# Hormonal pet female...now what?



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

The pigeon we rescued from the animal shelter in December, Fiona, is trying to nest and is wing flicking and vocalizing a lot. She also has been pooping large wet copious amounts of poop. She seems to be eating ok and is bright eyed and energetic. We have never held or petted her because our other rescued female, Phoebe, who lives in an aviary in another part of the house, had reproductive problems partly because she saw us as her mates, because we petted her, per the avian vet. Until now, Fiona would try to bite me. Now she is overly friendly. We do not want babies but want her to be a happy healthy female. We are worried she will lay eggs, which nearly killed Phoebe. Do people ever get pet pigeons fixed or is this even possible? Do we need to get her a hormone implant? I try to give her lavish attention but do not want to encourage horny bird behavior. We don't want her to be lonely but don't want more pigeons than we can handle. Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Its ok, my girls do that all the time, they are happy, they even demand my fingers in their mouth as if to ask for feeding as a mate does, they eve shake and vibrate their mouths when I feed peanuts one at a time. Mine have never laid eggs. Also I never give them any nest boxes or places to find like that. Just make triple sure they have all the minerals and calcium they want and need. You should not have any problems but if she DOES lay eggs, just let her set on them as long as she wants so as not to run into any egg binding problems. And yes I believe you can do both, hormones (which I would not do, AND surgery to cut duct which I would not risk) Just allow her to be broody and take no notice of it. I had one of the new males do exactly as you described today, so what, I just moved his cage facing outside and he soon got distracted lol.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks, CBL! Will make sure she has vitamins, minerals, and calcium. She bit me again this morning when I fed her so I guess the honeymoon is over. Didn't realize that male pigeons also wing tip. Oh oh, maybe it is a male? Fiona is definitely eating although her poop went from normal looking to wet puddles. Will keep an eye on her but won't panic if all she is doing is acting broody. I just don't want her to get egg bound or sick and I don't want her to be unhappy or lonely. She is a lovely bird and a real sweetie when she isn't biting. She doesn't put her beak between my fingers or try to beak my mouth like Phoebe does though!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

The unthinkable has happened! Fiona laid an egg while I was at work today. She is still trying to bite me and eating so I think she is OK. She is sitting on the egg so I'll just leave her alone. She has no mate so of course it wont hatch but I won't tell her. Should I get a wooden egg or just wait until she gets tired of sitting on it? I'm new to this egg thing. Phoebe, our other female who lives in a large aviary in the other part of the house, is finally flapping a little bit after a lot of gentle exercise for the past two plus months. (She has heart problems and is eight years old at least.) So I guess I should count my blessings that for now both birds are OK. I just worry so after all Phoebe went through with her reproductive issues several years ago. Fiona is fat and happy. I will give her minerals, vitamins, and calcium. Any other suggestions? Thanks!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hhahah deal with it grandma, Lol too funny, ya leave her be till she lays the second because she WILL hahah. They come in pairs. You can certainly leave the eggs there. This allows her to do her thing and not continually lay and become depleted. Yup just put all food and water close by for her so it is convenient for her to eat, we dont want her starving herself by setting all day. Also would not hurt for you to manually pick her up 3 times a day and place her on the floor to poop then allow her back to her nest of eggs. That way she doesnt get bunged up.

Dont forget her natural regular shift is at night only so the male would be sitting during the day. So if she is sitting day and night, then she is not pooping or stretching or moving enough. Dont be afraid to interfere a bit. Nothing is ever cut and dried.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

CBL, will do as you suggest. No sign of a second egg. I don't want Fiona to get egg bound as the avian vet is 3 hours plus away. Especially I worry because Phoebe had to have surgery and hormone implants for years after that to prevent reproduction. How do pigeons manage to survive in the wild without human intervention?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

You are such a good bird owner. Let us know when she lays the second egg. Thats great, if her eggs are good then that is a sign of health, unlike the soft eggs that NareJ's bird is laying that is a disaster. I hope he works it out for her. Just give her all the grit and calcium she wants all should be good. "They" say that birds get sick much more from mineral deficiency than vitamins.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Will make sure she gets lots of grit and calcium. No second egg yet. Other other girl, Phoebe, had a retained second egg and it nearly killed her because she had soft yellow fluid building up inside her. When the avian surgeon opened her up, it turned out she had internal fat deposits or xanthomatosis and he had to remove all the stuff from her organs, kind of like cotton candy stuck everywhere. It is a benign tumor like condition. If she tries to reproduce it will kill her so we have gotten her implants and carefully controlled what we do to prevent more egg laying. So I cringe whenever a female is hormonal. Pigeons certainly are driven to reproduce, but so much can go wrong. I hope Fiona is problem free. We suspected she was a female due to her feminine appearance and manners but she has removed all doubt now.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona is still sitting most of the time on her one egg. No sign of a second egg. She is eating and drinking well and eating grit. Should I be concerned if she doesn't lay a second one? Plus it is very sad that it is not going to hatch. Do lone females grieve if they don't hatch or do they just abandon them and move on? Thanks. She is such a lovely bird. She still bites me and just isn't a people bird like Phoebe although she seems to like us. We will treasure them both for who they are.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No I dont believe they grieve, they do just abandon and move on. Let her enjoy her egg lol. Not sure that she will lay a second but sometimes it takes 2 or 3 days to do so.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Just got home from several hours of errands including getting fresh calcium and minerals, and now Fiona has twin eggs! She immediately bit me when I fed her and sprinkled the minerals on her food. I put an extra water and food dish near her. Room service is pretty good. She ate a lot and looks so proud. CBL, you were right about the second egg! Phoebe is still acting a tiny bit hormonal but we take turns getting her out of the cage and try to reduce her photoperiod. We also rearrange her toys and only let her eat twice per day for 20 minutes and then remove her food. We don't pet her and if she really acts like she wants to mate with me, I put her down on the floor so she will run around a lot. it would be bad for her to lay an egg. Thank you for reassuring me about Fiona. It is great when the pigeon plumbing works right!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol that is hilarious, Im glad she dropped the second egg. They are so good, devoted parents. Good that she is biting you, if she is full of piss and vinegar then u know she is healthy lol.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hey when u say "reduce her photoperiod" are u meaning less lighting for her? If so be careful, u can throw her into a forced moult which is hard on them. Clarify what u mean by that. .


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

The avian vet told us to make sure we cover her and not play with her when it gets dark outside. So by reducing her photoperiod I just mean making sure she goes to sleep when it gets dark and not letting her have long days of artificial light, like we have. I get up at 4 am and thanks to electricity, stay up all hours watching tv and playing with an iPad instead of following a normal sleep cycle, of getting up at dawn and going to bed before the sun goes down. We don't take away her light and make her sit in the dark during the daytime. Her cage is next to a bright window but we try to let her have the daylight hours a wild bird would have, then lots of rest when it gets dark outside. The vet said this is critical for her especially as the days get longer.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok so you are not adjusting wild bird sunup and sundown, u are just giving her the normal day length and protecting her for your odd hours  Excellent, that is what Krzys is now doing for Juboo as she was getting crazy long hours of exactly what you said.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona has begun vocalizing to me again as if flirting. Her poop is big piles of loose greenish stuff again like it was just before she laid her two eggs, to which she seems to be devoting less attention now. I hope she is not gearing up to lay more. I haven't touched her two beautiful nonfertile eggs. I am still giving her calcium, vitamins, grit, and food ad lib. Should I remove her food after she eats like I do with Phoebe? I put a parakeet toy in too so she isn't too comfortable. Any suggestions? Ithanks! I don't want her to keep laying and laying eggs which will exhaust her. She is a lovely bird.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Cweb, can u send us pic of poop, and if u are worried she is gonna lay again which would be insane, then u are gonna have to remove all stimuli which is any fluffy toys, no nest box or bowl or material. Just bare bones cage for bed at night and don't even allow her in any cage during the day. Put her into a larger or different area, also u can move her cage from room to room so she is otherwise engaged and looking at different surroundings, keep her mind off laying. Can We see your set up?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

She's sleeping right now. Will send photos of her poop tomorrow and will try to take her mind off laying. There is just newspaper on the floor of her cage. May also try removing her food after 15 or 20 minutes rather than leaving it there all day.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona is awake and vocalizing. She ate a hearty breakfast and no longer seems to be paying attention to her eggs. Her poop looks a little better today but will try to get my significant other to take photos when he gets up as he gets to sleep in while mom feeds the critters. There is nothing but papers in her cage bottom. Cage is over 5 feet long so it would be hard to move it around. I have not taken her out of the cage since we got her as we have four cats but I moved her toys and dishes around to make things different. I may also pull her food so she only eats for a few minutes twice a day like we do with Phoebe.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I sent u a pm.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Oh no, Fiona has laid another egg! It has been about two months since she laid the last two. Her poop got runny and she started wing flicking the past two days. She has been getting pigeon mix, calcium, vitamins and lots of grit since the last time she laid eggs. So far only one egg and I am worried because our other pigeon, Phoebe, had reproductive problems. The two girls live in different parts of the house. Will try not to panic as last time it took Fiona two days to lay the second egg. Wish she would stop all the hormonal reproductive behavior though! Pigeons sure are driven to breed.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It can take 24 - 48 hours to lay a second egg.

If a pigeon has reproductive problems which cause post-egg laying temporary paralysis, or get an infection due to problems passing an egg at all, they can be inhibited from laying with an implant. Two of our hens, who cannot cope with 'egging' have them. They are not cheap (here), but are called Supralorin. Our vet tried it as it works for poultry. I believe originally it was developed for canines. Anyway, it works for our pigeons though it's not 100% guaranteed to work 'off label'. Implants needed every 6 months or so.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

John D, thanks. Will monitor Fiona to make sure if she has a second egg that she lays it. Our other female, Phoebe, has had two deslorelin implants and we are considering another. She had terrible problems a few years ago.


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## BGs Babies (Jul 6, 2015)

I have a female pij, she has full run of the house and eats as she pleases. I have other birds so there is always seed somewhere. She comes to us when she wants a drink or attention. She isn't a year old yet, but she is already showing signs of going back to nest, third time. going to talk to vet about the supralorin implant. Any other ideas?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Phoebe had three deslorelin implants. They work but are expensive. Behavioral controls help such as making sure you cover the bird at night, moving cage items around, removing food after 10 minutes so they don't think food is abundant, and never petting the pigeon below the neck so they don't see you as a mate.


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## BGs Babies (Jul 6, 2015)

*Hormonal Pet Pij*

She is free flighted so covering her isn't really possible. Will restrict eating and have calcium and vitamins in her water. I don't stroke her back, and have told my husband not to,lol, but she does like to have her neck scratched. She comes to either of us and snuggles up to our necks and we scratch her. 

Should we let her sit on her eggs the whole time? I know if I take eggs away from my canaries, they will start laying again.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would definitely let her sit on her eggs so she doesn't make more which would stress her. Am starting to wonder about pigeons strong drive to reproduce as Fiona just laid another egg!!! We have been trying really hard to not encourage this but she had her own agenda.


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## BGs Babies (Jul 6, 2015)

*Hormonal Pet Pij*

They do have their own agenda for sure! lol Thanks for the advice. Will do the best we can.


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