# How do you guys mix pigeon color combos?



## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

I saw some homing pigeon breeds that has mix colors/patterns from parents pigeons.

Well I have a very nice all white hen and grizzle cock as mated pair. This is my 3rd clutch and all these time I'm always getting all white squeakers..

I also love white and I think they are cool, but I thought I want some grizzle for a change.

Is there any special trick to this, or the white hen gene is more dominant?


I also have all black widow cock and checkered hen. 2nd clutch already and always the squakers is black cock and checkered hen(with brown silver).

I was hoping for a dark check which is the color I like.

So for my 2 pairs, it doesn't seem that the colors are combined between the parents.

Thoughts? thanks


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Things are happening correct you just don't understand why. Genotypes describe the genes making the bird what it is. Phenotype describes how your looks. The phenotype of your hen is all white. The genotype is unknown. There are multiply things ways to get all white pigeons. Some of those ways are: 1. Recessive white. Recessive gene that makes a bird all white with bull eyes. 2. Grizzle. Homoygote grizzles bred together can make all white birds with colored eyes if they are ash red based. Blues will leave behind a little black. 3. Piebald, which just adds white splashes. 4. Combination of the rest. You can have a recessive white homoygous ash red grizzle with piebald. When you go to breed a bird like that you may get very confused at first. There are multiply possibility.

Ok, your black bird now. Phenotype is black. Genotype is unknown. Is your bird all black with black tails. No strong fading on the underside. The gene that makes a blue based bird black is called spread. Spread is a complete dominant gene. That means that the heterygous stage and the homoygous state looks the same. That is you can't tell which it is just based on looking. In contrast look at grizzle. It's an incomplete dominant. You can tell a heterygous grizzle from an homoygous grizzle. Spread is not sex linked so breeding will not tell you the sex. Since your black is making non blacks it is only heterygous spread. If it was homoygous spread it would breed all black birds all of which in this situation would be heterygous. I do not know what you mean by brown silver. I think you mean dilute? Which is genetically called silver for blue birds. Others may call it silver dun. Is that what your referring to? That or your bird is split for brown. Either way the genes play out the same way. They are sex lined recessives. It's sex linked because cocks can have to slots for the gene and hens only have one. It's recessive so it needs fullness in the genome for it to show. For cocks that means they need to genes but hens only need one. Your cock had one gene and passed it daughter who now has one gene which is all she needs changing her color. 

Pictures always help. Read theses sites

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Pair them up with something else. The first mating grizzle and recessive white are inherited independently. By getting more recessive whites that means the grizzle carries it. Or the white is grizzle underneath and the combination of the two is giving you solid whites. Or it's a mix of pied genes.
The second pairing is a coincidence as black is not sex-linked. But dilute is, which is why the hens you are getting are silver. Only half of them will be dilute (silver or dun). This also means dad is carrying dilute.


----------



## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

^^ Thanks I think it's starting to makes sense...at least I think. haha I don't profess to understand genetics in pigeons, but it's amazing how much you guys know.

Well here's the picture of my grizzle cock and the white hen. White has a few red spots less than 10.

I'm already in my 3rd round of clutch but all of them are almost all white. I really want a grizzle. 

The only hens I have available right now is all black and recessive red. What do you think will happen if I pair any of them to this grizzle?


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

You never said the hen had spots. That means its not recessive white, atleast not fully. Its a homoygous grizzle probably ash red based if your seeing red. Piebald also if the bird is bull eyed. Can't say your get anything different. 50% should come out looking like the cock but the piebald could be making them more white. What do you mean all black and recessive red. Recessive red will cover a black bird. Anyways of the bird is not grizzle you can breed it to a grizzle and get 50% grizzle. Breeding the hen to an non grizzle should give you all grizzles.


----------



## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

the cock on the right is a cracker  








[/QUOTE]


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

No idea if she is a red grizzle or a red splash. More than likely both but not guaranteed. Has she ever been mated to a non-grizzle cockbird? If so, and she put out grizzle babies, then you'll know she's a grizzle.


----------

