# Found a sick pigeon, need some help!!



## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

hi! I just signed up specifically to ask you guys some questions! Tuesday I found a pigeon that I thought had been hit by a car. His scalp was exposed and bloody, his eye was a mess, and his head completely twisted. He could not move but was breathing. I automatically thought he was a goner and placed him in an alley way where there was some shelter so he could die in peace. Wednesday we had a horrible storm, it was very windy and cold, so I went over just to see if he made it. He was alive and being blown all over the sidewalk, so I picked him up and took him home. I'm keeping him very warm and toasty, hand feeding him Kaytee Exact baby bird formula, keeping his crate clean, and giving him plenty of water. He seems much stronger now (Sunday), he can move his head and stand up. However, today I found a boil on his wing and immediately thought paratyphoid. I called up my friend who is a vet tech (I'm unemployed and cannot afford to go in sadly) and described all of the symptoms. she told me to order baytril liquid quickly, and I did. Here are the symptoms he has:
Twisted head
Weepy, bloody eye, but I think its from scratches (I apply neosporin to it, seems to help a lot)
1 wing boil so far
Sometimes it looks like he's having a fit, but I can't tell if it's because he's scared or not. when his head is up it shakes very fast sometimes, and other times he can keep it still.
His stools are normal, but once or twice they were very runny and bright green. Otherwise, they are black and white and not runny.


Here are my questions (finally! lol)
1) how on earth do I give him baytril? I looked at lots of forums but the details are vague to me. 
2) I wash up very well after handling him, but this isn't contagious to me right?
3) If he survives and takes the baytril well, will he still be a carrier? I don't want to let him go into the wild if he will infect other birds!
4) How long does this take to clear up, if it does?
5) How often do I need to feed him? I currently feed him 4 times a day but I'm starting work next week and I'm wondering if he can go 8 hours in between breakfast and lunch.

that's all for now, sorry for the long post but I really want to help him!! thank you!


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

1. As far as I know there are different baytril "versions". I think it can be injectable or tablet. I assume since you said liquid it is the injectable drug. I think it's available in 5% and... 10% SLs. Which one do you have?
Can you weigh the bird soon (or guess the weight, if you can't)? Or check if it's severely underweight?

2. Nope, as far as I know, but you should always wash your hands after handling wildlife. Ideally, after handling pets too.

5. Usually you'd feed a very young pigeon 4 times a day. As they grow older, you can cut it down. I'm guessing it's an adult, right?
I am at school for 8 hours a day, and usually have no problems with feeding times in pigeons, especially if they are older. You should be safe on that side .

The rest of the questions - no idea. Or at least, not sure.


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

oh I should have mentioned that! It's 10% and said to put it in the water supply, but I give him water through a syringe. I tried weighing him on my scale lol, it doesn't even read. But he's not thin, and he's not losing weight at all from what I can tell. He is an adult, and in total I probably feed him 9-12 ml of formula a day, he is very good at telling me when he doesn't want anymore food so I don't want to force him in case he inhales it or can't digest it.
thank you for your help!! I feel much better about leaving him while I work now


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Runlizzyrun, welcome to Pigeon-Talk and thanks for helping this little guy out. Sound like he may have a few issues going on, where one condition lead to him not being strong enough of flight to avoid injury. The fits he have could neurological caused by paratyphoid or they could be issues as a result of the accident/injury or they could be from a virus called PPMV. Sounds like you have stabilized him for now, lets get to you questions:

Here are my questions (finally! lol)
1) how on earth do I give him baytril? I looked at lots of forums but the details are vague to me.

*Your friend the vet tech should be able to help with this, but if you know the strength of the Baytril you have add a 1cc dosing syringe (the kind without a needle attached) give the med is pretty straight forward.*


2) I wash up very well after handling him, but this isn't contagious to me right?

*Very little chance of picking something up, if it viral - none, if it is bacterial, like a family member with a bacterial infection you just practice good hygiene routine when caring for them, washing hands, not touching face, mouth ears before washing hands and so on.*
3) If he survives and takes the baytril well, will he still be a carrier? I don't want to let him go into the wild if he will infect other birds!

*The literature say that 14 days of treatment with Baytril will cure paratyphoid and the carrier state, but be warned, for some stubborn cases treatment could be as long as 3-5 weeks.*

4) How long does this take to clear up, if it does?

*See above, the injuries and other may take a number of weeks to heal and if by chance it is PPMV, this could take weeks as well.*

5) How often do I need to feed him? I currently feed him 4 times a day but I'm starting work next week and I'm wondering if he can go 8 hours in between breakfast and lunch.

*Can you describe better, with detail you method and how much he gets each feeding?*


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

*thank you dobato!*

I had feed him about 4 ml of baby bird formula 4 times a day, I accidently posted 9-12 ml a day, but it's more like 12-16ml a day. I give him 12-16 ml of water a day too


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

On the chance this could be a younger bird, have a look at this link, about half way down the page, what does he look like in comparison to the birds in the link (just hover your cursor over a photo to display age):

http://www.mumtazticloft.com/BabyPigeons.asp

Can you post up a few photos of him, as clear as possible, one of him, of his boil, of his injuries and one of his fresh droppings (poop)?

Thanks,

Karyn


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

ok so I couldnt get a shot of the boil because he was too figgity and its way underneath his feathers. However as I was feeling around I got really nervous, I noticed what felt like a bone go all the way down to his shoulder area which looks like its in the wrong position, very swollen and not symmetrical with the other wing. maybe it's a broken bone and not a boil? he's able to flap his wings. Now I don't know whats going on 
The pictures only allow me to put in web addresses, not from my pc! 
I really don't know what to do, I don't get paid for two weeks and I'm afraid if he isn't sick that giving him the baytril will cause problems. I'm also scared that if his wing is in fact broken it wont fix right and he'll never be able to fly. however, when he was picked up to feed he never seemed to be in pain when his wing was moved.


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

by the way, he looks about the day 32 photo. He's definitely an older bird.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Here is a post on uploading photos:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15

Yes, his wing could very well be broken, would be best to get him on the Baytril for this as well. Where are you located, by the way. The wing will need attended to, sooner would be better to give the wing a good chance at healing well, we may be able to find you some help, perhaps your vet tech friend could wrap it for you?

Karyn


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

*thank you again dobato!*

so, here are the photos I could get.
My friend doesn't know much about birds, just basics that she has in one of her tech study books, and the vet she works for doesn't "do" birds. I'm in Brooklyn, NY. There is a vet around the corner from me who takes birds but the last time I brought a hurt quaker parrot to him that I found, he let it die (didn't even look at it apparrently) and took my money for the convenience.
The pics arent that great, theyre from my phone. his poop has a green tint to it here, though it wasn't loose. He's trying to hard to keep his head up, which is a great improvement from Tuesday when he could only keep it on the ground. Maybe his shoulder looks so strange from joint swelling?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the photos, yes, looks to be a juvenile bird.

Back to information you wanted earlier, he will be able to eat/take in about 25-30cc/mL (3 times a day) of food when you feed him, 4mL is wayyy too little food for him, you can up it considerably. He should be getting 70-90mL of food a day, work up to this over a few days, so it's not too sudden, increase to 15mL a feeding , then to 20mL a feeding then to 25-30mL a feeding.

There are some pretty good resources in the NY area, please check back.

Here is a Post with information on fixing a broken wing.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=394228&postcount=14

People, could we please help runlizzyrun with rehabbers/rescue resources for him in the New York area, thanks.

Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Lizzy...contact NYC Pigeon rescue. Call the hotline and leave a message.

http://nycprc.org/

Keep it up, keep him/her warm. You are doing well so far.


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

thank you guys so much, I can't even tell you how much I appreciate it! I actuallty emailed nycprc.org a few days ago, but my email was blocked apparently. I will call them tomorrow!
As for the food, he refuses to eat after about 3-4 1cc syringes. I try, but I read that if you force it and they arent ready they could inhale it. I'm scared I'm doing more harm than good. If he survives ( I hope and pray) the next two weeks I'll have my first pay check and can get him to a proper vet. but I will try nycprc.org again. I hope they can tell me if the baytril I ordered will be useful.
thank you again, so much!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Have a look at this post for some information on how you may be able to help him feed better, you just need a better method and technique:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=475500&postcount=26

How about fluids/water, do you give or does he drink on his own and how much?

Thanks Jaye!

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

A good way to feed him would be handfeeding him defrosted, warm peas and corn. He's a bit too old for baby formula.

If his head is twisted but the lump is actually a broken wing, this could be PMV instead of paratyphoid. Antibiotic won't hurt if he has a broken wing and either PMV or paratyphoid.

From the Baytril site:
Pigeons:
5 – 10 mg/kg b.w. every 24 hours, intramuscular or subQ (not for you)
10 – 20 mg/kg b.w. every 24 hours, orally
37 – 150 mg/liter every 24 hours, in drinking water

What I do to weigh birds is: I take the bird in a box to a pet shop (usually they'll have a scale to weigh treats and food), I ask to weigh the bird with the box, then pick up the bird, and weigh the box. Then you do the math.


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

thank you both! I actually found a little food scale in my pantry so I'll be using that! Thank you for the link, I'm going to try again tonight, but he really gets angry after around 4 cc's! you can actually see it in his face that he's annoyed lol For water I also use the syringe, he has very poor depth perception plus one eye is really screwed up, so he cant eat or drink on his own. I try to give him 12 cc's of water a day, sometimes more if he'll let me. 
I was giving him the baby formula because they kind I bought has tonsss of vitamins and probiotics in it, it also has digestive enzymes and DHA's, just lots of good stuff and I figured since he was so weak when we found him, anything that said it makes birds gain weight and get strong was good. However, I can tell he's sick of it lol, I think I'll try giving him some pea puree as a snack. He really cant grab anything himself, the poor thing.
I'm waiting for a call back from nycprc, but so far so good. Today he looked even better! I'm hoping to get that baytril really soon, I dont know how long All Bird Products Inc. takes to ship. Thank you all for your help, you really made such a difficult time for me much easier


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi.

Also you can try searching for a Yahoo group of NYC pigeon lovers...there may be one. I am very surprised that they haven't replied...hmmm.....a while back they'd get back to you immediately.

If the syringe-feeding is really a pain in the #ss....try getting some frozen peas. Thaw them under hot tap water and let them cool to lukewarm (making sure the insides aren't still frozen) and then, holding the pigeon in one arm, gently pry open his/her mouth with the other hand and 'pop' one pea into the mouth; then close the beak. 

He/she should swallow automatically. If he doesn't, he will begin shaking his head, in which case just open the beak and let it fall out. But 90% of the time, they will swallow.

You can then do about 40 pieces a day, broken up into 4 feedings. For the first couple of feedings I only try 7 or 8 pieces, then ramp it up once they have the gist of what's goin' on.


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

There is this group in Facebook. http://nycprc.org/HelpWanted/Help.html The New York City Pigeon Rescue Central, I'm sure they will help you and if you have Facebook you can always join the group.

Ivette


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## runlizzyrun (Dec 5, 2010)

Thank you guys, I'm trying the peas tonight for his dinner. I hope it works! I bought a larger syringe for him, he's eating now around 24 cc's of formula a day, which is up from 12-16 cc's. No weight loss. He still has a very poor appetite. But he's drinking a good amount of water and is becoming very active. He desperately wants to fly. My riend suggested I call 311 next and just find out if there are any wildlife sanctuaries that wont kill him. In the meantime, the baytril will be here in three days. He's developed more boils on his wings which has me worried the disease is progressing, plus his droppings are bright green, though still not too loose. I'm really doing everything I can at this point  I don't think he will die from this, but I'm scared about permanent neurological damage. 
Oh, but his eye looks so much better! its not bloody or weepy, just swollen. I'm still applying triple antibiotic to it. I'm also cleaning his crate very well so that droppings dont get into his eye when he puts his head down.


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