# Spread Grizzle????



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Would anyone have pictures of these colours? Ash red spread grizzle and black spread grizzle. Can't get my head around a bird with the spread factor being grizzled. I've been messing around with the calculator to work out how I will pair up my birds and these colours come up with a spread/ grizzle pairings.

Thanks,

John


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Hey John, these high fliers are blue spread grizzle or black mottles depending on what you call them. They are one dose grizzles, one dose spread.

the first one has moulted out now and looks a lot nicer, I will get some better pics of them all tomorrow, There is around 4 and they vary a bbit between them.

I imagine ash red spread grizzles would look similar to ash red bar grizzles but with less red around the neck and head areas, So a more ashy colour than red grizzles. Someone may have some they can share.


----------



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks Evan,

Would the hen in the picture be a blue spread grizzle? Do they carry the spread factor like a black or spread ash?

John


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

johnbt said:


> Thanks Evan,
> 
> Would the hen in the picture be a blue spread grizzle? Do they carry the spread factor like a black or spread ash?
> 
> John


Sorry blue spread grizzle and black spread grizzle are the same, I refer to the colour blue as blue but blue or black are just as correct. 

The bird in the pic looks like a blue/black spread grizzle to me but it is hard to be sure without seeing the tail.I have not ever seen the mottle effect that is on your bird in a T pattern grizzle before but it seems common in spread grizzles so based on that I would say you can probably say its spread.

I don't think ash red spread grizzles would mottle, I think they would just grizzle out like a normal ash red but may be wrong.

Mottling is more the effect that tiger grizzle can give where one feather is white then one coloured and so on. So this bird could possibly be tiger grizzle but once again my experience with tiger grizzle is limited so may need some more opinions.


----------



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Evan,

I saw some nice coloured Showpen Homers at our show on Sunday. There was one bird that I really liked and would like to breed some rollers the same. They were breed from a black mottle and a spread ash. They were mostly white and the darker feathers were the light spread ash, lavender colour on the shields and backs. I’m trying to get a picture from someone who was at the show. I think they were bred from a black mottle cock /spread ash hen. I have a spread ash cock but no mottle hen unless this hen is one. Not sure if it matters if the cock or hen is the black mottle. I have spread ash hens if it does but I would need a black mottle cock?????

John


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

johnbt said:


> Thanks Evan,
> 
> Would the hen in the picture be a blue spread grizzle? Do they carry the spread factor like a black or spread ash?
> 
> John


To know whether a bird is grizzle, you only have to look tail or flight feathers, or at a plucked shield feather in this case, since the bird is white-flighted and white-tailed. If the base of the feathers of a grizzle are white, and they darken to the tips. This is true even for spread grizzles.

I would guess in this case the blue spread (or black) bird in the picture is not grizzle, but instead is mottled (could be tiger grizzle, which is NOT grizzle, or it could be a different black mottle gene) and pied.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Here are some of mine. Some are mottles.





































http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n558/CorbinG/9a4ef4a2.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n558/CorbinG/be88ad77.jpg

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n558/CorbinG/3c9451aa.jpg


----------



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=2195

Logan, Evan, 

Thanks for the pictures. I have added some more of my bird. Mostly the feathers don't look grizzle as you describe, however the first coloured flights do.

Can you suggest a suitable pairing to breed more of these birds like the hen.

She was paired with the Red Checker in the picture last year and breed Blue Checker pieds, Red Checker pieds, two Red Grizzles, and a Blue Bar pied. She must be a grizzle? The two Red grizzles are almost white. I have a quick look for some pictures. There are a couple more young but I will need to check the ring numbers.

John


----------



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Here are a selection of pictures of the young from this hen. Quite a variety. There are a couple more, blue checker pieds I think. I was using some feeders so pushed a few rounds out quite quickly. Some of these rounds were only 10 days apart.

They are all grown up now and I will breed from some for colours for the shows. 

The blue bar was a surprise, it is a great coloured bird. It is the best blue bar I bred and didn't even come from a blue bar. Most of my other blue bars are smokey. I was keen to show this bird but it ended up with a bull eye.

The mealy hen is a lovely bird and recently won the best of the breed in a young bird show.

I was flying them all but needed some of them for breeding and have locked them up now.


































This is probably getting of the track of the original question but this selection of young might help with the hen.

Thanks, John


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Unless the cockbird she was paired to is grizzle she definetly has standard grizzle in her genotype after seeing those ash red grizzle she produced. I think looking at the pics of her I can see grizzling aswell, I know what Rudolph is saying and I agree but what he describes can be very minimal and almost impossible to see on all feathers off grizzle birds that also have spread in the mix. I had a look at some of my spread grizzle serbians and some of the feathers are almost completely black,


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Your hen looks mottled and grizzled. I can see the classic grizzling in the shield. If she's always had the white on her could be pied. If it moulted in, she's tiger grizzle and classic grizzle.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Your hen looks mottled and grizzled. I can see the classic grizzling in the shield. If she's always had the white on her could be pied. If it moulted in, she's tiger grizzle and classic grizzle.


Is it possible the mottling effect is being caused by the grizzle, My black serbians get a lot of mottling and I was not aware of any mottle genes in them - There could be though but I assumed it was just grizzle and spread interacting with each other.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I can not make sense out of a lot of mine either.


----------



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I didn't breed this bird and she is a couple of years old now, she has always had the white, she probably would be pied.

Can I assume the following from the young I raised.....

Both the cock and hen are split for bar (mealy hen and blue bar)

The cock is split for blue (blue checkers)

The hen is grizzle (red grizzles)

The hen isn't spread (no spread young ones)

One of the young is a tortoise shell, this needs bronzing I think, where/ who could this be coming from?



































Thanks,

John


----------

