# Our 7th Batch: Bob and Susie



## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

And we we have a squab! 

Little Bob hatched this morning (Monday morning). The wife looked out before leaving home at 6:40. Little Pidgee was gone, so she could see the eggs. Both still there, she told me before leaving. I got up at 8:20, and there was Bob. Still no Little Pidgee at that time. Must have been out for breakfast. I called the wife to tell her, and she said she had seen something new on one of the eggs, looked sort of like dirt, but she thinks now it was an incipient crack. Mama returned after a while, and mother and squab are out there now, along with Susie still in the other egg.

Looks like there's going to be a problem with Big Pidgee, though. He's not been seen at all for 3-1/2 days now. The last time the wife saw him was late Thursday afternoon when he stopped by for water, and he's not sat on the eggs at all since Wednesday. We were gone all day Saturday, but we're not optimistic he came around that day.

If the wife had not seen him on Thursday, at the end of the first day he missed his shift, I'd be more worried that something happened to him. As it is, I suspect he's done a runner. Very few pigeons seem to be left in the neighborhood now, although other bird life remains; we think he may have flown off with the others. Odd, because he's usually the more conscientious parent. We were home all day yesterday (Sunday) and kept a sharp eye out, but no Big Pidgee, not even for water, a very bad sign indeed. Especially so since Little Pidgee tends to become bored with the squabs after a week or 10 days; after that, it's Big Pidgee who does most of the parenting. Hope he comes back. 

We're sure Bob came out of the first egg laid, as he hatched 18 days after the first one but only 16 days after the second one; from what we've read, 16 days is not long enough to incubate. In the previous batch, which ended up having one unfertilized egg, George could have come from either egg, as he hatched 19 days after the first one and 17 days after the second one, so he could very well have been Gracie instead of George. But this one is definitely the first egg, Bob.

Photos later this week.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Yay more babies! I've been away for a couple of weeks and mine definitely have some eggs somewhere. Not on my balcony though. I think that fact that I've been feeding them has deterred them as they don't get any privacy. The kids still come along for a nibble. In fact today 6month old Bangers was chasing Dad away! They ended up having a girlie fight with pigeon slaps and Dad won in the end. From then on peace as they nibbled away.

Anyway definitely some eggs as Mom and Dad come for nibbles separately and at roughly the end of their shifts.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Wednesday morning, and Bob is two days old. Susie's not hatched yet; I hope it's not another unfertilized egg. 

But Bob is certainly a healthy little squab, and I've taken some photos of mother and child that I'll post soon. I wonder if I'm the first creature to have seen Bob. Little Pidgee was gone when the wife left at 6:40 Monday morning, when Bob was still in the egg; Little Pidgee was gone at 8:20am when I looked out and saw Bob. So maybe Little Pidgee was gone during that entire interval.

And no sign of Big Pidgee. Little Pidgee is having to pull full-time duty as a single mom.  We can't understand what's happened to him. It's been 5-1/2 days now since he was last seen, a full week since he's bothered himself with the eggs. And he was such a family man in the past. Always the better parent, indeed always the squabs' favorite parent. Seemed to like it here better than Little Pidgee did. Lovingly helped Little Pidgee build the current nest. Then Poof! Gone. The wife is afraid something dire has happened to him, but my gut feeling is no. He showed up for water late last Thursday after blowing off egg duty, so that leads me to believe his absence is willful. There's still the odd pigeon or two in the neighborhhod, but the good-sized flock we saw a couple of weeks ago left; I think he went with them. 

Oh, and a link to my previous thread: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/greetings-pigeon-family-photos-from-our-balcony-36140.html


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Shame poor Little Pidgee. I hope Big Pidgee comes back. Maybe it's a blessing for her that only one egg hatched. Only one mouth to feed. Are you ready to step in if she gives up or will you let nature take its course?


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thursday morning, and still no Susie. But we're not quite out of the window for hatching yet, so we still have some hope.

If Little Pidgee abandons Bob, we'll give feeding him a go. Hope it doesn't come to that, though.

This past Sunday, the day before Bob hatched, Little Pidgee kept sitting up on the edge of the balcony peering around, like she was searching for Big Pidgee. Very sad. 

Does anyone know what would have caused Big Pidgee to up and leave like that? We saw him once after he blew off egg duty, so we know he was okay. And his disappearance coincided with that of a sizable flock of pigeons, so we figure he left with them. But we thought pigeons mated for life? And he'd always been the more conscientious one. Lived here for 14 months, too.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Well, this batch seems doomed to tragedy. I looked out this morning to see if Little Pidgee may have eaten any of the food we put out last night, only to find her gone and the egg on the balcony floor over by the "living room"! She often flies straight up out of the box instead of hopping out and taking off from an edge. I speculate the egg may have been stuck on her foot when she flew out. But she definitely managed to knock it out somehow.

There was a small puddle of yellow fluid next to it, and ants swarming everywhere. I poured a little water on the egg to get rid of the ants and then inspected it. Sure enough, there was a little crack in it. Very thin, so I'm sure no ants got inside, but that's where the fluid leaked from. Unlike the unfertilized egg in the previous batch, which felt as light as air, this one had some weight to it. But the egg is 20 days old now, so if Susie was going to hatch out, she probably would have done so by now. At any rate, I don't think the egg getting cracked now would be enough to kill her, as she would probably just finish the job of opening the egg herself at this point. But just in case, I put the egg back into the nest and will leave it for a couple days more. The ants aren't getting into the nest, and I think all of the fluid may have leaked out by now anyway.

The wife blames Big Pidgee for all of the present troubles. He's no longer her hero. This is what happens when you fall in with a bad crowd.

We don't believe there's a food shortage in the area. This is a lush tropical neighborhood, and we're well into the rainy season. Life is burgeoning everywhere. Still, since we don't want Little Pidgee to jump ship either, we decided it was only prudent to make it easier for her to feed. So I did pick up some bird food yesterday. I decided on a canary-and-finch mix, because it contains various grains and some rind. I also picked up some mynah-bird food, which looks a bit like Cocoa Puffs. Mynahs are the next-largest birds in our area, after pigeons. We see a lot of them.

So I put each type of food in its own container and set the containers out next to the water. This morning, I think I detected a small indentation in the canary-and-finch mix, but otherwise the food looked untouched. Little Pidgee was out this morning and came back, then left again without touching the food.

I'll pick up some frozen corn and peas over the weekend, thaw them and put some out to see if she'll eat those. There have been times while feeding the squabs that they've coughed up a kernel of corn, so we know they do like those.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

A weird day, pigeonwise. I mentioned above that despite the crack, I replaced the egg in the nest. Late in the morning, Little Pidgee returned. I looked out after a little while to see the egg now at the far end of the flower box! "What the ...?" I'm thinking. "Did she do that on purpose?" I thought I might put it back one more time, but she didn't leave the nest again before I had to go out. I gave the wife a call in the late afternoon while she was home, and she told me Little Pidgee was gone, so I asked her to go ahead and move the egg back into the nest proper.

But then, a short while after Little Pidgee returned, the wife looked out, and this time the egg was all the way over on the other side of the balcony! With Little Pidgee sitting on the green verge of the balcony. Well, that's it, she must have been trying to get rid of the egg. But how was she moving it???  With her feet? We never saw her actually move the egg.

The wife left the egg where it was, to show me when I came home late tonight. I thought maybe I'd keep it up in the "living room" for a couple of days, but this time when I picked it up, instead of a small crack, there was a hole in it. I could see inside clearly, and it was empty. I thought I'd felt some weight to it in the mornig, but that must have been my imagination. The wife said no ants had been trying to get at it, so the fluid must have all emptied out earlier. Or maybe the weight I felt was more fluid, and it ran out into the nest? But it turns out the egg was unfertilized after all, so I removed it.

That last unfertilized egg, the parents never tried to remove the egg themselves. I finally had to do it after much longer than this. Maybe Little Pidgee is a little stressed right now. 

The wife is wondering if maybe the neighbors above us killed Big Pidgee. We thought he might have been sleeping up on their balcony some nights, as it looked like that was where he flew up to at dusk sometimes. Several of the wife's colleagues know about our pigeons, and they all think he's dead. But I still think not. If the wife had just not seen him that last time after he missed egg duty, I might be inclined to agree, but he missed egg duty willfully on that day for sure, and he disappeared with the other pigeons. I think he's still alive. Hope so, anyway.

Also, late in the morning I saw two pigeons over on the window frames eying our balcony. One of them may have been George, the previous squab.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Saturday morning, and Little Pidgee's away for breakfast. The food we left out remains untouched by her. BUT ... it seems the friggin' ants like mynah-bird food!  They were having a feast when I looked out. Drowned all I could and got rid of the mynah food. They weren't touching the canary-and-finch mix, though.

Bob's five days old and looking big.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

And here are the promised photos. 

*Sunday, July 26*
Mother and eggs.

*Monday, July 27*
Fresh Pidgee! Bob is less than 2 hours old here. And inside the hatched egg; that's some dried fluid in there. Alas! The other egg turned out to be unfertile. And mother and squab.

*Wednesday, July 29*
Little Pidgee with 2-day-old Bob. In this one, he's sleeping at an odd angle. And Mama feeding Bob.

*Thursday, July 30*
Bob at 3 days. Still holding out hope for the other egg. All those feathers in the nest came from Big Pidgee. He lost a lot of feathers recently while preening but didn't look bald; new ones must have been growing in.

*Friday, July 31*
Bob is four days old and a sleepy squab here. This is the day we found the egg outside of the box, and I replaced it in the nest. If you look closely, you can just see it between Little Pidgee's feathers and her foot. But then in this shot, she's moved the egg to the other side of the box! You can see some feathers stuck to it.

*Saturday, August 1*
And that brings us up to today. (Technically yesterday, because it's going on 1am here.) Bob is 5 days old now, and here you can see him working on his tan. Note the egg has now been removed for good after repeated attempts by Little Pidgee to get rid of it. Then we have Bob and me! And a close-up of Bob. His little feet aren't quite good at grasping yet; that will come in a few more days.

And you can see all of these photos on one page here.

One other thing we noticed is that the egg Bob hatched out of has gone missing! Upon close inspection, it doesn't look like it was mulched into the nest. We're thinking Little Pidgee flew it away, both halves. She's never done that before. Of course, she never tried to get rid of the previous unfertilized egg either, but we think she was attempting to get this one out of here, too. Maybe stress is making her more annoyed with these things in her way?

And Little Pidgee's becoming more skittish again. While she's sitting on eggs and for the first few days after hatching, it takes a little effort to scare her away, but now that Bob is a few days old, if we even look at her funny, she'll often scramble over to the rails (leaving Bob to fend for himself).


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Sunday morning, and Little Pidgee simply won't touch any food we put out for her. She clearly just wants to hunt, so okay. We'll leave the other food out for her for a while, though. (The ants like the vegetables, too, but we've propped the dish up now.)

Saw another pigeon over on the window frames when I popped my head out this morning. It became frightened and flew away, but again I think it could have been George.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

So it's finally come to this. It's after 9:30 Sunday night now. Little Pidgee left around 10:30 or 11 this morning and has not returned once. Staying someplace else tonight. By the time it got dark about 7pm, we figured 6-day-old Bob must be starving. I ran out and picked up some corn soup, an eye dropper and a syringe. We brought Bob inside, sat him on some newspapers and fed him the soup.

We called the wife's niece, who keeps a couple of doves and has had to give them medicine before, and she gave us advice about how to open Bob's beak. I opened the beak while the wife administered the soup. She tried the syringe first (there was no needle in it), but the dropper seeemd to work better. Bob seemed to fight less once he realized he was getting fed, or maybe my skill just increased. But we did manage to feed him. Don't know if we fed him too much or too little or what. We fed him until it felt like it was enough, cleaned the soup off of him that didn't make it inside and put him back out. He's still breathing!

I hope Little Pidgee stops by tomorrow. We can't be doing this all day long. But the niece will come by tomorrow evening to help the wife if Little Pidgee does another runner tomorrow night.

He's seems contented and is out there snoozing away now. Before we fed him the corn soup, he kept restlessly poking around in the nest. The poor little guy must have been hungry. May just be exhausted now, too, from his Big Adventure indoors.

Bob is the second squab after George to make it inside.

Does anyone have any other feeding advice?


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Shame. Poor little fellow. I hope Little Pidgee returns. Maybe they were just getting too old to be parents? I'm not sure how many batches parents usually produce. I hope all goes well with Bob. It's going to be difficult for him to realise he's a bird if you have to feed him. You might be stuck with a pet pigeon for life. Not a bad thing..


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Good news! Little Pidgee returned this morning, staretd eating the food we left out and fed Bob.  I posted the following in my thread here requesting feeding advice:

*Good news! Monday morning, and Little Pidgee returned. she fed Bob AND finally realized that stuff we put out was food.

I looked out first thing this morning but no Mama. But what's this? Someone had obviously been into the food. A little grain scattered and many of the vegetables gone, especially the carrots. The ants could not have done that. (The ants seem to have lost interest after I drowned a bunch of them the other day, but it could also be because the veggies dried out after a while.) And the little bit of seed I put in the far end of the flower box was also largely gone. I didn't know for sure it was Little Pidgee eating it, but I took it as a good sign.

Sure enough, in a little while Little Pidgee showed up ... and started eating!  It took her long enough to understand that was food. This being Thailand, maybe she suspected a scam, some hidden charge that she'd get popped with later. But she was eating away. Then went and fed Bob!  Then lounged on the rail for a while.

So the crisis is over. She's gone now, but I feel more sure now that she'll be back, especially since she understands there's food for her out there. I am mighty relieved, as I was not looking forward to trying to feed Bob on my own. There's no telling how that would have gone. I might have ended up inadvertently killing him!

Of course, there's also the fact that right now, late morning, was when she left yesterday and stayed away almost 24 hours. But I'm trying to be optimistic.

Thank you for your help. We'll keep the info for later use if we need it.*


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

And sure enough, she's back out there now. Hanging out on the rail after eating some more.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm so glad that Little Pidgee is back. Yes it does sound like she'll be back. Maybe she went on a search and recovery mission for Big Pidgee. I guess if Big Pidgee is gone this will be your last batch. A little sad.

I must say that I think you are right about the food and Little Pidgee not really knowing what to do with it. I had a similar experience with my ferals. I used to leave them food in the flower box where they were born. It seemed like a good idea as they would get the grit as well that they needed. The only problem was that if i was away for any length of time (which I often am) then they would finish all the food and start digging all the soil out of the flower box looking for more. It made quite a mess so I decided to leave their food in a plastic dish.

Well this created an interesting reaction. The babies were a few months old at this stage but they had absolutely no idea what to do. In fact they were scared of the container. For most of that first day the two of them paced up and down the balcony rail, every so often getting up enough courage to almost jump down. They would stop, lean forward, stare down at the food and then chicken out (or is it pigeon out). This went on for ages until one of them eventually had the courage to go down and investigate. Once it seemed all good the other followed and they have been fine since.

Maybe Little Pidgee had the same problem, although she seems far too intelligent for that.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Makes you wonder how they eventually do figure out it's food.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

It's the noon hour now, and there's been quite a development. Not only has this Stranger pigeon been hanging around more, but .. Little Pidgee has been having wild unadulterated sex with the Stranger right outside in the designated sex area! !

She and the Stranger were being awfully affectionate with each other, too. I guess this may be the new man in Little Pidgee's life. Perhaps a clear indication that Big Pidgee is out of the picture for good. Or will he show up one day and wreak vengeance on the Stranger? If nothing else, perhaps the Stranger can keep other pigeons away if any others do show up.

I hope the Stranger is not a close relative, like say a son! Will have to review photos and see who he could be, with his socky feet. Is there much known about pigeons mating with offspring?

He has those overly feathery "socky feet" that some of the squabs ended up with. Except for that and his feet not being as brightly fuchsia-colored as Litle Pidgee's, he looks just like her. A little bigger, of course, being a male.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Wow. That is quite a development. So I wonder if the kid is his? DNA testing....
Either Big Pidgee left cos he found out, or Little Pidgee found a new mate cos Big Pidgee left. Hmmm... Pigeon psychology.
My guess would be on the former seeing as Big Pidgee was such a good dad and how else would a single mother pick up a guy while tending to the nest?
Have they been looking Bob at least. I hope he doesn't get neglected in this love triangle.

The good news is that you may be getting a new batch of squabs after all, and sooner than you think. I don't know about incest in pigeons, but there are so many about there is a good chance it isn't. I must say I often wonder if they actually remember who their parents are. But who knows what's going on in a pigeon's mind.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

I think Bob is Big Pidgee's. The Stranger seems to be someone Little Pidgee just took up with. Apparently, the grieving period for pigeons does not extend beyond a week and a half!

Wednesday morning, and Bob is 9 days old. Little Pidgee is still staying here at night; looks like she ate some of the food for breakfast. Have not seen her or the Stranger this morning, though.

Bob's feather shafts are coming out more clearly, with just the beginnings of feathers poking out. Looks like he'll be light-colored. This morning, I saw him trying to stand up for the first time, too. But he's been able to scoot over to the other side of the flower box and back for a day or two now, sooner I think than previous squabs have been able to. That could be because the nest does not seem to curve up as much this time to form a barrier.

Like some other squabs we've seen, though, he's breathing heavily. But when I go out and pick him up, he stops doing that and seems okay. It is hot outside even though he's in the shade most of the time; this IS Thailand after all. He seems the most okay so far with being picked up than any other squab we've seen. I wonder if he may have bonded with me during Sunday night's feeding. More than likely instinct will kick in in another couple of days, and he'll freak out when he sees me coming, like all the others have.

Little Pidgee really likes the food now that she knows it's there. The wife watched her eat for 15 minutes straight yesterday evening. We still can't believe a neighborhood food shortage drove all those other pigeons away, including Big Pidgee; everything is so lush out there. But maybe. Could be why Little Pidgee eats so much here. On the other hand, this is probably gourmet fare for her, not to mention the first time she's ever seen so much food in one place. Whatever keeps her around until Bob is grown.

The wife's niece, the one who keeps the two doves, also thinks Big Pidgee is probably dead. Maybe attacked, like by a cat. I'm still holding out hope, though. If he just had not been seen after abandoning his egg duties, I would probably agree. But again, that and the fact his disappearance coincided with that of all the other pigeons leads me to believe he's out there somewhere.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm glad Bob's being looked after. I'm sure he would beg, bother and squeak to Little Pidgee a lot more if we was very hungry.

If she has a new mate, he'll decide where to lay the eggs. If they are having sex five times a day, that may be sooner than you think. Hopefully he gets used to you and the balcony is still the place to be.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

*Duplicate post*


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Bob died last night. 

See my post in my Feeding Advice Requested thread.


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## clucklebeed (Jul 30, 2009)

So sorry about bob Its hard when they die old but even sadder when they die young


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Well, the Dalmatian -- a white pigeon with black speckles that had been hanging out here -- seems to have decided to move on. But Sunday saw a flurry of pidgee activity, with several of the old squabs showing up. Katie seemed willing to fight for the space, like she did before with Big Pidgee. We had thought he (we now know Katie's a he) had hooked up with Sammy from a different batch, but he showed up with the mate, and then another Sammy-looking bird showed up. So who knows which one was Sammy. Katie prepared to fight the new Sammy until we broke it up, and he also wanted to fight the Stranger, who if he really is Marty then is Katie's direct sibling. Even little Holly, about 6 months old now, showed up, still with a bumpy head. And 3-month-old George has been sighted. The wife wondered if maybe the pigeons assassinated Big Pidgee to take over our balcony.

But since Sunday, almost nothing.  We're getting a new box and putting it out, to see what develops. Figure the Stranger and Little Pidgee have nested elsewhere by now. If anything does develop, I'll be sure to let you know.


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