# What's the best way to wean a pigeon?



## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi everybody, I'm new to Pigeon Talk and I need some help please. Yesterday I found a baby pigeon on a busy inner city street in Sydney. He came up to me flapped his wings and squeaked! From photos I studied on the net he/she appears to be about 20-22 days old. He is not quite fully fledged, still bare under wings, tail feathers still not long and a few yellow baby fluffs on his head and back. He has no apparent injuries, eyes are bright and clear, wings extend fine and feet are good. He was uninterested in food last night when we brought him home and his crop felt as if it contained some food. We kept him warm in a box with a towel wrapped hot water bottle (which I changed during the wee hours). This morning he still was bright and perky but not hungry. However, I tried without much success to get him to take some water. just managed to dribble a bit in the side of his mouth with my finger. when we returned late morning he was out of his box, perched on my nanna rug on the sofa and enjoying the sun through the window. He was also ravenous and set up such squeaking!! with nothing else at hand I fed him mashed up seed bread by the syringe method. messy but worth it. He is totally uninterested in pigeon mix; doesn't seem to know what to do with it. I contacted an avian vet who sold me a product for hand rearing babybirds. he will take about 15-20 ccs but starts squeaking after a couple of hours. he seems to like company and climbs up to settle on my husband's shoulder. He poos well, a little runny but plenty of it. He obviously hasn't been weaned yet and I would like some advice on the best way to do this. I tried to prise open his beak and managed to put in a little banana and i have cooked him some rice to try later but I am afraid of hurting him. We live in a small terrace house with no garage and I am also worried about containing him while he grows and becomes strong. I hope to release him to a flock in one of the parks when (and if) he is ready. I would really appreciate some advice.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anesta,

Welcome to Pigeon-Talk, and thanks for helping this little guy out.

Here is a link to a thread with excellent instructions on how to start the weaning process. Also, with getting him to drink, get a small cup filled with tepid water, not cool/to cold, and gently guide his beak into it, it may take a few goes, but doing this should help with the self watering issue. Pigeons are not really fruit eaters, they are granivores, grain/seed eaters, so the banana will not instinctively seem to be food to him. The cooked rice should be fine, as this is the type of thing he will later find in his wild foraging. Give the link below a good read, the fellow who wrote most of it, Phil (pdpbison) will be around at some point today, so if you have any questions, ask them, and if you don't see an immediate reply, do check back. Other members may chime in as well.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/feeding-a-three-week-old-pigeon-27936-2.html

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

He sounds old enough to be fed defrosted (or raw) peas and corn, serve them warm starting , feeding until the crop feels like a beanie baby.

*This video* shows how.

As he is still squeaking could wean him on to seed or pellets using the *method illustrated by Marian* but he will need to get plenty of water for that. To help him drink you can place warm water in a container and dip his beak in it. At the moment I am trying to wean a dove, I have a kitte feeding bottle with the teat cut off, I place the baby's beak in the hole and he drinks the water, pulling his beak back when he has had enough. That method also works well for feeding formula. One of Marian's photos shows how you can encourage a baby to open its beak by sliding it through two fingers (first photo on the page). If he gapes for that you could use that beak opening method for pea and corn "pops"


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Thank you Karyn for the excellent advice on getting my pigeon baby to drink. It worked very well. Also thanks for the great link; lots of interesting tips. 
Thanks also Feefo for the video instruction of how to open his mouth, and Marian's method for bottle feeding solids. I will try it later today. Babybird had a big feed and a passed a cosy night in my husband's warm dark study. This morning he put away nearly 30ccs of his formula in a flash and later on had a good drink of water flapped his wings a lot (so much for exercise) and is happily perched on the back of the sofa enjoying the morning sun. When the sun gets on the grass out the back I'll take him outside for a little scratch around. 
I have one other concern. After reading the thread from the rescuer in Sarajevo and looking at her photos, and reading the expert's comments on canker or Trichomonas infection, I checked my little one's face and he seems to have an absence of feathers under his jaw. Is this always indicative of this condition? He seems so perky and squeaks whenever one of us approaches as he thinks we have food and pecks our fingers, (yesterday he got on my chest and pecked my lips). Poos are firm brown and white on top with an occaisonal sloppy one. Later, I shall endeavour to look down his throat for telltale signs. I'd prefer to treat him sooner rather than later so might get in some metronidazole anyway (hubby's a medico). If I understand correctly, the dosage is 250mg per kilo of bodyweight? Is this once a day or more?
Thanks again for all your help. It gladdens me to know that there are so many caring people in this often heartless world of ours.
Anesta


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anesta,

Glad things went well with the drinking, but thanks go to Phil (pdpbison), as what I wrote is right out the instructions he has given so many times, I know it by heart.

Why don't you start with having a good look in and around his mouth area and down his throat, use a flash light if need be, to see if you see anything other than a nice pink tissue everywhere, look for little cheesy looking buttons, yellowish in color and let us know what you find. There is such a wide range of dosing for Metronidazole out there any number of which will do the job. The 250mg/kg you cite is at the upper end of dosing and I think a more appropriate dosing for your young one may be 50mg/kg BID (twice a day) for 5 days. If you could get a photo up of the area of concern it would be helpful in seeing what's going on with that area of the jaw.

Karyn


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i usually wean my babies, i place seed in front of them and i peck on the seeds with my fingers.. babies learn fast..
ummm what is she doing, maybe i should try  so they do it
thats honestly the only way i wean..
i put some effort in it..
my first baby i had to stand there with my finger in the plate or else he wouldt eat..he was a social eater


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Anesta - at about 5 weeks old read up on the 'soft release' method - do a search on the Forum (& if you cannot come up w\anything e-mail or PM me). This will be the method you HAVE to use to get your pal ready for release back into the feral world (but not before eight weeks please !) Sounds like you are doing well - i second Feefo on the peas and corn method - baby can start moving off of formula now.


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi Karyn, well we managed a quick look down the baby's throat. All clear so far... nice and pink. I tried him on some small pellets using Marian's method but no go even tho he was famished, so I mixed some into his formula and shall keep increasing the amount. He is putting away a lot of food and is noticeably sleeker than 2 days ago. I use a 20cc plastic syringe with the end cut off and covered with latex rather than fabric. This works much better as it gently grips the sides of his beak and feeds are much cleaner and more enjoyable (for both of us). He is also preening and really likes to sit on my husband's head! He likes to be up high (natch) and the little tyrant has taken over the back of the sofa so tomorrow we will convert a planter into a platform for him, complete with wall to wall carpet. Will also be able to keep the many poos a bit more confined around his perch. It's winter here so outside time is not really an option even on sunny days.Thank you also for the metranidazole dosage advice. Will try to post a photo when my hubby figures out how to do it. 
Thanks also to you, Goga82 for the weaning advice. We will start pecking instruction tomorrow in earnest and keep an eye on the feathers.
Also Jaye many thanks for the "soft release" info. I shall start searching so I can be prepared. I want to do my best to rehabilitate him.
I again thank you all for your advice and support. Pigeons are considered vermin in this country and no one, neither RSPCA or Wires (wildlife rescue) want to know about them. You even have to vet the vets so to speak.
Anesta


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Anesta, I thought I would mention one thing, as I am not entirely clear whether you are doing this or not, and that is he should be getting 3-4 20cc meals a day while you are trying to wean him, just make sure his crop empties between feedings. When you said he is looking sleeker than two days ago, I just want to confirm he is getting enough food throughout the day. Glad to hear things look clear and pink. Look forward to the photos when you get things straightened out.

Karyn


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Thanks Karyn,
yesterday he had 4 very large meals, each 25-30ccs. this morning he wasn't madly hungry and only took a bit more than 10 so I fed him a 4 or 5 warmed frozen peas straight down the gullet. We had to go out, and when we got back 6 hours later he was famished and gobbled 25ccs+ in no time. He is drinking well but so far only with my assistance and when he isn't thirsty he certainly lets me know. I will weigh him before his next feed, and do so every couple of days. By sleeker I meant that he is looking a bit less motheaten and he has been preening a bit more. At the moment he is getting used to his new "day" platform; a shallow sided but wide and strong cardboard box with the front cut down a bit which we have attached firmly to a tall indoor pot plant container. it's a bit more than 4ft off the ground. Whenever we are in sight he starts squeaking but stops as soon as we are out of sight. He is very attracted to blue, especially dark blue. Is this common?
We both have to work tomorrow so the only thing I can do is make sure he has a big feed before I leave and a drink. Any suggestions as to how others handle this? I won't leave him on his day perch but in his night box in the study with water and the heater on low.
thanks again
Anesta


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

I just went to clean out babybird's night box and there was a lot of what I imagine is crumbled up feather sheaths with 1 or 2 bigger bits about 4-5mm long. Is this normal at his age (about 23 days)? I can't see any crawlies and he doesn't scratch but he does preen a bit; under wings, under tail, back etc. We sometimes get into quite a mess with his formula feeds which I try to wipe off with a warm wet face towel. It's not very successful so I am trying a clean, soft toothbrush with better results. He can't groom around his face very well or the back of his head.
I would appreciate some advice re the feather sheaths. Could it be mites? Is he too young to spray? 
Anesta
p.s. this is a bit like having one's first human baby all over again; having to learn it all from scratch and it takes up quite a lot of time but we are getting a bit better organized!
we are also getting through lots of hand and face towels. like baby nappies all over again!


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Babybird is extremely proud of himself! not only has he learned to drink but he has learned to peck up his dry mix (small pellets with added vitamins etc. plus pigeon mix from which I laboriously remove the larger bits). I fear he is becoming spoiled as this evening the only thing to shut him up was being allowed to perch on Ron's head, where he happily settled down and nodded off. A towelling hat protect's Ron's head from pigeon feet. Baby has now been put to bed in the study with heater, water bottle, seed mix and water after 15ccs of his formula, but even tho he is very tired I feel he has gone reluctantly. This reminds me of a Gary Larsen cartoon about the couple with the spoiled duck who, trying to be firm, resolve NOT to drive him south for the winter.
Anesta


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Anesta, everything sounds normal and fine, lots of feather sheaths are to be expected "shelled" from all the new feathers coming in he will need for flight and new feathers in general so there will tons of feather "debris". To ease your mind about unwanted visitors and have a look under each wing and see if you see anything that looks like a small, thin, pencil line that moves when you touch them, these will be feather lice and easily treated with a small caged bird lice/mite spray. I always found that lots of warm water on a paper towel, immediately after eating cleans them up well. Yes, it's much like looking after a new born in many ways, the real difference is that in less than 8 weeks they are at a point it sometimes takes us 20 years to get ours too, LOL.

Karyn


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

*photos of babybird*

here are a couple of photos of babybird. he now pecks his food up, drinks and he is growing and changing everyday. he put on 30grams in 24 hours! 
Anesta


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

well that didn't work. I'll try again!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's cute, but he shouldn't have the missing feathers around his face and head. Think he should be treated for canker. Did you treat him with the Metronidazole? I remember something a bit back in this post about it. Have you looked way down deep in his throat? See if you see any yellow patches or anything. Although you can't always see canker. I would treat him for it.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2010)

your bird looks old enuf to catch on to eating on its own so be patient and keep trying with the pecking at the seeds with your finger method and it will catch on soon enuf Im sure 

p.s. 
I agree this bird should be treated for canker whether it has signs or not at this point as it can only benefit from it


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you wean him onto just peas and corn, 30 to 40 pieces about 3 times a day, only when crop is empty. If you feed him these, and leave some with him, he will soon learn to pick them up himself. They seem to find them easier to pick up then seeds, perhaps because they are soft. He will then move on to seed more easily.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe you could have a vet check him, or bring a sample of his droppings in to be checked.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anesta, yes, a cute little guy, glad you got the photos up.

What's his weight like, do you think you could weigh him on a kitchen scale? Do you think you could also post a few clear, close-up photos of his droppings to post. Since, as you mentioned prior, you can get some Metronidazole to treat for canker, I am in agreement, I think you should do that to be on the safe side, 50mg/kg BID, for 5 days. 

As the others have said, keep working on the weaning, they gave a few more tips, but make sure you continue to supplement him.

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, we can only give you correct dosing instructions, once we know the true weight of the bird. I would personally go with 25 mg. once a day, for a baby, without knowing his weight. The dosage being 4 to 6 days. I have posted a link from the resource section. Bear in mind please, that a kilo is equal to 2.2 pounds. This is just a baby pigeon. I would treat from 4 to 6 days, at 25 mg. once a day.



http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/drug-chart-drawn-up-by-nooti-15947.html


METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl, Torgyl, Stormogyl)

Dose 20-50 mgs per kilo BID or 40-100mgs per kilo OID (Once daily)- 14 days.

In very rare cases, liver damage can be caused by prolonged use over 14 days - but it is very rare and one must balance the risks.
If maintained for 14 days or more it is highly effective against a severe infection of trichomonas gallinae and in preventing an inside recurrence- (not reinfection from an outside source, ie another bird).
Used for anaerobic, (flushing deep wounds), and protozoal infections. Can be given concurrently with Amoxy and Trim Sulphas.


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi everyone, thanks for all the advice. I have started the little bloke on metronidazole. He weighs 230gms; up 40 grams in 2 days. His poo is well formed, brown with a white (not yellow) top. He is feeding well but objects to the baby pap except for first thing in the morning when he takes about 20ccs. His preference is for bird seed rather than the expensive pellets I bought for him. My question now is this. How important is it to make sure his crop is empty before he is fed? after all, his parents would have fed him continuously. I don't like to discourage his pecking as it is a new skill and we don't want to go backwards. Should I leave his seed bowl with him or remove it now and then? Any help much appreciated.
p.s. I think I will book him in to see the avian vet next week (who does see pigeons, unlike many others).
Anesta


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

anesta said:


> I think I will book him in to see the avian vet next week (who does see pigeons, unlike many others).
> Anesta


Hi Anesta,

Glad, to hear, I think this would be a wise thing to do for him.

With the Metronidazole, at the weight you state he should get 12mg twice a day, so about 25mg for the day, as Jay3 mentioned. Thanks for posting his weight, this is an area of concern, as based on the length of his primary flight feathers I would place his age at well past three weeks, he should be about 300 grams at this age, plus the general overall condition of his feathers indicate poor, past nutrition. So please continue with the large meals of hand-feeding formula, as we need to get his weight up a fair amount.

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You could go with the 12 mg twice daily, and that would work. But I find it easier to give the 25 mg. once daily, as you can still give it in pill form, and that is what my vet recommends, and it has worked fine for me. Just preference in how you want to administer it I guess.


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi everyone,
sorry about the absence but have been very busy with babybird. She had her health checkup at the avian vet's yesterday and is doing well. Her weight is up to 270grams and she is feathering up nicely. She has been tested for chlamydia (mainly for boarding purposes) had her poo looked at and swabs from her crop etc etc. She is on antibiotics for some gram negative bacteria in her crop as a result of the wet feed, and also a few yeast cells, but is otherwise in very good condition. She spent most of the visit hanging on the vet's every word, she really seems to like him. She no longer needs the baby formula which is a relief to me as she had taken such a dislike to it that I was speckled with the stuff every morning during our feeding battle. She won. By the way we have decided to call her Cassiopeia (Cassie for short) because she is so vain and is always preening and looking in the mirror. In the eventuality she is a he I guess Cassie will be short for Cassius. We are getting her accustomed to her cage in which she will have to stay while we are at work. Thankfully only 2 days a week. She has lots of bright and colourful toys to peck at and a ledge to sit on which is quite low at the moment and will be raised gradually as she gets older and a second will be added. The cage opens at the top and also the door converts to an outside ledge when it is open. All the bells and whistles so to speak.
I was very pleased with the vet as I was a little apprehensive about Cassie's reception. He was very enthusiastic about pigeons as pets and suggested we get a second one. She will also be able to board there when we are away; he assures me that far from pining as my old Pussycat did, birds, being social creatures usually have a very good time at birdie holiday camp! 
Thanks again for everyone's invaluable help.
Anesta


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Anesta, it sounds like things are going along well with Cassie, I am glad you managed to get her into the vets, who seems like a sympathetic one. 

Please continue to monitor her weight, the gain to 270 grams is a good improvement, but she is still fair amount underweight for her age. At the age she is at, even while learning to feed on her own, her father would still be supplementing her by still continuing to feed her if he was around, so while she may seems like she is eating on her own, its important that real numbers are checked, by weighing her on a scale, to make she she does not loose any ground. 

If you do find she is starting to slip a bit, please continue with the hand feeding formula, you can make say one or two later/late feedings in the day to her, so she wakes with an empty crop and is hungry enough to be motivated to self feed, but knowing you can supplement later to get some more calories into her (I would like to actually see you do late hand feeding, at least until we get her over the 300 gram area).

Please keep us updated of her progress, you are doing great,

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great update. Glad she is doing so well. Nice that you have a good vet, and a place to board her when you need that option. Your doing a good job.


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## anesta (Jun 15, 2010)

hi everyone,
just an update on our (not so) little Cassie. I'm sure she is a he as he is demonstrating very aggressive behaviour. While we were on holiday for 2 weeks, Cassie boarded with the avian vet. The nurses really liked him and have been trying to teach him to behave. with some little success. He now understands "step up" etc. and will fly to me if called. However, he is extremely aggressive and while he will allow my husband to pet him he still bites him occasionally. He will sit on my hand but I can't pet him and he eventually gives in to the temptation to bite me. I tried wearing my riding gloves because my poor hands are pecked to bits and with gloves I can stand him biting without pulling my hand away, hoping he will realise that no amount of biting will work, but he hates the gloves with real passion and starts a sustained and vicious attack. 
He learned to enjoy a daily bath at "birdie holiday camp" but refuses point blank here at home. I have tried different containers and even a bit of tepid water in the bathroom basin. he just scurries up my arm and then bites me for good measure!
He has lots of time outside his cage and has taken over my husbands study where he has his cage (always open) and where he sleeps. he goes in to his cage to eat and drink and also to murder his toys. I can hear him now all alone in my husband's study cooing away to himself. He hates me being in there and flies at me to chase me out. I don't reward him by backing away and only leave when he is calm. But curiously if either of us leaves the room with the door open he flies out to find us, he seems to require our company. 
When he gets too vicious I tell him sternly but not loudly that he is naughty and I put him on the drawbridge of his cage and leave the room, shutting the door. I then go back a little while later and talk to him in a pleasant tone. very repetitive and requires a lot of patience. We are hoping that he will thereby learn what is acceptable and what is not. I suppose aggressive behaviour is normal for a male pigeon but he is barely 5 months old. what will he be like at 5 years? Or do they calm down after the teenage hormone surge? 
The vet nurse advised us to encourage him to fly, not only to build up his strength but to use up some of his "naughty" energy, and by nightfall he is usually pretty tired, as are we. It's a bit like having a small baby... oh the relief when he's put to bed for the night!
Flying training takes place out of the study i.e. not in his territory, although I'm beginning to think he regards everywhere, everything and everyone as his. On vet's advice he is no longer allowed on heads or shoulders; we raise a hand for him to land on when he flies to us. 
Now the weather is warmer we have been taking his cage outside so he can enjoy fresh air and different surroundings. yesterday some wild pigeons came to have a look. I think he enjoyed that as he liked the company of the other birds, mostly parrots, at "birdie camp". He is very curious about everything and seems quite intelligent.
Anyway we will continue to persevere but any tips on behaviour modification would be really appreciated.
Anesta


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