# 'Australian Performing Tumblers - a yellow cock and dilute kite hen????



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Ok, I'll do my best to get this started, I think there will be a few pictures on the computer. I don't have any recent photos of the young that are now a couple of months old. I'll take some tomorrow. Like I mentioned I paired a yellow cock and dilute kite hen. I was just using the pair as feeders for some rollers. When the tumblers laid again I didn't have any roller eggs so I let them raise the young. This may take a while as I need to find the pictures and delete some from the forum to fit them on.

Thanks,

John


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Here is the cock and hen - the best pictures I could find.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

The young ones - I'm going to be limited to how many pictures I can put up without effected another thread. The bird in the bottom right of the group shot.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I can't fit anymore pictures on now?


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

nice, so you were told thats a dilute kite... I'm not sure,.. I havn't bred a bird that colour. It could just be dilute blue with spread and one dose rec red. 
Its obviously carrying one dose rec red as the babies need a dose from each parent to show and the cock has 2 doses.... hes showing rec red with dilute .



you also have some almond rec reds


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

the two squabs are dilute rec red (recessive yellow)


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

do you have a good understanding of recessive red and ash red? the difference and stuff?


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

The breeder who gave me the bird because it didn't have a ring call's it a dilute kite - sulfur. He gets a bit touchy if I call it anything else! On another forum it was called a golden dunn.

Can you tell that those almonds are from a red bird??? They are a far bit older now and quite a bit darker. They are brothers from different rounds. I bet now you call even tell me the colour of the parents!

John


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I have been trying to learn about almonds. I know about the sex linked pairings and getting almonds, I have read up on the use of kites with almonds to improve the colours. From the parents of the almonds I have bred some kites (dirty factor), red agates and almonds. I have another pair and young but that's for another day. For a short time in pigeons and a few pairs of birds I've really getting a lesson in genetics.

John


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

The two birds on the right are the same birds that are in the bowl.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

rec red will mask everything, so you'll never know what other genes your yellow cock bird is carrying without test matings with a few diff coloured hens... for all we know he can be black, blue, ash red, etc under the yellow colour.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I can see both almonds carry blue. 
they could carry ash red but you cant see it.
Both almonds have double dose rec red
and both look dilute

A blue bird can have one dose of brown
an ash red bird can carry one dose of blue or brown
A blue bird can't carry ash red neither can a brown.

two doses of rec red or rec white are like dipping your bird in red or white paint, It covers the bird completely unless other factors like almond pied or grizzle affect it

rec red or rec white can cover a blue bird

so a bird can have one or two doses of blue, rec red, almond, kite, dilute all on the same bird but its important you know the three base colours - brown - blue - ash red

a bird can't carry two doses of blue and one dose of ash red it can only carry two base colour genes

Its late and I'm rambling - You may know most of this but it helps me remember the more I read and write it

Luke


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

thepigeonkey said:


> Both almonds have double dose rec red
> and both look dilute
> 
> 
> ...


actually **** rec red + almond will give you a deroy... and the only bird that can carry 2 dose of sex linked genes (base colour, almond) are only cock birds. Both sexes can however be homozygous for autosomal genes like rec red, rec white, spread, etc....

and you have to be really lucky to see a double dose almond cockbird.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

The parents of the almonds are the red cock and almond hen (the first picture in the thread under Show Breeds). I was beginning to wonder if you Kiwi's ever sleep. It late enough here.

John


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

true, rec red and almond is called deroy and all those genes can be in one cock and he would probably die because of the double dose of almond. it was all hyperthetical to explain the amount of genes that can go into one bird I hadn't explained autosomal and sex linkage yet but thanks  A dilute hen would be hemizygous for dilute aye?

it does help if you can remember which are sex linked and which arn't


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

the two almonds may only be het rec red. do you know much about them? I think its your next thread

It is late. Im off,.. nite


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I breed the almonds. The parents of the almonds are the red cock and almond hen (the first picture in the thread under Show Breeds). 

John


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Hey john fancy seeing you here!

Hows the birds today?

I saw the parents of the almonds. 

Almond is dominant sex linked and dilute is recessive sex linked

so I think a hemi almond hen paired to normal cock can produce almond sons 

a het almond cock paired to a normal hen has almond and normal daughters

but a hemi dilute hen paired to a normal cock will have normal sons carrying dilute

and a dilute cock will have dilute hens

correct me if im wrong someone - I am still learning

does that all sound right?


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/colormatings.htm

This is where I've been getting some training. My red cock/ almond hen produces almond cocks and non-almond hens. I have raised two almond cocks, two agate hens, two kite hens and a red hen from this pair this season. The two kites have the dirty factor.

John


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

you mate any cock birds to an almond hens then all your male chicks will be almond..... same thing as mating any cock birds to an ash red hen.


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