# Canker? or Am I crazy



## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Got this squab and it is just a cutie. Everything normal, eats like a pig and pops a storm. I guess I just want some assurance. Does he seem "off" looking to you?

Pictures are a day in difference


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Looks OK to me...You will see more feathering color in another week...Looks like a very dark brown/black color....Alamo


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I was thinking that he would be a dark gray or blackish color. Can't get the little guy to be quiet..... I suppose i am a tad paranoid aha.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

He looks good to me, but if he seems a little sleepy acting all the time make sure he is getting enough water.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Will do thanks for the heads up chuck


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Agree with Alamo and Chuck, looks good to me too  
More feathers should show up in coming week. But yes if the chin feathers delay in coming even when everywhere else he is covered, we can suspect for canker but can't be said right now. He looks very cute


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Will do thanks for the heads up chuck


The squab should get enough water from the formula, and feeding defrosted peas and corn. Giving water separate can go down the wrong way and get in his lungs and cause infection and raspy breathing and they can die from it. The possibility of flat out drowning them is there too, esp if they move quick when forcing it in. The young pigeon learns to drink right before or during weaning by tipping the end of his beak IN a water dish left for him in his cage and allowing them to suck it up themselves when they are ready, it just has to be introduced everyday until he figures it out.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Progress! Here he is. I hope he is a he...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Looks adorable  
How old now?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

13-16 days now. He eats on his own. No longer needs my help


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Independent baby. Lol. My squeaker ate for more than 2 months from my hand (hand feeding). He didn't want to be independent from mommy. Lol


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Lol. Thing that makes me laugh is whenever he sees me its constant squeaking and wing flapping. Enough to give me a headache Lol!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah they are very noisy sometimes making piercing sounds but they look very very cute when they flap and ask for feed


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for saving the squab. You are doing great. Him too.

He's cute. If he has started to eat/drink on his own then he's gonna grow fast from now on. Is the squab sleepy? Hope you're adding organic ACV to his water twice weekly and keeping him warm.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yes, I am doing everything I should be. He likes to stand and preen and when he sits he doesn't doze off. I only notice him dozing off when I'm holding or right after i feed in early morning and when its dark. I hope that's normal


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Quick question. Its late and his crop isn't empty but its nowhere near full. Should I "top it off" before I go to bed or will it be ok?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes feed him. Its long night. Fill it 85%, not totally. His crop must be empty in the morning


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## FrostysGirl (Jun 6, 2015)

He looks very happy! His eyes are bright and he is beautiful!!!


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Today I got him to eat seeds. He really like them because he didn't want anything to do with the defrosted peas and corn or the formula.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I run out of organic apple cider vinegar would normal acv be okay until I buy the organic this Friday?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Then you can afford to wait until Friday. Let the Bragg's Organic one ring your door bell. In the meantime you can give him vitamins and minerals treated water and calcium separately, each thing for one day.
Its okay if he don't eat peas for now. Maybe its about their size. He'll tackle them too. Keep them in front of him. He'll slowly start to pick them up


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

This is him after being fed. Very active. Does he look small for his age? Also this is what his poops are like.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Nice poop ! Picture could be in a reference book under good looking healthy pigeon poop.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

He sometimes has watery soft poo that isn't firm like this. Is that okay/normal?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes thats perfectly all right ! They poop out more water a couple of times after being fed/ after they drink drink a lot of water usually after feeding.

Even if he's lagging behind a little in development in relation to his age, not to worry. Hand raised squabs often lag behind. But your squab looks great. Thanks to you for your lovin' support. keep up


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Okay so the squeaker sill has a bit of food in his crop this morning, I am afraid that this is slow crop. I have the formula that is supposed to help. Should I feed that until crop movement returns to normal?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Or should I feed grit since he eats seeds now? Is it taking longer to empty crop because the seeds are harder to digest?


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Or should I feed grit since he eats seeds now? Is it taking longer to empty crop because the seeds are harder to digest?


If seeds are freely available, then the squeak is probably just eating when ever it's hungry.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Or should I feed grit since he eats seeds now? Is it taking longer to empty crop because the seeds are harder to digest?


A few grit pieces can't hurt, they probably get it from the parent birds when being fed. They don't need much and will seek it out when they can fly and look for gravel the pick up. So the activity is done when they are weaned and flying. If he is eating enough on his own I would not worry about the crop at this point.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is he eating enough on his own? If so, then no need to feed him. Sometimes, when they start to eat on their own, they can overdo it, and the crop can have a hard time emptying. If that happens, then feed him a bit of warmed apple sauce mixed with a bit of warm water. That should help the crop to empty. That's all you would give. If it isn't emptying, then you wouldn't feed him formula. You don't want to add new food to old.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yes he eats by himself. In not too worried about it. Going to pick up some pigeon feed and vitamins and some more calcium +d3. Here he is now. Getting bigger by the day.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Awww! Thanks for the pics


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes, offer him grit and he'll love it. Pigeons are born to digest hard things. If he's eating on his own enough, some grit daily will be helpful.
The problem of crop not emptying can be tackled with probiotics and organic ACV.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

If a bird has slow crop will it show in their poo?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

More pics. I need to find a good food mix that will get this guy gaining weight. Going shopping tomorrow so suggestions would be much appreciated. I am getting worried about his size.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Feeding him just cracked corn isn't good for him. Look for a pigeon and dove mix at a pet shop.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Should I experiment with the pellets or stick to dove grain/seed mix


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Pellets made specially for pigeons which don't have artificial colors and flavours can be given to pigeons. Pigeons and doves are different from other birds so their needs are different. They can't be given any other regular pellets.

If you add 5-10% pigeon pellets to your squab's feed then that's it you don't have to worry about his nutritional needs. They will have it all.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Get the dove mix and add to it to make it more interesting for him. Add some split peas, lentils, a small amount of brown rice and safflower seed, and a bit of the cracked corn.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Here is what I found. Seems good and had alto of variety.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can feed him that, or even add those things to it that I have mentioned.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I am planning to. I also am going to keep an eye out for pellets to mix in as well. Thanks for the assistance. Will update regularly


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Its almost 8 here and the little guy still has seed in his crop....
I take away the food at night down he couldn't have eaten more

His poops have taken a drastic change as well. There is no solid part only water now.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Have you started adding ACV to his water yet?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I have added acv yesterday to his water


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's good. Did you see him drinking also? 
I would give him warm apple sauce with a few drops of water to help with slow crop. 
Shouldn't be fed until crop gets emptied.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

He drinks alot and I am waiting until his crop is empty all the way. How much applesauce should I feed him? Can I feed him that now or should I wait till crop empties?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He drinks a lot, but has he eaten, and how much. Can you post a clear picture of him from the front? Also a pic of his droppings?
You would give the warmed,(not hot) applesauce to help the crop to empty.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I haven't been able to feed him yet this morning because his crop still has food in it. It does seem to be emptying some. 
Having issues uploading pictures. The website crashes and says this,Website is offline No cached version of this page is available.

Poop is green in color. Perhaps I could email the pictures to you jay?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

How is the bird now? How many meals he skipped? 
Have you tried resizing or cropping the pic to upload?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't have to wait for it to completely empty to give the warmed applesauce. That is what it is given for. To help the crop to empty.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

His cropped emptied. He has cotton one small feeding and is emptying better. His poops however are still abnormal. They are green with odd film


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> His cropped emptied. He has cotton one small feeding and is emptying better. His poops however are still abnormal. They are green with odd film


Those are very likely to be starvation poos. A bird that isn't getting enough to eat will have a filmy green poo.

Once the crop is emptying better and the peep is able to eat enough, then it should turn dark and solid and lose the slimy film, if there isn't an underlying infection.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Okay thanks. Will let you all know what happens in the morning


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

Good luck. <3


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

RamseyRingnecks said:


> Those are very likely to be starvation poos. A bird that isn't getting enough to eat will have a filmy green poo.
> 
> Once the crop is emptying better and the peep is able to eat enough, then it should turn dark and solid and lose the slimy film, if there isn't an underlying infection.


Agree with this.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I also read that a bit of olive oil added to food can help as well. Should I try this?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Haven't tried yet. 
Have you fed him now when others suspect it is starvation poop. Is he able to pick up and eat seeds on his own or you are hand feeding him?
If he was eating well, why is he starving. In just skipping one meal they don't pass starvation poop as I know.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Its because of his crop. Its still not emptying right


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much do you give him, and how long does it take to empty?
Are you sure it isn't empty?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I can feel the individual seeds. I last feed him at 4 pm. I only gave him enough to where it was 25-50% full. It is now almost nine and there are still a bit of seeds in his crop. I have been feeding a bit of apple sauce to get the crop to empty


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Its getting late and still food in crop. Could something be blocking it? Like maybe he found a rock from the floor? In running out of ideas


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does his crop generally empty over night?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

It does but today it was bad. Crop didn't empty until late afternoon. I don t smell his breath either

Also I added some oil to his seed to help move it along when he can eat again


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't use too much oil.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I only did a couple drops 2-3. Any ideas to make sure his crop is empty in the morning?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

In the pic, it looked like you had given him all cracked corn. That is hard, and hard to digest. For a bird just starting to eat on his own, it doesn't surprise me if the crop is slow. Don't feed him that stuff. Give him the Dove mix. And when a bird just starts eating at that young of an age, You should be supplementing him. Pay attention to how much he is eating, and give some formula or warmed defrosted peas. Measure what you give him in Tablespoons, then at the end of the day, collect it all and measure it again. He probably isn't eating enough. But you need to know what he is eating in order to know how much to hand feed him.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

So tonight have him eat some dove mix and then have him fill up on the formula? Ill try that and will hope that his crop will be empty in the morning

Should I feed him now even though he still has some food in crop or wait it out


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't feed him formula if you don't know how much he is eating. He may get over fed.
Unless you can see that his crop is not very full from seed. Can you tell how much he is eating?


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Poop is returned to normal but he still has a bit of seed in crop. Not much bit its there

Edit his crop emptied. I measured one cup of seed and put that in his feeder. Should I allow access to seed all day?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If it has mostly emptied then I wouldn't worry. You should be able to tell by whether or not he is having enough droppings. Check at the end of the day to see how much he is actually eating. If not enough, then you need to supplement. It usually takes a while for them to become self feeding on their own with no supplemental help from you. Just because he has started picking up seed, doesn't meant that you just stop the feedings. But then again, I'm not there, and don't know how much he is getting.
As he is just learning to eat on his own, and will pick a little here and there, yes, you need to leave food for him 24/7. Why would you take it away? Racers do that to control the birds through their hunger. You have no reason to do that, and you need to encourage him to eat.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Update: his crop is working good again! Left him food available all day and no issues. Well formed firm poo and he is very active again. Thanks to all who helped. It got scary for a bit there


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

The thing is he should of been given the hard seeds slowly. They take time to digest . Usually an adult pigeon will eat and fill his crop and directly go get a long drink of water to moisten it, they also have grit in their gizzard to help grind the harder seed. He should of had a few seeds popped into him here and there to get used to the change, so that is what caused his droppings to change also.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

The little guy is flying now. Exploring on the floor. Lol ill add some pics when the attachment issue is resolved.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great! Thanks for the update.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Here's some pics. Hope the link works.. He is one of the most messy eaters I have seen Lol.

http://imgur.com/a/nimlO

Also a video

m.youtube.com/watch?v=chlW_YzE7Vs


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeons are messy eaters as they fish through all the seed and try to find their favorites. A feeder that is more difficult to throw seed from is helpful.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

I was thinking if trying a small dog dish with semi tall walls so he cant make such a mess. I was thinking of adding some whole corn to his pigeon mix.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Different people have come up with feeders for their pet birds that work pretty well. I'll have to try to find the pics for you.
As far as whole corn, my birds don't like it as it is so large. They do however like course cracked corn.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Ok thanks the pics would help. Also, the mix has safflower and he really loves that. Should I add some additional to it? Or should I leave it as is


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Some safflower is fine, but too much isn't good because it is high in fat.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are just a few ideas.People come up with a pretty good things actually. Try some to find what works best for you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Wow. These are great ideas. I would always afraid though if any of the rough/sharp edges in making these feeders could hurt pigeons while eating. I think I can't do it that good. People are amazing and very creative.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can always take the sharpness off the edges with a hot knife. Just run the edge of a knife that has been heated in a flame along the edge to slightly melt it. If there is enough room for them to get to the food, then don't think it would be a problem. 
I don't so much care for the ones with the small holes that they put their heads into for the same reason as you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah think it would be better to smoothen with a hot knife. 
I after a lot of hunt recently bought heavy flat surfaced glass bowls so now the spilling problem has been minimised because these have tall walls and these are heavy so don't turn over. 
Only problem is if I drop them accidentally, they are gone. So will have to keep these ideas in mind for the next time.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Do you think he is old enough to have a bath?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he will bathe, then it's fine. Don't force him. They do tend to go in the water faster when they see others doing it. You can fill a bath for him and slpash in the water with your hand to encourage him. Fill it a few inches with lukewarm water.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Ill do that. I made one of the feeders from above and he can't throw his seeds across the room. Thanks Lol that was a pain to clean up and a waste


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

First bath a success. He seemed to love it


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great! I have seen pigeons love to bathe.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Also with the pigeon mix it consists mostly of small seeds and he doesn't like the small seeds and often sifts through them to find the cracked/whole corn, safflower, and wheat. Are there any other pigeon or doves mixes that have bigger seeds?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can add to the mix. Dried split peas and lentils are good. Get them at the grocery store. A bit of safflower, just not too much. Most pigeons like milo seed, as it is larger then the millet, and that can usually be gotten where they sell wild bird seed. I always add these things to a dove mix.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Here is the little guy. He fell asleep on my lap

http://imgur.com/IUSjVZQ


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Awww! So cute.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Quiet, comfortable and relaxed  
You are doing great for him!


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