# Another newbie



## Noahs helper

Hope I have posted this right and you guys don't throw me out. First let me say.... Love reading on this site! I am attempting to modify a old tool shed for a coop and have white homers for pets. I will have many questions as I go along, but my first concern is, how I need to prepare for colder temperatures. I live in Nashille, Tn...but we do have freezing temperatures at times and the shed is made of thin wood. Please, could you give me some things that I may or may not need to take into consideration while planning?
Thanks


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## Kevin

Noahs helper said:


> Hope I have posted this right and you guys don't throw me out. First let me say.... Love reading on this site! I am attempting to modify a old tool shed for a coop and have white homers for pets. I will have many questions as I go along, but my first concern is, how I need to prepare for colder temperatures. I live in Nashille, Tn...but we do have freezing temperatures at times and the shed is made of thin wood. Please, could you give me some things that I may or may not need to take into consideration while planning?
> Thanks


Hello and welcome to the site! Don't worry about anyone 'throwing' you out, the members and staff of PT are very helpful and nice. I'm pretty sure pigeons can handle cold weather as long as your loft is kept dry, and draft free. Your birds are gonna need good ventilation. Also, if you have the space, it would be a good idea to separate your birds into sections (cocks, hens, old birds, young birds, breeders etc..).


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## bcr1

I don't think that cold is a problem. Heat in the summer is probably more of a problem. Make sure it is well ventilated but can be closed up in cold weather. I would recomend reading in the loft design forum. Lot of good info there. Welcome to P.T


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## spirit wings

yes, good ventilation, and the shed needs to have a floor, prefer wood, not a dirt floor. an aviary is a must, facing south is best.


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## Ed

If you can afford it I would recommend you purchase something that will keep your water from freezing.
Most pigeon supply places sell the water heaters that sit under the waterer.
I had a problem with my water freezing last winter.


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## Tennman1

Hello Noahs helper, I live in Waverly, about 65 miles West of you. Folks already gave you the answers, I just want to say welcome to the site. Get some birds and keep reading here. I have white homers and rollers and converted an old play house I built for my daughter about 18 or 19 yers ago into my loft. Now I need to build another loft, and bigger too. This gets addicting. Anyhow, welcome and read alot here and get those birds.


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## Noahs helper

Thanks everyone for the friendly welcome, I really appreciate it and can clearly see how this will become very addictive.


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## Kevin

Noahs helper said:


> Thanks everyone for the friendly welcome, I really appreciate it and can clearly see how this will become very addictive.


Addictive, scary, and exciting, all in the same package haha.


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## Noahs helper

My space is only 10' x 13' with 8' ceiling slopping to 6.5'. I think separating would be a problem. What would be the maximum amount of birds I could expect to "comfortably" accomodate in this small of a space? Volumn of birds is not my entent, I just need to know how few I should start out with, because I would love to raise some young also and have no idea at this point how fast they can or will reproduce.


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## Noahs helper

StoN3d said:


> If you can afford it I would recommend you purchase something that will keep your water from freezing.
> Most pigeon supply places sell the water heaters that sit under the waterer.
> I had a problem with my water freezing last winter.


Thanks! I had been wondering how I would solve that problem, so glad to know there is a simple solution!


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## Noahs helper

Tennman1 said:


> Hello Noahs helper, I live in Waverly, about 65 miles West of you. Folks already gave you the answers, I just want to say welcome to the site. Get some birds and keep reading here. I have white homers and rollers and converted an old play house I built for my daughter about 18 or 19 yers ago into my loft. Now I need to build another loft, and bigger too. This gets addicting. Anyhow, welcome and read alot here and get those birds.


Thanks for the welcome. I have family in Waverly, know exactly were your at. White homers...do you ever sell birds? I'm having a hard time finding a breeder near nashville.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> yes, good ventilation, and the shed needs to have a floor, prefer wood, not a dirt floor. an aviary is a must, facing south is best.


Have lots of ventilation, unfortunately on the north side. But it can easily be covered when needed. Also have an open, but well screened window on the south side. My plan was to build the aviary on the east side, because they would be hidden from my view on the south side which would make me really nervous. Would the east side be an okay choice?


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## Tennman1

No kidding, who are they?


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## Noahs helper

Tennman1 said:


> No kidding, who are they?


Bland and Medlin, know any of them?


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Have lots of ventilation, unfortunately on the north side. But it can easily be covered when needed. Also have an open, but well screened window on the south side. My plan was to build the aviary on the east side, because they would be hidden from my view on the south side which would make me really nervous. Would the east side be an okay choice?


east is better than the north! if that is what you have to work with. they like and need to sit in the sun, so sunrise with some sun early in the day would work. the open part at the north sounds great if you can cover it in the winter, sounds like great summer ventilation.


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## della

Welcome Noah's helper! I began in pigeons with 6 white homers 7 months ago and I am still learning, but would love to help you with tips I have learned in this brief time. Can't help with advice on US climate though! Have fun!


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## Noahs helper

della said:


> Welcome Noah's helper! I began in pigeons with 6 white homers 7 months ago and I am still learning, but would love to help you with tips I have learned in this brief time. Can't help with advice on US climate though! Have fun!


Thanks, I would appreciate you tipping me on ANYTHING you think will be helpful. I'm gonna need all the help I can get!


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## Noahs helper

*Confused about trap doors*


Okay, I have been reading, and now I am more confused than ever. Homers... as pets, no interest in racing, want to let them fly freely as much as possible. So....if I make a door for them to enter and exit, why do I need for them to be able to enter, but not exit? I am trying to say...if I let them out to fly and they return, then why do I need to trap them and keep them from exiting again? I don't know exactly how to ask. obviously. Can you pros please read thru my stupidity and frustration and help me to understand what type of door I need to install on my coop? please.


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, I have been reading, and now I am more confused than ever. Homers... as pets, no interest in racing, want to let them fly freely as much as possible. So....if I make a door for them to enter and exit, why do I need for them to be able to enter, but not exit? I am trying to say...if I let them out to fly and they return, then why do I need to trap them and keep them from exiting again? I don't know exactly how to ask. obviously. Can you pros please read thru my stupidity and frustration and help me to understand what type of door I need to install on my coop? please.


well it is for means of more control, say you want to let your birds out for say an hour because you have to go out to eat with the in laws...you don't want to leave your birds out unattended so you would call them in to eat and they trap in and can not get out so you can go out to eat or what ever you need to go do. predators can and will follow pigeons into a loft and can cause havac, so it is a way to fly your birds and then call them in to keep them in if need be, and you can go on your way. you should always be out with the birds to watch for birds of prey or even a stray cat, so before you leave you can lock them up to be safe.


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## Noahs helper

*Thank you*. So it IS just for safe keeping per say. Something I had read in another post , really had me confused. I read it as though you had to trap them and keep them in for awhile before you could release them again or there would be a possibility that they would not return. It just didn't sound right, but I need to be sure before I start this adventure! Yes, I will always be out with them and am trying to design an entry to keep out preditors. I have a Mister Ed door that I will use for entry, but I was thinking I should build an entry just for the birds, I'm thinking every time I open the door they may want to go out it. So I should try training them to an entry of their own!?! you think?


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## RodSD

Don't worry too much. Pigeons can handle cold spell, snow, etc. Obviously, your loft should have windows that you might have the ability to control its openings. On those cold months, give them more corn to keep their bodies warm. It is nice that the opening should be facing south or east. North facing might give wind chill.

Welcome to the forum.


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## RodSD

If you are talking about resettling, then they are right. You have to keep the birds temporarily inside while they learn their surroundings either through aviary or settling cage. If these are adult, they might go back where you got them so what you are trying to do is making those feel like they have a new home now. You are "rehoming" them.

Trap is used as one-way door so that they can get "trap." You don't want these birds freely roaming all the time because there might be hawks and other predators that can kill them. You also can lose control and they might do something that you don't want like they poop on your neighbor's laundry line, car, etc. It is a form of control.


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> *Thank you*. So it IS just for safe keeping per say. Something I had read in another post , really had me confused. I read it as though you had to trap them and keep them in for awhile before you could release them again or there would be a possibility that they would not return. It just didn't sound right, but I need to be sure before I start this adventure! Yes, I will always be out with them and am trying to design an entry to keep out preditors. I have a Mister Ed door that I will use for entry, but I was thinking I should build an entry just for the birds, I'm thinking every time I open the door they may want to go out it. So I should try training them to an entry of their own!?! you think?


yes for safe keeping and for race folks who want to take the band off the pigeon to put it in a clock that marks the time. but your not racing so the trap door is to get everyone in and not let them fly back out, so you can lock the trap and have the birds safe in the loft so you can go in to eat dinner! or if you see a hawk you can call them in perhaps before an attack, or on the weekend you want to let your birds out for a spell but the wife wants to go to walmart to pick out a new "telly" then you can call them in and lock them up so you can go on your way. If you are home all day and have not seen any birds of prey around then I see nothing wrong with open loft all day, just should be home to keep an eye on things. as far as the door, you need to make it so they can't fly out easy, but if one did do a flyer you can open the trap door and hope he goes in when he gets tired of being out there alone, so it is good for that too. why Iam glad I have trap doors. well one of my fancy pigeons got out, never do I let these ones out, but he did, and guess what he trapped in the homer loft that evening and he was safe, there was no way I was going to catch him up in the tall tree, so I went in to make supper and he was in the loft that evening, if i did not have those trap doors he would still be out there as hawk bait as frillbacks are not as savvy as homers in that area. so another good reason to have a trap door. oh also, I never trained him to trap he just did so now I call him fancy pants, because he was smart enough to figure it out himself...pretty cool.


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## Tennman1

Nope, afraid I don't know them.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> yes for safe keeping and for race folks who want to take the band off the pigeon to put it in a clock that marks the time. but your not racing so the trap door is to get everyone in and not let them fly back out, so you can lock the trap and have the birds safe in the loft so you can go in to eat dinner! or if you see a hawk you can call them in perhaps before an attack, or on the weekend you want to let your birds out for a spell but the wife wants to go to walmart to pick out a new "telly" then you can call them in and lock them up so you can go on your way. If you are home all day and have not seen any birds of prey around then I see nothing wrong with open loft all day, just should be home to keep an eye on things. as far as the door, you need to make it so they can't fly out easy, but if one did do a flyer you can open the trap door and hope he goes in when he gets tired of being out there alone, so it is good for that too. why Iam glad I have trap doors. well one of my fancy pigeons got out, never do I let these ones out, but he did, and guess what he trapped in the homer loft that evening and he was safe, there was no way I was going to catch him up in the tall tree, so I went in to make supper and he was in the loft that evening, if i did not have those trap doors he would still be out there as hawk bait as frillbacks are not as savvy as homers in that area. so another good reason to have a trap door. oh also, I never trained him to trap he just did so now I call him fancy pants, because he was smart enough to figure it out himself...pretty cool.


Thanks so much for explaining. Sometimes I feel the more I read the more confused I get. But I am determined not to get discouraged! By the way, I'm a she. Yes, I am going to try to do this alone, will probably take me forever and it will certainly not be a great loft, but I am going to give it my best shot. I want these pigeons BADLY!


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## Noahs helper

Tennman1 said:


> Nope, afraid I don't know them.


Good. Some of them...wish I didn't.


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## Noahs helper

Next question (imagine that). Does anyone foresee a problem if I put the trap on the north side? I realize this is not the place of choice, but very much needed in my situation. Reason being...it is the only side that I can clearly see from all angles of my deck and yard and the only way that a preditor could gain access, so I want to be able to keep a close eye on it. I welcome your comments.


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Next question (imagine that). Does anyone foresee a problem if I put the trap on the north side? I realize this is not the place of choice, but very much needed in my situation. Reason being...it is the only side that I can clearly see from all angles of my deck and yard and the only way that a preditor could gain access, so I want to be able to keep a close eye on it. I welcome your comments.


you can put it where ever you want it or where ever you can so it will be fine. I would want to beable to see the door too. sorry thought you were a guy....I like your handle noah's helper too. it is the aviary you want on the east or south side to get sunshine, so when they are locked in the loft they can bask in the sun which they need and love to do.


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## Noahs helper

RodSD said:


> Don't worry too much. Pigeons can handle cold spell, snow, etc. Obviously, your loft should have windows that you might have the ability to control its openings. On those cold months, give them more corn to keep their bodies warm. It is nice that the opening should be facing south or east. North facing might give wind chill.
> 
> Welcome to the forum.


I just found your response after posting another question about the position of the trap.
Sounds like north is definately not a good idea. And thanks for the advice about more corn in the cold weather. I love getting these tidbits of information. With the all the help I'm getting from everyone...maybe by the time I'm ready to get my birds, I'll know what the heck I'm doing. lol


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> you can put it where ever you want it or where ever you can so it will be fine. I would want to beable to see the door too. sorry thought you were a guy....I like your handle noah's helper too. it is the aviary you want on the east or south side to get sunshine, so when they are locked in the loft they can bask in the sun which they need and love to do.


Well, you have just made my day! I soooo want that door on the north side. Thanks!
So you got the meaning of Noah's helper? Wondered how many would know what that referred too.


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## Noahs helper

*Nest boxes and fronts, perches*

What EXACTLY are nestbox fronts used for? And, why are all pigeon perches attached to walls rather than hung from ceiling?


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## Jay3

The perches are on the wall, cause if they were hung from the ceiling, the birds would be flying into them. Also, when you walk through the loft, you'd be banging your head on them all the time. The nestbox fronts are good as they make it easier for the cock to guard the box and keep out other birds. But I've read that they also make it harder for the cock to throw another bird out, should one get in. Also, they normally have a door that you can close up if for some reason, you want to keep them in their box. An open box, you can't do that.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> The perches are on the wall, cause if they were hung from the ceiling, the birds would be flying into them. Also, when you walk through the loft, you'd be banging your head on them all the time. The nestbox fronts are good as they make it easier for the cock to guard the box and keep out other birds. But I've read that they also make it harder for the cock to throw another bird out, should one get in. Also, they normally have a door that you can close up if for some reason, you want to keep them in their box. An open box, you can't do that.


Thank you. I was under the impression that they were used to pair birds of your choosing. I want mine living together freely and chosing their own mates. But since it is for protection, I will use them. Am I just wishful thinking and naive to think that all age birds can live together?
Perches: Okay, that's reasonable. But if I just wanted to hang a perch by a window...there's no problem in a hanging perch?


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Thank you. I was under the impression that they were used to pair birds of your choosing. I want mine living together freely and chosing their own mates. But since it is for protection, I will use them. Am I just wishful thinking and naive to think that all age birds can live together?
> Perches: Okay, that's reasonable. But if I just wanted to hang a perch by a window...there's no problem in a hanging perch?


well pigeons in the wild are more cliff dwellers not swinging from a branch, so a perch in mid air would swing, they would more likely hit it when flying around as jaye said already, a "windowsill" perch would work better for them as they like flat stationary perches. If you are going to let the pigeons hatch babies,a bird with out a mate can cause trouble in the breeding loft, so I would put pairs only in where you are breeding, all ages do get along, except just weaned birds and babies need to be protected from older birds,as they can sometimes pick on them. nest fronts are handy, but even a partial front is good, I put up 2 inch slates an inch or so a part going the whole length of the nest boxes up and down on one side, leaving half of the nest box open with out the slates, this is where the cock bird can sit and guard his box, if you have boxes next to each other make the openings on the opposite sides so the birds can't jump from one box to the next.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> well pigeons in the wild are more cliff dwellers not swinging from a branch, so a perch in mid air would swing, they would more likely hit it when flying around as jaye said already, a "windowsill" perch would work better for them as they like flat stationary perches. If you are going to let the pigeons hatch babies,a bird with out a mate can cause trouble in the breeding loft, so I would put pairs only in where you are breeding, all ages do get along, except just weaned birds and babies need to be protected from older birds,as they can sometimes pick on them. nest fronts are handy, but even a partial front is good, I put up 2 inch slates an inch or so a part going the whole length of the nest boxes up and down on one side, leaving half of the nest box open with out the slates, this is where the cock bird can sit and guard his box, if you have boxes next to each other make the openings on the opposite sides so the birds can't jump from one box to the next.


Well I should have know better...guess I'm just used to all the perching birds I feed in the yard. A windowsill perch is a great idea, I'll do that. To cover the slatted area on the north side, I am going to have plexiglass cut to cover it in the cold months. I think it would be nice for them to have some additional perches along that area because it will still get plenty of sunlight thru the glass and would give them a much wider view of their surroundings. Someone else mentioned separating the breeders, how do you accomplish that in such a small space?


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## Jay3

I do have perches that are attached from the loft roof, but not in the middle of the room. They are on the side, but where you couldn't attach them to the wall. They don't swing. They are attached to a 2X4, which is attached to a flat piece of wood, which is attached to the ceiling. But they are not in the way of the birds flying. I like having nest boxes that you can close if you have to for some reason. I have a shelve up that runs across a window up near the top. The birds like that shelf. They like different places to sit when they're out of the nest box. There are lots of things you can do, just hard to explain what they are sometimes, when you're typing it. Maybe we should take pictures of our lofts, and show you. LOL.


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Well I should have know better...guess I'm just used to all the perching birds I feed in the yard. A windowsill perch is a great idea, I'll do that. To cover the slatted area on the north side, I am going to have plexiglass cut to cover it in the cold months. I think it would be nice for them to have some additional perches along that area because it will still get plenty of sunlight thru the glass and would give them a much wider view of their surroundings. Someone else mentioned separating the breeders, how do you accomplish that in such a small space?


well I guess you can't if it is a small space, If it is real small, best not to add more pigeons anyway. or get one or two pairs only and then let them hatch a few rounds and that would be it..


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## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Well I should have know better...guess I'm just used to all the perching birds I feed in the yard. A windowsill perch is a great idea, I'll do that. To cover the slatted area on the north side, I am going to have plexiglass cut to cover it in the cold months. I think it would be nice for them to have some additional perches along that area because it will still get plenty of sunlight thru the glass and would give them a much wider view of their surroundings. Someone else mentioned separating the breeders, how do you accomplish that in such a small space?


It would be nice to have additional perches in that area. 
As far as separating the breeders, If you have single birds in with the breeding pairs, there is usually trouble, as the single cock birds are not mated, they are always looking for mates, and strutting their stuff, and fighting with the other cocks more. Once they are mated, it usually calms them down a bit. They could also go after another pairs babies and hurt them. It's just easier if you have mated pairs together. Breeding pairs together even better. They're all busy raising their own babies, and usually more peaceful. Your loft isn't that small. 10X13. Some people just divide it down the middle. One side for the breeders, and the other side for the others. Then some have one side for the cocks, and one side for the hens. Some people separate them when they are not breeding them, so then they put the hens on the other side. Then they have a section for the babies, as you can't just turn them out at a month old into a mixed loft, as sometimes and adult will really injure them. So many different things they can do. But you are just keeping pets I think, and I don't know how many birds you're planning on having. So, it depends on what you want to do with your birds, and how many you will have, and what works for you. 
I have a loft full of rescues. I have homers, fancies, and ferrals. I have an 8X10, and it isn't divided. I don't plan on breeding, but the occaisional Oops baby happens. Most of my birds are mated. You should see the combinations, as they choose their own mate around here. They are my pets and I love each and every one of them. We do have our skirmishs around here, but we work them out. This is when a box that closes comes in REAL handy. On occasion someone is on time out. Not too often, but sometimes it's neccessary. Many people keep them in one section, and it works fine. I think if they race or breed alot, the extra sections are more important. If you're just going to have a small number as pets, I don't think it's as important. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but again, it depends on your goal. How many birds are you planning to keep?


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> It would be nice to have additional perches in that area.
> As far as separating the breeders, If you have single birds in with the breeding pairs, there is usually trouble, as the single cock birds are not mated, they are always looking for mates, and strutting their stuff, and fighting with the other cocks more. Once they are mated, it usually calms them down a bit. They could also go after another pairs babies and hurt them. It's just easier if you have mated pairs together. Breeding pairs together even better. They're all busy raising their own babies, and usually more peaceful. Your loft isn't that small. 10X13. Some people just divide it down the middle. One side for the breeders, and the other side for the others. Then some have one side for the cocks, and one side for the hens. Some people separate them when they are not breeding them, so then they put the hens on the other side. Then they have a section for the babies, as you can't just turn them out at a month old into a mixed loft, as sometimes and adult will really injure them. So many different things they can do. But you are just keeping pets I think, and I don't know how many birds you're planning on having. So, it depends on what you want to do with your birds, and how many you will have, and what works for you.
> I have a loft full of rescues. I have homers, fancies, and ferrals. I have an 8X10, and it isn't divided. I don't plan on breeding, but the occaisional Oops baby happens. Most of my birds are mated. You should see the combinations, as they choose their own mate around here. They are my pets and I love each and every one of them. We do have our skirmishs around here, but we work them out. This is when a box that closes comes in REAL handy. On occasion someone is on time out. Not too often, but sometimes it's neccessary. Many people keep them in one section, and it works fine. I think if they race or breed alot, the extra sections are more important. If you're just going to have a small number as pets, I don't think it's as important. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but again, it depends on your goal. How many birds are you planning to keep?


Well, I have changed my mind on that question at least a hundred times! But seriously, my goal is to have enough to make a really nice...formation... (or whatever you experts call it) against a beautiful blue sky (it is the most beautiful and peaceful thing I have ever seen). So I'm thinking, between 7 to 10, *IF *I have the space.


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## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Well, I have changed my mind on that question at least a hundred times! But seriously, my goal is to have enough to make a really nice...formation... (or whatever you experts call it) against a beautiful blue sky (it is the most beautiful and peaceful thing I have ever seen). So I'm thinking, between 7 to 10, *IF *I have the space.


You're just keeping a small amount. I don't think you intend to keep breeding. Maybe every now and then? I don't really think you need all those different sections. Just my opinion. You just want a happy little group of pigeons all living and flying together. A small section for a breeding pen, in case you want to separate a pair and let them breed now and then would be nice. I'm sure there are other opinions and advice. You need to do what's right for you and your birds.


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## Noahs helper

Exactly! I want to raise just enough to make a happy little loft and to be seen pretty in the sky. But not so many that I would draw an unnecassary amount of attention. Not sure how one of my grouchy neighbors are going to respond now. I definately do not want to raise to sell or anything. I just want a few pets. And hatching a few eggs..oh that would be the ultimate reward! Don't you think I should only have two pair and let them do the rest to accomplish the amount I want?


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## Jay3

That would be a great start. If you wanted to later, you could always pick up another pair. But with two pairs, it wouldn't take long. They would each have two babies, usually one male and one female. Then you'd have 6 of them! Sounds like a good start to me.


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## Noahs helper

So do you think a 10 X 13 loft would accomodate up to 10?


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## spirit wings

easy, you could have up to 40, but that is the max, so I would say 10 to 20 would be nice.


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## Noahs helper

REALLY? I would never have thought that many. But I do only want, I think, less than ten.


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## Noahs helper

Need advice. I am attempting to build a nest box today. Can a nest box be too large? I have a choice of building them 22" wide or 44" wide, to make this project a lot simpler for me. They will be about 23" tall. And I can make the depth to whatever is needed. So...22 or 44???


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## Jay3

Why not 24? And why 23 tall. What is the reason for your measurements?


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## spirit wings

yes tell more.


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## Guest

why not just build your nest boxes to standard which is Exterior measurements 16” deep x 25-1/2” wide x 12-3/4” high, interior measurements are 12” x 24”.


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## Noahs helper

this building was built with 22" studs and already has shelves and brackets that I can use and make this much simpler for me. The shelves will have to be replaced, but the brackets to these shelves are bolted in and kinda rusty, so no way can I remove them. so I'll use them where they are. I was planning on replacing the shelving, add sides to them and whala, I would have a box! With that said...I can either add the sides at approx 22" or 44". If 22", I can make them 18" deep to make up for some of the inches I will lose by not making them 30". I sure hope this makes sense. I'm just trying to use what resources I already have available, because this is NOT going to be an easy task for me.


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## spirit wings

I think the 22 x 18deep will be fine, I don't think you are going to be breeding alot anyway, so go with what you got.


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## Jay3

Jan, why not build them the 44", then divide them in half. You now have made two nest boxes out of the one long one. And you're not going to be breeding a lot any way. So you won't really need a box that will hold the babies, plus new bowl for new eggs. You don't really want them so high though. Also, remember, in the colder weather, the bigger the box, the harder for the bird to warm it with their body heat. Mine are 16" high, but I heat my loft. 14" high or so, would be good. I agree with spirit wings. The 18" deep would be fine.


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## Noahs helper

Thanks guys/gals, now I'll go see what damage I can do!


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## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> why not just build your nest boxes to standard which is Exterior measurements 16” deep x 25-1/2” wide x 12-3/4” high, interior measurements are 12” x 24”.


Just in case....what would a prebuilt nextbox cost and where would you find them?


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## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Just in case....what would a prebuilt nextbox cost and where would you find them?


They're not hard to build. I think you can do it. Have confidence!


----------



## spirit wings

I think foy's has them http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/


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## Jay3

Maybe we should show pics of our different nest boxs to give her an idea of what she needs. Then she can figure it out.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Jan, why not build them the 44", then divide them in half. You now have made two nest boxes out of the one long one. And you're not going to be breeding a lot any way. So you won't really need a box that will hold the babies, plus new bowl for new eggs. You don't really want them so high though. Also, remember, in the colder weather, the bigger the box, the harder for the bird to warm it with their body heat. Mine are 16" high, but I heat my loft. 14" high or so, would be good. I agree with spirit wings. The 18" deep would be fine.


See...I knew there was probably a reason they shouldn't be so large...that's why I asked you guys! And yes, I am going to make the full 44'', but I didn't know if I should divide it to make 2 -22" or just have 1-44". I'll try to do something to adjust for the height. Thanks Jay


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Just in case....what would a prebuilt nextbox cost and where would you find them?


heres the ones for foys http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles34838.jpg
heres new england pigeon supplies http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/cat...atalog.php?page=1&category=Nesting%20Supplies

it would be much cheaper to build your own


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## Kevin

LokotaLoft said:


> it would be much cheaper to build your own


Exactly! And you can be a little bit creative and add a bit of your own style.


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> Exactly! And you can be a little bit creative and add a bit of your own style.


yes Kevin, it will be a bit of my own style....whatever that style is! LOL


----------



## Kevin

Haha. Basically, sometimes I have no clue what im talking about.


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## Noahs helper

*inside scoop*

Okay everybody, I went out and took some pics to give you the "inside scoop", literally! It's rough and needs alot of work, but it's all I've got. I'm a dreamer/planner (as I like to call it) so I actually do see potential here. So keep an open mind and blast me with the comments, ideas, crits and whatever else you may have to offer! I have no doubt that you will...that's why I love this site, you guys will tell it like it is!


----------



## Jay3

Kevin said:


> Exactly! And you can be a little bit creative and add a bit of your own style.


Exactly. Everyones loft is different, that's what makes it so great. They all work. It's fun to design what you want, and the way you want it.


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> Haha. Basically, sometimes I have no clue what im talking about.


Ah yeah ya do, so come on and give me some input on my pics I posted.


----------



## Kevin

For now I would recommend cleaning and taking everything out. Then work on the floors, if you have access on the floors from the outside of the loft I would put grated flooring but from the looks of it, it would be a better idea if it wasn't grated. It would be easier to clean. After that, think about if you want to build sections, Breeders / young birds / hens / cocks etc. I have to go right now, I'll think of more lol.


----------



## Jay3

Kevin said:


> For now I would recommend cleaning and taking everything out. Then work on the floors, if you have access on the floors from the outside of the loft I would put grated flooring but from the looks of it, it would be a better idea if it wasn't grated. It would be easier to clean. After that, think about if you want to build sections, Breeders / young birds / hens / cocks etc. I have to go right now, I'll think of more lol.


She only wants 10 or fewer pet birds to fly. She won't be breeding a lot, so doesn't really need it sectioned. And a solid floor is better. Easier to clean.


----------



## Kevin

Jay3 said:


> She only wants 10 or fewer pet birds to fly. She won't be breeding a lot, so doesn't really need it sectioned. And a solid floor is better. Easier to clean.


Oh I see, then cleaning it out would the the first step, then work on the solid floor. Hehe.


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## Noahs helper

Okay guys, what size is the door on a nestbox front? And according to the pic of the prebuild one...I need something in front of the door for them to land on, right?


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Okay guys, what size is the door on a nestbox front? And according to the pic of the prebuild one...I need something in front of the door for them to land on, right?


That perch that they land on, often folds up to close the box. But you don't have to do that. I think they are usually about 5", but I could be wrong. You can just put up some slats or dowels to the front, and a perch big enough for them to sit on comfortably. It can be your own design. Everyone does something different. Mine are open mostly. Some have just part of the front closed off. Just depends. I'm sure someone here with those nest boxes can tell you though.


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## Kevin

That 'perch door' is optional, you can choose to put it or not put it.

Here are other examples with no doors, just to give you a little bit more ideas.
These are from Brian's (bcr1) loft. I like his craftsmanship. You can choose to put those fronts, or not. All up to you. (I prefer the fronts)


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> That 'perch door' is optional, you can choose to put it or not put it.
> 
> Here are other examples with no doors, just to give you a little bit more ideas.
> These are from Brian's (bcr1) loft. I like his craftsmanship. You can choose to put those fronts, or not. All up to you. (I prefer the fronts)


Hey I like these. Thanks for sending the pic. Now, do these fronts have to be removable or can they be permanently attached?


----------



## Jay3

It may be optional, but having a perch makes landing easier when the front is partly covered with the dowels. That leaves them less room to land. Besides, the cock likes having a perch outside of the box.


----------



## Kevin

Noahs helper said:


> Hey I like these. Thanks for sending the pic. Now, do these fronts have to be removable or can they be permanently attached?


No problem.

I'm pretty sure either one would work. If they're permanently attached, make sure that the opening is big enough to fit in things like the nest bowl.


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> No problem.
> 
> I'm pretty sure either one would work. If they're permanently attached, make sure that the opening is big enough to fit in things like the nest bowl.


See, another thing I had forgotten, getting the nest bowl in! Thanks for that, I would have really screwed up. I'll make them removable. Do you know how large the door needs to be?


----------



## Kevin

Jay3 said:


> It may be optional, but having a perch makes landing easier when the front is partly covered with the dowels. That leaves them less room to land. Besides, the cock likes having a perch outside of the box.


That's true, sorry about that.



Noahs helper said:


> See, another thing I had forgotten, getting the nest bowl in! Thanks for that, I would have really screwed up. I'll make them removable. Do you know how large the door needs to be?


Here are the plans of the nest boxes with the front 'perch door'. It also comes with plans for building those wooden feeders with dowels, so it's 'poop-proof' as I like to say.

http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/LOFTACCESSORIESPLANPAGE.html

Credit goes to Renee and Lovebird's loft. Those we're from her wonderful website.


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## Guest

the front needs to be able to be opened for cleaning purposes too .. and the perch outside the front is very helpful to the birds for getting into the nestbox... now as for the door I would make them at least 6" wide and 6 or 7 inches tall .. the nest fronts make it easier for the birds to fend off other birds trying to enter their nestbox


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## Noahs helper

Great link. Thanks again. I've been thinking on these fronts all day and just couldn't get my ideas fine tuned. The space I'm working with has got some obsticles and I have been trying to figure out how to work around them. Even this link gave me the idea that I could side hinge them. Because I discovered today that top or bottom hinge will not work for me. But a side might, I'll check that possibility tomorrow. If not, them I'll just have to make them removable. Always more than one way to skin a cat, I always say! Where did that goofy saying come from anyway?lol


----------



## Jay3

If the fronts are not removable, it's impossible to scrape and clean the nest box well.

As a matter of fact, I've just thought of another way you can attach them, and still make them removable. On each side of the nest box, just inside, put a 1"X1" running from top to bottom of the box, about an inch just inside. Make the fronts to just fit inside, and go up against those two boards, like a door stop. Now put a turn botton on each side on the front. You just turn it up to release the box front, and put it back to hold it in place. Do you know what I mean by a turn button?


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## Noahs helper

Oh yeah, I got two boxes in place today. I haven't nailed them together yet because I want to be absolutely sure first. At this point, they have turned out to be 28" wide, 17" tall and 18" deep. They will have to tolerate a couple of wall studs in them, but that's not too bad I don't think for what I had to work with.


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## Guest

its not the size of the box that matters it the ease of cleaning it lol


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## Jay3

LokotaLoft said:


> its not the size of the box that matters it the ease of cleaning it lol


You can say that again! I think she'll learn that.


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## Noahs helper

Yes, this has been considered and most likely what I'll have to do, because I have a wall stud that I'm pretty sure is going to prevent me from hinging them. I just really didn't want to go this route of recessing them, because it would take away from their space. But if has to be, so be it. Thanks Jay


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## Guest

just rememeber the studs in the back dont effect the fronts , I myself went around them and as long as the nestbowl fits in the box you shouldnt have to worry


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## Jay3

With 18" deep, you're worried about taking away from their space? They'd still have 16" deep, which is a good size for what you want. These aren't going to be breeding boxes. But they will still be plenty big to breed like you want to.


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## Jay3

Check out other lofts on here and get some ideas. You'd be amazed the dfferent things everyone does. And it's fun checking them out. You might get a few ideas of your own.


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## Noahs helper

Okay guys, here goes another question....is there any reason why I should not make the inside of the loft colorful? I love to paint and have some ideas of some things I would like to do, but if it would have some kind of ill effect on the birds then I would just keep it simple. Any thoughts on this please?


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## Jay3

Why don't you just wait until you get the birds, then you can take a vote on it. That way, you could get their opinion. Just an idea.


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## Jay3

Actually, some people paint the nest boxes in different colors to help the birds find their own box. Nothing wrong with color. I think it would be pretty. I myself, would like to have mine in a soft, relaxing sage green. White, or light colors will make it brighter inside the loft. So, if you have a dark loft, chose light colors. I wouldn't paint a mural with the sky and clouds, as your birds may fly into the walls. Just kidding!


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Actually, some people paint the nest boxes in different colors to help the birds find their own box. Nothing wrong with color. I think it would be pretty. I myself, would like to have mine in a soft, relaxing sage green. White, or light colors will make it brighter inside the loft. So, if you have a dark loft, chose light colors. I wouldn't paint a mural with the sky and clouds, as your birds may fly into the walls. Just kidding!


Well you know me....I was very much considering doing that to the "ceiling"...but I was afraid it would be confusing to them, so I decided better not.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Why don't you just wait until you get the birds, then you can take a vote on it. That way, you could get their opinion. Just an idea.


Well because, I'm afraid they would all agree on a color that I hated!


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## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Well because, I'm afraid they would all agree on a color that I hated!


Well, when you give them options, just don't mention those colors.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Well, when you give them options, just don't mention those colors.


And you have the audacity to call ME nuts?


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## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> And you have the audacity to call ME nuts?


ROFL!!!


----------



## della

On the colour topic, I followed the advice of one member from this site who said that he only ever painted his perches/shelves in pigeon-poo grey or off-white, that way after he had scraped the shelves each day they looked halfway decent. It is a good consideration, since pigeon-poo stains on dark colours make the loft look awful in no time. I saved the brighter, contrasting colours for the nest box fronts which don't get so much line of fire. For your nest-box front design, check out my recent pics in the loft design forum ('my Aussie loft pics') to see how I made my loft fronts out of 2 single plywood doors which hinge open on the side for cleaning.


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## Noahs helper

della said:


> On the colour topic, I followed the advice of one member from this site who said that he only ever painted his perches/shelves in pigeon-poo grey or off-white, that way after he had scraped the shelves each day they looked halfway decent. It is a good consideration, since pigeon-poo stains on dark colours make the loft look awful in no time. I saved the brighter, contrasting colours for the nest box fronts which don't get so much line of fire. For your nest-box front design, check out my recent pics in the loft design forum ('my Aussie loft pics') to see how I made my loft fronts out of 2 single plywood doors which hinge open on the side for cleaning.


I'll go check it out. Thanks!


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## Noahs helper

Hey guys, I have a landing board! 
A whole weekend and it's the only thing that I actually "completed", and am happy with! LOL 
I can't seem to get anywhere, because I keep tearing out and redoing.
Who was it that said this would be an easy project??? 
But I should be done by spring, I'm just not sure what year!
Jay3, I know your laughing...stop it.


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## Kevin

Nice! Landing board! That's progress!

LOL! Yeah Jay3 stop laughing!


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## Jay3

Lmao!!!!!!!!!!  he he he he he (stop it---I can't breath!!!!!!!) : he he he he he he he !!!!!


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## Kevin

Hey, I was wondering if you are going to put an aviary on your loft?


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> Hey, I was wondering if you are going to put an aviary on your loft?


Ugh yes, that would be in the plans. Best guesstimate...2020.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Lmao!!!!!!!!!!  he he he he he (stop it---I can't breath!!!!!!!) : he he he he he he he !!!!!


Jerk!
You'll see, just give me time! Well... alot of time. I'll do this, you'll see!


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## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> Nice! Landing board! That's progress!
> 
> LOL! Yeah Jay3 stop laughing!


Your so sweet... unlike somebody we both know!


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## Noahs helper

Need advice. I have SEVERAL places in the loft that I was going to add a shelf to, to create additional perches. Such as, along the walls and in the window sills. Is this a bad idea? Would they have a tendency to nest on them rather than the nestboxes? Help, I really wanted the additional shelves, especially in front of the windows but am having second thoughts!


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## Jay3

No. They won't nest on them instead of nest boxes. I have shelves and tables in front of the windows. They like them. Sometimes they will try to take over a particular shelf and guard it from the others, so put up a few. Some pigeons just don't play well with others.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> No. They won't nest on them instead of nest boxes. I have shelves and tables in front of the windows. They like them. Sometimes they will try to take over a particular shelf and guard it from the others, so put up a few. Some pigeons just don't play well with others.


Great, then I'll go ahead with the plan! Thanks


----------



## Mike McDonald

Just finished reading this entire thread and it has answered a lot of questions I've had for years. With no local source of information and only two small pamphlets on pigeons, real information has eluded me. Now I understand the whole nest front thing and more about loft design. I didn't do to badly, actually, when I built mine - an 8X10 building shared between my pigeons and my wife's laying hens...separation between. I bought what I thought was a set of nexting boxes from one of the suppliers, but looking at the demension specs in this thread, I guess what I bought were really perches with four sides. i noticed that the paper nest bowl did not fit in them very well and had to be cut down. By removing the dividers (making two in to one) and adding fronts, I think I can make them into better nesting boxes. My last flock did not reproduce well and that may be the reason...and I notice many times they preferred to nest on the floor or on more open platforms rather than using the nesting boxes. Should be interesting.

Thank you Noah's Helper for starting this Thread. As I've indicated in other posts, I have 20 young, white homers. Like you, I am only interested in having a nice flock to enjoy with no real interest in racing...but, you never know...!

Mike


----------



## Noahs helper

Mike McDonald said:


> Just finished reading this entire thread and it has answered a lot of questions I've had for years. With no local source of information and only two small pamphlets on pigeons, real information has eluded me. Now I understand the whole nest front thing and more about loft design. I didn't do to badly, actually, when I built mine - an 8X10 building shared between my pigeons and my wife's laying hens...separation between. I bought what I thought was a set of nexting boxes from one of the suppliers, but looking at the demension specs in this thread, I guess what I bought were really perches with four sides. i noticed that the paper nest bowl did not fit in them very well and had to be cut down. By removing the dividers (making two in to one) and adding fronts, I think I can make them into better nesting boxes. My last flock did not reproduce well and that may be the reason...and I notice many times they preferred to nest on the floor or on more open platforms rather than using the nesting boxes. Should be interesting.
> 
> Thank you Noah's Helper for starting this Thread. As I've indicated in other posts, I have 20 young, white homers. Like you, I am only interested in having a nice flock to enjoy with no real interest in racing...but, you never know...!
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike, I appreciate you saying that. I'm glad you found the thread helpful. I go back and read it often myself because there is so much to try to remember, it makes a great reference. As you can see, I started this adventure with NO knowledge, but the people here are great and so knowledgeable, they will answer all your questions (as I have many) and are so interested in your success. Welcome to PT, you will love it here!
And good luck with your birds!
Jan


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## Jay3

Hi Mike, and welcome. How deep are your boxes?


----------



## Guest

heres the foys link that you requested  hers the link to foys website http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/index.html
and heres the link to the disposible nestbowls
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/390.html


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## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> heres the foys link that you requested  hers the link to foys website http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/index.html
> and heres the link to the disposible nestbowls
> http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/390.html


Thanks! I have so many favorites and folders and pics stored everywhere. It's getting harder to remember where I put what. lol I like to refer back to this thread, so it makes a quick find for me. (and, I don't know how to post a link,yet)
Thanks again


----------



## Guest

lol glad I could help then .. but if you need to post a link you click that thingy that looks like a globe with a chainlink thru it and put the link in there lol ,not sure how to explain it more then that but hope that helps lol


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> lol glad I could help then .. but if you need to post a link you click that thingy that looks like a globe with a chainlink thru it and put the link in there lol ,not sure how to explain it more then that but hope that helps lol


Oh, okay I see it. Then you....copy and paste the link?


----------



## Guest

yes you past over the http:// even and it should post the link for you


----------



## Noahs helper

Does anyone know if a motion light would frighten away nocturnal predators?


----------



## Mike McDonald

NH - A motion light might chase them off the first few times, but they will get used to it pretty quickly and then ignore it.

Jay3 - My "nest boxes" are about 10 inches deep with similar height and width. I checked the catalog again and they are infact box perches. When they arrived I was confused that they had no back, now I understand. I added a back with a sheet of scrap paneling and my first flock nested in them pretty well, but later flocks have not. I'm going to try expanding them and see if that helps.

All - added more perches and a wall feeder this weekend. Also decided to change my feed from Game Bird Pellets to Pigeon mix or perhaps just add wild bird feed to the Game Bird pellets, what do you think?

Mike


----------



## Noahs helper

*perches*

Hi guys,
Another perch question. I'm really trying to design this loft to keep my birds as happy as possible. As I read, I see where pigeons like to have the "top perch". I will have several "shelves" at mid and lower loft level, but I have a large wall that I want to put "individual" perches on. Would I be better off to install these perches all at the same height so that everyone is on the top perch? If so, how far apart should I space them?
If "top perch" only applies to nestboxes...then I apologize for the stupid question.


----------



## Jay3

Install them at all different levels. Top birds will try to take top perches. Let them have it. You should have more perches than you have birds so that they have choices. My birds always take the top perches and halfway down. Most don't claim the lower ones, as there are enough to go around, but they use them. Check out different peoples lofts. Some have the perches high, and some have them run from top to bottom. There's no right or wrong way. Put them where you want them, as long as they are out of drafts. They'll use what you give them. Design the loft to what YOU want. The birds will make themselves at home in it. Some say put them a foot apart if they run parellel to each other. Some say more. When I have 2 vertical rows of perches, I stagger mine, as some of my birds would be pecking at their neighbor. Do it the way you want it done.


----------



## Noahs helper

*trap door*

Well everyone, I have FINALLY finished the trap... believe it or not. I wanted it built within the slats without weakening them,and didn't want to change the looks of the building. So this is what I came up with. It's not great, but I think it will work and it is not very noticable when closed. And yes Jay3, it will even keep out bears as you can see from the photo! LOL The pics are in my "Inside Scoop" album, if you care to take a look and give me your opinions.


----------



## Kevin

Very creative! Your off to a really, really good start! I'm excited for you.
What a splendid job!


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## Guest

you might wanna make your landing board a little bigger as theres no real room for a group of pigeons to land on there ..


----------



## Noahs helper

Kevin said:


> Very creative! Your off to a really, really good start! I'm excited for you.
> What a splendid job!


Thanks Kevin. Because of the fact that it is in the slatted side, I had to make some "unusual" adjustments! But I think it will serve the purpose. We'll see!


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> you might wanna make your landing board a little bigger as theres no real room for a group of pigeons to land on there ..


 Since I'm only starting out with 4 to 6 birds, I thought 36 x 10 would be okay for now. If not, I can always overlay a wider board!?!


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## Jay3

Looks really nice. Love the way you concealed it. You're pretty handy.


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Since I'm only starting out with 4 to 6 birds, I thought 36 x 10 would be okay for now. If not, I can always overlay a wider board!?!


if it was 36 inches outward and not long it would be much better.... just picture this .. a hawk in pursuit and they are all scrambling to get in all at once and cant becuz they only have ten inches of board to hang onto as they all are trying to bunch up into the drop at once , the hawk hits and flys off with one of your babys ... trust me it only takes less the a second to happen  more landing board can save their lives ... just a thought from experiance


----------



## Jay3

Ya know Jan, he's right. You're just thinking about flying them, and then they take turns landing to come in. But if there was a hawk or something to panic them, and they all rushed at once to get in..................................

They would be banging into each other, and trying to reach safety. Kinda like people trying to get out of a burning building. He's got a good point there. Might as well extend it now.


----------



## Guest

trust me it happens at my loft more times then I would like it too and they all bolt in at once scrambling to get in like a stampede of wildabeast crossing a river with crocks in tow


----------



## Jay3

Well now that's a vivid image. I can see your point. It makes sense. That's why it's nice to get input from people with experience. You think of things that we may not think about.


----------



## Noahs helper

*landing board*



LokotaLoft said:


> if it was 36 inches outward and not long it would be much better.... just picture this .. a hawk in pursuit and they are all scrambling to get in all at once and cant becuz they only have ten inches of board to hang onto as they all are trying to bunch up into the drop at once , the hawk hits and flys off with one of your babys ... trust me it only takes less the a second to happen  more landing board can save their lives ... just a thought from experiance


Okay, okay, I get the point! You guys are creeping me out! LOL
Seriously, I will get busy and extend it. How wide should I make it? 
And thanks Lokota, for the insite, this is exactly why I am posting my progress and asking for opinions!


----------



## Jay3

It doesn't need to be any wider, just longer.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> It doesn't need to be any wider, just longer.


You know what I meant!


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, okay, I get the point! You guys are creeping me out! LOL
> Seriously, I will get busy and extend it. How wide should I make it?
> And thanks Lokota, for the insite, this is exactly why I am posting my progress and asking for opinions!


I think at least a foot and half out from the drop hole would be lots better but personally I would make it at least 2 feet deep myself ..you could even make it a fold down landing board if your trying to conceil it


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> I think at least a foot and half out from the drop hole would be lots better but personally I would make it at least 2 feet deep myself ..you could even make it a fold down landing board if your trying to conceil it


Okay...2 feet is not bad, I was hoping you were exagerating the 3 feet. I think I might hinge it so it will fold up. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Guest

well I was exagerating cuz to be honest mine is about 18 inches wide from the bobs outward but I do have two of them lol but its true they do try to pile thru when a hawk makes a hit on them, then its a free for all, of coures I do fly about 75 birds thou


----------



## Noahs helper

*nest box fronts*

Okay everybody I need advice, I am going to "attempt" to make my first nest box front tomorrow. What is the maximum width between the post/dowels???


----------



## Big T

2 inches between dowels, also ensure the bottom is at lease an inch and half high, so when babies fall out of the nest they cannot fall out of the nest box. Door is ten inches tall and four inches wide.


----------



## Noahs helper

Big T said:


> 2 inches between dowels, also ensure the bottom is at lease an inch and half high, so when babies fall out of the nest they cannot fall out of the nest box. Door is ten inches tall and four inches wide.


Thanks, I appreciate the info!


----------



## Jay3

How's it going with the boxes?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> How's it going with the boxes?


Several hours into the first design...scrapped.
Second day on second design....pretty happy with it, but still a ways to go! You know me...I like "different"!
After working "ALL" day yesterday, mother says... I hope you only need a couple of those!
You should have seen the look on her face when I said "I'm aiming for 10" LOL


----------



## almondman

Welcome to PT. I think you'll really like it. You mentioned that this is an old tool shed. If it already has a floor you should check it for any oil/chemical stains. Also for any rodent holes. If found, you'll need to address the problems before putting birds in.


----------



## Jay3

almondman said:


> Welcome to PT. I think you'll really like it. You mentioned that this is an old tool shed. If it already has a floor you should check it for any oil/chemical stains. Also for any rodent holes. If found, you'll need to address the problems before putting birds in.


She's going to be putting in a new floor. And she's aiming at making this thing so tight, that an ant shouldn't be able to get in. LOL.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> She's going to be putting in a new floor. And she's aiming at making this thing so tight, that an ant shouldn't be able to get in. LOL.


LOl LOL LOL
Yep, you know me!


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> LOl LOL LOL
> Yep, you know me!


Getting to.


----------



## Guest

its all about the journey  then you can enjoy the ride


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> its all about the journey  then you can enjoy the ride


Yep, but some days it seems like the journey is never going to end!
These nestbox fronts are like trying to nail Tinker Toys together!!!  LOL


----------



## Noahs helper

*first nextbox*

Okay, I have finished my first nestbox front and posted a pic in the album. Yes, I know it is different, but I plan to spend lots of time in the loft with my birds and wanted to make it enjoyable.
It's not finished, but this is a preview!


----------



## Kevin

WOW! That's very creative~! Great job!


----------



## Jay3

Now that is just adorable! I can hardly wait to see the next one. Love it.


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, I have finished my first nestbox front and posted a pic in the album. Yes, I know it is different, but I plan to spend lots of time in the loft with my birds and wanted to make it enjoyable.
> It's not finished, but this is a preview!


that is adorably adorable....but do you think the door is wide enough?, they need to not touch the bird when it goes in and out...just a thought. not sure of the measurement just looks narrow in the pic.


----------



## Jay3

spirit wings said:


> that is adorably adorable....but do you think the door is wide enough, they need to not touch the bird when it goes in and out...just a thought. not sure of the measurement just looks narrow in the pic.


Spiritwings. I thought the same thing, but she said they were 4 inches wide. I think it was Big T told her four inches, so that's what she did. They do look narrow in the picture. I probably would have done 5 inches.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Spiritwings. I thought the same thing, but she said they were 4 inches wide. I think it was Big T told her four inches, so that's what she did. They do look narrow in the picture. I probably would have done 5 inches.


YES...it's BIGT'S fault!!!
Just kidding BigT, I have a very warped sense of humor!
Thanks Spiritwings, I appreciate the compliment. I was afraid you all would think me nuts for making them this way. Well...I am nuts, but you know what I mean. The doors are 4 x 10 and yes they do look a little smaller in the pics. I'm starting another one tomorrow...should I make them larger?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Now that is just adorable! I can hardly wait to see the next one. Love it.


Okay, pic of second one posted! Hope ya like it!


----------



## Guest

very nice work you do there , like they say patience is a virtue so keep taking your time and good things(happy birdies) will come your way


----------



## Jay3

I think that one is even cuter than the first one. They're amazing. Your loft is going to be like a doll house. You have a lot more patience than I do. 
Great job!


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> very nice work you do there , like they say patience is a virtue so keep taking your time and good things(happy birdies) will come your way


Thanks Lokota, I appreciate the encouragement!


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> I think that one is even cuter than the first one. They're amazing. Your loft is going to be like a doll house. You have a lot more patience than I do.
> Great job!


LOL... Well since dollhouses are the only thing I know how to build, I figured I may as well apply some of those ideas to try to create a loft! It's different, but it works for me because this is the kind of stuff that I love to do!


----------



## spirit wings

again adorably adorable.....but STOP! I went out and measured my openings and they are 9 inches wide. if you are going to have homers, 4 inches is not going to be usable, they would have to squeeze in there, I just don't see them doing that. sorry, but had to let you know incase you have to start over or something.


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> again adorably adorable.....but STOP! I went out and measured my openings and they are 9 inches wide. if you are going to have homers, 4 inches is not going to be usable, they would have to squeeze in there, I just don't see them doing that. sorry, but had to let you know incase you have to start over or something.


Oh no, please don't be sorry. I appreciate the advice! I will adjust these two and make the rest wider.
Thanks
Jan


----------



## Jay3

Jan, the links don't work for me. Did you post the pictures on your page?

Nope. You didn't. I checked.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Jan, the links don't work for me. Did you post the pictures on your page?





I figured it out, but the picture is huge! Don't know how to make it smaller.


----------



## Noahs helper

*nestboxes*

Here are the 6 "installed" boxes, doors were adjusted to 6 x 10.
Yes they look like a box of crayons....but I love color.
Painting not completed, had to move on to something else or I'll never get done!


----------



## c.hert

You new people must have a lot of time on your hands----Its very beautiful---thanks for sharing.......c.hert


----------



## Noahs helper

c.hert said:


> You new people must have a lot of time on your hands----Its very beautiful---thanks for sharing.......c.hert


Thank you I appreciate the compliment, but I have been working on this loft since August.


----------



## Jay3

What............no doorbells or front lawns?


----------



## Jay3

Jay, they're very cute. You're going o hate it when the birds get them dirty. But very cute.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Jay, they're very cute. You're going o hate it when the birds get them dirty. But very cute.



Awwww shucks, if it gets too bad...a coat of white paint will take care of it! lol


----------



## Jay3

I don't really think it'll get that bad. Just the perches. Lots of work put into them, now get that floor done and get the birds in there.


----------



## Noahs helper

Okay, I'm at the "point of no return" on the aviary. Now's the last chance to get it right before I close it in this weekend. So all input is appreciated. I have the door large enough for the bath tray... perches on the post...hardare cloth on floor and sides (and maybe screen on top of that for mosquitos). Is there anything else that I need to consider?
Also, I have seen pictures with bricks on aviary and cage floors...what exactly are they for?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> I don't really think it'll get that bad. Just the perches. Lots of work put into them, now get that floor done and get the birds in there.


Yes MAMA! ROFL


----------



## Jay3

Gives them something to perch on that helps to wear their nails down.


----------



## Noahs helper

Speaking of floor...I think I may have figured out a way that I can do it "myself"! Not positive yet, but I think it just may work.


----------



## c.hert

Is there a picture of your loft somewhere on this thread that I cannot find and what post is it?? c.hert


----------



## Noahs helper

c.hert said:


> Is there a picture of your loft somewhere on this thread that I cannot find and what post is it?? c.hert


Yes, there are albums on my profile page. It's an old tool shed being converted into a loft.


----------



## c.hert

I took a look at it pretty good but I bet it is better now and thanks for sharing with your album--interested in the ventilation system that you have in your loft--those windows are unique with them closing from the inside does it get wet inside or is it pretty tight. I am just responding to your question of on post 168 and the floors of hard wire how are you going to clean it out or do you have some sort of slider sliding to the outside and of course some electricity to think about before you past the period of no return..Nice loft I like it and its pretty and airy too..Thanks for sharing....c.hert


----------



## Noahs helper

c.hert said:


> I took a look at it pretty good but I bet it is better now and thanks for sharing with your album--interested in the ventilation system that you have in your loft--those windows are unique with them closing from the inside does it get wet inside or is it pretty tight. I am just responding to your question of on post 168 and the floors of hard wire how are you going to clean it out or do you have some sort of slider sliding to the outside and of course some electricity to think about before you past the period of no return..Nice loft I like it and its pretty and airy too..Thanks for sharing....c.hert


Not sure of your questions if related to aviary or loft.
Loft:
Slatted area will be covered in cold weather. Loft always dry. Have a couple of vents near floor and a hardware cloth window on opposite wall. Floor will be solid wood. Has lighting and electrical outlets.
Aviary:
Hardware cloth floor and sides with door underneath for cleaning. no electrical. The entry door opens from inside loft. 
Hope this gives a better picture.


----------



## c.hert

Yes it does thank you...c.hert


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Gives them something to perch on that helps to wear their nails down.


Thank you.


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Here are the 6 "installed" boxes, doors were adjusted to 6 x 10.
> Yes they look like a box of crayons....but I love color.
> Painting not completed, had to move on to something else or I'll never get done!


I think when you build it your own way you cant go wrong and it will keep it going when all is said and done in the end of what you want to accomplish with your loft and birds


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> I think when you build it your own way you cant go wrong and it will keep it going when all is said and done in the end of what you want to accomplish with your loft and birds


Yeah, I know I'm taking entirely too long, but I really want to be happy with it before I get my birds. Your right, I feel like it will be worth the wait if I am truely happy with the end results. I started this project almost a year ago with a vision of exactly what I wanted and am seeing it thru...just never thought it would take this long! lol


----------



## Noahs helper

*aviary finally finished*

View attachment 15547


1/2 hardware cloth and sceeter screening and I still found a hornet in it! 
Is there no way to keep EVERYTHING out???


----------



## Jay3

That is really cute. Kinda goes with the nest boxes. Now all we need to do is to get you some lace curtains. LOL.


----------



## Jay3

You do realize though, that that screening will cut out the suns rays that you want them to get.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> You do realize though, that that screening will cut out the suns rays that you want them to get.


It doesn't block it that much. Besides, if you could see the mosquito haven that the church has created next door...I think you would agree that the pigeons would prefer a little less sun.


----------



## Noahs helper

*loft question*

Okay, it's a stupid question...but important to me. Can a pigeon land on a 4" space?
I have 4" deep boards between 22" wall studs (like shelves) in a space 14" high. Want to know if they could serve as additional perches?


----------



## Wingsonfire

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, it's a stupid question...but important to me. Can a pigeon land on a 4" space?
> I have 4" deep boards between 22" wall studs (like shelves) in a space 14" high. Want to know if they could serve as additional perches?


Sure they can no problem.


----------



## The_Dirteeone

I will say this friend,I also wanted a "few breeders",and ended up with 8 hens and 8 cocks,and I will defenitely have TOOOOOO many babies!!! I didnt think about seperation untill I realized how fast and reproductive they were.So if you are smart ,dont get too many like I did,unless you are gonna be able to increase loft size.I have 3 lofts now and thank the lord I had the room to expand.Good luck,and welcome!Oh and I am also a newbie,but have raised cockatiels for years,which helps a little.Pigeons are much more fun to me.


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, it's a stupid question...but important to me. Can a pigeon land on a 4" space?
> I have 4" deep boards between 22" wall studs (like shelves) in a space 14" high. Want to know if they could serve as additional perches?


I would attach wider boards to the studs for extra perching shelves. They can't even turn around on something like that. Why not use brackets and run a shelf along the wall there?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> I would attach wider boards to the studs for extra perching shelves. They can't even turn around on something like that. Why not use brackets and run a shelf along the wall there?


Okay, I made them 7.5", now they can dance if they want to!


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, I made them 7.5", now they can dance if they want to!



YAY! They'll love them.


----------



## spirit wings

just saw the aviary... swa-eeeet! now I want to see some birds in that thing... it's been long enough!


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> just saw the aviary... swa-eeeet! now I want to see some birds in that thing... it's been long enough!


Now Spirit... your beginning to sound like Jay! ROFL
I know, I missed my spring deadline, but I will be done by the first of July, for sure. I'm so anxious too, yes it has been looong enough. Thanks for the compliment, glad you like the aviary.


----------



## Jay3

Now is that nice?


----------



## Guest

looking good but surely empty


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Now is that nice?


Figured that would ruffle your feathers! Baaahaaaahaaaa!


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> looking good but surely empty


Not you too!?! LOL
But hey Lokota, I have a 30" landing board now thanks to your insight! With a scalloped edge to boot! I don't know what I wasn't thinking...I wouldn't have even been able to put a cage on the thing for trap training! Thanks much for your input! Whatcha think?


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Not you too!?! LOL
> But hey Lokota, I have a 30" landing board now thanks to your insight! With a scalloped edge to boot! I don't know what I wasn't thinking...I wouldn't have even been able to put a cage on the thing for trap training! Thanks much for your input! Whatcha think?


 that totally looks like a pigeon paradise to me  you seem to have got it covered from every angle and if you lived closer I would even fill it up for you at no charge  great work there so keep it up ,cant wait for you to fill it with some birds 

P.S. you are so gonna be thrilled when you get those new birds I promise you!!


----------



## Noahs helper

*colored snap-on bands needed*

Since I am going to have only white homers...I would like to be able to tell them apart. So I need 1 snap band of each color that I can find. I don't want to order 25 of each, so does anyone have colored snap bands (no numbers, I want my ph# on them) that I can buy 1 of each color from?


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Since I am going to have only white homers...I would like to be able to tell them apart. So I need 1 snap band of each color that I can find. I don't want to order 25 of each, so does anyone have colored snap bands (no numbers, I want my ph# on them) that I can buy 1 of each color from?


oh you are asking alot if you want one of each color with your info on it band, the best you can prolly do is get one color of your home info bands and then buy 10 bands each of a color of just the color bands or just buy the color bands and then buy some kind of home info sticker to put onto your color bands


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> that totally looks like a pigeon paradise to me  you seem to have got it covered from every angle and if you lived closer I would even fill it up for you at no charge  great work there so keep it up ,cant wait for you to fill it with some birds
> 
> P.S. you are so gonna be thrilled when you get those new birds I promise you!!


Thanks Lokota, your a sweetheart,you don't know how much I appreciate you saying that...truely. We have worked so hard on this thing for so long that yesterday we were so exhausted and dying of heat stroke that I sat down on the floor, looked at my dad and said "I just hope these birds are worth it", " I really hope that I will enjoy this hobby as much as I think I will". LOL So just the thought of birds...got me going again! Can't wait to see them in there I know I am going to LOVE it!


----------



## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> oh you are asking alot if you want one of each color with your info on it band, the best you can prolly do is get one color of your home info bands and then buy 10 bands each of a color of just the color bands or just buy the color bands and then buy some kind of home info sticker to put onto your color bands


Oh no no, I just want plain colored bands...I'm going to figure out a way to put my number on them myself. Already have a couple of ideas how to do it.


----------



## Guest

Noahs helper said:


> Oh no no, I just want plain colored bands...I'm going to figure out a way to put my number on them myself. Already have a couple of ideas how to do it.


 at foys http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/bands.html Im pretty sure that you can buy any color combo as long as it is 50 bands in total, meaning you can pick out any of the colors they offer in a lump sum of 50 bands which doesnt cost to much and shipping is only $3.00 for shipping if bands are all that you order , you might want to call them to be sure thou


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Oh no no, I just want plain colored bands...I'm going to figure out a way to put my number on them myself. Already have a couple of ideas how to do it.


your birds should have a band on them already when you buy them, you use the number on the band to identify the bird...just wright the numbers down, later when they pair off and nest you can put a snap on, on the other leg, blue for a cock and a pink one for a hen. you will want to know that more than giving a name. I orderd custom snap ons with my phone # on them and Iam very happy with them, worth every penny., but can be done with the band stickers. they do not always have all the colors availible, and if you end up breeding some young you might run out of colors, then they have no color, except what is on the seemless band you put on when a baby. pigeons come and go..so I don't think the everyone with a color is going to work...better just to identify cock and hen and have the number of their seemless written down also.


----------



## Guest

spirit wings said:


> your birds should have a band on them already when you buy them, you use the number on the band to identify the bird...just wright the numbers down, later when they pair off and nest you can put a snap on, on the other leg, blue for a cock and a pink one for a hen. you will want to know that more than giving a name. I orderd custom snap ons with my phone # on them and Iam very happy with them, worth every penny., but can be done with the band stickers. they do not always have all the colors availible, and if you end up breeding some young you might run out of colors, then they have no color, except what is on the seemless band you put on when a baby. pigeons come and go..so I don't think the everyone with a color is going to work...better just to identify cock and hen and have the number of their seemless written down also.


I dont think they are planning to breed a whole lot there so they could do a color sequence every year up to a certain point since the seamless bands are a different color every year


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

I put a numbered band solid on one leg and a phone number snap on band on the other leg.


----------



## Noahs helper

*snap-on colored bands*



spirit wings said:


> your birds should have a band on them already when you buy them, you use the number on the band to identify the bird...just wright the numbers down, later when they pair off and nest you can put a snap on, on the other leg, blue for a cock and a pink one for a hen. you will want to know that more than giving a name. I orderd custom snap ons with my phone # on them and Iam very happy with them, worth every penny., but can be done with the band stickers. they do not always have all the colors availible, and if you end up breeding some young you might run out of colors, then they have no color, except what is on the seemless band you put on when a baby. pigeons come and go..so I don't think the everyone with a color is going to work...better just to identify cock and hen and have the number of their seemless written down also.


Thanks guys, you all bring up good points. This is where I was going with the color code idea for a "small amount" of birds and only needing 1 of each color. Once they pair and I know cock from hen...I would like to give them names. Odd I guess, but that's just me. lol Anyway my system is this...cocks - dark / hens-light corresponding colors.
example
George Martha
Romeo Juliet 
Mike Sally 

and stickers or ink to add the ph# to them.
And these are just the first names that popped into my head. LOL


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

You can buy phone number bands from the catalogs I have 100. You can buy rape around band in any collar they are fairly cheep.


----------



## Jay3

Shadybug Lofts said:


> You can buy phone number bands from the catalogs I have 100. You can buy rape around band in any collar they are fairly cheep.


But wouldn't you have to buy them in one color?


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Thanks guys, you all bring up good points. This is where I was going with the color code idea for a "small amount" of birds and only needing 1 of each color. Once they pair and I know cock from hen...I would like to give them names. Odd I guess, but that's just me. lol Anyway my system is this...cocks - dark / hens-light corresponding colors.
> example
> George Martha
> Romeo Juliet
> Mike Sally
> 
> and stickers or ink to add the ph# to them.
> And these are just the first names that popped into my head. LOL


That is a good idea, the only thing is if you look at the supply sight, it says check for color availiblity, sometimes they do not have all the colors, so a few birds may not get a band, or then you would have to buy a same color for a few to beable to get your phone # on them, which is the most important thing...then you may have serveral with the same colors, then the hen, cock indentifiation goes out the window, unless you really watch them then you would know who is who, but you can do that with no band at all..lol.. and sometimes you may not like a type of snap on and want to go with one that opens better with a little hinge, that gurantees they stay on the bird (which Im getting ready to buy by the way) because some of the snap ons are hard to get on and sometimes come off, but these new ones only have a choice of a few colors.. but, to begin with you can try it and see how you like it, I just perfer to know cock from hen just from eyesight, mine all have the same name... pretty bird...lol...


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

If you could get white ones couldn't you collar them with sharpie pens there permanent. I have never had a snap on band come off. You could do each pair the same number Buy 2 sets 1 to 20


----------



## spirit wings

Shadybug Lofts said:


> If you could get white ones couldn't you collar them with sharpie pens there permanent. I have never had a snap on band come off. You could do each pair the same number Buy 2 sets 1 to 20


sharpie color does wash off after awhile, esp if you use the 20 mule team borax for their bath water... but it is worth a try, just will have to remark every now and then.. good idea. or if she got the numberd color bands, she could go by the numbers and not just the colors, example she could have blue # 1 and blue #2 etc... and yellow # what ever and so on... but if their seemless bands already have numbers on them, then why give them another? soooo color is the thing she wants.. just have to hope there are enough in stock to choose from to cover all 10 birds or 11 or 12 what ever she ends up with at any given time... if she had less than 10 prolly would not have to worry about having enough different colors to go around. but we all know how once you have pigeons and say you will only have 10..... hahahahhahha!...lol....


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

If you have all your birds in the same loft. They may not stay paired with the same birds So you may have birds that you think are paired but are cheating on each other so then colored bands would be useless. I got two different colored bands a while back for when I put them in the new loft. I will put one color on the cocks and another on the hens. You give me an idea I have solid bands from past years I think I will try to color. I will let you know If I figure something out.


----------



## Jay3

Shadybug Lofts said:


> If you could get white ones couldn't you collar them with sharpie pens there permanent. I have never had a snap on band come off. You could do each pair the same number Buy 2 sets 1 to 20


That's probably the best idea. Just renew the color every now and then. That, or really get to know your birds. With all white birds, I don't think you can ever really tell them all apart all that well.


----------



## Matt Bell

Sure ya can, each bird has different personalities just like people. After a couple weeks you can tell them apart real easily.


----------



## Jay3

Matt Bell said:


> Sure ya can, each bird has different personalities just like people. After a couple weeks you can tell them apart real easily.


Well all mine have different personalities too, and often, just by what they do and how they react, I could tell them with my eyes closed. But not always. 
If they all were pretty much identical, I'd be hard pressed at times to know who was who.


----------



## Guest

spirit wings said:


> sharpie color does wash off after awhile, esp if you use the 20 mule team borax for their bath water... but it is worth a try, just will have to remark every now and then.. good idea. or if she got the numberd color bands, she could go by the numbers and not just the colors, example she could have blue # 1 and blue #2 etc... and yellow # what ever and so on... but if their seemless bands already have numbers on them, then why give them another? soooo color is the thing she wants.. just have to hope there are enough in stock to choose from to cover all 10 birds or 11 or 12 what ever she ends up with at any given time... if she had less than 10 prolly would not have to worry about having enough different colors to go around. but we all know how once you have pigeons and say you will only have 10..... hahahahhahha!...lol....


 the problem is you are assuming she wont have all the colors availible to her but the fact is she most likely will have that option when ordering , I myself have never had a problem getting all the colors availible I have wanted and I too band the pairs with the same color being one pair blue one pink another yellow , males from females are usually easy to distinguish apart ,number bands are great too all you have to do is keep records of the who is who but for the most part unless you have over 50 birds you will figgure something out lol you are all thinking way to much over this when Im guessing noah is thinking of keeping birds in smaller terms ... I do think you should keep records and use either IF or AU bands so you will have individual numbers and year colors for each bird that you have born inside your loft year to year outside of the pairs that you are breeding from ..its alot easier then you think once you get your system in check


----------



## Guest

Shadybug Lofts said:


> If you have all your birds in the same loft. They may not stay paired with the same birds So you may have birds that you think are paired but are cheating on each other so then colored bands would be useless. I got two different colored bands a while back for when I put them in the new loft. I will put one color on the cocks and another on the hens. You give me an idea I have solid bands from past years I think I will try to color. I will let you know If I figure something out.


 in my prisoner breeding loft all my pairs are still the same to this day for the last 5 years as far as my pairs go so its not like males are changing females yearly is a real common occurance unless one of your birds dies.. i have had that happen with other birds but its not all that common in a loft that males and females are even


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

I have pedigree foundation birds and I put rollers in with then That was a big mistake and I cant wait to get the out. I have not had any problems with the breeders for two years I had one pair that was my main producers now I had one baby tramped to death I get 4 eggs in one nest or 3 in a nest I have one now that had 4 eggs and only one hatched. Anyway the bests pair I have got split up by a roller and now my best hen and a roller hatched that egg out of the 4 when that little roller sets on 4 eggs half of them stick out under her that's probably why they don't hatch.


----------



## Guest

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I have pedigree foundation birds and I put rollers in with then That was a big mistake and I cant wait to get the out. I have not had any problems with the breeders for two years I had one pair that was my main producers now I had one baby tramped to death I get 4 eggs in one nest or 3 in a nest I have one now that had 4 eggs and only one hatched. Anyway the bests pair I have got split up by a roller and now my best hen and a roller hatched that egg out of the 4 when that little roller sets on 4 eggs half of them stick out under her that's probably why they don't hatch.


this sounds like you have a pair of hens mated up there so that might explain why you are getting 4 eggs in the nestbox . just my two cents


----------



## spirit wings

LokotaLoft said:


> the problem is you are assuming she wont have all the colors availible to her but the fact is she most likely will have that option when ordering , I myself have never had a problem getting all the colors availible I have wanted and I too band the pairs with the same color being one pair blue one pink another yellow , males from females are usually easy to distinguish apart ,number bands are great too all you have to do is keep records of the who is who but for the most part unless you have over 50 birds you will figgure something out lol you are all thinking way to much over this when Im guessing noah is thinking of keeping birds in smaller terms ... I do think you should keep records and use either IF or AU bands so you will have individual numbers and year colors for each bird that you have born inside your loft year to year outside of the pairs that you are breeding from ..its alot easier then you think once you get your system in check



yes, that is what I was assuming..lol... good to know they have all the colors for you.. I have had a different experience and they were out of the color I wanted so I had to get bright pink instead of yellow I think it was.. I WAS thinking way too much, but I was bored at the time and just chating about it is fun for me, and really wanted to make this thread longer than it already is....hahahahaha!... any whoooooo, banding the pairs with the same color is a good idea! glad you chimed in.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

LokotaLoft said:


> this sounds like you have a pair of hens mated up there so that might explain why you are getting 4 eggs in the nestbox . just my two cents


Now that you said that I think your right That roller is a hen. Man I feel stupid.


----------



## Guest

spirit wings said:


> yes, that is what I was assuming..lol... good to know they have all the colors for you.. I have had a different experience and they were out of the color I wanted so I had to get bright pink instead of yellow I think it was.. I WAS thinking way too much, but I was bored at the time and just chating about it is fun for me, and really wanted to make this thread longer than it already is....hahahahaha!... any whoooooo, banding the pairs with the same color is a good idea! glad you chimed in.


hmm your right this thread could be longer and more informative so anyone with any additional opinions will help especially with the color bands or ways of recognizing one bird from another in ones loft lol every bit helps


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## Guest

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Now that you said that I think your right That roller is a hen. Man I feel stupid.


dont feel stupid I have hen pairs ,cock pairs and trios in my loft lol pigeons are a very colorful crowd


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## Shadybug Lofts

About colored bands. I just got back from a pigeon show and I saw some of the birds had colored plastic tie straps on their leg so the could tell there birds from others. They just put them on loose and cut the end off flush. I know you can get them in assorted colors.


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## Noahs helper

*Cottage Landing finally finished*

Here's an example of what the finished product looks like! YES I'm nuts...but happy with it. Thank you everyone for all your help and great advise along the way.


----------



## Noahs helper

*my new babies*

And here is a picture of my adorable babies! Thank you Tony for helping me and trusting me with these beautiful birds!!!


----------



## Charis

LOL...won't look like that for long, once the pigeons arrive. Very cute though.


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## Charis

Oh...I see the pigeons have arrived.


----------



## Jay3

And you laughed at my curtains? LOL. Jan, the dollhouses, I mean nest boxes, are adorable. The birds are beautiful. I know you are going to enjoy them. They look so little next to the bath. So cute.


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## spirit wings

finally! geesh!.. no just kidding, it looks cozy and storybook like.. where are the perches?, we need more pics after the pigeons christen it properly.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

It look very nice but you know all that's going to get pooped on and poop stains are really hard to get off. LOL


----------



## Jay3

spirit wings said:


> finally! geesh!.. no just kidding, it looks cozy and storybook like.. where are the perches?, *we need more pics after the pigeons christen it properly. *






Yes, we'll have to see more pictures then.
There are perches on the other wall.


----------



## suepahfly

that's just too funny. yep, won't look like that long


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## Shadybug Lofts

I just got a great idea diapers for pigeons. LOL


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## Noahs helper

suepahfly said:


> that's just too funny. yep, won't look like that long


Yes guys I knew you all would get your laughs...and your absolutely right...it won't look like that for long! LOL But like I said if it gets too bad...a can of paint will help tremendously! lol But I just had to do it this way first to see how it would look because with all white birds...I needed some color! LOL Once the poop is scraped what kind of cleaner do you all use to clean up?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> And you laughed at my curtains? LOL. Jan, the dollhouses, I mean nest boxes, are adorable. The birds are beautiful. I know you are going to enjoy them. They look so little next to the bath. So cute.


I overheard Bert telling Ernie..."Tony was worried about Aries and the curtains...what has he done to us?" rofl


----------



## Action

*Wow!*

Now that is 1 of a kind. Very nice job-Your birds should love to come home.
Jack


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## Shadybug Lofts

When i clean anything like perches and things I use a brush and the rinse well. It cuts the poop pretty good.


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## Jay3

Jan, once the birds are in, it's kinda hard to paint it. So you'll just have to live with whatever decorations they add. LOL.


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Jan, once the birds are in, it's kinda hard to paint it. So you'll just have to live with whatever decorations they add. LOL.


Yeah your right. But red with black polka dots aren't bad! rofl


----------



## Noahs helper

Shadybug Lofts said:


> When i clean anything like perches and things I use pinesol disinfectant a brush and the rinse well. It cuts the poop pretty good.


Thanks I'll give it a try!


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## Noahs helper

Jay I'll change the names to protect the innocent...Bertha and Ernie...how's that? LOL
Just kidding Jay I'm not naming them Bert and Ernie. And for now they are just baby and baby. LOL


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## spirit wings

DO NOT USE PINE-SOL IN YOUR LOFT!, BIRDS ARE SENSITVE TO AIRBORNE FUMES AND PINE-SOL IS TOXIC, ANYTHING WITH PHENOL DERIVATIVES DO NOT USE AROUND BIRDS.

nolvassan is one that I use in the loft


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## Shadybug Lofts

I changed that post I dont want anyone's birds hurt. I have used it for 3 years but not in the loft just in the aviary and on the things i take out of the loft and i rinse everything good and the birds are not in the aviary when i do it.


----------



## spirit wings

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I changed that post I dont want anyone's birds hurt. I have used it for 3 years but not in the loft just in the aviary and on the things i take out of the loft and i rinse everything good and the birds are not in the aviary when i do it.


oh, thats good, I still would becareful with it, esp if you use it with drinkers..it can be hard to rinse it completely away... I would just in case change to a different cleaner.. nolvassan it great as you can use it also to clean wounds on the birds themselves and near or on babies as well.. another cleaner that I just learned of from our wonderful Tressa here, is basicH or basicH2 I think they call it.. it is a NONtoxic wonder cleaner from the sounds of it, Im going to order some today actually... perhaps Treesa can tell more about it. I have also used oxine and liked it, just have not got around to buying more.


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> oh, thats good, I still would becareful with it, esp if you use it with drinkers..it can be hard to rinse it completely away... I would just in case change to a different cleaner.. nolvassan it great as you can use it also to clean wounds on the birds themselves and near or on babies as well.. another cleaner that I just learned of from our wonderful Tressa here, is basicH or basicH2 I think they call it.. it is a NONtoxic wonder cleaner from the sounds of it, Im going to order some today actually... perhaps Treesa can tell more about it. I have also used oxine and liked it, just have not got around to buying more.


I wondered about the strong odor!?! I can't stand the smell of those cleaners.
Spirit, where do you get yours from?


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> I wondered about the strong odor!?! I can't stand the smell of those cleaners.
> Spirit, where do you get yours from?


I get both the nolvassan and oxine from foy's, you have to scroll down to cleaners etc..

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/index.html

and here is the basicH2

http://www.shaklee.com/00015.html


----------



## Noahs helper

*Oh happy day...they don't mind color!*

Better picture of the babies... on a colorful shelf they are using today!


----------



## Jay3

spirit wings said:


> I get both the nolvassan and oxine from foy's, you have to scroll down to cleaners etc..
> 
> http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/index.html
> 
> and here is the basicH2
> 
> http://www.shaklee.com/00015.html


I've wanted to try the Nolvasan but never have. How strong is the smell of it?


----------



## spirit wings

Jay3 said:


> I've wanted to try the Nolvasan but never have. How strong is the smell of it?


it is not strong, smells like quickclean waterless shampoo, for when you can not get a pet wet..probably is made with nolvassan...lol.., we use it here at the vet for ear cleaning, wound cleaning, mostly..I like the dual purpose as said before, you can clean everything with it, poopie butts, wounds, hand feeding formula from babies... I used it to soak a prolapsed chicken hen to clean her um "area"..worked well.. clean dishes, nest boxes, and you can even put a bit in the drinking water, to combat bacteria..


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## Shadybug Lofts

Spirit wings are you a vet or vet tech?


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## spirit wings

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Spirit wings are you a vet or vet tech?


I have been a tech, but make more money being a professional all breed dog groomer at an animal hosiptal and wellness center...doing it 20 years now..it is nice I can get products through them..


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

Just wondering my daughter is a vet tech at the Virginia tech equine center in Leesburg Virginia and works part time at a small animal, bird and reptile practice there and here where i live on the weekends. My sister is a vet tech in the same practice here where i live. I dont have any problem getting what i need. My daughter just moved into a supervisory position and is doing very well now.


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## Noahs helper

*Cutie pies!*

It has taken me 5 days to figure out that they prefer a pie dish to a litter tray...Newbie Just had to share!


----------



## Charis

Precious picture. A pie dish would be my preference as well.


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## Jay3

Two little angels. They look very comfy and cool just sitting there watching the world go by.


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## Guest

everything is looking great to me , the pie plate looks a little tight but for two birds that seems to be the perfect fit


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## Noahs helper

*settling cage*

Where do you purchase a settling cage? I need one to trap train from the landing board. I have checked the major supply sites and there is nothing listed as a settling cage! What am I missing here???


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Where do you purchase a settling cage? I need one to trap train from the landing board. I have checked the major supply sites and there is nothing listed as a settling cage! What am I missing here???


You can build it. Check out this link. Scroll down toward the bottom, and there is a picture of a settling cage. While you're there, check out the loft. Lovebirds loft is beautiful.

http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/TheLoft.html


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## Guest

its true building your own settling cage is alot easier and cheaper then buying one  just is the cage thats built over your landing board so you can train them to use the trap into your loft


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> You can build it. Check out this link. Scroll down toward the bottom, and there is a picture of a settling cage. While you're there, check out the loft. Lovebirds loft is beautiful.


No link attached...But I found it on their website! Okay, that's easy enough, I'll build my own. And yes, their loft is BEAUTIFUL! Thanks Jay and Lokota!


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## Noahs helper

LokotaLoft said:


> everything is looking great to me , the pie plate looks a little tight but for two birds that seems to be the perfect fit


The litter tray seemed to be too large and overwhelming to them... so I put the pie plate in because it was small and shallow and they loved it. Now they have graduated to a larger deeper container. I'm learning right along with my new babies!


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## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> The litter tray seemed to be too large and overwhelming to them... so I put the pie plate in because it was small and shallow and they loved it. Now they have graduated to a larger deeper container. I'm learning right along with my new babies!


Are you going to just have the two or are you getting more birds?


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> No link attached...But I found it on their website! Okay, that's easy enough, I'll build my own. And yes, their loft is BEAUTIFUL! Thanks Jay and Lokota!


Sorry about the link. LOL


----------



## Jay3

spirit wings said:


> Are you going to just have the two or are you getting more birds?


I believe she is getting 4 more shortly.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> Are you going to just have the two or are you getting more birds?



BigT will have 3 more homers next week and maybe a couple more shortly afterwards.

My goal...6 white homers, a pair of white frillbacks and a pair of black/white Lahores. This is my wish list...still researching Lahores to see if they would fit into budget! lol

I want to keep a cozy little loft with just a few of my favorite breeds, with very minimal breeding if any. This will allow room for any oops that may occur and I'm sure as a newbie, it will happen.


----------



## Jay3

Will you separate them so that when you fly the homers the others don't get out?


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## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Will you separate them so that when you fly the homers the others don't get out?


Absolutely...I wouldn't take that chance. I can either lock them in the aviary or the nestboxes when letting the homers out. I would like to trap train them though. If for some reason one got out...it would stand a chance of getting back in.


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> BigT will have 3 more homers next week and maybe a couple more shortly afterwards.
> 
> My goal...6 white homers, a pair of white frillbacks and a pair of black/white Lahores. This is my wish list...still researching Lahores to see if they would fit into budget! lol
> 
> I want to keep a cozy little loft with just a few of my favorite breeds, with very minimal breeding if any. This will allow room for any oops that may occur and I'm sure as a newbie, it will happen.


That sounds great, I was wondering if more would beable to share that wonderful loft you made, Thanks for reply


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## spirit wings

Jay3 said:


> I believe she is getting 4 more shortly.


I did'nt need an immediate answer, is was not that important..lol.... could of waited for her relpy, Im patient but thanks! your right on top of things


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## blackknight01

they look so cute.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> I did'nt need an immediate answer, is was not that important..lol.... could of waited for her relpy, Im patient but thanks! your right on top of things


Yes she is, my dear friend couldn't know my loft any better than if she was standing it! After a year of numerous photos and lengthy phone conversations answering all of my stupid questions and giving advise...it's like she has been right beside me all the way!


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Yes she is, my dear friend couldn't know my loft any better than if she was standing it! After a year of numerous photos and lengthy phone conversations answering all of my stupid questions and giving advise...it's like she has been right beside me all the way!


so that is why it turned out so good! you had a secret weapon!..lol..


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> Yes she is, my dear friend couldn't know my loft any better than if she was standing it! After a year of numerous photos and lengthy phone conversations answering all of my stupid questions and giving advise...it's like she has been right beside me all the way!


And it has been a great fun adventure. You had so many challenges to overcome in trying to redo that shed. I have to give you credit. You stuck in there, and made it work. The detail that you have put into it is amazing, and I know that you enjoyed that part, but not nearly as much as you are enjoying those babies. It was fun being included as you went along. You have good instincts about what they need, and why they respond to different things the way they do. And I know how much thought you put into everything. They are lucky to have someone who cares so much about their well being. You're gonna love keeping birds.


----------



## garacari

spirit wings said:


> you can clean everything with it, poopie butts, wounds, hand feeding formula from babies... I used it to soak a prolapsed chicken hen to clean her um "area"..worked well.. clean dishes, nest boxes, and you can even put a bit in the drinking water, to combat bacteria..


You made me laugh out loud. I've worked in a few rehabs and bird facilities...and I've wiped many tushies with Nolvassan!

Diluted Nolvassan is fantastic for sterlizing and/or cleaning just about anything. I use it in my home. I love the smell.


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> so that is why it turned out so good! you had a secret weapon!..lol..


Of course! You don't think a newbie could have done it all by themself do you?


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> And it has been a great fun adventure. You had so many challenges to overcome in trying to redo that shed. I have to give you credit. You stuck in there, and made it work. The detail that you have put into it is amazing, and I know that you enjoyed that part, but not nearly as much as you are enjoying those babies. It was fun being included as you went along. You have good instincts about what they need, and why they respond to different things the way they do. And I know how much thought you put into everything. They are lucky to have someone who cares so much about their well being. You're gonna love keeping birds.


I cannot believe how much pleasure they have brought me already! They have made it so worth the effort. I cannot thank BigT enough for bringing so much pleasure into my life with his little beauties!!! I am so anxious for the others to be here next week that I can't stand it!


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## Noahs helper

blackknight01 said:


> they look so cute.


Thanks, I'm very proud of them!


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper said:


> I cannot believe how much pleasure they have brought me already! They have made it so worth the effort. I cannot thank BigT enough for bringing so much pleasure into my life with his little beauties!!! I am so anxious for the others to be here next week that I can't stand it!


I know. I can hardly wait to see them, and how they all interact together. You're gonna need another bath pan. Or a bigger one! LOL.


----------



## Noahs helper

*trap training question*

Is it okay to let the birds trap at will AFTER they trap to the feed call? Or only let them trap to feed call? What I'm trying to say is...I put the settling cage on the landing board and opened the trap door to let my birds walk into it. Then I set the trap and did the feed call and they trapped in and only ate a little because they wanted to go back out to the cage. So I let them back into the cage, set the trap and they trapped in on their own again. And again. They seem to be facinated with the settling cage and the trap ...maybe because it is up high and they can see all the feeder birds. So should they only be allowed to trap to the feed call for control? Or can they also be allowed to trap at will?


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## Jay3

Jan, I think the idea is to get them to trap. I would think the more comfortable they are with it the better. If you have them out flying later on, and don't want them trapping in, just close the trap. You want them to feel comfortable coming into the loft that way.


----------



## Noahs helper

Jay3 said:


> Jan, I think the idea is to get them to trap. I would think the more comfortable they are with it the better. If you have them out flying later on, and don't want them trapping in, just close the trap. You want them to feel comfortable coming into the loft that way.


Well I thought the only reason for the call was just to teach them to trap. But I have learned that I have been wrong many times on here after seeing an experienced person post. lol I was hoping that it was okay to let them come in and out at will, that way I know for sure that they will be comfortable with trapping should danger threaten them. Thanks for the help...
It's funny how you think you've read all about it and know what to do when the times comes...then you start having second thoughts if you truely understand what you are supposed to be doing!!! lol I just want to be careful and not do anything stupid!


----------



## Jay3

Noahs helper;492908[B said:


> ]Well I thought the only reason for the call was just to teach them to trap.[/B] But I have learned that I have been wrong many times on here after seeing an experienced person post. lol I was hoping that it was okay to let them come in and out at will, that way I know for sure that they will be comfortable with trapping should danger threaten them. Thanks for the help...
> It's funny how you think you've read all about it and know what to do when the times comes...then you start having second thoughts if you truely understand what you are supposed to be doing!!! lol* I just want to be careful and not do anything stupid!*




Jan, for one, I am *not* an experienced person as far as trapping. My birds don't fly. And 2), you can't do anything stupid. These birds are for you to enjoy, which you are doing. Everyone has a different way of doing things, so there are many different opinions. 
The reason for the call is to* get* them to trap. If you need to call them in, and you give the feed call, they should come in. Of course, this is assuming that you let them out to fly hungry. Food is a great motivator for these birds. But the more comfortable they are with using the trap, the better. I saw your video, and they look like they're having a ball.


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Well I thought the only reason for the call was just to teach them to trap. But I have learned that I have been wrong many times on here after seeing an experienced person post. lol I was hoping that it was okay to let them come in and out at will, that way I know for sure that they will be comfortable with trapping should danger threaten them. Thanks for the help...
> It's funny how you think you've read all about it and know what to do when the times comes...then you start having second thoughts if you truely understand what you are supposed to be doing!!! lol I just want to be careful and not do anything stupid!


to teach them how to get back in the loft, your doing it fine, now to teach them to come to feed when called, you have to make a sound or shake the can of feed EVERY TIME you feed them.. they will NOT come to feed call from outside if they are not hungry.. if you want control of them coming in then you have to teach them the feed call, you are not out to win any races, so like me I just give feed and they eat when they want.. they already know how to come into the loft so they come and go as they please, I leave the traps open when Iam home and they usually come in at dusk, going in and out if they are out all day to eat and drink..I never feed outside of the loft, but I do offer bathing in the yard.


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> to teach them how to get back in the loft, your doing it fine, now to teach them to come to feed when called, you have to make a sound or shake the can of feed EVERY TIME you feed them.. they will NOT come to feed call from outside if they are not hungry.. if you want control of them coming in then you have to teach them the feed call, you are not out to win any races, so like me I just give feed and they eat when they want.. they already know how to come into the loft so they come and go as they please, I leave the traps open when Iam home and they usually come in at dusk, going in and out if they are out all day to eat and drink..I never feed outside of the loft, but I do offer bathing in the yard.


Whew...Thank you, sounds as I am doing okay! Yes they are trained to the shaking can and "time to eat" repeated over and over. And they respond well to it. My biggest concern was letting them come in and out as they wish so I am relieved to see that that is okay too. I only feed twice a day and only inside the loft. So I will continue to use the call when feeding them to keep them used to it...then afterwards let them come in and out as they please (which is only when I am with them). But they have the aviary and their bath available to them all day. 
Thanks a million!


----------



## Noahs helper

*advise needed on yb loft flying*

Okay loft fliers, I need your advise...
My first 2 birds have been in the loft for 4 weeks and 5 days now and are between 8 to 9 weeks old. They are trap trained to the sound of the feed can. I received 3 more yb this week that are being trap trained and doing very well. My question is...Do I need to let the 2 older ones out of the loft before they get too strong and fly too far...or should I wait til the other 3 are ready to release and let them out all at the same time so they will be safer in numbers? I am in no hurry to release my babies, I'm a very patient person. I ONLY want to do what is best for them to give them the best opportunity possible to return safely to the loft! So from your experience, what do you all suggest???


----------



## spirit wings

I would say if the new ones know how to trap in to your call.. they all can go out together... do it before sunset like a few hours before..that way they should not go far and call them in before it gets dark to feed them.. let them out hungry before the pm feeding and do not give as much feed to them in the AM to make sure they are hungry.... sometimes there may be one or two who has to spend the night outside if they just do not want to come in but the next day they will as they want food..so make sure you have the day off the neXt day just in case... STAY OUTSIDE TO WATCH FOR HAWKS OR DETER THEM WITH YOU BEING THERE. make sure it is a calm evening, no loud noises or dogs barking outside...they won't do much but flutter hear and there or get on the roof or trees at first as they mature they will fly more in a group.


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> I would say if the new ones know how to trap in to your call.. they all can go out together... do it before sunset like a few hours before..that way they should not go far and call them in before it gets dark to feed them.. let them out hungry before the pm feeding and do not give as much feed to them in the AM to make sure they are hungry.... sometimes there may be one or two who has to spend the night outside if they just do not want to come in but the next day they will as they want food..so make sure you have the day off the neXt day just in case... STAY OUTSIDE TO WATCH FOR HAWKS OR DETER THEM WITH YOU BEING THERE. make sure it is a calm evening, no loud noises or dogs barking outside...they won't do much but flutter hear and there or get on the roof or trees at first as they mature they will fly more in a group.


Spiritwings, thank you for your response. I am a basket case thinking I have waited too long. Question... two of the younger ones do trap well to the call, they follow the 2 older ones right into the loft, (the other is much younger and hesitates for about 5 mins before it enters, so I would be afraid to send the yougest one out yet). As for the other 2 my only concern is that they have only been in the loft for 6 days. Is 6 days in the loft long enough to let them out?


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Spiritwings, thank you for your response. I am a basket case thinking I have waited too long. Question... two of the younger ones do trap well to the call, they follow the 2 older ones right into the loft, (the other is much younger and hesitates for about 5 mins before it enters, so I would be afraid to send the yougest one out yet). As for the other 2 my only concern is that they have only been in the loft for 6 days. Is 6 days in the loft long enough to let them out?


wait another week, they should have it down by then and all can come out...the older ones may be a bit old, but that is why you wait till evening time so they are not tempted to go too far before they know the land and position of the loft..


----------



## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> wait another week, they should have it down by then and all can come out...the older ones may be a bit old, but that is why you wait till evening time so they are not tempted to go too far before they know the land and position of the loft..


Okay, another week. They all spend lots of time in the aviary and settling cage, but do you think it would help to move the setling cage to the yard so they can see the loft?


----------



## The_Dirteeone

Just to give you an Idea Noah,I started with 8 pairs late this spring,and I have had 22 babies.


----------



## Noahs helper

The_Dirteeone said:


> Just to give you an Idea Noah,I started with 8 pairs late this spring,and I have had 22 babies.


WOW, lots of babies! You must be going to race!?! I'm just keeping a very small amount for loft flying only... So I have plenty of dumby eggs on hand when the time comes! lol


----------



## spirit wings

Noahs helper said:


> Okay, another week. They all spend lots of time in the aviary and settling cage, but do you think it would help to move the setling cage to the yard so they can see the loft?


sure, it does not hurt for them to see their surrounds for a half hour on a nice day... if you can get them up higher than the ground would be better..on their first time out they will get a good look then too from the roof and or trees they will flitter off too. somtimes I have ones go out on the landing board and look around and turn around and go right back in the loft..like it's too scary out there!....but they get used to it it takes time.


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## Noahs helper

spirit wings said:


> sure, it does not hurt for them to see their surrounds for a half hour on a nice day... if you can get them up higher than the ground would be better..on their first time out they will get a good look then too from the roof and or trees they will flitter off too. somtimes I have ones go out on the landing board and look around and turn around and go right back in the loft..like it's too scary out there!....but they get used to it it takes time.


Thanks for all of your help, I feel better about sending them all at the same time! I put the 3 youngest out into the yard 30 mins before pm feeding. The baby was the FIRST to trap this time! lol


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