# Sick baby pidgeon? first time handling



## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Hello, this is my first time handling a baby pidgeon, and he seems to be sick. I will tell you giorgio's story in hope that it might help, i really hope you guys can help me understand because i am at a complete loss on how to handle him. 
So me and my boyfriend found a baby pidgeon last week, he still has yellow fuzz, and we are unsure of how old he is exactly, but he seems to be around 3-4 weeks old. My boyfriend decided to raise him until he could be released. At first he did not move around much, and was very quiet unless disturbed, and would not eat, probably due to stress. over the course of a few days he got a lot peppier and chirped almost all of the time, batting his wings and trying to jump over the box. He began to peck food out of our fingers, and we gave him mostly peas and corn, about 10, 3 times a day, and a bit of water with the help of a syringe. adittionally, he's been sleeping in in an isolated part of the house, not too cold, and not too warm, although we lack any heating source in that area we put some really warm clothing on bottom of the box. He was energetic as i described all day yesterday, caught a bit of fresh air and sun, he seemed perfectly fine! 
However, when i came home to feed him today, he was really off, not moving around as much. I started to try to feed him, and he would peck very lightly and miss all the time, he stumbles around falling over very easily, he also seems sleepy as he is constantly closing his eyes and catching himself falling forward as he closes them...i had to feed him a bit of bird mash as it was near impossible to get solids in his mouth with his struggling. I put an electric heater near to the box to warm him up in case he's actually sick, and he's been sleeping for a while, only waking up and getting agitated when he senses me near. He isn't turning his head at an odd angle, so i don't think its that bird desease, please help me i really don't know what to do, and i don't want to let him die out of inexperience...


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

ok, update, after resting for a bit, he woke up and started chirping, i tried feeding him peas, and his energy was back!  he ate around 20 pieces of corn and peas on his own, and his pecking was much stronger! 
However, please help me understand, what did we do wrong? was he not fed enough these past days? is it lack of warmth?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

First off, pigeons his age only eat directly out of their parents' beaks so they haven't even SEEN real food before. That being said, he's had to learn the hard way what food even looks like and learn how to eat it a few weeks early. The same goes with drinking. His energy state dropped dramatically during the learning curve because they usually eat quite a bit (huge amount, considering their size) that got interrupted due to whatever happened that caused him to come into your care, so some temporary wilting is to be expected. Things should be lookin' up now, though!

Pidgey


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

10 peas 3 times daily is not enough. Rather go for 30. Looks as if due to shortage of food, his energy levels was very low. It is also dangerous to give water by syringe, rather dip the tip of the beak (not the nostrils) in water to see if he will drink. Peas has a lot of moisture, so if he don't drink, it won't do harm.

He won't need additional heat at that age, but a bit of sunlight will only do good as long as you keep an eye that he does not overheat in the sun. You can also leave some peas with him, he will start pecking at them and that's how they usually start eating on their own.

He looks a bit young, maybe 2 or 2 1/2 weeks old. Might get human imprinted, and then will be difficult to release.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

At their parents, baby birds are fed almost continuously, the crop is always overfilled but you shouldn't do that, as artificial feeding, as you do to him, has some risques. 

Nevertheless, you should feed and fill his crop everytime and immediately it got emptied. If the crop is functioning well and emptying normally, you may need to feed him 5-7 times a day. 

The crop must be almost filled but overfilling should be avoided, that is, food must fill most of the space but still to be some place for more food. Is important to not overfill the crop as overfilling puts pressure on crop's walls and leads to crop compaction, and a succession of other complications.


In photo, it appears to be some bread crumble on the box's bottom. If that is the case, you should stop giving this type of food, as it can cause gissard blockage and anyway has little nutritional value. Stay with defrozen and slightly warmed (frozen) peas and corn and maybe in few days you can pass to dried corn or pigeon seed mix (if not other problems appear).

If possible, please post some photos with the droppings. Their aspect may indicate digestive problems, that are a deadly threat.

Also, you should keep the box near a heating device or, ideally, put an electric pad under baby, on the bottom of the box. Baby birds need suplimentary heat for digestion, this is why parents sit on them. And if sick or undernourished (your baby pigeon is either one or both), they need even more warmt and to be protected from drafts. You also can keep him wraped in a thick, comfortable cloth, like a towel, that will increase body warmt. Just take care to have air.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Thank you very much for your replies! i will take into consideration all of your advice  

Marina B, about the imprinting, that is a problem i had considered, but hoped he would be too old for it to happen. we might have an alternative, in case he does become too friendly with humans, as my boyfriend has an uncle that is a pigeon lover, and has cared for many through out the years. However, we would both prefer for him to be completely free, is there some source from which we can understand how to release him successfully, even if he does imprint? or is it impossible to revert?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, trust me, they can be TOTALLY imprinted and STILL be releasable--it's all in how you do it. We got our first one a little older than that one and she even slept in our bedroom. Later, when she could fly, we'd take her on our shoulders (wth a towel) down to a place where the other pigeons would sit up on the power lines. She eventually got to the point where she'd fly up there with 'em and sit on the lines for awhile until we turned to leave and then she'd fly down to us and we'd all walk home together (yes, folks in the neighborhood made some jokes about that).

In time we'd just drop her off out of the car window as though it was daycare and then pick her up in the evenings (she'd fly down to the truck and into the window). She eventually stayed the night with the wild pigeons roosting in the big highway sign and then came to us the next day, stay with us that night and then do two nights in a row "out there"... 

We left her out there with 'em while we went on vacation to Peru for a couple of weeks. Saw her when we got back but she'd gone completely wild. We figured out where she was roosting at night in an abandoned building shed (steel building rafters--20 feet high, so we knew she was all right. The REAL imprinting problem was that Lin got so attached to her that she worried to the point of just plain out-and-out not being able to stop worrying. 

So.

We made The World's Biggest Butterfly Net (but didn't notify the Guinness Book of World Records on account of embarrassment) and caught her in the middle of the night--thus began our entire loft. She lived with us until she finally died of a combination of cancer and old age.

It doesn't really matter how imprinted they get, SOMEbody is going to have to teach 'em how to actually survive out there. They'll get it from the local flock, but you're stuck with getting them friendly with said flock. The way we did it, we took her on walks out in the neighborhood BEFORE she could fly and got used to being with us "out there". That made it simple for her to recognize us from far away--I could tell you a bunch of stories about that. We'd take her to a nearby park (walked there) and would set her down and get her to fly to us from further and further away. It was just training.

The biggest danger is always predators and that's why you want them to ONLY feel safe on the ground IN the house. Outside it's only WITH you or up on the line with the other pigeons. It's always fraught with danger and there's just no escaping that. Their average lifespans "out there" are roughly about two or three years, so about 1/4th to 1/5th of what they'll generally live in captivity.

And different individuals will have vastly different personalities. Some of them are literally too gentle and trusting to make it "out there" and some of them are mean enough to survive almost ANYthing--you don't know which it will be until they get quite a bit older. After awhile of doing this, you kinda' get a sense for that.

Pidgey


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Pidgey, thank you so much for the reply, we will try to get him to go out more with us when he gets a full coat of feathers at least, although we both have busy lives with college and what not, we will do it for him!

I'm getting a bit worried though, because my boyfriend just called me saying he got very letargic and wobbly again.. :C he fed him twice this afternoon, not sure about the amount, but giorgio was looking fine when i dropped by to give my boyfriend a blanket and cotton for the "nest" this evening. I worry that either we are wayy off on the amount of food he needs, or he's really getting sick...


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm sorry to post again so early. But the same thing that happened this morning happened again... However, this time it seems a lot more serious. I fed Giorgio about 5 to 6 hours prior, in a normal 3 time feeding day. A lot of peas were given, about 15, plus some special bird food. He's been acting normal this whole time, he always chirps a lot. However , there was a time he stopped, but he began chirping again every time I checked him. So I supposed he simply wanted attention. However, after being distracted by work, and stopped hearing him chirp, I simply assumed he was sleeping, since he tends to fall asleep when in my room with a heater. But in the last feeding of day, I check him, and when he wakes up, he starts moving randomly from a place to another in an attempt to reach me, but he is unable to keep a posture and get any food. He could barely open his mouth. I Opened his mouth for him and gave him the special bird mixture I bought, in hopes to get better. He reacted, but as time went one he kept moving until his wings move in weird ways. He started to contort himself in weird poses while opening his mouth wide, though he didn't chirp one bit. He eventually got tired and stayed still. After giving him food, I put a heater next to him while he's comfy. He barely reacts to when I touch him, which is the opposite of before, opens his eyes and mouth a little. The situation looks really bad, the only thing I could see myself doing wrong would be perhaps a way too distant feeding or sleeping hour... But I'm unsure. I really doubt he will survive this ;( Maybe it's not just lack of energy but also an infection, and If that's the case I dont know what I could possibly do.... 

I just hope he'll survive until tomorrow, I will be all day home and I hope I'll do what's best for him to recover... But at the moment I'm at lost...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Not getting enough to eat and not getting enough fluids could have caused problems. 
Where did you find him? He may also have been injured from a fall.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

He can have a digestive disease and probably is starving, as the amount and quality of food you provided is insufficient. From photos, it looks unwell. Please post photos with the droppings, they may be indicative for digestive disease. Palpate his chestbone; is it sharp, without flesh? Then the bird is emaciated which is a serious condition. Many baby birds are sick at this age, in fact only a small percent of babies are making it into adults. Any stress, like the one from starving, or cold allows diseases to invade the organism and treatment of a sick bird, especially at this age, can be successful often only if carried by someone with lot of experience or not even by such a person.

For a sick and thin bird, suplimentary warmt and comfort measures are necessary (same way as when the humans are sick). A moderately warm environment created with a heating device near box or, ideally, with an electric pad under the baby (on the bottom of the box) and a cover of the top of the box when no need of light for eating. Warm room temperature is not enough, there must be a source of heating in the nearness of the bird.


At his age, if healthy, baby pigeons are fed big amounts of food by their parents and pass a lot of big dropings around the nest. Defrosted peas has little nutritive value, they are 70% water. And a growing bird needs several other nutrients that are not provided by peas but by other seeds: corn, sunflower, wheat etc. The solution is to buy pigeon food, a pigeon seed mix containing corn, peas and other seeds, from pet shop, a pigeon - specialised shop or comand it online. He seems to have more than 15 days, which means can eat such solid food. It should look like this:











To a mix like that I would add some pelled, unsalted sunflower seeds, as for a baby there is need for more fat that the commercial mixes don't contain. But these pelled sunflower seeds must not amount for more than 5-10%.


If the bird has no digestive problems, the crop must be filled 3 / 4 (not completely) each time has emptied, to ensure rapid growth of the baby. Read more here:
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/howmuchtofeed.htm



All these apply to healthy baby pigeons. If sick, the disease must be identified and urgently treated as they may prevent bird from eating enough and can lead to death pretty soon. So you need to give more details about him. If not digesive, he can have a respiratory or other kind of issue.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Jay3, we found him at the bottom of a storefront, i believe his nest was on top of the storefront, which was at least 3 meters high. He didn't seem hurt this past week, and he has no outter wounds as far as we can observe, but we will take extra care while handling him him just in case. 
Yeah, after he had that weakened state yesterday again, my boyfriend fed him when he started begging for food again until he was only doing it halfheartedly, and he ate a whole lot more than we had been feeding him, we feel really bad for not realizing just how much his chirping meant he was hungry :/ he's better now, and we will be following a stricter schedule with the feeding, and monitoring if he is gaining weight..I hope we can get things right this time for real, for giorgio's sake.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Glad to hear the baby is doing better. 

In your first post you said he was pecking food from your hands. Usually if they can do that, they are able to eat peas by themselves. Leave some in a little bowl for him to start practicing. Once he is able to eat peas by himself, mix some seeds in with the peas and eventually he will learn to them as well.

It's always such a relief when they start eating by themselves.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Teach him to drink by gently lowering his beak, (not over the nostrils), into a small crock of water. Leave the water with him all the time. Eventually he will learn to drink. Dehydration will do that to him also.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Update
So he has been doing much better, he chirps a lot even when he's not hungry, not all the time though, and mostly when we go near him. He eats well, and we take care to never overfeed him, and to let the crop empty out completely every 24 hours as recommended. 

AndreiS, my boyfriend gave him some bread once, but i told him to stop it, we currently feed him baby bird food in the form of mash, we dip peas and corn in it, and yesterday we gave him spinach, i hope that's okay  i read on here that its good for them because of the vitamins. Additionally, i read that it might be good to introduce some grit, so i put a tiny bit, both on the floor of the box, and on his mash. As you can see on the pictures, his poop is really solid, you can point out mashed peas in it, kinda like they didn't get properly digested. I usually squish them a bit before giving them to him. I don't know if that's because he's still not fully ready to eat that sort of thing, or if its the lack of grit, if someone can explain it to us, we'd be very grateful :/ Either way, the corn seems to go down fine, as i don't see any specks of it in the poop.
Thank you very much for your insight on the diseases we should watch out for! We bought him an electric water heating pad, and he loves to sit on it, its under the striped blanket you can see on the pictures. it supposedly stays warm for eight hours.


Jay3, we try to do that, food also, but he just poops all over it ; u ; and he has shown no interest as of yet, both in water or in food placed at his level..


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is good that there is not an enteritis but droppings look a little bit too brown, which may indicate blood. Together with the undigested seed fragments, that may indicate worms. At his age, he should not be treated for that but when reaching adult size, maybe is good to give a dewormer tha will cover hairworms.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Are those packing peanuts? Please don't put something like that in with him. They are curious in learning what is edible and what isn't, and he may peck at some and eat them, which could easily cause a blockage. 
No, he doesn't need grit until he is eating seed. You are probably seeing some of the skins of the peas in his droppings as they don't digest as well.
How much are you feeding him now? And how are you feeding him?


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Nonono, its cotton! we havent put anything he can peck at except for food or water. Is cotton bad ? . ? i thought since he still shows zero interest in pecking at the ground, that he would most likely never be able to shred the cotton balls..
We feed him by putting corn, peas and some mash on top of our fingers, and letting him peck at them, he still wastes more than he eats though xD We feed him around 20 pieces each feeding. he starts to show disenterest in food when he's full, he just kinda, runs towards his "nest" and sits, which is pretty cute, and we just take the cue, although we do take care to check the crop to know if its half-full. It sems to be working fine btw, the crop.
Ok, we will stop putting grit in the mash then, thank you for telling us


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

He should not have been bird napped . The parents were likely feeding him. You did not mention reason for taking him. But it is too late I suppose to take him back.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't think you are feeding him enough. His crop should be more than half full. 
When hand feeding young ones, they may not show interest, but they still get what they need. Otherwise he will not be eating enough to maintain and grow healthy.
If you want to get enough into him, then you put it in him, rather than giving him the choice.

Also, no, cotton won't hurt him, but it isn't necessary, and it makes it harder for him to walk around. Just put newspaper or paper towels under the nest and in the rest of the box.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Whytpigeon, huh, i thought i had, sorry about that. he fell from his nest, we found him alone on the ground next to a storefront in the middle of a city avenue with constant human presence. he didn't move, he didn't react to anything, and none of the other pigeons that were around were even interacting with him, he just didn't seem like a fledgeling happily going about his life.. at the time he still had quite a lot of fuzz and was pretty thin when held, which also gave me the impression that he probably fell, as oposed to jumped down to explore. Additionally, through my readings on the subject i believed that parents couldn't recognize fallen babies as their own, that was the thought that led me to believe he had been abbandoned... we pretty much just did what seemed right at the moment. I had no intention of taking care of him, so my first reaction was to try and find a vet that would care for him. After we failed to find one, my boyfriend decided to take care of him, i just help him out. Should we have left such a young bird there? would his parents keep feeding him? these are legit questions, as i have no idea. If that is true, believe me, i will NEVER pick up any bird that isn't a nestling without a nest again.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Giorgio bird, don't be upset by those who don't read the whole thread and just jump to their own conclusions. Some are like that.
As far as your bird, you couldn't have left him in an environment like that even if the parents were feeding him. Many times the parents are still feeding the baby, and if in a safer place, it would be better to watch and check up on the baby to see if indeed he was being fed. But if in a dangerous situation, then leaving him would have been very unkind. So before people accuse you of bird napping, they should maybe find out the facts first. You couldn't have just left him there.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You did right by rescueing the little baby. Have you tried putting peas in a small bowl and leave that with him? If he's able to peck peas from your hand, then I'm sure he will be able to eat them by himself. 

The first baby pigeon I've raised on peas, actually started eating his own poo. Then I realized I'm not feeding him enough and that he's able to eat on his own. It will just be so much easier for both of you, he will know how much to eat.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

i see, thank you very much for your words  we were a bit thrown off by that post at the time, thinking we could have somehow shortened his chances by mistake.

Jay3, i'm sorry i forgot to answer you yesterday, thank you very much for the info on feeding and how to organize his box, we struggled a bit at first, the cotton was me trying to make it comfortable as at the time he didn't have a "nest" and we didn't know where he would rather sleep. Now that's not an issue and you have shed some light on the matter, we will remodel his box as per your recommendations. About his feeding, apparently he does fill his crop lately, my boyfriend told me after i made the other post. He seems to also be gaining weight lately, although we will keep monitoring just to make sure. If any day he eats less than desired we will definitely resort to your feeding method, i don't ever want to see him like he was a week ago again.. 

Marina B, we have indeed tried putting some on a tiny bowl, water too, but he just poops all over it and ignores it  it would be a gigantic relief if he started eating by himself..The odd thing is, he pecks with much more certainty now, and he can point out the pieces of food, as he pecks straight at them 7/10 times, so i guess we will keep trying to encourage the water drinking, and putting food in with him hoping for the best.

When do you you guys think he should be introduced to seeds?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

When he's able to eat peas from a bowl (or from your hand), start mixing in some small seeds as well. He will start pecking at them and once he's able to swallow some, you can add more seeds and less peas till eventually there's only seeds for him to eat. 

It might take a bit of time, but he will get the hang of it.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Giorgio_bird said:


> i see, thank you very much for your words  we were a bit thrown off by that post at the time, thinking we could have somehow shortened his chances by mistake.
> 
> Jay3, i'm sorry i forgot to answer you yesterday, thank you very much for the info on feeding and how to organize his box, we struggled a bit at first, the cotton was me trying to make it comfortable as at the time he didn't have a "nest" and we didn't know where he would rather sleep. Now that's not an issue and you have shed some light on the matter, we will remodel his box as per your recommendations. About his feeding, apparently he does fill his crop lately, my boyfriend told me after i made the other post. He seems to also be gaining weight lately, although we will keep monitoring just to make sure. If any day he eats less than desired we will definitely resort to your feeding method, i don't ever want to see him like he was a week ago again..
> 
> ...


First I don't deserve to be made out to be wrong or incorrect. The fact is most are taken when they should not be and that is just facts, nothing personal people! 
Iam sorry you did not state why you took him in the first place. Did I miss something? all I read is your boyfriend decided to keep him.

Wildlife rehabbers and veterinarians try to put the message out every spring not to bird nap baby's that are found that are featherd as the parent birds are near by. If the bird is in immediate danger then try to find a safer place close by, if that can't be done then they can be taken care of by an experienced rehabber, if not then this is the right place. I think there is no reason to go off the deep end and say "I won't ever again!" I think most understand the education enfolded here. 

Now that it is with humans it will be some weeks of care and then it will be imprinted and not afraid of humans, so there is that to think of later. Releasing or keep as a pet? Allot to think about.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Whytpigeon, hmm its not that you are the bad guy, i believe you have good intentions, maybe just, ask for details first before assuming something like that out of the blue?
in any instance, we cool mate. I said never again only because i kinda felt like **** even thinking about the possibility of having worsened his odds of survival when i thought i was at least slightly improving them. 
Yes imprinting has been on our minds since day 1, and our priority is release for sure, we have no intention of keeping him, however, we will most definetely not release unless we are confident about his odds of survival. Pidgey suggested that we slowly integrate him with the local group of pigeons, which seems like a good plan. however we will try to research a bit more before deciding on a "game plan", more suggestions are welcome of course!

Marina B, thank you for responding! today he ate from my boyfriends hand successfully  we will start to do that then, here's hoping he's one step closer to independence eating


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Giorgio_bird said:


> Whytpigeon, hmm its not that you are the bad guy, i believe you have good intentions, maybe just, ask for details first before assuming something like that out of the blue?
> in any instance, we cool mate. I said never again only because i kinda felt like **** even thinking about the possibility of having worsened his odds of survival when i thought i was at least slightly improving them.
> Yes imprinting has been on our minds since day 1, and our priority is release for sure, we have no intention of keeping him, however, we will most definetely not release unless we are confident about his odds of survival. Pidgey suggested that we slowly integrate him with the local group of pigeons, which seems like a good plan. however we will try to research a bit more before deciding on a "game plan", more suggestions are welcome of course!
> 
> Marina B, thank you for responding! today he ate from my boyfriends hand successfully  we will start to do that then, here's hoping he's one step closer to independence eating


Ha ha! No prob! I work at a veterinarian so 9 times out of 10 the good intentions 
We're not needed. So out of the blue is not usual for me. I totally understand you're situation. But this still should be mentioned for the folks who are reading you're thread. You sound quite capable of doing this the fact that he is still alive is testament to you're care. Cheers!


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Giorgio, if a baby PIGEON is on the ground before he is able to fly, his chances are close to zero as he doesn't know to eat (they learn to fly before they learn to eat), the parents don't feed them on the ground (as do the sparrows) so you did the right thing. Leaving baby birds if found on ground is recommended at some species that grow their babies on the ground, like the magpie but even at founds of such species the situation - health status, dangers in the area etc - should be evaluated and taking the bird home can be the better solution.

As for when to swich to seeds, I would say RIGHT NOW, as your pigeon seems to be older than 13 days, when they become able to eat hard food. Put seeds in front of him so that he can pick them anytime he wants and even if he doesn't want, start hand feeding him seeds as they are far more nutritive than defrosted peas. The amount that is fed at one lunch must be up to fill the crop on half. Don't forget to give water after feeding and to feed again only when the crop has emptied.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> *First I don't deserve to be made out to be wrong or incorrect. *The fact is most are taken when they should not be and that is just facts, nothing personal people!
> Iam sorry you did not state why you took him in the first place. Did I miss something? all I read is your boyfriend decided to keep him.



You were wrong and incorrect. Bird napping was not the case here, so before accusing, you should have read the thread better, or asked. 
Actually, you should apologize, not try to defend yourself. And she did state that they found him on a sidewalk in front of a store. It is there for anyone to read should others read this thread.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

How is the bird now?


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

We have a breakthrough!! He learned to eat by himself!  he still kinda expects us to feed him, so he eats more when he doesn't see us around, but he pecks the plate on his own. My boyfriend tried all afternoon yesterday until eventually, he got it  we were thinking of stoping all kinds of hand feeding at this point, is this ok? Also, is he already able to know how much is enough for himself or do we still have to monitor exact ammounts, and if so, what is that ammount? Finally, we will start mixing in a few seeds like Marina an AndreiS suggested, is it okay to give him grit at this point?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad the bird is doing well, thanks for the update. 

If he started eating by own, get some pigeon/dove seed mix for him and place in a bowl in front of him and play with it with your fingers and then pop some of seeds in his mouth by opening his beak. Once he starts eating, you can stop feeding him but keep monitoring that if he doesn't eat enough , you can handfeed him.
They know how much they have to eat so don't need to put exact amount. Just put some in a bowl.
Also, put a crock of water nearby and see if he drinks, if no you can try dipping his beak in that but not above the nostrils and let him sip in. He will learn in a few times.
For grit, get some from pigeon store or order online (different grits are available in market like red grit, oyester shell grit, charcoal grit )and place in a separate bowl(not along with seed), he will eat when need be.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is eating seed then it is important that you teach him how to drink on his own, or he will get blocked with seed. I would still continue the feedings, even if just at the end of the day to make sure he is getting enough. Also gives him liquid in the hand feeding in case he isn't drinking. I would feed for several more days at the end of day, then you can stop.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> You were wrong and incorrect. Bird napping was not the case here, so before accusing, you should have read the thread better, or asked.
> Actually, you should apologize, not try to defend yourself. And she did state that they found him on a sidewalk in front of a store. It is there for anyone to read should others read this thread.


I did not see that as a reason to take it ,at the time, the fact is the message is there for anyone who did take a fledgling without needing too and Iam proud of that. So please take your prejudice elsewhere, I don't need a thread police bully telling me what to post. And it won't make a difference so it's wasted time. Hopefully you will stop targeting my post and move on. It's getting tiresome.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

There's an important matter I wanted to know more about... Are pigeons likely to get imprinted to specific people? Or any hand that feeds them? Giorgio tends to follow my hand everywhere, even if has to climb me. However, entering vacation with my family to long distance place (of which I was even considering not going because of Giorgio Bird), my cousin's family offered to help out and take care of the pigeon while I'm out. 

Will Giorgio refuse the company of other people? It's temporary, only for a few days, but I'm afraid he might resist. Thought he is getting more independent.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> I did not see that as a reason to take it ,at the time, the fact is the message is there for anyone who did take a fledgling without needing too and Iam proud of that. So please take your prejudice elsewhere, I don't need a thread police bully telling me what to post. And it won't make a difference so it's wasted time. Hopefully you will stop targeting my post and move on. It's getting tiresome.



This was your post. You were referring to this bird. Not to others who might find a bird. Not sure why being found at a store front, seems like a safe place to leave him. Not targeting your post at all. You answer me...........I answer you. 

Whytpigeon Whytpigeon is offline
Senior Bird

Join Date: Sep 2015
Country: United States
Location: Eastern mid Atlantic
Posts: 362
*He should not have been bird napped . The parents were likely feeding him. You did not mention reason for taking him. But it is too late I suppose to take him back.*
__________________
Ps: this post is given with concern and love for pigeons and the people who care for them. In no way do I know more than what my experience has brought me. So I give my advice with love not hostility.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*We have all not clearly read or missed information from time to time, it happens.

Let's keep this discussion on topic and move on. *


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

I just came back from vacation and went to take Giorgio from my cousins' house...

And I have a feeling he's overfed ;( He's crop is too full, to the point his voices is lower. I was told by many people it doesnt matter the quantity we put in, since the pidgeon will only eat the food he needs. But I have a feeling this physically affected him. I'm going to wait until his crop is empty to see if there's any changes. However, he's been full for hours now, could it be that he's so full that his digestion takes longer?

Please, I need to know if there's anything I can do isntead of just waiting, I'm afraid he can get sick


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he wasn't hand fed, and he ate it himself, then he will be fine.They pretty much know how much to eat. If they over eat a little, they will be alright.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

OH thank you. Sorry for the worry. I also realized when the crop was empty that he started growing certain muscles so now he's bulkier, becoming like a grown pigeon.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Hello again. I forgot to say, but two days ago Giorgio started flying! Well, more like, he jumps around and lands safely. SO the cardboard box didn't do it no more, and I finished building the cage in the morning. It's pretty big, he's got enought space in there and I moved all the contents in the box.

He's now almost fulltime in there, is this a good thing? I thought it was since now he can stay outside and catch sun and air without being target of cats (there's a lot of them here). However, I decided for him to stay there during the night also. I heat up a pillow so he has the opportunity to stay warm during the night, however, I thought it was important for him to learn to spend the night outside alone, since that'll be part of his routine once I release him.


Also he eats seeds and grit! Pecks em right of the ground! I also think he drinks water, I see him pecking very occasionally, thought I never know for sure when the bowl turns out empty if he drank it or if he simply spilled it...

I plan on releasing him when I'm sure he knows how to drink water, escape from danger and has all the feathers bellow the wing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you put the water in a bowl that cannot be spilled? 
Can you post a picture of his set up?
He can't just be released like that, or he will not know how to survive in the wild, as he has been raised by you. He isn't part of a flock, which he needs to be in order to be safe. And he will not know how to find food and water, or avoid predators. These are all things young pigeons learn from their parents and flock as they grow up. He could be soft released into a flock, but that takes time. He can't survive for long being on his own. Bring him to where they hang out, letting him get used to them and they to him, while still in a cage to be safe. He needs to learn that when they take off in alarm of danger, that he does also with them. Some things he needs to learn first. Just releasing him, he probably will not survive.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Did this bird become human imprinted, meaning he regards you as his mom/dad and tries to follow you everywhere? If so, I won't release him. If you have the space, you can build him a nice aviary outside and get him a mate later on.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Oh sorry you didn't understand me! There's a place with a bunch of pigeons outside of my house. I was thinking of letting him be accustomed with the rest of them, little by little. I will only release him one he can do all a normal pigeon can. 

As for the photos, I'll see when I can take them and put them here.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Sorry if the photo doesnt reveal much... There are blankets, food, water in there. It's in my room because today was raining intensely, so he couldnt be outside. But now it stopped and its sligthly warmer. He's been sleeping outside for a while and there had been no problem, should I keep doing this so he gets used to being outside? I guarantee that the cage has enought blankets to heat him up (and even a heat pillow if needed). My girlfriend's just a bit worried because today is kinda windy and a bit chilly, she asks if it's bad that he's outside on this kind of weather, even with a blanket and sheet covering most of the cage.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think he is too young and not ready to be put outside yet. What are the temps there like now?


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Temperature at night is about 11 degrees celsius.

Also, It seems like he still doesn't drink water :/ I tried a lot times, sometimes taky very long, to get him to drink water, but he ever barely does. I don't know what to do about this, it seems like it's affecting his digestion because his crop remains full for longer. The only way around this I've use is putting his food a little into the water. But I don't truly know how to solve this... the pigeons I see on Youtube seem to learn how to drink water very easily, I don't know what to do about this aspect with Giorgio.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pleas don't put his food in water. It won't help anyway.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The fact that food remains in crop over night indicates digestive disease(s). It surely is a slow crop, that if not treated will lead to complete blockage and death. 

And there is something that caused the slow crop and in most causes I met is an enteritis caused by coccidia. So there likely are problems at crop and perhaps at small intestine too:














For the slow crop, as most likely implies candida, I would recommend to give a sour solution of water with vinegar. Massage genlty the lower part of the crop before giving the soured watyer. The way of preparing and giving this solution is shown in this video that I made this night for you and others meeting this problem:


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Have you got one of those plastic trays for flowerpots, one that's about 3 cm deep? If so, fill that up with water, just put a couple of seeds in there that will float on top of the water. Wait till he's real hungry when you do this. Sometimes they get curious and will start pecking at the seeds and then discover the water is something to drink.

You can also play with the water using your fingers and hopefully he will get in there and start drinking.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please don't try to put a tube down his throat without a knowledgeable person showing you in person. That tube in the video would scrape his throat anyway. It hasn't been rounded off at the end and smoothed. If you do it wrong and go down the wrong way, the bird will aspirate and die. 
If he doesn't drink then gently dip his beak into some tepid water in a small crock, but not over his nostrils. Keep doing this and he will learn. 

I just reread your comment and you have said that he does drink, just not much. He probably does drink what he needs. His crop being slow could indicate that you are giving too much food, or that he isn't warm enough, or what is being fed. 
Candida is not the only thing that can slow a crop, as often it is canker. Then the candida is secondary, from the contents of the crop just sitting there for so long.
How much are you giving, and how long is it taking to empty?


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

I dont know for sure. It empties over night... 

And thank you for the video feedback Andrei S! I appreciate and if he get's sick I'll consider the water and vinegar solution.

I thought the slow crop was due to dehydration, and I've seen him drink a few times, that's true. But I no longer see the water emptying over long doses of time...


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Some weeks went by and I can say Giorgio is almost fully grown! He has nearly all his feathers and his voice is starting to change. However, some of his behaviors have changed and I'd like to know if that is normal and about some issues.

Giorgio has been eating less. I mean, he still eats, but it's been about a week since I've seen him with the crop full. I did what i was told and I pout the food in a little plate where he eats it from. I still see a chunk of difference after he ate than when I put the food in, but only after a while, he's been a lot slower eating.

How do I go about flying? I've been helping him practice by allowing him to go around the house. He normally goes to my hand and then with a gesture I wave my arm up so he leaves it and starts flying. He mostly doesnt fly on his own, this is, he does not go from a place to another. It's more about whether he needs to land or not.

How do I introduce to other pigeons? I know, I've been told to put him in a little cage to see how the other pidgeys react. But what should I expect? And what do I do if he's initially rejected? I don't even know how soon I should try to do this.


Thank you for your continued support! I'm very happy Giorgio has grown to be a beautiful bird! I believe it'll be hard to separate from him as he still has some baby qualities to him, has he goes directly to my hand as if he was desperate for food (he puts his beak between by fingers, I believe he confuses it by a parent's beak). He also normally climbs my arm up my shoulder and stays there and let's me walk around like nothing happened lol.

Anyway, sorry for not being posting lately. You have helped me a lot and I've been apllying all the knowledge daily. I've been too busy to talk about each update but hopefully these are probably the most important questions for the moment.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is he eating entirely on his own now?


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

He has been for a while. But before when I put the plate with the food he would go there fast and eat almost everything till his crop was full. Now he only pecks a few times and goes back. Then he comes back and pecks a few times more. But here never gets his crop actually full. 

Today, after the night, he had nearly all the food I left him there... I believe he is only eating the top seeds and then stops. I noticed that for some reason hes letting the food fall from his beak far easier.


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## RamseyRingnecks (Jun 18, 2013)

Giorgio_bird said:


> Some weeks went by and I can say Giorgio is almost fully grown! He has nearly all his feathers and his voice is starting to change. However, some of his behaviors have changed and I'd like to know if that is normal and about some issues.
> 
> Giorgio has been eating less. I mean, he still eats, but it's been about a week since I've seen him with the crop full. I did what i was told and I pout the food in a little plate where he eats it from. I still see a chunk of difference after he ate than when I put the food in, but only after a while, he's been a lot slower eating.
> 
> ...


Once they are past squeakerhood, most pigeons don't fill their crops completely, just like humans don't fill our bellies to bursting with every meal.

Baby pigeons between weaning and 12 weeks are the heaviest they will ever be, outweighing their parents more often than not. As they mature, they will eat less in a single sitting, but develop the habit of having multiple sittings a day.

Pigeons raised by their parents are weaned through being more and more frequently ignored when they beg, which forces them to self feed a lot faster than their natural curiosity and the instinct to peck at seed shaped things will when there is always formula at their beckon call.
There is no safe way around this for humans that have to hand rear.

Peeps will continue to beg as long as you continue to respond.

Peeps raised around humans normally like to hang out on their shoulders. Shoulders are comfortable and soft, and there is a jaw just perfect to cuddle under and feel secure.

You can introduce him, if you keep in mind that a pigeon raised by humans has no idea how to pigeon. They learn socially, so there will be culture shock.

The adult pigeons will be less tolerant at first of a peep that, from their perspective, ignores boundaries, invades their space, and goes out of its way to harass them. 

You can get around this a few ways. 

If the peeper has somewhere it can go that the adult birds can't, he can escape retribution with out needing to be rescued. As he learns how to behave from the flock, he'll get in less trouble and need to hide less often until he stops needing to hide at all.

If you can set up an enclosure where he can see the other pigeons and they can see him, he can begin to learn by watching them and they can get used to his presence.

There will still be a "show 'im who's boss" initial squabble, but once his place is established, that will pretty much be the end of it.

But if you like having him in the house with you, he can be trained to obey what ever house rules you set forth, provided that you are consistent about enforcing them.


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

RamseyRingnecks said:


> Once they are past squeakerhood, most pigeons don't fill their crops completely, just like humans don't fill our bellies to bursting with every meal.
> 
> Baby pigeons between weaning and 12 weeks are the heaviest they will ever be, outweighing their parents more often than not. As they mature, they will eat less in a single sitting, but develop the habit of having multiple sittings a day.
> 
> ...


First off, thank you for such an elaborate response! And I'm quite relieved this behaviour of his isn't out of norm!

Yes, he does seem to eat less but more frequently. What bothers me is how he's showing difficulty to swallow the food he pecks. He often lets seeds and peas fall, sometimes he pecks back for another chance but other times he tends to ignore the ones that fell. Does this mean lack of energy? Or is e simply not hungry enough to try again?

As for him being amongst othe pigeons, well, I of course feared he wouldn't be able to act like one right away, but it's to be expect, I guess. I'm thinking of buying a smaller cage, so I can put him in a place around a flock, so he can observe them. And then test theis behaviour with him by putting the cage next to the flock. I believe Giorgio is a bit slow, as he took more time to grow all his feathers than a normal pigeon, and only sometimes drinks water on his own, but with time he'll behave like one. This will have to happen, because even though I like him alot, there's no way I can conveniently keep him. Plus, I always believed that the domain for birds is the sky, I wouldn't like to keep him around the house if that means him not experiencing full freedom.

I must also add that Giorgio was shaking today. I thought he was feeling cold from staying outside when it's windy. Being afraid of what it could be, I decided to heat him up and let him stay inside for the night. It wasn't really that cold, could this actually be a sign of a disease?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They all learn to eat like that. He is testing different seeds and different sizes. He will eat what he likes the feel of. 
As far as his shaking, not sure what that is. But he shouldn't be left outside in a cage anyway. He needs someway to get out of the wind and weather. A cage gives him no protection.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*EXPLANATION OF DECREASE IN FOOD CONSUMPTION (IF BIRD IS HEALTHY)

ONCE THEY ARE FULL GROWN THEY DON'T EAT AS MUCH, ONLY ABOUT A TABLESPOON OF SEED PER MEAL.When they are growing they are laying down new cells by the ton and therefore the need for much more food, also they need it for fueling the growth, and that is why they eat so much more then when fully grown.

It takes quite aLot of FOOD (to grow and lay down new cells) to get from that tiny hatchling to full grown pigeon in 4 weeks.*


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## Giorgio_bird (Mar 14, 2016)

Thank you all for the support and information!

I can say that Giorgio is a grown bird, eats well, and already flies (though we don't know the full range).

Today I tried to make him observe other pigeons. I got to the park where there were hundreds of them, I put Giorgio in a corner to he could observe them (he was close enough). I noticed all the pigeons got away from him, I don't know if it's because of the cage that might look strange to them, but even after a while they didn't get close or interact with Giorgio. As for Giorgio, I don't know if he's actually learning anything by watching the flock.

I'm doing this little by little, but how do I know if there's progress?


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