# Domestic pigeon/dove? ... also wounded



## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

*Domestic pigeon/dove? ... also wounded *update at end of thread!**

My sis found this gorgeous birdie this evening, and we're trying to figure out if it's someone's pet or not. The coloration certainly doesn't look like anything wild I've ever seen. 

Also, it looks like it's been mauled by a cat, and not too recently, because it's not bleeding, but the two worst punctures, on the back, are a bit oozy and not looking too great. From some advice from a knowledgable Petsmart employee, I gently washed the wounds with warm water with a wee bit of vinegar mixed in--just barely enough to smell it. I also left it with a dish of water, dove seed mixed with finch seed, and a heating pad under a soft towel at one end of its box. I'm going to look for and call a bird vet tomorrow... I can't afford to treat and keep this bird as my own, but hopefully someone will be able to do something for it. Any advice on care and ID would be much appreciated!










Also I'm gonna post a pic of the wound.... kinda icky just to warn you to turn back if you don't want to see it!
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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi There, 

Thank you for rescuing this beautiful young pigeon. Do you have knowledge that it WAS mauled by a cat or did someone see this? If it was a cat attack and it very well could be, this bird is going to need medicine right away to prevent a bacterial overload that will likely kill it.

Can you tell us where you are located and perhaps we can find someone near to you or a rehabilitator to take the bird off your hands?


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks for the fast reply!

No, I don't know for sure what caused these injuries. That's the best conclusion I could come up with based on the placement and nature of the wounds. I've seen plenty of cat maulings before (i'm a vet tech student) but you never know. I live near Philly PA... our only local rehabber (Schuykill Wildlife Rehab Center) has been closed down because their rehabber risigned! I know bummer... I was just starting volunteering there too when it happened and I had been really looking forward learning more about birds. There is another one sort of in the area, the AARK, but it's too far away for me to get there...

I really want to help this bird... I figured it would need antibiotics ASAP which is why I'm trying to get it to a vet tomorrow. Heck, I might even be able to bring it to the vets at school (teachers). I don't know if any of them are very experienced with birds, but if someone could tell me what meds a pigeon needs, and dosages, they might have the right things on hand.

Also, from this pic is it possible to tell if it's a wild or deomestic pigeon? I just can't get over it's gorgeous markings! Also you can't tell from the pic but the eyes are a dark chocolatey-brown, if that helps.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Again, 


You're most welcome. Sounds like you are very aware of many things which is good. The medicine needed to treat a bird that has suffered a cat attack, it's called augmentin, an antibiotic.

It does look like a domesticated pigeon of some kind, although I'm not totally sure. Wild pigeons can also have rather unique patterns and markings at times due to many cross breedings with domestics over time.

I'm going to search for some other rehabbers in your area, please stand by.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi again, 

Here is a listing of various rehabbers in PA, have a look because I am not familiar with all the little towns and cities and perhaps something is close by to you. 

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactN.htm#pa

Let us know and good luck!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Ratwings,

Bird needs to be on Clavamox ASAP .. high dose. That's a nasty wound but not fatal. Pigeons are tough patients. Baytril may also work but Clavamox would be my choice. Since the bird has no bands, it's a feral .. doesn't mean it wasn't raised by someone as a pet, but most likely not. Thank you so much for helping this bird.

Terry


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks for that list! Unfortunately, those are too far away. I have no car and can't impose a long trip on anyone at the moment. I'll call around to some vets first thing tomorrow and see what I can do. I will definately remember that name, augmentin.

Oh one more thing... I might have to just get the meds from a vet I know who doesn't know birds but would probably sell me the augmentin if she had it. If so I will need dosages and how to administer the meds. Of course this is my last resort if I can't take it to a bird vet.

Thanks again! I'll update tomorrow.

Julie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Julie, 

I'm not completely sure about the augmentin, I'm sorry....this medication is mostly unfamiliar to me because I've never used it myself or needed to. Another member here has often mentioned this name to me (augmentin), but Terry is also a very experienced person and she recommends the clavamox so perhaps you should go with this instead. Sorry for any confusion here and sorry that none of the rehabbers in that list were of use to you. 

Sounds like a good plan, calling around to various vets tomorrow for sure

Please keep us posted on what the outcome is,


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Okay, I'm pretty sure I can get clavamox. I did my externship for school with this vet, and I got stuck in the pharmacy a lot, lol. I don't remember seeing augmentin, which doesn't mean anything of course since that was a few months ago and my main priority wasn't memorizing their inventory.  Clavamox I know they definately have. 

TAWhatley, do you know dosages/administration instructions for clavamox? I don't have a scale or anything, but it looks to me like your average sized pigeon, at least compared to the ones I see all over the place.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Brad & Terry, 

I'm jumping in a bit late here, but according to searches I've done they are one in the same, the difference being that it is called Augmentin in the states. I had an infected cat scratch and was prescribed Augmentin, so this did ring true. I also invoked Nooti thru search engine here and found a thread where she translated for an emergency situation and said Clavamox in the states would be called Augmentin. Hope this helps.

Ratwings, the bird looks like a young bird, perhaps feral. I've seen many w/this coloration in feral flocks, the eyes and feet make me think it is a young one, and very handsome at that. Hope you are able to get the meds you need.

Best,

fp


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Another question! As if I didn't have enough...

If this bird is feral or wild, what would be the kindest thing to do for it once it has healed completely (assuming it heals completely)? Would it be kinder to release it into the wild or keep it as a pet? My sister really likes it and would love to keep it. There is also a nature center I used to volunteer at that kept white doves... They might still and they might be willing to take this one. But if this is a wild bird that is meant to fly free, I do not want to imprison it. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself here, because I can't know enough to make that decision yet, but I just wanted to know all my options.


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks for that advice feralpigeon! That's funny, because i live in the states and clavamox is a very common antibiotic and i've never heard it called anything else. huh...


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Julie, 


Yes, I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself Understandable though for sure....when/if that time comes, perhaps you can just judge by the bird itself. Whether or not it tames down and seem to like human company. If the bird remains antsy or timid, then perhaps letting him/her have it's freedom back would be best. One bridge at a time though is in order here


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

The pigeon that I found never did tame down. So I let it go free, but it comes back every now and then to feed on the seeds that I left out for it.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Clavamox/Augmentin Dosage Info*

Here is a copy of the dosage and usage info originally posted by Helen (Nooti):

_AMOXYCILLIN AND CLAVULANIC ACID (Synulox, Clavamox) Dose - up 
to 50 mgs per kilo BID if injection or up to 125mgs per kilo TID 
(three times daily) orally- up to 3 weeks. Dose and dosing interval 
determined by infection site, severity and organism involved. Used 
to treat severe or deep puncture wounds, and helps greatly in 
preventing the spread of necrotic tissue. Is also effective against 
gut E.coli.

It is not recommended that this drug be given orally in the case of 
critically ill patients as absorption from the GI tract is 
unreliable, however many people do not have access or knowledge to 
give by injection so orally is the only option and better than 
nothing.

This drug has a much broader spectrum than Baytril and therefore 
will treat a much greater range of ailments. Can be used in 
conjunction with Trim Sulphas. Refrigerate oral suspension and 
discard after 10 days or if liquid becomes dark. Avoid concurrent 
use with tetracycline, erythromycin and chloramphenicol._

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here are a few links to Nooti posts clarifying US brand name of Augmentin:


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7593&highlight=Augmentin

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7614&highlight=Augmentin

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=1200&highlight=Augmentin

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Also a couple of links for those who like to have meds on hand for rehab purposes and can't find the Clavamox/Augmentin drug w/out script, it can be had @ this link w/out script. Expect ordering/shipping process to take 2 to 3 weeks.

Price/name list:

http://www.medsmex.com/xcart/custom/list_products.php

Homepage:

http://www.medsmex.com/xcart/customer/home.php

Hope this helps others not currently in emergency!

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

A topical Antibiotic powder might be good for this in addition to other medicines adminstered orally or as may be...

Nitrofurizone ( powder) if you can get some, would be a good choice. I used to encounter a lot of large Dog eyeteeth punctures resembleing the injuries shown in the image of your Bird, and I was always pleased with the Nitrofurizone.

That, or some form of Neosporin, which would also have the benifit of meeping the area moist at the same time. Eve the regular Neosporin in-a-tube that is sold at any grocery store or drug store would be pretty good for this. Just apply every day with a clean finger tip or fresh Q-tip...

Otherwise your Bird sure looks good for someone who has slipped through the jaws of hell...

Good luck!

Very pretty Bird...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Just a thought, but if you can get the Neosporin cream as opposed to ointment it would be better for the feathers.

fp


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks for all the info! Huh, neosporin, I wouldn't have thought! I'll do that tomorrow.

So here's the update... I couldn't get any meds today. I was turned down by one place, and the other place for some reason couldn't fit me in. I'll call again in the morning, but I think they weren't sure if they wanted to just sell me medicine for a wild bird... understandable I guess, but I really don't see the harm in it. Oh well, what do I know!

The good news that the pigeon is doing really well. The wound looks a lot better. It seems to be closing up and scabbing a bit, certainly not as seepy and "wet" looking as when I first saw it. It is also very active, walking around, alert, warm, etc. I'm going to move it to a bigger cage tomorrow morning, since at the moment it's just in a plastic recylclables bin with a screen on top.

I really really hope I can the meds tomorrow... it would be such a shame for something like an infection to hurt this bird after it's survived an attack and is doing so well.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ratwings, 


The antibiotics can be indeed quite important for injuries such as yours has.

The topical antibiotic, and, also, one for their system as a whole.

If you ca find any Pigeon Fanciers or rehabbers in your area you might do well to contact them.

Tell any Vets you are calling that you wish to take care of this Bird and see if they will allow you any courtesy as for the cost of a visit. They will reliably never merely give out meds or sell them without their having personallu examined the patient, and made the determination as to the suitiblility of the meds for the patient...

So, try and find out if a Vet will see you and the Bird, telling them up front that it is a wild Bird you rescued and intend to take care of untill it is well...and ask them what is their policy on that sort of thing. 

Maybe they will see you for free or for a reduced rate, and, give you the meds or sell them to you cheap.


...where are you located?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Long story short, I was able to get Baytril for the bird. I know it's not the ideal but it's better than nothing. My vet spoke with a bird vet and they gave me the Baytril, no problem. Maybe it's not technically what they are supposed to do, but I've worked with them before and they know I'm not going to make a fuss about anything. (This is the same vet I mentioned talking to yesterday, just turns out they couldn't get in touch with me before closing.) The dose is .22 cc orally 2x a day. With help from my sister (one to hold the bird, one to give meds) we were able to give it the meds very easily considering it's feeling lots better and flips out whenever I go near it! It calms once I pick it up though and doesn't struggle. What a good little bird! I also put neosporin on the wounds.

One question though. It doesn't appear to be eating very much. In fact, it seems to prefer it's food dish as a nest and a toilet. I thought maybe it wanted something to perch on, so I added a rock and a branch to it's cage. I scattered a bit of seed on the floor around the dish, thinking maybe it's not used to eating from a cup, but I still haven't seen it eat, nor do I notice any decrease in the amount of seed in the dish or on the floor. Is there anything I can do to encourage it to eat?

Thanks again for all your help.

Oh and I am located near Philadelphia PA.


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Good news! I just checked on pidgie and quite a bit of food has mysteriously disappeared.  I guess it got it's appetite back! I think it's happier in it's bigger cage.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is great news.
He must be feeling better.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Glad to hear the pij is feeling better and in capable hands  

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ratwings,

Good to hear...

Sometimes when injured or ill they can seem to loose their interest in eating...always a good thing when they are interested of course..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Soooo... I think this pigeon is well on it's way to recovery! On Tuesday it will be finsihed its 10-day course of baytril. The wounds are almost completely healed and I can see the beginnings of feathers growing back in. It's eating like a horse and will put up a fight at any chance--this is no tame bird!

Now I'd like to start learning about how to know when a bird is ready to be released, and how to go about doing it.

Thanks soooo much for all the help ya'll have been so far. I couldn't have done it without you. I'm so glad I was able to help this bird!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Ratwings,

That's great news. Good news also that it's "full of it" as well. If you could do a "soft release" that would be great....if there is a spot nearby where there is a flock of pigeons that you know of, you could release there. Go by there and feed them to get them used to you. In the meantime, make sure yours has free fly time at home to get strengthened up. Then start bringing the bird in a carrier to the spot where you are feeding the flock. Withold food on yours and feed when you feed the flock. After a few times of doing this, you can feed yours w/door open and see if yours is interested in joining the flock. The last visit preferably should be in am so that if it chooses to walk out of carrier and join others, it has the day to acclimate to surroundings. Should be fine. 

Best,

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Ratwings said:


> Soooo... I think this pigeon is well on it's way to recovery! On Tuesday it will be finsihed its 10-day course of baytril. The wounds are almost completely healed and I can see the beginnings of feathers growing back in. It's eating like a horse and will put up a fight at any chance--this is no tame bird!
> Now I'd like to start learning about how to know when a bird is ready to be released, and how to go about doing it.
> Thanks soooo much for all the help ya'll have been so far. I couldn't have done it without you. I'm so glad I was able to help this bird!


Glad to hear the bird is well on its way to a full recovery.

Thank you for taking such good care of this bird.

Here is a thread that will help with the release aspect.

http:www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10874


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ratwings, 


Beig this is late adolescent Bird, maybe keep them a week more after you feel confident their injuries have healed. 

And consider to let them loose about where you first found them if that seems sensible to do and other Birds frequent that area.

As others mentioned above, let them have plenty of opportunity to excercise their Wings and gain flight muscles and conditioning.

I have a feral nesting pair in the eves here, 12 feet up, and their two most recent Babys just yesterday made their debut!

They look not unlike yours as for age and developement, so sometimes, Birds quite 'new' to the outside World may appear at the stage of developement yours is.

These Birds of course are merely poised to acquire the learnings of their needed ad accruening experiences and associations with the society of their peers and comrades in the wilds, and sometimes get into troubles for various reasons as they are embarked in their education.

It is certaily a convenience when they may eat on their own, and many of course at this stage even, have not yet done so. Likely, lower nests or nests situated where stages of hopping or little flight of a few feet elevation, make for earlier forays to the ground. 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks for the info!

Hmmmm... any hints on how I can safely let it exercise it's wings before I release it? There is no way my parents are going to be okay with a wild pigeon flying around the house!

As for a release site... the bird was found on my street, just a few houses down. Across the street is a building and parking lot where there has always been a flock of pigeons hanging around. I'm assuming this is where the pigeon came from, so I will be releasing it in this area.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Ratwings said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> Hmmmm... any hints on how I can safely let it exercise it's wings before I release it? There is no way my parents are going to be okay with a wild pigeon flying around the house!
> 
> As for a release site... the bird was found on my street, just a few houses down. Across the street is a building and parking lot where there has always been a flock of pigeons hanging around. I'm assuming this is where the pigeon came from, so I will be releasing it in this area.



Well, do you have a garage or basement that would be appropriate to let him fly for a couple of hours a day?? If not, maybe go in your bedroom w/him and close the door. 

Good idea about the flock accross the street. Just try and do it at a time when they are around and try and aquaint him with that area beforehand.

Also, good for him to know how to find you again just in case.

fp


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Basement is a no. It would be way to dangerous. Lots of boxes and tools and pipes and piles of junk for it to fly into/behind. We won't even let our dog out there.

I suppose I could let it in my room... but it is a wild animal and it does have lice, and I do keep my pet rats in my room. It's a very small room and my rats have free range (not all the time... but I'm worried about them getting pigeon germs.) Maybe I'm just being a wimp, but I don't like the idea of pigeon poo and those gross pigeon lice all over my bed. :-/

Okay, I just typed all that out, and then I got a revelation. I don't how I didn't think of it. I have a pet chicken, whoe lives in a screened in enclosure, with a roof. It's big, since it used to be a screened in porch. In fact, about 9 years ago I had raised a baby pigeon out there. It's a perfect aviary. I guess I didn't think of it until now because it's "occupied" at the moment. But my chicken gets to roam around our yard during the day sometimes, and I could just let birdie flap around while she's out. I certainly wouldn't want them to be out there together. My chicken is a little... territorial. There are these squirrels that have chewed a hole in one screen and always eat her food, and now she chases them off. She probably wouldn't like an intruder.

OKay now I have an actual questiona after all that blabbing! How does one safely catch a very frightened bird which flapping about in one's porch? I can hardly catch this bird in it's little rabbit cage, that's how much it really doesn't like me. And now it squeaks at me when I pick it up.

Also, this is kinda funny. A few days ago, my sister and I were in the livivng room and we hear this odd noise... which we realised was the bird flapping! My sister ran downstairs to check on it, thinking it was caught on something... but no, it was just sitting on it's rock, flapping it's wings. And apparenty my dad has been hearing it doing that too. It's like it's doing physical therapy, lol.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Ratwings,

Minimonkeys call that the Hellicopter thing, which would be a pretty good description. I swear, DD must have been getting tips from Jack LaLaine or something...she'll get on a bookshelf, back up to the edge so that her heals are hanging off and helicopter. The other thing she'll do is get on the floor and helicopter on her tippy toes. It is so cute I can't stand it. 

If you can afford some scalex, maybe 6 or 7 bucks, fashion a little hood out of an old sock cut off somewhere around the arch and put over head, then spray under wings and tail and flip side, pull hood off and pij should be feeling much better for mite stuff in a short while.

So glad you figured something out for the young one to practice with. You'd be surprised, tho, the last one I released ended up practically leading the flock. She flies so high and did right off the bat when I brought her back to the flock, that is, once she decided to get off my arm and go with them.

Best, 

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Ratwings - you've done a great job with your pigeon. One word of caution though - if the screened in outdoor cage has holes in it don't leave the pigeon out there at night. He'd be a "sitting duck" for predators. maggie


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Heehee! Helicopter, lol.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Scalex. I might even have some left over someplace. I used it once to treat my rats for mites (worked great!).

Oh yeah, I was going to do supervised play time only. Definately not overnight. (gotta let the chicken have her home back at night anyway!)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi ratwings, 


It is easy to grasp or gently catch a roosting Pigeon if it is night, or at least fairly dark.

When I have recovered adult Ferals in here, free flying indoors for their final time of me making sure they are fine now, who have not decided that letting me pick them up is smething to go along with, that is my recourse in here - when I am ready to release them, I just grab them gently in the very dim light of night-time from their high roosts and set them in a cage then for the next day's release.

So getting your's back in from the screened in pen or porch, should be easy if you do it that way...

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Ratwings (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks I'll keep that in mind!


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