# Baby mourning dove with swollen, possibly sprained toe



## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Hello, I have a baby mourning dove that I rescued during the hurricane in NY. I successfully took care of it for a week and now it is getting ready to be weaned off formula. My question is this, today I found that the middle toe on the foot has a swelling, like a ball, at the top of the toe where it connects to the foot. The rest of the toe is normal sized and so is the foot. She does walk on it and appears to be able to bend the toe regardless and grip with it. But when she lies down she does rest sideways a bit, and uses her wing for support against the ground I guess so she could take weight off of it. My guess is she landed wrong or hit a wall when she tried to fly and sprained it. Does this seem probable? Is there anything I can do or should i just leave it alone, not let her fly around and jump around, and watch it carefully so it doesn't get worse? 

Here is the picture of her toe. Let me know what you think- Ringo


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi...is this a new development or might it have been there since you found her ? Nice save, BTW.

From how I read this, she was initially sitting fine and now this has appeared and she is compensating for it...is that right ?

It could be a few things...soft tissue strain, a sprain, a fracture, a small infection.

Do you happen to have any antibiotics there ? Penicillin, Amoxycilin, Baytril (also called Cipro) of Cephalexin....anything like that ?

Also, judging from the pic she seems pretty human-acclimated. So, you are gonna keep her ?


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Hey thank you for the reply! I'm really not sure whether it's new or not. But I am leaning towards new just because of the way I saw her lay on her side when at work with me (I've been bringing her to work the past week to feed her formula). I think maybe she injured it in the cage. I was keeping her in a plastic container and tried moving to a cage with perches by the floor and she flew up against the cage wall a few times, maybe it got caught, Now she is back in a solid wall container with towels and a heating pad under until I see improvement. But I checked on it this morning, it didn't go down but didn't get worse. She still uses it very well. Balances on it when perching, and what not. I also took her out to feed her formula and she was gripping the palm of my hand with all three toes very well when I pulled her away. 

I don't have any antibiotics but I am sure I can get some. How would I go about giving her Amoxy or something? How is the dosage? And should I wait a while and see if it gets better on its own before administering drugs? 

I do plan on keeping her. She is way too tame and very close to me and affectionate. She sits on my shoulder and falls asleep cuddled up against my nose. She also gives me "love pecks" all over my face. It would not be wise to let her go back out there she wouldn't be able to keep herself alive, that's for sure. As much as I hate to take wildlife from the wild I want what's best for her. I plan on keeping her in a very large flight cage when she grows up.


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

By the way here is her pic as of yesterday










Let me know what you think!


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## Coolpigeon (Feb 2, 2006)

That is a very good looking dove. Do have neosporin you can apply to the area? There is a member named Libis that has morning doves. Maybe you can send her a message.


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi Ringo,

Congratulations on saving your new friend. That was a really horriffic huricane that hit NY & NJ. I used to live in NJ years ago, right in the flood zone, so I know what those poor people are going through in trying to clean up and get things back to normal. Anyway, I wanted to post for two reasons. First because I too saved a baby mourning dove. She (Jacee) was near death and severely injured when I found her. I managed to save her life with lots of TLC, handfeeding and vet care. She just celebrated her 3rd birthday in July. When I rescued her, she was a lot younger than the one you have and posted a pic on but no matter, mourning doves make excellent pets and bond strongly to their owners. I smiled when I read that she gives you love pecks on the face and nuzzles up to you to sleep on your shoulder because my Jacee does the exact same things. I love her very much and wouldn't trade the time I've had with her for anything in the world. Rasing her was one of the best things I've ever done and the experience was worth saving her for. I also wanted to say, that while I feel the same about taking wild animals out of their natural habitats, sometimes it's just not possible nor is it feasable because of bonding issues or injury to do so. In those cases it's in the best interest of the animal/bird in question to do the rescue and let them live out their lives cared for and loved as pets. My Jacee has some lasting medical issues resulting from her injuries and the severe dehydration she suffered before I found her that would not let her live outdoors as a fee-roaming wild bird. She will always live with me and that's fine as she doesn't know any other life. So don't feel guilty in the least about your baby. You are absolutely doing the right thing in caring for her and saving her life. She definitely would have met an unkind end if you hadn't taken her in.

The second thing I wanted to tell you is that while giving her the antibiotics is a good thing in case an infection has started in the foot - the pic you first posted definitely shows a swelling at the toe joint and the way you described how this may have happened would seem to indicate a definite injury. Toe injuries of this nature are common, even in pet birds. I have a Lovebird that occasionally suffers from swelling of that same joint. - You also need to treat this swelling topically. Neosporin is ok but I've found the best thing to apply to a bird for abrasions, pain relief, skin irritations, inflammation and post surgical wounds is an ointment that was prescribed by my avian vet and also can be purchased on line is...Helix (pronounced Heal-x) Soother Cream. It comes in a one ounce tube and just a dab rubbed onto the affected area will visibly reduce swelling within 24 hours. Harrisons (makers of pelleted bird foods) makes this soother cream.

You will need to go to this link...

http://www.exoticdvm.com/heal-x

This link shows all the Healix products...

http://www.exoticdvm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=avixproducts.showIcons&

It is an excellent product that I've been using for years and always keep a tube of it on hand for emergencies. The one ounce tube is a bit pricey at $28.00 but considering you only use a dab of it at a time, it really lasts a long time and the end results in reducing pain, swelling and redness of the affected area is definitely worth it's cost. 

Best wishes in helping this little one and good for you in saving her. Please post updates to let us know how she is doing.


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

P.S. - I thought that you would like to know what the tube says. The exact wording on the tube of soother is as follows:

Indications: Pain relief for skin irritation, inflammation and post-surgical wounds with the addition of an alternative to anitbiotics for management of skin infections.

Directions: Apply topically and massage into affected area. Use as recommended by your veterinarian. Discontinue if redness or irritation occurs. 
(I need to tell you here that I've never encountered this problem in all the years I've been using it and it's safe to use more than 2-3 times per day per my vet).

Ingredients: Monoglyceride of an edible fatty acid suspended in aloe vera juice and a patented quaternay ammonium solution for analgesia. 

My avian vet also maintains that this cream has high anitbacterial properties.

Hope this info helps.

Best of luck
Dee (Bird Crazy)


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Great post, BC. I will add that it's not a bad idea to keep an internal antibiotic on hand, also.

Ringo, you can order Amoxycillin from either Jedds.com or Foys.com

Another alternative would be to find an avian vet for a checkup...they can also prescriibe an antibiotic if they deem the inflammation an issue. The thing is, if the inflammation is internal (the result of a twist or impact or the foot getting caught in the bars)...a topical antibiotic will not do too much...you need an internal type, such as Amoxy...which works very well on soft tissue and bone infections.

Topicals are excellent if the injury is external, or began as external.

The topicals BC mentions are also good to have...I use the Healer all the time and it's a great one.

I would order some of both the Amoxy and an external...if for no other reason than just to have on hand.

Then just keep an eye on your buddy...if she begins to show ANY signs of lethargy, loss of appetite, squinty or sleepy eyes (or just one eye)...or if the foot appears to be getting worse or not better, then start the Amoxy via oral 1cc syringe.

For a baby of that size, I would go with a dilution of 125 mg/ml, and a dosage of .05cc twice a day for 7 days. But again, that's just FYI and getting ahead of ourselves for the moment....


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks Jaye and I agree with you that if he can get the bird to a vet for a check up and an exam of the foot, that would be the best course of action to take - espeically if the injury has started something internal that caused the swelling, then an antibiotic would have to be prescribed and administered as well as using a topical such as was suggested. 

As a side bar...I've been using the Helix Soother Creme a long time and have had wonderful success with it. I even used it on my dog (he's passed on now) when he had a staph infection in his foot and other myriad skin ailments and allergies. Mostly, I keep it on hand now for my birds and any rescues that come to me who could benefit form the use of a topical ointment. My Lovebird gets tendonitis in one foot whenever she is in nest mode and in recent years she gets it more often because of a heart condition that makes her retain fluid. It works wonders on her sore toe joints and reduces swelling in no time. 

FYI - Another teriffic product from Harrisons that I use in the Helix line is the Booster. It's a solid until the bottle is set in hot water. Then it liquifies the bottle's contents and can be given via syringe. My Cockatiel that I rescued about 6 years ago, who had been horribly abused and neglected and who also had a life-threatening disease - PDD takes the booster on a daily basis and frankly, it's saved his life. He wouldn't be here today without it. My vet has him on a regimine of 6 units of Booster once a day and I also feed him a variety of foods high nutrient foods. Including LaFeber's Nutri-an Nutrition and Recovery Cakes (available from an avain vet only). He gets one cake/square daily with an additional cake/square every other day and have to say that not only has the Booster and Recovery Cake diet kept him alive, he has also not lost even a single gram in the past 4 years! Quite a feat for a bird that was diagnosed with PDD. He has already outlived the vets expectations for him and can't believe how well he is doing. I credit the Booster and the Cakes as well as a good measure of TLC and spoiling from me - LOL But we both agree that the Booster is amazing stuff and my vet recommends it to all his patients owners for their birds. I would imagine that it wouldn't hurt to use it for ANY sick bird, pigeons included. The site I mentioned gives a really good description of the Booster and the other products in the Helix line. They are all good and I've even heard great things about the Sunshine factor too.


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Hey! Thanks so much, Bird for the great kind words and encouragement! It was so lovely to hear your story and makes me all the more excited to get Ringo in my life. She was doing so well this morning. I am weaning her off formula, I was handfeeding her for eight days, and I am guessing she is about 15 days old now. She was eating seeds like a pro in the morning and I just saw her take a big drink of water on her own and I feel like she is ready to be an adult. I will still sneak ina few more feeding just because I love it so much!

And the link is great! I will be rushing a shipment of the cream for Ringo and I think it is such a good thing to have at home!

@Jaye, those links are a Godsend! Thank you so much for posting! I really wanted a place where I could ger antibiotics without a prescription! I was also hoping you might tell me how much to give of the stuff for my cockatiel. I'd like to have it on hand for both of them.

You guys are wonderful!


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi Ringo, 

Way to go! Glad to hear that all is going so well with your new buddy. You are very welcome for the information and the links. Also, GREAT JOB! You are doing everything perfectly in weaning her so far and I know what you mean about enjoying the handfeedings, they were definitely the highlights of my day when I was doing it with Jacee. FYI - One thing I found very helpful in weaning her was actually pecking at the seed mixes I wanted her to eat with my finger. I'm sure you've noticed your baby watches you for cues as to what she should do with the food you are trying to get her to eat. I know Jacee watched everything I did very intently when I finger-pecked at seed or other foods (mashed hard boiled egg for instance) she immediately took notice. coming over to investigate what I was "pecking" at and caught on quickly, doing it herself just by following my lead. After all, she considered me her momma and I was teaching her how and what to eat. BTW - I don't know how much bird experience you have but I should tell you that while flight is an instinct that is hard-wired into all birds, as babies they must learn in addition to actually lifting off and carrying their own body weight, how to control flight. I would suggest that you take precautions and bird-proof whatever room Ringo will be taking flight practice in. Even though I did this, I had several close (near accident) calls when Jacee was first learning to fly. She needed to learn how to control speed of forward motion and most of all landing gracefully. You might also try to make some of the same sounds and noises your new buddy makes. I did this and it helped us bond even more closely. Oh, one thing though, Only the male dove makes the drawn out cooing sound. The female makes the shorter answering call. Sorry, I can't describe the acutal calls in words, but if you hear them from the wild mourning doves you would know them in an instant. Since you are now the parent, it might be helpful to call to her in that way. 

Also please remember Jay's advice about the signs of illness in a sick bird and the dosage for the anitbiotics when you get them. I've copied it again here because it's excellent advice...

Jay Quote: "Just keep an eye on your buddy...if she begins to show ANY signs of lethargy, loss of appetite, squinty or sleepy eyes (or just one eye)...or if the foot appears to be getting worse or not better, then start the Amoxy via oral 1cc syringe. For a baby of that size, I would go with a dilution of 125 mg/ml, and a dosage of .05cc twice a day for 7 days. But again, that's just FYI and getting ahead of ourselves for the moment...."

That mentioned, it's good to hear that you are going to follow Jay's suggestion about the antibiotic and will be administering it once it arrives and have also ordered the Soother Creme to keep on hand. Believe me, having that around is going to be one of the best decisions you will make in the care of this little one. To answer your question about dosing - Dosage is based on body weight - Weight for birds is measured in Grams. This would also be true for your Cockatiel (I also have a tiel , his name is Casey). So, if you can get a weight in grams on each bird, that would be extremely helpful to those here who can advise you as to how much of a dosage to give your birds. If you can't measure in grams, you can also get a weight measurement in ounces and then convert it to grams using an online converter or the link posted in the forums for the conversion charts. However, I am curious as to why you think you need to administer an antibiotic to your Cockatiel? Has it been showing signs of illness? Once you get your bird to wean and it learns to fly, you might want to seriously think about an exam by an avian veterinarian just to make sure that all is well. I do this at least once per year for all my birds and I currently have 6. It's called the well-bird exam. The first well bird exam given establishes a base-line for both the bird and your vet to know what is normal for your bird before it is sick. That way, if the bird becomes ill, the vet will know what to compare the birds symptoms and vital statistics to. 

Again, Great Job and good for you in taking this little one in and helping her. Raising a baby bird is one of the most rewarding experiences you will have.

Warmest Regards,
Dee - Bird Crazy


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks for the reply! Yes she is actually eating seeds very very well, as well as gravel. I did start pecking with my finger to get her curious about it. I see her constantly pecking the seeds and swallowing it. Her crop is also very well filled with seeds when I feel around. I also got her interested with water first by using the pipette to drop little bits of water near her, and letting it go on her beak,m and then I put a bowl in her container with water and used the dropper to drip water in the bowl which helped her associate the bowl with water, and she drank so well. I did rush the cream and antibiotics so I should be getting them soon. 

I understand what you say about controlled flight. She is starting to catch on now, though. I see her plotting a route and following it. She was eyeing the top of the dresser and went for it. She was also aiming for the back of the chair and got there too. Now we have less accidents and falls and crashes. 

She acts very healthy, she makes a lot of peeps and chirping noises, very low and cute. She also does a funny behavior when happy or excited when she chirps and makes her wings kind of tremble, especially when she is eating and gets very excited, she does this when I hand feed too and when I snuggle her.

Her nose is very clear, so is her mouth. Her eyes are wide, clear, and not glossy. Her feathers are almost all grown in except for the neck area. She breathes clearly and has very very nice solid poop, circular, dark green, with a very defined white urate in the middle.

As far as my cockatiel goes, I noticed just a little while ago that his nostrils were clogged up.. but he does not give any indication of upper respiratory issues. I listen to him breathe and watch him and it's very very clear. He does no mouth breathing and his poop and eyes are in good shape. I am thinking it may be debris in the air,...i set up a hepa filter and am running it now, and cleaned his nostrils with a wet, warm, q-tip. Will watch his nose, but was thinking of a just in case scenario. 

The baby's weight is 66 grams. I will get the weight for the cockatiel in a bit.

Thanks so much for all your time and concern! All is very much appreciated!


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Ok the cockatiel is 83 g. Why I am so so worried about the cockatiel's health is because he has always refused fruits and veggies. In fact, he does so with anything soft. i tried sneaking in diced up pieces under his pellets. I tried putting pellets in slices. I tried tough love or offering only what I wanted him to eat, but nothing ever worked. He eats harrison's food with a sprinkling of missing link for birds. He eats seeds a few times a week for a snack. But because of his diet I worry so much about his health.


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

I also realize that he is light for a cockatiel. He has always been smaller (I say he loosely, don't really know). He does appear healthy and I had him for about 8 years already.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well the Dove sounds like she/he is doing great. Keep an eye on the foot.

As for the 'Tiel...Ringo..do you happen to have a Nebulizer ? I have a Orangehead Conure who due to an injury has a compromised upper mandible in the sinus dept..so he now and again gets stuffy up there.

My vet recommended putting him in a small carrier or fish tank and nebulizing him with saline solution for about 10 minutes a day for a few days. If you cannot get saline, just use distilled water instead. Put your pal in the enclosure, put the nebulizer end in the enclosure and cover it so the fog stays in the container. It will get all foggy and the bird will be inhaling the nebulized fog.

It slicks up their sinuses and gets things moving again. Works wonders.

If you don't have one of those contraptions, I would get "Tiel to the vet soon...could be something as simple as a nasal flush is needed, or perhaps she/he has the beginning of a respiratory infection. A vet would know.

Keep it up !


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks! We are trying!

As far as the nebulizer! We are in luck, as I work in a medical supply and can get one for $20, our buying price!

Saline solution is also super easy to get in the pharmacy next door! I will try it! But after I cleaned his nostrils and ran the hepa for a full day, his nose does not seem to be getting any more clogged in the past 2 days. But the nebulizer is a really good tip!


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

Hey Ringo, great job with the Dove so far. It's so cute when they are learning to fly and even more so when you peck at something and they are on it instantly. 

In addition to what Jaye suggested about the nebulizer (it IS a great tip!) My vet also recommends getting the bird to perch in a steamy bathroom. Preferrably as close to the shower itself as possible, then running the water at the hottest setting to steam up the room, letting the bird breathe in the steam to open up the sinus passages.

My Tiel Casey, he has always suffered from sinus problems. He's been to the vet to have his sinuses flushed any number of times and has also been on antibiotics. But and to avoid having to continually put him on antibiotics, I use the steamy bathroom idea with him to open his sinuses up. I run an extremely hot shower, steam up the bathroom as much as possible and then have Casey perch on a swing that hangs directly from the shower rod (we don't have a shower stall) where he sits and preens his feathers. Sometimes he even showers with me, which he loves. Then we both get to enjoy the steams benefits. Just thought I would mention this as an alternative method to the nebulizer because it also works. I have Casey sit and breathe steam a couple of times a week and he's done very well with it. Only one caution though, make sure that the shower is clean and disinfected before you try this as E-Coli bacteria can lurk in bathrooms, particularly in places that are constantly wet.


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## Bird Crazy (Aug 9, 2011)

P.S. Ringo wait until the dove wing slaps you when it gets annoyed! LOL The wing flutter is also cute, My Jacee does more of a vibrate thing. Her whole body vibrates when she is excited or scared. Oh yeah, one other thing that will surprise you is when your baby puts one wing straight up into the air and leaves it there like she's a sail boat. When Jacee first did this, I thought something was wrong. Now I know better. Take Care.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

That's a bit of luck that you have the machine and the solution so accessible to you. Those mutha's run like $70 retail...
Same idea as a steamy bathroom really, but it's just more direct and concentrated with the nebulizer and a small enclosure.

Just outta curiousity, has the 'Tiel seen the Dove yet ?


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## Ringo (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah I will definitely try them. But for now, the tiel's nose seems fine and so does everything else...

And no the dove has not been near the tiel. I keep em in separate rooms on separate levels of the apartment. And I wash my hands between handling them. I will keep em separate for a good long time.

One thing that;s been worrying me with the new diet change is that she apears to now be expelling clear liquid, like water, when she poops. I did order prbiotics though and will be giving it to her. Her foot swelling still has not gone down...waiting for the cream to come!

Thanks for all the advice you guys!


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