# chisolm trail health plan



## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i have decided that im gonna try this chisolm trail health plan that goes on the feed and in the water.my question is when you put this stuff on the feed,what oils has anyone on here been using to make the stuff adhere to the feed?i saw a list of oils on the site that you can use,i was just curious if anyone on here does it,and what do they prefer to use.back in the day we used to put certain medications on the feed that werent very water soluble.for the life of me i cant remember what i was using.help!

i have heard very good reports of this health plan from some fanciers i trust,so i feel like i have to try it.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i know there has to be someone on here that uses this stuff....help


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

We haven't used the stuff, but whenever we need something to stick to the feed, we use light olive oil. I'm sure there's a lot of other oils people use that are good for the pigeons.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

thanks mary.i couldnt remember which i used before.their site has alot of oils listed.im thinkin i will give that stuff a try.i have heard great things about it.anyway,thanks for the advice.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> i know there has to be someone on here that uses this stuff....help


Well, I did read your post and I did use the stuff years ago. Back in 2001 and 2002 I believe? To be honest, I don't recall it being anything that I was willing to spend that much money on again. BUT.........I WAS new to pigeons and racing, so it's possible that I just didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for.  So..........I decided to just not say anything. Heck, the product may have even changed since the time I used it. 
SO.......you can let us know how it works.  
Did you see the pictures I posted the other day of my birds droppings? My birds get feed, grit, pic pot, ACV once a week, vitamins once a week and get their vaccinations every year. That's all I do. When we first got our birds, I was on constant look out for anything that would make my birds "be the best they could be".......spent money on bath salts....... when I could go to Wal-Mart and buy 3 boxes of Borax for the same price as a pound of that stuff. 
I'm just not sold on all the hooplah in the pigeon products department........that certainly doesn't mean there's not good stuff out there...I just gave up spending money on trying to find it. So far, what I do works for me. And there's someone around every corner who swears by what they do and I'm sure their birds are just as healthy as mine. 
I guess, you don't know till you try it........no matter what anyone else says.
Just my 2 cents since you asked (twice  )


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

thanks renee.ive always done similiar to what you do.i have been listening to pigeon radio alot lately and i have more than once heard these guys say they are using the stuff,and what a difference they claim it makes.most of those guys are old-school like me.while i am hesitant for the same reasons you stated,there was some names that popped up that are using this stuff that i know. if they are using it-there just has to be something to it.once i get settled with the birds im gonna try it,and i will definately give you my findings.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> thanks renee.ive always done similiar to what you do.i have been listening to pigeon radio alot lately and i have more than once heard these guys say they are using the stuff,and what a difference they claim it makes.most of those guys are old-school like me.while i am hesitant for the same reasons you stated,there was some names that popped up that are using this stuff that i know. if they are using it-there just has to be something to it.once i get settled with the birds im gonna try it,and i will definately give you my findings.


Yea, do that. If it's "all that"......I might give it another try. Who knows?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

k-will said:


> i have decided that im gonna try this chisolm trail health plan that goes on the feed and in the water.my question is when you put this stuff on the feed,what oils has anyone on here been using to make the stuff adhere to the feed?i saw a list of oils on the site that you can use,i was just curious if anyone on here does it,and what do they prefer to use.back in the day we used to put certain medications on the feed that werent very water soluble.for the life of me i cant remember what i was using.help!
> 
> i have heard very good reports of this health plan from some fanciers i trust,so i feel like i have to try it.


 I have had a few emails go back and forth between SFL and John at Chisolm Trail...my may concern was/is not knowing what I would be buying. John was concerned about someone stealing his formula, and I can appreciate that. But, at the present time, I am well pleased with all the various products I am using. It may be cheaper to use this one series of products, rather then all the health food stuff I use, but I sort of feel that if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.....My loft manager did use his products last year with one of our race teams, but he made a very serious beginners mistake. He mixed up a big batch of the stuff...a week's worth at a time. I suspect it was the oils which went rancid, and made the bird's sick, and not John's products. So, we really didn't have a chance to see how good the products might really be. I also think, you must use the Chisolm trail products and nothing else, less the birds get overdosed on certain vitamins. Too much of a good thing, can be very bad.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

http://www.healthypigeons.com/What is HPB.html


Sounds like this is the same stuff to me or something VERY similiar. Everybody's got that "magic" potion huh??
Some of their ingrediants must remain "unnamed" also............


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i believe this product if used right will help the pigeons maintain good health.im not searching for any magic potion,just a little help.my question was what oil or oils for the feed mixture was anybody using that was using this product?my other factor here is im not changing my health plan,im starting it.i dont have a cabinet or refrigerator full of stuff.in fact,i as of yet dont have any stuff.as you know i have just built the loft and still working on the inside,and i dont even have my breeders at the loft yet.i am forming a game plan of what im gonna use.from day 1 that my pigeons arrive here i will have them on a certain feeding program,and as i said this health plan i mentioned.(along with the necessary medications,and vaccinations that must be done to have birds in super health.

magic potions-i have seen some of them in my 30+ years in this sport.but that discussion my be suitable for another thread.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> i believe this product if used right will help the pigeons maintain good health.im not searching for any magic potion,just a little help.my question was what oil or oils for the feed mixture was anybody using that was using this product?my other factor here is im not changing my health plan,im starting it.i dont have a cabinet or refrigerator full of stuff.in fact,i as of yet dont have any stuff.as you know i have just built the loft and still working on the inside,and i dont even have my breeders at the loft yet.i am forming a game plan of what im gonna use.from day 1 that my pigeons arrive here i will have them on a certain feeding program,and as i said this health plan i mentioned.(along with the necessary medications,and vaccinations that must be done to have birds in super health.
> 
> magic potions-i have seen some of them in my 30+ years in this sport.but that discussion my be suitable for another thread.


I didn't mean my post in a deragatory manner, not directed at you anyway. I was just saying that when you see the CTL web site, it sounds like it's the ONLY product out there like that and if you look further, you'll find another product that "appears" to be just like it and I expect there's more if I knew where to look. 
What you are doing as far as making a "plan" BEFORE you get the birds is for sure the smartest thing you can do. Most people jump into this with both feet before knowing ANYTHING about what they should and shouldn't do. 
I had a little advantage in that my husband had pigeons when he was younger so with his help, I wasn't totally clueless as what I was getting into. However, we did have our pigeons for almost 2 years before we got into racing. I believe it made a difference. 
So, anyway, just wanted to clear that up.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

k-will said:


> i believe this product if used right will help the pigeons maintain good health.im not searching for any magic potion,just a little help.my question was what oil or oils for the feed mixture was anybody using that was using this product?my other factor here is im not changing my health plan,im starting it.i dont have a cabinet or refrigerator full of stuff.in fact,i as of yet dont have any stuff.as you know i have just built the loft and still working on the inside,and i dont even have my breeders at the loft yet.i am forming a game plan of what im gonna use.from day 1 that my pigeons arrive here i will have them on a certain feeding program,and as i said this health plan i mentioned.(along with the necessary medications,and vaccinations that must be done to have birds in super health.
> 
> magic potions-i have seen some of them in my 30+ years in this sport.but that discussion my be suitable for another thread.


Since you are starting from the very beginning, I would think that this gives you a good opportunity to develope a sound feeding program, and it sounds like a good idea. My current program has become so conplicated, with so many different products, that it takes a whole refrigerator and some shevles to incorporate . Don't know exactly how I got to this point, but if the CT products work, then it would be much more simpler and less expensive. Go for it, and then give us some feed back down the road.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

no worries renee.i appreciate your feedback.even after 30 years of having pigeons,i surely dont think i know it all.this time coming back i just want to do things right.warren,its always good to hear your opinion as well.im gonna try the stuff,and i will report what i find.i think its gonna save me from having a cabinet full of vitamins and minerals,etc,but nothing more.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

well,i have tried the health plan for a little bit.when birds started arriving,they had the usual green droppings,etc.some continued to have them after a few days.after being on the health plan for a short time,the droppings came around fast,and the birds started showing an increased appetite.they also have been excercising in the loft,and are obviously much happier.i wont know about the flyers for some time as i will be breeding all of them,but if this is any indication,i am now another believer in this stuff.it definately makes a difference.as time goes by,i will report again.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

I am sure it "works".....much like any good program of probotics and vitamins. Since this product is a "black box" where the producer does not want to tell the buyer what is in it....you must then rely on this particular product 100% and not use other products. Otherwise you run the risk of overdose of vitamins and such.

The producer of this stuff is nice enough, I just don't like "secret" magic products....unless I mix up my own magic potion and sell it under my own name !!


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

*why not use only this product?*

well,as you said earlier in this thread warren,i would have to use only this product,which is exactly what i intend to do.i think it replaces vitamins,probiotics,trace minerals,etc.-i can see where the etc. part could bother you.however,as i said from the start,i didnt buy this stuff on a whim.i have been told by numerous flyers that the stuff works,and i can also report that every day that goes by,it just gets better and better.i wish i would have taken pics of the droppings from day 1 until today.there isnt a bad dropping to be found anymore,and the birds are gleaming.when i scrape the loft,its like scraping pebbles.dry....no stains on the floor,nuthin.as for the making the stuff ahead of time.i have only went 3 days ahead on it,so i cant comment on that.i only know the results so far.and thats what counts.i had a flyer come by the other day and look at some birds,and he immediately commented on how nice the birds looked(they just shine)-how my white floors looked so clean,and that i must spend hours cleaning.then he saw the droppings.....he ordered some on monday.bottom line is results.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Oh Shoot.....*

K-Will,

I just got off the phone with John, and he is sending me his deluxe package of goodies. With such raving reviews from so many people, I just have to try it on one of my teams this year, just to see how my current program stacks up. The previous "test" by the loft manager was mishandled, so if this CTL program is just as good as what I am currently doing, then it will be much less expensive and a whole lot more simple. So K-Will, you helped sell me on the idea of giving it a good test !


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

*thats great warren*

thats great warren.i wouldnt steer you wrong.and this way you test it the best way it can be tested.the products you currently use vs chisolm trail health.i hope you can empty your cabinet after this year. 

i bet i was using alot of the same things before as you and with so many of my friends using and bragging about the stuff,i just had to see for myself.of course keep me posted as the year goes on please.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

k-will said:


> thats great warren.i wouldnt steer you wrong.and this way you test it the best way it can be tested.the products you currently use vs chisolm trail health.i hope you can empty your cabinet after this year.
> 
> i bet i was using alot of the same things before as you and with so many of my friends using and bragging about the stuff,i just had to see for myself.of course keep me posted as the year goes on please.


 Thank you K-Will,

I tend to want to tinker with, and fix things, even if not broken. But, the reality is I some how allowed the cabinet to grow to monster proportions...and truth be told, I am not sure I can exactly duplicate what I have already done in the past, simply because of the sheer number of items I have used.

Have you ever walked into one of those health food/vitamin stores and talked with one of their "experts"...it's not hard to drop $1,000 and not even scratch the surface. In fact, if you took even half of what they would suggest, you would never eat or drink anything but pills and formulas.

Somehow over time, in some fashion, in my quest to give my pigeons the very best that money can buy....I ended up not with a cabinet, but a whole room, plus a large refrig full of various things. Towards the end of the 2007 racing season, I suspected one of my teams was getting too much of a good thing, and suspended everything but fresh clean water and cheaper feed, and guess what...they did better...so go figure. So much for magic pills and the like....now perhaps if I can just stop tinkering...and use just the CTL stuff on this one team...I may just end up a convert !!  Then maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks !!


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

warren,my birds are doing real well on it.i have introduced some more new birds into the loft,and within a few days,the droppings were better.i hope it works for you as well.keep me posted sir.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

k-will said:


> warren,my birds are doing real well on it.i have introduced some more new birds into the loft,and within a few days,the droppings were better.i hope it works for you as well.keep me posted sir.


sounds very encouraging to hear the birds seem to be doing so well k-will,. I went to the site where you buy it and read the reviews and they sound very good, But with all products they all give great reviews to sell it, the only way you know is totry yourself as you are doing and from this thread it seems to be coming along rightly, I have been using a programme of herbs and tonics to keep the birds healty and try to stay away from all these other wonder products. But saying that i have ordered a trail of the product to try my young birds i am breeding now to see the difference it makes if any. so for now k-will yu have sold the product again, Are you on comission the way your going you should be, lol, let us know how the birds are coming along


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

thats great jojo.glad to hear it.no,im not on commission,but i always share stuff like this with my pigeon talk friends.i dont have to fly against ya.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

i love to keep harping on this stuff,because it is unreal.i just brought in 3 more birds 4 days ago that were droopy looking with solid green droppings.3 days later on this stuff........beautiful droppings,and the birds are chasing each other and having a grand old time.i dont believe in "wonder" products,but this stuff comes as close as ive ever seen in 30 years.

and no,im not getting a kick back,i just know i can tell you because i dont have to compete against you.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*John Curry of Chisholm Trail Loft himself !!*

Hey K-Will,

Maybe I can break in on your promotion contract !  The following is an email I recently recieved in my mail box. From the inventor of the product himself. I gave him quite a hard time about releasing his secret formula, which he is smart enough to not be willing to do. I did find him willing to talk to me about his product, and I found him to be a likeable sort of guy. He was not defensive, which I found quite refreshing.

Hello Warren,
Thanks for putting me on to the Pigeon - Talk forum. Tell each member
that we at Chisholm Trail Loft appreciate all comments, positive and
negative.
We have been offering the Chisholm Trail Loft Program to the public
since 1996. We were the first. Now several have jumped on the wagon
in an attempt to cash in on our success. Several are in our database
as having purchased our product one day and 30 days later they think
they have our formula and are offering a watered down substitute. 
Even a watered down substitute will work pretty well. As the
copy-cats wrestle each ingredient out of us, they then add it to
their formula in an unscientific manner. (I know that you understand
our protective stance in guarding our formula).
We have distributors in Canada, S.Africa, Australia. We ship to
England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Alaska, Hawaii, Costa
Rica, etc. Many of these clients pay at least $50.00 more for the
package plus customs and taxes than the US fanciers. They keep coming
back for more. Our product isn't a miracle, but it makes a good
plateau to launch the overall health strategy for a superior loft.
We want to thank all those who have ordered our program after
listening to Pigeon Radio and postings on Pigeon-Talk.
Thanks again Warren for you help.
John Curry
Chisholm Trail Loft


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

warren,yes john is a very likeable guy as i also have conversed with him lately.i wish i was getting a kickback,but im not.ill say it again,ill tell anyone that wants to listen as long as i dont fly against them. 

best thing ive found in 30 years of pigeons.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

*plastic feeder for chisolm trail health feed*

my newest kick for using this feed is i have eliminated my wooden feeders.i think it is possible small amounts of oil will build up on the wood and eventually go bad.what i did is i got some plastic planter boxes.they are about 3 inches wide by 12 inches long or so.i put velcro on the bottom of them and the other piece on the loft floor.this keeps them from tipping the feeder over.i bought enough that i switch the feeders out every day.it is working real well so far,and the feeders are washed every day.i am playing with the idea of putting the grit in with the feed as well,then eliminating the grit container as well.the feeders stay clean and i know there wont be anything spoiling the birds can get to.i dont know if this would work for a bigger loft with many breeders or flyers though,as some of you probably have 20 or more pairs(would the feeders be big enough).anyway,thought i would share this.it works like a charm.

oh the reason i put the grit in was my daughter feeds the birds when i am working and forgets to change the grit everyday which i think is a must.-tricknology.


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

*Opening this thread again*

Just saw the digest with Chisolm Trail on the cover, is anyone on this program at this time or has anyone had success with this program ?


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

bhymer said:


> Just saw the digest with Chisolm Trail on the cover, is anyone on this program at this time or has anyone had success with this program ?


If you look at the photo on the cover, you see the white powder in front. I am using that product almost daily. But I get it from the original creator who is only a few miles down the road from me. I use it b/c it has an acidifier and pro-bios (among other things) so I don't need to use ACV. It's all in one product.


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

Could you tell me where I can purchase that product as well ?? Thanks


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Alltech. But you have to fill out credit applications, etc. so it's kind of a pain at first. They don't sell retail. BUT, you can get it here, too:

http://livestockconcepts.com/en/orals/219-acid-pak-4-way-2x.html

It's only $8. I think Chisolm is selling it 2 for $24 if I'm reading his site correctly. I cannot say whether or not Chisolm is adding anything to their mix. Possible. I doubt it.

If you don't use this product a lot, I have noticed that it starts to clump after a few months. I take a pack and use only half at a time and tightly seal it so air won't get to it. But it's so cheap, that even if it starts clumping at the end I don't care. 

FWIW, there are other pigeon supplement makers out there that are using this product and repackaging and relabeling and marking it up  Secret is out.


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

Great info thanks for your help...


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm on city water, would it matter that they chlorinate the water ?


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I'm told no, it wouldn't matter. However, in an abundance of caution, here's what I do:

Water the birds, walk back to the house with empty bucket, fill it at the spigot. The next morning I take that bucket of water to the loft to water the birds. Having set for 24 hours, much of the chlorine has evaporated. It takes no more work, it's just a matter or workflow.


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks, I agree with that. Hated to waste the time and money if it didn t work because of the chlorine...


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