# Behavioural Questions...



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

My two babies are slowly becoming adults now. Each day they are starting to act more like their parents. The strutting and tail fanning, the crop puffing and "wild eyed" look and nuzzling and cooing together. The babies get along very well and to the observer, they act very much like a pair. Each baby will crouch down to be mounted by the other. No actual matings have ever occurred yet though. Lately, the hen baby (red bird) has been showing a huge interest in her father. She gets really excited around him, models and poses for him but he doesn't return the feelings at all. He is quite aggressive towards both her and her brother. She tries to attack her mother when ever she can as well. Is this normal for a hen bird to be so aggressive? She doesn't seem to understand that her father is not a suitable or willing mate. ODDLY, her brother is quite the opposite. He has shown no real interest in his mother or his father. He is quite scared of both of them actually. And yet, there are times he gets a bit aggressive towards his sister and chases her around. She is afraid of him!!! LOL. It's all very strange. Is it true that male pigeons mature slower than female pigeons sexually? I'm starting to wonder if the female youngster is not content with her brother as a mate. Also, should I expect some infertile eggs anytime soon from the young hen? Her mother never lays on her own but I'm just worried about her getting eggbound because it can be hazardous for a young hen. Any insight, thoughts or experiences would be appreciated on this.


Thanks,


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

My birds are totally insane. This morning I offered the babies a bath in the adjacent room in the basement (the normal place for their bath). They were bathing happily but whenever the babies are out of their room, and out of sight of their parents, the parents start getting antsy. Henny and Eggbert will fly back and forth between perches to see what's going on. Strange in itself since Eggbert Hates and wants to pull every feather out of the babies and Henny is afraid of them. So I let Henny out because she doesn't attack the babies. Henny tried to get into the bath tub with the babies but the red youngster attacked Henny and shooed her away. Then the black baby started attacking his sister in the bath and chased her out of the tub. MEANWHILE, Eggbert is going insane in the other room, literally climbing the walls to get out. I can't let Eggbert out with the babies because he chases them out of the tub. And I can't let them bathe in their room because it's not big enough and splashes everywhere so they have to have their bath in the other room. SO, I go into the room and chase Eggbert under the nest box to keep him calm. I'm standing in front of the nest box that is open on the bottom and he's trying to scoot between my legs at every moment. I hold him there for about 5 minutes then give up. By this point, the babies are out of the tub, drying off and lying in the sun in the other room. Henny is now taking her turn in the tub. I let Eggbert out and I know he's anxious to get clean but can't seem to figure out how to get in. He's been in the tub before so it's strange. He goes round and round the plastic tub, making bathing motions but won't get in. SO, I catch him, and put him in the tub, Henny gets out because she's scared. Eggbert sits in the tub for 20 seconds, doesn't bathe and then gets out and tries to go after the babies again......UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. What is going on? Why are they not learning to co-habituate? These birds are WEIRD.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

What age are these youngsters, Brad? I've read various breeding ages to be the earliest, from 4 to 6 months, and also that the males develop fully (i.e., can fertilize the egg) later. Don't know if that latter is actually true or not.

Thought also that the ages may be relevant to how the parents behave towards the kids. For instance, the parents recognize their young as 'theirs' even if they are away from the nest, towards fledgeing time (e.g., male will actively seek out youngsters to feed and 'knows' there are two he has to find). However, one might assume also that there is just a 'window' in time, and after a certain time that recognition may disappear and the juveniles are just 'other pigeons' and competing for food or space. This more so, of course, if parents have re-commenced breeding.

Of course, however much the male may strut and coo, or if he does none of those, it is really the hen who chooses the mate, so maybe young hen has set her sights on the male parent as her 'perfect pigeon'. Relationship is simply irrelevant in the pigeons' world.

Pigeons are just strange beings, I reckon 

John


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

My birds can get weird at bath-time too sometimes. I have two large, 5gal, rectangular plastic bath pans from Jedds. I have to put both of them out on bath day because usually, Janey -- one of my cock birds, will get into one of them and "claim it", not letting any of the other birds into _his_ bath pan. If any other bird tries to jump into his bath pan, he'll attack them and grab them by the scruff of the neck and flip them out of the bath... so, I've got 1 5gal bath pan for 1 bird and 1 5gal bath pan for the other 9...  

Somtimes too the one's not in the bath will be right next to the bath pans and make bathing movements, but if there are enough birds already in there bathing... then the ones on the outside can get a pretty good shower without having to actually be in the water...


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks John for the reply. The youngsters are not really that young anymore. They just turned 8 months old actually. In many ways though they still act like youngsters in the real sense. It must have something to do with being hand raised and I am starting to think Runts develop a little slower like Re Lee suggested and it would seem right. All 4 birds seem to have a love/hate relationship. It's frustrating because the two pairs have to always be separated and yet, they get anxious when they are. Mary has deduced that the red baby is a hen and seems to be courting her father whenever she can. She must be jealous of Henny and sees her as a rival or something. It's all very weird....LOL. Eggbert is the main cause of problems though because he's VERY aggressive to both his offspring and relentless at going after them. Eggbert is neurotic and I think this is the "Terrible twos" for the youngsters perhaps  

Zig, I thought about getting another pan for bathing but as long as they are in one room, the father bird will stop whatever he is doing to get to the babies to attack them. 

I wish there were books about pigeon behaviour specifically to read. I'd write one myself but I'm still in the dark too...LOL


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

What a chaotic, hormonal time! I agree that pigeon behavior is complex - they are simultaneously individuals, pairs, and flock. Eggbert may mellow out a bit over time and you might end up with enough observations to write that book! Too bad you don't have room for another pair. Adding a third pair really helped keep Walter from focusing on any one bird. Unfortunately, additional birds doesn't seem to have helped in Zig's case. We also accidently set up the flight pen so that there are places for birds to dodge around and escape. Do the youngsters run from Eggbert or try to fight him?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

Yes, I would like a 3rd pair. It's just not feasible right now. I have two basically wild runts and then two hand reared youngsters. The babies are a little confused right now and there is no way of me getting anymore young from Henny and Eggbert. I'm also out of room. It's a 16' X 12' room divided into two for each pair and that is kinda small for each (I Feel). Yes, the babies have tried to fight Eggbert before but he's just too strong for them and they won't challenge him now. The male baby was first to take on Eggbert and was quickly dispatched and I think the female baby tried once as well a long time ago. Now she just has love in her eyes for her father. Other than that, they don't seem willing to fight Eggbert anymore and always run from him now. And Eggbert is not satisfied by just chasing them away from the nest box, his mate or food dishes. He INSISTS on chasing the babies and biting them, pulling out feathers while jumping on their backs. He usually can't catch them anymore -which is good. And they are kept separate. I just let them interact sometimes to see if things ever improve and they don't.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Well I have a good update on the babies from yesterday morning. Seems like it's confirmed now - the sexes of the babies. The Red Grizzle youngster is the hen and the black with white youngster is the male. Mary was right from the very beginning!!!!! Mary predicted their sexes when they were only a couple of weeks old...damn, she's good! LOL. Well...yesterday morning the babies were in their nesting cubby acting out or preparing for future nesting duties and when I sat down beside them and the male baby got VERY aggressive. He came running out, biting my hands, running after my fingers and grabbing hold of them and shaking his head violently. It would appear he was protecting his nesting area  So I thought it would be a good time to bring Eggbert over while he was in a fighting mood. Brought Eggbert over to their side of the room and low and behold, the male youngster went "jackie chan" on Eggbert. Got in a few quick jabs to the neck and even pulled out some feathers. Eggbert turned around and retaliated but it didn't phase the male baby too much. It was me on one side and the baby on the other and Eggbert was a bit taken by surprise by the new feistiness in his chick. I guided Eggbert closer to the male again with my hand and sure enough, he starting pecking and trying to grab Eggbert by the neck. It happened a few more times, Eggbert was MAD but also quite shocked by the new found courage in his arch nemesis son. All in all it went well, it was supervised and nobody got hurt. The reason I'm so excited is this is the first time that the male baby has attempted to stand up to his father in months and was somewhat successful. I could also tell that the male youngster felt proud of himself this time and gained some much needed confidence. Maybe I will be able to call him "Rodan" after all  In another shocking twist, over this past weekend, Eggbert tried to mate with his daughter - Red baby  It totally took me off guard because at the time, they were all together in one room while I watched. Eggbert was being nasty and aggressive towards his babies again. He stopped and started circling his daughter and she squatted down and he attempted to mount her. He slipped off though and I chased him away because I don't want her to become pregnant at this time or by him. I'm quite shocked at Eggbert's (360) in behaviour for that brief moment. Goes to show you that male pigeons do have their moments of infidelity afterall. Poor Henny, just stood by and watched her mate cheat on her  . Anyways, the trials and tribulations continue. I'm learning much from these new behaviours and it's facinating to see them unfold. Just thought I'd share the news with everyone.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Excellent progress - the babies are really maturing! If Eggbert used to have full run of the place, he may consider the entire area his territory, therefore worth defending from the interlopers. You might see if you can rearrange things a bit to make it "new" turf.

Now that your have two "tame" ones, you might try to model and reward friendly behavior with them to encourage your wild pair. This really helped with Walter. I started offering treats by hand, using yogurt cups half full of treat seeds. (You may need something larger because of their size.) Initially, my hand was too scarey (for both him and me!) and the container guaranteed he would get something with each bite. Don't know if Eggbert has this problem, but Walter's crop is so large it blocks his view of the ground directly below his beak, so he misses single seeds a lot.

Do you use a covered waterer? The largest I found requires Walter to practically lay down to use it.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

Yes, Eggbert does consider the whole area his territory since he's been the only male around for so long - just him and Henny that is. Right now they are all housed in one room that is divided in half with a screened wall and that seems to work out well. The problems come when I want to let the birds out into the bigger room for more flight and exercize together. *see first posts in this thread* The babies are normally very friendly as well except when they are on their perches and/or nesting cubby. I will try your suggestion to see if I can get Eggbert and Henny a little tamer. It's strange you mention this because I've noticed that they have tamed a bit more recently As to your question about the waterers....I use heavy plastic waterers that I bought at a pet store. They are designed for the larger parrots. They hold two cups of water each and are just the right size and depth that they aren't tipped over by the birds sitting on them but they are too small for them to try to bath in. I put the waterers flush agains the wall on the floor and I find this works well.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Just checking in again with more updates on this never ending struggle to understand domestic pigeon behaviour. I either have 4 bizarre birds or one OCD young pigeon. The scenario: 4 Runt pigeons-two "wild" birds, 2 hand reared chicks from the "wild" parents. One room divided into two with a screened in wall. Room is in total 16' X 12' in size divided into two is two equal sides each 8' X 12". 3-4 perches in each side of the room. Nesting boxes on each side. Separate food and waterers, equal amounts of sunning areas etc. The babies are now each just over 8 months old, asserting themselves, becoming mature adult pigeons. Increased interest in nesting behaviours. THE PROBLEM being a complete love/hate relationship between themselves and their parents. It's gotten to the point now I can't remove either pair without the other pair freaking out. And yet, the daughter of the wild pair is totally and completely obsessed with her father and trying to make him her mate. She is utterly jealous of her mother and would like nothing more than to kill her. Previously, Henny-the mother was only concerned with her daughter getting close to her nesting areas. Otherwise, she would run from her daughter. NOW, Henny and her mate take equal pleasure and both actively pursue and try to beat the CRAP out of their daughter. RB- the daughter seems to be oblivious to this fact as she doesn't learn from the beatings or that her parents mean business. I've NEVER seen this bizarre behaviour in pigeons. I'm trying hard to integrate the birds, or at least get the young to understand true pigeon behaviours but it seems to be failing. It never gets to the point where a bird gets seriously injured, I won't let that happen but I just keep hoping that something will click or be learned. I'm completely dumbfounded by these obsessive desires by the young hen and her parents to want to get rid of her. BTW, the parents have basically abandoned their attacks on the male youngster and focuss all their attention and energy on the feisty female. IF you guys could only see the videos and witnessed the absolutely unfathomable behaviours of late.............


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

My little Red Runt hen has just layed her first egg!!! Poor girl, she's already dutifully guarding her most likely infertile egg. Wow, she's an adult now for sure


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Brad,

YAY!!! That's great news!! I am so happy for RB.....

Give her lots of calcium, and grit. Also supplements in the water as the vitamins and phosphorus help in the calcium absorption.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

OH and now we are sure that she is a HEN!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Mary, 

Thanks, I was looking for you on MSN to let you know but I didn't see you but figured you read this here. I can't believe she's layed an egg! It should be interesting to see now what she and her brother do. Whether or not they will try or know to incubate the eggs. I'll keep you posted


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Well, a new day and a new update. I guess I'll use this thread as my personal diary *Friday, Feb 11, 2005:* The two young pigeons have been fighting incessantly over the egg layed on the 9th. The hen wants to tend to her prodigy but the young male is just as interested. They can't seem to figure out who should be sitting or tending to the egg. The fights have actually been quite brutal. Both birds now show signs of physical trauma on their ceres. The Red hen bird has shown such courage and determination in her desire to protect her egg. However the male bird is more aggressive overall and fights her until she's too tired. Often she's chased from her nest and egg after exhaustion. In the interum, the male bird has become quite "manly" and wanting more and more to interact with his mother on the other side of the room. Eggbert is NOT PLEASED. I let the male youngster into their side of the room again today after his constant pacing of the barrier, and to his surprise he was met with fierce opposition from BOTH his mother and father. Both senior birds attacked him unrelentlessly He showed no signs of a future "cock" on the block or wanting to prove himself. Instead, he lay flat on his belly, legs spread out to the sides and "allowed" himself to be assaulted by both his parents. I had to break it up again. These pigeons are an enigma to me...I can't fathom their odd behaviours. I'll keep posing though and trying to gain insights from their behaviour


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

This sounds almost like Stewie and Pizzie. They're mates only because all they know are eachother. Whenever Pizzie lays eggs, the two of them fight relentlessly and is usually a sign of "the changing of the guards". When one gets tired and realizes the eggs are exposed, that will be the one who then goes and sits on them.

Stewie's all bark and no bite though. He'll coo and strut around outside their "nest" area then when he goes to enter, Pizzie will attack him. He doesn't even fight back, just flies up to another perch, coos some more and goes back to the nest again - rinse and repeat. Pizzie's the actual brutal one and she'll tear into him, and even chase him around the cage if she's in one of her 'moods'.

This probably happens about 3 days a month... I can't explain it  They get along just fine otherwise and even peacfully change positions on their eggs and eat from the same dish without too much of a fuss.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Brian n Amy, 

Are Stewie and Pizze siblings?


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

They're not related, but they've grown up with eachother since they were each about 3-5 weeks old.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Ah ok.....well that would explain the differences in behaviour. I wonder whether or not my babies KNOW they are siblings and don't see each other as true mates. This will definitely put a dent in the armour...so to speak. These birds have lately been driving me crazy and I get all jittery now because I sense their anxieties  I simply cannot understand Eggberts' incessant desire to hurt and get rid of his young. He's the main problem here who is instigating everything. I also think the babies are picking up on his behvaviour and are becoming as belligerant as he his in turn. (sigh)


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Update on pijjies: It's been one week since my young hen layed her very first egg. She never layed a second which sometimes happens with new hens. For a few days afterwards though, she was behaving very strangely. I got very worried because it almost seemed she might be eggbound but she wasn't.....THANK HEAVENS! I know what to do to help but I'm not prepared mentally to have to go through it. Surprisingly, there has been a strange after effect since the egg. The two youngsters have fought ever since. It started with them fighting over who would sit on the egg. "RB" as I refer to-young hen, fought hard and ferociously to protect her egg from her brother but he was too determined and eventually drove her off and away permanently. He didn't sit on the egg but nearby for a day. It's been really strange though how this fighting has continued. The male youngster now chases his sister all around the room, won't let her perch near him and chases her away from the food dish most of the time. Seems like their cozy sibling relationship is over for now at least. It doesn't seem either like they will form a pair bond. I discussed these issues with Mary and she thinks it's normal and that things should calm down. I hope she/YOU are right Mary!!! These birds have turned out to be quite bruttish, over-bearing bullies and just violent. I never though my sweet Eggbert would turn into such a monster pigeon. I never thought my darling Henny would help her mate beat up their offspring. I never though that the babies' bond would disolve like it has and turn vicious as well. HELP!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

*Hen In Heat!*

Hi Everyone, here's the latest:

Well, all the birds are doing well but it seems that my young hen pigeon is in MAJOR heat-the likes I would never have expected or guessed. She's enamoured with her father beyond belief. The young are still pacing the barrier I've put up to separate the room in half. The female in particular is very restless however. 

As part of my morning routine, I start by cleaning and vacuuming the room and I find it easier if all the birds are out of the room. So, while I'm cleaning up, I leave the doors open and the birds will explore the other side of the basement. Henny and Eggbert are always eager to get out as their 'home' used to be that side of the basement and it's darker. They immediately head to their old stomping grounds where they wanted to build nests. HOWEVER, now the young hen follows and harrasses them incessantly. Henny and Eggbert are barely settled and cooing lovingly in a desired spot when the young hen starts heckling them and trying to horn in on the action. This is followed by Eggbert chasing her back to her room. This cycle of harrassment and chasing went on this morning for nearly 1.5 hours. The young hen never tiring of this "game". She fights her mother with pecks and wing slaps and Henny retaliates strongly. Here's the kicker....EGGBERT is both loving and hating his daughter. One minute, he's beating up his daughter, the next he's trying to mate with her. He seems to see her as a more vibrant and receptive hen for mating and now has tried several times to copulate with his daughter. Henny has both surprised me and humbled me by her reactions to this two-timing behaviour. She keeps a constant watch on Eggbert and the MINUTE she observes him about to mount the young hen, Henny will fly or run and VICIOUSLY attack her daughter. Several times, she's knocked Eggbert off in flight. She is so obviously jealous and bothered. In contrast, the young hen's brother seems to just be content observing his parents behaviour and is innocently curious. It's funny, sad, and strange to witness this behaviour lately and I really feel for all the birds. The young birds hormones must be in overdrive. The young hen is relentless in her pursuits of her father. 

That's the latest from, "as the pigeon world turns"....LOL


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Brad,

It is so nice to read how active and healthy your "babies" are. Interesting that the young hen is ready to pairing up. I wonder if her brother is intimidated. Eggbert is really solid and very self-assured! How old were Henny and Eggbert when you got them?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

Thanks for the reply. I'm not really sure hold old Henny was when I got her because she doesn't have a band. The breeder said she was about a year old though. Eggbert was about the same age as well when I got him but I got him about 6 months after henny. Eggbert is a banded bird though, he's a 2001 hatch.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

WOW! and I thought I had a Jerry Springer thing going on with my pijs. I have 4 females who have paired up. Sounds like you have your hands full. I had a hard time keeping up with your post. I hope they get everything situated.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

KIPPY said:


> WOW! and I thought I had a Jerry Springer thing going on with my pijs. I have 4 females who have paired up. Sounds like you have your hands full. I had a hard time keeping up with your post. I hope they get everything situated.



Kim, you really don't know the half of it! LOL If I was to get into the full details of day to day things that are going on with my birds, you'd laugh, cry and probably think your situation was a breeze


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

I did a little experiment today with my pigeons. I wanted to see how the young male would react to Eggbert since he has not been allowed to interact with Eggbert for quite some time. I've been noticing a lot of aggressive stances and actions from the young male lately towards Eggbert on the other side of the wall. He'll puff up his crop really full, then half charge at the wall where Eggbert is. He'll coo and "show off" in a sense and just give the impression he's trying to intimidate Eggbert.

Henny was sitting on her nest, the young female on hers and both the males were out just sitting around doing nothing. I opened up the doors from the pigeon room to let them out into the other section of the basement. Both came out pretty quick and everything seemed pretty peaceful at first. Then the young hen got really nosey, heard the cooing and came running out of her nest to see what was going on. I let her join the two males at which point Eggbert started dancing and cooing up a storm and tried to mount her several times. The really odd thing is, when this happens, the young male will come charging over to attack his sister. The siblings DO NOT consider themselves mates by any means and haven't for a long time, in fact they dislike each other now. I have no idea why he would attempt to attack his sister when she was about to be mounted by Eggbert.

Then, I put the young female back in her side of the room to allow the males to interact alone. Eggbert wasn't really bothering with him too much after this. However, the young male decided to start climbing up the carpetted stairs in the basement. When he got up a few steps, he decided that this would make a nice place to "call" for a mate I suppose. He started the low moaning cooing right away lying down on the step. ***_ODD, Henny and Eggbert could never get enough of those stairs either when they were in that side of the basement_*** Anyhow, Eggbert got wind of this and immediately went up the stairs to chase his rival off as I suppose Eggbert *STILL* considers this part of his territory too.

Once up there, he immediately started to peck at his son viciously around the neck and head. The young male, did nothing...practically played dead. He just sat there and took it, didn't try to get away, no attempt to fight back and just almost seems to accept this fate in some very strange way.

Anyways, that was that, I separated them pretty quick and put them both back in their respective sides of the pigeon room. 


Just thought I'd give y'all an update of the latest chapter in, "All My Runts"


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Brad,

I've just read this thread for the very first time.

I need therapy now.

Thanks,

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Brad,
> 
> I've just read this thread for the very first time.
> 
> ...


LOL!!! Well how to you think I feel, Pidgey? I've had to put up with these odd ball birds for over a year now. The whole dynamics of these 4 birds is quite bizarre and I've got little to compare it to. 

I'm mostly fine with these goings on now and just let them do whatever they feel they have to. I occasionally will post about the latest of what goes on but I don't want to send you all to the looney bin


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am just amazed after reading your thread, Brad. A soap opera indeed. I picture some kind of disfunctional family, I have a few of those, myself!LOL

My coop of 40 birds, (though we have our uproars) seems boring and quiet compared to the interaction of your Runts.

I'm sure the different breed has something to do with it, that makes them so different from homing pigeons, and maybe some trauma issues of the past with Eggbert, and Henny! Isn't that why Mary had to hand raise them, because of issues with the parents?

My two youngsters (Skye and Sonic) who were abandoned at 4 days old (and hand raised) are inept at raising, let-alone, hatching babies. They lost interest the first day they try to sit on an egg. Skye looks at me so unhappy, like "Do I really have to sit here, on this egg? " He looks misserable, like he knows it is his job and its instinct, but he can't figure out why he has to do it and he doesn't like it in the least. I'm sure it was their unstable childhood.

It is fun watching "the children" isn't it, they are quite amusing & entertaining, and you love them regardless! I can only imagine a day of play with your Runts. LOL

Treesa


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Treesa, 

Yes, I'm sure that the different breed has something to do with it. I have found very few people who keep runts to draw comparisons to in respect to behaviours, demeanors, and just general things about them. Then there is the whole bizarre dynamics of having a semi "wild" pair and a hand raired pair.

Yep, you're right, Henny and Eggbert were inept parents which is why their eggs were taken to Mary's to raise. However, Henny is a very good mom, she acts and behaves like any other pigeon and what I expect her to be like. Eggbert I believe has the "issues" He has been a lack luster dad and I *think* was picked on in his old loft where I got him from. He's a small male runt, only a tad bigger than Henny but doesn't weigh quite as much. 

All in all they are most amusing to watch most of the time, I just hate to see such aggressive behaviour from Eggbert and such shyness from his son. It's so unbalanced. Disfunction....naaa, nothing wrong with my pigeons


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Brad,

Maybe Oprah could straighten them out.

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Pidgey, 


FORGET OPRAH, we need DR. PHIL!!!! LOL


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Brad,

Here are a couple of thoughts I had regarding possible drivers for some of the behavior you are seeing.

A long-breeder said that babies, especially males, tend to fixate on birds the color of their mother. ("I want a girl, just like the girl, that married dear old dad.") To minimize this, he removed the hen after several weeks (sorry, don't remember the exact time table) and lets the cock-bird finish weaning the young.

Pigeons not otherwise occuppied seem to be driven to break up any breeding pair. Nothing personal. (Or perhaps just the opposite!  ) Reminds me of watch dog behavior.

Stairs are valuable because higher perches are better. Plus the carpeting is comfy and a good start to a nest.

Sorry to learn that Eggbert had a troubled childhood. Walter is another Utility breed (King). I don't know anything about his past, but he LOVES sitting on the nest - almost goes into a trance!

I really enjoy your descriptions of the behaviors you observe. Pigeons have more complex social lives than most people realize!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

Thanks for your thoughts on these behaviour questions. I think you make very valid points!!  

I've heard about young males having a tendancy to find mates like their mothers before and in some instances, an actual oedipus complex. So in this case, it would be a white homer (Mary's pigeon Pearl) Now coincidentally, my Henny is a white bird too so maybe in time the young male will show more interest in her (not that I want this). The strange thing with him is, he really hasn't shown any "sexual" interest in his mom. She is the only mature female around and although he would like to get near both his parents, it only seems to be for company. There are even times where he will "lovingly" nibble at the mesh trying to preen Eggbert. He shows none of the usual posturing, dancing or displaying around his mother whatsoever. Unlike his sister who is raving lunitic in love with her father.  

As for the stairs, yes they do make a nice nesting area I'm sure in the pigeon's eyes it's ideal. The lighting is dark there, and with the different heights and carpetting, makes for perfect nesting cozies for them. I tried to copy this by placing pieces of carpet in the nesting boxes for the birds on the floor. And they seem to like the feel as well but not the same as the the stairs themselves.

I'm not sure about Eggbert's past, I was just going on a hunch from what I observed in the coop where he came from. I spent about an hour in that coop watching the pigeons and seeing behaviours before I made a decision on which bird to take home. At that time, Eggbert seemed like a shy male, unsure and easily bullied by some of the larger birds. He looked healthy though and I felt sorry for him which is one of the reasons I took him home

You are so right though Terri, the complex behaviours and interactions between the birds is quite remarkable if you take the time to watch closely. I also find that my young birds behave much more "openly" and natural than most pigeons would because they are hand raised. They are very willing to behave in any way they choose without being hampered by fright of their human

I'm glad you're enjoying the Runt "saga" going on over here. I'll keep you posted of anything new in the future.


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