# Help! I've found a starving pigeon! (Emergency!)



## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Alright, I'm just a silly student and as I was walking down the road to the store I found a little fledgling or whatever it's called on the middle of the road, I stopped the cars that were about to run over it and ran over to pick it up, it seemed to be slightly alright but it has major trouble walking and according to most people I've asked over the net they say it looks to be around 20 - 23 days old.

It's a pigeon, I live in Malmö Sweden and I've called hundreds of vets for assisstance but according to them they have no room, and they told me its either death or I take care of them. The little bird has a tiny wound on its head, it doesnt seem like much of a big deal, probably from the pecking of another bird. I took him home asap (this was about 9 - 10 hours ago), I washed his wound off with destilated water carefully, not with any chemicals as I know the fume might intoxicate it. 

I gave the little birdie a warm and soft spot to rest on in a box in my room, on a few layers of towels and a news papers sheet. I've tried to feed it but it refuses to eat. I ran to the nearest stores but none had any seeds or anything I could give to it but dog food and bread crumbs, so I took that immediately, I soaked some bread and tried to feed it, but it didnt want to. I was told I should force it to eat the bread by teasing its peak, I did that and it felt like I was forcing it to eat because it kept pulling its head away.

I've fed it two times since 3 PM to 11 PM. (The force feed thing), I dont know what to do about the dog food, I'm just, kinda, anxious and panicking, I dont know what to do to help it. I'm absolutely not going to accept answers if you tell me to let it die, I want to do everything in my power to save it. So please, throw all your suggestions and wisdom at me x_x


Here's a picture of the bird. 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd....809_681626251887278_5969881470976952338_o.jpg


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You have a squeaker...a baby pigeon that isn't weaned.

You can feed him this way..

You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
The crop is located below the throat and above the keel bone, which is in the center of the bird. When full, it fills like a little balloon and feels lumpy from the peas.

In addition to the peas,…one time a day, put a small pinch of powdered oyster shell, which you can buy at most pet stores, and sprinkle it on the peas. This will help supply the calcium the baby needs for bones and growth. If they don’t get enough calcium, they are at risk of developing rickets.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

40 - 50 peas per feeding? Isnt that A LOT!? I mean, not even I as a human would eat that many peas, well, it sounds a lot for just a little creature like this bird....


And arent peas a bit large? Isnt there a chance it might choke on the pea?

How long should I wait between every feed?


Thank you by the way. I really appreciate it. I'm going to run down to the nearest store and buy some peas asap.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

See if you can find the petite kind.No...that seems like a lot but they are soft and he may get to the point where he will even eat more. I had one gobble 76 one time. I was amazed.
You need to feed him every time his crop empties.
The crop is located below the throat and above the keel bone, which is in the center of the bird. When full, it fills like a little balloon and feels lumpy from the peas.
The peas process through rather quickly...much quicker than hard seed.
It's very important not to feed if the crop has food in it. If you add new food to old food the baby may get sour crop or a bacterial infection.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Remember...you will put the pea at the back of the mouth, over the throat area. If you put them at the front of the mouth, the baby will probably spit them out.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

So I will sort of have to force it to eat but in a much calmer manner? What about hydration? How will I keep it hydrated, should I clean it, as for the wound, it's a pretty small wound and I personally dont think it should be much of a big deal but I've seen the slightest wounds of humans turning into deadly infected ones. So, do you suggest I should wash it too? If so, with water only or are there any special (cheap) substances I should use? 


And by saying "put it in the back of its mouth", do you mean like, furthest in? how can I prevent it from closing its peak? is putting a finger in there okay? Is there a chance I might harm him if I force his peak open or is there a certain technique like squeeze his jaws or something, It looks like it when I look at tutorials on youtube but that might just be me.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Radix said:


> So I will sort of have to force it to eat but in a much calmer manner? What about hydration? How will I keep it hydrated, should I clean it, as for the wound, it's a pretty small wound and I personally dont think it should be much of a big deal but I've seen the slightest wounds of humans turning into deadly infected ones. So, do you suggest I should wash it too?
> 
> *The peas have a lot of liquid and so you won't need to give liquid at this point.
> It would be a good idea to wash the wound and put some antibiotic cream on the wound.*
> ...


Pigeons don't gape like some other kinds of baby birds and so you will need to pry the beak open and put the pea at the back of his mouth, over the throat. You won't need to push it down the throat. You don't need to squeeze the jaws. Be gentle. It will take some practice but you both will get the hang of it. He may be squealing and moving about. That's what baby pigeons so when they are hungry.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I pry the beak open with one hand, leave a finger slightly inside the center of the beak to keep the beak open and pop the peas with the other hand.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

What about hydrate? Should I force it to dip its beak into water or? I don't want to take any of those types of risks. I fed it 9 pea's for now, I think he'll do fine on those 9 for now, it's his first afterall.... I'll feed him a few every 4th - 6th hour, his feces also have .. well.. feces in them so I can tell that he has some nutrition in his body at least.

But I'm mostly concerned about hydration and cleaning him. What should I do about those?


The feeding went pretty well though, the first four was troublesome but after the first four he started to relax, stopped shivering and ate the other five much easier. 


Thank you so much for helping me out, words can't describe how thankful I am for this forum and its people.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What about hydrate? Should I force it to dip its beak into water or? I don't want to take any of those types of risks. I fed it 9 pea's for now, I think he'll do fine on those 9 for now, it's his first afterall.... I'll feed him a few every 4th - 6th hour, his feces also have .. well.. feces in them so I can tell that he has some nutrition in his body at least.

But I'm mostly concerned about hydration and cleaning him. What should I do about those?

*No need to hydrate if you are feeding (thawed, drained and warmed) frozen peas, that is the advantage of using these peas. If you are feeding pigeon seed, you can gently tip its beak (not the nostrils) in a bowl of water and see if it will drink.

Young pigeons love to bathe, you can offer a bowl of water, like a cat litter type box and see if it will bathe, but don't force.*


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are the instructions I sent you in response to your message to me so that others know what I've told you and can help guide. 

If you follow my instructions you will do okay by the baby.

1.]You don't need to give the baby water right now because the defrosted peas all full of liquid.

2.] I told you to give him frozen peas that have been defrosted by running hot water over them.
3.] Do not cook them.

4.]Do not give canned peas. The tin in the can is bad for the baby.

5.] You don't need to worry about any other food for a few days. It's important to do this step and the I will guide you.

6.] Baby pigeons need about 150-200 calories a day to grow and survive. Each pea has 1 calorie. If you only give 9 peas he isn't going to make it. You need to feed 30-50 peas per feeding. I have done this thousands of times, over the past 30 years and this method takes a bit to get used to but it works.

7.] Do go to a pet shop and buy oyster shell for birds. Sprinkle a pinch on the peas 1 time a day so the baby will get the calcium he needs. While you are there, see if they have a seed mix for doves.

Perhaps you can find a box to put the baby in, put a towel in the bottom. I put paper towels over the top and change them as needed. Leave the top of the box open because the baby needs light. Can he fly yet?
The other option is to borrow a cat carrier to keep him in.

Everyone starts by not knowing a thing about birds. Me too. The most important thing is that you care and are willing to help.
__________________


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis is right in that if you don't feed him more, he will just weaken and die. You can start by giving him 30 at a time, then when crop empties, maybe in 4 hours or so, give him 30 more. Each time you give him a pea, let him close his beak and swallow it, then give another. You can then work up to the 40 or 50. But definitely need to give at least 30 to start with.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How is the bird doing? I noticed you have not been on this site in a long time. I'm worried you have noy read the answers posted here.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

I went around to see if they have any oyster egg powder but they had something similar which I forgot its name, but I'll keep looking for them tommorow. For today I fed him 50 peas in total, it seems a lot to me but I trust you people.


I'll upload a few screenshots of what he looks like.

The wound on his head isnt bleeding anymore and seems to have healed, all I see now is a little mark left over and scarred fluff/feathers there. 

I'll start feeding him 30 every 4th hour from tommorow and onwards.

About the peas, is it okay if they are still cold but the outer layer of them defrosted? All I do is dip them in warm water and keep them in it for about a few seconds till they soften up but their inner cores seem cold..


Could that start some sort of internal freezing since I heard birds need a lot of warmth?


As for bathing, I tried to gently put it down but it started flapping and wanted out so I picked it up immediately and put it back in its box.

The reason for why I'll feed it more tommorow is because well, it's midnight over here in sweden, but I can feed it more if I should. Though, I heard its bad to feed pigeons at night?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This is critical to remember

No...the peas must be defrosted when you feed them....warm on the inside too but not hot They can't digest frozen food or food that is cold when they are babies. Feeding cold/frozen food cause cause the digestive system to shut down.

It's not bad to feed at night.

Pigeons do like to bathe but not now. Give it a few days until he is stronger and you have the feeding process down.

This is critical information

Feed him when the crop is empty. The crop is below the throat area. When it has food in it, it feels lumpy. When the crop is empty, there is no balloon feeling area and it feels flat instead.

*This is critical to remember.*
Baby pigeons need about *150-200* calories a day to grow and survive. Each pea has 1 calorie. If you only give 30 peas he isn't going to make it. You need to feed 30-50 peas per feeding. I have done this thousands of times, over the past 30 years and this method takes a bit to get used to but it works.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Alright. For now I'll get some rest myself so I wont collapse.

Once I wake up I'll feed it 30 peas and 30 every 4th - 5th hour. 

Is it normal that it turns its peak/head away everytime I try to feed? 

It's been much calmer recently compared to the first time when I gave it a few peas and it struggled as if it was between life or death. Now it just simply turns its head away and closes its peak, is that normal?

Anyway I can sort of calm it down? I usually put a towel on my lap and gently set the bird ontop of my lap so it's facing me or sideways, and I keep the bowl full of defrosted peas next to me. 

The bird is usually shivering/shaking a lot at first when I pick it up carefully but after a minute or two of sitting on my lap it calms down. when I feed, I usually try to force it's peak open with a finger and quickly slip in a pea into its open mouth/peak, it sometimes chews on it then swallows it, some other times it just swallows it whole. It's a real pain in the butt to keep its head still but at least It works after a few tries. 

I always feed it one pea at a time and I wait till the chest flattens down, I noticed what you people taught me and yeah it's pretty cool. I saw it's chest expand as the pea slowly went down its throat, and it took a few seconds till the chest flattened down again. I assume that's what you people call the crop?

Anyhow, from the description I'm giving now, is there anything else I should think about? How long can the bird go without food or water though?

My uncle who owns a lot of birds says I can feed him some corn from popcorn packages or corn flakes that are soaked, is that true also? I'm sticking to peas (for now) as most of you say it's the best thing but I'd just like to know about the corn part. 


Thanks in advance. 

Here's a new picture of him in his little box, I changed the layer beneath him immediately after I took the picture as I noticed it was a bit damp. (Probably from his feces). As you may see, the wound on his head is no longer bleeding red but has well, become some sort of orange colored and is slowly being covered up, it doesnt bleed anymore either by the looks of it.

Here you are!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't give him hard popcorn. That would be hard to digest. You could add a little bit of frozen and defrosted, and warmed all the way through, corn. But I would give more peas, as they are easily digested. Popcorn is very hard, and won't digest easily. Could have crop problems.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Radix said:


> Alright. For now I'll get some rest myself so I wont collapse.
> 
> Once I wake up I'll feed it 30 peas and 30 every 4th - 5th hour.
> 
> ...


At any time you can go back over these posts because probably the answers to all your questions are there.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

From the picture it looks like his poop is runny. That's from not getting enough food. The droppings should be firmer. Go for more tomorrow.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Before I was going to bed I thought I'd feed him just a few more peas to make sure he wont stay too hungry till tommorow... and as I brought a few peas close I noticed that he started to peck at my hand as if he wants them, but he kept dropping them everytime he picked them up. 

What does this mean?


Is there anyway I can help him?


Should I continue to feed by putting it in his mouth or start putting peas in the box with him? will he learn on his own is it still too early? 

Yes, his feces are runny and I thought the exact same thing, I'll give him a 15 peas before I go to bed after this post, I'll read the replies tommorow asap.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

After you have fed him several times, you can leave a little bit in his cage so that he will eventually try to pick them up himself. But you need to hand feed him till he gets good at picking them up and feeding himself.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Radix said:


> Before I was going to bed I thought I'd feed him just a few more peas to make sure he wont stay too hungry till tommorow... and as I brought a few peas close I noticed that he started to peck at my hand as if he wants them, but he kept dropping them everytime he picked them up.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> ...


Okay..........


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Alright, I've done this.

Woke up 8 AM.

Fed him 30 Pea's at 8 AM.

- 4 hour wait -

Fed him 30 peas at 12 AM.

- 4 hour wait -

Fed him 35 peas at 4 PM.


- in total I've fed him 90 peas before this post. I'll continue to feed him 30 every 4 hour till it's 12 PM at which he'll of have gotten 155 peas/calories in total then. -

Anything I should change?

He've started to flap with his wings every now and then though it doesnt get him into the air and he can't walk properly either, he somewhat crawls. As for bird seed mix, I found so many variants and I didnt know which one to pick, apparantly some of them had seagul pictures while some had crow and pigeon, but they all were too confusing, is there any specific name for a type of seed mix I should pick? or just any bird seed mix at all? I didnt trust the ones who worked there because they were only eager to sell, I could clearly see it on them that they wouldnt care if the bird got sick or not, it's all money for them afterall, so I'm asking you for advice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Before you feed him, feel the crop and make sure it is empty. It usually does take 4 hours or so to empty, but you want to be sure that the crop is working properly before you feed again. Because, if it is emptying slowly, then you don't want to be putting more in. I always say around 4 hours or so, because in my experience, that is what I have seen. Also, I think it's better to wait that long, even if the crop does empty sooner, then to be giving food too soon. It can be hard sometimes for people not used to it to be able to tell if the crop is empty. So I err on the side of caution. You can feel the crop and look at how many droppings he has made. If it seems as though he has only had a few droppings, or feels like there is still food in the crop, then wait a bit longer and check again. You don't have to feed every 4 hours on the dot. I just gave that as a time frame for about how long it takes for him to handle what you have given him. It does vary with different birds. If you feed him, and the crop is emptying slowly, and hasn't emptied what you have already fed him, that can create problems in the crop, and you don't want that. 
Start leaving a small amount of peas with him so that he can practice picking them up. If you put some in with him in the morning, and wait a little bit to feed him, then he may be hungry enough to try to pick them up on his own. Give him a half hour or an hour to see what he does.

Also, if you can fill a small crock with tepid water, and hold his beak gently, on either side, and slowly lower it down into the water, *but not over his nostrils.* Do this several times a day, and eventually he will learn to drink.

Can you find a pigeon or dove bird seed? Don't have any idea of what you have there. But it would probably say that it was for pigeons and doves. I will go get a link to some pigeon feed mixes, so you will know what seeds it should contain, just to give you an idea. Some just start with a wild bird feed mix and add to it to make it more complete. You can add some split peas from the market, and some dry lentils, and maybe just a small amount of safflower seed.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Alright, on his 125th feed now, just an hour before this post the time was 8:45 PM and I fed him another 30 peas. So by this post, he has around 125 calories in his body. Four hours after this post I'll give him another 30 and he'll have his 150. calories of the day.

Then I'll go to bed and repeat it tommorow.


However, I'm having trouble finding his crop, are there any video tutorials you guys know of? I watched some on youtube but I had a hard time finding it or understanding because when I feel along his throat I feel plenty of tiny balloons/lumps, even below his throat.

My other concern is also the night. If I sleep for 8 - 9 hours, will this be dangerous for him? I mean, 8 - 9 hours without food.

I can put some peas in his box sure, but I doubt he'll eat them himself, he just pecks at them then drops them as he always does when I hold them infront of his peak. 

Sure, I'd feed him as fast as possible after I wake up.

Now before you wonder how I've made it for two - three days since I found him, well, the answer for that would be that I have barely slept at all because of my fear of him starving during my sleep. So I've been putting my alarm to wake me up at 4 AM every morning so I can check on him but I can't continue doing this, im barely getting any sleep and i'm getting sick, so I need my 8 hours of sleep.


But if 8 hours is too much I can always lessen it somehow by waking up then going back to sleep after I fed him.

Any suggestions? or is my 8 hour sleep okay?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

He can go 8-9 hours without food while you sleep. That isn't a problem. Feed him more peas with each feeding. I feed them very full at this age... 40-50 peas. I raise over 100 babies a year. I have 3 right now. ....two are younger than yours and they are getting about 35 per feeding.The older one is eating 50-60 per feeding. In the morning, after the first feeding, they process the peas quicker than later in the day.
The peas are soft and full of liquid and so they process them quicker than hard seed. He needs the peas not for the liquid.

I'll go look for a picture that shows the crop.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ana...ms%2Ff109%2Fpigeon-anatomy-55958.html;384;407


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This image is of a gull but there is a description of a crop and a good picture of the gull's crop.

http://10000birds.com/what-is-a-birds-crop.htm


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Ooooh, now I see! Thank you. And.. I'll increase the dose by 5, so tommorow I'll feed him 35 - 40 every fourth hour. I'll slowly work my way up to 50.

Thank you all.

I'll come back after I've gotten some sleep, goodnight for now


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Check the pictures on these very young baby pigeons http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/howmuchtofeed.htm *


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's a good link, Skyeking. This baby is older and it's harder to see the crop. I'll book mark the one you posted for others too. Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Are you feeding the very small peas, or the regular size, because I think that makes a difference too, in how much to give. We have looked and can't seem to find the very small peas here, so we just use the regular size, and I think it does take fewer of them to fill the bird.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Woke up at 8 AM, fed it 40 peas.


As for your question, I feed it the petite/smaller ones. 

He've started to learn to eat from my hand directly. Just today when I picked up a pea to feed him he leaned over and took it out of my palm by himself, so I guess he've learnt...

I decided I'll feed him 40 every 4.5th hour to ensure that his crop isnt full, since I can't really tell how it should feel or not, I mean, even when it's been 5 hours it still feels a bit lumpy so I dont know if he's full or not, but I guess I shouldnt worry anymore because he can eat them himself and I doubt he'll over-eat, or is that possible?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's great news!
They will sometimes over eat when they have fist learned.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad he's catching on. Good news.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

So yesterday he had his 160 calories for the day for the first time. I'm training him to pick up peas from my palm rather than hold them one by one to his mouth.

He's learning really fast, though, he wont pick them up if they're in the box with him. Only if i have them in my palm, and he wont eat either if anyone else tries to feed him, only me..


I also realized he'll soon need to expand his little box and I thought I should maybe borrow a cage or something for him to rest in, because he've started to climb out of the box every now and then and it feels wrong to force him to stay inside that box, it's only 4 times his size. Should I get a cage or not?

and when should I switch his diet to bird seed mix? I bought some today, when should I teach him how to walk or fly? He can walk but not that good, looks almost as if he drags himself around, no his feet arent broken, he just seems lazy. He can flap his wings really well but can't take off, only make small jumps. 

It's getting a bit obnoxious to see him hop out of the box every now and then.

When should I also teach him to drink from a small bowl?


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

I also found some of his feces on his beak today, I carefully wiped it off with wet fingers. Does this mean he've been eating his own outcome/feces? Is that normal? Does it mean he's hungry? Because if it means he's hungry, I've been putting peas in his box everyday, why would he eat his own feces.


I'm also thinking of giving him a small bath tonight.

But yeah, make sure to also read my before this post questions, I wish to know about the cage and feeding too, thanks!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Radix said:


> So yesterday he had his 160 calories for the day for the first time. I'm training him to pick up peas from my palm rather than hold them one by one to his mouth.
> 
> He's learning really fast, though, he wont pick them up if they're in the box with him. Only if i have them in my palm, and he wont eat either if anyone else tries to feed him, only me..
> 
> ...


...........................................................................


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Got him a large cage, haha, apologies, I'm typing on my phone so I didnt notice that I repeat some questions, thank you though.


I'll do as you suggested, thanks


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Alright, so the cage is rather large, very large, enough for him to stretch his wings out fully and to even fly a foot up into the air if he wishes to do so. It has quite a lot of space for him to walk around in, I've put news papers under so he can walk around on them and so I can change them. However, he seems to stay in the corner a lot, is there any reason for why he doesnt come out of the corners? Is he cold? I mean, it seems warm when I feel and the room temperature is good too, is it normal that he stays in the corner?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I'm sure he doesn't mind the roomy castle. Perhaps he might like a little cubby up high for some privacy. Make sure to add some flat perches up high. Pigeons feel secure up high.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's still young, and they don't move around all that much when young. Newspaper can be slippery. Is there some way you could put a small folded towel or something in the corner for him to sit on. It would be good for him to have something under him that isn't quite so slippery. Will help him to keep his legs under him better.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

A towel would be very troublesome, I'd have to clean it hourly, how would I have to keep it dry? I dont have many towels, my family only gave me four to use, and I use those only when cleaning him or feeding him (putting him on my lap).

Is there anything else? cardboard? a small wooden plank?

and to Skyeking, about the cubby/perches, he can't jump or fly, he can barely walk, I doubt he'll be able to get up on a perch on his own. The best he can do is flap his wings but that doesnt get him anywhere, and when he moves around he drags himself around.... so how would he get up on a high perch?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Must be something you could put in there in the corner where he spends most of his time. Cardboard is slippery. Maybe a couple of folded up paper towels would be helpful even.

As far as the perch, you can place a piece of 2X4 cut into a 7 or 8 inch section, and lay it on its side, or even a brick. When he can jump up, he will like that.

You said he drags himself around. What do you mean by that?


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

When he moves he uses his wings AND feet to pull himself forward, and he's usually tilted to the left or right. That's what I meant, it's not that he stands up and walks, he's always down it seems.

I'll get the brick.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Radix said:


> When he moves he uses his wings AND feet to pull himself forward, and he's usually tilted to the left or right.


*That sounds like a calcium deficiency. The youngster definitely needs calcium/D3 asap.*


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Where can I get that, I can't find any oyster eggs, I've asked 3 zoo stores but none have them, they all direct me to go to the other zoo store and when I go there they dont have any, is there anything else I can get?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Radix said:


> Where can I get that, I can't find any oyster eggs, I've asked 3 zoo stores but none have them, they all direct me to go to the other zoo store and when I go there they dont have any, is there anything else I can get?


*You can use a human grade calcium, liquid with D3 or tablets and give 1/4th of a human dose. STANDARD human dosage of 600 mg.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Radix said:


> Where can I get that, I can't find any oyster eggs, I've asked 3 zoo stores but none have them, they all direct me to go to the other zoo store and when I go there they dont have any, is there anything else I can get?


It isn't oyster eggs. It is oyster shell. The shell from oysters, which is ground up to small pieces.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Skyeking said:


> *You can use a human grade calcium, liquid with D3 or tablets and give 1/4th of a human dose.*


That could be anything. calcium pills come in high doses. 1/4 of that would be too much for a bird.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you go to a pharmacy and ask if they have a calcium suspension [liquid]? If so buy it and give the baby 20 mg every day for 7 days.
A petstore may have liquid calcium too so you can ask there. If they have liquid calcium supplement it may have vitamin d3 already in it. If so, that is what you want.If it doesn't You should be able to find d3 in a suspension [liquid] at the pharmacy. You can give the baby 1 drop a day.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Well, I got him the calcium and currently I'm trying to teach him how to drink water from a small bowl. He seems to be able to walk much better as he can actually stand and wont pull himself with his wings anymore.


Anyhow, there's one thing I noticed when I picked him up to give him a small bath today.


His wings are... wounded but not bloody. It looks like something is sticking out of his wing, but when he flaps his wings they dont seem broken at all. I've googled how to identify a broken wing and they dont seem broken... but it looks like a piece of meat or bone is sticking out of the underside of his wing.....

I've examined him a lot of times but only today did I find this.... what could it be?

It looks like something hard is sticking out and its covered in a dry & thick membrane... It's not bloody at all.


It's the same location on both wings, very similar places to this birds (a picture from google)

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/shot 2.jpg

But it's close to invisible... like, it's only visible if I move the feathers out of the way, and it's very small.




..............................


- He uses his wings like all other birds do, they stretch out the same and flap at the same pace. 
- He sometimes switches side to lean on when he rests (Not sure if ths is because of the wound), it's as if he just, leans onto his left while sitting, or right, if it's his right side his right wing is lowered an inch compared to the left, and vice versa if its on the left.
- He doesnt limp anymore when he walks forth.
- He sometimes flaps his wings just randomly.
- The wounds arent bloody or visible, only visible when moving the feathers out of the way.
- Wound looks like a small piece of flesh sticking out, the wound is about a half centimeter wide and the thing that sticks out is sticking out about a few milimeters only.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Probably damage from pushing himself around with them.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> That could be anything. calcium pills come in high doses. 1/4 of that would be too much for a bird.


They do? I will state STANDARD daily dose, 600 mg.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> Probably damage from pushing himself around with them.




So, it doesnt seem like anything I should worry about? Because I've become very anxious and depressed since I found those two "wounds" or something.. is there anything I should do? and about the calcium..... I bought the powder/pills and liquid, which should I give and how should I give?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Skyeking said:


> They do? I will state STANDARD daily dose, 600 mg.


Doesn't 1/4 of that amount seem a bit high for a youngster? And for how long?


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

... well? any answer to my two questions? x_x


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> Doesn't 1/4 of that amount seem a bit high for a youngster? And for how long?


*1/4th of a human serving for grown pigeon and can be tweeked down a little for this one. It is usually not even a problem, it depends on the source. I usually use coral calcium from clean sources. 

Youngsters that are not getting any calcium from the parents diet should get it from other sources, in the same time frame parent pigeons would be feeding it to them. Then when weaned and eating on their own they should receive it in grit. *


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

powder/pills or liquid, and how should I give it?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Radix said:


> powder/pills or liquid, and how should I give it?


*Break pill in 4th, gently open beak place piece on back of throat, on top of tongue and close beak and allow bird to swallow. You can rub neck gently in downward fashion just under beak to crop to help. For powder, sprinkle a little on seed or on wet pea, however you are feeding the bird. With liquid I would slowly disburse with a dropper down the side of beak, not directly inside beak.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wouldn't giving the lesser dose over a period of time be better than one high dose? I agree that the bird needs calcium and quickly, but calcium can be over done as well.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> Wouldn't giving the lesser dose over a period of time be better than one high dose? I agree that the bird needs calcium and quickly, but calcium can be over done as well.


* * lt really depends on the source of the calcium and if it has any additives/preservatives/chemicals.

While the bird is still growing and laying down new muscle and bone AND deficient-that's like burning the candle at both ends, the extra can only be beneficial providing it meets the correct specifics*. At 4 weeks of age the bird should be full grown and eating on its own, then there is no more need for supplement, if it is getting a calcium source in its food or grit. 

We need to move this to its own thread if continuing, as it is off topic.

*


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

alright, I found oyster shells, I've crushed some into powder and sprinkle it on his peas once a day I feed. He've healed well and there are no scars left, he can walk and he've learnt to flap his wings to lift into the air for just a second but then lands again. 


However, he've become "scared" of me, earlier he used to relax near me, now he starts to tremble and gets frightened when I come near the cage. Any idea to why?

Also, he wont drink, I've been dipping his beak into water once a day but he still wont learn to drink.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

However, he've become "scared" of me, earlier he used to relax near me, now he starts to tremble and gets frightened when I come near the cage. Any idea to why?

*That is probably his normal response to humans, he is feeling better again. When he was sick he was to weak to respond. Pigeons who seem tame, can be sick. We have a ton of people who come here saying they found a tame pigeon when in reality the bird is too weak to respond otherwise.*


Also, he wont drink, I've been dipping his beak into water once a day but he still wont learn to drink.

*If you are feeding the wet/drained peas he has no need to drink. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well when he weans, he will have to learn to drink, and then you can dip his beak into the water, but not over the nostrils. But you will have to do that more than once a day for him to learn. It takes time.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

I've dipped his beak into water and such for an entire week now but still he wont drink himself.

I've fed him calcium but he still doesnt stand up much. What could be wrong or should I keep it up longer?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How many times a day do you dip his beak in water? How much calcium do you give, and how are you giving it?


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

I've bought oyster shells which I grind into powder, I sprinkle the powder over his peas before I feed him once a day, not too much but not too little either, I saw a youtube clip so I got an idea of how much. I dip his beak like 2 or three times a day.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is deficient in calcium, then that isn't going to give him enough. And he needs vitaminD3 to even be able to utilize the calcium he does get. Does he get sunshine, which gives him vitamin D3? That is why a supplement like calciboost, or calcium pills with vitamin D3 are needed. If he isn't getting the D3, then the calcium is doing no good. He can't use it.
Sprinkling a bit of calcium powder over peas you are feeding is good for a pigeon that isn't already deficient in calcium. Like hand rearing squabs.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

He've started to get better ever since I put his cage closer to the window, He has learnt to walk and even fly up 5 feet! as soon as I opened the cage he flew out of it and right into my face! haha


It's great, but he STILL hasnt learnt to drink, what can I do...?

I've still been feeding him peas with calcium....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He should have been weaned a couple of weeks ago. Leave the peas in with him in the morning, and see if he will learn to pick them up by himself if he is hungry enough. They usually learn fast with the peas because they are soft and easy to pick up. Leave seed in with him also. Peck at them with your finger, using your finger as a beak, to give him the idea. Don't feed him for several hours, and he will try to pick them up himself. If you keep feeding him, then he won't have the incentive to do it himself. The longer you hand feed him, the longer it will take to get him to self feed. Do you leave a small dish of water with him, so that he will try himself? Leave the food and water with him, and he will learn.


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

Noo, I havent hand fed him for almost a week and a half now(or two weeks), I just drop in the peas and seeds once every 5th hour. 

Also, today I noticed he havent eaten AT ALL. I woke up at 8 AM, put some peas and seeds in, then returned at 12:30 just to find out he hadnt touched any of them. So I cleaned it up and got him some new peas and seeds, then at 5 PM I found out he STILL hadnt eaten them, and it continued all the way till 12 PM where I saw him peck at the peas and ate them, but not all of them.


Why? Any thing wrong? He also still havent learnt to drink, I change the small cup everyday and switch water every time im gonna feed, he doesnt even touch the water.

I try to dip his beak into it but he doesnt want to anymore...

It sort of feels like he's giving up or something...? He used to be more alive just a few days ago, he keeps acting more dorment.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he isn't eating, then feed them to him. I don't know why he hasn't learned to drink if you are dipping his beak correctly into the tepid water. Maybe you weren't feeding enough and he has gotten weak. How much were you giving him when he was eating them?


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## Radix (Jun 21, 2014)

About a 50 - 60 peas every 4-5th hour, so at his last feeding for the day he'd get around 200 peas in total. 

He doesnt seem weak because he've sort of learnt to fly. I allowed him to fly around, but he's not good at it, he can just fly up a few feet, stay there for a few seconds then lands back down.


Everytime I dip his beak into water (not up to the nostrils), all he does is just start to shiver/shake/tremble and pulls his head away, even when I do it very slowly and carefully.


It seems like he's rejecting everything.


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