# Canker question



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

While at work my hubby got a call about an inured bird. This wonderful, kind animal lover found a dove, actually his dog had gotten the bird and the owner brought the bird over to my place.
This is a baby dove, still has a dinosaur beak, with a bad canker at the side of the lower beak. The canker was bleeding a little, now it stopped. But the problem is the beak is pretty loose, just the lower part.
Lee (hubby) gave her 1/2 spartix and started her on Cipro, hydrated her and fed her formula kept her warm until I got home.
I also started her on Flagyl.
The canker goes down the throat, it is pretty bad, but most of all I am concerned about the beak, I am terrified it will fall of. We are handling her as careful as possible when medicating and feeding and would appreciate any ideas, how to best handle this.
I know there is a great chance the beak could detach completly, I just want to do everything possible to prevent this.

Reti


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Oh Reti .. another very tough case for you .. I would drizzle the Metronidazole on the portion of the beak you are concerned about as well as giving it internally. 

Terry


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Terry.
I will do this. I don't know if this little one will make it, doesn't look too good..
Also, another question, how much does a 107gr dove eat? I gave her 10cc for dinner, is that enough?
During the day Lee gave her two cc's about three times. I feel it's not enough, but not sure, haven't had too many doves.

Reti


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti, 


Feed-Wise, I just use a cut-off 1/2 inch or so bottom end of a regular people-baby-nipple, and it holds a whole lot of not much ( 3 ccs or something?) , but is great for those really tiny Baby Dove Beaks...

Otherwise, seems like everything is about the same as a Baby Pigeon of course, only scaled down. Lol...

I have raised many Doves from quite tiny Babys, and I never thought in terms of ccs to say, but...if say she is 10 days or 12 old or so, likely 6 or 7 ccs eight times-a-day, or every two hours or so depending on how fast her system passes it, ought to be close...

Or, since they have expansive Crops just as our Pigeon Babys do, just feed some, see how the Crop is, and feed s'more, or not...and of course keep her so her body is about 100 to 105 degrees...and free of drafts and slightly humid...

Is she "peeeeeeeeep!' ing and nuzzleing allrighty?

Canker or other expressions of the Trichomoniasis are so often a difficulty with the Doves of all ages here...and, the Pigeons too...

If possible, see if you can switch to 'Ronidazole' and base the dosage on her weight...it is kinder to Babys or Youngsters than the others.

The Spartrix tablets presume a much MUCH heavier Pigeon/Bird, maybe a 450 gram average or something for Homers or other Kept Pigeons, and even a half a tablet is likely way too stiff a dose and might make her jerky and spazzy for a few days or tax her already compromised little Kidneys and Liver a mite too much too...

Maybe one sixth or one eight of a tablet...

Can you weigh her?


Anyway, Babys often have marvelous recouperative abilities, so, this Beak issue/worry just m-i-g-h-t have a chance to resolve allrighty once the Canker is eliminated...

Darned weekends...

I could next day air you some 'Berimax' which seems very safe for Babys and eliminates 100 percent of the Trichomona protozoans, but Monday would be the soonest I could manage...

Dribbleing a syrupy spartix-water solution or putting Spartix powder on the effected area sure will not hurt...

Best possible nutrition kinds and textures ( Sea Weed, Goji Berry and Seed powders mixed 50/50ish with Hagens say, ) will also be well worth doing...


Lots of warm 'Hand Nest' even, if she seems to like it, and if you have time, and, once they are accepting of our feeding them, and peep and nuzzle and so on, they do tend to like it and feel assured and comforted to have it...it is a good successor to being sat on...and to comfort them...and being SO small as these Baby Doves are, you can curl your fingers right around them and warm breath on them too, gently...which they like a lot...and it helps their humidity be right.

Is she active overall?

Peeping and asking to be fed?


Good luck...!



Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Reti,

10 cc was probably a bit more than was needed .. the doves are so much smaller than pigeons .. depending upon the age and size of this one, I suspect that 5-6 cc is about right .. even as they get larger, they can't take what a baby pigeon does .. maybe up to about 10-12 cc when larger .. just don't know the size you have. Really depends on the size and age of the dove.

Phil's approach with the baby nipple is a good one .. baby can eat as much as it wants and decide on its own.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lol...

Well...they can decide on their own about like any other little kid..!

They love to eat ! Eeeesh do they love to eat - so we gotta keep an eye on that of course, as for 'when' full...is "full"...! Lol...and I am always scared to stuff them, or let them stuff themselves, as much as their Bird Parents would have...

But yahhhhh...the little cut off end of the Nipple is easy and natural for them and they can chow down in their own fashion...

Just gently squeeze the sides of it to touch their Beak sides and let them lead on how one moves it while they swallow and then gobble again...

Most of the sick with Trichomoniasis Babys I have had, whether Doves or Pigeons, still had good appetites unless it was really bad...and it tends to clear up nicely enough with the right meds and doses suited to their weight.

Nice thing too about the "Berimax" is it is so much dry powder to a Litre of Water, so, the dosage is anyone's overall Water intake then in proportion for them aytomatically, regardless of their weight...and it is very forgiveing dosage-wise with no side effects unless one massively O.D.'s them...

"Warm" for sure...for this little Baby...they need to conserve and apply all the energy they can to get over this and heal up and get on with things...


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Terry and Phil.
I would love to use the nipple or ballon method to feed her, but she is not eating. I don't think she can move her beak, she keeps it slightly open at all times, not able to close it or open it enough. I don't think she can move her lower beak at all
I am not sure about her age, she is still growing feathers and she weighs 107 gr.
She is lethargic, not moving around at all. No peeping or asking for food, no struggling when handled other than when I try to feed or medicate.
The canker is going way down her thoat as far as I can see and probably even further down and after the feedings she is doing violent head shakes.
Droppings are slimey green with lots of yellow.
Can I mix the spartrix and Flagyl in her food so I don't have to open her beak too many times?
Phil, I don't have Ronidazol, we don't even carry it in the clinic all we have is Flagyl. If she makes it until Monday I would love to try the Berimax. I will let you know tomorrow morning how things go.

Thank

Reti


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

After feeding and medicating this morning it doesn't look too hopeful for this little one. The beak is hanging low and she is still quite lethargic. My heart breaks to see her like this.
Even if we manage to treat the canker we don't know what damage it will leave.
A year ago I had a pigeon with a similar case of canker. The canker was gone after a few days of treatment but she kept on loosing weight and doing poorly. A week later while feeding her the formula leaked out of her chest. I rushed her to the clinic and the vet went into surgery with her only to disicover that the canker had eaten away her esophagus and part of her crop. There was no healthy tissue left to do reconstructive surgery. It was a devastating experience for all of us and I just hate to see it happen to another little one.
I hate canker.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti,

I'm so sorry you have such a tough case, it must be heartwrenching for you to deal with this. Wish there was some way we could ACV all our wild bird waterers to prevent this disease.

I know you just want to dive in and do everything you can for the little baby, given the circumstances. You always give 100% supportive care and treatment. I know you want to be hopeful for recovery, and it is a struggle that perhaps it might not be.

Even though circumstances are very hard for this little dove, she is in the best hands she can be in. 

Sending my best thoughts and prayers to you and this bird, in such difficult time.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> *After feeding and medicating this morning it doesn't look too hopeful for this little one. The beak is hanging low and she is still quite lethargic*.
> My heart breaks to see her like this.
> Even if we manage to treat the canker we don't know what damage it will leave.
> A year ago I had a pigeon with a similar case of canker. The canker was gone after a few days of treatment but she kept on loosing weight and doing poorly. A week later while feeding her the formula leaked out of her chest. I rushed her to the clinic and the vet went into surgery with her only to disicover that the canker had eaten away her esophagus and part of her crop. There was no healthy tissue left to do reconstructive surgery. It was a devastating experience for all of us and I just hate to see it happen to another little one.
> ...


Hi Reti,
I'm so sorry this little one is having such a time.  
Just a suggestion, if you haven't already done so, offer her some rehydrating solution via an eye dropper alongside her beak, just a couple drops every few minites. This way you don't need to disturb the beak & hopefully some of the liquid will get past the canker.

I have also taken an eye dropper full of rehydrating solution, placed it in a small cup & dissolved a Spartrix in it. Then redraw the solution back into the eye dropper & put a few drops alongside the beak. It probably doesn't work as fast as popping the pill down the throat, but when that's an impossibility I resort to plan B.
God Bless you both. 

Cindy


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Cindy,
the thorat is not obstructed, thank goodness, so I can get a tube through easily and I also do as you suggested giving a little water with a dropper once so often. Lee did it yesterday until I got home too, every 15-30 min. The thing is most of the water is leaking from the side of the beak, since she cannot close her mouth and she also has a hole on the side where the beak joins the tissues/mouth. Also the person who brought her to me did feed and hydrate her all Friday. So, I can say she is well hydrated and fed.
More concerning now ar the head shakes and fits after the feedings. I hate to say it but that is exactly what my Sally did, the pigeon I mentioned above. After each feeding she had terrible breathing difficulties, gasping for air. The reason was, as we found out during surgery was, while feeding the food leaked out from the hole in the crop and esophagus and was irritating her air sacs.
I am just totally miserable today.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Thank you Treesa. I suggested to the kind person who is caring for the birds in his yard to purchase the 4 in 1 from Foy's and until then to add ACV in the water.
I will be in contact with him. He also wants this little one, maned Lucky by him, back when she recovers. Oh, I so hope for a miracle.

Reti


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Many thanks to you Reti and your husband for your heroic efforts to help this little one in such a deteriorated condition. All we can hope for is that her condition is not as bad as Sally's and that she will respond to your efforts.
The method that Cindy describes does work well, through the side of the beak,
especially if the beak isn't closing completely. You may want to try tipping the beak into the air (upward) while trying the side of the beak & see if the mixture will go down that way. Hopefully, the baby can do some minor swallowing if aided w/gravity. It's all hard to say, you are there in the moment, and can see the difficulties facing the baby in it's ability to take fluids, meds, & food. Doubt that you'll be able to get Berimax, it is not available in US anyway, at this time, the Flagyl & Carnidazole combo would get it if it is to be "got" I think, in a case like this, it's probably best to stick w/the know drug cures to be on the safe side.

fp


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> *I am just totally miserable today*.
> Oh, I so hope for a miracle.
> 
> Reti


Hi Reti,
Whenever I'm having a 'sad' day, I go through my photos & focus on the ones that are comforting & peaceful. I hope this will help ease your sorrows.

Wishing you & your sweet little patient a good day.  

Cindy


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Cindy, I want to pick up your little pij and give him kisses and kisses and more kisses on his sweet little head.
Thank you.

Fp, thanks I will try to give water through the hole although now I think the tongue is affected too, I don't see it moving at all.

Reti


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


This is pretty advanced case then of course, which may have eaten it's way into various contiguous tissues, as you mention having seen other times.

I have seen similar things also...

Good there is room to insert a feeding Tube..and of course small meals are best for a situation like this...

Might have other illness concurrently, but the Trichomoniasis itself I think can make for the slime-green and yellow poops...

ACV-Water would be good for food mixing and drinking...made at 2 Tablespoons to the Gallon for maybe four days or so then diluted to be more like 1-1/2 to the Gallon...

The head-shake thing seems to me to be how food or water in the mouth-throat do not 'feel' right and or do not clear out cleanly with the illness effecting these areas...and I have seen this many times with them when they have this.

Hopeing for the best for you two...!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Reti said:


> Can I mix the spartrix and Flagyl in her food so I don't have to open her beak too many times?


 According to my vet who handled a bad case of canker in one of my young fantails a couple years ago, that's the best way to do it. He put the meds in the syringe first, then the formula and gave the baby the whole works. Although as Terry said, you want to be sure and get Metronidazole right on the beak, too. 

Your poor little dove sounds like it's in very bad shape. Hope it pulls through. I know you are doing all that can be done.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Phil and birdmom.

I will mix the meds in the formula then, that will also reduce the stress from handling her too much. This is a dove, not very cooperative.
She must feel a bit better now cause she starts fighting me when I pick her up, something she wasn't doing yesterday. Also, there was no head shaking after the last feeding.

Reti


----------



## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi Reti,

I really admire how you care for these unfortunate birds. You, and so many other wonderful people here, are giving these birds a second chance at the life they so much deserve. 

Praying that Lucky pulls through.

Lindi


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,

Glad to hear of signs of improvement...!

The first few days are usually the worst of course...the meds take a while to get some leverage...

Such a delicate business with these little ones!

Good going...!

Consider to add some 'Nutrical' to her formula...it is a 'goo' and mixes nicely and is a great general nutrition and energy booster for them as well as containing important digestive enzymes and other goodies...get at any 'Petsmart' or the likes.

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Reti said:


> ....
> She must feel a bit better now cause she starts fighting me when I pick her up, something she wasn't doing yesterday. Also, there was no head shaking after the last feeding.
> 
> Reti


That's promising, Reti, they will shake their heads w/canker, sounds like the meds are kicking in.

fp


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Fp and all, 

With the head shaking, is it also a sign of canker when the bird is opening and closing it's mouth while doing this? 

Reason I ask is because of Henny. She's been doing this a lot too but I don't see any canker in her mouth She's not been right since the poops got stuck to her bum.

Sorry to butt in here.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Fp and all,
> 
> With the head shaking, is it also a sign of canker when the bird is opening and closing it's mouth while doing this?
> 
> ...


Yes, from my experience, it is. They will shake their heads, and open and close their mouths somewhat similar to yawning, but they are agitated, not sleepy.

Poops on the bum can be as well. Together, I'd be thinking about a treatment even if I couldn't see it in the mouth area. If you had an otoscope w/a light on it, it might enable you to look further/deeper into the throat and maybe you'd see it in a less visible area than to the naked eye.

Is the inside of the mouth a true pink, or is there some reddish streaking occuring?

fp


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks FP, 

I'm starting to get concerned with Henny and I keep finding it odd why I'm not seeing anything in their mouths, when Eggbert was sick and now the both of them. 

I am going to give her two spartrix tabs tonight before she goes to sleep and see how that goes. Then, I have a couple other things I might try...1 is turbosole and the other is a 10 in 1 product I ordered from Siegels. If she doesn't improve shortly, I'm going to have to take her to the vets.

I'm finding this all very weird...why Eggbert got the clostridium bacteria, then they both get constipated, now Henny is having breathing difficulties and possibly canker


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Brad, if she is doing this all the time I would have her checked out by the vet, he can swab her throat or even go with the enoscope down there to see what is wrong.
Angel had canker way down her throat which wasn't visible when just looking into her mouth but my vet took a swab from way down and it came back positive for canker.

Thanks Phil, need to get the nutrical, don't have any right now.

fp, and Linidi, thanks. The meds are starting to work, I can see the canker at the beak starts to be more well defined and a bit smaller. Scary that it does affect so much of the beak. I fear at least half of it is gone. And the hole at the joint of the beak is getting bigger.
Also there is less drooling (she had that too).

Reti


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Brad, I was wondering about that as well. Maybe the whole incident w/your Dad's health impacted them as well, 'cause they knew something was up w/you? Or, maybe it's just their 'turn'.

fp


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Reti and Brad,*

I am anxiously following this thread!

I sure hope all birds will make a full recovery!

I wish you both all the healing best thoughts I can send! Such a helpless feeling to watch and wait and not be able to help!!

Cindy, your picture was so perfect and beautiful!!


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thank you Reti, Shi...

I think that this might be the internal form of canker and this is why I'm not seeing any buttons in the mouth. I did find this site where it talks about the internal form and how it can affect breathing....and it scared me!

http://home.aol.com/mark06063/page4.html


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Geez, I am so sorry Henny continues to have problems Brad.   
Do you have her isolated & on heat?

I will think 'double' good thoughts that you are able to get whatever is going on, under control swiftly. 

Cindy


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Geez, I am so sorry Henny continues to have problems Brad.
> Do you have her isolated & on heat?
> 
> I will think 'double' good thoughts that you are able to get whatever is going on, under control swiftly.
> ...



Thanks Cindy, 

No, I don't have her isolated but I turned up the heat in the house and it's actually quite warm in their room. I'll check her again before I leave for work and set up a hospital cage if needed though. That's just it though, other than her breathing, there is really not much to go by and she's been behaving normally. Eggbert is totally fine too. If it's canker, they will both be treated with the turbosole in the water starting tomorrow. However, Eggbert was just on metronidazole so he should be fine...I think This is also different from what he had, the symptoms are not the same, so it's not that she caught it from him. Although I had suspected it was possible.

Just popped 2 spartrix down her and then I'll start on the turbo in the morning. I just don't know where this came from all of a sudden, there is really no reason for it. I keep the room very clean, they are indoors, not very stressed, she's not on eggs, or laying very often. They get all the vitamins, ACV, probiotics, good seed and bottled water. 

All of a sudden I get Eggbert with an overgrowth of clostridium bacteria...they get constipated and now Henny is having breathing difficulties. It just seems very odd and hard to understand what is going on all of a sudden

Thanks again folks,


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

*update*

She is better today. She is standing looking around, no head shaking after the feedings. The canker at the beak is smaller but she still keeps her beak open, she can't open it much or close it completely. 
Anyways, she is moving around more and seems more interested in her surroundings. I am hoping for the best for this little one.

I found out that better than applying the Flagyl on the canker with an eyedropper, I brush it on with a tiny make-up brush. It stays better on the area that way.

Reti


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

That's a good trick Reti, it probably helps to actually work it in to the affected area as well as enhancing the ability to direct the medicine to specific, harder to effectively reach, areas. I had a bird whose beak, for want of a better term, was warped open @ the area where upper and lower mandible meet. It seemed to 'close' and return to normal after the treatment with out any visible sign of 'warping'. Keeping my fingers crossed that your little dove will have the same kind of success with its beak after treatment.

fp


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> She is better today. I am hoping for the best for this little one.
> Reti



That is very positive news. We are all hoping the best outcome for this little one. Butyou have to remember, she is getting the BESTof treatment & care now & that is most important. She probably hasn't felt as good as she does now and hasn't felt this way in a long time.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you fp and Treesa.

For some reason she lost weight, I don't like that. I hope that it is because I might not be feeding her enough and not something else is going on.
How often do you feed a 3 week old dove. I am feeding her 6-8 cc's five times a day. And she went from 107gr to 103gr.

Right now she is on the desk watching out the window, she enjoys that, she just had lunch and seems to feel ok.

Reti


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Uhhhhhhhhh....I would guess a three week old Dove of a Hundred Gram weight therabouts...would, or could eat or be fed something like 10 to 14 ccs of feed, six, or even eight times a-day...

But I always do these things impirically and still am not used to thinking in review about how many ccs it was for what age and so on.

Your 6 to 8 ccs five-times-a-day would end up being about 35 - 40 ccs-a-day...

Where, more like 80 to 100 ccs a-day would be more like it I think...depending on how fast she can digest and pass it of course...

Her illness might be slowing down her digestive system too, or almost certainly is to some extent if it is involveing her Crop and Stomach and Gizzard and intestines and so on, so, just see how her Crop does with a 15 cc feed...and, if empty in two hours or two and a half, or close to empty, then feed again soon...offer ACV Water for drinking inbetween feed times for assured hydration and kidney flushing...even massage her Crop gently to assure the food is not clumping since it is likely powder based formula for the tube to pass it...if this seems to go well, try 15 ccs for each feed and see from there if the two hour window is working for it to pass or mostly pass...

I usually feed Babys or Peepers on a 16 or 18 hour schedule, or on my waking hours anyway whatever they may be, so, that is like eight or even ten smaller to medium feeds-a-day when I am on track.

She is having to be tube fed, yes?

I would consider to use the ACV-Water for her formula mixing and her drinking occasions also.

If she nuzzles, let me know?

Or, if she starts asking to be fed...

Is she more active today?

Do the meds seem to be doing their job well so far?


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Phil.

I tried feeding 10 cc's but some of it came back up.

I am tube feeding, yes, she cannot drink or eat, or doesn't want to. She is getting ACV in the formula several times a day.

No nuzzling or asking to be fed.
But she is more active today, she upgraded to a bigger cage today and does move around. So, I think the meds are doing their job. The canker at the beak is getting smaller but the hole and jaw drooping is getting worse.

Reti


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

*quick update*

Lucky is doing better overall, more active and started to try to peck at some small seeds. Only she cannot eat on her own due to the jaw drooping. I have no idea if she will be able ever to eat on her own.
She lost another 3 gr, have no idea why she is loosing weight that concerns me. Will do a fecal on her see if she has worms.

Reti


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Glad to hear of her improveing!

Of course time-will-tell on that Jaw.

These poor little Doves seem to get the toughest Trichomoniasis things sometimes.

You have a lot going on there these days!

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

You know too, it is possible to feed small whole Seeds in various odd ways, and some of those ways m-i-g-h-t work with this little one, especially if you can get her nuzzleing and asking to be fed...

The way I am thinking, is where one makes their fist as 'if' one were holding a Hammer Handle or something, only closed off at the bottom with one's pinky'...and of a smaller inside diameter than if really holding a Hammer Handle...so, more like so a fat first grade Pencil would fit.

Anyway, one fills this with small whole Seeds and guides that little nuzzleing Beak into it...and brings the hand up so that Gravity aid the little Seeds getting in there.

This of course is best done over a clean towell, since many of the Seeds will spill, but, sometimes, it is a way for them to get some anyway.

Another way, is to do almost the same thing, but useing only an 'Okay' sign for their Beak to enter, and then one sort of 'shovels' small whole Seeds into the sides of it with one's free hand finger tips, holding the resiviour of small Seeds in the palm of the 'Okay' sign making hand.

As long as her Tongue is working allright, this might work, even if it does not work really well, at least semi-well would be enough to get quite a few Seeds in there for a happy little Crop, and a change of pace for you both, from the 'tube'...


'Seed Pops' of course...too, with the right sized ones for someone of her scale...so long as you are sure her passage from Crop to Stomach will abide them...


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Phil.
I can need all the advice I can get on how to feed her to see what will work best. Seems like this one will be a baby which will have to be fed for the rest of her life. I doubt now the jaw will get any better. The joint of the beak seems to be destroyed and she can't close her beak, she can open it a little more than it is already open. Last night she tried to preen of course unsuccesfully, so have to this for her too until I get a mate to this for her.
She is also trying to peck on the seeds I offer her but they keep on falling out. Sad.

Reti


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


Well, she is definitely feeling better and better..!

The hinge of their Jaw is farther down than our is, and, maybe it is just going to need a little time for the muscles there to get back into shape or to heal from being effected, and or for them to loosen up again and regain their suppleness, I hope...

Rather than that there is actual physical erosion of bone, or of the joint/hinge areas, or erosion of too much muscle, from the Trichomoniasis having occured there in that area. Of course the muscle for closeing the Jaw is above it and more or less on the sides of their face in front of their Ear I would imagine...even as ours are...so, unless that area was badly effected,up there, it might be mostly some tension or stasis of the muscles which open it, keeping it open, for now...

Just speculating of course...

How old is she? 20 days old thereabouts?

I forgot, sorry...

She has done reall well so far!

I am keeping my fingers crossed...!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------

