# What kind of bird is this?



## maryd (Nov 15, 2005)

I found a baby bird with its beep broken, tongue injured and a swollen leg. Is this a baby duck, goose? Please help! Thank you! I have pictures but do not know how to post them-Any help?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeons.com

You can upload a picture when you reply just scroll down where it says manage attachments , click on that and browse in your picture file and upload the picture to our site. Make sure to meet size requirements.

You can also load the pictures to a webshots file and displaythe address of the picture when you post.

Also, where are you located? We maybe able to get help for you either directly or indirectly thru our members. We have an expert here who rehabs ducks as well as pigeons.


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## maryd (Nov 15, 2005)

*Still No picture*

I have Uploaded the picture but nothing happens. Do I have any options? Thank you.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you can keep trying but in the interim, email it to one of us and we can post it.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, folks,

The question of the day is what kind of bird is this? Here's a link to a picture gallery:

http://community.webshots.com/album/506425724gUYKkB

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Pidgey, 

It's an american coot

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/programs/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/American_Coot.html


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Thanks, Brad,

Could you email maryd and tell her that just in case she can't find this thread anymore?

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Could you email maryd and tell her that just in case she can't find this thread anymore?
> 
> Pidgey


Done.

*********************************************************

Mary if you don't get my email and read this, please let us know where you are located so we can help you find a licensed rehabilitator. It's illegal for you to keep this bird and it really looks to be in dire need of some professional assistance.


Thank you,


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ditto to Brad's comments/suggestions. American Coots can be difficult birds to rehab to start with, and this one has an extreme injury that needs to be addressed.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi maryd, 


Ohhhhhh...the poor thing...

Yes, this is a serious injury...

Please, make haste to get this Bird to some experienced rehabber or very dedicated Avian Vet. 

Thank you for rescueing them!

Coots are quite delightful Birds and this one certainly had some sort of aweful mishap.

For this injury to have any chance to heal properly, it will need the attentions of someone very able and patient with considerable experience. To say nothing of the discomfort and inability to eat in the meantime...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

I got a reply from this person in my email. Here is her response:

*"I live in Las Vegas, NV - my house is about 2 miles from the mountains. I have NO problem taking him to a specialized vet! Any advice?"*

Does anyone know where she can take this bird? Terry, Phil? If you know where she can bring the coot, please email her.


Thanks,


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Bumping up for visibility.

Anyone have any ideas on a rehabber in the Las Vegas area for Mary and this coot? I can't imagine the bird is doing very well if it's still alive. I just emailed Mary again in hopes that the bird is still alive and that we're trying to find her a place to take it.


Thanks,


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I went to the Avian vet look up and found:

Cheyenne West Animal Hospital
Christine Kolmstetter
8630 West Cheyenne Ave.
Las Vegas, N. 89129

702-395-1800

Also, under our own resources was:

Gilcrease Bird Sanctuary
No phone or address listed.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Treesa, 

I hope this person has been reading and getting the emails because this bird doesn't look good. I didn't notice the beak when I first looked at the pictures but the bottom mandible looks to be nearly broken off. I hate to think negatively but I don't see this bird being able to be released back into the wild even if it does survive. That kind of injury is a major handicap to a wild bird


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Brad, I agree that this bird needs help badly.

BTW, love your new avatar. The pigeon is beautiful and the teenager is quite handsome too. 

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maryd,


I would be glad to see what I can do, and get done for the Coot...if you would bring him to me.

I am downtown...

388 - 2085

Tressa, all...

Christine Kolmstetter will only euthenise this or anyother Bird that is not a hi-dollar pay for her...she will not admit even a "pet" Pigeon on her premisis for any amount of pay.

Gilcrease does not do any real rehabbing or care for injured Birds. Nice people, but they have no time for any Birds that are not self sufficient.

Anyway, call me...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Phil, I just hope it's not too late for this bird

Still waiting to hear back from Mary. I did suggest to her to come here and read the posts as well because I'm not around all day if/when she replied to me through email.

Could you email her Phil?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 

Yes, I did...I clicked on her name and the scroll-down menu appeared from which I elected the "e-mail" option, so, I sent a direct one to her regular e-mail...

She may have a day-job or something...so...

I will be here most of the time today, but i do have some errands I must do.

Oooooo, poor little Coot...

That Beak injury looks so painful, and I do not like how time has been passing...

Well, I did get some more Canned Sardines yesterday...

And or, what DO Coots eat, do you know?

I would expect them to eat tender aquatic vegetations, and little Frogs, Fish, Bugs and so on, and likely anything else...Lol...

But I will do some 'googles' later and find out more...

Anything you may know about them, please feel free to tell me...

I know they have strong legs!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

Thanks again for replying to her. I did hear back from her and was just waiting for your response. 

She has things under control at her place and I informed her that you would likely be emailing her soon. She said that she's done some rehabbing work before with doves, pigeons and grackles, and has the bird stabolized. She's been feeding it formula and it's drinking fine.

Perhaps it would be best if you two could talk to each other on the phone and discuss the options and weigh out the pros and cons of things. Hopefully she will be willing to do this so that you can both come up with a good solution to this "problem". I don't think this bird can be released back into the wild due to it's severe beak injury but perhaps it can be integrated into some sort of wild bird sanctuary, if it's injuries are deamed too severe. 

Thanks again PHIL!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 


I would think that this Mandible Beak must be 'set' to it's proper placement and for it to be encouraged to grow/heal back into it's normal position for the Bird to have any future at all. If this break of the jawbone there is not too old, I imagine this is still possible to hope for.

The Bird should have this proceedure done majorly a.s.a.p., so, I may only hope that maryd understands this and does not delay.

It should have been done immediately upon the the first oportunity from the Bird's initial arrival.

Far as I know, upper Beaks of broken off at the root are very very hard to have mend, but the lower one has some chance if dealt with correctly and set in some cast or restraint to heal and knit...and...this is no easy matter..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Maryd...!


If you can meet me at my studio at 2:30 today, I have a 2:45 appointment with my good-guy Avian Vet No. "1" and I can take the Coot to him to see about getting that lower mandible 'set' and to begin whatever regimen of convelscence the Vet and I come up with.

I will be gone from 12:30 untill 2:30 and I do not have a Cell phone.

e-mail me or call and leave a message if you can make the "2:30" rondevous.

I will send you my address in your regular e-mail along with a copy of this message.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

I really have no idea about broken beaks and what is best. I have no idea if they will grow back, can be set and/or repaired; upper or lower mandibles You dealt with this with your little "crow baby". However, these two species are vastly different in so many ways in regards to eating, and reliances on beaks.

Still, try to establish a contact with her if you could please and perhaps the two of you can brainstorm a solution and something in the best interest of this bird. 

I wish I could help more, but I'm a long ways away, not in the USA and I don't have the specific knowledge of broken beaks and what can be done for them.

Thank you Phil for your ever present support and willingness to help!

I know, that between you and MARYD, that you'll be able to figure something out in this birds' best interest.

Keep me(us) posted with your communications, findings and insights please


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad,


Sheeeeeeesh, I have been on the edge of my seat all this time! Waiting anxiously till the last possible moment before leaving for the Vets for my 2:30 appointment which got me there at five after three, and...staying close to the 'phone and checking for the thousandth time the answering machine lights since, and... no e-mail, no call, no show, no nothing from 'maryd'...and it is 9:00 p.m. now.

Oh well..

Sad...

Anyway, by 'grow back' I mean the possibly broken bones of the mandible may be able to knit so the lower Beak/Mandible is not lost. Or, it may be a severe dislocation with tearing of tissues and no broken bones per-se for all I know...

Depending on where the break-tearing is, with respect to the Jaw and the Beak sheathing of the Mandible, it might turn out pretty allright if...IF... it is delt with sometime while we are all still young, before the tissues all die from no circulation getting to them.

I had THE Vet who could do this with some kind of serious put his whi=ole heart into it of try, all lined up today and now there is not going to be much recourse till Monday, m-a-y-b-e, if he is even going to be there Monday...

Anyway...


Feeling depressed now with the no call, no e-mail, no show, no nothing.

Poor little Coot...


I also e-mailed via the forum menu option, e-mailed 'maryd' with the Vet's contact info, address, phone number and where cross street wise it is, and how to get there, as well as directions to my place downtown.

I do not understand this person having nothing whatever to say or communicate or reply with....so...

I guess they just had other things to do today.

What a shame...

 


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

Sorry that you didn't hear back from MaryD and sacrificed your own time. I received an email from her yesterday saying that she was going to take the bird to the West Cheyenne facility yesterday evening.

I haven't heard back from Mary since either so I don't know what is happening. Hopefully this place was able to help the bird.

Thanks for going out of your way to try to help, you have done all you can and it's up to her now if she chooses to contact you for help...if the bird hasn't been taken somewhere already.

Thank you for your efforts Phil!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad, 

The Vet at West Cheyanne is top notch, but allows no reciprocity or anything other than a bruque nod at most IF you insist on seeing him when you do bring a Bird in, and, when you drop a Bird off and you will never see that Bird again...and unless it is a high status Bird, or if it is a medium status Bird that needs time and attentions, well...

They are VERY busy there and I would doubt seriously that a Coot with an injury like this will be given other than...'the needle'...

Individual persons willing to do this kind of Work, who may do so WITH some assistance from a qualified Vet, where the person then takes care OF the Bird, are about the only hope for a Bird who is other then say a Bald Eagle or something, otherwise, none of the "pros" are going to spend that kind of individual time and effort and so on, not when they have the workloads they have with paying customers filling up the waiting room, as well as wild life emergencies with 'heavy' status Birds.

Lastly, I am amazed at the occasions ( few, thankfully) when someone elects to be so secretive, taciturn, non-communicative in the face of sincere good will, and to shun the gesture entirely.

Who knows...

But my bet is she got the brusque 'nod' form the kid working the counter, the Vet later took one look at it, and the Coot is on the barrel for the rendering plant now.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway, 

The 'west cheyanne' facility, is 'dr. kolmstedder' or how ever one spells it, and that is racket only for high dollar fee Parrots and so on..various Vets I have talked with have seconded my impressions of her, adding how they thought her 'fees' for often doing not much for these 'Exotic' Birds, were "high". She will not look at a Bird unless it is a fast four or five hundred bucks for some quicky exam and a shot or something. It is a 'racket'... and they will not do anything for any Wild or feral Bird or any injured Wild or feral Bird even if they smile and say "thanx" as you hand it to them and leave, they will just kill it and toss it in their dumpster or rendering barrel for the next rotation.

I just called them and they semi-scandalously said that no 'Coot' had been brought in...

In my immediately previous post, I was confuseing that with the 'North Las Vegas Animal Hospital' also on Cheyanne, but on the eastern-central portion of Cheyanne, and he is a top-notch avian Vet, I believe he is VERY competant and sincere, and does do protected species work, but he has no time for things like a Coot with a complex and time requireing injury needing prolongued rehab follow up care. He seems like a great Vet, but he can not spare one second more than a moment to ever talk with you or to communicate, he pauses on his heel, grabs whatever you brought in and vanishes and thats it. You are nothing to him if you are not in the magic circle of the demimonde.

I just called the North Las Vegas Animal Hospital and, they say...no Coot has been brought in...to them...either...

They have limited space and little time even for the 'heavies' (Eagles, and so on) and trying to keep up with their paying clients pets. Injuries like this Coot has are hardly the kind of things any of these places will deal with because they simply do not have the personell, the time or the interest or motive and so on to do so.

Some places WILL help if the person bringing the Bird in can somehow display enough import to show their own competance TO care for it afterward, and or has already establiches a rapport making such tacit understandings possible...a cold walk in is not going to stand much of a chance even with the open hearted few that MIGHT be competant to address an injury like this one...and so there is only that thin line of possibility in these cases...to get the injury evaluated, appropriately treated, maybe having to spend some dough to do so, and then walk with the Bird and not have it confiscated and euthenised.

The problem also, is that places like these are in a legal bind TO confiscate and euthanise anything they do not wish to invest protracted time in careing for, when it is brought in or dropped off and is anything in the way of a protected species, which of course everything is except Pigeons and Sparrows. 

Pigeons and Sparrows rank less with them of course, if they can be said to rank at all. They can not let the person walk back 'out' with any Wild Bird other than a 'feral' Pigeon or Sparrow, either, for the person TO care for it even if the person wants to, and even if it is something totally simple like to just feed for another week and release...so, they kill it because a regular person is not supposed to posess or touch or have anything to do with any 'protected' species.

So, bring a Coot there, and you will have one perfunctorily ("1" ) euthanized Coot unless maybe, MAYBE it is deemed 'releaseable' with some minimum fuss and a couple days in a cage next to a yapping poodle needing some skin treatment or something...in which case they will keep the Bird and release it if they do not have to drive very far or bother very much, and a Coot is hardly a Bird that is usual for the middle areas of town.


So, anyway...I may be wrong, and maybe whomever, 'kolmstedtter' or whatever her name is, might (but from talking with her in the past, I totally doubt it, as in her terms, these and their likes are all 'garbage birds' not worth her time or status unless brought in by a rich customer willing to drop quite a few hundred dollars for some not-much-treatment) even IF the receptionists is patronizeing when you carry the poor thing in and drop it off...

But m-a-y-b-e, by some unimaginable miracle, she will have passed the Coot on to someone else who works under a license holder, but overall, as far as I know, any Bird like this here, once introduced into the magic circle of these various vets and the people under the license holder, if the Bird needs 'Heroics' it is not going to get them...unless it is an Eagle, then, sure, they all want to help...

Nor so far as I have seen do any of the people working unde the one, insular, does non-communicative, petty tyrant, screens calls and does not pick up and does notcall back if you leave messages, of sole remaining federal license holder, really DO any real aid for the injured or sick Birds...unless of course, it is an Eagle and so on.

If it is not a really easy fix, the Bird gets to die in the backyard holding cage or left to it's own to be euthenised the next time their pet vet comes by to do a few cages worth of the limping or ill or droopy wing or whatever ones.

The license holder will have nothing to do with anyone who has any real experience in any way, or with anyone who is not 'under' her...but only elects aids and assistants who are middle aged married women with wealthy husbands who have bye and large, forgive me, but, for the most part, have empty heads and no imagination or heart or intellitgence or insight or sense TO care for a healthy Bird let alone an ill or injured one.

They can muddle through with raising adolescents the rest of the way for releases like the 'Bums Rush' at some park, and, thats about it.

Last I saw of one of their people, they had a big cage in their yard full of the last couple months injured and not helped Morning Doves that they were getting ready to have euthenised...looked like about twenty Birds in there. That is the ones that had not died on their own from not getting any help.

Of course they could not part with any of them, unless it were to be to one of their peers under the license holder.

Anyway...

...sigh...

What more can I say...

Sheeeeesh...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

Sounds very much like a lot of avian vets actually. I've dealt with those type here myself. The ones that place levels of importance to certain and specific species.

In any case, I emailed Mary again tonight before I left for work, hopefully she'll get back to me tomorrow with something to report. I'm not really sure why she's not responding here either since her original post.

I'll let you know when I hear anything.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Brad,


I was catharciseing there somewhat...


Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh...

I have recieved an e-mail and evidently the Coot was taken to some Vet who removed the lower Beak-Mabdible, and treated the Leg/Foot issue, for which they provided meds, and I am told the Bird is doing well...has had a second bath, and that the prognisis is 'good'.



I replied with asking what the Vet had said about the Beak injury, and what Vet it was...

I have been afraid that if perfunctory confiscation/euthenasia were somehow not to occur, that an equally perfunctory removal of the mandible would be.

Then too, I have no way of knowing how old this injury was, nor the extent of tissue death that may have been present to justify a removal of it...so...

Maryd apearently either does not posess an actual name, or, has so far prefered it not be known, so, that's about it as far as what I am aprised of with this...

Maybe I am too old fashioned with 'Letter Writing Manners', or, with manners at all for that matter.

I am informed she did not have access to her e-mail, ( I supppose a 'her' since a husband was mentioned to have taken the Bird to a Vet) for the time of no communication untill just a little while ago. Whether this means they did not have access to Pigeontalk, was not mentioned.

I am warmly thanked for my offers of assistance...but of course with no actual name from the person for me to address them in my reply.


So...

Depressed and exhasperated and feeling mixed emotions for the poor little Coot...

And how some people have no name...even when they may write to us or write 'back'...on site or off...

"Shake it off"...! - I tell myself, and, I will...

But for now...

Sheeeesh...

Yours, 

If moody...grumpy even...and not feeling especially diplomatic...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

I just checked my email and I got the same response as you did. Well, at least she has found a vet to treat the bird and it wasn't put down. I'm more than a little concerned about the removal of the lower beak as well. I can't see how this bird would ever be able to be released back into the wild like that.

Frustrating indeed, but all we can do is offer advice and hope that Mary will do the right thing, whatever that may be at this point.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm sad to say that I cannot even imagine how the removal of the lower beak resulted in a good prognosis for this coot. I'm further sad to say that euthanasia would have likely been the kindest treatment for this bird. With no lower beak, the bird cannot fend for itself, and I can't imagine how the tongue is going to be kept in place and from drying out. I further don't understand how even tube feeding is going to keep this bird alive for any length of time even if an appropriate tubing formula has been devised.

Coots are very skittish birds with big attitudes, and the amount of handling that is going to be required to attempt to care for this bird will probably be enough to finish the poor thing off.

Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh and uncaring .. that's not my intent .. I just don't think an appropriate diagnosis and treatment plan was found for this bird.

Terry


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