# Brooklyn: tagged coop pigeon found



## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi,

Anyone out there hooked in with the coops in Brooklyn? If so, I found and caught a lost, tagged pigeon in Williamsburg today. Tags are pink and blue, the blue one reads "FATHER and SON / Above and Beyond," and the number on the pink tag is 99 MP 1088. If you have any information on who the potential owner is, or proof of ownership, please email me. Till then, I'll keep this guy fed and watered, even though he's kind of cranky (he grunts.)

max


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*more on this*

Talked to a local rehabilitator here in New York. He tells me that coopers here in NY will put a bird down if it becomes lost. Also, according to my friend, the bird is a "fancy" or show bird: white with light brown plumage, pink beak and "bull's eyes", red and white surrounding black pupils. Beautiful bird.

I'm not willing to let this one be killed because he might be a little geographically challenged, so my friend suggested that maybe I take it in. Unfortunately, I don't have a cage, and the cardboard box just seems too small. So I'm wondering if there's anyone out there who would be willing to part with a used, smaller cage (maybe 20 x 20?) that would be good enough size for a single bird. Or, if you know of anyone who might be willing to help, please let me know. I could even rent or borrow the cage for a while, and if the bird takes to me, then I'll invest in a new one; but before I do that, I want to make sure he's going to be happy and healthy here.

Any advice, let me know. 

max

PS Is it possible to purchase used cages on ebay for cheap?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi ReluctantFlier,

The pet stores such as PetCo or the like carry dog cages w/slide out bottoms
and several different doors on the cage. They make great bird cages 'cause they are so roomy. Course that's jumping the gun a bit so to speak. It's best to at least try and contact the owner and see if they would like their bird back, you can also inquire if they will put the bird down and if you may keep the bird in that case. I would get in touch w/the 911 Pigeon Alert group, here's a link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/911PigeonAlert/

They are very knowledgeable and will assist you in your effort to locate the owner.

Also, in the meantime, here's a link to our resource section that has lots of information on pigeons and their care, also to the supply houses:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

In the meantime, others will be along to offer their suggestions and information for tracking the bands you are describing.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Pigeons911*

Private message re92346mos. They get pigeons home.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

As for used cages, ebay might sell them. Give it a try.
Also try an internet search on discount cages. I found some good ones there.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Max,

Thank you for taking in this pigeon. We did have another 99 MP band reported to 911 Pigeon Alert being found in Pennsylvania. Your additional band information may help us locate the owner of both the Pennsylvania bird as well as the one you have rescued. Please do not release the bird even if it seems to be OK. If it is a fancy or show breed, its chances of survival on its own are real close to zero.

Someone on the New York City Feral Pigeon Rescue Central group had a cage available not too long ago. You might want to join and see if someone on the list can help you out with housing for the bird. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCPRC

Please do report the bird to 911 Pigeon Alert, and we will see if we can locate the owner.

Thanks again for taking in and caring for the bird.

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

*Lost pigeon*

As others have suggested, please do try to find the bird's owner. If he doesn't want it back, I'm sure he'll let you know. Since this is a fancy pigeon, not a racing homer, it's unlikely the bird was being free-flown, especially in November. It probably got out by accident. Owners of show pigeons are more likely to want them back because homing ability is not an issue with a show bird. 

If you're interesting in keeping pigeons, the owner probably has more of that breed and may be willing to sell or give you some. Pigeons are happiest in the company of other pigeons.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Everyone ~ This poor pigeon should NOT be returned to THIS owner. In my opinion, he is irresponsibe, lacking regard for his pigeons' welfare. 
Trying to make contact with this guy is unbelievable.
That's another thing! If he really cared about his pigeons being returned, his phone number would be on the band.
Instead, the name of the loft is printed, with no way to contact him.
Two years ago, we spent hours attempting to locate this owner. 
At that time, I wasn't aware of this site so I couldn't ask for help.
In desperation, we called a pigeon supply house in Brooklyn. Eureka (we thought)! Someone who knew the guy!
Informing us that the owner would be pissed if he gave out his number, he refused to give it to us. We left our number.
The end result was the phone being hung-up on my husband! 

Why are pigeons from this particular loft found in Brooklyn, Queens, PA & who knows where else?

WE FOUND A PIGEON FREEZING ON THE GROUND. HE WAS ALL
ALONE IN THE DARK, ON ONE OF THE COLDEST NIGHTS IN JANUARY. WHY WAS HE EVEN OUT AT THAT TIME OF YEAR IN NEW YORK?
UNLESS THIS GUY DOESN'T HAVE TWO BRAIN CELLS TO RUB TOGETHER, HE KNEW THE POOR BIRD WOULD BE DOOMED IF HE GOT LOST!
WHAT IF WE DIDN'T FIND HIM WHEN WE DID? IT SNOWED A FEW HOURS LATER.

Okay, I'd better stop now. If I continue, I'll say what I really think of this guy, & my post will have to be deleted. 

Max ~ PLEASE do NOT return the poor pigeon. If the owner does not kill him, he will allow him to be lost again & he will starve to death.
Thank God you found him. Thank you for taking care of him. 

You care about this pigeon, he will be happy with you.
God bless you.

Phyll


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for your input, Phyll, I couldn't imagine why someone would have special bands made for their birds without supplying a phone number, I think there is more going on here then meets the eye.


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Phyll,

Thanks so much for the information. I was kind of wondering about this whole thing. The bird's beautiful, and was easy to catch outside on the sidewalk on Thanksgiving--it was too tired to fly!

He's still a little grouchy, but I think he's getting used to me.

I also took others' advice and posted to the NYPRC, someone already responded. They were trying to find out more about the tagging, I guess they have another of these birds. Who is this person who tags them, but lets them get out and then doesn't want to be reached? Do breeders actually go out and just let some of them go when they don't want them? How irresponsible.

Anyway, this one's not going anywhere from here until I find out enough to reassure me that he's heading somewhere safe and secure.

m.

PS If not for this board, a poster who helped me a while back with an injured feral pigeon, and a local rehabilitator who helped further, I wouldn't have any clue to even grab this guy off of the sidewalk yesterday. Thanks for providing all network and resources for these guys!

PPS I gather from talking to my rehabber friend that this is a 'Fancy Pigeon.' Can anyone explain the basic differences between the different breeds to me (i.e. Fancy, Homer, Racing, etc.) I mean, the labels are explanatory, but what do they look like, what are their distinguishing characteristics? This guy has a crown, light brown plumage, "bull's eyes," and a pink beak. Good features, no?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Could you post a pic of him, it would help us identify what kind of breed he is.
The crown you mentioned makes me think it is a show bird. Those birds don't home well and are bred for showing only.
The racing/homing pigeons are tougher when let outside and they have an extraordinary homing ability, they are excellent fliers too, where as the show birds are not that good at flying.
I've heard of breeders who let their pigeons loose when they don't meet the standards for showing or racing. They think they are being nice by not killing them.


Phull, thanks for the info on this guy.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Phyll,

Would you please privately e-mail me the contact information for the pigeon supply house that knows who this person is .. the fellow with the 1999 MP bands? I'd love to have one of our 911 Pigeon Alert moderators have a chat with them and see if we can get the owner's contact information and find out what's going on with these birds.

Unfortunately the 1999 MP bird found in Pennsylvania was released by the finder. We are hoping the bird made it safely home.

I'm very happy that Max is willing to continue looking after the bird he found.

Max .. thank you for posting on 911 Pigeon Alert too.

Terry


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*that info*

Terry,

I think that the place here in Brooklyn is Broadway Pigeon and Pet Supply. I tried to call them myself today, but no answer. Here's a link to their info:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=95693

1622 Broadway Ste A
Brooklyn, NY 11207-1026 View Map
(718) 443-3500



I actually found them first, way back when I was trying to tend to this other feral pigeon. An online search on g---le of "Brooklyn Pigeons" came up with two articles that quoted from people there. I've tried calling their number on several occasions, and always have gotten voicemail/answering machine. They've never returned any messages. I bet a call from someone official sounding would solicit a more timely response.

m.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Trees Gray said:


> Thanks for your input, Phyll, I couldn't imagine why someone would have special bands made for their birds without supplying a phone number, I think there is more going on here then meets the eye.


Treesa ~ This is just a theory, but I was thinking that maybe this guy does "Dove" releases.
If they return, fine, if not, he doesn't care. Or, as Reti stated, he may let them go because they are not up to HIS standards.
Either way, it stinks!

Birdmom ~ Your answer was that of a loving owner, not all owners care about their birds.
If the pigeon we found escaped from his loft, the owner did not want him returned. 

Max ~ As Reti suggested, posting a picture would help in identifying your pigeon. 

Sorry for repeating myself, but, thank God you found 
him.
Please let us know if you receive an answer (from the other site) about the location of this loft. 

I live on Long Island, Max, but I'm from Brooklyn.
Please keep us informed. Thanks.

Terry ~ I will e-mail you.

Phyll


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*boy, he's a grouch*

I guess he just wants to sleep, and plus, we haven't really got to know each other quite yet.

He actually took a peck at my hand when I went to get him! Grouch! Is six years old in a pigeon's lifespan?

Alright, purpose of this post: I'm tired of trying to upload the dang pics. My camera's a 2.0 MP camera. The images aren't very high resolution as it is, and this site only allows images up to 100KB. Can someone please talk me through a quick way of getting these images up? I'm using a Mac, and the only way I've figured to compress the images is to resize and re-save them, but so far, they're still too big, and if I go any smaller, there will be little detail left. Help!

m.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Max,

You can e-mail the pictures to me at [email protected], and I'll be happy to get them posted for you. I know nothing about Mac's so can't be of any help there. Another alternative would be to put your pictures on Webshots (http://www.webshots.com) or on Alaska's site who is a member here and has provided the space and means for members to post pictures there (http://www.pixalbums.net/index.php?site=Pigeon).

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Phyll, thanks for the input. Obviously you know something about this particular owner, which I did not. However, I still believe people who find lost, banded pigeons should first make an effort to locate the owner. It's easy to determine that someone doesn't want a bird back--usually they don't even respond when you try to contact them. But to be fair to owners who DO want their birds back, finders should at least make an effort to find the owner. I don't like promoting the belief that "owners of lost pigeons will kill them because they got lost." People hear this and believe _all_ pigeon owners are like this when that is not the case. Even some racing homer fanciers want lost birds back. 

We lost a roller hen three years ago and she was found by some young boys. They didn't know anything about pigeons, yet they had heard that people who lose them don't want them back! Fortunately their mom disregarded this and called me (I use phone number bands in addition to permanent bands). I'm just saying you need to give the owner the benefit of the doubt. If you talk to him and he doesn't care or doesn't want the bird back, that will be apparent. 

I also think it's wrong to assume an owner wasn't taking proper care of his/her pigeons because the bird was out in bad weather. Accidents happen.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Grumpy's Pics*

What a gorgeous pigeon! Max sent these to me to post:

http://www.rims.net/000_0130.JPG
http://www.rims.net/000_0131.JPG
http://www.rims.net/000_0132.JPG

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Max,that's a beautiful pigeon, I hope all works out for the best for both of you!

fp


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*but why...*

is he such a grump? He acts like a mean dog anytime I get near him Should I just give him his space, or should I be forcing some love on him? When I do hold him, he really squirms and kicks, and when I go to pick him up, he makes this growling noise and sometimes tries to peck/bite me. I know that they're not supposed to bite, but this guy really seems like he's ready to. He actually pecked at my finger yesterday!


Also, someone told me to get some grit. I went to the Petco today (only shop I know in Manhattan for now). I picked up some "Kaytee Supreme fortified blend bird mix (it's labeled for canaries.) I made sure that it did _not_ contain sunflower seeds, but I couldn't find anything labeled grit, and most stuff was labeled for parakeets or canaries or parrots. So I got this other stuff labeled "bird greens," basically dehydrated veggies. Is that enough? The Petco staff were totally nonexistent, so I had to figure everything out for myself. Anyway, other than Vitamin D, is there any other crucial ingredient I should look for in bird feed? And what's going to make this guy happy? He's such a growler!

max


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

Max,
I thought you might be interested in the kind of bird you have. I don't know that much about them but I'm sure you can do a search on google. I borrowed these photos off of a friends web site. I'm sure he won't mind.
Your bird is an "American Flying Flights". I also know that some are called "NewYork Flying Flights". They come with or with out the crest. Those white eyes are a dead giveaway. Not too many breeds have those white eyes that I know of. 
Good luck with your new found friend.
http://www.pixalbums.net/upload/Pigeon/flight14.jpg
http://www.pixalbums.net/upload/Pigeon/flight4.jpg
Gary H.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Max,
Please give the pigeon some time to "warm up" to you.
Afterall, it's only been a couple of days. 
In those pictures, your guy looks a little upset or something.
Speak softly to him & don't pick him up every time you are near him. Trust is the key. 
Are you allowing him to have some free time? Let him check things out & get some exercise.
Is your pigeon very vocal?
Max, I hope you do not intend to name him Grumpy. He'll have a complex.  Think about his name for a while.
Oh, six years would not be old for an indoor pigeon. Seemingly, they enjoy a much longer lifespan than the ferals. Thanks be to God for that!

Phyll


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He is a very beautiful bird.
Don't worry about him being grumpy, in time he will adapt and warm up to you. It takes some time and patience. Talking to him is very important.
Petco should have the Hi-Cal grit for parrots, at least the ones around here have it. It works ok for pigeons too.

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Max, 

Your new pigeon is a real beauty As everyone has mentioned, it just takes time to build trust with any bird. Keep a routine, stick to it and don't push too much. Allow the bird to warm up to you on it's own terms. If you spend enough time with him being quiet, moving slowly and calmly, he will respond in time. Treats such as sunflower, safflower or raw/unsalted peanuts will give you an advantage in taming him. Food is often a very good trust builder

Good luck and best wishes with your new pigeon

Thanks Terry for posting the pictures for Max.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Max,

That is a really neat looking bird, and has attitude!

I have several birds that I have had for years that still growl at me and kick and squirm when I pick them up and check them. I just talk to them gently when I handle them, I just accept it, and respect them..as I don't know their history, they may have had minimal human contact. so I give them a little space.

You have only had this bird a few days, give him some time, an indoor pigeon is bound to warm up quicker, with constant loving contact. Also, start feeding him out of your hand from now on, he will really warm up quickly.

Terry, thanks for taking the time to post the pictures.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Max, grumpy or not, that is a beautiful pigeon. I have never seen one with white eyes. Like the others said, time will make a big difference.

Maggie


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

ReluctantFlier... 

If you can get some raw UNSALTED peanuts... try hand feeding a few to your found-pigeon... that will make him (her) warm up to you, but don't overfeed it peanuts, its like candy to them.

Also, if it works out that you keep the bird, you may wish to check-out some of the pigeon supply houses...

www.jedds.com
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/
http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php

If you cannot find pigeon grit in a local feed store, you can get it from any of them.

Also, if you go back to PetCo, I might suggest that you look for a "Dove" mix of seed.


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*thanks*

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the words. I'll give this guy some patience, and I won't name him "Grumpy," much as I'm tempted . He _is_ very pretty, and I'll say again that I'm quite surprised that he was just wandering the streets...

I just put him on this bike repair stand that I have, and he seems to like this as a perch. I'm hoping that this might help him get a lay of the room and such.

Now, for a cage. I have to admit, in my small Brooklyn Apt., this could turn out to be a bit of a challenge! But I'll wait a little while, and if the owner doesn't come calling, I'll go out and find something.

Thanks again for all of your help and input, and thanks for letting me know about his pedigree, too,


max


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

You could try to find a parrot cage... maybe a used one? They can be kind-of expesive though, but come from "medium"... to "big"... to "huge"... to "bigger then my college apt." size.

Depending on how handy you are with tools... you could build a great indoor pigeon cage with some 2x2's, hardware cloth... etc.... there's some pictures of some lurking around the site here. Hopefully someone will link you to them.


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Thanks for the tip.

I just had one more question: can anyone tell me about general body language? This guy, now he's on his perch, he's doing that thing where he's got his head nestled down on his chest, which seems a look of contentment. Just wanted to confirm. And also, do they sleep with their eyes closed? And is there anyplace that pigeons _like_ to be rubbed, stroked, touched? Under the beak, top of the head, back of the head, etc...?


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well... I've got homers and it looks like your found-pigeon is some sort of fancy breed... but, yes, they will nestle their head down on their chest like you say... yes, they'll sleep with their eyes closed... and yes, they'll perch on one foot too when sleeping.

When I hold my guys, I'll stroke their breast or backs litely or scratch their necks a bit... although, I'm not sure they really "like" it.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Reluctant Flier,*

I can sure relate to your experience with your new one! Even though Mr. Squeaks was a squaker when I found him, I thought he would hate me his whole life!  Of course, his injured wing might have contributed to his grouchiness because once he healed, he then turned to me as his mate! However, this turn of events took WEEKS! And things have never been the same since! I now have ONE SPOILED BIRD!

He loves to be scratched on his neck and chest and petted down his back. Actually, he seems to like being touched just anywhere. Of course, he DOES have his moments, but very few...

As others have said, patience is the key. He probably never had anyone who cared before! Some just take longer than others...I look forward to your post that he/she is HOME and loves to be handled! Also look forward to a name...of course, finding out if you have a male or female helps!

*BTW, anyone have any comments on whether a male or female generally takes longer to "tame???"*


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Shi, I used to think that the males were the sweeter of the two until my Simon came on the scene, and completely changed my mind. Of course we gave her the wrong name but it suits her and she almost responds to it.

The winter we got her I deliberately tried not to pay her much attention, knowing that we would release her come spring. It made no difference, she became my baby, always on me (and still is), kissing me, preening me . Naturally, we kept her and she is just a joy to be around. Her mate, Onslow, is one we raised from day one and he is just as sweet as Simon. It is wonderful that they chose each other. The odd thing is they don't seem to want to raise babies. I think Simon has probably laid only 2-3 eggs in the years we've had her. I don't know if the bonding with me has caused that or not.

Maggie


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

He's a gorgeous bird and I hope you'll be able to keep him. I don't know anything about the temperament of that particular breed, but some are shy and standoffish and it's just the way they are. For instance Archangels tend to be that way; their skittishness is a breed trait. We've had some for two years. They growl and wing-box whenever I go near them and are very difficult to catch.

I've also found that pigeons that weren't raised as pets (i.e. lots of handling and affection) tend to be wild and stay that way. But with a single bird you may be able to win him over with time, patience and treats.

I do recommend you get some pigeon grit as it contains minerals especially for pigeons. You can order it from one of the pigeon supply houses (along with feed, if need be). I'm guessing there aren't many feed stores in your area.


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*hmmmmm...*

Well, anyone who's been following this story, I think that I've found the potential "defect" in this fellow. Seems he can't fly. He's not injured in any visible way whatsoever, but after watching him spend the past several days in his box and not leave (it's open), and then after watching him sit on his perch until I went to feed him, and watching him almost fall when I came near, I gave him a little soft toss over my bed. He flapped his wings, but sadly, dove chest-first into my down comforter! I went out, thinking suddenly that this guy can't fly. I came back and gave him another try over the bed with the same results.

His tag is marked 99, so he's survived until now, but I'm fairly certain that at age six, he should be able to fly.

So does anyone know about birds that can't fly? Is this a strange congenital problem, or could he be hurt? He really doesn't look injured in any way, and his wings flap fine. And as you can see from the photos, he's very healthy-looking.

Can one train a guy like this to fly?

I'm bewildered and I feel really bad for him!
(It does perhaps indicate why an owner would abandon him, though, unfortunately.)


m.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Max,

It is quite possible that the bird has an injury that is keeping it from flying. You need to give him some time to rest and recuperate and see what happens. At age 6+ and being a New York Flying Flight, I'd have to assume that he did fly at some point. If not (perhaps due to a very old injury), then you won't be teaching him to fly at this stage of his life. However, if it's a recent injury and the bird recovers, then he may be able to fly just fine.

I'm sure you will love and care for him regardless of his flying ability or lack thereof, so this is one lucky pigeon to have found you.

Terry


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

OK. I'll keep an eye on him and watch what he does. Thing is, his wing flapping seems fine and normal, he just doesn't seem to be able to stay aloft (he kind of just dive-bombs forwards!)

Poor guy.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Perhaps he has an injury which causes pain if he were to try to flap hard enough to stay airborne?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

ReluctantFlier said:


> OK. I'll keep an eye on him and watch what he does. Thing is, his wing flapping seems fine and normal, he just doesn't seem to be able to stay aloft (he kind of just dive-bombs forwards!)
> 
> Poor guy.


*I wouldn't encourage the bird to fly or make the opportunity available to him(as already mentioned), and your good supportive care, as well as taking him to the vet for a complete check-up, will do.*


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Max, I would take a poop sample to a vet and get it analyzed. Disease can sometimes cause them to not fly. Also, if he is sitting with his head stuck into his chest, that is another sign of illness, not contentment.

In 2003, we picked up a bird at our "bridge" - listless, wouldn't eat, fly or do much of anything except sit with her eyes closed. We started her (Bert) on the usual, Bactrim, Nystatin, Metronidazole, some improvement. Put her in our small aviary and she could fly about a foot off the ground. Took a stool sample to the vet and found she was absolutely loaded with coccidiosis. Wound up treating her with Amprol (and everyone else in aviary) and today she is one of our "keepers". We had another rescue (Cookie) that same year that initially we thought was fine only to discover a small hole in her crop. For the couple of days that it took for us to see the hole (feathers completely covered it) she couldn't fly either.
Wound up having surgery and she, too, is one of our "keepers".

Maggie


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Yes, lots of things can keep them from flying, from unseen injuries to illness. It sounds like this bird needs a thorough vet check.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ReluctantFlier,


If it was me, I would definitely have a way for this Bird to be warm, and quite warm, not just whatever the indoor temps may be.

Get an electric Heating Pad, lay a small towell over it, and set it up highish somewhere where the Bird can find it, and see if she perches on it for the warmth.

If you get a Cage, set the heating pad up similarly, with a towell that covers it and the whole Cage bottom, so she can be on the Heating Pad or off of it as she likes, and drape the sides and top and back also with cloth so no drafts can move through. At night, drape the front also so the whole cage is covered well.

Contact that Brooklyn Pigeon Suuply house again and see about their recommendations for a friendly Pigeon Vet, and get the Bird examined, and when you do, bring a tablespoon full or so of her most recent poops.

What do the poops look like so far?


Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Max,
How's the pigeon doing today?
"Kaytee Supreme Fortified Daily Blend" is a good pigeon mix. On the front of the package you will see a purple circle which reads, "Colombes, Dove, Palomas." 
Split peas, lentils, some black oil sunflower seeds & a pinch of safflower seeds (a favorite) can be added to the mix.

Phyll


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*update II*

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the input. I guess that this thread should probably be moved by now! 

Well, I called my friend the rehabilitator today, and he told me much the same thing that some of you said: the bird may be sick. His stool was watery and small and green. I looked just now while speaking on the phone with my friend, and I noticed that the stool is in the shape of tiny, bird-seed sized pellets. My friend also told me that I probably needed to get a stool sample done. The problem is that this is New York, and some but not all of you may be aware that a vet in this city is going to be extraordinarily expensive. I'm in my first year of grad. school, and I'm also approaching my first semester finals, so it's just a heavy but urgent worry for me.

My friend recommended a place that he said only asks for suggested donations, so I'm going to see if I can go there and check him out. I'm not going to just leave him to suffer, but I do have to worry about school and my future, and this is just very difficult. At least it's really warm right now, so transporting him via the subway in a box shouldn't be too much of a worry. My roommate did say that he saw the guy wandering about on the ledge out of the box, which I think is a good sign. He seems to have zero interest in flying, though, so at least he's not trying something that will tax him more.

The person who recommended the extra warmth--what is that for? I really have very little experience with avian behavior, but I generally have a good touch with animals, so I'd like to get a bit of a better understanding.

Oh yeah... he bit me twice this morning when I went to take him out of the box to replace his food, water and bedding. But no blood drawn!

Thanks again for the help, all,

m.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi m.


The 'warmth' is for the Bird to feel comfortable while ill, and to not have to expend extra calories trying to keep itself 'warm' in what may be cool ambient indoor temperatures, because, the Bird is likely ill, possibly injured also, and needs whatever energy it has to be fighting it's illness/infection/injury.

Birds body temps run about 105, so if your appartment is say 70 degrees, then you have a differential of 35 degrees which the Bird's metabolism must generate the heat to make up for.

If you have the Bird on a 100 degree Heating Pad, the differential is 5 degrees.


Now, Brooklyn had a great many Pigeon People and Pigeon clubs.

They, or the Supplliers from whom they buy their Seed and other supplies, could likely recommend an Avian Vet they know of who is an "Avian" Vet, rather than say a 'poodle' Vet or a whatever Vet. In other words, a Vet who actual Pigeon Peiple and thric Clubs know of for when their Birds may need particular Medical attentions.

Make some calls, find some contact numbers, and call them.

Too, there are going to be many individuals who as pragmatic practioners and Pigeon raisers, racers, fanciers, breeders, will likely be able to say, "Oh, yes, when mine get those little broken snake pale green poops in thin watery syrup...I treat them with...blahh-de-bloooo, and I do so in the following way..."

And they can tell you.

Try for more than one such opinion of course.

Take some good clear j-pegs of the poops even, in case you wish to e-mil such to someone.

But find a Vet or practioner who knows Pigeons, and their illnesses, and or who will do a fecal exam AND a food exam of the Bird itself to look for punccture wounds, abcesses, or other signs of injury or trauma, and who knows what to look for, WITH Pigeons.

A Poodle Vet will not be much help, no matter what they charge.

This might be Coccidiosis which has gotten the better of the Bird, it might be a Salmonella of some kind, it might be something on top of an earlier injury or infection, or on top of some trauma that grounded the Bird untill weak, it acquired some illness from a diminished immune system and cold...or it might be any of a hundred other things.

Regular Vets, 'expensive' Vets and so on are no substitute for someone with successsful practical Pigeon experience, whether that person IS a Vet or not.


Warmth will help you Bird a good deal...and aides in supporting their internal processes, digestion, immune functions, circulatory system, elimination, comfort, etc., to be less compromised with trying to KEEP warm.


Good luck!

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

Wow, okay, Phil, great info, thanks. Just what I was looking for. Especially the info about the bird's body temps. Thanks. I'll give some of the pigeoners a call and try and get info. They're weird here in Brooklyn, though, very closed groups ofttimes. Strange how New York brings that out in people .

m.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi m., 


Ahhhhhh...yes, the 'closedness' is something so disappointing, and exhasperating, especially if we are seeking help or wisdom or an experienced hand TO help a real time present Bird.

I have run into this myself with Licenced rehabbers and so called 'groups' that are supposed to be there for injured Wildlife and so on. Tight lipped, cold, taciturn, and could care less if the Bird and me drop dead.

So...with that in mind, I hope you find some good local contacts for recommending an Avian Vet that knows Pigeons. Some vets like this can be very kind to someone like you or me and charge little or nothing, knowing we will take care of the Bird and give it our best.

It is an adventure sometimes! For you, and for the Bird...!

Heck, if you need to, when talkking with fanciers or breeders or club menbers or something, say you are JUST getting 'into' Pigeons, and your first one, this lovely little (sorry, I forgot the breed! It was mentioned earlier on by someone, ) is your first Bird, and you are worried about their Health and need some advise for these symptoms and a reference for a Pigeon Vet...

Might get their attention better than if you say you 'found' the Bird...or, you could say that you were just about TO get into locating one of THIS breed, for your first Pigeon, when "Presto!" you found one in the street! But who IS ill and so on...I dunno, it is hard to say what WILL 'work' with some people to rally their interest to provide info or tips or leads...

The http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCPRC/ might, if there is a way to e-mail them, have a list of Pigeon Friendly Vets of your broader area...

Good luck!

Such a pretty little Pigeon..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## ReluctantFlier (Aug 25, 2005)

*A final update*

Hello to everyone who helped me out on this board. On the advice of a rehabilitator friend here in the city and the NYCPRC board, I managed to find a vet. to help with my bird. I took the bird into the clinic yesterday, and the vet. took a stool smear, finding chostridia and one other c-lettered bacteria that I'm forgetting now. She was about to give me the bird in a better carrier with meds to take home when she noted that the bird wasn't eating properly (picking up pellets, but not getting the into his mouth.) So she told me to leave the bird at the clinic so that she could keep it under observation for a few days. 

Somehow, I think the pigeon realized that it was going to be safer, because during the course of the examination, which ran quite a while, he actually let me scratch the back of his head, and for the first time, he _didn't_ growl at me when I came near. Or maybe he had grown that weak  .

Anyway, I'm now planning on taking this guy in and giving him a home; I think I actually have a line on a cage for not too much. I just wanted to let everyone know that I worked things out, and I really appreciate all of the input that I got from everyone.

I have some new questions, but they're general in nature, so I'll post a newer thread in another section.

Oh, BTW, the vet. told me that six years was actually fairly old for a racer pigeon, which differed from what someone had posted here. So I'm hoping that the person who posted here is *more* right,

m.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Max,

I'm glad you were able to get some veterinary assistance for your pigeon. Hopefully s/he will be well soon and able to come home and be your spoiled pet.

Six probably is fairly old for most pigeons, but many of us have very senior birds in the 8 years of age and up range. My oldest pigeon is Traveler, a rescued racing pigeon, who will shortly be 19 years of age. I have others that are 12 and 14 years old and several that are 5-10 years of age.

Terry


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Max,
Thanks for the update, I was wondering how your pigeon was doing. 
Thank you for looking after him & getting him to the vet. Is "coccidia" the word you are looking for?
It's a relief to know you've decided to provide a home for him. 
Just wait until you see how funny pigeons are as pets.
We laugh every single day with this little one running around.
Max, I was quite surprised to hear that the vet classified him as a "Racer." Not that I have any knowledge about that, but I never thought of my pigeon as a racer. 
The information I gave you concerning his age, was according to what I have learned on this site. As with Terry, other members have also mentioned pigeons living well past six years of age. 

Max, would you please do me a favor?

When speaking to the vet, please ask if she meant that six was old in relation to racing, or in terms of their lifespan? I sure wish I knew others with this exact type of pigeon. 

Hope he will be absolutely fine & that everything works out well for the two of you. 

Phyll


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so glad you found a vet for your little guy and that you have decided to keep him. The fact that the exam lasted a long time is good; sounds as though your vet is thorough.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Max,

Thanks for the update on your buddy. That is really good that you've found someone that you can work with and who also seems very attentive. Also great that you got in a "growl-less scratch"  .

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so glad you will be providing a home for this pretty bird, and that you took the him to a vet and is being treated. I'm glad the mistery to why the bird wasn't flying will be resolved!....I don't even want to imagine what his life span would have been if you hadn't come along and helped him.

Thanks for helping this pigeon.

I love a happy ending .......


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

ReluctantFlier said:


> ...during the course of the examination, which ran quite a while, he actually let me scratch the back of his head, and for the first time, he _didn't_ growl at me when I came near...m.


Could be he recognized you as someone familiar when he was in a strange environment. He knew you weren't a threat, so was comfortable with your touch. You're making progress, even though it may not seem like it. Well done!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Max, 

Great update! Please continue to keep us posted on this and if you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to inquire.

In regards to pigeons' lifespans, the "average" age they can attain is 12-15 years in captivity. This seems to be "normal" and certainly achievable when the birds are looked after properly and healthy. They can also live much longer as Terry and others here have testified. 

Good luck with this pigeon, you really are going to gain a love this bird as time goes on. They are quite remarkable and endearing in their own ways. It's hard not to love a pigeon


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Max, I am so happy you got your beauty to the vet. I have never heard of chostridia but I imagine the other disease was coccidia because his symptoms seemed to indicate that. You're really lucky to have found a caring vet.

Maggie


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