# Greetings! Pigeon Family Photos from Our Balcony



## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Hello, all. I am an American living in Bangkok with my Thai wife. A year ago, a pigeon couple, whom we've namd Big Pidgee and Little Pidgee, moved into a flower pot on our sixth-floor balcony while we were upcountry. We allowed them to stay, even providing a roomier flower box and fresh water.

I have a thread detailing our experiences with them and the dozen eggs they've laid to date here on another Board.

Photos of all can be found here, here, here, here and here. When looking at the pages, click on any photo to enlarge it.

One egg from the recent, sixth batch hatched six days ago (this past Sunday), but the other egg must be unfertilized. It's not hatched. We're keeping it there for a few days longer, though, just to be sure. (The Unhatched Egg thread in this Forum was pointed out to me and is how I learned of this Board.)


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

Thank you for allowing the birds to stay and providing them with room/board, and sharing your adventures and pictures with us of your pigeon family. They sure do provide alot of entertainment, don't they?

Please feel to browse this forum and make yourself familiar with it, as there is alot of information here. 

I appreciate you sharing on the other thread, sometimes only one egg will hatch, it makes you wonder..... I suspect it is probably not fertile, given that all their eggs hatched in the past, as sometimes it can be caused by disease, something to consider also.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Siam Sam said:


> (The Unhatched Egg thread in this Forum was pointed out to me and is how I learned of this Board.)


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=384703&postcount=13


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Welcome Siam Sam! The links you posted aren't working for me ..

Terry


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

D'oh! Looks like I have a double "http://" in the links in my OP. Sorry about that. I'll try again.

The photos are here, here, here, here and here.

The thread detailing our year-long (as of this past Tuesday) experience with the pigeons is here.

I fixed the links in the OP, too. When looking at the pages, click on any photo to enlarge it. I'll post photos of George, one week old today (Sunday) soon.

After the first batch, we replaced the flowerpot with a roomier flower box. The second batch of eggs was laid before the first pair of squabs left the nest, and the way the squabs were clambering around and squeezing into the flowerpot with the parent, we were afraid they'd break the eggs! We change the box every two batches, filling it about two-thirds to three-fourths full of dirt. Big and Little Pidgee like the end of the box by the wall, and we make the dirt in that end a little lower, but they still "landscape" it to their liking anyway before flying in twigs for a nest.

Bird flu is endemic in Thailand, but these pigeons seem healthy. I don't think the unhatched egg in the present batch is due to illness. We see some really ratty pigeons on the streets here sometimes, but we live in a neighborhood full of resources for ours. As you can see from the photos, they must get lots to eat. They're a beautiful pair of birds, and the squabs always turn out nice looking. Next door to our condominium is a mansion with beautiful grounds and no dogs or cats. We see lots of birdlife there -- our bedroom overlooks the grounds -- and suspect that's where the squabs end up when they leave here. They really seem to appreciate the water we leave out for them, though.


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## Kancora (Apr 17, 2009)

Great photos Sam. You look like you've had a lot of fun with them. They do love flower pots don't they?!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the fixed links, Sam, and WHOA .. you are an EXTREMELY patient person on that other list .. I think I would have threatened bodily harm to some of those folks by now 

Since you are in a bird flu area, it would be really helpful for you to totally educate yourself. Pigeons are not susceptible to the avian flu that has decimated other types of birds in Asia .. how you're going to convince anyone of that is up in the air, but the facts are there if you care to go looking for them .. start here ..

http://www.purebredpigeon.com/avianflu.htm

This one is a bit rough, but the message is the same .. pigeons aren't the avian flu culprit: http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_invincible_flu-immune_pigeon/

http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers3.php

Just Google it .. you'll find more including from the CDC here in the US.

Terry


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

That's good to know about bird flu. That's the first thing my wife's relatives asked about when the pigeons first arrived.

The funny thing is we're not allowed to have pets in this building, including birds. But we're not keeping them; they're free to leave anytime. Of course, we're not exactly encouraging them to leave either, hehehe.

My wife's grown niece keeps a couple of doves caged at her home and likes watching our pigeons. Our guys have so much fun flying around, I wouldn't ever want to try to catch them. They do have a good set-up here, with the mansion grounds next door supplying abundant food and us supplying water and a safe place to shelter. We're entering the rainy season again now, so they've been getting a bit damp, but where the flower box is, it's pretty sheltered from the usual direction of the wind and rain.

They even have a designated sex area: The left side of our balcony, the other side from the box. They will have sex only in that area, nowhere else. When it comes mating time, they may both be perched on a rail near the box when Big Pidgee will hop down and go over there, followed by Little Pidgee -- or sometimes they'll go simultaneously, as if sort of unseen signal has passed between them -- and have at it. When they've finished their business, then they return to the rail. It's quite funny. (I believe I included a couple of shots of them mating in one of my links; could have been better, but I was trying not to frighten them.)

We're curious about that unfertilized egg we have. Could that be a sign of age in the pigeons? Or just one of those things? The parents were mating constantly this last time, right up to the same day the first egg was laid in the latest batch. It certainly didn't go unfertilized for lack of trying.


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Siam Sam, I blew a couple hours reading the entire thread. your pictures are awesome, and it's really fun to watch the ways the parents' genetics came out in the sets of squabs. 

I hope someone here can identify what was up with the last set's (Holly and Mickey) wacky head bare patches - it's almost as if they got pecked and wounded and it's healing up. very odd. 

Big Pidgee is a gorgeous coloring, even if his wife's a little plain, and it's come out in some really nice varieties of young birds.  Glad you're enjoying them!


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi Siam

Loved your blog. They are fascinating creatures. I had exactly the same happen to me. I was away visiting family over Xmas and a pigeon couple laid eggs in our flower bog on the balcony. It was fascinating watching them grow up. Their behaviour is just like yours, which isn't unexpected.

I was hoping for mine to lay another batch of eggs, but that hasn't happened yet (4 months on). Unlike your's though the squabs do stick around. Perhaps that is because I feed them. They ate all the green off my pot plants when I was away for a week and not feeding them.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

ceren said:


> I hope someone here can identify what was up with the last set's (Holly and Mickey) wacky head bare patches - it's almost as if they got pecked and wounded and it's healing up. very odd.


Yes, those marks on Micky and Holly -- and Holly's bump, causing us to start calling her Bumpy Head -- were a mystery. We never saw the squabs pecking hard at each other, or the parents pecking at them. Big Pidgee was good at chasing away any other pigeons who came around. Whatever it was did not seem to bother them at all. It certainly didn't seem painful to them when we touched it.

In my thread at the other Board, I wrote:

*"Wednesday morning, and Mickey and Holly are 40 and 39 days old. That bump on Holly's head is not going away, and she has some sort of protuberance sticking out of both earholes; it actually looks like bone! Mickey has one protuberance sticking out of only his left ear. Neither squab appears bothered by any of this; they jump and fly around healthy as can be. I can no longer catch Holly, so I can't inspect it further. I did when it first appeared, before she started flying, and it's definitely a bump and not a ruffled feather or two but did not appear to be painful for her when I touched it.

"We've now taken to calling Holly 'Bumpy Head' regularly. The wife expressed concern that she may not be able to find a mate looking like that, but I said not to worry, she'll just shake her little ass in front of some guy pigeon, and that will be that."*



malfunctional said:


> They ate all the green off my pot plants when I was away for a week and not feeding them.


Haha! I should explain to the readers in the US that "pot plants" are what Americans refer to as "potted plants" and not what they usually think of when they read "pot plants." So no, those were not some stoned little squabs. I know this term from my British friends here.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

I now have a new folder for photos of George.

*Monday, April 20*
Here we have Big Pidgee taking a snooze while guarding Little Pidgee like he always does when she's preparing to lay her eggs. She laid the first egg of the latest batch the next day.

*Wednesday, April 22*
Here is Big Pidgee with the egg the day after it was laid. And Little Pidgee with it later here.

*Thursday, April 23*
The second egg was laid this day, and here they both are. Sadly, only one hatched.

*Sunday, May 10*
George hatched this day, and here he is with Mama. (The sun gets a little bright this time of the year in the morning.) You can see him better here. and later that morning, Big Pidgee arrived for the Switch and met his new son for the first time.

*Wednesday, May 13*
George is 3 days old here with Father.

*Friday, May 15*
George, aged 5 days. By now, we're pretty sure the other egg's not going to hatch. That's a feather stuck to it in the photo, not a crack. Of all the squabs I've handled -- the first few batches I never touched, fearing the parents would reject them if we did; we now know Big and Little Pidgee don't really care if we've touched them -- George is so far the most okay with it. Reactions from others when we've petted them have ranged from "Oh no! This is it! My time is up!" to "Oh, crap. Okay, go ahead and do it if you must." But George is seemingly completely at ease. Pecks at my finger a little to see if it's something he can eat and looks around. He's in my hand here and here. Then I stepped inside briefly, and the wife took this shot; it's fuzzy, but we wanted photographic evidence of the first pigeon actually to make it inside our home.

*Sunday, May 17*
And that brings us up to today. (Sort of; it's after midnight here and technically Monday now.) George is 1 week old now. Here he is with Big Pidgee. And in the afternoon, after we did our weekly balcony cleaning. And with Little Pidgee after the Switch in the late afternoon. In these last two shots, you can see the beginnings of feathers, or at least feather shafts. That's the whitish streaks now appearing.

All of the photos of George in this post can be seen on one page here. Again, click on any photo to enlarge it.

Poor Big Pidgee was a bit put out today. I moved the flower box over to the other side of the balcony so we could clean around the box's usual area. If he's still watching after eggs or young squabs, he'll stay around in the afternoon; once the squabs are older, the parents will often leave them alone in the afternoon for long stretches. It looked like he was going to stay in the box with George, so we put down a little Dettol disinfectant on the floor and were going to wait five minutes before washing it away like we usually do, as per the instructions. But Big Pidgee decided he wanted to know what we were doing with his prized living area, so he hopped out of the box to come see. He and Little Pidgee are often extremely concerned about what we might be doing there. I did not want him to get into the disinfectant, so I had to shoo him back. He did NOT like that. He grunted at me, and I swear it looked like he was scowling. I had to shoo him a couple of times. Gently, but he was not a happy camper. We washed the Dettol down quickly and moved him back over. But I got my hand too close, and he gave me a wing slap.

We've decided to remove the unhatched egg on Wednesday, just to make absolutely sure it's not going to miraculously hatch somehow. George will be 10 days old, and that will be more than a week after the last day of what we we figured was the window for the egg to hatch (assuming this one was the second egg laid; if it's the first one laid, then the window will have ended even longer ago). I keep having visions of what would have been little Gracie popping out shortly after I've disposed of the egg.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I must say that this thread has turned out to be most entertaining........I too spent a good bit of time going through the forum that you posted. Humans can be such idiots sometimes...........loved ALL the pictures. 
I've seen what you see happening, a hundred times in my loft. Something about watching it in nature without much human intervention is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing all these babies with us.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your kind comments. Looks like pigeons moving into balcony flowerpots is a much more common phenomenon than I would ever have imagined.

Monday morning here, and Little Pidgee left George alone to go find some breakfast earlier this morning. 8 days old now. I can see little gray feathers starting to appear from the feather shafts. He's now entering the phase where he'll try to stand and "click" at me when he sees me in the window. But when I went outside to give him a little pet -- I never try to touch the squabs when the parents are around; they clearly want to be left alone -- he didn't snap at me when he tried to rear up. He did peck around my fingers, looking for something to eat maybe, but again he was fine with being handled. We're wondering if lack of a sibling is altering his behavior pattern.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Haha. Sam you had me hosing at that comment about the pot plants. Yes indeed they are what Americans call "potted" plants. I can just imagine the pigeons if this was not the case.

I've looked at a few of your pictures. How big is your balcony roughly?

Here is a video you might find interesting.
http://www.facebook.com/v/127947330073
Hopefully it loads properly. It starts off with my squabs, Bangers and Mash both at 28 days getting fed by Dad. As Dad is here Mash starts to show off and practises flying by doing her helicopters. Bangers is getting some food from Dad in the right. Afterwards Dad rewards Mash with a quick mouthful of food.

They hadn't properly flown at that stage. A few days later I still hadn't seen them fly and I came home to find poor Bangers all on his own in the flower pot in the corner. He looked very lonely and I figured Mash had finally perfected flying and had flown the coup. I thought she might return when it started getting dark. As I've also found out, the pigeons do not fly at night. Anyway as it started to get too dark it occurred to me that perhaps she had fallen off the balcony. I'm on the 3rd floor (4th floor for Americans) and there is a generous layer of bushes directly below my balcony. There are also quite a few cats on my building so if she was down there she probably wouldn't have lasted too long. 

Anyway I went downstairs and started rummaging through the bushes. They are pretty thick bushes but eventually I could make out her silhouette below all the greenery. I can only imagine that she had attempted to fly and had not made it very far. As the bushes very pretty thick it was quite a mission to shepard her out and catch her again, traumatised as she was. In the end I caught her and took her upstairs again to be reunited with her brother. And the thanks I got was pretty much the same as what you've had. Her and Bangers didn't even acknowlege until it got really dark and they were too scared to sleep alone so they huddled up in their usual place. Perhaps he was jealous of her early excursion. She would have been 32 days on that day. I'll have to check how this ties in with your squabs ages for first flights. Perhaps something like this happened to Snowy when she dissappeared first time. 

Anyway love your posting. At least now I understand why Mom had her head down Dad's throat of late. Although it's been 4 months since the original eggs were laid and I know they haven't had any more since. This is mainly as Mom and Dad have always arrived together on my balcony so no body could be home looking after eggs. (And they have been here almost every day).


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Here that is on youtube if the first link didn't work 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYafPz42mUs


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thanks. We have a very slow Internet service, and it takes forever to load videos. Will check that out later after it loads. Our balcony is not very big, but as you can see from the photos, we have a concrete verge at the bottom, about 5" high. We've found by the time they're hopping up on that, they're about ready to fly. In fact, I remember one batch -- was it Sammy? -- I first saw him fly when it looked like he slipped off. His flying ability may have surprised him that that time, too.

We like it when they do helicopters, too. 

Tuesday morning, George is 9 days old, and we went ahead and removed the egg when Little Pidgee was out for breakfast. We noticed yesterday that both of the parents were starting to ignore it. Covering up the squab while leaving the egg exposed. Sitting over on the rail, leaving the egg exposed. We didn't open it, though; but it felt very light, like it was hollow. Not that these eggs weigh a lot anyway.

George tries to raise up now when he sees and when alone, but unlike the previous squabs, he doesn't try to snap at us. Petted him a bit this morning, and he's fine with it.

Some decidedly gray feathers appearing now.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Saw the video. They make the same noise ours make.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Sounds like the egg was a dud. As far as I can tell the easiest way to check is to shine a torch (American flashlight) through it.
On my balcony there is a 5cm (2inch) gap at the bottom before the railing starts. The reason I mention this is that from the pigeon's point of view it is quite easy to see me inside my flat and whenever they see me they get a little scared and they do the strangest thing. They turn around and rest on their bellies under the railing. That way they can make a quick get away if I am to attack them or something, but to them it is almost as if, if they can't see me they are safe. They'll lie there for awhile and slowly turn their heads to see if I am still there. If I am they'll quickly turn back and look out onto the world. When they fly up and are perched on the top of the balcony they will do a similar thing. They will either move so that the frame of the door is between them and me and they can't see me, or they will move right to the edge so that they can hide behind the curtains. It is sort of like if I can't see you, you can't see me and I'm safe.

Mom and Dad are in the flower box and Dad is cooing away. (They can't see me from the flower box so it's a safe place). They do this every day, but no more babies....


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

As you can see from some of the photos, such as this one, once our squabs do get up onto the concrete verge, they like squeezing between it and the lowest rail. There's something about being squeezed under like that that seems to provide some sense of security. And they always choose that same same spot, close to the flower box and near that outer green wall behind you can see in the photo. The parents like to roost on the rails above, not on the verge, but they like that same area, again we think possibly because it's a bit enclosed and feels safe.

George is 10 days old now (Wednesday morning). Alone again while Little Pidgee went to breakfast, so I picked him up. I'm getting the distinct impression that he likes me. He seems not to be the least bit afraid or put out. Stares around him; nibbles on my finger in apparent hopes that it's some sort of beak he can plug into and be fed. On the other hand, the wife said that late yesterday afternoon while I was away, George did rear up and snap at Little Pidgee when she came back from somewhere and that Mama had to soothe him a bit. Is this because of a lack of a sibling? Could he think he's ... human?


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thursday morning and George is 11 days old. His instincts may be kicking in, as he does not seem quite so easy at seeing me coming now. Lots more feathers coming out.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

New pics soon. Friday morning, and George is 12 days old. There are enough feathers out that he's feeling soft now. He's at that stage where he looks like a little feather ball with a squab's head sticking out. 

Definitely not so easy anymore when he sees me coming but seems fascinated with what's going on inside our home, which he can see into easily.


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## pigeon-software (May 16, 2009)

Siam Sam said:


> Definitely not so easy anymore when he sees me coming but seems fascinated with what's going on inside our home, which he can see into easily.


 Maybe he's listening to the Thai news and wondering what the heck is going on with them politicians !

I live just down the road in Bangpakong, so I will watch out for George next time I'm up in Bangers


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Sunday morning, and George is two weeks old. He spent his first night completely alone last night. Little Pidgee did not stay here. Happens about this time. she was here to feed him this morning, though.

And the parents were romping in the designated sex area of the balcony again yesterday, so more eggs are probably on the way. I just hope Big Pidgee can fertilize both eggs this time. I managed to take a shot of him mounted on top of Little Pidgee.  Will post that and other new photos soon, probably after I take some more after today's balcony cleaning.

When I pick George up now, he loosens up after a few minutes, I guess once he figures he's not going to die. But he's never as aggressive as some of the previous squabs -- even though he'll rear up and "click" his beak a little, he does not snap at me -- so we're wondering if this is actually Gracie instead of George. But he or she is stuck with the name George now.

Oh, and yesterday at age 13 days, George made it over to the other side of the flower box for the first time. Another week, and he'll probably be hopping out of the box.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

More eggs on the way. Exciting stuff. Your two just never stop. I wonder why mine haven't laid anymore. I'm guessing they haven't had eggs elsewhere as I've seen them most days and never apart, so one could never be looking after the eggs full time. Today Bangers (4 months now) brought a friend along for breakfast. A very hungry friend. Maybe there will be grand children on the way some time.

Looking forward to your photos


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

New photos. Including some hot pidgee sex! 

*Monday, May 18*
Here George is 8 days old. You can just see the other egg. A cute one here. And with Little Pidgee.


*Tuesday, May 19*
George at 9 days. Then a little closer. And taking a snooze. This is the day I removed the other egg.


*Wednesday, May 20*
With Mother at 10 days. He's bulking up good now. And one alone.


*Thursday, May 21*
At 11 days


*Friday, May 22*
With Big Pidgee at 12 days.


*Saturday, May 23*
And now we get to what you're all waiting for: Pidgee sex!  But first, here is George at 13 days. Notice he's spread out a bit. Being an only child, he has more room in the nest and been able to spread himself out more than the other squabd were able to.

And now for the adult material. Big and Little Pidgee sharing a kiss during foreplay in their designated sex area. (The little triangles reflected in the window are from what's called an axe pillow we have on the floor.) And firmly mounted on her. Just after I took this shot, he flapped his wings, signalling "The Moment," but I was unable to get that like I did that one time. Funny, too, but immediately afterward he flew what looked like a victory lap, going way out into the distance and then back, landing on the balcony above us. Big and Little Pidgee are rather shameless; George was watching the whole time, apparently wondering what they were doing and why they weren't feeding him. The parents always have sex in this exact same spot, never anywhere else. Or at least, not anywhere else on the balcony.


*Sunday, May 24*
George at 2 weeks. Then me holding him up, still fitting into my hand, barely. We'd moved the flower box over for the balcony cleaning that day. And here that side is clean again. (But it did not stay that way for long!)


*Monday, May 25*
Looking a little droopy-eyed here at 15 days. You can see how his wing pattern is developing.


*Tuesday, May 26*
Checking out the other side of the flower box at 16 days. (This was not the first time he ventured over there, though.) Another nap here. That second photo was taken only 23 seconds after the first one; he's a sleepy little guy. He seems to sleep more than the other squabs. Again, the absence of a sibling jostling him seems to allow for more rest. Also in that second one are budding signs of the same facial "mask" features of his father, Big Pidgee. And one more.

And again, you can see all of George's photos on one page here. Click on any one of them to enlarge it.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Sunday morning, and George is three weeks old. We did the balcony cleaning on Saturday this time, because we have to be out and about today. He hopped out of the box for the first time on his own, but I'm not sure it counts, because I think he was just got caught up in the excitement. But he's not ventured out again despite walking back and forth to each end of the flower box and looking curiously at the balcony floor. When he did hop out yesterday, he went and hid behind the "living room," one of the big tree pots. Other squabs have done that, too; we get the impression they think if they can't see us, then we can't see them.

Big and Little Pidgee still stop by to feed him, but they've stopped spending a lot of time here. And we've noticed fewer pigeons on the mansion grounds next door. We're wondering if there's some sort of seasonal thing with pigeons that make them go elsewhere. Not actual migration, as Big and Little Pidgee have been here a full year, and our seasons are not the same as in the West anyway, but something causing them to change location.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Definitely looks like there could be grandkids on the way. Bangers and his girl (Abby) are on my balcony right now making out. Just the mouth down the throat. None of your piggy back riding stuff. Dad on the other hand returned for breakfast on his own this morning for the first time. Perhaps Mom is on some eggs elsewhere. I think I'm far too inquisitive for them to feel safe enough to try nest here again. 

WAIT. I wrote to soon. Bangers is up on Abby's back. First time I've seen that and I don't have my camera handy. There does not seem to be a designated sex area here. They were actually on the balcony rail in full view of the world. It does not last long and they flew off immediately.

I feel sorry for the eggs if there are going to be any. It's getting to the really cold and wet time of the year here in Cape Town. Well I'm away for a couple of weeks so maybe they'll enjoy their time without spying eyes.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

Oh and I forgot to mention the other baby, Mash. She always comes past on her own looking very timid. The other day I watched her fly off and land on a roof in the distance with many other pigeons on it. It's good to know she has plenty of friends even if she isn't going to tell them where her secret food stash is.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Siam Sam said:


> Sunday morning, and George is three weeks old. We did the balcony cleaning on Saturday this time, because we have to be out and about today. He hopped out of the box for the first time on his own, but I'm not sure it counts, because I think he was just got caught up in the excitement. But he's not ventured out again despite walking back and forth to each end of the flower box and looking curiously at the balcony floor. When he did hop out yesterday, he went and hid behind the "living room," one of the big tree pots. Other squabs have done that, too; we get the impression they think if they can't see us, then we can't see them.
> 
> Big and Little Pidgee still stop by to feed him, but they've stopped spending a lot of time here. And we've noticed fewer pigeons on the mansion grounds next door. We're wondering if there's some sort of seasonal thing with pigeons that make them go elsewhere. Not actual migration, as Big and Little Pidgee have been here a full year, and our seasons are not the same as in the West anyway, but something causing them to change location.


Hello. Usually what would cause them to change location is food source. If the food source dwindles, and is better somewhere else, they will go there. 
Also predators. If hawks and other predators are hitting them too often, that will drive them away also. The hawks were so bad here this past winter, that our ferral flock that come to the garden stopped coming completely. Out of a flock of maybe about 35. Eventually, 3 or 4 came back, but sporadically. I have been feeding them in my backyard for 20 years. Eventually, as the hawks moved on, they are slowly returning. We now get about 16 to 20 a day. Seasons don't affect their coming and going. The parents will come less and less often to feed the babies, as they have started a new nest somewhere else. By a month old, he should be weaned and eating just seed. Leaving seed out there with him, and letting him see the parent bird eating it, that will help to teach him how to eat seed. Smaller seeds are easier for him to start with. 
By the way, I have been enjoying your posts. Thank you for sharing them.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I, too, have enjoyed all the growth updates and adventures of George (or Georgia?)!! Looks like he(?) will be a beautiful Blue Bar.

You have a really lovely balcony, Siam Sam!

That was a great mating shot. Since their mating only takes a *very* short time, you were fortunate to get it!

Will look forward to more posts.

Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi and her gang: Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Just caught your thread and have enjoyed your chronicles of life with feral pigeons. I'm sorry the members of the forum you linked feel the way they do about pigeons but, sadly, many people do until they know one up close and personal. The pictures have been delightful.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thanks all!

There are no predators around -- well, I've seen one cat in the neighborhood on occasion -- and the food source stays about the same year-round. We're tropical, and while our three seasons are hot, rainy and "cool" (when it actually drops down into the 80s Fahrenheit. Brrr!), they say the seasons are really hot, hotter and hottest, so there's growth all year long. Once or twice we'd thought the parents had left, but they've always come back usually within a week, two at the most. Our neighborhood -- and balcony -- seem to be an almost-perfect environment for pigeons. Out on the polluted main streets of the concrete jungle, life must be rogh for the ones we see. But our neighborhood is very nice, with lots of green areas to hunt for food, and water from us. Big Pidgee has proved very territorial, though, chasing away any other pigeon who dares invade the balcony, even Katie when she came back and tried to move in! He doesn't even like it when they land on the window frames nearby

I did have a couple of other mating shots in my other photo folders. Here and here, last December. Always in that same spot. 

And no sooner had I written that the parents were not spending much time here anymore than Big Pidgee came by yesterday and tried to entice George out of the box. Then he spent the night on the rail last night. Now he's back again. I guess his parenting instinct kicked in. He's done this before with the previous squabs. Will stand a little ways away and coo at the squabs. They'll squeal and flap their wings to be fed, but he is clearly trying to persuade them to come out. George is 22 days old today (Monday), and he's been stretching his head over the box to look out at the balcony floor.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thursday morning, and George is 25 days old. Stands a lot and walks inside the flower box but has not jumped out on his own accord. It's usually about this time, I think. His yellow squab fuzz is just about completely gone, and he has a very sweet face; makes me think maybe this is Gracie after all and not George!

Does not like to be touched, but he's super soft now, so I cannot help myself. Funny how in their first few days, they seem to think you're something that's come to feed them, then their instincts kick in.

Big Pidgee chooses to stay here every night now and during the day will often try to entice George out of the box. Fascinating to watch. Little Pidgee's not been seen for a week now. She may have come around when we weren't looking, but this has become a familiar pattern.


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## kingsley hannah (Jan 9, 2008)

loving this thread  do you notice the other birds (older siblings) still in the area? is the local flock increasing? very curious to know if your babies are going on to be parents and if you see much of them aroun do they visit mom and dad?


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

kingsley hannah said:


> loving this thread  do you notice the other birds (older siblings) still in the area? is the local flock increasing? very curious to know if your babies are going on to be parents and if you see much of them aroun do they visit mom and dad?


We've not seen any of the other squabs for a while now. A few used to stop by.

Interestingly, Katie from one batch seems to have hooked up with Sammy from another batch. Would they even know they're siblings?

But we do think sometimes we can recognize some of the pigeons hunting around for food in the mansion grounds next door. The distance is a bit far, so we're not always sure, but those grounds are where they probably end up. There and maybe around the Chinese-Thai temple directly across from us, as it has a lot of trees, too.

We think, though, that Katie may actually be male and Sammy female, because they wanted to move into the flower box, and Big Pidgee and Katie had a big pigeon fight out on the balcony while Sammy only looked on. Big Pidgee is very territorial and does not want to share this place. There were a couple of fights, and we ended up having to intervene and chase Katie away. I mean, they were really fighting -- knocking over the water, spraying up the dirt (and other matter) in the flower box. Big Pidgee clearly believes in "tough love" and kicking the young 'uns out when it comes time. That was awhile ago. They must have given up and found another place.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Saturday morning, and George is 27 days old. Yesterday, at age 26 days, he hopped out and went walkabout! Just a little. Checked out the area near the flower box and hopped back in. While I was away later, the wife said he hopped out to run after Big Pidgee when he arrived. One thing about not having a sibling, George has no competition for being fed, and father is not swamped as forcefully as he is with two squabs.

The wife said Little Pidgee stopped by for water, the first sighting of her in 8 days. George just stared at her from the box. It's Big Pidgee he gets excited for. Dad's been the favorite with every batch.

Big Pidgee stayed elsewhere last night. We're wondering if that's because he's seen George get out of the box now. He seemed to be hanging around mostly to coax him out of the box. Maybe that was his motivation for staying here, too.

More photos soon.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

New Photos! 

*Wednesday, May 27*
George is 17 days old. Still a lot of yellow baby fuzz here. And catching a snooze.

*Thursday, May 28*
Looking right atcha at age 18 days.

*Friday, May 29*
19 days old. The baby fuzz is getting thinner here, and George is looking like a real little pigeon. Here is his other side.

*Saturday, May 30*
George is 20 days old now and is outgrowing my hand. We were cleaning the balcony a little, and here he is taking another nap after his big adventure. (He loves to sleep. )

*Sunday, May 31*
And George is a full 3 weeks old here. His baby fuzz is fast disappearing.

*Monday, June 1*
22 days old now. This one is early in the morning. And a right profile. And a side shot.

*Tuesday, June 2*
George is 23 days old, and here you can see his baby fuzz is just about gone. And a back view; notice the different shades as you get toward the tail.

*Wednesday, June 3*
Age 24 days.

*Thursday, June 4*
25 days, and here he is showing off his standing skills. His baby fuzz is gone now except for maybe the odd strand or two, and he looks like a pigeon. But whenever Dad comes around, you can see how small he really still is. And snoozing again.

*Friday, June 5*
26 days old, and speaking of dad, he and George are doing some synchronized lounging here. And a top view shows what a pretty little bird George is becoming. This is the day he hopped out of the box on his own, but I did not get a shot of that momentous occasion.

Saturday, June 6
27 days old, and here George is outside the flower box. He's re-creating the Normandy landing in honor of D-Day.

And again, you can see these and all of George's other photos on this page. Click on any one to enlarge it.

Yesterday (Sunday), we did a big balcony cleaning, and George flew over to the window frames. He seemed impressed with his newfound power and spent much of the rest of the afternoon flying back and forth between our balcony and our dining-area window. Big Pidgee showed up, and George followed him over to the window frame. Dad gave George a nice little head-and-neck massage; it really looked like he was rewarding George, giving him some positive reinforcement. Photos of all of this will bein the next round.

George has still not discovered the water yet, though. He walks past it, and once or twice while doing "helicopters," his wing dipped into it briefly.

Big Pidgee hangs around a lot more again. Out there now and has only missed I think one night in the past week sleeping here. He's taking an active interest in George. Little Pidgee, on the other hand, we rarely see now.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Thursday morning, and George is 32 days old. Last night, at age 31 days -- a full month -- he slept away from home for the first time.  He and Big Pidgee both.

But they were both around this morning. And George has discovered water. The wife saw him drinking a couple of days ago. This morning when I got up, the water bowl was half empty, and water was splashed around everywhere. George and Dad were over on the window frames, and George's feathers were all kerfuffled. I think he'd just had a bath. The wife saw the aftermath of a bath yesterday, too, but not the actual event.

This seems a tad early for George to leave. Perhaps it has to do with no sibling to anchor him here a bit longer? And Big Pidgee seems to be taking more of an interest in George than in most of the squabs. He's always acted like a good father, but he seems to be going the extra mile with George.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Siam Sam said:


> Thursday morning, and George is 32 days old. Last night, at age 31 days -- a full month -- he slept away from home for the first time.  He and Big Pidgee both.
> 
> But they were both around this morning. And George has discovered water. The wife saw him drinking a couple of days ago. This morning when I got up, the water bowl was half empty, and water was splashed around everywhere. George and Dad were over on the window frames, and George's feathers were all kerfuffled. I think he'd just had a bath. The wife saw the aftermath of a bath yesterday, too, but not the actual event.
> 
> ...


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Saturday morning here, George is 34 days old now, and he's been back here the last couple of nights. Just spent the one night away. Big Pidgee was back last night, too, and the two of them slept side by side on the lower rail near the flower box.

Dad really is taking a big, big interest in George. I've started to wonder ... since Little Pidgee has disappeared again (she was here briefly one time midweek) ... if maybe George IS Georgia, and ... Dad wants her for a girlfriend.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Monday morning, and George is 36 days old. He spends more and more time away in the day, and we expect he'll be gone before long. He still sleeps here at night, though, fitting snugly beteween the concrete verge and bottom rail, the same as previous squabs.

Yesterday, at age 5 weeks, he returned in late evening. Then Big Pidgee showed up. Dad strode straight for the water dish, but George ambushed him and demanded to be fed. George simply would NOT let Dad get a drink of water. Kept chasing him all over the balcony squealing. But George himself stopped and took a drink a couple of times before resuming his harangue of Big Pidgee, who finally gave up and flew away. He stayed somewhere else last night.

Will post some final pictures in the near futurre. After George moves out for good, it will be time to change the flower box again. We did see Little Pidgee briefly again recently, and Big Pidgee really likes our place, so hopefully there will be more eggs.

We had a new visitor these past couple of days, too. A pigeon we'd not seen before. Its coloring was a little dark, pretty sure not yet an adult, although the feet were already pink. Stopped by a couple of times yesterday for water while Big Pidgee was away. When it saw the wife watching, it panicked. Ran back and forth like in cartoons, then flew away. If Big Pidgee catches it here, he'll move it along.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Friday morning, and George is 40 days old. He doesn't hang around a lot anymore, but I did inadvertently scare him this morning when I opened the curtains to the balcony. Has not stayed here at night since Monday night, nor has Big Pidgee, but they do still stop by together.

Yesterday, the wife saw Big Pidgee hop inside the flower box and check it out, so maybe that's a good sign of more to come. We have a new flower box ready to switch with the old one but need more dirt.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

New photos!

*Sunday, June 7*
George is 4 weeks old today. Here he is trying to find a way down to the floor. Checking out the neighborhood while we clean the balcony.

The world is his oyster.

Balcony clean again and flower box replaced, George takes a snooze. And later in the dining-area window with Dad.


*Tuesday, June 9*
30 days old. Here George is in the tree area we refer to as the living room. The squabs always take to this spot once they grow wolder. That's the egg George came from under his butt. Snoozing again. And a close-up.


*Wednesday, June 10*

31 days old, a full month for him. Lounging in the living room. It's amazing that only 31 days before, he was inside that egg. (He hatched in the flower box, but I moved the egg there to preserve it for a while. George has since inadvertently kicked it out.) Sleeping yet again. And looking for a snack. And another nap.


*Friday, June 12*
33 days old.


*Sunday, June 14*
5 weeks old today. George contemplates his place in the world.


Saturday, June 20
41 days old.

And again, you can see all of George's photos on one page here. Just click on any one of them to enlarge.

And that may be it for George. He has definitely moved out. Big Pidgee's not been seen for a couple of days either, although the big piece of you-know-what in the water dish yesterday morning (Monday morning) probably came from him, as it looked to be too big for George. We'll keep putting fresh water out and also change the flower box soon and see what develops.

Yesterday we did have three other pigeons stop by to check the place out. One looked like Little Pidgee but had socky feet, leading us to believe it may have been Marty from the fourth batch. He'd be almost 6 months old now. Was with a dark-looking pigeon, and both still looked youngish. Then a white pigeon with black speckles -- looked like a Dalmatian -- stopped by. Big Pidgee was not around to chase them away, but they all left after a short while.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Siam Sam said:


> Yesterday we did have three other pigeons stop by to check the place out. One looked like Little Pidgee but had socky feet, leading us to believe it may have been Marty from the fourth batch. *He'd be almost 6 months old now.*


I meant almost 7 months old, as he hatched last November 24. It's the wee hours of the morning of the 24th now, so he's 7 months exactly.

And today (or yesterday, since it's after midnight), he and the dark pigeon returned. I looked out and there they were, both inside the flower box. Marty had his head down and was doing the classic "come hither" wing twitch. The dark one was preening his head. Then they both noticed me looking, freaked out and jumped out of the box. Then flew away after a bit. I'm pretty sure it's Marty. And still no Big Pidgee to chase them away.

The wife and her sister changed the flower box in the late afternoon when I was away. While they were doing that, Big Pidgee did show up. They think he may have been trying to chase them away. I think he just wanted some water. Landed on the edge of the balcony but did not dare go for water so flew around a bit. Ended up going over and chasing away some pigeons way over on the window frames. The wife thinks Marty was one of them. Still not staying here at night, and no further sign of Little Pidgee.

But there's a new flower box out there now, with fresh dirt in it. We're hoping they'll take the hint and start building another nest. Will start another thread with photos if they do.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Good news! Late Tuesday night now, almost midnight, and Big Pidgee is sleeping here again. He's out on his spot on the rail, watching me as I type this. Probably wondering why I don't close the curtain and give him some peace, which I'll do shortly.

The wife saw Little Pidgee on the edge of the balcony for a short while late in the afternoon while I was out. Then some time after she left, Big Pidgee arrived. After taking a big drink of water, he checked out the new flower box. "Lounged" in it for a while, scrunched down. His throat was moving like he may have been cooing, presumably for Little Pidgee, but the wife could not hear, due to the TV, and anyway Little P never came.

But Big Pidgee is staying here again, and we're hoping they're interested in building another nest.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

What's happening Sam? Is another batch on it's way or did Mom and Dad decide 15 youngsters is enough?


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## theBrewMeister (Jun 30, 2009)

any updates? I cant take the suspense! That white with black spots one sounds pretty. Big P is a gorgeous bird!


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Sorry, I haven't checked in for a few days. But ... we have another pigeon egg!  Little Pidgee laid it yesterday (Thursday). We expect another egg any time now. Hatchings to start in 2-1/2 weeks. The new names will be Bob and Susie; they'll be squabs #12 and 13. Hope they both hatch this time!

Little Bob is out there gestating now. Mama is with him. Big Pidgee flew off a little while ago. The new nest is looking good; Big Pidgee has flown in some pretty heavy-looking twigs. Both Big and Little Pidgee have been staying here at night, over on the rail. But when she saw me looking at the egg from inside, and then I reached through the door for the water dish to change it, Mama decided to get back on top of the egg.

Those other pigeons have not been seen on the balcony for a while now, although I notice the Dalmatian flying by and on the mansion grounds next door. Big Pidgee may have chased them away.

I was going to put this in a new thread, but since there was interest here, I'll continue this one for now. Will probably start a new thread when I have photos.

Oh, and the last time we saw George was when I looked over the balcony on Sunday, June 28 and saw him staring back up at me from two balconies below. Age 7 weeks. Then he flew away. Have not seen him since.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

And we have the second pigeon egg!  Little Susie has joined her brother, Bob. We just hope both eggs are fertilized this time. Little Pidgee laid it yesterday (Saturday). We returned home last night to find it in the nest, which by the way is coming along very well. It's amazing they know to build these things, with no prior instructions or training.

So the eggs were laid on July 9 and 11. Looking back in my records, I see Little Pidgee lasid eggs last year on July 2 and 4. That batch was Manny and Tammy.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Wow, Sam! You seem to have great records on the little pigeon family tree at your place! Please do keep us posted, and pictures would be most welcome!

Terry


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

We cleaned the balcony yesterday (Sunday) during the afternoon, while Big Pidgee was on egg duty. When I moved the box to the other side of the balcony, he rode along okay.

Later he hopped out to come see what we were doing to his precious living space, like he did that one time with the previous clutch of eggs. But this time we had not put down disinfectant, just water at the moment, so we did not try to chase him back. He looked around a bit and then went back to the eggs, but he clearly was not happy.

When I moved the box back after we finished, he rode along in it again. 

Not much to photograph now. Will take some pics when the hatchings start in a couple of weeks.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

It's the wee hours of Thursday morning now. The wife watched an interesting phenomenon late Wednesday afternoon.

The Switch occurred about 3:30pm, with Little Pidgee taking over from Big Pidgee. But sometime after 5pm, Big Pidgee returned with a twig. Then flew out for more. The wife said he flew in with a twig 7 times in 30 minutes that she counted. That's an average of just over one twig every 4 minutes. He'd fly in with it in his beak, hand it off to Little Pidgee or simply drop it into the flower box -- either way, she'd then arrange it -- then fly right back out, returning in a few minutes with another one. He may have done more than that, because the wife's not sure if he'd done any before she noticed. He stopped once for a big drink of water. When he flew out, sometimes he'd fly up and over the rail from next to the box, sometimes he'd walk over to the edge and dive straight down. We don't know why the sudden flurry of twig fetching. Maybe he found a new source. Maybe he knew it was growing late and that he'd have to turn in for the night soon.

But even though there have been eggs for several days now, nest building is proceeding unabated. And there seems to be a lot of feathers in the nest these last few days. A light gray, so they're all from Big Pidgee. He must be molting. But there are no bald patches; he's growing the feathers back. Both are always preening, so it's almost surprising there are not more feathers pulled out from both.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Saturday morning, and Little Pidgee went out for breakfast at dawn this morning, leaving the eggs unguarded. So I sneaked a peek. Did not touch them, but leaning over to look at them, there's a long "line" of some sort on one. Definitely not a crack, but I don't know what could cause it. An internal crack maybe? And what I'm seeing is its shadow? After that last unfertilized egg, we're paranoid. Will be at least 8 days before any hatchings begin. Hope they're okay this time.

Little Pidgee did return after breakfast.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

Sunday morning, and we've now entered the window for egg hatchings. They could come at any time. But not yet. Little Pidgee is out there sitting on the eggs, which I've had one clear look at this morning and seen they remain intact.

Big Pidgee is acting a little strange. The last time we saw him do the Switch was Wednesday. He did not come to spell Little Pidgee for the day Thursday and Friday at all! But the wife did see him stop by for water late Thursday afternoon, so we know he's around. We were away early to late yesterday and so don't know what happened then. I suggested maybe they had a domestic dispute and that it was no doubt her fault, but the wife doesn't think much of my theory. We'll be on the look-out today.

Will start a new thread for the new squabs when they hatch.


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## Siam Sam (May 16, 2009)

And little Bob hatched this morning (Monday morning)! 

New thread here.


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