# Questions about Pigeon behavior



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

My exposure to pigeons are the many lovely feral ones that inhabit my city. On my way to work in the AM hours, I will spot the same individual pigeons under bridges, on ledges and walking and bobbing, seeking some breakfast.

I have a few questions about pigeon behavior- if anyone couild answer, id be very grateful-

*Are pigeons territorial? Many birds are VERY territorial, driving off birds they don't know, but pigeons seem happy to share their dwelling with other pigeons. A ventilation grate high on the wall of a building near where I work is inhabited by at least 6 pigeons, and they all seem content to share...
I have never seen any of the pigeons fight....
Perhaps roomates are only pigeons friends, and strangers are driven off?


*How many pigeons tend to be in a flock? Is there one dominant 'Alpha pigeon', or is there no leadership?

Do pigeons stay only with pigeons they know, or will they fly anywhere and be with any pigeon?
Im inclined to believe pigeons establish a network of friends, and stick with them, becuase under the bridge down the street, the same group of pigeons has lived there fior years. What do you think?

*Pigeons seem very social- If a pigeon were raised in isolation, i am sure it would die from lonliness. So I think they have deep emotions. What do you think?

*Also, I have noticed pigeons seem to enjoy being around humans almost as much as they enjoy being around other pigeons. i dont think they are just waiting to be given food- i think pigeons enjoy the company of humans. What do you think? 
Pigeons seem to get along fine with other birds, but sparrows can annoy pigeons at time...
Sea Gulls are plain bullies, and will claim any food I attempt to feed the pigeons..Plus i have noticed the local gulls eat dead pigeons.
I highly doubt any pigeons and seagulls share any friendships..


* I notice male pigeons always try to impress the ladies with thier groovy dance...Usually the female just walks off, and the male seeks out another potential mate.
If the male finds a mate, will he stay with her for life, or will he be trying to impreganate every lady pigeon he finds?

*And lastly, I have seen an interesting pigeon behavior- One will appear to groom one another with his/her beak, then they will 'kiss', which looks as if each grabs the others beak and pulls. Is this part of the courtship ritual, or do established pigeon couples do this as a way to express mutual love for each other?

Thanks!
Pigeons forever!

TCS


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Excellent observations and questions .. I just gave you 5 stars!

I will try to be back later to address some of your items but must
abruptly depart right now to take in an injured baby bird.

Terry


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

*answers*

Here are a few answers as best I can:
*Are pigeons territorial? I have never seen any of the pigeons fight....
A: pigeons live close, but they do have their space which will be defended. Breeding season you will see males fighting over hens. Pigeons are as a rule community minded.


*How many pigeons tend to be in a flock? 
Any number, usually limited to nesting space and food availability.
Is there one dominant 'Alpha pigeon', or is there no leadership?
A: There is leadership when the flock is out and about, but at home, they stick to themselves.

Do pigeons stay only with pigeons they know, or will they fly anywhere and be with any pigeon?
Im inclined to believe pigeons establish a network of friends, and stick with them, becuase under the bridge down the street, the same group of pigeons has lived there fior years. What do you think?

A: Pigeons stay in one location. They will forrage for food all over, but return to their home base. Pigeons also know who belongs to their community.

*Pigeons seem very social- If a pigeon were raised in isolation, i am sure it would die from lonliness. So I think they have deep emotions. What do you think?

A: Pigeons are very social, their needs for "flock" are very strong. They are very loyal to their mates.
Large flocks often have many generations living togeather.

*Also, I have noticed pigeons seem to enjoy being around humans almost as much as they enjoy being around other pigeons. i dont think they are just waiting to be given food- i think pigeons enjoy the company of humans. What do you think? 

A: Pigeons live along side man, without problems, except from man. Pigeons will be loyal to their mate and offspring. If you have a pigeon that has bonded to you, without any other mate, they will be loyal to you forever.

Pigeons seem to get along fine with other birds, but sparrows can annoy pigeons at time...
Sea Gulls are plain bullies, and will claim any food I attempt to feed the pigeons..Plus i have noticed the local gulls eat dead pigeons.
I highly doubt any pigeons and seagulls share any friendships..

A: You are right...pigeons and perhaps doves are birds of a feather. Other birds are just competition for food.
Gulls will eat anything that moves or dies.
Pigeons are basically grain eaters, including wheat (bread) and french fries. They will eat bugs if very hungry.

* I notice male pigeons always try to impress the ladies with thier groovy dance...Usually the female just walks off, and the male seeks out another potential mate.
If the male finds a mate, will he stay with her for life, or will he be trying to impreganate every lady pigeon he finds?

A: Cock birds (males) chase most any hen birds (females) and will even mount an inocent hen, but if the male birds have a lifetime mate, they will always return to her.
Cock birds would like to impregnate every lady pigeon they find but the ladies do not all cooperate. Does that remind you of anyone?

*And lastly, I have seen an interesting pigeon behavior- One will appear to groom one another with his/her beak, then they will 'kiss', which looks as if each grabs the others beak and pulls. Is this part of the courtship ritual, or do established pigeon couples do this as a way to express mutual love for each other?

A: Grooming and beaking is part of being intimate, during courtship and after, most of the time.
The beak pulling is the cock feeding the hen. This is normal behavior between mates.

You have a very curious mind, hope you will consider visiting us often and learning more about how pigeons are so wonderfully made.

Regards,
Carl


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello and welcome to pigeons.com!

Nice to have you here, pigeons are very interesting and I love watching them myself. I learned a lot from just doing so and I'll try to answer some of your questions as best as I can:

1) I think pigeons are not very territorial, some males can be especially if they have a favourite nesting area. But I think they get along pretty well and only a new comer can have trouble for a little while until they accept the new bird.
I've seen many birds fight, especially large males with each other and sometimes even younger birds for favourite spots or roosting areas. It does not happen if the flock is small but if it is big and the birds get too close then they will fight. 

2) I would say between 25 and 75 or even 150 sometimes. My flock used to have up to 170 birds, not all stuck together though. As for leadership, I never seen much of this but there are usually a couple of large males and their mates who kind of dominate in a way.

And I do agree, the birds usually stick with the ones we know and in our area we have a few flocks but they don't mix much.

3) Pigeons are social but they will not die if issolated, birds that have been raised by humans will do very well, others can be tamed, some can not though and will be a bit depressed and in those cases it's best to have another birds as a friend/mate.

4) I find that pigeons are tame towards humans and are kind of semi domesticated in a way so this is why they hang around humans a lot and will eat close by..etc. And yes I've noticed that pigeons don't really like sparrows or starlings but they don't notice them much. I have seagulls in my area but they don't hang out with the pigeons much so I don't know.

5) Male pigeons will follow a female around until she accepts him but if she doesn't want to then she will peck back for him to leave her alone then he will go off and find another one (this takes days sometimes) and if a female does accept him she will still make him chase her around sometimes for up to a week until finally she will accept him. And most pigeons do pair up for life but some don't and switch mates occassionally.

6) And I know what you mean, this is called "billing" where the female either asks for food from the male or the male will try to give her by opening and fluttering his beak and she will put her beak inside to take food (like a baby does from his parents) 

Here is a site that might explain this:http://ehrweb.aaas.org/ehr/parents/Pigeons!.html 


Hope that answers most of your questions


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Excellent questions (and answers)! My take on these..

- Pigeons are sociable birds. There may be competition for mates or the best spots in their 'home' (just as in the aviary, for the top box or perch), often as young pigeons start to (try to) assert themselves, but when the hierarchy of the community is established they tend to get on pretty companionably. I do see pigeons battling over a morsel of food, inevitably, in the urban environment but that is a matter of survival.

- Many of the apparent flocks we see are temporary groupings of members of different flocks, which congregate at favored 'loafing' places or known feeding locations at around the same times each day. We feed a gathering in a city park and, although they wait around together, after feeding we often see them flying off in smaller groups or singly in different directions. London's Trafalgar Square used to host several thousand who would have come from many different locations around the city.

- Your observation on the bridge pigeons is exactly like mine. I have noticed that, in addition to the feeding gatherings, there are readily identifiable communities of pigeons which have made their home in specific locations for generations. Where there is limited roosting / nesting space, young adults may have to branch out and, maybe finding a mate at a feeding place, eventually fom the beginnings of a new community.

- Pigeons raised by people often do bond with 'their human', and seem to be content with that relationship, but I do think pigeons should have companionship of other pigeons. Feral pigeons have developed an affinity with humans over countless generations, being the result of centuries of semi-domestication. All the feral pigeons in N America are the descendants of the pigeons brought over by early European settlers, with a good sprinkling of dropped out racers, and I'm sure there is a 'race memory' of humans as 'providers'.

I see pigeons across the street, year after year, sharing lounging space on the roof with nesting Herring Gulls, but I believe it is an uneasy relationship. I have observed a gull carrying a baby pigeon to its nest for food, so I doubt the pigeons trust gulls too far. 

(As an aside, we saw last weekend how a pigeon might tolerate a member of another pigeon species, whilst defending food aginst his own - a Wood Pigeon was defending a couple pots of corn on the aviary shelter roof against other Wood Pigeons, but allowed the much smaller Eurasian Collared Dove to alight and feed from one of the pots.)


- Pigeons often, maybe mostly, do stick with the same mate for life, but they may change mates. They are not singlemindedly faithful, though - the male will certainly look for other opportunities to ensure his bloodline is carried on.

- The billing and grooming is part of the mating ritual. For an established pair, it is a renewal of the pair bond each time they become ready to breed (which, given favorable conditions, may be frequently!)

John


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## Snowbird (Jun 24, 2004)

For detailed answers see "Feral Pigeons" by Johnson & Janiga, 1995

1 Pigeons are colonizers so they get along, they are coded to survive better in a colony, but they also have a territoriality based on a chain of dominance--a pecking order. They fight, actually, more than other birds since they do not have lethal weapons relative to a crow or a hawk so fighting is rarely fatal. You see them live in peace because it has all been worked out. The idyllic image of pigeons is false, and if you live with a bunch of them you will clearly see this.

2 The flock will get just as big as the available roosting sites, nesting sites, and mainly food supply alllows. Passenger pigeons once darkened the skies for days in there passing--millions of birds in one flock. As the flock gets bigger there is no one alpha and no leader--there are several but they fly from trouble by a kind of consensus. It's only in small groups that one bird lords it over others.

3 They do both

4 Pigeons are most flexible and many have happy single birds, though my experience is they have a much richer life with other pigeons around. Emotions---for sure.

5 Wild pigeons do not much care for humans unless they take the time to form a relationship which must be first based on food, initially. 

6 Sparrows are a minor inconvenience to pigeons and they won't spend a lot of energy chasing them and they are not really mad at them. They pretty much don't care about other birds except big ones which they have to recognize on the instant. As you have noticed gulls are omnivorous, but they will not eat a good pigeon mix so get the right mix and the gulls will disappear. Gulls eat baby pigeons and are no threat to a healthy adult. Pigeons will flush from one by surprise because they have a falconlike profile. Pigeons don't have a big thing against gulls or crows or ravens except on the nest.

7 The cocks will stay with a hen as long as she is healthy in nearly all cases, though swapping does occur. The cocks will also mate with any other female willing, except in some strictly monogamous cases, usually a long term couple.

8 Mutual love is fanciful term though no one can say it is not a psychological reality in pigeons--my guess is they feel something different than what humans feel. Kissing and feeding by kissing is both a courting ritual and a foreplay everytime they mate.


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi Terry, Mary, John, carl and Snowbird- Thanks one and all for taking the time to address in great detail the questions I posed about pigeons.

Pigeons are wonderful creatures, and I think all of us here have been captivated by thier mystique.
I do have a couple more questions I would like to pose-

*I live in Boston MA (USA), and have often wondered if 100% of the pigeons I see walking around are rock doves- or are there in fact many different types of doves mixed in? 

*Could passenger or carrier pigeons have interbred with rock doves in the past, and thier decendents still be with us?

I wonder if the word 'pigeon' is a general term, used to describe all doves?
All pigeons are doves- but are all doves pigeons?

Is a Mourning Dove a pigeon, or just a dove?

I never could understand people who claim to love doves, but loathe pigeons. Pigeons ARE doves..how can one love one but not the other?
At a county fair where some of the fancy pigeons with the puffed out chests were on display, one owner confessed his dislike for rock doves, but he loved the type of dove he raises..

I suspect that there might be others types of doves living in my city, as Ive noticed some pigeons with unusually large beaks or differetly shaped eyes...

thanks for all the information!
Regards


Tarn Stephanos


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*"For detailed answers see "Feral Pigeons" by Johnson & Janiga, 1995"*

Snowbird - good taste in study literature 

Tarn - 

In response to your first point (and your last paragraph), about the only birds of the pigeon family you'd be likely to see around Boston would be feral pigeons and Mourning Doves (do MDs come into the city itself?). That is, unless Eurasian Collared Doves have infiltrated that far north. Far as pigeons go, what you see will be variations on a theme. We see ferals of different colorations, and to an extent sizes, around - including feathered feet, extra big cere (I call em 'big noses'), small and large eyes, etc. 

Ferals (or domestic pigeons on farms) would not have interbred naturally with Passenger Pigeons. Not to say no-one ever attempted an experiment with them, but I think I'm safe in saying the chances of offspring would have been zero.

Pigeon and dove are, technically, interchangeable names as they have no 'scientific' significance. Common or traditional usage, however, is another thing. Generally, smaller species tend to be called doves, larger ones pigeons - but that is not an infallible rule. The Rock Dove is also known as Rock Pigeon, for instance.

The Mourning Dove is of the pigeon family, one could say, but it is commonly termed a dove.

Think we have to consider that 'doves' are kept as pets or aviary birds - the tiny Diamond Dove, the variations of Ringneck, possibly even more exotic species such as Asian jungle-dwelling fruit pigeons - and are quite different to 'our' pigeons. Even with, say, fancy pigeons some people may like certain breeds and not others. Many racing fanciers, I suspect, have no time for 'street pigeons'. This can be simply because pigeons in carefully kept lofts could, potentially, pick up a pigeon-specific illness from contact with a city feral. But then, they could pick something up on race day from pigeons from a not so carefully kept loft.

The problem lies, I believe, in misconceptions about feral pigeons - mostly in the thing of them being a health risk. In fact, they are generally no more so than many other wild birds, animals or even domestic pets. Most people don't even have close contact with pigeons. Those who do know to take sensible hygeine precautions such as they would with any bird or animal. Pigeons are (relatively) quite sizeable, their poops are prolific and noticeable, they often hang out around people and in the urban scene man-made structures are their substitute for sea cliffs and caves. They seem very numerous, because we often see a lot gathered together to find food. Basically, their only 'crime' is that they are very obvious!

John


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

John,

You are so right in regard to the misconceptions people have toward ferals..Also that their only crime is that they are obvious.

I live in a town where the homes are pretty much on top of each other. My property is 50 x 100 feet, surrounded by neighbors. I have a feral flock of about eighty birds that visit every day for a good meal. I get up very early every day of the week to make sure the birds eat and drink and are on their way by 7:00 am the latest in the hope of escaping too much notice of the neighbors. I live in fear that one day, one of them will pick up the phone and report me and not only will I be subject to a $500.00 fine (ground feeding is illegal in our town), but worse, I would have to abruptly stop feeding, leaving all these birds hungry and confused for days untill they'd get the idea that the kitchen is closed forever. So, far there have been no complaints (at least not to my face), so, so far, so good.

It is a shame, as they really do no harm...neighbors cannot even really complain about the poop, since it is mainly on my property and I make sure to hose down, etc to stay clean. 

Oh well, thanks for letting me vent!

Linda


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Lyn,

I feed the collared doves in my gardens. I sprinkle food on the ground but they also like eating out of little pots of seed that I place on the aviary roof. Feeding them this way seems to have reduced the numbers that visit at any one time, but they all get fed. If the worst comes to the worst you might try that...

Cynthia


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks, that is a good idea. 

Linda


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for the detailed information John!

I assume 'feral' simply refers to pigeons that have escaped into the wild (be it nature or the cities).
Im just wondering if all of these feral pigeons I see in Boston are Rock Doves- or perhaps there are other types of doves mixed in...

Mouring Doves avoid Boston, but they are plentifull out in the country where there are plenty of trees.

There are apparently fines for feeding pigeons in Boston, but I have never seen a ticket issued. 

Another bird has apparently become enemey number 1 in the eyes of my city, and that is the Canada Goose. These Geese are everywhere-Like every life form, they eat, and they poop.

Thats why the authorities want these geese killed.
They are beautiful- and apparently tasty, as the autorities have plans to capture and kill as many geese as they can catch, and feed the geese to the homeless. I think New York has a similar plan.
Local experts have already been coating Canada Geese eggs with corn oil to prevent hatching.
But lucklily pigeons are so good at hiding thier nests, Im sure wannabe pigeon murderers will find few victims..


regards


Tarn Stephanos


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Indeed - basically, 'feral' just refers to any creatures (and their descendants) which were once domestic or captive, which escaped or were released, and which formed self-sustaining 'wild' communities.

The feral pigeons you see will be - technically - of species Columba livia (rock dove). But, don't forget that where lost racing pigeons and/or escaped fancy breeds have at some time mixed in with  'standard' ferals, we may see quite amazing variations in appearance.

Yes, the Canadas are often unpopular. They hang out on man made lakes around a large office complex I was working in last year, and someone must have a full time job cleaning up the poop  

John


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