# Mate Squabbles



## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Folks -- How is everyone? Has been awhile since I've been on the site, hope everyone and their pijjies are doing well. Saw the news about Tooterville -- awful, my thoughts and prayers are with Victor and his family and the pijjies.

I have a question about my pair, Pete (hen) and George. During the last month or so, sometimes late in the evening George will start pecking aggressively at Pete while she is sitting on the nest. Eventually Pete will leave the nest, make some sounds of frustration, then try to return to the eggs ... with George starting after her again. Has only happened twice, but I found the behavior a little disturbing, as I have never seen them physically squabble before -- at most, Pete might give George a little "pijjie lecture" if she left the eggs and he did not take a seat. But these two incidents have been pretty aggressive pecks and wingslaps. The first time it happened, I brought George out to the bedroom and made him hang out with me for a few hours in the middle of the night. The second time I put a divider between George and Pete for awhile.

Wanted to get some input from folks if this is normal behavior between mates from time to time, and what I should do to calm down the ornery but lovable George ...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I can't say that I've ever seen this happen. Of course, my mated pairs aren't together 24/7, so the little time they DO spend together, everything is in "honeymoon" mode..........


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Renee -- Hilarious response re: honeymoon. Last time they squabbled, they were kissing and cuddling the next morning. I expect to see the same tonight when I get home. If not, George and I will be spending an entire evening of "quality time" together away from Pete.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

They're just like humans. The more time they spend together, the more likely they are to have a disagreement..........


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I must say that some times I do NOT approve of the treatment the males dish out to their mates. They seem to be very single minded, whereas the females would be content to take an evening out, now and then...hmmm?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Derrick,

Sounds like too much togetherness, and perhaps they need a vacation from each other. Quality time away from each other is a good idea as both may need to get away from nesting duties.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Treesa -- Always good to hear from you, and hope your pijjies are doing well. I think you and Renee may have a point -- Pete and George may need some time apart. One question -- should they be separated in a manner so that they can still see each other, or not see each other? They were able to see each other through divider I put up temporarily, and poor little Georgie seemed upset that he wasn't able to be with his mate.

After their recent incident the other day, they've made up. This morning they were in the nest together, cooing and preening each other. Two things could be factoring into George's obnoxious behavior. First, I feed them snacks while they are on the nest, and George sometimes gets a little aggressive in taking treats away from Pete (I scold him and feed Pete extra treats -- she's no shrinking violet though, and let's George know when he's out of line). I'm thinking that George could be pushing Pete out of the nest in search of treats.

The second thing could be that George feels like they've spent enough time on the eggs and is ready for "woo" time -- perhaps he is obnoxiously trying to get Pete to abandon the eggs.

In any event, I am watching them -- they are back to lovebird status, and these two incidents have been isolated. If George acts up again, I'll give him a "time out" to reflect on his behavior


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Derrick

U agree with the others about separating them for a while. Male pigeons can be ornery at times. We had to bring our ****** in the house a week or so ago because she wasn't feeling well. I think part of the problem was her mate, Ken, was pursuing her so much and she got run down. We have started bringing Ken in for about an hour or two each afternoon and initially he really fusses at her and chases her - like he is reprimanding her for leaving him - but very soon they settle down, all lovey-dovey in ******'s nest.

I would put them so they can see each other.

Good to hear from you.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

dekebrent said:


> Treesa -- Always good to hear from you, and hope your pijjies are doing well. I think you and Renee may have a point -- Pete and George may need some time apart. One question -- should they be separated in a manner so that they can still see each other, or not see each other? They were able to see each other through divider I put up temporarily, and poor little Georgie seemed upset that he wasn't able to be with his mate.
> 
> After their recent incident the other day, they've made up. This morning they were in the nest together, cooing and preening each other. Two things could be factoring into George's obnoxious behavior. First, I feed them snacks while they are on the nest, and George sometimes gets a little aggressive in taking treats away from Pete (I scold him and feed Pete extra treats -- she's no shrinking violet though, and let's George know when he's out of line). I'm thinking that George could be pushing Pete out of the nest in search of treats.
> 
> ...


I think at this point, I'd just leave them be. As long as they aren't squabbling all the time........no harm done. IF you separate them, then need to be totally separated. No seeing. No hearing. Nothing. IMO, that's not good for single birds. At least they have each other. All alone is no good. 
I've got the same problem with my Scooter and Dory. She's always on eggs. Never quits. The only way to separate them is A. put them in individual pens, which would leave them lonely OR B. put Scooter in with my male racers, which, as tough as he THINKS he is, he'd get his little butt kicked quick..........so that's not an option. The only thing left is let them be. I do worry about Dory laying so much. She's such a tiny little thing but, that's just me being a worry wort. She doesn't SEEM to mind.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Maggie -- Great to hear from you, thanks for your thoughts. George definitely has a little of the male pigeon ornery-ness in him ... but he usually reserves his feistiness for my hand and his toys.

Renee -- Pete and Dory sound like they share something in common -- laying regularly. I too worry about Pete, but the vet always says during her regular check-ups that she's the healthiest bird of any species he's examined. As for George's timeout, if necessary I usually bring him out to the bedroom, which is next to the room he and Pete occupy. George will holler a little when I bring him out, but then he settles down, hops up on the bed to explore, settles and takes a nap.

I swear, pijjies are the best ...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Derrick! Welcome BACK!!

Since you have last been on (I think)...I now have TWO more pijies, in addition to Mr. Squeaks. 

I keep Dom and Gimie separated from Squeaks because whenever Squeaks sees Dom, he ATTACKS...being *MR.* Squeaks and OWNER of all he surveys! 

So, Dom and Gimie have exercise time in the bedroom to fly around while Squeaks and the cats stay in the living room.

I've noticed behavior that you mentioned between Dom and Gimie at times too! I THINK Dom is a cock and Gimie the hen, but the jury is still out. There are times that Gimie will peck Dom on top of his head and just hang on!  Then, after their little squabbles, they are fine...

*sigh" Never a dull moment around here!

Hope all goes well with Pete and George and please give them HUGS and SCRITCHES from us!

Shi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Derrick,

Since the short time out seemed to work, I would just give them a short break each time they act like the afore mentioned, and see if you can get their minds on other things. I'm glad she is doing so well.

I sometimes wish I had an extra room to seperate my hens for a period of time to give their "egg laying facilities" a good long break, the hens do get the short end of the stick and get chased to the nest-at least once a month, that is the time they need to take in as much nutrition and calcuim as possible, instead they are forced on the nest. I do sometimes give my males time out when the hen looks exhausted and constantly trying to get some grit or eat. They go into the parrot cage. other then the birds are doing fine, and thanks for asking.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Update on my squabbling mates. Despite the timeouts, appears Georgie still has an ornery streak in him. He still chases Pete around the cubby, despite the fact that she just laid an egg. So I'm giving him a full time out -- he's sleeping with me in the bedroom, and I have him in a cage downstairs during the day. I'm supervising their visits during the evening. I hope George settles down soon ... he and Pete are a cute couple. Meanwhile, George is becoming a TV junkie in the bedroom with me


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

dekebrent said:


> Update on my squabbling mates. Despite the timeouts, appears Georgie still has an ornery streak in him. He still chases Pete around the cubby, despite the fact that she just laid an egg. So I'm giving him a full time out -- he's sleeping with me in the bedroom, and I have him in a cage downstairs during the day. I'm supervising their visits during the evening. I hope George settles down soon ... he and Pete are a cute couple. Meanwhile, George is becoming a TV junkie in the bedroom with me


If Pete just laid an egg, that's why George is chasing her. He wants her in the nest. Are there other birds? Male pigeons do this to make sure that THEY are the dads to the new offspring........he'll chase her until she lays the second egg. After that, he should calm down some. 
I don't know what was going on before, but his behavior is quite normal if his mate is laying eggs. I would suspect that taking him away from her might make him even more agressive once he's back with her. He doesn't understand that you're the reason they are separated. All he understands in his little pigeon head is that his "wife" is laying eggs and he's supposed to be with her and he's not. I don't know if that makes sense or not?
Racing people use these sorts of "tricks" all the time to make their birds return home from a race faster. And it works.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Renee -- Pete and George are my only two birds. He was chasing her before she laid the egg, but not toward the nest -- he chases her off the nest and egg. Previously, Pete was sitting on eggs and George chased her off the eggs as well. I'd love to let him back in w/ his wife, but the little fella was so ornery tonight -- basically taking over the cubby and chasing Pete off her first egg (second is due tomorrow). What you said makes sense -- in part, the separation may make George feel the need to re-establish his territory when I put them together again. I just want to give Pete a break from being chased.

In the meanwhile, I think I just lost another room of my house  George is now perched on my headboard, watching TV and watching me type  He may be ornery, but he's a cute ornery pij ...


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Shi -- I did not forget to respond to your post -- congrats on the new additions! I can imagine that King Squeaks feels the need to let all royal subjects in his kingdom -- you, Dom, Gimie and others -- know that he is indeed THE KING! I will give both hugs and scritches from you, and please give some back to yours from me ...


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

*The Soap Opera Continues*

So Pete and George continue to squabble and fight -- I guess every marriage has its ups and downs  I separated George from Pete so she could lay her second egg in peace, without being chased. I've been supervising their visits for the past couple of days. They're fine for awhile ... but then George creeps over and starts clucking at Pete, Pete's wing starts twitching, then soon after they start pecking and wing-slapping, with Pete eventually getting off her eggs. 

For some reason, George seems to object to Pete sitting on the eggs. I'm trying to figure out why he is having a problem with that. One time, George chased Pete off the eggs and pulled them under his body ... another time, he just chased Pete and ignored the eggs after she flew down for some water and grit.

I'll keep updating, but the arrangement now is separation during the day, supervised visits in the evening with treats, then George sleeps with me in the bedroom. George is a lovable mess ... so cute and lovable when he's hanging out with me watching TV, sitting in my hand or at the foot of the bed ... then be becomes a little terror when he gets into the room with Pete. Never a dull moment with pigeons ...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

LOL

What a relationship!!

I sure hope that George will settle down...maybe with a little more "maturity?" 

Glad he's not attacking you! 

Give them BOTH, HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi and the gang


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

*Update -- Evil George Has Returned *

Pete and George were getting along well for the past couple weeks, even as she was toward the end of sitting on fake eggs. Pete came off the eggs late last week and the two were frolicking around the room, and George began his usual wooing of Pete. Then Pete laid an egg on Sunday, and immediately the fighting resumed -- George attacking the nest area, Pete defending. I tried holding George and talking to him -- alternating between trying to calm him down with some petting and sternly talking to him as he makes his way toward Pete in the cubby -- to no avail, he's on a mission once he's in the cubby near Pete and the nest.

Not sure why Pete's laying of eggs has caused the return of Evil George, the bad husband. Split them up today -- George is in the bedroom watching TV, Pete is in the room on the nest and egg. Looks like I will have to play couples therapist again over the next week ... sigh.


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## pigeonnewb (Jan 18, 2008)

*Roflmao!*

 Too Bad you cant send him to pigeon prison for domestic violence.. LOL That would teach him to beat up his wife LAWLZ!!!  Maybe get a 12"x12" cage call it "THE BRIG" LAWL!


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

*Perhaps It's Not All George*

Just got home from work and took George into Pete's (hen) room for a supervised visit. No surprise that they started fighting again -- oy! However, I noticed that Georgie is not necessarily the aggressor -- actually Pete went after George when he flew into the cubby. She appears to be defending the cubby as her territory, regardless of the fact that George is her mate! Can't figure out what has brought on this behavior -- only when there are eggs involved. Will just keep them separated until they can get along ...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

dekebrent said:


> Just got home from work and took George into Pete's (hen) room for a supervised visit. No surprise that they started fighting again -- oy! However, I noticed that Georgie is not necessarily the aggressor -- actually Pete went after George when he flew into the cubby. She appears to be defending the cubby as her territory, regardless of the fact that George is her mate! Can't figure out what has brought on this behavior -- only when there are eggs involved. Will just keep them separated until they can get along ...


What sort of cubby do they have? When I just read this, I realized that my birds have nest boxes. When either is sitting on the eggs, the other isn't anywhere near. Out in the loft or out in the aviary. If the pair is in an individual breeding pen, they still aren't together. Who ever is on the eggs, is up on the shelf and the other bird is either on a perch or out in the aviary. Maybe they are too confined? I don't know.......just a thought.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Renee -- The birds' cubby is a shelf in a closet that is approx. 26" W X 29" H X 24" Deep -- they have total run of the room, the cubby is a small part, their home base. For the past year plus, they have co-existed peacefully together in their room and cubby. When Pete lays eggs, one sits on the eggs while the other frolics around the room. They've been good about taking turns on the eggs -- they would split the days, and George would take the bulk of the weekend. 

You raise a good point about some separation. George seems to enjoy sleeping in the bedroom with me and hanging out watching TV (although he's getting a little bossy about what we watch ... hah). Pete seems calm on the eggs (second due today), and enjoys me visiting with her for some petting and treats.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

*There Is Peace In the Valley - At Least for Now*

Renee, your advice about a second area for the birds may have been on the money, as Pete and George have made up, at least for the time being (see attached pic). I now leave the door open b/w their room and my bedroom, and they seem to enjoy having the extra room to explore and watch TV. Very cute moment a couple days ago when Georgie led Pete into the room and onto the bed to show her the TV. The peace may have cost me another room in my house ... but well worth it!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm glad things seem to be better. Next they'll want the kitchen, the bathroom, the laundry room.........heck, you might as well just go ahead and move out and let them have the house.!!


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Renee -- I don't think they'd allow me to leave fully -- after all, they need a butler to clean, "cook" (put out fresh seeds and grit), provide fresh bath water


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

I spoke too soon ... ugh. Pete laid an egg yesterday, then kicked George out of the cubby in the middle of the night (I was awakened by a kerfluffle of wings followed by a "thud" as poor Georgie fell to the floor). Back to separate rooms, with George as my roommate in the bedroom  They'll get along again, apparently, in a couple weeks when Pete gets off her eggs.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Derrick, you are such a wonderful and long suffering Pigeon Papa! Bless you for loving your birds as you do and going to such lengths to assure that THEY are happy (even at your expense ).

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Derrick, I am sympathetic even as I am laughing my head off......


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I just read this whole thread but I didn't see where you replace the eggs with dummies and there has been no babies ... did I miss something about the pair? I know you thought Pete was a boy till HE laid an egg .... are you sure George is a boy????


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Maggie & Terry -- I have to laugh at the birds myself, when all is said and done. George is a great roommate, although instead of calling for me at 5:30am for breakfast ... he now flies onto the bed AND grouses until I get up and feed him a treat or two.

Today, Pete laid her second egg, and still will not allow George into the cubby. But she did allow him to visit her room and take a bath with her.

Nona -- I replace the eggs with dummy eggs the day after Pete has the second egg. Good question -- I've wondered from time to time whether I have George's sex correct. I've had George for two years, and he's never laid an egg. He does the mating dance around Pete, including the puffing up of his throat ... and I have seen him attempt to get in the mating position with Pete (he can't balance because of his paralyzed leg, poor thing). Not 100% proof, but I feel pretty sure that George is a he.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, then, just face facts, Derrick ...... some wives are just b i t c h y.


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## dekebrent (Jun 17, 2005)

Nona -- Laughing at your response ... Pete rules the roost around here!


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