# Coppertone



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

This is the pigeon I mentioned in Margaret's Ember Gene thread.

He was a regular member of our backyard buddies flock a few years back.
We get a lot of 'fancy' feathered ferals but none with such unique coloring as this one. 

*Coppertone*


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I often wonder how far down the line this coloring went.

On a couple of occasions this little one accompanied Coppertone.
He was adorable.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Gorgeous! They look a bit like those dark almonds..the ones that go gradually blacker and blacker I mean. How pretty...!


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

That is beautiful coloring. Thank you for posting it. Wow!

Margaret


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

As mentioned in the Ember thread, these Coppertones are the perfect Thanksgiving time of the year pijies!! Their coloring so reminds me of the Fall color changes.

Their coloring was so unique, even among other beautiful ferals. Wish they would return...

Beautiful pictures, Cindy! Hadn't seen some of them!

Shi


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks, Snipes & Margaret. 



mr squeaks said:


> As mentioned in the Ember thread, these Coppertones are the perfect Thanksgiving time of the year pijies!! Their coloring so reminds me of the Fall color changes.
> 
> * *Their coloring was so unique, even among other beautiful ferals*.
> 
> ...


* They were definitely in a league of their own. 

** It sure would be fun to see them again.

*** Thanks, Shi. 
I thought you had seen them.  Well, you have now.  

Cindy


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I wonder whether some other fancier in the area decided they coveted these bird's genes?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cindy, those birds are stunning. What beautiful colors and markings.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That color is just stunning and the markings just remind me of a mosaic. Great name too!

THANK YOU for sharing!!!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*First Coppertone is realy a very beautyful bird. Now if he was a young bird when those pictures were taken, and if is an Ember and I think he may have been. If you read the info given on the Huntley site you will see that the young Embers start out with a strong Ember color when they molt that becomes more bluish in color.The second picture from the back of the bird shows us a blue tail This leads me to believe that Coppertone was an ember and a young one,if this is true.he may still be around but has become more bluish,study the group real close if this the case he still will retain some of the ember pay close attenchion to the wings the ember will still be in the primary flight feathers. I would also point out that there are at least 3 color modifiers that mask blue that i know of RECESSIVE RED,EMBER,and INDIGO.There may be more maybe FRANK or BILL know. Now after having said all that Coppertone could be some type of Bronze. The only way that we can be sure is by test breeding him/her. * ..GEORGE


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks, Maggie & Treesa. 



george simon said:


> *First Coppertone is realy a very beautyful bird. Now if he was a young bird when those pictures were taken, and if is an Ember and I think he may have been. If you read the info given on the Huntley site you will see that the young Embers start out with a strong Ember color when they molt that becomes more bluish in color.The second picture from the back of the bird shows us a blue tail This leads me to believe that Coppertone was an ember and a young one,if this is true.he may still be around but has become more bluish,study the group real close if this the case he still will retain some of the ember pay close attenchion to the wings the ember will still be in the primary flight feathers. I would also point out that there are at least 3 color modifiers that mask blue that i know of RECESSIVE RED,EMBER,and INDIGO.There may be more maybe FRANK or BILL know. Now after having said all that Coppertone could be some type of Bronze. The only way that we can be sure is by test breeding him/her. * ..GEORGE


Appreciate the info, George. 

I have no idea how old the adult (first three photos) was or the youngster. There was definitely an age difference. I was thinking the youngster was probably the offspring of Coppertone.

They haven't been around for quite some time. 
The pictures were taken in 2004. 

I really enjoyed having the opportunity of _'meeting' _them.

Cindy


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Cindy,

Love the coloring on these birds.....

While I like all the variations that we can see, I have to admit that I am attracted to the more unusual colors and patterns.

I don't think I've ever seen any birds around here with that coloring so thanks for sharing these...

Linda


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Lin Hansen said:


> Cindy,
> 
> Love the coloring on these birds.....
> 
> ...


Coppertone & his _'little buddy'_ are the only ones I've ever seen. 

I often wonder how they're doing. 

Cindy


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

That is one beautiful pigeon!


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

*Brander bronze, not ember*

From a quick look, he appears to be a Brander bronze bird, not ember. Brander bronze birds have dark flights and tail. In show pigeons, you can find branders in Branders, which are one of the Danish Tumbler colors (whence the name of the mutation); Somewhat unusual in ferals, but I've learned not to underestimate anything that can pop out of them. Heck, in Austria they've recognized a few new mutations in ferals within the past decade.

*I've found a Brander picture of the Danish Tumber at the Danish Tumbler site (in Danish) at: http://go.to/Danishtumbler/ Once there, click first on the link on the mid left that takes you to the Homepage DRF. Then Go to the Galleri link on the left. THEN click on Danske tumlinger (Danish Tumbler) to get you to the pictures. when you get there look for the bird on the bottom right called: Mørk Brandet 1,0 (the 1,0 convention is the European one for cock; a hen would be 0,1) *

You'll see that this bird is almost identical in color to your feral, though obviously better bred and fed. (now having said all that, I wish I could have gotten my hands on the little guy to do some testing in a loft just on the off chance he's something unknown - wouldn't be the first feral to add his mutation to the show bird pool -- heck look at "milky" among others.)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I do not believe it is just the feral. As many domistcated birds end up getting turned loose. Escaping and lost. Those birds then cross to the feral breeding producing known and other color facters into the feral population. And color is the mask to any breed. Easyer for show type to work and set color off Any known breed. But not as easy for race birds. Sure you get color but then you have to keep race quality going as you set and develop the color line. So It is 2 jobs at the same time.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

bluecheck said:


> I've found a Brander picture of the Danish Tumber at the Danish Tumbler site (in Danish) at: http://go.to/Danishtumbler/ Once there, click first on the link on the mid left that takes you to the Homepage DRF.
> 
> Then *Go to the Galleri link on the left when you get there and look for the bird on the bottom right called: Mørk Brandet 1,0*
> 
> You'll see that this bird is almost identical in color to your feral, though obviously better bred and fed. (now having said all that, I wish I could have gotten my hands on the little guy to do some testing in a loft just on the off chance he's something unknown - wouldn't be the first feral to add his mutation to the show bird pool -- heck look at "milky" among others.)


I went to the Galleri, but found no birds nor any reference to _Mork Brandet 1,0._


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Oops, forgot one thing - once you're in the Galleri, click on Danske tumlinger (Danish Tumbler) to get you to the pictures.

(So others coming here don't have to go back thru the whole thread, here's the info all in one spot to get to the Brander pic)

*I've found a Brander picture of the Danish Tumber at the Danish Tumbler site (in Danish) at: http://go.to/Danishtumbler/ Once there, click first on the link on the mid left that takes you to the Homepage DRF. Then Go to the Galleri link on the left. THEN click on Danske tumlinger (Danish Tumbler) to get you to the pictures. when you get there look for the bird on the bottom right called: Mørk Brandet 1,0 (the 1,0 convention is the European one for cock; a hen would be 0,1) *


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I agree with Brander bronze*

That's what it looks like to me. It is probably the most intense of all bronzes and bronze is a mostly dominant gene, if that makes any sense. It is easily passed on from one bird and will weaken somewhat over each succussive generation of outcross.

The bird also has a unique or foreign look to it that is unlike most ferals. Pigeons tend to have varying features depending on what part of the world they originated from. These can simply be attributed to breed characteristics in most cases as most have the common denominator of being the same species (C Livia) just bred up in different forms. In What part of the world were these birds sighted? Sorry, if I missed that.

All that said, ember would still be a possibilty but I'd consider it to be pretty unlikely, mostly due to the intensity of color in two separate birds, not to mention the rarity of ember.

The first photo looks as if the bird is just coming into adult plumage and looks to be going more toward black. Many bronzes will do this, especially when they are combined with black or blue. Combine with ash red or rec. red and they are much more likely to keep the intense bronze.

Bronze is somewhat of a mystery, at least to me and I've had all of them, except brander.

Bill


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## Dutchwitschild (Feb 7, 2009)

You wanted a picture of a brander-bronze breed. Here is one. The Dutch Highflier in the color (chimney sweeper) The color is like that of a Showtippler. I have this breed since 1972.





​


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

re lee said:


> I do not believe it is just the feral. As many domistcated birds end up getting turned loose. Escaping and lost. Those birds then cross to the feral breeding producing known and other color facters into the feral population. And color is the mask to any breed. Easyer for show type to work and set color off Any known breed. But not as easy for race birds. Sure you get color but then you have to keep race quality going as you set and develop the color line. So It is 2 jobs at the same time.


You are absolutely right. Brander Bronze is a fairly common coloring in some families of tipplers, and that would be my guess as to what breed this bird is. Why the heck people don't band their birds is beyond me!


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