# Can you help sick pigeon found?



## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

I brought home a pigeon that could not fly was getting around by hopping on one leg. I fed the pigeon wild food seeds that I had at home and he ate. He had been eating and had stopped about three days ago. I brought him to the vet yesterday and he said that he is a young pigeon very underweight and very weak. He fed him a pill to de-worm him. He provided me with a syringe and told me that I should hand feed him baby bird food. I picked some up yesterday and fed him. The doctor instructed me to insert the attachment to the syringe completely down the bird's throat and I did. I fed him yesterday and twice today. The pigeon does not look any better. He looks as if he has gotten worse. He is not walking at all and he was yesterday before the visit to the vet and he is laying towards his side and his head is twinching. Could I have fed him wrong??? What could be causing the head jerking, the loss of appetite and no longer standing or walking??? 

[This message has been edited by joan (edited August 05, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by joan (edited August 05, 2003).]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Joan & Welcome to Pigeons.com
Thank you so very much for helping this sweet pij. I'm sorry to hear he isn't doing so well.

Syringe or tube feeding can be a challenge. I don't have much experience in that area, however I did want to at least acknowledge your post and assure you, other members with more experience in syringe feeding will be along to assist you.
Please keep us posted on how your little patient is doing.
Cindy 

[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited August 05, 2003).]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Joan and welcome! 

So sorry the pigeon is doing poorly. What vet did you take the bird to, if I might ask. There is a vet in the NYC area that does and will treat pigeons for free and am just curious if that is where you went.

The symptoms you describe are not encouraging, but neither is/was the stoppage of eating three days ago. 

Please gently open the birds mouth and look inside .. you are looking for stringy mucous, yellowish/whitish cottage cheesy looking growths, and or a very pale mouth/throat color. The inside of the mouth and throat should be clear and healthy pink in color.

What do the droppings of the bird look like?

Did the vet give you any medications for the bird?

Please post back.

Terry Whatley


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Joan,

I don't think that your pigeon's desperate state was anything to do with the way you fed it. It was very ill already and the vet probably couldn't identify the underlying cause. There is still a lot that is not known about pigeon illnesses. We can't save them all, but it is wonderful when people care enough to try! 

Cynthia


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Hello and thank you for replying!!!
I brought the pigeon to an Avia veternary locally. It was difficult to find one...
The throat looks pink and clean. The droppings are yellow and green watery like. The vet did not perform any test nor prescribed any medication. He gave the pigeon a pill for worms and told me to hand feed is all. I would like to mention that the pigeon one day last week was lying hardly moving and able to lift his head (but still pecked at the pigeon seeds placed in front of him). The next day he started walking again and eating surprisingly as he did not look like he was going to make it all... There is no change today. He is still lying not moving much. He is not sleeping with his head tucked in front of him like he usually does. The head is held up turned towards his right and jerking. Any ideas or info would be greatly appreciated!!! 



> Originally posted by TAWhatley:
> *Hi Joan and welcome!
> 
> So sorry the pigeon is doing poorly. What vet did you take the bird to, if I might ask. There is a vet in the NYC area that does and will treat pigeons for free and am just curious if that is where you went.
> ...


[This message has been edited by joan (edited August 06, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by joan (edited August 06, 2003).]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Joan,
Doesn't sound like the vet did much of an exam. So... We will all put our heads together & see what we can do to help you & that sweet little pij.

Two things are a given: The droppings & the 'jerking' of the head are abnormal.

Other, more experienced, members will be along to give their advice.
If any changes occur, please post them immediately. 
Cindy


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2003)

The jerking of the head sounds like PMV. There is no specific treatment, but because of the head jerking and laying down, you will have to hand feed him a lot. They usually recover after 4-5 weeks, sometimes longer. Keep us posted!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Please try Dr.Schaubhut from The East Village Veterinary, 241 Eldridge Street, 212-674-8640

I have consulted Helen and she says "I suspect coccidia and extreme emaciation. Co-trimoxazole is the drug to fight this. A heat lamp would help."

Cynthia


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Thank you all for your replies and for all of the help!!! It's really great to see that there are people that care enough to create such a website and to see that there are people that care for animals and want to help. 
I will continue the hand feeding and will try to reach the doctor tomorrow morning. By the way, any idea how often should I feed the pigeon? 

Again, thank you for the replies and help. You're all great!



> Originally posted by cyro51:
> *Please try Dr.Schaubhut from The East Village Veterinary, 241 Eldridge Street, 212-674-8640
> 
> I have consulted Helen and she says "I suspect coccidia and extreme emaciation. Co-trimoxazole is the drug to fight this. A heat lamp would help."
> ...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am feeding a 35 day old pigeon 40ml three times a day. I think as your pigeon is emaciated he should have the same.

But I am really not the expert on this, so I am open to correction!









Cynthia


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Thanks again for the responses. Just wanted to let you know that I brought the pigeon to the East Village Veternary clinic you provided and the doctor that saw the pigeon just looked at the pij and said that the he had an incurable disease and should be euthanized...



> Originally posted by cyro51:
> *I am feeding a 35 day old pigeon 40ml three times a day. I think as your pigeon is emaciated he should have the same.
> 
> But I am really not the expert on this, so I am open to correction!
> ...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am terribly sorry about that! Did he say what the disease was?

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I am so sorry Joan.
Many thanks for taking the time to care for & give this little pij a bit of love. 
All too often they are ignored, left in the streets when a helping hand is all it takes to make a difference. 

YOU made a difference. You showed him someone out there really cared enough to try.

That is all they ask of us.

"When you least expect it, you will be rewarded for you good deed."
Cindy


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Thank you. He didn't say what he had... He just picked him out of the box, looked at him and said that he had an incurable disease and as he said that he picked up a syringe and said that the pigeon should be euthanized. I didn't have a chance to ask before he began to euthanize the pigeon. It was pretty sad to hear that and to see what he had done. I had to walk away. I had a knot on my throat at that point to be honest. I was hoping that I would have receive some medication or something to try to give the pigeon a chance. It was quiet difficult to find a vet that would actually look at a pigeon. I had to call many places and after going through so many numbers off the yellow pages. I decided to search online for websites when I found this one. I guess vets just see them as inexpensive birds or something... I don't know why but I think its really sad. Pigeons are animals and I think they deserve a chance to live as much as an exotic expensive bird...I think what you are all doing in this website is really wonderful. Keep up with all the help!


> Originally posted by cyro51:
> *I am terribly sorry about that! Did he say what the disease was?
> 
> Cynthia*


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2003)

I have to say, this vet just didn't want to deal with him. He should have asked you if that is what you wanted. I don't know of any "incurable" diseases...some take time to recover from, but a lot of vets are like this with pigeons.

And there's no way he could tell just by looking at him. It's too late now, but I can't emphasize enough...don't let a vet talk you into this unless they are injured beyond repair and that is seldom the case. You have to option to say no. But you have to go in letting them know he's your pet. Otherwise they think they have the right to euthanise. Really TICKS me off. 

I'm sorry for both the pigeon and you for having to go through this. But don't blame yourself, you didn't know.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about the little pijj, You spent an incredible amount of time and energy on this baby and did everything you could. As a pigeon person, I just want to thankyou, thankyou, thankyou..., for what you did for this little one, it didn't go un noticed by me or that little bird who is now at total peace. I am happy to know you.

Treesa


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Tears of sadness & anger fill my eyes, thinking that, "The vet didn't even try" 
Cindy


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

That is what vets do.. The wildlife centre I visit do the same thing, they won't let you have the bird back and since this disease doesn't have a medication they think that putting it to sleep is the only choice.. I know that the birds can recover sometimes but sometimes birds with PMV will still have nerve damage and might not be fully releasable that is why I would consider keeping him or finding him a home... I'm sorry about what happened









This happened to me so many times and I know how you feel









Mary


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am in the UK but had it on good authority that this particular vet is one who is supposed to care about pigeons and will treat feral pigeons for free. I don't want to recommend him again if this is going to be the inevitable outcome.

Joan, would it be possible for you to telephone and ask what this incurable diease was? Then at least we can know whether he was speaking from conviction or convenience.

Cynthia

------------------
_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2003)

Joan,

I'm sorry for having recommended Schaubhut. Birdy should be alive now, especially since you have so much love and did a lot.

I'll stop recommending the guy without lots of cautions.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

The problem I'm having with this incident is the fact the vet didn't even check the pij. How can he factually say it had an incurable disease? Then to euthanize him right in front of Joan, before she could mutter a word. This is wrong, totally wrong!!

Members ask for our suggestion on who we would recommend they take their pij to for proper care. Who CAN we recommend anymore??
Cindy


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2003)

Joan,

I'm about to call that doctor and complain. I'll be as polite as i can (not easy).

I'm going to try talk in a way that will get him to relate the story. That will give us some information to figure out if he can be of any use to us in the future.

Professional are rarely as reliable as we think they should be, but this is horrendous. 

He should definitely have asked you - not told you - and then made sure you were all right with his decision.

By rushing into his act, he didn't give you much chance, did he? I'm incensed and sorry.

I'll report back in a short time.


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Thank you all for your replies! What I went through with the pigeon was a real eye opener. I thought those who decided to go into the veterinary field was because they love ALL ANIMALS, but from my experience this opinion has changed. I brought the pigeon to three vets, the last who euthanized the pigeon. The other two vets although they did not euthanize they didn't perform any tests. The second vet I asked if he could test the birds dropping because the dropping was mostly green and I didn't think it was normal. He said that I should focus on the birds eating and weight first and left the room...

Mary, thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds like you have an idea of what I was experiencing. On Sunday, the first day the pigeon stopped eating, I called up the many animal clinics and even the ASPCA to find out of a clinic or centre where wildlife are treated. One clinic informed me of a wildlife centre. I drove to the centre and asked if they provided vet services for wildlife. The receptionist told me that they accepted wildlife to be dropped off and if I dropped the pigeon off it would not be returned, so I left... I my mind made of keeping the pigeon if he/she wasn't releasable, I just needed to find a place to have the pigeon treated...This turned out to be the very difficult part.



> Originally postedby maryco:
> *That is what vets do.. The wildlife centre I visit do the same thing, they won't let you have the bird back and since this disease doesn't have a medication they think that putting it to sleep is the only choice.. I know that the birds can recover sometimes but sometimes birds with PMV will still have nerve damage and might not be fully releasable that is why I would consider keeping him or finding him a home... I'm sorry about what happened
> 
> 
> ...


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

I will call him on Monday to inquire what the incurable disease he was referring to and will post back the response.


> Originally posted by cyro51:
> *I am in the UK but had it on good authority that this particular vet is one who is supposed to care about pigeons and will treat feral pigeons for free. I don't want to recommend him again if this is going to be the inevitable outcome.
> 
> Joan, would it be possible for you to telephone and ask what this incurable diease was? Then at least we can know whether he was speaking from conviction or convenience.
> ...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you Joan, I appreciate that.

Cynthia


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2003)

Hi, Joan and all

The doctor wasn't answering when i tried on Saturday, and i'm going to change my plan and write. And i'll wait til you get an answer tomorrow, Joan.


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## joan (Aug 5, 2003)

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to touch base to let you know that I tried calling the office a few times but I got an answering machine. I left a message but haven't heard from anyone.

I'll inform you as soon as I get a response.



> Originally posted by AlStreit:
> *Hi, Joan and all
> 
> The doctor wasn't answering when i tried on Saturday, and i'm going to change my plan and write. And i'll wait til you get an answer tomorrow, Joan.*


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## LadyandPheniox (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by joan:
> *Hi everyone,
> Just wanted to touch base to let you know that I tried calling the office a few times but I got an answering machine. I left a message but haven't heard from anyone.
> 
> ...


Sally Haddock, DVM
Internist
St. Marks Veterinary Hospital
348 East 9th Street
212-477-2688

She came recomened by a Dr. I used to work with in NYC who's mom Had all sorts of birds. http://www.stmarksvet.com/ 

I hope this helps!

Brightest Blessings!
Sandra


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