# Help a new fancier



## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

I was wondering if a male pigeon (he's a pouter and is kind with female pigeons) and a female ringnecked dove would get along in the same cage it would be just the two of them. A book I have been reading, The Pigeon, says that a ringneck pigeon hybrid is possible, but would they get along or even pair up ? Please tell me as much as possible. Also, does anyone know if I could use a chain link outdoor kennel as an aviary? I though I might be able to put the loft inside the kennel so the pigeon would have more freedom to fly around.Thanks alot!


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## g_girl313 (May 31, 2011)

They will certainly get along in the cage, as long as there is enough room for both birds. Even if it is physically possible, the likely hood of those two mating isn't very high. You would do better to buy a hen for your pouter, and perhaps another ringneck dove. 

How big is the kennel. Just curious.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Welcome to PT.
To house pigeons, they need a cage/loft/aviary with no larger than 1/2 inch wire mesh (NO Chicken Wire). Predators can gain access thru chain link  Rats, mice, snakes, even hawks, raccoons and cats can reach thru and grab the birds. You also want to make sure nothing can dig underneath. Mice droppings alone cause salmonella and will make the birds very sick.
I would take a look thru the 'Loft Design' section here for ideas.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You already have the dog kennel that would work if you put 1/2 inch wire mesh on the inside of it. You could even put the mesh on the ground.
Dave


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

and to add... the chainlink kennel in that picture..well the dove could get right out of that around the gate to get in.. these two may get along just fine.. depending on what kind of pouter you have some are quiet gentle.. just be sure to house them correctly.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

This isnt the real kennel were looking at the one were looking at has a roof and no escapable holes but still has a chain link door for easy access .
and I spray animal repelant that does not affect birds but repels bad animals . Also would it be a good idea to test the two before I bought the dove if I did to see if they get along?I dont care if they breed I was just wondering if they would get along in a friendship.
Finnally can you help me find pigeon or dove breeders near my area? (they dont have to be breeders) If you can thanks a lot!


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## g_girl313 (May 31, 2011)

Where are you?


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

look at the top right corner of one of my letters? Sorry i dont mean to be rude but just look, im trying to be safe.tell me as much info as possible. Thanks!


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## Rafael/PR (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Eddie
Im not trying to be rude but first , bad idea if that going to be your pigeon home . for one, you live in Minnesota, right ? so in 6 months from now it be freezing cold with high winds. two, chain-link to keep the bird in ? bad Idea also the Predators will have a field day with you birds, raccoons alone will get in they are one of the smartest animal around and no spray repellant for predators is not going to work ,only if it was that easy. your two birds will get along fine but they both need a enclose area away from the elements . remember what i see in that picture your turning a dog kennel to a bird aviary that only work if you live in a place like where i live it always warm never get below 55 where i live. if you see my album you see what i mean. your best bet is to build a small style loft like this link http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/introductory-loft-challenge-48832.htmlor build a nice size one here a good place to start http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm , good luck.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't know about putting them together, as I have always heard that a pigeon can harm a dove too easily. But I do know that sprays around the aviary will not keep out predators. If you were to cover that with hardware cloth as suggested, then it would work as far as protection for birds. What is it that you will be putting inside for housing? It was also mentioned that your winters are cold and I think most keep doves inside during cold weather.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

eddiebrown said:


> This isnt the real kennel were looking at the one were looking at* has a roof and no escapable holes but still has a chain link door for easy access .
> and I spray animal repelant that does not affect birds but repels bad animals . *Also would it be a good idea to test the two before I bought the dove if I did to see if they get along?I dont care if they breed I was just wondering if they would get along in a friendship.
> Finnally can you help me find pigeon or dove breeders near my area? (they dont have to be breeders) If you can thanks a lot!


Roof is good, but chain link and repellant are not good. And as Rafael said, if repellent worked....We'd ALL be using it! Alot of us have learned the hard way and have lost birds to predators by not having secure enclosures. It's not a pretty site!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Don't know about putting them together, as I have always heard that a pigeon can harm a dove too easily. But I do know that sprays around the aviary will not keep out predators. If you were to cover that with hardware cloth as suggested, then it would work as far as protection for birds. What is it that you will be putting inside for housing? It was also mentioned that your winters are cold and I think most keep doves inside during cold weather.


Ya, I didn't *think* doves could live outside in cold climates. I have 2 rescued ringnecks that I keep inside. If I'm wrong, please correct me, because I would love to build them their own little loft outside


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Dont worry I have a coop that has a heat lamp in the winter that keeps it warm would know Ive lived in minnesota l my whole life and some of my friends have poultry heat is not the problem but thanks anyway. And also repelant must work because my dog doesnt bother the coop anymore since I sprayed it the spray is like pepper spray animals dont like the taste or smell of it but ill think about the netting inside the aviary idea . Finnaly has anyone been searching for breeders lately, if so thanks!You guys are a big help!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks i didnt know doves were more delicate to low temps.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

usually pigeons are not kept in a chain link aviary.. repellent washes off when it rains.. to keep pigeons they need to be enclosed with hardware cloth.. predator proof. If your going to do it , do it right from the beginning and it will save you allot of trouble and perhaps bird deaths... some pigeons that are docile like pygmy pouters can be ok with doves..but where you live ring neck dove would not do well outdoors..so I would stick with pigeons if your wanting outdoor birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

eddiebrown said:


> Dont worry I have a coop that has a heat lamp in the winter that keeps it warm would know Ive lived in minnesota l my whole life and some of my friends have poultry heat is not the problem but thanks anyway. And also repelant must work because my dog doesnt bother the coop anymore since I sprayed it the spray is like pepper spray animals dont like the taste or smell of it but ill think about the netting inside the aviary idea . Finnaly has anyone been searching for breeders lately, if so thanks!You guys are a big help!



If repellent worked for raccoons and rats, we'd all use it. Isn't something you can depend on keeping them out. And as was mentioned, it washes away. So during long rainy days on end, wouldn't be very helpful. 

How big is your coop that you would be putting in there?


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks you people have really helped so far, I hope for more info ! Thanks!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone know of breeders near Duluth Mn pleae help I only know of one in Sturgeon Lake are there any others? If so thanks!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You haven't answered my question. You had said that you would be putting a "coop" in the chained link area. Do you mean an actual enclosed area, or nest boxes or what? 

Before trying to get birds for the area, maybe it would be a good idea to first learn what they need and get something fixed up that they would be safe and well in.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

eddiebrown said:


> Does anyone know of breeders near Duluth Mn pleae help I only know of one in Sturgeon Lake are there any others? If so thanks!


I'm not trying to be negative, but you probably won't get many responses from people selling birds if your going to put them in a chain link run. Most people care about where their birds go, and the one's that sell or give you any birds don't care. They won't last a month with chain link.
If your going to get pigeons, at least do it right and make them safe with proper shelter.
And I don't know or care how anyone else feels about heat lamps in with birds and livestock, but heat lamps are not safe. We had 4 barn fires up here last winter, all livestock and chickens were killed with the exception of 3 horses. Cause- heat lamps during the cold weather to keep livestock and water warm 
Don't cut corners when it involves a living creature, its your responsibility to ensure their safety


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone have anymore info on breeeders or doves and pigeons? ill always have more to learn.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't seem very interested in learning. Don't know why you asked about the chain link run to begin with. But if caring about the animals you keep isn't a priority with you then I don't think you are ready to own animals.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone know of breeders near me?Thanks! Also what breeds can pouters cross with?


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

You don't seem very interested in learning. Don't know why you asked about the chain link run to begin with. But if caring about the animals you keep isn't a priority with you then I don't thin you are ready to own animals.
__________________QUOTE
Thanks for putting me down im trying to help my pigeon with better living quarters this will make me consider leaving this website ill probably try to find another.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the info ive learned a lot! Thanks!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Im not going to use the chain link because of what you guys said but if i do ill cover the inside with mesh.Thanks!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does any one know of breeders near me?


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## blacksheep (May 8, 2010)

Eddie, 

Welcome to the site. As far as breeders in MN, go to county fairs, bird swaps, and the state fair. You will find all the breeders there. Also, search on craigslist under "farm and garden," for your location. This has served me well. I met a great gentlemen just 15 minutes away, who sold me some excellent birds with even better prices.

This is another valuable site. It contains animal swaps in WI and MN. 

http://www.triplespringacres.com/birdswapsandauctions.htm

I would second making sure that the birds shelter is fully complete prior to buying birds. The chain link fence seems like a great idea at first, but Im glad your deciding not to go that route. Plus, they are incredibley expensive. Build a small loft if you only have 2 birds. In WI, were required to provide 1.5 sq ft per bird. Most on here would say at least 2 sq ft. 

A fly pen or avairy is also extremely important, especially if you only have two birds. I'm not sure about your location, but in WI, birds of prey are everywhere. You will loose some, it is just part of the game if you fly your birds. Getting back to my point, a fly pen would provide that needed excercise for your birds while keeping them safe.

Good luck.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

eddiebrown said:


> ]And also repelant must work because my dog doesnt bother the coop anymore since I sprayed it the spray is like pepper spray animals dont like the taste or smell of it but ill think about the netting inside the aviary idea . Finnaly has anyone been searching for breeders lately, if so thanks!You guys are a big help!


Just because your dog doesn't like it, doesn't mean that the rats, snakes, and other hungry animals who don't get fed everyday will leave it alone. Plus, half of the living threats to your birds can dig. 

Why don't you just build something indoors, like a simple cage or aviary, or buy an insulated chicken coop setup that you can alter for pigeons?

If you want outdoor birds, it's probably best to just stay with pigeons. They are hardier.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Actually a dog run works quite well is set up correctly. I have a dog run which I modifed to be enclosed all around and on top. It is also covered with ta tarp to shade them during hot days. You can also attach hardware cloth to the link fabric. Mine is attached to their coop. They never sleep in it though. My pigeons are kept in private small animal cages at night in the coop which not only has hardware cloth but mosquito netting for added protection from flying critters!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Victor said:


> Actually a dog run works quite well is set up correctly. I have a dog run which I modifed to be enclosed all around and on top. It is also covered with ta tarp to shade them during hot days. You can also attach hardware cloth to the link fabric. Mine is attached to their coop. They never sleep in it though. My pigeons are kept in private small animal cages at night in the coop which not only has hardware cloth but mosquito netting for added protection from flying critters!


I still think a ringneck dove could get out of it though. (Since he was talking about keeping a ringneck with the pigeons for some reason  )

Plus, I wouldn't want to put little doves through Minnesota winters.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

eddiebrown said:


> You don't seem very interested in learning. Don't know why you asked about the chain link run to begin with. But if caring about the animals you keep isn't a priority with you then I don't thin you are ready to own animals.
> __________________QUOTE
> *Thanks for putting me down im trying to help my pigeon with better living quarters this will make me consider leaving this website ill probably try to find another.*


Nobody is putting you down. You posted a picture of a dog run and asked for advise. Your getting advise, and then arguing with it 
Sooooo, there is nothing wrong with using a dog run IF modified correctly so that predators can't get to your birds. - Rats will tunnel underneath to get inside - they will kill the birds ( I lost almost half (roughly 27) of my birds to a rat massacre!) Mice can flatten their body and squeeze thru a 1/2 to 3/4 inch gap - mice droppings carry salmonella and will make the birds sick. Raccoons, cats, hawks and other predators can reach thru chain link and grab the birds. They will kill the birds right thru the chain link. And repellents do not work for most predators when their on a mission. 
You will need to cover the chain link (sides, top, bottom and door gaps) with 1/2 wire mesh. Put some kind of tarp over the top (as mentioned), and put a wooden box or hutch type shelter inside for them to get into to keep warm and dry.
To be quite honest, if your only getting a couple birds, you would be better off (and it would be cheaper) to get a 'rabbit hutch' type setup - up off the ground.
This is the best forum around! So there's no need to run off just because you don't like the advise. Your going to get honest advise here from top breeders, racers and fanciers that care about the birds and want to help others keep their birds safe. So stop arguing, listen and learn, and get your priorities (safe loft) in order before you get your birds


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Waynette is right, and everything she is saying is true. She went through a terrible ordeal, and is trying to save you from going through the same. You really need to heed this advice. We are only trying to tell you how to keep your birds safe. We are not trying to put you down, just trying to tell you how to protect your birds. If being honest with you, rather than stroking you is driving you off, then nothing we can do about that. That is in how you handle constructive criticism.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Ive fixed the coop the have a nice aviary and a warm large coop no need to worry netting is being used thanks for the help my coop is now done.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

I need no more help thanks! Now im looking for a hen near me!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

You don't seem very interested in learning.But if caring about the animals you keep isn't a priority with you then I don't thin you are ready to own animals.
__________________QUOTE
That doent seem constructive to me.But thanks for the info my pigeon is safe!


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

My loft is off of the ground and it is warm trust me ive lived here my whole life and i know other breeders in my area I ask them about heating dont worry.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

eddiebrown said:


> You don't seem very interested in learning.But if caring about the animals you keep isn't a priority with you then I don't thin you are ready to own animals.
> __________________QUOTE
> That doent seem constructive to me.But thanks for the info my pigeon is safe!



That comment was made _after_ you blew off the constructive criticism.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Any way thanks!


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Paying attention to people that have lived through it already is the key to the added success with ones birds .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> Paying attention to people that have lived through it already is the key to the added success with ones birds .



Good point. I know I learned a lot from the help of others who had already been there, so to speak. It's a lot better to learn that way, than by having something happen and you have to learn the hard way.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone know of good Fancy hns for sale? No one is responding to my other threads.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

They dont like that you used chicken wire. I know of at least one respected member here who i saw that there loft had some chicken wire on it. I know people wouldn't jump on that person though and not provide that person a bird.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Paki Tipplers said:


> They dont like that you used chicken wire. I know of at least one respected member here who i saw that there loft had some chicken wire on it. I know people wouldn't jump on that person though and not provide that person a bird.


Many people have been warned of the dangers of chicken wire, regardless of who it was.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Im saying, i bet you would give the person im talking about a bird. And i bet you wouldn't nag the person about it.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Dear eddie, 

i have been following this thread and others with interest. People MAY consider selling you a bird if you show them an image of your existing coop with hardware cloth half inch on it. You say this has been done - then put a current image up.

Otherwise, it most likely won't happen. People really care what happens to the birds they breed and an owner who does not appear to be listening to basic safety Advice regarding the securement of his current birds is unlikely to get another pigeon from a reputable breeder. 

Why not focus on first improving the conditions of your current bird? Why the big rush?consider focusing on befriending and learning about your first breed of pigeon first. 

While your cute little pouter pal is alone this is a good opportunity to slowly build up trust and rapport with the bird. (I personally think this is easier to do however with indoor pigeons).

It is easy to rush in and housing requirements aside, choose the wrong breed to pair with your existing bird. I made this mistake - i bought a hen for my human bonded bird, who has no interest in pigeons! 

This makes my heart ache for my black American fantail hen, who loves my human bonded feral cock birdf from afar. 

Anyway, I reckon if you have a picture of your cage with the correct mesh you will have better luck. 

Understand it's not personal, people on here just REALLY love their birds and care deePly about their future wellbeing. 

Best of luck, 

Kamz


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Paki Tipplers said:


> Im saying,* i bet you would give the person im talking about a bird. *And i bet you wouldn't nag the person about it.


Well I know I wouldn't.


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## eddiebrown (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone on this website sell decent pouters?


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