giving him more), and he seems to be eating them just fine. He had a little trouble drinking, but after ~15 minutes of "coaching", he figured it out.

The place in Hingham is, unfortunately, a bit too far away as I do not have a car. If it doesn't work out with the other group, then I can hopefully arrange some sort of pickup tomorrow (I can get him most of the way there, so hopefully someone will be willing to drive a couple miles to pick him up).


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi and thank you for trying to help this needy bird.

You may want to check out this place...it is in N. Grafton, MA (exit 11 off MA turnpike). It is the Wildlife Clinic at Tufts University, phone #598 839 7918. Their hours are 8-5 monday through friday, 9-12 saturday and sunday. Here is the link:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/wildlife/service.html

My sister in law was a veterinary student at Tufts and did a rotation there and said many people bring in injured animals and birds and that they are pigeon friendly and do not euthanize unless it is a hopeless case. She also said the head doctor has many connections with people who do rehab in the area, so you may want to check this out.

I don't know how whether this place is near you or not, but thought I'd mention it, just in case.

Good luck,
Linda


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> *Don't give him anymore peanuts, even if they're raw. There's some new info on those that indicates it's not a good idea. *
> Pidgey


 , I didn't know this Pidgey.
Realizing our birds should only get raw peanuts, which is what was offered to this little fella  , I hadn't read anything about it not being a good idea to give them.  
Could you post the link to, or source of, the new info you are referring to? Thanks.

Cindy


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Quick update.

I've bandaged his legs. I put a piece of cardboard on his foot and wrapped it with medical tape, and brought his legs together as in the pictures that Cynthia provided (I'll post some pictures later of my bandaging -- not the best, but should hold him until he gets to someone who knows what they're doing). He can now stand somewhat upright, although when he hops around, his legs end up straight out behind him... but for now, he has good stance.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Cindy,

Here's a link to a webpage that tells the bulk of the story. It's about feeding squirrels and the part where it deals with birds (in passing mention, really) is kind of "down there" aways. I haven't personally vetted the info yet, but it looks like the real thing:

http://www.gottshall.com/squirrels/fhtml04e.htm#0

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Twisted Pigeon,

He might need to be just literally confined to a very small box (low sideboards) such that he's kept standing while not being able to fall over, either, for awhile. That alone could take a week or two. It would seem like forever, but the good effect will last a lifetime. You're doing a great job!

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Welcome*

Twisted pigeon, I am treating two baby rollers with splayed legs. I used make up sponges on thier legs. In my case the tape kept coming off. One of the members here showed me how to cut 2 holes in the songe then put a leg into each hole. One baby the songe stays put the other baby I must adjust the songe whenever I see the baby. I am on the 5 th day of treatment. They are not happy being bond. But I just tell them it is only for alittle while then you will be whole again.


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Thanks for the suggestion. I may try that later, although the tape is holding for now, and he is in a small box which is open above his head and otherwise closed, so he can't move about too much. He's calm now, so I don't think I'll mess with him again for a while. And, he has some water within reach, and some wild bird seed.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Cindy,
> Here's a link to a webpage that tells the bulk of the story. It's about feeding squirrels and the part where it deals with birds (in passing mention, really) is kind of "down there" aways. I haven't personally vetted the info yet, but it looks like the real thing:
> 
> http://www.gottshall.com/squirrels/fhtml04e.htm#0
> ...


Appreciate the link. 
Is that the article in which you were basing your warning/information, 

*"Don't give him anymore peanuts, even if they're raw. There's some new info on those that indicates it's not a good idea"*

on? 
The only reference to birds, that I saw, was,
_*WDFW Urban Wildlife Biologist Patricia Thompson also reports that there are mycotoxins in raw peanuts that can cause liver, kidney, and brain diseases which unfortunately are seen in many birds.*_,

which is quite vague. Without concrete documentation specifically relating to raw peanuts (given in moderation of course) as being harmful to pigeons, it seems premature to suggest that we cease giving them a peanut 'treat' now & then. 
Personally speaking, the article doesn't convince me that giving a raw peanut or two, to my pijjies now & then, is such a bad thing.  

If you do come across any 'pigeon & peanut' information, especially if they're found to be a 'no-no', by all means, please do post it. 

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, Cindy, that was the quote and I'm starting to remember something else but I'm going to have to go looking for it. It's going to take awhile, but I'll email you some pages about mycotoxins and their formation. I know that good homing pigeons have been fed a lot of peanuts and haven't seemed to be the worse for wear, although there is some mention in the Boglin Marsh pigeon papers about it being difficult to store peanuts with them going bad or something like that. I logged it at the time as a strange thing to say so I THINK I remember it!

But my memory's not what it used to be so, you're right, it's all got to be vetted and I will try to get to that this week. I do know, however, of a peanut getting stuck in the bottom of a young pigeon's crop and having to be cut out to save the bird but that's a different thing.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (believe me, they do know a lot about the preservation of birds!) recommends peanuts for feeding garden birds but it is important to buy those that are guaranteed aflatoxin free or have been sold for human consumtion and to store them properly.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/foodfitforbirds/peanuts.asp 

The advice not to feed whole peanuts during the breeding season is given because baby blue tits were found suffocated in the nest after being fed whole peanuts by their parents.

Roasted peanuts can be indigestible so are not recommended as a bird food, they are sometimes roasted hard as rocks

Cynthia


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## jami (Aug 23, 2005)

I think maybe the pigeon i found yesterday may have splay leg, he cannot stand or walk. He did walk/hobble yesterday as i picked him up off the road so i dont know if it is both legs or just the one...i can't get himn into the vet until friday morning but he does not seem to be in any pain..if anything he seems quite content with his living quaters, he has quite the appetite and drinks water well.... would a vet be able to correct this problem or would i have to take him to a specialist???


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Jami,

A competent vet should be able to tell whether the leg problem is due to a break or due to splay .. and should be able to provide the proper corrective treatment in either case. An avian vet would be preferable, but they can be scarcer than hen's teeth in some areas.

I'd try to assure that the bird has a non-slip surface that it can easily grip and also something that will assist in keeping the legs underneath the body .. no sense in potentially making a bad matter worse.

Terry


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*I also have a splayed-legger*

Hi all,

I'm new here, and I just started school, so I don't have tons of time to write introductions and such. But I live in Brooklyn and about a week ago found a young pigeon (according to the 'saving a pigeon' sticky) in my staircase who had been given some food and water but left in the staircase, I'm thinking maybe by some neighbor kids. He obviously wasn't capable of feeding himself or even moving much, so I took him in and made a little home for him on my fire escape. 

I had a very close call today, as it was windy last night, and I woke up this morning to find that he was gone from the fire escape! Seems that the wind had blown away his little cardboard house and him with it! I had to get to class, but when I came back at lunch, I found him on the street! Seems he had managed to fly down and then hidden underneath a car, and by sheer luck, he wasn't smooshed or hurt in anyway. I know, I know, believe me, I had no intention of being negligent. As a result of this, I've now decided that I have to care for him until he's grown. His survival has amazed me, and in the past week, I've become a huge fan of the pigeon.

Anyway, I thought maybe he was just unable to walk because of development, but after reading this thread, I now understand that he's got splayed legs. I'm going to try the treatment shown in this thread with him, but I'd like to know how I should generally be caring for him. He's able to fly but not really take off, maybe because of his legs? He's got feathers, but still bald underneath the wings. Not much yellow down, but not full either. I've been giving him mush made of cooked cream-of-wheat, sometimes throw in some cooked egg, also tried oatmeal and some bread in milk. But I realized today that the best way to feed him is to force food down, but I'm not great at doing that with my hand. 

Anyone tell me how to feed him easily, what I should give him, how often and how long before I can just give him normal grains and such?

Thanks all, so glad to find this forum and all you ornophiles!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Reluctantflier, 

Thank you very much for taking this little bird into your home and heart What a harrowing experience for him being blown off the fire escape, glad to hear that you found him safe and sound

Can you take a look at this website and try to guesstimate his age? Here's the link:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

The creme of wheat isn't so bad but make sure it's served at room temperature and don't add milk, sugar or salt. Milk isn't very good for pigeons and they have a hard time digesting it. It can lead to all sorts of digestive problems so please don't give him this.

Things at home that can be used to feed him are, defrosted and thawed peas, corn and even carrots from the freezer served at room temp. Unpopped, popcorn kernals, uncooked rice - either white or brown. Digestive biscuits crumbled with a wee bit of water added to moisten.

Let us know what you think about his age because this will determine what he's capable of eating. He's going to need to drink as well though likely. Can you try to get him to drink? ....Show him a bowl or dish of water and gently guide his beak into the water, just tipping it in. If he is ready and able, he should take a swig and know what to do from there. 

Sounds like he's a fairly young bird that is not ready to fly yet but is attempting it. You can try to offer him a wild bird seed or a mix for doves, bought at any store. Scatter them on the floor in front of him and "peck" at the seeds with your fingers, he may eat or not. 



Keep us posted and best of luck


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

"Ornophiles," huh? Well, that sounds about right.

Okay, the fact is that this bird can be eating whole seeds at this point. It woudn't be natural for him so some education is in order. Pigeons create something called "pigeon milk" for about the first 10 days of the chicks' lives and it tapers off to nothing during that span. After that, they're really getting a regurgitated variety of well-hydrated seeds. 

They get this by way of sticking their beaks into the parents' beaks and performing this very comical up-and-down motion. during that, the food is at the back of the parent's throat where the chick can ingest at will. I'm sure they just grasp the various pieces (at this point) and swallow 'em down. But, besides the fact that they're hydrated, there's not much difference between that and dry seeds in a bowl.

Getting them to recognize food is going to be your task. You'll have to get some wild bird seed (don't let him have large sunflower seeds yet) or a wild dove/pigeon mix and teach him to peck. This will take some time so you're going to need to do some feeding the hard way until he gets it. You'll also have to teach him how to drink but that's usually a lot easier--you just gently push his head down till his beak is about halfway into the water and if he's thirsty, he'll get it (unless he's not calm).

Pidgey


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Okay, thanks for the info! I guess that tale about feeding birds uncooked rice is an urban myth, huh?

Well, I just fed him again by hand, and he was starving. I think that Pidgey hit it on the head--he's capable of eating himself, but he doesn't do it well, and he's kind of reluctant.

I just tried to give him a drink of water with salt and a little sugar, and kind of held him over the bowl. I think he drank a little, but then he got flustered. I'll try again later. How often do they need to drink?

And how often should I be feeding him, making sure that he eats?

Lastly, just taped his legs per the photos linked to in the beginning of this thread, but as I did it, I realized that his legs aren't splayed, rather they're turned in. Taping them didn't seem to help make them turn out. Are there any other methods to get his legs to turn out? Should I just try and gently twist them out, then tape them? Right now, his legs seem pretty useless--he mainly uses his wings and beak for locomotion, and I think that because of the legs, he can't really balance very well, or lean forward to peck (when I do get him to peck at food, it's only by tipping a bowl of food up so he can peck upwards or forwards, not downwards.) And he flaps his wings a lot when he's trying to eat, which tends to make him flop all over. I find I have to hold his wings steady on top so he can eat!

Thanks for the help, everybody!

PS Just to reassure you all, I've put him in a nice box with newspaper on my indoor windowsill--no more fire escape for him! I had him out there originally because it was so hot indoors last week here in Brooklyn!

PPS from what I see in the photos listed, this guy looks about 23-25 days old, because he doesn't have any hairs/fuzz on his head. But I found him, I guess it was about ten-fourteen days ago, actually, and he didn't have any fuzz then, either. His plumage, esp. on the wings, has filled in quite a bit. I'm wondering if maybe his development is a little behind because of his handicap and his inability to eat easily. So maybe he's a bit older but malnourished? I have no idea where he came from, either--there aren't many flocks of feral pigeons around my building at all...


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Again, 

Yes, there is a method using sponges to correct legs that are misaligned. I'm sorry but I don't have the instructions exactly. However, it involves using a sponge with small holes cut out and you place the bird's feet into the properly spaced holes. Hopefully other members will be able to advise you on this method.

Water should always be available to him...if he's learned to drink, leave a deep, heavy dish of water in his box so that he may drink when he wants.

Feeding, well, every few hours, try to get something in him no matter how little it seems and if he will eat the occasional seeds as well, this is also good.

Wow, you're a very determined and caring person...way to go!!!


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*update*

So I just fed the little fella some uncooked brown rice, and he went crazy, he loved the stuff! Looks like his pecking hasn't been the problem so much as I've been feeding him food that was too mushy!

Nice to know that's not a problem. I'm going to go pick up some frozen peas/carrots at the grocery store this evening.

Anyway, his legs are really hindering his movement, so I'm hoping I can work this out. One of his feet is well-formed but very limp: the muscles just seem very weak in his legs.

Also, the box for him now seems kind of small with the big bowl of water in it.

How big a box should I use? Should it be covered?

Thanks all for the help and advice!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Again, 

Sounds very encouraging Pick up some dove or wild bird seed as well, just in case he's ready to try that. 

You could also utilize a laundry basket for his "house"....and cover at night with a towel over top or even use an oven rack. 

There could be more going on with is legs/feet than we can tell. Another thing you can try is to dissolve a regular non flavoured tums antacid in his water....for added calcium. Do this every other day for a week and see how that goes.

Good work and thanks for helping this little guy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I don't suppose you can take a picture of his legs and post it? And can you tell if you're holding him up, can he actually push outward in any direction with his actual feet? Not his legs--his feet. I would think about making him a "bowl" out of a towel so that he can be supported by his chest with his feet almost dangling. That might make him a lot more comfortable while he's "in the nest."

Pidgey


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Okay,

I'll post pics today when I get back from school (took the photos, but can't find my USB cord!) Meantime, the little guy seems to be doing well; my girlfriend told me last night that she believes birds have a sensitive pinneal (sp?) gland and are very sensitive to light, so since my apt. faces north, I put a towel over his box so he could have a nice sleep. Is this why birdkeepers generally have to block out all light in a cage?

As far as his feet go, I checked while I was taking his photos, and his left foot can grab and push a bit, but his right foot seems really weak/limp. It's got a little grab to it, but not much strength.

I also picked up some makeup sponges yesterday, so if anyone has suggestions on how to use them, I'm ready to go!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'm a bit worried about that limp leg. There's several things that it can be but they can sure act like that when a leg is broken. There are places where they can break them which it is very hard to tell if it's broke.

The spot I'm thinking of is right above the first "backward-facing" knee up from the spread of the toes. In fact, that's actually the top end of what is the ankle in us. Anyhow, it's possible to have a break just up from that joint in such a way that it'll swivel just like the joint should but you'll have to look real close while manipulating it to see if that's the case. I had one that way once.

How long has that been that way? Didn't you say that you've had this bird for almost two weeks now?

Pidgey


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*here are pics*

These are what I could take, but I'm having trouble compressing the images enough (I've not uploaded pics online much.)

It's his left leg (right as you look at him) that seems really limp, esp. the foot, so I tried to get images of that. He's sort of sitting with the weight on the outside of the stronger leg and even on his "knee" or "ankle" more than on the foot itself. But he loses his balance a lot as a result.

Pics:

(Note: I'm having a heck of a time getting these photos small enough. It's going to take a little longer to get the others up.)


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

more pics:


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Pidgey,

To address your questions, also: I checked the legs, and I can't seem to find anything out of alignment with the right leg. But it seems maybe a bit smaller/atrophied, and definitely very limp. He barely moves it. However, he doesn't make any noises or look like he's in pain when I feel around that area of the joint (the big one, the backwards knee.) And there definitely isn't any bone protruding or anything. Is it possible that there was a break and it healed poorly before I even found the guy?
I think that he's putting all of his weight on the outside of his left leg, and that's making it turn in a lot.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, it's possible to get broken and develop a "non-union" but it's difficult to say without either radiography or the old trick of wetting the skin of the leg with rubbing alcohol to render it translucent and then using a small lightsource on the backside to "candle" it. A "non-union" would be fairly rare in a bird this young but he has had a rough past. It could be more possible that he had bruising in his kidneys (the sciatic nerve runs through them in pigeons) from a fall or even a spinal injury.

Have we looked at the possibility of an avian vet for you?

Without the benefit of being able to personally examine the bird, I'd probably suggest rigging a "swingset" for him and setting it just low enough that he could exercise his leg against the ground. You can make one out of tape and wire if nothing else.

I'm going to post this much and then go fetch links to examples and edit this particular post to include them. Okay, the second one is cheap, fast and dirty, but it works. 

http://www.redroselofts.com/braveheart.htm

http://community.webshots.com/photo/417820919/417827550QPjlEZ

Come to think about it, the first one's cheap, fast and dirty, too, but I hate saying that because somebody else made it! Anyhow, the object here would be to get the legs hanging COMPLETELY free while the body is supported by the breast muscles by some soft method. You do need to take some care that the vent is clear as well (where the poop comes out). And you really need to make sure that if he wiggles out, he won't fall far or hard because he's doggone for sure gonna' try.

Pidgey


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

wow,

Okay Pidgey,

This doesn't look too tough, but I'm going to look into an avian vet, too. This is starting to look like it might be beyond my simple machinations.

I thought I was the only one who had sciatic nerve issues!

I'll look for a vet, and also work on the 'sling.'

Thanks for your help,

max


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Okay,

It's official. I scheduled a vet appointment for tomorrow, and they tell me that the check-up will cost $79 plus any additional work that the vet deems necessary. I guess this now makes me the official caretaker of this little guy. Additionally, after watching him lots, I'm now positive that he's unable to stand on his right leg, and is therefore balancing on the outside of his left--guess that's why it's turned in.

I'm wondering if there is anything I should be ready for with the vet tomorrow--I only have this guy in a cardboard box, and he's had not shots or anything, and I don't want to walk in and be shocked by some proclamation that since he was feral, they're going to have to quarantine and/or euthanize him. If this is a broken leg, is there something else I could do and then skip the appointment, or should I really go? I'm only a lowly student, and this guy could end up putting a serious dent in my finances. I'm not giving him up, just wondering what the most economical way will be to tend to his wound. Is it possible it's "just" a broken leg? He doesn't exhibit any pain or discomfort when I move his leg, but he also refuses to stand on it or use it. 

Also, wondering if anyone out there could recommend housing. I know absolutely nothing about caring for birds, so I'm wondering what I should look for/where I should go find it. 

Finally, I want to ask if it's normal that the little guy doesn't like eating unless I'm lightly holding/touching his wings. He seems to have a lot of trouble keeping his balance while he eats; would this be the only reason? I tried to teach my girlfriend to hold him so he could eat yesterday, but when she did it, he didn't seem to want to eat. Do these fellows bond that strongly with specific caregivers?

thanks again for any tips,

RF


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, as to caregiver bonding, it runs the gamut.

The vet shouldn't have a say in whether he's quarantined or euthanized--that should be your decision. That price is about twice as high as I'm used to paying for an office visit but I'm in Oklahoma and the cost of living and real estate is simply lower here. If we could be certain that this was a broken leg, there are some cheap and simple ways to fix that. But it's very difficult to explain over the internet. If you want to try to figure it out, then you need to look at the bird skeleton here:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Now, you can compare his bad leg to the good one, part by part, looking for any looseness, bumps, that kind of thing. You'll have to pay very close attention to how the joints work.

Pidgey


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Well, as to caregiver bonding, it runs the gamut.
> 
> That price is about twice as high as I'm used to paying for an office visit but I'm in Oklahoma and the cost of living and real estate is simply lower here.


Sheesh, you're not kidding. I'm totally not surprised at that price differential. I also found out through my local research that there aren't a whole lot of avian vets here in New York, which seems kind of strange to me, given how many people there are with all kinds of pets here, and given that birds are one of the best kinds of pets to have in a small NY apt.



pidgey said:


> If we could be certain that this was a broken leg, there are some cheap and simple ways to fix that. But it's very difficult to explain over the internet. If you want to try to figure it out, then you need to look at the bird skeleton here:
> 
> http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html
> 
> ...



Funny, I thought I could just do the comparison thing, but other than a huge differential in the size of the muscles and the actual functionality of the guy, I just can't locate any actual anomalies.

I guess the good news is that he seems to have adjusted to me quite well: as I type, he sits very peacefully on a fluffy towel and pecks towards my laptop, chirping in curiosity at my fingers pecking at the keys.

I'm really impressed at his energy and vigor these days, though. This is my first experience with any bird, other than a few friends' parakeets (which I found totally boring), and the personality is quite amusing.

Thanks for the info, though, Pidgey. I guess that I'm going to take this guy into the vet and basically "take him under my wing" until he's matured. After all he's been through and survived, he really deserves my care. After that point, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. I understand that pigeons couple and mate, and also that their natural group is a flock, right? So does one just go find a pigeon coop-keeper and give the pigeon to him?

Just to anticipate any sticker shock, could you tell me what I should expect at the vet's tomorrow? Shots, vaccines, meds, a cast or crutches? How much more should one expect in 'other' costs/techniques _beyond_ the base check-up fee? I know that prices vary in other places, but what are costs normally in terms of a percentage of a standard check-up?

And what's a proper house for this guys? How much space do they need to be comfortable?

Can I feed him normal "wild bird" feed from the pet stores? I was in a Petco today, and that seemed like the only thing that pertained to this guy.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Thank you for caring for this sweet pigeon.
If you do take him to the vet, make it very clear that he is your pet.
Under no circumstances, let the vet talk you into killing him.
Some of them have a "thing" about pigeons, especially in New York. 
I'm sorry I can't help in regard to what the total cost may be, but, as a fellow New Yorker (Long Island), I know it will be considerable.

Instead of bird seed, try to find a store that carries a pigeon/dove mix. I have more luck finding it in the smaller pet stores. Call around first.

In terms of comfort, your pigeon needs an area large enough to walk around, & large enough to be able to stretch his wings without hitting the sides.
My pigeon has the run of the house. He has a cage, but only enters it to eat & drink.

You will be surprised at the joy one little pigeon can bring. Good luck to both of you.

Phyll


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, the description of an atrophied leg is worrisome. You will occasionally see a "one-legged" bird but not that many. This one will likely need protracted physical therapy if he's to regain the use of that leg. It could be a nerve problem, the result of an injury or an illness. There will probably be no "quick fix" for this one. I had a bird once that didn't develop well on one entire side. It took many months before he was able to walk and fly. I had to hold his wings and encourage him to walk like helping a toddler. The simple truth is that as long as there is some motor response, however little, it's possible to strengthen it by exercise. There is a limit to what can be done that way and you may be forced to the eventual need to train him as a one-legged bird but the earlier you start, the better the results will be.

The vet may decide to radiographically examine the leg. Get a price on that before you do it and didn't I mention that you can use rubbing alcohol to render the skin somewhat translucent so that you can examine the bones in better detail? I have to tell you that if there was a break that resulted in a "non-union" then the fix for that is surgery to debride the bone ends to induce a reunion. That would not be cheap.

Otherwise, I suppose that the vet may diagnose a bacterial infection capable of causing a nerve problem. That kind of thing can happen anywhere from the brain to the leg and can be irreversible. If he thought that, he'd probably recommend euthanizing the bird because of the probability of a "low quality of life." Well, sometimes life's quality is all about how we deal with problems. I have a loft full of birds who have learned to live with many handicaps including a completely blind bird. I also have several birds with no problems at all. When I sit and look around in my loft, the ones that I find the most beautiful are the ones who are the worst off yet continue to love and live life in spite of it.

Pidgey


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Hello,

I just thought I'd update everyone on the pigeon I had. He was a rather obnoxious bird, I must say; he would never sit still, constantly looked for trouble, and never did like me.

At any rate, bandaging his legs failed. I didn't know that pigeons could stretch so much, but while I was away, he managed to stick his head down between his legs and get it stuck in the bandage. He was rather pissed at me when I cleaned him off afterward, despite the fact that he had actually managed to poop on his chin and lower beak. I tried the sponge, and it didn't work. He managed to rip it off, and when I wasn't around, chewed it up. So, I cut up an old sock and put it around him, and he had a tendency to flip on his side and fall (incidentally, after redoing the bandaging many times, I discovered that the best way was to use the remainder of the sock to cover up his head... he would stop fighting while I bandaged his legs, and I could actually get them on). So, after more iterations, the final solution was this: he had a sponge on his legs, with a bandage above the sponge to keep it in place; he had his feet attached to a wide piece of balsa wood to keep them in the correct position (I tried cardboard at first, but this failed), and it was attached by medical tape directly over his feet and masking tape covering the medical tape; the balsa wood was, in turn attached to a large piece of 4x4 such that there was no way he could move it; now, he also had the sock on so that he could not flap and fall over or bury his head again; as he was, he tended to fall or rotate about twenty degrees from where his feet pointed, so I had a couple pieces of string attached to the sock to keep him mostly upright (he could still get to his food and water) and straight. He got the sock taken off a few times a day, and his feet and legs rewrapped every few days. After a couple of weeks living in a small 80 sq ft dorm room with me, he finally was to the point where his legs were out of traction for a couple days with no signs of reverting, so I took him out to a small park-like grassy area near some food trucks where a bunch of pigeons hang out and eat all day and usually leave around 4pm (I showed up around 3.30). Not wanting to have any more to do with me, he ran ran to the other pigeons, and flew off with the rest of the flock.

Thanks for the help and advice. I'm sure professional care would have been better, but he seems to have fared well.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi...just wanted to thank you for going out of your way to help this bird. I'm sorry he didn't seem grateful for your help...you have to remember, even though YOU knew you were helping him, HE probably didn't realize all the things you were doing to him were to his benefit. It's like when you have to take your pet to the vet. Most of them hate it and are frightened. They don't know you are doing this to help them, all they know is that it's scary and sometimes painful.

It sounds like you did a really great job.

Linda


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## Twisted Pigeon (Aug 22, 2005)

Lin Hansen said:


> Hi...just wanted to thank you for going out of your way to help this bird. I'm sorry he didn't seem grateful for your help...you have to remember, even though YOU knew you were helping him, HE probably didn't realize all the things you were doing to him were to his benefit. It's like when you have to take your pet to the vet. Most of them hate it and are frightened. They don't know you are doing this to help them, all they know is that it's scary and sometimes painful.
> 
> It sounds like you did a really great job.
> 
> Linda


Thanks. I hadn't really expected him/her to be happy with me. The couple weeks of "traction" really couldn't have felt good, but at least he straightened up (literally). I was surprised he could fly well, though, as he wasn't able to when I picked him up, and he didn't get to fly while I had him.

I had planned on having to catch a bird running around in circles once the others left, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Cheers


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