# Foot string injuries UK



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I get a lot of pigeons with foot injuries caused by various types of string. I find these injuries to be complicated to deal with. The flesh around the injury can become swollen and make it hard to remove the string, also these swollen lumps often look like they are infected with something. I have seen a video of someone cutting open one of these lumps and puss pouring out, he then treated the birds with something to stop it coming back. I cannot find this video now, although the information would be useful to me.

I have dealt with another bird with bad foot injuries today. I have got as much of the string off as I can, but I am not sure I have got it all off because of the swelling. Unlike the previous bird, there is no sign of dead toes. Because I live very near the Thames, I think a lot of the string injuries come from there, you often see string of various types floating by.

Is anyone aware of a good article on dealing with these type of injuries? I'm sure some vet somewhere must have written an article on dealing with string injuries. If anyone can point me in the direction of such an article, I would be very grateful. I feel I lack experience in this area and yet it is the injury I deal with the most.

Thank you,
Brian.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*
Here is one of our UK links that actually talks about string injuries. If you haven't seen it, check it out there is a lot of very useful information besides this subject, including rescue resources.

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/feet.htm *


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you, this page has been very useful to me. I need to do something about not having access to a vet. I am going to try to talk to the vets directly, as I have some suspicion that the staff are not telling the vets of the help I am requesting, I may get a better hearing from the vets if I talk to them directly. If this fails I will have to travel to one of the avian vets on the list.

Using creams to try and loosen the tight thread is a good idea and I will try this. I am giving the pigeons some Tramadol solution to help with pain, but Metacam may be better if I can get it. Again I need a vet!

I will look into the treatment of pox, the bird I rescued today has the nodules that the article says indicate pox. I have managed to get some human antibiotic cream for myself that I have kept for the birds, I am applying this already.It is called Fucibet and has Fusidic acid and betamethasone valerate (steroid) in it. I am hoping the steroid is a benefit and helps the treatment.

Thank you for the link,
Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

She is very reluctant to let me even rub the cream on her feet. They are very hot, which I suppose is a sign of success since it shows that blood is now flowing into the toes. She is eating and drinking and seems lively, just her feet are too painful to walk on so she is in the sitting position all the time.
I continue to put the antibiotic and steroid cream on. One of the toes is swollen and the claw is missing and it looks like it might have pox or an infection inside. It looks yellowish but I cannot see any puss. I am not sure if I have removed all the string as there are black marks where the string was, but I have been unable to slip a blunt edge under any string so I am hoping it is just marks. We will see as things start to heal.
I am considering whether to use internal antibiotics, like Enroflox, as well? Would anyone like to express an opinion?

Thank you,
Brian.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Poor baby, thanks again for helping him/her.

I would recommend an antibiotic if there is an infection.

also, have you tried the Neem oil? It will help loosten deeply inbedded thread, if there is any left.
*


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I will get the neem oil as soon as I can, as it sounds like it will work a treat. The chemist I spoke to seems to think the antibiotic cream will soak through the skin and work on the infection, he just suggested to spread it thin because of the steroid. I think I will wait a few days to see if this cream is able to deal with the infection. I don't want to overload the birds liver with the enroflox if it is unnecessary. I will keep a close eye on the toe and see if it is getting better. If it continues to look infected then I will use the enroflox.

Thank you,
Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Something I have just noticed. I was trying to examine the pigeons feet to see if I had got all the nylon off, and I used my torch. If you shine the torch directly under the feet, you can see if there are any dark threads there. I was pleased that I could not see any dark thread. There are some very powerful 1.5 and 2 million candle torches on ebay for about £10-£12, and I am going to try an get one. I think the more powerful the light the better chance you have of seeing any thread. This is an injury I get often so I think it is worth the cost of a good torch.

Brian.

P.s. In view of the swollen infected toe that looks very painful, I have given her a dose of Enroflox plus the antibiotic cream. The nylon went so deep on that toe that I am surprised it has not gone black, but it is going to take time for the blood supply to return to normal. I have also given her another dose of Tramadol, although this may slow the healing a little, the toes are hot and swollen and obviously painful, and I think she deserves a little pain relief.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Would you recommend a neem cream or just the neem oil? I am not sure which is best for this purpose?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I would get organic neem oil. Make sure it is alcohol free.*


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you, I've seen some nice organic cold pressed neem oil on ebay and I will get it asap.

Just another little observation, the numbers of females to males when it comes to foot string injuries seems significant. I wonder if this is because the females are out all day looking for food while the males sit on the nest?

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I hope I have not left some babies without a mother? She got past me at the door yesterday, but I was able to recapture her today. She did not fly off straight away when she escaped, she hung around with the flock. I hope this indicates that she does not have a nest with young. I do not think she could nest with such a bad foot injury anyway, she was crawling around on the floor.

I was so angry with myself for letting her escape past me at the door yesterday and I am so pleased to have caught her again. I will be more careful.
Obviously she does not understand what I am doing, all she knows is I keep touching her sore feet. I am not surprised she tried to escape.
She is back on antibiotic cream and Enroflox antibiotic. I have also given her some painkiller again as the feet still look swollen and sore. I will get the neem oil as soon as I can as she will probably benefit from having some rubbed in to her feet, and it will allow me to check again I have definitely got rid of the nylon twine.

Brian.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Brian, 

I really like using this curved, hook-like scalpel blade when removing string from a pigeon's feet. 

The blade is sharp on the inner/concave edge, and sharp a short distance at the tip on the outer/convex edge. 

It's great for slipping the blade into the groove made by the string, parallel to the string, so that the blade does not contact any living flesh. 

The tip easily snags any string, and a gentle tug will pull any string out of the groove. If the wound has scabbed over, or partly healed, he string can be removed through the initial access opening, and one can leave the other scar tissue undisturbed. 

Sharp scissors have the advantage of pinching through the thread without any tug against the leg, but scissors also require a bit of space for manoeuvring.

A person can put some tape (and maybe part of a popsicle stick, for example) around the base of the blade, tape it with ordinary cellophane tape against something such as a credit card, and easily carry it as an EDC (EveryDayCarry) item.

Larry 


https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/...7/4993278104073469970?authkey=CO-nxK62x7yclAE


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes that looks like an excellent instrument, I was doing maneuvers similar to what you describe when trying to check in the grooves for more string. I will look around to see where I might buy such a tool?

thank you,
Brian.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

This type of scalpel is a widely available surgical scalpel. Available at arts and crafts stores, some hardware stores, vet supplies, etc.

Martor scalpel blade no. 12 is not quite as common as the regular profiles.

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http://www.martor.com/find_scalpel_blade.html?&L=iqqhrlqbjhieg

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blade:

Skalpellklinge Nr. 12
scalpel blade no. 12
klein small

Länge:	37.00 mm length
Breite:	9.50 mm width
Materialstärke:	0.40 mm thicknsss

http://www.martor.de/scalpel_blade_12.html?&L=1#

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plastic scalpel with blade:

http://www.martor.de/scalpel_22112.html?&L=1

metal scalpel with metal


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you, I will check this out shortly and post back if I find an easy place to order them over the internet.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Scalpel and blade prices*

Martor scalpel blade is no. 12
Scalpel is no. 3

Martor supplier in Belgium near Antwerp,
Toussaint.be (near Antwerp and Mechelen, Belgium) lists

Martor catalog (online PDF) page 24 
Martor blades, item number 12.50, 10 pieces in box, price 5,90 Euro
Martor blades, item number 12.51, 10 pieces on card, price 6,30 Euro
6,30 Euro is about $ 8.20 USD, or 5.07 £ UK.

Martor catalog (online PDF) page 15
Martor scalpel, item 2311, 8,20 Euro.
8,20 € is about $ 10,67 USD, or 6.59 £ GBP.

I think these are brutto prices (Belgian 23% VAT included). Delivery postage and shipping probably extra.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have found this ebay seller who sells scalpels, I don't know what type of handle would be best? Can you suggest a good handle type?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCALPEL-B..._Tools_Accessories_2&var=&hash=item3f13f2e67c

Ah I jumped the gun, it looks like handle number 3 is the only one available for this type of blade?

Looks like a good price, I think I will get them from this seller.

And this is the handle....... again looks like a good price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swann-Mor...craft_Tools_Accessories_2&hash=item415b68c0dd


Do you think this is a good place to buy the scalpel?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I realise the above purchase is a set of 10 of each of 5 different blades for handle no.3. It might work out a good thing as I could also try out some of the other types of blade.

I think there is also a wider choice of possible handles for blade no.12. I don't know if you have a preferred type of handle you would like to recommend?

There are other sellers who are selling packs of 100 no.12 blades for about £12, and there are also sellers selling a combined handle no.3 and 5 blade no.12 for about £4 including postage. What do you think of these deals? I am thinking it might be good to have a mix of blades to try out?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Believe it or not, most of those e-bay shop sites are a bit pricey by the time you add delivery etc.
Try here 
Handle can be bought separate & choose whatever sets of blades you want (scroll down for no12 internal curved one)


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hmmm yes they are cheaper. Thank you.

I was just looking through the ebay seller and a lot of the 'tools' they are selling there could be potentially useful for working with twine injuries on pigeons. I am thinking especially of 'elevators' which could help get under the twine and lift it away from the skin so it can be cut.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

This is a great day, I am really pleased I have been shown these tools. It seems these string and twine injuries seem to be the most common thing I see in pigeons, and having a good mobile tool set could improve my ability to clean up these injuries.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I am reluctant in using Neem oil. I used it onces on a pecked pigeon and she got a huge lump, as if the flesh was feeding on neem oil. I stopped using it and the lump is down. My assumption is that once you released the foot, toes from the tie, even if there's a part of thread in the skin, with time the skin itself will decrease from swallowing at least...if the thread stays inside she will have something like a lump. But in general i know that the body eliminates any strange object from the skin. Look at the surgeries done on the skin, sutured with threads. They let the threads untill they fall or can be removed by pulling.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> Hmmm yes they are cheaper. Thank you.
> 
> I was just looking through the ebay seller and a lot of the 'tools' they are selling there could be potentially useful for working with twine injuries on pigeons. I am thinking especially of 'elevators' which could help get under the twine and lift it away from the skin so it can be cut.


In theory, the idea is good, but it may actually pull the thread much tighter against the foot, and depending how bad the injury is, could make it worse.



BHenderson said:


> This is a great day, I am really pleased I have been shown these tools. It seems these string and twine injuries seem to be the most common thing I see in pigeons, and having a good mobile tool set could improve my ability to clean up these injuries.


Just beware no one spots you, a scalpel like that can be considered as "carrying a knife" and some police officers are "jobsworths" when things are reported.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes I agree I could get carried away, it may turn out that the sharpness of some of the instruments is a problem as well. I will probably just stick to the scalpel suggested. This is a very difficult injury to deal with though, especially when it is so painful to the bird. I am always gentle and give them lots of breaks, but it would be good if in the really difficult cases we could numb their feet. I have tried an antiseptic cream with a numbing agent in, but it does not seem powerful enough to counter the pain if you are trying to get to a deep piece of string. Hopefully this scalpel will improve matters.

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

By the way I thought I would let you know the bird this thread started with is doing well. He (I now think his behavior indicates a male rather than female) is now walking a little and is able to defend himself much better. He is out with the others, I decided he has no major diseases other than the infected toe. His legs are sore but are obviously working better now they have had some time to repair. He was initially totally tied up and was crawling on the ground, so this is good progress. I continue to use the antibiotic cream on his feet and Enroflox daily. It is mainly the toe with the missing claw that is infected, the rest of the feet just look sore. I think the neem oil may help clear up the feet a little as their could be some fungal infection on the scabs.

Can anyone help with a mad pigeon, or a pigeon slowly going mad lol. Gayser, a PMV pigeon from last winter who never learnt to fly again. You can see him looking at things in a strange way because he does not seem to have got over the side effects of the PMV. The thing is recently he has become aggressive, and I think it is a problem of his own making. He is an older pigeon, and because he does not fly much he is bigger and strength wise is the dominant pigeon. He tries to mate with Gerty his mate but cannot get on her back properly. I even saw poor old Gerty get on his back the other day, I think she is getting fed up of laying infertile eggs. Anyway, from first lite until the end of the day he chases the other pigeons around the room, he cannot fly though so they easily escape him, and I sometimes wonder if they are teasing him by landing near him and flying away when he chases them. The thing is this goes on all day, all I hear is his growl until he falls asleep. He is driving himself mad. I feel sorry for him but I don't know what I can do to try to encourage him to do other things.
The pigeons do seem to fight a lot, although I would not say I am overcrowded. I have taken in a couple of new ones lately. I don't know. If the council had not started picking on me I would have had the extension cage built in the porch to the garden and they would have had the option to go out in the day. Anyone have any suggestions?

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Just another little thing I have noticed, the bird with the sting injury, it looks like his feet are being held up a bit by an overgrown claw. I think where his feet were bound up for so long his claws may have overgrown.
I know cutting pigeon claws is very difficult, but this fella may need it. Is there any advice on claw cutting anywhere?

Thank you,
Brian.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

My advice is dont.
They should wear down naturally on rocks/bricks/stone etc that they land/wander about on.
Like their beaks, if you start trimming, they tend to grow faster & will continually need trimming, which you cannot do once they are released.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Sounds like the string pigeon is doing better. If he cannot walk because of the long nails, you can use baby clippers to gently clip a little of the nail away, but don't go near the quick (I'm sure you realize he has suffered enough) . You can file down the rest. Then allow him to naturally wear them down.

i'm so sorry to hear about the PMV, is it residual effects or something else going on? Is he suffering and not having any quality of life?

it would be good for all your birds to get sun, it is essential to their health. 

Thank you for caring for these needy birds.*


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I think I did not make myself very clear lol. Its the PMV pigeon that now, despite being grounded, is chasing the other pigeons about all the time. I wonder if he is frustrated because he cannot fly? The other pigeons seem to upset him, and every time they land on the floor or one of the lower objects, he tries to chase them, but they just take off and he cannot follow. I think this might have something to do with him going on and on and on lol.

The baby scissors is a good idea, but I think Quazar may be right and I should give it some time to see if he naturally wears his claws down. He is making progress, he now spends more time on his legs, but they still look sore and one of the toes is infected and missing a claw. I am pleased with how he is progressing though.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Brian,

I've used a knife-sharpening tool (an aluminum handle/holder which grips a reversible, round diamond-dust file). The one I use has a groove for sharpening fish hooks and darts. I hold the pigeon foot so one claw projects, and stroke the file under the point tip of the claw. 

You can also use a fingernail file. Some have grooves for filing the edge of the nail.

I've filed the claws only on young rescued and hand-raised squeakers who had new, fast growing claws which did not have the opportunity to wear down because of the carpet they walked on. They would trip on the carpet. t took only a few strokes per claw with the diamond-dust hone. It was very easy to control how much to file, and it was very quick. Once they were released, their claws and beaks wore down like normal street pigeons on he brick ledges and cobblestones. 

Larry


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I've never checked a pigeons beak to see if it was overgrown, I did not know it was a potential problem. Because I don't have any other pigeon people around me, I don't have anyone to exchange notes with and learn from. Consequently I am missing some bits of information that others may consider basic. I hope to volunteer in some of the local refuges when I am feeling stronger, I will be able to ask lots of questions there.

The tool you describe to wear down the claws sounds good, you sound like you have a lot of these little tools? I will look on the internet for some kind of emery board as this sounds like a safer way to shorten the claw, rather than risk snipping a bit off.

Thank you,
Brian.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> I think I did not make myself very clear lol. Its the PMV pigeon that now, despite being grounded, is chasing the other pigeons about all the time. I wonder if he is frustrated because he cannot fly? The other pigeons seem to upset him, and every time they land on the floor or one of the lower objects, he tries to chase them, but they just take off and he cannot follow. I think this might have something to do with him going on and on and on lol..


How long have you had Gayser ?
His actions and manerisms are exactly how my rescue Charlie behaves.
He cant fly either, but continually seems to challenge the other birds to come down to him then chases them away to let them know its his territory & he is the boss. The only one he doesnt chase is Freckle, but if Freckle gets too close Bouncer then intervenes, chases her away & then I have to step in & separate Charlie & Bouncer lol.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes thats exactly the same as Gayser, he has been with me since last winter when I found him outside unable to pick up food. Its very annoying that he is so assiduous in his chasing of any pigeon that lands on the floor because the pigeon with the bad feet lands on the floor in the morning to try and feed. Its sore for this other pigeon to land on certain things, so I have been trying to think of ways I can discourage Gayser from this type of behavior. He has a mate, so I don't understand what he is so upset with the others for. He seems to have given up on trying to fly, so he is left with chasing any bird that lands? What can I do? He is a nice bird and is one of the most tame towards me, he understands that I am not going to hurt him and allows me to sit right next to him, so I like his company. I just wish I could stop this continuous growling and chasing.

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have named the string injury bird *****, simply because he is much darker than all the others. He seems to have an almost complete dark coat. He is doing better each day, he is protecting himself better from the bullying attempts of others and he is even starting to chase one of the females which pleased me as the only eligible male up till now has been Baby. The poor female would let Baby mate with her and hope to go in the box to lay an egg, and Baby would chase her away. I hope she will set up with ***** as he gets better(I have plenty of dummy eggs). ***** is standing on his legs much more now and they look less swollen. The infected toe is taking a while to clean up but I continue to put antibiotic cream on it and Enroflox orally. He is eating and I am sure he is drinking although I have not seen him do it yet. I hope the neem oil will arrive soon and I can rub a little of that in.
If I see any adverse reactions as Dima suggests then I will stop using it, but the description of the oil makes it sound like it would be great for this type of injury, where there is a lot of scab that may have a fungus infection. It also helps, as mentioned, with removing any remaining twine or thread.

I am pleased to see his progress, I am glad he is over the worst of the pain.

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

***** continues to chase one of the females, but I think some of his walking problems are caused by 2 or 3 of his toes having long nails. I am going to try and get an emery board and file them down a little. I will be careful not to do too much in one go. I think it will help him start walking better again.

The enroflox has given him slight diarrhea, but I do not think it is giving him a serious problem. My 5kg bag of hemp arrived before my sack of normal feed, so I am letting them all gorge themselves on hemp for a couple of days lol.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I know I have not kept this thread to one subject, but for anyone that is interested, *****'s bad toe has gone down a lot and just has hard skin around it now. I will continue Enroflox and Fucidic acid cream for a couple more days to be sure the infection is gone, but I believe his feet are healing nicely now. He is showing normal mating interest in one of the females, but he goes to rest frequently so his feet must still be a little sore.
All in all I think he has done brilliantly considering how bad the initial swelling and the depth of the string cuts were. Lets hope he goes on to a full recovery.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

You're doing a good job with your feral friends.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Unfortunately I had another look at *****'s infected toe, and although the infection now looks like it is almost gone, the toe has gone very dark in the space of a day. I now think this toe may be lost as it looks like it has died. Maybe it was only keeping its colour because it has yellow puss in it. I am worried that I might knock it off whilst applying the neem oil.
As I said above the neem oil has arrived now and I applied it for the first time today. It has a very strong onion type smell and I am also trying to think of a better way to apply it. If you pour a little on your hand it tends to fall through your fingers, and you end up twisting your hand trying to wipe the oil on the foot. I am a little concerned about knocking the toe that has gone black as well. Does anyone have any useful advice about ways to apply the neem oil?

Thank you,
Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I just thought I would give an update about the pigeon this link was originally started about, I have called him ***** as he is the darkest pigeon I have.

His feet and legs look like they are healing, but slowly. I have put down some more bricks to help him wear down his nails naturally. The toe that was very infected has now turned a sort of dirty white and looks like it is going to fall off. Also the scars are quite thick although they do look like they are healing. One of the toes on one of the feet has already fallen, and he is going to lose another on that foot, but that leaves him 2 including the 'thumb', so he should still be able to use it.
I feel sorry for him because he started to set up with one of the females, but even though the other males have their own females and even eggs, they still seem to bully him and try to take his female. He is not able to fight properly although he does try and is plucky, but sometimes he seems to go and sit on his own like he has given up.
I wish there was more I could do to help him heal faster. I painted his feet in neem oil again this morning and I hope this helps. It looks like I have got all the string off, but you can never be sure, especially when the hard scabs cover where the string would be if it were left behind. I actually think I got it all(I hope) but because the blood supply was cut off so badly for so long it is taking a long time for his legs and feet to heal. I don't want to put him in a cage, although I understand this would probably help him heal better, but they look so sad looking out at the other pigeons free to go where they want. I think he will manage, I just think it takes a long time for this type of injury to heal. If anyone has any good ideas about how I can help this fellow heal faster I would be most grateful.

Thank you,
Brian.

P.s. he is also molting at the moment, and looks a bit like a vulture where his neck feathers are missing some. Maybe this is running him down. I have just got some new sea grit that is supposed to have all the micro nutrients they need for molting, and they get it in the water as well, so I hope this is enough to help him molt ok.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

His toe looking like white dirty will fall. I am glad you got rid of the strings. Sometimes even the strings come off the area were he was tied could for callus, which it act just as a string; even if you remove it by soaking it, it will come back again. I had this experience with my rescued pigeon. After one year the callus formed. Every time i would see him limping i would remove the callus, but i gave up. In less than 2 weeks he lost his toe. I hope this will not be the case with *****. Maybe the neem oil will soften the cut area so well that new skin will grow.
Molting is normal, it's the season for molting. Keep him with vit in water. I am sure you are taking good care of him and he will be fine.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

What you say about calluses is something I have heard before Dima, maybe from you. Some of the scars look very hard now, and it may do them some good if I give them a painting in Neem oil every few days. If he lost a third toe on the bad foot it would be very hard to walk with it. 

I saw a very sweet moment between ***** and 'hop-a-long' the female he is pairing with, she was grooming him up on the bar. Just the two of them grooming each other and ***** looked like he was enjoying it. Maybe they are getting on better than I thought. I hope so after all his suffering, it took me far too long to catch him. I wish I had a faster hand to catch these wounded birds before they get so bad.

Thank you Dima,
Brian.


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