# Baby pigeon with canker



## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

This is the worst day since I started to keep pigeons. In the morning I went to my loft to see the birds, and saw a baby was suffering to breathe. First I thought it was panting but when take the bird by hand, saw a yellowish thing in its throat. I thought it might be food, didn't went to crop due to lack of water. But I found it sticking there, its canker. It took nearly an hour to come out of the shock. I brought Metronidazole tablets. I separated the bird.
Now I will try my best to save the baby. But I am surprised how did that thing appear from nowhere? It was alright just 1 day before!
Should I do something with the parents? If yes, biological parents or foster parents? There is another baby in the same nest bowl. Should I do something for it? I checked its throat, there was nothing.
Please help me guys...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*The parents and foster parents and all birds in contact with the same food and water supply should be treated.

How old are the babies?*


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

The baby is 14-15 days old.
How to treat all the other birds? With the same medicine? For how many days?
I am very worried about the other babies. How is the chance that the other baby in the same nest bowl will get it?
Its biological parents are in another loft and they have just 2 days old babies!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Would be best to get the powder form for flock treatment so you can put it in the drinking water for the birds.

Here is a link with more info on canker: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/canker.htm

How many milligrams are in each tablet of the metronidazole tablets you bought? For individual treatment, dosage amount is determined by weight of the bird.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, the flock will need to be treated, as it can spread through the feed and water, but any sick birds showing signs, will need to be treated individually. So you will need the tablets for them. Adults would get 50 mg once daily for 7 to 10 days, and the babies would get 30 mg once daily for 7 to 10 days. Sometimes it does take a bit longer, so assess after treatment. I would just do the 10 days, then see how it goes.
It didn't really happen suddenly as it seems, there were probably some signs which is easy to miss. Breeding causes stress, stress causes the trich level to go up, which in turn causes canker. The parents will pass it to the babies while feeding. I would treat both babies.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I would also stop breeding completely, as Jay mentions that alone can cause stress and the birds need time to heal completely and build up their immunities. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Skyeking said:


> *I would also stop breeding completely, as Jay mentions that alone can cause stress and the birds need time to heal completely and build up their immunities. *



Good point.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

The baby left me! Perhaps it choked. I have been feeling heartbreaking since morning...
If I treat the other baby (12days), would it affect him/her?
Can I treat the birds that have 3 days old babies in nest? Can it kill or harm the babies?
If there is no sign of canker, should I go as long as 10 days with treatment, or 7 days?
Thanks to all of you for your quick replies. Wish, I could save the life!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you have birds on babies then I wouldn't treat them until they are a couple weeks old anyway. If no symptoms, go the shorter time. I would treat all but the parents with the babies. Hopefully the sibling is stronger and won't come down with it. He will get some med from the parents who are feeding, but it could be just enough of the med to build up resistance to the drug. If it were me, I would take the other baby, treat him and feed him myself, but that is me. Many don't want to take over the care of the babies. Sorry about the one that died. When they are like that, you need to get him out of there, as the parents will keep shoving seeds in, and if the throat is blocked, then they can't go down. It could choke him.

How many birds do you have?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I have total 14 birds, except the 13th day old baby and other 2days old two babies.
9 birds are in the breeding loft where the baby's foster parents are.
Its biological parents, these two are in a different big cage with their two little babies.
Two 2months old pigeon are in a different loft (flying).
And the last one that I brought few days ago is kept in a different cage. I dewormed him last day.

If I treat the other baby(13day) along with its parents, it will get that extra dose of the med from its parents. So, I think it can cause problem to the baby.
So, what's your advice? Should I give the baby little dose?
I understand that feeding it myself would be good, but I haven't handled so little baby earlier. I can manage it while it will become 20 or more days


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wait till night time to medicate the birds, and they won't be feeding the baby during the night. But to do this, you will have to medicate them each individually with tablets, rather then in the water. Or give the baby 25 mg of med rather than 30. It will cut down what he gets somewhat. Or don't medicate the baby, and watch him closely and check him each day to see how he does. He may be fine.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Ok. I think I will go with the idea of medicating at night. And I will cut down the dose of the baby too. I am closely looking at him everyday, and checking his throat twice a day, its clear.
If I give the medicine to a bird that has not the disease, how will it affect him/her? (Cause I don't know who has the disease and who hasn't. Will a treatment without the disease build the immunity in the bird?)

Thanks a lot Jay3. Its only for people like you, we (where vets for pigeon is nearly unavailable) can progress with our winged little friends and are able to keep them happy and healthy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Under stress of any kind, even another illness, the trich level can go up and that is what causes canker. The med will bring the trich level back down. Won't hurt the bird. 
Actually what builds a stronger constitution to the common things like canker is when they don't have to be treated at all. They will get small doses from the parents, and the others in the loft, and build up a resistance to it. But once it does turn into canker, you are better to medicate.

Most pigeons do carry trichomonads, the meds just lower the numbers again, to the point where they are not affecting the bird.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Okay. I started to medicate the birds of the breeding loft yesterday, individually with pill(50 mg).
I am thinking of treating the parents (who have 4days old babies, and are in different cage) after 10 days. Am I right with my thought?
Should I also give medicine to the two 2months old babies who are in another loft with different food and water source?

By the way, what are the early/small signs of canker that can be missed easily (of which you were speaking of earlier)?
Thanks again...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Snehasis Panja said:


> Okay. I started to medicate the birds of the breeding loft yesterday, individually with pill(50 mg).
> I am thinking of treating the parents (who have 4days old babies, and are in different cage) after 10 days. Am I right with my thought?
> 
> Don't know what you mean that they are in a different cage. If they don't share feed or water, then they don't need to be medicated. It is spread in the feed and water, or direct contact, like billing.
> ...


Here are some links on articles about canker. There are many more out there.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm032
http://www.pigeonracingforum.com/health-fitness/canker-t695.html


SYMPTOMS IN SQUABS

Not all these symptoms will be present in each case. The symptoms first appear 6 days after infection.

Visible lump in the neck or navel area.
Stretched skin over site of lesion.
Cheesy growth in mouth or throat.
Patches of baldness around neck and mouth .
Slow blinking
Ruffled feathers
Loose watery droppings
Excessive thirst
Loss of appetite
Loss of weight

Also, the bird will often stretch his head forward and appear to be trying to swallow.
When a baby just doesn't seem well, and has any of these symptoms, it is usually canker as it is so common.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Canker ---------- By Dr. Colin Walker

Canker is an infectious protozoal disease that affects pigeons, doves and other birds. Most pigeons carry the organism in their crop and gullet; because of this adult birds have some immunity but its effectiveness is stress related.

The organism that causes canker is fragile and cannot survive for long outside the digestive tract and associated areas, but it can survive a day in water at 25 degrees C.

It is spread via water, via seed that has been taken up and dropped by an infected bird and by courtship food exchanges between adults. Parent birds will normally pass on small quantities of trichomonads to their young, giving them gradual exposure to the organism which helps them develop some immunity , but if the parent is stressed or has low immunity it can have an overload of trichomonads which - when passed to the youngster - will cause disease.

Canker can block the oesophagus and the exit from the crop, causing death by starvation and dehydration. Prompt treatment is essential.


SYMPTOMS IN ADULTS

Not all these symptoms will be visible in each patient:

Visible lump in neck or vent
Firm yellow or brown cheesy mass in back of mouth
Soft flat creamy white growths in throat
Inability to swallow seed
Mouth may be partially open
Birds stand upright with head high and neck straight (penguin posture)
Crop full of water
Distortion or swelling of forehead (if sinuses have been invaded)
Vomiting
Increased mucous in the throat


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

By 'they are in different cage' I meant that they are not in the same loft and they are in a separated big cage. But I was thinking of medicating them as they are the biological parents of the baby that died. Should I need not to medicate them?
I read the articles through the link. It is helpful. Thanks.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Its the 15 days old baby. Is the growth normal? It was the samller one in the bowl but it is alone now in the nestbowl.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He looks great for his age, and very cute.
Doesn't matter that the parents are the same. They are not feeding him. It is when the parents are stressed that the trich levels, which causes canker, go up. When they feed the youngsters, the babies get too many passed on to them, and so can get sick. You don't want to medicate if not necessary, as normally when fed, a much lesser amount is passed on to the babies. This is what helps them to build resistance to the strain of trich in your loft. They will do this better if not medicated. Let them build their resistance naturally.
Medicating when not needed doesn't make birds stronger, it messes up their system. Only medicate when needed. If there is an outbreak of canker in a loft, it does spread, so a flock treatment is advised.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Medicating a bird without the actual presence of disease is only going to hurt their immune system, you don't use medicine for prevention ONLY for TREATMENT.



Med*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If I have canker in the loft, and 2 or 3 birds come down with it, then I would flock treat them for prevention. I don't need a houseful of sick birds. It doesn't take much to stress certain individuals, and their trich levels rise. They get sick, and pass it on. Even the change in seasons can cause it, especially when the temps suddenly get hot when summer weather comes early. I don't then wait for each one individual to get sick.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Okay, I am not going to give them any medicine. I am giving it only to the breeding loft.
Actually, its the first time when a bird dies and I saw canker in my loft. So I got worried and excited.
Thanks for your guidance...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Canker is one of the most common pigeon diseases. It can be brought on by stress. Many things can cause it. Birds too crowded and therefore under stress, breeding, racing, even change in seasons. Having another illness opens the door to canker. Easy to take care of if you catch and treat it early.


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## naresh j (Jun 27, 2014)

and probiotics help in controlling stress and preventing diseases. you can use a children probiotic sanchet, i use BIFILAC.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Okay. Thanks.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Update:
The baby was treated for 6 days along with the folk. He is fine. He is eating and drinking on his own now. Here's a pic...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would have treated for 10 days, just to make more sure that it was gone.
Cute bird. If the feathers on his face don't grow out, he will need to be treated again.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

By how many days should the feathers of face come out completely? He is now 32 days of age.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When he's over the canker, they should begin to grow out. If he hadn't had canker, those feathers would have filled in already. They are one of the symptoms of canker on a young bird.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Then should I retreat him now? Or, should I wait for something?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When did you stop the treatment? If only a day or so, then I would treat for 4 more days. If it's been several days, then just wait and see if the feathers soon start to grow.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I treated the baby for 6 days and its parents for 7 days.
I stopped the treatment several days ago(nearly 7-8 days).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay then, don't do more. Watch and see how he does. If he shows signs of still being sick, or the feathers don't grow back, then you would have to start the whole treatment over. If that happens, then treat for 10 days. But wait and see how he does.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Okey I will keep a close eye on him.
And thanks for your careful look...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He may be fine. Just keep an eye on him.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

I noticed something white/yellowish thing growing on the baby's beak(lower). I am posting some pics.
Can you identify what it is?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The good news is that his feathers are coming in.
The bad news is that he may have pox. 
Not sure. Is there anything inside the beak in that area? Or just the outside? Is there anything like that anywhere else?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

No, there's nothing inside that area and inside the mouth/throat. I checked him thoroughly, no other thing anywhere.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It may be pox, which is a virus spread by mosquitoes mostly. Nothing you can do for it once a bird catches it, but if that is pox, then he should get more bumps, and they will get larger. If he stops eating or isn't eating and drinking enough, you may have to hand feed him, until he gets through it, which can take several weeks. Keep a watch on him and see if it gets any worse. Please let us know.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Obviously I shall update...
No more bump till now, I am checking it regularly.
Should I separate him?


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

No other thing is there on the baby's body or elsewhere. And the white/yellowish thing is not growing too. He is eating and drinking himself.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Then maybe just a mosquito or insect bite that will go away in time. That would be wonderful. Please watch him and let us know. I hope that is all it is.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Luckily the thing is gone. The bird is ok now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh that's wonderful. Thanks for letting us know that.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Yes, that's wonderful. I was always worried for it.
The bird is a little thin, I think. Should I do something to help it gaining weight?

One more bad thing happened to me. If you remember when I was treating the baby (that was under foster parents), its biological parents have two little babies. One of them died recently. It was sudden to me. After losing the bird that caught canker, I always check babies, inside their throats etc. The bird was fine till 24th or 25th day but the day I found it panting heavily, I checked the bird but there was no sign of canker or any growth inside the mouth. It was very weak, its legs were very weak and thin, I noticed. And it died within 2 hours. Other one is healthy and fine. But I am still unable to recognize the disease.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You could try to feed him a little extra, but I think he will gain the weight in time. If you can give him a little yogurt in his beak for the next few days, it will help put good bacteria in his gut, which helps him to block out the bad bacteria. Will help him with his digestion and everything. 

As far as the poor baby that died, it's kind of hard to say what happened there. Maybe he too had canker and didn't show in throat yet. Don't know what it could have been. I'm sorry he died.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

Ok. I shall give him yogurt. Will 5-7 days be enough?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Snehasis Panja said:


> Ok. I shall give him yogurt. Will 5-7 days be enough?


*You could feed him extra. I want to clarify, that yogurt is not a substitue for food, but should be given in addition to food, as it will also help with weight gain. 

Here is the one I use and have had excellent results with: https://www.heb.com/product-detail/stonyfield-farm-organic-nonfat-greek-plain-yogurt/1501682 

THIS YOGURT HAS THE FOLLOWING CULTURES IN IT, (without those beneficial bacteria it would not help at all). S. thermophilus, L. bulgaricus, L. acidophilus, bifidus and L. Casei. 

Yogurts with just acidophilus, will not have the same results, although they work a little.

I would continue using yogurt until baby is healthy and grown. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't think I've seen that brand around here. Sounds like a good one.


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## Snehasis Panja (Dec 17, 2015)

The product is not available here, I think. I shall search for it.
Thanks for your suggestion.


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