# Need some advice...



## Strider (Feb 24, 2011)

Today as I arrived home from work I saw a pigeon on my front driveway. Looking at him, his wing seemed to be drooping so I stopped my car, about to get out to assist the bird. Before I could get out, I saw a man in a jumpsuit running over from the house down the street, and stupidly thought he was coming to help. Rolling down my window, I asked him,"What happened to the bird?" he replied, "It was shot". At this point I further asked, "Who shot him?", to which he responded, "I did". At this point, I saw him going torwards the bird with a plastic bag. I wanted to get out of the car to get the bird from him, but I was in shock at what was happening. I then asked, "Why did you shoot him?" the man responded almost laughing, 'I'm pest control dude, these things carry 100's of diseases." He then proceeded to bag the bird, it's wing bloodied and still bleeding. The bird struggled to get out, as the man stood in front of my car window. I cautiously asked, "What's going to happen to him?" and he said "He's going to die" a sickening smile across his horrible face. My response was bleak "I see..."
Looking at that murderer walk to his garage with the struggling bird... I wanted to run out and rescue that helpless creature, but for some reason... I was frozen to my car seat, in shock, partially worried of the confrontation that may ensue. Then, as I was about to jump out of the vehicle, my girlfriend held my arm, telling me not to go, as usual the level headed one telling me that I don't know what the man had on him. She offered to go ask for the bird, at which I stated it would be pointless, he wouldn't give her the bird... a man like that is a sick bastard who enjoys killing.

For the last few hours I've regretted the decision to not rescue that bird... god forgive me.

After the incident, I decided to question the kids playing outside when all of this happened. It turned out that one of the kids playing who was maybe 6 years old or so, was the man's son. I learned that the man bags the birds and lets them suffocate/bleed to death, or so his son states. The reasoning, the boy claims, is that the birds poop all over the roof of their house and ruin the paint, so his dad shoots them and they don't come back. One of the children asked why I cared if the man shot the pigeons. I responded that it was illegal, and that it was also cruel. I asked the kids if they had any pets of their own, to which one girl replied that she had a dog. I said to her " If your dog pooped all over the place, would you kill him just because it made your house look bad?" to which she responded 'no'.

Going inside my garage, I sat in my car, thinking about what had happened. I became angered and sad at what I had not done to rescue the bird. I sat for a moment and thought. I decided to call the police to see what laws there were about shooting animals in residential areas. I got two different responses from two different police dept. The last department said it was illegal to shoot a firearm in a residential area and that she would dispatch some officers. I decided to ask if I could meet them in a more discreet location, to which she, audibly agitated with me, said she would just send them to the man's residence instead and she proceeded to ask me his address. I told her I would go into a station instead nto talk to someone and thanked her for her time - she just said ok and hung up on me. I decided that it would be too risky to get officers involved so soon after the incident or it may lead the man to assume it was me.

I then drove to the police station. After about an hour waiting, I finally got to talk to someone about what happened. It seems, there is some dilemma in finding out what is or isn't against the law.

The man who killed the pigeon - since he works for a pest control company - would presumably have a 'license to kill' these animals. If that's so, according to the person I talked to, I may not have a case about that. (thinking about this later, I've decided that if this is so, is he legally allowed to dispose of the 'pest' in his home rather than the company hq? Furthermore, if he works for a company, shouldn't there be a 'workorder' or something so he can act on his license and perform a job?)
Where I would possibly have a case, as I brought up to the deskperson, would be the fact the man was shooting in a residential area, potentially, he could miss and shoot through someone's window, destroying property or possibly injuring or killing someone. 
The deskperson recommended that I research what the laws were for pest control licenses and their use of firearms to 'exterminate' pests. This recommendation was after he searched his database for laws and regulations and talked to the officer on staff about the legality of shooting pigeons with a firearm. He also gave me the number to animal control and suggested I call them in the morning as they may have more information on the license rules and regulations. He did assure me that if I felt endangered by this person using a firearm close to my property that I should not hesitate to call and have them send out officers to the area.

After coming home, I decided to do some research on the pest control company and some state laws on pest control.

Researching the company 'Enviro Safe Pest Control' http://www.lvpest.com/pigeons/ . I found that on their site they state, "EnviroSafe uses only humane methods to keep pigeons and other nuisance birds from threatening your health and property". 
I would hardly think that shooting and bagging a bird that is bleeding to death is humane...

Doing research on the laws, I came up with nothing defining pigeons as pests, nor did I find anything on the rules on the methodology of destroying pests. The website I checked was http://agri.nv.gov/PCO_Laws.htm . It is the plant division, but nowhere else could I find laws pertaining to pest control for Nevada. 

After my hours of research, I decided to come here and seek help from people who actually care about the welfare of animals, especially pigeons. If anyone could assist in finding out information pertaining to what I have mentioned, I would be very grateful.

Having grown up around birds since I was 8 years old, I cannot stand for this treatment of them, especially in my own neighborhood. I have a companion umbrella cockatoo who has been in my family since he was 4 years old and is now 20 years old, and two companion pigeons, of one who coincidentially I found in my driveway with an injured wing. After about a year he has healed but cannot fly anymore. It really makes me wonder if that sick bastard had anything to do with my friend's broken wing... either way, I will go after this son of a ***** to mete out as much justice and vengeance as I can.

-Sean


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Strider and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. I'm moving your post to General. You will get lots more replies there and even though you are being a pigeon advocate, I think it will have better results to move the thread. 

Bless you for caring as you do. 

Terry


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## Strider (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you Terry.
I'm currently calling around as I type this, trying to figure out what the legality of this situation is. I've been up all night thinking about this, and have come to the thought that no matter the outcome... I will probably end up moving from this neighborhood. Sad world we live in. I don't even feel safe to walk outside in my backyard with my Cockatoo anymore.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm betting that is illegal to shoot birds in your city. Here in this city it's only legal to trap or poison feral pigeons. Also the man may or may not work for an exterminating company. It's likely he just told you that to give some legitimacy to actions.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Strider..........I also live in Las Vegas. I had a problem with a neighbor a few years ago who was shooting pigeons in my neighborhood. This SOB was shooting them with an air rifel using BB pellets. There were injured and dead pigeons all over my neighborhood. I had two windows broken in the second story of my house costing me over $300 to repair. I have companion pigeons that have been shot and are now healed however are unreleasable.

During this period I called the police METRO, and actually identified the shooter. The police went to his door, spoke with him and then filled out a report and that was only just to satisfy me. They did absolutely nothing........ Doing my own research at the time I found there are no laws in this state regarding shooting pigeons. However there is a law about discharging any weapon within 200ft of a persons residential property. 

If you see anything like this again, please don't be afraid to call the police. Children's lives, pets lives and property are all at risk. I know how guilty you feel about not saving the bird, but just imagine how you would feel if a child had been injured and you could have prevented it by calling the police.

The attitude in this city is that it is still very much still the "Wild West" and things are tolerated here that would be considered a felony in most other cities. The police here for the most part are useless. Moving from your neighborhood will not change a thing.....this sort of insane behavior prevails all over this town.

I hate this city!!!!!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Exactly. If there are really no laws regarding animal cruelty in the city or state (are there really no laws ??? that actually seems amazing to me....) then indeed, there are laws about discharging a weapon, even a bb gun, in public or semi-public, outdoor area. So you have him on that...and in the very least the police will pay a visit and make a report. Also, carry a camera or vidphone with you, since the bast#rd clearly thinks this is OK to do in plain view of people....

Now...what I would do...is contact IDA (In Defense of Animals). Look 'em up on the web...there may be a NV chapter, if not there certainly is a CA one. CALL someone there (don't e-mail) and explain the situation. They have a good legal team and can research all applicable laws and codes. It may be acity code, county code, state code...it may be criminal code or civil code or even health code. The Police dept. doesn't really know, or enforce, all applicable codes on the books. Their familiarity is with criminal only...although, again, I am wondering still if there well may be such a code which prohibits this. Weapons discharge, cruelty to animals, illegal or inhumane 'pest' control methods, etc. There may well be something on the books that a layman would overlook.

You may also want to contact your local SPCA or Humane Society as well.

It is very lonely to go this by yourself, but there are some allies out there, and that makes it easier....

I am sorry this is happening....just try to do all you can to advocate for those pigeons and as Louise said, in the very least the police can pay a visit....

On top of all that, if it were me...I'd actually probably pop a few bb gun shots at the wall of a few nearby buildings, mailboxes, garbage cans, etc...near to where you saw this guy do this. You then call the police, and tell them that this guy is hauling off with his bb gun..... at wildlife... and missing...and hitting people's homes.....Can't something be done about this, Officer ?


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

what is the name and adress and telephone # of the company he is employed by? Sorry you had it in there.

I'd encourage everyone to take advantage of your free cell phone minutes and call the company. 

Enviro Safe Pest Control, Inc.
5010 S. Decatur Blvd.
Suite F,
Las Vegas, NV 89118

Las Vegas: 702-385-1269
Henderson: 702-387-2045
Email: [email protected]


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusnvodlasvegas_reno.htm#s7_32

looks as if the destruction(suffocation)of the bird would be the legal sticking spot for this guy


7.32.110 Keeping animals for fights--Shooting animals or birds.

(A) It is unlawful for any person to:

(1) Own, keep, or use, or be in any manner connected with or financially interested in the management of, or to receive money or other thing of value for the admission of any person to, a house, apartment, pit or place procured or permitted to be used or occupied for an animal fighting venture;

(2) Instigate, promote, arrange, or carry on an animal fighting venture;

(3) Breed or train any animal for the purpose of using the animal in an animal fighting venture;

(4) Keep or possess any animal under circumstances evincing an intent to use the animal in an animal fighting venture; or

(5) Perform any act as assistant, umpire, principal, spectator or otherwise in a fight between animals, or in aid of or calculated to encourage or further any animal fighting venture.

(B) It is unlawful for any person who is not engaged in training a dog for field trial or hunting, or in staging a field trial or training class, to fire upon any animal, including a pigeon or other bird, unless hunting pursuant to authority granting from the U.S. Government, the State, or one of their respective political subdivisions.

7.32.170 Trapping--Manner--Care while trapped.

It shall be a misdemeanor for any person to trap any animal with other than a humane “live” trap which will inflict no physical injury upon the animal; and it shall be unlawful for any person to lure or entice, by means of food or otherwise, any animal into other than a humane “live” trap; it shall be unlawful for any person having trapped an animal to leave it without food, water or shelter, for an unreasonable period of time.

(Ord. 3618 § 136, 1991)



7.32.180 Trapping--Disposal.

It shall be a misdemeanor for any person who has trapped an animal, or discovers any animal so trapped, to dispose of it in any fashion not otherwise provided by law, but said person shall call the Animal Control Officer to have said animal picked up, deliver it to the Animal Control Center, or otherwise dispose of it as directed by the Animal Control Officer.

(Ord. 3618 § 137, 1991)


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice work...I was thinking of that last night...in the very least if shooting isn't illegal, or if it is but goes unenforced, then cruelly torturing an animal to death surely is....even in nv.


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## Strider (Feb 24, 2011)

So... after calling around yesterday, I did get some useful information.

According to Animal Control, it is illegal for pest control companies to kill pigeons with a firearm, their license does not permit that. They are allowed to use non lethal means, and if they choose to use a lethal route, they are to use a specific poison designed to put the birds to 'sleep'.

Furthermore, I was also informed that if he is participating in acts of animal cruelty, Animal Control will investigate the surrounding area including his trashcan (if on the curb) and his backyard if it looks suspicious. If they find any evidence of animal cruelty, they will proceed with further investigation.

At the time of talking to the lady at AC, I had asked her if she thought it wise to have them come out and investigate the surrounding property that day. She recommended that I try and catch him in the act again, and then immediately call dispatch. 

Today at work, I couldn't stop thinking about what happened. I kept seeing my car pulling up, about to park, and that bird running, only to be cut off by my vehicle... that monster chasing it. I hate to imagine what it was thinking at that point, not knowing where to run, and trying so hard to fly... if only I knew what was going on at the time... I wish I would have saved the bird. I really should have saved it...
Sadly, as my girlfriend pointed out, I can't go back. What's done is done, but I can pursue this, to do my best to avenge that poor bird and its brethren, and to prevent this psycho from hurting more innocent animals.

Working today, I had a lot of time to think... as I worked, I kept thinking of ideas that revolved around catching him in the act. I couldn't accept any of these plans because I do not want to allow him to hurt anymore animals. I finally came up with an idea that may work. I've decided that what I want to do is make sure the evidence doesn't disappear. 
Trashday is this coming Tuesday. If I can convince Animal Control to come out before the trash goes... or maybe, I can make sure when the truck comes by I prevent them from taking it until Animal Control can get here. Either way, If they go through it and find the remains of the birds with bullet wounds, that would be solid evidence to hold against him.

lwerden, I have very little fondness for this city also. I've been here since I was younger because my father was stationed at Nellis, but I'm getting closer and closer to leaving this place. 
I was just talking to my gf last night, I was saying wouldn't it be great if there was a town or even a city that was officially animal friendly? A place where animals had equal right to live just like humans do? I would love to find a community where people are living in harmony with all animals, and if there was a problem with overpopulation ect, that there would be humane, non-lethal solutions proposed and used (save natural animal tendancies to hunt for prey). Has anyone heard of such a thing? If not... maybe I should start one... someday 

Jaye, thanks for those good ideas, I'm definately going to look into IDA... I could use all the support I can get. Which reminds me, another idea I was thinking of last night was to try and get the local news involved. I think channel 13 here does some good investigations, and even though the majority of humans look at pigeons as pests, I doubt most would agree with inhumane treatment of them. Furthermore, I'm sure the station would want to blast that 'Enviro Safe' bs of a company wide open. I know I do...

Jason, I appreciate you looking all that up man, I'll probably need to use that sometime soon.

Alright then, I'm getting fired up already! I'm going to change my sd card on my phone so I have memory to video what happens. There's no way I'm letting this asshole get away with this!
If anyone has any other ideas, or something they think I should add to my plan, I'm all eyes and ears. Thanks again for the input.

-Strider


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

wow strider all i have have to say is I commend your effort in defending our pigeons, cant wait to hear what happens next


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

That's good thinking Strider. I am sorry all of this is falling on your shoulders...but, believe me....I can relate because I had a similar thing happen to me about 2 years ago...maybe almost 3 years now. SOB neighbors were shooting Ferals w/ a bb gun, but many managed to survive and I'd find 'em on the sidewalk. They ended up murdering one of my beloved Feral adolescents who lived in my lightwell, too. It took a lot of effort and help from the sources I mentioned, because AC only made a halfhearted attempt at following up on things. That's where IDA helped me out and long story short, AC came down on the neighbors and it stopped. But it was a nightmare.

If you can converse with the same AC person you spoke to already, stick with that person. The trash idea is a good one. I hate to say it, but perhaps even go thru their trash yourself, at night, with a camera on-hand. Keep any sort of visual recording device handy. Here's the thing, the b#stard had no qualms about doing this in public in plain view, in the vicinity. He will do it again, and he doesn't suspect anyone is being vigilant about it...so, likely (and horribly) you can come up with some more evidence for AC.

Another thought being, if the SOB is just an employee at the company and doesn't run it...you can also figure out how to file a proper report with whatever county/city bureau oversees pest control businesses. Your claim is simple: you witnessed him shoot and torture a Feral Pigeon to death, while identifying himself to be with the company and working at the time. 
Because, I am hazarding to guess that if he has a manager, they ain't gonna be too happy about getting into hot water because the idiot ran his mouth off. Even if he is the boss, it's sill a very strong compaint to file with the right bureau; because, again, the jack#ss connected his company to the murder he was committing.
I wouldn't do that yet, because trying to nab him with the aid of AC is a better option since, again, he's very likely unaware and undeterred at the moment. Whereas if he gets whiff of a complaint, then he would be alerted and become aware someone's watching.

Hey, dude...you are doing well in a horrible situation. Keep trying to cover all the bases and good luck w/ IDA...they are good folk.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Strider said:


> ... At the time of talking to the lady at AC, I had asked her if she thought it wise to have them come out and investigate the surrounding property that day. She recommended that I try and catch him in the act again, and then immediately call dispatch.
> ......
> Working today, I had a lot of time to think... as I worked, I kept thinking of ideas that revolved around catching him in the act. I couldn't accept any of these plans because I do not want to allow him to hurt anymore animals. I finally came up with an idea that may work. I've decided that what I want to do is make sure the evidence doesn't disappear.
> Trashday is this coming Tuesday. If I can convince Animal Control to come out before the trash goes... or maybe, I can make sure when the truck comes by I prevent them from taking it until Animal Control can get here. Either way, If they go through it and find the remains of the birds with bullet wounds, that would be solid evidence to hold against him.
> -Strider


Strider, so sorry for your recent experiance, I think similar things would go through my mind in a situation like that. Here in the UK, firearm laws are much stricter & police would have had the guy in custody for even carrying one.
I commend you for your thoughts and ideas about this and really think Animal Control (as you suggested) should have acted at the time, however chances are that by now this guy will have already disposed of the evidence via other methods. Maybe still worth a try to get them to check, but if they turn up nothing then from your description of the incident and his attitude, the guy is forewarned and just going to be even more careful in future. I doubt that it would actually stop him.



Jaye said:


> ..... The trash idea is a good one. I hate to say it, but perhaps even go thru their trash yourself, at night, with a camera on-hand. Keep any sort of visual recording device handy. Here's the thing, the b#stard had no qualms about doing this in public in plain view, in the vicinity. He will do it again, and he doesn't suspect anyone is being vigilant about it...so, likely (and horribly) you can come up with some more evidence for AC. ....


I can see where your coming from with this Jaye, but how does the law stand in the USA on this ?
The trash, although being waste & not wanted by the person disposing of it, is still technically their property so anyone going through it is actually "invading their privacy" by going through their belongings, and if caught could result in serious charges.
Also, as there is no "warrant" to search, such a search would be illegal and not submissable as evidence, even if evidence to the crime was found.
Even if the trash is intercepted after it has been removed from his property, unless it is obtained via legal paperwork it would be viewed as the same.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

Maybe you could videotape him when he has the gun. I realize this might be impossible depending on where he is when he is doing the shooting.


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