# New sick bird - similar symptoms - Paramyxovirus?



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

The last pigeon I rescued had similar symptoms to my current one. The only difference is age. The last one seemed to be sick because he was just walking around before I picked him up. Then I was alerted that he was a baby (although he was so big). So i Just assumed he hadnt learned to fly. I took him in, fed him by hand, he got friendly, started to learn to eat on his own, and flapping his wings.. Then one day his demeanor changed. He was basically "sitting" with his head down. When he did get excited he would act a little erratic and run in circles, etc. Next day I opened the door and he was dead. face down. Like he was just standing and fell on his face and died. I was confused as to what went wrong. But then today I found an adult pigeon who was standing on my neighbors porch. Same symptom of any other sick or injured bird. They run to porches. I monitored him throughout the day. He had joined his crew and were pecking in the alley, but when I took out the garbage, they all flew away but he stayed.. He still kept pecking at the alley (which is just rocks) and when i approached him he tried to hurry up but just kept falling on his beak. Very similar as to what happened with my last one just before dying. I brought him in last night and ever since, he has barely moved and is just crouched down as if he is sitting. He is not eating and is still. I have put feed all over the floor and in several different sized dishes. I dont know how he could go from being able to peck and walk outside, to know having protection and just laying there. I have put food right up to his beak and he doesnt flinch. Since I had seen him do the face fall just as my last bird, when I googled it, I found Paramyxovirus and found that it included many other symptoms that the previous bird had as well, that at the time I didn;t think was significant. Im not a Vet, so I dont know anything, but I just wanted otherss to help by reading this and looking at pics and seeing what more I could do, and if it does have this virus at all. Food and water were not enough for the last one even after had spent several great weeks here (it did say its posssible for symptoms to return and that it takes 6 weeks for the virus to clear the system.. that is IF it had the virus).. either way, maybe im at least keeping other birds safe by quarantining the bird until it dies, but thats sad.. Im open to any and all solutions to get this guy back to normal.. pics coming asap.. thanks in advance


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*More pics - can't send more than one at a time?*

If anyone can help with the pic issue as well, much appreciated. If I add multiple ones, it just uploads the last one. Thx


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*Pic3*

His eyeball. Just trying to show everything.


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*Pic4*

Poor guy stick in statue mode. Although he has found a way to poop all over the place. Lol. Wish he would use his box with the comfy blanket. I have a sound machine going and also have a window half cracked with a screen behind a curtain so he can hear and get fresh air


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*Pic5*

Jdjdjdjdjdjdjdjdjd


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Droppings look like starvation droppings. For now, try to get food into him, otherwise he will die. Feed defrosted peas, there's lots of info available regarding that on this forum. 

Hopefully someone else will be able to help with the health issues. But giving food is the most important thing to do now.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

First of all if it was PMV in your last pigeon, he shouldn't have died if given supportive care like feed, water and hygiene. If he is unable to feed because of neck twist he needs to be hand fed defrosted frozen peas/corns thawed under hot water to get it to normal temperature. 
Had you hand fed your previous sick pigeon or he died of starvation?
If he died even with all the care it could have been a bacterial infection caused by salmonella named as paratyphoid. In rare cases of paratyphoid, neck twisting is seen and they die soon if not treated with antibiotics. 
Pls click on the link below to know more about paratyphoid and based on the symptoms in the second link about PMV try to differentiate if it is PMV or paratyphoid. 

www.pigeonmania.com/salmonella-paratyphoid-in-pigeons/

www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paramyxovirus__pmv_.php 

You can try to identify with the poop difference as well as other symptoms.
Hand feed him soon around 35 peas and allow him to drink water by dipping his beak in water dish and let him sip. 

There is an ongoing thread named as "sick pigeon - twisted neck" you can check it for some more information on similar disease, also there are links on hand feeding in that very same thread. For any questions, pls write back.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Looking at the poop, there seems white part of poop called as urates? Do you see urates in poop? If yes it is not PMV but paratyphoid and antibiotic treatment is needed asap else the Pigeon will die. If you see no urates, it could be PMV but look for other symptoms as well and update soon.


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*update*

I know this is late, but within hours after writing the original post he died. I did want to answer some questions and ask a few more because this will help in the future. The last bird was indeed hand fed twice daily. He drank on his own. Fed him the correct peas and a generic form of mixed seeds. Yet he still died. Maybe that will help with determining what may be going wrong with all these birds. Assuming its the same thing. Thank you for pointing me towards a second a similar condition that needs antibiotics. My only question is A.) Is there a quick and easy way to get them WITHOUT having to see a vet? Can i buy thme online or purchase from a vet? if so... Can I just give this to any "sick" bird and not worry about it harming them if they happen to not have the specific condition whether it be PMV or whatever the other one was.. lol.. thanks


----------



## mattyp12 (Jan 5, 2015)

*pmv or paratyphoid*

i would think that the first one had PMV and the second paratyphoid. As for why the first one died I can only speculate. Maybe I wasn't feeding him enough?? He was probably getting 20 pees + some mixed in seed twice a day. As far as water, I never really saw him drink, but did see him dunk his head a few times. Maybe he slowly starved to death or died of dehydration. I certainly thought I was feeding him enough, especially for a young bird that needed force fed. Every pea down the throat was a victory! We had to take many breaks. It was time consuming, but I thought it was enough.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

mattyp12 said:


> i would think that the first one had PMV and the second paratyphoid. As for why the first one died I can only speculate. Maybe I wasn't feeding him enough?? He was probably getting 20 pees + some mixed in seed twice a day. As far as water, I never really saw him drink, but did see him dunk his head a few times. Maybe he slowly starved to death or died of dehydration. I certainly thought I was feeding him enough, especially for a young bird that needed force fed. Every pea down the throat was a victory! We had to take many breaks. It was time consuming, but I thought it was enough.


Here are pre-written feeding instructions. Twenty peas a day is not nearly enough. You need to feed more like 150-200 peas a day. It doesn't need to be time consuming or difficult if you learn the method in the instructions.
Also, the droppings in the pictures look more like salmonella to me. A sign of salmonella is the neon yellow or green droppings.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/this-article-is-a-must-read-69608.html

You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines them without hurting them and makes it easier to handle. With babies that have been hand raised, this won't be necessary. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat. You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the bird’s crop empties until you know it is eating on their own. 
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. The next step… seeds. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas and corn make it lumpy and squishy.
In addition, you will need to supplement calcium for babies...about 20mg per day.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

mattyp12 said:


> I know this is late, but within hours after writing the original post he died. I did want to answer some questions and ask a few more because this will help in the future. The last bird was indeed hand fed twice daily. He drank on his own. Fed him the correct peas and a generic form of mixed seeds. Yet he still died. Maybe that will help with determining what may be going wrong with all these birds. Assuming its the same thing. Thank you for pointing me towards a second a similar condition that needs antibiotics. My only question is A.) Is there a quick and easy way to get them WITHOUT having to see a vet? Can i buy thme online or purchase from a vet? if so... Can I just give this to any "sick" bird and not worry about it harming them if they happen to not have the specific condition whether it be PMV or whatever the other one was.. lol.. thanks



Sorry to hear about your loss. 

You will have to identify it, which has what. In paratyphoid they need antibiotic immediately but in PMV antibiotics may harm. So PMV pigeon should not be administered with antibiotics.
In salmonella you can give them Baytril as soon as you identify it. You can find Baytril either online or through vet's appointment. All the sick birds are not given antibiotics, they may be sick because of other diseases like canker, worms etc so they will need different medicines for them. 

To identify between PMV and salmonella, you may consider following points:
1)Neck twist with paratyphoid is very rare so usually you will see neck twist in PMV but you may see it in paratyphoid as well as a rare case which was your second pigeon I think. 
2) PMV bird seems alert while in paratyphoid they seem sick. 
3) If you see diarrhea poop with neck twist, see if there is any white part in poop called urates, if there is no white part, it is PMV else it is paratyphoid.

There are other symptoms also, I am pasting here two links one for each i. e PMV and paratyphoid. 

www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paramyxovirus__pmv_.php

www.pigeonmania.com/salmonella-paratyphoid-in-pigeons/


Pls go through the links to identify better between PMV and salmonella.


----------

