# Falcon Attacks



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi mates...
There is a lull in the skies which I hate as nobody is flying their tipplers anymore. Reason: this falcon who is sitting on this telecommunication tower 24/7. He has made this tower his home. Always waiting for pigeons to fly and he instantly get to his work of hunting them down. He looks like a trained bird to me as he is so efficient in catching pigeons. Took 7 birds of mine, 23 birds total of all local fanciers in 3 weeks. He sometimes throw them down half eaten. He has become a severe headache.
But nobody wants to do anything about it because here falcons are protected. If anyone harms falcon then he gets 3 years in jail+fine.
First fire crackers worked but now he is used to them. And also the neighbors yell for busting loud fire crackers and rockets. We collectively went to meet animal rehab facilities putting forward our losses but they don't bother to take any action.
Is there any non violent way out to scare the falcon away forever .?.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*He definitely has found a great food source, I would suggest keep your birds inside, eventually he will have to find another food source, unless he is banded and has a home nearby.Then find out where he lives.*


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

He is not afraid of humans. Today I went near the tower to get a closer look. The tower is high but I didn't see any band on his leg. He has a yellow beak and face, brownish black body. He never go away from the tower. Even in storms(2 times this week) he didn't leave the tower. Feral pigeons used to roost on the top of the tower at night. But now they are scared. Few ferals roost now in the middle of the tower,rest roost on the temple nearby. But he's not interested in ferals. He goes for white pigeons. Some were talking that he may be trained bird used in falconry but falconry is banned here for long.
Few years back a falcon nest was destroyed by local fanciers about 3 miles from here and all pigeon fanciers were issued notices. So nobody wants to take action just waiting for this falcon to go away but he don't seem to be leaving anytime soon.
Last sunday in tippler competition he attacked 3 times. And in third strike he took a bird away.
We don't know for how long we ought to keep our bird deprived of training and flights.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

that sucks


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Hawks and falcons really hate bright lights, try a 20 million candle power light or one of these.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3YHABw&usg=AFQjCNGvnOMij2aWzsf8B3efQRTyWd6u9w


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tnx for the info Pete. I'll giv it a try and then post about the results


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. What is a notice? 
Does this falcon eat while flying or just sits down to eat?
Flutes and or paint: Has anyone tried chineese pigeon flutes? How about dying your white birds a darker color? 
Are stray street pigeons protected in your neighborhood by laws?
If not then one can get the falcon used to eating them instead of house pigeons.
Or for the long run: If one had the time, one could replace the eggs of feral/stray street pigeons with lighter colored house pigeons, then when the falcon sees the light colored birds among the dark pigeons, it may change its sights to street pigeons also. 
Pray for lightning on those rainy days to hit the tower and scare the beast away.
I like falcons but only the domestic or the trained ones.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I am not sure putting peoples domestic pigeons eggs under ferals for one purpose - food for the falcon is really a good idea. The falcon will not be able to differentiate house pigeons from feral pigeons when in the sky, Aswell as that, Falcons will pick on a lighter bird first you are right there but they can and will still catch dark coloured pigeons. Don't want to put down your suggestions but one of them is IMO cruel, Hence my posting.

How can you say you like falcons but only the domestic ones, I have more respect for the wild more natural form. Although, We do not have an issue with them where I live so maybe that's why I still think they are amazing birds. Infact, When in the dive they are indeed the most spectacular bird, A pigeons wins in level flight though.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

well you need a guard dog , but in this case a fighing rooster with the spurs. did you bother to read the poor hawk post? it not the first time i hear of roosters attacking hawk , it will be bird against birds and a even fight . so to say , and the gov cant say about you having a rooster in your back yard. if that hawk attack the rooster and the hawk get his butt kick that his fall.he be waiking home with his taill between his legs. i have now 16 rooster in my home and the attacks has stop for now , my chicken will let each other know if their any hawk flying around including my pigeons, i have to say the hawk are getting more fearless year by year , just saw a video on you tube the other day of a dumb fearless hawk attacking out of all things a eagle in her nest! boy what i saw left my jaw drop , that hawk became her lunch, she didnt needed to go out to hunt because food came knocking on her door


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi hamlet
He always sit down to eat. Haven't tried flutes but tried crackers,drum,metal boxes,whistles(mechanical). Dying could be an option but I think he will also get used to the color. No,ferals r not protected.
I've seen many videos in which falcons catch ferals and feral look-a-like homers but strangely here falcons go for white birds. In a flock, all falcons here attack pure whites usually. The Indian brown kite (hawk) targets darker ones. I'm always amazed by this


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

you could alway try sky cutter pigeon they fly to the heavens and dive down like a peregrine falcon , so maybe one of those hawk will chase these guys to the ground and the sky cutter will stop his dive like 10 feet off the ground and the hawk keep going


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Rafael...
I have high flying tippler pigeons. They usually fly very high. When falcon chase them they fall out of the sky just like a stone,exactly like the way falcon dives and my pigeons usually survive that type of attack. They say on internet that on level flight chases pigeons easily out run falcons because they have more endurance. But in my case, all the 7 pigeons I lost were caught in a level flight chase. Thankfully there is a nest of crows on a tree across the street and they chase the hawk away if he comes close. But those crows do bother my pigeons also. They killed one of my fledgling the other day.
I totally agree that falcons r getting bolder,fiercier and more agressive day by day. They just attack anything even gooses,ducks and peafowls


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

brocky bieber said:


> Is there any non violent way out to scare the falcon away forever .?.


Is catching and relocating the beast allowed in your land?
Is feeding this nuisance bird allowed?
How did the fancier destroy the nest 3 miles away from you?
Have you tried playing some territorial calls from other falcons by speakers where he sleeps or rests?
Do you have fireworks holidays coming up?
Do you have large owls in Punjab or India? Maybe a recorded sound from an owl at night, played also by speakers change this pigeon hawks mind about staying in your neighborhood.
What if it was trained by man? I would try putting a pigeon or a baby chick on my arm and see if it comes near for a look. And if it does, then give it something to eat at the same location. I think falcons also eat rodents.
This is why I ended up with pigeons that never flew very high and mostly kitted together just like their street relatives. Also, having birds not be afraid of its owners helps get them in, or near their loft during hawk attacks.
Good luck to you and your high flyers.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tnx hamlet
Yes relocating is allowed. But no one is trained to do so. I guess there is no objection on feeding. But I'm a veg,nvr even touched meat in my entire life(hindu stuff). Smell of meat makes me puke. Sorry. I don't think I could ever prepare myself to feed that bloody winged beast. I will ask some other fancier to try this...
Playing recorded voices sounds great to me though.
No firework holiday coming any soon
The fanciers destroyed the nest on a cliff by throwing the eggs and ruining the nest. And distorting the cliff's hole so that they can never nest again. They said falcons very aggresively defended their nest by attacking with claws.
Yes owls come out at night. Sometimes in day I've seen many crows chasing and killing young owls in daylight.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello Pete. Its been 2 nights I've been tryin lights. This sharp torch Light discomforts him as he switches from one iron rod to another. But that stubborn bird is not ready to leave the tower. I'll continue to shine the light. And the other red lazer light which I use really scare him


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Its been several days since anybody flew his pigeons. This early morning the falcon managed to catch a feral. Then many said now the the falcon is satisfied and he won't feel the need to hunt down tipplers. So few hours later I decided to fly a kit of 3 and my fancier friend flew 10. And there the falcon came. Chased my pigeons and thn focused on bigger flock of my friend's 10 birds and took one of them. My kit of 3 pigeons after surviving the attack went high up in sky where I couldn't locate them. Thankfully the kit returned after 4 hours safely.
No breakthrough yet to this problem. I've observed that the falcon's first choice is white ones because they continue to circle again and again around their loft arousing falcons killing instincts. I've seen Unlike tipplers, ferals run away in straight line and fly really low in the streets. Very intelligent of them to evade an attack.
This falcon very less oftenly attack homers just love hunting tipplers.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Its been several days since anybody flew his pigeons. This early morning the falcon managed to catch a feral. Then many said now the the falcon is satisfied and he won't feel the need to hunt down tipplers. So few hours later I decided to fly a kit of 3 and my fancier friend flew 10. And there the falcon came. Chased my pigeons and thn focused on bigger flock of my friend's 10 birds and took one of them. My kit of 3 pigeons after surviving the attack went high up in sky where I couldn't locate them. Thankfully the kit returned after 4 hours safely.
> No breakthrough yet to this problem. I've observed that the falcon's first choice is white ones because they continue to circle again and again around their loft arousing falcons killing instincts. I've seen Unlike tipplers, ferals run away in straight line and fly really low in the streets. Very intelligent of them to evade an attack.
> This falcon very less oftenly attack homers just love hunting tipplers.


Maybe the falcon attacks tipplers more often b/c they are probably less energy consuming compared to the feral and homers... Also b/c tipplers tip in the sky and love playing around, the falcon sees them as being distracted and an easier target. But, as you mentioned, your tipplers flew super high... from years ago... my homers did fly up really high, but most quickly flew back into their loft in about 30 minutes. The ones that got attacked would either not return due to being killed or injured .. or.. take days for return. But my exp was years ago, before I stopped letting my pigeons out. I am letting them out again now.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

They were not injured in the attack. When they were chased they split up. One was chased real hard. two went high in the sky. Then falcon attacked bigger flock. Then my tippler who was chased got lucky, escaped n joined his fellows high up in sky.
I tell u abt my another high flyer which was actually injured by claws. He lost all the tail feathers except 3. His leg also got long cut and several cuts near the vent. And after being attacked my son(tippler) kept flying for 1hr and 15 mins. I wish I could award him. I'm felt so proud of him and amazed when he came back tht how come he kept flying. My high flyers are trained for just flying,flying and flying. Wish I had pics of him when he was injured,now he has healed completely. He was the first one to be attacked by this falcon. Now I fly him less often. When he flies he drops out of the sky like a stone just on a glimpse of the falcon. He has learned his lesson hard hard hard way
It has happened many times with me. I guess they r scared of coming back in mid skies fearing an attack again


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

I herd of people letting there bird out even if there is a hawk near . they say the pigeons learn what hawks are and also learn how to avoid them .


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Indian black kite do chase pigeons. They usually go for darker ones and avoid frontal attacks. They very less often give a chase rather use element of stealth. I lost just 3-4 pigeons to them in near past.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTB1Zg18r6s2tqS588BpdYXHbh73m6NDLujGS-u8rUz__MRa3sK
But this falcon is really skilled at what he does.
Thank goodness monsoons have arrived(a month early). When it rains falcon retreat to a bunch of eucalyptus trees but come out as rain stops. I've seen falcons attacking parrots and starlings but this one is a specialised "pigeon hunter".
It happens in village here when protected felines like leopard,tiger,bear and canine like wolf attack livestock then villagers kill them. Why nobody does anything abt this falcon? I'm so sick of this falcon I can literally talk [email protected] abt him all night long.
Any idea is welcome


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

I have to say. like someone posted before, pigeons usually have an innate instinct of what is predator and how to avoid them, but if they do not get attacked IME they will act like the predator is a friend. Mine so far has not yet been attacked, so when ever they see the hawk fly near or by they just quickly walk near the trap door or sometimes just stand their and gaze at the hawk. Since mine has not yet been attacked, they act really stubborn to go into the loft or go through the trap door, b/c they prob think that if they go in now (12:00 pm) they prob will not be able to get out... so mine are really stubborn to get into their loft even if there is a hunter in the sky or in the trees above them. 

On the other hand, pigeons that have been attacked before and understand the whole concept of escaping, then they immediately go into their loft at the first sight of the hawk b/c they are really scared and do not find it fun being chased for 15 minutes straight and loosing limbs. 

So in the end I guess it has some positive effect to your pigeons (tipplers) cause they know how to avoid the hawk or atleast try escaping the hawk if they come across to it again. 

I really hate the atmosphere when the hawk attacks. I know how you feel. unfortunately "birds of prey: are illegal to be shot and killed through out the United States or World. I do not know if there are license people that can shoot them for certain purposes, but I am pretty sure there are licensed ppl. Mostly researches and scientists. I just hope one day a car accidentally rampage into one. lol. BUT....... just b/c one hawk that roams around your territory is gone does not mean that there will be no more hawks chasing your pigeons. As one hawk disappears, another will come; just b/c hawks search for their food and if one found your loft of pigeons, then surely others will too. 

My best bet is to keep your birds in top shape so that they have a more strong advantage in escaping a chase of ambush from those birds of prey. Perhaps they allow shooting of larger footed mammals due to that their livestock that those footed mammals are attacking is product for the humans of the world (money, food, etc) while pigeons or "birds" are smaller and just "birds" so they do not permit the shooting of Birds of Prey, u know? 

To be honest if it was legal to take down Birds Of Prey, their will be now Birds Of Prey existing in this year of 2013. They all would of prob be gone years ago, like in the 1800's.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

i dont understand why you cant get rid or capture that falcon because from what i been readingand seeing on video India is killing 12 to 14 thousands of Amur falcons every year , for food consumption i guess ,it on youtube if you want to check it out , im sure if you really ask your goverment they could capture him or her and move him and release him in a far location. same here people think hawk or falcon are so protected that they cant be touch the is so false , you could get a permit to capture or get rid of that problem if you check it on the internet , if that bird of pray is going after you live stock everyday there things that could be done to fix it,


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tnx Rafael/PR for the info. I'll go check that out. We talked to animal rehab facilities but they didn't act until now.
The thing is that I don't want to run into any legal trouble infact nobody wants to mainly because of police atrocities.
And in my area there are 3 different guys who r dedicated falcon lovers. They hav warned us(fanciers) that if u hurt the falcon then they will go to the authorities. They call the falcon "Shaheen" prince of birds. Darn it. So everybody is passive.
Killing falcons may be practiced in some other part of the country. We hav really a diverse locals. In my region nobody dares to harm this bird.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

they say not harm but i said capture and sent it up north or give it to the hawk lover then they could keep it as a pet


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes doig,U're right, if this falcon goes away another could come in. But I've nvr come across a falcon who sits 24/7 on the tower and attack on the sight of pigeons and so efficient in hunting them down. And eat my birds in front of my eyes. Last week it took away a juvenile of mine whom I saved taking great care and pain and this falcon took it away in his first ever flight and ate it in front of my eyes. How come I take that? Ofcouse we loose birds to falcons. Falcons come sometimes and take away birds but not everytime when we fly birds. This falcon took 8 birds of mine in less than a month.
Tnx for replying


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

They call the falcon "Shaheen" prince of birds[/QUOTE said:


> Hello. How funny, that makes me a son of a bird. That is my dad's name. Do you have pics of your flyers/kids? Thanks.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Just one thing, A falcon is not going to differentiate between ferals and domestics, If it gets a feral it will not suddenly be satisfied and change its ways, To it, a pigeon is a pigeon, Until the falcon is gone it will keep catching domestics and ferals, While the birds are out flying it will keep catching them and staying for the food source, I think relocating is really the only option here.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I agree with u Rafael/PR and Evan. But how to do it.
Rafael/PR I took a squab in my hand but the falcon didn't pay attention.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Lol hamlet, really. Hahahaha
Here r my few best flyers. Most of them are white. They r all derived from a cumulet hen. I lost that hen in 2011


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Rest of my birds are white with black eyes. They all look the same.
Sooo, u like them


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

There are traps for every animal and bird. Does any trap kinda thing exist for falcons ?
I have tried to lure it with a squab in hand but invain.
At twilight I shone red lazer light at him. He felt uncomfortable.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. Many thanks for sharing your birds' pictures. My I like your whites, specially the yellow eyed one. 
Yes there are traps for your falcon. I think you have the barbary in your neighborhood. 
How close can you get to it? It is good that it did not come close to your squab. 
I have scared rats from fruit trees with red lasers: with good results.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tnx 4 showing interest in my birds. I had a beautiful red checkered which I lost to that bloody predator,
Yes I hav barbary, its just 1/2 an kilometer away.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

nice looking birds, there are trap you could make for catching falcons in the youtube here a simple one the guys even release it in the end . best thing to do if you capture him is go to a gas station we truck diver stop and ask them how far they going , if they go like a 100+ miles from your location ask him if he could take and release the hawk when he get to where he going and give him a $20 for the favor here one video there many more one even made by pvc piples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6VBSJiPAlg


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Many Tnx Rafael/PR. I'll follow and try to trap the falcon. See if it works


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Rafael/PR said:


> you could alway try sky cutter pigeon they fly to the heavens and dive down like a peregrine falcon , so maybe one of those hawk will chase these guys to the ground and the sky cutter will stop his dive like 10 feet off the ground and the hawk keep going


Hello. I thought sky cutters just hover, and are excellent hawk bait. 
This is what i mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhxQ9mGirak


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

hamlet said:


> Hello. I thought sky cutters just hover, and are excellent hawk bait.
> This is what i mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhxQ9mGirak


YEA THEY FLY REAL NICE BUT YOU HAVE NOT SEEM THEM WHEN THEY DIVE !!!
THEY GO DOWN LIKE A FALCON DIVING THESE ARE NOT GREAT VIDEO OF THEM DIVING BUT GIVE YOU A HINT ON WHAT THEY COULD DO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_uo4kunn2g AND THIS ONE A LITTLE BETTER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCVhygwBRE OK THEY DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WATCH THEM CLOSLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MS3rK7puU


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Wow amazing stuff guys...I love pigeons when they dive. In hamlets link they fly real slow but last link by Rafael/PR shows their diving abilities

Yo.Bad news is that the falcon has brought another falcon to the region and the new falcon is bigger than him in size. The other day he caught a feral and gave it to the new falcon in flight itself. Maybe it is her overgrown son.lol
But good news is that now they are away for hours and come only at dawn and dusk.
And it rains here every 2-3 days so they go away in direction of hills several kms away from here.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

that's good news . now hopefully they will go far away and build a nest .


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I got a bad idea. The bigger one may be the female and them being gone for hours may mean that they have a nest. So when the young hatch, i am guessing is when the real hunting starts. They have to feed themselves and a couple of young too. 
I was hoping that the farmers may have a use for these falcons in their fields: to hunt rats, snakes and maybe birds.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

What...hamlet...female???
Generally in all other speices males are bigger than females...!
Nest???
Young???
Oh g


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. Has anyone tried repellants on pigeons? There is a product: bitter apple, i have used it on bandages on dogs legs to stop chewing on the cast( bandage). I am going to write a new thread on pt and see what happens.
I have read that farmers use a chemical in the carcass of sheep that makes the predators sick: temporary without physical harm. Then the predators learn to avoid such pray(sheep) meat.


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

bitter apple only work good on fererts,dog and cats i dont think it will work on a bird


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Nice thought hamlet. Very smart of u hamlet.
That should be interesting if we could apply something on feathers that make falcons loose interest in pigeons forever b'cuz we all want falcons to stay away from our pigeons. But that thing shouldn't harm pigeons like Rafael/PR said...
Research should be made on this...


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

brocky bieber said:


> What...hamlet...female???
> Generally in all other speices males are bigger than females...!
> Nest???
> Young???
> Oh g


 In red tail hawks the females are much larger than the males same as the cooper hawk . most male spiders are small in comparison to the females.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hmmmm... Tnx Jason for telling. Nature's a riddle...
Tnk god I don't have other hawks here in town except sparrow hawk which nvr caught a bird of mine.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

*sparrow hawks*

Hello. Can you find a picture of your sparrow hawk on the net? If it looks like ours: small beautiful falcon<a href='http://fineartamerica.com/featured/american-kestrel-sparrow-hawk-heidi-reyher.html' size='20'><img src='http://fineartamerica.com/displayartwork.html?id=5122556&width=250&height=375' alt='Art Prints' title='Art Prints' style='border: none;'></a> or http://www.fallsoftheohio.org/images/AmericanKestrelGFields1-1-10.jpg
Then you may wish to build nests for them in the near future so they may sound an alarm and chase the other hawks away. I have seen them do it.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi hamlet!
Tnx for the info
But here sparrow hawks do attack pigeons. They are about size of a big crow. Both falcons n shawks hunt pigeons here but there is a major different between their hunting style. Falcons hunt birds in flight but s hawks hunt when birds are sitting. They use stealth as their weapon and pounce on a flock to catch an unsuspecting bird. When my birds are in corner of my rooftop then the hawk attack in full swing but thankfully it nvr took any bird of mine. It is called Shikra locally. I would nvr want this bird around my loft because here hawks can even enter lofts via traps. falcons don't attack sitting pigeons here
http://cdn1.arkive.org/media/1F/1FD...male-Eurasian-sparrowhawk-perched-on-rock.jpg


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I was so intrigued to hear from Jason H and I browsed. Yes falcons are dimorphic. Actually I wnted to knw more n more about these birds and their behaviour so that I could find some way out by using their weakness if any. I came by a documentary narrated by David Attenborough on Teisel falcons. Oh I'm sorry he is world class veteran but documentists so glorify their subjects(falcons in this case). They edit the videos so much and flip the whole thing. They showed pigeons don't stand a chance n how easily falcons can catch pigeons which is so not true because as far as I knw pigeons do escape using their flying acrobatics. U knw guys, such forged information about pigeons really makes my blood boil.
UPDATE: now only one falcon comes at dawn and dusk but he don't try hunting at these times. He has come to knw that pigeons get tired by afternoon, flying for hours so he strikes after mid noon. Very clever of him. He caught one of my hens by her left wing but she got away with a small wound and some lost primary feathers


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm glade your getting to know the falcons routine . hopefully your birds will get to know how to avoid it ... Just remember the falcon may change his hunting techniques again


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## pinkyglory123 (Jun 28, 2013)

reading your thread I understand your frustration. I had the same problem with fox and chickens. Really the only way to deal with a predator is learn it's habits and work around them Problem is, even if you are legally or illegally but safely able to eliminate the predator-more will come. I have trapped and removed countless raccoons and their is an endless supply. Three fox were eliminated and more move in. Terribly frustrating. I went from free range with an auto coop closer, to all manner of fence including electric and still lost birds. Five at a time. Now the birds only go out when I am there which is twice a day at least an hour at a time, sometimes several hours at a time. I did have to choose breeds that were more amenable to handling but the ones I hatched learned pretty well to go in when I herd them in. It sounds like you are getting a handle on the hawks routine as much as you can-that is what I had to do. My pigeons luckily are not big flyers-they route for an hour and then come back or stay around the coop. I know I thought I would go crazy losing hens and just had to use my brain to figure an acceptable alternative. Please be careful because it hard for us to imagine here in the States but you do not want to put yourself in harms way. I think avoiding the falcon if you can figure out any pattern to it's activity may allow you to still fly your birds. They won't go away-we joke that if I have an unwanted rooster all we need to do is put it in the upper barn for a night and it will be gone by morning. And it will be. The only birds I lose now are ones that resist being cooped and I see that as "culling"-if they are not amenable to my management they are not useful to me. Good luck.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Tnx pinkglory for sharing ur experience. Sorry to hear about ur losses. So much work you have done to protect ur stock and so many different techniques u used to fend them off but... U must be really sick of those foxes and racoons. Appreciate ur efforts
In my case, whats really frustating is that there are so many feral pigeons around but falcon go for high flyers primarily.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

This is exactly what I was thinking about Jason that if I change the routine and fly my birds at day break, will falcon test its finesse on my birds that early.
Wish we could train our birds to avoid the attacks... Or teach them to land instantaneously on being attacked. Or maybe birds know better what to do !


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## pinkyglory123 (Jun 28, 2013)

I agree, they want what we have. It is easier for them to prey on our birds than look for natural prey.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Rafael/PR said:


> YEA THEY FLY REAL NICE BUT YOU HAVE NOT SEEM THEM WHEN THEY DIVE !!!
> THEY GO DOWN LIKE A FALCON DIVING THESE ARE NOT GREAT VIDEO OF THEM DIVING BUT GIVE YOU A HINT ON WHAT THEY COULD DO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_uo4kunn2g AND THIS ONE A LITTLE BETTER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCVhygwBRE OK THEY DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WATCH THEM CLOSLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MS3rK7puU


Is that first vid actually of sky cutters, Looked like divers to me, Maybe Wutas, They way they flew into the loft was not consistent with sky cutters, the second one is of sky cutters, The last one is a Macedonian tumbler. The sky cutters are not a good breed to use IMO either, They will be hawk bait as they can hover for hours and only dive to come down as they have no other choice but to dive, An actual diver would be ok as if they are whistled at or scared they generally go straight into a dive, I read somewhere that speeds of 200km/h have been recorded while the birds are in dive., I wonder too if that breed could one day be developed to be faster than the peregrine, therefore giving our lovely pigeon two titles, not only fastest animal in level flight but also fastest animal on earth whilst in dive. A Macedonian tumbler would not work either as they flutter down almost like a feather and would be east hawk bait..


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

pinkyglory123 said:


> I agree, they want what we have. It is easier for them to prey on our birds than look for natural prey.


true this, unfortunately it seems domestic pigeons have become natural prey for most the hawks and such overseas, Its almost like its genetically pre determined for them to find lofts of circling birds.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yup, bad new is that they r conditioning their coming generations to see circling pigeons as their natural prey and goodness,conservation programs are helping their population to rise. Actually high flyers are lean birds as we want them to be lean and once caught they really can't muscle themselves free even if they are not firmly grabbed.
A local fancier had one heavy rec red homer which was caught and incredibly that homer put up some hustle and got free. Unfortunately it didn't survive later bcuz he was injured near throat,crop and wing. Jeez,there was a cloud of feathers in the air...
I mean we see on tv,they talk a lot about pigeon's intelligence and say they can differentiate between colors,shapes,sizes,faces and sounds. People say they have trained their pigeons to do this and that. Why can't we train our birds to respond to a call to land when their is trouble in the air?
(I've tried but no success yet)


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

I would be careful about flying your birds the same time every day . the falcon is going to figure your routine and be there waiting for them . It's like ringing a dinner bell for them . what a lot of people do is let there birs out at different time every day . one day first thing in the morning the next late afternoon and so on


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

yes Jason, u r so right. This plan can work well..

When birds are flown in the morning they fly for more hours and get less tired than when flown after noon or mid day


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

brocky bieber said:


> People say they have trained their pigeons to do this and that. Why can't we train our birds to respond to a call to land when their is trouble in the air?
> (I've tried but no success yet)


Hello. Maybe a different breed of pigeons like these can be flown with some of the high flyers so they can all respond to the feed call: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLOxcqcc7k8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2FxK7Yp14c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtIwDGXOQ5U

here is one with the whistles attached: I read somewhere that one kind of whistle scared off a trained falcon from attacking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwAP5p7Br1Q


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Oh my god. In first link the birds dropped right into the portable cage/coop. Just amazing. What a thril it gives when in 2nd link they out ran the falcon.
And wish I can have those whistles in the last link. What do we call those whistles?
Can't thank you enough hamlet for giving me those links.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello friends...
After about 15-20 days, today I flew my three high flyers. 2 young pigeons are 3months old and 1 breeding hen. The kit of 3 hardly flew for 5-7 mins and the freaking falcon showed up from nowhere. It attacked a young pigeon first but my young flyer managed to save himself using his acrobactics though lost 7 of his tail feathers and got a big scratch near vent.
Then the falcon targeted my breeding hen(roller mix). Falcon just caught it for a fraction of a second but gave a lethal wound(pics included). (She hit the ground hard somewhere,I couldn't locate her and she came back home 5 hours later flying on her own) Then the falcon turned for another and only bird in the air,my another young and took it away after many mins of "flying air battle". Wish I could video tape it. The toll is now 12 (out of 36 birds)
Here's the hen




I've treated numerous attack cases before sucessully but honestly I've nvr stitched a wound before. I usually go to vet(small govt hospital with unfriendly natured vet) or my mentor for stitching. But its closed, tomrow is sunday it will be closed tommorow as well. My mentor is out for weekend.
This bird has massive 1 1/2 inch wound. She tries to stand upright all the time because crop is torn,when she tries normal sitting mode or bends a little,the crop contents flow out. I gave her antibiotic(enrocin) that also came out. She can neither drink nor eat. She is despearate for water. What should I do first to help her???? The crop needs stitches


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Please....! Somebody help...
I don't wanna do anything wrong to her, she already suffered a lot so please...
She's one of my six breeding hens and is sitting on eggs for 12 days right now. Young birds come and go, it hurts when we lose a young but not that much. This hen is precious to me. I wanna save her at any cost.
I took her to a doc meant for humans but he refused to help said u better take her to a vet. I said vets won't be available till monday but he said no.
(Probably because many people were waiting to get treated and he wants to make quick money... So why waste time on a bird)


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Her Condition Worsens

She has started to drop her neck...

I cleaned the wound with alcohol first(it irritates but doc says its best when u don't have anything else) then with boiled saline water. But...


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

OMG... it looks horrible. Same thing happened to mine. Its crop got torn apart. Every time it tried drinking, the water just slipped right through their neck and dropped to the floor. My birds whole crop disappeared. From you photos, it looks like your bird still has its crop just looks like a small whole in it. 

I cannot really help since mine did not make it. IT is really hard to try repair a crop unless you want them to not eat for acouple of days or weeks. 

About stitching, if the skin looks like it was torn but still stuck and not torn off the body then stitching the skin back should not be a prob. IME I would just get a needle, (make sure it is clean; alcohol.. etc) and some thin string. From there I would just stitch the flesh back onto the skin. Actually I have never done this with pigeons, but I have done it many times with my chickens. They tend to tear each others bald heads when I am not around. Most of the time they make it out alive, the only possibility of your bird not making it is if starvation takes its toll and diseases/infections affect it. My method might not be the best way b/c it is like a child facing a bull straight on. 

If you think it can make it till Monday, then IMO that might be what I would do... but if you want to try to DIY a stitch then be careful. 

Healing process IME takes about a week or two for the skin to take over. Most of the time I try to relocate the string and pull it out. Though other times the skin overlaps the string, which I do not think that is a good idea. 

I am so sorry this had to happen to your hen. I really hope you get your bird some help and hopefully it survives. Others on here must know good ways to help injured birds. I also hope they reply to you.

Goodluck to you Brocky.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

It looks small in pics probably because of feathers but hole is big.

When I look at the wound,I see some layers of skin. Some soft white stuff is also visible. Its complicated. So I don't wanna stitch it myself. It could be fatal to the bird.

Starvation and infection are my main concerns as u pointed. Attack happened 6:30am. Its now nearly 17 hours pass(midnight here)...I'm sleepless.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> It looks small in pics probably because of feathers but hole is big.
> 
> When I look at the wound,I see some layers of skin. Some soft white stuff is also visible. Its complicated. So I don't wanna stitch it myself. It could be fatal to the bird.
> 
> Starvation and infection are my main concerns as u pointed. Attack happened 6:30am. Its now nearly 17 hours pass(midnight here)...I'm sleepless.


All I can tell you now is, wait it out.

Do what you are doing already, like medications on wound, etc... 

I am not helping much other than replying back to you, but I really hope she makes it out alive and get care.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Last night she was heavily breathing. I came to check on her again at 1:00 am, there was a bubble kinda thing that was formed inside her crop. It was full of air,puss I don't know , what it was.
I checked early this morning,she is breathing heavily. Maybe her wind pipe is ruptured.


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## mysstic (Dec 16, 2011)

OMG, looks awful! so sorry for your bird. Hope she makes it.
Did you give antibiotics? 

I hate falcons, in my area is not too bad, but still they can appear from nowhere. 
I'm kind of glad that I ended up with fantails, originally wanted racing pigeons, but the ones I got from breeder died from canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When they stitch a crop, it is in two layers. The crop itself (the bag under the skin), and the outer skin. The crop itself has got to be stitched, and not just the outer skin, or the food can still leak out of the crop and into the body, under the skin. This will cause infection. Poor thing, hope she's okay.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Usually vets stitch the crop in 2 layers,the inner mucosal layer with a absorbable suture like catgut suture and the outer skin with a non -absorbable suture like silk or nylon suture,the outer suture need to removed after 7-10 days.
In your case,since it has been 18 hours since the injury....the ends of the wound would have dried up and the inner crop mucosal layer ends would have retracted inside,Which will reduce the chance of healing the wound,if sutured now without removing the dried up parts.So you basically you *need to take the bird to an experience and qualified vet *to get the suturing done,at this stage just simply suturing the 2 ends without removing the dried up parts and debris wont help . Pigeons do have excellent healing abilities,so hope for the best


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

if it were me i would stitch it my self .. this is going to sound harsh but but if she dies i would at least know i did everything i could do . and also gain experience doing it


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## jafacanyan (Jul 17, 2013)

Good luck buddy, I hate when it happens


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

The bird is no more... 
When I came back from work at about 3:30pm, to take her to hospital she was found dead.
I feel so bad. I should have stitced it myself in time,or atleast tried as Jason said.. Only thing I was worried about,was doing something wrong to her.
She was attacked on saturday at 6:30am and she died on monday may be bcuz of infection, starvation, trauma IDK. She died a painful death. Bless her
I just wanted her to get some excercise. Darn it...
Now I'm gonna clip the wings of all my breeders as my mentor does so that you don't lose the bloodlines.
Thnx u all for help and info


Oh...This is more than enough...(13 out of 36 birds) Gotta do something about this @+*/ falcon


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If you took Tersa's advice way back in this thread it could of helped prevent this. some people have to keep their birds on lock down for months.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

She never flew for months. She got hefty and out of shape. So I thought of giving her a llittle exercise. I hadn't flown my birds for days,thought falcon won't be anywhere near.

Yes I agree breeders should not be flown. I nvr knew this is gonna happen.
She was my permanent breeding hen. Unfortunately I dont have her daughter to continue but have two young sons of hers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm really sorry you lost her. She should have been started on antibiotics right away, and she needed fluids. Probably infection and dehydration.

You aren't going to let your breeders out with clipped wings are you? They would be hawk bait for sure.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Jay3
> You aren't going to let your breeders out with clipped wings are you? They would be hawk bait for sure.


U're right with ur assumption,Jay... This is one of my main concerns so I didn't clip their wings till now. Not only hawks but cats are also a huuuuuuuge problem here. Cliped winged birds are just sitting ducks for predators. I'm nvr gonna leave them unattented but hawks can still try their chance of meal...
Tnx


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

what was trying to be said to you was. when you see a falcon/hawk or whatever you have there and it is hanging around , your birds have to go on lockdown if you dont' want to lose birds,, and that some keepers have to keep their birds on lockdown for months. the choice is yours, but, that is the "secret" to keeping the birds with a resident bird of prey. you are not "feeding" him your birds when they are locked in, so perhaps the bird of prey would go elsewhere. that was the point.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Attaboy 
Yes to lock down now. I don't wanna lose more.

This time I didn't let them out for more than 15 days and falcon was nowhere to be seen for days.
Its the towers which become laden with feral pigeons at dusk(I'll post pic). Falcon knows that dawn and dusk are the best time to hunt ferals. They are permanent food source. Ofcourse I can't make all the ferals go away. So,Falcon won't be leaving anytime soon. Let's see what happens...
Now I'm gonna absorb the losses, breed my pairs, regain the numbers and hope that till then the falcon goes away forever.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I feel your loss of your stock hen. Lesson learned: clip the wings on breeders, especially the females because they sometimes are pregnant and heavy and volnurable. 
When you fly again, i suggest you fly the similar colors together or dye them all the same color. And only fly 2-5 birds the most. 
Bringing a new idea in to your loft may help. Such as adopting feral eggs or chicks and raising them with your flock. I am hoping that the feral type pigeons will not fly high and will teach your h.f. young not to sky out( go out of sight) during times of danger. A couple of times up, maybe the young will adopt these survival techniques and live to fly again.
I think that to teach our pigeons to trap during danger, we must start young by taking out the young when they can walk and letting them run into their nest fast, ONLY once a day.
Do you have a settling cage, or a training cage where they can exercise during the day? I wish to make one sometime soon for my birds and see how well the young do compared to the ones in the past. Thanks.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

no sense in beating your self it's water underneath the bridge .. what you might want to do is still stitch her up yes i know she is dead but you will still get the experience from her lose . that's how vets learn . on dead animals .


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Jason Heidlauf
> what you might want to do is still stitch her up yes i know she is dead but you will still get the experience from her lose .


Oh.....
I've lost the oppurtunity as cremated her already.....


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

These are the two towers that act like magnet to predators. Third tower is in the making. I've never seen a Gyr falcon before but a couple of days before I saw this big white spotted falcon.
The number of birds can't be guessed by looking on the pic but when the falcon attacks all fly and the flock is easily of more than a thousand(I'll try to post pic of all birds in air when attacked)



So, the thing is these wild birds have attracked many predators. They are agile and trained by mother nature but my flyers pay the price... I see no end to this problem


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello hamlet...
Tnx for reply.
Here all ferals are blue bar and look exactly the same unlike in the US(no blacks,checkered,white etc.in the flock,not even a single one)

I've tried keeping ferals,they gell well with homers. Their flying habits are similar as both fly low and in flocks. But high flyers go for the sky.
Another major difference between their flying is that homer+home bred ferals(which eventually left for freedom) that they fly for like 1-2 hours but all my high flyers are capable of flying for 6-10 hours. 6 hours are minimum. They don't land even if u show them droppers.
So in a heterogenous flock they split and join their breed mates.

Only that high flyer is successful which takes pleasure out of flying and fly fly and fly because they just love flying


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Hello hamlet...
> Tnx for reply.
> Here all ferals are blue bar and look exactly the same unlike in the US(no blacks,checkered,white etc.in the flock,not even a single one)
> 
> ...



I assume you are correct Brocky Beiber. I do not see my homers flying longer than 5 minutes. Well actually, my homers have only been flying for a month; I do not think they have gained enough stamina for longer flights. ;P

Yet, High Flyers were bred to fly up into the sky and last longer in flight compared to Ferals/Homers/racers which fly straight and might not last that long.

Though, IMO Brocky Beiber it would make sense; especially going against a Falcon, Falco peregrinus you would want a bird that has speed to out fly the Falcon. Flying up into the sky and lasting 6-8 hours is supreme, but then again falcons are known to dive from "great" heights. I am not saying your birds are not fit for out-flying falcons b/c your birds apparently are in better shape than mine and your hen actually escaped from the talons of that BEAST!, but a bird that flies with speed and quickly finds cover to hide away would last longer "life wise" compared to a bird that can last longer in the open sky where the danger can just ascend and attack again as well as attract more. Though, those high flyers could surely tire out the falcon, it just that they are in danger at a longer length of time which might decrease their percentage of survival.

If you can signal your birds with a feed call to come down quickly when danger has been spotted, even if they danger has attacked; then IMO that would be the best bet to increase less loses. 

Just a small opinion from me, hope you the best b/c my birds seem to have attracted a family of three birds of prey visiting every mourning (11:00) and in the afternoon (2-5).

Now thinking about it,.... surviving a falcon attack might all depend on how the training is and it might not mean anything about the type of flyers they are.  

It is complicated to type down, but I am not bias towards any kind of bird. Perhaps intelligence plays that role of survival. 

I believe you have seen it, but there was this video on youtube where the owner took his pigeons (I think he calls them a different name since they do not fit into the common pigeon categories since he took a long time breeding his specific type) on a mobile fly and a falcon attacked them in the sky. But they all survived b/c they all aimed to come straight down into the mobile box on the the rump of his truck and not continue to fly with danger behind their tails.

Goodluck, !!!! 

Oh and I have pushed lock down on my birds for 5 years. Not sure if that was a bad/good idea, but I had to since hawks and owls were arriving every day in the past. Took my birds almost every time with the element of surprise from the thick trees; esp when my birds were on the ground distracted. I have recently just allowed them to fly again a month ago.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thnx for replying and sharing Doig.
Yes I've also seen that video on youtube. All pigeons coming back in the box mounted on the pick up truck. Infact, a friend of mine on PT sent me that link. Wish I could have those type of pigeons or could train mine to do so... That video is amazing.

High flyers are fed as much they can eat(breeders are fed twice) only once a day in evening at about 4pm. Infact they fly more when their crops are empty. Only water is given to them before flying. So they don't associate whistle with food and landing. But I'll try that if the falcon let my new generation of flyers fly and train in peace.


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

Oh yes! indeed "amazing" training.

I am happy to share!

I also give a bit of food before I let my birds out for a loft fly, b/c they seem to not go far when I let them out without food. All they do is fly onto the roof and stare straight back into the loft looking for me to grab for the food tray. Most of them just come back into the loft and wait out for food. After giving food, they rage to get out. So, I feel bad and feed them before letting them out. I must become more brutal to be able to train them correctly! XP 

I want to drop train my pigeons (letting them find their way home miles away) but they tend to not forage far from loft anyways. Hopefully in the future, this may come true.

You are correct, hawks really destroy the process of training birds. Though sometimes letting your birds get chased by hawks is a good thing, as that would train them how to deal with the combat with hawks later in life. It just sucks when the hawk succeeds. >;O

Goodluck!


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

*My pigeons best friends are Squirrels and crows,the moment a hawk or any other predators enter our territory the squirrels give off a high pitched loud alarm.Within seconds i can see my homers taking off like bullets.I have an open loft system,so my homers spend all the day outside the loft ,365 days a year irrespective of the climate or season and the birds can enter and go out of the loft at their free will.So now they have mastered this art of avoiding hawks and have become smart like ferals,Thanks to squirrels and crows,they play a big role *


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello Dr.Boney,
Ur this system is nice. Full freedom to birds. I had the same system with my homers many years back but once a sparrow hawk was about to enter my loft. Thankfully I got there in time to intervene. Here on PT there are reports of people saying that a hawk entered their loft through trap. Crows also started to harras my birds. Crows can be both friends as well as foes to our pigeons. So I took precautions...
Hawk and black kite(called "cheel" locally) is not a problem. I've never lost a bird to a hawk ever. Black kites took only a few birds away in near past. But this particular falcon is the real deal. Few are the chances when he went back empty handed.

I'm not bragging at all but one main problem is that when my birds fly they won't come back for hours no matter how hard you try. If they fly after 3-4 pm they come next day. They keep flying till late and spend the night at the temple.

At a desi auction I paid handsomely for my foundation pair. Rs.3000 for the hen and 2200 for cock. But every single penny I spent was worth it.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Doig
> I want to drop train my pigeons (letting them find their way home miles away) but they tend to not forage far from loft anyways. Hopefully in the future, this may come true.


Yes,you must do that. That way you will find out who the best birds are and you can breed those birds to get more fast homers.



> Originally Posted by Doig
> Though sometimes letting your birds get chased by hawks is a good thing, as that would train them how to deal with the combat with hawks later in life. It just sucks when the hawk succeeds. >;O


Yes U're right. This way birds can polish and sharpen their skills.
And they do have a innate understanding about their predators and skills needed to evade them but sometimes(in my case most of the times) it turns out to be falcon's day.


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## jafacanyan (Jul 17, 2013)

I don't let the baby bird fly around with any falcons around, or any of my adult bird if I see they around, but if there in air and a falcon shows up I let the falcon try! But still try to bring them down quick!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by jafacanyan
> But still try to bring them down quick!


All this time I'm tryina figure out how to do that...
But now I've locked my breeders and some efficient flyers up. Only few young ones are meant for once in a while flying...


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

brocky bieber said:


> Hello Dr.Boney,
> Ur this system is nice. Full freedom to birds. I had the same system with my homers many years back but once a sparrow hawk was about to enter my loft. Thankfully I got there in time to intervene. Here on PT there are reports of people saying that a hawk entered their loft through trap. Crows also started to harras my birds. Crows can be both friends as well as foes to our pigeons. So I took precautions...
> Hawk and black kite(called "cheel" locally) is not a problem. I've never lost a bird to a hawk ever. Black kites took only a few birds away in near past. But this particular falcon is the real deal. Few are the chances when he went back empty handed.
> 
> ...


Hello. Two things: I once read that the indian solo high flyer is holding worlds longest flight record. So my question is this: are they trained like tipplers to drop for droppers( other pigeons)?
Next. Have you tried food called milo? I have read once or twice that milo keeps them down. Also, barely is supposed to keep them out of energy so they do not fly long hours.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by hamlet
> are they trained like tipplers to drop for droppers( other pigeons)?


Hi hamlet,
They are not trained but born not to land even if u show them droppers.My mentor and i worked hard for many years to derive what we desired,(these 3 bloodlines)still working on them to refine them and to do away some undesired traits. Only god knows how much birds we bought and how much gave away for free who didn't have desired qualities. For so many years my mentor and I have worked on stamina,endurance and this particular quality of not landing down because this quality is so desired here. As in competitions only those birds survive who don't fall for droppers/decoy/cheeko. Showing droppers are banned though but dishonest competitors who want to put u down will do it with help of their assistants/partners. They show droppers in a sneaky way somewhere else,ofcourse not on the competition spot. So,"non landing" is priamarily desired quality, which has become a huge problem dealing with this falcon. My birds drop out of the sky like a stone when attacked but usually don't land and go again for the sky.


> Originally Posted by hamlet
> Have you tried food called milo? I have read once or twice that milo keeps them down. Also, barely is supposed to keep them out of energy so they do not fly long hours.


I'm literally confused to hear this. Barley(40%),corn(5-10%) and (white milo)sorgham(10%) are the main ingredients of high flyer or tippler diet. Can u refer from where u have read this?? Pls don't mind my asking bro,I wanna know about it. I may be wrong
All these years,I've been feeding them this.  I didn't notice any I mean any "slow down"


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. This for English Type tipplers: http://www.tipplers.com/search/node/barley
There is one for milo from the roller pigeon folks: later. Thanks and enjoy.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanx for the link hamlet, it really helped me cross check that if I'm feeding my birds right kinda feed. And I'm happy that I'm feeding right type of feed to my beloved birds.
Opinions in the link vary though
Feeding only one type of grain can deprive them of vitamins I guess.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Hi mates...
> There is a lull in the skies which I hate as nobody is flying their tipplers anymore. Reason: this falcon who is sitting on this telecommunication tower 24/7. He has made this tower his home. Always waiting for pigeons to fly and he instantly get to his work of hunting them down. He looks like a trained bird to me as he is so efficient in catching pigeons. Took 7 birds of mine, 23 birds total of all local fanciers in 3 weeks. He sometimes throw them down half eaten. He has become a severe headache.
> But nobody wants to do anything about it because here falcons are protected. If anyone harms falcon then he gets 3 years in jail+fine.
> First fire crackers worked but now he is used to them. And also the neighbors yell for busting loud fire crackers and rockets. We collectively went to meet animal rehab facilities putting forward our losses but they don't bother to take any action.
> Is there any non violent way out to scare the falcon away forever .?.


Non violent??
HE Already took 7 of your birds!!!!! 
I would hunt him down with a Rifle/Shotgun or tell someone professional to do the job !!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Sorry I can't do that. Its against the law. I will get 3 years in jail+25000rs fine. Falcons are protected birds


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I
had to
had to
had to make this post. Cuz I can do nothing, all I can do is vent my helplessness and frustration out. I'm sorry but I'm outta my mind.
This mother* falcon ¥@#¤. I swear I'm gonna kill him. Now the toll of my dead birds is 17. Falco peregrenius%#*&¤, won't let birds fly even for 2 mins. Comes out banging outta nowhere.
Birds are on a lockdown for months. Its fogg here so birds can't be trained. But I'm thinking come feb end or march, what I'm gonna do about this falcon cuz I have to train my birds for competitions then. + another stress of losing squabs to cold even after heating up the loft. I'm going through hell right now.
Entries in the club has started. Yesterday we met at club to plan the races scheduled to start from april end/may onwards and everybody from around 5-8 kms was talking about falcon terror. Falcon is hunting all around the region.

And this is the main reason I posted. I'm world's biggest pigeon enthusiast. I can't take a pigeon suffering. I always feel "the" pain when I see ferals die of cold and hunger...weak,sick,young ferals especially. But this season, apart from cold and hunger this falcon has terrified them to the bone. Now when everybody's birds are on a lockdown for months because of winter, so the falcon has turned to ferals. First the falcon ate fancy/white pigeons to its heart's content. Now its the feral's turn. The falcon has killed so many ferals you can't even imagine.
I saw falcon taking away a feral every dawn or dusk. But now I saw on sunday the falcon killed three ferals on the same day,one at dawn,one in midday and one at evening. Is the falcon killing for fun or she's killing so many pigeons for her chicks. I'm sure she has a family to support but geez...how much her chicks eat? 

And that falcon pair has shown me some never seen before behaviour. The pair hunts in a pack. One chases a feral and other one hides and lies in waits to make a kill.

The local three towers were favorite roosting spot of ferals. They felt safe there as they could see falcon approaching from a mile and could escape in time. They would fly and hide in streets ,houses and trees. But falcon mastered chasing and hunting them down. So many pigeons flew away forever. But local resident ferals either retreated to eucalyptus trees or houses. But falcon didn't leave them in peace even there. Now falcon is doing some never done before things. She attacks perching cornered pigeons and never go empty handed. Also She hides herself in houses and wait for a pigeon or two to pass by and grabs her prey IN NO TIME. What is she doing with so many pigeons? I'm sick and tired of this falcon.
On first of jan,I woke up early (as I usually do) and went upstairs on rooftop to wish my pigeons a happy new year. But as I stepped on the roof I saw I pigeon sitting in hunched posture on the next house because of cold. I was feeling sad for him that he's so cold. And there came the falcon from the other side. Grabbed him,giving him absolutely no time to react. He never knew what hit him. Oh that ripped my heart apart. A moment earlier I was about to wish him happy new year but happiness never came to him. May he rest in peace.
His fellow ferals joined flock and were hovering over the place(4-5 houses away) where the falcon had landed and was killing the feral. But there's nothing they could do. Oh lord,that was the first thing I saw happening in 2014. Dunno what's gonna come in coming months...
Jesus Christ,please damn that falcon. For how long do you wanna see poor ferals suffering???


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## Doig (May 18, 2013)

Dang! Brocky this is not good at all. 

All I can say is that the falcon pair obviously has fledglings at their nest... prob two or more (can there be more than two?) and they are getting big that is why the pair of falcons have been taking more and more birds. Being opportunistic hunters they will catch anything they think they can take advantage of. 

Did you ever complain? 

I feel like you locking up your pigeons have helped you but, b/c there are ferals around... the falcon will not leave. If the situation was only you having pigeons then the falcon would of left already. 

Dang... I hope someone can solve your problem Brocky. I would be stuck in the middle of the rocks if I were in your situation. The only thing I can think of that would be legal is moving houses. But of course that is not what you have in mind nor would I.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

I wanted to write something, but no practical solution looms as It is illegal to shoot falcons, the only thing you can do as you know is locking the birds up that's what I can say, I think after weaning their babies they may cut down excessive hunting ?! you might inform The municipality about your situation too ..


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for your reply Abdul, the authorities donot seem concerned. They are happy that falcons are thriving. Its already many months, Do I need to keep the birds on a lock down forever
Its a terrible situation here


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you'd better build a large aviary for them to get sunshine and fresh air. As long as the falcons are around, then obviously your birds won't be safe.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I think using a hand mirror to reflect the sun in his eyes would be so annoying that he would leave. Just mounting a mirror in a fixed position would have no effect on him. Just a thought.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> I think you'd better build a large aviary for them to get sunshine and fresh air. As long as the falcons are around, then obviously your birds won't be safe.
> _


I copy you. But how would I train my ybs for upcoming competitions.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

drifter said:


> I think using a hand mirror to reflect the sun in his eyes would be so annoying that he would leave. Just mounting a mirror in a fixed position would have no effect on him. Just a thought.


Thanx for the suggestion. Tried a lot of things. Lazors lights, paintballs, flashlights etc but there's no stopping him.

Wish I had someone by my side, to help me who had a shotgun! Cuz that bloody winged beast won't even fall into trap


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Today itself the falcon caught one of my pigeons and goodness gracious it got away but with multiple puncture wounds over its back and shoulder. Its a four month old(probably) hen pigeon. She's in shock but lucky to be alive


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh so sorry to see her in pain but glad she is alive. It is so risky to fly them there? Sometimes it makes me rethink of we have got any Falcons here and I don't recognize them? I just see Eagles here but my pigeons fear of flying, whenever I open them on terrace, they look at the sky and return back to room. Don't know why they seem scared even when the sky is clear.
Do you see there Falcons flying or they keep hiding themselves on trees etc? And attack suddenly. You saw him attacking today? 
By the way she is a beautiful bird, may she recovers soon.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So sorry to hear your young pigeon was attacked. He really is lovely. Hope he is all better soon.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

hope she recovers soon...!!


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Guns*

What are the gun laws like in India? Can you own a shotgun?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks guys. She's on recovery, hopefully. My only concern is her wing. Last time a pigeon faced same sort of attack and his wing hanged forever.


Falcons play both ways. Homers fly low. Falcons attack them by taking cover behind building and stuff. But when they fly up high falcons have nowhere to hide and they come banging. My highflyers are always attacked up in the sky where there's nothing for falcons to hide behind. Yes I saw the hen being attacked by the falcon.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

No idea about the rules Chuck but I talked to one who owns a shotgun. He refused to help as he said its 3 years in jail and 25000 rs fine if we shoot at The Protected Falcon


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi kiddy,
I think you've never seen a falcon hunt pigeons.
This is what happens
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DMZO5XCM6sA#


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> No idea about the rules Chuck but I talked to one who owns a shotgun. He refused to help as he said its 3 years in jail and 25000 rs fine if we shoot at The Protected Falcon


That penalty is worse than here in the states. When the laws were enacted here the falcon and hawk numbers were down, but that is not the case any longer. The problem with ever getting restrictions lifted is that a number of groups have found a way to get at the public's money through re-introduction programs, and they have no intention of ever giving up on that easy money.

I'll never understand those that put more value in a wild bird than in a man's life work.

You might look into taking up archery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgZ5EmXJbkc


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

As far I know, we can't get a shot gun here in India without licence. We can just get an air gun  
To get licence whatever you do, you won't get it. Lol
OK may be you can get it if you are very high profile person, well known celebrity, leader or have some good liaison with leaders or above mentioned people, else you won't dream of getting a license and a licensed gun.  
And after you get it, don't think about shooting Falcons as Jass suggested because you will lose your shot gun too and jail and penalty. I think in India violence is not accepted so such hard rules on guns and all


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

But who is going to tell them you have killed a Falcon Jass? I don't think anybody will take such pain for you except your neighbors? Who are always bothered in thinking what others do?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi kiddy,
> I think you've never seen a falcon hunt pigeons.
> This is what happens
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DMZO5XCM6sA#


Hi Jass, I don't think even I can see that. I am afraid to click on the link as well. Quite painful to see them being hunted


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

kiddy said:


> But who is going to tell them you have killed a Falcon Jass? I don't think anybody will take such pain for you except your neighbors? Who are always bothered in thinking what others do?


I live in/near Chandigarh. Rules are followed very strictly over here. Chandigarh is one of the Union Territories which centre govt rules not state govt. I know things are different in many other parts of India but not here. People and jealous fanciers will tell the police if I attempt to harm the falcon pair as I've been warned before. Not only mine but this falcon pair hunts birds of many other fanciers too but all are silent and don't wanna take law into their hands


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

kiddy said:


> Hi Jass, I don't think even I can see that. I am afraid to click on the link as well. Quite painful to see them being hunted


H-Hey,
Its nature. Give it a try. Good thing is that in this clip, pigeons beat the falcon. The falcon goes empty handed. So you're gonna enjoy it. Its thrilling. Same thing happens with my pigeons


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> I live in/near Chandigarh. Rules are followed very strictly over here. Chandigarh is one of the Union Territories which centre govt rules not state govt. I know things are different in many other parts of India but not here. People and jealous fanciers will tell the police if I attempt to harm the falcon pair as I've been warned before. Not only mine but this falcon pair hunts birds of many other fanciers too but all are silent and don't wanna take law into their hands


Oh OK that's good if rules are strictly followed there. Even I cannot ever suggest to kill a bird or any animal not even Falcons.i love all, neither I can see them dying nor my pigeons. It is just if we can scare them away when they attack our pigeons, that's the motive only.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> H-Hey,
> Its nature. Give it a try. Good thing is that in this clip, pigeons beat the falcon. The falcon goes empty handed. So you're gonna enjoy it. Its thrilling. Same thing happens with my pigeons


Oh glad that the Pigeon could escape, now I am relaxed and going to watch it


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Chuck K said:


> That penalty is worse than here in the states. When the laws were enacted here the falcon and hawk numbers were down, but that is not the case any longer. The problem with ever getting restrictions lifted is that a number of groups have found a way to get at the public's money through re-introduction programs, and they have no intention of ever giving up on that easy money.
> 
> I'll never understand those that put more value in a wild bird than in a man's life work.
> 
> ...


Yes, you're true. Rules have tightened here because of poaching and trade of tiger bones , tusks etc.

Thanks for the video. I've tried catapult on hawks and it worked but falcons are hard to nail cuz they sit high up on a telecommunication tower. Maybe its time to try a little more dangerous. Archery... Well let's see


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