# White Homing Pigeon Businesses??



## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Does anyone on here have any experience in the ceremonial type business using white homing pigeons? I'm considering breeding a few to see how I do with wedding services. Any help or advice would be much appreciated!


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

The National White Dove Release Society is where you should start. They are active and offer a lot of help to members. They have a yahoo group that is very active, too.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I have a small white dove release business, have been doing it for about 5 years.There have been post on this site about starting a release business,look for them.I would suggest the book White Pigeons-the color of Money-its not very expensive but has good basic info.If you dont have birds now find out all you can before you get involved. Jeff


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

I will look into that. Thanks! Have you benefitted from doing it? Im not looking to get rich, just think its a nice touch to a wedding and no one around my area offers it


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Make sure you get quility white racers to start with, we have people on this site with white racers, or you could PM Denis Kuhn he is a member of this site he also has a web site. Whiteracers.com he has white birds that win races.
Dave


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

I already have homers but am looking at getting a couple pair of whites. One of the pair is of the disney bloodline. I mainly want to have a profitable side business just to buy more birds of different breeds and build a bigger loft.


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## Coocooloft (Apr 20, 2012)

i know a guy in maryland who has pure disney white homers,their bands are even from the disney loft


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Is he selling them? Ive only mentioned the idea and with all the connections i have in my area there seems to be quite an interest.


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## Coocooloft (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes he is ,he always have young birds


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Do you have any contact info for him?


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Well to say I have benefited from it could be a stretch. I have racing homers and was looking for a way to get a little feed money.I dont have a lot of whites around 17 flyers right now.I have made about $700 this year.Thats with no advertising or promotion.I have to turn down some funerals because I work during the weekday and many funerals are then.I also do some events for free.If I feel its the right thing to do.I would say I benefit in the look on peoples faces when I do a release.And I always get questions about the birds which is a good thing too.In my case its more of a hobby and not a business.There is a guy in my club who is retired and has 3 lofts and near 100 white birds and does very good in regards to money.But he also hires people to do the events that he cant get to.So I will say what I have said before.....Lots of birds=lots of money=lots of work=lots of headaches.Not many birds=less of the above including MONEY. Jeff


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I sold a white pigeon to a guy in Michigan that has a release business and he told me that he has contracts with all the funeral homes in his area. Once one home started to offer his service they all started to do it because it was really liked so he get payed every month for supplying the birds.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Well either way thats a benefit. Im not looking to make a fortune 500 business but if i do enough to support my pigeon addiction and get the wife off my back ill be plenty happy. With my schedule i could do funerals but i wont do that. The guy that gave me my first 10 homers does funerals and out of respect i couldnt even think of doing that. I plan on sticking to weekend type events though.


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

I have whites. love them! I used a few of mine in a bicentennial parade. they were released by a Sunday school class off of Noah's Ark. it was cute. I have proven pairs if interested. plus I'll have a ton this spring. good luck.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Country84 said:


> I already have homers but am looking at getting a couple pair of whites. One of the pair is of the disney bloodline. I mainly want to have a profitable side business just to buy more birds of different breeds and build a bigger loft.


I might have two babies that are white, breed from two grizzles that could be for sale .They are banded and in no way will they always produce all white pigeons, but the up side is that they are on the top of the list as far as racing and homing ability . I just banded them last week end. Was going to keep them for future breeders.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm kind of working on this "business" as well. Right now I have 8 pairs however for the next couple of years I just want to develop a stock of white racers that can fly home consistently before I even attempt to start doing releases. It's kind of just a mini-project I'm working on to get good results from white racers.

I hope to breed at least 30 white racing pigeon YB's in 2013. Of the 30, I'll select the best one or two birds to put into the breeding loft. Start eliminating the breeders whose young do not perform or home well and build the nucleus around the birds that do. 

I don't plan to make big bucks from them, maybe just enough to cover the costs for my racing pigeons that I'll be flying in races.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

ERIC K said:


> I might have two babies that are white, breed from two grizzles that could be for sale .They are banded and in no way will they always produce all white pigeons, but the up side is that they are on the top of the list as far as racing and homing ability . I just banded them last week end. Was going to keep them for future breeders.


The guy that gave me my first 10 gave me 2 pair of grizzles and told me that those 2 pair had a good chance that they would produce 1 white in each clutch, but may not happen every time. Thats how he got some of the whites that he uses for his funeral business. But im thinking my best bet is to go ahead and invest in a couple pair of pure whites to establish a good stock.



Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> I'm kind of working on this "business" as well. Right now I have 8 pairs however for the next couple of years I just want to develop a stock of white racers that can fly home consistently before I even attempt to start doing releases. It's kind of just a mini-project I'm working on to get good results from white racers.
> 
> I hope to breed at least 30 white racing pigeon YB's in 2013. Of the 30, I'll select the best one or two birds to put into the breeding loft. Start eliminating the breeders whose young do not perform or home well and build the nucleus around the birds that do.
> 
> I don't plan to make big bucks from them, maybe just enough to cover the costs for my racing pigeons that I'll be flying in races.


Thats a good plan to not get too ahead of yourself, ironically it almost feels like thats what im doing haha. I am planning to do my friends sisters wedding in June, if I dont have any trained by then though its not a big deal. I'm not charging her and she said she would spread it around when I'm ready to get started. She does those Lia Sophia jewelry parties so she knows lots of girls, most of which are engaged. and my friend's wife is in charge of the "Miss Roanoke" and "Miss Virginia" beauty pageants, I also have connections with wedding planners and several very popular wedding venues in the area. Thats something you should do as well, just get out there and make friends and see where it leads you.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

I have also decided when this gets going, Since I have gotten into pigeons In memory of my father who passed back in October, I'm going to allocate portions of my earnings to help in my community to folks that are battling cancer. I could donate to cancer foundations, however I believe there is already a cure, but there is too much to be made for them in chemo and radiation. I would much rather see my money go to helping people that already have cancer improve their quality of life and I believe that's what my dad would want me to do.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah thats a good idea! The more connections you have the better your business would run. Just advertise on local online sites (craigslist, etc) and talk to wedding planners and what not and you should do fine!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Country84 said:


> Does anyone on here have any experience in the ceremonial type business using white homing pigeons? I'm considering breeding a few to see how I do with wedding services. Any help or advice would be much appreciated!


 I have done memorial services, but I didn't use white pigeons. Everyone seems to be hung up on white, but I have yet to find a rule book which states that pigeons used in some kind of memorial service must be white. 

I read where people are thinking about getting into the "Dove Release" business, where it is obvious, they are focused on the pigeons, instead of the actual needs and wants of clients and customers. Believe me, the easiest thing will be to come up with baskets of pigeons. The hard part is coming up with baskets full of paying clients and then having the staff and equipment to be able to service these clients in such as way, that they would recommend to their friends.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Country84 said:


> I have also decided when this gets going, Since I have gotten into pigeons In memory of my father who passed back in October, I'm going to allocate portions of my earnings to help in my community to folks that are battling cancer. I could donate to cancer foundations, however I believe there is already a cure, but there is too much to be made for them in chemo and radiation. I would much rather see my money go to helping people that already have cancer improve their quality of life and I believe that's what my dad would want me to do.


Don't forget a nice big fat slice for local, state and federal taxes, including your 15% contribution to social security. Then there is the yellow pages, liability insurance, health insurance, fees to attorneys and CPA's, yellow pages, and various advertising media etc. If one has never run a small business, then they are often very surprised as to how many other entities will be there with their hands out. 

Are you going to operate as a sole proprietor or will you form a LLC ? If you can figure out how to turn it into a successful business, then I would franchise it as a turn key system, that way you can do numerous weddings or memorials every single day somewhere, and won't be dependent on the local weather.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Don't forget a nice big fat slice for local, state and federal taxes, including your 15% contribution to social security. Then there is the yellow pages, liability insurance, health insurance, fees to attorneys and CPA's, yellow pages, and various advertising media etc. If one has never run a small business, then they are often very surprised as to how many other entities will be there with their hands out.
> 
> Are you going to operate as a sole proprietor or will you form a LLC ? If you can figure out how to turn it into a successful business, then I would franchise it as a turn key system, that way you can do numerous weddings or memorials every single day somewhere, and won't be dependent on the local weather.


Taxes are a given, unless I didn't claim it and did not operate as a "business" but I plan on doing that just to be legal. Yellow pages arent needed as I'm doing my advertising on Facebook, I may use the phone book later but a decent ad in there is usually around 2,000 and most people dont even use phone books anymore. In VA health insurance is not required. I am waiting on a call back from my attorney regarding liability insurance also. 
As far as corporational concerns go, I will more than likely operate as a sole proprietor unless it completely blows up and I get way overwhelmed then i may branch out, however I have considered LLC status just to cover my rear end in the event that something does happen. Talking with the wedding planners I know, I am predicting that I could comfortably handle 5 to 7 weddings per day on the weekends and 2 to 4 during the week with my second shift schedule working to my advantage, as they have agreed that they could meet me the day of the event and obtain the requested birds that are to be used, grab my baskets for me and meet me the next day to return them. Thats another investment as well, I considered building several of my own baskets but a couple may not be enough so I'm positive I'll have to buy several more.


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

here's two grizzles from a two grizzle mating, got them from josepe, these are racing birds i'll be adding to my whites to strengthen my recessive whites


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Very nice. Not a whole lot of grizzle in there lol. Ive got 2 pair that will supposedly throw a couple whites every season...we shall see!


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Dan,
They sure didn't griizle up like I thought they would.I kept the round after them to race as yearlings this year.The hen looks like those and the cock has a nice grizzle pattern.I think both of yours may be Hens?These are their parents:


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Country84 said:


> Taxes are a given, unless I didn't claim it and did not operate as a "business" but I plan on doing that just to be legal. Yellow pages arent needed as I'm doing my advertising on Facebook, I may use the phone book later but a decent ad in there is usually around 2,000 and most people dont even use phone books anymore. In VA health insurance is not required. I am waiting on a call back from my attorney regarding liability insurance also.
> As far as corporational concerns go, I will more than likely operate as a sole proprietor unless it completely blows up and I get way overwhelmed then i may branch out, however I have considered LLC status just to cover my rear end in the event that something does happen. Talking with the wedding planners I know, I am predicting that I could comfortably handle 5 to 7 weddings per day on the weekends and 2 to 4 during the week with my second shift schedule working to my advantage, *as they have agreed that they could meet me the day of the event and obtain the requested birds that are to be used, grab my baskets for me and meet me the next day to return them. * Thats another investment as well, I considered building several of my own baskets but a couple may not be enough so I'm positive I'll have to buy several more.


 If all one is doing is delivering crates with pigeons in them, there is not a whole lot of value added. To me it sounds like a professional photographer who would show up on the morning of the wedding and provide the couple a camera and some quick instructions. Dropping off a crate of birds to a wedding planner, would be like asking them to do my job. 

Reminds me of the "service" that was provided to a local funeral home. The Funeral Director explained how "Doves" were delivered in a brown paper bag, I thought to myself, how cheap. No wonder the fancier only earned a few dollars for this "service". 

Might be something to consider as you draw up your business plan. I also would question how many times a day the phone will ring as a result of FB advertising. I would suspect that a professional service would have a listing in the phone book, as well as a web site. 

A professionally produced DVD explaining and demonstrating your service would be a real plus I would think. The difference between dropping off a crate of birds, and providing a professional service which creates a life time of memories, can be a difference worth many hundreds of additional dollars. A good marketing plan, could involve things such multi-color glossy brochures, with some fantastic photos and testimonials. 

Good luck with your venture. I suspect, if we lived in the same city, and were competitors in this business, I would be charging two or three times what you would charge for all 7 weddings, but that would be my fee, to have a single professionally attired and trained staff member attend their ceremony, and at the appropriate time, coordinate their own custom "Dove Release". As my competitors would be renting crates, and I would be providing a breath taking experience for the couple and their guests on their very special day.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Well, i didnt really think about it that way, i will be changing my plans around, but since ive never done this before and never attended an event that included it other than me releasing the white homer for my dads funeral service, im kind of shooting in the dark so i definitely appreciate your advice! Ive actually already spoke to a friend about a DVD that i could play at bridal shows and such and one to hand out. Just out of curiosity what would your fee be for this type of coordinated event? And do you charge per bird? And as far as a website that is already in the works. And for brochures ill call my buddy that owns a print/sign shop. But first thing i still need to get my birds haha.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Country84 said:


> Well, i didnt really think about it that way, i will be changing my plans around, but since ive never done this before and never attended an event that included it other than me releasing the white homer for my dads funeral service, im kind of shooting in the dark so i definitely appreciate your advice! Ive actually already spoke to a friend about a DVD that i could play at bridal shows and such and one to hand out. *Just out of curiosity what would your fee be for this type of coordinated event?* And do you charge per bird? And as far as a website that is already in the works. And for brochures ill call my buddy that owns a print/sign shop. But first thing i still need to get my birds haha.


 I was surprised at what the top end fees are for a top of the line "Dove Release". Consider that in the good ole days, people would spend $5000 for pictures. Of course digital cameras have killed that business. 

The fee is what the market will bear. Back in tim buck too, where the reception is in a fire hall, well.....I wouldn't even offer such a service in that kind of market. Determining the needs and wants of your particular market is what is important. In some markets $300 might be at the top end, where in other markets, that would be at very low end. My friend relayed a story to me where he was at a friends wedding where they paid $1200 for apparently a service which impressed the folks attending. With the "average" wedding cost of between $25,000 and $27,000 there just might be opportunity to get a share of that for someone in the right market, that knows how to market their service. 

I would imagine having a number of packages, for various price points. Going to take an hour or so to explain your service and get a contract signed. Then numerous phone calls before big day. Then on the wedding day, things do not always go as planned. I don't see how the "Dove Release Coordinator" can effectively preform the service without being there a few hours at least. So, there are hours of selling time, time at the job, plus overhead. Plus I don't know how one will do more then couple of weddings a day, and even at that, it will be a long day. And on days that it rains, regardless of how many hours you have in planning the big day, you could have many hundreds in pay just vanish because you can't preform the service. 

Rather then doing 5 to 7 a day, I would imagine that doing 5 a week could end up being a good week. I looked at some numbers briefly, and in my mind one would need $350 per event and up. And you would need to selling and preforming these events every day. And even at those level of fees, I suspect most would not earn enough to cover their personal living expenses. 

You have a lot of homework to do.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I never leave my birds with anybody!I have too much involved and respect for them to do that.I bring my birds to the event and stay until they are released.I offer to help in any way I can.I have heard to many horror stories from people about birds being dropped off and not coming out of the basket and such.One of the first weddings I did at a wedding venue the lady said she found the birds in a box at the front door the day of the wedding.I am now the preferred white dove release vender for that location. Jeff


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I was surprised at what the top end fees are for a top of the line "Dove Release". Consider that in the good ole days, people would spend $5000 for pictures. Of course digital cameras have killed that business.
> 
> The fee is what the market will bear. Back in tim buck too, where the reception is in a fire hall, well.....I wouldn't even offer such a service in that kind of market. Determining the needs and wants of your particular market is what is important. In some markets $300 might be at the top end, where in other markets, that would be at very low end. My friend relayed a story to me where he was at a friends wedding where they paid $1200 for apparently a service which impressed the folks attending. With the "average" wedding cost of between $25,000 and $27,000 there just might be opportunity to get a share of that for someone in the right market, that knows how to market their service.
> 
> ...


My next question may seem dumb but I'm going to ask it anyways, It's the wedding planner/coordinators job to work in what the bride and groom wants and makes it happen and makes an allotted time to do each thing. My question is, how are you actively and directly involved with this, that would be like the DJ showing up, the wedding coordinator giving them a list of songs to play at a specific time and the DJ saying, "I'm not going to play that song at that time, this one would be better." Im just not sure what you mean that you are personally there, in professional atire, for every event. What do you do during that time? The bride and groom would be the ones releasing the pigeons, not myself. I dont mean to sound rude, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean. Other than to give proper handling instructions there doesnt seem to me to be a great need to be there throughout the whole thing. I'm not terribly concerned with money, im not buying 10,000 dollar birds and I already have a full time job making 32 an hour, so this will be just a side thing for me, and as I stated before, a way to help folks in my area struggling with cancer. Not a global corporation.
At my fathers funeral, the owner of the white pigeon wasn't present, he lives over 2 hours away...Nothing would have been different if he had been standing there the whole time other than the fact that he would have just been there.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

luckyloft said:


> I never leave my birds with anybody!I have too much involved and respect for them to do that.I bring my birds to the event and stay until they are released.I offer to help in any way I can.I have heard to many horror stories from people about birds being dropped off and not coming out of the basket and such.One of the first weddings I did at a wedding venue the lady said *she found the birds in a box at the front door the day of the wedding.*I am now the preferred white dove release vender for that location. Jeff


Thats horrible! I would never do that. And what do you typically charge per event?


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

At every event I have done I have been the one giving instructions to the bride and groom.The day of the event I get there about 30 min before and go over how to hold the birds with the bride and groom, or if they release out of my heart shaped basket I show them how to do that.I also do the same at a funeral.Then yes I just wait until its time for the birds.Then I bring the birds to the participants and let them do their thing.Here is my website...............
www.luckyloftwdr.webs.com
Jeff


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I would rather do less dove releases than to let strangers release the birds. 

You can just charge extra for your presence to be at the event. For example, if you were originally going to charge $125 to release 2 birds, you could charge $150. The extra $25 can cover your fuel costs and your time costs. For any additional bird over 2, charge an extra $10 or $15. 

You could give better offers to people that don't have that much money. Your fuel/time cost would still be covered in the price.

If you do the releases yourself and charge fairly, there is a good chance you might get more business through better customer service.

If you get an offer to do a release outside of your 30-40 mile radius, you can charge the person per every mile you drive. 

We have kilometers in Canada so an example would be:

The price for me to come to the location and help the participants release the birds would be included in the initial price if the location of the event is located within 40 kilometers of my house. Mainly, the radius would cover Abbotsford (my city), Chilliwack, Mission, Aldergrove, and Langley. 

Services in Surrey and Vancouver which are the two largest cities in British Columbia (Abbotsford is 3rd), would cost an additional $0.50 were kilometer travelled. So if the service was 20 kilometers away from my 40 kilometer radius, I would charge an additional $10. 


The $0.50 additional price per kilometer is not final. It may change to whatever the price of gas is at the time of the release. I haven't really calculated that part yet. It might be more because I'll be losing time driving further into larger cities (lots of traffic) and might be losing fuel money while idling in traffic so I might charge more for everything outside of my radius. 

But basically, I want to have the contract with the wedding planners/funeral homes in the entire area and have my own personal clients through advertising on Facebook, craigslist, other online advertising websites, my own website, business cards, brochures, CDS (I can get 1 DVD made for $1.00 through a connection of mine), newspapers, bulletin boards, and customers that refer me. 

As far as I know, there is 1 average release business in the area and 1 not so good business. But no one ever hears about them. If I give customers a better deal and give them a better experience, I'm sure I can dominate the whole lower mainland BC in releases and not let any competition rise up. It's not personal, its business - Donald Trump


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Hey thanks Jeff, that helps a bunch! How much do those heart baskets usually run? I couldnt really think of any reason I should be there the whole time, other than giving proper handling instructions and maybe a few pictures for my web page. But thanks again!


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> I would rather do less dove releases than to let strangers release the birds.
> 
> You can just charge extra for your presence to be at the event. For example, if you were originally going to charge $125 to release 2 birds, you could charge $150. The extra $25 can cover your fuel costs and your time costs. For any additional bird over 2, charge an extra $10 or $15.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what I was thinking in regards to pricing fairly. I want to give a perfect extra touch to their special day and I want them to know that I'm not out to rip them off like most others in the wedding business. I'm not there to make a killing, I'm there to make a difference in their day, and also in someone elses for that dear reason I wish to do this in the first place. I'm not saying that I wouldnt like to make money off of it, but if its only a few bucks and my expenses are covered then thats fine with me. Not growing a globally dominating money hungry greed driven multi billion dollar corporation(WalMart)


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## Chocolate Head (May 18, 2009)

*Nwdrs*

While Warren raises real considerations, my interpretation of your original post is that you are looking to do releases part-time to finance your hobby and maybe make some side money. If I am correct you don't need to be concerned with health insurance and some of the other overhead mentioned. HOWEVER, there is equipment and supplies you will need (such as feed, fuel and time for training, medications, and other supplies related to raising pigeons). I don't forsee you ever making a living by doing releases, but you can make a nice side income. If you account for every penny and time, you will likely break even if you are doing releases regularly. That may work for you if you enjoy the service you provide and don't need the time to do other things. 

Where I do agree with Warren is that you will be running a business and need to know how to do that. The service you are providing means a lot to your customers, which is mostly weddings and funerals. You need to be professional and dress the part. Be respectful to their event/ceremony. You need to determine if there is a market for this in your area and how to effectively advertise. Craigslist and Facebook help, but florists, bakeries, funeral directors and wedding planners are the best. Also, you could do like I have and pay for a space at a bridal show. You will be surprised with the interest. Most people don't know this service exists and have to be educated on the process. Set up a nice display with a couple of birds in pretty cages. 

I strongly suggest you join the National White Dove Release Society Yahoo Group, which was mentioned earlier in this post. It's free and you can eventually join the club as a paying member. You will get real answers from professionals who are doing releases and not speculating. As a paying member, you will be able to purchase DVD's and brochures to promote your business. The club pays for the set-up of these items and you can order in small quantities that you would otherwise not be able to do on your own. There is strength in numbers. While this is a great site, there is a resource much more specific to what you are doing. Feel free to PM me if I can help you in any other way.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh and for your DVD get it made, and then buy labels and DVD-R's and make them yourself to hand out....its a lot cheaper that way! haha


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Hey you never know! You can make an enterprise out of it and sell franchises, offer courses on proper dove release adequate, and branch out. If you can make a living off of racing pigeons and doing dove releases, that would be a dream come true for a pigeon fancier. Flying pigeons for a living, would be great everyday. 

But as of right now, like you mentioned its just going to be a side business to cover costs, mainly for my racing pigeons which is what I'm trying to work on more (breed one loft quality birds for races). 

So if the dove releases could cover their own costs and the racing costs, I'd be a pretty happy guy.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Chocolate Head said:


> While Warren raises real considerations, my interpretation of your original post is that you are looking to do releases part-time to finance your hobby and maybe make some side money. If I am correct you don't need to be concerned with health insurance and some of the other overhead mentioned. HOWEVER, there is equipment and supplies you will need (such as feed, fuel and time for training, medications, and other supplies related to raising pigeons). I don't forsee you ever making a living by doing releases, but you can make a nice side income. If you account for every penny and time, you will likely break even if you are doing releases regularly. That may work for you if you enjoy the service you provide and don't need the time to do other things.
> 
> Where I do agree with Warren is that you will be running a business and need to know how to do that. The service you are providing means a lot to your customers, which is mostly weddings and funerals. You need to be professional and dress the part. Be respectful to their event/ceremony. You need to determine if there is a market for this in your area and how to effectively advertise. Craigslist and Facebook help, but florists, bakeries, funeral directors and wedding planners are the best. Also, you could do like I have and pay for a space at a bridal show. You will be surprised with the interest. Most people don't know this service exists and have to be educated on the process. Set up a nice display with a couple of birds in pretty cages.
> 
> I strongly suggest you join the National White Dove Release Society Yahoo Group, which was mentioned earlier in this post. It's free and you can eventually join the club as a paying member. You will get real answers from professionals who are doing releases and not speculating. As a paying member, you will be able to purchase DVD's and brochures to promote your business. The club pays for the set-up of these items and you can order in small quantities that you would otherwise not be able to do on your own. There is strength in numbers. While this is a great site, there is a resource much more specific to what you are doing. Feel free to PM me if I can help you in any other way.


Thanks for your reply and i believe you pretty much understand what im trying to achieve here. Im not worried about any customer service abilities, as i listen well and am courteous regardless. Im aware of my costs and i actually did look into the dove release society and am planning on full membership very soon. Ive spoken with the property owner of the venue my wife and i used for our wedding and he said he would help any way he could. He also gave me contact info for local bridal shows, the lady that coordinates them so i could get a booth. I thank you for your advice and im excited to begin this in my area!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Country84 said:


> My next question may seem dumb but I'm going to ask it anyways, It's the wedding planner/coordinators job to work in what the bride and groom wants and makes it happen and makes an allotted time to do each thing. My question is, how are you actively and directly involved with this, that would be like the DJ showing up, the wedding coordinator giving them a list of songs to play at a specific time and the DJ saying, "I'm not going to play that song at that time, this one would be better." Im just not sure what you mean that you are personally there, in professional atire, for every event. What do you do during that time? The bride and groom would be the ones releasing the pigeons, not myself. * I dont mean to sound rude, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean. Other than to give proper handling instructions there doesnt seem to me to be a great need to be there throughout the whole thing. I'm not terribly concerned with money, im not buying 10,000 dollar birds and I already have a full time job making 32 an hour, so this will be just a side thing for me, and as I stated before, a way to help folks in my area struggling with cancer. Not a global corporation.*
> At my fathers funeral, the owner of the white pigeon wasn't present, he lives over 2 hours away...Nothing would have been different if he had been standing there the whole time other than the fact that he would have just been there.


 If you don't understand what I mean, and if the idea of being there to facilitate the release seems like a big waste of time to you, then I suggest it may just be more profitable to your cancer charities if you were to simply work some over time and donate that to your charity. As I really don't believe you have the sales, service, and marketing background to launch a service based small business. 

I don't mean to sound rude either, I am simply providing my insight based on my sales, marketing and banking background. And my experience in launching my own service business and serving literally hundreds of small business owners when I worked in investment banking and served as both a commercial loan officer and branch manger.

I don't know market you may live in. It is possible in your area that getting a few bucks for dropping off a crate of pigeons would make a PT job similar to delivering pizzas for Domino's. It is a highly personal thing, but if I were to launch a new service in my area, I would want to provide a quality service which enhances the image of our birds, and would be worthy of my time and best efforts. For me, if I earned $32 in my regular day job, that would be a personal incentive to me to launch a business which would provide a level of service which would enable my family to do better. 

I took a few minutes to do some web searches, and I don't know these folks, but from their web site, they seem to get it. 

http://www.ocdoves.com/Prices_.html 

In the right market, with the right business plan, I could see where one could pay the help $32 an hour, and the business owner could still earn a good living for his family.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks for your input warren. Im not saying it seems as if being there is a waste of time but more or less just wanted a good explanation of what all i should be doing while im with customers at their special event so i dont look as if im just there to be there. I dont have a marketing degree nor am i a corporate businessman and i probably will never be, but to have my own small business that offers a good quality and memorable service along with supplemental income would be nice, which is why im here asking questions so i dont go in blind and completely flop. So i definitely appreciate your input from your years of experience! I do make good money at my job, i work for GE, but as always higher income, higher bills lol.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

I didn't see it in the thread, but could have missed it. How many pigeons are USUALLY released at a wedding or at a funeral at one time? I imagine it varies, but do folks lean towards 2, or 12, or? 

Just curious, thanks!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

First the loft needs to be built. Second finding the birds you need. AND i would get breeder birds. As then you could raise from them at the begining.. Third. come the training. AND if you are going to release from 50 75 to 100 miles away. That means you drow a circle to your release area on the map. train the 4 directions. Then you are ready to do weddings funerals and events.. You set up a web page. You get and meet with wedding planners. Meet with funeral home directers ECT. give presentation to your Release bussiness. find and BUY your baskets ect. ALLWAYS be at every release or have someone there. Set your price chart. Dress well. Remember release near dark means birds would be out over night so Might not be a good idea to except late release times for the BIRDS safety. SO basicly first year is the set up. And then your method and advertising.


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## Hawkins Family Loft (Dec 15, 2011)

Hey Country84,

I have a white dove release business in Baltimore, MD and I like you begin with racing homers and decided to make my hobby pay for itself. I dont have a big loft so I decided to get not only birds that were white but birds I could send down the road on a race longer than 50 miles! I got intouch with a guy from the back of The Racing Pigeon Digest and he ultimatly got me in touch with Art Casale of Arrowhead lofts of San Diego, Ca for my good whites ( just a lil back history on how I got started last year ). 

Last year I got some business cards from Vistaprint who is very reasonable and made my own website through Yahoo (have little experience with computers but was easy for someone like me, cost about $10 a month......made about $800. This year I tried something different. Still have the same cards and website but this time I went to just about every funeral home here in Baltimore and made this offer. Take my base charge of $150 for 4 birds, add it into your packages for whatever price point you want to use, just rememeber no matter what you charge I still want my base of $150 for those birds. The older funeral directoers where leary but the younger ones jumped all over it. Fast forward, I did 3 funerals today, 2 yesterday and 3 last saturday etc. I have one funeral home that charges the family $500 for the same 4 birds in their package and another funeral home that doesn't charge anything above the $150 because the owner feels like he makes his money on the coffin and other things and he uses it as gift to the familyand he pays me himself. I like the casket wholesaler, don't care what they charge the family as long as I get the $150 for the service. 

I understand why you feel the way you do about funerals and i'm sorry the only advice I could help with is the funeral side. I have done a few weddings but they are very few and far between. By the way made about $35,000 this year! I can't believe it BIG difference from last year and its a hobby!

I hope something helps if you have any questions please feel free to ask! Everyone check out my website no matter what state your in and offer any constructive advice, or comments on how i could better the webiste! Thanks!

www.faithfulwings.com

Good luck Country!


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

That is very interesting Hawkins. Going into college next year and my father retiring I have thought about doing white dove releases, even if I only profit $500 that would pay for feed and a lot more. I would just want to be able to pay for the hobby. You have made me seriously consider this!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very nice website.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Hawkins,
That 35,000.00 sure did perk some ears up didn't it!.Now you're going to have Everyone going into it.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

A question to those have white *homing* pigeons - not those that have white *racing *pigeons. 

I know when you're doing training tosses, you are basically forcing the bird to fly and go back home. But when you are loft flying, do white homing pigeons loft fly well/route well?

I'm going to be training my white homing pigeon young birds with my normal racing pigeons (the ones that I will be racing, they're good quality racing pigeons), so maybe they will join the flock and loft fly with them/route with them? I'm going to be doing training tosses for both at the same time (they will be trained together, in the same manner, and will fly back to the same loft). 

Or is it generally hard to get the white homing pigeons to loft fly/route? 

My racers might help them, but I'm just wondering if they usually do or don't.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Revolution Lofts said:


> A question to those have white *homing* pigeons - not those that have white *racing *pigeons.
> 
> I know when you're doing training tosses, you are basically forcing the bird to fly and go back home. But when you are loft flying, do white homing pigeons loft fly well/route well?
> 
> ...


 As both groups are "pigeons" they'll want to be part of the flock. What will happen is the lesser birds will get pulled beyond their ability and get lost. The "good quality racing pigeons" will slow down to compensate for the rest of the "flock" or the "white homing pigeons" will speed up to stay with the "flock". I guess your option is to see what your plan produces or fly them separately. Good luck!


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## Hawkins Family Loft (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks everyone for you comments! It really is great making enough money to do just this! I got fired from my job because I had to keep calling out to do events, I knew once I built up my client base I would be set and quit anyway. Now i'm living a dream, my birds have become so tame because i'm always home and in the lofts doing something.

I agree with raftree, it depends on the quality of the birds you have. If they were just bred to be white you going to lose them if you train them with your racers. The guy I met in the digest sold me a kit of those 12 born just to be white youngsters and I put them in with my young bird team and lost them all before the season. I got some quality white breeders some birds out of them and scored 18th club vs 230 birds 2011 YB's. So it depends on what your trying to do with the birds. If you want to race them then test them along with the rest of your birds and breed from the best cock and hen and the end of the season. Nothing is more satisfying than scoring with some of those "disney whites" in a race!

If anyone is interested in this business feel free to hit me up and I will give you my contact info so we can swap idea's. I got alot of my idea's from calling out of state white dove companies I found by google. Being out of state I wasn't a competitor so alot of the folks shared alot of useful tips. Infact one of them suggested I wholesale my services to funeral directors and thats the reason my business jumped the way it did.

Good luck!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Revolution Lofts said:


> A question to those have white *homing* pigeons - not those that have white *racing *pigeons.
> 
> I know when you're doing training tosses, you are basically forcing the bird to fly and go back home. But when you are loft flying, do white homing pigeons loft fly well/route well?
> 
> ...


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I am going to train both the whites and my racers the same. I'm not looking to jump right into the dove release business right now. I want to develop a line of whites that can fly competitively. So if that takes me a few years, I'm fine with that. In a couple of years, when I have a group of white racers that can extremely well from at least 300 miles, only then will I start my release business. 

Until then I might do a few releases here and there. Right now my whites consist of:

15 breeding pairs and 3 hens. Some of these breeders were bred for dove releases while some have much better homing intelligence. They have all been tested to at least 50 miles I think since they have flown over the Georgia Strait here in British Columbia to Vancouver Island. So if they can fly across the Pacific Ocean, they shouldn't be too bad of a quality of homers.

However, as I said, I'm giving this project of mine 3-4 years to develop. I'm going to bring in better blood to mix in with them. From across Canada and the US mainly. I will be doing a lot of importing/exporting of birds across the border once the therapy programs start up so I'll have a few opportunities to bring birds across the border. 

I'm going for more of a quality mission rather than a quantity mission. In my opinion that is a better way to go as some of you have mentioned. I'd rather be doing releases when I know the birds can make it back from 250+ mile plus consistently. Every release will just be a training toss for them if you get what I mean! (Not a struggle to get home)


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Hope you've got a lot of room......15 pairs of whites and 20 pairs of racers that you mentioned in another thread!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

as far as the routing of white homers.. mine did not do this untill they were a year old or so...after allot of loft flying and road trips too.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I just did a head count, this is what I have right now:

15 pairs of white homers
14 pairs of racing pigeons

4 extra racing cocks
3 extra white homer hens

My current set up has 17 individual breeding pens. These will be given to both the white homers and racers. The white homers get 8 pens, the racers get 9 pens. The remaining 12 pairs will be in an open loft situation. However, I will pair them up 1 by 1 in an individual breeding pen before releasing into the open loft with nest boxes.

So housing the breeders is not a problem. As far as the young birds go, instead of breeding 3 rounds, I might breed 2 rounds from every pair and 3 rounds from a select few. I have a 10 X 8 young bird section to fly the birds from. I have estimated roughly 120 young birds for next year. I'm going to be doing some serious training so I might lose a lot of young birds. Plus BC weather in the spring time can be harsh on the birds so we lose quite a few birds during training/races. We have a bad BOP problem too. So I think I could successfully house any young birds I get. Train/test them properly and keep only the best ybs and breeders to breed from the next year.

I am going to cut down from 14/15 pairs of both the white homers and the racers to 12 of each for 2014. This might help a lot too!


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'll be interested in what you settle on. On another site you posted that you have 10 pairs of racers and a few whites so that must have grown. Not sure what anyone would do with 120 YB's. Your 10x8 YB loft loft should only house about 40 plus or minus. Good luck with all your plans.


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