# Help Needed Desperately!



## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I've recently rescued a baby dove and I could really use some help on how to raise it (it's mother was eaten by a cat).It's been with me for a few days. I live in saudi arabia, and it's really difficult to get hold of a good vet here and i 've never, ever had birds as pets so i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I CAN DO! 

I think the baby dove is about 20 days old. It has wings which it flaps around quite often whilst walking. It's quite active until it is fed, whereupon it falls asleep or just wants to sit quietly and kind of doze off on my lap. Is that a problem?

I have been feeding it really mashed lentils until yesterday. yesterday, i switched to mashed peas. what else can i feed it?

My baby dove's poop is kind of light green. I've looked it up and found that that was normal, but I found that foam or bubbles in poop is a cause of concern. Is that true? If so, is even a single bubble found in the poop a sign of some illness?

My baby dove loves sleeping with me. It snuggles in with me, and kind of burrows its head into my stomach and sleeps and sleeps and sleeps.Is that another bad sign?

In addition,how do I clean my dove? My mum thinks washing it will give it a cold. What do I do? The area under its neck has gotten kind of sticky with mashed lentils.

AND: how do i know if it has Cankers? And if it does, how do i treat it? 

lastly: how warm should the place I keep my dove in be? In saudi arabia, it's kind of hot all the time, so is there any need to place some form of heater next to its sleeping box?

PLEASE HELP!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Do you know what sort of dove it is?

I think that at 20 days old it is old enough to be without supplementary heat.

Baby pigeons and doves receive very small amounts of trichomonads (the organism that causes canker) from their parents when they are being crop fed, this helps them build up an immunity. The trichomonads can cause infection if there is an overburden of them, or when a bird is stressed. The clinical signs of infection would appear after six days and would normally show as yellow growths in the mouth...they can also get infected through the navel or through the cloaca while they are in the nest, in which case you would feel a hard lumps in those areas.

At 20 days most doves would start to be weaned, if you offer thim very small seed, scatter it around him, he should start to pick it up.

If people keep chickens where you are you might be able to get some chick starter crumbs, these can be soaked in hot (but not boiling) water for half an hours and would probably be better than just lentils. Polenta is also a good starter food. How much are you feeding it and how often? How much does it weigh?

I am not certain about the sleeping, the last dove I had would just sit quietly on a shelf after eating. I will leave others to advise on that.

Try washing the lentils off with warm water with a little salt dissolved in it. otherwise it will build up and harden and he will lose feathering.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi tibby...
I think you've been feeding the baby just right. Just to be clear...do you have a dove or a pigeon. I ask because some people call pigeons doves.
It would be great if you post a picture os the bird and also a picture of the poop you are worried about.
You can clean the baby with a warm damp cloth. The baby may even enjoy a bath in a shallow dish of warm water.
If the bird is fully feathered, you don't need to worry about providing extra heat.
We can deal with your concern about canker after we see a picture of the bird and the bird's poop.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

thank you very, very much for your quick reply!
actually, i have no idea what sort of dove it is.if i post a picture of it, would you be able to identify it? 
i scattered some sesame seeds around the baby dove today. It picked a seed up but dropped it three times so i didnt try again.what other types of seed can i feed it? are bird pellets soaked in water fine? 

Again, thank you very much for your help.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I'll try to post pictures of its poop as soon as I can, and of the baby dove/pigeon as well. It's sleeping now as its 2 am here. 

thanks again


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

here are pictures of my baby dove/ pigeon. i hope you can identify them. it doesnt sit still long enough for me to take a proper picture!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Well, it is a dove....but you have several out there and at that age they are hard to identify because they haven't developed their adult markings. It is probably quite a common dove out there...can you describe the parents, did they have any patterns on their wings or breast? Did they have a neck band? Do you know what their call sounds like? Can you tell us which your nearest city is? (some doves are common only in some areas of Saudi Arabia.

I am sorry that I sort of assumed you would know the species...because I am a pigeon and dove lover I take an interest in any I see, but before I rescued a pigeon I hadn't even noticed our one common dove in the UK, not only would I have been unable to describe it but I didn't even know it existed! All I was aware of were city pigeons.

Most doves (but not all) are granivorous and fairly indifferent to green peas, if you can get your hands on some very small bird seed then offer him that, he might start to peck at it.

Cynthia


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

He really does look happy and well fed. I would give him some small seed mix-parakeet, finch-until you can find a good dove mix. Put it in a small bowl and "peck" at it with your fingers and he'll get the idea eventually. Also, put a small bowl of water out with a few drops of apple cider vinegar in it and poke his beak in there a few times. Keep them in the same place so he knows where to find it.
If the warm wash cloth doesn't get the dried food off, you can dip his body in a sink of slightly warm water, wrap him in a towel with his head out and hold him close till he's warm and dry! Best of luck! Looks great!


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Thank you all very much for your advice.

Feefo- I didnt really notice much about the mother dove until I noticed that it was dead. I know, i'm an idiot. But from what little i saw, it was one of those brown doves found all over the city. I live in Riyadh in saudi arabia and i only see brown doves and a few gray ones. it didnt have any bands around its neck, though. That's all I can tell you. I know what their call sounds like but i dont know how to explain it properly. its kind of a oo-oo-ooo-oo thing they keep on repeating. extremely sorry for the poor description. Also, my dove has had a really positive response to the green peas! and not a positive response to the sesame seeds  it can barely hold the seed in its beak long enough to swallow it.

there are two other things that i worry about. The shape of its beak- it can close its beak properly on one side only! and its kind of left open on the other side (you can see it in the picture). i tried to see if it has some yellow growth in its throat but all i saw was pink. it doesnt allow me to keep its beak open long enough to check it out properly! it keeps on flapping its wings! it also has a bump/lump at the corner of its beak, on the same side which is left open. it doesnt look yellow or dangerous. Actually, it looks like a (black?)pimple.

and the other problem- i think i saw thin, watery-like liquid from its nose. i wiped it away and i havent seen it again, but is it bad news? 

i know i sound like a worry wart (im losing sleep over this), but the only reason im worried is because of a lack of bird vets here.

Thank you all again for your help.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Is it this one? The laughing dove, also known as "Little Brown Dove", Palm Dove.....Senegal dove?

Little Brown Dove

Laughing Doves eat grass, seeds, grains, other vegetation and small insects. They are fairly terrestrial, foraging on the ground in grasslands and cultivation. They are not particularly gregarious, and are usually alone, or in pairs: Laughing Dove

I would worry about the pimple if it is keeping the mouth open...but the only doves I have experience of are collared doves and I would really prefer that someone with experience of these doves was able to advise. I have e-mailed our member plamenh, I think he has experience of hand raising baby senegals.

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

YES!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the one! So its called the laughing dove? Thanks for the info.
I appreciate it. I do hope Plamneh replies soon.

Again, thank you.

tibby


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is another thread about hand rearing a senegal dove...I don't know how it eneded, perhaps you could contact the thread poster? That dove had lumps around his eyes...


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=43945&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Okay, no. my baby doves lumps are not yellow or so dangerous looking. its just a bumpy thing at the corner of its beak. 

by the way, how does a dove look when it wants to vomit? and how do i know dove vomit from dove poop?

thanks,
Tibby


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi Tibby,
You are doing well with this youngster. Best is to use parrot baby formula to feed, but I don’t know what is available in Saudi Arabia. I would use mixed seeds (grind them in coffee grinder) and soak in warm water. You will have porridge to feed your dove. Give it to her slightly warmer than your body temperature. She should eat about 1~2 teaspoons of this mix twice a day. Lentils and peas work too, but will produce soft green poop with bubbles. You can try dry seeds to, just leave them in small dish or scatter them on cage floor. She will become more and more interested in eating alone at this age.
Do not bath your dove. Senegals are using dust to bath, not water. You can use cloth dipped in warm water to wipe her breast after feeding. 
It is normal for baby doves to sleep after feeding; they usually stay motionless and take a quick nap repeatedly. 
Lumps on the corners of the beak are soft baby beak parts nothing unusual; they will disappear as baby grows.
When vomiting, dove shakes head downwards. Vomit looks the way food does, as it is non-digested food.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Plamen! That was very informative. It makes all the difference to get input from someone with hands-on experience. 

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Thank you very much, Plamen. That actually helped a lot! I was worried about the lumps. Thank God. I dont have to lose sleep over that anymore. 

As for its feeding- can I give it peas in the morning and give it mixed seeds in 
the evening? Or do I have to feed it the same thing throughout the day and then feed it something else the next day? Will it make the baby sick if I vary its diet regularly? Also do I have to feed it porridge everyday? Because the baby doesnt like liquid-y food anymore.

Thank you for your help.

Tibby


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I dont know if i should be concerned or not, but my baby dove looks like it has difficulty opening one of its eyes, its right eye. It does open it, but closes it after a few seconds, while the other eye remains open. The eye doesnt look swollen or red.

Also, the baby dove keeps acting strange after 12 for the last two nights. It lifts its neck high and remains standing until i pick it up and rest it in my lap.is it because its been eating too much or something like that?

tibby


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

I would make sure your baby is hydrated enough. Closed eyelids are sign of dehydration. Get cage or box and keep it there. It is not good to sleep i your lap as birds need 12 hours uninterupted sleep at night. Untill recovers in full, handle baby only during the feeding hours.


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## simoneg (Oct 24, 2009)

Hope your dove is doing OK, I have done the same thing last year, you can read about my experience and it may help you a little. God bless you for helping this bird.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Thank you for your well wishes, Simone.

Well, I couldn't help it anymore & took baby to a vet. He confirmed that baby had canker's & prescribed a 2 week course of Amoxicillin, which I've already started. Charis just told me that its not the right medication. I want to bang my head against a wall & die. Any advice about the Canker?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Tibby


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Get back to the vet as soon as you can and request Metronidazole. he might prescribe this without you having to make an appointement. If there are any pigeon suppliers near you they might have Spartrix (Carnidazole).

Both medications are effective against canker and can be used together for serious infections.

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I told her in when she emailed me that she needs metronidazole.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tibby...you have all the information you need about medications from us and so now, you need to get the correct one to treat your precious dove. The amoxicillin may help any secondary infection the dove may have but you must get metronidazole [flagyl].
I also think it may be less confusing to you and us, to continue any more discussion here, on the forum.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Was she able to get the Metronidazole, I wonder?


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Jay3- Yes, the vet agreed to give me the metronidazole, Thank God. He asked me to continue the amoxycillin as well, because of her eye and respiratory infection.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad you were able to get it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Tibby dovelover e-mailed me this morning about the Metronidazole.

I have copied and pasted the pm and my reply here for information and so that my calculations cane be checked:

_Feefo,

As I said, the vet has agreed to give me metronidazole, but he hasn't actually given it to me yet.When I called him, he was a bit hesitant when I mentioned if he could prescribe metronidazole, like he'd never heard of using metronidazole to treat Canker.The vet removed all the Canker Baby had in her mouth (on the sides) manually. But now its growing back! And fast! 
I have to take some action now or Baby's going to die
I have metronidazole syrup at home.It's a 120 mL suspension.On the side of the box it says: "Each 5 mL contains Metronidazole (as benzoate) BP- 200 mg". Do you think you could tell me how much metronidazole I need to give a Baby dove weighing approximately 50 grams without it having any side effects on her CNS and curing her of all her canker?

Please help.
Tibby_


_I have used the drug chart that we have on this forum to calculate the dosage, I make it 0.1 ml once a day. That is 1/10 of a 1ml syringe, which is about *2 drops*.

I have settled for the once a day dose because it is less stressful and hopefully the higer dose will start to work quicker.

The dosage on the forum's drug chart is 40-100mgs per kilo OID (Once daily)- 14 days. I would go for the higher end of the recommended dose.

The dove weighs 50mg which is 1/20th of a kilo, therefore would need 1/20th of the dose: *2 - 5 mg once a day*.

5ml of the suspension = 200 mg.

1ml of the supension = 40 mg

0.1 ml = 4mg_

I used the old formulary because as the vet said he had never heard of metronidazole being used for canker I thought it unlikely that trich in that part of the world had developed resistance. Even in the UK, the old dosage works fine. 

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Feefo,

Thank you very much again. I don't think I'll need the syrup. I mean, I got baby the human medication Metronidazole, so if it runs out I'll get it again. There is no shortage of human resources here. People love themselves too much here. 

Is it true that Baby's tongue should be at the bottom when I feed her any liquid-y thing? Someone told me there's a hole under baby's tongue which leads to her trachea. And I get scared too, because everytime I give her amoxicillin and she sneezes 4 times, atleast.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Stick to the syrup, two drops once a day! Unlees, of course, it is out of date.

That is what most of us use for pigeons, only resorting to human medicines, which are a much stronger concentration, when there is no alternative. When we use human medicines it is much difficult to measure and to administer the very small dose needed for a bird. 

When you open a pigeon (or dove)'s mouth you will see that the tongue is a triangular shape and there is a hole at the base. That is the trachea. The oesophagus is right at the back, like a big cavernous hole. But I find it safer to put the medicine one drop at a time at the very front of the lower beak, allowing the bird to swallow it naturally.

So unless the syrup is out of date, use that.

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

feefo,

im sorry. i meant you dont need to send me the medication, like you offered. the syrup i got baby, by the way, IS human medication. Is that a problem?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Sorry, no...it is OK at that concentration. What what I think of as as human medication is 500 mg tablets because that is all I have come across! 

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Im going to feed baby the medicine now. keep your fingers crossed and please pray for her, everyone.

Tibby


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I was just wondering: I remember the time I was taking the metronidazole 500mg tablets. Dehydrated me like crazy and gave me heartburn. How do I know if it is affecting baby like it did me? I mean, will it dehydrate her too? And baby's still on the Amoxicillin course for her eye. I hope that doesnt cause a problem with the metronidazole course.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Amoxicillin and Metronidazole can be given at the same time. This is from Nooti's drug chart (Nooti is an experienced wildlife rescuer that keeps pigeons):

_METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl, Torgyl, Stormogyl)

Dose 20-50 mgs per kilo BID or 40-100mgs per kilo OID (Once daily)- 14 days. 

In very rare cases, liver damage can be caused by prolonged use over 14 days - but it is very rare and one must balance the risks.
If maintained for 14 days or more it is highly effective against a severe infection of trichomonas gallinae and in preventing an inside recurrence- (not reinfection from an outside source, ie another bird).
Used for anaerobic, (flushing deep wounds), and protozoal infections. *Can be given concurrently with Amoxy *and Trim Sulphas._

I have never had a pigeon get dehydrated wit metronidazole, but make water available at all the times. The bottom line is that without the metronidazole she would certainly die.

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Well, baby seems to be responding well to the Metronidazole, Thank God. Her sniffles seem to be gone. The only thing is that her eye looks scary now. The swelling has come down, but now the red in her eyelids is turning yellowish green. She hates opening her eye and just rubs it against her wing. The vet just asked me to continue with the Amoxicillin and then he'll see where it goes.
But lord, does she poop a lot. I think she poops every 15 minutes and she doesn't even care where she poops. She decided to poop on my shoulder the other day and on my sister's hair. 
She's only active at the crack of dawn, squeaking her heart out to be fed and then she's awake until 12 pm. After that, she doses on and off and after 6 pm she sleeps like the dead. Is that even normal?
She eats properly but I cant get her weight to go up! It's stubbornly stuck at 50-60 grams. She absolutely refuses to eat from the floor of her cage or from a dish. She only wants to be handfed. And she hates drinking water with a passion.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is good news. Do you have a homeopathic shop there? Apparently thay can make you up a tincture of euphrasia to bathe the eye. Have you tried colloidal silver?

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Feefo,

No, there aren't any homeopathy shops here. They are banned/ forbidden (long story, I don't even know the whole of it). And I haven't tried colloidal silver yet because the vet said the antibiotic would be enough for the eye. I think it worked 50-50. The swelling and the redness have reduced but now she has a red pimply thing at the corner of her eye. And she keeps on rubbing her eye on her wings. I attached some pictures. (Her beak looks distorted in the last picture) Does it look dangerous? 
Other than the eye thing, she's doing dandy. Her poops are fine, white urates. Squeaks at the top of her voice. Still have to forcefeed her water, though. 
Can you tell me when she is going to start growing feathers under her wings? Also, I don't think she'll ever be able to survive in the wild. She sleeps on my bed, under a blanket. And she flaps around when I try to get her back to her nest. I don't think that's even normal dove behaviour.

Thanks,
Tibby


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

She's precious!!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

She is really beautiful! I really don't know what to advise, because I have no experience of Little Brown Doves and don't know what diseases are prevalent among doves out there. But if you can get some colloidal silver it might help and it would do no harm.

If you can keep her, please do. We have a pet collared dove called Poppet, we adopted her after another member hand raised her and she is a little darling!

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I will _so_ keep her if she wants to stay and mum's not letting her go anywhere in the near future. It seems that she loves baby even more than she loves me.  Baby has just grown some new white tail feathers and she was pecking at the ground today. She doesn't, however, eat from the ground when we actually put the food there. She just pecks at nothing, or so it seems. I think her eye hurts quite a bit so I'll have to, have to get the colloidal silver.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Offer Water which is close to Body Temperature...softly guide her Beak into it, keeping your fingertips on her Beak as you do so, and she will gladly drink.


Glad to hear of all the poops!


Untill they are quite a bit older, they truely wish to be fed, and, that is what we should always do - feed them as they wish to be fed, and, as they grow up, they will make the transitions from it just fine, as thay mature.

You should be able to obtain an Opthamological Antibiotic Ointment ( ie: especially for Eyes ) though usually this requires a prescription.

I have found it very good for Eye injuries and Eye infection issues...and it soothes the Eye also, which is nice...and they tend to Wing-rub less, or not at all then also.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I know I sound obsessed about the poops. Can't help it. Someone told me poops are really important in determining whether the bird is healthy or not.  The opthamological antibiotic ointment- is the normal human one going to be fine? Or should I try to get one made especially for doves? 

I'll try the water feeding method you suggested today! Thanks for mentioning it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

> The opthamological antibiotic ointment- is the normal human one going to be fine? Or should I try to get one made especially for doves?



They are all the same...the same ones are used for all Species of Animals.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

That is one cute little dove! Hope all goes well.

Larry


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Thank you, Larry. I hope everything works out as well. 
Everyone on this forum has been really, really helpful. I'm really thankful to them.Thank God I found this forum. I'll keep on posting baby's developments.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Baby is changing her sleeping and eating patterns now. She now eats at 7 30 from her usual 6 o'clock time and she refuses to have really mashed up stuff, she likes swallowing big things now! And she's decided that my bed is more comfortable than her nest. She knows how to fly out of her box now. Thank God, her eyes seem better.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Again, I don't know if I should be worried or not. I have read almost anywhere that if a bird stops squeaking, it's a sign of impending doom 
Baby eats more than usual, drinks water voluntarily now, follows mum around the house everywhere and is learning to fly short distances. There's no new yellow growth in her mouth from what I can see. the only problem is that she's stopped squeaking. Do I need to take her to the vet again? I would appreciate any advice.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Perhaps she is old enough to stop squeaking?

Cynthia


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Ah, so there is a period when she will stop squeaking. She's one month and 2- 3 weeks now, I'm guessing. So when does she start making the ooo-ooo noise? Do I start feeding her grit now?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

If Baby is anything like Mr. Squeaks, she will be a "croaker" before she gets her big bird voice!! Sounds like she will be a'croakin' soon! 

When Squeaks first started "croaking," I couldn't help but burst out laughing! He sounded sooooo strange!

We are sending ALL OUR BEST TO BABY WITH LOVE AND HUGS!

Shi with MR. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone/Rae Charles


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Thank you,MR. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone/Rae Charles . I'm eagerly awaiting her first croak. 

Unfortunately (again!!!!!!!!), Baby is refusing to eat her peas now. She only wants to drink water with honey and turns away from the peas. Tried mustard seeds. Baby hates them.

I'm worried because I'm 6000 miles away from her right now and I've left her with mum. Mum's been taking really good care of her,but then she called last night saying that Baby doesn't eat properly. And today morning she said Baby doesn't eat at all. Mum's checked down her throat- all pink. She said Baby's not even lethargic. She jumps around as usual and poops normal. But she only wants to drink water! Does baby need to visit the vet again?


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

Is the metronidazole affecting her? Because she just drank a whole lot of water (!) and just pecked once or twice at her food. Mum had to open her little beak and put little balls of mashed peas in. She's full now and sleeping. She's been on Metronidazole for a total of 9 days. Her course ends on 1st June. Do I continue or stop?

(I must be the member with the most idiotic questions on this forum. I am so, SO very SORRY TO KEEP ON BOTHERING YOU NICE PEOPLE WITH MY PROBLEMS. And sorry for being such a worry-wart.)

Tibby


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

They do need to drink Water quite a few times a day...especially in arid climes...

If they are pooping out Water, they either drank more than they needed out of enthusiasm, or, are trying to flush their system because of an illness.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> (I must be the member with the most idiotic questions on this forum. I am so, SO very SORRY TO KEEP ON BOTHERING YOU NICE PEOPLE WITH MY PROBLEMS. And sorry for being such a worry-wart.)


You haven't asked any idiotic questions! It is much better to worry and ask than miss something vital.

Can you just confirm how much metronidazole you are giving?


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I've been giving her the dose you asked me to give her- 1/10th of a 1 ml syringe i.e. about 2 drops. She's been acting wonky for the last two days. And I've just received a call from mum saying that she's breathing a bit fast and she's vomitted near her nest. She's called the vet but he said he can only be there by 11, which is basically 2 and a half hours away!!!!!!! My brains going to burst from worrying. There's no canker anywhere near her throat, mum checked yesterday in broad daylight. I don't know what else she can have.


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## tibby-dovelover (May 7, 2010)

I don't think baby has very long to live. 11's a long time away. Mum said she might not make it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

What was the 'green' material, seen in the images in Post No. 6?


What has her diet been since?


Has she been eating small whole Seeds on her own?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> What was the 'green' material, seen in the images in Post No. 6?
> 
> 
> What has her diet been since?
> ...


Phil, I think it was mashed peas.


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