# splay leg



## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I have a splay leg baby (5 weeks) given to me from our local rehabber. i took the pigeon to the vet but she said the prognosis on the splay leg was not good . She could not operate on it. I have her in carefree bedding. I have legs taped ( 2 inches apart0. if I don't do this the bad leg twists to the back. Any suggestions?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/a-terrible-problem-76342.html

This is the only experience on this situation that I can offer as help. My baby turned out really well and is flying and walking almost normal now. But I had to take it to the University Vet School to have surgery on it. With this particular case I hobbled the legs and my vet hobbled the legs and just could not turn it around. This was a bad case of splay so I opted out for a more expensive deal with a specialized bone vet and after many weeks (four pins were put in the bone) it turned out well. If you could share a picture of your baby maybe someone could help you figure out how to hobble the pigeon. This is the only information that I have for you. The second thread is when the baby was getting well after the surgery and pictures were on it. So there is hope but a expansive hope but maybe your baby has less of a problem and can be helped and it is now to do it for later it will be too late to fix. We need a picture from you..This is the second link coming up

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/the-oops-baby-76875.html


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Taping is good. Pls post a pic of taped legs as well as of before taping . 
Immediately start giving calcium +D3 , many times it happens because of calcium deficiency and as soon as they get it, they strengthen their legs to stand firm. 
You can buy calciboost or calcivet online and pls start giving him soon.
Also it happens because of lack of enough nesting material in nest but when legs get splayed, they need to be taped and supplement with calcium +D3. In worst cases they need surgeries as well as per c. hert's thread.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I tried so many different methods from taping the legs, using a foam splint etc.. the poor thing was miserable and would tumble with these things on. And yes, I brought her to the vet. the did not recommend surgery because it was bad. I was hoping and praying surgery would've been an option. mind you this vet is avain certified from Boston's top hospital. Needless to say, I was surprised by this. I still hand feed this youngster 20cc of kaytee and recover formula plus calcium. She does eat on her own a little.i bring her outside for sunshine too. I have carefresh in her cage plus i made a low shelf for her to perch. She is a sweet little thing and I feel I am tortuing her when i try these leg splints. I took the splints off and i am now hoping she will learn to stand and get around on her 'good leg".


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

the photo above is a photo of her wearing the tape splint.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I just finished c.hert's link about her splay leg baby. I am feeling sad because at least the vet tried to fix her leg. I guess at this point i am looking for advise not so much on how to correct it because it can't be fixed but rather how do you work with a handicap pigeon?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Her legs may very well be fixed, if taped correctly. Use band aids, and put one on one leg with the pad part around one leg, and the 2 sticky sides stuck together, making a tail, and pointing toward the other leg. Do this on the top part of the leg. Now do the same on the other leg, with the 2 sticky ends pointing toward the other leg, so that you can stick them to the tail you have made with the first band aid. Stick them so that the legs are in a natural position. But you don't have them pulled in enough. I did this with a splayed baby, but because I caught it at an earlier age, I was also able to tape the bottom half of the leg the same way. This did make a better result with the legs, and as she grew and began to walk, the legs were almost okay, so I kept the band aids taping the top of the legs so that she could get around. Your bird is older and wants to walk, so harder to now tape top and bottom, unless you suspend the bird so that she can't try to walk.
But taping the top half, with the band aids will be a sturdier tape to hold them where they need to be. They won't be perfect, as the foot will still point outward, without the bottom leg also being taped. But if you can get it right, it will help a lot. This could take a few weeks.

You don't want to leave her splayed. She will have not much quality of life. Retape the legs with the band aids, and pull them in where they should be. She needs calcium and vitamin D3. Without the D3, the calcium isn't doing her any good. There is a good chance that the legs can be fixed, but you are running out of time.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here's a link on how they taped a pigeons legs, and they were able to straighten them. You just need to get the taping right. Don't take the bandages off, or she will never be able to walk when she grows up. You don't want that. 
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

That link that Jay3 gave you should help and its very frustrating but keeping trying to hobble the leg but the pigeon needs exercise as well. I sure hope everything works out for you and your pigeon and these things take a long time so be patient. I would take the bandage off about every two days for just awhile so that the pigeon can weight bare on it and keep the muscles firm as well. You can gently exercise the legs too when they are off of the hobble. I am no expert but that.s what I would do to maintain the different muscles so that it is able to pull the right way. Disabled birds make very good pets and if this bird is disabled in the future we can tell you all about them. My particular case that you read had a bird that could not walk or fly and I only had two choices to give it a chance at life.Your pigeon is in a much better position because it can fly and will be able to walk..Chin up and do the best that you can with the information given. The Avian Vet who did the surgery on my bird was a Orthopedic bird surgeon and it was scary for the bird could have died in the surgery because of the sleeping medicine but "Oop's did fine..Good Luck to you sincerely..


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Her leg doesnt look that bad at all in those hobbles, I have a hen that is WAY worse, I mean a totall cockeye twisted leg and she uses it just fine to limp around, you will be surpriesd, I would leave the hobbles on for 14 days and then attempt to remove them and you can change them when they get messy or dirty, but at this young age, u may still see some imporvement, even if not perfect, as long as she can walk ad land, who cares


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't remove the bandage to exercise the leg as he will still be walking with only the top taped up. So in walking, he is exercising the leg. If you tape both top and bottom then he won't be able to walk. Just check to be sure it isn't too tight. 
The straighter you can get it, the better off the bird will be. If it is quite splayed it will slip out from under him on different surfaces. And why not try to give him the best he can be. The more splayed it remains, the more trouble the bird will have as he gets older, and puts on some weight.
But for now, it needs to be pulled in more and put more into the right position for that leg, and with more sturdy material then what you have there. They are too loose.
Don't worry about him getting upset. In the end, it's for his own good. And you will be glad you did it.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Did the Avian vet or the rehab person share with you on how to tape it...Just wondering here.. I am such a worry wort I would have to take it off for about an hour every two days just to check out the nerves and blood supply and strength of the muscles and make sure there are no sores from the taping as well as making sure the pigeon can grasp with it's foot as you put the foot around your finger. That's just me but the other people here I am sure have much more experience with these things. I would definitely try to get the pigeon on a pigeon and dove mix with seeds as well as getting it to drink on its own. Just kind of try to entice it with a silver spoon and scattering seeds on a soft surface as well as wetting the outside of its beak with a dropper of water and getting it used to drinking. It;s young yet but give it a chance to play with the seeds and water. I am hoping for the best for you and I know it is a worrying affair for you for you really like the little thing...Once again my thoughts are with you. I am wondering if the vet said any thing about its hip movement making it flare out because the picture is not a very good one but at least it is a picture..Does it flare from the top part of the thigh and follows down and then flares out the leg and foot area? With my pigeon I tried to make little shoes that were a failure and different techniques as well as bringing it to my regular avian vet to put hobbles on it and nothing worked so as a last resort I brought it to Colorado State Vet Hospital--exotic division. I really feel for you...Keep plugging..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

C.hert, I tried different ways of taping the legs until I hit on the way that worked. Finding it early helped a lot, as he was about a week or so old. He was still sitting in the nest which helped. But the parents would pull off the tape. I finally had to cover the band aids with duct tape to keep them from being able to do that. Also, as he grew, he would try to move from the nest and so would fall on his face, and then the legs would both go backward together. So then I had to stop him from getting out of the nest. I made a donut with the wide foam rubber strips that you can buy for air conditioners and made a deep donut that he would fit into. I put this in the nest box, filled the nest box with a lot of straw so that I could cover it up with the straw, and he sat in the donut, but as the straw was piled up to and over the donut, he looked like he was on the same level, so he stopped trying to get out of the donut. And because his parents couldn't see the covered up donut, it didn't put them off either, so they continued to feed him. It took a while to correct, and eventually he wanted to get up and walk anyway, so again he started struggling to get out. At that point, his legs were better, but not quite there and still needed taping. I knew he was going to fight not being able to walk, and I thought that along with the calcium and vitamin D3 he was getting, that his walking and using the legs would be better than just sitting. Figured he would help to strengthen them by walking around. So I took out the donut, and left the tape off of the bottom part of his legs so that he could walk a bit, although hobbled. I kept the top part of the legs taped where they should be. The problem with that was the foot still wanted to turn out just a little bit, but in weighing my options, I thought that the exercise he got from walking was more important than the slight turn of the foot. You kind of have to tweak things as you go along, depending on what you run into. Every situation is a bit different. Today he is a fiesty little male, thank God, who runs all over the loft and has a mate. The foot doesn't turn out so much now, but on occasion it will, but is not a problem.
I didn't have to take it off to check on the blood supply, as it was a band aid, with the pad part on his leg, so I could see that it wasn't too tight. And I could still test his grasping with the band aids on. I would remove it probably every 5 days or so just to see if the legs were coming together or what. Then would tape them up again. Or if they got soiled and had to be changed.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Never got pics when he was splayed badly, but the right leg went straight out to the side and back a little. Here he is when almost there, but not quite.









Here he is now. Those feathered feet didn't make it any easier to tape, as he still had them coming in when we started the whole processs. LOL.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

How cute.. I have a bird that my mookee and feral had and this was a Oop's baby too so there was only one pigeon. Had plenty of nesting but with one pigeon there is no another one to keep it in good place. Well anyway it went exactly how you described and he was about five days old and wanted to keep him with the parents because of the pigeon milk. I made donuts too high and low and taping every few days and checking 24 hours a day. lol lol..He did just fine and came out like your birdie and he is healthy today.. That's the only experience that I had except for this latest one and what a trip that was..don't ever want to repeat that if I can avoid it. I find the danger is with a single egg birth as well as improper and not enough nesting because of the slippy plastic bowls that they sell as nesting bowls. Calcium with vitamin D is good and I just mix it in their water and buy it from Foys. I love tobacco stems as well. Pigeons are harder to raise and care for then what people think because there is a lot to attend to and you know all of this....ugh....Your birdie is beautiful...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He was also an oops baby, and the only one. I don't use nesting bowls for most of them, but they did have planty of straw which they made a nest with. But when I checked the baby, and found the splay, somehow, there was a good nest he was in, but unfortunately when lifted out of the nest I noticed that there was no straw under him, it was all around him and he was sitting on the wooden floor of the nest box. You couldn't see that in just looking, so now I check under any babies to make sure there is enough straw, but we really try not to breed. Lesson learned.
Glad you were able to fix your splay. Catching it early does help a lot.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This is a pigeon who is about ten years old and her name is Gimie and the Blackie is her mate. She outlived her first mate. As you see her foot goes straight back and she has made an excellent pet and just needs soft surfaces to land on. You ask about pets but please try to wrap that foot again like Jay 3 said and if you wish to spend money take the pigeon to a Avian Orthopedic bone surgeon doctor. The next picture is of the Oop's baby who made it through the surgery. In the picture with him taking a step he is prancing up and down to attract a female..Pictures coming..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)




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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This is a picture of The Oop"s Baby who had the surgery in the link. There are two pictures and in the second one he is prancing around up and down to attract a mate.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thing is you can't usually put a splay leg bird who can't walk in with the other birds, and living in a cage is not the best thing for a bird.
The one who had the surgery turned out pretty well, didn't he?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Beyond my expectations. Yea you can add them to a loft but it is best to put them in with female birds and a few males that are also disabled. For the first couple of days one needs to watch them really careful. I would love to put Catnip in the female loft but her problem is she needs a certain container for drinking but I have a regular bird plastic drinking container in her large cage so that she can get used to it. I put her out with them two times and she did actually fine. She has a temperment like Gimie and if any bird gives her stuff she will fly right on top of their back and they will never bother her again. Gimie and Catnip are heavy birdies. lol lol..Now Pablo with only one wing did not thrive in the male section so I transferred him to the female section and " he is thriving and loving iife" and since he is a ground dweller bugs all new arrivals but eventually "if they are female" becomes good friends. lol It just depends on the injury and the environmental conditions on how they will live, Catnip will remain in the house for the winter and next spring I will try again. She has nerve damage in the neck ,,, but boy can she eat and is very spoiled my television buddy especially at news time and dinner. lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I do have one winged birds in my loft and they do fine. They are not ground dwellers as they have ramps and excess to the aviary and all. They get around. And they are no slouches so don't get picked on.
But a splayed leg bird wouldn't make it in with my males. Couldn't stand or walk right and would get picked on.
I don't have all the separate sections that you have to be able to put them in with different birds. That would be nice if you have the room. Actually, that would be wonderful. Would solve a lot of problems that arise.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I tried something new and it seems (so far) working. I took two ladies foam hair rollers as leg case and then tped the legs together. I wash and massage her feet daily. She doesn't like it but at least she can stand and she can even perch a little. So I am feeling hopeful


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's better but can you pull it in more where it turns out? Just remember that it will turn out more when not taped. Something more solid like the bad aids would hold it in place better.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Good Job... I sure hope it works...Good Job..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I think taping can work with this baby but go by Jay's advice, it should be pulled more towards inside. 
Have you started Calcium +D3 yet, without strong bones, it will be hard for him to stand straight. 
C. hert, Oops baby is looking completely normal now. That's great. 
Jay, Beautiful baby and did very well with taping.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks Kiddy. Didn't get it right at first. Took a few times of trying to see what worked. I think the poor little thing hated to see me coming. LOL. Surprised he isn't afraid of me, but he isn't. So much personality.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, they never like to be treated, seems like they are being oppressed. Lol. But I am so glad to see him fine. What is his name?
Is he the same you named Scooter? Lol. I think he was someone else?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's Boots. Scooter was older and the splay was very set and bones were hard when we got him. Couldn't tape the legs together, as they had hardened as they were. The leg going out and back would just pull the other leg back. Had hardened stiff. That's why it's important to get it as early on as you can. Much easier to fix at that point.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hmm.. You are right.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

yes i give her calcium from the vet plus i sprinkle some in her food. I took her splints off today and her leg didn't swing back. i took them off to wash and massage her legs. She can grip with the bad leg. She will fly around and land on her perch. She is doing so much better.
I still tube feed her but i don't think it is necessary. She will eat on her won so long as i am there with the food dish tapping it. I will probably take her to my regualr vet to see what she has to say. i am feeling hopeful


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wrap them again. It is too soon to take off the tape. The legs weren't positioned normally enough yet anyway. The more time you are willing to put into it, the better the results, and the better life the bird will have. It's worth the time. Your regular vet doesn't know enough about birds or splays.
It has only been one week. Surely the bird is worth more than that.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I only take her splints off every couple of daysONLY for a total of 3 minutes just enough time to wash her legs, massage the legs and change her bandages.Yes, i do beleive you are correct about leaving them on. She is doing so much better and adjusting to them.I exercise her a few times a day to get her to fly and land. She is doing excellent. She is eating on her own so long I am there with her. She is gaining weight so i think it may be safe not to have to tube feed her now.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Your mind is on the care of this bird and really trying to help it . I can fully understand. Do like Jay3 says and put the bandage back on and make it tighter a bit. I know that you only take it off to massage and check the legs out and I would do the same thing. Sometimes when we are unsure and feel insecure about helping the birdie because you are aware that you need to do it now and not later to be able to help this bird walk you need a professional second opinion just to assure you that something can be done or not and this helps to guide you with your caring help. I have been there as well as other people on this site. The Boston Vet Hospital specializes in dogs and cats and you need to take it to a Avian surgeon who specializes in birds and look on the net to see if there are any in your area. Call them up first and lay out the problem and see if any of their Avian orthopedic people can help you--write a letter to them and ask if they think they can help you with this pigeon...Ask how much a consult fee is and have the vet call you back at your request---bug them and stay at this and see what happens.. Write a concise letter and see what the response is on that before you spend any money.. In the meanwhile put the bandage back on the bird after you take it off for a few minutes to check and tighten the bandage and get that bird to eat mixed seed better for it needs to be able to eat on its own and not tube fed....Thinking of you and your doing a real good job and just stay at it....sincerely...c,hert


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

i stopped tube feeding her. She does eat a mix of pigeon seeds and harrison pellets now. She will not eat in her cage but on top of the age. So I take her out to exercise a couple of times a day and let her eat and drink as well.She seems to be progressing and is starting to be a good flyer (and lands pretty good too!)
As far as her legs, I am going to seek a second opinion. When I was caring for my beakless pigeon I had the top avian surgeon in Boston take care of her but unfortunately she had retired.I had a new avian surgeon look at this splay leg baby but she said surgery in this case was too risky and the prognosis was poor.Regardless, I will have my regular avian vet take a look at her she may make other suggestions.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sounds wonderful to me...That flying exercise will help her leg if you have that bandage pulled in a little bit better like Jay 3 wrote and I just know that you do..Thanks for the update forum mate..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The tape is still loose and not stiff, which allows her to pull the leg back. The Bandaids make it stiffer to keep them together more. Even putting duct tape over the tape that you have would stiffen it up.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I tighten up the legs a bit but she falls backward. I am trying to find that fine line where she can balance and that the bad leg doesn't pull away. She is very good at flying and landing. Next week she has a second opinion follow up appointment with my vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your vet isn't an avian vet.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I wanted to give you the latest update on trixie. i brought her to my regular bird vet and she said she was amazed at how her legs looked with the splints. trixie is walking forward now and getting around. i have another appointment next week for an xray. She is flying around, landing with no problems and hobbling around.so far so good. i am hopeful.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How far are they splayed at this point? If they are still badly spaced apart, then they will get worse as she grows to adult and gets heavier, and doesn't get as much exercise as a healthy pigeon. Eventually she won't be able to get around.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I've trying to post the latest photo of trixie but the download keeps failing for some reason. Anyways, her legs are close together as instructed by my vet. She can walk and fly and land like a normal pigeon


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't know what you mean by "as instructed by my vet"


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

the vet instructed me to (try) to turn and splint legs closer together.Each time i change the splints i bring the legs in closer. this seems to have worked because she can walk forward. i tried again to upload a different photo and unfortunately that failed as well.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Pigeon talk is currently facing problems with pics upload as you see notice on the page. Till the issue is resolved, you can use third party sites like imgur.com etc. to upload the pics and paste a link here.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Are they in a normal position, or going out to the side?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

the legs are close but the bad leg (foot) is not in a perfect position it is a bit angled to the side a bit. I've adjusted the legs the best i can do but that one foot is not pointing perfectly striaght. it's can't go straight no matter what (unless it is operated on). She can walk forward. the leg looks good wtih no swelling or anything. She has an appointment for an X-ray next week


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*splay leg/swollen foot*

So far everything had been going well with trixie until this morning. i took her splints off to clean/massage and change and noticed her good foot was swollen and warm. i took the splints off, washed and massaged her foot and gently reapplied her splints. I think it might have been too tight. i also put a cold compress on it for a few minutes as well. i'll take it off again later today to massage ect... i'm worried though...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The legs need to be checked daily to make sure they are not too tight. Don't know what you are wrapping them with now.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

the legs are wrapped in foam rollers with paper tape but i beleive it was the pipe cleaners that might have been too tight holding the legs to gether. so now I'm removing them, washing and massaging the legs and checking that it isn't too tight.twice a day however it is still swollen I do have a vet appointment on tuesday


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I won't stress more to a swollen leg until it heals. That's the only leg he has as of now. So be careful while you wrap or give him some time to heal. 
Ask the vet about it also.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Keep us posted on this. Did he have any sores from the wrappings on his legs and could one of those get infected. Maybe he twisted it some strange way and hurt something temporary ---these birdies are a worry indeed. Let us know what your vet says and for the hell of it ask him if you could put some cold on it --- I don't know if this is good but next time I see my vet I will ask him if this would help with the circulation if I do not keep it on very long...Keep us posted...I would try it for about 3 minutes if I were to try it so ask your vet first for it might make matters worse---Just throwing out ideas here. Sure hopes the swollen leg improves...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Cold doesn't help circulation. It slows it. To improve circulation you warm something.


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