# Flying Machine - a super bird?



## toilco

What makes a racing pigeon become super bird? Flying Machine was bred in 1984 by Jaime Lim, one of the top fanciers in the Philippines and his bird flying machine is very very famous until now but when i check his race record, he is not even close those bird in europe, his record is not that amazing but why Jaime Lim consider it a super bird? can you guys check it for me, maybe i miss something, here is the link

http://advancedloft.com/bloodlines2.php?bloodlines=Pedigree

choose #8 ,thanks


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## rpalmer

toilco said:


> What makes a racing pigeon become super bird? Flying Machine was bred in 1984 by Jaime Lim, one of the top fanciers in the Philippines and his bird flying machine is very very famous until now but when i check his race record, he is not even close those bird in europe, his record is not that amazing but why Jaime Lim consider it a super bird? can you guys check it for me, maybe i miss something, here is the link
> 
> http://advancedloft.com/bloodlines2.php?bloodlines=Pedigree
> 
> choose #8 ,thanks


The pedigree (breeding record) has the bird's name, sex, color, band number and what is either the current owner or breeder and races worth mentioning for that single bird. The birds listed before it have left out color.

If you go back on the G.G. Dam of the G. Dam on the Dam's side that is the only mention of blood.

Long story short, this might fly in some lofts but never mine. That pedigree, if printed out, would only be good for scrap paper. Worthless. But that is just me. No wonder you want to know what makes it great. You can't tell anything form that pedigree.


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## toilco

i found another article about Jaime Lim

Jaime Lim (ADVANCED HOBBYIST LOFT) By: Jimmy Ibanez
Posted by Webmaster on June 6, 2011 at 2:02 AM 

Jaime Lim (ADVANCED HOBBYIST LOFT)

By: Jimmy Ibanez



One of the most awaited faces in the pigeon sport is Mr.Jaime Lim. Having countless wins, would surely tell us that he already has more knowledge in keeping racing pigeons. We decided to have him as our cover story not just to know him and his pigeons but if we can convince him to reveal his secrets of success. Will he?

March 23,2003, I would says,was not a very good day for fanciers who’ve been waiting for their birds to arrive from Maasin,Leyte. For me it was a wonderful day. It was the schedule for me to visit Mr.Jaime Lim. Together with Gary Murtz and some other friends we headed to the ADVANCED HOBBYIST LOFT personally owned by Mr.Jaime Lim. He greeted us with smile and accompanied us to his office. There we met Mr. Tommy So and Ramon Ong. After some introduction we went through his loft. Like Netherland and Belgian racers, his loft lies inside the house. We were amazed of what we have seen. For me it was very nice. He has 5 sets of cages for breeders which are adjacent so that the breeders would go out anytime they wanted. They also have shower rooms, where the birds can take a bath. It’s just like shower room for everybody.



HOW IT ALL BEGAN:

Mr. Jaime Lim’s story begins in 1960.It was during his college days that he became passionately interested in pigeons. He started keeping some fancy pigeons in his loft, but he was not active in racing at that time.

In 9182, he and his cousin Jeffrey Yang was about to get some Jacobins fancy pigeons from his uncle Mr.Victor Lim, but he had no fancy birds because he was into pigeon racing already. His uncle convinced him to get into racing sport. According to him (Mr.Victor Lim) it was more thrilling exciting and more challenging. Victor Lim gave him 20 birds to start with. He also recommend him to PHA wherein Mr. Victor Lim was the treasurer of the club.



FIRST RACE

It was his first year in racing, when he luckily won Naga Race in 1983. At first he thought that pigeon racing was so easy, but on the succeeding years he never won any champion again.



IDOLS

“Number one is my uncle Mr.Victor Lim, other idols includes Rey So, Peter See, Victor Ocampo Tan. Mr. Vicente Ngo, Cham Tian Seng and Cham Teng Hui.



HOW ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE STRAINS or LINE? OR DO YOU REALLY STICK INTO THE BREEDS OF YOUR MENTOR. ( VICTOR LIM)

“ Yes, his line is crossed between Ko Nipus, Stichelbault and Van den Broucke. The first time I joined PHA, Mr. Victor Lim gave me 20 birds, and reminded me that 2 out 20 birds which ring number ended 51 and 52 should closely monitored because these birds would bring me success. When I entered 51 in Basco, unfortunately the bird was lost. So I kept 52, that’s why my foundation line now is 52. I named it “CRACK 52” my top foundation cock.



FLYING MACHINE

It has the same line of “CRACK 52” which won champion in the Tacloban Race, way back I think year 1984.



WHO BREED FLYING MACHINE?

“I was the one who bred that, and the bloodline is from 52 lines of course, crossed to Bricoux line.”



RACING AND BREEDING PROGRAM

How do you select and pair up your birds?

What qualities are you very particular with?

“I’m very much particular in bloodline, to be frank I don’t know how to examine a bird by just its body, muscle or looking at the eye sign. Before I breed , it took 2 months every night studying the pedigree before the actual pairing. I LINE BREED a lot, as you can see on my pedigrees, my purpose is to fix the genetic characteristics of each bird, because when I cross it should be of the same characteristic and size.



Medication program you give to your breeders and racers?

“Actually, I use vitamins but not much”.



FEEDING SYSTEM

How about your feeding system for the cocks and hens in the north and south races does it have any difference?

“For cocks and hens it’s the same .I give more corn in the south race because it has longer distance compared to the north. The whole week before basketing they are given racing mixture by adding some more corn into it as the race goes on.



TRAINING SYSTEM

How do you train your flyer?

“Normally they flew 1 ½ hours in the morning and 1 ½ hours in the afternoon without forcing them. Then I kept them out the whole day. I train my pigeon a lot because I believe the bird exercising in the loft and training are different.



MOTIVATION

Do you use any racing system like widowhood, darkening or natural systems?

“No just fly to the perch”



Celibacy?

“ Yes, I separate the cocks from the hens”



Do you let your widowers get to see their hens before basketing, which some others do?

”I don’t do that, because I feel that the cock would get stressed the same thing with the hen.”



TIPS for the BEGINNERS

What are your secrets in success?

“I would give this recipe: 1/3 bloodline, 1/3 loft management, and lastly 1/3 for luck.”



Purchasing of birds:

Mr.Jaime Lim says to be successful in pigeon racing you must start with a very good bloodline. With regards to purchasing of birds he advises us to purchase local strains than acquiring imported ones, because he believes that local birds are more adaptable in the type of racing pigeon here in the Philippines. Through his experience of importing he noticed that is very hard to find the type of bird that would suit the weather condition here. We have to consider some factors such as mountain ranges , seas to cross eagles that would test our bird’s homing capabilities. Unlike in Europe all you have to consider is the winter season. We have some good racer here whose line came from an imported strain but according to Mr.Jaime Lim they already established their winning strain therefore they just line breed it.

Disciplined is also very important. You have to care for your birds everyday and if you have no more time for them see to it that you have a caretaker or loft manager to look after them. He tells us not to rely on just luck because according to him even if you have a winning strain but if the birds are not well managed then its useless.

Categories: None


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## ace in the hole

toilco said:


> What makes a racing pigeon become super bird? Flying Machine was bred in 1984 by Jaime Lim, one of the top fanciers in the Philippines and his bird flying machine is very very famous until now but when i check his race record, he is not even close those bird in europe, his record is not that amazing but why Jaime Lim consider it a super bird? can you guys check it for me, maybe i miss something, here is the link
> 
> http://advancedloft.com/bloodlines2.php?bloodlines=Pedigree
> 
> choose #8 ,thanks


It may not be what he did but what he bred. He may have produced many good racers and that is why he is known as a super bird.


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## sky tx

My pigeons may not win many Races---
But they can pull a Frieght Train--Couple them up.
Would that make them a "SUPER" pigeon?????????


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## toilco

ace in the hole said:


> It may not be what he did but what he bred. He may have produced many good racers and that is why he is known as a super bird.


then flying machine is like surebet  or better because it states there 3 generations of champion, his flying machine line still famous and still winning from different clubs, we have almost 100 clubs here, and PHA (Phillipine Homing Association) is at the top. Jaime Lim still active and still winning and he recently bought 6 pigeons from europe worth $139,000 (more or less) and secretly didn't mention what line, didn't even post it in his website. Im sure next year race his competitors will be shock who will be at the top of the race sheets hehehhe.


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## toilco

well flying machine was bred in 1984, its been linebreeding for 28 years, you have to introduced new blood in your family once in a while.


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## Matt M

toilco said:


> What makes a racing pigeon become super bird? Flying Machine was bred in 1984 by Jaime Lim, one of the top fanciers in the Philippines and his bird flying machine is very very famous until now but when i check his race record, he is not even close those bird in europe, his record is not that amazing but why Jaime Lim consider it a super bird? can you guys check it for me, maybe i miss something, here is the link
> 
> http://advancedloft.com/bloodlines2.php?bloodlines=Pedigree
> 
> choose #8 ,thanks


My question is why are you trying to bring some free attention to some guy's birds in the Phillipines? A few months ago you were also on here talking about "Flying Machine" and saying 1/2 your young birds were from that wonder pigeon which is from the best guy in the Phillippines, sounded like you were friends with Mr. Lim the breeder... Now you're on here questioning the "super" bird's record, while getting everybody to click over to the pedigree and website? Free publicity or is there a real legitimate reason you're asking this?


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## toilco

your imagining too much, im not a friend of jaime lim, im just curious coz every philipine pigeon forum i go, they are always talking about this bird, i dont even know recently jaime lim have a website, in his website pure flying machine line worth 50,000, thats a lot of money here, average price of pigeon here is around 300 to 1,000... see the difference, and i bought a flying machine line worth 1,000 ....im not sure if its a flying machine line, the seller said it is, we will never know...and im amazed with this bird, i've never lost a single bird with this line, if you lost yb in training you'' expect it will be back in 2 days, their desire to go home is too strong.


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## rpalmer

Your original post asked a question. 



toilco said:


> What makes a racing pigeon become super bird? Flying Machine was bred in 1984 by Jaime Lim, one of the top fanciers in the Philippines and his bird flying machine is very very famous until now but when i check his race record, he is not even close those bird in europe, his record is not that amazing but why Jaime Lim consider it a super bird? can you guys check it for me, maybe i miss something, here is the link


Now you are going on about how great the bird is. I just don't know what to say to you that is not really rude. So use you imagination and quit being stupid.


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## Matt M

toilco said:


> your imagining too much, im not a friend of jaime lim, im just curious coz every philipine pigeon forum i go, they are always talking about this bird, i dont even know recently jaime lim have a website


If everyone is talking about this wonder bird on all the Philippine pigeon forums then maybe you should post your question on there. Exactly how many Philippine pigeon forums are there? I can't think there are all that many but maybe the audience on those will be more interested in the topic.

As for "I don't even know the guy has a website" -- you posted a link to it!

None of your posts make any sense to me but good luck with your birds.


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## toilco

i've been in pigeon racing for almost a year now, when i bought flying machine line i didn't know jaime lim have website, just recently...i dont even know who are those well known local fanciers here. I posted it here because i cant relate with philippine fanciers, their knowledge about pigeon racing is different from other countries, here they say sprint, middle and long distance doesn't exist, there is no sprint, middle or long distance races here, they mix all birds here, sprint to middle, or sprint to long, vice versa....they say its because of our different climate and mountain range not like in america and europe where there is vast flat areas, here its mountainous , and i have no right to argue with them coz they have been around the sports for decades, im just a newbie, why you guys are so mean? im just asking a simple question, if you can't help me then dont post your replies here.....if you tell me again why ask help here, we dont even know flying machine,,,,,,i gave the link,and read the pedigree coz im not expert in reading pedigree, sometimes im confuse, i dont know what makes a bird great, for example bird A won 3 x first lap place out of 5 laps, but then the owner consider Bird B more superior than A, but when you look at the pedigree, that bird B didn't even won any first place, what you see is 3, 19, 25, 5, etc....

Why you guys are not happy when someone post something like this? im still learning the sport, are not you happy that this newbie is excited to learn the sport eventhough he posted nonsense thread? you guys are the one ruining the sport, how can you hooks someone if you discouraged them? i posted many thread which are nonsense in your point of view but not to newbies like me, when a newbie or any person who is not into pigeon racing read my thread (which is nonsense to you) he will learn something, maybe by just reading it, he is already hook, maybe he is already planning to buy some racing, we never know what's in their mind, you see, by just reading my nonsense thread you have hook another soon to be fancier, so please respect my thread


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## lgfout

toilco said:


> your imagining too much, im not a friend of jaime lim, im just curious coz every philipine pigeon forum i go, they are always talking about this bird, i dont even know recently jaime lim have a website, in his website pure flying machine line worth 50,000, thats a lot of money here, average price of pigeon here is around 300 to 1,000... see the difference, and i bought a flying machine line worth 1,000 ....im not sure if its a flying machine line, the seller said it is, we will never know...and im amazed with this bird, i've never lost a single bird with this line, if you lost yb in training you'' expect it will be back in 2 days, their desire to go home is too strong.


Hi - I assume you are talking about php not usd cause that would make a big difference ... 50,000 PHP = 1,178.70 USD
I agree with another poster who suggests to post on the Philippine pigeon forum. There are some very knowledgeable people who post there. Perhaps they can give you a clear perspective of what you want to know for 2 reasons. One is if your language is Tagalog it is better to discuss it in that language because many phrases are not really clear when translating in English. I think you may be losing something in the translation in other words.
Secondly people on those forums would be more knowledgeable about the history of the strains in the Philippines. Sounds like Mr. Lim is one of the founders of modern day pigeon racing in the Philippines by importing quality birds there?? maybe I am wrong.

Take care and I hope you find the answer you seek...whatever that may be.


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## Xueoo

It's a super bird if everybody is talking about it, regardless of what some may think. The race record may not be “super” if those were placed out of 200-300 pigeons, but, if they were from 2000-3000 pigeons, then it could be considered a "super pigeon". Also, if it's still being talked about today, being a 1984 bird, and the “line“ is still in existence, then it has to do with his breeding history. 

That whole pedigree doesn’t show “super” in it’s results or the results of the birds before him. The race positions need to show how many birds in the race, example, 23 out of 1000 birds; 45 out of 3500 birds, etc. A position of 23 out of 50 birds is not good, but, 23 out of 1000 is…so it needs to show the total number of birds in the race to determine how good it is. 

A better understanding of his history would be pedigree’s with his family’s results after him.


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## mikel

well im afrom the philippines also,jaime lim is 1 of the founders of modern day pigeon racing but i think flying machine is not a super bird,there is a lot of good racers in the PHA other than jaime lim,sad to say a lot of those fake "flying machine line" is being produced for the money...


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## APF_LOFT

toilco said:


> TRAINING SYSTEM
> 
> How do you train your flyer?
> 
> “Normally they flew 1 ½ hours in the morning and 1 ½ hours in the afternoon without forcing them. Then I kept them out the whole day. I train my pigeon a lot because I believe the bird exercising in the loft and training are different.



without forcing them? i think you lie about this. i saw in tv that the keeper of his loft flag the bird and use some kind of fire works to make them stay in the air.


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## APF_LOFT

toilco said:


> i found another article about Jaime Lim
> 
> Purchasing of birds:
> 
> Mr.Jaime Lim says to be successful in pigeon racing you must start with a very good bloodline. With regards to purchasing of birds he advises us to purchase local strains than acquiring imported ones, because he believes that local birds are more adaptable in the type of racing pigeon here in the Philippines. Through his experience of importing he noticed that is very hard to find the type of bird that would suit the weather condition here. We have to consider some factors such as mountain ranges , seas to cross eagles that would test our bird’s homing capabilities. Unlike in Europe all you have to consider is the winter season. We have some good racer here whose line came from an imported strain but according to Mr.Jaime Lim they already established their winning strain therefore they just line breed it.
> 
> Disciplined is also very important. You have to care for your birds everyday and if you have no more time for them see to it that you have a caretaker or loft manager to look after them. He tells us not to rely on just luck because according to him even if you have a winning strain but if the birds are not well managed then its useless.
> 
> Categories: None



lol he recently bought a champion bird from US i saw that also in local tv network i think it cost around 250,000pesos

maybe he use also taiwan bird.


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