# Injured supermarket pigeon, urgent help, please!



## atete (May 18, 2012)

Today, I came back home and my block had a sudden black out. Sitting
in the dark was not fun. I decided to went out to the little
supermarket a block away, where they had an autonomous power supply,
just for fun. When I came there, non the corner, there was a huge
white cat. It was chasing a pigeon, which did not fly up, but kept
running along the parking lot. I chased the cat away and went after
the pigeon. Several days ago, I potted a very ill youngster around my
area, so I had a little cloth in my bag. It proved very useful,
because I caught that running pigeon with it. I turned it round, and
saw that the pigeon had only half of its head, the rest was severed!
I was so scared, I let the bird go. I then caught it again and saw
that the half of the head was an optical illusion, with the dark and
a little light from the supermarket autonomous power supply. I got
the bird and wrapped it in my towel. Then we walked around the
supermarket, the bird in the towel and behind my lapel. When we got
home, I sat the bird on the towel on the top of the stove to war it
up. Then I boiled some water, added apple vinegar and sugar to it. I
gave the water to the bird after 40 minutes. It drank. Then I gave it
some metronidazole. Then I fed it some dog food, dissolved in water to
make it porridge-like. The bird smells, so I suspect canker (can't
see with the bad light right now). Also, from the beak, I think it
has pox. When I fed it and opened its beak, the pox bled (I didn't
squeeze it or such). Also, there is blood under the left wing. I
can't tell if it's an injury.
Please, people, we need your help. There are no rehabbers and vets
where I live, but I am very willing. I can get things from human
pharmacies, and from exotic pet stores (they cater mostly for
parrots). Please, help us and don't say "go to a rehabber", because
there are none here.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Photos:


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Poor baby, it does look rough. Could you boil some water and add salt, stir it in well then wait for it to cool and use it to wipe its beak and wounds.

If you can get antibiotics try for an amoxycillin clavunate combination, or Baytril. You could also try to get chloramphenicol eye drops for its eye. Once you know the strength of the meds you get we can work out the dosage.


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## uppala009 (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi ATETE

I dnt have much idea in this case. But pictures would helpful to suggest.

Mean while check this link....

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/basic-life-saving-steps-9457.html

Some experienced will respond soon but pics needed.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi people, also, I've found a wound on it s wing, that was why it
could not fly away from me or the cat. I hand-fed the bird, and it
wiggled, and I ended with a lot of blood on my clothes. Please, tell
me if I would buy some medicines or creams, antiseptics? Please, also,
tell me he human equivalents, to get in human pharmacies.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you still have baytril?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

As Feefo said, boil water and salt, let it cool and wash the wounds with it, wherever you see bleeding. If the bleeding doesn't stop put some corn flour, or flour.
Apply on the wound on the body or legs (not beak) any antibiotic ointment available.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Until you get eye antibiotic, you can boil water with camomile tea and put warm compress on the eye ( no need to push hard).
Thank you for rscuing the pigeon. He will survive if you have antibiotic to give oral. Cat bites and saliva are deadly for pigeons.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thank you for helping this bird! You are off to a good start.

It is hard to tell how much of the eye issue is injury, and how much might be pox -- I suspect a lot of it is injury -- I'm guessing the cat had already gotten to it before you did.

If you can get the human drug Cipro, that would be great -- the avian equivalent is Baytril. If not cipro, then amoxicillin or cephalexin will work, too -- I'm not sure what you have available to buy easily, but the sooner the better with the antibiotic. We can help you figure out the dosing.

Good call with giving the canker medication -- if it smells, there's a good chance it does have canker. 

Sterile saline solution is generally the best wound wash ... and some antibiotic ointment would also be good for the surface wounds (something like Neosporin).

Can you take a picture of the wound under the wing (without causing the bird too much distress?)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If you still have the 10% baytril from the bird earlier this year, you can give this bird a couple of drops, down the throat. If you don't have any, at least you know where to get it. I'm still amazed you can get it over the counter.
I agree,,, I think it's a good call to treat the pigeon for canker with metronidazole. If it's the 250mg pill you are using, cut it into 5 pieces and give him a piece each day for probably 10 days...maybe longer.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi people, thank you for your advice. I photographed the wing.
I got baytril in a vet pharmacy, they said it was for chickens. 
It's in glass capsules.
Should I still get other aintbiotics?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Is the Baytril for injection? Often that is what the glass capsules mean. How is it dosed?

It doesn't matter about it being for chickens ... that's fine -- but if it is the injectable solution you'll either need to inject it (not a bad idea if you know how to do that) or mix up a suspension of it to give orally. A lot of poultry people do this -- so I know it can be done-- but it does need to be made into a suspension if given orally.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi people, I got amoxicillin in capsules (500 mg, 16 capsules).
Could not get the eye drops, no one even heard about such.
Could not get Neosporin, no one heard of that, but got instead
Levomecol - an ointment against wound infections, so they told me in
human pharmacy.
Unfortunately, I can't give injections.
Chicken people said to dissolve baytril in water and give a bird to
drink (but they meant chickens, of course).


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Now, about that wing (or, partial lack thereof) --

From what I can tell from the photograph, this looks like a compound fracture just below the wrist joint, and a partial loss of the bird's wing. 

Since bird joints can be hard to visualize, I am going to point you to a couple of diagrams.

On this one, see the area that is labeled "carpometacarpal" -- that is the area of bone that I think we are seeing. 

http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/art-52981/A-diagram-shows-the-skeleton-of-a-pigeon

On this diagram, look at the area labeled #5 ...

http://fsc.fernbank.edu/Birding/skeleton.htm

I believe there is a break in the #5 bone, and that the bird has lost the area below that (#6 and #7 -- essentially, it's hand.) 

Can you purchase Metacam where you are? (or meloxicam or Mobic, for humans?) That is a pain killer and anti-inflammatory that is safe for birds, and I think this guy is going to need it. (Someone can help you dose it if you get the human version) If you can buy Baytril at a pharmacy, you may also be able to get Metacam already in a veterinary solution. 

I've never worked with this exact type of injury before, so I am hoping there's someone here who has ---


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Okay -- so it is a water soluble solution of Baytril -- that's good. Did they say how much of it to use per gallon of drinking water? Or, are there any markings on the bottle about the dosage?


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

chloramphenicol eye drops are a antibiotic eye drop . I found several other types of antibiotic eye drops by googling it. Here is one I found that might help it was on dr foster and smiths vet web site. Saline eye drops will help soothe the eye till you can get those drops. 
Triple Antibiotic Ophthalmic Ointment is a combination of three antibiotics: Neomycin, Polymyxin B, and Bacitracin. It is used to treat bacterial infections of the eyes and eyelids.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

It looks like the dosage for Baytril is the same (per kg of bodyweight) for chickens as it is for pigeons, so you can mix up the Baytril according to the directions for drinking water, as long as the bird is drinking on its own -- at least for right now. 

I don't know what time it is for you, but it is the middle of the night, here -- so my suggestion for tonight would be to give the bird the Baytril in its water, and you can work out more direct dosing tomorrow. At least that will get some antibiotics in its system as soon as possible. 

Make sure this poor guy is warm and contained -- and clean the wounds as best you can. 

It looks like the ointment you got contains chloramphenicol, which is good -- it also contains another component that I'm not familiar with called methyluracil, which is an anti-inflammatory, and it appears to be a steroid. I'm not familiar with that product, so I don't know how safe it is or isn't for birds....


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

You might see if you can find Garamycin eye drops at the vet pharmacy -- those are used for most animals I think. They are also antibiotic drops.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi people, thank you all for your help.
Baytril, you open a capsule and dump it into half a liter of boiled
cooled water. Then give in to drink and it's good for 48 hours, if
kept in a fridge. Then you pour it out and make a new one.
Meanwhile I have a problem. The bord does not eat by itself. I
covered it in towel and hand-fed it. It tried to bite me, and to
wiggle, I let it free and it became very agitated, flapped the wings
and started bleeding copiously. It happened twice. The second time it
tried to escape. Then it dropped on one side and could not get up. I
collected it and cleaned it again, then - the same story. Suddenly or
when it sees me, it gets scared, flaps the wings, started bleeding. I
tried to secure the wings with a cloth, but the bird wiggled out
furiously and bled again. What should I do?


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

You need to secure it better.......wrapped in a cloth or towel, held firmly keeping the wings against the body so it can't struggle. You can hold it on your lap and at the same time use you hand to open the beak so that you can feed it peas or other food. However, this may be difficult if you are not used to it (but easy with practice). In that case if you have one person hold the bird the other can open the beak and force feed it (I am assuming this is needed as you entioned the bird is not eating on its own?). If you get a secure grip it will not be able to struggle free. Don't worry, he can't hurt you by biting and as long as you are not squeezing you are not hurting him.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

it's not the problem, Woodnative. I fet it all right. Then I sat it free, it started flapping the wings, and then bleeding. It did not drink, so I brought the saucer, and it drank, and then started attacking the saucer, flapping its wings, and then bleeding again.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Atete 

First off, I am glad that the bird drank -- that got some of the baytril into the system. You probably are going to need to keep hand feeding it for a while.

This bird is in pain, and it's scared, so it is going to need to be kept contained in a way that it can't flap and re-injure itself.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Let's talk about the wing situation ...

Am I right about the bottom part of the wing being missing? Is that actually exposed bone we are seeing? I'm not positive, just from looking at the photo... it may have just lost a lot of feathers, and the blood could be coming from broken blood feathers and a bad skin wound. If you can possibly get more photos of the wing -- especially the area underneath it the wing -- that would really help. 

How bad is the wound underneath the wing? Are both wings injured, or just one?

I think you are going to need to wrap the wing so that the bird can't move it, but you want a wrap that you can remove easily to clean the wound, too. 

If there are broken blood feathers, that is going to continue to bleed out until the feathers are pulled -- but we need to know what we are dealing with. 

I'll see if I can find a good tutorial on wing wrapping...


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Please, help again. Rage was doing fine. I have him metronidazole and
baytril. He had his course, and was alert enough, but could not eat
on his own, because he lost a part of his beak. I hand-fed him.
Today, he regurgitate all the food he ate yesterday, and then
vomited. At first, I thought that maybe I overfed him. I did not give
him any food. He drank some water, and pecked on some grit. Now, he
vomited again. He is alert, not fluffy and otherwise seems healthy.
There are no vets here, so, please, help, what should I do?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Please, help people, it vomitied and regurtiate all the food today again.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Okay, vomiting can be caused by quite a few things -- including metronidazole -- though I doubt that is the whole problem here.

Is his crop emptying all the way??? This is a really important question. Don't feed him again until it is completely empty. 

Is there any sign of yellow or white in his mouth or throat? I know you've been giving metronidazole, but there still could be canker, or yeast, or both. Any smell to the bird's breath? How are the droppings?

The more info you can give, the more help people can be. 

If the crop isn't emptying, I'd suggest adding a little apple cider vinegar into his water (about a teaspoon to a gallon of water) and also feeding him a little bit of warm applesauce, and then massaging the crop. 

I'm thinking he may have a yeast infection that is causing the crop not to empty fully, but without more to go on, that's just a guess. 

Also, what is the deal with the wing? Is that really exposed bone? If it is, we may have other things to be concerned about too.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

All the food Ragy eats ends in his poop, or else is vomited.
He is off metronidazol for a week already, can it be the cause?
The crop seems empty.
He drinks a lot.
I opened his beak, no signs of anything strange (yellow, or bumps).
He does seem to breathe strangely sometimes, like whistling.
It was an open broke wing. I fixed it with adhesive plaster. People
said that it was cruel to attach it to his feathers, but I went
around to about 5 vets, some of them very expensive, and they never
even heard about that bandage which does not stick to feathers.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Poop:


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

That dropping does look bad -- sometimes you see stringy urates like that with yeast infections, which can also cause vomiting. It's pretty common for them to get yeast infections after being treated with antibiotics. 

It also may well still have canker, which can be very hard to get rid of, and you don't necessarily see it in the throat (it can be anywhere in the digestive tract or adjoining areas.)

What are you feeding the pigeon?

Does the vomit have a sour smell to it at all? Or the droppings? Or the bird's breath?

I'm tending to think this is a yeast problem -- can you get Nystatin where you live? Or, better yet, diflucan?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The whistle sound with the breathing also doesn't sound good. If you put the bird up to your ear, can you hear anything when it breathes? (Listen to its beak, as well as its back) 

I'm still a little concerned that there was bone exposed -- bone can become infected. 

The metronidazole isn't causing the vomiting, if the bird has been off it for a while. Something else is wrong ... probably canker, yeast, or both. This may, or may not, be the reason for the whistle sound -- that may be something else altogether.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Thank you very much for your help.
I didn't notice any sour smell, not yet.
I have human nystatin at home, 500. I am not sure about the other
pills.
Should I give him nystatin?
I thought maybe it was e.coli, but could not understand how it could
be, because he was on baytril before. Should I put him on baytril as
well?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Can you write down the dosing as it is stated on the Nystatin? I'm not sure what the 500 refers to -- but yes, Nystatin is a good idea.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I thought about E Coli too, but as you said, since he was on Baytril, that's unlikely ..


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

500 units in one pill. I thought - a quarter of a pill?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi minimonkey, you were a huge help.
That is what I found:
"Treating pigeons with ‘Baytril’, even healthy ones, for more than 4 days almost invariably causes a yeast infection (often called ‘thrush’). There are always low numbers of yeasts in the bowels of pigeons. Their numbers are kept in check by the normal ‘good’ bacteria in the bowel. ‘Baytril’ kills many of these. With nothing to keep them in check, the yeasts quickly multiply up leading to the development of green and sometimes watery droppings and potentially a loss of race form. "
Though Rage was on baytril for 4 days only.
I gave him nystatin. Then had to go out, came back, and found out that he vomited
everything again. He ate peas 2 days ago, and he is still vomiting
peas! I hoped at least he would stop vomiting. He is very hungry but
can't keep anything down. I added apple cider vinegar to his drinking
water. He still drinks a lot.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

That's a very heavy dose of nystatin, but it can't really be overdosed since it stays in the digestive tract and doesn't absorb into the body. 

If he is still vomiting peas from two days ago, his crop isn't emptying right. Give him a little warm applesauce, and massage the crop gently. The apple cider vinegar is good in the water. Don't feed him again (except a little applesauce) until that crop empties out completely. 

You need to get the crop to empty -- that's a very dangerous situation for the bird. 

How long did you have him on the Metronidazole? I'm wondering if this is canker. If he only had a few days of metronidazole, then canker may well still be a problem. What does were you giving -- and do you still have some left?

If Rage only got 4 days of Baytril, he may still have a bacterial infection -- 4 days isn't a full course of treatment, and isn't long enough to eradicate an infection.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi Minimonkey, 
he was on metronidazole for 11 days. He is called rage, because he is
constantly enraged. When he came first, he bled copiously, and yet
still tried to attack me and to growl at me. He could not growl at
all, he just made some hoarse sounds. On about ninth day, he started
growling normally, like a good pigeon should. So, I gave it for two
mode days, and then let him be. He was doing well, trying to eat (
his beak went off, so he can't), even trying to eat his grit,
cleaning himself, staring out of the window. His poop was greenish
but I thought it because he ate peas. I check and check his crop, and
it appears to me empty. There is a little bulge, but very small,
maybe a pea size.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

is too much really? I got it from here:
Name: Nystatin (many commercial preparations) 


Description: Nystatin is a polyene antifungal antibiotic. 
Usage: crop candida (yeast) overgrowth. 
Adverse reactions: None reported. 
Dosage: 100,000 units per bird (50,000 for youngsters) daily until 48 hours after signs are gone. 
Comments: Very good product for candida (thrush) overgrowth. 
http://www3.telus.net/npaw/gchf03.html


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Maybe I am confused about the dosing, Atete -- the way the units are written out is a bit unclear to me. Let me see if I can find more clarity --

In any event, nystatin is a safe drug because it isn't absorbed into the body. 

Is the nystatin helping at all?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Not much, minimonkey, because Rage's crop is full, and I can't flush it. I put a warm sock with hot salt on it, and massaged and waiting what will happen next. Also, constantly give water with apple cider vinegar.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Okay, actually, it looks like you are right -- the nystatin 500 has 500,000 iu per pill. So a quarter of that is 125,000 iu -- which isn't a lot more than many formularies recommend. 

That should probably be okay, especially if there's a lot of yeast present.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

minimonkey said:


> Okay, actually, it looks like you are right -- the nystatin 500 has 500,000 iu per pill. So a quarter of that is 125,000 iu -- which isn't a lot more than many formularies recommend.
> 
> That should probably be okay, especially if there's a lot of yeast present.


Thank you for checking.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

How full is it? Is it from feeding, or is it full with fluid?

You're doing the right things for him at the moment. I really hope it helps.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

I think it's full with the old food, from 2 days ago. I don't understand it, how it stays in, because Rage poops a lot.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Also, I am very confused about apple sauce. They said - no fruit, because it contains sugar, and yeast thrives on sugar.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

In general, fruit does feed yeast, but applesauce (the unsweetened kind if you can get it) changes the Ph of the crop, and helps it to move old food out. 

I'm glad the bird is still pooping ... that's hopeful. If you can't find applesauce without sugar, then just stick with the apple cider vinegar (add a bit more to the water) , and keep massaging the crop gently. As long as he's pooping, something is coming out. 

Do you know how to tube feed? If you do, I can walk you through the procedure for flushing the crop.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Also, when you feel the crop, does it have solids in it, or mostly liquid? Sometimes if a crop infection gets going, fluid can build up in the crop, even if the bird isn't taking in more food. 

How are the droppings now? Are solids coming out, or just liquids?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Thank you for your continual unwavering support, minimonkey.
I read about flashes, and I am afraid to do them. If I could see
someone else doing it first, or maybe practice. And, this morning,
there was an improvement in Ragy. I let him for the night in
the kitchen with the heating on. He threw up again, and a lot this
time. Yet, he is wonderfully alert. He runs around the windowsill. He
growled at me when I came to clean his beak. I made him a perch, he
never used it before, and was afraid of it, now he hops on and off
it. He tries to peck corn seeds (he can't on account of his beak). He
even tried to fly! He is more active than he was before this illness.
And yet, I can still feel his crop. He poops. I am not sure what to
do now. I want to wait for several hours, then give him nystatin, and
then feed him an hour later. Because he is very light and thin. But,
I am not sure. I add apple cider vinegar to everything, even the
apple sauce. And I gave him crushed garlic in powder, so he now
stinks with garlic!


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Poop:


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Well, that's definitely poop! And I am really, really glad to hear that Rage is feeling better. It's probably good that he vomited out some of the rest of what was in the crop. 

It's hard to tell color in a photo, but that yellow bit on the poop looks troubling -- I think there is a good chance your bird still has canker, which can cause a lot of crop problems. 

Did you happen to worm this bird? If not, that's something to consider -- be aware that some wormers are toxic to pigeons, so if you decide to use one, please consult with us first about which one to use. Worms can clog up the digestive system pretty badly as well as causing weight loss. 

I know it's scary to withhold food when a bird is thin, but it's really important to let the crop empty completely before feeding anything else, except maybe a tiny bit of apple sauce. We also need to figure out why the crop is so slow to empty. 

I totally understand being afraid to do crop flushes if you've never done one before-- I just had to do a few this past week, when a bird I'm treating was having similar issues. 

Keep up with the nystatin, and the apple cider vinegar in the water. 

Do you know how to tube feed? If you do, it really might be a good idea to feed only liquids for a few days (bird formula). 

Also, did the vomit have a smell to it at all? How much appears to still be left in the crop?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The garlic is also a good idea -- though it can cause nausea if they are already having digestive problems. Keep up with the crop massages, and also keep him where it is warm -- that really helps the crop get moving.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi minimonkey,
I am really new to it, so I know very little. I read about tube
feeding, and that is all. I never even consider worming. I thought
that baytril was for this. Do you think I should worm Rage? If yes,
with what? I'd be afraid to start on metronidazole again now, because
antibiotics give yeast infections. We are going to have another warm
sock now.
That was one big poop, followed with little poops, a dark green
substance in the centre, and milky gluey whites around.
And, sometimes it feels like crop is getting smaller, and sometimes,
for me, it seems that it's the same. Especially now, when Rage is
active and sticks his neck out. Then, the crop almost disappears.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Don't worry about being new to this -- we all start somewhere! You got a pretty tough case to learn with!

If you've never tube fed before, it's probably best not to try for the first time with this bird, since he's already having so many problems. 

Do you know how to really find the crop, and feel it? It goes down pretty far, to where the chest bone sticks out, and also over almost to the "armpit" of the wings -- a lot of people don't realize how big the crop really is. when a bird is very thin, it can be a bit hard to figure out where to feel, too. 

Baytril isn't a wormer, it's an antibiotic (a very good one). Metronidazole has some antibiotic properties, but also works against protozoa, which is what causes canker. Metronidazole isn't as prone to causing yeast infections as many antibiotics are ... and I think there's a good chance your bird still has canker -- especially with the description of milky, gluey whites along with the droppings. 

Was this a particularly big poop tonight? If so, it may be that the crop is finally starting to move. When the crop is really empty, it'll feel flat, with a little ridge up the middle. 

I do think worming him would be a good idea, after the worst of the crop issues are resolved. I would suggest continuing with the nystatin, and also starting the metronidazole again. I don't know what you have available to you in terms of medications where you are -- but I think Ivermectin is available almost everywhere, and it is a safe and fairly broad spectrum wormer. 

I'd suggest giving the metronidazole again, too -- for maybe another week, and keep giving the nystatin. If you can keep him in the kitchen or warmest part of the house, that would be great -- and the warm socks are great.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

When you get a chance, if you could post a picture of the beak and the wing, I'd like to have a look at them. 

You're doing a lot for this bird, and he's really lucky that you found him!!


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

minimoneky, I've been typing with one finger, holding Rage with the
sock with my left hand. Strangely, his vomit and poop did not stink
particularly bad. Especially the vomit. Rage is drinking much less,
too, he used to drink like an elephant.
The sock got colder, so I released him on the windowsill, where he
pooped a huge poop, unfortunately, not as good and solid as on the
photo above. Then I touched his crop, and it felt miraculously flat!
But, a couple of minutes later, I touched again, it felt like stuffed
again. I know where the crop is, I am not sure how large it's
supposed to be.


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Portraits:


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Wow, this bird looks WORLDS better! You've done great work with him! It's possible that beak might grow back -- the very outer portion of the beak can regenerate -- just the tip of it -- but this break may be far down enough that it will heal completely. 

Were there any puncture wounds in the crop area at all? Is there any scabbing there? Check for tiny scabs or injuries to the crop area -- that might be playing into this situation. 

Sometimes they drink a lot when there are crop problems, because it helps them digest their food and move it through the system. They can also drink more, though, if they have some kind of infection. 

A truly healthy poop shouldn't have much of a smell at all -- but since this food has been so slow to move through, I'm not surprised it has a bit of an odor. It's good that the vomit didn't smell much. 

You should be able to feel the neck below the crop, if it is truly empty. It should be solid to the touch, not squishy at all, and there shouldn't be any lumpy material to be felt. The bone in the trachea, which is higher up in the throat, can feel a bit lumpy, but otherwise the crop should lay flat against the chest. 

If he's pooping a lot, there's still food moving through, so I'd stick with apple sauce for another day -- and then think about feeding him again, very slowly, and a little at a time. 

What have you been feeding him?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

hi minimonkey,
I gave him his nystatin. They said to give a pill 1-1.5 hours prior
to feeding. Then I wanted to give warm applesauce and add little dog
food to it, pureed, because it has a lot of protein and is high in
calories. And to add apple cider vinegar to the mix.
By your description, Rage is still stuck. The crop goes well down in
a long lump.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

With a thin bird, you will feel the trachea as sort of a ridge, or lump, right down the middle of the crop, but if it is empty, it will flatten out on either side of that. Could that be what you are feeling?

See how it goes with this -- the pureed food is good. I hope he is able to digest this. 

How is he today?


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

minimonkey, Rage died yesterday. I feel awful. If I were more
skillful or listened to you and tried to empty his crop with tubes
and such, he'd be alive. He died suddenly, in 3 minutes.
I also want to apologize to chatting to you like crazy, every half an
hour. I was very stressed and upset and did not know what to do.
You were a great help for me and for Ragy.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Atete -- I am so sorry about Rage dying! How very sad. You have nothing to apologize for, at all. You did the best you could for this bird, with the skills you have available to you. You were right not to try to flush the crop if you didn't have the experience to do it. 

Don't blame yourself, please. Sometimes there are much bigger problems that we can't necessarily see, especially after predator attacks. I know how heartbreaking it is to lose one that you are doing everything to try to help. I'm sure he was very grateful to you for the help you gave him. 

I'm very sorry for your loss


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## atete (May 18, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words, minimonkey. Yet, I still can't help
thinking that if I were more capable I could have saved this bird.
And I learned new things because of Rage, too (for example, don't
gobe baytril without any probiotics). It makes me feel like some
weird evil doctor from cartoons and movies, who makes experiments on
pigeons.
Accidentally, I picked up another injured bird today. I am posting
her story separatley, and her (I am almost certain it's she) and me
would be grateful for your support.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I always go through that too, Atete, when I fail to save a bird -- I keep wracking my brain to see if there's anything else I could have done, if I did anything wrong, etc. 

I also know that "evil doctor" feeling -- I did a post-mortem exam on a bird this week, that I failed to save despite my experience, and I felt horrible sitting there cutting up the dead body with a scalpel --but that's how we learn. The information I gained was very valuable, but I still felt like a monster doing it.


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## Doveman1 (Dec 10, 2012)

Poor thing...it looks so sad. Maybe you could become a rehabber? Learn from pigeon clubs and animal control how to rehab birds. I give you my deepest condolences


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