# Q: arshangil gens



## egpigeon (Jan 15, 2008)

Hello

I need some help about arshangel color gens map

how arshangel gen moves and works?

Thank you for help

Regards


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I assume you are talking about the genes that cause the bronze body, neck and head of archangels.

As far as current research goes, it seems that there are 2 genes responsible for the bronze coloration.

Firstly there is a partial dominant gene that causes the bronze called Ka. Heterozygous birds (Ka//ka+) usually only show bronze in the breast (though in my experience some do not - especially female F1s). Homozygous birds (Ka//Ka) show bronze in the head and neck, with bronze cast to the body.

Secondly it has been postulated that there is a recessive gene that increases the quality of the bronze (ka2). Birds that are homozygous for both these genes show the high quality bronze seen in archangels.

Two other genes play an important role in standard archangel/gimpel birds. Grease quills and/or iridescent which cause their exceptional sheen, and extreme dirty intensifying the color.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Note that they (blackwinged archangels) are not "spread" like black pigeons. The spread gene suppresses the arch angel bronze.
The bronze intensifying gene may be incomplete dominant instead of recessive, because in my arch angels I get some birds that are also bronze in the wingshields (too much expression of the bronze intensifyer).


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## egpigeon (Jan 15, 2008)

Thank you so mush for these informative replies


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

xan some one post a pic of this gen


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Henk69 said:


> Note that they (blackwinged archangels) are not "spread" like black pigeons. The spread gene suppresses the arch angel bronze.
> The bronze intensifying gene may be incomplete dominant instead of recessive, because in my arch angels I get some birds that are also bronze in the wingshields (too much expression of the bronze intensifyer).


I have also bred birds with this excessive expression of bronze (in F2) but I am not sure whether this is due to the bronze intensifying gene or something else. Most old hand archangel breeders I have asked have agreed that copper blackwing will produce copper blackwing consitently. This would mean that the bronze on the wingshield is not due to homozygous ka2.

These bronze winged birds are the reason that many researchers believe that there is also a gene called gimpel pattern (gp) which keeps the bronze from the shield, though not every one agrees. Axel Sell says it is bogus, but he has also not bred copper wings from his F2. There is a lot more research needed on the archangel phenotype...


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