# Another ill pigeon found!



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

One of the pigeons that come in my garden has been very ill yesterday and today I managed to grab her and take her inside. Since yesterday she started to walk funny and now when I inspected her wing there are some bones sticking out a bit or it could be some stuck together feathers, she is a bit messy. Her flight was heavy since yesterday. I noticed her having a droopy wing for months but she always flew very well and she rarely showed the wing to be droopy so I think that is quite and old injury. The wing is broken right at the end joints (could be feathers stuck together also) but she can move it a bit. I don’t feel any broken bones on her feet, she kind of wobbles while she walks from some ware up her leg. She ate well in her cage, she is alert but she is quite skinny. She is not frighten, is just one of those birds that if you have food in your hands she forgets you are a human and she never needed any encouragement. Perhaps this could be PMV? I have Synulox and Baytril available.
I named her Blackye, picture bellow. I tried to convince her to give me another photo angle with the bad wing but it was not showing being droopy anyway and on top of that she winged flapped me and grunted at me. I keep her separate from my other pigeon in another room so no illness can be spread.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi chriss.

Thank you for helping this needy bird.

Please follow the information on this link first:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

Make sure she is warm and out of drafts and do provide her with a deep little (spill proof) dish to eat out of in case she does have PMV. Also, give her a small deep water dish, that she cannot get her face in and drown-if she does the upside down head tilt.

Have you noticed any other symptoms? How does the poop look?

Once she is stable have a closer look at the wing and update us.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I got her nice and cosy with no drafts. I have put water in with her and she does not do any weird head movements. I have put some dried grass at the bottom of her cage and I can not tell for sure haw her poops look but I will get back at that.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Could be arthritis from a chronic Paratyphoid (or other) infection. Hard to say without more observation but my initial tendency would be to start her on Baytril. What does it look like where these feathers are stuck together? Is there any black looking stuff between the feathers?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Personally, I'd lose the dried grass because it can introduce unwanted pests
into the bird's hospital setting. You could try doing a bird burrito leaving the
injured wing out and gently sponge bathing the area in question to see if
you can get a better look at what's going on w/the bird. If the bird isn't
adequately self-feeding you may need to augment the feedings w/one of the
recommended methods that you are comfortable with such as soaking puppy
kibble and placing @ the rear of the mouth so that the bird can swallow on it's
own. Make sure to keep the bird warm.

If PMV, antibiotics aren't recommended, if Paratyphoid then Baytril is the antibiotic of choice, if this is a recent injury that you may not have observed
in the making as in a cat-caught bird, Synulox would be the preferred medication.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chris,

You said the bones or feathers were at the end joints...which end are you referring to? Can she flap both wings or only one?

I had a wood pigeon brought to me a few weeks ago, he was unable to fly and he had these sharp boney bits sticking out by his neck and near his crop. I hadn't come across anything like it before so I took him to Hallswood and they said it was some sort of mite...I haven't ever come across a feral pigeon with articular paratyphoid or arthritis either, I don't know whether it is very common in the UK.

Obviously the Gower Hospital is out, but would you be able to have your vet check it out? I don't think it is PMV . The obe danger of taking a pigeon with PMV to a vet is that it is a notifiable disease, but my vet says that they have to be reported only if tests reveal PMV so he should be safe enough.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Ok, I just had a better inspection of her and I just noticed 2 things:
-	underneath her other wing, not the one with the bone sticking, there is where her wing meets body- I suppose that is the shoulder there is a big purple patch. Poor things, I can’t believe she was able to fly with that.
- on the back of her head slightly sideways down her neck there is a wound. Is a dried scab. Perhaps of 2 of 3 days old. Is quite big, looks like the size of a half a penny coin. It has no sign of infection, is all dried up and hard.
I see no other things on her body, I will inspect her more tomorrow and let her calm down now. She defiantly at and she has plenty of seeds in her crop. I do not know if she figure it out haw to drink the water from the little box I put it in so I just gave her a little bit of water myself with a small syringe.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chris,

She really needs to be seen by a vet so that the bone that is sticking out can be dealt with. There could be infection so start her on Synulox, 1/2 tablet now then from tomorrow 1/4 tablet twice a day. Otherwise 0.2 ml of Baytril once daily.

I have had two pigeons that had a bone sticking out. One had the bone filed down and then the skin stitched over it, he was able to fly again. The other one had the dead bone trimmed by the vet because while it was sticking out the wound coudn't heal. After it was trimmed the wound healed.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

My opinion that that thing there is a bone sticking out and yes she is able to flap bout of her wing very well and flies. She is a bit of a heavy flyer though.

Pidgey there is not black thing where the bone is sticking out. There is a blackish dried hard scab on her head down the. It looks like a scab that is not infected to me and in the scab there are a few feathers tangled of that just are where the scab is. 

Feralpigeon I will get rid of the grass and put toilet paper.

Cythia, it is the last joint, where the bones form the v shape right at the end and not at the shoulder. She flaps both of her wings usefully.
I will try to take her to the vet tomorrow and see what he says. I am not taking any pigeons at the Gower Hospital ever, I really think they give pigeons a fair chance.

I am more inclined to think that she has suffered some sort of accident or attacked by something.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I will take her to the vet on Monday. They are closed tomorrrow.
I think I am gonna start with that Sinoulox tonight


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The forward curves of the wings that sit on either side of the chest just behind or to the side of the crop (kinda' depends on the stance) are equivalent to the wrists on us. Whenever they get a wound and bleed, the blood gets into the feathers and forms some pretty hard scabs. That's what I was asking about. It's sometimes pretty difficult getting those softened and removed for more accurated assessement. They make some pretty secure dressings, too.

Is the thing on the back of her head that you're talking about slightly visible in the picture above? There's a funny feather anomaly there that could be anything--can't tell from the picture.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Pidgey,
Yes, it is visible in the picture. Where her feathers are like that there is the scab.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've had birds here fly lopsided due to one wing not rotating properly from a long arthritic process. When you capture them and then manipulate their wings, they often won't rotate as easily upward or as far. In short, they begin to get stiff. You've certainly got the probability of an injury and sometimes that can be a hard thing to say for sure. I've got that one up in the loft that I got as a squeaker under an underpass that had a burst Paratyphoid boil on his elbow. There was a trail of watery blood oozing out and we got him healed up from that within a few weeks. The wing still hangs low to this day and the joint itself is still enlarged. He flies a little but he'd never make it "out there".

It's sometimes kinda' hard to be sure on whether a bone's sticking out or not for a few reasons, one of them being that there skin is so thin out on the wing that it's almost translucent. There are quite a few little downy feathers out there on the wrist so you don't usually get to see in there very easily. It might help you to study the skeletal drawings here:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

...and see if you can identify what bone might be sticking out.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Pidgey, seems to be radius to radiale. There it feels a bit like a lump with a pointy thing out. Feathers are so close together and I can’t see a thing. Could be maybe a pointy feather there but is too thick. She is not bothered that I am touching it, she might not show it off. Is just so hard to tell.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can swab a little rubbing alcohol on the feathers of that area and render it easier to see. Don't put on too much or the bird will get drunk.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Pidgey, I was thinking to trim the feathers but that would only get me more pointy things around there. I will leave it for tomorrow and as I don’t want to stress the bird out.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it is kinda' late there. The use of rubbing alcohol comes right out of the avian veterinary books, by the way--it's not my own half-baked idea.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Pidgey, I looked around and I do not have any in the house. I will look tomorrow at the supermarket but they might not have it so I will have to wait until Monday for the pharmacy that has it to open.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I gave Blackye the Synulox as Cyhthia instructed tonight.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I gave Blackye the Synulox as Cyhthia instructed tonight.


That is good. If it was injured by an animal then there is a good chance of infection developing, but any open would could get infected.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye is in her cage and she has been calm today. I surprised her today sitting in one leg like pigeons do, she was sitting in the leg that she is limping with, strange bird.
I took a look at her wing where that bone is sticking out and I dampened it with water so I can see well. It seems to be a hard black bone ( I think is bone) there. 
I am calling the vet tomorrow and I hope they have space for an consultation


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye ate very little yesterday and today she hasn’t even touched the food. The day I got her she ate a lot of seeds. She has many types of seeds in her cage. Maybe she traumatised and that is why she doesn’t eat. I leave her alone in her cage with half the cage covered and don’t bother her. I already have one pigeon at home that does not eat on his own since December, do these guys talk trough the walls or something?


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

The vet was fully booked today but I have got an appointment for tomorrow already.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

chriss80 said:


> Blackye ate very little yesterday and today she hasn’t even touched the food. The day I got her she ate a lot of seeds. She has many types of seeds in her cage.


She might have eaten originally because she was starving and now can't digest the seeds she ate. Could be worms, Coccidiosis, canker or any of many bacterial infections. What do the poops look like--post a picture?

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,
her poops look normal, just the the other piegeon I have and there are no worms. I will try to get some pictures lately.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, as long as there are solids, then stuff's going through. Some antibiotics do give them an upset stomach and they might slacken off on what they're eating for a short period. If it goes too long, then a lot of us start tube feeding them, depending.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

When do you think I should start tube feeding her? I am afraid I will discourage her from eating by herself if I tube feed her. I Perhaps she is just stubborn, she would of done anything for seeds while she was outside.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's always hard for somebody who can't see the bird to make that decision. Since you said she's skinny, I probably wouldn't go much longer than a day but I'd also not give her very much at a time. You can give her a real small meal (10 cc) and see how that goes.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I am going to give her another 8 hours until is time for her meds and see what she is doing until then, if she has not eating by then I am going to tube feed her. She sits in her cage and out of all the places she can sit down she chooses to stay in the middle right with the food in front of her. She seems to be contemplating to eat or not to eat.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cristina,

When I started rescuing pigeons I came to the conclusion that a watched pigeon never eats. Do you feed the birds in your garden peanuts? Sometimes if you put about 5 peanuts near them and then leave the room, you will find the peanuts gone when you return. I have watched them through a crack in the door, they gulp down the seeds and then return to exactly the position that they were in.

I would resist tube feeding until the poops show that she isn't eating, that is when they come out very small and green. It often seems that once you start to tube feed a bird it doesn't go back to self feeding very quickly. But you could give her a bit of Poly Aid to ensure she is receiving the nutrition that she needs. Also, if you have a sniff at the small seeds that I sent you, one lot smells of aniseed. Try her with those.

Good luck at the vets. And remember, whatever you are told don't let them put her down! Always take time to think things over and consult this forum first.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hello Cynthia,
I am counting the peanuts and yes those wore one of her favourites but unfortunaly none is gone. I have some food from on of the bags you sent me and now I will put some from the second one too. She is all alone in a room quiet and I am not keeping an eye on her, I check her every 2 hours or so. When I captured her and first time put her in the cage she was trying to escape but in the same time she was picking some seeds up while she was trying to find a way out.
The poos don’t look like she is starving yet.
No worry, I am not letting the doctors to put her to sleep.


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## chlee09 (Mar 11, 2007)

I hope she gets well soon...


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Well she just ate a few seeds and drank water 2 times. Id say about 4 peanuts and a dozen other tiny seeds and it feels that she had some food in there but not much. I let Piggi displaying around her cage for about 5 minutes at a distance and she ate a few seeds. Piggy made more coos they we ever heard of. Both wore grooming their feathers. They wore both very happy but unfortunally I had to stop the fun as I did not wanted any illness being spread. Now she is back in the room and her cage with the lights on in case she decides to eat more.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sometimes, they really do need other pigeons around to help them heal. I use that a lot.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Well she just ate a few seeds and drank water 2 times.


That is great news, Cristina. Is it today you go to the vet? If so, good luck.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Cythia,
Yes, is today I am going at the vet at 6. 
Blackye has not been eating since last night and now her crop is empty again. Maybe she will change her mind again.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I have been to the vet. The vet said there is nothing we can do about her wing and that is broken of an old injury and is never going to heal again for as it was and she will have to live with it like that. She looked at the scabs and she said they are healed nicely. Her foot is not broken at all. Underneath that wing where is purple she said is another old wound and a tiny scab but that healed up nicely. The vet also said that the pigeon is not that skinny and she feel nice and she does not feel bony at all( with all those fat seeds she used to eat in my garden no wander). She said that the bird is generally in good condition but she is not going to be able to fly at her best ever again. I am keeping her, she is such a sweet girl. 
Blackye has eaten a few more peanut seeds today in the presence of Piggi and dranked water.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Then it sounds like her best therapy is to be with Piggi, or at least where she can see Piggi. That really does wonders, sometimes. It's easy to underestimate just how much their will to live is affected by the social aspect of their lives (as with all of us, truth be told).

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

THat is welcome news, Cristina, it sounds as if she has already been through the wars and needs a comforatable home.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

She loves seeing Piggi and Piggi loves seeing her. It is amazing haw they both change their behaviour when they are around one another. She makes some really cute calling noises too and she sounds more like a chicken then a pigeon.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> She makes some really cute calling noises too and she sounds more like a chicken then a pigeon.


I know exactly what you mean, when we had Zigeuner and Hercule in adjacent cages Hercule would coo and Ziguener would cluck her response...they had committed to each other long before they came into direct contact.

This is obviously love, but where does it leave poor Tipsey?

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Cynhthia

I know, poor Tipsey, the husband she was promised seems to be getting another bride. This is going to turn into a soap opera. There is always the chance that Tipsey turns out to be a male. I am having her in anyway and maybe these pigeons could get along if not since Tipsey can not fly so she could just stay in the living room over night so she does not get attacked. When I will have her in well see what is going on and maybe she could get another mate to keep her company if she does not get along with the others if she is too jealous.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If Tipsey is a hen then they will probably just share Piggi. The only time I have seen a hen with two male mates is when a white hen was making the transition between her current mate and a "better prospect" while still sitting on her nest. 

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Cynthia, sharing would be great if they chosse to do so and Piggi will have his little harem. He has been very annoyed lately because his mate that is outside and keeps coming at the window to visits him... well… she has a new mate, and he even looks like Piggi, and on top of that she displays in front of Piggi her new bubby and what they are up to about. Piggi gets all worked up at such a sight.

Blackie has been eating a bit today again, mostly peanuts.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hens can be cruel. We rescued Chico, a pathetic little scrap that was missing an eye, and were very pleased when she set up a nest with our Piglet, who has a scissored beak. It looked like a match made in heaven until a very handsome young pigeon a few nest boxes away was tragically widowed. Within a couple of weeks Chico not only left Piglet for the widower, but they set up home right next door...and Chico will beat Piglet up if he happens to visit.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I just love these twists in the story. I'm so pleased your new lady is ok.

Today I let Tipsey see my new white pigeon, (must get them named), through a glass door, to keep them apart. Tipsey kept cooing for me but when she caught sight of the new comer through the glass, she looked quite nervous and frightened. Didn't coo or perform for her. In contrast the white one was really happy to see another pigeon and ran over to the door. Tipsey backed off and stood up tall, seems shy. Fascinating, I'm not getting anything done today!

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Cynthia that sound like a hell of story these pigeons live. Is all twists and turns.

Janet, I am glad Tipsey gets to have a little bit of company of her own; they do really get very interesting when they start interacting with one another. Blackye does not do much either while Piggi performs his little show, she will occasionally scratch underneath her wings but she watches him very curiously.

Today Blackye ate a few more seeds, she does not eat as much as she should at all. I am quite worried for her not having enough food after all this time, her poops look all right and many. I do feel so tempted to feed her myself but I do not want to encourage that. Is she all right eating this little? I don’t want her to starve or her body to not be able to fight illnesses, if she has any, due to her not having enough food in her body to keep her going.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Chris,

While they were watching each other through the glass, they tended to mirror each other's actions. The white one would start preening and then Tipsey would. Then Tipsey would clean her feet and WO would do the same. Funny how Tipsey for all the wing slapping and biting she does to me, she was obviously nervous of the new bird, didn't look very male to me.  

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye is still fussy with food. She ate since this morning 7 peanuts, 5 sunflowers seeds and 5 hempseeds. Piggis company is doing her well and she pecks at the food and eats a few more seeds when he is around. Piggi is all submissive to her and coos continually for the past 2 hours, I made a little video, she will occasionally coo back at him with her lady coos. I wander what they are saying there.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4466438435043122140


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Chris, that is so sweet, Piggi looks quite a different character to the show off at the window he was before.

With all the other things going on here at the moment, I didn't get time to put Tipsey in her outside abode before my husband got in the bath as he always does on Saturday mornings!

When he came out he said 'I could have sworn I heard a pigeon cooing in there', she was still in the sauna where she sleeps at night. He does know about her now but doesn't know she comes in at night!!!!!
I just thought, I hope he doesn't open the airing cupboard or look inside the box under the bench in the bathroom!!!!  he might get a bit of a shock> 

Your John must be a lot more understanding than mine.

Pigeon's are taking over.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

LOL, Janet, I didn't know you were smuggling them into the house!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Cynthia, 

I work on the 'NEED TO KNOW' basis.  

If there's a risk the answer will be 'no', I don't ask the question.  

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye has still been picky with her food, she eats very little and she seems skinny. I gave her some poly-aid yesterday and later on she ate her usually amount of seeds.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Have you weighed her?

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Poor Blackye is now 260 grams, I have hand feed her seeds lat night as she only at a few seeds today and I will probably hand feed her again tonight, she just won’t eat enough all by herself.
Since a couple of days ago she has been sneezing a few times and she had a feather stuck near her nose so I took it out. I looked again today and in one of her nostrils was more of that feather left a bit so I took it all out. She has still been sneezing after I took the last feather bit out. I think her nostril is a bit wet.
I used to bring her in for a few hours everyday and keep her and Piggi in separate cages with half a meter space in between while they cooed at one another but I am not doing that as the sneezing might spread the germs. Is it possible for illness to spread trough sneezing in pigeons?
Is going to be heartbreaking not being able to see one another and do coos now but better safe them sorry. She will only eat a few seeds while he is around.

Otherwise she appears very well and does her little girly coos.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The sneezing could be caused by the feathers but unfortunately if she has a respiratory infection of some sort then it can spread on the aerosol of sneezes.

260 is too thin for an adult. John and I relax after they have passed the 300 gms mark.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry you have a little worry with Blackye and Piggi, but it's better safe than sorry. I find it a bit difficult having the three pigeons all in different locations in the house and trying to make sure I don't move from one to the other without washing my hands etc. When I've spent some time with Diva, the possible PMV, I even change my clothes, I'm so scared of passing on anything to Tipsey and Angel.

Angel was so pleased when she saw Tipsey through the glass door and I can see she would really love to have some company, but I know after having Tipsey for so long now that she is as well as she can be and I'd never forgive myself if she went ill. I hope it's nothing serious with Blackye.

Diva, the PMV is just over 300gms, and I worry she isn't eating enough and have started feeding her extra seeds as she only seems able to pick up peanuts, that's what's probably keeping her weight up!!

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Cynthia, I always used a robe when handling her and washed my hands all the time but is just unbelievable haw these illnesses can be passes trough. I did not keep them in the same room for too long. She does feel thin so I just hand feed her again this evening.

Janet, today I saw an pigeon in the market with a droopy wing but would not be let himself being caught up, I would of end up with 3 pigeons too. I will keep my fingers crossed for Diva. 
Today when I was watching a flock of about 40 pigeons sitting around and grooming in the morning while I was chatting on the mobile phone with my husband and suddenly I lost the mobile phone connection and within seconds the flock of pigeons flew away all tougher at once fast. These pigeons sure know more then we think they do.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Oh and the scab from the back of her head/ neck fell off and is look slightly pinkish and no infection present.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye outsmarted me yesterday while I wanted to change her water and manage to run pass by me and had a good fly around the room. Her flaying is quite good, she is just not as quick as a healthy pigeon and I don’t think she would be fast enough to run from a cat,, a pigeon has to be very quick. Her broken bone that was sticking out is not pointing out as much as it was. I looked closer at her and I notice a scab on her crop that fell off with nothing to worry, I just did not noticed it before, just a superficial wound must of have been. Now she is still not eating. I gave her nothing yesterday and she did not touched food this morning either so Is hand feeding again for her later on. I know she must not be happy at all being in that cage trapped like and without Piggi at sight and I try to make it as easy as I could for her and I leave her alone without bothering her, I just poke my head in the room for time to time to see if she if she is alright. She has light into her room and her cage is half covered, would she be better if I cover the windows so it all dark or semi dark? 
I did not hear her sneeze again though she might not bee sneezing often enough for me to hear her.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Cristina, I really don't like that bone sticking out, please keep an eye open for infection.

One of my birds had a bone poking out and as it was dead bone the vet trimmed it back without anaesthetic so that the flesh around it could heal properly.

I have copied these excerpts from various old threads by Tara (BaconBit). This still makes me cry , but I think it explains my fears better than I could explain them.



> 3 January 2002
> I found a very hurt pigeon last friday and have taken him , I think it is a him; in. I took him to the vet on Monday and found out that in addition to having an old wing injury which has made him not able to fly; he also had a new fracture to his wing!! I have no idea how he could have survived outside very long not being able to fly and all but somehow he did. He is also VERY friendly!!!
> 
> 3 February 2002
> ...


It is not clear whether it was anaesthesia or infection that killed Bacon, or a combination of infection and surgery...but being alert to infection and having antibiotics available can help.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What a tragic story, Cynthia. 
My Fanny had a bone sticking out, just half an inch. I took her to the vet to have the wing amputated, but he recommended first trimming it and see if the skin grown over. She didn't say a peep while he was trimming the bone, so I guess it didn't hurt her much. She came home with antibiotics and in a week the skin healed over the exposed bone. Two months later she was flying. She is not a great flier, but in the room she does ok. She can get wherever she wants to.

Reti


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Cynthia, that is a really tragic story and scary. I just do not have the doctors here that know something about it, they mean good but they just don’t deal with birds. A bone sticking out can not be a good thing and hers defiantly pointed out of her skin. Is no infections as far I can see. I would not like something bad to happen to Blackye. Is there a way of sending Blackye to you trough some sort postal service? I will pay for everything so she can also be sent to the doctor and treated. I can not imagine haw much would all cost but I can gather up the money by selling things on ebay.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chris,

You can send healthy pigeons via Amtrak, but it is a long journey during which they can't have water or food.

Are any of these avian vets close to you?

E Barbour-Hill 
Tan-y-Coed, High Street, 
Penlon, Bangor,
Gwynedd. Tel: 01248 355674 
E Barbour-Hill

Rhianfa Vet Centre 
83 Russell Road, 
Rhyl Tel: 01745 332553 
J Hickerton

Valley Vet Group
Gabalfa Vet Surgery,
180 Merthyr Road, 
Cardiff. Tel: 02920 529444 
Mark Evans


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

The first 2 are very far away! The 3th one, the Cradiff one is rechable, I think is about an hour and a half or 2 hours drive by car depending on and roads trafic and the time to travel.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Oh and the nearest Amtrak local depot is quite far away, are they the only ones?


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I got to see when I can go to Cardiff with Blackye, I do not drive and I depend on other people taking me there.
Weird thing, the bone is not sticking out anymore at all. I don’t feel it of see anything there where it was at all.
Blackye is moving her tail up and down a bit. Should I deworm her, I have avicas and moxidectin .
I have force feed her today also.
For some odd reason Blackye smell of milk, her feathers maybe, don’t know. I washed her about a week ago with water and a bit of vinegar in it and that would not cause her to smell of milk. I am quite worry about this.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

All right, milk mystery solved. It was some gloves I touched her with that left the smell. lol


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

chriss80 said:


> All right, milk mystery solved. It was some gloves I touched her with that left the smell. lol



LOL, I was thinking hard what it could be. 
How about the bone sticking out, is it all gone?

Reti


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Reti,

The bone is completely gone now, it must of retracted back. Is all smooth now, and both wings in that area feel identical I can not see there well due to all of her feathers and she is not letting me do so either, I think she might be sensitive there now, she never reacted before when I was touching the area or the bone. I feel really tempted to just cut all the feathers in the area right now so I can see better but I do not want her to get cold or something. I have not been letting her fly around since I got her, except when she escaped me, is enough room in the cage for her to flap her wings.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, protruding broken bones don't usually retract on their own. It mighta' been something else entirely.

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,
I thought about it and perhaps a broken bone/wing was not the correct term to use. The bone was not broken in 2 or something like that. What appeared to me was that the bone was out of its cartilage and poked out trough the skin ( no skin covering it at all when it was out). More like dislocated maybe, or broken out of cartilage.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You oughta' try looking at their wing joints through the feathers sometime while they're wet with soapy water--their skin is so thin and translucent that you can see everything as though it didn't have any skin on it. When bones do actually protrude and stay that way, skin doesn't usually grow back over them (without help, that is).

Pidgey


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Pidgey, I am going to look tomorrow in the day light. I can see pretty much everything but what is in that place. Same with the other wing, is just the spot where the wing make a V point end and is a pain to see with all those feathers in my way.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What does the skin where the bone was protruding look like?

Reti


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I have just looked today at the wing, I used some water and oil to get a good look. What I discovered is just not what I expected. Is defiantly not a bone, is some sort of scab, black hard scab that is probably part of some feather that perhaps bled in the past or been pulled out. I did not wanted to pull it but I think it could have been pulled out easily, it just moves with the skin, does not seem to be deep. Some pictures bellow, I hope it can be seen well enough.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)




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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I am quite happy is not a broken bone! Otherwise she is still not eating, she is probably upset for being caged. She is not wobbling while she walks at all. No sign of sneezing. But slightly droopy wing but which now is not showing often.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

I know I'm not an expert but I just wondered if you bathed the black scab area with some warm saline water, it might start to disperse the black part if it's dried blood. With Angel, my white one, when she came her wound was surrounded with very hard black scab. Once I started to bathe it the black turned out to be dried blood and gradually it came away. It too moved with the skin as it was dried on so hard. After that was off it was more obvious what was wrong underneath. Cynthia recommended I pluck out some feathers around the wound in case any were stuck in the wound. I'm not saying pluck it out but someone might be able to advise on that later.
Angel's is healing so fast now since it has been cleaned up.
Just a thought.

Good luck

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet, do you make your own saline water? and pls do tell haw.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Yes it is just boiled water, and salt mixed in, (obviously wait for it to cool a little before using). I just had her lying on a towel on my lap and kept dabbing it with cotton wool until it started loosening it up. You'll know if it is dried blood as the cotton wool stains red.
Let me know how it goes.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet, I am going to give it a try these next few days, have not been feeling great lately. Did you receive my email today about the dates?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

Sorry, just got in and got your dates for Tipsey, will fix things up soon.

Hope you get somewhere with bathing the wing on Blackye, and do hope you feel better aswell.  

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

have been dabbing that things with a cotton bud and is attached very well to a feather. Is a hard thing, no colour come out of it. It moved slightly down and her skin there looks all right. I left it be and I think it will just fall on its own with time


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I took Blackye in another room where she had a lot of space to fly around and the stairs and she flew very well. When she flaps her wings to exercise in her cage both of her wings move very well unlike Piggi and he has a wing than sometime will appear slower. She eats a few penults a day only by herself but she can persuade to eat more by Piggi. Perhaps Blackye thinks that being on a low calories diet she won’t make a good meal for us haha. I have hand feed her plenty and she has put on a bit of weight. I can’t believe that was not a bone, it was just so convincing and it resembled a poking bone. Worst is the vet that examined her though was a bone too.
Anyway, I think it would be cruel to keep her when she can go out free again and with a free meal when she visits back. Her mate is still hanging around and waiting outside and he seems to have no mate.
I am going to keep her for a bit longer and see haw she is. I also need a nice warm day.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

That's good news about the bone (or not a bone!). It's funny what you said about the vet not spotting it, my vet didn't see the hole in Angel's chest.

I get used to Tipsey not being able to fly, then when Angel escaped from my hands today in the house, I had a real job getting her back. She wants to make up for lost flying time I think.

Does Blackye eat from your hand or do you have to put the seeds down her throat? No sign of Piggi feeding yet?

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I think Piggi will be very happy even Tipsey can not fly. He is one desperate pigeon. He keeps looking on the floor at the spot where Blackye’s cage was.
With Blackye I have to put the seeds down her throat myself. She eats when Piggi coos for her a little butshe won't eat not much. I think she will eat better once is out all byherself free.

Piggi enjoys eating grit daily and that is about all, oh and he drinks water. So he up to me to put those seeds down his troath.

I find the best way to catch Blackye is to throw some net over her or a sheet.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Tipsey went very quiet when she saw Angel in the next cage to her in the shed today. The quietest she's been for ages. Angel was really pleased when she saw Tipsey and it was a shame when Tipsey didn't respond.
I watched them from the house later with my binoculars and Tipsey was down at Angels end having a nose, but she soon went back to her box where she sits at the other end of the cage.
She's been Queen Bee here for so long, she almost looked hurt that she didn't have all the attention.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye is looking fine and surely flaying well. If tomorrow is a nice start day I might set her free, I have already bribed in some pigeons to come over in the past days with seeds and they sure are familiar faces and her own mate also. I plan to let call the pigeons down for a feed and slowly open the cage door for her so she can go out to them or fly on the house in the same place as I used to give her food too and she knows that place. I kept away from her not to tame her, I also was ill for some part of the time and I did not had the chance when I thought that she had a broken bone to try something. I do worry for her!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

A heart in the mouth day for you, I wish Blackye all the best should she decide to go free. Lucky she has you to watch out for her.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chris,

I am so glad that Blackeye has done so well, but I wouldn't let her go until the scab has disappeared naturally or until it has been removed and the flesh beneath it checked out to ensure that there is no infection and that it has healed properly. She should also be eating healthily before she goes.

If you arm yourself with some sterile saline and sterile swabs from Boots you can remove the scab and flush the wound out.

If it is anything to do with a blood feather and there is bleeding, then the blood feather will have to be plucked out with tweezers, that stops the bleeding.

Cynthia


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Cynthia, the scab has fallen/ gone for a while now it naturally fallen off and underneath it is normal looking skin and a small bold patch that just gets covered by the other feathers.

Janet, I had a change of mind today Well I came up to the conclusion that is better to let her free at the weekend. My husband will be home too so is going to be better on keeping an eye on her if she comes back soon or not, I really don’t know what to expect, she should really come back as this is her area and I would be really worried if she didn’t.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Blackye has been freed since yesterday. Lovely day today. She keeps coming back but she won’t come down for the food no matter what.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

Great news that she is still around, do you think she might come down when you aren't looking?

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Lol good question Janet!
I have put food down for her if she does come down. Later on the day she visited briefly Piggi at the window and this evening she was sitting on the near by house like waiting to come in but she was not brave enough.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

That's so cute that she visited Piggi, She must be a little torn over where she wants to be at the moment. Hopefully she'll settle on what she wants after a couple of days. Perhaps you may have a willing lodger after all.

(I hope you're ready for the 'storm' that's due tonight, I hear South Wales is likely to get a hammering.)  All the best

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet, aaaaa that storm it just had to be, when I looked at the weather prognosis was no sign of it! 
On the good side Blackye was here all nice and dry and went down for some food!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

So you still have a roof on your house then !  

That's great, I was wondering how Blackye would get on last night, good news she's eating with you, I'm so pleased she's safe.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet,

Was not that bad the storm here and Blackye got on all right, I think she just stays near by. Today she came down again for food about 3 times and ate all right. She does not seem to be going back to her mate from outside at all. She did visited Piggi at the window again today and they keep cooing at one another.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

An intriguing little web in the making, especially when Tipsey appears. Perhaps we'll eventually find out what 'she' is!  
She was pottering about again today with twigs in her mouth while Angel was in the next cage. Later she turned her back on Angel and just sat in her 'house', ( a box on it's side that makes do for a coop).
It's all very fascinating, what will I do with myself when she's gone?  

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet, I can’t wait to get Tipsey and see what’s the mystery hehe. I am going to email you soon and see haw we can get together from the Yorkshire trip.


Blackye is settling in with the garden pigeons and she comes down for the food. She appeared to me that she was flirting with another pigeon but she seems now to be hanging around with her old mate.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tipsey Needs a Friend*

Hi Chris,

Poor Tipsey is so sad today, Her new friend Angel has gone to her new home. When I went and put her in her box to take her this morning, Tipsey started cooing. When I came back this afternoon I found Tipsey sitting at the end of her cage staring into the Angel's empty cage, she didn't even look up at me when I opened the door. I felt so bad as she had obviously got used to having company. I've sat talking to her tonight as I used to, but she just coos.  

It will be good to know Tipsey has some permanent pigeon company but I am going to find it very hard to say goodbye after all this time. I know she is very lucky to be coming to you as you care so much for the birds, that's the only reason I can let her go.

Blackye is enjoying life on the outside now, you're lucky you can still see her and know that she's ok.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I would like to let everybody know that Blackye is doing well and her release and integration in the pigeon flock has been succefull and she is back to her usual pigeons business self. I hope many good years to come for Blackye. This is a video taken a few days ago. The main character in it is my new adoption Tipsey with a damage wing enjoying himself but you can see one black pigeon there modelling in front of the camera from time to time trying to steals the lights and that is Blackye.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5224771946833283941


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I really enjoyed the video. Lovely birds! Thank you so much for all that you do to help them!

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

LOL! She really is a camera hog! I am so glad that she is fully recovered and visiting you regularly.

Cynthia


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