# Scratchin' at Poop



## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I think I read once, but cannot remember where that if your pigeons are peckin', scratchin', like they're trying to eat dried poop that its a sign of a certain vitamin deficiency... but I cannot remember if that's true or not or what vitamin they were talking about that the birds may be lacking...  

The reason I ask is, as of late, when I do the daily scrape and sweep the loft thing, several of my birds seem to be paying extra attetion to the pile of scraped up dry poop before I can sweep it all up and into the dust pan and take it out to toss it. I'm not sure if its because of some possible vitamin deficiency thing or if its just pigeons are weird...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> I think I read once, but cannot remember where that if your pigeons are peckin', scratchin', like they're trying to eat dried poop that its a sign of a certain vitamin deficiency... but I cannot remember if that's true or not or what vitamin they were talking about that the birds may be lacking...
> 
> ......



I'm not really sure about pigeons and the eating poop thing....there's actually a name for that which escapes me right now. I have read that they are looking for the beneficial bacteria (probiotics) which live there. This from several sources. Although, who knows, maybe you could give them the bottle variety of vits/mins/probiotics, and they'd still go for a poop snack. Sure seems like some dogs do....

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Zig, 

This is fairly normal behaviour of pigeons from what I've read. I've seen my own pigeons peck and eat dried bits of poop too. It's not uncommon for many animals to eat their own feces! I think you are correct that there could be something lacking in their diet or perhaps they are recycling nutrients. One thing I'm sure they get from eating their own dried poops is some good gut flora/bacteria. Of course this is also a dangerous thing for pigeons to do in case they are ingesting bad bacteria as well. 

If your birds are healthy and disease free, I don't think it's much of a worry when they occasionally partake in dried feces. You may want to try giving your birds more and different types of probiotics at this time. You could also try rotating some vitamin/mineral products.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

When we had just Walter, I notice he would try to peck at the dried poops of the wild birds. Probiotics several times a week along with a good vitamin/mineral supplement should help out.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Hmmm...

My birds have 3 kinds of grit available all the time.

I feed them, what I think is a good pigeon mix, suplemented with safflower and mung beans.

Sunday is ACV in their water day.

Wednesday is Garlic Juice in their water day.

Friday is SuperVit (multi-vitamin & trace elements) in their water day.

Other days, just regular (fresh) water.

I've wormed them about every 6 months & treated for cocci, canker, etc. (5 in 1) or when I've seen worms in their poop, but that was only like once or twice awhile back.

Loft is scraped and swept daily (well, 96+% of the time) and every 2 weeks its that plus a good scrubin' with water + bleach and a good hosin'.

I've been thinking though on giving them some probiotics... maybe that's it?


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I was surprised at how much of a difference the probiotics made. Maybe it's because the birds are so protected that the don't pick friendly flora on their own. I routinely add probiotics to oiled seed (with garlic) twice a week. After any med, including wormer, I use it for three days in a row. It just seems to give them an added edge. Before, I only rarely saw dropped downey feathers. Now, there's a nice number every morning. More mess, but healthier birds, I think!


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

TerriB said:


> I was surprised at how much of a difference the probiotics made. Maybe it's because the birds are so protected that the don't pick friendly flora on their own. I routinely add probiotics to oiled seed (with garlic) twice a week. After any med, including wormer, I use it for three days in a row. It just seems to give them an added edge. Before, I only rarely saw dropped downey feathers. Now, there's a nice number every morning. More mess, but healthier birds, I think!



What flavor probiotics do you use?

<edit>

Do y'all think this...

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=63&SubCategoryID=980&ProductID=2587

... would work? Anyone out there ever used this product? The way it looks, you mix it in with feed you'd give to a youngster when hand-rearing?? I'm wondering if it would work mixing it in with the regular seed feed to adult birds???


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Zig -

Probably a long shot, but is there any relationship between this behavior and breeding times?

Just thinking that wild pigeons will eat small insects, snails, etc. to build up (presumably) protein when in a round of breeding.

Wonder if there is something in the dried poop which may appear to provide something which is otherwise missing? Does the grit have added minerals and trace elements? We provide our birds with red mineral blocks or calcium & mineral blocks which give them added elements not found in their daily feed, and maybe not in their normal pigeon grit.

John


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, I give them these type of pick-pots...

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=36&SubCategoryID=447&ProductID=1491


... and this type of grit...

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=36&SubCategoryID=1357&ProductID=769

... along with yet another type of grit that I got from a local feed store.

And I mix in a small smattering of charcoal with their grit.

Plus, they get SuperVit in their water once a week...

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=36&SubCategoryID=551&ProductID=768





There may be a connection to breeding as you mention because all of my hens now all want to be on eggs...


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

When I scrapped my lofts over the weekend, my pigeons where doing the same thing. They were picking in the pile of birdie poop before I have the pile placed in the pail. I never thought of a vit deficiency, I found it to be more irritating because they were making a mess when I was trying to clean it up.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> What flavor probiotics do you use?
> QUOTE]
> 
> I use Herba Pro Bacto powder from Global (light coating of olive oil on the seeds, first). I tried two human probiotic powders but they contained sugar and created a crust on the bird's beak.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

This comment from John D got me thinking:

"_ I Wonder if there is something in the dried poop which may appear to provide something which is otherwise missing? Does the grit have added minerals and trace elements? We provide our birds with red mineral blocks or calcium & mineral blocks which give them added elements not found in their daily feed, and maybe not in their normal pigeon grit.

John"_

Notwithstanding everything that we are told about salts in the diet of birds and the dangers to their health that may result from ingestion......it would not surprise me in the least that the pigeons are drawn to the salts that are present in pigeon feces and specifically in thier urates.

All animals crave and need salts to some extent. That includes pigeons and while I would not recommend salting their foods I would not be adverse to them taking some salts from say pick-pots or other natural sources. There is nothing abnormal in that behaviour that I can see except the implication being that your pigeons are craving salts. If you doubt this then you will also doubt how a re-hydration formula including both salt and sugar can possibly help a sick bird. Doesn't make sense does it.

In the Rocky Mountains in Banff National Park in Alberta you can see firsthand how Mountain Goats lick at clay deposits to gain salts and other natural nutients that they cannot otherwise get in their diet, especially in winter months. And some will know about how farmers provide salt-licks for cattle, bison and sheep etc as it is an essential of life for them. So I am not so sure about what is so different with pigeons. My own birds have taken a real shine to sea-weed and I feel certain it is because of the salt contained therein. 

I am not sure if this helps at all but I think if I saw my pigeons eating feces I would be thinking about what it is in their diet that is missing as John noted. (John, I know you didn't mention salts specifically but would you mind commenting again please, I could be way off base here too as I am going on common sense alone, but I just feel I am on the right track). 

Cameron


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Cameron,

Hadn't thought specifically about salt but, yes, you are of course right. They do need some salts.

So, guess it depends whethet it is present in Zig's pick pots or grit? Must check what's in our mineral blocks!

John


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

TerriB said:


> ZigZagMarquis said:
> 
> 
> > What flavor probiotics do you use?
> ...


I ordered some from Golbal last night, but reading the product info is says to put it in water, but you say you spread it on their feed? In what ratio do you do that??


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> I ordered some from Golbal last night, but reading the product info is says to put it in water, but you say you spread it on their feed? In what ratio do you do that??


I've had two different veterinarians advise against putting supplements into the water because the bacterial growth in water can be so quick. I would start with just a light sprinkle to let the birds become familiar to the taste. I generally put about 1/4 teaspoon per bird.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I think the birds like to forage Its natural for them to do so. Even when they have a good amount of feed grit and such. As for adding to water. I think that works great. As most often waters are cleaned daily any way. Not much different then making tea in a pitcher. Now I went to just poultry vitamans its got many vits in it. I would say As good as alot of the pigeon supply places have. And much cheaper. As I remember it has not been that many years since the vitimans gained popularity. And Alot of the stuff you by If you look around can be bought local that just as good. But I have zero pigeons now days. But think still pigeons were born to look for food and minerals. Do not over concern some of what you see at times With pigeons.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Good point, re lee! The birds do spend a fair amount of time just puttering around, looking for any interesting "crumbs". Between that, nest building, protecting territory, and bathing (sun or water), these birds have a full schedule!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Terri - 

Even now it still sometimes seems strange to me that our pigeons just appear so content with life in their aviary 

Like you said, they seem to keep well occupied, even if 'occupied' for some is just sitting in a nest box half the day. What with eating, bathing, twig collecting, lounging and preening, exploring and generally wandering about - and interacting with their tame humans - they do have a well rounded lifestyle.

The only two to leave the aviary who were too young to have aligned with a flock outside, just wanted to get back in again. And there they still are today.

But then... when I watch the gang who pretty much live on my balcony, they never go further than the roof across the street despite having the whole world out there for them 

John


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Yep, pigeons are real home-bodies!


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