# lethargic bird, life span ?



## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi everyone. My "Bigboy" wouldn't fly down from his nest and greet me this morning. He was fine yesterday. He is a bit weak and not flying around in his coop as he always does. I reached up and set him down where his food and water is and he wouldn't eat as he always did. I'm very concerned. I hand raised him 4 years ago. Is this the end of our journey ? I am saddened. Should I get a light bulb for some heat ? What can I do. He was a solitary pet.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he needs to see the vet, as something does seem wrong with him. pigeons can live if healthy 10, 15 years, sometimes in their to their 20's... oldest I have heard 30 something.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I kept 2 cock pigeons 20 years


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yes, give him a heat lamp, that way he won't use up essential energy trying to keep warm. Try to make certain that he has something to drink, you don't want him to get dehydrated.

I also treat them for cocci and worms if they go lethargic, and give them probiotics. The vet told me that cocci and worms can take hold when a pigeon is under the weather. I am not saying that these are what are causing his problems, just that they often make matters worse.


Can you check his poops and also the inside of his mouth?

Are you certain that he is male?

Cynthia


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

His poops have been a little loose lately, but not runny and watery. The owner at the feed said if I have never given him grit,which he has never had, to do so. He's lived in my basement all his life, it may be damp but not cold, as it is heated. He has never come into contact with another animal, only me.
Would it hurt to put him on probotics, and or, some vitamin ??????? Thank you all so much for the quick responses.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

He is definitely a male. What should the inside of his mouth be like ????


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The mouth should be clean and pink...no white dots, cheesy growths or blue tinge to the tissues.

Cynthia


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

His mouth is nice and pink, and he is cooing, just not perky.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

does he have access to diret sunlight? ... Pet Birds Need Exposure to Natural Sunlight ... Just as humans do, birds need vitamin D to aid in nutrient absorption. not sure if that is what is wrong with him, but he needs direct sunlight to bask in anyway, and in a basement that is hard to do, unless it is a walk out basement. he still should go to the vet to get a fecal check and exam.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> He's lived in my basement all his life, it may be damp but not cold, as it is heated


As Spirit Wings says, he needs sunlight and vitamin D3...also, damp is not good for pigeons and doves.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Dovetail,

I am sorry to hear your "Bigboy" is not feeling well.

You have received some good suggestions, and supplementing with multiple vitamins that contain D3, for an indoor bird, from time to time, is a good idea.

I have a little feeling though, that it may be more than a lack of vitamins going on, as suggested by the nature of the more or less sudden on set and usually when they are not getting a balanced diet, they start to look "ratty" looking well before they loose their ability and desire to fly. Plus, I do not like the sound of the "loose" droppings you mention.

A vet would be your best bet, but on the chance this is not possible I would start Bigboy the med linked below, and see how he responds. The active drug in the medicine will treat for a possible coccidiosis infection mentioned in another post if present, plus a good number of other infections our birds can come down with. It is available at many pet stores, call around, it is meant to replace his water as his daily source of fluids. 

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=809

If he is not drinking well, get a small syringe or eyedropper and administer a few drops at a time to the side of his beak, unless you know how to medicate by tube, if you do, give him 5ml, 5-6 times a day, and leave his regular water in for him. With using a syringe/eyedropper it is going to take some time to get him dosed doing it this way, but it can be done if you find he is not drinking enough. The goal with the concentration that the active drug in this med is at, is to get about 1 once of this med each day into him, so you will have to monitor his fluids well to ensure this.

Good luck with him ans keep us informed,

Karyn


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

He has never gotten sunlight. He has gotten a bit perkier, prancing and cooing, but not flying around like usual. I just came back from the feed store and the owner emphatically stated that he needs grit. I feed him a wild feed that contains whole kernels of corn and whole peas. Which he RARELY eats his corn and peas. The owner said that like children, they will always prefer the candy. I spread some grit on the floor and he just ignores it. I suppose he will peck at it. He now has heat, and tomorrow I will start putting him outside in a cage for sunlight and fresh air( what's fresh about the inner city ?) I will also get what you say and moniter his water consumption. He has always drank his water. Thank you, thank you, thank you, all.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

He is not ratty looking, on the contrary he is quite a handsome speciman. He was great yesterday. I was thinking of holding off on the antibiotics as of yet. Perhaps some vitamin tonight ?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

dovetail said:


> He is not ratty looking, on the contrary he is quite a handsome speciman. He was great yesterday. I was thinking of holding off on the antibiotics as of yet. Perhaps some vitamin tonight ?


Dovetail, now that you mention that he is in apparent good condition, I can only tell you what I would do, and that would be to start my bird on a course of the med (or one very similar) I mentioned. Sudden loss of flight desire and on set of loose droppings, as I said, are not good indications and more than I think a dose of vitamins may fix. The active drug in this medicine, Sulfadimethoxine, is a very safe and well tolerated drug, I usually err on the side of caution, and in this case it would be to medicate or have a vet have a look ASAP.

Karyn


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Sorry to hear he's not feeling well. It would be best NOT to start putting him outside at all until he is back to normal. Sudden exposure to sun light is not going to "fix" him, unfortunately.  That's not what's wrong with him for him to suddenly get sick like you described. 

Get some Raw Apple Cider Vinegar--they'll have it at health food stores if you can't find it at your regular grocery store. Give him a capful of that in his water bowl; that will help him feel better. Do this every day for awhile. Can you bring him into a regular bedroom where it isn't damp until he is normal? Keep a heating pad on for him (on low with a towel over it) or if still using the heat lamp make sure he can move away from it if he's too warm. 

Damp breeds disease and is hard on pigeons. They really need a dry environment even more so than most animals, it seems. The best thing would be to get him to a vet and have them do a fecal. You could even just bring in some of his poop and have them test that if they will. It can tell you a lot. Hopefully with some extra TLC and warmth and Raw AVC he will respond and get better. 

Like you said, he will start eating the grit sooner or later. AFTER he is back to normal health, you can start giving him a scoop of his food and leaving it until it is almost all gone. Then give him more. My indoor pigeons (as well as my more disabled outdoor pigeons) have access to food all day. 

I would measure what he's eating now, and keep a close eye on his weight, and if possible I would weigh him daily. They can lose weight rapidly which is bad. If this happens you will need to feed him to keep his weight up which it sounds like you know how to do! Hopefully it won't need to be done. Keep us posted. Others will have more to add.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Dovetail, you have been given some great advise from our membership. I first thought of the lack of sunshine at the beginning of your thread. Warmth and sunshine very key elements in a happy healty bird. You should be able to readily find the grey calcium grit at most pet shops and even some of the better grocery stores. Pleae provide a separate dish for it to get grit from. Never mix it with the pigeon seed.I have heard of some people tossing it on the bottom, but it can get unsanitary with the droppings. 

I do also use the raw apple cider vinegar made by Braggs which can be found at any health store for a few bucks, and it goes a long way! I put a teaspoon and a half in a gallon of fresh water, shake it all up and I do this twice a week and is a great health booster. 

A good balanced diet is also important. I add lentils, small yellow pop corn, green peas, brown rice(all raw uncooked of course) and treat them with safflower and sunflower hearts as a treat.

Please do keep us posted.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm trying to post a pic of most recent droppings today.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi Victor. I didn't know who you were until I saw tooterville. I know who you are now and read last year the story of Tooter getting lost. I was glued to that story and my heart went out to you. Also, not giving up the search and then he came home. I was elated and the first thing I thought was , now this would be the guy to take Bigboy. Thank you for the advice . I will make a bee-line to the petsmart when they open and the health store. Do I just open up hes mouith and give him a squirt ? Thanks.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

His poops look good.



> Do I just open up hes mouith and give him a squirt


No, if you do that he might aspirate and die. You replace the drinking water with the water tyreated with ACV.

Cynthia


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Can you bring him in a cage into your house or somewhere he gets some sunshine ? Or if there is any opening to the basement which allows sunshine directly in, that will work too. 

He may be running down on his vitamins and nutrients and losing his energy but you mentioned four years, thats too long a timespan to witness such a condition if it was only due to lack of nutrients and sunshine. A week on vitamin supplements, calcium grit and adequate sun shine, he *may* turn as cheerful if not better than he was before  but I would not miss an appointment with the vet here in this case


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

it could possibly be metabolic bone disease, sunshine and calcium is the cure
if it's not possible to get him out in the sunlight you can get a quality reptile uva light


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

altgirl35 said:


> it could possibly be metabolic bone disease, sunshine and calcium is the cure
> if it's not possible to get him out in the sunlight you can get a quality reptile uva light


Yes, good suggestion, I think there are full spectrum lights available which are used for the finches aviary also


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

sreeshs said:


> Yes, good suggestion, I think there are full spectrum lights available which are used for the finches aviary also


right, they do make them especially for birds, i don't know what the difference is


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Good morning folks. Bigboy drank about 6 gulps of water and then had a watery movement. He is very perky , cooing, huffing and puffing, etc. He did eat a little bit also because there were fewer of the yummy seeds in his bowl. He is moving upstairs and will be in front of a large window so there's plenty of sunshine, permanently, in about 2 hours. 
What is now obvious is that he does not want to spread his wings. He is only hopping up and down from the various spots at the bottom of his coop. Where he's been since yesterday. Also has a heat lamp in 1 spot since yesterday also. He does not want to spread his wings. Also, he is not pecking me as hard as usual, but does want to be held. it's obvious that perhaps it hurts to fly. So there you have it. I am off to get calcium grit and some type of multple vitamin as suggested. I will moniter him closely to see if he starts to recover and fly. Thanks. George.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

George, I had posted a different reply to this one, as I signed on and did not have a look at his droppings from today which don't actually don't look too bad. I still really think that an avian vet should have a look at him as I do not like the way he is acting and you describing, for all intense purposes, him to be grounded.

I would highly recommend that you get a kitchen weigh scale, if you don't already have one, and weigh him early each morning at the same time to monitor his weight. It would be a good idea if you could post back the first weight you take of him, for us to get an idea what his body mass is like. If you find he is loosing weight, this should be a warning sign that you need to be more aggressive in finding out what is wrong.

Karyn


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

OK,will do. He was eating. And he did make an attempt to fly on top of his box tonight, but not quite. Its about 14" up. And he is perky, coming after me and pecking. He is also in a new environment now too. I don't think he quite knows what to make of it. But he's very comfortable. Will keep posting. Thanks.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

George, the one thing I did want to mention about taking the "wait and see approach" is that sometimes if there is something going on that is not too far advanced, that waiting and seeing can give it more time to take hold and this can end up making treatment more problematic. I sure don't like the way he has lost his ability to fly and if I could make one more suggestion right now for you, it would be to take some of his droppings into a vet and have some "fecal" tests run on them. These tests will be able to rule out a few of the common things that could effect his ability to fly and may also pick up on if there are indications of a present bacterial infection.

Karyn


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi folks, Bigboy is in good spirits. Eating drinking, cooing and prancing. Yesterday he flew up 3 feet to sit on my bald head(his favorite spot). He tends to stay in his house when it's sunny. But comes out. he seems to be happy and proud. I think he likes it. poops are good. He drank his vitamin water yesterday. He was alot during the night cooing. I don't know what to make of that. I got up and went in to encourage him to go to sleep a few times. He doesn't like flapping his wings much and when he does he seems to sit still a moment as if it hurt. I'm thinking that he flew around in his coop and perhaps injured his wing ? I'm going to go up and sit with him a bit. I'm still trying to find calcium grit locally. Thanks for all your help. george


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

George, thanks for the positive update on your Bigboy. As I said, I was less alarmed when I saw his droppings. Please do continue to monitor things closely until he is all the way back to normal, and don't forget to keep an eye on his weight. Perhaps it was/is just some kind of soft tissue injury as you mention, but without a firm diagnosis of this, we have to remain on guard for a little while yet and the supplementing with vitamins made by other members I think was a good idea.

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

dovetail said:


> Good morning folks. Bigboy drank about 6 gulps of water and then had a watery movement. He is very perky , cooing, huffing and puffing, etc. He did eat a little bit also because there were fewer of the yummy seeds in his bowl. *He is moving upstairs and will be in front of a large window so there's plenty of sunshine, permanently, in about 2 hours. * What is now obvious is that he does not want to spread his wings. He is only hopping up and down from the various spots at the bottom of his coop. Where he's been since yesterday. Also has a heat lamp in 1 spot since yesterday also. He does not want to spread his wings. Also, he is not pecking me as hard as usual, but does want to be held. it's obvious that perhaps it hurts to fly. So there you have it. I am off to get calcium grit and some type of multple vitamin as suggested. I will moniter him closely to see if he starts to recover and fly. Thanks. George.



In front of a window can be dangerous too as he can get too hot and will be unable to get out of the sun if he is getting too hot. Also, glass diminishes greatly the effectiveness of vitamin D from the sun and so you will still need to supplement with calcium and vit D.
Certainly, he will be happier in a light filled room rather than in the basement...less lonely too.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*The Importance of Light*

http://prettybirds.net/Light.htm


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

He's by a window, not in front of a window. He likes to stay in his house during the day anyways. I'm keeping an eye on things because I thought about that too. Thanks.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Bigboy flew up about 8 feet to a transom window today and didn't want to come down. This room is a whole new world of bewilderment for him and Ii can see it in him. He also seems to be very happy. I think he's going to be OK. Thanks. George


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Does anyone know where I can buy some calcium grit ? I went to petsmart and the girl in that department didn't even know what it was.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Calcium and grit are 2 different things. *You need grit and oyster shell.* You also need a vitamin with vit.D.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

Thanks. Does petco or petsmart have the oyster? I bought a red grit from the feed store.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They might. A feed store would have it too.


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## dovetail (Aug 26, 2006)

*Bigboy is back in the saddle.*

Good news. Bigboy was himself this morning with strong wings. He's flying around and seems to have his energy back. He doesn't sleep at night though. I think because of the basement his clock is topsy-turvy. Hopefully this will change. Thanks everyone so much for your help and advice. I'll let you know how things progress.....George


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Good news  and good luck George


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Looking forward to updates!


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