# White Pigeons Released At Funeral Today



## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

Hi everyone,

I was attending a family members funeral today in Lomita/Palos Verdes, CA. Much to my surprise a man with a woman who own a business releasing white pigeons (doves) at funerals was there, at the end of the funeral the man opened a white wicker basket and handed three white pigeons one by one to certain family members to release one at a time and then the rest of his flock was released together, The first one took off to a tree and sat there, the second one flew right above us to a tree, the third one went up and circled which then the first released bird followed after it.. The rest of the flock released and headed home with the two joining them. Well the one above us sat there looking worried. I noticed it was a very young pigeon and was probably not experienced in it's homing skills. 

The man's comments on the bird was "hopefully it will follow the flock soon". I was so upset watching this bird because you could see it was scared and didn't want to move. The man got in his truck and left the bird sitting in the tree. If I had a ladder I would of went up and got it, I watched this bird sitting there the entire time we all drove away.. 

My questions if anyone knows? what are the odds of this poor bird finding it's way back? And is this a normal procedure to bring young birds with others that are skilled at homing? Is that how they teach them? 

If the bird had been left in the basket with the entire flock it probably would of had a chance to make it back, but since it was one of the ones grabbed to hand to a family member it didn't fly and didn't have a chance. I'm guessing this is what happened??

I am really upset with the way the man handled his birds and just left this poor young pigeon alone out in the world to defend itself, and the worst part there was a huge redtail hawk in the sky as we pulled up to the burial grounds... I'm just so sad thinking of that cute white bird all alone. 

The man said the birds were flying home to Hacienda Heights which is about a 40 minute car ride from where they were released from.

Andi

Andi


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Andi, 

I have had several birds that I thought may be release birds come to my house and eat, drink, rest up a few days and leave. The thing that worries me is that a healthy, trained racing pigeon (in my opinion) would not land as soon as he is released.

I homed my pigeons in a five mile radius. I am so afraid that I am going to loose one, I go block by block. Twice when I released my birds, I had one go to the wire. I had to go back with a few more birds several times to get them home. What I discovered both times is that they were not feeling well. I was only 2 and 4 blocks away from the house.

I hope he makes it home!


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i think the young bird should not have been released by itself first but along with the main flock. that way it will be more comfortable and since pigeons have a flocking instinct it should follow the main flock home.

just a little story. when i was schooling and during an outdoor assembly session we released a white pigeon for freedom. i dont know if this is right but the bird flew straight thru a classroom window (it was open) on the fifth floor. fortunately an austrain friend and i caught it and took it home. we were young and didnt know much then. on the long run i think we did something right.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Andi,

I'm so sorry to hear the poor youngster stayed in the tree. I know how ill at ease you must feel, I would be to.

I myself would not have released a youngster in this way, it would have been better for him to give a more experienced flyer to family members to release. Birds that are used to other people holding them would react different.

Most people who have a ceremonial release buisnesses have their birds very well trained before any are released. Then there are those who don't train well, or release white kings instead of an actual white homing pigeon.

Perhaps this experience frightened it, and hopefully it will fly home once it gets over the panic.

Is there any way you can go back and see if the bird has left?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Anytime this happens it takes away from the memorial service, IMO.

Our Frosty, who recently died, was the offspring of some pigeons that were released at a wedding. I think there were 20 or more that would not leave the area so finally the owners of the hotel called to try to get someone to pick them up. They said cats had already killed some. My rehabber friend went there and took all the remaining ones home with her. I guess to the breeder the ones that don't make it home are a a disposable byproduct of their business.

Andi, I'm sorry about the death of a member of your family.


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## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

I believe my very own Hey Zues was a Ceremonial release bird who did not make it back home. Unfortunatley, this sounds all to common. 40 minutes driving sounds far for this youngster to attempt alone with a red-tail lurking the skies. Our thoughts are with you and this bird. Sorry for your loss. Sorry that this bird did not follow the flock...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Is there a chance you could go back and see if he is still there?
Two of my rescues refused to leave the church and a worker there was kind enough to pick them up and bring them to me.
If he is still there he must be starved by now and would come to eat if you offer him food and you could catch him.

Reti


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Out of curiousity, what kind of pigeons are used for ceremonial releases. is it white homers of some white common.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sending hugs and condolences on your family loss, Andi!!

I'm so sorry to hear about the dove. I, too, would like to know if he's still there...


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
i am the director of the national white dove release society our bylaws require thatonly well trained healthy homing pigeons be used for release,unfortunately there are some folks out there that dont follow any guidelines.. This little bird will surely not know where to go .. If you intend to have a release at a function be sure and use a repitable release professional you can goto http://www.nwdrs.net/ and see if there is a professional close to where you want the released from .. I am so sorry for this bird ....


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

First is there a way to check and see if the bird made it home. Birds sometimes will sit for a while then get up and fly home. Very tame birds would be apt to this even more. Not knowing if the bird made it home leads to speculation. White dove release is becoming more popular. And at times these people have less knowledge at first. But if they stay the course they learn. Many whites need to be bred right NOT all but a white bird that has been bred down from less qualitry birds breeds less quality birds. With that said. It is harder to find race type whites A 40 minute drive would be much shorter by air Lets say it was a 30, 40, mile flight And this person may have made the release from the location befor the funeral to test the birds. They may have all returned. Being white release birds go the four directions. I would use only old birds that were seasoned out And if say the releases have a set distance say 100 miles. The average bird will make it home most often. Longer releases Birds need to bred better not just for the color. That leads to the color out cross. It will hurt color for 2 to 3 years But improve quality so much. I have seen several whites that were basicly ill fit just in body type to send down the road. Been bred for color not performance. And I have seen some very good looking whites that has all it takes to fly. White birds stand out. But a group of white birds may not so much For hawks anyway. Also perhaps going back to some eye color on some whites rather then the more then commone bull eyed whit now days might be good. The old belgium plentix had the violet eye At least the ones I had and others had. They won races. What I am saying whites need to be bred well to perform do not just go out get white birds and think they can fly well. Good ones are out there and good ones can be made from weaker ones just color breed them out.


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

This is the kind of stuff that gives people who work hard with there birds a bad name. Sounds to me like the bird was a young not trained out bird. My young will do this too but I don't take them to do services. I have a Nice Hotel here they had a guy come two years ago and did a release the birds went right up into trees and stayed. The Hotel said it took weeks for them to leave.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Robert,

This guy from Hacienda Heights has been in the release business for a long time. I think that he use to live somewhere else and relocated to Hacienda Heights a few years ago. I have his brochure and looked up his website awhile back when one of my friends asked me if I would release my birds at her daughters wedding. I tried to find her someone responsible to release the birds. I would have picked this man. He certainly has nice strong looking birds. I think that he releases at the Dodger Stadium. 

I hesitated with him only because he will allow people to pick the birds up at his house, instead of having someone who cares about the birds with them at all times. I know that would have been what my friend would have gone with because it was the least expensive option. I could see so many terrible things happening to those birds from being left in a hot car, to God only knows what. My friend does not like pets because she has allergies. I just thought that his birds would not have been first and foremost on anyones list that day. So I passed on passing along his brochure.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

My condolences to you & your family on your loss Andi.

I'm so sorry to hear about the poor little pij.
I do hope he/she has found a safe haven. 

Please post any updates.

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

andinla said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was attending a family members funeral today in Lomita/Palos Verdes, CA. Much to my surprise a man with a woman who own a business releasing white pigeons (doves) at funerals was there, at the end of the funeral the man opened a white wicker basket and handed three white pigeons one by one to certain family members to release one at a time and then the rest of his flock was released together, The first one took off to a tree and sat there, the second one flew right above us to a tree, the third one went up and circled which then the first released bird followed after it.. The rest of the flock released and headed home with the two joining them. Well the one above us sat there looking worried. I noticed it was a very young pigeon and was probably not experienced in it's homing skills.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear of your loss. 

I would complain to the Funeral Director how unprofessional this release was. The family should not have to pay for that "service" it sounded horrible !  

Perhaps Lee who has posted on here as the National Director for White Dove Release organization can use his influence to get your family a full refund from this poor excuse for a Dove Release business. 

Perhaps if he fails in that regard, he will consider having his organization refund the monies themselves. After all, a few more complaints to Funeral Directors, and it will hurt all of the members of the Dove Release Industry. 

Let's see how compassionate these release businesses are, or is it all about the money ? Perhaps they are inviting goverment regulation ? Before they simply send another list of businesses who pay a fee to be on "The" list.... why not make good on this situation ?


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
i spoke to the man that released these birds at the funeral in question . i can assure you that he is a professional and that the birds he used were trained to be handled by other people we have handlers in our organization that teach funerl personell to handle the birds .. The bird in question aparently was ill therefore it went to the tree and landed .. as you may know it is excedengly hard to tell when a bird is sick manytimes they will appear to be healthy as it is a way for them not to be picked out by the other birds as being weak and therefore they will be accepted to the flock ... the truth of the matter is that a handler never knows what the birds are going to do when released and of course when the birds are in the air the handler does not have controll over what they do .. Our people spend many dollars training these birds and spend much time with them our birds are worth much money (700.00 each and up) but more important is the fact that we love them and no dollar value can replace that love ..young birds do fly many miles in the racing field there is a young bird race every year where the birds fly much more than 40 miles sometimes a distance of 150 plus miles . Release lofts dont teach their birds to "follow the leader" so each bird is trained to fly home on its own as sometimes we are required to release just a single bird for a funerals,birthdays,proposals and so on .. again i am sorry that this release didnt go as well as you would have liked it to go but these birds have a mind of their own .. If you have any questions about the release industry feel free to contact me [email protected]


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here,
> i spoke to the man that released these birds at the funeral in question . i can assure you that he is a professional and that the birds he used were trained to be handled by other people we have handlers in our organization that teach funerl personell to handle the birds .. The bird in question aparently was ill therefore it went to the tree and landed .. as you may know it is excedengly hard to tell when a bird is sick manytimes they will appear to be healthy as it is a way for them not to be picked out by the other birds as being weak and therefore they will be accepted to the flock ... the truth of the matter is that a handler never knows what the birds are going to do when released and of course when the birds are in the air the handler does not have controll over what they do .. Our people spend many dollars training these birds and spend much time with them our birds are worth much money (700.00 each and up) but more important is the fact that we love them and no dollar value can replace that love ..young birds do fly many miles in the racing field there is a young bird race every year where the birds fly much more than 40 miles sometimes a distance of 150 plus miles . Release lofts dont teach their birds to "follow the leader" so each bird is trained to fly home on its own as sometimes we are required to release just a single bird for a funerals,birthdays,proposals and so on .. again i am sorry that this release didnt go as well as you would have liked it to go but these birds have a mind of their own .. If you have any questions about the release industry feel free to contact me [email protected]


Lee, thank you for this post. I wrote a long reply yesterday morning and then just deleted it. 
Although, none of us knew who this person was that released the bird, everyone was ready to automatically blame him and not the bird. I essentially said the same thing as you, just got a little long winded......
None of know what our birds are going to do when released and I don't care how much training they've had. At any given release, we can have one, two or a dozen birds decide for whatever reason to do something totally different than they did yesterday. 
If it was a simple as "train" and "they will do what they are supposed to do", then none of us would ever complain about the lost birds. 
I don't understand however, how this person could say that the bird was "sick" (unless it made it home, do you know?) now, but didn't know it was sick before he released it. 
In any case, because a pigeon doesn't do what we think they are supposed to do is not ALWAYS the handlers fault. Once they leave the basket, they are on their own.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here,
> i spoke to the man that released these birds at the funeral in question . i can assure you that he is a professional and that the birds he used were trained to be handled by other people we have handlers in our organization that teach funerl personell to handle the birds .. The bird in question aparently was ill therefore it went to the tree and landed .. as you may know it is excedengly hard to tell when a bird is sick manytimes they will appear to be healthy as it is a way for them not to be picked out by the other birds as being weak and therefore they will be accepted to the flock ... the truth of the matter is that a handler never knows what the birds are going to do when released and of course when the birds are in the air the handler does not have controll over what they do .. Our people spend many dollars training these birds and spend much time with them our birds are worth much money (700.00 each and up) but more important is the fact that we love them and no dollar value can replace that love ..young birds do fly many miles in the racing field there is a young bird race every year where the birds fly much more than 40 miles sometimes a distance of 150 plus miles . Release lofts dont teach their birds to "follow the leader" so each bird is trained to fly home on its own as sometimes we are required to release just a single bird for a funerals,birthdays,proposals and so on .. again i am sorry that this release didnt go as well as you would have liked it to go but these birds have a mind of their own .. If you have any questions about the release industry feel free to contact me [email protected]


About how far is the average release point that many of your members release from.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I do not have the type of strong birds that can be released many miles away.

My birds are mixed and most of them happen to be white. I home them only a couple of miles away from my house, because I release them everyday unless I can see a hawk. After they have been released, they may have to 
fly for their lives, I want them fit, and I want them to know their way home.

If I was asked to do a release (even though all of my birds are not racers) within the radius that they have been trained, I would do it. My birds are spoiled and eat to much. They need exercise. If one landed on a wire, I could always go back and get him.

I trust my birds to be handled, but I don't trust every human when handling my birds. I would however trust my birds to a professional handler that would hand the bird to another person but, I don't think that it is a good idea to accept money, and let the fate of my birds go off with a complete stranger.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I am so happy that the idea of releasing birds is not popular in my country. if i can recall right we have a bad incident during our independence day. white pigeons were given to members of paliment for release and for some reason a pigeon died in the releases hand fo without flying he fell down dead. I think this had put away the idea of pigeon releasing.....


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

re lee said:


> About how far is the average release point that many of your members release from.


Lee here, 
the average last year was around 20 miles its hard to make any money with distances farther than that altho there are some handlers that do a lot farther my birds this year will fly some 2000 miles during training and conditioning and during releases .. i lose about 2% of my birds but it takes a lot of training and care also a person must have good stock


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here,
> the average last year was around 20 miles its hard to make any money with distances farther than that altho there are some handlers that do a lot farther my birds this year will fly some 2000 miles during training and conditioning and during releases .. i lose about 2% of my birds but it takes a lot of training and care also a person must have good stock


At that average You should not see many lost. Do you make a release from the release point before the contract release beings it is a short course. I know the white release is getting more involved in weddings, funerals, and functions, what are some of the standard rates for these


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

re lee said:


> At that average You should not see many lost. Do you make a release from the release point before the contract release beings it is a short course. I know the white release is getting more involved in weddings, funerals, and functions, what are some of the standard rates for these


Lee here,
I try never to release from the exact point when i train i make sure they know the release area . The object here is to get the birds to circle some before they fly off home this way it puts on a little show for the people..the nwdrs has about 40 businesses all over the us and canada. so the prices differ somewhat i charge 100.00 for a single bird 350.00 for 12 birds and then 10.00 per bird sfter that . i do many freebies for veterans ,police officers,firefighters so it all works out


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Pigeon Release Contractor needs to make good.*



Feather said:


> ............I trust my birds to be handled, but I don't trust every human when handling my birds. I would however trust my birds to a professional handler that would hand the bird to another person but, I don't think that it is a good idea to accept money, and let the fate of my birds go off with a complete stranger.




My birds would never work....they are racers, not homers.....and fat chance if I would let anyone handle the birds. We recently discussed at our last club meeting when we will hold "Handling" classes...guys in the sport, have to be taught how to touch another man's or a lady's race birds. Because if you handle them a little rough...then I react like you just smacked my kid. And then we ain't going to get along ! And at a release point, if you blinked, then you missed the release, they are just gone. So, I would have to figure out a routine to make them slow up...circle the relase point for a moment or two....

I see the pigeon release business as any other, it is service related. I suspect, that many who get into this business, are thinking....let's see....three 12 bird releases @ $300 is...let me get out my calculator to figure that out...$$900 And then their head dances with sugar plums....cause they figure they might only be making $9 an hour delivering pizza...so BIG money. The part that get's lost is the service part. And it's getting those birds to the release point, and then releasing them. That is the service part...and that is the hard part. Heck, any racing guy or gal, can figure out how to get their birds to fly home from 20 miles...you don't have to train for that...they are hatched with that ability.

It's getting in the car and arriving at the right wedding or funeral, and then being in position for the release, and maybe hanging around the extra hour or so...it's this service part, that they mess up. Which is why, they would rather just dump off a basket with a single bird and collect a hundred bucks. It's the time for the handler to show up and hang around, it's the expense they made in a couple pretty baskets, and in some cases, the little trinkets they give out. 

For the most part, my major complaint is they are like so many other service business today, long on promise, and short on delivery. 

If the business owner in this case, made a mistake and delivered a sick bird, then he did not fulfill his end of the deal. I would win this in court, in a heart beat !! He should just apologize, and refund the monies. Unfortunately, when dealing with such contractors, you often have to bring in a third contractor, an attorney. 

I think the lesson here, is not to pay any monies up front, and read the contract. If you don't like portions of the contract, then cross it off with a pen and negotiate. Don't let the fact that they work with pigeons, cause you to forget, that you are making a business arrangement. 

In this case, I am sure that the family just simply wants closure.


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

In this case, I am sure that the family just simply wants closure.[/QUOTE]


Lee here,
Well in fact many of our people in this business do have racing stock its all in how you train them It is always up to you who handles your birds you can just stay with them like i do and let them go unlike a release for a race where they are carted for many miles then let go by someone else ..You know i have been to a club meeting also and in my oppinion it will stop the racing fancy because they are always arguing and get little done other than bumping heads.circling can be taught to a bird if you arent teaching to dumbdown by only teaching the combine approach . The release business is a service industry we serve the public and do it well our birds are used for years to release unlike racing birds that are culled after they lose a race in the fall .. Last year i made some money it took me 5 years to see a profit but none the less i still have the same birds i had last year .. if you or anyone else release a bird from 20 miles the first time it is likely that that bird will be lost but that procedure is comonly used in the racing industry to cull if a racer breeds 30 birds he is lucky if he has 5 birds in the fall and out of that he is lucky to have a winner if a winner isnt produced then they are put down its a common practice in the racing loft ..
If a person is "long on promice and short on delivery" they wont be in this business for long sick birds are just that sick and if you can spot one it is just luck you know that as well as i do .. you know i have heard this argument many times i think it is just the actions of a person that isnt happy in the fancy someone is doing better than they are therefore they are upset.
do you offer refunds out of your breeding pool you are running i doubt it .. You cant afford to sell good birds as you will cut down the probability of you winning so maybe you sell culls .Closure is a great idea and i am sure that they got closure in spite of what the birds did or did not do ....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*National Director of the White Dove Release Society - NO REFUND !*



leeswhitebirds said:


> In this case, I am sure that the family just simply wants closure.



.[/QUOTE]Lee here,
.....You know i have been to a club meeting also and in my oppinion it will stop the racing fancy because they are always arguing and get little done other than bumping heads....... The release business is a service industry we serve the public and do it well ......If a person is "long on promice and short on delivery" they wont be in this business for long .... sick birds are just that sick and if you can spot one it is just luck you know that as well as i do .....you know i have heard this argument many times i think it is just the actions of a person that isnt happy in the fancy someone is doing better than they are therefore they are upset......
do you offer refunds out of your breeding pool you are running i doubt it .. You cant afford to sell good birds as you will cut down the probability of you winning so maybe you sell culls .Closure is a great idea and i am sure that they got closure in spite of what the birds did or did not do ....[/QUOTE]

Well Mr Lee Gilley,

You got a little off topic, this was not about poor bird handling, poor training, or other alleged practices of the pigeon racing industry, or even about other people in the pigeon fancy, or if someone else offers refunds on breeding stock, or if someone sells culls, or how business is transacted with other fanciers...the topic was about a very negative experience of a family member, with a white dove release, at a funeral, from a White Dove Release business. 

Based on your responses, I think you made it pretty clear, that in your view, as the National Director of the White Dove Release Society....this family got closure in spite of what the birds did or did not do...so the family should just pay the bill, and everyone else....mind their P's and Q's. 

If I was part of the release industry, and responsible for promoting this industry, I would have stepped in, and made my organization look like a hero, and turned the situation into a positive...but that is me. It's your industry, your business, your Society, run it as you see fit.

From my own personal perspective, it would appear that the quality of this type of service can and will vary widely, and as much due diligence should be applied to hiring a contractor to release pigeons at an event, as you would give to hiring any other type of contractor. 

In some industries, there are professional organizations, which work together to insure that the consumer is treated fairly, so if you run into trouble with a local contractor, you can always contact their state or national organization. 

I am afraid, if a consumer should run into trouble with a local Dove Release service, I think it is safe to say, that they will get little empathy, or help, from the National White Dove Release Society. I think this is a shame, and a poor business practice, but that is the Society's business. I simply offered you an opportunity to say and do the right thing, on behalf of your White Dove Release Society, for a grieving family.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren, I hate to say this but you can be a sarcastic and rude person! If someone doesn't agree with everything you say, you let them have it - no holds barred. 

You need to be more considerate of other people's feelings. To me, and, this is my personal opinion, I don't think you represent our moderators well at all. And, don't send me another PM when I don't agree with what you say.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I agree with you Maggie. He can be too tough sometimes. I can see Lee's side as well as some of Warren's, but bottom line, he _could_ conduct himself a bit more professionally. I think we should expect that out of our moderator's. Maybe he is exempt?


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Well Mr Lee Gilley,

You got a little off topic, 

well Mr Warren Smith,
I noticed you didnt answer any of the questions or points i posted . Its a good thing you arent in charge as it would sink for sure . The NWDRS is just a little operation but is growing all the time there are many organizations out there that controll the White Dove industry and i am sure they will accept you into their membership when you get ready your demeanor will however keep you from belonging to our group ... well anyway enough said


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It seems that there are multiple angles to this thread. It started out as Andi's concern for the bird that stayed up in the tree. I think all of the rehabber's can definitely empathize with that one. 

Then, there is the business side of the deal where the bird didn't "perform" as you'd kinda' think folks are paying for in that kind of thing. The image of doves flying away in this case is probably meant to convey the idea of the soul taking flight from the mortal body and becoming a creature of the air--free and unlimited. It would definitely be a bit of a bummer to get the idea from the bird's behavior that the soul left the body at the gravesite and then faltered in fear and disorientation, only to be left to haunt the cemetery. Alone. Darkness falls. Discomforting image, to say the least, and it conjures up the fears that most folks have about what lies on the "other side". And, as a business deal, it then comes down to the legalities and specifics of the contract: who made what guarantees and who made what assumptions about what the event was going to be like and did it fulfill said guarantees or expectations?

Personally, I, myself, am like Andi and worry about the bird. No more, and no less. But that's just me. The argument can go about any way that one can imagine and some that any given one of us wouldn't imagine it possibly could. I can't see the value in all of us getting into a big, relationship-damaging argument here, as we're all different and have different values, even while all being, I believe, good and decent people.

Pidgey


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I guess what we all want to know is did the little bird make it home?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> I guess what we all want to know is did the little bird make it home?


THANK YOU, Feather!!! Been reading to find out the SAME thing!


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Feather, You are a Top of the Line Lady. Thank You,  Happy


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Feather said:


> I guess what we all want to know is did the little bird make it home?


Lee here, the owner said it is home


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here, the owner said it is home


Thank you for researching this concern and posting for us Lee.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here, the owner said it is home



*YEEAAAA!!!*

Thank you VERY much, Lee...made my evening!!!


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank you so much Lee, I know that Andi will be so relieved.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Andi, I'm sorry for your loss and know you will be relieved that Lee tracked down the whereabouts of the sick bird from your ceremony.

fp


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Warren, I hate to say this but you can be a sarcastic and rude person! If someone doesn't agree with everything you say, you let them have it - no holds barred.
> 
> You need to be more considerate of other people's feelings. To me, and, this is my personal opinion, I don't think you represent our moderators well at all. And, don't send me another PM when I don't agree with what you say.


Hello Maggie,

You often make very valid points, some of which I don't always agree with. I don't happen to agree with you on this matter, I voiced my perspective from the viewpoint of the consumer in this case, who took the time to post their negative experience. 

So my consideration for "feelings" in this case, were for the the family of the deceased, who paid for the service, and for those negatively affected by this "service". If you feel that my call to the business owner and industry representative to make this "right" were too harsh, then you are of course entitled to hold that view.

And, as far as I am concerned, you are free to share your view that I do not represent our moderators well, and I could suggest that such a statement was "rude" and does not take my "feelings" into consideration. But, as my grand mother use to say, if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. So, I said my thoughts, no need to PM you. Have a nice day.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Well Mr Lee Gilley,
> 
> You got a little off topic,
> 
> ...


 Well Mr. Gilly,

I am not a representative for any National Racing oganization, so I can't speak for the Racing Industry, and I can't speak to things of which I have no knowlege of. I am not in the pigeon release buisness, so there would be no point, or reason for me to associated with any such groups. 

I have worked with some consumer protection organizations, and there I am told that my demeanor serves me quite well I am told. But, this is not a consumer protection group, it is a pigeon group. So perhaps the position I took, was from a consumer protection advocate, when it should have been that of a Moderator of this forum. So, in that regard, I am sorry for my own confusion, of the role I play here.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

leeswhitebirds said:


> Lee here, the owner said it is home


Thank you very much, as THAT was my main concern. I'm so glad the youngster is home.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks Lee, for posting an update. It's good to hear the little one made it home OK.  

Cindy


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2007)

we could all look at this from the spiritual aspect and maybe ,just maybe that little bird was left behind to watch over that spirit just a little bit longer then the rest of the flock ...well I would like to think it had a purpose for doing so ,so thats what I will choose to believe  god comforts those in need with his mysterious ways all the time


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

LokotaLoft said:


> we could all look at this from the spiritual aspect and maybe ,just maybe that little bird was left behind to watch over that spirit just a little bit longer then the rest of the flock ...well I would like to think it had a purpose for doing so ,so thats what I will choose to believe  god comforts those in need with his mysterious ways all the time


That's certainly a more peaceful and soothing metaphor than the soul being
earthbound for whatever reason. Thanks for your perspective, it's so frequently the 'framing' of a concept that can make all the difference....

fp


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2007)

i totally agree  we need to always think possive in certain situations and during trying times ..with some of the stories I have read on here with birds of the white releases there sure are some that manage to send chills down my spine and put a tear in my eye  it always lets you know that a greater power is always watching over us little people down below...birds included


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

leeswhitebirds said:


> In this case, I am sure that the family just simply wants closure.



Lee here,
Well in fact many of our people in this business do have racing stock its all in how you train them It is always up to you who handles your birds you can just stay with them like i do and let them go unlike a release for a race where they are carted for many miles then let go by someone else ..You know i have been to a club meeting also and in my oppinion it will stop the racing fancy because they are always arguing and get little done other than bumping heads.circling can be taught to a bird if you arent teaching to dumbdown by only teaching the combine approach . The release business is a service industry we serve the public and do it well our birds are used for years to release unlike racing birds that are culled after they lose a race in the fall .. Last year i made some money it took me 5 years to see a profit but none the less i still have the same birds i had last year .. if you or anyone else release a bird from 20 miles the first time it is likely that that bird will be lost but that procedure is comonly used in the racing industry to cull if a racer breeds 30 birds he is lucky if he has 5 birds in the fall and out of that he is lucky to have a winner if a winner isnt produced then they are put down its a common practice in the racing loft ..
If a person is "long on promice and short on delivery" they wont be in this business for long sick birds are just that sick and if you can spot one it is just luck you know that as well as i do .. you know i have heard this argument many times i think it is just the actions of a person that isnt happy in the fancy someone is doing better than they are therefore they are upset.
do you offer refunds out of your breeding pool you are running i doubt it .. You cant afford to sell good birds as you will cut down the probability of you winning so maybe you sell culls .Closure is a great idea and i am sure that they got closure in spite of what the birds did or did not do ....[/QUOTE]
Well if a person really looks at a racing pigeon or racing homer. First you must maintain quality .To do this you never get to raise 30 birds and all 30 birds are top birds. race birds fly the distance from 100 to 350 mile as young birds. some get lost others fall pret to hawks ect. Now a release from 20 to 50 miles yes most birds will never be lost. i think the white dove release is a good thing for the people who want to have this done at any function wedding, funeral ect. Now as a sick bird goes YES most often a trained pigeon person Knows a bird is sick. If each bird is handled basketing the birds You often notice the little things. Some slip by yes. Far as circling many birds do this to get there bearings then head out towards home. the end result to this thread was the bird made it home. I think we have gone some off track on the main point of this thread. The concern mentioned about the bird that stay behind. Could look at it as the bird stayed to pay tribute then left to go home. That gives an other look at how things can be seen. Show birds race birds any performance bird,yes they have to be maintained as to quality, or a person does not compete as well and over all balance goes down hill. White release birds as well should be bred write to maintain the over all balance. NOT saying it is not done But the thought should be that the white bird should also be able to race standing the test that has been getting neglected by many. Used to be the white bird could win races. then breeders neglected them for other colors and reduced there balance. AGIN NOT all. I am saying when birds start winning races nobody cares about the color they just want to get some winning stock. Heck the birds could be pink with yellow polka dots. people would flock to getting that winning stock. race clubs and release groups could both get along and learn and share. I hold high regards for a person dedicated to improving over all quality and improvement of the pigeon. i also hold high regards for for a person that has to learn to meet the public please the customer and use the aspect of a pigeon to make the few happy at what they see. Warren is doing a great job of breeding and sharing quality racers. You Lee are doing agreat job Of trying to organize and maintain a certion value to a need area white dove release . 
Lets just say This bird went home Happy ending to a heart felt time.


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

we need to always think possive in certain situations and during trying times ..with some of the stories I have read on here with birds of the white releases there sure are some that manage to send chills down my spine and put a tear in my eye 

Lee here, 
i have many stories about white birds that have done things at funerals that are hard to explain. I done a funeral one time and the bird circled and then landed on the coffin untill it was time to lower it in the grave the ladies maiden name was Dove at any rate sometimes these things are hard to explain .. i thank you kind folks for the thank yous' i recieved i am here to learn from you folks ,i have my own forums that i log on to but i like it here even tho I dont see eye to eye with some folks or with some of the info i see here , ....God Bless


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It's nice to have you here, Lee. Thank you for posting and sharing with us.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

leeswhitebirds said:


> we need to always think possive in certain situations and during trying times ..with some of the stories I have read on here with birds of the white releases there sure are some that manage to send chills down my spine and put a tear in my eye
> 
> Lee here,
> i have many stories about white birds that have done things at funerals that are hard to explain. I done a funeral one time and the bird circled and then landed on the coffin untill it was time to lower it in the grave the ladies maiden name was Dove at any rate sometimes these things are hard to explain .. i thank you kind folks for the thank yous' i recieved i am here to learn from you folks ,i have my own forums that i log on to but i like it here even tho I dont see eye to eye with some folks or with some of the info i see here , ....God Bless


Good story. Nature gets misunderstood at times Pigeons can be amazing.


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Hi*

everyone sorry for the delay on getting back to you. I did go back to the cemetary today and stayed there for a couple of hours checking trees, the sky etc., I saw a couple of small flocks 10-15 birds flying. The first flock I saw a white bird well I thought it was all white until after chasing it around on foot, and car I finally noticed it didn't have a white head. The second flock kept circling very low to the ground so I took off towards them and then I heard duck noises so of course I had to go check it out. Well I found a cool little lake that had a ton of ducks, and a few swans. It was gated all the way around with a tall iron fence. The flock of pigeons landed inside of the water area where the grounds keeper was feeding the ducks.. So I didn't find the lost funeral pigeon but at least I know there is plenty of food and water for it around. 

By the way the pigeon (white) at the funeral that stayed behind had a very unusual beak, it looked like the pigeons they had in the early wars with kind of a hook looking beak. But I could tell it was young and scared. It was smaller than the others released. I didn't mean to get anyone in a uproar I was just concerned and wanted to know what they normally do at funeral and wedding releases.. 

The family member who hired the guy didn't seem to care, but it seemed no one did except me. I almost yelled to the guy not to leave but didn't think relatives would understand. 

I am all for a white pigeon/dove releases I think it is a beautiful site, but if it was my business I would never hand over a young bird to be released on it's own without the flock. If I did so in error, I would of stayed to make sure it went on it's way or I would of been up that tree sitting side by side with him and we would be having a little chat (in bird talk). A business works I believe if you really believe and love what it is you provide for your customers.. I feel this man didn't give a crap on the day I witnessed his release..and if that's the way he conducts business on a daily matter? well then I pity his flock....

Thanks for caring everyone....

Andi

P.S. Thank you everyone for your caring hearts.
It was the second Aunt to pass away from cancer within 6 months of each other. Both of them were the sweetest people you could meet. Aunt Fran died of bone cancer last week, Aunt Geri passed away in August from Melanoma.(sp ck) cancer that came back after 20 years of being in remission. (Wear your sunscreen please)

I just saw the post below that the little one found his way home yeah! I am so happy.......


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

We do need professional caring people to provide these services. When I turned my friend down on releasing my birds for her daughter's wedding, she was going to buy some little white doves to release. 

I told her that I thought that they would not be able to survive out in the wild, and she really didn't care. She told me that her daughter was the most important thing to her, and that she had a wedding to plan.

The only reason that she decided against the little doves is because I told her that they were not as big and as showie as pigeons were, and they would probably not fly away.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> We do need professional caring people to provide these services. When I turned my friend down on releasing my birds for her daughter's wedding, she was going to buy some little white doves to release.
> 
> I told her that I thought that they would not be able to survive out in the wild, and she really didn't care. She told me that her daughter was the most important thing to her, and that she had a wedding to plan.
> 
> The only reason that she decided against the little doves is because I told her that they were not as big and as showie as pigeons were, and they would probably not fly away.


Of course we need professional and caring persons for this kind of service. How can you have a ceremony
celebrating life, past, present or future using
white birds as a symbol when they themselves are not cared for properly.
It seems like a contradiction in terms and not everyone will be so impressed
w/the color or number of birds that they ignore the way the birds themselves
are treated or handled. 

Feather, I'm glad you disuaded your friend from punctuating such a special
event w/an act of cruelty ultimately for the birds even though she didn't want to acknowledge this.

fp


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## DJBPIGEON (Dec 3, 2006)

hi, hopefully the bird made it home,


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

DJBPIGEON said:


> hi, hopefully the bird made it home,


Yup, that's the word, hummingbird...

fp


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