# Potential Disaster For Local White Flock



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I am getting increasingly concerned for a local flock of mainly pure white doves/pigeons. They have lived for as long as the local pet shop keeper can remember in a derelict building at the rear of his shop.
The shops have been sold for redevelopment and this will mean their home is soon to be demolished. They are beautiful birds and when I asked the pet shop owner what was happening about the birds, he just shrugged his shoulders and said, it was a shame but nothing as far as he knew.

I managed to climb up and peek through a broken window and could see two dead birds but could also see many others perched about in various corners, and lots of cooing!

I've tracked down and spoken to the developers who now own the building and the date for demolition is possibly the 1st May. I rang them again today and the secretary said she had spoken to her boss and that they are now aware of the birds but doesn't know what, if anything, is planned. She did say perhaps they would contact the RSPCA or RSPB, but this filled me with horror as although I've been referring to them as 'doves', they might just see them as pigeons and we know what that might lead to. I'm now a little concerned that by making them aware of their existance, I might have put the birds in more danger.

My question is, should I be worried about them losing their home, and what is the worse case scenario should they just go ahead and knock it down without trying to move the birds first. What would pigeons tend to do, stay around trying to find their home or relocate themselves naturally?

Obviously I'm concerned in case there are any babies and did say to the lady that I would prepared to go in the building and take any squabs rather than them be left to die, but she couldn't say if that would be allowed. I am ringing her back next week to see what she has found out.

Janet


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

Why don't you just go in at night and catch them and relocate them. Its really easy to catch them at night. If it really bothers you I'm sure no one would have a problem with you removing them.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

I realy think its not a good thing to be stumbling around at night in an old building. Now there must be people in ENGLAND that can help you,and I would hope that they will post here soon. .GEORGE


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

george simon said:


> I realy think its not a good thing to be stumbling around at night in an old building. Now there must be people in ENGLAND that can help you,and I would hope that they will post here soon. .GEORGE


Exactly...and a figuring out a place to take them to before the rescue is made. 
How big is the old building?


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

A big rescue operation requires lots of preparation. As we learned in Phoenix, once birds are being removed some will relocate themselves. The most important thing is education. Make sure the owners know that poison isn't the answer to cleaning out the building first. If worse comes to worse and the only way is to catch them, you might have to find somebody to keep them locked up while the building is being demolished. Afterward just let them go in a flock and they will find somewhere to live. That takes the birds out of danger but still lets them be free.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about this dilemna. 

Can you estimate about how many birds you saw? Considering that, you might be able to guestimate how many youngsters there could be????...... since breeding season is in full swing.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Maybe you get the names of the companies involved in this so we can write letters or maybe will make any difference.
Someone told me about a person that had a pub and the pigeons wore building nests into the building and he could not remove the nests so he had to call a pests company
If you get any squabs I can help you with them by taking some, I have special food for them already.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

May (only may) be useful to let PICAS know of the situation, and possibly make the new owners aware of them. 

I don't know if they could or would get involved, to be honest. It's just another possible line of enquiry.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My guess is that they will let the pigeons relocate rather than kill them , that is what they usually do. But there is always the danger of someone going in at night and shooting them.

I don't think poisoning any birds is legal now. 

It is the nestlings that will be in real danger. They will need to be removed and taken to somewhere with the facilities to raise them.

It is a long journey to Norwich, but if we can keep them warm enough during the journey then we can take them to Hallswood .

We bought a pigeon trap for the relocation of the Kettering birds which we can use again.

Get as much information as you can, Janet. Once we know what we need to do we will all pitch in. Remember how Jayne managed to save 21 squabs when they were "pigeon proofing" a railway bridge!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi All, 

Thanks for the support. The building is locked up so no possiblity of going in unattended I'm afraid. Also it looks very rickety and may not be safe. Another problem is it's a two storey building with a dodgey staircase. The birds enter from the top floor window and some are roosting up there. I would imagine they would have to block the windows so they couldn't escape if anyone were to attempt capturing them.

Trees Gray, There aren't a very large number I don't think but as the inside is so dark with many nooks and crannies I can't be sure. I'll go back tomorrow and have a further look. I also noticed a couple of Magpies coming out of the windows, so the poor babies, if there are any have got another problem.

Cristina, It crossed my mind about writing but as time is getting on I thought I'd better try phone contact first. I don't know if anyone else thinks that might help.
The lady I spoke to is the secretary to the lady who is in charge of this development, but she said she doesn't attend the meetings so didn't know what they were planning. She will see her boss on Monday so I said I'd phone again after she had seen her. At least she did pass on my message of concern, you do wonder when you end up speaking to a secretary whether they will bother their boss with such matters!

Cynthia,
I did mention this to Jayne the other day when I phoned her as I remebered she did that wonderful rescue before. It was the squabs she was most concerned for. I've got to go out for a while now but will keep you posted with anything I find out.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Janet


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

You guys are silly. I help people all the time remove pigeons from there buildings. Its actually a lot of fun. 2 people can catch more pigeons in one night then most people can shake a stick at. Shoot some barns we have caught 200+ pigeons out of. You allow the people to make the repairs or what ever is needed to keep the pigeons out then let them go. They relocate just fine. Saves the pigeons life. Makes me good contacts and makes the owner happy. But everyone has there own Ideas.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Shrek, I think you are missing the point. By law we are not allowed to enter another person's property, derelict or not, or to remove birds or nests without theproperty owners permission and a special licence from DEFRA or Natural England. What we are trying to work out is how to get the site owner's approval to remove any squabs and to remove and relocate the adults if appropriate.

Janet, if they start to bring up health and safety issues and insurance then you can tell them that Pigeon Aid will hire a professional to remove the nests for us to save the squabs and to secure the building so that the pigeons can't get in to lay more eggs. If there is a cull planned then say that we will hire professionals to help us trap and relocate the adults.

Did you watch Coronation Street tonight? Is there any chance that there are bats roosting there? 

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Well that's sorted then Shrek, when can you come over!!!!  (joking).


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Cynthia,
I have just been to play tennis and missed Coronation Street, what was it about?
Lost most of my games too as I was too busy thinking about the birds and what to do next. I was in fact going to ask you if I could at least use Pigeon Aid's name to give them the impression I was connected to a formal pigeon rescue group, that way they might be more communicative with what's going on. I would hope they might be pleased that someone could take over the problem for them.

You've hit the nail on the head exactly with your reply to Shrek, it is getting them to let us take action. I can tell from the cut off in the conversation that she just took me to be a mere 'bird caring member of the public', 'now that you've told us, leave it to us' type of attitude. Pleasant, but I'd hit a brick wall then.
So that's brilliant, I will get that message through to her now hopefully before they have any more meetings about it.
The old Health & Safety issue is what I expected them to use as an objection to me going in by myself.
What is it the position with Defra in these situations, do we need to inform them at all if we were to get the go ahead?

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

We will need a general licence, but as far as I know they are just printed off the Internet...something I mean to pursue at a later date. 

On Coronation Street Tony finds out that Roy has realised bats are roosting in the building that is being converted, so he goes to have a word with him. 

Tony suggests Roy keep quiet about it. Roy agrees, then says that of course he has already informed the Bats Conservation Trust and Natural England , just as he thinks Tony himself would have done . LOL

http://www.bats.org.uk/batlaw/Bats%20and%20the%20Law.htm

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

LOL back.


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

cyro51 said:


> Shrek, I think you are missing the point. By law we are not allowed to enter another person's property, derelict or not, or to remove birds or nests without theproperty owners permission and a special licence from DEFRA or Natural England. What we are trying to work out is how to get the site owner's approval to remove any squabs and to remove and relocate the adults if appropriate.
> 
> Janet, if they start to bring up health and safety issues and insurance then you can tell them that Pigeon Aid will hire a professional to remove the nests for us to save the squabs and to secure the building so that the pigeons can't get in to lay more eggs. If there is a cull planned then say that we will hire professionals to help us trap and relocate the adults.
> 
> ...


Sorry I thought you could just ask permission and then get the birds. Most people here are more then glad to get rid of them and will practically pay you to take them out for them. You guys have a few laws over there that we don't I guess. Sorry. Good Luck!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Bats in the Attic!*

Cynthia, I have just read the Bat website properly that you posted last night. Sorry I was a bit slow off the mark there, We need Bats to be in there with the pigeons!! ( I could have sworn I saw one fly past me), I wish.
I'm going down now to have another peek in the building, I 'll ask the shop owner, just on the off chance.

Janet


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## Nosferatu09 (Mar 5, 2008)

I wish you all the best of luck with this affair Im so glad those little doves/pigeons have people that are now trying to look after them, CHEERS! GOOD LUCK! )))))))))


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

amyable said:


> We need Bats to be in there with the pigeons!!


So, Plan B --- where do we find some homeless, down-on-their-luck bats!

John


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

John_D said:


> So, Plan B --- where do we find some homeless, down-on-their-luck bats!
> 
> John


Do you have, Craig's List?!!! Haha!!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Rats, No Bats There !*

Went and had a chat with the owner of the pet shop again today and asked about any possibility of Bats. He said, he wished, as that would have stopped them shutting them all down. Unfortunately they have been round and checked for whatever they check for, to see if there were any bats in the shops, before they started. Rats.  

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Photos*

Hi, Just an update for today.
I went back and took some photos and the shop owner came to see what I was doing. He told me that a man from the developers came to see last week, must have been after my call he reckons. The shop man told him about the birds and he said he knew, and they were going to have to get someone to get them out. (He thinks that's what he said). 

Anyway he was fine about me taking photos so I tried to get a better look through the window, a bit difficult as they are barred downstairs.
I could see at least three pairs of birds on nests, I don't know if they had eggs or babies, they were just canoodling and kissing. (I felt like a peeping Tom). I only counted twelve birds in the downstairs but there's no way of seeing upstairs, and that's where they come and go from. The man said there could be a hundred up there, but I don't really think so, maybe more than downstairs, but I'd be very surprised after looking again today and watching for a while if there were that many. I maybe wrong but I'm hopeful it's a lot less.

There was a lot of coming and going but as some of them are pure white, it could have been the same ones each time, so I just don't know how many.
I saw one coming in with some twigs, so at least another nest being built, and there was a lot of cooing upstairs and I could see one displaying and chasing a hen, so potentially more on the way.

I walked around to the other side of the road and down a side alley found the door to the building which was padlocked up, but at least I know where it would be entered from now.

I can see an aura around this Angel.
































These are some of the birds, I saw pure white ones, a couple of grey ferals, and then there's obviously been a bit of mixing!! judging by the two here.

Tomorrow I'll try and find out who came to see the birds and if there is a plan yet.

I went to the 'sanctuary' where I volunteer today and had a word about housing the birds for a short while if it really came to that, and they said they would be glad to. I've got mixed feelings about that but it's a back up anyway.

So that's the latest as of today.

Janet

(Thanks for your good wishes Nosferatu09, very kind of you).


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Janet, you are doing a great job of keeping tabs on them. 

All that's needed from the owners is co-operation - if the only thing they give to the situation is agreement, the rest of it can be ironed out. 

Once a professional is hired to do the clearing out (be it by the owners or Pigeon Aid), then I would expect they'd make a preliminary inspection, at which time you'd get a better idea of the occupants - like, numbers of adults and vulnerable young. If it seemed likely that some might need to go to where Cynthia suggested, then it's just a matter of us being there with transport at the right time. There may be birds who need treatment for something, too, but let's hope they are a reasonably fit bunch.

It's such a shame that they have to be evicted, though. Places like that make such good 'caves' for pigeons.

Charis ... may not be any bats on Craigslist, but I spec there's a few out-of-luck nuts 

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi John,

I've hit a bit of a brick wall today and am feeling a little despondent following a conversation I've just had with the secretary at the developers.
It started off ok when she said she had got some news. It was that she had spoken to her boss and they had been and had a look at the site. Her comment was that there were a few dead birds and 'just some pigeons', couldn't see any white doves. She hadn't gone in the building so would have only been able to see as much as I did from the window, not the upstairs. Granted it's not very savoury in there and these people are a bit high brow!! I can imagine their reaction as it is a bit of a mess.

So her news was that her boss was liaising with a consultant to sort it out.

I told her that I had contact with an organisation that would deal with this for them etc. but would need some more information with regard to when they wanted the site cleared. Also that I could do with having access to establish how many birds and nests there actually are. 

(It maybe that although the shop will close on May 1st, the work on the site may not start immediately and so the birds could stay a while longer, nobody seems to know). I went and spoke to some of the other shops in line for closure and they have dates as far ahead as October /November this year, due to leases that are still running.

Anyway, enough rambling on, I asked if I could have an email address so I could at least pass on details of Pigeon Aid and what we could do to help.
I have the secretary's email address now and she said she will pass anything on if I wish to send her some info.

I'm glad I took some photos of the white birds yesterday, I was beginning to think I was going mad. I only counted five birds downstairs today, and they were all white, and from the top I only saw two coming and going today, and they were both white aswell!!!!! Perhaps she had her sunglasses on when she went. 

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I am thinking that maybe would help if there is being made a bigger deal of the businesses side for them, there would be money savings for the company if they allow this pigeon friendly organisation to deal with it. Perhaps otherwise they would have to call some pests company that charges a lot of money. Maybe this secretary missed to highlight this.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Chris,

That's a good point, I did inform her of Pigeon Aid and that if they so wished we could perhaps arrange to help with the removal of the birds.
I didn't want to commit anyone though at this stage to coming all the way here to help, if it was in fact something I could deal with myself. I would feel very bad if they did so and the job didn't warrant it. If I could just get an idea of how many birds we're looking at, then we could make a decision as to what to suggest to the company, but without going into the building, that's impossible. Even then there's no knowing the number of adult birds for sure as, like today, there weren't so many visible, and obviously they might be out a lot of the time.

What I need to try and establish from them is who they are contracting to deal with this, and even more importantly, how they will be dealing with this. If there is to be a cull then I'd want to step in and would need help to catch the birds, if we are allowed to to so. If it's just squabs that need helping, then I could handle that if there aren't too many, at least for a few days.

The secretary doesn't get into great lengthy conversations and that's why I asked for an email address so I can get all the info across to her that way. It is very difficult when you're not actually talking to the decision maker. I asked the shop keeper about the 'boss lady', he said she was a bit 'short', and he didn't mean in height!

Cynthia/John, I think I could do with speaking to one of you directly over the weekend if it's possible, before I put anything down in writing to them. Let me know if you think so.

Thanks, Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Cynthia/John, I think I could do with speaking to one of you directly over the weekend if it's possible, before I put anything down in writing to them. Let me know if you think so.


Just what I was thinking, Janet. Have you still got my number? I will PM it anyway.

Also, John is going to work out how to link you in to Pigeon Aid e-mails and will provide you with the stationery if you need to write to anyone officially.

If you need one of us to write just let us know.

In the meantime, John, Jayne and I are looking into ways of keeping any hatchlings warm for long journeys. Helen designed her own critical care tanks and has offered to help when we had another impending "renovation" crisi, so I will see if she is still willing and able!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

You're all brilliant! 

Cynthia, Any particular time of day to catch you by phone?

I've been racking my brains to think of people I could call on to help if birds needed to be caught. I PM'd Mini-Paul, as he is fairly local to see if he could help, but no reply as yet. Also PM'd Abby, (Wildlife Rehab), who works at Amerton Farm, British Wildlife Rescue. It would be too far for her to come but to see if they had any equipment I could borrow, I could always drive to fetch.
I could see if any of the 'sanctuary' staff would mind helping, I'd have to buy them a drink probably! That would depend on what time of day though. Just thinking of people who are ok with handling birds, not many I know of unfortunately.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*No News Yet.*

I still have had no response from the developers to my request to help these pigeons. I will be phoning again next week but in the meantime have been going down every day to make sure they are still ok.

Today I was lucky enough to see them flying about, and then one of them came down to the shop I was standing outside. I noticed that this one was very tame and was in fact a homer with two bands on it's legs. It came close while I fed it but I couldn't read it's band. Then another one I see out in the nearby Sainsbury's car park came down and it too had a band on it's leg which I'd not noticed before.
I don't think that all the white ones are banded but I can't be sure but does anyone know if in the UK this would give them any more protection should the developers decide to have then culled?

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I don't think that all the white ones are banded but I can't be sure but does anyone know if in the UK this would give them any more protection should the developers decide to have then culled?


I think it would be against the law to kill an animal that plainly has an owner, after all the law says that if an injured homer needs anything more than first aid treatment it must be given by a qualified vet.

I once read instructions for trapping and killing pigeons and those instructions specified that banded pigeons must be released. That is why I put a band on any rescue that I release.

But it is the squabs that I worry about most. They can exclude tha adults without harming them but the squabs are at their mercy. And , of course, if the pigeons were to be shot then they would probably not even notice the bands.

Thanks for keeping such a close eye on them, Janet.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Have just been down again this morning and there was another bird sitting close to the window and it too had a band on, I could just make out it was an 07 number.
Two beautiful white ones have started making a nest where I can see them, one is sitting on it and the other is coming in with twigs, I do hope they have time to rear any babies they have.

At least if I know that it is normal to release any banded birds with a bit of luck if she is ignorant of this I can drop it into a conversation or correspondence, it all helps.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Latest News On The White Flock*

Hi All,

Just to get the story up to date. I have been liaising with Cynthia behind the scenes but it's been a long time waiting for the developers to let me into the building to assess what we are faced with.

At last today I had a meeting with the Project Director and Manager at the actual building. They have agreed that they are happy to see this dealt with in an humane way for the birds which is great relief. I have been going down to see the birds regularly and there has been a lot of cooing and mating going on! Last week I could clearly hear some squeakers but after a few days it went quiet and I feared they were gone.

The lady who met me was extremely nice and once we got chatting was very open to what we wanted to do. The main problem arose when she realised no-one had a key to the place! It was double padlocked and boarded up apart from the window the birds fly in and out of. No, I wasn't prepared to climb up there to get in!!
She called the Project Manager and he had no way of getting in either. So.... we had to set about breaking in. For a derelict building it was very secure, we unscrewed all the nuts to get a door off only to find another door behind it!!
Eventually we had to resort to kicking it in and I could then crawl through a small gap. The first thing I saw move was the biggest rat on this earth!!!!!!

Armed with my torch I gingerly made my way about downstairs, it was eerily quiet after all the cooing that normally goes on had stopped with all the noise. Then I started to get very dispondent. I made my way into a dark room at the back of the building where I have seen many of the birds running in and out when I've thrown food down to them through the window. In each corner was an empty nest with broken eggs and masses of white feathers spread about. These nests were all on the floor. I could tell this was a recent massacre, without going into details.

I then climbed up the old wooden stairs, there were couple of steps missing but I could reach the top. I was greeted by a mad rush of wings as all the pigeons flew for the window. Hard to count but I counted twenty after some had already gone, so a rough guess I would say there were about twenty fiveish, that flew out, of course there may well be more as there were some others outside when I arrived. They were gorgeous, a lot of pure white ones and some speckled, at least a couple of racing birds and an odd grey one or two.

There was one nest under the stairs on a shelf that had two eggs in, one on another shelf with one egg and I could just about see a white bird in small whole in the wall, obviously sitting on a nest. So out of all those birds I only found three viable nests left. There are a lot of rafters in the roof but I couldn't see any obvious places with more nests.

It was very sad really as I know there should have been lots of happy squeaking going on, and I had gone armed with a few boxes in case I could spot any birds that I could have helped today.

It's obvious, as I had feared, that the poor birds are being preyed on by the rats and Magpies that I have seen going in and out. So maybe it is for the best that they have to find a new home as they won't survive and manage to breed very successfully there anyway.

The demolition isn't going ahead for at least another three months. We decided that if we shooed the birds out now, as there are a number of other buildings around also due for demolition, they might well find a new home in the vicinity, and be in the same danger. So they are going to let them stay there for now and contact me four weeks prior to the work starting so I can be there to ensure all the birds are safely out, before the windows are finally boarded up. Then if there are any babies I can take them away then.

In the meantime I'll keep an eye on them and feed them so they are fit and well by the time they are evicted.

I did suggest to the developers they could provide a dovecote in the plans for the grounds, but as the place won't be completed for two years so it wouldn't be any help for these birds. 

Well at least they won't be killed and thanks to Cynthia and John for giving me the back-up of Pigeon Aid to be able to convince the developers not to use the Pest controllers.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet,


This is sad and good news in the same time. 

I am glad to hear that they are going to contact you four weeks prior the work staring. You never know who might be there that needs help.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I realise there is always the possibility that there might be some squabs when I do go the next time, so I will go prepared. The ones that are eggs now will be well developed by then if they do manage to rear them.

I had a bad feeling last night when I sat and thought about what I'd seen. I might have made things worse for them by feeding through the window, obviously that made things easier for the rats. Not only did the birds have food but so did the rats. I'm only going to put food outside on the roof from now on. Also I wish I had got a way of blocking off that horrible downstairs room where they'd nested on the floor so they might have been encouraged up in the roof where it is safer. There was nothing there I could have used and the building is now sealed again so I can't go back and try.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet, 

Please don't even think of blaming yourself for the rats! There are so many rats around, they had probably already found the pigeons before you did.

I am so glad that you built up such a good rapport with staff. It is so much better when they want to work with you because they believe in what you want to achieve.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> I am so glad that you built up such a good rapport with staff. It is so much better when they want to work with you because they believe in what you want to achieve.
> 
> Cynthia


That was the one good part of the meeting. I got the impression from her secretary she might be difficult but far from it. She has given me her direct number if I need to speak to her at all.
After a while, although she was dressed in a very smart suit, she even helped with breaking the door down!! She did ask a lot about Pigeons and seemed genuinely interested, thought it was hilarious I had a sick one in the airing cupboard. (Got me down as a right weirdo).
She asked me what I thought about the plans for the development. I decided to lie as I wanted to keep her on our side!!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sounds like you are doing all you can, Janet, to help these birds.

Amazing what diplomacy can do! You have done an amazing job and I sure hope all will go well at the time gets closer! 

Wishing you ALL THE BEST! The world could use more like you!!

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great work. Thanks for sticking to it.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*The Worst Has Happened*

Hi, 

I posted about this flock a good while ago and all has been well for over a year now. Due to the present financial climate the development company went into administration and the demolition work was cancelled. So the flock have been able to carry on living here ok. Unfortunately since the shops have been empty, the local yobs have decided to play havoc at night breaking in and doing a lot of damage. I've still been feeding the birds twice a week and keeping an eye on them, but the building was getting quite dangerous.
Inevitably boardings started to be put up and I was only able to feed by throwing food onto a roof. A few weeks ago I found the whole ground floor had been boarded up with steel shutters but was pleased really as the birds access through an upstairs window was left open, better for them I thought. 

I've just been away for two weeks and today popped down to feed them.
I was horrified to find their window has now been sealed and the pigeons were just sitting on the roof. Some were trying to find a way in and I am so scared that just maybe birds might be trapped inside.

It's been a nightmare afternoon and I kept hitting brick walls trying to find who unltimately could help get it opened up.
I called PICAS for advice as to what I could legally do and she said not to wait any longer and try the RSPCA and hope I got a sympathetic inspector.
They said they'd look into it but I wanted to be there when they came in case there were any babies inside. They couldn't promise that could be arranged, so I've camped out there until it got dark tonight to make sure I didn't miss them. They didn't come.
BUT things started to happen. While I was down there I managed to track down the administrators who had arranged the work. When I got through to the main man, he was gutted and so sorry, he had no idea there were birds living there. So he has arranged for a contact from the security company to meet me in the morning and give me access and I can go in to make sure it's empty.

Then the RSPCA inspector called me back, not able to come until tomorrow afternoon but has given me authorisation in her absence to stop them sealing up the window if I find any active nests inside. Apparently, by law they cannot disturb any nests until the babies have fledged, and if they do she said I must inform her and she will prosecute them.  A pigeon friendly inspector!!
She said legally I shouldn't really take any babies away to raise if the parents are looking after them, but if I have real trouble stopping them sealing it again, then I can.

My dilema now is whether to leave any babies if there are any and hope the parents are left in peace to raise them, OR take them anyway and let them seal it up again so the flock will have to find a new home, ( which they're still going to have to one day in the future). Maybe they will be better of having to get used to not living there before winter sets in, I don't know.

It broke my heart tonight watching them flying around lost, they've lived there for years. The hardest thing was when it was getting dark they were flying at the boarding, they just couldn't understand why they couldn't get in. I'm heartbroken for them.
There are some unusual birds amongst them apart from the white ones. A couple of Rollers have joined them now aswell.
The leader of the flock is a lovely Grizzle who I trapped recently when he got some string wrapped around his legs. He's always the first down to feed. Tonight he sat on the top of the roof looking down at me, and there was nothing I could do to help.

I just hope they can find a new safer home, it's difficult for them though as these old buildings are disappearing fast.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I think they should at least wait until the cold weather comes until they board up that place. Until then there could be some hatching right now. But if you take some squeakers in and need a helping hand with them I can help take a few off your hands into care.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

The RSPCA inspector did say that we only need them to keep it open until the birds fledge, but it crossed my mind that it could be an ongoing process. There's nothing to say another bird won't lay eggs just as the one fledges.

It maybe like that last time I went in. The birds did tend to nest on the floor and the nests were destroyed. I have seen many rats lately.
Also the yobs have been breaking in and I even found a dead bird on the roof, can't be sure they haven't been killing them.

I was just thinking it might be harder on them living out on roofs if they've been used to roosting inside up to now, and the winter might be a bit rough on them as some are banded and not out and out ferals. Maybe gives them more time to adapt if they are forced out now when it's warmer.

Another thing bothered me as I watched them. When they couldn't get in the window, they went up on the roof and there are some missing tiles. If they find another way in and get stuck it would be hard to get back out. I will only get this one opportunity to go in, it's going to cost them a call out charge he said, so they won't be allowing me another visit. Maybe it's better if I know it's clear and secure and they are out and safe.
There was certainly a lot on displaying going on today so I'd bet more eggs would be laid soon.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Thank goodness the birds are back in their building again tonight after a lot of prayers and a lot of talking.

I met the security manager this afternoon at the site to go in and check for birds. I spoke to Picas again this morning and Emma confirmed that if there was any chance they could get in through a hole in the roof they must be given a large enough opening to exit again. If it had to be totally emptied of birds, then it had to be guaranteed totally secure.
It was really grim inside, worse than before, and there were two birds trapped in there. Thank goodness we went in as they couldn't have got out. One escaped as we opened the door. The other one was upstairs, and I was quite pleased when it tried to get out through the gap in the roof, and it couldn't. This gave me the ammunition to quote Picas and insist he made a bigger exit hole.
Initially he wanted to catch the pigeon and then block the roof hole up, my heart sank, but I noticed a few other small gaps around and pointed out we couldn't guarantee they wouldn't come in another way and be trapped again.

He then relented and suggested an amazing thing.  He said he would tell his client he was sure there was a nest up high, well there could have been, and there were trapped birds, so in accordance with the RSPCA instructions, proceeded to cut a hole in the boarding of their original window entrance, just big enough for a pigeon to get through. (It turned out he used to keep racing pigeons so knew what size they needed to be able to come and go). 

It was the best outcome I could hope for in the circumstances, and gives the flock the option of staying in there for a while longer until new plans are made for the site.

I did go back tonight to see if any birds had found the hole, and was so pleased when I threw come seeds up and a bird popped out, then another, so I'm sure the trapped bird would have got out aswell. Then my lovely Grizzle appeared and flew in a big circle above me. I'd like to think he was saying thank you. 
So let's pray the vandals leave the place alone and the flock can continue for a while longer in their home.

Janet


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