# Help please! 2 baby pigeons



## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

I really need some help. We had a nest blown down in our garden containing 2 baby pigeons. We picked the nest up and nailed a new platform up in the branches of the same tree hoping the parents would continue to feed them. This hasn't happened despite one of us watching most of the time. We got them back down this morning to find them very quiet. However (not knowing the first thing about pigeons) fed them some water from a teaspoon in an attempt to rehydrate them. This must have done some good as within 20 minutes or so they were flapping wings and pecking me and looked brighter.

I have so many questions, sorry.

As I live in Spain there are no rescue centres that I know of (they struggle to care for their dogs here). Does anyone know how I can get help?

Assuming I can't, what can I do to get them to eat? 

What should I give them? I tried ready brek but not interested despite using a baby bottle with a slit cut in the nipple 

I'm not sure how old they are but from internet photos between 2 and 3 weeks.

Thank you everyone in advance.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a pic of the babies so we can see how old they are?

You don't cut a slit in the nipple of the bottle. You cut the nipple shorter and cover the opening with the rubber from a balloon or the finger of a rubber glove in which a hole has been cut.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Thank you Jay3*

I am trying to get a photo on now so I hope it works. I have also got a syringe now so will try that. I still can't get them to take anything voluntarily so I have used a small dropper to put some very runny ready brek in but have probably only got a teaspoon in each. I have never handled a bird before and am scared of hurting them but they do seem to be surprisingly strong when trying to eascape. Also, they are not making any noise except a sort of click when I approach them. The photo is taken in the only safe place I can put them, which is an air kennel, supplied by British Airways when I flew my cat over from the UK. Thank you for helping.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54378&stc=1&d=1498408136


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*More questions*

Could you tell me how old you think they are? One is noticeably larger than the other. Then what I should be feeding them, how to do it correctly and how often? Please bear in mind I am in Spain and getting hold of pigeon food is going to be nearly impossible as they are seen as pests here. Thank you, I am doing my best for them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are probably a couple of weeks old. Please don't put anything runny in their beak, as they are easily aspirated. It isn't a pigeon formula that we use here, it's a parrot and cage bird formula, but can be used for pigeons. 

It would be easier at this age to hand feed them frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. You want them warm.......not hot.
This is how you would do that.

If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.

You can feed them about 30 peas, probably about 3 times a day. You would see the crop go up when you feed them, (like a holding pouch on their chest). You want it to be like a soft pillow, but not hard and firm. You let that pouch go back down before feeding again. So you would probably feed them about every 5 or 6 hours. The peas do hold some moisture so that helps to give them some water, but you can teach them to drink by gently dipping their beak into a small dish of water, but not over the nostrils. Keep doing that and they will eventually learn. After feeding them a few times, they will start to recognize the peas as food, and should eventually start trying to pick them up by themselves. After feeding them for a few days, start to leave some peas in with them so they can practice.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Peas*

Thank you again. I am now defrosting peas and as soon as I can I will give you an update. I hope I haven't done them any harm so far.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't think you have done any harm. The ready brek is a good idea, but just not watery. Should be more like pudding, and you still need to be careful not to aspirate them. There are other ways to feed them, but at this age they are so close to weaning, and the peas are easier. Pigeons don't gape to have you feed them. In nature they put their beak into the beak of the adult to be fed. So you need to open their beak as they won't. They are also scared, and view you as a predator which is why they cluck at you when you go near them. For pigeons most things are predators, who want to kill them and eat them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Cute! Thank you for helping them!


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Update*

Good morning. Well, my babies had some peas last yesterday and made it through the night. They have had a breakfast of peas this morning and were a lot calmer and you're right, peas are a lot easier! Will they be ok just having peas at this age or should I give anything else? Again thanks for your advice Jay3, I followed it exactly and found it invaluable.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They will be fine on peas as they are almost ready to be weaned. Once they begin to view them as a food source, you can leave some with them so they can begin to practice picking them up on their own. You can also sprinkle some seed around them and let them practice with that. A pigeon/dove mix would be good. They are curious little creatures and will check things out and try to pick them up, so in time will be picking them up on their own. Try introducing them to water by gently dipping their beaks, but not over the nostrils. And leave a small crock of water with them. In time they will learn. Good job!


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Good news*

Glad to hear they will be ok on peas for the next few days. They were quite enthusiastic during their last feed!

Sorry to be a pest but could you give me a timeline on what I can expect i.e. At what age should they feed themselves and what age should they start to fly etc?

We have to find somewhere bigger to keep them as they don't have a lot of space at the moment and I worry that they won't be able to stretch their wings. Also, it is very hot here at the moment, about 34 degrees some days. I am keeping a fan running during daylight hours to try to make sure they don't overheat and Simon plans to make some changes to some space this coming weekend so any tips would be appreciated.

They are not showing much interest in water unless I offer it on a spoon when they will take a little drop or two, is this ok? I have been dipping their beaks to try to encourage them.

I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future but for now thank you


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They will practice flying at about a month old. First they will just flap their wings and helicopter in place. It's cute to watch.
They all learn to eat at different rates. Some hand fed babies will get spoiled and want you to continue to feed them. We have had members come on here with babies who are 3 months old, and still refusing to eat unless they are hand fed. My babies learn to pick at seed early while still in the nest box, because I keep a dish of seed and one of water in there for the parents to eat, which shows the babies how to do it. They learn from watching the adults. When I had my first 6 babies and was feeding them, I put a 3 week old down on a towel that happen to have seed sprinkled on it for an older baby. I just put him down to feed another bird, but while down there he picked up and ate a lot of seed and filled his crop. I never expected him to do that as he was so young. So you just never know, but at 3 or 4 weeks you can start introducing them to seed and see what they do. 
I don't remember............where do you keep them?


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

They are currently still in our cats air kennel which is where the photo was taken. We are thinking of moving them to the laundry (which is a separate building). It is a good size and they could easily fly in there. I'm thinking build in some perches but keep chicken wire over the window for now, but keep the window open for fresh air. It's a large space and above all safe for them to do a little exploring. What do you think?


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

Just to add to the previous post. I have just given them the third feed of the day. They are both just picking the peas up by themselves if I put them one at a time on the towel on my lap! I'm really pleased! This must mean progress?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It sounds good except that chicken wire is not safe. Rats walk right through it, and raccoons will tear through it. They will both come in after the birds and kill them. Something like a heavy gauge hardware cloth would work though.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*One final question (for today at least!)*

Jay, is is possible for a pigeon baby to overeat or will it just stop when the crop is full?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The first time my baby gobbled up all those seeds, he ate too much, filled his crop, and it didn't empty. I had to give warmed baby apple sauce with a little warm water added, and very gently message his crop to get it to empty. So yes, when first learning they can pig out and over stuff the crop. Just don't put enough down for them to do that. Later on they won't do that.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Amount of food*

Should I increase the amount of peas the babies are having as they get bigger? Feeding 30, 3 times a day to each one but I get the feeling they are starving at the start of each meal and as they are picking the peas up by themselves they are looking for more at the end of the feed. Are they having enough quantity and all the nutrients they need? They are much improved and quite feisty!

We will make sure we don't use anything that rats can get through (we don't have racoons here) when we get their new accommodations ready. We hardly see any rats that aren't dead as the cat is an excellent ratter, although he brings them home for me as gifts occasionally.

We will get the best seed possible by the weekend.

Thanks Jay.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Their crops should feel like soft pillows when done. Can you post a picture of them after they been fed to show the crops? Not holding them. Them just sitting. If they are still hungry give them a few more. The amount of food will grow as they do of course.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Photo - sorry for the delay*

Hi again,

I have a few questions again, sorry.

We have now moved the babies to their new accommodation, they have just had their lunch in there and don't seem to be to stressed by the move. We took your advice and have covered the window with a sort of metal mesh (even flys can't get through it!

I will attach a photo at the end of this post taken today just after lunch so hopefully the crops are full enough. Please let me know if you think they are having enough food. There is a lump on each birds beak that I am really concerned about? Could you please give me your opinion as the vet we use for our other pets wouldn't even return my call concerning my pigeons. The lump is as hard as the beak and doesn't seem to bother them.

I can't find dove and pigeon seed mix in the pet shops here so I have bought a bag of probiotic parrot and cockatiel mix, photo below also. Is this ok to feed them and should it be soaked first? How much should they have and how much longer should they stay on just peas? They are both feeding themselves now. I give them a bowl each so I can make sure they both get the same.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That mix has stuff that I don't think they can eat because of being too large. A wild bird feed mix with some things added would be okay also. Add some split peas, lentils and a bit of safflower, maybe a bit of brown rice. You can mix your own feed. 
If they are eating enough on their own, then you don't need to feed the peas, but they do need to be able to drink on their own. Are they drinking? 

The lumps on their beaks look like pox, which they would get usually from being bitten by an infected mosquito. If it is pox then it will probably get worse, and if they can't eat because of it, then they will need to be hand fed again until they get through it. Very good handwashing before and after handling them. It is very contagious to other birds. Was the cage left outside at night?


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

The cage has never been left out and I don't understand how they've got it apart from there are a lot of mosquitoes this time of year in Spain. The larger one had the lump when we found him and being ignorant regarding pigeons we thought it was trauma from the fall. What is it treated with? Will they just get over it by themselves?

I am nowhere near a pet store. Can I take the big bits out or leave them on peas until I get some wild bird seed?

They are not really drinking properly from the water dish. When I give the peas I leave a little warm water so the peas are wet. Should I leave the dried lentils, rice etc until they can drink properly.

I am very scared that they won't get better with the pox. What do I do?

Thank you Jay.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't feed dry food until they drink on their own. They need enough water in their crop to be able to digest the food, or it will just pack in their crop. The water in the peas is not enough for them to eat dry seeds. If they can pick up seed, then they should be able to pick up the peas. Try just giving them the peas and see if they will pick them up on their own. Then teach them to drink water by gently dipping the beak into a small crock of water, but not over the nostrils. Keep doing this and they will learn.
There is nothing to treat pox. There are vaccines so they don't get it, but once they have it, you just need to give supportive care till the virus passes in a few weeks.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Thanks Jay*

They already pick up all their peas themselves, which is why I bought seed but until I see them help themselves to water I'll continue with peas.

Can they make a full recovery from pox? They seem quite well at the moment?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they usually survive, unless it goes inside or deforms their beak, they can survive with supportive care. Then they are immune, at least to that strain of pox. It's just getting them through the virus. Sometimes they can get many of those lesions, and sometimes not many. They will in time dry up and fall off. Keep trying to get them to drink.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*An update regarding my babies*

Hi, all seems to be going ok with the baby rescue pigeons. But I have a couple more questions.

One pigeon seems to drink water quite well. The other will follow my finger into the water bowl but just seems to splash about. Because of this I still feed them peas and a little sweet corn. Surely he/she should be drinking by now?

They have pox. The one who drinks has them on his beak and both lower eyelids. The eyelid ones are a sort of yellow and look as if they have puss in them. This didn't happen to the first one on his beak. The other bird has fewer pox - just one on the beak and one on the head. They look awful (not to mention painful) but it doesn't seem to stop either of them developing. When I go in to them now they fly to me (which is so cute) and easily feed themselves. I would like to put them on a wild bird seed mix which I have bought ready as it must contain more vitamins etc which they might need to fully recover but I am concerned about the one that doesn't drink so well. I have tried a few sprinkled seeds and they pick them up easily.

If you think it's ok to give some seeds how much should I give them? I don't want either of them to develop any other problems. I have become incredibly attached to them in the last 12 days.

Thank you. I will post another photo after their lunch.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you gently dip his beak into the water, but not over the nostrils? He will learn by watching the other one as well. Let them have seed and see how they do. As far as vitamins, seeds are low in vitamins anyway. They do have other things though. They should get a bird vitamin that you can add to the water a couple of times a week. Give them the seed and see how they do. Watch to see if he drinks after eating. If not, dip his beak into the water. Easy to get attached to baby pigeons isn't it?


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

Hi Jay, sorry I can't get the photos to upload but will keep trying to get them to you tomorrow.

So, it is now 9.00 pm here and they have just had their last feed of the day. They ate all the usual peas and sweet corn and I gave each of them a dish with a teaspoon of the seed mix and they finished that as well. 

The one with the pox on both his lower eyelids is worrying me. He squeaks constantly while feeding and both his wings are sort of twitching. After he ate everything this evening he sat in my lap but still twitching his wings and squeeking. Does this mean something or is it a sign of another illness? We call him Fiesty as he has always been the bolshier of the two. The other one ate everything also, but calmly without squeeking or twitching his wings. Any idea what's the matter with Fiesty?

The hank you again, you've been so helpful and I really don't think we'd have got this far without your advice. Jules.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually it's the quiet one I would wonder about. Acting the way the squeaky one does is normal. They get very excited when they are anticipating being fed. They do twitch their wings and squeak a lot. That's how they act to get the attention of the parent to feed them. That's often the one who gets most of the food. Nice that they ate the seed. How much do you feed them?


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Photo of Fiestys pox*

Hi Jay, I have attached a photo of Fiestys face. As you can see, despite the poor quality he has pox around his eyes as well as his beak. I have noticed that he is not such a competent flyer as his sibling. Could this be because he can't see properly? Although I will try to take a better photo later her also has a lump on his head which is not the same as the other pox although it is getting bigger and is the only one of his lumps to come through feathers. It is a solid cream coloured lump. He looks awful but he has a voracious appetite and eats very quickly then steals from his sibling. He is still doing the high pitched squeeking and wing trembling all through his meals and continues afterwards. The other one only squeaks when I first go in but is eating well and flys brilliantly.

Could you let me have your thoughts please about the lumps please?

I dip beaks into water several times a day and Fiesty understands and can drink I still haven't seen anything except splashing from the other one.

Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Of course if he can't see well, he won't be able to fly very well. 
I think any bumps he gets at this point will be from the pox.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Really need advice*

Hello Jay,

Sorry to disturb again but the lump on Fiestys head is growing. It's not the same as the other pox. Tonight he doesn't seem to want to eat with much enthusiasm although he has had a little. I will post photos below. On a lighter note the last one is of his sibling who decided the best place to fligh to was my head!

Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Awww...............very cute pic. 
The lump is more than likely pox. How does his throat look?
And you are not bothering me. If you have questions, better to ask them. Please don't think you are bothering us.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

Thank you for the speedy response Jay. These two have really got under my skin and I love them dearly, I would hate anything to happen to either of them. Fiesty looks really poorly and not knowing pigeons very well (although I'm learning fast) I'm struggling to see how he can get through this. I have tried to open his beak to look tonight but I can't do it. I'm scared of knocking the other pox on his head and face and from what I've read, they must be left intact until they dry and fall off? Both birds have no smell at all. I've read that they produce an awful smell with other diseases or if the pox virus has gone internal. Is that correct?

Fiesty doesn't fly very well but the other one (we have called him/her Flighty) flys very well and Fiesty seems to cling to her and follow her around.

As they are both eating wild bird seeds now do they still need peas or should I just leave seed with them? From what I've seen they stop eating when they've had enough.

Again, thank you for the invaluable advice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great that they are both eating on their own. If they are eating and drinking enough, then you can stop giving the peas. Just watch to make sure they are eating and drinking well before stopping.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*More problems with Fiesty*

Hi again,

Today I noticed that Fiesty is doing the wing shaking thing even if I'm not there. Also, he has a sore on the side of his face and a lump on the edge of his beak, which according to the photos on the internet, could mean that the pox has gone internal? Could you have a look at the photo I have attached and let me know what you think? Thank you, Jules.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The poor baby. He is so cute. Having it on the beak is common. If it goes inside the beak, that is not good. Will have to watch and see what it does. It may not go inside. Pox on the beak can damage the beak and misshape it. I have seen where it took most of the beak off and the poor thing couldn't eat on his own. That doesn't always happen. He also has it on his ear. If it goes inside then it would probably be painful. That could be bothering him. How I hate mosquitoes!. All you can do is wait and watch to see how badly it affects him. I'm sorry I can't tell you something better than that. Make sure he is getting enough to eat, or keep up the peas. They will be through it eventually.


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## Jules&Simon (Jun 24, 2017)

*Fiesty*

Thanks for your reply Jay.

The sore spot on his ear is really irritating him and he is rubbing his face on his wing. Is there anything I could safely apply to stop the irritation? I so hope he makes it, he is really friendly and a lovely chap. His appetite is still quite good and he is having peas three times a day and I am leaving seed with them. I am also giving them vitamin D and E in fresh water. If he survives this, how long will it take to show some improvement? It just seems to be getting worse. If it goes inside is there any treatment I can get for him? Thanks Jay.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There is no treatment for pox. Some people try different things to dry up the lesions, and some vets think that doesn't help and could make it worse. I feel sorry for him too. 
It can take anywhere from a couple of weeks to maybe 6 weeks depending on how bad it is.


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