# "Flying Rats"?



## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

What diseases do pigeons carry that are actually harmful to humans?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Ornithosis is the only one I have heard is transmitable to humans.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Ornithosis, but that is transmitted by close contact. One of our members caught it by giving a sick pigeon the kiss of life.

There are also 2 forms of salmonellosis that pigeons can carry and that can be transmitted to humans , but you would have to ingest food contaminated by pigeon poop.

Handling pigeons with PMV can also cause a mild form of conjunctivitis in humans.

Dried droppings ca acrry vriptococcus which can affect people with impaired immune systems such as HIV sufferers, there is also Hystoplasmosis but that is something in the soil that thrives when the soil containing Hystoplasma (?)is enriched with pigeon or bat droppings.

I can't think of anything else...but then I don't think rats carry that many diseases transmitable to humans either . The animal that has the potential to carry the most diseases that affect man is his fellow human. We also cause the most damage to the environment and the most pollution.

Cynthia


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

You could also get Chlamydiosis from pigeons but it is passed through inhalation (I think) but I wouldn't worry about getting any disease from them since it doesn't happen often and shouldn't dicorage you from keeping the birds.


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## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

well thanks for all the information


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Pigeon breeders lung can happen if you do not have good venilation and breath loft dust from cleaning the loft over time. A dust mask can prevent this. Mice and rats carry many deseases to the birds. AND people. about 12 years ago deer mice made many people sick on the reservation in New mexico. The towns people thought it was an Indian desease treated the people badly Then the goverment found the mice had made the people sick. Mice was delt with the people got well The towns people had toeat there words. If rodents did not infect a loft or home birds and people would be healther. Rodents get in grains we eat and birds eat. They mess in the grain we eat it get sick birds eat it get sick. And some of these deseases stay with the birds for a long time.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi BabbaYagga just wondering why your title is named Flying Rats? 

Cindy


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

re lee said:


> Mice and rats carry many deseases to the birds. AND people. about 12 years ago deer mice made many people sick on the reservation in New mexico. The towns people thought it was an Indian desease treated the people badly Then the goverment found the mice had made the people sick. Mice was delt with the people got well The towns people had toeat there words. If rodents did not infect a loft or home birds and people would be healther. Rodents get in grains we eat and birds eat. They mess in the grain we eat it get sick birds eat it get sick. And some of these deseases stay with the birds for a long time.


Mammals carry diseases that are much more transmittable to humans than do birds. I had a friend die of the Hanta virus (the one RE Lee referred to). It's fast, ugly, and deadly. 

Usually good hygiene, simple precautions, and good cleaning practices can eliminate any opportunities for transferrance of the microbes that cause the diseases. Use a disinfectant over an anti-bacterial soap. Successive generations of bacteria develop the resistance to antibotics, unlike resistance to the disinfectants. Wash your hands a minimum of 20 to 30 seconds -- really wash don't just kinda pass 'em under the faucet and use soap. That ought to take care of most easily passed "bugs"


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

naturegirl said:


> Hi BabbaYagga just wondering why your title is named Flying Rats?
> 
> Cindy


Was wondering that myself.....


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Pigeon breeders lung can happen if you do not have good venilation and breath loft dust from cleaning the loft over time


Just to clarify, pigeon breeder's lung, also called extrinsic allergic alveolitis, is not a disease carried by pigeons but the result of sensitisation to avian protein which can occcur over several years. The disease can be caused by sensitisation to various birds (budgies, canaries etc) and numerous other antigens.

According to what has caused the sensitisation the main names the disease has in the UK are farmer's lung , metalworking-fluid lung, cheese washer's lung, mushroom worker's lung, doghouse disease, wood pulp worker's lung, rodent handler's lung, woodworker's lung, hot tub lung , humidifier lung, compost lung and peat-moss worker's lung. Avoidance of the antigen usually resolves the problem. 

Chlamydiosis is the correct name for Ornithosis.


Cynthia


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I Wonder*

I wonder when introduced to someone and you shake his/her hand do you wonder where that hand was 5 minuts ago?
I wounder when I see a dog lick the face of someone where was that dogs nose 5 minutes ago. Ithink I will stop wondering because the worry could kill .me. GEORGE


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## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

I heard someone ranting about how pigeons were "flying rats" and disease bags and I was just wondering how much of that is really true. I really dont think pigeons are flying rats, they are beautiful and amazing birds.


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

Yes been told that my birds were flying rats many times, I don't get why, it's not like pigeons ever cause any trouble or give any reason for people to think that of them.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Rats also make amazing pets. It's true that mammals can carry a lot of diseases and parasites that can be passed to humans, but more often than not it is our fault that they get said parasites and diseases. Humans need to learn how to properly keep animals. Bird flu and other influenzas that stem from poultry in Asian farms are getting and spreading these illnesses for a reason. They are being truly mistreated and are living in horrible conditions. The same goes for cows and mad cow disease. Factory farms are often the cause, but that should never discourage someone from keeping poultry, birds, or mammals. I keep a goose as a house pet, and it is true that they never need any shots as they are some of the hardiest animals, and certainly the hardiest birds. They can live up to or above 50 years old, and rarely get ill. However, though poultry are very hardy, if they live in horrible conditions, you have to expect they'll get sick. As stated before, humans are the biggest disease spreaders.


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## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

I agree with you on that one. Especially in poultry farms disease can spread very rapidly because all the birds are so stressed and packed very close together. If they were given proper care they would be healthier and more disease-resistant.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

I feed a wild flock on the same corner of a disused car park (opposite my block of flats) every day (twice). Of course they poop a lot there, and I try to avoid laying the food on dirty spots, but I don't know how to clean the ground, as it would be hard work taking buckets of hot water across the road (and I am on the 2nd floor) and could not use a power washer as the cable would not stretch that far. We are having lots of heavy rain - is this enough to clean the concrete? I can't bear to see them eat from the ground near to their poops. Can they get germs from their own poop? I take my shoes off before going indoors and antibac-wipe the soles of my shoes regularly.
Florence.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

I personally wouldn't worry about it too much. People say how disgusting pigeon poop is but I live with pigeons in my room...Not to mention a goose...And I hardly EVER get sick. So if anything, they make me healthier.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I've kept pet birds my entire life and I have never, ever gotten sick from them, even when they were sick. I wash my hands a lot and I wear a dust mask when I clean the loft because the dust did cause irritation after awhile and I didn't want to develop pigeon-keeper's lung.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Check this link out:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/220100.htm&hide=1

Scroll a few lines down to the Global Zoonosis Table that is 'linked' and click on it and
have a looksee for yourself on the illnesses that pigeons can pass to humans
compared to dogs and cats and ask yourself if either dogs or cats get the 
same 'bad press' that pigeons are given. Fair is fair, if zoonosis or the possibility of it should determine whether or not a given animal is all right to
have as a 'pet', then maybe humans should reconsider pets in general and 
ultimately whether we should even hang out w/each other or not  ...

fp


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My kids are rug rats, why not my birds flying rats, and my neighbor is a rat fink, or my wife the dirty rat. Just what I tell my sixth grade class, "Don't judge on ignorance alone". I live in NW New Mexico and can remember the dear mice scare. We had a wet winter and spring a few years back and the mice population shot up. I can recal two deaths that year. If I am not mistaken the disease is carried by fleas on the mice. I think the dragon lady down the street killed more people with second hand smoke. I do not think the mice kill any more people than rabid dogs or Plague infested rodents do. I think if they ran the statistics they would be hard pressed to find anyone killed by a pigeon in the last fifty years. If they did it would be a long time fancier that developed lung cancer. I bet if you asked him he would not have it any other way, a life without the birds. The neighbor's cow poops one time what my birds do in a week. Draws more flies also. I think we need to kick the butt of who ever was responsible for ruining the good old days. When a young boy could have a small backyard loft with a dozen birds and not have to be educated on zoning laws, disease, bird flu, loft registration, building permits etc. Must be that extra time every one has to worry about everybody elses business. And those out to make a buck on a kids hobby. Well off my soap box have to go and tuck the rug rats in. 

Randy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> ........... I think we need to kick the butt of who ever was responsible for ruining the good old days. When a young boy could have a small backyard loft with a dozen birds and not have to be educated on zoning laws, disease, bird flu, loft registration, building permits etc. *Must be that extra time every one has to worry about everybody elses business.* And those out to make a buck on a kids hobby. Well off my soap box have to go and tuck the rug rats in.
> 
> Randy


Yeah, way too much time, but they don't think so... 

fp


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi Randy, Well Said .george


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I can't bear to see them eat from the ground near to their poops. Can they get germs from their own poop?
> Florence.


Hi Florence,

Pigeons are more likely to get infections from drinking water that has been pooped in. It would be much more dangerous to them if you were feeding them where there was human excrement and urine...that is what I used to find at one of my city centre feeding sites. 

What you could do if it becomes worrying is to take some of those very thin. light seed trays with you and put the feed in that.

Cynthia


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## Niel (May 25, 2005)

See

http://www.savethepigeons.org/disease.html


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