# Getting started with racering



## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

*Getting started with racing*

Howdy all. I guess I am a newbie to the sport of racing. I guess, because I did race for a few years in my early twenties. Now I am in my fifties, retired and getting back into it. I have forgotten most of what I learned back then.

When I raced back then, I got started with local birds, some gifts, some purchased for five or ten bucks, from local flyers. Now, with the advent of the internet and a few more dollars than I had back then, I am able to purchase birds from all over the world, and at higher prices. Here are my questions:

I have purchased some nice PEDIGREED birds from various online auctions, over the past couple of weeks. The apparent best being from a well respected flyer out west, who I have conversed with via email and when he found out that I am just getting started, included a free hen with the cock I won on his auction. What a nice gentleman. He also told me (keeping in mind that he regularly sells birds for 300 to 600 dollars on various auctions) that I did not need to spend large sums of money to get good birds. His race record shows that he is diffinitely a winner. I have also read, from links provided on this Pigeon Talk site and all over the net, several well known and respected breeders and fliers, that many times, your best bird will be one you got for free, and also that just because you paid a lot for a bird/s, that they may be duds, thus that is why they are being sold in the first place.

But, at the same time, I have read articles from other well known and respected breeders and flyers, that say if you start out with "cheap" birds or "free club birds", you will be average at best, even if you do everything correct.

So, how do you know which route to take? How do you proceed, if you are new to the sport? I also collect Golden Age Comic Books and the rule in collecting these old and sometimes valuable books, is to buy the "best you can afford" of whatever particular issue you are looking to obtain. Some knowledgeable breeders and winning flyers say the same thing about obtaining racers.

Additionally, I have read many articles touting the breeding procedure, whereupon one should breed back to famous birds in your particular strain of birds (inbreeding), but on the other hand, I have read articles stating that "crosses" are the way to go.

I also breed world class German Shepherd Dogs, and it would be unthinkable to breed a brother and sister together in dogs, and highly argued against, to even mate a father to a daughter, as inbreeding like this strengthens the good points but also strengthens the bad points, in the particular animal one is breeding. So, what the heck is a person supposed to do? Make a guess? Immulate someone who has done well in racing (but how do you really know what they do as "they" are not going to reveal everything to you unless you are their son or daughter)?

So many questions and so many different answers. I guess I can just try everything and see what works for me, but it seems to me that since pigeon racing has been around for a very long time, we would ALL have access to the information of which is appropriate and what works best. When it comes to other sports, cycling, long jump or whatever, it is pretty much evident what works best and what doesn't. But, apparently not racing pigeons.

signed: confused but determined. I am just sorry that I waited until my fifties to start again. I may not have time to get to the top of the mountain.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, welcome back to the sport of racing pigeons. I had to laugh (a few times) reading your post. 
There are SO many factors that play into this sport and not all of them are for every fancier and none of them are 100% correct or 100% wrong.
I've always said, you could ask 10 fanciers the same question and get 20 different answers.
We've got quite a few racing folks on our forum, so believe me, you'll get an ear full and probably be more confused than you already are!!  
You know the old saying about there being more than one road to Rome, or something like that. It's VERY true with racing pigeons, as well as other things in life I suppose.
You do have those folks who believe that you've GOT to start with the best you can find and if you've got the money to spend, then I say go for it.
However, the best birds you can get your hands on will not be worth a plug nickel if they aren't handled correctly. AND, mediocre birds can be some of your best if they ARE handled correctly. 
Part of each fanciers success or failure lies in the birds he/she obtains, BUT....part of it lies in the methods used, part of it is just pure and simple luck and none of it is easy. 
Although you might have better odds with a "pedigreed" bird or a "proven" bird, it's still not a given. Just because a bird wins lots of races and flys it's butt off doesn't mean all of it's brothers and sisters will do the same. Just because a bird has been proven to raise "good" birds, doesn't mean that every bird it raises is a "good" one. 
When it's all said and done, the one and only sure fired way to know if you got a "good" one or not, is to breed it and see what you get OR fly it and see how it does. 
Just for information purposes, I'll tell you how we've done. We started racing in 2002. Raised birds off of a kit of birds that we purchased for $130. That was 5 birds. The man we bought them from gave us 3 more birds to go with those 5, because like you, we were just getting started. By sheer luck, we wound up with 4 hens and 4 cocks. They all had a pedigree, which at that time didn't mean beans to me. Our first year racing, we won 2 races and took 2 second places. Pretty darn good for someone who "didn't have a clue".......since then, we've bred off of a bird that got lost and trapped into our loft and got club race winners and combine race winners off of him in 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. Figure that one out.  We've also bought birds that we paid, what I consider, a pretty decent amount of money and three years later, I sold them for 1/4 of what we paid to someone else who didn't race, but just wanted some birds in the back yard. As far as race birds go, that's about all their babies were good for. Didn't make sense to keep raising babies and loosing them. 
So, the answer to all your questions is......there are no easy answers. Just got to jump in with both feet and see where you land. 
Where you are in the country and who you are flying with plays a part in all of this also. I personally can't see spending 1000's of dollars on birds that may or may not win me a piece of paper that says "she's won the race". But, I'm not in a part of the country where racing birds is a big deal. There aren't many fanciers and there's less every year, so I'm happy with the birds I have and with what they do for me.
The most important thing to remember (in my opinon) is, this is supposed to be a hobby. It's supposed to be fun. You can't win them all and when you DON'T win, you've still got to be able to love your birds and appreciate them for what they are.
So, there, you've heard from ONE member of the peanut gallery. Stick around and you'll hear from others I'm sure. Whatever you do, enjoy your birds.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Welcome back home Conditionfreak,

Best answer I can give would be for you to get involved with one of your local racing clubs as soon as possible. Look to see who the best fliers are among them then see if one of the better fliers would mentor you and help you get back into the game.

Now as to the best way to obtain top notch birds.......... that's the golden question. My best advise would be to obtain those birds with top performances of there own, perhaps if you get a top flier, also try to obtain some of its close family as well (even if they aren’t as good a flier). Be careful of anything that says anything like bred for stock.......with the last known performance blood (birds that have actually flown and done well) being the grand or great grand parents. Some will say at least you’re obtaining the genetics’ of those grandparents………. And there may be some of the blood left in the bird that is for sale, but it will be washed down to a point (due to a lack of performance testing) to nothing much better than your local feral. At least in most cases, now there have been some very good exceptions to this but they are few and far between…….. And this will probably be why the person wants to get rid of the pigeon in the first place. 

Now as to which is better local birds or out of area birds? That’s also a loaded question and I am sure you will get lots of different answers. With the local birds you know they can fly the race course, so there young should also be able to do the same. With out of area birds you may obtain top notch birds, but you don't know how they will stack up against the local competition.

So where do you hail from? Perhaps we have someone from this forum that lives near you.

And again Welcome Home.
Lawman


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

go to the best flyers in your area and acquire ybs or late hatches if possible.the birds will be proven on the course you will fly.you also wont spend thousands guessing.most good flyers will help a new guy with good birds.in fact most will also "mentor" you to some extent atleast with the basics to get started.


the only way you ever buy a bird "bred for stock" in my opinion is if you visit the flyers loft and acquire something bred for stock out of the flyers best breeders that he was breeding for himself.if it says that on a internet auction,etc-you are probably getting a bird he didnt want himself-jmo


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2008)

in my opinion if money isnt really a problem you could probably get a very good start in racing pigeons if you were to buy a kit of birds from Warren Smith here on the list , he has been breeding his birds for a very long time now and has very proven race sheets to back them up .. so right there you have a great start with most the breeding already done for you ,all you have to do is the training and care to get them on their way  heres a his link to buying 2008 bird kits ..I dont think its possible to go wrong with a great start like that  http://smithfamilyloft.com/SaleYB.html


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts here so don't know if anyone said this already but if you haven't talked to your local club and plan to race I would do this A.S.A.P. The anual club meetings are very soon (this weekend here) and this is the only time you can join around here. Plus before I got too into it I would make sure I was going to get voted into the club. I did not do this and it really scares me that a club can decide they don't want someone in for whatever reason and just not vote them in. "It does happen". I was listening to pigeon radio and they were talking to a person from the AU about this and there is nothing that they can do if this does happen.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I would say do not start to fast. Get just a small number of top breeder birds ,you can raise from. Far as top You have to make that choice. first pedigrees are paper not a bird. Now the bird you buy should have a race record proving it could race. # pair of good birds can raise you say 18 to 20 youngbirds the first year. Also The buying from local flyers is good BUT remember the locals like any body else do not sell the best. BUt they do let you get birds that will help .You raise Dogs. You said inbreeding tightly brings both good and bad faults foward. SO it does the same with pigeons. You keep the good get rid of the bad. Testing them in training and racing tell you if the mating was good. Expect say 1 young bird from a pair to be the top bird bred that year. Maybe 1 more to be a useable bird. But figure at 5 to 10 percent total are your yearly top birds the rest are not your keepers. Do not think spending the big bucks will get the best birds UNLESS you see that bird you are buying has a record do not think of its ancesters as a way of buying. YOUNG BIRD kits are a way to start and people get lucky But then they dont. Think of asking the different club members what strain line birds and cross strain birds are doing well in your area. Set up your program stick with it and your on your way back.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am also thinking along those same lines. Aquire local birds from the best flyier. I would add to that. The birds that you are aquiring from outside sources could be great birds also. You can either establish two lines or cross the locals with outsiders. A general rule is to select using the racing basket. Get a good team, fly them and then keep the best young birds to breed. Breeding for stock birds, can be great or not. Futurity winners may not make good breeders either. I like pedigrees that show parents as winners. At least grandparents. I have had luck with brothers and sisters of winners as breeders. I would ask the best flier in your area which bird is their best and buy siblings of the bird. I would buy the same sex siblings if I had a choice. 

I find people that select good birds from an established flier tend to do better than the hodge podge guys. If you look around you can find young birds kits from breeders around. Warren has good birds, but he does expect you to fly them if you purchase a kit from him. CBS has kits, Ganus has kits etc. 

As for imports look at how Elton Dinga established his loft. You can do a search on line and find him. He did better than anyone in futurities this year. 

I like to look for a family of birds that has done very well for what your purpose is. I wanted middle distance futurity birds, so I looked to futurity winners for stock. I was lucky that two were close to me. Both have good futurity records. Both had good stock from Vic Miller birds, Ganus birds etc. 

I founded my loft from mainly Vic Miller birds crossed with a few key birds outside the bloodline. Select breeders by the basket and I am establishing a new line of birds. 

If I had full pockets I would look at www.pipa.be for birds, or simply contact Elton Dinga for birds. I want futurity winners and he breeds them.

You can found a loft on a few good birds, crossing their youngbirds in a few years. This way your family will be more homogenious. If their parents were quality chances are better they will be also. If you need a loft of 100 young birds today, you will have a bigger variety of birds and chances are not very many will be keepers. But you will have more to choose from. 

Randy


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

*Thanks*

I did not go into a lot of detail in my original posting, but I will add a few details here. I retired and moved to Hillsboro, Ohio, got ten acres of land and now have the time to race birds, but there are no clubs anywhere near me. The closest clubs are Findlay Ohio and Medway ohio, both over two hours away. I contacted the AU and asked them for suggestions and they gave me the phone number of a father and son in my city that are individually members of the AU, but have no club affiliation because of distance. I contacted them and was informed that they had a club with five members three or four years ago, but lost a member, and that the AU rules state that an official club has to have five members, so they have been without a club and have not participated in races for three years, although they still have birds. I informed them that if they wanted to get a club back together, I could be that fifth member. They said they would think about it and talk with the other former members and if they decide to do it, will contact me. Keeping in mind that they have not raced, not culled and have no club equipment anymore, making it unlikely that I would obtain starter birds from them, for my loft.

So, here are my thoughts. I may or may not be able to re-formulate this club in my area. I will have to wait and see what happens with that. I contacted the Miami Valley Sportsman's Club in Medway Ohio, and they invited me to their next meeting, but realistically, they are very far away from me and I do not think that racing with them would or could work. I have more looking into with them to determine that.

My "fall back" plan, if I do not join a far away club and can not get the former local club to renew itself, I plan to just send young birds to One Loft Races around the country. This will be expensive and make it difficult to ascertain which birds are producing good offspring, but I do not have many options here, because of a lack of a local club.

Does anyone out there think that if I just race my birds against themselves, that I can find out what is breeding what, and hone in on making better racers, to send to One loft races or prepare for the possible day when a local club may form (probably very wishful thinking)? Or, would just racing my birds against only my own birds be a waste of time, due to them clocking and sticking together?

By the way, thanks for all of the suggestions.

P.S. I tol my wife that we may have to move near a good club, and I got "The LOOK". So, that is probably not an option.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Freak

I am in the same spot as you. I am the only one that flies for about 200 miles. What I am doing is joining a club in Albuquerque New Mexico. I am having club members fly my birds for me about 25 birds. I am also sending a few to less costly one loft races. One of which is near Grand Juction Colorado $100 a bird. I raced 8 birds in this race last year. My most rescent endeavor is to send some breeders and some young birds to Michigan to fly in a club up there. The futurity lofts are also flying some of my birds that survived the races as old birds for me. 

I raised 70 young birds last year and 40 have been tested in races across the country. The other birds I will fly around the house and out to 100 miles or so. This gives me as of now a pool of about 100 birds around the country that I am getting results from. 

I am stocking the few that performed well for me along with their brothers and sisters that I "saved for stock".

I also think you can with use of good records and electronic clocking race against your own birds. Stock the best and your colony will reach higher levels. Once you find a solid family then bring in outside birds to cross in. 

Randy


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks for the thoughts Randy. May I ask how you did sending those eight birds to that race last year, at about a hundred dollars a bird?

Just trying to ascertain if I should try something like that. I have reserved two spots for a one loft race this September (which is $175 per bird), but never thought about eight birds to one race.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi Conditionfreak, Don't get rushed into racing take it slow, build a loft that you will feel comfortable with find a club that you will feel comfortable with. Start with a small number of birds from a local flyer maybe a round of late hatches.Don't fly young birds but train them out to 50 miles or so. Let them rest and molt out good this coming fall. Keep them healthy and get them ready for old birds next year. I know that many here will try to get you to fly young birds this year don't rush things. I also believe that keeping a small team is the way to go. We have to many that raise more birds then they can handle and the end result is a disaster. You can win with a small loft,small race team thats healthy and well cared for. SEMPER FI .GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

george simon said:


> Hi Conditionfreak, Don't get rushed into racing take it slow, build a loft that you will feel comfortable with find a club that you will feel comfortable with. Start with a small number of birds from a local flyer maybe a round of late hatches.Don't fly young birds but train them out to 50 miles or so. Let them rest and molt out good this coming fall. Keep them healthy and get them ready for old birds next year. I know that many here will try to get you to fly young birds this year don't rush things. I also believe that keeping a small team is the way to go. We have to many that raise more birds then they can handle and the end result is a disaster. You can win with a small loft,small race team thats healthy and well cared for. SEMPER FI .GEORGE


George and others have given some pretty sound advice.

I would also like to add an often overlooked step in getting into this sport, and that is to find a good mentor or two. Keep in mind that almost every fancier will have some advice to give. Some of it may be good, and some of it not so good. 

Your local champs are often suggested as a source for birds, but here again, much of your local champ's success may have to do with things like loft location, loft construction, the system they use, or their particular management. Fanciers often assume that they must simply have the best birds, and I suspect that is not always the case. As it was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the best birds in the world, which are not being managed properly, will most likely not win a race for you. So if you want to win your local races, all of the factors mentioned above will come into play.

The mentor is a key tool in learning the game. In many sports, a coach is key in the developement of the skills necessary to be successful. In the sport of Karate and Judo, much importance is placed on learning under a skilled teacher. Those who wish to really excell in these sport's will often move to Japan or where ever the style orginated, and study for a number of years under a Grand Master. 

Now days, because of things such as the Internet, one can read many different articles on the subject of pigeons. The problem here, is that there are many article writers, who don't have a clue about what they are talking about. So my best suggestion is to locate an experieced fancier who is willing to invest some time with you, and is willing to share his methods and the reasons why he does certain things. I know that in my personal situation, I would not have enjoyed the degree of sucess I have enjoyed, without the assistance of my mentors. 

The one issue I may disagree with my friend George, is the suggestion that you don't fly YB's this year. Being that this is only the 2nd week in January, I would think that you could have plenty of time to fly this year, depending of course on your ability to accomplish the various tasks needed. 

I don't know about you, but when I re-entered the sport, I was not going to wait around a year or more to fly pigeons. Our club has signed up nine new members and we fully expect to have everyone prepared to enjoy YB races by this fall.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

sfl is absolutely right when he says its not just the birds that will win.proper loft,handling,husbandry all together will.and yes loft location plays a part as well.however,i still say a good "starting point" is to visit the best local fanciers,especially the ones that have won in both old and ybs,and try to acquire not only some of their birds,but their knowledge.as i say this i will also say my mentor many years ago told me in pigeon racing there are "many roads to rome".there isnt any one way to do this and be successful.all the opinions here are probably correct.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

To build on K-will's suggestion if you happen to get a pair or a few racers make sure you see what type of location, loft, and everything else that you can possible model your loft to look like, smell like, and run like. Though if you are going to start out with a bigger name of pigeons (Janssens, Van der Mealens, Jan Aardens, Hofkens) all of these birds are spread through out the world and many people breed them into their stock which then they are no longer just the "father" strain. Like Janssens, so many people have them and have pretty much screwed them up as far as "Janssens" go... me being one of them. But if you manage to have a strain "based" family, if you cant go to Europe and see the actual lofts (which I cant think of many people that have, and even if you do sometimes if the flier doesn't like you... well then you out of luck) there are many videos of the actual lofts and interviews with the fliers... also many books for the bigger names. So when you know your strain do as the other guys told you, Make sure you know what helps them preform at peak performance.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If the local club has not been active in a few years, then you would probably do better buying birds from another area. Agin start right not to fast buying and buying. A few good pair say 3 to 4. Yes try to get the club active agin. NOW you said the other club is 2 hours away. Are you on line withere there flying. If so I would think you could compete Ok on the long end. Yes you can train your young birds out And get an idea on there performance. Yes you could send some to one loft races and ask other flyers to race and test your birds, Stay in touch the the locals and try to get a few newbes also. You then can get an active club in your local are. Good luck getting back in and getting things going.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi Conditionfreak, There ways to get 5 members,as I understand the AU rules you can have up to 3 members flying from the same address loft, so here is what needs to be done you and your wife fly from your loft = 2, Jason Brown and his son from his address loft =2more (4) all you need to do is get one or two of the old members of that old club and you have enough members one thing when two members fly from the same loft they must list all the birds on each team and these birds can not be inter changed with in teams. Try to get a hold of the AU rules you will see what I tell you can be done .GEORGE


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

ConditionFreak,

I am also getting back into racing after many years and there is something you might want to keep in mind. In my case, I am coming into a fairly large club, albeit a new club (20 members or so). For me, I am going to put more weight on how my first young bird team competes with themselves, as opposed to how they do in the club. I am interested in determining which of my breeders produces the best of what I am looking for within the loft, and then focusing my breeding program on those pigeons. There are many, many factors that feed into the equation of how successful I will be in the club (loft location, my inexperience as a handler and motivator, inexperience as a trainer, etc., etc). I want to be sure that I am only moving forward with the very best in my loft. That is how I am going to improve my colony.

So, with that being said, every training toss, as well as every race is going to esentially be a one loft race for me. At least I know all of my birds are being evaluated on the same playing field. Same food, same training, same medication program, etc. To me this is a much more telling evaluation of the bird's performance in relation to my management style then all the stars lining up just right one day so I win a club race here or there. There are just too many variables looking at it any other way. I need to keep it simple at this early point in my racing career.

Hope that makes some sense.

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I don't know about you, but when I re-entered the sport, I was not going to wait around a year or more to fly pigeons.


> Our club has signed up nine new members and we fully expect to have everyone prepared to enjoy YB races by this fall.


Wow Warren,

Good for you! How did you guys manage such a huge growth spurt in one year? That is really great news.

I know that this question is off the beaten path in regards to this thread, but that statement really caught me off guard!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI CODITION FREAK, The rules are in the 2007 yearbook on page 162, 4.00 MEMBERSHIP COMPETITION REQUIREMENTS-CLUB LEVEL COMPETITION, that is the rule. You also need to check out rule 4.03 also, I think that you can get a club started it will take some work but it can be done all it takes is a HARD CHARGING GUNNEY ORAH ..... .GEORGE


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Condition Freak

As for your question about why 8 birds. The perch fee for the fourth bird per team was free. So the investment was $700 for entry fees. I did win the futurity so I more than made my money back. As for why I sent that many birds was so I could test them out. The futurity flew five races from 120 to 340 miles. The course was from south of Grand Junction Colorado due North over Grand Mesa at 11K feet in elevation. Some noatables in the race were Crazy Al, Captain Chuck and many of the Grand Junction and Utah guys that have great birds. 

So for my investment I got five races on a very tough course competing against some of the finest birds around. It was a great test for my birds. I learned very much from the race. Without flying my own team, all the information that I get helps me establish the family and birds I need. This futurity was equivilant to a race season for the birds. I had five birds finish the series. I won two races outright and had two different birds leading in average speed. I learned much about my two families of birds. 

Out of the 40 or so birds that I sent out to races, I brought one back to my loft. The remaining birds from the 40 that made it through the races are staying at location flying in old birds. I was first in two futurities, won a bond race, had some very good results with the other birds I sent. I also had some losses, some birds not do as well as I had hoped etc. Much like many of our readers do in thier clubs. I will breed around these results and hope to increase the quality of my stock. 

I think it valuable to get information on your stock so you can select by results. As for my investment. It was probably smaller than if I flew my own team of 40 birds, Feed, gas, time etc. 

I have established relationships with others around the country to fly birds from my families. These will value both parties. They get in my opinion quality birds and I get quality results. Warren is going this route to get more birds in races. Without a large club to fly with, this is my only option. 

Randy


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey George. I was a Staff Sergeant, never made Gunny. Darn it. Gunny's were the MAN. Gunny's and 1st Sgts were the glue that held everything together. They ran everything. Not the officers. Don't mean to offend any officers out there.

George, I don't think I mentioned the Browns. How did you know. Just curious if you know them.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI CF, Well I went and checked the member list in the AU yearbook and J Brown was the only one in HILLSBORO,OHIO and you said that the AU gave you the name of the only one in Hillsboro. GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> ......
> Wow Warren,
> 
> Good for you! How did you guys manage such a huge growth spurt in one year? That is really great news.
> ...


 Well if I can articulate it well enough, you may be able to read about the details in the coming months in the AU newsletter, and if we are lucky, maybe even the RPD. That growth did not occur in a single year, it was more like two months. "Free" M-1 timers, SFL USA YB Kit's, Loft's, Video's, are just part of the package. All of my race winning's and a major portion of all bird sales, are being reinvested back into the sport which has given me so much. Since we are OT, will share more details as time permits.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Wow.... I know where I am moving... Jez free lofts birds videos and clocks... I know just how that feels... I was given all this by my Grandfather which really helped my fall in love with pigeons before the age of 5. Some one as generous as Warren is a true mentor in our sport and should be given a lifetime membership and the person-of-the-year award, that is what I would do If I had that kind of power.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Matt D. I checked out your web site and like it a lot. I did not check out the video as I have dial up internet service (getting satellite next week fro HughesNet) and videos are impossible for me to load right now. Very nice web site.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Dan: I have been thinking very much along the same lines that you spelled out. To "make" my loft better thru training tosses and one loft races, being that I might not be able to fly against other competition. I also like the idea of Warren, and since I am retired and have enough money, maybe I could become a pigeon racing ambassador in my area, and build starter lofts free and give a few free pigeons, to some others in my area, just to try and get an interest in them. I could propbably build three or so starter lofts a summer, and get some teenagers into it. Through word of mouth advertising.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Yeah... there are a lot of grandkids in my club... me being one of them... that there Grandpas flew pigeons or still are and got into it and my grandpa gave "starter kits" and I would go over once a week and we would have a loft cleaning party =) and I would teach them how to clean the loft and feed and water right. I hated this because besides me none of them ever stayed in the hobby for very long... =(


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