# Lump growing near beak



## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi 

I rescued this pigeon about 3 weeks ago, actually he just appeared in our yard, I am thinking he was set free at a wedding or some sort of ceremony. 

He always seemed a bit weak but what I have done so far is gave him meds for worms, fleas and vitamins.

Today he showed up with a swollen lump appearing next to his beak. 

Any ideas of what this might be? He also has bad breath, I took a sniff to see if it might be yeast, fungal???

Any ideas let me know 

Cheers


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Possible he is getting pox? Bad breath could indicate canker. But not sure what the lump would be. Does he have any others?
Did you set him free? You said he showed up.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am wondering about infection. Is he loose or caged?


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

cwebster said:


> Am wondering about infection. Is he loose or caged?


thanks for replying.

He is free to come and go, since he arrived in our yard, he has decided to stick around. We treated him with the basic care, he eats and drinks but today we noticed this bump growing next to his beak on the lower part. I don't think it is low enough for the gland but my husband said he does have a bad smell in his mouth.

I checked his mouth out but no appearance of any growth of any kind inside.

Still baffled on what to do.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

cwebster said:


> Am wondering about infection. Is he loose or caged?


he came to our yard on his own and has decided to stay so far. He is free to fly around and he comes back at night to sleep


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is a domestic bird, which he looks to be, then he won't live long outside. Domestic birds don't know how to live on their own, and don't usually last very long in the wild. Being white, he will also stand out to hawks who will grab him. He is still just a baby, and isn't safe out there.


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## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

careyotis said:


> thanks for replying.
> 
> He is free to come and go, since he arrived in our yard, he has decided to stick around. We treated him with the basic care, he eats and drinks but today we noticed this bump growing next to his beak on the lower part. I don't think it is low enough for the gland but my husband said he does have a bad smell in his mouth.
> 
> ...



Do you see any other symptoms of canker ?
Canker is not always visible in the throat. I think you should give him metro and see if there is any improvement. You should notice changes in 4/5 days when using metro. Use for 10 days if canker is stubborn.If no improvement could be pox.


Pigeon pox goes away by itself and there isn't treatment for it. Supportive care helps and bird shall recover by itself.

I suggest you keep him closed and give him apple sauce with water. He could be caught by predators in his weak state. Keep him with you as Jay said. He won't last outside.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Trouble is you should not give antibiotics if it is pox because it weakens the birds resistance and the pox takes an ever firmer hold which can be fatal. I'd rule out pox before giving antibiotics.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

FredaH said:


> Trouble is you should not give antibiotics if it is pox because it weakens the birds resistance and the pox takes an ever firmer hold which can be fatal. I'd rule out pox before giving antibiotics.


Hi Freda, that is good to know. Can poop tests show if it is Pox?


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> If he is a domestic bird, which he looks to be, then he won't live long outside. Domestic birds don't know how to live on their own, and don't usually last very long in the wild. Being white, he will also stand out to hawks who will grab him. He is still just a baby, and isn't safe out there.


Well our birds are free to come and go as they like, they have a loft that is where they sleep but they pretty much stay in our yard napping, eating, taking baths etc.

I live in Brazil and all we have are birds in Sao Paulo, we have no other types of wild animals running around, sure an eagle can get them but it is a risk I would rather take, I feel so bad about keeping them locked up. Knock on wood, we have had no attacks as of yet.


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## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

careyotis said:


> Hi Freda, that is good to know. Can poop tests show if it is Pox?


A proper qualified vet can tell if its pox or canker. He/she can look at the lesions etc and analyze.

If it turns out to be Pox-
give vitamin supplements, specially Vitamin A and probiotics.

You never know when a predator can turn up. Your birds fly in flock which is much safer and than a bird who is sick +alone.

I understand that you don't want to keep him closed up but its for your and the birds benefit. You can let him out once he better but you need to keep him closed for treatment. What if he doesn't turn up one night ?

Plus he is ill and the other birds can get infected. Its too risky in my opinion.

This is not meant to offend you. Me and jay are just explaining why it isn't a good idea.

I hope your bird recovers soon and I wish you the best!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

As others have said, protection from predators, warmth, and getting consistent care would all be furthered by keeping him confined until he is all better. Thank you for helping him.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Dotty said:


> A proper qualified vet can tell if its pox or canker. He/she can look at the lesions etc and analyze.
> 
> If it turns out to be Pox-
> give vitamin supplements, specially Vitamin A and probiotics.
> ...


He is confined and will be until his treatment is done of course, I was just saying that is how we keep our birds but when they are sick we keep them quiet and taken care of for sure. 

In anycase my question still stands, can a stool exam show if it is Pox? How does that work?

The issue here is finding a vet to take care of him bc of the fact he is a pigeon they usually put them down bc they are not national birds. Most centers won't even take them in for an exam, Brazil sucks for treatment of pigeons.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Dont take him anywhere please that he might be euthanized. Someone here can advise about tests for pox i hope. If it is an abscess he might need antibiotics. Thank you so very much for taking care of him!
Dont know if any of these places will help pigeons.
http://wildlife.rescueshelter.com/international?br
And here is a list of avian vets.
http://www.aav.org/search/newsearch.aspK
If you take the bird to a vet please insist they fix him, that it is your personal pet, and that you want him to be helped not euthanized. When we adopted our first first pigeon, an injured feral, the local wildlife rescue was just going to kill her so we adopted her, because they dont help pigeons. If your pigeon has pox i think it will resolve on its own. How is his eating, drinking, pooping, energy level? Very cute bird. Can you try putting antibiotic cream on it if it has an odor if it might be an abscess? Not sure if antibiotic cream would make pox worse...it is my understanding that pox lesions need to dry up and fall off but someone more expert should be able to address this. Dont know if pox will show up on a fecal. Here is a brief disease description including canker and pox. http://asaicoloft.com/asaicoloft/PigeonsHealth.htm
http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/pigeon_pox.php
Here is a photo and link to a discussion here.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f27/help-with-pigeon-health-problem-canker-or-pox-21654.html


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Just came back from school.I treated my pigeon who had pox and ornithosis. Pox grew out to be warts on both of his ears and he had small pox as well. It was hard to get him back to life but the medicines which I used actually worked. If it was canker it would easily identified from his poop. It would highlighting green and would like paint.If it is pox, you can apply pigeon pox cream on the warts/pox. He seemed to be alright in the pic. Guess it's pox. Give him good food and vitamins to help him regain his immune system. i will pray for your bird as well
I will give you a pic of the pox cream. You can buy it online.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Here is a pic of the cream. You can buy it in mercasystem.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

*rosequartz*



Rosequartz said:


> Just came back from school.I treated my pigeon who had pox and ornithosis. Pox grew out to be warts on both of his ears and he had small pox as well. It was hard to get him back to life but the medicines which I used actually worked. If it was canker it would easily identified from his poop. It would highlighting green and would like paint.If it is pox, you can apply pigeon pox cream on the warts/pox. He seemed to be alright in the pic. Guess it's pox. Give him good food and vitamins to help him regain his immune system. i will pray for your bird as well
> I will give you a pic of the pox cream. You can buy it online.


Hi Rosequartz, thanks that would be great if you can give me a photo of what the cream looks like...I do have one that is liquid form called "thuya" I guess it is like Iodine my husband told me. So yesterday I put some on it...there is no puss or sore like lesions on it, just a bump...it seems to look more like an abscess to me???

We also gave him 50mg of Metr., and will continue for the next 9 days. His breath is terrible and he has a deep grunting sound he makes when we get close to him, he does not look like any of our other pigeons, I am thinking he is a King Pigeon??...we don't know if it is type of breed or an infection. Physically he is strong and healthy looking, he eats well.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Rosequartz said:


> Here is a pic of the cream. You can buy it in mercasystem.


thank you so much!


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Your welcome. Hope your bird recovers soon!


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## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

King pigeons tend to be heavy and very big in build. He looks young so you can't tell now. When he grows you will be able to tell. There are 2 types of king pigeon (utility and show). I am guessing your bird could utility or just a domestic pigeon with white colors.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Is the bump on beak and ear yellow or is it just bulged?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Rosequartz said:


> Just came back from school.I treated my pigeon who had pox and ornithosis. Pox grew out to be warts on both of his ears and he had small pox as well. It was hard to get him back to life but the medicines which I used actually worked. If it was canker it would easily identified from his poop. It would highlighting green and would like paint.If it is pox, you can apply pigeon pox cream on the warts/pox. He seemed to be alright in the pic. Guess it's pox. Give him good food and vitamins to help him regain his immune system. i will pray for your bird as well
> I will give you a pic of the pox cream. You can buy it online.



Those green droppings don't indicate canker. They indicate that the bird isn't eating. That can be from many different things. Often with canker they can have those droppings, but they can have them with many other illness or injury as well.
They would need to get a swab sample from the birds throat for testing.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Yes I agree many illness can cause green droppings. But for canker the white urates are like white paint along with the highlighting green droppings. And it is not solid.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

How is the bird doing?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

On the question of giving Metro in case the bird has Pox...............


Is there any treatment for pigeons with pigeon pox?

No. There is no direct treatment for a pox virus. Sometimes however, where pox vesicles form inside the mouth, because of the warm wet environment here, they can become secondarily infected with bacteria and canker organisms. Sometimes these birds will benefit from a short course of anti-canker medication and an antibiotic. This will help to dry up the lesion and make the bird more comfortable while the virus runs its course. Lesions on the skin are best left alone. Attempting to remove them or treating with various topical agents tends to cause more tissue destruction and delay healing. 
http://www.melbournebirdvet.com/pigeon-pox-vaccination.aspx


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Rosequartz said:


> Yes I agree many illness can cause green droppings. But for canker the white urates are like white paint along with the highlighting green droppings. And it is not solid.


With canker, the urates are often more yellow in color. With canker, the bird will often get the starvation droppings with a lot of wet around them, because they are not eating, but do drink a lot.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Pox cream is suggested by vets. The cream does not contain any harmful chemicals. It makes the pox to dry off rather than growing bigger. when I applied this to my bird, the warts started to fall of within 15-20 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Rose, I posted that whole paragraph more for the info on whether or not to give the Metro during pox. The info on putting anything on the lesions was part of the paragraph. But the fact that they suggest it, doesn't mean it is better to do it. Vets are sometimes wrong. The lesions may have dried up and come off by then anyway, which they will do all by themselves. There are many vets that will tell you to leave them alone too.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Rosequartz said:


> Is the bump on beak and ear yellow or is it just bulged?


it is not on the beak...it is below the beak but at the beginning of it...don't know if that helps...but if you can you can see the photos I attached of the lump


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## nitamircela (Oct 28, 2008)

I had a similar question about (maybe) pox knowing that diluted betadine (iodine) dabbing helps but I was reassured that since nothing happened for a while (the other pigeons were okay) it was not pox. Little wart. I cannot see clearly your pigeon's lump, can you indicate with a little arrow? My pigeon's "lump" was perfectly spherical.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The lump is that swelling in the area between the eye and the beak. Shouldn't be a lump there. Could also be a bug bite.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

nitamircela said:


> I had a similar question about (maybe) pox knowing that diluted betadine (iodine) dabbing helps but I was reassured that since nothing happened for a while (the other pigeons were okay) it was not pox. Little wart. I cannot see clearly your pigeon's lump, can you indicate with a little arrow? My pigeon's "lump" was perfectly spherical.


the lump is hard not mushy and feels almost like a cyst....??? I have attached a photo with the circle to indicate where it is


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## nitamircela (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh, yeah, Coorcoorel had something like this after her traumatic smashing against the windows which made her lose her sight. It took 7-10 days until the lump disappeared (due closeness to the eye I did not dab cayenne little touch ups on it, what healed my cat's --much bigger-- wound once but just icy tiny touch ups) I am not sure if you can make a cayenne touch up so carefully not to touch either beak or, especially, eye, so leave the nature heal by itself --maybe some icy biny touch ups-- if he does not seem to suffer otherwise. Or does he?

PS My pigeon's spherical "lump" was hard too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't put cayenne so close to the eye. That would burn and be very painful if any got into the eye. 
Not sure why everybody wants to put all kinds of things on this poor birds face when you don't even know what it is that you are treating. Sometimes you can cause more damage than help.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't put cayenne so close to the eye. That would burn and be very painful if any got into the eye.
> Not sure why everybody wants to put all kinds of things on this poor birds face when you don't even know what it is that you are treating. Sometimes you can cause more damage than help.


yes I won't be putting any cayenne on it...I have him on metro., today was day 2, if anything it might help with his stink breath if it is some sort of yeast and this sound he makes, has anyone heard it before? My other pigeons don't have the same type of beak he has and they definitely do not make this noise...he has some sort of low sounding grunt when we pick him up and he is totally more nervous than our others.

He is so beautiful, his eyes are huge in comparison to my others. I don't think he is the same for sure, I just don't know exactly what type he is. Just from photos on the net he looks to be a King pigeon or the type they use for weddings to release.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Rosequartz said:


> How is the bird doing?


he is doing well, not much to report, it is day 2 on metro and he still has this bump. He is in good spirits and eats well, let's see in a few days. Thanks for asking.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Might be a young homer too. Would need a better pic, not so close to the bird.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Phoebe had two strange growths next to her beak in her old age that were not pox, just weird growths, per Dr Speer who said not to worry about them. Hope the cyst is just a benign thing like that.
Sorry it is upside down. She had a weird growth on each side.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. It's not the same as growths like that, that they sometimes get. Does look like a cyst or something like that.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So for a cyst, what should be done? I have had guinea pigs with sebaceous cysts with pasty goo inside that went away. If it is more solid should it just be watched and removed only if it enlarges ? If it is just cosmetic no problem.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It may go away on its own. If not and continues to get bigger, then might need a vet. All depends on what is causing it.


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## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Rose, I posted that whole paragraph more for the info on whether or not to give the Metro during pox. The info on putting anything on the lesions was part of the paragraph. But the fact that they suggest it, doesn't mean it is better to do it. Vets are sometimes wrong. The lesions may have dried up and come off by then anyway, which they will do all by themselves. There are many vets that will tell you to leave them alone too.


Yes I agree with you jay that vets have suggestions which can be wrong. The cream I suggested isn’t any local product. it's ok though. you helped more people and i know you have more experience than me.It is branded and is meant for racing pigeons and falcons. 
According to me, it looks like canker infection. You can continue with metro. Careyotis can you please check for any growth in the ears? If so it is an ear infection. Reply back here if you find anything as such.


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