# Help wanted on bringing up baby



## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Hello there

I found two baby pigeons last Tuesday (14th Sept) that had fallen out of their nest in the high winds that we'd had. I brought them home and put them in a shoe box with some gerbil bedding for warmth. I think they were about 5 days old then, as their eyes were already open.

Unfortunately the smaller of the two died on Thursday evening, but so far, the other one seems to be ok. I just have a few questions to reassure myself that I am doing all the right things:

1. I am feeding him porridge oats mixed with water and liquidised slightly so it's not too bitty. Is this ok? How much should I give him? I think I overfed him slightly yesterday (he will just carry on and carry on eating until I stop him), so his crop didn't empty completely overnight. Should I stop feeding him until his crop is empty. (is having about 20mls each feed)

2. Also when do I need to think about giving him some seeds. I bought some EMP food today - should I mix this in with the porridge or put it separately in a dish or what?

3. He still lives in the same shoe box, but I have lined it with a tea-towel, then some newspaper, then some kitchen roll. Is this ok? Does he need to have some 'out' time or is it ok to just replace the lid and leave him in between feeds?

Thanks for your help

Jo


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jo,

Can you let us know whether the baby fell from a tree or a building? This would enable us to determine whether it is a collared dove, wood pigeon or feral pigeon.

It’s weight would also be a good way of working that out!

The accommodation sounds okay for the time being, he needs to be kept in a dry draught free place, safe from any other pets.

I would let the crop empty before feeding again, because he might otherwise develop sour crop. 

As for feeding I would go for Kaytee Exact as that has everything a growing pigeon would need, including vitamins, probiotics and digestive enzymes. It is also so easy to prepare! They sell it at Pets at Home . 

If you look in General Discussions you will find a thread called “2 hatchlings” that was started by Izzy. That will give you a lot of information on the care and feeding of babies.



Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanks for replying.

Yeah I have been reading Izzy's story with great interest. It has been a great source of information for me, as I wasn't able to post until yesterday (hadn't validated my registration properly!).

The pigeon fell out of a tree. Wasn't sure what it was at first, but then after looking at photos on here I realised it was a pigeon. When I got it, it had only pin feathers, but now seems to be growing a lot of feathers on it's wings. They are brown.

I am over in England - can we buy Kaytee over here. If not, what is the UK equivalent. Having said that, it certainly enjoys the porridge mix, but I was a bit worried that he wasn't getting the appropriate vitamins etc. We've got feeding down to a fine art now - I'm using the balloon/syringe idea that I found on here and it works a treat. The piece of balloon I use is red and as soon as he sees the red colour he's up and ready. He sticks his beak straight in and about 30 secs later we've finished! When I think how long it used to take me to feed him before, it's amazing.

Any other tips that anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated. I'm beginning to understand a lot better, but am still a complete novice and worry about everything.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jo,

Yes, Kaytee Exact is available here in the UK.

If he fell out of a tree then he is either a collared dove or a wood pigeon.

How much does he weigh?

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

I've absolutely no idea how much he weighs Cynthia - I'll weigh him before his next feed. If he's about two weeks old how much should he weigh?

Can Kaytee be bought in most pet shops then. I only ask because I went into my local pet shop last Thursday trying to see if they had anything to recommend giving him, and the assistant just said I should give him bread and milk, which is probably one of the worst things to give him isn't it. I'm out and about tomorrow so I'll try and get some. I suppose now he's about two weeks old I'll make it up quite thick, is that right?

Will report back again once I've weighed him. Thanks for your help

Jo


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I don't know what the ideal weight would be, but my baby wood pigeon already weighed 120 gms at 7 days, whereas the collared dove only weighed that when she was fully grown.

Collared doves feel very fragile in your hand, all bones and feathers. They are also squirmers.

We have 2 Pets at Home stores in Norwich and that is where I bought mine.

You are right, bread and milk would not be at all suitable.

At two weeks you could actually try Ceedee egg food. Add water and leave for about half an hour so that it forms a runny paste then feed that by the syringe and balloon method. Or you can do the same with chick or duck starter crumbs.

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Hi Cynthia,

He gets very excited when it's feeding time, but other than that he's quite still. 

I bought some EMP egg food today. Would that be any good to give him or not? If not, I'll get some of the stuff that you suggest.

I must admit to becoming very fond of him, although what I'll do in the next few weeks I don't know. I own a cat as do most of the people in my street. So I'm going to have my work cut out keeping him safe, but I'm sure I'll work something out. My cat has only shown a slight bit of interest in him at the moment, but I'm sure when he starts flapping about, he'll show a lot more interest lol.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jo,

Feral pigeons like people, so they make excellent pets. Colllared doves can adapt to living as pets but they don't like cages! Wood pigeons are even more difficult in captivity and can be very unhappy.

If it is a woodpigeon or a collared dove then maybe it would be better to release it once it can fend for itself, preferably via somewhere like Brent Lodge that can place it with others of its kind before release.

i know that is so much easier said than done! I have a collared dove living in my bedroom/bathroom at the moment and hate the thought of releasing her to a precarious existence. But she batters herself against the window whenever she can in her anxiety to be free, so I know that freedom is what she wants. Her companion at the moment is a feral pigeom, who would be quite happy to stay where he is as long as he has company!

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Hi Cynthia

Have just weighed him - and he weighs in at about 90 gms. Is this weight ok? Is 20mls of feed four times a day ok, or should I be giving him more or less?

Looks like he's probably a wood pigeon then. I'd be quite happy to see him released back into the wild, because ultimately, that seems to be where they want to be. Also it might actually be safer for him than a whole road full of cats ready to pounce at any moment.lol. Brent Cross sounds like a good idea, I'll look into it soon. He is a sweetie though, so I hope they look after him well.

Jo


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I would imagine that EMP Egg Food is the same as CeDe egg food, designed for canaries. That should be fine.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My guess is collared dove. I have bumped up two posts that contain photos of developing wood pigeons and collared doves.


Scroll all the way through "New Arrivals" by Diogenese and you will find photos of wood pigeons at various stages of development.

"Baby Pigeon" by Sally has photos of her collared dove, Kelly.

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanks Cynthia for all the information.

IThink he is a wood pigeon, but appears to be brown in colour which threw me. The photos of the pigeons in 'New Arrivals' look similar to mine, which is also what makes me think it's a wood pigeon.

I think I will start feeding him a few grains/peas tomorrow, and see how he gets on with this, just as a top up to his normal feed.

Thanks for all your help

Jo


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jo,

90 gms would be underweight for a woodpigeon of his age. Has it got the white stripe on its wing yet? Stretch the wing out gently to see what is happening. 



Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Oh dear, I hope everything's ok.

Tried stretching his wing out, but not too keen. But he does flap his wings before feeding and can't say that I've noticed a white stripe. 

Could he be underweight due to the fact that he only really started eating properly over the weekend. Or maybe he's not quite as old as I'd thought, although he must be at least two weeks old. 

I'm still feeding him the porridge oats, now mixed with a bit of egg food, as I haven't been able to get any Exact forumula. Could this be another reason why he's not growing quite so fast. His feathers are def. growing now, and they're brown. No sign of grey except for the very tip of his wings which look slightly grey-ish.

Won't be back to a computer until Sunday now (leaving hubby in charge of feeding), but look forward to your replies then.

Jo 

p.s I'll take a photo on Sunday and upload it, so you can see if he's doing ok.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

A photo will be great. As long as he is eating and growing he is doing fine!

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

Have just weighed him again - he now weights 100gms so has put on 10gms at least, which is good isn't it.

Jo


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

WELL DONE !!!!  

Cynthia


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Hi! He sounds like a collared dove. I send off to Northern Parrots in the UK for for Kaytee Exact as no petshops near me (I'm in Devon UK) sell it, they have a website.www.24Parrot.com
I also use Tropican hand rearing formula, which I have only seen at Southern Aviaries, (they have a webiste too) Tiggywinkles recommend it for pigeons/doves. Not to be confused with a different type of Tropican for birds which is granules I think which a lot of places sell! The one I use is a yellow powder.

Alison


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jo,

John showed me the photo you sent, it is definitely not a wood pigeon and its colouring looks too rich for a collared dove although I suppose that could be the lighting. I started looking for photos of a turtle dove to compare, but couldn't find anything. I even started wondering whether it could be a feral after all but I don't think so. Fortunately we can discount stock dove! I still think collared dove, but it seemed to have some white in it on the photograph....Is it shades of brown or does it have colour variations?

I will ask Ali's opinion.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I sent the photo to Ali and she said:

Hi Cynthia, I think a Woodie, but not sure because of it being blurry! I wonder if she can send a clearer pic, so we can see for sure if the white wing stripes are there and dark beak, and dusky pink breast. Will look at pigeons.com if I get the chance later.

Alison sees hundreds more woodies than I do! 

Cynthia


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## Jo_Isaac (Sep 22, 2004)

This is the clearer photo I sent to John today. It's a lot better as it was taken outdoors.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Hi Jo, is that a white stripe at the bottom of the wing in the pic, or just grey? If there's no white stripe it's a collared dove, if that is a white stripe it's a woodpigeon. The crop/breast area doesn't have pinkish feathers does it? Is it just pink skin on the crop I can see, with grey feathers?
How much are you giving each feed, how many times a day? Sorry I haven't read all the posts in this thread!
I've raised several baby woodies but not many doves, I can send you woodie pics privately if you like; [email protected]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Update!*

Jo is off to Cyprus this weekend so she handed the dove over to John who brought her up to me. She has definitely been identified as a collared dove now and has already grown a collar!

She is currently in my bedroom with Muppet (another collared dove), Woody (wood pigeon) and Gonzo (feral pigeon).

I have ordered a small aviary which I hope to use as a release aviary for "wild" birds and I hope to be able to acclimatise the doves and wood pigeons in that, at the same time they will be able to watch and learn from the wild ones that visit the garden all day long and hopefully join them eventually.

Jo's dove is such a Poppet that that is what I have decided to call him/her.

Cynthia


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