# Kiko my beloved brat and Kalani my little angle



## Kiko&Kalani

Kiko's insaciable curiosity is starting get the better of him. It's like trying to keep a 3 year old out of trouble these days. 

Yesterday Kiko flew into the mirror door and left a complete imprint of his body (I checked him over and he is OK). I measured and from tip to tip of wings his imprint measures 22 inches. While I was taking a picture I guess Kiko took offense of me showing everyone the evidense because he started attacking me. I got this pic of him flying with the mirror imprint all in one. 

Last week I decided to make a stew in the crock pot. It just never occured to me that he would land on the lid of the crock pot. He must have felt it because he flew around and would not land for several seconds. I soaked his feet in ice water then sprayed them with burn spray to be safe, but in the end his feet were not injured. 

A few weeks ago he torched his tail feathers on one of the chandelier light bulbs. He lost about an inch of tail feathers and now they look scalloped. What a little maniac he is. I have now wrapped the light fixture in ten foil to keep him away. Thank goodness Kalani is a perfect little angle, Kiko keeps me busy enough for them both. 

It's interesting because as outgoing as he his inside, he is very timid going outside now. I keep the balcony door open pretty much all day long but Kiko will only venture out if Romeo(my poodle) goes out there. Sometimes Romeo will come back in without Kiko noticing and when he (Kiko) finally realizes he is out on the balcony alone he will come running back inside (stomping his little feet). I don't know why he doesn't fly in, but it is so funny to watch. Kalani spends a little more time outside, but only at night (never during the day). 

They are just over 8 months old now and it's so interesting to watch them grow. 
View attachment 18940


----------



## catmicky

Awww... could you post a couple more pictures of them?


----------



## Doves1111

I feel really bad that Kiko flew into the mirror and I'm glad that he's okay...but WOW...what a cool picture! 

Dawn


----------



## doveone52

Poor Kiko..but that is a cool picture!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Thanks. I heard him when it happened but I didn't realize that he had smacked the mirror. He makes a lot of clapping noise when he flies (I think he likes attention) so it was only slightly louder than usual. As I was trying to take the picture, the next day, I was more focusing on the lighting so the image would show up, and so when he started bombing me I didn't even realize I had gotten the picture. I don't know if you can see it, but if you look at were his right wing meets his body there is a bright white spot. On the mirro you can see the outline of his head, the bright spot is his eye area and just below that you can see that his beak was open. I can only imagine from how it looks that his expression was something like this 

As for Kiko today, he had another mishap last night. He flew too close to the ceiling fan (that was on low) and clipped it. He lost about a dozen small feathers off of his right wing and wow did it make a loud noise. I stayed up all night watching him and the tsunami news (my mom is on a hawaiian cruise right now, Note: Avoid Holland America Cruise Lines very dissappointed). Today he seems like he is in pain. He can fly and coo and walk, but he doesn't seem to be flying as well (strong) and is not making his usual clapping noise. His poopy is normal but he hasn't eaten today and he usually does by now. Any thought on what I should watch for? Is there anything I can give him for pain? Poor Kiko Kalani has been very attentive and concerned for him, staying with him close and attacking me if I try to get too close to him. It's so sweet of her that I don't mind the wing slaps.


----------



## catmicky

Aww, I hope Kiko feels better soon!


----------



## Reti

Hope he ate by now, guess he might be in pain. He should be ok by tomorrow.
You have a little devil there, you have to watch him carefully. 
The pic with the mirror is great, but glad he didn't get injured badly. 
Once I had a little dove who flew full force into the window and died instantly. It was a horrible experience. Ever since I have put stickers on the windows, the jelly ones which you can remove. 
So, please be careful with this little monster of yours

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

That's a good idea. It's just odd that he has lived inside this apartmet for 8 months and I never had any problems with either of them crashing into anything when they fly. I'm afraid to use my ceiling fan and next time I cook (which luckily is not that often) I will put him in the bedroom and shut the door (when I try to cook, I am already working with a major challenge in myself so I can't do both). 

He still doesn't seem to want to fly much, just to hang out in his nest area. He seems to be trying to call Kalani to the nest as usual and he comes out and gets mad with me when I come near to check on him (as usual). He does his yoga stretch as usual.


----------



## Reti

Does he have any favourite treats? Try giving him those to get him started to eat. If he behaves otherwise normal there is no reason for him not to eat.

He sounds like a handfull, LOL. It's good to bird-proof your home with such a hyper bird.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

He drank a little water and ate a few sunflower seeds at 3AM. He flew down to make is usual "red carpet walk" in front of the mirror (he struts back and forth cooing to himself looking all impressive)that he makes every day when he first wakes up. But then he was hesitant to fly back up to his "loft" (that's were he has his nest, food and water) which is about 4 feet high. He's started stretching his wings a lot today. His poopy is bright green. I've also noticed that the way he pecks me is different. He used to bite, twist and pull. Now he bites and pushes. I'v felt around and nothing seems out of place or broken. I think the muscles in his shoulder ares bruised and hurting. 

I have celebrex, hydrocodone syrup (Romeo's) , rymedil (Romeo's), and aspirin. Is it safe to give him a very small dose of any of that? Would it help to put ice or heat on it? He gets so aggrevated with me when I go over to check him over that I feel like I'm making him hurt more, so I have just left him alone and kept a close watch on him. 

He is the most curious bird I can ever imagine. He wants to be into everything. Whether I'm putting up the groceries, opening the mail, cooking, doing dishes, wrapping presents (now that was funny), he is on top of it all. If he could talk I think he would drive me crazy always asking; What is that? Can I have some? What are you doing?  When I'm not doing something to entertain him he is usually either eating or trying to mate with my foot or hand. I can't imagine what mischief he would get into outside, so I am glad he doesn't show any interest in going outside. 

I'm off to give him some pine nuts now.

Beth


----------



## Cyreen

Call it a learning curve and let him ride it through. If you think there is anything more serious involved, take him to a vet, but NO - no drugs. I'm willing to bet he remembers that mirror in the future. What the hell was he thinking playing chicken with that pigeon in the mirror?


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Cyreen said:


> Call it a learning curve and let him ride it through. If you think there is anything more serious involved, take him to a vet, but NO - no drugs. I'm willing to bet he remembers that mirror in the future. What the hell was he thinking playing chicken with that pigeon in the mirror?


Hahahaha... I'm thinking that he was thinking "Ah, I can take that guy". He has very high self esteem . As for the ceiling fan, I have no idea why he got so close. I have always had the fan on and he has never gone anywhere near it. Poor baby, he must be so soar. He's moving around more today but he is testing his right wing a lot. It does't hang down/droop or anything though. That's a good sign isn't it?


----------



## becege

I think that it is wrong that you keep these birds in your apartment. They are ferals they need to be free or kept in a coop. They are exposed to too many dangers. Free these birds or get a coop or large cage. It is cruel to let them keep hurting themselves. What you are doing is not right.


----------



## Cyreen

They are hardly feral if they were hand raised. Do you propose they be turned loose with no foraging or survival skills or any acclimatization to their environment; is death preferable?


----------



## spirit wings

we baby proof a home... bird proofing is essential too..... common sense..


----------



## Doves1111

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Hahahaha... I'm thinking that he was thinking "Ah, I can take that guy". He has very high self esteem . As for the ceiling fan, I have no idea why he got so close. I have always had the fan on and he has never gone anywhere near it. Poor baby, he must be so soar. He's moving around more today but he is testing his right wing a lot. It does't hang down/droop or anything though. That's a good sign isn't it?


I don't have any pet pigeons or doves in the house anymore...my doves are in an outdoor aviary. But I do have hookbills in the house...a Yellow Collar Macaw. 2 Cockatiels, and an English Budgie. They are out of their cages a good part of the day. When I cook, I always lock them in their cages. I never know if or when they will get scared of something and fly crazy...landing on the stove. Same thing will the ceiling fan...I shut it off. You have to be very careful and bird proof your house. Sometimes no matter how careful we are...they still find a way to get hurt. I know you love your pigeons by the posts I read...but please lock them up for their safety and make sure everything or anything that they can get hurt on is shut off or covered up.

Dawn


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Becege,
I respect that you have a strong opinion, but I do not agree with it at all. Just because they were born feral does not mean that they are better off in the wild after living out of the wild for their entire life. They know their names, they fly to me when I call them, they sleep next to me, they never have to worry about bad weather, they have plenty of good food and clean water, they have a large loft/nest area, they are healthy (yes one of them has now had an accident but that's not a reason to throw them out to fend for themselves). Nothing and nobody in this life is perfect. Keeping them may not have been the perfect solution, but neither are your suggestions. I hope we can agree to amicably disagree on this. If you feel too strongly to do so, then I suggest we just avoid further contact.


----------



## spirit wings

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Becege,
> I respect that you have a strong opinion, but I do not agree with it at all. Just because they were born feral does not mean that they are better off in the wild after living out of the wild for their entire life. They know their names, they fly to me when I call them, they sleep next to me, they never have to worry about bad weather, they have plenty of good food and clean water, they have a large loft/nest area, they are healthy (yes one of them has now had an accident but that's not a reason to throw them out to fend for themselves). Nothing and nobody in this life is perfect. Keeping them may not have been the perfect solution, but neither are your suggestions. I hope we can agree to amicably disagree on this. If you feel too strongly to do so, then I suggest we just avoid further contact.


I agree too... ferals came from somewhere..which were domestic stock.. raising and keeping them just reverts them back to domestic life.. people save and tame feral kittens all the time, and then they keep them safe from a shorter life and starvation..


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Doves1111 said:


> I don't have any pet pigeons or doves in the house anymore...my doves are in an outdoor aviary. But I do have hookbills in the house...a Yellow Collar Macaw. 2 Cockatiels, and an English Budgie. They are out of their cages a good part of the day. When I cook, I always lock them in their cages. I never know if or when they will get scared of something and fly crazy...landing on the stove. Same thing will the ceiling fan...I shut it off. You have to be very careful and bird proof your house. Sometimes no matter how careful we are...they still find a way to get hurt. I know you love your pigeons by the posts I read...but please lock them up for their safety and make sure everything or anything that they can get hurt on is shut off or covered up.
> 
> Dawn


Thanks Dawn,
I agree about the bird proofing of the house. I thought I had done a good job of that (obviously there was room for improvement). I even installed those safety plugs in the outlets. Since I have never had birds (only dogs) before, this has been a learning experience. I have learned so much from all of you on this site and have appreciated all the good info. I will definately be leaving them in the bedroom (that's were their loft is) when I cook from now on (which is not often unless you count the microwave as cooking). I already do that when we have guests, run the vacuum, using any chemicals so I will just add cooking to that list. As for the fan, it too will stay off when they are in the living room. Thanks for the positive support!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

spirit wings said:


> I agree too... ferals came from somewhere..which were domestic stock.. raising and keeping them just reverts them back to domestic life.. people save and tame feral kittens all the time, and then they keep them safe from a shorter life and starvation..


Thanks spirit wing. I know I haven't done everything perfectly this first time around but with the help and advice of people like you I have, I think, given them a better life than what they would have if I had left them on the street at age 9 days. I have never had birds, never planned on having birds, so I started this adventure with no experience or knowledge. With the help of so many of you here, I have taken each step of this journey and made decisions based on the advise and guidance I have gotten from those of you with experience. I'm only 8 months into it and I am sure I have a lot more to learn.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I was trying to post a pic but am having trouble getting them to upload. I'll try again later.


----------



## Jay3

I'm sorry he hit the mirror. Hope he's okay. Looking around and seeing the obvious things is pretty easy. Like not running the ceiling fan when they are out. And locking them up when you are cooking. But sometimes there are things we just don't think of, and pigeons, or any bird for that matter, will find whatever it is that you have missed. We have a house pigeon, and it is amazing what she will find to get into. They are very curious little creatures.


----------



## becege

Your bird burned its feet. It burned its tail feathers. It flew into a fan. It flew into a mirror and was injured. This borders on animal cruelty. If you cannot see that there is nothing I can do to help these birds. Put them in a cage. Don't let them free fly in a house. Sooner or later they will kill themselves and or cause serious property damage. I know you think what they do is cute. But they will only end up permanently injured.


----------



## Reti

Kiko&Kalani said:


> He drank a little water and ate a few sunflower seeds at 3AM. He flew down to make is usual "red carpet walk" in front of the mirror (he struts back and forth cooing to himself looking all impressive)that he makes every day when he first wakes up. But then he was hesitant to fly back up to his "loft" (that's were he has his nest, food and water) which is about 4 feet high. He's started stretching his wings a lot today. His poopy is bright green. I've also noticed that the way he pecks me is different. He used to bite, twist and pull. Now he bites and pushes. I'v felt around and nothing seems out of place or broken. I think the muscles in his shoulder ares bruised and hurting.
> 
> I have celebrex, hydrocodone syrup (Romeo's) , rymedil (Romeo's), and aspirin. Is it safe to give him a very small dose of any of that? Would it help to put ice or heat on it? He gets so aggrevated with me when I go over to check him over that I feel like I'm making him hurt more, so I have just left him alone and kept a close watch on him.
> 
> He is the most curious bird I can ever imagine. He wants to be into everything. Whether I'm putting up the groceries, opening the mail, cooking, doing dishes, wrapping presents (now that was funny), he is on top of it all. If he could talk I think he would drive me crazy always asking; What is that? Can I have some? What are you doing?  When I'm not doing something to entertain him he is usually either eating or trying to mate with my foot or hand. I can't imagine what mischief he would get into outside, so I am glad he doesn't show any interest in going outside.
> 
> I'm off to give him some pine nuts now.
> 
> Beth




What a sweet character he is. Love reading his stories.
Please be careful in letting him outside, I am so worried he might get lost or confused and get attacked by a hawk or get into an accident. I would keep him inside only as he seems to be perfectly happy and content being an indoor bird only.
I have a friend who had a pigeon like your's. She was letting him go outside and he wasn't going anywhere for months. One day she went outside to pick him up and bring him inside and he was gone. He never came back.
And there is another story on here of a pigeon picked up by a hawk.
Also Victor had lost his Tooter for months after a hawk attack.
There are too many horror stories with tame pigeons being let out.
Please be careful.

Reti


----------



## Reti

becege said:


> I think that it is wrong that you keep these birds in your apartment. They are ferals they need to be free or kept in a coop. They are exposed to too many dangers. Free these birds or get a coop or large cage. It is cruel to let them keep hurting themselves. What you are doing is not right.



Those are domesticated ferals, perfectly content to live indoors. They wouldn't make it outside.
I had sick and injured ferals brought to me that were previously handraised and kept as pets, those were the lucky ones. One of them landed on a person's shoulder and wouldn't leave so this person took him to the wildlife center and then brought to me. 

Reti


----------



## Reti

becege said:


> Your bird burned its feet. It burned its tail feathers. It flew into a fan. It flew into a mirror and was injured. This borders on animal cruelty. If you cannot see that there is nothing I can do to help these birds. Put them in a cage. Don't let them free fly in a house. Sooner or later they will kill themselves and or cause serious property damage. I know you think what they do is cute. But they will only end up permanently injured.



We all make mistakes and Beth is still learning. She is doing a great job in my opinion and I am sure she will bird proof her house further.

Reti


----------



## Quazar

becege said:


> Your bird burned its feet. It burned its tail feathers. It flew into a fan. It flew into a mirror and was injured. *This borders on animal cruelty*. If you cannot see that there is nothing I can do to help these birds. Put them in a cage. Don't let them free fly in a house. Sooner or later they will kill themselves and or cause serious property damage. I know you think what they do is cute. But they will only end up permanently injured.


What a load of crap!, and judging by your last post in this thread, your so called "help" by setting hand reared birds free, would probably kill them far quicker than their safer life in the appartment. 
(not that they actually need any help, theyre better looked after than some kids lol).


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Reti said:


> We all make mistakes and Beth is still learning. She is doing a great job in my opinion and I am sure she will bird proof her house further.
> 
> Reti


Thanks Reti,

You have helped me since day one with Kiko and Kalani. Your advice is always something I value and appreciate. On a very positive note. Kiko is chasing Kalani all over the place. He seems to be feeling much better. It's a good thing too, because she is leading him on a merry chase. I'll keep the screen door closed from now on to make sure they don't ever get the idea to go outside.

As for this guy's very negative opinions. He has never bothered to offer any support, help or positive advise to me so his negative feedback holds no value to me now. Now, if you ever wanted to rip me one, that I would listen to You've certainly earned my respect over all these months. 

Thanks again,
Beth


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Quazar said:


> What a load of crap!, and judging by your last post in this thread, your so called "help" by setting hand reared birds free, would probably kill them far quicker than their safer life in the appartment.
> (not that they actually need any help, theyre better looked after than some kids lol).


Thanks Quazar!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I changed cameras. For some reason the pics taken on my canon powershot with 12pixels will not upload but my older 7pixels works. 

Here is a pic I just took of the loving couple, Kiko and Kalani. 
View attachment 18971


----------



## Reti

Thank you Beth.
The pic is so cute, your birds are very sweet and very pretty. They look very healthy and happy.

Hope Kiko feels better today and is eating again.

Reti


----------



## Jay3

AWWWWWWW, so cute.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Kiko is almost back to normal. He's been in full "mate" mode with Kalani. She has been very greedy with his crop milk. She keeps going back for at least 6 servings before she gives Kiko the green light.  

She is the perfect little princess. I ran out of purified water but did not realize that fact until I had already taken up all the water bowls and cleaned them. So I had to use regular tap water to refill them. Kalani just went over to take a drink of water and no sooner had her beak touched the water, she took about 3 quick steps back and shook her head in disgust. I guess I am now off to the store to get her her princess water.


----------



## Reti

LOL, now they are spoiled ROTTEN
You really think she could taste the difference? It could be if she used only to bottled water, I guess.

Glad he is back to his normal self. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Kiko woke me up with a good morning kiss/peck today! Yeah. He had gotten into the habit of flying down to me (if he wasn't already on the bed) when I wake up and stretched and start lightly pecking me (I call them good morning kisses). He hasn't been doing that for a few days now: so I was so happy when he did today! 

As for the water, I think they know. When they first started drinking for themselves I was just putting tap water in their bowls and they would mostly drink from Romeo's bowl (which was purified), so I switched them all to purified so they wouldn't be sharing bowls with the dog. Then they started only wanting to bathe in Romeo's water bowl, even though they had a larger bath bowl (with tap water in it). So since Romeo had two water bowls (both identical), I turned one into the bird bath with tap water. Romeo will not drink tap water, so no cross contamination issues there. They would always bathe in the bowl with the purified water!! I'm still fighting that fight because I really do not want to fund purifed water for their bath, but I seem to be losing the war. 

I guess I have to agree with them being spoilt rotten. I have noticed that the longer I have a bag of sunflower seeds the less they eat them. When I open a fresh bag they go nuts with them. I got a pink brick for them a few weeks ago and Kalani has claimed it has her thrown. If Kiko tries to get on it with her she runs him off. It is now her favorite place to perch. 

Their "condo loft" got an expansion. We bought an all in one printer which opened up a couple more feet off the top shelf of the desk so they have now claimed that space as theirs. Their loft now spans over 10 feet!


----------



## Reti

Oh wow, they really have no time to get bored Always something new for them

That is odd they won't even bathe in tap water. Really spoiled brats you have there,lol.
How about you mix half purified water and half tap water for their baths?
I noticed too with the seeds, they don't go crazy after them if the bag is old. 

Have you thought of getting them a large cage for when you are not home or for when you want some "privacy"?
Mine love their cages, sometimes they don't come out of it for hours. Since I have had trouble with the management I keep them in their cages but they have several hours a day time out. Sometimes they come out for a few minutes and then go back in. They love their "homes".
Also I don't have to worry about them getting into trouble, knocking things over and pooping all over the place.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I try to provide them with things so they won't get "cabin fever". But Kiko must have ADD cuase he always wants more, the little brat. Kalani is far more content and satisfied. I guess I could try mixing the water, losing only half the war would be better than the whole thing. Kiko likes showers better than baths actually. I put him in the shower and he will fluff up and open his wings while I spray him. Kalani like to take long soaking baths though. 

I had gotten a cage on craigslist that is about 3' x 2' x 2' but boy do they fight with each other when I put them in there. I had to devise a divider to keep them seperated. I was intending to put them in it and put them out on the balcony for sun but it never worked. I guess it was too small. How big do you think it should be? I'm willing to try it. 

I sure wouldn't mind a break from poopy patrol! It's a lot easier when they are sitting on their eggs because only one is out at a time and they are far better behaved then. After day 18 of sitting on eggs (like clock work) they both are out together for about 5 days to a week before the next batch of eggs starts again. It's funny, when they are out alone, they want to be right on top of me, but when they are out together I don't exist. I feel so used


----------



## Reti

Well, the bigger, the better. Mine have relatively small cages but they don't seem to mind. They need to have their nest in there and once they adjust they won't fight anymore. They are a couple, right? They shouldn't be fighting.

And, you feel used? Oh dear, you are being used
We all are. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Ah, so true. My life has turned upside down since I found them, but in a good way (not counting the poopy).

Here is a pic of Kalani holding court today and Kiko trying very hard to impress her. (I'm impressed) Kiko seems to be getting really big. Does he seem to be a normal size? Kalani looks so small next to him. They are a couple, but Kalani has an independent streak that I don't think Kiko fully appreciates. 
View attachment 18999


----------



## Reti

Great pic. They are so beautiful.

Males are usually bigger then females. Feral pigeons vary in size. I have had some really small birds.
From the pics they seem normal size.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Kiko has been so lovable today that I started to get suspicuos. Sure enough, Kalani laid her egg during the night/early morning. Now that she's not giving him much attention, he wants my attention. Little brat.


----------



## Reti

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Kiko has been so lovable today that I started to get suspicuos. Sure enough, Kalani laid her egg during the night/early morning. Now that she's not giving him much attention, he wants my attention. Little brat.


See he is using you

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Yeah but I just can't seem to resist letting him I love that little brat


----------



## Reti

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Yeah but I just can't seem to resist letting him I love that little brat



I know. They are irresistble.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I've heard of like father like son, but like poodle like pigeon? Since day 1 my toy poodle, Romeo, has been Kiko and Kalani's biggest fan and protector. They adore each other. K and K have Romeo's back too. In fact, resently when I was cleaning Romeo's ears (which he hates and makes a BIG stink about) Kiko landed on my shoulder and started violently pecking at my ear  

Today Kiko started doing something funny. I feed Romeo on paper plates and Romeo will put his paw on the edge of the plate to tip it up and hold it down while he eats. Today I saw Kiko go over to Romeo's plate of doggie cookies, put one foot on the edge of the plate, tip it up, hold it down and start pecking at the cookies. He did not eat any of them, just made a big mess.


----------



## doveone52

That is so cute! I have a collie who thinks I'm hurting squeakers when I feed them-a distress call? She has to investigate and they think they might get something out of that long snout!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

doveone52 said:


> That is so cute! I have a collie who thinks I'm hurting squeakers when I feed them-a distress call? She has to investigate and they think they might get something out of that long snout!


Awww.... I bet his snout is bigger than the sqeaker  I guess since Romeo techniquely found them in the trash he decided he was responsible for them.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I couldn't figure out how to post a pic in PM mode so I am posting a pic of Kalani's last nest here. Though I have tried everything from hay, corn husks, palm fronds, tree moss, cut and shredded paper, felt, bubble wrap, strips of paper towel, news paper and several more, she seems to only like curly ribbon. I guess since she lives in Miami Beach she was going for the Art Deco look.  I took this pic just before I switched the real eggs out for the wooden dummies. 
Beth

View attachment 19025


----------



## spirit wings

very festive...it looks to clean though..lol..


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

spirit wings said:


> very festive...it looks to clean though..lol..


By the end of 18 days the potty pad under the nest was all shredded, gray and debris everywhere. This pic was taken only about 2 days after she laid her second egg so it was still neat and clean. I did notice that the one good thing about this curly ribbon is that all the "debris" falls through to the bottom of the nest and the ribbon on top stays pretty clean even after 3 weeks. Maybe that's why she like it so much.


----------



## Reti

Oh, that is such a nice nest. Love it.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Thanks (on their behalf) I sort of cheat on their nests and get them started with cotton balls covered with a potty pad then some nesting material. Kiko works so hard to please Kalani and is always taking her stuff. Between me and Kiko, her nests are huge. I wish I had gotten a pic at the end of that nest's life. It was much bigger, although in the pic here the nest looks bigger than it actually was at that point (I used the zoom, so that probably makes it look bigger). I hope they do as nice a nest this time so I can get a pic. I scatter stuff all over the floor for them to forage through for nesting. I had thought about using the flat styrofoam packing material that the printer came in this time, but I am afraid they might eat it so that's out.


----------



## Reti

They are so cute when they collect whatever they can carry into their nests. 
Now, don't they poop in it? Some of my birds never pooped in their nests or even in their cages.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

They've never pooped inside their nest area (thank goodness) and rarely poop around their loft area. They have three main areas in the apartment that they seem to favor for that I am sooooooooo glad that Kalani's favorite site is low to the ground (especially after she's been on her eggs for 18 hours!). As for the nest, the only thing I find other than the nesting material are feathers and feather dust/shucks. 

Awww there goes Kiko, as I type, going under the furniture foraging. He's making noise, so he's found something... He just came out with a large feather (not sure who's).


----------



## Reti

I used to find all kinds of stuff in their nests, anything from paperclips, straws, little pens, toothpicks etc. They are so cute when they get excited over their finds

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Speaking of finds... Kiko just found their bag with all their seed and treats. I forgot to put it away in the cabinet (found out how necessary that was once when one or both of them managed to tear into a bag of seeds. He is pecking at the plastic container with the sunflower seeds That bird it too smart for my well being


----------



## Reti

Wow, he is smart.
LOL, I learned to use only plastic containers. They will pack on those too but no chance on breaking them open.

Now, give him a kiss from me

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Reti said:


> Wow, he is smart.
> LOL, I learned to use only plastic containers. They will pack on those too but no chance on breaking them open.
> 
> Now, give him a kiss from me
> 
> Reti


Will do Today was laundry day, so they had fun playing with/in the piles of cloths. Kiko snuggled in for a nap on top of the whites

How are your babies? Do you have pics?


----------



## Reti

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Will do Today was laundry day, so they had fun playing with/in the piles of cloths. Kiko snuggled in for a nap on top of the whites
> 
> How are your babies? Do you have pics?



They are good. I have pics but I can't download them from my phone to my laptop. I can send them to my email and then for some reason I can't seem to be able to download them. Will try again later. Maybe I figure a way to get them on here.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Reti: I sure hope you can, I'd love to see your babies. One of them is named Tiny right? What about the other? 

I've been trying to read up on what I need to be doing to insure they stay healthy. So much of the "health" related info seems to be more for sick birds or loft situations. I'd love to get advice on what all I need to be doing for inside pet pigeons preventative care. Here's what I do so far: 

I put ACV in their water once a week
I put a vitamin liquid drop (with Vitamin D) once a week. 
Put ACV in bath water
I check their mouth once a month for any signs of canker
Feed: Premium Universal Complete Nutrition Blend (12.5% protein) with 12 types of seeds, 4 types of oil, many vitamins and minerals, plus lentils, split peas and barely pearls 
Treats: unsalted sunflower hearts, pine nuts
Gravel grit with calcium carbonate and crushed oyster shells 24/7

That's all that I am doing for now. Is there anything I need to add or change. I was reading about Albon at Foy's. If I add this should I stop using the vitamin drops in water. Do I need to do any vaccines or 4 in 1 treatments once a year? Should I do a de wormer, if so which one how often. This is all in the name of preventative care. The information is overwhelming and starting to get confusing as to what is actually a good plan vs. going overboard. They seem perfectly healthy and are not exposed to any other birds or soil. 

I want to give them the best life possible. Thanks for your advice


----------



## Reti

That's all that I am doing for now. Is there anything I need to add or change. I was reading about Albon at Foy's. If I add this should I stop using the vitamin drops in water. Do I need to do any vaccines or 4 in 1 treatments once a year? Should I do a de wormer, if so which one how often. This is all in the name of preventative care. The information is overwhelming and starting to get confusing as to what is actually a good plan vs. going overboard. They seem perfectly healthy and are not exposed to any other birds or soil. 

Yeah, one is Tiny, the love of my life, his mate is Angel, my first handraised pigeon.
Then I have big old King pigeon Brian with arthritis and cataracts, he is blind and his mate Peggy, missing a leg and a wing.
And Andrew with his mate Whitney. My adorable ferals.
I have about 15 more placed with friends right now waiting for me to move so I can take them back.

You are doing everything right. If they never come in contact with other pigeons you don't need to use Albon or a dewormer. Have you ever de-wormed them? You can do it once but as I mentioned if they don't come in contact with other birds you don't have to do it regularly.
I used to deworm mine every six months but only because I was taking in sick and injured all the time.
If they get also natural/unfiltered sunlight a couple of times a week that would help with their calcium metabolism. But you are giving them already vit.D, so that's ok.
If you ever need any dewormers or meds for canker, coccidia or other infections let me know, I have tons of them and will be glad to give you whatever you need.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Thanks Reti! I have never dewormed them. I had one scare with some seed I bought at the supermarket. I used it a couple of times and then I noticed these tiny, tiny little white skinny worms! I threw it out, sterilized everything, gave them a bath in ACV and put ACV in their water (this was back in November). 

How old are Tiny and Angel? Is Tiny the one in your username pic? Wow, fifteen, I would pull my hair out. Two are plenty for me. Dumb question here, but what is the difference between Tiny & Angel and Andrew & Whitney
are they all ferals? Sorry so many questionsl, but they sound very interesting. 

Oh, I missed the pic of the week last night (never a camera when you need one) when Kalani discovered a gallon sized bag of hulled pecans. Once she found them she would not let me near them. She acted like she had found a secret treasure; the mother load. So funny! I felt so bad having to take them away from her.


----------



## mistergugu

Nice birds you've got there!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Thanks! My mom thinks they're ugly (although I think they are starting to get to her, she called them cute the last time she was here) , but I couldn't be more proud of them and think they are gorgeous. I guess I am fully afflicted with "mom syndrome" . No cure in sight. 

I'm glad to hear that Stinky is showing signs of improvement. I don't know about how long to give him/her antibiotics, but I would think it's more towards the 7 to 10 days in his case.


----------



## Reti

Angel just turned 8 and Tiny is almost 8. Andrew is 9 and Whitney probably also or older.
They are all ferals and like you I think my birds are the priettiest of all. 
Had this happen with seeds also and other times, when I used to buy the big bags of seeds they formed those little tiny bugs that I found all over the house. It took me some time to get rid of them.
The bird in my avatar is Alice, she was a big King pigeon mated to a tiny sweet feral. She died of Lymphoma a few years ago. Two years later her beloved mate died also of cancer in the eye socket.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Reti said:


> Angel just turned 8 and Tiny is almost 8. Andrew is 9 and Whitney probably also or older.
> They are all ferals and like you I think my birds are the priettiest of all.
> Had this happen with seeds also and other times, when I used to buy the big bags of seeds they formed those little tiny bugs that I found all over the house. It took me some time to get rid of them.
> The bird in my avatar is Alice, she was a big King pigeon mated to a tiny sweet feral. She died of Lymphoma a few years ago. Two years later her beloved mate died also of cancer in the eye socket.
> 
> Reti


Wow almost a decade. How long did you have Alice before she passed away? She sure is a beauty. I'm so sorry for your loses. Is cancer a common problem in pigeons? I sure hope to see pics of your babies some day. 

I switched out the eggs today with the dummies and for the first time I accidentally dropped one (I had a little help from Kiko )! Kiko saw it, but Kalani did not. I felt so bad!!! Maybe it's just my guilty conscience, but it sure seems like Kiko has been very hostile towards me since. 

Question about hens: How old are the hens when they stop laying eggs and will Kalani stop sooner because I am always swapping them with dummies? Will they still be happy together when she stops laying eggs?


----------



## Reti

I had Alice for 5 years. She was already 6 years old when I got her.
I had quite a few with confirmed cancer and my friend also had several, so it is not uncommon for them to get cancer.

Angel stopped laying eggs at age 4, way too soon but her and Tiny are still happily married doing their thing.
Whitney had a hysterectony 5-6 years ago and I give them fake eggs once a month on which they sit happily. A couple of years ago they raised a baby that was brought to me.
Most hens produce eggs well into their teens. I am not sure if not hatching the eggs has any effect on them. But all of my birds remained a couple even after the hens stopped laying eggs.

Reti


----------



## Ede-bird

I buy a pigeon and dove seed mix as a starter base for some of the food I give Cooter. Having learned the hard way with the budgie seed, I now toss the bag in the freezer for a week to kill of any potential creepy crawlies.


----------



## Reti

Ede-bird said:


> I buy a pigeon and dove seed mix as a starter base for some of the food I give Cooter. Having learned the hard way with the budgie seed, I now toss the bag in the freezer for a week to kill of any potential creepy crawlies.


I buy now smaller bags of seed and keep them also refrigerated.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

That's a great idea. I think I will take out a small bag and put in the fridge and put the rest in the feezer. Since I haven't taken this precausion before, maybe it would be best to go ahead and do a de wormer on them. What do you recommend?

Dumb question: Would you freeze refriderate the lentil, barely pearls and split peas too or not?

Beth


----------



## Reti

I do, I refrigerate everything, stays fresh longer.

You can give them a round of dewormer. It wouldn't hurt them.

Reti


----------



## Ede-bird

I don't freeze the human grade food-only the commercial bird seed bags, or you can end up with grain weevils and revolting stuff like that crawling around in the food. Just extra protein I guess...but yucko!!!!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Eek, that's nasty sounding. I put their seed in the freezer and the sunflower seeds, lentils, peas and barely in the fridge last night. Better safe than sorry. 

I cuaght Kiko in the act of taking a bath last night. Here's a couple of pics of him during and just after he splashed water all over the floor (I think he got a little on himself ). Can't be too sure with him. When he first started taking baths he faked it! He would make a big scene of splashing the water and get water everywhere but amazingly very little on himself. Then he would lay out and pretend to be drying off. Thats when we started taking showers. 

Splish Splash, Kiko's Taking A Bath 
View attachment 19120


Kiko stepping out of his bath looking high and dry.
View attachment 19121


----------



## Reti

LOL, I love the pics, so funny and so cute.
They love to splash in the water and make a total mess, don't they?

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

There was water 4 feet from his bath tub! It took me two beach towels to sop up all the water. It was funny, he made such an impressive show of drying off, lifing his wing and holding it up, fluffing his feathers. I was cuious and picked him up and he was barely wet enough to leave water marks on my shirt. Kalani, on the other hand, stays in and soaks and manages to splash without making much mess, you can barely hear her bathing and when she gets out she is very wet. I think Kiko just does it for fun, the little brat.


----------



## Reti

LOL, how funny. 
I love it when they lift their wing to dry.
A couple of my guys do love to soak, others, like you said, just make a mess, so cute.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

OMG! Kiko is brilliant!!! He may have saved Romeo's life this morning!! 

Romeo was born with a heart problem and according to several vets would not live more than 5 to 7 years (depending on which vet you asked). He's now 13.5 years old. Anyway, he's been having a tough time lately. This morning Kiko landed on my stomach (not unusual) and started making a royal fuss, flew down on the floor near Romeo (who looked asleep) then back up on the bed fussing the whole time. Giving up any chance of continuing to sleep I got up and started turning on lights, making noise giving Kiko a hard time for waking me up. He was still being a belligerent little beast (what I was thinking at the time) landing on me pecking on me. I jokingly called out "Romeo save me" and that's when I noticed that Romeo had not woken up yet (by this point he surely would have). I leaned down to check on him and noticed he was taking slow shallow short breaths, barely breathing. My heart stopped. I picked him up and started thumping on his chest, rubbing and blowing air into his face. The whole time Kiko was right there watching, landing on me, landing on Romeo and obviously stressed. After several minutes, Romeo opened his eyes and started sputtering, coughing and gasping for air. That was over 10 hours ago and he 's doing well now. 

I don't know what would have happened if Kiko hadn't woke me up though Kiko's my hero!!!!! I love that bird! Do you think he really knew something was wrong?


----------



## Quazar

It certainly looks like it.
All animals have an uncanny way of knowing when things are wrong and "not as they should be", especially if there is a strong bond between them.


----------



## Reti

OMG, what an angel Kiko is. That is an amazing story.
We hear all the time animals saving people or other animals, so I do believe he was alerting you that something is wrong with Romeo. 
Glad Romeo is alright and give Kiko a kiss from me.

Reti


----------



## Ede-bird

Good boy Kiko!!!!


----------



## Cyreen

I have no doubt they are aware and talking to us - we just have to learn to listen. Good job to both you and Kiko!


----------



## doveone52

That is so touching! Hugs and kisses to Kiko, the little life saver!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Thanks ya'll!! We're still giving Kiko the hero's treatment around here, but he doesn't seem to be letting it go to his head. I had not been giving them pine nuts (his absolute favorite treat) much since they jumped from $3 to $8 an ounce!  But he definately got some for being such a good boy.


----------



## Reti

He sure deserves it

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I still adore him, but.... I cut my tennis short yesterday since I was still pretty worried about leaving Romeo home alone, but today I stayed for both day and night sessions. I was gone for about 10 hours. Now yesterday, I had bought Kiko and Kalani a little Easter treat. When I got home tonight, Kiko had decided Easter should come early! I guess he didn't like being left alone for so long. The bag was full and closed when I left!
View attachment 19176


----------



## Reti

LOLOLOLOL, that sure kept him busy. What a sweet, adorable character he is. Gotta love him.
He is so unbelievable smart.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

He sure keeps me on my toes! I had gotten the "easter grass" to use in their April nest. They have green felt strips in honor of St Patty's day for March.  I also got Romeo an Easter treat, but to be honest I don't make him wait for his treats (I just don't know how long he has days/weeks/months/years?), so maybe Kiko felt jipped by that. 

When I walked in the door tonight he was standing on the counter next to his accomplishment. As soon as he saw me he started bobbing, cooing, circling, neck stretching and tail dragging. Now if Romeo had done something like this he would have "acted" guilty, but not Kiko. Oh no, he was completely unrepentant! I already had my camera on me since I was coming in from the tennis tournament so I got a shot of him in action.


----------



## Reti

Now why would he feel guilty? He is proud of his accomplishments, of course there is nothing wrong with getting his treats early. LOL. He is such an amazing pigeon.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL yes he was very proud. Having never had birds before, I continue to be amazed at how clever and rambunctious they are. Wow and you have 6!


----------



## Reti

I had much more but had to give them up, but I will get them back hopefully soon.
They are amazing, each one with it's own personality and antics. They are so lovable.

Reti


----------



## Podgy's Mum

WOW, just read the Romeo rescue story - that was beautiful! What a clever boy you have Beth!

I love the Easter paper - I will need to buy some for Podgy to line his box so that he can keep his cat jingle ball warm! hee hee. I have noticed he likes to collect bright pink 'post it' notes so I had better make sure the Easter paper is pink!

Dana


----------



## Podgy's Mum

just went back and read your posts regarding worms in seeds -eeewww! So far I haven't noticed anything creepy here. Podgy seems to prefer budgie seed. I bought the small parakeet seeds (with sunflower and safflower seeds) for awhile - he seemed to love the safflower for ages but has now gone off them. He pecks through his seed mix, takes the budgie type seeds and leaves the rest. It is impossible to buy decent pigeon mix here. The only type I have been able to find is full of large seeds that he just isn't interested in.

A question about worming our birds - what type of wormer do you girls use? 

Dana


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL Is Kalani cheering for Rafa or Roger?  I'm not sure, but her timing was just so perfect! I told you how much Kalani likes to watch TV and whatever is on my computer screen right? Also, her habit has been to come off her eggs in the eveing (the past 3 to 4 days she's come out at around 9PM). So here is the really funny thing. She was on her eggs, at 7PM I turned on ESPN to watch the Rafael Nadal vs Rodger Federer tennis game. No sooner had I turned the channel on but here comes Kalani! She flew to the back of the chair that just happens to have the best view of the TV!!  LOLOLOLOLOL. I guess I need to print out 8x10 pics of Rafa and Rodger and put them up inside her nest box . Soooo funny. I wonder how they would feel about having a pigeon as a fan. That's my girl! hehehehehe


----------



## Reti

LOL, she is a Tennis fan, omg, you have some amazing pigeons there. None of mine are interested in TV. I had a couple they loved to lounge on the couch and watch whatever, but I had to give them up. I so miss them.

Why don't you record one of the games and when you're not home let them watch it over and over

Dana, I use Ivomec injectable. It works great for a wide variety of worms.
Had to laugh imagining Podgy keeping his cat jingle bell ball warm. They are so funny.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I wonder what would happen if I put a bell inside a tennis ball


----------



## Cyreen

I like Kiko's Easter picture, defending his turf ~ LOL!


----------



## Podgy's Mum

Hiya everybody,
Here's something I found interesting & thought you might too.... Podgy had been really cranky the last week or so and very loving toward his cat jingle ball. Well, the past couple of days have been different - he's been quite social to everyone again and even his biting has been kept to a minimum . So, came home tonight to discover that his jingle ball has been kicked out of the nest - Do you think he realised it wasn't going to hatch? Or maybe s/he is over the 'hormone' stage and we have nice Podgy again until next month??  Hmmm, wish I knew what s/he was!! Still no eggs but lots of puffing, cooing and parading. He's discovered the mirror near his cage now and prefers me to leave the top down and his little side door open instead. This way he can sit on top of the cage and admire his reflection. Too cute.

Also, another thing we've noticed about our pidgy is that to everyone else he can be an 'attack pigeon' depending on his mood or crankily tolerant so long as you don't try to pet him! But toward my 2 yo son he is very patient and rather than bite, he will move away if he has had enough attention/poking/kissing etc. I am always very watchful where little eyes and faces are concerned but for some reason Nathanael can get away with anything that no way anyone else would! Podgy will even hop in the bath occasionally with my littlest and puts up with the squeals of delight and splashes in the face that come with this 'not so relaxing' bathing experience. Today I took photos of Podgy sunbathing on the back of the sofa after his 'boy & bird' bath, with Nathanael draped over the sofa with him kissing his back. Very funny - yes, Beth, I am still working on the photo problem and will have pictures for you soon!!!!!!! I PROMISE!!! 

G'night everyone... I am on my way to bed just as you are all waking up! I'll have you know that this has now become my very enjoyable first thing in the morning & last thing at night activity! A cup of tea & a Pidgy chat!! What could be better?? 
Dana


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL... Ah, you read my mind Dana I do love a good pigeon pic. 

That is so cute about Nathanael and Podgy's special bond. I wonder if Podgy is being protective of Nathanael when he is in the bath. I know that when I am doing anything with Romeo (grooming, bathing etc) both Kiko and Kalani are right there watching every move I make. It's like they know that he is the baby of the family. It sounds like Podgy is in protective mode with Nathanael. 

I guess we will just have to wait until Podgy decides to clue us in on whether he is a Mr. or a Miss. 

Beth


----------



## Reti

That is so sweet, I am sure Podgy is protective of the little baby, just like K&K with Romeo. They know they can't bite babies or hurt them, their parental insticts kick in when they see babies or something baby-like.

My Tiny will also look in the mirror and admire himself for ever and ever. He is funny when he goes to the big bathroom mirror preening his feathers, making sure every feather is in place.

Reti


----------



## Podgy's Mum

Morning Beth - noticed your little green dot was on! 
Dana


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Goodmorning/evening Dana,

It's amazing how much I still do not know about pigeons after 9 months! I had popped myself a bag of lightly buttered microwave popcorn and settled in to watch the ladies finals tennis match this afternoon. The phone rang and I put my bowl of popcorn (it smelled so good and was still warm!) on the counter to answer the phone. Kiko flew over and landed right on the edge of the bowl and dumped it all out onto the counter and floor! He then proceed to flick popcorn everywhere and start to eat the unpopped kernals. I wasn't sure if he could have those or not so I swept it all up and threw it in the trash Did I mention how good it smelt? Good thing I didn't let him have more than he got, cuase I asked and microwave type popcorn is not good for them to have. Guess I'll be breaking out the air-pop popcorn maker now. 

I was thinking about Podgy today and rereading some of your posts about him. It sure seems like he's a boy to me. He sounds a lot like Kiko (not that I would wish such a mischievous pigeon on you ). Can you tell I am still a little bummed out about my bowl of popcorn?

Beth


----------



## Podgy's Mum

LOLLOLLOL, My eldest son was sitting at the table working on some fractions  he was listening to his Ipod at the same time - Podgy came along and decided the cords to the headphones would make good nesting material. After having a good chew and shake of the cords he flew off with them in his beak towards his cage (which is right next to the table in our dining/school room.) Jaidyn had his head pulled over as Podgy came to the end of the length! Soooooo funny!!!!!! 

After that little escapade, Podgy noticed the sticky post it notes in Jai's workbook - and they were PINK!! His favorite colour. Well enough to say they didn't last long in the book, they are now in his cage. 

OH my gosh..... my sister just yelled at me to come and look at what he was doing (I was busy typing to you...) He had picked up a loose pair of headphones and was flying around the lounge room with them!!! Of course I raced to get my camera but as soon as I stand there he is watching me carefully and not performing as required! He doesn't like the Papparazi!! 

I love my bird!!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I promise I am laughing with you and not at you, lolololololol  Podgy sounds soooooo much like Kiko, he's just got to be a boy. I wonder what it is about head phone cords and cameras? Kiko has that same obsession/dislike. I try so hard to get evidence of his mischief, but its like he has radar and stops to look all innocent the second I turn on the camera! 

Here is the states, the Professional Rodeo Cowboys have a special night to support breast cancer and their ad reads "Tough enough to wear pink". Maybe Podgy wants to be a cowboy when he grows up  hehehehe


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Another coinsedence or I have a Rafa fan?!  So today the men's tennis finals (in Miami) are playing (yesterday was the women's finals at the same time of day). Yesterday Kalani did not come out when I turned on the game and there is no reason she would have as she never comes off her eggs this early. Today I turned on the tennis match and (no joke) guess who came off her eggs?! Rafa is playing today (as he was the other day when she did the same thing), so I guess she's a Rafa fan!!!!  Kiko, by the way, was not happy with her change in schedule,lol


----------



## Reti

She is definately a Rafa fan LOL. Bet Kiko is not happy about it

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

He sure did his best to try to make her go back to the nest At one point during the game (after Kalani finally gave in and went back to the nest) Kiko perched on the TV(not his usual perch) and started making what I call is annoyed voo voo sound (he makes this sound when he is challenging Romeo for his cookies and they are in a standoff). I'm just guessing that he wasn't trying to say Go Rafa, Go Rafa hehehehehe


----------



## Reti

LOL, I am sure that's what he was saying. Someone else taking the attention away from him? He can't let that happen

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I think Kiko's jealousy brought out the beast in him! Yesterday was day 17 for the eggs and Kalani is very deligent about staying on them for exaxtly 18 full days. That means today is the last day she will sit on them and tomorrow they would spend the day going back and forth to the eggs and just being together alot (no hanky panky). Well, ever since last night, Kiko has been trying to run her out of the nest and or course Kalani is not ready. At first I thought he wanted to take his turn, but nope. The first time she came out he pounced on her (horny little devil!!!) no foreplay, no sweet cooing, no nothing, just clap-clap-clap (his wings) here I am baby. She is clearly not interested yet, but Kiko does not seem to know or care. We were up all night long thanks his very loud antics We've tried putting them in seperate rooms, turing on the lights, turning off all the light, giving Kiko a cold shower (that slowed him down a little bit), but nothing seems to work. Poor Kalani, she spent her whole night either fighting him off, what sounded like her yelling at him (never heard her be so loud before) or flying away from him. Once she flew over to me, landed on the arm of the chair, sort of backed behind my shoulder and just looked up at me. The look she gave me was like "What is wrong with him?". Meanwhile, I am so sleepy and just a tiny bit cranky with Kiko. This may be a long week ahead (or very short if Kiko gets his way)


----------



## Reti

lol, Kiko rules the house. He is jealous, that's what it is, he is worried Kilani will leave him for that Tennis player. LOL.
He is so funny. Poor Kalani has to put up with his moods and antics.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL, he's about to rule the cage out on the balcony if he doesn't behave Does Tiny or Andrew ever do this to Angel and Whitney? I wonder if the change in the weather has had anyting to do with it (for those not in Miami, it has been sunny and low 80 for weeks, but today a storm has moved in and it is raining, thunder and lightening)?


----------



## Reti

Angel is not laying eggs for years now so there is no change in their behavior. As for Andrew he is the alfa male here, he will boss everybody around including me but not Whitney LOL, she rules him. Whitney had a hysterectony some years ago but she still loves to sit on dummy eggs I give her. It happened a few times she gets up from the egg after a week or so, maybe she wasn't in the mood to sit, who knows.
Since they are indoor birds, I don't think the weather has anything to do with this behavior, besides there isn't much change here, or who knows. 
I wish I knew what they are thinking Sometimes they do strange things

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

...and speaking of doing strange things... 

While they were off chasing each other, I popped in to take a pic of the nest (March 18 - April 4)and eggs (wooden) they just finished sitting on today. Do you notice anything strange in there? Yep, that's a $5 dallor bill  How and when, I guess, will remain a mystery, but I'll give you one guess as to the who.

View attachment 19238


----------



## Doves1111

That's so funny...!!!

Dawn


----------



## Reti

OMG, that is too funny

Reti


----------



## Quazar

maybe theyre saving up for their old age - its their "nest egg" lol


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Quazar said:


> maybe theyre saving up for their old age - its their "nest egg" lol


 LOL  Oh that's great! hahahahahaha Maybe someone was hinting for an allowance


----------



## Doves1111

Quazar said:


> maybe theyre saving up for their old age - its their "nest egg" lol


Saving for their "nest egg"...that's it...good one Quazar...!!!

Dawn


----------



## Luffy

I am sure that was kiko


----------



## Lynnwood Lofts

LOLOLOL!!!!  Too funny!!!!!!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I decided to give Kalani a little something to make her long hours in her nest box more interesting, so when I cleaned/redid their nest for this next batch of eggs I put up a pic of Rafa.  That was Tuesday and Kiko has spent the last two days looking for a new nest!!! I kept encouraging him to his "official" nest box but he was having none of it. So earlier today I took the pic down ( sorry Kalani) and viola Kiko gets in the nest box a few hours later and calls for Kalani to join him.


----------



## Reti

OMG, that is hilarious. I read somewhwere that pigeons DO regognize people in pictures. 
I used to have a little picture of my husband on my desk. Every single time Tiny was out he would throw it on the floor until I put it away. I don't want to upset my Tiny.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Go Tiny! LOL Talking about being jealous... It sounds like Tiny has a big jealous streak when it come to sharing his women!!! How did he treat your husband when he was actually around Tiny? 

So far Kiko has only shown his jealousy towards George once. G was giving me a goodbye kiss and Kiko flew over to his shoulder and started pecking at his cheek and wing slapping him rather violently I know I shouldn't have laughed, but I did. Nothing like the overpossesive attention of a pigeon to make you feel special


----------



## Reti

LOL, how funny. They are quite possesive, huh? 
How did George take it? 
Tiny and Lee mostly ingnore eachother. When I am not around he will perch on Lee's shoulder.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

George loves them almost as much as I do. He had pigeons when he was growing up, so nothing they do seems to bother him. G is so patient with Kiko's antics.. He really doesn't get to see Kalani much though so she is pretty shy around him. When Kalani is on her eggs, she is off of them when G is at work, so the ony time he really gets to spend with her is during the 5ish days between batches of eggs. Of course, Kiko makes sure that neither one of us gets much time with her during that time. 

How does Lee feel about being "the other man". 

It's been a little boring around here this week since K & K have eyes only for each other right now.


----------



## Poulette

*Jealous and smart!*

Since my pigeon often see me at the computer, if I let him alone a few minutes, he jumps on it and look at the screen with great attention. 
I put this wallpaper for him  http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html


----------



## Reti

Poulette said:


> Since my pigeon often see me at the computer, if I let him alone a few minutes, he jumps on it and look at the screen with great attention.
> I put this wallpaper for him  http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html



He has to know what could possibly be more interesting than him


Oh, Lee got used to it by now. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Poulette said:


> Since my pigeon often see me at the computer, if I let him alone a few minutes, he jumps on it and look at the screen with great attention.
> I put this wallpaper for him  http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html


Love your wallpaper! Does he make any noises like he is trying to get the other birds attention? Too funny. What's your pigeon's name? My Kalani loves the computer too, but Kiko is only interested in plucking off the little red mouse button .


----------



## Poulette

His name is Dodu (means chubby). He loves to walk on the keybord and open many windows, Quick play player, etc. 
I will take a picture soon, maybe he is a spy?...


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

They can pack a lot of smarts into those tiny little brains, can't they? I continue to be amazed at how clever they are. I look forward to seeing a pic of Dodu.


----------



## Poulette

Oh this is Dodu, not at the computer, but in the kitchen, taking a bath 

http://pets.webshots.com/album/579601937LykzpW


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Great pics. I'm not sure what is the funniest: All the water he is splashing all over the place or your cat watching every move Dodu is making. LOL Who are the other babies in the pics?


----------



## Poulette

This cat in not mine! The doves are with me since 10 years  my little angels, Colombeau and Capucine


----------



## catmicky

Are Kiko and Kalani brother and sister? ( just wondering )


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

catmicky said:


> Are Kiko and Kalani brother and sister? ( just wondering )


Yep. Since they don't get out to "make other friends" they bonded with each other. They started getting together around the 4th month. Kiko "mates with just about everything that moves and some things that don't , so he is very happy with Kalani. Since I switch the eggs with dummies, all has worked out well. Kiko seems to be more attached to Kalani than the other way around. She definately seeks him out and flirts outrageously, but she also has an indipendent streak that seems to frustrate Kiko alot.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Poulette said:


> *This cat is not mine!* The doves are with me since 10 years  my little angels, Colombeau and Capucine


Oh, in that case, the cat watching Dodu so intently is definately the funniest !


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Feathers, feathers, feathers...... Well, Kalani laid her egg yesterday and is set to lay the next sometime tomorrow. Kiko is shedding feathers like crazy (no flight feathers but some larger ones as well as lots and lots of smaller feathers). He seems to be doing this every month for the first week after the eggs are laid. Kalani does not seem to be lossing any that I can tell. 

He seems to be showing a new interest is eating carrots and celery (tiny bits), but Kalani shows no interest in veggies. (are tiny bits of celery OK for him?). He also wants my attention again now that Kalani is otherwise engaged. He made a huge fuss of clappping, bobbing and cooing when I came back from the store today (gone for less than 2 hours).


----------



## Reti

Another egg? Oh sure she is busy, huh?

Dodu is so cute taking his bath and the doves are gorgeous. And the cat watching them is so funny.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Kalani has pretty much stayed in her nest box all day today and Kiko's had a split personality all day. He is either super sweet, affectionate, attentive, playful or being violently aggressive with his pecking attacks. He literally chased me through the house twice today (and I wasn't even anywhere near their nest!). Once I reached safety before he got me and the second time I didn't run fast enough and he caught me, ouch a few hours later and he was leaning against my leg sound asleep.  Meanwhile the feathers continue to fall and fall and fall.


----------



## Reti

LOL, you could say he is bipolar
Seems like there is always somebody molting here too. There are feathers all over the place, always.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Bipolar with a side of multi personality. I think he thinks he's a bunny He started hopping last night and is still doing it today. Maybe I should take the easter grass away.


----------



## Reti

Lol' he is watching too much TV. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Maybe it was the carrots he just started eating


----------



## Reti

Ahhh, that's what it is

Does he really eat carrots? My guys won't touch that.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Kiko investigates everything I eat. This past Sunday, I was eating carrot sticks and he started pecking at the bag. I chipped off a tiny bit and was surprised when he ate it and begged for more. So, everyday since I have chopped up carrots and he has been eating them. The only thing is that I have to cut them into really, really tiny bits. Kalani, on the other hand, wants nothing to do with them.


----------



## Reti

Well, good for him. He knows what's healthy

Reti


----------



## Hubertnawrot

*Old and new rings for the collector around Polish *

Hi Reverence I am a collector of rings of ancestral pigeons and I wanted to know whether you have perhaps some if this way squeak . I from Poland


----------



## Hubertnawrot

plis to write on pigeon talcum powder


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Hubertnawrot said:


> plis to write on pigeon talcum powder


Hi Hubertnawrot and welcome to pigeon talk. I do not have any rings and do not know anything about pigeon talcum powder. There are a lot of knowelegable folks on this site, so I would recommend you post your questions in the general discussion forum where more people will see your post. Good luck!

Beth


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Reti said:


> Well, good for him. He knows what's healthy
> 
> Reti


LOL, oh don't tell him they are healthy, he'll never eat them again  You would not believe the meassures I have to take to keep him and Kalani away from any coffee grounds. Lately, I have just stopped drinking coffee totally. I know it is bad for them, but they must think it is like candy!


----------



## Reti

Never heard of them liking coffee
It's funny how we adjust our lives acording to them.
Tiny used to have a sip of green tea here and there, so we buy the decaf tea now. 

Ok, I won't tell him Maybe he'll convince Kalani to eat them also.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

hahahahahah.... Convincing Kalani of anything would require him to have even the slightest say in what she does.  

Tiny is so sophisticated, having a spot of tea!


----------



## Reti

Oh yeah and he thinks we put it out for him only 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

He should have his own little tea cup (like an espresso cup) Tiny's Tea Time, hey that has a nice ring to it!


----------



## Reti

LOL, haven't thought of that. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Will Tiny share with Angel? If not, she needs her own tiny tea cup. Now that would be a great pic of you, Lee, Tiny and Angel sitting down for tea time


----------



## Reti

LOL, yeah, would be a nice pic.
Angel is not much interested in tea though.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I need your opinion. I have read the thread about poop but no clear answer. K & K are in full molt, I keep their food out all day for them to eat as they want and they both eat and drink throughout the day, there are split peas and colored (green, red, purple and yellow) pellets in their feed in addition to the rest, their first poopy of the day is normal (though kalani's is huge and smelly after being on the nest for 18 hours). The quesiton I have is about their poopy the rest of the day. It is slighty greener than normal and has a lot of clear water with it. Does that sound OK?


----------



## Reti

I noticed the poops vary throughout the day. I guess it depends on what they eat. Have you noticed they eat more of the green pellets or greep peas? Also they might be drinking more water, it is getting hot. That could be one reason. 

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I really can't tell for sure how many of the peas and green pellets they each eat. There are also green (what the bag says they actually look gray to me) lentils. I have noticed that there are blue colored safflower seeds that they do eat. One thing that has changed this week as been the sunflower hearts. I couldn't find the unsalted roasted ones so I bought the raw unsalted. They look greener than the roasted. As for water, they drink about a cup of water a day total combined between the two of them. That is their norm and has not changed this passed week. Does that sound normal? I looked inside both of their mouths and both are pretty and pink. Kiko's poopy has more water than Kalani's but Kalani's is greener than Kiko's. Kiko started moulting first and has been moulting more than Kalani, though Kalani has been shedding more flight feathers than Kiko. Am I just being over protective?

P.S. Kiko just poopied and it was all clear water with a little bit of white (no actual poop at all).


----------



## Reti

Yeah, I think you are overprotective LOL
The poops change in my birds too, sometimes they are more watery or greener or browner. I wouldn't worry unless you see additional signs of anything being wrong. Plus the stress of moulting might be also a factor.

Someone once said that anything roasted for pigeons isn't good, they can't digest it. I don't know how true this is, just thought I mention it.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Ah, good to know about the roasted stuff, thanks. I'll watch for any other signs with Kiko just in case, but it sounds like he's fine then. 

Kalani was so, so funny tonight. We came back from Publix and started to unload the groceries. We put the bags on the counter. She flew over and started sticking her nosey little head inside every bag. She was very interested in the beer bottles (little lush). I gave her lettuce and she was eating it, until I pulled the new bag of pine nuts out of the shopping bag. Not sure how she knew what they were put she did., so she got pine nuts.


----------



## Reti

LOL, she knew you brought something just for her
They are so smart.

How are the poops today?

Reti


----------



## Quazar

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Kalani was so, so funny tonight. We came back from Publix and started to unload the groceries. We put the bags on the counter. She flew over and started sticking her nosey little head inside every bag.


maybe she thinks shes a dog lol 



Kiko&Kalani said:


> She was very interested in the beer bottles (little lush). I gave her lettuce and she was eating it, until I pulled the new bag of pine nuts out of the shopping bag. Not sure how she knew what they were put she did., so she got pine nuts.


Its funny, lots of folk say pigeons dont have that good a sense of smell, but when snoopy used to come & go, he would arrive & head straight for the food containers no matter where they were, and always stop at the one with peanuts in. Boxes were identical, even swapped contents & lids, but he always got the peanuts.
Unless he had x-ray vision lol


----------



## Luffy

Kiko&Kalani said:


> her nosey little head


lol , should have been real funny to watch.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

*Is that you mom and dad?*

It's a good thing they both had baths with ACV (so they looked their best), because they had visitors today. A family reunion  Their mom and dad landed on the balcony today! 

A little background:
I had put a few seeds and water out for this little dove that started coming on the balcony the past few days. It would come right up to the balcony door and just hang out there (tiny little thing all by itself). I put the seeds/water under a chair and right next to the door. I knew the dove would see it (since it's where it hangs out) and hoped that other birds would not (1 condo rules and 2 others might bully the little guy away). 

The reason I believe it was Kiko and Kalani's parents is that they were originally on the 7th floor before the flower pot with K & K was thrown away. I had originally (naive thinking on that first day I found K & K) hoped to get the parents to come down to our balcony and take over the nest here, so I watched them and tried to lure them down. Of course, that did not work but I saw that they relocated to a 6th floor balcony. When Kiko escaped back in November, I kept mistaking him for what would turn out to be one of his parents that kept flying back to the 6th floor. Also, they are much darker than the other pigeons that nest around our block. 

OK, back to the reunion. 
I was in the kitchen fixing Romeo's food (so of course Kiko was right there with me investigating as usual) when I saw the little dove up on the rail of the balcony (usually it's on the floor and rarely the rail, so I thought that was a little odd) and that's when I saw what looked like the twin of Kiko! At first I thought it was the male, but then I saw its much bigger and slightly lighter (just like Kalani) mate! (Kiko is a blue black/blue gray with bright white color and Kalani is an off black taupe/gray with light gray color). 

I told Kiko, "I think your parents are on the balcony Kiko" then I motioned to the balcony and said "Go say hi Kiko". At that point (cuase surely he did not understand a word I was saying) he saw them and started looking intently. He flew over to his perch (in front of the screen door) and stood real tall and still. The father saw him first and walked a little closer and looked at him. The mother was over at the edge of the balcony. Kiko started to strut his stuff (coo, circle, bob up and down, but not drag his tail and not reall loud like he does sometimes). The male just listened and the female came closer and looked at Kiko. I tried to get to my camera to catch a picture, but as soon as I turned the camera on (and it made that turn on noise) Kiko flew back to me, clapping all the way. They stayed on the balcny for a few more minutes before flying away. 

Unfortunately, Kalani was on her eggs and missed the whole thing. But after flying over to me, Kiko flew over to their nest and started making a fuss. I guess he was telling her all about his encounter. I'm hoping they come back and I get a pic of them all together someday. How exciting!


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

*Kiko and his parents*

They came back and I got photos and videos of Kiko's reunion with his parents. I was in the other room when I heard a coo that sounded different than Kiko or Kalani. I went to seeif maybe something was wrong with Kiko and saw his parents on the balcony. Kiko had already gone over to investigate. I grabbed the camera and started taking pics and videos. 

Mom stayed on the balcony rail the whole time and just watched (no cooing). Dad (has the same 3 color chest as Kalani) was very excited. He flew from chair to chair, to the floor, back up to the chair, over to the table and over to land (cling) on the screen directly in front of Kiko (did this many times). The dad would coo (sounds different from Kiko's) and walk around, but no bobbing, circling or tail dragging. Kiko was doing it all (neck stretch, tail drag, circling, stomping, cooing, bobbing). He never tried to charge the dad and the dad never tried to peck at Kiko through the screen. He just clung to the screen and looked at Kiko. Every now and then, Kiko would stop strutting his stuff and just look from one (dad) to the other (mom). Kiko did not back away at all, he stood his ground. 

I guess I finaly got too close, because they both spooked and flew off. After the encounter, Kiko was doing his voo, voo chant and stayed put on top of my head. 

Do you think they recognized each other. Other pigeons have landed on our balcony (though not recently) and Kiko has never acted like that. In fact he has always seemed uninterested in other birds. 

Here's a pic:
View attachment 19497


----------



## Reti

How cool They got all excited meeting again. I do think they recognized each other from being from the same flock but I don't think they know they are related. I think after the babies leave and move on with their lives they don't have the notion of being related.
I think Kiko was thinking "I know you guys, don't think you can come in here and share my home, THIS is MY territory"

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL, I think that's exactly what Kiko was saying They came back again today (around 5PM) and ate and drank. They eat so much faster than K & K. Kiko saw them before we did. He flew over and quietely just watched them eating for a while. After eating, the mom went back to the edge of the balcony and the dad started flying up to the chairs again. I had moved a chair closer to the screen so he wouldn't cling on the screen and he seemed to like sitting on the arm right in front of Kiko. He just watched and cooed as Kiko strutted his stuff. Kiko was a little calmer today and so was the dad. That is until Kalani came out to see what was going on. In a split second they went from just watching each other to an ear splitting clapping sound and Kiko landing next to Kalani. In the same split second the parent where gone. 

As I am typign this the daddy bird just flew back and is on the chair in front of the screen looking for Kiko and doing the voo voo call. And there comes the mom. Oh, and Kiko just flew in to his perch. The daddy looks fatter than Kiko. They seem to be taking turns talking. One will coo and bop then the other. Kiko is much calmer in this encounter and is no longer dragging his tail. Mom's over on the rail just watching.

They're doing a sycronized head bobbing now. This is so exciting.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Wow, K & K's parents are either starving (doesn't look like it) or little piglets; they eat 3 times more than K & K combined. Should I keep putting feed out for them so they can eat as much as they want/need or just put a set amount out each day? I don't want to make them sick by feeding them too much. I don't have this problem with K & K since they are so picky, so this is new for me. How much is a good rule of thumb for two feral pigeons to be eating each day? So far though they have not drank any of the water I have put out beside the feed. I used a clear plastic bowl, so maybe I will change the bowl to a crock style and see if that helps. The daddy came back this morning to eat without the mom (guessing she's in egg mode now). I moved a table over in front of Kiko's perch (on the other side of the screen) so they can both be on the same level and hang out together. 

Oh, daddy's back. He just flew to the table and started voo voo. No sign of the mom. Off to observe.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

Hmmm.... Not sure how this visit is really going. The daddy bird seemed to come here just to be around Kiko (showing no interest in food). Things were relatively calm at first, then Kiko got a little aggressive and threw the first punch (wing slap). They seem to be going in and out of light sparring (wing slaps and mild pecks at the screen) and just standing watching each other. They have both stopped cooing. Is this a good sign that they are learning to be flock mates? 

Besides the visits to the park flock back when they were1 to 2 months old, K & K have not had any interaction with other pigeons. I thought this would be good for them to learn to be with other birds while having me and the screen to play refuree. I'm not planning on ever letting K & K out, but maybe it would be good for them to have some "bird social" skills in case they get out by accident. I don't want to stress Kiko out though. Do you think this is a good lesson for Kiko? He seems very confident and unaffraid. In fact, if I had to say which bird was "in charge" it would definately be Kiko.

Oh, mom just showed up and is on the table (closest she has ever been to Kiko). She just watches quietly.


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

They had flown off and come back several times. They (the parents) seem to want to be here with Kiko. They are all pretty calm now. Kiko has even started to groom himself standing right in front of the dad. The mom is now sitting down on the table. 

I guess I'm going to need to come up with a coupld of names.  Any ideas?


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

LOL, I think we have a little bro-mance going on here. The dad just can't get enough and has spent more time here today than away. He seems fascinated with Kiko. If Kiko is not at the door, the dad will fly up to the screen and start voo vooing for him. 

I'm definately going to need to come up with those names. I was thinking Aloha for the mom (since Kiko (crysanthimum) and Kalani (heavenly) are hawaiian names). I'm at a loss for the dad though.


----------



## Reti

How fun to watch them interact. I think the parents saw pigeons living in your apartment and figured it is safe to hang out in that place. The seeds are a plus.
Ferals will eat more and faster than pet pigeons. They don't know where the next meal will come from and if it will come, and they do eat fast, before other pigeons arrive to the scene. I feel bad for them. But your parent birds look good so they do find a source of food.
Everytime I introduced a new bird to my gang, they will do the territorial stuff then they settle down. Seems like your guys did just that. 
I hope K & K will never be able to escape, they would have a hard time adjusting out there.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

If daddyis not calling Kiko, Kiko is voo vooing for daddy! Daddy came back a while ago and is just hanging out (kind of ignoring Kiko) on the table next to Kiko. Kiko is actually laying down right next to the daddy (only inches apart but with the screen door between them)! That's so sweet.


----------



## Birds

Looks like you have two pair's now . This is way cool . I think Reti is right about the recognition issue . Although , I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they are kin and know it .


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I feel kindof bad that I keep the screen door between them, but I dont' want to have them in the house and expose my babies to anything and I am sure not letting K & K outside on the balcony, so ....

They hung out until it started to get dark then flew off. Because Kalani does not come off her eggs until around 8PM, she has not interacted with them yet (just two very quick potty breaks, but I don't think she even saw them). She comes off her eggs in about 2 weeks. By then I am guessing that the other three will be buds. I wonder what Kiko will do when Kalani starts to be around the others? 

My camera battery died today, so I am recharging for tomorrow. I hope to get new pics.


----------



## Reti

Kiko has new friends, how exciting I am sure Kilani won't object to their presence. Femles are ususally more tolerant of newcomers.
Better not to let them interact directly, it is not excluded they are carriers of something.
Looking fw to more pics.

Reti


----------



## Kiko&Kalani

I think Kiko is having a tough time with Romeos death. He's usually my little noise maker all day long, but today he was so quiet. He was with us for the final moments of Romeo's life and watched while we tried to revive him. Afterward, we let him sit on top of Romeo so he would know he was gone. He just sat there and looked at him for a long while. When we went to pick Romeo up to put him in a container, Kiko got very violent with us (he drew blood from me). He's normally out all day until around 7 or 8PM, when Kalani comes off her eggs, but when we got home around 3:30PM today he was on the eggs and Kalani was out (still is). He usually sits on the eggs for about 4 to 5 hours. We left at 11am and not sure when he went on the eggs, but it has been already 7 hours at the least. Usually, we can't go into the bedroom without him watching every move we make (protecting his nest area), but so far he has been completely still and quiet inside his nest box. Poor baby. 

I'm not sure if Kalani even knows Romeo is missing yet, but she seems a little confused by the rest of our behaviors today and has been a little aggitated (not as calm as she usually is). She is always sensitive to any of us not feeling well, so I am sure she is responding to our moods.


----------



## Reti

Poor Kiko, I think animals are very receptive to what is going on in the home they live. And I think they know and understand when someone dies. 
I am so sorry for your loss.

Reti


----------

