# another sick one



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is the worst I've ever had. This white big pigeon was brought to the clinic by a king person who found her laying on the side of the road. Seems like PMV, severe torticollis, dehydrated, extremely emaciated. It is a miracle she made it so far, but she will need another miracle to survive.
On my way home with her, actually in elevator of my building she starting leaning sideways in the box I had her. I don't think I ever acted as quickly as I did tonight, I rushed to my apartment and in less than a minute I was syringing water into her. I am still hydrating her for the past few hours. She is urinating and pooping slimy bright green. She has no reaction to her surrounding, just sleeping. Only when I give her water, with little calcium, vit B, A and C, little sugar and salt is she opening her eyes.
I will wait another hour or so and give her some dilute formula.
Forgot to mention she is also covered in green poop, probably she had a fit and rolled around in it.
We'll see if she is makes it through the night.
I am out of room to isolate the sick ones. I am keeping her now in the laundry room where I keep the canker dove, Lucky. They are in opposite ends and each in a cage, hope that is alright.

Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Reti,
So sorry to hear about this poor pij.  

Do you have her on heat?
You can only do your best when room, or lack thereof, is an issue. I would just keep them as far apart as you possibly can. 
Be sure she's properly warmed & hydrated before you give her any 'food'.

Hoping you & your little patient have as good a night as possible.
Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Cindy,
yes, I forgot to mention, she has heat. And I think she is well hydrated now. I will give her some more water now and then wait another hour before feeding. I think that is the latest I can stay up, since I am up since 5am.
Room is an issue mostly because of my cats. I had put Lucky in a cage in the living room the other night and 3 am I heard noises, I knew my cats were up to something. They were dragging the cage around and having a grand time.
So, no more birds in the living room..

But since the canker is gone, I will move Lucky's cage into the bird room on Sunday.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


I was at a regular 'chain' drug store today buying a new Tube of 'Neoeporin' and I noticed they had Glucose Tablets in rolls for like 89 Cents or something so I bought some of those...

This might be handy for the in-comeing Pigeon who needs electrolytes and some little bit of someting more for starters...so, the something-more can be some glucose in their electrolyte Water now.

Wow...well...sounds like you have done well so far with this one!

As you say, some 'thin' formula would be next in order...and if you can, maybe tomorrow consider to get some 'Black Tart Cherry Juice' concentrate in the little Bottle at a Health Food Store, and put a slug of 'that' in the formula.

Tart Black Cherries have some curious properties for aiding the wan or weary infant, the tender, the weak or infirm of any age, who one way or another are obliged to be fed formula, and I tend to use it for just such Birds.

Some Health Food Stores now also carry 'Goji Berry Juice' concentrate also in a little glass Bottle, and this too, in addition or by itself, would be a good thing to add I think, especially since it will mix easly and pass thru' the 'tube' nice as pie.

As would a BIG slug of 'Nutrical' which dissolves wonderfully also with stirring, so it too passes through a narrow tube prefectly, since it is a 'goo'...any Petsmart will have it, if you do not have some on hand already...

These things really boost them and digest easy and also keep even the 'thin' formula from loseing it's water and making the thence water-resistant 'slug' in their Crops, so dreaded of both Pigeon-Patient, and caregiver alike.


Good luck Reti..!

This one, as you know, will be a handfull for a while...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> Thank you Cindy,
> yes, I forgot to mention, she has heat. And I think she is well hydrated now. I will give her some more water now and then wait another hour before feeding. I think that is the latest I can stay up, since I am up since 5am.
> Room is an issue mostly because of my cats. I had put Lucky in a cage in the living room the other night and 3 am I heard noises, I knew my cats were up to something. They were dragging the cage around and having a grand time.
> So, no more birds in the living room..
> ...


Sounds like you have everything under control Reti.  
Let us know how things are going when you have the time post. I know your days are quite busy. 

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Cindy and Phil.
Will go to the store after work and look for the juices, need to get some pedialyte too.
This little one will be a long term care baby and I am so running out of room for the unreleasables.

TB, ******** 2 gave me a good wing slap with her broken wing the other night and his wing broke in half. My vet will amputate part of the wing today. So, there is another unreleasable baby.
I just can't turn them down when they come in. I feel they all deserve a chance.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I had to let you know before leaving to work. I am so happy to report, she made it through the night and she is up and walking. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.
Warmth, water and TLC can go a long way.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> This little one will be a long term care baby and I am so running out of room for the unreleasables.
> TB, ******** 2 gave me a good wing slap with her broken wing the other night and his wing broke in half. My vet will amputate part of the wing today. So, there is another unreleasable baby.
> I just can't turn them down when they come in. I feel they all deserve a chance.
> Reti



Hi Reti,

You certainly have your hands full!

I'm so sorry you are faced with another very sick pigeon. Does sound like you have done all you can for this big white bird for now.

OMG, I can't imagine how that must have hurt when the wing broke, but I'm sure TB2 will do well without that hanging piece of wing then, must be sort of like a hang nail....but worse, of course.

Let me know if you need anything.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> I had to let you know before leaving to work. I am so happy to report, she made it through the night and she is up and walking. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.
> Warmth, water and TLC can go a long way.
> Reti



GREAT! Your tender loving care does wonders!


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Good for you Reti  I am so glad that there are people out there willing to help out the pijjies when needed. I go and sit over a busy bridge by the river and could sit there for hours just watching these birds fly. their colors and flying in sync with each other is so beautiful.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks everyone.
Treesa thank you, so far I am ok, I'll let you know if I need anything. 
Your support means a lot and keeps me going when I feel down. I know you all do the same for those sweet birds no matter how much hard work it is.

Forgot to mention, this is not a feral pigeon. Not a homing pigeon either. She has no bands, and looks like not a young bird, she has a big red ceres, big wattle and she is very large even though emaciated. Probably another of those stupid releases of pet birds. Will get pics of her this weekend.

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Reti, 

Glad to hear she made it through the night....that is a major hurdle in itself as they often will pass during the night.

She's in good hands and will do as well as her own healing will allow now. Best wishes for this poor bird's recovery.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Well done, Reti!

It is the discarded pets that upset me the most, they must be so frightened and confused to lose all that is safe and familiar to them.

Here some heartless morons left two budgies in a cage at night, in the snow, outside a sanctuary. They didn't make it.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> I had to let you know before leaving to work.
> * *I am so happy to report, she made it through the night and she is up and walking*. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this.
> 
> ** *Warmth, water and TLC can go a long way.*
> ...


* Such a wonderful update Reti.  

** You've got that right. We can't stress enough the importance of warmth & hydration, in addition to TLC of course.  

Well done!

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ah, Reti, your cup sure runneth over these days but I always feel there is a reason. You know my best thoughts are with you and if anyone can pull this bird through it is you. Sorry to hear about TB-II.

Maggie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Reti, 

Sorry to hear about the 'final' wing slap for ******** II, feeling good enuf to wing wack, and then _ouch...._.
Sounds like your new one fell into your hands in the nick of time, good to hear that that so much improvement is already noticable.

Interestingly enough, had an accupuncturist years back who would recommend
unsweetened cherry juice for parasites. Could be the same concept as the ACV as in keeping an acidic environment to minimize problem organisms.

fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> TB, ********* 2 gave me a good wing slap with her broken wing the other night and his wing broke in half*. My vet will amputate part of the wing today. *So, there is another unreleasable baby*.
> I just can't turn them down when they come in. I feel they all deserve a chance.
> 
> Reti


I'm so sorry to hear that Reti. Poor baby.
How many non-releasables do you have? 

Cindy


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

God Bless You, Reti,

She did fall into the right hands. I feel as Maggie does...that if anyone can get her through this...that you are one of the special ones that will make it happen.

Feather


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Oye...

The ******** mention really hurt me to read...

I have had a similar thing happen once and it still sets my innards into a cringe when I think of it.

Some Wings heal well, some not-so-well, and of course some heal only to be fragile...


Someday, after I have moved, I hope to make a nice airy and multi-featured Aviary for the non-releaseables, with a warm sauna and enclosed areas and various contiguous quarters to suit their moods or interests, and their abilities to access same on foot of course.

I myself have three non-releaseables presently, all sweeties, two I have had for nearly a year now.

And, with eight probable release-able or definite releaseable others flying about free rove and full of pee and vinegar and the usual wacky antics, it is closer to the mark to note that I am living in an Aviary, than that these Winged-ones 'Live' in my little Home.

Two of these were released months ago, they had met and became Mates in here prior to their release, then...after some time of being Wild Birds again, they returned to visit inside daily, then roosting in here at night, then began a Nest on high, and now fly out of doors to gather Nest materials and bring them back in their Beaks.

How could I not let them?

Lol...

Oye...

...sigh...

Such is the ambiance..!

Anyway...

Rambley, yours,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Bless you, Reti, for helping the big white pigeon. I hope and pray that she will survive. She has the best of care.

Is she a king pigeon? Here in the Bay Area quite a few king pigeons are found abandoned. I hate to say it, but they are raised for food in some circles. I can't confirm this, but I've heard that sometimes well-meaning people see them in tiny cages being sold for food, feel sorry for them, buy them and turn them loose thinking they are doing them a favor. Of course they don't fly well because of their large size and they can't survive in the wild. It's very sad.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Birdmom4ever,
That is really sad about the big guys. Eighter way their doomed.

Phil,
You're such a big softy! So much for your releases. What bird in their right mind would want to be released?

I know how you feel about watching them gather things for their nest. They will pick something up....examine it....if it's not good enough, they throw it back down and go after another twig.

Reti,
I didn't read about ********. I will have to go back and read to find out what happened. I'm kind of afraid to.

Feather


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you all for your kind words and support.
Well, I am up to 25 unreleasables. It is getting a lot of work, so will have to find homes for some of them, the latest ones, but for now I am trying to focus on their recovery first.

Lolita, as the big white bird was named by the guy who found her, is getting better. She has moments when she even can keep her head straight. She is eager to be fed and is alert.
She weights 409gr even so emaciated. This will be the largest pigeon I've ever saw when she gains her weight back. Might be a king, hard to tell for now, cause I can't really see the shape of her body, but by the long red beak and red ceres could be a king.

Well TB2 did not have the surgery. It was easier than that. I took her out of the carrier in the clinic to show her to a coworker and she fell on the counter, the wing snapped completely. I rushed her to the treatment room and the technicians ligatured the only tendon she piece was hanging from and cut it. Simple as that, no anesthesia no extensive surgery, no bleeding and she didn't even flich. The piece was necrotic already. She is doing fine now, she ate dinner and had her Cipro and is sleeping.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Wow...

I am at a loss for words I guess..

So glad TB2 ad so easy a deal of it..!

Amazing...


Is the large white one having much for tremors and palsies?

Are they pecking at all for their Seeds yet?

Do you still suspect PPMV?

I have seen palsies sometimes from dehydration and low blood sugar fromn starvation in some new arrives...

Oye...25 unreleaseables is a whole flock of 'em...!

Thats a lotta work just in itself...even when all IS easy with them...!

Thats a lotta Beaks to feed...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yes, Phil, it is a whole lot. 
Actually one is releasable, ******** 1, and I am trying to think what to do with him. See, I don't have a flock to make a soft release and if I don't release him soon he will pair up with Jane and then I won't have the heart to separate them. So, he has to go quickly. 
Umfortunately Miami is not a place for pigeons. I've seen over the years whole flocks dissapear. They are so hated that many people/companies put out poisons on the building to get rid of them.

I am not sure Lolita has PMV, it looks so much like it. Mostly she is stargazing, but has no palsies. She is on Cipro, just in case it is Paratyphoid or bacterial meningitis. But could be viral meningitis, then only supportive care would help. Could be head trauma, blood loss. I noticed some dried blood around her vent last night. She was found on the side of the road, so being hit by a car is always a possibility.
She is not eating or drinking on her own, but it is still to soon to expect her to do that.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad to hear ******** 2 took care of the wing problem herself...... that had to be scary ,  WOW thank goodness you were in the clinic.

Sorry to hear about all the possible issues Lolita may have to deal with, did you have a fecal done or blood work on her?

I'm so sorry you have your hands so full with 25 birds, perhaps I can help.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Here some heartless morons left two budgies in a cage at night, in the snow, outside a sanctuary. They didn't make it.

Cynthia[/QUOTE]

Oh no, what were they thinking? If they were thinking at all, probably not.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Reti,
> 
> Sorry to hear about the 'final' wing slap for ******** II, feeling good enuf to wing wack, and then _ouch...._.
> Sounds like your new one fell into your hands in the nick of time, good to hear that that so much improvement is already noticable.
> ...



Wasn't the final wing slap, she is back to wing whacking me big time, with her good wing though. Seems like she hasn't learned her lesson.
But I am glad she is feeling great.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This morning I thought Lolita was well enough to have a thorough physical exam. I had to wipe her feathers with a damp warm cloth to be able to see her skin and I found some horrific wounds on her. A big scrape on her back, a swollen and bruised hip and the worst, a big blood clot around her vent.
That scared me since my first thought was internal bleeding. So, I soaked her vent in warm water and I am pretty sure it doesn't is not related to her vent, rather she has an injury between the vent and her tail feathers, which some seem broken off. I couldn't get all the clot soaked, so will attempt later when she calms down a bit again to see what is going on there.
Now I am wondering if she has PMV, or it is an injury by a predator, or hit by a car.

She is sleeping most of the time with her head on a little pillow I made out of towels. She opens her eyes when I enter the laundry room, sees it is me and goes back to sleep. Doesn't look to good for her.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Poor baby, she has been through a bad experience. Thank goodness she is safe now.

Have you put her on antibiotics Reti? The description of her wounds could match cat or dog bite. I would start her on Clavamox, with the first dose a double one.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Oye...

Well, Lolita is a lucky gal to have connected with you...!

Poor thing, who knows, but does sound like she went through hell one way or another...

Might have had either the PPMV or some order of Salmonella or Meningitis and 'then' got wacked because her reflexes were off then grounded after that for who knows how long of days...

A little pin head sized flake of plain people Aspirin might be nice for her...

Might ease some of the muscle nerve stuff...

I should have done this for little 'Columbo' but I forgot about it as something I could do! Oh....sigh...


Is her Crop seeming to be allright? digestion and Crop emptying on good order?

Poops are good? Comeing through alright?

Any 'dark' coffee grounds or dark goo in the poops suggesting blood?

Thin 'soups' augmented with lots of 'Nutrical' and Misu or Blad Cherry Juice concentrate or whatever else will likely be easiest for her for now...

Are her pupils reacting normally?

Little Columbo slept a lot too...and had kind of droopy eye lids there for a while...

"Weeks", as you know...are the measure for these one's climbing tenderly back 'up'...


Wishing her and you, my best...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Cynthia I started her on Cipro, I didn't think yesterday to get some clavamox from the clinic.
Another new symptom she has now is rattling. I looked it up and it tells me it is a sign of coryza or chlamydia. Well, I hope it is not chlamydia.
I think this baby has a few things going on. Wish I had some tetracycline too now.

Phil, the poops are alright, so I don't think there is any intestinal bleeding. Crop seems fine, digestion fine. Pupils are ok, dilate and contract depending on light. Other than the torticollis there is no other neurological sign.
I am afraid to give aspirin now, cause of the bleeding. I'd rather give her Metacam, but would prefer to hold off any not absolutely necessary meds.
I am sure Lolita went through hell.
Question, is it ok to mix the juice concentrate with the formula? I didn't find the nutrical.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


This is really odd...

I wrote a post here earlier, and your post above replys TO it, yet myh post is no where to be found...

What happenned to it I wonder?

Why is it disappeared like this?

How strange!

Anyway...

till next...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Phil, I can see your earlier post just underneath mine...no problem.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Reti,
> 
> 
> This is really odd...
> ...


All posts seem to be intact. Yours, that Reti replied to is #30.

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh!


Thank you Cinthia, Cindy, 

Somehow when I looked earlier, even on the page "2", I could not seem to find it...

Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Here is pic of Lolita.
Can anyone idendity her breed?
Unfortunately she is still doing poorly, but hanging in there. Her will to live just amazes me.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ok, now the pics are too small.
Hope you can see it.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, here's one a little bigger, anyway. Beautiful bird. We got a long roe to how on this one.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/548992885/2585476060073664377ufZRlI

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Poor little sweety, she is really a pretty one.

I just can't imagine what she has been thru. If she could just talk and tell you where it hurts...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Pidgey. That is so much better.

She is a beauty and very sweet. Oh, I so wish they could talk. It would make it so much easier for us.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I sure hope Loita pulls through! Poor baby! Almost sounds like she's fighting disease AND trama from some sort of injury (lost battle with a car?)

Healing and warms thoughts to you both. All of us will be waiting anxiously to see how she does!

BTW, you mentioned TB-II wing slapping...Squeaks did the same to me while he was healing from a badly broken wing and he used his BAD wing! His "attitude" was definitely apparent EARLY!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This is Reti's little dove that had the canker. We're trying to ascertain the extent of the damage to the actual jawbone. The dove isn't finished growing and so we can't do anything yet. Hopefully, it won't be necessary in time. Incidentally, Reti, I've looked into the anatomy and the main muscle to draw the lower jaw closed actually goes from just in front of the eye (anchored to the upper beak support structure) and goes back and downward to the true end of the jawbone which is below and to the right (yes, the right) of the eye (actually pretty near to the ear hole). It looks to me to be out of danger. The real question is how much of the main spar of the mandible is eaten into on this side. After further study after our telecon, I think that if we need to implant a support strap to take the place of the bone, it will end up being like thin, flat strip that will have to be anchored by screws through the side--two in each portion. It should be somewhat form fitted but it's going to be little more than stainless foil so it'll be a tad flexible. Like I said, I hope we won't need it. What you're going to be looking for is to run your fingernail down the hard lower edge of the lower beak to see if you feel a soft-spot or discontinuity in the structural spar where that notch is. The picture is just a tad too grainy to be able to tell.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/548992885/2079568370073664377tcveOK

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti, Pidgey...Lolita, White-Pigeon...


I do not want to get mixed up here, so...let me know if I am on track -

White Pigeon has possible PPMv? Or m-a-y-b-e some order of encephelitus, or Salmonella? and or blunt trauma?

Lolita, a young Morning Dove, has the Mouth-Jaw Canker issue...and possibly some ancillary problems from Trichomiasis elsewhere having made mischiefs...maybe also blunt trauma or secondary infections or high counts of undesireable fauna/flaura...?


The 'Nutrical' might hide well in the 'puppy' and 'kitten' supply shelves of 'petsmart', so see if you can find it next round. It is an excellent Nutritive and contains so called pre-digested nutrients and enzymes suitable for infant, young or frail Bird's sometimes delicate or compromised digestions, and is an excellent dietary supplimentation regarless of age or species. It is a 'goo' so it mixes well with anything to be tube-fed or fed to them via the hollow 'Nipple'.

The Dark or Black Cherry Juice concentrate, or similarly, the Goji Berry Juice concentrate, should mix just dandy with any formula to be fed or tube fed to a Bird of any age.

I believe these each in their overlapping ways, can be, and are, very good for them. 

Also the Black Cherry juice may be important for Calcium uptake in infants or youngsters, or at least it is felt to be, or in some cases is felt to be crucial for certain Song Birds when one is wishing to raise a wayward Baby, and one lacks the mysterious items their parents would have fed them, so, I expect it to be a good one for Pigeons or Doves also, no matter what.

One could 'Seed-Pop' small bits of plain, non-sulphite, dried Dark or Tart or Black Cherrys also, just as one may do with small bits of the Goji-Berries when that kind of proceedure is suitable for the Pigeon/Dove in question.

I would imagine that the worst that could happen is it might give them the runs if one over did it, and, if one did over do it, then one could easily have that for a reference and do a mite less next time...Lol...

"Trader Joes" sells small zip lock bags of Michigan Dried Black Cherrys which are good for this...get the Tart ones, not the 'Bings'.

These as one component of course of their diet, and not AS their diet...Lol...

Anyway, youngsters like this little Dove just m-i-g-h-t have a big advantage over most Adults, in that they are still growing and enlarging their Beaks and Mandibles and so on as they grow, which I imagine makes for a better possibility for injury or disease-erosion areas or damage or eaten-away-parts such as the little Dove has, for such areas p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y to fill in and heal up in their own way...or at least to do so to whatever extent they shall ikn any given case.


Of course, time will tell, and in that time of course, the best way well rounded Nutrition, and frequent occasions of direct Sunshine and lots of general love-things, are the de-rigeur.

Has she similar aged peers to soon gambol and nap and hang out with?



White Pigeon - 

Refresh my memory if I had it wrong, but suspected as PPMv and or blunt trauma or neurological compromise form infection of some kind...?

...direct Sunshine, all she can get...and ditto, like the Dove-lette, to have really heavily enhanced natural diet...would be my regimen.

Metronidazle might not hurt if there seems to be any ancillary illness hints or digestive compromise...

Is she eating on her own? Pecking and so on well enough to fill her Crop?

Pooping well?

She sure is gorgeous...!

Best wishes Reti...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep--you've got the two birds right. And, yep, we're hoping that some of the stuff resolves on its own. I'm including a drawing here of a pigeon's skull so that Reti can make a better comparison:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/548992885/2724241980073664377LZxzqL

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Pidgey, for posting the pic and for all the great advice you gave me.
Judging from the skull drawing, she still has enough of the bone structure left so maybe, hopefully, she will be able to eat on her own some day. She is trying to preen and today she pecked my hand, so she is trying really hard to get her beak moving.

Phil, thank you for your advice. As for Lolita, poor little thing, I don't know how that will turn out.
At some point she had started loosing weight, so I increased her feedings and she is back to where we started from.
I didn't go out yet to search for the Nutrical, but I did get from the clinic the High Power Treats from Harrison's which are given to emaciated birds and they seem to do the trick.
Lolita is not pecking at seeds or drinking on her own, when not held she is all twisted up, she cannot controll her muscles. After her first night here she was able to stand and walk a little, now she can't keep her head up for not even a second. I start thinking it more likely PMV and other things going on.
I am trying to keep her alive and hope for some improvement.
She is on Cipro, Flagyl and Itraconazole to have it all covered. Plus all the natural stuff, ACV, Vinegar, Colloidal Silver, HDHA, Neem oil, probiotics and some raw wheat germ in the formula.
When I have a bit time I hold her and sit with her in the sun. She is an adorable sweet baby and loves to cuddle.

Mr. Squeaks, TB2 hasn't learned his lesson, he whacks me with the bad wing and the good one every chance her gets. He is a "lovely" pet LOL.

Reti


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Reti,

I can hardly believe all the good things you are doing, especially with that big white bird. Poor thing. From your description it sounds as though the paralysis has advanced somewhat sinse earlier posts. I would think if trauma were involved there would have been a slight improvement over time and with lots of loving care. Must be neurological, perhaps similar to that human illness, cannot recall it's name, that seems to interfere with the neuron response's in the spinal cord. PMV does this too though doesn't it.

I imagine she might have some comfort propped upright between pillows or coiled towels. I am sure you have already thought of that though. I will send some healing thoughts your way and to your bird and hope it turns out OK for this one.

Cameron


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Reti,

When I read your first post, I got the feeling that the man who brought her into you was her previous owner. I guess it doesn't really matter now. It's just sad how easily they are disgarded. I guess that goes for all pets. It seems thats when they need their caretakers the most. 

I am just happy that you have her now!

Feather


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

Thanks for sharing the pics Pidgey.

Lucky is quite "lucky" to find you. She is so cute, I sure hope when she is fully grown there will be a better prognosis on the jaw and beak.

You have two very intensive "intensive care" patients, Reti, (Lolita & Lucky)but they will wonderful in your care.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Images I made sometime back, of a Pigeon Skull...

A Dove's Skull should be about the same...

http://community.webshots.com/album/469522890oHJDLd

There is only a small vestage if the Keritinaceous sheath of the outside 'Beak' proper remaining on the essentially Bone understructure, but too, that is the beauty of these images...they remind us well that when we say 'Beak' we really mean Bone with a very thin covering of material on it.



I wonder if a soft Sling would be a good deal for some PPMv Birds? keep them suspended in a right posture pretty much, while letting them twist or so on as they may, without so much liability...?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sorry, Feather, I guess I was not clear. The guy who brought her had found her on the side of the road and was so kind to bring her to the clinic to get her help. He didn't know what else to do. But I think she must have been somebody's pet. You don't see those big white birds in the "wild", they don't even fly good.
The cutest thing is, she gives me little kisses with her beak when I pick her up., she loves to have her head and neck preened and is happy to get attention. She is definetly not a wild bird.

Cameron, she was better the first day, after almost dying when bringing her home, then she went downhill. So, I do think it is PMV, she has all the signs.
You have a good idea with the pillows and towels, that is exactly what I've been dooing and she seems very comfortable with her head a little higher up.

Thanks Treesa, Lucky the Dove is not of the hook yet, I still feel an obstruction in her throat when feeding her. I hope it won't cause any permanent damage, I've seen it before, but she is doing good so far, even flying and being active.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have a wonderful update on Lolita, the big, white pigeon.
Yesterday when I entered her room she stood up tall, looking around and getting all excited to see me and she was not twisting at all. That lasted ony a few minutes then her head went back into stargazing, but I see it as a great progress since for the past week she wasn't able to stand or keep her head up not even for a second.
Last evening, while cleaning her area she started trying to preen. 
So, definately she is doing better.
That goes only to show you that even the worst cases of PMV can improve and hopefully recover and lead a happy life.

Unfortunately the little dove with the damaged beak is not doing good. I have no idea why, she is not gaining any weight and the obstruction in her throat is getting worse. She is almost two weeks on the Flagyl now and I added Spartrix back to her regimen.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

I'm truly happy to hear Lolita is showing signs that she is improving. All your hard work is paying off. You are not only a taking good care of her physical needs but her psychological needs. She loves you and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

I'm sorry to hear the dove is not doing well, I will send some prayers out for the little one.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Great news about Lolita, Reti! I'm sorry the little dove is having such a rough time of it. Hopefully the Spartrix will turn the tide. Do you have any other canker meds just in case?

Terry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Reti, that's great news about Lolita! It sounds as though she has come a long way. I do hope the little dove will improve. That poor baby has been through so much.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you.
Terry, no, I don't have another canker medication other than the Flagyl and the Spartrix. My vet suggested to add Clavamox, I don't know what for, but...
Well, one good thing, this evening I didn't feel any obstruction when I fed her. Hope the Spartrix will do the tric.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Reti .. that's really good news if the obstruction is gone or has gotten smaller. I don't know what the Clavamox would be for either. Perhaps someone else on the board will know.

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't know what the Clavamox w/be for unless the vet is trying to cover all bases, feeling that perhaps the canker is out of control due to an unnoticed puncture wound or the like, but definitely will not help directly w/canker. Are you able to get any other canker meds @ or thru the vets, Reti? Sorry to hear that the little dove is still
having a hard time w/it all, hopefully just having supportive care in conjunction w/the canker meds will buy you some time. 

Really good news to hear of Lolita's progress, Reti, hope everything continues to 
improve there.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Very glad to hear of Lolita's progress...!


The little Dove -

Is there any sort of 'lump' which had been visible or palpable form the outside?

I ask, because I have seen some occasions in young Doves or Baby Doves even, where they had an odd 'lump' which accompanied Trichomiasis, and which turned out to be an Abcess.

I imagine this can happen initially from some pointy Weed Seed or who knows what...

Anyway...when saturated, the Abcess would seem soft, like Crop contents...but when approximately dessicated, it would seem hard. The saturation was occuring when she would drink Water, and, some of the Water was getting out through her perforated esophagus into the ajoining Abcess...

So...just wanted to run that by you...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Terry, fp, Phil.

I guess the Clavamox is to cover all bases, since Lucky Dove has been on Cipro, which didn't seem to do anything, he figured to switch to another antibiotic.

I didn't feel any other lumps other than the obstruction in the throat when feeding. Good news it seems to be gone, now I only hope there is no hole in the crop or esophagus. I am saying this cause now she is not pooping as much as she eats and she is not gaining any weight. That concerns me.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Now I have an even better update. Lolita is eating on her own. I slept in this morning so was late feeding her, when I entered her room she was eating and had finished already half of her seeds. I do have a problem with the water though, I can't leave it in her cage cause she does still twist her head quite a lot and after I left her water bowl in the cage only for a few minutes her head was all wet. She does drink when I hold her head, but leaving the water bowl with her is dangerous.

Also a wonderful update on Lucky Dove. I fed her seeds one by one and she is able to pick them up from my hand and swallow them. The little seeds do fall out of her beak but the bigger ones she is able to pick up, so there is hope she will be self feeding soon. I guess the obstruction in her throat must be gone too since she was is able to swallow big seeds.
I am thinking of discontinuing the Flagyl (she's been on it for two weeks) and continue with Spartrix and Clavamox.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yahoo! Well done Reti, Lolita, and Lucky! What a wonderful update!

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

That's great news all around Reti....even the part about sleeping in  , lol.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Well done Reti and congratulations with the little dove especially. I hope she continues to thrive and improve


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

So her jaw is beginning to move up and down enough to work with the bigger stuff, eh? Well, that's good. I was pretty happy to see that photo that you sent because I'd thought from your description over the phone that it sounded much worse.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


So glad to hear these update on both these Birds...!

I know some of my little Dove younngsters really liked those White Safflower Seeds...and likely yours would too, or already is, too...


Can you post some close-ups sometime of the little Dove's Beak...?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Reti,
> 
> Can you post some close-ups sometime of the little Dove's Beak...?
> 
> ...




Pidgey posted a link to a pic on page 3 post #42 of this thread of Lucky's beak.
It looks a bit better now, hope I can get a pic soon.

Yes, seem like she will be able to eat the big seeds. I am practicing with her so she can develop the remaining muscles and now it seems she will be ok.
Well, Pidgey, I never had to deal with something like this and when that piece of beak fell off I panicked.
Goes just to show you how tough those little ones are.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

WOW!  Terrific

I'm so glad to hear this last update. Your diligent loving & supportive care has paid off. 

Sounds like Lolita is getting better by the day. Great!

I guess lucky will be eating the BIG seeds then until she gets good at picking up and swallowing, and then she can graduate to both small and large seeds.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Trees Gray said:


> WOW!  Terrific
> 
> 
> Sounds like Lolita is getting better by the day. Great!
> ...



Oh, yes, Lolita is getting better. She upgrated to a cage yesterday (she was in a box snuggled in between towels to prevent her from rolling around too much). Now, try to put your hands in the cage and you get some good pecks. She seems to love her new "home" and feels she has to protect it.

I don't know if Lucky will be able ever to eat small seeds, her beak is still open and she can't close it completely, but even eating big seeds is better than being tube fed for the rest of her life.
Have to go give her breakfast now, which takes forever, but it is also so rewarding to see her eat with an apetite.


Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, I am really happy to hear today's report. 

Great job.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Maggie.
I love the bird on your avatar. What is it?

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Reti, thank you. I have no idea what this little guy was. He was a rescue from "our bridge" about 4 years ago, an adult (460 grams), but couldn't fly and crop was distended. We treated him like all the others we get in and released him back where he came from in about 7 weeks. We saw him for awhile but then he disappeared.

I think he was a "special" pigeon (besides being special just cause he was a pigeon  ) because of his size and markings. He was not banded so he may have only been just a gorgeous pij.

I thought I'd start putting some of our releases as my avatar to honor them in some way.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> I thought I'd start putting some of our releases as my avatar to honor them in some way.



That is a wonderful idea. They certainly deserve it.
This guy is really gorgeous, maybe someone else thought the same and took him in a pet.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> I can't leave it in her cage cause she does still twist her head quite a lot and after I left her water bowl in the cage only for a few minutes her head was all wet. She does drink when I hold her head, but leaving the water bowl with her is dangerous.
> Reti



Reti,

What if you got one of those small cups that hook on the cage, the ones from the pet store, and put water in that. They are big enough for the beak but they couldn't dunk their head in. Lolita may be able to practice and get a drink from that without drowning.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Ahhhhh...

I went back to Post "42" to review the image of the little Dove's Beak, but it is pretty blurry and I could not tell much.

I wonder...if a small, narrow container of very small whole Seeds might let her eat also? 

That is, if she pecks at them, her tongue can pull them in for her to swallow...

Might be worth a try...

Does she nuzzle to be fed at all? Or is she too old for that?

If she will 'nuzzle', her Beak could be gioded into such a small container ( a 'Shot Glass' say, ) of small whole Seeds, and she may be able to 'gobble' them without pecking, as Babys will...useing the same motions they would if their Beak were in their parent's throat. ONe keeps one's finger-tips on the sides of their little Beaks when doing this, so they can 'feel' somehting there for it all to feel right to them.



Anyway, what I was wondering on this, is whether it is some of the underlieing Bone which has been eroded, or, if it is the ancillary portions of outer Keritinaceous sheath and skin which has been lost...

Muscle wise, time will tell of course...

I bet she is happy to be feeling some Seeds in her Crop again...! Among other things!

Good going!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Treesa, that is a good idea. I have some big ones I thought about, but they are still dangerous, but the small ones would do I guess. She would need several of them cause she drinks a of of water.
Do you have any idea what breed she is? She has a red wattle and red beak, only the tip of the beak is white. She also has red ceres. She is very big boned. She doesn't look anything like my other big birds.


Phil, she is nuzzling now, guess cause she is feeling better. I tried to dip her beak into a big bowl of seeds, but she wouldn't eat. She wants me to feed her, I do hope in a few days she will try to peck on her ownl. I will try the shot glass, maybe she likes it better.
Right now she is vomiting the seeds from lunch. Guess it was too many seeds for one day.
One the side of the beak, where the joint is, there is exposed bone on the top and bottom mandible, so the joint is destroyed, but not completely. She does have some mobility with the help from the other side. 

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

REALLY delighted to hear about Lolita and Lucky! I sure wish them all the best! You have done a great job!!  

Will look forward to more updates on both!! Warm Healing thoughts, kisses and scratches to both!


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