# wood pigeon in a java dove nest



## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Hi - I'm from the UK and I've had pet Java doves for a couple of years.
I am now down to one very tame female, who has a big cage in my kitchen. She laid two eggs a few weeks ago, and I was sad for her knowing they were infertile and could never hatch.
Anyhow - when she's been faithfully sitting for nearly 3 weeks, and I was deciding to throw the eggs out before she made herself ill - lo and behold, my old grey cat comes in one night, makes a weird growling noise, and very carefully deposits a small white egg on the kitchen mat. He then loses interest in it totally and wondered off!
I picked the egg up in utter amazement - no cat has ever brought an egg in before - mice, birds, frogs and even snakes, but never an egg!
The egg was completely unharmed, and warm.
You guessed what I did then. I did what any other mad person would do - I chucked out one of the 'dud' eggs from under Georgie the dove, and popped this new one in under her.
Less than a week later the new little egg hatched. My teenage son noticed the activity, and we got very excited! Eventually a chick was hatched, and we identified it as a wild wood pigeon! Georgie is thrilled to bits!
Georgie has no crop milk - I assume because the timing was all wrong in relation to her own eggs, so I am feeding this wee scrap of pigeon, and Georgie is keeping it warm and safe under her. She clucks and coos and wiggles her wings, and seems utterly taken with her baby. 
5 times a day I lift baby out on his little piece of paper towel, feed him a lovely gooey mix whos recipe I found on the internet, clean him up, put him on a fresh kitchen towel, and back into his little basket that serves for a nest. Georgie doesn't seem to mind me taking him away, but she's always pleased when I put him back.
He is now 3 days and 6 hours old. He is growing well - I still have his egg, and no way would he ever get back in it now!! but as each day goes by I get more anxious about the possibility of him dying. At first it was "I have to try, hope for the best" but now its more like "But he's our baby!"
I need to know if there's anything I haven't thought of, and we want a name for him/her, and if he survives - what do we do with him???
Has anyone else come accross such a strange incident? I wonder if God just REALLY wants me to rear a baby pigeon for some reason!
Sue


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, don't worry, you're not the only person to pull off a stunt like that by a long shot. You've probably got thousands of people around the world for company, several right here on Pigeons.com!

Did I say, "WELCOME TO PIGEONS.COM!" yet? Well, I should have. You mentioned something earlier about being mad--you've come to the right place!

Some of the folks that you really need to talk with about this baby who are from the UK are Cynthia (cyro51) and John_D. One, if not both, is from West Sussex.

Pidgey


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Sue,

Welcome...as Pidgey said, hopefully John D. or Cynthia will be along soon to advise...they are very knowlegeable on wood pigeons and they are located in the UK.

While you are waiting, I have a link to a previous thread provided by Cynthia, "Feeding a Baby Pigeon From Day One," that you may want to look at while you are waiting for responses. This link and many other useful links to care and feeding can be found in our Resources section...you can click on Pigeon Daily, then click on Resources, and the threads will come up.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9918

Good luck,

Linda


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Thank you for your comments, and the link.
Baby is still doing fine, and Georgie is being an attentive foster mum - I'm baffled as to why she hasn't even attempted to feed the baby, seeing as she's so obviously thrilled with it and otherwise acting so maternally.
We are still trying to come up with a suitable name - or maybe that's premature, and we should wait till it's survival is certain.
My son is getting really excited at the prospect of a companion pigeon, he has visions of it living in his bedroom, coming and going out the window as it chooses - is he off the wall or is this a possibility?!
Sue


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sue,

Lin has already pointed you to the feeding baby pigeons from day 1 post. That was written by Helen, who is very experienced in hand raising pigeons. Please read it carefully. 

Woodpigeons are not supposed to be the best bird to keep in captivity. They are scatty and suffer from stress..most wildlife rehabbers will euthanase rather than keep them in captivity for more than 6 weeks *BUT* I have two in my aviary at the moment and they seem happy. One came as a juvenile and has neurological damage the other was rescued as a nestling...I can't describe how utterly adorable and tame that one is.

Pigeons need the enzymes that they get from their parents crop milk in the first three days of their life...I don't know if what you have been feeding would include those enzymes...Kaytee Exact and chick crumbs apparently have them and they are probably also included in other hand rearing mixes. If you weigh it regularly you will be able to tell if it is thriving.

They grow very quickly. One of mine was 125 gms by day 10.

I am so glad that the baby and Georgie are getting such pleasure from each other...please keep us updated!

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

The more I read, the more I worry! Everything I read seems to contradict the thing I read before, and it seems I should have killed it several times over by now.
I'm feeding baby a mix I found on the internet as a crop milk replacer. It contains egg yolk, natural yogurt, cereal and corn oil, together with vitamins. I'm feeding 5 times a day, and baby is enthusiastic about slurping the food from a fake parental mouth I made (like you do)
I have nothing fine and accurate enough to weigh baby with. My kitchen scales tell me he is less than an ounce, but that is all! I can see he has grown, because I kept his egg shell and can just see how much bigger he is already, but nothing scientific. Should he be more than an ounce by now?
Tomorrow he will be 5 days old. It feels quite nerve-wracking. Who would have believed a wood pigeon could elicit such feelings?
Gorgie, in the meantime, has laid another egg!
Are java doves prone to mental instability and confusion!!!?


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

no he won't! - he'll be 4 days old - see, I am mad!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue,

You *might* be able to buy a postal scale somewhere in the UK. Do you have anything like an Office Depot there or some kind of store that sells office equipment and items? Digital scales for weighing letters and mail shouldn't run you more than $40 or so dollars...so about 90pounds or so? I'm just guessing in your currency. Get one that is digital because these are most accurate and one that weighs in grams. This will be very beneficial to you to see the baby's weight progress.

If you can get chick crumbs as well, this can be added to the formula as well, as they seem to work well for the UK members.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi SueUK,


Now, wood Pigeons eat different things, and feed their babys different things, than do the columbia Liva with whom I have a little familiarity...

So, hopefully, some of those knowledgable in wood Pigeon diets, shall have more and better mentions than mine.


Your formula sounds pretty decent to me, but if I may, I will offer some adjustments to it for you to consider.

If you can obtain a product called 'Nutrical' which is a brown goo that comes in a tube, universaly employed for occasions of the nutritional interests of infants of any species...having pre-digested enzymes and other things to it, to use as an ingredient in your formula.

Omit the egg yolk soon, and in it's stead, have some Pea-Protean powder, or, if you can find them, any or combinations of the following - Kaytee Exact, Lorribush Squab formula, LeFabers' Baby Bird powder...any of these, being protean containing meal or flowers derived from grains, will be a nice ingredient.

Hemp Seed powder, would likely be very nice also.

Chlorella, and or Barely Grass powder or Wheatgrass powder...as an ingredient...

Little pinch of powdered Kelp or Purple Dulce ( any health food store)...

Simple plain 'Corn Meal', and, or, with your regular Kitchen Counter electric Blender, put a cup or so of any kinds of nice wholesome Bird Seeds in there, and 'blend' them into a nice coarse powder or fine meal...and use some of that as an ingredient.

Vitamines and or Mineral supliment, such as "Nekton-T"...

Powdered 'pro-biotics'...

A little dab of fresh, new Bottle, Olive Oil...

Omit the Cereal ( is this like what one would call regular Breakfast Cereal? NO matter, a freshly ground grain will be much better...)

Taper off and omit the Yoghurt, and allow the 'pro-biotics' to accomplish what one might wish for the Yoghurt to do.

Wood Pigeons eat little Green shoots and Berries and so on, so whatever those may be, could be included as something one might blend into a purree, and add as an ingredient...

I do not know what those things are, so others will have to inform you about that.


Had your Adult Hen ever raised any of her own babys before?

I am surprised that for her Egg Sitting, that she is not volenteering to feed what in effect, is her hatchling...

Anyway, what fun! You are quite a good trooper and innovator to be doing this...!

Good luck!

Post some images!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Sue,

The crop milk replacement sounds like the right stuff for an eager baby pidge, and derived from the 'mac milk' diet. 

Phil is right in saying that woodies' food includes items that feral pieons do not habitually eat, but that won't matter for the purposes of raising one. They are happy with the grains and seeds other pigeons eat, but have evolved to also take advantage (in their normal, rural environment) of the berries, shoots, acorns. beechmast, etc. that nature provides. 

After the first week or so, then indeed the replacer diet can be tapered off and supplanted by Kaytee Exact for 'all baby birds' or chick crumbs, with softened fine grains/seeds being introduced after maybe another week.

We do have a rehabbing friend in the west country (Devon) as it happens, who gets woodies, collared doves and all kind of birds. If you want to email Cynthia or myself, with your location, perhaps it could be useful to put you and Ali in touch.

John (Worthing, West Sussex)


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

I think I added a picture to this - I certainly tried!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

If you want to send me your picture, I'll post it for you


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

Here is Sue's picture of the youngster. I'm not a wood pigeon specialist never having seen one in real life here in Canada (they aren't native here) but, going by the beak size and colouring, I'd say it's a woodie....John, Cynthia?

Cutie for sure though


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Brad, Thank you so much for doing that for me! You guys are all so helpful and kind - it would be worth keeping a pigeon just to have a reason to come on here!
Do you know what? I was having a cup of tea at my kitchen table, looked over to the dove cage - and Georgie was feeding baby! (Well, let's not be premature - baby had his beak stuck way into Georgie's mouth, and looked like he was eating, and George looked ok about it. The extent to which food was being exchanged I can't be sure of)
Things may be working out beautifully  
Sue


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

You're more than welcome and we all love pigeons here However, your first thoughts could very well be right on. Depending on your doves cycle in breeding, the pair *may* not have the proper diet to give to this young pigeon. It's all in the timing and your two doves might not be at the right stage to give any "milk" to this young one. It could just be water, or partially digested seeds that are more seed than digested, which in turn *COULD* be hard for this young pigeon to digest. 

Do you know how far along your doves were in their incubation cycle before you put this egg in for them to incubate and hatch?


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

I only have the one dove - she has no mate and that's why I was so certain her eggs were infertile.
She had been sitting on the eggs far too long. I didn't record the date, but I think it was at least 3 weeks of sitting by the time the pigeon egg hatched.
She has never had eggs before, so no experience of rearing young. She is only 2 years old, and lives in the house because when she was out in the aviary with her parents and other doves, everyone bullied her. She became so bedraggled and miserable I brought her indoors.
The other doves were re-homed last summer, so Georgie has been a solitary dove for quite a long time.
I'm keeping a careful watch on the cage - and I'll continue to feed the baby until I had strong evidence he doesn't need it.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Yes, ok...I don't think your one dove will be at the proper stage now to offer anything beneficial to the new pigeon youngster. It's likely just reflexive motions she's attempting here out of instinct now that she has a real baby to look after. However, I would seriously question her real ability to feed this one properly. There is also the fact that the dove is a very tiny bird and the woodie is an exceptionally large pigeon. She would never be able to provide a sufficient meal to this guy on her own and being such a small bird. You're going to have to feed him yourself....But, with the help of John and Cynthia, they will tell you exactly how much and what to feed. They are extremely well versed people on this site and know how to deal specifically with wood pigeons

They will provide you will all the details for what you need to buy and the products you will be able to find in the UK. Please listen to their advice and *hopefully* they will be able to help you out here immeasurably


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Just to update you all - Woody is now 30grams! (dunno what he was before, I only just bought some little scales, but 30 grams seems like a decent weight when he's only 4 days old)
He is so little effort to feed - I present the food in a cut off syringe (so in a plastic tube about 2cm accross) and he gobbles is up - no need to worry if he's choking or drowning, he is doing all the work, and I can see his little throat swallowing eagerly.
Think Woody might stick as a name. Not very imaginative, is it?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yes, photo confirms it is a Woodie, and it is great that Georgie is feeding it, that will comfort both of them.

Sue, we are an unimaginative lot all seem to call our wood pigeon babies Woodie! http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10531&referrerid=560 

I changed my two to Wood Wood (named after Edward Woodward) and Littlewood.

I carry my lack of originality over to the naming of collared doves who despite my best endeavours all end up referred to as Dovey!

Cynthia


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## PidgePidge (May 14, 2003)

I am really enjoying reading this thread every day! Sue I hope you'll continue to post pics of the baby. I have two that we feed regularly in our yard (my flatmates call them our 'pet pigeons', and they're so portly--I would love to see one as it goes through adolescence etc. I'm curious as no one has, I think, responded to the question of whether wood pigeons make good pets...? Good luck with the baby!!!


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Oh cool! People are really interested in my wee woody!
He is now 40grams, and I've started adding chick crumbs (all mushed up) into his feed mix. He is a greedy little feeder, and its a doddle to attend to his meals - sort of a tea break thing!
I have no idea how to post pictures on here, so I'll see if my son knows how (he's a teenager, so he should do!!)
I am so enjoying this - and teenage son is determined woody is going to be his best friend when he grows up!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

HI Sue,

Chick crumbs are a good choice, you have to allow them to soak for 15 minutes in water that has been boiled and allowed to cool but is still hot.

For a baby that young it is best to liquidise, sieve and serve as a runny mix...like cheap ketchup or a bit thinner. As it grows older you can serve a bit thicker like humous or taramasalata.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Hi Cynthia,
His eyes are open this morning!
I have a silly little marble pestle and mortar someone gave me for christmas once - its perfect for pulverising chick crumbs into a fine powder! I can then add hot water til its the right consistency. (I leave it soaking while I have a cup of tea - then feed, seems to work ok!)
There is still much debate in this household about "Will it be ok as a pet". Someone has told me it will 'imprint' to us, and we can never let it go (but hang on, it thinks Georgie is mum?!) and someone else assuring us our cat will eat it if its ever out of a cage. My son wants it to live in his attic bedroom, and fly in and out of the window as it likes (!!) and I guess I'll just be happy if it grows into an adult bird!
Do wood pigeons 'home' as such? 
By the way, Cynthia - I live near Taunton, in Somerset. Very rural, lots of wood pigeons!
Sue


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

I'm glad to hear that things are progressing nicely with the woodie I guess you bought a digital scale then to weigh him..very good. This will be very beneficial to track his progress and make sure he continues to thrive. 

I really can't advise you on how the bird will turn out, behaviour wise. I have no experience with wood pigeons to know about their demeanour or homing abilities. I would assume that since this pigeon came to you in the egg and has been fed by people, that he/she will be very tame when older. Cynthia or John will be able to tell you more of what to expect down the road.

If you need help with posting pictures again, just let me know or email them to me.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Well, now a new problem - or at least a bit of a hitch.
Georgie the java dove has decided playing mummy is a drag, and she isn't going to do it any more!! One minute all lovey dovey and doing her maternal bit, then turns her back on baby and refuses to go near him.
So - dig infra-red lamp out of cupboard, and set up baby in separate accomodation with the lamp on him.
Now I need to know how warm? for how long? I don't have fancy thermometers and stuff, so I have to put my hand in with baby and think "how does this compare with putting my hand under Georgie?" He has his new nest in a smallish fish tank, with a wire mesh top (such as used for hamsters) so no drafts, and very visible. The lamp is shining on him through the glass wall of the tank.
Any thoughts anyone?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Sorry to hear Georgie isn't co-operating for you and the baby. Do you have a heating pad to use instead of the lamp? If you do you can place this at the bottom of the fish tank with a towel on top set on low. You may want to use a small margarine tub lined with some soft paper towels as well to contain the baby and his feet. If you don't have a heating pad, the lamp will do alright I hope. Just make sure that it doesn't get too hot and dry because this could dehydrate the baby. It's good that you don't have the light shining directly on him though. The temperature should be around 85 C but you don't have a thermometer. If it's generally warm though, he should do ok. At around 2 weeks old, they don't really need to be artifically warmed any longer.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Oh my God! I nearly cooked him!!!
Looked in and he was sitting there panting frantically, had to take him out and fan him and spray him and give him a drink of water!
I now know pigeons can pant!
Found a winemaker's heat pad in the shed - am testing it now to see if it still works.
This is doing nothing for my stress levels!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Sue,

You have a lot of experienced members here giving you good advice.

If you have a problem with the heating pad, maybe you could use the lamp with the bird in a small cage or cardboard box. My first thought when you mentioned the glass tank was that since the glass is so solid, it could get pretty hot in there with the direct heat from the lamp. If you need to use the lamp, I think a cage or even a cardboard box would not hold the heat as much as the glass tank and allow for more ventilation....just a thought.

It sounds like you are doing great so far......good luck,

Linda


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

We are serene and calm again. 
Georgie is stretching her wings and legs in turn, preening, and getting the use of her limbs back, and baby woodie is in his new home and as snug as a bug in a rug. 
The heat pad seems to be perfect, its cosy in there, without being hot and stuffy. Phew!!
I'll try and get some photos again, now he has his eyes open and a new home.
Everyone on here is SO helpful - its lovely


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

I'm glad to hear you didn't cook the little one Yes, heating pads work nicely for warming the babies but not too much. It's a stressful time when they are at this age for sure but you are doing a wonderful job. Please feel free to post any questions or concerns as they arise.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Time for an update I think.
The traumas of yesterday caused a bit of a setback, and no weight gain at all, in fact he may even have lost a couple of grams, but back up to 42 grams today, and seems to be happy in his new bed.
I have a winemakers heat pad under the tank, and the thermometer reads just under 80 degrees. Its warm, but not at all hot. I have put shredded tissues on top of him in his little basket nest (Thought they'd seem like the doves feathers!) and he is now feeding entirely on the chick crumbs, pulverised into a powder and warm water added. Should I be adding anything else?
The syringe with the end cut off works a treat (I use cling film over the cut off end, with a cut in it. It works really well because I can still see his beak in there, and see him eating)
Absorbing, isn't it? We get quite as excited as woody does at feed times, seeing how enthusiastic he is. In fact he flaps his wings and jumps about so much we have to restrain him gently or he'd launch himself off the table.
He has little stubby feathers growing along his wings and rump, too!
Brad - can I send you a photo to load for me? I still haven't sussed the picture thing!
Still haven't the faintest idea what we'll do when he is adult - my teenager so wants to keep him, in his bedroom, free to fly about at will, but I'm not sure how that will work. We have cats! 
Do woodpigeons return home if they fly away?
What is egg food? someone told me to get some, but I'm not sure what is supposed to eat it, or at what age.
So much to learn, so endlessly interesting!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sue,

I know someone who raised two woodie squabs on CeDe egg food, but I would use it as a supplement.

http://www.everythingforpets.com/cede_canary_egg_food.pet/use.id.5.item_id.2639.dept.433/ 

Karen released a wood pigeon from her aviary and it came home every night to roost. Matty (Diogenese) has also had experience of releasing hand reared wood pigeons. You might like to do a search for Diogenese in the members list and e-mail him directly as I don't think he visits the forum regularly.

Please remember to soak the chick crumbs for 15 minutes before serving. I have also sent you some Kaytee Exact just in case you need it. It is quicker to prepare than Kaytee and has added vitamins etc.


Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It would be interesting to see an updated photo. It has suddenly crossed my mind that it could be a stock dove, because it is still so small....I have never seen a baby stock dove but I saw a photo of what we thought might be one and it looked very much like a wood pigeon baby to me.


Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Is it small? I have no idea! (but you mentioned one of yours was 150 grams at 10 days, and this one is nowhere near that size) I'm worried now that its stunted and its my fault for feeding it wrong.
It is developing nicely though, little feathers starting to sprout, and very active and excitable at food times.
I guess I'll find out what it is if it grows up ok. Just have to be patient.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Bumping up for Molly.

SUE, you can email your updated pictures anytime, I will post them for you. I hope things are continuing to go well for you and the baby

[email protected]


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hello everyone, 

Here is Sue's updated picture of her 11 day old wood pigeon. Looks like a cutie that is doing well


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

This pigeon has me confused.
All the feathers arriving are grey, except for a few white ones each side of the tail - now I can't find a picture of an adult dove or pigeon that has white bits each side of the tail! It has no white or black bars on the wings, just grey.
It is 12 days old, and 75 - 80 grams. Very active and feeding well. 
The feet are still a bit weird - the middle toes are nice and straight now, and forward pointing, and he can sit, walk and perch ok - but the outside toes on each foot are definitely sqiffy, kind of twisted slightly outwards and sideways. I'll keep an eye on them, and splint again if they don't get any better.
We are stupidly fond of it. In fact he has been really good for me. I was feeling quite depressed before it hatched, (various stresses, not least my health - I have emphysema - and its coming up to the anniversary of my eldest son's death 6 years ago) and this little scrap of life has given me and my younger son (nearly 18) a real sense of enthusiasm for each new day - seeing how he's developing, growing and changing, and the very fact that he's survived so far! Being involved in nurturing such a little creature is amazing. Being aware of the miracle that such an incredible little life came out of such a tiny egg!
Could he be a feral? Oh how I wish my cat could talk, and tell me where he found the egg!!!
I'm keeping a daily log of the baby's progress, and a photo diary. When he achieves adulthood I'll put it all together into a file and see if my son can get it up on this site.
This site is incredible - and everyone on it so helpful. So glad I found it!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

I'm very sorry to learn of your older son passing and that you are struggling with emphysema yourself. It's nice that this little pigeon has brought a new sense of purpose and enjoyment into your life, all animals can stir new feelings in people of having a goal and a sense of doing something good

As for the white coming in around the tail, this could be the outer edges of the outer tail feathers of a rock dove perhaps. The grey coming in on the body would also indicate that possibly. Although we don't have stock doves here in Canada, they are fairly similar to a rock dove in size and colouring (I think). So perhaps it's either or....it won't be long now until you have a better idea. Now that the feathers are coming in, they grow pretty quickly and the colours and patterns will start to take form. 

Seems like he's doing very well and gaining weight nicely. Keep us posted and you're doing a wonderful job of "mother pigeon"


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Sue
I have been reading your story and I think your woodie could be a collard dove. I hand reared one about 6 months ago and the 1st pic that was posted was exactly like the baby I reared. Collard dove chicks are a lot smaller than woodies and they don't gain so much weight about 5-10g a day some days no added weight at all. I feed my chick Kaytee Exact and it did very well on this, also someone has proberly already mentioned this but make sure the chick is not nesting on a slippery surface, as this can cause splay leg. Please Please be careful in your little un ever needs a vet as doves are looked upon by a lot of so called avain vets as vermin and the vet would rather put a sick dove to sleep than try and help it, this is what happend to me. If I now have a problem with my ringneck dove I find it more usefull to post on www.dovepage.com or to re read posts here as a lot of treatments that are used for pidges can be used for doves and a lot of the members on both these forums are very experienced and most of all are lovers of birds that are otherwise classed as vermin.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks Brad and Sweetpea.
If my baby is a collared dove it would be good, because foster mum is a java dove - bred from the collared dove - so at least they'd be able to live together!
When baby first hatched I phoned the RSPCA, to find out how to feed it, but they were not even remotely interested in it, and I imagine my local vet would be the same. I already had one friend ask "WHY?" in an incredulous voice when I said I was rearing a pigeon - said her dad would have used it for target practice. Makes me sick.
He has a little wicker basket for a nest, so his feet don't slide about, and although his feet are still a bit crooked, he can walk fast!
Anyway, baby is doing great, and whatever he turns into, we think he's brilliant!
Later today I'll email you the latest photo if I may Brad!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sue,

I don't think he is a collared dove because of his beak, the baby collared dove has a slimmer sandy coloured beak the woodpigeon a black "banan beak". But if you go to this link you will find an album of photos of wood pigeons growing up and one of collared doves growing up and can make your own comparisons:

http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51 

We have no photos or experience of the development of stock doves or turtle doves.


Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Hi Cynthia - well, I've had a look at both collared dove pics and woodpigeon pics, and I'm still confused!!
There is no white on the wing, there is white on the tail, and he's only 80 grams - so I'm fairly confident he isn't a woodpigeon (as confident as an amateur can be!) but not sure it is a collared dove. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
Brad will hopefully be posting a recent photo soon, I sent it to him yesterday.
Whatever it is, its a darling, happy little thing, and when I take him out at feed times he flaps his wings so much I keep thinking he's going to fly accross the kitchen. 
Question - how long do baby birds need to be on heat? he's still on his heat pad, at about 80 degrees - should I be weaning him off it slowly?
Sue


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sue,


Simply have the Heating Pad with a nice, soft Terrycloth Towell on it, in such a way, that the Baby can be on it, or off of it, as they shall elect for themselves. You can also set up the Heating Pad so that some of it folds up to a sort of lip, or so that the pad as a whole is in fact bent in a corner, so they have that nook to cuddle in if they feel chilled.

And of course make sure they are safe from drafts or Air Conditioning or chilled Air blowing over them...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Just got your message and email with pic. Sorry it took me a little longer to get it. 

Seems that this could very well be a dove, probably a collared dove as Sweetpea did mention. The beak was confusing when it was smaller but now that's the baby is older, it really does appear to be a dove. Do you have any other types of doves in the UK - other than collared doves? Also, considering it's age, the weight is consistant with what a dove would likely weigh at this stage of it's life.

Here's the latest picture everyone @ 13 days old.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

As Sue says, time will have to tell. I have to admit it is looking less like a wood pigeon to me also.



> Do you have any other types of doves in the UK - other than collared doves?


As I mentioned before, it could be a stock dove, but that doesn't have white on the tail...nor does the collared dove although some of the tail feathers can be very pale . That leaves the turtle dove, which apparently *does* have white on the tail and is even smaller than the collared dove. I have never even seen an adult turtle dove! 

http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/t/turtledove/index.asp 

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Sue,

If you scroll down this thread http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10531&referrerid=560 

You will find photos of Jo's woodpigeon (now named Little Wood) at the same age.

Just to double check: is the white on your rescue's tail a thin white band ? And did you stretch out the wing to see if there is a white band (it wouldn't be visible on the folded wing).?

The turtle dove is a protected species.

The collared dove fledges between 15 to 19 days, the turtle dove at 20 days, the stock dove 27 to 28 days and the wood pigeon at 33 to 34 days.

Cynthia




Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

hi,
The white on the tail is just a little tuft of white each side - there isn't much of a tail yet of course, but it definitely has white each side of it!!
I've opened up the wing, and he spreads and flaps them a lot - and not a trace of white. 
When is a bird fledged? does that mean fully feathered? or flying? this baby is neither. He has lots of feathers, but also big bare patches on tummy and under wings and on his neck. He flaps his wings a lot, but I think he'd crash pretty fast if he launched himself off the edge of the table.
Oh well - all will be revealed in time I guess.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I interpret fledged as being feathered and ready to leave the nest.

This bird fascinates me, I am really looking forward to the next update. Couldn't you have a quiet word with your cat and get it to reveal where the egg came from?

It is difficult to judge the size from a photo...how big is he when compared to your fist?

Cynthia

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

I wrote a reply, and half way through it sort of vanished!
Anyhow - the baby is about the size of a lemon - half the size of my fist? and today it weighs 3 ounces (85 grams)
The white feathers on the tail now seem to be more under the tail, at the sides - I'll try to get a picture of his bottom! The wing tips seem to be a darker grey than the rest of him, but not black, just dark grey.
He is two weeks old today!
Thank you Brad for posting the latest photo, I do wish I could work out how to do it myself, but thanks for being so helpful.
I've moved the heat pad so its only under half of his house, giving him a choice about where he wants to sit. 
Cynthia - if it is a turtle dove, and a protected species, does that mean I can't keep him? I'm happy to release him if I'm sure he'll survive out there - but what if he can't?
Sue


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I had no idea it was so very tiny!!!! A woodpigeon of the same age would be about the size of both hands clasped together. What a little jewel.

I was thinking about the protected species bit and I think the fact that it hatched in captivity is significant. I will do some research on that. But first we have to establish exactly what it is.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Cynthia,
I am still struggling with getting images onto this site - so I'll email todays pictures to you if I may. (If you then want to put them on the site thats ok.)
I got my son to take the photos, so the bird can be seen in relation to my hand!
I really do like this wee thing!! He's so cheerful!

Sue


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks, Sue, I appreciate that.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is beginning to seem very likely that this is a turtle dove.

I found this description which refers to the white corners of the tail:

_ Has proportions of collared dove but appreciably smaller. Body plumage mostly blue-grey and pinkish with chestnut-brown on mantle; dark feather centres give a scaly appearance to back. Long, mainly black tail appears wedge-shaped in flight due to white corners. At close range, black and white barring on neck can be seen. Presence often indicated by purring song. Favours arable land with hedges. _ 

And this on their eating habits:



> Adults feed on the ground, mainly on cereal and wildflower seeds and the occasional insect. During the first five days of life the young are fed on 'crop-milk' which the parents regurgitate. They then eat small seeds and insects.


Chick crumbs would appear to meet the dietary requirements.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

How exciting!
Who would have thought, when my cat brought that little white egg in, that it would turn into such a fascinating enterprise.
I'm glad I'm off work now, for the summer (I work in school, so I'm home now till september) I can give it plenty of time and attention.
I am pleased, too, that my son, and all his long lanky freaky friends, are as interested and involved in this bird as I am!

Sue


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the photos Sue. I think the reason that you can't post them here is their size, they would need compressing.

The photos have managed to sway me again, perhaps Sweetpea is right and it is a collared dove after all. Time will tell but this thread has a photo of my own baby Poppet when he was roughly the same age and they look very similar to me:http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8108&referrerid=560 

And there was me thinking that at least I knew my wood pigeons and collared doves! 

Cynthia


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Sue and Cynthia, I am not sure about this as doves including tame ringnecks have sooo many different names but the only type of wild dove here in the UK is what I would call the collard dove. Sue I did post a pic of the little guy I was handrearing on here when he was about 3 weeks old not ready to fly just yet but full of grey baby feathers, also you can see the little guys splay leg. The fact that you have hand reared this little one (well done) whether he turns out to be a dove or woodie you will have a very trusting and loving friend.


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

I have attached a pic of Paulie the chick I raised and this is him at about 10 days old. I remember that he was a bit of a puzzle when I first asked for help on hand rearing as to what he was  as he was very dark.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Sweetpea, I have never seen a collared dove that dark, but Paulie was undeniably a collared dove, so I think that the prize for identification goes to you!

We do get turtle doves in the UK , but they are very rare and they are only here for the summer months.

Sue, can I add the photo of your baby to the collared dove development album to show what a hatchling looks like? And Sweetpea, can I add Paulie as the next stage of development? This identification subject is bound to come up again and those two photos are excellent reference material. I would change the name of the album and give you full credit for your photos.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Cynthia - I'd be delighted for you to use any of my photos.
I continue to photograph this baby regularly, as well as keeping a log of his weight and development day by day. One day it may be useful to someone!
So - baby almost certainly a collared dove............Thank you for your photos Sweetpea, and Paulie looks just like mine, doesn't he/she? It makes sense, as there are a lot of collared doves in this area.
What do I do about returning it to the wild? Will this be possible or should I keep him in an aviary with being hand reared, no fear of cats, wonky feet? (I have an aviary, currently empty, 6' tall, and 6' x 3' floor area) He and Georgie could share it, so neither was lonely.
Can a collared dove breed with my white java dove? I'm sure they can. (if its a male, of course)
There's so much I don't know!

Sue


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Oh dear - reading other people's posts, my aviary is very small isn't it? more of an outdoor cage really. My ex husband originally built it for some finches he kept!
It has an old rabbit hutch fixed on the back wall, which the java doves used to use for a sleep area and for nesting - they also liked roosting on the roof of it and I used to put their food up there. At one time there were 4 doves in it.
I can't enlarge the aviary, so if I need to keep the baby, and if I put the new bird and Georgie in there together, do you think it will be ok?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sue,

I think that you could try it for size. My doviary is just about that size and I use it as a temporary home for collared doves. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9238&referrerid=560 

Poppet is often their mentor so has to spend time in there. He gets exercise by flying in little circles or from perch to perch and is okay. I moved Poppet into the aviary, which is much longer and theoretically would give him a lot more space to fly, but he sticks to his short flight pattern and to a specific part of the aviary.. However, he was also quite happy indoors with the bedroom to himself. Doveys don't make much mess with their poops.

The wild doves that I put in the doviary don't adapt that well and tend to bash themselves against the wire if I go in there. 


If he adapts to captivity and to Georgie then I would keep him. Poppet's companion in the aviary is Littlewood, there is a lot of rivalry when it comes to attention from their pet humans but mostly they choose to sit together.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

I found this on a website - mentions the white tail feathers! Also found a photo of a collared dove with white outer tail feathers.

"Collared Dove - Steptopelia decaocto - Length 32cm

Despite being first recorded in Britain in 1950s, now common and widespread in most parts of Britain and Ireland although seldom far from habitation. A common garden bird in many areas, feeding on lawns and coming to food; often seen in pairs. Has sandy-brown plumage with pinkish flush to head and underparts. Shows dark half-collar on nape. Black wingtips and white outer tail feathers most noticeable in flight. In display, glides on bowed wings. Somewhat irritating song comprises much repeated oo-oo-oo phrase. Feeds on seeds and shoots."

Irritating song?!!!!


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

SueUK,
Their song can't be any more irritatiog than that "air pollution" some humans call music, can it? Some of the music (I can't believe I called it music  ), is screaming, ranting, you either can't understand what's being said, or the message is so nasty and negative, you don't want to hear or understand it. I'll listen to my birds over that trash any day.
Daryl
Right now, I have two hungry little squeakers bellowing for their breakfast.


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hello Cynthia, I would be chuffed for you to use my pic of Paulie.


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Oh sorry forgot to mention I still have the original weight records. I used to weigh him 1st thing in the morning before I fed him just to make sure he was growing ok. I was thinking maybe it would be an idea to include these in the dove album so people who have a chick and are not sure what it is dove or woodie can refer to weight difference to help identify their chick.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Sweetpea, the weight records will be a great help, niot jsust for identification but to check progress.

Sue, I also have been looking at doves from underneath and they do have lovely white/pale cream tail feathers from that angle. But I have never heard an irritating song from them.

A collared dove is not as exciting a rescue as a turtle dove would have been (to me) , but it will be a lot safer as turtle doves migrate and are shot. And they are absolutely adorable birds. Their rapid spread shows that they are also resourceful and adaptable even though they are not the best nest builders.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Sweetpea - it would be interesting to swap weight charts - I too have kept a daily weight record, to see how baby was progressing. I think I mentioned before, I will be putting together a 'chick growth file', with written and photo records, if anyone wants it after baby has reached adulthood.
I'm quite glad he isn't a turtle dove really. I'd have been really excited, until he flew away for the winter! And a collared dove should make a lovely companion for Georgie, who has been alone far too long.
I'm shocked that anyone thinks their song is irritating! - collared dove song or a car radio with boom-box? I know what I'd sooner listen to when I'm walking in the countryside!!
I can't get over how helpful and friendly everyone has been on this site. I'm so glad I found it.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

This is silly - Baby dove is getting too restricted in his glass home, no room to exercise his wings properly, and nowhere to put perches, so now he is off heat, and having read so much on here about collared doves/java doves being such helpful surrogate parents, I thought I'd pop baby in with Georgie to see if they get on.
Well, Georgie is being a darling, preening and cleaning baby, gently getting the bits of dried food out of his feathers and even attempting to feed him - but baby is horrified! His feathers are all fluffed up, his head withdrawn into his shoulders, and he keeps taking an aggressive/defensive swipe at Georgie with his beak, which she ignores completely. 
Do you think he's forgotten he's a bird? Is it going to be safe to leave them together do you think? I don't know what to do for the best now.

Sue


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Yes, it's possible that the baby has forgotten already he's a bird since you've been the primary care giver now. He sees you as "mom" and never really got a chance to bond with Georgie for those brief moments with her. I wouldn't leave them together unattended just in case, but brief periods together might be beneficial.

As for his glass menagerie, perhaps you can graduate him into something a little more spacious. A larger box would be nice with the top removed. Leave 3 sides of the box in tact and then cut one of the sides basically right off but leave a little at the bottom of that side as a little barrier...say perhaps 6 - 8 inches high. Just so that he won't fall out of the box. 

As for heat, he really doesn't need the heating pad any longer, just provide soft bedding at the bottom of whatever you use and keep the area warm-ish


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

As Brad has suggested give them some time to adapt to each other under supervision. It sounds as if Georgie is taken with the baby and the baby can't harm Georgie. The stabbing at strangers is instinctive, the new squabbies that I put in with my other pigeons always start that way, then adapt/adjust.

I am so glad that Georgie likes the baby!

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks Brad and Cynthia for your encouragement and help. 
I'll leave them together while I'm home and can keep an eye on them - but at nights I'll put baby back in the glass house, at least for the time being.
I'm hoping Georgie will show baby how to eat seeds eventually.
I just fed baby. I went to give his head a kiss (much to the disgust of some of my friends, I kiss creatures a lot!) and he thrust a hungry beak into my mouth, seeking food!! Tickled like crazy!!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

Here's the latest picture of Sue's dove baby, what a CUTIE!!!! She's coming along beautifully and looks so healthy, well done Sue I'd say it's definite now, this is a collard dove for sure. Great picture too, this one is so clear and crisp, much easier to see the features and colours.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

I just wanted to suggest to you now that the baby is 16 days old, you can begin to introduce her to seeds. The quicker they are introduced to seeds the better. Put them in dishes and bowls and scatter them in front of her. Begin to show her by pecking with your fingers and also, you can allow her to watch Georgie eating...this would be ideal if she could learn from Georgie. But if not, just make them available to her. Try not to leave it too long because the quicker they learn to try seeds and practise with their mouths, the easier it will be to wean her


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks for that Brad - 
I have actually been dropping seeds around her for a couple of days now, and it was one of my reasons for putting her in with Georgie. So far she has shown no interest whatever in the seeds, but I started offering them to her when I noticed her kind of 'sweeping' the print on a newspaper with her beak, as though she was investigating what the black marks were!
Is it ok to grind up some seeds into her food mix? I know it wont help her to eat them for herself, but will it help her digestion or general health?
I really couldn't bear it if she failed to thrive now!
Oh, and it is a nice photo, isn't it - I think I finally got the hang of using my camera!

Sue


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Sue,

Great photo and a GREAT job you are doing with this little one!!!

Best wishes,
Linda


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Yep, grinding up seeds and mixing is just fine and very beneficial to her. It will give her the taste of them at least . Just keep at her and encouraging her with seeds, seeds and more seeds everywhere She is a little bit young yet still, but the exposure and playing with them should help a lot. Too often I read about young pigeons and doves that have been hand fed for too long and they can't seem to adjust quick enough to eating on their own, and they will get too accustomed to their liquid diet and being hand fed. Like a human parent practising tough love, same with birds, it's necessary for them to learn and become self sufficient. 

Your new picture is absolutely wonderful and I do believe you've got the knack of photo taking now


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Sue, here is Paulies weight records. I was guessing that he was 5 days old when the kids found him.

Day 5 = 32g
Day 6 = 42g
Day 7 = 50g
Day 8 = 60g
Day 9 = 62g
Day 10 = 69g
Day 11 = 75g
Day 12 = 80g
Day 13 = 84g
Day 14 = 86g
Day 15 = 88g
Day 16 = 91g
Day 17 = 90g
Day 18 = 90g
Day 20 = 98g
Day 22 = 108g
Day 24 = 118g
Day 26 = 121g

Sadly after this date Paulie was put to sleep by a well meaning vet because one leg being badly splayed the other was weak and always curled up underneath him. Although I did try to straighten his spaly leg using methods mentioned here and on other forums it just would not straighten. The vet diagnosed (sorry about my spelling) a genetic bone disease and Paulie would never have been able to perch and could have possibly ended up with infected sores on his leg where he used to drag it on the ground. In the short time that I had Paulie his trust, spirit and affection touched me in a way that very few humans have. 

A few months after Paulie my hubby came home with 2 ringneck doves. Ma and Pa (hubby named them) weren't very good parents to begin with so I had to put my hand rearing skills into action once more  and now have a beautiful white female dove who thinks I am her nest mate or if I am not around she flirts with hubbys feet.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Thank you for that sweetpea - when my baby (poor wee thing still hasn't a name!) reaches a month old, I'll post her weight chart, or send to you separately.
I've read Paulie's story, and it is so sad. They are amazing little things, these doves and pigeons, aren't they? They steal your heart so thoroughly.
Does your new white dove live indoors? My Geogie lives inside, in a big cage, and I let her fly free whenever I can keep her safe from our cats.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sweetpea,

I am so pleased that you have such an affectionate dove, you deserve it. Hand rearing provides a wonderful bond.

Have you found additional information on the effect and possible treatment of the bone disease? (I am guessing that this was metabolic bone disease?).

The reason that I am asking is that when you had Paulie we had limited experience of collared doves but I have since found that leg problems are apparently a common problem in fledgelings. There is a family of CDs near my office that invariably produces squabs that are unable to walk or perch when they leave the nest (fortunately they respond to treatment with liquid calcium) and Karen was handed two that had their legs twisted in the sockets, sadly one died.

Collared doves are not as stoic as pigeons and I wonder how much treatment and/or pain they can tolerate and whether the vet that you consulted was as misguided as we originally thought. Just a thought.

Cynthia


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Baby has been named 'Fluke' (because its sheer fluke we ever got her, and fluke she's alive. A friend of my son came up with the name!)

She flew today!! all of 3 feet, from my hand to the kitchen table, even managed a very competent landing, and she looks lovely.
Georgie (who must be the most mixed up dove on the planet) has decided she doesn't want Fluke in her cage after all, and was pushing her around last night (protective about her eggs? she laid new eggs and has been sitting for 2 days) so Fluke now has her own cage in the study, where I can close the door to cats and let her practice her flying.

This has been such a rewarding experience!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Fluke sounds a darling and if she is anything like my Poppet you will have so much more pleasure to come!

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sueUK said:


> Thanks for that Brad -
> I have actually been dropping seeds around her for a couple of days now, and it was one of my reasons for putting her in with Georgie. So far she has shown no interest whatever in the seeds, but I started offering them to her when I noticed her kind of 'sweeping' the print on a newspaper with her beak, as though she was investigating what the black marks were!
> Is it ok to grind up some seeds into her food mix? I know it wont help her to eat them for herself, but will it help her digestion or general health?
> I really couldn't bear it if she failed to thrive now!
> ...


Hi Sue,


What a wonderful story!

Yes, you can definitely add fresh, ground wholesome Seeds to her forumla...and add some nice Grit also.

You can also...moisten your fingers in warm water, and massage her little Beak gently, and she will almost certainly nuzzle, squeak and flap to be fed. 

You may then feed her her formula, to which you have added fresh ground seeds, as well as some whole small Seeds and Grit, useing the hollow back of a regular baby nipple for her to eat from.

Make sure the food is tepid and not from a microwave, instead, improvise a double boiler - a cup in a pan of medium hot Water.

After a few occasions of this, you may guider her eager Beak into a small 1 inch or so deep container of Whole Small Seeds and Grit, and keeping your fingers on the sides of her beak near their hinge, she will make eating motions or little 'gobbles' with her Beak in these small whole Seeds, and fill her self up nicely.

It is then a very small step needing no effort on anyone's part, for her to be Pecking Seeds nicely on her own. She will then do so readily with a natural progression.

Allow her to do so on a folded small towell, where it is easier for her to graze and to get a grip on them, than it would be on a hard surface.


Have fun!  


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Sounds like a perfect name for the little dove


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi Cynthia
Paulie did not seem in pain with his legs, he was still eating well, flying around the kitchen and very affectionate. I have since read of people who have kept and managed to give disabled pidges a good quality of life and it does make me wonder if Paulie could have had the same type of life. The only treatment the vet was willing to do after about 40 mins of me defending Paulie's right to life was to break his splay leg and insert pins into it, this treatment still did not guarantee his leg would be normal and the other leg he was starting to not use at all just keeping it curled underneath him. Believe me I debated with the vet all the reasons why Paulie had has much right to life as a £1,000 pet parrot. The vet initially would not even treat him and told me that he was not going to let me walk out of his surgery with Paulie and he was contacting the RSPCA as I was being cruel to keep a bird this disabled alive as it could never survive in the wild. After much debating and stressing over and over again that Paulie would be kept as a pet dove indoors, he then considered treatment until he examined the other leg. 

I don't believe that Paulie was in pain, but with the knowledge that his legs would develop sores which in turn would become infected and also the fact that because he couldn't land he would injure himself even more by crash landing into things I finally gave in to the vets opinion of having Paulie put to sleep. Sadly since then I have later learnt that a few people have given disabled pidges a good quality of life

Yes Sue my ringneck lives inside and she is called Duck. Will see about posting a pic of her


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That vet put you through a terrible experience and had no right to do that.  


Cynthia


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So sorry for your loss. Seems like you did what you could to change the vet's mind. Thank you. Perhaps the information you provided will one day trip the decision the other way. You never know what ripples you start.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

How's the little collared dove doing? You haven't given an update in a few days nor have any recent pictures hit my email from you

Hope everything is going well and email me a pic when you can and I'll post it for you.


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## sueUK (Jul 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, how nice that you are interested!
Baby is doing wonderfully. Flying well (had its first flight at last Sunday!) and eating seeds and egg food, as well as 'topping up' on the hand-feeding.
The first black feathers of the collar are coming in at the sides of her neck, and she is very chirpy and cheerful.
She flies around in my study, landing on my head or shoulders, poking her beak into my ears (very tickly!) and wiggling her wings a lot.
Her feet are still a bit weird and twisted, but they don't in any way hinder her perching or walking.
Her most stiking feature is her confidence! Nothing seems to intimidate or phase her, she just takes everything in her stride - even having me smother her in a tissue to wipe all the spilled food off her beak and face!
I have a picture of her taken Tusday, at exactly 3 weeks, which I'll email to you.
My white dove, Georgie, is sitting on two more eggs, which I have replaced with fake ones (I couldn't buy plastic ones locally, so I made imitation eggs from polymer clay!) I don't know how long she'll sit on them - its sad that she is so devoted to eggs that will never hatch.
Consequently baby is living separately, in her own large cage, but I hope they will live together when Georgie has given up trying to hatch eggs. If they spend the winter together happily, I will move them both to my small outdoor aviary in the spring.
Its been a real privilege to rear this wee thing, and watch her grow and thrive. Its also been a great experience to find this site and all the truly helpful caring people on it. Thank you everyone for all your support!
Sue


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue and Everyone, 

Here are the latest pictures of the baby collared dove at 3 weeks old. Sue, she's just beautiful and you've done an amazing job raising her from the egg. 

Isn't it wonderful to have such a tame and trusting bird...they are such a joy when they have no fear and just be themselves around us


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Happy Birthday Sue!!!!!!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Sue, 

Have a WONDERFUL DAY TODAY, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU ! 

Please enjoy a great day with your family and little Fluke, hope she is still doing well. 

Send me some new pictures to post when you can


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!


Sue, hope Fluke is doing well and that you have a wonderful birthday....


Linda


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