# Need help ,missing lower beak



## mihilow (Jul 12, 2015)

Hello i am new here ,registerd since i have a huge problem ,we have few street pigeons in our yard since we have a dog and it is a cat free safe zone ,we usualy feed them with bird food and they love it here and they don't fear humans so they eat from hand ,one day one of bigger pigeons had a lupm beneath lower beak ,was a bit puffed up and just sat the whole day ,few days latter lump was gone but so is the lower beak ,noticed that yesterday ,he tries to take food but cant he can only hit food with upper beak ,he does not fear humans and comes to us litteraly for help ,i gave him some water from a deeper cup and he managed to drink ,for food i gave him some mash type food trough syringe after i got him in hand ,please help what should i do next ,will the beak grow back?how manny times should i feed him ?And one wierd thing is his poop is water like and mint green to dark green in colour ?Please any advice from taking him to the vet would be really helpful since i am from Serbia and vets here don't specialise in birds


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for helping this needy bird.

He may have lost part of his beak due to canker, and will need treatment asap. please continue to hand feed, bird formula would provide the nutrition he needs.

The beak will not grow back and he will need to be kept in a sanctuary type setting and be hand fed. However, giving him a deep spill proof bowl of seed may help him learn to eat on his own.

Can you check and see if the breast/keel bone is sharp? If it is sharp or near sharp the bird has been starved and that may be why the poop is runny.

Here are some canker meds available, hopefully you can get access to them, http://siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html You can also use fishzole which is available in stores that sell fish and aquariums. *


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## mihilow (Jul 12, 2015)

Hello and thank you for replay i will see for the bone ,he is in the shade now ,resting a bit puffed up since he was kind of fighting the syringe but now he is good .Tell me ,do you think the beak won't grow back ?Thank God his tongue is whole and ok ,tell me what is the amount of food and how manny times a day should i give it to him ?I feed him trough classic medical syringe 6ml in size .Please since i only like pigeons and never had a needing bird any advice is more than helpful


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you so much for helping the bird! He knows he needs your help and he us a very lucky bird to have found you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi, 
Since it is an adult bird, it can be fed with defrosted frozen peas /corns and that would be easy to give in mouth . Have you tried that? If not I am sending you the process in next post. 
If it seems unwell and puffed up and poop too is runny green and lost his beak, this is very stressed bird and showing signs of canker too. You should surely treat him for that as soon as possible. Although runny green poop may be because of he is under fed still it should be treated for canker for other signs. 
If you can get Metronidazole (may be you have that under brand name Flagyl) from any drug supply store for humans, do buy soon and write back to know on dosing. 
Hope the bird does well in your care. Thanks for helping this needy.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you need to feed peas/corns to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed. Start with about 30 defrosted and warmed peas. Warm, not hot. Do that maybe 3 times a day, but let the crop empty between times.
Remember frozen defrosted peas/corns should be thawed under hot water to make them warm/normal from in and outside both. Never give hot/cold stuff to any bird. 

These video links will help you further to understand the process on how to do it:

https://youtu.be/FkhpJMCzbFQ

https://youtu.be/9ZqI8idx-SQ

Hope it helps.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

From the description of his poop, he is in advanced salmonella infestation and needs urgently an antibiotic injection, Lincospectin 0.1 ml / day for two or three days or injectable Enrofloxacin (don't know the dosage). It may be already too late or you have less than 24 hours or much less to act in order to save his life, as the disease advances fastly toward sepsis, or sepsis may already have installed. So, if possible to find an 24 hours open vet clinic, and you can afford to pay go right now. Ofcourse services during night are higher priced but some vets are good-hearted people and may make a discount or even do it for free if is a communitary, not pet animal.

If you manage to make the injection, you may have stabilised him or, if sepsis installed, he may die in few hours. 

Anyway, you should put him in a warm place, ideally on an electric pad at the lowest position or near a heating source (but not very hot), in a cardboard box or other thing keeping him away of air drafts. He is starving and needs to be feed some liquid or soft food, nothing solid, not even defrosted peas as the bowel is perforated by infection and can't assimilate solid food which will remain in crop and cause crop blockage, which alone will cause death. But that only after 1-2 hours of being warmed and after watering him.

Feeding liquid food is a complicated technique as is not you just pour the food in bird's mouth. Birds have the respiratory vent on the upper side of the tongue and any drop of water of food entering here will either kill the bird or make him suffer for hours. For that reason, food or water must be put directly into the deeper (lower) part of the crop, using a tube attached to a syringe. The tube must be around 20 cm long and must not have sharp edges at the end entering the mouth / throat. Such tubes can be bought from some medical equipment shops, you have to ask for an aspiration catheter diameter CH10 (around 3 mm). Introducing the tube down the throat is the hardest part, as in many cases, especially at dehydrated & emaciated birds, the tube doesn't enter easily or doesn't enter at at all, the walls of the esophagus being dried. You have to lube the entering end of the tube with a lot of water (I found olive oil or other kind of recommended lubricants to rather cause complications) and try to let it slide inside the throat, *never pushing or forcing*. 

Here are more details, is a guide for baby pigeons but applies to adults as well:
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/howtofeed.htm


If too complicated or you can't find a proper tube, you may try to give some very well moistured black bread crumb, a small piece at a time and without filling the crop to much, but it may lead to complications so not much of it, few small amounts every hour or when the crop has emptied. Don't feed if the crop is not emptied, as food in different stages of digestion cause more trouble, including crop blockage. If you managed to give the injection, you won't need to make this for long, as in 24 hours the bird will either start to eat on his own or die (if the injection was given too late).

Salmonella appears when the organism is weakened by other disease, starvation or other condition. It (samonella) advances fast and kills the bird rapidly (even in less than 24 hours from first symptom) so even if there is another, older issue with the bird, salmonella must be treated first.


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## mihilow (Jul 12, 2015)

Thank you so much for help i will surely do that  After feeding he is a little better ,still really under stress he rests most of the day ,but he got mash bread with water (really first thing that i tought of ) since that can get trough syringe ,i will try with peeas and corns .He is under stress and is resting to get some energy back ,he doesnt fly ,but the poop got better as it is still watery like but now it is white mostly .It is very important that he got some food 3 times today and alot of water since it is like 35+ celsius outside. Now i got him in the cage i have and it is in my house since it is nicely cold inside (no A/C) and he is resting and not fighting the cage i hope he gets better ,he is one of the bigger pigeons that come in my yard .Thanks guys alot and if someone has any more advice please post them  We are realy fighting to save this little guy  p.s. sorry for the bad English it's not my native language


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

mihilow said:


> but the poop got better as it is still watery like but now it is white mostly .


That sounds bad actually, the fact that is white means the crop got blocked, a condition often acocompanying salmonella or antibiotic treatment. I forgot to say many antibiotic treatments, especially strong antibiotics (as are injectable ones) will always cause candida (a yeast) growth in crop, leading to crop blockage. If the droppings are white is because food stopped to pass from crop into gissard. The white part in droppings is the urates, generated by kidneys, not by bowel. In such situation, you should stop feeding and treat for candida up to the moment he starts to pass feces (the dark part of the poop) again. Treatment for crop candida includes nystatin (found at human drugstore) and acv, apple cider vinegar or unboiled vinegar which you can find only at naturist shops. Candida advances very fast and if grows too much, it won't be possible to eradicate it so you have to hurry as well.




> it is nicely cold inside (no A/C) and he is resting and not fighting the cage i hope he gets better


You should put a blanket leaving only one side of the cage open, in order to prevent drafts.


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## mihilow (Jul 12, 2015)

Poop was green due to grass eating since he was only able to do that by him self ,now the change in colour is not bad ,he has still some darkish parts of poop and it is getting better ,i still think that it was due to starvation and the fact that he shrunk like 2 numbers in size poor thing and due to dehidration since he drank water yesterday like a champ .I coverd him and he is sleeping for now ,in the morning he will be outside again and we will feed him ,give him watter and start with some diferent solid foods ,we will see the progress in the morning .


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope your bird continues to improve. Thanks for caring for him!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

mihilow said:


> Poop was green due to grass eating since he was only able to do that by him self ,now the change in colour is not bad ,he has still some darkish parts of poop and it is getting better ,i still think that it was due to starvation and the fact that he shrunk like 2 numbers in size poor thing and due to dehydration since he drank water yesterday like a champ .I coverd him and he is sleeping for now ,in the morning he will be outside again and we will feed him ,give him water and start with some diferent solid foods ,we will see the progress in the morning .


When you say outside again, you mean outside in a cage? The beak will not grow back, this bird will need hand feeding for the rest of his life. I have not read all the posts, but if the lower beak is gone, its gone. 

The good thing is u can try to give the water with electrolytes in a deepish dish and allow the bird to drink as you have been doing. Also try the same with small seeds. In a deepish dish and see if he can stick hi whole face in there and get some in himself. If you can post a video of the face and beak, may bet an idea of feeding him with seeds direct into his mouth. Need to see his anatomy first tho. 

The dark green droppings are not from eating grass, pigeons do not eat grass. Its from not eating at all or starvation droppings.


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

About 4 years ago I had a pigeon who was missing its top or bottom beak (not sure which) that it lost during a hawk attack. It panicked and flew into side of house. I thought I was going to have to put it down because I couldn't imagine it living or having a good quality of life. Up on closer inspection I realized its beak had got shoved down its throat and I was able to gently but firmly pull it up and out. If you can catch the bird check and fill its throat and see if you can feel its beak in its throat. If so you can slowly pull it up and out. My bird is still living and its beak is just fine. I posted pictures of it way back then on pigeon talk but I would not know how to find them now and repost them. If anyone knows how feel free to repost them in this posting.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

beatlemike said:


> About 4 years ago I had a pigeon who was missing its top or bottom beak (not sure which) that it lost during a hawk attack. It panicked and flew into side of house. I thought I was going to have to put it down because I couldn't imagine it living or having a good quality of life. Up on closer inspection I realized its beak had got shoved down its throat and I was able to gently but firmly pull it up and out. If you can catch the bird check and fill its throat and see if you can feel its beak in its throat. If so you can slowly pull it up and out. My bird is still living and its beak is just fine. I posted pictures of it way back then on pigeon talk but I would not know how to find them now and repost them. If anyone knows how feel free to repost them in this posting.


Here you go 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/top-beak-stuck-into-bottom-beak-50650.html?highlight=lower+beak


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

By the way that is CRAZY and cant believe that it could go down and then be able to be pulled out with no ill effects, do you have a pic of that bird today?


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

I found the picture I posted of bird with missing beak. I posted it on March 15, 2011 under my name beatlemike. I think this may be more common than realized. Missing beak isnt always missing but the bird will die if not pulled out. Thank you.http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19012&d=1300244545


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks CBL. No I dont have recent picture but she is doing fine. I have gotten many young ones from her since then also


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

beatlemike, I remember that thread. That was really something else. I'm glad to hear that she is now still doing well.

The green droppings are starvation droppings because he was unable to eat. The white you are seeing now, is just urates. How much food have you gotten into him, and what?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

CBL said:


> By the way that is CRAZY and cant believe that it could go down and then be able to be pulled out with no ill effects, do you have a pic of that bird today?


I was wondering what do you guys think of offering the `deep dish of seed' idea that Skyeking mentioned on the first page? Have you had any luck with it?

I've only once had a feral come to my yard with the whole bottom part of the beak gone. It was starving and I put a glass full of seed out for it, where it could sink his head deep into the seed. It seemed to be able to eat, but I didn't get much of a chance to test how it was working because he got a big scare from a hawk that came into the yard and he never came back.

My scissor-beak hen has a pretty bad case of it from canker. She eats on her own but has to do the same thing, with diving her head into deep dishes of seed . I think she struggles with this, she misses seeds a lot, but gets one on every 4 or so. 

She has a mate which is awesome. They can't do billing, but apart from that everything else is good with them.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

mihilow said:


> Poop was green due to grass eating since he was only able to do that by him self


If a bird eats green stuff, it doesn't pass green droppings. Green droppings are indicator of liver affected by some dsamageful factors. In the context of conditions described for your bird - starvation, wound - green droppings are most probably caused by salmonella.



> ,now the change in colour is not bad ,he has still some darkish parts of poop and it is getting better ,i still think that it was due to starvation and the fact that he shrunk like 2 numbers in size poor thing and due to dehidration since he drank water yesterday like a champ


I hope your bird will be ok but doing that injection rules out a great and very possible danger. If you don't do the injection and the bird doesn't die in, say, for days, then it was not salmonella.

Is the white part still dominant or the dark part, the feces are the main part of the poops, as it should be? Have you checked if the crop is emptying?

This is a bird that should not be released, as will not return to you and die of starvation. He may become (or not) able to eat from a deep vessel filled with grains, where he can dip his beak and make grains enter his mouth without having to pick them. Or, if he doesn't learn this eating technique, he will have to be hand feed by you or someone else 2-3 times a day.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, please lets not assume the bird has salmonella. It can't eat without the bottom beak. It was starving out there................hence the green droppings. Starvation.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope the bird starts improving with enough to eat and learns to eat by himself soon.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Andrei, please lets not assume the bird has salmonella. It can't eat without the bottom beak. It was starving out there................hence the green droppings. Starvation.


If the bird starvated for few days, it may be only starvation. If is weakened by prolonged starvation, reduced to half the weight, as T.O. says, is pretty possible to be salmonella. 

Is not an assumption, it may be not salmonella, but also very possible. Bassically, I don't remember to have met emaciated bird without salmonella.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> If the bird starvated for few days, it may be only starvation. If is weakened by prolonged starvation, reduced to half the weight, as T.O. says, is pretty possible to be salmonella.
> 
> Is not an assumption, it may be not salmonella, but also very possible. Bassically, I don't remember to have met emaciated bird without salmonella.


The 2 don't normally go hand in hand. Without tests you don't know that it is salmonella. Can't just assume.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay, beak must be gone because of canker? Or any other reasons? 
If canker, should we treat such birds for canker or wait for other symptoms to develop? What should we do to be on safer side for bird's survival?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> The 2 don't normally go hand in hand. Without tests you don't know that it is salmonella. Can't just assume.


I totally agree Jay. 

Its a safe assumption that the pigeon is starving. Its missing part of its beak, pretty obvious that one

Andreis, When I've seen emaciated birds get well from drugs that can treat Salmonella, I find it more useful to assume they responded to the treatment, than to assume they had salmonella. Those medicines treat a variety of common bacterial diseases as well as Sepsis, which is caused by any advanced infection. Sepsis is more likely to be the issue you are noticing in dying birds because of the number of advanced concurrent infections.

The few times I've been able to afford to bring batches of dying ferals to the vet, he diagnosed worms , canker and cocci. They had very similar symptoms to salmonella because of the enteritis. Even with those diseases, which you would logically treat with canker and cocci medicine initially, often they need additional treatment with anti-sepsis drugs like penicillin or Cipro (or the clindamycin type of drugs you use). Doesn't mean its salmonella.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There are just so many things that may look alike, that without tests, you cannot say definitively that it is such and such. 

Metro and Baytril, along with Nystatin because of the Baytril, has never failed, unless it is cocci or worms, which Bella has mentioned. Haven't had it be Salmonella yet. Thank God.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Bella_F said:


> I totally agree Jay. Andreis, When I've seen emaciated birds get well from drugs that can treat Salmonella, I find it more useful to assume they responded to the treatment, than to assume they had salmonella. Those medicines treat a variety of common bacterial diseases as well as Sepsis, which is caused by any advanced infection. Sepsis is more likely to be the issue you are noticing in dying birds because of the number of advanced concurrent infections.


I was speaking from my own experience, not from lectures. Each time a bird was emaciated or heavily stressed in other way and I didn't give a Lincospectin shot, it died sudden, without apparent reason (like suffocation etc), including the recent case described on other thread, when I avoided giving Linco becasue of fear of candida, and the bird died of sepsis. Even today, the dove case, I met similar situation. Bird started to show discomfort, droppings became aqueous. Gave a Linco shot and now the bird is stabilised. If this is salmonella, streptoccocus or something else, I can't say, but Linco saved countless birds at me. I said is salmo because together with e. coli is the usual bacterial pathogen affecting the bowel (do you know of any other?), other kind of bacteria affecting other parts of the body, like respiratory system etc, according to info found on specialised websites. Also, several websites, like *this one*, describe salmonella as cause of sudden death.



> The few times I've been able to afford to bring batches of dying ferals to the vet, he diagnosed worms , canker and cocci. They had very similar symptoms to salmonella because of the enteritis.


I too never have had salmonella identified by lab tests (only e. coli in some cases), which doesn't mean the tested birds were not having it in critical form. Is just just that the lab tests are only in some cases relevant. For example, a bird may be heavily infested with worms and nothing appear at test, because worms shed eggs periodically (every few days) and if you don't analyse a sample of feces from the day of shedding, there is no any sign of worms. Canker even harder, if the sample is not analysed immediate after being recolted, or even if analysed immediately, nothing will appear at test, yet, the bird may be infested with trichomonas. Same for bacteria.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> I too never have had salmonella identified by lab tests (only e. coli in some cases), which doesn't mean the tested birds were not having it in critical form. Is just just that the lab tests are only in some cases relevant.


Thats true about the difficulty identifying Salmonella even in a lab. Which means there's no way for you to claim that `every' emaciated bird you ever saw had it. What you saw was a positive response to a broad spectrum antiobiotic that also treats sepsis. That's all you know.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Thats true about the difficulty identifying Salmonella even in a lab. Which means there's no way for you to claim that `every' emaciated bird you ever saw had it. What you saw was a positive response to a broad spectrum antiobiotic that also treats sepsis. That's all you know.



EXACTLY....................


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Bella_F said:


> Thats true about the difficulty identifying Salmonella even in a lab. Which means there's no way for you to claim that `every' emaciated bird you ever saw had it. What you saw was a positive response to a broad spectrum antiobiotic that also treats sepsis. That's all you know.


Yes but I was speaking ONLY about cases of bowel infection. Not about infection following wounds, respiratory infections or else. In the case of bowel infection, if the pathogen is a bacteria, then almost always is salmonella or e. coli.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

But Andrei, we are talking about this bird. The missing lower beak means the bird could not eat. He was starving! Why you just assume he has salmonella makes no sense. Starvation droppings makes sense. You have to put it all together to try and figure out what makes sense.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> But Andrei, we are talking about this bird. The missing lower beak means the bird could not eat. He was starving! Why you just assume he has salmonella makes no sense. Starvation droppings makes sense. You have to put it all together to try and figure out what makes sense.


It was not just starving but advanced starving, emaciation. In such cases, I always noticed the incipient sepsis (and also I read that this happens in such situations). And as salmonella is the most frequent bacterial disease in pigeons, I assumed this was. I also was influenced by some private conversations with an experienced member of this forum who said that even in the sepsis following wounds, salmonella is also the main actor.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, Starving is starving. And that is what would cause the droppings. So you address that first. 
This bird was starving because of having no lower beak. If a bird has a disease, then he would also be off food and starving. But with the lack of lower beak, then no reason to assume that he has a disease like salmonella and is therefore starving. Why complicate it? Take care of the obvious first. Then if there is more then that, it will show itself. No need to go crazy right away with all of the things that could be there. That is where you start medicating for one thing, then you jump to another, and another. When that is done, nothing gets better. Slow down.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> But with the lack of lower beak, then no reason to assume that he has a disease like salmonella and is therefore starving.


Yes is a very BIG reason to think it has salmonella following prolonged starving. Doesn't matter the cause of the starving, but the stress that starving induces.




> Why complicate it? Take care of the obvious first.


Because sepsis is the immediate danger for an emaciated bird. I didn't say not to feed it. Giving a shot takes few seconds, feeding is not much delayed.




> Then if there is more then that, it will show itself.


By death. Sudden death is sudden death for that very reason: there are no preceding signs. This is the reason of my intervention and insistence on this point. You just can't wait for symptoms in the case of sepsis. You have to prevent it when a bird is heavily stressed, because very probably the sepsis will hit.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> Yes is a very BIG reason to think it has salmonella following prolonged starving. Doesn't matter the cause of the starving, but the stress that starving induces.
> 
> For all the rescues that are starving out there, rehydrating and getting food back into the bird will usually take care of it. That and addressing what brought the bird down to begin with, an illness if it be that, or an injury. If a bird is starving because it is lost from a loft situation and doesn't know how to find food, or has no beak and therefore can't eat, then it will be fine if organs are not yet shutting down from the starvation. Doesn't normally come down with salmonella and sepsis because of it. Treating for canker would be a good idea, and would be common because of the stress.
> 
> ...


I was talking about waiting for symptoms of salmonella, not sepsis. If anything is probable to hit, it would be canker.

...................................................................................


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't agree with the salmonella diagnosis either; its not possible to diagnose bacteria type over the internet. Though I do agree that treating with a good antibiotic combo (metro with a broad spectrum antibiotic) might help if the bird is very far gone. Mainly it needs to be eating.

Some antibiotics like baytril are pretty hard to get in Australia; I used to successfully treat emaciated birds with canker meds and sulfa antibiotics, which were the only antibiotics i could obtain here for a couple of years. The sulfa's are pretty useless for treating salmonella and can't treat Sepsis, but have some action against ecoli and coccidia. This treatment would have failed consistently if septic shock and salmonella afflicted every emaciated pigeon as Andrie suggests.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Because I see you missinterpreting my words, perhaps because I am not very clear either, let me make a summary of what I wanted to say and with that I will no more refer to this.

Birds in advanced immunodepressed state, emaciated, dehydrated, exhausted or sick with another disease, will be invaded by the then latent bacteria in their organism (or aquirred from outside?) and become even sicker rapidly and dying in matter of days. 

Some of you may have met cases of emaciated birds that recovered without the need of injectable antibiotic. I haven't. Someone reading these lines, if will find an emaciated or very stressed / immunodepressed bird, may take into consideration what I said here, maybe only after losing some birds because of not acting in time.

Most of the cases I met were of babies or young adults of abnormally small size, sign that salmonella affected them from birth but also adult birds or babies of normal size, initially sick with other diseases.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> Birds in advanced immunodepressed state, emaciated, dehydrated, exhausted or sick with another disease, will be invaded by the then latent bacteria in their organism (or aquirred from outside?) and become even sicker rapidly and dying in matter of days.


I'm not sure how you got to this based on the pigeon discussed in this thread. The pigeon was `a bit fluffed' `hungry' with starvation poops. He was fed well an the droppings improved. There's no evidence of advanced immunodepression and risk of the bird rapidly dying within matter of days from advanced diseases.

I'm concerned you're going to frighten and over complicate things for people who are not experienced with pigeons. They might give up if you continue to be so melodramatic all the time.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

How is the bird doing? Hope she is eating. Can we focus on the bird rather than disagreeing with each other here? All are here for the welfare of pigeons and that is the most important thing.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh yeah cwebster... Thanks for reminding about the bird, I forgot her for a while


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Bella_F said:


> I'm not sure how you got to this based on the pigeon discussed in this thread. The pigeon was `a bit fluffed' `hungry' with starvation poops. He was fed well an the droppings improved. There's no evidence of advanced immunodepression and risk of the bird rapidly dying within matter of days from advanced diseases.
> 
> I'm concerned you're going to frighten and over complicate things for people who are not experienced with pigeons. They might give up if you continue to be so melodramatic all the time.


Thank you,Bella_F, sums it up nicely.

Andrei, I have asked you before to stick to the point. Someone who posts for advice about a bird with missing lower beak simply does not need - and nor do the rest of us - these wild guesses and going off at tangents which just do not focus on the problem posted about. If you persist in this kind of thing, despite reasonable reminders, you will be placed 'on notice', which means all your posts will be scrutinised and a decision made as to whether they will or will not be shown on the forum. If anyone has any views on that, either keep them to yourselves or address them privately please.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> I am just messaging you, how to post your issue in new thread, because posting in ongoing thread will have chances to be missed out by many members who aren't part of it and also will be confusing.


I have asked 2 moderators to fix it also.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Sorry Jay, didn't read your post earlier, it just didn't show up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> Sorry Jay, didn't read your post earlier, it just didn't show up.


That's okay. As long as they get help. But they have posted in multiple threads, and a mod will probably have to remove those. Otherwise it'll be very confusing


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, saw it just now.


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