# Parents abandoned baby



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

The baby was born on Saturday or Sunday (just one, no sibling) and I noticed it wasn't growing as fast as it should be. I could practically see my other babies growing overnight! I kept watching and only saw the parents feed it once, although I'm sure they fed it more than that since it's still alive.
Anyway, I thought I better supplement and I fed it Exact last evening. After I replaced it in the nest I watched the parents and they seemed to be more interested in each other than the baby. I went out several times and neither was nesting on it. I took a soft towel and wrapped it around the baby.
When I went out this morning, the poor thing was cold as ice! I brought it in the house and got out the heating pad. 
I fed it before it was fully warmed, before I saw a thread that said not to  
At this point the bird has been inside with me about an hour. 
It's still alive and responsive when I touch it or talk to it. 
At this point it appears to be the size of baby that's about 2 or 3 days old. I'm wondering how much and how often to feed it?
I'm hoping that over the weekend it will show improvement. I have to go to NY tomorrow. I guess I'll have to take baby with me or it won't get fed or
should I return the baby to the parent's nest?


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't have any real answers for you, as I am new to all this. In the past, I have had to remove baby bluebirds from their nests when parents disappeared (parished or just left). Usually, If I have others the same age in other boxes, I would place the babies in with them. The new parents usually had no problem "adopting". For a baby so young, I would try everything else before taking it on a road trip- he may not be able to handle that, especially if he is weak. Perhaps someone with experience will be able to tell you exactly what to do soon. Good luck to you!


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Mich!


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

I just ran across this thread that may help too:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21569


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Yes, I looked at that one before. I really thank you for the suggestions!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

NitaS said:


> The baby was born on Saturday or Sunday (just one, no sibling) and I noticed it wasn't growing as fast as it should be. I could practically see my other babies growing overnight! I kept watching and only saw the parents feed it once, although I'm sure they fed it more than that since it's still alive.
> Anyway, I thought I better supplement and I fed it Exact last evening. After I replaced it in the nest I watched the parents and they seemed to be more interested in each other than the baby. I went out several times and neither was nesting on it. I took a soft towel and wrapped it around the baby.
> When I went out this morning, the poor thing was cold as ice! I brought it in the house and got out the heating pad.
> I fed it before it was fully warmed, before I saw a thread that said not to
> ...


Keep the baby warm and make sure to feed it every few hours when the crop empties. I don't think you should leave the baby with its parents, as they have rejected it once...and show no interest. They may sense the baby is sick or they are just not good parents.

Do you have any parents with an egg that is just about to hatch or with one newly hatched baby? If you do, you might see if they will take on rearing the baby and feeding it. Do not leave them alone with it until you are sure they have accepted it.

If not, you will have to hand rear and keep the baby with you. Add some extra probiotics to the formula and a drop of ACV. Please let us know how he is doing.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Well, the baby's been inside with me for about 2 hours now and is sleeping. It's breathing appears to be normal, and it still responds if I touch it or talk to it. It's little body has warmed up, so I'm wondering if I should try to feed it again or whether it's too soon.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If the crop is empty, you can feed him again.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

The other baby I have is almost a week older than this baby. If I put the baby in a nest box with those parents, will they adopt it, or because it's in a totally different nest than their own, will they ignore it? 
I have a pair in my breeder pen that had 2 eggs and neither hatched. They just laid another egg 2 days ago. Should I try putting the baby with them?
I'm just concerned that I don't have the time to properly care for this baby. I work a full time job and I know I can't take the baby with me to work.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The other baby I have is almost a week older than this baby. If I put the baby in a nest box with those parents, will they adopt it, or because it's in a totally different nest than their own, will they ignore it? 

I don't think the problem would be them adopting it, the problem would be is that their baby is much older and it will take advantage and hog its parents attention and might trample the little one. Also, this baby may still require some special enzymes and pigeon milk that these parents are not feeding anymore to their baby. 

I have a pair in my breeder pen that had 2 eggs and neither hatched. They just laid another egg 2 days ago. Should I try putting the baby with them?
I'm just concerned that I don't have the time to properly care for this baby. I work a full time job and I know I can't take the baby with me to work.

If those eggs had been at 18 days of incubating, then I would say try it, as the parents would have the crop milk, but now they are at the beginning of their cycle again, and will not have the crop milk

Can you find a rehabber to take on care, or do you know anyone who has pigeons that might have parents to use for surrogate?


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I'm really having trouble trying to get food in this baby's mouth. It doesn't open it and I'm afraid to try to open it myself. Maybe it's not hungry yet, but I'm not sure how it should look with an empty crop at this age. Is anyone aware of a post that shows this? 
Should I try water? I've read some of the posts about aspiration during feeding or watering and that really scares me! Frustration is starting to set in
I'm not aware of anyone around here with birds or a rehabber.


----------



## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Nita,

Please go back and look again at the thread that Michbird provided.....babies don't gape or open their mouths to receive the food...the thread explains that and provides a few different methods of feeding them. I'm thinking the "balloon and syringe method" would probably be easiest for someone who's never tried feeding a baby before.

Good luck,
Linda


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

*Update*

Well, the little thing is still hanging in there! I went to the local vet's and got a 20ml syringe and followed the instructions and the baby seems to get food. I just got done and it's crop looks full (based on my opinion). I also gave it 2 or 3 drops of water. It has opened it's eye and looks at me when I feed it. 
It has also pooped for what appear to be 4 times. Looks like a seed in one of the poops, could it be from when the parent last fed it?
I also picked up a tube of Probiase from the vet, but I'm not sure how much or how to get it in the baby.
Any more help out there?
P. S. How often and how much should I feed the baby?
Thanks,
Nita


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Nita,
I am glad your little one is still with you.

The seeds you found in the droppings, is normal. It was from the parent feeding it.

The medication called probiase , well I could not find it when I tried to research this. Didn't the vet tell you what it is for and how to apply it?! I would give them a call.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Hi Victor
Probias is a probiotic. It puts good bacteria back in the stomach.

Nita


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi again Nita, I entered how you spelled it initially and was not able to find it. I did though find a link re-directing me to simiar spelling to a goat site that tells how the probiotic is placed in the feed in powder form. But you said it was a tube product. 

I still think they should have given you instructions on how to administer this.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

He's an old vet and doesn't deal with birds. Mostly cattle and farm animals. I thought maybe someone on this site would be able to tell me, but you're the only one that's responding to me. 
Meanwhile, I just got done feeding it again and it seems to be very responsive. It's pooping and opening it's eyes. I just worry that it's getting enough to eat.  
Thanks Victor.


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

NitaS said:


> He's an old vet and doesn't deal with birds. Mostly cattle and farm animals. I thought maybe someone on this site would be able to tell me, but you're the only one that's responding to me.
> Meanwhile, I just got done feeding it again and it seems to be very responsive. It's pooping and opening it's eyes. I just worry that it's getting enough to eat.
> Thanks Victor.


Ahhh, that explains the reason for the probiotic.

It is somewhat frustrating when a vet is not avian qualified. I lost mine recently as he does research now for a medicine company. I dealt with this vet for the care of all my animals. I at least have an avian vet I can still go to right next door to the Pet-co I patronize.

I fully undertand his reason for probiotics.I give my 8 pigeons a dose weekly in their seeds in powder form. My pigeons also get ACV (Bragg's apple cider veiegar with the "mother") It is concentrate and found at most health stores and is very cheap...and goes a long way.I put a teaspoon and a half per 1 gal. of water, mixed well.

I use garlic, probiotics and ACV as a regular maintenence routine. 

When Barbie and Paris had their babies, Clayton and Emilie, I did not have to worry about helping their babies with any supplements, as they have been on the program since I have had them. Their babies turned out plump and healthy. I just started the young birds on supplements about a month ago.

I imagine due to the weekend, some members aren't on at present time.Generally the members are quite responsive.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Nita........I've been gone all day and was playing "catch up" and just saw this thread. I've got the same situation here with two babies. One was way behind the other one. I personally cannot tube feed a baby. I do it the hard way. I open beak, hold it open and squirt a bit of Exact in it's mouth. It swallows.......I repeat. Tedious? yes, but it works and will keep the baby alive. The longer you do it, the easier it gets and the baby doesn't fight as much. I've actually got a video of me doing this. These babies are a bit older than yours, but it's still the same principle. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

NitaS said:


> It's pooping and opening it's eyes. I just worry that it's getting enough to eat.
> Thanks Victor.


It seems to be on the right track. You are giving the baby Kaytee Exact, so all is going good for you and the baby.

It will "let you know" when it is hungry. Oh, every 3 hours in the day I would say. 

They grow very fast, so hang on and get the pictures taken.

It will see you and accept you as the "parent" since you have stepped up to that role.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

As far as the probiotics.......I don't know about what you've got. Is it a paste or gel or what? What I did was buy some Acidopholius (SP?) at the drug store. Come in capsules. Once a day, I open a capsule and mix it in with the Exact. Maybe with a tiny baby, 1/2 of the capsule.


----------



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Don't know if you've seen these links yet, but they were helpful to me in raising a baby pij for the first time recently...

how to feed, how much, how often
http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm

We used yoghurt instead of probiotic gel. Both are good I think.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

OK. I went out to close up the loft for the night and the parents kept looking around (I cleaned the loft today.) as if searching for their baby.
I took the baby out, leaving it in the nest bowl with the heating pad. I stood and watched mom. She was VERY curious. 
While I was spying I also say she and her mate "doing it". 
About 10 minutes later she got on the nest bowl and FED THE BABY! I just came back in and she is actually nesting on the baby and dad is right beside her!! I'm trying to contain my excitement, so should I let the baby with them again?


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

That's GREAT- Way to go! I would just let them take care of it now, but I would keep checking in now and then just to be sure 
I must say, I have been GLUED to this thread all day...learning, as well as praying for your baby. LOL- I haven't gotten much else done, but sure have learned alot!..Now, I better do something before hubby bans me from the puter


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

NitaS said:


> About 10 minutes later she got on the nest bowl and FED THE BABY! I just came back in and she is actually nesting on the baby and dad is right beside her!! I'm trying to contain my excitement, so should I let the baby with them again?


That is good. Please allow the parents to do their parental job, but I would _monitor _the situation though.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks, I couldn't agree more! The last thing I have time to do is feed every three hours!
Anyway, I plan to keep checking on them until its dark. I just hope I don't have a repeat performance of last night 
I took some hay out since it seems she wants to nest and the hot water bottle probably looks strange to her. Hopefully she'll add the hay to it and be happy!


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Don't worry about the hot water bottle Nita. The hay is good though. Just place it near so the parents can situated in the nest themselves, They like doing that. Do keep us up-dated.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Just came in again and now she's not on the baby. I probably have half an hour of light left. If she's not back on the baby, should I bring it inside again tonight, or since she fed it should I let it out there? I have no where to plug the heating pad in inside the loft, so that's not an option.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NitaS said:


> Just came in again and now she's not on the baby. I probably have half an hour of light left. If she's not back on the baby, should I bring it inside again tonight, or since she fed it should I let it out there? I have no where to plug the heating pad in inside the loft, so that's not an option.


I would bring it back in to be on the safe side, if she's not on it when it gets dark. You can also check that way to see how much she fed the baby.
That was the problem with my two. They were either feeding one and not the other or feeding one so very little it didn't really make a difference.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Hi Renee,
That's what I thought. If I could have plugged in the heating pad, I would have considered leaving it out there tonight. I fed the baby about 6:15 PM and when I watched her feeding it she's seemed to feed it a good bit.
I figure I have a little time yet to see what happens.
Thanks,
Nita


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Darn those pigeon parents! 

Renee is right. If they are not being resposible, you may have to step in again.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Well, the baby is now inside. I went out and both parents were up on the top perches appearing to be quite comfortable there, so I brought baby in. Tried to feed it some more, but it wasn't real hungry. So I kissed it goodnight. I'm usually up by 6 AM so I'll see what tomorrow brings. Thanks everyone for your help today


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Go to bed and get some rest.........LOL........you MIGHT need it!!!


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Baby made it through the night again.  I just got done feeding a bit ago. THe sunlight was coming through the window and I could actually see the crop filling up! Baby seems to be getting bigger. I'm leaving for NY about 9 AM. Any suggestions on whether I should take baby along or feed again before I leave and put it back with the parents?


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

NitaS,

I'm so sorry you are in such a dilemna, if it was me, I would opt to take the baby with me.

At least then you will know it is being cared for, and you won't know and worry about the little one, if you don't take him/her with you. I hope you have comfortable accomodations for her/him.

If I lived nearby, I certainly would help out.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Treesa.

I'll be gone about 11 hours. Even though mom fed the baby when I put it out there last evening, I'm just not certain she'll feed it again today.
My husband is not thrilled that I plan to take baby along, but oh well  
He's more of the notion that nature should take its course, but that's not me!
I'll take it in the nest bowl along with the supplies to feed it. I'll make sure it's comfy.
I really appreciate the offer. 
I'm pretty amazed that the baby is still OK. 
I'm waiting for my ACV from Braggs to come. Should be here Monday, so I can add that.
Do you know anything about the probiotic gel that I picked up at the vets?
I'd like to add some to the food but I'm just not sure how much. I thought maybe just a tiny drop? 
My real dilemma is when I have to go to work on Monday. I could take the baby and leave it in my car (with the windows open) and feed it on my breaks and lunch.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nita,

Is this an avian probiotic?...just add a tiny bit.

Make sure the baby is kept comfy and warm on its journey, and that it is fed whenever the crop is empty, have you seen any noticebale improvement in its activity and size?


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Good luck to you and your baby on your journey- I know you are doing great as his mommy, and you can tell his parents I said that too!


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Yes, Treesa, it seems to have grown. It is very vocal when it's time to eat and it continues to poop.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Hi Mari,
YOu better believe I let mom and dad know I wasn't happy with them


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That is a good indication, hopefully the baby will be vocal enough on Monday, to get it's parents attention and needs adressed.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Don't know about taking to work and leaving in car! HEAT can be very dangerous, especially at this time of year! EVEN with car windows open. Also, someone could always reach in and take the baby.

How late do you work? Maybe feed before work and after?

What do other members think???

VERY concerned!

Shi


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

I agree with Shi- Even with windows open, heat is too dangerous.  Many larger, mature pets have perished this way- I wouldn't chance it. Also...If anyone should spot it, you could be subject to animal cruelty laws.
I would try to find someone to care for him, or at least check up on him- a neighbor? Student? Maybe you could come down with the flu for a day to find someone- well, at least make your boss think your sick?


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NitaS said:


> Thanks Treesa.
> 
> I'll be gone about 11 hours. Even though mom fed the baby when I put it out there last evening, I'm just not certain she'll feed it again today.
> My husband is not thrilled that I plan to take baby along, but oh well
> ...


 NOT a good idea. The baby would be better off at home hungry for a few hours. Not the ideal situation and I'm certainly not recommending that, but it beats cooking it in the car. Even with windows open that would be a death sentence I'm sure.


----------



## wildlife-rehab (Jul 8, 2007)

hello
a baby this old needs to be kept warm at all time
u will need to get a small syringe to feed him

if you use egg food, water and a soaked dog biscuit called 'beta pet' which i find they do really well on
u need to blend this up in a mixer
and feed the baby every few hours, u can feel its crop below its neck to see if it needs feeding again.

you can make one lot up per day and keep it in a tub in the fridge, but i would make a new one each day.

i wouldnt advise you to put in back in the nest as the smaller baby always tends to die.

pigeons are fairly easy to rear, and i wish u luck

if there are any questions you would like to ask then feel free

abby


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Abby,

Don't want to change the subject but...I just want to WELCOME you to the forum, thank you for your input.


----------



## wildlife-rehab (Jul 8, 2007)

thank-you very much.
im glad i found this site.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

*Baby update*

Hello,
Baby seems to be thriving  I left it home yesterday while I went to NY & my daughter took care of it. It appears to be growing. I got a vitamin supplement and put some in water to give it a drink. 
As far as taking care of it while I work, I actually did call in sick today  It's been ages and ages since I did that. 
My husband expressed the same sentiments about taking the baby to work and leaving it in the car. That was pretty stupid of me to even consider.
I can feed it before I leave for work at 6:30 AM. I don't get home until approx. 3:45 PM, so it would seem to me that it's still too long to go between feedings? Am I correct?


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That is a long time, but a better solution then leaving it in the car. Can your daughter feed it somewhere in between the hours you are gone?


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Good morning Treesa,
No unfortunately, she also works and lives in another town. It was just luck yesterday that she could take care of it. So if I only feed the baby before and after work, will it still be OK?
Nita


----------



## wildlife-rehab (Jul 8, 2007)

that might be just a tad to long
is there no way u can take it work with you to feed in a break?
im lucky cuz my boss lets me bring anything in-and working in chemist thats pretty good.

i suppose you can feed it up in the morning. how big is it? if it has all its yellow feathers still then i wouldn't advise for it to be left that long, it needs at least one more feed.

tricky situation
if only u lived in england!
good luck


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I work for state government and I'm certain it would be frowned upon if I brought the baby to work. Believe me, I thought about putting it under my desk, if only it didn't squeak!
I wish I could post a picture, but I don't have a digital camera. It doesn't quite fill up the palm of my hand and it still has some yellow feathers.
Nita


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

Do you get a lunchbreak? Perhaps you could run home on lunch?


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Hi Mari,
Yep, that's part of my plan. Thanks goodness I've worked there 25 + years and have some vacation time built up! I live about 15 minutes away so it will take me a little longer than my 1/2 hour lunch break. 
One way or another I'll get this baby raised! 
Nita


----------



## michbird (Jul 5, 2007)

There you go 
... Now if I don't get off here and get some work done, I'll be in trouble- ha ha. (It's so easy to slack off when you're your own boss- something I need to work on more)
Best to you and baby!


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Since I am hand-feeding this baby, is it now my "pet"? Should I not put it in the loft with the others to fly in the future?


----------



## wildlife-rehab (Jul 8, 2007)

if it is a wild bird then no it isnt your pet, but id keep it in the house warm untill it starts to use its wings and when i can fly put it back in the loft-just keep an eye on it.

thats good that u only live 15 mins away, the baby will be ok with that extra feed, as by hte size u say is too small to wait that long.

theres always a way!


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Nita, I too think that is too long a period for the baby to go without food. Could you ask your supervisor if you could bring it with you for the few weeks it will still need to be fed? I have a friend, the rehabber who trained us, who takes sometimes boxes of birds to work with her and she works for the state. Her employers don't mind a bit.

Who knows, you may convert some people who have had negative thoughts about pigeons.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I guess I could ask tomorrow. I'm a supervisor so I'll have to ask the director.
Unfortunately, you wouldn't believe how some of the people act that I work with. If someone's getting away with something they think they shouldn't be they fight like little children  
I'm going to check my daughter's schedule and see if maybe between the two of us we can get in feedings every 3 1/2 hours. 
I also have to go out of town on Wednesday and Thursday, so I'll really be in a predicament then!
I sure wish there was a rehabber around here! This seems to get more complicated by the day.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

Hopefully the baby will get stronger and will be able to start eating on its on in 3 weeks, these things always happen at in-opportune times in our lives, believe me though, this too shall pass.

I had two 2 day old babies I had to hand raise when mom gave them up. It is a panic at first, but I think it is necessary for everyone who raises any kind of birds to learn, cause there comes a time when you got to play mom.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm very surprised that I've been able to take care of this little one. I would never have thought I could do something like this!
I'm hoping to be able to convince my husband to help out with the feedings. He's on night shift this week, so maybe if I beg and plead and make all kinds of promises


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Oh...that would be great, Nita. If he could just feed one or two meals, that would save you a lot of stress and worry.

It's just a little bit of work but will go a long way!


----------

