# What after antibiotic?



## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Should the antibiotic course to a pigeon be followed by a pro-biotic or multivitamins?

I guess pro-biotic will enhance the useful bacteria in the gut, while i was suggested the other way around.

Please suggest


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Definitely, yes on the probiotics.

While antibiotics kill off good as well as bad bacteria, the probiotics will help repopulate good gut bacteria.

You should either give it 6 hours away from antibiotic dose and after the course of antibiotics is done.

As far as multi-vitamins go, follow instructions on the product.I usually give my birds the multi-vitamins once a week.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for the help

I was told by a breeder that he practices like this and have good results, i was wondering if i could hurt my bird instead of helping


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Probiotics will never hurt your birds, but giving an antibiotic or any other kind of medicine on a regular basis for no specific purpose/disease could be very harmful.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

By practices i don't mean on regular basis, but whenever antibiotics are used.

Is garlic a good pro-biotic?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Garlic is a wonderful antiviral, antifungal, and anti bacterial, and doesn't kill good gut bacteria like medications.

If your looking to repopulate good gut bacteria, probiotics will supply the cultures to do so, and a good organic apple cider vinegar will provide the environment to help repopulate them.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Okay

How much apple cider for a gallon of water?

Second if i can give garlic to my birds twice/thrice a week?

Thanks


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Organic apple cider vinegar*

I use about a 1/2 tablespoon to half gallon, you can use up to a tablespoon per gallon, a few times a week.

I give garlic on weekends away from ACV. 

Then there is actually a day or two when they don't get anything in their water.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Well actually i was treating two of my birds with antibiotics which ended up today and the birds are looking better

I was just worried/wondering if what to follow after that tomorrow morning, now i will go to your advice and provide them with Organic ACV so that they may able to fly again.

Thanks a lot for the useful replies

Just another question what will happen if i the ACV is not Organic or what are its disadvantages?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pijlover said:


> By practices i don't mean on regular basis, but whenever antibiotics are used.
> 
> Is garlic a good pro-biotic?




While garlic is good for them maybe once a week, it isn't a probiotic. You can get probiotics at pigeon supplies, or at the health food store.
ACV gives the gut an acidic environment that bad bacteria don't like, but good bacteria do.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> While garlic is good for them maybe once a week, it isn't a probiotic. You can get probiotics at pigeon supplies, or at the health food store.
> ACV gives the gut an acidic environment that bad bacteria don't like, but good bacteria do.


Unfortunately there aren't any stores here which i know have any pro-bio tics to sell, may be i have to find other places 

Can you identify any popular (pro-biotics) names?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you ask at a drug store?
Yogurt with live bacteria has probiotics in it.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Can you ask at a drug store?
> Yogurt with live bacteria has probiotics in it.


okay i will try to find it from a drug store, thanks

why i was asking you because there are hundreds of pigeon meds imports, i have to search through internet if i get a particular name from some supplier

if from yogurt you mean simple yogurt its not a problem


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Pij!

You can use `Yokult' yogurt drink , or similar.

After a course of antibiotics, it can also be helpful to treat for yeast....apple cidar vinegar helps a little, but some Nilstat (Nystatin) will be more effective.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I've never heard of Yokult yogurt drink. Is it like yogurt, only drinkable?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Hey Pij!
> 
> You can use `Yokult' yogurt drink , or similar.
> 
> After a course of antibiotics, it can also be helpful to treat for yeast....apple cidar vinegar helps a little, but some Nilstat (Nystatin) will be more effective.


thanks Bella

Good to hear from you
Today i am planning to start with ACV because that is what i have right now, I have never used these probiotics but I will try to find to find these products, if not i will revert back to you guys


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Pijlover! Nice to hear from you too That sounds good; ACV is great stuff.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Hey Pijlover! Nice to hear from you too That sounds good; ACV is great stuff.


what do you mean by yeast? we use it in bread and other food stuff. If any food grade yeast is possible to be used for the birds.


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## ThaoLoft (Feb 28, 2012)

is pro-bios a good probiotic?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pijlover said:


> what do you mean by yeast? we use it in bread and other food stuff. If any food grade yeast is possible to be used for the birds.



You don't want to give them yeast. They can get a yeast infection from the antibiotics. You want to treat them for it. With Nystatin or similar.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Pijlover said:


> what do you mean by yeast? we use it in bread and other food stuff. If any food grade yeast is possible to be used for the birds.


Hey Pijlover!

Yeast is also called `thrush' or `Candida'. Its a common & irritating side effect of antibiotics, in humans too. We girls get it `down there'. With birds, it can occur anywhere in the GI tract, but if your bird has it, you'd normally see white flat growths inside the bird's mouth. In a very bad case, the crop will slow & stop working because of the yeast, and the bird can die without treatment. I saw a bird die from it once, and so I treat with Nystatin now whenever I give antibiotics.I get it from a regular drug store, under the name `Nilstat'. You give 0.5ml per day, for a couple of day as a precaution, or for ten days if you are certain there is a yeast infection. If I treat with a strong antibiotic for a long time (ie 2 weeks or more), I give nilstat daily after the antibiotic is given.

ACV will help, especially in a mild case. Human females sometimes use vinegar to treat human thrush, but it hurts a lot, and isn't as effective as a proper antifungal. I imagine it hurts birds with it too, but I don't know for sure.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Hey Pijlover!
> 
> Yeast is also called `thrush' or `Candida'. Its a common & irritating side effect of antibiotics, in humans too. We girls get it `down there'. With birds, it can occur anywhere in the GI tract, but if your bird has it, you'd normally see white flat growths inside the bird's mouth. In a very bad case, the crop will slow & stop working because of the yeast, and the bird can die without treatment. I saw a bird die from it once, and so I treat with Nystatin now whenever I give antibiotics.I get it from a regular drug store, under the name `Nilstat'. You give 0.5ml per day, for a couple of day as a precaution, or for ten days if you are certain there is a yeast infection. If I treat with a strong antibiotic for a long time (ie 2 weeks or more), I give nilstat daily after the antibiotic is given.
> 
> ACV will help, especially in a mild case. Human females sometimes use vinegar to treat human thrush, but it hurts a lot, and isn't as effective as a proper antifungal. I imagine it hurts birds with it too, but I don't know for sure.


OOps...Seems like i totally misunderstood the word!!!


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

well i was confused by the word yeast, I thought that its a probiotic that is used after antibiotics and in actual the birds can get infected by yeast as a side effect of the antibiotics and then they have to be treated for it with 'Nilstat'.
Good new is that i have found this med and its easily available in almost every drug store here. As we are using this med as a precautionary measure and not as a probiotic, is it necessary to give it to every bird 

Now coming back to probiotics, for growing back the healthy bacteria. How important is to provide them with it after the antibiotic course? shall we go with ACV and Nilstat both at the same time or one after another?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Pijlover,

Yes, you were right, it IS a good idea to use probiotics after antibiotics have finished....just a yogurt drink with acidophilus in it, or plain acidophilus yogurt will do...you can stir it into the water. 

The problem with yeast is an additional problem; I personally think yeast is much more serious.

Just wondering, what antibiotic did you use, and for how long? 

You can put the ACV in their water, and give them a 0.5ml dose of Nilstat if its practical- how many birds?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

hey bella
They were just two birds and were treated with with cipro for 7 days, today i have added ACV one tsp in a gallon of water

BTW with a gallon you people mean US gallon or Imperial gallon?
We generally take it as Imperial/british gallon


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

ThaoLoft said:


> is pro-bios a good probiotic?


http://www.probios.com/welcome-to-probiosreg.html

This could help


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> I've never heard of Yokult yogurt drink. Is it like yogurt, only drinkable?


http://www.yakultusa.com/

It is a yogurt and only drinkable


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pijlover said:


> http://www.yakultusa.com/



That is what we call KEFIR.

what are the exact ingredients in it?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Skyeking said:


> That is what we call KEFIR.
> 
> what are the exact ingredients in it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakult

Skimmed milk is fermented with Lactobacillus casei (a bacterium) to produce this probiotic

http://www.thedoctorstv.com/forums/...-/topics/10015-Yogurt-kefir-yakult-confusion-

Kefir is sugar free and yakult is added with sugar

http://www.livestrong.com/article/316545-probiotic-dairy-drinks/


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pijlover said:


> yakult is added with sugar
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/316545-probiotic-dairy-drinks/


DO NOT give this to your pigeons it has sugar in it. You can give the bird a yogurt like Chobani, which is full of good gut bacteria and fat free and sugar free.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree with Skyeking about not giving something with sugar in it, as yeast thrives on sugar. I have looked up Yakult, and it says it is high in sugar, so not the best choice really.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Skyeking said:


> DO NOT give this to your pigeons it has sugar in it. You can give the bird a yogurt like Chobani, which is full of good gut bacteria and fat free and sugar free.


Thanks for the tip on Chobani-I haven't come across that one. 

I understand sugar should not be a part of a pigeon's regular diet, but just wondering what the problem with sugar is in a medicine? I use maple syrup all the time for making up my suspensions, and its never been a problem. There's also sugar in Nilstat and flagyl. I just don't think the sugar content of a tablespoon of yogurt in the water would be a problem as a once off?

Did you have some bad experiences with that?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Pijlover said:


> hey bella
> They were just two birds and were treated with with cipro for 7 days, today i have added ACV one tsp in a gallon of water
> 
> BTW with a gallon you people mean US gallon or Imperial gallon?
> We generally take it as Imperial/british gallon


Dear Pijlover,

7 days on Cipro is not such a long time, so your birds will probably be ok with just the ACV. If you just want to be safe, then 1-3 days on Nilstat would be enough to prevent a yeast infection, plus the probiotics in the water to repopulate the gut flora. You could then put ACV in the water for a week or two ( ideally it would be in there several times a week indefinitely, but that can get expensive)

Hope that helps, you are good Pij owner Did your two guys have Salmonella or something similar?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks for the tip on Chobani-I haven't come across that one.
> 
> I understand sugar should not be a part of a pigeon's regular diet, but just wondering what the problem with sugar is in a medicine? I use maple syrup all the time for making up my suspensions, and its never been a problem. There's also sugar in Nilstat and flagyl. I just don't think the sugar content of a tablespoon of yogurt in the water would be a problem as a once off?
> 
> Did you have some bad experiences with that?


We have a drink that is similar to Yakult and people do drink it but that is generally in the rural areas and it is very healthy for the digestive system. I tried it a few times but it has very awkward taste and very hard to drink for those who are not use to it. Sugar level in Yakult is on the higher side and that is may be due to making its more drinkable.

Sugar amount in the meds you mentioned will not be that high (only i can guess) so that will be the only reason i think for making the oher yogurt drinks a better option that are sugar or fat free.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

what if i give Nilstat to all my birds? can i mix it in drinking water, I have like one gallon of water for the birds drinking everyday.


Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would give it to the birds that have been treated with antibiotics.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Yes, for the time being you are right
But 
i was just asking what amount will be added in a gallon of water if someone has to treat more birds with it 

Thanks


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Pij!

Its probably going to be too expensive to put Nilstat in water, as you'd need many bottles of it per day. It could easily cost $100 per day in a gallon of water. Also, dilution might render it ineffective too...its definitely a medicine best given individually.

If a really big flock of captive pigeons had a bad yeast infection, and HAD to be medicated via water, a vet would probably prescribe Fluconazole or similar. These come in cost effective tablets, and they are a bit more effective than Nilstat, in that they will destroy yeast anywhere in the body. Nilstat only kills yeast upon contact, say in the crop, mouth, and digestive system.

PS. I get Fluconazole from a regular drug store...it comes as an oral tablet for human thrush. One tablet would treat many birds...not saying you should use this though. Its only for serious yeast or fungal infection.


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