# Found a sick pigeon



## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

HI,
I found a sick pigeon today. Actually I was on my way to the vets with my cat and the pigeon was in the middle of the street, just down the block from my house. So I got a box and brought the pidgie also.
Saturday being the busiest day at the vets, I was woried that they wouldnt want to look at her/him also but my vet did. He examined the bird and didnt see any signs of obvious injury. He looked in her mouth and the inside looked ok. Healso said (and I forget why) she had eaten recently. He said they have alot of pigeons right now that they think either have an avian influenza or west nile and I could leave him/her. He also said they are alll dying upstairs so I decided to take her home. 
He gave an injection of baytril and I think Vit A/D and gave me a mixture to drip twice a day into her nouth.
She looks like maybe there is something neurological going on becasue iniatially, her head/neck was tilting back and side. I have her in a box with water and the bird food they eat outside - one of the premium no waste mixtures. I made a solution that I saw on one of the posts of 1 tsp sugar and 2 oz water. Imnot sure that she has eaten any of the food. Should I drip the sugar solution in her mouth? I saw some references to metronidazole. Should she get that also? What else do you advise?
THanks,
Donna


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

I forgot to say that she has some mites. I went to thepet store and they had something with pyrethins but it had so many warnings I was afraid to use it on her if she is sick.THo' I realize that the mites are a problem also. What do youall do?
Tx,
Donna Mae


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Flea powder with the permethrin or pyrethrin is fine. Just lightly dust the pigeon with it...get the wings, the body, _cover his/her face and eyes/mouth/cere (nostrils) when you dust. _ rub it in the feathers for around 10 seconds and then the Pigeon will shake the dust off. You will see the lice/bugs literally fall off the bird and that will be that.

Clarify a few things, if you can:

1) OK...so just to be clear...you DO have a prescription of Baytril ?

2) Does he/she walk around OK, or just stand or sit in one place ? Does she have any 'fits' or what appear to be 'seizures'...flapping and flailing about wildly for several seconds and usually ending up in an odd position (on back or on side, for example) ?

3) can she/he recognize food and eat on his/her own ? Observe this...if she is NOT eating, you will need to handfeed. frozen peas and corn is an easy and nutritious way to do this. We can give you more instructions on how when you reply.

4) Doc checked the mouth and said it was clear. She/he was checking for canker. If there is no phlegm in the nostrils, the Pigeon likely doesn't have canker (aka 'trich') and therefore would not need metronidazole. If, however, it is convenient to you...it might not hurt to have some onhand.

From what you describe...it is likely neither influenza nor west nile...those are quite dramatic but, really...much more common and likely is it could be an avian virus called PMV (do not worry, it cannot transmit to humans or other mammals). 

But it can also be the result of a bacterial infection such as Salmonella or such. Many symptoms are the same and quite often, bacterial infections are mistaken for PMV. Which is why having antibiotic may prove helpful.

Can you post a photo of your new friend ?

Welcome and thanks for caring !!!


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

HI Jaye,
THanks so much for answering! (This forum stuff is so confusing to me)
Shes not walking around just staying in one spot.
I tried wtih a syringe putting some sugar water in hermouth. We could see her throat swallowing but also I think she was spitting or shaking some out. he did offer some resistance when we were handling her. She maybe seems stronger than this afternoon but maybe its wishful thinking. I dont think she has eaten any food and we are trying another type of bird food we have.
She got a baytril injection and my vet mixed some baytril with Vit A/D and I am supposed to give one drop orally twice a day.
I happen to have one 65 mg metronidazole (left over from a script for my cat) . I saw several references to htis drug I could get more tomorrow.
Yes I am worried about the mites, I will return ASAP to the pet store for that. I will try to get a pic How do I send?
Again, thanks so much!!!!
Donna Mae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Jaye,
I went to Pet Smart and they only had the same spray that I saw earlier. We tried to put some on her. I was afraid of overdoing it.
I took two picsbut we are trying to get the pics to the PC.
I really dont think she is eating or drinking. I will try some more of the sugar water.
Shes kinda puffed up. How do I feed the corn and peas? THanks,
Donna
I guess I better come upwith a name huh?


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Here are the pics (I think)


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK, she is pretty ill-looking. But she is an adult, so probably pretty robust.

What you need to do is keep her in a VERY warm space, talking about 80 degrees F.

if you cannot do that, get an electric heating pad and put it on low, under a layer of towel, as the lining to the box. Then cover the box halfway with a blanket or towel.

Feeding; pick her/him up, wrap in a towel so only the ehad sticks out. hold her in you lap with one arm, and reach with that hand to hold the head stady (pinch the head gently between thumb and forefinger). With the other hand (free hand) gently pry the beak open and pop in a pea or corn morsel, into the middle of the mouth (not the tip, not the throat) and close the beak. She should swallow by herself. She/he may not want to open the beak...but you have to gently be firm.

Try to feed about 10 morsels for the first 2 feedings. Space the feedings 2-3 hours apart. On the third feeding, increase to around 15-20 morsels. Star out with 3 feedings/day. Obviously, you ned not feed at night (say between 9PM-7AM).

Run the peas/corn under hot tap water until defrosted/thawed. Make sure the insides aren't still frozen. The morsels should be lukewarm when feeding.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Jaye,
Thank you so much for the help. I am pretty tired now so I think I will do the feeding in the morning. It 12 here on the east coast.
THanks again. O yes what about water? Also, will she spit the food out and if so, does that mean I am not putting it far enough in?
THanks again. I really appreciate it.
Donna Mae


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

Here's a video of how to feed peas or corn. I would feed at least both peas and corn to provide a more balanced diet. Peas for example have a very high protein content, almost 25%, which is far more than what's recommended for pigeons on a long term basis (around 13%).

Later, you could also try to find some special pigeon pellets that provide a more complete and balanced nutrition.






The pigeon in that video is very tame, a wild pigeon would probably need to be wrapped in a towel, as Jaye described. 
They may be more submissive when sick though. That wouldn't be so great, but it might make it easier to hand feed.


I wouldn't worry about the bugs that much, that doesn't seem to be the biggest of the pigeon's problems right now and they are not such a threat to people as you may think. That's not to say you shouldn't get rid of them anyway.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Walter and Jaye,
That is a cool video and helps. I am going to try it now. I have corn and will get peas later.
It is great having you all around to give such expert guidance.
Donna Mae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi!
Success! I was able to only do five pieces of corn. After I do one and try the second, she really fights me. So Iput her back in the box for a few minutes, then do one, try a second, she fights me, put herin the box for a few minutes etc etc. But I am really gratified to have been able to do this. I will continue throughout the day.
You are all the best!!
Donna Mae


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Hi Donna Mae, Welcome to PT and thank you for caring 
As Jaye said, she doesn't look like she feels too good. I would do as suggested and put her on a heating pad set on LOW and covered with a towel. Pigeons body temp runs around 106-108, so she needs the supplemented heat to help her fight whatever is going on with her. She also needs to stay hydrated, so putting a dash of salt and sugar in her water will help that. (salt and sugar in tepid water is a rehydrating solution).


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Msfreebird,Jaye and JOndove,
THanks for all the wonderful suggestions.
I will add some salt to her sugar water. SInce I dont think she is drinking on her own, how many ml ofthe solution should I administer?
ALso, how many corn/pea units should I aim for in a one day period?
THanks again
DOnnaMae
Msfreebird - cute pics! (The Chow also)


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

DonnaMae said:


> Hi!
> Success! I was able to only do five pieces of corn. After I do one and try the second, she really fights me. So Iput her back in the box for a few minutes, then do one, try a second, she fights me, put herin the box for a few minutes etc etc. But I am really gratified to have been able to do this. I will continue throughout the day.
> You are all the best!!
> Donna Mae


Hi DonnaMae, you are doing well with the bird so far.
When you say she really fights you, did you wrap her in a towel as Jaye suggested ? It really does help keep them calmer, and stops them being able to use their wings to givethem more momentum (although they will sometimes still try to shake their head away).
What I do is pick them up gently, and hold both the legs back towards the tail, talking to them gently at the same time also helps keep them calm,
Once you are holding her with legs back, take a towel & with one corner pointing to head gently drape the towel diagonally completely over her (covering head as well) & wrap both wing corners underneath her, not too tight, but tight enough to prevent wing movement, and still keeping legs straight back (this helps stop her using legs for purchase also).
Once completely wrapped, you can fold back the corner covering her head
to allow you access to her beak. This also gives a double layer of towel to support her neck & less movement to struggle.
When they are wraped like this, If you are sitting down, you can position the wrapped bird vertically between your knees giving yourself two free hands to feed.
I normally find that after the first 2 or three attempts to open beak & pop corn in, although they still try to avoid you opening their beak, they dont struggle so much & swallow very readily. (even had some that eventually opened their beak themselves when approaching with the peas or corn)


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

You should be able to feed at least 30 pieces of peas/corn at one feeding. In principle you don't want to overstrech the crop, but that amount is not too much for an adult pigeon. You should feel the crop, if it's not full, you can keep on feeding another 10-20 pieces. 

Another thing you should be careful about, you shouldn't feed again until the crop is empty, to avoid mixing new food with the old food, that could grow sour and cause problems. Well, in nature pigeons will eat, even when the crop is not empty, but it should empty completely at least once in 24 hours (overnight).

And yes, you need to wrap that pigeon up as suggested and feed her properly, 5 pieces is way too little.

...

The water contained in the corn and peas may be enough for her. Normally pigeons drink just a little water even when they eat dry seeds, about 50 ml per day.

But if she is severely dehydrayed or losing a lot of water in the droppings and not drinking by herself, you need to rehydrate her. Actually if severely dehydrated you shouldn't even feed her for now, but I hope that's not the case.

There's the danger that water could get in the airways if you force water in her beak, that's why I suggested you only do that if absolutely necessary. Are you sure she's not drinking? A scared pigeon may not drink with people around.

...

Could you post pictures of the droppings too?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A grown pigeon can eat 40 to 50 peas in one sitting. Put it in her mouth and push to the back of the throat, let her beak go and she will swallow it. You need to get it back far enough or she may throw it out. You will have to do this a couple of times a day. To try and get her to drink, gently dip her beak in a small crock of water, just up to her nostrils. Don't cover her nostrils with the water. Try this several times a day, and she may drink eventually. Until she does, you can fill an eye dropper with water, and drip it on the sides of her closed beak. They will often suck this in.
Make sure she is warm, and that her crop has emptied before feeding again. You don't want to add new food to old food in her crop.
I put the pigeon on my lap and against my stomach, wrap her to keep her still if you have to, and this gives me a lot of control of the bird. Then I com from behind her head with one hand, and use both hands to open her beak. The bird in that video is very calm and cooperative. Most rescues won't be that easy.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
OK Maybe my wrapping leaves something to be desired. And ok 30 pieces in one feeding and that is three times a day?
Rmember, I am entirely new to this. THe crop is where - down the throat going towards the chest? Is is easy to feel whether its full or empty?
I'll get pics of the poop. I just got some peas now - tried to get petit peas but wasnt able to - hope they are not too big or I can cut them in half.
THanks all for the assistance.
Donna Mae


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Toweling: Think of a Pigeon Burrito...that is how you wanna wrap...not too tightly, but snug enough to prevent wing movement.

Indeedy, as I noted, you can work up the # of morsels. This is an adult..she has been around the block a few times, probably, so in likelihood will put up even more of a struggle at handfeeding than an adolescent or fledgling would.
I have found, however, that starting with 10 in a feeding then, say over a period of 4 feedings...working the number up and up... is better than just trying to get 20, 30+ morsels down the Pigeon by the second feeding.

Don't push 30 morsels on the next feeding. Try 12-15. Then the subsequent feeding try, say 19-22. Then on the third feeding try to get it over 25. As noted:


Jay3 said:


> Make sure she is warm, and that her crop has emptied before feeding again. You don't want to add new food to old food in her crop.


All in all, this is good. You are doing great.

The Pigeon is on meds, and it seems you will get the handfeeding down. 
And there is likely no canker (at least visibly). 
So just keep the warmth up so she/he doesn't get chilled...and hopefully you will keep it all going in the right direction !


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

I think that even if she is wrapped well, its the little bobbing head that makes it difficult. I tried to feel what maybe is her crop - is that like an esophagus? - and I do feel something. But I dont think she ate anything yesterday so that should be empty no? I got a poop pic and I will send it. 
Tx,
DonnaMae


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yup...you hug the Pidgie Burrito with one arm ~ and you reach around with that same arm and hold the Pidgie Bobblehead still between your thumb and forefinger of the same arm/hand. Place the fingers just back of her/his eyes.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi DonnaMae...I took the liberty of figuring out how much your pigeon should be eating, based up on the calorie calculator on the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council site and available to members.
While I don't know how much your pigeon rescue weighs, I based the calculation on 320 grams w/ trauma. According to their calculator, the pigeon needs between 50 and 100 calories per day.* Take into account that each 1/2 cup of peas contains approximately 65 calories. I took it a step further and counted out how many peas fit into 1/2 cup. Now while no two peas are exactly a like and I was working with premium forced petite peas, [they actually look more normal pea size to me] I was able to site 185 peas into 1/2 cup.
You could divide the peas into 4 feedings, which would mean you would need to feed 45 peas each time, give or take.
Just to mention, if you keep the pigeon in a dark place, he will be more reluctant to eat on his own as it will be hard for him to see the food you have left for him.
If you have concerns he is dehydrated, turn him over, blown the feathers apart on the abdomen and if you see wrinkly skin, he is dehydrated.


* calorie intake for a growing pigeon would be higher.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
Here are hopefuly the pics of the poop


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Charis,
THat is an amazing amount of work you did. I hope yoiu are enjoying the 1/2 cup of peas. Hopefully Cinder starts eating becasue I dontthink Im ever going to be able to feed that many.
Ionly managedone picture, theothers are floating around somewhere in cyberspace.
THanks again to everyone.
ANd I loved the bobblehead comment!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It wasn't so much work, DonnaMae ... the peas fit back in the freezer bag quite nicely.
Pea popping is easy once you get the hang of it and the pigeon begins to understand what you are doing. Try popping 2-3 at a time.Often a couple of good meals will get the bird to eating again.
Another trick, is to put the bird in the arm of a long sleeve t shirt, with the head out the wrist. With the shirt, there is nothing to come un- wrapped and so it can be easier.
The poop doesn't look great to me but at least there is some substance to it.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Charis said:


> *It wasn't so much work, DonnaMae and the peas fit back in the freezer bag quite nicely.*
> Pea popping is easy once you get the hang of it and the pigeon begins to understand what you are doing. Try popping 2-3 at a time.Often a couple of good meals will get the bird to eating again.
> Another trick, is to put the bird in the arm of a long sleeve t shirt, with the head out the wrist. With the shirt, there is nothing to come un- wrapped and so it can be easier.
> The poop doesn't look great to me but at least there is some substance to it.


I hope Donna didn't get too cold in there....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye said:


> I hope Donna didn't get too cold in there....


Haha! Very funny me!!!I'll go edit and get her out of there.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Brrrr. I'm so chilled. Finally warm.
I think I have some good news to post. First, She picked up her wing and pecked at her side a few times. Is that a sign of grooming? Grooming is always a good thig.
Also, she pecked at - but did not eat - a sunflower seed heart. At least she pecked at it tho'. Tats the first time I saw her acknowledge food.
We owe it all to you folks!
Donna Mae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you hold her on your lap and against your stomach, and come from behind her head with one hand, she just can't bob her head all that much. You control that by coming from behind her head. She needs more food than she is getting. Just takes a little bit of practice.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Good to see another NJ person here! Keep it up. Watch those videos and get food into that poor guy/gal. Thank you for taking him/her in!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, grooming and picking...those are both good signs....& I would imagine there are actually lotsa Pigeon folk in NJ (?)....


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

It seems there's a lot of good signs actually, to sum it up:
1) She fights when you try to feed her
2) She is already trying to peck some seeds on her own
3) The poop is not so bad actually
4) She started to preen herself a little
5) You are out of the freezer, finally warm 

...

You can also check the keel (breast bone). There should be enough meat on each side of the bone, if the keel sticks out, then the pigeon has been eating very little food for a long time.

This is what a very hungry pigeon's poop would look like, almost no digested food, only green bile. In your picture the poop looks better.


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

Hopefully with all the good advice from people here, you'll be able to feed her properly now, maybe she'll even start eating by herself soon (by the way if she does start to eat, don't give her too many sunflower seeds, too much fat can damage her liver). 

So maybe we should start focusing more on the actual disease. 
I just read your initial post again. Does the pigeon still show the same neurological symptoms? I was wondering if you could describe that in more detail, maybe post a video

Or take a look at some videos on Youtube of pigeons with PMV.











Like Jaye already said, not only PMV can cause such symptoms. As far as I know this could be:

1) Paramyxovirosis (PMV) - there's no actual cure for that but with supportive care the pigeon will eventually shed the virus. Otherwise he/she will most likely die from starvation.

2) An advanced stage of Salmonella (Paratyphoid) - this can be treated with Baytril, I understand your vet gave one Baytril shot, but that's far from enough. I hope you are continuing the Baytril, as only one dose of antibiotic will not kill all the bacteria, what's worse, the bacteria will become more resistent. 

3) Severe vitamin B deficiency. Giving a sick pigeon some vitamins won't hurt anyway (as long as you don't overdose).

4) A concussion to the head (this seems to be the easiest to heal in most cases)


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Everybody,
Cinder the little bobble headed burrito is out of her box and walking around the attic room. When my husband checked on her (he came home from work before I did) , he says he put some corn/peas down - about 10 or 15 pieces - in her box before she flew the coop so to speak and they were gone when he checked again. THen later he saw her on the window sill, then later she was in another spot.
She has to be locked in the attic becasue we have six cats. We had seven - my 17 year old Cinder died on THursday, thus the name.
I just inserted several pieces in her mouth becasue I have to try to determine how much exactly she is eating on her own.
SHes been getting her baytril/vit drops twice a day and I have a space heater up there but can only have it on when we are home obviously. But its pretty warm up there now even with it off. SOmeone said earlier about feeling the crop for food.Is this something a novice can do?
So far, this is promising. But Im exhausted.\
Donna Mae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just count out 40 or 50 peas and corn. Put them in her box. When you get home, count them again. All should be gone.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi,
Yes that is my game plan. THere are 44 units in the dish. I'll see by morning.....
Goodnight all (or Good Morning to those on the other side of the ocean)
DonnaMae


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Let us know how it goes. However, they don't usually eat much in the dark. Better to count the ones you leave during the day.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I am sorry about your kitty, BTW. 17 years is a good, long life !

This is interesting...this is significant improvement while being on those meds...leads me to believe it is either a bacterial infection, maybe Salmonella/Paratyphoid or a concussion. Such a rapid improvement likely would not happen if it were a virus....(?)

Crop-checking. The crop is beneath the 'chin' and above the chest/breast. It is a "pre-stomach", so to speak. When a birdie eats, the food goes there and the crop fills, sorta like a balloon. Then it empties into the rest of the digestive tract. A 'full' crop appears like a small balloon under the feathers. If you touch it and push gently on it, it's squishy...imagine a water balloon filled with oatmeal,

If you hold Cinder after a good meal, feel the crop. Then come back several hours later and feel again. You should notice a difference.

Regarding heat: try not to make it sporadic. It's really important that she/he have constant heat source and a consistent temperature. As mentioned by someone else earlier...this isn't a matter of comfort. Supportive heat actually helps a bird to heal. Lack of it makes it that much more difficult for a Pigeon or any other bird to come back from illness.

You guys are doing very well...


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi All,
Ms. Bobble-Head was up and about again today. I had put her in her box before bed and after feeding this morning. She was out and about and when I came home she was perched on top of the door. SO obvioulsy she can fly short distances at least at this point. She has the stairway leading to the third floor, the landing and one room on the third floor. THis room does have a radiator and when we are home , we have an electric space heater on. But I cannot leave it on when we are out. I am too afraid of fires.
Yes it would be better if it was consistently very warm but this is the best I can do.
She did eat some peas and corn during the day but I wanted to feed her more tonight becsaue I forget how many I left her. She she didnt seem to be touching anything additional I putout so I started the feeding. Anyway, she became super bobble head and fluttered into her box!
I want to thank everyone. I wouldnt have had a clue what to do, I never would have known about the feeding. I would have watched her starve to death probably. 
We are not out of the woods yet I know. I will try to become sensitive to the feel of the crop. That will be helpful.
Donna Mae


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

*Not Sure How Much Progress We're Making*

Hi,
I took a better look at those videos that Walter posted of the pigeons with PMV. It looked like the first one really had that neuro neck motion. ALso, in spite of their pecking, was the food just coming out of the mouth? Is that a symptom? They dont swallow?
Yesterday I was at the vets with oneof my cats and he asked me if the neurological neck movement was better. Becasue on Sat, she was turning her neck backwards, like the videos.
I think that is better. She really isnt turning it backwards anymore. And of course, on Sat and Sun, she just stayed in the box all day and night. Now she is up and about. On topof the door, on the ledge in front of the window, on a shelf etc. I dont actually see her fly although last night after I finished feeding her she fluttered into her box. I also dont see her walking. When I unwrap her and put her down, at first shesnot real steady. But I think that might be improving.
She is not eating during the day. I thought on Monday (or maybe Tues) she ate, but definately not today nor yesterday.
She is stronger and seems to offer more resistance when I feed her. But sometimes, the peas/corn seem to be poppingout and I hope its not like those neuro birds in the video.
She doesnt seemed to have touched her seed tray at all. Im wondering what else to offer her.
She certainly has not gotten worse, THere are alot of signs of improvement. Maybe I needmore patience?

DonnaMae


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes....exactly. All signs point to improvement, but it takes some signs for neurological symptoms to diminish, if they ever disappear completely. Just be patient. If it's bacterial, the mes are working. If it's a concussion, then time will heal. If PMV, time will shed the virus...

I would not worry about not eating on her own yet. Just keep up with the handfeeding. No, PMV nor Salmonella nor a concussion do not prevent the Pigeon from swallowing. If she 'spits' them out then they are not going all the way down the throat. Just persevere, gently.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Hi Jaye,
THanks so much. Its reassuring to know its just a technique issue. Im off from work today so have a little more time to really observe her last night and thismorning. IN the beginning, she really wasnt taking any steps at all. Now when she steps, its little baby steps but mostly either sideways or backwards. But at least she is doing that and also obviuosly flying to reach these higher places. But are those side/back steps neuro manifestations?
What other food can I leave to tempt her? She is not liking our premium bird food that we have for our feeders. I had received that earlier caveat about the sunflower seeds being potentially bad for the liver in large quantities, but shes not interested in them anyway.
I will try the pet stores today and if I find those pigeon pellets that have been referenced here, can I hand feed them to her or are they too hard (I imagine them being really hard little balls).
She is so cute. Such sweet faces they have! 
DonnaMae


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's the thing....if she is not eating on her own, it's likely because of teh neurological impairment. Therefore continue hand-feeding.

If you handfeed some Parrot Pellets you want the Conure-sized ones. But if you buy Pellets to put in a food bowl, you want the Budgie sized pellets.

Keep in mind that a young Pigeon may not recognize seed, either. Out there in the Feral world, they are eating icky food scraps...


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Where in NJ are you? Most Agways have pigeon food as well as other types of bird food. They sell it by the pound......I think the pigeon food is 0.69 a pound and you would only need a pound or so to try at first. Good luck with him!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When you hand feed put the pellet in her mouth and push it toward the back of the throat. Then let her close her beak and swallow. If she is spitting it out, then you need to push it back further. If you are right handed, hold the bird on your lap, and against your stomach, and facing your right. Come from behind her head with your left hand and with your thumb and middle finger or fore finger, clasp the sides of her beak. Now she can't move her head away. Now open her beak with those fingers of your left hand, and your thumb and index finger of your right hand. She really can't do much at this point.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

DonnaMae said:


> Hi Jaye,
> THanks so much. Its reassuring to know its just a technique issue. Im off from work today so have a little more time to really observe her last night and thismorning. IN the beginning, she really wasnt taking any steps at all. Now when she steps, its little baby steps but mostly either sideways or backwards. But at least she is doing that and also obviuosly flying to reach these higher places. But are those side/back steps neuro manifestations?
> What other food can I leave to tempt her? She is not liking our premium bird food that we have for our feeders. I had received that earlier caveat about the sunflower seeds being potentially bad for the liver in large quantities, but shes not interested in them anyway.
> I will try the pet stores today and if I find those pigeon pellets that have been referenced here, can I hand feed them to her or are they too hard (I imagine them being really hard little balls).
> ...


Pigeons are extremely intelligent, and if they have neurological problems or a deformity they 'learn' how to live with it. If they want to go someplace (i.e.,food dish, perch, other side of the cage) they will keep trying different techniques to get there. I have one pigeon (I keep in the house) with a severely deformed leg......it's backwards and up over his back. He has the use of only 1 leg. All of his movements are backwards and sideways. He has 2 cedar fence posts in his 'handicap cage' (a converted ferret cage), one is 3" tall and the other about 6" tall (5" in diameter). He has learned to back up to the shorter one, jumps up on it (backwards), then uses his wings (flapping) to get up on the taller one. He has also mastered 'parallel parking' for the food, water dish and his favorite sleeping spot 
Their power of thinking/reason is incredible! Have you ever seen any of the research done on them?...........The 'pigeon and banana test'?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDntbGRPeEU
Watch it! There not stupid.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes..........I've seen that banana test one. It's amazing.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

THe activity in that video is incredible! I would consider that as "using tools". 
MY little girl is so cute she goes into her box at bedtime. I guess that is her roost?
Gnite.


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## DonnaMae (Mar 24, 2012)

Well, I think we are at a stalemate. My little girl is sort of status quo. Won't eat on her own. Does go up to perch on high places - thats where I find her when I come home from work. And last night too, after her last feeding when I went to check on her before bed. I put her in the box overnight. Dont know if its good or bad but Im afraid she may fall. She doesn walk much in front of ma at least. Takes more side steps or no steps. Its been nine days. How long do these viruses last? Do you think she has brain damage? I feel bad becasue she is isolated upstairs and I cant spend alot of time with her. Is patience needed or do you think there is a problem? Her feathers under her beak look a little ratty suddenly and Im not sure if maybe the peas/corn pieces are just in more jiuce so when I feen her, she gets wet in that area.
This is bothersome. It seemed like she was making progress after two days but we are not continuing the upward trend.
DonnaMae
ps I cant find pigeon pellets anywhere= PetSMart, Petco, NJPets. DOnt have any Agway around here in South Orange.


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