# What can I feed her?



## riot (Dec 29, 2005)

We found a beautiful but very badly injured pigeon yesterday. She is missing down feathers off her back, and has had a chunk of flesh ripped from her neck, presumably by a cat.

We called the vet for advice but as pigeons are considered a pest in Sydney, we were told to have her put down. Anyway, we ignored her, and a day later, "Spatchcock" is doing very well. She's walking and tweeting and drinking and perches on my arm when I'm spending time with her.

She's lovely and we've had her for two days but she hasn't eaten anything. She doesn't look like a baby but is still not fully mature, maybe at an 'adolescent' equivelent stage?

Anyway I was wondering if anyone could advise me on how to care for her until she's healthy enough to move on? Especially on what to feed her? I've tried bread, apple, banana, we even offered her a worm but she wasn't interested in any of it. Could anyone help out a pigeon in need?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Riot,


How wonderful...good for you taking this little one in...

Are there any tiny whisps of yellow down remaining on their Feathers' tips?

...can you post an image of them for us to see?

Anyway, if this is a juvenile, they may respond well to some gestures.

Concerning which I reproduce below most of a post I wrote earlier addressing a similar concern with a definite youngster...

Now too, if this is a columbia Liva, they will be primarily dry Seed eaters, who also brouse vegation or bitter weeds at times as well. Wood Pigeons or other Columbiaformes may in addition to dey Seeds, eat green Seeds still on the plant stalks, small Berries or other fruiting bodys, as well as various greens...but overall, for the short term, they can all get along well on about the same diet as eachother.

They are not considered to eat or do do well trying to eat animal proteans or Dairy products.

Anyway, since I am tired, here is most of the earlier post from another thread. I use the same methods for the Juvenile or adolescent Pigeon as I do for Babys, untill they are effecient self feeders, and even then I will still hand feed now and then if they wish it.

My own method with new-arrive youngsters, is to moisten my finger tips in warm water, and to gently (from the front) massage their Beak with my warm moist finger tips, while I say "ooooOOooo!" in a kind of low, slow voice.

This works to communicate to them in their own terms, that I will gladly feed them...and to them, if you feed them, you are also implicitly looking after them generally.

They will tend to respond instantly by both nuzzleing with their Beak, squeaking, peeping and flapping their Wings...thus to show their interest in being fed.

Young Pigeons feed by inserting their Beak into the Beak or throat of their Parent, so, for them, they never 'see' food or water untill after they fly well enough to accompany their parents to grazeing or forraging places to see Seeds being pecked, or water being drank...thus for them then, to learn these things.

The only non-responders I have ever had were those with Candida. Even the otherwise ill or injured usually respond very well.

If they do not understand in their terms our desire to feed them and to oversee their well being, the visual presence or food and water alone may not mean anything, since they have never seen food or water before to have any particular meanings or associations to attatch to it...they only know of being fed as a social-intimate gesture ad a visceerotonic experience, from their Parents.

So, once they nuzzle and squeak, I offer them some tepid water or electrolyte, in the hollow back side of a regular people-baby Nipple...guiding their Beak into it while I keep my finger tips on the sides of their Beak so they can 'feel' something there.

After they have drank, they are usually all wound up then, twirling circles with enthusiasm and flapping and so on, and then I go make some food for them.

Of course I also hold them or cuddle them somewhat and endevor to let them know they are safe and liked and so on.

If you like, you may use the plain old fashioned Malto Meal, Roman Meal, Corn Meal, or Ralston or other 'hot' Breakfast Cereal types, mashed Graham Cracker even, combine them, stirr well to dissolve all, add some small whole Seeds ( say 30 percent or something) ...but do not cook any of it, merely warm the formula made of these things and water, warm it in a cup, with the cup in a pan of hot water...do not microwave it because that can make for hot spots which can harm them.

Or, if you can get some "Hagens Breeding Mash' or Kaytee or Loribush or whatever other brands of powdered Baby Bird formula, you can use these of course, but your Juvenile there will be self feeding very soon anyway, or with a little social-time-guidance and example, he will, and so for now, the small whole Seeds and other stuff will do just fine.

Make the formula to be about the consistancy of a Milkshake, and serve 'wrist temperature' in the hollow back side of a regular people-baby Nipple...initially anyway, releat the "ooooOOOoooo" for every occasion of offering food or water. And, keep your finger tips on the sides of their Beak as you guide it into the hollow Nipple silled 3/4rs or so with their Food formula...as, they like to feel something there on their Beak sides...if they eat fine without that, then of course you need not do it.

If you cut the mounting flange off, the central Nipple part is easier to use and for them to get their Beak into without the flange crowding their chin or neck.

Feed them till they are obviously about 2/3rds 'full' in your seeing their Crop become proud...then, they nap, day dream, poop, do their Angel-Wing-Stretches, and lay around like a little boat on shore till the next feed time. Which might be in an hour or two.

Offer tepid Water now and then in the Nipple, in case he is thirsty. If their Crop is not 'mushy-soft' they are thirsty.

They should be pooping about fourty to fifty times-a-day, with the poops being about like a plump Raisen, moist, easy to pick up in a tissue, greenish-brown and white.

I can send you more detailed care and feed info off list if you like, for which just write me from your regular e-mail, to mine...I am...

[email protected]

Consider also the addition to his formula of some basic pro-biotics and a little fine grit even.


Even though he is endothermic by now, I would still keep him warm, or allow him the option, for which, and in general, as far preferable to any cage, I have been very satisfied in the use for young Pigeons of 'The Squeaker Warm House' ...

It is a simple extempore which suits them very well in every way, and, makes it easy for you also.

Keep them free from any possible attentions from Cats, Dogs, Chilren or other potentially distracting or freightening interferences.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12888


( Only the top three images are germain to our present topic, so, do not confuse the subsequent images which were about a very old Pigeon Bird I had found...)


Anyway, this is a very good set-up for the solitary Squeaker, or, for pairs or even several at-a-time even. They stay put, and they like the arrangement. it is far closer to their natural predlictions than a cage would be.

Too, if your Bird is old enough, and it sounds like he might be, you could, once he IS eating from your feeding him from the Nipple hollow..you can sprinkle some small whole Seeds on a white Towell...where the softness and yield of the Towell makes it easier for the neophte's pecking excercises to succeed, and, peck at the Seeds with your crook'd index finger, while also saying positive things such as "Mmmm! These are some 'nice' Seeds here Bubbo! You should try them!" or as you like...

And, he will see you are doing something interesting and he will wish to try it also...

Keep the injuries moist with some topical antibiotic such as Neosporin or it's likes, which any drug store over there should have in tubes...

If he starts to seem at all wilty or dim or not interested in eating, he may need antibiotics to be administered systemically, and a.s.a.p., if infection has begin from bacteria of a possible preditor's teeth or claws.

Often, young Birds have very good chances of getting by well with no antibiotics, but do be watchful in case he does need them and ask us here.

Baytril, or Cipro is the usual choice for probable Cat or Dog or other preditor wound's possible systemic infections...

Post some pics of you can...


Good luck...!

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Now, their injury -

Is it some skin that is missing or cut open? or is flesh actually missing?

Are there any puncture wounds? On their sides or back or tail rump area?

I am overtired right now and re-read your post to note your mention of their drinking...so, that is good, certainly.

Can you describe their poops so far made?


Phil
el ve


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## riot (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks for your advice! I'll definitely try that in a minute. 

Well, on her back, which is plucked clean of feathers aside from some down fur underneath her wings and tail, there are little red 'scabs' all over her. On her neck, an actual chunk of flesh has been ripped from her neck, and was still bleeding when we found her. But apparently everything is in tact. It's starting to heal over and isn't bleeding, and she doesn't seem bothered at all by it. 

Yesterday morning, actual veins were exposed! We basically treated the cuts by taking a cotton ball and dipping it slightly in a disinfectant (Detol) and soaking it in water, then gently dabbed at the cuts. 

Her poops were very normal when we first found her, whitish and greenish, and at this stage they're very watery with almost no colour, presumably because she's only been drinking and hasn't done any eating. 

I can't post any pictures because we don't have a digital camera ^^;


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Riot, 


Ahhhhh, well...so far so good then...

I would consider to locate a sympathetic rehabber, Pigeon breeder or Racer or hobbiest, Avian Vet, Vet or people MD of some kind, and get some Cipro or Baytril...or at least investigate possibilities for getting some in case you might need it for this Bird.

Sounds like small Teeth bites, which could have been from a Cat or Marmot or Weasel or something anyway, and if these seem to be scabbing nicely and do not seem enflamed or purient, then, maybe all is fine as it is.

Usually the possibilities of potentially serious systemic infection is borne in mind when confronted with preditor bites on Birds, but, as I mentioned, many such Birds do fine with no antibiotics.

Do get some 'Neosporin' or similar topical antibiotic ointment in-a-tube at your local pharmacy, for keeping the neck injury moist. Or even to use also on the other scabbed areas.

Sounds like this youngster had a very close call indeed...

So, hoping to hear soon of how well they are eating...! And pooping...!

If you are in a cooler clime, keep them decidely warm if you can...the less energy they need to expend on self-warmth, the more energy they have for healing...'wrist-temperature' is a good rule of thumb for their immediate environ or heat source to lay upon or next to. That and no drafts...


And of course, whatever formula you offer them to eat, make sure it also is 'wrist-temperature' and not cooled. Make new formula each day, and refridgerate covered between re-warming for use.

Get some Canary or Finch Seed or Millet or Rape Seed or other small size Bird Seeds tomorrow for them to have in their formula and for initial pecking social times/experiments...and fome Grit also if you can get some...


Best wishes...

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Here is a link to images showing the day-to-day developement and growth stages/appearance of a typical Liva - 

 http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm 


Let us know if yours seems to resemble some approximate day-age shown in the images...

Nighty night from me now...till tomorrow...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## riot (Dec 29, 2005)

Well he looks to be about 19 days old! I'll try and find some pigeon enthusiasts at the pet shop or vet? 

We have a few ointments that sound similar to what you're describing, so if the scabs are looking worse I'll apply some...

I tried the feeding process you described but she wouldn't open his mouth... in a moment of frustration I pryed her mouth open and forced some apple sauce (all we had...) down her mouth... she seemed to swallow it quite happily and I'm very pleased! I repeated the process and she opened her mouth readily. Now that she's eating I'm sure she'll be fully mended, soon!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Riot,

Thank you for helping this baby.

Please get some wild bird seed or baby bird formula. This baby needs nourishment and the applesauce isn't going to provide that.

If you are unable to find baby bird food, you can do the same thing with wild bird seed. Soak it for 10 minutes, just a little at a time, maybe a tablespoon, drain it and feed it with a baby spoon. Make up a fresh little batch each time you feed it. If you can get some human grade probiotics add it to the mix, it will do the baby a lot of good.

It is messy at first, but the bird will get used to it and realize you are trying to feed it and it will get easier. 

The baby needs at least one tablespoon every 3 hours, you don't have to feed it overnight. 

Thank you for providing the baby the proper food for optimum growth and health.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Riot,


Baby or Juvenile Pigeons do not 'open their mouth' to be fed. 

These are not 'gapeing' Birds.

They eat, at this age, by inserting their Beak into the beak and throat of the Parent. Hence, the hollow side of a conventional Baby Nipple works well for them to eat from WHEN GUIDED TO DO SO properly.

Now, if you had understood what I was explaining previously, however did you get from there, to trying to put aplesauce into their beak?

Cold Applesauce from the fridge? Or???

Please...gently, respectfully, kindly, "read" what has been offered to you about what to do and how to do it.

If you botched it or did not read or understand, or dismissed it out of hand because you wanted to do it differently, then yes, the results will not be the same...the Bird is not going to respond as well or at all...

This is not a Gapeing Bird like a Robin or Songbird...their manner of eating is not the same.

Hello??


Hello????


Lol...

Best wishes...regardless...

But ya know...

Some days, I feel a little depressed with situations "like this" where I am asked a serious question, I take the time to offer a concise, detailed answer, only to find it went in one ear and out the other...

I spent like a half hour on that post to you...findingthe links, parceing it all out...

And it is just the same appearently as if I had said nothing at all.

Why are you even asking then?

...sigh...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Riot,


Sorry...please excue me feeling exhasperated...

Anyway...the method is very easy,, simply proceed methodically, slowly, gently...one step follows the other.

If you are still having problems, let me know, and we can start from the beginning again.

However, usually, once someone uses force and force feeding and so on, the possibilities of happier comforts diminish, and the Bird can resent it, or the Youngster gets discouraged or confused or exhasperated with the disjunction.

Babys and Youngsters unless VERY ill, are almost certain to respond enthusiasticaly to gestures of interest TO feed them, so long as those gestures are roughly in terms they understand.

So, let us know, and if need be I can walk you through it from the beginning again.

If you can get this right, the Youngster makes it all so easy from then on, there are no troubles orbothers and self feeding tends to follow easily and happily and soon.

Have you been keeping them consistantly "warm" as in wrist temperature?

Out of any Drafts?

What kind of food were you trying to feed them? and did you offer water first?

Did you in fact use a Baby Nipple? Or?

In other words, when you say you tried what I suggested, did you actually to so to the letter? Or change things?

Was the formula 'warm' and Milk-shake-like?

All of this matters! every detail matters...

You say the Bird would not open it's mouth, yet in my missive I made it quie clear I thought that these kinds of Birds do NOT gape, they do not open their mouths, the eat by inserting their Beak "into" something 'like' the Beak or throat of their parents.

So...it is very hard for me to guess which parts you are confused about or did not follow, since the most fundimental one of all possibly, is how a young Pigeon does in fact eat, how it is fed...and it is not by it's opening it's Beak for you or me or anyone to put things into it...

Deep breath...!

Lets begin at the beginning then? One step at a time...


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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