# feral bird



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

ok here gose. I know some of you wer intrested in how this bird would turn out seeing as how it is pure feral. literaly. so this picture is before the molt









and this picture is after the molt, I spread the wings so you can see the bronzing better than before.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Bronze bars and checks are not as unusual as you may think in feral flocks. I've caught thousands of birds out of barns and silos in Ia. over the years and this coloration is quite common in some areas. 
Interestingly, these same flocks often have rec. reds among them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well I guess he is not feral anylonger!.... pretty color bird.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

yeah I guess, I'll still call it feral, it's not even close to tame at all


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

tmaas said:


> Bronze bars and checks are not as unusual as you may think in feral flocks. I've caught thousands of birds out of barns and silos in Ia. over the years and this coloration is quite common in some areas.
> Interestingly, these same flocks often have rec. reds among them.


realy? I'v noticed a few reces reds and compleatly bronze birds showing up here in MN flocks as well, there are also getting to be a lot of grizzles, and/or white splashed birds as well. this is one of the few bronze barred ferals I have seen here. although it's hard to tell without catching them. I had 26 in my loft at one time all breed off the same pair. they also would come with white flights and a little grizzle here and there. never got any reds though.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

tmaas said:


> Bronze bars and checks are not as unusual as you may think in feral flocks. I've caught thousands of birds out of barns and silos in Ia. over the years and this coloration is quite common in some areas.
> Interestingly, these same flocks often have rec. reds among them.


Why would you catch thousands of ferals? Just curious.

Is that a money making thing, or a hobby thing?


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Oh no.......


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Ouch... Thats sad.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

LOL if I get my way there will be a market for them as racing homers, the ones I have now beat my homers by 15 to 20 minutes over 100 miles. I think mabe they can win. it's somthing I'm going to try anyhow. I'm still experimenting with it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

tmaas said:


> There is a market for them as live trap shoot at gun clubs and as bio tech. research material.



You catch ferals for that?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Lets not go there aye, Tmass, - I warn you , say nothing lol.


So are you saying that is fine with you if he catches ferals to use in these ways? And he should just not say so?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

tmaas said:


> Do you have a better plan for managing the overpopulation of them?


This is a pigeon advocacy forum, OK? That means this forum is pro-pigeon life.

I suggest you read the rules and take those kind of views elsewhere.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

tmaas;717044[B said:


> ]Do you have a better plan for managing the overpopulation of them?[/B]


I have a plan for managing humans that exploit pigeons ... it's not as pleasant as your plan for managing pigeons.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

John_D said:


> This is a pigeon advocacy forum, OK? That means this forum is pro-pigeon life.
> 
> I suggest you read the rules and take those kind of views elsewhere.


Sorry, I didn't intend to go here, or offend anyone, was just answering questions and reaching for logical answers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks John, appreciate it. 
Sure is interesting getting to learn what everyone on here is about.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Maybe that should have read - Thanks John, appreciate it.
> Sure is interesting *Assuming* what everyone on here is about.


Wasn't talking about you, (guess you ASSUME too) so don't tell me what it should have read. I was asking him a question. You should have let him answer for himself.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

wow guys cut it out it's christmas eve for sakes. I never meant to start a fight. and no I didn't even catch these birds. in previouse posts I told everyone I got them when they wer young squabs. the original pirds wer out of a nest in the grainalevator at a farm. when we went to fill the corn crib they fell out the end. I'v had them ever sence. the other two wer loose in a hay loft but couldn't fly with about 50 cats down stairs waiting for them. a few wer in the silo when I went to setup the unloader. in any of the cases they would of died if I wouldn't have taken them home. so now there pets. but if everything I post is going to start a fight and get me banned I won't stay here much longer. some how everything turns into a argument.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Wasn't talking about you, (guess you ASSUME too) so don't tell me what it should have read. I was asking him a question. You should have let him answer for himself.


I have said my peice and defended myself from claims that I am pro pigeon shooting. Thats all I have to say.

Nice birds, I agree with tmass that the connection between these bronze bars and rec red is something worth looking into. Conditionfreak asked him a question which he answered and now the threads gone off track. I am deleting all other posts of mine as they are not really needed.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

wait wait wait, recesive red is dominant right? I read that on another poste. if this is true than how can it not show when I have breed say 50 young ferals? "Color, and it's Role in 2013 Breeding Plan" is the thread in fact.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

recessive red is recessive.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

you would show up if you breed that many right?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Not if only one of the pair has the gene as it is recessive. So both parents must carry it and then only 1:4 will be that colour.

The other thread states _Red_ is dominant which is correct, Ash red is dominant and these days you can breed an ash red T pattern that looks similar to a recessive red racing homer if not better in colour using modifiers such as dirty, kite etc.

The two genes are non related, recessive red is recessive, Ash red is the most dominant of the three base colour genes. Or in correct terms you would state it is Dominant to wild type ( blue/black ) and brown is recessive to wild type (blue/black). Blue/black in correct terms in neither recessive to ash red or dominant to brown as it is just wild type, The non-mutant form of the gene at that particular locus.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I like your birds , That spread of colors on the wings and tails are beautiful.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

tjc1 said:


> I like your birds , That spread of colors on the wings and tails are beautiful.


it's just a feral, nothing special about it


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Kite bronze is generally the cause for that but it is said that kite bronze and het rec red can be mistook easily so it could be either

I love it though, Its what makes an ash red T pattern look almost recessive red. If we could find a seperate gene to turn the grey tail red then I believe we would be able to create through rigid selection self reds with kite and/or het rec red on ash red T patterns


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Still, it is a very interesting pattern. Thanks for letting us see how it turned out. Do you think the patterns will continue to change after each molt? Either darken, lighten, or stay the same?


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Kite bronze is generally the cause for that but it is said that kite bronze and het rec red can be mistook easily so it could be either
> 
> I love it though, Its what makes an ash red T pattern look almost recessive red. If we could find a seperate gene to turn the grey tail red then I believe we would be able to create through rigid selection self reds with kite and/or het rec red on ash red T patterns


huh? I didn't know all that, it looks like toy stencil bronze. but when the squabs feather out they look like the first picture. see the bronze color kinda blotched all over? theres also next to no bronze in the flights. when it molts it looses the blotchy look and gains bronze color on the flights like the secound pic. I wish I would of known what I know now. the first bird I ever hatched whas in febuary. I dubbed him "baldie" he whas a realy dark chocolate brown color. he had black blotched all over that whas bright iridecent. when the bird molted it turned almoste charcoal grey in color, mabe darker. but when he whas little he whas a verry intresting bird. I loved the bird to death. he got took off my arm by a hawk.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

almondman said:


> Still, it is a very interesting pattern. Thanks for letting us see how it turned out. Do you think the patterns will continue to change after each molt? Either darken, lighten, or stay the same?


I don't know if they will yet, the others dont seem to change at all. this bird is the first one I seen like that. it has a brighter more light bronze that's iridecent. it has a lot more of it even in the bars. the others have more black in the bars but still bronze.they also never had bronze blotches all over them. I just thaught mabe I stumbled on somthing by accident. it's intresting for sure I know that.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

by the way, merry christmas to you all. and thanks for all the help with everything


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave - This gene will not change the bird with each concessive moult but all birds change slightly when they moult into their adult plumage


Switch - It could be TS bronze but without test breeding noone can be sure really. Kite is commonly the gene that causes the bronze in the flights but ofcourse other genes or gene combinations can have the same effect.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Dave - This gene will not change the bird with each concessive moult but all birds change slightly when they moult into their adult plumage
> 
> 
> Switch - It could be TS bronze but without test breeding noone can be sure really. Kite is commonly the gene that causes the bronze in the flights but ofcourse other genes or gene combinations can have the same effect.


right I realy don't know the difrence, just thaught it whas a intresting bird I'ld share.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

It is interesting for sure, I only bought up the genetics as someone said they loved the spread of colour on the wings so I explained the gene generally responsible.


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