# Found a very sick and starving pigeon



## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

So, I found this pigeon four days ago under a car in the parking lot of our apartment. He(or she) wasn't able to fly but he gave me a real tough time chasing him. Though after I finally brought him home, he has been extremely inactive and immobile. He doesn't try running away from me or even move around in the room where I have kept him. I find him exactly at the same spot whenever I open the room to feed him or to give him medicine. His head looked a little tilted in the first two days but now its mostly bent forward all the time. Another significant thing is that he never..just never sits down. Is always in standing position. Even if I sometimes try pressing him down a little to comfort him, he immediately gets back to standing position the moment I leave him. He also starts walking in circular motion sometimes, at the same spot though. He has a bad diarrhea and the color of his poop is dark green and white with a lot of water. He's not been eating anything on his own since the day I got him. He's started drinking some water when I offer it though but the way he drinks it is really weird. He puts his entire head in the water including his nose n eyes and drinks frantically for a couple seconds and then takes out his head. 

From what all, I have been reading here for the last four days, I think it could be PMV. But then there's no way for me to find it for sure. I live in India and there are no avien vets in our area and the ones that I am in touch with on phone (located about 250 Kms away) don't seem competent enough. He told me to give him 4 drops each of powergyl syrup (metronidazole and norfloxacin suspention) and ibugecic plus syrup(ibuprofen and paracetamol combination) twice daily, which I have been giving. Also two drops of Vimral (multivitamin) once a day. Apart from this I have been hand feeding pearl millets to him five times a day(about 25-30 grains at one time). Have also been giving him electrolyte water twice a day. Have placed his mat on a heating pad from day one and his room is adequately heated. I also keep him in sun for a couple of hours daily. But despite all this, his condition seems to be majorly deteriorating by the day. Yesterday, after reading on a thread here, I handfed him 20 grains of frozen corn (thawed for 15-20 minutes in hot water). Tried feeding him the same this morning too but he was way too uncomfortable and wouldn't just open his beak so I could only feed it 10 grains. His eyes are almost always closed. And he's very very underweight (by holding it..no scale available). Can also feel his chest blade very prominently.. 

Though I tried nursing a pigeon in almost similar condition around six months ago(he died in about a week), I am still very inexperienced and know, whatever little I do, from reading threads on this forum. 

I am getting very anxious with his deteriorating condition and don't know if I am doing the right things for him(especially the medication and feed). His diarrhea has not improved at all in all these days. I am at a loss..any help would be hugely appreciated. Can anyone suggest me, if I should use ACV and/or garlic for his better digestion? I have been reading a lot about this but don't know if it's a good idea to use in my situation. 

Thanks in advance. 

P. S. By the way, I have a brown dove at home(again rescued..found her as a baby fallen from her nest in heavy rain). I am worried she might catch the infection. Do doves get infected by PMV? Or other pigeon diseases? She flew into the room where I have kept the pigeon once, accidentally. Otherwise, I make sure I use a different set of slippers, gloves and even an apron while entering that room.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

You haven't mentioned anything that makes me think it's PMV. Mild neurological symptoms could be caused by anything. The symptoms you've described could just be from starvation.
What's the concentration of the meds you're giving? We can at least calculate if it's the right dose, even if you're just shooting in the dark. Most of the meds you've mentioned can have adverse effects, especially if the bird is in bad shape to begin with. I'd probably stop the pain meds altogether. I wouldn't be giving the other things without a reason either, but antibiotics might possibly help.
Heat, electrolytes and force feeding are probably the best you can do without diagnostics. How fast is his crop emptying? Frozen corn, peas, or bird formula are easier to digest than dry seeds, but if his crop is empty before the next feeding it should be fine.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If he has PMV, no meds will help at this point. Only supportive care. Keep on giving him multivitamins, and exposing him to sunlight (in a cage for his own protection) and add apple cider vinegar (5 ml to 1 l of water) to his drinking water.

Try to feed him defrosted peas rather, at least 50 twice daily. Leave a deep seed dish with him, he might figure out a way to start eating. I've read that the kidneys gets damaged by PMV, that's why they drink a lot of water and so will have watery droppings.

It will take 6 weeks for the virus to run it's course, keep your dove away from him during this time. The pigeon I had with PMV was at her worse during week 6, but now she is perfectly back to normal. 

Overdosing on Metronidazole can also cause neurological symptoms. So for now, just continue to forcefeed him so that he can get some strength back.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If no vet, and am not sure what the bird has, I would treat with 50 mg of Metro once daily, along with a good antibiotic. Have never had a problem with Metro, but the vets where you are often under dose with it, and therefore it doesn't help. I have never had a problem with Metro and have used it often. By giving both you are covering more bases. I don't see the reason for pain meds. By giving him too many meds with him not eating much, it will just make him sick. If you don't get food into him, he is going to get worse. As Marina has already said, peas are easier to digest then corn. And would give 30 peas maybe 3 times daily. Make sure the crop is emptying and food is going through before feeding him again. 
If put out in the sun, give him a shady part of the cage so he can get out of the sun if he needs to. I would keep him inside.


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## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

bootface said:


> You haven't mentioned anything that makes me think it's PMV. Mild neurological symptoms could be caused by anything. The symptoms you've described could just be from starvation.
> What's the concentration of the meds you're giving? We can at least calculate if it's the right dose, even if you're just shooting in the dark. Most of the meds you've mentioned can have adverse effects, especially if the bird is in bad shape to begin with. I'd probably stop the pain meds altogether. I wouldn't be giving the other things without a reason either, but antibiotics might possibly help.
> Heat, electrolytes and force feeding are probably the best you can do without diagnostics. How fast is his crop emptying? Frozen corn, peas, or bird formula are easier to digest than dry seeds, but if his crop is empty before the next feeding it should be fine.


Thank you so much for replying. This is the bottle with concentration and correct composition of the salts. Since the bottle was in the room where the pigeon is, and I did not want to disturb him to check for the composition, I had checked it on google and mentioned in my question. But on seeing the bottle later, I realised, it has a different combination. I have been giving 4 drops of it twice a day but its not helping with his diarrhea at all. The dark green color is the bile I have read, but why so much bile if I am feeding him for almost 5 days now..even if he was starving earlier. And I don't know how to figure out if the crop is emptying..can you help me with that please? As for PMV, I don't know if it's that but I can relate to most symptoms that I have been reading online. His head is shaky..he can't seem to pick seed even if he tries to(thats very rare though) and the circling


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## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks a ton Marina B and Jay3..have added 5ml ACV to 1ml water plus stopped giving him the pain med. Would it be ok to give him fresh peas instead of frozen?


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## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

This morning (an hour ago) when I went to see the pigeon, I saw 5 undigested kernels of corn around him, which means he threw up during the night. Had hand fed him 20 kernels last night. He also did not want to drink any water this morning..which he normally readily does. As for the crop, I have been watchibg videos and reading stuff online but still can't say for sure. I do see and feel a prominent bulge below his neck all the time but thats kind of sharp, not like what I saw in the videos. Will try clicking a picture and post it here.


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## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

I think my pigeon is sinking. And I can't help but feel guilty about feeding him corn kernels somehow ?
He isn't opening his beak at all for me to give him some water even with a dropper since morning. And is not standing anymore. Hes lying on his side and breathing heavily. I am so so worried.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi Ritu,

Firstly, Please don't feel bad about feeding the pigeon corn rather than peas. I agree with others, peas might have been easier for it to digest, but reading your post and its initial symptoms, it seems that it was 'too far gone' by the time you rescued it. 

_"he has been extremely inactive and immobile. He doesn't try running away from me or even move around in the room where I have kept him. I find him exactly at the same spot whenever I open the room to feed him or to give him medicine."
_
I'm going to go out on a tangent and say; it sounds like PMV. I know there is no way to find out, but reading your description : _"His head looked a little tilted in the first two days but now its mostly bent forward all the time. Another significant thing is that he never..just never sits down."_

From the facts, it seems the time might be near. Please take comfort with the effort you put in, you tried your best. Maybe it was destined for this pigeon to have its last days nestled in your tender loving care.

From my personal experiance, PMV pigeons _have_ recovered successfully, but its not easy and frequent. 

Whatever the scenario , I wish you the best of Luck.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

I agree with YaSin, that he probably won't make it, but hopefully you can learn some stuff now that could help a bird in the future.

Feel his crop as soon as you've fed him. You should be able to feel the seeds/peas/formula you've just put in. If you can't, you aren't feeling in the right place or you're not feeding enough. After a few hours it should be smaller and softer. 

If it feels hard, he probably has an impacted crop, which would explain why his poop hasn't improved. It's very common in emaciated birds if they aren't fed something that's easy to digest. He really needs a vet or someone who has bird experience, but you can try to get as much water in him as possible and massage the crop. If his crop manages to empty, you'll need to start feeding him something easier to digest, like a bird formula. You could also grind some seeds up and soak them in water. 

I can't figure out the appropriate dosage for those antibiotics. They should be safe and effective for birds, but they aren't listed in any of my books and I can't find enough info online.

Unimportant tangent: I feel like PMV is over "diagnosed." 90% of the time it seems like a guess, and that's dangerous if it means you're going to ignore all of the other things that can cause neurological symptoms. There are diseases that cause the exact same symptoms that you can test for and treat. Assuming it's a virus and you just have to offer supportive care is irresponsible. I've even heard people claim they can "cure" PMV with antibiotics, without even considering that the symptoms were caused by a bacterial infection! You know, something that would actually respond to antibiotics.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I see you posted 5 ml ACV to 1 ml of water, should be 5 ml to 1 Litre of drinking water. Maybe it was just a typing error you made, but just for in case.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The bulge you are feeling below his neck is probably his trachea, it gets more prominent if they are losing weight and the crop is empty. Hope he survives.


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## Ritu (Feb 10, 2018)

Thank you so much for all the help and advice wonderful people. Will keep it all in mind the next time. My pigeon just passed away. It was such a roller coaster of hope and despair but it had to end this way ?

"I see you posted 5 ml ACV to 1 ml of water, should be 5 ml to 1 Litre of drinking water. Maybe it was just a typing error you made, but just for in case."

Yes, that was indeed a typing error. Thanks for correcting though.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry you lost him. Thanks for trying. Unfortunately we cannot save them all. And the more we know, the better we can do.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am very sorry he didnt make it. Thank you for caring about him and helping him.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

My Condolences  Sorry to read this.


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