# my dog injured a pigeon, please help!



## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Hello,
Yestedday at the park my ex-racing greyhound used his pray instinct with a wild pigeon. It was my fault, I got distracted. I managed to stop my dog but he stepped on the pigeon. The poor bird walked away from us draging a wing.

Therefore, feeling guilty as hell, sorry for the pigeon and knowing that it will not make it there I brought the bird home and I am trying to figure how to help him/her to heal and fly again. 

The bird looks great in genberal and is eating and drinking, and walking in the big box where I put it. 

I found ways to fix a broken wing on the internet, but how do I know if it is acually broken?? and if it is, how do I inmovilize the wing in the right position? and for how long?

Any help and advice will be really appreciated. I feel realy sorry for my idiotic mistake and just hope to get this beautiful bird to fly again.

Thanks a lot 
Vero


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Could have been worse!

I usually immobilise any injured wing by taping it into its natural position in the simplest way possible as described in this link:

http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/brokenwing.html

I don't think it is as easy as it sounds to determine whether , where and how a wing has fractured by touch alone or to treat the fracture effectively without the benefit of X-ray and often surgery...there is always the danger of mis-alignment, entrapment. deviation and ankylosis. However, external coaption (splints) is the best option if surgery is out of the question.

I have a lot of information and photos of wing fractures and their treatment that is not available on the internet. If you like I can scan them in and e-mail them to you, but for that you will need to send me your e-mail address as the pigeons.com link does not allow attachments.

BTW where are you and what sort of pigeon is it?

Cynthia


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Hi Cynthia,
thanks so much for your help. 

I am a bit happier because I just check on the bird and it tried to take off from the box, and flapped both wings a lot!!! Also, after flapping the injured wing got in a way better position....so, it may not be broken actually, maybe is sored.... I will keep watching.....I do not think I will wrap it up just yet....do you think I should anyway??

I am sorry but I have no idea which kind of pigeon actualy is....is the most coomon type that you can find in the parks with dark grey wings and lighter grey in the top part (shoulder)...The whole head is dark greay, including the pick. I could send you a picture but the flash will spook him a lot. 

At that particular park many people feeds them, and they are allways walking really close to pleople and that is way he probably stayed as we were passing by. I love birds so much and I was so engry with my dog...but the poor thing has been brain wash for whole 4 years to chase moving things!! I adopted him 2 years ago and he is actually not chasing now, but yesterday just got me by surprise....it was all my fault and I feel so awful.

I am in Montreal and if you have pictures that could help, please feel free to email them at [email protected]

Thanks so much
Vero


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vero,

My suggestion for you right now is to try and make a better determination of the condition of the wing. If the wing is indeed broken it can make things much worse by the bird flapping it. An x-ray would be best to do this, but in the mean time try this.

You have one good wing to make a comparison with. It would be great if you had someone to hold the bird while you did the exam. Carefully extend the good wing, feel up and down the entire length a few times, take your time so you know what a good wing kind of feels like. Now, very carefully again, do the same for the wing in question, feel for any breaks or deviations that feel different from the good wing. If you are in doubt, go back to the good wing and then the same spot on the bad wing.

Making a better determination will help us provide the best answers for you.

Ron

PS: If do you find a break, please restrain the wing as shown in the link Cynthia provided you.


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Hi Ron,
thanks so much for your help.

We just did what you suggested with my husband, comparing both wings...and we could not find any breaks or any area that moves differently from the good wing. In fact he is holding his wing much better now, not perfect yet, he is also more active and reluctant to be touched.

So, I am thinking it is not broken....what do you think?

thanks
Veronica


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Veronica,

Yes, this is good news that you did not find anything obvious in your examination and he is holding his wing better.

We have a number of members with a great deal of experience in wing injuries, such as Cynthia, who can offer more assistance than I can right now. It's Sunday and they may be busy with family obligations. Keep him quite, and provide seed and water, as you have done. I do feel it's best to have more experienced people further advise you, just be patient and hopefully someone may be along before too long.

All the best,

Ron


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Vero,

I would immobilise the wing as described by Devorah (Austin Duck Police), just to stop him using it and damaging the soft tissues. It will do him no harm to have it supported for a while, but he could do himself a lot of harm flapping. It is always best to play it safe... it is just like a sling for a human.

Otherwise put him is a container that doesn't encourage him to flap. They will flap and try to fly even when they are badly wounded.


Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What Cynthia said is exactly right. If the bird is holding the wing somewhat normally, then at least restrain the bird in a box that's just too small for it to flap. You can make a low ceiling in a somewhat wider box and it'll do that function just fine while giving the bird enough space to keep from pooping in its food and water (although they'll usually manage to do that anyhow). Give it a few days and look to see if it's doing the typical bird stretches with that wing. What they do is stand on one leg and stretch both the opposite leg and wing backward at the same time. They'll also keep both wings folded but rotate them upwards from the shoulders sometimes. That specific exercise would demonstrate that the shoulder and humerus (the first bone comparable to our upper arm) are okay.

But they can certainly want to get back home to family and flap with a broken bone and do more damage. That can cause a broken to wing that would otherwise have healed just fine to end up limiting flight later.

Pidgey


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Thanks so much for all the advice.

We did another examination to check him better and we found something. There is a wound right at the shoulder, provably form my dogs nail. We cleaned it up with soap and inmovilized the wind as says in the webpage that Cynthia gave me. He did lay on the injured side though, but I remember reading somewhere that is normal when one of the wings is taped.

When we re checked the wing we found again that both wings moved the same way, and there is not extra movement in the injured wing....however, the area where the wound is feels thiker than the other wing. We did not feel this before though. Hope you guys understand what I am trying to explain...english is not my first language and this is my first pigeon ever.

In addition, we realized of another problem...today I do not think he eat or drank at all. Yesterday he did, but today since early afternoon he has been pretty much in one corner and I do not think he moved at all. 

Now is too late, but tomorrow before going to work I will get a sirynge and I will try to give him so water. Is there any wet food that he would take??

Thanks and I hope I have better news tomorrow
Veronica


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

vero said:


> In addition, we realized of another problem...today I do not think he eat or drank at all. Yesterday he did, but today since early afternoon he has been pretty much in one corner and I do not think he moved at all.
> 
> Now is too late, but tomorrow before going to work I will get a sirynge and I will try to give him so water. Is there any wet food that he would take??
> Veronica



Hi Veronica,

I don't have much actual hands on experience in dealing with injured birds but I thought I would provide you with the following thread...just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

I know you already have the bird isolated, but it might be a good idea if you can provide a heat source for the bird....the thread gives you ideas for providing additional heat....sometimes the extra heat will help them because they can use all their energy in healing and will help perk them up. Also, it's important to try to get some hydration into the bird if he has not been eating or drinking.

First, try to get some heat under him and then get him hydrated and then you can worry about the food...they eat a seed diet, but some of our members have used dried dog kibble that has been soaked in water till puffy, cut into small pieces and then hand fed to the bird, in cases of emergency.

I'm sure others will be along w/ good (and probably better) advice soon, but I just wanted to provide you with that thread while you're waiting.

Good luck,
Linda


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You probably better get an antibiotic in that bird pretty fast then--there is an illness that birds can get called "Pasteurella multocida". It's a simple bacteria that is easily beaten by antibiotics like Amoxicillin, Augmentin (which is a combination of Amoxicillin with Clavulanic Acid--it's also called "Clavamox" or "Synulox") and a few others. The bacteria is commonly found in cat or dog saliva and possibly claw punctures as well. It can be lethal to birds and it's progressive. It's usually better to treat first and ask questions later on all dog or cat attacked birds because by the time it starts showing up, there's very little time left. Call a vet.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I put birds with puncture wounds on Clavamox regardless of whether it came from dog, cat, hawk, tooth or claw because animal claws are never clean and will have introduced bacteria deep into the body.

I also flush the wound with sterile saline (put some in a syringe and squirt into the cavity), dab with a sterile swab and then pack with hydrogel.

Cynthia


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

thanks so much for all the help!.

here is the up date.....there is another puncture wound under the injured wing, I did not see it before because is hiding under the feathers, so we cleaned up that one too...both woods look dried and not obviously infected. Anyway, this afternoon after work I will get an antibiotic for him. 

I still have him with the wing inmovilized and today I gave him water and milk (diluted with water). We wrapped him up a little tighter now becuse he managed to undo the previous two bandages....do not worry!! he is breathing ok!!.

Since he does not seems to be interested in drinking or eating, could you please let me know if is ok to give milk?? I know that people gives milk to baby birds, but what about an adult?? In the internet I found that baby formula is good for an adult bird...is it?? How much food and water (in cc) should I give him??

And last thing, is it ok that he leans on his injured side when I put the badanges on?? or that means that I did it wrongly??

Thanks so much for all the help!
Veronica


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Vero,

Please read this sticky:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

Birds, including Pigeons are not set up to easily digest dairy products, so please do not give him any more milk, even diluted. In the sticky above there are directions for making a re-hydrating fluid, best for him right now since as you say, he is not really eating or you could also buy some unflavored Pedialyte for him.

As Cynthia and Pidgey mentioned, Clavamox, also know as Augmentin as Pidgey mentions, would be the antibiotic of choice to treat for a possible Pasteurella infection, if you can not manage to get this, at least try and get Amoxicillan.

I am sure Cynthia will be along before too long to further advise on some of your other questions.

All the best,

Ron


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am wondering whether this pigeon was already sick or injured to start with and that is what caused him to be so slow that the dog trod on him.

Are you absolutely certain that he isn't eating or drinking? They often pretend to have been statues all the time when really they are having a crafty feed. One way to test this is to put down three or four raw peanuts just within reach and leave the room, then check if the peanuts are there on your return.

Because they are seed eaters they need quite a lot of water in a day,specially if they are eating...I think it works out at about 100mls *per kilo * of bird, but their alimentary canal can oly cope with 25 mls *per kilo* at a time, so little and often is best.

Sometimes they are slow to understand that the bowl set out for them has water in it. Try dipping the pigeon's beak in the water and see if it drinks.

Can you also check inside its mouth? It should be pink, if it is pale or has cheesy growths let us know. And is he pooping? If so, what are the poops looking like?

Lin made a good point about the warmth, it helps them conserve energy.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

vero said:


> here is the up date.....there is another puncture wound under the injured wing, I did not see it before because is hiding under the feathers, so we cleaned up that one too...both woods look dried and *not obviously infected.* Anyway, this afternoon after work I will get an antibiotic for him.


There is a difference between an infection being localized versus being systemic. When we worry about a Pasteurella multocida infection from a cat, dog, hawk etc. bite, claw puncture or even just a lick, we're mostly worried about it becoming a systemic infection that doesn't particularly present signs of a localized infection. In such a case, the infection becomes bloodborne and then it affects the organs. It can go from bad to worse quite quickly. 

When you add to that the tendency of birds to hide illness or weakness right up to the point where they're almost falling down dead, it's a bad combo for making a diagnosis too late. That's why we treat first and ask questions later. Granted, we've seen a lot of cases (possibly the majority) that the bird was not medicated after a cat/dog/hawk attack and lived to tell about it. That could be mostly due to the fact that pigeons are about the toughest bird on earth, but it just can't be said for certain as it's really a case-by-case deal. It's just better to take out an insurance policy.

When you get an antibiotic, we hope you got it from a vet with dosing instructions. However, if you didn't and you're flying blind, post the info about the antibiotic--it's name and form (e.g., 500 milligram pills)--and somebody will get back to you on how to dose it out to the bird.

As to the possibilities about the bird's wing, it could also be a pre-existing condition as has been mentioned. There's one in particular that affects their wings in an arthritic condition--a form of Salmonellosis (commonly called "Paratyphoid") that causes swelling in a/the joints of the legs and wings. It usually presents in just one joint but it can affect more. There is generally a swelling of the infected joint that produces a boil (almost like a blister but sometimes harder-feeling) that may sometimes burst. When it is a chronic condition, the actual joint may enlarge and become arthritic--the bird may want to use it less and less. This is, obviously, a debilitating condition that usually requires a long term treatment (about a month) with a different antibiotic, usually a fluoroquinolone like Ciprofloxacin (Cipro) or Enrofloxacin (the veterinary-only equivalent to Cipro usually called "Baytril").

That's one possibility and re-reading your descriptions, it's tough to make a determination. Can you describe precisely where the possible swelling (you said "thicker") and punctures are? You might be able to describe the spot using these drawings to compare:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The paratyphoid boil will appear on the joint of the wing. The problem is that a healthy joint will feel thickened and look swollen to the inexperienced eye, particularly if the feathering around it had been damaged.


Cynthia


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Hello everyone, and thanks for all the help.

He is doing way better, he is trying to get out of the box when I remove the net on top and is way stronger...and Cynthia was right HE IS EATING!! I relaized that there are less seeds left and the bread wsa mostly gone. This morning I opened his mouth and checked inside and it looks good, not milky stuff or anything and his eyes and feather look clean, neat and great.

By the way...we were not able to get any king of bandage that he was not able to undo. We did it tighter, and tighter and still he manuvered around it and got it off!...I do not think that a bird with a broken wing would do that, would it?? I will take a picture today and show you guys how it looks.

I tried to get antibiotics yesterday, I went to a vet hospital and they did not have anything in the right dosage for birds. They also told me that they or any other vet would not give me antibiotics without seeing the bird and refered me to an avian vet close by. He also said that if it is a sick or injured pigeon the vet will suggest to put him down for concern of transmitting disease. So, I went to the avian vet but was already close when I got there....but I am not willing to take the pigeon over there to be told to put it down just because he is getting better. The only reason why I would put him down is if he can not fly ever again....I will not be able to have a bird like that in my apartment and I do not know of anyone that would take him in. But for now I will keep him as long as I (and you guys) think is needed to get him better. 

So, here I am without the antibiotics. But, on the bright side, hes wounds are dry and clean and are healing and he looks great...I have seen animals with infections before, and he does not look like that at all.

So, that is the up date for now.
Thanks again and I will keep you guys posted.
Veronica


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Vero,

They hate being bandaged up and I have at times given up after a few days.

I am very discouraged by the sheer volume of cases that we have where vets advise people routinely to put pigeons down and the overwhelming amount of people, even compassionate animal lovers, that consider them to be diseased or germy.

We are a large group, we *must* be able to influence public opinion although it is harder to get positive information across that negative stuff.

Cynthia


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

I was just re-reading some of the answers...and since I am still without the antibiotics...I was just thinking that if the pigeon does have a systemic infection he should have a fever. Do you guys know what is the normal temp of a pigeon and how can I check his temp?? I guess rectal??

Cynthia, yes...it was kind of anoying to have a vet telling me that since it is a pigeon I should put him down...he was not an avian vet and he did not see the pigeon at all!! I think this pigeon has an oportunity to recover...he is not looking siker, rather he is getting stronger...if he was looking really bad and really sick and in a lot of disconfort I will do the most humane thing...but now, at least for me, it is out of the question. If at the end of this ordeal he is not able to fly I will do my best trying to locate it and maybe through this group I can find someone in my area willing to take him in...but I do not whant to worry about all that yet...now he needs to put that left wing in the right position and hold it there!!

About the bandage...today I did not bandage him because it seems that by handling him I was disturbing him more than helping ...after all I knew that he will eventually manage to take the whole thing off... 

I will put a picture up tonight, so you gusy can see him...he is abeautiful bird.

Thanks so much
Vero


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## vero (Aug 6, 2006)

Hi Pidgey
Sorry, I meant to ask your question when having more time an dthen I forgot. 

The area that is thiker or bigger is the connection between the radious and the carpometacarpus...it is not just the join, it is the area. But the wounds are not there...the wounds are one on the top of the wing and the other one under the wing on the side. Although, the one on the side was hiding in between the feathers and was much dryer than the other one, it may have been older and caused by another animal....if that is the case he maybe had already a problem before meeting Argus (my dog).

However, when I move the wing I can move it that join....is not that it is hard to move. It is true that it feels hard...no harder than the other side bu just larger. But again, if that condition is caused by an infection, he should be runnig a fever, don't you think?

Thanks a lot for your help!
Veronica


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