# Found a juvenile pigeon



## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Hi folks this is my first post. I found a juvenile pigeon standing on the sidewalk next to a building where a lot of pigeons nest. It appears to have no broken bones, and nearly fully developed plumage. But it is just too young to fly yet. I couldn't let it just sit there on the sidewalk and come to an early end so I just picked it up like a small chicken and brought it home. I've built a 2' square box with food and water, fresh paper every day and a small cardboard box inside the cage to provide shelter. It had a lot of mites when I picked it up. They were running all over the inside of the box that I brought it home in. I don't really have much experience in caring for pigeons
My hope was to feed it long enough to see it fly away on it's own, but I think that plan is going to backfire and I will have a pet to care for. It seems like a very easy job to domesticate this bird. After only four days it's comfortable with my presence. I'll take care of this little guy if I have to, but I would prefer it to mingle with it's own kind and would love to find someone who has other pigeons and wouldn't mind one more.
I've been feeding it fresh water twice daily in a cereal bowl, Wild Dove seed for food. And the occational bits of broken bread ends. For grit I have some crushed gravel that varies in size from fine dust all the way up to 1/4 inch or more. And every size in between so it can choose what it wants.
It's stool appears to be mostly water which concerns me, but I have no idea what to do about it.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

I forgot to mention that I live in Seattle, WA. If anyone's interested in this bird I would be glad to drive it to your location or meet you halfway as long as I can do it all in one day.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for caring for this little pigeon.
We might have members nearby, so hang in there, hopefully someone will see your post.

Could you post a ic of the bird so we can determine his age? He might be too young to eat and that could be a reason for the watery droppings. 
Baby pigeons learn to drink before they can eat, so make sure the little guy is getting enough food.
You can feed him also frozen thawed corn and peas, if you have to give him that one by one it is easier than giving him seeds.

Please keep us posted on this little one.
Thank you

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hello Kwikkordead, yes many thanks for saving this little ones life form harms way. While we wait for more replies to your dilemma, in case you have not already done so, just go to the two threads just above this one you posted for some very important pigeon care tips. You have had this pigeon for 4 days now, does he still have a mite problem?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I was outside tending to my wild life and I was thinking that the mite problem is probably there .Outside is where I do my most "daydreaming" and thinking best!  

Go to your local Garden Center, and purchase Sevin dust. Apply it to the body area ,under the wings and back side of it but avoid his head area, and *insure* that you avoid the eyes and nostril/beak area.Treat the living area as well.Treat the bird outside or an room that is ventilated.That will take care of the critter problem.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

vdog505 said:


> I was outside tending to my wild life and I was thinking that the mite problem is probably there .Outside is where I do my most "daydreaming" and thinking best!
> 
> Go to your local Garden Center, and purchase Sevin dust. Apply it to the body area and back side of it but avoid his head area, and insure that you avoid the eyes and nostril/beak area. Do this either outside or an room that is ventilated.That will take care of the critter problem.


Thanks I'll take care of that tonight. Including the peas and corn idea. I have seen it drink water so it can do that, but I am thinking that it's just not old enough for adult feed yet.
It does not have the white crown even starting to develope yet, has almost full adult plumage with a few of the little baby hairlike feather left on the back of it's neck and shoulders. I'll post a picture tomorrow, family plans don't allow for the time to do so tonight. The picture that I have is on the home computer and I am now at work.
Another thing, I have it in my back yard where it gets pretty warm during the day. I put a piece of plywood on top of the cage to shade it, is that right or do they like a lot of sun?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Sunshine is very important to pigeons and they just love to baste in it. I provide a half cover on top of mine so that he has an option to choose.I recommend you do provide a partial cover for relief.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Ok I went home for a minute and moved the plywood so that it has a choice of sun or shade and fed it some peas. Here's the picture of it.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Thank you for the tip on debugging the bird NumberNine. I'll get to that this weekend. Another priority that I have besides finding a more suitable home for it is to build a bigger place for it to live. Right now it's a hastily constructed 2x2x2 cube box frame with hardware cloth as the cage. You can see it in the picture. It's mostly for it's own protection as we have lot's of crows, and several raccons in the neighborhood. But I really don't want to have to go through all that as I am not really in love with it, but I can't just let it die either. And the thought of imprisoning the poor bird in that tiny cage is unacceptable. My greatest wish for this bird is to fly free, or at the very least be with other members of it's own kind. Do birds in this sort of situation grow up and fly off? Or do they just get "domesticated" and stick around? Sorry about all the questions. 
Oh and the droppings are nearly black mixed in with a lot of watery substance.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for all the help NumberNine.
Any takers on this pigeon? I don't have enough time in the day to properly care for it and give it the attention that it needs to be healthy mentally. I can feed and protect it with a cage, but for the most part it's going to be ignored in the back yard while I'm off at work for 10-12 hours daily. I'll drive it into the next state if needed.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your care and concern of this youngster. I understand how you feel.

What a cute youngster. From the picture he looks to be about 24 days old.

Can you give him just a few more weeks, maybe even 3 to grow up and go out on his own? He will need to practice his flying skills daily, in an enclosed area, if that is possible.

If not, why don't you post a thread in the adoption section and explain the situation, and see if you can find someone in your area who can care for him until he is full grown and flying solo.

Treesa


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Thank you for your care and concern of this youngster. I understand how you feel.
> 
> What a cute youngster. From the picture he looks to be about 24 days old.
> 
> ...


 I can do that easily. It's good to know that it's not real dependant on interaction to stay in good spirits.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Since the little guy is drinking already it won't be long before he will be eating on his own. You should leave a deep spill proof dish of seed, as well as water, out for him while you are gone so he can practice his eating skills. He will become an easier house guest once he is eating on his own too!

Treesa


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Since the little guy is drinking already it won't be long before he will be eating on his own. You should leave a deep spill proof dish of seed, as well as water, out for him while you are gone so he can practice his eating skills. He will become an easier house guest once he is eating on his own too!
> 
> Treesa


 Can these birds be house trained? Or do you have to take measures to protect the carpeting?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kwikkordead,



You could consider to try this - (this is still my rough draft primer for initisl guidelines of feeding an new young or adolescent Columbiforme. This is also a great moralle booster for them. One your's age will be eating on it's own tonight or tomorrow if you follow these steps, and, also, in kindness, also feed them a couple times a day as well as pecking with them as they do eat by pecking Seeds on their own...)

Go to the Grocery Store and buy some regular Baby Nipples.

Take one and with scizzors, cut off the flange or collar.

You will be useing the hollow side of it to put formula or Water in.

Any formula you feed them should be fairly thin, since they are in essense, drinking it more than eating it. 

Small whole Seeds may be added to varying percentages to the otherwise 'gravy' of the formula.

Individual Birds, Doves especially, can be a little finicky, so, if you have a Dove, expect to try different variations of formulas and or percentages of small whole Seeds or other ingredients untill you hit on a combo or recipe they go for.

The formula must be fed to them at around "wrist" temperature, ALLWAYS.

Make your formula in a cup which is sitting in a pan on of Hot Water. Keep it sitting in the pan of hot Water so it does not cool off while you refill the Nipple.

Test the formula by putting your finger into it and stirring. It should feel like 'no temperature'.


For your purposes right now kwickkordead, you could make some formula out of Graham Cracker and Corn Meal and be allright since this is not as crucial as it would be with a Bird who you will be feeding for it's sole source of food.

Also, get a small sized to-go-cup or Dixie-cup and cut off about 3/4 inch or 1 inch at most of the bottom to make a small, shallow Seed-feeding cup.


Moisten your finger tips in warm Water...

Approach the little Bird from straight on from the front, at about their eye level. Set them ON something even to do so, something where they have room and will not be precarious.

Slowly reach for their Beak while saying 'OooOOOooo! - OooooOOooo!' in a medium, slow, lowish voice. Kinda like if you were saying 'MmmmMMMmm!' to convey how something tastes good, but where the 'MmmmMMmmm' would have your mouth closed, the 'OooooOOOooo!' is done with one's mouth, one's lips, made into a little "o"...

Do this and gently, from the front, with moist warm finger tips, massage it's little Beak.


If the Bird "nuzzles" and or responds with signs of accepting your invitation to feed them...gently guide their Beak into the hollow BACKSIDE of the Nipple, into which you have put, say, for the first experiment, merely some TEPID Water.

If the Bird is interested and responding, it may very well be quite assertive and enthused, pushing forward forcefully, squeakinf and flapping it's Wings.

Try and support the Bird from it's shoulders with your free hand, and try not to press against it's Crop.

Hold the Nipple at about their Crop level and tilted toward them. when feeding them formula, let the Bird guide you as for how they wish to pull their head 'in' for swallowing, and how they may stretch their neck 'out' for gobbleing or drinking. There is a cadence they will prefer and it is subtle, so you have to let them guide you in how it works.

If you can get the Bird to be "nuzzleing" in this way, you can feed them IN the hollow back side of the Nipple, with various sorts of thin, 'Gravy' thin formula recipies.

Now, for having done that a few times, you may then, also, gently guide their Beak into a small container, in this case, something LIKE a 'Shot Glass' or the bottom of a small size to-go Cup you have cut out from the whole to-go cup.

Gently, keeping your finger tips ON their little Beak, or on the sides of their beak at it's root, and guide their 'nuzzleing' Beak into the little cup or glass which you have filled with PLAIN, WHOLE, SMALL, SEEDS...

The Baby or young Pigeons and Doves I have done this with so far, made 'gobbleing' - 'feeding' motions with their Beaks, and in effect, by opening and closeing their Beaks, ate very well the little whole Seeds in the small glass or cup bottom, into which I had guided their Beak...and on whose little Beaks I keep my finger tips gently resting untill they DO do this with out me doing so.

For the first few times of this, one keeps one's finger tips ON their little Beak.

One also ALLWAYS from the first, ANY TIME ONE IS TO OFFER FOOD OR WATER, one makes the "OoooooOOOOoooo!" sounds.

The moist finger tip Beak massage need only be done the first time. THAT IS THE INITIAL INVITATION, that is the 'Curtain Raiser'.


If all of this is not done, and done in an easy sensitive sequence for them, we get all the problems that almost everyone writes in with every day.

All these damned force feeds and problems and admonishions of how the Bird needs 'Tough Love' because no 'Love' deference or patience has been shown them in any real terns THEY understand or will do well with.

This works just as well for Baby or young Doves as it does for Baby or young Pigeons, who very soon know what you are 'talking' about when you make the sounds for them. Who in fact after the FIRST time one does this and does it right, they know what you are 'saying'.

Mine (Baby or young Doves) tended to come running when I would announce the arrival of 'chow time' by these sounds.

This then, the little 'Seed Gobble' which they WILL do in a 1 inch or so little cup of SMALL WHOLE SEEDS, if guided to it gently and correctly...it will very soon, VERY soon, lead naturally and easily and effortlessly, to them pecking and eating Seeds ALL BY THEMSELVES out of the same little 
cup and then soon after, off of a folded Towell ( A folded towell lets them peck 'deeper' around the Seed to get a grip on it, than a flat hard surface will).

You can and SHOULD also 'peck' with them of course with your crook'd index finger. Have the back of your hand or your knuckles against them when doing this


Most Grocery Stores for that matter carry Canary Seed, Parakeet Seed and so on. Get the Seeds when you go there to get the Nipples.

Good luck!


The guidelines for 'release' we can go into later.


For now, you are the surrogate parent of thise Bird and they naturally will rely on you to some extent. 

Please do not confuse this with 'bonding' or 'imprinting'...rather, just accept that this Bird does not have anyone else TO feed them for now, and since they are relying on you, they will accept you to one degree or another unless you are ttally annoying and frightening to them.

Be nice to the Bird, be gentle and affectionate, with no worries of it being a problem.

This Bird will need to be allowed to explore and be progressing in it's muscle developement in it's own way, and at it's own self-elected pace toward flying. Cages are not a good idea for Birds of this age who need to be testing their Wings as they please and when they please and who need to be developeing their flying muscles in various little explores and excercises.

A sleeping cage is a good idea for them to stay put in a definite place out of harm's way over night.


Till next...

Have fun!  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the guidlines on feeding. I'll try that tomorrow.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Kwikkordead said:


> Can these birds be house trained? Or do you have to take measures to protect the carpeting?


Unfortunetly we haven't been able to get them potty trained yet, or go to the cat litter box, however, you can put newspaper down, once you figure out where their favorite perches are, or old towels. It is not bad at all with one or two birds. Once the poop gets nice and solid it is easy to pick up, also. 

Pigeons do make wonderful pets, as a lot of us here have them as house guests. They are fun and entertaining and smart too. 

Treesa


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Before trying any feeding it would be a good idea to feel the pigeon’s chest to see what is in the crop (pouch below the neck) to determine if the little one is picking up seeds on its own. If the pigeon is picking up seeds you’ll feel little seed sized bumps in the crop. After doing that please feel the keel (sternum) of the pigeon, if the keel is sharp like a knife the pigeon may need some supplementary feeding to build up weight regardless of picking up seeds. But, if the pigeon’s keel is not projecting and the little one is picking up seeds I’d leave the pigeon alone and check the bird’s weight by feeling the keel periodically. If your pigeon proceeds to loose weight then you will have to feed. 


If you have to feed I'd start with Science Diet canine maintaince (or Purina or Iams) kibble and soak it until soft in water. Then tear the kibble until it’s bite sized for the pigeon. Gently open the beak (pigeons don’t gape) and poke the food into the bird’s mouth, the pigeon will get the idea and swallow on it’s own. Feed until the crop is soft and full, not taunt. Due to the pigeon’s age you could get away with feeding every 3-6 hours, and you don’t have to feed at night (though you can squeeze extra feedings in at night if your bird is emaciated).


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Update:
First of all, thank you all for the very excellent help. I found that I was handling the bird all wrong. I was letting it look around while I moved it and found that the best way is to cover it's head. Makes for a MUCH calmer bird.
I felt it's crop and it's very full of seeds, so it's feeding well. It's sternum is feeling a little on the edgy side, but with it's full crop, I doubt that will stay that way for long.
I haven't gone off to PetSmart yet to get some powder, and I need to talk my wife into helping me. Maybe with some latex gloves on....  
Here's a picture of the paper towel. Most of the droppings are on it for the last 24 hours. About 10% more in other places.









And I put it up on a high banister next to the deck in the back yard with it's food, grit and water next to it. I'm hoping it will excercise it's wings, but so far it's just standing there and looking around. I had it on my shoulder for a few minutes and it managed to fly away horizontally. First time I've seen that. All the other "flights" have been flapping descents.
Once again, thank you all for your help.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kwickordead,


If that is 90 percent of 24 hours worth of poops, then something is for sure not right.

A Bird this age or so, if all is well, will make about three times that and they will be well formed with "white" and green-brown and the size of 'Raisens'.

If their Crop is full of Seeds they ate by themselves, then why go to petsmart to get powder to make formula out of?

Also, be sure their Crop is emptying overnight, or at least emptying, and that is not in some stasis...especially IF you intend ( by what means or method?) to make them eat by force or to invite them to eat 'formula' made from any kind of powder.

If their Crop is not emptying normally, this can make an already marginally sour Crop, get worse and fast, too.

What kind of Seeds is the Bird getting? Is it getting Grit also?

Please be careful about letting this Bird 'out' untill you are sure it is healthy.

So far, I am thinking either it's diet was bad previously, and or it is not healthy enough to now risk it getting away and being on it's own yet.

My youngsters generally make about 13 to 15 white and Green-Brown 'Raisens' every six hours or so.

If not, something is not right...

If the Bird IS eating well on it's own, maybe just consider to ask some of us how to augment the Seed diet with some added, enhanced nutrition.

If the Crop is not emptying normally, for the Bird to BE making 40 or so good poops-a-day...you can ask what to do about that.


Best wishes,  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)




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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the info pdpbison. According to your info there must be a problem. It poops a lot, but it's a lot of watery substance mixed in with the solids that you see in the picture. More water than solids. My back yard is very secure, a six foot solid fence that it would have to fly over to get out. Gaining strength daily, too. Right now I am thinking that it was ill and pushed out or fell out of the nest because it was pretty lethargic when I picked it up less than a week ago. It's MUCH perkier and looking around, exploring, etc. Monday evening will make it a full week. It's made several horizontal flights from various places, that never happened before today.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kwickkordead,


Yahhhh...this is the age when they are developeing their muscles for flight, and wishing to test them in various explores or attainments of higher places. This will soon lead to them being quite able to surmount your fence.

Keep an eye on their Crop, as for whether it seems to stay full or emptys somewhat as they refill it.

Good quality Seed, good quality Grit, and good Water for now, and see what shakes. The poops might become normal just for a good diet being available now.

Make sure to get them some good Grit of some kind.

Mine tend to get the crushed Oyster Shell kind.


Young Birds who do not fly yet, if seperated from their parents, often starve and become ill from opportunistic illness predating on their diminished energy and immune systems. Sometimes merely good food for a while is enough for them to get healthy again. 

You can also moisten their Seeds lightly, with Olive Oil from a NEW "fresh" Bottle, just enough, so that you can get some pro-biotics to stick to them. Adding also, some good powdered Bird Vitamine-Minerals such as 'Nekton-T'...and also some ('super Greens' such as) Chlorella ( any health food store for the pro-biotics, Chlorella and Raw Apple Cider Vinegar...)

If it was me, I would likely put them on Raw Apple Cider Vinegar in their Water...about 1-1/2 Tablespoons of it to the Gallon....for the next week or so. Mix this in a plastic jug and not a glass one.

Watch the poops...watch their Crop...be careful they do not fly over the fence...at any rate, make sure their outings are constantly supervised anyway, in case they do...

Good luck...!  



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Well.........
I tried the baby nipple thing and it just flaps and fights. Either I doing something wrong or it's just too "wild" of a bird for it to see me as it's friend. What I did was to take some of the dove seed that I have. I cleaned out the Mr. Coffee bean grinder until it looked brand new inside. I put some of the dove seed in it and ground it to a very rough flour consistancy. Then I mixed 1 part of that to 1 part of corn meal and mixed it with water until it was a thin gruel. Made sure it was body temperature. I tried to feed it that way but it just wants to get away from me. Once free it will stand calmly within a few feet of me, but will not let me approach within arms reach. I have to catch it and then it starts to squeak and fight. I tried covering it's head gently with my hand and it calms right down, but as soon as I remove it to get a bit of food for it, it want's to get away. So I gave up that method. It was more traumitizing for the bird than productive. I dumped the mix into a bowl and hope for the best. It is eating something as it's producing droppings but they are more watery stuff and a small bit of solids. The paper towel that I used for liner has a slight bile green tint to it.
I let it out for most of the day yesterday and it just wandered around the back yard and kind of picked at varous things in the dirt. It still won't attempt to fly away from me, so I can't trust it to fly away from predators yet either. The good side is that whenever I put it into the cage, it starts climbing the walls and flapping it wings like it really wants out of there. A few days ago it was content to just sit there. Health is definatly improving.
Thank you all again for the help.
Dan.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Trying to help him may have traumatized him a little bit. He doesn't know you are trying to help. Just give him some space and time. Do not make sudden moves and speak to him in a soft tone. He will relax and get used to you. 

One more note, a pigeon will see the hands as a separate entity of your body, so when you clean his cage he might be jittery. Once he gets comfortable with the routine, he gets relaxed, he will peck at you and wing slap you to "protect" his area.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Kwickkordead,


If you did not moisten your fingers first, and slowly, gently, with him letting you do so, to massage his Beak while saying "OooooOOOOOooo! and so on, the likely reaponse of a Bird this age would be for it to reject the gesture and flee or resist.

You have to invite them in their own terms first, otherwise, they will not eat from the Nipple, unless they are very young...and even then, one best do the preliminaries for them to be Nuzzleing.

If yours was not "Nuzzleing", for his Beak to be guided in to the Nipple, he will not accept being fed by this method.


Do you feed the Wild Birds, Pigeons? In your back yard there?

If not, consider to start, and yours can spend time with them as they graze, and he will soon start pecking and grazing with them for their example...


Sorry if I had not been clear or emphatic on the importance of the details and sequence of the 'Moralle Booster'...

It has to be done just 'so' or it will not work.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Kwickkordead,
> 
> 
> If you did not moisten your fingers first, and slowly, gently, with him letting you do so, to massage his Beak while saying "OooooOOOOOooo! and so on, the likely reaponse of a Bird this age would be for it to reject the gesture and flee or resist.
> ...


 I fully agree. You have to speak thier language or all they hear is gibberish.
I don't feed the wild birds very much, because the food attracts city rats and then they want to move in under my house. Been there done that.
I felt it's crop, it's emtying out, but it's not eating very much. I hope it makes it, because I've done all that I can do for it. Dr. Doolittle I'm not.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Dan, 

I haven't responded to your thread but I've been following it. I think you've done a great job here with this young pigeon and have certainly gone above and beyond to help it out. 

Treesa mentioned that this bird is not far off from self feeding and I agree with her. This pigeon is capable of eating on it's own and it seems like it is indeed. Feral pigeons seem to catch on even quicker than their domestic cousins. He's drinking, eating some seeds and at one point, you even said that his crop was full of them so I feel that things are going well. 

Victor mentioned just giving him some space and this is also good advice. This is a wild pigeon and old enough that he's not likely to warm up to you over night or possibly never -which is best for later release. They tend to not eat when people are around and watching so you might never see him eat.

So, I would recommend just keeping him confined in the enclosure you constructed. Leave a dish of seeds and a tip proof dish of fresh water in the pen everyday before you leave for work and I think he'll do just fine on his own.

Thanks again for aiding this pigeon, keep us posted and good luck

P.S. You're so right about feeding the birds in the backyard and having mice or rats move in...been there, done that myself. Unfortunately it was the reason I had to stop feeding the birds in my backyard as well.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

*So far so good.*

After sunday afternoon's frustrating experience trying to feed the pigeon, I decided that maybe I'm doing something wrong. I certainly wasn't "talking it's language". So I simply dumped some seeds on the ground in front of the gate where it likes to stand and sun itself when I let it out. As soon as the seeds hit the ground it started gobbling them down. AH HAH! So I am letting it out for most of the day, but will be putting it back in the cage at night until I can no longer catch it. At that point it's sink or swim for the little guy, I've done all I can.
One other thing. I noticed that one of the ingredients in the bird seed is mineral oil. That sounds to me something along the lines of WD-40 or similar. Something that would never choose to feed any of my pets if I had any. What's up with that, and could it be the cause of the watery droppings?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi again Kwikordead, I am sorry that you are having issue with your little one. It must be frustrating, but nonetheless, please don't give up. 

The mineral oil added to the seeds is to assist in their poo movemets, acts as a laxitive basically. The seed manufacturers add the necessay blend of seeds , and nutrients needed for a good diet. You can overdue mineral oil, as a laxitive, but the content in the seed blend is the safe,appropriate amount. 

I would give him a few days of eating, and if on the ground it is presently comfortable, well darn it, so be it.At least he is eating. Keep an eye on the poos, and they should get better. 

Is he getting access to clean fresh water?

*Stress* and changes in their "homelife" and diet will change their poo consitency.Many times, this problem works its way out when corrected.

Did you mention that you are giving him a wild bird seed mix now?


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

vdog505 said:


> Hi again Kwikordead, I am sorry that you are having issue with your little one. It must be frustrating, but nonetheless, please don't give up.
> 
> The mineral oil added to the seeds is to assist in their poo movemets, acts as a laxitive basically. The seed manufacturers add the necessay blend of seeds , and nutrients needed for a good diet. You can overdue mineral oil, as a laxitive, but the content in the seed blend is the safe,appropriate amount.
> 
> ...


Plenty of access to fresh clean water. I clean and change the water dish 2x daily.
I am giving it wild bird seed. I went to Petsmart and they didn't have anything for a pigeon, but did have wild dove seed. It's eating that pretty well. It's crop is pretty full of the stuff. I've let it out of it's cage the past couple of days while I'm at work to let it forage for extra food and grit. What it does is wander around the yard, kind of pick at things, and find places to hide. VERY at risk behaviour for survival against predators. I won't be doing that again for a couple of weeks at least. I've learned that it's just too young yet to fly. Bigger cage in the works this weekend.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Kwikordead, looks like you are doing all the right things. He is very fortunate to have found you. 

You stated that this wekend you were going to buy a bigger cage this wekend. They can be a costly item, but If I may suggest checking a place such as Wal-Mart, in their pet section, they may have a couple of sizes there to choose from there, in medium, and large which are priced nicely and are wide enough for him to stretch its wings. Plenty of room to install a branch for a perch and hand deep feeding/drinking cups. (Pet-co has has nice deep ones you can hang.) We have the medium sizes one that measures 22x21 for the squirrel we rescued, but now he is living in a ferret cage found at a garage sale. Now the other one is my pigeon Tooters secondary indoor cage.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

*Update:*

Things are progressing very well. It's filled out under it's feathers, it's twice as strong as last week. Really a handful to contain if caught for examination. Strong wing beat. Still not strong enough to ascend in flight, but much better overall. Droppings have lost all trace of green color. Still lots of watery substance, but along with a lot more dark solids coming out.
I let it out of the cage to clean it and it wandered around the yard a little. It started hiding under the BBQ again or in a corner under some plywood next to the house. I caught it and examined it. Still has lots of downy feathers underneath but it's starting to look a lot more like a mature pigeon. I'll take a picture this weekend and post it.
I try and be as gentle as I can to it, but it really wants to flap it's wings when in my hands. I was getting worried that it was going to bruise it's little shoulders under my thumbs. Quite a handful to contain the wings. So I try and keep that sort of contact down to a minimum.
After I cleaned out the cage, put fresh paper towels down, fresh feed, grit, water. It stood on the edge of the patio and looked at me. I tried to sing to it a little in a low voice and it kind of twitched it's wings a little as I sang. After a few minutes of that I went on to a little project next to the garden. When that was finished I was surprised to see the pigeon back in it's cage in the shelter box, all hunched down like it was planning on going to sleep. It went in there voluntarily. So I think (hope) that I have a friend for life.  Starting to get attached to the little critter, I guess I'll have to give it a name.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Kwikkordead said:


> After a few minutes of that I went on to a little project next to the garden. When that was finished I was surprised to see the pigeon back in it's cage in the shelter box, all hunched down like it was planning on going to sleep. It went in there voluntarily. So I think (hope) that I have a friend for life.  Starting to get attached to the little critter, I guess I'll have to give it a name.


This is an absoulte guaranteed good sign! Your new friend is trusting you and accepting you. It feels safe and comfortable with you as its caretaker. I am happy that things are getting better for the TWO of you. 

Keep us posted and informed of the new name!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Kwikkordead said:


> So I think (hope) that I have a friend for life.  Starting to get attached to the little critter, I guess I'll have to give it a name.


Given your comment, I was surprised that you sent me a private email an hour before your post asking if I would be interested in taking your bird. And then, today, another email asking if I happened "...to know anyone who would be? Within a days drive?"


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Given your comment, I was surprised that you sent me a private email an hour before your post asking if I would be interested in taking your bird. And then, today, another email asking if I happened "...to know anyone who would be? Within a days drive?"


 Sorry for the confusing signals.
I found this bird on the sidewalk in front of my business. I couldn't just leave it there and die. I know this sort of thing happens all the time without human intervention and they die, but I don't have to watch it happen right in front of my door. This time it had the good fortune of being found by someone who just couldn't stand by and let that happen. But I wasn't really looking for a pet or the responsibility of caring for one. I haven't had any sort of pet for 30 years. I still don't really want to care for this bird, but am doing it because it needs a little help into adulthood or it will die. I am confident that it would be able to forage for food and survive right now, but we have cats, rats, racoons, possums, dogs, crows in the immediate area surrounding my house. And it cannot fly away from those enemies yet. So I just want to give it a fighting chance and then release it. And why I am asking if anyone wants to take it is because if it mingles with it's own kind, it's chances of survival will be even greater.
Bottom line, I don't want to keep it. I just want to see, or know, that it made it.
Also on the agenda today is a project to build a bigger shelter for it.
If I could put a name to the feelings that I am having about this whole this is I am being voluntarily drafted into the service of caring for it. Willing to go the distance, but it wasn't my idea to begin with.
(sigh) I also know that sometimes the best things in life come that way. (shrug). Kind of like unplanned parenthood. At the beginning you aren't ready for it AT ALL, but when they grow up and you have a lifetime love for your kids, changing anything is unacceptable.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kwwickkordead,


I forgot where you are at geographically, but if you or an assign are headed out this way, to Las Vegas, I'd be happy to see 'em through the rest of the way and so assimilate him into my feral Flock here...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Hi kwwickkordead,
> 
> 
> I forgot where you are at geographically, but if you or an assign are headed out this way, to Las Vegas, I'd be happy to see 'em through the rest of the way and so assimilate him into my feral Flock here...
> ...


 Well, how about it? Anyone going to Vegas soon?


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Wanted to give you all an update. Pigeon is growing well, droppings are nice solid, black. I'm getting ready to release it tomorrow by opening the gate to the cage that I built for it. What do you all think? Is it too soon yet? The wing tips extend almost clear to the end of the nice long tail feathers. It's eating very well on it's own and leaving lot's of droppings under the cage.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Kwickkordead,



Wait awhile yet before release...

This Bird does not yet have very much for flight muscles or stamina.


Anyway, refresh my memory?

Is there a wild flock near you who has a good situation?

Have you visited and fed them to acquaint them with you a little?

Can you take your Bird to visit them a few times, and let it graze with them?

It might be too shy the first few times TO do anything but stand there and tremble.

You could tape your Bird's primaries together, over - on top of - it's tail, when you do this, so it will not fly, and gently begin to let it have your supervised forays to graze amid the wild ones. Unless your habits so far have an arrangement with your Bird that it comes to you when called. You do not want them getting away prematurely.

If you do not do this, yours might not make it, merely for having been perfunctorily 'released', which in reality is not much more than dumped with no benifit of any continuity or graduated education from progressive experience TO accept and be accepted into the sociaty of other Birds.

See what you can come up with on that...

An Adult who one has convelesced is another matter entirely from a youngster one has raised, when it comes to setting them free again.

Birds we have raised, even partially, as you have, need to be assimilated in a succession of forays, to the society of their feral fellows.

When opeople do not understand this they end up saying things like "Well I tried to let him go and he just flew right back on to my shoulder, so I guess he wants to stay..." and so on...clueless...no continuity or patience or deference or undertsanding of the Bird.

Three or four times of such occasions, with primaries taped together, should work allright, and the next occasion then let them have their Wings. If they come to you when called, then likely you can skip the tape.

Do this over say the next two weeks. do four or five occasions if you can, and no less than that. In two weeks he'll likely be ready enough to make the grade flying wise, so long as the flock is not one which goes to roost some huge distance.

Do these forays toward dusk or so if possible...so that the grazing flock is on their last graze of the day...so on his last foray with your superviseing him, he can go fly off with them to roost for the night, and in the morning, fly with them to where ever they go to graze in their sequences of seeking grazing opportunities.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Kwikkordead said:


> Wanted to give you all an update. Pigeon is growing well, droppings are nice solid, black. I'm getting ready to release it tomorrow by opening the gate to the cage that I built for it. What do you all think? Is it too soon yet? The wing tips extend almost clear to the end of the nice long tail feathers. It's eating very well on it's own and leaving lot's of droppings under the cage.


Hello and thank you for the update. The picture is wonderful.

Lets hold off releasing for now, it may be a bit early. Can you tell us more about the black droppings? Is he eating pigeon seed?

Treesa


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Kwikkordead said:


> Well, how about it? Anyone going to Vegas soon?



...so it's a big secret? where you are geographically?

Or must we scroll through all of your previous threads under various headings so far, for the next hour or so to see if it was mentioned?

If you would say, it might make it easier for us to know...and hence, possibly, co-ordinate something.


Phil
las vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> ...so it's a big secret? where you are geographically?
> 
> Or must we scroll through all of your previous threads under various headings so far, for the next hour or so to see if it was mentioned?
> 
> ...


  Sorry, I live in North Seattle, WA. I'll see about updating the options when I'm done with this message.
Thanks for the advice in the earlier post.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't going to take it somewhere and just leave it to fend for itself. My intention is to simply open the door of the cage before I go to work. If it chooses to leave or stay it is up to Pigeon. I live in what seems to be a pigeon corridor. I frequently see pigeons winging by above the back yard in flight, but there is really no reason for them to stop. I found one looking at me from the power line in the front yard this morning and as soon as I looked at it and said "Hello" it took to the wing and left.
Droppings look the same as all the others that litter the sidewalk around where I work. So I am guessing that it's a healthy bird.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kwickkordead,


Without progressive, supervised social times to be amid feral others, your Bird will have no advantage whatever merely leaving it's cage to go a few houses away, or maybe to go a block or two or untill grounded from privation, and get eaten by a dog or cat because it does not fly well enough yet nor have the socialization unto it's wild kin to join them in finding grazing situations and to learn from them the wiles of survival.


Cages do not do much either for them to develop their flying muscles, but really that is the least of the concerns presently.

Please consider me mentions a few posts above as for their socialization.


Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Hi kwickkordead,
> 
> 
> Without progressive, supervised social times to be amid feral others, your Bird will have no advantage whatever merely leaving it's cage to go a few houses away, or maybe to go a block or two or untill grounded from privation, and get eaten by a dog or cat because it does not fly well enough yet nor have the socialization unto it's wild kin to join them in finding grazing situations and to learn from them the wiles of survival.
> ...


 Ok, I guess I'll look around for a feeding ground and start there.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi quickkordead,



Yes...please...do so.

Start now, since recommendations for this were not begun weeks ago when first explained.

If you do not accustom the feral flock TO you kneeling there, they will be too afraid of you for it to do your Bird any good...all your Bird will be getting is that everyone is afraid of you, and you will be in no position to supervise the little socialization outings.

If you do not supervise them more or less in some approximation to how their parents would have, then your Bird will quite possibly have troubles in various ways, among which, is too much confusion for it to know what to do...and or getting hassled by other Birds or older males, etc. or being caught in the middle between them and a you no one trusts TO be there.

If you are 'there' correctly, all you need to do is say "Ahem!" and a male pestering your youngster will usually lay off since the vibe and the sense IS "there" of you being your Bird's caretaker and are looking after it and everyone more or less knows you sort-of for you to have some say.

One does not have to be Saint Francis or Dr. Dolittle...

One merely takes the time to think, imagine, and understand some of the basics of what is at hand in this context of raising a baby Pigeon and seeing them through to their social debut, in ways which are of benifit to the Bird beyond merely having fed it and kept it perfunctorily.

They are not born knowing all of this, but they are fast learners if only we will guide and support them.

For you to watch over them in their progression of successive socialization forays amid a wild flock, that flock needs some time to get used to you, and used to you as being safe and easy and okay with them.


Phil
las vegas


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