# How important are tail feathers



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Got a nice bird that I'd like to send this week that's missing at least one tail feather. Send or stay home?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Depends on how many...if its missing several tail feathers I wouldn't risk it.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I have been racing pigeons since 1984,and I have never paid any attention to tail feathers...The tail is used for a little direction while flying...But mostly for slowing down to land....Alamo


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I think I'll give it a try...thanks for the advice.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The tail is very important during flight, but one or two missing will not hurt it. If there was a huge gap or the majority of them were missing, then I'd be concerned.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

I agree my birds hate flying when they are losing a few or more of their tail feathers at the same time, one or two is nothing to them .


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## pidgey boy (Dec 23, 2010)

yeah one or two does not effect their flight as much as it would if they had 4 or 5 missing but yeah 1 or 2 is fine


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The PRIMEARY FLIGHTS are moulting at the SAME TIME as the TAIL FEATHERS.....If the birds do not want to fly,it`s because of the primeary flights..They are losing SPEED,which they KNOW is the ONLY way to escape a hawk attack...I have yb`s moulting 2 or 3 primeary flights at the same time...Their tail feathers are in good shape....Moulting 2 flights at one time is a sign of super healthy birds....In all the years I have been racing pigeons,I have NEVER held a bird back from racing because of tail feathers being missing...But I have held many birds at home because of their flight condition....So far with 3 races being flown this year,and if we would have had the 4th race today 8/27/11,I have two birds that have not flown one race yet...Why ??....Very bad flight condition !!...When they have good flights,they will RACE,even if their 1st race is a 250 or 300 miler...I don`t care to ship GOOD birds that CANNOT compete well,since their feathering will not allow them to win...Alamo


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Tail feathers are very importanet they are use to stear with and most importantly BREAKS WHEN LANDING. without tail feathers the bird will hit the landing board like a brick. One feather missing in the tail is not a big thing they drop them in pairs and the first ones dropped are the outer two, one on each side of the tail.* GEORGE


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

george simon said:


> *Tail feathers are very importanet they are use to stear with and most importantly BREAKS WHEN LANDING. without tail feathers the bird will hit the landing board like a brick. One feather missing in the tail is not a big thing they drop them in pairs and the first ones dropped are the outer two, one on each side of the tail.* GEORGE


All my birds seem to drop the middle first and work their way out. I have never heard that dropping two flights at once is a sign of super health......is that really true? If so it kinda puts you between a rock and a hard place on shipping day


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm gald you said that, George.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> All my birds seem to drop the middle first and work their way out. I have never heard that dropping two flights at once is a sign of super health......is that really true? If so it kinda puts you between a rock and a hard place on shipping day


I don't know about that. Sometimes the moult is sped up when they have a lot of protien. Although unhealthy birds would have a hard time moulting so that could have some merit. Unless they were referring to having one on each side drop at the same time, which is how it is supposed to work anyway. But I'm assuming they mean 2 on each side at once.
But yes, they are supposed to moult the outter tail feathers first. I guess you don't notice them because they don't make a gap like the inner feathers do. They moult in order. The outter feathers are 1, then 2, etc down to the two 6's in the very middle. Just like the flights start from the inside and moult their way out to the 10th (or 11th or however many our bird has).


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

george simon said:


> *Tail feathers are very importanet they are use to stear with and most importantly BREAKS WHEN LANDING. without tail feathers the bird will hit the landing board like a brick. One feather missing in the tail is not a big thing they drop them in pairs and the first ones dropped are the outer two, one on each side of the tail.* GEORGE


The tail is also important in keeping the bird balanced. I've noticed it really works the birds trying to fly with no tail (for example, after a hawk misses and pulls the tail out). Makes it hard to turn and land, and I'm assuming keeping aloft as well. I imagine the tail would come in handy to catch the wind and help keep the bird in the air, rather than putting the entire load on the wings to keep it up. I'm guessing that is why they fan out their tails when taking off and continue to fly with their tail slightly fanned.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Hi BEDKY I had that happen to one of my race birds as a young bird.He was so frightend he would not come in he flew around here for 3 days with no tail where he stay at night I will never know. on the trird he came in, like I said he hit the landing board like a brick.* George


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I decided to send birds that were lacking....some tail and some flights, and I think the results show that it didn't pay off. Next week I'll be more selective. At what point do you give up on a bird that can't seem to beat anyone? I'm hoping some of the birds that aren't having much success at the shorter distance may have if I send them on the longer races?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

All the big shot pigeon guys like Ganus,all say they want pigeons with *ONE pin feather tail **WIDE*.....So if this is the TRUTH,why would anyone want pigeons with a WIDE tail while flying ????? And then,as far as I know,which isn`t much,that pigeons get their speed from their wings and muscles......Alamo


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## bon3man (Apr 13, 2011)

Alamo said:


> The PRIMEARY FLIGHTS are moulting at the SAME TIME as the TAIL FEATHERS.....If the birds do not want to fly,it`s because of the primeary flights..They are losing SPEED,which they KNOW is the ONLY way to escape a hawk attack...I have yb`s moulting 2 or 3 primeary flights at the same time...Their tail feathers are in good shape....Moulting 2 flights at one time is a sign of super healthy birds....In all the years I have been racing pigeons,I have NEVER held a bird back from racing because of tail feathers being missing...But I have held many birds at home because of their flight condition....So far with 3 races being flown this year,and if we would have had the 4th race today 8/27/11,I have two birds that have not flown one race yet...Why ??....Very bad flight condition !!...When they have good flights,they will RACE,even if their 1st race is a 250 or 300 miler...I don`t care to ship GOOD birds that CANNOT compete well,since their feathering will not allow them to win...Alamo


Hi Alamo,

have you tried to send out birds that are moulting their body feathers? 

I have a young bird for this season in the philippines. Right now, the club is at 80 miles road training. I stopped sending this young bird at 70 miles after i noticed that it is shedding it's body feathers. Should i continue to road train this young bird? 

The road training in the philippines is 3 times a week, adding about 20 miles each toss for 1 month until it reaches 200 miles. The races starts at 230 miles, for 6 weeks straight. We race the same birds for 6 straight weeks, weather permitting. 

If i don't race this young bird this season, he will be raced as an old bird this February, but the prizes for the young bird is 10x compared to the prize for old bird racing.

I hope you can give me a good advice. Thanks in advance.

Butch


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

My best birds so far have been "bush tails" as I call them. Definitely not one-pin tail. People seem to think that makes a difference but I think they just like it cause it's pretty.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

BON3MAN.......Other then bad flight condition,the other bad moulting condition is the head...If the feathering around the ears is bad,do not expect the bird to win any races....As for training,there is no problem if your distance is 60 miles or less....Alot of guys train out to the 1st race station...If you are training at 100 or more miles,I would leave any bird home with very bad flights....Just give them a week or so to make the flight moult out some to a decent amount.....Alamo
BECKY M.....When I say a bird is moulting 2 flights or more,I mean two flights on each wing....Alamo


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2776


Rectrices (from the Latin for "helmsman"), which help the bird to brake and steer in flight, lie in a single horizontal row on the rear margin of the anatomical tail. Only the central pair are attached (via ligaments) to the tail bones; the remaining rectrices are embedded into the rectricial bulbs, complex structures of fat and muscle that surround those bones. Rectrices are always paired, with a vast majority of species having six pairs. They are absent in grebes and some ratites, and greatly reduced in size in penguins.[8][15][16][17] Many grouse species have more than 12 rectrices; some (including Ruffed Grouse and Hazel Grouse) have a number that varies among individuals.[18] Domestic pigeons have a highly variable number, due to centuries of selective breeding.[19] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_feather#Rectrices


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## bon3man (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks Alamo.

As far as the tail feathers, i know one racer here in the philippines, he sent out his bird, missing 4 tail feathers, and still bagged 1st place for the 400 mile race. Quite amazing.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Alamo said:


> BON3MAN.......Other then bad flight condition,the other bad moulting condition is the head...If the feathering around the ears is bad,do not expect the bird to win any races....As for training,there is no problem if your distance is 60 miles or less....Alot of guys train out to the 1st race station...If you are training at 100 or more miles,I would leave any bird home with very bad flights....Just give them a week or so to make the flight moult out some to a decent amount.....Alamo
> BECKY M.....When I say a bird is moulting 2 flights or more,I mean two flights on each wing....Alamo


That's what I figured.  Just making sure.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> That's what I figured.  Just making sure.


 The body molting isnt as bad as a bird without a tail. just stating what I see with my birds, head molt and tail molt I would aviod sending your birds out on training tosses or to races but thats just me .


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I don't know about that. Sometimes the moult is sped up when they have a lot of protien. Although unhealthy birds would have a hard time moulting so that could have some merit. Unless they were referring to having one on each side drop at the same time, which is how it is supposed to work anyway. But I'm assuming they mean 2 on each side at once.
> But yes, they are supposed to moult the outter tail feathers first. I guess you don't notice them because they don't make a gap like the inner feathers do. They moult in order. The outter feathers are 1, then 2, etc down to the two 6's in the very middle. Just like the flights start from the inside and moult their way out to the 10th (or 11th or however many our bird has).


Talking 'bout 11th will confuse a beginner Becky.
Tail feather moulting order is different in Young Birds and OBs.
If a bird drops 2 sets of primaries at the same time, he's healthy alright but underworked, not enough flown.


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

Alamo said:


> All the big shot pigeon guys like Ganus,all say they want pigeons with *ONE pin feather tail **WIDE*.....So if this is the TRUTH,why would anyone want pigeons with a WIDE tail while flying ????? And then,as far as I know,which isn`t much,that pigeons get their speed from their wings and muscles......Alamo


Though pigeons use certain parts of their anatomy more to brake and land, like tail, bastard wing, certain group of muscles... Many elements in a bird and not just feathers, provide LIFT or "portance" to enable it to remain in the air and not fall like a stone. Too many gaps in the feathers, i.e. wing or tail, will reduce this portance and make the bird flap faster to compensate, with the effect of tiring it faster too. It seems some Belgians used to clip a few mm off the tails of their sprinters to increase speed, or reduce "drag", it's a double edged sword... they take the risk of never seeing that bird again.
That's also why fanciers talk about balance, etc... Note that I am not talking about one feather or wide tails here as, not having wide-tailed birds, I don't qualify to talk about that. Although I do agree that a lot of aesthetic considerations have gone into the selection of our racing pigeon.
Us natural flyers believe a pigeon is endowed at birth with the wings and tail that work in harmony with its body (wing butts, forearm, back, muscles, heart, etc), what it *can *do is up to us to find out and not race it with a handicap.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

JPSNAPDY.......You are right on about the dropping of multiple flights...And if you are flying YB`s on the NATURAL system,as I am,that`s exactly what I want them to do....The early races don`t mean much....The races in late Sept,and Oct,are the money races,and the birds need to be fully molted out....Yes,most lofts fly YB`s on the Light or Dark system....But I always liked the Natural way....Alamo


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

Alamo said:


> JPSNAPDY.......You are right on about the dropping of multiple flights...And if you are flying YB`s on the NATURAL system,as I am,that`s exactly what I want them to do....The early races don`t mean much....The races in late Sept,and Oct,are the money races,and the birds need to be fully molted out....Yes,most lofts fly YB`s on the Light or Dark system....But I always liked the Natural way....Alamo


Yes, me too!


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

PigeonVilla said:


> The body molting isnt as bad as a bird without a tail. just stating what I see with my birds, head molt and tail molt I would aviod sending your birds out on training tosses or to races but thats just me .


I believe Young birds that are normally worked (hard for some) will not be "bald". I would not send on long flights but shorter tosses are alright.


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