# Two Feral Pigeons Found- NEED HELP!



## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I have two gorgeous little babies in a box in my room right now. 

They are both pretty docile and tame. I have pictures of both of them and their injuries to share, so if anyone would please give me a hand with some advice it would be greatly appreciated. 

Pigeon 1- Zion - Still has some baby fluff. Slight molting around the beak, Slight molting on the chest. I presume this was because he was covered in feces when I found him. 
He has a wound on his wing. Not too bad but he is not flying anywhere. 
Cleaned him, placed him in the box and gave him bread and water.

Would like to know what steps to take in caring for him further.

Pigeon 2- Seph- Missing almost a whole wing. We found him downtown, in a very busy area. I do not believe that a cat is to blame, could have been a traffic accident. He does not seem to be in much pain, and reacts well to me cleaning his wing wound. I have a very good picture of this wound. He is otherwise fat, perky and healthy. Able to feed himself and is now relaxing in the large cardboard box with his new pal Zion.

Would like to know how to clean and dress a wing wound. I understand that this bird is too injured to be released and will take full responsibility for his further well being and care. I like both of them and would like to also know how I might go about keeping them, feeding them and providing long term care arrangements.

I have kept birds in the past, cockatiels and love birds. They are very responsive to me and I am excellent at handling birds so I was glad to help these little angels.

I will post pictures in a reply to this post as soon as I host them on photobucket. Just wanted to get this letter posted asap so that I can get on top of Seph's wound situation.

Thanks!

Angel.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Me holding Zion










Zion's beak










Zion's Breast Bone is showing here. 










Zion's wing injury and some of his molting. This bird was absolutely filthy when I found him.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Seph's Wing Injury










Another shot of Seph's Wing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sure would be nice if you could at least get them on Clavamox (Amoxicillin plus Clavulanic Acid... it goes under other names like Synulox and Augmentin) or even Amoxicillin. This would mostly be because of the worry of a systemic Pasteurella multocida infection which can be lethal to birds seeing as how the wounds are of unknown origin.

Here's a thread you can go read of something similar:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16607

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, it looks like the feathers are gone but the underlying structure is intact. Here's a link to drawings of the skeletal structure so that you can feel that out better:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

What you might seriously consider doing is giving the bird a bath in some warm water (~95 degrees F) that has just enough Dawn in it to make wetting the feathers easy (they're usually pretty resistant to getting REALLY wet) and also add a capful of Clorox bleach (half gallon of actual water). That will help kill external bacteria that may be rotting the feathers off. I've seen that before.

Pidgey


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Pidgey, I have a prescription for Amoxicillin that is my own. I have 500mg Capsules for an ear infection I had last month. I have a few left. 

Is there a way to safely administer this to the birds? If not that means I have to go to a vet right? *counts bills* I hope I can afford that. But if not, I mean what can I do right? 

I can most likely dilute the powder into an eye dropper and feed it to them but what dosage? How do you medicate a bird anyway? I've cared for healthy birds for ages but never a sick one. 

What do I clean the wounds with?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Where, basically, are you in case we've got resources in your area?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks for helping these two out, the look to be in tough shape. You didn't
mention your general whereabouts....could be that we have someone in the
area that can help out or perhaps a rehabber or vet willing to medically care
for pigeons. Please do let us know. Do you have any medications on hand?
Augmentin/Clavamox would be ideal, Doxycycline will also work well and if you
had only Amoxicillin, well that would be better than nothing.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

This may sound silly but I don't have any bleach in the house!!!!! Ahh ok, rubbing alcohol? Peroxide? Saline? I have all that stuff for people wounds.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wounds can be washed w/a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and water at a ratio
of 10 parts to 1 part. Actually since you have saline solution, that would be my first
choice.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I am in Hamilton Ontario. 
We'd like to care for these babies as best we can so if you do know any feral rehabs in the Greater Toronto Area that would be willing to help out then feel free to send me the numbers and I'll do my best to get them taken care of.

Again I have the antibiotics here, how do I give it to them ?


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Sweet, here we go giving Seph a bath! I've just water washed the wing but now that means hes getting some good care!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

On the Amoxicillin, let's shoot for 100 mg/kg, PO, BID which is the medical notation for 100 milligrams of medication (pure substance) per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily. Assuming that the birds are of the 250 gram class, that'd be 25 milligrams per bird, twice per day. That means that you'd need to take each capsule, split the case and divide the contents up into 20 fairly equal piles. You can do that by either making a line and dividing it up with a ruler (razor blade and glass works real well) or putting the contents into a good, sealable bottle with a quantity of water that you can then divvy out with a syringe. You have to be able to measure the original quantity of water and then the dosage out with a 1 milliliter syringe or something like that. Which method would you prefer (gotta' refrigerate the liquid version)?

Pidgey


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Oh yes how should I wash Zion, warm water on a soft cloth I rubbed him down and got most of the feces off as best I could. 

Hes one dirty bird, I didn't want to stress him out too much so I just washed him a little until I really know what I'm doing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Toronto, huh? Sounds like Jazaroo's territory. Haven't seen him on today but he's only an email away (although might be past his bedtime).

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, just keep the water warm and the movements slow and tweak his beak from time to time and chortle. Stuff like that usually works for me. He's probably starving to death. They don't come stock knowing how and what to eat so they have to be taught. Bread's not the best and most can't recognize it as food, certainly not nestlings. Anyhow, they're basically seed eaters and nothing cooked or canned. You can feed him defrosted frozen peas or corn, for instance, but it's still not something that he's going to recognize so it's seed-popping the hard way at first.

Pidgey


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Hopefully he will come on tomorrow and see this message!

I'd love all the help I could get. I can't personally get to Toronto with the birds because I take buses everywhere. Even if someone could come check on them for me...help me do the right things...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Might want to hold off on a full bath until the bird is stabilized on a heating pad set to low. Have you done this already? After one half hour to an hour then
they usually get the IRS solution which is to say a cup of water w/a pinch of
sugar and a pinch of salt. You can drop it along the side of the beak and the
pij should just drink it up for you.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, you can give human baby cereal also for now. Might be easier for the
bird to digest and access the nutrients sooner. Gerbers chicken and rice puree
would be perfect.

Here's a link on how to crop medicate:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

You can fill a dropper w/puree and 'crop-drop it'.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't know which if any of these contacts you might be able to use,
but in any case, you'd have to call first and make sure they accepted pigeons
and that they didn't euthanize if non-releasable:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactI.htm

http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

The last link has a fair number of contacts in Ontario.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Rycharde,

Just to make sure we're not getting a little ahead of things, here's 
a link to the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

And here is a link to stabilization information:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

There are alot of other informative links there which should
give you good information on a variety of issues regarding
health, in and out of crisis.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok I don't have a heating pad. I am not worried about them getting cold however. My room is about 25 degrees right now. It is 32 outside. Hottest day on record so far this summer. 
I'll be lucky if these babies don't cook in my room. 

I don't have a heating pad right now. Unfortunately. I have hot water bottles, would those do if things got cool?

So all I could find was a baby medicine eye dropper. My daughter was given tylenol liquid when she got her needles but we never used it because she takes the chewables so the dropper is factory sealed clean now. 

How do I wash Seph's wing with the saline? 

They're right calm and settled in my dark, quiet walk in closet, in a rather large produce box. They both seem calm and very content. Seph is harder to handle as he is an adult. But Zion allows my two year old to hold him. (she is amazingly gentle. I laid him on his back across her hands so I could have two hands to clean the feces out of his feet) Z is a very good little baby.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, a dropper is fine to feed w/and can be used like a syringe would in crop
medicating. Take a look at the link posted earlier for examples on how to do
this. 

A heating pad is fine, wrapped w/towel. The concern is that the bird is warm
and stabilized before the hydration process begins.

Hopefully Jazaroo will be in touch w/you, but you can also call the rehabbers
on the list in Ontario and inquire if they will care for pigeons as well.

How do you wash a wound w/saline solution? You can either place something
underneath the wound and allow to drip over the wound or you can use a 4x4
and very gently dab a drenched one around the wound. It would be best to get some professional care for the kind of wounds that these two have, though.

Maybe you could try some of the Onario numbers on the Rehab list and
post back regarding the results.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok sounds like I can handle that tonight. I will call some people in the morning.

Should they be ok on their own for a couple hours while I go out? I have to leave them to pick up some things for them and I like keeping a constant eye on them since they're not too well.

I'll let you know in the morning, heading to bed now after I give them some liquid and meds. Can't get baby food until the morning but will do soon! 

Thanks.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

It's one 500 milligram amox capsule to 21 ounces of water. This I know.

I believe the solution is good for awhile if you keep it in a cool dark place.

I can't find my pigeon catalog at the moment but they are suppose to have that as drinking water 5 to 7 days, maybe 10.

Sorry, check out Foys they might have the directions.

I shouldn't be on the computer right now. Trying to take control of my addiction. 

Gotta go, Goodnight!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Rycharde, they should be fine on their own if you have no predator pets
in the household like cats or dogs that will have access to them. Really,
a cardboard box in an out of the way place is fine for now until things start
to solidify w/their medical care. Thanks for caring and helping.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok that sounds easier than cutting lines and mixing like that. Throw one capsule into 21oz of water. Now lets measure how many cups that is...I'm still not even unpacked I just moved. I can only find a 1/4 cup measuring cup right now so lets see how this goes. 

Then I feed them how many mls of that stuff?


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I gave them a bit more space and sacrificed the whole shelf in my closet to them!

I have a big, empty, walk in closet with nice low shelves on it. So they each have their own little shelf now, lots of room, closet doors are closed and secured. I do have two cats but they have been shown the birds and they show no interest in hunting them.

Even though that be the case, I have an outside lock on my bedroom door and the cats can't get in to the closet at all even if they were in my room. The babies be safe in there tonight.

So what I did tonight so far...

Full body check, poured saline over their wounds. Supplied food and water should they choose to partake in consuming it. 
Separated them, I think the box was too small for the two on their own... 

Waiting for advice again on that amoxcicillin dose, nervous about that and I'm making up something for them to drink. Going to try that dropped out. Just finished washing the wounds. 

And of course I've gently handled them, been calm with them and showed them a lot of lovins. 

When I put my finger in their breasts or around their head feathers they almost coo into me. They close their eyes, relax and allow me to pet them gently. They like me a lot. I think they appreciate me helping them at least a little. 
Lets see how much they like me after I make them open their beaks and put meds in them!

How could you not care when you see a bird like these. They are so beautiful. I just love looking at them! Mom says "we're doing God's work for God's creatures" And I agree. They are amazing animals and I'm going to do my best to make sure they lead long, healthy lives.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd start conservative and see how the crops are emptying. Let's say between
15-20ml....which is alot of in and outw/out a tube and syringe but doable... You can also soak puppy chow and break into small pieces and push to the back of the throat allowing them to swallow on their own. Your going to have to see what is most comfortable for the both of you. 

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I have kitty chow that works right? Mom suggested that today, it softens right up with a little water and can be made baby food consistancy really easily. 

How do I feel the crop and know if its full or not? I'd assume both birds now have empty crops since the poor dears have been in my closet since about 5pm and sick who knows how long before that. 

I'm a bit nervous with the crop feeding but I did it with my lovebird when she was sick, well my mom did. I have some idea of what to do. And these birds love me. 

Ok, going downstairs to mush up kitty kibble.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

The Amoxicillin dose for birds is 150-200 mg per kg of weight .. you need to do the math and get this right. Here's the reference to the dosage: http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/umnuser/formulary.html#Amoxicillin

Terry


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok sitting here with a 1.0 ml baby dropper and a bowl with wet cat food. Waiting for it to get soft.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok so this kitty mix I made up, Zion took a bit down pretty well. One dropper filled right to the brim so about 2Ml of the stuff and now hes a little peaked at me. So I said fine then, tossed him on my bed real gentle and now hes staring at me all funny. Hah there he goes jumping off my bed which is like a mattress on the floor. Looking around... 

Hes so funny!

Poking his head about. Haha he shook good and ruffled himself. Yeah he looks great right now ohhh stretching those wings and bobbing around. Looks great!

I think he is really going to make it. He either chirps like a chic or quacks like a duck, maybe hes just nutso. But he looks nice to me right now. Walking around, exploring my room! Its child safe so its bird safe too, thankfully. 

Good Ol' Seph is asleep. I'll bother him later. Wanted to try feeding Zion first since Zion is easier to handle.

I took him up in a soft baby blanket, bundled him and laid him in my lap.
I opened his mouth gently and put a little of my mixture on his tongue.

He willingly swallowed it up. Smacked his beak together and looked at me funny. So I gave him a bit more. Then he got restless.

He looks like he is settling in fine now.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

So how much of this cat food mixture should I feed these birds?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> On the Amoxicillin, let's shoot for 100 mg/kg, PO, BID which is the medical notation for 100 milligrams of medication (pure substance) per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily. Assuming that the birds are of the 250 gram class, that'd be 25 milligrams per bird, twice per day. That means that you'd need to take each capsule, split the case and divide the contents up into 20 fairly equal piles. You can do that by either making a line and dividing it up with a ruler (razor blade and glass works real well) or putting the contents into a good, sealable bottle with a quantity of water that you can then divvy out with a syringe. You have to be able to measure the original quantity of water and then the dosage out with a 1 milliliter syringe or something like that. Which method would you prefer (gotta' refrigerate the liquid version)?
> 
> Pidgey


The Amoxicillin that you buy from the pigeon supply places sale 500 mg capsules. Instructions say 6 capsules in a gallon of water, if that helps any.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

If you mix 500mg of the amox powder with 5 ml of water, then it would be 0.25 ml twice a day. If you mix 500mg with 10 ml of water, it would be 0.5 ml twice a day. You would need to use a 1 ml syringe into the crop (at least that's the only way I know to give meds to pigeons), which someone has probably provided links to (crop-medicating that is). With a dropper into the mouth, I'd worry about aspirating into the lungs...but maybe other people could speak to having used droppers in the past?

As for the kitten or puppy chow, we soak it until it is soft but not mushy, and then feed piece by piece by opening the beak and putting it towards the back of the mouth, probably about 20 pieces each feeding. You generally gauge by if the crop seems full or not, and then feed again when crop is empty (generally 3 times a day for a young one).

How to tell if crop is full? It's more difficult in a fully-feathered adult bird, but generally you feel the area below the neck. When the crop is empty, it's flat. After eating, it feels plumpy/squishy (if feeding soft food), and kinda firm if they're full.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

So about 20 pieces of kibble each feeding? 

Sounds good. I will keep feeling their little necks as I feed them to see if I can feel their crops. Yes they are pretty much full feathered adults. Although Zion's feathers still have some yellow fluffies and he chirps like a chicky (or quacks like a duck)

I'm pretty good at feeding them! 
Whatever I drop on their tongues ends up in their crops. I can't see far enough down to make sure I miss the trachea. So I'm not feeding right into their crops.

They had a little water too. They were good for me. 

Thank you for the measurements in MLs. I need this, I was lost on how much of the mixed liquid to give them until now. They can have their meds today!

I'm going to give the medication the same way I gave the water. Gently drop by drop until it is all swallowed. .25mls is so little that I think neither will complain much and I'll feed them again right after. 

So just to make sure I'm doing it right, I gently wrap the bird in a baby towel and lay it on my knees on an angle my right hand comes from behind the head, index finger on the bird's right side, thumb securing the lower part of the beak from the left side. I slide my index along side the birds beak and the bird will open his mouth and his head stays still nicely. 
Seph snaps at me! But not when my hand comes from behind, he can't see my fingers approach his beak and hes not able to bite me if I do it that way. 

Zion could care less hes my little buddy, lets me do anything to him lately. 


I took them out of the dark closet to let them perch on my bookshelf today. Its a regular bird hotel and both birds are well settled in their bird tower hotel.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, to compare the mixed liquid dosing strategies thus far, let's assume a 250 gram bird:

At the 500 mg capsule in the 21 ounces, you've got 500 milligrams of medicine in 621 milliliters (one ounce=29.57 milliliters) so the medicine per milliliter=0.8051 milligrams.

At the (6) 500 mg capsules in the gallon of water, you've got 3000 milligrams of medicine in 3,785.4 milliliters (milliliters per gallone) so the medicine per milliliter=0.7925 milligrams.

So, those are pretty much equivalent. Then you've got the question of how much to actually give the bird. Still assuming a 250 gram bird and going with the water consumption numbers out of the vet books for pigeons that they normally consume 5 to 8% of their weight in water per day, you'd be looking at a total consumption of 12.5 to 20 milliliters of water per day. That would equate to a medicine intake based on the above strategies of 10 to 16 milligrams per day. This dosing strategy usually is for birds who manage their own water intake and so you can flock-treat your entire loft at a time.

I originally quoted one of the pigeon numbers as 100 mg/kg, PO, BID. That particular reference actually included a "QD" so you could go from two to four times per day. Terry quoted a 150 to 200 mg/kg but didn't give a dosing frequency and I couldn't get the link to come up.

So, going with the original (and we'll run the extended range as well) you'd be looking at a 250 gram bird getting 25 milligrams per dose from two to four times per day to provide a daily intake of 50 to 100 milligrams per day, way over the amount that they're going to get from the drinking method. 

Usually, flock treatment methods are almost more preventative in nature and not always accepted as treatment for a truly sick individual. We don't know they're sick, only scared that they might be and don't want to pay the ultimate price if a cat or other predator was involved.

Sabina's mixing method would be preferred in this instance as it gives the correct amount of medicine with minimal additional water with inherently greater control over the medicine that the bird actually gets.

Pidgey


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I think I am going with Sabrina's method. I think it is easiest for me to measure and that way I know my babies are getting a good dose.

I know with a wound that some antibiotics should be given in any animals case.

He dosen't seem to be in pain but it's true that I can give him asprin?

They both look to be pretty average sized healthy birds to me. 

I don't know what is wrong with Zion. He just won't fly at all.

Is he too young to fly? He looks full grown to me. Or is that little wound on his feather bad enough to stop his flight? He flaps up a good fuss when he wants to. I held him so his wings were free and he gave a good gust of wind.

He also jumps off my hand up a half a foot onto the shelf. So who knows why he's not eating and hes being like this. Antibiotics couldn't hurt, what if he actually has something?

My daughter demands cards, I go! LoL


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't give them any pain relievers, it can be fatal. Yes, they can take them but in such tiny amounts that it's difficult to measure properly. Tylenol can do real damage to the liver, too, to the point of killing them very easily. A lot of times, pain makes for a good immobilizer which can keep them from doing more damage, too. However, by their behaviors, I don't see any indication that either is in any real pain.

I'm more of a thought that the one with very few feathers on the wing has a fungal or bacterial skin infection from the filth that has caused a widespread inflammatory response in the skin. This has a tendency with birds to cause the feather follicles to shut down. Let's hope that after some cleanliness and dry that the feathers will restart. That's probably going to take some real time, though.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I see that I've been getting the two birds confused. So, Seph is the one who was clean but is missing the feathers and Zion was the filthy one but has normal wings.

Okay, then, is there any blood on what's left of the wing, dried or otherwise?

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Rycharde

Welcome to the forum and thank you for rescuing these pigeons. 

Couple of cautions - I wouldn't leave either of the pigeons on anything like the shelves you showed in the last picture. Too much danger from a fall which could further damage the wing. They would be much better off in a cage or even on the floor. 

Also, always refrigerate any medicine you mix yourself.

If you have to bathe either of them again, you can use a hair dryer, set on low and held about a foot or more above them, to dry them off so they don't get chilled. Just make sure they don't get too hot. Give them a couple days rest in between baths.

Again, thanks for doing all you are doing for them.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Good point about the refrigeration Maggie.

About the flying, if the pigeon still has some yellow fuzz, then it's likely s/he doesn't know how to fly just yet, probably about to figure it out! Juvenile pigeons look fully grown, but if there's fuzz, that means the pigeon is probably under 4 weeks old. See this page for age: http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

At that age, they often don't know how to eat on their own either. We have a 4 wk old pigeon now who still doesn't know how to eat and is just starting to fly a bit.

You can find lots of useful information on the Resources section of the forum if you haven't checked it out yet, I know it took me a little while to discover it!


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm happy to say Zion and I are bonding very well. We did the meds for him just now and he ate down five pieces of mushy wet alley cat.

I'm taking a moment before I tackle Seph.

Seph was bleeding quite a bit when I got him, I think he was just hit by a car or a cyclist when I found him.

I cleaned the first blood off with a moist warm terry cloth. Then when I did the saline last night there was no blood coming onto my towel so I was happy that its not looking so bad. I think I got the wound clean in quick time. He seems to be content and is now starting to defend himself when I approach.

The birds won't move once you put them down, so thats why they are out of my daughter's reach there on the shelf. Zion being more adjusted is chilling out on my floor.

Seph is a meany, he snaps at my daughter and hates when she is around so he is up on the shelf.

I will put them back in their box when I go out 

Time to suck it up and give Seph his meds.

Could anyone please tell me any health risks to me and my kids? I'm washing my hands a lot when I handle them is that good enough?

My health nurse met them today and she is concerned that they will make me and the babies sick.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

PLease keep in mind that Seph is a wild bird, likely in pain and probably terrified wondering what's to happen next. It's only natural that he would snap. On some level I'm sure he's aware that you are helping him still, try to imagine what it must be like for him.
You and your babies will be ok provided you wash your hand after handling the birds and clean up the poop.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Rycharde,
I'm sure enjoying reading your thread. 
Just general health precautions are all you need to follow with these birds. Always wash hands and the children's hands after being around them. Don't teach them to eat food from your mouth (a Stupid pet trick _ala_ David Letterman; they're likely to get something from you, not the other way around). Try to keep their dishes separate from yours -- just like you would do with any pet, don't leave their prepared food out so someone else can snack on it -- the usual stuff.

You'll be a heck of a lot more likely to catch something from a person than from these sweeties. About the only thing that can happen, just like with most pets, is someone can develop a sensitivity or allergy to feather dust or dander and that would take time, a biological inclination on your body's part, and lots of close contact.

Just wash the stuff you use with them after you're done with it. 



Looks like fun.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks Charis.

Seph was not reacting at all when we first got him. I'm happy to see him fight me off a bit, that means hes not given up on life right?


Hes got some energy back in him today, just took his medicine and ate a little food. He became difficult with the food so instead of stressing him I'll leave him be a little and try again when he seems less stressed.

Zion loves people, hes a baby, hes adjusting. I can walk around with him on my arm and he crawls up onto my chest and shoulder quite well. Hes going to have a complete recovery I'm sure!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, they don't sound like they're in any real danger. When you look at Seph's denuded wing, can you see the actual skin or is there a lot of scabbing? Hopefully, it's like you thought and that a too-close brush with a car blasted off the feathers without taking the feather follicles with them. If the feathers come back, it's going to be several weeks.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

sabina said:


> ....... With a dropper into the mouth, I'd worry about aspirating into the lungs...but maybe other people could speak to having used droppers in the past?
> 
> ............


Sabina, I use a dropper the same way that I use a syringe and place the
drops of medicine (even 2-3 drops of Baytril 10%) into the crop, i.e., 'crop drop' it. I do it specifically w/liquid Baytril because they don't like the taste of Baytril and will frequently shake their head afterwards in response and out flies most likely a combination of saliva and the liquid medication. By 'crop dropping' it, I never lose any after medicating.

I think I posted a link earlier for crop medicating, but here it is again:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

fp


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Purina puppy chow has closer to the right balance of protein etc needed than adult cat food, that would be much better to feed them.

That's interesting about the crop-dropping fp, I wasn't aware of that method!

Oh and it's definitely a good sign that the adult is more feisty, usually they allow themselves to be handled calmly when they're really not well.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Baytril is always the worse to give. We've found that as soon as we put the syringe in and squirt out the med to gently hold the beak together until they swallow.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Any way that gets them to hold onto the medication...if it's placed in the crop
though, they don't seem to know the difference. The dropper will go about
as far down as the syringe. I'm sure holding the mandibles shut won't give them
a chance to lose it either.

Yes, I'll use kitty kibble in a pinch, but I've read that the puppy is better. If you can get a hold of Paul Newman's, that would be great because of the
organic vegetables also included in the ingredients, though any of the better
formulated puppy kibbles would do.

fp


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Wow, what an amazing story so far.  Thanks so much for taking them in, they sound like they're adjusting very well. As everyone has said, you should be fine health-wise as long as you wash your hands and have your children do the same. I lived for many years with my pigeons in the house with us, and had no ill health-effects at all.  Good luck and thanks again for helping these little guys! You're their hero.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

My buddy just had his night dose of amox and he drank it down good. 

As soon as it hits his tongue he smacks his beak together and it slides right down just fine.

We're chilling out with him perched on my lcd screen looking around right now. 

He is looking at where he might want to fly and I know it! Hes only 2 ft off the ground since my pc is on a low table and I know he can fly as far as that. Hes eying both the couch and the bed.

Major concern here. My health nurse was glad to find out that the hand washing and cleaning of the feces would keep a very low risk factor going for health sakes.


BUT

Animal control told her it is illegal to keep pigeons in the house and that if anyone ever found out then they would have to be removed.

Seph isn't cut up bad. He has some tear out damage. His feathers were pretty much ripped out of him.

Mom was walking ahead of me. What happened I think was that he was beaten! Someone shooed him out of their business with a broom and whacked him a few times *cries* they hit my Seph! I should go back and hit them!

Anyway he is safe in a box in my closet because he is high strung, high stress and high risk in my opinion and I only really take him out to feed and clean him.

I really think these guys are doing well with me and I with them so I don't want to hand them to animal control who will put them down I'm sure so what do I do about this by-law, how do I keep them legally? Can I lie and tell the landlord they are messenger pigeons if she ever finds out? Children's Aid visits my home and they will just freak out and take my kids away if I have toxic, illegal birds here. 

They over react to everything!
I need to figure this out. anyways anyone from Ontario know the by-laws?


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