# Pigeons going away and not coming back



## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

Ok, here's my problem...

I've been raising pigeons for 4 years now and I'm stilling losing pigeons from loft flying and training... I've live near the City of Milwaukee, WI and there are at least 5 people that raising pigeons around my area...And there are hawks by the way...

For young birds, when they are 2-3 months at least, I try to let them get use to the surrounding in my backyard but I don't let them out due to hawks. On the other hand, I made a opening for them to coming out and in to see the surround and let them get use to it for another month or so. Then I'll try to let them loft fly. Also, I've taught them how to trap as well. So here's the problem, when I let my young birds loft fly, I be lucky to get at least 2-3 out of the 10 birds back and rest will fly with some wild birds and won't come back or due to hawks. But before I let my young birds out, I will give them a bit of pigeons feed (just a bit) so that they will know that there's food in the loft. Another thing is that I loft my birds in the morning. What am I doing wrong?

As for the old birds, some have never flown beside being a prisoner but they do get the chance to see the surround. They been in the loft for at least a year now with no training skills or what not. So is it possible and a way I can train them because they are key breeders or should they just let them stay as a prisoner?


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Well 3-4 months seems strong the wing to be out for the first time I would think they would need to be much younger, and one shouldn't give them any feed at all before their first time out. But wait for the others to come on here and better explain how to train them.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

3 or4 months is a bit old but the first few times I let my young birds out is in the evening hour and a half befor dark. It seems like when they have all day is when they roam to much and end up lost.
Dave


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

I make sure that the young birds will know their sorrounding by settling cage, once I know they know how to go in and out of the loft, and responding well to my call and before they loss their squeking voice I let them out. 3 to 4 months is too old already and too strong in the wing and if you have a lot of wild pigeons in your area you are doom to lose young birds, never let them out in the morning, and keeping them hungry will also help. I also use to breed very early but it does me no good because the hawks are still around until March, so this year I will pair them up around January so by March there should be no Hawks around. Wetting the wings will also help your young birds not to fly right away. Hope this help.


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## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

Ok. Thanks but what if they are too hungry and decides to wonder off to find their own food to eat because this has happened to me since I've started raising racing pigeons as well...and what is the best month to train your young birds so that they will know their surrounding even if there's hawks and wild pigeons?


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

They won't wander off in search of food... you and the food dish are the only places they know to get food from.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

yang_fla0vr said:


> Ok. Thanks but what if they are too hungry and decides to wonder off to find their own food to eat because this has happened to me since I've started raising racing pigeons as well...and what is the best month to train your young birds so that they will know their surrounding even if there's hawks and wild pigeons?


The loft should be the only place for your birds to get water and feed, if you are going to feed your birds and they don't rush to eat you are feeding too much. There is no best month it's your prorogative when you want to breed your breeders, a lot of fancier put their breeders together after thanksgiving, as I said before I used to do it but, since the bands don't come in soon enough I end up miss banding birds and because we have a lot of Hawks I can't fly them until around March, so this year I will start breeding around January, so when the young are 25 to 28 days old I can separate them and start weaning them, I'm hoping by mid March I should be able to loft break them once they know how to follow my command, consistency is the key, a lot of reading and internet searching will also help.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

How many birds do you have in your loft?..I have read before one cause of fly offs is due to over crowding. 

I know the common agreed upon minimum space for birds is 2 square feet with 1 1/2 perches per bird. 

After hearing all the stories of lost birds I have the suspicion maybe 3 square feet per bird is more optimal. 

Usually people that loose a large number of ybs end up having their best years racing with the birds they have left. This points to the idea that over crowding stresses the young birds and causes them to fly off to find a new flock. Leaving the ones that return to claim thier territory.

You said this has happened for 4 years..instead of 16 birds per 8'x4' of floor space try just 12 ybs and see if this doesn't solve this problem.

This is just my idea and I am probably in the minority. I know many people keep more then just 12 birds in a 8x4 loft. I haven't raced yet but I will in a few months for 2011 old bird season and this is just my plan. 

So before some hater pops up dismissing my idea I will put into this context. I am still new to the sport but everything I have studied on the subject leads me to believe that over crowding not only stresses the birds but cost you more to keep your birds healthy.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Sounds like they are too strong on the wing. You should loose less to hawks than to fly aways I would think if you just start them younger. Stay out with them and keep them hungry, where you can get them in fast. A few guys use geese decoys in the yard to keep hawks away. Even saw a guy with a pet crow.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

well, let me say my first round is hatching as we post on here, and they will not start loft flying until after old bird season is over, at the end of April, at this time the Hawks are going,as long as they have access to the Aviary for all this time. I hardly every lose any if I do its because they don't have what it takes. Good birds will come right back to there loft with out any problems. I raise a small team every year a total of 30 to 35 in a loft 6x14 witch I think any more birds then this is to many.


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## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, since I sold some of my birds and kept the best of the best for this year, I have 14 birds left but since I loft fly them like 3 days ago... I just lost a female XD due to hawk or fright from the hawk...I have no clue because during that time I went to fix me a lunch...Also, during that time, I was with them while they were loft flying but when I came back out there was a copper hawk on the tree right next to my loft and when it saw me it flew away...It didn't grab any of my birds because they came back inside the loft but 2 was missing and yesterday my male just came back but not the female...Right now in Milwaukee, WI it's winter. Also, I just wanted them to get some fresh air because they were in the loft for almost a month and a half...So right now I have 13 birds left...Not sure if the female will return or probably got eaten by a hawk...


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## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

By the way, does the decoys actually work because if it does I'm going to buy one because I live near the city and there I know that there's a lot of hawks due to a crap load of wild pigeons and lost racing pigeons.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

yang_fla0vr said:


> By the way, does the decoys actually work because if it does I'm going to buy one because I live near the city and there I know that there's a lot of hawks due to a crap load of wild pigeons and lost racing pigeons.


I read it in an article I think in Pigeon Digest. Do not know for a fact. Try it and see.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Yang,this is what I do with my YB`s....There are hawks everywhere,so you can`t get away from them...You will have to "learn" their hunting "time" in your area....Over the last 3 years,10am to 10:30am is the worst time for me to let my YB`s out to fly...Why,because everytime I saw a hawk,I wrote the time down...It is amazing !! how many times @ allmost 10:15am,there was a hawk circling around...Now,lets get down to the YB`s.....At 23/24 days of age,I would put them on the landing board,and show them how to trap in...At this point,they can`t fly,and that is what I want...I just want them to learn to trap....I also let them sit out there,for about 30 minutes to 1 hr each day...And beleive me,I am sitting right in front of them,because I want to protect them from you know what...After 3 or 4 days,they are relaxed out on the board,and they know how to trap in...I put them back with their parents after the 1 hr board training ofcourse...They learn about what`s around the loft area,and that`s important...Once I wean them,they will fly out on the landing board,but now,there will be a flight cage to protect them...I put out a bath pan,and let them take a bath...A few days later,I do the same thing,only once they are all WET,from the bath,I take the flight cage away..Now they are on their own...I am right there with my broom,and a few tennis balls...The tennis balls are for throwning at a hawk,if he attacks...It has saved me a few YB`s..I can throw a ball alot faster then I can run...I hit a hawk one day who had a YB down on the roof,and he let it go real fast,when the ball hit him...Do whatever it takes to scare the hawks away...I used to fly remote controlled airplanes...And I allways wanted to do that and fly after a hawk,and scare the **** out of him.....Alamo


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## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

Thank you Alamo...The information you give me will help me for sure no doubt...lol...I would too use a remote controlled airplanes as well but they are expersive though...As for the tennis ball, I can't use them because I'm afraid I may damage a neighbor's window or mine...But I can use a broom though...


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

yang_fla0vr said:


> By the way, does the decoys actually work because if it does I'm going to buy one because I live near the city and there I know that there's a lot of hawks due to a crap load of wild pigeons and lost racing pigeons.


Any decoy or deterrent you use will work temporarily, eventually the hawks will get use to it and realize that it doesn't harm him, specially if you keep it expose all the time. I also read about this article and the author suggest that you only use the decoy (Canadian Geese) when the birds are out, and you need to move them around, so the hawk will really think their real. Learning when the hawk is active and their hunting time is the best thing to do, letting your birds out on a schedule is no good because the hawk will learn what time your birds go out, and he will be there waiting for them. Never let your birds out before and after a rain, this is the time where there is no prey for the hawk to hunt so it will hunt the easiest which are your birds that are flying. Falcon you can't do anything about it they will take your birds in the air no matter how fast they are, the cooper hawk is a very persistent hunter, never let your birds loft fly when it is close to sunset, the cooper hawk will post anywhere and sometime fly around to keep you birds flying until it's hard for them to see, and when your birds don't have a choice but to land, this is when the Cooper hawk will strike the moment the birds land. Hope this help.


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## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

WoW...Thank you for the infor...I've never thought copper hawks and falcon would do that because before I let my old birds out, it was an hour before sunset and they were flying while after I'd left to grab a lunch/snack in my house and when I cme back out of the house...a Copper Hawk was on a tree right next to my loft...That's how I am still missing my female pigeon...


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