# Lost his voice? Is that abnormal?



## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Hi about 5 days ago my pigeon cooed and everything normaly and then the next day its coo was softer and the next day even more softer and today it is barely noticable. He still eats and poops fine and also does his cooing and turning but his voice is almost muted. He is almost 1 year old. So is this normal or abnormal?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Skye went thru a period where he would not "roo-koo" during the molt one year, all I could hear was the "Wak-Wak". It sounded so strange not to hear the full "roo-koo wak-wak".

I took him to my avian vet and she checked him out and said he was fine, she said they can lose their voice due to molting, so perhap that is possible.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I wish my birds would loose thier voice, especially Yodi.  Just kidding.
I haven't had this, but I think Treesa is right. Give it a few days and see what happens. 
If he is acting otherwise normal (eating, drinking, preening, bathing) I wouldn't worry too much.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> I wish my birds would loose thier voice, especially Yodi.  Just kidding.



LOL Reti!  Oh, you would not be able to stand the silence.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Trees Gray said:


> LOL Reti!  Oh, you would not be able to stand the silence.



LOL, probably not.

Now, you haven't met Yodi, he is a ringneck dove and he yodles (sp) all day long and sometimes at night. He is getting better at it every day and louder too. At night I have to move him to the living room so my neighbors won't get bothered.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> LOL, probably not.
> 
> Now, you haven't met Yodi, he is a ringneck dove and he yodles (sp) all day long and sometimes at night. He is getting better at it every day and louder too. At night I have to move him to the living room so my neighbors won't get bothered.
> Reti


Sounds like a very happy, contented, and well adjusted birdie. I do want to hear Yodi, I'll be right over!


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Thats a relief. I believe its from the molting. Thanks for the info!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Thats a relief. I believe its from the molting. Thanks for the info!



I'm not saying that it is the case with your bird, just a possibility. You should have the bird examined by a rehabber or avian vet, if the bird shows any signs of ill health.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok right now 
he is:

Shaking sometimes
He breathes altile raspy 
Loud raspy sneezes.

What should i do?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

He also doesnt have voice.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Shaking sometimes
> He breathes altile raspy
> Loud raspy sneezes.
> What should i do?



First you need to isolate him from your other pigeons, if you have others. Bring him inside and put him on a heating pad on warm, make sure to keep him in draft free area, and make sure he is eating and drinking. 

This sounds like it is a respiratory infection. 

Has the bird had any changes in air quality, or moved to another coop?

I would give him a garlic capsule each day down the throat, Sovereign Silver colloidal silver as well as ACV, and probiotics, as other diseases can come along when they are down.

You should get a diagnosis from an avian vet, so the bird can get the correct drug designed specifically for exact disease. Sporadic drug use at inadequate levels can cause rapid resistence to medication and be ineffective as well.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You have access to alot of wonderful health food stores (trader Joe's, Mothers Market), so the NOW brand garlic caps should not be hard to find, as well as the colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver-for infections).

I would even get some echinacea drops, without alcohol and give him 1/4 of a human serving for three days.

You can really help him by inundating him with an arsenal of good prevention and nutrtion at this point.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Where can i get the garlic capsul. There is one vet close by but they dont answer the phone.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok so right now i should go to traders joe 
and buy the NOW brand garlic capsules and give one to him?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

SO i should go to traders joe and:

Buy the NOW brand garlic capsule and give him one everyday?

and the colloidal silver ?(Sovereign Silver-for infections).

you said " as well as the colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver-for infections)."

what is that?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Do you have an instant messenger i could talk to you with?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It is a natural antiinfective, it will not harm the bird.
If you can go now it would be good.

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Flying Pidgy,

I will try and get a hold of Ms Gray for you.The garlic capsuls probably will not be found at most vet clinics. You will be able to find both of her suggessted products at most health stores. The garlic will boost the pigeons immune system and the colloidal silver treats for infections. Just a few drops down the throat should do.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Thank you .


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

are the capsules small enough that he wont choke on them?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

One more thing, while you are there, see about getting some Braggs ACV with "mother" in it. It sells for about 3 bucks and the apple cider vinegar concentrate goes a long way diluted with water.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

For an adult size pigeon, not a problem. You still might have time to run to the store before it gets too much later. We can talk later. Someone is always "on".


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok im going now. Thanks.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

My baby pigeons sort of half lost their voices when they were young..As in, their peeps were forced. But they only got this when they started growing in their feathers and have had it for over a month now. So I figure that's nothing to worry about?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

I went to traders joe, Obriens marketplace, Longs drugs, Walgreens and there wasn't anyof the brands listed. There were other brands but i dont want to risk using it on him because they are made for Humans not pigeons. The capsules were quite large also around this size:

(......) 

What should i do?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Which medicine should i order?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Flying Pidgy,

I am sorry that you did not have a succesful trip at your health store. 

The capsule size you depicted is about right. Is it a gel cap coated one? Hold the pigeon first, then run the gel cap or tablet under water to lubricate it, then pop it in his beak...he will swollow it.

As far as the Now brand, it doesn't have to be necessarily that brand. It just works well with Ms Gray and her birds. I personally use the pigeon garlic powder as a preventative measure. I obtained mine at Foy's pigeon supply house via the internet/mail order.

Now, the ACV does not HAVE to be Braggs with the "mother" in it, as long as it is a apple cider vinegar mix. I again, use mine as a bi-weekly preventative measure for my birds. I place a teaspoon and a half in a half gal. water jug. It can be increased for ailing pigeons.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Yes they are gels. Should i go back and buy them?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I was just going to sign off to go home. I sent you a pm.

Are they still open this late?

If they are, please do so. 

And get the ACV apple cider vinegar. It does not have ti be the Braggs brand.

The garlic caps do now have to be the "Now" brand.

Run the capsule under water and pop it in his beak/mouth. He will swollow it. Gently massage his throat(crop) just to aid in going down. 

I will try and sign on if it is not too stormy. I am sure others will be along as well fp.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

They did not have any " NOW" brand.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Victor said:


> The garlic caps do now have to be the "Now" brand.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Could you please rephrase that?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I am home now...I am sorry. I shall rephrase that. I meant to state it does not have to be Now brand.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

For now, just keep him isolated and warm...comfy. Keep an eye on his poops.
Do you have any GNC health food stores there where you live? 

ACV is sure a good product to use. I am sold on the stuff. 

As far as the garlic...if you get the capsules, just have the pigeon ready and run the gel cap under water to lubricate it and pop it down its throat. 

If you are still apprehensive about performing this task, break open the capsule and sprinkle over his seed and on an empty tummy, to insure he eats the seed and the garlic over it.

I would take the seed out now, since it is late anyway, and if you can make a health store run mid morning, introduce the garlic and fresh seeds. I am certain he will consume it.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Thank you for the info. i have ACV il use that.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

When we rescued Barbie our feral blue bar, she had a head wound, and I administered a higher concentrate of the raw ACV . The small rock was removed, and we put neosporin on the wound for about 5 days. The ACV was a tremendous help to her overall recovery.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> are the capsules small enough that he wont choke on them?


Please check your PM's


The Now brand caps are small soft gells and are and easy for swallowing. Just grease the capsule down with a little olive oil. Gently open beak and put capsule over and behind tongue. Then gently push to the back of the throat and allow the bird to swallow. You can then rub in downward motion under the beak.

It gets easy to do after a while.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> SO i should go to traders joe and:
> 
> Buy the NOW brand garlic capsule and give him one everyday?
> *Yep, one a day, it is not a drug has no side effects*
> ...


*silver is a potent anti-infective, it just may help with seconday infections*

Echinacea will also be a positive thing for the bird as it needs an arsonal of help. 

These products are designed to help get the birds immune system in gear and each will help do a different thing, they definitely will help until you can get him to an avian vet.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Can someone help me find an avian vet? I live in ceres california.
There is one in modesto but they dont answer their phone.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Good morning Flying_Pidgy~

Many vet clinics do close at 1pm on Saturday and most facilities are closed on Sunday.

This will have to be a Monday project to do.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Here is a link to possibly help with finding an avian vet. How far is the one in Modesto from you?

http://www.aav.org/vet-lookup/


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Modesto is not far at all but when i call them all they sai is

" .. please leave a messge after the beep"

i called alot of other vets but they dont accept birds. They told me to call the stanislaus wildlife center. They open tomorrow.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Should i get this item?

Lifesaver Capsules (Pg. 38) 
To control and cure the major illnesses of pigeons. Treats upper respiratory problems: sneezing, rattles, wet nose. Use when they look ill, go light or fluff up. One in the morning, 1 in the evening for 5-7 days 

http://www.aitsafe.com/cf/add.cfm?u...n=www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/vitaking


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Also, What does rattling mean?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Modesto Ca is not too far from you. I am sure you can leave a message and they will get back to you so you can bring your pigeon in.

I have noticed that many times a bird issue seems to come up on a weekend when many places are closed.Hang in there.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Also, What does rattling mean?


His lungs are most likely not fully clear.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

How much acv should i put in their water?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

My friend said he might have canker.is that a possibility?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Can someone help me find an avian vet? I live in ceres california.
> There is one in modesto but they dont answer their phone.



Check these sites:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contact.htm#ca


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> How much acv should i put in their water?



1/8 to 1/4 th teaspoon per two cups of water.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> My friend said he might have canker.is that a possibility?



That may be the secondary infection I mentioned earlier, and therefore you can help crowd out any bad bacteria with probiotics (good bacteria) , and the ACV will provide a favorable environment for good gut bacteria to flourish


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Should i give it a pill my friend gave? He said its for colds and its an anti biotic.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> 1/8 to 1/4 th teaspoon per two cups of water.


How big would the cup be?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> How big would the cup be?


The actual dose of the organic apple cider vinegar is one to two tablespoons to a gallon of water, I just brought it down to smaller size for individual treatment.


4 cups = a quart.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Should i give it a pill my friend gave? He said its for colds and its an anti biotic.


Check your PM's


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

The guy said i should give it to him


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> The guy said i should give it to him



What is in it? What is the name of the product?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

They said its ampecilin antibiotic


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> They said its ampecilin antibiotic



I would not use it myself, as I use the natural antibiotics like garlic, Reishi and Neem oil. They are very beneficial.

If it is not the drug of choice, or the wrong quantity, you might be doing more harm then good.

Drugs used for respiratory infections would be ones like Aureomycin concentrate with Tylan, or one of the many in Jedds catalog or other pigeon suppliers catalogs. If your friend has used it for respiratory infections for his birds and it has helped, then use it, but you must use the correct amount for the length of time listed on the label. One pill isn't going to do it, and you don't actually know which respiratory disease the bird has, it is a gamble.

If this is a drug for colds, then it is not the correct drug of choice for respiratory infections. Any cold should first be treated with natural products to allow the bird to use its own immune system to fight off the cold, as well as help it reach optimum health.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ampicillin will not help if it is canker. You need metronidazol(Flagyl) or Spartix.
Is the ampicillin pill your friend gave you specifically for birds? What strength is it?
Too large of a dose can kill a bird.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

He told me to cut the pill into 8 peices. So i did and i gave him one peice. As i was opening his mouth i did notice he had some yellow things on the side of his throat. He eats fine and i put him in the sun for an hour and ehs scratching himself. He also pecks at you had if you take it near him.

Should i buy this item?

Turbosole - Currently the world-wide veterinary medicine of choice for treatment of canker in pigeons. This product has a wide safety margin, and is safe to use during racing, breeding, or molting. Complete directions included. Developed by Dr. Colin Walker, "The Flying Vet." (Australian Pigeon Company)

200 grams
$34.95
Item #3023
SW 2.00 lbs
Picture at http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catimages/APC-Turbosole.jpg
Url to find info is http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html


*Do u guys have any suggestions on what i should buy for him?*


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sounds like he has canker. 
Yes, buy a canker medicine, the Ampicillin will not cure canker.


Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Which one do u recomend?


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Will this work?

Pegosan Tablets – For individual treatment of Canker (Trichomoniasis), Coccidiosis, and infections of the crop mucous membrane. (Pego -- Germany)

Picture
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catimages/Pego-Pegosan-Tablets.jpg 


Canker products
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Get the tablets, I prefer them as they are better with dosing. With the powder you don't really know how much he will drink.
Another thing, from experience I know it takes at least five days for the medicine to get to you, so try to overnight them. You don't have that much time. Canker can spread pretty quickly and it causes damage to the tissues which can be fatal.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Do u think its possible for the bird to survive on its own if it recieves food and water with ACV? I will do the best i can to get the tablets.


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

Since you said it can be fatal Reti, does anyone know how long a pigeon will have to live after the yellow spots appear? Like how much time it will have to order the medicine and stuff.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

The next day air will come out to $51.00 US money. It is too much at this time. I have no idea what to do anymore.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sure this is all so overwhelming for you and I know you are trying to do what is best for your bird.

You should ask for someone who is knowledgable about pigeons for some help and direction now. Perhaps they can help you to get the bird to an avian vet.

We can only tell you what we ourselves do for our birds, sometimes you can get alot of different answers and that can be confusing. 

One thing is for sure, you need to keep the bird fed and watered and keep it warm and isolated from the others. If you have tried any of the remedies recommended (from the health food store) that will help until you can get the bird to a professional. The canker/respiratory meds are important, but you shouldn't have to spend so much for shipping.

Did you check with Jedds pigeon supplies?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

A vet in your area?
Well, it is hard to tell how long he can hang in, it depends on how far the canker is progressed, which is hard to tell even if you look in his mouth because it can be way far down.

It is very unlikely he can make it without the medicine.
Maybe a pigeon fancier in your area can give you some canker medicine?

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

There are no vets in my areas taht do accept pgieons. There are two fanciers in my area and one of them is in canada and the other is out of town but he gave my uncle the pill that he gave me. He said when his bird gets sick he uses that and it treats them for alot of diseases. Other than that i have no other help.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Do you have a feed store in your area or pet supply they will usually carry something to treat canker. Where abouts in CA. do you live?

Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Yes there is one i believe is called pet barn and petco. We live in Ceres, california area code 95307. I dont really think they would ahve something for canker, because they don't carry like pigeon supplies.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Do you have a place near by where you can buy chicks, or ducks. Or a place that sells hay for horses. How about a place that sells fish supplies?

Feather


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

PLease pray for him i love him so much ! He will stay with me forever . Hes so special to me ever since he was a baby and my sweet brother rescued pidgy from a big fat ugly cat . Does anyone know if he might make it through the night based on all the information on these 5 pages? does anyone have any idea if he can make it ill tomorrow so we can take him to a vet? PLEASE once again pray for this little guy. I dont know what i will do if he dies.


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Yes there is one i believe is called pet barn and petco. We live in Ceres, california area code 95307. I dont really think they would ahve something for canker, because they don't carry like pigeon supplies.



A place where they sell chicks or ducks wow i really dont think so. there is a place where they sell like um parrots though. Do you think they might have canker medicine? No where that sells hay for horses. The store has like those really tiny birds im so sorry i can remember the tiny birds kind. (im just a mess since i found out he was sick.)


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Our prayers are with you and your darling bird.
Heshould make it through the night, he doesn't sound as bad.
As for the garlic, here is what you can do, open the capsule and dissolve the content in water and syringe it down. Doesn't have to be all at once, just little at a time.

Another thing. Do you have a fish/aquarium store near you? They should have Fishzole and it works for canker.
If you can call some stores, see if they have it. Even pet stores might have it.

Reti


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank You Reti! I was starting to get really nervious.

Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

What is fishzole?


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

When my birds have canker that is what the guy at the feed store sells me for my birds. It also has another name M-E-T something. Maybe Reti knows how to spell it correctly. It works!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It is Metronidazole, treats canker. It is called fishzole because it is for fish and it comes in powder you put in the tank to treat them.
It is the same medicine used for treating canker in birds.
Try calling around, see if you find it.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

None of them are answering their phones. I gues i have to wait til tomorrow to see if theres any luck


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

I wish all of this could just be ok the next time i wake up. I am starting to get sick from all of this worrying\ lack of sleep\ loss of appetite\searching and everythign else. at this rate i might be the one thats guna die. =\


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Well good luck with your bird. Canker is not hard to treat if you catch it in time. Both the feed store and the last vet that I went to gave me Metronidazole for my bird with canker. Although the vet told me it was not the drug of choice and she does not treat that many pigeons, it worked very well. It did the job.

Let me just say that it comes in tablet form as well. What ever form you get it in, please come back to this forum and have someone here help you with the dosage. You two are very sweet and caring. Thank you Reti for being here to help them.

Feather


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks Feather! Your really kind too and thank you everyone for helping us all day we will keep you updated and all i can say is pray for the best for our young little lad. (he doesnt seem so little when hes cooing though )


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I went over your area with Google Earth. You have a beautiful area. It looks like alot of agriculture. I was really surprized there were no feed stores. There are some in the surrounding areas. 

Here is one in Modesto:
Jesse's Pet and Feed Store
111 Amador, Mosesto CA.
209-538-9098

This is probably the Parrot place that you were talking about.

Exotic Birds and Pets 
2531 E. Witmore Ave.
Ceres, CA
209-531-2060

The Seed Factory
4319 Jessup Rd.
Ceres, CA
209-634-8522


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*re weak pigeon voice*

Earlier this year our rescued and hand-raised male *Wieteke* went through _PMV_ (crashing into things while flying in house), _coccidiosis_ (confirmed by fecal exam at vet), and suspected air sac mites (loud wheezing/"honking" upon exertion). All three problems either occurred simultaneously or tightly overlapped. 

I don't know which was the primary disease or instigator, and which, if any, were simply taking advantage of his weakened condition to make its appearance (can't recall the proper term). -- (_opportunistic_) --

At the time he was raising a pair of chicks and having to deal with his feral mate *Mamieke* flirting with a dominant male across the street. He had the best of food. He had not had a PMV shot because we had raised him to hopefully be an independent street pigeon (after a short rehabilitation from paratyphoid as a chick found at 18 days of age). He would dash out at daybreak, and pop in for a snack or meal once or twice during the day. He preferred sleeping indoors. I did not want to cage him when he was so young in order to make an appointment with the vet, whom I did not think would give a PMV shot.

He is now a year old, and molting. He is living outdoors (due to a forced eviction by the building owner -- another story for another time). He is healthy and supposedly, hopefully, thriving. He and his mate would like to come back inside and reclaim their nesting site. His voice seems a bit weaker, and so does the voice of the dominant male *Graybar* who has a nest across the street. Feather-growing and molting is, as I have read, an energy-consuming process. Perhaps that, and the shortening days of the season, explain the weaker voices.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Locating canker meds*

Flying Pidgy

If any more-experienced forum member here contradicts anything I say below, please listen to them.
Reti and other moderators are especially helpful in getting on the right track. 

Sitting here in Cologne, Germany, I decided to see what I could find in California using your Zip Code 95307, and Ceres, CA and Modesto CA. I did some zig-zagging around on various websites after using Google Earth.

If you look below, there are various brand name and generic products for treating canker (in animals. *Flagyl* also used in snakes and turtles!). 

I have added *bold* and _*italics*_ to some names.

I think you can find a non-prescription bottle of *Metronidazole * 
(NOT: metronidizole, which is a prednisolone) 
at a pet supply or animal health supply place.

Some places I found in Google Earth afteer keying in "CA 95307" and "vet supply." 
Maybe help for your pigeon is only a phone call away.
If you canot find a store where to buy metrondazole, I would suggest that you call some of the following local places. 
Tell them your age (18), and that you would appreciate any advice they could give you on how to find a medicine to treat canker or trichomoniasis (used also in dogs, cats, fish, horses). 
People often love to give advice, especially when they feel comfortable that that is all you want from them. After giving advice they may decide to proceed with other forms of assistance. 

University of California-Cooperative Extension
3800 Cornucopia Way
Modesto, CA 95358
(209) 525-3671
berkeley.edu... supervisor. Administers prescribed treatments and reports problems requiring veterinary attention to supervisor. 


Ag Curriculum Resources -C
... Resources ~C. California Poultry Industry Federation 3117-A McHenry Avenue Modesto,
CA 95350 Phone: (209) 576-6355 Web Site: www.cpif.org. 
cf3.csufresno.edu/AgCurriculumProject/resourses-c.htm*-


Calif Poultry Industry Federation
3117A McHenry Ave
Modesto, CA 95350
(209) 576-6355
poultryandeggnews.com... IN THIS ISSUE... Poultry Times New Products Winter 2006 Iowa Veterinary Supply divisions become IVESCO LLC Calendar.

A L Gilbert Co
499 S 1st St
Turlock, CA 95380
(209) 634-2452
cahorse.com... NORCO 951-735-4070 ALL ANIMAL WHOLESALE FEED & SUPPLIES NORTHRIDGE 818-362-9112 ALL CREATURES MOBILE VETERINARY SERVICE RIVERSIDE ... 

ASSOCIATED FEED (horses)
TURLOCK, CA 95381	800-540-FEED
www.associatedfeed.com

Pet Smart, 
2100 McHenry Ave
Modesto, CA 95350
(209) 574-0441

LIGHTACRES / SUE LIGHTNER
5318 COFFEE RD
MODESTO, CA 95357	
209-578-0599
www.lightacres.com
Hunter/Jumper Training Stables; Lay-ups; Rehabilition Centers (horses)

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http://www.pigeoncenter.org/health_tips2.htm
Canker- Also known as Trichomoniasis. This disease affects mostly young birds in the nest or just after weaning. Old birds also carry this disease and pass it on to the young via feeding. In young birds canker can be more visible and affects the throat, crop, or navel area. The best way to spot canker in youngsters is to inspect their throats and look for a yellow, cheesy like growth in the back part of the throat or in some more serious cases the entire inside lining of the mouth. This is more than likely canker. If it is covering the entire throat the bird will appear ill and a weight loss should be very noticeable. Keep in mind that birds can have canker and appear healthy. Old birds should be treated prior to racing or breeding and intermittent treatments given every two or three weeks during the race season or in between rounds while the birds are sitting on eggs of the second or third round. It is always a good idea to alternate drugs to keep from creating resistance. A few of the drugs used for treating canker can be hard on breeders and race birds so do a bit of research to use the drug that best fits your situation at the time. Listed are just a few drugs used to treat canker in pigeons.

*Ronidazole*, Metronidizole (MIS-SPELLED!!!! Should be *MetronidAzole* -- Larry), *Emtryl* and *Spartrix*

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http://www.dogcatetc.com/001tlzol-100.html 
*Fish Zole, 250 mg Metronidazole, 100 Tablets, non-Prescription, $14.92 *

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http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=31&A=532&S=1 
BRAND NAME: FLAGYL ?Available in*250mg & 500mg*tablets
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http://www.[B]metronidazole[/B].com/ 

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http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/flagyl_askdrharris.htm 

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From:
http://www.theveterinarian.com.au/clinicalreviewcve/article300.asp

*Trichomoniasis*

Trichomonas gallinae is a common protozoan infection of budgerigars, doves, raptors, turkeys, chickens and other birds and is characterised by raised caseous lesions in the oral cavity, pharynx and crop and distal oesophagus. In budgerigars and doves there may also be a focal necrotic hepatitis and or other systemic lesions.** ?In pigeons and doves the disease is called 'canker' and these birds are the carriers of the organism and up to 50-60 per cent of pigeons and wild doves may shed asymptomatically. The organism is transmitted from asymptomatic parent birds when they regurgitate crop milk for the squabs.?Adult pigeons (and other species) are at risk from stagnant surface water contaminated by pigeons. Raptors can develop the disease after eating infected doves or pigeons.* ?Affected birds are dysphagic due to large caseous lesions in the oral cavity or oesophagus, which obstruct the lumen. Severely affected birds lose condition. Young budgerigars regurgitate ingested seed in the initial phases and vomit as the condition progresses.* ?Diagnosis of trichomoniasis is easy by demonstration of large numbers of motile flagellate protozoan (5 x 10µm) in wet specimens from live birds. The organism rotates and spins and progresses forwards by pulsations and flicks of the anterior flagella. ?Organisms may not be motile if the bird has been dead for some time (even when you warm the slide). However, they are not as sensitive as spironucleus. Vigorous trichomonads gradually lose motility over four to six hours if the smear is left on the bench at room temperature. ?T gallinae can be readily cultured in selective medium. This is the most sensitive method of detecting the organism. Swabs of blood, liver and other tissues can be cultured from post mortem samples. Differentials in pigeons include pox, candidiasis, pigeon herpesvirus infection and capillariasis.?Trichomoniasis in individual pet birds is easily treated with *carnidazole* (*Spartrix* 10mg tablets) at a dose rate of 20-30mg/kg (single dose). The drug is safe because it has a high therapeutic margin. Toxicity has not been reported. Adult pigeons are routinely treated with one tablet per bird and squabs with 5mg. Give 2.5mg per budgerigar by crushing the tablet in a small amount of water. ?*Ronidazole* is a similar drug to *carnidazole* but has better water solubility. Dose rate 6-10mg/kg, orally SID for 6-10 days. *Metronidazole* (*Flagyl S* suspension 40mg/ml) is also effective and can be given at a dose of 25-50mg/kg orally for five days or 100mg/L drinking water.* ?*Emtryl* (Dimetridazole 100 per cent) was once commonly used at 3g/5L drinking water for seven days (lorikeets and finches 1.5g/L, finches 100 mg/L) but toxicity is common as this drug has a low therapeutic index. It should not be used on hot days, particularly if parents are feeding young. The drugs listed above are much safer and have largely replaced *Emtryl*.?Trichomonas infection can be prevented and controlled by eliminating known infected birds and all suspect carriers, avoiding overcrowding, revision of water and feed container hygiene and avoiding contact with pigeons and doves.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Thank u Larry for all the information. It takes someone from Germany to show us around here in CA.  I was very surprised that there wasn't many feed stores in their area. It looks beautiful there, like my first memories of this area. 

Feather


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Feed stores near CERES, CA ZIP 95307:*

Feed stores near Ceres, CA, 95307 (from Google Earth):

Ceres CA is about 8-9 miles from Turlock CA and 5-7 miles from Modesto CA.

Berry Seed & Feed Co, 4431 Jessup Road, Keyes CA 95328, (209) 634-9331.

North Valley feed, Keys Rd & Jessup, Turlock CA 95380, (209) 634-0160. 

J S West Bargain Annex, 721 8th St, Modesto CA 95354, (209) 527-1800. 

West J S & Co, 501 9t St, Modesto CA 95354, (209) 577-3221. 

Modesto Milling, 142 Linley Ave, Empire CA 95319, (209) 577-9167. 

Hatch Milling Co, 9400 W Main St, Turlock CA 95380. (209) 632-2425. 

Crossroads Feed & Ranch Supply, 118 Albers Rd, Modesto CA 95357. (209) 524-7643. 

Mountain View Feed & Seed Co, 9942 Crows Landing Rd, Crows Landing, CA 95313. (209) 537-5858. 

Turlock Feed & Livestock Supply, 290 S 1st St, Turlock CA 95380. (209) 669-0133.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I was looking at the map and wondering how far it would be from Ceres in miles. I also wondered about the transportation aspect. I guess there is plenty of feed stores in surrounding areas.

Thanks Larry, I hope that they post while you are still online.

Feather


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Generic Metranidazole, non-prescription, for canker/trichomoniasis*

Check a local pharmacy for humans for availability of non-prescription *Metranidazole* (generic name for brand name *Flagyl*).


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, it's very much a prescription drug here owing to the fact that the Nitroimidazoles are mildly carcinogenic. Don't worry about that in this case, though.

Pidgey


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

After all this bad news... let me say something good I was able to find a bird store and They had just two boxes of medicine left!!! and i got one for about 30 something dollars. The name of the medicine is Spartrix. And i belive after searching the name no the internet that it is this brand.


http://www.westernsporting.com/Merc...ode=1111&Product_Code=PM1030&Category_Code=SP

On that site it says The active ingrediant in Spartrix is carnidazole which is a trichomonacidal drug and a single dose is fully effective against the disease. Dose: 1 tablet per pigeon. 50 tablets per package. Preferably, all the pigeons in the loft should be treated at the same time, before feeding. Water containers should be removed from the loft during treatment and returned, thoroughly cleaned, two hours later. The treatment can be repeated every time there is a risk of re-infestation, i.e. at the start of the breeding season, during the first half of the nesting period, etc. No known contraindications.

Could someone please explain the dosage and instructions more? I get the idea i just want to be sure.
Basically i just give him 1 tablet ?
Dont give him food and water for two hours?

--
Yesterday i did give him 1\8 of the ampicillin tablet that my friend gave me and i think it worked fairly well until i got the medicine which i am using now. And i looked in his throat and the yellow spots have either gone away or gotten really small. I do see some white spots however ( which is ok right? beacuse i read something that said they dont harm him?)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's the idea, yes. That's one drug of the several in the Nitroimidazole family, of which Metronidazole is the most commonly mentioned. The interesting part of it is the difference between preventative use and actually curing the clinical disease in a bird. You may have to give him a few of them to do that. So, give him the first one and obey the instructions for the water for now and then provide us with whatever information there is on the box and we'll try to figure out a continuing dosing regimen to help clear the disease. The folks who typically use Spartrix may be very helpful on that as I've never actually used that one.

Pidgey


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Thank you very much. When my parents come home il ask them to bring the box with them and i will copy what it says. (To everyoneThank you so much for all of your help and i was quite impressed you guys found good stores around me area. Thank you for taking so much time out of your schedules and helping me and pidgy. I know it must have tired you guys out alot! Il keep updating and hopefully this whole situation will be a success.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Looks like it's 10 milligrams Carnidazole per tablet:

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=64&SubCategoryID=537&ProductID=2378

The old, typical dose for Metronidazole was 10 to 30 milligrams per kilogram of bird, twice a day. Some formularies also show a 20 to 50 milligram dose per kilogram of bird, once a day or even more. The package that you've got was designed for actual homers and they typically weigh more than regular pigeons, often in the half-kilogram class.

Do you have any idea what your bird weighs in any unit (pounds, grams, that sort of thing)?

Pidgey


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

I dont know his weight or scale either.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, then we'll shoot for the middle of the road. Is he essentially a feral pigeon, roller, homer or what?

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great news. I am glad you have the Spartrix.
I did use it several times on new birds. 
The one tablet is for prevention, for more advanced canker I use it at least three days. Most of the times I had the side efect of vomiting when used more then a couple of days.
I still would give him one more tablet tomorrow and see how it goes, then maybe you can continue with half a tablet. I do use half a tablet for smaller pigeons.

Reti


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

*Hes ok !!*

  He's ok everyone hes ok!! well so far the dots have turned white (is that good) and gotten smaller and he looks pretty healthy so far i guess we should treat him maybe 1 tablet for 1 or 2 more days(thanks reti). You said your birds usually get the side effects of vommiting? Is that dangerous can he choke on it? Is there anything we can do to prevent that? I have been worried for pidgy all day in school but when i finally got home i was told he got special canker medicine (spartrix) and was feeling more healthy. We are keeping up the acv, and i think hes got a pretty good chance of surving i want to thank each and everyone of you staying up so late and helping us. YOu have found more descriptions than we could probably ever do!  . YOu helped us and we will hopefully be adding good news to this thread. You all have gone through the steps and new helpers have added on. God bless you all and each and everyone of you will stay in my heart forever.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I am so glad to read that things are looking better. You have the best help on this forum (in relation to medication doses and rehabilitating ill pigeons) in your corner right now. These are the people that I turn to when my babies are sick. You two are very caring of your bird, and last night I know what you were going through. You are in good hands!

Best Wishes,
Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok i have the instructions i says:

For Vetrenary use
Oral trichomonacidal drug for pigeons

Composition and properties:
Spartix is an origional Janssen preparation. Its active ingrediant is carnidazole (r 25831) ( I- methyl[N-2-( 2-mehtyl-5nitro-1-imidazolyl) - ethyl]-2-thiocarbamas). It is a trichomonacidal drug and a single oral dose is fully effecive against Trichomonas columbae.

Indication:
Trichomoniasis in pigeons.

Dosage:
1 tablet per pigeon

Treatment Regimen
Preferably all the pigeons in the loft should be treated at the same time, before feeding. At the time of treatment, no waterbowls should be left in the pigeon house. They can be put back, throughly cleaned, only two hours after feeding. The treatment can be repeated everytime there is a risk of reinfestation, i.e. at the start of the breeding season, during the first half of nesting period, after purchase , after "getting lost" etc.

Contraindictions:
None known

Dispensing:
Blister pack with 50 tablets , each tablet contraining 10 Mg of active compound.

The shelf life of this preparation is limited: see expiry date on the package.

_I checked and it said 02 2010_

Formula
Carnidazolum ( o- Methyl [N-2-( 2-methyl-5nitro-1- imidazolyl)- ethyl] -2- thiocarbamas) 10 mg, lactose., cellulos,microcristallin., silicii dioxidum colloidale, natri. laurilsulfas, magnesi. stearas, q.s. pro tabl. compress. un.



So i just give him 1 dose right?
Then do i feed him afterwards or wait 2 hours? i dont understand that part.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> Then do i feed him afterwards or wait 2 hours? i dont understand that part.


You want to wait the two hours .. let the drug work in an empty crop first. 

Terry


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok thanks thats what i did today. And i just give one pill for the whole thing right? I dont want to over dose it by giving him another the next day,


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Flying Pidgy,

I do not know anything about doses, but read Reti's post #99.

Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Yeah i hope reti signs on soon. I just want to be sure before take any actions. I really dont want him to vomit either.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

She may not sign on until tomorrow. But you have given him todays meds, so wait until tomorrow, Reti will answer when she signs on. They will take care of you.

Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Yep, Thanks feather for the support.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

No, if you've got a serious canker problem then you want to go for at least three doses.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> No, if you've got a serious canker problem then you want to go for at least three doses.
> 
> Terry



I agree with Terry. Three doses should do the trick.
As for the vomiting, it is not serious usually. He should be fine.
And not all birds vomit from it. I just mentioned it because I had a few birds with this side effect, but also some that didn't. I depends how well they tolerate it.
I am really happy he feels better.
You've done a great job.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok i will give him a tablet today also i guess. But it seems he is doing very well so i dont really know . but he still honks when he breaths so i gues its a good try.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You will need to wipe out the canker completely, that is why we suggest to give it three days.
If only a few of the trichomonads remain in his body he will develop it again and you risk to develop resistance to the medicine also.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

ok so i should give him a tablet today aswell correct?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yes, I send you a private message.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Good news so far! Today before i even gave him some medicine he decided that he wants to fly! he flew around for liek 35 seconds or 45 secodns and came back. And i looked in his throat and mostly everything is cleared up. I gave him Half a tablet instaed of the full tablet, Tomorrow il give him another half then most likely stop if everything is going good.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is fantastic news. I am so glad he is back to his old self.
Well done.
Does he know how much loved he is?

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Im pretty sure he does =) I saved him from a cat two times... ( one i had to actualy punch the cat to get it away!!! it just wouldnt go! but ididnt hit it tooo hard jsut enough so he wont come back) and he came close to an 18 wheeler top once when he was learning to fly. ( which i taught him). Hes been through alot but God really does love him. He is actualy the left bird on my avatar.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He is a pretty bird and so lucky.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Oh yeah i forgot to say that his voice is hearable now. =) altile... but much better than the day before the meds.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Flying Pidgy and birds*

Flying Pidgy,

It is great that your pigeon is doing better. It seems you and your brother have at least two birds. Could you tell us their names? Is the one we were discussing called "Flying Pidgy"?

Larry


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi! I stopped in too. Had to see how you three are getting along. It looks as though things have made a turn around. I am so relieved. Keep us posted on the patient, as I will be checking in.

Feather


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

I didnt give him any medicine today because hes really doing great. I gave him 1 tablet first day and half a tablet second day. Hes also getting his voice back somewhat.and hes really energentic. So far so good!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad he is doing so well.

Make sure to follow thru with dosage instructions.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

F. Pidgy,

Many times canker spreads where it is not visable to us. I would defenately follow Reti's instructions to make sure that it is all gone and not building up a resistance to the drug.

Give the little bird a hug, we were all worried.

Feather


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Please follow Feather's advice and keep with the program, I lost a young Starling a couple of months ago because I stopped the dosage too soon when it was being treated for a cat bite.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Two days withought treatment so far hes doing good so far his voice is coming back alitle more than yesterday.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Flying Pidgey

I am a little confused at what is going on. You asked for advice because you were so worried about your pigeon. Very competent people have told you that you need to give this pigeon 3 of the pills to make sure all the canker is gone, but you have only given it 1 1/2 pill and just ignore repeated encouragement to finish the medicine.

Canker can be in areas you can't see and while the pigeon may temporarily be acting OK you can't be sure.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Bumping up in hopes that these young people will see this and follow through before it is too late.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you Maggie and Victor for bringing this thread up again.

IMO, this bird needs to start at day one again with the Spartrix and complete the entire three days .. part of the treatment may not have been enough, and it's now been too long to give just half a treatment .. also IMO.

For all of us who have birds in our care .. regardless of whether they are pets, show birds, racing birds .. no matter. If you aren't handling each and every one of your birds at least every couple of days, you might be missing a problem that could cost the life of a bird or perhaps even all your birds. You can't always tell by looking from afar if everything is OK .. sometimes only picking the bird up, noting the weight and feather condition, and having a good old look in the mouth is the only way to know something is amiss. Poop watching is also important, but you have no way of knowing which bird or bird(s) may have left a suspicious poop .. sooooo .. you need to do a bit more. I mention this because I'm sure we are all busy and sometimes ASSUME that all is well when it isn't.

Terry


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Hes almost fully recovered i think. His voice is begging to get stronger and louder. His poops are in good shape and hes energetic. His feathers are more smoother also instead of being messed up when he was sick.


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