# Fledgling with bad Avian Pox...



## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

This fledgling mourning dove has been hanging around our pond and on top of our shed for several days now...his head is completely covered in pox, to the point where he only has 1/2 an eye, but he seems healthy otherwise...he drinks from the pond and can fly a good distance. He preens himself and acts like a normal bird. Obviously his reaction time is slow because of the lesions all over his eyes...we have lots of foxes and cats around here, so i worry about something getting him before he realizes it. From what I have read, birds with pox have a better chance of survival if they are allowed to recover in captivity where food and water are provided....is this little guy too far gone? since he is a fledgling, would i be doing him a disservice by taking him away from his parents to try to see if he can recover? how old do you estimate he is-- will he be able to eat seed on his own by this age?

Sorry for all the questions...I have no experience with wild birds, although I have raised chickens from eggs. Just don't want to harm him in any way-- I will do whatever is best. Thanks!


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

*Help! What do I do with mourning dove fledgling (has pox)?*

reposted elsewhere


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Personally...I would bring the baby in. The baby won't survive on it's own even with mom and dad. He needs to be hand fed and given supportive care until the pox fires up.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I've answered in your other thread. You only need one thread about this or it will get very confusing for all of us....


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the reply...he actually is in a cat carrier right now sleeping-- i just walked right up to him and picked him up...for all his problems, he is quite a feisty little thing though-- managed to escape the first time! Judging from his size/feathering, should he be able to eat small pieces of millet/cracked corn on his own, or should I be helping?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I had a lot of pox victims in my care this year. The pox in your little one is very advanced but its a young pigeon so it has a fighting chance. It could also have canker and bacterial infection with so much pox so I would want to start it on canker treatment and antibiotics.

Personally, I would not like to be handling it around the mouth area unless absolutely necessary, as those pox pustles all around the beak and mouth are full of the virus. You could easily spread it further externally as well as internally if you start handling it in that area. So if you have to feed it by hand, it would be good to do some careful research into a way to offer food without actually manually opening the beak. Hopefully its old enough to eat seed on it own though. If you could get it to eat small parrot pellets , these would be easy to digest and full of protein.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Charis said:


> You only need one thread about this or it will get very confusing for all of us....


*DONE!Yes, please keep same topic in one thread, thank you!*


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

*Treatment for Pox *

*As suggested by one of the members recently in my pigeon group in facebook*

He says he had excellent results.These are his words :

"We know that the best way to avoid Pox is by prevention by innoculating your youngsters, but there are always exceptions:

THUJA OCCIDENTALIS

This is a homeopathic herb used particularly for ill effects of vaccinations, blemishes, wart, polips, flued retention, tumors of Skin, gland, etc in people. It has proved to be a wonderful remedy for Pox in pigeons

Dosage: 3 small tablets for a good size pigeon, 2 for cockatiel size bird.1. For the first two days: use above dose twice a day, preferrably once in the morning and once at night. 2. Thereafter: use same dose once per day.

In two weeks this product will get the pox out of the organs, internally and kick the immune system in gear. 

Topical treatment: You can use Thuja oil topically. This is NOT to be used around eyes or nostrils and beak. Lesions should be completely gone in 2 to 3 days.

You can use Thuja oil on EXTERNAL LESIONS only, not internal. You must use the Thuja pills for internal use.

You can use Tea Tree Oil, deluted with water for external lesions of Pox and/or Canker. Use a Q tip and soak it up and dab on lesion gently. You cannot use the tee trea oil on any open wounds. Make sure the bird cannot pick at it and ingest it. You can also use Colloidal silver on internal and external lesions, as well as Neem oil."


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for posting that, boneyrajan.k that info. is also available here.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f107/natural-healing-10568.html


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

thats great


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella, there is no other way to hand feed, without opening the beak. And with that much pox around the eyes, he probably won't be able to eat on his own, as he won't be able to see the food.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*Warning*

Please see the warning on these 'remedies' as added in 2008 to the thread by Skyeking:




> In two weeks this product will get the pox out of the organs, internally and kick the immune system in gear.
> 
> _Topical treatment: You can use Thuja oil topically. This is NOT to be used around eyes or nostrils and beak. Lesions should be completely gone in 2 to 3 days.
> 
> ...


BTW, what was the original source of this, anyone know?


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

Well, haven't been able to get him to eat...although he will drink water with karo in it if i dip his beak in it first (he likes to dunk his whole head in the water...is that normal?). I have tried yogurt, thawed corn, and seeds....havent been able to get him to consume any of the antibiotics since my plan was to crush and put in yogurt.

He smells terrible...the canker/pox is definitely getting worse so I need to start medicating asap. I did put some clorhexodine on the wounds to help try to start the healing process.

Another very negative note...i noticed that he had pooped some watery diarrheah earlier so I looked at his bum during my lunch break...smelled terrible (rotten and dead) , and upon closer inspection, i discovered maggots. nothing seems to be in this guys favor at all. Spent my lunch break flushing his vent with saline and just went in with tweezers to remove some straggler maggots. Hopefully if i check daily for more maggots and keep the area clean and sterilized as much as possible, it will heal? Although with so many other problems, I really don't have a good feeling anymore....


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

The `maggotts' are probably just adult round worms, which are common in sick wild pigeons. This can be treated easily with a course of moxidectin or another safe pigeon wormer. I would suggest that you order a wormer with the canker medication and antibiotic it needs. That bad smell is usually something the canker med and antibiotic will clear up. 

I've never put anything on the pox lesions myself; they dry up and fall off on their own. According to this pigeon Vet, the external lesions are best left alone because of the risk of spreading the virus and prolonging healing:

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/pigeonpox.html

The lack of eating is a problem, she needs your help quickly with that. Its great that she's drinking on her own though. 

Do you think you can open its beak and put defrosted peas in it carefully?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

PS. Have you thought of trying to feed it like a baby pigeon where you don't have to handle the mouth- like this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bin7rhSLQss

I've seen people use rubber gloves with the tip of one finger nicked off for this too..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Feeding the bird that way would be a lot rougher on the pox nodules, as he would be scraping it on the balloon or tape. Just gently open his beak and put frozen peas in, one at a time. Push the pea to the back of the throat then let him close his beak and swallow.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the great advice! The worms looked pretty tiny for roundworms (but then again I'm pretty familiar with horse parasites, and I don't know anything about birds), but maybe they were immature? His whole vent was so open and raw that I'm still pretty concerned about infection

I just bought some baby bird formula that is supposed to be dissolvable in water...won't solve the nutrition problem, but maybe he can get some nutrition from it at least in the meantime. I haven't been able to really open his mouth, but I'm worried that there are probably lesions in there which will make eating difficult.. 

I also have a question about dosing of meds....I know that metronidazole is suggested for treatment of canker, and I read a bunch of threads about "FishZole"....I went to 3 different pet stores and the best I could do was "ProSeries Anti-Parasitic Fish Medication" which contains 250 mg Metronidazole per packet and also 75 mg Praziquantel. I read that Praziquantel is a wormer used to control tapeworm in various species including birds, but I have NO CLUE what to dose this stuff at...it dissolves in water. Can anyone help me with the dosing? I need to get him started on this asap, as he DEFINITELY has pretty severe canker.

Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If those aren't maggots, which they probably are, you would need to use a wormer that kills tapeworm, as that would be the only worm that might resemble a maggot. And those are more often passed than the other worms that they might carry. Not all wormers kill tapeworm. Moxidectin Plus is good for this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

newbie204 said:


> Thanks for the great advice! The worms looked pretty tiny for roundworms (but then again I'm pretty familiar with horse parasites, and I don't know anything about birds), but maybe they were immature? His whole vent was so open and raw that I'm still pretty concerned about infection
> 
> I just bought some baby bird formula that is supposed to be dissolvable in water...won't solve the nutrition problem, but maybe he can get some nutrition from it at least in the meantime. I haven't been able to really open his mouth, but I'm worried that there are probably lesions in there which will make eating difficult..
> 
> ...


You can't use that med, as it has way too much wormer in it. To give the Metronidazole, you would also be giving the other med. It needs to be just Metronidazole. You can buy it online at Foy's Pigeon Supply


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Forgive me in advance if the question has already been asked, but where are you located?
We may have a member near by that has some medication.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

newbie204 said:


> the best I could do was "ProSeries Anti-Parasitic Fish Medication" which contains 250 mg Metronidazole per packet and also 75 mg Praziquantel.
> 
> Thanks


I have a couple of different wormers here with praziquantel in them. According to these, the maximum dosage per adult bird is 4 mg, and 2mg for a bird under 250 grams.

You will probably have to medicate via the water for now. You can pour half a satchel of powder into 300 mls of water, this will give enough metronidazole without overdosing on praziquantel.

PS. Its not enough to put a biot of formula in the water, the baby needs a certain amount of calories to live and it won't get anywhere near enough that way. 

It needs to be fed somehow, either hand fed or via other ways described earlier.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm in central NJ. But all this is probably pointless if I can't get him to eat....He puts up such a fight and he is so covered in those pox and canker sores that for me to try to restrain him would be a disaster. Even his beak is so deformed with lesions and pox that I cant even really see where the top and bottom are and when i do he just thrashes his head....advice?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

When I open their beaks up, I cradle the pigeon against my body with my left arm and hand, then gently tilt its head back and open the beak up with my right hand, with my left hand keeping its head still.

You can feed defrosted peas, or formula `balls' ie formula with just enough water added to make a ball. I've use soaked dog and cat kibble too, cut into little pieces.

This is a really difficult thing for you to do, its probably the hardest thing you'll do all year! But if you can get that beak open and feed it, it has a chance at life. They really can get better, as awful as they look when the the lesions are so bad.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I don't know how close you are to this place, but it is an option.Mourning Doves are protected and so technically, they are to be turned over to a licensed rehabber or facility. Given the baby's condition, it's hard to saw if they would try to save him or euthanized him. They would have all the meds needed though.You could always call and talk to them and ask questions. 

http://wcinc.org/


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

I have been trying to find a local rehab facility that will take him...very locally we have a rehab that specializes in raptors; however i know from previous experience that they would definitely not take a mourning dove...and certainly not one that is contagious in any way. I wasn't able to get through to any place today and have not been able to find one locally that lists "mourning dove" on its specific species list, but its worth a shot...I am just worried he does not have much time left and he is such a sweet little bird

Unfortunately, my circumstances don't permit me to devote all my efforts to this right now anyway and I know what a huge commitment raising a baby bird, even a healthy one, is! I wish this was all I had to deal with, but given that my mom's cancer recently relapsed and caused her to go totally blind, I have my hands full at home with non-feathered illness as well....


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

For now, you only need to concentrate on feeding it and putting the meds in its the water...half a packet in 300mls of water. The feeding shouldn't take much time today, only 2-3 times. You just need to get past the hump of doing it the first time. Its not a major time commitment.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree...it's a huge emotional commitment especially if you are new to this and have a lot of other commitments.
You can call the rehab I gave you and ask if they can make a recommendation to a rehabber, if they can't take him. Most licensed rehab centers are very qualified to treat many different species.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thats a really good suggestion Charis. The little one needs some expert care for sure.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

definitely needs to be wormed...just pooped all over me...runny white and green with worms.... he has had a little bit of the yogurt/baby bird formula mixture...cant tell how much of it he has actually eaten, but i believe all the beak dabbing has gotten some in at least. he seems to like it when i talk to him, oddly enough, i would think that would make the poor blind thing terrified...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes, Birds are really lovely and interesting like that..they seem to read our intentions from our voices and actions. The ones I care for love a gentle encouraging tone of voice. Poor little guy, the worms wouldn't be helping it get over the illness


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The bird is going to die unless you get food into him now. The defrosted peas would also help to get moisture into him as well. It's easy to do, and takes only minutes a few times a day. Please try this method just until you can make other arrangements.
Please have a look at this post. It shows the remarkable recovery that a pigeon or dove can make from Pox.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/remarkable-recovery-61933.html


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

I literally have tried for 3 hours throughout the course of the day to get food into him. I am at wit's end...no matter how I try to hold him, he struggles and flies away and the nodules break open. He can't see where he is going at all, and the last time he flew away he flew right into a wall and gave himself a nasty bloody beak where one of the pox opened. I have googled videos and read posts to no avail- I feel like I am stressing him out so much at this point by continuing to try-- he ends up literally panting. ( I have no experience with wild birds, but have extensive experience hand feeding chicks from birth, so I have hand fed tiny birds before...just in a totally different situation) I have no clue how to get food into him in a more efficient manner than the yogurt method we have resorted to.....help!


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

If it were "easy to do," in this particular case, I certainly would have been feeding him alread....I know that it is an extreme problem and I am trying to find a solution, but given the nasty state of his beak and inside of his mouth, combined with the fact that he seems to refuse to eat to the point of injury, I am having a difficult time...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you try putting him in the sleeve of a t shirt?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It really is easy. Put a towel on your lap. Hold the bird on your lap and against your tummy. If you are right handed, then have him facing your right. Now come from behind him with your left hand, which you are using to hold him against you. Reach around his head with your left hand and grab the sides of his beak. Now use your right hand and left hand together to open the beak. Put a pea in and push to the back of his throat, and over his tongue. Now when you release the beak, he will have to swallow. If he spits it out, then you didn't push it far enough back. 
Charis' idea of putting him through the sleeve of a T-shirt, with only his head sticking out, is a good one, as he really can't struggle or fly when wrapped this way. I know if you tried this method, you would learn it quickly. You just need to practice, and hold him against you where he can't get away. The T-shirt helps a lot, or some people wrap them in a towel with their head sticking out. Please try it.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

When I was starting out, some people here told me to roll the pigeon up in a towel like a burito, with just the head poking out. That really helped me- its restrains the pigeon almost completely. Then all you need to do is focus on carefully opening the beak.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

This might be a dumb question, but is it possible he just cant really open his beak because of the lesions? I found a similar thread...
/http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/pigeon-unable-to-open-beak-wide-enough-to-be-fed-58148.html

The top of this little guy's beak is about 2 times the size it should be, feels rather squishy to the touch, and seems to be thick with mucous. The beak has a lot of very large growths on both the top and bottom where it connects to the body. Sometimes he randomly moves his head like he is pecking for seeds (even though he can't see what is in front of him), but the tip of his beak fans out and is so wide and misshapen that there is no way he could forage for seeds or pick anything up with it right now even if he could see to do it. 

I tried covering a syringe with the finger of a glove to see if that would help, and it definitely did...although probably not enough. At times he would stretch his neck like he was looking for food, or would very very very slightly open his mouth....We managed to get a small syringe in that way...and then he ran up my arm to my shoulder....and pooped on me again

I tried putting him in a sock which I guess is similar to a T-shirt sleeve, but I still could not get a good handle on his mouth...which is still bloody from our earlier mishap with the wall. I will try the towel method next.

My other question is, can canker cause "sour crop" in wild birds like it does in chickens when things don't pass through correctly and begins to ferment in the crop? Maybe it is just the canker making it hard to tell or look bigger than it is, but his crop does not look empty to me as it should for a bird that hasn't had a good meal in a while....

Sorry for all the questions. Hopefully we will be off to a wildlife rehab center tomorrow....


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

If you've definitely got someone to take him in tomorrow who you trust (not just someone who will put it down- you have to ask questions,like Charis mentioned earlier), then you don't have to worry about things like sour crop etc. The carer will take care of the illness, you can't do anything for it in a night. 

Tonight all you need to do is make sure its hydrated and fed, so it lives long enough to make it to proper care. Its hard to say without being there, but you seem to have a restraining-the-bird/self confidence issue, rather than a beak- won't -open issue. I don't know what else to advise- the bird needs food, and it will die without it


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

PS. Just wanted to mention that that head movement thing you mentioned, like its pecking for seeds in the air , and the wings out - its how the baby begs for food when its starving.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He can't move his head much to get it away from you, causing you to not be able to get a good handle on his beak, if you hold him on your lap, and against your body. Hold him in place with your left hand, while coming around his head from the back. Now you can hold his beak on each side with your left hand. He can't get away as you have him pretty much pinned there. Now you can use both hands to open the beak.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

He was taken here earlier this morning....
http:///theraptortrust.org/

They do a comprehensive medical evaluation right away and I can call after 48 hours to inquire.

He simply has too many problems for me to be able to deal with, even if I could get him fed effectively. If it was a simple case of pox which it looked like from a distance, I would be hopeful...but with the canker....and the maggots... there is just no way (when I woke up this morning, his vent area was a BLOODY, dripping mess of worms again even though last night at midnight after I had cleaned it earlier and removed the maggots-- they are definitely maggots-- it was clean and looked fairly good). On the other hand, despite the problems I have had feeding him, etc, had I left him in the wild, he would certainly be dying a pretty nasty death by now.

The pox actually looked better last night and this morning-- no longer oozing-- but the woman at the rehab facility said, and I quote he is a "total mess"...I called about an hour after I dropped him off and they had not finished evaluating yet, so maybe that is a hopeful sign...at least they did not euthanize him right away. Will let you know what happens and thanks for the help.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Maggots in the vent area is really quite common and it's a terrible sight to see.
I think you did the right thing and I wish you well with all you are going through.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you made the right decision also. Hopefully they will be able to help him. Your taking him in and finding help for him will hopefully give him another chance. Thank you for doing that for him.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I just saw your thread and I hope they are able to save the dove at the Raptor Trust. Just for future reference, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation with a pigeon or a dove and are able to drive to NYC, there's a wonderful bird rehab facility that deals mostly with pigeons and other urban birds called the Wild Bird Fund. http://wildbirdfund.com/
They are extremely experienced since they have about 80 pigeons in their care at any one time and never turn any bird away that has a fighting chance. They also work together with the Raptor Trust by turning over birds of pray after they have stabilized them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

nycpigeonlady said:


> I just saw your thread and I hope they are able to save the dove at the Raptor Trust. Just for future reference, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation with a pigeon or a dove and are able to drive to NYC, there's a wonderful bird rehab facility that deals mostly with pigeons and other urban birds called the Wild Bird Fund. http://wildbirdfund.com/
> They are extremely experienced since they have about 80 pigeons in their care at any one time and never turn any bird away that has a fighting chance. They also work together with the Raptor Trust by turning over birds of pray after they have stabilized them.


Wish we had a place like that around here. I've heard of them before and they sound wonderful.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you were able to give it to someone else, it really needed someone to feed it and then treat it!. Hopefully they won't just euthanize the poor little guy  

I wonder what the poor parent looks like, its pox must be pretty bad too.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes Jay, they are absolutely wonderful and much needed in the city. They just moved the facility to its own building, yet they are always full, so to accommodate the overflow, the rehabbers have their own apartments full of sick and injured pigeons, too. It's a labor of love for everyone who works there - they are all volunteers and do an incredible job.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

yeah, i'm hoping they give him a fighting chance and don't just write him off as too far gone or not worth their time. That little bird is a fighter (heck, he survived at least 3 days in the wild with only one eye!) and I really think that with the appropriate meds he can pull through. I'm scared to call and find out if he made it As for his mom, I believe I saw her on the shed roof with him one day-- she was a little on the small side, but she did not appear to have the pox anywhere near as badly as he did...we have a lot or mourning doves everywhere in our yard and I haven't seen any others that appear to have it (at least not as bad_, but now I will be keeping an eye out.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

In pigeons, its the Dad that feeds the babies at that age, not sure if thats the case in doves but it probably is.. He could have died already. That could explain the poor condition of the fledgling too.

It really was in poor state, I don't know if I could have pulled it through myself. The ones I saved this year with pox had it on their feet , around their eyes and mouth- the worst one couldn't close its mouth for a whole month because the pox was so big around the gape area. 

But the ones that got it around the ears and covered both sides of the face, I couldn't save them. I have a theory that the pox goes down the ear canal into the brain,but no way to know if that's a valid idea. The death was rapid and awful to watch  

For your little one, I suppose his best chance is if the pustules are canker, not pox. The recovery can be quite rapid once canker meds are given.


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## newbie204 (Jul 8, 2012)

well i really have no reason to actually think that the dove I saw him (or her) with was a parent anyway, especially since we have so many doves in our yard I guess. My point was more that with the prevalence of doves in our yard, I would think if we had a chronic problem with pox this severe, it would have been noticed (given that most birds with this severity would die in the wild, I would still think that in the beginning and intermediate stages it would be noticeable..?)

This fledgling was acting like a fairly normal fledgling up until right before the lesions multiplied and I took him in ...I had been seeing him for several days and he appeared to be pretty fat and would fly to the pond, drink, sit and preen himself, then fly distances of probably 40 feet or so, maybe more...so I think a parent probably must have been feeding him up until that point. If he hadn't been acting so darn normal, I probably would have paid more attention to how bad it was and caught him earlier to take him in. Hopefully I don't find any more...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

It is a very contagious disease, but this one probably got it directly from the parent's crop during feeding, poor thing. If it had have been a healthy parent, it would have passed on antibodies to protect the baby's health, for around 2-3 weeks or more after it had left the nest. That's why I thought the father must be sick too (or passed away).

I know what you mean about doves. I get spotted turtle doves in my yard but have only ever seen one that was ill. Because they mingle with rock pigeons and get the same illnesses, I feel that they must get sick, but are probably just a lot more secretive about illness.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pox is spread by mosquitoes, so a mosquito could have bitten the young one and spread the disease to him. Especially where he is hanging around a pond. Even if the parent bird were healthy, he couldn't have passed on antibodies to protect the baby from the pox. Actually, the baby could have gotten it first and passed it on to his parents even.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think it *most likely* the baby got pox from mosquitoes.

tp://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00

Sorry the link doesn't work.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

According to this link below, Mossies are just one way pox is transmitted.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00.html

`` pox can also be transmitted by direct contact between infected and susceptible birds. The virus is transmitted through abraded or broken skin or the conjunctiva (mucous membrane covering the anterior surface of the eyeball). Indirect transmission of the pox virus can also occur via ingestion when food and water sources, feeders, perches, cages, or clothing are contaminated with virus-containing scabs shed from the lesions of an infected bird. The pox virus is highly resistant to drying and may survive months to years in the dried scabs. Indirect transmission can also occur via inhalation of pox virus infected dander, feather debris and air-borne particles.'''


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Of course, Bella. Given though, the baby was next to a pond and mosquitoes are attracted to water, I think they seem most likely cause. As the baby was hatched outside, I doubt feather debris and air-borne particles were much of an issue in this instance. We will never know for sure though. I just hope the baby survives.
Thanks for fixing the link.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I see what you mean, with the water nearby. It does look like a good place for mosquitoes. 

I was thinking that given the amount of feathers, poop, and debri in a pigeon nest , and especially the ability to directly transfer the virus via feeding the baby & billing, then those things would also be high risk methods of transfer. 

Or are you saying that billing is not high risk method of transferring a the virus in your experiences & observations?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Bella_F said:


> I see what you mean, with the water nearby. It does look like a good place for mosquitoes.
> 
> I was thinking that given the amount of feathers, poop, and debri in a pigeon nest , and especially the ability to directly transfer the virus via feeding the baby & billing, then those things would also be high risk methods of transfer.
> 
> *Or are you saying that billing is not high risk method of transferring a the virus in your experiences & observations?*


Yes...that's what I'm saying.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I see, thanks. But what about transmission via feather dander- the baby pigeons would be smothered by it for several weeks when the parents sit on them?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think that is rare too but more common in a loft situation especially one with poor ventilation.
Recently, I had an opportunity to buy a place on over an acre. It would have been a great place for a pigeon sanctuary. However, one of the reasons I decided against it was because of a large natural pond on the property. The property was also bordered by a acres of wetlands. The mosquitos presented too much of a problem for my comfort level. It just screamed...pox!


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Charis said:


> Recently, I had an opportunity to buy a place on over an acre. It would have been a great place for a pigeon sanctuary. However, one of the reasons I decided against it was because of a large natural pond on the property. The property was also bordered by a acres of wetlands. The mosquitos presented too much of a problem for my comfort level. It just screamed...pox!


Oh, that's too bad....a pigeon sanctuary would have been so wonderful. Naturally, you wouldn't want one that facilitates the spread of disease. I hope another opportunity comes your way one day, so you can still make this happen.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Congratulations on purchasing a property, that must feel so awesome! 
Its very stressful going through pox outbreaks year after year, so I understand you not wanting to put birds through it. And it gets into the native birds too, so you'd probably end up having your hands full caring for them as well as your rescued/rehomed birds. 

Are you going have other animals or birds there with you?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella, you misunderstood Charis. She decided against buying it because of the pond. She does however already own her own place. And she already runs a zoo now, on top of all the rehabs she is constantly taking in. She just doesn't stop.


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