# how can you tell a good racer



## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Hi all, i was wondering how can you tell a good racer to breed from, besides the results they have, can you tell from the feel of it and the look of it,. I have birds i want to breed racers from an i would like to breed the best to best if possible. I don't want to breed a pile of birds and most of them turn out to be donkeys. Please can you help. Thankyou.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

jojo67 said:


> Hi all, *i was wondering how can you tell a good racer to breed from, besides the results they have*, can you tell from the feel of it and the look of it,. I have birds i want to breed racers from an i would like to breed the best to best if possible. I don't want to breed a pile of birds and most of them turn out to be donkeys. Please can you help. Thankyou.


I don't think anybody could give you a deffinitive answer to that one, but if you figure it out you will never have to work again! You will be the most popular fancier in the world!   

Dan


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I have a few ways of picking out who I want to breed.
First of all, results and pedigrees are nice to look at when choosing who goes with who, and stuff like that.
Something I like to look for when getting breeders (_or any other pigeons_) is how they feel and look. My recent ones were stocky and felt like stout little birds when you hold them in your hands. Their feathers were soft, smooth, and had a nice little coat of feather dust like it should have. I also like to get birds with nice eyes, white ceres, and red feet. Those are the signs of a good bird to me, regardless of whether it will breed or fly.

Really it all depends on what *you *are wanting to get. If you want a certain color, size, eye, or other feature like that, then the birds that look like what you want is what you'll breed. If you want a bird that flies great, and has a nice background, results, or has bred good racers, then you'll want to look at that (if you have that info) and put the top birds together.
If you don't have anything but their looks to go by, then I'd start with do they look healthy. Do they look scruffy, or neat and smooth like champs? If you're wanting to breed, you'll need to make sure they don't have any internal/external parasites. After all, you don't want to stress them during breeding. Second I'd look at size and shape. I personally like the bigger birds, but at the same time I don't want it to effect their flying in a bad way. Some people try to keep medium size in their loft, etc. Do you want long, slender birds, or something a bit bigger and fuller? Breeders will probably put on weight and look like stocky birds from pampering and not being able to fly. Even still, size and shape is still in the genetics. Like I said before, I like birds with nice looking eyes. Bright and clear over dark and bull-eyes. There are still great birds that have dark eyes, that have won a lot of stuff. I'm not a strong believer of the eye sign effecting the racing ability, so I put that as one of the last things I look for.

My main advice is, if you see a pair you think looks great (after a while you'll find what you think is what looks best. looking at pictures of champion racers always helps, haha.), then try breeding them together. When the babies come, and you decide they aren't what you like, then simply try putting the parents with other birds until you find a pair that produce good birds. Theres a lot of times when the only true thing you can go by with your breeders, is how the young turn out. What seems like a good pair can always turn out a dud, and a pair that looks poor compared to these high dollar champs could always turn out a super winning bird. (Whether the young win or not depends a lot on how you train them too...so just producing from good breeders doesn't necessarily mean you'll win)

Okay I think that's enough of my advice. I shouldn't be typing up a storm when I don't even race my homers D:


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

I haveheard of good racers and breeders who can tell a good bird fom a bad one from the feel and look, Maybe i should talk to them instead. thanks.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Thankyou maryof exeter for your reply, as you said it takes a lot of different aspects to determine a good racer , as i will be just starting to race in the 2008 season i don't want to breed lots of birds and end up having too many, i think that would be a waste of time and also no good for the birds. I have spoken to some fanciers from around my area for advice, i had one who came into the loft and handled the birds and he pick 8 out of 33 birds which he though was my best to breed from. He has been in racing pigeons al his life and has been very successful. I postd the tread to see other peoples opinions on their opinions, I am in the same opinion as yourself if they look good and healthy and trained well they deserve a chance. thankyou again for your help.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Breeder birds are in the eye of the owner. Put the birds together the best you can. Keep records, and test and train the off spring. From this you find your better breeders


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Here's one view point!
http://www.expertvillage.com/videos/homing-pigeons-good-pigeons.htm


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kissimmee,Florida
Posts: 136 


Here's one view point!
http://www.expertvillage.com/videos/...od-pigeons.htm
__________________
Silence is Golden but speaking up is priceless! 

you can ask the question and not get the answer.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Your welcome, and good luck with your racing 

I probably won't be able to race mine until '09, since we are supposed to be building a new loft soon and things like that. Money and time takes a toll on training for the race....And I'd like to start out with young birds sooo...yeah, I'll just have to wait.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

re lee said:


> Breeder birds are in the eye of the owner. Put the birds together the best you can. Keep records, and test and train the off spring. From this you find your better breeders


thanks for you reply relee, as you said just keep records and go from that. I can,t understand how someone can say that a bird that looks good and healthy looking will not breed good pigeons. I though iwould get a second opinion. Thankyou again


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Your welcome, and good luck with your racing
> 
> I probably won't be able to race mine until '09, since we are supposed to be building a new loft soon and things like that. Money and time takes a toll on training for the race....And I'd like to start out with young birds sooo...yeah, I'll just have to wait.


It will be young birds i will start with . i got my birds from breeders from england to breed from, i have their pedigrees and all seem to have good parent birds breeding winners. The thing that got me was pigeons i liked and thought would be good for breeding, did'nt get a second look and were discarded by a fancier who i though knew better than me. He told me to pair up all the birds but to put the ones he picked out to pair and when the others pair and laid, to take the eggs from the good pairs and put under the not so good so then the good pairs would lay again. It sounded alright to me but i the long run i though to get to knw all yur birds the first year or two and then decide this. Thankyou again mary and i hope you get your loft builded soon.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

jojo67 said:


> I can,t understand how someone can say that a bird that looks good and healthy looking will not breed good pigeons.


There is a difference between looking good, and being good. There's always a chance a bird will look pretty and will be healthy, but in reality it may not be as great as it could. A bird could have some problems with their homing ability, or came from a pair that actually didn't have good homing to begin with, and then when you breed them...you end up with birds that just aren't great no matter how much you train them. If you get breeders from someone that races though, you probably won't have to worry about that problem. Stress and things like that can also effect how the young are. If you want the best from your birds, keep them happy and as stress free as you can so the produce the best they can. Over breeding and stress can cause your breeders not to put out their best genetic wise. Other things like diet and if they go without food/water can cause the babies to miss a feeding, which could stunt their growth. 
So really there's more things that come into play besides how parents look and whether they are healthy or not, when getting good young from them.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*from former breeder loft*

Jo

I wanted to tell you first of all do not get discouraged about anything. Train your birds and you will do fine. I used to watch as these so called experts could tell a good bird and a bad bird just by the look, but that is so subjective. Decades ago the bird that was club champion was a bird that wouldnt even get a second look. Undersized? Eyes not perfect? Even demeanor are questioned. I recently rented a movie about an undersized horse by the name of seabiscuit who just didnt look right either, but guess he knew how to win lol. Several of the birds that we entered into shows for regular racing homers won prizes for best of breed (normal racing homer not the show homer breed) for their appearance but never were the top birds in racing. 

Trust yourself. Trust your training. Ask questions about what others are looking at, but in the end trust yourself. As I was getting out of the sport many of the people who were getting in the sport talked a good game but had no clue what to do. One even trained his birds in a thunderstorm and high winds in michigan to test to see if the birds had "it". Never knew what that was lol. Others only bought pedigree birds that never produced any winners. 

You can't look at a bird and say that is a winner, but if you put the time in training then you will produce birds that are winners.

joe


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jojo67 said:


> I can,t understand how someone can say that a bird that looks good and healthy looking will not breed good pigeons.


Well, to be quite honest, neither can I!!  There is another thread somewhere that this same discussion was had just a few days ago. The bottom line is this.........there is no way to "look" at a bird and determine whether it will be a good breeder or not. UNLESS there is something obviously wrong with the bird. Just because a bird is a good racer, doesn't mean that it will be a good breeder. That works both ways. To find out if a bird is a good breeder, you must breed from it and see for yourself. To find out is a bird is a good racer, you must race it and see for yourself. 
Nothing in life is simple and that includes raising and racing pigeons. If it was as simple as just looking at a bird and being able to tell if it's a "good" bird or not, well where would the fun be in that???
Now having said all of that, for someone just starting out, its' not ALL about the birds. YOU have to learn what to do and not to do and when YOU make mistakes, the bird is the one that will pay the price. So, even in the beginning, if a bird turns out not to be as "good" as you thought it would be, don't automatically blame the bird. They will only be as good as their master/trainer and THAT'S not easy either. 
Every racer here will tell you that you'll never learn it all and you'll constantly be learning new things. Main thing is to do the best you can by the bird, treat them like they should be treated and have fun.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

I understand al of what your saying mary its just that the fact that a fancier would pick out a bird which he says would be better for breeding than another one which looks as good if not better would not be. at the minute i have no race results are training to go by so look and feel and the pedigrees i got is the best i can go on. I think i will have to go by trail and error and maybe i will get lucky.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Thankyou lovebirds for your encouraging advice as you said i will learn as i go along from my mistakes, I thinkvery highly of the birds i have so far no matter about any experts so called. I will pair them up as i see the best i can and will go from there ,i will walk before i can run hopefully,Thanks again


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jojo67 said:


> I understand al of what your saying mary its just that the fact that a fancier would pick out a bird which he says would be better for breeding than another one which looks as good if not better would not be. at the minute i have no race results are training to go by so look and feel and the pedigrees i got is the best i can go on. I think i will have to go by trail and error and maybe i will get lucky.


Well, join the club. EVERYONE that races birds were where you are in the beginning. When we started, I didn't have clue about pigeons period!! Much less racing them. Our first YB season, we won 2 races and had 2 2nd places. I have no idea what I did to get those results. All I can tell you is that I took the best care of my birds that I could and they did the rest. 
I will say this though. We had our birds for two years before we ever raced them. I learned ALOT during those two years and I think it paid off somehow. I'm not telling you to do that. Just saying........
There's more to this than just getting birds, throwing a pair in a cage and raising babies and getting right into racing. You have to learn to watch your birds, KNOW your birds and know when something "just isn't right".......


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

See, I missed that part (about the guy saying you should only breed these and not let the others, when other looked good to you).

Like Joe said, you never know...one of the birds that guy didn't give a second look to might make champions! I think you should give the ones both you and he thinks are good a chance. If you have a feeling that a bird looks great and would make a good breeder, go for it. Don't let just what one guy says stop you. Everyone has their own ways of telling things...he might have a different opinion of what is "good". I don't think we even know what "good" is until it comes from from a race. Even if it loses, it might breed a pigeon that comes in first place all the time. Or it might lose the second time, and you keep working with it...and...bam! It turns into a great little bird. 
I don't see why perfectly good homers should be used as foster parents unless you yourself has tested the pair and decided you don't want their offspring in the loft, or they are infertile. All they need is a chance! Like Seabuscuit! Lol.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> There is a difference between looking good, and being good. There's always a chance a bird will look pretty and will be healthy, but in reality it may not be as great as it could. A bird could have some problems with their homing ability, or came from a pair that actually didn't have good homing to begin with, and then when you breed them...you end up with birds that just aren't great no matter how much you train them. If you get breeders from someone that races though, you probably won't have to worry about that problem. Stress and things like that can also effect how the young are. If you want the best from your birds, keep them happy and as stress free as you can so the produce the best they can. Over breeding and stress can cause your breeders not to put out their best genetic wise. Other things like diet and if they go without food/water can cause the babies to miss a feeding, which could stunt their growth.
> So really there's more things that come into play besides how parents look and whether they are healthy or not, when getting good young from them.





KO Loft said:


> Jo
> 
> I wanted to tell you first of all do not get discouraged about anything. Train your birds and you will do fine. I used to watch as these so called experts could tell a good bird and a bad bird just by the look, but that is so subjective. Decades ago the bird that was club champion was a bird that wouldnt even get a second look. Undersized? Eyes not perfect? Even demeanor are questioned. I recently rented a movie about an undersized horse by the name of seabiscuit who just didnt look right either, but guess he knew how to win lol. Several of the birds that we entered into shows for regular racing homers won prizes for best of breed (normal racing homer not the show homer breed) for their appearance but never were the top birds in racing.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for reply, I feel a lot better now after i have heard others opinions, as lovebirds said its the fun of trying different things to try and get the best results. you have said you heard all these so called experts before and you have probably have proved them wrong, thats what i would like to do, thanks again for your good advice


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> See, I missed that part.
> 
> Like Joe said, you never know...one of the birds that guy didn't give a second look to might make champions! I think you should give the ones both you and he thinks are good a chance. If you have a feeling that a bird looks great and would make a good breeder, go for it. Don't let just what one guy says stop you. *Everyone has their own ways of telling things...he might have a different opinion of what is "good". I don't think we even know what "good" is until it comes from from a race. Even if it loses, it might breed a pigeon that comes in first place all the time. Or it might lose the second time, and you keep working with it...and...bam! It turns into a great little bird. *
> I don't see why perfectly good homers should be used as foster parents unless you yourself has tested the pair and decided you don't want their offspring in the loft, or they are infertile. All they need is a chance! Like Seabuscuit! Lol.


EXACTLY!! You got it. A little story...........
Our IF Champion, Skydancer. As a young bird, did so-so. As a yearling...did so-so. At TWO years old...........she turned it on!! Won 5 out of 6 club races and won 2 Combine races all in the same year. Who knew??? We are just now getting to the place, after 5 years, that we have a loft full of Old Birds. I CAN'T keep all of the young birds that I have left at the end of young bird season. So..........all I can go by is what they did as young birds, (unless they are bred a certain way and I know the potential is there) and hope I make the right choices. If Skydancer were on my young bird team this year or last year, the chances of her making the old bird team would be pretty slim. THAT would have been a BIG mistake.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Haha, _Skydancer - The Seabiscuit of the sky_ 

A little off topic but...
Speaking of Skydancer, the little pidgies you gave us are doing great. One pair of them I put together, and they already have a nest full of pine needles. Another pair is all kissy, but hasn't started anything yet. Then, the little splash I put with our Mary, and they also have a nest of pine needles. I'm so thankful for that little guy...Mary is the fastest pigeon I've ever seen, but has a mind of her own. When she wants to fly, she flies. She doesn't care who's following her, or if they want to go home. She was also stubborn about breeding. In the main loft, she had her one nest box. If Mary wasn't flying or eating, she was sitting on the edge of that box waiting to protect it if she had to. We almost though she was a boy...until she was attracted to our male Runt. That new little homer finally melted her heart I guess. Or maybe she just realized she can't get out to fly so she gave in 
The blue grizzle you gave us happened to be the odd hen out, but I think I've decided on her a mate, so I'll probably seperate her and him tomorrow. The only other male left is a bit small for her, and they just look strange together so hopefully this old blue splash I have will turn out some good babies with her  He's big, healthy, and strong (I mean that too. I try not to hold him because I'm afraid he'll wiggle loose. He's got some muscle going on in those wings!)..and looks like he'd be a good dad. He came from Larry (which he probably got directly from someone else), and I know he tries to get the best birds...so I guess we'll just have to wait and see!


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> EXACTLY!! You got it. A little story...........
> Our IF Champion, Skydancer. As a young bird, did so-so. As a yearling...did so-so. At TWO years old...........she turned it on!! Won 5 out of 6 club races and won 2 Combine races all in the same year. Who knew??? We are just now getting to the place, after 5 years, that we have a loft full of Old Birds. I CAN'T keep all of the young birds that I have left at the end of young bird season. So..........all I can go by is what they did as young birds, (unless they are bred a certain way and I know the potential is there) and hope I make the right choices. If Skydancer were on my young bird team this year or last year, the chances of her making the old bird team would be pretty slim. THAT would have been a BIG mistake.


very good story lovebirds, i hope i can have the same experiance as you and skydancer, am sure you take a good look at the young birds at the end of the season from that.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Haha, _Skydancer - The Seabiscuit of the sky_
> 
> A little off topic but...
> Speaking of Skydancer, the little pidgies you gave us are doing great. One pair of them I put together, and they already have a nest full of pine needles. Another pair is all kissy, but hasn't started anything yet. Then, the little splash I put with our Mary, and they also have a nest of pine needles. I'm so thankful for that little guy...Mary is the fastest pigeon I've ever seen, but has a mind of her own. When she wants to fly, she flies. She doesn't care who's following her, or if they want to go home. She was also stubborn about breeding. In the main loft, she had her one nest box. If Mary wasn't flying or eating, she was sitting on the edge of that box waiting to protect it if she had to. We almost though she was a boy...until she was attracted to our male Runt. That new little homer finally melted her heart I guess. Or maybe she just realized she can't get out to fly so she gave in
> The blue grizzle you gave us happened to be the odd hen out, but I think I've decided on her a mate, so I'll probably seperate her and him tomorrow. The only other male left is a bit small for her, and they just look strange together so hopefully this old blue splash I have will turn out some good babies with her  He's big, healthy, and strong (I mean that too. I try not to hold him because I'm afraid he'll wiggle loose. He's got some muscle going on in those wings!)..and looks like he'd be a good dad. He came from Larry (which he probably got directly from someone else), and I know he tries to get the best birds...so I guess we'll just have to wait and see!



Great update.........how some pictures???


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/MyHomers

The best I have right now D:
They were quick pics...
Maybe tomorrow the sun will come out and I'll be able to take some better ones 
(my camera has some issues with its flash)


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*jo*

Jo

I see that you are from across the pond but i will try to draw a comparison. Every year my detroit lions draft a player that is a can't miss prospect because of his size, speed, strength, and other characteristics based upon what a scout says after looking at him. In the NFL we are a joke because we keep looking at the "can not miss" player based upon appearance and pedigree of playing at Notre Dame, USC, U of Michigan and other major colleges. The irony is the Lions have missed on almost every pick and they are considered experts just like the fancier who picked out the bird and said what is good and what is not. You get another fancier and he might say yes that one bird is ok but another bird is better. 

Jo look to the fancier as a guide but do not take what they say as an expert. As a Lions fan in the NFL i have 50 years of picks that never turned to be a good player. And remember this, every fancier started out like you. building a team takes time, as does building a successful loft, but who knows...lol one of your birds may be my barry sanders and be the star of your club (barry sanders if you dont know it was listed as too small to play in the NFL by some experts "fanciers" lol, but he managed to carry the team and be one of the greatest players in its history)

joe


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

alot of us will let the basket appoint a perch to a bird... but will know when a bird should or shouldnt be breed out of. What you need to do is find a good racer in your area and see if you can go to his loft and see some of his birds... and if you can part with a few of them. Some strains of pigeons fly much better in certain areas. So if you want to be good in a given club you need to know and be-friend someone that is successful in your area.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Matt is wise beyond his years. The best place to find a good racer is to look at those who are winning, and go look at the winners. Just maybe they will let you take one home, or if not maybe a sibling of one. 
One of the most important things is to select the best birds from the start. Lovebirds also has a point. Fly the bird if they do not do well keep flying them. Do not breed from a birds unless they fly well or you are very certian that their family is proven and select wisely. 
The latter is what we must do when we start out, select wisely. Breed the best, fly the rest. 

Randy


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

KO Loft said:


> Jo
> 
> I see that you are from across the pond but i will try to draw a comparison. Every year my detroit lions draft a player that is a can't miss prospect because of his size, speed, strength, and other characteristics based upon what a scout says after looking at him. In the NFL we are a joke because we keep looking at the "can not miss" player based upon appearance and pedigree of playing at Notre Dame, USC, U of Michigan and other major colleges. The irony is the Lions have missed on almost every pick and they are considered experts just like the fancier who picked out the bird and said what is good and what is not. You get another fancier and he might say yes that one bird is ok but another bird is better.
> 
> ...


very good points ko loft, no matter about these experts and their opinions, as you said just take his opinion as a guide and other fanciers and hopefully one who does well and gives his opinion. I live in northern ireland, co-Tyrone, round the area where i live their is big competation amount the fanciers and not all will give the so called secrets away too easy, 
All trying to be the best. Thankyou again ko loft


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Matt D. said:


> alot of us will let the basket appoint a perch to a bird... but will know when a bird should or shouldnt be breed out of. What you need to do is find a good racer in your area and see if you can go to his loft and see some of his birds... and if you can part with a few of them. Some strains of pigeons fly much better in certain areas. So if you want to be good in a given club you need to know and be-friend someone that is successful in your area.


I have been talking to other fanciers matt, One of them give me some birds which he said came from birds that done well for him. I also ot a few from a man who is going out of the sport and the birds he give me where some of his stock and he said they bred winners from them. so hopefully if i do my best by them then maybe who nows.Thanks for reply


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## Grizzled (Oct 21, 2004)

jojo67 said:


> It will be young birds i will start with . i got my birds from breeders from england to breed from, i have their pedigrees and all seem to have good parent birds breeding winners. The thing that got me was pigeons i liked and thought would be good for breeding, did'nt get a second look and were discarded by a fancier who i though knew better than me. He told me to pair up all the birds but to put the ones he picked out to pair and when the others pair and laid, to take the eggs from the good pairs and put under the not so good so then the good pairs would lay again. It sounded alright to me but i the long run i though to get to knw all yur birds the first year or two and then decide this. Thankyou again mary and i hope you get your loft builded soon.


If this fancier friend of yours bred these birds himself, then I would heed his advice. If you acquired these pigeons from an alternate source and they are all down from winning stock, then I would pair them up as you see fit, as the potential is within the genetic pool itself. Many well meaning experts enjoy judging other people's birds and some may even go so far as to say, " Cull this one, don't like that one, get rid of the bunch..." , which comes down to nothing more than personal preference. If the birds are down from a good source, try mating them up the way you see fit. You will learn more about them and have some fun in the process. Good luck!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

jojo67 said:


> thanks for you reply relee, as you said just keep records and go from that. I can,t understand how someone can say that a bird that looks good and healthy looking will not breed good pigeons. I though iwould get a second opinion. Thankyou again



Hello JoJo,

On the surface, it would appear that you ask a simple question.....but at the heart of your question is how to develop a selection process, and that actually can become quite complicated. 

I am a YB specialist, which means my selection process is based on a much shorter time frame then a person who will fly the bird over a much longer period of time. At the end of the season, all of my remaining YB's look good and healthy. From this group I must select who will have an opportunity to breed, and who ever or what ever is selected for that chance....means another bird in the breeding section must be sold to make room. I don't have unlimited space to give every good looking and healthy bird a chance to breed, nor would I want to. 

At this stage of the game, it is unlikely that you have developed the skills to determine what birds "Look Good", and at any rate, your personal taste is likely to change over time. ReLee uses a term "Minds Eye" which most likely is overlooked by most readers here....but the concept is very important.

I don't know if I have the skill to articulate it....but it comes down to you have to know, to what end, you are breeding for. People who breed show birds often have a better handle on this, then do racing fanciers. 

Once you have that imaginary future "Perfect" racing pigeon in your mind, and can see all of the details....then, and perhaps only then, can you begin to intelligently select from the available stock of winning racers, to determine which birds more closely resemble that "Perfect" bird, which exists only inside your head, and should be retained or selected for breeding.

If you have an "Expert" who is willing to help you in this regard, then you might just save yourself a lot of time and effort. If on the other hand, you feel that every good looking and healthy bird should be given the opportunity to breed, then what you are in fact doing....is no selection process.

A long time ago I carefully selected an "Expert" to review some of my pigeons, and he gave me what I asked for, a very honest evaluation of some pigeons. I did not like his answer...and set out to prove him wrong. It took about five years, but in the end....I discovered...he had been correct. He has since passed away, but I can still remember the race when I won 1st in my Combine...as the bird folded his wings and trapped perfectly, I can still remember the words I shouted out..."My God...Earl you were Right" !!  

Human nature and the pigeon game.....we always think we know more then the teacher.......


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

jo jo,i would take your local fanciers advice.if he has been very successful in your area,he probably gave you a good starting point as far as what birds to put together.take the 8 he told you to breed from and breed them the way he told you to.you pair the rest as you see fit.see what happens.the basket wont lie to you.you will learn that the birds health,proper loft,proper feeding,training,etc will also play a part in your results.when all those things come together,then you got something.you have to start some where,so listen to the fanciers who are successful in your area.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

jojo67 said:


> Hi all, i was wondering how can you tell a good racer to breed from, besides the results they have, can you tell from the feel of it and the look of it,. I have birds i want to breed racers from an i would like to breed the best to best if possible. I don't want to breed a pile of birds and most of them turn out to be donkeys. Please can you help. Thankyou.


So JoJo,

How about a report back.....what did you end of doing ? Do you have your birds paired ? Did you have any pairs of pigeons produce any donkeys ?  
I assume you didn't or we would have seen the report on FOX news !!!!!


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> So JoJo,
> 
> How about a report back.....what did you end of doing ? Do you have your birds paired ? Did you have any pairs of pigeons produce any donkeys ?
> I assume you didn't or we would have seen the report on FOX news !!!!!


LOL ......... Give me time i will probably be on the news soon, as for the update i had the same fancier round and he put tgether the pairs i should pair and he lent me a few pairs to breed from. The rest of the birds he said to train them at the start of april and then race them and see how they do he said you never know could be one in there that might do something. 
I hopefully don't get too many donkeys, Maybe a few ponies


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

jojo,for what its worth i think you did the right thing.and got a few more pair to breed from as well.probably see the results of your decision come ybs.


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