# Help with baby pigeon



## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi everybody

Hoping you can help. I've had a brief look at the threads here but wanted to ask before I do anything with my latest addition.

Today an orphaned baby pigeon has found its way to me. From pictures I'd guess he/she's approx 13-16 days old. He seems quite alert and can run about quite quickly, just can't manage to fly yet. He's found his way to my shed so I'm looking for advice on the next step.

He's in the shed with a bed of hay and I've placed a hot water bottle with him for heat. I contacted my local vet surgery but they weren't willing to help out of hours and suggested feeding him cat food and giving him some water.

The advice I've seen here mentions wild bird seed but I'm not sure if he's old enough. I only have budgie food in the house and I'm not sure if this would be suitable for him. I'm not sure what to do for the best with him, its 10.25pm here, I live in the country so no shops are open to buy anything and I really want to help him as much as possible!

Any advice would be much appreciated while I read through the other threads to get some tips!

Thanks in advance, Louise


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Louise,

Welcome to Pigeon Talk, and thank you for caring for this baby.

The bird probably would be interested in some baby bird formula, but for now you can give it small pieces of puppy chow, soaked and drained, or thawed and drained peas or corn. 

The only thing is you would have to feed the baby, because at this age they neither fly nor feed themselves.

Here is a link to handfeeding babies:

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedingrecipesinfo.htm

We have several member is the UK who can advise to specific products that are available in your area.

Please make sure the baby is out of drafts and cold air. The hot water bottle set underneath a towel for the baby to lie on would be better for the baby. Hay can be dangerous to pigeons when it gets wet and moldy.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Louise,

Budgie food is fine. If it needs to be hand fed other suitable food that you might have in your cupboard are wholemeal bread that is at least one day old , which you can moisten and form into pellets..the pellets can be rolled in the budgie food. You have to open the beak and push the pellet to the back of the throat. Also Ready Brek, defrosted peas or corn (not the tinned stuff), soaked dog biscuits with the water squeezed out, Heinz chicken flavour baby food (from a jar). Cat food can be used in an emergency.

Straw does not make good bedding for pigeons, it can release fungal spores which can be lethal. Newspaper, kitchen towel, terry nappies or ordinary towelling are better.

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Louise,

Lucky he found you - else he may have been cat food!

He may be a bit dehydrated, if he's been lost awhile, and he hasn't drunk any water. If you mix a half tablespoon of sugar (or glucose, better, if you have the powder), half TEAspoon of salt in a half litre of water and can put some lukewarm in a small pot it could help. You can try gently immersing his beak up to just below the nostrils and see if he automatically drinks, or else drip a few drops just inside his beak with a syringe, dropper or even a teaspoon. If you use a syringe, just ensure it doesn't squirt into his mouth, as it could go into his windpipe.

For feeding, when shops are open and if there is a good petshop near, we'd recommend Kaytee Exact baby bird formula or Chick Crumbs, mixed as per the given directions.

You could try him with the seed - see if he has yet learned what it is and pecks at it - but he is quite likely not quite there yet. Later, mixed corn or pet dove mix would be OK.

For now, you could make small pellets of bread, preferably wholemeal, and wetted in water (definitely no milk) and pop them into back of his beak whereupon he should hopefully swallow them. 

Another option is frozen peas and sweetcorn, thawed out in a dish of hot water, then popped into the beak.

Or, if you have any human baby food (pref chicken) that can also be given to a baby pigeon, mixed and given lukewarm.

Another emergency alternative would be small pieces of well soaked dog biscuit, or even small bits of canned dog food at a pinch.

Main thing to start is that he is kept warm (which you are doing) and that he is hydrated.

Do you have anything like a dropper or syringes?

Also, of course, ensure he is safely out of reach of any kind of potential wild or domestic predator.

John

(Ah, I see the gals have beat me to it  )


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## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks very much for your quick replies - it makes me feel slightly less scared knowing I've got a bit of help!

I've now replaced the straw with a towel - he was found near my local stables so straw was the first thing at hand, I never even thought it could be dangerous. The main reason I couldn't leave him where he was in the hope he may be adopted by another pigeon was that he was so close to the stables where we have lots of wild cats and dogs run about frequently as well.

He has water, though he's not making any attempt to drink even if I (gently) place his beak in the water. My cupboards are pretty bare, I wasn't prepared for a pigeon emergency! I have no form of dropper/syringe (and neither have the neighbours, I've already checked!) and the only suitable foods I have out of those mentioned are budgie food, bread (though white, not wholemeal) and cat food. 

He's made no attempt to eat the seed so I'll try the bread suggestions next. I was very wary when trying to get him to eat the seed as his beak seems very small and I wasn't sure I should be trying to force it open but I guess he needs to eat.

He's safe from predators in the shed, the door locks and there's no potential way in for the local cats.

Thanks again for all your help, I'll let you know how we get on.

Lou


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## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Just a quick update and one more question.

I've managed to get the hold of a syringe and he's had a few drops of the sugar/salt mix in water.

He still isn't willing to eat the bread/budgie food and I don't want him getting any more stressed so I think I'd be best leaving that until the morning now he's at least had some water to help get him hydrated.

Just wondering how many times a day he will need to be given the water by syringe? (until he starts drinking for himself) - just in case I need to make arrangements for someone to visit him while I'm at work tomorrow.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I would say if he's in a cool place that a minimum of every time he gets fed, water also. If it's hot where he is, then two or three times more per day besides feeding and you don't really have to pump him full of water, just "wet his whistle"......I would keep working on getting him to drink on his own. Once he figures out how to drink, all you have to do is "lead" him to the water, splash it a little and you'll see him guzzle it.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Lou and welcome to the forum.

If you can pick up the Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula tomorrow then you won't need to worry about the water because the baby will get a sufficient amount when you mix the formula. At his age I would feed about every 3-4 hours, apx. 20 cc per feeding but for the first couple of days I would add more liquid to the formula. You can also add about 1/2 tsp plain yogurt or Benebac powder to the formula which will help his tummy process the food better.

While you are giving it the water you can dribble it alongside his beak. If you're using a syringe just make sure you get the syringe end past his air hole in this throat. Don't depress the plunger all at once either - just small squirts so the water doesn't back up in his throat. 

Good luck and keep us posted.

PS - We have another member in Ireland, Alvin, but I'm not sure what area he lives in.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Luise_s99,


Well, time to hit the ground 'running'...


Lol...


Baby Pigeons or Doves of course, do not open their Beak to be
fed. The do not 'Gape' as Songbird Babys will.

They normally eat by inserting their Beak into the
throat of their Parent, who is feeding them by
bringing up food from their own adult Crop, for
the Baby or Youngster to
eat. The Babys or Youngsters eat by making little 'gobbles'
where they open and close their Beak in their
parent's throat.

The Babys will in effect 'gobble' when they have
their Beak 'in' something which feels right to
them, or which feels close-enough...

IF they feel trusting of the situation and if they feel 'seen' or interacted with somehow, enough, in their terms, from whoever is offering to feed them...

Sometimes they assertively ask, even when one has hardly done anything to invite them...

If they are healthy, and confident and accepting of one's feeding them, they will be 'wild' with enthusisam and be all 'Peeeeeeep! Peeeeeeeeep!' or 'Squeeeeeeeeeak! Squeeeeeeeak!" and be running about in little circles or after your Hand, and pumping their shoulders and being assertive with their Nuzzleing.


If you like I would be happy to send you off-site some details too long for the posting context here...

Just let me know, write to me via my regular e-mail -

[email protected] 


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Louise,

Can you confirm that this is a feral pigeon that you have, rather than a wood pigeon or collared dove?

What size is it?

What colour eyes does it have?

If you stretch out a wing, do you see a white stripe?


It may be difficult to find Kaytee Exact in Northern Ireland, it is also very pricey!

A handy , much cheaper and much more available alternative (that I actually find healthier although more difficult to prepare) is Chick Starter Crumbs.

You soak these for half an hour in hot (not boiling) water, liquidise them and then pass three times through a sieve. Serve at wrist warmth at the consistency of clotted cream. You can try to encourage the pigeon to feed itself by putting the mix in a cake icing bag, putting a slit in that and coaxing the pigeon's beak into the slit. Gently pump the food into its mouth once he starts to eat.

Cynthia


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## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi

I think he's a feral pigeon though I know absolutely nothing about them so please feel free to correct me! I've (attempted to) attach a couple of pictures of him below, he's about the size of my hand, seems to have black eyes and has white underneath his wings.

I spent a while in work today on the phone trying to find anywhere local that sells Kaytee Exact without success. He's been drinking water without the syringe, has ate some of the bread pellets and some of the budgie food as well. He also ate a couple of small bread pellets from my hand (with a little gentle persuasion) a few minutes ago.

There aren't any pet shops in the (small) town where I live but I'll get on the phone and see if I can find anywhere nearby that sells the Chick Starter Crumbs if the budgie seed and bread aren't going to be enough on their own.

I'm also trying to get in touch with some pigeon owners in the area to see if any of them would be willing to take him on when he gets bigger - my shed's quite small and probably not ideal for him longer term (though I'm more than happy to look after him for as long as needs be).

Thanks for the replies, all help's much appreciated!

Lou


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, he doesn't look particularly sick so that's good. They usually don't make friends with you too quick. It normally seems to take about three days for them to decide that you're the new parent and then they cooperate with you a lot better.

Pidgey


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Louise - he's adorable  - no wonder you are smitten. 

Tania x

Ps - if you double click on Louise's pictures then you get a bigger pic - what a cutie!!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Louise,

When he had some pellets and budgies food, did you feed them all to him or did he pick them up and eat them himself? If he did, then he is already weaned and, unless he refuses to eat, you are unlikely to need the formula.

Sounds like he's doing good.

Yes, he is a feral pidge 

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Lou,

Definitely a feral pigeon and a young one at that!

Until he feeds himself you willl have to force feed by opening the beak and pushing food in...squeeze some moisture out first to reduce the risk of inhalation.

I brought up one of my first rescue squabs by dipping wholemeal bread in Original Complan, feeding one slice (minus the crust) three times a day. She is a glossy, healthy 6 year old now.

Cynthia


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi Louise, if you do need the chick crumbs, you should be able to get them at an agricultural suppliers.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Louise,



What a little cutie!

Yes...looks like-a-Liva...( Columbia Liva being the Feral Pigeons so called...)


Anyway, I sent you the info in regular e-mail.


When I get in new-arrived Babys or Youngsters such as yours, it takes me about three minutes to have them enthusiatically 'peeeeeeping' and Nuzzleing and shoulder pumping. And within an hour or two, there is no embiguity of 'who' the pro-tem Poppa is in their view of the matter, or mine.


Unless seriously ill or injured, these Youngsters are more than happy to be assertive agents in their own feeding proceedures, and to be amply willing, active participants in their getting fed...and all one has to do, is to do things in their terms.

No imposition is needed, no use of force or restraint, no forcing open their Beaks...

They LOVE to eat, and want TO eat, and will eat enthusiastically, if we simply address them and the tasks, and provide food or formula, which in terms, they understand and are familiar with and or are happy with even if it departs somewhat and in some ways, from what their biological parents provided.


Anyway, all of which is covered in my little missive...


Use a 'white' Towell, and put him up on some Table top or semi high place....

Have a small box on it's side, with a little rumpled towell in it, and drape the open front of that box, with a light kerchief or tee shirt or something, or a short draped so that the 'collar' becomes a small round doorway.

he will not 'go' anywhere...

These are Cliff Dwelling and ledge dwelling Birds by temprement, and once set up on what HE construes to be some 'ledge', he will stay there with no worries needed about him wandering off or falling off.


So, just set up some small Card Table or the likes, as described, and he will be a very happy little Peeeeeeeper...

He will come out of the little draped box-on-it's-side when you call him, and he will go back in when he wishes to nap or feel protected...or he will lay about or nap on the towell in front of the box...

The 'White' Towell allows you so see and evaluate and count the Poops.

One may mrerly take this towell and the other small one feom inside the small box, and shake them out smartly outside once a day if needing to count poops, otherwise, just let the poops be, and shake out the Towells once in a while.

They will poop over the side of whatever they construe to be their Nest proper, for which a small cake pan or low sided tray of saome kind can be used inside the box on it's side, and just have some soft cloth in it then.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks again for all the replies. He's doing well - he's been named 'Bop' by one of the girls who was with me when I've found him so at least he's got a proper name at last! I had a family dinner to attend tonight though all I could think about was getting home to check on him!
I'm not sure if I should still be leaving a hot water bottle with him - the weather's very mild here - around 16 degrees C at night and anything up to 25 degrees C during the day (unusually hot for weather here - its our summer heatwave!) but I don't want him feeling the cold at night.
In reply to John's post - at the start he wasn't eating the budgie food or bread by himself though now he definitely is. I'm just helping out a bit to make sure he gets enough and he's more willing to eat the bread when I place it around his beak now.
He still seems very nervous when I approach him but I suppose it'll take him another few days to get used to me. I'm just hoping that the patience pays off and that he'll eventually come to trust me!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi L 99,


Well...

The warm, moist, finger-tip Beak 'root' massage ( done from the front) is some of the Secret Masonic Handshake stuff for him to know you are allrighty.


Too, just hold him gently in 'Hand Nest' and see if he feels 'hot'...

His less than feathered underside, should be about as warm as a people-child's fevered forehead..and if it is, you need not worry about provideing heat supplimentally in the Summery clime you mention having.

Too, you better get on with it, as he is now at least some days with no chow, and this is not good...and he will start to get compromised on how well he does keep himself at around 105 F-ish.


He should be quite the little endotherm by now, and if he is not, then of course provide suppimental heat...but, if he is being fed enough, he will be a little funace.


Let me know how it is going?


Keep kids and other animals away from him if you can, especially now, or it will confuse or distract him during this initial phase of communication-trust...

And get him "UP" on some towell covered Table-top or Book Case top or something, on some little soft cloth in a small low Bowl or cake pan, and or that in a small Box-on-it's-side and open in the front... so he does not feel like is on the 'ground' vexing about his very and several worries being NOT "up" somewhere will make for him.

The more you can eliminate what for HIM are stress and conflicts and confusions, and the more you can interact in terms which are sensible for him in his terms, the more interested he will be to Eat-be fed...and he needs to be fed, too...in a big way, or he will fare poorly.

He knows what-to-do impeccably...he is lacking nothing...



Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## louise_s99 (Jun 7, 2006)

Quick update...I've kept a close eye on him today, he's feeling nice and hot and has been venturing round the shed a bit more so I think he's starting to feel better and slightly less nervous.
He's been drinking water, eating the soaked bread pellets and some of the bird seed as well. I'm feeding him bread to make sure he's getting enough, he's fine for the first 5 or 6 tiny pellets that I give him, then he starts to struggle and try to stop me from feeding him more. I don't know if this is a sign that he doesn't need any more food or if he's just getting annoyed with me continually opening his mouth?
I've placed a shallow tray of water with him (maybe about an inch deep) and I've found some droppings in it a couple of times today - is it normal for pigeons to bathe or get into water?  
The shed's quite small (and cluttered) so there's no table to place him on as suggested by Phil - I can't bring him into the house because of my cat (he's already getting jealous at the amount of time I'm spending in the shed!).
There's just me handling him, its very quiet around the garden so hopefully there isn't anything else stressing him out too much.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Loise S99,


The scenario you describe will stress him out very much indeed...and or starve him concurrently.


Have you had any occasion to consider the info I sent off-site?

There needs to be deference 'to' him...understanding of how things work for him.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Louise,

I don't know what Phil sent you privately, but I'm quite sure it was very good information. Please stop with the bread .. unless it is a very high quality organic whoopty doo kind of bread, it can't possibly be very good for the pigeon .. and even then .. probably not all that good for the bird. Sounds like you are doing well over all .. keep up the good work and please keep us posted.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

This Pigeopn Baby, I believe, if the images posted are any indication, is still a little 'Peeeeeeper'...

If he is seperated from his parents, he will need to be FED and Hydrated, or by now, carefully re-hydrated and later fed special intentional things not TO kill him, and soon, be amply and often realisitcally fed...fed in his terms of it. Which is what the information I sent, outlines how to do.

If his parents and possible sibling also are ALSO up 'in the shed' then all is probably fine...unless this little one is ill and THAT is 'why' it is not in the Nest and with them still...

If his parents are not themselves IN the 'shed', or quite close by, then, where are they?

Peepers do not tend to go far usually, although they can sometimes, of course, on those little Legs of theirs...


It is quite possible this little one can merely be put "back" into the Nest where it's sibling is, and where his Parents will find him.

However, he should be examined to see if some determinaiton can be made, as to whether he is ill or not, before being re-installed in his Nest, if his parents or his Nest can even be located at all.


Leaving him in effect, on his own, and scattering bread and water will not work here. He will starve to death and or dehydrate or both, and or he WILL become ill and then die from 'that', and fairly soon too.

These Birds, when young, eat by inserting their Beaks into the throat of their parent to 'gobble' watery food the parent brings up from it's own adult Crop for the youngster to eat. They will do this untill they are able fliers themselves, and this one has another month or more till "then".

If seperated FROM it's parents, if logistically orphanned, it either must be retruned to them, or be cared for intentionally, and in terms which are deferential to the Bird Youngster himself, and not in terms which default to the incidental convenience or arbitrary partial interest of the person wishing in some way to only partially 'care' for it by doing little or nothing to care for it.


These are not 'Chickens' who scratch and peck right after hatching.

They do not eat or drink by themselves unless guided to do so in a continuity of progression evolveing out of being fed their way.

I think your this youngster looked to be arouns 18 days old or so.


If you can locate his Parents and Nest...let us guide you to examine some things about him, to prospectively return him TO them. This would be the best of course.

If you can not locate his parents and Nest...then...you, or someone, will need to care for him if he is to survive, and to care for him deferentially accoding to his species and their needs at this age.

So, if you can not do this, do please, at least see if you can find someone in your area who will? and promptly...

You might not have many days left here with this otherwise.

I appreciate your writing to us, I appreciate that you do care, but that there are some impediments and conflicts variously...and so I urge you to either asssume an immediate and earnest and active and real interest in his well being, or to find someone near you who will..!


Best wishes...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## birdlover12345 (Jul 15, 2006)

i found a baby pigeon in a nest it was under a bridge and i took it home
i dont know if it is old enuf to eat reg food i dont want it to die it has 
a lot of feathers and some yellow feathers i named it fathe pleas HELP ME!!!!


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## birdlover12345 (Jul 15, 2006)

i found a baby pigeon in a nest it was under a bridge and i took it home
i dont know if it is old enuf to eat reg food i dont want it to die it has 
a lot of feathers and some yellow feathers i named it fathe pleas HELP ME!!!!
it looks like louise_s99 baby pigeon help!


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