# I'm Brand New To The Hobby...



## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Hello. I'm Edward, from Northern California. I am brand new to the hobby,and have been reading a lot and watching videos for the past...2 months??
I have decided to build a simple 4x8 loft, and start with 2 pairs of pigeons. 1 pair of Janssen,to get away from hawks,to race,and because i think they're pretty. And 1 pair of West of England Tumblers...because it has been my research that says every fancier should have at least 1 or 2 pairs of fancy birds..just so you can remember why you became a pigeon fancier in the first place.
My question is... ANY advice? I know the two breeds shouldn't really mix...but i thought that their monogamy would stop any...unwanted mix breeding..also..after long thought i realized that culling is inevitable sometimes...and i will do what i must. I am going to breed these birds,both breeds, for Performance(yes i want my woEs to FLY!), Looks,health and overall..personality. I don't want a lot of pigeons. I want quality above quantity 100% of the time even if that means i only breed them twice a year.
So any advice(besides love them and use common sense)?


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I would stick to one breed at first.....simpler that way and you don't have to worry about cross-breeding. If you get homers you will either need to get adults and keep them confined (possibly for life) or get youngsters which you may not be able to sex. I you want something to fly around the house ou could do the Wests, which are beautiful. There are a few people that still raise the old-fashioned flying type wests but they can be hard to find. Another idea are Russian Tumblers which are very fancy (muffs and crest) but still fly a little (not long) and do an occasional flip. If hawk are a problem Flying Oriental Rollers may work for you (may still have to start out with young birds). Check out Alan Bliven's website and elarn more about the F.O.R.s. Whatever you decide good luck......it is a fun and rewarding hobby and keep posting here too!


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Don't get in trouble with your neighbours. Some people don't like pigeons and depending on your situation you may have to be very strick on teaching your birds where they are allowed to land and when you want them to trap in. Racers and WOE are both great breeds to learn with. Smart birds and not too scatty.


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## GrizzleMan (Jan 17, 2013)

Keeping a small amount of pigeons is key...... The more birds will increase waste, food, water, space, Dust is the big one for me.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Welcome to the hobby, and to Pigeon Talk. You have already gotten some very good advice. When buying your initial pairs, you should try to get bonded pairs. This will help keep down any unwanted breeding/cross mating. Also, buy some fake eggs to replace the real ones until you are ready to expand your flock.

Good luck and enjoy!!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Thank you Woodnative that was very helpful. The first pigeons I really liked were the woEs that I saw on a craigslist ad. A red and white one cock and a white and speckledbrown hen. I already drove and saw the birds he has, and reserved the two. But he offered a pair of Homers also, and I wouldnt mind a couple of homing racers flying about..for fun
Thepigeonkey thank you I have been worried about that. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of wires.and adjacent to me my neighbor has these VERY tall trees..nobody will mind the pigeons around here..it is them perchong on the wires or flying into them.thats why Id prefer to avoid rollers... but the pigeons are smart so ill just have to note which ones never even touch a wire...
GrizzleMan you're right. I want to avoid a large stock. Overall i wouldnt want more than my loft can handle.. I have two options I can build a 4x8 which is faster,inexpensive and easier to maintain but a very selective stock(i will have to cull..a lot...and itll break my heart everytime...and i WILL do it. :-()..or to buy a 10x10 chain link kennel and work with that for about the same amount(building plywood around the chainlink with hardware cloth)..but then again I dont want too many birds..and that size is too much for me. A 4x8 would give me room for about..10 birds. So I would HAVE to cull..a lot. I hate that aspect of it..but I guess with anything you love it comes with the territory. :*-(


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Almondman thank you I am glad to be here. FAKE EGGS! Lol. Duh.. with a small amouny og bords that wouldnt be a problem keeping up with them. I just didnt want to.. "fool with my lil' pals heads"..but its way better than culling.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Fake eggs! That way you can control the population and won't have to cull. Also avoid crossbreeding (mutts). WOE are beautiful and congrats on the pair. Are the homers adults? ARe they quality? Why is he getting rid of them. IMHO I would decline the homers, get another pair of wests (maybe unrelated to the first) to give you a bit of genetic diversity and go from there. JUST my opinion.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

He is getting rid of the woEs really to make room for the racing homers he purchased. The homer pair are about 2 years old and are the older breeding pair he has. They do look quite magnificent. The two woE I reserved arent a mated pair. The hen and her mate look too alike I think they are related somehow. And the cock is a mac and goes between two mates,A bluebar woE and a splashed german roller whos mate was killed by a hawk. And then he has a brown cock and a black female. And the offspring pf some pairs All woEs. Id hate to split them up but I wanted to breed for a look that I fancy. And I didnt quite fancy the offspring of the speckled hen and her mate. Not the bird but the look. I figured that in hens grief of her being taken from her mate and the red cocks grief mixed with his dominance and the sight of the homer couple together might force pair them. Misery loves company as they say. I wont make any mutts. But I want the homer and woE pair to be the roots of my stock.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

here are pictures of the two birds i bought


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Welcome to PT.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*The Other WoEs*

I know the Hen isn't a pure WoE because of the crest on her head,but i really like her for her personality. here is the pic of the pure WoE Hen that he has...










Also My red WoE with his "girlfriend". The Hen above is his mate.










Also,the Mixed WoE Hen with her Mate.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Nice birds I see all sorts of genes that would be fun to breed. Almond, grizzle, crest, baldhead and more.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I responded in your other thread........the almond bird with crest and feathered feet looks like pure Russian Tumbler and a great looking bird! Some of the others look like pure WOE. I dont' know what that one bird is with crest but no feathered feet. If possible, get birds the same breed....at least for your pairs. While mixed breed pigeons are pretty and nice....they will have no value..........you will never be able to show them (if you want to show) and nobody will want to buy/take them from you......so you will be stuck with a lot of mutts. A purebred will take up just as much loft space and food and time but will have more value if you wish to sell/trade offspring. Both WOE and Russian Tumblers are great breeds......try to get matching mates!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> I responded in your other thread........the almond bird with crest and feathered feet looks like pure Russian Tumbler and a great looking bird! Some of the others look like pure WOE. I dont' know what that one bird is with crest but no feathered feet. If possible, get birds the same breed....at least for your pairs. While mixed breed pigeons are pretty and nice....they will have no value..........you will never be able to show them (if you want to show) and nobody will want to buy/take them from you......so you will be stuck with a lot of mutts. A purebred will take up just as much loft space and food and time but will have more value if you wish to sell/trade offspring. Both WOE and Russian Tumblers are great breeds......try to get matching mates!


Thank you for the great advice. I dont know where to get another russian tumbler tho, and im not giving her up cause I cant find a mate. She is paired up with the grizzle WoE already. The muffless crested hen is a german tumbler I think. Thats what the breeder told me at least. Maybe I could pair the red WoE with the bluecheck baldhead WoE since they are already mates. And keep the russian tumbler until I locate a proper mate for her...youre right I dont want any mutts...lol im pretty sure thats why hes getting rid of them..too many mutts plus he is leaving fancy birds for homers... maybe if I can find her a decent mate you might want one of her babies woodnative? Im taking good advice and will get matching pairs, ill be very selective and only breed quality
So it may take a while but I can make it happen if your passion for the breed is still there. One fancy pet couldnt hurt right?


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Do you already have the birds? Is your loft done? So do you have 3 birds.....two WOE adn the RT? I would pair the two WOE then, and get a mate for the RT later. She is nice looking and I think would make nice RT babies. Does he have any RT males? If not you could get one later on. You could always save up and have one mailed to you in the future. Nice looking birds! Enjoy them!!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> Do you already have the birds? Is your loft done? So do you have 3 birds.....two WOE adn the RT? I would pair the two WOE then, and get a mate for the RT later. She is nice looking and I think would make nice RT babies. Does he have any RT males? If not you could get one later on. You could always save up and have one mailed to you in the future. Nice looking birds! Enjoy them!!


My loft hasnt even begun construction yet. Ill start after superbowl(GO 49ERS!!!) And post up pics of my progress on thia thread. As for the birds being mine, they are not in my possession obviously, but are already paid for and viewed in person and on reserve until my loft os complete. My breeder is a very patient person and I thank him for that. As for the amount, its 4 birds. 3 WoE and one RT. The RT is already paired with the grizzled WoE in the picture, so I will take him along so 1: she wont die from the stress of being ripped from her mate and having forced to be alone next to a mated pair and 2: so I can breed the grizzled male with the offspring of the WoE mated pair. Ill just cull the RT and WoEs eggs and replace them with fake onea until I get her a proper mate. And the other 2 WoEs will be an already mated pair, the red baldhead cock and the bluecheck baldhead hen... 
I think I made a pretty wise decision thanks to yours and everyone elses help and advice. Thank You!!


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I see. Nice birds you are getting and good choice!! I hope you can get a mate sometime in the future for the RT............only because I am biased and think she is really nice, LOL! I like WOE a lot too though I don't have any personal experience with them. They are sharp looking and colorful.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> I see. Nice birds you are getting and good choice!! I hope you can get a mate sometime in the future for the RT............only because I am biased and think she is really nice, LOL! I like WOE a lot too though I don't have any personal experience with them. They are sharp looking and colorful.


THANKS!!! LOL trust me I understand. When I saw her I HAD to have her.. LOL even my girlfriend loves her and shes one those jumpy around bird types! Lol its a sign but I will definitely get her a good RT mate. Maybe from a member of the club you suggested? but WHEN I do I will be sure to post pics of them and their young. And again, the offer for one of her offspring is always on the table for you if you promise me it will loved and looked after properly, I will give it to you. The first pigeons I kinda fell for were WoEs, and you talk about RTs the way I talk about WoEs...so I know you will have a special place for it.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Not only is it a Russian tumbler but its almond too. I can see why you like it Chris. It would make a good cross to a woe. Hybrids often make good flyers.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Nice looking birds. As stated, many opportunities for breeding. As pictured, I am a little biased towards the almonds.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Thank you everyone. Im really looking forward to getting started! Ill keep updating this with my progress when I can. Im so excited


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

Are you near Edwards Air Force Base?

That would be southern almost central CA.


Well, doesn't really matter.... if you are still looking for a few good birds with racing backgrounds I have some you can have.

Just send me an email and we can arrnage for you to come see them and pick them up.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

teocallipittz said:


> Are you near Edwards Air Force Base?
> 
> That would be southern almost central CA.
> 
> ...


Sorry im in NorCal Bay Area. Vallejo, CA, a lot closer to Travis AFB. And thank you very much..but I think that the West of England and Russian Tumblers have my heart at the moment(nobody tell my girlfriend I said that!)


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

Kool, good luck... your selected breed are very beautiful birds


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

teocallipittz said:


> Kool, good luck... your selected breed are very beautiful birds


Thank you teocallipittz!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Coop*

Picture of my 5'Long x 4' High x 2' Long coop. It will do for now,will have to add a trap door and perches and nesting boxes inside. Will have to build an aviary out of the scrap wood and chicken wire i found. Nice beginner set up. Will do for now. I figured 5x4 is 20 with about...2sq.Foot per bird should be about...8-10 birds comfortably. starting off with 3-4 should work out ok.


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## franciscreek (Oct 21, 2010)

There are a few RT breeders in the Sac/Roseville area. When you are ready for more, attend a nor-cal club meeting and you should be able to make some good contacts.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

franciscreek said:


> There are a few RT breeders in the Sac/Roseville area. When you are ready for more, attend a nor-cal club meeting and you should be able to make some good contacts.


Thanks franciscreek. Any idea when the next one will be?


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## franciscreek (Oct 21, 2010)

the meetings are posted on the nor cal pigeon fanciers site


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

franciscreek said:


> the meetings are posted on the nor cal pigeon fanciers site


Thanks bro


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Just saw your coop. Should be a nice size esp. with an added flypen for them to go outside. You probably already know, but a reminder to use strong hardware cloth for your flypen so critters can not get in or through!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Woodnative said:


> Just saw your coop. Should be a nice size esp. with an added flypen for them to go outside. *You probably already know, but a reminder to use strong hardware cloth for your flypen so critters can not get in or through*!


YES! NO Chicken Wire! Chicken wire is only used to keep chickens 'in', Not predators 'out'!


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Chicken wire is not a good choice.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Noted. Hardware cloth Not chicken wire.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Just brought my new pigeon coop home. Darn near threw my back out trying to get it up ob the deck. Needless to say its still on the lawn. Gotta have some reinforcements come by and help move it up there. Just waiting on my order from GP to arrive so I can disasemble the front and throughly clean it. Then add my perches and nest boxes.its very n nice actually, ill take pics tomorrow when the sun is up. Until then, IM takin two tylenol and a nap. G'night people


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Awesome! You are one step closer to having your birds there!!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=2404

There is the link to my Loft Album.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Looks well-built, sturdy, and secure! With some added perches and a flypen it will be perfect!! How did you find this?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

I was looking at my local feed store for pigeon stuff. And it was in the front at a steal. I have a 4x4x3 flypen im suppose to pick up today. The coop was very well priced and it is very well built. I can have at least 3 or 4 breeding areas and at least 4 single nest boxes. And at least 5 perches. Paired with the perch that goes across the bottom, a trap box on the left side and maybe the flypen attatched to the front or I can use it as a seperate area fir breeding. Updates to come


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> Picture of my 5'Long x 4' High x 2' Long coop. It will do for now,will have to add a trap door and perches and nesting boxes inside. Will have to build an aviary out of the scrap wood and chicken wire i found. Nice beginner set up. Will do for now. I figured 5x4 is 20 with about...2sq.Foot per bird should be about...8-10 birds comfortably. starting off with 3-4 should work out ok.


you would of done 5x2=10 divide by 2, 5 birds max in that space. they also need more ventilation IMO, the aviairy or flight pen is going to be must with this hutch type loft or kit box which it looks like.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Do you think I should cut open the front and add screen? The ventilation is fine the floor is removable with screen underneath. 5 birds max? Hmmmmm...upsets my whole plan..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> Do you think I should cut open the front and add screen? The ventilation is fine the floor is removable with screen underneath. 5 birds max? Hmmmmm...upsets my whole plan..


I think you need to add a flight pen around it so the birds can get out of there when they want. try to imagine more than 5 grown WOE type birds in there trying to nest and mate, I have one section in my loft that is 4x8 and 9 birds fill that space well from physically looking at it..so IMO any more than 5 birds in that hutch will be crowded, problems can come in that senerio. I think you are rushing things by buying birds first and then rushing to get them a loft.. you may of done better to take you're time getting a loft straight, just a small loft, and then shopping for supplies and feed...then last get you're birds.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> I think you need to add a flight pen around it so the birds can get out of there when they want. try to imagine more than 5 grown WOE type birds in there trying to nest and mate, I have one section in my loft that is 4x8 and 9 birds fill that space well from physically looking at it..so IMO any more than 5 birds in that hutch will be crowded, problems can come in that senerio. I think you are rushing things by buying birds first and then rushing to get them a loft.. you may of done better to take you're time getting a loft straight, just a small loft, and then shopping for supplies and feed...then last get you're birds.


Then maybe starting with one pair of just WoEs or homers is what I need to do. I dont want a lot of birds. I have a flypen lined up im going to attach. But I was asking if you think itd be a good idea to open up the front with a screen because its already quite ventilated. I dont want anything big and honestly cant build nothing this good myself. Im cool with a small family of 5 woes or 6 homers. Wont be able to get any russian tumblers or anything. But its my decision and this is what I have now. So I gotta work with what I have. So actually my only big decision is pick a breesd plus itll be easier to join a bay area club with homers.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> Then maybe starting with one pair of just WoEs or homers is what I need to do. I dont want a lot of birds. I have a flypen lined up im going to attach. But I was asking if you think itd be a good idea to open up the front with a screen because its already quite ventilated. I dont want anything big and honestly cant build nothing this good myself. Im cool with a small family of 5 woes or 6 homers. Wont be able to get any russian tumblers or anything. But its my decision and this is what I have now. So I gotta work with what I have. So actually my only big decision is pick a breesd plus itll be easier to join a bay area club with homers.


well, it depends on how hot it gets there where you live.. or cool.. the birds need a loft with some light and air..not a dark box, you may beable to just make some of the "windows out"(trap door) bigger as a door out to the fly pen. and that would open if up enough.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> well, it depends on how hot it gets there where you live.. or cool.. the birds need a loft with some light and air..not a dark box, you may beable to just make some of the "windows out"(trap door) bigger as a door out to the fly pen. and that would open if up enough.


Its california weather so its kinda..very nice. A lot. And the front door has those 6 holes that bring in the sun and air, as well as the top vents. I can just attatch the flypen to the front and cut open a nice viewing window. The sun shines nice over here. I. Just saying its facing south and im by water so sometime those southwinds and rains are killer and I dont want them exposed like that. If they need light ill cut open a window and ill add a flypen by it.

I think im gonna get the russian tumbler hen with the rec red woe. If I can only have so few ill get ones I want. Or a pair of homers.
Any suggestions? Dont want to dispute breeds just what is easier. I know how some people feel about mix breeda but I think the two tumblers would have nice babies.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

If your not showing or racing you could get the WOE and RT, breed them together and then decide what breed you want to breed towards. WOE or RT. They look similar anyway. I like the crests.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

With a flight pen you could keep 8 birds in there easy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

More than 5 would be a bit crowded. It's the dimensions of the loft or coop, with or without a flight pen. Crowding isn't healthy for the birds. They will get more stressed, and stress causes illness. Then too, if you breed any, it'll be more crowded.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't count aviaries or flights as living space.. but some may..


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Im going to add a 4x4x3 aviary on the front. That way on nice days ill open the trap and use the aviary for baths and sunbathing. Im gettin the RT and WoE and a homer pair. All you have to do is keep putting the dummy eggs. More than 6 is overcrowded
.you may disagree but I can say that because ive actually looked at it in person, regardless of mathematical dimensions. Basically im allowed 2 offspring every year and then ill sell them. The homers should be easy to sell.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> More than 5 would be a bit crowded. It's the dimensions of the loft or coop, with or without a flight pen. Crowding isn't healthy for the birds. They will get more stressed, and stress causes illness. Then too, if you breed any, it'll be more crowded.


This double loft (azcorbans loft) holds 42 birds (21 per side) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14N2NfHCvM
I don't think its all down to dimentions. I think about the design purches, floor, flightpen, how much they fly outside the loft and how often you clean it.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

I think ill be just fine starting with 4birds. Basically I have the birds I want anyway, and if I want to try breeding them I can. The aviary attatched is a very nice idea. Im sick atm in bed with a 101.5 temp....soo once I get better I can start fixing it up...


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeap, if birds are free flown and have access to a flight pen aswell as dry floors, good venting and a good cleanliness regime then you can get away with having the birds in an envorinment less spacious than those that don't free fly their birds. Birds that are not free flown are not living a natural life so you need to really look at factors which create the best possible quality of life a caged bird can have, Personally I love pigeons because I provide them with what they need and they choose to live here, being given complete freedom at the same time.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Oh ill be free flying them after about a month of captivity...and the flightpen might not be directly attatched to the coop, but I will have one to put them in to bathe and so I can clean the loft. With the small amount of pigeons I have having an independent flightpen for such purposes is ok.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Why not attach it to the kit and have access so you can let them sit out in the sun at their leisure, A crate to put them in while cleaning is a lot different to a flight pen or sunpen.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Because im racking my brain on how to get a 4x4x3 flight pen onto the front with only about 3 feet available room to attatch it to. Not everyone can build for their birds. Believe it or not some pigeon fanciers have to buy lofts and aviaries. I will try my best because it is a worthy project to have them in the flight pen.just trying to wprk out dimensions thata all...loft construction is very precise and mathematical....and I suck at math...and the flightpen im talking of is far from a 'crate'


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

kingdizon said:


> Because im racking my brain on how to get a 4x4x3 flight pen onto the front with only about 3 feet available room to attatch it to. Not everyone can build for their birds. Believe it or not some pigeon fanciers have to buy lofts and aviaries. I will try my best because it is a worthy project to have them in the flight pen.just trying to wprk out dimensions thata all...loft construction is very precise and mathematical....and I suck at math...and the flightpen im talking of is far from a 'crate'


I get it, you have to work with what you can but even if the flightpen or sunpen is 1ft high 1ft out and 2ft long it is better than nothing.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I get it, you have to work with what you can but even if the flightpen or sunpen is 1ft high 1ft out and 2ft long it is better than nothing.


Exactly, the same way I felt about a seperate flightpen, better than nothing. But an attatched flypen would be best...its just hard to have to start cuttong into a coop already so beautifully made...plus its a matter of getting access to open that lil trap door at the bottom right of the coop with a big ol flightpen attatched...ill figure something out. I know my grandmother would love to sit outside and watch them in the flight pen...so I will have to make due and figure out a way....


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The only issue I have with a seperate crate or cage is that the birds do not feel as relaxed in it as they would an attached cage, Work with what you can man but try do stuff as good as possible the first time round.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> The only issue I have with a seperate crate or cage is that the birds do not feel as relaxed in it as they would an attached cage, Work with what you can man but try do stuff as good as possible the first time round.


Right on! Been saying that this whole time..gotta get it right...I just have to remember not to stress out about perfection. I can do what I can youknow? Ill keep yall updated...let me pick up the flightpen first to see what im working with. Because right now all I have to do is add perches, nestboxes, and clean the coop. Adding the bobtrap and the flightpen is necessaru but Can come later, since they will be prisoners for about a month...though the flypen would make their prison time more..relaxing


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

kingdizon said:


> Because im racking my brain on how to get a 4x4x3 flight pen onto the front with only about 3 feet available room to attatch it to. Not everyone can build for their birds. Believe it or not some pigeon fanciers have to buy lofts and aviaries. I will try my best because it is a worthy project to have them in the flight pen.just trying to wprk out dimensions thata all...loft construction is very precise and mathematical....and I suck at math...and the flightpen im talking of is far from a 'crate'


Oh, come on, you can do it! I have zippo building experience and I suck at math also  But I built all 3 of my flight cages that are attached to my lofts. It takes me a little longer, but I figure it out  If you look at my webpage (below 'cottage on the seacoast'), I have pictures of the process of both lofts. Right now I trying to figure out how I can add on to my homer/tumbler loft for my next summer project!
When you pick up the flight pen, post a picture of them side by side, and we'll figure it out


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Msfreebird said:


> Oh, come on, you can do it! I have zippo building experience and I suck at math also  But I built all 3 of my flight cages that are attached to my lofts. It takes me a little longer, but I figure it out  If you look at my webpage (below 'cottage on the seacoast'), I have pictures of the process of both lofts. Right now I trying to figure out how I can add on to my homer/tumbler loft for my next summer project!
> When you pick up the flight pen, post a picture of them side by side, and we'll figure it out


Right on thank you thats a big help.im feeling a bit better today but I still have a fever when I get better ill go pick it up and let you know


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Got any pics of the birds in the loft yet. They may start trying to breed when they move in if the weather is as good as you say. You'll be able to train the babies to fly. Will you let the adults out after a couple of months? I wouldnt let them out for a year and even then you may loose em. I had a racer come home over a year after I sold him.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice weather? It is below zero and my frillbacks keep laying eggs, LOL! They don't know they are supposed to slow down in winter!!! I am not sure why. The ferals under the bridge near my work have stopped breeding for the winter though and will start up in Spring. I wonder if they are more "in tune" to theie surroundings, genetically "programmed" to stop in winter, or if it is nutrition related. Anyway....getting off topic. Kingkizon can't wait to see photos of your birds in your loft!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Woodnative said:


> Nice weather? It is below zero and my frillbacks keep laying eggs, LOL! They don't know they are supposed to slow down in winter!!! I am not sure why. The ferals under the bridge near my work have stopped breeding for the winter though and will start up in Spring. I wonder if they are more "in tune" to theie surroundings, genetically "programmed" to stop in winter, or if it is nutrition related. Anyway....getting off topic. Kingkizon can't wait to see photos of your birds in your loft!


LOL.....My birds don't stop either! Why do they keep laying?..........Because their spoiled rotten!!


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

They are worth spoiling.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Woodnative said:


> Nice weather? It is below zero and my frillbacks keep laying eggs, LOL! They don't know they are supposed to slow down in winter!!! I am not sure why. The ferals under the bridge near my work have stopped breeding for the winter though and will start up in Spring. I wonder if they are more "in tune" to theie surroundings, genetically "programmed" to stop in winter, or if it is nutrition related. Anyway....getting off topic. Kingkizon can't wait to see photos of your birds in your loft!


domestic pigeons that have food and lights in the loft will breed all year. most times though they do slow down. the length of sunlight during the day is what gets them stimulated, we passed the winter solstice in Dec, so days are getting longer and have seen a step up in mating with my birds and the ones I take care of at Colonial Williamsburg.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Hey all, keeping you updated. I caught a bad flu last week and am just now getting better. Been missing work so needless to say I havent even been able to touch the loft to fix it up for the pigeons. Now that im getting better ill start workin on it. Also I might be getting a 5x10 chain link fence for their flypen. Ill let you know.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Got my loft all set up now. Just have to wait for the weekend to pick up my pigeons. Haha so excited. Ill post pictures of them in the coop soon.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

kingdizon said:


> Got my loft all set up now. Just have to wait for the weekend to pick up my pigeons. Haha so excited. Ill post pictures of them in the coop soon.


Nice, Can't wait to see pics.

ON the subject of birds breeding all year round, They sure do in loft situations, Most breeders seperate their birds in the off season, I do not but I put them on a different feeding regime, remove nesting materials around moulting time and they slow down, It changes from swapping eggs every day to maybe one or two rounds a week spread across all the birds, (150 odd) so they will most definitely still lay if kept as well as all our birds get kept but its nice to see them slow down and take a break if at all possible. I do use fakes in the winter but in the summer not so much as there is always something to be fostered somewhere.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Congrats! Must be feeling better, that's good too. As mentioned, pics please!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

almondman said:


> Congrats! Must be feeling better, that's good too. As mentioned, pics please!


Feeling a whole lot better thanks! Pics will be coming soon!

Heres what the inside looks like without the birds


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Cool, so you hope to get a pair of racers, one WOE and one RT?
Your gonna have so much fun.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Cool, so you hope to get a pair of racers, one WOE and one RT?
> Your gonna have so much fun.


I hope so. Really looking forward to it. Yup. 4.birds.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

picked up this pigeon feed from a local pet supply store. opened it up and added a 5lb bag of hemp seed to the mix..


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

**

I bought my first pigeon today,a beautiful Blue Bar Hen with a white splash on her head and white wing tips... I had her only an hour and a half when i got her home i was showing my grandparents and girlfriend her and all of a sudden two wing flaps and she was gone. I hope she heads back to her loft safely so i can pick her back up. Poor girl im very worried about her.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Opps! Was it a racer?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Opps! Was it a racer?


yea,big Opps.
Her dad was a fairly good racer. Her mother on the other hand reminds me of those heavyset old grandmother types... I informed the woman i bought her from. She told me she had never trained her before,but hopefully her dads good blood will 'kick in'...I doubt it. Regardless of good genes it'd be her first flight home, and over 20 miles at night over hawk covered areas especially for a YB of NO experience...well lets say the odds are stacked against her.
So to answer your question,she has the blood in her,BUT, she has never raced a day in her life. 
BUT!... IF she makes it back to her loft and i get a call...BEST believe she will be my most favorite and BEST breeder.

P.S. She had one Orange eye and one Red eye. She is very special to me...


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I hope you get it back. I wouldn't be too worried about what happend,.. maybe a little imbarest because it happend infront of your girlfriend and grandparents but Its no biggy there will be others.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> I hope you get it back. I wouldn't be too worried about what happend,.. maybe a little imbarest because it happend infront of your girlfriend and grandparents but Its no biggy there will be others.


i understood that the second she left my hand. Wasnt embarrassed at all actually...i just felt HELLA bad because my grandmother and girlfriend were so close to tears it wasnt even amusing. I know there will be others, it just sucks because i have NO experience at all with pigeons, i honestly made a novice mistake in handling. it happens.
Their wings are just so powerful. one wing got loose started flapping and one second she was here and then *flap*flap*flap GONE!
Now i can distinctly recognize the sounds of pigeon wings...to me,it's such a beautiful sound.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Racers have very powerful wings and sometimes you don't want to hold on or hold to tight when the bird is wriggling out of your hands incase you hurt it. Natural instincts tell you to let go rather than hurt the bird. 
I like the clapping sound too. Croppers do it so well. Check this boy out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEF054ydI2A


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> *Racers have very powerful wings* and sometimes you don't want to hold on or hold to tight when the bird is wriggling out of your hands incase you hurt it. *Natural instincts tell you to let go rather than hurt the bird. *
> I like the clapping sound too. Croppers do it so well. Check this boy out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEF054ydI2A


WOW,i can honestly listen to that sound all day. and the cooing too. 

Whew, im glad you said that now i fell less like...crap. You're so right, i really underestimated HOW powerful. she started wiggling and flapping and i may have loosened my gripcant let that happen again


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

It happens and a good learning experience. There is still some chance she may find her way home. About two years ago the family and I were out getting ice cream in a hot summer evening in our town when I was surprised to see an exhausted homer sitting on the ground next to where an air conditioner drops condensate. I took her home and traced the band, and was surprised to find out it was a very local fellow who had some homers. Apparently she was a prisoner breeder, and this man's elderly father mistakenly took her along with others on a training run some miles away. The bird was a prisoner and had never trapped or been outside the loft. We found her probably two blocks from the man...........so although she did not know eactly where her home was she was very much "in the ballpark" and tried to get home.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope you get her back.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

here is the only existing picture of this bird


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## Crazy bird lady (Jul 25, 2011)

One of my guys at 6 months with no trapping or flight experience escaped. I counted him as good as gone, but 7 days later he showed up back at home. 
I have a hen from another loft that went missing from a race start, and arrived home four YEARS later (Obviously someone had claimed her).. Pigeons instincts are pretty incredible. It's what they do. Fingers crossed she makes it home safe.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Crazy bird lady said:


> One of my guys at 6 months with no trapping or flight experience escaped. I counted him as good as gone, but 7 days later he showed up back at home.
> I have a hen from another loft that went missing from a race start, and arrived home four YEARS later (Obviously someone had claimed her).. Pigeons instincts are pretty incredible. It's what they do. *Fingers crossed she makes it home safe.*


 So do I. The story is I pre-bought pigeons from a man before i got my loft,2 pairs. Well recently the hen from the homer pair snuck out and i was told about it. No biggie, so when i got my loft set up i went to go pick up a hen from a woman first before i pick the rest up on saturday. I barely had her for an hour, got her home,was showing her to my grandparents and girlfriend,and she slipped out of my hands and flew away. My only concern isnt if she makes it home,its if she makes it home O.K. I trust she will be fine. But she escaped at night,and had never been away from her loft, and honestly the road to her home 20 miles away is littered with hawks and falcons..
She is in my prayers,and we're anxiously waiting word from her loft.


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## Crazy bird lady (Jul 25, 2011)

Pigeons can't see very well at night. I will hazard a guess she will have found the first sheltered place she could and wil hole up there til dawn. Best of luck.
Where did the first hen sneak out from? The loft you were buying her from?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Crazy bird lady said:


> Pigeons can't see very well at night. I will hazard a guess she will have found the first sheltered place she could and wil hole up there til dawn. Best of luck.
> Where did the first hen sneak out from? The loft you were buying her from?


Yea the first hen I was told snuck out of an unproperly closed door. She was free with the cock as a pair, so it wasnt my loss but I still do feel bad my friend lost a pigeon.
I hope she sheltered up and didnt try to make the journey in the dark on instinct alone. I hope she makes it back ok..Im giving it till saturday before I start losing hope...


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## Crazy bird lady (Jul 25, 2011)

Was she not bred at that loft? Because I'm surprised that she didn't return if she was born there, and had bonded with a cockbird.

The problem with getting adult homers is the uncertainty of having them return to their new loft, regardless how much time has passed since they moved in. Some will stay, most I think would go. I'm waiting to experiment with a hen from a racing man not far from me. Once she starts to sit a nest, I'll fly her out with the others and see where she goes.

I would recommend using the adult pair as captive breeders, and flying their young, just to play it safe.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

No the first hen wasnt bred at that loft she was a breeder my friend had. I was planning on keeping both pairs prisoners until they have eggs or maybe when they are on their second round...definitely will fly their young tho, both homers and tumblers.
So im pretty sure its safe to say the first hen is long gone..


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## Crazy bird lady (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh that's upsetting, such a shame. I'll let you know how I go with my mealy hen... Hopefully she will have gotten in the motherly way before your birds are ready. Though, she has laid three rounds of eggs.. on the ground, on perches, off perches (splat) although she's paired, she is not interested in nesting at all. I'm giving her next eggs (if they survive) to my super-mum hen to raise because I want some babies! 

but when I do let her out, I'll let you know whose loft she comes back to.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> i understood that the second she left my hand. Wasnt embarrassed at all actually...i just felt HELLA bad because my grandmother and girlfriend were so close to tears it wasnt even amusing. I know there will be others, it just sucks because i have NO experience at all with pigeons, i honestly made a novice mistake in handling. it happens.
> Their wings are just so powerful. one wing got loose started flapping and one second she was here and then *flap*flap*flap GONE!
> Now i can distinctly recognize the sounds of pigeon wings...to me,it's such a beautiful sound.


 Not when it is a breeder/prisoner flying away!!! lol..
here is a "correct" or good way to hold a pigeon. how far away was her loft.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

SHE MADE IT BACK!!!
She is officially my favorite bird. Her home loft was 20+ miles away,and it was her first flight EVER away from home,and at NIGHT! Yes..she is now my favorite. Ill pick her up on saturday with the rest of the pairs.
Thank God for the homing instinct


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## Crazy bird lady (Jul 25, 2011)

HOORAY!!! Thats great news!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Great news!


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Far out. I didn't think you would see her again. Whats her name?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Far out. I didn't think you would see her again. Whats her name?


I didnt think id see her again either! Me and my girlfriend were calling her Jezebel, due to the fact that her breeder told us when she came of age she ended up stealing a cock from a hen...but now that all this has happened..I think it's fitting that my grandmother names her,as she was the most affected by her flying away. So at the moment no name.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

That is great news and that is a special bird there.....already she has done amazing things and affected you and your loved ones at the spiritual level. A happy ending for you (and your girlfriend and grandmother) and a happy ending for the bird too!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> That is great news and that is a special bird there.....already she has done amazing things and affected you and your loved ones at the spiritual level. A happy ending for you (and your girlfriend and grandmother) and a happy ending for the bird too!


A very happy ending. My grandmother is bugging me to clip her wings because she doesnt want to see it happen again. But I cant. After her making it 20 milea on her FIRST fly home, she doesnt DESERVE to have her wings clipped. Thats my baby


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I wouldn't clip either. Besides, if she does get out again you know where she will be. If they were clipped she would still try to fly but not get too far and that coudl be worst. Can't wait for more photos!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> I wouldn't clip either. Besides, if she does get out again you know where she will be. If they were clipped she would still try to fly but not get too far and that coudl be worst. Can't wait for more photos!


Yea thats what I said. Told her if her wings are clipped and it does happen again, shell fly only so far away and will probably end up dead. At least if she flys away shell be able to get to where she needs to go. Ill definitely have pictures this weekend. I also am really considering buying those nest mates that were posted on my Red Homer ad. Only issue I have is idk what theyll turn out to be  but that makes it fun for me, plus they come with pedigrees bands and most importantly by the time I get them they will be just ready tp leave the nest. Would really like a nest mate pair of very young birda. Go to the thread tell me what you think.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

That is great she did her job which is to go home! Iam not surprized she did do it..always have faith in you're birds. they will go home if able. hawks are one reason they don't make it. I would be happy with the bird as well as it did show what homing pigeons can/usually/supposed to do..even the first time out.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> That is great she did her job which is to go home! Iam not surprized she did do it..always have faith in you're birds. they will go home if able. hawks are one reason they don't make it. I would be happy with the bird as well as it did show what homing pigeons can/usually/supposed to do..even the first time out.


I know. Im so proud. Im mating her with a meuleman blooded cock.well see how their babies turn out.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

**

The splash,mismatched eye hen that "got away" is now the first pigeon i officially own. She is in my coop right now and i am anxiously waiting until tomorrow to pick up her mate and my tumbler pair. I gave my grandmother the pleasure of naming her. She named her Butter. firstly,because she loves butterflies and the way she looks and flew reminded her of a butterfly;and secondly, because...she said when she flew away she slipped out my hands like butter
Im so excited/happy to finally begin my new addiction/passion/hobby/sport.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Well an "official" welcome to the addiction/passion/hobby/sport then!! A fun adn good sport/addiction/passion/hobby it is! It is nice that your girlfriend and grandmother are enjoying them too!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Here are pictures I took today. The blue bar cock was fighting a king pigeon when I went to get him, I named him Tyson. The red baldhead WoE cock 'Mac' and the almond grizzle Russian Tumbler hen 'Diamond' where already paired when I got there, Mac was gathering sticks. I'm expecting eggs any day. I'll band them with my NWOETC bands. Wish I had some russian tumbler club bands to go with it... The blue bar white flight hen 'Butter' sat on her perch all day. Tyson was cooing at her, and he tends to perch the highest. More updates coming soon when Diamond has her squabs. Can't wait to see her babies.

Tyson in front with his mate Butter on 'Her' perch in the backround









Mac on the right, Diamond on the left. They look good together.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Day 2: Pigeons seem ok. Dunked their heads in the water just to make sure they know where to get it from. Must not be too hungry because they havent been using much energy. Put about 4 ounces of food in the coop along with a lil ceramic bowl of food in the nest box with the pregnant hen. Put the tobacco stalks in the pregnant hens nest box and on the bottom of the coop.Anything else I can do to make them comfortable let me know.

Here are all 4 together


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bird's don't get pregnant they lay eggs... all sound like it is normal. good luck.


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Nice looking birds.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks. Gave them their breakfast this morning, she layed one egg already I put it in the nesting bowl along with some food for the pair I know they dont wanna flt down and eat...might have to put out a lil tray of water too....


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Video Of My Pigeon Coop*

http://youtu.be/ajEh_LuGRo0


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Update on the coop*

added more perches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tuKzbML9Xg


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Update*

Just a quick update on how it's going.
The tumbler pair are steady incubating their eggs,which is good. they take turns as they should,they're good parents.
The homer pair have already paired up. The cock Tyson was cooing his little heart out today,ALL day. I watched him chase her around and puff up and it was just too cute. I dont know if they have mated yet,but he is already starting to build a nest at the bottom of the loft(the nesting area on top is occupied by the tumblers),and i even caught them kissing a few times. Lol,they're cute together.
Also went to the feed store and got a pound of sunflower,safflower,milo,wheat,flax,and roller mix. also a 2 pound bag of peanuts which i had the pleasure of sitting down and cracking open one by one trying to use the 24" feeder instead of the lil glass pan i was using,less mess. hopefully they can get used to that. They had a bath the othr day and today when i saw the tumbler hen off the eggs i put some water for her to play around with...till they started to try drinking it then i just took it out.

I love these birds. I got the bug bad... More updates to come


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Crazy how fast they started breeding. In about 3 or 4 days you'll be able to candle the eggs (with a torch) and find out if your having babies. 
This is called a sex linked pair because you will know the males from the females before they mature. Almond is sex linked and dominant so all the boys will be almond and you'll know the boys from the girls when they hatch because almonds have short down.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Crazy how fast they started breeding. In about 3 or 4 days you'll be able to candle the eggs (with a torch) and find out if your having babies.
> This is called a sex linked pair because you will know the males from the females before they mature. Almond is sex linked and dominant so all the boys will be almond and you'll know the boys from the girls when they hatch because almonds have short down.


Really? Elaborate more on that if you can please. Im watching the Taiwanigeon Game documentary and im seeing him candle the eggs...
What is short down and why do almonds have it? How can i tell the difference in sex before they mature? Does that mean that all the girls wont be almond,even though the hen is?Who if anyone will get the RR that the father had?I KNOW she had both eggs layed on tuesday,Feb 19,when would be the best time to candle the eggs?


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Candle the eggs after 4 or 5 days and you should be able to see veins and maybe a baby.
Short down means the down is short lol. Down is the yellow fluff you see on baby birds. Dilutes and almonds have shorter down and its thinner over the body.
yes this means the daughters won't be almond, only the sons will be. The hen gives her sex linked genes to her sons but the cock gives his genes to both sons and daughters. 
If it was autosomal (the other way genes are passed on) the hen could pass it on to her sons and her daughters just like the cock does. 
It takes a little bit of thinking to understand but once you get it its easy.
Recessive red is recessive and autosomal so a bird needs a dose from each parent to show/look like R/R.
Your cockbird looks like he may carry two genes of recessive red, a dose from each of his parents. But he may be an ash red T-cheque and not actually recessive red. Its hard to tell because he is pied on the flights and tail. 
The R/T hen looks like she could have one dose of R/R from one of her parents, she has a nice rich red in her almond colouration.
I'll stop there before it gets confusing.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Candle the eggs after 4 or 5 days and you should be able to see veins and maybe a baby.
> Short down means the down is short lol. _Down is the yellow fluff you see on baby birds._ Dilutes and almonds have shorter down and its thinner over the body.
> yes this means the *daughters won't be almond*, only the sons will be. The hen gives her sex linked genes to her sons but the cock gives his genes to both sons and daughters.
> If it was autosomal (the other way genes are passed on) the hen could pass it on to her sons and her daughters just like the cock does.
> ...


lol not confused at all. I appreciate the art of genetics. I understand,the jargan however eludes me. i know the hen has some red almond and i think i seen some brown and grey in her too. She is multi colored grizzle in my opinion. And the cock is supposed to be RR,but i have never seen one of his babies before. So it's good to asssume at this point,between the two eggs,and lets for argument sake say they are boy and girl. The boy would be almond,have some white,and maybe some red,and may be either grizzle or solid. and the girl would have no almond,but might have red white and whatever other colors the hen and cock carry...am i doing ok with this??  LOL


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Yea sort of like that. 
The boys will be almond and almond pied. probably not grizzle and definitely not solid. 
The hens will be ash red and ash red pied, maybe you'll get blue and blue pieds, probably no grizzle and definitely not almond.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Yea sort of like that.
> The boys will be almond and almond pied. probably not grizzle and definitely not solid.
> The hens will be ash red and ash red pied, maybe you'll get blue and blue pieds, probably no grizzle and definitely not almond.


Ive seen the almond hens babies when she was with a grizzle woe. Some of them came out straight blue bar pied. Idk..itll be interesting to see what happens....
One more thing, my homercock is cooing..like NONSTOP. Is that normal behavior? Best way to describe it is a pigeon growl. I think he is maybe calling to his mate but he never shuts up. I think he might be lonely at the bottom because shes perched up way up top and hes down protecting his area


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Becky??? Does this cock WOE look like an ash T-check or R/R?


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

kingdizon said:


> Ive seen the almond hens babies when she was with a grizzle woe. Some of them came out straight blue bar pied. Idk..itll be interesting to see what happens....
> One more thing, my homercock is cooing..like NONSTOP. Is that normal behavior? Best way to describe it is a pigeon growl. I think he is maybe calling to his mate but he never shuts up. I think he might be lonely at the bottom because shes perched up way up top and hes down protecting his area


Sounds like he's happy.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

thepigeonkey said:


> Sounds like he's happy.


Hahaha good. I have happy pigeons
I just did my morning routine, he was boocooing his lil heart out and then I heard the hen respond just now...so its all good. The homers are gonna have good offspring. The male is meuleman based and hes a straight muscled king pigeon fighting kinda guy. And the hen has just beautiful wings and was the one who flew 20 miles at night on her first flight away from home...I want someone to take one of their kids and see how it does for them


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Hey Luke-
I think that WOE of definately t-pattern ash red...not RR. Doesn't look RR at all on my monitor.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Finally Finished*

Done. The fly pen is around the loft. perches,took that long branch out,broke it in half and made it a perch. I feel very accomplished. Not the type of loft that everyone else has...but i'm extremely proud and happy about it


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Far out! its huge


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree.........that is nice and big and gives them some space!! Good for you! What is on the roof of the pen?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Woodnative said:


> I agree.........that is nice and big and gives them some space!! Good for you! What is on the roof of the pen?


Its a shade made for 10x10 dog kennels. Kinda like a tarp but double mash material.works great, 15 degrees less than normal temp on a hot day. I put wildlife mesh around the outside of the chainlink and 2x4s at the bottom. Completely critter proof. I know because the dog got his paw caught yesterday trying to be curious.and the cat has been roaming around it like crazy tryna figure out how to get in...he cant


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

*Video*

Here is a video tour of the chianlink loft/flypen

http://youtu.be/LLHkicDu2Vc


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## 2ube (Oct 29, 2013)

hello
i am new here, pigeon-talk.
i just want to ask permission to read all the post
i might get some important to learn on raising pigeon.
thank you


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't have to ask permission. The posts are here to help everyone. Do you have pigeons now, or are you thinking of getting some? They are great to keep. A bit of work to take proper care of them, but I think well worth it. I hope you will come back with any questions you may have. Welcome to Pigeon Talk. Nice to meet you.


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## 2ube (Oct 29, 2013)

i already have
what i need is to learn more on how to raise or to keep the pigeons in good condition and and good racer.

where to find the right thread.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There are many threads on here, about many different aspects of keeping pigeons. No one thread to point you to. 
Click on this link, and go down the list of topics. If one looks interesting, then click on it.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/index.php


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