# Brothers and sisters...how close is TOO close? Next..on Oprah...



## MellissaG (Apr 18, 2007)

Okay so I have a question. 

Aisha and Ali are joined at the hip..or wing..or whatever. They come and go together all the time..leave for days at a time sometimes, but whenever they come back..they are always together. Still snuggling at night together. In their earlier days, they often fed eachother. They still kiss, and I always see one or the other kissing their sibling's neck while the other is near passing out in bliss. 

Im not entirely sure of the sex of either, I just named them randomly -- but im assuming this is common. Although, I am starting to wonder -- do pigeons practice incest? They were born in Febuary -- they are fully grown I believe, yes? Shouldnt they be finding mates of their own by now?
For your enjoyment, here are pictures of them (BEFORE.. as babies).. and AFTER (Today, fully grown)








^ Being rescued in a warm apartment while a thunderstorm blows over for two days.









^ Being interrupted from their kissing and cuddling session while I snap a pic, today  All grown up! 


Also, I have new pics up of who I have now named Ivory and Ebony (and mom).. in their own little personal thread..  I love my babies, what can I say! 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21213


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MellissaG said:


> Okay so I have a question.
> 
> Aisha and Ali are joined at the hip..or wing..or whatever. They come and go together all the time..leave for days at a time sometimes, but whenever they come back..they are always together. Still snuggling at night together. In their earlier days, they often fed eachother. They still kiss, and I always see one or the other kissing their sibling's neck while the other is near passing out in bliss.
> 
> Im not entirely sure of the sex of either, I just named them randomly -- but im assuming this is common. Although, I am starting to wonder -- do pigeons practice incest? They were born in Febuary -- they are fully grown I believe, yes? Shouldnt they be finding mates of their own by now?


It is quite common for siblings to become mates. Happens all the time. Pigeon fanciers do mate Fathers to Daughters, Uncles to neices, etc.......it's not considered "incest" in the pigeon world.  Aisha and Ali may in time go off and find another mate. I wouldn't worry to much about it. They are still a little young. 4 months old. Not considered grown in pigeon terms for another couple of months. I have young birds that lay eggs at 4 months. I expect they do the same in the "feral" world, but I would venture to say that not many ferals start raising babies at that early age. I could be wrong


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I have two female feral pigeons that are sisters and have mated to each other. I was sure I had a boy and girl because of their behaviour until Winston, now Winnie, laid an egg. I've never worried about it because my birds stay indoors. I think your's will be fine too.


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## MellissaG (Apr 18, 2007)

wow , thats hilarious. I was thinking I was over exaggerating -- but not only can siblings mate, they can swing both ways


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I have a pair of West of England tumblers who are brother and sister and have remained paired after growing up. They have never shown an interest in any other mates but each other. We named them Tut and Lacy, Tut after the ancient Egyptian pharohs who always married their sister. Lacy, well, that turned out to be a misnomer. When small, she had a lovely beige lacy pattern on her wing shields. She was a beautiful baby. After her moult it all vanished and she is now white with a few splashes of beige.

Margarret


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## MellissaG (Apr 18, 2007)

Can anyone tell me when pigeons are ready to lay eggs? They are about 4 1/2 months old or so. 

Should I maybe put out another box soon to see if they mate? Or do you think it wont be until next season? 

In an odd way, that would be pretty exciting for me since I watched them since they were eggs on my balcony.. then I get to see their eggs, and so forth. Aww  

I must admit, this family is quite provocative. Mr. and Mrs (the originals) seem to not care too much about the others whereabouts -- and I often see the 2nd batch (Ivory and Ebony) unguarded for quite a while, at only about 10 days or so of age. I also believe Daddy has a mistress on my neighbor's balcony.. (she has quite the pigeon crowd as well.) ... sort of interesting if you ask me. Very polygamous. I must have some pretty political pigeons!


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

MellissaG said:


> wow , thats hilarious. I was thinking I was over exaggerating -- but not only can siblings mate, they can swing both ways


They can also sneak around with our third "hen" and surprise their mom with a baby . So far baby's 16 days old and beautiful with two moms doing the parenting.

My girls laid their first eggs at six month if I remember correctly


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi MelissaG,

I too have a brother sister pair that I hand raised. They bonded with each other because of trauma, and are now mated with each other, but I replace their eggs with dummy eggs now. I don't have the heart to break them up, and it isn't necessary anyway, except I would love Skye to have some babies.

If you allow them to free fly, be aware there are dangers out there, and hand raised babies are more susceptible to predator attacks, because their natural instinct that parents normally teach them is a little off.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Its funny that 2 eggs will arise to a male & female pigeon baby - most of the time.

Very often people breed from the same line over and over without realising. I normally break a young pair soon as possilble if they are from the same family before they pair up.

Pairing of brothers & sisters takes longer that if they are from 2 different families. example brother & sister may take up to 2 months longer.

I start pairing around 8 months and I have babies when they are 9 months


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## MellissaG (Apr 18, 2007)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi MelissaG,
> 
> I too have a brother sister pair that I hand raised. They bonded with each other because of trauma, and are now mated with each other, but I replace their eggs with dummy eggs now. I don't have the heart to break them up, and it isn't necessary anyway, except I would love Skye to have some babies.
> 
> If you allow them to free fly, be aware there are dangers out there, and hand raised babies are more susceptible to predator attacks, because their natural instinct that parents normally teach them is a little off.


Trees hun , they are not hand raised  Mommy and daddy took full control of Aisha and Ali.. and also now Ivory and Ebony. They are on my balcony, so I just get to watch them... pet them occasionally. When Aisha and Ali were little, there was a thunderstorm in Toronto (in feb/march) that lasted about 2 days -- so I just took them inside occasionally on nights it was very cold and parents got stuck somewhere else before dark. But they are 100% wild. Well, maybe 99%


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Whew! Well....that is a RELIEF to know, so they do indeed have a sound instinct.


Thanks for responding.


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## MellissaG (Apr 18, 2007)

yep trees, they are wild as can be.

And instincts is right .... 

It is OFFICIAL --> 

Aisha and Ali are mates...now that I think of it I was in too much of shock when I saw them ..um.. procreating.. to remember who was on top, so we can officially figure out who is Aisha and who is Ali  Might have to switch the names around..stay tuned! haha.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

MellissaG said:


> yep trees, they are wild as can be.
> 
> And instincts is right ....
> 
> ...


That's what you think. They may keep you in a constant state of shock for yet a bit.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MellissaG said:


> yep trees, they are wild as can be.
> 
> And instincts is right ....
> 
> ...


I have on occasions seen my birds reverse "who's on top, who's on bottom".....so don't jump the gun!!


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