# cat attack, looks serious, please help



## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Just caught a neighbour's cat dragging a pigeon across our deck. Stopped the attack and tried to determine the injury specifics, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Definetely tore a significant amount of feathers from the flesh from middle of neck to shoulder (where wing meets the body). There are 'chunks' of feathers across the deck and a significant amount of blood at the injury site. Pigeon seems to be holding its own, looking around alertly and standing on its two legs. No vets around here will help and the nearest rehabber is over an hour away! Please help. Can provide details and answers to questions if it will help. Thank You all!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for helping this poor bird. 
First wash the wound with diluted peroxide or betadine. Then apply an antibiotic cream, like neospirin.
Keep him warm on a heating pad set on low, offer water and seeds. 
The bird will need antibiotics, Cipro or Baytril or Clavamox. Do you have anything on hand?


Reti


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*No antibiotics as listed, but I have something else...*

I will wash the wound immediately with peroxide. I do not have any of the antibiotics you mentioned. The only thing I have is one (1) Amoxicillin/clavulanic Acid 875mg/125mg tablet prescribed for me from a cat bite while rescuing a cat from a tall tree. How ironic is that!? If the antibiotic I have is not adequate, what alternatives or resources do I have? If I can use that one pill, what dosage would I administer?
Thanks again!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please note the wash needs to be with diluted peroxide. Can you weigh the bird?


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Questions and comments regarding your advice...

1) How diluted should the peroxide be? Can I just use the 3% solution we use for us at home?
2) The bird weighs 11oz.
3) I don't think I could apply a topical ointment or cream because;
4) I did not properly describe the gravity of the wound. As I have little experience with this type of injury/situation, I decided to take some photos to show everyone that is trying to help just what the wound looks like.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Injury Pics and an updat*

Here are a couple photos of the injury site. Please let me know if I can provide more details.

At this time the pigeon seems to be exhibiting somewhat normal behaviour including 'jumping/flying' onto a platform in a hutch we have on the property. The only odd thing happening is on occassion he is 'wretching' or 'heaving' as though he will throw up. That's what it looks like anyway.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, the pill you have is exactly what the doctor ordered, a first choice antibiotic for cat bites and soft tissue infections. Crush up the pill as fine as you can with the end of an appropriate kitchen utensil in a shot glass or espresso cup. Next add 3mL of very warm water to help dissolve it, then add 7mL of syrup to help suspend it in solution. You will have a 10% Clavamox suspension (100mg/mL). Since your bird weighs 311 grams (11oz), you will need to give him 0.35mL (half way between the 3rd and 4th line on a 1cc syringe) twice a day. If no 1cc syringe, you can give him 7 drops of this with an eyedropper.

Please slather the whole wound area with Neosporin ointment (after gently rinsing/cleaning) as with no vet at hand, we really need to keep the wound moist to help it heal and close up, if you could get a hydrogel from the drug store this would be even better. His feathers are going to look a real mess with either dressing, but we can worry about that later, as this will be easy enough to solve once healed. In this instance, I would use warm saline instead of the peroxide (1 teaspoon in 8oz of boiled/distilled water), as with the Neosporin and oral antibiotics infection concerns will be addressed and while a great disinfectant, even small amounts of peroxide can damage cells, slowing down healing, and this area is just too large, IMHO, to use peroxide on. Others with more wound experience will hopefully comment before too long.


Karyn


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Hi Karyn, I do have a 1cc syringe. What type of syrup are we talking about? Maple syrup? Pardon my ignorance and thanks for the help!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

mozart said:


> Hi Karyn, I do have a 1cc syringe. What type of syrup are we talking about? Maple syrup? Pardon my ignorance and thanks for the help!


Well, any will do, but the thicker, the better. In order of preference, Karo syrup, corn syrup, pancake syrup, and maple syrup. Maple syrup can crystallize out a bit, so the others before it, but it will work, but take down the water to 2mL and syrup up to 8mL, if you use it. What we are trying to do is suspend the drug so he gets an even dose each time you draw out some. Whatever you use, shake well before using and keep in the fridge between use. Glad you have a 1cc syringe on hand, it will make things easier.

Karyn


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

How are you doing today??? Nice save by the way


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

I was wondering how this guy was doing too.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Updates!*

We were thrilled to wake up this morning and find our new friend still strutting his stuff around his temporary home. Never ceases to amaze me how resilient and tenacious animals can be!

The wound appears the same in that I'm certain it will take some time for healing. The good news is our efforts seem to be paying off so far.
We're medicating as Dobato suggested with the Amoxicillin/clavulanic Acid 875mg/125mg we had on hand. And he is drinking water freely but doesn't seem to be eating, yet.

I do have a question though, how often should we be irrigating the wound and applying the ointment? We first used peroxide but have since switched to a saline solution for the rinse. At this time we are doing everything (medicating, irrigating and topical ointment) every 12 hours. Also, how long should we continue the antibiotics? Should we continue until he has healed or for a set amount of days, ie 7-14 days?

Thanks to all who have shared their knowledge in helping us care for this guy so far.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, thanks for the update. Unless he somehow gets the wound area dirty, there is no need to irrigate the wound area, just keep the wound area well coated with Neosporin so the area does not dry out in any way. The Amoxicillin/Clavulanic acid should be given every 12 hours, as you have been doing, and I would keep him on the med for 10 days and we can reassess then.

A little red flag goes up for me when a cat is able to catch a pigeon, as many times cat caught pigeons are already ill, hence a cat has an easier time of getting a hold of one. May not be the case here, but we should bear this in mind. When you are medicating him, is his mouth/throat area pink and clear of any cheesy growths? Best to post up a photo of his current droppings, so we can have a look, even though he has not really been eating. Weight is not too bad at 311 grams, but we need to keep an eye on this and if he does not start eating very shortly, we will have to start to hand feed him. Try some safflower seeds, unsalted sunflower hearts, perhaps even a few small pieces of whole wheat bread as well, to see if you can get him interested.

Please keep us updated and see if you can weigh him and record his weight first thing in the morning to monitor his weight for a while.

Karyn


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

YAY!! Checked this thread for an update before signong off for the day hoping for an update. Great news sounds like the little guy is on the right track . Great save!


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

I didn't make myself clear when introducing this situation. We keep a few elevated hutches on the property where pigeons are fed and can come and go as they please. We keep neighbourhood cats off the property with a 7 foot high fence but one must have got in and caught the pigeon by surprise. I'll have to do a perimeter check to see how the cat snuck in. As far as I believe, the pigeon is healthy as he seemed to be fine when we saw him feeding on the property the day before. Regarding his mouth, it looks clear, pink and healthy. His poop looks normal too. I really do believe he was just caught by surprise coming out of the hutch. If I should still post photos of current droppings I will.
Thanks for the tip about irrigating and medicating. We'll continue to keep everyone posted daily. Thanks again!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

mozart said:


> I didn't make myself clear when introducing this situation. We keep a few elevated hutches on the property where pigeons are fed and can come and go as they please. We keep neighbourhood cats off the property with a 7 foot high fence but one must have got in and caught the pigeon by surprise. I'll have to do a perimeter check to see how the cat snuck in. As far as I believe, the pigeon is healthy as he seemed to be fine when we saw him feeding on the property the day before. Regarding his mouth, it looks clear, pink and healthy. His poop looks normal too. I really do believe he was just caught by surprise coming out of the hutch. If I should still post photos of current droppings I will.
> Thanks for the tip about irrigating and medicating. We'll continue to keep everyone posted daily. Thanks again!


Thanks for the more full explanation on the circumstances of his getting caught and the report that his mouth/throat are clear. Yeah, when you get a chance, we might as well have look at his droppings, nothing we like better than to look at droppings , as it's always nice to have a clear image of things in one's mind.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

mozart said:


> I do have a question though, how often should we be irrigating the wound and applying the ointment? We first used peroxide but have since switched to a saline solution for the rinse. At this time we are doing everything (medicating, irrigating and topical ointment) every 12 hours. Also, how long should we continue the antibiotics? Should we continue until he has healed or for a set amount of days, ie 7-14 days?
> 
> Thanks to all who have shared their knowledge in helping us care for this guy so far.



Please obtain by any means necessary, a tube of "Silversulfadiazine" Ointment, and, with a clean finger tip, lightly slather it onto the afflicted area once a day for the next couple weeks.

If you do not, the Tissues will dessicate, making greatly slower healing, and greatly more pain and discomfort.


No more peroxide or saline or anything else dessicating/oxidizing/drying please...


"Silversulfadiazine" - a soothing, antibiotic topical Ointment...( Usually a prescription item, but, sometimes can be got without one ).

Farm & Feed Stores usually have it, or any friendly Vet or Md can call in a prescription for it.


It is by far the best recourse when areas of Skin are missing.


Next best thing would be 'Neosporin', but get the best if possible...it is well worth the difference.


Phil
Lv


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, Phil has made a very good mention in his post for the "Silversulfadiazine" ointment, also known as Silvadene.

This ointment is used a lot with burn victims, where they have been badly burned and areas of skin burned away. It really is the ointment of choice in combating infection and creating a moist environment for new skin to start to regenerate. If you can get some where you are, please do.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

It really is so good for these situations where large areas of Skin are missing...it is very soothing, keeps everything moist and soft, and seems to allow very nice resolutions with no scarring or troubles seen otherwise.

It is the best thing I know of for this.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*New updates*

Thank you all for continuing to check in on our friend! I've got more updates for everyone...
- His current weight is 10.5oz, 0.5oz less than the day of the accident
- He is eating and drinking healthy amounts freely and regularly
- We only applied peroxide once and stopped irrigating with saline after 48 hours
- We only have one ointment on hand, Bacitracin Zinc / Polymyxin B (sulfate), which we have been applying once daily
- We plan on calling around tomorrow for the Silversulfadiazine, thanks for the advice!

And now a question...
- The wound is turning a green colour in a couple areas. There is no odour whatsoever even when smelling close to the wound. Is this green colour normal?

My next posting will include photos taken minutes ago.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Most recent wound pics.*

Please note the green colouration that has started in the last 48 hours. Your comments regarding this concern would be appreciated. Thank You!


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Recent poop pic*

Most recent poop pic. Consistent appearance. No odour.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I am not familiar with the Ointments you have been using, to know if they could/would be making the 'green' color.

I do not know what it is.

This is the upper Back of the Bird? The injury?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Could be the ointment. I would for now really make the effort to get the Silversulfadiazine tomorrow, or at least the Neosporin, until you can make arrangements to pick up some Silversulfadiazine, as I think both Phil and I are much more familiar on how they will react on wound. When you start the new ointment use warm saline water (make with boiled tap water or distilled) to, one time, gently wash away all of the old ointment and cell debris, you can use some gauze pads to help (gentle patting, no firm wiping) with this and if you could pick up a 5cc syringe from the drug store to sluice the wound as well, this would be good. Apply a good coating of ointment a few times a day, a little more is better than a little less when applying the ointment, (for example, when applying the Silvadene if you get it, right after applying it you should not really be able to see any tissue -the Silvadene is an opaque white cream) and update the photos in a few more days. A bit of a drop in weight is not unusual as he adjusts to his new circumstances and you're right, his dropping looks good.

Karyn


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I just hope that green is not tissue dieing (necrosis).......


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, let's remember peroxide was initially used on this bird's wounds, so we are going to get some surface tissue damage from this and this could be these dead cell sloughing off. The wound is well supplied with blood, he is on a drug of choice for soft tissue wounds and will soon be on an ointment we are more familiar with to better judge things. So outside of the general concerns for a wound of this size no real red flags going off for me just yet.

Karyn


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Thanks for your positive comments Dobato! We're trying to get a hold of the Silvadene today but it's not looking good so far. The ointment we are currently using is a generic brand Polysporin available here in Canada.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, In Canada the equivalent of Silvadene is a product called Flamazine, it is a prescription product, but if you have a sympathetic Doctor or relationship with a local pharmacy you should be able to get a tube, almost all drug stores would have this in stock, would also not hurt to ask at the counter if they would sell you a tube. Please get real Polysporin ointment, no generic.

Karyn


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Thanks for clarifying the different product names between the two countries. We are still trying; hopefully we have luck. We typically don't buy generic. The ointment we had at the time of our little friends injury was the result of the retailer being out of small tubes of Polysporin and the person working insisting it was the same. I was going to buy the real Polysporin but have been trying to get the first suggested hydrogel and now the Silvadene/Flamazine. Going out right away to buy Polysporin, just in case all else fails.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Could be some bruising (don't hardly see how not) that has caused the green. Bruising on birds causes a buildup of "biliverdin", which is a bluegreen pigment. Usually, you see it UNDER skin, so it typically looks different.

Try adding a picture where the wound can be seen with the bird standing normally (with his head up) so everyone can get a better idea of the exact placement. Birds don't usually get skin infections in cases like this (although it can happen, in which case you'd smell something) but large areas where the skin is literally gone can take quite awhile to heal completely. Often, the skin is torn and can lay open much wider than it would be if one simply pulled it together--can't tell here by the pictures (which is typical). If the skin is simply ripped (albeit raggedly) and can be drawn together, it's generally a good idea to get it sutured up as soon as possible UNLESS... it's been open too long. When that happens, the underlying tissues that are now exposed to air will start a process of epithelialization (ain't that a mouthful? you can think of it as scarring) that's very difficult to stop. In such cases, you can still suture the flaps together and then "unlace" them every few days to clean out the debris that fills in under them, and then suture them back up again. It's a nuisance, but it helps the healing process. In the end, the newly formed scar tissue will tractor together and the original borders of the skin will come together at long last and you won't even be able to FIND where the bird was ever hurt. That's a pretty cool trick, wish we could do it!

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*More wound pics*

These photos should show a better orientation of the wound.
I certainly hope the discoloration is from bruising as Pidgey suggested!
I'm not confident the wound could be sutured as such a large area is affected. Considering he seems to have experience with this, I'm curious if Pidgey will think differently upon viewing the new photos. We had no luck obtaining the Flamazine, I guess sympathy wasn't the mood of the day. Our regular vet was the closest we got, but he doesn't stock it. We have applied the Polysporin twice today.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...'Polysporin' it is then for now...

Maybe you can get the Silver Sulfadiazine Ointment/Cream from an on-line Supplier.

"Google" is our friend -


http://www.vetdepot.com/Silver-Sulfadiazine-Cream-1-Percent-50-gm.html


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

> Our regular vet was the closest we got, but he doesn't stock it.


Phil, have you ordered from them before, as they mention in the link a prescription is required. Also, Mozart, you can double check with your vet, but if I am not mistaken, they can write a prescription that will be honored at a pharmacy, since it is impossible for most vets to stock many incidental meds, drugs stores will take their prescriptions, as a great deal of drugs used in humans cross over to the animal kingdom as well.

Yeah, Pidgey is one of the best we have here for these kind of wounds, among other things , his thoughts I think are on point, thanks posting up the new photos. With the Polysporin, as mentioned before, apply a good amount a few times a day and we should be good, and you never know with the Silvadene/Flamazine, things may work out yet.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, I'm sorry...I just did a fast 'google' an did not read further.


Amazon sellers have it...there are some on e-bay even...any Farm or Feed Store should have it...


I had excellent results using plain old 'Neosporin' on scalped Heads and on very badly Dog Chewed Bodies where no skin remained...


I just feel that the Sulfadiazine is even better...and much tidier, and a lot less of it works splendidly, it only needs a very light thin application.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Wasn't sure if perhaps it was one of those deals where they cover the fine print in the info, but would ship without a prescription, pending later receipt of said prescription.

Agree with the points you make on both ointments, let's see if there is a chance for a script from the vet, as it would be the fastest.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I would think any Pharmacy would carry it, and if able to get a prescription called in, then it would be an easy deal.

Trouble is, most Vets will not call in a prescription unless seeing the Patient, which means the time and cost of that, so...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

was there a reason this bird did not go to a veterinarian?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> was there a reason this bird did not go to a veterinarian?


If you read the first post, Mozart stated no vets would help, I took this to mean inquiries were made and Mozart was told they could not help a wild bird and also mentioned that the nearest rehabber was an hour away as well.

Karyn


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he can say the "rock dove" is his pet bird.. sometimes if one states where they are located a vet can be found... This one may need veterinarian care.....IMO, or try a bit harder to find one..


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi spirit wings, 


Even if a Vet were available and interested, there is nothing a Vet could do or offer this Bird which Mozart is not already doing a perfectly fine job with.

If anything, many Vets would simply recommend euthenasia, since it looks like a hassle far as recovery ministerings and time are concerned.

So, have no worries, things are going as well as they could, Vet or no Vet.


If I had this Bird, and took it to my good-guy-Pigeon-friendly Vet, Vet would say, "Big chunk of Skin missing...seems fine otherwise..."

And, after talking with me, he'd add, "Well, 'Neosporin' is very good, but, the Silvasulfadine is just a little nicer and maybe a little better...ya want to keep it from dessicating...and either one will do it..."


And that would be it...in this case.

Which is where we are already.

The Pigeon is well hydrated, eating, pooping nicely, active, and social...no suggestions of any troubles to be concerned with.




Phil
Lv


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm reminded of the story of "Almost Lunch", a bird that suffered a very similar injury from a ?hawk? in the UK. That was one of Nooti's stories, as I recall. Cute name, huh? Anyhow, the worst one that I've ever had with this kind of thing was good 'ol Ms. Pierpont (and she STILL let's me have it verbally in the loft when I get too close) and her story is here:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

Trust me, they're _tough_!

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

First, a hearty thanks to Dabato, pdpbison and Pidgey! 
To clarify, I have been to the somewhat local wild bird care centre MANY times before but I am reluctant to bring badly injured pigeons to them. I have spoken candidly with a couple of them in the past and they have told me that after a bird arrives at their facility thay are unable by law to return the bird to the persons care that brought it in. BIG concern here is what they went on to say....Pigeons are considered common and to have healthy numbers and if a Pigeon is brought in that requires an intensive long rehabilitation that they euthanize it so their dollars and time are put towards more "rare" species. The drive is not a long one and I would have taken it days ago if I thought he would still be alive and receiving the care he deserves. 
Odd thing with our vet, if he stocked the Flamazine he would sell it to me, otherwise he won't see a wild bird and write a prescription. Closest avian vet is out of province and won't see wild birds...tells us to go to a wild bird rehabber. Farm and feed stores, another no. I hope everyone understands that this is, by far, not the first bird I have helped. I am willing to go the distance to come to the aide of these helpless, great creatures, but I am not naive.....sometimes, no, alot of times it is hard to find someone that is in a position that can assist you but actually will.
That all being said, pdpbison inspired me ,after having no luck yesterday, to not think just locally. Amazon has a product called Thermazene it is 1% Silver Sulfadiazine Cream. I figure that this is exactly what I am looking for, even though the name "Thermazene" hasn't been mentioned. I noticed that it mentions that the side effects can include irritation and pain, how much should this be a concern for me? I would like to order immediately if everyone is in agreement.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mozart,


Should be fine...


I think 'Thermazene' is just one of the Trade Names is all.


No idea what conditions the 'side effect' would require...far as I have seen, it is a soothing and very welcome topical Ointment which the Bird will welcome.


Phil
Lv


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For my part, you're welcome.

This story ain't over yet, though...

Usually, they put Silver Sulfadiazine on burns. The silver is actually in it to kill bacteria, but there's also the Sulfadiazine. Truth be told, there are different ways of dealing with this injury that will all "get there" in the long run. Naturally, the best way would have been for a vet to disconnect some of the local fascia, pull up the resultant slack and just suture it together within hours of the original injury. Oh, well... missed that opportunity, guess we gotta' do it one of the harder ways now.

These things happen--it AIN'T a perfect world.

In any case, Mozart, it's a good thing for this bird that you found him.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart we try our best, and you're welcome from me as well. I agree with Phil, the Thermazene should be fine, just another name for what we are looking for. This wound will be open for some time yet, so good to order some.

Thank you for broaching the downside of sometimes taking an ill/injured pigeon, that with some care, would recover in time to some Wildbird Centers, what you have laid out is the unfortunate truth that does happen.

Anyway, I agree this bird is lucky to have found his way into your caring hands.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh yeahhh...a caring patient interested individual can take the time and interest in an individual Bird, and manage a fine recovery...where, wildlife centers or vets have entirely different modes and priorities.

Ideally, one can somehow make friends with either, to get some meds or get a procedure done under the table now-and-then, or as may be, where one zips 'in' and 'out' fast, pays Cash with no receipt, and everyone knows the score and is cool with it...Candy or Flowers for the Receptionist or Office Girls...'Grease the Wheels'.


Far as this Bird is concerned, you can also do a few nice things to suppliment their Nutrition a little, which can aid them in healing even more rapidly than they might otherwise.


We can go over some of that later today sometime.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

mozart said:


> First, a hearty thanks to Dabato, pdpbison and Pidgey!
> To clarify, I have been to the somewhat local wild bird care centre MANY times before but I am reluctant to bring badly injured pigeons to them. I have spoken candidly with a couple of them in the past and they have told me that after a bird arrives at their facility thay are unable by law to return the bird to the persons care that brought it in. BIG concern here is what they went on to say....Pigeons are considered common and to have healthy numbers and if a Pigeon is brought in that requires an intensive long rehabilitation that they euthanize it so their dollars and time are put towards more "rare" species. The drive is not a long one and I would have taken it days ago if I thought he would still be alive and receiving the care he deserves.
> Odd thing with our vet, if he stocked the Flamazine he would sell it to me, otherwise he won't see a wild bird and write a prescription. Closest avian vet is out of province and won't see wild birds...tells us to go to a wild bird rehabber. Farm and feed stores, another no. I hope everyone understands that this is, by far, not the first bird I have helped. I am willing to go the distance to come to the aide of these helpless, great creatures, but I am not naive.....sometimes, no, alot of times it is hard to find someone that is in a position that can assist you but actually will.
> That all being said, pdpbison inspired me ,after having no luck yesterday, to not think just locally. Amazon has a product called Thermazene it is 1% Silver Sulfadiazine Cream. I figure that this is exactly what I am looking for, even though the name "Thermazene" hasn't been mentioned. I noticed that it mentions that the side effects can include irritation and pain, how much should this be a concern for me? I would like to order immediately if everyone is in agreement.


I work at a vet hospital so Im a bit bias... but of course you do what you think is the BEST thing for this bird.. also pigeons are/can be domestic..not wild... some are just feral.. so they do count as a pet..if one states that case and does not say it was found.. our vets here would never turn down someone saying their pet rock dove needs medical help, so just in the future if you decided a bird needs more than home care..you can say that to get in to see a vet.. but that is a discussion for another day.. and hope THIS bird survives his attack.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

So, is this bird still alive?..or is this thread gone underground...?


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Update*

Hello Everyone, we're still kicking over here!

Our friend is doing very well and full of energy and attitude. The wound is starting to scab over. Is this a good thing? I may be wrong but it also appears there is fatty tissue developing in some areas. Would this be possible? Still no foul odours and we're keeping the wound moist with Polysporin. Silvadene was ordered and should be here in a couple days.

A question if I may,... He seems to have started scratching or picking at the scab that has started on his shoulder. Should this be a concern? At this time it seems okay but a few small scratches are evident.

Thanks!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, thanks for checking in and glad to hear your little guy is doing very well. Yes, some scabbing will be normal, just make sure the area stays well coated with the ointment. And yes, he will try and pick at it a bit, as much like us, healing will make him aware of the area, we feel this as itching, and will cause him to give the area attention.

Best post up a few close-up photos of the area so we can have a look see, and make sure things are progressing as they should be and his extra attention to the area is of no real concern.

How much med do you have left?

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Glad to hear from you two!


Some updated images?


Something like this is bound to itch or pinch or cause them to want to preen or scratch a little...I do not think in this case she could reach the area with a Foot though, which is good.

Adipose deposits would normally occur in some areas under the skin...and I do not know what I would expect in this sort of instance with that, since no skin is yet re-grown to be there for them to be occuring under...so, I don't know.


JUst keep making sure all is slathered and staying moist.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Some Concerns*

We have a couple concerns since our last posting.

1) A new behavoiur has developed. We noticed he has started blinking a lot which he was not doing as of last night. Our concern is the Polysporin is saturating the feathers all around and, recently, onto his head and around his eyes. I've posted a side profile shot to show how close the ointment is creeping near his eyes. We took a warm, damp cloth and gently wiped around the eyes and top of head and the blinking slowed but did not stop.

2) While the wound continues to show obvious healing including progressive granulation, the weight of the feathers due to the Polysporin is causing the feathers to sit in the wound when they previously did not touch the wound. Maybe in part because of this or maybe some sinister reason (meds reaction or site infection from him picking at it?), there seems to be slight swelling at the wound today. Also, the same area seems more 'pink' or brighter in colour as is seen in the other photos attached to this posting.

At this time I suppose we're looking for the next steps in our treatment. Everything else seems to be in check including appetite, hydration, droppings, energy and general vitality.

Thank You all.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Recent poop pic*

Poop is still looking good.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi mozart,



Yes...the Vasolene based Ointments can or will 'wick' and creep to one degree or other.


If you have some fine Cuticle Scissors, you can trim away some of the surrounding Feathers of the wound area so they do not droop 'in', trimming them low, close to the skin, one-at-a-time.

The wicking is not always a problem, and it does not hurt anything, if possibly by getting into the Eyes, it would be a little annoying for the Bird.

The Silversulfadiazine does not wick or creep like this.


Slight superficial colors of a large wound area are usually just that, and are not in themselves any worry.

Possibly, some Paper Towel, dampened well but not dripping, but wetted in warm Soapy Water, could be used to pinch and wipe various Feathers or to wipe short Feather areas being effected by the Polysporin to remove some of the excess which has been getting into them.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Thanks Phil for the quick reply! 
I am glad that you think the wound is coming along as expected and there is no additional worries, poor bird has been through enough.
Reading that the Silversulfadiazine doesn't wick or creep like the Polysporin makes me that much more anxious for its arrival. I will trim some of the most bothersome feathers and clean the remaining. Do you have a suggestion for the soap that I am to use, everything I have in my home is natural but want to be sure I don't use something that may irritate him. Also, he has been on antibiotics for 10 days. I have concerns of him being on the meds for too long but have enough for another 10 days if needed. Thanks!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi mozart,


I think you can give the antibiotics a rest now.



Any regular Dishwashing Soap should be fine...just put a squirt into a quart Saucepan, add warm Water, use that for wetting the Paper Towel pieces. Follow with plain warm Water wiping or let her cool Water Bathe if she wants.

Poop looks good...


Various injuries I get in, I might spend quite a bit of time trimming off Feathes just to get to the wound and have it accessible...they grow Back, so trim all you like...just do one-Feather-at-a-time.

Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Me, I'd tend to wash the affected feathers with Dawn to get the greasy crap out without cutting them. I say that because they won't grow back until a molt which might take... quite awhile. Using Dawn, you will temporarily negate their natural waterproofing, but it won't take that long to get it back so don't worry about it.

Those aren't fat deposits--it's actually skin loaded with inflammatory debris. Bird pus isn't like ours, it's more like scrambled eggs. However, what you're seeing isn't exactly accumulations of pus in pockets--it's just in the extracellular regions in the skin bordering the wound. That skin is slowly contracting inward towards the center and will eventually fill the hole like I may have mentioned previously. As bad as it may look, it looks great, all considered. It's actually a good thing that he's messing with it--that helps it to contract so don't worry about it, Mother Nature at work.

Pidgey


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mozart, thanks for the photos. What you can do to have more control over the cleaning is mix up some Dawn with some very warm water in a spray bottle and hold the bottle tip close to the feathers and spray into them, while holding some paper towels/Kleenex just below where you are spraying. This worked well for me on a bird I was using an ointment on. If you wanted to take it a step further, you could pick up a small bottle of "no tears" baby shampoo, this will allow you to wash further up the neck area, closer to the eye, without having to worry about some getting in the eye to irritate it. For both, after you are happy with the wash, you will need to fill the bottle with plain warm water to give things a good rinse out, then blot him up well with Kleenex to dry.

As both Phil and Pidgey mention the wound is coming a long well (yes, the poops look good too), I also agree that he could come off the oral antibiotics now and you will have enough if for some reason they are called for again with him.

You are doing great with him,

Karyn


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wow, she does look good, nice pick skin there... thanks for the update..


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