# Saved baby....need tips on release



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Everyone. I am a new member here. I have a specific situation I could use some advice on. I have perused the archives and threads similar in nature, as well as sending e-mails to some members who seemed particularly knowledgable about how to release.

The info I have read is good, but I have some specific questions particularly in regards to the current state the situation here. This is gonna be a bit long, so bear with me:

....I have had pigeons living and nesting in the lightwell of my apt. bldg. since 1999....right outside my kitchen window. We have been
pals ever since. The families keep changing, and some veterans stayed put for years and years and I have seen many generations of their kids.

11 days ago, I looked out there and found a mangled corpse of a baby pigeon...one of two which had recently hatched. I figured it was taken by a redtail hawk, of which there are a few since I live near a park. But, it must have been one hecka ballsy hawk to descend 2 storeys into a 12x15 lightwell.

Two days later...I found another nestling which was at the ground floor of the lightwell...torn to shreds. With the help of some folks ant NYC Rescue, we determined that it wasn't a hawk which had done this, but a rat.

(UPDATE: if you read my other thread in 'feral pigeon' section...we were wrong...it was a small hawk...it actually returned and killed an adult.....)

I went out and took in the surviving nestling outside my kitchen window. He/she was between 15 and 20 days old when I brought him in (link to pic below).

With the help of my local avian vet (I have 3 parrots), they gave her a once-over to check her health....and then showed me how to syringe-feed it.

He's been with me for a 10 DAYS now and is eating pretty well and growing and strong. Also pecking at seed very voraciously. He is also a cutie...very full of personality...and pushy !!!

Meanwhile, I am trying to take care of the rat problem.

So, the great news is: the lil' guy has been saved from the rat, and I have been able to handfeed it and sustain it's health as she grows.

I put it's cage outside on my porch and in the lightwell a little bit each day, since that is where the wild pigeons hang out, roost, and forage occasionally. I let him out for a few minutes as the adult pigeons eat some seed I give to them. Sometimes he just stays close to his box, and sometimes he dives into the group of adults and begs...at which point, they usually scuttle away, or one occassionally chases him away from the seed. As I said, he is beginning to peck at the seed and consume some.

The parents show up in the lightwell ocassionally, and they can hear it crying....but they have come less frequently since I have taken it in....(2 times, brief visits, in past 3-1/2 days)....and they no longer seem to roost here at night.

So, she has been observing adults close up, and there are a few pairs of regular visitors still coming here..so there are about 6-8 pigeons around regularly, two being her parents.

....NOW WHAT ????? I love birds and although I have a bunch of wild pigeon friends all around our building... I would prefer that this lil' one join them, and not become my companion.

I have several quetsions on how I should do this.

1) She's about 4 weeks old right now...give or take a day or two. Flapping strongly, hopping and occasionally gets airborne for a few seconds, albeit only a foot off the ground. Within a week, I would suspect it will be able to fully fly. So I am assuming I can safely take her outside to watch other pigeons forage, without fear that she could actually fly away from me. IS THIS CORRECT ? OR AM I TAKING A CHANCE I COULD LOSE HER ?

2) I am still handfeeding her 2x/day. I syringe in about 13-16 cc of Kaytee formula a day, and she eats about 2 teaspoons of seed a day. AT WHAT POINT SHOULD I CUTBACK THE HANDFEEDING TO 1X/DAY, IN ORDER TO START WEENING ? AT WHAT POINT SHOULD I CUT OUT HANDFEEDING ALTOGETHER ?

A recap: this baby spend the first 2+ weeks of her life in her nest, being tended to by mom & dad. I have had her for only the past 10 days. I would like to segue her back into the wild, WHEN SHE'S READY, but do not want to risk her flying off prematurely or flying to a location where I cannot retrieve her.....
I feel fortunate that there are some pigeons regularly around the house, so am hoping they can serve as examples to her.

Suggestions appreciated.

here's a link to a pic of him the day before I took him in....

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/jaye86/pigie.jpg


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Great Save!*

What a Cutie and a great rescue. 
Four weeks is way too young to let Cutie go. As you have been doing sounds great...spending time with the ferals and always a safe home to return to. If you continue in the same way, I suspect the bird will separate from you and the safety of your home when the bird is ready to. I think it's a perfect arrangement.
As far as hand feeding, they have always let me know when they don't wish to be hand fed any longer. That's usually when I think they will NEVER be totally self feeding and I'll still be mixing that formula when they have gray feathers.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This might be helpful as well
.http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10874


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Welcome to the forum. I love stories like yours and believe me, you have the best of circumstances to release your baby when the time is right.

You want her to be fully feathered, eating totally on her own, flying well and her feathers need to be conditioned so she sheds water before being released.

Always check under their wings to make sure all the feathers are in and that wing and tail feathers have grown to a good length.

I would begin feeding her only in the evening but making sure seed and water is always available. You can stop that feeding probably in a week or so, just as long as she is eating well on her own. We like to weigh them to make sure they're not losing weight.

Also, when they learn to fly it is usually when they begin "dancing" around on a kitchen counter or the floor. They flap their little wings and hop around. I wouldn't put her freely with the adult pigeons just yet. You can set her in her cage in the area where they feed and let her become familiar with them and watch them eat. If you allow her to freely mingle with them right now, she may get "spooked" and take off. I have seen them do it when I didn't think they could fly.

Give her baths about every other day so her feathers can become water-proof.

It won't take much longer - maybe three more weeks or a bit longer. You are so lucky that you will be able to keep an eye on her. Releasing ours is always the hardest part of rehabbing.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi. She is just beginning to dance around on the counter or the floor....she has just started hopping up in and out of her box on her own, and begun to perch on the edge of her box regularly. Is beginning to flap vigorously.

Amazing design, these guys. As I said, I have a lot of experience with parrots...but the anatomy of columbids is very different...their proportions are different. They are all wing.

So you think that just viewing the adults from inside is good enough for now ? She does get a bit spooked by them sometimes, but then she also just barges right into the middle of 'em other times (wants to be fed by an adult, I suspect). However, there have been times when the adults took off in a flutter and she basically flapped, but stayed grounded. My heart jumps up to my throat the couple of times that has happened...but I am trying not to be a nervous nellie.....

Thanks for the info on the feeding, too. Unfortunately, I don't have a gram scale. Does the 15 cc of formula plus 2 tsp. seed sound like an adequate daily intake for a 4-week old ???? 

Also, regarding water...how should I serve it up ? Bowl ? saucer ? Bottle cap? Thimble ? (no, just kidding). I have been also giving him about 1 cc of Pedialyte daily as well, for extra hydration although I suspect the wetness of the formula is sufficient. 

He/she isn't chubby....but most of the other wild fledglings I have seen over the years start out being on the lithe side at this stage.

Thanks for the replies so far.....please keep them coming....I need all the help I can get


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Jaye, she is a cutie. She is probably at my favorite age in their "growing up" process. You mentioned that the adult pigeons do get spooked at times and she would flap. That is the danger. If she senses danger when they do, and if she can fly, she will take flight with them and may not come back. If she has a cage you can set her out with the adults and let her watch them but otherwise I wouldn't until she meets all the criteria I suggested in the other post. You also need to be there with her any time she is outside, even in a cage, because of the rat problem.

I think, if she is eating on her own that the 15 cc of Kaytee, plus the 2 tsp of seed is enough for another week or so. She looks very healthy and bright-eyed. Her tail feathers still seem pretty short and I didn't see any true flight feathers on her wings - have they been clipped at all?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Jaye said:


> Also, regarding water...how should I serve it up ? Bowl ? saucer ? Bottle cap? Thimble ? (no, just kidding).




Give her water in a dish deep enough so she can siphon up the liquid. They need at least an inch or so to get their beak in far enough to do that, so a couple inches of water makes sure she can get a sip whenever she wants one.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the watering tip, Snipes. 

Lady...no, she definitely has not been clipped. His/her primary wing feathers are definitely in...and you are correct, tail feathers still quite short.

At first I didn't understand what you were saying.

It seemed to me that the SAFEST time to let her "practice forage" with the adults is when she cannot get airborne, as opposed to letting her practice when that possibility exists.

I slept on that, and am thinking that...what you are saying is: it's better to let her practice forage with the adults when she is at an age where, if she does take off with them, she has a better chance of survival.

Do I have that right ? Or am I still off.....???


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Jaye said:


> Thanks for the watering tip, Snipes.
> 
> Lady...no, she definitely has not been clipped. His/her primary wing feathers are definitely in...and you are correct, tail feathers still quite short.
> 
> ...


Yes, you have that right. Let her forage with them when you're sure she is capable of being on her own. You have an ideal situation where she has a ready-made flock she can join and you will be able to see how she is doing. Don't be surprised if she lands on you sometimes after she is released. Sure wish I had a similar situation for when we release ours.

I apologize for not being clearer - sometimes I don't understand what I'm saying!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Is this cute, or whaaaat ?*

Thanks again, all. I have been following your advice, she/he is doing well.

Attached is a funny lil' pic....is this typical ? One of the wild adults from the front of my house apparently has taken a liking to the baby. It actually hangs out with it a lot when I put her outside to observe other pigeons foraging ! This adult is not her mom or dad, incidentally...just another neighborhood pigeon.

Sits on her cage, sometimes just perches on the wall of my porch right next to the cage...for quite a while.

My girlfriend was over the other night when I was syringe-feeding, and she decided to put the cup of mixed formula up the the little one's face.

The pidgie dove right it, up to the end of it's beak, and started just eating (well, siphoning) the formula out all by himself !

Then did the same thing with a small dish of water.

Charis, you had said they will let you know when they are tired of handfeeding. I didn't believe that...but now I see what you mean. She is beginning to prefer the solid food (seed) as opposed to me syringe-feeding her. She is eating about 3-4 teaspoons of seed/day now.... Although I still get in about 8 cc's a day just to make sure she's getting enough nourishment.

I guess it won't be long now until release...she's looking more like a pigeon every day (every hour, actually). The tail feathers are getting longer now.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is such a cute pic of your little pijies friend watching over her.


Reti


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## littlecakes (Mar 14, 2008)

So cool!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a cute bird, sometimes the sound of a squeaker will bring the attention of other birds, I have had some even trying to feed them. 

Thank you for taking such good care of her/him and enabling him a wonderful life.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well, I should thank you all for all of the help and support I am getting...we are lucky to have found this forum.

She's beginning to hop-fly now...and today she discovered if she can make it to my windowsill...she can see her brethren out in the lightwell (from whence she came). Here's a pic of her w/ a brother-sister pair (outside the window ~ yup, they are brother-sister, hatched and grew up together... their glorious Dad was light grey/rose, and their awesome Mom was dark grey/silver). 

Brother and sister, and their older sib as well as their Mom and Dad...are a story unto themselves...but for another day.









So...the squeaker....he/she is 33 days old now, give or take a day. How much longer now ? At what age are they capable of full flight ? (I read somehwere online that it's 6 weeks ~ is this so ? ) And once they are, how much longer do I keep her here before going ahead w/ the release ????


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Update*

Hello.

My lil' friend is between 36-40 days old now. She's no longer eating handfed formula...strictly seed and water.

She loves getting a spritz-shower !

I am still leving her cage outside on the porch when I am home...she has a regular gaggle of neighborhood pigeon visitors...and that one friend who still sits with her (on top of the cage).

She is itching to get out now. She is flapping a lot...feathers look to be all in. In comparison to an adult pigeon, she looks pretty grown-up now. When her friends take off from my porch...she jumps and laps and wants to go with them.

She does a little free-flying in my kitchen 2x/day when I am changing the cage. usually ends up here (top shelf, 9' off of the floor !) where she can gaze upon her temporary digs :










So...my question becomes...WHEN ? I am guessing she's about ready for her soft release . How many more days should I wait ?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I guess she is quite ready. Is she flying well and fast? Is she quick in taking off? She might be ready to join her friends.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Jaye, looks to me like she is ready to spread her wings any day. I would release her when there is no rain in the forecast at least for a couple of days and the temps are pretty stable. It will be so nice that you will probably see her from time to time.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would wait until you know the outside temperature won't drop below freezing at night.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

Phil, who used to post on here, and is very knowledgeable about releases, says to wait until the 45-50 day mark. They need as much flying practice as they can get to strengthen their wings and improve their general navigation of obstacles, and turning and things like that.

Just because she can fly may not mean she can fly well enough (yet) to escape predators to the standard that the wild pigeons can, so if i was you, i'd wait until then 

Then you'll know for sure.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Tomorrow's the day.*

Well, my plan is for tomorrow morning (Wed.) I work out of the house and I have only one appointment, so I will be around almost all day. Weather is good (for SF, that is). No rain in forecast...and as I said, she's itchin' to bust outta her box/cage. 

I am more than a little sad though, y'know ? She's a great lil' pidgie. Also apprehensive....we do live near a park w/ hawks.....and I am very concerned....

Her adoptive "flock" (subflock, looks like) is very well acquainted w/ her now...it includes a bonded pair, a veteran adult (Yelloweyes), an older adolescent who has taken a particular shine to her (he's the cage-sitter !), and a couple other adults and adolescents. They all look quite healthy and strong....so, I guess she will be in good company.....

Any last-minute words of wisdom ?????


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

If you could set the cage where you plan to release & have a string attached to the door so you can open it from a distance...then wait for her ''flock'' to come to eat the food you have scattered around the cage....especially wait for her special friend to come.....it might be of the opposite sex and might take her home with him/her and she will have shelter from the get-go and a teacher to show her the ''ropes''. Good luck.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good luck, Jaye! I hope the release is a great success. Please do let us know how it goes. Many thanks to you for assisting this pigeon!

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Squeaker on the Town ! Pigie release day !!!*

Hi all. Well....Today was the day ! There had been forecasted showers for yesterday (which never materialized)...and good weather predicted through the weekend. So...with more than a bit of hesitation....the lil' squeaker was set free today. She certainly is between 44-49 days old, for sure.

I spent some extra time w/ her this morning, giving her breakfast...holding her again, and giving her a kiss. Then, as we have been doing for weeks now, I put her/his box/cage on the front porch along w/ some scattered seed. A couple of members of her "7th Avenue Flock" soon began to arrive, off an on, and they all had some breakfast together. Then they scattered....they were away for a bit. I wanted at least two or three other pigeons there when I released, and was wondering if it would happen today. Lo and behold, at around 11 AM, several arrived on the porch. I realized that now was the time....so, I scattered some seed, they came up and started eating...and with a lump in my throat and some tears in my eyes as well....I told her I loved her, and to listen to the adults.... and lifted off the top of the cage.

















She jumped onto the edge, then onto the porch, then started flap-walking. She didn't wait around too long....she lifted off and started flying in an irregular circle about one storey off the ground, then alighted on a window ledge. This made a few of the others scatter and take off as well. She tried to follow suit, but couldn't ascend as quickly as the others, so she did some exploratory flying up and down the block, just a bit...landing on a few roofs, then on a wire right above the sidewalk in front of my building. 


















I stayed outside, sitting ont the steps, and just watched and talked to her. The flocks of the neighborhood were doing some nice ballets up above....she seemed to be taking it in and was also very excited...probably a bit overwhelmed ...("wait...you mean...I'm FREE now ????"). She/he was up, flying, a bit awkward and such, but getting on.....

After a few minutes, I went inside for a minute and when I came back, I saw her take off from the wire and over the roofs.

A few minutes later I walked up ad down the street...there were groups of pigeons on a number of roofs...and a pair of pigeons on one of the roofs....and (with the help of my field monocular) I confirmed it was her on my nieighbor's roof five doors down. A short time later, she was joined by an adult. They hung out together for a while...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

It sounds like the release went very well. It is always a bittersweet moment when you let them go .. part of you wants them to be free and live their lives out on their own and with their own kind and part of you wants to always keep them safe with you. I hope you will continue to see your little one from time to time.

Good job and god bless!

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I could not help but think...can you imagine, the thrill of flying in the sky ? What must it have seemed like to her ? It's no mystery why we humans have such feelings for birds, is it ? I was kinda overwhelmed by it all...I called my girlfriend and told her what was going on. It was really very emotional (I still AM very emotional).

Then about 20 minutes later, I had to go around the corner to do some errands. When I came back, she and her pals came down a few minutes later to the front of my house....so I fed them a bit...










He/she had been out about an hour by then...I imagined she was taking some practice flights and resting in between. Something startled them (me, maybe....perhaps I was insisting on feeding them a bit too much) and they took off. Again, she took off quickly with them (a GOOD sign...as I have noticed some young ones hesitate in taking off in these instances). Some went to nearby roofs, but I lost sight of her.

A few minutes later, she/he was on my porch again....so I took my lunch outside and ate on the porch, while feeding my friends on the sidewalk. They were startled when another pigeon came down around the corner of the building quickly. They dispersed to the roofs of my building and my neighbors...came down again a few minutes later.










Almost done w/ lunch, about 10 minutes, something startled them again and they lifted off. Pigie joined them...and this time she looked much more coordinated and a bit quicker.

I took some walks up and down the street the rest of the day...and I am pretty sure I saw her a few more times...usually in the vicinity of some others.

So, it is night now...the weather is pretty mild, and a bit humid as the fog has rolled in and out. Thankfully, not as bitter as some nights have been thus far this year. Around 40 F at night.....

So, I am hoping and praying for her, hoping she found a nice spot to sleep with a friend nearby....and hoping to see her again sometime soon....


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks, TA. And everyone for all of the support and ideas and all....

Yes, I read over that thread here on "when to release"...and really, lil' Pigie fits the description well. There was a time while handfeeding where I thought she/he might be bonding to me....but it never ended up happening. She really kept on as a wild bird...shy of the hand, trying to evade being handled. Had this not been so, it would have made my decision more difficult. But she wanted to go back to being a feral.

But you are right, as I expected when the time came....it's an inner struggle between wanting to protect at all costs, and wanting to give her back the life she was born into.....

So, y'all know how this feels.....


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Job well done, Jaye. This isn't the end.....once a rescue, there will always be more to find you and you will do well by them as you have for this pijie.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's so great. I hope he/she has a long life. I hope you stick around too.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

This is a great place....and I have been a pigeon friend for a decade now, so definitely this forum has a top bookmark !

I saw her this morning...I was looking for her in the flock, which came to feed at about 8...but she wasn't there...I took my daughter to school and came back home....and I spotted her on a roof. That was wonderful ! A few minutes later, she came down....she was hanging out w/ an adult...an adult which looked very much like one of her parents whom she hadn't seen for a month (although I may be guilty of a bit of anthropomorphizing here). She looked happy...she was preening herself and eating and following the adult shoulder-to-shoulder at times. They had breakfast w/ me outside...they would come and go. Then a few minutes ago I saw her flying over the backyards and to an opposite roof...then a few minutes later, she left....

Great scene around here this morning....lotsa flocks of sailing pigeons, hi and lo....and a lotta Ravens around as well....


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so glad everything went well. I know this is a bitter sweet moment   and you may feel your heart pitter-patter when you see her.

You did a wonderful job with her, and I appreciate the wonderful pictures and details of her release. Thank you again for caring and helping one of our noble ferals.

I ask God to watch over and protect her during this time of newly acquired freedom in the outdoors.


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