# Tricho plus dosage



## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I have picked up a baby pigeon in very bad shape from the street. A side of his face looks covered by some yellow stuff - it's not pox, I'm not sure in canker can cover the eyes, or he has been pecked/hit by something. He does have a lot of canker in his beak/throat - I need to push the food down his throat. He cannot eat alone, and I'm not sure, but probably not drink either, since he can't keep his beak shut. We have been handfeeding him defrosted peas and concentrates granules, and yesterday I gave him 50 mg of Flagyl (metronidazole). Today, however, I went shopping for some stuff for my pigeons and I also picked up a couple of satchels of Tricho plus, thinking it would be less toxic for him. My question is however about the dosage: doing it like the label says (one satchel in 2 liters of water) sounds very little, especially since he most likely doesn't drink on his own. We give him water by syringe, but I feel that dosage would be too low. I can mix in a little water a stronger dosage and give it to him, but how much?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can you post a photo of the baby? Rather continue with the metronidazole, 40 mg once daily. Meds in the water is not so affective. Instead of syringfeeding him the water, rather try dipping the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils) in a small bowl of water to get him to drink by himself.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Here's some pics I took today, one of his good side and one of his bad one.
I gave him another 50 mg of metronidazole yesterday and he seems to be responding well to it so far. I applied methylene blue and a little metronidazole powder yesterday straight on the lump of canker blocking his beak and throat. He ate on his own today, we woke up later than usual and he already had seed in his crop. We still gave him a few defrosted peas for safe measures and they went down easier than yesterday, we didn't need to push them anymore, he swallowed them on his own. He also scratched his eye and started uncovering it from that yellow crust - it seems the eye is still there, under the lid. We have been applying an antibiotic cream on it since we got him - it's a cream we used on another sick pigeon with great success. In the picture, the gray bit visible where the eye should be is the lid. He was preening himself earlier. His beak is also less open today and he occasionally closes it completely.

The reason we gave him water with the syringe was because his beak was stuck open and he wasn't swallowing anything on his own. We used the syringe to drip the water slowly down his beak. I hope he is also drinking now if he's eating - he's got water with probiotics in it.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I could not view your photos, but it sounds as if he is doing well. Always a good thing when they start eating by themselves.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Trying again with the pics (I can see the ones I posted previously):
https://i.imgur.com/4WLbbpL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gFHKfke.jpg
(use "open in another tab" to not get a blank page).

Tinypic, which I used before on this forum for images, keeps deleting them, so I can't use it.

We arrived home a bit late today, but when we went to feed him, his crop was full - so he ate on his own. The eye was a also a little open. We gave him the antibiotic and a few peas just for the sake of it, and left him to sleep. I'm trusting that if he eats on his own, he also drink on his own, though not a lot of water seemed missing. As far as I know canker causes excessive drinking and watery poops, but his poops are pretty good, and he doesn't seem to drink a lot. We applied that cream on his eye to try to soften those crusts that are stuck in his feathers, but he preened himself and took that cream all over.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Was able to view the photos. Yes, his droppings look good. Continue with the metronidazole and do the full course, just for in case. In the first photo there's a nodule on the beak. Looks like the beginning of pox to me.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

How long should the metronidazole course be normally? I'll check how the inside of his mouth looks before stopping it anyway, he had a lot. He seems to be taking the antibiotic well, he's eating on his own, and his good eye has a focused look. He tried to bite me this morning when I put my hand in his box, and wing slapped me (rather weakly still) this evening. We cleaned his bad eye a little with chamomile tea, and he reacts to movements in front of that eye, so it's functional. 

I don't know what to say about pox, we thought about it too, especially since I'm at a loss of what could be on his face, but a part of it started clearing (the stuff that was covering his eye), and for the rest, it feels the entire side of the head is deformed. He's got a hard lump under his beak that feels like bone. In any case, I'm keeping a tight quarantine on his (washing my hands and changing tshirt every time I handle him), as I own 3 other pigeons. One of them is pox immune, as he's a rescue that had pox when we got him, but the other 2 aren't. We keep the sick pigeon in a box in a locked room. 

I'm glad he's eating on his own, and that he closed his beak some. It's still deformed, the two halves don't come one right on top of the other, but it seems functional. 

Pic from today: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JKnwMxfPbaV5NwqW6 (open in a new tab for pic)

Later edit: I gave him his antibiotic, and checked his throat - it's amazing how much it cleared. On friday it was basically a huge mass almost blocking his throat, and keeping his beak open, now there's a thin sliver of it left, probably a tenth of what it was. Today was his 4th dose. 

He's also eager to leave apparently - as he keeps jumping out of the box. He can fly, a neighbour told me she saw him at her window at 1st floor, and he tried to fly from us a couple of times too.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Glad to hear he is improving. Normally one would give for 7-10 days, sometimes longer. Continue until all those lesions in his beak are gone, check with a flashlight towards the back of his throat to be sure.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

He seems very lively and eager to leave. He refused to sleep in the box, slept on its edge, and spent the day on the window sill watching outside. I had to move him, as my parents in law will be arriving tomorrow and they use that bedroom. I put him in a small balcony that I can close, and he left the box to explore right away. I kinda wish he wouldn't get microbes everywhere, but I can't lock him either, it's too hot. Guess I'll have to give the entire place a disinfection. 

We stopped handfeeding him, he eats and seems to have a healthy appetite, his crop is round and full every evening. I'm still worried about that eye, it still doesn't look a lot better.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

The baby pigeon should have his 10th dose of metronidazole today - my husband is away for few days so I can't check his throat to see if the canker is completely cleared - but I hope I'll be able to check tomorrow. He's weathered the antibiotic really well and is eating on his own, although his beak is still hampering a normal feed.

I'm more worried about the eye, which seems to have a very slow development - I can't even tell if there's been much development over the past few days. This is a picture taken today (open in a new tab)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nEc85J4PWQTn23bt7

I don't know why he doesn't fully open that eye, it doesn't seem hampered by anything anymore. I don't know what is the hardened part of his beak that prevents him closing it properly and if it's ever going to go away. I'm worried of his eye getting worse once he's off antibiotics.

Other than that, he's a lively and gentle bird. Accepts his antibiotic readily and spends all day on top of a shelf in that balcony I keep him in. I've put a tray with water yesterday, and he had his chest damp at some point in the morning, so I think he took a little bath, his first.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

He looked a bit off yesterday, I found him sleeping hidden in a shelf lower. Maybe it was the weather, it rained, and I also got home late. Seemed more lively today.

Problem is, that hardened part on the side of his beak is coming off. It cracked in the upper part and you can see between it and the head and it looks horrible. He almost has a hole in his head. I cleaned his eye - which he still doesn't open completely, and I put antibiotic cream in that crack, but gotta say it makes my stomach clench seeing the horror in that crack. He stayed to care for him almost like a human, flinching only when I accidentally touched the eye, and leaning his head towards me. 

I contacted a vet that I went occasionally at with my pigeons to see him tomorrow, as I was pretty worried this morning that that swelling looked bigger - it's not, it just looks like that because it is coming apart from the rest of the head. I was thinking he could try cleaning him - he did that before for a maimed pigeon I cared for, as I don;t have the heart to pull too hard - but seeing the thing coming off tonight I'm thinking it's probably not a good idea to force it open, and just hope he will grow some flesh in that hole. I'll still take him to the vet tomorrow, as I had already scheduled an appointment.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Poor thing. Is the upper beak coming lose from the head? What did the vet suggested?


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I just came back with him from the vet. I honestly don't know if I did this bird a favour by picking him up from the street.

The vet said that crust on the side of the head is necrotic, and removed a large part of it - said it's only an infection danger. You can literally see in its throat now. The breathing channel from that side doesn't exist anymore. He only removed the part on the upper beak, as that had started to come loose, the lower part will also need removing, but at the moment it is still firmly attached and it could have unhinged his beak. I honestly hope it still has a functional lower beak. They cleaned the place, and prescribed me some antibiotic drops for the eye and hole in the face to give him twice a day, told me to put him back on metronidazole for another 2 weeks (I stopped giving him after 10 days, which was 2 days ago), also advised me to change his water often, and be careful not to have flies in the place he stays. Also told me to give him a little bit of yeast. He was pretty impressed that he's eating alone and he thinks some blow was involved too to cause that kind of damage.

I cared for a bird with a nasty case of pox, and I thought I'll not see a bird that looks worse mutilated, but this one proved me wrong. Even in this state, he preened himself on the way home, and went to eat shortly after we arrived and I put the antibiotic drops in his eye/wound. I'll have to give him metronidazole later, and I have no idea how I'll gather the heart to pry open that beak, considering how much is missing of it. The upper part is somewhat ok (well..as it doesn't look like it will come off), its the lower part that worries me more.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can be glad you have such a nice vet, mosts vets would have suggested having him put down. If you did not rescue him, he would have died a horrible death out there on the streets. Just take things one day at a time. A good sign that he is eating and preening himself.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I don't think vets here suggest putting birds down unless you ask it of them, and even then they might not have a procedure for it. 
The reason I'm so bleak is because if they have to remove as much from his lower beak as they did on the upper (and they did not remove anything that was remotely salvageable, I looked at it, and it was just puss and dead stuff) - and it looks like they will have to, I'm not sure he will be able to feed himself anymore. Right now the dead part is probably helping him pick food. The doctor also expressed concern that the necrosis might have gone down to his esophagus, and suggested an xRay next meeting. 

Right now he is lively, eats and preens, flies as much as the small space he is contained as he can. He moved his sleeping spot from the top of that shelf to a ladder near the door where a pigeon of mine used to sleep, before he moved in my room. I've been putting those antibiotic drops in his eye twice a day as prescribed, but the eye not gets a white film it didn't get before. It does get washed off when I put the drops again.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Picture from tonight: he keeps getting seed stuck to that wound and the fact I have to clean them constantly isn't helping the scabbing. Don't open it if you're a sensitive nature, it's not pretty. The eye seems more red and gets a cloudy film on it since those drops too. They are called Tobrex.

https://i.imgur.com/fSXKs5W.png

It's just heartbreaking because he eats and seems so lively otherwise.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Poor thing. Are you still putting ointment on the beak? Maybe that's why the seeds are getting stuck.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I am not putting that ointment anymore, the vet prescribed some antibiotic drops for the eye and said to put some of it on the wound too - but that doesn't make a lot of difference. The wound itself is wet and sticky from the scarring, and small seed get stuck in it. I'm cleaning them in the morning and in the evening, but every time he eats he gets them. I managed to sift the small seed today, and I'll see how that goes. This morning he was pacing in front of the window like trying to get out. The eye looked better today, wasn't red and hadn't made that cloudy film anymore.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

What is it with pigeons and polystyrene?
I managed to solve the small seed stuff (I'm sifting them out before giving them, and haven's seen any more seed stuck to his beak today) but he started eating polystyrene from the wall. The wall was painted , but my pigeons started pecking it a while ago and it has places where the white beads are visible...and he's taken a great interest in them.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Well, I guess we are now at the worst. 

This morning I noticed his beak even more lopsided, and it looked like he would deffo not be able to grab any seed so I sent a message to the vet with a picture, asking when it would be opportune to clean the rest of the necrotic tissue, since I assumed it was what was causing the beak to go like that. I started reapplying that cream this weekend to help with it softening. To my surprise, he had removed it himself today, and the view is...bad. I watched him trying to eat with very little success (he managed to swallow maybe 1/10), but I guess it's good he keeps trying. I sent some pictures to the vet and he thinks he will adapt in time, but also thinks he needs some help with feeding now - so we fed him this evening. It's pretty hard to do, as he broke open the scab on his upper beak, and its again raw. He struggled so much, it was obviously we are hurting him, but he had scant little in his crop and he is still on antibiotics. Eventually we had to just put food down his throat through the hole in his side. I managed to give him about 10 peas and 10 bits of concentrate - which I know is not enough, but he was struggling too much after those. 
https://i.imgur.com/r8qcd43.jpg


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just horrible! Poor pigeon! Is he able to drink water at least? I don't know if this will work, but you can give it a try: If you can get hold of formula (second choice will be porridge without added sugar and milkproducts) you can mix this with water, don't make it too thick. Offer this to him, he might drink it and will at least get some food in. Mix a little bit of peanutbutter (a brand that has no sugar) in the food as well to make it taste good. Sprinkle some small seeds on top to get him interested.

Hopefully he will adapt. Give him time during the day to practise eating seeds and only forcefeed him in the evenings. You will notice by the droppings he produce if he is eating by himself or not.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I can feed him peas (defrosted or dry) and I've also given him concentrated granules (the kind you give to chicken to fatten them). He is trying to eat by himself and while the success rate is low, I did see him succeed. I am not gonna risk feeding him just once per day for now, and will do it in the morning and evening, so he stays strong at least while he is still on the antibiotic. While it's pretty horrible, the easiest way to feed him now seems to be putting food in that hole on the side of his face. I did find the piece he broke off - sadly it is literally a quarter of his beak. I don't know if it could have been saved somehow. I wish he'd stop scratching and getting that nose scab broken. 

I don't know if he drinks by himself, it could be indeed a problem. I know pigeons drink by sucking water so maybe he can do it from a deep enough bowl - and he has that. I'll make sure he gets water too when I feed him. 

All in all, as said, I don't know if I did this bird any favor by keeping him alive, given the extent of the damage on him. I guess at least he wasn't subjected to death by starvation, although probably the canker would have done it faster.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Saphira said:


> I can feed him peas (defrosted or dry) and I've also given him concentrated granules (the kind you give to chicken to fatten them). He is trying to eat by himself and while the success rate is low, I did see him succeed. I am not gonna risk feeding him just once per day for now, and will do it in the morning and evening, so he stays strong at least while he is still on the antibiotic. While it's pretty horrible, the easiest way to feed him now seems to be putting food in that hole on the side of his face. I did find the piece he broke off - sadly it is literally a quarter of his beak. I don't know if it could have been saved somehow. I wish he'd stop scratching and getting that nose scab broken.
> 
> I don't know if he drinks by himself, it could be indeed a problem. I know pigeons drink by sucking water so maybe he can do it from a deep enough bowl - and he has that. I'll make sure he gets water too when I feed him.
> 
> All in all, as said, I don't know if I did this bird any favor by keeping him alive, given the extent of the damage on him. I guess at least he wasn't subjected to death by starvation, although probably the canker would have done it faster.


If his quality of life is an issue then yes, keeping him alive may not be the kindest thing. But you are his rescuer and we are not there, so it is your call, and I wouldn’t judge you either way.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I do not mind feeding him until he adapts and even offering him a home for the rest of his life (although with 2 other males in an apartment, that life might not be the easiest if he is also a male). But I really wonder if he CAN adapt. I found the part he broke off himself, it's literally half of his lower beak. I will not be able to be there every day of the rest of his life for him - I sometimes need to travel, for work or holiday - and if he can't feed himself, what will he do? The doctor told me he he will adapt, but I really don't know if that is really possible. Has anybody seen a pigeon with this kind of damage managing?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I've read about pigeons with the upper beak missing that were able to learn to eat by themselves. Put down a deep seed dish for him, hopefully he will figure out to scoop up the seeds with part of his lower beak and be able to swallow them.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I did read about same last night and I prepared for him a deep bowl, with a shape less spill-prone. To my joy, his crop was reasonably firm when we checked him tonight and we decided not to torture him with feeding anymore. We did feed him this morning, and it was a pretty horrible experience. He struggles a lot and with that beak looking so fragile, we're afraid to grab too forcefully. I just gave him his antibiotic and some honeyed water and let him sleep. I did see him eat from the bowl this morning and in the afternoon and he seems to have gotten the idea of sinking his head in it deeply.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

That's great news!


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Well, he seems to be eating, and my husband said he saw him drinking too yesterday. Problem is, he wants to get out. He's pacing in front of the window, trying to go through it, and that is not in the cards for him, possibly ever.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Maybe he will settle down and adapt when you introduce him to your other pigeons. I really hope that he turns out to be a female.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

I took him out of the little balcony where he was quarantined so far - under supervision (I hope 3 weeks quarantine is safe enough, since today are 3 weeks since we have him). My mated male went to check things out and did a little dance, then i scowled at him and he went back to his wife (they are in lovey dovey week). I took my single male and he looked confused, sang a little and buggered off. Little guy checked around a bit, tried to peck some seed off the floor (and failed), then went back to his place. Eventually he established himself on top of the door, and I took him down when I gave him his antibiotic and put him to sleep.

He seems to be favoring a leg a bit, I wonder when and how he managed to hit that. Nothing looks off, he walks, just seems to favor it a little. 

I'm not letting him unsupervised, I don't want him to get bitten/beaten. My mated male is quite territorial.

I do wish little one was a female, but looking at his posture and such, I don't think he is.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Decided to let him out today too, since I am home with a cold. He seems to be defending himself fine, he even ruffled at my mated male and chased him away (his face might have done the trick rather that his scrawny self). He wandered the house a little, bumped against the kitchen window in an attempt to get out, and then I caught him and took him back to the balcony to try convince him to eat, as I had not seen him doing it. He settled dejectedly on the door and just snoozed, looking miserable.

Then some feral pigeons came at my window and I gave them some seed to see what he does. He came down from the door, trying to peck with them (I have grates at the window, large enough spaced for them to stick their heads out). I decided to get his seed bowl there - and he proceeded in eating with the others (they can stick their heads inside in the bowl too). They left now, but he's still eating.


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Although my baby pigeon still frets in front of the window trying to escape every day, he started exploring the house for 2 days (I encouraged him a little). So far my other pigeons did not attack him. My husband told me he took a long bath yesterday, after seeing my other pigeons bathing. That would be his first. Yesterday I saw him staying for a while on the wardrobe door where my mate-less pigeon - Blue is sleeping usually, and to my surprise, Blue didn't seem to mind, he was just cooing inside the wardrobe. Today the little one went briefly in the wardrobe, though on the other side of the shelf from Blue and Blue still didn't mind him. 

I'm worried about his eye. Even if I've been putting some antibiotic drops in it every day, it doesn't seem to heal properly, and in the last few days it looks a little swollen. 
Is there any solution that would help? I'm glad it's finally open, but I don't like that swelling. 
https://i.imgur.com/s9LWXv1.jpg (open image in another tab)
(we cleaned the seed at his beak after the pic, they sometimes get a little stuck).


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## Saphira (Sep 2, 2017)

Pepper - as I baptized the little crooked beak pigeon has gotten used to living indoors, but the beak has gotten even more scissored than in the start, and the eye on that side is always a little ragged. Pepper eats, preens and bathes on his own.

I still don't know its gender, but Honey - my hen seems to be the only one that has a problem with Pepper. They sometimes quarrel and while Pepper seems to be holding his (her?) ground, I'm always worried about him/her getting hurt. Is quarelling with another hen a sign that Pepper could also be a hen? He/she follows my single male pigeon around, and twitches his wings at him, but he doesn't seem interested (while calling for a wife all day long). Honey is usually really shy.

Is there anything I can do about the scissored beak?


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