# Help needed with baby rescue pigeon



## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Hi all

Today my partner found a baby pigeon on a grassy stretch near a main road. There were a couple of dead older/adult pigeons nearby. Anyway he brought the little one home with him.

From photos I've checked out online I'm sguessing this baby is about 3 weeks old (can't be sure though since I'm no expert). He has a few of the little yellow feathers on his head. He can stretch and flap his wings OK but can't fly. 

The trouble is we've now had him (I say "him" but I've no idea whether he's male or female) for around 6 hours and we can't get him to eat or drink anything. Is this normal? We've tried moistened EMP bird rearing food, very soft scrambled egg mushed up with digestive biscuit, scrambled egg by itself, water. Nothing. Is this the right food? Should we just leave him and try again in a few hours? Should we be opening his mouth and pushing the food in ? 

Other problem is his left eye. It's all covered in what looks like a crust of some sort. The other eye is fine. I've tried bathing it to try to clean it off but the gunk won't come off. You can't see the eye at all. In fact I've no idea if there is one. Doesn't seem to bother him though and he doesn't squeak when I'm bathing it - although he has been squeaking quite a bit on and off but that's usually been when we've left him to sleep by himself. 

Finally he's permanently standing up. I thought baby birds nuzzled down into their nest but this one stands up even when he's sleeping. 

Anyone point me in the right direction ? Tell me what we should be doing ?

Thanks.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi and welcome to Pigeon-talk. Thanks so much for rescuing this baby. Please make sure you keep him safe and sound while he finishes growing and gets over whatever ails him. There is lots of advice in this site on what to do's to start on keeping the pidgie safe and comfy. Just use the handy dandy search drop-down to find some of those threads. 
Please make sure he has fresh water to drink. He was at the age where he was starting to learn to eat so you may have to do some tutoring. 

There will be lots of experts coming on over the next several hours to help you with advice and someone may actually live close enough to take over the bird's care if you need help. So, what they usually want to know is "can you post a picture" of the bird and its eye and "where do you live" (not the details but city and state or if you're in the UK (which sounds like you may be since you referred to a digestive biscuit, not a common term in the US or Canada (I think)), just the city. There are members here from all over the world!
So be prepared for lots of great advice and help!  You came to the right place and thanks again for rescuing this baby.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello, and welcome. I also got the impression that you were in the UK.

This is a link to information on feeding baby pigeons. They don't gape so you will have to open his mouth and put the food in. There are links on that page to feeding methods.

http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/feeding.htm


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Hi Flitsnowzoom and cyro51

Thankyou both for responding.

Here is a pic of the pigeons eye (it was the right one not the left as I originally said:











I'm sorry if the photo's too big for this forum. It's taken me ages to actually upload it and then try and resize it - lol I'm hopeless with cameras and photos at the best of times!

The good news is that I managed to get him to drink something earlier. Still haven't managed to get any food down him but I'll try and get his mouth open and get the food in somehow (thanks for the link). Since he's guzzled his water he's stopped squeaking and is now fast asleep - actually snuggled down as opposed to standing upright with his one good eye closed. 

I've decided to take him to the vet next week to take a look at his eye and give him the once over - just to be on the safe side. I know of a vetinary practice that specialises in aquatic, avian and small animals. That eye's really bothering me and I thought the other eye was looking a bit red too just round the lower rim.

You are both correct - I am in the UK. England, Manchester to be precise.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Flyaway said:


> Hi all
> 
> Today my partner found a baby pigeon on a grassy stretch near a main road. There were a couple of dead older/adult pigeons nearby. Anyway he brought the little one home with him.
> 
> From photos I've checked out online I'm sguessing this baby is about 3 weeks old (can't be sure though since I'm no expert). He has a few of the little yellow feathers on his head. He can stretch and flap his wings OK but can't fly.



Hi flyaway, 


Yes, depending on species, he will not be flying untill developed enough, and for regular 'Pigeons' this is around four and a half weeks or a little more...but this does not mean they 'then' are flying 'as' adults, but merely that they are flying short forays of some yards merely.





> The trouble is we've now had him (I say "him" but I've no idea whether he's male or female) for around 6 hours and we can't get him to eat or drink anything. Is this normal?



Yes...he is used to being fed and watered by his parents, in their manner of doing so.

You are not his parents, or, you are not a Pigeon who is offering to fill in and feed and water him in Pigeon-ways of it, and the gestures you may make, and the whole paralinguistic of it all, and the food and water 'as' itself, make no sense to him in the terms he is used to...for him to even recognise your intentions. Likely he has never seen food or water before...since their manner of being fed is to insert their Beak into the throat of the parent.


So, your intenions need to be deferantial, and informed, to be able to meet him half way... always, in cases like this, there will be these disjunctions, otherwise. This is so for everyone, all the time, unless they know the drill.




> We've tried moistened EMP bird rearing food, very soft scrambled egg mushed up with digestive biscuit, scrambled egg by itself, water. Nothing. Is this the right food?



Wrong foods...Pigeons are Vegan...but the issue is more about respecting the terms he needs for the gestures themselves, for him to respond, and for him to understand your offer to feed and water him, in his terms.

Probably, three or four hours of successful electrlytes would be best to do first...

This can be a Glass of Tepid Water, into which you have dissolved a couple good pinches of Salt, and, of Sugar.

The Water/eletrolytes must be near body temperature when offered.

You can moisten your finger tips in hot water, and gently, from on low, from his Eye level or so, gently massage his Beak toward it's root, with these moist warm finger tips of one hand.

If he "nuzzles" then and Squeaks in response, with your other hand, offer him some of this tepid Water in a very small Glass or Tea Cup..as you have these finger tips on his Beak, simply bring the Tea Cup of Water to his Beak with the other hand, and then gently guide his Beak into it so he may drink...and as you do so, you keep your finger tips on his Beak the whole time.

After a few rounds of this, he will drink when you merely bring the Tea Cup of ( must be 'tepid' ) Water to him and hold it in front of him down low.

Do this first, then, in some few hours, you can try food things...

I will post some links to other threads shortly, for you to read, in which some details of the food things are explained...which may enable you to make these gestures close enough to his terms, for him to respond and eat nicely and with success for you both.




> Should we just leave him and try again in a few hours? Should we be opening his mouth and pushing the food in ?



I will post some links in a little while...

If you offend him or damage his trust of you by use of force or awkward impositions, it will be hell ever getting him to have anything to do with you, ot to trust you for offering him anything, or to eat or drink in a desired time frame...




> Other problem is his left eye. It's all covered in what looks like a crust of some sort. The other eye is fine. I've tried bathing it to try to clean it off but the gunk won't come off.



Obtain some Antibiotic Eye Ointment...which can be had of any Pharmacy or Vet or people doctor or most any Farm Store.

In some places this requires a perscription, sometimes not.


But absolutely, do get some, it comes in usually a very tiny tube.

If you can not get any NOW, get some 'Neosporin' and use that, PENDING every effort to obtain the correct one.


Take a Q-Tip, squeeze out a little squiq on to the Q-Tip, then gently 'roll' the Q-Tip over the upper part of the Eye lid area, so you are rotating the Q-Tip at the same rate it is passing the Eye...so the Q-Tip is like a Wheel rolling bye...to transfer the Ointment squig to the afflicted area, or rather, to the upper portion of it. The ointment will melt and distribute itself nicely then.




> u can't see the eye at all. In fact I've no idea if there is one. Doesn't seem to bother him though and he doesn't squeak when I'm bathing it -



Stop bathing it...and obtain some Anitibiotic Eye Ointment.


Later, if you wish to bathe it, Boil a Quart of Water, into which you have put two or three tablespoons of plain Table Salt, and once cool and kept with a lid on it, use that...but only to pour over the Eye area, and not to rub or blot in any manner.





> although he has been squeaking quite a bit on and off but that's usually been when we've left him to sleep by himself.




He is hungry, among other things.

Overall, keep your hands and arms low, and close to your body, and see anyone else there does likewise...and be gentle and slow with him in all you do.





> Finally he's permanently standing up.




This is good, shows he is feeling better than 'weak'...




> I thought baby birds nuzzled down into their nest but this one stands up even when he's sleeping.



Babys, yes...but this is a juvenile or adolesent...

And, too, he is not in his Nest...is is in some strange place.





> Anyone point me in the right direction ? Tell me what we should be doing ?
> 
> Thanks.



I will go find those links...


Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Looks like Pox to me. It'd be best to keep that one dry to keep it from spreading.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi flyaway, 



The eye may be a common and easy incidental infection to ammend, and most such situations are so...but do not wait a week, do your best to get an Antibiotic Eye Ointment "now"...since whatever is afflcting him is of course effecting his Eye itself, and the sooner this is ceased, the better for that Eye to be saved and preserved from harm.


But DO see the Vet if you are amenible, as soon as possible, to obtain his opinion on that matter, and else.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi flyaway, 



http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20450


I had made some mentions in this thread which apply nicely to your situation regarding food and water and working with the young Pigeon.


Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Just a word of warning, if the eye can't be saved please don't be persuaded to PTS. I have three one eyed pigeons and can make room for another if necessary.

In the meantime bathe his eye regularly with warm sterile saline. They sell it at Boots and you can sometimes buy it in the form of pods which are used as eye washes by first aiders. If you can get some Tincture if Euphrasia that is good in an eyebath. The homeopathic remedy euphrasia in the form of pilules is also good for eye infections.

Cynthia


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

OK. Just been reading some of your posts and doing some searches of my own.

I'll get some antibiotic eye ointment - will have to be tomorrow now because we don't have a late night chemist near us. 

And any antibiotic eye cream is fine for the pigeon ?


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Sorry cyro51, but what does PTS mean ?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Sorry cyro51, but what does PTS mean ?


Put to sleep. 

This is a link to a video of a young pigeon being tube fed. They like their food at body heat which for pigeons is 39 degrees centigrade. 

I don't think that we can get antibiotic eye ointment without a prescription.

Cynthia


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Sorry for all these questions!

Cyro51 I actually have some sterile saline solution (I use it for my contact lenses). But pdpbison advises to stop bathing the eye. 

Lol. I'm a bit confused now.


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> Put to sleep.
> 
> This is a link to a video of a young pigeon being tube fed. They like their food at body heat which for pigeons is 39 degrees centigrade.
> 
> ...


I did wonder about the anti-biotic eye cream without a prescription but I was just going to pop out tomorrow and see what they said at Boots. Do you think I can use the saline solution I have? It's for contact lenses - is that OK ?

Put to sleep for the sake of having an eye removed?! Oh no. I can't see either me or my partner going for that.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I don't know why Phil told you to stop bathing it because he goes on to say bathe it later with a home made saline solution. Perhaps he meant it wasn't a priority? I will leave it to him to clarify.

I am not sure whether the saline solution for lenses has something else in it...if it is just sterile saline then that should be fine.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If it's pox, you won't want to put anything on it. Am I just crazy or does that look like pox to anyone else?

Pidgey


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Ah yes. I see now. I think he meant that I first needed to get the anti-biotic cream - which is kind of looking unlikely. I will check though. And then do the bathing. I think I'm going to need a prescription from the vet. 

Are there any over the counter eye infection creams that would do the job? I'm guessing not really since I don't know of anything out there that can be used in lieu of antibiotics.


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> If it's pox, you won't want to put anything on it. Am I just crazy or does that look like pox to anyone else?
> 
> Pidgey



Oh heck. Pox ? That sounds nasty. And you say put nothing on it ? Not even saline ?


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

I think it's just pure saline. I will double check it though. If not presumably if I boiled some water and added some salt it would be similar ?

One more thing the link on feeding food says to use a good quality dried dog food (we actually have that in) but it contains meat derivatives. An earlier poster said pigeons were vegan. 

OK. So now I've lost the plot slightly lol. But I want to try and feed the pigeon now. I think it's probably best to get to a vet asap especially if it's pox (not that I know what that means for pigeons). 

Thanks everyone. I will check back on this thread regularly and let you know how things go once I've got things sorted out.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, Flyaway, Pox is a viral disease similar to chicken pox in us. It comes in a couple of forms: dry and wet (diphtheritic). That looks like dry pox, which is more of an inconvenience than life threatening. It has to run its course, though, as there's nothing we can do about it. The standard treatment is to try and keep the lesions dry so that it doesn't spread around as much. They usually get it on their unfeathered skin on the beak and around the eyes but it can occur on feathered portions as well. It usually takes a couple of weeks and then a relatively horrible looking lesion can just "go away" without leaving much if anything by way of scarring.

That crust looks identical to pox to me. Unfortunately, the site search engine won't do three-letter words (anything less than four letters) so it's not so easy to go looking for past contributions unless you use a mainstream search-engine trick like this... in the Google search bar type:

site(colon)pigeons.biz pox

...and it'll probably find most if not all of the instances of the word that follows the directive to search a specific site (site(colon)pigeons.biz). Note that there is no space between the "site(colon)" and the actual site. I had to write out the "colon" because this site's software kept interpretting it as a "happy face" (i.e. siteigeons)

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Am I just crazy or does that look like pox to anyone else?


I have only had one pigeon with pox. THat was woo pigeon and it didn't affect the eye. We don't have many mosquitoes here so it isn't as common as over there. But what I have seen wasn't a crusty grunge.

One of my one eyed pigeons was found with a crust covering his eye. The whole crust fell off in one piece but the eye was beyond repair. That wasn't pox.

This is a link to the Chevita page on pigeon pox with photo:

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/specificinfections_pox.htm

Cynthia


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Thanks Pidgey. I will check that site - I think that may have been one of the sites I was looking at earlier today.

Once again. Thanks to everyone who's helped me here. I will let you know what happens.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Seems like most of the "crusty grunge" pox pictures that I think I remember seeing have come through Terry. I found one of her pictures on her website but it's not good enough for this. Hopefully, Terry will come on later and take a look since she's seen plenty of pox. I haven't seen it with any of the pigeons here, knock on wood.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have made an enlargement of the eye area. Perhaps Terry can have a look and tell us how it compares:


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> Just a word of warning, if the eye can't be saved please don't be persuaded to PTS. I have three one eyed pigeons and can make room for another if necessary.
> 
> In the meantime bathe his eye regularly with warm sterile saline. They sell it at Boots and you can sometimes buy it in the form of pods which are used as eye washes by first aiders. If you can get some Tincture if Euphrasia that is good in an eyebath. The homeopathic remedy euphrasia in the form of pilules is also good for eye infections.
> 
> Cynthia


Hi Cynthia,


Quite so!


I have wild/feral Pigeons in my out door flock who are one-eyed, and they do fine, and have been fine for all the time I have known them.

They manage very well...


Even blind Pigeons of course can be charming house-birds and companions, and they learn lots of things for getting by in our quite easy care and looking after them.

This little one looks at-a-glance to have been quite healthy and robust, and likely got his Eye scratched with a subsequent infection of some kind, or got some horse dung dusts into it and got a conjunctivitis from the germs of that.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> If it's pox, you won't want to put anything on it. Am I just crazy or does that look like pox to anyone else?
> 
> Pidgey



Hi Pidgey, all...


I never see Pox here ( and hope I never do! ) but I do see occasional 'crusty' or crusted over eyes which I attributed to sundry injury-infection of whatever sort, so my familiarity is with that, and not with identifying Pox.


So, for the Bird's sake, I do hope it is not Pox, but rather just the 'usual' dampish crusted over conjunctivitis of whatever provenance, which an appropriate Antibiotic Eye Ointment would address nicely and see clear up with but these pro-tem transient and passing topical symptoms which once gone, leave a perfect Eye.


Now, since I do not know Pox, is application of Antibiotic Eye Ointment contra-indicated?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That *could* be pox, but it doesn't look quite like pox to me. I think I would try washing that eye with warm saline solution in the hope of being able to open the eyelid and see what's under there.

Here are links to some pox pictures .. some are pretty unpleasant, so look at your own risk:

http://www.rims.net/2006Aug03

http://www.rims.net/2006Jul19

http://www.rims.net/2006Jun02

http://www.rims.net/2005Dec24

http://www.rims.net/2005Nov22

http://www.rims.net/2005Aug18

Terry


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

They have a terramcym eye ointment on the pigeon sites(Foy's), I know I just slaughtered the spelling. I believe that is an eye anti biotic ointment.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Flyaway said:


> I think it's just pure saline. I will double check it though. If not presumably if I boiled some water and added some salt it would be similar ?
> 
> One more thing the link on feeding food says to use a good quality dried dog food (we actually have that in) but it contains meat derivatives. An earlier poster said pigeons were vegan.
> 
> ...



Hi flyaway, 


Please, take pause to read the posts already written to you?


Yes, you can Boil Water with Salt, let it cool, keep it coverd, and use as a Saline rinse...but a saline rinse does almost nothing to effect any meaningful address of underlying bacteria, or to oblige them to cease their infection or damaging of the infection site.

Yes, feeding him IS of importance, as is not screwing it up where "then" only use of force and imposition will work since you by then have alienated and freightened the Bird instead of comforting it in his terms, and you will have lost his co-operation and prevented trust or ease.


Antibiotic Eye Ointment is generally obtained with or without a perscription, depending on who you get it from, depending on who has it and whether you even asked them for any.

Farm Stores sell it over the counter...around here anyway.

Pharmacys tend to require a perscription.

You are in England, and like here, I am sure you will get differing results for asking of differing sources as far as getting some.

Vets will sometimes sell or give you some for the asking, if they are in the mood, and if they feel comfortable with who is asking, and how they are asking.


The Ointment effectively moistens the afflicted are...where merely washing can moisten with a faster drying or dessicating, which...anyway, is SEEMS like a nice thing to do but is typically not as benificial as one might hope...where the Antibiotic Eye Ointment immediately moistens, loosens, penetrates, and gets after the actual Bacteria which are making the problem, and the crust and so on can come off by itself with no one needing to keep fussing with it or risking further injury to the very delicate and compromised membrane of the eye proper.


Please, read what I had already written you before doing anything rash and without knowing "how" to do it...! Lol...


Too -

If others are sure this is "Pox" and if Pox requires differing address or treatment "Eye-wise", then please listen to them and read the Posts written to you by them also, so we do not have to keep repeating the same info over and over.


Eyes are a delicate matter...so is feeding a Juvenile where you and the Bird may wish to benifit from eachother's co-operaiton...





Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Good morning! How is the pigeon?



> One more thing the link on feeding food says to use a good quality dried dog food (we actually have that in) but it contains meat derivatives. An earlier poster said pigeons were vegan.


I am sorry about the confusion. Hard boiled egg yolk is one of the ingredients of the Pigeon Milk Replacement diet for baby pigeons, together with strained chicken baby food and low fat natural yoghurt. Eggs and egg derivatives are also one of the ingredients of Kaytee Exact which most of us use for rearing baby pigeons. As far as I remember this is because they need a higher level of protein when they are young so you didn't make a bad choice by offering it egg.

And yes, you can give it soaked dog biscuits despite the meat derivatives. Or moist wholemeal bread.

I would never release a one eyed pigeon. They are too vulnerable to predators and traffic because they are so easily blind sided. Not that we expect your little pigeon to have lost the sight of that eye, we are just thinking worse case scenario.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> I don't know why Phil told you to stop bathing it because he goes on to say bathe it later with a home made saline solution. Perhaps he meant it wasn't a priority? I will leave it to him to clarify.
> 
> I am not sure whether the saline solution for lenses has something else in it...if it is just sterile saline then that should be fine.
> 
> Cynthia



Sorry for any ambiguity...


Possibly, successive rinses and dessicaitons from Saline Baths will benifit the condition...so long as no "rubbing" or 'blotting" or other mechanical fussings attend.

Maybe this is "Pox", in which case it is outside my experience as for just what one would do...should do.


I did feel that the Antibiotic Eye Ointment is a "priority" and I can not see that it would be countra-indicated if this were suspected "Pox", and I hate to see it forgotten in the interest of ongoing distractons about 'Saline' being explained again in ever more variations, or otherwise having us forget that this is very likely an infection, possibly a mundane one and an earnest one, which will benifit in remediation, from applications of Antibiotic "Eye" Ointment.


"Neosporin" can be got anywhere, anytime, by anyone...and in my opinion will suffice untill one DOES urgently acquire the more correct "Eye" kind as soon as possible.


This, getting the true and proper 'Antibiotic Eye Ointment" of course, is a problem for most people, since in most places of the Industrialized World, Antibiotic Eye Ointment requires a "Prescription" unless one GOES TO A FARM SUPPLY STORE, in the same area, where anyone, any time, anywhere, can buy it over-the-counter...or, one has connections in place already, for such situations of needing some on short notice.


Other non-prescription sources are First Aid Kits, Nurses, retired Nurses, School Nurses, Maritime, Industrial or Manufacturing First Aid Kits, friendly Doctors or Veterinarians, ditto Pharmacists, etc...

Otherwise, if with a formal stranger, who as some sort of Doctor in Medicine, writes Perscriptions for Medicines, who is IN the medical profession, one pays for an appointment, and for an examination OF the "patient" by the Vet or MD, and one MUST do so in order to obtain the 'prescription' or the Medications directly, as a basis of Medical Ethics of the Practioner, which requires them TO examine the patient before providing a Prescription...and this is usually expensive, and, not easy to arrange on short notice.


Hence, my sometimes advice of "Get some Neosporin NOW by a trip to any General Store or Grocery Store or 'convenience store', and use it till you CAN however-so, get the more correct true and proper kind..."

Instead of the Eye being lost to on-going infection, while delays in obtaining the "EYE" kind of Medicine ( all too typically, can, and will ) occur...



Love, 


Phil
Las Vegas


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Ive got some antibiotic eye ointment (chloramphenicol eye ointment BP1%) Im in the UK (Surrey) . It is unused and I keep it in the fridge so its still okay. Please phone me on 0208 974 6752 and tell me where you are. I can send it asap.

Has piggie eaten anything yet???


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Hello everyone

I think the panic's over. Have managed to feed him - yes, it's still a bit of a struggle but we're getting there. And he's drinking OK now too. I've treated the eye with Fucithalmic (started yesterday after I came off here and have applied more today) - it was what we got from the vet one one of our dogs got an eye infection - twas the only thing I could think of antibiotic-wise when I finished reading your posts. I'd completely forgotten about it.

Some of the "gunk" has gone and for the first time I can actually see the eye (yay!)

Here's a pic I just took:










Phil, you are right - the ointment (although the fucithalmic is more like very thick gooey eye drops) seems to have softened the "gunk" and penetrated in.


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Sorry, I'm trying to re-size that pic right now!

Edit: done.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The eye looks so much better, great job.
Hope his vision won't be affected.

Reti


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> *The eye looks so much better, great job.*


I Agree, poor little guy but lucky that you found him.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you for the positive update!

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Flyaway said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I think the panic's over. Have managed to feed him - yes, it's still a bit of a struggle but we're getting there. And he's drinking OK now too. I've treated the eye with Fucithalmic (started yesterday after I came off here and have applied more today) - it was what we got from the vet one one of our dogs got an eye infection - twas the only thing I could think of antibiotic-wise when I finished reading your posts. I'd completely forgotten about it.
> 
> ...



Hi flyaway, 


Very good...!


While it may well be that traditional and time honored 'rinseing' with Sterile Saline is the thing to do with Eye infections or Cunjunctiveitis, ( I do not know ) I myself have not taken that recourse, but instead, I have simply began treatment with the antibiotic Eye Ointment, which as you note, seems to sooth and slowly soften and loosen the crusts or other debris, with no other attentions needed from the care giver. This also seems to lessen or eliminate possible itching, which can ensue when dessicated injury sites are sterting to heal, and my concern with saline is the dessication...and one does not want the Bird scratching their already tender or injured Eye with a Claw because it is starting to itch...so, the Ointment seems to reduce or eliminate the possibility of itching, and hence, saves the eye from being scratched in attempts to satisfy the itch.


This softened crust or whatnot else of debris, once so moistend with the Ointment, then if slowly, falls off nicely enough on it's own, or, when far enough off the Eye itself, or loose, may be gently removed with careful use of a Q-Tip Swab being twirled in-to the material to be lifted off.


Please assure me you are 'rolling' the Ointment on with the squig of it being put on the end of a new Q-Tip, with no dragging or rubbing occuring.


This not just for you, and the little Pigeon, but for anyone reading this, for their future sitations in which otherwise, they might not know how to do it.


I will read on, and for now, so glad to hear things proceed well...!


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Feeding wise, food wise, getting him to eat wise...

I would be happy to review my own practices which have proved universally acceptable to juvenile and other Pigeons whatever their condition or frailty or injury.


If I can do it, I know you can also.


It is just a matter of slowing down, being intentional and methodical and sensitive, and meeting the Bird half-way, so we are doing things in their terms, well enough for them to be the active and interested if not downright inspired and assertive 'eater' and we merely manage that then, instead of finding ourselves in contests of will or imposition.


Dog Food of any kind ( especially now with all that red chineese 'mellamine' and 'cyanoic acid' killing tens of thousands of pets all over the world, or whatever it is being in EVRYONE'S 'pet foods' presently from these chineese crooks exporting these bulk 'proteans' and so on, ) I would stongly advise NOT feeding any "pet food" of anmy kind to any young, frail or ANY Bird of any kind.


I am glad to guide you if you like in what to feed him, as well as how to do so...so it will be very easy and safe for you both, and he can very soon be self feeding, with no bothers needed then, but for offering tones of vocal praise and admires to him.



Best wishes...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Flyaway said:


> I think the panic's over. Have managed to feed him - yes, it's still a bit of a struggle but we're getting there. And he's drinking OK now too. I've treated the eye with Fucithalmic (started yesterday after I came off here and have applied more today) - it was what we got from the vet one one of our dogs got an eye infection - twas the only thing I could think of antibiotic-wise when I finished reading your posts. I'd completely forgotten about it.


Hi,

The ointment you have is good - we use it at the Wildlife centre I volunteer at and put it into all birds and mammals eye problems.......

Good luck with the lttle guy - he is very sweet.... 

Tania x


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Hi again everyone

Canaryjayne - I missed your post last time I logged on. Thankyou so much for the offer I would have certainly taken you up on it if I didn't have the fucithalmic. It's very kind of you.

Well I thought I'd give you a final update since I took him to the vet this morning as planned. The eye was improved but still kept sticking together which was making it difficult to actually get the cream in the eye. So when I took him in today the eye didn't in fact look too much different to the first picture I posted. I was getting worried that there was a really bad infection in there that I couldn't see.

The vet took one look at the scab and peeled it off. Here's the result now:











He said there was some mild infection there and gave me another tube of fucithalmic since the other one was running low. He doesn't think there's anything to worry about and said it was quite common. I have been applying the cream with my (washed and cleaned) finger. Just squeezing it onto my finger and dabbing it onto his eyes. I did try the q-tip method you mentioned but he was wriggling so much I was scared of poking his eye. 

The vet said the food that we were giving him (ie the egg based rearing food I mentioned before) was correct. He said the little one was about 2-3 weeks old. 

As for the feeding. Well it's getting alot easier each time I do it - my other half still hasn't got the knack though. I just hold his beak with 2 fingers til he opens his mouth and then push the food in with the other hand. It doesn't sound great but it works. And Phil, to put your mind at rest, the pigeon isn't traumatised by the experience. 

But all in all things are fine. We're not going to release him back into the wild He's going to get too attached to us so he'd probably still come back anyway and we're attached to him. Plus I don't know how he'd cope out on his own after being domesticated. He's such a dear little thing. My partner's going to build something for him out in the garden for when he gets older. We'd like him to have some company when he's older too but we're not sure about the process of bonding.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Very good news, thank you! I wondered whether you could bear to part with him. My very first feral pigeon rescue was about the same age and the RSPCA persuaded me to pass her on to them for rehabilitation and release. I did that and have regretted my decision ever since.

Can you e-mail me your vet's address? It is always handy to be able to refer rescuers to a vet that knows what he is doing with pigeons and understands them.

Pigeons are flock birds and like to be in the company of other pigeons. However, they don't greet new pigeons with open wings, there is always a bit of posturing by the males when there is a new addition.


Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if it's common then that might be a local thing--that is to say that I haven't seen that around here (different places often have different primary diseases). Looks like there's a conjunctivitis going on. Is there a nasal discharge?

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Glad to see the eye looking better!


Phil
l v


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Hi again and another thankyou to everyone who's taken the time out to help.

Cyro51, I have sent you the information. 
Lol. You wondered correctly. I knew I'd be upset if I had to part with him right from the time my partner brought him home looking all sorry for himself with his bad eye. The bad eye was kind of the clincher. I'm a bit of a pushover where animals are concerned. I understand completely how you still feel about your feral pigeon. 

Pidgey, no, there is no nasal discharge. Just redness in the eyes ( the other eye looks similar but is less watery and not quite as red). I think the vet saying it was common was said in the context of him knowing that I go a bit over-board where my animals are concerned and always look at worst case scenarios (bad habit of mine, trying to shake it). I think what he meant was that it's not as unusual or serious as I had thought. He said he'd seen it lots of times before (think he meant birds in general not just pigeons). But of course it could also be a local thing like you say - I have no idea and don't know anyone with pigeons so I really couldn't say either way.


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Phil

I know you're being helpful and I've really appreciated the advice you've given me - really I have. But seriously - I'm not thick, I'm not stupid. I have the ability to learn. 

I'm going to be honest, I found some of your comments patronising to say the least. It's not as if we're going to keep him cooped up in a tiny cage, in solitary confinement never to see the light of day for goodness sake. 

This pigeon would be dead by now given where he was found and given the general population's opinion of pigeons as being vermin. 

Normally I wouldn't advocate keeping a wild creature but this one is going to become domesticated very quickly - he already is. 

And do not tell me what is "kind" or "sensible". My partner can build pretty much anything professionally from scratch. We don't go into these things with our eyes shut. We research these things first. This forum has been part of my wanting to learn more about pigeons and I've been doing as much reading as I've been able to aside from this forum on the subject.

Your comments have gone beyond helpful - they are now insulting. 

The tone of your last post you've just lost all credibility for me. So anything else you have to say I won't be reading. There are other people here who I would feel very comfortable asking for advice via pm if necessary -and that's just what I'm going to do. I won't be posting here again because I'm not about to subject myself to patronising crap. 

I apologise to everyone here for this post. I'm not trying to cause trouble. I am happy to take on board all your comments and learn from them. I'm not arrogant enough to think I know what's best and can't learn anything. That would be just plain stupid - and not good for the pigeon.

Last update: pigeon is doing well. He's been having a little walk around. He doesn't seem at all bothered by his eye.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Glad to see the eye looking better!
> 
> 
> Phil
> l v



Hi flyaway, 


This, quoted here, is my "last Post"



I am sorry you find it 'insulting".




I will be glad to leave your thread alone, to save you the continueing trouble of reading anything I have offered...



...and far moreso, to save me the time and effort and involvement and concentration, which it takes to track with and interpret these situations.


If the situations were really about the Bird, it would all be so easy.


Clearly, they are not.




Good by, 



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

That quoted most definitely was NOT your last post. Your last post has been edited to make it non-offensive.

Your unedited version managed to suggest I was cruel, incompetent, stupid and arrogant. 

So please, don't make it worse by now assuming an innocent hard-done-to stance and basically lying about the contents of your original unedited version.


Really I've had enough of your supercillious nonsense. You were offensive. Accept it and move on.

And this isn't my thread.


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

I cannot believe that you are now lying. I am gob-smacked. Seriously. You have now resorted to lying in order to appear a victim of my apparent neurosis and hallucination. 


Please remember - even if no one else saw your post - I did. 

If you want to quote something, quote what you said to me in it's entirety.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I received the original post automatically by e-mail and I guess that a lot of other members did too. I am ashamed that one of our long standing members should have been so deceitful about the contents of the post that provoked Flyaway's response.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Why can't a post like Phil made be kept on even if it was as bad as everyone says. This is just "whitewashing" a thread and it isn't fair to the recipient Flyaway to remove or edit what Phil wrote. It simply makes it an incomplete thread that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Phil is an adult and should be able to take the consequences of a bad post, as should everyone else. There have been many posts that were edited that should have been allowed to stand as they were written. Maybe then, people will be embarrassed by what they have written and stop writing inflammatory material.

JMO

I would like to add to Flyaway that I hope you don't stop posting because of one member. There are many of us who are very interested in your situation.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I'm thinking butterflies and rainbows. 

I can see how you can bond with this little guy and visa versa. This guys been thru a lot at this age and you just want to protect them and keep them safe. You are doing a great job!

Not sure what cage size you had in mind but the the bigger the better. Once your heart goes out to one pij it's gonna go out to another. He may need a feathered friend when he matures and you may find another pij in need of help.

Hope you keep posting pictures of his progress.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Why can't a post like Phil made be kept on even if it was as bad as everyone says. This is just "whitewashing" a thread and it isn't fair to the recipient Flyaway to remove or edit what Phil wrote. It simply makes it an incomplete thread that doesn't make a lot of sense.


I would agree if it had been edited or removed by a moderator but Phil edited his own post. If he had apologised instead of pretending that his brief and pleasant reply was the one that Flyaway objected to then we could have all moved on. 

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks Cynthia. That does make a big difference.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Flyaway,

I hope you will continue to post any concerns and share with us when you need to, we do appreciate all you are doing for this pigeon, please do keep us updated.


Hi Maggie,

Once the post is edited by the member, we can't resurrect the original post, and none of us saw the original post, as Cynthia did, otherwise it would have been dealt with in a timely fashion.



...and with that let's get back to the topic at hand.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I removed the post in question, immediately after it had been up for only a minute or two. I simply changed my mind about posting it, and instead made one short happy post.

I would like to think that anyone here has the right to post something, and, to change their mind a minute later, and to withdraw the post, without having to be subjected to so much drama and hostility.



So, I had made a new post, right then and there, expressing my pleasure at seeing the improvement with the Eye...which was true.

Nothing was 'edited' later, or done later. 

That then, the "Glad the Eye is looking better!" post, was my 'last' post in literal terms, and I reposted it for reference.

I then also posted to make it clear, and to explain, what had happenned, how I had pulled my earlier post 23 hours previous, and my posts about that were removed by others.


So, it then is made to appear that I did something wrong, while I am prevented from offering any clearifying information, even though those insulting or attacking me, are allowed to vent themselves in posts which remain.


Anyone who may wish to read for themselves the post I had 'pulled', which had been up only for a minute or so, 23 hours prior to it mysteriously recieveing a bad reaction, is welcome read it, since I saved it in my outlook express 'drafts' when I deleted it.


Just e-mail me, and I would be glad to send it to anyone who would like to see for themselves what it had said.

I am sorry for the way things have gone here with this, and personally, I can not see how enableing and encouraging hostile and disingenuous and accusitory posts, is allowed, while forbiding rebuttal or clearifying information to be offered.

Why leave offensive reacting posts up? When what they were offended about was long since withdrawn by it's author, the day before any offence had even been mentioned?







Best wishes,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ok, folks. I approved this last post from Phil so he could have his say in the matter. Let's all get this over with as has been suggested and get back to being concerned for the well being of the bird in question.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

How is your 'darling' little patient doing Flyaway? Is the eye improving?

As time permits, could you post an update?  

Cindy


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## Flyaway (May 11, 2007)

Thankyou everyone for your good wishes. Phil, my sincere apologies. I should have pm-ed you rather than bringing this to a public forum. I apologies for any upset I've caused you. 

The pigeon is doing well. Both eyes are no longer red. And the right eye is much less watery and it's no longer "gooey". 

He has started flying - not vast distances obviously, but he will now fly a couple of feet or so to get to something he's interested in rather than sitting there squeaking at whatever it is - so everywhere is now covered with newspaper and old sheets. 

He really is a pleasure. He met our two rabbits yesterday. They were heading for the garden and he was tucked up near the french windows observing the great outdoors. So they stopped in their tracks all surprised to take a look, he squeaked a greeting (or maybe an expletive) and then they went on their way. Brief but cute. 

I will try to update you. At the moment there's not much to add.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the update, Flyaway! 

When he is about 8 weeks old his voice will start to break and he will make a quacking noise.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Flyaway said:


> *The pigeon is doing well. Both eyes are no longer red. And the right eye is much less watery and it's no longer "gooey". *


Appreciate the update Flyaway. That's wonderful news.  

We would enjoy hearing how this little one is coming along, when you have the time. If you are able to post a couple updated pictures, that would be great as well.  

Cindy


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Flyaway,

Great to hear from you. This is wonderful news . 

What about a name for piggie?? 

I am so happy piggie has got the chance of a new life.Meeting the rabbits was a good start. I always introduce the piggies to my canaries. Then after a while they discover the fish swimming around in the tank and peer in for a look!!!

I guess there is so much more for piggie to discover. I think he is starting to enjoy life again . Thanks for sharing this good news.

Jayne.


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