# pegion vomited. Is he sick?



## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi all,

Recently got 2 adult homers (confirmed male and female) not known to each other. I felt that the female was not feeling well so was under garlic water treatment. 

This evening I kept water with vinegar in it. Both the birds ate well but didn't notice that female drinking that water. Also I gave few peanuts only to the male just to avoid oily stuffs to the female. Since I wanted to pair them as early as possible, so kept them in the same box and placed the water bowl with few garlic drops in it and saw the pair drinking that water. 

After some time heard the cooing sound from the box. I was curious to know whether the male was hitting or just getting along with her. As soon as I opened the door, I saw lot of vomit in the box. After closely observing, saw couple of pieces of peanuts in it. So I was sure it was him. And now my question is whether he is sick or it's an effect of drinking water treated with vinegar and garlic or is it something else that I'm not understaning?

Thanks,
Anand


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

could be a sour crop, just give regular water for now, and let them have the run of the loft untill they get use to each other. you say the hen was not feeling well..what exactly was going on with her? checking for canker, check down his throat for any nodules, and get a fecal sample to the vet.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Yes, just give regular water for 2 days and please get the sample tested as suggested. 

One more thing, different pigeons may have different immunity levels to diseases, so if the hen was sick when introduced to the cock, there is also a chance that a disease transferred and the vomiting of the cock was an out come of that. So it would be better if you could get the sample tested for the cock and the hen.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Could you tell us, how much vinegar you are using and what kind?

Karyn


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Could you tell us, how much vinegar you are using and what kind?
> 
> Karyn


Karyn,

I use braggs raw organic apple cider vinegar with the mothers about $6.99 qt.
I but it a my local food co-op. 1 tablespoon per gal. is what i
I use and my birds love it. I hope this helps.

Walter


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm using couple of spoons of American Garden - white distilled vinegar per gallon of water.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Just now saw some more vomit in the box :-(


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Can you use distilled vinigar? I've always been told to use ACV. Maybe that's the problem?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

anandcholli said:


> I'm using couple of spoons of American Garden - white distilled vinegar per gallon of water.


Please use only apple cider vinegar, the raw kind from the health food store, and only use a tablespoon per gallon of water.

She may be avoiding the water if it is too much, or she may has another health issue. Do open the beak also and look inside and see if there are any lesions, any foul smell or flem.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Oh but my other pigeons are drinking the same from past one month and are really healthy. Anyways I'll stop using that distilled vinegar and meet vet as early as possible


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Anandcholli, as the others have recommended, stop using the distilled vinegar, use ACV (apple cider vinegar, organic!) only, 1 tablespoon a gallon is good. I would start with the simplest thing first, removing the vinegar water, put some plain water, and see if he stops regurgitating. If he does not we, can try and figure out things from there.

Karyn


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Sure. And thanks guys for all your suggestions and concern. I'll update you guys tomorrow with the health details.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

This morning... the hen vomited twice in front of me. First time it was plain water like stuff and second time there was some greenish stuff in it. It didn't eat anything but just drank some fresh water. I've kept some food and water in the loft.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Don't take risk, I think both your pigeons need medical attention. Do you have a vet near by ?


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes have one near by my home... Will do that in the evening as I'm in office now.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi all, 

Good evening.

I called up few near by vets but they said they wont treat pigeons. So finally called up the breeder from whom I got these pigeons. He said he has a medicine for the same. 

So, after my office hours, I took both the pigeons to his place. He injected the medicine to both of them. He checked the hen and said she has not eaten anything and took some seeds/corns in his mouth along with some water and blew it in the hen's mouth ( i was surprised to see that) and asked me to do the same thing if she doesn't eat anything tomorrow and to pray for her life.

Tomorrow again I'll observe her health condition and update you people.

~Anand


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Never heard of feeding youngsters like that and would never recommend that.  

You can just hand feed and then syringe down some water if the bird isn't drinking on her own. Open beak and insert one pea or corn at a time (over and behind the tongue) , allow bird to swallow and repeat, until the bird has eaten about a tablespoon worth. Do this three/four times a day until she is eating again.

What was the name of medicine?


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Occassionally we follow that procedure of feeding pigeons by mouth, there are people here who feed baby pigeons by their mouth  but its not usually advised. Did he say what the disease was and what is the medicine which was injected ?


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

It was Ani R2B-h vaccine. He injected it under the wings by diluting with some water.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> Occassionally we follow that procedure of feeding pigeons by mouth, there are people here who feed baby pigeons by their mouth  but its not usually advised. Did he say what the disease was and what is the medicine which was injected ?


He said it's Ranikhet disease. I dont know what exactly it is


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Ranikhet I believe is a variant of PMV disease


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Screeshs is right, and how could he possibly know that they have PMV just because they are vomiting? Also, if they did have it, it is viral. A shot won't cure them. I don't that it is what they have. What other symptoms do they have?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Do you have any medicines on hand yourself or do you have access to a local place to buy them? Do you have any other birds than these two? Where are they kept, do they have access the open ground/soil? Do you know before you got them, where and how they where kept? Exactly how long have you had them? If you open their moth and sniff, if the any noticeable odor present? Could you post a photo of the droppings? Could you give us a weight on the two birds in grams?

Karyn


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

In the evening, I visited a vet. He injected some antibiotic (dont remember the exact name but i guess it was Polyaid hmmm not sure). And also suggested to give the followings. 

1. glucose with water for vitamin d & calcium
2. sporlac powder (lactic acid bacillus - earlier known as lactobacillus sporogenes)
3. enrofloxacin tab 50 mg.

I gave a very small portion of #2 and 1 tab of #3 along with water. Before treating her i fed her some food with the help of syringe. After that I shifter her to another safe & comfort place. 

But in the end all the effort to save that hen wasted. *She is no more and I'm sad*. I'm sad because I think somehow somewhere I didnt put 100% effort or it could be lack of knowledge .. i donno ...

And now I'm very much worried & confused whether my other birds have already got infected with the same disease :-(. Experts pl. suggest me shall I treat my other pigeons with #2& #3 for one or two days?

~Anand


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Thats sad man, but its a part of this hobby though.

Did you mention to the vet that you have other pigeons too ?

I would flock treat immediately as the time gap between the day of symptom and the death of pigeon is too short, which actually means that she was carrying the disease much before the symptoms arised. Your other birds need to be treated, I will not risk them.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Sreesh,

Yes I mentioned to him regarding my other pigeons. He asked me to treat them with #2 & #3 for 2 days. Is there anything else I need to consider?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anand,

I am sorry for your loss, please accept my condolences.



> 1. glucose with water for vitamin d & calcium
> 2. sporlac powder (lactic acid bacillus - earlier known as lactobacillus sporogenes)
> 3. enrofloxacin tab 50 mg.
> 
> I gave a very small portion of #2 and 1 tab of #3 along with water. Before treating her i fed her some food with the help of syringe. After that I shifter her to another safe & comfort place.


Could you clarify a few things, as I want to be 100% clear. With number 1, are you adding some vitamins and calcium to glucose water, or is what you are mixing up, glucose-vitamins-calcium, a combined products/all-in-one?

With number two, this seems to be a probiotic and we don't usually give them at the same time we are giving antibiotics. 

With number three, did you give her a whole 50mg tab at once, as if you did, this is many times the daily recommended dose, depending on weight, that she should have received. The Enrofloxacin/Baytril is a very good drug and if you post weights for your other birds I would be happy to help figure out a proper daily dose for them.

I also asked some other questions that you may have forgotten to answer to try and figure out what may be the cause of illness, the information could be helpful, as the illness could be bacterial in nature or it could be something else.

Karyn


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Hi Anand,
> 
> I am sorry for your loss, please accept my condolences.
> 
> ...


Hi Karyn,

Thanks for all the concern.

#1 is glucose-vitamins-calcium all in one product. It's a powder base and need to be diluted in water.

#2 There I went wrong i guess :-(. The vet gave the antibiotic and after reaching home I gave a small portion #2 along with 1 tab of #3 diluted with water.

#3 Yes 1 tab after diluting it in water along with small portion of #2. The weights of my other pigeons range between 120 gms to 200 gms.

And Sorry for not answering your other questions. I'll do that in my next post.

~Anand


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Dobato said:


> Do you have any medicines on hand yourself or do you have access to a local place to buy them? Do you have any other birds than these two? Where are they kept, do they have access the open ground/soil? Do you know before you got them, where and how they where kept? Exactly how long have you had them? If you open their moth and sniff, if the any noticeable odor present? Could you post a photo of the droppings? Could you give us a weight on the two birds in grams?
> 
> Karyn


Hey Karyn,

I've a wooden box with good ventilation which is divided into 4 portions. each portion is of 1'-1'-1.5'. I've the pigeons from past 2 months. I got this new pair just 4 days before the death of the hen. This pair shared one of the portions in the wooden box. All the birds have the access to open ground and share the same food/water bowls. All other pigeons including this new male are doing good. eating/drinking well. I checked the mouth of all the pigeons (just half an hour before), didn't find any noticeable odor. All my pigeonsweigh in range of 120 - 200 gms. Right now I dont have the pic of droppings but will upload the same.

Thanks,
Anand


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anand,

#1 is glucose-vitamins-calcium all in one product. It's a powder base and need to be diluted in water.

*This is fine, continue to give this as it will help with the bird's energy.*

#2 There I went wrong i guess :-(. The vet gave the antibiotic and after reaching home I gave a small portion #2 along with 1 tab of #3 diluted with water.

*Hold off giving any more #2 until any antibiotics have been stopped.*

#3 Yes 1 tab after diluting it in water along with small portion of #2. The weights of my other pigeons range between 120 gms to 200 gms.

*Could you please confirm these weights, as they seem more in line for doves. Perhaps it has to do with pigeon breeds I am not familiar with, but average pigeon weights are more typically in the 300-370 gram area. Sreeshs, if you are around, are there pigeons in India that weight this little?

With the Enrofloxacin we want to give 2mg for every 100gm of body weight, once a day, but it's really important that we get the bird's weight right.*

Please don't forget the other answers. How well are they eating and drinking on their own?

Karyn


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

Oh i'll confirm the wieghts in another half an hour.


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

one fantail baby - 120 gms and other pigeions are 200-250 gms and new homer male - 400+ gms


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Anandcholli,

Thanks for confirming the weights.

I just want to make sure, once more , that I have everything clear. 

The male homer is the bird you talked about in your first post, right? He regurgitated some crop contents in that post, has he regurgitated since then? How is he looking, is he displaying signs of sickness? Exactly how many birds in total do you have, are any others showing signs of illness? I still feel like the weights for your birds is light, what breed are they, how does their breast bone area feel, is it sharp feeling, or is the breast muscle area well filled in on them? Is the baby fantail showing signs of illness? Have you ever treated you flock for worms?

Karyn


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## anandcholli (Feb 8, 2010)

The male homer is the bird you talked about in your first post, right? 
*Yes*

He regurgitated some crop contents in that post, has he regurgitated since then? How is he looking, is he displaying signs of sickness? 
*Based on the regurgitated content, I assumed it was him. But I've not seen him vomiting after that. He is doing fine, eating/drinking well. No signs of sickness now*

Exactly how many birds in total do you have, are any others showing signs of illness?
*6 in total now*

I still feel like the weights for your birds is light, what breed are they,
*high flyers*

how does their breast bone area feel, is it sharp feeling, or is the breast muscle area well filled in on them? 
*it's sharp*

Is the baby fantail showing signs of illness? Have you ever treated you flock for worms?
*It's the most active pigeon . I've not treated her with anything yet*

Fyi ... yesterday I fully cleaned all the portions of box in the evening

Anand


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Anand, thanks again, I am a little clear picture in my mind of things.

OK, I would hold off for the moment treating any other bird with the Enrofloxacin right now, this may change though. The homer and fantail sound fine for now, but I am concerned with your highflyers, a sharp keel is not a good sign. How are they acting, how are they eating? What do you feed your birds, please be detailed. Again, to be clear, they have never been wormed? About how old are they?

The vet you mentioned, do you think he would do a fecal exam of your birds droppings to look for worm eggs or cocci oocysts? These infections can occur in other animal types and look the same under the microscope, so he does not have to treat pigeons/birds to a microscopic exam to look for them.

If anyone if familiar with what a typical weight for a highflyer is, could you please post it, as it would be helpful. I take it from the area of the globe Anand is at, they may be Pakistani Highflyers.

If you could post photos of the droppings and be clear what droppings belong to who, this would be good.

Karyn


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## Chilangz (Apr 3, 2008)

Anand,
Try Albomar for de-worming.
Use ACV in water (you can get it from Nilgiri store; ACV from American Gardens cost Rs. 110) - thrice a week.
Use garlic in water thrice a week.
This should help build immunity system.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chilangz, thanks for trying to help out, but I would be a little nervous about Anand using Albomar (Albendazole) to worm his birds. Albendazole, and it's close relative Fenbendazole (Panacur), have been noted for their toxicity to pigeons, please see the link below and there are other references on the Internet to this. There is very little room for error with these drugs and there are other much safer choices, especially with his birds not in top condition, that could be used if it's determined his birds need worming.

http://www.birdmedicine.org/

Karyn


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

It will be a little hard to find the dewormer which is not Albendazole based here in this mainland, unless someone knows a specific supply store. I have been using Albendazole for many years now. My doctor prescribes 1 - 3 drops depending on the condition of the pigeon. I haven't had an issue with them yet.

Most of the medicinal items which are found in Foys/Siegel's etc are not available here, unless you import it for your use. Well not only medicines, most of the loft accessories are not available.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sreeshs, thanks for posting this information, it's quite useful to know. I guess different regions of the world sometimes put limitations on just what's available and so we'll just have to manage the best we can with what is around, if need be. You wouldn't happen to know a typical weight for a healthy, adult Highflyer in your region would you?

Karyn


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

nope, I raise fancy breeds and honestly I never weigh them


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

sreeshs said:


> nope, I raise fancy breeds and honestly I never weigh them


I would have to agree with that one. I don't even own a scale that would weigh a pigeon. Just thought I would add my 2 cents.
Kurps


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I am somewhat like both of you and seldom weigh my birds. I really only weigh my birds when they become ill in order to to monitor which way their body mass is heading over the course of time. All of them though, if I weighed them, I am sure would weigh in at about 360 grams, +-25 grams, except for one small frill hen I have that varies between 300-310 grams. Sreeshs, my concern is that Anand says his birds weigh between 200-250 grams, and even taking in variations that may occur in different world regions for the sizing on similar breeds, if accurate, this body weight seems quite light to me for an adult bird, so if you know anyone in your general area that does have highflyers, and you could get an average weight, it would be helpful.

Karyn


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## adamp12 (Feb 4, 2009)

the first guess in vomiting situation ..could be worms .deworm the pigeons


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## mtripOH (Jan 4, 2010)

I might be canker i would take him or her to a vet that checks pigeons. do you have grit and vitamins ????


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