# Questions about grit



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

I am curious about this and I can't seem to figure out how to rectify the situation. I've noticed that when I give my young birds grit, their droppings become horrible; large pools of water, mushy and and just generally icky. I had been offering them grit about 2 - 3 times per week and limiting their consumption of it. I'd only leave a small dish in their room for about 10 minutes at a time. What I found was, that during this time they would consume large amounts of grit, gobbling it down very fast. Even when I had the grit in their room all the time, I found that they were constantly eating it. I decided what would happen with the droppings if stopped the grit. It's been 10 days now and strangely, their droppings are literally "Picture perfect". So my questions are: 1) how do I prevent them from eating so much grit? 2) How long can they actually go without grit, say if I was to supply trace minerals in their water? It would seem that they droppings wouldn't be that great either without grit but so far, I'm just shocked at how perfect they are. They are text book description now. Tooth paste-like consistancy, nutty brown, or sometimes light green, with a dollup of white on top, and even a down feather on top which is supposed to indicate excellent health.

Comments, suggestions, ideas?

Thanks very much,


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## Webby (Feb 18, 2005)

I am new to this but from what I read they are supposed to have as much grit as they want. The grit I bought has calcium in it for eggs and bones. I bought red kaytee pigeon grit from Suothern states and farm. It has some kind of erb in it that smells like Liquorice. This is the first day I had my pigeons and they seem to be eating equal amounts of grit and food.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I have noticed when birds first start mineral grit they consume more .Then level out and just eat what they need. Grit helps with digestion. So I would continue useing it. Things should smooth out What type of feed do you use.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Relee, 

I use a summer mix designed for homers actually. But then I add my own grains in as well. It's got 3 types of peas (green, white and maple), wheat, rice, vetch, milo (white and red), safflower, popcorn, pigeon pellets, pearl barley, millet and mung beans. Sometimes I add some sunflower as well. Right now I'm used the red grit, not the kind that comes in the pick pots but the kind that looks more like crystals. Maybe what I'll do is try them on the crushed oyster shell grit since my birds don't like it as much and perhaps this will help, what do you think?


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Brad they are probably watery due to the salt intake from the grit, basicly they are drinking a lot of water. Like Ellen suggested it should level out, they are plowing into it because they are craving it. Personally I don't worry to much about droppings unless I suspect a problem, there are just so many things that affect the droppings, stress, feed change,excess water intake, you name it. Or a bird might even have something going on with it for a day or two. just my opinion
Scott


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Motherlodelofts said:


> Personally I don't worry to much about droppings unless I suspect a problem
> Scott



Thanks Scott and Webby, 

If you saw the droppings while they were on grit, you'd be a little concerned as well. If not concerned, you'd spend your whole day cleaning poop splattered walls, trying to dry soaked wood, and prevent them from eating seeds that have become saturated in watery feces  I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all (please don't take it that way) but I am aware of how the salt is causing more water intake and the watery droppings. I also know it's vital to give them grit for calcium, trace minerals and and a means to digest their food through grinding in the gizzard. I just wish there was another way. Such as just adding trace minerals and calcium to the water and OCCASIONALLY giving grit for salt and food grinding agents. If you saw the droppings now, as apposed to before, you'd be very eager to keep things the way they are now as well. I think I will try the oyster shell grit for awhile and perhaps tomorrow I will pick up a pick pot with that other type of red grit, not the one I have now which obviously has a lot more salt in it. My pigeons generally don't consume much of the oyster shell grit and there isn't much if any salt in it. Here are two pictures of poop. One that is during grit supply and one from today after 10 days without grit. Judge for yourselves.  


Thanks very much to everyone for their comments though.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*GRIT and my two cents*

I give my birds fresh grit just about everyday. I give them two different kinds, plus the pick pots, plus a "Special" mineral mix. What is not consumed by the next day, is thrown out. 

Like some other posts suggested, it should level out. My suggestion is to have fresh grit in front of them 24/7. They may be overdoing it a bit, because it is not there all the time.

Try this for a week or to, and let us know what the results are.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Droppings !*

I just saw the pictures YIKES !!!  

On second thought, I would consider another brand of grit ! I use the red and the grey, but now I understand your concern. I would switch brands, plus use the pick pots.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Ekkkkkkkk!*

 Hi Brad and everyone, I can understand what you are going thru with the problem you encountered . Our indoor pigeon went thru a couple of changes within the past few days as far as his droppings are concerned though not as bad looking as the picture that you have shared. Our pigeon has always had his share of wild bird mix with added sunflower seeds in his food dish. I went contrary to what I have read in this forum that a separate container be always provided and have always just added 2-3 finger pinches of Kaytee HI~cal grit on the side and it seemed to work for us. Well, last week we went to Petco and purchased an additional dish, and Kaytee Supreme blend for Doves and Palomas(pigeons).I placed about 4 -5 pinches of the same grit in a separate dish, and his seed blend alone. He seems to like the blend, with the exception of a larger round off-white seed that he just refuses to eat! I also have added a few raw uncooked peauts to his diet every other day cut in half (just to be safe).I have noticed that his droppings are also watery, but as I said not quite as bad as what your are going thru. I believe my problem is that my bird is just adjusting to his up-scale revised diet and as Lin said, maybe mine is eating a bit more grit than in the past.I have seen him pecking away at his grit and then walking over to his food dish. I am going to monitor the changes if any that my pigeon goes thru and maybe things will balance out. Maybe the grit that you have does need to be changed? Good luck with your dilemma and keep us posted please and I will as well.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Brad that crap looks like sh-t , I'm with Warren I would change grit, although it is hard to believe that it is caused by the grit, I'm not saying it isn't but I just havn't seen grit cause that. I wonder if the salt content is just way to high ? also Pigeons can go a very along time without grit. If I run out I'm not making a mad dash to get more, it just goes on my list of things to pick up.
Scott


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

"pigeons can go a very long time without grit"



Hi Scott, 

Thanks for that answer. Yes, if you look really closely though in the picture, you will see the red grit in the feces. They would eat so much of it all the time that they were pooping it out or throwing it up. I do believe like you though that this grit is just too high in salt perhaps. I couldn't stop them from over-indulging and even when I limited their grit intake, the droppings still never improved to any degree. My other pair has no problems with this grit however. When the droppings started to get really bad in the youngsters, I was panicked. I treated them for worms and their droppings got a bit better so I thought that was it. Slowly they got worse and worse though and it went on for weeks. I figured they had either E.coli or young bird sickness but they weren't acting sick so then I decided to cut out the grit altogether and see what happened. Picture #2 was the end result.



I'm gonna try the pick pot,clay type grit...I don't know exactly what it's contents are but it looks more like piece of red clay. I also have trace minerals and I add calcium gluconate to their water regularly.


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## Webby (Feb 18, 2005)

LOL. That is the sickest bird poop I ever saw.

The Red, grit I got everyone recomends its Kaytee from southern Farm and States. LIke I said Im new, so I will have to see. It was $12 for a 50 Pound Bag. I got a $2 10 Gallon tuperware bin from walmart and it fits perfect. I should have enough for like, forever. I could list the ingredients but its got red granite, Calcium, and charchol. Its really almost like medicated grit. I would say they are probably going to be spoiled birdies. Give it a try if you have a Southern States farm store in your area. They sell all kinds of stuff, from Chicken Crumbles to Horse feed. They sell Kaytee Pigeon feed, PR 12 and PR 18. Whwen I analyzed the ingredients it was basically like racing pigeon food and than on the back has the break down like all animal food should for nutrition.

I put about 2 ounces in a big pick pot but I think Im giong to need a smaller Pick pot.

But LIke I said. We will see. I am a newbie. Looks like good quality stuff.


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## Motherlodelofts (Oct 9, 2004)

Brad the throwing up I would say salt poisoning is a very real posibility and for sure I would toss it, I just use the red grit and mix it with the Oyster shell.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Red Powder*

Hey Brad,

You are doing a great job of deductive reasoning. One of my hens overindulged in the red pickpot when I first got it and her poop turned watery due to high salt. I added a little dish of the red mineral powder by their food bowls, which has lower salt. I think because it's so convenient, all the birds use that first, although the other pickpot is still available. In fact, I now have about five different pickpot/mineral blocks for them to choose from. The bowl of grit is out there, but hardly ever used, since there are so many other sources of minerals.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Scott for that information, it all makes sense now really. Just can't understand why they eat so darn much of it until it's literally comin' out of both ends! 

Thanks Terri as well for your suggestions. Do you know what the pick pot grit is comprised of? I was using the red granite grit which looks more like cyrstals but the pick pots grit seems to be more like chalk in consistancy and density. 


Thanks guys for the help!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

You could put less grit down. But as a rule on mineral grit. When the birds do not have it in front of them 24/7 They eat more for about the first 4 to 5 days. Then level off. And also when they are feeding young birds they take in alot to feed it to the young birds also. You might just let it go a week see that it tapors off. then droppings improve. Its the same with me when I put vit, in the water the birds seem to drink more. And I dso this 1 time weekly. Also some time to much sunflower seed will loosen droppings. But I did see your pics, And the birds are probably doing both eating extra grit drinking more water.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Robert for the advice and suggestions. Gross poop pictures eh? LOL


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Red Pickpot*

The high salt pickpot looks like red clay mixed with a fair amount of grains/crystals (sand or salt?) and a smaller amount of oyster shell. Another popular one is tan (listed as seaweed), also with what looks like grains of sand.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

*grit questions*

This thread has been most interesting and timely, since I'm suddenly having problems with watery droppings! The ony thing that has changed is that I gave my pigeons pickpots last week in addition to their usual red grit. I took one hen whose droppings are especially bad to the vet and he found nothing (no canker, cocci or bad bacteria) in her droppings, so now I'm thinking it's the pickpot. Neither she nor any of the others are acting sick, but her droppings look awful, just like those pictures. I give my pigeons pink minerals on the side, too. After reading all these posts I think I'll try pulling the pickpots. BTW, the vet recommended giving her probiotics to help restore "good" gut bacteria. 

I recently read this, concerning grit, in Dr. Walker's "The Flying Vet's Pigeon Health & Management": 

"Because of the minerals, in particular calcium, that grit contains, it is important that feeding stock birds have grit in front of them all of the time. Poor-quality grits will contain an excessive level of salt. Because the birds eat the grit to gain access to the minerals it contains, they are forced to take in the salt and therefore develop a thirst." ( p. 167)

As I understand it, too much salt means too much water intake and subequently, watery droppings.


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## Webby (Feb 18, 2005)

I am on day 3 of freely offering my birds the red granit kaytee grit and the dropings look pretty good or semi firm.


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