# Trich, Abscess, Pox and/or Something Else ??



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi All,

My friend, Anita, brought me an Egyptian Goose last night that she
had been keeping an eye on at Tri-City Park after she noticed some
kind of abnormality in the mouth. When I saw (and smelled) the bird,
my first thought was trich but then got a look at the underside of the
lower beak .. now I'm not sure what this is. Any suggestions/advice
will be most welcome.

http://www.rims.net/2006Feb06

The first picture is of the underside of the lower bill and the others are
the trich looking growths/swelling.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Terry, could it be trich + something else?
E.coli also tends to smell.
I would give Metronidazol anyway maybe with Baytril. Or, give Metro and see how it goes for a couple of days.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks, Reti. Anita is looking after this bird, and we did start her on Spartrix last night .. 

Someone on another list mentioned that perhaps a burn caused this.

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terry, this is a bit like a classroom learning experience, poor bird. I don't know if it looks this way close up, but inside on the tongue it looks a bit fuzzy or hairy some of the growth. I'm wondering if there is a combo of things going on as well. The fuzzy/hairy stuff makes me think of thrush, and so also worms/parasites. And of course Trich comes to mind. What ever it is, there are probably layers to what's going on. 

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If it stays mostly dry on the underneath side then I don't imagine that trichomonads would survive in it. Remember that the real problem with trichomoniasis isn't the trichomonads, but the immune system's over-response to them.

This looks like there's enough tissue destruction that the lower mandible is in pretty bad shape. If it were me, I'd do a bunch of labwork to try and identify the causative agents but you might even need a pathologist for this one as it may have turned cancerous. There could be everything from a burn (thermal or chemical) to Knemidokoptes (or some other burrowing parasite) to viral to bacterial to...

Tests, need tests, lots of tests. You should probably paint it with Betadine and other topicals in the interim, though, as there's no doubt some kind of infection that's not doing any good.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

feralpigeon said:


> inside on the tongue it looks a bit fuzzy or hairy some of the growth. I'm wondering if there is a combo of things going on as well. The fuzzy/hairy stuff makes me think of thrush, and so also worms/parasites. And of course Trich comes to mind. What ever it is, there are probably layers to what's going on.
> 
> fp


Hi fp,

My rehabber friend thought candidiasis was a possibility also. I think what you are seeing as the fuzzy/hairy things are actually the serrations of the beak. On that one side the serrations are hugely puffed up, bleed easily, and look like there are trich growths on top.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pidgey said:


> Tests, need tests, lots of tests. You should probably paint it with Betadine and other topicals in the interim, though, as there's no doubt some kind of infection that's not doing any good.
> 
> Pidgey


Thanks Pidgey. Sounds like this bird needs to get to Dr. Levine (avian specialist) ASAP. I will advise Anita to paint the underside of the beak with Betadine also.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My first thought was: you need a pathologist... NOW!!!

Somehow, my fingers just didn't type that. I'd try to run a few cultures as well as just snapshot-ing a simple smear for a Gram stain. I don't personally have Diff-Quik... 

(you'd see the budding hyphae of candidiasis with that one as shown here:

http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/microbes/yeast.htm ) 

...but I'd want to do that, too. I suppose I'd do all that to try and confirm a bacterial infection so that I could start dosing the bird from the inside with an appropriate antibiotic if necessary.

Other considerations would be to debride the outside and get a hydroactive dressing on it as the debris may harbor enough infection as to not be effectively treatable from either the inside (with antibiotics) or the outside (with topicals). 

It does look like it's been there for awhile and it's certainly not healing worth a flip. Oh, and the other thing to do would be to examine some scrapings under low power (40X) to see if there are any parasites.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks again, Pidgey. Am getting the ball rolling on this end .. complicated a bit by the fact that Anita has the bird and I don't. Am getting some interesting responses from other lists/boards that I will post about in a bit.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

The Egyptian was seen by Dr. Levine this afternoon. He took a biopsy sample and started the bird on Itraconazole in case of a fungal infection. He felt the problem was either a tumor, pox, or a fungal infection and advised that in the case of a tumor or pox that the prognosis was poor and if it was fungal the prognosis was guarded. 

So, we will hope for good news from the lab and do our best for the bird. 

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I kinda' thought it would be that bad although I don't see why the prognosis would be poor if it's pox although that'd be just about the worst looking single spot of pox imaginable. If memory serves, though, there is a pox strain that's carcinogenic. We're really worried that it's eating into the structural part of the mandible whatever it is, aren't we?

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pidgey said:


> We're really worried that it's eating into the structural part of the mandible whatever it is, aren't we?
> 
> Pidgey


Yep .. that's about the bottom line without more information at this point.

This is an especially difficult case for me because my dear friend, Anita, has been wanting to learn about rehab .. she's already an accomplished rescuer. She begged to be allowed to care for this bird, and I'm very sorry that I said yes to her .. not because she's not capable, but just because this is a very, very difficult case to start out with. Still .. Anita is a trooper, and she will see that all protocols are followed, and she will watch this bird like a little human hawk (Anita is about 5' tall and weighs about 85-90 pounds .. tiny little human piece of 100% love for birds and animals).

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Better not let her get too close to Butchie Boy then--he could down her in one gulp!

Did you ask the doc about debriding it and then covering with a hydroactive dressing? Sometimes it's best to shoot first and ask questions later. That's the real trouble here, there's a finite amount of time until it gets the mandible and you feel like you need to head it off at the pass. I'd have done the microscope part of the lab with the bird sitting on my lap.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> The Egyptian was seen by Dr. Levine this afternoon. He took a biopsy sample and started the bird on Itraconazole in case of a fungal infection. He felt the problem was either a tumor, pox, or a fungal infection and advised that in the case of a tumor or pox that the prognosis was poor and if it was fungal the prognosis was guarded.
> 
> So, we will hope for good news from the lab and do our best for the bird.
> 
> Terry


Well, whichever, it's got a way head start on everyone. Did the doctor recommend anything topically at all?

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pidgey said:


> Did you ask the doc about debriding it and then covering with a hydroactive dressing? Sometimes it's best to shoot first and ask questions later. That's the real trouble here, there's a finite amount of time until it gets the mandible and you feel like you need to head it off at the pass. I'd have done the microscope part of the lab with the bird sitting on my lap.
> 
> Pidgey


Yes, we asked about debriding and were told not to at this point. Even the gentlest touching of the right side or under side of the lower beak causes lots of bleeding. 

The vet did do a quick microscope check himself and found nothing that he recognized as a causitive agent.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

feralpigeon said:


> Did the doctor recommend anything topically at all?
> 
> fp


Only Betadine on the pox looking lesions on the underside of the lower beak.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Ooooo, what a ghastly looking injury/infection site that is...

Does it seem that it began on the Bird's lower right side under the or on the side of the Mandible, and progressed across and so on?

Looks like the kerotinaceous sheath is bubbled up where the edges of it are just being effected...

My first thought was some kind of fungus infection, even as some people are said to get in their finger or toe nails sometimes...

Dilute Chlorine Bleach in Water could be one means of eliminating topical fungal infestations, but likely better and specific meds are available for that of course.


Is the inside of her mouth being effected at all? Or is it just the outside underside there of her Mandible Bill?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If the damage on the underside is caused by a fungal problem, fungus loves moisture, so it couldn't be covered. For severe diaper rashes in babies and seniors the doctor's and nurses recommend washing w/solution of vinegar, patting dry, then using a hair dryer to make sure the area is completely dry. Then an ever so light, as in extremely thin film of anti-fungal creme. Even the over the counter prescriptions w/do, such as clotrimazole. If the layer is too thick, it's the moisture problem again. It's the frequency of the regimine that is 
important, not the thickness of the application. Although it sounds as though the region is severely compromised at this point.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...quite so fp,


The Mandible Bone is rather spongey in Geese and would likely offer less resistance than the relatively more dense Bone of other specie's Beaks/Bills...

But too, like most Birds, I would expect Geese to have impressive recouperative abilities.

Topical applications of dilute Hydrogen Peroxide might also be useful to in effect, chemically 'dry' the site and to eliminate the invasive fungal organisms, I would think...if it is in fact some order of fungal infection.

Somehow, and of course my experience is limited, and even more limited being mostly with Pigeons, I would be surprised if Trichomonas could colonize a site like this one is...but there are other Bacteria who might get away with it, and as Pidgey suggested above, some Lab Tests might reveal what organisms are teeming in there to identify them and then decide the regimen and meds.


I think their circulation is quite good in their mandible there, in so far as the underlieing bone being in something better than in an eddie...


Still, thank goodness this was caught without it having advanced further...all in all, this might work out pretty well for the Goose, even if with some scarring of the area afterward.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

That poor bird must be miserable to be like that. I looked at the photos and just thought it reminded me of severe cases of warts I have seen or wart-like growths. Literally the living flesh and tissue growing in distorted ways because of a virus. I hope you can find a solution for this bird Terry but who would not understand if there was none. He is in good hands with you.

Cameron.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, Cameron, you are so right that this bird is in good hands, couldn't agree more on that one. Think we all hope that this bird makes continued recovery in its' care & rehab.

About bleach and peroxide as directly related to yeast/fungi; as far as I know, in the different systems that I have researced over the years for human treatment, the preferred choice is a water/vinegar solution, as opposed to bleach or peroxide. Having said that, as a craftsperson, yes, in a house, I would use a bleach solution. Perhaps a water/bleach solution might be considered too harsh for skin contact and that is why the vinegar/water solution is promoted. But from my first inquiry that started w/Jethro Kloss and "Back to Eden", to the HMO doctors and nurses of the Kaiser HMO currently, the treatment for yeast based rashes w/be a solution of vinegar and water, w/the skin thoroughly dried w/a hair dryer, then an ever so thin application of an anti-fungal creme of whatever strength that you can get your hands on, at least 4 times a day. Want the condition to resolve earlier?
Increase the frequency of treatments.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi all,

I'm dealing with a husband with acute gall bladder infection/inflammation for the past month (the surgeons missed the window of opportunity to just remove the danged thing) and a very sick 90 year old father today .. extreme UTI complicated by other things. Thus I apologize for slow responses and pretty disjointed ones .. I'm tired and have my hands full here.

Anyway, the goose is doing as well as could be expected right now. If I had the goose (which is actually a Shelduck), I might be willing to "experiment" a bit on my own to figure things out, but I don't have this bird .. my friend, Anita, does. She is capable and competent, but I'm not going to ask her to disregard the instructions of the avian vet who saw the bird. Yes, again, I know that sometimes some of us do .. wise or not, I don't know.

The big threat with this bird is that there is a huge gaping hole under all those pox looking lesions. The central part of a lower waterfowl beak is tissue with only the outer edges being "hard". If there's a big hole under there, we are in deep Shelduck poop.

Please do keep your thoughts and advice coming .. when I get a spare minute or two, I do read and think about them.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> ...The big threat with this bird is that there is a huge gaping hole under all those pox looking lesions. The central part of a lower waterfowl beak is tissue with only the outer edges being "hard". If there's a big hole under there, we are in deep Shelduck poop...
> Terry


First and foremost, I'm so sorry about the problems your husband and father are dealing with! This will obviously be taxing for you. Wish we could help more directly than just sending healing vibes. Hope they heal quickly and without incident. I know that they have an extremely capable caregiver watching over them...and if they refuse to eat, just tube them! 

Regarding the lower beak, if there is a hole, what about rigging a temporary scaffolding/support, to allow the tissue to repair and fill in? I can't recommend a material to use, but my suggestion was triggered by seeing the improvement that Nicobar pigeon has made, filling in tissue over a naked skull (http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13139&page=9&highlight=nicobar). Just a thought.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh Terry, I am so sorry your family is dealing with all those health problems.
I pray your dad and hubby recover soon.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Terry,

I had a UTI from h*ll a year and a half ago and that's not fun at all. I went from 99 to 104 in twenty minutes after a run of the shakes that was worse than running a couple of miles. The stress of it that part alone could easily kill someone elderly so get Dad on the right meds and plenty of cranberry juice el pronto. Dad might have gotten the bladder infection from holding that mandrake that crapped on him in the truck that you were telling me about on the phone awhile back. Maybe not, but it's a possibility.

Don't know what to say about the gallbladder except that food should be bland and not oily or greasy. Requires less bile, I think. Anyhow, I feel for you and hate to hear it.

As to the shelduck, it's really starting to sound malignant, isn't it? Does the hole go all the way through to the base of the tongue or something like that?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terry,

Sorry to hear about your family's health issues and wish them both a speedy
return to good health. 

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, I too am so sorry to hear of the health issues with your husband and father. My husband is just getting over a horrible UTI. The hard chills are really bad. I also had one 2 years ago and the doctor put me on Cipro for three days, which didn't help at all. Finally had to go to an urgent care and they put me on Levaquin 500mg. for 10 days and it did the trick. My husband was given a shot when he had his a couple weeks ago followed also by Levaquin. He is much better, but it took about 5 days for the pain to go away.

Our house will NEVER be without cranberry juice again. We drink at least a full glass a day and lots of water. It is the best thing in the world for UTI's.

Maggie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Terry,

I'm so sorry to hear your husband and father are having such health issues. It always seems like when it rains it pours! 
I hope and pray they recover quickly.


Maggie,

Sorry to hear your husband was also sick. I didn't know that UTI could be so bad. I'm glad he is getting better now!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pidgey said:


> Terry,
> 
> I had a UTI from h*ll a year and a half ago and that's not fun at all. I went from 99 to 104 in twenty minutes after a run of the shakes that was worse than running a couple of miles.
> Pidgey



Pidgey,

Not to change the subject, but I'm very sorry you also suffered from UTI so badly, I am very glad you survived, please forgive me for neglecting to include you in my earlier post.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Oops, I guess I neglected your post as well, Pidgey, hope you'll forgive me  .
A thumbs up on the cranberry juice for anything in the realm of bladder or urinary tract, in fact the concentrate pills are pretty good too. Got 'em at Trader Joe's.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you all for the well wishes. Dad is better today, hubby (Gene) is doing fine .. I'm just tired of having two human needy in the household plus all the birds and critters.

Give me a bird or animal any time .. somebody else take the humans .. they are typically pitiful patients.

The labs still aren't back on the Egyptian, but Anita and I have been in touch each day. The bird is =not= well and is being tube and hand fed by Anita. I suspect this will not end well for the bird. We're doing the best we can right now. I'll keep you posted.

Terry


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi there Terry,

My bird, who I have been tube feeding for the last 5 or 6 days looks like she might finally be turning the corner. I still don't know what was wrong with her though. We are in the same boat in a way except that you can see the problem with yours much more clearly. Whatever happens though I want you to know I support you and your efforts to help this injured animal. Lots of blessings for you, your bird and your family.

Cameron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Lab Results Are In*

The lab tests showed that this is avian pox and is manifesting in both 
the cutaneous (dry) form on the underside of the lower bill as well as the 
diphtheritic (wet) form inside the mouth.

The vet feels the prognosis is poor and has recommended euthanasia
for the bird. This decision will be made by Anita who is and has been
caring for the bird. If asked for my opinion, I will encourage her to keep
going with the bird. She has been successful in tube feeding the bird,
and the bird is showing no signs of stress or pain at this point, so I
would rather give the bird a chance than not.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Vets sometimes have a difficult time imagining how much trouble we will sometimes go through to pull a bird through. Not all of them, but quite a few.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> She has been successful in tube feeding the bird,
> and the bird is showing no signs of stress or pain at this point, so I
> would rather give the bird a chance than not.
> 
> Terry


That's what I would do too.
I hope this little guy makes it. 

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Anita is definitely going to keep going with the Egyptian .. and .. even more good news ..

Anita called a bit ago to let me know that my suggestion of
"duck soup" had turned the tide and that the bird is willingly swarfing
it up on her own. Last night I had Anita soak some dry kibble, shred
some romaine and spinach, and put all that in a good sized bowl of
water in the hope that the bird would be enticed to eat on her own ..
it seems to have worked well

What we really have to hope for now is that the wet pox is only where we see it in the mouth and that it hasn't already attacked any internal organs.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


If I may draw on my own breif experiences with my single Duck and her feeding time...

Have Anita go to the nearest 'Trader Joes' and get some of their house brand Canned Corn ( every Ducks favorite brand you know and inexpensive too) ...also get their lots of their various several kinds of small tender fresh Sprouts...'spicey' kinds of Sprouts are fine too ( ie Raddish or whatever that are kinds tangy...) But the little 'Leafy' ones are best, as opposed to the usual matted-skinney 'sprouts' one sees everywhere.

Also get some Misu...and some Tufu...

Baby Lima Beans ( Canned or Frozen...)...Baby LeSeur 'Peas'...regular Frozen peas for that matter are fine too of course...

Carrot Tops, Beet Tops, Cilantro, Dandy Lion Greens, Parsely, Italian Parsely, and so on, and for the large leaved of these, or the stemmy of these, cut 'em up with Scizzors into Bill-Sized bites...

Also various plain old dried Grains and Seeds such as Oat Groats, Barley, Wheat and so on...

A nice Bowl od small clean Gravel for her Gizzard in a saperate Bowl with an inch and a half of Water.

Flat Bottom 'Bowls' of course are best...Maybe more a Casserole Dish then or something...

Also dried Sea Weeds...shred or cut them into small bits for-the-Bill...

Fresh Fruit in Season, or, Frozen bulk ones, especially Blueberries, dark Cherries, Blackberries, these one thaws of course first, and leave whole or cut into bits...Dried Goji Berries too of course.

Skip the Mexican Strawberries unless one wishes to be treating e-coli or hepatitus or both.


Also Canned "Alaska" Salmon or high-quality Sock-Eye Salmon or fresh Salmon ( if one feels confident is is NOT 'farm raised' and NOT full of Mercury from the Alasakn Wilds and so on) ...Sardines ( canned, plain type) or other good Fish kinds of things, and of course raw and fresh caught is best, but...Canned is easy and convenient and quite good...made to be in small Bill-sized bits of course...

Good fish guts or scraps from one's favorite Sushi-Bar...or other...

Shredded Wheat or other hi-class old time plain Cereals also in moderation, but one might have to try several to find the ones she will rave about.


Anyhooooo...these variously together in various combinations to keep it interesting, and in an inch and a half or so of clean fresh Water in a stable Bowl or old time flat bottom Refridgerator or Ice Box bin...and I am confident the Duck will be delighted and will have that look of saying "Hey! Are we gunna have some more chow here or what?" every few hours or so. And or be quite vocal about it too...



Mine always was, and She really loved the chow...and liked to 'narrate' while she ate too, with all kinds of murmers and quacks of delight...and we did the chow-time at least five times-a-day...maybe six.

Makes for nice poops too...easy to pick up, no 'runs'...not smelly...not messy.

'Ideal'...


Love,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the suggestions for varying the duck soup recipe, Phil! Anita is a vegan and has lots of interesting things to eat in her household when it comes to possible duck food.

As to your Goji Berries .. YIKES! I was at Mother's Market the other day and happened to see a bag of them there .. $14.99 .. given the price, they better be good!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 



Oh well, maybe save the Goji-Berries for the Infants or convelescent 'small' Birds...that Duck could eat that whole bag in one sitting no problem, I am sure!


Anyway, even though your pals are Vegan, please have them consider to get the Sushi-Bar scraps and other good quality ( no bones unless Sardines or some Salmon, and then the spines definitely if not the ribs, of ) Fish-things for her.


Too, the fresh-frozen Blueberries, dark Cherries, and Blackberries are easy on the pocket book and very very good for them...plenty of nice antioxidants and other good things.

The small clean Gravel in it's own Bowl with an inch and a half or so of Water, also.

I used to just scoop up handfulls, sorted out the small ones I wanted to give her ( Pinto Bean sized thereabouts) , from the gravel here in the parking lot. Washed (agitated it real well in a container) in hot soapy Water...then let it sit in Bleach Water for a day, then rinsed the daylights out of it, and let her go to town.

She loved her 'gravel'...

I thought to avoid the Brussel sprouts, Broccolii and so on as being maybe unsuited for a Duck's digestion and improbable for their natural forragings, so...I stayed with Greens like what they might browse if in the wilds.

I did used to shred Carrots for her...

And 'thin' sliced Pippin Apples she liked too...

Bartlet Pears likewise...


When I did buy her some expensive official Purina 'Duck and Goose Chow' she went up to it all happy and quacking and murmering and so on, paused, slowly put her Bill into it, investigated it with some Bill action sluicing for a second, then stood back looking at me las if to say, "What is THIS stuff? Yeeeeeesh..." And so...we did not bother with any more of that...(but I could sneak 'some' into her other mixes and she'd not protest...) I fed the rest of that 100 pound sack to the Wild Birds and they seemed allright with it...

They have amazeingly sensitive Bills...!

And tastes..!

Truely!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Is there any new word on this one, Terry?

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I was just wondering the same thing...


Now, the Pox can be treated topically/locally as well as, being treated concurrently with systemics, yes?

Can you provide a fast overview/refresher for us Pidgey?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Phil,

Crap, no! I've never even seen pox so I guess it's not too much of a problem around here. It's viral so you don't treat it although others on here have mentioned some kind of medication to dry up the external lesions with but that's going to have a limited effect. As to internal diptheritic lesions (which are usually discovered in organs in necropsy), there's not a lot to be done.

Speculating, if you were going to try, you'd need to use an antiviral drug like is listed here:

http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/3035/Antivirals.html

but I don't see that there is one listed for the Poxviridae family, much less for Avipoxvirus genus. In humans, you can get a gamma G shot if you're going into harm's way with hepatitis (and you don't have time for the vaccines) but there's no such thing for pigeons either (now, THAT would be a wonderful rehabbing tool!). I think you're just out of luck except for warmth, good chow, clean water, supplements and piped-in loft sounds.

But you'd do better to talk with Terry about that because she's had several.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phil and Pidgey,

Anita has "livened" up the duck soup and treats with some of the things Phil had suggested. The Egyptian Goose has been self feeding since we started the duck soup. The dry lesions are slowly (very slowly) starting to drop off in tiny pieces. The inside of the mouth is still swollen, but that is also starting to show improvement. And .. the horrible smell is gone. Anita and this bird still have a very long way to go, but I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

There is no medicine that is effective for avian pox that I know of. Good supportive care .. warmth, fluids, food, swabbing of external lesions with diluted Betadine or Tea Tree Oil or another drying agent is about all you can do. The pox will run its course, and usually the bird makes a full recovery .. dry pox that is .. the wet pox is a whole nother story. Sometimes a course of antibiotics will be given during treatment to try and assure that some opportunistic bacterial infection doesn't take hold.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Well, it sounds then to be looking pretty good all things considered!

Glad to hear they are eating well and the Pox is maybe receeding in it's symptom-making.

Viruses...

Yahhhh, I guess then just the best nutrition and support comforts one can do to aid their own immune system to negotiate the matter...


I have m-a-y-b-e seen one case of Pox but I am not sure. It was the other day, a feral Pigeon who had weepy Eyes and smeared shoulders from rubbing them...his mouth sides were 'puffy' also and the tiny Feathers there were puffed out. 

I was not able to catch him and I have not seen him since. He looked decidedly unhappy, but was wary and a very strong flier.

Something like whatever he has, whatever it was or is, would maybe be bad news for others drinking from the same common Water Bowls as him...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*New Pictures*

Hi All,

Anita brought the Egyptian down this morning so I could have a look at things. Anita was concerned that the inside of the mouth was getting worse. I thought there was actually quite a bit of improvement over where we started: http://www.rims.net/2006Feb18

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Can't really tell if it looks better or worse. I am glad though she is hanging in there and she has the wonderful care from Anita.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


She is eating well and with enthusiasm?

Pooping good?

Making 'narrations' vocally of things?

Good going there!

That is quite a handfull of a Bird! And quite a handfull of a medical challange there with that infected Mabdible Bill...
Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phil and all,

This bird is being cared for by my friend, Anita. I am just too buried under right now to take this one on, and Anita is doing an excellent job with the bird.

Yes, she eats eagerly but that right side of the lower beak being so swollen makes it a bit difficult. Anita is supplementing with tube feedings. Poops are normal looking and plentiful. The bird is strong, in good flesh, and was definitely not amused with the picture taking today ergo the blurry pics of the inside of the mouth.

I'm still cautiously optimistic about this bird.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Yahhhhh...this one would be a lot of work to keep on top of in various ways.

Glad Anita is there to do the deeds with this one!

His own morale and immune system are of course the thing that has to beat the Virus over time...and he is one lucky Goose you found him and got things goping for his care and opportunity for recovery.

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*New Pictures Of Avian Pox Goose*

Here's some pics of the Egyptian Goose from today. Some improvement but still a long way to go. Anita will be taking the bird to another vet today or tomorrow to see if he can suggest something further to do: http://www.rims.net/2006Mar23 .. pictures are not pleasant, so look at your own risk.

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'd say that is definitely looking better!

I think that getting a "second opinion" is an excellent idea.

Thanks for the update.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terry, still looks bad but not as bad as when you first got him. How long do you think it will take to clear this up. What a wonderful job you are doing with him.

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Is Anita doing anything topically for this?

At any rate, this sure seems like one of those deals that take time and patience and lots of really good nutrition, for it to s-l-o-w-l-y receed and heal up.

Tell Anita to plant a big smooch right on top of the Gooses head from me...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I recently emailed (or PMed, can't remember) Terry about this Egyptian goose and she told me that the bird has hung on and is finally getting almost back to normal. Anita still has the bird but I think that we'd all like pictures and a complete report. So, everyone, let's nag Terry until she gives us one (with pictures)!

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds good...


I will begin nagging now...


Phil
Las Vague-us


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nag, when you have the time Terry....

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hey all .. Anita has done EVERYTHING for this bird .. we've done antibiotics out the ying yang, we've done every homepathic thing on the planet (that's Anita's realm with a friend of hers who is into it), we've done holistic .. again Anita's deal .. I only know how to treat them with regular meds .. who knows what may have turned the tide, but the tide has been turned and the Egyptian is now throwing off pea sized chunks of the crud with healthy tissue underneath .. this is very, very good news .. and typical of pox .. months and months and months of supportive care to even get the first break. Anita is a heroine in my mind.

It's a long way from being over for this bird, but Anita has done an unbelievable job of caring for it. I don't think we will ever know what "fixed" this bird .. assuming that it does get "fixed" .. I'm betting on the good supportive care, but know that others will feel otherwise. I can tell you for sure that the "normal" vet drugs didn't do it, neither did the homeopathic or holistic treatments .. I truly believe that this goose is a lot like a PMV pigeon .. only time and supportive care did it .. the goose did the rest . I wish I could say otherwise, but I just don't believe that any treatment that Anita did actually resulted in a "cure" for this bird .. this bird and it's body did the job.

Terry


Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Terry,

Actually the great supportive care (holistic, homeopathic, medicinal), & the caregiver, as well as time enabled the bird to heal itself.

Can we get a picture please....when you get a moment?

I would love to see the final AFTER picture to the original BEFORE pic.

Thanks for the update.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'll ask Anita to get some pics .. she takes great pictures .. she doesn't know how to e-mail them to me, however  We'll figure it out.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Yipppeeee!

So glad to hear things are looking so much better for the Goose...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks for the update, Terry. Sounds like the goose has had alot of TLC and is 
coming along nicely, Anita has done quite well with a most difficult case.

fp


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So glad this goose is improving! Sometimes it seems like everything we can do for them just removes obstacles and opens doors to make it easier for them to heal. Way to go, Anita!!!!


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