# Free roam of the house?



## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

A lot of you guys mention letting your birds just have free roam (if not all the time at least for spurts). Do you just not care about poops? This is a real question, not trying to put anyone down. I am a clean FREAK. Like it's really bad, I am obsessive compulsively clean. Do you just deal with it and clean the poops all over? Do they go back to the cage to poop? I would love to let my birds out but the idea of 5-10 poops an hour on my carpet doesn't sit too well with me.....does the love of the birds overshadow the dislike of poop and ya don't really care or is there some special secret to not pooping everywhere that I just don't know about....


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Could we try another suject?


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, you could just point me in the direction of similar threads. I'm sorry my question was not interesting enough. I am just a person like everybody else, if you don't wanna answer, don't reply.

Sorry, I belong to lots of forums on lots of subjects and this is just like when someone tells someone to go read the FAQ. I am a mod at a few places and I never tell people that or say "how about another subject". I don't have other questions at the moment, when I do, I will let you know. 

Sorry this sounds rude, I am in a bad mood.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Kimberly_CA said:


> A lot of you guys mention letting your birds just have free roam (if not all the time at least for spurts). Do you just not care about poops? This is a real question, not trying to put anyone down. I am a clean FREAK. Like it's really bad, I am obsessive compulsively clean. Do you just deal with it and clean the poops all over? Do they go back to the cage to poop? I would love to let my birds out but the idea of 5-10 poops an hour on my carpet doesn't sit too well with me.....does the love of the birds overshadow the dislike of poop and ya don't really care or is there some special secret to not pooping everywhere that I just don't know about....


Hi Kimberly, 


Step 1) Get rid of the 'Carpet'


Step 2) Get a 'Mop', Mop Bucket, a Paint Scraper, a Dust Pan, and, a nice old fashioned Straw Broom, sweepings can be composted and will be great for the Flowerbeds, Garden or House Plants.


Step 3) Remove items which Birds would knock over, or, injure, or injure themselves on or get into troubles with...glue Wax Paper or some sort of coarse Screen or Lattice over any Window Panes, unless the Windows are dirty and opaque, in which case, leave them that way...so no one goofs thinking they can fly 'through' them...


Step 4) Let 'em 'roam'...


"Fish gotta swim...Bird gotta fly...man gotta wonder, why, why, why..."


( - from one of the 'Calypsos' of Bokonon..)


Love, 


Phil
l v


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks phil  Unfortunately this is apartment living and the carpet has to stay . What I am thinking though is my outdoor patio. I could easily secure a tarp over the fence and make it so they couldn't escape (I have no idea if they would come back). I think I will just do that so they can have exercise every day. It's a nice size area, probly something like 11feet by 9feet. I think that should do it. Now, to find a big tarp or screen or something....


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Kimberly_CA said:


> Well, you could just point me in the direction of similar threads. I'm sorry my question was not interesting enough. I am just a person like everybody else, if you don't wanna answer, don't reply.
> 
> Sorry, I belong to lots of forums on lots of subjects and this is just like when someone tells someone to go read the FAQ. I am a mod at a few places and I never tell people that or say "how about another subject". I don't have other questions at the moment, when I do, I will let you know.
> 
> Sorry this sounds rude, I am in a bad mood.



Dude...

My response was intended to indicate that free-roaming pigeons are a real poop problem: there's no easy fix. I also included a smiley to show my friendly intentions, but it looks like you didn't get the little joke.

You've just seriously altered my idea that Californians are a pretty layed-back bunch.

Like I said, if you're a real obsessive about cleanliness, you're either going to have to modify some of your personal parameters....or trade off for some toy birds. I've seen some wonderful reproductions here...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I think in your case the bird diapers might be a good idea.
We have a lot of members who use them on their pijies and love them.

Reti


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Well sorry your response sounded like the typical "go read the faq" kind of response. I am usually laid back, but yeah it gets me when people say stuff like that. You could have just said what ya said, "free roaming pigeons are a real poop problem". How should I know, I really thought "hey maybe these guys all know something I don't". I have never had a bird before and we don't treat birds where I work, I am literally brand new. I was not intending to ever have one as I find most quite annoying (the chirping, but fortunately pigeons and doves make soothing sounds) but mine found me while I was driving down the road (a pure white pigeon walking down a country road didn't look quite right so I pulled over and discovered he was all bloodied up). I will never be cool with poop on the carpet but fortunately I will be able to modify my patio into a pretty good sized "aviary" for daily exercise. Anyways, I apologize for snapping at you, it was not cool and it looks like I misunderstood your intentions.


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*Oh, I just have to reply on this.*

So, I feel ya about the poop, really I do. I had my birds confined to their cage or to the kitchen when they were out to help withe cleaning issue. Also my husband was getting irritated no matter how much I cleaned up after them.

then something wonderful happened.....I found a post about PGWear made by the wonderful Boni.

I own about 5 diapers currently, and I will probably get more in the future because they are just too cute.

here is Boni's website where she sells the diapers online
http://www.birdwearonline.com/

She's possibly the nicest person on the planet. Now I can play WoW with a pigeon on my shoulder and not worry about getting poop on my macbook. Muwahahaha.

There's my take on the situation, peace.
-Judi


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*oh*

I just saw Reti mention the bird diapers too, whoops, not trying to say the same thing twice. there's also a thing called "flight suits" or something like that, I ordered one of those a while ago, and it was a bit big, but i think the theory was sound. they come in all sizes. I'm just lazy and didn't return the one that was too big.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Hmm good suggestion! I know someone who used those for her ringneck parakeet. She had trouble with them though......her bird started to bite her and literally hate the living daylights out of her b/c it was so hard for her to get the diaper on. I will probly check them out though and see how easy it is to get it on. 

For anyone who used them....do your birds mind having it on? I think her main problem was getting it on. And from then on the bird would bite her whenever she got too close......definitely don't want that happening. Also, I am still getting to know my birds. At first, anytime I got too close the pigeon would peck me and go to the other side of the cage. He has stopped pecking me but still retreats when I go in. I talk soothingly to him and stroke him really gently. Any tips on trying to get him to like me? I will go read up on that right after I hit reply but any tips are appreciated.....I am afraid if I try to do the diaper thing it will erase any progress we have made in the "lets be friends, I wont eat you" dept.


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Kimberly_CA said:


> Well sorry your response sounded like the typical "go read the faq" kind of response. I am usually laid back, but yeah it gets me when people say stuff like that. You could have just said what ya said, "free roaming pigeons are a real poop problem". How should I know, I really thought "hey maybe these guys all know something I don't". I have never had a bird before and we don't treat birds where I work, I am literally brand new. I was not intending to ever have one as I find most quite annoying (the chirping, but fortunately pigeons and doves make soothing sounds) but mine found me while I was driving down the road (a pure white pigeon walking down a country road didn't look quite right so I pulled over and discovered he was all bloodied up). I will never be cool with poop on the carpet but fortunately I will be able to modify my patio into a pretty good sized "aviary" for daily exercise. Anyways, I apologize for snapping at you, it was not cool and it looks like I misunderstood your intentions.


Ok, I'm glad we've managed to get on the same page. I'm also a member of several other forums, and I don't usually blow people off. 

I have to congratulate you for taking the time to stop for the pigeon and saving him from what would have probably been a long, lonely and painful death. I've infinite respect for what you've done, and would be more than happy if I could help you out of your current problems with this guy.

All I can say is that all of us here started out more or less like you, which is to say at the beginning. Even if some people are born with a silver spoon, no one I've ever met came into life accompanied by a pigeon. It's a long and fascinating - and infinitely rewarding learning-curve. I've given as much as I can to these birds, and each time, I've received much more in return. I tend to be a fairly level-headed person, but I swear that there's something magical about them.

Anyway...since you've got this poop problem (I can't even begin to tell you about mine  ) do check out the pigeon diapers that have been mentioned above. Personally, I haven't yet done so (I keep imagining that one of these days Poopzilla will surprise me by learning to use the toilet) but I do have the firm intention of giving them a try. 

But the patio/aviary idea you've mentioned sounds ideal in the event that this bird turns out to be a 'keeper', meaning permanently disabled and unable to survive in the wild - or bonded to you to the point of not wanting to leave....

Once again, thank you for what you've done for the fellow you've taken in, and welcome to our forum and community. You'll soon begin to see that the members are a fine bunch of people who are always ready to go the extra mile to help out


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks so much man....and I must say, I found your poopzilla story quite amusing especially the part "and the worst part is, i'm a GUY!" 

Yeah I bet a lot of people got into this by finding an injured one. I noticed there are always like 70+ guests here, I bet half have injured pigeons on their hands. I could have never left him. It's kinda funny too. The road I found him on....in our town there is this certain road that teenagers like to tell ghost stories about. It's called "Dyer lane" and there is all kinds of spray painted "bodies" and blood and warnings and cuss words and grafitti all over the place. I used to go there when I was around 16 and we would get all freaked out. We would hide our car and jump out and scare people, it was pretty fun. 

I was driving down a neighboring road a couple months ago and decided to drive down Dyer just for fun and then I found him. I am the type of person who cannot leave a running/injured animal. Both my dogs I found running down busy streets and couldn't locate their owner. I have probly saved over 20 dogs since I turned 16 and got my license. I found a pigeon a few years ago in the middle of the night and gave him heat and water but he died b4 I could get him into the vet. I only had him for a couple hours but I still cried. My family says animals "come to me" b/c my list of rescued animals that would have otherwise gotten hit by cars or eaten is soooooo long. I can't understand people who just drive by stray dogs. I have gotten fired twice b/c I showed up a couple hours late b/c I had to chase down a dog. Anyways, i'll stop rambling. I am just so happy animals exist. I don't know what I would do without them, they are just so special and wonderful and perfect.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

You mentioned him being a "Keeper" or not. I have been told not to release him b/c he probly was never feral b/c of his color. Probly a white homing pigeon. Is it really ok to release him when/if he can fly again? I just want to do whatever is best for him and either way is fine with me. Also, how long does it take for blood feathers to grow back? His were damaged like 4 months ago. His injuries looked like something got ahold of his wing but obviously he was able to get away. But within a short period all of his longest feather on one of his wings fell out/or he picked them out himself. There is no indication "yet" that they are coming back in. It's been 3 1/2 months (at least) since he lost them. Should they have returned by now or is it possible the "follicles" were permanently damaged?

(sorry for all the questions)


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Kimberly_CA said:


> You mentioned him being a "Keeper" or not. I have been told not to release him b/c he probly was never feral b/c of his color. Probly a white homing pigeon. Is it really ok to release him when/if he can fly again? I just want to do whatever is best for him and either way is fine with me. Also, how long does it take for blood feathers to grow back? His were damaged like 4 months ago. His injuries looked like something got ahold of his wing but obviously he was able to get away. But within a short period all of his longest feather on one of his wings fell out/or he picked them out himself. There is no indication "yet" that they are coming back in. It's been 3 1/2 months (at least) since he lost them. Should they have returned by now or is it possible the "follicles" were permanently damaged?
> 
> (sorry for all the questions)



There are other members here who are far more experienced/qualified to intelligently answer your questions - which incidentally you've no reason to apologize for: sharing information is one of the principal reasons this forum exists.

As I say, I'd rather defer to more experienced members. Just the same, I can't help observing that more than three months seems like an _awfully_ long time for wing feathers to grow back. As for permanent damage to the follicles, I personally don't see it: his wing would have to have been totally destroyed for such a thing to happen...and even then.

As for releasing him or not, again, I advise you to wait for more member input. It all depends on so many factors; the fact that you found him injured may indicate that he's not really adapted to a feral (wild) existence. Also, being a white bird may indicate that he was raised in captivity with the unique objective of being released (for money paid to the 'owners') with a bunch of other doves and pigeons at a wedding or similar celebration. 

Birds like that have absolutely no experience in figuring out how to make it in the real world, and often end up like the one you found.

Are there flocks of wild pigeons around your place? If so - and if once he's back in perfect shape - and on the condition of him showing signs of wanting to join them, you could try a release. Chances are he would keep coming back 'home' for as long as he needed your care and (principally) feeding. The best case would be a progressive integration into the local feral flock and a proportionate distancing of his dependancy on you.

There are lots of variables here, and you can expect more input from other members as they become aware of this thread.

As to your questions concerning his feathers and overall condition, a picture is always worth a thousand words: if you can post a few, they would certainly help in evaluating what's going on with your bird.

In the meantime, keep checking up on this thread: I'm sure other members are going to add what they know to it....


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Kimberly_CA said:


> Hmm good suggestion! I know someone who used those for her ringneck parakeet. She had trouble with them though......her bird started to bite her and literally hate the living daylights out of her b/c it was so hard for her to get the diaper on. I will probly check them out though and see how easy it is to get it on.
> 
> For anyone who used them....do your birds mind having it on? I think her main problem was getting it on. And from then on the bird would bite her whenever she got too close......definitely don't want that happening. Also, I am still getting to know my birds. At first, anytime I got too close the pigeon would peck me and go to the other side of the cage. He has stopped pecking me but still retreats when I go in. I talk soothingly to him and stroke him really gently. Any tips on trying to get him to like me? I will go read up on that right after I hit reply but any tips are appreciated.....I am afraid if I try to do the diaper thing it will erase any progress we have made in the "lets be friends, I wont eat you" dept.


Hi Kimberly,
The PG Wear diapers created by Boni are custom made for pigeons and they are much easier to put on/take off than the kind that's manufactured for parrots. I have tried both.

My birds have not had a problem wearing PG Wear, though there's usually a minor adjustment period depending on the bird's personality. If introduced in a friendly but firm manner, and reinforced with treats and kind words, your pigeon should be ok with wearing PG Wear. Keep in mind that they can not be left alone wearing the garments all day, as the liners need to be changed every couple of hours.

Another idea if you are not comfortable with using diapers...
I used to keep a case of baby wipes in the room where I'd let the birds fly free. Just kept an eye on them and wiped up the droppings as soon as they fell. Pet stores sell "Poop Off' brand wipes that may or may not be better, though they are a lot more expensive.

I kept my birds caged most of the day, and let them out for supervised flight time in the evenings. That kept the mess from getting too overwhelming.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Alright here is the best I could do with my crappy camera. The feathers have been like that, like I said, more than three months. Thanks for ur help man  And also for not guessing when ya aren't sure of the the answers.....that is always a good thing, appreciated 

Oh, and that color was from the betadine. Stained the feathers.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ryannon said:


> Could we try another suject?


You crack me up!


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks amoonswirl......I will have to try those out. I think I will wait a little while for my bird to like me a bit more. I think there has been some progress though bc tonight it was really easy to get him to step up on my hand.....thanks!


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

Even with the pics, I can't really say anything - except that in the first one, the wing looks in pretty good shape - I don't see what feathers are missing...

But once again, you should rely on more experienced opinions.

His stepping up on your hand is a good sign - he's starting to trust you. When he tries to take a friendly bite out of it, you'll know you've arrived and that he's accepting you as an equal.

These birds can be tremendously affectionate - and it's not always just a question of hormones and libido. Working out a close relationship with a caged bird is trickier: after all, you're playing the role of a prison guard. I gave up on this long ago: first of all, because the pigeons I regularly took in to rehab quite naturally tended to stick to one end of the room (thus limiting poop-distribution); secondly, because an important part of the healing process involved their being able to move/fly around freely (including taking interminable merry-go-round rides on my overhead ceiling fan); and finally, because my most recent bird, Poopzilla, has bonded with me to the point that shutting him up in a cage has become unthinkable to both of us.

Poop-wise, I never really had a huge problem with the free-roaming rehabs: like I said, they tended to stick to an 'open' cage which I had set up on a table next to the windows at one far end of the room (where it was easy to spread a bit of newspaper) and the occasional poops when they ventured into my territory were easy to clean - even, with the aid of a vacumn cleaner, off the carpet once they had thoroughly dried.

All of this changed with the arrival of Poopzilla, who initially seemed to have been put on the earth for the sole purpose of destroying all of my former ideas of order and cleanliness. After an initially rough period (during which I seriously considered wringing his neck) he somehow prevailed and I gave in. Some might say, _caved in._ 

The unexpected thing was the feeling of liberty and well-being that came with this: after all, who needs friends? Who cares if people think you've gone crazy? _Poopzilla has made me strong inside!_ (Maybe it's something in his poop?) Whatever. 

But more to the point, I know that this is just a temporary chapter in what's likely to be a long relationship (Poopzilla is flight-impaired, which is just some pc way of saying that he can't manage to get his ass off the ground without landing on his head). 

As I was saying, a temporary chapter: one of these days I'm going to rip up the old carpeting (Poopzilla has transformed it from a solid charcoal color into a really interesting polka-dot pattern) and replace it with something much easier to clean. Like Teflon-coated stainless steel. 

Also, I've been a bit remiss about cleaning up after him (it's been a few months now) but with the possible aid of the diapers and a daily cleaning detail, it should be a fairly livable situation once I make the transition back to a Better Homes and Gardens-type existence.

I've lapsed into this long digression in the hopes that you might - in reading it - recognize some of the problems (and solutions) you're currently facing. Remember, there's never one right answer - other than the one that best satisfies both you and your pigeon. Working out that delicate point of convergence will be a real learning experience for both of you - something unique and unforgettable. 

In the meantime, _don't worry_, and keep us posted!


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