# Very tame wild baby pigeon-what to do with her?



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

This week a very pretty & tame baby pigeon turned up at my place at dusk,and it didn't fly off when it became dark. It was a weak kind of flyer and especially small, even for a baby, and took two goes to fly onto the roof. I was worried about it so I talked to it and it actually flew back down from my roof, came towards my voice, and then started to roost on the ground near me.So I gently picked it up and took it in for the night to check its health. As far as I can tell, it has a really good weight to it, no signs of canker in its mouth, and its droppings are perfect. I let it go outside the next morning because it seemed to want to get out with the other pigeons and I thought that might be best. 

But for the past three nights, its been coming to my back door to be picked up and let in for the night, and I'm letting it out for the day to be with other pigeons. It spends the day with other babies and adults, but its still not strong enough to fly off with them all, so it comes inside for the night. Also, if it gets upset, it flies onto my shoulder when its outside.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Its seems to be too young, weak, and impressionable to be out of the nest. On the other hand, i don't want to impress it and rob it of its chances to be free.

What do you guys make of this?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Sounds like a bird somebody had found and raised by hand, and then released (or it escaped) or maybe it's an unbanded youngster from a loft who is very familiar with people.

Does seem that it recognizes 'inside' as the place to be at the end of the day, which suggests it could be at risk if left out at night.

Guess you have a new little friend 

Maybe just be guided by how she behaves as she gets a few days and weeks older. If she shows increasing confidence and desire to be with a flock, so be it.


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## Lexygurl (Jun 28, 2007)

Where did you find this bird? I recently lost a pet pigeon in CA, although the one you found sounds too young.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Lexygurl said:


> Where did you find this bird? I recently lost a pet pigeon in CA, although the one you found sounds too young.


would need to be a really good flier if it was yours (or hitch a lift on a plane)
Bella's in Australia lol


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for your help John & Quazar!

I'm really sorry to hear about your lost pet Lexygurl, and I wish this one was yours But like Quazar said, I'm in Australia. If your pet is older than this one, then maybe it will ok out there and will have been accepted into a flock?

I'm still confused about what to do with this one. Its morning and I've been letting it outside these past couple of mornings, only to fret about it all day. I think I'll keep it inside until I can learn more about young pigeons. It looks to be about 5 weeks old.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

5 weeks would not be flying yet or on it's own yet, I do not think...

Can you post some Images?

May have got seperated from mom-&-dad...


Is he/she eating on their own?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Maybe its just not ready to actually have left the nest yet or has been forced out by a sibling so is looking to you for safety.
Ive rescued quite a few young ones recently, theres a railway bridge near me and they fall out the nests regularly with no safe place to go as there is no footpath beside the road, and no safe place to put them nearby.
The first one I found back at the beginning of May, terrified & huddled into the wall about a foot from passing cars, looked like it had been picked on by another bird, definately couldnt fly & was no where near ready to leave the nest, and I had to bottle feed it for a couple of days & teach it to eat.
Since then I've had about 6 others from the same area, although all squeakers, but more advanced in flight & eating, & have been able to soft release them successfully without a problem.
"Cheeky" on the other hand just will not go, and has virtualy become a pet.
I've had him (still not sure if its a he or she, but now def vocally acting more male) on several releases with other ones, he goes and eats with the other birds, and sometimes flys with them when they leave, but then he flies straight back to my shoulder as I'm getting in the car.
He'll sit at room window and watch other birds, but even when window is wide open he just wont go.
Hes also a lot smaller than some of the others Ive had, although eats & drinks well & poops are good.
His flying skills are amazing, he'll take "mad" turns and fly towards things at speed, then do 180 degree turns, fly back then just stop & "helicopter" in mid flight before landing perfectly. I really havent seen a pigeon as fast and manouverable as him lol.
Its good having him around when other youngsters come in, as it helps them relax, they cooperate relatively easilly and learn to eat seeds very quickly after watching him.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks so much Quazar , John, and Phil, I really appreciate your advice and reassurance.

I have posted some pics of him above...any ideas of his age? I know its hard to gauge his size- I would say he's 3/4 full pigeon size. 

I really wasn't sure about what I was doing today, and I felt helpless not even knowing his age or what is normal. I wanted to protect him, but I didn't want to imprint him unnecessarily and ruin his chances of being free. It was kind of stressful because what ever his age is, he's obviously very much on the cusp of imprinting, but also very interested in the other pigeons and excited about their companionship.

So I let him out in the end because he wanted to go & the weather was beautiful and sunny. There were a lot of other pigeons hanging about on my back deck where it is safe, and wanted to be with them. He came back inside a couple of times, then went on the roof with 20 or so others to bask in the sun, and later to have a bath. He's definitely self feeding, drinking and bathing. 

I later saw a new baby pigeon turn up that I haven't seen before, and he was staying very close to it. It was a different colour, but the same size, with the same big eyes and ring around them. I saw him later fly off with it and two others, and he didn't come back tonight. So maybe you guys were right and he was kicked out the nest by a sibling and was just a few days premature in leaving the nest? I'll let you know if he turns up tomorrow, which I do expect him to do.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

He's well grown, looks more matured than the 10 week old (approx) bird I have in currently. They fledge at around 35 days, though they tend not to be fully independent for another week or two, unless the parents chase 'em off because they are on the next brood.

Does seem like he's unusually human friendly, though, for a straightforward feral.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for saying so John; knowing he's probably 10 or so weeks old will help me get to sleep tonight. He sure is a mystery.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> I really wasn't sure about what I was doing today, and I felt helpless not even knowing his age or what is normal. I wanted to protect him, but I didn't want to imprint him unnecessarily and ruin his chances of being free. It was kind of stressful because what ever his age is, he's obviously very much on the cusp of imprinting, but also very interested in the other pigeons and excited about their companionship.
> 
> So I let him out in the end because he wanted to go & the weather was beautiful and sunny. There were a lot of other pigeons hanging about on my back deck where it is safe, and wanted to be with them. He came back inside a couple of times, then went on the roof with 20 or so others to bask in the sun, and later to have a bath. He's definitely self feeding, drinking and bathing.
> 
> I later saw a new baby pigeon turn up that I haven't seen before, and he was staying very close to it. It was a different colour, but the same size, with the same big eyes and ring around them. I saw him later fly off with it and two others, and he didn't come back tonight. So maybe you guys were right and he was kicked out the nest by a sibling and was just a few days premature in leaving the nest? I'll let you know if he turns up tomorrow, which I do expect him to do.


If he keeps turning up, you may have been chosen to be his human companion. A bird who is so friendly can get hurt very badly by other humans, if he keeps coming back and being friendly with you--it might be worth it to keep him inside or in an aviary with a pigeon hen. This would be for his protection if he chooses to stay so tame.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Libis,

Thanks for your advice and its a nice thought to be `chosen' by a bird, isn't it?

I wonder if this one could be a released baby that was rescued? That could explain its tameness. I wonder, is 10 or so weeks of age the right age to release a baby? If it was rescued, the rescuer did a really good job of it. Its is very healthy, and tame but not imprinted. If I get any more news about it I'll let you guys know.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It's likely a little more than 10 weeks .. as I say, looks more grown up than my current little one. But then, never easy to tell. I'm going by my pigeon just starting to coo (he's a late developer I think)


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey John,

That's great work with your little one, well done!.

The baby turned up again this morning, waiting outside my back door. I fed him and watched him for a while. When you actually see him in real life, he looks smaller than the pictures show & he seems painfully inexperienced. He really seems like a squeaker, with not really knowing how to eat properly. He looks like he's just learning everything, including drinking. And when the males come near and peck him, he squeaks like a baby and came running to me.

In the end I let him inside again and he's sitting in my office with the window open, but he's happy where he is inside. He let me pick him up and he's walking onto my hand now. 

I wonder if I should worm him and treat for canker, or least treat his mites, while I have the opportunity?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bella, 



I would not worry about any 'imprinting'...

At this Fledgling Age however, they CAN have entirely naive, and 'new' Sexual feelings, even though in Nature there would be close to nothing to stimulate them or to respond to them in that way, other than if it is a Hen, older PlayBoy males might try courting her even at her young age.


But...where this matters to us, is...whether it is a male or female, our touching their Beak, offering 'cuddles' and feeding them by Hand and so on, can sometimes stimulate their incipient sexual potentials, to where, hardly having had a break from mom-&-dad, and far from ready or grown up enough, they now naively are all worked up over having a Mate..!


Lol...

This can have them be quite 'attached' to us, and, if that happens by accident, it will pass just fine as they spend more time among their own, so, it is not the end of the world, or permenent, if it happens...a passing 'cruch' one could say.


Some fledglings do seem to be quite naive, open, and unafraid...while others are fiercely self posessed, wary of people, and can be very hard to win over if one has to render care and aid.


Post some images of his freshest poops if you like?


Otherwise, at-a-glance, he/she looksand sounds healthy to me anyway...



Phil
L v


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Dear Libis,
> 
> Thanks for your advice and its a nice thought to be `chosen' by a bird, isn't it?
> 
> I wonder if this one could be a released baby that was rescued? That could explain its tameness. I wonder, is 10 or so weeks of age the right age to release a baby? If it was rescued, the rescuer did a really good job of it. Its is very healthy, and tame but not imprinted. If I get any more news about it I'll let you guys know.


I know that's how we've gotten several of our cats, and how mom got the best dog she ever had. (Poor dog followed her home every day until she kept her.) 



I just feel like if it likes you enough to keep coming back, it's worth protecting it in return (from people.)


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Phil,

Thank you for your advice; I feel a little less frightened of caring for him as neccessary now. 

He's been very settled inside today, if not a bit lethargic. I am a little bit worried about him because there is some nasty stuff going around in the flock, so I decided to treat him for some basics. For starters I applied a few drops of moxydectin on the back of his neck for the lice, and I also gave him half a spartrix. He's sleeping in a sunny spot now . Here are some pictures of him, i am sorry for the poor clarity: 

PS. He is making little Squeaking sounds at me, but I have seen him eat and drink. Is this an indication of him not getting enough to eat, do you think? 

PPS. What is good to feed him?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

He has such a sweet face!  He looks so content in the first picture-- and such bright eyes!

He looks old enough to be eating on his own--that's just a guess though and perhaps more experienced people should weigh in on that. How much is he eating of what you feed your other pigeons? What do you feed your other pigeons? If it's pellet and he doesn't like it and that has you worried you could give him Kaytee supreme dove food from the pet store and slowly switch him over to pellets. Or maybe just wild bird seed mixed with the pellet to get him going? 

Sometimes when the birds are weaned they'll still beg a bit. I know my little doveys begged for a few weeks after they were fully weaned--even though they were cleaning up their bowl pretty well. Even after that they would squeak for attention from me in the morning--and they also seem to still like for me to feed them seeds from the palm of my hand before I fill their bowl. (Or after--I guess it's just kind of a social thing for them now.) My little ones also squeaked at each other for quite a long time since they couldn't coo. 

Edit: I was thinking--if he seems really small/not gaining weight but eager/ridiculously hungry to eat, couldn't that indicate worms? It always did with our kittens and the like. Probably just paranoid because I should be off to sleep, but I thought it would be worth consideration.

At the same time, I know after a few weeks I couldn't believe how much seed my baby birds were eating, and they're just little ringnecks. He might just be a growing boy. If you're worried he's not getting enough, maybe feed seeds from your palms in the morning and evening and them monitor how much leaves his bowl? That's what I did when the vet was worried mine were a bit thin. (This could make him permanently yours--with habits of flying to people for food.)


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Libis,

I want to thank you heaps for your input, but firstly I just have say how cute and adorable your ringnecks are! They are just stunning!. Are they are a fairly shy bird in captivity like they are in the wild, or do they become very tame when they are loved ? Anyway they are lovely.

Regarding the food for the little one I have here, he seems to eat enough but he's still learning. For example he doesn't eat the sunflower kernels yet. Also, thanks for reminding me to worm him. I will worm him for sure, but I'll do it after the canker treatment, and when I've found out which one is safe for a little thing like this one. Do you have any suggestions?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

HI Bella,



The first three images here - 

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/578642970QXnyxS


Is how I feed them.

I am presently feeding in this same way, some the same age as yours, and, some Adults who have 'reverted' to Squeakerhood for the time being.

Works very well, is effecient, and, they love it.


Might take you a few tries to get it worked out.

You need to get them 'Nuzzling' and asking TO be fed.

Moisten your finger tips in warm water, shake off the drops, and softly 'massage' their Beak form the front, from just below their Eye level.


Lead the Beak to drink in this way, also, keeping your finger tip pads on the Beak, as they drink, and, then they will also be ready to move on to the same gesture, for food.


Or, you need to gently open their Beak, put in a few small whole Seeds, then hold your slightly moist, warm, finger tips on their Beak keeping it closed, as they swallow, and as they swallow, move their Beak up and down a little ways, to remind them of the up and down motions they knew from when they fed from mom and dad, then THAT will get it across to them, that you would like to feed them, that YOU will step in for Mom-n-Dad now, where, they will then be 'Nuzzling' then, and asking to be fed.


Just look at the images, and, make a trough with your Fingers, as shown...Thumb then covers the Trough Thumb ends up on the top of their Beak - this then is a 'Finger Beak' or Poppa or Momma 'Hand Beak'.

The Youngster jams his Beak into the bottom opening of the Trough, or you softly grasp it there, and the youngster 'gobbles' the Seeds just as if they were feeding from a parent's Throat.


You can stuff them silly in no time with this method, and, it is easy and fun for you, and, for them, a "Win Win'.


I do this with them standing on a Towel folded across my Lap...and this then catches and spilled Seeds for easy retreival.


If a Youngster or other candidate has respiratory illness and a wildly dialated Trachea then do not use this method, but use the Tube Feed instead, since you do not want them aspirating a Seed.

Normal Trachea, and no obturations in the Throat from Canker or other, then this method is good.


Once you have the knack, and have worked out how to do it, it is easy, and you can get any youngster all excited and accepting your gesture and invite in no time.

I have had many Adult Birds of full maturity and then some who from blunt trauma or privation from illness, responded to this just as a Squeaker would, and they 'Nuzzle' and Flap and do the dance and so on with happiness, just as a Squeaker or Peeper would do...and 'gobble' their Seeds from the 'Hand Beak'...as they try and Squeak but it comes out different since they are older and can not Squeak anymore like they did as Babys or Squeakers...but they 'honk' or sort of 'Squeak'.


So, it is a good thing to learn to do...


Good for them, good for you...saves time, and is very Natural.



Seed size of course should be appropriate to their age/size and condition.


Otherwise, it works fine for Babys who are six days old, through Senior Citizen Pigeons if they elect to be amenible to it.


I feed various Seed Mixes having various sizes and kinds of Seeds.


If I feel a Pigeon's digestive system is a little iffy or has been through some privations recently, but, that they can handle whole seeds, I then feed small size whole seeds such as a Canary or Finch Seed Mix.


If I think they are going to be alright with regular Pigeon Mix, then I feed that.


I may also add additional nutrients to it, such as a light glistening of fresh Olive Oil, powdered people-type Sea Weeds, Brewer's Yeast, or other things.


Phil
Lv


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Wow, great photos Phil!

What is that you're feeding them?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Looks like Canary or Finch Seed mix...a medley of various pretty small, whole Seeds...and likely I also added some Canary or Finch Grit, which is also small size.

One can also punch a bunch of small Holes with a Pencil, in the bottom of a Paper Cup, and, shake some regular Pigeon Grit around in it, and, the smallest fine pieces will come out through the holes, and you can use those for the small ones or iffy ones for mixing with their small whole Seeds.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Dear Libis,
> 
> I want to thank you heaps for your input, but firstly I just have say how cute and adorable your ringnecks are! They are just stunning!. Are they are a fairly shy bird in captivity like they are in the wild, or do they become very tame when they are loved ? Anyway they are lovely.
> 
> Regarding the food for the little one I have here, he seems to eat enough but he's still learning. For example he doesn't eat the sunflower kernels yet. Also, thanks for reminding me to worm him. I will worm him for sure, but I'll do it after the canker treatment, and when I've found out which one is safe for a little thing like this one. Do you have any suggestions?


Thanks! I love my little doveys. (More pics are in my photo album.) Well, ringnecks generally can be tamed to a point (they've been in captivity for 2000+ years,) but it depends on the bird's personality whether they want loved on or not.  One of my ringnecks is completely tame, but doesn't like cuddled or held and acts like a bossy prideful cat. Two of my birds are very affectionate with me and like to hang around on me and be petted. One was raised in an aviary setting with little human attention and doesn't trust me completely just yet--but will eat from my hand if she sees her mate do it first. Only the cuddly two will step-up onto my hand. 

Medicine-wise you'll need to talk to more experienced members. I have no idea what to tell you about canker meds. The only worming experience I have is with ivermectin, but I'm not sure if it's ok with young birds.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info Libis! They sounds like lovely birds to live with.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks for the info Libis! They sounds like lovely birds to live with.


Oh, forgot to mention the diamonds. Diamond doves are tame-a-ble to some degree, but none of mine are tame. Mine prefer the attention of their own species.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

As an update, I still have the little guy in my care and I'm treating it for worms and canker. I wasn't very happy with its droppings and level of lethargy yesterday...the urates became clear and the droppings somewhat runny, and some were very runny. I kept in mind that the spartrix could have caused it (not the wormer, because the runny poops started before I gave it worming meds).

Anyway, long story short, I started putting the little one outside in a cage during feeding time, with food scattered all around inside and outside the cage. The companionship of other birds eating has got it eating extremely heartily and doing excellent droppings again, thankfully. I am so glad that I took it in- it really is a tiny bird, and not ready to be out there yet.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Libis said:


> Oh, forgot to mention the diamonds. Diamond doves are tame-a-ble to some degree, but none of mine are tame. Mine prefer the attention of their own species.


Thanks Libis! Are Susy & Lucy Diamonds?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Glad to hgear the positive up-date Bella!


Did you try the 'Hand Beak'?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Phil,

Yes I tried it but I couldn't get him to respond. If I restrained him he became agitated, and if I didn't he flew away. But he really likes eating with other pigeons. The first time he squeaked at the big male pigeons and bobbed his head a them, begging for food. But he quickly adjusted to mimicracy instead. I am extremely happy with his eating now and his droppings.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds good...


Keep the 'Hand Beak' in mind for those for whom it will be useful...it is really good way to feed them when they are either too young to really eat on their own yet, or, even if eating on their own but where they wish for some support and parenting still, or for older Pigeons who are having troubles eating ( PPMV, Blunt Trauma, etc ).


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> Sounds good...
> 
> 
> Keep the 'Hand Beak' in mind for those for whom it will be useful...it is really good way to feed them when they are either too young to really eat on their own yet, or, even if eating on their own but where they wish for some support and parenting still, or for older Pigeons who are having troubles eating ( PPMV, Blunt Trauma, etc ).


Its sounds really good Phil, 

But how many goes would it normally take to work with a wild bird ? I can see how a starving bird might be trained to accept food this way, but the ones I take in are usually very ill and can't be deprived of their food. I am bit unsure of how to train them to accept my hand, or even a syringe, without using food deprivation?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks Libis! Are Susy & Lucy Diamonds?


Yes.  They're my itty-bitty diamonds--they're only a little bigger than finches. I just got two more from a rescue, too--they're in quarantine right now.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Its sounds really good Phil,
> 
> But how many goes would it normally take to work with a wild bird ? I can see how a starving bird might be trained to accept food this way, but the ones I take in are usually very ill and can't be deprived of their food. I am bit unsure of how to train them to accept my hand, or even a syringe, without using food deprivation?


I think nearly every bird is different and also dependant on how much they trust you.
Cheeky just wouldnt nuzzle, but went straight from bottle feed to pecking & eating himself in just 2 days. 
Ive got 2 at the moment with injured wings that just wouldnt eat or nuzzle when I first got them & had to pop feed them.
Dont know if it was the fact that they saw Cheeky pecking around, but both of them suddenly started pecking and scoffing seeds like mad.
One is happy to eat peas & seeds out of my hand, the other wont, but as soon as I lay them in front of it it knocks my finger out of the way & scoffs the seed down.
I really dont like force feeding as even when wrapped in a towel I feel it puts stress on a sick bird, but sometimes theres no other way.
Its strange, although Cheeky wouldnt nuzzle at first, now hes eating normally he'll happily sit and eat seeds from my hand & nuzzle his beak between my fingers at the same time.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Bella_F said:


> Its sounds really good Phil,
> 
> But how many goes would it normally take to work with a wild bird ?



This is negotiated...so it depends on one's skill and finesse at the negotiation, and, in how things have gone so far, leading up to that point...it is a form of communication in offering sounds and gestures they ( this is for Pigeons and Doves and would have to be adjusted for other Species who eat differently and have a different style of being fed, so they will ) understand and can make their decision to accept or reject.


My entire reason for having recommended it to you, is for it being extremely practical, easy to do, and a huge Moralle Booster for the shy, confused, worried, insecure or anxious youngster or other who needs TO be fed, and, who, if acted toward in terms he or she understands and is happy with, will gladly ask to be fed, and, who will appreciate being fed.

This is about Pigeons or Doves we may get in who are injured, ill or logistically orphanned - not about full grown, mature adult Pigeons or Doves who are doing fine as is and do not need out help.

I would not recommend a method which had no value or which relied on coersion or cruelty.


Done right, I have had extremely few ( I can not think of any off hand ) non-self-feeding or otherwise able to digest but not eating pre-adult Pigeons who did not accept the gestures and subsequent Poppa-Hand-Beak Feedings.

Done badly, wrongly, probably most would reject it.

This has to be done in harmony with their Natural History - it is something one invtes them to consider by offering it in their terms.




> I can see how a starving bird might be trained to accept food this way, but the ones I take in are usually very ill and can't be deprived of their food. I am bit unsure of how to train them to accept my hand, or even a syringe, without using food deprivation?




The ones I get in, when I feel their digestive system is alright for it, we move throug the steps and are doing Poppa Hand Beak within five minutes of their getting here.


There is nothing about this which in any way whatever is about 'training' or 'starving' the Pigeon or Dove.

It is about communicating with them in a series and progression of deferential gestures, in their terms, which signal an offer to 'adopt' them, and to Water them, and Feed them.


When offered correctly, they understand the gesture, and, enthusiastically accept.

This can be done in about ten seconds.

Where, one begins then with Watering them.


If there are reasons to suspect the Pigeon or Dove's digestive System or Throat can not safely handle Seeds, then one goes throug all the same steps, and, only guides them to drink, instead, and, then, at some point, gently Tube Feeds them.

If even the Drinkiong of Water is felt to be unsafe, then one goes through the gestures and then Tubes in rehydration solutions, later Formula, and so on.

It is about working with them in terms they understand and which are part of their Natural History...so they feel understood, accepted in terms they understand, and, so they can feel happy and easy with things and not be worried or put off or anxuous or freightened.

And, the 'Hand Beak' itself, allows one to generously feed them quickly, in an easy and effective manner which they enjoy.


As they learn to peck and self feed, one allows either -premeasured unsupervised Seed access, or supervised Pecking, and, one still does the 'Hand Beak' till they decide to leave it off.


This way they get the attentions and deferences they otherwise might miss and be lacking...and, they grow up perfectly, without needyness from things missed or omitted or done wrong, and, they decide gracefully when they are grown up enough to leave it off, and there are no 'weaning' issues or problems or needyness, since the kind of Time and quality ( in their terms ) of attention one has spent with them, was is in keeping with what Poppa Pigeon would have done, if possibly a little more even than he would generally have.

Feed them, preen them after feed time, cuddle them and have Lap Naps and so on, offer lots of praise and compliments for them in general and for things they are learning...


They can learn to self feed at two weeks for that matter, and that is fine, so long as one limits their intake in that context, and, still feeds them by Hand till they elect to leave it off.

Like that...


But I digress a little - as the primary intent is of having an effecient Method for feeding ANY Pigeon or Dove who for being able to handle Seeds alright digestive system wise, for whatever reason, can not feed themselves.

This includes PPMV Pigeons and Doves of al ages, injured Adults of any age from young adult to very old age, and, the young.

Not every Adult who can not self feed will accept the invitation to feed them...but, those who do, do, and it is a great saving of time and trouble then when they do, since we can feed them generously and fast, in a way which affirms to them, that they are safe, cared for, cared about, and, which they are happy with.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the explanations Quazar & Phil, They are much appreciated! 

Perhaps the technique would work better if I taught the pigeons to associate me with food, instead leaving their food in the cage? I can see that it wouldn't take them long to eat from my hand if they felt it was their food source.

This little guy is eating really well now on his own. I think he just needed to be around other pigeons to learn how & what to eat & now he's ok eating alone. I'll still put outside for bit today to be with in his cage, he seems to get excited and encouraged by their company.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

good to hear hes eating well and gets excited around the other birds, thats the exact response you want from him, and everything you have done so far is more or less the standard soft release regimen. 
Do the other birds accept him & eat near his cage ok ?
Once he is flying well, still put him out in the cage, but after a few mins, clap your hands to make the other birds fly, that way he will learn the danger signals & their reactions to danger, and hopefully when time for release, he will copy them and go with them.
Its always nice to have them eating out of your hand, but sometimes that does make them a bit too trusting to other humans, who sadly may not nessesarilly treat them the same way.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Quazar,

I must admit that I don't know if he'll be released, but I am trying to do everything to give him a chance at being wild. If it were up to me, every bird I nurse back to health would live in my house and never have to be sick, or scared, or vulnerable ever again. They'd be well nourished, have companions, and live many years in great health. But when I see them out there again after a release, doing pigeon things like flying high in the sky and choosing a mate of their own, getting cuddled, and being free, then I sometimes feel that I can't place a value on that. And maybe I have no right to. Maybe the value of a life isn't measured in the years it lived, but in moments it loved being alive? I feel at a loss to measure these kinds of things.

I think this little one will be ok with the flock, and he'll learn and be accepted. But he'll be unsafe & exposed to some horrible diseases. These decisions are hard, aren't they? In the end I'll let him choose, i guess.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

it is difficult at times, knowing that they are going to run in to all sorts of dangers, especially as we cant really teach them what not to do etc. 
All we can do is prepare them the best we can so that they are in better health to face and fight off whatever nature throws at them, that in itself does give them a better start, and those that dont go too far often come back when they need help again.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thats true Quazar; I've had one pigeon in twice, and the second time he came right up to my back door, fluffed up and very sick, and he waited for me to open up the back door for him to come inside. They can be so smart can't they?

Quazar what age do you normally release the young ones that you take in?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Thats true Quazar; I've had one pigeon in twice, and the second time he came right up to my back door, fluffed up and very sick, and he waited for me to open up the back door for him to come inside. They can be so smart can't they?
> 
> Quazar what age do you normally release the young ones that you take in?


To be honest, I still really cant judge the age of a youngster very well.
Once they are flying and landing with confidence, and eating and drinking on their own, then I try and start them on a "soft release" routine over a period of several days. I dont really like to keep them long as at such a young age they can become too bonded and that wont help them in their feral life.
Only one i've failed to release is Cheeky, hes the youngest one Ive had, and is still smaller than some of the others i've found. He just does not want to go lol.
I did release one a bit earlier than I normally would have liked, but that was because he was being a bully to Cheeky and I was really needing the space for another one.
Ive had about 8 different ones so far since April, six of which still hang around with the flock where I release them, and come to feed when I'm soft release training others, although they have def reverted to their feral instincts.


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## jony ortega (Jul 4, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> 5 weeks would not be flying yet or on it's own yet, I do not think...
> 
> Can you post some Images?
> 
> ...


my pigeons flew 4 weeks old which its strange and started eating seeds at 3 week so far i ve had 3 babies and its been the same for all


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

jony ortega said:


> my pigeons flew 4 weeks old which its strange and started eating seeds at 3 week so far i ve had 3 babies and its been the same for all


Yep, I'd agree. Pigeons fledge around 35 days old and can do some flying before then, from the feral youngsters I've observed.


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## FrillbackLover (Mar 18, 2011)

lol bella a pigeon is crushing on u


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the extra info, guys, and also for encouraging me to take him in. Now that I've had him with me for a bit, I can hardly believe I considered leaving him `out there' when he was so small. He's only just learning to coo & he hasn't yet grown into his beak.

I have him with two other pigeons at the moment. He's a very sweet little bird, I just love him. I've called him `Squee'.


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