# Injured Pigeon (long)



## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Hi! I was recommended to this forum after finding an injured pigeon in the park. I'm sorry this is going to be ling, but I have SO many questions. His wing is broken - I took him to an avian vet yesterday who immobilized the wing and told me to bring the bird back in 2 weeks. He's not sure if it'll ever fly again, but said it's possible. I've been trying to feed him, but he doesn't seem to care for anything - and this is a pigeon who's been living in an urban park all its life! I'm worried that he's refusing to eat due to being captive. He drinks, and sometimes nibbles at the food, but I haven't seen him really eating much. I've given him cracked wheat bread crumbs, rolled oats, bits of apple (he did seem to like that), sesame seeds, and some broccoli and carrots that I blanched for dinner last night. I've also been giving him some dirt from the backyard for grit, since that's what he'd be getting in the park (we live in Savannah, GA, so the soil is _really_ sandy around here). I've thought about bringing in some grass seeds or other stuff that grows where I found him, but I wanted to make sure first. His poop is really grass-green. And how do I deal with him wanted to bathe? Since his wing his bandaged, I don't want it to get wet, and gave him a small water dish, but I know he wants to - at least, he's spilled the water a few times trying to get into the dish. Lastly, he has mites - I went by the store to pick up some Sevin Dust (which I was told to use), but after reading the label, I put it back for fear of hurting the bird if I dusted him down with this stuff. If it is the right stuff for mite control, how do I apply it without poisoning the bird itself? And do I need to wipe it off afterwards so he doesn't digest it when preening (he does that alot). I'll post some pics as soon as I have some. Thanks so much, and I again apologize for the length of this post


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this needy pigeon and taking him to the vet, as well.

Some wild bird seed will be fine for now, as seeds, legumes and grains is their diet, pigeons should not eat broccoli but can eat peas and corn.

Pigeons use actual grit to help grind seeds in the crop, the best grit for them is "red pigeon grit." Dirt is not course enough and I wouldn't recommend using it.

The seven-dust is fine, just remember to cover his eyes and beak, you can cover the head loosley with an old sock.

You can get a small spill proof bowl if you do not want him to bathe, but if he wants to bathe that is a good sign.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sounds like he's more in culture shock than anything else. Since he's a park-pigeon, he might actually have a little difficulty recognizing the food that he should be eating. The wild bird feed that Treesa mentioned is probably the best way to go. They often don't feel real good for a few weeks after breaking a wing so I wouldn't imagine he'd be feeling real athletic right now. I'd let him just chill for a few weeks and see how he gets on. Some never get used to you and some turn out to really love you:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/pigeons/BerniePijStory.html

Pidgey


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Thank you for answering so quickly! Bird seed, corn and peas - I have mung beans, lentils, and split pleas (all uncooked) here in the house. Should I cook or sprout them first? And how do I let him bathe while keeping the bandaged wing dry? Is there anything (besides broccoli) that I should NOT give the bird under any circumstance, like uncooked rice or garlic (I've heard uncooked rice is not good for birds, and that most bulb plants are poisonous to animals). Thanks again


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Tsepina77 said:


> Thank you for answering so quickly! Bird seed, corn and peas - I have mung beans, lentils, and split pleas (all uncooked) here in the house. Should I cook or sprout them first? And how do I let him bathe while keeping the bandaged wing dry? Is there anything (besides broccoli) that I should NOT give the bird under any circumstance, like uncooked rice or garlic (I've heard uncooked rice is not good for birds, and that most bulb plants are poisonous to animals). Thanks again



Every seed, bean and grain should be uncooked and dry, as you see it in a wild bird seed mix.

Brocolli, brussel sprouts and other cabbages are not recommended for pigeons.

Split peas are fine, do not cook or sprout. A tiny bit of natural whole grain rice in the mix is fine, but should be given sparingly.

Garlic is an herb for preventive treatments for pigeons as well as for sick pigeons, cut a piece off a clove and put it in the birds water. I give my birds garlic capsules once in a while.

Here is what a pigeon feed looks like:

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

great, thanks!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I would, like Pidgey said, go with plain wild bird seed and grit that you can get from the grocery store. Don't let him bathe with the bandage on. It's not that important right now. Keep him in a warm, quiet area.

Thank you so much for rescuing him and caring enough to get him to a vet.

BTW, love your city. One of my best friends lived in Savannah many years.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,


As Pidgey mentions, 'culture shock' can be a factor...for sure...especially if this is the only Pigeon you have, and no others are there to assure him or welcome him in effect.

As for me, I would tend to let him bathe if he seems to be wanting to do so. it may help improve the sense of communication and trust, and, it may be a nice moralle booster for him, as well as to float off some of the Mites.

Plain 'cold' tap water is the general preference they like best for bathing.

A Cake Pan or Cassorole dish or something should work fine for this.


Too, after the bath dish is removed and the wet cloths or paper towells taken out, you may provide an electric Heating Pad with a light colored Towell layed over it for him to liesurely dry off on, but if you do, make sure he has room to be on it or off of it as he likes.

I myself tend to elect the 'medium' setting for them.


Now too, depending on just what kind of break this is or was, if it was commutated, or even if not, there may be some reason to have concern about possible staff or other bacterial infections resultant from the break. For which a suitable antibiotic would be used.

Also, the stress of the injury and change of venue could bring on problems with what are normally background flaura and fauna of his digestive system, to where one or more of these natural normally present organisms starts getting out of hand...

So, if the poops do not soon ( with proper diet, ) assume a neat, tidy, raisen-like size or so, moist enough to be picked up with one's finger tips, if they become runny, smelly, have any 'yellow' in them, or seem mucousy, then consider to have your Vet do a fecal analysis a.s.a.p, and or alert him also to consider the possibility of infection or illness if the Bird is at all seeming apathetic, fluffed or droopy.

Always move slowly and positively with him, be very gentle, and ask his permission if you are to reach into the cage, keep your hands "low" always when possible...and also tell him what you are doing or intending to do.

If the Wing was set correctly, his chances of flying again are pretty good but of course, not certain.

Provideing the best diet, occasions of direct outdoor Sunshine, and safe ( in his terms) supportive care, reduceing or eliminating stressful stimulations, will help him have the best situation possible for his recovery.


Keep any children or other animals or pests away from him...and have him in a quiet place where people activity is not going on....out of any drafts or airconditioning drafts or household commotions.


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

I'm going to try and get some wild bird seed tomorrow - he didn't seem interested in the beans. In fact, he really didn't seem interested in anything while in the box. However, I have noticed him poking his head out and looking around, so I took him into the courtyard a few times today, where he foraged for a little bit, and was able to get some sun and fresh air. My courtyard is completely enclosed, I've gone over and "bird-proofed" it, and I sit out there with him while he's out. He certainly seems more comfortable doing that than sitting in a box all day. Even then, however, when I tossed some beans/seeds to him, he picked them up, then dropped them. He must have found something worth eating, though, since he didn't drop everything he picked up. His poop doesn't smell or anything like that, it's just green and watery. I do have some more questions, though: How is his crop supposed to feel? How pronounced should his keel bone be (I can't see it, but I can certainly feel it when I put my fingers on his breast/stomach area)? Should he sleep alot, and when he does, is it normal to "fluff up" while sleeping (I'm using a rice-filled sock under a washcloth to keep him warm at night)? How do I keep his bandage dry if I let him bathe?

As for the wing, I believe it is a compound fracture (I'm not sure what a "commutated" fracture is, in terms of broken bones), and it's located at the "elbow" - the doctor didn't try to set it or administer antibiotics, he simply immobilized the wing, and told me that the iodine wash and antibiotic ointment that I had used would be fine for prevention of infection. I have some pics, both before and after the vet visit (if I can load the link properly):
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/Tsepina77/Wounded%20Pigeon/
Some of them are a bit blurry, but I was trying to take the pics by myself w/o hurting the bird. You should get an idea of how nasty the injury was, though. The yellow on the wings is iodine, and the glistening on the wound is ointment.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,

Don't know if you are aware or not, but one of the major Pigeon Supply Houses
listed in our Resource section is located in Savannah, Georgia:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Savannah+Georgia+Global+Pigeon+Supply&ei=UTF-8&fr=sbc-web&x=wrt

I've never searched there for pigeon mix, but they do carry a full supply of grits, supplements and medicinal needs for pigeons. I'm sure they would also be able to give you some leads locally for pigeon mix if they themselves do not carry anything.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,


Your images are not happenning, it is just a sign in page...

If the image can be put in your computer, you can use the 'manage attatchments' function lower down when you post, and put the image in your post.



Uhhhhhh...there are several kinds of fractures...some, where the bone is cracked lengthwise somewhat, at an angle lengthwise, at an angle across somewhat, but still intact, or at an angle or more or less straight across where the ends are seperated, and or where the end or ends have broken throug the skin...

Near the elbow, at the elbow, in the elbow, of course would all be rather different...but, the important thing is that it is 'set' so the fracture is closed and the parts lined up right.

"Green and runny' may sigal Coccidiosis or other infection in his digestive system, brought on from a diminished immune system from privation and stress.

A 'box' is no good at all, and even worse for an Adult Bird, so, if you can, get an old shopping Cart you can put some cardboard or something on for a lid, or figure out some kind of Cage instead, and, if you can find a Cage as such, put it at eye level, on something tall like that. Thrift Stores often have used Cages at very favorable prices. They also usually sell used Electric Heating Pads and bulk Towells very cheap.

Keel is located on their lower breast, in the center, and if emaciated, it will feel 'sharp'...

Crop, is above the Keel, and on their chest as it were, front center...

He will probably like the Wild Bird Seed...


Generally, for any broken bone whose end or ends have broken out through the skin, once 'set', a course of appropriate antibiotics are used to gaurd against infection...as well as some initial topical application of an Antibiotic also.

And, generally, a course of Antibiotics are thought prudent to use for any occasion of a broken Bone, even if no end has broken out through the skin...since, especially in a depleted or over taxed immunse system, Staff and other bacteria normally present in non-harmful ways, internally, can opportune and begin to infect the injured area, or, even fan out from there to become a problem systemically.

Normally, poops should be about 30 to 40 odd 'Raisen' sized ones per 24 hour period for a healthy adult Pigeon who is eating enough.

Get a Cage, or something like one which may be improvised...

Lay some light colored towelling in there for him...no newspapers...but Paper Towells are allright to lay on top of cloth towelling if the poops are really runny.

If you like also, you may grab a cake pan or shallow wide bowl, and line it with some soft cloth for him to lay in, which if he is youngish, he probbably would appreciate...and...Drape the Cage on three sides for that metter so thihngs feel snug and safe.

See if your Vet is familiar with doing a fecal analysis to check for Coccidiosis and or other ailments and see about getting that done if possible.


If his Crop seems inflated with air, or gas, or if it feels soggy or sodden, he may have a yeast or Candida infection, and this can be very serious for them, as well as diminish their appetite and sense of well being. It is usually easy to treat.


In fact, go to any Health Food store, and get a small Bottle of "Raw Apple Cider Vinegar" and mix up in a gallon jug, Two Tablespoons of it to one Gallon of good Water...and let this be his drinking water for the next week and a half or so...

This is just a nice thing to do in general, and especially in cases like this.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

While I'm sure the bird is experiencing a culture shock, they don't particularly go for mung beans or other beans, as you won't find them in a pigeon mix.

I'm sure he will look at the wild bird seed more as food, in fact he will be living high on the hog...so to speak.


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Great, thanks, everyone. The pigeon supply store is actually not that far from where I live, so I'll go check it out when I run out to get his stuff. I've changed my account options at photobucket to be public, so you should be able to access the links now. I've never had any luck with placing pics directly on the post, though. The ends of the bone are definitely separated, and have broken through the skin. I'll see what I can do about a cage or something larger for him, and his keel is pretty sharp, so hopefully the wild bird mix will help. As far as a fecal or anything, I'm unfortunately on a budget, and I'm not sure how much the vet would charge me for that - is it something I can treat as a "just in case," as with the crop or antibiotics (I'm not trying to be a cheapskate, but my husband's a high school teacher & I'm a college student, to give you an idea of how much money we don't have)? I'll work on the post attachments, but in the meantime, if you'll try the link again, it should work now. Thanks!


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Young?*

I'm no expert - but looking at the photos and the beak - he looks young - maybe that's why he isn't eating to well? 

Tania


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhhh...an older Juvenile, sub-adult...

The Box could be tolerable...if..."if"...set up 'high' around eye level, and if it has lots of 25 cent piece holes put into it for him to see out of...and a thin light cloth can be draped over the top to hang down on two sides.


Uhhhhhh...where are you located?

There might be some rehabbers or able lay people or other Avian Vets per-se, or list members near you who could A) Have-a-look...B) provide some meds if Coccidosis is suspected...C) Loan you a spare cage...D) Provide additional moral support...E) Take over if you wanted...F) demonstrate tube-feeding or 'Seed-Pop' if need be...

Being a young Bird, he none the less looks to be of an age where eating on his own would have been begun already...but, may not have progressed far enough or certain enough to be really well established...

Sometimes too, Birds of this age, or even older ones, revert somewhat to Baby-ish ways from a recent trauma and will conceed to be fed 'like' a Baby for a few days till they remember they are older then start pecking again...

I take it the Vet was not particularly familiar with Birds? even though he/she made a good faith gesture to stabalize the Wing...?

Antibiotics should be the regimen for something like this...and, really, from-a-vet, the quantity needed would not need to cost more than a Candy Bar, or Lunch or something at most.

Enough Cipro/Batril to treat many cases like this, cost a layman fourty bucks or so, and in the big bottle, the course-per-bird of course would be much much less...so, if they are a 'Good Guy' Vet, maybe ask them if you can just have enough for a reasonable course of treatment, and if he would be kind enough to sell this amount to you more or less at cost.

That way, it should only be about .40 Cents, or, at most, one, two, or three bucks or something if he errs in his favor quite a bit.

Otherwise, he ought to just give it to you and call it good enough and not bother being petty about it.

If this Bird is not eating, this will soon be a serious problem for his recovery, of course...

So...maybe see if you can find some experienced others somehere near you to get some help from...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just looking at the location of the break, I'd say there's a pretty good chance that he could fly again. It's actually in the area that would be the equivalent to the hand in us. There's not a great lot of articulation there--it just needs to be somewhat solid.

Pidgey


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

I don't know how to tell a young pigeon from an older one, but his keel bone is very sharp. His appetite seems alright - when he's in the courtyard, he wanders around, pecking at stuff, then after a while will just stop and sit, fluffed up. I tried putting him in a cage, and he nearly broke his neck trying to get out - not jumping around or anything, but at one point he stuck his head out and tried to bring it back through a different space. I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, or what


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Hi Tsepina 77


Even at the danger of repeating what others have already said, here a brief account what I would do (and excuse if the terminology is not always the correct one, I am not a native speaker): 

1. Injury : Cover open wounds like this with a light dressing which still allows air to get to the wound - bird wounds tend not to get infected easily so I would usualnot give antibiotics unless there is an infection, but certainly no harm in using them if you want to be sure and considering that the bone is affected in this case it might be a good idea. However, as long as the wound is kept dry and clean it should heal up just fine. Surface wounds on birds and especially pigeons heal remarkably well. The dressing also will serve to prevent the bird from reopening the wound when cleaning itself, something which happens quite often.

The bigger problem is the healing of the break. I checked what commutated break is supposed to mean- fragmentation of bone- can you see the actual break yourself? It is hard to tell from the picture. Is it really broken or is it like a strong abrasion?

From the pictures I take it that the wing is not really set well - it hangs down. As others have mentioned before me, the danger is that the break does not heal together properly, so the setting is really important - I would certainly not squeeze the wing together with a bandage, which does immobilise it to a certain degree, but brings it in an unnatural position. My apologies if I should have misread the image, but that is what it looks like to me: dressing at the elbow and fixing device behind it around the wing (?)

What my godlike pigeon vet used to do in the case of wing breaks was to put the wings in the proper position which usually means that the wing tips are slightly overlapping and when you look at the bird from the front, both wings are at the same hight and angle, lying relaxed beside the body (strange description, I know). When you have them in this position, tape the wings together where they overlap. Check if the position looks good, re-adjust if necessary. Might be a good idea to get a second person to help with that. If additional fixture is necessary a bandage will have to go around the broken wing AND THE BODY to hold the wing in the proper position. Just fixing the wing to itselfs will result in improper setting.

2. Food and poop

Green and fluid could also mean "hunger poo". Simply nothing in the system. Since it sounds (and looks) like this is quite a malnourished and weak youngster, I would initially force feed him. Often -especially with young birds which are not used to proper food- a few sessions are enough to introduce them to the concept. It is important that he gets his food now, so he does not starve and heals well. Also put vitamins in the drinking water. 

As others mentioned, he might also have other conditions - which especially in malnourished birds is likely and antibiotics will clear most of them. However, we have some standard pigeon products we use here, which you can get quite cheaply and which we routinely give to birds we take in, I do not know the brand names in your part of the world, but can give them to you if interested so you can check with your vet - but probably others on the list know them as well.

Until you get pigeon food, just put together the basic mix: wheat, barley, corn, peas, all dry. That is the basis of every pigeon food, plus fancy stuff, which they love, but the basic mix should be alright. What most pigeons are also extremely keen on and which is in moderate dosis also fine are peanuts - just shelled and perhaps broken into quarters. In the case of malnourished birds they are also great to get calories and B vitamins into them.

3. Mites

I would ignore them at this stage. I would not stress the bird or get the wound wet with any bathing or powdering - mites are not nice, but they are secondary at the moment, focus should be on the wound and his eating.

Leave the mite treatment to when he is better - they do not go on humans and they should not bother him much, they all have them. When he is well enough definitely use the powder and follow what has been said above, i.e. avoid eyes and beak. 

Hope this is of some help and apologies to others if I have repeated what you have already said. This is my first post here and I have only started to read through the postings - great stuff - I am delighted to see so many people feeling as strongly about these birds as I do.

All the best
Quitte


P.s. Hi Tsepina, just saw your last post

Re pecking - definitely force feed him now, he needs food and does not know how to get it. If you need advice how to do that let me know.

Re nervousness - it is normal for them to try to get out of a cage. They hate being locked up. Two thingsto do
1. Create shelter where he can hide, i.e. if normal bird cage, cover half of it with a towel 
2. Give him a mirror. Cosmetic mirror shoud do the job, big enough that he can see himself. they crave pigeon company and that usually really works a treat. They cuddle up to the mirror and are quite content.


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

The bone is REALLY broken - possibly in 2 places - and the end of the bone was sticking out of the wound. When I cleaned the wound with iodine, there were bits of what might have been bone on the iodine pad (might also have been dirt or scabbing - I'm not absolutely positive). And yes, the vet dressed the elbow, then essentially taped the primary wing feathers to some of the tail feathers. The pidge does try to fly, however. I took him to the pigeon supply store that is here in town (thanks, feralpidgeon!), but unfortunately the owners are in Europe right now and their daughter admitted that her knowledge of injured/malnourished birds is limited. She did, however, give me a jar of "Dacoxine 4 in 1" which she said would be good for e. coli, coccidiosis, canker, and paratyphoid, and suggested that I give the pidge some pedialyte with his water. The dacoxine says to mix 1 ts to a gallon of drinking water for a week, and daily multivitamins. The lady at the store said it needs to be mixed fresh daily, so how much should I prepare each day (I don't think he drinks a gallon a day)?

I do not know how to force-feed him, so any assistance there would be fantastic. the wild bird seed I've been trying to give him is composed of milo, white proso millets, wheat, sunflower seeds (little black ones), and calcium carbonate. Thanks.

P.S. - In addition to how to force-feed a pidgeon, WHAT do I force-feed it? And should I administer the dacoxine if I'm unsure that the pidge has any of the problems this stuff is supposed to treat? Thanks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi trespena77,


If he is interested to graze or forrage out in the yard, just scatter some Bird Seed 'there' for him to eat...

You can mix say, a quart of Meds at a time, refridgerate, and use that for several days.

If he is still active, probably he is not critically starving, but do try the Seeds-in-the-yard, in a place where they are esy to peck, and see what he does...

You do not want to force-feed a Pigeon unless it is a definite last resort, and other ways of seeing if he will eat have been exhausted.

The meds she gave you probably would be fine in various ways, but do not address the possibility of infection ariseing from the Broken Bone.

The Calcium Carbonate you mention being 'in' the list of ingredients for the Seeds, can be contraindicated for some Antibiotics, in case you do elect to ask your Vet for some.

Anyway, just scatter some Seeds in a place in the yard where he can see them and peck them easily...and give him some space to graze and forrage if he will, where he feels safe and with no one hovering...and he will most likely eat.

If you line his Cage or housing arrangement with a light color towell, you can easily see the poops, how many there are, and what they look like, if they are runny or well formed, and this will be a good indicator of whether he is eating enough, as well as telling something of his health.


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

And yes, the vet dressed the elbow, then essentially taped the primary wing feathers to some of the tail feathers. The pidge does try to fly, however. [/QUOTE]

It is absolutely necessary to tape the wing ends together in the proper position. The broken wing must be symmetrical to the healthy one. It is really quite easy, get rid of the old fixing device and tape the wing ends together. Not including the tail. If he still tries to fly fix the wing to the body, I can describe that in detail if you want.

She did, however, give me a jar of "Dacoxine 4 in 1" which she said would be good for e. coli, coccidiosis, canker, and paratyphoid, and suggested that I give the pidge some pedialyte with his water. The dacoxine says to mix 1 ts to a gallon of drinking water for a week, and daily multivitamins. The lady at the store said it needs to be mixed fresh daily, so how much should I prepare each day (I don't think he drinks a gallon a day)?[/QUOTE]

I do not know the product- somebody else on the list might know. The official amount of water a pigeon is supposed to drink a day is about 60-80 ml. That however rarely happens in my experience, however depends on air humidity and so on. So what I would do is work out roughly the amount needed for about 20 mil- it does get inprecise at such small amounts but that does not matter too much from my experience. If you mix it with a small amount of water you make sure that it gets it all in and then can drink normal water for the rest of the day.

I do not know how to force-feed him, so any assistance there would be fantastic. the wild bird seed I've been trying to give him is composed of milo, white proso millets, wheat, sunflower seeds (little black ones), and calcium carbonate. Thanks.

P.S. - In addition to how to force-feed a pidgeon, WHAT do I force-feed it? 

The normal food. In order to make your life easier, it is best to use stuff that is not too small like millet, but peas, corn ,wheat, but when you have developed a technique you will be able to feed the small stuff as well.

O.k., my technique - don't be afraid, it sounds more complicted than it is and I am describing it in probably far too much detail.

For the beginning it is easiest if you wrap the body ofthe bird into a towel, so you can place it on your lap without it getting away. Have you ever seen how breeders hold their birds? The legs are stretched to the back - try to do that, it is the easiest, then wrap the towel around its body. Then hold the bird in place with the palm of your left hand (if you are right handed) on its back so that the head is pointing to your right. Hold the head or rather the point where the beak begins between your fingers. Thumb on the side facing you, index finger on the other. Try to open the beak with your right hand at the front or the side of the beak, then use your fingers from your left hand to keep it open. Still thumb and index finger, just fixing the beak in the open position. Then take some seed between the fingers of your right hand, pea or peanut is good for practicing and put it into the middle part of the beak. Not at the front, because it will fall out or the bird will spit it out. Do not actually stuff it into the beak, because there is the danger that you might push it into the breathing hole, which you can see at the back of the tongue. Has never happened to anybody I know, just being paranoid. It helps to slightly stretch out the neck of the bird when doing that. Let go of the beak and see if the bird swallows the seed. If not you might have to pop the seed into the back of the throat. In that case definitely stretch the neck out upwards. Don't be afraid, it all sounds and feels in the beginning more terrifying than it is. Nothing can go wrong really.

And should I administer the dacoxine if I'm unsure that the pidge has any of the problems this stuff is supposed to treat? Thanks[/QUOTE]

Again, I do not know the product, the stuff we use is fine to give to them without a diagnosis - my suspicion is that it is o.k., but I hope that somebody else on the list has some experience with that?

Good Luck
Quitte
P.s. Did you try the mirror?


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

If a bird is malnourished or sick and does not eat it is absolutely crucial to feed it. I am never keen on force feeding myself, it is stress for the bird, but it is however in no way harmful. Rather stress it a bit than let it starve. Of course you need to give it opportunity to eat on its own, but if it does not do that, as it appears to be the case here, you need to do something about it rather than let it starve, you do not want it to get to a stage where it gets dangerous. Tsepina, does it take in any food at all? If that is not the case - feed it. It should quickly learn to do it itself after that.


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

I did place him in front of a mirror, but he really didn't pay any attention to it. I just watched him try to pick up some seed (both from my hand and from the ground), which he can do quite well, but he dropped it every time. I didn't see him successfully eat one seed, though he tried. He drinks quite well - in fact, he seems to be pretty thirsty whenever I put him in front of some water and dabble my fingers in it. I'm about to try the "seed-popping" you described


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

By the way, how much should I force him to eat in one sitting? and how often during the day? I have tried it, and it works moderately well (though I noticed that after forcing a few seeds down him, he "suddenly" became a little more successful in eating the seeds he picked up  ) And something else about the lack of response to the mirror - twice now he's approached and snuggled up to me - though whether that's affection or a desire for warmth, I don't know.


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Hi there

Re feeding: Well done! It is really only a matter of practice. They are supposed to eat about 50 gram a day, a bit less or more depending on size and condition. Break it down into smaller amounts, I would feed him or her about four times a day until you get a feeling how much you can give at a time. If you give it too much at a time it might throw up. A good way to check is to feel the gullet - you should feel a walnut-sized amount max. That would already be a lot!

And it is a good sign that he is already starting to eat better! He can now learn that while getting the food he needs. Check if the digestions looks better a few hours after eating. 

Re mirror - well, he might just prefer you to another pigeon! Leave the mirror in the box just in case, though, sometimes it takes them a while to get it...

Quitte


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Thanks - I really appreciate the help. I guess the feeding must've worn him out (he _really_ didn't like his beak being pried open, and it was a matter of whether I was able to get the seeds in his beak before he twisted his head away), since he went to sleep almost as soon as we were done. I'll keep you updated

P.S. I don't have to force-feed him grit too, do I?


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Yes, they are not too keen on being fed...understandably. 

Yes to grit as well. A pinch after every feeding and then some water


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't bother with grit right now. As to the Dacoxine, here's what I'd do--get a 1/4 teaspoon measuring spoon and put one level spoonful in a quart of water a day for the seven days. Don't let him drink any other water. If you wanna' be stingy, put the 1/4 teaspoonful of powder on a piece of paper and divide the pile in half as well as possible and only put one-half the pile in a pint (16 ounces) of water at a time. Try that--it's within keeping of the instructions. Also, try to measure how much water is left at the end of the day so that you can judge the difference and know how much he's really drinking. Then we may adjust the quantity.

The only other thing that I can think of is that this pigeon's kinda' slender, right? Do you have a kitchen scale that you could measure him with? We might need to adjust for that but he'll almost do it automatically because he'll hopefully drink based on his true body weight.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The reason I said not to bother with the grit is that I don't know how it will affect that drug. When in doubt, take the grit away. It can make a difference depending on the mineral content of the grit, but some medications (especially the Tetracyclines and Fluoroquinolones) are chelated by grit.

Pidgey


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Didn't know that! Will keep it in mind.

Quitte


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,


Too, if he has some intestinal illness or other internal illness of some kind...he might drink far more than usual, trying to flush his system. This would of course effect the actual percentage of medicine in water he would be getting, which is based for dosage on the presumption of the Bird having normal Water intake for his weight.

If he fell asleep after being force fed 'Seed-Pops', this may indicate he is pretty sick and or worn down.

His wan pecking attempts, similarly...as illness can take away their appetites sometimes.

What was the upshot on his getting a fecal-analsys done at your Vets?

Did you talk with them about that?


Unless Car-Wacked and really heavily effected from blunt trauma, he should be eating well even at this age, or interested to be eating, unless something is out of wack.

I see appetites in abayance from illness sometimes, or from severe global blunt trauma rarely, but not from broken Wings.

Anyway, if he IS digesting decently, plain, regular, unpopped of course, old fashioned, in the bag 'Pop Corn', just the plain raw kernals...

Goji Berries, cut into thirds or halves ( get from any health Food store...)

Mix these in a little cup...add a tiny bit of fresh Olive Oil...sprinkle on that some light sprinkleing of plain ( not the salted kind, ) powdered Garlic, and do 'Seed-Pops' with these. They are both large enough to be effecient for this, and will be very good for him.


If you wrap him in a small utility hand towell, the kind they sell say at Leows for 3.50 a half dozen or something, these are about 14 inches by 14 inches I think...'white'...so it is around his wings and body, but not squishing him of course or cumbersome, you can tuck him between the place right behind your knees, and hold him there with his Tail and the towell bottom held there...so he is upright....and easily do the 'Seed-Pops' that way...having him face maybe part way to your right, if you are right handed. 

Your left hand steadys his head and neck, and with your right hand, gently open his Beak by at once, prying 'up' for his upper Beak, and down with his lower one, so that there is not any sideways stresses, useing your right hand's finger tips or nails even...then, getting some of your left hand finger tips into his Beak, or just one finger tip, your right hand is free to elect the Seed or dried Berry, and put it in behind your finger tip that is in there holding the Beak open, putting it in there from the side, further back as it were.

And, have another small towell in your lap with a depression in it for holding the cup of Seeds you are working out of so they are handy. 


Just refriderate these till next use, and make just enough in advance for the day.


Anyway, that is one description as for the 'how'...


Best of luck with him..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

He's not doing so well this morning. He pecked a little bit at my hands when I took him out for the day, but shows minimal interest in water or food. He's just sitting there, fluffed up - not even foraging like he's done in the past few days. Additionally, I got my first good look at his keel bone, rather than just feeling it. There's NO flesh whatsoever - his skin goes over the bone like a tent. I'm really worried he might not make it, and while I tried putting a little bit of the medicated water on his beak - which he did drink, if only to get rid of it - I'm afraid to try forcing fluid down him. I've also asked my husband to grab some pedialyte when he goes to the store. 

What are Goji berries?

I was also wondering - if I don't feed him grit, then how will he digest the seeds?


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Hi Tsepina

Does he drink when you dip his beak into water? As Phil said, it looks like he is ill on top of being malnourished and it is thus crucial that he gets the medicine in. Try to dip his beak into the water (obviously not that deep that his nose is in the water) and hold it for a few seconds and see if he drinks.

If he does not drink at all you might have to give him the water by tube and syringe. 

If he is that emaciated, it is important that you keep feeding him, nonregarding how unpleasant it is for both of you. Do you have peanuts? They are good to get more calories with less force-feeding.

To the others on the list: Do you think she is o.k. with that medication or would an antibiotic be worth a try at this point? I do not know the products you are using



Good luck and fingers crossed
Quitte


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You do have to be careful not to feed emaciated birds too much because it takes a surprising amount of energy to digest food. It's one of the reasons that they often don't make it when they're emaciated.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,

You may want to try a baby bird formula that comes in powder form, such as Kaytee Exact. Mix it and dropper it into the front of the beak and allow the pigeon to swallow on its own. Even human baby food such as Gerbers, as they are easy to digest for a sick bird. Also, is the bird being kept quiet and warm? A heating pad set on low would be good. 

There is one listing through the Association of Avian Vets in Savannah, Georgia:

http://www.aav.org/activemembers.html#g

Perhaps this is the avian vet you brought the bird to, sometimes they will take a bird in and treat if you sign the bird over to them. You could ask.
There may be someone else close by who would take the bird in as well.

Here's a link to a list of other rehabbers, you would know better than I if they are close by, scroll down to the bottom of the list:

http://www.spotsociety.org/atl_shelter_listmain.htm

fp

If the powder form of the Dacoxine 4-in-1 is the same as the tablets, then the contents are:

Furaltadone.....15mg
Ronidazole....... 5mg


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pidgey said:


> You do have to be careful not to feed emaciated birds too much because it takes a surprising amount of energy to digest food. It's one of the reasons that they often don't make it when they're emaciated.
> Pidgey



Yes, the amount of energy required to eat a big meal would wipe him out, as he needs all his energy focused on healing, sometimes they just go down hill because they can't do both.

Be sure to provide the bird everything he needs including warmth, as he will not have any reserves to re-build new tissue, or mend bones, and even grow etc.

Also, too much stress will also deplete him, feed him with the least stressful way, baby bird formula might be best for now.


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

I am keeping him warm - during the day I sit outside with him, where he can get fresh air and sunlight. In the shade it's probably at least 70 or so degrees. I've tried dipping his beak in water, and he "smacks" his beak a little when I do, but doesn't drink with the same gusto as he did before (even as late as last night, when I gave him some water he stuck his beak in and sucked water down for about 30-45 seconds without lifting his head for air). I do have peanuts, but I would need to wash the salt off of them before feeding him - what I've been doing today is taking the bird seed and blending it with a little bit of extra virgin olive oil, minced garlic, and a pinch of avian multivitamins before "seed-popping" sessions with him. If I use the baby-bird formula, can I use the medicated water to mix it, or should I keep it separate?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Tsepina77 said:


> I am keeping him warm - during the day I sit outside with him, where he can get fresh air and sunlight. In the shade it's probably at least 70 or so degrees. I've tried dipping his beak in water, and he "smacks" his beak a little when I do, but doesn't drink with the same gusto as he did before (even as late as last night, when I gave him some water he stuck his beak in and sucked water down for about 30-45 seconds without lifting his head for air). I do have peanuts, but I would need to wash the salt off of them before feeding him - what I've been doing today is taking the bird seed and blending it with a little bit of extra virgin olive oil, minced garlic, and a pinch of avian multivitamins before "seed-popping" sessions with him. If I use the baby-bird formula, can I use the medicated water to mix it, or should I keep it separate?


Hi Tsepina77,

Skip the peanuts all together, they are only meant as a treat for healthy birds, not a mainstay for sick ones. Yes, you could use the treated water for the baby bird formula. 
fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,


Well, you are having to deal with quite a lot there...!

Goji-Berries are an Asian Berry, high in nutrition and antioxidants and Vitamines, and are a very good food to include in the diet of any young, ill, injured or needing-to-be-fed Pigeon.

Normally, healthy wild or feral Pigeons brouse various Weeds and low Herbs and plants for fresh Greens and Seeds and small fruiting bodys, as well as to graze or brouse under fruiting Trees and Bushes for what fallen small Berries or fruiting bodys such can provide.

Not 'Apples' or large fruits, but tiny ones...ones people never know about or care about.


If I had your Bird, at this point, I would likely begin to tube-feed him.

My usual recourse for something like this, is to feed them a thin nutritous 'Soup', which is along the same lines as the formula I would make for infant Pigeons.


The thing is, that the proceedure of course is not easy for someone who is new to it, and if done badly, can kill the Pigeon or injure them, and most people will not listen, or listen well, when detailed instructions are given...or they loose patience with the information and then change things and kill the Bird or hurt it.

If there are any experienced rehabbers in your area, or breeders or whomever, who can demonstrate the method, and or take over for a while, this would be a big help for you and him...


Otherwise, we can all in succession try and describe our own impliments, formulas, and delivery methods to you, and you can decide what you wish to try out of all that.


Tube feeding can of course allow medicines to be mixed with the food, or with the formula or the 'soup' ( as I call it, but it is not 'soup' like people soup mind you) so that the non-eating Bird may obtain their medicine AND their needed, ideally 'easy to digest' nutrition.


If you open his Beak, under a good light, and look...you will see into his throat.

In the center, behind his Tongue, you will see a possibly opening and closeing little hole or aperature, and this is his Trachia or Wind Pipe.

Behind that, to the rear, is the back of his Throat, which leads to his Esophagus.

The Esophagus is where the Tube must be guided to descend, to go into his Crop some ways, but not to bottom out or get caught in the sides of it.

His Wind Pipe, of course, is to be carefully avioded when inserting the Tube.


The 'Tube' should be small enough to be comfortable in passing through his Throat and esophagus, yet should not be so small in inner diameter as to make it hard for the formula to pass.

The Tube may be a Lavage 'Needle', which has a little Egg shaped end and is holow and rigid...or, it can be about any kind of soft rubber or silicone or plastic tube which will guarantee as much as possible, against pierceing or abraiding the sometimes very tender structure of his Throat, Esophagus and Crop.

I myself use Silicone Catheters, or rather, a short section taken from the end of them, which in my case, are the kind intended to be fitted to a tapering end of either a syringe or 'drip' bag or other device. 

I use about three inches or so length of one of these, with it's socket end cut shorter to fit a medium/large tapered end of a Syringe.

Some Syringes (as say, the basic cheapie 'feeding syringes' sold at petsmart for example, or in hobby stores, or even some of the medical kinds when intended for irrigation rather than injections, ) need to have this tapered snout or end cut down short also, so the hole in the end is large enuogh for reasonable semi-solid ingredients of the formula, to pass, or to pass without undue pressure being needed...and to ne the same as, or slightly larger than, the interior diameter of the elected 'tube' whiuch is to be fitted to it.

Plain soft tubeing or some catheter mid-sections, can be warmed with a small flame from a match or cigarette lighter, to momentarily soften it, so it may be stretched onto a short tapering snout of a Syringe, where it will then stay and fit nicely on that taper, if a socket-end section of Catheter is not available.


One lubes the 'tube' with either some K-Y Jelly or better yet, a little Olive Oil...and, with the Pigeon's Beak being held open, much as one would do for 'Seed-Pops'...one slides the end of the tube along the side of the Pigeon's rear-mouth-area and Throat, and gently lets it slide down into his Crop, to a pre-determined distance...and not all the way to the 'bottom' of the Crop...but say, to about what one takes to be the middle of their Crop...

One makes sure not to accidently elect their Wind Pipe, which really is very easy TO get around, but it is very important one knows it is there, and NOT to go into it by mistake.


"Nutrical" - a goo in a tube, sold at petsmart and other places for kittens and puppies...

'Goji Berry Juice' or 'Black Cherry Juice' or even the concentrate or olf time Syrup when containing nothing BUT Cherry ( Tart Cheery, Sour Cherry, Black Cherry)...or Elderberry Syrup concentrate similarly...NOT reguar store stuff, NOT 'pancake syrup'...but medicinal Fruit syrup in essence...Health Food Store things...these come in 'small' Bottles.

'Hagens Breeding Mash', or "Kay T' or 'LaFabers' or 'Loribush' or other kindred 'powders' intended for Baby Bird feeding...

Lacking these 'powders', use plain, non flavored old time 'Malto Meal', or, or additionally even, use organic Pea or Hemp Seed flower or fine meal, available at any Health Food store.

'Misu' ( any oriental section of grocery store's cooler section or Oriental market in the cooler section...)

These may be mixed, in a little Tea Cup or small Custard dish...dry ingredients first, then pour Water on them enough to cover them with about a qyarter inch of standing water initially...and let them sit a while and absorb the Water...then, add the wet ingredients, and while warming in a pan of hot Water, with the ingredients in the little cup with the cup IN the Hot an inch or so of hot Water...stirr all well into a good homogenuity...and add more Water if need be, to make a sort of 'warn day melted ice cream' consistancy.


Meds may be added as may be...


Say, a heaping teaspoon of 'Hagens' ( or other dry meals, powders or what or combinied of them) ...a half Teaspoon of Misu...a good inch long squig of 'Nutrical' ...a half teaspoon of concentrated Cheery or Elderberry Syrup, or, a full Teaspoon of Goji Berry, Dark Tart Cheery or Elderberry Juice...

This will do a few feeds for the emaciated Pigeon...is easy for them to digest, and is very good nutrition...and promotes happy bowels...


Food-formula-'soup' should be adminstered/served "tepid", as, say about the temperature of the inderside of your wrist...

Do NOT microwave...

Rewarm, in the cup, in a pan having hot water in it...


If tube feeding 20 ccs of this, take about six or eight seconds to get it in...in other words, do not squirt it in fast, but get it in gently and medium slowly, surely...so, count to ten, say, and be done by the time you get there...then gently pull out the tube.


Make sure you are not applying pressure against their Crop when holding them to tube feed...


Thats the crash-course...!


I wish you well...!

Good luck...!

We are all here of course, for further questions...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Not to change the subject here....please excuse me.*



quitte said:


> Hi Tsepina 77
> 
> 
> Even at the danger of repeating what others have already said, here a brief account what I would do (and excuse if the terminology is not always the correct one, I am not a native speaker):
> ...



*Hi Quitte,

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk.  

Thank you for your contributions. 

I want to officially welcome you to our forum, and I appreciate your time devoted in helping with care of this pigeon. 

You have posted alot of great information here, as well as in your other posts.

Hopefully, together we can all resolve the health issues of this bird.

I just wanted to let you know, I am glad your here and that please forgive us if we have overlooked your first posting on our forum.  We really can get carried away and are just deeply involved and commited in caring for this youngster, as I see you are,.*


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Tsepina77 said:


> I am keeping him warm - during the day I sit outside with him, where he can get fresh air and sunlight. In the shade it's probably at least 70 or so degrees. I've tried dipping his beak in water, and he "smacks" his beak a little when I do, but doesn't drink with the same gusto as he did before (even as late as last night, when I gave him some water he stuck his beak in and sucked water down for about 30-45 seconds without lifting his head for air). I do have peanuts, but I would need to wash the salt off of them before feeding him - what I've been doing today is taking the bird seed and blending it with a little bit of extra virgin olive oil, minced garlic, and a pinch of avian multivitamins before "seed-popping" sessions with him. If I use the baby-bird formula, can I use the medicated water to mix it, or should I keep it separate?



Hi Tsepina,


The chow-menu sounds very good indeed...!

I did not see your post here earlier for some reason or I would have replied sooner.

Of course, the concen has evolved to wonder if he should have foods which are easier to digest...

If minced fresh Garlic, enough to halfway cover one's little finger nail 'bed' area, would be plenty I think...IF all else is well enough for this kind of meal to be digested allright and so on...and IF he is drinking enough Water...

Sometimes 'tepid' Water, even with a little pinch of Salt and Sugar and fruist juice ( not citrus, but like Cherry or Elderberry or Goji-Berry ) in it, will not only be benificial for them, but might invite them to drink when they were not interested otherwise...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Too...

"How are the Poops" is the perennial question, especially if one is wondering how their digestion and or food intake is getting along...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Poops seems to be getting worse - where they were green and watery before, this morning they were green and slightly thicker - more gooey than watery when I cleaned them up. After his last feeding (roughly 2-1/2 hours ago), his one poop since was very tan, and not as much as before. When I looked at his keel bone, I realized I can actually see into his crop through the skin, and I can differentiate the individual seeds I fed him earlier. Do I need to wait until they're all gone before feeding him again, or go ahead and give him some baby formula? I went ahead and gave him a little medicated water, and he tried to drink some on his own (about ten minutes ago), but still not with the energy that he'd been drinking over the past few days.


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## quitte (May 18, 2006)

Thanks Treesa, it is a great forum and it is lovely to see others who have the same strange obsession as me.

Re Tsepina: I would not use roasted and salted ones, stick with what you are feeding for the moment. 

Re peanuts : I never suggested she should feed peanuts _only_. The main point is that she needs to get some food into the bird at this stage. And btw, I had good experiences with peanuts as _additional_ food to normal food with sick birds - high protein, high vitamin b and fat content. Obviously the staple food should be what they eat naturally, i.e. grains and pulses or a suitable substitute, ie. special baby-food or amynin and electrolytes.

re earlier discussion about sourcing problems for normal pigeon food - over here they sell the main components in supermarkets, dry peas, wheat, soup mix etc.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,

I don't think you need to wait for all visuals of seeds to be gone before starting w/the baby formula mixed w/the Dacoxine 4-1. If the bird was self-watering, it may not have drunk as much of the water because of the taste, causing the poop to be a bit pasty. Could also be that the medication is doing what it is supposed to do, and so the poop isn't as watery. The Ronidazole in the mix is meant to address canker(Trichomoniasis), and the Furaltadone is meant to address Salmonella, E. coli, and bacterial intestinal infections. It may also cause some upset stomach on its own, but if mixed in w/the formula, and given in between meals to ensure the pij is getting enough water, I would think that you should start to see some results within a couple of days.

Sometimes it's the medication itself that can cause a bird to seem not as 'feisty', I'm sure you've had the experience yourself of being on an anti-biotic and just not having the normal reserves that you experience when not, even towards the end of the course of meds when relief from the illness is well under way.

Here's a link on tube feeding/medicating that you might find helpful:

http://pigeoncote.com/vet/feedbaby/feedbaby.htm

Because the bird seems frail, I would opt for smaller feedings for now until it seems that the food is being well tolerated. Then you could increase the frequency as time permits.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

quitte said:


> Re peanuts : I never suggested she should feed peanuts _only_. The main point is that she needs to get some food into the bird at this stage. And btw, I had good experiences with peanuts as _additional_ food to normal food with sick birds - high protein, high vitamin b and fat content. Obviously the staple food should be what they eat naturally, i.e. grains and pulses or a suitable substitute, ie. special baby-food or amynin and electrolytes.


Hi quitte,

I should have welcomed you as well, thanks to Teresa for setting a good example.

I didn't mean to put you off on the topic of peanuts. They are considered to have naturally occuring mold spores on them, and so in a sick bird where we don't know for sure what is going on, it's just a precaution to not add an additonal stress to the birds system when there are other food sources that would be less problematic and easier to digest. 

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'd like to ask a question about those poops--you said they were getting gooey-er or something like that. I'm wondering if it's "catarrhal"? What that means is basically that there is a mucoid component. You can take a Q-Tip and dip it into it and roll it around to test the consistency and see if it will form little streamers like snot. If that's the case, I'd suspect the possibility of Coccidiosis and now I've got to go back and see if that medication covers that. I think it did but it should take a few days to work if that were the case.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, that medication is supposed to take care of Coccidiosis but it's not one of the normal drugs for that so I don't know the pharmacology. We'll just have to see at this stage.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

quitte said:


> Thanks Treesa, it is a great forum and it is lovely to see others who have the same strange obsession as me.
> 
> Re Tsepina: I would not use roasted and salted ones, stick with what you are feeding for the moment.
> 
> ...



Hi quitte, 


Quite so...

Moreso, even...NO 'peanuts' of ANY kind for this Bird, in his condition...

And NEVER any Roasted or Salted peanuts for ANY Pigson, ever...

NO roasted Nuts of any kind...

"Period"...


If a Pigeon is healthy, for SURE has good Crop function and digestive condition, then, m-a-y-b-e, some nice, occasional, raw, HIGH Grade, human grade, fresh, "small' RAW peanuts spareingly...out od the 'shell' of course...

Otherwise "No", please...it can clog them up and kill them.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...too, scanning previous posts...

I would start feeding 'soup' now if it were me, JUST to be getting the meds into him, AND to be getting hydration into him also.

The 'tan' poop would be some food that got digested...so...that is good, for sure!

The 'green' maybe bile or who knows...

If...you feel confident to do it, and have or can get the means to do it, please consider to start getting thin nutritious, medicated 'soup' into him now.

If need be, even a small diameter Eye dropper can be used carefully, when one gently has it's end for sure down into his throat...and if one is reasonably swift with the deed, and one can do several in a row small feeds like this to get enough down into his Crop...maknf sure not to drip any onto his wind Pipe opening as one does it....and this, with merely Water and Meds even, would be a good thing.

Glad to hear he has some Seeds in his Crop...these ( no Peanuts in there I hope! - ?) will be a nice slowish digestion for him...

But he should have liquids, and liquid meals also if at all possible, that are fast easy digesters, and that will start nourishing him and hydrating him...


Best wishes you two...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Well, it looks like I started the soup too late . . . when I went to check on him this morning, he had passed on during the night . I buried him about an hour ago . . . Just wanted to let everyone know. Thanks for all your help.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77,

I'm very sorry to hear about your rescue. We do the best we can, and sometimes this simply isn't enough to help our rescue. From the sounds of everything you described, you had an uphill battle on your hands. On the bright side, you gave the pigeon love and support in a time of need and it passed on safely without being traumatized by a predator, and in your supportive environment. Thanks for doing so much to try and bring him/her back to good health.

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Tsepina77

I'm so sorry your pigeon passed away. You did your very best with him.

It has been a sad day with others on the forum losing birds. Everyone can be comforted that they did everything possible to help the birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry the bird passed away, I know it was a real struggle for you and you did your best.

I'm sending my heartfelt condolensces and one BIG hug for comfort.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh...

Well, good try tspina77...


I am sorry.


Glad you tried! and were able to do what you did.

Best wishes...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

It's a very sad thing to lose one. It's a hard lesson to learn that you can't save them all. 

I'm sorry.

Thanks for trying. Many would't do that. It's appriciated.


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## Tsepina77 (May 16, 2006)

Thank you guys for you support and advice. I am glad that I was able to at least try to help him, and that he didn't die out in the park where I found him


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