# Thoughts from a young bird status member to group



## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

I recently joined this site due to a rescue. I used to raise a great breed of racing homers that my late grandfather imported from belgium in the 60s and cost even then a pretty penny. I have gotten back because of one pet bird rescued and am looking to increase my flock but I have some general musings I wanted to relay to the group.

1. What is being done with the youngsters? not birds but people. My grandfather was a breeder, never raced but his birds won for other lofts. He did though enter shows and at that time youngsters were encouraged to get involved as bird wranglers (bringing birds to judges table). At the michigan fair a person who posted a response to mine said hardly anyone was there with pigeons and young 4h kids are non existant. WHen my grandfather and the other breeders in the area knew kids were interested they determined if birds would be ok with them and helped with their lofts. Do people still do this because I wonder has sport been dying out? I went recently to look for shows and other gatherings and the numbers are not what they once were.

2. I have a thread asking about if we ever post group threads about locations. read it if you havent. What was interesting was i found out some breeders that are near me. have people ever invited others from group to look at their lofts. In the age of internet it seems we are taken from person contact. Our old loft looked like a shack compared to some here. The second and last generation we made for him was a barn convereted to a loft. He thought he had a castle but look at some of members lofts. wow. I will not reveal who but at another site similar to this i asked someone if i could come and see his loft and he was happy to do so because he takes pride in it. The reason i ask is because when my grandfather passed most breeders who knew him never even came to his funeral because they didnt know he passed. Here we see people posting but when they stop do we know what happened to them? 

I love this group but I would also love to get to know members even better

just some thoughts from a young bird 

joe


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

All good thoughts, Joe. Some people come here to post just for a question or two, others stay awhile but don't post much, others just drop out for one reason or another. 

Pigeoneering isn't what it used to be in part because the country has become more restrictive on zoning so many pigeon wanna-bes are zoned out before they ever get started because of city, county politics. Bet your bottom dollar that these convenanted communities don't allow pets beyond dogs or cats and perhaps quiet indoor birds. Believe it or not, some even restrict the kind of birds you can have (no large parrots -- too noisy). 

People are also too much into themselves. For most folks, the internet may provide more amusement and satisfaction than going and doing. 4-H isn't that just for the dorky farm kids? will it (keeping, racing, whatever pigeons) help my kid get into Harvard, Stanford, MIT? (pick your school of choice), will it look good on the resume? Atheletic, scholastic, business scholarship -- think not. Plus can it bet IM'ing, hanging at the mall, getting drunk, playing sports, whatever the activity du jour for teens is today. 
Pigeon-keeping isn't particularly a high-profile activity. It probably won't get you elected prom king or queen, so . . . .

Of course I'm being a tad sarcastic, but there's a lot more activities demanding a person's attention these days. People are scheduled to the max so something as demanding as looking after pigeons, showing, racing -- (these are real live animals and someone just can't put them in a kennel or get a self-feeder for vacation) -- might just be too much. 

I commend you for trying to make some local and regional links and create a pigeon network that is close to home. We're a bit far-flung on this forum so we may never meet our fellow posters in person, but it's nice to know that you and nature girl are in MI, there's quite a few NY and east coast folk, some in the South and Midwest, southern CA is practically a hotbed of P-T folks, AZ has a nice little group, and so on -- around the world.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*re not for college*

As an attorney I know all about zoning restrictions lol. In fact my outdoor loft had to be reformatted to what my late grandfather used to call an indoor medical loft he constructed after city official visit. Enought for two to four birds but that was it. 

I used to be in charge of the record keeping of breeding when I was in HS with birds lol. What others were reading about concerning genetics I was experiencing. That experience got me accepted to medical schools lol so maybe instead of tv kids could do some actual learning with real world implications. Ahhhh but instead of med school i became one of the attorneys that have probably eliminated most people's ability to keep birds.

joe


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

KO Loft said:


> At the michigan fair a person who posted a response to mine said hardly anyone was there with pigeons and young 4h kids are non existant. WHen my grandfather and the other breeders in the area knew kids were interested they determined if birds would be ok with them and helped with their lofts. Do people still do this because I wonder has sport been dying out? I went recently to look for shows and other gatherings and the numbers are not what they once were.


Hi Joe. If I'd "met" you on here sooner, I'd have tried to maybe meet in person at the fair, were you there on judging day? That was SAturday the 25th. There were many entries in the youth category, so there certainly are some kids involved. I noticed in most cases the youngsters' parents also had birds in the show so sort of obvious where they got it from 

I think [my memory fails me, was it Terry?]'s comments about zoning and restrictions on keeping pigeons has had a sad effect on the available exposure to the hobby. I'm sure raising pigeons was more popular and common when they were in widespread use for communication - even by the military, so maybe the last couple of generations of people may have had less exposure to pigeon keeping than ever in history. Ties in with the amount of distraction that's out there nowadays (that over-scheduling situation), I suppose.

If I had found out how much fun it is to keep and raise these birds I'd have been doing it all my life. NO one in my family has any experience with them or I'd have found out sooner! I know Onorio works with a 4-H group out by me, people like him help spread the word and that's what we need to do, be good ambassadors, if we want young people to discover and develop an interest in the hobby. Maybe they will grow up and fight those over-restrictive zoning ordinances!


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

I agree with the point that more younger people need to get involved. I didn't know pigeon racing even happened here in USA. I found a bird hit in my street by my mailbox. I seen the band and was on a quest to find out where it came from. It turned out it was my neighbors bird. I was given breeders and started my loft.  Now my grandchildren are getting intrested. Who know how many people have become, or will become intrested just because of 1 banded bird found by my mailbox.


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

What is a 4-H group?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Becca199212 said:


> What is a 4-H group?



http://www.4husa.org/

Here is a quote from the site: 

_"4-H is a community of young people across America who are learning leadership, citizenship and life skills.
4-Hers do this in a number of ways. First, they can start locally in a 4-H club. There, they can learn about any topic they would like. 4-Hers can then go on to participate in public speaking contests, 4-H fairs, conferences locally and nationally, and so much more! Some youth participate through afterschool programs or other opportunities. 
Each 4-Her defines their own 4-H experience so the possibilites are endless!"
_

It's hard to tell from that, but mostly, it is geared toward agricultural activities.


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I also think how we view pigeons as a culture makes people less likely to raise them. When I went to London one of the highlights was the pigeons in Trafalgar Square. Out of a group of over twenty I was the only one who wanted to feed them other than my husband. Everyone else was afraid of the birds or getting pooped on. It was my first experience of a pigeon landing on me and overwhelming because so many did that I could barely hold my hands up. Of course that didn't stop me from buying another cup of seed

Lately I hear of so many not wanting to have pigeons around because of disease. My mom hates that I keep starlings and pigeons because she thinks we will never be able to sell our house because they live inside. I know she thinks they will eventually make me sick too. It's really sad how misunderstood they are.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

A_Smith said:


> ...Who know how many people have become, or will become intrested just because of 1 banded bird found...


A found bird plus fanciers willing to help out a newbie made the difference for me.

Helping can be a simple as hanging around the pigeon exhibits at the fair and answering questions.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

Many people say that they have a surplus of birds. If you ever go to them and say I know someone who wants to raise birds and to a member I bet they all give that person a bird. The reason why is we were all on the other side of that exchange.
joe


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

Parents make a huge difference too, more than what they think.

My nephews ALL (so that is 7 boys) love my animals and the pigeons. One of them is VERY interested in pigeons. He loves to help care for mine, and will spend hours after school wanting to be with them.

Unfortunately, his mother and father, won't let him get anymore involved in them than that. They don't want him turning into a "bird boy".

With me it was reading and taking a chance on a "pet" pigeon last year. I don't at all regret getting Beautiful, he is one of the best things that came into my life .
-Hilly


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

My great uncle Homer Wright (awesome name eh?) raised pigeons for many decades. He passed away in 2003 and i never quite got to know him. When i moved to kansas to live with my grandmother I wanted to buy some chickens. My grandmother was against it because we live in a close neighborhood, so she suggested pigeons. I began to read about them and became enthralled. I am 18 years old and i plan on spending the rest of my life with my feathered friends at my side. I also hope that one day i can pass on the love to my children. I think if there are people like us, our hobby will always thrive. There isnt a whole lot of us


;226384 said:


> "bird boys"


 (and girls) but the few i have met and talked to are awesome people and i feel like you are all my friends.

Christopher


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I admire all of you who are out there raising and teaching others about pigeons. I just got PGWear for my pigeon and can't wait to take him outside in it. I know there will be kids and adult who see us and ask questions. I think that if people are educated they will think differently.


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

flitsnowzoom said:


> *4-H isn't that just for the dorky farm kids?* will it (keeping, racing, whatever pigeons) help my kid get into Harvard, Stanford, MIT? (pick your school of choice), *will it look good on the resume? Atheletic, scholastic, business scholarship* -- think not. Plus can it bet IM'ing, hanging at the mall, getting drunk, playing sports, whatever the activity du jour for teens is today.
> *Pigeon-keeping isn't particularly a high-profile activity*. It probably won't get you elected prom king or queen, so . . . .


4-h isn’t just for dorky kids! I happen to be the president of the Vista FFA Chapter. And I resent your statement even to the up most of sarcastic. I am not some dorky kid, even though you’re not pointing the finger, your making accusations. I happen to not fit the FFA stereo-type (I am athletic and was on the varsity track and field team along with the JV football team, I have good grades, and don’t necessarily want a job in agriculture. I don’t wear overalls, and I dislike straw hats) but if you are inferring that everyone does you are making a terrible mistake. 

And with all the degrees you can get for being in the 4-h (FFA) program, it does look good on your college application, resume, and applying for scholarships (How do you think I got my job? Do you think they hired me because I was just like every other kid that walked in the door?). As of now I have my greenhand, chapter, proficiency, and state degree. It took me 3 years, and by the end of next year I will have my American degree. The Highest rank in which you can have, only 4% of the US ever achieves this. Now you mean to say that doesn’t look good?

And as far as high profile. A lot of things in the world aren’t high profile to everyone; some one could look at raising rats as low profile, where as some one who hated dogs could look at raising dogs as low profile. The great thing about this world is the numerous options we have. Nothing to everyone is going to be high profile, they’re hobbies. Things that we do for leisure, and If we can't accept how others feel about our decisions in our lives, how are we to make decisions in are own lives with out saying they wont like me if I did that so I guess ill do this. We shouldn’t mold our selves based on the view of others.

Now that I'm over my tangent, I think that the pigeon numbers are dwindling because of lack of public advisement and lack of the need in our economy. I would have never gotten into pigeons if it went for my Ag class. Getting out there and letting people know about pigeons is one way to boost the numbers.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Sorry, Michael*

Oh, Michael, I'm sorry you took it that way. What I wrote is just what I hear from so many of my peers and their children in the big city. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. If you want, I will delete my post.

I just get so tired of city folk moving into the country or non-zoned suburban areas and forcing their conformity on all of us. I chose to live where I could have farm animals (in moderation) but over the past several years, I've seen the city fathers (and mothers) become too concerned about the image and not about the people that live here. 

I grew up in farm and ranch country and I know the value of 4-H. Our high school had a huge FFA group and got to travel all around the state. I BEGGED my parents to let me join but they couldn't afford anything at that time so I never could. You know it's tough when you eat beans and cornbread most nights in the week and when your dad has to go in person to collect $5 and $10 dollar debts from people that owe on the gas they pumped from his station. 

Please accept my apologies -- I'll do my best not to use sarcasm to make a point in the future.


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

Nor do I intend in making you feel uncomfortable posting here. I was simply informing you. 

I do not need you to delet your post as I am not affended. I simply thought you should know, and now were all informed. I sure many others think the same but for those who care to read my post will know its not something to be taken lightly and might possible keep others from stating the same. Don't be sorry either, as you stated your thoughts. I can live with them as I accept you as I do every one as people of differances, we are not all the same which makes us all unique and I incourage every one to be who they are. By not posting how you want to, you alter your self to stray from affending me. So please continue to post and be your self, this place was made for all of us we just have to live and work with each other. (I also tend to be voicerous so I am sorry if that made you feel uncomfortable, it is in no way my intentions.)


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks, Michael. I didn't pause to think about how the words would read if pulled out of context. I appreciate your honesty and sincerity.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI JOE,This just might help you meet some of the members of our group.Today the LAPC had a young bird show at which there were about 5 of us in the area that where there.For about a month it was posted that we would be at this show. Now this is in Southern California and i know that you are in Michagan so find a pigeon show post it here and let people that live in your area know that you will be there and would like to meet them.The show would be a good place to meet local members.We here meet at this young bird show and in NOVEMBER we meet at the Pageant of Pigeons,so find a show in your area and post it here and let members in your area meet at your local show. ,GEORGE


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> I just get so tired of city folk moving into the country or non-zoned suburban areas and forcing their conformity on all of us. I chose to live where I could have farm animals (in moderation) but over the past several years, I've seen the city fathers (and mothers) become too concerned about the image and not about the people that live here.


Amen, sister...! (er..brother?  ) 

Congratulations on your achievements in 4H, Michael.  I was a 'city kid' and trust me, where I grew up, no one HEARD of 4H. I wish I had. I'd have been involved (and everyone else would have thought me a dork!)


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

TheSnipes said:


> Congradulations on your achievements in 4H, Michael.  I was a 'city kid' and trust me, where I grew up, no one HEARD of 4H. I wish I had. I'd have been involved (and everyone else would have thought me a *dork*!)


Thank you. I owe it all to my peers and the judges that watched us 6 young adult go up and do a speech, then answer random questions to the best of there ability. 

They slated me for president, I was running for sentniel. Then I had to give another speech during the elections. Which voted me President. If the person I was running against got president then I would be vice, But how active I was and all the new kids I helped, is what made me president. You wont get anywhere with out good hard honest work.

And as for dorks I assure you in the eyes of many you would be a role model now to which you hold higher you ego or your hobbies would be your decision, I dont think of any one as a dork just different, so if everyone though that way we would be much better off.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Wow! Michael, your progress in 4H is remarkable - congratulations! I really appreciate your synopsis of the 4H dregrees. Thanks!


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