# Veterinarians, Not just unhumans, but Corrupt.



## ETphonehome (Jan 3, 2012)

*Why American health care is inching closer to veterinary clinic status*
’m saddened to say that in today’s healthcare environment many, if not most patients are being treated as if they are owned by their insurance company, or in the case of older patients, the disabled and the poor, it’s the government that functions as the de facto pet owner. 
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/04/american-health-care-inching-closer-veterinary-clinic-status.html

*Corrupt Zoo Chief Vet**
Kyiv Zoo veterinarian's incompetance caused the death of 'Boy' the elephant, and allegations have been made against him*over misuse of zoo*funds,*yet he is still employed. 
http://www.naturewatch.eu/corrupt-zoo-chief-vet

*Pig Scandal in Norfolk*
serial and institutional state veterinary crime.
http://www.freag.net/en/t/4c5dx/pig_scandal_in_


*In memory of Stempy Muson*
OBVIOUSLY, THE BOARD PROTECTS VETS...NOT OUR PETS. 
We blindly trusted this vet. Yes, things did not seem right after the unauthorized surgery. It is why my wife took Stempy back to this vet every day after the unauthorized surgery. The vet made my wife feel like we were crazy for being so worried or concerned. The VET was supposed to be the professional here - not us. *It was not until AFTER he died that I started to really examine and research what had just happened. *
http://stempy.net/


*the majority of Vets are financially motivated and morally corrupt. This is based on my experience with over the past 50 years of owning, breeding and training dogs. *
http://leerburg.com/vets.htm?set=1

*
In memory and honor of one very special cat victim*
Veterinary incompetnece, negligence, and abuse are alive well in the United states and all over the world, every day untold nummer of defenceless animals are left in the hands of some negligent, imcompetent doctors who inflict cruelty, injury and death on our pets – and get away with it.
http://vetabusenetwork.com/



> *I do not care about the opinion of anyone anywhere, I do care about proven and demonstrated facts on ethics and scientific truth,* like the dehumanized medical system full of lies in which people are force to live in, quit, die, or shut up.
> 
> I could go on for months and probably years to demonstrate with research the links above are not exceptions but the rule used by the system as the exception to the rule which it is not.
> 
> ...





> We live in the most seamlessly disinformed nation in world history. It matters not the topic—historical or contemporary events, theology, politics, economics, science, medicine—we are being fed an endless barrage of lies. The lies are continually reinforced, generation after generation, through public instruction and the international multimedia. As of today, most Americans are living their lives with minds so filled with lies they blindly engage in numerous self-destructive activities, including the faithful ingestion of pharmaceutical poisons errantly believed by millions to be medicines. In order to free our people we must help them to tear down the walls in their minds. The article below is excellently crafted and should start the process by removing a few key bricks.
> 
> Shane Ellison M.Sc.
> From the November 2005 Idaho Observer:





> Taking antibiotics will kill bacteria.
> 
> This is medical subgerfuge and distortion as even the medical community realizes that antibiotics don't do what they are supposed to do. *We say with alarm that disease is becoming resistant to antibiotics. They are not "resistant" because they have never been operative or effective*. Antibiotics are the acidic waste products of fermentation. To make an antibiotic, you need a yeast or mold and some sugar for the yeast or mold to ferment. The bi-product of the yeast or mold fermenting the sugar is the acidic antibiotic. The acids from antibiotics DO NOT KILL BACTERIA. They only force the bacteria to change. Into what does bacteria change? Into yeast and mold. That is why when you take antibiotics you end up with a yeast infection! That's the antibiotic causing the bacteria to change from one form to another. I call this process of change "biological transformation" and the reason why you should NEVER take antibiotics.
> 
> Robert O. Young D.Sc., Ph.D., NMD


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't know what your problem is, ET, but you are not making a whole lot of sense.

Ref your last two quotes, for example ....

Shane Ellison makes his living from so-called natural health products and writing, and is quite obviously biased against 'normal' medicine for his own agenda. He is a chemist, basically, and has never had any actual medical qualifications.

The alleged 'doctor' Robert O. Young D.Sc., Ph.D., NMD has no medical practioner's license. You can find out about him at the website http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/young3.html (note the name of the site  ) Now that is corrupt!

One might ask, if you believe what this Young fraud wrote, why did you give your birds antibiotics?

To take your links ....

1. Why American health care is inching closer to veterinary clinic status

*This isn't about vets* - it's about how the author sees the state of human medicine in the USA. Check your facts!

2. Corrupt Zoo Chief Vet 

Yep, a bad, bad man. Somewhere in the Ukraine, and quite likely part of some kind of Russian Mafia outfit for all we know.

3. Pig Scandal in Norfolk

This situation, involving employees clubbing animals to death, was actually reported in the veterinary journal. It did not involve any vets, so again you need to check your facts!

4. In memory of Stempy Muson

I got totally lost on this one, which frankly comes over as an emotionally driven campaign against the vet. Wonder if we can find *her* side of the story?

5. the majority of Vets are financially motivated and morally corrupt...etc.

You forgot some of it: 



> *Cindy and I have a veterinarian (Dr. Rice - The Stillwater Vet Clinic in Stillwater, MN) who in our opinion can walk on water. There is no doubt in our mind that we could not find a better veterinarian anywhere in the country. Dr. Rice truly loves and cares about animals. I could write an article praising this man. His ethics, his professionalism, the way he cares about the welfare of animals is simply amazing. One only has to be around him for a few minutes to trust and like him. All I can say is he that he inspires me. *
> 
> It is unfortunate that Dr. Rice is not the model to be used by all vets. In fact the sad thing is that he is a rare gem of a person.
> 
> ...


I think she's a bit confused 

6. In memory and honor of one very special cat victim

Err... how about:



> Millions of people take their pets to vets every year. *Although skilled, competent veterinary care certainly outweighs the incidences of negligence and abuse,* the damage that those veterinarians do is incalculable in terms of animal suffering, public health and safety, consumer fraud, and the emotional devastation caused by knowing that our beloved pets were harmed or destroyed by the very person entrusted with their care.


Now this has taken up way too much time, checking that this post was acceptable. I suggest you tell it from your own experience - it sounds like you had a rough deal from a vet and you've got it in for the whole profession. If so, then don't use PT as a platform for it. Deal with it.

None of this actually involves pigeons, so I don't quite see the relevance anyway. If people have a sick pigeon and we can recommend an avian vet, or a vet we know can deal with the problem, then we shall suggest people make use of one. If we don't, then we can only advise based on what we are told, and from our own experiences.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ET, I don't understand what your problem is either. If you have had a bad experience with a vet, than I am sorry for that. People have bad experiences with Doctors all the time. Would you not go to the doctor if you really needed one? There are many good vets out there, but many may not be as experienced in Pigeons as they could be. I have a great vet who always gives it her best, and she listens and takes suggestions. She is an avian vet, but just learning about pigeons. She's great and I'm glad I found her. Your posts don't make any sense, but could also frighten some one away from going to a vet when needed, and that could cost the bird his life.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> ET, I don't understand what your problem is either. If you have had a bad experience with a vet, than I am sorry for that. People have bad experiences with Doctors all the time. Would you not go to the doctor if you really needed one? There are many good vets out there, but many may not be as experienced in Pigeons as they could be. I have a great vet who always gives it her best, and she listens and takes suggestions. She is an avian vet, but just learning about pigeons. She's great and I'm glad I found her. Your posts don't make any sense, *but could also frighten some one away from going to a vet when needed, and that could cost the bird his life*.


I'm glad someone else sees it this way, already pointed this out in previous posts, but ET ignores it and starts another thread ranting the same illogical & incorrect crap.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

In MY opinion this site should not be about bashing the medical community human or animal.. for every bad story there is a good one. This is a pro pigeon site..not an anti-medical site to unload. perhaps there is a place for it somewhere else.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> In MY opinion this site should not be about bashing the medical community human or animal.. for every bad story there is a good one. This is a pro pigeon site..not an anti-medical site to unload. perhaps there is a place for it somewhere else.


I totally agree!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> In MY opinion this site should not be about bashing the medical community human or animal.. for every bad story there is a good one. This is a pro pigeon site..not an anti-medical site to unload. perhaps there is a place for it somewhere else.



*This site* is not about bashing such things. But, at what point do you think we should draw the line at what people are permitted to post? At what point do you think we would cross the line into censorship (of which we have often been accused by disgruntled members in the past)?

To be quite honest about it, I don't feel that we are 'right' whatever we allow or disallow, because somebody will complain at any decision we make.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Between this and all the peta threads.........I'm so confused!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Msfreebird said:


> Between this and all the peta threads.........I'm so confused!


Hey, just go cuddle a pigeon and take a nap - fixes lotsa brainaches


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

John_D said:


> *This site* is not about bashing such things. But, at what point do you think we should draw the line at what people are permitted to post? At what point do you think we would cross the line into censorship (of which we have often been accused by disgruntled members in the past)?
> 
> To be quite honest about it, I don't feel that we are 'right' whatever we allow or disallow, because somebody will complain at any decision we make.


you moderate this site very well IMO.. (Im a fan..lol..)

I don't think you/they kabali whomever should censor anything. it was merely my opinion on it and hoped there would be some common sense that veterinarians are part of the help pigeons get whether they have a biggotry for them or not, it is just a fact and would hope they would take this someplace it may be more valuble to them of like minds.. in other words it seems out of place with a helpful sight such as this and would hope they will move on to a place where they can sit on the soap box and have like minds maybe more attractive for the attention they are seeking. it was a suggestion..but I know it is probably is not going to be taken. same with the peta deal..one thread warning folks seems logical.. but move on..one is only needed.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe it's the weather. Been raining a lot here lately. Cool and overcast. Maybe everyone just needs to get out more and get some fresh air. Maybe everyone would feel better and be happier. Some sunshine would sure help around here.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

either that or a full moon?..lol.. thought I heard something about a mega moon..lol..

perhaps combining the threads so it can go off to cyberspace some place would seem more appropriate? Im done bumping this one.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

How is this relevant to anything?


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

John_D said:


> *This site* is not about bashing such things. But, at what point do you think we should draw the line at what people are permitted to post? At what point do you think we would cross the line into censorship (of which we have often been accused by disgruntled members in the past)?
> 
> To be quite honest about it, I don't feel that we are 'right' whatever we allow or disallow, because somebody will complain at any decision we make.


*Every one* should go back and read item 6 under PTs Policies and Terms of Use, and then decide if what we want to post violates any part of that item. After reading it again, I see that some of my previous posts may have been borderline(and to be honest, may have crossed that line). And I know that several other members have recently crossed that line by defaming both Vets and MDs, and pigeon racers. If not outright, then by insinuation. 

*John* - I know you and the other administrators face very hard decisions about what to consider censorship, and what is ok within the confines of PTs Policies and Terms of Use. But several recent threads, and posts to those threads, have IMO, crossed the line. Maybe when something comes up that is very agitating to a great number of members, it should be brought to the attention of all the administrator/moderators to vote on whether they think it has crossed the line. Individual administrators can decide what should be voted on based on their interpretation of PT rules, and bring it to the attention of the others. That way, no one administrator can be called out for censorship. Maybe this could actually be written into the terms and use section, so everyone knows what to expect if a bad situation comes up again. I think that having something more defined would keep this stuff from happening. At least if it did, the offender(s) could be sent to look at the written policy before their pos, or thread is removed. Maybe expand item 5. Just a suggestion.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> How is this relevant to anything?


Indeed one may ask. It's kinda gone off into what is acceptable to post and what's not.

Almondman - yep, the very first post in this thread could be interpreted as inaccurate and hateful - but I somehow doubt that maligning a profession rather than a specific member of it could be 'defamatory'.

---​
I have to say, I would be quite happy if our site owners were to appoint their own admin or head moderator or whatever, who would oversee without participating, and if he/she felt something was out of line just jump on it without discussion. Such person would not even have to be at all knowledgeable about pigeons - just about how to keep a forum in line. But, I can't see them paying someone just to watch over Pigeon-Talk.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

John - I see the point, still too bad!. I guess it's easy for me to talk tough when I don't have to face the music of a bad decision.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Unfortunately when one continually posts information which is NOT the general consensus of rule, but just their own belief, and do this in such a way that the information can be taken by anyone who comes looking for help would follow it as the norm then sometimes lines have to be crossed to make certain points.
I think everyone here would agree that first and foremost the main point in the forums (i'm refering mainly to the rehab section here) is the pigeons & their well being.
Attacks are not neccessarilly personal against any member, but at the biased and dangerous content of what they are actually posting.
I have said several times that this could lead to someone following advice which could be detremental to the birds health. This info is not *accidentally* wrong info, or a wild guess as to what to do, but blatantly giving poor or incorrect information because they refuse acknowlege the norm.
Everyone here gives information to help based on their experiance in dealing with similar things, but most also make a balanced opinion on what is right and wrong.
This whole scenario is based on ET's biased opinion on vet care and useof antibiotics as a preventative measure, (and biased research only showing info they agree with), and has as finally led to this post.....
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=667345&postcount=2


ETphonehome said:


> Take a look at this page to help her further, Baytril or any broad-spectrum antibiotic will be enough in this case. Post pictures and or videos of the hen if you can and stay tune.
> 
> *Do not bother to take her to any vet they are ignorants about pigeon care among many other things*.
> 
> http://www.roller-pigeon.com/Roller_Pigeon_Feature_Article.html


This is the first reply to someone asking for help......
Now although ET goes on to give further specific info aboutthe problem,
Is this NO VET advice actually advice we should we be giving out ?
I really dont think so.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree that the title of this thread is extreme and over generalized. I agree with what John suggested, for the OP to just be real and talk about his/her personal experiences with Vets- if they are sad or bad ones, then ET might just need some support and a listening ear right now. Also, seek out a new Vet if you can, even just a regular vet with an eagerness to learn...they are out there.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK, this thread is now closed. This is just a bunch of rambling links and unrelated things .. doesn't belong in General forum and if there is anything of substance here, somebody can open a new thread. We're done here now.

Terry


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