# Racing Pigeon Size



## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

There is another thread whereupon someone was asking about a flyer named Dr. John Lamberton. I had heard of him and did a google search and came up with his web site.

Here is a link to his site. But what I wanted to actually discuss is about halfway down on Lambertons web page, there is a pic of Louis janssen holding the famous pigeon "019".

http://drjohnlamberton.com/

Now I know that Louis Janssen is a small guy in stature, but look at the size of "019" he is holding in his hands. WOW. Am I wrong or is that one big racing pigeon? Even in the hands of a smaller man.

Which brings to mind the question about sizes of racing pigeons. There are some for sale or auction that discuss "apple shaped" or small to medium, or small but well put together, etc. Does apple shaped really matter?

I have always like my cock birds on the larger size and the hens on the medium size. I have never liked the small racers.

Does anyone like the smaller hens over medium hens? Does anyone prefer a size for racers? Of course the simple answer is, it is all about performance, no matter what size they are. But sometimes you bid on auctions or whatever, and appearance is taken into consideration. Is size taken into consideration with racing pigeons in your personal selections in another persons loft? One way or another?


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

This is another one of those questions that you will probably get as many different answers as you have responses. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally do not like a big cock bird and prefer the hens to be smaller to medium. On the other hand I dont like a small cock bird but prefer they are "medium" in size. Most of the birds in my loft have the "apple body" vs. the longer cast body. The wing and back muscles is probably the most important thing, for us, in selecting YB's for the important races. Our best racers in the last couple of years have been the smallest hens in the flock. However, we do not go for the sprint races either and they dont perform well in those.
Ken


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Hey Conditionfreak !

They say a picture is worth a thousand words !! I had seen the picture a long time ago, and my thinking was....boy he was a very small man....but, like you said, it could very well be a very large bird !! 

I personally, make an attempt, not to allow my biases for things to influence me to much. Perhaps the birds should be larger or smaller. My thinking is that over time, the performance over the series of races in the One Loft events we do, will at some point, create the idea size, and at this point, I don't know exactly where they will end up. Some of the lines in the Ludo family, have produced some giants. I'm thinking some of the inbreeding has brought that out. I'm talking so big, bands had to be cut off. At some point, you have to draw the line, and at that size, I attempt to breed to the smaller hens. My 1st Place winner in the Flamingo in 2006, and the most consistant bird in the Flamingo that year, was a hen we called "BIG Deal", she was larger then your typical cock bird. Don't know where her size came from exactly. Way back in her pedigree, there were some birds owned by the Janssen brothers. Had we been to biased towards size, maybe she never would have gone to the Flamingo....which is what I mean when I say, I try not to let my personal preferences get in the way too much.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Yea. There is a pic of Louis Janssen with a couple of other flyers and he looks small, but not THAT small.

I have to conclude that "019" was a very big pigeon. Even a twelve year old holding a pigeon, shouldn't have that big a size look.

Plus, your references to Janssens that you had, apparently carried genes for a larger size pigeon. I just have to assume they maybe came down through "019" or at the very least through Janssen lines. Maybe being small men in stature, the Janssens just liked larger pigeons.

I do know that it is common knowledge that smaller men tend to drive bigger cars and like bigger guns, than the general population. Of course, there are always exceptions. But I bet (with the little bit of anecdotal evidence we have here), that the Janssens tended towards preferring a larger pigeon.

Nothing wrong with that, if it works.

But that is just one huge pigeon. Common sense tells me that a racing pigeon that large, wouldn't be as fast as a medium or smaller pigeon. Could a crow fly faster than a feral pigeon? Probably not. I know from observation that mourning doves "look" like they fly a lot faster than racing pigeons. But then you have to factor in endurance.

In human racing, the longer the legs, usually the better. For long distance and middle distance. Probably also in short sprints. I am not sure though. I have not seen many runners who win races, that are small in stature.

"019"'s wings sure would propel him forward powerfully, but they would make him tired quicker I would assume.

I do like a larger cock bird though. But not that large. I wonder if there are any studies available as to the the size differences of winning racing pigeons.

Off topic slightly. I was just reading up on Ludo's beginnings and one of the stories is that he took a friend to a homing pigeon market place "over there", and picked out five pigeons for his friend, but told the friend that one of the five in particular, would be the best.

The friend asked Ludo to race the bird and see if it really was a good one as he knew that Ludo was a better trainer and flyer than he. So, as the story goes. Ludo took the bird and won big time, and bred winners with the market bird also.

The point of the story was that Ludo knew how to pick pigeons, without looking at pedigrees and past performance. He just had the knack or knowledge (whichever you want to call it) for picking good ones.

We all like to think that we have this knack. But few actually do. One of the things I like to do is look at pics of big time winning pigeons, and compare their looks to your average racing pigeon. Winners seem to come in a basic look. But not always. It doesn't really work well though, because many of the pics are after the big time winner has been put in the stock loft and puts on a few extra ounces. Like me


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

thats one whopper of a bird hes holding
makes him look like papa smurf holding that huge bird LOL


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I like a lot of different shapes and sizes of birds. As long as it's proportional and flies good, I don't care 
But personally, I love big strong feeling birds. The long, slender birds are nice as well, and even the smaller birds. But one kind I'm not too fond of are the short squatty looking things. The ones who's tail sticks straight out and appears to be more of a modena or hollie cropper than homer  

But whether its a tractor bird or a crane, a sparrow or a sailboat, if it wins, I like it  After all, pretty doesn't win, good birds do.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

This is another picture of 019 taken in 1989 complements of Jesse wu's websites, totally different in size. Check it oUT! http://wangandwu.com/Janssen019.aspx

Size doesnt Matter, just like how color doesnt matter. Notice the Eye VeryNice! 

BELG 73-6736"019"


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have never seen an eye like that.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> This is another picture of 019 taken in 1989 complements of Jesse wu's websites, totally different in size. Check it oUT! http://wangandwu.com/Janssen019.aspx
> 
> Size doesnt Matter, just like how color doesnt matter. Notice the Eye VeryNice!
> 
> BELG 73-6736"019"


Well...so much for pictures, in this picture, to me at least, he looks like a pretty typical size.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Mattens has an eye like that one. He looks the larger size of medium to me. I always thought my birds were pretty good size until I had one entered in a bird show. They are on the smaller side of medium compared to others. I think size is relevant to what you are comparing it to. At the time his size was just right 20 times. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

If I were to judge the size of the Janssen birds compared to my full blooded Janssen bird whos grandparents were out of the loft, I would say she is medium small. This could be because the line and inbreeding. we are talking four or five generations from 019 and blood from many other birds. 

Randy


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I think you guys underestimated the small size of the man. In most pics I have seen of him he seems really small to me. Anouther thing is perspective, I learned long ago when taking pics of the large fish I catch you hold the fish out in front of you sideways just like he has that pigeon. They always look bigger that they really are.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

So that's how those fish look so darn big! Hmm


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

My only full Janssen is bigger and tamer than the other birds. Here is Fat Janssen at 2-3 months old. He is going to be big when he grows up!!


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Well, I can't remember who it was, I'm thinking it was a video interview with Rick Mardis that I was watching, where Mardis was actually allowed to handle "019" and he called him a 2 hander, and remarked at how large of a bird he was, so certainly was a very big pigeon.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

One has to remember That the birds will get larger in size as they age. Now the picture does not give a date So 019 Im sure is getting older in the Picture. And the picture may have been done with the focus for 019 to stand out more zoomed in to him not janssenas much


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