# Help needed with injured wing



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi, sorry I haven't been around for ages. I'll post an update soon, but at the moment I've got an injured pigeon who needs urgent help.










This is Noelle. She was attacked (by kids, I think) and ended up with an exposed fracture on the lower leg, whole clumps of feathers missing and possibly a broken wing.
I staunched the bleeding, cleaned the wound, lined up the leg bone (after giving her pain medication, of course) and put a splint on it. She's on 0.5mg Baytrill twice a day.

My problem is the wing. I've never dealt with a broken wing before and would appreciate your help. She's got intense swelling of the humerus, especially at the joint with the lower arm bones. I don't even know if that means there's a fracture there (it's so swollen and sore I can't bear to poke it much) or if the swelling is due to illness. At rest, that wing hangs a little, but she can flap it almost as well as the other.










What should I do? I bought micropore tape in case the wing needs to be taped to the body, but I'm not sure how to do it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you post a pictue of the swelling? How do the poops look?
It could be salmonilla rather than a break. She could have already been down from the salmonilla which made her vunerable to the attack from the kids.
Do you have baytril?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Keep her in somewhat dim light and make sure that she doesn't flap the wing by restricting the amount of overhead space that she's got. Since you've already started the Baytril, it's probably time to watch and wait. Let's see if the swelling goes down in a few days. If the swelling is due to trauma, then you're going to see some very dark bluegreen coloring in the skin between the feathers.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sorry I missed the part about already starting her on baytril. I do need to wear my glasses when I'm reading.
You are on the right track.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you both for your advice, I was really worried that there might be something else she would need, so I'll just continue with the present course of action and watch for any changes.

The second photo is of the swollen wing. It doesn't photograph very clearly, but you can see a roundness to the outline of the wing that doesn't look right. The blue cage is lower than the wicker carrier, so I hope that does the job in terms of restricting the overhead space. I covered the wire floor with a flat surface she can walk/hop on, and made her a nest shaped like the inside of a boat's keel that she can walk in and out of to take the weight off her good leg.

The poops are almost normal, good colour, just a little on the soft side. I expected worse given the trauma.

She's starting to show signs of pecking and wingslapping (here we go again, lol) so she must be feeling better.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, I could see the swelling of that wing--it's pretty puffy. If you're fairly certain that it's bruising then you could probably bring the swelling down with DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide). That's often used as a horse liniment but it's some interesting stuff. You might try calling around to your local feed/pet stores and seeing if they have some. You'd want to put a tiny bit on a toothpick and rub it on the real skin (part the feathers with something else) over that broad area. Don't get any on you--it has some funny properties like carrying drugs and other substances through the skin with it.

Pidgey


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Some progress*

Thanks for the advice, Pidgey, I'll try to get hold of some DMSO, just in case. She's doing better, but not brilliant. She's actually stood on both legs for a few seconds, but the wing is still puffy. The skin over the swelling is missing some feathers but it isn't discoloured, so it points more towards salmonellosis of the joints, doesn't it? I took her off the antibiotics after 5 days -- was that too soon?

The poops are very good, and she eats and drinks well. Very nervous, but that's to be expected.

After I'd given her first aid I sprayed her with a proprietary insecticide, as her feathers were crawling... After that nothing else was visible, but although the missing tail feathers are growing back, I'm sure there's a growing bald patch in the middle of her back. Seems like depluming mite, and, living in the folicles, they're unlikely to be killed by the insecticide spray. I approached my vet and some chemists asking for a systemic insecticide suitable for pigeons but they don't even know what I'm talking about. The vet gave me Ripercol, but I think that's only for intestinal parasites. Any suggestions?

Meanwhile here's a pic of Piper peering down at her.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

I think, that , she should stay on antibiotic , for 8-10 days.

Nell


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Ivermectin for parasites (internal and external ones ). Orally and a drop of it behind the neck, just like cats. Oral dosage depends on the weight, if she is between 250 - 300 g that would be 0.06 cc safely.

Nell


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Teresa, get the DMSO , like Pigey was advising so you can apply it with good antibiotic on the swollen part of the wing- very importand. If you can get bacitracin-neomycin-polymyxin as ointment, that would e the one I would go with.
Nell


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Many thanks, Corvid. I'll restart her on the antibiotics and go back to the chemist's with the names you provided.

This is her this morning -- standing for longer periods now.









PS. Her seeds look strange, but that's because I put a little cod liver oil on them, as she's not been in the sun for a while.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Injury or Salmonellosis?*

Managed to take photos of the most swolen spot on her wing, by "sticking" the surrounding feathers with the antibiotic ointment.

General view:









Upper surface of wing:









Same, in close-up:









Corresponding lump on the underside of the wing:









There seems to be a discolouration now, that wasn't visible before.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That looks very much like a paratyphoid (salmonellosis) boil to me, but I suppose it could be the result of an injury. If it is paratyphoid, the Baytril should eventually get it.

Here's a blurry photo of what was definitely a paratyphoid boil on a bird I had: http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid/target1.html

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Concur. If Baytril doesn't get it within three weeks then consider moving to Clindamycin (requires your vet) or a Tetracycline.

That's at the real elbow, by the way--the union of the distal humerus (bottom end of the upper arm) and the proximal radius/ulna pairing (top end of forearm). Hard to tell for sure but it looks like the bulk of the swelling is more on the distal humerus, not that it matters for treatment purposes.

Pidgey


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Many thanks!*

I'll keep her on the Baytril and keep my fingers crossed she will improve soon. Poor little thing, she must be in such discomfort!


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Teresa

I have been treating a very seriously injured wood pigeon (car accident) using homoeopathic remedies and pro-biotics. 
I noticed you follow the standard approach but I really believe even if you wish to continue with the various antibiotics that homoeopathy can help with the healing process and speed up the results.
I did not use any antibiotics and had no complications or infections with March, my woodpigeon.
I would recommend Arnica 200c at the beginning (once or twice a day), reducing to 30c after one week depending on the results.
Hypericum 200c or 30c (I used 1M for March at the beginning due to the severe injuries) will deal with any pain and help to restore any nerve damage. Ruta Grav. 30c can help with ligaments, if you think they have been affected.

If you have a look at March's thread (Injured Wood pigeon-Please Help!) you will find some more information on these remedies, general use, other suppliments, etc.

From my recent experience with the use of systemic enzymes (Vitalzym), I wish I had put March on them from the first day as his progress and recovery would have been so much faster!!! They are safe for animals, have no side effects or toxicity and are necessary for the healing and repair work of our bodies. The powder of one capsule is enough for a pigeon but start from 1/3 to 1/2 of a capsule and increase in a few days to 1, watching his reaction. Make sure your pigeon drinks lots of water. 

Let me know if you need any more details or information.

I wish you all the best and a good recovery.

Love & Light

Maria


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Update*

The Baytril didn't stop the swelling, though, in conjunction with the bacitracin/neomycin ointment, it promoted a complete recovery of the broken leg. I eventually managed to get hold of Clindamycin, which she's started now. HOW LONG SHOULD SHE BE ON CLINDAMYCIN? DOES 1.5 mg TWICE A DAY FOR 10 DAYS SEEM RIGHT?

Her general condition is excellent, she's bright-eyed, aggressive and impatient to fly. Oh, and by the way -- it appears that she is a he, judging by the deep-voiced calls and puffing of the chest!


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

taralotti said:


> Hi Teresa
> 
> I have been treating a very seriously injured wood pigeon (car accident) using homoeopathic remedies and pro-biotics.
> I noticed you follow the standard approach but I really believe even if you wish to continue with the various antibiotics that homoeopathy can help with the healing process and speed up the results.
> ...


Thank you for your message, Maria. I am definitely very interested to learn about homoeopathic remedies for pigeons (and humans), but for now I feel quite insecure about using them because of my ignorance. I'm copying your message and the info on the 'injured wood pigeon' thread into my 'pigeon treatment' folder and I'm going to try to get some of the remedies you mention. I was especially interested in the use of systemic enzymes for faster recovery times.
Many thanks.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I would also recommend using garlic and/or Reishi capsule with a drop of Neem oil and dispensing it down the back of the throat, it also works very well for infections and more.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you for the advice, Treesa, I'll see what I can get hold of -- garlic capsules are common enough, but Neem oil is near impossible to get, and Reishi is unknown to me.
My local chemist's are really nice and not averse to phoning all their suppliers to try to get something for my protegees. That was how I managed to (eventually) get hold of the Clindamycin.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Clindamycin - how many days?*

Noel (previously known as Noelle,lol) is on day 4 on Clindamycin now, and the Paratyphoid lump on the elbow is still almost as big as it was at the beginning, though not as angry-looking. How long should the course be?

Before that, he was on Baytril 4 days + 7 days. I think I messed up badly when I stopped the Baytril after 4 days -- I restarted after Corvid's warning, but there was a 2-day interval.
What the Baytril did manage, however, was to promote the complete healing of the badly-broken right leg. Yesterday, during his daily parole (I can't keep him caged up all day, even for his own good, as he gets too restless) I spotted him resting on his once 'bad' leg, and couldn't resist taking a photo to show you. But as you can see, his left wing is still quite swollen. What am I doing wrong?


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

I have a bird who was diagnosed as having osteomyeltis but who I suspected may have had paratyphoid. I had him on clindamycin for 21 days. There was no apparent decrease in swelling at the end of the course (he had a large boil on one wing that apparently kept him from flying), BUT after about 9 months, he spontaneously started flying well enough to perch up high. I think Pidgey's posted stuff about joints remodeling themselves enough for this to happen.

Jennifer


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

jenfer said:


> I have a bird who was diagnosed as having osteomyeltis but who I suspected may have had paratyphoid. I had him on clindamycin for 21 days. There was no apparent decrease in swelling at the end of the course (he had a large boil on one wing that apparently kept him from flying), BUT after about 9 months, he spontaneously started flying well enough to perch up high. I think Pidgey's posted stuff about joints remodeling themselves enough for this to happen.
> 
> Jennifer


Thank you, Jennifer, and I'm delighted your bird was able to fly again. Did he still have the boil when he started flying, or had it disappeared by then?
I hope Noel will recover, as he's not happy in captivity. I let him out for at least a couple of hours every day, and he's usually quite content to perch on the landing pad, but he can fly 4 or 5 metres (across the room) quite easily.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Teresa, do you have any other birds? I've observed that even the really feral ones can be relatively content as long as they've got company of their own species.

I just felt Smokey's wing. The joint isn't "squishy" like it was initially; just kind of "boney" now. So whatever that inflammation was has receded over time. I guess that's how he came to start flying again. The joint appeared grossly swollen initially just like your Noel. It still appears larger than the other side looking at him from the front now, albeit slightly less so than before.

Jennifer


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

jenfer said:


> Teresa, do you have any other birds? I've observed that even the really feral ones can be relatively content as long as they've got company of their own species.


I've got another male pigeon, Piper, who can't fly enough to be released, 3 cats and a dog -- in a second-floor flat! I mean to get a hen to keep Piper company (he's perfectly happy indoors and his cage is very big). But two pairs would be difficult. Also, Noel is completely wild, distrustful of people and really not happy being cooped up. When he's in his cage I often have to put a cloth over the cage to stop him 'attacking' the bars. I only release them both when I'm in the room with them and the cats are all locked out, but they're pretty good, perching in different places and never pecking each other.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Teresa said:


> I eventually managed to get hold of Clindamycin, which she's started now. HOW LONG SHOULD SHE BE ON CLINDAMYCIN? DOES 1.5 mg TWICE A DAY FOR 10 DAYS SEEM RIGHT?


The IVIS site shows the clindamycin dose for pigeons as 100 mg per kg of weight 4 times daily. I just looked at the Clindamycin (ClindaCure is the brand name) that I have, and it contains 25 mg per ml/cc. If the strength you have is also 25 mg per ml/cc then 1.5 ml per dose is about right though it appears that you should be giving this amount 4 times a day instead of two.

Terry


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you so much, Terry, I'll change his dosage to 4 times a day straightaway.
I hope he recovers well, as he keeps calling and looking wistfully out the window. He must have a partner out there, but I can't release him until I know that he's going to be ok out there.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

The formulary in the Ritchie/Harrison/Harrison book (http://www.avianmedicine.net/ampa/18.pdf) gives the clindamycin dosage at 100 mg/kg SID (once a day). 

I can't remember how often I gave it to my bird, but it definitely was not four times daily. Teresa, if you're interested, I can email the vet and ask him if his formulary has something different.

Jennifer


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks, Jennifer .. let's do be sure to get this dosage correct. Here's a copy of what is on the Ivis.org site ..

_Clindamycin HCl Pigeon 100 PO QD A [1473] - 
Clindamycin HCl Pigeon 100 PO QD E [111] _

This is a link to the actual web page, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a member there to view it .. you can join for free but might have to "fudge" a little bit on how you qualify to join.

http://www.ivis.org/advances/harrison/chap9b/chapter.asp?la=1#C

The dosage I posted is supposedly from the same formularly (Harrison), so we really do need to get this right.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sorry, missed this...

Yep. 100 milligrams per kilogram of bird, once daily in two different formularies. I've only been given the 25 milligrams per milliliter stuff in a 20 milliliter bottle. I was always advised just to give it to them at the prescribed daily dosage until the bottle was done. In one case where a knee joint (the true knee, invisible up in the body feathers) didn't respond to three weeks of Baytril, I started the bird on the Clindamycin, finished that and then started the bird on Doxycycline for a few days. An unexpected and unavoidable business trip came up so I took the bird in for a longer-lasting Penicillin injectible shot seeing as how it was the only thing the vet had that would do that while I was going to be away. When I got back, he wasn't limping anymore. I'll never know which one did the trick, but that's how I'm playing it anymore on cases like that.

Pidgey


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Good news*

Sorry I haven't posted for a few days, but I have good news.

15 mg twice a day has been working well. There is still a little swelling, but it is a big improvement, and Noel is flying quite well indoors now (which means he can poop anywhere he likes, of course! ) From the floor, he can easily fly to the highest point in the room, at quite a steep angle of ascent.

The other surprise is that he and Piper have become very close. Starting out meeting on neutral ground, they now prefer to be together. Noel has totally disregarded the big cage I got him and the small one he convalesced in, and is either to be found with Piper in 'Piper's Palace' or both of them perch on top of the bookcase opposite. They keep grooming each other and being all lovey-dovey. I put some nesting materials in the nesting box at the 'Palace' and they've been investigating them.
At the moment, I think they're picking curtains...


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Teresa said:


> They keep grooming each other and being all lovey-dovey. I put some nesting materials in the nesting box at the 'Palace' and they've been investigating them.
> At the moment, I think they're picking curtains...


Teresa,

I just loved that comment about the curtains, I've been sitting here giggling about it. 
I've just got this scenario starting in my potting shed hospital wing.
Out of seven pigeons I thought must be all male, (or all female), as there had never been any hanky panky, three are now, most definitely female. Trouble is two want the same male. Don't know about choosing curtains, they're spitting feathers with jealousy ! 

Great news about Noel's flying by the way !

Janet


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

amyable said:


> Teresa,
> 
> I just loved that comment about the curtains, I've been sitting here giggling about it.
> I've just got this scenario starting in my potting shed hospital wing.
> ...


Oh dear, you've got the makings of a soap-opera there, with the feathered love triangle! Hope one of the other pigeons is a qualified counsellor!


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