# What color?



## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

I do not know the parents of the two birds in question. Is the first one spread ash toy stencil, or spread ash dirty? Maybe spread ash sooty? What is causing the lacing? The second I believe is brown t-pattern, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

*Second bird*

Second bird


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I can only see one bird, Its spread reduced blue IMO, I have one similar


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Brown T Pattern probably smoky by the look of it too. possibly dirty too.

Edit to add: Actually, Does it have pearl eye? I thought due to the level of bleaching that brown was a more likely possibility than silver but after looking again the eye appears red??? Browns should have false pearl.


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## tman10001 (Sep 8, 2012)

how do you get this colour its lovely


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Blue - Spread ( Black ) And then add reduced. You would need a bird that carries reduced to begin with atleast, Preferably a reduced cock or cock that carries the gene but a reduced hen would work too, only issue with the latter is the first cross's would not show the gene at all..


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Brown T Pattern probably smoky by the look of it too. possibly dirty too.
> 
> Edit to add: Actually, Does it have pearl eye? I thought due to the level of bleaching that brown was a more likely possibility that silver but after looking again the eye appears red??? Browns should have false pearl.


Yes the eyes are red, does this mean it is reduced? I didn't know all browns have pearl eyes


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

The second bird is dilute blue t-checker (silver t-check)
The first bird isn't nearly as simple. It may be reduced, as NZ concluded, or it could be a combo of **** indigo and opal on spread ash red. I suspect that the bird has some visible reddish hints on its breast which would not be typical of reduced on spread. A white wing bar is also evident indicating bar pattern in which case reduced would be expressed differently than NZ's pic which is a checkered bird. Only a test mating to blue bar mate will determine the color of this bird.

Edited to add - This bird may be reduced on ash red bar. I have never seen this combination so am unsure of its phenotype. Has anyone else seen it?


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

wow guys, those are great colours, its a goal of mine to get a few colours like that with my homers and now if someone out there has young birds there willing let me know pm. i ve read ron huntly s web site a few times, good read a little wordy.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> The second bird is dilute blue t-checker (silver t-check)
> The first bird isn't nearly as simple. It may be reduced, as NZ concluded, or it could be a combo of **** indigo and opal on spread ash red. I suspect that the bird has some visible reddish hints on its breast which would not be typical of reduced on spread. A white wing bar is also evident indicating bar pattern in which case reduced would be expressed differently than NZ's pic which is a checkered bird. Only a test mating to blue bar mate will determine the color of this bird.
> 
> Edited to add - This bird may be reduced on ash red bar. I have never seen this combination so am unsure of its phenotype. Has anyone else seen it?


I thought my hen was check based too but so far paired to a blue bar I have produced 14 blue bars, 10 blacks, No checks, not conclusive but most definitely indicitive of the bird being blue bar spread reduced.

You are right though, The bird could be anything but I am pretty sure reduced is in the mix.

My monitor is crap but I agree with you that the other bird is silver T check, Considering the OP'er has confirmed the eyes are red. All browns have false pearls right??? I have never seen quite so much fading on my silvers in the flights but have heard of this.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Roger Siemens said:


> wow guys, those are great colours, its a goal of mine to get a few colours like that with my homers and now if someone out there has young birds there willing let me know pm. i ve read ron huntly s web site a few times, good read a little wordy.


wordy you reckon? I thought he did a great job at keeping it simple and not too wordy considering how complicated of a subject genetics is.


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## vangimage (Aug 15, 2010)

The first one is either reduce andalusian or reduce spread black. Second some kind of dun, third bird is a D. Opal.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

oh he did a great job and it was a few pages long, it was easy to understand for genetics. i really could not stop reading all 10 or so pages.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

10 pages, There is like hundreds isnt there.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

lol, well its a few pages , for sure and easier than what is in the book THE PIGEON by levi and the web site had better pictures.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree, the website had great pics, I learnt everything from there a few years back, In saying that, Breeding the birds has taught me more, And seeing pics here and hearing others opinions.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Couldn't the first pic be simply **** indigo spread (andalusion = het indigo spread)?


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

Henk69 said:


> Couldn't the first pic be simply **** indigo spread (andalusion = het indigo spread)?


The loft where I got the first bird had a lot of indigo and opal in it. I bought an Andalusian that I believe is also opal. And a couple barless blues that are opal also (washed out tail bars).


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I would not think it is **** indigo spread on blue as the bird has a light head and is a lot more even in colour all over than a **** indigo spread which fades out down the bird, I think it looks like a classic reduced spread expression but as I always say with things like this, We can only guess on here.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Creek13 said:


> The loft where I got the first bird had a lot of indigo and opal in it. I bought an Andalusian that I believe is also opal. And a couple barless blues that are opal also (washed out tail bars).


Did the loft have any ash reds in it?

A pic of the birds underside with wings extended would also be interesting, along with a pic of its tail spread out (top view).


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I would not think it is **** indigo spread on blue as the bird has a light head and is a lot more even in colour all over than a **** indigo spread which fades out down the bird, I think it looks like a classic reduced spread expression but as I always say with things like this, We can only guess on here.


I think it's not reduced, Evan, because the flights are too consistent in color. All the reduced birds I've ever seen have varying color hues among flight feathers of an individual bird, as does your bird in this thread. Reduced flights also tend to express a bit more lacing effect than the bird in question.

I agree that **** indigo on blue/black would have a darker head. I've raised some **** indigo dom. opal blue bars in the past and all had darker heads than this one, however, they also had some light red expression in their bar and slightly darker tail and flights causing me to lean more toward this bird being opal and indigo on ash red bar.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Would a reduced ash red show flights similar to this due to the lack of pigment ash red flights show in their normal state.


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

*more pics*

more pictures of bird number one


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

more pictures


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

last picture


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## Creek13 (May 21, 2012)

I noticed Dennis Khun has a reduced black on his website that looks very similar to my bird. whiteracers.com, under the rare color homers for sale section


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Would a reduced ash red show flights similar to this due to the lack of pigment ash red flights show in their normal state.


I don't know, as I indicated earlier, I've never seen one.

After viewing the last three pics I'm convinced that it's ash red, but don't know if it's reduced or an indigo and opal combo. Also can't decipher if it's spread or not, although I think it is. A test mating to blue is going to be the best option for sure answers, and even then it may take a couple generations.

Thanks for the additional pics, Creek13.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

my wife wants DNA for clones,  and i really think that is a great looking bird to. i think i would breed it to a blue as well, but then again perhaps to a red ash could give you more color combos to work with, i m sure you take the time to wright it down in a journal and in a pedigree? how long have you worked on getting birds like this in your team ?


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