# Found a Pidgeon with a problem



## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
I was on this list briefly earlier in the year. I had found a sick pidgeon and with your help was able to nurse him back to health and release him. Now I need your help again.
I found a pidgeon this afternoon. He was in a doorway of a building. SOmeone said he had been there all night. He was eating bread and there was a pile of poop there. He appears to have something like either a yucky looking growth by the base of his tail. He cant fly but can walk. I dont think its a wound - certainly not an open wound but the skin is visible - there are no feathers there. 
I have in a cage in my house right now with food and water. My vet said I could leave him there and someone could look at him later but I didnt want to do that becasue they were so backed up this afternoon and I didnt know who would look at him. Plus he said they had alot of sick and dying pidgeons and they sent a test out on one and it had Newcastles disease. So if they have other birds with Newcastles, Im afraind if this one goes into the same room he may get it. My vet isnt an avian vet but he did help me with the previous pidgeon - gave him a baytril injection and some baytril drops to gove at home.
THis bird appears to be eating ok.
My options are - take him to a bird refuge near me called the raptor trust. They deal mostly with raptors but once did splint a pidgeon leg for me. BUt I think it depends maybe on who you see. ALot of people, even bird people, dont care about pidgeons. BUt I could at least see what they recommend. Tomorrow is Sunday so I would not be able to see my vet or an avian vet. Monday I absolutely have to be at work and its new years eve so no vets will be working.
THere is an avian vet near me in Nutley. I just spoke to someone in Petsmart who sees someone in Madison (dont know if hes avian). ANyone recomend an avian vet in NJ? I think there is also a Dr McKinley but he is a little farther away.
ANyway, what do you think? Does this sound like some kind of tumor? I dont want to bring him somewhere and have someone recomend euthanasia without trying something to help him.
THanks,
DonnaMae
In the meantime, he is warm here (Im in northern NJ and its snowing/sleeting right now).


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Oh poor pigeon, he is so lucky you rescued him. No one on PT will recommend euthanasia.
Any vet to go to it's good. But not all vets are experienced with wild pigeons. I hope Charis will come to give you a good avian vet in NJ.
Meanwhile we need a pic of the lump. You can trim the feathers around the lump.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
I have three dishes for him - one is like a general mix (yes, I found a cockatiel a month ago), one is a formulated fruit pellet thing and I just added some peas. (My Cassidy from last February ate peas and corn). He was definately eating bread on the street that someone had left him - the same person who said he was there all night. His seed dish was all disturbed so I dont know whether he was eating or just messing it up. Now hes in the box inside his cage. I guess its cozier in the box.
I will try to get some pics later.
As I recall from Cassidy, they dont seem to eat when it gets dark out, even if a light is on??
THanks for your reply. I fell not so alone. Its hard to know what to do. Maybe I should have left him for my vet to look at later. BUt its too late for that. I can always do Raptor Trust tomorrow.
DonnaMae


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

You can start *hand feeding* her defrosted peas, since you don't know if she really ate. Bread she ate last night is not nutritious. Peas are high in proteins. Pop them into the back of her beak 30-50 peas, until the crop fills up. Let us know if you know hoe to do it. There are pre written instructions.

This is the first aid . It would be good to keep her on a heating pad on low. Also do not forget leaving some water in a shallow bowl.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html

Does she poops? How is the poop? I was wondering that she may have a blockage. But you didn't describe the lump into details. Have you washed her vent and trim the feathers around and on the lump? We really needs pics.
Pigeons mixed seed is the best. 

I wouldn't give the pigeon to any Trust, Centre unless i know for sure the future of the pigeon. Once you gave the pigeon it's not yours anymore and they can take decisions (like euthanasia) on their own without consulting with you.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...a picture would be helpful.I'm wondering if the lump is a prolapse or possibly canker.
If it's a prolapse, the pigeon will need a couple of stitches but it should be able to wait until a vet is available.
Feeding defrosted pea is a good idea.
Do you happen to have any of the baytril left from the other bird?
Also, do you have the pigeon on a heating pad?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Im trying to figure out how to attach the pictures


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

here is a picture of the pigeon's wound. can you open this?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

*let's try that again...*


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

One more thing - that wound location is on the top side. I dont think its anything rectal. BUt maybe I should check again. If it was rectal, there would be poop on it? Initially, he is very squirmy when I try to pick him up and it was difficult to get the pics but let me examine this better.
Does his neck look fat?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

OK, I checked the would again. The main part is to the left of where the tail feathers attach, maybe a little above. But it extends and I cant really tell if it extends underneath.
You mentioned prolapse. Is that treatable and how critical?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Dima/Charis,
Can you offer some advice as to what to do? SHould I call Raptor Trust and ask if they would examine him? Again, someone mentioned prolapse - I was trying to find a sticky thread on that but didnt. Is it treatable and is it an emergency? Neither of the Avian vets around me (one is actually not even that close) are in the list you have. You just have on in Cherry Hill for NJ and that is just too far. Its scary becasue I have learned over the years with my small mammals, its not so much going to the vets as it is which vet you go to. Im really afraid for him. I was supposed to go to work for a short time today but I am too upset so I cancelled. (not good)
I would like to have him at least checked out, esp if he is getting an infection he may need antiobiotics.
If I dont hear from you soon, I will try Raptor Trust but I will NOT leave him.
Ill also do a general google search on prolapse to see if anything helps me there.
THanks,
DonnaMae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's not a prolapse. Looks like it could be a problem with its preen gland? Hard to tell just where it is on the bird. But that what it looks like to me. That or he got bitten or cut by another animal maybe?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you have any meds left over from the other bird?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Again,
Ok, this is the status. I called Raptor Trust and they told me (two people) in a very sweetly professional way that I would have to leave the pigeon with them becasue it is in his best interests to be rehabbed by them. I am leery of that. Strange that once several years ago they did a leg splint for me and let me keep the bird. I guess that is was unofficial and again everything depends on who is staffing at the moment.
So it looks like my options are to try one of the two avian vets tomorrow - Louis Crupi in Nutley NJ of James McKinley in Hillsborough. (Actually Hillsborough isnt all that far and I have a friend who has a cockatiel who swears by McKinley). HOpefully they do pigeons. Or my regular vet who is on "emergency only" for tomorrow and may also want to keep the bird. Plus Im not sure how much he does with birds, if this is prolapse. (I seem to have that ingrained in me now)
Altho I think I just received a msg saying it doesnt look like prolapse. Let me check that one out
Thanks all so much. As you can see, I am really obsessing on this


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't leave him anywhere. Doesn't look to be all that bad. Can be treated with antibiotics.
They haven't even seen him and they are saying he would be better off left there. THat's crazy. 

Can you answer the question of DO YOU HAVE ANY MEDS LEFT FROM THE LAST PIGEON?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hey Jay3!!!
I remember you from the spring when you helped me. 
No, there are no meds left over from last time. I had discarded them. What about any topical OTC for humans. Or is that bad becasue he would lick it?
DOnna Mae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Jay3,
Sorry we seem to be crossing paths here.... I discarded the baytril because it was a liquid mixed up .
I have antibiotic pills here if you wanted to mix something up. THis is the stash - amoxicillin 50 mg tabs; metronidazole 65 mg capsules; zeniquen 25 mg tabs and maybe some clavimox 62.5 mg tabs (very light sensitive)
I might be able to pick some up at my regular vet tomorrow.
DonnaMae

I feel somewhat reassured with your assessment.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree that it looks like an infected preen gland or infected feather and it isn't critical.
It's good you have the 50mg amoxicillin. You can give the pigeon 1/4 of a tablet 2 times a day for 10 days.[ general dose without knowing the exact weight]
If you are going to take the bird to the vet, go with the one that helped you before and it can wait. If you go to another vet, tell them the pigeon is your *pet pigeon*.
Always hold on to medications rather than discarding them. Most are good for long after the expiration dates. It's a good idea to ask for medications in pill form rather than suspensions.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Charis,
THanks for the amoxi advice. SHould I just put the 1/4 tab in a pea and push down his throat?

I always keep pills that have been dispensed for the cats which is why I always have a stash on hand. But the baytril drops were mixed with a liquid vitamin and some other solution and I was dosing directly from the dropper bottle into his mouth. It was a small bottle to begin with.
Its just so fretful when one isnt sure of what the "right" thing to do is. My gut was telling me not to go to the Trust altho' they had done a dynamite job with the splint several years ago. Im glad you'all agree NOT to leave him. Thats my gut also.
I will monitor the eating, activity, start the 1/4 amoxi, and try to get someone to see him tomorrow.
Really, thank you all so much. On behalf of Speckles, I thank you.
Donna Mae


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Don't put it in a pea. Just put the pill at the back of the mouth, over the throat and the bird will swallow it.
The pigeon is beautiful.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

DonnaMae said:


> View attachment 26236
> 
> 
> 
> Very good looking grizzled pigeon. I am glad you are taking care of it.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

It is a beautiful bird! Thank you for helping it!

It's droppings look terrible though-- do they have a smell to them?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Minimonkey,
I havent really noticed a smell but I am going to be changing papers again now so I will give a close sniff and will let you know.
DonnaMae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
I dont think there is any discernable odor to the droppings.
Not sure if its my wishful thinking, but maybe he's a little spunkier? Hes up on the third floor (which I guess will start to be known as "the sick bird room") and when I enter his room he immediately starts moving. I htink he hears me walking up the stairs. He is very spunky (vocal too) and I have to catch him in the cage with two hands and I have to make a towel burrito out of him to give him his pill. I did it an instructed - just the plain 1/4 pill. But then I followed it with two peas.
THank you all for your invaluable assistance and encouragement.
(What was I thinking when I kept spelling - pidgeon-?? Maybe Walter?? Ha ha.)
Donna Mae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry..........I was out shoveling snow. We had like 10 to 12 inches in the front drive, and then there is shoveling to the loft and aviary, and all the paths to the feeders. Can't tell you what fun we had around here today! NOT! Glad Charis was able to get in here, and glad everything seems under control. Let us know how it goes with him. He is a very pretty little guy.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Yow! Where are you located?
You need some hot chocolate.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I love hot chocolate. I'm in Massachusetts. My backyard was about 8 inches, but the front, much deeper, as the wind always blows this way. I HATE WINTER! Is it almost spring time yet? Autumn here is beautiful though. LOL.


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

That sounds so cold.I'm sure your pigeons are all warm in their nest.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Their loft is 50 degrees and they're all warm and snuggly. They pack their nest boxes with lots of straw and pine needles.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Looks to be a infected prenal gland, was it red like that when you got him
Or we're you trying to remove it?


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Ooops didn't see page 2
You all of course have it handled


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

1. Jay3- your birds sound so.cozy
2.
I notice that Speckles likes to sleep/roost under the flap of the box in the cage. Its almost like an eave.
3
He was pretty perky this am when i administered the amoxi
4. Can anyone in NJ comment on the avian vets Mc Kinley and/or Crupi? I have a FAX into my regular vet
Donna Mae
happy new year to all and their critters


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Not much input here......just kudos on your efforts from another NJ person! Very pretty bird! Is he/she eating well? Assuming no bigger problems, I bet the antibiotic you are giving helps........does seem like that area is sore though I wonder what caused it too........the ideas mentioned above seem plausible. It was missing all the feathers in that area when you found himher? I have not used any of those or other avian vets for my pigeons. Unfortunately you may find as good or better advise on this forum than MANY vets. Of couse a good avian vet should know better. Good luck with Speckles!


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi woodnative
Do you ever use an avian vet? If so who? Can you reply directly to my email- 
[email protected]
because it is easier with the back and forth. Im at work typing on my phone.argh
Donnamae
(Agree the great advice here but i need a vet for procedures i cant do)
Where in nj r u?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi All
Well i have given up on an avian vet. I didn't understand the importance ( at first i forgot anyway) of saying that Speckles is my pet. The two avian vets i contacted said it was Against law to treat a wild animal and i had to go to a rehabber. So i said- well what if i say he is my pet? Thinking that would
Cover him legally if that was wh at he was concerned about. So he said- well do you have papers for him?
Such garbage.
I guess i have alot to learn. 
I ended up telling him i thought his hippocratic oath would dictate otherwise. (In a polite way ofcourse)
I lost my faith in the avian vets.
Hopefully a non Avian vet can help if needed. In the meantime if there is improvement i will just keep up the meds
I will keep you all posted.
Sheesh
Happy new year
Donnamae


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Funny......pigeons are not really "wild animals" anyway. Well, they may be wild.....but only in a feral way............much like a feral cat is "wild" or packs of wild dogs are "wild".


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

I know. For my own knowledge I am going to do some googling on this. It seems a stretch altho' with two avian vets saying the same thing, I tend to think at least they sincerely believe it.
Speckles definately seems a little more rambunctious. He is harder to catch in the cage. But he stays pretty much in the same spot all day. I mean, he does eat (ate alot today) but all the poop is in one area. Under the flap of the box where he ikes to be.
When I was picking him up and tranferring him to the towel, it looks like his back - between the wings - is bare of feathers. I didnt notice it before but I dont see alot of feathers in the cage so I think if he was losing them there would be feathers strewn about?
My appt for him is Wed evening. Damn I hate holidays. THey get in the way.
DonnaMae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

DonnaMae, when last checked this guy did see pigeons. Just say it has been your pet for a while. Let us know how it goes.

Dr. David Kupersmith | Animal & Bird Health Care Center & Hospital
www.animalandbirdvet.com/hospital...doctor/dr-david-kupersmith/
Dr. David Kupersmith is a 1989 graduate of the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota and joined the Animal & Bird Health Care Center. ... 1785 Springdale Road; Cherry Hill, New Jersey 08003; *phone: 856.751.2122 ...*


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi
Thanks for the vet advice but Cherry Hill is a bit too far. I do have the appt with my regular vet tomorrow evening and will see how that goes.
But I fear that little Speckles may be losing feathers. Is it possible I just didn't notice it before and his wings were not spread to view the bald patch? I will be sending another pic in awhile
Donnamae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Not sure if this was attached properly. THis shows the bald spot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That shot is from underneath, isn't it. I thought the other shot was from above? Also looks like another cut there to the side? I'd have him on antibiotics. He may have been attacked by something.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

That looks like from above (?). Is he losing more feathers or is that how he was? Looks like most of the tail is missing too (?)


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi
The shot is from above. I think the tail is about the same but its the back im worried about 
Offhand do you know of any diseases that would cause this?::.? Also shouldn't i see feathers on the floor? Could be an allergic reaction to the amoxi? This has me very worried
Donnamae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you just didn't notice it before. Obviously if they were coming out now, you would see them around. If the infection or irritation has been going on for a while he could have pulled some feathers in fussing with it.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Jay3 (who are 1 and 2)?
Yes i hope so.
He certainly is a peppy little one., y'all send us good vibes, for out vet appt tomorrow!
Donna Mae:


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Looks like he prob escaped a attack 
I've also got birds like that who have been hit by a car, kinda like road rash only they lose mostly feathers rather than skin luckily for them
Don't think it's any kind of disease
I would treat it as an injury
Feathers will regrow


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Altgirl35
Thanks
Donnamae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think he may have possibly escaped an attack also, but in that case, he should be getting antibiotics.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

DonnaMae said:


> Hi Jay3 (who are 1 and 2)?
> Yes i hope so.
> He certainly is a peppy little one., y'all send us good vibes, for out vet appt tomorrow!
> Donna Mae:


1 and 2?..............


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

How is your pigeon? Any updates?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi All
Sorry to have been remiss with my update
The final assessment was he thought Speckles may have been injured . First he was saying "he's fine" but later acknowledged that the area around the tail had a problem. The t feathers are missing on that side (left). He said that naked bump are backside and X rectum. its not so red Anymore so i showed him the pic so he could see what first looked like, 
They? tried to see if he would fly. He stretches his wings bug does not take flight. His right wing is missing feathers. Bug he says they are going to grow back in. So i am keeping him on the amoxi and hopefully we will have a recovery. Then i will have to acclimate him to the cold before. release or keep him til may
Donnamae


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Keep him until spring time


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Dima
THat does seem like the safest thing but I feel bad that he is so isolated up there on the 3rd floor . And Hes confined in a large cage - not as large as some of you have Im sure - but not really big enough to fly in. So Im afraid unless I do something sooner rather than later, he is going to lose muscle mass? On the positive side, last night when I went to reach for him to give him the amoxi, he went airborne for a few seconds. So I think he may be healing. That was the first time he did that. 
The room he is in is a haphazard storage room. After I released Cinder last spring - who was loose the whole time in the room- we spent hours and hours cleaning up. To minimize the damage I would have to organize the storage - easier said than done; cover everything with newspapers. 
Maybe its a good opportunity to start throwing things out.
How do you guys set up your bird rooms?
DonnaMae


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

He will be fine in the small cage for a period........it may not be the most ideal, but it can work. People keep breeder pairs and new birds in small spaces.


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

thats so right. unfortunately pigeons and doves are either lunch or pests for some humans. i tried saving this white wing dove that i came across while i was going tos chool one day. i was so shocked to see that it had a hole and the hole resembled a gun shot bullet and didnt realised untill i gave it a warm bath and lifed the wing. had maggots n the smell was stong like rought meat. back then didnt know that birds can handle certain meds. i just cleaned it with soap n soaked a q tip with alcholof for infections but i think it must of been the bullet that killed it because the it was a deep hole and didnt know how to properly handle the doove. then next day i found another one but that one was paralazed, completely on her back. neck twisted, wings flippin n leggs twisted. to me it looked like it got hit by car because a lot of soldiers drive too fast n many love going dove hunting. ....n the end both died and i felt so miserale for like a week. i dont know how to show others that animals need our help because animals help us detect danger ahead of time and if we dont help them soon they will disappear then the rest of us will too lil by lil . creepy reply. i know but real n realistic


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

btw im in texas now for college. constantly on the look out to save birds because i usually c black crackle birds which will attack doves and sparrows when they crave protein, with broken wings. those r dangerous to andle because i tried saving a baby n suddenly lots of black crackles were trying to attack me like the movie BIRDS but those were black crows n these are smaller yet super agressive. i also see pigeons/doves with broken wings once n awhile n normally try to trap them but theres always people gettin in the way thinkin im weird or crazy trying to rescue birds in town...i also see many homeless dogs, homeless cats, even couple parrokkeets have scaped.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Im sorry for the sadness you had to endure. At least you tried and perhaps next time if you contact this list, someone can help you. They have helped me twice


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