# Poorly pigeon in my garden



## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi all

We noticed a pigeon in our garden yesterday, and it's still here.

Poor fella is right up the corner in between the house and the fence, and stays at night 

We've named her Minnie

We've fed and watered her but she poo's greeny watery which I have read around tonight meaning dehydrated. 

I want to help her, is she saveable??

She lets us get right up close, we've always fed the pigeons but this is a new one.

I've read heating up a sock with rice in for warmth. I hope she survives the night. I'm worried about cats and foxes. Tomorrow what can i do ... She cant come in the house but we'll look after her outside.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks for noticing this bird.
If it lets you get right up to it, it is probably ill.
In order to do anything, the pigeon will have to be caught and brought inside.
In the first instance, it needs to be hydrated & kept warm and quiet, which you cannot really do outside.
If you can catch it and even keep it in a small box or pet carrier for the time being, with a heating pad covered with a towel.
It needs hydrated with tepid water, to which sould be added a pinch of salt & a little sugar.
There may be other things wrong with it, but its body will be using up valuable resourses to keep it warm so it will be unable to fight whatever else is wrong.
Important first steps are 1 catch, 2 heat, 3 hydrate & 4 quiet.
Whatever else that is possibly wrong, is not contageous to humans or other animals (just use normal hygene etiquette).
Once the important steps are done, others will be along with more questions and hopefully answers and advice.
Meantime, what is your location, and once you catch the bird, can you post up some pics of it and its recent poops which will also help possible diagnosis.


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks

I'm gonna wait until the morning as it'll scare the hell out of him at night and i need to find a box or something

Sutton Coldfield UK


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The best time to catch the bird is at night because it won't be able see well ...not to mention the bird is at risk from night time predators.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Also, temperatures outside are a lot cooler at night so it really needs the heat.

I have to go out for a few hours, but i'm sure others will be along to give you any more help meantime.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

OMGosh,

Just come in and seen this,

I live in Sutton Coldfield, would like to help if I can.

I'll send you my Contact details in a Private Message so you can phone me tomorrow if you need help.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Obviously can't help tonight as unfortunately just come back from neighbours house and couldn't drive now as would be illegal. 

So as Quazar has said, please try and get it inside and warm.
It's probably a Woodie if you're around here, so keep it covered in the dark as it will be more spooked than if it was a feral.

I'm out at certain times tomorrow but am willing to come and fetch it if you can take care of it for the night.
A large box or even a washing basket turned upside down with a towel over it and possibly a warm water bottle with a towel on top for it to sit on to keep it warm indoors.
It will be a great risk outside in the night.

Janet


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Wow this site is amazing, you all care so much! Thanks

Minnie is in a walkers crisps box and is currently enjoying perching on a hot water bottle with a towel wrapped over!!


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Now should i be giving some drink? like a water, salt and sugar that i've seen mentioned?

These are his poo:


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Made him the water, sugar and salt solution to drink.

Think he's quite happy at the mo. 

He's had a green poo in the box, I will take a photo once i get back, need to pop out

I've called amyable and left a text and VM


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

He's loving the hot water bottle .... and he's been drinking and had a good seed feed!!


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Oh, that's wonderful news! Please keep us updated!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Glad you got this one inside.
good to hear its been drinking and eating.
I'm sure Janet will be in contact with you soon.
Its difficult to see the poops properly from the pic.
If you could maybe line the box with white paper towels & get another pic then the poop experts will be able to give more advice. 
It may just be dehydration or hungry, but there could be some underlying reason also.
Is there any sign of any other injury ?


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Janet's been and collected her, I'm glad she'll be looked after well. What a lovely lady Janet is by the way. It's an amazing internet community you have here.

Minnie had perked up alot, by when Janet got here, unrecognisable from the bird who i got in at 7am. 

Janet seemed to think she'll be ok on quick inspection.

I'll miss minnie, really bonded with her last two days!! I wish i went to find info off Google on Saturday now, but so glad i found you all, thanks so much. I never expected her to stay in the garden you see. Survived two nights, what a warrior, i think she didnt know how to find her own food and was hungry.

Janet's kindly agreed to keep me informed how she's doing, and i'll be delighted to receive updates because i'll be thinking of the pigeon non stop now!!

Minnie had a good feed and drink and is now in a much better place where she'll get the expert nursing. She was such a good looking thing.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is wonderful news, Janet will take excellent care of Minnie. 

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

hopalong said:


> She was such a good looking thing.


LOL, thought you meant me for a minute.

Well I fell in love immediately I saw Minnie. Very docile and used to being handled I'd say. She's banded but not a racer.
I'll post another picture later as I'd liked to know what sort of pigeon she is.

Anyway she had obviously improved by being warmed and re-hydrated by Andy, so well done there.
She's sitting looking out of my window at the moment. Doesn't seem injured and although has started flapping her wings, hasn't actually flown yet. Maybe just tired and hungry.

She has a phone number band on which is a local number to Andy (Hopalong).
I'm going to keep her for a couple of days first to check how she is and then call and check the owner out. I think she's got lost while out for some excercise possibly, but if he doesn't want her she'll be welcome to join my crowd as I have another couple quite like her.

So well done to Andy for helping her out and I'll let you know what happens next.

Janet


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

In the window  Being nosey is she!!? When you got her out in my house we noticed she was having a good look around! 

She's come so far in just a few hours!

She loved that hot water bottle, everytime we popped to have a look she was pearched on it, amazing given she was the bird up on the slabs against the wall and fence! We havent seen her open her wings once before you came today, so hopefully a bit of seed inside her is getting her back on track...

So glad she isnt outside anymore, we wondered was it normal to begin with, thought she may have just got tired mid-flight somewhere!! 

Lovely to meet you Janet, I was sad to see her go, but delighted we found someone who knows how to get her right.



By the way everyone I keep refuring to her as her, beacuse we named her Minnie, but we have no idea how to tell the sex of a pigeon, so just guessed!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi Andy, Thats great news, Glad everythings working out.
She/He maybe just lost or indeed a pet whos got out by accident, cant forage for itself and just needs food water and re-couperation rest for a little while.
She/He's in good hands with Janet
Thanks again for helping this little one.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Excellent...good job, Andy ! You saved Minnie's life, for sure.

And...wow....Hopalong is actually a* place* ?


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Hopalong a place? Never ............ really!!? My nickname on here is after a long term pigeon visitor to our garden!!

Jaye, I never saved Minnie's life, this forum did. I was reading so much on text sites, but here was so clear, consise and helpul. Janet was a star, coming to get her. She will ensure everything is done that can get Minnie back to health, if it's going to happen, Janet will do the right things to rehabilitate her. If it's not to be, it's not to be but she'll now have the best care back to good health!

I'm so happy i came on here last night, the thought of Minnie outside, cold, scared was horrible!! She'll be treated like a queen i'm sure tonight


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Have had to be out for a while so left Minnie set up safely in a corner with food and water. She's drinking and eating a lot, I suppose catching up.

Her poops aren't good though, very runny and green so will give her some pro-biotics to see if we can get some improvement. She is dozing a bit aswell, sitting and her eyes keeping closing.

Certainly won't be letting her go back anywhere until I'm sure she's ok.

Just had a little cuddle with her, she's just such a little munchkin. 
(mind you I have no idea either whether she's male/female either).
Am having trouble posting a picture at the mo, will try again later.

Janet


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Jaye said:


> And...wow....Hopalong is actually a* place* ?


LOL, There is actually a Place called Hopalong, for some reason I thought it would be in Australia, but no, its in Clifton Forge VA


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, I thought I'd just update Andy as to how Minnie is today.

'She' is doing ok. In fact she's getting more lively and isn't as docile now, she tries to scurry away when she sees I'm going to pick her up!!

She actually fluttered a few feet today from my hands to her living quarters.

Her poops are very wet still but slightly browner. ( Andy you must excuse our obsession with talking about poops, it does tell us quite a bit about how they're feeling though ). 

So I'll keep her on prob-iotics and hope this helps improve them otherwise I might have to ask for some advice as to what further things to look for.

Janet


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

hopalong said:


> Jaye, I never saved Minnie's life, this forum did.


You cared enough to be concerned and advocate for her .....that is (sadly) more than most people would do.....


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

amyable said:


> Hi, I thought I'd just update Andy as to how Minnie is today.
> 
> 'She' is doing ok. In fact she's getting more lively and isn't as docile now, she tries to scurry away when she sees I'm going to pick her up!!
> 
> ...


Thanks Janet!!!

I've logged in about 20 times today, checking  With it being her first sleep after two nights in the cold, I thought it would be a big one!!

Keep talking poop!! It sound verrry important! I'm pleased she's scurrying away and having a little flutter, sounds much more normal behaviour! I was shocked what little resistance she put up when i got yesterday morning.

Sounds like shes in the right place, and hopefully on the mend


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Andy,

I thought you might be wondering how she was.
I have to put her in the airing cupboard at night as my dogs have to sleep in the bathroom she's in during the night. It's all change after dark. 

Today she was very curious about what's going on around her. I have two Woodies in there aswell and both have injuries I had to bathe and dress today. Minnie came out of her box and sat on the edge of the shelf she's on watching everything I was doing. She looked a bit concerned for them actually and didn't go back until they were back in their cages.

She's tucked up in bed now for the night. She's a real heart stealer. 

We'll see how she is tomorrow

Janet


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

I told you noooosey parker is Minnie!! 

She was watching out for her new friends! Does she like other birds?

How's she been today? Is the poop getting better?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Andy,

In answer to your question about whether Minnie likes other birds, well yes I think she prefers them to me now.
She hasn't actually got access to the other two Woodies in the bathroom as I need to keep her in quarantine in case she's ill.
SHe does come as close to the edge of her platform and she just stands on one leg watching the one Woodie's cage, or maybe she's looking at her seeds in case she's got anything better!
Unfortunately Woodie won't come out if I'm there as she has an injury and goes scarce when I appear as I'm normally going to pick her up to bathe the wing and give her meds, which she hates, so Minnie hardly sees her but she knows it's in there.

I'm feeling sorry for Minnie now as she looks bored and lost so I might try and have a chat with her owner over the weekend.
Her poops are still very wet but she seems ok in herself so it might be less stressful for her if she goes back to familiar surroundings which might help.
She flew off my hand today so that's beginning to look stronger aswell.

Definitely not so keen on being caught now so I think she'd be happy to be amongst her own friends again.

I'll let you know what happens when I speak to the owner.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I was wondering if after four days of pro-biotics I should be seeing a marked improvement in Minnie's poops?

They have turned a better colour but are still quite watery and cloudy.
I gave her an Appertex and put some Ivermectin drops on her neck when she came. Anything else I can do to try and sort her poops out?

Also I noticed today she's standing with her left leg permanently tucked up, so I've just put her on the floor and ecouraged her to walk and she's limping on the leg. Is able to put it down but not happy about it.
She can fly a bit but again, I'm surprised she doesn't attempt to fly off her shelf which she could do as she's not caged.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Janet, some of our pigeons have been limping, I hadn't seen this before in our aviary. I sent a throat swab and poop samples to Retford Poultry Services who did cultures and sensitivity tests, these showed e-coli with sensitivity to Baytril.

You could try Baytril or you could get a test kit and have a bacteriology test, including the kit that would be £12.

Cynthia


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, with the leg issue now added in to this little ones whole scenario, including the lack of flying I would be inclined, as Cynthia mentions, to start a course of Baytril and see if she starts to make some real improvement in condition.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you both for the advice, I'll certainly start her on Baytril in the morning.
Failing any response I'll get a test done aswell.

She has perked up since she arrived but I still don't feel she's quite right so I hope this makes some difference.

Thanks

Janet


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh no i hope she is ok ..........

Come to mention it, when I first saw her, last Sat, she was limping a bit, when walking round on the slabs. She had leaves stuck to her foot so I presumed it was that?

When I caught her and was in the box, she didnt appear to limp.

I would have mentioned it Janet but I thought it was just the leaves and walking on the stones when up against House and Fence corner.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Agree with Karyn and Cynthia about the antibiotics. Since I've had a few now where the only initial symptom was lameness in one leg who went on to develop focal joint swelling weeks later, I'm now inclined to start any bird who is limping on Baytril/cipro or clindamycin.

Janet, do you feel any swellings on any of the wing joints?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I've just gone over her wing joints Jenfer and they feel normal at the moment.
The limp is far worse todayl.

I'm beginning to sense a possible respiratory problem developing.
She has that faint popping noise from her nostrils when she breaths and her beak is very very slightly open. Not sure if that's normal for her but will watch her closely.
When I gave her the Baytril dose this morning, she threw it up immediately.
I gave her another dose and this time got it in down further into her crop so that's ok.
Also gave her a Spartrix. Just trying to cover some possible unseen problems.

Janet

Andy, don't worry about not mentioning the limp, it certainly wasn't evident when I checked over initially either.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, with the wet breathing sounds added in I am glad you started the Baytril. How much does she weigh and how much did you give her? Make sure you, if you haven't already, to supply her with supplemental heat and make sure she stays well hydrated.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Karyn, she's 250gms.

I gave her 1.25ml this morning.

I just gave her another dose and she started throwing her head about and threw up some large undigested seeds immediately after.

She's lying down in her box in a very warm airing cupboard ATM.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

amyable said:


> Karyn, she's 250gms.
> 
> I gave her 1.25ml this morning.
> 
> Janet


Janet, are you sure that you gave 1.25mL, as this amount, unless a very weak suspension/solution would be way too much, perhaps you added in the "1" by mistake or placed the decimal point wrong. What is the strength of the Baytril you are using?

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi again,

yes you're right, sorry I was rushing my answer to take a phone call. 

I gave her 0.1ml.. The solution is 2.5%.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks, I was hoping this is what was going on a typo. Janet, two things, the first is that 0.10 of 2.5% Baytril would be 2.5mg and for a 250g bird, this would be quite a bit of an under dose, she should be getting twice that, 0.20mL (5mg) for her weight, following Bayer's dosing guidelines of 20mg/kg q24h, if you are doing q24h dosing, for q12h you are correct. The second is for a quite ill bird, such as Minnie, I would do a loading dose, this is where you would give 0.20mL (5mg) to load her, then if doing q12h dosing, you would then give 0.10mL for her next 12h dose and the same going forward. If doing 24h dosing then you would give another 0.20mL 12h after the first and then 0.20mL every 24h then on. So since you have already given her 0.10mL, if you are doing q12h dosing I would give her another dose of 0.10mL right now, then every 12h after that.

I would not worry too much about food for the next 24h, meds, hydration and heat. You can supply her with a seed dish, as well as her water dish, but I would make the seeds smaller ones, meaning no peas, corn or larger food items for now.

Good luck with her,

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Karyn,

Yes I am doing q12h. She has just had her second dose for the day about an hour ago (a little early as we're out tonight).
Obviously she hasn't had a loading dose initially though. Is there any benefit in doing that tomorrow for her first dose of the day or just carry on with her present dose of 0.10ml, q12h from now on?

I'll follow the seed instructions for her. 

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, best just carry on then with the 0.10mL q12h, as you are now on a schedule, let's hope she starts to improve over the next 24-48 hours.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Just an update from this morning after Minnie's Baytril dose.

She did the same as yesterday and immediately after I gave the meds she threw it up along with some small seeds. I could hear her eating some seeds when I first came down so this must have been what she vomited.

I gave her a few minutes and gave her another dose. She got distressed again, puffed up and stretched out her neck and kept shaking her head trying to vomit. After a few minutes she stopped so hopefully the Baytril has got down as nothing came up this time.

Also her poops are back to very dark green after being slightly browner for a couple of days.

I've put her back on heat with just water and no seeds for the time being.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, how did her second dose of Baytril yesterday go, any attempts at throwing up? Do you know how to tube-feed just in case and do you think you could weigh her each morning at the same time to monitor her weight for the next little while?

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Karyn,

The second dose yesterday made her vomit aswell.

I think this maybe what makes her breathing sound a bit wet. Could be due to the Baytril getting into her nostrils when she brings it back up as she sounded ok before she had the meds. I will keep my ear on her for that though just in case.

I can tube feed if needed.

Just been to clean her out and poops are still very dark green.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, for her next dose today why don't you try adding the 0.10mL of Baytril to 5mL of water (this will help with her hydration) and then use a tube to directly medicate to the crop and see if the helps with her regurgitation and general stress from taking the med orally.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

OK, will do thanks.

J


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh no, it sounds like she's really ill. 

I'm so glad you came to collect her Janet, i dont think she'd still be with us if she was with me and sarah. She's had the best care with you and that will hopefully give her a fighting chance. 

She's such a beauty, and obviously a fighter because to she'd obviously been outside for a number of days.

Sarah reminded me of something yesterday, when I took the bins out about 5 days before we got her inside, I went out in the dark and it was like I disturbed a Pigeon, and it flew right past me. I said that Pigeon's out well late, they're usually well in bed by now. We reckon this may have been Minnie?? It flew from the direction of where Minnie 'took over' a few days later.

I never gave it a thought, how stupid of me. So focussed on Minnie and forgot that happened just a few days earlier. It must be a huge coincedence if it wasnt her


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

I wish I was more clued up on Pigeons and maybe this could have been prevented.

I always feed 'our gang' of visitors but had never read into them and their behaviour. Wish I came online on Saturday on the first day we saw her. How silly thinking she was just tired midflight!!! I'm so embarrased!!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Andy, 90% of people would probably have just ignored the bird anyway. 
The majority of people seeing birds outside would not know whether they were sick injured or what (apart from some of us on here lol). 
You spotted it, took action, and it is now in good hands and stands a fighting chance of getting through this. You did what you could and you also came online & found help, which is a lot more than most folk wouldve even bothered doing, so 10/10 to you.
Its possible even if you had spotted the bird earlier that it may not have been so ill at that point that it would have got away, then even if it did come back you would have been less likely to take more notice of it and by that time it may have been too late.

Life is a learning curve, and if you hadnt bothered to help this poor bird you wouldnt know what you know now. 
I guarantee you though, from now on, every time you see a pigeon, you'll be looking for "symptoms" lol


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Andy,

Quazar has said just what I would have said. I totally agree, you did so much for her just by caring and looking for help. How could you have known she was sick.
It's very small things that can give us a clue. As you now know, poops are a big give away for a start.
When I picked her up her eyes kept closing, and she was so docile to start with. It's easy to think she was just tired but that often is a sign of them feeling unwell.
Unfortunately birds will do anything to hide the fact they're ill, mainly for self preservation in the wild, and so when they do act sick they are generally very much under the weather.

Please don't worry, Minnie's still acting very much like a well bird and is still much livelier than when she first came.
I am wondering if she's been living wild for a little while as she loves pecking about on the ground for food as opposed to eating from a dish.
Tonight when I got her out for her meds I let her have a wander around the bathroom floor. She's obviously hungry as I didn't give her any seeds today after she was sick, so she pottered about and picked up the odd seeds that had fallen when I was feeding the woodies earlier. I'd say she was used to foraging.

She's a darling and with the great help and advice from the real experts on here, she's going to get lots of TLC.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Kinda' wondering if worms might be a problem...

Pidgey


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hopalong and Janet, That is so wonderful that you rescued Minnie! She is a beautiful bird and I hope she does well.--Cindy


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, outside of the episodes of regurgitation when giving her the Baytril orally, if things are moving though her GI tract OK, I would go ahead and let her have some small seeds if she likes, as 250g is still quite light and if she not regurgitating after medicating directly to the crop, we may have found a solution for prevent these episodes. Would it be possible to have a fecal analysis on her droppings done and what do you have on hand in the way of de-wormers on hand? Also, if you could post up a clear, close-up photo of her recent fresh droppings, it may be helpful in getting a better idea what is going on with her.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Minnie only weighed 220gms this morning. She didn't eat yesterday, so don't know how much can be attributed to that.

Meds went down ok with tubing and then I gave her a dish of small seeds which she immediately went straight for and ate for a good while.

As far as wormers go, I gave her Ivermectin, (two drops on the back of her neck), two days ago. It's a spot on treatment to cover worms, lice and mites in racing pigeons.
I have found a small bottle of Moxidectin Plus. 2mg per ml in my box of tricks. It was sent to me by a member to have in stock, so I can't be sure how old it really is as I didn't have it from new.

I've got a picture of her poops, just having trouble working out how to load at the mo as Hubbie has changed my computer. Will get those on asap.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Glad the direct tubing solved the regurgitation issue with the Baytril. Do you have Kaytee hand-feeding formula on hand, as I would not supplementing her for a week or so to get her weight back up. I have not used Ivermectin externally for worms before, but I did some reading and it seems external application will treat both internal and external parasites, so the two drops you applied should have shaken out at least a few worms if she was infected with them. We can have another look at this possibility in a few weeks, but I would like to see her over 300g before considering any other worming treatments.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Yes I do have Kaytee Karyn. I'll supplement her feeds as of tomorrow and monitor her weight daily then.

I'm going to weigh one of my disabled little birds tomorrow who I think might be a Roller to see roughly what they do weigh when well. Roly looks a similar size to Minnie.
I don't really know if she is a Roller or what type of pigeon actually, I'm no expert on that. It would be interesting to know if anyone has an idea.
They're smaller than the ferals so it might give me an idea as to how underweight Minnie is.

















I'm still working on the poop pics!

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

At last, the poop pics.

Two days ago.









This morning from overnight in box.










First one this morning. Unfortunately she picked a black tile to plant it on.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, yes, a good idea to weigh Roly so you know roughly where Minnie should be in the weight department. Her overnight and morning droppings do not have a lot of solids in them, so I do think it would be good to go ahead and supplement her with the Kaytee for a while. When giving oral antibiotics and Kaytee I try to separate the administering apart. 

What I usually do is at 7am give the antibiotics, then I will not give them a tube feeding until 12-1pm, this allows them time to self-feed, then I will give one more supplemental feeding around 9-10pm before lights out (since you are on twice a day dosing for the Baytril, you will give her evening dose at 7pm). I think somewhere between 10-15cc of Kaytee per feeding should be OK, but make sure you check her crop before feeding to make sure she did not really stuff herself with seeds and adjust the Kaytee amount according to what's in the crop, if empty feeling I would go for the 15cc, if you feel she has eaten an OK amount of seeds, 10cc (if her crop is very full, skip feeding). If her weight does not start to head back up after a few days of this, we can increase amount and frequency of feedings, but I would really prefer we try just to supplement, instead of completely taking over feed responsibilities for her if possible.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, just to update.

Minnie's weight has gone up again and is now 265g. I didn't supplement her feed yesterday as she had eaten a lot at the point I went to do it, so I thought I'd see how her weight was today.
I will manage to today.

Her poops are a good colour now but with watery urates today.

The limp is bad though. I had a good look at her legs and the affected one is slightly swollen at the joint.

I've sent for a test kit now as well.

Janet

ps. forgot to add that I weighed Roly who's a similar looking bird and she's 250g.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, if she has taken to self feeding well, and her weight is going up, then I would just monitor and record her weight every morning for the next few weeks to make sure she continues to do well in the weight department and hold off with the Kaytee for now. For present then, I would confine her to a smaller hospital cage to reduce her moving around a lot, with a brick inside to perch on, as they like to perch on bricks and this will help her reduce her use of the leg by remaining on the brick. Heating pad under 1/2 the cage, in case she wants extra heat, meds, seeds and water and see how things go over the next week. If it is paratyphoid in the leg joint the Baytril will treat this, but could take up to 2-4 weeks of treatment on the Baytril, if it's just an injury, then the rest will do her well. The only other thing I would maybe add would be 1 drop a day of Meloxicam for the next week to reduce inflammation and any pain in the joint. What will you be trying to test for with the testing kit?

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Karyn,

I've just sent for a test kit that Cynthia mentioned in her earlier post, and that tests for general bacteriology initially.
I gather she used this one when she noticed limping in some of her birds.
I can have additional specific tests done (at extra cost), but apparently I need five days of droppings for Salmonella.

Minnie is spending most of her time lying down, so is resting her leg at least that way.
Will carry on as you have suggested and keep a close eye on her.

Thanks for all the info to date.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, there are 4 forms of paratyphoid, intestinal, articular (joint), organ and nervous. I think the test would be worthwhile running, but there is a chance that even if the test does come back negative, because the salmonella may be localized in the joint(s), that it may just not culture out (there is also the fact that once antibiotics are administered they can also interfere with the accuracy of any culture tests run), so I would still continue with the Baytril for at least 14 days and reassess things at that point. If it's not too much extra I would have them have a look for elevated cocci and worm eggs while they are at it.

You're doing a good job for her,

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Well Minnie has made a good recovery. Her poops are so much better, considering she's still on Baytril. The other good news is since yesterday, her limp has gone!! 

In fact she/he is decidedly unimpressed at being caught or picked up now and although I'm not letting her have free range in the bathroom, I let her stretch her wings when my Woodie has been put away for the night.

I don't know what her full flying ability is as she's only flown up onto the side of the bath, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with her wings.

I haven't sent off a test kit for her yet, am not sure if it's as urgent now as she's responding to her treatment.
As I wasn't really sure exactly what was ailing her when she came, shall I still keep her on Baytril for the fourteen days and then stop now that's she showing a big improvement?

Thanks so far for all the help,

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

amyable said:


> As I wasn't really sure exactly what was ailing her when she came, shall I still keep her on Baytril for the fourteen days and then stop now that's she showing a big improvement?
> 
> Thanks so far for all the help,
> 
> Janet


Hi Janet, funny I was thinking of you and Minnie a little earlier today, I am so glad to hear she has responded well to your care and treatment.

When treating any bird (or human or other animal for that matter) with antibiotics you want to complete the full recommended course of treatment, in terms of time and dosage amounts, for the particular infection you are treating for, even if they look like the have responded well and are no longer showing symptoms of infection. Doing this makes sure that the infection is completely cleared, therefore not giving it a chance to reassert itself if treatment is cut short. 

So yes, please do treat her for the full 14 days and at the end of that time give her a good going over to make sure that the joints in the affected leg show no signs of swelling (compare them to the good leg), also, give her wings a good going over looking for any signs of swelling in the joints there as well.

Sounds like things are progressing well, nice work, 


Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

That is very good news, well done.

Don't use the test kit on her, it is best to use it before giving antibiotics anyway, but order it by phone from Retford Poultry so it is available when you need it . They don't charge until you use it, so it is a really handy thing to have in the house.

When you use one, just make certain that you don't try to squeeze poops into the tube that is designed to hold the swab...which is what I did!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Karyn,

Thanks, yes I will continue, I understand I need to complete the full course. I was a little unsure due to the fact I was treating a bit blind and wasn't completely sure of the duration needed.
The swollen joint does seem to have reduced but as you suggest, I'll make a proper check in a few days. Keeping fingers crossed. 

Cynthia,

You have saved me a call to Retford as I have received the kit but wasn't sure if I needed to pay for that upfront. It'll go into my box of tricks in case needed in future. 

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

amyable said:


> The swollen joint does seem to have reduced but as you suggest, I'll make a proper check in a few days.


Janet, at the end of the 14 days if you feel the joint still has some swelling to it, I would extend treatment for 7 more days to be on the safe side of things, this will pose no real risk to Minnie, whereas not completely clearing any infection will.

Please keep us updated,

Karyn


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

So happy to hear Minnie's doing well!

We check in every day to see she's ok, sounds a remarkable nursing to good health!!

Enjoy reading about her.

When I go outside i still look to her little corner between the house and the fence! Cant believe she found her way to us to be honest. Glad she chose our house and not my pigeon hating neighbours!!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Andy,

Glad to hear from you, (I've just popped a PM to you, didn't see you had posted).

Minnie is turning into a little rebel. Won't be picked up and does her best to avoid capture now. I let her have some free time in the bathroom every day to excercise her wings. The trouble is I have a domed skylight window in the ceiling and yesterday she flew up into it as she could see the sky and thought it was a way out!!!
I had to wait underneath until she got tired of flying and dropped into my hands as I had no way of reaching her. So now I can only let her out when it's dark outside and then she stays put sitting on the edge of the bath.

I'l probably try the phone number on her leg ring soon and see what they say about wanting her back. I think she'd be glad to be back amongst her mates if they want her as she has a lot of energy now and I'm sure would be happy to see familiar places. Don't worry I will be careful and make sure they are aware she will be taken care of if they have any doubts as to whether they will keep her. It maybe she's been missing for a long time. I think as she's not a racing pigeon and assuming performance isn't the issue with her, they'll be happy to see her again, so I think it's only fair to give them the option.

I'll wait until the meds are finished and I'm sure her legs are back to normal, but there's no sign of a limp any more, so I'm very pleased, even though she doesn't want a cuddle any more 

You're so right, she might have landed in the wrong garden and the outcome would have been totally different for her, she certainly had her guardian angel watching over her when she came to you for help.
You'll have to watch out if she does go back home, she might just come again if she knows she'll get a good feed!!
Hope your other visitors are all happy and healthy.

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, sounds like all is well, please do keep us updated on any further developments.

Very nice work,

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Minnie Has Gone Home!*

Hi,

Just wanted to update you on the final outcome for Minnie.
She's been so active and bored in her little hideaway that she had taken to trying to fly in there. Having let her have her excercise every evening she was as well as I could get her, so I knew I needed to sort out her future plans.

I left a message today for her owner and he rang me as soon as he got in.

It turns out Minnie has been missing since last August after being scared by a hawk. Sadly only yesterday her sister was taken by a hawk.

Would you believe her owner is called Andy too, and as he keeps records of all his birds he knew exactly when she disappeared. He was so pleased to know she had been found and so he drove over and collected her straight away.
I was also interested to find out she's a silver Tippler and from champion stock. 
I have to say she was the most beautiful bird.

So Andy (Hopalong), you don't have to worry as she's certainly not going to be PTS and will be hopefully breeding some more lovely babies once she's settled and he's sure she's fully fit again. So nice to meet someone who cares so much for his birds.

I just want to thank you all for your help and advice, especially Karyn, you were a great help.
I'll miss Minnie but once she was well I knew she'd be happier to be back with her own kind.

Well done Hopalong Andy and Sarah , carry on with the good work of looking out for your garden flock, wish there were more like you around.
You know where I am if you need me again. 

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Janet, thanks for this wonderful update, I wish they all turned out like this. You and everyone else did a terrific job for Minnie. I am also sure it a was a great surprise for Andy, the owner, to get this little beauty back after such a long stretch of time and I am sure she is very happy to be home once again.

Karyn


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Thats a great update and good news all round Janet, glad to hear the owner was so concerned & happy to have her/him back that he came & collected her/him.
There is so many times when owners of birds that have been missing just arent bothered, so 10/10 to the guy for that, and I'm sure Minnie will be happy to be back in her familiar surroundings.
Good work on getting her well enough to go, and Well done to Andy for getting her inside & help in the first instance.


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

amyable said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just wanted to update you on the final outcome for Minnie.
> She's been so active and bored in her little hideaway that she had taken to trying to fly in there. Having let her have her excercise every evening she was as well as I could get her, so I knew I needed to sort out her future plans.
> ...


Oh my God ... August!!!!!!!!!!! I cant believe she survived that long. I'm wondering if she was a friend introduced to us by the hops clan!

I'm staggered she lasted that long, so upset to hear about her sister.

Does Minnie have a mate then? I take it she is a she then?

Was the owner very local to me do you know?

The fence has blown down now ... the side who hate pigeons, so our flock have stayed away the last few days.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Andy,

Well as far as having a set mate goes, I expect with fanciers who are trying to produce a 'perfect' Tippler,or whatever breed they keep, the choice is made for them really as he would pair her off with another top class male bird by putting them together. I am no expert but I imagine so.
The main thing is she will be kept from free flying so she can concentrate on rearing her chicks and so will be safe from hawks thank goodness.
I certainly wouldn't be able to cope with seeing one of my birds killed by a hawk, I'd be too upset.

Andy certainly knew his stuff and is still going to keep an eye on her for a while to make sure she's completely clear of any health problems.

He does live in Erdington but I've forgotten what road he said, can't be far from you.

Boy these winds are causing some damage, our neighbour's fence has fallen against our wall today and knocked it down, nice mess. 
Hope your 'nice' neighbour doesn't take too long in fixing your fence, poor birds will be hungry!! Mind you they maybe staying away while the winds are so bad.

I'll probably call Andy in about a week to ask how Minnie is doing so will let you know.

Janet


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## hopalong (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm pleased she's happy!

My goodness hawks on the loose are not good for our friends!!!

Any news off t'other andy yet????

Pleased minnie had a happy ending! Glad she knew where to come!! This forum is the best! Saved a poor bird,


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