# Finnegan



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I thought I would put this here as it shifts from a found pigeon to a (hopefully) recovery story. It's copied from another thread, but this time I have some pics to include.

Well here is an update on this guy's condition. Debra did bring him out on Tuesday night, and he is a gorgeous fellow with quite a calm disposition. I had a chance that night to trim away feathers from around his wound, which is the outside of his right leg. It appeared the flesh had been completely removed and the muscle tendons and possibly bones were visible. The surface had hardened up, darkened, and congealed and it was a very nasty looking wound, although there was no sign of infection, luckily. Thinking about it through the evening I decided the wound should be evaluated by a vet so made plans to take him straight to our preferred pidgie vet first thing Wed. morning. Unfortunately when I arrived I learned she was away at a conference! They referred me to another clinic quite a long distance away where they are known to treat wild birds and so have experience beyond the usual hookbill varieties. The vet at that clinic did a nice thorough exam, and did clean & debride the hardened wound. He told me that he'd found the 'missing' flesh had been peeled away but was still attached, it had become bunched and crusted up in the blood and feathers. When he cleaned away the scabby surface the tissue still appeared pink and healthy, so to his (and my) surprise he felt it might be possible to close the wound after all this time and have some successful healing. Well, I hadn't taken the bird to a vet just to say something like "no leave it like it is!" so I felt it best to let _him _do as _he _felt best. It looked like there was enough tissue to close maybe 75% of the wound. In the end, he found there was more there than he thought and he ended up fully closing it over. 

So now, we have to hope that no infection sets in again, as now the wound was rubbed raw - I know that is proper wound treatment technique but I tell you I have mixed feelings and doubts about having done it. Maybe it would have healed fine, with significant scarring, if left alone. I sure hate not having a crystal ball. I just wish I knew for sure that we've done the right thing.

He is taking baytril twice daily by mouth, and the Dr. wants me to get him trimethoprim sulfa as well, which I don't have  He also is taking metacam twice daily and I have a tube of analgesic/anti-fungal/anti-biotic ointment to apply to the wound. The bill came to over $100 (yikes) but he was nice about pricing some services lower for me. And Debra contributed some cash when she dropped him off so I only ended up with about $75 of it.

I'm sorry I don't' have a picture yet to share, I intended to take one before tending to him this morning but my camera was out in the car and I didn't bother going after it. I will take a pic this afternoon so you can see it. I must say that last night, the wound looked clean and the flesh nice and pink and I held my breath thinking it would heal fine. This morning it looked rather angry and red, but maybe that is to be expected after the 'abuse' it received yesterday!?

He is also limping badly on it, not surprising I suppose, and seems in discomfort which is a step back as he'd been acting like he felt no pain at all prior to his vet visit. But bless his little heart, he was picking at some seeds when I left for work this morning. Everybody, wings and spare digits X'd for little "Finnegan" as he might like to be called.

Here are some pics of Finn and his leg wound:

























It pretty much runs the length of his leg from shoulder (hip?) to ankle. Of course he wanted to curl up into a ball just for the pictures, and no one was around to help hold him so I could extend the leg for a nice clear shot.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Poor little guy! I hope he is able to recover quickly. Of course Finnegan is one of the best names ever, just as my black lab.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

it is a cute name 

I don't like the look of some of the flesh there, but, it is also perhaps stained by me applying dilute betadine twice a day and it looks a bit shiny, that's the ointment he gave me to wipe on it. I just hope it heals properly. I know there is a lot of healing to do beyond just knitting up the edges, because all the tissue underneat there was exposed and it has to grow back together


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Snipes, I hope it heals also. Nice looking bird, and I am sure he/she is thankful for your help. Maybe in a week it will look better? Hope all goes well .


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Nope, not the hip. The forward most part of the laceration is just over the patella (kneecap) and proceeds down the tibiotarsus (fibula, too, but that's just a vestigial bone on them). That'd be the same as from the knee halfway down to the ankle on us. The actual hip where the femur hinges on what passes for a pelvis is way back to the left in that bottom picture, almost as far to the left of the center of the wound as the point of your thumb is to the right.

The actual leg probably doesn't feel as bad as the skin around it when he moves. You see, in them the thigh and knee is kind of encased in the skin of the trunk, which makes it a real pain in the keister to treat broken femurs and breaks in the proximal tibiotarsus (up close to the true knee). You're going to have to keep an eye on that wound to see if the edges heal together properly. When they've been open for too long, they sometimes start forming scar tissue underneath that you can inadvertantly cover over when you pull the skin back together. When that happens, it forms a soft scab-like material that eventually has to be removed manually. It's okay as there's little to no danger to the bird, it's just the inconvenience of having to mess with it every few days. It's a wait-and-see deal.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Check out the drawings here to see that skeletal structure better:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Looking for contributions for this bird's medical care. If a few people could contribute 5-10 dollars, it would really help. Let me know if you can and I will give you the address where you can mail it.
We only need to raise about $55.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well I'm in for a donation and it is in the mail tomorrow morning. Hope all goes well. He is a beautiful bird oh my gosh is he pretty. 

Cindy


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Thank you Charis, and thank you, Cindy. Little Finnzamin appreciates it as much as I do


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Other members will be sending you financial aid too.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Snipes,
Thank you so much for all you are doing for Finnegan. He is adobable. That leg will heal up just fine. He will look great in about four weeks.

Margaret


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi Margaret, thanks so much. I hope you are right - and you sure are the expert at wound treatment/healing now!!!


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Hes so pretty  Thank you for mending the cute little guy..what a sweet little bird.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Some new pics of his leg. Still me, myself, and I trying to hold the bird, position the wing out of the way, and snap a picture. I've come to the conclusion that 2 hands isn't maybe the best design. I need at least 3, 4 would be awesome.

Anyway, here's his leg now. We can only see the outside part, which to my inexperienced eyes does not look too bad. What do you think? I hope the inside tissue where the inner workings of his leg were exposed for 5 days, is doing as well...there is a bit of staining from the betadine I dab it with. The bottom stitch looks to me like it might be pulling away. The vet was concerned about the flesh in that zone and thought it might dry up and pull out of the stitches, so maybe that's what's going on. I hope not


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Under the circumstances, that's looking pretty good. I wouldn't worry except to keep him on an antibiotic. At the rate it's going, it's just going to get more and more manageable as time goes on (smaller and smaller). So, if you did get one small part pulling away, it's still going to be a smaller wound to work with. They (pigeons) heal surprisingly well.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At the worst, it might not heal together but it would be forming scar tissue underneath that will seal over the muscles anyhow. In such a case, you end up with flaps of skin that will eventually pull in and take the place of the scar membrane anyhow. It takes awhile but it's no reason to give up.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Here is another 48 hours worth of (hopefully) healing:










I think the camera accentuates things. It really does look better (to me) in person than in this image.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Snipes,

That is looking quite good. The swelling has gone down and some of the bruising is starting to decrease already. When do the sutures come out?

Margaret


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If you can pick the deeper scabs out, it'll knit together faster. They can't push that stuff out of the way on their own very easily or quickly. When you pick them out, they usually heal up incredibly fast as their metabolisms are so much faster than ours.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Well, let's see...it was last wednesday he got sutured up, so tomorrow it's a week. The vet said the sutures would go away on their own, but he didn't say how long it would take. 

Pidgey: I am pretty sure I'm afraid to pick at it. What if it opens back up? Maybe i will try to gently poke at some of the scab and see how it feels


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> Well, let's see...it was last wednesday he got sutured up, so tomorrow it's a week. The vet said the sutures would go away on their own, but he didn't say how long it would take.
> 
> Pidgey: I am pretty sure I'm afraid to pick at it. What if it opens back up? Maybe i will try to gently poke at some of the scab and see how it feels


 ... ...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, you don't pick at the entire thing at once--you just pick one small spot and see how it goes. Haven't you ever had a scab on yourself that wouldn't heal right because of its own obstruction? You know, they start itching and you pick at the edges? It's kinda' the same thing here. You oughta' see a pigeon going after something like that that they can reach easily--no mercy.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> ... ...


LOL! That's about how I felt!

I did examine it this a.m. when dosing his meds and dabbing a bit of ointment on it. I lightly touched the scabbiest parts to get a feel for them, but then left them alone  

He is becoming quite the back-pedaler! He seems to feel better and is becoming feisty. He has a next-door neighbor, a feral pidgie who lost his right primaries in some altercation last fall. I just took him in the same week Finnegan came, and with that one, we are just waiting to molt and replace all those feathers. He is quite unhappy in his small cage but it's all I can offer him. He/she has fallen completely in love with Finnegan and spends dawn to dusk cooing relentlessly with his head tucked down to the ground or under his papers. Yesterday, he shredded his papers and when I went in this morning to clean and feed, he was engaged in some kind of effort to cover himself in the pieces. So today when I cleaned his cage I gave him a nice big handful of straw to play with. I'm sure he wants to make a nest and have someone (Finny, I guess!) climb into it with him.


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## Debra (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks for the great update. Just think that less than 2 weeks ago, Finnigan was sitting on the edge of a busy Expressway entrance, in the cold rain, being bounced by the wind of oncomming cars, unable to open his beak as it was caked with blood. Who knows how long he was there. And now he is being courted by another of his own kind and taken care of by a loving human. These are the things dreams are made of.     
I am so happy this turned out well and am so glad I met all of you and found this great site.

Debra


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm so glad to read that Finnegan is on the mend.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

*Another update*

Well, little Finnzamin has had a bit of a setback. When his stitches eroded, or whatever it is they do, I'm afraid his wound opened up like a zipper. Late last week I was able to see it was going to probably open up all the way again.








This pic looks worse than it is cuz it has cream on it, it isn't really that slimy. 

Monday this week I took him to my regular avian vet, to show her the newly re-opened wound and see what she thought. She gave me 2 baggies crammed with gauze pads soaked in some surgical scrub and demonstrated how to scrub it clean. Twice a day I have to subject him to that, but he is a very good pigeon and he just lies there and lets me do it. It must be sore.

The one difference this time I guess is that the wound is being kept clean and I'm told it will heal from within, slowly, given enough time. I'm keeping Finny on the trimethoprim/sulfa and the metacam for now, but have quit the baytril. I also have some cream to rub into it after it's washed. I am not sure how many more days of antibiotic he'll be on, I have to check back with the vet for sure. It's been 14 days already, originally the 1st vet told me 14-21 days.

I haven't had the darn camera handy to get a pic but am going to try and remember it this evening so I can get a current shot of what it looks like. The above pic is 4 days old.

Finn's in great spirits, seems to have no idea that anything is wrong. He eats well and I think if he could get in the same cage with the neighbor bird all would be right with the world. He was so very happy to be 'reunited' with him after another day-long ordeal in the back seat of the car on Monday he climbed his cage and flapped and cooed his little beak off.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

*Thank you Snipes for the update, I was wondering how Finny was getting along. I'm glad his spirits are up and his poor wound hasn't gotten him down.*


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Snipes, Finny is looking good, and I hope his would does heal. It sure looks better than it did!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, that's about what I thought it might do that I was hinting about. It's just an inconvenience and it will heal in time. Personally, I'd just about always use a Prolene in pigeons on an old wound. If it's absolutely fresh, you can go with Chromic Gut or several other absorbables (don't use silk) but you're asking for it on an older wound that's not too happy about sticking back together anyhow. It'd be nice to tack that flap back up in place but as long as he stays on the antibiotic, it'll eventually get there. It's just a longer, more messy road to take.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I don't know what Prolene is, but if it is a suture that holds longer, then that sounds right. I was so disappointed when it opened, you can't imagine, cuz it was pink and wet and healthy looking in there I have a feeling that if the interface (?) could have been kept closed long enough, it would have taken.

I am happy to hear suggestions on how long for the antibiotic and dosages, as to wound cleaning I am no doubt not aggressive enough. I am seeking counseling on that too


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Prolene is a monofilament suture that's basically like fish line. If you want them out, you have to take them out. They're harder to tie and make the knot stay fast but at least they're not going to dissolve. Pigeons can sometimes untie the knots, though, if they keep pecking at them. There are many other similar such types of suture.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Flash pictures tend to "flatten" the image, making depth perception more difficult for the observer. Can you take another picture or two from different angles?

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I will, I have the camera handy and will get some at the a.m. bullying  My light source is a little "headlamp" thing I wear on my forehead whenever I have to treat or dose any birds. It really helps me see what I'm doing. I will turn the flash off to be sure it's the spot doing the lighting.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Here is a new pic from this morning. The non-flash pics came out blurry so I guess I have to use it. The yellowish scabby looking stuff, is I *think* what the vet wants me to remove every time, and so I did. At this point I had just soaked it a bit in one of the gauze pads to soften it up. 

There is a bit of yellowish tissue or crud at the top, this actually extends under the skin..I can remove it if I am really tenacious about it but I am not sure if it is wound-ooze or tissue??? It looks like fat tissue to me? Should I be taking that off? I have to lift his skin and dig underneath it to get it all, and I'm not sure how far it goes up inside there.  

His skin to the top and right of the wound (right and bottom in the pic) looks very yellowish. This is true in real life too. I am not sure if it is stained from the betadine I was using before, or if it is taking on this color due to healing or worse, infection? 

To me it looks like it's trying to draw in or close a tad around the edges. It seems smaller to me.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, it's getting smaller. That's only an ooze problem, what you got there--a mess but no real danger. You can see some evidence of slight inflammation in that yellow coloring in the skin amongst the feather nubs up between the wound and your thumb. That'll eventually go away, too. Lookin' good.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

*Update*

Here is Finn's little leg this morning:










It really has gotten small (the wound, not the leg)! I hope it looks as good to everyone here as I think it does?  There is still a stitch, visible up high. Maybe an anchoring stitch? If I could see worth a damn I'd nip it out but I'll have to do that with a magnifying glass and something tells me he won't lie still while I hold that *and* my snips...

I am still cleaning and medicating twice daily. He is having secondary issues, no doubt as a result of the medication so long. He is getting nystatin twice a day for yeast, which has been obvious in his mouth. I really would like to get him off the antibiotic but earlier in the week the vet said no (I sent her a pic by email). I'm going to send her this one and ask again.

Today when I checked his mouth I got a bit scared cuz something in there doesn't look white and 'fluffy' how yeast normally looks, it looks more like canker. I hope he doesn't end up having that too!? No way I can get a pic of that till they graft on those extra arms.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the outside's sure looking good. Personally, I'd tend to let the antibiotics go and make sure that you get some Nystatin painted on the inside of the beak all over.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I do try to dribble some into his cheeks and beak, the rest I put down his throat. I did send this pic to my vet just now and asked again if it is safe to stop or reduce or change the meds.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

:Snipes, Finny looks soooo much better you are doing a great job with him.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Here, his vet's reply tonight:

"Go ahead and quit. Just watch for any yellow crud coming back and restart 
if that occurs.

It looks quite good!"

So lucky him, well, we'll see!? I will monitor him closely and continue to clean and dress his wound without the drugs and hopefully soon his biggest problem will be frustratoin at being confined in such small cage! 

Thanks all for all the good thoughts!!!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Snipes, that is good news about Finn.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Just a quick update. Finn has been off his meds for about a week, and last night when I got him out to check his leg, I honestly *could not find *the wound. To say the least I am stunned at how quickly and well that leg healed. I did bathe the leg in the cleansing solution and pushed all the feathers aside, but try as I may I couldn't see any trace of it. It's like it wasn't ever there.

He has a small bulge of still slightly yellowish skin to the side of it, also the feathers look a little odd or stunted there. I think the skin fold kind of lumped up there and I don't know if it's anything of concern, I suppose it will just reabsorb, or ??? on its own. 

I hope that this is the final post in this thread about Finnegan's troubles, well I guess I'd like to add just one more, when he gets moved into his new coop and meets his new friends, or maybe some day when he (she?) finds a mate and settles down.

Thanks to everyone for all your helpful advice & support, Finnegan







you. 

(And a very special







from me for the very generous and compassionate members who helped shoulder the financial burden!)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

LOL...You are so clever!


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