# How Long is Too Long? (Pigeon Toenails)



## valeri

Okay, I've done some searches and read the warnings here about pigeons bleeding from their toes. So I don't plan to go trimming Chauncey's toenails. 

But . . . they seem to be a big long (longer than Clive's, anyway). And a few of her toes bend outward as a result. She seems to be stepping off bricks quite gingerly lately, and I don't know if she's in discomfort, or if that's how she's been all along. I should have paid more attention.

She's got plenty of bricks to perch on -- don't know that it's helping her keep her nails in check.

Should I just leave them alone? Or buy a Dremel? If I use a Dremel, do I still have to worry about bleeding? 

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## jameswaller

*toenails*



valeri said:


> Okay, I've done some searches and read the warnings here about pigeons bleeding from their toes. So I don't plan to go trimming Chauncey's toenails.
> 
> But . . . they seem to be a big long (longer than Clive's, anyway). And a few of her toes bend outward as a result. She seems to be stepping off bricks quite gingerly lately, and I don't know if she's in discomfort, or if that's how she's been all along. I should have paid more attention.
> 
> She's got plenty of bricks to perch on -- don't know that it's helping her keep her nails in check.
> 
> Should I just leave them alone? Or buy a Dremel? If I use a Dremel, do I still have to worry about bleeding?
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


i don,t know of anyone who trims pigeon toenails,,unless their is a medical reason,,sincerely james waller


----------



## sreeshs

How long are the toe nails now ? On an average size bird, I think upto 3 mm is common but I never had come across any cases of the nails getting trimmed so don't if at all at what size it is to be done. If you could post some pictures showing the position of the legs while perching/standing then we might be able to decide better.


----------



## TerriB

Several of my birds have one or more nails that tend to grow longer. I use people toenail clippers (http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/phrase/1876/nail-clippers.html). Hold the bird and the toe very securely and snip just a tiny slice at a time. Always be conservative, you can cut more but can't cut less and you don't want to hurt the bird. 

If you do accidently cut too close, apply a styptic powder which promotes blood clotting (cornstarch also works in a pinch). Press a bit of that on the bleeding site and keep the bird quiet for an hour or so.


----------



## Jay3

If my birds have nails long enough to make their toes turn, then they are too long. I also use a nail trimmer, very carefully, and as Terri has said, just a little at a time. They do have a claw trimmer they sell that is like a dremel, only a bit quieter. It's sold for dog and cat claws. It has a guard on it, but I remove it as the tiny claws of a bird could get caught in it.


----------



## mr squeaks

Some people, not wanting to use the nail trimmers, use a nail emory board to file the nails down.

Seems to work quite well and is less stressful...at least for the owner!

Love and Hugs
Shi


----------



## valeri

Thanks everyone. I ordered the pet version of the Dremel (from Amazon), just in case I go ahead and trim. But I'll see if I can take a picture of Chauncey's toes in the meantime. 

Once I get the device, How much do I file off? Add . . . straight off the tip of the nail or at a particular angle?

What type of feeling/nerves do they have in their toenails? (I'm basing this question on the bleeding concerns.)


----------



## TerriB

valeri said:


> Thanks everyone. I ordered the pet version of the Dremel (from Amazon), just in case I go ahead and trim. But I'll see if I can take a picture of Chauncey's toes in the meantime.
> 
> Once I get the device, How much do I file off? Add . . . straight off the tip of the nail or at a particular angle?
> 
> What type of feeling/nerves do they have in their toenails? (I'm basing this question on the bleeding concerns.)


I have a dremel nail trimmer for our dogs but wasn't comfortable using that amount of power on the delicate nails of a pigeon. A regular nail file can be used until you get a feel for how much to trim.

I usually trim at a slight angle rather than straight across. Their toenails are similar to cats and dogs in that there is living tissue (the quick) inside the nail. What you want to cut off is the tip which extends past the quick.


----------



## Jay3

Yes, an emery board could be used, although the clipper is quick. Just don't take too much off. Just enough so that it isn't making their toes turn, or making walking uncomfortable.


----------



## valeri

I need to get a better sense of where the quick is. I know with cats and dogs. I tried an emery board today but it was laborious and didn't take enough of the nail off. It helped a bit. Maybe I can get someone to help me with the clipping the first time . . . or really scrutinize her nails so I can see where the quick starts. I hate not knowing what I'm doing.


----------



## spirit wings

just tip them off, and do not worry about getting them short as possible and you will be ok... and so will they.


----------



## Tamara21

Valerie..hey it's me...Tamara...well I trim Petey's nails with a baby nail clipper. I tried the emory board and the dremmel and they both scared the crap out of Petey and made him pull in his feet.So I wrap him up like a burrito in a towel and grab each foot and clip just very tiny makes a big difference...but I did hit the quick this last time and the flour was able to help stop the bleeding but it scared me...although Petey didn't seem to mind.


----------



## cvarnon

I keep an eye on the nails of my birds, since they are indoor birds and don't have the wide variety of perches that outdoor birds would.
Their nails get kind of long, and then the tip chips off. They never had any problems with pieces getting caught or only partially broken. I never have cliped them.

Honestly, I prefer clippers to a dremmel. Sanding the nails down takes longer, and it seems to be more aversive to the birds. You can probably clip a whole foot in the same about of time it takes to you round down one nail with a dremmel.

If you do get to blood, pack the nail in a fine powder, like flour or cornstarch. There are actually products for that, and they are pretty much like flour. I tend to use that for big cuts too, it works really well to start the initial clot.

I wouldn't worry too much about a little blood. I've never heard of any birds bleeding to death from a toe nail. The bleeding is pretty easy to stop.

From the set up you describe, I kind of doubt your pigeons need a trimming anyway.


----------



## Jay3

cvarnon said:


> I keep an eye on the nails of my birds, since they are indoor birds and don't have the wide variety of perches that outdoor birds would.
> Their nails get kind of long, and then the tip chips off. They never had any problems with pieces getting caught or only partially broken. I never have cliped them.
> 
> Honestly, I prefer clippers to a dremmel. Sanding the nails down takes longer, and it seems to be more aversive to the birds. You can probably clip a whole foot in the same about of time it takes to you round down one nail with a dremmel.
> 
> If you do get to blood, pack the nail in a fine powder, like flour or cornstarch. There are actually products for that, and they are pretty much like flour. I tend to use that for big cuts too, it works really well to start the initial clot.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about a little blood. I've never heard of any birds bleeding to death from a toe nail. The bleeding is pretty easy to stop.
> 
> From the set up you describe, I kind of doubt your pigeons need a trimming anyway.


I don't think it's the amount of blood that she's worried about. Cutting enough to make it bleed will hurt the bird. She of course, doesn't want to hurt them. They probably are long enough to need cutting. My pigeons nails get long. If they were out running around on the roof like the ferals, they would get worn down.


----------



## TerriB

From what I've seen on my birds, it seems like nails are worn down primarily on take-offs (front toes) and landings (rear toe). I noticed scratches worn on the perch most of the birds use going to and from the coop. Grace (powerful homer) is more explosive and wears her nails better. Walter is...(how do I say this nicely)...a big King and really digs in to keep from sliding off and crashing. The Old German Owls are more airy in their flying so they are more likely to grow pointy nail tips.

Valeri, you mentioned that you are familiar with dog and cat nails. Pigeons' nails are very similar. If you look at the cut nail end on, when you get close to the quick there is a lighter central core. From the side, pigeon nails are like a more moderate cat nail - thin clippable part leading to thicker part containing the quick. 

It won't take you long before this becomes old hat!


----------



## Jay3

TerriB said:


> From what I've seen on my birds, it seems like nails are worn down primarily on take-offs (front toes) and landings (rear toe). I noticed scratches worn on the perch most of the birds use going to and from the coop. Grace (powerful homer) is more explosive and wears her nails better. Walter is...(how do I say this nicely)...a big King and really digs in to keep from sliding off and crashing. The Old German Owls are more airy in their flying so they are more likely to grow pointy nail tips.
> 
> Valeri, you mentioned that you are familiar with dog and cat nails. Pigeons' nails are very similar. If you look at the cut nail end on, when you get close to the quick there is a lighter central core. From the side, pigeon nails are like a more moderate cat nail - thin clippable part leading to thicker part containing the quick.
> 
> It won't take you long before this becomes old hat!


Good description.


----------



## valeri

Thanks, everyone. The problem with Chauncey's nails is that a lot of them are black. Clive's nails are more translucent, white so I can better see where the quick might begin. I need to work on this and figure it out. 

She's back on the nest now and Clive (once again) is not relieving her of nesting duty. So, I may wait until she's a little farther in the cycle before I try again. I'll either try the baby clippers approach that Tamara uses, or use the pet-specific dremel I bought. I'll see if it scares her.

In the meantime, I'll make sure they have bricks where they takeoff and land. The bricks I have may not be placed strategically enough.

Do you know if any one kind of brick is better than the other? I have red bricks on the book shelves where they like to land, but also have a mix of gray cement bricks.

I'm wondering if I can put some kind of good surface on our dining room table -- where they spend a lot of time taking off and landing -- something that would help with the nails but not harm their feet.


----------

