# ethics regarding rescued pidgeons?



## SchmerLadything (Sep 5, 2009)

Yesterday I rescued a pigeon who was hit by the car in front on me. It has no external wounds or obvious internal once that might cause it to show pain when touched. I took it home and kept it over night in a cardboard box with paper scrap floor and dish of water. It appeared to lose a lot of fluid and perhaps vomited in there, it wasn't totally pleased with being moved, but i checked its feet and wings to make sure they could hold and open properly.

This morning it was moving around a little so I brought it to out walled-in backyard and set it on the ground. It didn't move more than a step or two for half an hour (most of that time I was inside the house). So I took it back in and now it's in a recycling container with a paper scrap floor, deeper water dish and a plate of assorted raw whole grains, seeds and lentils.

It had some foodstuffs stuck to its beak and (I'll just say he to make it easier) he couldn't seem to get it off. I picked him up (he has nearly no protest to this action) and cleaned his beak off, then continued to pet and and rub the feathers around his neck. Within a few minutes he scrambled up my forearm to my chest, preened my dress and hair, cuddled against me and took a nap.

Is this normal behavior for a bird which isn't banded and has only been in "captivity" for less than a day?

I feel responsible for him now and I'd like to keep him at least until he is moving and flying normally. Is it ethical for me to continue showing him people are safe if I'm going to let him fly off when he is ready? I'm I doing him a disservice?

Currently my plan is to keep him in the spare bathroom in large birdcage I'm picking up for him today. When he appears to be walking and flying right I am going to move it outside and leave it open but keep petting and feeding him while allowing him to leave if and when he wants to.

I realize this is rather long and probably too much information, so thank you for your consideration. I grew up with birds which frankly I hated, but this wild pigeon is one of the sweetest most wonderful creatures I've ever come in contact with. It is so sweet and loving I want to make sure I do what is best for the bird.

Best regards,
Kiva


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi Kiva, welcome to the forum and thank you for helping this bird.
Pigeons has been around humans for more than 5000 years. They are semi-tame birds who do not fear so much been handled.
They are one of most intelligent creatures. Learn easy and can be trained to perform various tasks. No wonder your feathered friend reacted with calm to your presence.
As for ethic in your relationship, let say it is much more ethical to tame and help them than to molest and chase and poison them. Which is by the way mostly what they get from being around people. Do what your heart tells you to do. Pigeon may recover and stay with you. He may be disabled to the rest of his life too. I have many disabled birds living with me quite happily.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well he is acting "tame" because he is young and or sick IMO. he may need to be hand fed. here is a link for some help.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-29604.html


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## mfiggis (Sep 3, 2009)

*Pigeons & Rehab*

I'm new to the forum so apologies if my response isn't appropriate. But I also work at a wildlife rehabilitation hospital, and my strongest suggestion would be to call a wildlife hospital or rehabilitator in your area -- to have them either take the pigeon and treat it, or give you specific advice. There may be internal injuries which you can't see. And our birds with internal and head injuries get very specific care and medications. Where are you located? Perhaps I can help you find help in your area.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Of course your right Mfiggis.
*If one can get professional and qualified help *it is much better for bird and person who cares for bird.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

mfiggis said:


> I'm new to the forum so apologies if my response isn't appropriate. But I also work at a wildlife rehabilitation hospital, and my strongest suggestion would be to call a wildlife hospital or rehabilitator in your area -- to have them either take the pigeon and treat it, or give you specific advice. There may be internal injuries which you can't see. And our birds with internal and head injuries get very specific care and medications. Where are you located? Perhaps I can help you find help in your area.


Would love to know what rehab hospital you work at.
I might add that most rehab hospitals do not accept feral Pigeons.


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## psychopomp (May 5, 2008)

*sorry but*



plamenh said:


> Of course your right Mfiggis.
> *If one can get professional and qualified help *it is much better for bird and person who cares for bird.


"Would love to know what rehab hospital you work at.
I might add that most rehab hospitals do not accect feral Pigeons." 

again disbelief and sarcasm shown to people trying to help the birds, its not about who's the " best rehabber"

again I have avoided this forum because of the judgmental attitudes shown...We cannot all afford "professional Help" ( in my area 100 dollars a pigeon) and the sarcasm "of course you are right" is why I no longer bother posting on this site.

I hope you show new people better welcome. apparently I didnt try hard enough. I wont post any longer.

in most cities there is limited help for ferals. I rely on my own funds, very limited ( and I get judged by my lack of:confused) I try my best and put hours and hours trying to help these birds. which are target practice or pests in this part of the world. No, I didnt rush to phone a vet...I did my best with pet store and first aid...I have spent more than 1000 dollars a year on my feral rehabs.

I just ASK PLEASE ACCEPT NEW PEOPLE TRYING TO HELP AND NOT TELLING THEM WHAT A TERRIBLE JOB THEY HAVE DONE>PLEASE>


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

I agree, he IS hurt, and therefore is allowing you to handle him. There is always the possibillity that he was hand raised or was a member of a flock that got fed by humans.

Getting professional help is highly recommended. If he was hit by a car, the odds of him him being hurt internally are high. Unless you know what to look for, you could miss something very important. He is probably in pain, even if he/she appears not to be.

Animals are very good at hiding injuries and problems. I'd say that if it is an adult pigeon, and it is not flying, then something is for sure up.

Not all rehibillitation places take in pigeons.....please be sure to inquire on what will be done with the bird. Most often they are put down.

If you are able to get it to an avain vet, please do so say it a "pet" pigeon. Not all avain vets will look at them if they are not pets.

A photo of the bird would be most helpful. A members maybe able to point something out.

-Hilly


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*sorry but . . .*




psychopomp said:


> *again disbelief and sarcasm shown to people trying to help the birds, its not about who's the " best rehabber"*
> 
> again I have avoided this forum because of the judgmental attitudes shown...*We cannot all afford "professional Help" *( in my area 100 dollars a pigeon) and the sarcasm "of course you are right" is why I no longer bother posting on this site.
> 
> ...


 
I have no idea _what_ you are referring to. 
There was absolutely no sarcasm, disrespect, etc., in any of the posts prior to yours. 

Cindy


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2009)

AZWhitefeather said:


> *sorry but . . .*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think she /he means posts in general ,people here do tend to pounce on anyone not willing to take a bird to a vet and its very unhelpful to the birds in general since people here tend to scare off a ton of people with their sarcazem ... its kinda sad really cuz if you think about the state of the world today most should be just glad when one just takes in a bird in need of a good feeding and feeds it and gives it shelter  not everyone can aford to go for a vet but at least they are trying by coming here and its just sad when they get scared off in the process ... just my 2 cents from the loft of the lokotas ... hokahey


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

psychopomp said:


> "Would love to know what rehab hospital you work at.
> I might add that most rehab hospitals do not accect feral Pigeons."
> 
> again disbelief and sarcasm shown to people trying to help the birds, its not about who's the " best rehabber"
> ...




I don't believe either of the following members meant to upset anyone.

Not all people know that there ARE vets and other help possible for pigeons. Before getting on this site, I would have never thought about taking one to the vet.

They are also right by stating the MOST vets don't see feral pigeons. I'm Pre-Vet and I have already asked in class and got a ton of weird looks by my proffessors who are vets. 

I also think Charis was wanting to know, that way we could refer people/members to them and the center.

As always if there is a problem with what a member said, PLEASE e-mail or pm them directly to handle the matter. I always try to give information with posts, and always to be polite. There are a variety of people and ages on this forum.


Sorry, I also don't mean to hijack the thread.
-Hilly


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kiva and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. Thank you very much for assisting this pigeon. From your post, it sounds like it may be a very young pigeon and/or one that was raised by humans. Could you post a picture or two of the bird for us as well as let us know your general location? We'll do our best to help you here or help you find some local resources to assist you with the bird.

Terry


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## mfiggis (Sep 3, 2009)

*Very Sorry*

I'm very sorry. I'm brand new and I had no idea I was causing an issue by bringing up a wildlife hospital. That would be my last intent, considering how kind you were in response to my inquiry about the homing pigeon my wife and I may take in.

Please accept my apologies. I meant well for the pigeon and also for the person posting. I deal with people all of the time in rescue situations and would never pass judgment! I'm always just grateful when people try to help an animal on the street. It's a rarity and I treasure it.

I posted my initial comment because I remember how helpless I used to feel when I found an injured animal -- before I got involved with wildlife rehab. I meant no judgment, no sarcasm and no disrespect. Only help.

When a wildlife hospital does take feral pigeons, they do not charge. So I wasn't making any insinuations whatsoever about paying or taking to a vet. I'm not a wealthy person myself (by any stretch) and understand intimately the costs of veterinary care. I only meant to suggest that if there is a local wildlife facility or rehabber that DOES take ferals, it would be a great resource for this person who is struggling over what to do on their own. 

In my area we have at least two wildlife facilities that take feral pigeons. I deal with them regularly. They treat and rehabilitate and do not euthanize unless the injury is beyond amelioration. 

The hospital where I volunteer does not take non-native species, but I transport non-natives like pigeons on my own, to a nearby rehabilitator who does take them. I asked where the person was located because I thought I could see if there was such a place or person in his or her area. I do this regularly for my friends who find injured wild animals.

I will not post again on this topic. I really, genuinely thought I was helping not hurting. I had no idea there would be an implied message in recommending wildlife care. I'm chagrined.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

mfiggis said:


> I will not post again on this topic. I really, genuinely thought I was helping. I had no idea there had been previous implications when posting about wildlife hospitals.


There was nothing wrong with your post, so please don't feel you to have to drop out of this thread. I know your post was intended to be helpful and in the best interests of the bird and the finder.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

mfiggis said:


> I'm very sorry. I'm brand new and I had no idea I was causing an issue by bringing up a wildlife hospital. That would be my last intent, considering how kind you all were in response to my inquiry about the homing pigeon.
> 
> Please accept my apologies. I meant well for the pigeon and also for the person posting. When a wildlife hospital does take feral pigeons, they do not charge. So I wasn't making any insinuations about paying or taking to a vet. I'm not a wealthy person myself and understand intimately the costs of vets.
> 
> ...


No...you haven't done anything wrong. I wanted to know so I could add you to my resource list because Pigeon resources are so hard to find. I know ...I spend hours each week searching for them.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi Mfiggis,
No reason for apologies. You were absolutely right to suggest Vet and Wildlife hospital as solution. Please do not stop or restrict your posts as anyone knowledge is valuable.
I meant no disrespect or sarcasm by answering your post at all.
My experience with Vets and Wildlife centers here in SA regarding feral pigeons and doves is catastrophic. I spend hours driving around from one place to another. Ended up lying to people that these are my pet birds and begging for help. Paying enormous bills to the Vets whose only solution were cortisone injections or statement that canker is not curable. This is the only reason I highlighted statement if one can get professional help. I believe that somewhere there is good avian Vet with knowledge and willingness to help. I believe that there is professional institutions who take pigeons and doves and whoever knows them please let other people know about them.
Regards Plamenh


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## mfiggis (Sep 3, 2009)

Plamenh, no disrespect was taken by your post or any of the posts. It's just that the thread took a contentious turn that I never anticipated and I felt utterly responsible. I realize I am lucky living where I do in California, where some places and individual rehabbers DO take and treat feral pigeons -- and do not charge the person who brings the bird in. We have a compassionate humane society that also takes domestic pigeons like King Pigeons and exotic birds. I am aware this is not the reality everywhere but I thought I might be able to find a resource and some help for the person posting.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

> It's just that the thread took a contentious turn that I never anticipated …


I noticed that too!  (not your fault though)

Well, back to pigeon…
Kiva, 
Unless someone comes with information about Vet, rehabber or society in your area, you have only one option. Keep pigeon warm, let him rest in a quiet place and monitor his water and food intake. As the bird was hit by car, most probably has some bruises and injuries, hopefully nothing serious. I would use Arnica Montana 30c pills – two pills two or three times a day. It will help recovery and reduce stress.
Please keep us posted about pigeon’s condition and accept my apologies for off topic distraction.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

psychopomp said:


> "Would love to know what rehab hospital you work at.
> I might add that most rehab hospitals do not accect feral Pigeons."
> 
> again disbelief and sarcasm shown to people trying to help the birds, its not about who's the " best rehabber"
> ...


 sorry have to comment,... who said anything about a vet??? and money. you are the type of person we on this forum may send a found bird to, if someone who is close to you, that can not take care of a bird and needs help, you are a "rehabber", maybe not licensed(not sure) but experienced now. so really you did this post a diservice by taking your anger about something else and putting it in here. I think you miss read all the helpful post and not sure why, finding someone to help is a wonderful thing and if they can not we talk them through it. If you do not want to help here or learn it is your loss. IMO


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

shcmerlady... hope all is well with the pigeon, please let us know if there is any help or info you may need, including finding experienced folks that you can learn from in your area.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

maybe you can take a picture of him so we can see if he is young one or an adult


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