# Recipes for putting weight on emaciated bird



## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hello everyone,

I have a bird that I have been treating for 7 weeks who has survived zinc toxicosis and severe crop stasis but is now emaciated. He has a problem with the Kaytee baby bird food--regurgitates it and his crop slows down. I have had the best results with Ensure, but he is still losing. He does eat a small amount on his own and has a great attitude. He has been on heat the entire time. He has had a full blood panel three times as well as zinc levels. The only abnormality is anemia. Xrays show the zinc object has decreased in size to barely an eighth of an inch in length--it is in his ventriculus. 

I am looking for any recipes you might have that I might be able to try gavaging him with. Perhaps egg whites? He is a wonderful little guy and has been through a lot, I just don't know if it is possible for him to regain the 75 grams he has lost during his ordeal. He has lost considerable muscle mass overall.

Your thoughts? Thank you in advance for any ideas.

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a bird that I have been treating for 7 weeks who has survived zinc toxicosis and severe crop stasis but is now emaciated. He has a problem with the Kaytee baby bird food--regurgitates it and his crop slows down. I have had the best results with Ensure, but he is still losing. He does eat a small amount on his own and has a great attitude. He has been on heat the entire time. He has had a full blood panel three times as well as zinc levels. The only abnormality is anemia. Xrays show the zinc object has decreased in size to barely an eighth of an inch in length--it is in his ventriculus.
> 
> ...


I was just talking w/member JGregg about this issue--egg whites/yolks--about a week ago. Apparently JGregg uses the egg yolk
when a weight gain is desired for a given bird. 

"The yolk makes up about 33% of the liquid weight of the egg. It contains all of the fat in the egg and slightly less than half of the protein."

from:

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...w=fat+egg+yolks&d=HrTv7OxsOG0K&icp=1&.intl=us

Sunflower seeds would help as well. Is this bird able to eat at all on it's own?

fp


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thank you for your input. Sunflower seeds, safflower seeds and some large roudybush pellets are the only things he is eating on his own, but it is not enough. Will not touch smaller seeds or Harrisons pellets. He is on a vitamin supplement, as well. I will start acupuncture on him again tomorrow, although he has a little too much interest in devouring the needles so i have to be very careful with him.

Thanks again, looking forward to other ideas as well.

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

What exactly is the 'zinc object' that the pigeon has ingested? If that was the means of entry.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Thank you for your input. Sunflower seeds, safflower seeds and some large roudybush pellets are the only things he is eating on his own, but it is not enough. Will not touch smaller seeds or Harrisons pellets. He is on a vitamin supplement, as well. I will start acupuncture on him again tomorrow, although he has a little too much interest in devouring the needles so i have to be very careful with him.
> 
> Thanks again, looking forward to other ideas as well.
> 
> L


Acupuncture? Sounds quite interesting. Few would venture to try that. Should help quite a bit I would think.

Please keep us updated...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Mr. Squeaks, I knew a cat who regularly received acupuncture treatments. I hope for EarthaPidge's sake that the treatments are self-performed, it
can get pricey in a heartbeat.

fp


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

I assume the object was a staple or nail that was dropped by a construction person inside my aviary. I was so meticulous about combing the floor for things like this, but apparently one escaped my view. I feel absolutely awful about the whole thing but don't want my "guilt" to cloud the reality of this little guy's future. If he doesn't start gaining, I fear I will sadly have to euthanize him. He just doesn't seem ready yet and he's my bird who is an ambassador for all pigeons--he convinces everyone who thinks pigeons are awful, that they are pretty amazing birds. I hate the thought of losing him.

L


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi FP,
Yes, the acupuncture treatments will be self performed. I am a trained veterinary acupuncturist, so I'm legit! ;-)

L


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm so sorry to hear this, and hope he will start his way back around the corner
with all of this. I will call the member and get the exact recipe and pm you with the details.

fp


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thank you so much FP! 

Best,
L


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi EarthaPidge,


I do not know what a weight-gain formula would be as such, but I would wonder too about wishing to be kind to his Kidneys and to his Calcium Metabolism with respect to too much Proteans...

Probably, if naively, if it were me, and I was tube-feeding him anyway while he eats somewhat on his own...

If the sense I made of it had to do with him not eating/being fed "enough" all tolled ( and it takes a lot of eating for them to gain weight back too of course...) FOR gainging his weight back...

I would mix up 'formulas' which contain something more and more interesting than commercial powders.

I would take a Kitchen Blender or a small clean Coffee Bean grinder that is of the blade-blender kind....

And mix together some Goji-Berries, some non-salty dried Sea Weeds...some Flax Seeds, some Rape Seeds, some Almonds...and some sprouted Barley ( ie 'Malt') and blend them into a fine enough powder to pass through the Gravage or 'tube', even if this meant sieving the dry ingredients first, so when mixed with Water, they would pass well...and, I would suit this TO the 'largest' tube or Gravage size the Bird would be tolerant of, to make it all easier.

And to this 'powdered' result then, I'd add some powdered 'Super Greens' or powderd Chlorella, a little Olive Oil ( fresh of course, never old shelf stuff) and even a good BIG "squig" of 'Nutrical', with enough good clean Water for making the consistancy one wishes for 'the tube'. And likely I wqould lastly add...some Digestive Enzymes and Pro-Biotics.

Seems to me their gaining back lost weight usually has to do with them getting enough food into themselves, on a continuous basis, and this of course is something the convelesent Pigeon or Dove only sometimes manages by themselves...and or to which tyhey need to build up gradually with our help and supplimentational feedings, just as you are already doing.

So, if one is to feed them tube-wise, I say, may as well make it as nutritious as possible, while not making it have too much proteans.

For that matter, some Collard Greens would probably be a great ingredient to try blending 'in' to the home-made 'meal' or coarse powder one can do in a Blender...if one does not have Chlorella or 'Super Greens' powder handy.


Good luck!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks for that idea. I thought about this before but was afraid to put a peanut butter consistency type of food into his crop since it it is not completely back to normal yet. He might have suffered some nerve damage from when his crop was severely distended (with water, etc) but has since regained motility which is a relief. But I will try to make a concoction of seeds that isn't very thick and see if he can pass it.

Thanks!

L


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

In AVIAN MEDICINE: PRINCIPLES AND APPLICATION, p. 1039, published by Wingers, 1994 and still available here: www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com

...it says that the common symptoms of zinc poisoning are excessive thirst and urination; GI problems, going light, weakness, lowered red blood cell count, turning blue from lower oxygen in the blood, hyperglycemia and seizures. It can damage the kidneys, GI and pancreas.

Calcium EDTA is suggested to chelate the zinc and D-penicillamine is helpful. It's hard to tell zinc poisoning from that of lead but the treatment is the same. You need to get rid of whatever's in there that has the metal and a vet may be able to run a magnet probe down into the bird to get it. Otherwise, you're stuck trying to flush the bird with bulk cathartics like sodium sulfate, or you can try activated charcoal or mineral oil. Surgery has been done but it's certainly not the safest way and you gotta' watch the RBC count.

Pidgey


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Phil,
I will try adding some of the things you mentioned in my dedicated coffee grinder (I have one that is never used for coffee). He is already on vits and probiotics/enzymes, but you have given me some good ideas for variety. 

Thanks!

L


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Eartha,

Hope all these ideas help out in putting some weight on.

I just wanted to add that I remember reading a couple of years ago, posted by either Snowbird or Dano7, that he was a big believer in using high quality dry dog or puppy chow for the purpose of putting weight on....that this was a good alternative because of the high protein and fat content. I think he was able to find an organic one that also contained probiotics as well. I will try to find the previous post if I can. He would soak the dry nuggets till they were puffy and cut them to pea sized to hand feed.

Don't know if this would help or not, but figured I'd mention it.

Good luck.
Linda


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Pidgey,

I have already consulted with the harrisons text you mentioned and he has been succesfully chelated (all of the zinc has been removed from the object). The remaining object is probably made from steel and is lodged in the thick muscular part of the ventriculus making it extremely difficult to remove. Surgery has been considered throughout, but he doesn't seem sturdy enough to withstand the procedure. It's a catch-22 situation for sure. We are monitoring his PCV and it has risen from 24% to 40% over the 7 week period. I would expect it to be closer to 50% for a homer so that is our goal now.

L


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Linda, I was wondering if anyone ever fed dog or cat food so this is good to know. I do have some Hills A/D that I considered giving him. His kidney function is normal at this point, so I feel ok with feeding higher protein, but just worried about feeding a pigeon meat.

L


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Since you're well equipmented, is it possible to give him some additional blood from another bird donor to bring his blood cell count back up a little quicker?

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi EarthaPidge,

I am sorry to hear your little guy is not doing as well as you would like.

Nona, I hate do disagree with you but, I recently had a bird in with GI stasis issues and I tried something like what you are suggesting and while it sounds like a good idea in principle, that's why I tried it, for some reason, perhaps the thick buttery consistency of it, really shut her crop down to where it had to be flushed. EarthaPidge, I don't know if the same would happen with your little guy, but I thought I would let you know my experience.

I did have good luck mixing a fair amount of honey in with the Kaytee about 50/50, honey has about 3 calories a gram and will help do what you want. Please try the Kaytee again, mix it fairly soupy as well. Also, I don't know how much you have been feeding him at one time, but what also worked well for me was to do 7-8 cc every couple of hours instead of a few large feedings, the bird did much better with less food more often in her crop. Phil has some good thoughts as well, and I did add digestive enzymes, probiotics and vitamins as well. Finally, I would also be giving Milk Thistle twice daily in with the feeding. I just open up a capsule and sprinkle a little in with the food. I am sure this whole toxic episode was quite hard on the liver and this will help heal it.

I hope this helps,

Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi EarthaPidge, 

I can not tell if you had notice my reply above...

But, I would not confuse 'fats' with nutrition in cases like this.

Commercial peanut butters will not be as convenient or agreeable consistancy wise, as the wholesome Seeds his own Gizzard will make into 'butter' in his terms, and, the Oils in various normal seeds will take care of the 'fats' issue nicely enough with no special bother. A little new bottle Olive Oil will nicelu suppliment ths kinds of 'fats' which will aid jim in various processes, includeing Vitamine assimilation from what is available in the rest of his diet with no need per-se to use Vitamines as such, unless his Zinc condition redcommends some chelated kinds specifcally, and I do not know enough on that score to say which ones he would need as suppliments.

Sources of chlrophyll can be very important to our Pigeons, even though generall, we may never have reason to think about it.

So too, various antioxydents, and sources of Magnesium for Calcium uptake ( ie Collard Greens or other vegetative 'Chlorophyll' containing ingredients rightly elected, and Goji Berrys of course)...as well as gentle amounts of Natural Sugars ( Malt, for example...)

Black Cherry or Sour Cherry extracts or concentrated Juices are also very good formula ingredients for the infant, ill or convelesent Pigeon or Dove.

Powders made months or years ago in a factory, made mostly of the cheapest possible Soy Beans with whatever augmentation added from who knows what sources of least expensive or easiest ingredients, and kept in a can since, will never equal what one may make "fresh" one's self, out of wholesome fresh ingredients, no matter how convenient the canned powders may be logistically.

At most, for any occasion, I myself only use 'some' canned Powder, and the rest is all other items I grind up or blend into our own "powders" or 'meal'...

Wild Pigeons and Doves graze on seasonal or dries small Berrys, and other fruiting Bodys of plants and shrubs, as well as grazing and forraging various bitter 'Weeds' and other Leavy Greens.

These things are important for the convelesent Pigeon, even as they are important to all Pigeons, and Seeds alone are not and never were their Diet in Nature, and should not be their only diet in our care either of course..!

Plus, it is fun TO whoop up these things for them!

...these formulas taste great, and they love them.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Ron, I appreciate you posting your experience. I, too, think I will not try the thick nutbuttter concoction at this point. Milk thistle is a great idea too. He did ok when I pulverized the Roudybush pellets so I might try that again. With the Kaytee, I was feeding him 6cc every 2 hours because he definitely cannot take large feedings at this point. He has had to have his crop flushed twice so far.

Regarding the blood transfusion.....at 40% he is not really a candidate for a transfusion, but if he dips into the "transfusion numbers" I will not hesitate to try it.

L


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I was just thinking that, amongst all the other problems he's had from that, it might boost the oxygen transport and help with the other things. 

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

EarthaPidge, please try the honey, lots of calories and energy. Moreover, I use whole unpasteurized honey and I believe this kind of honey does have healing properties that are not well recognized.

All the best,

Ron


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Eartha,

Just went looking through previous threads and the dog food was Organix Canine formula.....

Here is a link to the products through PetCo, but I'm sure it can be gotten other places...including the link b/c it shows the ingredients....it looks like good stuff.

http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?familyid=14457

Linda


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

EarthaPidge said:


> Thanks Linda, I was wondering if anyone ever fed dog or cat food so this is good to know. I do have some Hills A/D that I considered giving him. His kidney function is normal at this point, so I feel ok with feeding higher protein, but just worried about feeding a pigeon meat.
> 
> L


Eartha,

The recipe that JGregg uses is one egg yolk per day divided into as many feeding times per day that will be given. So if three meals, then the yolk
is divided into thirds, and the meal is made fresh each time with the portion of 
egg yolk and water-soaked Science Diet Canine Maintenance--you could use a different brand--pureed to go through the syringe/tube. The brand that Snowbird/Dano7 uses I believe is Newman's Own Senior dog food, Linda, unless a recent switch was made as this was recently emailed to me. In fact, Snowbird/Dano7 prefers Newman's Own Senior dog food over Harrison's formulated/pelleted diet for birds  .

fp


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

fp,

He must be using the Newman's Own now, because the Organix reference is from an old post on PT......thanks for the info.

Linda


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Linda, I see we both posted @ 9:29...and I guess Dano7 does have a 'new
favorite', although I'm sure any of the the brands being mentioned would be
appropriate. 

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Earthpidge. It is always nice to hear from you.

We have had a number of pigeons with lead poisoning which was diagnosed by our vet through radiographs. All of these birds were desperately ill. I think I would rather care for a bird with almost anything other than lead poisoning.

Our birds were treated by injection with calcium versinate and we had to hand feed them. We were never able to save any of them. One lived about 3 weeks but we finally had to euthanize. Even after all the lead was gone, their bodies simply could not recover.

Our vet has a vet assistant who worked for a number of years at the NC State School of Veterinary Medicine. She said that while she was there they did use peanut butter in the formula with good results for treatment of lead poisoning. Apparently the peanut butter helps bind the lead. She told us to use 1/2 tsp per formula feeding. With the zinc gone from your bird then it would probably not be necessary.

I have a dove diet that is easily digested and balanced:

1/2 cup dry Purina Kitten Chow
1 cup warm water
1/2 cup Prosobee, Isomil, Osmolite or Ensure
1 cup dry Gerber High-Protein baby cereal

Soak kitten chow in warm water until soft. Add Prosobee (or other) at ready to feed concentration. Add baby cereal. Blend all well and then strain.

Can be frozen. Food should be fed a lukewarm temps.

Now, this diet is for newborns or fledglings but should be very adequate for a sick pigeon.

 I think it is so cool that a vet would ask our opinion. Good luck with your little one.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Thank you Maggie for your nice long informative post. I was told by an avian vet that the peanut butter is used to "drag" out metal pieces, rather than chelate. Not sure if I interpreted your sentence correctly about "binding." And on another note I think ALL vets should ask groups like this for advice since you guys are the ones who have lived with and experimented with lots of different treatments. This is how stuff becomes mainstream IMO. 

Anyway, I drove out to Long Island today to suture up a pigeon who had been attacked by a rabbit and when I got home, Mitch, the one you have all been helping me with was dead. I was only gone 3 hours. I am devastated. I did a necropsy on him and found multiple problems related to the ingestion of the zinc nail or staple, although I could not find the actual piece. I will radiograph him and the gi tract at work tomorrow just to make sure. There were multiple adhesions attaching the gizzard to the proventriculus and body wall and a large blood clot where a granuloma had formed on one side of the ventriculus where the nail may have attempted to exit. 

Well thanks for all of your ideas. Mitch was my beautiful one-winged boy who loved everyone and taught us all a great deal about life, acceptance, and perseverance. I will bury him up at the farm, his favorite place, near his girlfriend Eartha and his pal Appaloosa Girl. 

L

p.s. here is a pic of Mitch...


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi I was told by a breeder and racer in my area that he gives his adult pigeons 3-4 drops of Cod Liver oil every other day. It helps with the vitamin they need and also helps to put weight on and keep it on. He swears by it. 


Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss! It must have punctured the ventriculus in at least one place then, huh?

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Earthpidge.

I am very sorry to hear that Mitch succumbed to his illness. Thanks for posting a photo of him, he certainly was a lovely bird. Warm thoughts your way.

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I am so sorry Mitch died. He was a handsome pigeon and I know you'll miss him a great deal.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about the passing of your beloved Mitch.

He certainly was loved. Sending warm and comforting thoughts your way.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi

I forgot to (try to  ) explain the peanut butter comment. The lead that our pigeons had ingested was more like small particles on the radiograph the vet showed us - nothing like a nail or staple. It was my understanding the calcium versinate was supposed to neutralize the lead and the peanut butter could possibly adhere or bind to the particles and help eliminate the particles from the body. 

I hope this makes sense.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hugs And Comforting Thoughts On Your Loss, EarthaPidge!! I Am Sooo Sorry!!*


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your beloved Mitch. What a handsome bird he was! 

Thank you for making yourself available to assist the rabbit attacked pigeon. I saw that one posted on FPRC and NYCPRC. 

Terry


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Eartha,

I'm so sorry about Mitch.

Linda


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Eartha, so sorry to hear the news about Mitch. He was a very elegant and noble looking little fellow, and it seems that he reflected the love that he felt
back to others in order for him to become a 'goodwill ambassador' for pigeons.
Everyone's life is a little richer, a little deeper...I know you will miss him.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Eartha, 

Oh no...

I was thinking about Mitch all day too, expecting him to keep getting better and putting that weight back on.

I am so sorry, such a beautiful Bird.


Phil
Las Vegas


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