# Found - Tame juvenile topknot pidgeon? Help with feeding and care requested



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi everyone.

Hopefully someone out there can identify this little fellow (girl) for me and tell me at what stage of development s/he is at.

We were walking along Glenelg beach front (South Australia, Australia) when my husband pointed to something right next to me. As someone who tends to want to touch birds all the time (love my birdies) I put my hand out to see if it would let me touch it. What do you know, but it sat on my finger quite willingly and made itself at home on my wrist. 

I of course couldn't just put it back (cats, dogs, kids etc) so off it went with me on our walk around the area. It ended up perched on my wrist, but sitting just under my armpit. It was pretty windy and this seemed to shield it from the worst.

It then travelled by car to another beach close by - sat next to my husband on a shoe for half an hour, then travelled home with us by car. 45 minutes later it's sitting quite contently in my "medicine" cage. (I've had budgies on and off for years - but never had to hand rear)

Later than night, I went on a mad search for food and water ideas, approximate age and breed. 

I was quite surprised when I got up this morning and found it alive, well and alert! 

Health wise, it seems fine. No injuries and will allow any of my family to hold and pet. We managed to get a tiny amount of water into it using a syringe. but I didn't get any food into it. It seems eager to feed (will peck but not pick anything up) and half the time will try to feed by sliding it's beak along the side of the syringe.. 

Can anyone please tell me what the breed is, and approximate age. By looking around, I think it's somewhere around 3 - 4 weeks, as there are no real baby feathers and the tail feathers are short but there. There are no feathers under the wings. 

I want to go out today and get what I need as in food and equipment, but I definately don't want to buy the wrong thing.  

Please help. 

Mandy in Australia


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi mandy and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.
What a sweet little baby you've found there.
It looks like some kind of dove and a very young one, but not baby.
S/he should be start eating in a short time but for now you have to feed her. I don't know if the pet stores in your area sell baby bird formula, but my guess is they would. You can purchase that and mix it with water and feed her via syringe. Also offer her small seeds, dove seeds preferable.
offer her water in a bowl and if she is not drinking give her by syringe every few hours.
Hopefully someone can help us figure out the exact breed and then we can do a search for her diet.

Reti


----------



## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Mandy,

Welcome to Pigeon Talk. And thank you for helping out this needy bird.

I don't think that I myself can be of much help to you at the moment, but I wanted to reply to you to tell you to hang on, we have many knowledgeable members who should be along shortly to advise you.

I'm not sure if you have a baby there or not...I'm not seeing any of the typical yellow "fluff" that you usually see. But, if this is a bird who cannot yet feed itself, you can pick up baby bird formula at a pet store, such as Kaytee Exact and click on the link below to see different methods you can use for feeding:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

It seems encouraging that the bird knows how to peck, so you could continue to offer seed....but if the bird is not getting any significant amount of food that way, you would probably be better off feeding with formula.

Incidentally, unless this is a certain type of pigeon that's native to Australia that I'm not familiar with, this bird sort of looks like a dove to me....but I could be wrong!

In any case, like I said, please hang in there, I'm sure you'll be getting helpful responses soon.

Thanks again,
Linda


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Mandy and welcome to Pigeon-Talk! How nice of you and your husband to rescue that lovely little bird. It looks like a dove to me as opposed to a pigeon .. in fact .. I'm pretty sure it is a dove of some type. I'm not familiar with what kinds of native doves you have in Australia, but given the tameness of this one, I think you've got yourself a lovely new pet bird. I'll check around and see if I can ID the type of dove or perhaps another member here can do so more quickly.

It does look like a young bird and perhaps isn't self feeding yet. I'd start with some smaller seeds like finch, parakeet, or canary as opposed to true dove or pigeon mix which will have seeds that are too large for this youngster. If it's not eating even small seeds yet, then you will need a baby bird formula like Kaytee Exact, L&M, or whatever brands are sold in Australia for baby hookbills .. those will work fine for baby doves and pigeons.

Will be back in a bit after checking for what types of doves are found in your part of the world.

Terry

PS: A cage would need to be more wide than high for a dove or a pigeon .. big enough to them to extend their wings and flap without hitting the sides.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

LOL! We're all typing at the same time, and I see it's three votes for dove!  

Terry


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

*Thanks for the feeding ideas.*

Wow, that was quick!  

I'm off to the local pet store, as they say they have some rearing mix. I've got a big syringe somewhere, so I'll try that too.. Well, I'll try to anyway - I might have a fight with my daughter as to who feeds it. LOL (she's 11)

I'll check back later and tell you all how I went. 

Mandy 

PS We are building a large bird cage for our budgies - would a dove get along with budgies? I know that budgies can be quite aggressive and have seen them pick on cockatiels.


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi PCgirl, 

It almost looks like a juvenile white winged dove. They are not indigenous of your country but I'm wondering if they sell them in petstores there. Each country seem to be allowed to sell birds that aren't inhabitants of one's own country. Perhaps this was an escapee of someone's home in that area that breeds or raises them. 

I looked at the different species of doves of Australia and nothing seems to match this young one in colouration. The pictures you provided don't seem to look exactly like what a juvenile white winged dove would look like either.

In any case, here's a link to a picture of an adult white winged dove:

http://www.birdsofoklahoma.net/Wwdove.htm


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The coloring might change when they mature, so it could be what you suggested, Brad.

Reti


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I've posted one of the pictures to doves-pigeons to ask there what type of dove this is. There are people from all over the world on that list and several here in the US that will probably know at a glance.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi pcgirl,



Yes, I too would say this is for sure a 'Dove'.

Looks to be on a similar scale to the Mourning Doves we have here, if possibly a little larger than they are at that age.

A youngster, too I would say, just as you supposed...


Now, most all Wild Doves are of course quite skittish about letting anyone near them, unless they had been either someone's pet, or possibly hand raised and released, or, if rarely, if seriously ill.

Yours does seem somewhat less than vivid to me, so I would be concerned about whether is ill or injured in some way...or, if possibly she had undergone prolongued privations maybe.

Would you describe for us whatever poops there are so far? How many in what time-period, what color, consistancy?

Lastly, if this little Dove will drink, it might be worth while to have them on a simple electrolyte-water for starters, and you can make this easily by dissolving a good pijcn of regular Table Salt, and one of regular Sugar, into a medium size Glass of Water, and for the Dove to have for drinking out of, find some inch-and-a-quarter or so deep flat bottomed little Custard Baking cup or similar, for it to be both deep enough for their Beak, and stable enough not to tip if they should stand on it's lip...

If you can get some Goji-Berry or Dark Cherry juice or extract, not sweet kinds but Health Food Store kinds sold in small Bottled...add this to her Water also.


Let us know on the poops?


Seed wise, yes, 'Finch Seed', 'Canary Seed'...would be good choices for her...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

*Update*

Hi everyone,

What an effort! I went out and got some grainivore hand rearing mix and the little birdy managed to spray it everywhere. I'm all sticky, my daughter is all sticky - but I managed to get approx 5mm down. The crop is all nice and soggy feeling now. 

I tried the baggy feed, the syringe feed type, even a peice of foil shaped like a narrow thin scoop, but ended up forcing it down the little ones throat. I used a syringe with a piece of tubing on it and made sure I got it right to the back of the beak. It was so hard, as I was trying not to hurt the poor little thing.

I'll give the little thing a bit of a break and feed it a bit later before we go out. I'm hoping it will get used to what is food - I've also got 2 dishes now for it to try and feed from. 

Soggy in Australia. 

PS Oh - a bit more info. You can't see it in the photos, but the under-feathers in the tail are black and white. This might help with finding out what it is.


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

At first glance I thought of the Inca Dove as well. But I am not familiar with doves from other countries. Cynthia always rescues these little Wood Doves. Do they look simular????? I don't know! It will be interesting to find out what kind of dove he is. He's adorable...I know that.

Feather


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

Whoops - didn't see the post about water and poops until after posting.  

There are 2 pictures here showing the bottom of the bird cage that she stayed in last night. What you see are all of them during a 10 hour stay. While feeding, there were a couple of small ones - but she hadn't eaten since we found her. I'll change the paper now and see what happens next. 

She can fly - proved that when we left her sitting on top of the cage. Walked away for about 10 minutes and there she was - sitting on top of the highest cupboard across the room! Didn't try to run away when I reached up for her. Just calmly hopped on my finger when I touched her underneath.

She's inquisitive and alert. Fought me a little when feeding, but was quite content to just look at me funny when I was preparing to grab her again. LOL

Mandy


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mandy, 


Well, those poops would seem to indicate that she had not been suffering privations prior to your finding her...!

If it were me I definitely would not be trying to force feed this Dove.

Rather, showing them considerable gentleness and casual ease, I would simply let them have a nice little Bowl ( low shallow Bowl or small Jar lid ) of appropriate Seeds, and, likely, some sort of Grit also, which any Pet Shop should have on hand.

And, pending more info on what sort of Dove this is and whether they are known to eat particular Fruits and Greens and so on, just see if she will eat of her own with some privacy, calm, qiuet surrounds, and haveing her Seeds before her in the privacy of her own Cage, even having the Cage 3/4 draped if need be so she feels it is 'safe' to eat with no one watching...

Have a definite idea how much Seed her little Bowl contains, and you will know well enough if she is eating them.

If you are seeing 35 to 45 poops in 24 hours, she is definitely eating plenty.

If you use a light colored close weave cloth for her Cage bottom, it will be preferable to newspaper both for her comfort, it's absorbancy, and for keeping an eye on the poops and their color.

I take it we are seeing "white" in the poops, and not 'yellow'?


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yep, them's some very fine looking poops! I agree with Phil about seeing if this one isn't totally capable of self feeding and drinking before force feeding. I think you just might have a very healthy youngster there that just happens to be a bit human friendly  

One of the first guesses from the doves-pigeons list was brown cuckoo dove: 
http://www.birdphotos.com.au/browncuckoodoveweb/ 

Terry


----------



## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

Poops seem fine to me - it could be eating as the dark colour will be the food and the white the urea.

They seem solid thus it could be that it is eating the seed while you are not looking or just before you found it. I say this as I have hand reared quite a few and the poop always seems very watery when on the mixture.

Although Phil should be back later as he is the expert on poops (LOL)

Dove is also my thought, but the tail seems longer in relation to the body than the doves I know....


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mandy, all,


Thanks Jiggs for the compliment..! 
- I wish I were an 'expert' in poops, but this is not so. 
However, it is always good to ask, as the poops of course can tell us some things clearly, some things ambiguously/vaguely, and some things by hint or inference or clue or even intuition, which may be redundant...so...I say, they are never to be ngelected any more than is looking at the rest-of-the new-arrive or 'patient' Bird, or any Bird we are wondering as to the condition of.

No poops, of course tell us that either the Bird has not eaten in a good while, is seriously dehydrated, or, that their system is in some temporary suspension of functions...'dangerous' either way if 'so'...or needing deferences anyway.

Terry, nice forward on the 'Cookoo Dove' mention!
...sure looks like a good bet to me.

So, golly...what a little cutie this Dove is! Quite the countenance of adolesence there...

Mandy, of course let us know if she is eating and how she seems and all that?

As these are eaters of both Seed and of various small fruiting-bodys of plants or trees and so on, if your clime is one in which such fruits ( and 'green Seeds' ) are presently available, maybe ask some local Bird Groups or Bird watchers or Audobon ( sp?) for more details about the diet of these kinds of Doves, and see about going out and picking on-the-stem, some of the typical kinds of things this Dove would be eating in the wilds.

I myself find semi-dried 'Goji-Berries' to be enjoyed by every kind of Bird I have ever had pass through these rooms, and of course for Doves, or any smaller kind of Bird, these Berries should be cut into small bite-sized pieces, or even pre-soaked to make them soft and puffy-ish.

Fresh Greens such as Kale, Endive, Chards, Cilantro ( skip Spinach I think, and of course forget Lettuces as we know them, ) Beet-Tops, Carrot-Tops...all are good choices for any Doves or Pigeons or Columbiforms of any kind far as I know.

Is she has difficuly tearing off right-size, bite-size bits from the whole Leaf or bunch ( fastened if need be with some twist-tie to something stable) , just tear off tiny bits for her, and she will become a more able brouser with practice.

Some kinds of dried Sea Weeds are excellent also, and Doves ( and Pigeons, and everyone else of a grazing kind) like them, but these should be the ones which do not taste too much of Salt, or of Salt at all if one can, and, which are able ( thin enough,) to be torn off into little bites by their Beaks, or which one can shred with the fingers into little bits, or sort of 'grind' between one's palms to render into coarse flakes of a small size for them.

Tiny 'fruits', Berrys, fruiting-bodys of various Plants and low 'Weeds' or Trees, and various fresh or dried Greens, are important parts of the diets of the Wild Doves and Pigeons 'here', yet almost nothing is ever mentioned in any literature I ever found, which otherwise presumes to respect their Natural Historys. So, my own opinion is that they are likely fine for any columbiform of any sort, with emphasis of course on whatever foods their kind is known to rely on most, if sometimes with regard to the Season at hand.

Had your area suffered a Storm prior to your finding her? She seems a little buffetted maybe...

Rambley...

Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi folks, 

Unless I'm mistaken, I see white on this little one's wing in the first picture posted by Mandy. The cuckoo dove pictures from the link show no white whatsover on the wing(s). I wouldn't think that only the youngsters have white and that it goes away as it becomes an adult.


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi Everyone.

Well, she seems to be getting her "spunk" back. She'll still sit on my finger, but is now looking for an escape. The back sliding glass door seems very inviting to her.  She's eyeballing it, but hasn't tried to slam into it yet.

It was quite windy the day I found her, but not exactly a storm. But it's always windy at that particular beach and I don't remember a day that I've been there that it has been any less.

Anyway, I think she's eating from the seed tray now. I got up this morning and the seed had indents in it. It's not quite the right stuff, (budgie), but I'll go out a bit later and get her some wild bird seed. I'm sure she will pick out the yummy bits and leave the rest. The pet shop owner should have an appropriate seed mix. 

Looks like a shopping list! LOL I will definately try each thing that I can. She doesn't like orange. 

Her droppings are a little watery at the moment, but that could be the baby food I gave her yesterday. I'll keep an eye on her, but she's still alert.

Mandy


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

pcgirl said:


> Hi Everyone.
> 
> Well, she seems to be getting her "spunk" back. She'll still sit on my finger, but is now looking for an escape. The back sliding glass door seems very inviting to her.  *She's eyeballing it, but hasn't tried to slam into it yet.*
> 
> ...


Hi Mandy, 

Sounds like a pretty good update on the dove. Do be very careful that she doesn't try to fly full force into the sliding glass doors, this could really hurt her. 

Do you mean she doesn't like the colour orange?

Yes, the formula would have affected her poops and so will a change of diet from what she is used to eating. It should straighten itself out in a few days.

You could offer her a bath in a little tub, she might appreciate that as well


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mandy, 


Yes, lightly drape or in some way obscure any 'clear' or potentially 'inviteing' Windows or Glass Doors...

She is quite capable, or soon will be, of taking of with startlleing sudden-ness, and potentially flying right into such Glass, thinking it is merely an opening to the out of doors.

Of course, this can be hurtful or fatal for them...so...

Cover any such Glass with some light fabric or thin paper or even 'mist' it a few times with very soapy water so it becomes decidedly opaque...or tape Wax-Paper over it...


Too, if you have her in a Cage, you should consider to line the top of the Cage with some soft, thick foam rubber, (used pieces to be had free, usually anywhere which does re-upoldstry work ) or at least several layers of soft cloth basted to stay up and allowed to be sagging somewhat.

Doves, 'Wild' Doves anyway, once feeling 'better' can launch themselves straight 'up' with the slightest pretext, and if in a cage, they can hurt or kill themselves with hitting the inside cage top...

It may be she was somewhat stunned for a time, effected by something somehow, and will now progressively rally and resume her Wild propensitys...so...


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

She sure looks like a Brown Coo Coo Dove to me.

Thank you Terry!


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Sorry folks, 

I'm not convinced that this is a brown cuckoo dove and Mandy mentioned the black and white underside of the tail feathers. I'd lean more towards the spotted turtle dove than the brown cuckoo dove, but this youngster is mysterious. Here is a link to wild Australian doves:

http://www.ozbirds.com/OzBirds/index.php/t1=Columbiformes/t2=Columbidae#Columbidae





pcgirl said:


> PS Oh - a bit more info. You can't see it in the photos, *but the under-feathers in the tail are black and white.* This might help with finding out what it is.


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Oh...just confuse me now...why don't you Brad.

And you know how long it took me to type this.

Feather


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Mandy sorry I haven't seen your post till recently, My mum inlaw lives in Paradise and I am pretty sure this little guy is a baby ring neck, she feeds about 100-125 daily two times a day. She also feeds turtle doves, top notch pigeons. This one definately looks like a little ring neck and yes it is still a juvenille, as Steve Irwin would say what a little cutie  The birds I have seen the last 3 times I was there resemble your new found friend. If you need help let me know I may have someone over there that could help you out. Here is my e-mail address if you need help. [email protected]

Thanks Cindy


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Feather said:


> Oh...just confuse me now...why don't you Brad.
> 
> And you know how long it took me to type this.
> 
> Feather


LOL!!! Sorry Feather I know those few sentences didn't take you long at all and considering your new and improved typing skills

I'm now ready to do battle with you Wonder Woman...meet, Robot Man and his nuclear powered pigeon sidekick, "Eggbot" heheheh.


Cindy, you may be right about this dove being a ring neck dove, but I'm still wondering about the white strip I see on it's wing. Ring necks don't have this and unless I'm seeing something that isn't there. Secondly, ring necks don't have black and white on the underside of their tailfeathers


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Brad,

I love Eggbot, but the last time I saw a picture of that guy...he was much better looking.

As long as that is a pigeon on your shoulder then we are on the same side. 

You created W.W. and the minute you layed the WHITE PIGEON OF JUSTICE on her shoulders, She and her Super Hero Friends; Shi (Scorpio Power) and Mr. Squeaks (THE CAPED ONE) have battled for the rights of pigeons.


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Feather said:


> Brad,
> 
> I love Eggbot, but the last time I saw a picture of that guy...he was much better looking.
> 
> ...


Sorry Feather, 

I am without a face these days, I lost it in an epic battle, thank you for the nice compliment though 

I'm like the Batman of super heros...a little on the "dark" side....fighting for good but also a little mysterious

We WILL meet again......Ha, ha, haaaaaaa


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Mandy,
> 
> Sounds like a pretty good update on the dove. Do be very careful that she doesn't try to fly full force into the sliding glass doors, this could really hurt her.
> 
> ...


LOL - Doesn't like oranges. 

Yes, we've discovered the straight up flying. I've got her sitting on an old towel right near the back sliding door, about half way up on a cupboard. She seems so much happier there. The cage seems to make her go all funny, so I moved her. 

Last night, I was sitting there watching TV (and watching her out of the corner of my eye) and could see her eyeballing my way. She launched, bounced off the ceiling a couple of times and landed on the top of the microwave. I went over, she perched on my finger and we gave her some water from a syringe with a tube on the end. She then settled.

She doesn't like drinking from the cup (I've bought two large bird cups for food and water) and I think she's used to mum giving her a bed time drink. 

I go back to work next week, but the kids are home until school holidays finish, so someone will be able to tend to her for another 3 weeks. Hopefully, she'll be fully able to help herself to food and water by then - I know I could take her to work, but I don't think the 45 minute drive each way and all day in an office would be good for her. 

Anyway, it's end of night 3 and she's still healthy and happy, so I must be doing something right. I'll get some wild bird seed today, as she has been pecking at the budgie seed which I've scattered on the towel, but she needs something more substantial. Her poops are firm but tiny. At least she's not in shock.

I've rescued other birds in the past, but they've been either hurt so badly or go into so much shock they've never lasted very long. 

I was just reading about ring-necked doves, and yes, she does seem very simliar in colouring. And during my reading, I found they can live for 20 - 30 years! Wow! A pet for life.  

Well, off to get some food. More later.

Mandy


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mandy, 


Try offering her Water which is 'tepid' or near Body Temperature...

When young, the Water they recieve form their parents is 'warm'....and when we offer Water to them which is not warm, it can throw them off.

So, try a little Bowl of tepid Water, and see how she does...


Glad to hear it goes well...!


'Peck' with her even, with some Seeds in a little pile on a light color Towell...

Use your crook'd i ndex finger tip, and 'peck'...keep your hand and arm low, below her eye level in all of this...

This also is a component of their Nature - In the Wilds, when learning to eat on their own, they never are obliged to so so alone, there are their parents and siblings or others immediately next to them, shoulder-to-shoulder even, pecking also, so...

"Peck-peck-peck...!"


Have fun..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Mandy good luck with you new family member. She/he sure is adorable. I'm glad to hear that she is doing so well, and that it was you that found her.

Feather


----------



## pcgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

*Sad news.*

Hi everyone.

I'm sorry to say that she didn't make it. She died last night.

I'm feeling a little sad, as I was starting to get quite attached. The night she died, she got all cuddly and kept trying to get to me. I ended up holding her while feeding her. She stopped pecking at the food and I was having to feed her baby bird mix by syringe. She'd only settle on my hand.. and once she seemed that she had eaten enough and seemed comfortable, I put her to bed.

I think she may have stressed herself out trying to get out of the cage the other day. She just sort of went into shock and became listless.. She'd only perk up when I picked her up - and even though I managed to keep her alive for another 2 days, she just got worse. I tried everything on this site and every suggestion, but it just didn't help. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help. I believe that together we kept her alive for an extra 7 days, than if she had been left on that fence post. 

The good news is, my large budgie cage is nearly ready for tenents, so I'll be able to lavish attention on them.  I used to keep them years ago and I'm looking forward to it. 

Thanks again,

Mandy


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Mandy, 

I'm sorry that the young dove didn't make it It's really strange that she/he lived for the 7 days seemingly fine and then up and died all of a sudden. You really gave it a good shot and definitely provided the bird with a nicek, safe home while she was there.

Sorry again, but good luck with the new budgies that you'll be getting soon


----------

