# Help! New to ringneck doves - they're not getting on well!



## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Hi there,

I joined up and posted on this forum several years ago when I rescued an injured young pigeon with a torn crop and got some great advice. The vet nurse at my local avian vet adopted her and said they'd fix her up. As far as I know, everyone lived happily ever after.  

Anyway, I'm back as I am now a happy owner of two beautiful white ringneck doves. Unfortunately, they're not getting along as happily as I had hoped. 

I bought them about two months ago from a shop that specialises in birds. The owner of the shop told me that a male and female would be a good option, so that's what I ended up with (or so it seemed). The female, Hope, was a little smaller and had pink feet. The male, Faith (yeah I know that's a girl's name, but he doesn't mind!) was a little larger and had darker, more purple feet. The owner of the shop said that generally this is how to tell their sex. I have since done some googling, and I haven't found anything to back this up - now I'm thinking maybe Hope is just younger.

Faith has always shown male behaviours. He sometimes bow-coos, and he spends a lot of time doing wing-flipping. Hope has always been very vocal, but never used to bow-coo or wing-flip. Not sure if this means anything, but Hope has a higher pitched voice than Faith, and Faith's cooing is often more like a rooster. 

When I first brought them home, for a few weeks, everything was fine. They got on well. Then all of a sudden Hope started attack Faith. She pecked out a lot of feathers on his head/neck when I wasn't around to stop her - he was even bleeding a little, and had been pecked around one of his eyes too. I had to separate them.

Hope has been attacking Faith on and off over the past few weeks. I keep them in a very large cage (like a small aviary - if it weren't on wheels, I'd be able to climb into it), and when necessary I put Hope into a small cage next to it. Faith gets upset when I put Hope in the other cage, but often she'll attack him if I put her back. Basically, I try to keep them separated whenever there's any trouble - I don't want Faith getting hurt! 

I have been able to take them inside and they generally get on well - Faith will preen Hope and they seem all cute and happy together. Then I'll put them back in their cage and Hope will try to attack faith again. Other times, I see Faith opening his beak and Hope putting her beak in his (I read that the male pretends to feed the female, so I guess this is what they're doing).

I've been searching the internet to see what I can do about this. One website suggested that a female might attack a male because he isn't providing nesting materials. As such, I put a shelf/box up in the top of the cage. Faith liked to go into it and do his wing-flipping. I then got them some twigs and sticks so they could build a nest. At this point, Hope went into the box and started wing-flipping. Faith attempted to gather sticks and bring them into the box. (They have not succeeded in building a nest at this stage!)

Sometimes they seem to get on, and they play around trying to choose twigs together, and then suddenly Hope will start attacking Faith. Sometimes he fights back and they end up fighting on the floor of the cage. Other times, I'll find them both in the corner of the cage, wing-flipping together.

Today Hope was chasing Faith relentlessly, trying to peck him, etc. She makes that laughing sound a lot when she does this. Then they were fighting, and I separated them again. I brought them inside hoping that they'd be all friendly together like they often are, but as soon as I did so, Hope started pecking Faith again - once again, I had to separate them.

It has got to the point where I don't think they can be in a cage together. The problem is, I live in an apartment now. The cage is on my balcony, and there is no room for another one. I can't keep Hope in the little second cage (this is really only sufficient for an emergency, and I don't like to keep any bird in there for more than a day - there's enough room to move slightly, and stretch her wings, but not enough room to get any exercise). 

Over the past two months, Hope has got a big bigger than she used to be (about the same size as Faith, almost), has become very aggressive toward Faith, has started bow-cooing, wing-flipping. Do you think that maybe Hope is also a male, or that they're just not a matched pair? It seems like Faith is keen to be friends with Hope, but she just keeps attacking him. 

Any advice on what I can do? 

Sorry that this has been such a long post - I wanted to explain everything to try to give you all a good idea of the whole situation.


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Dove troubles*

If you just want 2 friendly doves to share a cage together and not breed, 2 females will be WAY easier than a male/female pair.

Usually, when you have male/female pair, one or both birds will want to breed. If they can't breed (for example, if there is no nest provided), the female may not want to breed but the male might want to mate anyway - so the female may resist his "advances" and this can lead to aggression (chasing, pecking, wing slapping, etc) which can be very stressful on the birds. Also, if the doves are related (brother/sister), the female may resist the male's advances and again this can lead to fighting (and even if they got along OK, you should *never* breed brother/sister pairs because of inbreeding). So generally, I'd say don't have a male/female pair togther in a cage if you don't want them to breed. Sometimes an older male/female pair can co-exist fine without breeding but once one is showing aggression, it is a losing battle - you have to either let them breed or separate them. 

Now you can let a male/female pair nest and toss the eggs (i.e. destroy them) but the female will usually just keep laying - and this will deplete her and shorten her life, over time. Some people toss the real eggs and replace them with fake eggs, which obviously never hatch. But either way you have to be "up" for destroying live fertilized eggs (that _would _hatch if allowed to be incubated) and many people are not comfortable with doing this. 

Again, if you want peaceful doves that don't breed, get 2 females. 2 males can sometimes work but it usually doesn't. If I were you (and you don't want to breed your doves), I'd bring back the most aggressive bird and swap it for another - hopefully the male is your aggressor and you can just get another female.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you could have two males and the younger is becomeing sexually mature.. you may have no choice but to seperate if they get too aggressive. two hens as said work out great.. I had three hens and they all shared the same basket to sit on their eggs together, a true pair can be nice but they have to be the only two in the cage.. a pair of males may end up just like what you have there...which is not working as the younger matures.


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks very much for your replies, Ron and Spirit Wings! 

I wish I had got two females. This is what I had originally planned to do, but when I suggested it to the shop owner, he just went, "nah, I'll get you a male/female pair". 

Yesterday Hope (the "female") was being particularly aggressive toward Faith. I put her in the small cage, but let her go back in with Faith at night. When I got up this morning, they were both huddled together in the corner on the bottom of the cage, wing-flipping, and then they were playing around with the sticks. It almost looks like they're thinking of making a nest on the floor of the cage (even though I put a shelf/box up the top which they had been spending time in). Is this normal behaviour?

Do females ever wing-flip?

I'm thinking more and more that I might need to try to take Hope back and swap her (him?) for another dove, but I feel really bad about this. Having never had a situation like this with birds in the past (and I have kept many birds my whole life - mostly parrots, though), I tend to think that once you commit to a pet, you can't just take them back when you change your mind. I guess I'm not changing my mind per se - if they can't be happy together then I'm not doing either of them any favours by keeping them both. 

I don't want to take Faith back because I have bonded with him already. He's a lovely bird, and he is the gentle one. Given that he is definitely a male, how should I go about getting a replacement to go with him? Am I going to have a whole lot more trouble?

Thanks again your helping me out - I really want to make things work the best way possible (whatever that will be)!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

get another cage to house another pair, and get two hen companions for the two you have, and all should be well in the long run. the cages do not have to be super big. knowing they are hens is not best left up to guessing by the pet store clerk, you want true hens but even experienced folks guess wrong sometimes.


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Thank Spirit Wings. I was just thinking last night how I wish I could keep both in separate cages and get each of them a new friend. I'm not sure if I'm able to make this work where I live. The cage that Faith is in is very big and my balcony is very small, so if I were to get a second cage (I'd need a new one as the cage that Hope is in right now is way too small in the long term) it wouldn't be very big. What is the minimum size that a dove would be happy in? 

Would they both need to have new friends in their cages to keep them happy, or would they be okay just in their own separate cages where they can still see and talk to each other?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Imo, I do think doves are happier with companions.. wether it two hens or a true pair. the cage would be fine at 2ft by 2ft at the least for each pair, or as big as you can go beyound that.


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Hmm, I'm 99% sure that I can't fit another cage on my balcony that will be big enough. I'll do some measurements when I get home tonight as I'd love to be able to keep both, but whatever happens, I'll put their needs first. (Definitely keeping Faith, of course - he's a real sweety!)


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Okay, I've checked it out and unfortunately there is no room for a second cage. Sadly I think I'm going to have to take Hope back and find a new female friend for Faith. 

Just out of curiosity, do females ever wing-flip? Can anyone explain why both doves were huddling in the corner of the cage wing-flipping together the other day?


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

two guys = fight.
two females= ok
in nature birds prefer pairing with opposite sex. if guys cant find gfs they will court other males and those other males will get irriated and fight. my advice, get 2 cages. same size. same color. next to each other. esp during spring when they hormones are super high and wana mate so to blow off some anger they fight to show who deserves their new gf.
generally ringneck doves/barbary doves are super agressive and constantly fight. y? not sure but perhaps because they are gentically manipulated to where they looked like eurasian collared doves yet smaller size but to sing almost identicall like african mourning doves. 
i dont got ph dree but if i really wanted i would b a dove specialist/aviculturist/dove doctor cuz i been having doves ever since i was a lil boi


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

other option is to cut both of the males wings so they dont have to catch up with each other and leave female unclipped. again all depends where u live n how big where u live n why u wana have doves....all depends on each individual situation


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

The simple answer is I want a couple of pet doves and I want them to be happy.  I originally wanted two females but the bird shop owner recommended a male and female. That was a mistake. 

I don't have a female at this stage (well, I was supposed to, but 'she' seems to be a young 'he'), so sadly I'll have to try to swap the aggressive one for a female (hopefully a real female this time). 

I would never clip a bird's wings.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

good for you for not clipping the wings.. they can do flyers out the door though, but it sounds like you would be careful of that.


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## Snuffy (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks Spirit Wings. I've kept birds all my life (mostly parrots as well as doves, quails, finches, etc - new to the beautiful ringneck doves though!) and haven't lost any out the window yet.  It helps that doves fly so slowly compared to parrots, too! 

I've been in touch with the owner of the bird place, and he's happy for me to swap Hope for a girl. Fingers crossed that things work out this time. I'm pretty sad to have to take Hope back, but in the long run, I guess it's better to do this than to keep two male doves who can't be happy together. 

Thanks again to everyone who has given me advice on this topic. I always feel comfortable that I'm getting good advice from people who really know and love their doves, which is a big help. Much appreciated!


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