# Inbred Genetics?



## DuppyDoodle (Sep 18, 2009)

Hey everyone, 
I just had questions about inbreds. I know with chickens when they are chicks they display some signs of being inbred, like some walk backwards or stick their head between their legs when they walk, stuff like that. I was wondering if pigeons display the same thing?

And also, I know its alright if two chickens from the same brood can mate and have chicks and they won't be to strange. But their immunity system slowly starts getting worse. Do pigeons suffer from the same thing?

Thanks


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It all depends on what genes the parents carry. Pigeons in most cases can handle some inbreeding with no problems. Other times, they can end up mutated or just lesser quality. Just depends. In chickens, too, I guess it can be the same way. I'm sure I've had some pretty inbred chicks at some point, but have yet to find a problem other than a crooked toe here and there.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Not heard of these*



DuppyDoodle said:


> Hey everyone,
> I just had questions about inbreds. I know with chickens when they are chicks they display some signs of being inbred, like some walk backwards or stick their head between their legs when they walk, stuff like that. I was wondering if pigeons display the same thing?
> 
> And also, I know its alright if two chickens from the same brood can mate and have chicks and they won't be to strange. But their immunity system slowly starts getting worse. Do pigeons suffer from the same thing?
> ...


The things you describe sound more like results of poor nutrition, improper incubation temps/and or improper incubation humidity or disease to me.

Inbreeding is practiced in virtually all types of animal breeding but there are methods to this to predict outcomes and to even improve stock.

You have to start with quality stock that shows no bad traits to begin with. There can be recessive traits that will show up when you inbreed and some can be undesirable.

Brother sister matings seem to be among the riskier as any bad traits that came from mom or dad or both may well be present in both brother and sister. It is one way to find out what you have and whether you need to start your breeding program over again.

If family lines are free of bad genetics, inbreeding can be a useful tool to keep these genes going.

Bill


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## darkfur (May 11, 2007)

I have heard of squabs hatching out blind. I think it would be a matter of being severely inbred though. If you google "line breeding" you'll probably find some diagrams and stuff to explain how to do it properly. Agree that often poor incubation is the cause of severe problems in chickens. A guy bought some fertile chicken eggs off me and incubated them about a whole degree too hot and all but two of them were spraddled, when I sold him a new lot and gave him a refresher about how to incubate they all hatched perfect. The other thing that makes chicks behave very strangely is diseases that have a neurological effect like some serotypes of salmonella. This can be passed on even through the egg.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Eggsactly*



darkfur said:


> I have heard of squabs hatching out blind. I think it would be a matter of being severely inbred though. If you google "line breeding" you'll probably find some diagrams and stuff to explain how to do it properly. Agree that often poor incubation is the cause of severe problems in chickens. A guy bought some fertile chicken eggs off me and incubated them about a whole degree too hot and all but two of them were spraddled, when I sold him a new lot and gave him a refresher about how to incubate they all hatched perfect. The other thing that makes chicks behave very strangely is diseases that have a neurological effect like some serotypes of salmonella. This can be passed on even through the egg.


Most problems that I ever had with hatching chicks, ducklings, turkeys, pheasants etc. were traceable to improper incubation. Eggs not being turned properly, wrong temp, wrong humidity and even sanitation of the incubator. Still air incubators probably shouldn't even be made but people do get by with them somehow. Auto turning and fans help alleviate a lot of problems. Also the thermostat is very important and there are cheap ones that are not very accurate, causing problems. The good ones don't cost that much more and I learned to just buy them to begin with and start with a new one nearly every year or every other year.

Inbreeding in birds can cause such things as mutations where they begin to turn white, or yellow in the case of green birds. Mallard ducks were inbred to a point of becoming pied and eventually white. You can do this yourself in a few generations. No deformities, just a change in color. This most likely just happened as a fluke in the domestication process. Once figured out, white birds became very common and desired for meat purposes and other reasons, sacred, etc.

I have seen Canada geese with the start of a white ring in the neck, if a person bred these long enough, we would likely have white Canada geese, as was done with the Embden goose from the Toulouse which is a domesticated form of I think the pink footed goose, if I remember right. They are from Europe, I think. I used to raise all of this stuff, hard to remember it all.

Pigeons that are born blind are more likely from a genetic disorder than anything else. Breeding almonds together can result in blind pigeons or partially blind pigeons. This is a sub-lethal gene attached to stipper (almond).

There is a lethal gene attached to dominant opal and homozygous dominant opals normally don't even hatch, or live very short lives. Some claim to have birds that defy this, I don't know if they are right or wrong. I'm skeptical.

Dilute Deroy almonds can be near sighted or have vision problems, yet another eye problem associated with almond. I have one with the problem and some without it.

None of these seem to be actually caused by inbreeding, it's just a way to find them as they come out from two birds that carry the same recessive gene which is bad.

Bill


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## DuppyDoodle (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh? Thats so weird! I didnt think that poor incubation or improper turning of the eggs can do that to young birds!
Blindness huh? Thats a strange genetic defect for a pigeon to get and the only one thats super common. I never thought that blindness would be the most debilitating mutation.
And none of there is no damage done to the imune system? Thats pretty lucky!

Thanks guys for answering this question!


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

ive inbreed pigeons with no porblem i try not to breed two from the same hatch but ive all ways got good results mybe becuse my birds came from a 70's in iraq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6YGMuYKYbo


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## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

well all of my pigeons are the same blood altho i have never mated like a son to a mother kinda thing but there all one family because there is only a few of us around with mookees and we all got them from the same person lol so this is why i joind this forum in the begining to try and ship in new blood but i havefound now that it's very expencive


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