# Selective Breeding - How do I do it?



## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

I have gotten 4 new birds, 2 hens and 2 cocks. These are good blood line birds and are meant to be breed together. I think I know that I can not just put them in the loft with the other birds right now. So how do I get them to pair up? Do I lock a hen and cock together in a nest box with their own food and water? I have some 16x24x48 cages in the garage, would that be better that the 16x14x24 nest boxes in the loft? If they are locked up together will they bond for life? Then, can I let them loose in the general population? I am just getting started so the loft I built this fall is just one big room, etc. After the Holidays I plan to start a new loft that will be arranged correctly but until its done I have to work with what I have.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jack1747 said:


> I have gotten 4 new birds, 2 hens and 2 cocks. These are good blood line birds and are meant to be breed together. I think I know that I can not just put them in the loft with the other birds right now. So how do I get them to pair up? Do I lock a hen and cock together in a nest box with their own food and water? I have some 16x24x48 cages in the garage, would that be better that the 16x14x24 nest boxes in the loft? If they are locked up together will they bond for life? Then, can I let them loose in the general population? I am just getting started so the loft I built this fall is just one big room, etc. After the Holidays I plan to start a new loft that will be arranged correctly but until its done I have to work with what I have.


If these are totally new birds that have never been bred together, then I would advise against just putting a pair in a cage together. If you have enough of the cages in the garage, your best bet would be to put the two birds that you want mated together in two separate cages, side by side. That way they will "flirt" and "fall in love" but the cock can't get to the hen to hurt her. Once they are mated, then they can be put in the loft with the other birds, but I would go about that in a precise way. Not just throw them in there. 
I guess some people may think I'm just crazy as a loon........ , but with my own personal birds, I'm very particular about their well being and happiness, so no matter how inconvenient it may be for me to go through all the "processes" I go through, in the long run, the birds are better off. 
If you want to pair them up in the way I stated above, then we can "discuss" moving them to the loft when you're ready.
I'm sure that others will be along with ideas also.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lovebirds said:


> I guess some people may think I'm just crazy as a loon........ , but with my own personal birds, I'm very particular about their well being and happiness, so no matter how inconvenient it may be for me to go through all the "processes" I go through, in the long run, the birds are better off.


Just as an example.........it has taken me about 4 weeks to move 5 of my young birds from this year to the OB race loft/team. Last year, I tried moving 4 or 5 birds all at the same time and it was a disaster. They finally got it straightened out amongst themselves, but what a pain it was for them AND me.
I have 15 boxes. I had 10 cocks. The 5 boxes that aren't being used are always locked up. I moved one young cock at a time. Locked him in his box (the one that *I *want him in) for a couple of hours with food and water, and then let him loose. After a few minutes of being chased, which always happens when you introduce a new bird, if he didn't go back to his box, then I caught him and locked him back up for a few more hours. Moving one bird at a time, gives that one bird time to realize that there is only one box available to him and he has no choice but to take it. If he goes in any of the other boxes that are already "claimed" he gets thrown out. BUT.........if he goes in HIS box, since it's been locked up, no one is the wiser and for the most part, they don't bother him unless he leaves his box. Once I see that when he gets tired of getting chased, he retreats to his box, then I know he's safe. I then leave them alone for 3 or 4 days. Then I move another cock in and start the whole process over again. Took longer for sure, but there's peace in the loft by doing it this way.


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> your best bet would be to put the two birds that you want mated together in two separate cages, side by side.


 Boy that works for me cause thats what I did.  The four new birds are in quarantine for a couple of weeks. So by dumb luck I put them in cages next to each other.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Oh btw, it take a few hundred generations before your selective breeding will pay off.. just so you know... I think you wanted to know... how to breed for the best preformance?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Matt D. said:


> Oh btw, it take a few hundred generations before your selective breeding will pay off.. just so you know... I think you wanted to know... how to breed for the best preformance?


Aw come on Matt, don't get them down.
It CAN take so long that you don't live to see the day, but depending on what you're wanting to get out of them and what you start with/improve with, it may not take that long. Very carefull selections will pay off! Keep records and pedigrees so you know just what you have in your loft. And if you have to, give away or sell the birds you feel aren't quite up to your expectations. If you start out with good birds and keep only the best (well, best according to what you want. there are many pigeon strains that are "best" for different things), you'll find the results better without a whole lot of working.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Matt D. said:


> Oh btw, it take a few hundred generations before your selective breeding will pay off.. just so you know... I think you wanted to know... how to breed for the best preformance?


I actually think that he was asking how to pair specific birds together, rather than just throwing them in the loft and letting them mate "willy nilly".......if I'm wrong about that, I'm sure he'll let me know.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> I actually think that he was asking how to pair specific birds together, rather than just throwing them in the loft and letting them mate "willy nilly".......if I'm wrong about that, I'm sure he'll let me know.



Been investing some time thinking about this "Willy Nilly" concept. There are fanciers that use this system, and I am not convinced that on at least some level that it is such a bad idea. By that I mean if a fancier is managing his birds at the Colony level, and only allowing very exceptional birds into the breeding Colony in the first place, for the most part, I am not so sure that the "Willy Nilly" approach would be worse then when the average fancier selects the pairing. In some cases, the fancier may even be better off.

When you think of all the billions and trillions of possible gene combinations, it is very often like rolling dice in the first place. I like to think that my brilliance plays a big roll in my breeding success, but some of my biggest "Hit" pairs were simply an accident. In one case, I simply allowed a pair of bro/sis late hatches to mate, which I never would selected to put together myself. The offspring have been great racers and breeders. So now I sometimes just let a pair go if they find each other and fall in love.......and more often then not, they produce better then pairs I select myself, and have big hopes on....but what do I know.....


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

a great modern flyer that i listened to recently on pigeon radio said he opens the doors and lets the pigeons pick their mate for themselves as long as the breeding is a cross.he does this by putting cocks and hens together in rooms that can only mate with a bird of different origin.he believes in crosses.he absolutely crushes his competition year in and year out.so,he picks the line heritage and the pigeons pick their mate.it obviously works.i am fixing to buy my breeders from a local winning flyer,and i will try this approach by getting four cocks and four hens from different backgrounds and letting them pick their mate.i might add:the best 2 seasons in the past i ever had in 30 years of flying was when i "accidentally" allowed all my stock birds to pair up their way.all but 1 pair were crosses and i won 6 of 9 yb races,some by over 100 yds per minute and ran away with all the awards.i didnt learn anything from it though,because the next year i was back to pairing them up with mixed results.i have learned my lesson.

i might choose to be a little more picky than he is,but not much.


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

Pigeon Radio?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jack1747 said:


> Pigeon Radio?


http://pigeonradio.com/pr/


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Hey, Smith Family Lofts was on this time last year... did he tell us???


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Matt D. said:


> Hey, Smith Family Lofts was on this time last year... did he tell us???



Who's He?!!


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Um.... Smith Family Lofts??? a Matriarch and one of the coolist Pigeon-talk members... well whose counting right???


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> http://pigeonradio.com/pr/


Do they archive these? I would like to download the past interviews. Anyone know?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> Do they archive these? I would like to download the past interviews. Anyone know?


Yes, on the left of the screen, there's a scroll bar and most, if not all of the interviews are archived there. Don't know that you can actually download them, but you can listen to them.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Pigeon Radio hosts Smith Family Loft*

Hey !!

Quit talking about that radio show that broke all kinds of records !! It looks like I am some sort of self promoting ego maniac !  

Besides, I gave away too many secrets back in those early days !! 

And on top of that, it's free ! And then people won't pay the $59.99 for my DVD that my agent wants to put out there....so please do not go back and listen to that old thing !...... ...which just happens to be on this link.

*http://pigeonradio.com/pr/*

Simply click down until you find the Smith Family Loft interview. But, DO NOT tell to many people.........


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey !!
> 
> Quit talking about that radio show that broke all kinds of records !! It looks like I am some sort of self promoting ego maniac !
> 
> ...


Sorry Warren, the cat's already out of the bag. I guess you missed your chance at marketing that DVD! You should have taken notes from the Sampson Brothers and Alex Bieche.  They are making all kinds of money for theirs. At $60 a pop they should!

Dan


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

Based on another thread I have been reading: 

Ok, Now I am worried again.  Should I move the 2 pair of "good" birds into the loft, now? They seem to have paired up, the way they are acting. They have not layed any eggs yet. Or, keep them in the (2) 14x24x48 cages? 

The center section in the pic's was removed after the birds started showing interest in one another.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

listen to the interview with dwayne rail.i think thats his name.such a simplistic approach to pigeons,yet he clobbers his competition in old birds if you look at his record.he basically puts pigeons in rooms together that insure a cross breeding and lets them choose their mate.alot of oldschool methods along with that and he wins.you only hear him speak of pigeons that won for him in his lines of pigeons and he just continues to cross-breed.no pedigrees just performance.

i might add his birds win for alot of others as well.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> listen to the interview with dwayne rail.i think thats his name.such a simplistic approach to pigeons,yet he clobbers his competition in old birds if you look at his record.he basically puts pigeons in rooms together that insure a cross breeding and lets them choose their mate.alot of oldschool methods along with that and he wins.you only hear him speak of pigeons that won for him in his lines of pigeons and he just continues to cross-breed.no pedigrees just performance.
> 
> i might add his birds win for alot of others as well.


k-will.......I realize what you are saying and for someone who's just getting started with birds, your plan sounds like a winner. However, for some one who has ESTABLISHED pairs of breeders, in a loft, with boxes already chosen.......it would be chaos for the most part, to just throw in some new birds that have no idea WHERE their box is, WHERE to go to get away from the birds that are already in the loft and consider these new guys "intruders" and why they are being chased unmercifully. In my opinion, because of the way that Jack is introducing new birds, he's much better off just leaving them in the cages where they are. The size cage he describes is not the IDEAL size, but it's certainly not TOO small and won't hurt the birds to be in them for a couple of months. 
When I add any new breeders to my loft, it's always done during the "off" season, when the cocks and hens are separated. I introduce the cock to the cock section and let him take a box and get settled. By the time he's been in there a few months, it's much easier to get him mated up with his hen when the time comes. Right now, I have 20 nest boxes in my breeder section. Only 6 of them are being used, because 7 pair are in the individual breeding pens. So, I COULD put a few new pair of breeders into the breeding section, but I wouldn't think of doing that. Why interupt the 6 pair that are doing just fine? Throwing new birds in there now would just be a headache and it's not worth it.
I seldom buy any breeders this time of year. If I do, they most likely don't raise any babies for me until next year, because I won't disrupt the process I started 6 weeks ago with the birds I have. Just ain't worth it to me. 
Of course, this is JMO.........people can do what they want. 
So........Jack........IMHO.......I would leave your birds right where you've got them. It will be much easier for you AND the birds.  A cage that is 4 feet long is plenty big enough to raise a round or two of babies. Once you are through breeding, you can separate your birds and get the cocks settled into their section and next year there won't be this concern.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i put this response in the wrong thread.sorry,i wasnt replying to the boxes.somehow i thought i was replying to how to put birds together to raise winners.....guess this was in the wrong place.

page 1 it was said by smith family loft something about breeding "willy nilly",which i gather is throwing the birds in and letting them mate however they want.my comment was directed at that in the way that dwayne rail does just that with the exception he insures a cross breeding of so many cocks and hens in a particular breeding room.with this system he has won many races and awards and considered the top flyer in his area and has been for awhile.that was what my comment was directed to.sorry.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> i put this response in the wrong thread.sorry,i wasnt replying to the boxes.somehow i thought i was replying to how to put birds together to raise winners.....guess this was in the wrong place.
> 
> page 1 it was said by smith family loft something about breeding "willy nilly",which i gather is throwing the birds in and letting them mate however they want.my comment was directed at that in the way that dwayne rail does just that with the exception he insures a cross breeding of so many cocks and hens in a particular breeding room.with this system he has won many races and awards and considered the top flyer in his area and has been for awhile.that was what my comment was directed to.sorry.


LOL........I've forgive you THIS TIME!!


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