# Strange Pigeon disease



## Peejoo (Apr 19, 2002)

I had a very healthy Feral pigeon couple live in my balcony. We fed them very well, all kind of varied pigeon food, grains, bread and vitamins. The chicks are born and grow happily till they are about 20 days old and ready to take a walk. However suddenly they are unable to stand on their feet. And in a day or two they stop eating, the parents stop feeding and the poor chicks die even though I have tried very hard to feed them. 
This has happened 3 times in past 1 year.No chick has survived. 
Even more bizzare was the case of the only chick that survived 3.5 months. It too went through same condition and was not being fed when I separated it from parents and started feeding it. However it developed constipation and almost died. Just when it was recovering suddenly it lost all strength in one of its leg as if the nerves stopped working. There was no sign of any injury at all. 
Miraculously it survied again and continued to grow but it appeared that its brain was like that of a chick. It learnt flying when of 3.5 monts age, then suddenly without any injury at all its leg stopped working. The next day it was rolling on the floor trying to walk. On the next day it vomitted and died within 3 hours last week on this very day. 
Does anyone have any idea what is going on? Why all these chicks are losing strength after 3-4 weeks? Could it be a genetical defect in the couple? And what could have happened to this last chick..it seemed to do well and then suddenly..
Can someone suggest anything please?


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi, there:

A genetic defect is always possible.

But I'm thinking paratyphoid (salmonellosis) or paramyxovirus (PMV). The first is a bacterial infection which can be treated with antibiotics (no guaranty). The latter is a viral infection, and like all viruses, we have no cure for it, but we can vaccinate against it and treat any secondary infections.

Pigeons may survive PMV, but may be forever compromised after the experience. A few seem to recover fully. Many die.

Both diseases can attack the bird's nervous system, making normal function impossible.

A pigeon may survive a case of paratyphoid if its immune system can prevent the disease from firmly taking hold. In addition to neurological problems, paratyphoid may target the joints and cause swelling and pain, making walking, flying, etc., impossible.









Salmonella (paratyphoid) can be significantly reduced by acidifying the pigeon's droppings. One safe way to do this is to add 1 tsp. PLAIN chlorine bleach to one gallon of drinking water. The bleach-treated water should be changed daily.

--Ray


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## indie backroll (Aug 3, 2001)

I thought that bleach was not to be used anymore and you should use vinegar instead.

Does anyone else remember this discussion?

This sounds like PMV to me, but I'm not an avian vet. The parents could be imune to it and it could be just affecting the squabies.

I'll look into the bleach issue right now.
~Brian


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## indie backroll (Aug 3, 2001)

Here it is:

Topic:	Bleach warning
posted December 22, 2001 20:47 ÊÊÊ Ê ÊÊ ÊÊ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
For those who use bleach in drinking water:
A warning is going around in rehab circles warning against using any ULTRA bleaches.
This info was taken from the internet (I don't know the source), and printed in Wildlife Rehab Today:
"Clorox has reportedly changed its formulation and been renamed Ultra Clorox.
"The new product is no longer simple chlorite (5.25% sodium hypochlorite with inert ingredients--water). It is now composed of sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide (otherwise known as lye)....
"Lye is very caustic and difficult to rinse off of surfaces.
"Do not use Ultra bleach to disinfect floors, carriers, cages and of course feeding/water dishes"
That it should not be used in drinking water is obvious. 
Make sure you are buying the plain bleach, without additional chemicals.
Marian 

Marion knows her stuff..
There is a whole discussion regarding this topic.
~Brian


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Clorox clarified their position by ststing that the PLAIN bleach is not reformulated.

Generic PLAIN bleach would be fine--no "lemon scent", no nothing! Just plain bleach at 1 tsp/gallon of water.

See David Marx's article, The Miracle Of Chlorine, at the AU web site.

But you're quite right, Apple Cider Vinegar at 1/4 cup per gallon of water is an alternative water treatment, as it will acidify the water and pigeon droppings slightly at that ratio--but vinegar is not a disinfectant, in the way that bleach is.

--Ray


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

What the hell, here's the article...

By way of explanation, Marx is a DVM and experienced racing enthusiast

--Ray

*****
by Dr. David Marx 

THE "MIRACLE" OF CHLORINE 

The addition of common household bleach to the drinking water does, indeed, have beneficial effects on pigeon health. This seems a little weird since the drinking of cholrinated water has negative implications in human health, especially with suggestions that it may be incriminated in the increased rate of cancer. Chlorine is a strong chemical which binds to most organic molecules and can change their chemical identity, making some non-toxic compounds become toxic. Personally, I use a filter on my drinking water which removes chlorine; but my pigeons drink a lot of it with what I percieve as beneficial effects. NEVER PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THE DRINKING WATER AT THE SAME TIME AS CHLORINE. 

The ususal method of treating the drinking water is to add 1 to 2 teaspoonsful of common household bleach, such as Clorox or Purex, to each gallon of water. The amount varies depending on the temperature. When it is hot the chlorine leaves the water faster, so use more; when it is cold, it leaves the water slowly so use less. 

Chlorine is a very strong disinfectant and keeps the water-transmission of disease organisms to a minimum. Most diseases of pigeons can be spread via the drinking water, so the judicious use of a disinfectant can prevent some of the things that our pigeons may be exposed to. There may be a hidden benefit as well: the increased consumption of chlorine, which in turn is eliminated by the kidneys, produces a more acid urine. The urine is excreted along with the feces (it is the white cap on the feces). This net result is a more acidic dropping. Salmonella, and other bacteria, dislikes an acidic environment. This may decrease the environmental proliferation of the bacteria, making it less likely for pigeons to contract an infective dose. This is theory, and not proven scientific fact, so take it for what it is worth. I have given it a lot of thought and concluded that this is why lofts that deal with paratyphoid do better after treatment, if the birds are kept on this chlorinated water. 

I handled convention race birds this last spring/summer. The only thing that I did for the birds was to keep them on chlorinated water. Mine was the only loft that experienced no sick pigeons. Is that coincidence? I think it probably isn't. 

I also theorize that drinking this chlorinated water has a negative influence on the trichomonads in the oral cavity. I need to do some simple research to confirm this but, in my mind, it should have some effect on the numbers of these organisms. It at least will minimize the water transmission of trichomonas; and this is the main route of spread. 

Remember: NEVER PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THE WATER AT THE SAME TIME AS CHLORINE. IT WILL PROBABLY NEUTRALIZE THESE COMPOUNDS OR RENDER THEM TOXIC TO THE BIRDS. When wanting to give vitamins or a treatment for coccicia, worms, or trichomonas, etc., simply leave out the chlorine for those days and then resume when the dosing is completed. Household bleach should not be considered a treatment, but only a preventive measure. 


David E. Marx D.V.M. 
Golden Valley Pet and Pigeon Clinic 
2707 NW 60th Ave. 
Norman, OK 73072 
1-900-737-MARX


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## joann woodring (Mar 27, 2002)

Hi!
The information about chlorine in drinking water is very interesting and also surprising to me. I thought chlorine was bad for all organisms. I wonder if the chloramine (chlorine and ammonia) which has been added to our municipal drinking water is a subsitute. Does anyone know?

Thanks, Joann


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi, Joann:

Chlorine is a poison gas. Then again, many medications are toxic beyond their prescribed doses.

In an imperfect world, chlorine is a stop-gap measure that has been shown to improve overall health conditions in a loft situation. It has also been shown to reduce the spread of paratyphoid.

With that, I suggested it to Peejoo, who started this thread, as "something" that might be done with things at hand, to help the next generation.

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Although there is no way of proving it and this is just a guess, this sounds very much like the adults have a low level paratyphoid infection and that is deadly to chicks and youngsters. 

------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Fred:

I think your instincts serve you well, my friend. 

The sudden death of the very young--though in this case they're a wee bit old--is classic paratyphoid. Perhaps, these are the atypical symptoms sometimes observed.

--Ray


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## Peejoo (Apr 19, 2002)

Thanks a lot all of you for your replies.
I think it may be a bacterial infection or some genetic defect. And the last chick definetly had something affect its nervous system as it always seemed to behave like a very young chick althouh was 3 months old.
That made it all the most dear to us....
anyways I will see if more care can be taken next time.
Thanks again


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