# Fluffed up and leaning backwards



## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

My husband found a baby pigeon at work that had fallen out of it's nest. It was impossible to put it back as it was so high up. We began hand feeding it Kaytee baby food and he was doing awesome. We've had him about eight weeks and the last few days he's stopped eating, his poop is reaaaaally green and he sits on my hubby's shoulder all puffed up. He's been pulling the wax off his pin feathers like crazy and he acts pretty much normal except that sometimes he starts leaning back like he's about to fall over. I was worried about him having not eaten in a few days so I gave him a couple syringe's of baby bird food tonight and we have an appointment with a vet tomorrow...just wondering if anybody had any ideas what could be going on? This is the first pigeon we've ever had contact with and we're pretty much clueless. 

Donna G


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Pecking himself intensely means he has parasits, lices or mites, or that his feathers are growing. Fluffed up means he feels cold and that could be because of a bacterial (or other kind of) disease or because he didn't eat enough to provide energy & heat to the body.


Leaning back may mean he has some pain in the body. I have a pigeon that after I hydrate, leans on her back and rises the head to not cause the water come up from crop into mouth and enter the respiratory tract.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

A pigeon may lean backwards and kinda stretch its neck if it has a blockage somewhere in the digestive system, like lower part of throat. Most common would be Canker (Trichomoniasis), which may be out of sight but can quite often be seen as a yellowish substance at the back of the mouth and in upper throat.

If it leans right back so the back of the head pretty much touches the shoulders, more often seen in doves, it could possibly be a nervous reaction to a deficiency in vitamin B.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

dlgigout said:


> My husband found a baby pigeon at work that had fallen out of it's nest. It was impossible to put it back as it was so high up. We began hand feeding it Kaytee baby food and he was doing awesome. We've had him about eight weeks and the last few days he's stopped eating, his poop is reaaaaally green and he sits on my hubby's shoulder all puffed up. He's been pulling the wax off his pin feathers like crazy and he acts pretty much normal except that sometimes he starts leaning back like he's about to fall over. I was worried about him having not eaten in a few days so I gave him a couple syringe's of baby bird food tonight and we have an appointment with a vet tomorrow...just wondering if anybody had any ideas what could be going on? This is the first pigeon we've ever had contact with and we're pretty much clueless.
> 
> Donna G


* Keep bird warm and well fed for now.

What has the bird been eating since he has weaned? This may be a vitamin/mineral deficiency as stated by John. Has the bird been getting any calcium/D3 supplement, any access to sunlight?*


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

Skyeking said:


> * Keep bird warm and well fed for now.
> 
> What has the bird been eating since he has weaned? This may be a vitamin/mineral deficiency as stated by John. Has the bird been getting any calcium/D3 supplement, any access to sunlight?*


We were feeding him dove seed from the feed store then switched over to pigeon feed and red grit. He was eating pretty good till about three or four days ago. He only does the lean back thing when he's sitting on the coffee table or sometimes in his cage. When he sits on my hubby's shoulder he seems fine. We've got an appointment with a vet this afternoon so hopefully they can get it sorted out. I checked his mouth and there's no canker that I can see. I was able to get a syringe full of baby food down him this morning and when I checked on him when I got home he's pretty much the same :/

Thank y'all for the responses, we're feeling a bit stressed over all this


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Skyeking said:


> * Keep bird warm and well fed for now.
> 
> What has the bird been eating since he has weaned? This may be a vitamin/mineral deficiency as stated by John.* Has the bird been getting any calcium/D3 supplement, * any access to sunlight?*


** You didn't answer all my questions.*


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

Skyeking...no, he hasn't been getting much at all which we are trying to remedy. The vet said he looked good but he's basically starving. We sorta knew that because he hasn't been eating in the last few days. He told us to get some chick started and feed him that and supplement with the baby food till he started to put some weight back on. He seemed to perk up at the vet and is eating a little of his seeds now so we're feeling optimistic

DG


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It wouldn't hurt to treat for canker. Has he vomited at all? Don't just look in his mouth. Use a small flashlight and look way down his throat.


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

I've tried a couple of times to feed him with a syringe and it just ends up with him choking and me feeling awful. I went back to the vet and got a stainless feeding tube that should work better. I've tried repeatedly to tell the vet that it seems like it "hurts" for him to swallow but the vet just ignores me and keeps telling me the bird is starving. I *KNOW* he's starving since we can't get him to eat! I'm getting stressed/frustrated and am hoping I can get some nourishment into him this evening. I've got a gut feeling it may be canker down in his croup somewhere that I can't see it just by the way he's acting. What do you treat it with? I don't think I can convince the vet, since he looked in his mouth and didn't see anything :/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Metronidazole is very good for canker. 50 mg once daily. I would get the vet to give it to me. You can usually find it in a tropical fish store. Called Fish Zole Just make sure there is no other drug in it. If you find it, you can break the pills up into the right dose.

As far as feeding, you can use frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. Just hold the bird on your lap and against your body. Open his beak and put in a warm pea. Now push it to the back of the throat and over the tongue. Let go of the beak so he can swallow. Start with 30, and add more each feeding till you are giving about 50 at a time. Wait for his crop to empty before feeding again. Could take 5 or 6 hours usually.


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

Thank you  

I was able to get two syringe full into him. I've been looking around on the internet and saw a pic of poop that looks just like his. They said it was salmonella and I'm wondering if the food I get at the feed store (that's in an open bulk bin) could be tainted from rodents getting into it or something. I checked all the way down his throat as far as I could see and didn't see anything that looked like canker to me


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does it seem as though he is pooping enough for what you are feeding him? Lots of different droppings can look the same as something else. Is he drinking normally, or more than usual?


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

He's pooping pretty good, doesn't look like he's drinking water but there's lots in the baby food I'm force feeding him. His breathing is sounding raspy now though


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You may have gotten some down the wrong way. I hope not. The frozen peas are safer, and just till he starts eating again.


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

Monkey's getting better! I was soooo worried when I left for work this morning and I went to three pet stores looking for that fish medicine, couldn't find any. I got home and he looked so much better  He's not sitting all fluffed up anymore and looks really good. Still wheezing just a little bit but not too much. I put him on a heating pad for a while today and we're able to get more food into his croup. I'm SO happy. Thanks everybody for the help...here's a pic of my little Monkey:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's very cute, but something had to be wrong. I would treat for canker. Pigeon supplies online would have the Metronidazole. His feathering on his face and head aren't right. Canker will cause that also, and it's very common.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

He looks like having canker (having retarded physical development, lack of feathers and and the chin pulled back). Often, the situation may seem to improve only to turn worse and even end fatally.


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm definately going to contact the vet today and get some medicine. He started coughing about twenty minutes after we fed him this morning and the way he's moving his neck and swallowing I'm sure y'all are correct. Thanks for the input

DG


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

What methode of feeding are you using? You said you use a syringe, but have you attached a tube to the syringe? The food must go directly into the crop, not in the mouth.


Putting the food directly in the mouth means a big chance to aspirate him, as the respiratory vent is on the tongue.

Here you have indications about how to tube feed the pigeon:

http://www.pigeoncote.com/vet/feedbaby/feedbaby.html


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

The vet sold us a stainless steel feeding tube that I use with the syringe. There's no way I'm aspirating him which makes me think it's the canker. I was a nervous wreck this morning after having fed him...he was coughing with every breath. There was nothing else I could do so I put him back in his cage. I just went to check on him, six hours later, and he seems perfectly fine. He's flying (what little bit he can do) over to the couch and table and he was pecking at his food. He seems intent on eating the bigger pieces that come in the pigeon mix we get at the feed store. It looked like he just dropped them on the floor though. No wheezing or coughing at all. Everything seems to go haywire after a hand feeding.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

It would be good if you make a movie, put it on youtube and give us the link. Coughing may be caused by water or food that entered his vent, that explains why later he didn't anymore. 


Even if you use a tube, if it doesn't go to the bottom of the crop may lead to aspiration. And even if the tube goes all the way down, if the crop is full or has some bad condition, food or water may go up and reach the respiratory vent. 


If during feeding / hydrating the bird shows the slightest resistance to your action, you should stop immediately.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Before feeding into the crop you should be shown how to do it properly. And when you feed, you must go in deep enough, but not so deep as to injure him, and put the food in slowly, because if you go too fast, it can come back up and aspirate him. Sounds like it is getting into his trach, if he is doing this immediately following a feeding. This can be dangerous.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> He looks like having canker (having retarded physical development, lack of feathers and and the chin pulled back). Often, the situation may seem to improve only to turn worse and even end fatally.


If treated for canker, which begins to get better, but comes back, then it wasn't treated long enough, or wasn't treated with the right drug.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Ther is also the possibility of treating for canker but the bird having actually something else, like worms.


I had this situation these days, a pigeon fluffed up, eating very little, very thin. I gave him metronidazole, Fosfomycin (universal antibiotic, very efficient as doesn't create resistence) and Coccistop and no improvement. Then today I gave Pyrantel and bird started to feel good all of a sudden, eating more, making big droppings, playing. 


This is quite similar with what I've read in this thread:



> in between times I will have 1 or 2 birds (usually young ones) that puff up and look sluggish and thin all of a sudden. I bring them inside and the 1st thing I do is give them .13ml of pyrantel and watch them. The next morning there is a clump of roundworms on their paper and their much perkier!
> 
> ....so they could still have worms and people will give them antibiotics when its not necessary


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/pyrantel-pamoate-overdose-60919.html


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## dlgigout (Sep 23, 2014)

Update on Monkey: We're still hand feeding him to get some weight on him but it's going much more smoothly now. I think he's getting used to it and not fighting the tube any longer. I'm able to get a couple of syringe fulls into his crop and he's eating seeds on his own now! Whatever was in his throat seems to be gone and he looks like the Monkey of old. He's flying around, eating and pooping normally. (well, his poop is watery b/c of the baby food we're giving him but it's back to a normal color) It's like he's a completely different bird. Again, thank you to everyone who gave suggestions and advice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much are you giving him? You say a couple of syringes, but don't say the size of the syringe. There have to be a reason why he stopped eating, and he looked like it may be canker. He needs treatment.


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