# Keeping Cole - a found fledgling



## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Hello,

I recently found a feral fledgling and am raising him (quite successfully so far - thanks to you guys - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19983).

I have created a new thread here to seek your advice on keeping him, "Cole". I'll describe my plan below - please let me know what you think!  Is it even feasible? Would he be safe and happy?

The Plan

Keep Cole inside until he can gain at least 5' altitude by flying
Meanwhile, set up a hutch outside with all necessary acoutrements
Acclimatize Cole to living outside by having him be out there during the day, then bringing him inside at night, for about a week
Have him live outside for two weeks in the hutch (still no outside free-flight, indoor exercise only)
Take the door off the hutch, or otherwise make an opening, so Cole is free to come and go at all times

Background Info
I live in a dense section of San Francisco. By keeping Cole "outside", I mean on the deck outside my apartment. My apartment building is shoulder-to-shoulder with other buildings; the buildings of our block create a square with a space inside with some small gardens and sidewalks that the deck faces - there are a few pigeons that I usually see inside this space. The space is pretty small, so I assume that the pigeons also spend time on the sidewalks outside the square of buildings - busy sidewalks with lots of people that border four-lane streets. This is where I found Cole. Every six weeks or so I see a pigeon that has killed by a car within three blocks of my building.

Concerns

Once Cole leaves on the first day that the hutch door is open, will he be able to find his way home? Will he come back?
Is two weeks long enough to make him feel that the hutch is "home"?
*Is it too much risk for him to be free where I live?*
If I did keep him this way and it was successful, what happens when I move? I do plan to move within the next five years. Given the same hutch and two weeks of reacclimatization time at the new location (which may be anywhere from 0.25 to 40 miles away), will Cole adjust his sense of "home" and stay at the new place?

Cole and I have gotten attached to each other and I am excited to watch him develop into an adult. I would like to keep him, but my boyfriend has said that I can only keep him if he lives outside and is free to come and go. Otherwise I have to release him in Golden Gate Park. I want to decide soon whether I will be releasing him so I can socialize him with other pigeons, etc., as need be.

I know that the most likely outcome in keeping him this way is that, one day, he never comes back - either because he is actually a she and has found a mate to live with, or because he is injured or worse.... but the wonderful stories on this board give me hope that there could be a happy ending.

I feel like there is so much risk to him both in keeping him as described and in releasing him - from cars and dogs and mean people.... even if he lives with the flock at the Conservatory at Golden Gate Park, there is always the chance that the city might decide to get rid of the "pests" in inhumane ways  . What should I do? What would you do?

Danielle (& Cole)


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Danielle,

Have you checked these links?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10874

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11919

I wouldn't think about releasing him for quite some time until he is fully grown and has no health issues at all.

Also, you have the option of getting help from our very knowledgable rehab members who live around your area, they have the experience and know-how. They can help assess his needs and any health issues he may have.


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Trees Gray, 

Don't worry - I'm not considering releasing him now! 

If I decide that his end goal would be release, I would of course not release him until he was completely ready - and I know he is a long way off. Thank you for the helpful links; they will be useful if release is the best option.

I posted for advice on trying to decide whether to release him or keep him when the time comes, so I can plan ahead and act accordingly.

Danielle


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

dlgilbert4 said:


> *I posted for advice on trying to decide whether to release him or keep him when the time comes, so I can plan ahead and act accordingly.*
> Danielle


Thanks for all your care and concern over this bird.

I just thought you might like to have some experienced rehabbers help you make the right decision in the birds best interests.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

dlgilbert4 said:


> Hello,
> ..........
> 
> Concerns
> ...


Hi Danielle and Cole,

Not sure if there's a way of knowing whether or not s/he'll come back w/certainty. They are a social bird, so if Cole hooks up w/a group of 
ferals, it's conceivable that s/he will follow along w/the group.

It's probably premature to think about releasing until the bird's health 
checks out and you have a sense of the level of bonding. When the bird
starts to discover it's flight capabilities, will the bird be able to free fly inside the house somewhere to develop flight muscles?

You should know in advance that members here that have allowed birds 
out of doors unprotected have had some sad experiences around the issue.
Check out Victor's thread about Tooter and see what he went through.

In SF, it's also the raptor program that is in place that makes their lives so 
difficult. I guess what I'm wondering is, if it would be fair to Cole to ask h/her
to 'bounce' between being feral and a pet. Then again, it may just never get to that as when joining the ferals during the day, it may not come to mind to return to the hutch. 

For you to get an idea about training birds to home, you should go 
to PT's section on Homing & Racing Pigeons and read up on the topic:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Just keep in mind that this is a feral and some of the homing instinct may
not be as strong as in birds bred for this.

I know I didn't give you yesses and no-s, but it doesn't seem as clear cut
as that right now in terms of the releasability issue, so maybe you'll have to be in the flex mode and have contingency strategies, which is I think what you are trying to do with the issues you've raised anyway.

fp


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

dlgilbert4 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> Cole and I have gotten attached to each other and I am excited to watch him develop into an adult. I would like to keep him, but my boyfriend has said that I can only keep him if he lives outside and is free to come and go.
> ...


Hi Danielle and Cole,
Glad to see you are getting along so well, lucky bird and lady. I think you should keep him how you want to and what is best for Cole, rather than have the boyfriend tell you that you can only keep him outside  Who knows, as Cole grows up, he may become less tame, then again, he may decide to be a pet all on his own. There are a lot of bad things going on the the big city as relates to our feathered friends as you have observed, and your spot in SF does not sound particularly pigeon-friendly. Cole may have become accustomed enough to people that he won't have the street-smarts to avoid bad situations. 
Are there any wildlife refuges or far-from-the-city parks with pigie flocks that you could take Cole to (if and when the time comes to let him go) that would safer than where you reside. If I remember right (and it's been a long, long time since I've been in the Bay area) there were several national and state wildlife refuges in the area that might be good places for him to find a nice pigeon family and raise up his own babies. If he were my charge, I'd feel better letting him go in a large nature area rather than in a city-controlled park or on a city balcony. 
Just my 2 cents.


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Well, flitsnowzoom, if I had everyone's two cents, then I would have a wealth of knowledge.  And that's the goal, isn't it? 

Danielle


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I don't think SF is a great place to release a pigeon. I'd go for somewhere like Santa Rosa or San Rafael where the birds have a semi-rural lifestyle, are healthy and don't have to dodge so many cars.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

dlgilbert4 said:


> Concerns
> 
> Once Cole leaves on the first day that the hutch door is open, will he be able to find his way home? Will he come back?





There is only one way to KNOW if he'll come back and that's to let him go and see. Some of the members here race our birds and we have racing/homing pigeons. Birds that specifically BRED to come home. NONE of us KNOW when we let our birds out for the first time who will stay, who will leave and not ever come back. It's all a big gamble. The majority of them do exactly what they are supposed to do, but not all of them. If we could tell who would do what, we'd know who to let out and who NOT to let out. 


dlgilbert4 said:


> [*]Is two weeks long enough to make him feel that the hutch is "home"?


Actually the same answer as above. Two weeks SHOULD be sufficient, but there's really no way to tell FOR SURE. 


dlgilbert4 said:


> [*]*Is it too much risk for him to be free where I live?*


I haven't followed this whole thread, but it seems that you live in the city? It's always a "risk" when you let them fly free, but in the city, there's a bigger risk in my opinion. He would have more than trees and open sky to contend with. 


dlgilbert4 said:


> [*]If I did keep him this way and it was successful, what happens when I move? I do plan to move within the next five years. Given the same hutch and two weeks of reacclimatization time at the new location (which may be anywhere from 0.25 to 40 miles away), will Cole adjust his sense of "home" and stay at the new place?



If you were successful in getting him to "home" to where you are now, taking a risk of trying to "re-home" him would put you right back at square one. You wouldn't KNOW until you tried it. 

I'm certainly not trying to discourage you......only pointing out all the uncertain elements of what you are trying to figure out. 
There is really only one way to know for certain that Cole would always be safe. That's to never let him fly free. Other than that, you have to decide how much of a risk you are willing to take.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

dlgilbert4 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently found a feral fledgling and am raising him (quite successfully so far - thanks to you guys - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19983).
> 
> ...



Hi Danleille,


'The Plan' is bad for many reasons...


Did you miss the part where I went into considerable detail about socializeing him to the wild/feral others by bringing him to a feral flock, whom you can feed, so he can peck and graze with him, while you stay close and watch him, and offer praise and so on, before he is "flying"...?


Your worries appear to be based on not having considered or grasped the simplicity and importance for him, of those mentions...nor of having understood anything about how they grow up...or their Natural History in any manner.


Let me know?

Happy to supply info again, or in more detail...


This is not hard to do, and will mean everything to him and his Life ahead.

If you just "keep him" and cage him untill some hard 'release' without ever having let him socialize with the wild/feral others when he WAS still a pre-flier, it can make it much much more difficult for him.

Flying 5 feet in hight means nothing...it means he will perish if given the 'bum's rush' at that point.

Rather than trying to invent your own naive overview based on kn owing nothing, or to abuse the feelings of 'attatchment' which if ingenuous, should defer to his needs and not those of yours which will compromise him, it might be good for his sake if you consider the experience of those who do this all the time, who have thought it all out, who are willing to describe simple steps and real practices, and, who do it for the sake of the Birds, and for the satisfaction of raising them.

If you want to make him into a compromised 'pet', or if you want him to have his own confident Life and have some continuity for it based on his developemental needs...there will be just these differences.

Your situation is not and should not be his 'home'...it is his starting place for his Life ahead...


He is not going to find a mate for quite a few months or longer, years maybe, after he is a self sufficient and adult and free Bird...

Your 'home' is where for now, he grows up enough TO be self sufficient enough for his "release", and to be watched over by you for him TO acquire his socialized-to-feral-others experiences...and it is the base from which his forays with you to meet and peck shoulder-to-shoulder with feral others can occur untill he is almost flying, then to care for him indoors...till he is 'released'.

"Home" for them is where they as adults, with a Mate, build a Nest and make their Babys. Home is not where they grew up, at least not like you are thinking anyway.

He should have no reason to 'come back', any more than you are still living with your parents or surrogate parents, sleeping in a Crib or kid's bed, because they raised you to be unable to have your own Life.

If you had an indoor flock who fly free every day, then he might have 'reason; to join 'them' AS his flock.

If you want him to be raised for his sake, for his confidence and skills and modes of awareness, with as little compromise to him as possible, please re-think and re-consider this.


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Hi Phil,

I did read your recommendations - I just haven't had a chance to do it yet. I'm in my last semester of graduate school and working 12+ hours a day on my thesis... plus I don't have a car. I will be able to get to the park this weekend and have him feed with others, but I'm not going to be able to do it until then.

I'm just trying to plan ahead. 

Thank you all for your advice,
Danielle


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

On the plus side, it is looking more like I might be able to convince the boyfriend that we can keep him as a pet... we shall see. I want Cole to be safe and happy, and that seems like the best way to do it. Then again, maybe it's too selfish to keep him as he is supposed to be 'wild'... people on this board seem to get so much enjoyment out of their birds and I have always wanted a bird (never really imagined a pigeon, though )... I can see how the rehabbers here might have a different opinions than the pet owners on keeping a 'wild' bird that is likely otherwise releasable.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

dlgilbert4 said:


> On the plus side, it is looking more like I might be able to convince the boyfriend that we can keep him as a pet... we shall see. I want Cole to be safe and happy, and that seems like the best way to do it. Then again, maybe it's too selfish to keep him as he is supposed to be 'wild'... people on this board seem to get so much enjoyment out of their birds and I have always wanted a bird (never really imagined a pigeon, though )... I can see how the rehabbers here might have a different opinions than the pet owners on keeping a 'wild' bird that is likely otherwise releasable.



Hi Danielle, 



Making him into a pet - particularly under the circumstances and conditions you describe - will not make him "safe and happy"...you are projecting and imposing your own naive inexperience and lack of understanding on him, out of indifference to him, and this is not at all anything like "care" would be in any real sense of careing about him.

Rather than exploiting his situation to make him into a pet, why not do what is right for him instead? For his 'happiness' and his Life?


If you want a Pigeon Pet, there are many entirely sweet, charming, intelligent, fun, and emotionally sensitive non-releaseable adult Birds and mated pairs even, who need good and careing homes.

People who do rescue and rehabilitation Work will be glad to provide such Birds to good careing Homes any time...

But a good and careing home is not something based on the emotional needyness, unprepared impulse, indifference or imposition...it is something based on deferences to the Natural History and health and comfort and responsible understanding OF the prospective 'pet'...and so far, you are not 'there'...you are not in the Ballpark.

Please do not merely get lost or befuddled in some new-found 'feeling' of 'attatchment' since a temporarily dependant Creature came into your life.

Look at it responsibly instead.


The 'attatchment' is supposed to be pro-tem, to 'bond with' and to care for him and guide him TO his independance, which is what their parents do...
Not to be a 'Spider' who happens to have had some unlucky prey fall into their 'web', whom they will keep for their own sakes, and care nothing for the sake of the 'prey'...aside from self delusion.

Let this be a learning experience...about you, and about him...


There will be other Orphan Baby or youngster Pigeons, sick Pigeons, injured Pigeons...all you could ever want and then some, if you decide you want more...or want to do this again.


You describe nothing as for having any real ammenities to offer a 'pet' anyway...and you know nothing whatever about Birds.


Life in a 'hutch' on a 'porch' is hardly what any Pigeon needs or would find agreeable. And would mean a short miserable and likely sickly lonely 'life'...and stuffing more of them into a 'hutch' is hardly going to make the 'lonley' part being 'answered, offset all the miserable rest.


Please...

Just take a breath and try and see all this from some calm over-view.


This little Bird's Life was inturrupted...something happenned to seperate him from his parents.

You found him...

Your job or devotion can be to be his surrogate parent, and to raise him right and let him have what he needs to grow up correctly and to be free. 

This usually means a happy, wholesome, innate and reciprocal temporary bonding or attatchment which will be dissolved BY him and by you, as he becomes independant. This is the wholesome 'Law' of Nature, and is also the common sense of any wholesome parent to know and honor.


If you like the experience, and if you learn a few things, then you are better prepared for a next time, if you are interested in a next time.

If you want to have a Pigeon Pet, please wait untill you are living somewhere which can have appropriate and real ammenities...and also even more importantly, wait untill you know and understand a great deal more about all of it...and have the emotional maturity to handle it so you are not merely exploiting someone else's compromise for your sake, at the expense of their reasonable needs otherwise, and in indifference to them while making self-patronizeing mentions of 'careing'.

Careing needs to be informed and appropriate...or else it is horror, idiocy, cruelty, indifference...and insensitivty to the experience and reality of the 'cared for'.

For him his Life is "everything"...

For you it is a passing impulse of unexamined emotional self-indulgence.


I say, respect yourself and him and do the right thing...this way you both benifit.

Otherwise, no one benifits.


It is that simple.



Best wishes..!

'Dutch Uncle' Phil
Las Vegas


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm not one to get in a big debate when I know that nothing I say is going to change anyones' mind.........so, while you are deciding whether to "keep" Cole or "turn him/her loose"...........read just this one post...........I can't tell you whether you should keep or not keep Cole and no one else, in my opinion, should be telling you what you should or should not do............

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=192038&postcount=20


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Phil,

All I asked for was help and advice given my current circumstances.

The only reason I even thought to keep him in a hutch is because a hutch was heartily recommended by forum members to house a young bird in this thread:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19541

Many members of this forum have been so kind, respectful, and considerate to other newbies who have considered/are considering keeping a found bird:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20061
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19427
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18679
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19729

I was hoping to receive the same treatment. I have not written a negative word and I have taken all advice to heart. I don't have a car and I live in an apartment in the middle of the city: I can't release him in Santa Cruz, I can't drive to San Rafael to give him to the rehab clinic there, I can't build a multi-thousand-dollar loft. I'm in the last semester of graduate school: I can't spend two hours a day walking him to and from the park to feed with the pigeons there. 

He would be dead if no one had picked him up, and given that he was seen out there on the busy sidewalk an hour before I even got home, no one else was going to pick him up. You don't need to attack me or accuse me of not "careing" [sic]. If I didn't care, I would have left him on the sidewalk, thinking "ew - pigeon!" or whatever it is that people use to justify such actions. In the week that I have been privileged to take care of him, Cole has progressed from formula to seeds, water, and bathing. I tend to him every three hours and provide a warm, clean place to live and grow. I took him to an avian vet and paid for his medical exam and tests. I have spent literally tens of hours reading the threads here to learn from others' knowledge and experience.

I have three options:
1. Keep him in a hutch outside and let him fly and be free only inside the apartment.
2. Keep him in a hutch outside, allowing him to come and go as he wishes.
3. Release him in the park after minimal contact with other pigeons.

In any case other than (1), he will be at moderate to severe risk from cars, dogs, and people. 

Please do not accuse me of being indifferent or not caring. Nor am I needy (I certainly don't need another pet - I already have a dog and cat, both rescued from shelters, and a 120 gallon fish tank) nor impulsive. I am doing my best to be prepared by deciding the outcome of his care as early as possible with as much advice as possible so I can provide him his best quality of life given our circumstances.

Please help me in that objective instead of putting me down.

Danielle


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I'd be happy to drive the little guy to wherever you want. That is if he fits the release standards. But, he may be a happy pigeon living with you it all depends.

In the 14 yrs I've had a pet pigeon, I've found that they're very happy in captivity.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

It is always a difficult decision whether to release or to keep or find a home where a pigeon will be a beloved pet. Here's just a couple thoughts of mine and how I do things.

I would rarely consider releasing a single pigeon to the wild .. only if it were an adult and already experienced in the ways of the world when it came to me .. never a single youngster. If I determine that a pigeon wishes to be free and is healthy and strong and did not come to me as an adult, then I will wait until I have 4 or more such pigeons to be released to together. I let them become little family units here with me and then release them together. I have found that they are more likely to quickly assimilate into the flock at the release site doing it this way.

I have also found that most, not all but most, pigeons are happy to have the company of at least one other pigeon, and preferably a pigeon of the opposite sex or two females. I do have a few male/male pairs and a couple of singleton males who want nothing to do with any other pigeon regardless of sex. Most, however, are happy to be part of a little pigeon family.

I do believe that single pigeons kept as pets can be quite happy and can have an excellent quality of life. I think it's a matter of the housing, ability to safely fly, and how much time and interaction the bird gets with the caretaker.

I do firmly believe that a pigeon will "tell" you if it wants to be free. Some clearly send that message to me and others clearly send a "I like it here just fine with the room service and all .. just kindly leave things as they are" message.

Fortunately (I guess), I get so very many feral pigeons each year, that I have a fairly easy time of it in putting together little groups to be released based upon my *ass*umption that this is what they want. The difficulty for me comes with those who make it clearly known that they have no interest in living out there on their own in the big, wide world. Those I have to keep as pets or have to find homes for where they will be kept as pets.

Danielle .. it's just not an easy decision, but I think you and Cole will make the right one when the time comes.

Terry


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## dlgilbert4 (Apr 5, 2007)

Hello JGregg and Terry,

Thank you for your advice and support. A general consensus seems to be that I should wait and see how things go with the remainder of Cole's progression from youngster to young adult, then ask for advice/assistance once it becomes more clear which end-solution is most appropriate.

Perhaps the best thing for me to do is stop worrying about the future for a minute and enjoy his time as a squeaker.  It seems like he makes so much progress every day. Eating seeds, then drinking water, then taking a bath -today he hopped and flapped to gain about 10" of air. 

I'll continue posting updates about his progress on the "Found Fledgling in SF" thread in the Found forum.

Again, thanks,
Danielle


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

dlgilbert4 said:


> Perhaps the best thing for me to do is stop worrying about the future for a minute and enjoy his time as a squeaker.  It seems like he makes so much progress every day. Eating seeds, then drinking water, then taking a bath -today he hopped and flapped to gain about 10" of air. Danielle


I think that is an excellent plan .. they are such delightful youngsters .. enjoy Cole to the fullest!  

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, here-here! Enjoy that precious time-frame while you can. Cole is such a
sweetheart.  

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Danielle, I release basically the way Terry does - never, ever a single one. Also, you just seem to know those that want to be free and those that have their comfort zone with you. 

It is not easy taking a pigeon and "introducing" them to a flock - at least for us. If you have ferals, like Phil, who come to your home that would be an ideal situation but most of us do not so we simply locate an area where there is an established large flock of pigeons, old buildings, a water source like a stream and release them. We take food back to that location for a while and make sure that none are still hanging around the release site.

My biggest concern is always that they will not stay where we released them and instead try to find their way back home. Releasing is the hardest part of rehabbing and I get sick when the time comes.

As others have said, (and Scarlett O'hara  ) worry about that later.


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