# Considering pigeons, have questions



## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I did my research and would like to add a couple of pigeons to my apartment, but still have a few questions. 


1) I don't plan on ever releasing them outside but I do want to let them out each day in my apartment for exercise. I understand indoor birds should have access to Vitamin D3 to absorb calcium, and I see on the Kaytee fortified dove diet there is cholecalciferol which is labelled as D3. Is this enough to absorb calcium or would I still need to buy a supplement? Recommendations if so?

2) I found a "bird gravel" for parrots (I'm guessing it's soluble "grit") that has oyster shell and charcoal, would this be acceptable until I find the black Kaytee hi-cal grit or red pigeon grit? If I can't, would a crushed granite/chicken grit be okay or are the pieces too big? I'm still mapping out the local feed/ag stores so I haven't been able to look for the red grit yet. My parents have chickens so I have an endless supply of eggs to crush for their calcium, at least.

3) I probably will be working on hand-taming and won't be able to measure them for pants for a while. How would you pigeon-proof a kitchen? I was thinking of laying towels on everything I don't want poop on and making sure nothing was hot.

4) Any ideas on making a water bowl? I found a plan on here to make a food bowl using a tupperware container, but I was wondering about making/repurposing a tip-proof water bowl too. Otherwise, what waterers are recommended?

5) Anything that I should have on hand for emergencies or medicine, treats, etc? Like putting garlic cloves or ACV in their water, or the raw chopped peanuts.

6) Vet bewares; I'm still looking for an avian vet, what are the signs of a good or bad one? What would you consider an average price in the US for basic checkups so I can avoid being ripped off?


The irony here is that I've just about gotten everything together with little problem... but the bird sanctuaries here very rarely take in pigeons and I'm not sure if regular shelters ever have any surrenders. Craigslist seems to be the only place I've reliably seen pigeons so far, but I'm not sure if I would trust those birds to be healthy or social towards people. When I'm completely ready I'll probably turn to this forum first for a pair of birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The kitchen is really not a good place to keep them. If you use teflon pans, that is toxic to birds. Microwaves are really bad for birds also.
Yes, they should have a calcium and D3 supplement, as the female laying eggs uses a lot of calcium, and can run into problems. Chicken egg shells can be used, but should be boiled first, or microwaved for a few minutes to kill any bacteria. Still would need extra D3 or sunlight, without window glass or screen, as those block the rays they need to make vit. D3.

Grit for chickens is too big for pigeons. They need a good Hi-Calcium pigeon grit. You may have a feed and grain place around that has it or can get it.
Avian vets are not cheap no matter where you live. 

As for a drinker, go to a pet store and buy a heavy crock that they will not spill over, and not large enough for them to bathe in.
A cage should be more wide than high.
No matter where you get the birds, nothing will guarantee that they will be tame. That takes time. 
Pigeons are not usually cuddly. They don't normally like being picked up and petted. They like to come to you when they want to. They need to learn to trust you and get used to having you around. It takes patience, and they all have different personalities. Some become friendlier than others. They are also messy in a house. They throw seed when eating, they molt, and they are dusty. Some people can have sensitivity to the dust. A good fan to pull the stale air out, and bring fresh air in is important. Or maybe an air cleaner. I don't really think that pigeons are the best house pets one can have. I wouldn't want them in the house 24/7. I do have them inside if they are injured, sick, or new and need to be quarantined for a month before introducing to the flock. But I wouldn't really choose a pair of pigeons for a house pet. It can be a long commitment, as they can live over 15 years.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Thank you for the reply. I'm not keeping them in the kitchen, the floor plan is open aside from the bathroom and bedroom so they could easily fly over there if they wanted to, and I'm sure they will. And the only nonstick pan I have is ceramic and that type of pan does not let off any fumes harmful to birds.

What kind of D3 would you recommend then? Something I can add to their food or water, I read about giving them a pill every so often and that just sounds stressful for everyone. When I can I'll check into the local feed stores for proper grit, I was worried the chicken grit would be too large.

As for vets, I just want to know enough to avoid being ripped off. I plan on calling around and seeing if anyone has experienced avian vets and if they can quote me for a basic checkup.

The cage I've bought is a 42" wire crate, which some sources I've found seemed to recommend them due to the width since pigeons like to walk and not climb. I'm working on getting some flat perches for it, I'm sure we have some scrap wood from building the coops and I'm hoping it's untreated.

From reading through this subforum and other pigeon/dove websites I fully understand they likely won't be tame initially, or aren't cuddly and do as they please, and live up to 15 years. I plan on getting an air filter for the dust as well.


EDIT: I also see that it is possible for birds to overdose on D3, which is why I'm leery of adding too much to their diet if their food already contains it. How would you control how much D3 they take in, and how much is too much for pigeons?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Where do you live? Maybe someone can recommend an avian vet near you that is knowledgeable, kind, and reasonable.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

get some homing pigeons , young ones let them out side. if your keeping them in get ring necked doves but they are loud cooing fun fellows.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sundial said:


> Thank you for the reply. I'm not keeping them in the kitchen, the floor plan is open aside from the bathroom and bedroom so they could easily fly over there if they wanted to, and I'm sure they will. And the only nonstick pan I have is ceramic and that type of pan does not let off any fumes harmful to birds.
> 
> What kind of D3 would you recommend then? Something I can add to their food or water, I read about giving them a pill every so often and that just sounds stressful for everyone. When I can I'll check into the local feed stores for proper grit, I was worried the chicken grit would be too large.
> 
> ...





It is actually possible for them to get too much calcium too. If a calcium supplement is given once or twice a week, then they should be fine. Without enough calcium or D3, they will have all sorts of problems, and some of them can kill them.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Roger Siemens said:


> get some homing pigeons , young ones let them out side. if your keeping them in get ring necked doves but they are loud cooing fun fellows.


I only have space for a pair and that doesn't make a safe flock. I doubt the landlord would appreciate me releasing birds either. I looked into ringnecks but absolutely don't want anything that could potentially be heard through walls, and reading on here some males have a habit of cooing at night.



> Where do you live? Maybe someone can recommend an avian vet near you that is knowledgeable, kind, and reasonable.


Southwest Missouri

EDIT: I found fake eggs at Hobby Lobby, which size is best and should I bother painting them?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they would need to be painted. But those are probably too large. Kind of hard to tell from pictures. 
You can buy solid plastic pigeon eggs from pigeon supply places, or ebay, or probably Amazon.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Yes, they would need to be painted. But those are probably too large. Kind of hard to tell from pictures.
> You can buy solid plastic pigeon eggs from pigeon supply places, or ebay, or probably Amazon.


I went and found a picture of a rock pigeon egg measured in cm and a perfect match is the second bag of wood eggs, which I thought might be too big. And I saw for some people's birds they can "catch on" with using plastic eggs. Sorry if it seems like I'm overthinking this by asking twenty questions, but thank you all for answering them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well their eggs are white, so brown won't do. You also need to be able to wash them. So will have to paint them. The paint may peel off eventually. Just easier to buy the solid plastic eggs. They are very inexpensive.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

if pigeons nest in a box you made on your window sill and they happen to be homing pigeons and or a rock dove of some form that are kept clean and out of harms way? they could very well be up to any one guess wild or tame? its up to how you sell the idea to the land lords. pigeons can be loud too. there are other kinds of doves as well from diamond doves to giant runts ( a breed of show pigeon) .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't just keep them in a box outside. They wouldn't be safe unless enclosed.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Roger Siemens said:


> if pigeons nest in a box you made on your window sill and they happen to be homing pigeons and or a rock dove of some form that are kept clean and out of harms way? they could very well be up to any one guess wild or tame? its up to how you sell the idea to the land lords. pigeons can be loud too. there are other kinds of doves as well from diamond doves to giant runts ( a breed of show pigeon) .


I'm not sold on the idea of keeping the birds outside like that, at all.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

pigeons like to come and go have freedom a small loft, a box if you will where they can come and eat be safe from hawks cats and wild life. i m sure if you look into pigeons you will love the idea of a small loft where your birds come to you with a call out side. you have more freedom with pigeons and dove than you do with other birds. really you get what you put in to this hoppy the more time the more your pigeon or pigeons do for you


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

Jay3 your right you can dress the box up how ever you like but a pigeon loft is a safe box, Jim Jenner has a little video on a small loft its easy not alot of money it is a box no bigger than a rabbit hutch, of corse the is a size of box you need a how you do it is up to you. For me keeping a pigeon in side your house might not be the best either but, hey people do it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Roger, 2 pigeons aren't safe outside by themselves. That is why they are in flocks. A small box outside your window sill is not a loft. It's a box. The birds would be doing nothing but sleeping in it. Why get the birds to begin with? That isn't having a pet. That is getting 2 pigeons and pretty much turning them loose.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

two pigeons are safe out side just like 100 of them in a loft where they are safe key words were safe, i m not saying leave your pet out with out being safe. every thing we build is a box for the most part having a loft where you can let them out or close the door keep them in on your deck, window sill or roof top, living room or shop how ever you keep them. keeping them dry, out of the wind and away from predators they will live 20 + years.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

But if you only have 2 birds, why put them outside in a box? They are pets, so you would keep them inside in a large cage. I guess I'm just not understanding what you are saying. Letting them fly outside isn't safe, so why would you keep them outside in a box?


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

point of view i guess, pigeons out side free works for me, if you keep them in your house and that works for you , who am i to say? it is safe to say we are pigeon people, and i love mine.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I wanted to let you know I haven't up and vanished, I just didn't think I could add anything to the discussion. As for the eggs we already have some white paint left over from a project, I just need to check if it's bird safe/low VOC. And the sellers I found on Amazon and Ebay for those plastic eggs just seemed really off to me, so I think I'm going to pass on that. Been too many credit card thefts going around. But thank you for that suggestion, I hadn't thought to check there.

Does the smell of the anise oil in red pigeon grit ever go away? Because it smells great, like black licorice. I could think of worse smells to have 24/7, haha.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sundial, we got our fake eggs from eBay I think and you can use PayPal there which to me seems safer than a cc. Not sure they will accept eggs painted white and would worry about toxicity of the paint. We also sanded the eggs because they were wooden and had a plastic joint g line. This seemed to make them more acceptable to our girls.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Sundial, we got our fake eggs from eBay I think and you can use PayPal there which to me seems safer than a cc. Not sure they will accept eggs painted white and would worry about toxicity of the paint. We also sanded the eggs because they were wooden and had a plastic joininhpg line. This seemed to make them more acceptable to our girls.



Yes. I love Pay Pal. I have gotten eggs where I had to do the same thing with, but I have also gotten eggs that look so real, that I can't tell the difference. You really have to check twice to be sure you aren't missing a real egg.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Ok, I'll look into the plastic ones. And I thought about the problem of telling them apart, maybe make a little dot with something on the fake ones so I can figure out which is which haha.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Depends on what you get. I used to use the painted wooden eggs that some suppliers sell, then I got a bad batch that the paint was peeling off, and when I called them and complained, they sent me different ones that were solid plastic. I really liked them. Then I had bought some on ebay from a particular pigeon supply, and they were the most real plastic eggs I had ever seen. So I sent for more. Later, when I tried to order more, for backup, they sent awful ones, that were no way what I wanted. I don't buy them from them anymore. But when you send for the eggs, you have no way of knowing what they will be like, or the quality. Sometimes they change suppliers. But the plastic are normally better, as they are white all the way through, and no paint to have to worry about whether it will be good, or whether it will peel. 
You really don't need that many with a pair of birds, so if you will PM me your address, I can send you a few so you will have them. Let me know if you do end up getting them, and I'll send the eggs.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Sorry for the sudden vanishing act, I've been catering to a couple of new houseguests for almost a week. 










Meet Cocoa(brown) and Coffee(black)! Cocoa is a male and Coffee female (I'm assuming), and she always puffs up like that and grunts when I get too close. They seemed to have paired up nicely because Cocoa dances and sounds like a small motor trying to start, and they preen and "beak" each other. I'll go ahead and PM my address, since I'll probably need those eggs soon! Thank you for offering them, I hadn't thought about an online retailer "skimping" on the plastic eggs of all things.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh, how cute are they! I like their names. Will have to get the eggs out to you.
It sure wouldn't work to be free outside for these two. LOL.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely birds!


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Blame Coffee for their names... when I realized what a grumpy gus she was it just fit! They're getting along as far as I can tell but I'm curious about some pigeon behavior/language now that they're settled in together.

The meanings of the grunts and the courtship dance Cocoa does are obvious, but he'll also crouch down in a very submissive position and appear to beg for a head preening until Coffee relents. I've never had pigeons but I thought this was odd for a supposed male to do. So far I haven't seen anything that might tell me Coffee might be male, but she will make some very rapid, deep noises occasionally and I can tell its her from how her tail moves. Thoughts?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Common for a male to go down and have the hen preen his head and neck. You know how males are. Always wanting attention. LOL.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

That's so funny! So the bird smell doesn't bother me (until they drop a cecal poop, yikes!) but I understand candles are usually a no-no because of the wicks and scents. I have a wax warmer and I was curious if an unscented, pure chunk of beeswax would be okay to melt in it since it has a mild smell, or a little bit of pure essential oils because honestly who knows what they put in those candles anymore!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I did have a house bird for several years, but had to put the candles and scents away. Peoples birds have died from them. Google it. It was just one male though, so didn't have those smelly droppings, thank God! I have a bird room upstairs in case we have to bring in any sick birds, or quarantined new comers. If a pair, and we get those droppings, all I can do is change the air in the room with one of those fans that exhaust and pull in fresh air.
But at least it isn't my living space.
Have you thought about putting out a dish of white vinegar to remove odors? Or those bags of lava rock that you can buy and hang in the room. They do work pretty well for getting rid of odors, and you just refresh them a couple of times a year by hanging outside in the sun for a day. I like those, and use them in closets and places like that.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I've had a bird before these two so I know candles and sprays are out of the picture, and that I can't use the scented wax you find just anywhere for the same reasons. Which is why I was wondering if unscented beeswax in a wax melter would be fine on the rare occasion I get gassed out, it wouldn't be going 24/7 or anything like that. It's electric as well; I understand that part of the issue is the soot an open flame puts out and what the wick itself is made of. I've never heard of using lava rocks, and about the only thing I have to remove odors is some charcoal, so I'll have to look into that too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What would unscented beeswax do?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would avoid any types of candles, heated cookware, sprays, etc. when I used to work with people with nasty habits who smelled I used to,put pickles up my nose. Maybe some variant of that would work if a bird has smelly poop.  would just avoid any aerosols or smoke because birds breathing mechanisms are really delicate.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

One more reason why pigeons are not the perfect inside pet.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> What would unscented beeswax do?


Beeswax naturally has a slight smell from whatever process the bees use to make it, some describe it as like honey. It was the only thing I could originally think of that doesn't use strange oils or chemicals that might harm the birds. They also say there are "health benefits" but I never buy into that. The other option I found is to simmer something like cinnamon sticks on the stove.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Is the smell that strong? Was wondering if pine cones dipped in cinnamon oil like they sell at Christmas or just dry potpourri would help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't use anything too strong a smell in the room with the birds. If you take her off the nest more often, and put her somewhere to poop, like a smaller cage or box or something, on a paper towel, then get rid of it, that would help. They are smelly because they hold it for so long. They don't want to soil where they nest. If you take her out of the cage, she should poop right away, so put her in a smaller cage or box till she does.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I had a hen with quite a few "stinky" nest poo's. I decided to give her a small piece of alfalfa tab daily, and the smell went away. I guess the chlorophyll did it...and th alfalfa was good for her too! *


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

And I have a sensitive nose too so I want to avoid anything strongly scented as well! Unfortunately, the female isn't too people-friendly and trying to move her around will just make her mad; I so much as look at her funny and she starts grunting.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She probably wasn't handled very well, or not handled at all. Some are like that and eventually get used to you and are okay. Some never get better. Maybe you should have taken more time in picking them out. Where did you get them?


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> She probably wasn't handled very well, or not handled at all. Some are like that and eventually get used to you and are okay. Some never get better. Maybe you should have taken more time in picking them out. Where did you get them?


She didn't seem that grouchy when we were at their aviary, could the change of scenery and suddenly handling have upset her this much? I can tell she focuses on my hands, and actually sometimes comes a little closer as long as they're out of sight. It was a local fellow just across town and he was wanting to sell off his fantails. It was a very clean aviary but I figured they hadn't been handled much.

Also Morgs25, I hate to mini-mod but it's better to make your own thread so you can get the answers you need there. "Hijacking" another's thread tends to be frowned upon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sundial said:


> She didn't seem that grouchy when we were at their aviary, could the change of scenery and suddenly handling have upset her this much? I can tell she focuses on my hands, and actually sometimes comes a little closer as long as they're out of sight. It was a local fellow just across town and he was wanting to sell off his fantails. It was a very clean aviary but I figured they hadn't been handled much.
> 
> Also Morgs25, I hate to mini-mod but it's better to make your own thread so you can get the answers you need there. "Hijacking" another's thread tends to be frowned upon.


Chop up some unsalted peanuts and add them to their feed. Not a lot. A small amount is fine, but too high in fat to give a lot at once. Just sprinkle some in. Eventually they will try them, and when they do, they will love them. Then you can offer some to them from your hand. Eventually, they should come to you for the treat. They also like hulled sunflower seed, but also high in fat, so just a small amount with those too.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

So Coffee dropped a wing feather, and it was pristine so I decided to keep it! ...And then I realized it had itty bitty little bugs living on it and inside the feather shaft. They're pale with a small black dot, are these lice or mites? I see Sevin dust can be useful for taking care of little pests like this on birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

New birds should always be dusted or sprayed. Probably feather lice.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You mentioned that the bird us grouchy. I would be too with bugs on me!  plus any pigeon will get territorial as it gets accustomed to its new home over time they are likely to be your best friends if you are patient and offer treats.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

That's an excellent point, though I'm sure I won't win any points grabbing and dusting the both of them. Do any of you collect the best molted feathers off your birds? I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in pigeon feather jewelry, they have that lovely contrast of black and white going on.

EDIT: Also, does a potential nest need to be big enough for BOTH of them? Because the male is trying to call the female over I think but I don't think they can both fit at once...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A nest is only large enough for one bird. Normally only one will sit in it at a time. They take turns sitting on eggs or babies. Although I do have a couple of pairs that like to snuggle in the nest together a lot.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

That's what I thought, but I didn't know if he was expecting her to get in the "nest" too. Also, they've been dusted and I rubbed it into their feathers a little bit so I'm hoping that helped.

Interesting thing happened with Cocoa! I think he vaguely understands that no, I'm not going to eat him when I grab him because at one point during the manhandling he actually sat on my wrist and I gave him little head scratches. I really wish I had some treats on hand to spoil him for being a good boy but I don't think they have the taste for the chopped peanuts I got them yet. I settled for putting some in their cage for putting up with the ordeal.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

An update: Cocoa has some kind of sneeze going on and Coffee laid her first egg! I swapped it for a fake and she took right to it. The emergency vet gave me some baytril (which everywhere else tells me doxycycline is more appropriate, but it cleared up his runny poops at least) that I've been treating them both with. As long as he doesn't appear to be getting any worse I'm going to use up the meds and go from there. They still don't really care for the peanuts?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Not always Doxy. Sometimes one works over the other. All depends. 
Have you been mixing the peanuts in with the feed? That way they will eventually try them. They don't know them as food, so you need to get them to try them. Are you chopping the peanuts?


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I gave them a little in their food but the pieces might have been too big, so last night I crushed them up a little more and gave them some after this morning's round of medicine. Unfortunately giving Coffee her dose seems to have scared her off the nest, but I'll leave the fake egg there just in case she accepts it again.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't medicate them while they are on the nest do you?


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I didn't know that mattered, she only JUST laid an egg last night and they'll be done with their medicine tomorrow morning. I have to give it to them using those needle-less syringes.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I just asked, that's all.
Is it liquid Baytril? I just like to hold the bird to make sure it goes way down the throat is all, to be sure they get it all, and it goes where it is supposed to.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Sorry, I didn't know if there might be some kind of issue with nesting/eggs and medicine I should be aware of. Yes, it's liquid. I have to wrap them up in a towel to give it to them and I'm glad I already had a rough idea of how to give them medicine, because they didn't give me a demonstration. Coffee tolerates it once she calms down but Cocoa is squirmy, I sometimes just put a drop on his tongue at a time and make sure he swallows. He's been sitting on the nest since this morning too, and got a little feisty when I got too close.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It doesn't taste good. They are unlikely to swallow it when given that way. Easier to just give it up and over the tongue, but can't do that when they are sitting on the nest.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

I went to a non-emergency vet with Cocoa a few days ago and did a gram stain, turns out he has cocci and strongyles. Got medicine to treat both and for both pigeons, and boy do they hate me for it! And a new, worrying symptom: Cocoa seems to be throwing up undigested seed (second time since yesterday) and I'm not sure if this is from the medicine or not. He was tested for something in the throat so I don't think he's got something else.

Is the male normally quiet while the female is on the nest? I miss Cocoa's morning coo's and I'm not sure if it's from him being sick or from being handled so much.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Have medicated pigeons several times. Yes they hate it but they forget too after the meds are all done. Hope Cocoa is all better soon. Am wondering what you are using to treat cocci and strongyles.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they will forget all about it. What meds are you using?


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

A small vial of white liquid called fenbendazole and a pink liquid called sulfa-trimethoprim. I separated Cocoa for the day because I wasn't sure if the sulfa-trimethoprim was making him sick or it was something else. I'm pretty sure it's the medicine, since he pukes within a short time of taking it and no other time. I'm going to try holding their food for a couple hours until they have their morning or evening dose and for a little while after.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well for starters fenbendazole is toxic to pigeons. A regular vet wouldn't know that, and many bird vets don't know that either. Still the same, it is toxic to pigeons. I would definitely stop it immediately. People have lost pigeons from using it.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Oh. I've already finished with that medicine since it was only for three days once a day (dosage on syringe is 0.05ml) however the sulfa is for a week, 0.21ml twice a day. I will ask him if he was aware of the toxicity, but reading through some other topics it sounds like they were prescribed a very low dose of the fenbendazole since I'm seeing dosages of 0.1ml and up for birds even lighter than they are.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Update: THIS poop just came out of Coffee. Any idea what kind of worms these are? Should I take the sample for the vet? I'm definitely letting him know she gave birth to some wiggly little things, and I'm hoping it's a sign the medicine's working.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sundial said:


> Oh. I've already finished with that medicine since it was only for three days once a day (dosage on syringe is 0.05ml) however the sulfa is for a week, 0.21ml twice a day. I will ask him if he was aware of the toxicity, but reading through some other topics it sounds like they were prescribed a very low dose of the fenbendazole since I'm seeing dosages of 0.1ml and up for birds even lighter than they are.


Toxic is toxic, and pigeons have died because of it, regardless of the dose.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Roundworms. No reason to take them to the vet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe the sulfa-trimethoprim is making him sick. Try giving it after feeding. 
That wasn't the best choice for cocci though. It does have some affect on cocci, but are basically an antibiotic, and will also kill of the good gut bacteria in the bird. Something like amprolium would have been better and more effective.
After treatment, you will have to give probiotics to replenish the good gut bacteria.
Canker also could cause vomiting, which they may well have, just from the stress of being in a new home, and other illness also. If worms were making him sick, then I would expect to see more than what is in the picture. Were there more worms? 
If you are going to keep pigeons, then you would really be better off trying to find a good bird vet. Regular vets are sometimes helpful, but miss a lot, and are not so up on the different drugs.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

The vet I found was an exotic vet and probably the closest I could find to a decent bird vet for my area; it's very rural and the only others I found honestly sounded like a bunch of interns. I held the food for about 30min after their medicine and so far there were no issues so I think it was an upset stomach(crop?), and there are only two worms that I could tell. I have never noticed actual worms in Cocoa's poop, who was the one I took to the vet, so seeing full-blown ones in Coffee's poop made me glad I got meds for both.

What kind of probiotics would you recommend? I saw this on the nutrition thread: "PROBIOTICS I recommend a human grade pro-biotic from the health food store" so I'm guessing I should avoid Walmart. I'm sure I can find a store like this somewhere. Is the "Solgar multi-dophilus powder" mentioned still a good choice?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well it's just that the vet doesn't know enough about pigeons. They will probably be helpful for some things, but I would check here about the different meds, or start reading on these things. They do sell probiotics for pigeons at online pigeon supplies also. As far as human grade, probably Skyking would have a better idea of the better ones.
Also, you don't normally see worms in a pigeons droppings until they are wormed. If you are supposed to repeat the worming, I would definitely use something else. I would ask the vet for Pyrantel Pamoate, which is very safe, and effective against round worms. Or buy Moxidectin Plus online. It will get rid of even tapeworm.


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## Sundial (Jun 15, 2016)

Well they seem to be ok after the medicine, but I've been noticing a growing bald spot on Coffee's lower neck. Now it doesn't look like the feathers have been straight up falling out, but rather the shaft gets mysteriously broken. I've checked her throat numerous times for any weird lumps or canker patches, so could this be the work of mites? I made their food bowls out of some tupperware from an idea I saw online to minimize spillage, but am now wondering if her slightly smaller size is causing her to accidentally wear the feathers away on the edges of it as she digs around. The missing patch is also exactly where she rests her beak, but I haven't seen anything like plucking.










This was taken a week ago, I will get an updated picture and do another throat check tomorrow. I am also thinking of changing their food back to pellets/crumbles to maybe minimize the scattering behavior and to make sure they're getting all their nutrients.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, it is possible that she is wearing away the feathers on the food container as she rubs up against it while eating.


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