# Pigeon acting goofy



## woodward (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm new to this forum and also new to raising pigeons. I have 2 white homers and 5 grey-blue pets.
Today I went to my coop and one of my white pigeons was on the ground acting weird, He kept turning his head around and upside down as if he was trying to loosen it up he also kept turning to one side, and doesn't fly. I can't tell if he isn't eating or drinking yet. 
Does anyone have any ideas of what this could be. He hasn't be around any other stray birds, or near other animals where he could have picked up any virus.
Please help
Theresa


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Pmv ?*

Hello Theresa,

Were the birds vaccinated for PMV ? What types of health programs do you have in place ? It sounds like it could be PMV, I am not a vet, but lets hope it is not.

Symptoms of the disease:
The initial signs of paramyxovirosis are increased water intake combined with reduced feed consumption, emaciation and diarrhoea-like faeces due to a pathogenic increase in fluid excretion (= polyuria: puddles containing floating particles of faeces are formed in the loft). This is typically followed by uni- or bilateral paralysis of the legs, timidity, torsion of the neck, twisting movements of the body, overturning and walking backwards. Most pigeons die.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*Welcome to Pigeons.com Theresa*



woodward said:


> I'm new to this forum and also new to raising pigeons. I have 2 white homers and 5 grey-blue pets.
> Today I went to my coop and one of my white pigeons was on the ground acting weird, He kept turning his head around and upside down as if he was trying to loosen it up he also kept turning to one side, and doesn't fly. I can't tell if he isn't eating or drinking yet.
> Does anyone have any ideas of what this could be. He hasn't be around any other stray birds, or near other animals where he could have picked up any virus.
> Please help
> Theresa


Hi Theresa,
* I would suggest isolating this bird from the others, immediately. 
Place him on a towel lined heating pad, set on low in a carrier & place the carrier in a warm, quite dark area. 
* I would also suggest placing seed in a deep dish, in the event he begins having problems eating. 
* It's imperative that he remains hydrated. If you don't think he's drinking on his own, I would administer fluids via an eye dropper. Unless you are familiar with tubing fluids, the eye dropper is the safest method.

It's a possibility that your pij has developed PMV. This is a pigeon related virus that affects the central nervous system & is contagious among pigeons. 

By isolating him, you can observe his behavior more closely & as a precaution protect your other birds until you have figured out exactly what is going on.

Here are a few other PMV symptoms:
* Walking in circles or backwards
* Attempting to eat to no avail
* 'Star gazing', turning the head upside down.
* Seizure appearing behavior

Please do keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*PMV pijjies*

*Most pigeons die.*
Unfortunately, the consensus *used* to be that a PMV pigeon was pretty much doomed. 
Fortunately, through hands on education, Cynthia (cyro51), myself & a few others have discovered that myth is not necessarily true.

Given the proper living enviornment & care, we have found that PMV pigeons have a good chance at living a normal life.  

Cindy


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## woodward (Mar 12, 2005)

*Goofy Pigeon update*

I have just come back from the farm, and I have brought the pigeon home with me. He looks very healthy, clear eyed, just pooped and it is formed and looks normal. But he is still setting with his head almost completely turned around, and or half way around so his eye is facing upwards. It is worse when he is disturbed, if disturbed it almost goes all the way around. I can pick him up and move it back to the right position, and it moves easily no stiffness, if he is just sitting there he seems to relax a little, and it seems as if it is almost normal. Not eating or drinking, or trying to fly, also he does not fight being in a box and out of the coop. nor did he fight when I picked him up. I dipped my finger in water and rubbed his beak with it but no trying on his account. 
As I purchased these birds in the fall, and just from someone that did not seem all that knowlegable I would venture to say that they had not been vaccinated unless they were done at a pet store. And that is only if the person that I purchased them from got them from a store. I never went into any detail with the man.. I just wanted to have some pigeons around my pet farm. So I wasn't too fussy about anything but the cost..
Thank-you again for any comments or suggestions
Theresa


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*But he is still setting with his head almost completely turned around, and or half way around so his eye is facing upwards. It is worse when he is disturbed, if disturbed it almost goes all the way around. I can pick him up and move it back to the right position, and it moves easily no stiffness, if he is just sitting there he seems to relax a little, and it seems as if it is almost normal*

Thanks for the update Theresa.
The symptoms do sound much like those of a PMV pij. Stress will enhance these symptoms.

Placing him in a warm, quite, dark area will help to keep his stress level low. 
Again, I would offer him a 'deep' dish of seeds. 
Make sure he gets fluids. Hydrate by hand if need be. 

Cynthia will be along later (she lives in the UK) to offer her experiences & suggestions. 

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

How is the pij doing Theresa?

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Theresa,

The symptom that yoiu describe is called "stargazing" and is a symptom of both PMV and paratyphoid, Just to be on th safe side I would give a course of Baytril as well as following the instructions for treating PMV.

This is a photo of my pigeon Feefo who had PMV:

Cynthia


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Pmv*



AZWhitefeather said:


> *Most pigeons die.*
> Unfortunately, the consensus *used* to be that a PMV pigeon was pretty much doomed.
> Fortunately, through hands on education, Cynthia (cyro51), myself & a few others have discovered that myth is not necessarily true.
> 
> ...


 I hope in this case I am wrong. My information comes from various vets and this link : http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html

I don't know what procedures or care, will change this %, I hope that there is new medical procedures that will cause a change in the medical community's way of thinking.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

AZWhitefeather said:


> *Most pigeons die.*
> Unfortunately, the consensus *used* to be that a PMV pigeon was pretty much doomed.
> Fortunately, through hands on education, Cynthia (cyro51), myself & a few others have discovered that myth is not necessarily true.
> 
> ...


Cindy,
Please provide the medical hands on education, my racing pigeon combine considers this to be of such importance, that they require a vaccination prior to any racing. If you have information to the contrary, this should be shared with the racing pigeon faternity. The "accepted" knowlege, of this virus infection, is those birds which survive are worthless as racers or breeders.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Theresa,

I don't know where Chevita get their facts from, perhaps as they are a drug company it is from laboratory experiments.

My own experience is from picking pigeons up from the street. I have nursed 10 pigeons through Paramyxovirus and they all recovered, so my mortality rate is nil. Naturally their suitability for racing or breeding was not a factor that I took into consideration, my only concern being their recovery.

In his book "Fit to Win" Dr Wim Peters states that mortality is between 0 - 5% with the mortality rate closely related to stress. He also says that mortality rates rise sharply if there is water deprivation.

The Boglin Marsh Racing Pigeon Fanciers Portal has an article on PMV which says that mortality depends on the strain but that most pigeons recover. This is what they have to say:

PARAMYXOVIRUS : Caused by a strain of P.M.V. 1 NEWCASTLE DISEASE A disease of which there are many strains and various degrees of virulence. Symptoms are many and varied, sometimes several together, other times singular. Watery faeces, slimy green/brown faeces, nervousness, lack of co-ordination, falling backwards, misjudging distance, fear of sudden noise, reaction to bright light, torsion of neck, complete twisting movement of neck, inability to pick up grain immediately etc.. NO CURE but recovery after nursing and convalescence after 10-14 weeks. Mortality / fatality rate dependant upon viral strain contracted. Some strains may kill within days but extremely rare. *Most strains result in recovery* and future immunity for the individual although some may demonstrate continued nervousness for up to two years. Parental immunity cannot be transferred to young so natural immunity is impossible. Some immune individuals may become susceptible once again after several years of none contact. The immune system rejects unused or unrequired defences periodically whilst updating its armoury. The disease has an incubation period of 8-12 weeks after which the symptoms begin to appear. During this period the pigeons are infective to others. The symptoms are actually the onset of recovery which takes another 8-14 weeks, plus further convalescence before the bird may be raced with confidence. Immunity is passed from immune parent to nestlings, however this immunity only lasts for 3 weeks. Youngsters should be vaccinated at 21-28 days old. Prevention is via vaccination for both young and old but, 14 days must be allowed for vaccination to become affective; immunity is not immediate and also builds and wanes over a period of ten months full effectiveness (not 12 months as many imagine) Not all pigeons contract Paramyxovirus, some are resistant, possibly due to having contracted a mild but unnoticed strain at some previous time. However this is not an argument for none vaccination. Experience of this disease is extremely distressing and annual preventative vaccination of all owned pigeons is to be desired. The disease may be spread as airborne, fancier borne or contact borne, so aviary prisoner stock are not exempt from risk! Vaccination is ineffective against the disease once the pigeon is in the stages of incubation of virus. Recovered birds do not remain as carriers of the present pigeon related strain of P.M.V. However virus do mutate so all information available may be subject to revision in future. 

I hope this helps.

Cynthia


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Pmv*

"Some strains may kill within days but extremely rare. Most strains result in recovery."

Let's, just hope you have one of the stains, that does not result in death. The lesson here, is that all pigeons should be vaccinated for PMV.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Cindy,
> Please provide the medical hands on education, my racing pigeon combine considers this to be of such importance, that they require a vaccination prior to any racing. If you have information to the contrary, this should be shared with the racing pigeon faternity. The "accepted" knowlege, of this virus infection, is those birds which survive are worthless as racers or breeders.


Hi Warren,
The fact that fanciers/breeders find those birds which survive PMV to be worthless as racers or breeders really has nothing to do with the statement in which I was addressing, & that was 'most PMV pigeons die'. 

If appropriate living conditions are provided, & the care that is needed to sustain a PMV pigeon is given, it is very likely they can, & many do, live a normal life. 

Case in point: I was presented a fancy pigeon, breed unknown, 5 months after he was rescued displaying PMV symptoms, e.g., nearly nonstop spasms/seizures, head turned upside down 99% of the time, circling in place, etc. Pij never uttered a peep, couldn't fly a lick & appeared unaware of his surroundings. Speaking to him would only induce another spasm.

I took him to a local avian vet. It was his consensus as well, that PMV pigeon don't survive.  
I asked if we could please try something to at least attempt to decrease the seizures. He agreed & suggested a course of Prednisone, thinking there may be some type of inflammation involved. 

Within two weeks of beginning this treatment Pij was standing upright more than upside down & his seizures began to decrease. Within a month he was symptom free. I took Pij back for a follow up appointment 6 weeks later & the vet was amazed at the transformation.

Today, Pij is the picture of health & lives life to it's fullest. He now coos nonstop & spends as much time as he can flying around in the AZ room.  
This is not to say Prednisone will work for every PMV pij, but it was a Godsend in our case. 

Pij's previous owner lost a great deal when he discarded that poor bird & I've gained so much.

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*The lesson here, is that all pigeons should be vaccinated for PMV*

Regarding loft pigeons, yes indeed, the fancier/breeder should most certainly be responsible & have their birds vaccinated. 
However, you have to remember, there are also those of us who care for feral pigeons & for obvious reasons, vaccinating them is not an option.  

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Progress*

Cindy,

My hat is off to you. I have been a victim of repeating the so called "facts". The lesson then is not to believe everything you hear or read. This proves that loving care, can be powerful medicine.

Working with ferals means you don't have the advantage of working within a closed system. Your dedication and love, has shown once again, not to give up hope. I am learning new stuff all the time. Thank you for your posts. I stand corrected.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*The lesson then is not to believe everything you hear or read.*
Hi Warren,
At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I believe what Chevita stated, 'most pigeons die' is probably true, however, I also believe the reason being is that some, not all, fanciers/breeders don't, or won't, taken the time to, 1) 'care' for a suspected PMV pigeon, *or* 2) adopt them out to one who *is* willing to care for them. 

Pij is a perfect example of this. He is obviously not a 'common' pigeon, was found flipping about someone's yard, was unable to fly a foot, so how did he get there? My guess is, someone dropped him off, thereby not giving a rats behind about his future. He is a beautiful pigeon, inside & out. One who hasn't seen him from the onset can't begin to imagine the transformation. The vibtrant personality that was tucked under those feathers, unable to be exposed, is now bigger than life. 

*This proves that loving care, can be powerful medicine.*
Most definitely! 

Cindy


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## woodward (Mar 12, 2005)

*Goofy acting Pigeon update*

So far he is holding up pretty good, he has tried to eat some, I have given him some water by dropper, and so far he is elimating ok, half runny- half formed. Still turning his neck around sometimes worse than others. Make a pigeon coo for the first time this AM. Starting to get friskier.


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## bklowe (Oct 21, 2003)

I have just picked up a feral pigeon from the SPCA, which is exhibiting the behavior you are discussing, I had another about a week or so ago that died within two days. I thought it might be west nile.
In reading this discussion .... I should provide warmth, quiet, low light and give fluids / provide seed. How much fluid per ?, and should I use lactoid ringer or just plain water.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

bklowe said:


> I have just picked up a feral pigeon from the SPCA, which is exhibiting the behavior you are discussing, I had another about a week or so ago that died within two days. I thought it might be west nile.
> In reading this discussion .... I should provide warmth, quiet, low light and give fluids / provide seed. How much fluid per ?, and should I use lactoid ringer or just plain water.


Hi Bruce,
So sorry to hear about the pij. Good thing is, he is in your care.  
I would recommend offering the Lactated Ringers for now.
If he is drinking on his own I would put some in a small dish. I'm not sure on how much, or at what intervals, if you are tubing the fluids. Terry or one of the more experienced will be able to assist with that.

I would place the seed in a deep dish, in the event he is having a hard time getting a hold of them. 

Sounds like you have things under control. Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## bklowe (Oct 21, 2003)

I have been syringe feeding water 3cc's every two hours. As I speak s/he is having violent seizures [ flopping all over the box ], I can wrap s/he in a towel rather snuggly and s/he will calm down for abit ???? This a very helpless feeling as I am sure you know.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

bklowe said:


> I have been syringe feeding water 3cc's every two hours. As I speak s/he is having violent seizures [ flopping all over the box ], I can wrap s/he in a towel rather snuggly and s/he will calm down for abit ???? This a very helpless feeling as I am sure you know.


Hi Bruce,
I know with Pij, it would break my heart when he would go into a seizure. 
I found picking him up as soon as I heard him thrash about, putting him against my chest & stroking his back would help. Within seconds I could feel him relax.  

Certainly every situation is different & I can't say this will work with your baby but it was a Godsent for Pij. The dr. prescribed Prednisone. You might want to run this by one of the vets you work with.

Prednisone 5 mg. tablets. 
Dissolve 1 tablet in 2.5 mls. of water. 
Give 2 drops orally once a day.

He was on this dosage for two weeks, then we began to decrease the dosage until he was no longer on it.
I realize this medication can have side affects, however we were quite fortunate & Pij didn't have any.

This is just a suggestion but worth considering.

Bless your sweet baby. 

Cindy


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## bklowe (Oct 21, 2003)

Thank you Cindy,
That is what I have done, however s/he looks to be going into respiratory distress. From what I have read here it must be PMV.... as I have baby's [ Mourning Doves ] in the house too, do you know if this virus is airborne ?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

bklowe said:


> Thank you Cindy,
> That is what I have done, however s/he looks to be going into respiratory distress. From what I have read here it must be PMV.... as I have baby's [ Mourning Doves ] in the house too, do you know if this virus is airborne ?


Don't quote me on this Bruce, but I have never read where a dove has acquired PMV. I believe it is only transferrable from pigeon to pigeon, however I would keep him isolated (in a separate room, if possible) from any other birds. 

I'm so sorry the little one is having such a time. 

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Bruce,

I think that doves are susceptible to PMV because they are pigeons. I found this in a DEFRA report: _Paramyxovirus 1 in wild pigeons: Pigeons and doves submitted for West Nile Virus surveillance are also examined for Paramyxovirus 1(PMV 1). PMV 1 was isolated on three occasions in 2003, from a woodpigeon, a collared dove and a feralpigeon. There was no reported mortality from these incidents and no associated mortality in domesticated species_

The virus is airborne on droplets (coughing sneezing) and on fecal dust. I would burn all poops and keep the pigeon in a separate room.

Feefo the Beautiful was prone to fits when stressed. She would calm down when handled but I think my prescence would trigger a fit in the first place. Put yiur pigeon somewhere quiet where you can observe her without her seeing you and see whether she has fits then.

I found that Bach Rescue Remedy in the drinking water reduced Feefo's fits. I also used the homeopathic remedy Hypericum A which had a beneficial effect.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for the heads up Cynthia.
Realizing the pigeon is in the dove family, I had never heard of, or witnessed, a 'dove' displaying PMV symptoms. 
It certainly does make sense that they would be suseptible though.

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cindy,

I have never seen a dove with PMV either, thank goodness, and I have seen plenty of pigeons affected. It is a risk rather than a certainty.

In the UK the feral pigeons tend to be physically closer to each other than doves are. The pigeons will climb over each other when there is a good meal, pick up food another pigeon has dropped, bathe together (and poop in the water) , roost together and even engage in beak to beak fighting. I think that is why the disease spreads so quickly among the pigeons while the doves are spared. 

I read that there is a PMV epidemic in Guernsey at the moment, there was no mention of any danger to doves or wood pigeons :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/4273957.stm

Cynthia


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## bklowe (Oct 21, 2003)

Thanks to all .... I talked with Ellen last night, at that point the pigeon could only be kept from thrashing about was to wrap it in a towel and hold her. Anyway Ellen suggested 2cc's of rice water [ soak rice in warm water for a while ] by syringe to provide carbohtdrates. I did so last night and she pulled through the night a bit calmer but still showing the same symtons. We decided to blend the rice and water to syringable liquid and give 2cc's every two hours ....hoping for the best.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Bruce,

I am very happy that the carbohydrates have been working out, I am even more happy that the little one is probably going to make it, you and your wife are doing a great service and your constant care and dedication with your little charge is whats working also.

Keep up the great work, you both are wonderful rehabbers,

Ellen


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## woodward (Mar 12, 2005)

*Goofy Pigeon ready to be reintroduced to flock*

I just wanted to give you a big Thank-you for all the suggestions, help, support and other info you gave me back on the beginning of March concerning my goofy acting Pigeon. I did all that you suggested and she is doing real good now, I am considering reintroducing her back into the flock shortly, every day I've been letting her out of her dark box and she is starting to exercise her wings and get her bearings back. Stress does bother her a little bit yet so I will monitor this area. Since the flock is still new to me I haven't let them out of their closed in area to fly free yet. So I feel that she should be able to take just the coop soon. 
Thanks again for your help
Theresa


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Happy For You*

Good for you and your little birdie. This was happy ending


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you for the update! 

I am glad she is feeling better. However, if she is inclined to have moments of stress where she can't control her head movements or falls over, please keep her away from the pigeon's bath because that could cause her to inhale water.  

Cynthia


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