# The joke's on me--live & learn



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I have a mixed breed loft, not a lot of space and raise just a few youngsters each year to show. I keep lots of rollers, but this year I'm focusing on Taganrog Tumblers and Nuns. I finally got around to acquiring a proper mate for my 2007 champion Taganrog, Sasha (that's her picture on my avatar). He's a very good quality cock I got from the same breeder I bought her parents from, but from a different bloodline. I got him the first week of March and placed them alone together in an individual breeding pen. Prior to obtaining the new cock, Sasha had paired off with one of her brothers. In fact she was still sitting on dummy eggs when I got her new mate and moved her to the breeding pen. She took to the new guy immediately though and started a new nest.

I was surprised when Sasha laid eggs right away--five and seven days after pairing. Now it did cross my mind that her chicks _might_ not have been fathered by her new mate since she laid so quickly. But I dismissed the thought. After all, she was still sitting on her previous nest. And if anything, I thought they would have her brother as their daddy so at least they would be Taganrogs.

At the same time my original pair (Boris & Natasha, Sasha's parents) started a nest. All four chicks hatched on the same day, April 4th. I was delighted. When they were a few days old I noticed that Sasha's babies were quite a bit larger than her mom's chicks. That's strange, I thought, since they're the same age and breed. But I didn't think too much of it until they were five days old. I got a good look at Sasha's chicks and much to my surprise, one of them had a dark beak! I examined them closely then and discovered that they were definitely not purebred Taganrog Tumblers.  One has a dark beak, head and chest. The other has a light head, as a Taganrog should, but what looks suspiciously like a bib on its chest. So...I'm pretty sure the daddy was one of my ever-flirtatious Nun cocks.  Those playboys really get around. 

Here are pictures showing a purebred Taganrog Tumbler chick next to a crossbreed hatched the same day. See the size and color difference? I find it quite ironic that the older pair, who are living in the open loft, produced purebreds while the young pair, in an individual breeding pen, produced crossbreeds. Oh well. Now I know the time period between mating and egg laying is longer than I thought it was. Live and learn.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Congratulations, grandma! So much for your match making.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I have to admit I'm curious to see what they will turn out like.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Birdmom4ever said:


> I have to admit I'm curious to see what they will turn out like.


Me too!!!!


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Wow. I really think sometimes that we don't know as much as we think we do.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Cuties! Their beaks are totally different sizes even. Can't wait to see what they look like grown up.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Awfully pretty and cute babies, Cathy, even if they aren't quite what you expected!  I'm sure you'll have another champion or two in waiting before long!

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cathy,

Ah, but they are just as cute aren't they?

Sounds like Sasha did some flirting around herself. LOL  

...and they just missed hatching on April fools day...that would really have been reallly clever.

I enjoyed the story and appreciate you sharing it and the pictures and the information-good to know that eggs laid 5 to 7 days after coupling aren't necessarily going to be from the current mate-if prior mating occured with flirtatious birds around. 

Thank you.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Your babies are too adorable, Cathy.  
Thanks for sharing them with us.



Birdmom4ever said:


> *I have to admit I'm curious to see what they will turn out like*.


They're going to be stunning!  

Cindy


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

They are absolutely precious, no matter where they came from. I have some of mystery parentage too...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Gotta love that picture. That long black beak and that little white beak. Can't wait to see them grow up some. That one reminds me of my Scooter. Adorable.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

This may be a new breed of pidjn!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi Cathy,
> 
> I enjoyed the story and appreciate you sharing it and the pictures and the information-good to know that eggs laid 5 to 7 days after coupling aren't necessarily going to be from the current mate-if prior mating occured with flirtatious birds around.
> 
> Thank you.


That's why I shared the story--I thought it would helpful for someone else. I really thought the time between mating and egg laying was shorter. I was also surprised that Sasha mated while still sitting on her previous nest. I guess those Nuns are irresistable.  

Just to clarify, the purebred Taganrog is on the *right* in the first picture and on the *left *in the second photo. I'll share some more pictures of the mixed chicks as they grow. Yesterday the pinfeathers on the one shown here started to unfurl and the dark areas are going to be deep red, so he or she got mama's coloring anyway (my Taganrogs are red; my Nuns are black).


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Pigeons do fool around*

They have about a 15% to 20% infidelity rate. Not good for pure breeding but keeps their genes strong.

Bill


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

jbangelfish said:


> They have about a 15% to 20% infidelity rate. Not good for pure breeding but keeps their genes strong.
> 
> Bill


They sure do! Hence the individual breeding pen for babies I really want to be sure of. Among my rollers, there is one bird at the top of the pecking order, Piper. We jokingly refer to him as "The Pigeonator" because, though ordinary in our eyes, he is the boss of the loft and involved in everything that goes on. He has a distinctive eye marking, like white eyeliner around his eyes. Quite a few chicks from other pairs have turned up with that distinctive eyeliner, so I'm pretty sure Piper was involved. Yes, they do fool around.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cathy, how wonderful. No matter what they are I know you'll love them to pieces. 

Does this affect any future babies the Taganrog couple may have? (Provided the little Nun doesn't get in on the action again?  )


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

No, their next babies will be purebreds, because I'm keeping them alone in the breeding pen.  To tell the truth, the little ones are looking more like rollers every day, so I might have been wrong about the daddy being a Nun. I guessed that from the size, but now I'm not so sure. You tend to lose traits like crests very quickly with crossbreeds, though. I'll get some more pictures of the babies today. They _are _pretty cute.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I bet they are adorable Cathy, can't wait for the pics.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Looks like one will be a saddleback! congrats!


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## vouteman (May 17, 2008)

If you are breeding in an open loft(different breeds) then this is what will happen. While pigeons do mate pretty much for life they will breed with other birds. I have seen a cock bird drive a hen and when she stoops for him to tread her another cock bird will knock him of and tread the hen and bingo, you have hybrids. This is OK if you just want to raise pigeons, but if you want to raise pure pedigreed birds the only sure way is to put them into separate cages. That is the reason that most pedigrees are not worth the paper they are written on. The pedigree is only the parents and grand parents of the bird. It doesn't make the bird worth any more. A good pigeons keeper should keep detailed records. As pigeons keepers it is our duty to maintain our pigeons and to continue trying to improve our breed of choice.
Anthony


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

...which is why I put them in a separate breeding pen. Unfortunately, I didn't realize the hen's eggs had already been fertilized by a different cock. Next time they will be purebreds, because she is still alone with her mate in a separate pen.


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