# Ice Pigeon Genetics ???



## redleg23

I have been looking for some ice colored homers. The only person I know that had them, no longer raises pigeons. So, I was curious if anyone has ever done a cross with a clean legged ice - homer? I raise barless blue homers and would be thrilled to locate a barless ice bird. I'm not sure how the ice color, genetically will work. Any thoughts???


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## MaryOfExeter

Same here. I actually plan on starting that project as soon as I get some Ice colored pigeons, whether they be Damascenes, Ice Pigeons, or Swiss Crescents.
Ice is a recessive gene. Birds split for Ice do show a little bit of lightening to the feathers. But nothing like homozygous/pure Ice.


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## redleg23

Hey Becky, have you ever talked to Danny Humphrey? He lives in Kingston, NC. I know he raises Ice pigeons. Are you also looking for a barless ice?


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## MaryOfExeter

Yes. I'm actually sending birds to him Monday, LOL. But they are out of my price range right now. So as soon as I can afford to buy some, I'll start my project.

I've always wanted Ice Pigeons anyway. I like the muffed kind the best. I think it would be very interesting to have 3 pairs of Ice birds to mix into the homers. 
1st pair: Spangled/White bar Ice Pigeons (perhaps a barless too, although I don't even have barless homers to begin with)
2nd pair: Yellow Crescent cock and Red Crescent hen. The cock's babies will be sex-linked that way because of the dilute  And if I mate the hen to a blue cockbird (which is very likely as most of my birds are blue), then it will also be sex-linked.
3rd pair: Barred Damascenes.

It'd be neat to see if one of the breeds made a better crossing than the other. It also helps prevent inbreeding and gives a lot of young in a generation to test.


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## MaryOfExeter

redleg23 said:


> Hey Becky, have you ever talked to Danny Humphrey? He lives in Kingston, NC. I know he raises Ice pigeons. Are you also looking for a barless ice?


Danny Joe has barless ice pigeons by the way.


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## indigobob

redleg23 said:


> I have been looking for some ice colored homers. The only person I know that had them, no longer raises pigeons. So, I was curious if anyone has ever done a cross with a clean legged ice - homer? I raise barless blue homers and would be thrilled to locate a barless ice bird. I'm not sure how the ice color, genetically will work. Any thoughts???


Redleg,
Ice is a partial dominant, non sex-linked gene with a variable expression in F1 crosses.
The two birds below are F1 crosses from a blue chequered, clean-leg Ice Pigeon and a blue bar Roller.


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## redleg23

Indigobob, Thanks for the genetic knowledge. What are your personal plans for the ice color? Will you cross these birds back to an ice pigeon? They look great with just the F1 cross!!! Are you hoping to end with an ice color that will roll?


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## redleg23

Becky, please let me know, when you are able to start any of those, color projects!! I've never purchased birds from Danny Joe, I have his DVD explaining all his breeds. He seems like a good guy.


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## redleg23

Being that the ice color is partially dominant, the next consideration for me is the conformation. I wonder how many generations it would take... LOL


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## MaryOfExeter

I already have my breeding plans set up through F6. Hopefully they will be able to fly by then, LOL. I plan to race them though, not just fly them from here and there. A lot of guys will think I'm crazy for "wasting my time playing with colors". But if I want to play with them, by God I'll play with'em! 

The F1 kids are so pretty! The first one looks a lot like an Ice Pigeon, but the second one...I'd be fooled into thinking it was a pure roller!


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## redleg23

Wow, I wasn't thinking about racing. I raise rare colors and there is a HUGE difference between the colors and the racers. I don't think your crazy for the ultimate goal of racing. I'm sure with enough selective breeding... they'll race. LOL , I might need a copy of those BREEDING PLANS, though!!


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## indigobob

redleg23 said:


> Indigobob, Thanks for the genetic knowledge. What are your personal plans for the ice color? Will you cross these birds back to an ice pigeon? They look great with just the F1 cross!!! Are you hoping to end with an ice color that will roll?


redleg, the hen didn't lay any eggs! The cock was paired to another sibling but only a few young were bred. The colour was variable but all were darker than their parents, what was interesting was that a barless youngster was produced! Unfortunately due to a change in circumstances I was unable to take the project further than the F2 stage.

Below is the Ice Pigeon cock - toy stencil chequer heterozygous for bar.


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## MaryOfExeter

James Turner is working on getting Ice into good quality rollers. So if you want to pick the project back up, he's the guy to get a hold of


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## spirit wings

Those are beautful..............................................................................!


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## indigobob

MaryOfExeter said:


> James Turner is working on getting Ice into good quality rollers. So if you want to pick the project back up, he's the guy to get a hold of


I have seen photographs of his Ice Rollers, Becky, unfortunately there is approximately 3,000 miles of water between us!


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## MaryOfExeter

Holy cow I just noticed you were in the UK. Sorry  I kept thinking you were over here!


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## Feathered Dragons

MaryOfExeter said:


> Yes. I'm actually sending birds to him Monday, LOL. But they are out of my price range right now. So as soon as I can afford to buy some, I'll start my project.
> 
> I've always wanted Ice Pigeons anyway. I like the muffed kind the best. I think it would be very interesting to have 3 pairs of Ice birds to mix into the homers.
> 1st pair: Spangled/White bar Ice Pigeons (perhaps a barless too, although I don't even have barless homers to begin with)
> 2nd pair: Yellow Crescent cock and Red Crescent hen. The cock's babies will be sex-linked that way because of the dilute  And if I mate the hen to a blue cockbird (which is very likely as most of my birds are blue), then it will also be sex-linked.
> 3rd pair: Barred Damascenes.
> 
> It'd be neat to see if one of the breeds made a better crossing than the other. It also helps prevent inbreeding and gives a lot of young in a generation to test.


Depending how my YB barless do this year, I'd be willing to send you one to breed to or from if you want. I would rather get one to you that has good homing ability and not that its just barless.


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## MaryOfExeter

That would be great! I'm going to be able to get a couple Ice pigeons whenever I finally make it down there to see Danny Joe. We'll make a little vacation out of it  Then I can breed one to your bird and send you a couple kids. They'd be split for barless and Ice. Then you'll have a little something to start your project off with too. So putting them with more of your barless birds, you'd get:
50% barless, 50% whatever other pattern but carrying barless.
And half of all of those will be split for Ice too, like indigobob's rollers. I know that makes it sound like a recessive gene but it's a pain to keep saying "heterozygous Ice" and not everyone connects "het" with heterozygous, LOL. But you get my drift


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## Feathered Dragons

What would you be looking for, cock or hen?


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## george simon

indigobob said:


> Redleg,
> Ice is a partial dominant, non sex-linked gene with a variable expression in F1 crosses.
> The two birds below are F1 crosses from a blue chequered, clean-leg Ice Pigeon and a blue bar Roller.


*I HAVE ITALIAN OWLS and ice is one of the colors in the breed .I have mated ice to blue bars and one of the things that I am seeing is in the young I seem to get bars that that looks like a very light bronze, which I see in the first photo. Are you getting this in more of your young. It also seens to be only the young cocks. But I will have to breed a few more to see if this might hold true. I plan on using my italian owls to put ice into homers. * GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter

I thought the bronzing was from the toy stencil.


mcox, it doesn't matter to me  Although I have a ton of cockbirds, so a hen would be nice. But genetically, it doesn't make a difference as none of this is sex-linked.
Hmmm. I just noticed I got you confused with redleg at first about the ice project. But if you do want to start the project with us, then my offer still stands of course  The least I could do in return for the barless bird.


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