# tying the wings



## newbie001

Hi all, 

*Is tying the wings of pigeons and doves OK? *
My neighbour lets his fantail out in the yard, but he has tied it's wings, so it can't fly. He did this after one of his fantails flew away when he let them out. So I just wanted to know if this practice was harmful or not for the birds?

How does it compare to clipping the wings? 

From a purely amateur layman perspective, it seems that tying is better since you can simply untie the wings and the birds will be able to fly again. Am I correct?


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## spirit wings

newbie001 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> *Is tying the wings of pigeons and doves OK? *
> My neighbour lets his fantail out in the yard, but he has tied it's wings, so it can't fly. He did this after one of his fantails flew away when he let them out. So I just wanted to know if this practice was harmful or not for the birds?
> 
> How does it compare to clipping the wings?
> 
> From a purely amateur layman perspective, it seems that tying is better since you can simply untie the wings and the birds will be able to fly again. Am I correct?


If he feels his bird is safer that way it seems less cruel than some other methods like plucking feathers..BUT.. remember hawks are around and IMO they are sitting ducks for hawk food when handicapped this way..fantails usually do not fly well anyway so if they are let out..one would have to be right there with them the whole time to watch over them from a predator attack..cats can be a problem too..and dogs.. my thinking if they are not good flyers like homing pigeons and some performance breed so they can out fly a hawk and get savvy to them then they should have a flight aviary..esp for fantails that are not a flying breed to be let out.


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## Quazar

newbie001 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> *Is tying the wings of pigeons and doves OK? *
> My neighbour lets his fantail out in the yard, but he has tied it's wings, so it can't fly. He did this after one of his fantails flew away when he let them out. So I just wanted to know if this practice was harmful or not for the birds?
> 
> How does it compare to clipping the wings?
> 
> From a purely amateur layman perspective, it seems that tying is better since you can simply untie the wings and the birds will be able to fly again. Am I correct?


I suppose from which practice is less cruel, then Tying the flights, or even soaping them while theyre out.
This way, the feathers do not have to re-grow, and as you say, the bird can still fly when you untie it.

No matter which way you go, think of it this way.....
If someone was to tie your legs together at the knees, then stand you in the middle of a busy motorway, what would you do ?
A bird that has had its flight taken from it is at the same mercy. It cannot escape from any predators that may spot it.
While I understand the reasons for this, if this is done, then one should always be in attendance to keep an eye out for any predators.
Even so, hawks can be very bold and daring and strike very fast and carry the bird off.


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## LizBerg

I'm assuming he doesn't trim/pluck the wings because they're show birds? I don't really see a problem with it as long as someone is watching them or they have a way of escaping.


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## spirit wings

show bird people would not have any feathers tied, to get messed up or crimped.. show birds are not let out usually.. they are prone to be caught by predators allot easier than other flying breeds.


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## ptras

newbie001 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> *Is tying the wings of pigeons and doves OK? *
> My neighbour lets his fantail out in the yard, but he has tied it's wings, so it can't fly. He did this after one of his fantails flew away when he let them out. So I just wanted to know if this practice was harmful or not for the birds?
> 
> How does it compare to clipping the wings?
> 
> From a purely amateur layman perspective, it seems that tying is better since you can simply untie the wings and the birds will be able to fly again. Am I correct?


I can't understand the logic of tying the wings of a bird that is a poor flyer, and letting it out in your yard. Why not just keep them in? Why let a bird out to "fly" when its wings are clipped or tied???


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## newbie001

He always does supervise them when their out. There are foxes and cats around, but I haven't ever seen any hawks, but crows are about too. 

As for the reason why he does this, it's so that he's little daughter can play with them. He also likes the fact that they are roaming around in the yard. 

I actually just spoke to him, and he has untied the pair of homers he has, and he's untied one of the fantails. The fantail doesn't even bother flying any more, and the homers hardly fly too, they just sit on his or my shed, and that's about it. He has a really fat pair of a polish breed, the name of which I can't remember. Sorry I don't mean to discuss him or anything, just using his practice as a spring board to generate discussion so that I can learn the proper way of doing things before I buy my first pair.


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## spirit wings

newbie001 said:


> He always does supervise them when their out. There are foxes and cats around, but I haven't ever seen any hawks, but crows are about too.
> 
> As for the reason why he does this, it's so that he's little daughter can play with them. He also likes the fact that they are roaming around in the yard.
> 
> I actually just spoke to him, and he has untied the pair of homers he has, and he's untied one of the fantails. The fantail doesn't even bother flying any more, and the homers hardly fly too, they just sit on his or my shed, and that's about it. He has a really fat pair of a polish breed, the name of which I can't remember. Sorry I don't mean to discuss him or anything, just using his practice as a spring board to generate discussion so that I can learn the proper way of doing things before I buy my first pair.


well it depends on the breed of pigeon.. fancy ones if your out with them they should be fine (cross fingers)... to keep them from going far or getting lost..you would keep them for a few months inside and call them to come eat evertime you feed them..that way you can get them inside the loft when you call them..or let them go in at sunset on their own.. for the homing pigeon breed you need to get them young so they do not fly off to their last home.. those are great for letting out to fly..also if your in the UK..the garden "doves" really pigeons of course are beautiful to let out to fly around the loft.


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## newbie001

> well it depends on the breed of pigeon.. fancy ones if your out with them they should be fine (cross fingers)... to keep them from going far or getting lost..you would keep them for a few months inside and call them to come eat evertime you feed them..that way you can get them inside the loft when you call them..or let them go in at sunset on their own.. for the homing pigeon breed you need to get them young so they do not fly off to their last home.. those are great for letting out to fly..also if your in the UK..the garden "doves" really pigeons of course are beautiful to let out to fly around the loft.


What about if I got an actual dove like a white ringneck dove, would it be possible to let them roam around after a few months of feeding and caring? Like doves in general, can they be let out, or must they strictly be kept inside? I keep reading about how much more tame they are than pigeons, but does that mean they won't fly away?


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## spirit wings

newbie001 said:


> What about if I got an actual dove like a white ringneck dove, would it be possible to let them roam around after a few months of feeding and caring? Like doves in general, can they be let out, or must they strictly be kept inside? I keep reading about how much more tame they are than pigeons, but does that mean they won't fly away?


no those are caged birds kept indoors most time or a flight avairy.. they will get lost pretty easy and would perish outside if they did get lost...unlike the more savvy and hardy pigeon.. depending on what breed of course.. what you need to decide first is what you want..if you want to fly birds outside of your home then white homing pigeons or the garden pigeons called "doves" in the UK would be what you want.


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## newbie001

spirit wings said:


> or the garden pigeons called "doves" in the UK would be what you want.


Ahh, pigeons called 'doves', and then there's doves that are meant to be kept inside. I think i've found my source of confusion

So about garden pigeon, can you tell me more about it please?


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## spirit wings

newbie001 said:


> Ahh, pigeons called 'doves', and then there's doves that are meant to be kept inside. I think i've found my source of confusion
> 
> So about garden pigeon, can you tell me more about it please?


I think you need to look around local there in the UK... the confusion is in that in the UK they call the white pigeons that people keep in dovecotes "garden doves"..which really are a white pigeon with a pretty flaired tail... they are not the small white ring neck doves which are not let out, example like a magician would use... here in the US we seldom see the "garden doves"... we usually fly white homing pigeons. the garden doves in the UK I do think are a breed bred for their homing to stay put and for looks.. I think they are a cross of homing pigeon and some fantail in there and perhaps even a roller of some sort.. but now they have their own use...not sure if they are an offical breed of pigeon yet... but anyway.. Your in the UK so you should be able to find resources faster than me... try google UK and type in garden dove for dovecotes.. that is Iam assuming you want pigeons to fly .. still not clear on that.


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## newbie001

spirit wings said:


> the garden doves in the UK I do think are a breed bred for their homing to stay put and for looks.. I think they are a cross of homing pigeon and some fantail in there and perhaps even a roller of some sort.. but now they have their own use...*not sure if they are an offical breed of pigeon yet*


Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know, whether they are categorised as a breed, hence the specific term, or whether this term is something just used for the lay public as more of a marketing strategy, due to the connotations 'dove' has which pigeons don't, namely their association with the heavens etc... 

I've decided I'm going to go for a pair of white garden fantails [Again I've read on another thread they are probably a mix of Indian & American Fantails cross bred with homers]. I've decided on this, in all honesty, simply because of their superb looks! And they do look really pretty in the garden and bring life to it  Another reason is because I've seen my neighbour's fantails, and after 2 months of caring and feeding, the bird doesn't leave his yard any more. Lastly, I also considered white homers, but I'm made to think they'll be more interested in flying around rather than give me their company, as do the fantails. Besides, it's quite difficult to find someone who specifically sells white homers, and when you do they are extortionately priced!


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## newbie001

spirit wings said:


> no those are caged birds kept indoors most time or a flight avairy.. they will get lost pretty easy and would perish outside if they did get lost...unlike the more savvy and hardy pigeon.. depending on what breed of course.. what you need to decide first is what you want..if you want to fly birds outside of your home then white homing pigeons or the garden pigeons called "doves" in the UK would be what you want.


Check this out, this person lets the doves out and most stayed, but still proves what you mentioned. I'm surprised he/she let them out though. The music is soo relaxing too. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPgbbNx9rYk


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