# A terrible problem



## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I have a baby pigeon 6 weeks old and eating and drinking on its own and very healthy. The baby's leg is splayed out to the side--really bad. I have tried cobbles on lower and upper foot as well as a splint that was just too heavy for it and even though I had the leg taped with self taping it was too rough for the leg and made it bleed because of the tender leg skin. I now will resort to a cotton under type of padding with self taping that would be more tender on that foot. Right now I am massaging it and aligning it proper about every three hours and exercising it as well. It's hips are fine and the bird just came home from the Avian Vet who cobbled it for a week as well as me trying the week before. But to no avail and it just goes out sideways once again. It was a single egg that I missed in my loft because of cataracts and I call it the Oop's Baby. If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate. c.hert


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## gingerpoo (Jul 31, 2008)

What type of tape are you using? I normally use blue painters tape, as well as making them little cardboard shoes out of cereal box- boot lets their nails hang over he side and you tape their toes flat. Sometimes splayed leg is made worse by poor traction. Limit movement but putting him in a small area so he isn't rubbing and fighting the tape so much


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Check out this link with pics and get some ideas


https://www.google.ca/search?q=spla...fZsASG9YHYAQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=649


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I just typed a long piece but lost it so I will begin again. I like the little shoe idea but need to get this foot strong enough to stand on it for it is weak and does not stretch out or grasp anything. It needs some type of traction. I have a whole variety of tapes and different supplies . Curad ouchless tape and Coach self adhering elastic bandages and numerous other materials--cotton and cotton balls etc..The ankle and middle knuckle are splayed and turned wrong and I need to get enough of tension somehow to turn them the right way and the other leg by way of a cobble method is not strong enough to pull it over. Do you have any experience with hanging a baby pigeon with a banana hanger and how would you hang the birdie safely by its body so that the feet just touch the ground. The pictures were interesting on answer #2 but none of them are right for this case and really don't share with one how to fix other then the cobble method that "we already tried" with very little improvement. But I sure do appreciate your suggestions for help..I am thinking maybe of a drinking straw situation or something over cotton or something??? Beats me this one but I am trying to work it out. terrible..


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## gingerpoo (Jul 31, 2008)

The boot forces his foot to stay open and beneath him. I've also used Popsicle stick pieces with cotton as a brace for the leg as well. But short enough tape between the two legs and boots is how I would try it first. How long has he been cobbled? I'd give it a week or so- being sure that the tape is not getting too tight. Also be very careful with the self adhering tape stuff ('vet wrap'), be sure to stretch pieces out rather that applying from the roll as it can get very tight on the body. Can you post pics of your bird?
Also where are you located?


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

c.hert said:


> I have a baby pigeon 6 weeks old and eating and drinking on its own and very healthy. The baby's leg is splayed out to the side--really bad. I have tried cobbles on lower and upper foot as well as a splint that was just too heavy for it and even though I had the leg taped with self taping it was too rough for the leg and made it bleed because of the tender leg skin. I now will resort to a cotton under type of padding with self taping that would be more tender on that foot. Right now I am massaging it and aligning it proper about every three hours and exercising it as well. It's hips are fine and the bird just came home from the Avian Vet who cobbled it for a week as well as me trying the week before. But to no avail and it just goes out sideways once again. It was a single egg that I missed in my loft because of cataracts and I call it the Oop's Baby. If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate. c.hert


At 6 weeks this birds legs are pretty set . It may work but I have never tried it on a bird that old . I have used the styrofoam insulation cover for pipes as a spacer between the legs . Just cut it to fit . Then I wrap it with electrical tape as it will give some. Just make sure you wrap it too tight . Keep checking on it . It may take weeks , and not come out perfectly no matter how you do it . Best of luck to you .
Kurps


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi c.hert. I had one a short while ago like that, and tried different things as well. What finally worked was pulling the legs into position with bandaids. The telfa part of the bandaid goes around the upper part of the leg on the skin, and then you stick the 2 sticky sides together between the legs, then do the same with the other leg, but close the sticky sides over the other bandaid. Then I did the same with the bottom half of the leg, as that would still turn out. So they are held together, the right distance from each other. You can pull them together as much as needed this way. You can also cut a piece of duct tape to a thin strip and tape that over them. Just make sure not to put everything on too tight, so the circulation isn't impeded. I then used a piece of that very wide strip of foam rubber that they use to put around air conditioners, to make a donut that he would fit into like a nest, so that his legs would hang down under him, and his feet would just touch bottom. Put him back into the nest box, and piled up the straw in the box all around the whole thing so that it just looked like he was on a nest, and the parents would still feed him. With tape, they would pull it off. After a couple of weeks, he was trying to walk, so although the legs were much better, but still not quite there, I then just taped the top half, the same way, and not the bottom, so that by walking around in the box, he could help to strengthen the legs. It took 3 weeks, but it did work, and he is better off with the parents if possible. Today he looks great. 

If you can get the legs together, even if the foot still turns out a little, he will be okay, and will be able to walk. Using the foam rubber to sit him in was better than hanging him, as he could stay with his parents, which is always better if you can. Just put paper towels over the foam rubber nest sides to change out daily. And check the legs daily, but as long as the tape isn't too tight, don't unwrap them. I unwrapped mine maybe once a week to check, then rewrapped. When he is finally able to walk, he will strengthen them. If you still want pics of how people did hang their birds, I can post them, but I like the nest idea better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I didn't realize how old the bird was. Sorry, missed it. Nest probably won't work for him, as he most likely won't stay in it at that age. Here is one who was older, and they were able to fix it.
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are the pics


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Really appreciate the support and some good ideas---thank you. Will keep you updated about birdie..c.hert


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Consider a donut ring. I had a towel twisted u and then formed into a ring with a hollow like a donut, set the bird in that and feet can dangle. Worked good for my lady girl.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The problem is that at 6 weeks old, it's hard to keep them in a donut or anything else. They want to get around, and will often use their wings. Then the legs get pushed backward behind them. Younger is easier to keep them in a nest or donut. Suspending him at this age would help.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I tried that for a week as well as cobbles and right now I am considering that again after its exercise for I have a donut made out of a soft tea shirt taped into a ring so that it can sit in it. This is a difficult splay and the only way that I can keep the birdie in is to towel its body but its foot slips under the ring and out the side still sideways. I made an appointment with a Avian Vet in Ft Collins on April 7th Tuesday at 11 am and my friends will drive me there to see if anything can be done. These ideas are good in theory for younger birdies but for this squeaker it is hard to put in practice for good results because of its robust energy and flapping ability. Right now it has a cobble on lower and upper leg but it does not turn the twist in its knuckle. I appreciate your dedicated response and will keep you updated on this affair. Now it is time Tuesday to see what the "real experts" will suggest. The suggestions of help might very well be the same as "our ideas", not too hopeful but I do know that they saved a pigeon by the name of Diamond by a endoscope where they took out a copper stripping out of her gizzard. So there is some hope here. That affair cost 700 dollars ---yeek...Thanks for the support..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Best wishes and good luck with your little cutie. Keep us posted please.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks and the University at Ft Collins is going to be a educational trip for me as well this oop's baby. Lets see what the latest advancement is? Regardless of how this goes to make everyone feel better I have another pigeon in my small loft that has the same problem as this birdie and she is almost 10 or 11 years old and has survived a mate and now she has another one and is "just in love". She is very very strong and in realty is the Queen of the Female loft for if any bird gives her any stuff she will fly on their back and they never bother her again. lol . She flies but just needs a soft surface to land on and is doing well. My loft is for disabled birdies. So now I have another one.
This birds shin bone is very strange and much longer than the normal one. The only thing that I am doing now is to keep the bones pliable and moving so they don't stiffen up before the visit to the "experts". Her ankle bone has a hump in it to where she cannot place her foot flat down only sideways and her hip area has a wide range of movement but my vet says it is in normal placement. So we will see how this all goes and I will share the adventure with you all. My girlfriend told me that I needed a road trip and we will make it a pleasant excursion and eat out too. This bird has been manipulated so much that she has no stress with anything and this is good. Another bird under stress could possibly die in your hands with open mouth breathing so this is one positive with this birdie. She is now peeping to get my attention and I am at her beck and call. She eats and drinks on her own and has a real good appetite. So we will see.
Thanks everyone.., especially for the support.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Actually I will elaborate a bit further. My 1.5 year old hen with the broken twisted leg, was IN a cat carrier that was not so wide, on a donut ring placed right in front of food and water dish, and she just hung out there until I would take her out and fuss her up, she was more than happy to set there as long as she had her feed and water at beaks length, she need not move out of her ring, she was very co-operative. Maybe I was just lucky. She graduated to a shallow dish and then nothing. She limps and gets along just fine. Follows me everywhere. Will be great to see what the vet can do for her, do keep us posted.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Doesn't work as well for a young bird with a splay. They aren't in pain like an older bird with a broken leg. They are just starting to move around, and want to get around anyway they can. They will often use their wings to walk if they have to. And they will often crawl out of the nest if they can. It needs to be deep enough so they can't get out, or they will often push themselves out of the nest and the legs will go out behind them as they try to crawl along. All depends on the bird. So whatever works.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Update: The oop's baby will have surgery at 9am in the morning (Wed). No amount of cobbling or restraints put on the leg to correct it would have helped. The knuckle bone I call it (Knee) is turned completely around in the opposite direction and the only help would be surgery. But there is a warning:..That leg could be straight out but with gentle exercise and know how it might bend some and the bird will be able to walk proper. But this we will not know until after the surgery, The way the bird is now it cannot have a quality life because the leg is going up into the air at 90 degrees right through the wing feathers and in this case would not be able to thrive. This is the only option for this pigeon to survive well----So I said : "Lets go for it". They will keep it awhile (if it survives the surgery) and when I pick it up in a week or so then they will train me on how to give it exercise every day for a long period of time in order to try to bend that knee after surgery. This is the birds only option and because of its age it was best to do it now at 6 weeks instead of older because of the leg being more flexible.This pigeon had no other option---say our birdie prayers....c.hert


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Good luck tomorrow. Hope the bird does well. It is kind of you to help him. As a person who exercises our pigeon every day, I know it's a lot of work and a commitment so bless you for taking this on, the exercise after surgery. Let us know please how he is doing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Good luck with the surgery. Let us know how it goes with the little one.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I have an update and the Avian Doctor went into consultation with the Avian Orthopedic doctor and this pigeon will be operated on Friday and when it comes out (if everything is good during surgery) it will have a external metal fixture on it for six weeks and wanted me to know about this and we can still exercise it gently until the knee heals. I believe that they call this a external fixture. So Friday is the day..Thanks everyone for the support during this terrible ordeal. Long live the birdie....Yes....Thanks again..


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## Ross P (Jan 10, 2015)

Wow, what is the cost of doing this?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

A lot of money and I will make payments each month as the crows fly..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Bless you for caring enough to get the surgery. Our first pigeon, Phoebe, was an injured feral who is now 8 years old and has cost thousands now but we don't regret it. We just make payments. She has been worth every penny for the love and devotion she has given us along with comic relief. So thank you for helping the little guy. You have a wonderful heart.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

All we have to do now is wait for the first step --- surgery and this will be a long process. My girlfriend and her husband drove me to this place and she is not fond of birds because she is afraid of them because of all the flapping and she is also conscious of her health as well. When we stopped at a place to eat on the way home she looked sad across the table and she said: What is that baby going to think when all this is done to it isn't it going to suffer? She's very sensitive. So I said look at it this way being the pillar of strength as I am feeling bad too. Human babies sometimes when they are sick have to be operated on -- sometimes they are only a few weeks or months of age. Why look at the decision the parents have to make with Siamese twins to separate them and maybe there is a chance that one might die. Look at all the small children with cancer or something in the children's hospitals and what in the world do those young ones think. I know this is not a good comparsion between pigeons and human babies but its the same thing---you just wait and hope for the best.
Now go back when we were in the examination room with those 8 or so young fresh faced students watching "oops" eat on the towel and say --how cute--as "oops" was scattering pigeon mix all over the room and think of what the vet said: "Look this squeaker drinks out of a silver spoon as I was giving it a drink and then asked me if the bird ate truffles and caverar too and I replied no doc--only escargo--and everyone had a laugh and a nice moment even my two friends. I said look back and catch the nice moments and we just have to move forward and see what happens. So it will have surgery on Friday. This is its only chance---so we wait..Thanks everyone.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Sent you a pm  Good luck on Friday.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

They just called me and the oop's is doing just fine. It had a abnormal Tibia and they cut and had to rotate it to the proper direction. They have pins through it and a external fixature holding it in place. They have it on pain medicine and other medicine as well. It's a little groggy but coming out of its sleep and moving its feet. They all are very attached to this 6 week old baby because it does have a neat way about it and it actually "greets" them with squeaking and energy no matter if it is hungry or not for they all feed it..They will keep me updated and "Oops" is doing just fine. It was a successful surgery.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh that's wonderful news. Thanks.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear oops is doing well! Three cheers!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

This is going to be a long trip for us. The doctor called this morning and said the leg is out to its side again and he is not happy with this and updated me. I asked are not the pins holding it in place and he said the femur was compensating for it and he was disappointed. He then said that he would try some different techniques and see if they can get it turned around more here. So we will see as tine goes by and very disappointing for me too. Maybe they have it turned around enough to not interfere with its wing like it was doing in the first place and this was its only chance of any kind of help for a more normal survival..So we will take day by day here and see what happens.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so hoping they will be able to fix oops. Keep us posted!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Gee, I'm sorry about this update. Hope they can work it out.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Im surprised the avian vet did not do this himself. Usually a reg vet wont take on such a task. Maybe they will allow you a discount or do the second attempt for themselves. Hope everything works out for the best.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

They are specialists in work in the Avian field--one a surgeon and the 2nd a Avian orthopedic specialists. They have worked at the University over 25 years and are talented and well thought of and people travel a long ways to see them. I believe they are one of the best in their field. My Avian Vet would not attempt this because of its age and lack of specialized equipment. But there is still a certain amount of hope here because even if it is not fixed 100% at least it might get the foot to lay flat instead of shooting straight up between the wing the way it was to begin with. I have a disabled bird loft and fly pen for I give a helping hand to disabled birds and this one if it survives will join the rest of the flock in time or not and this depends on how all of this goes down. I have one pigeon by the name of gimie and she is almost eleven years old and queen of the females and has a neat mate as well. Her foot lies turned and backwards and she does just fine. They need to have soft surfaces to land on so as not to scrape their legs and the loft has this---so we will see how it goes.. No there is no discount coming but it was a good thought...lol lol


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Bless you for caring for the birds with special needs! Phoebe is a special needs bird. We also have frogs over 17 nearly years old with names like Gimpy and Gimpy Eye because they have issues. They all deserve loving care. Thank you for your work! I'll be hoping for the best for Oops.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you for the sweet posting and I am going to take the high road here and think that this pigeon will join the loft environment. I just released 14 healthy wild pigeons who needed a helping hand and all remained in the wild except three who just demanded to get back into the loft so I let them in and what a celebration they had with their loft friends. None of the others have showed any interest in wanting in and only come here to eat and drink outside the loft. I released them about 6 days ago and they are doing just fine. These were pigeons who needed a helping hand during the winter months and now they are in full health and even flew with the other wild ones when they took off and flew because of a strange noise like other birdies flapping their wings. The three that came back I raised from about 2 weeks of age because a person was putting a new roof on and just put the babies in a box thinking the parents would come back and pretty soon it became obvious that the parents were not coming back so they called a friend who works in a vet office as a dog groomer and she called me and I called the new roof man back and told him to bring them to me. The sad part about it is they came from two different nests and one was gone. So now they are back safe and sound in the loft where they want to be---some of these birds one can't free because they were just too young in the first place and its the only home that they know. So far I made eleven spaces of room for birds needing help---Yes..Why I have one eye pigeons and half of tongue pigeons and pigeons with one good leg and they use the second half okay leg as a crutch. I have nerve damaged pigeons and inner ear damage pigeons and broken wings and one with one wing that came from Mickaboo out of California and his name is Pablo as well as Jasper who was shot many times with a shot gun and his name is Jasper and he will never fly but he is thriving like all the rest. I have two from Arizona one is Gimie and the other is Dom both are disabled and can never be released. They both have wonderful mates and are doing well. I also have some very old pigeons that cannot be released because of old age. So we just take day by day and do the very best that we can--one at a time. I have a very nice loft and fly pen with a concrete bathing and sun area in front for they love their baths. My hobby is just loving pigeons and doing the very best that I can for them for in the eyes of pigeons I see a reflection of the spirits of life. So we plug forward and wish the very best for this "Oops" who was born in my loft by accident. Thanks..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Update: "oops" is doing really well with eating and drinking and flirting with the staff by squeaking when he see's them no matter if he is hungry or not and they are becoming very attached with his neat self. The foot is improving for it is flat on the ground but turned out and he is able now to sit on it and they do have a hobbling situation going trying to turn it more--sounds complicated on how they have it. I shared the fact that this is a improvement from before surgery because he could not survive well with his foot going straight up in the air and interfering with his wing and tearing up the feathers. The wing now is more normal looking and not so ragged and he has full use of it with no foot sticking through it. He is not perfect but I do believe with this result--not perfect but much much better he can survive nicely. It lays out to the side now flat which is good. The doctor said that the knee (tibia) was abnormal in structure and backwards and this made the splay and no amount of hobbling even from a young age could have change it. It needed the surgery to rotate and change. So a good day. c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wow! That will make a huge difference for him to be able to fly. He may still be able to walk, even if the foot turns out. Only time will tell. Thanks for the update.


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Hi C.Hert! What a treat to bump into you here. Sorry to hear about your bird but it sounds like you are getting him where he needs to be. I hope everything else is going fine for you and your birdies!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Likewise dear forum friend and after our sadness things are going well. Birdie is doing as well as expected for that type of surgery, It will be disabled in a better way with a quality of life instead of wing interference. Thanks for the noting of me here and sure do love you and your family. c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Oop's is coming home on Monday and he is doing very well. The foot is still splayed out a little but not like it was and he is using it as well as his foot grabbing on to things. This is a improvement for now he is fully grasping that foot. Also he is flying and they found out the hard way by him taking off so this is good too for he is actually flying for the first time. We will pick him up on Monday after his rehabilitation exercises and they will show me how to do these. He is eating and drinking well and they are very attached to this neat little pigeon. So all is well...


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Thats great news!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad you persevered and that Oops is coming home! Great job!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You really did give him a second chance. Good job!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Lol good work, cant wait to see pics of those fancy new gams !!!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

They have updated me everyday but I will feel more confident about this situation when I actually see him. I asked about the bone below the tibia and how much is it splayed and they tell me (the assistants) that it goes out to its side and I ask how much out to its side?
They have different answers--one said like a dog lays--lol lol.. I tried to ask in different ways but get to the point that they cannot describe it too well. I tried what number on the clock is the splay and they have problems figuring this all out. But on the whole they have been just wonderful and there have been four different students so far and they are all attached to this pigeon and they update me every day. The most distressed day for me was after the surgery when the Vet updated and told me the surgery was not as successful as he wanted and the foot goes out to its side. So I need to see this for myself and Monday morning we will leave to get Oop's back home and this is a hour and a half drive to get there and I cannot wait. It's going to rain as well according to the weather report but I just want to hold "good old oop's" and see the results for myself. But they have been just wonderful and I am so glad the surgery is over with as well as all medicines by Monday. "Oops" will have that "external fixature" on for about 4 or 5 more weeks so that the Tibia (knee) can knit together. Yes I am ready for the birdie to come home. Thanks so much everyone for your support and best wishes for this I appreciate and really needed it at the time....Thanks so much...c.hert


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Will be nice to see some before and after pics. When my hen had a SEVERE injury, well literally a severance of the lower leg at the ankle, it was twisted completely around backwards, bone sticking out with only skin and one tendon holding it. I considered amputation. I called two vets and asked for help, both refused. So Im not a vet, wasnt about to cut off the leg. So with their help regarding amount of pain meds to administer to relocate and twist the leg back forward, we did it. Wrapped it but I knew it would not hold as the one tendon had to be cut off. Long story short, she CAN use the leg, it is turned IN sideways and she cannot articulate the toes, so the one toe in curled under and she uses that as her foot to step on and she can limp and get around REALLY well. She has formed a callus on that toe. She boogies around well. So am grateful for that as initially I thought I made the wrong decision as she could only hop and dangle this useless limb. Made me quite sad. Then one day i noted, that hey, she wasnt hopping??? I took a look and realized she was limping on it. These birds are amazing and adapt well. Yours will do great. Just comes with a larger sticker price lol.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I just loved the thread for the way a little bird has been helped and other disable birds too by c.hert and a hen by CBL.no one will be abandoned if we have such people around. You guys rock. Big smiles for you. Always keep helping them, they are love.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she can use the leg some and get around by walking, then her quality of life will have been much improved . You did a good thing. Would love to see the pics when you get her back home. That ride will seem very long to get to her.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It takes a special kind of person to do what you did CBL for that pigeon and at least with that leg it could use it as a crutch and have a quality of life. I could never have been a health care provider of any kind for animal or people because I get so stressed out in doing anything out of ordinary especially any type of surgery. I give a helping hand to these pigeons who come under my care. You CBL sound like real good vet material or even a bird rehabber and for that matter even a people nurse or doctor. You Jay 3 have been attending to birds for years now and you absolutely seem to stick with it and you would fall in the same category. Now Kiddy your a special case here because I know you believe in Ahimsa and I am so glad that you are enjoying this thread. We are having a major snowstorm here and I sure hope by Monday it is stopped and if not I will put off picking up the birdie because of the long drive in this type of condition. I do not have before pictures but I will try to get a few pictures for you all. At that time I might need a review on how to post pictures on this forum from a digital camera and I would be using Photobucket as well. I really want to get pictures of where the birdie is and how they kept it and all the little helpers as well. I will ask permission to be able to do this---so we will see. Over the years I have posted so many pigeon and loft pictures and I had people who thought that they were boring and the same pictures over and over and they got tired of them---lol lol. I love pictures especially of my critters. I just had a conversation with my loft birdies and told them that they are now going to get economy seed and no pigeon candy and no tobacco stems to keep to a budget and they are out there right now "grumbling" so I put their favorite music on softly. Thanks everyone..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

c.hert said:


> It takes a special kind of person to do what you did CBL for that pigeon and at least with that leg it could use it as a crutch and have a quality of life. I could never have been a health care provider of any kind for animal or people because I get so stressed out in doing anything out of ordinary especially any type of surgery. I give a helping hand to these pigeons who come under my care. You CBL sound like real good vet material or even a bird rehabber and for that matter even a people nurse or doctor. You Jay 3 have been attending to birds for years now and you absolutely seem to stick with it and you would fall in the same category. Now Kiddy your a special case here because I know you believe in Ahimsa and I am so glad that you are enjoying this thread. We are having a major snowstorm here and I sure hope by Monday it is stopped and if not I will put off picking up the birdie because of the long drive in this type of condition. I do not have before pictures but I will try to get a few pictures for you all. At that time I might need a review on how to post pictures on this forum from a digital camera and I would be using Photobucket as well. I really want to get pictures of where the birdie is and how they kept it and all the little helpers as well. I will ask permission to be able to do this---so we will see. Over the years I have posted so many pigeon and loft pictures and I had people who thought that they were boring and the same pictures over and over and they got tired of them---lol lol. I love pictures especially of my critters. I just had a conversation with my loft birdies and told them that they are now going to get economy seed and no pigeon candy and no tobacco stems to keep to a budget and they are out there right now "grumbling" so I put their favorite music on softly. Thanks everyone..


By Ahimsa you mean non-violence right? I read it twice to know is it really a Hindi word you mentioned or some misspelled english word.lol so how do you know it?
I totally believe in Ahimsa , very true and to save a life is very imp to me and I am really enjoying the thread because I loved the way you helped a bird even when really costly treatment it required. To me you are great and have a really helping heart.
I am new to this so I couldnt see your earlier posts but I will never ever be bored in seeing your critters pics even if you post them thousand of times because i just have unconditional love for critters and even if people criticise but I can't help it. And so just love the way you help. Thanks a ton for understanding the pain of a speechless creature. You rock


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

c.hert, I use photobucket too. Just upload them to photobucket, then click on the pic in photobucket. This will bring up links to click on, and you want to click on the img link, copy and then you can paste it. I usually copy and past them onto word. Then when I get them all together on word, just copy and past them on here.
I never got tired of your pics. I liked them. Especially the pics of your loft. I love seeing others lofts and different things they have done. Helps to get different ideas.
Sorry you are getting snow. I hope we're finally done with it, as it's been a long hard snowy winter here. But right now it's gorgeous out and spring like. Hope it stays nice now. Am loving this weather!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry to hear you may have to wait to bring oops home but agree that you are a wonderful person for looking out for the very special bird. Also wish you would send some snow to the cental coast of California as we could use the water in any form.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Wish you could send some snow here too.lol never saw snowfall in my life in my city. Temp here is 29 degrees and it seems really hot


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sure wish I could send you people so rain and snow and its a real soggy wet here in the city and we needed the moisture so this is good and the roads should be clear for the Monday drive. The Oop.s is doing just fine eating and drinking and squeaking when it sees the assistants so this is good. Thanks everyone..I will update you when I get the birdie home and I can't wait to see the birdie on Monday.

I thought that I posted this message this morning but somehow it went into Kiddy's messages by mistake. I am just learning again how to use this forum--lol lol...Have a nice day kiddy...c.hert


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes and so I replied you in pm because I wasnt knowing how to post visitor msg.I am new to this all 
You too have a nice time ahead


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Lol. Lol. We will learn these things together. I saw the nice message in your profile box and the only thing I got in my message box was your name, Somehow the message and name separated as well as my message to you for it went to your profile box but I deleted it then pasted it as a post like it was suppose to be in the beginning..We will learn together this forum. They updated the birdie and all is well and I will pick it up on Monday then update on what I can see about it.. Yes waiting is a long time.. thanks...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

c.hert said:


> Lol. Lol. We will learn these things together. I saw the nice message in your profile box and the only thing I got in my message box was your name, Somehow the message and name separated as well as my message to you for it went to your profile box but I deleted it then pasted it as a post like it was suppose to be in the beginning..We will learn together this forum. They updated the birdie and all is well and I will pick it up on Monday then update on what I can see about it.. Yes waiting is a long time.. thanks...



Lol.so you just got my name and not the msg and msg was in my profile box. Great I am doing good on pt.lol


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Oop.s is home and very glad to be home as well as me to have him home. He is doing fine and the leg because of the pins and a plastic tube type of thing attached has his leg straight out to the side but as I move it around in a certain position he can put his leg forward and sit on it which he never could do before so this is a improvement. He also is grasping with that foot really well. In about five weeks he will get the external plastic tube with the four pins off and we will know more about the success of this operation. In the meanwhile I will gently exercise him five or six times a day as well as give him some grasping exercises. He is glad to be home and right now after our big day he eat and drank and now is sound sound asleep. I have him in a cage that is surrounded by freezer paper and a soft ring of bird rugs so he will not get caught in the bars of the cage. He does exercise his wings by grabbing on to the nesting pad edge and this is good. He recognized his home and is very glad to be home. I took some pictures and in a few days will try to get them on here to share them with you all. All is well and I am glad this day is just about over with and I go to the eye doctor for a examination tomorrow to get me ready for cataract surgery in a few months, Just a update and his leg has improved since he had surgery and at least it is not going through and interfering with his wing actions...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for letting us know how things are going. I'm sure he must be very glad to be home. Look forward to the pics.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Great, look forward to the pictures of his cast as well. All in all sounds successful.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear Oops is home and doing well! Hope your upcoming surgery goes well too. You have good karma so that should help.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great that your Oops is better now and you got him home. With your help and care the sweet bird will have a good life ahead.thanks a ton for helping.big smile for you


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea I got him home and now can survey the situation. His leg is still sideways and I am exercising him about 4 times a day. But he seems to have other problems that are now happening. One problem is he can only eat tiny tiny seeds but I have been supporting him by feeding larger seed but when I open his mouth to drop in a seed or two he shakes his head like he is in pain so it is hard to give him seed or even crop feed if I have too. I am not optimistic at this point and will take him to my regular Avian Vet on Tuesday for him to see this situation. Also even with exercise his leg with that external piece on it is going through the wing. I want this piece off but have to wait another 4 or so weeks before they can take it off. So the bottom line here is I believe this was a complete failure but will wait out the time and work very hard with him and just take day by day. When I received him back they told me he lost a lot of weight and they said it might be baby fat that he lost but this is not so for when he puts seed in his mouth he loses it and can only eat tiny tiny seed and they did not notice this at all. I am disappointed but will wait and see what happens and truly believe that the outcome will not be good. Just a last update for now and when I come back I will start a new thread either with good news or bad so I am working on this and he is not in any pain and seems to be getting stronger and fatter. c.hert


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sounds like Oops is going to need a lot of TLC. Thank you for working with him and trying to fatten him up. Please keep us posted. I am sending the best wishes for his recovery. Phoebe was really injured and now is a happy healthy girl. When you consult with an avian vet you might want to ask about an appetite stimulant or a pain med like meloxicam if the vet thinks that might help. Phoebe took meloxicam. People here might have more ideas, ???


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

For his appetite try ' No Light Pills ' . They work well . You can get them at most pigeon supply stores . Good Luck ,
Kurps
Link
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/multiple-use-medications/605-foys-no-light-pills-20


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you for your wonderful suggestions. I have moved him into a large playpen that is cushioned with a lot of soft rugs and very soft pillows as well as plenty of food and water small seed and large seed. It has plenty of open window sunshine and it is in my bird room. I have given him space to fly which he can do and he stays at low height and this will be more exercise for him. As you see I have distanced myself from him at this time. I still supplement his feeding with peas and corn and wheat balls just to keep his weight gaining. He is not in any pain and the pain medicine has been stopped for two days and as far as light pills from Foys they do increase appetites for birds but this one has no problem with that for he is always eager to eat. The problem lies in the area of him picking up seed and eating them. Before the surgery he did fine but after the surgery he is like a baby learning to eat seeds and I think maybe some nerve has been affected that extends to his mouth area. But for now he is fine with me overseeing him with food and comfort and exercise but "I am weaning him from my constant attention" for mine sense of mind. He either will make it or not and I will check by the poopings and make my decision on Tuesday. He really likes the playpen for he can now hover and fly low and now he has a distance to go in order to get food as well. So it is day by day here and I am just waiting this out to see what happens when he is mostly on his own without me being a "hover mom"---I have done all that I could...Thanks everyone. c.hert


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Wishing the bird and you the very best c.hert!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I am trying to insert some pictures from photo bucket and everything is okay until I get here. I am using the insert image box and trying to paste the picture on but I guess I do not know how. So sorry and if anyone could give me directions then I will try again..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Just tried a picture again--no luck---I get a double link and I tried by making it a single one and taking img of at the beginning and end but no luck. I also tried the image box and still get a double link even when I try to paste it...Oh Well...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I just click on the img link and copy. Then you paste it here.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I hope you all enjoy these pictures and its strange for the pictures come up as pictures when you do not sign in but once you are in they come up as links..That's different-lol
Enjoy..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the pics.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The pigeon's mouth is doing just fine for he or she is now eating much larger seed and small pea seed--so I guess it had to get hungry enough to learn how to swallow the seed for itself. What a relief....The foot is now grasping really well and it is more flexible at the knee with exercise---so its improving...It's also copping an attitude that seems different from a baby birdie---its growing up I guess and realizes that it needs to feed itself but does not mind squeaking for more.. Thanks everyone for your support and only a month more to go with this contraption on its leg and then we will really see where we are at...lol Thanks once again...c.hert


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

So glad to hear Oops is doing well!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Glad he's doing better with eating. 
The exercises must be helping with the leg. Hope things continue to improve for the little guy.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Wow..just loved the pics and glad to know he is doing good. I couldn't log in for past few days so wasnt able to see. And yes even when I am logged in , it is still displaying pics and not just the links.so loved all of them.thanks a ton for the pain you took in uodating pics but these are worth for


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