# Burned Again!



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

See my post under Jedd's bands ... Well, the owner was supposed to show up this morning to reclaim his bird and was supposed to call me when he was leaving Garden Grove. No call for hours. Finally at noon he had one of his sons call to ask if the bird could fly .. I said probably, there is no injury to the wing , BUT it can't fly right now because the left leg is wrapped due to the injury. I was asked to release the bird anyway as "it was in training", and they would call me when the bird arrived home.

Well, "officially" this bird was released to fly home at 1:30PM today ... I know I am a "bad" person to do this, but the bird will just stay here until it is well. If the owner cares enough to call and tell me the bird never made it home, we might have something to talk about. Otherwise, I guess I am now a pigeon thief!

Terry Whatley


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## critterlover2 (Jan 15, 2001)

Terry,

So sorry to hear that. But I am with you 100 percent. It will do the pigeon no good at all to release while injured. Even if he did make it who's to say he wouldn't damage himself further?

Good luck with him, I know he is in completely loving and capable hands until he is well.

My best,

Terri


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Terri,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I truly do feel badly about this but just could not let this pigeon go in the condition it is in. It is a very lovely bird ... white with totally beautiful gray markings .. Since I am now "thieving" this bird, I have named it Blizzard .. if you saw a picture, you would connect the name with the bird instantly! It is just a gorgeous pigeon.

Having already had the bird to my vet, the vet's advice was to leave the leg wrapped for 2-3 weeks .. it is not broken but dislocated at the hip. I really did try to explain all this to the owner and his sons, but I guess I struck out there. The owner does not speak English but his sons certainly do.

Anyway, I am up for bashing if needed but I do think I did the best thing for this bird.
If they REALLY cared, they could have driven the 15 miles down here for the bird .. I drove 25 to go and get it, and don't really think I should have to not only take it to the vet but then deliver it to them (sorry, I guess I am getting irritated about this).

Terry Whatley


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited December 27, 2001).]


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## DaveD (Jul 9, 2001)

With you as well, terry. Poor animal has little chance of making it home with injured leg. And after all, if it was in any hurry to get home, it would be there already. A injured bird in "training"? Sounds to me like you've possibly saved this little fellow from death, sounds to me like he would be doomed no matter what he did. Like you said, if they wanted it, they'd have come to get it. I know if one of mine was injured somewhere, I sure woundn't tell someone, oh, just let it go, it'll probably come back. Sound to me like this bird is lucky to have found you. Keep us all posted. 

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David and Kellie Dittmaier
Haven's Loft
www.geocities.com/havensloft


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

I am with you Terry. When you return a bird to a breeder you run a risk with the birds future safety. It seems to me that if someone loves their bird they will drive any distance to get it. If they will not, then they probably do not love the bird.
Regards,
Carl


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Terry:

While it would not occur to me to second guess you, I'd like to say that I've lived long enough to know that most of life, for a thinking person, is a gray area--gray as the accents on that "dove" you've rescued.

I've seen plenty of instances where right = legal, simply didn't hold up. Conversely, I've seen many instances where wrong = legal was the law of the land. But this, in my mind is not a legal issue. It is a moral one. The "owner" abandoned the "property" when he told you to throw it to the winds and see what happens...

By way of your post, you have implicated us all. So, we now face a moral dilemma: A) Side With An Honorable "Thief" Or B) Support A "Righteous" Jerk? 

Well, I don't consider this small soul mere "property". And the law has intervened before and removed such "property" from their "owners" when circumstances warranted it. Ever hear of local authorities rescuing a neglected lawn mower? Of course not. So, there's property & there's "property". Sounds like a "gray area", doesn't it?

I suppose "A" may be an option, but not on my watch, skipper!









PIGEONS--AND THEIR RESCUERS--FOREVER!!!

--Ray 

PS. What's the pigeon's name?

[This message has been edited by raynjudy (edited December 28, 2001).]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your support on this one. I really couldn't imagine how this bird could possibly make it home on it's own even if I removed the leg wrap ... with the wrap on, there would certainly be no way it could fly in anywhere near a normal manner.

I am calling this beautiful bird Blizzard due to it's coloration ... white with lovely gray markings.

Terry Whatley


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## indie backroll (Aug 3, 2001)

I'm begining to not like the people involved in racing pigeons they really dont care for the well being of their birds too much, Only the race. You did the right thing here and I think anytime I find a racing pigeon I will just keep it not look for the owner because they dont care about the bird if it doesnt get back to their loft - they would cull it anyways when you do return it. I am very disapointed in these racing people


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2001)

Terry, thanks for telling us all about Blizzard and how you're helping. 

And it's great that people at Pigeons.com really love animals. 

Well, tell these guys to come see me if they complain! We're all backing you and Blizzard up.

I've worked on lots of injured birds and rehabilitated some (with help of our old center). It feels wonderful when you let one go and it returns to say hi.

I'm always looking for answers to people who don't value animals enough, and Ray's comment about property but then another kind of property shows up the convention (and law)in a novel way. Maybe we should start a discussion on how to answer people who say 'Why care for animals - don't you value people more!'?

[This message has been edited by AlStreit (edited December 28, 2001).]


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## arrowhead (Sep 24, 2001)

Hey Terry, Is'nt ownership 9/10ths of the LAW!!???





















good rescue and the bird is now yours 4 the Loving!!! Can't believe the S>O>B> could'nt drive a few miles to get his bird when I was into homers I went from reno,nv to las Vegas 2 get my bird with a broken wing and was cripped up the rest of his life but it was the bestest shoulder ridein hair pickin bird i ever HAD!!! GOOD 4 u!!!!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!





















Arrowhead in Tennessee We need more people like U!!!!!

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Arrowhead


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Arrowhead,

Thanks for the nice post. I really, really do feel badly about having fibbed to the owner of this bird. Still, I haven't heard a peep from him or his sons all day today. I would think that a pigeon could easily have traveled 15 miles between 1:30PM yesterday and what is now 6:20PM today. So .... I have to believe that the bird wasn't/isn't all that important to them after all or they would have called me today.

Terry Whatley


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## constantin (Mar 2, 2001)

Hi Terry,

Please keep Blizzard and don't call his 'owner' anymore. If he calls, which I doubt,
just tell him you released the bird.

Happy Holidays!

Constantin


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Constantin!

Nice to hear from you. The plan is as you stated ... if I hear from the owner again, I will just say that I released the bird at 1:30PM on Thursday (which is what I told his son that I would do per their request). 
Blizzard isn't going anywhere until the leg is healed and s/he is completely healthy again. Even then s/he will either remain with me or be adopted by someone who will take proper care of the bird as a pet.

Hope your Ouch is doing well. My Bandit continues to show tiny bits of improvement over time. I am pretty sure that s/he is not ever going to regain much use of the legs, but we are still trying. I still don't really know if Bandit is male or female but whatever the sex, Bandit and the feral with the injured wing that is housed next door certainly have a serious case of lust for one another going on. It is quite amusing and interesting to watch these two put on such a show for one another. Of course Bandit can't do much but s/he certainly tries.

Happy Holidays!

Terry Whatley


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## manderley (Nov 26, 2001)

Hi Terry
Good for you - your story is great - I think Blizzard sounds beautiful!!!
Having grown extremely attached to little Danny I can perfectly understand your motives.
Perhaps all at Pigeons.com who are "conspirators" with you should be called "The Fellowship of the Pigeon Ring"















Susan


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Susan,

"The Fellowship of the Pigeon Ring" .. I like it! Yes, I guess we are all kind of "birds of a feather" here anyway.

Blizzard is doing well and has a few more days to go before the vet checks that leg again. Hopefully it will be fine at that point. I will get some pictures one of these days. There are several other new arrivals besides Blizzard that haven't made their internet "debut" yet either.

I am glad Danny is doing so well and is so well loved by you and your family. Danny is a very, very lucky little bird!

Terry Whatley


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Terry,
This is not stereotyping homing pigeon owners and I know that you will be shocked to hear this. 
Some owners have no patience or compassion for a "loser." When one of those is returned to them they kill the bird and cut the leg off to get the band that can cost up to perhaps $50 per band.
Again, I have seen this but have no idea how prevalent the practice is. 
I'm not sure if the bird you have is a racing pigeon but felt you should know why some people want their birds back.



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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Fred,

Thanks for your post ... do you know why these bands can be worth so much money? They cost only a small amount to purchase unless I am horribly mistaken. I am well aware of the practice of culling birds that do not make it home on their own, but I just don't understand this business about getting the band back. What is that all about?

As I stated, I have learned to just ask the owners flat out what will happen to the bird if returned to them. If I get the least bit of "bad vibes", then their bird either "died" before they could pick it up or was "released" as Blizzard "was". Bliz is still here and on the mend ... managed to get out of his leg wrap yesterday and was back to the vet today. The leg was not wrapped again but Bliz still needs some time to heal. After that, Bliz will either stay here with me or will be placed as a much loved pet with someone who will just love the bird as is and has no interest in either racing or breeding.

Terry Whatley


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Terry's morality on this matter is beyond reproach.

Rock on, Terry! 

Ray N Judy


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi, Fred:

Very little about the capacity for evil in human beings surprises us any more.









But on the upside, there are people like us!

And you're right, you generally can't paint any group with just one brush!

Ray N Judy


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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

Terry,

Those are obviously futurity bands. Basically, bands are purchased for $50 (or whatever predetermined amount) and this money goes into a pot for a one time race with the top spots being awarded cash.

As far as people wanting these bands back, obviously they are out to reuse the band on another birds since the first has failed; which incidentily is against most futurity rules.

K.D.


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

We aren't talking about the plastic bands but those metal bands that have to be purchased from clubs and put on babies so that they will grow into them and remain permanently on the leg. They identify the club, year of birth and the owner. Again, these have to be purchased from the club and can be quite expensive so the owners want to retrieve the band.
I went all out to capture a racing homer and then treat the bird for exaustion and starvation. Then I contacted a pigeon store in the area and they found the owner for me. I agreed to meet the owner at that store and right in front of me, he broke the neck and retrieved the band. Of course I was completely stunned. After conversing with the store owner, I went away with the knowledge that some people do this.
Since then, I have never returned a racing pigeon. I would rather that the band be cut off and let the bird fly free in its new found flock. And if the bird manages to go home, there is no band so there is no reason to kill it. 
I want to reiterate that I'm not painting the entire hobby with a broad brush. I'm in contact on the web with a person who races pigeons and when it is time to retire them, she retires them to a special coop where they live out their lives in peace.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

K.D.,

Thanks for the informative post as always. I want to be sure I understand this as I think most of us "rescue" people don't. 

If racing fanciers want a band back because it is worth money (ie $50 or whatever), is this a special band just for that race or for a series of races as opposed to the regular bands that note the club, the hatch year, and bird number?

I don't believe I have ever seen a downed racer that wore other than a club/year band or perhaps a colored band on the other leg also. I assumed the second band was just another ID that the owner used for some purpose.

I guess the question is what would be on one of these futurity bands, and though not kosher, how would someone "reuse" one of these bands without getting caught?

Terry Whatley


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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

Well, in the first place, about bands on Racing Homers. Finding two bands is not unusual. In the first place, we have the seamless band; either aluminum or plexiglass which serves as the permanent ID band. These bands are far from expensive and range only 15 to 25 cents each and contrary to what Fred says, they do not have to be purchased from a club unless the local club's regulations state that only club bands are elligible on raving birds. Beyond that, there are plenty of private band manufacturers or sources. So for example, all of my birds are wearing generic Romanian made bands opposed to bands issued by any club in the USA. Fact is, I can buy them for 1/4 the price in Romania than here and I can put anything I want on them. The second type of band is the "countermark", which is a temporary elastic band issued by the local club and recorded at the clubhouse prior to the race. This is the band which is placed into a capsule and then inserted into the clock which stamps the arrival time of the bird. Consequently, if you find these elastic bands on stray birds, you are looking at a bird which has fallen out of a race opposed to during training. These bands become voided after a race and generally have a limited life anyway (they'll disintegrate in a single summer).

Technically, there are no "expensive bands". Even in the case of futurity bands, the bands themselves are just as inexpensive as other seamless bands. The so called expensive nature paid for these bands is really an entry fee and a registered band is given to the entrant to put on the young of his top pair and the bands themselves are often no different than what the other bands a loft is using. The importance of these bands is simply that these numbers have been predetermined by the officiating club as a futurity series (ie. these bands will be of a certain number series, such as "001 to 099". Some clubs may order bands specifically for this use, but they are from expensive and may differ only from regular club bands in their color.

There are tho, 24 K Gold and Sterling Silver bands, but these are awards and are intended for putting in a trophy case, opposed to on a bird.

My guess is that the bird Fred returned was wearing a futurity band and the owner intended to band a different youngster with it to protect his entry money. Still, there are some people who are so god damn cheap that they reuse bands off dead squabs or culled squeakers. Me, I'd never do that. In the first place, it creates duplicates in my records and second, I'm superstitious and see the band as unlucky.

And as far as cutting off the band and thinking that will save the bird if it does return; most Racing fanciers are so paranoid about disease that any non banded birds are viewed as park scrubs and are destroyed instantly (generally taken out with a .22 rifle off the roof) for fear of spreading disease.

As far as keeping the bird, just consider yourself lucky that you don't live in Belgium or the Netherlands where having a Racing Homer minus an ownership card is a felony, but on the otherside, the Europeans are alot better about taking lost birds back. They keep less birds than Americans on the average and the average bird is better due to keeping smaller breeding teams and alot of Europeans will give a pigeon multiple chances simply because they trust their stock.

Terry, as far as how a person would reuse a band without getting caught: This is relatively simple. The fact is, alot of people do it if the birds they chose don't chalk up to the expectation. Basically, the previous bird is destroyed and the leg is cut off to remove the band. This band is then given to another youngster of his choice who then becomes the futurity bird and since the colors and markings of the futurity picks are generally not noted until the futurty race (a pigeon may race 6 or 7 times and train 25 times before that futurity). Consequently, that's very easy. The other method is to "cram" the band onto an established top bird on their race team. The fact is, it's very easy to stretch a band's diameter enough with a pencil that the leg can be oiled up with vaseline and the band can be forced onto any bird and their original band is simply cut off. This is actually very widely employed throughout the pigeon fancy in average competitive events by putting a current year's band onto an old proven bird. When this is done, you have 100% mature, proven birds competing in shows and races against immature, non proven birds.

Pigeons, be it show or racing are just like any other sport where a great deal of cheating goes on. Bands are just the tip of the iceburg here. Some Racing fanciers have been busted using steroids on birds and a large number of show people are busted for "faking". Naturally, a certain amount of grooming and trimming is allowed on a pigeon which will often entail making some minor cuts and plucks to plumage, oiling the feet and beak, adding all kinds of tonics onto the feathers - afterall, it IS a beauty contest. But, often this goes well beyond. As a judge I've DQ'd birds for faking. I've seen people try to create perfect markings with the help of a magic marker, hair dye and so on. 6 or 7 years ago I actually tossed a four time champion after I noticed that the bird had been born with webbed feet and the owner had went to serious effort to remove the webbing. Many short faced breed fanciers actually chop beaks back (trimming and filing the edges to line them up is allowed, hacking half the beak off to get shorter and shorter beaks isn't). In Russia, I've seen dozens of birds of Statnije breeds with split tails sewn up. A friend of mine once bought a pair of champion Eisk Double Crested Statnije and when they finally moulted, he noticed that some feathers were "stuck together" as he cleaned the loft. The quills had been sewn together right at the base (and the previous owner had done one hell of a job too!) and sure enough, the birds moulted in split tails!

These are just a few examples, and believe me, bands are near the bottom, even tho the ability to fudge it on the bands is a great advantage enough that many clubs don't ship bands until Dec. 30th just to keep people from showing yearlings in young bird classes.


K.D.


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

K.D.,
Thank you for a very informative post. I never knew some fanciers are so paranoid about illness, that they actually shoot non-banded birds in the vicinity of the coop(s). 
Wouldn't they have much less to fear if they vaccinated against parathyphoid and Paramyxo every six months? 
What do these owners do about many other airborne diseases? I've read that 75% of all wild birds carry psitticosis. Are they going to shoot every sparrow that comes along? 



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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

Fred,

Well, I think it's safe to say that 95% of all Racing fanciers vaccinate against PMV and Salmonella at least once a year. Still, the paranoia is there and it does stretch into wild birds such as sparrows. So for example, you will very rarely see any competitive loft that uses 2 inch chicken wire simply because the sparrows can get through it and any decent writer on loft construction will note that in their work.

I'm yet to have known anyone who was paranoid enough to target sparrows in their yard, but I know plenty who definitely take it into account. (ie. all sun pens are covered to insure that wild bird droppings aren't falling through and any spilled grain is quickly cleaned up so as to not encourage
the presence of "pests" (sparrows, mice, rats, etc)

Overall, altho this really can't stop anything that's airborne, there is enough paranoia to at least try.

K.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks again K.D. for a most educational post. As a rescuer of pigeons of any kind (feral or otherwise), I certainly did not know most of the information contained in your post.

For those of us who rescue, the information regarding removal of the band and the bird returning home only to be killed because of the lack of a band was an important lesson.

Thanks for sharing.

Terry Whatley


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