# Help and Advice needed



## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*In Need of Advice and Help*

Hello, everyone,

I haven’t posted in a while, but here I am again in need of advice and help. If you look at my previous postings, you will find all the details of how I came to be a devoted pigeon friend—and, unfortunately, also how this came to attract quite a bit of scorn among my not so pigeon-friendly neighbors. 
This time I seem to be in dire trouble. My condo association has presented me with the exact text of a Chicago city ordinance, which states in its first paragraph that “[it] is unlawful for any person to import, sell, own, keep, or otherwise possess any live pigeon/pigeons within any area designated as a residence district under the Chicago Zoning Ordinance.”
I had heard about this ordinance previously, but was told then that the law concerned pigeons kept in outdoor lofts (who fly free during the day and might poop on neighboring buildings, cars, etc.), but not pet pigeons kept strictly indoors. The actual text of the ordinance, however, states definitely otherwise. 
I have seven pet pigeons, all saved ferals. In addition, I still take care of a pair of baby pigeons, who were brought to me injured. I keep these pigeons all in my condo (which, fortunately, is huge). The birds are in cages most of the day (and of course over night), except for the few hours I let them fly on a daily basis. I take great pains to keep the apartment, the cages, and the pigeons (almost) impeccably clean. The birds are healthy, happy, and much attached to each other and to me. I hardly need to mention that I am also very attached to them. They are by all accounts my pets. 
But some owners in my condo building now argue that, regardless of whether I see them as pets, the Chicago law prohibits the keeping of any pigeons in general. They say that even if kept inside, my pigeons might still be a health hazard, that they might attract rats (ironically, the keeping of rats as pets is not prohibited), and that they encourage outdoor pigeons to roost around the building. I was once more suspected of feeding the outdoor pigeons as well, although I entirely stopped doing this long ago. 
I have tried to explain the story of me and the pigeons to my neighbors, pleading for their understanding. To be sure, some of them are sympathetic, but others seem resolved to press the matter and make me give up my pets. 
My pigeons will be a major point on the agenda for our next condo meeting on September 8. I expect that, either then or slightly later, I will be presented with a collective decision, and this decision will quite likely rule against my birds.
I am in anguish about what I can do, about the fate of my pigeons, and—not the least—about losing them. Is there anyone among you who has some knowledge/experience with the pigeon ordinance in Chicago, or with similar laws elsewhere? What can I do to guarantee the safety of my birds, if I really do have to give them up? (I basically consider all of them un-releasable. Most of them came to me as babies and have never experienced the outside world, and those who have, came to me so badly battered that they no longer want to return to the urban wild. Two of them are definitely disabled. Another one is so tame that, if let out, he would fly on the next person’s head and just be surprised that people might hate him.) 

Please give me your advice.

Angelika


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Angelika,

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your pet pigeons. I'll see if I can get you in touch with someone who has been closely involved with the Chicago situation and would be an "expert" on the contents of the ordinance. May take me a little bit of time.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I guess this refers to Chicago proper because there are homing, roller and other lofts not that far away. Seems like Plan B will have to include the possibility of relocating your birds to an aviary beyond the borders of the ordinance.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Angelika

I'm so sorry about this. I understand how you feel about your birds. I wouldn't want to give mine up either, especially the rescued babies. I don't have an answer for you other, then try to relocate, you and your birds, but I did want to say that this is a terrible situation to have to deal with after how you helped these needy pigeons. I myself would have a hard time dealing with my neighbors if they had a nasty attitude about my birds and wouldn't want to live there. 

Does the law state pigeons or Rock Doves? I know I'm pushing it here, but if these are ferals, they are officially, by all bird books, known as Rock Doves and not pigeons. 

Again, I'm sorry...

Treesa


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Angelika,



> They say that even if kept inside, my pigeons might still be a health hazard, that they might attract rats (ironically, the keeping of rats as pets is not prohibited), and that they encourage outdoor pigeons to roost around the building.


Rats are attracted by food, not by pigeons. Shelter attracts pigeons to roost on a particular building, they are not concerned about whether the inhabitants are pigeons or not. The diseases that can be caught by pigeons are transmitted by close contact , so you would be the only person at risk and at no more risk than any other keeper of "socially acceptable " birds such as parrots and canaries. But dealing with this level of ignorance is extremely difficult, you can arm yourself with all the information needed to refute their ridiculous arguments but I doubt that you will able to convince them. Are you certain that your condo falls within the relevant zone?

You must make contingency plans to move your birds to a place of safety. I wish I was in the same country as you!

Cynthia


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Many thanks to all of you, who have so far replied to my cry for help. 

Let me just give you a few brief answers to the points you brought up.

The full text of the Chicago City Ordinance against pigeons defines “pigeon” as “any live bird of the family Columbidae.” This would certainly include Columba Livia, the Rock Dove.

Yes, my condo building is definitely located in a “Residential District” zone.

I will consider re-locating myself, hopefully along with my birds, outside the Chicago city borders. Unfortunately, however, this is not something that I can possibly do within just a month or so. The new academic year is right coming up at the university at which I teach—and this is an extremely teaching-intensive institution. Since I live by myself, there is hardly a chance that I could sell my current condo, find a new (and more pigeon-friendly) place somewhere outside the city borders, and manage a major move anytime before next summer. (There are more practical matters involved with such a plan, one being that I also would have to get a car [though I haven’t driven for years] to commute from any new out-of-the-city home to my workplace.) I know, people do readjust to completely altered circumstances all the time, and it will likely not be impossible for myself to do the same, eventually. But realizing such a big change would require more time than I seem to have right now.

Somewhere, I still have a faint, most likely unreasonable, hope that this law may not be meant as strictly as it sounds. Terry, I would be so grateful, if you could get me in touch with some Chicago “expert” on the Pigeon Ordinance. This law, in the way it is formulated, seems just too blind to be true. But, of course, trying to argue against it might just be as futile as trying to convince my neighbors that my pigeons do not constitute a risk to any of them. 

So, is all that remains to me, for the time being, to find safe havens for my birds somewhere outside Chicago? If this is so, please help me find true sanctuaries for them. 

I try to focus on the safety of my birds, rather than giving in to my own emotions. Not exactly easy.

Angelika


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Would it be possible for you to post a link to the zoning ordinance banning pigeons? All I can find are references to it.

You also have under 10 birds, that worked for some people in the same situation.

How did your neighbors learn that you have pigeons? Can any of them hear or see your birds when outside of your dwelling?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Angelika said:


> Hello, everyone,
> 
> ...My condo association has presented me with the exact text of a Chicago city ordinance, which states in its first paragraph that “[it] is unlawful for any person to import, sell, own, keep, or otherwise possess any live pigeon/pigeons within any area designated as a residence district under the Chicago Zoning Ordinance.” ...
> 
> Angelika


Hi Angelika,

So, I guess there is no such thing as being "grandfathered" in? An unrealistic hope. Are there areas being "gentrified" in more industrial neighborhoods and defined as such that are converting buildings into lofts?
Perhaps you could still be in the city and possibly sublet until you could sell your condo?
Other than that, if you are unable to keep them, would you think of temporary quarters if you thought it would give you the needed time to make the necessary arrangements, or do you think you need to find something permanent for them if the outcome is as you suspect?

fp


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Angelika,
Sorry to hear about your situation, I would hate to think if I was forced to get rid of my pet pigeons because of a city ordinance and unhappy neighbours and I empathise with you for being in this pickle!

I live in Australia, so I am unable to offer assistance in keeping your birds in the interim while you sort out any changes to your living arrangements to allow you to keep your pigeons safely.

However here are some links to online websites with info about this topic that may be used by yourself or others to assist you:

Here is a link to an online Zoning Map of Chicago, it is interactive and you can find out if you are in the specific zone the ordinance is taking about:
http://w28.cityofchicago.org/website/zoning/
More than likely you are in the residential zoning, but it's always good to check, this can also help you in ascertaining a new location to move to, or to temporarily keep your pet pigeons. Remember, this ordinance only states 'within any area designated as a residence district', so if you live beside a business or commercial zone this ordinance would not have precident over this area. In other words if you know a person who has a unit above a shop, technically they are in a business zone, therefore exempt from this ordinance. Just a thought 

Here is a link to the Chicago Zoning ordinance online:
http://w14.cityofchicago.org:8080/zoning/default.jsp

I have looked but I cannot find any reference to the above statement. Do you have any info on which section this statement comes from?
Perhaps others in the US can use this info to help you further 

Kind Regards
Alaska


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2005)

*Here is the ordinance*

I'm sorry to hear this also. We just acquired a lost pigeon and I'm already attached to Poopy. Since I work in the legal field, it was easy for me to find the ordinance. It is actually a Municipal Code Ordinance, so it wouldn't be found in the Zoning Ordinances. I regret to tell you that you are in fact in violation of the code. I did notice on the American Racing Pigeon Union website at http://www.pigeon.org/promoevents.htm, that the proceeds from a scheduled event on February 4th in Chicago was: ...(to) HELP OUR ONGOING LEGAL BATTLE VS. THE CITY OF CHICAGO’S ORDINANCE BANNING THE KEEPING OF PIGEONS. TO DATE OUR LEGAL FEES EXCEED $80,000
There are some names and phone numbers listed below the event information, so you might try calling to see if they are making any progress. 

This is the particular Code relating to pigeons:

7-12-387 Restrictions on pigeons. 
(a) For purposes of this section only the following definition applies: 
"Pigeon" means any live bird of the Family Columbidae. 
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, own, keep or otherwise possess any live pigeon within any area designated as a residence district under the Chicago Zoning Ordinance. Nothing in this subsection prohibits any person from transporting a live pigeon through a residential district, if the pigeon is caged during transport and not released in a residential district. 
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to construct or maintain any coop or cote that is, or may be used for the storage, maintenance or sheltering of any live pigeon within any area designated as a residence district under the Chicago Zoning Ordinance. 
(d) The provisions of subsections (b) and (c) of this section shall not apply to the keeping of pigeons as part of an exhibit at either Lincoln Park Zoo or the zoo at Indian Boundary Park. 
(e) Violation of any portion of this section shall constitute a public nuisance, which may be abated pursuant to the procedures described in section 7-28-010. In addition to any fine or penalty, an amount equal to three times the cost or expense incurred by the city in abating a nuisance may be recovered in an appropriate action instituted by the corporation counsel. 
(f) Any person who violates any provision of this section shall be fined not less than $100.00 nor more than $1,000.00 or may be incarcerated for a period not to exceed six months, or both. Each day that a violation continues shall constitute a separate and distinct offense. 
(g) [ Reserved. ] 
(Added Coun. J. 9-4-03, p. 6975, § 1; Amend Coun. J. 5-5-04, p. 22691, § 1; Amend Coun. J. 5-26-04, p. 24838, § 1; Amend Coun. J. 11-3-04, p. 35125, § 1) 

If you wish to see the code for yourself, you can find it located at:
http://library7.municode.com/gatewa...=MCC&npac_credentialspresent=true&vid=default

I wish you the best.

Teresa


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## Snow White (Jul 27, 2005)

*Maybe I can Help*

Hi Angelika, this is Sue in Schaumurg. I just had an email from Trees Gray about your plight. I can't take all of your pigeons but have made calls to people I know that might be able to help. If they are not able to take all of them or don't want your disabled or tame birds I would be happy to care for them. What I need to know is what kind of disabilities they have and in your total of 7, are you including the babies.


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*Thank you*

Dear friends,
Thank you for all your responses. It is clear then that the city ordinance fully applies to my situation, and it is not likely that this law is changed any time soon. I do live in a residential zone, and, as I said, I can manage a move to a legal location, regardless of inside or outside the city, at the very earliest in ten months. But, as it appears, I have to find safe places for my pets as soon as possible. Even if the association would collectively decide to indulge my pigeon keeping, I guess I could never be sure that one or the other individual party would not simply report me to the authorities. I know for sure, that some of my neighbors simply cannot see pigeons as harmless pets rather than pests. The prospect of having to give up my birds is raw and utter anguish. Therefore I would, of course, like to keep some hope for a reunification. But, apart from the likelihood that, in ten months, my sweeties might get attached to their new foster parents, and the foster parents to them, I can’t foresee as yet whether I will be able to find the right place for both them and me. So, I probably have to reckon with the possibility that the separation from my friends will be permanent. Their safety must at any rate come first. 

I can’t express how much I thank you, Snow White, for offering potential help so quickly. As for your questions: apart from the seven pigeons that are already well established as my pets, I have indeed recently taken in another pair of babies in need, more or less temporarily. This means, I am currently taking care of nine pigeons. Two of my established pet pigeons are disabled: one can’t fly; the other one has crippled feet, a drooping wing, and a leg that was broken and healed only almost perfectly. 

To give a better idea of all of my birds, I will put up their individual profiles in a separate posting 

Please keep helping me think for the best possible solution for my birds, even if there is barely a way to repay your kindness for the time being. 

Heaven bless you.

Angelika


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*MY Pet Pigeons*

Here are more detailed descriptions of each single one of the birds I care for.

*Christopher * (“Stoffel”): 
Male, grey checker, elegant slim & long-limbed appearance; when he coos, he can extend his crop to quite an amazing size (almost like a cropper). Generally very gentle; a little shy, usually yields to the other males. But he likes to play-peck my hand, whenever I put it into his cage. He also likes it when I then take him into my hands and cuddle him tenderly. When out of his cage, though, he won’t come up to my head or shoulders. Christopher is now a little over two years old. Like several of my other pigeons, he fell through a gap in the crawl space under the roof of our condo building, where pigeons had started breeding (this dangerous space has in the meantime been successfully closed), and landed in between my kitchen walls. He got out from this trap through a hole I had made into my kitchen wall. He was the first of many baby pigeons, coming through this unusual birth channel, whom I kept (others before him I had simply tried to release on my balcony, where unfortunately they were not safe). He was between three and four weeks old at the time of his arrival in July 2003. *Christopher’s mate (“partner”) is Bernie (Bernard).*

*Louise * (“Ayukku”):
Female; grey checker; *disabled*. General appearance similar to Christopher’s, though smaller and more delicate. Arrived as a “fallen baby” between my kitchen walls about one week later than Christopher. She can’t have been much more than two weeks old then. Her right wing must have been broken during the fall, which, at that time, I did not realize. That wing is thence drooping, and she cannot fly more than a few feet at a time. Louise has a very sweet disposition. She is also a little shy, but she does not at all dislike being handled, when one gently approaches her. *Louise’s mate (“husband”) is Vincent*, most likely her twin-brother, at whom she can get quite mad at times (at these times she usually makes the “ayukku” sound that accounts for her nickname). Louise has been laying eggs every four or five weeks since she became sexually mature. I always exchange her eggs for dummy eggs. About one month ago, she became egg-bound, probably because she had given up a set of dummy eggs too soon. In addition, I fed at this time a brand of grit that was obviously too salty. She probably got diarrhea because of that grit, which in turn must have depleted her calcium resources. Miraculously, I was able to pull her through this crisis, by administering extra high doses of calcium and by massaging her abdomen for hours, while I was constantly warming her on my lap. I can’t tell you how happy I was, when she finally expelled two definitely calcium-deficient eggs. She’s totally restored now.

*Vincent * (“Vincy”):
Male; head, neck, and wings charcoal; underwear dark to light grey; somewhat elongated, aristocratic face. Looks a little like a 19th-century gentleman in a tail-coat. Pretty. Figure just right: not too chubby, not too slim. Arrived through my kitchen walls three days after Louise. He is probably Louise’s twin-brother. He is also her husband. He is very jealous about Louise, with whom he shares a cage and produces one egg-set after the other. He is pretty shy when he is outside his cage, but he will snuggle up to my hand quite happily when I reach at him inside his house. *I would not want to separate Louise and Vincent.*

*Bernard * (“Bernie”):
Male; head, neck, and wings charcoal with a few white/grey speckles; underwear dark to light grey. Soft round outlines; a little bit like a pear—but definitely not fat. Particularly sweet-rounded head. Bernie is another fallen baby. He arrived through my kitchen walls along with his sister, maybe a month after Louise and Vincent. The two were barely two weeks old. Bernie’s sister died under unfortunate circumstances. Bernie survived. He is full of good cheer, ever playful, and always interacting with his peers. He became Christopher’s mate and partner. *Christopher and Bernie are now inseparable. * 

*Sophocles*: 
Male; the look of a typical Rock Dove; underwear various levels of grey, with white scuffs on his legs. Pretty long beak. Very good-looking. I found him as a youngster. He had a severe “one-eye cold” in addition to canker. I had not much hope for him, but, miraculously, he responded to my treatment, and survived. Sophocles is now very much attached to me, and he shows his love mainly through pecking at my hands. There is nothing that he loves more than when I finally grasp and gently cuddle him. He doesn’t fly around much; just waits for me to come to him. When I am not around, he sits nicely snuggled up in his towel underneath a toy tassel in his cage. The tassel will softly touch his head, and Sophocles will be cooing tenderly, dreaming of never-ending love. *He is single and might be doing best in a closer relationship with a human friend*.

*Evil*: 
Male; looks like a Rock Dove, similar to Sophocles, but is of darker shades of grey. He is compact, and looks a little stockier than the others because his legs are slightly shorter. Very alert and expressive face. I retrieved Evil almost exactly a year ago, along with two other tiny pigeon babies, from the crawl space under the roof of my building, right before our association had the space ammonia-fogged and sealed. Evil, who at that time may have been a week old, was the only one of these three babies, who survived. I hand-fed him for weeks, and he became extraordinarily attached to me. I guess, for him, I am his father, mother, sibling, and spouse all bundled in one. He is very, very tame; he sits on my head and shoulders, jumps on my feet, cuddles up on my lap or next to my behind, when I work at my desk. He has learned that through walking across my computer keyboard, he can improve my drafts, or even create his own. He also likes to drink green tea out of my cup. He gets easily jealous, when he thinks that I pay more than due attention to the other pigeons, or when I talk at the phone. He would fly onto my shoulder then, scolding loudly, and sometimes even peck my cheek. This little guy courts me with full-fledged rituals! Then, once in a while he gets into the mood of building a nest. I give him two plastic eggs at these times, and he would sit over a week or two for five/six hours a day on these eggs—totally serious about the business. He is self-confident, completely trustful, ever curious, demanding, and can even get slightly mischievous. He isn’t shy of guests either. The first thing he would do with any visitor (who is not afraid of pigeons and doesn’t mind Evil flying free) is trying out the person’s head as a landing-pad. I* had never imagined that a pigeon could become so tame. He would need a close human partner*.

*Paul * (“Pauly”):
Male; another Rock-Dove type; disabled. Paul must be at least three years old. That is, I first spotted him three years ago, his legs hopelessly tangled in twine. I could not get hold of him then, and he lost most of his toes, but surprisingly managed to survive quite well. Last fall, however, he took refuge on my balcony with a broken left leg and left wing. He was totally helpless, so I took him in. I splinted his leg, which obviously was broken right in the ankle, and fastened his wing. He healed in a little over two weeks. Now he walks almost normally again, but his wing still droops (although he can fly quite fine). If I ever have sensed a feeling of gratitude from a bird, it is with Paul. Pauly has settled in with me and the other birds in a quietly happy way. By all appearances, he does not want to live outside anymore. He is gentle, unobtrusive, and, apart from the flight-exercises he likes to take and the regular visits he pays me in my study, he keeps to the spot he considers his very own domain (in the corner on top of an upper kitchen cabinet). Pauly is attached to me in his own way. He does not want to be handled, but he will go and look for me when he hasn’t seen me in more than an hour. Mostly he finds me working in my study. He will sit then on top of a file cabinet for a while, looking out of the window or just looking at me with a sweet, peaceful, and soft expression in his face. He seems to like “the babies,” and the babies often follow him around on his rounds through my apartment. 

*“The babies”:*
I got them on June 27 (2005). They were barely two weeks old then, and badly injured. The head of the smaller one had been totally scalped. The bigger one had a number of pecking wounds as well. I disinfected the wounds and treated them with Aloe Vera and organic silicon. To my amazement even the big scalping wound healed quickly without the slightest infection. The two little ones are now a little over two months old. The fly and have just changed their voice. The larger of the two (“Silvio”) is quite certainly male. He is almost pure white! The smaller one (“Sylvana” ??) may be female, but I am not yet sure. This one is mostly black with a white rump, white-speckled abdomen, white “stockings,” and a mostly white head! (There are still some bare spots on her/his head, but new feathers are beginning to sprout.) These two birds would turn heads on the street! The must be the progeny of some fancy parent. Since I already had seven pet pigeons when this couple came, I thought from the beginning that I would probably have to look for human adoptive parents for them. Of course, my decision grew weaker as the days and weeks went by, but now, as my situation has unexpectedly turned so bad, I guess, I simply have to give them up.


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## Snow White (Jul 27, 2005)

*Such Sweeties*

Angelika,
Your birds sound like Sweeties. Thanks for all the info. I have several calls out there to a few different people I know and am waiting for them to get back to me. You're not forgotten. Are you really considering moving? If so, I will keep that in mind when talking to people. It might be hard. One gets so attached to their pigies. Do you think they will have to be out by 9/1 or that the board may give you reasonable time to find a solution?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Angelika,

Thank you for the wonderful description of your pigeons, sounds like a great gang!

I hope and pray that Snow White and her contacts will be able to find a home for your birds until you can relocate. I would hate to think that you would have to give up your babies permanently.

Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Your birdies have lovely personalities. It will be so easy to get attached to them. I hope you don't have to part with them forever.

Reti


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*Thanks again*

Thank you again Treesa and Sue. The association will meet on September 8 and probably make a decision on my "pigeon problem." I hope very much that the members will give me reasonable time beyond this date to resolve the situation. But, extremely anxious about my birds' fate, I wanted to give myself as much time as possible and thus I am not willing to even wait for this meeting and its (most likely negative) outcome. I will have peace of mind only when I know that my pets are safe. This is my first and foremost priority now. Since I really love my pigeons, I do hold a slight hope that I somehow might be able to reunite with them perhaps at another place. But, as I described, this hope is at the moment pretty vague. If my birds find new loving homes in the interim, I will most probably not want to uproot them once more in the future. I want them to be happy and safe.

Angelika


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Angelika said:


> The association will meet on September 8 and probably make a decision on my "pigeon problem." I hope very much that the members will give me reasonable time beyond this date to resolve the situation. I will have peace of mind only when I know that my pets are safe. This is my first and foremost priority now. Since I really love my pigeons, I do hold a slight hope that I somehow might be able to reunite with them perhaps at another place. But, as I described, this hope is at the moment pretty vague. If my birds find new loving homes in the interim, I will most probably not want to uproot them once more in the future. I want them to be happy and safe.
> 
> Angelika


Hi Angelika,

From our perspective, you don't have the "pigeon problem" , the association has the problem. I think, given the situation with your rehab birds and the time you have had them, they should give you ample time to come up with a solution, even if that means you keeping them for the time being, since the law just changed.

I understand your need for getting a secure future for your pigeons. Hopefully resources Snow White offered will help. You are not alone. 

Luckily pigeons are very adaptable, given new situations including being moved. Why, some of our members have flown pigeons around the country, even, to get them out of bad situations, & they do very well, provided some basic steps are taken.

Treesa


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

All pigeon friends,

I can't tell you how glad I am to have your moral suppport in my dismal situation. I hope the best for my birds. Thank you a thousand times for your help. I keep my hope up.

Angelika


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Angelika,
I have been talking with some friends about your situation, here is one response I received...



> I would think her best bet, especially since she rehabbed most of these birds herself, is a wildlife rehabilitation group or sanctuary. I'm sure if they were aware of the story they would be willing to help her out. I Googled "wildlife rehab" illinois, and 500 or so hits came up.
> 
> Another possibility would be a vet or commercial pet boarding facility that handles birds.
> 
> And if she absolutely can't find anyone to take the birds until she can move, contact the local media. It's a great human interest story about how the heartless bureaucrats are trying to take away the birds this woman saved from death, and if they get a lot of bad publicity they might decide it's less hassle to allow her to keep the birds until she can move.


Regards
Alaska


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*Thank you Alaska!*

I will look into these possibilities as well. Please keep helping me with your thoughts, and cross your fingers that I can save my birds.

Angelika


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Angelika,

Your story is an amazing story regarding the pigeons that came into your home through the kitchen wall due to the neglect of the association in maintenance issues. If they had been providing the services that they no doubt charge for, you would not have been pulling injured birds from the framing of your kitchen wall. Once injured and rescued, you responded as any humane individual would have, imo. The presence of these birds in your apartment surely is the result of the neglect of management in the building although I'm sure they would dispute that in terms of when they became aware of the problem. 

Not much help for sure where your own feelings for these pigeons are concerned, but it does seem they are part of the problem.

fp


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Angelika,
In my travels I came across a website that may be of assistance:
http://www.islandnet.com/~aacc/intro.htm
Now this site is the Avicultural Advancement Council of Canada.
Ok, hang on, I know Chicago is in the US and this Council is in Canada 
If you read about halfway through the page it says...


> Legislative and CITES Work
> Aviculturists in other parts of the world are frequently forced to deal with senseless and misdirected laws prohibiting the keeping of birds in captivity. The A.A.C.C. is committed to fight against such legislation whether it is federal, provincial or municipal and is in constant contact with Canadian Government authorities. Most recently, the A.A.C.C. was fortunate to offer considerable assistance to those people living in the Toronto area where an ill advised exotic animal by-law nearly prohibited the keeping of many types of companion animals including birds! A few months later Kitchener was scene of another exotic animal by-law. Again, in Manitoba in July 2000, our President, Mr. Dunstan Browne, made a presentation to the select committee regarding another misguided provincial law and just recently we scored another success in Maple Ridge, BC!
> 
> The A.A.C.C. and the A.P.F. hold the status of non voting organizations with the United Nations C.I.T.E.S.


As you can see this Council can make things happen in Canada, specifically what you need to happen there in Chicago, plus they are members of the United Nations C.I.T.E.S, it seems they have a certain amount of influence pertaining to these situations.

If you go back to the top there is a link for 'Send E-mail to: then AACC President.

I'm sure if you emailed the president of this Council they would either be able to act, or know someone in the US that deals with these matters.

Regards
Alaska


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Thank you Fp and Alaska for your ongoing support and good ideas. I'll keep checking things out. Stay with me!

Love,
Angelika


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

i know people in chicago that have a pigeon as a pet. they keep it indoors and they neighbors don't know about it. they live in an apt and once in a while they come to check something out, but they leave notices so on those days they put the pidgy in the bathroom or a cage covered up etc. nobody knows. i could see how people would know if there were multiple pidgies or if they were put on a balcony.


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Dear badbird,

unfortunately, I never had any feelings of guilt, previously, about rescuing the pigeons that got trapped in between my walls and keeping several of them as pets. Unfortunately also, I never made an attempt to hide that I keep several rescued pigeons in my home. So, I guess, it is too late for me to trying hide-and-seek with Chicago neighbors and city authorities.

I wish you much joy with your newly adopted pidge! You'll find it to be a most amazing and lovable creature. Do you have any friends near Chicago (certainly not inside) who would be interested in adopting a gorgeous pair of very young pigeons? (They are only a little more than 2 months old, I rehabbed them from very bad injuries, but now they are totally healthy--one white, the other one black with white, and just so beautiful). 

Thank you,
Angelika


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Hello*

Angel., Sorry to hear about the law against keeping pigeons. This is to sad. When I was a teenager I had some nieghbor call on my birds. And I had to find homes for them. What a heartbreaker. Your birds sound so nice. I pray God, who watches over the little sparrows will find your birds new homes and grant you peace and love. Amen.


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Dear upcd,

Thank you for your kind words. I pray with you that I will be able to keep my birds out of harms way, even if it means that I must give them up for adoption. They all deserve a loving and good home.

Angelika


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Angelika,

I have a person that may be able to help you with boarding your pigeons until you organise a move.
They live in the western suburbs of chicago and have said perhaps they can help.
If you can send me your contact email address by personal message I will forward this on to this person and you can talk some more and hopefully arrange something 

Regards
Alaska


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Hi Angelika,

I really think Feralpigeon had the best idea. Sublet your condo, then rent in an area where you can have your pigeons with you. That way you can have your bills payed, be in the process of selling your condo, and have your pigeon babies with you. Essentially having your cake and eating it too. It's a very nice way to tell the condo association to take their rules and shove 'em without saying a word.


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Dear JGregg, thank you for your message. Considering that the association is very probably giving me a “no-pigeons-in-this-house” verdict on September 8, or shortly afterwards, I unfortunately have to find a safe place for my pets rather quickly. I do hope that the separation from my birds will only be temporary, but, as I said, temporary, in this case, will mean at least 10 months. I carry the sole responsibility for my birds’ and my own survival, and in this respect, my pigeons as well as I depend on my job. My job will not allow me to make a major move before next early summer. Any relocation of me and my birds will involve the moving of an entire household (with lots of books and bookshelves). If I try to simply I rent a pigeon-safe place and sublet my condo in the interim, while I still search for a permanent home for me and my pets, I will, in the end, have to face two major moves. Therefore the subletting scheme is probably not going to help me much in my current situation. That’s why I am trying to find safe havens for my birds first. If there is any hope, I certainly do not want to loose the seven birds that have been with me over a span of one to two years. The one pigeon that I would like to keep even under the dire situation of finding a new and legal place is Evil, who is totally dependent on me. (Of course, I can’t really hope that my association will agree even to my keeping of only this single bird.) The two youngest pigeons I took in just recently as badly injured babies are exceedingly pretty. I love them very much as well, but they have not yet spent so much time with me, and therefore might still be able to find happiness in another loving home. 

I thank Alaska from the bottom of my heart, who might have found a contact with some people outside Chicago, who possibly can take in my birds until I can find another place and manage a move. If this does not work out, I will keep looking. If anyone of you knows pigeon-people around Chicago, who might be able to help me out, please let me know. You are my life-net in this situation. Thank you all for being with me.

Angelika


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Angelika,

Have you got a friend that could shelter Evil while you make a big show of rehoming your other pigeons? Maybe you could smuggle him back in afterwards. A single pigeon is so much easier to hide.

I hate for you to have to be parted from any of your pigeons, but as Treesa said they are wonderfully adaptable and as long as they are safe they will be happy.


Cynthia


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Dear Angelica,
I'm afraid I cannot help you. I live in France. But perhaps you can help me since you have experience in caring for baby pigeons. After a couple of pigeons built a nest inside my balcony 2 baby pigeons were born 20 days ago. Only one survived and until a couple of days ago the parents took good care of him. But for some reason for the last couple of days they have left him alone all day long even if his mother returned at night to spend the night with him. But last night she only came at 8:30 p.m. to feed him and left immediately after. I have the impression that they are going to abandon him. Perhaps they have built another nest somewhere else. If, as I fear, the little one will be abandoned, what should I do? Should I bring him into the house? It is cold during the night. Above all, how can I feed him? What do they eat at 20 days of age? Can you help me? Many thanks. Gladys Chardon.


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*For Gladys*

Hi Gladys,

Thank you very much for your message. I answered to your questions in a new thread under "pet pigeons," titled "For Gladys from Angelika" (my thread was originally under "pet pigeons", I believe; I just saw that it moved). I hope that my advice will be of some help to you. If you look around at this site you will probably find much more and far more experienced help. There will quite likely also come other individual replies to that posting. I wish you the best of luck with the little bird. Keep us posted.

Angelika


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

*Dear Cynthia*

Thank you again for your very sympathetic reply. What a kind heart you have--all of you. 

I will see what I can do about Evil, my lap-dove, and of course all my other birds. Trying to keep Evil hidden from not-so-pigeon-friendly neighbors, might be a little difficult. Sometimes I think I am too clumsy to keep anything hidden, and I don't want to get Evil in even further danger... 

Love,
Angelika


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Angelika,

Thank you for your kindness and time in helping Gladys. It was brought to my attention and I was in the process of moving the last post when lightning struck and I lost my connection for a while.

I have changed the title of your new thread to Gladys "Baby Feral Pigeon needs help", so everyone can respond.

Thank you


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