# Mourning Dove***HELP***



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Hello all,

My mother in law found a Mourning Dove in her yard. She thinks it was attacked by a cat, but did not see it happen. She did not know what to do with it and knew I have taken in some baby pigeons before, so she called me last night. I picked the poor thing up and have him or her here now. A good amount of her feathers are gone, due to the attack I am sure and the stress. She was bleeding from her back, it looks scraped up pretty good and she keeps her left foot balled up. I jhave placed her in a box in my room so she had some peace. I have place food and water but she is not eating or drinking. She is so beautiful! I want to do all I can for her, she is not lethargic, she seems quit perky, but she can walk well.

What should I do about her eating/drinking?
Should I clean out her wounds? If so with what?

Please any advice would be appreciated
Mitch


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I meant to say she can not walk well......


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Mitch, I'm no expert here and others will be along shortly. I'll even go find someone to come read your thread. I do know that cat bites can be fatal. If you have any antibiotics, the bird needs to be put on them right away. Recommended most here is Clavamox/Augmentin. I have use Amoxicillin on a hawk attached bird and she did ok.
As far as cleaning the wound, you can use peroxide diluted 10/1. Just dab on with a cotton ball for now until it's determined how deep the wound is. Hope this helps some.............


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, first off, where are you? We need to get her on Clavamox or Amoxicillin pretty quickly.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I do not have any of those, but I do have Levaquin 500mg tablets, but those are for people. I do not want to do anything to hurt her.

My sister in law said she has Amoxocillin 500mg caps can she have that, it is for people?

Also how do I get it into her, she is not eating, I have hand feed baby pigeons
should I do the same with her?

How much do I give her, if I was to open the caps, I would think the whole cap would be to much right?

Thanks
Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Interestingly, doves are capable of blowing out a lot of feathers as a response to being caught. The idea is to leave the predator with a mouthful of feathers while the bird gets away. When we find a bird in this condition, you'd tend as much to think that it's gotten away from a hawk as a cat, though, especially if the missing feathers are nowhere to be found. It's irrelevant since the treatment would be the same. It's usually best to keep a dove in a box or cage that has padding on the top because they can launch off and smack their heads on the top of the cage since they're fairly excitable.

For food, they tend to like the smaller wild bird seeds and water needs to be kept in a bowl about a half-inch deep with a base that doesn't turn over easily. It's possible that this little fellow was already under the weather and that was why it was attacked in the first place.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Amoxicillin 500 milligram caplets would be fine, the dividing it up and giving it to a non-drinking bird is what's really fun. Do you have any syringes?

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, there are quite a few different dosing protocols for pigeons but we can just say that it's 100 mg/kg, PO, BID for now. So, it comes to a guesstimate of the weight of the bird which should be from 100 to 200 grams. That would mean that you'd want the bird to get 10 to 20 milligrams per dose, twice daily. That's from 1/50th to 1/25th of that pill. So, we either have to grind the pill up in some water for you to meter out with a syringe or you've got to grind the pill up and make a line, measure it, separate it out into a bunch of little piles and then mix one little pile per time into some water to syringe into the bird's beak.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Yes I do have syringes!!!!

I also have put wild bird seed in her box. but she is not eating that, I took out the other bowl I had the water in because I think it was to high for her, she can not walk well, so she will not perch on any of the bowls, I have put a lower bowl in there so she could maybe drink without having to get onto the bowl, but still is not drinking.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Shock is always something that takes time to get over. It's likely that a hawk's talons were involved and they like to punch their backmost talons into the body to pierce something vital and kill the bird. Better start counting the respirations per minute and start an hourly chart.

Go ahead and crush the pill as finely as possible and put it in one ounce or 33 milliliters of water, however you can measure it out. Then when you've got it mixed real well you're going to need to suck one full milliliter out and syringe that down the bird's beak. He ain't gonna' like it but maybe he's in enough shock at the moment not to fight too much. Perhaps he's lost some blood and is feeling a little unenergetic at the moment. If you have to wrap the bird in a towel to keep it from struggling much then do so.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Start looking real good at that balled-up foot and how she uses it, by the way. We're either dealing with a broken something (which we can deal with) or there's some kind of nerve trauma from a talon or tooth going into some portion of the motor control system (nerves) or the leg itself. If the bird does put it down occasionally and puts real weight on it, then we're not going to be worried as much about a broken leg. If it never puts any weight on it then we are.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Ok, She is not putting any weight on the leg except when she trying to move, and then it is only for a brief moment, she does not open the foot at all, and she does not extend the leg. she also seems to have more wing damage then I thought at first. Her right wing on the underside, it looked like a bone sticking out, close to the boby, My friend said it looked like a feather broken off, but I do not know. I will try to take some pics and see if hubby can put them up. She is not bleeding anymore, so that is good.

Mitch

Thanks so much for you all being there to help.
How many days do I keep here on the meds?


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Let's go for a week at the moment and we can revise it later as required. 

Okay, on the leg we might want to do a little exploration. Here's a webpage that you can go to that is fairly detailed drawings of a pigeon skeleton:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

It would be good to compare her legs slowly and carefully by letting your fingers do all the looking. You're looking for an uncharacteristic bump, swelling, looseness... that kind of thing. 

The wings can be pretty tough to tell because the skin is so translucent once you get the feathers out of the way that it looks like a bone is sticking out which really isn't the case. However, it can be, of course. We'll have to look into that a bit later.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I have checked her leg and from what I can tell there are no bumps, swelling, or loseness. She seems so much weaker now, I am worried that she is not eating, should I feed her some of the exact baby bird formula.

She is such a mess, I wish I could make her all better right away, I am afraid I am going to lose her.

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if you lose her it's not going to be because she doesn't have food in her. It's usually because there's internal damage that you don't know about. That's why I mentioned counting the respiration rate and charting it. You can put her under a heat lamp or other kind of bulb that's putting out some warmth and it may help her get through the worst of it as long as nothing internal is going on. What you'd do is to put your hand where she is to get a sense of how much warmth is coming down on her. As long as she can move out from under it if necessary, she can have quite a bit. Did you give her the medication already? Have there been any poops?

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It occurs to me that you might not have understood the reasoning behind charting the respirations--it's because sometimes there is internal bleeding and the bird starts slowing increasing the respiration rate. Towards the last (and I mean getting close to dying) it really starts picking up fast and there isn't much time left when that starts happening. The bird will eventually go into spasms and then it's over. About all you can do if that happens is hold them and be with them.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mitch, 



Where are you?


We might have members close to you who could help.


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Hello All,


I am sorry I have not posted in a while. I was so discouraged when the lovely Dove passed away., she had so many injuries. I at least have the medicines here now, if I end up with another sick bird.

I have another issue I am hoping maybe someone can help me with. I have a baby Pigeon named Buddy, I have had her for I think almost two weeks, she is eating well and has been doing great, but I noticed as she is growing her right leg the hip area seems to flop under. I am not sure what to do about it. it is not broken she has been healthy. I am concerned she will not be able to walk.

I am going to post some pics this evening, so you all can see what I mean.

Any thoughts would be great.
Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You may be talking about a splayed leg, but I can't tell from your description. So, go check this thread out and see if it's anything like what you're talking about:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17869

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

That is great, not that she has splayed leg but that I know what to do now.Thank you so much! I will still post the pics this evening, she is so cute.
I am not totally sure how old she is, I am guessing maybe 14-18 days, is she to young to tape the legs now? From what I read they should be taped just below the knee correct?

Thanks so much you are so awsome, I am so glad I found this place.

Mitch


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

*Pic of Buddy*

Ok, here is a pic of buddy. 

http://1944hq.net/images/mybird.JPG

Let me know if the link does not work.
Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, that's a badly splayed leg. Give us another picture as soon as you've got her legs in therapy. This is going to take awhile.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Mitch, the splay legs are about as bad as I have seen. You really have your work cut out for you but it can be done.

You know, this looks like a baby pigeon.


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I just hope she will be able to walk, I will post pics this evening, sorry but I am not that computer savy, so I have to wait for hubby to put the pic up.

I am not sure if I did it right so please once the new pic is up, let me know how it looks.

Yes she is a baby not sure how old though just been guessing myself, my nieghbor had a pest control person coming because she does not like all the pigeons nesting on her house. So I asked her if she minded if I took a look before she had them out and this little guy was up there, so I took her.

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One of the things that can be done is to keep them in something that's somewhat of a bowl so that their feet will always slide towards the center. As long as all the joints are still operational (bendable), they can be retrained back to where they more-or-less should be. I've got one or two that have a little bit of an odd gait to their walk but you'd probably only see it if you knew to look for it. This one is certainly young enough to achieve some good success after a couple of weeks.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Well I think you are right I may have to put her in a bowl, when she moves her one foot on that side seems to shoot back. Do you think a few weeks will do it for her, if I put her in a bowl?

Mitch


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

ok, here are the other pics. If I keep her in the bowl do I need to keep the tape on her legs or not.

Mitch

http:\\www.1944hq.net/images/birdtape.JPG

http:\\1944hq.net/images/birdbowl.JPG


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I do not know why that link came out that way, here it is again.

http:\\1944hq.net/images/birdbowl.JPG

Mitch


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Mitch, I'm sort of butting in here, but the one leg looks swollen. Please make sure the tape isn't too tight and cutting off circulation............


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I do not know why her knee is like that, really it is not tight, I put tissue paper on the inside of the tape where it goes around her leg and I made sure there was plenty of room for it to move on her leg. Not sure what to do? I think maybe the leg is still trying to go out and therefor it is pulling in that area. What do you think?

Mitch


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, as long as it's not too tight, then I guess it's ok. Not sure about that swelling. Does the bird seem to be in pain? I have just seen the picture of the leg before you taped it. I thought you guys were still talking about the baby dove........didn't realize that you had switched gears.........LOL
I ask about pain because that is the worst splayed leg I've ever seen and this youngster does have some age on it. That leg had been like that for a long time and I'm just wondering if it's painful for it to be pulled back into position like that after growing the opposite way for 2 or 2 1/2 weeks. That may be the cause of the swelling..........pulling the leg into what the birds body considers an odd position.


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

She has not acted like she was in any pain, but I can tell it is uncomfortable for her when it is pulled into position. I am not sure what else to do here. Do you think she will be ok in the bowl with the tape off?

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Let's get some hydrocortisone cream on that knee.

Pidgey


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Mitch said:


> She has not acted like she was in any pain, but I can tell it is uncomfortable for her when it is pulled into position. I am not sure what else to do here. Do you think she will be ok in the bowl with the tape off?
> 
> Mitch


Nope, just putting her in a bowl isn't going to fix this leg. Plus, she'll be moving around quite a bit in a few days and you couldn't keep her in the bowl anyway. I really don't like the looks of that leg, but I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe Pidgey will be back on line in a little while and have some ideas. probably just keeping it taped is all you can do. I thought at first you might need to bring the legs closer together, but after seeing that one picture, I'm not sure whether that would be the thing to do or not...........


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

THERE'S PIDGEY!!! Yeah!!


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Ok, I put the hydrocortisone cream on her knee. 


Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That joint would naturally be pointing the wrong way due to the fact that the bird was raised on a slick surface and it started growing bad. Likely the tibiotarsus (the bone above the joint that's equivalent to your shin) actually has a twist in it that's got to be retrained to some degree of normalcy. That's going to hurt and it's going to cause inflammation. The hydrocortisone cream will help with that and to keep the resultant swelling down or controlled.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Well I guess that is my fault. I had her in a box with a towel and paper towels. How often should I apply the cream?

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Let's go with once a day and see how it goes. If the swelling doesn't get any worse, we'll hold there for a few days.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks Pidgey,

I will watch the knee and apply once a day if the swelling does not get worse.
I guess I will talk to you in a few days then.

Thanks again
Mitch


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

*Buddy Update*

Hello All,


Well, I had to take the tape off and change it due to soiling. What I noticed is that it seems her knee is turned outward. Should I bring her legs in more at this point? I am hoping if I pull them in more maybe we can get the knee to straitin out more. Or is there something else I should do? Should I maybe splint the leg? The swelling is still there but not worse.

Anythoughts?
Mitch


----------



## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

I had a turkey with a leg problem like that I started by cuting 2 wholes into shirt for the legs. I stuck the legs into the wholes then I wrapped the legs together then I pulled the shirt over a box and taped the leggs to the bottum of the box. It made it so he walked again and i hope it works for you too here are some pictures.


----------



## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

And incase you need a better example of what it looks like then here is a drawing. Sorry im not the best lol











And sorry wholes in the picture should be holes


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Hey, Michael...

Is that the turkey that so many folks told you was one of those meat birds that would grow up deformed and unable to function in fairly short order? I'd heard things like that before but don't know how true it is. How's he doing?

Pidgey


----------



## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

Well after getting better he got worse and died.

he just stoped eating.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, no... well, that's sad. How old did he get?

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks so much for the help Stach n Flash.... 

I Called a vet office near me today and was told she needs surgery and that it would cost 500.00 That is WAY out of my buget. To top it off she said that NO doctor would look at her anyway because she is a Pigeon and most Docs will only see Birds.... HELLO I think a Pigeon is a bird or am I wrong here!

Does anyone know of a Vet or somewhere close to me that I can take her that is not going to kill my buget. I have really bonded with her and I do not want to give up on her.

Phoenix,Az. Near 40th Street and Thunderbird.

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, for that area, your best bet would be AZWhitefeather to know the best vets. She's in Mesa and I don't know how far that is away from you. I'll PM her to see if she knows anything.

Usually though, it's the foam block and tape that wins the day with splayleg. Cynthia once did something interesting, I seem to remember. I'll PM her, too.

Pidgey


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Mr. Squeaks is also in the area and I think she has a good vet.

Reti


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti said:


> Mr. Squeaks is also in the area and I think she has a good vet.
> 
> Reti


Well, yeah, but he charged a wing, you know.

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

I appreciate the help guys, I really need it. I am really concerned about the knee area jutting out and up so much. Maybe even if there is someone who lives in the area, I could go see that could mentor me through this.

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, when you say the knee juts out... go to this webpage and study the skeletal drawings and identify which joint it is that you're referring to:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Well from what I can tell it would be the (Tarsometatarsus) that is going in the wrong direction.

Mitch


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Would you believe that that section of the leg is the equivalent of the portion of the foot on us between the toes and the heel? Anyhow, on ones like that you often use a foam block between both feet to keep it straight with the other foot for awhile. The bird can't walk under that circumstance until the foam is removed so you often stable it in a box that doesn't give it any room to do anything more than stand. It should be low enough that he can see out, though. It seems cruel but it's a lot better than growing up essentially lame. Like I said, seems like Cynthia's deal was pretty neat. She's in the UK and so it's past midnight her time right now--she won't see this until it's morning there, more than likely.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Actually, Dr. Burke, my Avian Vet, was quite reasonable, in my opinion. However, the prices DID get a Senior 10% discount.

His first surgery included anesthesia, exam, Baytril, bandage application and wound prep...for $120.60.

His actual amputation and anesthesia was $88.20.

I also had some re-checks exams for free.

Mitch...you may find the following information helpful:

Dr. Burke has pigeons of his own but practices in the East Valley at Cornerstone Animal Hosp. at Val Vista and Ray (Gilbert).
PH: 480-857-9229

There is also Dr. Funk in Mesa on Country Club and 8th St.
PH: 480-833-7330

Dr. Tracey Ritzman is at the Palm Glen Animal Hosp. at 43rd Ave & Northern.
PH: 602-841-1200

Dr. Amy Crommer at Valley West Animal Hosp. at 35th & Northern.
PH: 602-841-0727

Sometimes these Avian Vet offices can refer to ones who might be nearer to where you live.

Hope this helps, Mitch! 

BEST OF EVERYTHING

Shi & Squeaks


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for the heads up Pidgey.  
I'm just now logging on. Busy afternoon. 

And thank you, Shi, for posting the names of the vets you have acquired.

Mitch, you might want to give East Valley Wildlife (Nancy) a call, 480-814-9339.
Although she's in Chandler, I believe there are some EVW rehabbers a bit closer to you. 

Wishing you luck.  
Please keep us posted. 

Cindy


----------



## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

Yeah right that docter just wants to get money out of you! I took my pigeon to the vet that was worse than yours its leg was intierly backwards and he said to do what I just told you. 

It only cost me 68 dollars

If any one knows the link to the pictures i posted on here I think that would help alot! Ill try to find the picture




And he lasted 4 months


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Mitch,

When correcting a splay leg you have to balance the "corrective work" against the level of stress caused to the bird. I think that being unable to move at all can cause a lot of stress, doves are more affected by pigeons and can get so agitated that they die.

The first of these links is to how a dove's twisted legs were corrected. Initially the legs were completely paralysed and crossed over the front of the body. This correction didn't stand the test of time all that well, the feet twisted inwards again but Doveling is still able to walk, fly and perch and is not in pain.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15302&highlight=doveling


This is a link to a correction on an older pigeon that was fully fledged and flying with the flock when she was rescued. She was able to fly and perch while the bandage was on. Some years later she waddles a bit when she walks, but the correction held.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz#forum

Cynthia


----------



## Mitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Sorry for not posting sooner. Things have been nuts around here. Well I put her legs in a sponge and she was flapping her wings so much I was afraid she woud hurt herself, so I cut a shirt up and had it around her wings. Well I guess I need to change her name to Houdini because she got out of it and had pulled her legs out. So I had to do something a little different, I placed the sponge between her legs and taped around them. I also cut a shoe box, put her legs through the box so she could sit on top and I have her rear end on the edge so she can poop without getting it on her. She seems much calmer with this method and she has not been able to pull her legs out of the sponge. So I am guessing I should give it this week and then check her leg to see if it looks like it is working. Does that sound right?

Thanks
Mitch


----------

