# Basement Coop



## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

Either I've lost it or I'm getting right into this...depends on who you ask..lol
I've built this coop in my basement. I'll show off the pic and then explain why I'm doing this.








The problem where I live is the cold. My coops are in an unheated garage. I've brought the 4 birds inside the house into the new warmer basement coop so they can mate up and provide us with some young which would be well hand trained. I am hoping to start a wedding release business come spring and would like birds that are very use to being handled. It is also my hope to train them to fly from release boxes to a portable coop. That might be a different can of worms all together. Sping doesn't come truely here until the last week of April. Is there anything the birds might need? Would they be ok with just house hold lighting until April? They do get mutli-vitamin drops in water which does include D3. Thanks Gille


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The birds need sunlight and fresh air, a basement may be too damp also, which is not good for pigeons, as far as raising young, best to wait till spring and train in the summer. i would let them pair up, then seperate untill time to breed and put them together so they get down to business, hatch some ybs and then they will be close to the same age and then train all young birds to trap, then you can start the road training. they really need sun and air even when it is cold, they are pretty hardy, they just need a draft free, clean, dry loft with penty of perches, the ybs will need their own section so you can train them and not let any prisonors or birds on eggs/babies out on accident.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Could you possibly have a flight pen of some sort outside, near the basement, that you could somehow get them to kind of easily? Then on clear days they could go out for a few hours. I know the sunlight is pretty important. Otherwise it sounds like a good idea, as Spirit Wings mentioned you want to make sure it's not damp but I know a lot of basements are built to last. I don't know personally hehe, I don't think we even have basements here in California. No tornados to hide from. . .just earthquakes.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

maryjane said:


> Could you possibly have a flight pen of some sort outside, near the basement, that you could somehow get them to kind of easily? Then on clear days they could go out for a few hours. I know the sunlight is pretty important. Otherwise it sounds like a good idea, as Spirit Wings mentioned you want to make sure it's not damp but I know a lot of basements are built to last. I don't know personally hehe, I don't think we even have basements here in California. No tornados to hide from. . .just earthquakes.


yes agreed, they really need an aviary to be healthy.....


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

You could use the full spectrum florescent bulbs in the basement BUT, it is my understanding that a bird needs full exposure for 12 hours at a close range of 12 inches under those bulbs to equal one (1) hour of REAL sunshine on their feathers. Even if you only took them outside in a wire cage for an hour each day, it would benefit them more than an expensive investment in the full spectrum bulbs, which are grossly overpriced.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*dry basement*

Our basement is dry.. we have a dehumidifier that keeps it that way. The section where the coop is, is also where our furnace is so it's always been driest there. I plan on making the portable coop soon. I'm thinking crate the young up take them outside to the portable coop and set them in it and feed them. Repeat for a few days. then sit them on the portable coop and teach them to go in for the feed. Move the coop from here on with each training session so the don't get use to any one location. Eventually toss them so they learn land on it from short flights of up to 10 feet and go in for feed. Then out to continually different locations for actual flights always returning for feed. I figure that will be by spring time and ready for wedding cerimonies etc.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Gille, 

I keep my pigeons in a basement room as well. But you really should consider trying to make it brighter or your birds won't breed properly. Rainbows is right about the full spectrum lighting, it's expensive and it only works if they are fairly close to the light source. 

Birds need the vitamin D3 to make use of calcium and this vitamin is normally gained from sunlight exposure. You should make sure you're giving a multi vitamin at least but you may want to consider offering a specific calcium/vit D combo supplement.

I use timers to control the duration of artificial light in my pigeon room, but there are also 2 windows in the room that let in quite a bit of natural light. I use florescent lights because they are brighter too.

Another thing I use in my room is an air purifier to keep the dust down and for air circulation. In the warmer months I open the windows a bit too to allow fresh air but during the winter it's too cold so the air purifier really helps for me.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*lighting*

very cool, i have a normal household light bulb in there and a spare one i turn on during the day..they do get vitamin D3 and calcium in the way of oyster gritt. we have no windows.. I'm wondering about adding cod liver oil to their diet? It is a high vit D source as well as calcium..and omegs and more. They recomend it for cats who stay indoors. Only takes a few drops because of the smaller size of a cat so I would guess a few drops in the feed would do my 4 birds. Tressa seems to have the lowdown on it
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/cod-liver-oil-19952.html


> Yes, it can be toxic so only give a couple of drops over the seed once a month. Be sure to find a good organic source that is mercury free. It not only has Vitamin A, D3, Vitamin E but also EPA and DHA. Vitamin D aids in the absorption and balance of calcium/phosphorus ratio. It is an excellent supplement when birds do not get enough sunshine, and a fertility aid, and to help hens with egg related issues-along with calcium/magnesium.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*Iodine is necessary*



> Iodine is necessary for normal physical and mental growth & development, as well as for proper lactation and reproduction. Iodine aids in the development and functioning of the thyroid gland, controls the production of energy, and helps burn excess fat by stimulating the metabolism. Be aware that a well-functioning thyroid gland is essential to the proper mental development and the condition of feathers & skin. Additionally, an iodine deficiency causes a enlarged thyroid gland, slow mental reaction, poor feather condition, weight gain, and/or loss of physical & mental vigor.


http://www.gamerooster.com/spotlight/tonic.htm
seems there are alot of good things the birds could use many which are not overly costly.


> Iron is part of hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of the blood. Iron deficient birds tire easily because their bodies are starved for oxygen. Iron is also part of myoglobin, which helps muscle cells store oxygen. Without enough iron, ATP (the fuel the body runs on) cannot be properly synthesized. As a result, some iron-deficient birds become fatigued even when their hemoglobin levels are normal
> Iron Tonic
> 1 Tablespoon (10ml) of Lugols Aqueous Iodine Solution (must be aqueous iodine)
> 3 Tablespoons (30ml) of Parish's Food Iron Tonic (or any iron tonic for humans)
> 3 Tablespoons (30ml) of Cytacon B12 vitamin liquid


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If you insists on having an underground loft, then provide vitamins and minerals to your birds as mentioned by people here. You probably also have to control the lighting environment so your birds know when to moult properly.

Check this also. Apparently long time ago some pigeons were kept underground chambers as secret. 

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/israel/jerusalem-temple-mount.htm

You don't need to read everything, just do "find" pigeon(s) as keyword. It is about Solomon's Stables.

I saw a tv show on that as well and there was 1 pair of pigeon still hiding beneath the ground.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The pigeons body produces vitamin D from ultraviolet rays from sun light. Supplement diet with cod liver oil. Another source that contains D is barley. Supplements also can be used......I forgot why you do not want or can't build a loft for them .?.....even an aviary used on nice days would help, to me if you are going to have a business with release, you are going to need plenty of birds, there will be losses when training, and you will need a flight team when the rest are on eggs, the better housed they are the healthier they will be and that is what is going to keep you in business.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Gille said:


> very cool, i have a normal household light bulb in there and a spare one i turn on during the day..*they do get vitamin D3 and calcium in the way of oyster gritt.* we have no windows.. I'm wondering about adding cod liver oil to their diet? It is a high vit D source as well as calcium..and omegs and more. They recomend it for cats who stay indoors. Only takes a few drops because of the smaller size of a cat so I would guess a few drops in the feed would do my 4 birds. Tressa seems to have the lowdown on it
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/cod-liver-oil-19952.html


Hi Gille, 

As far as I know, there is no vit D in oyster shell grit, this is a calcium & other mineral source only. Cod liver oil is a great source of vit A and some D. Without vitamin D3, pigeons cannot make use of the calcium they ingest. However, cod liver oil has long been recommended by the old time pigeon fanciers to promote good health. 

If you don't have adequate lighting in your basement, the birds will be reluctant to breed. This is your goal, isn't it..to breed pigeons for wedding releases? If it's too dark and dreary, the birds will slow down on breeding because they are generally governed by the amount of "daylight" and the length of days like in summer.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*This is our coop and info*

*Vitamins*
We do have Vita-Sol Liquid Multi-Vitamin which is added to the birds water daily. It has Vit A, D3, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Vit B6, Niacinamide, d-Oantothenic Acid, choline.
I plan on giving the Cod Liver Oil once a month according to the info I found on Pigeon Talk. I will mix the cod liver oil with olive oil to help it to spread more evenly over their feed.
*Calcium*
The calcium they recieve comes from Oyster Gritt. It is mixed with red gritt.
*Lighting*


> If you don't have adequate lighting in your basement, the birds will be reluctant to breed.


I know these pics do not seem very bright but the litghting to the naked eye is almost too bright. (but it is not UV lighting)
Here are pics of the coop taken _without_ the flash on.
























Our one garage coop is no brighter but it does have an aviary. The rear garage coop however is much darker and yet this has not stopped breeding. It seems to have been prefered by some of the pairs.
*Aviary*
We still have about 11 Rollers in the garage coops which I am looking for a new home for. Males in one females in the other. Once they are relocated and the coops cleaned in the spring both basement breeding pairs and their young will be moved to the garage coop and Aviary.
*Sunlight*
In the mean time (during the winter) I will box the birds that are not egg sitting or chick sitting. Perhaphs females in the morning once they leave the eggs and males later after they have taken their turn out to the aviary for some sun. 


> Another source that contains D is barley.


Vit-D found in barley, thanks, good thing to remember.
*Cold Wether Problem*
Here in Ontario the winters are too cold for breeding unless one has a heated coop. Best I can afford is to bring the 2 breeding pairs inside the basement.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Gille said:


> Either I've lost it or *I'm getting right into this*...depends on who you ask..lol
> Gille


This is an interesting thread Gille. I actually contemplated this a couple of years ago too, so I guess I almost lost it too. You are actually getting into this art of pigeonry!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille said:


> *Vitamins*
> We do have Vita-Sol Liquid Multi-Vitamin which is added to the birds water daily. It has Vit A, D3, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Vit B6, Niacinamide, d-Oantothenic Acid, choline.
> I plan on giving the Cod Liver Oil once a month according to the info I found on Pigeon Talk. I will mix the cod liver oil with olive oil to help it to spread more evenly over their feed.
> *Calcium*
> ...


why do you want to breed in the winter?, esp. where you are. it will be the dead of winter when it is time to trap train and fly the ybs, that is if you get any in the basement. Ive heard of putting them on lights and that may get them going, that is a good plan to get them in the sun as that helps them get use of the vit D. I would 'nt hurry things just so you can have birds for weddings in the spring, you will have weddings in summer too, and don't forget the funerals, that is all times of the year. you also will want to exercise and fly the team when not releasing them so a place they can trap in to on a loft is needed if you want to loft fly them to keep them in shape, and not have to take them down the road. do you have a trap going into the garage loft?...just a thought...


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*Why start breeding now?*

*Our Plan*
I have three daughters. One is 14, one 9 and one 8. 
1) I want to start this business to give them both a job and an income to look forward to.
2) An income which feeds the birds and helps out with expenses such as better loft conditions during the winter.
3) Anything more helps suppliment my income. Gas etc.
In oder to have a wedding release business we must have....birds.
In order to have enough birds by mid-spring to beginning of summer we must start the breeding time soon.
2 pairs producing two young each, aprox every two months, would give us 12 young by May. The eldest young being about 5 months old. They will be well handled over the winter months and use to being boxed up and taken outside to the garage aviary. Come spring i will start training them to fly from their carrying boxes to the portable coop which will be used during the summer for wedding releases.
*Re-designing the garage coops*
Once our remaining colored Rollers have been given new homes (the are being given away for free http://sudbury.kijiji.ca/c-pets-birds-for-sale-Roller-Pigeons-W0QQAdIdZ88165084)I want to re-design the two coops in the garage making them better for year round use. 
*Temporary Basement Coop*
The Basement coop I hope is only for this winter.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille said:


> *Our Plan*
> I have three daughters. One is 14, one 9 and one 8.
> 1) I want to start this business to give them both a job and an income to look forward to.
> 2) An income which feeds the birds and helps out with expenses such as better loft conditions during the winter.
> ...


The thing is, when training, you do not want to wait till they are too old, 8 weeks old is good IMO, because, older than that, they get strong on the wing, but do not have enough experience and can get too far off flying, and can't find the camper/loft...why the portable coop, homers can be road trained to come to your home loft. If one does go off for a trip and you can not stay all day to wait, he will not be trained to go back home.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*why the portable coop*

Training will start more simply for those born earlier..lots of handling and hand feeding and even train them to go into a carrying box to get feed . I can do this in my basement when they are very young. Come sping continue teaching them outside.
A portable coop can be taken to the wedding site... the birds return quickly and can then be put into carrying boxes and taken to a second wedding site the same day. They get fed a little for re-entering the coop each time. but are not over fed. The only have to fly short distances so it is not hard on them and it realy speeds up the amount of time I would spend running home to fetch them so we could do another wedding. Other reason is we have two white homers but also have two white rollers. Rollers make the short flight more interesting to watch. They are also smaller and are use to staying close to the coop. This helps to even keep the young homers closer.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille said:


> A portable coop can be taken to the wedding site... the birds return quickly and can then be put into carrying boxes and taken to a second wedding site the same day. They get fed a little for re-entering the coop each time. but are not over fed. The only have to fly short distances so it is not hard on them and it realy speeds up the amount of time I would spend running home to fetch them so we could do another wedding. Other reason is we have two white homers but also have two white rollers. Rollers make the short flight more interesting to watch. They are also smaller and are use to staying close to the coop. This helps to even keep the young homers closer.


ahhh, the rollers...cool, that make more sense now. someone posted here that had pet rollers and he took them in his car to a park and had them trained to come back on comand, it was pretty neat, but I would think twice about the homers age when training, as before, they get strong on the wing after 8 weeks old and may take a "trip" and your camperloft will be on it's way somewhere else and he would be lost.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

i think you are gonna find this to be a very dissapointing method of training your homers .. I mean do you know someone that actually trains their homers to a traveling box  homers are amazing but I think their homing ability will only take them so far and a box that just apears in foreigh places will in my opinion not count as home to them ..I think your looking for to many shortcuts here and your going to end up losing way to many birds with this method of training ..hand taming doesnt equal homing instinct and as spirit wings pointed out if your planning on letting birds out for the first time at the age of 5 months old you will be lucky to have them stay around wether you have rollers flying out with them or not ,but thats just my 2 cents on the subject and experiance with older birds in training .. good luck on your ventures thou homers and rollers are worlds apart when it comes to flying and their ability to find their way home.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> i think you are gonna find this to be a very dissapointing method of training your homers .. I mean do you know someone that actually trains their homers to a traveling box  homers are amazing but I think their homing ability will only take them so far and a box that just apears in foreigh places will in my opinion not count as home to them ..I think your looking for to many shortcuts here and your going to end up losing way to many birds with this method of training ..hand taming doesnt equal homing instinct and as spirit wings pointed out if your planning on letting birds out for the first time at the age of 5 months old you will be lucky to have them stay around wether you have rollers flying out with them or not ,but thats just my 2 cents on the subject and experiance with older birds in training .. good luck on your ventures thou homers and rollers are worlds apart when it comes to flying and their ability to find their way home.


well said, agreed


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*basement coop*

So far I've been told I'd be lucky to get my birds to mate in the basement. I was down with them just this morning and found Light Foot or male homer wooing away at White Foot our female homer, who was sitting on the same shelf with him. I'm pretty certain things will take their course soon enough.
All 4 birds had not liked being handled much before they were moved into the new coop. White Foot was the worst but she is starting to settle. They've only been down there a few days and already 3 of the 4 can be handled. The two Rollers will sit on our hands and shoulders. 
I'm not looking to do more with these birds than to obtain young in an enviroment which has little or no stress. To do that i need the adults to be well use to us and being handled.
Once I get some young I intend to mix spome of the homer and roller chicks. I want a sleeker version of the Roller. Small, easy to handle, hopefully fancy in flight, with a willingness to stay close to where they are released.
yes I have big goals! I intend to keep them. I appreciate input, especially when it is constructive. I will continue to seek help and share how things are going. I do not expect things to happen over night nor do i see myself as taking short cuts. I know this will take time just as anything worth while does. If the pure homer young do not take to the training with the pure Rollers it will not harm my plans. They will always be within a short flight to home whilst being trained. After all who in their right mind would take them so far when young and trying something new with the breed? Yes this might help seal their fate. They may well target home. Thats fine. I can always train them to race...lol That is one reason why I have both types of bird. The second is to possibly get a mixed breed that will be more suitable size and shape wise. That will take more time. thanks, Gille


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille said:


> So far I've been told I'd be lucky to get my birds to mate in the basement. I was down with them just this morning and found Light Foot or male homer wooing away at White Foot our female homer, who was sitting on the same shelf with him. I'm pretty certain things will take their course soon enough.
> All 4 birds had not liked being handled much before they were moved into the new coop. White Foot was the worst but she is starting to settle. They've only been down there a few days and already 3 of the 4 can be handled. The two Rollers will sit on our hands and shoulders.
> I'm not looking to do more with these birds than to obtain young in an enviroment which has little or no stress. To do that i need the adults to be well use to us and being handled.
> Once I get some young I intend to mix spome of the homer and roller chicks. I want a sleeker version of the Roller. Small, easy to handle, hopefully fancy in flight, with a willingness to stay close to where they are released.
> yes I have big goals! I intend to keep them. I appreciate input, especially when it is constructive. I will continue to seek help and share how things are going. I do not expect things to happen over night nor do i see myself as taking short cuts. I know this will take time just as anything worth while does. If the pure homer young do not take to the training with the pure Rollers it will not harm my plans. They will always be within a short flight to home whilst being trained. After all who in their right mind would take them so far when young and trying something new with the breed? Yes this might help seal their fate. They may well target home. Thats fine. I can always train them to race...lol That is one reason why I have both types of bird. The second is to possibly get a mixed breed that will be more suitable size and shape wise. That will take more time. thanks, Gille


hope it all works out for you and your girls, you may have some babies before long, esp. if you see them mate...eggs to follow soon......


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*pictures*

Flash Free Images
What do you think are the chances of getting white young from the black an white male roller (named Dove) and the little pure white female roller at the very back. He is pearl eyed, she does apear to have some orange in her eyes however.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

im not good at genetics. but from what I think you can get both or white which is noncolor. I think white is dominate though and those babies bred back to white may produce even more white birds. this is a good one to post in the genetics thread for the pros to answer. but Im sure you will get some white birds from it, sometime 2 whites can throw some color babies too, just depends on their background.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille, just to let you know, the birds need wider perches, those are not good for their feet, they like ledges or a flat 4x2.......


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*perches*

Mine have been on litterly tree limb perches since the first two rollers we purchased. I even put the V's low enough they could use them at first but as long as a perch is open they use it. Only time i've seen any of them take the flat surfaces is if the perches are full or one of the elder birds decides more than one perch is theirs. I have the same in the aviary and even in there they choose the perch. In th epicture i posted there are two large shelves at the back of the coop. Though they do spend some time there flirting they still go to the perches at night unless there are eggs in the nest. Outside they like the wires and during the warm months thats where ours sit. I know I've heard about the flat perches before. I'll put a few up and let you know if they seem to prefer them. Thanks


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gille said:


> Mine have been on litterly tree limb perches since the first two rollers we purchased. I even put the V's low enough they could use them at first but as long as a perch is open they use it. Only time i've seen any of them take the flat surfaces is if the perches are full or one of the elder birds decides more than one perch is theirs. I have the same in the aviary and even in there they choose the perch. In th epicture i posted there are two large shelves at the back of the coop. Though they do spend some time there flirting they still go to the perches at night unless there are eggs in the nest. Outside they like the wires and during the warm months thats where ours sit. I know I've heard about the flat perches before. I'll put a few up and let you know if they seem to prefer them. Thanks


they most likey like the location of the perches, but that does not mean the perch is good for their feet, they are natually cliff dwellers, not like parrots that can grasp and even eat with their feet, they don't grap perches as well and can get sore and uncomfortable feet, it is a simple thing to do, a high perch they can even lay down on will make them happy.


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> Gille, just to let you know, the birds need wider perches, those are not good for their feet, they like ledges or a flat 4x2.......


I've read that different sized perches are good for birds and I have been reading that pigeons especially like platform like perches - is that the same for doves too? I've recently put a brick for Noddy to stand on (figuring it's flat and might be good for his nails too), but he seems to prefer his regular perch, is that bad for him? Gosh I'm so scared of harming him with my total ignorance.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

penname said:


> I've read that different sized perches are good for birds and I have been reading that pigeons especially like platform like perches - is that the same for doves too? I've recently put a brick for Noddy to stand on (figuring it's flat and might be good for his nails too), but he seems to prefer his regular perch, is that bad for him? Gosh I'm so scared of harming him with my total ignorance.


small wild doves are a little different than pigeons, the doves would do better with different types of perches, just mimik what they do in the wild....


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> small wild doves are a little different than pigeons, the doves would do better with different types of perches, just mimik what they do in the wild....


Sounds like very sound advice, thanks!
Update on brick: had to remove it as Lucky the canary was pecking and eating it! He's a very cheeky little monkey!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Gille said:


> *Mine have been on litterly tree limb perches since the first two rollers we purchased.* I even put the V's low enough they could use them at first but as long as a perch is open they use it. Only time i've seen any of them take the flat surfaces is if the perches are full or one of the elder birds decides more than one perch is theirs. I have the same in the aviary and even in there they choose the perch. In th epicture i posted there are two large shelves at the back of the coop. Though they do spend some time there flirting they still go to the perches at night unless there are eggs in the nest. Outside they like the wires and during the warm months thats where ours sit. I know I've heard about the flat perches before. I'll put a few up and let you know if they seem to prefer them. Thanks


Hi Gille, 

I think that pigeons like and benefit from all sizes and different types of perches, it would seem it exercises their feet. Pigeons generally like and appreciate flat surfaces and perches because they have weak toes and feet compared to other birds. Saying this though, they do seem to "appreciate" rounded perches too and if they can be stable and secure on them. A shaky, insecure rounded perch would not be comfortable for a pigeon and especially if it's too small. A rounded perch should have enough girth so that the pigeons toes don't overlap and become uncomfortable bearing the weight of the bird.


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*flat perches*

I've installed the flat perches. So far they seem to like both.


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