# Proved the "Pigeon Experts" wrong!



## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

-PigeonTalk-

MANY pigeon experts have told me that it is impossible to rehome a pigeon that is older than 6 months. Many "Experts" on yahoo & Ehow have said the same thing but i've proved them wrong a couple of times, I was successful at rehoming a pigeon that lived about 2-5 minutes away from here and this pigeon was older than 6 months. I only kept her prisoned for 1 week and 5 days and she came back 2 hours later and I was even successful at rehoming 4 adult pigeons and 1 baby pigeon that did not hatch here. I released each one of them at a different time and they all came back.  

I've never ever failed at rehoming a pigeon whether it was a baby or an adult, Am i doing something extraordinary with these pigeons?  

If my tips are helping people rehome their pigeons, I can't see why breeders fail at rehoming theirs?


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

Pigeons are rehomed all the time.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I've done it with one, what do you do? It can be a risk and people may pay good money for birds. Do you know for a fact that any of the birds you rehomed were ever flown or trained. If they were never allowed out the chances of them being rehomed or much greater


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

what breed of pigeon..?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Well it was put in the homing section so I thought we were all talking about homers.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Paki Tipplers said:


> Well it was put in the homing section so I thought we were all talking about homers.


yeah... homing pigeons doesn't always mean racers... some people think as long as a pigeon can be let free flying and return home, it's a homer...


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I don't think anyone thinks that. If you let a bird out and it stay at your loft then it settled. If that bird is a homing pigeon then you have a settled homing pigeon. For homers, if they have never flown then it would be easier. If they have been flown and out to some distance then it's bad homer if it only took a week to settle like that. If they are only 5 mins away and had been trained at all, even just ranged around it would have most likely went back to the old loft.


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## pidgey boy (Dec 23, 2010)

good job, i also have rehomed pigeons that are over 6 months but good luck on this bird


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Paki Tipplers said:


> I don't think anyone thinks that. If you let a bird out and it stay at your loft then it settled. If that bird is a homing pigeon then you have a settled homing pigeon. For homers, if they have never flown then it would be easier. If they have been flown and out to some distance then it's bad homer if it only took a week to settle like that. If they are only 5 mins away and had been trained at all, even just ranged around it would have most likely went back to the old loft.


must be lost in translation.... but that is what I was saying in my prev post....


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> If my tips are helping people rehome their pigeons, I can't see why breeders fail at rehoming theirs?


good for you...now you are an expert...oh, by the way, experts are wrong many times!!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I do not think rehoming is impossible and neither would these 'experts" who ever they are. If you are in the racing hobbie though and you have birds that can be rehomed then they need to work on their breeding program..a good racing pigeon is very hard to rehome and that is the way it should be as that is what they are bred for. your average homer that is not from race stock should be easier esp if they only lived a few minutes down the road as you said..that bird probably thinks he is still home as it has not gone far..he probably has flown out farther than that just on a whim...lol.. The thing about rehoming is that it is iffy with good birds. and when someone who cares about their birds sells a pair they no longer want to breed and one day they come back then they know the person who they sold the birds too let them out which is not looked upon well as the birds saftey could be an issue if the home loft were very far away..farther than say a race. I know one racing hobbiest that sold a few birds only to have them return a year later after she sold them to someone who promised not to let them out.. she was not a happy camper and of course kept the birds and did not return them..it is just good etiquette not to release them. I think it does give an idea out there for perhaps someone to let their prisoners loose and that just is not a good idea in general, as allot of birds could be lost, but as always one does what they want to do with their own birds. I would feel like a fool if I let mine out and they would fly back to their loft of origin and Iam sure ,I would get a nasty phone call...lol.. other breeds of pigeons can be settled, it is just the racing homers and some/allot of regular stock homers that one needs to worry about.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Just my opinion
Sounds to me like Australia does not have "REAL" homing pigeons.
Have you tried to resettle a bird that has raced 1-2 seasons up to 300 miles?????
I must be in the WRONG bussiness.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

In the past I have resettled a whole young bird team that had been raced out 300 miles. 40 birds. that then yearlings I first let them raise young when the young were 2 weeks old I would let the cock bird out Then when it settled I released the hens These birds were all Janssen based birds 2 generations off imports From Jim davis if any of you remember him. So yes Good birds can and will resettle. But Not all birds will any time a personm trys to resettle a bird It may stay it may leave Having the old loft within a decent drive to pick it up if it returns back to the former loft is good Or else the bird is lost. It is still best to breed from the birds To have offspring. before a gamvle is taken. BUT glad you was able to get your bird homed to your loft. But not every bird wqill do that. I have lost birds I raised when I tried to rehome them to a new loft but different location.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

nzpouter said:


> yeah... homing pigeons doesn't always mean racers... some people think as long as a pigeon can be let free flying and return home, it's a homer...


Cool I have some rollers I let out to free fly, they roll and every thing but they must really be homers. lol
Dave


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## pluviru (Jul 14, 2011)

I've rehomed on 200 pigeons now and don't tell me I've not had a good pigeons. Possible nothing good from 200? I've rehomed pigeons that were 10 years old and I've said it many times on many posts but people remain to say it's Impossible. If you offer them a good place and they are in love with it, no matter the distance they came from they will remain in your loft. I will show you pictures tomorrow on a new thread with the pigeons I rehomed and pigeons I'm rehoming now


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I think the real test of a "re-homed" homer would be if you could take it out say 20-50 miles from its loft and it returns. 

I had some feral pigeons that I thought I had re-homed..They would loft fly, route for over 1/2 hr and come back, trap to the whistle when called and where tame enough to let me walk over and pick them up. 

I lost one of the ybs on a 3 mile toss and the other at 7 miles... Their hen was killed by a backyard hawk attack and their cock flew away when his "family" was gone. I know the guy who sold them to me told me they where "unbanded homers" but they had the homing skill of feral pigeons. 

Anyway maybe where not talking about the same thing. About how far out have these "rehomed" homing pigeons been released?


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## pluviru (Jul 14, 2011)

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I think the real test of a "re-homed" homer would be if you could take it out say 20-50 miles from its loft and it returns.
> 
> I had some feral pigeons that I thought I had re-homed..They would loft fly, route for over 1/2 hr and come back, trap to the whistle when called and where tame enough to let me walk over and pick them up.
> 
> ...


When I rehome them I give them a chance to settle good in the place. Then the first toss is 3 miles, then 7 miles and then 15 miles. When then I have training with the club they will go 60 miles and more


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I have prisoners and IMO..it would be irresponsible to even try it..for the birds sake and for the person who gave them to me.. not sure what is the reason to chance it..but to each their own.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I have prisoners and IMO..it would be irresponsible to even try it..for the birds sake and for the person who gave them to me.. not sure what is the reason to chance it..but to each their own.


My theory is keeping birds in a cage is like keeping fish in tank. If they can fly and return home then they should be given their freedom...we have to trust them to make it back but we gotta let them be what they where born to be.

Now having said that I have been gifted with "plenty" of older homers to use as breeders and they pretty much are retired in my Aviary. No need to fly for their lives being chased by cooper hawks and what not...but my 2010 birds and my late hatches are all going to get a chance to enjoy being free.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Not really a bid deal. We all have to "rehome" our birds to go into the old bird loft after YB season. Most good homers will go back home when let out, or when spooked by a hawk. I, too, have rehomed old homers, only to find them bee-lining back towards their old place after a couple consecutive hawk attacks. Never saw them again.
The point is, to prevent people from trying it. If you have a good bird, why risk letting it out to either 1) fly away, or 2) get killed by a predator. If I buy birds with the intention of breeding it, I'm going to keep it as safe as I can. Not only would losing it be a waste of money, but a waste of a good bird. Quite frankly, I don't see the point in trying to break an old bird. We all know it is possible to do, but it is extremely risky as you never know if it will stay or not. I personally would not try it with any birds older than a yearling.
I have a yearling in my loft right now that I bred and sent on the first young bird race last year. Showed up 7 months later in perfect condition. Someone tried to keep her but she wanted to come home. She was about 6 months old when I sent her on the race.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

JaxRacingLofts said:


> My theory is keeping birds in a cage is like keeping fish in tank. If they can fly and return home then they should be given their freedom...we have to trust them to make it back but we gotta let them be what they where born to be.
> 
> Now having said that I have been gifted with "plenty" of older homers to use as breeders and they pretty much are retired in my Aviary. No need to fly for their lives being chased by cooper hawks and what not...but my 2010 birds and my late hatches are all going to get a chance to enjoy being free.



Iam talking about rehoming prisoner birds.... not ybs trained. I fly my homers that were here at 30 to 40 days old and the ones that hatch here..not the older ones I was given and bought and flown at their home loft


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I have raced rehomed birds And won races with them. from 150 miles to 500 miles.. NOW the easyest way I ever rehomed homed any birds Was I got the birds plus the loft so all those birds never changed lofts. I had a bird once i rehomed tossed it at 175 miles FIRST toss it camew home I raced it most the time it would make it in to my loft every so often it would go to its old loft As I raced aginst its former owner. NEVER know about MR pigeon. But agin it is chance it stays or it leaves. I never tried to settle any of my breeder bird As I did not want to chance losing them.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Crazy Pete said:


> Cool I have some rollers I let out to free fly, they roll and every thing but they must really be homers. lol
> Dave


dude... over here anything that stays and fly around home is a homing pigeon...  .... but doesn't mean they're racing pigeons... we call our racing pigeons racers.. not homers.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

That's very strange, every single breed of pigeon can be let out and return home. That makes every pigeon a homing pigeon down there. What do you consider not a homing pigeon? He homing pigeon specially means a pigeon that was breed to be able to home from many miles away. Homers and racers are the same here.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> That's very strange, every single breed of pigeon can be let out and return home. That makes every pigeon a homing pigeon down there. What do you consider not a homing pigeon? He homing pigeon specially means a pigeon that was breed to be able to home from many miles away. Homers and racers are the same here.


don't ask me.. that's how it's always been... most here called white pigeons dove as well.... 
I always check when someone ring up and ask for homing pigeons... most chances are they want a couple of birds they can have walking/ flying around at home... not something they can toss 100ks away...


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

But every breed of pigeon there is can do that. Yes, many people call white homing pigeons doves here too.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> But every breed of pigeon there is can do that.


yeah.. I know  ... and I never said it makes sense... but try and explain that to a few non pigeon guy and it gets old pretty quick... be easier to ask what they want it for...

now if only OP return and put up some pics of the birds he rehomed.. and it'll all be sorted...


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## umaximus (Nov 12, 2010)

lgfout said:


> good for you...now you are an expert...oh, by the way, experts are wrong many times!!!


Hahaha, that's what I say. All of a sudden he think he knows. LOL
There's many things to learn. Plus there is not just one way but many ways to reach the end result.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

not all homing pigeons are racing pigeons, but all racing pigeons are homing pigeons by breed.the homing pigeon is a breed of pigeon..not just any pigeon that hangs around the house.. just about any breed will hang out around the loft if let out..the true breed of homing pigeon is the breed that was bred for good/better homing instinct.. I think allot of breeds even some fancy ones can have it in them..the homing pigeon is the one that was bred just for that so it is stronger in them....so because of that, that is the reason they are hard to resettle...even by the experienced...it is hit and miss... so why chance it?... still don't know..lol..


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I disagree, if i buy a 10 dollar pigeon, no pedigree, you probably call that a homing pigeon, but if you go win every race that year does it then become a racing pigeon? By definition can a homing pigeon be good at racing? Can a good homing pigeon be better than a bad racing pigeon?


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## pluviru (Jul 14, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> I disagree, if i buy a 10 dollar pigeon, no pedigree, you probably call that a homing pigeon, but if you go win every race that year does it then become a racing pigeon? By definition can a homing pigeon be good at racing? Can a good homing pigeon be better than a bad racing pigeon?


I've bought a pigeon for 1.75 euros. I said it was just a common pigeon but I liked her colour. But when I rehomed it, she told me the answer. A racing pigeon that I never had one like it before. In my opinion no matter if it races or not, if you train it well it would make a success.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> I disagree, if i buy a 10 dollar pigeon, no pedigree, you probably call that a homing pigeon, but if you go win every race that year does it then become a racing pigeon? By definition can a homing pigeon be good at racing? Can a good homing pigeon be better than a bad racing pigeon?


I have yet to see any other breed used for racing.. so your question is interesting. the pigeons that are bred for racing are homing pigeons..it is a breed of pigeon.. I do not think, lets say.. a jacobin pigeon..which is another breed of pigeon would ever home or be in a race...I really can not even think of a breed that you would even try to put in a race and not risk it's saftey.. it would be like getting a chihuahua to herd sheep.. as said all racing pigeons ARE homing pigeons..but not all homing pigeons are good or would be used to race with...it is just like athletes..for example.. me cycling against Lance Armstrong.. we are both human..but he is trained and in shape for what he does.. I did not get his talent by any means.. a racing pigeon is one that is put in a race.. and it would be a homing pigen breed of pigeon.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

I think most of us have had some success with rehoming pigeons if not all of us ,but i would say and it is only my opinion that you will lose far more than you would break in,as i found to my cost when i relocated 300 miles losing 75% of my birds.
I used most of the ideas suggested by these so called experts to no avail.
Birds that have been rehomed from only a couple of miles away should have the sense to return if not getting fed at a previous location.
AS sky tx suggested the hard part is rehoming birds that have raced from a distance although this is not impossible and even then you have to question that birds homing ability.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> -PigeonTalk-
> 
> MANY pigeon experts have told me that it is impossible to rehome a pigeon that is older than 6 months. Many "Experts" on yahoo & Ehow have said the same thing but i've proved them wrong a couple of times, I was successful at rehoming a pigeon that lived about 2-5 minutes away from here and this pigeon was older than 6 months. I only kept her prisoned for 1 week and 5 days and she came back 2 hours later and I was even successful at rehoming 4 adult pigeons and 1 baby pigeon that did not hatch here. I released each one of them at a different time and they all came back.
> 
> ...


 I guess it depends on what "experts" you may be talking about !  Most "experts" that I have come across would say that it is possible to "re home" a pigeon, but the percentages would be that a majority of well bred pigeons will not re-home. YB's even those over six months of age, are a lot more impressionable and can be re homed with more regularity then an adult pigeon which has been raced. What I have found is that often these "re homed" pigeons when entered into a race will in the fog of a race, return to the mother loft, even if they returned from training tosses to the "new" loft. 

Personally, right or wrong, I am inclined to think that "homing" pigeons which are easily "re-homed" may have a less of a homing instinct then those which can not be "re homed". In other words, I would place more stock in the bird which in spite of being held prisoner for a long period of time, which has raised young in the new loft, etc. etc. and in spite of this, still returns home to the mother loft. 

A new guy in our club had an incident where vandals turned out all of his stock, including some prisoners. The one bird returned home some 1400 miles away. In spite the fact it took the bird three weeks to return to the Mother Loft. To me, I would suspect that this particular bird is the kind of bird I would want in my breeding program....just call me crazy !!! 

What I would like to see, is some evidence that your birds which re-homed without a hitch, our also cabable of producing birds which will win some of those longer tough races. There may be some winners produced, but my money would be on birds such as this cock bird I mentioned, that traveled 1400 miles because of his love of home. And he wasn't going to allow a mate or young in the nest to stop his desire to return home when given the chance !


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I think you misunderstood. Im talking about a homing pigeon. As what we know what a homing pigeon is, your sayings racers are from homing pigeons, but they are not homing pigeons. My question was if you take a homing pigeon, off Craigslist for 10 dollars and this bird races better than a racing pigeon with a pedigree does it then become a racing pigeon. You said all racing pigeons are homing pigeons, but not all homing pigeons are racing pigeons. So if a pigeon races well its a racing pigeon? It it does bad its a homing pigeon? They seem to be the exact same to me. Its just that we have people who could care less how good there birds are and people who breed birds which sell from $150,000. So quality homers are racers, but poor quality are just homers? If thats the case it all depends on your wealth, A person who bought said $150,000 pigeon would probably call a $1,000 dollar bird a homer and not a racer.

EDIT: i can give you a picture of a homer and a picture of a racer and you wouldn't be able to tell which is which, they can be exactly the same when it comes to physical appearance, I never heard of any of the breeds of pigeons which can look exactly the same but yet be different.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> I think you misunderstood. Im talking about a homing pigeon. As what we know what a homing pigeon is, your sayings racers are from homing pigeons, but they are not homing pigeons. My question was if you take a homing pigeon, off Craigslist for 10 dollars and this bird races better than a racing pigeon with a pedigree does it then become a racing pigeon. You said all racing pigeons are homing pigeons, but not all homing pigeons are racing pigeons. So if a pigeon races well its a racing pigeon? It it does bad its a homing pigeon? They seem to be the exact same to me. Its just that we have people who could care less how good there birds are and people who breed birds which sell from $150,000. So quality homers are racers, but poor quality are just homers? If thats the case it all depends on your wealth, A person who bought said $150,000 pigeon would probably call a $1,000 dollar bird a homer and not a racer.
> 
> EDIT: i can give you a picture of a homer and a picture of a racer and you wouldn't be able to tell which is which, they can be exactly the same when it comes to physical appearance, I never heard of any of the breeds of pigeons which can look exactly the same but yet be different.


I would say if he is put in a race and comes back to his home loft he would then be called a racing pigeon, which is a homing pigeon by breed. or racing homer. also these birds that are raced then can or are bred..and those birds are homers from racing stock...and could be called a racing homer by blood as he is from racing stock.. like thoroughbred horses he is a race horse... IF he was bred to do that.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

I have to agree with your points.When i relocated all but one of my pigeon friends said i was crazy to take my 50 odd birds with me saying if they were anygood then you aint gonna see them again on release.This proved to be true with very few returning and with the ones returning i doubt they made a 600 mile round trip . iI didnt like the idea of culling them so gave them a chance .In hindsight i wasted alot of time and effort as well as money on these birds probably knowing what the outcome would be.
Would i do the same thing again?In view that im no longer racing maybe i would I dont really know.I often wonder whether i did the right thing and what became of the birds i kept prisoner for so long and what became of most.It just seemed at the time the right thing to do.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Very strange, So a pigeon can be a homer, and become a racer if he comes back to your loft? That what your saying? So why do it have to be in a race? If i can get a homing pigeon to home back from 50 miles, it sounds like its a homing pigeon. If a homing pigeon can home is it still a homing pigeon? I mean in some sense i hear what your saying. I wouldn't call it a whole different breed. What in physical appearance does a racing pigeon have or not have which sets it apart from a homer. I can give you 2 birds which look the same. The only way you could tell me which one is the racer is if i show you race results?


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## pluviru (Jul 14, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> it is just like athletes..for example.. me cycling against Lance Armstrong.. we are both human..but he is trained and in shape for what he does.. I did not get his talent by any means.. a racing pigeon is one that is put in a race.. and it would be a homing pigen breed of pigeon.


well if you train hard and follow his diet and keep attention you could make it... it's just how connfident are you in yourself... same on pigeons,, how confident are you with them you can hav a success!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Very strange, So a pigeon can be a homer, and become a racer if he comes back to your loft? That what your saying? So why do it have to be in a race? If i can get a homing pigeon to home back from 50 miles, it sounds like its a homing pigeon. If a homing pigeon can home is it still a homing pigeon? I mean in some sense i hear what your saying. I wouldn't call it a whole different breed. What in physical appearance does a racing pigeon have or not have which sets it apart from a homer. I can give you 2 birds which look the same. The only way you could tell me which one is the racer is if i show you race results?


thousands of years of breeding is what makes them a breed of pigeon.. have you looked at the thousands of breeds of pigeons out there...all bred for specific reasons.. the homing pigeon breed was used to race with one day so they were called racing homers... then breeding went from there to breed better and better racers for the sport of racing..the ones used are homing pigeons. there are no other breeds that can compete with them.. if you find one let us know because that bird of a different breed othere than a racing homer would be worth a million bucks...lol.. all pigeons have some homing quailities... if you have say a roller pigeon and it was let loose for some reason from someones house who bought it from you and it came back to you it still would be a roller pigeon.. just a roller pigeon that has good homing instincts.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Your not answering my question. *In physical appearance is there anything all racing pigeons have or do not have to set them apart from homers*


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Your not answering my question. *In physical appearance is there anything all racing pigeons have or do not have to set them apart from homers*


yes...one can identify the breed.. just like any other breed... like dogs.

perhaps instead me having to answer your questions you should look at some breeds online and see for yourself.. if your question is what do homing pigeons look like..google it and study their heads and bodies..esp around the cere or wattles..they tend to have no stop at the beak and larger wattles and a nice curved head..they look athletic and well muscled if they are in shape. then look up say a highflyer..and see the difference in the breeds. it can be hard to identify some perfromance breeds if your not familiar with them....like rollers and tumblers.. oriental roller have a distictive tail.. google image those and see what they look like.. and check out the tail.. they all have their own quailites.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

You are confused. I'm not talking about the difference between racing pigeon and all other breeds of pigeons. I'm asking about racing pigeons vs homing pigeons. You said they are not the same. I want to know how racing pigeons are physically different than homing pigeons


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> You are confused. I'm not talking about the difference between racing pigeon and all other breeds of pigeons. I'm asking about racing pigeons vs homing pigeons. You said they are not the same. I want to know how racing pigeons are physically different than homing pigeons


as already said a racing pigeon is a homing pigeon used for the sport of racing.

or

"Web definitions
A Racing Homer is a breed of pigeon that has been selectively bred for more speed, and enhanced homing instinct for the sport of Pigeon racing. A popular domestic pigeon breed.


all racing pigeons are homing pigeons.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Ok, so the question is back to what exactly is a racing pigeon? It very subjective in nature to say. "racing pigeons are fast at homing than homers"? Racing pigeons were bred from homing pigeons to race? Why could i say that homing pigeons were bred to home faster and longer distances? I do see the error in saying that.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Pigeonlover can tell you/explain the difference between Racers & Homers.
He is "NOW" the expert about pigons ---He "PROVED" other experts are"WRONG"


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Ok, so the question is back to what exactly is a racing pigeon? It very subjective in nature to say. "racing pigeons are fast at homing than homers"? Racing pigeons were bred from homing pigeons to race? Why could i say that homing pigeons were bred to home faster and longer distances? I do see the error in saying that.


well it is like this.. I have homing pigeons, some are from racing stock and some are not.. which ones would I put in a race. prolly the ones bred for the sport of racing..the others may not do as well as they were not selectivly bred to compete. so no they are not all the same..even in the racing pigeon sport there are always birds that would do poorley and some that do well at the sport. but..any homer can compete..Im sure they would be glad to take your money..lol..


and as far as the oringinal poster of this thread goes.. not sure if he even has homing pigeons..he did not say...lol.. I just assumed as he talked of rehoming.. or settling birds.. allot of performance breeds can be settled to a new loft. perhaps he has those or mixes..who knows. perhaps he can enlighten us..lol..


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Okay, so the term homing pigeons is subjective to the birds you have. That is what you said pretty much. So if someone has very good racers $10,000 birds, and someone gave him a $250 dollar bird. To that person the $250 bird is slow and of poor quality, therefore for him it is not a racing pigeon because he would never race with it. So two homing pigeons got together and made a racing pigeon? I think its really silly, homing pigeons and racing pigeons are the same. Just people have adopted to the name racer to any bird they subjectively feel is fast. Also, *why can't you say homing pigeons were bred to home faster and from longer distances?* I don't see a problem with that. This is so semantically ridiculous.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Right Spirit---He resettled-JUST- pigeons.
He did not resetttle"HOMING" pigeons that had been raised and raced to another loft.
If indeed he resettled birds--they were not Homing pigeons.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Pigeonlover can tell you/explain the difference between Racers & Homers.
> He is "NOW" the expert about pigons ---He "PROVED" other experts are"WRONG"


lol!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Homing pigeons and racing homers are the same thing. Racing homers have been selectively bred for good race results. Homers may come home just as fast from just as far, but until they start being raced, they are just homing pigeons.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

*I disagree, if i buy a 10 dollar pigeon, no pedigree, you probably call that a homing pigeon, but if you go win every race that year does it then become a racing pigeon? By definition can a homing pigeon be good at racing? Can a good homing pigeon be better than a bad racing pigeon?*


Yes. If it homes, it's a homer. If it races, it's a racing homer. Some birds bred out of two good racers can end up lost at 5 miles. Whereas some old guy who has breed homers for years just for fun, may be able to toss them 100 miles and they all come home. My dad used to raise homers and he'd take them to Florida with him (about 500 miles). They came home. He never raced them, and the birds they were bred from where just-for-fun-homers as well. But they had the potential to be racers. Every homing pigeon could be a racer. You just won't know until you train them out and race them. Some racers are more "homers" than they are anything. They come home, but not until the next day or so. Too slow.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I had both Racers & Homers.
The best Homer I had --I shipped it to ever Race.
It had over 4,000 offical Race miles on it when I stopped him.
He would take 2 days to home from accross the street---29 days from the 500 mile race.
YES--He was a Homer-NOT a Raceing Homer.
I shipped him for 6 years.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

And as for physical differences, there are none. Because they are one in the same  Just used for different purposes. Think of it like this. Quarter Horses. One person may have them just for pets, riding them around town or on trails. Other people race them. One is pedigreed, the other is not. But they are still the same breed. Put the non-pedigreed, pet horse in a race and it may become the next Seabuscuit. You never know until you try. Your pet horses could have the potential to be great racers, even better than the horses with fancy names on their pedigrees, but you have to test them to see how far their potential goes. 
Even if you find out your horse is horrible and has no chance in a race, it can still run. It can still do everything the racing Quarter Horses do, just not as well, because it hasn't been selectively bred for those things. It's family has just been a bunch of backyard pets.
So see, the only thing that separates a racing homer from a homing pigeon, is it's purpose. Whether it can handle racing, or not. Pedigrees make absolutely no difference. It's up to the individual bird. Even if it was bred out of two racing homers, to me, it won't be a true racer until it proves itself, either in the breeding loft or on the race sheet. Just like when people sell "rare colored racing pigeons" when they haven't even been tested. Some of them haven't had any of their ancestors tested. Others may be able to home, but have never been raced to see if they are capable. Therefore, I call those birds rare colored homers.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

sky tx said:


> I had both Racers & Homers.
> The best Homer I had --I shipped it to ever Race.
> It had over 4,000 offical Race miles on it when I stopped him.
> He would take 2 days to home from accross the street---29 days from the 500 mile race.
> ...


Sounds like a great bird  I would much rather have that bird than a one-hit-wonder. At least yours was consistent! That's a good start to build on.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Okay, so the term homing pigeons is subjective to the birds you have. That is what you said pretty much. So if someone has very good racers $10,000 birds, and someone gave him a $250 dollar bird. To that person the $250 bird is slow and of poor quality, therefore for him it is not a racing pigeon because he would never race with it. So two homing pigeons got together and made a racing pigeon? I think its really silly, homing pigeons and racing pigeons are the same. Just people have adopted to the name racer to any bird they subjectively feel is fast. Also, *why can't you say homing pigeons were bred to home faster and from longer distances?* I don't see a problem with that. This is so semantically ridiculous.


you would not know if your homer was a good racer untill you put him in the race..so really cost of the bird is moot.. the word racing is to say what the homer was bred for or used for. wether your homer is a good racing pigeon would have to be determined by how well he did in the race or races. I really do not see why that is so hard to understand..lol.. racing homers were bred to race well and the hopes is that they do. a racer is not a breed of pigeon....a homing pigeon is.... racing description was given to show it was bred to compete in sport..


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I mean i see what your saying. There may be places out there where they don't call any bird a racer, but calls them all homers. I would just call a racer a type of characteristic of a homer. Like this bird is racing fast. But you can take homers and turn them into racers, and take racers and turn them into homers. So, what is really to the name, just a pedigree. Like i was saying you cant physically tell them apart. I could give you 5 blue bar racer, put a blue band on them and 5 blue bar homer and put a red band on them, If all of the homers do better than the racers, do they now become racers, breeding future racers, and the real racers become homers, breeding future homers. What if this crossed over to other fields of pigeons. For example, lets say there is no such tippler or any other bird which can loft fly for long, lets say 10 hours long. Then i come along and improve the time to 18 hours. At this point it would just be considered a strain. Lets say this strain becomes widespread and many, many people have it. Theres actually more of my 18 hour birds than there are the old 10 hour birds. I myself would at this point call the 10 hour birds just poor performing tipplers and the other ones good. Then, lets say my widely available strain, which is now considered the standard gets broken up and made into many strains. That is how i feel about the racing pigeon. It was a strain of homers broken up into many strains. "what kind of bird is that", "This is a Sure bet homing pigeon, it was bred to race very well"


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

It may have been the only bird I ever NAMED----we called him "DUNCE"


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Look, my whole argument is it is not wrong to say homing pigeons and racing pigeons are they same. Please listen. If someone with great racers receive a bad racer he may not even consider it a racer. Maybe people in Canada think Americans have not bred there birds well, therefor they are not considered racers. How much breeding do you have to do with a homing pigeon till it becomes a racer. If lets say all the boys down the street start up alittle racing club and start racing homers, how much selective breeding due they have to do till you consider them a racer? lets say end of season is done. Someone buys the best two homing pigeons and mates them up, are they now producing racing pigeons?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

All people have done to make the "racer" is be competitive with homers, so just think my tippler example is correct. People who race have just bettered the homing pigeon, and the availability of it is probably more common now than the "homing pigeon". Like i said, im just arguing could take away the racer name of racing pigeons. Refer to them as strains, since that what they are, and in that argument then yes, *certain strains of homing pigeons are different than other stains* if you want to generalize all these strains into a super stain of the name "racer" well idk. Why does there have to be a "generic homing pigeon" I think what we call the "homing pigeon" should be renamed to something like the noncompetitive homing pigeons. Maybe i should draw a tree breaking this down.


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## JasoninMN (Nov 5, 2005)

Well, if I raised homers or racers, whatever you prefer to call them, I certainly would not be bragging about them settling and re-homing in a week. I would be ashamed to admit my birds are that easily persuaded to forget their lofts. What makes a homer in my opinion is the birds dedication to return to the spot its was first flown from no matter what the distance or the challenges it faces. I have had rollers return from over 50 miles after being re-homed, now does that make it a homer? Its sad that a roller has more heart then many of the homers today and that's why people look at racing birds as the real deal. Racing birds have records that show their performance, $5.00 homers at an auction do not. Its obvious where to go if you want birds that have a proven track record of returning home. I have had pigeons off and on since I was a kid for about 15 years now and am still no expert. There are people who have raced birds and shipped their stock all over the country longer then pigeonlover or pluviru have even been alive. I just don't buy that they have found a new method of settling homers to their loft in a weeks time. Any time a prisoner has escaped from me they never looked back and that is years of raising babies in my loft. Surely a couple teenagers have proved the "experts" wrong in the short time that have had pigeons.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Look, my whole argument is it is not wrong to say homing pigeons and racing pigeons are they same. Please listen. If someone with great racers receive a bad racer he may not even consider it a racer. Maybe people in Canada think Americans have not bred there birds well, therefor they are not considered racers. How much breeding do you have to do with a homing pigeon till it becomes a racer. If lets say all the boys down the street start up alittle racing club and start racing homers, how much selective breeding due they have to do till you consider them a racer? lets say end of season is done. Someone buys the best two homing pigeons and mates them up, are they now producing racing pigeons?


are they producing racing pigeons?... they are producing homers from racing stock.. which can be considerd racing homers. If people are going to race which term would suit you best to decsribe what they are doing and the birds being used.. sounds like your splitting hairs...not sure why... do you want to tell the whole racing sport they are wrong for calling the homers they use to race and breed a race bird? please do tell.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Appealing to majority. They can call it that, dont call not the same as a homer. I just did tell everyone its wrong. Do i have to tell each individually? Many people call there birds doves...But we have already been down that route...... I've laid out my arguments pretty extensively. Becky said "Homing pigeons and racing homers are the same thing". Yes theirs varying degrees of sameness ha. Semantics. Really, I'm done with this one, unless i *really* feel i need to come back in.


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## pluviru (Jul 14, 2011)

JasoninMN said:


> Well, if I raised homers or racers, whatever you prefer to call them, I certainly would not be bragging about them settling and re-homing in a week. I would be ashamed to admit my birds are that easily persuaded to forget their lofts. What makes a homer in my opinion is the birds dedication to return to the spot its was first flown from no matter what the distance or the challenges it faces. I have had rollers return from over 50 miles after being re-homed, now does that make it a homer? Its sad that a roller has more heart then many of the homers today and that's why people look at racing birds as the real deal. Racing birds have records that show their performance, $5.00 homers at an auction do not. Its obvious where to go if you want birds that have a proven track record of returning home. I have had pigeons off and on since I was a kid for about 15 years now and am still no expert. There are people who have raced birds and shipped their stock all over the country longer then pigeonlover or pluviru have even been alive. I just don't buy that they have found a new method of settling homers to their loft in a weeks time. Any time a prisoner has escaped from me they never looked back and that is years of raising babies in my loft. Surely a couple teenagers have proved the "experts" wrong in the short time that have had pigeons.



I din't say that I ever rehomed a Homing/Racing Pigeon in a week. If they are young at about 1 week I will do it, but if they are adults as I said I rehomed 10 years old pigeons, it will take 2-3 months to rehome it. Well then if you're that confinced that your pigeons are well Racing Pigeons, I will post a new thread on how to rehome them and try it then you'll see!!!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks pluviru--we are waiting for your post about the "SURE WAY" to resettle Homing Pigeons. 
Will they be rehomed enough that we can ship them to a race???? and they return to our loft?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Appealing to majority. They can call it that, dont call not the same as a homer. I just did tell everyone its wrong. Do i have to tell each individually? Many people call there birds doves...But we have already been down that route...... I've laid out my arguments pretty extensively. Becky said "Homing pigeons and racing homers are the same thing". Yes theirs varying degrees of sameness ha. Semantics. Really, I'm done with this one, unless i *really* feel i need to come back in.


ok.... how about this.. to make it better for you one can say.." I have some homing pigeons..and sometimes I race them". and leave it at that..lol...
or
"if someone wants to get into racing it is best to buy the best homing pigeons that can compete in races"

or.."which birds should I buy to race with?" answer: homing pigeons that have ancestors or parentage that have done well in the sport of racing"... so see, racing homer was not used in any of those.. is that better for you?...


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

re lee said:


> I have raced rehomed birds And won races with them. from 150 miles to 500 miles.. NOW the easyest way I ever rehomed homed any birds Was I got the birds plus the loft so all those birds never changed lofts. I had a bird once i rehomed tossed it at 175 miles FIRST toss it camew home I raced it most the time it would make it in to my loft every so often it would go to its old loft As I raced aginst its former owner. NEVER know about MR pigeon. But agin it is chance it stays or it leaves. I never tried to settle any of my breeder bird As I did not want to chance losing them.


Did you see this Sky? What do you think


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> ok.... how about this.. to make it better for you one can say.." I have some homing pigeons..and sometimes I race them". and leave it at that..lol...
> or
> "if someone wants to get into racing it is best to buy the best homing pigeons that can compete in races"
> 
> or.."which birds should I buy to race with?" answer: homing pigeons that have ancestors or parentage that have done well in the sport of racing"... so see, racing homer was not used in any of those.. is that better for you?...


Sounds great to me. "homing pigeons that come from a long line of fast pigeons"


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes some birds have been rehomed.
I gave another flyer -OCT 2007-about 20 miles from me---my White Delbars.
2-3 months ago one of them - a cock bird -returned to my loft. After he had it for almost 4 years.
SO-the question remains--can you resettle a "REAL" homing pigeon???????


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Sounds great to me. "homing pigeons that come from a long line of fast pigeons"


lol.. not just fast..but actually get home ... and they can not be easily if at all can be "rehomed"...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Yes some birds have been rehomed.
> I gave another flyer -OCT 2007-about 20 miles from me---my White Delbars.
> 2-3 months ago one of them - a cock bird -returned to my loft. After he had it for almost 4 years.
> SO-the question remains--can you resettle a "REAL" homing pigeon???????


we usually do not hear about when after the "rehoming success" of homing pigeons how they take off oneday...may be a week may be years.. they usually don't share that info..lol..


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A racing homer is a bird you breed and race a homing pigeon is the very same breed line But you just let it loft fly and take to you own releases. In othere words race bred birds compete and the others do not Can one be better ONLY if they compete and the bird races better. Resettling birds has gone on for well forever. Special birds like your breeder birds Most will not chance them. Others that you pulled from breeding or chanced to settle Can go on if settled and do well in racing. JUST as all birds that do well in racing may not do well in the breeding loft for you A person has to train and see. IF only the cost of a bird meant its worth then it would be an easy hobby pay more and you will have the better bird. It does not work that way. Do I care if a person settled several birds NO But I am glad they did How many thousands of people have done the same Several I would bet. How many cheap and free birds have helped a loft several. RECORDS prove this even ludo. had a free bird one that showed up at his loft that bird went on to be a key player in his program. janssens bought a cheap bird Out of a rabbit cage that bird helped them. It is not cost, it is not who you got it from. it is not anything more then how good the bird in hand is pretty papers have just as many CULLS as the other birds. Top lofts have just as many culls as the lower lofts. Good birds can be where you have not looked to try. I am glad this person settled a few birds. And i also Know they were lucky Because some you settle some you do not . Never try a birds you can go pick backup As if it leaves you never knowq if it made it back to its old home. And resettling is not the standard practice but it can be done for some


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

re lee said:


> A racing homer is a bird you breed and race a homing pigeon is the very same breed line But you just let it loft fly and take to you own releases. In othere words race bred birds compete and the others do not Can one be better ONLY if they compete and the bird races better. Resettling birds has gone on for well forever. Special birds like your breeder birds Most will not chance them. Others that you pulled from breeding or chanced to settle Can go on if settled and do well in racing. JUST as all birds that do well in racing may not do well in the breeding loft for you A person has to train and see. IF only the cost of a bird meant its worth then it would be an easy hobby pay more and you will have the better bird. It does not work that way. Do I care if a person settled several birds NO But I am glad they did How many thousands of people have done the same Several I would bet. How many cheap and free birds have helped a loft several. RECORDS prove this even ludo. had a free bird one that showed up at his loft that bird went on to be a key player in his program. janssens bought a cheap bird Out of a rabbit cage that bird helped them. It is not cost, it is not who you got it from. it is not anything more then how good the bird in hand is pretty papers have just as many CULLS as the other birds. Top lofts have just as many culls as the lower lofts. Good birds can be where you have not looked to try. I am glad this person settled a few birds. And i also Know they were lucky Because some you settle some you do not . Never try a birds you can go pick backup As if it leaves you never knowq if it made it back to its old home. And resettling is not the standard practice but it can be done for some


It can be done..this we know as you have done it, the thing is, it would be not wise for a beginner with breeders to think he can resettle his birds..because it is so iffy. 

taking the chance seems to be when your done with the birds instead of out right killing them.. one lets them out and hopes for them to stay..which is better? guess letting them out right.. I can never try resettling my breeders.. because for one..the person that bred and trained them would have my hide... do you remember Renee.. or lovebirds loft... yep I would be in big trouble when her birds showed up...lol.. I would not want to be thought of as risking the birds for no good reason. they are my resposiblity now and will never be let out of their flight aviary which they seem to love and will be here till they pass. but that is just my opinion and you know what people say about those..


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> It can be done..this we know as you have done it, the thing is, it would be not wise for a beginner with breeders to think he can resettle his birds..because it is so iffy.
> 
> taking the chance seems to be when your done with the birds instead of out right killing them.. one lets them out and hopes for them to stay..which is better? guess letting them out right.. I can never try resettling my breeders.. because for one..the person that bred and trained them would have my hide... do you remember Renee.. or lovebirds loft... yep I would be in big trouble when her birds showed up...lol.. I would not want to be thought of as risking the birds for no good reason. they are my resposiblity now and will never be let out of their flight aviary which they seem to love and will be here till they pass. but that is just my opinion and you know what people say about those..


For one I said i never let out any breeder birds. BUT what i did try to say was NO REASON TO JUMP OR HARRASS THIS PERSON because they made a thread on how they resettled some birds. That is putting it blunt. And We all know it is not the greatest idea to try to resettle the birds But it can and is done . Just like i think it is dumb for people to let out show type birds knowing they are easy hawk food or fly rollers in the cooler months as thery are real easy hawk food. BUT it is done And I can not stop it So I say little aginst it as they are not my birds. I did not know lovebirds kept whites So did you get some grizzles or some other color. As it would make sense using colored birds to improve the whites.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

re lee said:


> For one I said i never let out any breeder birds. BUT what i did try to say was NO REASON TO JUMP OR HARRASS THIS PERSON because they made a thread on how they resettled some birds. That is putting it blunt. And We all know it is not the greatest idea to try to resettle the birds But it can and is done . Just like i think it is dumb for people to let out show type birds knowing they are easy hawk food or fly rollers in the cooler months as thery are real easy hawk food. BUT it is done And I can not stop it So I say little aginst it as they are not my birds. I did not know lovebirds kept whites So did you get some grizzles or some other color. As it would make sense using colored birds to improve the whites.


yes grizzles.. they tend to throw whites...only one colored one so far..which is fine.. and I do know you did not let breeders out, it is the x breeders or gifted older birds I was refering too and was thinking some beginners may take that as an ok..because you as an experienced keeper have done it and may think they can too with any of their prisoner birds, and make a mistake and lose their birds.. I do not see where he was harrassed...but I do think he does not even have homers ... he must be mistaken that all pigeons can not be rehomed and thinks he has done a great feat..lol...


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

sky tx said:


> I had both Racers & Homers.
> The best Homer I had --I shipped it to ever Race.
> It had over 4,000 offical Race miles on it when I stopped him.
> He would take 2 days to home from accross the street---29 days from the 500 mile race.
> ...


Had one of those. His brother was a winner and so was his daughter, but he never wanted to race. Never managed to lose him either, had to give him away to a kid who just wanted a pretty bird. For those interested, he was a frill.


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

Print Tippler said:


> Look, my whole argument is it is not wrong to say homing pigeons and racing pigeons are they same. Please listen. If someone with great racers receive a bad racer he may not even consider it a racer. Maybe people in Canada think Americans have not bred there birds well, therefor they are not considered racers. How much breeding do you have to do with a homing pigeon till it becomes a racer. If lets say all the boys down the street start up alittle racing club and start racing homers, how much selective breeding due they have to do till you consider them a racer? lets say end of season is done. Someone buys the best two homing pigeons and mates them up, are they now producing racing pigeons?


You can do all these things if you have time on your side. One can even go back to the rock dove if you wish. But since all the work has already been done by generations of fanciers, one would want to take over from that point, not start all over again.
To come back to the subject of this thread, I've only managed to rehome two hens worth their salt who bred me winners but they hadn't been flown at their home loft. All the others cleared off within ten minutes of being let out and that is even after having bred me 3-4 rounds of babies. I stopped taking the chance but accidents can happen.


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