# Urgent Need Help



## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Hi everybody friends and pigeon lovers, 
I have a 1.6years old female pigeon right now sitting on her eggs. For the past two days I can see she can't walk properly sitting on her eggs or sitting somewhere else when her partner is incubating through out the day. Her poop is bit smelly of mud like consistency and can't see the white part in it. It's all faces no whites but watery liquids are there. She is not trying to fly. She is shaking or trembling slightly. What should I do in India Kolkata there is no avian vet. Please advise.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Sumana, when has started this problem? In the laying eggs period? If so, she could maybe suffer from a temporary eggs paralysis. 

Once my pigeon Apple suffered from a bad case of it: she couldn't fly (I mean she couldn't do her "small flights", she is a broken wing pigeon), couldn't walk, etc. She pull herself along with wings...

I'm going to copy an article from 

www.pigeonrescue.co.uk


"Temporary (Egg Laying) Paralysis

This temporary weakness / paralysis can occur either during or after the laying of an egg and is 
thought to be caused by the egg pressing on the sciatic nerve.

The hen will have weak or useless eggs and will therefore be unable to walk or to fly and will probably be pulling itself along with its wings. The other pigeons seeing a fellow pigeon that behaves as if it is ill will follow their natural instincts to protect the flock and will attack and peck at the affected hen's head. That will cause her to seek shelter and she risks becoming trapped in small places.

If you see a pigeon that has trouble standing and walking, or is pulling itself along by its wings, it needs to be taken somewhere quiet and warm to rest. If it is likely to be a laying henm then calcium supplements formulated specially for birds, such as Calcivet, Calcivite, Zolcal D or Gen Liquid Calcium, given according to the
manufacture's instructions can help strengthen the muscles. They usually recover in a couple of days but they need to be monitored just in case there is an egg that is stuck". 

Apple recovered in a few days, I gave her extra calcium, vitamins, I had to hand feed her and offer her water in her nest. 

Do you usually give her calcium (like a liquid supplement or oyster shells or cuttlebone, etc I don't know what you can find in India)? Does she get vit D3 (in the wild pigeons get it from the sun, if they live indoor they need a vitamin supplement containing D3 because it is needed to absorb the calcium)? Keep her in a warm place, give her extra calcium and vitamins. 
Do you see her eating and drinking? Does she have a food and a water bowl next to her? 

Usually the poops of a female sitting on eggs look different from the others ones: they are larger and "messier" (even a bit smelly) than the common poops (because while a female is inside the nest sitting on eggs she doesn't poop for hours, she poops when she goes out from the nest for her break). Have you ever noticed something similar in the past? I asked you that question because I'm trying to understand the situation, you know, smelly poop could be a sign of a disease.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Hi Colombina, 
Thanks for your message. This situation has started right after laying eggs. Nothing happened like this in the past. I have given her Oyster shells, egg shells dried in the sun Vitamin D3 and calcium tablets mixed in her daily food. I have just started from today. Now my matter of concern is her poops. I give them mineral water and they live in a quite healthy condition. But just before and after laying eggs this time, I'm noticing this larger poop dark colour brown-black with a fishy smell in it. So I'm concerned. She is yep, pulling herself, literally, can fly downward easily but can't fly upward properly and not going outside. Now I'm worried.


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*nesting*



SumanaC said:


> Hi everybody friends and pigeon lovers,
> I have a 1.6years old female pigeon right now sitting on her eggs. For the past two days I can see she can't walk properly sitting on her eggs or sitting somewhere else when her partner is incubating through out the day. Her poop is bit smelly of mud like consistency and can't see the white part in it. It's all faces no whites but watery liquids are there. She is not trying to fly. She is shaking or trembling slightly. What should I do in India Kolkata there is no avian vet. Please advise.


dear sumanac,-nesting pigeons take shifts[am/pm]-their vigilant long sitting will produce a very large poop,-as I read your situation,smelly poop,and difficulty upward flying we could introduce probotics to aid the immune system..-as a precursor to maybe meds,please watch for other accumulative problems..--sincerely james waller


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She started this with laying the eggs, which shows that she most likely needs more calcium. If they are indoor birds who don't get direct sunshine, then they also need vitamin D3. They need the D3 in order to be able to absorb the calcium. Without it the calcium does them no good. A calcium/D3 supplement would be a good thing to give a couple times a week. Something like CalciBoost or CalciVet that you can put in the drinking water works well.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Yep respected pigeon lover friends. I have started dose of calcium medicine, Vit D3 and also egg shells mixed in their food. Today she's walking normally but the poop, I'm tensed about and today she's drinking a lot too. 
I'm attaching a pic of her poop.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

So, about what you said, it seems a temporary eggs laying paralysis (even my pigeon literally pulled herself with wings...). I'm glad today she is walking normally. 
To prevent any egg related problems and more generally any deficiencies remember to leave her always available a source of calcium (like a bowl filled with oyster shells, etc) . She will eat calcium according to her necessities, pigeons feel when they need it. Periodically (just check the directions for use, usually it is a weekly or monthly treatment) give her vitamins. When my pigeon had the paralysis, my vet confirmed me that minerals like iron, etc are really important for pigeons. Do you have any supplement containing them? 
Do you usually give her ACV water and probiotics?
I don't know if you can find something similar there (maybe you could check online) but I have a product (for birds, not specific to pigeons) containing B-glucans and mannan oligosaccharides which is really helpful in case of problems concerning intestinal flora. 

I remember I read somewhere that when a bird has a "light" intestinal bacterial infection the fact of not pooping for a long period (as I explained you earlier a female sits for hours on eggs without pooping: she holds her poop inside her body for a long time. In add your pigeon had difficulties in moving) could make the infection worse. I don't have any personal experience with that. 
Maybe she had a previous disease but you didn't notice it (because it was in the incubation period or it was a minor disease) or maybe the stress of the paralysis originated it.
Smelly water poop and drinking more could make me think about coccidiosis or hexamitiasis. As I said, it could also be a bacterial infection or something else (have you checked her beak/throat for canker? In any case, canker does not always show in the mouth/throat).
Does she eat normally?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Salmonella will make a yellowish green dropping, but I don't know that it is that. How long have they been that color? 
Your birds do need to get the calcium/D3 a couple times a week. Is the D3 included in the calcium?


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

It all happened after laying eggs. Yes I'm giving calcium separately and vit D3 too in her water as well as seeds. I'm also giving her bit A, B complex, ACV and probiotic from yesterday. I have never seen her poop like this before they live in a healthy condition and I give them bottled mineral water only. They fly twice a day from my roof. And come back after 15mnts. Today her leg problem is gone she gave a flight. But I'm concerned about the poop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Now that she is doing better I think the droppings will return to normal. Just keep an eye for a couple of days.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Do you suspect salmonella?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If I did then I wouldn't have said that they would probably return to normal. See how they are in a couple of days. She is doing better since the calcium and D3, but if she doesn't get that a couple times a week anyway, then she will continue to have problems with laying. She could even get egg bound.
Watch her and see that she eats, drinks, and acts normally.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

The greenish tint in her poop is gone today though it's still muddy, the colour has turned brown. She is eating normally. Drinking and wanted to get out from her cage. Not sitting with feathers ruffled as before. I'm giving ACV, Probiotic, D3, Vit A B complex, Vit E along with Calcium. 
One more thing Jay3 I have a packet of powdered amino acid with multi vitamin and mineral I bought from Amazon. Can I use it for them? Plz advise.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm really glad to hear she gave a flight yesterday. As I thought, it was an eggs laying paralysis, even Apple recovered in some days. 
Just remember to leave always available a source of calcium, give regularly a vitamins supplement and, if possible, minerals. Do you feed her legumes (like lentils, mung beans, peas)? Just for example, lentils are rich in iron. 

As she has started to walk and fly again (so now she can easily move and go out from the nest for pooping), I would wait a few days and see how her poops go (give a medication like for example an antibiotic without a real necessity could just be harmful). As I told you, poops of a female sitting on eggs are usually large, "ugly" and a bit smelly. In add consider that stress in birds (surely paralysis is a stressful episode) can cause an intestinal flora disorder. If you could find a supplement containing B-glucans and mannan oligisaccharides it could help a lot in that case.

If you don't see any improvement in a few days, it could really be a disease like coccidiosis or a bacterial infections, etc. (stress is a factor which increases the risk of developing some disease or maybe the disease was in the incubation period or it was a minor disease which got worse because of not pooping for long period). In any case, at your place, I would carefully monitor her for a few days and see how her poops are. How are them today? Is she eating normally? Is she still drinking more (btw I have a question: has she started to drink more when you started to give her ACV water? I remember that an Italian vet said that it's normal that some pigeons drink more when you give them ACV water because they love it)?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

We wrote at the same time.. I'm glad she is doing better today and that her poops have started to become "normal". 

As I said minerals are really important for birds, even amino acids are (feathers are essentialy composed by keratin, so by amino acids). A good and complete vitamin supplement usually contains them. Maybe you could post a photo of the one you bought.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Thank You Colombina for your detailed message. I would watch her for a few days now. Yes, she drinks more when I put ACV in water. I'm posting the amino acid mixture that I have bought. I don't want her to lay eggs in near months, but donno how to do this as she lives in with her partner.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SumanaC said:


> The greenish tint in her poop is gone today though it's still muddy, the colour has turned brown. She is eating normally. Drinking and wanted to get out from her cage. Not sitting with feathers ruffled as before. I'm giving ACV, Probiotic, D3, Vit A B complex, Vit E along with Calcium.
> One more thing Jay3 *I have a packet of powdered amino acid with multi vitamin and mineral I bought from Amazon. Can I use it for them? Plz advise.*


*

*

Post a pic? Is it for birds? You need to pick a good vitamin supplement and use that. Giving all different ones isn't really good, as vitamins can be over done also. The vitamin D3 is important though. A good vitamin, and a good supplement with both calcium and D3 would be great.

You won't stop her from laying eggs, but you can make sure that she has the calcium/D3 she needs to help her. Never take away eggs unless you replace them with fake eggs.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

How is she doing today? 

I read online about some suggestions concerning how to discourage eggs laying (like removing nest materials, increasing the hours of darkness, etc) but honestly I don't think they could work. Probably the only solution is giving sometimes a "holiday" to the female separating her from her husband (I know it's sad separate a couple but a break from eggs laying could be healthy). Personally I'm thinking about this solution. Could you maybe find a way to separate them sometimes? 

Just to get you an idea about a complete vitamin supplement, I'm going to copy the constituents of Omni-Vit Oropharma Versele Laga:

Analytical constituents

Nutritional additives 

Vitamin A 3.000.000 IU/kg 

Vitamin D3 220.000 IU/kg 

Vitamin E 7.700 mg/kg 

Vitamin C 13.000 mg/kg 

Vitamin K3 650 mg/kg
D-pantothenate calcium 2.400 mg/kg 

Vitamin B1 900 mg/kg 

Vitamin B2 3.500 mg/kg 

Vitamin B6 1.300 mg/kg 

Vitamin B12 6 mg/kg 

Niacin 17.500 mg/kg
Biotin 33 mg/kg 

Folic acid 330 mg/kg 

L-lysine 15.000 mg/kg 

DL-methionine 20.000 mg/kg 

E1 - Iron (iron sulphate monohydrate) 2.500 mg/kg 

E2 - Iodine (calcium iodate, anhydrous) 100 mg/kg

E4 - Copper (copper (II) sulphate pentahydrate) 500 mg/kg 

E5 - Manganese (manganese sulphate monohydrate) 5.000 mg/kg 

E6 - Zinc (zinc sulphate monohydrate) 4.500 mg/kg

You could plan what to give to your birds and how many times, I mean make a sort of "timetable" following the directions for use that you can read on the product and the "common rules" for the other things (for example, here the vets suggest to add ACV to the water twice a week). Choose a complete vitamin supplement and give it regularly (usually they are weekly treatment: 2/3 days every week). It's important to give it regularly because vitamins are divided into two main groups: one is stored in the body (vit D is in that group), one is not stored (like, if I'm not wrong, B complex) so a deficiency could develop in a faster way. Then, as we said, vit D3 is needed to absorb the calcium. 
Concerning calcium, personally I always leave available pickstones (which are good sources of calcium and minerals, in add they contain anise, clay, etc) but I think you can't find them there. You could leave always available a bowl containing a source of calcium (something you can easily find in your country as oyster shells, etc) and look for a liquid supplement. 
Regularly give them probiotics too.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

4 days passed I was so tensed. Now she is perfect. Thank you all and thank God. Before closing our discussion I'm gonna post a picture of the supplement for your recheck.


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Here it is


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looks good. I'm glad she is feeling better.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Very goad to hear she is doing better!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

What a good news 😊! I'm really glad to know she is in a perfect health condition now!

Just remember to regularly give her vitamins, calcium, etc and to feed her a large variety of seed and legumes.

I checked the Amino Power, I have never seen it before but it seems a complete and good supplement!


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## SumanaC (Mar 26, 2017)

Thank you all thank you for your concern support care and advices. Yep I'm taking care of her. Will continue with the supplements, actually here in India we have few vet and avian vet is hard to find so when I think of adopting an African Grey Parrot I go back thinking of what to do if she falls ill. Anyways thanks once again see you soon.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

We are all here to help and support each other 😊.

See you soon!


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