# Print Grizzle???



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I was reading a little more on grizzles and saw it mentioned somewhere. Couldn't find any pictures of what it looked like either. Can someone explain or show what it is?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Becky*

What I've seen is light or dark print grizzle and it just means more white or more color. If there is some special "print" type grizzle, I'm not aware of it.
The light prints can be homozygous birds but not necessarily.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj6kXg98c5Y


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here's where I saw it at:

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/griz.html

'There is also a form known as Print Grizzle which is the result of the combination of Undergrizzle, Grizzle and Kite bronze on a blue colored bird'


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Fascinating, Becky.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yup. It sounds like it'd be interesting to see, with that bronze in there. I've seen a few birds that sound like they may fit that description, but I don't know.
It'd be nice for there to be a site where there's pictures and descriptions of all the types/forms of grizzle so you can see how each one effects a bird. Or maybe even how combinations make them look. I've seen some funky looking grizzles along with the common ones. Sometimes it's hard to find pictures of these colors  I guess this is one thing the color gallery is for, if we had the pictures


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sometimes it's hard to find pictures of these colors  I guess this is one thing the color gallery is for, if we had the pictures


Yep .. get on everybody's case, Becky! You set up the albums, members knew about them .. let's get going on getting some photos into them! 

Terry


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I was reading a little more on grizzles and saw it mentioned somewhere. Couldn't find any pictures of what it looked like either. Can someone explain or show what it is?


 Hi BECKEY, Here is what Quinn saids in his book The Pigeon Breeders Notebook on page 65 .The "tiger" grizzle of theTipplers, often called"Tippler light-print",acts nontypically in many ways.Possibly, the combination with Tippler bronze (tippler red) produces this variation, but the evidence at present suggests at least two forms of grizzle; "typical"as in Dragoon and the"light print"of the Tippler and show Rollers. Some grizzles darken with the
first molt,others lighten,especially in combination with recessive red. ..GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi Beckey, Be very careful when posting pictures, to post a wrong picture can lead only to more confusion.* GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Becky*

We've had a few discussions about grizzle and I don't know what all the different types are or even if they exist. In a conversation with Frank, he named 3 or 4 of them, including tiger, under grizzle, flash grizzle and typical grizzle.

I know that I have what I would call under grizzle in figs and I have typical grizzle in rollers. They can appear in many different looks and I don't know exactly what determines what. I know that torts with bronze show even more bronze if they have recessive red genes as well. Dexter noted this also.

I have a pair of rollers, male kite and female black mottle (grizzle) and they have thrown some interesting young. In each pair of youngsters there has been one recessive red and one black. This tells me that both parents are recessive red carriers or heterozygous for recessive red. Mom is heterozygous grizzle and half the babies are also grizzled or mottled. Some may appear as tigers as they moult out. I'm still not certain if tiger is a separate gene but it is said to be a different type of grizzle.

Whether all of these grizzles deserve to have their own name or a separate gene attributed to them, I still don't know. I always thought that grizzle was just one gene and presented itself in a variety of ways, depending on whether heterozygous or homozygous and what it was combined with. There are definately a number of varieties that one can see even with one simple grizzle gene.

If there are 3 or 4 distinct grizzle genes, I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand them yet. Frank had more or less said the same.

I have many grizzles and many with bronze and a variety of other factors and colors. I'll try to post more photos to illustrate them and we can try to sort out what they are or what people think they are.

Bill


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Light print has been found to be an actual unit factor from what I understand. It's mostly in Tipplers. Here's where you can see a light print grizzle Tippler


http://spud1.50megs.com/Pictures.htm

It's the Aussie N.P.A. site and there are lots of pics there, so you might want to search on the page for Exhibition (it's faster than looking for Tippler since there are three or four other Tipplers on the page as well.)

Bill - there are most definitely at least two or three different alleles of grizzle, no doubt about that now. What's a bit more confusing is how they all interact and what their relationship is to one another -- which is more dominant to another; whether various combinations when they're heterozygous cause what phenotypes, etc.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Frank*

I looked through and found a couple of tipplers, one looked to be stork marked black, homozygous and the lighter one, I couldn't really tell.

I've seen some that have a faded or ghost look to their markings and I don't understand that one, usually blue is what I've seen of this type.

I'd like to have a better understanding of these grizzles as I may very well have all of them in my own birds.

Bill


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