# Help with a Pigeon I found



## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Hello we found a pigeon in the lawn, it tried to get away but struggled. It tried to fly away but couldn't not. We have looked over the bird and this is what we have found.

Posture-Tail feathers angled down, fairly innactive, eyes open, fluffed.

Droppings-green/black and white, no odor, slightly watery.

Eyes-clear,open,blackpupils/brown eyes.

Sinus-eyes and nose clean w/o any discharge, closed and effortless breathing, dry around nose and eyes, closed mouthed breathing.

Mouth-beak is black and no discharge and lesions.

Ears-Clear and clean.

Face and legs are clear of nodules.

Crop- Crop is normal feeling. no lumps no odor (other than typical bird odor).

Body mass-Don't know about bruises but definitely THIN. Breast area is exetrmely thin.

Feathers-Tail feathers are a little frayed. From maybe a parasite, attack, stress???

Wings- Look good, held up upright, however it cannot fly and they are not clipped. 

Abdomen-Very flat and skinny, fillled with pretty much nothing. 

Legs and feet-seem to be just fine.

Neuorological-Fairly well coordinated. Moves around.

Currently: Bird is in basement window with a solid wood cover over it. there are several peices of round wood and metal serving as perches, also I converted a dog bowl into a nest. I have no idea about the particulars of pigeon housing. But there is food and water. The food is rat food at the moment (She just came in today, around 10 @ night). I will be buying wild bird food with a mix of other bird feed. How does all this sound so far?
Why is this bird so skinny? Why can't it fly? Any ideas folks?  

here is some history on the extent of my bird knowledge....

I have raised a few song birds that fell out of their nests as hatchlings. I work at Petco, I am a reptile specialist. I have not delt with birds in quite a long time. 



If anyone can help me out with figuring this bird out I would be forever greatful!!  I love all animals and I cant allow for one to die on me . I will be taking her to the Vet on Monday (it is Sunday @ 12AM here) unless someone has some information on what is up with this poor lil gal. I keep calling it a girl but really I dont know :-\


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

The pij may need some heat if sick. I use a heating pad set on low and a towel on it. Usually when I am able to catch a bird it is sick/injured or a youngster.

"Mouth-beak is black" 
Does the pij have a white cere?

Have you noticed any eating or drinking? Unflavored pedialyte may be better then water.
Not sure what is in rat food but puppy chow is a decent backup.

I just know some of the basics but I'm sure someone more knowlegeable will be on soon.


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

alrighty, I have a heating pad for my reptiles sitting around I will use one of them. should it be placed under the nest or in the nest?


I have not noticed any eating or drinking, but the lil guy has only been around for a couple of hours. I will be keeping a close eye on him over the next couple of days. In fact I will probably take it to work tomorrow.

Rat food has corn, seeds, grain, and other things. Closest I have to bird food. I will grind up some dog food and add that to the bowl. I was looking at a site and it said something about grit. Place explain what the mess that is!! lol

The cere is white  what does that mean?

This Pij could be a younger one, but certainly of flying age. 


thank you for the help 
As for the pedialyte, I will grab some from work tomorrow too


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

Thank you for reading the how to examine a sick bird post! That saves so much time! The fact that it is fluffed up and has its tail angled down is worrying. As Kippy said, it needs a heat pad or a heat lamp and rehydrating. When I use a heat pad I put it under a towel. I use an ordinary 40 watt lamp bulb in a fish tank (propped open for ventilation) as an intensive care unit. (see photo).

This international rehydrating solution is better than plain water and an excelent alternative for pedyalite. Mix 1 pint of warm water with half a tablespoon of sugar or glucose and half a teaspoon of salt. Serve at room temperature in a deepish container (three finger widths deep) and dip the pigeon's beak into it so that it knows it is there. It should rehydrate before eating.

It is difficult to know what is wrong with it at the moment. It could be something as simple as worms but it could be something much more serious. Keep and eye on how much she is eating, any changes in her poops, any vomiting.


The white cere shows that she is an adult. The only pigeons that I have found weakened with hunger have been juveniles, so I would temporarily discount that alone as a cause of her weakness.

Did you open her nmouth and look down her throat when you examined her? That is where the canker would show and because it stops them feeding would lead to starvation.

When one of my rescues in the aviary showed very similar symptoms I wormed her with Panacur and she improved immediately so based on this I would recommend a dose of Panacur. It is reputed to be gentle on the host if gioven in the right dose, so if she hasn't got worms using that will do no harm.

I would also treat for cocci (with a single dose of appertex) and for canker (with a single dose of sspartrix) 2 days after worming as those are both opportunist conditions that react to stress.

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Thanks for taking this bird in 

White cere (as opposed to pink and fleshy) would indicate at least a sub-adult bird which should have flight ability if in normal health but if cere were badly discolored (brown, or greasy gray look) it could suggest some respiratory conditions.

You've obviously done a good check on the bird, so I guess you checked inside mouth, but if not is there any yellowish 'cheesy' looking substance visible?

If the bird doesn't appear to be drinking anything, it could need rehydration. 

_International Rehydration Solution:

Half a litre of water (preferably filtered) 
• Half a teaspoonful salt 
• Half a tablespoonful sugar or glucose 

Stir until salt and sugar are dissolved and administer lukewarm._


John


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

YAH!! I got up this morning and set her up in a 10 gallon with low heat pad and lamp., She is driinking!!!  I have to go to work in a hour. I will pick up the worming stuff then. Is it available as non perscription or is a trip to the vet needed?

As far as her mouth goes. I did look in her mouth and I saw no inflammation, discharge, or discoloration. It was red and grey. Im not sure to what extent the bird is supposed to have the grey coloration but from what Ive seen with other birds (the song birds) it was not too alarming :-\



She is looking a little worse this morning but I will keep all you guys posted on her condition for the next week or 2. 

The water she drank was the international rehydration solution. 

Thanks so much for the advice.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It sounds as if she is comfortable, which is one of the main things.

I am in the UK and Panacur is sold without prescription. The capsules that I use are dark blue/pale blue, and I always empty out some of the powder before using them because they were designed for large homers.

Please keep your eye on her and report any further symptoms.

Personally the rescues that I am most worried about are those that have something unidentifiable wrong with them. Pigeons are much easier to diagnose if they are in a loft, because the number of pigeons affected at the same time is an additional symptom.

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

The downward angle to the tail could indicate a female getting ready to lay an egg or one that is egg bound. The heat will definitely help .. if an egg is on the way a little bit of calcium might help her pass it.

Terry


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

I have an update on her.

When I got home from work this is what I found...She IS hydrated, however she is pooping a very fluid green poop. What have I done or what does this mean? 

As far as her outward appearance: She is MUCH more active then she was this time yesterday. However the same problems persist. Tomorrow the Vets will be open and I want to get her down there especially if the poop stays fluid. 

Thanks once again for all the advice

Would it help @ all if I put pictures of her and her setup online? that way you guys can have more of a visual with whats up with the bird


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pictures would be great .. it makes it much easier to actually see what's going on with the bird.

Thanks!

Terry


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Im not sure if I can upload 5-6 50kb pics here so I added them to my smaller web page the addy is...

http://www.geocities.com/chibi_unleashed/pigeon.html


The pictures should be fairly self-explanatory  

If there are some issues with the page please let me know and I will email them to whomever wants to have a look see



-Chaise


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the pics! The bird actually looks pretty good, but the poop is pretty nasty. Please have a look at this site: http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html

Go down the list of symptoms and look at the ones that seem to fit what's going on with your bird. Cynthia may well be right in thinking that parasites are the problem, but there are other possibilities that may be apparent to you once you read about them.

It could also be that the bird was nearly starved and now that there is food and water available and the digestive system has started working again that the feces will be normal looking fairly quickly.

Terry


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

I will have a look @ the site. I had one more question for the night... I have not seen her eat ANYTHING. should I break out the seringe (can't spell that one at the moment :-\) with kitten food mushed up or should I wait it out. By now it has bee at least 2 days since she last ate.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You can soak some dry puppy chow a bit and hand feed pieces of that. If you are going to syringe/tube feed, then get some Kaytee Exact or other brand of baby bird formula from the pet store. Since you have kitten food (I'm assuming it's the dry kind), soak a few pieces of that and see if you can get some nutrition into the bird .. you don't need to syringe it .. just place small pieces in the back of the mouth and let the bird swallow.

Terry


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

The side view mug shot looks like a lump in his throat or is it just the way the feathers are going? I don't think you can always see canker. 
I remember trying to catch a bird out in my back yard because his throat did not look normal and it turned out he had canker. Just a thought.
I you need some spartrix let me know.


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Is there anyway I can tell whether or not it is a canker? Im going to try and get her to a vet or wildlife rescue tomorrow after work and class, but until then I am going to focus on gettin' some grub in her  I may take her to work with me tomorrow. Is there any possibility of air transmission to other birds?


Good news! I got some nutrition in her!!!!! I fed her 4 little kitten food pellets. Im going to wait a hour or so and repeat. How do I check her "crop"?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If you're not seeing any signs of canker in the mouth and throat you would need a vet to run some tests to be sure. It's unlikely that the bird has anything that could be transmitted by air, but if it would be around other birds, you need to be very, very careful with your hygiene and to be aware that viruses can sometimes be transmitted simply by being on your clothing, shoes, in your hair, nose, ears, etc.

Exotic Newcastle Disease here in Southern California ran rampant by being carried from place to place by humans, vehicles, and poultry equipment.

Keep up with the soaked food if you can. Don't over do it, but do try to get at least a few more pieces down. When the crop is plump and sort of bean bag feeling, it's full. I wouldn't fill this bird up that much on the assumption that it's basically starved and needs time to get the digestive system working well again. Too much food, and the crop may stop emptying, and then we have another big problem to deal with. If the bird is still drinking on its own, that's good .. if not, you need to be syringing or tubing some fluids too.

Terry


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Im about to wrap it up for the night hopefully. I have not noticed any drinking. If not sure what you guys mean by tubing? tomorrow I will pick up some pediolyte and bird seed. Is there any bird seed that I can find @ Petco that works well with pigeons? Maybe if I find some seed the pigeon likes it will start eating on its own.

In a normal work day I do not handle birds at all. But in rare ocassions I will move a bird from cage to cage or sell one to a customer. If I used hand sanitizing soap would that be enough to keep the nasties at bay?


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

*News!*

I was getting ready to hit the sack and I decided to check the pij out one more time just for good measure and this is what I discovered:

Her feathers are fluffed up (getting ready to call it a night too maybe?) and she was only standing on one foot. Is this normal for when they are about to sleep?


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

One foots good


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

*Phew!*

Thats good  I was thinkin' "OH NO! poor guy is having even more trouble" alright then, that being said I think Im gunna call it a night. when I get up in the morning I will feed my animals and the pigeon then check the forums


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I got the same impression of Kippy, I would treat with Spartrix just to eliminate the canker doubt.

Would it be possible to take a second photo in profile and another of the interior of the mouth? I couldn't quite see whether there was anything going on in there!

Ooops! Just came across the poops picture. Terry is right, those poops are not good, there is certainly more going on than starvation.

From the colour of the eyes the pigeon looks like a young bird. 


Cynthia


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

*An Update*

Today the pigeon has had no change in her condition. I will be taking her featherly little butt to the Vet tomorrow. I didn't get a chance to take her today b/c I was worried about the birds at work contracting whatever she has. I bought some bird vitamins, kaytee exact, and wild bird seed today. Hopefully these will help stabilize her a little more!! 

I will take another side profile and inside the mouth shot tonight and I will post when they are up 


IS there anyway I could have some spartrix sent to me? or some soft bird wormer? just so I know before I pay more @ the vet office.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

If you want to email me your address i can send you some spartrix. My email address is [email protected].
I would still see what the vet says. If it does happen to be canker and it is in the throat the pij needs meds quick so I would something asap.


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Alright for tonight's feeding/water session the pij got about 4 tsps of water, 5 kibbles of kitten chow and the option of seeds in her tank. that is the best I can do for her tonight  I hope the vet has good news!!!!

Kippy I will email u my addy in a few minutes


Chaise


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

*Great News!!!!*

Hello again all!!!

I HAVE WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!

The Pij is coming around a little. Her poop is still fluidy but it is slowly regaining the proper color. Also she has been picking at some seeds!!! and she is even starting to cue and pick at me a little when i reach in to pick her up!!!!!! which from what I read being tame is a bad sign if its a wild bird! all this happened tonight as I was getting ready to give her one last dose! Her energy and alertness is 1000x better. It looks like she is starting to pull out of it a little and is regaining some strength, however she still cannot fly. I now believe that she is in fact a little young. some of her feathers are not completely wilted. Is this normal for a teen bird?


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Check your private e-mail.

Julie


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Hello ALL,

I have yet more good news. The Pij is now eating seed on her own!!!!!! Her poop continues to get more and more solid too!!!!!!  Man she has some spirit!

If you guys would look in the general forums I started a new thread there asking about Pigeons 

I sent a reply Turkey 

When I get home from class today around 6 mountain I will put up some updated pics and you guys can tell me what you think.

Have a great day!!
Chaise


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

I took her to the vet today and there is nothing but good news!!!

She had an intestinal bacteria infestation (probably e. coli) but the bacteria count was so low that there was no need for medicating 

no canker. no worms  A FULL recovery is expected although due to the level of emaciation it will be a couple of months before she is able to be released. AND by then winter will have set in so It looks like I have a Pigeon  She is the cutest thing ever!!! She is cueing and being the cutest little thing ever today!!!! the improvement is 100000 fold from 3 days ago.


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

Congratulations to you and to your bird. If you keep her,*please* immunize her for PMV. Other people here may have different sugestions as well, but all I know is that you don't want your bird to get that deadly thing.
Take care,
Violeta


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Ive have decided that its going to be up to the bird. But if the bird wants to stay then I will vaccinate it....odds are I will vaccinate it for everything before I let it loose...just to give it a little more help for the long run.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Great news! It does seem like you have a pigeon now. It is definitely easy to become attached to them.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is excellent news! Also interesting to hear how long they recommend for emaciated pigeons to recover!

Cynthia


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

*I don't know if this will help, I hope it does.*

Hi, my name is Victoria Lutes. I will try to help you as much as I am able. I found my Feral Pigeon (Sweetie) while she was either falling out of her nest or trying to land on a SUV. She broke her leg and couldn't get to her nest. I have had her now for 24 days. I will try to help you out. The first thing is she eating or drinking. Keep a close eye on her. Try putting a little honey, molasis, or sugar in her water try to get her to drink little amounts of this. If the water is sweetened a little the bird may possible like it enough to drink more of it. Also try to gain her trust. If she knows that you will not hurt her, she may respond better. Try to pet her, handle her and talk very gently to her. If you have to hold her, hold her talk to her, and keep her at ease. If possible baby her. Believe it or not they do love the attention that you give them. Try to keep her quiet if possible. I also have an email address of someone who helps run, or does run this site. His name is Terry Whately his email address is: [email protected]. Contact him and he may be able to help you more then what I can do. Contact him and he will help you the best that he can. He may be able to tell you what you may need to do as well as others in this group. He helped me. Hope everything goes well and I will pray for your pigeon, that she will fully recover from whatever is ailing her. Have a great week.


Swiphle said:


> Hello we found a pigeon in the lawn, it tried to get away but struggled. It tried to fly away but couldn't not. We have looked over the bird and this is what we have found.
> 
> Posture-Tail feathers angled down, fairly innactive, eyes open, fluffed.
> 
> ...


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

The pigeon is doing GREAT now!!!! She went upstairs with me today when I got home from class....she and I watched some TV then she sat on my shoulder while I ate dinner. She didn't seem very interested in eating veggies out of my hand but time will tell all  thanks EVERYONE for the wonderful support you all have provided. This pigeon is a blessing . Honestly she is the first bird I have really bonded with....Others that I have raised have bonded with me but honestly I cannot handle all the high pitch chirping!!!!!!! lol This bird rocks! she cues but nothing high pitch. its actually soothing


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Ah, the Zen of pigeons cooing! What a peaceful sound with so many different modulations: the loud roo-coo of a territorial male, the higher pitch of a female defending her nest, the soft murmur of a male calling his mate to nest. Amazingly expressive for an animal with no lips!


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

Today's (9/24/04) update on the pigeon! I named her!! her name is Sassy. 


Today I took a shower with her....the whole time I was singing she would tilt her head and look at me  dont know if its a good thing but at least its response lol. Then after that I took her outside while I did some yard work. She must know she isnt ready to go yet because she can fly enough to get out of the yard if she wanted, but she doesnt. That took about a hour or so then we went inside and I am typing this while she is perched about 5 feet away. Im trying to get her as much out time as I can. This is my only complete day or (no work or school) for the next week so Im trying to utilize the time as best I can  Her condition has turned completely around from this time last week. I don't have to do anything but provide her with food and water  and vitamins hehe. I have a question about grib? is that how you say it? the stuff that the pigeons need to have as well as food. Someone who knows please pm or reply


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi,

It's grit....it's kinda looks like sand. You can get it in any pet store, or alot of times even in the supermarket in the pet food section. It's not expensive. As far as I know, you just put some in a little cup and the bird eats it as needed for digestion of the seeds.
Glad to hear Sassy is doing so well....good luck.

Linda


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