# Help!! found a Heavy Breathing, eyes closed pigeon



## joyful

Hi, I just so shocked to find a heavy breathing pigeon on my balcony. I guess s/he want my help. 

please help me, what is wrong with this wild pigeon?

after an hour, still heavy breathing as (I can see the muscle around her neck is expanding and contracting.). the pigeon has clicking sound that he breathes. 
now, s/he closed both eyes and using the mouth to breathe.
I did give some seeds and water for the pigeon.

what possible disease s/he has?
what medicine can I buy?

I am worry as I already had one disabled pigeon and one with PVM in the house. hope the illness is not contagious 
how can I help this sick pigeon? I cannot afford a vet.


thanks, your advice and suggestion is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Feefo

Can you bring the pigeon in from outside, put him in a separate room as a precaurtion and put him on a heat pad set on low or a hot water bottle.

Don't try to give him food or water just yet, wait until he warms through and then mix 1/2 pint of warm water with 1/2 tablespoon of glucose, or honey or sugar and half a teaspoon of salt. Offer that to him warm and dip his beak in it to encourage him to drink.

Do you have any antibiotics? And can you tell us where you are (even the country will help) so that we know what resources there are availbale?

Cynthia


----------



## lwerden

It definately sounds like this pigeon needs your help. It's amazing but they really do seek out people who will try and help them.

If the bird is now breathing with it's mouth open and it's eyes closed the situation could be very critical.

I would bring the bird in and warm him by placing him in safe place with a heating pad on low with a towell placed on top. I would open his beak and check for canker. His mouth should be pink and clear. If you see any yellow cottage cheese looking lumps or extreme mucus in his mouth he could be suffering from advanced canker. There are medications to treat this if it's not too late. It could also be a number of other things, but that is the first and most common thing that comes to mind.

Check him and get back to us.


----------



## Charis

Could be this is a hen getting ready to lay an egg. The heating pad is a good idea and if that's the case...time will tell.


----------



## joyful

thank you all for your speedy replies. 
I have read some "sticky' on this site and I have put Barn in a box in a quiet, dark corner in the house. Barn is safe and warm. I also did prepared the solution and put it in the box. 

three hours later, breathing seems not so rapid. 
but the head is way down, touching the 'floor" of the box and I guess Barn is sleeping. From his current position, I cannot even see if the eyes are closed or opened. 
Is this a symptom of a disease?

I like to try to open Barn's mouth to check for mucus, but hesistate...to wake him from his sleep. I definitely would like to try later.

as for hot water bottle, do I just put it beside Barn or under his bed? his body is not particularly cold. He is resting in a corner of the box now. 

I lived in Toronto, Canada. 
what antibiotics is good for the pigeons? what do you recommend? 
do you know any online bird drug store?

please help me again. 
I just wonder what illness or disease do this bird had?
thanks again.


----------



## Pigeonlove

There are several on line sites. One that has a whole section on bird illnesses and treatments is all bird products. allbirdproducts.com. Where it lists articles,click on bird health. Good luck. I'm sure other people will give you more help, too.


----------



## sky tx

I've always heard pigeons temp is 104 degrees F---40 C ?


----------



## pdpbison

Hi Joyful,


Keep him set up on an incline so his Head is higher than his shoulders...use some soft rumpled Cloth...set it up so there is a sort of supporting trough he can lay in.


There is just so many things his condition could have going on...hard to know where to begin.

One has to do a detailed examination of quite a few features and attributes - 

Check the Crop for contents, and kinds of contents by 'feel'...doe you feel Seeds? seemingly fairly dry Seeds? Slushy Seeds, NO Seeds but slushy? Or does it feel like nothing but Water in there?

If the Crop seems very full, be especially sensitive to how you go about feeling it, since they can start throwing up sometimes and drown themselves inadvertently.



Check the Vent ( where they poop from ) and see if any Urates or Poops have been sticking to the Feathers there, and if so, to evaluate them as indicators of one or another kind of infection/illness...color, texture, odor...


Check the Bird's Mouth and Throat...see if there is any inflamitory debris or signs of infection...color of tissue, Pink? Purple? Blue?

Check any poops or urates he or she has made since bringing them in...colors, consistency, volume...evaluating those...

Their weight and muscles, around the Keel particularly, are they thin? Emaciated? Heavy and full bodied?

Check them all over very carefully for possible Pellet Gun entrance wounds...and these can be hard to find...being covered by often undisturbed Feathers.


If Crop is slushy feeling or seems to have liquid in it, is there an odor if you scent his Breath with his Beak open and your Nose right up in there to be able to tell?


On and on...

So...what one does for them, depends on what the features of their condition seem to be...

If his Crop seems fairly empty, or has Seeds in it but seems dry and not slushy, and, he is conscious...you can gently guide his Beak into some room temperature Electrolytes ( paedalyte or make your own using a pinch of salt and a pinch of sugar dissolved in some tepid Water) and see if he wishes to drink...making sure his Head is higher than his shoulders when doing so.


Anyway...look him over some more, and see what you can tell us.


Phil
Lv


----------



## Pidgey

Pigeons normally run 107 degrees F when they're healthy. Infections usually cause them to go cold, quite the opposite as us. It is possible to check a bird's temperature by holding a thermometer (that will go that high) under their wing and pressed against the "armpit" with the wing held in the normal position.

Anyhow, there could be any of many things wrong, including a blockage in the trachea (windpipe). Medications would probably need to be acquired from a vet but Metronidazole (Flagyl is one trade name) would be one for the canker previously mentioned; and Enrofloxacin (Baytril) is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that might help for other things. Often, those two (or similar ones) are given together as a "shotgun" effect in the hopes of helping when the cause of the problem isn't known.

Pidgey


----------



## joyful

I tried to upload Barn's pic. 

I created my album. When I tried to upload the pic, this is the error message I got:
"LFailed to write file. Check disc quotas and permissions for the path: /mnt/nfs/static.keebali.com/pigeons.biz/forums/useralbums/thumbs/13/4b8e635879764d39393df5199971d258_13507.jpg"

How can I upload a pic? I wonder if there is something wrong with Barn's mouth? It is not closed as other pigeons.
And Barn's poop is white "clay like". Is this normal?
thanks


----------



## Pigeonlove

Post the pic here as a "Post reply". Click on the paper clip to upload.


----------



## joyful

thanks, Pigeonlove. 
Hi all, please help me. Is there something wrong with Barn's beak? 
what possible disease? is there any remedy? thanks again for your all insights.
First night, I feel Barn is very scared. I need to wait for Barn to feel comfortable before I touch him. I did tried to put a "pillow" under his head, he froze. Later when I walked by, he looked so alert. I feel guilty ....


----------



## Pidgey

Trichomoniasis. Caused by a protozoa and it results in the buildup of large amounts of inflammatory debris in the neck and throat. You can usually see the cheese-like buttons although this fellow looks very advanced due to the visible swelling under the lower jaw. That's where a Nitroimidazole like Metronidazole, Secnidazole, Ronidazole, Carnidazole and maybe another one or two would work if the poor fellow can be saved. It would probably require a vet visit and very quickly. Also, the medications might need to be given by a shot in order to get into the bloodstream and have an effect in time. Best of luck.

Pidgey


----------



## Jay3

You're right. It looks like it comes together at the tip, but doesn't come together from there up. Wonder what caused that?


----------



## Dobato

Hi Joyful,

Thanks for helping this poor guy out.

In your area you may want to call the people at the link below, they will have the expertise and medicines on hand to help treat this bird's infection.

http://www.torontowildlifecentre.com/

Good luck with him,

Karyn


----------



## Jaye

Before bringing to the centre, call and confirm ith them that they will treat a feral who is sick w/ Trich (also called "canker").... and NOT put the pigeon down. If you cannot get her/him to the centre, or if their answer to your Q is mealy-mouthed and not definitive....see if you can find a tropical fish store which sells a product called Fishzole, which is the drug Metronidazole. They may not have Fishzole brand, but may have Metronidazole products...which is good as long as there are no other ingredients in the med., as it needs to be pure Metronidazole.

Then you can dilute and administer with a plastic syringe or even an eyedropper.

Thanks for saving the pigeon !!!


----------



## pdpbison

Often, when we initially see swelling of the Throat or under-chin areas, this is from swelling and inflamatory debris in the actual Throat or upper Esophagus.

This debris can not be pushed aside or pushed down or pulled out, and it attached to lesions in the Tissues...and interference with it can occasion serious bleeding.

The difficulty then, is to get rehydration solutions if need be, and, or there-after, Medicines, ( and later, Nutritive Liquid Foods) into the Pigeon's Crop, because the inflamitory debris can effectively block the Throat enough to prevent liquids, let alone solids of any sort, to pass, or to be put passed.


Hence, Syringes or Eye Droppers and so on, can cause the liquid to merely pool in the Pigeon's Throat, and, end up flooding into the Bird's Trachea, causing drowning or a soon death by liquids in the Lungs.

A Thin, soft Catheter section, fitted to a Syringe, is a vastly better method, since the Catheter section end can be cut to an angle, lightly lubricated with Olive Oil, and, gently, sensitively twirled through and passed the blockage, allowing liquids or thin formulas to be put into the Crop directly.


Any home care medical retail place sells No. 8 French Pediatric Urinary Catheters, and, Plain snout 10 mL syringes...and these will be found to work very well for such conditions.


One has to carefully evaluate the Throat, and, what debris, if any, is present, before trying to orally administer Liquids or anything else.


Obturations can occur deeper in the Esophagus where we can not see them by looking into the Bird's Throat...so, even if their Throat appears clear, care must be taken to sound out the possibility of blockage existing further down.


If all is clear enough...and if one is to use a Syringe or Eye Dropper to adminster Liquids...


The Bird should be rehydrated first, if he or she need this, before adminstering Medicines.

And, the Liquids ( if the Birds is not drinking volentarily ) must be put, the end of the Syringe or Eye Dropper, must be put far enough back, so in discharging the Liquid slowly, nothing will flood upward or forward into the Bird's Trachea or Wind Pipe.

Wind Pipe or Trachea, is what one sees closest to the front...

Throat proper, is as far back as possible...

If adminstering Liquids orally, into the Throat, with a Syrings onloy or an Eyedropper, the Bird's Beak should be held open, their Head being steadied with their Throat-Esophagus being in a straight line as possible through out it's length...so Neck is extended...holding them that way for the procedure.


----------



## joyful

Thank you, a BIG thank you to you all. U are a group of kind people and pigeon lovers. All your answers are very useful. 
Jaye, thank you so much, fish med is easier to get than a prescription, cheaper too. 
I will try very hard to save the pigeon, thank U all for all the tips.

wonder if there is other holistic remedy? 
other additional insights are welcome. thanks.


----------



## pdpbison

Hi joyful, 


You need to do three things a.s.a.p.


Check his Throat, if his Beak will even open with gentle reasonable effort, and, if the infection is effecting his Jaw Muscles, it may not, in which case, do not force it. If his Beak will open easily, look in to his Mouth and Throat. Do you see any off white or yellowish debris in there? Or does his Throat appear clear? or only partially blocked with debris? ( Do not try and losen or remove any debris if there is any in there ).

Check his Crop, the front Area of his Body, where his Neck ends, and, his Chest begins...gently feel and slightly pinch it from the sides toward the middle without doing it all the way, just to see if it seems to have Seeds or Liquids or a combination of either in it...or see if you can tell how much is in there if anything is.


Check his Butt, his 'Vent' area, for any poop or urates sticking there...and, also, see how many Poops he has made since you got him...and let us know what those Poops look like for color, consistency and size. If he has poops sticking or built up there, go to the BAthroom sink, run tepid Water, hold him vertically Head topmost, with his Butt toward the Water, Water running over his Butt, and, gently massage all the Feathers there clean with your finger tips...this can take a few minutes if there is material built up there...blot dry as best you can, and set him back in his Cage Nest on soft rumpled Cloths, light color or white cloth is best, since it allows you to best see what poops and yrates are being made.



Let us know what observations and details you can supply about these things.


If his Beak will open, and, if his Throat seems somewhat clear, please offer him some room temperature/tepid Electrolytes to drink, by gently guiding his Beak into a little Bowl or Cup of them...these can be made by dissolving a Pinch of Sugar, and, a Pinch of Salt in a medium/small Glass of Water.



Phil
Lv


----------

