# Pair of sick or old ducks, need advice



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

My first time requesting info on ducks.

Saw three mallard ducks, two males and a female, at the Cologne university clinic (Polyklinik Köln) where I go for weekly physiotherapy. I have been informed by a neighbor lady, who is more informed than I am about such things, that there is a hospital department that looks after sick animals on the premises, but they can be contacted only during normal business hours, and we have week-end now. This lady also told me that the cancer clinic or hospice close by (the Mildred Scheel Haus) takes care of some ducks, because she did volunteer visitations of terminally ill for many years. Frau Brunner is now very ill herself, on morphine for pain, so cannot assist other than to give me these references and advice by phone.

Problem: *female duck can barely use legs, and one male has trouble getting about also.* The second male seemed to be watching over them. I dropped a handful of mixed pigeon seeds for them, and the female drank a half cup of water I provided from a Swiss-made plastic camping cup I carry with me in my backpack.

Their plumage looks okay, although the female may be a bit underweight. Hard for me to tell. 

They moved about three or four meters onto some muddy grass nearby, out of the way, after nibbling most of the seed. 

Any idea what the problem may be for the two ducks? Old age? Bad, moldy food? Lack of vitamins and calcium?

Only decent website on ducks I have found is "Call Duck Hotline" at
http://www.callducks.net/ducksail.htm

They are an hour away from me by bus and streetcar, and I plan to get them some whole-wheat bread, with perhaps some liquid pigeon vitamins soaked into some of it, and some pigeon grit, and some water in a bowl of sorts, if they are in the same location tomorrow.

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Larry, When ever I find a duck in that condition, I start it on 22.7 tabs of baytril, one time a day and I've never had one that isn't up and walking within in 5 days. I continue the baytril for a full 10 days.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks for the advice, Charis. Don't know if I can implement it, though. Can't keep ducks in our smallish apartment (68 square meters, or about 700 square feet) with small third floor open-railed balcony. Apartment complex rules (social welfare housing) specifically state no feeding of pigeons or ducks or wild birds. Sneaking them in would draw too much attention to my other _sub rosa_ rescue activities. Wife might not appreciate it, also.

Treating them in the wild, a pill in a ball of bread, might work. You said 22.5 mgs per day, right? John D. sent me some liquid Baytril, four drops twice daily per individual bird. Would have to do a once-per-day dose. Or pulverize some cipro. Flock treatment of Baytril is 1 ml to 1 liter of water. Would the ducks tolerate the taste of one drop of Baytril per piece of bread rolled into a pill?

My health isn't the best, get fatigued easily, so catching the three ducks is probably not an option.

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

No wild life organizations that you can call?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

It's Friday evening, 6:51 P.M. (11:51 A.M. in San Antonio, Texas), and most people are getting off work or on the way home.


There is a local _Tierheim (Konrad Adenauer Tierheim),_ with volunteer dog-walkers and such, probably understaffed and under-funded -- (they wouldn't take wild pigeons a few years ago because they didn't have the space for flying-capable pigeons). I would probably have to bring the ducks in to them, if catching them were even possible. 

I will try out several approaches to the problem tomorrow.

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I sent you an email, Larry.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I have not received an e-mail from you, Charis, except for the e-mails I get informing me of posts made to threads to which have subscribed or which I have started.

So, no emails after the message saying "I sent you an email, Larry."

Technology manages to keep ahead of me. *But,* I'll probably die before "Technology" does. Then I'll be ahead. Or, maybe not. I'm confusing myself, here.

Larry


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## myrpalom (Aug 12, 2004)

Larry
I'll PM you the telephone number of my friend Sabine.
She is close to Köln.
She speeks a little English.
She might be able to inform you if there is a rehabber close to you, or another option. Anyway I hope she can help you.
Myriam


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Error regarding Baytril dosage on my part*

Mentioned in earlier post that John D sent me some Baytril with instructions on label of four drops twice daily per individual bird.

Lying in bed, thinking of procedures to undertake tomorrow (which is now today, Saturday, for an hour now), it occurred to me that the instructions were applicable to pigeons, not ducks. Label shows picture of a pigeon (posing as a duck, but a pigeon, nevertheless). Was a bit tired and out of breath when I was posting then. Bottle of Baytril is from Knox Bird Clinic (Australia?).

Myriam/Myrpalom thinks they may be afflicted with botulism.

I'll research Wikipedia for mallard ducks, for weight. Think they displace a kilo or two of water when they swim. 

Until later, 

Larry

Okay, Wikipedia says they weigh seven to eight pounds (3.2 - 3.6v kg, probably for males).


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Botulism in ducks*

Good article on botulism in ducks at this link: (WCSV: Wildlife Center of Silicon Valley)

http://www.wcsv.org/Education/Diseases/Duck_Botulism.htm

Excerpts from this website page:



> Every year, many ducks are paralyzed or die after being exposed to the toxin produced by botulinum bacterium. Clotridium Botulinum Type C (also referred to as “Limberneck Disease”) is one of the major disease problems of wild migratory ducks.





> Clotridium Botulinum Type C causes paralysis by attacking the nervous system.* It is a poisoning rather than an infection.* As the disease progresses, different levels of paralysis are observed in ducks. An early indication that a duck has been affected is its inability to fly or dive. Diarrhea may also occur. The legs are the next area where paralysis strikes. Once the legs have become paralyzed, ducks are often observed using their wings to propel themselves across the water.





> Botulism Type C spores exist in lake and pond bottoms and thrive when air temperatures rise and water and oxygen levels drop. A hot dry summer increases the probability of outbreaks.





> Ducks suffering from botulism can be saved if properly cared for. The most helpful thing rehabilitators can do for ducks with botulism in its early stage is provide them with fresh water. Antitoxins are also available but are expensive. Regulating water levels and controlling insect populations also help in the prevention of large outbreaks.


Emphasis in *bold* mine.

I also looked up Marek's disease on a different website. The above website seems more helpful than the Cornell University site.

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I tell you, Baytril will work.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*How much baytril?*

Hello* Myriam*,

Found Sabine B. in internet search, she lives in Neunkirchen, fifty miles or 80 kilometers away. She is one of the founders of Vogelnothilfe e.V. ("Emergency help for birds"), and helps out in Bonn, 28 km away. I can contact her tomorrow (later today, actually). Thanks for the tip.


Hello *Charis*,

You said *22,7 tabs *of baytril. Is this a 22,7 mg tab? I haven't used baytril before, either in liquid or in tablet form.

I have used cipro before, on pigeons.

I have a 25 ml bottle of liquid baytril, don't know the exact strength, only the "four drops per pigeon per day," which sounds like approximately one drop per 100-gram of pigeon, assuming a 400-gram healthy male adult street pigeon. 

4 drops = 0.2 ml 
1 drop = 0.05 ml
20 drops per milliliter, from a standard eye dropper or pipette, for low viscosity liquids such as water and the common solvents.
(From this weblink reference: 
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00578.htm)

For a 3 kg or 3000 gram duck, I would have to use 30 drops or 1.5 ml twice a day, or 3 ml once a day, in bread crumbs. And make sure each of the two sick ducks eat its portion of crumbs.

Or for cipro, 750 mg tablet pulverized and added to 50 cc water/karo syrup mix (30 cc water with 20 cc syrup, used maple syrup before), 0.1 ml of cipro liquid per 100 grams of bird weight. (From Reti, formula used by her vet).

I'll do some more calculating before I settle on the dose and means of dosing.

Thanks,

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Let's find out the strength of the baytril John sent you? I'll Pm him this thread.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

charis,

Knox Bird Co., in internet search, is Australian Pigeon Company. have used their _Moxydectin Plus_ (ordered from Siegel's in U.S.).


http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/



> For sour crop:
> 
> ...
> 
> • Treat bird with 3 drops Baytril twice daily


Need to get some sleep, otherwise ducks will not be getting a visit from me.

Larry


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## myrpalom (Aug 12, 2004)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Hello* Myriam*,
> Found Sabine B. in internet search, she lives in Neunkirchen, fifty miles or 80 kilometers away. She is one of the founders of Vogelnothilfe e.V. ("Emergency help for birds"), and helps out in Bonn, 28 km away. I can contact her tomorrow (later today, actually). Thanks for the tip.
> Larry


She regullary transports the very needy pigeons from Köln and Bonn to my rescue center Lapalomatriste.
Myriam


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*going to use baytril on whole wheat bread*

Hello Myriam,

I called the _Konrad Adenauer Tierheim_ (animal shelter) in Cologne, and the lady attendant said that I could call the _Feuerwehr_ (fire department) and they would pick up the ducks and bring them to an animal shelter or to a vet. 

When I rescued Pidgiepoo and his sibling, still in their nest in the flower pot someone had taken from their balcony or terrace and set on the street the last day of April 2004, a bystander with a mobil phone (cell phone, or "Handy") had already called the fire department an hour earlier, and was told they would be on the way, but it was getting late and cold and dark and the baby pigeons would die quickly from exposure. so I took them in. And on subsequent visits to this animal shelter, the man in charge of birds told me that they didn't take in pigeons because of lack of accommodations and public donations for flying pigeons, etc. So I had my doubts about turning the ducks over to them, if a vet was not available over the weekend. 

I talked with Sabine an hour ago, and she advised me to try to treat the ducks with baytril. She said that it would be better to treat them where they are, if possible. If necessary I could catch them and bring them to the animal shelter, or call the fie department, who would come for ducks but not for pigeons. She said that her scope of her group's activities did not allow for ducks (probably legal reasons, or such) but I could call her for organizing further assistance if necessary.

There was a lady in the pigeon group here who live close to where the ducks are, and i am still trying to reach her.

I am going out with some whole wheat bread, baytril in individual pipettes os each sick duck gets his share. The baytril dosage according to Sabine would be 1.5 ml per duck, twice a day. (This is also what i had calculated, and what I had posted earlier: 0.1 ml per 100 grams of bird, twice a day). Since I can get out there only once a day, she thought doubling the twice-daily dose of 1.5 ml would be too much: she recomended giving 2 ml once a day instead of 3 ml once a day. for five consecutive days. She also agreed with the liquid pigeon vitamin supplement (containing phosphorus, recommended on another website for ducks). 

I tried to call you a few minutes ago, Myriam, to tell you this, so I could get to the ducks sooner, but get an invalid phone number message. 

i will be here a few more minutes, should you have any contradictory advice or opinions or warnings to give me concerning my plan of action.

Larry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Have been following this thread, Larry, and wish ALL THE BEST for the ducks!!

Sending Healing HUGS and hope for a happy ending !!

Thanks for all you are doing for these ducks!!

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Hello Myriam,
> 
> i called the _Konrad Adenauer Tierheim_ (animal shelter) in Cologne, and the lady attendant said that I could call the _Feuerwehr_ (fire department) and they would pick up the ducks and bring them to an animal shelter or to a vet.
> 
> ...


Larry, My avian vet friend does recommend giving baytril as a one dose rather than 2, in most cases. I have followed her advise for years.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*False alarm?*

*Synopsis: a couple of lame ducks have been tenants of the hospital grounds for the past eight years. * I may have been alarmed by crippled ducks, rather than by newly sick ones.

The latest news:

I went by bus and streetcar to the Polyklinik, met Hilde there who went by bike, at 3:00 P.M. (It is now 7 P.M. here). Spent an hour and a half looking all over the hospital grounds, but didn't see the three ducks together, nor did we specifically see the female duck. We did see one male mallard, with a limp, and he may have been the afflicted male we saw yesterday. He could fly quite well. We asked several passersby, but none had seen or noticed the ducks today. Two men delivering hot suppers in large wheeled containers had seen the ducks a few days before. We requested those with whom we spoke to leave a message with the staff of the clinic I go to for physiotherapy, which is where I had seen the ducks yesterday (for the first time in my many visits there over the past year or so).

Fr. Brunner, who for more than ten years after her bout with cancer did voluntary visits to the Dr. Mildred Scheel Haus, a clinic or hospice for the terminally ill, had told us that she thought the ducks "belonged" to this clinic.

So, we checked with two of the nurses on duty, both of whom knew Fr. Brunner. 

They knew of the ducks, or of some ducks. There was a female who walked funny, and they had at first suspected she had cancer, since the Russian nurse said that everyone they come across there has cancer, and after a while you have a certain perspective, a narrow vision, of the world around you. Everyone is dying of cancer. But, they would look at the ducks more carefully now, and with a different perspective. They have my name and number, and they know they can contact me also through Fr. Brunner.

The ducks, it seems, *have been around for eight years* or more, and stay because they are fed. They are wild ducks; they don't actually "belong" to the clinic, but are well-known. The female has always been lame, but since I have expressed the opinion that the ducks may be sick (or sicker than normal), the nurses will keep a sharp look-out. I told them I have baytril antibiotic, to give with whole wheat bread, and some vitamins. I later thought I may have given the wrong impression to the Russian nurse, who marveled that a few drops of antibiotic would erase years of a crippling disability in the female mallard (a result of language translation problems). 

The female duck has had many babies near the pond of the hospice, and seems happiest or most content when on the nest. They once saw a fox, and have heard tremendous nocturnal rackets several times when they heard (the fox crunching bones with his jaws? -- translation?). Sometimes cats hunted there. They were never sure which of the two males was the father of the ducklings.

The nurses said the the ducks could fly quite well, after I expressed my fears that the ducks couldn't access fresh water at the pond. There was a gate I hadn't before noticed from the outside. I believe the ducks could get through between the vertical bars (approximately six inches or fifteen centimeters apart, estimated from a short distance away.) It seems a fox can get through.

Since I didn't see the female duck this time, she may have been sleeping, or resting under some bushes.

*Yesterday,* the ducks seemed to have *good plumage*, and the males looked good in weight. The female was not as broad in the chest, but since it was warm and sunny, short shirt-sleeve weather, she woulod not have been fluffed up unless really sick.

The eyes of the two males looked good, they were alert. The female seemed more tired, or ready to take a brake, and less inclined to walk and move about than the others. One of the males would gently dart his head at her to encourage her to "get a move on" when I or others (passersby) got too close. four out of five passersby didn't notice or remark the ducks only a few feet from them. They had their own concerns, it seemed to me at the time; they seemed lost in their thoughts. Today, upon further reflection, it seems to me that it could be that they were so used to seeing the ducks around that it was no longer noteworthy for them. 

The female duck's eyes were harder to judge; she may have had her third eyelid partially covering the pupil.

The female drank a lot of water, a half cup, and wanted to tuck her head under her wing. She laid her head and neck flat on the ground (or on the concrete curb/kerb) when nibbling small seeds on the grass at a slightly elevated level in front of her. I would not venture to say that she had a limp neck, though. She could stand and walk on both legs, but it is as though her right leg was somewhat useless. It was as if a man wt a stiff knee had to swing his leg into position, and then help himself up by supporting his weight with his arms, and then maneuvering into a walking position. 

The possible good news may be that there is no life-threatening emergency, no ongoing crisis. The flip side, the bad news, is that the crippling, gimpy walk is not a short-term thing, something that is not much more than a minor nuisance, soon to be forgotten. The female did not enjoy walking much. 

I was prepared with my drops of baytril. I had sandwich-ready sliced whole wheat bread (_Vollkornbrot_) labeled "American Sandwich," and some rye bread. I had three 3-ml clear plastic pipettes (with a squeeze bulb at the upper end, in case there are other types of pipettes out there), one marked with green -- for the male -- plastic electrician's insulating tape at the correct dosage on the scaled cylinder, and one pipette with blue tape -- for the blue tail markings of the female; and one unmarked pipette for the liquid vitamins. wanted to be sure each sick duck received his or her correct respective dosages. I was going to put drops on a crumb, not so much that it would be possibly distasteful, and try to toss the crumb to a particular duck before one of the others could get it. Thought I had an elegant solution, but it remains untried.

*The one male mallard I did see today*, at the pond of the hospice, had a bit of a limp to his walk, and may have been the same impaired male I saw yesterday. He could fly quite well. I saw him walk only a few steps. I was then ready to make a video clip, but he preened and stayed put. The pond is about a couple of meters wide, a half meter deep, has some algae in it, is posted as non-potable water, has five or more short gushing fountains at each of the bends of the S-shape. So, the water is aerated, recycled, but apparently healthy enough. This duck ate a half slice of bread which I broke up for him and tossed, then he lost interest. So they apparently are fed well enough, and find plants of sorts to eat. There is a variety of greenery around the hospital. 

My bags, my emergency kit, are packed in case I get the call.

Thanks everyone for your help and time (and patience).

Larry


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## aussiegirl (Feb 24, 2008)

Larry_Cologne said:


> My first time requesting info on ducks.
> 
> Saw three mallard ducks, two males and a female, at the Cologne university clinic (Polyklinik Köln) where I go for weekly physiotherapy. I have been informed by a neighbor lady, who is more informed than I am about such things, that there is a hospital department that looks after sick animals on the premises, but they can be contacted only during normal business hours, and we have week-end now. This lady also told me that the cancer clinic or hospice close by (the Mildred Scheel Haus) takes care of some ducks, because she did volunteer visitations of terminally ill for many years. Frau Brunner is now very ill herself, on morphine for pain, so cannot assist other than to give me these references and advice by phone.
> 
> ...


Hi Larry, 
try going to this site :www.duckrescue.org

Heres another duck site:
http://www.duckhealth.com/duckhlth.html

also theres some duck rescue people who are members of the chicken site :http://www.backyardchickens.com/
I used to have white mallards until they got too noisy and we had water restrictions as well.
I hope the links help you. Im sorry i cant help you with the problem at hand.
I hope they have a good outcome for you.
Its nice that you are trying to help them.
Helen


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Thanks for web-links for dusk rescue and help*

Thanks Helen,

I've saved these web-links as bookmarks under my Pigeons/Ducks folder.

I knew there was some good info out there, but I kept running into government and university sites which are more interested in in keeping ducks healthy so they wind up on your plate instead of in your heart. Hard for them to go both places. The commercial and food processing sites don't give advice for treatments and/or therapies which cost money or time for individual ducks.

There should be a way to eliminate or weed out some of these results by stipulating in a search that you want results which have a priority to help the bird, not necessarily your pocketbook. Don't know how you would do a boolean search for such results. 

I now think that the duck(s) were crippled some time ago, rather than just recently sick. I will be watching for them also. 

Larry


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