# how long can lone feral leave eggs while incubating



## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

How long can my lone parent Hen feral pigeon leave the eggs and nest while incubating and the eggs still be ok. She had second egg on monday and is spending a long time on the nest but likes to come off to see me when i get home, i dont want to be a distraction to her but also dont want not to give her the affection and time i normaly do so she feels abandoned, she always comes running to me as soon as i go outside, any past experiance of this would be helpfull, thanks inadvance from Piggy and I


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The thing is, she expects you to share the nesting duties, which a pigeon mate would do. The hen can't spend all her time of the nest, she needs to have some time away from the nest to eat, relax, stretch, bathe. Usually she gets a few hours to herself every day.

It would be better if you replaced the eggs with plastic ones if they are newly laid.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

sorry if it sounds like im moaning but we want her to have the squabs if possiable, and if i swap the eggs out whats the diffrence to her other than she will be sitting there for nothing alot of the time, am i missing somthing about the benefits of fake eggs to her well being, help please. in a previous post i was told not to take the eggs ans swap out with fakes and incubate as she will not trake the eggs back later, i should just leave her to it, can i take the eggs and incubate while she has a break she totally lets me into nest to mess with eggs at the monent and i agree she acts like it my turn to sit on them but im a bit heavy so incubator would be better if you think that would be ok to give her a better rest


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Raising squabs is not easy. It would be better for a lone bird to not raise young. 

Might you be anthropomorphizing this a little? In the wild she would actually abandon the eggs before they hatched if there was no male to be seen. She isn't as attached to those eggs as you might be.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

now ive checked what "anthropomorphizing" you tell me, Piggy watches telly with me, like LMFAO record Party rock and sit on the stereo and coos and dances when it on. Starts cooing at the back of the house to wife or kids when my car pulls up, runs up the stairs and dances on the top step sits on my knee at night, we dont make her she follows me all over, goes to the garden gate on Saturdays only and waits for me to take her for a walk down the street, im not making her do any of the things she does So if imagining things as you say then shes playing along, back to my question if we can, How long can she be of the eggs and them still be ok, if you have any idea?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Please think about your answer to these two questions -
1 - Why do you want her to have young ?
2 - If she does, are you intending on keeping them ?

If she is so happy at the moment, why put her through the stress of
having to bring up young ?
She will only bring them up (with a LOT of help from you) till they fledge, 
then at that stage as far as she is concerned, they will just be another pigeon, not a son or daughter.
If she decides it is too much for her & decides not to feed them, you will then have two young ones to look after also, which will give her added stress of not having your full attention.
She may well reject them and attack them because of this.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

First i would say 2 vets both said they were amazed she lived after whatever attacked her, then she has integrated herself into our lives more than i would of thought possable, So as to why, And this could be taken as selfish, i have been trying to let her have a full life and do all the thing a pigeon would do, I now have multiple ferals come everyday and she comes out and mixes with them, she made a male friend and now has eggs, just trying to help her do pigeon things.

As for keeping them i will be converting spare garage into a loft so if they want they can come and go. If i need to i will raise the squabs and try to soft release with the visitors we get.

Is there no instinctive bond after fledge?
And final back to my question, do you know how long it is safe for her to be off the eggs and them still hatch ?
And can i swap in and out the eggs to the incubator when she needs a rest?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

markasherratt said:


> ............So as to why, And this could be taken as selfish, i have been trying to let her have a full life and do all the thing a pigeon would do, I now have multiple ferals come everyday and she comes out and mixes with them, she made a male friend and now has eggs, just trying to help her do pigeon things.....


I dont see it as selfish, I do see where you are coming from, but she has now become so bonded to you and your family, that although she is a pigeon, she lives her life as a human pet in a human enviroment, and you & your family are in fact her flock.
She doesnt do any of the things that a normal wild feral pigeon would do, and seems perfectly happy with her choice.

Pigeons are not like humans in the way that we care about our children for life.
When young pigeons fledge & leave the nest, the parents keep an eye on them for only a short time. During that time the young become self sufficcient and that is where the relationship ends. After that, they are just another pigeon in competition for food, mates & survival.

I am not experianced enough to give you an answer to your 2 questions, but while I do understand your intentions are good (from a human point) I would think seriously about the unnessessary procedure & the stress it could cause just to give her say 7 or 8 weeks as a mother.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

thanks for your response knowing better the length of the bond helps, shes been on the eggs from monday so will watch her closely and step in if i see any nature change in her, ive been putting her first and will continue to do so, she just seems proud and coos for me to come to the nest and stroke her then shows me the eggs, i then feed her (she likes it, and comes to me when she want her food turning, so she can find favorites) Wife likes having her cause now im in the garden all the time not in front of telly or computer, few other have said try to get another injured pigeon for her, both for company and if mating then at least someone to share the load, thanks again


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

The length of time a bird can stay off the nest is dependent on a lot of factors. The biggest are the ambient temp and the chance that something will take the unattended egg. In January up here the eggs are cold in a few minutes. In July the will stay warm much longer. A pigeons body temp is 107 but I don't know the temp required for an egg off my head, but it should feel warm to the touch. 

Have you verified that the eggs are fertile? She will lay if she believes she has mated so the eggs may never hatch. Be prepared for her to simply abandon them in 2 eeks or so.

I still hold that this is not the best thing for your bird. As to your anthropomorphizing with this bird, let me tell you that of the 60 birds we currently have in our lofts, quite a number of them act like yours. And they stay in the loft. Animals are not smart, but they are not idiots. They discover through action/reward repetition what actions keep them fed and safe. Your feed back has trained her to act in a way that pleases you.

This is perfectly fine, but don't start thinking that birds and other animals have the same types of feelings that humans do. Particularly toward their offspring. Feral pigeons will abandon a nest if they think the young are sick. They will choose to not feed a bird for no apparent reason. They will intentionally kill young for no apparent reason. In the wild this is often thought of as survival. The bad news is that it happens in domesticated situations as well. These are "animals" not "people". 

Again, have fun but remember that this is going to be a hard thing for your bird to do. She is likely to give up. If she does remember that it is her nature. If she doesn't give up then make sure you provide extra feed, plenty of grit and calcium, and don't disturb her more than you need to. She will need her rest.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

I have not checked eggs, If you take eggs off a Hen when she incubating does it bother her or does she not care they have gone? I have more nutriant ready loads of food and grit. Just a quick point, i thouight pigeons have the intelagence of a three year old?
How do you know what feeling a pigeon has compared to us, do yours talk, I know human parent that leave there children, some abuse then, some even kill, maybe we arnt as diffrent as you think! And my pigeon has its food outside water outside and house outside but it comes in to sit with me, even when others are outside, nudges my hand to stroke her and coos when i do, there must be some emotion and feeling in her or else why bother, shes fed and cared for without coming to me, When her wing was ripped open i didnt find her hidding she walked up to me and sat at my feet, very clever for a pigeon, in studies pigeons have learnt over 300 objects there has to be some cognative skills involved, with intellagance comes understanding, we have no way of knowing how deeply a pigeon feels or understands, mine has developed new skills in a short time and is learning new thinks all the time. The story on the ste about the dffrence between having and keeping pigeons and having one as a pet from a very experiance pigeon breeder was fantastic and would recommend it to everyone. I will do whatever it takes to give back to my pigeon the love and affevtion she shows to me.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Most pigeons will let you handle the eggs. Just remember that she will get defensive and protect them well when you move them. 

As to the rest of your message, this is just a matter of opinion and maybe general experience with various animals. You are certainly entitled to yours and I am entitled to mine. I suggest we smile at each other and let it go. 

I hope you have a great time with your bird (birds if you find the male you are looking for). They are a lot of fun and do win places in our hearts.


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## sandbirds (Dec 7, 2010)

markasherratt - I have to agree a bit with others in that it may not be in your girls best interest to have these eggs hatch and have squabs to care for. Unless you plan on doing alot of the work as well, it will be too taxing on her. Squabs are very VERY demanding little things, and it will burn her out to be the only one caring for them. 
Just today I walked into my loft and my Luna and Lenny were BOTH off the babies, they looked like they needed a major break and that's two of them working together. 
Also, I really want to drive home the fact that your girl will not care about her babes once they are weened and out of the nest. It will be 'just another bird' that is in competition for her food and your love. 
I know how you feel right now, you want her to be happy with her babies and enjoy them as much as you will, but pigeons really aren't that way. It breaks my heart when I watch my girls act like they've never seen their offspring before. I want them to be mommies and love their little ones, but that's just not how pigeons are.

You say she doesn't care that you muss with the nest, so she most likely won't care that you candle the eggs. It's definitely worth it.. You seem to truly love this girl so it's a good idea to really think things out and decide if it's worth putting her through all that for really nothing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When I was very new to pigeons, and I used to feel badly about taking their eggs away from them, a friend said to me, Remember Jay, pigeons are only parents for a month. She was right. I mean, my birds still recognize their offspring, and they do allow them more privileges than they would to any other bird in the loft, but they are not like us, they only raise them and then move on to start another nest. It is instinctual. They do not feel about their babies as we do, once grown. She would really be better off not raising babies by herself. As was mentioned, it is a hard job with both parents rearing them.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi if its not to cold the mother can leave the egg for 15-20 minutes without a issue.
a few degree drop in temp should not be a problem.
the bird sees you as her mate that is why she allows you to handle the eggs. i do not believe they will be fertile. but either way let her come of the eggs and stay with you. if she leaves them for to long they will not hatch but does it matter to you? if you would like to have her have babies find a mate for her.
either way she sounds like a great bird ejoy her and good luck


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

just to add she does need a break and that is where the cock bird comes in.. she will be good to get off the nest to relieve herself, how long it depends on the temps outside..usually they can be off a few hours without adverse things happening..they just may slow down a bit in develpoment if they are indeed fertile.. if you want to check the fertility you can with a small flashlight in the evening at about 5 to 7 days after she sits on them.. if she gets on and off alot and does so every day it could have a negative effect on them., if your going to let them hatch if fertile then be prepaired to help her out when they get a bit older as the cock usually takes over the feedings at that point.. so you will have to learn how to hand feed a squab... before they hatch., this feeding will take alot out of her so give her more vitmains and minerals esp calcium.. it really is a stresser she does not need.. but because you want more pigeons she will have to deal with it.. the instinct to procreate is strong in pigeons, but it has nothing to do with emotions.. she would be just as "happy" or enriched if she only had fake eggs to sit...and healthier.. pigeons raise babies and lay again when the squabs are about 3 weeks old..that is pigeon life..so if you are trying to let her do all things regular pigeons do that is what they do..but then you would have pigeons comming out of your ears..so to let her do it one time really makes no difference at all... just two more pigeons to look after till they go off and find mates..and then they will make more someplace..perhaps in your garage..but you could always remedy that with fake eggs.. just as you can now with this hen.


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## markasherratt (May 1, 2011)

she is great, she came for a cuddle when i got home, ate loads of food and had a good drink, checked her eggs they were very hot, then she ran back to nest, so we will see, thanks for your reply.


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