# Advantages/Disadvantages?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Are there really advantages or disadvantages in the sport? Such as loft location, living on the short/long end, living on the east side of the wind, or flying a mob? Or there none at all and just plain skills and a little luck?


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

having great birds is a huge advantage. Someone else having great birds is a huge disadvantage.

Other than that … all a matter of opinion.

edit; Thought I would add that this was intended as a bit of humor mixed with fact. Based on 4 years of club results that I looked at, short end, long end, and wind didn't seem to play a factor as much as bird health, breeding pairs, and the like.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If you are 17 mi short and way off he line of flight you are not going to win, well that is under 300. On the 400 and up I can win at the club level but with the combine I am over 100 mi short and the best I have ever done is 4 th place. 

In the last race of the PT clasic last year Air Baby beat Warren and his SFL bird, and he is over 100 mi long from me. You can have great birds but other people have great birds also.

It sucks to be on the short end of such a larg combine. I fly with the Husker Hawkeye combine. The reason I say a larg combine is that it is over 120 mi deep and allmost 300 mi wide.

So if any one has any ideas on how to win a short race I am all ears. If there is a certian strain of sprint birds I should get, or a different way to train. At this point I will try any thing as I would love to win a short race.
Dave


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Just My Opinion--But
You need to be "sure" you have Racing Pigeons----NOT Homing Pigeons.
And yes some bloodlines are better Sprinters than others.
Then Motavation -Reason to come home--plays a BIG part.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

The closest clubs to me are dominated by the short end guys, maybe they do have the best birds. All the other club members claim its thier location. If I win a race, being this will be my first year, it will be credited to position. I am the shortest route in my combine by 15 miles now, half of the birds in the race should fly over my loft or real near it.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

Winds play a huge factor into short and long end advantages. I figured that would be pretty common knowledge.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The wind has alot to do with race results....Lets say everyone in a ten member club are All-American flyers....It`s common knowledge who will win when the wind is out of the north,the west etc....If all these ten guys are that GOOD,it will be the wind who says who wins,and who is last....The race results probally will be very close...Take a look at the GHC results down in Flordia...There`s 50 or more All-American lofts there....You lose a race by 1 minute 35 seconds...You are in 110th place.....Now 1 min 35 seconds is pretty good results as time goes,but 110th place is not that good....Alamo


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

And we see the danger of only looking at a subset of data! My info is only relative to the local club and that is a pretty small number of folks in a largish area. It would be interesting to see some real number crunching on things like wind speed, direction, distances and the rest done by the AU/IF.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I think it would be naive to disregard the factoring of the wind in the races. Everyone knows that a head wind can have adverse effects on how a race is played out. And races with heavy head winds would fall under the "smash race" category. Having said that, the only way to combat the wind factor is to have the right type of bird to handle said winds. Which brings the conversation back to "luck." For example, it might be "luck" that determines the wind to blow in a certain direction, thus creating a slight "advantage."


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I would say living on a hill and/or in a wide open space gives you an advantage, versus living in an area surrounded by trees. The hill would be a better landmark for the bird and the lack of trees would protect you a little more from coopers and sharp shins.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I think wind , location , luck all have some inpact on a race, but how you set your birds up for a race is just as important. I've found that a bird, hen or a cock will rise to the top flying to eggs better than any other system I've used. They need to be healthy first , worm before races start, then a canker treatment, then a respitory treatment .
Next train to 50 miles , 1st race 100, fly all birds , then loft fly only during the week let the birds tell you how they feel and save your gas no road training , these are old birds they know the way home allready. Race all birds every race out to 300 miles then be picky. Let them mate up during the week and rotate who gets eggs so you always have someone flying to a nest of eggs or fake eggs. When loft flying it helps to have many take off's during the day. The more the better if builds power in the muscle when taking off. My birds got to goof off all day today take a bath , fly and flirt! and be happy. Friday or Saturday or Sunday which ever day we can race all 54 of my birds will be in a 274 mile race form Ames Iowa to get home to Spooner WI. My birds have flown two races , one 178, and one 198 miles so far they got 6th through 10th first race and 1st by 7 minutes, and 7th, 8th, and 9th, second race. The guy who took 1 through 5 and 2,3,4,5 is one of the best flers in the midwest. In mine mind I must be doing something right.
As far as sprinters go I 've heard VanReet's are killer but very high strung. I don't have any eather


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

I have also heard that SVRs are great sprinters...Frank McLaughlin has them here in the USA. I am going to look through my records and compile some data as far as birds shipped per city, the conditions they flew in etc to see if we can figure out any 'advantages' per say...stay tuned.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Ok, well looking through the yearbooks from 1997-2005 which was when I was flying back home this is what I saw. On calm races it was really a case of 'luck' or random, couldn't be predicted, long/short/mob/or small team flyer all won calm races at an even rate. True tail wind races, when a long loft was flying they seemed to have an advantage, otherwise it was again up in the air as most of the lofts were +/- 8 survey miles in distance. Headwind races one loft seemed to do the best, he just so happened to have more of the older 'strains' and had been flying for the longest, probably had the best all around birds in the region. Smash races the mob flyers seemed to do better, which makes sense the more you send the better chance you have of getting at least 1 good one. Now it also got pretty predictable with wind shifts, or what I call directional tail winds. In the combine we would span about 150 miles west to east on the front, but still all on about equal footing survey wise, except for a few longer flyers but they didn't fly regularly. So, a true tail wind was directly out of the south and it was a free for all in those races. Now a wind out of the SW/SSW/WSW favored 2 guys furthest to the east in the combine, and they won the majority of those races. A SE/SSE/ESE wind favored the guys to the farthest west, which was one guy and he was also the mob flier in the group, he won most of those races. So in my situation you could take a pretty good guess on race day depending on winds who had the best shot or if it was a free for all. My favorite days were the free for alls, because guys would be calling about birds, when did you get yours etc etc and of course nobody ever told the truth, it was hilarious. Biggest thing was we all had fun though.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

klondike goldie said:


> An advantage would be to have very healthy, motivated, rested widowhood birds that love their mate and love their loft, birds that have been fed according to race distance and expected conditions along the route,birds that will trap lightning fast upon arrival at the loft. A disadvantage would be Birds that are not healthy, not motivated, not rested,birds that are overcrowded, aren't fed properly, and wont trap.


I like your answer, simple and true. I dont think you will have any arguements either.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

klondike goldie said:


> An advantage would be to have very healthy, motivated, rested widowhood birds that love their mate and love their loft, birds that have been fed according to race distance and expected conditions along the route,birds that will trap lightning fast upon arrival at the loft. A disadvantage would be Birds that are not healthy, not motivated, not rested,birds that are overcrowded, aren't fed properly, and wont trap.


*fed according to race distance*

Can you expand on this statement?


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

A good rule of thumb is to feed the birds 24 hours before the time you'd expect them home the following day. Now there are also a lot of other factors to include how heavy the feed is, etc.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Crazypete I feel you. We fly in Minnesota from Iowa so south to north. Tail wind races I already know I'm going to lose because the larger flocks fly to Town (twincities) or Wisconsin.....way into Wisconsin. The bigger the flock The faster they fly. On the last 2 100 races by birds came from the north with a east and west wind. Wind plays a major factor in the federation that we race in but that's pigeon racing. Mob flying doesn't necessarily mean you will win but a better chance if the wind doesn't blow your way. Luck and form are almost the same thing in pigeons. U get form u might get lucky. U get lucky u might get form.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I have a really good mentor he has been flying birds for 30 yrs. We do the meds befor training and then work the birds hard. He always tells me the birds are in perfect form, all I have to do is move 40 mi west so I would be closer to the line of flight and I would win. Oh well thats racing.
Dave


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Good food, water, all the freedom they won't, not being overcrowded, and a bird that is there on every race no matter what the wind direction, and does not have to win them all,
a small team to me flies better to me then a large team.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

koukoukou said:


> Crazypete I feel you. We fly in Minnesota from Iowa so south to north. Tail wind races I already know I'm going to lose because the larger flocks fly to Town (twincities) or Wisconsin.....way into Wisconsin. .


 You got me interested when you said "Way into Wisconsin" Why do you think we have an advantage over the twin city guys? Where do you live? We are up around Spooner and there are some new guys flying that live further north and east than us. A few all the way to UP Michigan .I was always told the twin cities guy have the edge their birds have to fly straight up hwy 35 , one big mob, they split up to go home after their are in the city. Eau Claire and Menomonie birds need to fly north east east and our birds need to split the difference and fly right in the middle of birds going both ways . From north woods Iowa all the birds need to break at the release or they won't win a thing.We might have 130 birds total out of 1000 federations birds and I don't know the breakdown for the other clubs. Also, can you help me out with this next ? who is HUGO LOFT ? and do you know who is flying under Break a Way loft? They seam to have a good plan .I think break a way is Mr Altoff because he is 43 miles shorter than me and that puts him somewere near clear lake wi. Im flying under the kirkwood family loft name just so you know. Check out the race resultes at the Heartland Racing Pigeon Federation wed site. Talk to you soon, Eric K


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Hey Eric nice to meet ya last year i flew under mastagoldloft and this year i fly under Kou Xiong. Hugo is Vince Xiong and he Flys from Hugo Mn. I am in CottageGrove Mn. Altoff is breakaway loft. This is my 3rd year flying ybs and 2nd obs. Last year I had the same amount of obs as this year about 15 but not the same 1's. The only advantage is the training route for guys in the twincities. That only amounts to about 8 of 12 lofts who can use that 35 route everyone else can't or would have to drive quite a distance to reach 35 so they don't. So that's 12 lofts from mn out of 52 which most of the 52 are spread out in Wisconsin. I am at 98miles for the 100 and is 25miles short of Hugo. I think my problem is I'm new to obs and haven't built a legitimate dependable team but it's in the process.. To train not to train to fly widowhood or natural. But I won a federation race last year flying to the perch so I'm happy it's hard to win a federation race. Let the winds blow baby let it blow also we need you guys to fly ybs with us this year


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Nich to meet you too. Thanks for the info. I'm still trying to figure out all in in's and out's of this racing stuff. I see your point as to the guys in the middle like Hugo and Altoff have an advantage ,they both have some overfly on you too, and it helps them that they both have many birds in each race.Altoff beat my bird last week by 13.37 minutes , but I've got 43 miles more to fly than him.
Congrats on you win last year, it helps to get the first one under your belt . I have one club win last year too in OBs from Ames Iowa, 274 miles. But it was only 26th in the federation. I got a club win last week from Clearlake Iowa but the federation has not posted the resultes yet. Are you ready for Mondays race its going to be a tough one with Northeast winds 10 to 15mph all the way . that should slow the birds down a bit and that might help me up here. I'm going to fly 3/4 of my birds and hold the rest for the 400 next week. As to fly YBs with you most guys in the club think it would be too much to ask for the YBs to have to come this far on their own, but I keep trying to get them to change their minds. Many of our club only flys YBs and want the best outcome for themselves and don't care about the federation. I think it would be better to have one Federation win over many club wins. But thats just me.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Yes I've been training them this past week so we will see if it helps. I think I will probably ship 3-4 because with the north winds it can turn into a 6-7 or even 8 hrs on the wing at my distance and that's what I'll need from them next week at the 300 not the 200. Yes federation wins are great that's the ultimate test. How long have you raced?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> Are there really advantages or disadvantages in the sport? Such as loft location, living on the short/long end, living on the east side of the wind, or flying a mob? Or there none at all and just plain skills and a little luck?


 All of the above I suspect. I don't know of any "good" fancier that does not believe that loft design, loft location, wind direction on race day, plays some sort of role on race day. This is one of the prime reasons why the concept of a One Loft race was developed.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> All of the above I suspect. I don't know of any "good" fancier that does not believe that loft design, loft location, wind direction on race day, plays some sort of role on race day. This is one of the prime reasons why the concept of a One Loft race was developed.


Amen! They eliminate a lot of the variable factors.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

koukoukou said:


> Yes I've been training them this past week so we will see if it helps. I think I will probably ship 3-4 because with the north winds it can turn into a 6-7 or even 8 hrs on the wing at my distance and that's what I'll need from them next week at the 300 not the 200. Yes federation wins are great that's the ultimate test. How long have you raced?


Two YBs and this is my second OB season.
For me is will be a 275miles this week and about 400 next week. My best hen just layed her second egg today so in two week there is another 300. She was club first last year same race station, same nest conditions. Hope the wind will be better then like a SSW.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> All of the above I suspect. I don't know of any "good" fancier that does not believe that loft design, loft location, wind direction on race day, plays some sort of role on race day. This is one of the prime reasons why the concept of a One Loft race was developed.


All very true . That's what makes it so much fun ,trying to figure all this out, and when it doesn't go your way to be the first guy to shake the winners hand and congradulate him for a job well done.
I look forward to some one loft races in the future for myself but for now I need to find out which birds will produce for such an event, and club racing is the only way I can let the cream rise to the top.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

One loft racing is fun if you win or not. It has a lot to do with "luck" and a few good birds I sent a 9 out to onelofts and 4 to the goldband this year. Yb racing is a lot of work if you want to win......


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Yes I'm not saying it isn't fun but I enjoy the whole spectrum of the sport and try to be involved in every aspect.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

One loft racing tests the birds. Local racing tests the birds and the handler!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

RodSD said:


> One loft racing tests the birds. Local racing tests the birds and the handler!


And the loft design, and loft location, and the various management practices.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I always jokingly say to the guys who fly large teams who also live on the short end that one day, I will move into their neighborhoods and fly my own mob. Much to their chagrin, they say it is a bad idea to do that. Yup, sure.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

how many birds do you think is a mob? I also have a good idea who you are talking about too.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I mean it all in good fun only. Sixty or more birds is what I consider a mob.


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

What about the mob flier on the long end? Don't you think they have the advantage also.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

Yup, like the fed we fly with a tail wind and 70 birds on the longend 25 on the drop yikes!


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