# Trap doors to keep cats out ?



## FallenAnjel

I hope I can get some good answers. I, personally do not have pigeons, but my LL does and I'm sorry to say, that my LL doesn't have enough brains to think that there might be ALTERNATIVE ways to keep cats out of his coop besides a BB GUN !!!!!!!!!! >>mad<<

I am so livid and upset right now, I have been researching this for hours, because if he doesn't do something soon, I'm going to be moving out. (and I only moved here 4 months ago and told him I'm not going moving my son around and go thru all the rigors of moving all over again)

I have found a few videos on You Tube on how to build trap doors that allow pigeons in and out, but keep other animals out. Are these at all effective? Is there something else that can be done? They look like decent ideas. 

I have to say, if he doesn't have enough brains to think that there might be alternative ways to keep cats away from his pigeons, he shouldn't even HAVE pigeons !!! I've lost 3 cats to BB's, I know what it's like. 

Now, mind you, he didn't say he actually shoots them directly, he said he uses it to scare them. I don't have much faith in that statement. :0(

Thanks for any help/advice. I'm going to at least give him ideas, so there's a chance he may stop. If not, at least I did my part, and then I'll just move out. Then report him when I move out!

ps...here's some pics of the coop:
(i made them smaller in PB, but they're not smaller yet, I hope they are after I post!)


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## dogging_99

I built a Cat Trap here's the link:

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=IMG_1505.jpg

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=img_1436.jpg

The weight of a cat lifts an angle with holes for the bobbins and Cat can't go through the bobbins but a pigeon doesn't weigh enough to lock the bobbins. I had to make several weights out of lead filed pipe until I got the weight right.


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## Kalkbl

Now there is a outstanding Idea!
I think you should think of making them for sale, could be the whole setup with Bobs and all, Just make the hole in the loft and install the set up


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## Charis

Cats are the least of your troubles. It's easy to see how rodents can get into the loft via the type of screening used. Rodents can be just as deadly, if the pigeons inject food contaminated by their droppings. Not just that, rats will take their heads right off, eat young and eggs during the dark of night when the birds are night blind.
You kind of need some cats around to keep the rodents away.


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## Crazy Pete

Go to a farm store and buy a have a hart trap and relocate the cats befor he can shoot them. With any luck he will think he scared the cats off and you will not have to move.
Dave


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## FallenAnjel

dogging_99 said:


> I built a Cat Trap here's the link:
> 
> http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=IMG_1505.jpg
> 
> http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=img_1436.jpg
> 
> The weight of a cat lifts an angle with holes for the bobbins and Cat can't go through the bobbins but a pigeon doesn't weigh enough to lock the bobbins. I had to make several weights out of lead filed pipe until I got the weight right.


That looks cool, you don't happen to have a video of it in action do you ? He needs to see this in action, so he can at least partly understand it. 



Charis said:


> Cats are the least of your troubles. It's easy to see how rodents can get into the loft via the type of screening used. Rodents can be just as deadly, if the pigeons inject food contaminated by their droppings. Not just that, rats will take their heads right off, eat young and eggs during the dark of night when the birds are night blind.
> You kind of need some cats around to keep the rodents away.


Thanks Charis, I agree, but I don't think he'd be willing to "reason" that way. How much you wanna bet it WERE rodents that got in and he just ASSUMES it's the cats? I honestly wouldn't put it past him. I can bet if I ask him if he's ever thought of building a door that only pigeons can get in, he's prob. say something dumb like, "That wouldn't work" because he just seems like that type of guy. 

Sorry for sounding like I'm crucifying him already, but when someone tells me they try to HURT animals for their own selfishness, all respect is LOST.  He would now have to prove himself otherwise. It's now sickening to know I have to give this person a rent check every two weeks !!!


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## Skyeking

I'm so sorry to hear about this situation, and I probably won't be of much help.

These birds are just not safe with the kind of barrier that exists between them and the outside world,( nor do they seem safe with their present owner), they need to be removed to better housing until there current one is fixed/repaired. How many birds are there altogether?


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## Matt Bell

A note to the original poster, and to those that have blamed the rodents and not the cats, its very easy to tell which is doing it. Cats generally are still in the loft (I have got 3 in mine, not fun), they only kill the birds don't eat them. Also don't COMPLETELY blame the LL, there are leash laws for such things as these cats, blame THEIR owners. Call animal control, the cats will either be trapped, or their owners will receive a citation. When I do my part to keep my birds safe and cats still get in to kill them it blatantly pisses me off and I will do whatever it takes to keep my birds safe. Maybe something should be done to the cat owners that just dump them off and no longer look after them. I mean wow, if a pigeon person does that we are crucified. Sorry for the rant, but this type of thing absolutely pisses me off.


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## billyr70

I agree, the cat owners need a good swift kick in the you know what...


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## Guest

I think your coops should be closed up when you arent out there to supervise them while they are out and about so dont go blaming an open loft on the cats , but thats just my opinion as I have cats around here and raccoons which are worse and still when the loft is closed up nothing is getting in on my watch


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## Matt Bell

LokotaLoft said:


> I think your coops should be closed up when you arent out there to supervise them while they are out and about so dont go blaming an open loft on the cats , but thats just my opinion as I have cats around here and raccoons which are worse and still when the loft is closed up nothing is getting in on my watch


***** are only active at night, unless extremely sick so unless you got it open at night time you don't have a problem with *****. If the ***** are sick, they aren't looking for pigeons. What do you do on race days, say you have to take the kids to an event or something, close the loft so you lose the race? I highly doubt it.


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## JaxRacingLofts

*FallenAnjel*



FallenAnjel I hope I can get some good answers. I said:


> I totally miss read your post once I re-read it I realized my advice does'nt help you cause its not your birds being killed. Anyway tell your land lord to put a nozzle on his water hose and shoot the cats with that instead of with a d#%^ bb gun...thats just cruel and should be illegal. But if he refuses then just pay the pet deposit and rescue a shelter dog to "guard" his birds. Hope this idea helps you two work out your differences.


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## Guest

tell him to try building something like this 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7bucm6KJRw&feature=related
I see you found the other one


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## FallenAnjel

Thanks everyone for your great replies. I don't remember who posted what, so I'll answer whatever I can remember.

As for leash laws for cats, I have never heard of a leash law in Suffolk County, New York. There is no STATEWIDE leash law, only county and town laws. For dogs, yes, there is a leash law. I am a cat owner. Not here, because I left my 12 yr old cat w/ my ex because I needed a place to go and wanted the LL to see I was a good/clean person before I asked. She's indoor/outdoor now, but I would have to make her indoor. I didn't know he had the birds until after I moved in. 

I just talked w/ him today and right off he gets all defensive, like I'm hating on him or something. He said his birds are very expensive and they're racing pigeons. He has maybe 20 in there, from what I can see. He said he used to have about 150. How he had 150 in that little shed is beyond me, that just sounds cruel. He was gettin' PO'd, saying that he wouldn't let his birds go in other people's yards, so why should people let their cats roam free. As a cat owner, I can say, I do not like keeping my cats cooped up in a house. They are not by nature, meant to be "caged". And yes, I have lost one too many because of that, but at least they get to live the life they should. I did mention, that, if you have the birdss, and there are cats around, you do what you have to, to keep the birds safe, by way of trap doors and other things. We all live on this planet together, and just because humans are bigger does not make us better. HE has the attitude like, "I'm bigger , so I'm better, and if I don't like something, I get rid of it." I consider that a small minded attitude, but I guess small minded attitudes only come from not so bright people. 

All that being said, he said, he had all the problems with cats when he was trying to fly the babies. The babies can't fly yet, and they can't get away from the cats. So, if anyone has any ideas on that, that'd be great. I'm going to research it too. 

I do like the guard dog idea. He did mention that he is a dog person, but he doesn't have dogs because it wouldn't be fair to his tenants. (But I wouldn't mind at all) I'll have to tell him that. 

He actually said he is thinking of getting rid of the birds because he can't keep the cats from them, but I would hate to see him get rid of them. (Of course, it's not my fault he's not smart enough to realize there are millions of other people that have birds too and figure this stuff out every day). I'd be willing to help w/ anything, so we could all be happy.


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## Big T

He is old, and been living his way for years. He has his points and you have yours. problem is you both do not hear the other. His birds, his property, people should respect that. Cats do not understand that therefore it is the responsibility of the owners. Not going to happen because they are not in on the conversation you two are having. He feels his birds should be able to fly free, you feel cats are not meant to be caged. You are both right. You want him to fix it, he wants the cat owners to fix it. Once again you are both right, but not going to happen. 

Now let's focus on the BB gun since that is your main focus. Him using a BB gun gives him a personal stake in defense of his home and property. You see it as cruel to the cats. He see cats killing his birds as cruel. You both are right from your point of view.

If you want the man on your side you have to see it from his point. Let him know you understand why he is protecting his birds and respect it. This takes him off the defense and lets him know you both are on the same side. And you really are on his side even if the reasons are different. Why did you research and find this site if not. Now once he understands you want to help him protect his birds, let him know the BB gun isn't working because he cannot stay awake 24/7 to stand guard over his birds and he is still losing birds. Maybe we together can come up with ways to protect the birds when he isn't around. Show him this site. under the loft section different traps. Click on my name and look in my album under loft for pictures of my trap. Show him these things and offer to help. Offer to help feed them and be willing to release them and care for them when he is not at home. Also, let him know a dog would be a great help and as one of his tenants you would love to have one around as protection for you. Offer to help him care for the dog. You think it will take up too much of your time but it won't. Plus two things may happen if you work this issue from his side. One, he loses the BB gun but keeps more birds. Two, you make a friend out of a LL. 

Good Luck and God Bless,
Tony


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## Matt Bell

Thing is, she isn't on his side, she already admitted that. She thinks cats should roam free, well I have to disagree. Discovery Channel rated house cats THE DEADLIEST animal on Earth, they kill just for the sake of killing. I have had this conversation in my neck of the woods with cat owners they are all the same, want to let the cats run loose. Well, let them kill a couple of $500 racing pigeons and I had all I could stand, much rather pay the fine for killing the cat than replacing my birds over and over again. Then, what do ya know, there are leash laws, owners get their cats taken away, forced to pay for my birds that were killed AND they had to pay the court costs. Tell the LL to call the humane society and see what they say, of course that won't happen because the tenant is a cat person.


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## aaron110186

this is prob not going to be much use but plenty of 2ltr coke bottle take of the wrapper and fill with water leave them lying around the pen the sun reflects of the water and the cats hate it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just a though 


animals are for life not for target practice


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## Action

*Cats?*

I don't really understand the cats killing the birds! If they can get in the loft you need to fix it....... If your birds are on the ground----Be there to watch them. I just don't understand how cats can kill your birds unless the owner of the birds doesn't do his/hers job! Maybe being lazy?
Jack


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## Guest

Action said:


> I don't really understand the cats killing the birds! If they can get in the loft you need to fix it....... If your birds are on the ground----Be there to watch them. I just don't understand how cats can kill your birds unless the owner of the birds doesn't do his/hers job! Maybe being lazy?
> Jack


I agree  as I have said before I have wild cats here all the time and not once have I lost a bird to a cat here, but I also agree that running and electrical wire along the outside of your loft will keep cats from climbing up them too which would help greatly


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## Matt Bell

Action said:


> I don't really understand the cats killing the birds! If they can get in the loft you need to fix it....... If your birds are on the ground----Be there to watch them. I just don't understand how cats can kill your birds unless the owner of the birds doesn't do his/hers job! Maybe being lazy?
> Jack


I guess maybe I am guilty of trying to multi task...they make electric clocks for a reason, so people can race when they aren't home, now how can that be done without the trap open? Bottom line is this, if the birds are in the loft they should be safe regardless of who or what is outside. Now would you be angry if you left a window open in your house and some animal jumped in? How about if it destroyed everything in the house? Is it your fault for leaving the window open? If so does that mean that you wouldn't call police and expect something to be done? I highly doubt that.


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## Big T

Point is folks the owner did not ask us how to protect the birds from the cats, the tenant did. So we can rant all we want it is not going to fix the problem. And if you agree or disagree with the tenant's motive she still asked for help in helping the owner protect his birds. So let's stay focused on the task at hand and help. 

Tony


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## Matt Bell

I think she is trying to protect the cats, but I agree we did get off topic.


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## FallenAnjel

*Hello everyone, back again!*

Wow, thanks for all the great replies! I have another small problem w/ the birds, but I'll save that for a new thread so this one doesn't get confusing.

Everyone had excellent points and I agree w/ all of you in one way or another. Let me just reiterate my original post and my position in all this.

I am a tenant. My Landlord (LL for future reference) has pigeons. My LL stated back in May that he (used to?) use a BB gun to "scare" the neighbourhood cats away (they are not wild) because when he was trying to fly the babies the cats would get in the coop and kill/eat them. I am a cat person by default, but I love ALL animals. I am a firm believer in "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and that's what I planned on doing w/ these birds. I like birds too and I'm always willing to learn something new so I was willing to learn how to help these birds so they could still fly, nothing would get to the birds and they wouldn't be cooped up 24/7. 

That said, nothing ever came out of that one conversation with the LL, he mentioned he was thinking of getting rid of them because he didn't have the time to fly them anymore. That's better than keeping them locked up 24/7.

The LL's have gone to Florida for 2-3 months and the pigeons are gone, so either he got rid of them, or he brought them somewhere for the few months. 

As for what Matt Bell said, I'm not ONLY trying to protect the cats, I'm trying to HELP the birds as well. Like I said, I"m a cat person by default, but I love all animals and want the birds to be able to do what they do as well. Pigeons are not meant to be caged just as much as cats aren't. 

That said, thanks everyone for all your replies and responses and I'll know in a month or so whether he did get rid of the birds or not. I'll update then.


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## dod rennie

I have the same problem with our 4 cats I just stay outside till all the birds are in


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## Wayne Johnson

Here is a video from Australia to address this problem exactly. Take a look.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2217824.htm


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## sufiness

dogging_99 said:


> I built a Cat Trap here's the link:
> 
> http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=IMG_1505.jpg
> 
> http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/mmurphy99/Loft2/?action=view&current=img_1436.jpg
> 
> The weight of a cat lifts an angle with holes for the bobbins and Cat can't go through the bobbins but a pigeon doesn't weigh enough to lock the bobbins. I had to make several weights out of lead filed pipe until I got the weight right.


very nice ingenious idea!


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## crosbeem

From the pics the cats have easy access to the trap simply by climbing the wire or getting on the roof via a tree. Having a landing board that tips with the weight of the cat
is a good idea but this will not stop a cat from climbing on the roof either by the wire netting or via a tree.


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## Wayne Johnson

I dont think that the issue is the cat gettin to the trap but getting through the trap to the inside. The bobs lock when the weight of the cat tries to enter.


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## Sparky88

put orange peals around his loft cats hate that stuff!


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## spirit wings

Sparky88 said:


> put orange peals around his loft cats hate that stuff!


just to let you know if you don't get a relpy, the thread was started in 2010.


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## BobinOK

This is an interesting thread because I have two cats that are hunters. They go in and out of the house. When they catch a bird, all that is left are two wings and a tail. They eat the insides first, then the breasts and finally, they crack the head open. That might sound a little gross but my point is that they don't waste anything except the feet and feathers. When I first got my pigeons, the cats thought they were going to get a free meal but cats catch pigeons unless they are young and don't fly well or you have a bunch of clutter around that they can use to stalk.

Another reason cats struggle with pigeons is because cats don't have a lot of reserve energy. They are good for one stalk, one burst and if they miss, that's it. Time to take a break.

Finally, anyone that has had cats and I've had them for 50+ years knows that a BB gun doesn't do squat to a cat. A cat's hide is like leather. A BB will sting but the cat will be fine.

I like my cats and I like my pigeons. If the birds have a decent loft, the cats will quickly lose interest.


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## Quazar

BobinOK said:


> This is an interesting thread because I have two cats that are hunters. They go in and out of the house. When they catch a bird, all that is left are two wings and a tail. They eat the insides first, then the breasts and finally, they crack the head open. That might sound a little gross but my point is that they don't waste anything except the feet and feathers. When I first got my pigeons, the cats thought they were going to get a free meal but cats catch pigeons unless they are young and don't fly well or you have a bunch of clutter around that they can use to stalk.
> 
> Another reason cats struggle with pigeons is because cats don't have a lot of reserve energy. They are good for one stalk, one burst and if they miss, that's it. Time to take a break.
> 
> Finally, anyone that has had cats and I've had them for 50+ years knows that a BB gun doesn't do squat to a cat. A cat's hide is like leather. A BB will sting but the cat will be fine.I like my cats and I like my pigeons. If the birds have a decent loft, the cats will quickly lose interest.


Unless they happen to get hit in the eye, nose, ears or anywhere where the pellet can lodge, then it can be lethal, and Ive seen the results of a cat hit in the eye with a pellet.....
As for your cats, all cats are hunters, but if they are pets and doing this then they are not being fed enough, also they are not trained well enough not to and should not be let out.
Most cats do hunt mice & other small animals, but tend to play with them and do more injury rather than eat them.


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## NZ Pigeon

Quazar said:


> Unless they happen to get hit in the eye, nose, ears or anywhere where the pellet can lodge, then it can be lethal, and Ive seen the results of a cat hit in the eye with a pellet.....
> As for your cats, all cats are hunters, but if they are pets and doing this then *they are not being fed enough*, also they are not trained well enough not to and should not be let out.
> Most cats do hunt mice & other small animals, but tend to play with them and do more injury rather than eat them.


I disagree, Some cats just like to hunt and thats that, More intune with their instincts. Once again the above is very asssumptive.


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## Quazar

NZ Pigeon said:


> I disagree, Some cats just like to hunt and thats that, More intune with their instincts. Once again the above is very asssumptive.


Evan, time you got a life rather than try and pick faults with nearly every post you respond to.


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## Jay3

Most cats will just injure and toy with them, and kill them, but not eat them. I have seen that with birds, mice, and chipmunks. Unless they are hungry they don't normally eat them. Not normally anyway. Ferals cats will, as they are hunting to catch dinner.


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## NZ Pigeon

So whatever nzpouter said ( I am unsure as its been deleted ) was inflammatory but Bob can tell me to "get a life" with no action being taken. LOL


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## NZ Pigeon

Quazar said:


> Unless they happen to get hit in the eye, nose, ears or anywhere where the pellet can lodge, then it can be lethal, and Ive seen the results of a cat hit in the eye with a pellet.....
> As for your cats, all cats are hunters, but if they are pets and doing this then they are not being fed enough, also they are not trained well enough not to and should not be let out.
> Most cats do hunt mice & other small animals, but tend to play with them and do more injury rather than eat them.





Quazar said:


> Evan, time you got a life rather than try and pick faults with nearly every post you respond to.


Bob, The original post you made on this thread is no different to my post, You picked a portion of someones post and discussed that, Is that not what Forums are about?

I just think your attack on me was not only un-neccesary but also hypocritical.


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## nzpouter

NZ Pigeon said:


> So whatever nzpouter said ( I am unsure as its been deleted ) was inflammatory but Bob can tell me to "get a life" with no action being taken. LOL


inflamatory is it..? I can tell you what I said, pretty much in line to my signature lines... and if putting more value on your OWN animal's life in your OWN property above those of roaming predators is "inflamatory" I guess I'm in the wrong hobby.


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## almondman

nzpouter said:


> inflamatory is it..? I can tell you what I said, pretty much in line to my signature lines... and if putting more value on your OWN animal's life in your OWN property above those of roaming predators is "inflamatory" I guess I'm in the wrong hobby.


nzpouter - the deleted post violated parts of the "Forum Rules of Conduct". You need to look these up! If you're not willing to abide by these, you may be on the wrong forum, not in the wrong hobby. Maybe I should have said your post was "inappropriate", rather than inflammatory.

Evan - Bob telling you to "get a life" is Bob expressing his thoughts, well within the boundaries of what you yourself have argued for as your right to speak one's mind in an open forum. However, this thread is being moderated, along with one or two others, to ensure no lines are crossed by anyone. IMO!

*ALL - it is against forum rules to advocate hurting, torturing, and/or killing pigeons, or any other living creature. * There have been a couple of posts discussing using BB, pellet, or .22 caliber guns against cats and other predators. These should stop, per forum rules.


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## NZ Pigeon

If telling someone to "get a life" in that manner is not a personal attack then I am unsure what is. 

But that's sweet, If we are allowed to express opinions on peoples " lacking lifes " on this forum I will remember that.


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## Skyeking

*If anyone has any personal issues please address them in PM.s

Let's keep this thread on topic, derailing it doesn't help the OP or anyone.*


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## nzpouter

almondman said:


> nzpouter - the deleted post violated parts of the "Forum Rules of Conduct". You need to look these up! If you're not willing to abide by these, you may be on the wrong forum, not in the wrong hobby. Maybe I should have said your post was "inappropriate", rather than inflammatory.


sweet, at least we agree that if you disagree with the forum rules, move on... must applied to OP then, if they don't like their landlord's way of doing things.. move. Calling him names doesn't help either.


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## BobinOK

I'm not sure if someone else's name is Bob or not but I didn't tell anyone to get a life.

As far as my cats are concerned, they have food constantly in their bowl. They pick at that and then once a day they each get a half a can of the canned cat food. They hunt because they like to hunt but they also eat what they kill. If they can't eat it in one sitting, they'll eat it over time. I've found the "shell" of a squirrel under my boat cover one spring that was just a head, feet and skin. The whole inside was eaten.

*paragraph deleted*

If my pigeons are flying, the cats get locked up in the house.


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## almondman

BobinOK said:


> I'm not sure if someone else's name is Bob or not but I didn't tell anyone to get a life.
> 
> As far as my cats are concerned, they have food constantly in their bowl. They pick at that and then once a day they each get a half a can of the canned cat food. They hunt because they like to hunt but they also eat what they kill. If they can't eat it in one sitting, they'll eat it over time. I've found the "shell" of a squirrel under my boat cover one spring that was just a head, feet and skin. The whole inside was eaten.
> 
> *(Paragraph deleted)*
> 
> If my pigeons are flying, the cats get locked up in the house.


*PLEASE!* re-read the last part of post 39. No discussion concerning harming any animal is allowed in this forum


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## almondman

nzpouter said:


> sweet, at least we agree that if you disagree with the forum rules, move on... must applied to OP then, if they don't like their landlord's way of doing things.. move. Calling him names doesn't help either.


You can disagree with the forum rules, but until they are changed, you will abide by them. PERIOD! If you took the time to read them, you know that your use of this forum depends on you abiding by the rules.


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