# Pet Pigeons; how to get from here to there. Help/advice wanted.



## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

Hi. I'm an American living in Germany. I have two tame feral pigeons as pets currently. My husband is in the American Military, and it's looking like he will be sent to the war really soon. In the event that happens, we were going to send me back to the United States, Virginia, specifically.

I am very attached to my pet pigeons, and it looks like a lot of drama to import them from Germany to the US. I know there's a quarentine period of 30 days, and there are also 3 or 4 permits from customs required. I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. An easy solution would be to give my birds up to a pigeon sanctuary which I was informed about. Although, I wanted to see if it was possible to get my birds home with me with minimal stress.

A friend of mine suggested I find a German pigeon breeder who ships his birds to the US, and see if this individual would adopt my birds for a short time, and then ship my birds as if they were his, and I would pick up my birds at the quarentine facility (I believe the closest one to home is in NYC) once I was back in the US. Of course I would reinburse this individual for the shipping costs, and the cost of quarentine.

The idea is I would avoid the stress of trying to obtain permits while I'm trying to coordinate my move back home, alone.

Does anyone know of a loft which imports birds from a Germany breeder? And how could I contact this individual, or if they would be accepting of the idea? My birds are healthy as far as I can tell.

Thank you for your time.
-Judi


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Judi,

it would be wonderful if you could take your pijies with you back home.
Have you contacted Larry? He might know how and which is the easiest way to proceed.

Reti


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Judi - Sorry to hear your husband is being deployed though - I know that has got to be tough on everyone and I will keep him in my prayers that he remain safe. Bless him for what he's doing for our country!! I'm sure you'll be able to work out a way to get your piji's home to VA - hopefully with minimial stress. Do keep us posted on progress  Best of luck making all the arrangements for moving back to the states!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I have sent an e-mail to Larry, hopefully he will be on soon.

I hope you can take your beloved pet birds with you, as I understand what you mean having a few of my own. If not, hopefully we can help you find them a good home.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Where are the experts on international pigeon shipping?*

Well folks,

It looks as though I am going in circles today. Checked my email, saw one from Judy, suggested she start a thread here on this.

My email reply to her:



> Since I'm not involved in racing or show pigeons, I don't know many details.
> 
> Why don't you post this on Pigeon Talk, under "General Discussions" and "Pigeons for Sport"?
> 
> ...


Checked next email, from Treesa!, asking me to help. 

So, maybe as a group effort, we can get these birds across the ocean with man-made, mechanical wings.

I'll see what I can find out on this end.

From past experience in import/export years ago, international shipping documents are in English. There may be other languages involved, with medical papers, permits, and such, but the documentation needed for shipping has to be in English.

I have also suggested to Judy that her pigeons could be placed with Christa G. in Germany, or with Myriam of LaPalomaTriste (of PT), in Belgium.

Plan to check out health and welfare status of legless pigeon I saw a week ago downtown in Cologne. Maybe another prospective tenant for Christa. We have a local handicapped pigeon with use of one leg, *Swingleg*, who "swims" with her left leg while slowly hopping, who has done quite well on the streets the past two years. 

Larry


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*still looking around.*

I just got Larry's email. I'm kinda here and there today, cleaning and what not. 
So, yeah, I was trying to google-search for lofts which import some of their birds. My mad-skills at google seem to be off today, as I was just finding dead ends. I was sorta hoping there would be a PT member who'd purchased some stock from over here. I've attempted to google search in German, and I just get more and more frustrated. It's a weird feeling that there could be someone to help me just a town away who routinley ships their birds out, but the language barrier prevents me from figuring it out. I only know a couple people who speak German. One is my (now) former boss, who is out on leave until after I even leave this area, and there's another lady who worked in the same system as myself who is a Local National, but she is also on vacation for a while.

As I am no longer working, it frees up a lot of my brain space which was taken over by stress. I plan on trying to call the US Fish and Wildlife services to see if they can break everything down for me, Barney-style. Maybe give me a series of steps which need to be done in a certain order. I'm looking at all of the importing regulations, and from what I can see, pigeons count as poultry, not pets (even if they are just pets) on the bright side, Quarentine is only 3.50$ per day, per bird, which is reasonable.

So, yeah...still feeling overwhelmed, trying to figure this out, but alas, I need to go back to cleaning.

If anyone can think of a loft which imports, toss the website at me, and I can begin the attack of emails.

Should I start a thread in the "racing/show pigeons" section? I think someone mentioned it.

Thank you very much
-Judi


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Judy,

I have contacted James Bruno by phone at petride.com (they specialize in pet transport, mostly within the U.S., and from the U.S. to other countries, rather than importing from other countries to the U.S.), at (718) 752-1767 ext. 311.

Cost would be about $1000 for two pigeons in one crate. 

You would probably take the pigeons to the Frankfurt airport. He will inform himself of details concerning forms, destination airport, etc., when you contact him.

Their main specialty is pet taxi service in the New York city area. *He is not presently informed *about U.S. customs requirements, U.S. quarantine times, etc. He was very friendly, and perhaps may be of assistance for what you need.

Their website: 

http://petride.com/contact.htm

Will research further.

Larry


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## kippermom (Jan 11, 2006)

On the lighter side...

While I do not recommend it, did not know about it at the time and do not condone it..my teenage daughter brought a young iguana back on an airliner from mexico...hidden in her shirt. The plan was failesafe in her mind, until there was an unexpected layover and the lizard became impatient. (Something only a teenager would think to try!) 

Picturing someone attempting this with a pair of feral pigeons creates visions which make the $1,000 shipping fee seem quite reasonable. 

Good luck!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Judy,

Came across this export/import PDF document for vets, for shipping racing pigeons from European Union to Hungary. (In three languages: Hungarian, English, German).

Similar restrictions would probably apply for your pigeons.

Excerpts: (I include some German, since you will probably encounter some of it in the documents). 



> -This certificate is for veterinary purposes only. A seperate certificate must be provided for each consignment. The original of the certificate must accompany the consignment to its final destination.
> 
> -for pigeons for competitions or exhibitions from the European Union intended for consignment to Hungary
> 
> ...


http://albatros-race.mindwerk.info/pics/download/1_1085425493/Gesundheiszeugnis_dreisprachig.pdf

This is only a sample of a basic animal health certificate _(TIER GESUNDHEITSZEUGNIS)_.

I can check with the _Taubenklinik Essen_, since they probably are involved in international shipping health documents for pigeons.
It seems that you will have to have your pigeons inoculated against PMV, and then have a waiting period before shipment. 


Larry


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

You may want to contact an importer in the states to find all the information you need..
John Nelson is one of the most respected and a very honest individual that imports pigeons from all over the world..
Here is a usurp from a conversation on another group 2 weeks ago...
Read very carefully what he says about vaccinations prior to shipping....
(quote)
"I have a group of pigeons from Turkey, Germany and Holland coming in a few weeks
through Canada. I have a group of birds waiting for importation from South
Africa and details need to be honed up a bit before importing. Pigeons being
imported directly to the USA USDA APHIS (United States Department of Agriculture
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services) quarantine facilities here in the
US must state on the import papers that the pigeons have not been vaccinated. 
This is a huge problem now since any pigeon going to a show in Europe must show
the certification that all the pigeons of that said fancier were vaccinated for
PMV-1 by a vet. They recently killed the entire group of pigeons in a Miami
quarantine station because some tested positive for being vaccinated. Last
month a group of 197 racing pigeons in a New York quarantine facility tested
positive for being vaccinated are were due to be destroyed. A deal was worked
out and they were allowed to leave the US and be forwarded to a Mexican
quarantine station. The group of birds in Miami were not allowed to leave
unfortunately. The birds are swabbed and the tests are completed at the
University of Iowa. I spoke with the quarantine facility in New York canceling
my reservation for the South African birds and they said all the pigeon
importations to New York and Miami quarantine facilities have been canceled.
If you need help in getting pigeons from the United States to Pakistan I can
look into the procedures and flight routing. The flight will be expensive I
will tell you that up front."
Kind Regards,
John E Nelson
Saint Joseph, Michigan USA


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

More info:

*UPS* does not accept any birds for shipping.

------

*Delta Airlines*

http://www.delta.com/planning_reser...ravel_information/domestic_international_pet/



> Check with the *CDC* about the importation of pets into the United States.
> Check with *APHIS* about international animal export regulations.


Delta has other requirements, such as certain forms, bringing the animal to the airport facility four hours before departure, allowing a certain number of hours for plane changes, which you shouldn't have much trouble with if the pigeons go from Frankfurt, Germany direct to New York. Also restrictions apply to transport cages.



> Pets traveling with passengers:
> 800-221-1212 for flights within the United States
> 800-241-4141 for international flights
> Pets traveling unescorted:
> ...


http://www.delta.com/planning_reser...ormation/domestic_international_pet/index.jsp

------

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal.htm

*CDC Center for Disease Control*



> Importation of Pets, Other Animals, and Animal Products into the United States
> 
> CDC regulations govern the importation of dogs, cats, turtles, monkeys, other animals, and animal products capable of causing human disease. Requirements for the importation of the most common pets are described below. Pets taken out of the United States are subject upon return, to the same regulations as those entering for the first time.
> 
> The CDC does not require general certificates of health for pets for entry into the United States. However, health certificates may be required for entry into some states, or may be required by airlines for pets. You should check with officials in your state of destination and with your airline prior to your travel date.





> OTHER PERMITS:
> 
> U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service permits are required for certain live animals, including bats. Please call 1-800-344-WILD for further information (www.fws.gov/).


-------

*APHIS*

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/ncie/importing.html


> How to Obtain an USDA Import Permit and Reserve Space at a Quarantine Center
> 
> All non-U.S. origin pet birds imported into the United States (except from Canada)* are required to be quarantined for 30 days in a USDA animal import quarantine facility at the owner's expense. A reservation at the facility must be made in advance by contacting the USDA port veterinarian at one of the special ports-of-entry listed below. A cost estimate for the quarantine will be provided at that time. Once the reservation is made and payment is received in full for all quarantine services, the animal import quarantine facility will issue a USDA import permit (VS Form17-129). This permit must accompany the bird while in transit.
> 
> The USDA defines pet birds as those that are imported for personal pleasure of their individual owners and are not intended for resale.





> USDA Quarantine Centers and Ports of Entry
> 
> All non-U.S. origin pet birds must enter the country and undergo quarantine at one of the following import quarantine facilities. These are the only ports of entry available for importing non-U.S. origin pet birds.
> 
> ...





> Exporting Country Veterinary Health Certificate Requirements
> 
> A veterinary health certificate is required for all pet birds imported into the United States.
> The certificate must:
> ...



Hope this helps a bit.

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Regarding PMV vaccination*

Thanks, RoyaltyPigeon,

for the info on PMV vaccination. My last post was composed and posted before I saw your post. This throws another light on the matter.

I don't think Judy's pigeons have been vaccinated for PMV yet.

One vet I went to several years ago vaccinated our male rescued pigeon *Pidgiepoo* with what he called a homeopathic treament. I do not know if this was a vaccination in the true sense of the word (using a weakened or dead form of the PMV virus), or if it was more of an immune system boost. There was a slight problem in translating.

A vaccination would show them positive for the virus, and one could not determine if the positive response was either 
(1) from the innoculation with the dead or incapacitated virus to give them immunization from the live virus, or 
(2) from an actually live, ongoing infection. 

That is how I understand it.

Larry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I hope all goes well and thanks to everyone putting in all the effort; Larry, you as always are especially helpful! Judi, I hope it works out okay, and that your husband jas a safe and easy assignment.


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## horsesgot6 (May 30, 2007)

Well I can't Be Any Help With the thread. But Just Wanted To Say I So Hope All Works out And Your babys can Come Home With You. What Part Of VA you Moving To I'm From A Little Town Called Middlebrook. Well Good Luck And I'll Keep you And Your Babys In My Thougths Until They Make It Home.


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*1000 dollars?*

Gosh....ok, if i read everything correctly, one guy says it'll cost 1000 dollars to get the animals from here to there, but knows nothing on the permits, regulations, etc, which have other costs to them.

Then another post said that apparently there's not accepting pigeons at the NYC port?

This seems to not look very good. I'm concerned about money at this point. I wasn't before...I actually thought I'd have alot of time to plan this move back to the states. But an entire year and a half has been taken from me.... and many unexpected expensises have popped up. I don't think i have that kind of money to spare on this project.

Hmm...troubling

-Judi


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Judi,

The guy who would charge $1000 fee covers them handling a lot of the details, and I am not sure if they are aware of all the details for importing into U.S. He is probably in a position to ask questions of people he knows, and find out and understand the answers more readily than someone not experienced in the shipping business, and I think he would probably earn his fee. The $1000 I don't think would include fees paid to the government and the vet, etc. I gave him (James Bruno) my phone number, and can contact him next week when he will probably know more. Even if you don't want to spend that much, at least you and we will have a clearer picture about the shipping.

If you do more of the preparations yourself, if would possibly cost less. After working in the import/export business for six years, I know there are a lot of details to this stuff which is easy for an experienced person to do. Most of the things are not that hard to do. You just have to know what they are. And that probably takes a bit of time.

Maybe in the next few days some members who have shipped pigeons to the U.S. from Europe before will have some good news for you.

Larry


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

judifur said:


> Gosh....ok, if i read everything correctly, one guy says it'll cost 1000 dollars to get the animals from here to there, but knows nothing on the permits, regulations, etc, which have other costs to them.
> 
> Then another post said that apparently there's not accepting pigeons at the NYC port?
> 
> ...


 Judi,,
I can try an get you in contact with John Nelson,,, this is something he does every year... There is a good chance he is already in Germany getting breeds together for import to the states... He might be able to either walk you thru the steps,,, or possibly bring your birds along with his...
Again,, John will be honest with you,, he will tell you exactly what the process intails and let you make the decision once you have all the details..
If John is already in Germany,, I'm not sure he will answer my e-mail,, but,, I can still try..
Gary H.


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*feeling a bit better.*

Okay, to reply to Larry and Royalty.
First to Larry, if the gentleman is only charging 1000 dollars, and that's it, and he's trying to figure out all of the drama, I think I could go for it. When it starts getting more than that I start to panic.

Then Royalty, I would love to talk to this John fellow if he's available.

I'm feeling a little less...worried, so to speak. 

I think i have 1000 dollars I could spare. I'll have to see. Selling my bucket of bolts of a car will get me close to that.

I shall email this pet carrier guy now, I forgot to last night.

Thank you for everything

-Judi


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

Larry,,,
Let me know if you got my Instant message..
John needs this lady's e-mail address asap...
He is having some birds imported from germany on the 21'st of this month..
I don't know all the deatails of how long things take from beginning of paperwork to end,, but I would assume,, we need to hustle..
Please let me know what else I can do..
Gary H.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Gary,

I have sent Judy/Judifer and John Nelson each other's email address, by email, in case they haven't checked on PT yet.

Thanks,

Larry


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*ahh, this is the thing though.*

the 21st is too soon, and i won't be in the US and settled within 30 days to pick up my birds from quarentine. I would be here, in limbo while the Army figures out what exactly they are doing with my husband's (and there-for my) life.

You see, I'm not leaving right away. there's a small chance that my husband wont be deployed (very small) and we'll live here in Germany for about another year, (then i'll deal with this all over again) I am trying to prepare for the likely scenario.

But if anyone knows anything about the military, there's alot of paperwork, waiting, and changes. I was also vauge on the details of dates because of OPSEC stupidness they got us brainwashed into ("the enemy is watching" so says the TV). I'm positive that i will be hanging out here for a while still. (a while being at least a month)

I don't want to throw out the details of my life, and my husband's too much, but we're in the complicated process of a PCS move due to our installation closing down, so my husband's being re-assigned to a base south of us, and we won't know anything positive about deployment until he officially walks into his new chain of command. and even then paperwork changes so quickly. They could tell him he'll be getting on a plane next week, then say "oh, just kidding, we meant next month." then "Oh, nevermind, you're staying behind on rear-detachment, you'll be here the whole time."

The point I'm trying to make is I won't know for certain what's going on until I see my husband packing bags with orders in his hands. I don't particularly like waiting for the army to decide how my life is going to run, but here I am. So, already planned imports won't work. I'm kinda looking for things that i can mesh into when the time comes, I can't deal with anything solid. Just typing that sentence makes me sad because I really do crave solidness, structure, and secure plans. Most people do.

Enough of my rant. I do appriciate the help. Larry sent me John's email address, perhaps he can help me through the process. I do not think I will use the pet movers, as they are not taking care of the paperwork involved, which is what i thought I would be paying for. Any old fool can ship a bird crate on a plane, and it doesn't cost no 1000 dollars to do it neither.

So with that, goodnight folks
-Judi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Judy
I've been following this thread, but haven't posted, but thought I'd throw in my two cents for what it's worth. I was married to two military men and worked on a military installation for 15 years, so I know all to well about the "hurry up and wait".............and I'm sure it's probably worse now than it was back then.
I personally, if I was you, would make some kind of definite arrangements for this bird if it has to be left behind. Make a plan that is failproof in every way. Then, if it works out that you can take the bird with you, that's great, but if works out that you CAN'T and you haven't made plans for him if he's to stay, then there's another "thing" for you to have to deal with. 
Maybe it would be best to get all the particulars for getting him to this country, find someone who would be willing to keep him until you get back stateside and settled down and THEN have him sent to you. Get all the facts on what has to be done and then don't worry about it until you need to. 
OR.........maybe it would be possible to ship the bird here to the states ASAP and then get him when you get stateside. He could be shipped to you from anywhere in the US and we've got a few members in the Eastern US and I'm willing to bet that someone would agree to care for your baby until you get here. 
Like I said, just my two cents on the situation. I think that you can get the bird over here. It's just "getting it done" when you don't really know where to start that's tricky. I wish you good luck.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Renee, Judy, and others,

I can pick the pigeons up from Judy without too much trouble to her.

Then I could keep them for a bit, or keep them with Christa, until Judy wanted them shipped.

I could have them checked at the Taubenklinik Essen for health certificates and such or whatever. There would be some costs involved, but they would probably be reasonable.

Then they could be shipped to the U.S. quarantine facility near JFK airport in New York. James Bruno of the pet shipping company was informed that the daily quarantine facility fee was $3.50 per bird per day, for a period of 30 days. (He didn't know if that applied specifically to pet birds or specifically to poultry or to just all birds in general).

Would keep me rather busy for a while, but the situation can be handled. 

The step to take at this point, in my opinion, is to get a short summary from John Nelson about the particulars involved in shipping pigeons from Germany to the U.S. Perhaps he will have some time to spare when he returns to the U.S., if not sooner. 

I'm not volunteering to take over the whole project, unless absolutely necessary, but am willing to help out where practical.

I am (reasonably) prepared to pick them up from her on short notice and take them to an aviary where they can live a good life, should they _have_ to stay in Germany because of some unforeseen complication.

Larry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Larry, you are a good man. I know Judy appreciates all that you are doing for her and her pigeons and it is a learning process for all of us here on the forum.


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*laughter for chickens....*

Sorry, random title, didn't know what else to put. 5 points to anyone who knows the sci-fi movie where they say that in russian at a point  (you'll also get on my "cool person" list) I'll give you a hint, my birds; Kaylee and Malcolm are named after characters in the movie. 

annnyway. pigeons.

To lovebirds: you are right, I do need a failsafe, and I have one. If I cannot make any of this work, Larry has told me he can take my birds to a re-habber for me. That is what i will do when all other options are exausted.

I have been thinking carefully about many angles. I did recieve an email from John, and there seems to be hope. Now, Lovebirds had suggested that maybe someone in the US could baby-sit my birdies untill I get home. That is something I didn't even consider. If push comes to shove, I will harass my family first, then explore what was said about a PT member looking after them. I just don't want to be a burden. I already have my mother-in-law looking after our tortise, Chai, who we didn't ship over here because of the same drama. Then I gotta go and get pigeons, lol. 

Anyway, I am waiting on word from John. His fist email to me stated that on my own, getting everything done (paperwork, permits, shipping) for my two birds will cost about 2000 dollars. But he had a -far- more reasonable figure for me if I choose to accept his help. It's looking like I will if i can get someone stateside to babysit if need-be.

Alright, i need to go, thank you again.
-Judi


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## judifur (Apr 27, 2007)

*Update.*

As of this time yesterday, I've officially started making plans to get my birds to the US with John Nelson.

As the exporter of John's Pigeons is 2-3 hours north, in Koln, Larry is meeting me sorta half-way to pick up my birds soon.

John alaready said he would look after my birds if I cannot find someone to in the off chance that my husband's plans change, and I remain in Germany the remainder of this tour. (for a year) I'm pretty sure I'm going home though.

I am checking first if my mother-in-law will bird sit for me. Although Larry suggested I find someone more experienced with pigeons in case they get sick.

Does anyone know of any pigeon enthusiasts in VA (or the nothern part of North Carolina) who would be willing to look after Kaylee and Malcolm for me (with the small chance that it could be potentially up to a year of bird sitting =\)

My final destination when I get to the US is Virginia Beach. That wont change. So, someone a reasonable commute from VA Beach might be simpler, but I supposed mailing them could be an option.

I'm not sure if I'm making sence. It would be easier for me if my mother-in-law looked after them, but I do worry the move could stress them, and she could potentially deal with sick birds.

At any rate, what are some good things to give my birds before their journey?

-Judi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

judifur said:


> At any rate, what are some good things to give my birds before their journey?
> 
> -Judi


A garlic cap each day for a week , then a day or two later, probiotic cap.


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Judy
> I was married to two military men and worked on a military installation for 15 years,


 Is that legal?  

Anywho, Judy I am located just north of VB VA. About an hours drive. I would be happy to Pigeon sit for you if you can figure out how to get the birds to me.


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## clhbubba (Jan 11, 2008)

*shipping information*

I used to live in Germany and there is a great pet shipping company called Pet Air. They have a website(www.petair.de).It's in German and English just click on the American flag for english. Maybe they would offer some help, I don't know. I do know we were in Italy after Germany and acquired several street dogs and cats and they helped us ship them to the states and were a great help. Maybe they'll have an avenue for you with the pigeons. Good luck. Chris


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jack1747 said:


> *Is that legal?*
> 
> Anywho, Judy I am located just north of VB VA. About an hours drive. I would be happy to Pigeon sit for you if you can figure out how to get the birds to me.



Very funny.........LOL........believe me, one of you guys is all I can handle at once!!!  and sometimes THAT'S too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

judifur said:


> As of this time yesterday, I've officially started making plans to get my birds to the US with John Nelson.


Judi - this is great news!! I am really keeping my fingers crossed and sending positive wishes for a happy ending to their journey (i.e., settling down with you in VB -- healthy and happy). I'm in central NJ so not sure I can be of any help, but if I can please let me know.

Best wishes and God's speed to your husband (sounds like he is getting deployed).

Larry - you're awesome for all this assistance and work!


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## horsesgot6 (May 30, 2007)

I'm So Glad You Will Be bring Your Babys to VA. I'm Sure If your Mother in law Can't care For Them We can Find Someone To Foster Them Until You Get Back To The States. You can Also Give Your Mother In Law This Website If There Should Ever Be A Problem or She Just needs Some Info Everyone here can Help.


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