# Help! Pox?



## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Any thoughts on this piccy? Pox or scaly mites? If it's Pox do I put Betadine on the lesions, how does it help? I am giving baytril for secondary infections. There is a toe hanging off, but no lesions on feet or legs.
What happens to the lesions, do they get smaller, fall off? How long can it take?
I've only had one other bird (another dunnock like this one) a few years ago with pox. it died.

Just googled Betadine and it's been withdrawn in the UK, what can I use instead and where can I get it?
Thanks,
Alison


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That looks like pox to me, but that one growth is really HUGE. Betadine is povidone iodine and all the drugstores here carry it.

Terry


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ali,

Pox affects wood pigeons badly, so last year when one of our members found a woodie with pocx her father e-mailed Retief Ehlers (a vet with pigeon interests) for advice. These were his recommendations:

_Continue to use antibiotics, either Synulox, or Baytril.

You can use a painkiller – Metacam oral solution, 0.05ml once per day (1 small drop)

Anti-viral medication may help, eg Acyclovir (Zovirax) at 29mg per bird per os (ie by mouth) 3 x per day for 7 days.

Echinacea may be useful as well to stimulate the immune system (1ml / L drinking water, Use alcohol-free formulation)

Some bird may require supplement feeding if lots of lesions around beak – Can tube feed hand rearing formulation.

The lesions can be cleaned using a diluted Hibiscrub solution._

Doesn't really look like typical pox. Barbara had a woodie with pox and a tick,,,could there be tick involvement here? THis is a link to the thread with picture http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=30508&referrerid=560

Cynthia


----------



## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Thanks Cynthia  I don't think there's any tick involvement, the photos I've found online with pox do look similar to this bird and the feedback I'm getting from various sources seem to think it's most likely Pox and that there's some hope, Janine, one of the MacDiet originators, said> It looks like Pox. It's not hopeless. With the "dry" form affecting the skin, it may well not become internal. 

Please note carefully how infectious it is to other birds!

Don't give abx unless it's obvious there's an actual secondary infection. He needs good bacteria to help fight secondaries! 

Be sure to give plenty of all the vitamins, including A (but not an excess of A), and a drop a day of fish body (omega-3) oil---he needs all the help he can get! I'd also give probiotics.<





cyro51 said:


> Hi Ali,
> 
> Pox affects wood pigeons badly, so last year when one of our members found a woodie with pocx her father e-mailed Retief Ehlers (a vet with pigeon interests) for advice. These were his recommendations:
> 
> ...


----------



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> Just googled Betadine and it's been withdrawn in the UK


I wonder why that is........... I will go Yahoo...


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Maybe Tamodine for the lesions? Could also use colloidal silver.
There is also a surgical scrub containing povidone-iodine. Not certain whether that is available here.

Cynthia


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Janine's advice sounds sensible, as always. It also sounds as if internal pox is usually bad, that is what ends up killing juvenile woodies in autumn. Can you get some advice on how to treat that?

Cynthia


----------



## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Wet pox is the same as internal pox I think, and affects the internal organs, the dry pox affects only the skin and the bird has more chance of survival. I'm not sure what benefit putting Iodine or dilute Hibiscrub on the lesions has?

With regard to ticks, I see them on doves and woodies a lot when they're sickly, usually canker. You can get a tick remover from the vet, a little tool which you put at the base of the tick's body and twist as you pull the tick up, so that the mouth parts are removed too. I've never had a pigeon in with pox (shouldn't say that should I).

I will ask Janine about internal pox, although I don't imagine there's much you can do other than what you do for dry pox.



cyro51 said:


> Janine's advice sounds sensible, as always. It also sounds as if internal pox is usually bad, that is what ends up killing juvenile woodies in autumn. Can you get some advice on how to treat that?
> 
> Cynthia


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

that is a huge lesion, i wonder if her eye is going to survive the virus. i have a poxy cardinal right now that thankfully is at the end of the outbreak, the actual time frame can vary, from first lesion to the last lesion was about 2 weeks but waiting for them all to go away can take a month or two.
hers didn't get to the size of that birds, so i'm not sure
i treated once a day with betadine (helps dry them up) do not get it in her eyes though. once the scabs looked almost ready to come off i took them off with a q-tip and betadine. chlorhexidine will work also.
during the outbreak i also gave baytril for the entire time, she's doing well and will soon be ready for release.
do be very careful if you have any other birds, it's extremely contagious, make sure you bleach down any cages well and don't use for at least 72 hours. and keep her in an entirely different room from the any other birds. use gloves and be sure not to contaminate your clothing.


----------



## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

AliBlack - some Avipoxvirus strains have oncogenic properties. Passerines (song birds) , that survive infections are prone to tumor formation.

Those rapidly growing tumors become necrotic due to the rapid outgrowth of the blood supply. When possible surgical removal of them is effective therapy.
Yellow color gives me feeling of bacterial involvement there. They may be infected secondary with bacteria or fungus.



In this scenario, you may have perforation of the globe, which means no eye and later CNS symptoms. I would say its not good he is to far gone with that, but of curse we know one thing and we do it another, cause we want them to live, no matter what.
In future with normal form of dry pox use capsule of vit A+E 3 times a day for shrinking of normal dry form is working . Squeeze out on the needed areas . Takes time but you will see the difference after 5th day. 
Im so sorry for your bird. The best wishes . Nell
PS Baytril injectable would be my preference and some ointment like bacitracin-neomycin-polymyxin


----------



## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Thanks for all the advice, I'm going with Janine's advice a the moment, A,D,E, vit B complex and vit C plus Omega oil daily, plus putting A and D (cod liver oil) on the big lesion. I am concerned that even if this lesion comes off that the eye will be damaged, but on the plus side there is a tiny hole in front of the eye and I think I can see her blinking through it so maybe that is a good sign? The lesions seems to be shrinking and forming dark scabs.
She's still perky and eating.
Have to say that I'd be amazed if she survived this.
She is in the bird shed but in a tank away from the other birds.
I'll keep you posted.

Cynthia, this is what Janine wrote about dry pox>Vits A and D come together*as "cod liver oil" caps, if you don't find them in other forms.* I might try putting the oil, in small amounts, directly on the lesions.* If you don't have vit A around in some form, be sure to get some, because it's very useful for some things.
*
There are a number of things that people use on the lesions, but nothing is curative. I don't know what if any value there is in trying to "dry" them with, e.g., Betadine; some say treating the lesions just serves to spread the virus around.
*
Wet pox is the same as dry---supportive care; try to manage lesions that interfere with breathing/eating (a vet is usually required).* There's no cure.* There are vaccines, though, for prevention---but of course this isn't useful for wild patients.
*
Again, I can't emphasize enough how contagious it is to other birds.*<


----------

