# squeaker sick



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, this is one of the 2 squeakers i'm holding onto until the spring, i dont know whether it was the one that threw up plastic, or if it's the other one that just couldnt fly for whatever reason and is fine after some R&R..
this guy has some white fluid in nose, and the nostrils have clogged up a bit, and he's not eating, i dont know when he stopped eating, but i noticed him getting thin a week or so ago, then noticed the nostrils a few days ago, i started tube feeding, and he has thrown it up a few times. I put him alone as the other squeaker started to beat him up. He shakes a lot, maybe from me being there, i dont know.
What could this be? What can i do?


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I don't have any advice Moxie - just wanted to send along some positive vibes wishing the little one gets well soon. Hopefully someone with knowledge will be along soon.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Moxie, 



What have his recent poops/urates been like?


If he was dehydrated, best of course to get him re-hydrated.


Then move to thin formulas mixed with ACV-Water, and or also to encourage him to drink, offering tepid Water or Electrolytes.


White stuff might be from throw up...

Throwing up is usually either a Candida or Yeast problem in the Crop, or, irritations from a foreign object in the Crop, or having eaten something 'bad' anyway...something spoiled or inappropriate as food.

Keep him definitely warm, in a draped cage even.


The one who threw up the 'plastic' - what kind of plastic was it?



Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Metronidazole and a Tetracycline.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Pidgey, what is tetracycline? What are some of the names for it also?
Will that take care of any yeast infection?
Phil, i posted a thread abouit the plastic, it was a while ago though, a few months ago. It was plastic like from a sandwhich baggie, ant it was knotted up on one side. It was about 2 inches long, and when balled up it was about the size and width of a nickel. I think this is the same bird, but i cannot be sure, the 2 squeakers look exactly the same! But the plastic incedent was a few months ago, could there be more, and would it affetc him 2-3 months later? Seems like if there was anything left, it would of affected him then, not now?
The poops, real watery, has had a lot of water coming out, mixed with dark forest green poops with white urates. The poop comes out in like, thread form, like a thin rope instead of a pile. 
I have him on a heating pad and he LOVES that!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Moxie,
Tetracycline will not take care of yeast. It is an antibiotic. For yeast you will need nystatin ..medistatin can be purchased from the pigeon supply places.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Charis, X, 


I have managed very well using the ACV-Water for treating yeast or candida problems, but when these problems are incidental to a foreign object in the Crop ( foreign objects on which the Bacteria or other Organisms cling or make a resivior or infect Crop sides where the object is resting againt the Crop ) the foreign object will continue to make these and other problems untill it is 'out'.


I do not know how long some foreign object can remain in their Crop, but my guess is, 'indefinitely', till either they throw it up, pass it, it the problems it occasions cause the Bird's death.


Nystatin or Medistatin are both very good Medicines for clearing up Yeasts or Candida.

Oreder them from 'Jedds' or 'Foys', I forget which carrys them. Medistatin is a powder, and probably is the osre convenient of the two.


But while you are waiting for the medication to arrive, either get some small amounts of Nystatin or Medistat from a Vet, or, begin a regimen of ACV-Water.

I never had one not come out of it just fine on the ACV-Water.


Getting the Yeasts or Candida cleared up may allow the Pigeon to pass or throw up the foreign object...and, if it does not, the problems will return in a few weeks or something.

This youngster of course may have other things going on also, or ight not even have Yeast or Candida probles, or this matter I am dwelling on might not even be his problem...but just in case it is...


Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Normally, they don't get yeast infections unless something else is very wrong. Of course, that can be due to an immune system problem. It's fairly rare around here that a bird has been clinically diagnosed with a yeast infection or fungal overgrowth. We have usually treated on the suspicion rather than getting hard evidence. Also, we often treat them with Nystatin as a preventative when giving them certain antibiotics that often cause fungal overgrowths as a known side-effect. Actually, due to the feelings a lot of folks have for all antibiotics, they often get treated for that reason even when the antibiotic in question isn't known to cause that problem.

Anyhow, the Tetracycline more often used in pigeons is Doxycycline (Vibramycin) although Oxytetracycline (Terramycin) and Chlortetracycline (Aureomycin) get used from time to time. They're often used for respiratory infections. If you get a package of powder from a feedstore, you have to seal the unused portion up so that it can't get any moisture out of the air because that stuff REALLY sucks humidity and turns to paste.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Pidgey, dont they make terramycin in an eye ointment form? I think they use that at the cat shelter, and yes, i know i cant use eye ointment orally on the bird! LOL! or heck, maybe you can, i dont know.
Let me check my meds, i'll see if i have anything like that.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, there is a Terramycin ophthalmic ointment. There are also some made from any combination of Neomycin, Polymycin and Bacitracin. They're the same medications, but suspended in some greasy stuff to hold them on wherever you're wanting them to stay.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Normally, they don't get yeast infections unless something else is very wrong. Of course, that can be due to an immune system problem. It's fairly rare around here that a bird has been clinically diagnosed with a yeast infection or fungal overgrowth. We have usually treated on the suspicion rather than getting hard evidence. Also, we often treat them with Nystatin as a preventative when giving them certain antibiotics that often cause fungal overgrowths as a known side-effect. Actually, due to the feelings a lot of folks have for all antibiotics, they often get treated for that reason even when the antibiotic in question isn't known to cause that problem.
> 
> Anyhow, the Tetracycline more often used in pigeons is Doxycycline (Vibramycin) although Oxytetracycline (Terramycin) and Chlortetracycline (Aureomycin) get used from time to time. They're often used for respiratory infections. If you get a package of powder from a feedstore, you have to seal the unused portion up so that it can't get any moisture out of the air because that stuff REALLY sucks humidity and turns to paste.
> 
> Pidgey



Hi Pidgey, 



They will reliably get Candida or Yeast infections if they have a foreign object in their Crop...even if everything else had been fine and healthy up untill then.


Most of the Candida ( diagnosed enough times as such by the Vet) I have seen, was associated with chilled-starving youngsters, or, "K-T" fed youngsters in newbee's hands, or, was associated with foreign objects in the Crop, whether or not these were getting thrown up...


A Pigeon who 'may' still have some knotted thin plastic film with one 'knotted' end in the Crop, and the rest of it possibly stalled in occupying the passage through the Gizzard into the Stomach and even beyond, could very well develop a Candida or Yeast infection of the upper digestive system...and on down from there...even if they had been healthy otherwise.


So...


Phil
l v


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## *ADRIAN* (Jun 3, 2005)

cant help u here mate


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Pidgey, i dont have any of those meds, can i just use the acv water and flagyl here and see what happens?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, he's not throwing up anymore, i'm just giving ACV and flagyl, but he still has a lot of muck in nostrils, and when i press on the nostrils, white/clear fluid comes out, sometimes really thin, sometimes in more booger form. He now has a little scab where the nostrils are, either from the fluid, from something else, or from me irritating his nostrils?
what can i do? I tried to take a pic, but the scab didnt show up, it's so small


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok, he's not throwing up anymore, i'm just giving ACV and flagyl, but he still has a lot of muck in nostrils, and when i press on the nostrils, white/clear fluid comes out, sometimes really thin, sometimes in more booger form. He now has a little scab where the nostrils are, either from the fluid, from something else, or from me irritating his nostrils?
> what can i do? I tried to take a pic, but the scab didnt show up, it's so small


Well, pick his little nose for him and gently remove the "boogers". Perhaps think about starting him on Doxycycline for respiratory ??

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi "X", 



I think Doxycyeline might be a good idea also.


Quarenteen as well as possible, Cage draped, and the sides tucked under on three sides anyway...two inches of Cardboard anainst inside front bottom...this should do nicely if Cage is in same room or on same table as others, but some space around this one would be best.


Any 'repiratory' or sinus-effeting illness in Birds of course should be treated with extra hygene ( this one's Seed or Water Bowls, get Bleach Water Soaks each night, and or get rotated with his other two whle the last two soak, hands washed more than usual, like that ) and simple cautions since the possibility of contageousness or zoonitic potentials are implied.



Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i dont have Doxycyeline. What can i do until i order some, and considering this is the weekend, it will take longer.
Zoonitic disease? IS what he has transffered to humans? I try to be careful, but i fell asleep with him on my tummy last night, and woke up to little feet walking off of me. He is a cutie! 
Alright, i'm going to make a list of what i have, med wise..


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If it were THE zoonotic disease that we're all afraid of, Chlamydophila, then even Baytril would be of some use. However, if it's like Brad's Henny that time, then you would need to go with a Tetracycline. In a pinch, you can still get those from pet stores like Petsmart:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...4&cp&kw=tetracycline&origkw=tetracycline&sr=1

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i hope this is the right stuff i ordered, can someone make sure?
http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=33&SubCategoryID=1074&ProductID=2212
I got 2-3 day shipping, but it's still the weekend, so will he be ok until then? I have him on a heating pad, he wont eat or drink on own, sometimes pecks a bit on loose seeds.
So, he has a lung infection? Very contagious to other birds? I have him seperate now, but his box is close to a cage, cant help it...
Oh, pidgey, you're talking about using baytril/fish stuff if I GOT something from a bird? I'm confused...
Who is Henny?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There's one of those not too far from you:

http://petsmart.know-where.com/pets...=en&design=default&place=Boston,+MA&x=25&y=18

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Upper Respiratory: nose and head

Lower Respiratory: air sacs and actual lungs

So far, it sounds like he's got an upper respiratory. Lower respiratories get more dangerous as the bird can start open mouthed breathing to the point of gasping and their respiration rate can go up.

And, yeah, those are the right stuff although it's my general impression that tablets, though easier to dose, are often the most money for the least drug.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

so, Pidgey, you think i should use that fish stuff until i get the tabs from Jedds? Yep, thats not too far from me. 
Ok, here's a list od meds, and Pidgey, you already know some of these because YOU SENT THEM TO ME!!! Thanks! Here it is! Oh, and you think the POWDER is better then the tabs?

ciloxin .3% eye drop 2.5 ml
Spartix 10 mg
metacam 2ml
neem oil
colloidal silver
liquid calcium
albon .10ml
azithromycin 250mg
nyastatin .8 BID/14 days
Arnica
Amoxicillan 500 mg tabs
cephalexin 500mg
cipro 500mg
amoxicillan 10% powder
enrofloxyn .2 ml/kg of B.W. for 5-7 days
ivermectin (wormer)
divet
appertex 2.5 mg
Augmentin (amoxicillan + clavulanic acid) 875/125 mg
Anroxil 7.5 mg (generic baytril)
cephalexin 50 mg
flagyl 500mg and 250 mg


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I think the powders are cheaper to buy, not better. However, there's always the difficulty of dispensing them. It's easy if you have a scale that can measure down that low and harder if you don't. There are ways.

Anyhow, the dosage would be 25 mg/kg, PO, BID or 25 milligrams per kilogram of bird, Orally, Twice Daily. If we assume he's about a quarter to a third kilogram in weight, then we'd being going with 6.25 to 8.33 milligrams. So, as you can see, the 7.5 milligram pill is just about perfect.

You start getting an idea of the economics when you compare how many dollars it costs per milligram of medicine in the various package deals.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi X, 




Just suggesting an easy going general sort of simple yet practical kind of 'quarenteen' any time we have one with a Respiratory infection or Respitory symptoms...just as a prudence.


Probably whatever he has is no big deal, and, some simple precautions allow everyone else to be 'safe' just in case it were something 'serious'.


Glad to hear he is feeling good and interested in eating and so on, thats great!


Keep him stuffed..!


Phil
l v


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

he died, i just came home from a few hours of work, to grab my books for class tonight, and peeked in on him, and he was dead. I'm really mad right now, and just really sad, i dont want to go to class, but i have to. 
Poor baby, i dont even have time to bury him until later tonight...
Be back around 11pm, talk more then


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Oh Moxie..........so sorry. Don't know what to say really. You tried. What else can you do? Again..sorry.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm really sorry too Moxie. I know you really tried. I wish I had some other words of comfort for you - sending {{hugs}} and comforting thoughts though.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear about this. I know you did everything you could to help him.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm SO sorry to hear this Moxie.... I have been following your thread I know you really tried.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moxie, just want you to know I'm sorry the little one died. That is the hardest part of rehabbing.


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