# Hydrogen peroxide for sick pigeons?



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

No, I'm not insane! 

Just recently I found out about the therapeutic value of food grade hydrogen peroxide for humans, which has got be wondering about its potential uses for seriously ill pigeons. Food grade Hydrogen peroxide is a specific type which is free of stabilizers (unlike the kind you can buy at a drug store) and it comes in a specific concentration (35%); I first read about it here :

http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/hydrogen_peroxide.html

Its very interesting as it apparently can be used as a powerful anti-bacterial, anti fungal, anti-viral (!) and even anti-cancer agent in humans. Its been said to cure fungus, human cankers, malaria, cholera, and melanoma cancer amongst many other things. I also found out that hydrogen peroxide is released naturally by the body when cells are stressed , and it stimulates white cell production & action against disease. 

This got me thinking about its uses in treating critically ill pigeons who often suffer from a deadly combination of many of the above ailments. I have searched the interent, and all I came up with was a report from one pigeon fancier on another forum who swears by using 1/3 of teaspoon hydrogen peroxide toa cup of water for his expensive dying pigeons, as a kind of last ditch effort to save its life. He claims that it works, but did not specify the concentration or type of hydrogen peroxide used.

Does anyone here have any experiences with hydrogen peroxide that they could share? 

.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

This is what I could find

_"Drinking Water of Farm Animals:
Use 8 ounces of 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide per 1000 gallons of water of 30 ppm. If you do not have an injector, start out by using 1 teaspoon of 35% hydrogen peroxide in the drinking cups at the stanchion. This same ratio is used for all farm animals: cows, pigs, poultry, sheep, goats, rabbits and birds, increasing the oxygen level to the blood and cells. When hydrogen peroxide has been used for cattle, an increase in milk production and an increase in butterfat content have been reported. Farmers have also reported less mastitis in their herds. Hog farmers have reported less mastitis in their herds. Hog farmers have reported their hogs using less feed in a shorter growing time (as much as 30 days less). Turkey and chicken growers reported increased weight per bird using less feed. A man in Wisconsin has told us that he has had the best reproduction rate of his buffalo by using hydrogen peroxide in their drinking water. 

Peroxide application into the well water, or city water can best be accomplished by a metering device, which keeps the application more constant and thorough although manual application can be a second best. The rule of thumb is 8 to 10 oz. of 35% hydrogen peroxide to 1000 gallons water."_

Additional generic info:

http://www.agriorganics.com/agriculture.php?Pid=12
http://www.cleansing.com/hoxy.htm
http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml
http://www.h2o2hydrogenperoxide.com/ref.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think they just want to sell their book.... I would not put much into it IMO.

if this fancier that used it likes it, then he needs to know what and why he is treating his birds, what is it curing? does he know? why are his birds dying in the first place?... is he just giving it hoping it will help? If he actuall knew why they were sick perhaps there is better treatments for that specific illness. thats what I would think.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Never have heard of this - although I wouldn't dismiss it so fast


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

This is from the book *Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 Medical Miracle - William Campbell Douglass, MD (2003)*


> Many people are now recommending hydrogen peroxide by mouth. It appears efficacious by mouth, but extreme caution has been advised. Absorbate, iron and fats in the stomach change H2O2 into superoxide free radicals. These free radicals can do severe damage to the lining of the stomach...


I use it as a mouthwash as per advise of my dentist, but would be wery cautious to use it on my birds if at all.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I believe there is a doctor that is treating people for all sorts of things by flushing them out with peroxide. I think he's putting it in their blood. I can't remember the details, I need to find the story.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

http://www.garynull.com/documents/arthritis/hydrogen_peroxide_therapy.htm


Just remember, FOOD GRADE. The other kind in the big brown bottles (well here they are, haha), can cause some gastric issues if swallowed. Also remember to use distilled water, to avoid chemicals from bonding into more dangerous things.


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## Foundabird (Apr 2, 2010)

Hydrogen peroxide, as Im sure many of you know, is used to induce vomitting in many animals after ingesting a toxic substance. Hydrogen peroxide is also found naturally in the body, however is toxic. The only reason it is not is do to an enzyme, Peroxisome, that destroy/neutrilize it in cells.

Personally I do not recommend it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you, Foundabird.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I think that Charis would like to welcome you Foundabird and your information is just wonderful and I thank you as well--what a wonderful resource you are going to be for you sound very experience with animals....The reason that I am picking on "old Charis" (don't really know her age) LOL is because she never thanked me for anything--welcome aboard Foundabird....c.hert


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I would like to offer my sincere THANK YOU to all our members who spend their time and contribute sound advice, each and every day.... and a special thank you to you c hert.*


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## Foundabird (Apr 2, 2010)

Thank you guys. I just do what I can to help.


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

wow,-is this sci-fi or what.??-not consistant with labeling,,diluted-can be used for a mouth wash(gingevitis),-but-deliberately-tainting drinking water-goes far beyond my limits./.there was a member some time ago ,who had it in his head to use clorox bleach,,wow...sincerely james waller


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

c.hert said:


> I think that Charis would like to welcome you Foundabird and your information is just wonderful and I thank you as well--what a wonderful resource you are going to be for you sound very experience with animals....The reason that I am picking on "old Charis" (don't really know her age) LOL is because she never thanked me for anything--welcome aboard Foundabird....c.hert



Now, now...I do remember complimenting you though, c hert.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea if I look real hard maybe...c.hert


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for your responses. 

I went ahead and purchased some 35% food grade peroxide which arrived this week. My research into FGHP is looking very positive, and pretty much mirrors sreesh's very informative post above. Most of the info for its use regards livestock and humans, so I'm yet to find dosage info that I'm comfortable with using in pigeons.

I should say that I live in Australia, and its illegal to treat, or seek treatment for feral pigeons here. We don't even have any animal humanity laws to protect them, so obtaining many types of conventional meds & veterinary treatment is out of the question.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Bella, I just want to make note, and as you may already know, that 35% food grade peroxide is at a very high concentration and extremely oxidative, so if you get any on your hands you need to rinse immediately or you will see white oxidative burns. Also, for comparison 35% peroxide will be 10 times higher in concentration than the 10 Volume peroxide typically found at most drug stores.

I know there are recommendations for use in animals for peroxide, but these recommendations are for larger animals with much larger, more robust gastrointestinal organs, than a bird's more delicate ones. What ever you do, please be very careful with this chemical, as even a small mistake will bring harm to a bird.

I know where you are is complicated with getting proper medicines and treatment for ferals, but I would consider the internal use of peroxide in pigeons experimental. If it were an effective product to use in pigeons, I am sure, with the amount of pigeon fanciers in the world, and I know they do like to sometimes use unorthodox treatments and methods, there would be good reference recommendations for its use and I am unaware of any.

I am not saying I would not consider using it, but it would be only as a salvage therapy. Salvage therapy is were you use unconventional treatments, methods and/or medicines to try to save a life were all other attempts with conventional therapy has failed and you are at the end of the road. You have conceded the patient is certainly going die, so there is not much to lose in trying something experimental as a long shot.

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Bella...I agree with Dobato.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks Dobato, I appreciate the info and caution.

I can say with passion that I have no intention of experimenting on sick or even dying birds, so don't worry I am only trying to find more specific info about dosages at this stage. 

The dosage info for pigeons is hard to come by, but apart from skepticism from people who have never used it and don't really know much about it, I have yet to come across any stories of people using it unsuccessfully ...like causing a disaster or anything like that. On the contrary, there is plenty of information expressing the opposite. And basically, I personally find the science to be sound after several weeks of research.

The most specific dosage info I found was on a pigeon breeders mailing list, and i am trying to get in contact with the person who wrote some details there.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> The dosage info for pigeons is hard to come by, but apart from skepticism from people who have never used it and don't really know much about it, I have yet to come across any stories of people using it unsuccessfully ...like causing a disaster or anything like that. On the contrary, there is plenty of information expressing the opposite. And basically, I personally find the science to be sound after several weeks of research.
> 
> The most specific dosage info I found was on a pigeon breeders mailing list, and i am trying to get in contact with the person who wrote some details there.


Bella, I am familiar with 35% food grade peroxide because I have used it many times before, and in fact have a bottle in my fridge right now (it must be kept refrigerated, by the way) and I mostly use it diluted down with water as a soak for raspberries and strawberry's to deal with mold concerns I have for both of these berries, but I am quite familiar with its use as well in humans.

Peroxide in one of the chemicals I don't think that a dose can easily be converted or extrapolated for use in birds, as mentioned before, a small amount of oxidation caused by peroxide to our esophagus or GI tract is going to minor, at the correct concentration/dose, but this same dose may prove harmful to a bird's. I think that you not being able to find good references should serve as a further caution, as if it was effective, or safe, I feel it would be in use by fanciers, as these guys really do know a lot about our beloved pigeons, and I also feel that one reference really does not have much meaning for its efficaciousness in birds/pigeons.

Karyn


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

This would be a good read for general info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide


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## Khalid (Apr 30, 2010)

dear veiwers, hi to every one i am a pigeon fancier from pakistan keeping pigeons from 3 years, i have more than 50 pairs in my loft, u can visit my site www.multanfancypigeons.co.cc, now i am facing a problem my young birds dying daily 3 or 4 pcs daily, its hot season here but i keep birds in cool place young pigeons at the age of 1 month to 4 months affecting with vomating, yellow and green droppings, diarreha, not a pigeon speciallst here, poulrtry doctors say its adeno virus, nothing working, used high antibiotics and tony treasure tablets, but no respone young dying in 24 hrs only, others adult birds ok, can somebody help me????.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Khalid, its better you start a new thread on the same, click on this link http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/ and then click on "new thread".

I am not able to make out what the cause is from the description, if its only a set of birds in the loft being affected, then it may be the onset of an infectious disease or possible chances of poisoning


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Lokking up for Adeno virus, it causes respiratory problems, eye infections, diaorrhea, vomiting, etc. There are no antiviral drugs to treat adenoviral infections, so treatment is largely directed at the symptoms (such as acetaminophen for fever). A doctor may give antibiotic eyedrops for conjunctivitis, since it takes a while to test to see if the eye infection is bacterial or viral and to help prevent secondary bacterial infections.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Khalid said:


> dear veiwers, hi to every one i am a pigeon fancier from pakistan keeping pigeons from 3 years, i have more than 50 pairs in my loft, u can visit my site www.multanfancypigeons.co.cc, now i am facing a problem my young birds dying daily 3 or 4 pcs daily, its hot season here but i keep birds in cool place young pigeons at the age of 1 month to 4 months affecting with vomating, yellow and green droppings, diarreha, not a pigeon speciallst here, poulrtry doctors say its adeno virus, nothing working, used high antibiotics and tony treasure tablets, but no respone young dying in 24 hrs only, others adult birds ok, can somebody help me????.




Although there is no way to be certain,sounds like young bird sickness. All you can do is eliminate canker, worms, coccidia bacteria and hope for the best.
Let me find you something to read about young bird sickness.

http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers1.php

http://www.albertaclassic.net/E.coli/sickness.php


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

sreeshs said:


> This would be a good read for general info
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide


Thanks sreesh, I'll look at that one too.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dobato said:


> Peroxide in one of the chemicals I don't think that a dose can easily be converted or extrapolated for use in birds, as mentioned before, a small amount of oxidation caused by peroxide to our esophagus or GI tract is going to minor, at the correct concentration/dose, but this same dose may prove harmful to a bird's.
> Karyn


Hi Karyn, I do totally agree with you, and I am very cautious about its use for the reasons you described. 

The things swaying me are basically having limited options (no conventional medicines to use apart from a wormer and a useless sulfur drug called tetracycline) as well as reading multiple hopeful stories about it curing viruses and turning around serious illness in birds that do not respond to other treatment. There is something seductive in the idea of such a simple, readily available product curing cancers, fungus, bacteria, parasites, and viruses with just one product. Especially since dying birds react so poorly to strong meds anyway. My research has a long way to go, but I haven't discounted it yet.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Bella...most often if something sounds too good to be true...such as the second to last sentence in your post above...then it is too good to be true.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> Bella...most often if something sounds too good to be true...such as the second to last sentence in your post above...then it is too good to be true.


Charis, I would be very receptive to speculations such as this if you could point me in the direction of some facts, anecdotal accounts, and/or publications that support your view. If not, then I have to put this down to an emotional/ego response only. In my research, I have to discard such views unless they backed by experience and fact. That goes for the `yays' as well as the `Nays'.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Along similar lines, are the research and testimonies however to be regarded, as concern Chlorine Dioxide.

Sometimes called 'Miracle Mineral Solution'


Chlorine Dixode is also called 'Oxine'...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Khalid said:


> dear veiwers, hi to every one i am a pigeon fancier from pakistan keeping pigeons from 3 years, i have more than 50 pairs in my loft, u can visit my site www.multanfancypigeons.co.cc, now i am facing a problem my young birds dying daily 3 or 4 pcs daily, its hot season here but i keep birds in cool place young pigeons at the age of 1 month to 4 months affecting with vomating, yellow and green droppings, diarreha, not a pigeon speciallst here, poulrtry doctors say its adeno virus, nothing working, used high antibiotics and tony treasure tablets, but no respone young dying in 24 hrs only, others adult birds ok, can somebody help me????.


Khalid...Hopefully, the following may help! GOOD LUCK!!

Shi 

*Carrot Juice*

*This was passed onto me by several members of the club & friends, I believe it was originally posted on a WOE site. It's a very interesting article.
This may be of interest to a few.....Some of the readers are aware that I actively participate in the racing sport. When shipping birds to a race, often 3500 birds are entered and the watering system (trough) will tend to service 4-500 birds each. Thus, often a recipe for disease.

A few months ago, my race team came down with Circo Virus. Those that are not aware of this disease, it can be very deadly, primarily hitting young birds. It is similar to AIDS in humans, it completely shuts down the immune system, making the birds in danger to any infection that is normally kept in check. The disease being a virus, has no cure yet when the disease runs it's course, the birds are not carriers, unlike salmonella. Those that have problems with Circo, treat for secondary infections, coccidia, typhoid, etc. Of course, the medications place further strains on the birds. Generally, one tries to replace fluids as much as possible and one treatment is give the birds Pedialyte or even Gatorade. Incidentally, all birds are vaccinated for PMV and typhoid at 4 weeks, again at 10 weeks.

I lost about 8 young racing homers, 3 Modenas and nearly 40 Voorburgs. The disease took a toll on the Voorburgs, they apparently were just more susceptible. I lost almost all the young birds, save those that have been recently weaned. 

Treated for the secondary problems, cleaned daily, changed the PH of the water, added vitamins and probiotics regularly. Yet, daily, one or two more birds would come down with the disease (confirmed by the Cal State Lab and Dr. Zollars in Indiana) The samples sent were negative for salmonella, PMV, Adeno, cocci, & e.coli. 

In a conversation with a friend from Norway, he reported that a woman in Sweden has recommended treating bird viruses with carrot juice! She is not a pigeon fancier and I think I was told she may be a gypsy from one of the Eastern Countries. (Hungary?)

Apparently, she raises other types of domestic birds or fowl. Of course my reply was, "Really, you know that doesn't make sense, one can't treat a virus!" His reply was, "Don't kill the messenger, I'm just repeating what some of the Europeans are doing for Circo, PMV and Adeno." OK, but after loosing nearly 50 birds, one often gets desperate and will try something that goes against conventional wisdom. One young bird loft had continual problems, the other lofts had either old birds or much older youngsters and were not infected. The birds that became infected were generally between 8 -12 weeks of age. Additionally, I kept 4 youngsters that normally would be dispatched that were desperately sick. Circo places a huge demand on the kidneys, a great amount of urea is produced and the birds rapidly became dehydrated and emaciated. Within 3-4 days, they are so "down" they are incapable of walking. Within 12 hours they die. 

So, I took the advice, made a 50/50 blend of carrot juice and water. Held the very sick birds to the drinker and gave the same blend to two lofts. This was on a Sunday, in fact July 5. I repeated holding the birds to drink about three or four times that day. The next morning before work I noticed what I thought was a slight improvement but fully expected the birds to be dead upon my return from work. Later, the birds appeared brighter, they no longer closed their eyes and while they could not walk yet, they were definitely improved over the day before. Also, no sick birds in either of the two treated lofts. On Tuesday, I was surprised to see the very sick birds try to eat and definitely the treated lofts showed an improvement. Only held the birds twice to drink since I went to work that day.. Tuesday evening, the sick birds were standing and tried to eat on their own. 

Wednesday morning, were eating and the responded well to offerings of safflower. I continued with the carrot juice until Friday and one week later, a visitor would not be able to tell which birds were sick. Of course, their weight is still down, but all are recovering nicely and next weekend they will be removed from isolation and join the community loft again. They were eager to take a bath last Sunday and fly readily to perches in the isolation cage.

So........A couple of ideas here....The disease actually ran it's course and was in the final stages anyway.......or, my constant good care allowed survival of the fittest. Or?????does the beta carotene that is high in carrots acts as some blocking agent to a virus? Do carrots, high in sugar content and carbohydrates contribute to a recovery process? Is there something else? Ironically, I spoke to a racing homer fancier who's wife is a Chinese physician that specializes in Eastern remedies and life styles. I told him of the above and he rather smiled and said, "Of course, carrots have been used for years for viruses as well as other vegetable products". He indicated that this is a treatment for PMV and Adeno as well and apparently used readily in Europe and the Far East. So, I cannot comment more on the subject, makes little sense to me...but, if the birds even faintly look sick, carrot juice will be in the mix. just sharing some findings, don't kill the messenger.

Posted by Bob Cook, Member of the AZ Pigeon Club in the AZPIGEONCLUB Newsletter-Jan 2010*


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks for the remind Shi..!


I bought a big bunch of fresh Carrots, then could not figure out where I'd put the Juicer.


I will go look some more now that you reminded me...and, if I can find it, I'll make up some and set some lightly diluted Bowls of it for the various convelescents to drink of if they like.


Various of the Residents/Habitues in here used to like it when I would make some up...they'd fly over and sip-and-savor, sip-and-savor...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> Along similar lines, are the research and testimonies however to be regarded, as concern Chlorine Dioxide.
> 
> Sometimes called 'Miracle Mineral Solution'
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, pdbison. Had a quick look at its use in poultry farming, and it seems to fundamentally work as a cell oxidizer too,which kills cancer cells, virus, fungus, and bacteria, just like hydrogen peroxide does. The main difference seems to be that it breaks down into oxygen and chlorine, rather than into hydrogen and oxygen (h2o2)

I think I'll seriously look into this one as well. I really appreciate the info!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bella_F,



Glad you liked it.


It is very interesting...wish I had more time and room in my head for pursueing some of these things.


Please keep us posted?


I have used Turpentine ( some old pre-WWII stuff in a small Bottle I have had forever) for wetting a small folded cloth, for instances of Aspiration Pnuemonia or late upper stage respiratory infection issues in Pigeons, where I was loosing them otherwise...

In already seriously ill, unable to eat, and all round frail Birds, if they aspirate Crop Liquids, it is usually fatal, occasioning Bacterial/Fungal/Microbial pnuemonias all at once, where, about the only hope has been to set them up in a Nebulizer with Gentomycin or Amphoterizine B or other hideous damaging agents.

Anyway, the couple times I tried this, it was last ditch since I did not believe they were going to last the night, and, it worked, and the Bird caughed out all sorts of rubbery crud the next day, and got over it.

I simply set a Turpentine lightly-wetted folded small cloth in one corner of the Cage, and, the Pigeon sought it out on his own, sleeping the night with his Beak and Face right over it...next day, caughed out the crud.

One can get 'USP' Turpentine at Pharmacies/Chemists, which ideally would probably be best for quality and purity.


I have a quart of 'Oxine' and just totally forgot I had it...one does best to transfer it to a Glass Bottle, as the plastic Bottles it comes in, after a year or so, gets brittle and will shatter or crack just sitting there, allowing the contents to leak out.


Anyway...lots of reading needing to be done for me, to get a handle on the Peroxide and Chlorine Dioxide possibilities and applications.


Phil
Lv


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thank Phil,
I didn't know about turpentine fumes for aspiration, thanks a lot for sharing the info. I like how you can just leave the turps-soaked rag near the pigeon and let them go to it themselves. They can be such intuitive little things can't they?

If I find any more info on Oxygen therapies using Oxine or h2o2, I'll post it here. From what I'm reading, I'm getting the sense that the method of administrating these substances is critical, and that inhalation via a mist is probably safest for dying or sick birds. Injection is the most effective for cancers and tumors, and ingestion in water is best for health maintenance./ virus prevention. Of all these treatments, I think I would be most comfortable with learning about how to create a mist with oxine, as it seems the most well documented. 

Thanks a lot again for the info, Phil


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bella_F,



Yes...fine 'misting' ( done in a way where the Patient is obliged to breathe it in, but not so the mist is coarse ) of an appropriately mixed 'Oxine' Solution ( no Ascorbic Acid for one thing, ) can definitely be a good thing for Birds or People or anyone with Sinus or upper Respiratory or Lung infections, which would of course include instances of Aspiration Pnuemonia.

Aspiration mis-haps or mis-adventures, whether the Bird does it by themself, or, by accident in our mis-managing some procedure or examination, readily eventuate with the Bird dieing within seconds, or minutes, or hours, from more or less drowning.


Plain Water of course does not tend to occasion any infection issues, but, anything which may be in a liquid which will support micro-organisms nutritionally, is the worry.

Those who do not perish so soon,( for having got only some little bit of Crop Liquid or Formula into their Breathing ways ) within a day or two, then face possibly terrible infections from whatever micro-organism supporting nutrients, or, Organisms already present in the formula/food/Crop contents, or both, if the latter is the fluid having been aspirated '"Gushers" and so on...

Given this is generally hopeless, and involves differing and simultaneous classes of micro-organisms, and, occurs with Birds who are already either approximately hopeless or who are at least very ill already, though it can occur with erstwhile healthy robust Squeakers if a Lavage or Tube feeding mis-hap, any humane regimen which offers hope, is well worth considering.

I had forgotten, but, with your mention, it got me thinking...I had used a fine 'Oxine' mist for some various Pigeons some years ago, and I did believe it helped save them...these were ones with very raw, dialated Tracheas not contracting between breaths...who had not responded to the Antibiotics I had, and who were getting worse.


I will try this again now that I am reminded.


A good grade of Turpentine, presented as mentioned, so the Bird may seek it out if he or she likes, also can help any sort of upper repiratory or possibly even deeper repiratory infection, whether in Birds or other Animals, and has with me at times, also, when I have had the beginnings of a Bronchitis, being both soothing to the irritations, and seeing the illness end quickly, in a day or two, where, other people around here, when they get a Bronchitis, it lasts for weeks or months for them.

I myself had a really bad Mold related Pnuemonia when I was like 19 years old.

I thought I was going to die so many times going through that...it was absolutely horrid.


I wish I had known about Turpentine and or Chlorine Dioxide.


Rambley...


Phil
Lv


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