# hawks



## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

did any one ever think about making a declaration to stop hawks?
i mean so you can get rid of them?
there is a law that said that you cant kill hawks,
but the also is a law if a declaration is whiten and signed by i think its 1000 people then the law has to be changed! IN MEAN IT WILL SAVE HUNDREDS of dollars each year on pigeons that a taken by a hawk we should do something its your diction, i cant do it my self!


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Considering That hawks are now federaly protected. It would be hard to change that. NOW a federal survey on certion breed of hawks THen perhaps they could come off the list. Also the right to protect your propery. This being pigeons might help. BUT as of now it looks bleak for the pigeon keepers. Fly birds as race birds, do get hawk smart. And if trained right. Less they get taken. The old cooper hawk in my books has made a strong recovery And is now a threat agin. BUT the goverment says we can not do anything as of now.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Are you clear that we can't kill Hawks?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I had a guy tell me that a game and wildlife guy had found a bunch of his birds bands in the hawks nests and that if they were a problem that they could trap and relocate the hawks. you may want to contact the fish and wildlife department if they become overwhelming. i have never heard of this before but heck. you may want to give em a call.


----------



## wallflower (Mar 30, 2008)

Vasyarersikov Are you saying to kill the hawks!!!!!!!!!!!   They are one of God's most beautiful creatures!!!How dare you suggest killing them on this forum or anywhere for that matter! And re lee to condone this as a moderator on this site!! You should be banned!!!All living things should be shown the same respect.


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wallflower said:


> Vasyarersikov Are you saying to kill the hawks!!!!!!!!!!!   They are one of God's most beautiful creatures!!!How dare you suggest killing them on this forum or anywhere for that matter! And re lee to condone this as a moderator on this site!! You should be banned!!!All living things should be shown the same respect.


Well pigeons are gods creatures also. And Nature must have its balance. When man decides balance it goes the wrong way over time. Look at the gray wolf. They were protected now they are being hunted agin You do not understand the whole picture here.


----------



## wallflower (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm sorry but it is you that doesn't understand the whole picture!!!! Read what you wrote,Nature decides the balance!!!!!!!!!! not humans. KILLING HAWKS IS NOT NATURAL!!!!!!!!!! They kill pigeons to survive naturaly.Will YOU die if one of your pigeons is eaten by a hawk?To suggest killing ANY animal shows your ignorance.You don't think it's wrong to kill a wolf? Anyone who kills a wolf should be...I won't write that here! With your obvious views on animals,I don't see how you could be a moderator on this site!


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't think Re Lee is "condoning" anything. But, as the moderator put it (very accurately, I think)....there is a big picture here, and it isn't very cut-and-dry. Yes, hawks, hunt, pigeons are prey...and pigeon folk have justification in wanting to protect their loved ones, too....just as hawk folks have some of that justification in their desires and beliefs.
So, although Vasya's 'thinking aloud' may be touching on a very sensitive subject....I don't think it's bad and there is a point to be made here....or at least discussed, no ?.


----------



## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Very well put re lee ! I agree 100% . There has to be a balance . And I'm going to give my unpopular viewpoint while I'm at it . 

Contact your fish and game department if you have a serious hawk problem , and discuss it with them . They can send out someone to check it out , and here in Mohave County AZ I think ( but not absolutely sure ) you can get a special permit to kill troublesome hawks . 


Even though there are hawks in my area , I havnt had any problems with them and my birds , along with all kinds of other predators . When I took up pigeons as a hobby , I knew that this is one of the risks and excepted it . The loss of a pij here and there is acceptable , but if I had a certain hawk or any other predator who moved in for free meals everyday I would deal with it accordingly . There are ways of doing it legally . 

Sorry if I offend anyone , but thats the way it is . Wallflower , I think you are the one who is ignorant about life .

Bob


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye said:


> I don't think Re Lee is "condoning" anything. But, as the moderator put it (very accurately, I think)....there is a big picture here, and it isn't very cut-and-dry. Yes, hawks, hunt, pigeons are prey...and pigeon folk have justification in wanting to protect their loved ones, too....just as hawk folks have some of that justification in their desires and beliefs.
> So, although Vasya's 'thinking aloud' may be touching on a very sensitive subject....I don't think it's bad and there is a point to be made here....or at least discussed, no ?.


We never do a very good job of discussing subjects like this one.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I think this discussion needs to be stopped or it's going to turn ugly. A new member has called one of the moderators and a very well loved and admired moderator I might add, ignorant. THAT will get you no where fast. It's against the law to kill a hawk. Period. Don't matter what any of us think about it. It's STILL against the law and all the discussion in the world on a forum like this isn't going to change one darn thing. It's only going to cause hard feelings. IMO, it should be left at that. 

See what I mean??? In the few seconds it took me to type the original post, someone else called another member ignorant. 
Keep it up and you'll get this thread locked.


----------



## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Since some of you apparently are against ANY killing for any reason , let me ask you a question . If you lived in an area with lots of rattlesnakes and you had small children and pets , are you saying that a person wouldnt be justified to kill these creatures if they intrude into your space and become a threat ? 

After all , most rattlers are very beautiful animals . 

Not trying to start an argument , just asking .


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

OK, folks,Let's take a deep breath here.
If this thread is to remain open, it must be kept civil. If opinions can't be made in that manner, please *do not post*.

First & foremost, *all* members have a right to their opinion, to include moderators. We may not *all* agree on *all *opinions, however, just the same everyone is entitled one.

With that said, & without reservation of being a moderator, I would *never* condone the killing of* any* bird, protected or not.  

The fact is, the sky is free territory to *all *birds. Nature takes it course. There *are* *no* boundaries. 

If a person feels the need to *free fly* their 'pet' (as opposed to feral) pigeons, for whatever reason, *they're* placing their birds in harm's way of a predator. This does not give that person the right to kill the predator. JMO

Cindy


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Charis said:


> We never do a very good job of discussing subjects like this one.


Boy did you get THAT right............


----------



## wallflower (Mar 30, 2008)

Hambone,I'm sure you could get a permit to kill pigeons for roosting on a building,would you do that too?I have a "troublesome" mockingbird that sings very early in the morning here and wakes me,should I kill him.What about the "troublesome"deer that eat my flowers,kill them? Why are these butchers allowed on here,did they not read the forum rules? "but the government says we cannot do anything as of now" sounds like she would kill them if it was legal,to me."save hundreds of dollars in pigeons" killing to save money?As long as YOUR birds aren't killed it's ok to do whatever you want?


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Wallflower ... R E Lee has simply stated how the law stands. He has not said anywhere that he agrees with killing them or anything else. I suggest you just read what people say, and not what you decide they may be thinking. Kindly do not be telling people whether or not they are fit to be moderators, either, or it is likely to be you who departs this site.

vasyapersikov ... We do not condone the killing of hawks on this site any more than we would condone the killing of pigeons. As for this half-baked stuff about a thousand people being able to get laws changed, well, don't you think if it were that easy it (and a load of other laws unpopular with various sections of society) would have been done by now? Any more killing talk from you and you also are on the way to finding another site to post on.

John


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wallflower said:


> Hambone,I'm sure you could get a permit to kill pigeons for roosting on a building,would you do that too?I have a "troublesome" mockingbird that sings very early in the morning here and wakes me,should I kill him.What about the "troublesome"deer that eat my flowers,kill them? Why are these butchers allowed on here,did they not read the forum rules? "but the government says we cannot do anything as of now" sounds like she would kill them if it was legal,to me."save hundreds of dollars in pigeons" killing to save money?As long as YOUR birds aren't killed it's ok to do whatever you want?


I myself do not harm hawks. And have lost 4 birds this season to the cooper. I do not trap hawks either. BUT if the law said I could trap them I would, rather then kill them. Pigeons get smater when the hawk is around. IF they are trained right. No open loft but flown hungry and trap fast. You seem a little to concerned on the small things that people say. Nature will balnce nature IF left alone by man. To protect all animals would upset nature. HAWKS in cities and towns. well that is not normal. BUT it is happening now days. Because hawks are in larger numbers then there naturel food supply In the winters. Man has changed nature forever. HOW when people grow in numbers animals homes are gone. And animals reduce there numbers through sickness And less breeding. Peopl;e do not do this. And never will. Sure certion parts of natures creeatures need protection. BUT only to the point they become reestablished. Then from there They do not need to overpopulate Or some othere creature is over fed on until it is threatoned. YOU say let nature do its balance. IT can not because people effect it. SO people must help from time to time. Sometimes the numbers have to be reduced to keep strengh and health strong. Or sickness sets in. BECAUSE of the lack of open range to the different creatures. I see you have pigeons. Do you have hawk problems. It is not about a hawk killing pigeons. BUT in some areas hawks kill many pigeons. Man brought in falcons to cities JUST to kill the ferals. NOW some have breeding falcons To the point all birds are not safe. Upset nature and you have the rath of nature. It would be wrong for me to kill the hawk. But would be safe for the hawk to be trapped and relocated. BUT I and others can not do this. Think about what is nature. Think how much nature is being controled at times by man. Protect when needed balance the control when needed. And nature will thrive for ever. Man will never destroy all man to balance nature. So man can only help so much to give back to nature.


----------

