# how far out should YB be trained before racing



## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

Hello, i am a new racer and are club has decided not to race YB birds but yearling's and than old birds. My question is i only have mine trained out to 50 miles and the first race is 100 miles. The first race will be on Jan 31, Should they be o.k. if I can get them out to 70 miles before the race in Jan 31.


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## Bezz (Dec 12, 2008)

Hi 

2 or 3 times at 50 and ones at 70 would be sufficient.
How many tosses did they have up to now?

Bezz


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*4 cardinal points...*

From what I read in some site, you have to train all young birds not more than 90 miles...Now if you can go father than 90 miles and you're sure that your young birds will get home safe, I say go over 90 miles...I don't think you will be cheating if you can go to the distance farther than the 1st miles race...
If I will join the race this is what I will do...I'll go (4 cardinal points) 90mi.North, 90mi. South, 90mi. East & 90mi. West...I might have the advantage of winning...It's like human when driving, the 1st time you go somewhere you don't know you might either get lost or get out off-course/route but but the more you go there and find the easy road or short-cuts then you can get to that destination a lot faster, I think that makes sense...


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## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

I have trained the birds very slow but often. I would only go like a mile or two at time the birds have 1000 s of air miles. Last month they had put in over 500 miles. I am having hawk problems so the birds are even getting more of a workout after they come home from the training flights. Some times 2-4 hours long.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

50 mile training toss is plenty in our book. We did not train over 30 miles the entire season of 2008 and had an excellent year. The training toss is not designed to show them the route to get home so much as it is to get them in shape. From your post it sounds like your birds are in plenty good shape.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

whitesnmore said:


> 50 mile training toss is plenty in our book. We did not train over 30 miles the entire season of 2008 and had an excellent year. The training toss is not designed to show them the route to get home so much as it is to get them in shape. From your post it sounds like your birds are in plenty good shape.


I to had a great season and my birds farthest toss was 50 miles. Just train them don't burn them out.

Ace


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*The first year that I flew I had my birds trained out to about 45 miles these were all late hatches that I did not race in young birds. I do not like young bird racing as I feel that its asking a baby to do a mans job. We In the combine that I was flying in have a traing truck before old birds that we get 30, 60, and 100 mile toss before the first race I put my birds on the truck for those tosses so that they would learn being released with a larger group of birds. I feel that you need to give your birds (1) 70 mile toss 2 weeks before the race season starts and (1) 50 mile toss. Do not give them a toss the week before the first race. loft fly early that week and 2 days before shipping stop loft flying You will get other advice from others some good some bad its ur to you to make the right move.* GEORGE


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Not to confuse the issue, but I only trained mine to 25 miles before the first race. In fact, I never trained past 25 miles last year. Now, I went there many times but no further. Like Ace said, you want to train them, not kill them. This is yet another issue that will have a million and one views. Some swear that they need to train out to the first station before the first race. That has not been my experience. 

I for one, can't afford all those miles on the car, even with gas prices coming down! I am looking for ways of keeping them in shape without extensive road training. Might work, might not, but I am going to give it a try.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Not to confuse the issue, but I only trained mine to 25 miles before the first race. In fact, I never trained past 25 miles last year. Now, I went there many times but no further. Like Ace said, you want to train them, not kill them. This is yet another issue that will have a million and one views. Some swear that they need to train out to the first station before the first race. That has not been my experience.
> 
> I for one, can't afford all those miles on the car, even with gas prices coming down! *I am looking for ways of keeping them in shape without extensive road training. *Might work, might not, but I am going to give it a try.
> 
> Dan


That's the key IMO...(yea, another one..LOL)...we DO NOT teach these birds how to come home. They are born with or without the know how.......if they can come home because they KNOW HOW to come home, then the only reason they wouldn't make it is because they are not in shape to do the distance or a predator attack or wire or any number of things that you have no controll over. 
And, Southwing......if your birds are flying the training AND doing another 2 to 4 hours AFTER getting home..........you'll WILL burn them out in no time. I'd take it easy.


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## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

I will cut back just on weekends and see how the first race goes. I'm excited but hope i have done my job in training them. Thanks


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

I train to the first race station which in my case is one hundred miles...You should also train them to break from the flock by taking them to the loft of another flyer and release while the other flyer has his birds flying around his loft....Birds that do not break and go home get short rations when they do come home...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Southwing said:


> Hello, i am a new racer and are club has decided not to race YB birds but yearling's and than old birds. My question is i only have mine trained out to 50 miles and the first race is 100 miles. The first race will be on Jan 31, Should they be o.k. if I can get them out to 70 miles before the race in Jan 31.


Like some other posts pointed out, there will be many different ideas on the subject. I suspect for any number of reasons, that I may never be a great flier in my Combine due to time, location of my loft, and the fact that I must squeeze 12 months of work into about eight months of the year, and YB racing is during those eight months. And any other excuse I can think of in the future. So, having said that, my thoughts on the subject should be taken with a grain of salt. 

That, and my loft manger/partner has convinced me that our goal is to breed One Loft race winners, and as such, we really don't want to provide an environment which would be better then most One Loft events, in order to refine our breeding program. By that, I mean we are looking for superior genetics, not superior training and management. We want to win locally based on the quality of our breeding and not because we provided the best management and training. 

Having said all that, if I was retired, and time and money was no object, perhaps I would like to train a few times from the 1st race station, and if that is good for them, why not the 2nd race station as well ? All that would be required is some early breeding. And have them down the road many weeks before the 1st race, which for us would be the last Saturday in August. 

For the record, my original mentor who was a WWII Pigeon Corps Vet...he always told me, that a homing pigeon did not need to be "trained" to find home. And there is an older gentlemen in poor health in our Combine, who manages to make it into the top 10% or so, and never trains at all. His bird's first experience with a training basket, is on the night of shipping. So, maybe all this "training" is just to make us feel better ? I have not found that an extra twenty training tosses, will make any difference, so when the alarm goes off, I just as soon roll over and go back to sleep....you go train all you want.....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> For the record, my original mentor who was a WWII Pigeon Corps Vet...he always told me, that a homing pigeon did not need to be "trained" to find home. And there is an older gentlemen in poor health in our Combine, who manages to make it into the top 10% or so, and never trains at all. His bird's first experience with a training basket, is on the night of shipping. So, maybe all this "training" is just to make us feel better ? I have not found that an extra twenty training tosses, will make any difference, so when the alarm goes off, I just as soon roll over and go back to sleep....you go train all you want.....



Warren, I agree with you, however, in order to NOT train, your birds must get in shape somehow and that doesn't happen by sitting around inside the loft and flying an hour every day. I know people who turn thier birds out and they take off and stay gone for 2 hours at least..........my birds do not route. Never have and I guess never will. I believe it's our location, not the birds. When we lived in MI in the middle of a field where you could see in all directions for miles and miles, my birds DID route......they would stay gone as long as 4 hours. That doesn't happen here. Another thing that should be considered is how far your first race is. If it's only 75 miles, then IMO, not much training is needed....not distance wise anyway. If your first race is like mine and it's 178 miles.....then, in order for the birds to fly that distance in any sort of "good time", they HAVE to have time on the wing. If that means turning them out and letting them fly for 2 or 3 hours (if they will), then that's good..........if it means you have to take them 60 miles just to get time on the wing......then that's what you have to do. 
I totally agree about them homing though. The training is NOT to teach them anything. Until we sprout wings and can fly with them, we're not teaching them one darn thing.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Char-B Loft said:


> I train to the first race station which in my case is one hundred miles...You should also train them to break from the flock by taking them to the loft of another flyer and release while the other flyer has his birds flying around his loft....Birds that do not break and go home get short rations when they do come home...


*If you turned your birds loose while my birds were loft flying I am sure we would have words and maybe worse then just words. Did you ever consider that maybe the birds that were loft flying might be young birds that your birds might drag away from their loft and get lost,doing what you do is UNSPORTMAN like.* GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Warren, I agree with you, however, in order to NOT train, your birds must get in shape somehow and that doesn't happen by sitting around inside the loft and flying an hour every day. I know people who turn thier birds out and they take off and stay gone for 2 hours at least..........my birds do not route. Never have and I guess never will. I believe it's our location, not the birds. When we lived in MI in the middle of a field where you could see in all directions for miles and miles, my birds DID route......they would stay gone as long as 4 hours. That doesn't happen here. Another thing that should be considered is how far your first race is. If it's only 75 miles, then IMO, not much training is needed....not distance wise anyway. If your first race is like mine and it's 178 miles.....then, in order for the birds to fly that distance in any sort of "good time", they HAVE to have time on the wing. If that means turning them out and letting them fly for 2 or 3 hours (if they will), then that's good..........if it means you have to take them 60 miles just to get time on the wing......then that's what you have to do.
> I totally agree about them homing though. The training is NOT to teach them anything. Until we sprout wings and can fly with them, we're not teaching them one darn thing.


Oh...well the 2nd part of what my mentor said....sometimes the second part get's forgotten...."If they are flying well around the loft".....there is also a theory that a colony which is subjected to very hard road traing, will over time, develope into a strain of birds which will always require a lot of road training. 

I have been sucessful in being able to get my YB's to fly for long periods of time around the loft, without flag flying. There is some discussion with my partner and I, as to what is worth more in terms of conditioning....a 55 mile training toss, which requires a little over an hour, or twice that amount of time flying around the loft ? 

I also have developed a few tools or "tricks" to encourage more free flying, and I mean "free" flying and not some form of forced loft flying. Including the use of a 2nd breed which I have developed over the years, which are released with my YB's. I have managed to convince myself, that if they are loft free flying for the amount of the time required to return home from our first race station of 133 miles, then a whole lot of road training may not only be unecessary, but counterproductive. But, for the record, they do get about 10 tosses or so at 55 miles, directly on the line of flight. 

But, you are correct, if after 3/4 of an hour, your birds are sitting instead of flying, you may have no choice, except to load the birds up and take them down the road.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

george simon said:


> *If you turned your birds loose while my birds were loft flying I am sure we would have words and maybe worse then just words. Did you ever consider that maybe the birds that were loft flying might be young birds that your birds might drag away from their loft and get lost,doing what you do is UNSPORTMAN like.* GEORGE


I guess I should have said when I did this...I do this when the other flyers are at the same stage of training I am. The other flyer brings his birds to my loft also...

You need to train the birds to break from the flock and this is the only way I know how to do it...

I will tell my racing partner that you think this training is UNSPORTMAN like and see if he wants to stop what we have been doing for years...


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi CHAR-B LOFT, I am glad that you are doing this with a friend that knows what is happening.I would suggest that the two of you take your birds out about 30 miles and release them.When I was still racing I and two others in my club would do this. The way that you are doing it your birds or his may go to the other guys loft before coming home. WHile the way that we were doing it the birds would brake away from the other guys group long before getting to your or his loft.Give it a try it may work better for you.One thing you should both have about the same number of birds in the release,this way neither group is stronger thus they they will have an equial chanch of braking from the group. * GEORGE


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

george simon said:


> *Hi CHAR-B LOFT, I am glad that you are doing this with a friend that knows what is happening.I would suggest that the two of you take your birds out about 30 miles and release them.When I was still racing I and two others in my club would do this. The way that you are doing it your birds or his may go to the other guys loft before coming home. WHile the way that we were doing it the birds would brake away from the other guys group long before getting to your or his loft.Give it a try it may work better for you.One thing you should both have about the same number of birds in the release,this way neither group is stronger thus they they will have an equial chanch of braking from the group. * GEORGE


Thanks George, We do this also and have done very good in the races...


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

Before training always.
With youngster..
Go N.S.E.W.AT LEAST 5 MILE.
FROM EVERY ANGLE..
TRY NOT TO LET GO YOUR YOUNGS..
FROM THE SAME PLACE.
SO THEY COULD LEARN EARLY IN THEIR
LIFE TIME..TO HUNT FOR HOME..
SHOW THEM THE EARLY MOUNING SUN..
AN AFTERNOON. AN SUNDOWN.
SO 
THEY COULD LEARN THE ANGLE OF THE SUN..
THIS IS DONE.
WHEN TRAINING..
THEN THE ROUTE..
OF YOUR RACE..
19.MILE.WORK YOUR WAY UP..
IT BE MORE EASY..
GOING STRAIGHT HOME..
YOU WOULDNT.LOSE MUCH BIRDS..
THANK ME LATER....
LTM LOFT..


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, train your birds on the line of flight dont take your birds n e s w always let your birds go from the same place dont make them hunt for home you want your birds to come stright home you want races not tourist, you know 80%of your suggestions are no good if somebody took your advice they will never win a pigeon race.


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

Training young pigeon straight in line.
Within the route of the race is the easier way.
For your bird. But it don't show .
Your bird everything.
And yet you lose birds.
It needs to know.how to navigate.
When thing get hard.
Especially winds.
Headwinds.the angle of the sun..
The rays and terain..
Believe me.
Nsew early Training.
Show them how to look for home..
Then the easy route.
Go straight..


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, training your birds on the line of flight is the only way to train birds,once your pigeon goes off course you already lost the race, so your bird bird knows 5 miles in each direction so he will fly e w or south he is still going off course, all that B.S about rays and terain angle of the sun you are giving bad info about racing pigeons, how many pigeon races have you won????????????????????


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

Everybody got their ways..
But going straight in route. 
Is just to easy...
If you don't show your birds..
How to NAVIGATE. 
WHEN IT GET DISTRACTED BYE HAWKS..
IT WILL GET LOST. 
GET HOME LATE..
PIGEON WILL DO EVERYTHING 
FOR ITS SURVIVAL..
AND WITH HEAD WINDS..
YIY BE THE PREY..
AN WAIT TI CLOCK..
N,S,E,W,EARLY IN TRAINING..
SHOW YOUR BIRDS..
AND LEARN..THAT THERE REALLY 
AINT NO STRAIGHT LINE.
HOME..


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

how many pigeon races have you won with your system???????? and how old are you 12 13


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

Is not important how many
club RACE
I WON..
IS ALL ABOUT.
HOW TO GET THEM HOME..
60 years old..
And if you know how to train pigeon.more then a falcon trainning,, offspring 
Then am 12years old again..
Just leaning..
The easy route..
Line training..


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

Winds take bird out of race route.
Anyway.in a 350mile race.
For young birds..
Is all about smart an brave.
Birds anyway...
So no advice. 
Is bad..
Good luck..


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