# New hatchlings...



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

After two previous tries, we are the proud grandparents of two ugly little babies. I don't care what people think about babies being cute...these things are tiny little featherless pink squirmy things! 

As some of you may recall, we have had a couple previous attempts at babies by one of our pairs. Chloe & Scooter are now almost a year old, and their third set of eggs hatched this morning. Scooter was on the babies all day, and we saw him feed the babies a number of times. Now in the evening, Chloe is on the babies, and Scooter is back to strutting around the coop asserting his dominance with the other birds.

Another pair (Bunny & Speckle) are sitting on eggs that were laid on September 12th and 14th. Hopefully theirs will hatch in another week or so.

Very exciting times for my kids!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Congratulations! How about some pictures of the ugly grandfids? 

Terry


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> Congratulations! How about some pictures of the ugly grandfids?
> 
> Terry


LOL!
Ya...Congratulations! And where are the pics


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

how fun for the kids...next thing banding them..lol..my first time doing it was pretty funny..


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I want to see! Congratulations!


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## Pigeon80error (Sep 25, 2010)

TAWhatley said:


> Congratulations! How about some pictures of the ugly grandfids?
> 
> Terry


hhaaa nice one


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

View attachment 17209
View attachment 17210


Just to prove that my grandpigeons are ugly!

These pictures were taken October 1st - five days old. I banded them on day six.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Those are some plump little youngsters. Looks like their parents are doing a fine job.


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

lol i disagree on the ugly part they look adorable congratulations on the new babies . third times the charm


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

always the most rewarding part of pigeon keeping i think.Nice squeakers.


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

I think they look fantastic - nice, chubby, clean squeakers!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Those are some plump little youngsters. Looks like their parents are doing a fine job.


They sure are. When you pick them up, their crops are so full it's like holding a bean-bag! 

Looking forward to seeing what the colors will be. Mom is a black and white bald head, and Dad is a red saddle.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

perfect squabies!!!


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Awww! So cute and chubby...NOT ugly!


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Sweet babies


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

They're eleven days old today. They're starting to get feathers, so they're not quite as ugly at this point. They've grown so fast that it is comical to watch their mom try to sit on them. She looks like she is going to fall off!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> They're eleven days old today. They're starting to get feathers, so they're not quite as ugly at this point. They've grown so fast that it is comical to watch their mom try to sit on them. She looks like she is going to fall off!


 she has got to keep those babies warm somehow, in her mind ..should be getting cold up there in Mass...


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Soooooo CUTE


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Today the babies are three weeks old. They have feathered out nicely, and they are both taking after their dad. He is a red saddle. Mom is a baldhead black and white, but she didn't seem to have much influence on the outcome. We have another baby (single) that hatched last Sunday (October 10th). He/she is as ugly as the other two were. I will be banding it tomorrow. Interested in seeing how this one turns out. Mom is a yellow, and dad is a black and white badge.

On another note, two of the pigeons in my kit box paired up and a few days ago I found a pair of eggs on the floor. I took them out, and figured what the heck...put them in a nestbox with a pair of rolldowns I have adopted. Surprise, surprise...the male has started sitting on them. The female doesn't even look at them. I guess she figures they're not hers since she didn't lay them. The male must be a little bit dumber than the female. 

Think the male can raise the babies himself if they hatch? I'm considering replacing one with a fake egg, as then he would only need to raise one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't put them under pigeons that didn't have eggs around the same time.


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## yvannava (Jul 10, 2010)

i wanna see some pics


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. Pictures of the babies would be nice.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't put them under pigeons that didn't have eggs around the same time.


Why not? My understanding was that the reason to give them to fosters that recently had eggs, was so they would think the eggs were theirs and would hatch and raise the young. If one of the birds is incubating the eggs, obviously he feels that his lady must have laid them.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay...pictures. The first two are the original babies at three weeks of age. The third picture is the new baby at 6 days old (and still really ugly!)

View attachment 17337


View attachment 17338


View attachment 17339


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## yvannava (Jul 10, 2010)

some nice looking birds. looking healthy keep it up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh how cute they all are. And ptras, you do not know beauty from ugly. LOL. They are just adorable.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

love the color of those babies!!.. but I can't figure out why you would put foster eggs in a nest of a hen that has not laid eggs?..(.head scratch)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ptras said:


> Why not? My understanding was that the reason to give them to fosters that recently had eggs, was so they would think the eggs were theirs and would hatch and raise the young. If one of the birds is incubating the eggs, obviously he feels that his lady must have laid them.


It just doesn't work that way. She knows they aren't hers. You can't just stick eggs under any pair, anytime.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> It just doesn't work that way. She knows they aren't hers. You can't just stick eggs under any pair, anytime.


Well...I guess the hen isn't THAT much smarter than the cock. Guess who was sitting on the eggs this morning when I went to feed them? They have been switching off egg-sitting duty all day.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Well...I guess the hen isn't THAT much smarter than the cock. Guess who was sitting on the eggs this morning when I went to feed them? They have been switching off egg-sitting duty all day.


I guess you can just candle them all, if or when she lays her real ones, and should beable to tell which ones are the foster eggs... just hope their crop milk is in time with these foster eggs.....


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I guess you can just candle them all, if or when she lays her real ones, and should be able to tell which ones are the foster eggs... just hope their crop milk is in time with these foster eggs.....


The eggs were laid on Thursday & Friday, and were not incubated until I gave them to Taffy & Artie (get it...Artie = RD or rolldown.) I would assume that the incubation period is nineteen days, which will give them plenty of time for their crop milk to come in. If the hen lays eggs, I will be disposing of them anyway, as I do not want to raise birds where the parents are both rolldowns.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

For sure that third one is an ugly little rascal, but day by day he will little get prettier. I really don't see how anyone could think a newly hatched pigeon is cute. I guess most people think it is just polite to say they're cute.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think they are so homely that they ARE cute. Then they grow into beautiful.


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## yvannava (Jul 10, 2010)

the babies look like they are mad all the time thats why they look funny.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> The eggs were laid on Thursday & Friday, and were not incubated until I gave them to Taffy & Artie (get it...Artie = RD or rolldown.) I would assume that the incubation period is nineteen days, which will give them plenty of time for their crop milk to come in. If the hen lays eggs, I will be disposing of them anyway, as I do not want to raise birds where the parents are both rolldowns.


you will not know which egg is which, unless you candle them, the ones that are developing farther along are of course are the foster eggs, as far as the crop milk timing, not sure what produces it, the movement in the shell? or just the timing from when their real eggs are layed.. so it is possible for you to be too late or too early with this foster pair with the crop milk production..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Oops...duplicate.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> you will not know which egg is which, unless you candle them, the ones that are developing farther along are of course are the foster eggs, as far as the crop milk timing, not sure what produces it, the movement in the shell? or just the timing from when their real eggs are layed.. so it is possible for you to be too late or too early with this foster pair with the crop milk production..


I don't know about the hen, but the cock's crop milk production should be dependent on how long he sits on the egg. There is no physiological "trigger" the way there *may* be with the hen.

Easy to tell the eggs apart if she lays...the good ones are the ones with the red crayon mark.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I don't know about the hen, but the cock's crop milk production should be dependent on how long he sits on the egg. There is no physiological "trigger" the way there *may* be with the hen.
> 
> Easy to tell the eggs apart if she lays...the good ones are the ones with the red crayon mark.



my e.s.p must not have been working...lol.. smarty pants...lol... let us know how it works out... I have never done it like this before..without eggs from both pairs..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

But if the hen doesn't accept them as hers, and won't sit on them, the male will probably get tired of doing it alone and leave them. I suppose if she lays, you can take her eggs and hope she thinks that the others are hers. Still, if they hatch much earlier than hers would have, then she won't have crop milk for them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> But if the hen doesn't accept them as hers, and won't sit on them, the male will probably get tired of doing it alone and leave them. I suppose if she lays, you can take her eggs and hope she thinks that the others are hers. Still, if they hatch much earlier than hers would have, then she won't have crop milk for them.


that is what I was thinking, but he said she was sitting them also... which surprized me.. I wonder too if she was getting ready to lay.. and she sits these..will she just lay hers or absorb them??? or could it cause a problem if she has an egg developing in her?... I dunno..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> that is what I was thinking, but he said she was sitting them also... which surprized me.. I wonder too if she was getting ready to lay.. and she sits these..will she just lay hers or absorb them??? or could it cause a problem if she has an egg developing in her?... I dunno..


Since Saturday evening, they have both been taking turns on the egg. It is also possible that she isn't a hen. It's a young bird that hasn't mated as far as I know. Maybe I have a couple of cocks who both think the other is a hen?  They act just like a mated pair. When one gets up to eat, the other will head right for the nest. I guess all I can do is wait and see...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Since Saturday evening, they have both been taking turns on the egg. It is also possible that she isn't a hen. It's a young bird that hasn't mated as far as I know. Maybe I have a couple of cocks who both think the other is a hen?  They act just like a mated pair. When one gets up to eat, the other will head right for the nest. I guess all I can do is wait and see...


I have two hens on a baby now and they do just fine..two males I would think would also.. if they are acting like a pair....guess they are.. do you know how to hand feed babies?..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> I have two hens on a baby now and they do just fine..two males I would think would also.. if they are acting like a pair....guess they are.. do you know how to hand feed babies?..


Nope...and not gonna learn. I'm good with the hand feeding after they are two weeks old.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> that is what I was thinking, but he said she was sitting them also... which surprized me.. * I wonder too if she was getting ready to lay.. and she sits these..will she just lay hers or absorb them??? or could it cause a problem if she has an egg developing in her?... I dunno..*





I'm pretty sure that if she were getting ready to lay, she would lay hers also. I don't think these two eggs would stop that. Let's hope not anyway.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> Nope...and not gonna learn. I'm good with the hand feeding after they are two weeks old.


tsk, tsk... LOL.... perhaps the wife can step in if you ever need to save a youngin... it most always happens at some point or another when keeping pigeons.. I don't like it either, but I do keep hand rearing formula in the freezer just in case..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

I candled the eggs yesterday at around ten days old. One is developing well, and the other is still liquid gold (yolk) inside. I'm going to pull that one and replace it with a fake egg. The birds are still taking turns sitting on the eggs. I'm leaning towards them both being males, as there is no sign of mating behavior between them, and no eggs despite them being in that coop for six weeks. The person who gave them to me thought they were male/female, but they were still young and unmated.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Back to my two original ugly babies. The dad is a red saddle, and the mom is a black & white baldhead. The babies are now a month old, and they are both saddles. One is a paler reddish color (dilute red?) and the other is grayish blue (dilute black?). My other single ugly baby's dad is a black & white badge, and its mom is a yellow. That one is mostly black, but shows some of its mom's yellow at the tips of most feathers. Very unusual look. I'll see if I can get pictures in the next couple of days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looking forward to the pics.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay...what's the color? Kinda looks green to me. This baby is three weeks old today. Finally started not being ugly. 

View attachment 17422


View attachment 17423


View attachment 17424


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> I candled the eggs yesterday at around ten days old. One is developing well, and the other is still liquid gold (yolk) inside. I'm going to pull that one and replace it with a fake egg. The birds are still taking turns sitting on the eggs. I'm leaning towards them both being males, as there is no sign of mating behavior between them, and no eggs despite them being in that coop for six weeks. The person who gave them to me thought they were male/female, but they were still young and unmated.


I swapped out the bad egg with a plastic one filled with grain. The female? was on the eggs, and she treated me as if they were hers. She wing-slapped me and pecked at me when I went for the eggs. I guess we'll have to see what all happens. It is fourteen days today, so I expect a hatching within the next week.


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Nice looking bird!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very cute. Gray? /Does have a green tint to it doesn't it?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That squeaker looks beautiful.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Ptras...

I would think that Becky (MaryofExeter) would be able to help you with IDing the color(s) of your babies...

About your question of one parent raising a baby alone.... Not sure about ONE parent raising two, but I can definitely say that ONE parent *can*, indeed, raise one baby.

Peter Pied Piper, the Frank Lloyed Wright nest builder of ASU fame, lost his mate and raised one baby all alone...very, very well, I might add. AND, he was very devoted!

When the squeaker was close to being able to leave the nest, he brought home a new mate. They wanted the nest to lay eggs and start another family. The baby hated the "step"mother and would not budge, no matter how much they pushed and shoved!

They finally started another nest a few windows away. When the baby decided to leave, he/she would sit next to dad while he was nest sitting in the mornings!

I hear what you are saying about "ugly," but that word is always in the eyes of the beholder.  And, I also go with "so ugly, it's cute." 'Course, don't tell the parents that they have an ugly baby! That could earn you a beak strike and Wing Fu, not to mention pooping on you! 

Look forward to more pictures! Those babies are gonna be beauties!!

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> I swapped out the bad egg with a plastic one filled with grain. The female? was on the eggs, and she treated me as if they were hers. She wing-slapped me and pecked at me when I went for the eggs. I guess we'll have to see what all happens. It is fourteen days today, so I expect a hatching within the next week.


Well...I guess it was really fifteen days for this post, as the egg hatched today on what would be day eighteen. When I went down to feed this pair today after work, the male(?) was sitting on the nest all hunched over. I decided to check despite the hazard of getting wing-slapped. Sure enough, I got wing slapped, but not before I was able to see a tiny pink (ugly!) baby underneath him. A little later, I witnessed him feeding the baby. Hopefully all will be well with this experiment!


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## cubanlofts (Sep 3, 2010)

mmmmmmm, ugly ehh, i bet u they think the same about humans, lol


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

not at all ugly...the babies r too cute..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> Well...I guess it was really fifteen days for this post, as the egg hatched today on what would be day eighteen. When I went down to feed this pair today after work, the male(?) was sitting on the nest all hunched over. I decided to check despite the hazard of getting wing-slapped. Sure enough, I got wing slapped, but not before I was able to see a tiny pink (ugly!) baby underneath him. A little later, I witnessed him feeding the baby. Hopefully all will be well with this experiment!


I have witnessed both birds sitting on the baby, and both of them feeding the baby. I've come to the conclusion that they are both males, and that they both think the other one is the female. 

I don't know if being a foster is a factor, but the baby seems to be growing pretty slowly. It is seven days old today, but it looks more like a three or four day baby. It's eyes just opened yesterday. It's small enough that I am holding off on banding it for at least another day or two. I'll keep y'all up to date, and post pictures if I can ever get home from work before dark again!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ptras said:


> I have witnessed both birds sitting on the baby, and both of them feeding the baby. I've come to the conclusion that they are both males, and that they both think the other one is the female.
> 
> I don't know if being a foster is a factor, but the baby seems to be growing pretty slowly. It is seven days old today, but it looks more like a three or four day baby. It's eyes just opened yesterday. It's small enough that I am holding off on banding it for at least another day or two. I'll keep y'all up to date, and post pictures if I can ever get home from work before dark again!


Being a foster wouldn't make the baby grow more slowly. Maybe it is sick? Are you sure they are feeding it enough?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It is a Silver dark check (or t-pattern, whichever you like to use)  Or in other words, dilute blue DC.

It is also slate, which is why the beak and skin are light colored and why the bird is a darker color with the albescent (white) strip missing on the edge of the tail.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> It is a Silver dark check (or t-pattern, whichever you like to use)  Or in other words, dilute blue DC.
> 
> It is also slate, which is why the beak and skin are light colored and why the bird is a darker color with the albescent (white) strip missing on the edge of the tail.


I like "dilute blue dark check"!


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> Well...I guess it was really fifteen days for this post, as the egg hatched today on what would be day eighteen. When I went down to feed this pair today after work, the male(?) was sitting on the nest all hunched over. I decided to check despite the hazard of getting wing-slapped. Sure enough, I got wing slapped, but not before I was able to see a tiny pink (ugly!) baby underneath him. A little later, I witnessed him feeding the baby. Hopefully all will be well with this experiment!


The baby is doing well, although it still seems to be a bit behind where I would expect it to be. It is nineteen days old today, and it looks like my prior babies did at about fourteen days. However, it seems healthy, active and well-fed. Interesting thing - the baby is almost all white. Not at all what I would expect for a "Turtle". (Its dad is a Chocolate, and its mom is an Almond. I guess to be a true turtle, it needs some Caramel too!)  I'll see if I can get pictures of this little one today.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Can't wait to see the little "turtle"!


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