# trying to find the best solution for baby; long rambling post



## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

since the minute my mom and i found this lovely little pigeon, my mind has been racing about the future. when it became apparent that the seizures were indeed gone, i realised this little guy (or girl, i still dont know?) was going to be here a while. and ive already started agonising over his or her future. i honestly dont know what to do. i dont think release in this neighborhood would be wise, since there is the danger of cars and people. there is a park not far off, but again, near heavy traffic and around prople. there is also the constant threat of hawks; we do have a young coopers hawk. the lot we found him/her in is only a couple of blocks away. i have to admit im not sure where his/her flock hangs out, but with all the traffic.....course this all makes me feel guilty, since this baby will never see his/her parents agian, and they will never know if (s)he made it. im guessing pigeons have a family structure of sorts?

i had read about people who release a flock at a time, and i like that idea, but have no idea how i would find someone like that. after reading of another members difficulties in denver, im not so sure this bird would be safe in this city. i have very limited transportation, as i dont drive, so if i did find someone theyd have to pick up the little sweetie.

all this of course, is me worrying way ahead of myself. i believe with his/her leg injury, its going to be a while before i can even consider release. and of course he/she will need to practice flying before relase as well. he/she is already becoming restless, so im going to take him/her into another room and at least hop around. id get pretty restless in such a tiny "room" as well!

then there is the other option; keeping him or her as a pet. i have to admit i am trying not to get too attached, and not let him/her get too attached to me, but its hard when i go in to change food and water, and not react when (s)he attacks/nibbles me! i do talk to and sometimes pet him/her, after all, pigeons are social creatures and need that contact, right? ive moved him/her out to this room, because its warmer, and there is more activity, with Kachina flying around and me back and forth all the time. so more stimulation. (s)hes high enough that the cat and dogs cant see him/her, and visa versa, because i dont want him/her getting used to potential predators if (s)he is released.

its amazing what these birds can do to one! ive rescued other wild birds; english house sparrows, a blue jay, a couple of robins who were also hard to release because they were so sweet. i had an injured english house sparrow for at least 6 weeks who had suffered a head injury and couldnt even perch. he was always very wild, so id set out his cage and his mate and their kids from that season would come visit every day. i know he made it, cause id see him every so often. he would land right above me (out of reach, of course!), and talk to me. i knew it was him cause he always had a bit of a forward tilt, left over from the injury. but he raised more babies and was around at least a couple more seasons. the blue jay was so wild i released him before he was eating on his own, because he literally too scared to eat. i had him in the cage, and a pair of jays came over to see him (i swear they checked that whole cage to see how they could spring the baby!!). i took the chance, releasing him in our backyard, a few blocks from where he was originally found, and the pair we had hanging around adopted him. i know they fed him, even though their little ones were still in the nest.

anyway, this is my ramble for the day, worrying about what is *best* for this sweet little baby, who we originally figured needed to go quietly in a home wher (s)he was loved and cared for, and not a cold, hard parking lot all alone.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*newest pics*






































if anyone can help with whether hes a he or shes a she; i have to at least name this baby; no harm in that


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

I was feeling the same way with my last rescued pigeon. I let him the choice to go several times... but he always comes back at our door. (For my secret happiness)  

Suz.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Time has a way of taking care of things.

He is still a youngster and needs time to heal and mature. Once he does, it will be easier to make a decision. ..and as Suz did, maybe baby will make the decision for you.

Has the leg been looked at by an avian vet?


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

yeah, i hope so. i figure its gonna be a few weeks till (s)hes able to stand well, fly, land, navigate. i personally wouldnt have a problem if (s)he decides to stay  


looks like its the foot, and not the leg, like i originally thought. the part of the foot where the toes meet is swollen; i noticed it when i took him/her out today. no, i havent been able to get to the vet; finances are a bit tight right now. i took some pictures of the leg/foot today so will try and post those later. other then the slight swelling, the foot and leg look good, no redness, no cuts or signs of infection. (s)he is also holding it down a bit lower then before, so im hopeful that its just a sprain and soon enough (s)he will put weight on it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi [email protected],


Yahhhh...post some close ups of the Foot, the 'swelling' of the knuckles there where the toes meet. They walk on their fingers/toes in effect, like if you bent your fingers back, so your palm were perpendicular, so the wrist is up from there...and walked on that that way.

Sprained hips or thighs or legs one way or another, are common, and will appear just as this otherwise, with a relaxed Foot and leg being held up. Usually a couple weeks and all is well again.

This is of course a young Pigeon yet, who is accepting you as their stand-in parent and caretaker. They look quite happy and secure in the images there.

For now, of course i nteract with them all you like, preen them, cuddle them, praise them, admire them...spend time with them in various ways...


Later, it is natural for them to grow up and to assume airs of independance and to join the wild Worlds if allowed to do so. The problem most raisers run into with feral youngsters later, is that they do not sequentially introduce the Bird to other feral/wild Pigeons or flock society, so that, when they try and do what they feel is a 'release', it is too sudden and discontinuous for the Bird to know what to do or how to do it, and if the Bird is nervous or intimidated, or does not leave, they then think the Bird wants to stay with them. Which is not quite the whole truth of the matter.

One generally does best to begin now or to begin early when possible, to be with one's young Pigeon while it gets to meet feral/wild others while grazing Seeds. Yours is of the age where this was begun with it's parents, and likely it got seperated from them and found privation and injury.


But, anyway, the ideal for them, is slightly before they can even fly, to set them with wild others, with one staying close to them so they see one is superviseing and watching over them, in the out of doors for them to begin to acquire the feral modes and society familiarities...and they are always intimidated and nervous the first few times, no matter if supervised by a person-parent or by their own biological Pigeon-Parents...and after a few times, they are comfortable and easy and pecking away with the rest of them.

The danger of course, for us, is if the young Pigeon flys away prematurely...so...somehow, all of this is to be weighed.

If allowed the society of wild or feral others, indoors or out, almost all youngsters once flying, soon become "wild" as can be, no matter how close, comfortable, tender, intimate and happy they had been with us otherwise.

I have been through this many many times...Lol...

if one raises one without their being exposed to feral others, then it is different, and the Pigeon youngster will not tend to become of 'wild' modes and aspect.

And almost all the Babys I have raised this year, instead of the usual thing of me watching over them outside for a few progressive sojournes of their initial socializeing with the feral flock, like I used to do, now, since I had some overlapping stays of WILD adults in free roam in here after their initial convelscence, the Adults in effect induce in the youngsters, or impart to them the feral modes of being, so that they ALL are very wild and will have nothing to do with me...! Too, I know they hamm t up also for fun, but it is also in earnest IN how much they hamm it up.

Lol...

I have in fact some Wild/feral Adults presently, out of cage-time convelescence for broken Wings, who are in fact quite friendly and calm. I can pick them up if I do it slowly and ask first, and they do nor flee or complain. They fly now, and are in the phase after some weeks of cage time, for getting their strength and muscles abck or otherwise finishing up on getting over their injuries.

These individuals would not 'teach' youngsters those modes of being like some others have done...so...it is a matter of the individual also. But I know these adults, once in the world again, would not let me pick them up, no matter how nicely I might ask..!

I liked the 'old' method better...when I could raise Baby Pigeons, and see it all through to their release, with sequences of feral-flock-socializeing that I watch over...

Once ALL the present ones are gone, then, maybe, I can have the old ways back again!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*swollen foot*

heres the latest photos; two are close ups of his/her foot:



















http://photobucket.com/albums/y51/2many/Pigeon/?action=view&current=pigeonfoot002wm.jpg


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

thanks, phil. i couldnt help but cuddle him/her earlier this afternoon; (s)he seemed to enjoy the attention. if i do release, it cant be in this neighborhood. the pigeon flocks dont come to our yard, and the dangers of cars and predators are too high. best bet, if i did release, would be to find someone able to integrate this one into a feral flock, preferably somewhere outside the city. much as id love to see him/her agin if released; id feel worse if something bad happened. 



pdpbison said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> 
> Yahhhh...post some close ups of the Foot, the 'swelling' of the knuckles there where the toes meet. They walk on their fingers/toes in effect, like if you bent your fingers back, so your palm were perpendicular, so the wrist is up from there...and walked on that that way.
> ...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi [email protected],

You could give us your first name if you like...

The 'Toes'...

Now, are they darkened? some of them? on the effected Foot?

Are they at all a slightly less diameter than the healthy colored ones?

This might be from frostbite, but not fresh...

Maybe make some more close up images if you can...of the Foot and Toes?


Such a lovely little Bird...!

Do all the cuddles you like of course...especially if they like it..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi phil,

sorrry about that; when i registered i listed my nic as 2many, but i guess it didnt take and defaulted to my email addy? wish there was a way to change that. but jen works too, lol.

his/her feet are two colors, pinkish and kinda grey. not discolored though, just the different pigment. toes seem normal otherwise. (s)he just wont put weight on it.

(s)hes got this new thing where if i put food/water in the tank, i get attacked!! its very funny, although (s)he can get a bit rough. but if i scratch his/her neck feathers, i get gentle nibbles or (s)he just settles down and closes his/her eyes. i think (s)hes just reminding me whos boss  sometimes (s)he trembles a bit when i come close, but usually stops right away and settles down if i talk to him/her.

(s)he hasnt made any sounds at all since coming home. is that normal, or should i be worried? are girls quieter, or do you think (s)he may be traumatized still? maybe (s)he just doesnt have anything important to say yet?

anyway of telling if i have a boy or a girl?

his/her wing markings are really different from pictures ive come across. quite a pretty baby though, i agree 

jen



pdpbison said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> You could give us your first name if you like...
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

best picture of his/her foot that i could manage for right now; all the rest were very blurry. (s)he was also pecking at the camera when i tried to get closer


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*this one might be clearer*

used the macro lens feature on the camera, duh, jen  :










also called the feed store, since they have pigeons. she doesnt know as much as her dad but shes still very knowledgeable. said i need a specific food for pigeons, and something called red gravel or red grit? i forget what she said. also said it sounds like the foot is sprained, and will heal in a few weeks.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> said i need a specific food for pigeons, and something called red gravel or red grit? i forget what she said. also said it sounds like the foot is sprained, and will heal in a few weeks.


The red grit is a supplement and given in a separate container from the actual pigeon seed mix.

That foot does look extremely painful and inflamed. I'd guess there is a break there somewhere or a wound that has become infected. Hopefully others will be along shortly to offer their opinions. Also, get a magnifying glass and look very, very carefully to be sure there isn't hair, fishing line, or the like around that area.

Can you have a vet or rehabber take a look at that leg and foot?

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

There's a dark spot just above where the outside toe attaches. Is that a wound?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jen, 


The Foot does look a little swollen to me too...

Sprained Feet are something I have never seen, but it could happen of course. I usually see sprained Legs, thighs, hip-areas as it were, but either way, they will hold them 'up' like that for however long it takes to heal from the sprain or green fracture of a bone. ( That is, where the crack in a bone is not a clean break-in-tw,o or seperation )

Young Pigeons do not tend to make sounds other than their peeps and squeaks for asking to be fed, or the same sounds in narrating their own pecking successes...or little grunts or murmers. In fact baby Pigeons and people-Babys actually make some sounds almost the same, little murmer wise.

No way to tell gender at this age...and very difficult later for that matter, although adult Males have some habits which most adult Females do not...

Glad to hear I was only seeing natural coloring there on those Toes...

'Pixeon Mix' of some kind would be the best, containing an assortment of Whole dries Peas of various kinds, whole dried Corn, Milo, Oat Groats maybe, some Sunflower Seeds, and whatever else...

Oyster Shell or other Marine Shell based Grit is good...clean Sand is fine...Canary or Parakeet Grit ( more or less clean sand) is fine...the 'Red' grit is usually Granite I think, on which have been adhered some additional mineral suppliments, and it is fine. Small (1/8th inch or so acroess) clean gravel or about any kind is fine for that matter.

Figure whatever Grit you get, have it in either a seperate little pile, or in a seperate little bowl.


Small, stright sided 'Custard' Bowls make good Pigeon food and Water Bowls, and any thrift store will have them inexpensively if you do not already posess them...I must have twenty or more of them in various sizes. Pigeons often tend to wish to perch on the sides of their Food and Water Bowls, so, straight sided ones are less likely to tip. Too, to lessen that, and to accomidate them aditionally, one can set a half-a-brick, half of some old clean housebrick or a clean non-tipping Grapefruit sized Rock in there for them to perch on...they like to be 'up' of course, even if it is only a few or several inches...

Get her some thin dried-matted flat-mop-like Sea Weed at an Oriental Market and shred some of that up into little peck-able pieces and see if she likes it...all of mine do...!

It is a good natural source of Vitamine "A" and some other discrete things.

Always ask first if you intend to reach into her cage or house...be respectful that way.

It is of course a good sign when they 'attack' us, as it shows they are not intimidated by us, and are interested to defend their space or posessions against our meddleing as 'if' we were another Pigeon or another small animal.

Even the fiercest Pigeons will usually just stand there and carefully observe with no attack, if you comunicate to them that you wish to replenish their food or water and that you will not try and pull any funny business...! Then you can reach in, graze them lightly even with your hand, and take out the old bowls and set new fresh ones in...and all is calm...

If you want to preen her, just stare at that spot you intend to preen, and slowly reach to it..and, she will likely know then what you intend. Too, otherwise, almost all wild Birds not raised by us from tiny Babys will object to being handled or picked up, so, they need to know what to expect so they are not having to guess...when we are about to do something to them, with them, or in their home or cage.

Lol...


Have fun...!

Phil
Las Vegas'


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

pdpbison said:


> ...Always ask first if you intend to reach into her cage or house...be respectful that way.
> 
> ...If you want to preen her, just stare at that spot you intend to preen, and slowly reach to it..and, she will likely know then what you intend...
> 
> ...


Phil, your behavioral suggestions are very helpful. With this in mind, the birds are much calmer and more responsive. Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

thanks, everyone! i dont know whre id be without all this info. in between, i have been reading older posts, and it amazes me what these birds can endure. this little baby is lucky in comparison.

based on the way Kachina acts, im almost thinking she might be a girl? he bows and coos to her, and she just watches him.

as for grit, i do have grit that they always sell for canaries and parakeets (even though they dont need it, and its actually bad for them). the lady at the feed store said that would be ok for now. i bought it over a year ago for Kachina.

going through my kitchen, i found a bean and barley soup mix. ingredients are barley, dark red kidney beans, green split peas, yellow split peas, green lentils, great northeren beans, pinto beans, navy beans, black beans, red lentils, azuki beans, and red chili beans. i also have a separate bag of green split peas. would any of this be ok?

thanks for the tips on how to approach him/her! i do ask permission before going in, and changing food and water. at the very least i tell him/her what im doing. (s)he doesnt always "attack", sometimes its just nibbling. petting and cuddling with him/her is no problem, but i will try that preening idea. (s)he also doesnt seem to mind being held at all either. sometimes (s)he trembles a bit, but as soon as i talk to him/her, that stops immediately. (s)hes pretty sweet and trusting at this point. i think (s)he knows i am trying to help.

there are no wounds on the foot. swelling isnt getting worse, but is a bit warm to the touch. the swelling may be going down, but its hard to tell. (s)hes getting better at hopping, and was out for a bit today. first thing (s)he does is flap his/her wings, then (s)he settles down and pecks at food i scatter. (s)he seems to like the camera, and has taken to nibbling at it, lol. other then that, (s)hes content to rest and keep a close eye on Kachina, and me as well, i believe!

im thinking of the name "Checkers"? i know check is the color (s)hes considered, and the name would be good for a boy or a girl. still looking for other ideas. i figure the right name will come up in time.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jen,

The Soup Medly would be allright in theory, but in practice Pigeons tend not to show much interest usually, in these kinds of items, but, you can see if she likes them...

The only other consideration, is that wholesome Seeds will be still somewhat chewy, if we test them by chewing them. Sometimes, 'old' Seeds will be very dry and not chewy but brittle, and these are not thought to posess as good of nutrition. 

Generally, when one has these Bean medleys or Soup mix medleys, they sit a long time in the larder or cubbard or pantry, and, often, have sat a long time before we ever buy them...so, they might be less nutritious than good wholesome Seeds as-such would be.

If you can locate some Pigeon Mix, at a farm or feed store or large pet store maybe, that would be the best.


If she is still nuzzleing-nibbleing, she is still asking to be fed in the traditional Pigeon youngster way...and, if you like, I can send mention some info on how to do it...might make her happy even if it is just for a short time till she looses interest in that and just pecks instead...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi phil,

i tried in the beginning to hand-feed, but (s)he wasnt very interested. we do have a little routine where i will sprinkle food down for him/her, and as they get scattered i put his/her favorites within easy reach. but if you want to send me info, i can try it. i imagine i wasnt doing it right, from the looks i got, lol.

i am almost out of guinea pig food and rabbit food, so need to go to the feed store sometime this coming week. the soup mix is well wrapped, but i agree its a bit old. i do have access to fresh bulk seeds, grains, and peas, if theres something in particular that would be good to offer. i also have fresh bulgar (cracked wheat), and wheat berries that i bought the same day we found him/her. would those be ok to offer?

i had him/her out a bit ago, and i sat on the floor and sprinkled seeds, and talked to him/her. Kachina came very close, cause as much as he wants everyone to know hes still in charge, and that hes not all that fond of me, he also doesnt want me to forget him  i do believe he has quite a bit of interest in the pigeon as well, however, even if hes not quite ready to admit that!! but i did try that preening technique you mentioned, because theres a spot on his/her right side that cant be reached because of the foot injury. (s)he quite happily let me preen her check, neck and head, even settling down and nibbling me back gently. a lot of times (s)he will also just look at me intently, if my face is up nest to his/hers. such a sweet baby. i forget who said i was hooked, but they are definitely correct


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Good morning. I would be careful of the soup mix. It would probably have too much salt in it - if it is the kind I'm thinking of where you just add water. You really need to be careful about things like that. 

Maggie


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

"Checkers" sounds good to me..."Checks" for short?  Try it out and see how he/she likes it...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Maggie, thanks for your concern  this is just a bulk soup mix, no salt or spices added, just the ingredients i listed above. but you bring up a great point.




Lady Tarheel said:


> Good morning. I would be careful of the soup mix. It would probably have too much salt in it - if it is the kind I'm thinking of where you just add water. You really need to be careful about things like that.
> 
> Maggie


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

lol, glad im not the only one who would consider this. i gotta name him or something soon (s)hes starting to respond to "baby"



mr squeaks said:


> "Checkers" sounds good to me..."Checks" for short?  Try it out and see how he/she likes it...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Good morning. I would be careful of the soup mix. It would probably have too much salt in it - if it is the kind I'm thinking of where you just add water. You really need to be careful about things like that.
> 
> Maggie



Hi Maggie, 


Good point...

I took for granted this was the same kind I sometimes buy, longish narrow cellophane package, of various Lentils and Beans, there is nothing on them in any way, they are just plain...but usually there is some little foil-paper envelope with the 'flavoring' stuff in it that I always throw away anyway...this mind you for when I make soups for me...


Still in all, good whole Seeds are best i think for Pigeons.


Anyway Jen, 

Avoid Seed types that are craked or broken, like cracked Corn or Wheat bulgar and so on...

Stay with whole individual Grains that are not broken...

Oat Groats, white Safflower, Millet, Milo, Wheat, Triticale, Buckwheat, Barley, Corn, dried whole Peas of various kinds...

Just regular Wild Birdseed-Mix they sell at most Grocery Stores in 25 lbBags is fine too, and you can augment it with say small sized plain old fashioned Pop-Corn, or other Seeds say that 'Petsmart' carries...


....small as possible 'Human Grade' raw whole Peanuts out of the shell...


Where do you live?

There ought to be some Feed or Farm Stores somewhere near you.

I finally found one here in Las Vegas that carries a real nice "Pigeon Mix" and so now we are all set in that department...!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Phil,

yes, i think i replied in earlier posts that i do have a good feed store, they sell pigeons and carry the food and grit i need to get. i buy most of my critter food there, and we know them well.

so the wheat berries would be ok, thats good to know. i can get a number of other seeds as well. peanuts would really have to be crushed, i imagine. the wild bird mixes here are just the small yellow or white millet and black oil sunflower seeds still in the shell (i feed the smaller wild birds). Kachinas food is a good mix of seeds like millet, milo, buckwheat, some peas (not sure what kind), safflower, and oat groats, to name a few.



pdpbison said:


> Anyway Jen,
> 
> Avoid Seed types that are craked or broken, like cracked Corn or Wheat bulgar and so on...
> 
> ...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh! 

That sounds really good then...!

No, one does not crush the Peanuts, but I do wish to emphasize that it is very important if one does give them Peanuts, that of course they are 'raw' and not salted or anything, shelld of course and absolutely perfect.

Peanuts VERY easily acquire Aspergillus, a mold which can be very dangerous to Birds...so, any hint of 'must' or whitish frost or anything, should deem them unfit for a Bird to eat.

Otherwise, 'small' spanish Peanuts I think are prudent...as for size...and no need to crush them.

The feral Pigeons here eat Olives fallen from the Olive Trees, and these are HUGE...I have no idea how they pass them from their Crops, but they do.

I myself cring at even the thought of a medium sized Peanut having to wangle it's way through the duct from their Crop to their stomach, so...

Lol...

Bon Appetite...to Kachina...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

lol, im a worrier then. i think ill pass on the peanuts for them, at least for now. i do buy peanuts for the blue jays (not the local squirrels, much as they believe otherwise!!), and im thinking of those. if i get spanish peanuts, id get them from the whole food store; they have a very high turnover of their bulk foods.



pdpbison said:


> Oh!
> 
> That sounds really good then...!
> 
> ...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Jen,*

I LOVE Peanut Butter and Valencia Peanuts make the BESTEST EVER! Arrowhead Mills makes an organic and non-organic Chunky or Creamy PB that is the best I've EVER tasted. No sodium and about 1 gram of sugar. 

Would these peanuts (raw and shelled) be as good as the Spanish peanuts for pigeons? Mmm, is Valencia a kind of Spanish peanut?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mr. Squeaks,


As long as the Peanuts are perfectly wholesome, I am sure they would be fine for Birds or Pigeons who like them.

I would be careful on their size however, if there may be any concern for the ability of the individual Bird to pass them from their Crop into their Stomach, and of course most Pigeons can, but any who may have scarring from illness in that area might have troubles passing them.

Of course Peanuts are high in fat and protean, so moderation is a good idea...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

mr. squeaks,
i love peanut butter too! my mom took me to the store she works at; you can actually turn on the little machine and make your own fresh peanut butter. have no idea what sort of peanuts they use but i can ask her.

phil,
any ideas on smaller high fat foods? this new baby eats well, although she (ok, im gonna call her a she till i know otherwise!) really goes after the tiny millet seeds. but id like to put some more weight on her. shes gained a bit, cause shes definitely heavier (i tend to be pretty good at gauging weight changes, whether my cat, a guinea pig, pet rat, or pigeon, lol); im just looking for a few seeds or grains i might be able to add to help her gain strength.

shes starting to practice lift offs, leading me to believe she wasnt even out of the nest, so there goes the whole hit by car theory. she must have hurt herself falling out of a nest? it was very windy that day, so maybe she couldnt break her fall with her wings? anyway, she can lift herself up a few inches, and glide down about a foot or so if im holding her. mostly, shes into trying to figure out whats on the floor beyond the blanket i set down for her to play on, and shes become quite good at hopping away  Kachina "tattled" on her once by flying back and forth from the main room to the kitchen, where i was cleaning, till i went in there. hes nice to her if shes on the floor, i figure cause its neutral territory, and since he never gets to go on the floor except now that shes here, he better behave, lol. on the top of his cage is a different story, and he ends up in his cage for time-outs. she makes baby peeps and flutters her wings if he gets close to her, like when i set her up on his cage (she has no interests as of yet on flying down or off the top of his cage). i had to put her back on the blanket a few times, and finally she stayed, but i know this humoring phase is just that, a phase  her foot seems to be looking better, and she can again move that leg, so im very hopeful. theres no time limit on when she has to get better, and i figure she will let me know what direction to take (at least i hope so!!).


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jen,


Sounds like a normal Squeaker who has some several weeks to go till being able to fly up to things and so on...and they love to explore and climb and so on of course too at this age.

Usually too, they first tend to prefer the smaller Seeds, and or to just peck one kind, and of course we wish for them to eat more of a variety...so...

See if you can get maybe some Rape Seeds to add...

And or also, take a mix of Millet, Milo, Rape and small Wheat or other small to medium Seeds, and add a little fresh Olive Oil to them, just so they glisten a little...stirr well of course to distribute the 'glisten' and then if you want, you can also add a little Brewer's Yeast powder and some powdered Purple Dulce or other additions which will stick to the Seeds then for her to eat when she pecks them.

"Nekton-T" is a nice powdered Bird Vitamine-Mineral product you can order on line with a 'google' search...

Soon she will take an interest also in the larger Seeds like the White Safflower.

Even my little adolescent Doves tended to get into the White Safflower Seeds once they had been in their initial tiny Seed phase of pecking...

My doves and Pigeons all reallyu love the dried, thin, matter Sea Weed they sell in discs for 99 Cets at the Oriental Markets...this is very good for them of course...I just shred some up with my fingers and mix it in with their Seeds, or leave it loose where they graze, and it all disappears soon after...

Too, if your young Pigeon can eat with your adult Dove, that would be a nice encouragement for her to want to try pecking whatever kinds of Seeds the Dove is pecking...


Glad to hear things are going well...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*update and appologies....*

....for not keeping everyone posted better; its been a rough couple of weeks (and beyond), both critterwise (i have a mini zoo here) and personal issues that have been going on.

the baby has been tentatively named "Checkers", to see if the name fits, and i think shes a girl (just pure guessing at this point, as i have no idea how to tell). She gets along well with Kachina, my male ringneck dove, but he is still deciding if her likes her or not. he appears to be torn between having to share "his" rooms, and wanting company. even though he isnt very tame/socialable with me, he may also be a bit jealous of the attention she receives. Checkers' foot is still about the same and im guessing she may eventually lose toes (her back toe on that foot looks real good, but the others are questionable). i owe too much at the vet to be able to take her in (havent been able to take my pet rat in either, although i did get him antibiotics from the pet store, and hes improving a bit), and im not all that sure if they would even see a pigeon. from pictures i took, it looks like the toe problems have probably always been there, but i still feel guilty. on a very positive note, she shows no effects of having a bad foot, and happily hops around. i line her little tank with a pillowcase to keep her foot padded, and rub a mix of coconut oil and tea tree oil on it from time to time, which helped the sores she developed last week heal very quickly. shes on a supplement for immune system support, as well as having diatom powder mixed in her food (for parasite control). Kachina is also being "treated" as a precaution. all in all she appears to be a very happy and well-adjusted little girl, very sweet, friendly, and responsive.

i will start another thread with more stories and pictures when i get a chance, since she has really come far the last couple of weeks. right now, Simon (my rat) takes up most of my energy, as well as my 19 year young kitty (who is a crf cat), and i also have the other critters to care for. thanks to everyone who has offered advise and support to help me provide for this special little baby!


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