# Help!!! Baby Hatched!!



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

*Help!!! Baby Hatched!! *Everything is okay now**

So, I decided it was time to candle my eggs. I gently scooted mom off the eggs and BABY!!!!!!!! There was a baby under her!!!!!! 

Do you think she'll get back on her baby??? What was I thinking! I should never had tried to move her. I was gentle and everything, but I hope she's okay and gets back on her baby.

I'm going to go back down and check in a few minutes, but I'm scared to death she's going to abandon her chick. How concerned should I be?

UPDATE: Everything is okay now.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

She's back on. THANK YOU LORD. You have no idea how surprised I was when I saw the baby!!  I about peed my pants.


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Congratulations! You're a grandmother!!


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

LOL. I'm going to be one of the buggy worry-wart grandmas too.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

most ppl on here will tell you not to touch the babies which is a good idea.
if you happen to move her to clean up or w/e she will get right back on the baby pigeon.
I sometimes have to move the parent thats sitting on the baby pigeon to clean up around the nest bowl
they dont like it one bit.. I get tons of wing slaps and they peck at my hands but they go right back to sitting on the baby once I leave them alone


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

moonshadow said:


> LOL. I'm going to be one of the buggy worry-wart grandmas too.


I hope to be in the same place in a week or so. And PigeonKid is already there. Maybe we should start a support group  WAIT!  We already have one! <Thanks, _PT_ >


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> She's back on. THANK YOU LORD. You have no idea how surprised I was when I saw the baby!!  I about peed my pants.


congrtats!
I thought you were expecting it/them to hatch this weekend? if the other hatches a day or two later there may be a problem with competeing for feedings as the big one will push the little one out of the way and hog the feedings....keep an eye on it I would say. so what do you need "HELP!" with?


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Congrats on your first hatchling!


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> congrtats!
> I thought you were expecting it/them to hatch this weekend? if the other hatches a day or two later there may be a problem with competeing for feedings as the big one will push the little one out of the way and hog the feedings....keep an eye on it I would say. so what do you need "HELP!" with?


When she got pushed off the nest (by me for the candling) she was SO upset and was acting them same way she did when she abandoned the first set of eggs. It scared me pretty good. That's what the HELP was for. I'm so thankful she's back on.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I do have one question, though. How long after the chicks hatch will the parents start feeding them? and should I check to make sure the chick is getting fed?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Congratulations on your new "surprise"!! I know EXACTLY the reaction you had because the same thing happened to me back in August. All I could say is OMG, OMG, OMG..........LOL
An hour or two after the babies hatch is when they feed them I guess. I'm not really sure because I don't usually KNOW the exact time mine hatched and my birds have been raising babies for so long that I don't even worry about whether they're feeding them or not. 
Just take a peak at the baby in a little while or tomorrow morning and make sure that it's ok. There shouldn't be any problems, but you don't REALLY ever know for sure that there won't be.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I'm hoping to get a picture tonight and document them from day to day. That way if I think something's wrong I can compare.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Congratulations to all the new pigeon grandparents! Enjoy the babies!

Terry


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I'm hoping to get a picture tonight and document them from day to day. That way if I think something's wrong I can compare.


I would not push getting the pics untill you band them, better to just leave them quiet and alone.....I thought you were expecting these babies, are these oops babies????


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Everybody here were once a ROOKIE...*



moonshadow said:


> She's back on. THANK YOU LORD. You have no idea how surprised I was when I saw the baby!!  I about peed my pants.


I'm happy for you and congratulations...Next time don't panic...Everything is normal when they move away from the egg or babies, eventually once the human is gone/left they will go back and sit on it...But I noticed that there are some parents that abandoned the eggs but never seen (IMO) a parent leaving the bowl when there's a baby in it...


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

my eggs hatched as well


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

congrats!
are these you first baby pigeons?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> I would not push getting the pics untill you band them, better to just leave them quiet and alone.....I thought you were expecting these babies, are these oops babies????


Yeah, I was expecting these, but I'd resigned myself to... "Maybe these won't hatch. They probably aren't fertile. That's probably best for now..." Then I moved mom and WOW there he was. It was not an oops baby, but for sure a surpise arrival. 

No, I wasn't planning to move mom to get pictures, but I figured she was would be more on/off the babies once she had to feed them.

Yes, these are my very first babies.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

james fillbrook said:


> my eggs hatched as well


Good for you! What kind of pigeons?


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

OK - so where are all the photos of these kids ???? There are more of us "1st time pigeon grandparents" waiting in the wings (so to speak) yanno .... we need to know what we're looking for ....


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I haven't been able to catch mom off the nest yet and I'm certainly not going to move her again.


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

moonshadow said:


> I haven't been able to catch mom off the nest yet and I'm certainly not going to move her again.


NO! Don't move her!! Heavens, NO! I'll be patient. The birds have already made me wait a week ... so I have another week+ to go 'till the 1st GrandEgg hatches. Then another 2 weeks before GrandEggs #2 & #3 hatch....that should give me time to calm down between rounds, don't you think?

(Heck! GrandEgg #3 isn't even here - - - - yet!)


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

She moved over for me! She saw the camera and gave me a peek.  Such a sweet pigeon. She truly is a lovely girl.



















I don't know if #2 will hatch.


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

moonshadow said:


> She moved over for me! She saw the camera and gave me a peek.  Such a sweet pigeon. She truly is a lovely girl.


OK...so i should be watching for someone who's gonna slip a duckling into my pigeon loft? JUST KIDDUNG!!! Baby #1 is adorable! Congratulations!!

I went just out to see if Skye has given us a 2nd egg and she wouldn't budge! Magellan (aka Birdzilla) is being VERY busy keeping everyone else away from HIS kennel/nest box/WOMAN while also presenting her (actually, covering her ) with tobacco stem nesting material. She's just taking it in stride tho' ... laying peacefully with her eyes half shut.... What a picture that is! But not near what it must be with a live BABY there, too!!!! How Cool!!!


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh, man! I wish the male would show the slightest interest in helping my hen. He never goes in with her and NEVER helps her with any setting or anything.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

she is lovely and so is her baby, you will want to toss the other egg. you can always candle it just to see, don't need too, I just do because Im nosey., it is easy to miss the cock feeding, just keep an eye on the crop and make sure the baby is full.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> she is lovely and so is her baby, you will want to toss the other egg. you can always candle it just to see, don't need too, I just do because Im nosey., it is easy to miss the cock feeding, just keep an eye on the crop and make sure the baby is full.


How do I check the crop? What do I do if it's not full? Do I take the baby away? How fast will the mamma figure out to feed him? He seems VERY weak right now. Is that normal?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> How do I check the crop? What do I do if it's not full? Do I take the baby away? How fast will the mamma figure out to feed him? He seems VERY weak right now. Is that normal?


This is a full crop. Puffs out like a soft little balloon.








Don't worry. They usually figure it out.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Anyone have a picture of an empty crop?  I have a video, so I'm uploading it now. Maybe you can tell from that?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, it's darker then I thought it'd be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tv0Bt6KN88

Also, baby appears to have grown overnight, is that a good sign?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they do grow fast at this age. Amazingly so! An empty crop is just flat. No soft little pillow.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

To me it looks like there is something in his crop. I'll check again tomorrow. Is there any warning signs that he's not being fed properly or enough? I'm kind of taking a hands-off approach as the mom doesn't like my presence. I figure if I keep checking on the little sea monster it will just make things harder on her. She seems to be attentive enough and VERY dedicated.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Empty Crop.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2009)

dont worry from that picture it seems the mother is taking very good care of her baby .. and your right the more you bother her the more your apt to have problems with her not wanting to do so ..for the first week its really important that you disturb them as little as possible ...the only thing I would change is the next time she is off the nest add more shaving to the bottom of that bowl say a half inch worth to keep that baby from getting splay legs, but make sure the shaving are the same that are in there now as they dont like change so dont over do it .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I wouldn't bother her any more than you have to. They usually do a good job. Bothering them too much, will just make them nervous. As far as the dad, he will have his turn later. As when Momma is on a new batch of eggs, he will be the caretaker of the little ones.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh, she might be on a new set of eggs, but they are gonna be fake.  No babies until I have my loft built. Scooter is the going to be an only child for awhile.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

If I'm seeing things right there the crop is kind of like a balloon that straddles the breast bone? I think it's slightly puffed out on my Scooter.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I hear ya! LOL. But get ready, cause when these guys are a couple of weeks old, they're gonna start thinking about another brood.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Hey, how long until the eyes open?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Hey, how long until the eyes open?


I think it is somewhere between one and two weeks. Can't remember. But I think it was about that long.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So you band before the eyes are open?


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2009)

they open around 6 or 7 days and you band them around the 6th day or 7th depending on how big they are , when its a single baby its more like the 6th thou as they tend to grow even faster when theres just one baby in the nest


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Good to know! Thanks.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So the other egg hadn't hatched yesterday, so that means if he hatches he'll be WAY behind. Is that okay?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> So the other egg hadn't hatched yesterday, so that means if he hatches he'll be WAY behind. Is that okay?


no,it is not okay, your common sense told you that Im sure, you being a farm girl and all. it may not hatch, if the sqaub hatched on sat it is not going to but if he hatched on monday, I would say throw it out friday and you can always candle it to ease your mind, candle it just like you would a chicken's egg.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> no,it is not okay, your common sense told you that Im sure, you being a farm girl and all. it may not hatch, if the sqaub hatched on sat it is not going to but if he hatched on monday, I would say throw it out friday and you can always candle it to ease your mind, candle it just like you would a chicken's egg.


Farm girl or no. Everyone's unending patience in answering my questions is MUCH appreciated.

I just added more bedding to the nest and the squab had a FULL crop.  I was so proud of mama. I think I'll leave the other egg in there for a day more. I try to do only one disturbance of mama per day. Today it was simply to check the second egg and add bedding. Tomorrow I'll take the other egg and candle it.

I remember with our chicken hens there would usually be one dud egg per batch of chicks. But, that's a pretty high percentage of the eggs with a pigeon.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

You know what my mentor told me when I called him about my very 1st egg? he said "keep your hands to yourself", ...Some parents he said is so sensitive they don't want to go back and incubate the eggs once its been touch by touchy  touchy human... But I did touched 5 days after the 2nd egg layed...


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## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

well i play with my young all the time i have never had a problem with then dieing or anything 
i must just be lucky


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah, I'd never risk the baby pidgey by playing with it. That's just not cool.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I tend to leave my babies till they are 6 days old, then it's time to band and clean out the nestbox and nestbowl. How can such tiny babies produce so much poop?

I would move the unhatched egg tomorrow . It's unlikely to hatch if it hasn't done so by then and is likely to break; it will stick to the hen and baby and you'll have a real mess.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Maybe I'll grab the egg tonight then. If it is fertile what do I do?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Maybe I'll grab the egg tonight then. If it is fertile what do I do?


you could wait till friday and when mom gets up to poop and eat and drink, grab it out of there and candle it, I don't think it is going to hatch, but it would be interesting to see whats inside...thats just me, but do what you feel comfy with.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

How do I tell what's inside? I mean, I kind of remember from the ducks we raised, but I thought by the time they were ready to hatch it was all black inside(the body blocks the light). If it's infertile it will show up as clear and if there's an embryo it will be lots of veins and some movement.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> How do I tell what's inside? I mean, I kind of remember from the ducks we raised, but I thought by the time they were ready to hatch it was all black inside(the body blocks the light). If it's infertile it will show up as clear and if there's an embryo it will be lots of veins and some movement.


That is exactly right, you know your stuff!, if it is dark it failed to hatch, but you could leave for another day to ease your mind and then throw it out after that.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> That is exactly right, you know your stuff!, if it is dark it failed to hatch, but you could leave for another day to ease your mind and then throw it out after that.


Yeah, if it's dark I'm gonna cry! I will have a real hard time throwing it out.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

There's definitely a chick in the egg! What do I do?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> There's definitely a chick in the egg! What do I do?


I'm guessing that these two eggs weren't from the same hen? How old is the first baby? Do you not know when this egg was laid and when it's supposed to hatch?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

No I don't know if it's from the same hen and I don't know when each egg was laid.  I guess my other hen (08) could have sneaked in and laid next to her... However, she's got her own next box that she hides in sometimes. I "think" the first two eggs (the ones she abandoned) were from this (07) hen too, so I assumed she was laying two at a time.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> No I don't know if it's from the same hen and I don't know when each egg was laid.  I guess my other hen could have sneaked in and laid next to her... However, she's (younger hen) got her own next box that she hides in sometimes. I "think" the first two eggs (the ones she abandoned) were from this (07) hen too, so I assumed she was laying two at a time.


In that case, I'd just leave the egg for a couple more days. You CAN pick it up and put it up to your ear and see if you hear any pecking sounds. Thing is, IF this egg hatches, the baby is going to be SO tiny and SO far behind the other one and IF it takes more than another day or two to hatch, the parents aren't even going to have any crop milk to feed it and that's trouble with a capital T............any other birds sitting on eggs?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

This hen (the one with a chick-07) started incubating as soon as the first egg was laid. Would that make any difference? And if the second chick is born should I take the older one out and hand feed him, so the younger one gets a chance at feeding? I could put them back together when they were older...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

It would and could make a difference, but not 3 days difference. To be honest, I believe the baby that is there now is a day or two older than you think it is. The picture that's posted is one day after you found it, right? That baby looks to be at least 3 days old in that picture........to me anyway. They open their eyes at about 4 or 5 days. Are it's eyes open yet?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

AHHH!!! So when do I band?? Here's yesterday's pictures of him. Take another look and tell me how old you think he is!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm thinking at least 4 days old. I gotta run out to the loft and thaw water AGAIN.......LOL
Be back later.
I'd try banding the baby in a couple of days. It's not big enough yet, but when there's only one baby in a nest, they grow a little faster sometimes.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Could anyone find a picture of a newly hatched pigeon? I'm going to google it right now. When I discovered him he was definitely extra pink and not fluffy. Which is what made me think he'd just hatched. But, when I went to get pictures of him 4 hours later he seemed like a different bird he was so big looking. Could he just be growing at an accelerated rate because of being a single chick?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

This baby is 3 days old.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Maybe yours IS just 3 days old. I don't know.........it could just be a big baby. They are different sizes when they hatch. I've seen babies that were teeny tiny........it was amazing and then some are good size when they hatch.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah, I think yesterday was day 3.  So, should I attempt banding tomorrow?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Yeah, I think yesterday was day 3.  So, should I attempt banding tomorrow?


You could try it you want and see how easy it goes on. If you can put it on without any trouble, it probably won't stay. Then just wait until the next day.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So the band goes on the left leg with the writing upside down? Also, I just bought standard AU homer bands. Do I know for sure that the band will not be too small for him when he matures?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

It doesn't matter which leg the band goes on nor does it really matter whether it's upside down or not. If you look on the band, there's one end that's smoother than the other end and that end should go down to rest on the birds foot. I get mine on wrong sometimes and I don't really care as long as the band is on the bird. 
You DO have homers, right? They're not King pigeons or any other big breed?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, I'm about 98% sure I have homers. I know my young pair are homers. This 07 pair (with the chick) are wearing AU bands and when I tracked the owner I was told he was known for his white racers. I think he's dead or in a nursing home now, so I can't ask him in person. Also, mom and dad are average sized birds.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

if its a single baby pigeon whatever you do dont do what I did and had to wait until it was 8 days old cause the bands had not arrived yet.
it was REALLY hard to get the band on that one.
when its a single baby pigeon in the nest they grow MUCH faster than if there are two babies in the nest


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So maybe I'll attempt to band him tomorrow. I will have help from my husband, so it'll be a good time to try.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Well, I'm about 98% sure I have homers. I know my young pair are homers. This 07 pair (with the chick) are wearing AU bands and when I tracked the owner I was told he was known for his white racers. I think he's dead or in a nursing home now, so I can't ask him in person. Also, mom and dad are average sized birds.


Then the AU bands are the right ones and won't be too small.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, the squab has his eyes open. What does that tell you? Pictures are uploading...


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

See the little slit?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> So, the squab has his eyes open. What does that tell you? ...


That maybe he was here longer than you realized?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> That maybe he was here longer than you realized?


yea, he may of hatched on sunday....????


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So I should band him today? Or do you think I should band him this morning? Since he appears to be growing at ultra-light speed.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh and I held the other egg up to my ear. I swear I heard/felt something. I just can't bear to throw it away yet.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> So I should band him today? Or do you think I should band him this morning? Since he appears to be growing at ultra-light speed.


You can try slipping a band on and see how hard or easy it goes on. Doesn't hurt anything to try.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Oh and I held the other egg up to my ear. I swear I heard/felt something. I just can't bear to throw it away yet.


Then don't throw it out just yet..........


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I stroked the little guy when I was in there and he is sooo cute. Just a little peanut.  He looks very big! Check out the album in my siggy and you can see how big he is getting. I think I should call him MONSTER.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Then don't throw it out just yet..........


No. I'm going to keep it in there. Maybe I'll candle it again tonight. I forgot my flashlight last night.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> No. I'm going to keep it in there. Maybe I'll candle it again tonight. I forgot my flashlight last night.


After the 5th or 7th day candling really isn't reliable.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> After the 5th or 7th day candling really isn't reliable.


What? Why is that?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> What? Why is that?


Because the growing embryo may not be visible anymore.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/determining-fertility-of-eggs-candling-eggs-14912.html

At least, that's what it says in this post. I do believe I have read that in other places also.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> Because the growing embryo may not be visible anymore.
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/determining-fertility-of-eggs-candling-eggs-14912.html
> 
> At least, that's what it says in this post. I do believe I have read that in other places also.



Well, I don't know about that. Never heard it before. In fact, I've got a hen who's bred for me for 4 years and always laid 2 eggs. This last time however, she just laid one. Just about an hour ago, I gave the birds a bath and she actually got off of the egg, so I decided to candle it to see if it was good. It should hatch on the 15th. So that means the egg is 10 or 11 days old. I could clearly see that there was growth in the egg so of course, I put it back. 
I think maybe the terminology is what's confusing. Fertile and Viable maybe should be used? If the egg is fertile, then at 5 days to 7 days to obviously 10 days, you can see the embryo growing. At about maybe 15 days to 18 days, yes, the egg would be very dark because it's filled with a baby. Now at THAT point, you know the egg WAS fertile of course, but you don't really know if the baby is viable (ie...still alive)..........does that make sense? I "think" that's what viable means.........guess I should look it up, huh?


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Maybe I'll try to get pictures of the egg tonight when I candle it. You can CLEARLY see the outline of a chick inside. That's why I wanted to candle it for an extended period, to see if I could see it moving.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I was just wondering today if they move inside the egg before they're ready to hatch. I know they turn when they're hatching to pip the egg........but I'm wondering if they do BEFORE that.......and the reason is......I've given a hen two eggs to hatch and they are due to hatch 2 days after her eggs would have hatched........so, I'm thinking, that IF the chicks move a few days before they hatch and the parents can feel them moving, maybe they tend to stay on the eggs some extra days because they "know" that something is there and it's not just a dummy egg............UMMM........


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, I don't know about that. Never heard it before. In fact, I've got a hen who's bred for me for 4 years and always laid 2 eggs. This last time however, she just laid one. Just about an hour ago, I gave the birds a bath and she actually got off of the egg, so I decided to candle it to see if it was good. It should hatch on the 15th. So that means the egg is 10 or 11 days old. I could clearly see that there was growth in the egg so of course, I put it back.
> I think maybe the terminology is what's confusing. Fertile and Viable maybe should be used? If the egg is fertile, then at 5 days to 7 days to obviously 10 days, you can see the embryo growing. At about maybe 15 days to 18 days, yes, the egg would be very dark because it's filled with a baby. Now at THAT point, you know the egg WAS fertile of course, but you don't really know if the baby is viable (ie...still alive)..........does that make sense? I "think" that's what viable means.........guess I should look it up, huh?



I see what you are saying, but she didn't say viable. She said visible. I don't know, as I'm not very experienced in this. If you're saying that they can be reliably candled at that point, than you should know. I have learned something new.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Didn't candle the other egg. The banding had complications, so I got distracted. I forgot to grab the egg while mom was off the nest. I'll do it tomorrow.

Anyway, I found out something very important today. This particular pair has babies with really big legs/feet. I just barely got the band on.  I struggled with Scooter and finally had hubby help hold him. Hubby pointed out I need to stretch the leg out more and I wasn't sure how hard to pull on the leg, so it took some doing. The baby did not appreciate me trying to pull his leg out straight and kept pulling it back into himself. I finally got it on though. I'll just have to be aware next time that I need to try more around 4 days, especially if there's only one chick in the nest.

I did notice that the baby seemed very floppy and felt like soft bread dough. Is that normal? I mean there's not suppose to be much to them at this point, right? His crop appeared full. He seemed happy and cuddled right into my hand. He's sooo adorable I just wanted pet him forever.

Here he is:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's really cute.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

When do they get feathers starting to come in? It's sure hard to believe those floppy little chicken arms will someday be the capable wings of an athlete.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You will be amazed at how fast they will grow. LOL.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, he's already AMAZED me with how fast he's growing.  Does anyone know at what point are the squabs "out of the woods" or more stable? Someone on another forum said, "I hope he survives..." and I was like what? What could happen to an indoor squab at this point in life?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I did notice that the baby seemed very floppy and felt like soft bread dough. Is that normal? I mean there's not suppose to be much to them at this point, right? His crop appeared full. He seemed happy and cuddled right into my hand. He's sooo adorable I just wanted pet him forever.



LOL.........that's SO funny........yea, they feel kinds squishy and heavy at this point........he'll fill out though........just you watch and see.
I know what you mean about the band. I REALLY think that he's probably a day older than we think he is....I doubt that even a single baby would need to be banded at 4 days old.......but you'll know next time.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> When do they get feathers starting to come in? It's sure hard to believe those floppy little chicken arms will someday be the capable wings of an athlete.


At about 9 or 10 days you'll see little tiny feathers start to pop out. Around 11 days or so, most of the time you can tell the colors.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> Well, he's already AMAZED me with how fast he's growing.  Does anyone know at what point are the squabs "out of the woods" or more stable? Someone on another forum said, "I hope he survives..." and I was like what? What could happen to an indoor squab at this point in life?


I don't know why someone would say such a thing. Your baby looks perfectly fine and healthy to me. As far as "out of the woods".......since your baby is inside, I'm pretty sure he's safe from most anything. Bottom line is, if the parents are healthy, then there's really no reason why the babies shouldn't be also.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Well, he's already AMAZED me with how fast he's growing.  Does anyone know at what point are the squabs "out of the woods" or more stable? Someone on another forum said, "I hope he survives..." and I was like what? What could happen to an indoor squab at this point in life?


Why wouldn't he survive? Nothing like a nice positive attitude. He'll be fine. Don't worry. He's beautiful. It'll be fun watching him grow. You'll have to keep us updated with lots of pics.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Why wouldn't he survive? Nothing like a nice positive attitude. He'll be fine. Don't worry. He's beautiful. It'll be fun watching him grow. You'll have to keep us updated with lots of pics.


Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I can't wait until he's old enough to wean. 

Oh, and you really shouldn't have said that about the pictures. LOL. I do NOT need any encouragement.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> LOL.........that's SO funny........yea, they feel kinds squishy and heavy at this point........he'll fill out though........just you watch and see.
> I know what you mean about the band. I REALLY think that he's probably a day older than we think he is....I doubt that even a single baby would need to be banded at 4 days old.......but you'll know next time.


Yeah, I really wish I knew the exact day he came out. I guess I'll just keep a closer eye next time. I'm just glad I had hubby's help. He is going out of town today, so I would have been stuck.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

any thoughts on the other egg?...if your baby is 7 days old today then It does not seem likley it will hatch, and you don't want to leave it too long as it will start to decomposing in the shell. the baby is way cute!!!! and healthy looking to me. pigeons are very good a reproducing and the babies are tuffer than you think.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah, I will listen/candle 2nd egg tonight. I'll throw it unless I heard or see LOTS of movement.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I candled the other egg and you could tell the chick had decayed inside. Yuck! Poor thing. Anyway, I tossed it out. I also checked the band on the chick and it's still looking great.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2009)

yeah if the eggs dont hatch two days after the first one thats a tell tale sign its not gonna hatch unless it was layed later in the game which wouldnt be good either but thats another story  Glad the one is doing so well


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, yesterday and today whenever I go into the room the hen FLIES off the nest like she's being chased!! It's so weird. I wondered if she's getting hungry and knows when I'm coming there will be FOOD/WATER. She never flown away that violently even when I first got her and she was REALLY wild. So I am thinking I need to feed more, so she's not hungry. I upped her food, but the other birds come in and steal it, so that must be the problem. 

Also, I am petting the little one everyday now. But, today whenever I pet him he seemed to get really mad. LOL. It was kind of cute, but I wondered if he really is mad or if that's how he responds when he's hungry. He kind of flops up and stabs out at me with his beak. Is that feeding behavior or aggression? I was like WHOA there buddy! I can't imagine he's hungry though, cause he is SO fat. His crop is SO full I can't believe he can move at all. Talk about a spare tire. 

Here's a picture of little chubbo:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She takes off when you come in. Maybe you are not staying away from the nest box enough. She knows your coming, so she takes off. Doesn't sound like hunger to me. And the baby is being aggressive. He sees you as a threat. He is simply trying to defend himself. It has nothing to do with hunger. They really shouldn't be bothered too much. They like their privacy with their new babies. Maybe you should wait to get to know him when he is a little older. There will be plenty of time for that.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> She takes off when you come in. Maybe you are not staying away from the nest box enough. She knows your coming, so she takes off. Doesn't sound like hunger to me. And the baby is being aggressive. He sees you as a threat. He is simply trying to defend himself. It has nothing to do with hunger. They really shouldn't be bothered too much. They like their privacy with their new babies. Maybe you should wait to get to know him when he is a little older. There will be plenty of time for that.


I only go into the room once a day, twice at the most. I only ever look at the baby once a day for about 30-60 seconds. (When I needed to check the chick/egg early on I never shooed here away. I just slowly put my hand along her side and she would hop off. Didn't even seem that afraid.) I usually go in feed, water, look at the baby and leave. I try to not look directly at any of my birds and especially the mom. Each time that she flew off it was when she was totally out of food. So, that made me wonder if she was eager to be fed. Anyways, I can't go in there less because I don't go in there except to feed and water them. I really can't do it any different.

So is the pecking with the chick an instinct aggression? Or a sign of his personality?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No, it's just instinct. He'll be fine with you when he gets a bit older, and gets used to you. I would just not bother with the little one for a while. The parents don't like it. He is a cute little thing though.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah, I'll try to be as hands off as possible.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Yeah, I'll try to be as hands off as possible.


It's hard cause they're so darn cute and squishy.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I know! I'm like Dorie in Nemo. "I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine! And he shall be my squishy!"


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

New question! I went in to feed this afternoon and mom was not on the baby. Of course, I panicked and felt the baby's back to see if he was warm. He was, but not super warm. Their room is about 65-68 degrees most of the time. Is it okay for mom to not be on the baby all the time?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> New question! I went in to feed this afternoon and mom was not on the baby. Of course, I panicked and felt the baby's back to see if he was warm. He was, but not super warm. Their room is about 65-68 degrees most of the time. Is it okay for mom to not be on the baby all the time?


yes, they don't sit as much after day 10 or so.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Phewfta! I kind of figured that, but since mom has been acting strangely this week I wanted to make sure.  Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> I know! I'm like Dorie in Nemo. "I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine! And he shall be my squishy!"


LOL. That's funny! Maybe you should name him Squishy! LOL.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

After the tenth day, I think it is, they can usually regulate their body temperature better. The parents know this, and don't stay on them as much.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yeah, maybe Scooter would not fit him anyways, cause he is FAT. He looks like a balloon with sand inside of it.  It's so cute when he tries to move. LOL. Squishy would be good name, but I wonder what people would think. I'm thinking every conversation would go like this...

_"Yeah, I have a pet pigeon!" 

"Oh, yeah... what's a pigeon?" 

"Well, it's like a dove!" 

"In your house?"

"Yeah..."

"Don't they poop a lot?" 

"Yeah, but not too bad." 

"Well, what's his name?" 

"Squishy." 

"What? YUCK! Why'd you call him that?"

"Ahhhh...."_


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

YOu're too much! LOL! But you're right!


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Are these feathers coming in?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

yep. sure are.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

this has been one GREAT thread to read 
congrats on your baby pigeon


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He'll look like a little porcupine for a while, as they come in. Then they'll open up, and he'll go from Squishy to soft and fluffy. Amazing to watch.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks Sto! Yeah, he does look like a porcupine right now. He was SO indignant when I added some bedding to his bowl too. He kept raising up and peaking at the air. He needed the bedding though. Things were getting poopy in his bowl. I don't want to clean it yet, so I just dropped some bedding along his sides in hopes he would push it down underneath him. I have a feeling he's getting fed real well. He's soo fat. I'm glad there's only one in the bowl. I will have to get a bigger bowl for the next time-whenever that is...


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

S/He's adorable!!! And, I agree - this has been a GREAT thread .... 'specially since our 1st GrandPij is due Friday or Saturday. After following your adventures - maybe it won't feel quite so much like we've never done this before!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wolfwood, I hope you'll post pics of the new babies when they come. Do you have pics of the parents?


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Jay - I've responded in a new thread so as not to hijack this one ....


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Just so everyone knows I'm keeping a pigeon photo journal of Scooter/Squishy. I don't know how to put the link here, but just go my my photo albums.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

moonshadow said:


> Just so everyone knows I'm keeping a pigeon photo journal of Scooter/Squishy. I don't know how to put the link here, but just go my my photo albums.


Here's the link: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=473 Great photos! Thank you for sharing!

Terry


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Okay, I have another question...

Do the parents beaks get worn when they are feeding their young? Because I swear the parents beaks have gotten shorter and less pointy in the last 2 weeks. Any ideas??


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Okay, I have another question...
> 
> Do the parents beaks get worn when they are feeding their young? Because I swear the parents beaks have gotten shorter and less pointy in the last 2 weeks. Any ideas??


no idea, maybe they just look that way because the babies beak are so longish looking compared...


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

No, it's in comparison to the other pair that isn't breeding/rearing young. It's like the very tip of the beak is wearing down. It's WEIRD.

Oh, and I've been reading around the forum about canker and other stuff. I would know if my birds were sick right? I mean they have always seemed healthy, but lately their poops are a bit loose and more green. I've recently (with 2-3 weeks) added vits/minerals to their water once a week, but that's about it. I still give small amounts of apple cider vinegar in their water off/on too. Also, they're inside birds, so I haven't wormed them. Should I do that anyways?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. It is a good idea to treat for worms and canker before breeding. I believe most people do it spring and fall. Don't do it now, as the Squish is too young. Wait until he's weaned.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

What meds do you recommend for canker and worming?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, I like Spartrix for canker, and ivormectin for worms, but it is recommended that you switch them out and use something else every couple of times. So it's probably a good idea to start with these, or something else like them, and then later on you can always pick up something else for each. I'm sure there are many opinions as to what everyone likes. There are many products on the market that work well. You can treat them in their drinking water, but I prefer to treat each bird individually, as that way I know that they have gotten the right amount of the med. Of course, if you have many birds, that would be a lot harder to do, and time consuming. Then adding it to the drinking water would be the way to go. Maybe others will come in with other opinions on what they like. You could treat twice a year for coccidia as you do for worms and canker. I like Albon or Sulmet. Again, there are other opinions. You give your birds Apple Cider Vinegar. Also, probiotics weekly are good. Puts in the good gut bacteria. Check out Foys, or New England Pigeon Supply, or Jedds and see what they offer.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Yes, I have to agree, this is a great thread. Your baby will be coming up to the 'monkey see, monkey do' stage very soon. I usually put a pot of seed in the nest box at this stage so that they can watch the parents feeding and, before long, he will be trying to peck himself and it makes the weaning less stressful. You do keep food in front of them 24/7 ?


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