# For the racing folk here



## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

I really would like to get into racing next year. I have been looking at different breeding pairs from sites like CBS Pigeon and such. Now for my question what do you look for in the eye? They allways have a close up.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SB_doves said:



> I really would like to get into racing next year. I have been looking at different breeding pairs from sites like CBS Pigeon and such. Now for my question what do you look for in the eye? They allways have a close up.


Make sure that they can see out of both of them.  Just kidding..........people who believe in eye sign, SWEAR by it,,,,,,people who don't, think it's a bunch of rubbish. I fall into the second catagory. I've got one pair of breeders that throw children with the most beautiful pearl eyes.....but to me, that's all they are is pretty. Don't know if they would mean a thing to the "eye sign" folks. They win races, but I "suspect" it's the breeding and training rather than the color of their eyes........ Unless you study eye sign and know what you are "supposedly" looking for, I wouldn't put to much faith in it.......JMO


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Make sure that they can see out of both of them.  Just kidding..........people who believe in eye sign, SWEAR by it,,,,,,people who don't, think it's a bunch of rubbish. I fall into the second catagory. I've got one pair of breeders that throw children with the most beautiful pearl eyes.....but to me, that's all they are is pretty. Don't know if they would mean a thing to the "eye sign" folks. They win races, but I "suspect" it's the breeding and training rather than the color of their eyes........ Unless you study eye sign and know what you are "supposedly" looking for, I wouldn't put to much faith in it.......JMO



Thankyou I was not sure what the heck I has looking for. Now when there selling of cocks like son of Nitro 6 time first place winner for 200.00 vrs Children that are 750.00. Is it because they raced him and he didn't do well?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SB_doves said:


> Thankyou I was not sure what the heck I has looking for. Now when there selling of cocks like son of Nitro 6 time first place winner for 200.00 vrs Children that are 750.00. Is it because they raced him and he didn't do well?


Nitro was a 6 time winner and has quite a record I see, but it's his children that are $750. They would be squeakers when you get them. You know, it's not necessary to spend that kind of money for race birds and if you paid that for a bird, you would want to keep it as a breeder, not put it in the air. A hawk would love a $750 dinner.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Go back to the CBS web site and look at "Tarbes". He's a Jan Aarden, long distance bird, and his children are $750. We've got a son off of this bird and we paid $150 for him. Only bred two children last year, one was lost and one was hit by a hawk and couldn't be raced. We've got more children this year, so we'll see how they do.......


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Nitro was a 6 time winner and has quite a record I see, but it's his children that are $750. They would be squeakers when you get them. You know, it's not necessary to spend that kind of money for race birds and if you paid that for a bird, you would want to keep it as a breeder, not put it in the air. A hawk would love a $750 dinner.



Oh yes I am with you I wouldn't pay 750.00 for a squeaker I was looking more for Breeders and was woundering why a direct son of nitro was 200.00 sounds kind of cheap. And did they just never race him?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SB_doves said:


> Oh yes I am with you I wouldn't pay 750.00 for a squeaker I was looking more for Breeders and was woundering why a direct son of nitro was 200.00 sounds kind of cheap. And did they just never race him?


Ok. I see what you are talking about. I was looking at a different page, but the "Birds For Sale" page is where you saw this. It's hard to say why they advertise "direct children" for $750 but then turn around and sell one for $200.
You know, some good racers make good breeders also, but then some good racers are just that. Good racers, but don't breed anything that races as good as they did. For $200, the genes are there and the only thing that anyone can do is try it and see what happens. It could be that they raced the bird and it did "ok" or did "nothing" or......they've got so many birds that they need to get rid of some. It's only a 2004 bird, so I would doubt that they bred off of it and if they did it was only for one year and you can't always tell what birds are going to do as a racer from their first year as a young bird. Some of them have to mature a little before they show thier true potential. Our "IF Champion" didn't win her first race until she was 2 years old, but that year she won 5 of 6 races and then next year won 1st 2 times and 2nd 2 times out of 5 races.


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Ok. I see what you are talking about. I was looking at a different page, but the "Birds For Sale" page is where you saw this. It's hard to say why they advertise "direct children" for $750 but then turn around and sell one for $200.
> You know, some good racers make good breeders also, but then some good racers are just that. Good racers, but don't breed anything that races as good as they did. For $200, the genes are there and the only thing that anyone can do is try it and see what happens. It could be that they raced the bird and it did "ok" or did "nothing" or......they've got so many birds that they need to get rid of some. It's only a 2004 bird, so I would doubt that they bred off of it and if they did it was only for one year and you can't always tell what birds are going to do as a racer from their first year as a young bird. Some of them have to mature a little before they show thier true potential. Our "IF Champion" didn't win her first race until she was 2 years old, but that year she won 5 of 6 races and then next year won 1st 2 times and 2nd 2 times out of 5 races.


If you keep answering I am going to keep asking 2 questions is it better to go and get say a Janssen Breeding Pair or is it okay to pick out a good cock and hen? Would Jansenns be able to do a 300 to 400 mile race or are they shorter quicker?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SB_doves said:


> If you keep answering I am going to keep asking 2 questions is it better to go and get say a Janssen Breeding Pair or is it okay to pick out a good cock and hen? Would Jansenns be able to do a 300 to 400 mile race or are they shorter quicker?


That's fine................Janssen's are considered middle distance pigeons I guess. Up to 300 miles. As to what is better, that depends on what you need as far as the distance you would be racing. For instance, the shortest flyer in our combine races distances from 55 miles to about 250 miles. We, on the other hand are on the long end of the combine, so when the short guy is flying 55 miles, our birds are flying 178. When he gets to 250 out birds are flying 370, so it depends on what you need. That's the problem I have with these guys that sell birds. Go to CBS web site and look for distances. You won't find many if any at all. They tell you the bird won 1st against XXX number of birds over and over but what they don't tell you is if the bird won 100, 150 or 400 and 500 mile races consistently. I said before that the Jan Aardens were long distance birds and they suposedly are, but.....our bird won at 166 miles, 276 miles, and 470 miles and she did that 2 years in a row. So, who knows really???


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

If you could give me one book to read or site to go to learn more about the sport where or what would it be?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SB_doves said:


> If you could give me one book to read or site to go to learn more about the sport where or what would it be?


That's one I"ll have to think about..........


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

It's not a book its an online magazine. There are articles you can read each month and it won't cost you anything, but the real meat of the magazine is in the members only section. You will be able to read about every aspect of racing from loft management to the qualities of the birds themselves including eyesign (pros and cons) there are top fliers from everywhere that write articles for the magazine. currently there is a article called,"The Dirtiest game in town" in the free section, read it well and paid heed! 

currently they are offering a one month free subscription for anyone that is interested in checking it out. Once you sign up for the free months subsciption go to.... past authors and read about eyesign as described by Rob Woolliss...... I think you'll enjoy it.

http://www.winningmagazine.nl/homeeng.asp


Oh and by the way most of the eyesign theory is just that theory....it cant be proved one way or another..... what I look for is rich color no matter what the eyesign or color may be...... I believe it can indicate a healthy bird, not neccessarily anything else..... read Woolliss' article and you'll understand.

Main thing I do follow is this; 

I always try to pair a yellow eyed bird, with a pearl. 

Or two yellows together, 

I've found that I don't like how washed out the eye can become with two pearls mated together. 

Now mind you this is just based on my personnal preferance 

Enjoy reading:

Lawman


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

lawman said:


> It's not a book its an online magazine. There are articles you can read each month and it won't cost you anything, but the real meat of the magazine is in the members only section. You will be able to read about every aspect of racing from loft management to the qualities of the birds themselves including eyesign (pros and cons) there are top fliers from everywhere that write articles for the magazine. currently there is a article called,"The Dirtiest game in town" in the free section, read it well and paid heed!
> 
> currently they are offering a one month free subscription for anyone that is interested in checking it out. Once you sign up for the free months subsciption go to.... past authors and read about eyesign as described by Rob Woolliss...... I think you'll enjoy it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Lawman anything else you can drop on me would be great I am a sponge right now.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SB
What I would do is to find local fanciers in your area with good birds. Local clubs are usually looking for new members and would love to help you out with birds. I would get birds from proven families and proven race records. You can spend thousands on birds. I found someone who was willing to help me out. As far as the eyes on CBS webpage, I have yet to see one that I like. I am not a eyesign person, but none have impressed me. I have an Engels bird off of two CBS birds. He is a good breeder and strong dominant bird. I would post my location in here and see who responds to help you out with birds. Are you going to race locally or in the futurities? There are members in my area with good quality stock in my area. Pedigrees that have CBS, Ganus, Belgium breeders in their pedigrees. My advice would be to start with a few good breeders from a proven family and go from there. Quality not Quantity. Warren Smith who posts in here sells birds reasonably. You can try the help the begginer program, look at red rose website. Some say Janssens can go 400 as youngbirds and 500 as old birds. I have some birds off of Vic Millers Davids Perfection who is mainly down from Janssen birds. He won 400 and 500 in the Ill Combine. Janssens are good birds. I have a small hen off of two Ganus birds that were bread off of four direct Janssens from the brothers. She breeds good birds. I would look to the local culb and get birds off of the best winning birds in your area. Suppliment a few birds off select breeds of your choice to cross into your family of birds. I would look for someone who wants to help you. 
Randy Hill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Sales Gimick*



SB_doves said:


> I really would like to get into racing next year. I have been looking at different breeding pairs from sites like CBS Pigeon and such. Now for my question what do you look for in the eye? They allways have a close up.


HI SBDOVE, You must understand that there are people in this sport that believe in eyesign,and thats why the FEATHER MERCHANTS(pigeon sellers) include the eye photo,also there are those that DO NOT believe in eyesign,and the eye photo means nothing to them.If you have not made contact with local racing people DO SO.From these people find out what type of bird is doing best on the race course that you will be flying.Being that you live in SANTA BARBARA,which is on the coast your race courses could be from the North,East, or South the east course would be the hardest as that is over the mountains.,the north course would be a bit easier as much of that course comes thur the centeral valley. The differance in these two course could require a different type of bird, so check with the local fliers. Remember the eye photo is nothing more then a SALES GIMICK. GEORGE


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Far as the eye. If you offset the eye in breeding you maintain A balance. as for breeding you can grade the eye Or look at it as to how alert the bird seems through the eye. Now the person breeding pigeons has to develop what is known as the minds eye to better judge haow to manage and breed there birds. Fars as CBS I see you live a CA. there are several good lofts out there that have some top birds. I would suggest you find and take the time to visit a few. and see what you are buying. Have you checked the world of wings out as they have good birds also at a fare price. But agin check your local or near lofts as Ca. has several lofts that can help you get started off right.What package type birds are you looking for There is a CA. loft that breeds houbens and the birds seem very good to me. houbens that I have seen have some decent breeding uses. But remember any line is strain based You will breed your own type of birds setting your mark on that line. CBS has some good birds BUT they sell alot of birds And you do not raise alot of good to top birds every year. For breeder birds buy birds that have been raced and results are there to show how they performed Buying young birds for breeders that never raced is like bying a sparrow that looks like a pigeon. You if not experianced may just have a sparrow not a race quality bird or future breeder. As say 1 pair may raise say 6 young 1 might be the best raised that year the other 5 are not quality birds. And the 1 best it still may not be that good its just the best that pair raised that year. Results speak as to each bird.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

A site I like is Pigeonpardise.com. You learn much about Belgium and NL racing, birds and fanciers.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Two For The*



SB_doves said:


> If you could give me one book to read or site to go to learn more about the sport where or what would it be?


HI.SBDOVES,I will give you two books to read .
FIT TO WIN by DR. WIM PETERS
BORN TO WIN by DR. WIM PETERS
FIT TO WIN covers health of the birds and BORN TO WIN covers management,lofts,genetic and breeding, breeding stock and more. JEDDS carries both books the cost is around 85 to 90 dollars for both book. GEORGE


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

george simon said:


> HI.SBDOVES,I will give you two books to read .
> FIT TO WIN by DR. WIM PETERS
> BORN TO WIN by DR. WIM PETERS
> FIT TO WIN covers health of the birds and BORN TO WIN covers management,lofts,genetic and breeding, breeding stock and more. JEDDS carries both books the cost is around 85 to 90 dollars for both book. GEORGE


Thanks George I will get them and start reading there is a good racing club here in Santa Barbara I will call them and go to a meeting.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SB 
I looked through my AU Yearbook and California has 7 pages of fanciers listed in it. You can drop the AU a line at www.pigeon.org and they will send you a list of AU members in your are. From here you can find a club. I found this info doing a search on excite. Maybe it will help you out. He is also in the AU book. 
Santa Barbara Racing Pigeon Club, Santa Barbara, Bob Wheatley 805-684-4243. The number was posted on a California Club locator so I thought it safe to post it here.

http://www.speedpigeon.com/state_california.htm has a list of clubs

This was a link from the AU page (Phil Bateman [email protected] Santa Barbara CA USA)
Hope these might help you find the local guys.
Randy Hill


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks yes Bob has been flying for alot of years I have been told I will give him a call.


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

I totally agree with Renee. I don't think the eyes make the bird!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> SB
> I looked through my AU Yearbook and California has 7 pages of fanciers listed in it. You can drop the AU a line at www.pigeon.org and they will send you a list of AU members in your are. From here you can find a club. I found this info doing a search on excite. Maybe it will help you out. He is also in the AU book.
> Santa Barbara Racing Pigeon Club, Santa Barbara, Bob Wheatley 805-684-4243. The number was posted on a California Club locator so I thought it safe to post it here.
> 
> ...


Great post Randy.

There is really nothing like a local person who is able to give you some good hands on help. Besides, you will need to find the local club in order to race anyway.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Wondering*

HI SB DOVES,Just was wondering if you got those two books that I recomaned hope that you did.Did you meet with local race club members? Are you planing to race old birds next year? GOOD LUCK.  GEORGE


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

george simon said:


> HI SB DOVES,Just was wondering if you got those two books that I recomaned hope that you did.Did you meet with local race club members? Are you planing to race old birds next year? GOOD LUCK.  GEORGE


Thanks yes I ordered one of those books and Sunday I met with Santa Barbara Pigeon club BBQ and Auction met all the right people and will be going to the next meeting.


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*You Are Really something*



Lovebirds said:


> Make sure that they can see out of both of them.  Just kidding..........



I like that response, sense of humours makes me laff on the ground here, well for me the eye sign is one of the most important thing choosing to breed, but others have their own opinions...I pair the ones who has the same colors, thats how I do mine...

Oliver


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Steelers Army said:


> I like that response, sense of humours makes me laff on the ground here, well for me the eye sign is one of the most important thing choosing to breed, but others have their own opinions...I pair the ones who has the same colors, thats how I do mine...
> 
> Oliver


Well now I could very well be wrong but I THINK you are supposed to do just the opposite. I know I've heard not to breed two Pearl eye birds together. God forbid, they might turn out with purple eyes with pink polka dots or something.......... I just can't see what the eye, ESPECIALLY, the color has to do with whether that bird can find it way home or not.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

SB_doves said:


> Thanks yes I ordered one of those books and Sunday I met with Santa Barbara Pigeon club BBQ and Auction met all the right people and will be going to the next meeting.


 SB DOVES I hope you got the book "FIT TO WIN' as it deals with the health of the birds. In which direction do they fly?Glad that you are meeting the right people,pick their brains for all inportent info that you can get,hope that you have found out what faimly of birds seem to be doing best on their race course. GEORGE


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

george simon said:


> SB DOVES I hope you got the book "FIT TO WIN' as it deals with the health of the birds. In which direction do they fly?Glad that you are meeting the right people,pick their brains for all inportent info that you can get,hope that you have found out what faimly of birds seem to be doing best on their race course. GEORGE


What course does your club take? The guys here were saying there is a truck that starts down in LA and works it way north till Santa Barbara or so the drives to the first drop.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

SBDOVES, We fly up 395 thats inland behind the mountians.There is talk about flying up route 5 next year but thats just talk GEORGE


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