# Do I listen to this vet?



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

I recently rushed Brownie to the vet. "He" looked like he had lost weight, and two baths in a row had failed to preen/groom for quite some time. Unusual for him.

I had every test in the book run on him, including DNA. Turns out "he" is a she!

She had parasites, for which I received meds. Was told not very serious.

But - the vet told me it's very! dangerous for pigeons to lay eggs, and can really shorten their life span. She told me not to pet her, except on her head, as it would sexually stimulate her, and increase egg laying chances. (I swear she said this!)

After a short spell of this, I decided it was unfair to Brownie not to give her any affection, and started petting her again.

But I'm still really worried. The vet told me to remove box and nesting materials.

Is she a kook? Feedback please.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Brownieluv,

Actually the vet is pretty right on except for the part about it being so dangerous for female pigeons to lay eggs. It's what they do, for cripes sake. If Brownie has good nutrition, calcium, and natural sunlight, she will be fine. It is true that a single pigeon that "selects" a human as a mate can be stimulated by preening, stroking, and you just generally loving the bird.

IMO, I don't think any of this causes a life threatening situation. It is always better/safer to have fewer egg laying episodes, but I just can't go there all the way on this one.

Just posted to you in another thread that your other two rescues are both females also  The one really had me fooled .. so very, very aggressive.

If you get Brownie a male friend, I can assure you that the "nookie" and egg laying and nesting will be much more serious than with you as a mate.

Let's let others chime in here .. we have many members who are "mated" to a pigeon ..

Terry


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Last night I was doing some reading on the subject of determining the sex of a pigeon and recall reading that a female pigeon can also be stimulated just by looking at another male pigeon and often times her own reflection.The male pigeon of course is needed to add the right " recipe "to fertilize the egg . Your doctor is pretty much right except where as Terry already mentioned.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Laying eggs can shorten a lifespan?

I would like to see the research on that. The vet must have had some considerations in mind before making that kind of statement. Like egg production that goes on unabated can start leaching calcium from bones or something like that......

But what I was most interested in was...did you say you got a DNA test done? I had no idea these were commonly available for pets. How much did it cost, what did it tell you, so many questions to ask. DNA for pets is a great idea but my vet does not offer it (yet).

I hope you will write back to me about this.

Cameron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Cameron, we do DNA testing routinely on pet birds in the clinic. All you need is a drop of blood. This is send out to a laboratory who does the DNA testing. It takes two weeks for the results to come in.
Cost 45$.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It is absolutely true about hens "falling in love" with their human caregivers. I have a few like that.

I also heard that a hen merely has to just "think" she is in love, there has to be no act or anything, just thinking they are in love will stimulate egg production.

As for egg-laying being dangerous to their health, that is very untrue. As long as your bird gets all the nutrition, calcium etc that has been mentioned, and excercise, she will be fine. I think lack of excercise, incorrect diet and overeating does a pigeon much more harm then love and attention!


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

But - the vet told me it's very! dangerous for pigeons to lay eggs, and can really shorten their life span.
**********************************************************
Let me put this the way it should have been stated.

It is very dangerous for ANY bird to keep laying batches of eggs continuously without a rest once in a while and without a highly nutritious diet which includes all the supplements necessary to keep a bird in tip top health. The reason being that repeated egg *forming* (not laying) can cause a serious depletion in calcium reserves which can lead to fatal results.

A story half told is not worth telling at all and only leads to confusion and unecessary worry - as we have seen here.

There are various ways of cutting down egg production and I'm sure there are people out there more experienced than I am on this subject. It might pay to do a little research on the internet if you're able to.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> *I also heard that a hen merely has to just "think" she is in love, there has to be no act or anything, just thinking they are in love will stimulate egg production.*


Our Rae Charles is proof positive of this.
Before she met Pij, she would coo, dance & even fan her tail when I would talk to her. We thought all along she was a male, until I found an egg on the floor of her 'apartment'. 
After she & Pij became 'friends' (they were never together physically) she stopped the cooing, dancing, etc., & began to lay eggs.

Since Pij has passed away, she has gone back to the cooing, dancing, etc. Although just in the past week she has laid a couple eggs.  
This may have something to do with Malio now visiting with her.

Does anyone know how common it is for a female to display male 'actions' *and* at the same time lay eggs? 

Cindy


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I like Helen's explanation.

Cindy, our "Chickpea" just had to be a male with the dancing, cooing, bowing and defending a box. Then 'he' laid an egg 

She still does all the actions, but most of it seems to be directed at getting my attention when I'm cleaning up. I think the only time she does lay eggs, though, is after a fling with "Gurdy" from whom she 'leased' her box.

John


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

John_D said:


> I like Helen's explanation.
> 
> Cindy, our "Chickpea" just had to be a male with the dancing, cooing, bowing and defending a box. Then 'he' laid an egg
> 
> ...


I spoke of the hen that got shipped as a cock her first year racing. She's just been pulled from the loft where the cocks are. For the past two months she didn't give me the time of day, all her attentions were for her mate and babies. Now that she is back with the hens only, just this morning, she's doing her little dance, fanning her tail and weaving in between my feet while I'm trying to clean, trying to get my attention. All if have to do is walk into the loft and say, "that's my baby girl" and here she goes.........maybe I'll take the camera out later and see if she will "perform" for me and get it on video......LOL You ask if it's common.......well out of about 50 or so hens, she's the only one I have that acts this way..........


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

When I read about this vet's warning re egg laying, I was immediately concerned as my singly kept hen Jax lays eggs all year round with sometimes only 5 or 6 weeks between each clutch.

She lives with me in my small flat and is definately 'in love' with me. When she is sitting on her eggs (like presently) she has very little to do with me. She comes down from her nest to poop, eat, drink and have a weekly/twice weekly bath then she's back on her nest. During this time she acts like she's afraid of me sometimes and displays what looks like a nervous shiver if I approach her to pet her. When she's bored with her eggs after about 3 to 4 weeks, she still keeps her distance from me for about a week then she is all over me, following me everywhere, wanting to be petted and fussed over. She definately displays male behaviour by puffing up her neck feathers, cooing, opening her wings out and tail fanning. When she is particularly broody, she also tries to mate on me. Close to egg-laying she makes a 'growling' type of sound which heightens if I go to speak to her and scritch her neck. 

I don't know if anybody elses hen does this, but it appears that Jax gets very jealous if I am, in her eyes, 'giving attention' to a glass of wine etc. she sometimes runs at me and wing slaps the glass and me in what seems like a jealous fit of rage. When I say 'NO' to her and try to push her away, she just runs at me again, slapping away. The glass/tumber usually has to be put aside out of her way and she's happy and lovey dovey again.

I'm glad that others have put the record straight about this vet's advice, or rather the information not given, but I do worry about Jax laying so many eggs. I would find it difficult to ignore her when she wants attention and cuddles yet am afraid I am doing her health harm by responding to her. I am unsure of her exact age as I adopted her when she was young but I've had her for just over 2 years so I guess she is about 2 and a half. What is the average age-span for a pigeon?

Lindi


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Rooster2312 said:


> What is the average age-span for a pigeon?
> 
> Lindi



Hi Lindi, 

A good ripe age for a pigeon is about 20 years. Terry Whatley has a pigeon, named Traveller and he's in his late teens. She's got doves that are older than this even. 

The average age for a healthy domestic pigeon that is well looked after is around 15 years. But, they can and do live longer, some of them anyway


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhhhh...

'Kaiser', the German Carrier Pigeon Captured by the Allied Expeditionary Forces in 1918, lived in retirement to 1940 if memory serve...

Others too, Veterans of the Great War, lived into the mid nineteen thirties and some were Hens...

So long as the Bird is healthy, gets excercise and Sunshine and Greens and good Seeds and is happy, I can not see how laying Eggs should in any way compromise them...even laying them continuosly for however long their Natural amenity for it continues.

Feral Hens lay so long as they are mated and feel the future looks good for the Babys, and they do this year round, for who knows how long...I am sure 'Stubby' is a Hen, and she is a feral here who lost her foot in 1994...she looks as vivid and full and keen now as she did then...and has been with neophyte fliers off-and-on continuously all these years, who are most likely her youngsters...


So...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

My understanding is, and I don't know where I heard this, every hen is "born" with so many available eggs. Once she's laid them all that's it. Even if a hen lives to be 13 or 15 years old, she will not continue to lay eggs all those years. I agree that if fed properly, and allowed to "sit" every set of eggs until SHE sees fit to leave them, no harm done. I've got a racer, 2003 bird that mates up with a hen when she's not with her cock. She lays eggs all year long AND races and has been doing this now for 3 years. She's just raised 2 babies and has been moved back into the hen loft. She is in the process of mating back up with her female sweetie...I expect eggs anytime. I give her a bowl in the floor in the corner and let her sit on them till she leaves them.


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi again, 

This is probably a silly question, and not one that can be answered unless you are a pigeon... and can read and write .....but does anyone ever wonder if pigeons ever feel sad because their eggs don't hatch clutch after clutch, or do they just lay eggs because its a 'life task' that has to be done with no emotional attachment?

It's just that my hen spends half her life devotedly sitting on unfertile eggs for weeks on end and I always feel sorry for her having to waste her time, time and time again for no result. I especially feel sad for her when she searches round the house for nesting material (usually my house plants!)to bring up her young. When I first took her in, she started laying a few months later and after the first few clutches I felt guilty for keeping her as a pet and denying her the chance to raise her own. I do now realise that her only chance of life is as a pet but still feel sorry for her.

Am I just being far too sentimental or has anyone else ever wondered? She must think I'm a lousy 'mate' ! lol

Lindi


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Rooster2312 said:


> ...does anyone ever wonder if pigeons ever feel sad because their eggs don't hatch clutch after clutch...
> Lindi


Lindi,
Of my three hens, one sometimes seems depressed when her eggs don't hatch and acts as if it's my fault (which it is, since I swap out for wooden eggs). The second hen is more practical and will try to move to a different nesting area - perhaps a better location will help the eggs to hatch. The third has never successfully raised babies (the other two probably did before I got them) and doesn't seem to mind that they don't hatch. She will vigorously defend her nest, but the baby thing doesn't seem to be a big deal.

Brownieluv, 
I wonder if your vet was thinking of the egg laying problem common with cockatiels? Evidently, some of them can really put themselves in danger by laying eggs repetively. Since pigeons generally only lay 2 eggs and have a 30 day cycle, they don't tend to have this problem.


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Dna*



Camrron said:


> Laying eggs can shorten a lifespan?
> 
> I would like to see the research on that. The vet must have had some considerations in mind before making that kind of statement. Like egg production that goes on unabated can start leaching calcium from bones or something like that......
> 
> ...


The DNA test was about $50. The vet offered/suggested it, I wouldn't have thought to ask. Terry, Brownie had Donnie (breeder) fooled as well, he thought she was a "he" too. lol


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

Nooti said:


> But - the vet told me it's very! dangerous for pigeons to lay eggs, and can really shorten their life span.
> **********************************************************
> Let me put this the way it should have been stated.
> 
> ...


Thanks to you and all others who commented. I think the consensus is right - the vet was really trying to impress upon me the health risks of egg laying. I think she was excessive, especially with such a worry wart as myself. Telling me not to pet her till winter was definitely too much!


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Soft heart*



Rooster2312 said:


> Hi again,
> 
> This is probably a silly question, and not one that can be answered unless you are a pigeon... and can read and write .....but does anyone ever wonder if pigeons ever feel sad because their eggs don't hatch clutch after clutch, or do they just lay eggs because its a 'life task' that has to be done with no emotional attachment?
> 
> ...


I loved your story. That's so sensitive. Looking forward to the replies. In the "March of the Penguins" documentary, the filmmakers seem to believe the birds do experience grief if their eggs don't hatch or their babies die.


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