# how do you find a good racing homer



## pigeongirl06 (Mar 22, 2006)

when im going to purchase a racing homer i have a hard time trying to figure out what to look for in the bird. like how to tell if it has a good body structure, the beak, eye, feathers. 

how does one tell if a racing homer is a good flyer without beleiving what the seller is saying?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Hello,

I think that you will probably get 100 different answers from 100 different people on this one. The problem is that everyone knows what *they* like, and at least to some extent, this could be considered the most important thing to look for. No matter how the bird ends up as a performer or breeder, you are still going to have to clean up after them all year long so you really ought to have birds that are appealing to you. This, of course, is just my very humble oppinion. Everyone has their system for evaluating birds. Some swear by system "x" while others say that system "X" is a bunch bologna and system "y" is the only way to go. In the end, what makes sense to you? Does this system or that system make any kind of biological sense to you? Don't be affraid to research and try to find the answers for yourself. I really don't feel anybody is really that much smarter than anyone else, some are just more comfortable in their experience. Maybe too comfortable (some might say).

As far as believing what the seller is telling you, the bottom line is that in the end, they can tell you anything they want to tell you. They can put anything on the pedigree they want to. They can claim anything they want to claim and you really have no way of knowing if they are being truthful or not. In my book it all comes down to trust. My advise would be to take the time to get to know the person, talk to people they have done business with in the past, are they willing to take the time to answer your questions, do they seem to have a genuine interest in the well being of their birds as well as you. In the end, you are just going to have to trust that person to give you the best value for your dollar, whether it is $5 or $50,000, the commitment to the sport and to fellow pigeon enthusiasts should be evident in their manner and thought.

Another thing to keep in the back of your mind is that there are no guarentees in anything having to do with genetics. There have been loads of cases where people were given what was considered to be trash by someone else that turned out to be world beaters as well as people spending 6 figures on a bird with a pedigree that is as long as your arm that never amounted to anything. As long as you go into it understanding that, at least to some extent, it is really a crap shoot you won't be disappointed. One can certainly increase the odds by purchasing from an established, reputable breeder. Whether they are at the local, national, or international level, both champions and duds can be found. In a lot of ways I think the attitude you bring to the purchase will help determine the success or failure of the transaction. Go into it thinking that this purchase is going to be a quick fix and you are much more likely to be disappointed. Go into it thinking that this bird might be something to help build your loft in the long run and you give yourself more options for success.

If you take the time to choose your mentor/breeder/supplier carefully, it should be an enjoyable experience for all involved. Now, how's that for a mile long answer that probably never answered the initial question!! 

Hope it helps...at least some?

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*One More Thing*

After re-reading my post there is one more thing that might be of help to you. I am providing this link to an article that really changed my point of view regarding a lot of what you ask. 

I stumbled on this site after many months of research trying to get information on the best ways to breed and race pigeons. This was the first thing I found that really made sense to me. I have subsequently read all of the articles Silvio has on his site and I have been fortunate enough to talk to him at some length on the phone. As he has said to me in person and in this article, "what do you want...steak or sizzle?". This is a question you will have to answer for yourself.

If you find this to be informative, check out the rest of the articles he has compiled. They were really eye openning for me, but as he says, read everything critically, including his stuff. I hope this article helps you as much as it has helped me.

Enjoy,

Dan

http://www.silvio-co.com/pigeons/breeding.htm


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

PIGEONGIRL106,Find out who the best flyer is in your area (club) see if he will raise a round of late hatches tell him that you are willing to pay for them.Take these young birds and train them out to 40 or 50 miles. DON'T FLY YOUNG BIRDS WITH THESE BIRDS get them ready for old birds next year.Some of these birds will be better then the rest,from these birds you can learn what good birds feel like.What I am saying is the good racers will look and feel better then the rest its something that one learns over time.Yes there are those that will tell you feel for this or that,check out is or that,look for this or that.Keep good records of your birds,when you go out to the loft always take a note pad and pencil with you, record every thing you see that you think may be inportant.All these things will help you understand your birds and what to look for when aquiring a bird.There are no short cuts its a learning process that takes time...............................GEORGE


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

the advice I always read is to buy the best birds you can afford and cull by the basket. I used the cull word again. Buy or aquire birds from the best in your area. Raise some youngsters and fly them. Breed from the best off of these youngsters. sell the birds that are not the best. 
If you tell us where you live we can help you find good fliers in your area. The AU is also a nice place to look. You may find a loft that is willing to help you without breaking the bank. Good pigeons come in all shapes and sizes. I remember reading an article that said find the physical traits you like in birds that are the best fliers in your area. If they are good birds that you like to look at then you are better off. I enjoy looking at birds from racers like Jos Thone and Marcel Sangers. These are perfect specimens that win big in Europe. I think stock sense is easiest when you start with good birds both pysically and by their pedigree. 
Randy


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## pigeongirl06 (Mar 22, 2006)

i live in minnesota.

these are all very important and helpful advices you all have given me. i guess it all just takes practice and time.its very hard to meet pigeon people and be able to visit their lofts without them trusting me to visit because of all the bad things that happen it is hard to trust other people you dont know very well. but if you guys could help me locate a club in mn than i really appreciate it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

hillfamilyloft said:


> the advice I always read is to buy the best birds you can afford and cull by the basket. I used the cull word again. Buy or aquire birds from the best in your area. Raise some youngsters and fly them. Breed from the best off of these youngsters. sell the birds that are not the best.
> Randy


Randy .. just to clarify .. when you say "cull by the basket" are you saying that this means to sell those that don't perform to your expectations or are you saying send 'em out because you know they won't or can't make it home. I'm not trying to start anything here, but I've been told by a couple of experienced pigeon racing people that the latter is what this term "cull by the basket" means. I'm willing to learn.

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> Randy .. just to clarify .. when you say "cull by the basket" are you saying that this means to sell those that don't perform to your expectations or are you saying send 'em out because you know they won't or can't make it home. I'm not trying to start anything here, but I've been told by a couple of experienced pigeon racing people that the latter is what this term "cull by the basket" means. I'm willing to learn.
> Terry


Terry,

The subject of "culling" was brought up before, on the following thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15979

However, at that time "cull by basket" was not mentioned. 



Please DO explain, Randy.

Thanks


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

PIGEONGIRL106, Where in Minnesota we need to know a city or town,so that we can locate a club for you............GEORGE


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## pigeongirl06 (Mar 22, 2006)

i live in st.paul, but any clubs that are about 30-45 mintues away from the twin cities is fine too.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

PIGEONGIRL106, I am checking the list of flyers in Mimnnisesota. I am looking for a lady flyer to put you in contact with, and it seens I can't find one in ST. PAUL.The ones that I do find,are in places like Montevideo,Eaglebend,West Union,is your area code (651) let me know your area code if it different...............GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

PIGEONGIRL106, I have made contact with a pigeon flyer in ST. PAUL, he said that he would be happy to talk to you he wants your phone number so he can call you. He told me that there have been quite a few robbies of pigeons in ST. PAUL,that's why he wants your numbrer this way he feels secure.He is an older gentleman,he has been flying racers for many years.So if you can send me a PM private message with your number and I will pass it on to him. GEORGE


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

when I mention cull by the basket, I do not mean kill the birds that do not perform well or send birds that are not ready to race. My birds are all from top notch bloodlines that win futruities. I feel that my culls per say are better than many fliers birds. Sending these birds that have been trained and are in shape is not sending them to their doom. When I say cull by the basket, I say take the birds with the best race results and use them to breed from. The way I breed is back into their line of birds or line breeding. 
Personally, I am developing a Janssen based family based on the best of Vic Miller down from Verbart 46, Jos Thone, Piet Valk, Calia, Direct Janssen and assorted birds that most do not know are down from Janssen birds. These include Van Reet Pigeons. I have Bob Kenny blood and birds down from Klak birds. I have added Engels blood to this Janssen mix.
The basis for these birds is Janssen with the majority of the mix Vic Miller. 
I fly these birds and breed from the best fliers. The rest are given away or sold. Yes some are lost in races and training, wires, preditors and illnesses. These are the birds that will not carry on in my loft. 
The culls I give away may be a grandson of Mike Ganus's Ikon or Magic Star, or a grandson of the Miller Cock or Den Dikkie. Its Grandparents may be direct Janssen birds via Mike Ganus. These birds still exit my loft. You see birds with like pedigrees going for 100s of dollars on Ipigeon or at auctions. Still they are not the best in my loft. They are giveaways.
Most of the great Belgium or NL fliers cull their birds. They cull much less humane than I do. My birds relocate to other lofts, theirs find the dumpsters. I am honest with those who I give birds. Want a crummy flier with a great pedigree, give me a call, I have a few. Want a young bird kit out to test against your club birds, give me a call. I sent 15 birds to Albuquerque NM to race with a club free of charge. This gives me feedback on the birds and gives fliers in their club quality birds. 
Randy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Randy,

Thank you very much for your response. I have been out of town for a few days and am just now seeing your post. Also, thank you very much for your non-lethal culling methods and for your honesty to the folks receiving these birds. 

Terry


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

For those new to racing, do not always think that the best racers make the best breeders. The brothers and sisters of great racers also carry winning genes of the parents. If you cannot aford the winners buy the parents or brothers and sisters of the winner. I try and not fill my loft with birds that are not desirable in conformation and pedigree. This makes it much easier to give birds away that you deem not worthy of the loft. I look at birds in auctions that I would not spend a dime on, going for big money. My advice would be to find someone with great birds that can help you out. I stocked my loft with young birds from a local flier. He did not fly youngbird races and had a team of birds that he hand picked me the best. He flies futurities and does very well. I was able to track results of their brothers and sisters in the futurites. I have two sisters to the 9th place bird in the Vegas Crap Shoot and a brother of the 2nd place bird in the Spirit of Colorado 200 mile race. Performance and pedigree via brothers and sisters of quality racers. He also bread me late hatches off his Ganus and Vic Miller Birds. So that being said when I cull my crop, I am giving away birds that comperable to birds going for hundreds of dollars in the auctions. My top few select birds go to the breeding loft, the rest fly old birds or go to newbees who need a good start.
In my few years of raising birds, I have only killed one bird. He hit a tree and fell into the yard and the dog got him. By the time I could get him from the dog he was in really bad shape. His wing was ripped off and all his tail feathers were gone. He was bleeding out the mouth and eyes. I thought it my duty to stop his suffering. Who knows the birds I give away may breed winners. Many of top fliers in Belgium have sold the golden egg. Many of my birds are decendents of the Verbart 46 the best bird Klak ever bread. He was sold as a youngbird to Piet Verbart. Klaks cull was Verbarts winner. 
Randy


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## pigeongirl06 (Mar 22, 2006)

what are pedigrees for besides to show the lines of winners the bird came from? is there anything else that i need to understand it when im reading it?

why do the best racers not able to breed and only useful for racing? arent the breeders also good racers? how does this work?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*Confused?!*

Hi,

It all has to do with genetics and how genes are concentrated and/or dispursed from one generation to the next. Terms like homozygosity and heterozygosity are words that carry a lot of meaning and importance when it comes to a particular bird's ability or prepensity to replicate the same characteristics that it has. It just isn't as simple as the best racers make the best breeders.

Warren Smith has a great article on his website that explains this. Try this link:

http://www.smithfamilyloft.com/Genetics1.htm

I hope this answers some questions for you. I know it is a lot of info, but if you digest it slowly it will begin to make sense.

Hope It Helps

Dan


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