# very small mini Red Baby Pigeon, emergency please!



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

Hello I live in San Juan, Puerto Rico and 2 days ago I found a tiny mini Baby Red Pigeon, 1st thing I did was get a towel and shape it into a nest as much as I could and made a small space in the center for it and placed it inside, it quickly cuddle up against the towel pushing deeper into it. Everytime I get close to it or I put my hand or a object (camera) close to it it expands its little Red feathered wings, it gives me the impression that it's trying to pretend to be bigger than it really is (self-defense?)(scared?).

The 1st day it didnt want any food from my hand, but on the second day I dipped my hand into a glass of water so that a drop was on the tip of my finger almost about to fall but not quite and I put my finger close to it's beak and the baby pigeon startedsoftly pecking my finger tip and drank all the water, it drank about 5 drops and it drank ALL no water fell on it or on the towl it sucked it all in. I tried giving it baby food (Gerber Corn in little glass jar) same way as I gave it water and it actually ate some, but it didn't eat much and I'm starting to get worried that it will die soon.

I want to make sure that this type of pigeon can eat this and I need a more efficient way to feed it to make sure it eats what it needs to survive, where can I buy a tiny(TINY) syringe the ones to feed babies?

I have Love Birds but this pigeon is very light weight and it looks to be very young and wont eat seeds.

(((7-26-05 Edit: I took the pictures out of this message to put some more in another message)))


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hello and welcome to Pigeon-Talk! Thank you for helping this beautiful young bird. I'm not familiar with the species but am asking on another list for diet advice.

For right now the water is very important, and unless this is some type of fruit eating columbiform, I'd think that mixing up some human baby cereal with warm water and feeding that would work until we know more. 

See this thread for ways of feeding the baby:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

When you say "Red Pigeon" is this actually the name of a native species of pigeon or are you just referring to the color? 

Terry


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi There, 

This looks like some species of dove but I'm unfamiliar with South American species. We have another member here from Puerto Rico and perhaps he might be able to be of some assistance. Here is the link to his profile, try e-mailing him.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=3636


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

I refer to the "color" when I said Red Pigeon, I don't know much about pigeons I'm trying to find the scientific name for it to do better research. I see them in my yard eating seeds or worms off the yard, I have seen them in 2 sizes everyday, There are miniature ones and I see bigger ones with the same color. The mini ones come often and look like they're reddish-brown and only when they open their wings to take flight is when you see the red feathers. When I picked up this baby it was very close to the street and I was afraid it would get ran over or eaten by cats (there are many cats roaming around here), I'm guessing it's one pf the miniature pigeon's babies because a mini red pigeon followed me as I picked up the baby, I think it was it's mother or father. I tried looking for a nest to put it back up but found none so I decided to try my best to keep it alive and raise it for a few weeks until it can fly strong enough to take care of itself.


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

I'll try to do the ballon method tomorrow, but this pigeon is very very tiny and weighs less than a quarter literally, I'm going to see if I can find a appropiate size syringe to do this.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Zenku,



Wow...!

Interesting little Columbiforme of some kind..!

This looks like a mid-adolescent who will likely not know how to eat by themselves yet, since normaly, their parents feed them near the Nest area untill they are decent enough fliers to fly with their parents to graze wherever there are Seeds or other things they may wish to eat, where, over the course of these forays, the youngsters with their new flying skills, begin to learn from their elders the manner of pecking and self feeding.

What do their poops look like so far?



If you like, there are some handy tips which should apply to any Doves or Pigeons of this age, here in the following thread -

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11244

Read all the entries since there is more info forther down.


Let us know how it is going?

Keep the Bird safe from any drafts or air conditioning...and keep them someplace warm, and quiet and with no dogs or cats to approach them in their cage.

Good luck!


The 'Wing' display is likely something of their manner of asking to be fed, or, trying to balance from weakness even...hard to say for sure without seeing them do it.

It is normal for them to 'squeak', or 'peep', and to pump their shoulders or even flap their Wings when being fed, or, in anticipations of it...

They can be quite enthusiatic eaters...and when comfortable with it, will be quite demanding and assertive and happy about it!


Good luck!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

some locals have told me that this type of pigeon or dove "paloma" are very fragile and usually die when you try to take them in, if that is true all I want is for the bird to grow strong enough to fly on it's own like it would in nature, I would love to keep it and take care of it but I only want what is best for him/her.


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

he's peeping right now and it's 10:52pm do you think it's hungry because I can't feed it right? I'm so worried it's going to die on me, right now I have it in a LoveBird cage with a Towel on the floor for him. I leave him in a quiet room and try to not interact with him unless feeding him because locals told me they are a "nervous twitchy" bird when adult atleast. Maybe since it's so baby perhaps it doesnt know any better yet and can be tamed not to fear me? I hope so, least thing I want is a baby getting a heart attack.  

I think I'm going to try to give it more food, it's peeping. Could it be dreaming?


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know--is it a loud peep or a soft peep? It's very hard to know how to take care of a bird when you don't know what it is. Does it "gape" for food (open its mouth wide when you get near) or does it always have its mouth closed when you approach?

Have you tried searching on google with the words "puerto rico bird species red"?

Pidgey


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

it's a soft peep but when I get close with dropper filled with baby food (gerber corn) to give it food it keeps mouth close. So I just opened it's beek with my finger nail and dropped some food in the back of its mouth and gave it a rest then when he looked done moving his beek like (tasting food) I went and gave it more.. I did it like 4 times, my mother said it should have a pouch under it's neck in the front that should feel filled sorta like a hamsters pouch? Is that true because I don't think she knows about pigeons and I don't want it to die of starvation but also not choke it with food.

I cleaned off the food on his face and chest and put it back in the "towel nest" but it started peeping a few minutes ago. Gives me the impression that it misses it's mom for some reason, that's just my gut feeling.. dunno.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might try going to this website:

http://www.kingsnake.com/westindian/

You can scroll down on the left to almost the bottom and it'll give you a bird selection. I can't load it very fast because I'm on dial-up but if you've got broadband you might be able to see it a lot quicker. If you can find a true name for the bird, you might be able to run an internet search for emergency feeding procedures.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Zenku,


If you can, post a few more images showing close ups of it's profile and face.

I at first thought this was a sort of Dove, but I may have been projecting...! Lol...

Get us some close ups, and we can likely tell if it is some order of Columbiforme or not, which will be important for feeding considerations in several ways...


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good find Pidgey .. two possibles from that site are Key West Quail Dove and Bridled Quail Dove .. both appear to have reddish/rusty plumage.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Zenku, 


Please consider the link I refered you to above.

Dropping liquids into the back of this Bird's throat can all too easily go into their airways and eventuate heart wrending and protracted spasms as it spend the next couple hours dieing.

This is rather a small Bird, and if in fact a juvenile or adolescent, it will wish to insert it's Beak "into" something for being fed.

Please consider this...

If this is an older Bird who from illness or injury was grounded, it's manner if eating will be either pecking at it's own descretion, or it will have to be fed in some manner which will not endanger it's life from accident of liquids getting into it's air-ways.

If you will consider to make friends with it in terms it may understand, it may elect to eat, willingly, in the manner my link informs about, which occasions no dangers for asphyxiation.

The light electrolytes in tepid Water initially, in the Nipple as a sort of cup, is a very nice 'ice breaker' for getting along with them.

Prying open their Beak to put food or liquid in there is a trust killer and a stresser for them, and should be only the resort if all else fails, and should not be done with liquids, but with small whole Seeds or other dry foods only.

I have never had any sort of Dove of any age, who would not gently drink from the Nipple or a small Bowl, as long as I was slow, gentle, patient and kind to them, and had the water 'luke warm'...and, importantly, did the other things mentioned in the thread I posted the link to.

Doves are fragil in their way, and very sensitive to things they feel are stressful or threatening.

Be as gentle and quiet as you can..and slow moveing in your dealings with them.

And please reconsider your method of feeding them.

If they 'peep' or quietly 'squeak' and it is midnight or two in the morning...feed them, they are hungry, and for now, that matters more than what time it is.

Gaining their trust and putting them at ease, also matters very much, and if they are willing to be fed, and you can be deferential to them, and do in fact feed them in a way they are comfortable and familiar with, you both will have made it over the first serious hurdle.

At any rate, we are proceeding on the supposition that this is some order of Dove, and not a Song Bird.

My initial impression was that of 'Small, Adolescent Dove' and untill closer images may ba made and posted, that will have to stand...!

Good luck to you both...  

All my best wishes...!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

this is how the mother or father looked like, same thing just smaller, the link below is the big ones I was talking about, I don't know if the small ones are just adolescents or mini's but if they are just adolescents then there are a lot around here.

http://www.kingsnake.com/westindian/zenaidaaurita1.JPG

Zenaida aurita - I'll look for that in Google

This is a quote about this type of dove:
"Zenaida doves are one of the most common species of their order in Antillean urban areas.

They are frequently seen in mixed flocks with some of their relatives, like ground doves, white-wings, and

rock pigeons, as they look for seeds and food scraps left behind by humans in parks and city streets.

Its call is very similar to that of the mourning dove."


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

In my 1st 2 posts I put 6 images... and yes I won't force any food anymore I was getting worried. Tomorrow I'll offer it from the tip of a tiny cup or dripping from my finger, if it is still alive. It does drink from my finger tip the drops but very little, it also eats very little from my finger tip, do you think that will keep him the dove alive? I try my best to move slowly so it won't get freightened.

I'm going to go to a bird/parrot breeder tomorrow and ask him, he is the one who sold me love birds, he should be able to help me he knows alot more.

damn, I'm worried about what you said, about him dying slowly from water or food getting in his airways... I'll give update tomorrow morning.. well in 4 hours


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Xenku,


Please, take the few minutes necessary to read the (not very many) posts I have made in the thread this link takes you to.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11244

This is a good primer and instructional for the initial gestures and care which will make any situation like yours ever so much easier, safer and more happy... for you, and for the little Dove Bird.  

Now, once again please...what to the poops look like? and are there any poops to describe?

I know you already posted your initial images.

The request for additional images are for "close ups" of it's face in profile which will allow those of experience to better guess the approximate age of this Dove.

Also an image which might show clearly, the size or length of it's Wings might help.

This has some bearing on the situation in several ways which can matter.

If this is a young adult, and you caught it like you did, it is likely ill and will need medical attention. 

This might also have importance on it's ability to swallow or to eat.

If a youngish to medium adolescent, it m-i-g-h-t have been on the ground for you to get it, because it got seperated from it's parents, was not fed for a few days, and is starving...etc...and has become ill from privation weakening it, this also can be important.

Does it's little butt have any poop-messy Feathers on it? Is there any odor there? Or color of poop on the butt Feathers?

Is there any odor to the Bird, say, if you bury your nose into it's back feathers?

These are real questions, important to your Bird, and they have time value.


Wishing you both all my best!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

Here are some more pictures but they're not so good except 1 is clear.

I took these after I fed him from the tip of a little cup, he ate some and now seems to be sleeping again, he sleeps alot except when I come and he see's the food he get very vivid and walks around some with his tail high and clumsy like a human todler trying to walk for 1st time 

I tried uploading a picture but this picture is 466KB big and my limit is 100KB


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Xenku,

That's good news that the youngster has eaten for you. If you will e-mail me the picture to [email protected] I will put it up on my site for you.
I have your other pictures at http://www.rims.net/RedPigeon. I put them up so people on other lists could see them in order to try to identify the species.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Xenku,


Good to hear...!


Have you noticed them preening at all? When they run their Beak through their Feathers? It is a good sign when they do...it shows they are feeling better.

What are you feeding them?


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

Yes it has been preening everytime I feed it, during it eats and after eating. Then I put it back in the cage and he goes a looks for a comfortable spot like a lump or little cave in the towel to cuddle and sleep  I will send the picture to [email protected] . Question.. what color should it's droppings/poop be?

I sent the e-mail to TAWhatley


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

I'm feeding it Gerber Baby Food the ones that are made already in glass little jars.. specifically the flavor of (Corn) and (Mixed Vegetables).. I'm trying to look for a place where I can buy some special food for it that won't choke it or have those problems that the food clumps up in their body and they suffer, I don't want that and it seems that this food he likes. When I put down the little glass cup (like a whiskey shot glass) with baby food in it he goes running clumsy like towards it and starts nibbling on it because he sees whats inside, to feed him I do 2 things I tip the cup and let him stick his beek/face inside and gobble up or I use a common soft-drink straw and dip it in the cup and hold the other end with my finger so it wont come out and he aggressively stuffs his face inside and opens his mouth.

is there a place online where I could buy food that wont clump and syringe's just the pump part without the needle?


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

New photos are up at http://www.rims.net/RedPigeon

A local pet store would probably have syringes available, and there are lots of places to purchase them on-line. The pet store may also have Kaytee Exact or another brand of baby bird formula (powder that you mix with warm water).

The poops should be well formed and brownish with a dollop of white.

Terry


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

I will e-mail you additional pictures from my cell-phone to show you how I feed and what it looks like while eating..


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

The new pictures are now up .. feeding equipment and method and additional pics of the baby. http://www.rims.net/RedPigeon

Terry


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

I can only see the 1st pictures not the recent ones.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hit the refresh button in your browser when you are on the RedPigeon page .. you should be getting 15 pictures now.

It looks like you and the little one are getting things nicely figured out .. very well done!

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Zenku,


The link I refered you to also has a general recipe well suited to your Dove.

Your Bird will not do well on 'gerbers' and in effect will starve.

The several days now of it not getting any real nutrition are a shame, when it could have been being fed foods that would benifit it.

I think I will no longer bother trying to refer anyone to any links since they almost never read the information in them.

Your Bird needs to be eating Seeds, and or formula which is suited to them which at their age, certainly may contain small whole Seeds.

This Bird is plenty old enough to be eating on it's own for that matter, to be pecking Seeds effectively, if guided to do so in terms that it wil understand.

If you want, I will be happy to compose some guidance for you, but I am not going to bother trying to offer it unless you tell me for sure you, in advance, that will read it and follow it.

If you think this sounds grumpy, the half hour or so I already spent in your thread, I could have gotten other things done...!

You have one Bird, I am dealing with ten.

The other mentors here likewise have lots else to do.


Please, try and make better use of our interest to help you?



...big sigh...


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

then just give me a web-site where I can order food, Or can I give it the seeds that my Love Birds have been eating for years? No place around here to buy the stuff that were in your guides, this little pigeon recently ate some bread I gave it. There is a lady that feeds bread to the pigeons everyday and they are alive and keep commin for more. But if I can get specific seeds or grit that are sold online I will order to give him a healthier meal.

I appreciate it but I do what I can with my resources, I have read some of your guides and try my best.


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

Here are 2 pictures of a plant we got in our backyard hanging from a little roof and it seems that the same type of dove that I have here are using the plant to make their nest and lay their eggs on.

So I guess this is what my dove's eggs look like.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Xenku,

If you could pick out the larger seeds from your lovebird mix and offer the remaining smaller seeds to the baby, that would be fine. Or, just get some smallish seed like finch, canary, or parakeet to start the baby on. I wouldn't let the little one try to handle sunflower seeds, for example, just yet. If you still need to supplement with formula, please try some Gerber or other brand of human baby cereal. Mix it with warm water and away you go. I had a friend on another list suggest that masa might be readily available and that you could cook up a thinnish mix of this for the youngster.

We do realize that it may be difficult for you to obtain some of the suggested foods, so just do the best you can with what's available. If you do have any of the big chain stores like Petsmart or Petco, they will have either Kaytee Exact or another brand name of baby bird formula (like Lefeber, L&M, or perhaps Roudybush). Ordering on-line from Petsmart would take far too long .. their site notes 2-3 weeks shipping time to Puerto Rico. Also, if you have a place that sells food for chickens, you may be able to get non-medicated  game bird starter, turkey starter, or chick starter that could be soaked in water and fed to the baby. I do believe that some of our U.K. members use chick starter quite successfully with their baby doves and pigeons.

Please do keep us posted and continued good luck with your baby. The photos caused quite a stir on the doves-pigeon list as the folks there are totally into doves .. the more exotic, the better for them!

Terry


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

thanks, I'll look into the chicken starter. I think that will be available


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

HI Xenku,



Okay...


Now...even though if might be a little late to try, as far as having already set up certain contradictory expectations in the Bird...

Try this - 

Go to the Grocery Store and buy some regular Baby Nipples.

Take one and with scizzors, cut off the flange or collar.

You will be useing the hollow side of it to put formula or Water in.

Any formula you feed them should be fairly thin, since they are in essense, drinking it more than eating it. 

Small whole Seeds may be added to varying percentages to the otherwise 'gravy' of the formula.

Individual Birds, Doves especially, can be a little finicky, so, expect to try different formulass and or percentages of small whole Seeds untill you hit on a combo or recipe they go for.

The formula must be fed to them at around "wrist" temperature, ALLWAYS.

Make your formula in a cup which is sitting in a pan on of Hot Water. Keep it sitting in the pan of hot Water so it does not cool off while you refill the Nipple.

Test the formula by putting your finger into it and stirring. it should feel like 'no temperature'.

Also, get a small sized to-go-cup or Dixie-cup and cut off about 3/4 inch or 1 inch at most of the bottom to make a small, shallow Seed-feeding cup.


Moisten your finger tips in warm Water...

Approach the little Bird from straight on from the front, at about their eye level. Set them ON something even to do so, something where they have room and will not be precarious.

Slowly reach for their Beak while saying 'OooOOOooo! - OooooOOooo!' in a medium, slow, lowish voice. Kinda like if you were saying 'MmmmMMMmm!' to convey how something tastes good, but where the 'MmmmMMmmm' would have your mouth closed, the 'OooooOOOooo!' is done with one's mouth, one's lips, made into a little "o"...

Do this and gently, from the front, with moist warm finger tips, massage it's little Beak.


If the Bird "nuzzles" and or responds with signs of accepting your invitation to feed them...gently guide their Beak into the hollow BACKSIDE of the Nipple, into which you have put, say, for the first experiment, merely some TEPID Water.

Hold the Nipple at abouttheir Crop level and tilted toward them. Let the Bird guide you as for how they wish to pull their head 'in' for swallowing, and how they may stretch their neck 'out' for gobbleing or drinking. There is a cadence they will prefer and it is subtle,m so you have to let them guide you in how it works.

If you can get the Bird to be "nuzzleing" in this way, you can feed them IN the hollow back side of the Nipple, with various sorts of thin, 'Gravy' thin formula recipies.

YOU CAN ALSO gently guide their Beak into a small container, in this case, something LIKE a 'Shot Glass' or the bottom of a small size to-go Cup you have cut out from the whole to-go cup.

Gently, keeping your finger tips ON their little Beak, guide their 'nuzzleing' Beak into the little cup or glass which you have filled with PLAIN, WHOLE, SMALL, SEEDS...

The Baby or young Doves I have done this with so far, made 'gobbleing' - 'feeding' motions with their Beaks, and in effect, by opening and closeing their Beaks, ate very well the little whole Seeds in the small glass or cup bottom, into which I had guided their Beak...and on whose little Beaks I keep my finger tips gently resting untill they DO do this with out me doing so.

For the first few times of this, one keeps one's finger tips ON their little Beak.

One also ALLWAYS from the first, ANY TIME ONE IS TO OFFER FOOD OR WATER, one makes the "OoooooOOOOoooo!" sounds.

The moist finger tip Beak massage need only be done the first time. THAT IS THE INITIAL INVITATION, that is the 'Curtain Raiser' and that is why I wanted you to do it back when when I first referenced the link to it.

If all of this is not done, and done in an easy sensitive sequence for them, we get all the problems that almost everyone writes in with every day.

all these damned force feeds and problems and admonishions of how the Bird needs 'Tough Love' because no 'Love' has been shown them in any real terns THEY understand or will do well with.

I do not care of Dove parents make sounds other than or "quieter" than those which Pigeons do, this works just as well FOR Baby or young Doves as it does for Baby or young Pigeons, who very soon know what you are 'talking' about when you make the sounds for them. Who in fact after the FIRST time one does this and does it right, they know what you are 'saying'.

Mine (Baby or young Doves) tended to come running when I would announce the arrival of 'chow time' by these sounds.

This then, the little 'Seed Gobble' which they WILL do in a 1 inch or so little cup of SMALL WHOLE SEEDS, if guided to it gently and correctly, especially with a Dove as old as yours is...it will very soon, VERY soon, lead naturally and easily and effortlessly, to them pecking and eating Seeds ALL BY THEMSELVES out of the same little 
cup or off of a folded Towell ( A folded towell lets them peck 'deeper' around the Seed to get a grip on it, than a flat hard surface will).

You can also 'peck' with them of course with your crook'd index finger. Have the back of your hand or your knuckles against them when doing this.

Now, part of what is crucial here, aside form doing these things right, and gently, and slowly, and in ways that defer TO the3 Bird, is to GET THEM SOME SEEDS so that they and you can do these proceedures!

Lol...( Not yelling, just being emphatic...)  


Most Grocery Stores for that matter carry Canary Seed, Parakeet Seed and so on. Get the Seeds when you go there to get the Nipples.

Go to the Grocery Store and get some.

Doves, young Doves will prefer 'small' sized Seeds.

Good luck!


Sorry I was m.i.a. there a while, I had some computer problems...


Best wishes!  


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Xenku (Jul 25, 2005)

Thank you pdpbison and TAWhatley your posts have been very useful


----------

