# Red tail hawks friend or foe?



## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

I have a breeding pair of red tails that I see near my house daily. Yesterday I had my pair of tumblers out and one of the red tails dove after the male. He quickly evaded the hawk, but the hen seemed really upset and flew off in the distance with the pair of hawks behind her. 

Later that evening she still hadn't returned then as I did a loft check after dark she was up in her corner just fine. Are these hawks really designed to catch pigeons? They seem kind of slow in the air unless they dive, also do they keep out other hawks such as coopers? Anyone else have any experience with red tails and their birds?


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hello, all I can say, is I also have a red-tail hanging around, but it doesn't seem to be interested in my pigies, as it is eating some roadkill. I also have a pair of Bald Eagles, that when they come in, the red-tail flies off. I would also be very interested in this topic. Being a newbie to the pigeon world, I am always looking for more info. Thanks for posting this topic, I think we never stop learning.


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## gd71 (Sep 22, 2006)

I have Red Tails and Coopers both in my area and some people say they will not stay in the same place but here they do. The red tails can rarely ever catch my pigeons but the coopers catch or spook off alot of my young ones that I am trying to settle. If I fly at this time of year within 20 minutes I will have a pair of both trying to get them so I have to be on lock down. I have seen several times where a coopers catches one and takes it to the ground and a red tail chases off the cooper and grabs the pigeon. Neither one is our friends.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Yea so if they coexist in your area they could in mine as well. I was thinking the red tails would chase other hawks off but maybe not. On the plus side the red tails could good be good teachers for YBs. Since they are less likely to be successful, and could turn out to be a good lesson in evasion and keeping your eyes open for any YB.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I have a pair that nest very close to some of my lofts and have never had a problem with them (or others since they have been there). I like redtails, also I do think they help keep other hawks away. If my birds fly too close to their nest they get mad and scream and chase for a few seconds but that is about it.


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

I don't know much about pigeons or Redtails but I can tell you about the other day. Two YB's were on the peak of the roof, 45 feet up. A Redtail crused by about 50 feet above them. He didn't seem interested and the YB's didn't know any better so they just sat there.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Given time, the hawk will get one of your birds. 
I too flew YBs last year with a pair of red tails and their babies in a neighbor's tree right across the street from my house and for almost the entire year I thought that there had to be something wrong with these guys because sometimes they looked downright silly going after my birds. One even somehow managed to end up underneath my breeder loft and get himself all banged up while thrashing around trying to get out from under there. 
SO yeah, 9 times out of 10 a hawk is nothing more than a fast trapping aid for your YBs but it's that 1 time that turns out really gruesome.


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## fasttrapper (Oct 27, 2007)

*Red Tails*

Grim,

In the past I would say don't worry as my birds (I have homers) would often as a flock chase the red tails in formation. 

I have had friends recently who have had the red tails come after their homers. I'm sure as mother nature intended it though, IF the hawk has a chance at your birds (young bird, sick, slow etc.) it will come after it.

Since red tails are protected, you are only left with the option of either keeping your birds locked up or figuring this hawk dilema into your survival of the fitest selection process.

Sure none of this helps but it's what I know about the subject.


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## PSUPigeoner (Mar 4, 2007)

My dad and i were out shooting clay birds on Sunday and there were three of them flying together. My neighbor rehabilitates them and then lets them go.  


Ryan S.


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## Canadamanada (Jul 2, 2007)

Something to remember is the Red Tail is a protected species, and our pigeons, are, well they're pigeons. One is a wild animal, and one has been introduced to the environmant by we humans. Leave the Red Tails alone, and if they get one of our birds, that's nature at work. Red Tails are not built to fly down a pigeon, but the can ambush one. Keep your pigeon housing away from places where the hawks might hide, such as a nearby tree.

Justin


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Doves and pigeons, rabbits and mice, are the trail mix of the natural world. It's perfectly alright for them to get eaten occasionally, even though it can upset the owners.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons can usually out-fly most hawks, and the red tails are not as agile (and their choice of prey is not usually pigeons,)as the cooper hawk. I would not let my birds out with either of the two types of hawks around.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

red tails will catch young when they are first let out,because usually they cant fly very well until they mature.but,coopers hawks will catch them no matter.i have lost more to coopers over the years than anything.


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## fasttrapper (Oct 27, 2007)

*Red tails*

I forgot one more thing.

Keep the trees around you loft well trimmed. As others have already pointed out they like to ambush the birds. This means keeping them off the ground as much as possible. Two ways to do this is make sure they are NOT denied enough grit. If they are not getting what they need from their grit they will want to be down in the grass. The other solution is to flag fly them to reduce the amount of time they will want to come down and play around.

Fast Trapper


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## roller (Oct 25, 2007)

How can you tell a cooper from a falcon? sorry new to this. In my area there's like so many different kind of BOP that I don't know of. But I mostly deal with owls and a grayish tanish type of bird


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

http://urbanhawks.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/hawk14thst.jpg

Here is a coopers, they are pretty good at catching young or unconditioned birds.

Just google some of BOP in your region and you will learn to identify them.


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## BandtailX (Jun 5, 2007)

*Red-Tails vs Pigeons*

Red-tails quarry is primarily ground based. The Coopers is the bird hawk of stealth.Blitz style sneak attacks are the m.o. of the Coops. I only have one bird of prey to worry about. The Peregrine. I'm too far from a lot of trees and places for Coopers to hideout and ambush. Red-Tails are not the best flying in the strong winds off the headlands. The Peregrine rules the skies around here. I actually enjoy watching my pigeons "skyout" to get above the falcon. My birds constantly fly in strong winds. The stronger the better I feel. The young one take to the air better in a good wind, and the older birds play with it. I've been flying for almost a year now and have only lost one bird to the falcon. It was one of the last ones to come trailing into the loft. If a peregrine takes a pigeon most likely it's one of the slower birds. But don't worry about those sluggish Red-Tailed hawks.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

We should not under-estimate any of the Birds of Prey sluggish or not.


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## Fishsean1 (Feb 4, 2008)

I have been having problems with Red Tailed, Coopers and Falcons trying to take my birds. I have Homers, And one Roller. They have been unable to catch any with so far. The Red Tailed and Falcons try to dive in, The Cooper flies from the trees and tries the ambush technique. The Falcon is by far the fastest. I try to stay out with the birds while they fly around the loft. Last week I jumped in between a Red Tail and my birds while the hawk was in a dive with the talons ready. It was a sight seening this big bird trying to "put the brakes on". Anyway hawks are not the pigeon fanciers friend if you fly or race them.


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## roller (Oct 25, 2007)

thanks a lot guys, but unfortunately, my coop caught on fire and burned down my garage. Killed All my pigeons. now i gotta start over again!


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

What was in your loft that could have cought fire? Lights?


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## roller (Oct 25, 2007)

yeah lights... crap! i'm so mad! next time i won't put a light in a coop anymore. but for now i have to stop for awhile, until me and my family find a new place to live because my house is all burnt up! I'm guessing a fox or something try to get in the coop and busted light.which got onto the dry pineneedle ! URG! the thing i'm mad about is my house and the YB kit i just brought!..


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## Fishsean1 (Feb 4, 2008)

Roller, Sorry for your loss!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Grim said:


> I have a breeding pair of red tails that I see near my house daily. Yesterday I had my pair of tumblers out and one of the red tails dove after the male. He quickly evaded the hawk, but the hen seemed really upset and flew off in the distance with the pair of hawks behind her.
> 
> Later that evening she still hadn't returned then as I did a loft check after dark she was up in her corner just fine. Are these hawks really designed to catch pigeons? They seem kind of slow in the air unless they dive, also do they keep out other hawks such as coopers? Anyone else have any experience with red tails and their birds?


Hello Grim,

From my vantage point, I would personally welcome a pair of Red Tails nearby. I have never lost one of my YB racers to a red tail that I know about, however the Cooper's are a different story. My thinking is that the nesting pair of Red Tails would keep the more dangerous hawks away.

This is all rather academic any way, since it's not like you have any choice in the matter. So I would look at the situation in as positive of a light as possible.


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## Tim Rossiter (Oct 24, 2007)

I have Red Tails, Coopers and falcons and they have me at the point were I can't let my birds out. The Red Tails do chase the Coopers but they all eat my pigeons. I have decided to use them as breeders and try and teach the offspring to trap faster. Too late for what's left of my birds. I thought this would be a good hobby for my grandson since I really enjoyed it when I was young but it has turned into a nightmare. The talk of it now depresses him.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Tim Rossiter said:


> I have Red Tails, Coopers and falcons and they have me at the point were I can't let my birds out. The Red Tails do chase the Coopers but they all eat my pigeons. I have decided to use them as breeders and try and teach the offspring to trap faster. Too late for what's left of my birds. I thought this would be a good hobby for my grandson since I really enjoyed it when I was young but it has turned into a nightmare. The talk of it now depresses him.


Man, that sucks. I hope you can do better with some young pigeons. We (knock on wood) don't have much of a hawk problem where we are. All the fanciers around us do, but for some reason, we don't see very many and have lost 5 birds in 6 years. 
If I had to deal with hawks every time I let me birds out, like so many say they do, I'd be done with flying pigeons. Just don't think I could take it day in and day out.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I believe the coopers in my area has moved on. I have not seen one in over 10 days. Plenty of doves are back plus robins crows jays even the brown thashers. I see a few red tails on the hiway. But I believe hawk season is coming to a close for now this year. Here


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2008)

Im hearing you on that subject for sure as I am having the same problem this year and they arent moving on ,the falcons just pass thru from time to time but are hell on the birds, the red tails i can live with being they are slower and my birds can out fly them anyday but the coopers are the worst here and are making it impossible for me to fly my birds anymore ..Even when I keep my birds in for a spell and hope they moved on if I let my birds out they come out of nowhere and take another one  it is very depressing to say the least and how can I even begin to train new ones when I cant even let the old ones out ... ughh talk about a rock and a hard place


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## Tim Rossiter (Oct 24, 2007)

Yeah, I'm not really sure how to train the young birds alone. I know sometimes they get sort mezmerized when they are out for the first time and need the older birds to lead them in. Any tips would be much appreciated.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

Tim Rossiter said:


> Yeah, I'm not really sure how to train the young birds alone. I know sometimes they get sort mezmerized when they are out for the first time and need the older birds to lead them in. Any tips would be much appreciated.


i have attacks from coopers too on several occasions. most of the the birds flew away and never came back. a few that survived became smart that when they arrive from training toss they don't land on the roof but straight to the loft. and they are faster too when they come home. i think that's the only advantage we get from having coopers around. they leave us with smarter birds.


kalapati


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## Tim Rossiter (Oct 24, 2007)

kalapati said:


> i have attacks from coopers too on several occasions. most of the the birds flew away and never came back.
> kalapati


I don't know if I can take those kind of loses. I mean maybe in April/early May I will have six to train. To lose more than three would be about the end. I can't keep them longer or they will be too strong. I guess we'll see what happens. Thanks.

Gotta move my St. Francis statue over to the loft, outside of course!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Tim Rossiter said:


> I don't know if I can take those kind of loses. I mean maybe in April/early May I will have six to train. To lose more than three would be about the end. I can't keep them longer or they will be too strong. I guess we'll see what happens. Thanks.
> 
> Gotta move my St. Francis statue over to the loft, outside of course!





I have not yet left my 2008 YB's out of the loft yet. I'm waiting for more "hawk bait" to move into the area...such as robins and such...strong on the wing birds, are easy to deal with....one simply limits their flying ability by cutting the 9th and 10th flight, or soaping the wings etc. Anyone putting YB's out the last couple of months are simply feeding the hawks or risking a fly off. That is what I use to do, but almost every day Mr. Cooper has been sitting on top of the loft waiting for dinner....so when the enviroment is such, I don't let the birds out.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2008)

I agree , even with the seasoned birds at this time of year its risky letting them out because the coopers by now have honed their skills thru the winter on a feast or famine regimine ..so any unexperianced bird its at an their mercy from the moment they step outside that loft door  i have a handful of babies I have been holding back because of this and Im surely gonna need to soap their wings for sure by the time they get out on that launch pad


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## The Flying Kiwi (Jun 4, 2007)

Hi all,

We have never had to deal with birds of prey around our city so letting birds out has not been an issue *BUT*..........
Since the outskirts of our city is now the fastest growing Vineyard region in our country, they have started looking into ways of keeping pests such as small fruit eating birds away from the vines to protect thier crop. Yes you have guessed what they are now breeding and all the vineyard owners are all excited about the *FALCON!!!!!!* man it upsests me to think that a 3-4yr old pigeon that i have raised nurtured raced lightly ready for the big longdistance race of its life could be after flying 800km be knocked of by one of these Falcons only 50km from home.
Sorry first time i have had a vent about this as there is on point telling anyone else as pigeon racing is smalltime compared to farming around here.

Thank goodness they havent moved into our neighbourhood yet!!!!!!

Kiwi Venting!!!!!


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2008)

mmm there is one thing that I have to say about falcons and that is you are in for a rude awakening if they are whats going to be in your neighborhood , they are relentless and once they are set on your birds there is no stopping them til they get one  if you think your birds are fast ,well you will see what fast really is if a perigrine comes to town ...sorry but its the truth


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Its been over 2 weeks now since I have seen any coopers in town. Now i went about 80 East and saw 2 and 1 eagle and a few other hawks. BUT here the cooopers have left. I was slow getting young birds out Had to wacth hard at first. BUT now there are safe to let out. Maybe soone most areas will get in the spring mode and the coopers will move to there nesting areas.


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