# Strange incubating position



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

One of my pairs have eggs but strangely they aren't sitting over them. Either the hen or the cock is sort of standing over the eggs. What is this strange posture that they are adopting? They have a disposable nest bowl made of paper with river sand in the base. Pl someone tell me whats wrong here?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Do they have a complete clutch means two eggs?
They maybe doing so in your presence and after your gone they might be setting on eggs correctly?

Why you use sand as nesting material?


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Why would they want to fool me? Infact my wife and daughters (i'm not there). I picked up the idea of using river sand from one of Dr Boney's replies in another thread where he had a pic of his breeding set-up which contained plastic containers in all the boxes and he mentioned the use of river sand. This way even if they stepped on the edges of the nest box it doesn't flip over and they haven't built a nest - not a single twig. So far they have only one egg which was laid or found by us yesterday morning. 

P.S. : this was the pair from which the cock bird flew away last time - you remember i had a separate thread going regarding this? Looks like I'm not having too much luck with them.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Experienced birds don't start up incubation until 2nd egg is laid. They will hover over the first egg to protect it. They will start incubation when the hen lays 2nd egg. Don't worry bud you'll be lucky. And when you get lucky you'll want them to stop...heee!!!

If you wanna use sand in nestboxes you must use nesting materials over it. Sand and sawdust is not ideal to be used inside nests. They can get into baby bird's eyes,nostril etc. when they're tiny. I'm sure you won't want that happening to your baby birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Brocky is right in that you also should be using nesting materials. It gives them something to grab onto with their feet to avoid getting splayed legs.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Last time this pair had a wonderful nest with so much of wood in it but strangely this time it never bothered to build one though ample nesting material was available. When i get a chance i will throw in some twigs. Thanks Jay.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Jass... okay, so they are just protecting the egg now. Just can't wait to see the day when i'll be pleading with them to stop producing new ones I will shoo them away and build a nest inside the bowl.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

no.. don't shoo away just add a small amount of hay or sand or something when they are eating. 

if you don't want their eggs to hatch then use fake ones. also dont be so noisy to them, it could make them nervouse or not do their job as well . it is normal for the hen to hover over the first egg, they start incubation (sitting on the eggs giving them heat) when the second is layed. only then is when development of the egg if fertile starts. not before.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Got it spirit wings. Will heed your advice. Thanks.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I would put straw,dried grass,thin stick etc there. I think they will try to build a nest on their own. Mine don't build impressive ones though.
Ananth,in eastern part of our country where it stays wet they use ash in nestbowls so to make nests porous and absorb wetness. But they do use nesting materials over the ash so that it doesn't harm the birds.
Ash doesn't have anything in it to support life so bugs and germs can't breed in it unlike sand in which bugs lay eggs. I've experienced it so suggesting you. There is also an article on net by Dr.Colin Walker of Australian Pigeon Company which tells about how sand can not only be uncomfortable to birds but transmit worms and diseases too. I tried to find that article but... I will try again. You may also give it a try,maybe you could fine sooner than me cuz I do net things from phone. I just can't sit by computer for long


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

My idea to use sand was mainly to balance the nest bowl when they step on the edges and prevent eggs from getting tossed. I have few plastic containers which are also very light weight. I'll replace them this sunday before the other pairs start to lay. I'll figure out something to prevent the eggs from flipping. They are supposed to have best levels of comfort. Yes, the chances of worms breeding in there exists.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Here where I live earthen pottery is hard to get. And they sell it for huge prices. But I think you there can buy earthen pots to be used as nestbowls. They're heavy and don't tip over when pigeons step on the edge. There are also feeders bowls for cats/dogs which can be used as nesting bowls. They have flat bottom so don't tip over.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Sure. Lemme try.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

My I suggest since you have a system that doesn;t tip and previously you said you could not find a heavier alternative, that you keep the sand but create a barrier between the sand and the birds.

Perhaps put another layer of paper over everything, covering the sand, and then put twigs (I love tabacco sticks but don;t know what you will find locally) ontop.

I do not like straw. I think you are just as likely to get bugs from straw as from sand.

Jass do you think if he puts paper over the sand it will stop the problem of bugs in the sand??


Or would baking the sand sterilize it?

I use fine grit at the bottom, the kind made for the bottom of bird cages, its like sand in texture, not sure if you will find in a pet shop, prob in a canary or parrot section. Its good to soak up any moisture. I have the tabacco on top.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Sterilizing the sand should be a good idea. It was meant to prevent the nest bowl from flipping as well as eliminate the necessity of an actual nest. Considering all other facts it is evident that nesting material must be present whether or not sand is used. Lemme just find out the best alternative. I don't think mrs will be obliging enough to permit use of kitchen to bake sand


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

it does not have to be complicated. if they have bricks in india then you can use those too, two bricks set to make a square with the back corner of a square nest box, basically you set one brick long ways back to front then another side to side meeting the corner of the other brick to make a square spot with the nest box being the fourth corner in the back, put sand or dried grasses in the area that holds the materials in. viola..nest "bowl" or spot.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Wow.... what an idea? Its just that simple..... great and thanks spirit wings ☺


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Wow.... what an idea? Its just that simple..... great and thanks spirit wings ☺


sure, their ancestors made "nests" and layed eggs and incubated and raised young on cliff ledges and holes from the beginning. a nest box with two bricks is like moving up to the penthouse!.. lol..


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Lol...😀 hope they don't end up asking me to start incubating next??? 😎


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

ThePigeonGene said:


> My I suggest since you have a system that doesn;t tip and previously you said you could not find a heavier alternative, that you keep the sand but create a barrier between the sand and the birds.
> 
> Perhaps put another layer of paper over everything, covering the sand, and then put twigs (I love tabacco sticks but don;t know what you will find locally) ontop.
> 
> ...


If one cleans the nests regularly(sand too),then it won't be a problem. Bugs can thrive under covered things. Also external parasites can hide in such places. They hide in day time and come out to suck blood at night


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Yep, it'd be impossible to determine that if at all it happens. While filling with sand i scanned it to ensure there were no bugs but if it contained anything invisible to the naked eye then they probably are having a nice time already😱


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

With bricks it will be inconvenient to clean the nest daily when young hatch out. Nest bowls are better IMO. Just pull the bowls out, scrape a little and turn it over and they're good to go in there again with new materials. With bowls you need lesser nesting materials too.
And with nestbowls whole nest box can be scraped out clean too


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

My god, Jass you just wrote that it'd be inconvenient to clean the nest bowl DAILY? DAILY? You mean this has to done daily? Well what if i can't do that? What'd happen if they are cleaned once a week? (Which is only possible with me)


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jass SamOplay said:


> With bricks it will be inconvenient to clean the nest daily when young hatch out. Nest bowls are better IMO. Just pull the bowls out, scrape a little and turn it over and they're good to go in there again with new materials. With bowls you need lesser nesting materials too.
> And with nestbowls whole nest box can be scraped out clean too


Well how about putting one of the paper nest bowls inside the brick nest?? They should not be able to flip over that way.

But it shouldn't be so hard to clean either imp. Just remove the babies, remove the front brick, and scrape everything out, replace the brick and put more nesting material.

Actually I quite like the idea of the bricks


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

A paper nest bowl held firmly by bricks ...... yes, again a good idea. 👍


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> One of my pairs have eggs but strangely they aren't sitting over them. Either the hen or the cock is sort of standing over the eggs. What is this strange posture that they are adopting? They have a disposable nest bowl made of paper with river sand in the base. Pl someone tell me whats wrong here?


just a guess here, i think it's the ink on the newspaper...you see when they set on the eggs, the eggs absorb the parent's "sweat"... that ink on the newspaper getting wet may be offensive to the parents, and harmful to the health of the shell ...the unhatched chick, absorbs whatever is around the egg through he shell....

suggest you remove the newspaper and put white paper towels in their stead and i'll bet the parents will then set on the eggs! This is what i would do...you don't want that newspaper ink on the egg shell...plus, you can change the paper towels very easily, keeping the nest clean...my homers do not poop in their nest, they leave the nest for a second when they expel their droppings, they naturally keep their nest clean.....i also use white towels, hand towels that i throw in the washing machine and re-use..either one works well at absorbing and maintaining heat which is what is needed. i also use a plastic baking pan (oblong or square) and put the towels in the bottom....the oblong pan gives me enough room to put a small bowl of food in the nest...i got the idea to do this when i saw mom hording seeds in the nest to snack on while setting!


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks LeeLu for the info. Whether or not the ink is bothering them its definitely harmful. Its better to switch over to fabric or paper tissues.

Whats surprises me most is mom hoarding seeds to snack on later? Bizzare!!!&#55357;&#56833;

I will update the status tomorrow before changing the setup. I hope the hen would have laid another egg by now and proper incubation has started.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Also admire that your homers keep the nest clean by pooping outside the nest box. Wish my birds would do that ...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> My god, Jass you just wrote that it'd be inconvenient to clean the nest bowl DAILY? DAILY? You mean this has to done daily? Well what if i can't do that? What'd happen if they are cleaned once a week? (Which is only possible with me)


Cleaning plays an important part in pigeon keeping. More you clean,healthier the birds stay. Because most ailments,worms,virus etc transmit via droppings. It does not take much time to scarpe off droppings if you do it daily. Then droppings won't pile up. Well,I love my pigeons like children and it gives me immense satisfaction when I clean for my pigeons.... for them to sleep in clean environment throught night.
Most fanciers scrape the droppings off daily.
With this much mess they make,its necessary to scrape clean the nest daily. Here the pic of the mess in 16 hours. And its a paper nest handmade by me


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

ThePigeonGene said:


> Well how about putting one of the paper nest bowls inside the brick nest?? They should not be able to flip over that way.
> 
> But it shouldn't be so hard to clean either imp. Just remove the babies, remove the front brick, and scrape everything out, replace the brick and put more nesting material.
> 
> Actually I quite like the idea of the bricks


Yes you're true it will be good to use bricks if nest bowl tips over!
But I don't need them,actually. I make such sort of paper nest that don't tip over so I don't need bricks. As we all know pigeons drink more water when breeding and ofcourse give more water to squabs in turn. When squabs pass out water with droppings it gets underneath the bricks. Bricks prevent evaporation from underneath them and it starts to stay wet/damp underneath them. I've used bricks previously.
So I put nothing else but my handmade paper nest in the box so box can be scraped clean. Here's a pic


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Beautiful birds you have there? Are these tipplers? 

I used the disposable paper nest bowl which i made as per instructions in your album. I used the least amount of paper. Maybe i should add more and make them sturdier. 

As i get to spend only the weekends at home i clean my simple loft every sunday. Otherwise our maid cleans the brick tiled floor of our aviary twice every week. With ample sun and wind in my setup the whole area remains dry. But as per earlier discussions i plan to partition the aviary in the middle with a simple wooden structure so that the loft part of it is covered on all 4 sides.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jass SamOplay said:


> With bricks it will be inconvenient to clean the nest daily when young hatch out. Nest bowls are better IMO. Just pull the bowls out, scrape a little and turn it over and they're good to go in there again with new materials. With bowls you need lesser nesting materials too.
> And with nestbowls whole nest box can be scraped out clean too



Actually, the bricks are a great idea. And it's a lot more natural. Pigeons don't use bowls in nature. They probably like the bricks better. And it isn't any harder to clean. How hard is it to move a brick? And the nest doesn't have to be cleaned daily either. Every few days would be fine, and if he can't do it but once a week, won't hurt anything. Okay to give your opinion, but why say anothers idea won't work? There is no right or wrong way, and many different ways of doing things. And cleaning every day would only irritate the parents. 
Thepigeongenes idea of having the bricks support the bowl is also a good one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you use enough straw for the nest, and clean every few days, nothing is going to go under the bricks. It stays in the straw that you remove every few days. If yours went under the bricks, then perhaps you didn't use enough nesting material.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

👍👍👍👍👍..............


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Also admire that your homers keep the nest clean by pooping outside the nest box. Wish my birds would do that ...


Thanks ananth...you know, mine live inside with me...i clean their room daily, and through the day, i pick up after them...i am retired so i have the luxuary of being with them, and i truly love them like my family....anyways, there is a bathroom off their room which is convenient for cleaning their room...and i use it ...let me tell you homers are smart...they've figured out what the bathroom is for....i am finding their droppings on the bathroom floor, and i am finding their droppings in the commode and in the sink....i leave the commode seat up, so they can stand on the rim of the commode....i am not trying to teach them this....they just see me pick up their dropping and put them in the commode...so they are learning.....just goes to show you how very smart homers are! Is also the reason why i believe they won't poop in their nest...they like it when i clean their place and their room...they like being clean...daily they bath themselves on the balcony where i have 3 plastic oblong brownie pans full of clean water...they actually set in these plastic pans of water until another one crowds them out....i also have pans of sand for them to baste in.....yep, they are spoiled for certain


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

If they have to learnt to use a wash room then terming them as brilliant beasts is 100% justified.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> If they have to learnt to use a wash room then terming them as brilliant beasts is 100% justified.


they don't "have" to use the washroom.....they are simply mimicing me, i am the parent, as are you the parent in the eyes of your homers.....the doves see us a parents, we feed them, care for them, etc....so the closer you are to them in their daily activities, the more they mimic you...they want to do what you do.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Oh yes! Its all a part of training and you have trained them well. ✌


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Yes you're true it will be good to use bricks if nest bowl tips over!
> But I don't need them,actually. I make such sort of paper nest that don't tip over so I don't need bricks. As we all know pigeons drink more water when breeding and ofcourse give more water to squabs in turn. When squabs pass out water with droppings it gets underneath the bricks. Bricks prevent evaporation from underneath them and it starts to stay wet/damp underneath them. I've used bricks previously.
> So I put nothing else but my handmade paper nest in the box so box can be scraped clean. Here's a pic





Jass SamOplay said:


> Cleaning plays an important part in pigeon keeping. More you clean,healthier the birds stay. Because most ailments,worms,virus etc transmit via droppings. It does not take much time to scarpe off droppings if you do it daily. Then droppings won't pile up. Well,I love my pigeons like children and it gives me immense satisfaction when I clean for my pigeons.... for them to sleep in clean environment throught night.
> Most fanciers scrape the droppings off daily.
> With this much mess they make,its necessary to scrape clean the nest daily. Here the pic of the mess in 16 hours. And its a paper nest handmade by me


Thanks for pics. They are beautiful. How you make paper nests? Sounds interesting! The paper nest look good in second pic. Look like a solid nest but is it comfortable?

Will you sell some birds to me?


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Mani, have a look at Jass's album. He has shown a step by step method to make a disposable paper nest bowl which is easy and cheap. Don't forget to thank him  for the great idea.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Beautiful birds you have there? Are these tipplers?
> 
> I used the disposable paper nest bowl which i made as per instructions in your album. I used the least amount of paper. Maybe i should add more and make them sturdier.
> 
> As i get to spend only the weekends at home i clean my simple loft every sunday. Otherwise our maid cleans the brick tiled floor of our aviary twice every week. With ample sun and wind in my setup the whole area remains dry. But as per earlier discussions i plan to partition the aviary in the middle with a simple wooden structure so that the loft part of it is covered on all 4 sides.


Thanks. Yes these are Malwaii HFs.

Oh ok. See if you stay on tour it will be hard for you to clean up. And if so use least amount of things in nest boxes. As you have an open loft flies can lay eggs in the elaborate nests.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> Actually, the bricks are a great idea. And it's a lot more natural. Pigeons don't use bowls in nature. They probably like the bricks better. And it isn't any harder to clean. How hard is it to move a brick? And the nest doesn't have to be cleaned daily either. Every few days would be fine, and if he can't do it but once a week, won't hurt anything. Okay to give your opinion, but why say anothers idea won't work? There is no right or wrong way, and many different ways of doing things. And cleaning every day would only irritate the parents.
> Thepigeongenes idea of having the bricks support the bowl is also a good one.


More you clean better it is. I said what I've experienced. If one has only one/few nests to clean then ok to use bricks. But when one has many bricks nests then cleaning and making big nests with bricks gonna be troublesome. Pigeons in nature make nest bowls with the sticks. They do make a shape like nestbowls with sticks.
I would be more than happy if bricks turn out to be good and convenient for Ananth but I wanna give advice according to things I've experienced. I didn't say ThePigeonGene's idea is bad. She was talking of giving support to nestbowls with bricks so that they DON'T TIP OVER. Mine nest bowls don't tip over why should I use bricks. I just said that to her that doesn't mean I'm not listening to others. 


Jay3 said:


> If you use enough straw for the nest, and clean every few days, nothing is going to go under the bricks. It stays in the straw that you remove every few days. If yours went under the bricks, then perhaps you didn't use enough nesting material.


You know already I'm not a novice. Here where I live we have a species of fly which is green in color with shiny lusturous abdomen. IDK its name in english. Since pigeons in hotter climates drink more and poop out more water,straw starts to catch the water up in it+droppings in nest, making perfect environment for fly larvae to thrive. And you know what they feed on when they grow up...squabs. You will leave absolutely healthy squabs at night and come next morning you will find your squabs dead with those red colored maggots bored into crops and bodies. Horrible deaths. I myself and many others lost squabs to them and then decided to keep minimum things in nest boxes. You might remember I talk of minimal nesting materials.When one starts with pigeons he wants to make a best and comfy nest for his pigeons out of care but that maynot turn out to be comfy as we think. Situations are different. That's why I asked Ananth to talk to locals about pigeon keeping cuz you guys do things differently in the west. Ananth already thinks he is unlucky with his pigeons breeding and I certainly don't want him to lose squabs to larvae so that he gets utterly disappointed. I would suggest him to use thin sticks for nesting materials rather than straw as thin sticks is what pigeons use in nature


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

...Mani... said:


> Thanks for pics. They are beautiful. How you make paper nests? Sounds interesting! The paper nest look good in second pic. Look like a solid nest but is it comfortable?
> 
> Will you sell some birds to me?


Thanks. Yes, they're comfortable and give traction to squabs to prevent splay legs. As Ananth told please visit my profile album on how to make them.



Ananth_Tvli said:


> Mani, have a look at Jass's album. He has shown a step by step method to make a disposable paper nest bowl which is easy and cheap. Don't forget to thank him  for the great idea.


It may or maynot be a good idea to some but as we Indians don't have any place to buy such nests from,this idea will help with this problem and its a step towards recycling and creativity


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

PS: To Mani, sorry I don't have any extra birds right now to sell/give off. But I'll let you know when I have some. Thanks for your interest


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Update :- 

The hen laid another egg and voila! .... their position changed to normal 

Yesterday i lost another egg probably because the nest bowl flipped over. So i took off all the bowls and replaced with bigger plastic trays (or) arranged wooden blocks instead of bricks as shown in below pics.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

The pictures.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's fine, but you will need enough nesting material to give them something to grab onto with their feet, as those surfaces are slippery.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thank you Jay. I will add enough of nesting material. They were seen scratching the surface.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jass SamOplay said:


> More you clean better it is. I said what I've experienced. If one has only one/few nests to clean then ok to use bricks. But when one has many bricks nests then cleaning and making big nests with bricks gonna be troublesome. Pigeons in nature make nest bowls with the sticks. They do make a shape like nestbowls with sticks.
> I would be more than happy if bricks turn out to be good and convenient for Ananth but I wanna give advice according to things I've experienced. I didn't say ThePigeonGene's idea is bad. She was talking of giving support to nestbowls with bricks so that they DON'T TIP OVER. Mine nest bowls don't tip over why should I use bricks. I just said that to her that doesn't mean I'm not listening to others.
> 
> 
> You know already I'm not a novice. Here where I live we have a species of fly which is green in color with shiny lusturous abdomen. IDK its name in english. Since pigeons in hotter climates drink more and poop out more water,straw starts to catch the water up in it+droppings in nest, making perfect environment for fly larvae to thrive. And you know what they feed on when they grow up...squabs. You will leave absolutely healthy squabs at night and come next morning you will find your squabs dead with those red colored maggots bored into crops and bodies. Horrible deaths. I myself and many others lost squabs to them and then decided to keep minimum things in nest boxes. You might remember I talk of minimal nesting materials.When one starts with pigeons he wants to make a best and comfy nest for his pigeons out of care but that maynot turn out to be comfy as we think. Situations are different. That's why I asked Ananth to talk to locals about pigeon keeping cuz you guys do things differently in the west. Ananth already thinks he is unlucky with his pigeons breeding and I certainly don't want him to lose squabs to larvae so that he gets utterly disappointed. I would suggest him to use thin sticks for nesting materials rather than straw as thin sticks is what pigeons use in nature



They are blow flies I think. Nasty things 

We get them mainly on things like the dogs poop or manure. We don't get too many but you see them on the poop (or old meat if anyone leaves out food for the cats).

A friend who owns chickens and rabbits is always afraid of them laying eggs in the animals vents too and won't let her rabbits, or sickly chickens out during the summer days.

I find if I clean up the dog poop quickly I do not have a prob with them, as we live in a clean neighbor hood. I've also sprayed the dog poop with insecticide when I was in a hurry and didn't have time to pick it up. They stayed away from it after that. THey do not seem attracted to pigeon poop and I've never seen them around the loft. If I did I'd prob put up fly nets, like I want to do against mosquitos, better safe than sorry.


My biggest prob seems to be mold. Some droppings dry and are find for even 3-4 days, while others seem to grow black mold almost overnight . not in the nest but near it. Not sure why, as humidity has not been soooo high lately, and its never the droppings in the bowl. I must have a pocket of stagnant air somewhere around the bowls.

Knowing that I get mold I do not like to leave too long between cleaning. I put a lot of nesting material because I find it helps the squabs poop outside the bowl, but they still get some inside. And till now I have had no prob with flying pest like flies or mosquitos (I put rosemary stems in the loft and it works quite well). Don't know if it would work on blow flies.

If someone wanted to use bricks but had a prob of moisture they could always put some drying material or pesticide like permethrin powder underneath the bricks. I do that under my nest bowls because I am paranoid about red mites

I put in a completely fresh nest like once every 3 days if not more. Generally when the edge of the bowl is almost covered with poop. But I scrape away poop from near the bowl every other day or so because of the mould. I tired putting sand down, but the poops end up 'tower' shaped and the sand only dries the first layer.

For the record I never felt that you were saying my opinion was wrong. Afterall we all share from our own exp which are prob very different. And bricks are not even something I every personally used but liked the idea of so I am not surprised you had some warnings from personal exp with them.

As long as the opinions are for the better life of the birds I don;t think anyone's opinions are wrong. I have read more than one 'dangerous and wrong' comment in this forum, but not so far I think in this thread.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

I solved all the problems once and for all by buying earthen clay pots - no sand, brick, wood, flipping et al...... just a small comfy pot with few twigs - the birds seem to like them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good, now make sure they have enough nesting material, or they may get splayed leg.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Sure Jay3, i'll provide them with enough nesting material. Thanks.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> I solved all the problems once and for all by buying earthen clay pots - no sand, brick, wood, flipping et al...... just a small comfy pot with few twigs - the birds seem to like them.


Sounds great... Glad that birds like them. And these bowls will help keep the eggs in centre. Could you post one pic? I just wanted to see it.



ThePigeonGene- thanks for sharing your exp. Yes you're true, cleaniness keeps things away. And insecticide dust works great! But did you ever have a problem with using insecticides in the nest? I used it for years. But once my birds started to show respiratory problems as they inhaled the dust which I used to use very little. Then I stopped using it,now I use insecticide spray instead.


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Sure Jass but I can post the pics this weekend.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Sounds great... Glad that birds like them. And these bowls will help keep the eggs in centre. Could you post one pic? I just wanted to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> ThePigeonGene- thanks for sharing your exp. Yes you're true, cleaniness keeps things away. And insecticide dust works great! But did you ever have a problem with using insecticides in the nest? I used it for years. But once my birds started to show respiratory problems as they inhaled the dust which I used to use very little. Then I stopped using it,now I use insecticide spray instead.


Haven't had a problem yet (3 years). I don't put a lot, just a light dusting in the sand grit, enough to be unpleasent for bugs to live there. THen i put the bowl on top. THe dust doesn't get spread around or agitated so it doesn't bother them.

I used to put dust in the litter I ahve under the wire, but that irritated my lungs! because everytime I got the trays out to clean I'd be covered in a cloud of permethrin! So I stopped that and started using rosemanry which works quite well. Now I want to try put bayleaves in my feed because I ahve a prob with bugs in the feed (who doesn't!). An old book I bought suggested keeping the food in square troughs and agitating it daily to kill bugs. Works better than leaving the feed untouched but still.

I tried washing the seed but it took ages to get everything dry and they got contaminated again for me 

Right now I'm attacking them with masking tape! I leave the feed containers open outside for a few minutes and all the small bugs come out to find mates, then I grab my masking tape and snatch them up like a fly strip. Takes a while, but it actually helped quite a bit. Moths are harder to keep away


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have always used the dust under the nests and have never had a problem. Works great.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Haven't you tried Diatomaceous earth in the feed for bugs, ThePigeonGene


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Haven't you tried Diatomaceous earth in the feed for bugs, ThePigeonGene


No. I've heard of it, but never tried it. Doesn't it get caught with the feed though and fed to the pigeons?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes,
But its not harmful to pigeons. Foodgrade Diatomaceous Earth helps to kill almost all internal worms too. Its natural product so no side effects but its takes 30-90 days for DE to kill internal parasites. Its safe for squabs too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If DE works only when dry, then can you explain how it works when eaten by pigeons and is then wet? Makes no sense.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> If DE works only when dry, then can you explain how it works when eaten by pigeons and is then wet? Makes no sense.


Yes I remember bringing up this point before........I don't see how it works inside the body either.

I'm not sure I can find it here, but I will have a look, if it won't harm them when ingested.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I think I talked about food grade DE.


Here a wonderful link which Skyeking posted which may answer your questions mates...
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Pics of birds sitting on earthen pots.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Nice work 
Thanks for sharing pics.
Who's that little cute fella sitting in last pic?


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thank you. Glad that i got something right at last. 

He is the first hatchling in my loft. 😀


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

THey look great, good job 

Their poops look really nice too!


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks ThePigeonGene.

As you've mentioned about their nice looking(?) poops, i have this doubt about poops in my loft. The poops in almost all the nest boxes appear similar to the ones you find in the pic. I assume they are passed during the night but the loft/aviary floor is a total mess with watery poops, poops with a thready appearance etc. during day time. Should i worry? I don't usually know which bird has done this or that but most of the poops are different from night time poops.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Thanks ThePigeonGene.
> 
> As you've mentioned about their nice looking(?) poops, i have this doubt about poops in my loft. The poops in almost all the nest boxes appear similar to the ones you find in the pic. I assume they are passed during the night but the loft/aviary floor is a total mess with watery poops, poops with a thready appearance etc. during day time. Should i worry? I don't usually know which bird has done this or that but most of the poops are different from night time poops.


No need to worry. They are prob drinking a lot and so pooping more water. Its the night time poops that are the most important and show the health.

If one of your birds has watery night time poops then something is going on. Just sometimes they step on their poops so you won't always find that 'perfect' shape, but they won't be overly wet.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Just noticed that white material on the side, in the top pic

I can't tell if it is gypsum/plaster or styrofoam.

Styrofoam should be kept away from animals, because it breaks into little balls that they eat and it blocks their system. Dogs etc can also inhale it and cause problems


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## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

It is indeed styrofoam. I will replace it TODAY. How very thoughtful of you Pigeongene.

Thank you loads - for this and for the clarification reg poops. Its very hot out here and probably they drink a lot resulting in watery poops. I will do a proper watch of night time poops, much easier to relate them to indiviual birds.


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