# Danish Tipplers



## AZCorbin

Whats the deal with Danish Tips? Are they a different breed than the standard English Tippler? Or is it like what the Canadians and New Yorkers refer to as 'Canadian' Tipplers which are really just a normal print tippler which the Canadians happens to breed a lot of and somehow people call it that even though it is not at all?


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Whats the deal with Danish Tips? Are they a different breed than the standard English Tippler? Or is it like what the Canadians and New Yorkers refer to as 'Canadian' Tipplers which are really just a normal print tippler which the Canadians happens to breed a lot of and somehow people call it that even though it is not at all?


Here is an article I found on the Danish Tippler...

The Danish Tippler


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## AZCorbin

Thanks for those articles. 
So am I getting this right that it is in fact a tumbler and not a tippler at all?

Looks like it


> The “DT” started out as a color pattern in The Dutch high Flyer Group of Bottlenose Dolphins Tumbler Pigeons


https://sites.google.com/site/devotedtohighflyers/home/Dutch-High-Flyer-Breeds/the-danish-tippler


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Thanks for those articles.
> So am I getting this right that it is in fact a tumbler and not a tippler at all?
> 
> Looks like it
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/devotedtohighflyers/home/Dutch-High-Flyer-Breeds/the-danish-tippler


Remember all Tipplers & Rollers,,, ETC, ETC are all Tumblers but they are different Strains of the Tumbler fam...


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## rpalmer

AZCorbin said:


> Whats the deal with Danish Tips? Are they a different breed than the standard English Tippler? Or is it like what the Canadians and New Yorkers refer to as 'Canadian' Tipplers which are really just a normal print tippler which the Canadians happens to breed a lot of and somehow people call it that even though it is not at all?


I don't know if this will help you or not but thought you might like checking it out. Take care. http://www.tipplers.com/


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## AZCorbin

Well that has been debated...
My only point is people call print tipplers Canadian tipplers when in fact it is only a certain color of English tippler made popular in Canada.

It seems like people try to separate Tipplers into their own category of Pigeon like Rollers, or Tumblers. I hear 'high flying tippler' or Pakistani tipplers' often
TMK there is only one and that is the English Tippler.
Everything else is just slang or ignorance.


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## AZCorbin

rpalmer said:


> I don't know if this will help you or not but thought you might like checking it out. Take care. http://www.tipplers.com/


Yeah I've been there before. I've come to find out 'Danish Tipplers' are not a real breed of Pigeon, rather just a certain color or a certain tumbler breed.
Just slang.

The only real tippler is English tippler, the English show tippler and a German show tippler, which was English and later changed by the Germans.


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Well that has been debated...
> My only point is people call print tipplers Canadian tipplers when in fact it is only a certain color of English tippler made popular in Canada.
> 
> It seems like people try to separate Tipplers into their own category of Pigeon like Rollers, or Tumblers. I hear 'high flying tippler' or Pakistani tipplers' often
> TMK there is only one and that is the English Tippler.
> Everything else is just slang or ignorance.


My understanding and Knowledge is -

1) The word (Print) is a color Pattern that can be seen in many Different Breeds, not just Tipplers...! 

2) (Canadian tipplers) was a phrase-coined by the New Yorkers, Canadian Tipplers have a Med-long face (beak) and they have a smaller black pupil they are very similar in color pattern to the Grizzle prints called Pakistani Tipplers which have a long face (beak) and a slightly larger black pupil. Both (Canadian Tipplers & Pakistani Tipplers) come in Dark & Light Grizzle Prints and the head is sometimes termed Mousey...

3) Now the English Tippler (Print) is a smaller bird that may also have the same color pattern as the (Canadian Tipplers & Pakistani Tipplers) but have alittle more of a rounder head and they come in both Medium & Short Face (beak) with a small black pupil…

Its very hard today to really recognize or distinguish the three types I mentions above here in the USA today, because all, if not many of these 3 breeds have been crossed-mixed with one another, there are not many Pigeon fancier left, or very few here in the USA that have true to types of these breeds in their lofts... But you will find a few old timers that may have a few pairs around... 

Note; This is only my opinion or best guess!!! I think many Pakistani Tipplers that where mixed with English Tipplers in Canada made there way into the USA back in the 40s - 60s though the Canadian border, then they where coined or phrase, Canadian Tipplers… THE END…lol but I really don’t know!!!


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## AZCorbin

Yeah I understand print comes in many breeds, perhaps I should have worded that better.

I was unaware of any physical difference in the English tipplers found in Canada verses elsewhere. 

Pakistani's are not tipplers. They are high flyers and we should not be joining the two words.

Aside from color it is not difficult to tell the two apart. Pakistani high flyers are a larger breed and generally more robust. 
They also solo fly and shoot straight to the pins While the English tipplers kit and sometimes never enter the pins at all.


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Yeah I've been there before. I've come to find out 'Danish Tipplers' are not a real breed of Pigeon, rather just a certain color or a certain tumbler breed.
> Just slang.





> The only real tippler is English tippler, the English show tippler and a German show tippler, which was English and later changed by the Germans.


Its the other way around the English got these Tumblers from the Germans and bred them with other birds & flying styles and then called the new strain Mottle Tipplers...!!! today we recognize the Tippler to be a breed, but like I said earlier, the Tippler is really a Tumbler, its just the strain that's called a Tippler that was phrased by the English they did the same with the rollers they Produced... they are all in the Tumbler Family any one that tell you any different is wrong!!! and the New yorkers called these Mottles with the V in the back with white spots on the wing buts Danish Tipplers, because the Old timers in NY understood that the English mottle tippler was a product and mix-crossing from the flying Dutch Tumblers and they Called the Strain "Danish Tipplers"...


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## AZCorbin

Tiplets said:


> Its the other way around the English got these Tumblers from the Germans and bred them with other birds & flying styles and then called the new strain Mottle Tipplers...!!! today we recognize the Tippler to be a breed, but like I said earlier, the Tippler is really a Tumbler, its just the strain that's called a Tippler that was phrased by the English they did the same with the rollers they Produced... they are all in the Tumbler Family any one that tell you any different is wrong!!! and the New yorkers called these Mottles with the V in the back with white spots on the wing buts Danish Tipplers, because the Old timers in NY understood that the English mottle tippler was a product and mix-crossing from the flying Dutch Tumblers and they Called the Strain "Danish Tipplers"...


I understand many think Tipplers came from tumblers, however there are also many sources to say they have nothing to do with one another.
If a Tippler was just a strain of tumbler they would be the same size and shape yes?
Either way it doesn't matter I have found the answer to my original question. 
Danish tipplers are not a tippler at all just a tumbler...
I don't like to bring slang into these things as it draws up much confusion. Specially in the genetic world.

I have Tipplers in many colors as you know. These birds minus the color are the same.
I had tumblers which are bigger and shaped different.
Rollers look similar to Tipplers however are considerably smaller.
These differences are obvious and easy to tell apart because they different breeds.
However if you get Lovatts, Shannons, Bodens ect their is no physical difference they are all Tipplers


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Yeah I understand print comes in many breeds, perhaps I should have worded that better.
> 
> I was unaware of any physical difference in the English tipplers found in Canada verses elsewhere.
> 
> Pakistani's are not tipplers. They are high flyers and we should not be joining the two words.
> 
> Aside from color it is not difficult to tell the two apart. Pakistani high flyers are a larger breed and generally more robust.
> They also solo fly and shoot straight to the pins While the English tipplers kit and sometimes never enter the pins at all.


You are right, that We should not call the Pakistani high flyer a "Tippler" because they do have different flying Styles, just like you mentioned above!!! I agree!!!

But Pakistani are also a strain apart which are also derived from the Tumbler Family...!


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## AZCorbin

Tiplets said:


> But Pakistani are also a strain apart which are also derived from the Tumbler Family...!


Well I doubt that as well but it doesn't matter.
It makes no sense in saying they are just tumblers. Even if this is the case we don't call tumblers whatever went into them...
We would have no breeds and call everything a Rock Pigeon...

All I'm saying is if it don't tumbler why call it a tumbler?
The English tippler is a world recognized breed and in flying comps or in shows has nothing to do with tumblers. Nor do they look like them.


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin, Please read these old books, by "English Authors", the Creators & Home of where the "TIPPLER" was Born...!!! 
You will find them in "Google Books" and if these dont tell you what I have been telling you all along that Tipplers, Rollers, ETC ETC come from the Tumbler Family... Well, I'm providing you written Proof, If you have any proof, Books, Articles or Names of people that say that they are not from the Tumbler Family please provided me with this Information!!!



The fancy pigeon. 
By JAMES C. LYELL
Year 1887

And

The pigeon standard. 
By Twombly, Clarence E 
Year 1900


Please dont take this as wrong or personal PLEASE this is not my intent!!!... I just want to set the record Straight,,, for all those folks out there that dont Know the truth...!


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## Print Tippler

i think what Corbin was saying is when do you no longer go with where i came from. Now i have some disagreements but most people, and i assume you also believe all fancy pigeons come from rock pigeons. So if you believe tumblers came from no tumblers why not call the tumblers part of the rock pigeon family. Anyways the tippler and even the roller are so far from the tumbler familiy of birds it shouldn't be included. There size and form are much different, let alone tipplers dont tumble.


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## AZCorbin

Don't worry I am not taken any offense. It's the internet after all. =]

People writing things in books proves nothing...

All I am trying to say is you can't just take a breed and call it a tippler.
Tippler is not a style of flying it is a name.
The word tippler does not belong with say rollers and tumblers.
It is not a type of Pigeon it is a specific breed....


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> Don't worry I am not taken any offense. It's the internet after all. =]
> 
> People writing things in books proves nothing...
> 
> All I am trying to say is you can't just take a breed and call it a tippler.
> Tippler is not a style of flying it is a name.
> The word tippler does not belong with say rollers and tumblers.
> It is not a type of Pigeon it is a specific breed....


Well just like the Homer we see today if you trace it back... It was made up of several different breeds one of which was the Cumulet which is also a Tumbler for better Eye sight and its ability to fly all day!!! today though the hybridization of other different breeds & strains the homer is now known as a breed,,, just like the Tippler today is known as a breed today... the NY Flying Flight was also bred from different Tumblers to create the breed we see today it was named a breed , I think some time in the 40s or 50s... the tippler was created and named back in the late 1700s early 1800s also from tumblers... 
and how can you say; "People writing things in books proves nothing" if people didn't write, where would we all be??? Reading is Knowledge, even if proven wrong later but non the less knowledge...! I dont know what you been reading, But like I said,,, Show me the Proof you Have that contradicts what I'm saying... Please!!!


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## AZCorbin

I can not show you proof, however If I wrote a book and said otherwise would that make it true? Not necessarily.
Or what if two books contradict each other?
You are basically saying whatever is wrote in a book is true?

Let me ask you this. What made the tumbler?

EDIT: What I am trying to say is something in a book is not proof. Show me evidence. Maybe some long term breeding records..
Books are one mans opinion.. 
You have no facts.


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## rpalmer

Tiplets said:


> Well just like the Homer we see today if you trace it back... It was made up of several different breeds one of which was the Cumulet which is also a Tumbler for better Eye sight and its ability to fly all day!!! today though the hybridization of other different breeds & strains the homer is now known as a breed,,, just like the Tippler today is known as a breed today... the NY Flying Flight was also bred from different Tumblers to create the breed we see today it was named a breed , I think some time in the 40s or 50s... the tippler was created and named back in the late 1700s early 1800s also from tumblers...
> and how can you say; "People writing things in books proves nothing" if people didn't write, where would we all be??? Reading is Knowledge, even if proven wrong later but non the less knowledge...! I dont know what you been reading, But like I said,,, Show me the Proof you Have that contradicts what I'm saying... Please!!!


If your Tipplers tumble, you have poor birds.


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> I can not show you proof, however If I wrote a book and said otherwise would that make it true? Not necessarily.
> Or what if two books contradict each other?
> You are basically saying whatever is wrote in a book is true?
> 
> Let me ask you this. What made the tumbler?


thats what it all about... go and write your book that contradicts the facts that have been written in these books... thats great do it... I'll read it! I would love to know your version of how the Tippler came to be!!!

The Tumbler gene pool group of birds, is a family of birds, made up of many different type breeds and strains that are closely related... you really should read-up!!!

Its OK AZcorbin, You win... I guess all you need to know is that yes the tippler is a Breed... and nothing else...! I dont want to go into which one came first the Danish Tippler or the Egg...!!!


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## Tiplets

rpalmer said:


> If your Tipplers tumble, you have poor birds.


Yeah thats like saying; What do you call a Roller that doesnt roll???

A Tippler...!


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## AZCorbin

Tiplets said:


> thats what it all about... go and write your book that contradicts the facts that have been written in these books... thats great do it... I'll read it! I would love to know your version of how the Tippler came to be!!!
> 
> The Tumbler gene pool group of birds, is a family of birds, made up of many different type breeds and strains that are closely related... you really should read-up!!!
> 
> Its OK AZcorbin, You win... I guess all you need to know is that yes the tippler is a Breed... and nothing else...! I dont want to go into which one came first the Danish Tippler or the Egg...!!!


You answered nothing in regards to evidence or facts. All you can say is someone wrote it in a book...

Please understand that I am not angry at all...
=]



Tiplets said:


> Yeah thats like saying; What do you call a Roller that doesnt roll???
> 
> 
> A Tippler...!


It is still a roller. Calling them a roller Pigeon is a breed name granted it describes it's flying ability it is still a name so regardless of how it flys it's a roller.
If I took two 100' champion roller and breed them and took their offspring inside and never flew them the breed doesn't magically change to something else.
Or better yet what if I did it to two birds and then bred them inside and took their offspring outside and they did roll? Does that mean two non rollers made a roller? =]


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## Tiplets

AZCorbin said:


> You answered nothing in regards to evidence or facts. All you can say is someone wrote it in a book...
> 
> Please understand that I am not angry at all...
> =]
> 
> It is still a roller. Calling them a roller Pigeon is a breed name granted it describes it's flying ability it is still a name so regardless of how it flys it's a roller.
> If I took two 100' champion roller and breed them and took their offspring inside and never flew them the breed doesn't magically change to something else.
> Or better yet what if I did it to two birds and then bred them inside and took their offspring outside and they did roll? Does that mean two non rollers made a roller? =]


Ok I'm back had to eat...!!! and was watching alittle of the debate on TV... ok here we go....LOL

You have to go and actually READ the Books to understand what I'm talking about...!... I gave you two examples that have information in regards to what I'm talking about... If you dont READ the two books you then cant understand where I'm coming from! You just give me one thing to read of where you get your information from... just give me one!!! tell me how do you know I'm wrong!!! in what I'm saying... you have 2 from me, you give me 1 and I'll give you 2 more!!! Isn't that Fair!!!...lol... I think it is... I know you will not prove me wrong, but I bet I'll prove you and any information you get to be wrong... I have litterature from known pigeon men that backs up what I'm saying in those two books, wheres your Info??? this is what you wrote:



> I understand many think Tipplers came from tumblers, however there are also many sources to say they have nothing to do with one another.


Where are your "Many Sources" provided me not with many... Just One...!!!

And by keeping the rollers cooped up in the loft wont make them stop rollering, you would have to breed the rollers that dont roll well for a few generation's. to the point that they dont roll anymore... when you do that,, you cant call them rollers any more... because they dont roll!!! they would become a different strain... and most likely you would really just have a kit of birds that fly like tipplers... What part of that is so difficult to understand???

and I'll answer to your response Tomorrow...OK


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## AZCorbin

Tiplets said:


> Ok I'm back had to eat...!!! and was watching alittle of the debate on TV... ok here we go....LOL
> 
> You have to go and actually READ the Books to understand what I'm talking about...!... I gave you two examples that have information in regards to what I'm talking about... If you dont READ the two books you then cant understand where I'm coming from! You just give me one thing to read of where you get your information from... just give me one!!! tell me how do you know I'm wrong!!! in what I'm saying... you have 2 from me, you give me 1 and I'll give you 2 more!!! Isn't that Fair!!!...lol... I think it is... I know you will not prove me wrong, but I bet I'll prove you and any information you get to be wrong... I have litterature from known pigeon men that backs up what I'm saying in those two books, wheres your Info??? this is what you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are your "Many Sources" provided me not with many... Just One...!!!
> 
> And by keeping the rollers cooped up in the loft wont make them stop rollering, you would have to breed the rollers that dont roll well for a few generation's. to the point that they dont roll anymore... when you do that,, you cant call them rollers any more... because they dont roll!!! they would become a different strain... and most likely you would really just have a kit of birds that fly like tipplers... What part of that is so difficult to understand???
> 
> and I'll answer to your response Tomorrow...OK


Okay here you go.
Here is a paragraph found in those two links below and probably more.


> As to the origin of the Tippler pigeon we are at a loss for accurate data. According to one theory, the Tippler pigeon is supposed to have been a cross between the Tumbler and the Cumulet in order to improve their flying qualities and give them a larger range of flight, that is, the Tippler pigeon rake more, which keeps them longer on the wing. This long-term flying has helped to get rid of the tumbling properties. There is no doubt that the Tippler pigeon is man-made through selective breeding. They are of Tumbler descent, but beyond this it is merely a matter of speculation.
> _http://www.pigeonvitality.com/tippler-pigeon-for-endurance-competition.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippler#Origin_


Well I don't know who wrote this but it is a little contradictory.
It starts off saying that we are at a loss of accurate data. Speaks of one theory which is the one you speak of.
And then seems to contradict the first statement and says "They are of Tumbler descent"
But wait I thought we were at a loss of data? 
Then finishes by saying everything else is speculation.
So using logic here. If everything else is speculation then there must be facts of Tumbler blood right? (That's rhetorical)

So there are a couple pages stating that it is one theory...
My point is you are basing you knowledge of someone else.
There is no evidence that they came from Tumblers.
Even if every Tippler said so and every Pigeon book as well does not make it true...
And perhaps it is...However I work of facts not mere speculation.

Here is another somewhat non related but does speak about using the term "tippler" to describe any long flying breed. 
http://highflyingpigeon.webs.com/

Response to second half:
Now you changed your wording and stated they would fly 'like' Tipplers but not be Tipplers! Nothing hard to understand about that.

You didn't answer me though.
If I had a pair of champion Rollers that put forth two young.
These two young we lock up and they never roll. So according to you they are not rollers now right?
But when they mate and we fly their young they become rollers again?
Tell me if I am mistaken here I believe this is what you are saying?
The same thing can be said about 'homing/racing' Pigeons...
Here's one for you! If a Hawk breaks his wing and can no longer fly and thus 'hawk' birds or whatever but gets fed its whole life by others is it still a Hawk? =]


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## Tiplets

*Waving the White Flag...!*

I give up!!! I'll just stick with what I believe and know...! I guess we are both steadfast on what we each are willing to understand or what makes sense within ourselves for what ever the reasons may be... I found that its always very stimulating & interesting on how folks see & understand things in many different ways... we are both Destin to find our answers in our own ways… 
Thank you AZCorbin...


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## Print Tippler

He was never disagreeing. Just pointing out there really is no evidence of someone saying they created the tippler and it just seems to be speculation. Despite that I wouldn't put the tippler in the tumbler class of birds. Thats like putting tumblers into the non tumbling class because that's where they come from. The tippler has been well separated in looks, size and preformance. Maybe it's just a new york thing but the tippler is only one breed and not just a name for certain type of birds. Like "cap tipplets" are real tipplers. Only the English flying tippler is where tippler name originates from. The they took those birds and made them show birds calling them English show tipplers. Then a German told me they told the English show and made German show tipplers. I guess they have a different standard for the breed but still fairly identical. The reason we were wondering about Danes are because people call thm tipplers. We knew canidians are really just English tipplers so we thought maybe Danish are really just english too. A canidian, tippler flyer told me its wrong to call them canidians and they come from England and there English tipplers. There's veriety in tipplers and not all have the same beak size or head shape or body size.


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## Tiplets

Print Tippler said:


> He was never disagreeing. Just pointing out there really is no evidence of someone saying they created the tippler and it just seems to be speculation. Despite that I wouldn't put the tippler in the tumbler class of birds. Thats like putting tumblers into the non tumbling class because that's where they come from. The tippler has been well separated in looks, size and preformance. Maybe it's just a new york thing but the tippler is only one breed and not just a name for certain type of birds. Like "cap tipplets" are real tipplers. Only the English flying tippler is where tippler name originates from. The they took those birds and made them show birds calling them English show tipplers. Then a German told me they told the English show and made German show tipplers. I guess they have a different standard for the breed but still fairly identical. The reason we were wondering about Danes are because people call thm tipplers. We knew canidians are really just English tipplers so we thought maybe Danish are really just english too. A canidian, tippler flyer told me its wrong to call them canidians and they come from England and there English tipplers. There's veriety in tipplers and not all have the same beak size or head shape or body size.


OK... No Problem....


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