# Ascapilla ( fenbendazole ) as a dewormer.



## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi 
I've been using Ascapilla ( fenbendazole) for deworming my pigeons for a long time .It has been over a year since I've started dosing my pigeons with Ascapilla but they are all doing great..They are in good health and producing chicks pretty well..If fenbendazole is toxic to pigeons then how are my birds still in good health and side effect free ?????


Thank You


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It's a case of people misreading things. Fenbendazole has a very narrow safety margin, so one needs to calculate the dose very carefully. An overdose is toxic. Avian vet I go to uses it and said that my preference, Moxidectin, equally can be toxic if not given appropriately. Most people, I would think, prefer to use something that has a greater safety margin.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Could you please tell me what other dewormers have a greater safety margin ???


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Just wondering, how many times did you worm them this past year, and do you flock treat in water or treat individually? Most people worm 2-3 times per year and I think only 2 or 3 doses is not enough to say that the wormer is safe for your birds in the long run, but I'm glad your birds survived.

We've seen deaths due to fenbendazole on this forum (I lost one persoanlly), but in the cases I followed the pigeons were unwell due to the worms. Healthy pigeons may do better. 

I have a hunch that part of the problem with fenbendazole is its effectiveness, which leads to a rate of worm die-off that some pigeons can't cope with, especially ones who have so many worms they've become ill from them. Worm die-off causes internal blockages, bleeding from the digestive tract, and release of toxins (eg when the worms are in the lungs). I have no idea if this hunch is right, but my Avian vet did say fenbendazole is the most effective wormer available (right before he wormed and killed my sick hen who was infested with worms She died over two days and couldn't poop anything but blood & urine...it was awful and I hurt a lot seeing her suffer like that.

I now use moxidectin personally for regular worming...its great, it does external parasites too and doesn't make them feel nauseas. I also use a tablet that is levamisole combined with praziquantel, which has been very effective for tape worms and more serious cases of round worms.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

It has been around 14 months since I've started using fenbendazole and over this period I've dewormed my pigeons around 4 times.I usually treat them individually...


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Nazmul said:


> Could you please tell me what other dewormers have a greater safety margin ???


I use Pyrantel Pamoate (liquid) regularly. Very safe, can be used individually or in the drinking water and is excellent for roundworms. It's even gentle enough to use on a sick bird.
I use Ivermectin Sheep Drench twice a year in their bath water for external parasites.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

I also use pyrantel pamoate and apparently I think its too gentle because it doesnt work on my pigeons  How effective is Ivermectin( for internal parasites ) ? I've heard its not that safe .


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Moxidectin is said to be more effective than ivermectin; its a more modern version of ivermectin. People use Ivermectin because its cheap for doing flocks, as so little is required.

Tape worms are not killed by any of these wormers that we've mentioned so far (including fenbendazole). You need a combination wormer that includes praziquantel, for example `moxidectin plus'.(The `plus' refers to the addition of praziquantel). I do think its worth treating for tape worms, as they get so huge and birds I've seen with tape worms get very sick.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Ascapilla ( fenbendazole ) works good in my birds.Can I conclude that the bendazoles ( fenbendazole , albendazole ) are safe for my pigeons ??


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't understand why you would take the risk when there are many safer and better alternatives.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Most fancier here in my country suggest Ascapilla ,Panacur and wormazole which contains fenbendazole.I am highly confused what to use because studies have shown that fenbendazole is not safe but the fanciers in my country says that it is free of side effect and they use it regularly ...:s


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Nazmul said:


> *I also use pyrantel pamoate and apparently I think its too gentle because it doesnt work on my pigeons*  How effective is Ivermectin( for internal parasites ) ? I've heard its not that safe .


Why do you think it's not working? But it doesn't kill ALL types of worms. I use it because my main concern here is roundworms, and its excellent for cleaning them out, but you have to repeat the treatment 2 weeks later.
In the past, I've lost birds using Ivermectin. One of the side effects of ivermectin is temporary paralysis, and I lost a couple birds due to that.
Ivermectin comes in way too many different strengths, so you have to be careful about dosing depending on which composition you have. I've also read different articles that roundworms are becoming immune to it.
Since I switched to pyrantel, my birds seem much healthier.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Nazmul said:


> Most fancier here in my country suggest Ascapilla ,Panacur and wormazole which contains fenbendazole.I am highly confused what to use because studies have shown that fenbendazole is not safe but the fanciers in my country says that it is free of side effect and they use it regularly ...:s


I think, as I mentioned before, that it is not safe if one does not take care to give the correct dose (i.e., not overdose). I don't use it, so I don't know the dosage, but I'm sure it will depend on factors like the general health of the bird, age, and weight. If wormers are just dished out indiscriminately (one dose for all), in water or otherwise, obviously none of those factors are being considered, and a particular wormer could cause serious problems for some birds.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> Why do you think it's not working? But it doesn't kill ALL types of worms. I use it because my main concern here is roundworms, and its excellent for cleaning them out, but you have to repeat the treatment 2 weeks later.
> In the past, I've lost birds using Ivermectin. One of the side effects of ivermectin is temporary paralysis, and I lost a couple birds due to that.
> Ivermectin comes in way too many different strengths, so you have to be careful about dosing depending on which composition you have. I've also read different articles that roundworms are becoming immune to it.
> Since I switched to pyrantel, my birds seem much healthier.


I think its not working because the poops remain the same (runny ) and the birds health does not improve but when I use Ascapilla ( fenbendazole ) the poops become normal and the health of the birds improve to a great extent.

The only dewormers available in my country are Ascapilla(fenbendazole) , Panacur(fenbendazole) ,wormazole(albendazole) and Melphin(pyrantel)...Moxidectin is not available here


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

It's time for me to deworm my pigeons again .I had Ascapilla capsules ( each capsule contained 8 mg fenbendazole ) but I ran out of it.I now have panacur pills ( each pill contains 150 mg fenbendazole ) .How should I prepare a safe dose ? Do I have to dose 1/18th of 150mg and make a solution of around 8mg ???


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How do you know your birds have worms?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

You could buy `Moxidectin plus ' from the Siegalpigeons store online, I noticed this store sends to Bangladesh too. This store is reputable as far as I know, though I buy from `Jedd's' personally. Here is the link:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/cgi-bin/pigeonup.exe?preadd=action&key=C3026
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-Australian.html

I wouldn't want to help you mix up a fenbenadazole suspension because to me its like helping you to poison your birds. I'd rather see you use something safe for your lovely birds; they depend on you and need you to have good judgement. They have noone else but you.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Charis said:


> How do you know your birds have worms?


It appears in poops that are left in the poop tray.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Bella_F said:


> You could buy `Moxidectin plus ' from the Siegalpigeons store online, I noticed this store sends to Bangladesh too. This store is reputable as far as I know, though I buy from `Jedd's' personally. Here is the link:
> 
> http://www.siegelpigeons.com/cgi-bin/pigeonup.exe?preadd=action&key=C3026
> http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-Australian.html
> ...


Its not possible for me to buy from that online store.I dont use a credit card


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I see, thats difficult for you, I understand.

I have another idea that might help. I have used the folowing Pigeon suppliers before on ebay. They supply all kind of pigeon medicine, from Spain and the UK. You can use paypal to pay, so only need a bank account.

The first wormer is Pyrantel Pamoate
with Praziquantel . It will be very effective and safe, and additionally will do tape worms which fenbendazole doesn't.. 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/MedPet-Medi...les_AnimalCollectables_SM&hash=item3a7940d716

The second one is levimisole. I use it a lot, though its said to cause nausea. But is very effective, more effective than moxidectin even. 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Giantel-Wor...les_AnimalCollectables_SM&hash=item3cca7d8665


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

I dont have a bank account either.I am a student and I dont earn  John D mentioned that only an overdose is toxic .If the dosage is appropriate ,within the safety margin then its not harmful for the birds.


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