# very hard brathing pigeon



## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

hello,
Three weeks ago I found a pigeon two weeks ago I have treated him for ornithosis. for one week it was ok but since yesterday he has a big trouble with breathing. He breathes very heavy. I am giving him a doxicicline but there's no improvement. What should I give him, perhaps to inhale. There is no pigeon vet.Please help me!thank you in advance.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What other symptoms does the bird have? Is there any rasping while breathing? It is possible this is not respiratory? What meds are you giving it? What does the poop look like? Any idea if this is a male or hen?

PLEASE be sure to keep the bird hydrated and feed if it is not eating on its own and keep bird warm.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Trees Gray said:


> What other symptoms does the bird have? Is there any rasping while breathing? It is possible this is not respiratory? What meds are you giving it? What does the poop look like? Any idea if this is a male or hen?
> 
> PLEASE be sure to keep the bird hydrated and feed if it is not eating on its own and keep bird warm.


Hi, a think he got a temerature. I am giving himan ornicure doxicicline 260 mg. I am tying to watered him regulary. Pops are ok as for pigeon. When he breathes there is a strange sound in his loungs like: click-click. There iare no other visible sympthoms.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Angua, sometimes if they get canker in the mouth and throat area it can cause breathing problems, making it sound like a respiratory infection, when it is a canker infection. You need to open you birds mouth and check to see, use a small flashlight, if there are any cheesy growths in the mouth area, make sure his glottis (hole to his trachea, breathing tube) is not swollen or obstructed. I would add two other drugs to the Doxycycline (even if you don't see any growths to be safe for him) Metronidazole 50mg/kg twice a day and Baytril (Enrofloxacin) 20mg/kg once a day or Norfloxacin 20mg/kg twice a day. 

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Angua, sometimes if they get canker in the mouth and throat area it can cause breathing problems, making it sound like a respiratory infection, when it is a canker infection. You need to open you birds mouth and check to see, use a small flashlight, if there are any cheesy growths in the mouth area, make sure his glottis (hole to his trachea, breathing tube) is not swollen or obstructed. I would add two other drugs to the Doxycycline (even if you don't see any growths to be safe for him) Metronidazole 50mg/kg twice a day and Baytril (Enrofloxacin) 20mg/kg once a day or Norfloxacin 20mg/kg twice a day.
> 
> Karyn


thank you. I'll give a try. I am a little desperated.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

angua said:


> Hi, a think he got a temerature. I am giving himan ornicure doxicicline 260 mg. I am tying to watered him regulary. Pops are ok as for pigeon. When he breathes there is a strange sound in his loungs like: click-click. There iare no other visible sympthoms.


How much Doxycycline are you giving him exactly, what dose every time you give the med to him and how are you giving it to him (please be precise with detail)?

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> How much Doxycycline are you giving him exactly, what dose every time you give the med to him and how are you giving it to him (please be precise with detail)?
> 
> Karyn


1 g for 1 l of water. every 2 hours 0,5 ml of this solution directly to the beak.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

sorry 1 g for 0,5 l of water.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Angua, if it were my bird I would dissolve one 260mg pill into 5mL (1 teaspoon, use a cooking teaspoon) of water and grind/shake until dissolved, this will be a 5.2% solution (52mg/mL) and I would then give my bird this at a rate of 25mg/kg, twice a day. So, if your bird weighed 350 grams he would get 0.17 (just below the second line on a 1cc syringe) twice a day of this (this will be 8.84mg) twice a day. Doing it this way will be more precise. and make sure he is getting enough med. If you are even a little unsure of anything, just post a weight for your bird and I'll help you with dosing, or if you get the other meds, dosing with them as well.

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Angua, if it were my bird I would dissolve one 260mg pill into 5mL (1 teaspoon, use a cooking teaspoon) of water and grind/shake until dissolved, this will be a 5.2% solution (52mg/mL) and I would then give my bird this at a rate of 25mg/kg, twice a day. So, if your bird weighed 350 grams he would get 0.17 (just below the second line on a 1cc syringe) twice a day of this (this will be 8.84mg) twice a day. Doing it this way will be more precise. and make sure he is getting enough med. If you are even a little unsure of anything, just post a weight for your bird and I'll help you with dosing, or if you get the other meds, dosing with them as well.
> 
> Karyn


thank you. the problem is that I have powder not a pill. There is saschet od 4 g of doxycicline. it is suggested to solve it in 2 l of water.I am wondering of making an inhalation of gentamecine or another antibiotic with using of inhaler.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi angua,


Can you post some images of the Pigeon?

And, also, of his poops/urates?


Triple Sulfa, or 'DIVET' ( Trimethaprim Sulfaquinoxaline ) would be well worth considering to include.


Is he eating alright?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If you don't mind me asking, where basically are you?

I'll have to look up that Gentamicin dosage.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where basically are you?
> 
> I'll have to look up that Gentamicin dosage.
> 
> Pidgey


I am in Poland. Thank you for looking up.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

pdpbison said:


> Hi angua,
> 
> 
> Can you post some images of the Pigeon?
> ...


Poops and eating ok.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Hmm... what I've got is a syringe full that I got from my vet and the instructions say to use 0.5 mL to 9 mL water or saline for nebulization. What I don't know is the concentration (how much actual medication is in there). Looking it up, the injectable is usually 100 mg/mL, so it's a 10 percent solution. That said, the dose would actually be 4.5 milligrams that the bird got in a nebulized treatment IF... the bird actually breathed in the whole thing, which he wouldn't. So, if you can actually get your hands on some Gentamicin (Gentacin, Gentocin and a few other trade names), that would be the dosing that you're looking at.

In any case, there are other possibilities like air sac mites or even those horrible worms that they get in their airways called "gapeworms". That's kinda' why I was asking you where you are.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi angua,



Gentamycin can permenently destroy their inner Ear functions, causing deafness and perpetual loss of Balance...and hence total misery from then on.


I would steer clear of that Drug, if it were me.


Far as poops/urates go, there might be aspects to these which come can interpret, even if others unfamiliar with nuances may think they are 'okay'.

It is also very unlikely that a Pigeon having severe anaemia or respiratory infection, would be making 'okay' poops and urates.


Anyway...



Can you open his Beak under a strong Light, and, inspect his Mouth and Throat?


Have a look at his Trachae ( the teminal end of his 'Wind Piipe', the opening closest to you ) , and see if there is anything to note about it.


If all is a healthy 'pink', great.

If more like a 'purple', or any 'white' slime or film or anything not healthy 'pink' is seen, let us know.


Phil
Lv


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> I am in Poland. Thank you for looking up.


Oh, Poland... I spent a month there back in 1980, several months before Lech Walesa climbed over the fence. Have fond memories of having pizza z pieczarkami in Gdansk out under the sun on a cool day in May.

Anyhow, sometimes there are diseases and parasites that are worse in certain regions that we don't see in other places. I'm not familiar with anything in particular that you might have there, though.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Hmm... what I've got is a syringe full that I got from my vet and the instructions say to use 0.5 mL to 9 mL water or saline for nebulization. What I don't know is the concentration (how much actual medication is in there). Looking it up, the injectable is usually 100 mg/mL, so it's a 10 percent solution. That said, the dose would actually be 4.5 milligrams that the bird got in a nebulized treatment IF... the bird actually breathed in the whole thing, which he wouldn't. So, if you can actually get your hands on some Gentamicin (Gentacin, Gentocin and a few other trade names), that would be the dosing that you're looking at.
> 
> In any case, there are other possibilities like air sac mites or even those horrible worms that they get in their airways called "gapeworms". That's kinda' why I was asking you where you are.
> 
> Pidgey


I have 40 mg gentamicin. Should I do 10 % solution?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, don't worry about Gentamicin used this way, Phil--it won't absorb into the body. About the only way that you can cause the deafness and renal damage is to inject it. 

Be sure you understand that, Angua--Gentamicin is ONLY to be used as a nebulized treatment for respiratory functions.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> I have 40 mg gentamicin. Should I do 10 % solution?


Tell me everything about this particular Gentamicin that you've got...

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Oh, Poland... I spent a month there back in 1980, several months before Lech Walesa climbed over the fence. Have fond memories of having pizza z pieczarkami in Gdansk out under the sun on a cool day in May.
> 
> Anyhow, sometimes there are diseases and parasites that are worse in certain regions that we don't see in other places. I'm not familiar with anything in particular that you might have there, though.
> 
> Pidgey


pizza z pieczrkami in Gdansk nice memories
Frankly speaking - I don't have any idea what to do to help that pigeon. there is any avian pet.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> pizza z pieczrkami in Gdansk nice memories
> Frankly speaking - I don't have any idea what to do to help that pigeon. there is any avian pet.


Dipped my feet in the Baltic and it was freezing cold water, too!

Do you have a nebulizer and a setup for this kind of thing? If so, and if your Gentamicin is basically the same, I'd use the same instructions that I just read off. I've seen it work wonders before.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

angua said:


> I have 40 mg gentamicin. Should I do 10 % solution?


This is gentamicinum 40 mg/1 ml solution for injection and infusions. yes, I know it is only for inhalation.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi angua,


If you wish to help this Pigeon, it is necessary for you to provide details we are asking for, in order for us to narrow down what kind of affliction he has, in order to then decide what kind of treatment would be best.

If he has Gape Worms, Pnuemonia, Respiratory infection, Canker, anemia, or as may be, all of these require different kinds of Medicines.

Hence...

Images of the Pigeon?

Images of the poops/urates?


Your report on having examined his Mouth, Throat, and Trachea?


Like that...


Otherwise, we have nothing to go on to determine what sort of issue it is, in order to help you help the Pigeon.


Best wishes!



Phil
Lv


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Dipped my feet in the Baltic and it was freezing cold water, too!
> 
> Do you have a nebulizer and a setup for this kind of thing? If so, and if your Gentamicin is basically the same, I'd use the same instructions that I just read off. I've seen it work wonders before.
> 
> Pidgey


I have inhaler for human


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, okay, that sounds like it's 80% of the strength of the stuff that I've got. So, I'd probably just go with the same instructions--1/2 mL in 9 mL of water/saline and go for it.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> I have inhaler for human


Don't suppose you can take a picture of the "inhaler" and post it here, can you?

What they usually do for birds and other small animals is put them in a box with the nebulizer making a fog that's blown into the box. There's always a venting area with foam or a cloth to keep the fog from going out into the room. I think there's an old post around here detailing the setup. You can usually rig one up if need be.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Oh, okay, that sounds like it's 80% of the strength of the stuff that I've got. So, I'd probably just go with the same instructions--1/2 mL in 9 mL of water/saline and go for it.
> 
> Pidgey


thank you very much for your help! I will try and I will let you know if you want.
Baltic is still cold Best regards from Szczecin,Poland


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a repost with further nebulization instructions:

It's a simple process, really. The patient goes in a clear tank like an aquarium with a couple of holes in the side (but they don't have to be). The exact same plastic nebulizer that's used on us is plugged into one of the holes and there is a small compressor to pump air through (kinda' like a supersized aquarium air pump). It essentially bubbles up through the medicine/saline mixture in the nebulizer and makes the fog that gets blown into the tank with the patient. The nebulizer portion can be gotten cheap or even for nothing if you know someone working at a hospital where they throw away used ones all the time although you'd still need to construct the box and get a compressor. There are portable, tabletop ones like this:

http://www.portablenebs.com/

There are also hand pump models like this but you'd get pretty tired... :

http://www.allergybegone.com/devlexplaspo.html

And here's a real find--this one from a rat-rescue site has illustrations and explanations:

http://www.ratfanclub.org/nebuliz.html

Anyhow, if you're going to need actual medicine to use in the nebulizer then the hassle of getting that can be half the battle. I haven't needed one before so I've only played with the thought up to this point.

I should point out that Unie's breathing rate was not affected--it was still slow and deep. It was just the phlegm that was her immediate problem. You see, there are common bacterial and other infections that can cause a temporary anemia in them which can simulate a respiratory problem and you might see the breathing rate go high. If that's the case, then a nebulizer treatment could well be a bad idea unless the infection that's causing it is indeed in the lungs.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Don't suppose you can take a picture of the "inhaler" and post it here, can you?
> 
> What they usually do for birds and other small animals is put them in a box with the nebulizer making a fog that's blown into the box. There's always a venting area with foam or a cloth to keep the fog from going out into the room. I think there's an old post around here detailing the setup. You can usually rig one up if need be.
> 
> Pidgey


I was thinging of using the human inhaler to make the one you have described


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> thank you very much for your help! I will try and I will let you know if you want.
> Baltic is still cold Best regards from Szczecin,Poland


I loved the Lody--it had a fantastically wholesome goodness to it!

Yes, keep us posted as to how it's going. Best of luck.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> I was thinging of using the human inhaler to make the one you have described


Sometimes, all you can do is try. I don't know what kind of human inhaler you've got, but many of them require some kind of compressed air source or a pump of some kind.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Here's a repost with further nebulization instructions:
> 
> It's a simple process, really. The patient goes in a clear tank like an aquarium with a couple of holes in the side (but they don't have to be). The exact same plastic nebulizer that's used on us is plugged into one of the holes and there is a small compressor to pump air through (kinda' like a supersized aquarium air pump). It essentially bubbles up through the medicine/saline mixture in the nebulizer and makes the fog that gets blown into the tank with the patient. The nebulizer portion can be gotten cheap or even for nothing if you know someone working at a hospital where they throw away used ones all the time although you'd still need to construct the box and get a compressor. There are portable, tabletop ones like this:
> 
> ...


The phlegm is problem. Tomorrow I am going to vet. She is a little bit familiar with birds.I got the pill aginst phlegm. I will try then too.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Sometimes, all you can do is try. I don't know what kind of human inhaler you've got, but many of them require some kind of compressed air source or a pump of some kind.
> 
> Pidgey


there is a pump. it is mechanical inhaler for intensive use


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> I loved the Lody--it had a fantastically wholesome goodness to it!
> 
> Yes, keep us posted as to how it's going. Best of luck.
> 
> Pidgey


lody nice sometimes you can get the oldfashioned type and taste of it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

By the way, I screwed that up--it's probably 40% of the stuff that I've got--you'd want to use one (1) full mL in the 9 mL of water. Sorry!

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> lody nice sometimes you can get the oldfashioned type and taste of it.


Yeah, if you want the good kind here, you almost have to make it yourself these days. "Progress" isn't always good.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Yeah, if you want the good kind here, you almost have to make it yourself these days. "Progress" isn't always good.
> 
> Pidgey


sometimes in little towns you can came across a very good ice creams. Thank you one more time for your help. I will let you know tommorow. best regards


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> By the way, I screwed that up--it's probably 40% of the stuff that I've got--you'd want to use one (1) full mL in the 9 mL of water. Sorry!
> 
> Pidgey


I have missed that message and I did an inhalation using 1/2 ml genta and 9 salina. I think there should be second inhalation in the afternoon, so I will use 1 ml genta and 9 salina.Now I am wondering how to get rid off phlegm. I got some pills but they can't be used with another med:/. One more time-thak you!


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

angua said:


> I have missed that message and I did an inhalation using 1/2 ml genta and 9 salina. I think there should be second inhalation in the afternoon, so I will use 1 ml genta and 9 salina.Now I am wondering how to get rid off phlegm. I got some pills but they can't be used with another med:/. One more time-thak you!


by the way how often should I inhale him?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

angua said:


> thank you. the problem is that I have powder not a pill. There is saschet od 4 g of doxycicline. it is suggested to solve it in 2 l of water.I am wondering of making an inhalation of gentamecine or another antibiotic with using of inhaler.


Angua, I am sorry, when you said you had 260mg Doxycycline I thought that these were the pills/capsules you had, I thought the sizing was a bit odd, but you never know in foreign countries just what their way of packaging may be. Dealing with 4gm is not a real problem. Take the 4gm and place it on a shiny magazine cover and divide it into 4 equal piles/amounts. Then take one of these piles and divide it in half and you will have 500mg, put the larger amount together in some foil and put away (you will know you have 3gm there) and put the other 500mg in some foil, you will know you have 500mg there.

Just add the 500mg to 10mL of water (2 teaspoons, use cooking teaspoon or syringe to measure water out) and you will have a 5% solution (50mg/mL) and give your bird 0.05cc/mL for every 100 grams of body weight (this will equal the same dose as suggested before, 25mg/kg). So again, if your bird weighed 350gm, you would give him 0.175cc/mL (this will be 8.75mg), twice a day, again just below the second line on a 1cc syringe. Would be nice to also give your bird some Enrofloxacin (Baytril) if possible today at 20mg/kg once a day.

Your bird needs to be keep very well hydrated to help thin the mucus and when I had a bird with a severe respiratory infection, my bird was being nebulized twice a day, but by the time you do one, Pidgey will most likely be back to this thread to advise further on frequency. You mentioned you are going to try something to thin the mucus, if it is Guaifenesin, please be very careful with dosing with this drug, as the amounts to be given to a bird are extremely minute/small (0.8mg/kg BID, this is less than 1mg a kilo, typically Guaifenesin comes in 250mg or 500mg capsules) and too large a dose will have a sedative/narcotizing effect on the bird, and slow his breathing rate way down, not something you want in a bird already in respiratory distress.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> I have missed that message and I did an inhalation using 1/2 ml genta and 9 salina. I think there should be second inhalation in the afternoon, so I will use 1 ml genta and 9 salina.Now I am wondering how to get rid off phlegm. I got some pills but they can't be used with another med:/. One more time-thak you!


Well, it's not the most perfect science in the world because the bird can actually only breathe so much of the stuff. Part of the therapy involves the amount of time that the bird is exposed. In reality, that's a lot more drug (either way) than the bird's actually going to get and various nebulizers can take significantly different amounts of time to nebulize the entire amount. That said, the actual amount of drug inhaled can vary quite a bit. It would probably make more sense for the formularies to give the amount of time exposed at the recommended concentration but they don't really do that. So... the torture of not knowing if you've done enough or not is just how it is. In any case, it has usually taken about 30 to 45 minutes to complete a course every time that I've seen it done. If your nebulizer did it in 20 minutes, you'd probably want the concentration to be more and if it took a lot longer, less would be fine.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Angua, I am sorry, when you said you had 260mg Doxycycline I thought that these were the pills/capsules you had, I thought the sizing was a bit odd, but you never know in foreign countries just what their way of packaging may be. Dealing with 4gm is not a real problem. Take the 4gm and place it on a shiny magazine cover and divide it into 4 equal piles/amounts. Then take one of these piles and divide it in half and you will have 500mg, put the larger amount together in some foil and put away (you will know you have 3gm there) and put the other 500mg in some foil, you will know you have 500mg there.
> 
> Just add the 500mg to 10mL of water (2 teaspoons, use cooking teaspoon or syringe to measure water out) and you will have a 5% solution (50mg/mL) and give your bird 0.05cc/mL for every 100 grams of body weight (this will equal the same dose as suggested before, 25mg/kg). So again, if your bird weighed 350gm, you would give him 0.175cc/mL (this will be 8.75mg), twice a day, again just below the second line on a 1cc syringe. Would be nice to also give your bird some Enrofloxacin (Baytril) if possible today at 20mg/kg once a day.
> 
> ...


Hi, thank you for information it was very useful I have to check the polish name of Enrofloxacin (Baytril). I did the second inhalation I think it is better. For the mucus I will try A.S. antyslime (by Pharma Belgica de Weerd)- thnak you for warninig about Guaifenesin.
thank you one more time!
best regards
Angua


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

angua said:


> Hi, thank you for information it was very useful I have to check the polish name of Enrofloxacin (Baytril). I did the second inhalation I think it is better. For the mucus I will try A.S. antyslime (by Pharma Belgica de Weerd)- thnak you for warninig about Guaifenesin.
> thank you one more time!
> best regards
> Angua


You could also use Norfloxacin (brand names Norflox, Noroxin) or Ciprofloxacin (brand names Cifran, Ciloxan, Ciplox) at 20mg/kg, but instead of once a day dosing for both of these drugs, you would do twice a day dosing, so 20mg/kg every 12 hours.

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

As you mentioned i takes 35-45 minutes. Two times a day it is OK?
Best regards


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Well, it's not the most perfect science in the world because the bird can actually only breathe so much of the stuff. Part of the therapy involves the amount of time that the bird is exposed. In reality, that's a lot more drug (either way) than the bird's actually going to get and various nebulizers can take significantly different amounts of time to nebulize the entire amount. That said, the actual amount of drug inhaled can vary quite a bit. It would probably make more sense for the formularies to give the amount of time exposed at the recommended concentration but they don't really do that. So... the torture of not knowing if you've done enough or not is just how it is. In any case, it has usually taken about 30 to 45 minutes to complete a course every time that I've seen it done. If your nebulizer did it in 20 minutes, you'd probably want the concentration to be more and if it took a lot longer, less would be fine.
> 
> Pidgey


As you mentioned i takes 35-45 minutes. Two times a day it is OK?
Best regards


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> You could also use Norfloxacin (brand names Norflox, Noroxin) or Ciprofloxacin (brand names Cifran, Ciloxan, Ciplox) at 20mg/kg, but instead of once a day dosing for both of these drugs, you would do twice a day dosing, so 20mg/kg every 12 hours.
> 
> Karyn


Thank you


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

angua said:


> As you mentioned i takes 35-45 minutes. Two times a day it is OK?
> Best regards


Sure. Like I said, this drug isn't actually absorbed into the system across the membranes, so it's only doing battle on the surfaces to bacterial colonies that aren't technically living IN the body. It can, however, sterilize the gut which can be a small, but correctable, problem down the road. Anyhow, the extra inhaled saline will help the bird expectorate (cough up) the phlegm. 

Of course, we still have to worry that it's not actually caused by that--it certainly can be caused by air sac mites or something else that might require a completely different drug. Just keep us posted and try doing some research on air sac mites and gapeworms in your area.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Sure. Like I said, this drug isn't actually absorbed into the system across the membranes, so it's only doing battle on the surfaces to bacterial colonies that aren't technically living IN the body. It can, however, sterilize the gut which can be a small, but correctable, problem down the road. Anyhow, the extra inhaled saline will help the bird expectorate (cough up) the phlegm.
> 
> Of course, we still have to worry that it's not actually caused by that--it certainly can be caused by air sac mites or something else that might require a completely different drug. Just keep us posted and try doing some research on air sac mites and gapeworms in your area.
> 
> Pidgey


I have visited my vet today, she said it is rather mycoplasmosis to her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Mycoplasmatales generally don't cause primary illness in pigeons. They're certainly a complicating problem in certain cases, but the bird didn't get sick strictly because of them. Anyhow, we generally add Tylosan to the Doxycycline to help get those but they can be quite refractory (hard to get rid of).

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Mycoplasmatales generally don't cause primary illness in pigeons. They're certainly a complicating problem in certain cases, but the bird didn't get sick strictly because of them. Anyhow, we generally add Tylosan to the Doxycycline to help get those but they can be quite refractory (hard to get rid of).
> 
> Pidgey


Hi,
I don't know if in Poland you can get Tylosin. I will check tommorow.I don' t know if he is better, he eats normal, drink normal and sleeps a lot, but still breathing with difficulty. I am a bit worry about giving him additionally norfloxacinum (as Dobato said in previous post)- I am not sure if is not too much of antibioticsfor one time.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Angua, I am sorry, when you said you had 260mg Doxycycline I thought that these were the pills/capsules you had, I thought the sizing was a bit odd, but you never know in foreign countries just what their way of packaging may be. Dealing with 4gm is not a real problem. Take the 4gm and place it on a shiny magazine cover and divide it into 4 equal piles/amounts. Then take one of these piles and divide it in half and you will have 500mg, put the larger amount together in some foil and put away (you will know you have 3gm there) and put the other 500mg in some foil, you will know you have 500mg there.
> 
> Just add the 500mg to 10mL of water (2 teaspoons, use cooking teaspoon or syringe to measure water out) and you will have a 5% solution (50mg/mL) and give your bird 0.05cc/mL for every 100 grams of body weight (this will equal the same dose as suggested before, 25mg/kg). So again, if your bird weighed 350gm, you would give him 0.175cc/mL (this will be 8.75mg), twice a day, again just below the second line on a 1cc syringe. Would be nice to also give your bird some Enrofloxacin (Baytril) if possible today at 20mg/kg once a day.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I am worry about giving him next antybiotic, maybe it is too much?


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

angua said:


> Hi, thank you for information it was very useful I have to check the polish name of Enrofloxacin (Baytril). I did the second inhalation I think it is better. For the mucus I will try A.S. antyslime (by Pharma Belgica de Weerd)- thnak you for warninig about Guaifenesin.
> thank you one more time!
> best regards
> Angua


Hi,
how long should I give him that concentration? 
Best regards


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Angua,

You don't need to worry about giving him a systemic antibiotic with nebulized Gentamicin because the Gentamicin isn't actually absorbed into the system. It's about like having iodine on the outside of your skin--won't have any effect or any interaction with taking an oral antibiotic.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Hello,
Thank all of you for all your tips, I think he is better. He is on Doxy and Tylosufan ( polish Tylosan, I think).Unfortunaletelly he is still gasping and panting.


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> Mycoplasmatales generally don't cause primary illness in pigeons. They're certainly a complicating problem in certain cases, but the bird didn't get sick strictly because of them. Anyhow, we generally add Tylosan to the Doxycycline to help get those but they can be quite refractory (hard to get rid of).
> 
> Pidgey


Hi, 
how much of Tylosin should I use? 
best regards


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

You can give the Tylosin at the same rate as the Doxycycline, 25mg/kg, twice a day (give along with the Doxycycline). Glad to hear you think he is a bit better. Have a good look at his glottis (windpipe opening) and use a small flashlight to look down his windpipe, the best you can, to make sure nothing is blocking it.

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> You can give the Tylosin at the same rate as the Doxycycline, 25mg/kg, twice a day (give along with the Doxycycline). Glad to hear you think he is a bit better. Have a good look at his glottis (windpipe opening) and use a small flashlight to look down his windpipe, the best you can, to make sure nothing is blocking it.
> 
> Karyn


Hi,
Actually today runny nose has occured.After inhalations it is better for few hours.
Angua


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> You can give the Tylosin at the same rate as the Doxycycline, 25mg/kg, twice a day (give along with the Doxycycline). Glad to hear you think he is a bit better. Have a good look at his glottis (windpipe opening) and use a small flashlight to look down his windpipe, the best you can, to make sure nothing is blocking it.
> 
> Karyn


should I dislove it in 10 ml of water?
Angua


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I wouldn't give the Tylosan as a nebulized treatment--you'd want to give that one and the Doxycycline as oral medications to be absorbed into the system.

Pidgey


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Pidgey said:


> I wouldn't give the Tylosan as a nebulized treatment--you'd want to give that one and the Doxycycline as oral medications to be absorbed into the system.
> 
> Pidgey


No, I don't want to give it as a nebulized treatment but asoral medcine.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

angua said:


> No, I don't want to give it as a nebulized treatment but asoral medcine.


Angua, what form do you have the Tylosin in and what strength? If you want to give it as oral medicine, do you need a little help to calculate a dose based on the dosing instructions I gave you of 25mg/kg, twice a day?

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Angua, what form do you have the Tylosin in and what strength? If you want to give it as oral medicine, do you need a little help to calculate a dose based on the dosing instructions I gave you of 25mg/kg, twice a day?
> 
> Karyn


I got sachet of 5 g of tylosulfan (tylosan) to dissolve in 2 l of water. Should I do the same as with doxy? 500 mg dissolve in 10 ml of water and use 0,05 cc/100g body weight?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

angua said:


> I got sachet of 5 g of tylosulfan (tylosan) to dissolve in 2 l of water. Should I do the same as with doxy? 500 mg dissolve in 10 ml of water and use 0,05 cc/100g body weight?


Divide the 5g of Tylosin into 5 equal piles, then divide one pile in half, this will be 500mg, put the rest away as instructed before. Add this 500mg to 10mL of water and you will have a 5% solution (50mg/mL), then dose, as you have already calculated, 0.05mL (2.5mg of Tylosin) per 100mg of body weight. Your calculations were good, but I wanted to go through things again with you.

Karyn


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## angua (Jan 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Divide the 5g of Tylosin into 5 equal piles, then divide one pile in half, this will be 500mg, put the rest away as instructed before. Add this 500mg to 10mL of water and you will have a 5% solution (50mg/mL), then dose, as you have already calculated, 0.05mL (2.5mg of Tylosin) per 100mg of body weight. Your calculations were good, but I wanted to go through things again with you.
> 
> Karyn


Thank you very much!
best regards


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