# (Teen?) Pigeon, unsure how to care for it. (beginner)



## Emypony

*[Apparently] Crow/Raven, unsure how to care for it. (beginner)*

This year, the universe gave me another chance at helping a bird. As a few might remember from this thread, the dove I was trying to help died.

Today, at school in the courtyard I found a (somewhat?) young pigeon who can not fly, moreso I think it's because it doesn't know how. Recently it snowed and even if there isn't 0C (for now, since this is when winter hits over here in *Romania*), I don't want to leave this little guy to fate. Already some kids wanted to get a hold of it before and I feared for what could have happened. I managed to keep it somewhere until classes ended and I took it home. I placed it in a big wide bucket and put some towels beneath it for the time being. It drank water (after dipping its' beak and then shaking its head and spraying it everywhere in the process) so at least it's not dehydrated (hopefully). It's a bit shy and squeaks, but will not attempt to even jump out of the bucket or run away (unless held in hands)

I want to ask, what does it eat? (I see it pecking the bucket or the towels) I read something about dog pellets/biscuits in case there's nothing else, but I only have cat food. (and I don't want to risk anything.) I also saw something about possibly worms as well and that'd work since I also have a turtle, but we're out of worms atm. So what can I feed it, until I get some bird mix? 

I don't want to flat out give it breadcrumbs but I was wondering if rice would work? (I remember using to feed wild doves when I was little with rice) Also, should I get some warm water bottles and place them under the towels? It's definitely not as cold as outside, but I want to make sure. Also it seems it wants to go to sleep? Wondering how that will go. (It's closing its' eyes and staying motionless on its legs, but will wake up if I approach)

P.S. My cat seems disinterested in it for the time being but I really hope she won't bother it. I also want to release it when it gets warmer (but I wouldn't mind a feathered friend in the future either) but I wonder how could I teach it to fly?
Thanks for the help in advance ^^
Also, here's a picture!

EDIT 1: I tried getting it to eat some sesame seeds/other random seeds i found in my house (muesli like, after softening them up with some water) Nothing. It doesn't seem to know how to eat on his own, aside from nibbling. It seems friendly enough, (I don't know the gender, so I'll call it a he, if you will). I'll wait until mom gets home and we can try to feed it by opening his beak and putting something in.

EDIT 2: I went to the vet and he said it's definitely not a pigeon (as i had thought, upon looking up google for pics of pigeon fledglings??) but moreso a raven or a crow, which honestly gets me excited!!


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## cwebster

Am not an expert but it looks like a baby pigeon to me. Would try wild birdseed.


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## Emypony

cwebster said:


> Am not an expert but it looks like a baby pigeon to me. Would try wild birdseed.


Thanks for the advice! I'll try getting some food for it tomorrow.
I know it looks like a baby pigeon but the size is questionable. It's as big as a normal one!
Here's sort of a size comparison when it's on my shoulder. I've seen and held pigeons at the animal fairs near me and they're definitely roughly the same size at least, that's why I was confused at first as well.


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## bootface

It’s definitely a pigeon, not a corvid. They grow extremely fast, and are roughly the size of their parents before they leave the nest.


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## Emypony

bootface said:


> It’s definitely a pigeon, not a corvid. They grow extremely fast, and are roughly the size of their parents before they leave the nest.


Yeah, figured it out as well after googling a bit ^^
Still, thank you!
It seems to sneeze a bit? I hope it will go away now that i'm keeping it warm. 
Also I can't get it to eat anything (for now at least). I tried opening his beak to put some breadcrumbs in but it won't work. It's only drinking water.


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## bootface

You'll likely need to force feed it. Peas or corn works well, you just have to get them far enough down his throat for him to swallow them. You could try this with seeds. I don't have any experience with that method, either with seeds or formula. I've always tube fed them, but that requires more equipment and instruction.


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## Jay3

Until you get some wild bird seed, and he learns to eat on his own, you can feed him frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm water. Here is how to do that.

If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.


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## Jay3

Can you get him a cage or something, rather than leaving him in a bucket? He needs to be able to see around. And you need to keep your cat away from him. The cage should be up on a table, as they don't feel safe on the floor. They feel more secure higher up.


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## Emypony

Jay3 said:


> Can you get him a cage or something, rather than leaving him in a bucket? He needs to be able to see around. And you need to keep your cat away from him. The cage should be up on a table, as they don't feel safe on the floor. They feel more secure higher up.





Jay3 said:


> Until you get some wild bird seed, and he learns to eat on his own, you can feed him frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm water. Here is how to do that.
> 
> If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.





bootface said:


> You'll likely need to force feed it. Peas or corn works well, you just have to get them far enough down his throat for him to swallow them. You could try this with seeds. I don't have any experience with that method, either with seeds or formula. I've always tube fed them, but that requires more equipment and instruction.


Thank you for all the advice, everyone! Getting to answers in order, I did ditch the bucket in favor for a smaller (?) box that is now on top of my desk. Smaller as in, the sides aren't as tall, and he can easily get out (as I found out today after finding him on the floor somehow?) but does not do so, really. I got him close to the cat and he curiously looks at it while my cat either backs away if he flaps his wings or squeaks, but otherwise does not care. (she used to be 'huntier' last year but now she got lazy. She is also castrated so that might also have to do something with it?) Point being, not a threat.

I finally got around to buying some bird food after school today and put it in a rather deep candle support (a small tea plate didn't really work) and he seems to be just fine eating on his own! I'm glad I didn't have to force feed him. It takes a bit to eat as he seems to drop some of his food back but I can clearly see he is eating.

Next thing that concerns me is I've heard some cackling coming from his insides? I worriedly googled some stuff up and I've found a few things, but it's still pretty confusing to me. I tried looking in its' beak for yellow spots but I couldn't see anything. Could it be his food pouch (? sorry I don't know the exact term atm) getting infected? Maybe some stones? Air pouches? I really don't know. I'll wait and see if I can hear the cackling again today, then see about going to the vet if it doesn't go away. ((at the moment i am writing this, he has eaten a little bit more and I can't seem to hear the cackle anymore))

I'm a bit concerned because when I found him yesterday his food pouch seemed a reasonable size and I could feel that it was full with grains or whatever he had eaten, but today it was empty and even after eating i felt that it wasn't like yesterday. Wondering if eating more will help. ((Just generally worried that he's not eating enough, I don't know))

My last final question remains about its' poop. Yesterday it was solid but today it's less than the normal amount and more watery. Could be because I couldn't give him anything to eat yesterday, only water, but I hope it goes back to normal now that it has food.

Also, is heat really important? Of course in the house it's much warmer than outside (and trust me, today has been a very cold and windy day. Definitely wouldn't have been good for him to be outside) but I still wonder if I should do more. I'm keeping him on the radiator (and sometimes on the windowsill inside) on some magazines to not feel the heat directly. He seems to like it, just as last night when it fell asleep on top of, but wondering if I should take more measures.

This morning as I left to school it seemed energetic and curious enough, so I suppose that's a good thing, right? Still feeling a bit bad when I hear it make sounds and I feel it's crying, but I don't think I can do much about that, heh.

Thank you again for the help, and i look forward to hearing from you ^^

EDIT: I checked on him again after I let him on the windowsill to eat. He definitely has some food in his pouch now! I took the food away for now as I want to give him a bit of time to rest but I'll let him eat again. ((Read something about overfeeding and how dangerous that can be, so I'm taking measures)) He seems to have gotten better at eating, even if it's a bit messy. All in all, he seems energetic.


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## bootface

Your cat is a threat, please keep a door between them at all times. Just a tiny scratch can be deadly to a bird. 
I’m so glad he’s eating on his own. You don’t have to worry about over feeding once they’re self feeding. Just give him ~8 hours of darkness at night for his crop to empty. It’s safer to assume that it can’t regulate its own body temperature. A heating pad would be ideal. 
Do you hear cracklying when you hold it’s chest to your ear? Or is it infrequent?


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## Emypony

bootface said:


> Your cat is a threat, please keep a door between them at all times. Just a tiny scratch can be deadly to a bird.
> I’m so glad he’s eating on his own. You don’t have to worry about over feeding once they’re self feeding. Just give him ~8 hours of darkness at night for his crop to empty. It’s safer to assume that it can’t regulate its own body temperature. A heating pad would be ideal.
> Do you hear cracklying when you hold it’s chest to your ear? Or is it infrequent?


Read on the whole cat thing situation, and I'll take what you say into consideration. I'll keep an eye on them but I really don't have a cage for it, neither a place to get one at the moment. The bird can be out and about and she won't bat an eye. (Didn't do anything during the night, neither all the time I was gone at school.) Oh, well.
The cackling went away now that it ate a little, so that's good.

I read a few things on how to get it to be friendlier with me and such, as well as other pigeon related things. (Pigeon pants are so expensive and I really, cannot believe it, haha.))

Wondering what else could I do with it at night that would require me to feed it, heh. ((I did read that I should let it empty completely once every 24 hours.))

I'll keep you updated, if anything. Here's a video of it eating ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8jZ_tIFGA4&


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## cwebster

Darling cute bird!


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## Jay3

Leave dish of food and water with him all day. The worry about over feeding or letting the crop empty only applies to birds that you are hand feeding. When they are eating themselves, they know when to stop. 

And as far as the cat, don't be fooled by his seeming not interested. You can never trust a cat with a bird around. Many very sorry people wished that they had not trusted their cat or dog after the bird was killed. The bird really needs a safe cage or some way to keep the cat totally away from him.


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## Emypony

Jay3 said:


> Leave dish of food and water with him all day. The worry about over feeding or letting the crop empty only applies to birds that you are hand feeding. When they are eating themselves, they know when to stop.
> 
> And as far as the cat, don't be fooled by his seeming not interested. You can never trust a cat with a bird around. Many very sorry people wished that they had not trusted their cat or dog after the bird was killed. The bird really needs a safe cage or some way to keep the cat totally away from him.


We are looking into getting a bigger cage atm, so there's that. I try to feed him in intervals so he'll become more accustomed to me like this. Made a makeshift perch out of my cat's scratching post turned sideways, and it seems to do the trick for now, haha. ((It's on my desk so the cat can't get to it)) He's currently preening. I also noticed he likes to dip his head in the water and then try to get it on himself, like a bath. I took him into the sink but he was scared. Would a bottle with a very fine nozzle for a spray with water do the trick?

He's currently on the makeshift perch just tending to his feathers. I think he likes it more than when standing on a straight surface.

Also, as he was preening I noticed he seems to have an older injury? It doesn't look recent but it's still concerning. Should I go to the vet for another checkup? When I went he didn't look at it but just gave me some tips.


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## Emypony

Ok ummmm, I'm getting a bit worried now.

The little guy has been sneezing a bit since I brought him in, and I just looked up symptoms and what else it could be. Somehow I stumbled upon salmonella?? and now I'm getting concerned, since googling pictures of it for birds showed that other birds with the wound (that i have pictured below) have salmonella, or some sort.

I don't know how I would rate its' droppings but they have been harder than yesterday, not sure about the green slime since I didn't pay attention?
EDIT: Looked them over, they seem fine. The usual white+grayish green color, really not sure what it'd describe it as, haha..but it's not as runny.

The wings don't seem to be swollen, though I wouldn't be sure how to check either. I hope it's nothing serious. He's been 'preening' as I have called it in my last post, and occasionally scratching as well. He seems to want to rip his feathers off (but not excessively, moreso as if he's arranging them or something.) but I left it alone since I just assumed he's supposed to change his feathers anyway, due to growing up and all. He seems to be stretching them a lot, as well as trying to fly and hopping off of things, so I guess that's another sign of...something?

For the moment, he's just sneezing every 10 mins or so ((sometimes more often, other times hours go by)) so I just hope it's due to him being just a little chilly. 
((unsure how to get him on a heating pad without messing it all up with papers underneath so it doesn't stain. I'd put him on the radiator again but he doesn't seem to like standing there as much without a perch))

He is more energetic than yesterday so I don't know if that's anything to go by.


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## bootface

He could have an upper respiratory infection. There’s no way to tell what kind without testing. Look in his mouth. Is there any yellow stuff on the top around the slit?


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## Emypony

Nope! I checked. Clean as whistle, really.


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## Jay3

You can put a heating pad under the box, and set the pad only on LOW. Not higher or it would be too warm for him.
Don't think your vet is going to be much help as he didn't even know what the bird was. Avian vets are more helpful for a bird.


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## Emypony

Jay3 said:


> You can put a heating pad under the box, and set the pad only on LOW. Not higher or it would be too warm for him.
> Don't think your vet is going to be much help as he didn't even know what the bird was. Avian vets are more helpful for a bird.


Haha yeah...:^) I have doubts about the vet as well. He's a nice guy but I like giving people the benefit of the doubt.
It's a small town so I don't know if there's any bird specialized vets.
I'll also try seeing about getting the heating pad under the box. Right now I keep him on the radiator on top of some magazines ((occasionally only, not 24/7. a couple of hours a day at least)). Is there any set temperature they shouldn't be near? I want to know so I can specifically set things up. ((I just checked the heat and it doesn't pass through all the layers of the paper magazine, and his legs are only staying on something warm, definitely not hot to the touch or even close. Though they might be feeling something else. He's laid down on it every time I put him there in the past couple of days but now he's staying on one leg so I'm wondering if that's just changing positions or the heat is really bothering him))


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## Emypony

In all honesty though, my cat is just displeased by the lack of space she has on the radiator compared to before the pigeon's arrival. ((They did however share the space before.))

The thing that's between them is a cut up paper towel roll just because I needed to stop the pigeon from walking all over the radiator, haha.
He seems to have started being more adventurous, flying up and down from the sill to the radiator and the floor, so I guess those are good signs.

Eating and drinking (and making a mess) as well.

(she looks as if she's giving him the side glance. Too bad my phone's battery was too low to use flash, or I'd have captured her true essence better)
She did look as if she was interested in the pigeon this morning, but upon watching her, honestly she was just trying to paw at the roll. Right now she got off the radiator and is looking at it from below. And besides, she's super picky with her food. A measly ugly pigeon would definitely not satisfy her, or her need to play x'D.


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