# Pigeon unable to open beak wide enough to be fed



## kulaworld (Jan 21, 2011)

This time I found a sick feral pigeon just outside at home. 
It startled me when I put my bag down to open the door, when he tried to fly away but couldn't, so he tried to hide under a table.
I just picked him up and took him in. That was about 40 hours ago.

He is definately an older pigeon and has very similar symptoms to the other pigeon and the sweet galah I had for a day not long ago.......respiratory, wheezing, smelly, thick yellow mucus-like substance in and around beak, crusty around the head, possibly eyes infected too, one was half shut yesterday, but fully open now, not fluffed up.
The worst is that he cannot open his beak, only a little bit, 5mm, not more.
I tried to open it more, but I'm scared I'd break it. 

I am able to give meds, he is on Metronidazole, Amoxycillin, Nilstat, Sulfa 3 and Oxytetracycline.
I give water with salt using syringe, he will not drink on his own, tried patiently to make him drink, not happening.
I'm worried he will die on me, for I cannot get any food into the beak. But even if....he might not be able to swallow even small pieces of dog sausage or soft peas or corn......
What can I feed him so he does not loose more weight?
I can only use the syringe to give him something.
Is liquid egg and honey an alternative?

He mostly stands on top of the hot water bottle, I did not see him sit yet.
When I take him out to re-fill the bottle, he feels warm and he will look around a bit.

What else can I do to help?

Almost forgot, got pics.....will upload asap, cat wants feeding now.
Cheers


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Buy some rice cereal for,human babies, and some applesauce for human babies ...mix them together with some warm water to make a formula and try that.


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## kulaworld (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks Charis for the info, got the baby foods right away and mixed it all up.
All so slowly I was able to put it down his throat.

I was happy to see him still with us this morning.
He looks a bit better around the eyes now, I always use a damp cloth to wipe the excess food off to keep the areas clean. Got a big piece of yellow gunk out of his beak yesterday......he must be full of this puss. Still these sounds of bad congestion. That bad smell is gone too.
The beak comes apart a little more, but not much, so I'm still unable to look down his throat.

Finally I got those pics copied into pc. They were taken right after I took him in.
Those crusty bits are less now.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

> I am able to give meds, he is on Metronidazole, Amoxycillin, Nilstat, Sulfa 3 and Oxytetracycline.


Dear Rosie,

I just wanted to let you that its not generally a good idea to mix up those 3 families of antibiotics and give them all at the same time . Both tetracyclines and Sulfas impact on the effectiveness of amoxicillin, and I'm not sure how the tetracyclines and sulfas interact- probably not too well. 

In this case, is often a good idea to start with the sulfa antibiotic, and move to something else depending on the response within the first 2 days.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi again Rosie,

Just looking at those pictures, I had a thought that you may be dealing with avian pox in your area which can affect several types of native birds as well as the pigeons. 

The wart-like, pus-filled growths that are starting to show around the eyes are a fairly typical sign of pox, and by the sounds of it the growths are in the poor little thing's mouth as well. And who knows where else, as it can manifest internally as well. In my area, I see it mainly in the pigeons and local crows, who are affected by it very badly. It can also infect other types of native birds too...its very nasty & highly cotagious.

I've taken in a few pox victims over the past two years and `they say' that supportive care and medicine to treat the secondary problems can potentially save them. But I've never had such luck, and from my discussions with my most experienced local bird rehabber, not many people do succeed in pulling them through. The rehabber I just mentioned has only managed to save one crow out of dozens of [pox-infected birds, and she said she thought it was becuase he managed to keep self-eating the whole time he was sick. It took him 12 weeks to recover, and he couldn't walk or fly during that time. She also managed to stop the infection from spreading any further using liberal doses of probiotics in the waterers near the sick flock.

Anyway, I suppose I shouldn't jump the gun and declare this to be a pox problem from seeing just one photo, but please keep it in mind and maybe do a little research? Pox and canker can have very similar symptoms too, so it would eb a good idea to monitor the effect of metronidazole on the growths in the mouth, tha might help narrow it down.

poor little thing


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## kulaworld (Jan 21, 2011)

Bella_F said:


> Dear Rosie,
> 
> I just wanted to let you that its not generally a good idea to mix up those 3 families of antibiotics and give them all at the same time . Both tetracyclines and Sulfas impact on the effectiveness of amoxicillin, and I'm not sure how the tetracyclines and sulfas interact- probably not too well.
> 
> In this case, is often a good idea to start with the sulfa antibiotic, and move to something else depending on the response within the first 2 days.


Thanks for making me aware of this Bella, I appreciate it.
Do you think I should continue now with the Sulfa for another 2 days from today? And if no improvement I will switch to either of the other two antibiotics.

You were right the other day when you said that I won't get my bathroom back...LOL


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Rosie, 

I was writing my second post about avian pox just as you wrote, sorry for the confusion! (Did you see the next post?)

Its tough when you may be dealing with something viral, as you can't cure viruses with antibiotics. However its a good idea anyway to use antibiotics to help combat secondary problems. I'm not sure which one you should use though in this case. I've heard of Baytril being used for birds infected with avian box, but I am not aware of whether its a better choice over amoxicillin or Sulfas, or why. If it is Avian pox that you're dealing with, those warty growths will get bigger& then burst, and they will need some treatment like betadine or antibiotic ointment. I know thats not a great lot of help, but I hope it helps a little bit.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

PS. Rosie, I don't know if you've come across this yet, but this link helped me a little bit when it comes to working out how much to feed emaciated sick pigeons:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/Emaciation.html

Its difficult to understand some parts of this, especially the formulas for calculating how many calories, & type of calories (ie amino acids versus calorie dense foods) to give a very sick bird. 

But essentially, what it explains is that a sick bird needs a certain number of calories to live. If you are solely responsible for giving a sick bird its nutrition, then you have to make sure you're giving it enough calories per day, however you administer the food. By most calculations, roughly 40 calories daily for a very sick pigeon is good enough. From personal experience, you can't just mix up weetbix with water and give a few syringe-fulls a day..the calculation needs to be a little more exact than that. 

Just to give you an idea, if you were feeding weetbix alone (which is a good food for sick & baby birds IMO) you'd need to feed the sick pigeon 2/3 of one weetbix brick over the course of the day, which would be approx 40 calories. For a liquid diet for very sick pigeon, you might need to add 50ml or more of water to make this brick-portion runny enough for syringe feeding, and that liquid would have to be fed over the day to keep the bird alive. At this point, most people turn to tube feeding because its hard & time consuming to administer 50ml of liquid to a bird via syringe.


Finally, the website mentions that sick birds come in categories, according to how much weight they've lost (ie 25%, 50%, 75%). Each of these categories needs a slightly different approach to feeding, which is something I think you already understand from seeing the difference between trying to help a bird that is newly grounded, versus almost dead.

The really far gone birds can be killed from the stress of trying to digest the food you're giving it. So the web document makes suggestions for food types that are nutritional enough and yet not too taxing on the bird's system. 

Hope that link helps anyway!


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## kulaworld (Jan 21, 2011)

Dear Bella

Been reading through your info and also the website's.
Thanks again for all your advice and tips.

Forgive me for being brief right now......I'll update asap.
Wish there were more hours in the day..........back soon!

Cheers


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

No worries, I hope you are doing ok!


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