# Homer VS. Feral



## Flying Jay (Jul 6, 2009)

Hey, I was talking to my brother today and I was wondering which is better at evading a hawk? A homer or a feral. thanks God bless , James


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2009)

my guess would have to goto the feral cuz they live it everyday all day long.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree. A ferral pigeon would be more hawk savvy. Their survival skills are learned from the others in the flock, then mastered in living it day by day.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Get real folks--Hawks do not want ferral pigeons.
Look at service stations-fast food places-power lines --Alway lots of pigeons but never any hawks.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

sky tx said:


> Get real folks--Hawks do not want ferral pigeons.
> Look at service stations-fast food places-power lines --Alway lots of pigeons but never any hawks.


LOL...You need to see the eye doctor, sky.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Get real folks--Hawks do not want ferral pigeons.
> Look at service stations-fast food places-power lines --Alway lots of pigeons but never any hawks.


I want to know what you're on? And where can I get some?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Flying Jay said:


> Hey, I was talking to my brother today and I was wondering which is better at evading a hawk? A homer or a feral. thanks God bless , James


*Well I say that a healthy racing homer is better equipt at evading a hawk then some sickly feral sitting on the roof of a gas station.Who here among us would spend the whole day sitting at a gas station to see if a hawk will attack. The bottom line here is a hawk will eat any thing that it can catch.* GEORGE


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

george simon said:


> *Well I say that a healthy racing homer is better equipt at evading a hawk then some sickly feral sitting on the roof of a gas station.Who here among us would spend the whole day sitting at a gas station to see if a hawk will attack. The bottom line here is a hawk will eat any thing that it can catch.* GEORGE


George, you make it sound as though all ferrals are sickly. That just isn't true. And they aren't weak from sitting around all day on a gas station. They travel all over the place in search of food. And many are fed pretty darn well. Dealing with hawks is an all day every day occurance with them. You don't give them nearly enough credit. Put a flock of homers out on a roof for a week. Leave food and water out for them. Now put the same size flock of ferrals on a roof next door for the same time period. Leave them food and water for the week. At the end of the week, I'd like to take a count of how many are left in each flock. The ferrals would win, hands down. Without their loft to run to when the hawk strikes, they wouldn't last very long. The ferrals don't have a loft to run to, and they do pretty darn well.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

sky tx said:


> Get real folks--Hawks do not want ferral pigeons.
> Look at service stations-fast food places-power lines --*Alway lots of pigeons but never any hawks*.


Yep! Pretty darn clever, aren't they? 



george simon said:


> Well I say that a healthy racing homer is better equipt at evading a hawk *then some sickly feral sitting on the roof of a gas station*.
> 
> ** *Who here among us would spend the whole day sitting at a gas station to see if a hawk will attack.*
> GEORGE


 What? Just because a feral is sitting on a service station roof top, or any roof top for that matter, means they are sickly? 


** You really _are_ on a roll tonight aren't you George?  

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> George, you make it sound as though all ferrals are sickly. That just isn't true. And they aren't weak from sitting around all day on a gas station. They travel all over the place in search of food. And many are fed pretty darn well. Dealing with hawks is an all day every day occurance with them. You don't give them nearly enough credit.
> 
> Put a flock of homers out on a roof for a week. Leave food and water out for them. Now put the same size flock of ferrals on a roof next door for the same time period. Leave them food and water for the week. At the end of the week, I'd like to take a count of how many are left in each flock.
> * *The ferrals would win, hands down*.
> ...


They sure would. 

** They would probably run over to where the ferals were for help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They probably would! LMAO!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I say both, but.....lol.. there are probably more ferals that are in shape to do it, we tend to over feed and not get them out enough to get in shape or get hawk savvy, because we want to protect them.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

one other thought is if a hawk is around, the feral will go someplace else and stay away.
we have a peregrine living at town hall in my town, and there was a big flock that used to hang out there, the peregrine got some but the rest now hang out down at the boulevard and avoid that area of town.
plus they do not nest there anymore


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> I say both, but.....lol.. there are probably more ferals that are in shape to do it, we tend to over feed and not get them out enough to get in shape or get hawk savvy, because we want to protect them.


I AGREE...it all depends on the circumstances of both domestic and ferals, the disadvantages and advantages in their circumstances


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

i agree with sky


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

seanG said:


> i agree with sky


Then you don't know much about hawks.


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

please enlighten me since u know so much on hawks.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

seanG said:


> please enlighten me since u know so much on hawks.


hawks will eat anthing they can catch, they do not know the diff between a feral or purebred homer....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

george simon said:


> *Well I say that a healthy racing homer is better equipt at evading a hawk then some sickly feral sitting on the roof of a gas station.Who here among us would spend the whole day sitting at a gas station to see if a hawk will attack. The bottom line here is a hawk will eat any thing that it can catch.* GEORGE


George...it's this kind of comment that gives the pest control companies verbal fuel that leads to the extermination of innocent birds.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

the ferals around here look mighty healthy to me and if you think about it lots are prolly made up of lost homers mixed with ferals to begin with so your kinda putting down pigeons in general when you say that  Just the fact that they know how to live off the land kinda right there gives them an up on home bred birds if you ask me


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## Roller mike (Aug 5, 2009)

I say the hawk will eat what the hawk can catch racers, feral, doves, rodents, they will take what they can get, whatever will make a meal for them.


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

I agree with Jay3 ferrals, even if they have some homer blood in them, will do beter evading hawks simply because they are street smart. I think of it like this, if an olympic sprinter, (representing the homer) and a school kid (representing the ferral) both have to go through a bad part of town. The sprinter is more likley to get "jumped"
even though he is faster, because he goes in a strait line down one street to get home;
an abush waiting to happen. but the school kid will take short cuts, zigzagg, maybe even back tract and hide for a while in order to get home. May take longer, but it will get home! Also the muggers (hawks) don't care who they jump. sprinter or school kid, ferral or homer.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Columba livia! said:


> I agree with Jay3 ferrals, even if they have some homer blood in them, will do beter evading hawks simply because they are street smart. I think of it like this, if an olympic sprinter, (representing the homer) and a school kid (representing the ferral) both have to go through a bad part of town. The sprinter is more likley to get "jumped"
> even though he is faster, because he goes in a strait line down one street to get home;
> an abush waiting to happen. but the school kid will take short cuts, zigzagg, maybe even back tract and hide for a while in order to get home. May take longer, but it will get home! Also the muggers (hawks) don't care who they jump. sprinter or school kid, ferral or homer.


Very well put Columba livia!


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

thanks! i like to put things in parables.


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

I say it all depends on the situation and the condition of the bird (feral or homer).


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Flying Jay said:


> Hey, I was talking to my brother today and *I was wondering which is better at evading a hawk?* *A homer or a feral*. thanks God bless , James





ezemaxima said:


> I say *it all depends on the situation and the condition of the bird (feral or homer)*.


There ya go!  
A simple, _logical_, to the point, and _non argumentative_ or _demeaning_ (to either the feral or homer) analogy to the original question. 

Thank you, ezemaxima 

Cindy


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> There ya go!
> A simple, _logical_, to the point, and _non argumentative_ or _demeaning_ (to either the feral or homer) analogy to the original question.
> 
> Thank you, ezemaxima
> ...


 post #12..I thought I had said that already...lol..

quote: I say both, but.....lol.. there are probably more ferals that are in shape to do it, we tend to over feed and not get them out enough to get in shape or get hawk savvy, because we want to protect them.


I did not think it was demeaning or argumentative....


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> * post #12..*I thought I had said that already*...lol..
> 
> quote: I say both, but.....lol.. there are probably more ferals that are in shape to do it, we tend to over feed and not get them out enough to get in shape or get hawk savvy, because we want to protect them.
> 
> ...


* All I meant was that ezemaxima's post focused on two factors, *situation* and *condition*. Simple and to the point. That's not to say further comments within in a post are unnecessary. Just that that one _was_ very simple and to the point. 
My intention certainly was not to slight anyone's comments.

** Given that I had not included your post, I don't understand how you would think I was referring to you with regard to the 'non argumentative or demeaning' comment. Now I'm 


Just to clarify:
What I was referring to (and had addressed earlier) with regard to ezemaxima's post being non argumentative or demeaning was the comment below, insinuating ferals are 'sickly' birds, whereas racing homers are healthy.
There are sick and healthy among both ferals and homers. IMO that statement was unfair and only helps to create more problems for feral pigeons. That's not the kind of help they need. 



george simon said:


> *
> Well I say that a healthy racing homer is better equipt at evading a hawk then some sickly feral sitting on the roof of a gas station.
> 
> GEORGE
> *


*

Cindy*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> *
> 
> the comment below, insinuating ferals are 'sickly' birds, whereas racing homers are healthy.
> There are sick and healthy among both ferals and homers. IMO that statement was unfair and only helps to create more problems for feral pigeons. That's not the kind of help they need.
> ...


I agree with Cindy. I don't know where prejudiced people like this get the idea that ferals are all sickly. If anything, they're pretty good athletes, and have to be to survive. And some are fed pretty well, thanks to the kind and caring people who are not so prejudiced. I won't even describe some of the unhealthy conditions that many keepers of homers house their birds in. And all do not get the best of seed, or even clean water. Many are overcrowded and unhealthy. At least the ferals are out in the fresh air and sunshine. Saying that one is sickly and the other is strong and healthy is just a ridiculous remark. And uncalled for.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> * All I meant was that ezemaxima's post focused on two factors, *situation* and *condition*. Simple and to the point. That's not to say further comments within in a post are unnecessary. Just that that one _was_ very simple and to the point.
> My intention certainly was not to slight anyone's comments.
> 
> ** Given that I had not included your post, I don't understand how you would think I was referring to you with regard to the 'non argumentative or demeaning' comment. Now I'm
> ...


oh never mind. sigh...I was saying that I had said all that already.(#12.)..but I guess you missed that...lol...I did not want to spark A big drawn out wordy post. sorry for your confusion......


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

all the ferals dontowns and around are pretty healthy, i see them flying and i think they can avoid anything , im amazed by ferals, even those little brown finches..
searching for the food all day.
avoiding being stomped on.
hard life but they strong birds.
i love ferals
if i had a choice what to be in my next life id chose to be a feral pigeon
they faster and better than hawks )))))


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i know not all of them make it and thats a shame
but here are some good videos on escaping hawks
think positive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiOHAaGNXkM&NR=1


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D6UsaTflJ8&feature=related


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

AZWhitefeather said:


> * All I meant was that ezemaxima's post focused on two factors, *situation* and *condition*. Simple and to the point. That's not to say further comments within in a post are unnecessary. Just that that one _was_ very simple and to the point.
> My intention certainly was not to slight anyone's comments.
> 
> ** Given that I had not included your post, I don't understand how you would think I was referring to you with regard to the 'non argumentative or demeaning' comment. Now I'm
> ...


*As I see it most of the people that posted on this thread have never raced homers, and do not understand that to race well a race bird MUST be healthy. In my earlier post Isaid a healthy racer isbetter at evaiding a hawk then a sick feral and I still stick to that statment.In the 15 years that I raced I can say that I may have had 10 - 15 hawk attacks while my birds were loft flying and never lost a bird to a hawk.My birds were healthy and in top racing condition.Of all that have posted on this thread how many have raced?How many have ferals that they loft flew as I did with my race birds,on a daily bases,and had their birds in top condition?One other thing I would point out hawks hunt using different methods and they do not sit in one place all day long. They move to different sites all day long, and if they make a kill of a good size bird they will stop hunting, the only time that they continue to hunt is while they are raising young.* GEORGE


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

george simon;427124 In my earlier post Isaid a healthy racer isbetter at evaiding a hawk then a sick feral and I still stick to that statment..[/B said:


> GEORGE


Kind of a ridiculous statement George. Of course a HEALTHY racer could evade a hawk better than a SICK ferral. Just as a HEALTHY feral could evade one better than a SICK racer.

But your comment makes ferals sound sickly, and that just isn't so. I see hawks in my yard often, chasing the ferals. And I also see the birds out maneuvering them. If your racers were out there as often as this feral flock, they would eventually be picked off sooner than the feral flock. They live with it all the time, and therefore learn better how to evade them. I mean come on, it only makes sense. What you do constantly, you get good at.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> *I did not think it was demeaning or argumentative*....





spirit wings said:


> oh never mind. sigh...
> I was saying that I had said all that already.(#12.)..*but I guess you missed that*...lol...I did not want to spark A big drawn out wordy post. sorry for your confusion......


Nope! I didn't miss that. 

If I post a statement that I feel has been misinterpreted by another member (_hence the above_) I am going to address it, rather than ignore it, whether my explanation is wordy or short. 

Since we have both explained our statements, let move on. 

Cindy


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Kind of a ridiculous statement George. Of course a HEALTHY racer could evade a hawk better than a SICK ferral. Just as a HEALTHY feral could evade one better than a SICK racer.
> 
> But your comment makes ferals sound sickly, and that just isn't so. I see hawks in my yard often, chasing the ferals. And I also see the birds out maneuvering them. If your racers were out there as often as this feral flock, they would eventually be picked off sooner than the feral flock. They live with it all the time, and therefore learn better how to evade them. I mean come on, it only makes sense. What you do constantly, you get good at.


they either get good or get eaten ,thats just the natural order of things


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> they either get good or get eaten ,thats just the natural order of things


That's true.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

george simon said:


> * *In my earlier post Isaid a healthy racer isbetter at evaiding a hawk then a sick feral and I still stick to that statment.*
> 
> GEORGE


* Well, yeah!  Anything sick (whether it be a human, cat, dog, bird, etc.) is not going to be at their peak performance. 
Rather they will be vulnerable, in whatever aspect. That's just a given.

You were comparing the performance of a healthy racer to that of a sick feral. That's not a comparison. That's a disadvantage.

How about this:
Matching up a street smart, *healthy*, feral to a *healthy* racer who comes straight out of a loft. 
Although one is wild by nature and the other is thrust into the wild from a secure environment, both are *healthy*.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Cindy, the street smart feral would have the advantage. It's like saying that a rich college grad from the better part of town, better fed, and with all the advantages, and a street smart guy from the tougher part of town. Now which one do you think would be better suited to avoid the gang bangers and pick pockets, and people who assault you on the street corners? Who would be better equipped to outsmart them? And why?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I POSTED TO THIS THREAD EARILY THIS MORNING WHY HAS THAT POST BEEN REMOVED!!!! I am not happy about this, it seem like some don't want to hear a different opinon* GEORGE


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

george simon said:


> *I POSTED TO THIS THREAD EARILY THIS MORNING WHY HAS THAT POST BEEN REMOVED!!!! I am not happy about this, it seem like some don't to hear adifferent opinon* GEORGE


What post are you referring to, George?
I don't see any indication that a post has been removed.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

AZWhitefeather said:


> What post are you referring to, George?
> I don't see any indication that a post has been removed.


*The post that I refere to started with I still stick to what I said in my first post on this subject. This was a lengthy post * GEORGE


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

george simon said:


> *I POSTED TO THIS THREAD EARILY THIS MORNING WHY HAS THAT POST BEEN REMOVED!!!! I am not happy about this, it seem like some don't want to hear a different opinon* GEORGE


Maybe you forgot to hit the "submit reply". I've done that.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

george simon said:


> *The post that I refere to started with I still stick to what I said in my first post on this subject*. This was a lengthy post GEORGE


Unruffle your feathers, George. 
Is this the post you are talking about? It's post # 34.



george simon said:


> *As I see it most of the people that posted on this thread have never raced homers, and do not understand that to race well a race bird MUST be healthy.
> In my earlier post Isaid a healthy racer isbetter at evaiding a hawk then a sick feral and I still stick to that statment.
> 
> In the 15 years that I raced I can say that I may have had 10 - 15 hawk attacks while my birds were loft flying and never lost a bird to a hawk.My birds were healthy and in top racing condition.Of all that have posted on this thread how many have raced?How many have ferals that they loft flew as I did with my race birds,on a daily bases,and had their birds in top condition?One other thing I would point out hawks hunt using different methods and they do not sit in one place all day long. They move to different sites all day long, and if they make a kill of a good size bird they will stop hunting, the only time that they continue to hunt is while they are raising young.* GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Jay3 The postwas long and I always check the thread to see that it has been posted it was there when I checked right after I posted. GEORGE*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay. Well it's still there. Still with that ridiculous comment that you seem to be so proud of.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Yes Cindy that is the post* GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Okay. Well it's still there. Still with that ridiculous comment that you seem to be so proud of.


*What are you looking for a fight , some of your posts have also been on the ridiculous side.But I have over looked them as I felt it would not be in the best intrest of others that come to this forum.TO START A FIGHT with you.I am truly sorry that this has happend but so be it.*GEORGE


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

I think it all comes down to this ..which bird is more likely to survive in the wild period ..think about it like this ,out of all the lost racers in the wild how many do you see compared to feral ones , that right there should give you your answer .. but thats just my 2 cents on this subject and everybody is entitled to their own opinion cuz it really isnt hurting anyone


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## littlelady (Oct 15, 2009)

LokotaLoft said:


> my guess would have to goto the feral cuz they live it everyday all day long.


hi i just joined this site i found a pigiom about 2 months ago it was injured or sick not sure with some help with a pigion orginization i was able to help him... but he cant fly like he should... i have decided he can't be relised and now i am keeping him as a pet... he has grown quite attached to me... i was wondering if anyone has any helpful advice..on this matter


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

littlelady said:


> hi i just joined this site i found a pigiom about 2 months ago it was injured or sick not sure with some help with a pigion orginization i was able to help him... but he cant fly like he should... i have decided he can't be relised and now i am keeping him as a pet... he has grown quite attached to me... i was wondering if anyone has any helpful advice..on this matter


 it might be better if you started a new thread with your questions and then more people would see it and could help you we have many great advice givers here that should be along soon as they see it


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Homers are more quick, but may not be as hawk smart. Either one could easily out run and/or out maneuver hawks. I wouldn't say one was better or worse at hawk dodging than the other. Any birds who stay in one place for a length of time will be in danger of hawks, as the hawks do learn where the pigeons roost, feed, or most frequently visit. Hawks in the city have the good life because they have many flocks of ferals they can hunt. Maybe that's why you don't see them as much. Hawks out here in the country do not, so it might not even be a day after a lockdown that the hawks are on my birds' tails again. Doesn't mean the pigeons are sickly or anything, making them easy targets. Just means a hawk has to eat, and chances are they are going to go after something airborne before they go after things on the ground. In the air there is nowhere to hide, on the ground rabbits and other animals can hide in bushes and holes.
There's a lot that goes into whether a pigeon can escape a hawk attack or not. Age, health/fitness, breed (can greatly effect speed), location, weather, and if they saw the hawk in time to get a good start.

Another thing to add, homers don't go in a straight line to get home, and if they see a hawk, they will do everything they can to get away. Flying faster, dodging through trees, landing in thick trees, flying in whatever direction they need. That's where a lot of young birds are lost. Just because they are not wild doesn't mean they don't know danger when they see it. That's what instincts are for. Ferals are more street smart of course, because they are used to fending for themselves. They are also probably much more alert/paranoid of predators if they are frequently visited by them. Just like I've seen some of my birds jump or freak out at the slightest things, because they had been chased by hawks a lot in a short period of time. Again, it goes back to what conditions the birds are under. If the ferals were never exposed to any predators, the chances of a quick response would probably be more slim.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

littlelady said:


> hi i just joined this site i found a pigiom about 2 months ago it was injured or sick not sure with some help with a pigion orginization i was able to help him... but he cant fly like he should... i have decided he can't be relised and now i am keeping him as a pet... he has grown quite attached to me... i was wondering if anyone has any helpful advice..on this matter


*Hi LITTLE LADY, Welcome, thank you for helping this bird . There are people that have pigeons as a pet and I am sure one of those will help you. * GEORGE


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

george simon said:


> *What are you looking for a fight , some of your posts have also been on the ridiculous side.But I have over looked them as I felt it would not be in the best intrest of others that come to this forum.TO START A FIGHT with you.I am truly sorry that this has happend but so be it.*GEORGE


NO George, I'm really not trying to start a fight with you. But the comment that made ferals sound sickly wasn't fair. And it just isn't true, as has been stated. Yet you still came in and said that you are sticking with that comment. Do you not think that calling ferals sickly is a prejudiced remark? If you feel that way, could you explain why you do? You must understand that those of us who have ferals as pets are going to find that comment offensive. Also the many people who like them, feed them, and enjoy them. And I just don't see any reason to use offensive remarks about any bird. Feral or purebreed. And it really doesn't help their cause to be refered to as "sickly ferals". Now if you see that as starting a fight, Maybe you started it with the remark. JMO.


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

*IMO* i think ferals are not in as good of condition as racing homers seeing how they dont drink clean water they only eat what they can find and they dont have good shelter which would make them sickly. not that i have anything against ferals seeing how im rehbilatating 2 ferals.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

Seang how do you think the rest of the worlds birds are living in the wild then ? are they all sickly too


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

yes lol no im just kidding idk i never thought of it that way but how can they be healthy


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Nope! I didn't miss that.
> 
> If I post a statement that I feel has been misinterpreted by another member (_hence the above_) I am going to address it, rather than ignore it, whether my explanation is wordy or short.
> 
> ...


ok sorry


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

seanG said:


> yes lol no im just kidding idk i never thought of it that way but how can they be healthy


because evolution has lead the way for them to succeed .. living off the land is the natural order of anything wild they surely wouldnt exist if they were sickly.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

George, I usually love reading what you write and respect you because of your age you should have allot of experience and wisdom, but to keep on saying what you do about ferals being sickly is outrageous. You have had couple chances to retract what you said but instead you pushed the issue even more. Come on, its okay to admit that your wrong about that, I won't think any less of you. But you really can't really think that all ferals are sickly. I mean to put all ferals in a category of being sickly, how would you like if we said all old people are sickly. Your a smart man, do you really mean that about ferals?

The only one that really believes what you said about ferals is a 16 year old. mindy


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

So Seang, are you saying that all wild birds and animals living as nature intended, are sickly? And that ALL racing homers are kept in perfectly clean conditions, with clean seed and fresh water at all times. And are never overcrowded or over stressed, and are therefore healthier?


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

omg i never new pt was so visious but i still dont no i think of it as a homeless person and a working man. i dont get how ferals can be healthy and drink dirty water and have no shelter.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

seanG said:


> omg i never new pt was so visious but i still dont no i think of it as a homeless person and a working man. i dont get how ferals can be healthy and drink dirty water and have no shelter.


sean you really need to watch more animal planet lol  clean water is everywhere, think flowing brooks ,streams and rivers ..wild birds fly for miles to find food sources and water when they need it ..you are thinking to small minded like


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## seanG (May 30, 2009)

there is no rivers where i live lol but yes i get your point and im still young i have alot of learning to do.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

seanG said:


> there is no rivers where i live lol but yes i get your point and im still young i have alot of learning to do.


its ok learning as you go is what its all about here .. birds have their ways of surviving even in the worst of conditions when they need to .. they are built to last everywhere and anywhere thats why they are still here after all these years and not extinct


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree with lokotaloft and Jay 3.
Animals learn to survive and are strong enough to survive. The sad truth is the reason for most animals becoming extinct is because of MAN.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

seanG said:


> omg i never new pt was so visious but i still dont no i think of it as a homeless person and a working man. i dont get how ferals can be healthy and drink dirty water and have no shelter.


SeanG, why would you think of a feral pigeon as a homeless man? And why do you think that they have no shelter? Believe me, they work a lot harder than a loft bird, everyday, just trying to find food, raise babies, and evade predators. They live as God meant for them to..............free. Just as all the other birds do. Birds were never meant to live in a loft. That is not the natural order of things. They are'nt homeless. They have homes where they live and raise their young. And they are just as strong and healthy as the robins and cardinals and other song birds, and yes, even the raptors. The way they live and survive is natural. And they have to be healthy and fit to do that.


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## Flying Jay (Jul 6, 2009)

Ok, thanks for all your posts guys. New question, which one do you think is better at dodging or out manuvering a already attacking hawk, feral or homer?


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## jmaxpsi (Jul 31, 2009)

Here's my 2 cents: I think survival of the fittest. Ferals are strong birds and some of their immune system is alot stronger. If they didn't, they would already be hawk food. Here is an example: One guy is a couch potatoe and doesn't exercise on a regular basis. The other, much thinner and works out too much. Who is most likely to get sick? How many of you has gotten the flu after you take your flu shots? I would say, the feral has a better chance of evading the predator. They are more aware of their surroundings.

From what I've seen, my homers are the faster bird as in speed. But I do see my ferals dive and manuver better. That's just from what I've seen. I guess because I cooper was attacking my ferals and they were all scattered. Luckly my homers where in the loft. That's just my opinion.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Flying Jay said:


> Ok, thanks for all your posts guys. New question, which one do you think is better at dodging or out manuvering a already attacking hawk, feral or homer?


The one that is the most fit and healthy...WHICH CAN BE.....BOTH, you see there is no feral vs homer, they are all pigeons when it is all said and done, I do not think one has advantage over the other,as long as one trains his homers to be fit and they are healthy...perhaps they could be "fitter" than a feral...but who cares! ...but I do enjoy the opinons about really fit homers, that is a good question in, are or could they be as fit or more than a feral...well of course. and visa versa.....there has also been questions before about can a feral home and they do, not sure if they can from 200 miles but, that is a subject for another day...lol... Im wondering why you ask? are you and your brother wanting to put ferals in your loft?


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## Flying Jay (Jul 6, 2009)

me and my brother already have a homer and a feral in the loft and we home them both and he says his feral is better but i dissagree because he is fat and slow. anyway I just thought i would see what you guys have to say about it. thanks james


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## Airbaby (Aug 9, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> SeanG, why would you think of a feral pigeon as a homeless man? And why do you think that they have no shelter? Believe me, they work a lot harder than a loft bird, everyday, just trying to find food, raise babies, and evade predators. They live as God meant for them to..............free. Just as all the other birds do. Birds were never meant to live in a loft. That is not the natural order of things. They are'nt homeless. They have homes where they live and raise their young. And they are just as strong and healthy as the robins and cardinals and other song birds, and yes, even the raptors. The way they live and survive is natural. And they have to be healthy and fit to do that.[/QUOTE
> 
> I am not so sure how natural ferals actually live....if you take away the houses, bridges, billboards, buildings, etc. I wonder where they would nest? I have yet to see ferals or homers building nest up in a tree. I think ferals are alot more dependent on humans than one actually realizes IMO...if it were not for the grain bins and food sources similar to this where would they eat? They certainly dont go pick there own corn. In my own experience holding a Racing Homer and a Feral it I could feel there was alot of difference holding the two, I am not sure I would use the word sickly... but the feral for me everytime felt alot lighter and scrawnier out of the 2 birds, so I can understand why George would use the word sickly. IMO both racers and ferals are depending on humans for survival, one does it from a loft and one from living outside.
> I think in most cases a racer would outfly a feral easily in a hawk attack, however from what i have seen from the attacks on my racers it had nothing to do with there skill or how fast they could fly...it came down to the skill of the hawk, younger inexperienced hawks had a harder time catching them, but a more mature experienced hawk used alot better tatic and had a better chance of catching them.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think ferals have the ability to revert back and fend for themselves completely, like the wild Rock Doves do. But even then they mainly visit the grain fields to pick up stray seeds, so eh. Even though we're constantly destroying the earth, I think we've made a pretty big impact as far as wild animals depending on us/what we build, grow, and leave behind. I have a feral too and I was VERY surprised by how light and small the bird was. Such a dainty little fellow, it looks like he floats through the air instead of flying. But here's a few things to consider. One, ferals are exposed to a lot of worms, coccidia, and other parasites without humans to give them medicine for. They also are not provided all the food they want from us. And one more thing, they fly a lot. Most of their day is probably spent flying, if not for fun, then to find food. Birds in good shape will be solid built (not too thin with the keel protruding) but won't feel like a sack of bricks.
I wouldn't call them sickly or dirty, or anything like that. I think dainty is a good way to put it, or at least for some of the birds (like the one that found me). They may not be as clean as ours (bug-wise), but the ones who are flying around and happy, appear to be just as healthy. Even if they are carrying bacteria/viruses (which are obviously not effecting them because of their adapted immune systems), that doesn't mean they are sickly. If they were sick, they'd look...well...sick


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Airbaby said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> I am not so sure how natural ferals actually live....if you take away the houses, bridges, billboards, buildings, etc. I wonder where they would nest? I have yet to see ferals or homers building nest up in a tree. I think ferals are alot more dependent on humans than one actually realizes IMO...if it were not for the grain bins and food sources similar to this where would they eat? They certainly dont go pick there own corn. In my own experience holding a Racing Homer and a Feral it I could feel there was alot of difference holding the two, I am not sure I would use the word sickly... but the feral for me everytime felt alot lighter and scrawnier out of the 2 birds, so I can understand why George would use the word sickly. IMO both racers and ferals are depending on humans for survival, one does it from a loft and one from living outside.
> I think in most cases a racer would outfly a feral easily in a hawk attack, however from what i have seen from the attacks on my racers it had nothing to do with there skill or how fast they could fly...it came down to the skill of the hawk, younger inexperienced hawks had a harder time catching them, but a more mature experienced hawk used alot better tatic and had a better chance of catching them.


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How do you think the wild rock doves survived. Of course they don't nest in trees. That wouldn't be natural. Don't worry. Without our manmade structures, they would do just fine. And as far as picking their own corn, there are plenty of things other than that that grow out there. Pigeons survived a long time without us. They were built for survival. And sickly birds can't do that. If they weren't strong and fit to begin with, you guys wouldn't have your birds today. Pigeons were wild long before they were ever domesticated, and they did just fine.


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