# How to rate a pigeon!



## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

*Is Your Pigeon A Possible Champion?find Out Here!*

*BEFORE READING THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, PLEASE PRIVATELY MESSAGE ME IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO WRITE A GUIDE ON SOMETHING ELSE, OR IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD ME AS A FRIEND.*


There are many factors that will decide whether or not your pigeon will exceed in a race, and maybe even win one!

1. Is your pigeon in good health? Pink tongue, pink flesh, no illnesses. Check for worms and other things before you race your pigeon 

2. Muscle: Check for big muscles along the keel and in the bisceps and triceps. SIZE MUST ALSO BE IN GOOD PROPORTION TO THE WINGS.
3. Spirit: Pull the pigeons beak. If the pigeon struggles to fight back then he/she has good spirit. This means that the pigeon will try hard in a race

4. Wings: Must be big and the tips of the primaries pretty round. The pigeon's wings must also be silky

5. HLREO: This means High Level La Verne Theory Rapid Eye Orientation. This means that if while holding your pigeon's head still and looking into its eye, your pigeon should be moving its pupil in multiple directions. If the pigeon's eye stays in the center, that is bad. I will not go into detail of why your pigeon should have good HLREO but you can research it to better understand what i'm saying.

6. FOOD: In order for your pigeon to be healthy, muscular, and fit, you must feed your pigeon the right food. Always feed your pigeon food with high amounts of protein.Also, the night before a race, and morning, give your pigeon food with a pretty high amount of carbohydrates. This will give your pigeon more energy when He or She races.

* IMPORTANT!*

There will be many myths of what to look for in a pigeon or how to win races... don't believe them right away. research this "method" on the internet before deciding to believe it or not.
* I'm sorry to all those "eyesign people" out there, but I personally don't believe in all of that though it is quite interesting.*


Follow these guidlines and you will be able to Rate your bird fairly accurately.

I hope that this helped and *PLEASE LEAVE YOUR COMMENTS* on your thoughts about what i have said.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

octavio3151992 said:


> There are many factors that will decide whether or not your pigeon will exceed in a race, and maybe even win one!
> 
> 
> 1. Is your pigeon in good health? pink tongue, pink flesh, no illnesses. Your pigeon should be in good health.
> ...


Was this post in response to a question from someone or just as general info to anyone reading this? Just wondered, it seemed a bit out of place to me, perhaps I missed something.

Dan


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*I think....*

Octavio is sharing his expertise to us which is good, I can learn more from others opinion...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for sharing those factors, octavio. 

I have to agree on the basics of vibrant health coming into play, and also the size and proporiton of the wings, and I'm sure there are other things to look at. Quite interesting about the rapid eye orientation.

Perhaps others would care to share/add their expertise opinions/thoughts on rating pigeons for racing???


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I was told to evaluate birds from a good friend like this:

1) Bone structure.

2) Muscle mass in proportion to overall mass.

3) Feather and wing flights quality.

4) Boyuancy and balance.

5) Character (cocks are aggressive, and hens are calm but very alert).

These are some traits I noticed about my best breeders and racers. I'm not saying they're right, but they work for me.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for sharing, Kal-El.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks, for shairing this infomation with us sure helps someone like me who has only
been here two years. Thanks


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

The feather and wing quality is also very important.
If you want a book that will teach you all about rating pigeons and winning races... look up the author Bradley la verne. He has been racing pigeons for over 50 years.


I learned a lot from him


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

*Important!!!!!!*

If you want me to write a guide on something related to pigeon racing like breeding techniques, racing methods, etc., please post a reply on what you want and i may possibly do so....

thanks....


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks for the tips!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

octavio3151992 said:


> There are many factors that will decide whether or not your pigeon will exceed in a race, and maybe even win one!
> 
> 
> 1. Is your pigeon in good health? Pink tongue, pink flesh, no illnesses. Check for worms and other things before you race your pigeon
> ...



Very Interesting. What is your personal record as far as winning various money races etc. ? I ask this because anyone can state various opinions on a subject, but creditability from actually having won various important events makes your opinions much more valuable. The readers here may not be aware of your history, and sharing your history of success would be much appreciated.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Very Interesting. What is your personal record as far as winning various money races etc. ? I ask this because anyone can state various opinions on a subject, but creditability from actually having won various important events makes your opinions much more valuable. The readers here may not be aware of your history, and sharing your history of success would be much appreciated.


I'll second that, Mr. Smith. I knew Mr. La Verne Till his death and I can remember 15 or 20 pigeon functions at which we talked over basic pigeon things and later got into his HLREO, and this was before and as the book was coming out, which he is right is a great book which I've read cover to cover close to a dozen times. He was a great pigeon man because of his experience and time spent studying and playing with his birds. Which were all tame and comfortable with his presence. Which is something he and now I believe is important to success when it comes to winning races off the landing board. He'd be the first to point out a person with a big mouth and a small race record. I can remember him telling me once, soon before his death, 'To Keep going Matthew, Experience makes you a good pigeon man.' So, I too would be very interested in see Your history as far as competition goes in this sport.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I really want a scientific studies of winning pigeons. I haven't found one yet. Everyone have their own criteria of winning pigeons. Octavio's list is fine with me, but there is this possibility that it might not be enough. (Note: I don't race). We can't also exclude the fancier(trainer), luck, the weather, loft location ,etc. I honestly don't know whether one bird can fit in all race scenario.

I was watching several youtube videos about loft race and I noticed that a faster bird may not necessarily win because it didn't trap first. I suppose this thread will end up with a discussion of what makes a pigeon a winning pigeon.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Rod, I don't think you will find a study like you are thinking of. Nothing is 100 percent in pigeons. In some areas different birds do better than in others so what some people look for is totally different. There is some stuff people like to see in a pigeon but it is different for everyone. There is continued interview with some great flyers and some graders of pigeons in the digest right now and they don't agree on much. That shows even some of the best are looking for different things. Even if someone could invent a standard for a perfect pigeon you will never know if that pigeon has a high drive and heart to win. You never know what is on the inside, even a pigeon with a horiable build might be a great winner cause it wants to be out front and will fight to get there. 

Don't get me wrong even though I am new to racing I have a pigeon type I like and that works for me but you never know. I like a small to medium pigeon with a good chest build not too deep keeled, a single tail feather, tight vents, a small space between the end of the keel and the vents (one finger wide), a shorter forearm, regular size primary flights not a butter knife and not a steak knife (preferable close to the same length), a good eye, and I want the bird to fight in your hands and be agressive when handled. I also like birds that take the top nest boxes. Nobodies pigeons are going to have it all but this is the stuff I look for.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree with you ohiogsp. I've read a lot of stuff already with many views from different champions. I am basically looking for some sort of base ideal if such any exist. With my background in science I think I ended up wanting some data that I can study. For example, I want to know the commonality of those winning pigeons. Do they have certain characteristics that separate them from the rest of non-winning pigeons, etc.? Thanks!


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I agree with you ohiogsp. I've read a lot of stuff already with many views from different champions. I am basically looking for some sort of base ideal if such any exist. With my background in science I think I ended up wanting some data that I can study. For example, I want to know the commonality of those winning pigeons. Do they have certain characteristics that separate them from the rest of non-winning pigeons, etc.? Thanks!


Certain characteristics.... feathers, eyes, feet. That's about it. Three pigeons come to mind; Dreamboy, The White Bandit, and a great old delbar cock that was a crack 500 mile racer. These all were good racer one for sprint, one for sprint/middle distance, and the delbar was a great long distant racer. They have very little in common. I've held all three before. The only one thats still around is dreamboy. But If you had all three of them side by side they'd leave you scratching your head. How can three birds that had race records like they had all be so different. Well 1. they all raced different distances 2. they all came from different stock 3. they all flew a different race course 4. they all were raised differently. There is very little common ground when it comes to winners in general. I can tell you that our 500 mile race winners from my combine (north of the grade) all are of one type. But below the grade they are different type of pigeon. There are so many different factors that go into a winning pigeon besides the physical make up of the bird. What is a cull in my loft could be an ace pigeon on the east coast or vice versa. I knew a guy that came from new york and had won countless 500 mile races there and was 'the king of the 500 miler.' Little did he know his 'tough birds' were way to wimpy for our course. He lost most in training and it was 6 years before he had a single bird left over from young birds. Now arguably he didn't change his stock or methods. So what would have won him 500 milers in new york, got him laughed at over here. That guy moved away because of our race course. What I am trying to say is that you can not go anywhere and say 'This is how a winner looks.' You'll be laughed at. From my 100 mile race station my birds have to cross over three valleys and go from 100 degrees to 60 degrees then back to 85 degrees. My winners probably could only win here. So my opinion is that if you spend the rest of your life looking for the 'perfect form' what a waste of your life. You ain't going to find it since it don't exist. If I had to say one thing helped in all areas and distances it would be one thing; three-layered pectoral muscle. But there are lots of birds that have that and have a hard time flying around the loft, or birds that don't have it but still win races. Pigeons are just complex.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks Matt,

I am not looking for a perfect form. I don't believe that exist. As you have mentioned each bird is unique on its own right. There is a short , medium, long distance bird. If I am doing scientific studies on these, then I will only concentrate on certain groups. I can't compare sprint bird with distance bird. But rather sprint to sprint or long distance to long distance. I have this fantasy of measuring the difference in red or white muscle cells count and see if there is any difference in oxygen intake for example. Real science if you will.

In humans, for example, Lance Armstrong seems to have bigger lung capacity. That may have been his advantage. The people of Inca (Peru) has this lung capacity that can let them breathe easier than non-Peruvian on high altitude mountain. Basically evolution let them evolve that way. For pigeons I am still looking for that. Obviously for aerodynamics I already know the advantage of some pigeons. Having graduated with Biology (favorite= DNA analysis), I like facts.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I like facts.


Well the fact is, and i don't mean to rain on your parade, (I would be interested in this study too) but the fact is that the racer hasn't been around for all that long and is always being crossed with different families and gene pools. If there was someone that had a family of birds that had been raced from the same loft in the same place as it was 150 years ago without any crossing or new blood introduced to it. That would be your best bet. But chances are they wouldn't be good birds. If you come back to do your study in the pigeon sport in about 500 years it would be easier. But from such a young breed, they aren't really all the same. I'd give the gene pool another 500 years to settle down and then this study might work. I'm no scientist.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Matt,

You know I can't live for 500 years! Unfortunately, scientists seem to be more interested in cognitive and navigational abilities of pigeons than performance analysis. Obviously aerodynamic experts studied wings already that pigeon fanciers seem to benefit from. Fanciers are supporting those facts like knife-butter wings, etc, is good.

With respect to evolution I believe you are misunderstanding my point. We created this breed (racer) and we selectively choose the winners and breed them together. That selective breeding is like evolution in fast pace. We probably don't need 500 years or so.

My point is that if we can at least study these winning birds, we can learn something about them.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*A Different Point of View*

My take on all of this is that I think you are beating your head against the wall! Lets forget about pigeons for a second and look at performance race horses. The textbook thoroughbred that is typical among great race horses is one that is tall, slender and very muscled in the chest with a long slender head. This is what many top breeders of race horses look for. I will give you two examples where this just didn't play out.

1) One of the finest champions to ever walk onto a racetrack was Secretariat. He was a triple crown winner and won those races by huge margins. A friend of mine actually got to see and handle this horse. She is very knowledgable and no slouch when it comes to horse flesh. She told me that Secretariat looked like nothing more than a big quarter horse. He was tall, but had huge rear hind quarters (not a desirable trait among race folks). He had a quarter horse head (short and broad) and looked like he just came in from a quarter horse cutting arena. Yet, this horse absolutely dominated the horse world.

2) Another great thoroughbred champion was Seabisquit. This was a case where the horse was short, poorly muscled and outwardly lazy and was widely considered to be ugly. He was almost culled on numerous occasions and was given up on by many of the finest trainers of his day. Yet this horse went on to beat the best its day had to offer, namely War Admiral and many others.

Why did these animals enjoy such success when their outward appearence showed such little promise? Because they had something the others didn't. An undying, unquenchable will to win. Namely heart. This is something that just can't be seen via outward appearance. It is something that must be recognized and cultivated by very savy handlers that understand that what is important is not what is on the outside but what drives it on the inside. This desire prevails, time and time again, over any physical faults the individual may display.

Sure we can speculate on tight vents, circles of correlation, feather type, pin tails, etc., etc. but in the end it is the ones that have the drive to come home hard when others do not that will distinguish them. I know that there will be many that disagree but there are just too many examples all over the performance venues of all sorts of animals and humans that will prove this out, at least to me.

Dan


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

learning said:


> My take on all of this is that I think you are beating your head against the wall! Lets forget about pigeons for a second and look at performance race horses. The textbook thoroughbred that is typical among great race horses is one that is tall, slender and very muscled in the chest with a long slender head. This is what many top breeders of race horses look for. I will give you two examples where this just didn't play out.
> 
> 1) One of the finest champions to ever walk onto a racetrack was Secretariat. He was a triple crown winner and won those races by huge margins. A friend of mine actually got to see and handle this horse. She is very knowledgable and no slouch when it comes to horse flesh. She told me that Secretariat looked like nothing more than a big quarter horse. He was tall, but had huge rear hind quarters (not a desirable trait among race folks). He had a quarter horse head (short and broad) and looked like he just came in from a quarter horse cutting arena. Yet, this horse absolutely dominated the horse world.
> 
> ...


I would agree that without a will to win; a pigeon will never live up to its full potential. We speculate on tight vents, (not on eye sign for me), feather type, pin tails, etc. etc. because with a pigeon that meets all these physical needs we can still have a good pigeon. A physically poor pigeon that is born (or taught in my opinion) to have a will to win can be a good race pigeon also. But when You combine both the 'physical requirements' and the 'will to win' into a pigeon you get a 'super' that needs no motivation and will still ride the top of the race sheet. Many pigeons do not have the will to win and yet we have bred them to have the physical requirements. This is why we have come up with ways to instill the will to 'race' home in them through special systems; widowhood, double widowhood, celibate hens, nest system and so on. This way even when we have failed to instill the natural love of home, mate, box, and fancier in our pigeons we can still trick our birds to coming home, fast.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I think many of you are not understanding my point. When I mean base I mean like if you look at a bell curve graph, you are looking at the middle or average. There will always be an exceptions to the rule like Secretariat or Seabisquit shows.

Here is my take of a winning pigeon. It must have a physical characteristics (aerodynamics). It must have a will/desire. Its internal biology must provide the necessary means for the bird to get where it is going like navigational skills, muscles, etc. The gene will probably play significance, too, as birds of some family/strain seem to have similar characteristics. Other characteristics I mentioned at previous posts.

(Note: I am only a backyard flier so if you race most likely you know more about this than I do.)


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I think many of you are not understanding my point. When I mean base I mean like if you look at a bell curve graph, you are looking at the middle or average. There will always be an exceptions to the rule like Secretariat or Seabisquit shows.
> 
> Here is my take of a winning pigeon. It must have a physical characteristics (aerodynamics). It must have a will/desire. Its internal biology must provide the necessary means for the bird to get where it is going like navigational skills, muscles, etc. The gene will probably play significance, too, as birds of some family/strain seem to have similar characteristics. Other characteristics I mentioned at previous posts.
> 
> (Note: I am only a backyard flier so if you race most likely you know more about this than I do.)


We understand what you are saying, but you're not understanding what we are saying. From a racer's point of view is where we are coming from. We have pigeons that for over a century have been bred to have all those things you are talking about. Most do have those qualities. After a century of racing, selective breeding, and severe culling us pigeon racers have come up with a breed that (although it can have great diversity when compared to itself like i pointed out in one of my earlier posts) has all those things you look for. Now we look for the ones that are more developed in those areas than everyone else to breed from and try and develop those traits more over. All pigeons have the things you pointed out to some degree; its our job to take the most developed and make a pigeon so developed in those areas that makes a winner that it will surpass all pigeons before it. That is pigeon racing in a nut shell.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I get it! LOL! I think my example of graph confused some of you. In your graph you are referring to the farthest right where the champion birds are. Those are the birds where have traits that are more developed and selectively breed to continue or develop more. When I mentioned my hypothetical graph I was referring to a group of champion birds already and I was looking for their similarity/commonality. We basically are talking about 2 different graphs and I believe that confusion started this misunderstanding.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

RodSD said:


> I get it! LOL! I think my example of graph confused some of you. In your graph you are referring to the farthest right where the champion birds are. Those are the birds where have traits that are more developed and selectively breed to continue or develop more. When I mentioned my hypothetical graph I was referring to a group of champion birds already and I was looking for their similarity/commonality. We basically are talking about 2 different graphs and I believe that confusion started this misunderstanding.


My point on the race horse analogy was to point out that among those birds that are already on the right side of your performance bell curve you will find, I believe, little similarity in their phenotypes. Their outward structures will all vary greatly. You will find similarities within families, but when comparing across the genetic and family lines on a national or international basis you will get the whole gamit of physical traits. I don't think this will represent the genetic abnormalities either. I think this variety would be the genetic rule rather than the exception.

Sounds like the basis for a great Doctoral Thesis! Now you just have to find sombody willing to fund it!!  Hey, I know maybe Mike Ganus will put up the money...no on second thought, if everyone knew some sort of secret on how to spot a racing pigeon champion he would be out of business!! 

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Here's from the "experts" mouth..........

http://www.racingpigeondigest.com/current/featured_article/


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The book by Bradley is an infomative book, also try PigeonElite.com. Rotondo on racing pigeons, is a fery good book, I just can't destroy a bird like he seems to do.


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

I also agree with you ohio


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks for the links. From my studies of evolution each animal evolves to fit a particular environment. That is why hawks have long tail to maneuver around trees for example. And that there are a lot of color variety to help animals hide from predators, etc. So I wondered what would a sprint pigeon evolve like into or even long distance bird. 

Interesting reading that racing pigeon digest is. It is close to science. Obviously it would not pass peer review because no experiments were done, but those champion people do have empirical evidence. That is why I want some scientific studies done to test those theories claimed by those champions. That way we have facts. I got the feeling that they are right. LOL!

With the Doctor's thesis stuff, I would love to read one. But doing experiment is expensive. I still remember us spending $100,000+ to do an experiment just to test the theory that a particular enzyme is the one that is causing seedlings to bend for the sun. LOL! It took 2 professors, 1 Phd candidate, 2 Ms candidate and myself just to tackle such simple question: what causes those seedlings to bend?

Science I am sure can help find a good champion birds, if not to increase the probability of selecting one. I understand Jos Thone already practiced artificial insemination to one of his winning bird.

In the end perhaps a winning bird possesses several characteristics that makes it a winning bird.


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

*Polygamous Breeding*

One of the things that Bradley La Verne talked about is Polygamous breeding....
I think it is a very interesting method

What do you guys think about Polygamous Breeding?\

post your comments here...


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

octavio3151992 said:


> One of the things that Bradley La Verne talked about is Polygamous breeding....
> I think it is a very interesting method
> 
> What do you guys think about Polygamous Breeding?\
> ...


Well I quote Brad when I say that Chic Brooks is the Best Poly Breeder I've ever seen. So here are three of his four ways to poly breed http://www.hapycolofts.com/lofts/news/poly_breeding.html

Overall if you can do it then you've got one more great tool in your box to beat your competition over the head with. I don't have the set up nor the time for such an activity, that and i don't force breed so personally perfecting poly breeding would be useless for myself. And what exactly what makes ONE pigeon so much better that it should be of such importance in the breeding loft? A race record means nothing in the breeding book, just fills up the pedigree. 

Still interested in your race record bud.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

RodSD said:


> I really want a scientific studies of winning pigeons. I haven't found one yet. Everyone have their own criteria of winning pigeons. Octavio's list is fine with me, but there is this possibility that it might not be enough. (Note: I don't race). We can't also exclude the fancier(trainer), luck, the weather, loft location ,etc. I honestly don't know whether one bird can fit in all race scenario.
> 
> I was watching several youtube videos about loft race and I noticed that a faster bird may not necessarily win because it didn't trap first. I suppose this thread will end up with a discussion of what makes a pigeon a winning pigeon.


 If there was such a study RodSD, how much would you be willing to pay for it ? Since, if you had the answers in your pocket, how much could a person make from such knowledge ? It would sort of be like going to a horse track, and being able to tell who the winner would be simply by looking at the horse !  Funny thing is, there are "Professional Graders" and Article writers and such, who claim this ability with racing pigeons. 

Let's just say, that I undertook a study myself, and spent hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions to conduct such a study, and now I am willing and able to "share" these "secrets" with the racing pigeon fanciers, for the cost of underwriting the study, and a small profit, so how much would you be willing to pay ?

Then consider that if such information was available for a price, once it was widely diseminated, it would cease to work, since the "edge" it would provide, would also be employed by every other fancier in time. 

Since race horses was brought up, let's just say, that you had the knowlege to understand which horse would be the winner, before the race was started, how much would such knowlege be worth ? How much could be made in just a single afternoon at a single Off Track Betting Parlor ? Now, of course we are discussing racing pigeons, but the pricipal is the same. So, how much would you pay for this knowledge ? My guess, is that neither you, or a thousand of your friends together, could afford to pay enough to buy such information. And let me say, with certain knowlege, that many millions have been spent, by some very wealthy people, for just such information, and yet, in some recent races, their birds were not able to beat mine in some One Loft events. 

My suggestion then, is not to seek some silver bullet, which will place you ahead of the flock. The answer is in your own back yard, and it's a very complex puzzle, which you, and you alone, will have to discover. Because no one is going to provide those answers, not at any price, if they had the answers.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> My point on the race horse analogy was to point out that among those birds that are already on the right side of your performance bell curve you will find, I believe, little similarity in their phenotypes. Their outward structures will all vary greatly. You will find similarities within families, but when comparing across the genetic and family lines on a national or international basis you will get the whole gamit of physical traits. I don't think this will represent the genetic abnormalities either. I think this variety would be the genetic rule rather than the exception.
> 
> Sounds like the basis for a great Doctoral Thesis! Now you just have to find sombody willing to fund it!! * Hey, I know maybe Mike Ganus will put up the money...no on second thought, if everyone knew some sort of secret on how to spot a racing pigeon champion he would be out of business!! *
> Dan


And Dan,

If after "Investing" millions in breeding stock, if he has really found the answer, he would be winning all the races he enters. As you know, in four different One Loft Events, in which our birds flew along side his, my birds outflew his. So the idea that a person can simply look at a bird and tell it's racing ability, has yet to be proven in my book. And the idea that a person can with a big check book, buy their way to the top, is also an idea which has not been proven. If that were true, then I think the results would be different....don't you think ?


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

Ha ha speaking of horses,
I heard that champion race horses are the one with bigger hearts(anatomically speaking).


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Warren,

When I mean scientific studies I don't necessarily mean just the physical look of the bird and say that is the champion bird ( I myself find that ridiculous). I mean rather to gather more data than that! Something that look fast doesn't necessarily mean that it can be fast.

There is a difference when commercial do studies compared to university studies. Commercial research tries to keep their findings secret (to protect their investment). University research is open to all. College researchers did studies on pigeons cognitive abilites, for example. Obviously they try to study the homing aspect of those as well. I was then searching for those that try to answer the question of what makes a winning pigeon a champion bird, but can't find any.

Some scientists may already have figured out the evolutionary significance of white rump on pigeons against predators. Apparently white rump helps confuse falcons during the attack. I like those kind of studies.

It would be (very) expensive to do research. It would take years. In my fantasy world I wish that fanciers with winning pigeons will try to figure out why their birds win and gather data. (Note: I don't have any winning pigeons because I am a backyard flier.) I've read the link on the racing digest. I would have like if they collected data and try to figure out or test their own personal claims. That way we have data. There is this possibility, however, that the data may not be shared because they can use them to their advantage. An impartial scientists obviously will probably share the results.

Maybe someday when I really get into pigeons I will try to collect my own data. And I might share it.


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## octavio3151992 (Nov 13, 2008)

*breeding:*

My father and I just finished building the place where we will breed our pigeons. so far, we've paired up about 12 pairs.
Anyone know what to feed your pigeon so that she becomes more fertile?????????????????????????????????


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

octavio3151992 said:


> My father and I just finished building the place where we will breed our pigeons. so far, we've paired up about 12 pairs.
> Anyone know what to feed your pigeon so that she becomes more fertile?????????????????????????????????


I would just make sure she doesn't get too fat. I usually feed a high percentage of Barley to keep the weight down. Other than that, just make sure she gets all the vitamins and minerals she needs including plenty of Calcium.

Dan


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You should not have problem with fertility. Pigeons are prolific breeders. Just keep them healthy.


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## ARHAM (Jul 2, 2008)

hummm !


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