# My Satinette started throwing up?



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

about 1 1/2 weeks ago my Female Stainette was not acting well. She would not stand up and had diarrhea and kept putting her head down. I was very worried about her so I took her to the vets. He said that he thought she had an intestinal infection and gave her a shot of antibiotics, and some to put in her water. I asked him if it could be a problem with an egg, and he said no, that he didn't feel anything, and showed me where to feel. I took her home and she started acting better. The next day she was acting more her self and flew up on top of one of our doors. When I went to get her down she layed an egg on me in mid air. After that she seemed fine.........Now starting today she has thrown up 2-3 times. She has never thrown up before...ever!!
It contains some seeds and grit, and has some green stuff in it. What should I do. Should I be concerned?? I don't want to rush her off to the vets for nothing, but she is like my child....I have raised her from out of the egg, and can't let anything happen to her. Please let me know what you think. I have always trusted all of your opinions.

Thanks
Bonnie


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Did she lay one egg or two? When did that happen? How many times has she thrown up? Just trying to get an idea of what might be going on.
I had a hen that was throwing up. I treated her for everything in the book. She just kept throwing up. During all this time, she was molting pretty heavy. Once she got through the molt, she quit throwing up and has been fine ever since. I had never seen that before, but it did happen just a few months ago. It was kinda weird.
Well, I see you said she threw up 2 or 3 times...............


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*Throwing up*

She only laid one egg. She has done that before, with no problems. She is an inside bird a little over a year old. She is the only one so her eggs are not fertilized. I wish she wouldn't lay them, but she is so affectionate, that I think she thinks I am her boyfriend. I am hoping that another one is not stuck or something. I can not tell by feeling, and neither could the vet since I think it was far up, and she is a little plump as the vet said. I just can't have anything happen to her....She comes to work with me everyday, and sits on my desk with me. I love her like a person, ( probably More as my husband would say)> please help with ideas

Bonnie


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, personally, if it was me..........I'd call the vet. She's a pet and the only one and if it was me, I wouldn't be doing any guessing. 
I have 100 plus/minus at any given time, and unless it's an emergency, the vet is out of the question. It wouldn't be that way if I had only one bird that I loved as much as you love this one. 
When you're talking about a bunch of birds, in a loft and outside, it's easy for them to pick up "stuff"......worms, cocci, etc...........I wouldn't think that's the case with your bird though. 
Maybe others will be along with some suggestions. I hope she'll be ok.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> She only laid one egg. She has done that before, with no problems. She is an inside bird a little over a year old. She is the only one so her eggs are not fertilized. I wish she wouldn't lay them, but she is so affectionate, that I think she thinks I am her boyfriend. I am hoping that another one is not stuck or something. I can not tell by feeling, and neither could the vet since I think it was far up, and she is a little plump as the vet said. I just can't have anything happen to her....She comes to work with me everyday, and sits on my desk with me. I love her like a person, ( probably More as my husband would say)> please help with ideas
> 
> Bonnie


egg binding is nothing to mess with...take her back to the vet, if not an egg, then get her poop checked out, adding organic apple cider Vinager to her water on a regular basis is good for digestion...if the throw up had green that is worrisom, she may have a sour crop or infection from, make sure you check her for canker too.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*Throwing up*

I felt where I think that it could get stuck, it feel like there is something there, but I can't remember what it felt like before. When she was sick before she never threw up. She seems to be acting ok.. I had a hot turkey sandwich for lunch which is one of her favorites,and she went to town...she threw up about 20 mins later with some seed and gravy, grit and a little tiny part of green. I am going to keep an eye on her, and if she gets worse I will take her to the vets tonight, or if still trowing up tomorrow I will take her then. I just don't have the money to take her back again if its just something simple, since i just took her 1 1/2 weeks ago. She just flew over to her food, and water...and took a BIG drink or water. I am not sure if that is good or bad. she jumped on on the chair and got a little fluffed up and looks like she is going to sleep. Her feathers don't look like the fluffed up ones when they are sick.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Bradygirl....I wouldn't mess with it by waiting to see if she gets better on her own. That usually doesn't happen. If she is egg bound, you may not have much time. It could be something completely different too. Have you ever wormed her? Whatever, she does need to be evaluated by a veterinarian.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I felt where I think that it could get stuck, it feel like there is something there, but I can't remember what it felt like before. When she was sick before she never threw up. She seems to be acting ok.. I had a hot turkey sandwich for lunch which is one of her favorites,and she went to town...she threw up about 20 mins later with some seed and gravy, grit and a little tiny part of green. I am going to keep an eye on her, and if she gets worse I will take her to the vets tonight, or if still trowing up tomorrow I will take her then. I just don't have the money to take her back again if its just something simple, since i just took her 1 1/2 weeks ago. She just flew over to her food, and water...and took a BIG drink or water. I am not sure if that is good or bad. she jumped on on the chair and got a little fluffed up and looks like she is going to sleep. Her feathers don't look like the fluffed up ones when they are sick.


stop feeding her....pigeons are not meant to eat meat...stop feeding her junk! not doing her any favors. let her have her acv water and hold off on feed untill you get her checked out....people food may be really hurting her digestive track....if she has a second egg in there she can DIE from it being stuck, get her to the vet....Oi!.......


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

She didn't eat any of the meat today, just licked some of the gravy. What is ACV water? If it was really an egg stuck wouldn't she be acting more sick. She seem to be acting ok. The problem is that where we live there are very few vets that will treat pigeon/birds in general...I usually take her to this one in particular and the bird vet will not be in till tommorrow. I am going to keep an eye on her and if she not feeling any better I guess I will have to take her to the emergency vet.

Let me know about the water.

Thanks 
Bonnie


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons are seed and grain eaters, do not allow her to eat gravy or other people food. That may be causing her to up-chuck.

ACV is apple cider vinegar, the organic kind like Braggs or wild oats brand ( a tablespoon per gallon). The acidity provides good environment to allow good bacteria growth and keep bad bacteria numbers down in the crop and digestive tract. 

Please do seek out a vet if she hasn't laid and normally does.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

bradygirl said:


> She didn't eat any of the meat today, just licked some of the gravy. What is ACV water? If it was really an egg stuck wouldn't she be acting more sick. She seem to be acting ok. The problem is that where we live there are very few vets that will treat pigeon/birds in general...I usually take her to this one in particular and the bird vet will not be in till tommorrow. I am going to keep an eye on her and if she not feeling any better I guess I will have to take her to the emergency vet.
> 
> Let me know about the water.
> 
> ...


That's Apple Cider Vinegar. Put anywhere from 1 to 4 tablespoons in a gallon of water. I personally go with 1, but maybe a bit more is better, IF the bird will drink the water. If she won't drink the water, then of course, it's not going to a bit of good. If it's been more than a few days, like a week, since she laid the one egg, I doubt it's an egg issue. If she went that long with an egg stuck, I'm pretty sure you would KNOW that something is wrong. If it's only been two days or less, then a stuck egg is still quite possible.


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I think diet is part of the problem as pigeons are grain eaters. I would not allow her to have any meat or gravy. But she may also have an egg issue. What about calcium? Indoor birds often fail to get the calcium and vitamin D they need to produce and lay their eggs even if they have grit. Try giving her a calcium + vitamin D supplement such as Citracal. Satinettes are pretty small, so you can break the tablet in half and give her just half at a time. Gently open her beak and pop it in and she'll swallow it just as she would a dried pea or piece of corn. This is what I do for hens that have problems with calcium absorption.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bradygirl,


Throwing up could be it's own issue, whatever else is going on Egg-wise.


ACV-Water @ Four Tablespoons to a Gallon, would be a good idea.


Better yet, three or four days on 'Medistatin' or 'Nystatin' also.


Slightly 'sour' Crop or early stage Candida/Yeast problems in the Crop, can see them throwing up, 'fluffing' and feeling poorly.


Possibly the Seed is iffy...containated, or had got damp at some point...



Good luck..!


Phil
l v


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*Sick Satinette*

Hi All,

I took her to the vet and the vet again gave her a shot of antibiotics. I told him that the day after she was sick last time i took her in after getting the shot she layed an egg. Not sure if that was the whole problem or not. He said he couldn't feel and egg but also gave ner a shot to help her if there is one stuck. every once in awhile she opens her mouth really wide and does this weird head shake thing thant scares me. It like she is having a small seizure. The vet said maybe she has a reproductive problem or infection, and that if she isn't better tomorrow to bring her back in for another shot. I am really worried about her she is sitting on a chair next to me , just kinda looking not well. She keeps closing her eyes which makes me nervous. I guess maybe I should leave her alone for awhile because the visit was probably pretty traumatic for her with getting 2 shots and all. Any other ideas of what it could be, or other treatments would be very appreciated.

Thanks
Bonnie


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I took her to the vet and the vet again gave her a shot of antibiotics. I told him that the day after she was sick last time i took her in after getting the shot she layed an egg. Not sure if that was the whole problem or not. He said he couldn't feel and egg but also gave ner a shot to help her if there is one stuck. every once in awhile she opens her mouth really wide and does this weird head shake thing thant scares me. It like she is having a small seizure. The vet said maybe she has a reproductive problem or infection, and that if she isn't better tomorrow to bring her back in for another shot. I am really worried about her she is sitting on a chair next to me , just kinda looking not well. She keeps closing her eyes which makes me nervous. I guess maybe I should leave her alone for awhile because the visit was probably pretty traumatic for her with getting 2 shots and all. Any other ideas of what it could be, or other treatments would be very appreciated.
> 
> ...


why can't he take an exray to rule out eggbiding?.....


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

He said something about an xray, but didn't take one saying that the other shot he was giving her would help her deliver it if that was the problem. What symptoms do they usually have if they are unable to lay them. She never lays them like her mother usued to. The mother would lay one , then 2 days later lay another. The first time she ever laid them she did, but since thn she only lays one then like 1-3weeks later lays another. There is no male bird, so they are not fertilized.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> He said something about an xray, but didn't take one saying that the other shot he was giving her would help her deliver it if that was the problem. What symptoms do they usually have if they are unable to lay them. She never lays them like her mother usued to. The mother would lay one , then 2 days later lay another. The first time she ever laid them she did, but since thn she only lays one then like 1-3weeks later lays another. There is no male bird, so they are not fertilized.


egg fertility is a mute point.....he must feel she has an infection and not the eggbiding....if she had an egg in there she would of been in alot more trouble than just feeling bad...if she did, SOME symptoms are tucked tail, laying down and acting hurt, looks in pain. you should ask more questions at the vet, write them down before you leave that way you won't forget....hope she gets better soon.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Her tail is a little tucked and she does lay down, or stand very still alot with her eyes closed. Almost like when sleeping, but I can tell she is not feeling well. What type of seed do must people feed their Satinettes, or pigeons in general. I have been buying my seed at the Mill which is a farm like store that sells different types of pigeon food. She eats a few of the seeds but mostly likes the big peas. Should I get her another type of seed also? This is the same pigeon food that I fed her parents for 2 years with no trouble.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bradygirl said:


> Her tail is a little tucked and she does lay down, or stand very still alot with her eyes closed. Almost like when sleeping, but I can tell she is not feeling well. What type of seed do must people feed their Satinettes, or pigeons in general. I have been buying my seed at the Mill which is a farm like store that sells different types of pigeon food. She eats a few of the seeds but mostly likes the big peas. Should I get her another type of seed also? This is the same pigeon food that I fed her parents for 2 years with no trouble.


She's sick. Take her to the vet before it's too late.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> Her tail is a little tucked and she does lay down, or stand very still alot with her eyes closed. Almost like when sleeping, but I can tell she is not feeling well. What type of seed do must people feed their Satinettes, or pigeons in general. I have been buying my seed at the Mill which is a farm like store that sells different types of pigeon food. She eats a few of the seeds but mostly likes the big peas. Should I get her another type of seed also? This is the same pigeon food that I fed her parents for 2 years with no trouble.


I would get an exray just to be safe...ASAP.....


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I just took her there at 11:30 today. And that was what the Vet said today. She does seem to be feeling a little bit better, definetly not her old self but at least looking like she feels a little better. He told me if she doesn't seem better tomorrow to bring her back for another shot.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I just took her there at 11:30 today. And that was what the Vet said today. She does seem to be feeling a little bit better, definetly not her old self but at least looking like she feels a little better. He told me if she doesn't seem better tomorrow to bring her back for another shot.


what was what the vet said......


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*Now she does have a stuck egg & they don't know what to do*

I took her back yesterday and the vet gave her another Baytril shot, and something to stimulate her is it was an egg even tho he didn't think so. I made him xray her and we did find an egg. Not a very dark defined shell on the xray, like it wasn't very think. He wasn't really sure what to do so he called another bird vet that said to give her a Calcium shot and to put her in a room with steam later when I got home. They said that if it didn't come out by monday they would either have to try to suck the insides out of the shell, or sedate her and try to get it out. After I got back to work with her she looked alot better as usual after the shots. She had a hearty appetite and drank alot. I was very worried about her eating so much when she had been having such a hard time pooping. After getting home I put her in my bathroom with a steamer all last night up till a few minutes ago with no result. she is siiting her with me it seems difficult for her to walk or move alot. Yesterday she could fly, but today she seems like she doesn't have the energy to hold her bottom part up. PLEASE HELPME ARE THEIR ANY OTHER IDEAS OR OPTIONS???


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

bradygirl said:


> I took her back yesterday and the vet gave her another Baytril shot, and something to stimulate her is it was an egg even tho he didn't think so. I made him xray her and we did find an egg. Not a very dark defined shell on the xray, like it wasn't very think. He wasn't really sure what to do so he called another bird vet that said to give her a Calcium shot and to put her in a room with steam later when I got home. They said that if it didn't come out by monday they would either have to try to suck the insides out of the shell, or sedate her and try to get it out. After I got back to work with her she looked alot better as usual after the shots. She had a hearty appetite and drank alot. I was very worried about her eating so much when she had been having such a hard time pooping. After getting home I put her in my bathroom with a steamer all last night up till a few minutes ago with no result. she is siiting her with me it seems difficult for her to walk or move alot. Yesterday she could fly, but today she seems like she doesn't have the energy to hold her bottom part up. PLEASE HELPME ARE THEIR ANY OTHER IDEAS OR OPTIONS???


Can you not get back to the vet today? This doesn't sound good to me at all, and I believe you've probably done all you can do for her at home.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I took her back yesterday and the vet gave her another Baytril shot, and something to stimulate her is it was an egg even tho he didn't think so. I made him xray her and we did find an egg. Not a very dark defined shell on the xray, like it wasn't very think. He wasn't really sure what to do so he called another bird vet that said to give her a Calcium shot and to put her in a room with steam later when I got home. They said that if it didn't come out by monday they would either have to try to suck the insides out of the shell, or sedate her and try to get it out. After I got back to work with her she looked alot better as usual after the shots. She had a hearty appetite and drank alot. I was very worried about her eating so much when she had been having such a hard time pooping. After getting home I put her in my bathroom with a steamer all last night up till a few minutes ago with no result. she is siiting her with me it seems difficult for her to walk or move alot. Yesterday she could fly, but today she seems like she doesn't have the energy to hold her bottom part up. PLEASE HELPME ARE THEIR ANY OTHER IDEAS OR OPTIONS???


you may have to go the way of sedate and take the egg, untill then, a warm water bath, soak her in it, it may help and it may feel good too, keep her on a heat pad with something between her and the pad like a towel, keep doing the steams a few times a day, and them let her rest, make sure she is eating and drinking, and get her in asap to the vet if she does not pass it, call an emergency vet if you have too, that is if you think she is in imediate danger of dieing.....sorry she is not well.....


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oo... sounds like she needs immediate ovocentesis (using a syringe to suck the internal contents out of the egg). Can you just tell the vet to do it "right now"?

Pidgey


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I wanted to let you all know that Peepers is doing alot better. As far as I can tell she has not passed the egg, but she is acting herself again, and eating drinking and pooping like normal. Not sure what exactly happened, but I am going to keep a good eye on her and if she seems to be having any problems she will got right back to the vet. I am so happy at the change..Thanks for all your help, and I will keep you informed.


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so glad she's doing better, but it concerns me that the vet thought he saw an egg on the x-ray but she didn't pass one. I wonder if he mis-read the x-ray?? I've seen "stuck" eggs on x-rays and they were very obviously eggs.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

here is a link that you may find helpful and think about diet and egg binding, Im a bit confused..if she was diagnosed with an egg binding it will need to come out sooner rather than later. I don't get it....egg binding can be FATAL, does she have an egg in there or not!.... If so waiting may be a mistake....good luck.....
http://www.petplace.com/birds/egg-binding/page1.aspx


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I actually saw the xray, I and it did kind of look like an egg. It looked like if it definetly was then the shell was very thin at the time, that was why they also gave her a calcium shot to help thicken it if needed. I am not sure what happened but she does seem more like herself. I mostly think it is strange that she doesn't lay 1 egg and another 2days later like her mother used to.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I actually saw the xray, I and it did kind of look like an egg. It looked like if it definetly was then the shell was very thin at the time, that was why they also gave her a calcium shot to help thicken it if needed. I am not sure what happened but she does seem more like herself. I mostly think it is strange that she doesn't lay 1 egg and another 2days later like her mother used to.


If she is well, then thats good....perhaps if there was an egg, it did not fully ripen and she just absorbed it and that made her sick for a spell...kinda weird though....glad she is doing better. be sure to get her the vitamins and minerals she needs, perhaps that will straighten out her laying problem.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*Peepers finally laid her egg*

I just wanted to let everyone know that My sweet little Peepers finally laid that egg last night. She had been feeling better anyway, But I am sooo relieved that it is out. We are going to Disney for Christmas (our 1st family vacation in 10 years) and I have been really worried about her at home. My friend is going to be stopping over to feed and give her fresh water ect, but if she was sick that would not be good. She is used to coming to work with me everyday and having free reign of my office to fly around , and while we are gone its going to be hard on her to stay in her cage. Hopefully she won't be to sad....I am going to try to get my friend to let her out for a few minutes each day. She is worried that she won't be able to catch her, but I assured her she will. Thanks for everyones concern..You guys are great, as usual!!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yeh!....did you celebrate?.......she does have some laying issues for sure, scared me there for a little while....well you will know what to do if this happens again....enjoy your vacation, and Merry Christmas


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so glad she's doing better and finally laid her egg! Sounds like you got an early Christmas present.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

*My baby is acting sick again*

I can't believe it.... My baby is acting sick again. She has been fine, and just like the last time its been about 2 weeks and now she is acting sick again. The problem is she acts really loving about a day or 2 before this starts. I try not to pet he alot when she does this because I know she is trying to like mate with me. She becomes very vocal and flies on my desk and try to crawl under my hands while I am typing to get some affection, or snuggle under my hair. I tried really hard not to let her do these things. Now she is acting very quiet, and her rear end/tail feathers are pointing down. A minute ago she opened her mouth real wide, and then her head started shaking like she was having a minor seizure. I can't have this happen again now because we are going on vacation for Christmas and Someone is going to be checking on my pets for me. I need to figure out what is doing this. If this is how she is going to be..sick every time she is going to lay an egg, I don't want her to lay them anymore, and have to figure out a way to stop it. Why doesn't she lay them 2 days apart like others are supposed to. Please help me again with some ideas. This is really starting to cause alot of stress and worry for me all the time, and costing me alot of money running back and forth to the vet. This last time I took her 3 times, and the time before it was twice. 
Please help me...

Bonnie


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

She needs calcium supplement offered daily. You can buy oyster shell or Petamine is another option. It can be purchased at most pet stores. I offer both because some of my birds like one and not the other.
When a human woman is pregnant, prenatal supplements are critical and this is no different.

```

```
http://www.petsolutions.com/Petamine-Breeding+I15995100+C58.aspx
You can't mess around with this...
Rush yourself to the store and buy some regular tums and give her 1/4 of one right now!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Yes her immediate care is what is important right now, you may have to leave her in the hands of the avian vet if you are going away and not the house sitter.


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry, Bradygirl! As Charis said, calcium and vitamin D supplements are crucial and you can buy them at any drug or grocery store. Something else that could really help is to provide her with full-spectrum light. We have a little African finch hen that almost died from egg-binding last year even though I was giving them calcium/vitamin D supplements every day. I finally bought them a lamp and full spectrum bulb from a pet supply and it has worked wonders. She laid her eggs this year with no problems. I think I bought it from Pet Solutions and the manufacturer is Zoo Med. www.zoomed.com

In the meantime, I know it's expensive but I think you should take her to the vet ASAP if the supplements don't help immediately. Best of luck and do keep us posted. She sounds like such a sweet, precious girl. 

-Cathy


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> Yes her immediate care is what is important right now, you may have to leave her in the hands of the avian vet if you are going away and not the house sitter.


I agree except, it doesn't need to be an avian vet but one that regularily treats birds and has a good reputation in the community.
Also, put her on a heating pad, on the lowest setting.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> I agree except, it doesn't need to be an avian vet but one that regularily treats birds and has a good reputation in the community.
> Also, put her on a heating pad, on the lowest setting.


she has an avian vet she is established with, and I was speaking of him....


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I will get her the calcium asap. Will that make her head shake ect. i can't even tell how long it takes for her to start making and egg to when she lays one. My friend that is going to be keeping an eye on her for me is very animal sensitive and said she would take her to the vets if needed asap. The vet that I go to treats all animals ..not just birds, and I worry that she would be very scared being around the dogs ect. We do not have any dogs , only cats. I will get the tums and give her some in a few minutes. I just wonder what it is that made her better. She got 3 antibiotic shots 2 shots of something that stimulates them, and a shot of Calcium. Not sure which one or the combination of them that made her better.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bradygirl said:


> I will get her the calcium asap. Will that make her head shake ect. i can't even tell how long it takes for her to start making and egg to when she lays one. My friend that is going to be keeping an eye on her for me is very animal sensitive and said she would take her to the vets if needed asap. The vet that I go to treats all animals ..not just birds, and I worry that she would be very scared being around the dogs ect. We do not have any dogs , only cats. I will get the tums and give her some in a few minutes. I just wonder what it is that made her better. She got 3 antibiotic shots 2 shots of something that stimulates them, and a shot of Calcium. Not sure which one or the combination of them that made her better.


Maybe all of those things made her better. She needs calcium regularily...not just 1 shot.
You aren't giving her SOME tums..you need to give her 1/4 of a tums today and 1/4 tomorrow. In addition, you need to pick up one of the other things I told you. Personally, I would get the Petamine.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Can I get the Pentamine at the petsmart or petco? Other than those places there is a feed store that I could try but they have really strange hours. I am going to lunch in a few minutes and will get the tums.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

how do I give her the Tums?? do I shove it in her mouth, or Break it up ?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You should be able to get Petamine at Petco but I would call first.
You can break the 1/4 tums into pieces and put in the back of her mouth. She will swallow it.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I got the tums and gave her 1/4 of a tablet...she didn't like it , but did swallow it. Should I force her to drink some water so it doesn't get stuck??
I bought some oyster shell stuff and she ate some, and I also got some vitamins for her water.

I could not find the pentamine stuff . I will keep looking. 

I don't like it when her back end starts pointing down. She was walking around ect before, now she is just kinda sitting down.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This is where I buy it.
I would suggest 2# and keep it in the refridgerator.
http://www.petsolutions.com/Petamine-Breeding+I15995100+C58.aspx


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Last night she was acting very sick, like not being able to walk right, and just not feeling well in general. I was very worried about her last night. I didn't want to go to sleep because I didn't want something to happen to her. Spent about and hour crying and praying.
This morning she seems a little better. She has been eating and drinking but her poops are liquidy again like before. Its almost like she is allergic to laying eggs or something. I have a heating pad on a chair for her and she has been siiting/laying on it. She seems ok, but if not better tomorrow I am going to take her back to the vet for more shots if necessary. I am not sure if the shots actually do anything, or its just a nature take its course kind of ailment associated with the eggs. We are going away for a week on Monday night and I need her to be better by then. If she isn't I will have to leave her at the vets, which I am sure will scare the crap out of her since she has never seen or heard a dog. I don't want her to be so scared she would die of fear. As of now I have a friend looking after her, but I don't want to burdon her with worrying about a sick bird, so hopefully she will be over this. 
I am not sure tho what to do to keep this from happening every 2 weeks. Anyone have any ideas??? I love Peepers so much that I can't imagine her not here, but this stress every 2 weeks is beating me down hard.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> Last night she was acting very sick, like not being able to walk right, and just not feeling well in general. I was very worried about her last night. I didn't want to go to sleep because I didn't want something to happen to her. Spent about and hour crying and praying.
> This morning she seems a little better. She has been eating and drinking but her poops are liquidy again like before. Its almost like she is allergic to laying eggs or something. I have a heating pad on a chair for her and she has been siiting/laying on it. She seems ok, but if not better tomorrow I am going to take her back to the vet for more shots if necessary. I am not sure if the shots actually do anything, or its just a nature take its course kind of ailment associated with the eggs. We are going away for a week on Monday night and I need her to be better by then. If she isn't I will have to leave her at the vets, which I am sure will scare the crap out of her since she has never seen or heard a dog. I don't want her to be so scared she would die of fear. As of now I have a friend looking after her, but I don't want to burdon her with worrying about a sick bird, so hopefully she will be over this.
> I am not sure tho what to do to keep this from happening every 2 weeks. Anyone have any ideas??? I love Peepers so much that I can't imagine her not here, but this stress every 2 weeks is beating me down hard.


I can understand how sad you must be for her, I think your best bet if you trust your vet is to take her there for the duration of you vacation and they can treat her there and give quick medical attention if she would need it, They usually would keep a bird away from the dog and cat areas, if they treat birds they would or should have a quiet spot for her. the vet may have to call a specialist or refer you to one for her egg laying problems. I would consult one if I were you also and try some treatments they suggest, but you just want to get her over this crisis first, but IMO, consult an avian vet that specializes in this only, like you said you don't want to have her/you to go through this every two weeks.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

She needs to have calcium available all the time. Unless there is something else going on, that should take care of the problem.This is a very common problem. Offer her leafy green lettuce too and minced fresh carrots. Pigeons also like minced broccoli, the top part. Don't give her any more meat or poultry.
In addition,she needs a safe place to nest and be allowed to incubate her eggs the full cycle, even though they won't hatch. It's too much for her to lay,egg after egg without rest in between.

You really need to take the advise we have all been giving you.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> She needs to have calcium available all the time. Unless there is something else going on, that should take care of the problem.This is a very common problem. Offer her leafy green lettuce too and minced fresh carrots. Pigeons also like minced broccoli, the top part. Don't give her any more meat or poultry.
> In addition,she needs a safe place to nest and be allowed to incubate her eggs the full cycle, even though they won't hatch. It's too much for her to lay,egg after egg without rest in between.
> 
> You really need to take the advise we have all been giving you.


Charis is right, I forgot about her nesting and sitting the eggs she does lay, follow her directions, you can boil and save the eggs to put in her nest.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

after she lays the eggs she never has anything to do with them after that. She will never lay on them, or show any interest in them what so ever. It seems odd to me. I left the last one she laid in there for a week, and she never paid any mind to it at all. Most of the time she steps on it etc. Her mother was always very careful with the eggs. She Kept them in one place ect. I don't know if its because they are not fertilized or not. We only have one bird, so they can never be fertilized. We gave the parents away last year because they were having little ones like crazy. 
Do you think the Calcium problem is why she doesn't lay the 2 eggs within 2 days? I feed her the exact food that I fed her mom without any problems.

She is resting on a heating pad right now. How long should I continue to give her the tums? Can she get too much?? I have vitamins that i put in her water, plus the oyster shell grit. I will try to order the other stuff also.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> after she lays the eggs she never has anything to do with them after that. She will never lay on them, or show any interest in them what so ever. It seems odd to me. I left the last one she laid in there for a week, and she never paid any mind to it at all. Most of the time she steps on it etc. Her mother was always very careful with the eggs. She Kept them in one place ect. I don't know if its because they are not fertilized or not. We only have one bird, so they can never be fertilized. We gave the parents away last year because they were having little ones like crazy.
> Do you think the Calcium problem is why she doesn't lay the 2 eggs within 2 days? I feed her the exact food that I fed her mom without any problems.
> 
> She is resting on a heating pad right now. How long should I continue to give her the tums? Can she get too much?? I have vitamins that i put in her water, plus the oyster shell grit. I will try to order the other stuff also.


When Charis come back on she can guide you on this better than I can, but just to ask, do you supply a nest bowl for her in a box or quiet corner?


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I did the first time, but she refused to sit in it. Do you think I should try again. ?? Do you think she is uninterested since they aren't fertilized?? I will keep checking for more ideas

Thanks 
Bonnie


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bradygirl said:


> I did the first time, but she refused to sit in it. Do you think I should try again. ?? Do you think she is uninterested since they aren't fertilized?? I will keep checking for more ideas
> 
> Thanks
> Bonnie


Definitely.
The first time she was young and didn't know what to do. Instinct will take over. Try not to pet her lower back, near the tail, as that is encouraging the egg laying.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

She has laid probably around 8 eggs and never seems interested.

I have been trying not to pet her there, because I started noticing that she would stick her butt up in the air and her vent would open. The problem is she jumps on my desk and starts rubbing against me. I pet her a little especially her head so she doesn't feel negleted.. She is such and affectionate bird that is very hard. I made a real effort after this last time to not touch her there, but it doesn't seem to have worked


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Did you give her the tums today?


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Yes, should I keep giving them to her daily? Can she get too much calcium? I also put Quikon Daily Multivitamin and mineral powered supplement in her water. it says its for bone development, feathering, fertility and immune system support.
She ate some lettuce this afternoon also.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How much calcium does it say it has in it?


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Its kind of confusing....it says it has D-Calcium Pantothenate in it..
down the bottom it says D-Pantothenic Acid 96mg...

It also has 
Manganese 35mg
Zinc 36mg
Iron 90mg
Copper 7mg
Cobalt 1.1 mg
Iodine 2.8mg
Vitamin A 180,000 IU
Vit D3 280 IU
Vit E 180 IU
Menadione 38mg
Thiamine 19mg
Vit B3 50mg
Niacin 308mg
Vit B6 20mg
Vit B12 90mg
Ascorbic Acid 480mg
Biotin 0.85mg
Folic acid 4.8mg
Inositol 3.6mg


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

The tums that I got say 750mg each so if I only give a quarter that is 187.50mg a day


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I wanted to let you know that I was so happy last night she laid an egg, and she seemed interested in taking care of it. I made sure she was comfortable etc. I was so relieved, until this morning when I went to check on her. I felt so bad for her....she stood up, and the egg had crushed, and her feathers are all covered in egg yolk. She looked very sad. I tried to put a fake one in there for her but she doesn't seem very interested. Should I continue to leave the fake one in there and see what she does? Should I keep giving her the tums. She seems to be feeling alot better which I am very thankful for. I am going to post a pic of her later so that all that have been helping me can see the sweet beautiful Peepers that I Love so much.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I wanted to let you know that I was so happy last night she laid an egg, and she seemed interested in taking care of it. I made sure she was comfortable etc. I was so relieved, until this morning when I went to check on her. I felt so bad for her....she stood up, and the egg had crushed, and her feathers are all covered in egg yolk. She looked very sad. I tried to put a fake one in there for her but she doesn't seem very interested. Should I continue to leave the fake one in there and see what she does? Should I keep giving her the tums. She seems to be feeling alot better which I am very thankful for. I am going to post a pic of her later so that all that have been helping me can see the sweet beautiful Peepers that I Love so much.


yes leave the fake egg, she may have another egg to follow friday or sat. keep on with the tums, does she ever get any direct sunlight, they need that to metabolize vitamin D.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

I am not sure what you mean by diret sunlight. She goes to work with me everyday and sits on my desk or chair. My desk is next to a window, so I guess that is the most direct she gets. Should she be getting more than that? I don't really know how else I could get her more. I am going to be away for 6 days and she will not be at work with me. I don't really ahve anyway to get her direct sun while i am gone without putting her outside, and we live in Maryland where it is 30 degrees. She is not used to the cold whatsoever. I know that at the vets she wouldn't get any light there either. I could try to move her cage closer to the window, but its very drafty there and I don't want her to get sick.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bradygirl said:


> I wanted to let you know that I was so happy last night she laid an egg, and she seemed interested in taking care of it. I made sure she was comfortable etc. I was so relieved, until this morning when I went to check on her. I felt so bad for her....she stood up, and the egg had crushed, and her feathers are all covered in egg yolk. She looked very sad. I tried to put a fake one in there for her but she doesn't seem very interested. Should I continue to leave the fake one in there and see what she does? Should I keep giving her the tums. She seems to be feeling alot better which I am very thankful for. I am going to post a pic of her later so that all that have been helping me can see the sweet beautiful Peepers that I Love so much.


If she has laid an egg, you need to keep up with tums until she lays the next egg and then have a supplement always available after that. I think her egg broke because the shell was too thin and that's a result of not enough calcium.
After she lays the next egg, leave her home to incubate it. Taking her back and forth to work is the reason she has been abandoning her eggs. If you don't get this under control, I think you will loose her This is really a very critical situation and you need to be aware of that.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> I am not sure what you mean by diret sunlight. She goes to work with me everyday and sits on my desk or chair. My desk is next to a window, so I guess that is the most direct she gets. Should she be getting more than that? I don't really know how else I could get her more. I am going to be away for 6 days and she will not be at work with me. I don't really ahve anyway to get her direct sun while i am gone without putting her outside, and we live in Maryland where it is 30 degrees. She is not used to the cold whatsoever. I know that at the vets she wouldn't get any light there either. I could try to move her cage closer to the window, but its very drafty there and I don't want her to get sick.


I was asking if she gets direct unfilterd sunlight as that helps metabolize vit D for her body to use...Yes it is cold right now, but when you get back and if you have some nice fair days, she may very well need to get some fresh sunshine in a cage that a cat or critter can not get it's claws in, just for 30 mins a few times a week may do it.....


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

Since she hasn't been laying them together..usually 2weeks apart, should I really be hoping that she is going to lay another? I don't have a problem with leaving her home if I need too. She usually freaks out in the morning when I am getting ready to leave to remind me not to forget her. I am actually hopinh that she does lay another one so that she will have something to keep her occupied while I am not around. I figured that it would make it easier for the one watching her not to be as worried about her getting bound if she is laying on one. I am going to try to get her to lay on the fake one at home and see what happens. I will try the sunlight thing when I get home from vacation. If that will help her stay well and happy its worth itI felt sorry for her an tried to wipe as much of the yolk off her as possible. When I looked at the egg last night it didn't look that thin, but I guess it was. They didn't have the other stuff you guys said to get so I am going to order some online


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bradygirl said:


> Since she hasn't been laying them together..usually 2weeks apart, should I really be hoping that she is going to lay another? I don't have a problem with leaving her home if I need too. She usually freaks out in the morning when I am getting ready to leave to remind me not to forget her. I am actually hopinh that she does lay another one so that she will have something to keep her occupied while I am not around. I figured that it would make it easier for the one watching her not to be as worried about her getting bound if she is laying on one. I am going to try to get her to lay on the fake one at home and see what happens. I will try the sunlight thing when I get home from vacation. If that will help her stay well and happy its worth itI felt sorry for her an tried to wipe as much of the yolk off her as possible. When I looked at the egg last night it didn't look that thin, but I guess it was. They didn't have the other stuff you guys said to get so I am going to order some online


If her vit/calcium balance is going up she may lay the other with in normal time, just leave the fake egg in her nest and leave her home to take care of it. don't MAKE her do anything, sometimes they do not get interested in the eggs untill the second one is layed then they will want to sit them, I would leave her alone so she can not be distracted...keep up with the high calcium suppliments....


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Charis is right--the thin shell is a sign she's not getting enough calcium, and taking her to work is the reason she keeps abandoning her eggs. It's confusing to her. Even though she gets upset when you leave, I'm sure once you're out the door she'll settle down on her nest.

I can't stress enough how important it is to give her enough calcium and vitamin D. If it were me, I'd give her 1/2 a Citracal tablet per day until she lays the next egg. For the long term I recommend you buy Calcivet for her and put it in her water every day (Foy's and other suppliers sell it). And I strongly recommend you buy a full spectrum lamp for her (see my previous post). This is critical. 

Best of luck and please keep us posted.


----------



## bradygirl (Jul 25, 2006)

How much Calcium and Vit D mg should she get a day. If I get the citrical should I discontinue the tums???I just don't want to give her too much stuff. Should I continue the vitamins in her water that I posted? I figured that it is better than nothing. I got it at the pet store.

What exactly is the purpose of the lamp?? Is it to replace the sunlight? I am not sure exactly how I would attatch it to her cage without worrying that our cats would knock it down and start a fire. Are they big?

She seems to be doing ok, considering that her egg was broken. I will let you know how its going...Thanks for all your help


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bradygirl said:


> How much Calcium and Vit D mg should she get a day. If I get the citrical should I discontinue the tums???I just don't want to give her too much stuff. Should I continue the vitamins in her water that I posted? I figured that it is better than nothing. I got it at the pet store.
> 
> What exactly is the purpose of the lamp?? Is it to replace the sunlight? I am not sure exactly how I would attatch it to her cage without worrying that our cats would knock it down and start a fire. Are they big?
> 
> She seems to be doing ok, considering that her egg was broken. I will let you know how its going...Thanks for all your help


Yes. If you get the Citrical you should discontinue the tums.
Better than nothing, isn't good enough. If you give her Pigeon grit, the red kind, you won't need to worry about vitamins. You will still need to supplement calcium. They know how much they need. That's why I like to offer it in the form of the Petamine that I sent you the link for. I called around, in your area and tried to find it locally but was unable to. You might be able to find it in Baltimore though. I think you should just go ahead and order it on line NOW.


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

bradygirl said:


> How much Calcium and Vit D mg should she get a day. If I get the citrical should I discontinue the tums???I just don't want to give her too much stuff. Should I continue the vitamins in her water that I posted? I figured that it is better than nothing. I got it at the pet store.
> 
> What exactly is the purpose of the lamp?? Is it to replace the sunlight? I am not sure exactly how I would attatch it to her cage without worrying that our cats would knock it down and start a fire. Are they big?
> 
> She seems to be doing ok, considering that her egg was broken. I will let you know how its going...Thanks for all your help


Yes, you can just give her the Citracal instead of the Tums. Tums is ok but not the most readily absorbable form of calcium. That's why I recommened Citracal for now. I've given my "problem" hens Citracal for several days at a time with no adverse effects. But long term, Calcivet made for birds is your best bet--comes with instructions for dilution in water.

The lamp doesn't attach to the cage; it's an adjustable floor lamp that you position _over_ the cage. It's the equivalent of of sunlight. I recommend it because supplements alone sometimes are not enough. It certainly won't hurt her and she'll probably enjoy it--pigeons are great sun lovers.


----------

