# squab trapped, didn't eat when dad came



## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

Hi all!

I was hoping for some help. I have a baby pigeon in my balcony. It must be 15 days old. Today in the morning I noticed that it was exploring the balcony walking around and looking fine (quite aggresive with me- first standing up and then flapping his wings). Before I left it had gone under some wires and was moving there around a bit. Generally I had noticed since yesterday that it left the nest and went and sat on the corner of the balcony, just next to the nest, but not in the nest. I thought that this moving around was normal. 

However, when I came back in the evening, the baby was still where I had left it in the morning, behind the wires. At first I didn't think that it was trapped, but then I noticed that it had really stayed there all day from the droppings. Then dad came as usual at around 8.30 to feed it, but did not feed it- he made some noise and left. At that point I realised that there was something wrong with the baby. 

I then tried to touch it and open its beak to see if it has canker, but it didn't let me and it continuously flapped its wings. Then I saw blood on my hands from the flapping!  I guess it's hurt somewhere in the wings, but I am too scared to touch it now. I know I may sound stupid but I noticed that there were a lot of tiny insects (?) - black and round- that I don't have any idea what they are and I don't want them on me. What can I do now? 

So here are my questions:

1. what can these tiny insects be? If it is nothing serious or contagious, then I am OK. 

2. do I need to feed the baby? and if so, what? as we are leaving this week for 3 weeks, it will be impossible to take the baby inside and hand-feed it until it becomes an adult. 

3. what shall I do with the blood under its wing?

4. Is the standing up whenever it sees us normal? 

5. does the hair on its head look OK? does it generally look OK to you? (I am attaching a picture). I am really concerned

Many many thanks in advance!

Christina


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Looks normal from this side. Don't worry--just wash your hands. Can you hold its wings up and inspect where the blood is coming from?

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Christina,

The baby is adorable, can you bring it inside for now? Please find a safe and warm spot for it, in a box with a towel or paper towels, and keep it out of drafts and in a quiet area.

1. what can these tiny insects be? If it is nothing serious or contagious, then I am OK. 
They are either mites or lice, they won't hurt you just wash your hands well, after holding the baby. 
2. do I need to feed the baby? and if so, what? as we are leaving this week for 3 weeks, it will be impossible to take the baby inside and hand-feed it until it becomes an adult. 
If the father does not come back to feed the baby and the baby has an injury that requires some intervention we can try to locate some help, but yes the baby would need to be fed.
3. what shall I do with the blood under its wing?
Check and see exactly where it is hurt and what kind of wound it is, can you take a picture of it. You can put Neosporin on the wound
4. Is the standing up whenever it sees us normal? 
Yes, it is just in defense mode, protecting itself, the baby will not hurt you.
5. does the hair on its head look OK? does it generally look OK to you? (I am attaching a picture). I am really concerned
Yep, those are its baby fuzz that it started out life with, which is now being replaced by feathers.


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

Hi Trees Gray and Pidgey

thanks a lot for the replies.


It's very late now here (2 in the morning), so it will not be easy to find anything to feed it. the last time I am sure it was fed was at noon. Dad however could have come anytime and fed it again. The only thing I know is that when he came at 20:00, the baby wasn't fed. 

what can I feed it and how? Will it survive the night without food? I believe that the father will come back in the morning. He usually comes at 7ish. Shall I wait until tomorrow morning?


3. what shall I do with the blood under its wing?
Check and see exactly where it is hurt and what kind of wound it is, can you take a picture of it.

I cannot see anything right now. The blood was not that much, though. I was just shocked at that time. I will try to find the wound.


Yes, it is just in defense mode, protecting itself, the baby will not hurt you.

I was scared that there was something wrong with it. 


Yep, those are its baby fuzz that it started out life with, which is now being replaced by feathers.
[/QUOTE]

Good to know!

I am also attaching another photo from behind. 

Many thanks

Christina


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Christina, 

It's very late here too in Germany, 2:24 A.M. 
Are you anywhere near? If you were in Britain, it should be after 1 A.M.

Temperature is 20 deg Celsius or 68 degress Fahrenheit here in Cologne. Cool, partly cloudy, not too windy outside. 

Reason I mention temperature is that the latest picture of the chick from the rear shows him/her looking very fluffed up, the way pigeons do if they are sick and want to conserve body heat. If they are not eating enough.

See you're off-line. Did chick fluff up because you were near? I know you said earlier it stood up to make itself look bigger and less helpless when you approached. I think males tend to do this more than females, but don't quote me on this, and anyways the sex of the chick is probably irrelevant right now.

If you check here again tonight, maybe you can put something to keep him warm. An overhead lamp, where he can move away from the heat if he wishes, or some socks of rice or beans heated in the microwave, or whatever else anyone may recommend. 

Got to get some sleep now. Can you weigh him with a digital scale, or see if his crop is full _when parent isn't around_? 

Oh: I might be wrong about the chick being cold. Chicks I handled were indoors, last spring and summer. But sick birds can use some extra heat when they use up a lot of energy and resources fighting infection. Check lists in resources section. 

Maybe you already have it inside. Not sure from your post. I slept with some sick birds cupped in a hand to keep them warm during the night, with myself propped in ways so I wouldn't roll over on them. I'm a night owl and light sleeper until the hours when normal people rise. Not to be recommended to heavy sleepers.

Larry


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

Hi Larry,

I am in the Netherlands. The baby looks always fluffed up. Or at least everytime I check. His body is quite warm, much warmer than my hand. What kind of infections? Could it be that dad did not feed it because he actually has an infection? I read somewhere in this forum that when babies have infections the parents stop feeding them. What other signs shall I look for? 

Christina


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Did he feel heavy or light when you picked him up?

This is where experience fails me: Birds have a higher metabolism than we do, and a higher temperature. But a well-insulated bird, I think, shouldn't feel "hot." It's feathers should insulate it. You don't feel the warmth of you hand through a feather pillow, do you? But maybe a two-week-old bird doesn't have that much insulation. I can see from the photo that is still has a lot of skin showing on its neck. Feathering on neck is sparse, and normal.

What day do you leave for vacation? In case we need to arrange someone else to help out. I don't want to "volunteer" anyone, but there are a few PT members around.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I am not a rehabber nor do I advise on meds.

You mentioned that the dad feeds the baby when he comes in the mornings - WHEN the baby was by the nest. Any way of getting the baby back by the nest and keeping him from getting behind those wires?

I'm sure our experienced members will want more information about that wound. They can also recommend what to use for the bugs. I would assume that a lot depends on what you can get.

Wishing you and the baby all the best!

Shi


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

When I held it it was really warm in my hand. I guess it doesn't have any feathers yet at its underside. 

I am leaving this sunday, but I really cannot travel at all tomorrow; I have many things to do and unfortunately do not have the time. 

So, what am I doing now? I need to go to bed. Shall I give it something to eat or wait 4 hours until dad comes and see if he feeds it?


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

Dear Shi,

many thanks for your message. I already got rid of the wires. The baby is back in his nest now. Hope everything goes well until tomorrow. 

Christina


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Christina,

Do you speak Dutch/Flemish/Niederlandisch?

Belgium is the country with the most pigeon racers and fanciers per population (per capita). There are some excellent pigeon forums, and many speak English. Most are clubs or websites for pigeon fanciers, that I know of. My wife speaks Flemish, mine is not so good. That's why I stick with PT mostly.

Pet shops in Belgium and I'm sure Netherlands have lots of pigeon products. Not many antibiotics. Need vet for most antibiotics.

You can buy _Spartrix_ for canker there, _Ardap-Plus_ (white powder, German product) for any exterior bugs. 

Today is Saturday, so you need to buy anything you need today. Don't think shops open Sundays in Netherlands, but don't know. 

I think a good liquid vitamin (for pigeons) boost would be good for the squeaker. 

Make sure papa pigeon can get to where the chick is, like Mr. Squeaks said. 

I have some meds, but problem would be getting them to you in time. No car. Have in-laws coming from Antwerp for visit tomorrow, but mother-in-law very opposed to pigeons in her vicinity. Freaks out. Would be ideal if you were on way. If you are on the way, maybe they could drop something off when they return tomorrow evening. They'll be tired, and I can't "volunteer" them. Brother-in-law is a forester, though, and he and Paps have encyclopedic knowledge of plants, roots, and such.

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

You're leaving Sunday, tomorrow.

If you are on the way from Antwerp to Cologne (over Aachen/Aken), PM me address if you wish, if papa pigeon still not feeding. Maybe in-laws can be convinced to pick-up. Maybe not. I get determine route for them over internet. Can't speak for them, though. I might become ex-in-law (as in dead. Just joking. They're wonderful people. But they like to eat birds, also).

Better idea: email or PM *myrpalom*, PT member. She's overworked with feeding and re-habbing 700 pigeons in Belgium. Maybe she has some ideas. 

Larry


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

*update*

the baby has been doing fine today. was fed several times by both mom and dad, the throat is clear-no traces of canker. There is however something that bothers me. Why does it leave the nest and goes and sits all day somewhere else close by? is this a normal behavior? 

Many thanks

ps. I think that we have stressed it out too much . Is that possible?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

christina_t said:


> the baby has been doing fine today. was fed several times by both mom and dad, the throat is clear-no traces of canker. There is however something that bothers me. Why does it leave the nest and goes and sits all day somewhere else close by? is this a normal behavior?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> ps. I think that we have stressed it out too much . Is that possible?


The baby or the parents leave the nest and sit elsewhere? It's pretty
common for parents to go sit somewhere close by to the nest when the babies get old enough to keep warm on their own, yet not ready to fledge. Guess they get 'babied-out' kind of like humans...

fp


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

hi fp

the baby leaves the nest. the last couple of days it has been sitting all day close by the nest but not in the nest.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi christina,

I'm glad to hear the baby is getting fed again. 

I sure hope this baby remains well fed and safe, until you return. I hope there are no predators around and that history doesn't repeat itself, if this is the same balcony as before?

It might be best for the safety and welfare of this baby to locate a rehabber, perhaps get this youngster to Larry.


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

Hi 

It is the same balcony, but haven't seen any ravens around for a while. Thus, I guess it must be safe here. However, I am still worried about it; nobody has answered me whether it is normal behavior for a squab to leave its nest and sit somewhere else in the balcony close-by. It doesn't seem to want to stay in the nest. Could there be anything wrong with it? 

Christina


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Christina,
Mabe it's trying to get away from the bugs you mentioned in your post. It's hard to tell about the nest location ...could be the baby is looking for sun or to get out of the sun.
It's a very cute fancy looking baby.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

christina_t said:


> Hi
> 
> It is the same balcony, but haven't seen any ravens around for a while. Thus, I guess it must be safe here. However, I am still worried about it; nobody has answered me whether it is normal behavior for a squab to leave its nest and sit somewhere else in the balcony close-by. It doesn't seem to want to stay in the nest. Could there be anything wrong with it?
> 
> Christina


I don't think there's anything wrong. Judging by the size/age of the baby in pictures, it's getting old enough to start exploring a little. Mine at this age do that. Climb/fall/stumble  over the edge of the nest bowl and then climb/fall/stumble back in.  I think he's ok as long as there's no where for him to fall off of the balcony........


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Christina,

Didn't answer your question earlier, had visitors, also don't know for sure the answer. 

Birds are individuals, so we can only generalize. Some kids walk, talk earlier. Some of us play the piano, some don't. Can't say at what year so-and-so will play the piano. Of course you know this, but sometimes we lose perspective because we think other creatures operate only on instinct, are programmed precisely, don't reflect and act on personal tastes and choices and druthers. Some pigeons go for uncooked, raw peanuts; *Wieteke* and *Pidgiepoo*, my rescued and hand-raised pigeons, wouldn't touch them (didn't need to).

*Blackbirds* make the babies leave the nest because the nest after a while becomes very obvious to predators: 
accumulated poop, sometimes under the tree; 
flies on the poop (buzzing around); 
parents may want to re-use the nest site in the future, so keep predators guessing; 
a site safe for small birds changes its secrecy status when chicks are bigger.

Parents often stay away when not feeding. Squab is almost as big as the parent, and feathered. Too many birds in one spot indicate that one of them is young, inexperienced, and maybe can't fly yet. A solitary bird, regardless of age, once feathered, seemingly healthy, won't appear attractive to a predator. Predators _can't afford to expend energy_ needlessly on things that they can't or think they can't catch. 

Parents keep chick under observation. Chick gets very excited when parent shows for feeding. Too much of a show after a while. Chick needs to develop interest in surroundings, learn, get bored staying in the nest all day. Curiosity overcomes shyness, chick ventures forth.

I watched our Wieteke go through this whole process. You can't keep a healthy chick indoors, at home forever. They venture forth in increments. First night Wieteke (around a month old) slept perched atop the window which opened inward like a door. Next night same. Daytime sat across street at same level. Night or two later spent across street, within view of me on the bed. Then down the street a ways. Then a few flights with neighboring birds, one or two of them also squeakers. Every morning wanted out at the crack of dawn, back a few hours later around nine-ish for a snack, back in the afternoon for a meal, sometimes water, sometimes not, usually spent the night indoors. 

Also, like feral pigeon says, parents away help the baby get de-baby-fied. Who wants to stay in a boring old nest, surrounded by poop, when you can fly and hang out where the action is? 

Glad chick is doing okay. 

*Theresa/Trees Gray*,

Christine leaves for three weeks tomorrow, and getting chick not the easiest thing to accomplish. No car, very congested autobahns here, densely populated areas, much road construction. I went to the park with in-laws today, had trouble walking much, lungs congested or something. Thought I should have probably taken portable 2-kg tank of liquid oxygen with nasal cannula for supplementary oxygen. Going to pick up chick by train would be a five hour trip one way, wherever in the Netherlands she is, plus the same to return. Going to Antwerp, for example, 210 kilometers or 130 miles away, is packing, going to bus (allow ten minutes early, bus every 20 minutes during the day, 15-20 minutes to main train station 3 kilometers away, if you have ticket ahead of time, allow twenty minute buffer to wait for train which leaves every two hours, change maybe in Aachen 75 kilometers away, or in Brussels South. Fast trains, but frequent stops. Change to slow train in Brussels after 30-60 minute wait, arrive 20-45 minutes later in Antwerp. Then another bus or streetcar, another hour. I have always needed five hours minimum to go that 130 mile distance by train, and two and a half hours minimum nonstop by car, with no border controls or coffee stops, average speed 100 kph on freeway. No speed limits on some autobahns, but traffic is traffic when you inch along, in someone else's exhaust. Once, in 1983, drove the 500 kilometers/300 miles from Cologne/Köln/Koeln/Keulen/Colonia to Paris in 5 hours (7 A.M. to noon), at 160 kph/100 mph, with toll stops, in a nice BMW. Focused only on driving, no sightseeing. Then spent another hour in a taxi with boss, negotiating central Paris for appointment. 


Larry


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## christina_t (May 5, 2007)

thank you all very much. just now dad came to feed the baby and the baby returned to the nest! Thanks alot again. I hope everything goes fine while I am away. 

Christina


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Remembered something else:

Pigeons make nests of twigs. Sometimes on flat surface, sometimes not. Sometimes well-built, sometimes not (just like human dwellings).

From my observations, the twigs serve two main purposes:
1) Twigs let poops fall through living area when twigs form a bucket-shaped nest. No poops on bird's feathers means they grow out normally, and bird can eventually fly. 

Glue a bird's feathers together so that the layers don't slide over each other and provide support, flexibility, and ability to re-configure wing profile and aerodynamic shape, and the bird won't fly. 

2) Twigs on a flat surface usually form a ring-shaped fence which indicates where chick is to poop: onto or outside the twigs, but avoid pooping in the living room, the habitat space. Use the "outhouse" or "out-nest." 

When chicks are bigger and can walk, poops really pile up, and I've seen them walk all over messy, wet poops. I have observed two pairs of chicks, and they and their feet _*were always impeccably clean!*_ 

Poop acts like glue, cement, or adobe. Nests sometimes accumulate twigs, dead chicks, dried poop over generations. Parents don't use same nest spot twice in a row, but alternate, from my experience.

*Oh, and have a nice trip and vacation, Chrisitina.*

Larry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Larry,

Appreciate th explaination, sorry there is no possiblity to get the bird to you, I hope it will be okay then.


christina,

Thank for updating us. I'm glad dad is still feeding it.


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