# Town laws - taking away our pigeon



## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi everyone,

My neighbor is threatening to complain to the town to have our 2 pigeons removed. We are not allowed to keep pigeons based on town laws but NYS DEC has stated that they do not require a permit for us to keep them. One of my two pigeons is blind from the right eye and as you all have strong feelings about your pigeons, you can understand that I do not want to release her (she won't leave anyway). Does anyone know what our rights are? How to appeal? What happens if you don't correct a violation? How seriously do towns enforce this type of thing? I live on Long Island.

Any informatin would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I would start by contacting humane society/spca or something like that. Also, isn't there a huge NYC Pigeon rescue group there ? Google them...someone should know.

I can figure that either health code or zoning code would cover this situation. I would doubt very, very greatly that TWO Pigeons violate ANY applicable codes/laws whatsoever. I doubt you would even be hit with any sort of violation for keeping two domesticated Rock Doves, one being handicapped......

But you should just bone up on them. Might require you calling Animal Care and Control Dept, Health Dept. , and/or Zoning/planning depts. Remember...people in NYC legally keep pigeon lofts with tons of birds....you have only two.

Also, if there is an In Defense Of Animals branch near you (IDA)...contact them as well. They are a very good ally to have in such situations if they are nearby.

Just collect the info, have the code sections, etc. on your side as pushback...should anyone wish to give you problems....

Do not panic at all....doesn't sound like anything would come of this as far as laws and code violations; just sounds like your neighbor is an #ss#ole. 

Maybe suggest they start a hobby so they have something productive to do with their time....


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Hopefully some of the Long Island Fyers -Who are members of this site-will have an answer for you.
Keep us informed with this problem.

Don't get MAD--Get Even.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Sunshine,

I am in upstate and did some "law digging" before I started my loft. Where town are you in? I may be able to help. NYS has some laws that may help you? PM me if you are uncomfortable posting our town in the open forum.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I thought Long Island was one town but what do I know being from Nebraska. I think Sunshine should be polite and tell the neighbor to mind there own buisnes.
Dave


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

NY is not all that normal a place. Common sense does not really prevail here. In some ways it is legislated out of existence. 

Long island is an island with a few little towns on it south east of NYC. NYC makes up a very very small portion of NY state. My area has more cows and trees than people. I am more likely to get killed in a stampede than mugged. But if I _did_ get stampeded my estate would be sued for damage to the livestock. 

Anyway, the town lawyer had some interesting interpretations of federal and NYS laws that I am not sure I should make public.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I've bean to NYS didn't like it you cant see any thing for the trees come to Ne. we dont have that problem.
Dave


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## Budd (Jul 20, 2010)

How does your neighbor know that you have two pigeons? Is it because of the sometimes loud mating calls that may penitrate through the walls? I thought New York would be more tollerant of pigeons because of all the rooftop pigeon lofts there. I'm so glad my apartment neighbors never complain about my 3 pigeons.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

*pigeon law*



Budd said:


> How does your neighbor know that you have two pigeons? Is it because of the sometimes loud mating calls that may penitrate through the walls? I thought New York would be more tollerant of pigeons because of all the rooftop pigeon lofts there. I'm so glad my apartment neighbors never complain about my 3 pigeons.


Hi Budd,

We have built a metal enclosure outside in our backyard. He can see it from his yard. Our pigeons are very quiet normally because we have not given them any "nest" so that they don't make noise because of that neighbor. They have perches. We originally had ****** fly everywhere and come and go as she pleased. She left for two weeks once and came back, hanging around our neighbor's yard all day until we came home. She came flying back the moment we opened the screen door to the yard. He complained then that our pigeon was in his yard all day no matter what he did to make her leave. We decided to keep her enclosed because of him. After a year and a half, he's sent us an unsigned typed notice threatening to complain.

NYS DEC does not have any issues with keeping pigeons. It's a local law issue.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Jaye said:


> I would start by contacting humane society/spca or something like that. Also, isn't there a huge NYC Pigeon rescue group there ? Google them...someone should know.
> 
> I can figure that either health code or zoning code would cover this situation. I would doubt very, very greatly that TWO Pigeons violate ANY applicable codes/laws whatsoever. I doubt you would even be hit with any sort of violation for keeping two domesticated Rock Doves, one being handicapped......
> 
> ...


Hi Jaye,

I have contacted Humane Society already. I will look into IDA as well. The problem is the building code in the town I live. NYS DEC has told me they don't require us to have any permit to keep our pigeons. Our town laws supercede the state laws.  They don't allow ANY pigeon to be kept for any reason. They said I have to request a use permit which will be denied and then I have to appeal to the zoning board which might also deny it. They said if he complains, the inspector will come and might give us the notice of violation and we have to remove them. If we don't, we'll be taken to court and it'll be the judge's decision what to do or how much to fine us. I think basically it'll come down to the inspector who will come to visit us and what kind of person he is.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sunshine123 said:


> The problem is the building code in the town I live.. Our town laws supercede the state laws.


Sunshine123, I am sorry to hear about your troubles. If it were me, I would definitely want to see the code(s) in writing so I could see what is being said and how it is being said to start. Perhaps, if possible, bring them inside for a bit until things cool down.

Karyn


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Interesting. And the town/village actually told you that "pet" pigeons, help in perpetual captivity" are not allowed? Ask them to clarify that point as well as the difference between a captive pigeon and captive parrot. 

When we were addressing our board where no law was yet in place, the village council indicated that the state law superseded the village law _in this case_. I wonder what the difference is.


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## NYBOY (Sep 15, 2009)

New Yorkers think pigeons are disease carring rats with wings. Some of my friends think I am crazy, to keep them. I live in a very stuffy neighborhood, One day a neighbor asked me what kind of birds I had. I told him Indian Fantails, which he commented " they are beautiful birds". I am sure if I answered pigeons, his reaction woulld have been much different. I am sorry you have such a bad Neighbor, good luck.


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## WildFlush (Feb 17, 2010)

Sunshine, your neighbor is a douche bag with way too much time on his hands. My condolences.


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## shawn arnold (Nov 9, 2009)

Ya what WildFlush said. I have the best neighbors all cops and firemen. So there is no complaining. I even have their kids take care of my birds while I'm out of time. Shawn


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Cities. towns and even neighborhood sub divisions can regulate what and any pet you can have. And this is getting to where it happens more and more. Codes and restrictions. What would happen if you made a inside pen for them they would be house pets then. probably ok. to keep then.. But whats funny it the laws on cats most every city does not enforce that law. they say its hard to prove who owns the cat so they do nothing. Shame they have to go after a pigeon keeper.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree with the douche bag statement! Must be a very bored person with to much free time on their hands 
And since when doe's town override state - never heard of such a thing
Usually State law overrides town.
I wouldn't lay down without a fight - I'd find "dirt" on that neighbor! 
I would "legally" drive him crazy if he messed with my pets!


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

I am not sure about this but there might be a law which is related to taking care of injured/sick/handicapped animals or birds. One eyed pigeon is a handicapped bird, may be you can give a try in that line also.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

*pigeons*



Sunshine123 said:


> Hi Budd,
> 
> We have built a metal enclosure outside in our backyard. He can see it from his yard. Our pigeons are very quiet normally because we have not given them any "nest" so that they don't make noise because of that neighbor. They have perches. We originally had ****** fly everywhere and come and go as she pleased. She left for two weeks once and came back, hanging around our neighbor's yard all day until we came home. She came flying back the moment we opened the screen door to the yard. He complained then that our pigeon was in his yard all day no matter what he did to make her leave. We decided to keep her enclosed because of him. After a year and a half, he's sent us an unsigned typed notice threatening to complain.
> 
> NYS DEC does not have any issues with keeping pigeons. It's a local law issue.


if it comes to that, take their house down, and let them loose, they wont go, right, u can also shake some eggs , put them on the sun for a week, them, throw them to ur neighbors, they will love that


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2010)

I will tell you this if you have to get rid of them I will take them for you if you would like that


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Jaysen said:


> Interesting. And the town/village actually told you that "pet" pigeons, help in perpetual captivity" are not allowed? Ask them to clarify that point as well as the difference between a captive pigeon and captive parrot.
> 
> When we were addressing our board where no law was yet in place, the village council indicated that the state law superseded the village law _in this case_. I wonder what the difference is.



In our case, the local law supercedes the state law because they already have laws in place. I spoke to NYS DEC about this. The town code states pigeons (without specifying any) along with all sorts of other animals such as rabbits, snakes, ducks, etc. They were very specific in that we cannot keep any pigeon in any way, whether in the yard or in the house.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Thank you everyone for all your words of kindness and concern. Rest assured we are not going down without a fight. I have been trying to get as much information as I can so that we're ready when and if the building department inspector is called to our house. Then it will be war. The best war would be to invite all pigeons and other birds to come feast in our yard, which is quite simple and very pleasant. I enjoy company of all birds quite a bit! We will find a way. I can't imagine not having my babies in my life. It will be quite devestating. We are not staying here more than another couple of years hopefully and when we go, we'll make sure to get a place where our home is our home and we can keep whatever we want in it!


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

Sunshine123 said:


> Thank you everyone for all your words of kindness and concern. Rest assured we are not going down without a fight. I have been trying to get as much information as I can so that we're ready when and if the building department inspector is called to our house. Then it will be war. The best war would be to invite all pigeons and other birds to come feast in our yard, which is quite simple and very pleasant. I enjoy company of all birds quite a bit! We will find a way. I can't imagine not having my babies in my life. It will be quite devestating. We are not staying here more than another couple of years hopefully and when we go, we'll make sure to get a place where our home is our home and we can keep whatever we want in it!


town laws do not supersed states, whoever told u that in city hall is full of ****


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

town laws are only on place for traffic and city ordinances, but state laws can be invoke at any time, sometimes a lawyer is on place, but if there s pigeons in another cities u can fight it real easy, call pigeons groups around


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

listen, u should talk to ur neighbors openly and ask whats bothering them , even if they r not right, ask and listen to them, like u care, u kn ow, them explain to them that u will correct whatever is bother tehm, kiss their booty a little bit, swallow ur pride a little, talk to the woman of the house, they tent to be more soft inside, lol, dont know, bring them a pie, them explain ur attachment to them tell them u know they are healthy, bla bla bla, that will make them feel guilty to complaint, get in their good side, lol


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

if that dont work, them get a lawyer, if that dont work, u should get like a 100 bird feeders, squerrels feeders, u name it, and put it in ur back yard, next to their fence, also, dont u have loose pigeons, ferals around there, u can let them loose, them put a house up at night for them to sleep.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

jeo73 said:


> listen, u should talk to ur neighbors openly and ask whats bothering them , even if they r not right, ask and listen to them, like u care, u kn ow, them explain to them that u will correct whatever is bother tehm, kiss their booty a little bit, swallow ur pride a little, talk to the woman of the house, they tent to be more soft inside, lol, dont know, bring them a pie, them explain ur attachment to them tell them u know they are healthy, bla bla bla, that will make them feel guilty to complaint, get in their good side, lol


And if that doesn't work get some grass killer in a spray bottle and wright bad things about our President in the front yard.Dave


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> And if that doesn't work get some grass killer in a spray bottle and wright bad things about our President in the front yard.Dave


PRICELESS!


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

They have so many lofts in Long Island. Go to http://ifpigeon.com/ call the secretary he's out of East Meadow maybe he could help you out. His number is on the web site. Some neighbors are bored dont have nothing else to do.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

listen, if it comes to the needy greedy, u email me on private, and give me ur neighbors name, and we can make their lifes misserable, we can subscribe them to 1000 magazines, spray their yard with round up, throw eggs at them, i have a vivid imagination, iam nice, but if i had a neighbor like that, ill make them move, just be cautious, lol, sorry, i shouldnt be giving u bad advice, u just get on his good side if possible, is very annoying to have an idiot for a neighbor tell us how things are going, please, thanks


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> And if that doesn't work get some grass killer in a spray bottle and wright bad things about our President in the front yard.Dave


amen, that will do too, sign al quida also


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Don't get Mad --I'd get even
Go to the post office--Have his mail Forwarded /Change of Address t0 somewhere in Alaska. 
All his Bill's will go there-Along with ALL his mail.-they won't get paid--He will start getting upseting Phone calls.
Just another Idea


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Don't get Mad --I'd get even
> Go to the post office--Have his mail Forwarded /Change of Address t0 somewhere in Alaska.
> All his Bill's will go there-Along with ALL his mail.-they won't get paid--He will start getting upseting Phone calls.
> Just another Idea


Good idea, but it won't work. You would have to show proof of who you were at the Post Office, before they would reroute his mail. Besides, they could already know the guy if it is their local P.O.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Just bring the birds inside the house.

If any type of law enforcement knocks on your door, be it, animal control, building inspectors, ect. REFUSE to let them inside.

We still have a few rights left in the USA.........they can not enter your home without your permission without a search warrant.

Chances are slim to none that any judge would sign off on a search warrant for pet pigeons.


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

lwerden said:


> Just bring the birds inside the house.
> 
> If any type of law enforcement knocks on your door, be it, animal control, building inspectors, ect. REFUSE to let them inside.
> 
> ...


Good idea .


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

lwerden said:


> Just bring the birds inside the house.
> 
> If any type of law enforcement knocks on your door, be it, animal control, building inspectors, ect. REFUSE to let them inside.
> 
> ...


This idea is the nicest one so far and completly legal, as I said in another post "I really dont like jail"
Dave


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

lwerden said:


> Just bring the birds inside the house.
> 
> If any type of law enforcement knocks on your door, be it, animal control, building inspectors, ect. REFUSE to let them inside.
> 
> ...


Best idea! Just bring them inside, dismantle the outside cage - you don't have them anymore.
Buy them some "pigeon pants" and let them fly inside for exercise.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Best idea! Just bring them inside, dismantle the outside cage - you don't have them anymore.
> Buy them some "pigeon pants" and let them fly inside for exercise.


If it came to that, I'd bring them inside also. You don't have them anymore. "WHAT PIGEONS"?


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm sorry that this is happening. I do agree with the "bring them inside" idea, like they said no one can enter your home without a warrant. While "getting even" vandalism sounds good, it's not worth geting sent to jail over ( who will care for your pijies if that happens) While you can't legally tamper with the mail ( I did get a good laugh over rerouting it all to Alaska) you can sign them up for guaranteed delivery of junk mail and annoying visits. Sign them up for every fruit cake organization that you can think of, every far out religious group, every 1-800 number you see advertised on TV, every group that deals with addiction or sexual dysfunction...cheap revenge but mine own.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

The gentle coooing of pigeons is nothing compared to the noise humans make.............I would invite all my friends with little kids over, let them scream, play and have a great time in my yard - on that neighbors side.
I'd start up the weed wacker at 7 am Sunday morning - I love yard work
Take up a hobby that requires alot of hammering - like building bird houses or raised gardens
There are alot of legal things you can do to annoy the hell out of someone, and I'd find something to do


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Tell them you are going to get a couple of dogs as pets if the birds have to go.BIG DOGS that bark alot and maybe a couple of cats that can crap all over his lawn.

My neighbours complained about my first loft being an eyesore to the council but luckily they didnt have a leg to stand on as it was my 

house and my back yard and i hadnt broke any regulations.In response to this i went on to paint my loft bright pink!!!!!! I have since relocated and invested in a new loft,i sure hope i dont have to paint this one.I left the old one where it stood when i sold the house.


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## Possum Fat (Mar 18, 2010)

Yall can come spray Round Up on my yard too...save me havin to mow...

Alright here's how I handled a similiar situation...

Neighbor complained to the cops. She was an old lady that always cussed the kids for walking on her lawn..cussed me because my truck was too loud...nothing could make her happy.

When a cop dropped by (and he knew she was full of crap) I just told him that these birds come and go as they please..I turn em loose every evening but they just hang around. But I don't mind having them around. Kinda like the deer that hang around. Cop didn't see a problem with it. At the time I had a 13 bird kit of rollers that I flew in the evenings bout an hour before dark. I opened the door to let them out then shut the door after dark.

The next day I told her that if anything were to happen to the pigeons that HAPPENED to live in my shed out back of MY property...I would personally destroy everything she loves and holds sacred. My life has been cut short enough as it is and I will not tolerate someone trying to cause trouble for me just because they have nothing else to do.

Thankfully I've outlived her but I never had another problem out of her after she called the cops and we had a friendly front porch chat.

PF


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## FriendoCritters (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't know much about it, but here is a website of the National Wildlife Fereration, which says anyone can have a certified wildlife habitat at their home, even if it's only on their apartment balcony, and I think it's pretty easy.

http://www.nwf.org/Get-Outside/Outdoor-Activities/Garden-for-Wildlife/Create-a-Habitat.aspx

Also, there's a Wildlife Rescue Center in the Hamptons on Long Island. The number I found for them is (631) 728-9453. They may know what you can do to keep your pigeons. 

It seems to me that if you set them free regularly, then you aren't "keeping" them "permanently."

It might help you to have on hand authoritative printouts regarding the low risk to humans of diseases from pigeons, such as the one here:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/ExprtsRePijZoonos.html

Best of luck to you and your pijjies.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all your colorful ideas. Since the statement was not signed, we cannot accuse anyone and approach them. 

If we were to lose, we will create a wildlife habitat for all the pigeons in the area and other birds but that is not going to help our case at the moment. Our town allows us to feed pigeons but not keep them.

Our pigeons are not free to fly outside. When the neighbor complained the first time, we had to detain them inside an enclosure where they live now. Since ****** is blind from one eye, we are not willing to test it to see if she can fly away and survive and come back. 

We clearly have something our town has in the codes as illegal. I have spoken to NYS DEC and they have stated the local laws supersede state laws in these matters. Additionally, being a wildlife rehabilitator does not apply because we are not allowed to keep wildlife for any period of time where I live.

As for not allowing the inspector in the house, I have spoken to the police department who has said we shouldn't go that route because they will call the police department and we'll have to one way or the other let them in. Let's not create issues before we need to. We're planning to be very kind to the inspector and see what he says.

I've spoken to our town councilman's office and they have stated the only person who can change the code or allow for an exception is the judge. We will need to hire an attorney in order to try to combat the town as this is not the movies. Good people don't win on their own, if at all.

I have contacted every organization recommended and those not listed, to no avail. I am very frustrated and scared. And if I have not mentioned it yet, I am quite stubborn. I do not go out without a fight. So I will not take down an enclosure that doesn't bother anyone where TWO birds enjoy sunshine and life because someone threatened me in an anonymous letter.

We are planning to move but because of the situation created thanks to our other countrymen and their mortgage payment habits, we are not able to sell our house at a reasonable price yet. Our move might come too late in relation to when we get visited by the building department. 

Does anyone know an inspector or judge in Nassau County, LI? That's probably the question I need to pose.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

lwerden said:


> Just bring the birds inside the house.
> 
> If any type of law enforcement knocks on your door, be it, animal control, building inspectors, ect. REFUSE to let them inside.
> 
> ...


I like your Idea........


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I think you might want to consider sending your pets to a temporary home while you continue to work on relocating. I know this is tough as these birds are part of your family, but there are lots of lofts and rehabbers that could help. And if you know where you are moving too you might even find someone there who will house your birds in advance of your arrival. 

This way you know the birds are safe and you are our of the legal issue. 

Just a thought.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

shawn arnold said:


> Ya what WildFlush said. I have the best neighbors all cops and firemen. So there is no complaining. I even have their kids take care of my birds while I'm out of time. Shawn


I know cops and firemen who are pigeons guys as well as lawyers and game wardens and a sherrif in Tennessee.


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## eshghekaftar (Mar 7, 2009)

I went through the same situation with my neighbour at our last house. The only difference was that he did call the town and the town basically gave me a week to remove my birds from my property, which of course I didn't. Then they charged me with bylaw violation. Naturally I decided to fight it legally, hired a lawyer, contacted every pigeon club and animal rights organization and asked for support. The fight took about 2 stressful years and cost me over $5,000 legal fees, court cost, and fine and needless to say a lot of stress AND I lost the case. Judge gave me 1 month to remove them. The same day I called my agent and put the house for sale and we moved.

The point is don't keep your hopes too high trying to change the law or your neighbours. If the law in your town says that you can not keep pigeons, then you can not keep pigeons no matter what!! Your least expensive option in terms of money, time, stress is to move!!

Good luck


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

Jaysen said:


> I think you might want to consider sending your pets to a temporary home while you continue to work on relocating. I know this is tough as these birds are part of your family, but there are lots of lofts and rehabbers that could help. And if you know where you are moving too you might even find someone there who will house your birds in advance of your arrival.
> 
> This way you know the birds are safe and you are our of the legal issue.
> 
> Just a thought.


amen to that. best advice in here. unless u dont want to relocate,have u try to sweetening ur neighbors


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Yeah 
send em a pigeon shaped cake that says "Eat Me!"
lol


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

*eshghekaftar* We're not planning to go the lawyer route. As I found out from the calls I made already, no one is going to help and no attorney does this pro-bono. Basically the plan is to sit and wait until he calls the town. Then go from there. We're definitely planning to move, maybe faster than originally planned. We'll look for a place that allows all animals. We might also get a screaming parrot that we'll leave in the yard for the ears of our neighbor and feed 1000 pigeons a day while we wait to move.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Jaysen said:


> NY is not all that normal a place. Common sense does not really prevail here. In some ways it is legislated out of existence.
> 
> Long island is an island with a few little towns on it south east of NYC. NYC makes up a very very small portion of NY state. My area has more cows and trees than people. I am more likely to get killed in a stampede than mugged. But if I _did_ get stampeded my estate would be sued for damage to the livestock.
> 
> Anyway, the town lawyer had some interesting interpretations of federal and NYS laws that I am not sure I should make public.


Long Island has more then a few lil towns there's more ppl on Long Island then there are in many states.

Found this online "Long Island had a population of 7,448,618 as of the 2000 census,[2] making it the most populated island in any U.S. state or territory. It is also the 17th most populous island in the world, ahead of Ireland, Jamaica and the Japanese island of Hokkaido. Its population density is 5,470 inhabitants per square mile (2,110 /km2). If it were a state, Long Island would rank 12th in population."

The total population of all NY is 18,976,457 which would mean the small lil island known as Long Island has just about 40% of the states populaion.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

As soon as I started reading this thread I knew you were in Nassau. Which has made it illegal to have pigeons. But they don't enforce the law unless a neighbor complains. Which you almost always will have a neighbor that has nothing better to do then try to control what everybody else in the neighborhood can do. That's why there isn't too many flyers in my combine from there maybe 15 to 20 and I think only one has them legally. But he almost had to get rid of his birds as well. He had to get lawyers and he was able to keep the birds he had to go to all the houses within some many feet of his loft and if anybody didn't want them he would of had to get rid of them. He got lucky and the guy who was complaining lived outside of that area. It's actually thought that it was a fellow pigeon guy who complained because this guy was winning alot of races at that time. And all the neighbors signed the petition to let him keep the birds. But this won't work for you since it's a close neighbor who's most likly doing the complianing


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

eshghekaftar said:


> I went through the same situation with my neighbour at our last house. The only difference was that he did call the town and the town basically gave me a week to remove my birds from my property, which of course I didn't. Then they charged me with bylaw violation. Naturally I decided to fight it legally, hired a lawyer, contacted every pigeon club and animal rights organization and asked for support. The fight took about 2 stressful years and cost me over $5,000 legal fees, court cost, and fine and needless to say a lot of stress AND I lost the case. Judge gave me 1 month to remove them. The same day I called my agent and put the house for sale and we moved.
> 
> The point is don't keep your hopes too high trying to change the law or your neighbours. If the law in your town says that you can not keep pigeons, then you can not keep pigeons no matter what!! Your least expensive option in terms of money, time, stress is to move!!
> 
> Good luck


Good advice. I'm not in Nassau I'm in the other county on Long Island known as Suffolk it's legal to have them here if you get the right permits and follow strict regulations. But I had a few complaints about the pigeons going back many years. I've had the health dept the town code enforcement the suffolk ASPCA all come on meny occasions because of neighbors complaining. And it's alway the new ppl who move in after they see the coops there when the bought the house. Their big argument is that my pigeons decrease the value of the house. I tell them they should be happy then because they got the house cheaper then they would have if the pigeons weren't there.


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## Zenmont (Oct 17, 2006)

*This is what your rights are*

Okay, I'm also in NY state and I know that the law for the entire state says (and this only applies if you are living in a multiple dwelling apartment building...3 or 4 apartments per building do not count, nor do houses) that you can't have pigeons, rabbits, horses, cows, chickens, etc in your apartment. I'm assuming from your post that you live in your own house. If you keep the birds contained in your yard, I can't see the problem with this neighbor unless he just wants to be a pain in the butt. I think the zoning laws are only if you have your birds flying around outside. It shouldn't affect you if you keep them enclosed in a cage. Also, don't just take what a receptionist at the health or zoning board tells you over the phone...sometimes the person who does the answering at these places isn't the most informed one there. Or they weren't clear that your birds are never loose. Speak to the head person at any agency you call. The other thing you could agree to, if the neighbor is paranoid that he will get a disease or something, is to keep them indoors all the time. I know that apartment wise, you can get around the NY state law if your pigeons are homing pigeons. For some reasons they are allowed. Maybe that will apply here? Some vets will sign an affidavit, if they like you, claiming that your birds are homers and usually the landlords don't want to spend the money to bring in an expert to contradict this. I was told there also was another law that if you have an injured bird that can't be released (I believe you said you have a one eyed bird?) then you can, by law, keep that animal. Now if you are in a house, I'm not sure if all this applies to you, but you could look into it. They do have pet/animal attorneys who deal with this sort of thing and know the pet laws for certain counties. I also have a one eyed bird and a bird with this type of handicap would be no match for a hawk...it's hard enough for a pigeon who has both eyes to avoid a hawk attack. I'm amazed how it's okay to own huge Amazon parrots, who are very noisy, but people complain about pigeons. I know people who have boa constrictors. These are allowed, but pigeons are not. If you have to fight this in court or go up against the town zoning board, etc, see the info below to use against them. Or just print it out and give to your neighbor. It might assuage his fears. Hope this helps you:

Understanding Zoonotic Diseases of Pigeons in NYC 
Dr. Anthony A. Pilny, DVM, Dipl ABVP (Avian):

The frequency of disease transmission from birds to humans is very LOW, but the young, the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems should be cautious as bird to human disease transmission is known to occur. Many of these diseases are transmitted by ingestion of food contaminated by fecal matter. Prevention of most of these diseases, therefore, simply involves proper hygiene and sanitation, and common sense. Contact with pigeon droppings may pose a SMALL health risk. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention lists three human diseases known to be associated with birds (including pet birds such a parrots) and associated with pigeons/droppings: histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, and psittacosis.

The FACTS:

Psittacosis - Since 1996, fewer than 50 confirmed cases were reported in the United States annually. In New York City, psittacosis is VERY RARE with less than ONE human case identified each year. According to the CDC, about 70% of infected people had contact with infected pet birds – not pigeons.

Cryptococcosis - Approximately 0.4-1.3 cases per 100,000 people in the general population are reported. It is very unlikely that healthy people will become infected even at high levels of exposure.

Histoplasmosis – An incidence is not reported so it is assumed to be low. Once again immunocompromised individuals are at greater risk and those in third world countries.

As one can see – risk of contracting disease from pigeons in NYC is very low and has not been proven to pose any public health threat. Diagnostic screening (medical testing) of the pigeon population in NYC for the few zoonotic diseases that exist has not been performed and would definitely shed light on the true incidence and risk. Routine cleaning of droppings (e.g. from windowsills) does NOT pose a serious health risk to most people. Some simple precautions can be taken to further reduce direct contact with droppings, such as wearing disposable gloves and clothes that can be washed after exposure.

As far as I know – NYC hospitals are not inundated with patients sick from living in an environment with pigeons. As an avian veterinarian who sees and treats pigeons, I believe there is little risk to myself and staff from working with these birds. I don’t have fear of becoming ill by walking around and visiting the parks, or just living here in NYC with our wonderful pigeons.

References:
http://www.cdc.gov/
http://www.nyc.gov/
http://www.abolishpestcontrol.com/articles/pigeondisease.pdf

Anthony A. Pilny, DVM, Dipl ABVP (Avian)
http://www.avianexoticpetvet.com/

New York City Health Department:

Despite their reputation as disease carriers, the city Health Department does not consider pigeons a major danger and says the average New Yorker is not at risk of catching anything from the birds or their droppings.

Source: ABC News, New York, NY

Manhattan Albert Einstein College of Medicine:

Dr. Arturo Casadevall (one of the world's foremost experts in pigeon poop)
Director of Division of Infectious Diseases
Manhattan Albert Einstein College of Medicine

Picking on pigeons is unwarranted, Casadevall warns. "Pigeons are no different than other animals. When it comes to spreading disease, they don’t stand out. Dogs can have worms; bats, rabies; cats, toxoplasmosis . . . We’re exposed to microbes everywhere. You can get diseases from any animal, even a cockatoo. To single out pigeons is unfair.”

Gulf News.com

The following are quotes from credible experts with the REAL FACTS about pigeons and public health: -

TV series segment, Healthier Living, shows how feeding wild pigeons helps relieve the stresses of day to day living.

"...diseases associated with [pigeons] present little risk to people..."
Dr. Michael McNeil, Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta.

"One man's nuisance is another man's pleasure." "'People worry that pigeons carry disease,' but the danger is 'an exaggeration created by pest control companies looking for business.'" -
Guy Hodge, Naturalist for the Humane Society of the United States.

"The New York City Department of Health has no documented cases of communicable disease transmitted from pigeons to humans." -
Dr. Manuel Vargas, New York City Department of Health.

"Pigeons are not a public health hazard. Nobody in public health is losing any sleep over pigeons." -
Dr. Joel McCullough, Medical Director, Environmental Health, Chicago Department of Public Health.

"[...the Arizona Department of Health Services does] not have any documented human cases of disease which have been definitively linked to outdoor pigeons or pigeon droppings. When cases of diseases are reported (and by law [certain bird related zoonoses are] reportable diseases), VBZD staff conduct complete investigations to confirm the diagnosis and identify the source of infection. …Our case investigation data gathered so far, would suggest that pigeons are not significant as a cause of human disease in Arizona."

“We don’t see pigeon-related-disease problems...” “I don’t think they’re seeing them anywhere..." -
Bill Kottkamp, Supervisor, Vector Control, St. Louis County Health Department

"Pigeons do not get avian influenza and don't carry the virus."
Dr. Cornelius Kiley, DVM, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Although pigeons have been shown to become infected with West Nile Virus, they do not act as reservoirs and therefore don't transmit the virus..." -
Pennsylvania West Nile Virus Surveillance Program.

As a result, pigeons are generally no longer accepted for West Nile Virus testing by other government disease-surveillance agencies in the U.S and elsewhere.

“We do have some concern about the indiscriminate killing of pigeons.” “[For example, histoplasmosis disease rates are] misleading and irrelevant, because histo’s so ubiquitous. It’s in the soil, regardless of whether pigeons are around or not...”-
Dr. Marshall Lyon, National Center for Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta

“Problematic density [affecting human safety] is probably more determined by people getting their possessions defaced.” “I’m not terribly worried about pigeons.” -
Dr. Alex Bermudez, University of Missouri-Columbia College of Veterinary Medicine

"I am not aware of any reported cases of diseases that were transmitted by pigeons in Mohave County." -
Larry Webert, R.S., Mohave County Environmental Health Division

"Pigeons aren't a big worry" -
Rex Sohn, wildlife disease specialist at the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wis. 
Posted by New York Bird Club at 5:53 PM 
Labels: birds, disease, parrots, pigeons


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

*Dobato, Jaysen, NYBOY, WildFlush, shawn arnold*

Thank you all for your posts. It seems that things have cooled off for the time being, or so we hope. There has not been any further notes from our neighbor. Hopefully we won't hear anymore from him. However, this is what the town code says:

...no premises may be used or occupied and no structure erected or maintained for the harboring of pigeons, poultry, fowl, ducks, geese, swine, goats, sheep, lambs, horses, ponies, donkeys, snakes, cattle, monkeys, rabbits, chinchillas, minks, skunks, foxes or bees... 

We're keeping our fingers crossed that our move (2012?) comes before any further issues with this guy or anyone else.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

*Pigeon0446*

Thanks for all your posts. I like your last comment. We're being careful with the next neighborhood we choose. I've already called ahead to one place and they said they have no restrictions on any bird, well almost any. I didn't ask about ducks, geese etc. We definitely want to pick a place where we can have whatever animal we want and as many as we want and let them run amock.  They did tell me that we couldn't have a bird sanctuary. lol I think that means we have to move further into the middle of nowhere.


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## Sunshine123 (Dec 11, 2009)

*Zenmont*

Thanks for your detailed post with lots of useful information. For the time being, it appears that the neighbor has dropped his complaints. We have not had any further notices from them. 

I actually did speak to an inspector, attorneys, and NYSDEC. They all said the same thing. My town codes supersede the state. We are not allowed to keep any sort of pigeon whatsoever. The operative word being keep. We can feed them but not keep them in any structure or inside or outside of the house.

...no premises may be used or occupied and no structure erected or maintained for the harboring of pigeons, poultry, fowl, ducks, geese, swine, goats, sheep, lambs, horses, ponies, donkeys, snakes, cattle, monkeys, rabbits, chinchillas, minks, skunks, foxes or bees...


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I'd still take them inside, then go and get the biggest bag of pigeon food you can buy, then cover your neighbours yard and front garden with it every night. 
Get up early to watch his face at his window as all the neigborhood ferals have breakfast


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## Inwood Pigeon Rescue (Aug 25, 2011)

*ASPCA - Pet Pigeons in NYC OK*

I recently had some issue with a roomate who broke his lease, and after leaving wanted to cite my pets as an excuse for leaving. I called the ASPCA and was told by Agent Kelly that pet pigeons are NOT a violation.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Inwood Pigeon Rescue said:


> I recently had some issue with a roomate who broke his lease, and after leaving wanted to cite my pets as an excuse for leaving. I called the ASPCA and was told by Agent Kelly that pet pigeons are NOT a violation.


That's great for you, but each town makes their own laws.


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## gunnarwordon (Jan 14, 2012)

I live in a town called Chatham New York, and own pigeons and chickens. If they find out I have them, do the authorities have the right to enter my property to confiscate them? Do they need a warrant?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would imagine that you would get a letter from them first, telling you that you had to get rid of them. Can you not have them where you are? Have you checked the codes there?


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