# What will I get???.... Carrying TS & Carrying FS...



## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

cock is black carrying white bar (white bar is clear in few feathers ) ... 
Hen is ash red .... father is FS... Mothers are R. Yellow & khaki.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

How did you get an ash-red from two dilute birds?  
Some birds will be carrying FS, some TS, some both, and some neither.
It's also a sex-linked mating if the cock is black and the hen is ash-red. So all cocks will be ash-red (or lavender) and all hens will be blue (or black).


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

Thank you for reply.... 



FS Cock..



Hen 1 .... All babies were black




Hen 2 .....All babies were Red or Ash Red



Babies carry FS


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

This cock is carrying TS ( white bar ) ... you can see the red spots on the wing they will change to white after molting. I have 6 birds some of them ready for mating.

My questions ... 

what will I get when I mate this bird with a hen carrying FS ? 
What is the link between the 2 gens?


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## Alan Bliven (Nov 10, 2004)

Breed the FS cock to one of his daughters


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Whoops, I didn't realize you meant it like that (so disregard my question earlier on the dilute).


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Could someone do a short overview of the frill stencil gene (is there a webpage?).
I somehow get the "idea" that toy stencil and frill stencil together have a special effect.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Frill Stencil is recessive, you need two copies of this gene in order for a bird to express it (fs//fs). So when you breed a fs//fs to a bird that does not have it, the effect will get lost (visually speaking). if you take the babies and breed them to the fs//fs parent, 50% of the babies will express it and the other 50% will carry the gene without expressing it. fs effects the smooth spread areas, the tail bar that is, it turns the bar into a spot and in the presence of spread it turns the tail to a lace and may even make the bird entirely laced.
Toy Stencil on the other hand is partial dominant, and there are 3 parts to this complex gene, TS1, TS2, TS3. Very often when you breed a TS bird to an unrelated non TS bird, you will get some bronzing in the coarse spread areas, bars, and check areas on the wing shields that is. With the homozygous (two copies of a particular gene) presence of all TS1//TS1, TS2//TS2, TS3//TS3, the pure white is achieved, if one or more is missing, you can get various shades of bronze, sometimes from very rich to a root beer bronze. 

Your cock bird is both TS and fs//fs, blue carrying recessive red.

Hen no 1. is Spread, dilute, brown, since brown is recessive to blue and your cock does not carry brown, all the babies from that mating will be blue, and since Spread is dominant to wild type (non spread), 50% of the babies will be spread blue (black) and 50% blue T check, check or bar. 

Hen no 2. is recessive red, dilute (yellow), she may be Ash red as well. Only test breeding will reveal that. Rec red is epistatic, meaning it has the ability to mask any color/ pattern underneath. As the name suggests, rec. red is recessive to blue, (again you need two copies of any recessive gene for a bird to express it) and if your cock bird did not carry recessive red you would not have rec red babies out of that mating. Since your cock bird is a carrier, you will get 50% rec red young from that mating, however since your cock is not a dilute nor he carries the gene, all the rec red babies are intense colored birds. Those birds that are not in the 50% rec reds, will show what is underneath, and if your hen is also Ash Red, all cock birds will be ash red split for blue, and all hens will be blue. 
I hope this did not confuse you, let me know if I can clarify anything else.
Vahe


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Albannai said:


> This cock is carrying TS ( white bar ) ... you can see the red spots on the wing they will change to white after molting. I have 6 birds some of them ready for mating.
> 
> My questions ...
> 
> ...


Be careful with that top bird, it looks like it has Pox.


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

FalconLofts.com said:


> Frill Stencil is recessive, you need two copies of this gene in order for a bird to express it (fs//fs).
> Toy Stencil on the other hand is partial dominant, and there are 3 parts to this complex gene, TS1, TS2, TS3. With the homozygous (two copies of a particular gene) presence of all TS1//TS1, TS2//TS2, TS3//TS3, the pure white is achieved.
> 
> Your cock bird is both TS and fs//fs, blue carrying recessive red.
> ...


You are right, exactly as you said the hen was carrying both TS and fs//fs. when I mated her with a cock carrying TS (same young with bronze bar). This what I got.





But, would you explain how did you know that the cock is both TS and FS? and what are the color marks in the cock??
Thank you..


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Albannai said:


> You are right, exactly as you said the hen was carrying both TS and fs//fs. when I mated her with a cock carrying TS (same young with bronze bar). This what I got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bronzing of the wing pattern is definitely a sign of TS (incomplete though, you do not have all three genes in homozygous state yet.) Though they might (and probably will in my opinion) moult out lighter, to a rose color.

This bird also obviously carries fs (since mom was fs//fs).


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Albannai said:


> You are right, exactly as you said the hen was carrying both TS and fs//fs. when I mated her with a cock carrying TS (same young with bronze bar). This what I got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear you test bred the pair and found out for yourself.
Your cock is both fs//fs and Ts//Ts because the tail bar indicates a homozygous frill stencil, (since it is a recessive gene), otherwise it wouldn't express itself. Also notice the tips of the primaries...

Toy stencil is responsible for altering the wing pattern (coarse spread areas).
Is that cock a Lebanon?

Vahe


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

FalconLofts.com said:


> Your cock is both fs//fs and Ts//Ts because the tail bar indicates a homozygous frill stencil, (since it is a recessive gene), otherwise it wouldn't express itself. Also notice the tips of the primaries...
> 
> Toy stencil is responsible for altering the wing pattern (coarse spread areas).
> Is that cock a Lebanon?
> ...


No, the cock is roller and was imported from USA last year.

what about the (danish Suabian) I know that ts too but, sometimes indicates lace on the tail bar too?

and that means these 2 OF are both fs//fs and Ts//Ts because of the tail bar, right.


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Yes, you are right. They are beautiful birds, both Toy and Frill are very comfortably situated in the genome of OFs, therefore they usually express themselves very nicely...

Vahe


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Where are you located?


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## FalconLofts.com (Dec 29, 2010)

Albannai said:


> No, the cock is roller and was imported from USA last year.
> 
> was that bird bred by Dal Stone by any chance?


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

I'm from Kuwait. 

Idon't know the breeder because I bought it from Kuwait last year.


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