# Splayed leg/hip



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

My pigeon when he was about 1 1/2 week old his legs were flat splayed..I banded him...After 1 week its seems he managed to get the band odd from his right leg which was th eonly one splayed at that time, the left was nicely under..tided him for another week... i took the band off: right leg goes sideways.When taped/banded his foot goes outward; when band off it seem its from the right hip. He standed up more often, when band is on, without band it seems his body is too heavy and his weak leg widens up from the hip and his foot also goes to far sideway...I had him tied with a distance of 2 or 2.5 cm...What should i do further, please...I feel so sorry for him...How long should i keep him tied. I was thinking that if tied too close it would affect/widen his hip...Should i tie him from above the knee?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Dima said:


> My pigeon when he was about 1 1/2 week old his legs were flat splayed..I banded him...After 1 week its seems he managed to get the band odd from his right leg which was th eonly one splayed at that time, the left was nicely under..tided him for another week... i took the band off: right leg goes sideways.When taped/banded his foot goes outward; when band off it seem its from the right hip. He standed up more often, when band is on, without band it seems his body is too heavy and his weak leg widens up from the hip and his foot also goes to far sideway...I had him tied with a distance of 2 or 2.5 cm...What should i do further, please...I feel so sorry for him...How long should i keep him tied. I was thinking that if tied too close it would affect/widen his hip...Should i tie him from above the knee?


Try using a sponge like in this link, I would say it needs to be on more than a week. maybe even a month. but change the sponge as he grows.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...g+in+birds+sponge&hl=en&gbv=2&tbm=isch&itbs=1


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is more info, and a picture of the taping.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1193591190044786621MuWGtk


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

*Sponge*

Thank you so much.. i will try the sponge instead of tape (that will make him more comfortable-didn't think about it)..He is already a month old he strated to eat on his own last week...i assume that he will try to fly pretty soon..is he going to take off in his shed with the banded sponge or he will have to stay like that another month? I hope it's just a matter of time and not that i did something wrong.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

At his age now, you may have to tape. Don't know if the sponge is going to be enough. Can you post pics after you get him into his sponge. This has to be corrected now, or it will be too late. His legs will not be able to be fixed later on without surgery.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Hi Jay3,

thank you for your interest in helping my squab...i can't believe i cried yesterday after i put the sponge..as a matter of fact i put one sponge from anckle to the knee (so wide) and another from the knee up..he wouldn't be able to move when his father came to feed him, so i took out his upper sponge and now when he would try to walk he would fall on his beak with his legs behind, but at one point he would find his way standing up..before going to work i felt so sorry so i took two snapping rings put them one on each anckle with rubber band...i came early from work beeing worried that he tried to fly and fell in the pigeons bath tub...indeed i couldn't find him in the nest..finally found him; he was wondering on the floor happy looking like . He didn't like to see me..he knows when i touch him i touch his legs..i managed to take his rubber band and rings off and got the pic...if i don't get any other idea untill your next response i will tape him with Fabric Dressing Strip (strong bandage) i just bought from the store. For some reason he is so strong that with the tape he always managed to stretch it at the lower part (see in the pic), and i think that's why his legs are the way they are..or may be he was taped too tight...i can blame only myself.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I have attached pic in my facebook..i hope you have an account..it's public: Splyed leg - title of the album.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope you don't mind. I got the pics and posted them here.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'd say that they are too tight. And the foot is still pointing outward. Please tell me that isn't duct tape........
I think you are going to have to try to get them more like the bird in the link I posted. I don't know if it is too late to bring that foot back to facing forward. Do you have a tape that isn't going to stick to his skin, as they have to be checked daily for circulation, and removed now and then and retaped.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks for posting my pics.
Yes, it is duct tape..but is folded so there is no sticky side. I am working on something like is the link, but with a sponge. Will take pics. so you please tell me your opinion. 

PS Need to learn how to put url image.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Be gone for a short while but will be back. There are directions on the sight somewhere about posting pics. I do it through Photobucket.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

As well as taping the legs together like Jay3 suggests, you could also make him a pair of "shoes"
Stand him on a sheet of card or paper & draw round his foot.
Cut out the "diamond" shape leaving a slight notch for each toenail and a corner tab at one side of the front. 
Transfer the pattern to a piece of semi stiff plastic (like maybe from a milk bottle or margerine tub) & cut out two of them. Make a small hole in each tab. (you can use stiff card, but if he treads on fresh poop it will soften card and its more likely to come off)
Place one under each foot with the tabs pointing inwards, & using Surgical tape, tape securely. (see diagram below)
Attatch a rubber band or piece of elastic through the tab holes, tight enough to draw front toes round to point in forward direction, but also slack enough to allow a bit of stretching. 
Dont use string as there has to be some give to allow him to try and walk, otherwise he will just fall over.
When he does try to walk, the elastic will stretch but it will also draw the raised foot inward slightly so he will take some time to get used to it.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Dima said:


> PS Need to learn how to put url image.


When you post, use the advanced option, and instead of using the url link (







), use the picture link (







) and insert the link to the pic in the popup box.
(You can only post 4 pics in any one post and any smileys count as a pic)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Quazar said:


> As well as taping the legs together like Jay3 suggests, you could also make him a pair of "shoes"
> Stand him on a sheet of card or paper & draw round his foot.
> Cut out the "diamond" shape leaving a slight notch for each toenail and a corner tab at one side of the front.
> Transfer the pattern to a piece of semi stiff plastic (like maybe from a milk bottle or margerine tub) & cut out two of them. Make a small hole in each tab. (you can use stiff card, but if he treads on fresh poop it will soften card and its more likely to come off)
> ...



Wow, I'm impressed. Thanks for the info and even the diagrams. You're good!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow. Thanks Quazar for the booties. Jay i am still new with the pics; i opened an acc with Photobucket as advised; eventualy i will figure out to paste them..I hope you can see the 3 pic from the link. 
I did it late last night. What are your opinion. Are the legs too far apart now?I measured from between his hips (distance was for about 3 fingers.lol that seemed too much) and used 2 fingers distance betwwen his legs.

It's great to have your support in this matter.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

nearly there lol
youve used the "insert image" button but actually posted the link to the whole album rather than the individual pics, hence the reason the pic wont show.
I presume this is what you were trying to do 




























EDIT: lol seeyou edited it and now showing link to album, that works just as good lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wow! I do believe that will work. Looks good to me. Looks better than what I'd probably have gotten. Now just make sure you check them daily for good circulation. Will that be hard to replace if you have too? Are those cut from make up sponges?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes, they are cosmetic sponges(his leg are souronded by them).As a matter of fact they come exactly the size i needed and 2 in a bag ($1) they are not too spongy and not to stiff.I didn't check his leg for circulation, but he kinnda hops around. He made friendship with two other 6 weeks old birds who take care of him by giving affection i would say; they nibble and clean his feathers at the neck.

Now i have another problem with his father. He is a beautiful white bird which i saved it from the a parking lot by a Plaza last August.It took me tree days to get him caught. Even the Animal Protection which i called left me behind (when the saw the bird able to fly)and they had said they have an important situation: a coyote. Back to my story:He/Patota was tied around the anckles and toes with what it seemed to me thick hair and even nots. Two toes are diformed from the ties. But there is one toe that is swallon now and he is limping from it. Where he had the tie, the muscle/meat did not heal(is close to the bone), in a sense that it looks that he still has a tie around it (but it does not) and right by it it's swallon and more red. What is your advice.

Again, thank you so much...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Patota at the mall- tied legs


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a picture of the foot? I knew of another bird that had all the string removed, but the scar tissue kept forming around the toe, just as if it were the string or hair. But it was just the scar tissue. Eventually, this tough scar tissue did cut off the circulation, and the bird lost the toe unfortunately.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes Jay, he forms that scar tissue just like a plastic string (first time i thought he grows a nail where scar is;lol). I take it off whenever i see him having problems, but this time it looks serious because even thou i took it out and cleaned it, he doesn't get better.
He's laying on the egg now. Don't like to bother him.I will take a pic. tonight...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh the poor thing. It must be painful. Don't know what can be done other than removing the toe and allowing it to heal.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Patota (Big Foot) is doing better..i sprayed him with Propolis...















this pic didn't come out too good


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

OH, that looks sore. Wonder what a vet would do?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Wow! I do believe that will work. Looks good to me. Looks better than what I'd probably have gotten. Now just make sure you check them daily for good circulation. Will that be hard to replace if you have too? Are those cut from make up sponges?


Hi Jay,
It means a lot to me your words. Beacause the future of my brid in laying in my hands a feel fear of doing wrong nomatter what i do or think to do. I was looking at a skeleton to figure out why his knees are getting closer and he pushes the feet outwards. As the double make up sponge was tightenging his leg i accomplished to keep a straight leg and feet, but the circulation cuts off and his cushions gets swollen. I followed your advise and made a new tie with one sponge in between and the tie around his leg quite loose(the white side of the bandage only around leg). I will try not worry anymore if his feet are pointing sideways. I will put a pic soon of my new tie.

I wonder how did the pigeon from the first link sent in this thread succeded whithout all these problems. It was 6 weeks old and had a very bad splayed leg. In the picture the bird stand upright. My pigeon would not even stand completely. His knees are always bent like the squabs.He also has weak muscle.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, do your birds get calcium and vitamin D3?
As far as the bird in that picture from that link, yes he turned out well. Maybe you had yours a bit too tight?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

YES i give them CA & D3 in the water.
Today i saw the squab had a wound at the leg he pulls outwarD; beacuse it loose around the ankle; more like a healing wound as it was yellowish (may be pus). I left him free for a few hours and put polysporin. He looks better taking into account it was only one week. Now He's back in the tie. I will see how the wound heals..if not gotta take a decision..


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Dima said:


> YES i give them CA & D3 in the water.
> Today i saw the squab had a wound at the leg he pulls outwarD; beacuse it loose around the ankle; more like a healing wound as it was yellowish (may be pus). I left him free for a few hours and put polysporin. He looks better taking into account it was only one week. Now He's back in the tie. I will see how the wound heals..if not gotta take a decision..


hmm difficult one, too tight & it will cause circulation probs, but too loose & it will chaffe. Maybe try a "micropore tape" wrap on the legs before putting on the tie, tape would wear but protect leg for a bit.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is this wound from the other wrap you were using, as it was kind of low toward the foot? Is it where you can put the wrap a bit higher and still be practical?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

The wrap around his leg is loose and that gives mobility to the leg in the wrap. The wound is only at the leg he pushes sideways and at the bottom/edge of the wrap(which sometimes he tries to take it out by pulling up his foot). The wrap around his leg is the white part of the first aid bandage (not the sticky as thought the skin cannot breathe).
He improved the last day. He stands better and he takes risks to fly anywhere and he eats well. My heart feels better lately. I need more patience for 2-3 weeks. Same for my "baby" pigeon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. If he flies, does he have trouble landing? Wouldn't want him to get hurt.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

No problem landing..he is very daring...He tried even to get on the artificial tree we have (thin branches), but here was a problem at landing and he get stuck with the branch between the legs. The wound did not progress with pus (i put around his leg wrap antibiotic ointment so when he moves his leg there's not much friction and if there is then the ointment would help - i hope), but i think it bothers him because he keep the foot up in the air. He tries to stretch his legs before taking off...I feel sorry for him; he doesn't look like a proud bird with his head up. Either he's sad, bored or in pain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a pic of his new wrap? Birds don't have pus like we do. It's more a solid.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

New wrap cut in angle to pull his left leg









Regardless how may types of wraps, he will always bend his knees closer and widen the distance betwen his feet by pulling sideway:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That looks pretty good. The only way you could probably improve it is by using something that doesn't stretch at all. Is he stretching it out down near his feet, or is that the way you are wrapping it? Wider at the bottom?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

He stretches it... That's why i made the cut in an angle so at least when he stretches it would be pararel. But then another thing: he bends his knees (or ankles more specific) and curves the sponge up which makes it look wide at the bottom...If i rplace the sponge with something rigid, he cannot move.
Today he flew on a round stick; his toes were well wrapping the stick and his posture looked better.
I need ideas.. i tried everything with/without sponge, with rings and rubber band, wide or tight -same problem...with people is easy: just immobilize the leg; i cannot take such drastic decision.
Thanks Jay for following up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ya know, you're doing a great job. The toes pointing a bit outward may be the best you're going to get. Still lots better than how they were. And I think he will do okay that way. Keep on the way you are. Just make sure to keep the bandage on, but of course, check daily for circulation. Keep us updated. You really are doing well.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Newest Wrap:
I found a way for Pata (his/her name) not to roll his leg in the loop: i rolled self adhesive non sticky on the skin around his leg(not too tight), then i put the bandage with the sicky side rolled on the non sticky adhesive and in between the sponge.

Now he cannot bend his knees and pull outward his feet as much as before and it does not cut his circulation. His feet are not swollen and it's been the 2nd day. Unfortunately he cannot move, but he does a kind of hop-walking.
He seems OK, he flies everywhere, even stands on the stick, which i think is best for him. But i noticed he is comfortable to stay on the edge of places, sideway where the foot likes to grab the edge with his little and middle toe. Weird, but i think this may ease the pulling to the outward position of the foot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the pics. You're doing a great job. I'm praying this will correct the problem for him. I think you're right, that while he is perching, he has to keep his feet straight. How well does he land when he flies?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

He lands very well. Never has a problem with landing. Only when he is eager to walk he pulls one foot (i don't know how exactly) he loses balance and he falls flat on his chest with his legs behind, but by the next two second he stands up; this worries me not to break his hip from the front side. But so far he is still standing, otherwise i think he would sit down all day.
I hope GOD hears your prayers. Thank you.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

My pigeon without wrap; it's been a month since i used the sponge. He looks better.This pics is one of the best. Only when he stands up right he gets good legs position, otherwise they are far apart from each other and twisted knees problem slightly still there.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, how well does he walk?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Not too well..like a duck.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

But he does walk, and they are closer than they were, right?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

They seem closer than before. Before he would walk with his knees inwards and close to the floor; from this point of view he is fine with a bit inward bending.Only when he stands on the stick he gets them close enough to look normal. His front toes do not meet each other so there is a gap as you see in the pic. His middle toes are not pointing forward. Only when he stands on one leg (which is always right leg- the strong one) his toes are in the right position.Once his other foot goes on the floor his good leg goes back to the side ( i was wondering if the problem is from higher from the joint with the spine). When he lays down his left wing is always higher than the other.
When he walks, his feet don't go forward, but sideway forward (not lateral) and he always seems to be stepping in a rush and he makes big steps (probably from the gap between his legs)

I will try to make a video and post it on youtube and put the link here.

I called the vet and they said that they do not fix splayed legs at this age. (2 months old).And the wild life hospital in Toronto sugested to put him to sleep. My God..he is happy, he even tried to mate with his buddy, a small roller; he jumped a few times on her back with no success,sliding down... but they enjoyed it, as after each time they would do their dance of happiness...

What's next to do? I would like to get at least an x-ray to find out where his problem is. They said it would cost me $120. And then if i find out where the problem is, can i still do something? 
Is he in pain? Every time i see him standing on one leg i wonder if his left hip/leg hurts or may be he is just comfortable. One friend told me that happy pigeons stay on one leg..LOL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeons often stand on one leg. I don't think it's because he is in pain. I really believe it to be a simple splayed leg. If it had been taped properly at a younger age, it would have turned out straighter. It is improved, but probably as much as you will be able to get it at this point. I have heard of them fixing splayed legs with surgery, but really don't know much about that. He can probably live a happy life as he is. He will have a hard time on hard slippery surfaces, but other than that, I think he would probably do fairly well. Of course, you wouldn't want him to get over weight, as that would put more stress on his legs. What is your set up like where you keep your birds?
I know how hard you tried for him, and you did make a difference for him. Good job!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is a video of him walking. As a matter of fact he does not like to walk too much. Right now he is in the basement house with us and i brought his young friends over, since the shed we have is too small and the grown up pigeons are agressive with youngsters.
He is very smart..we covered the tiles with carpets; when he walks on tile and feels is slippery he walks back on the carpets. I put towels where is likes to land and he lands only on places he trusts.

Yes, Jay, if i did it the right way since i found him spayled, he could have been better now. I didn't think it mattered how you tie the bird. I was wrongfuly told to tie him tight and that's all. I wish i came across you from the very beginning....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rds6pbSoaow&feature=youtu.be


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, you did a good job. He is okay this way, as he can get around and he can walk. Just don't let him get over weight, and I wouldn't put him in where he would be on slippery surfaces, as that could just cause the legs to go outward. Now, if you should come across this again, although I hope you don't, you will know what to do. You have helped him tremendously. Also, I don't remember if I asked you about giving them calcium and vitamin D3. That will help to keep him stronger too.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes..i have to push my BF to build the new shed. We have most of the materials. I brought him books as he requested about decks and roofs. 
About Vitamins. I have left now only a liquid bottle for humans: it says 1000ui Calcium, 400ui D3, 200ui Phosphorous for 2 tablespoons. I put in a glass of water 1 tablespoon. Is that all right..?i change it every day even thou is only 1/4 drank by 5 birds.
They come out only in the evening in a 1 meter high and 1 meter wide metal cage made with mesh. I tried to get them out in the morning to get sunlight..they just don't like it..they behave scared and fight for the exit..I also give them grinded chicken eggshels (which he loves it).
Thank you for advise to watch him not put overweight...i feed him everytime i see him, since he is my spoiled one - i try to compensate him with treats for the guilt i feel). He also loves hard whole Moong Peas a lot.
I will pet myself on the back for the good job i did. Thanks Jay.

PS And for those who are going to use the wrap..do not use the self adesive stretchy bandage.it's rough and injures the scales of the skin; use the white soft regular conforming gauze /bandage around the leg before putting the warp.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would just pick up some vitamins for birds, as they have different requirements than we do, and vitamins can be over done. Not good for them. A bottle of bird vitamins isn't very costly, although it does depend on how many birds you are giving it to. They have lots of products out there. You can use chicken eggshells that have been cleaned, and then microwaved for a couple of minutes to kill any bacteria. Some just put them in the oven for a bit for the same reason.


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