# raising pigeons in a subdivision



## zinnie (Sep 25, 2002)

we are a 4 h family that has raised pigeons for 10 yrs we have lived in the house we are in now for 5 yrs and have been recently served papers that we have to get rid of our pigeons - help- this is my childrens hobby


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Zinnie and Welcome!

First, you must know the codes and ordinances for your city .. if you don't then go get a copy from your city .. they have to be able to provide you with this.

I am in California which has nothing to do with you in Wisconsin, I believe .. but it is all about the rules .. go get them for your city and then post back here ...

Usually the rule is that your type of birds have to be at least 50 feet from the nearest neighbor and that there cannot be a noise problem .. your rules may be different and YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE.

So, get educated and if you are meeting the rules, then fight .. if not, fold early because you will be risking your birds.

Terry Whatley


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## zinnie (Sep 25, 2002)

terry
thanks for replying to my question - our ordinance says that we can not raise poultry in our zone - per the university of wisconsin madison - they say that pigeons are not poultry - - what is the consenus on that are what is the ruling in california - when the kids show at any 4-h show they are not made to do the pullorum testing as the chickens or other poultry are


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Zinnie

The ordinance itself might specify what the definition of poultry is otherwise the dictionary definition will apply.

This is an extract from the Waukesha Zoning Ordinance :

"_Offsets for buildings housing domesticated livestock, fur-bearing animals,* PIGEONS *, swine, goats and * POULTRY *, shall be not less than fifty (50) feet from an adjacent property line. This does not include dog houses or small enclosures housing normal and usual household type pets.5. _ " 

which would indicate that pigeons are not included under the definition of poultry.

In the dictionary poultry tends to be described as a farm animal, which I think Waukesha classifies as "animals kept or raised for agricultural purposes".

Cynthia

[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited September 26, 2002).]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Zinnie,
Sorry to hear about your problem.
Terry is correct, knowledge of the ordinance is vital, however, it is equally important that nothing is taken out of context. In other words, don't rely on one paragraph alone. It could make all the difference in the world.
Since you have been working with the pigeons in the same location for 5 yrs. could this be a new rule? If so, perhaps you could be granfathered in. Just a thought. What prompted the officials to 'all of a sudden' notify you that the birds must go? Did they give you a time frame in which this must be remedied? Interesting situation. Please keep us posted. Cindy



[This message has been edited by Whitefeather (edited September 26, 2002).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Cindy and Terry are right, of course. You will have to get a copy of the specific ordinance and see exactly what it says, but remember to check the definitions to see if the term "poultry" is defined. I didn't intend that quotation to be used as a weapon in any battle, but as a hopeful sign!

Cynthia


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## SM (May 14, 2002)

Zinnie, had to fight this same problem in my neighborhood. Obviously, if your loft is clean, smell is not a problem, and pigeons are much quieter than the neighborhood dogs. Some people just b---- because they can! Our ordinance also states that we cannot raise poultry, but pigeons are not on our specific poultry list. I wish I was close enough to you to help with the fight if one materializes--please let us know what your specific, written ordinance says. Your local city code enforcement people can provide it.


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## zinnie (Sep 25, 2002)

thanks to all for all the info and help with are problem - we will have are meeting this week but this is the begining paragraph - it has come to the attention of this ofice that your property above is in violation of the waukesha county zoning code. upon investigation of the property on july 25 it was found that you are raising poultry on your property which is not permitted on properties zoned residential with less than 3 acres of land. your property is zoned r-la
residential and you have approximately 1.2 acres of land.
so we did find out it was are neighbor - who i dont know why he has a problem all of a sudden 
ben my son keeps this coop very clean - he is 19 and spends a good 2-3 hrs a day out there and are daughter ellie is also very involved - they not only hsow 4h but other shows in wisconsin 
one of are other neighbors has rabbits - 30 of them - she said they have never had a problem
will keep you all posted 
to whomever had this problem how did it get reaolved - for the good or the bad 
zinnie


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## SM (May 14, 2002)

Zinnie, everything worked out fine for us. I took photographs of my very clean, well-contained loft and of the dump site that is my neighbor's backyard. I requested a formal disclosure on what constituted poultry from our city code enforcement people, and the ruling for our city and the adjacent city is that pigeons are not poultry. Poultry meant chickens, guineas, emus, ostrich, etc. Trash falls out of her barrels into my yard as she tilts and drags it to the curb--I placed it back on her porch for her once, and this was retaliation. Just a miserable person who wants others to be! There are a number of nice lofts right in our city limits--a suburb of but same county as Kansas City, MO. Good luck, and let us know the outcome.


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## zinnie (Sep 25, 2002)

dr sm
you seem to have been the only one that has responded that has had the same similar problem - well we went for are initial meeting today at waukesha county - they have let corporation counsel decide that pigeons are considered fowl - even though the dictionary says other - so we have to have apply for a variance in front of the board of adjustments as to that regard in order to save my kids hobby of raising pigeons - so were can i go to get some documentation in regards to pigeons not being considerd fowl and do you have any other ideas besides taking pictures or???
would appreciate any comments or help 
thanks zinnie


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## SM (May 14, 2002)

Can you get a copy of your city's SPECIFIC written codes? And are you able to get them for surrounding areas? What is the specific complaint--noise, unsanitary conditions? I can get a copy of our city's code, but I don't believe that would be at all helpful or considered by your local people. Someone mentioned something about the University of Wisconsin, I believe, that produced a literal definition that pigeons are not fowl
--perhaps they will see this post and help provide documentation. Are you able to get photographs of other penned animals in your neighborhood? We actually found a pot bellied pig in a backyard! Let me know first the specific complaint and I'll put my thinking cap on. My photographs of my loft and the neighbor's yard was all it took--there were no formal hearings, but I will surely help however I can. I'm sorry things are not proving positive for you, but sounds like there's still a chance.


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## natrlhorse (Sep 21, 2002)

You actually inspired me to go and check on the city ordinances (as my loft is behind our condo). I actually asked the mayor and he said there was no ordinance against it, didn't matter wether I had 10 or 10,000 pigeons. The pigeons are not a problem unless somebody complains about them. 

He went on to say that the only big animal problem they had in town was some fellow who had a pet tiger. The tiger was fine until a guy tried to burgularize the house and the tiger wanted to play. Ended up with a lawsuit there and a slightly mangled, grumpy and unsuccessful burgler. 

------------------
Tori
Fantails, Komorner Tumblers and Hungarian Giant House Pigeons


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## zinnie (Sep 25, 2002)

sm
appreciate your reply - the official complaint is that we are raising animals - and that there was a stench which initially our local town supervisor came out and said there was no stench and that he could not even tell that we has pigeons. so thats when apparently this neighbor went to waukesha county and complained - i will research are ordinances some more and are getting lots of opinions and advice and appreciate any help 
thanks all - for helping us to try and preserve a great hobby
zinnie


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good evening Zinnie,
If this were my situation, I would contact the local town supervisor that visited my residence and request a statement, in writing, verifying that he in fact did not notice or smell anything unusual, that there didn't appear to be a problem. I would think this would be extremely beneficial for your defense. I would also explain the situation to my 'friendly' neighbors and ask them if they would write a letter as well. 
Keep us posted. Cindy


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