# Pigeon problem at my bakery



## littlesis (Jun 17, 2013)

I co-own a bakery in San Rafael California, and lately we have been having a problem with a pigeon. This pigeon has been around here for over a year, and we took pity on him because he has a lame foot and has never really caused issues for us before. Lately though, now that summer is here and we open the doors to let the heat of the ovens out, the little guy has started to just walk on in. He goes into the kitchen and over to the cases where we sell the food. It has often happened that customers see the bird in the store, and leave without purchasing anything. 

We're a small business and can't afford to lose customers. Another man who works in the store wants to bring in a pellet gun and just shoot it. I would like to try and find a more humane solution. I don't think catching him and releasing him somewhere else is a possible solution. Since this is a bakery and a good food source (outdoor eating area with plenty of crumbs), the bird would likely use his homing ability to just come back. I come to the experts hoping you guys would know of a good strategy to keep the bird away, or to find him a new place to live. Any ideas?


----------



## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

He has a food source so he will stay. Is his leg still lame? Somebody else may have a better idea but a hawk decoy out front may make him relocate. Put it in the front door it would at the very least keep him outside.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

get him inside and catch him, keep him in a carrier with food and water and adopt him out..he may not even be feral born but lost. a picture would be great if you can.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Oh, what a sweetie, the bird is staying because of your kindness in feeding him and he is just trying to adapt to a human world, he is limited and because of a lame foot. 

Please do catch the bird. Here is a link on catching the bird. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/1...s-incl2cnd-step-post-your-location-38776.html *


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's my suggestions:

~ Is there a way NOT to let him just walk inside ? A screen door, for example. OR, if you wanna let him in because to you he doesn't bother anyone, can you cordone off a space where he can be inside but not visible to your customers ? Perhaps with room dividers or screens or curtains or shelves or such ?

This would seem quite conceivable.

~ Next: he is lame, he needs help to survive and he has found your kindness....please _do NOT catch him and relocate him elsewhere._ That was bad advice above. Relocating a Feral can cause great havoc for them, particularly one who is compromised...they are very, very easy hawk or cat prey. Also, they can home so find their way back. Please do not do that. It is a lot of labor and will end badly.

~ Last thought: shoot the customer who suggested the bb gun. There are too many cruel people in the world who do stupid things. San Rafael would be a safer place afterward.

If you wish to, you can secure him and then post in the adoption section of this Forum. There are folks in the Bay Area and Sonoma/Napa who have Pigeon rescues in their lofts.
DO NOT secure him and post on Craigslist....because the people looking for Pigeons there either wanna use 'em as target practice or dog training practice (and I don't mean German Shorthaired Pointers, if you get my drift).

DO NOT secure him and take him to any wildlife rehab facility...they will just kill him. I used to live in the Bay Area, no wildlife rescue places there will rehab an injured Pigeon. Many will actually convince you to bring him in, give you a really hard sell on it; and he'd be dead within a few hours.

Thank you for caring. You have a good heart. It seems a resolvable situation without needing to resort to cruelty or creating a hardship for the Pigeon or your business.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Jaye said:


> ~ Last thought: shoot the customer who suggested the bb gun. There are too many cruel people in the world who do stupid things. San Rafael would be a safer place afterward.


LOL! Jaye, that's very good advice! I agree completely!

And Ms Bakery, thank you for caring for the little pigeon. Sometimes, we'll never know that an angel could disguise itself as a pigeon to test you, or your business... so I hope you will resort to kindness instead of cruelty.

You'll never know that how you treat this pigeon could have an enormous effect to your future business. Karma is a beautiful thing.

Thank you for wanting to find a solution in this forum rather than resorting to cruel suggestions. I suggest adopting the pigeon and caring for it, but away from the sight of your customers. A pigeon will bring good luck to your business - in secret, without the public knowing 

All the best! May your business flourish with the prayers of pigeons!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jaye said:


> ~ Next: he is lame, he needs help to survive and he has found your kindness....please _ *do NOT catch him and relocate him elsewhere._ That was bad advice above.


*Did I miss something...*Who said anything about relocating the bird?? The bird needs to be contained for its own good and so a home can be found. *


----------



## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Okay everybody keeps going on and on and on. First question still has not been answered: Is the foot still lame? Sounds like this pigeon is doing quite well on it's own since it has been there for over a year. Even if it's a domestic pigeon it's coming there from it's own roost, be that someones loft or under a bridge. Lets get some answer from the original poster rather than just keep saying to catch it and secure it and adopt it out. For all we know this could be a feral that has found a great place to get food.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

tjc1 said:


> Okay everybody keeps going on and on and on.* First question still has not been answered: Is the foot still lame?* Sounds like this pigeon is doing quite well on it's own since it has been there for over a year. Even if it's a domestic pigeon it's coming there from it's own roost, be that someones loft or under a bridge. Lets get some answer from the original poster rather than just keep saying to catch it and secure it and adopt it out. For all we know this could be a feral that has found a great place to get food.


Well, the original poster has not come back since posting this


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

tjc1 said:


> Okay everybody keeps going on and on and on. First question still has not been answered: Is the foot still lame? Sounds like this pigeon is doing quite well on it's own since it has been there for over a year. Even if it's a domestic pigeon it's coming there from it's own roost, be that someones loft or under a bridge. Lets get some answer from the original poster rather than just keep saying to catch it and secure it and adopt it out. For all we know this could be a feral that has found a great place to get food.


*Really? We know the the author of this thread has not responded. We are not going on and on...the bird NEEDS to be contained FIRST and FOREMOST to be examened, rather then making any assumptions regarding its physical health and lame foot. *


----------



## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Don't talk to me like that. Your a moderator? All I said was pretty simple, everybody is saying this pigeon needs to be caught and we don't even know the facts. Read the post I put on there, they felt sorry for it because it had a lame foot. But it has been coming back for over a year. First question I asked was the the foot still lame. For all we know it's fine and is just coming back for free food.


----------



## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

tjc1 - You need to go back and read the original post. It says the bird *HAS* a lame foot. And it may not be causing problems for the owner, but is causing problems for some of her customers, who have walked out. The bird needs to be secured, if only to take care of the concerns of the paying customers who may see it as a health issue.

If it is tame, could it be sent to the pigeon rescue facility near San Francisco. I can't remember the name. Cickapoo - something like that. 

Screen doors may be the answer, but could be expensive.

The bottom line is that the bird is costing the bakery money and customers and needs to be stopped from coming in.


----------



## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

That can be interpreted as both ways. It could be interpreted as the bird came to them a year ago and they took pity on it or the bird still has a lame foot. That is why the first question I asked was "is the foot still lame". I was just making a statement that we keep throwing info out there and the original poster has not come back. There was no need for me to talked down to. I agree if the pigeon needs help the pigeon needs help but let us see what the poster says before everybody keeps saying catch the bird. I think the idea for a screen door actually made the most sense especially if a bird could walk in what about all the bugs that are getting in.


----------



## littlesis (Jun 17, 2013)

Thank you so much for your kind responses!

To clarify on the point of his foot, it's an old injury, not a new one. He's missing two of his toes and walks with a limp, but seems to do fine despite.

I would like to adopt, as I have a soft spot for animals. However, the last animal I rescued was a a feral cat, and something tells me that I would only end up traumatizing the bird by bringing it around my other wild thing.

I've been doing some research and saw that predator effigies can be effective, so long as they are moved regularly. Otherwise the birds catch on it's not real. I think I might like to try that, but I'm not sure what one of these effigies would look like. Should they be hawk or cat, and how realistic do they need to look?

A screen would probably not work with the type of doors we have. They are an accordion-style folding doors. I could see if anyone would be interested in adoption if he predator effigy doesn't work. Is there any other deterrent that would help?


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

littlesis said:


> Thank you so much for your kind responses!
> 
> To clarify on the point of his foot, it's an old injury, not a new one. He's missing two of his toes and walks with a limp, but seems to do fine despite.
> 
> ...


*Thank you for your response.It would be preferrable to catch the bird first, and see if there are any other health issues going on with it.

It would be ideal if you could adopt the bird and put inside safe area, for its own safety since it is lame it does stand out for a predator attack, especially a pigeon on its own, they usually fly in numbers.

The predator deflectors work for a time but they can loose their effectiveness against predators. We are happy to help with any ideas you come up with. Please do share links to the ones you have found. Thanks again for your kindness shown to this helpless creature. *


----------



## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

As Skyeking has said, thank you for your kindness and caring. Please keep us informed of how things go in the future.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Jaye said:


> Here's my suggestions:
> 
> ~ Is there a way NOT to let him just walk inside ? A screen door, for example. OR, if you wanna let him in because to you he doesn't bother anyone, can you cordone off a space where he can be inside but not visible to your customers ? Perhaps with room dividers or screens or curtains or shelves or such ?
> 
> ...





Miss-Sassypants said:


> LOL! Jaye, that's very good advice! I agree completely!
> 
> And Ms Bakery, thank you for caring for the little pigeon. Sometimes, we'll never know that an angel could disguise itself as a pigeon to test you, or your business... so I hope you will resort to kindness instead of cruelty.
> 
> ...


Really guys, To shoot someone is great advice, So they are ignorant yes, why not educate them rather than lower yourself to their level and then for someone else on the forum to quote it as "great advice" Shoot, Imagine if a child or young adult was to hear or read a statement such as, Shoot them... and we wonder why so many people are getting shot around the world. Im a little shocked that two people as intelligent as you would even comment such as this.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tjc1 said:


> That can be interpreted as both ways. It could be interpreted as the bird came to them a year ago and they took pity on it or the bird still has a lame foot. That is why the first question I asked was "is the foot still lame". I was just making a statement that we keep throwing info out there and the original poster has not come back. There was no need for me to talked down to. I agree if the pigeon needs help the pigeon needs help but let us see what the poster says before everybody keeps saying catch the bird. I think the idea for a screen door actually made the most sense especially if a bird could walk in what about all the bugs that are getting in.


good work man, It seems your question was valid.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

IMO the bird, if capable of finding other food sources could be softly weaned away from your Bakery, Or it could be caught and adopted out as a pet, Do you want it? Make a little aviary and loft, Get it a mate and have it in the yard.?????


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

a picture could see if he was domestic or not, with him walking in a bakery it sounds like it is comfortable with being near humans and food, but he may be just that hungry to let his guard down, if the scare tactic works he just may go some place else but they may not be so kind.


----------



## littlesis (Jun 17, 2013)

Here is the site I went to for my information:

http://www.peta.org/issues/wildlife/pigeons.aspx

I think the reason the pigeon is so comfortable around us is that he knows he's been able to sneak in a few times, and we shoo him off, but don't hurt him. Some of our customers have fed him outside, so I assume he feels this is a safe place and people are not a threat. We've haven't minded him until now, because he stayed outside. But now he's coming in with more frequency and keeps trying to enter even after we shoo him out several times. Would something like clanging a pan loudly startle him enough to avoid coming indoors?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

the problem is , that he is being fed, and can't read humans minds that he or she is not allowd in a place that sells food. so he is not welcome now that he is looking. not really fair to him. he should of never been fed to begin with. like said a picture of him would help if he is a domestic type he may need more care than a feral that can or hope he can find and forage.but as said, scaring him off to some place else does not solve his dilemma but only yours.. another person will or may be scaring him off or worse in another shop. so getting him secure and place where he wont be a burden would be best for the pigeon.


----------



## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Okay here we go I will probably get shot down but first maybe build him a little loft outside. Maybe in the back of your shop and give him some real pigeon food. That would make him stay away from the front of your bakery. Then it will give you a mascot for the bakery and make him happy and safe. Even if he was a domestic he has been doing this for over a year so he is doing quite well for himself. So either he goes back to his owners loft every night after he fills up on your great baked goods or he is a very smart feral and knows where get the goods. As far as the decoy put it inside the door and keep moving it. The birds get smart after a while and will ignore it if it's in the same spot. But if it is always moving they think its real. A hawk or owl are the best to scare pigeons. I say put it inside the door because that may just keep him out of the store but allow him to get the scraps that customers give him outside. Also a dish of food outside(real pigeon food) may also allow him to fill up with the nutrients he needs and never want to come inside. He is coming inside looking for more food because he needs to fill up. If he get full outside he may never want to come in. I hope maybe one of these ideas helps both you and the pigeon in some way. I personally like the mascot idea.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Really guys, To shoot someone is great advice, So they are ignorant yes, why not educate them rather than lower yourself to their level and then for someone else on the forum to quote it as "great advice" Shoot, Imagine if a child or young adult was to hear or read a statement such as, Shoot them... and we wonder why so many people are getting shot around the world. Im a little shocked that two people as intelligent as you would even comment such as this.


Evan - Do you know the difference between a joke and a threat? I think not.

I could rant off but I wont. I know for certain it's pointless to argue with you.


PS: Ms Bakery - my apologies. I hope this does not distract others from the original post. Please carry on.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

tjc1 said:


> Okay here we go I will probably get shot down but first maybe build him a little loft outside. Maybe in the back of your shop and give him some real pigeon food. That would make him stay away from the front of your bakery. Then it will give you a mascot for the bakery and make him happy and safe. Even if he was a domestic he has been doing this for over a year so he is doing quite well for himself. So either he goes back to his owners loft every night after he fills up on your great baked goods or he is a very smart feral and knows where get the goods. As far as the decoy put it inside the door and keep moving it. The birds get smart after a while and will ignore it if it's in the same spot. But if it is always moving they think its real. A hawk or owl are the best to scare pigeons. I say put it inside the door because that may just keep him out of the store but allow him to get the scraps that customers give him outside. Also a dish of food outside(real pigeon food) may also allow him to fill up with the nutrients he needs and never want to come inside. He is coming inside looking for more food because he needs to fill up. If he get full outside he may never want to come in. I hope maybe one of these ideas helps both you and the pigeon in some way. I personally like the mascot idea.


I LIKE this idea! I agree that if you feed him more outside....a dish of pigeon/dove mix, some baked goods and a bowl of water, he might just be satisfied enough not to come inside looking for food. A little aviary would be great to keep him safe  I personally don't thing the decoys would work for long...or at all. I have owl decoys around my flight cages, I also attach feathers to the wings so that it moves in the breeze and move them around. My pigeons watch me and could care less...they know its fake!

And the person that wants to shoot it, is an employee (according to the original post).....Not a customer. But who's nit picking?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I just want to see a picture of this brave pigeon that thinks he owns a bakery! iphone anyone?


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Evan - Do you know the difference between a joke and a threat? I think not.
> 
> I could rant off but I wont. I know for certain it's pointless to argue with you.
> 
> ...


When one does not use emoticons and one is online it is hard to tell the difference between a joke and a threat - But yes I do know the difference. In all honesty after your post a while back stating you would have gone and bashed a guy that was seen hurting a pigeon (which you were not joking about) I was unsure if you actually agreed with Jayes comment, which too, had no emoticons suggesting it was a joke. sorry if your previous actions have made me think you might cross the line if you see a pigeon being hurt, the past posts surely depicted this.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> I just want to see a picture of this brave pigeon that thinks he owns a bakery! iphone anyone?


*I second that!!!! *


----------



## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

Feeding it out front will eventually only attract more pigeons, and possibley the health dept. you may need to open back doors, screen, or put in vents/fans like most places do.. I'm not against catching with a laundry basket, milk crate, box held up enough for it to get under at bait with stick and having string to then pull out. Whether its a probable feral or not doesn't matter. I've see people stomp pigeons outside of shops and cafes ect sadly. i lived in gatlinburg TN were they feed the ferals as mascots, yes there are homers maybe others occasionally, but majority are just feral mutts, but they get too tame were small children can pet and pick up and older ones decide cool to kick into traffic and stomp on.


----------

