# Thanksgiving Babies ..



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Marjorie and I are yet again great grandmothers today! Peep and Fantastic hatched these little beauties today:

http://www.rims.net/2006Nov21/

Their names are Squanto and Pilgrim, and they made sure that they were on time for their first Thanksgiving Day!

Just to keep the record straight .. Castor and FanFan are the grandparents. Castor and FanFan are the parents of Aspen and Chessy, and of course, FanTastic. Opal, Onyx, and Cherub are the other babies from Peep and Fantastic.

Peep is again in serious guarding and defending mode of his new little ones. He is one fierce Daddy pigeon!

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

CONGRATULATIONS!!! Your brand new grandfids are adorable and their names are perfectly appropriate!!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Congratulations!!!!
Aren't they darlings.
Have fun watching them grow.

Reti


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Congratulations on your new grandfids! Nothing makes the holidays special like having family around, your family has grown so will your joy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Some early holiday blessings bestowed on you, Terry. I know you'll enjoy watching them grow.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Now that's what I call THANKSGIVING!!

CONGRATULATIONS!

(I certainly DON'T have to post a pic reminder update!)


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Congratulations on the new grandfids!  

What a couple of cuties.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, they are gracing my desktop as we speak. You know Fantastic is one of my favorite birds. Can't wait to see these sweet babies grow up.


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## stephie (May 17, 2006)

Oh my gosh, they are TOO cute, what a lot to be thankful for! And I love their names! Congratulations to the proud parents & grandparents!


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Congradulations! They sure are sweet!

Feather


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Terry, very cute and I adore the names!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Terry,

Congratulations to you and Marjorie.

They're just too adorable.

Linda


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks again, everyone. Babies are doing well, and poor Peeps is in his frenzied and protective Daddy mode. He is such a good Daddy and Husbird (husband).

Terry


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

http://www.hallmark.com/ECardWeb/ECV.jsp?a=0992632081559M142900996Y  don't know how long the link will work. cogradulations on the new babies p.s. Please don't mail to the address seen, it is just a fill in for the site to work.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cute site. It's playing at our IMAX theater and I can't wait to see it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Cute card! Thanks!

Terry


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Cute babies. Great pic of the two them together. You could frame that pic.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

How cute! Congratulations!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks again, folks. Babies are doing fine today. I wanted to get pictures on Thanksgiving Day but had to run the hawk off too many times .. that in addition to the "challenge" of having some type of Thanksgiving dinner with only a microwave to work with sort of occupied my day. Maybe tomorrow.

Terry

PS: For those that thought the microwave comment to be strange .. we have remodeled our kitchen .. started with a total demolition on October 16, and I still don't have a functional kitchen as of today. I've had a refrigerator and a microwave .. that's it. I'm tired, it's getting old, and these GUYS better have this kitchen done in the next couple of days OR .. perish the thought


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, you may make me change my mind about remodeling our kitchen. We planned to do it last spring, then got in all the babies and kept putting it off. May try for next spring. But, I'll bet yours will look great when its finished.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Terry, you may make me change my mind about remodeling our kitchen. We planned to do it last spring, then got in all the babies and kept putting it off. May try for next spring. But, I'll bet yours will look great when its finished.


It is beautiful, but I'm more than ready to settle for just functional again  

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Terry,

I'm so sorry to hear your kitchen isn't finished yet. That must be sheer torture not having use of a full kitchen, that is the most important room in the house. I sure do hope you get this resolved soon too!

We have a fully functional kitchen, but after 20 years it ALSO needs a serious makeover.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

For anyone who is going to do a kitchen remodel, I do pity you. I guess the good news is that when it's done, you will be thrilled. Our house was built in the mid 1960's, and I was still using the original countertop stove and built in oven. Neither worked particularly well 20+ years ago when we bought the house, and I just got used to the little quirks they had and managed just fine over the years. I will probably have to learn to cook all over again with the fancy smancy new stove and oven (which has convection .. whoohoo!). The fridge gave out during the summer, and it was really a shock to suddenly have a well working fridge, dependable icemaker, and really cold temps. I can't complain about the old refrigerator, though. It served us well for about 23 years with nary a problem right up to the end when it just couldn't maintain the cold anymore.

Ok .. enough of this off topic. To get it somewhat back on topic, I do have a small fridge in the garage that is for any food or meds that the critters need to have kept refrigerated. That one works just fine.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> ...I do have a small fridge in the garage that is for any food or meds that the critters need to have kept refrigerated. That one works just fine.
> 
> Terry


So glad you are able to keep your perspective during this long drawn out remodel! I know you are inventive enough to have enjoyed the challenge, at least a little!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Terry,

One last comment,

You will LOVE the convection oven, it cooks in half the time, but does it WELL, not like a microwave, but oven.  

Speaking of refrigerators....Our old fridge died, several years ago, on a Christmas eve afternoon...talk about bad timing, it was a nightmare  , but we went and bought one that afternoon and brought it home in the back of our truck. 

BACK ON TOPIC:

How are the grand darlings today?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Functioning kitchen preferred over beautiful kitchen*

Terry,

What a fantastic picture of baby pigeons *Squanto* and *Pilgrim*! I downloaded it right away (and included appropriate metadata). Thanks a lot.

We have had a Sharp inverter microwave/combi oven (with hot air convection, grill, rotisserie -- which we no longer use after turning vegetarian)) since 1990, and it worked great until a year or so ago (microwave tube no longer outputs rated 1000 Watts -- probably because of several times we failed to have sufficient liquid for the microwaves to work on). Made great home-made pizzas.

The hot air convection part is great. 

Ironic: I stopped eating meat and fish after my "close encounters" with *Pidgiepoo*. Now that I no longer eat and take apart chicken, I have to "remember" or "imagine" bird anatomy. *(How could I care so little as to tear apart the flesh and bones of one bird while trying to care for the flesh and bones of another living bird I care so much for?)* 

Enjoy your new kitchen!

(Of course, if a person can't cook, I suppose a kitchen, old and ugly, or brand spanking new and clean, or even no kitchen at all, are all the same, and any well-wishes would be wasted. But I assume you are a good cook, natch!).

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*The most important room in the house*

Treesa,

I was going to quibble with you about the kitchen being the most important room in the house. I thought, when you need to go sometimes you REALLY NEED TO GO, and you feel that urgency more and have much stronger feelings about the room with the toilet than you do about the room with the cooking stuff. 

But, since I don't have the urge right now, I had time to consider.

Without the kitchen, we wouldnt need the toilet or bathroom. 

The kitchen is the most expensive room in the normal house, followed in cost by the bathroom.

And I suppose every kitchen contains a pot to p*ss in.

So, I concede your point.

And to keep this on topic, I often ponder on how pigeons (and other birds) manage to do without so much of what we find useful or necessary. We have internet and computers. Very useful and interesting. And thanks to these, and refrigerators and heaters and stoves etc., we have saved the lives of many pigeons. Without internet and the web, I would not have even considered rescuing some of the pigeons I have thought I can help. And without cars and transportation and language and science and medicine and veterinarians, many pigeons would be left uncared for in their distress.

What I find interesting, is that if we had none of these things, if the world were a totally different place, perhaps wthout humans, how many of these pigeons would have otherwise (-- in other ways) come to their critical situations? 

How many of the communicable diseases they are afflicted with, which they are discredited with carrying, stem from the activities of humans? Supposedly avian flu arises in situations caused by human handlers. 

Sometimes I am tempted to think, Little Pidgey, it's lucky for you that I have a feeding syringe, a heating pad, a stove-top for warming our food, places where I can buy seed and medicines, a veterinarian's advice, and advice from people on the internet all over the world who are concerned about *you*. 

Overall, they might have been better off without all our technology. Interesting to consider, when we think of where to go from here. 

Larry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Squanto and Pilgrim are doing well. I'll try to get some new pictures today. They are 5 days old and have already grown so much. Looks like it is going rain like crazy in a short while, so I will have to be sure Peep and FanTastic are keeping the babies warm and dry.

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Squanto and Pilgrim are doing well. I'll try to get some new pictures today. They are 5 days old and have already grown so much. *Looks like it is going rain like crazy in a short while*, so I will have to be sure Peep and FanTastic are keeping the babies warm and dry.
> 
> Terry



Rain? RAIN?? What's that??? Could you send US some, PLEASE??

Looking forward to updates of Squanto and Pilgrim (those names STILL make me smile!)


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Squanto and Pilgrim are one week old today: http://www.rims.net/2006Nov27/

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

OMG, how cute they are.  Love their hair do.
The duck pics are awsome.
Thanks for sharing.

Reti


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Beautiful babies!! Congrats on those two!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Squanto and Pilgrim are one week old today: http://www.rims.net/2006Nov27/
> 
> Terry


What a couple of doll babies Terry. Sooo cute.  

Love your other pictures as well.  

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, they're really growing up fast. I still have their baby picture on my desktop. Love the Mr. Flapper "lookalike" - what a great personality. 

Any hints on how to get the videos to play?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Terry, they're really growing up fast. I still have their baby picture on my desktop. Love the Mr. Flapper "lookalike" - what a great personality.
> 
> Any hints on how to get the videos to play?



Maggie, you just have to wait............LOL. I wondered the same thing. Just may take a few minutes for them to load. 

PS: try clicking the stop button and then the play button. that might work.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks everyone for having a look and for enjoying my great grandbabies and all my other babies at the park.

It does take a little bit for the videos to load. I tried to keep these all small enough so they will start fairly quickly. If you position your mouse pointer over the "screen" for the video, you should see a hint to click to activate the control. Just click on the screen, and that should get the videos to start.

Terry


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

What a couple of cute litte babies Oooh and I know someone whose been playing with frames on his PSP programme  Adds a little panache to those adorable pictures.

Michelle


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

arnieismybaby said:


> What a couple of cute litte babies Oooh and I know someone whose been playing with frames on his PSP programme  Adds a little panache to those adorable pictures.
> 
> Michelle


Thanks, Michelle .. yes .. guilty as charged regarding the PSP frames. I've been meaning to search around and see if there are more available as I've kinda run the existing ones into the ground.

Terry


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> Thanks, Michelle .. yes .. guilty as charged regarding the PSP frames. I've been meaning to search around and see if there are more available as I've kinda run the existing ones into the ground.
> 
> Terry


I have designed a few picture frames (10) if I can work out how to save them and send them to you without the layers merging (currently saved as .psp and saving as jpeg/bmp/gif keeps merging the layers, which means the picture frame will not work ) images, I'll let you know, then I'll try and send them to you.

Michelle


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

arnieismybaby said:


> I have designed a few picture frames (10) if I can work out how to save them and send them to you without the layers merging (currently saved as .psp and saving as jpeg/bmp/gif keeps merging the layers, which means the picture frame will not work ) images, I'll let you know, then I'll try and send them to you.
> 
> Michelle


Thanks, Michelle. If it works, then great, and if not, it's not a big deal .. you all will just have to keep looking at the same old ones  I did do a quick read through a tutorial on making a custom frame .. way beyond my PSP abilities and understanding at this point.

Terry


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi Terry,

Sorry I am late to this post! Congratulations! You have two gorgeous little babies there. 

Lindi


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Rooster2312 said:


> Hi Terry,
> 
> Sorry I am late to this post! Congratulations! You have two gorgeous little babies there.
> 
> Lindi


Thanks, Lindi! They are growing like weeds!

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*13 Days Old Now ..*

http://www.rims.net/2006Dec03

Terry


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

TAWhatley said:


> They are growing like weeds!
> Terry


Boy, I'll say! Less than two weeks old and look at them! 

Just beautiful!

Linda


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Both are so cute! Pilgrim looks like he's growing some flashy white feathers. Squanto seems more relaxed about the photo shoot. I'm guessing Squanto's a hen.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Both are so cute! Pilgrim looks like he's growing some flashy white feathers. Squanto seems more relaxed about the photo shoot. I'm guessing Squanto's a hen.



So, Terry, SquantA if a hen???  

They are soooo cute! LOVE the white feathers coming in. They are both going to be handsome adults!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Lin, Terri, and Shi for having a look and posting. Shi, I don't know but don't think Native American language works like Spanish and some other languages. I think Squanto is short for Tisquantum, which was the real name of the Native American man who assisted the Pilgrims. BUT I would be happy to go with Squanta if that little one is a girl .. heck .. I get the name wrong half of the time anyway and call him/her Shanto instead of Squanto .. I think I'm losin' it ..

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, if they were any cuter I couldn't stand it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Very sad news ..*

I was totally gutted to find Squanto dead this morning. Both babies had empty crops this morning, and poor little Squanto was dead. I have removed Pilgrim and am hand feeding for the time being. Pilgrim seemed warm enough, so I don't think the cold night had anything to do with Squanto's passing.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, I am so very, very sorry.

I went back and looked at the pictures again. That baby looked so healthy, alert and fit that I would never have dreamed he would pass away. I know it hurts.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Oh Terry, I am so sorry about Squanto....such a sad shock.

Linda


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

OMG...I'm SO sorry to hear Squanto died. What a shock that must have been for you.

Sending a BIG hug your way.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Terry, I'm so sorry for the loss of little Squanto. They looked so pretty and healthy, too. You kind of expect it when a chick isn't doing well, but it's a real blow to find one dead that looked good the day before--I know because it's happened to me. I hope Pilgrim will be okay.


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Terry, 

I am so shocked to hear about poor Squanto. That is so very sad and unexpected.

Comforting hugs,

Lindi


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I had to go back and do a double take!

SHOCKED is hardly the word! Terry, I am just devastated! They were doing so well, which made my reaction even worse!

I know you are just heartbroken! We are all so sorry!

Even while shedding tears, I hope that my HUGE WARM COMFORTING HUGS WILL HELP!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terry, 

I'm late posting in this thread too but have been looking at the updated pictures as they come. Squanto and Pilgrim are two adorable squabs and very unique looking as far as your other fantail babies go. They are quite dark in the head area and their beaks are not uniform in colour. I'm sure that these two will grow into beautiful birds as the others have turned out. 

Love the names, and the timing of them coming into the world is a really neat thing

Glad to see them growing so fast and doing so well!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks everyone. I have racked my brain to try and figure out what could have happened with Squanto but to no avail. I have to just accept that this was meant to be and continue on by trying to assure that Pilgrim will be OK. 

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

What a shock!!! It must have been difficult to find one of your babies dead. I am so sorry for your loss of this sweet little one. Sure hope Pilgrim continues to thrive!

Thanks, Terri. Yes, it was a shock, and it hurts a bit more when it is one of your special pets. That old song called Big Girls Don't Cry did NOT apply here this morning.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Oh Terry...I feel like such a fool & I'm sorry to post what I did at just the wrong time! I didn't read all the responses further down today and never imagined that just a few posts down, would be yours announcing his passing 

This is quite a shock and seeing how well they were both doing. I hope that Pilgrim will continue to thrive.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Oh Terry...I feel like such a fool & I'm sorry to post what I did at just the wrong time! I didn't read all the responses further down today and never imagined that just a few posts down, would be yours announcing his passing
> 
> This is quite a shock and seeing how well they were both doing. I hope that Pilgrim will continue to thrive.


Thanks, Brad. I knew you hadn't seen the sad news. No need to feel bad about posting your good wishes for the babies. I just wish both of them were still here to have the benefit of them.

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terry, I'm so sorry to hear about Squanto, such a heartbreaking loss. Hoping
Pilgrim continues to do well and helps take the sting of this loss away for you.

fp


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*The passing of Squanto*

Terry,

I'm so sorry to read the news about *Squanto*'s passing. When they get that old, around two weeks, you (or, I) think they are through the most dangerous part. 

How much did each one weigh? They appeared to be going neck and neck in weight. 

The first baby pigeon chick I lost, *Chocolate*, weighed 45-50 grams, less than two ounces, as opposed to the 70-80 grams or two ounces if I recall correctly of *Vanilla* (for white-tipped beak, later renamed *Pidgiepoo*). I rescued both at 4 or 5 or 8 days of age on April 30, 2004, and Chocolate (dark-tipped beak) died on Thursday, May 13, 2004, 13 days later.

(Don't know why I remember these details. I guess for some reason they seem important. Maybe it is because this was all new, a first, for me).

I thought maybe Chocolate suffered from sour crop, but will never really know for sure. It was the only think I could grab hold of at the time as the simplest and most plausible explanation. But Squanto's death shows it could have been something else entirely (which I kind of knew in the back of my mind), because with all your experience you would probably catch the more obvious and more-easily-controlled threats in time. 

I suppose what I am driving at is that the larger and heavier chick of two nest-mates is assumed to be healthy, the smaller chick will be suspected of not thriving and perhaps will be watched more closely. But you didn't have such indicators as a weight difference in this case. 

None of all this thinking and speculation makes it any easier for you. I guess I use this as a means of distraction sometimes in such cases.

My pigeon *Wieteke* seems to be doing okay. He was eager to be out yesterday several times. He had been in, staking out nesting territory, but I needed to observe him. Yesteday he was waiting at the flower box with his feral mate *Mamieke*, wanting to both come in and continue where they had left off in August when they were evicted while I was in the U.S. I sat at the window and watched them. I tried to toss him gently in the direction of the church where he sleeps in one of two rose windows (out of the weather, with 6-8 other pigeons), but he would not o in the direction I wanted. He helicoptered to the top of the window. I repeated the process five or six times. It was getting dar, and Mamieke gave up and flew to the windows (I can see them in leaf-less winter, twenty to thirty meters away) at 16:47, and Wieteke followed her at 16:48. He may have gotten a lower and therefore lower-status perch as a late-comer. The windows directly across the street are being assessed and contested as future nesting sites, and I think he is undergoing stress from the process. I wish I could provide better for him. He was here early at 8:30 and is here now at 10:40 for some seed. I may continue with some anti-worm on his food. His poops are excellent, and his weight early Sunday 341 grams, early Monday 342 grams, and now 352 grams (after earlier seed here, and on the street foraging).

I hope your little *Pilgrim* continues to thrive. I guess he is a solitary Pilgrim, on his own journey now. (Looked it up, again: pilgrim, a person on a journey to a sacred place for religious reasons. I suppose your re-hab place would qualiy as a sacred place. An interesting way to look at it. If a hospital, a hospice, a re-habber's place, aren't sacred places, what is? (besides one's soul).

Best regards, 

Larry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

So sorry to hear about the baby .........I know the "suprise" deaths are REALLY hard to take. I'm sure that little Pilgrim will be ok since you'll be caring for him............


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

On Terry, you must be heartbroken. I am so sorry.
Best of luck with Pilgrim. He will be fine in your care.

Reti


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## stephie (May 17, 2006)

Terry, I'm so sorry about poor little Squanto. How devastating for you, and shocking, too--she looked so healthy. How very sad. Sending big hugs to you, and snuggles & kisses to Pilgrim.

Stephie


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*I Think I Now Know Why ..*

Ohhhhh .. so much sadness around here of late. I found Peep, father of Squanto, dead this morning. Though this might be just coincidence, I suspect that Peep was ill with something and passed it to little Squanto. No visible signs of illness or injury with either Peep or Squanto, and Peep was fine last evening when I made my final check of the birds. 

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oh Terry, that is heartbreaking. Beautiful Peeps. How is Fantastic doing and is she showing any symptoms? You know, our Simon and Ringo went so fast this fall that I don't know if anything we gave them would have helped but the pathologist and our vet did advise treating all the birds in the aviary with Baytril for 7 days and we had no more deaths. I am still scared to go out there in the mornings for fear something else is going on.

I am so, so sorry.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Oh, no, Terry, I'm sooo sorry about Peeps. This is really just too much with all
you have going on right now. Just very sorry to hear the news.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Oh, Terry...I'm so sorry to hear about Peeps. I know you must be feeling quite down in the dumps.

I hope everyone else is well.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks, Treesa, Maggie and FP. I have been debating whether or not to put FanTastic and Cherub through a course of antibiotic. One minute it seems the right thing to do and the next minute not such a good idea. Both FanTastic and Cherub appear to be perfectly healthy, but then, so did Squanto and Peep. I will most likely do the antibiotic treatment if for no other reason than peace of mind.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh no, Terry, what a terrible shock. 
I am so sorry. 
Give them antibiotic, just to be on the safe side.

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Terry, 

I'm so sad for you over this...this is sheer heartbreak and a tragedy I can't advise or suggest anything to you, that you wouldn't already be well aware of. I couldn't ever handle the deaths you and others do, I will NEVER know how you cope and continue on, especially when the birds that die are dear pets 


Hugs,


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Oh Terry, I don't know what to say....another suckerpunch....just terrible.

I'm so, so sorry.

Linda


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Terry, this is awful news! Peeps was so beautiful. What could have killed them so fast? And you are an experienced rehabber and pigeon owner, so it's not like you don't recognize the signs of illness. If it were me, I'd put them on Baytril just to be on the safe side. I don't like to overuse antibiotics either, but in this case it seems like a good idea to treat them preventatively. 

Not to be morbid, but are you able to have a necropsy done? This is very disturbing, not to mention the tragic loss of treasured pigeons. Few things to me are worse than sudden deaths from an unknown illness, because I don't know how to fight the enemy. I hope and pray you'll get some answers.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Terry, this is awful news! Peeps was so beautiful. What could have killed them so fast? And you are an experienced rehabber and pigeon owner, so it's not like you don't recognize the signs of illness. If it were me, I'd put them on Baytril just to be on the safe side. I don't like to overuse antibiotics either, but in this case it seems like a good idea to treat them preventatively.
> 
> Not to be morbid, but are you able to have a necropsy done? This is very disturbing, not to mention the tragic loss of treasured pigeons. Few things to me are worse than sudden deaths from an unknown illness, because I don't know how to fight the enemy. I hope and pray you'll get some answers.


Terry, this is so sad! Sounds like, what I call, SDS (Sudden Death Syndrome)!

At this point, I would certainly go for a necropsy, just for peace of mind. Perhaps something can be found to prevent any future occurences!

I can only send HUGE COMFORTING HUGS and hope they help! I'm so sorry!!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I don't know what to say except I am so sorry that this has happened! Your stomach and mind must be in turmoil. I sure hope that whatever caused this is self limiting or else quickly diagnosed and treated.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm so very sorry you lost both your babies Terry  Life can be so cruel and unpredictable, I hope the rest of your flock is safe and sound with no sign of illness.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks, everyone. I did take Peep to Dr. Lee for necropsy and will hopefully hear something from him tomorrow. I'm also seriously considering the possibility that these were deaths by spider bite. We had a lot of very large spiders in the yard this year .. more than I can ever remember seeing around here. Years ago, we lost our beautiful Sheba cat to a spider bite. She was sitting on the back patio one minute waiting for her breakfast and less than three minutes later when I took her food out, she was dead. The vet could find nothing obvious and felt that a spider bite was a likely cause. She was a relatively young and healthy cat with no known problems.

Anyway, I've moved FanTastic and Cherub just in case and have started the antibioitcs for them. Little Pilgrim seems to be doing fine, but I will finish raising him/her with another little one that I got in night before last.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> *I'm also seriously considering the possibility that these were deaths by spider bite*. We had a lot of very large spiders in the yard this year .. more than I can ever remember seeing around here. Years ago, we lost our beautiful Sheba cat to a spider bite. She was sitting on the back patio one minute waiting for her breakfast and less than three minutes later when I took her food out, she was dead.
> 
> Terry



Hi Terry...that is something I would never have thought of but certainly could be the reason for some of the unexpected deaths! Don't you have black widows in your area as well? 

I don't know whether or not it would be feasible for you, but maybe putting up some mosquito netting around some of the pens might help and if spiders are a concern.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Terry...that is something I would never have thought of but certainly could be the reason for some of the unexpected deaths! Don't you have black widows in your area as well?
> 
> I don't know whether or not it would be feasible for you, but maybe putting up some mosquito netting around some of the pens might help and if spiders are a concern.



Hi Brad,

We do have black widows and also brown recluse spiders. The ones I was seeing this year were neither .. don't know what they were/are, but very big and scary looking .. I posted a picture of one a couple of months ago .. don't even know if that one is poisonous. Anyway, the mosquito netting is a good idea and certainly doable for most of the enclosures. 

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is a good possibility, Terry. How scary. 
Did you take a good look around the loft to see if there are any spiders still? 

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Terry, I just caught up your your recent sad news about Peeps and Squanto, his baby. It is just horrible and I send my condolances.

You may be right about the spider theory. We talked about this sometime in the later part of Summer. I found a small spider in my pigeon coop even with mosquito netting in place. It must have sneaked in when the door was open or squeezed in from an unsealed area I missed.I made it a point to check inside everyday and that included inspecting the supply crates I keep inside.

Now that fall is almost past us and winter a few weeks away, the netting is off and replaced with plastic sheeting. At this posting the actual temperature is 6 degrees. I do not know if spiders survive in freezing weather but I will make it a point to start inspecting inside again to play it safe.Probably something we all need to do, especially in areas of warmer climate?


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Terry, 
I am shocked and oh, so very sad to hear about the loss of your beauties. I wish my arms would reach to you. What a hug you would get. When someone here loses a loved little'un, it hurts just like it's one of my own 
Daryl


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Pilgrim Is Doing Very Well AND ..*

has taken little Alex or perhaps Alexis under his/her wing: http://www.rims.net/HPIM3285.JPG

Little Alex was rescued from an industrial park up near Pasadena where someone had dumped a bunch of domestic pigeons. Thus far I have little Alex (who has splayed legs that we're working on) and 11 adults. More will be coming as soon as the rescuer can catch them. He's an awfully nice fellow named Alex and now has a little namesake for all his kind efforts.

Thank you again everyone for your kind and caring words about the terrible loss of little Squanto and Peep. I haven't seen any spiders in the past couple of days. I suspect our cold snap has gotten them.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What a cute picture. Please give them both a kiss from me.
They are the sweetest litle things.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Okay, that has got to be the sweetest picture ever! Since you have 11 adults, do you know what breed they are? Alex/person is an outstanding person. We need more of them in the world!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TerriB said:


> Okay, that has got to be the sweetest picture ever! Since you have 11 adults, do you know what breed they are? Alex/person is an outstanding person. We need more of them in the world!


Of the 11 adults, one is an NBRC banded roller, another is also banded .. don't recall which organization off the top. The rest are nice looking birds .. one white one with muffed feet. I had two pictures of them but somehow seriously messed up and cropped the heads off ..  I will get new pics of the 11 and also new ones of the Mickaboo birds and Beth's birds in the next day or so. Today's failed efforts at picture taking are at: http://www.rims.net/2006Dec07.

Anyhow, I was so surprised that the "under the wing" picture actually got captured and turned out pretty well. Both of them were being little pigeon "squirm worms" and trying to get one another to feed the other one .. quite funny, actually until Pilgrim got a bit too rough .. see the video at the above noted link.

Alex is a businessman who also rescues dogs. He brought the 11 adults one evening and then returned the next evening with little Alex and had his elder rescued pitbull girl with him .. what a sweet, sweet old dog.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Seems like most of the Mickaboo birds are white. I wonder if they were part of a white bird release business that went bust?

Those ducks with the top knot are so adorable!

Love the ducklings, especially the Muscovy! Amazing how quickly animals learn about treat time. 

The photo shows the idealized version; the video shows the reality of sibling (nestling?) rivalry.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Terry,

I really enjoyed the adorable pic of Pilgrim and his/her new found friend, Alex/Alexis.

The ducks are really lucky to have been found by you, incidentally.....thanks for pointing out exactly what "duck soup" is.... I never really knew the exact ingredients.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, what a doll little Alex is. I'm so glad you had Pilgrim to help keep Alex warm and comfortable. It means so much to the babies to have another pal.

I especially loved the 1st picture of the Muscovy with his mouth open. What a cutie pie.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Still catching up. Terry, what a heartbreaking time you have been through! 

Cynthia


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