# Found a Sick Pigeon - Please Help!



## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

I was referred to this site from a companion bird forum. They said some of the members on here might be able to help me help a sick pigeon I found. 

Sorry for not introducing myself first, but I thought I'd get straight to the point as I'm worried about the big guy I found.

Yesterday after work I hopped in my car and waited for the car parked next to me to reverse and drive off.

That's when I noticed a domestic pigeon sitting where the car was parked. It was fluffed up and didn't move even when the car drove right over the top of him. His beak had crusty stuff on it which I at first thought might be blood.

So I toweled the guy (he didn't even try to move away). I took him back to my car and gave him a once over to see if he had a broken wing or leg. He didn't, but I noticed the crusty stuff on his beak was *chocolate*! And lots of it!

So I took him home and he is currently in my garage in a spare cage. I don't want to bring him inside because I don't want to put my pet birds at risk should he have some sort of illness.

I can feel his keel bone, but I'm not sure if this is normal for wild pigeons?

I gave him some water, budgie seed, blueberries, multigrain bread, sprouted seed, defrosted corn kernels and millet sprays. He has eaten a tiny amount and had a few sips of water.

He is unbalanced and a little weak. Could this be chocolate poisoning?

He had bloody, slimy and runny droppings all of last night:










A couple of hours ago he started passing normal droppins although there is a lot of urine. It is now a dark green colour, not slimy and solid. No blood.

My first course of action would have been to take him to a wildlife vet, however I live in Australia, and bringing in a wild pigeon would result in him being euthanized immediately. Non-native species are to be put to sleep and it is illegal to rehabilitate them back into the wild.

Here's the big guy:



















So...

I have spot-on Ivermectin on hand. Should I treat him for worms and mites then?

I also have probiotics which I've been putting in his water.

I have Organic Apple Cider Vinegar as well. Should I put this in his water instead of the probiotics? With it?

He is not eating much at all (less then my budgies would eat). Should I force feed him?

I also have an array of antibiotics on hand. Baycox, Doxyvet, Flagyl and Meloxicam. I know using antibiotics like these without an avian vet diagnosing an illness could be risky (organ failure?). So should I just not risk it and go out and buy a broad spectrum antibiotic from Vetafarm? Is this even necessary?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Poor little thing, thank you so much for taking him to safety.


Can you put him on something warm? A hot water bottle wrapped in a towel would be great, but otherwise you could fill a sock with rice and warm that up in the microwave. Make certain that it is not too hot.

Then mix 1 pint warm water with 1/2 tablspoon of glucose or honey or sugar and 1/2 teaspoon of salt. Give it to him while it is warm and dip his beak in it to encourage him to drink. It is best to wait a bit before feeding him but it won't hurt to give him an activated charcoal tablet, broken up into quarters.

Have you washed the chocolate off his beak? Can you look inside his mouth to see if it is clean?

Can you also let us know where you are? There is always a chance that one of us is near enough to help.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi, welcome and thank you for helping this pigeon.
Treat him for parazites with Ivermectin and for canker and coccidiosis.
Spartrix, Flagyl, Fishzole are common drugs for canker and Appertex, Chevicox, Coximed are drugs for coccidiosis.
Blood in the poop is probably either from worms or coccidiosis.

Yes, handfeeding is good idea as he needs nutritions to get over disease.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Is that a string or thread wrapped around the toe in the first picture? The toe looks swollen.
If it is, it needs to come off.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> Is that a string or thread wrapped around the toe in the first picture? The toe looks swollen.
> If it is, it needs to come off.


I noticed the same thing and it needs to come off asap.
If he won't eat on his own you will need to hand feed him after he is warmed and hydrated. I'll get you the instruction.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are some hand feeding instructions...


You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines them without hurting them and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat. 
You will need to feed 40-50 pieces per feeding and every time the crop empties.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm just coming on and the first thing I noticed was the string as well.
I appears (from my angle) that it is wound around his right toe.

Charis is exactly right it must be removed immediately.

Please do make sure the bird has been warmed (at least 25-30 minutes) with some type of supplemental heat, such as has been suggested or a towel lined heating pad *before* any food or fluids have been given to him. 

Cindy


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

glad you made it over here chompie.
i hope the bloody poops are from the chocolate and nothing else
and good eyes everybody!! get that hair off his little toe


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Looks more like human hair to me, but yes needs to be removed.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

plamenh said:


> *Looks more like human hair to me*, but yes needs to be removed.


Yes, it probably is. I think we just get used to using the phrase 'string'. 
At any rate, it needs to be removed immediately, if it hasn't already been.

Chompie-puppy, how are things going with the pij?

Cindy


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you all for the replies!

Yes, that was a human hair wrapped around his foot. He's actually missing a toe on the foot, but it seems to have healed. I can get a photo for you guys if needed? I've since removed quite a bit of hair from that foot. It was all tangled up in it, though I'm not sure if this could be the cause of him loosing the toe?

He has stopped passing blood in his droppings completely now.  The last trace of blood was about 20 hours ago.

I've helped a wildlife keeper force feed an orphaned Glossy Ibis before (I help out at a wildlife sanctuary) so I know the technique you described Charis! Thanks for confirming that this will be alright for the pigeon too!

I got him to eat 10 defrosted pea and corn kernels this morning. I'll go feed him some more now since that was not enough.

I completely removed the chocolate from his beak. He is also in a warm place. I live on the Gold Coast, in Queensland, in Australia. It is 32 degrees Celsius (90 degrees Fahrenheit) at the moment in the garage. I was actually worried it is too hot for him. Is this alright though? Should I still add a warm water bottle?

So as far as the medicine goes...

How much Ivermectin do I apply? I use "Ivomec Pour-on for Cattle" for all my pet birds: http://www.petalia.com.au/Templates/ProdSubList.cfm?Group_No=6502.

For them I use one undiluted drop of Ivomec at the back of the neck. Should I use the same amount for him?

So I should treat him for canker and coccidia? What dose do I give him?

Thank you so much for all the help! He is actually looking a little more active today.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...1 drop of Ivormec is correct amount.

Do you have any metronidazole [ flagyl]for canker?

Apertex for coccidia?

Can you give us a weight for the bird in grams?

If the birds isn't eating on his own, you will need to feed him 40-50 pieces of corn and peas per feeding .
Sounds like he is in good hands.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

32 Celsius is Ok temperature, just make sure he has enough water and you can add electrolites/vitamins in it.
Handfeeding should be twice a day 40~50 pieces pea/corn per feeding. Even if he eats alone, you should make sure that these first days he gets enough food.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

I just went out and bought Coccivet by Vetafarm to treat him for Coccidia. I've added the required amount of drops to his water.

I inspected his foot again and removed some more hair! I think I got it all now. His middle toe looks dead on that foot as it is cold and very stiff. Will he lose this one too?


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Hello,

Glad to see you here! I recommended that she come here to get advice from the wonderful people of Pigeon-Talk when I saw her thread on another bird forum.  Glad to hear everyone has been able to give some great advice.

If you could post pictures of his feet, that would be great. Inspecting them for infection is crucial. It seems a tad weird that he had chocolate on his beak, I was just thinking - are you sure it was chocolate? Did you smell it or something?  Odd that he has so much hair wrapped around his feet... Yeesh, I wonder if he belonged to someone who was abusing him? It just seems so odd.

Anyway, I am so glad that he is in good hands.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

What do you guys think of this poop?



















At least there has been no sign of blood for the last 24 hours. However, this is the only type of poop he does now. It's very small, isn't it? Notice all the urine?

Vasp - I'm almost 100% sure it was chocolate on his beak. Not the normal chocolate bar type thing, but more like a chocolate mudcake or brownie mixture that was caked on his beak. It smelled very sweet and chocolatey (yes, I did smell it ).

I only have one photo of his foot, and it's not very good. I'll take some more tomorrow when I take him out of the cage for feeding.

He had a walk around the garage today. He didn't want to fly at all (How common is it for these guys to fly? I only ever see them walking around) but he did have a bit of a stroll. He was a little unbalanced when I first put him down (possibly because he's missing a toe?), but he seems to be able to walk perfectly fine once he gets into it.

He's a cutie though!


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Oops, forgot to add the photo of his foot:


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Foot looks ok, just a bit antibiotic oinment if you can smear on top of it.
Poop is no good. He will need plenty fluids and vitamins/minerals to keep it up with this watery fluids. Let him eat and relax and please post his poops pictures daily. Check if there is any smell from them. Don't worry you are not the only one smelling their beaks and poops, I do that on regular bases with sick birds. I taste their medicines food and vitamins too.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i do to, we are a sick bunch, lol


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm not sure how pigeon poop should smell? It definitely has an odour! Should it be odourless like my parrots' poop?

Do any of you have a photo of what a normal pigeon poop should look like? That would help a lot!


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

it shouldn't stink, it should smell a lot like your parrots, someone will post some pics soon, i don't have any


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Too bad that no one has posted to help you today. 
Pigeon poop should be more solid than parrot poop. It generally is in round little balls, but of course moist, with a dollop of white urate on top. It should be a coiled little ball, and a dark green/brown color. It also should not smell. So I agree, that poop is no good.

If you want to talk to me, send me an email at [email protected] I just feel that you should have someone on hand at all times that will respond quickly, just in case, and I'd be glad to help.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

This is picture of healthy poop. It should have no smell.
Again my suggestion is treat him for canker, cocci and worms.
Vitamins and probiotics will be my choice of supportive care and handfeeding.
The type of poop on your picture suggests kidney problems. This may be related to PMV but before you eliminate protozoas and worms as an options it is hard to tell.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Wonka (yes, I've named him ) is doing very much the same.

But now I'm scared for him! His poop looks nothing at all like it should. This is what it looks like every morning in his cage:










I've realised the poop doesn't smell as much as I thought. It was actually Wonka that was smelling like that. Should pigeons have a more "musky" smell to them than parrots?

I gave him a bath today as I noticed he had poop stuck to the feathers around his vent. I just gently soaked his vent in lukewarm water (with a dash of ACV). I've gotten most of the poop off.

I've also weighed him and he is 311g. What is the average weight of a pigeon like Wonka?

I'm currently treating him for Coccidia with Coccivet. It's just some drops that I put in his water. Today is the third day he has been on this medicine.

I've also given him a dose of Ivermectin today. So that means he is now wormed and treated for mites.

I let him out every morning and afternoon so that he can have a bit of a walk around the garage. I've scattered some seed for him, but he will only peck at it once or twice and then go and sit in a corner.










I don't think he's eating enough at all! I'm still handfeeding him. Is 40 pea and corn kernels (twice a day) enough to sustain him?

Vasp - Thank you so much for your email! That will help a lot should I have an emergency!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Vasp said:


> Too bad that no one has posted to help you today.
> Pigeon poop should be more solid than parrot poop. It generally is in round little balls, but of course moist, with a dollop of white urate on top. It should be a coiled little ball, and a dark green/brown color. It also should not smell. So I agree, that poop is no good.
> 
> If you want to talk to me, send me an email at [email protected] I just feel that you should have someone on hand at all times that will respond quickly, just in case, and I'd be glad to help.


I think this has been an unusual week - it's been very quiet here, responses are usually much quicker and in volume. Hope everybody isn't sick and it picks up soon


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Can you get Spartrix?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Chompie_puppy,

Thanks for helping this little guy out.

While not ideal looking at all, I have seen much worse looking droppings. Remember, if he ingested a good amount chocolate, he essential has poisoned himself, part of the reason I think there was initially blood in his droppings. So this has most likely thrown things off for him, digestive wise, and I hope should correct in time. Plus, you are treating with meds which may also be effecting the consistency of his droppings.

As for weight, 311 grams for a feral I don't believe is too bad, probably needs a bit more weight around 340 grams which I am sure he will add with your care.

Earlier you mentioned that you have some ACV, I may have missed it, but I don't see where you have added it to his water, just where you used it to clean him up a bit.

I would try adding the ACV to his drinking water, start with 1 tablespoon per gallon to make sure he will drink it and then quickly more him up to 2 tablespoons a gallon, a more therapeutic dosing. This I will help him in many ways and may help with his droppings as well.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

You don't want to be using pro-biotics WITH antibiotics. And also no grit with charcoal while on antibiotics.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Good reading on ACV.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/acv-anti-or-pro-bacteria-11492.html

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Good reading on ACV.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/acv-anti-or-pro-bacteria-11492.html
> 
> Karyn


That's all good, but that link didn't address what I'm saying. I'm all for pro- biotics and ACV, as a preventative, don't get me wrong.
I can't find the link, because I printed the research and put in my binder, but in summary it states "*when attempting to prevent* paratyphoid infections in the first place, *or after* *infected birds have been treated* with the correct antibiotic, at this time, you can add lactose and acv, or other organic acids" BUT also "*DO NOT* use lactose when birds are affected with adenovirus+ E. coli infections, or to help prevent E.coli problems


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sorry, I do not like to cause confusion in any way however, this bird is not currently on any antibiotics that I can see, again, unless I missed something. From what I read he is on Coccivet, which contains amprolium, which is not an antibiotic, but interferes with thiamine metabolism which causes the cocci to die. Ivermectin is an anti-parasite medication which again interferes with the metabolism of parasites, causing them to die.

I am just a little lost on where his sickness was being thought of as bacterial. The first mention of paratyphoid in this thread, and I am not saying this could not be a problem, I can see was in your last post. I was under the impression that his case was being treated as a poisoning with a possible parasitic or cocci infection and not a bacterial infection. If this is the indeed the case then giving pro-biotics and/or ACV right now should not be an issue.

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Sorry, I do not like to cause confusion in any way however, this bird is not currently on any antibiotics that I can see, again, unless I missed something. From what I read he is on Coccivet, which contains amprolium, which is not an antibiotic, but interferes with thiamine metabolism which causes the cocci to die. Ivermectin is an anti-parasite medication which again interferes with the metabolism of parasites, causing them to die.
> 
> I am just a little lost on where his sickness was being thought of as bacterial. The first mention of paratyphoid in this thread, and I am not saying this could not be a problem, I can see was in your last post. I was under the impression that his case was being treated as a poisoning with a possible parasitic or cocci infection and not a bacterial infection. If this is the indeed the case then giving pro-biotics and/or ACV right now should not be an issue.
> 
> Karyn


Throughout the whole thread is talk of antibiotics and possibly treating for canker. That is the only reason I mentioned not to mix antibiotics with pro biotics.
The quote that I posted just happen to be about paratyphoid and E. coli. But it was cautioned about in the whole research report when treating for different issues. Not to mix the two, start one up when done with the other.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

What is Spartrix? Can I buy it somewhere, or is it vet prescribed only?

Good news! I found a tub of slippery elm! I bought the powder form instead of the capsules. How do I give it to Wonka? Sprinkled over the pea and corn kernels I hand feed him?

Dobato - I've been putting the ACV in the water I use to defrost the pea and corn kernels. I then drain the water and hand feed him. I'm hoping that's enough ACV for him? I wasn't sure if I can put it in his drinking water because I'm already putting the Coccivet in the water. Should I start putting it in his drinking water too?

I am not currently giving him probiotics.

Tonight he weighed 318g.  I also found some very thin white stringy stuff in his poop. Since I gave him the Ivermectin yesterday I would assume these are dead worms? There weren't a lot and I couldn't get it to show up on photos.

I also don't know how much food a pigeon should eat a day. When I come back from work in the afternoons I see that he has scattered some of his food around the bowl. I also sometimes find some of the food in his water. This must be an indication that he is eating at least some of it, right?

Since he is producing some poop (albeit watery and mushy) it must mean his crop is emptying as well, right? I haven't quite gotten the hang of feeling his crop yet to see if there is food in there.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Sorry, sometimes I get carried away, ask too many questions and forget to say some stuff. 

So I just want to add a great big THANK YOU to all the members who have given me fantastic advice. You have all been so kind and have given me a wealth of information to help Wonka. Thank you.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

It's good news to hear that seeds are being tossed around, even onto the water. Every bird is different and sometimes it may take a few days for a bird to feel at ease enough to start to eat and drink more normally.

Sometimes when a bird is quite sick you have no choice but to a take a "shotgun" approach to the situation, but from the pictures that I see, outside of the ill looking droppings, this bird does not appear to be in immediate need of this approach.

What I mean by this is you are treating with Coccivet, Ivermectin right now, so before starting to treat for canker I think it would be a good idea to step back a bit before adding too many things to the mix.

Earlier in the thread you said the bleeding had already stopped before even treating with the Coccivet and Ivermectin. Now I am not saying he does not perhaps have coccidiosis or worms, but sometimes you have to look at what the bird is showing you.

The bird is not emaciated and looks bright eyed right now. Earlier Feefo asked if his mouth was clean. What I think she meant by this is if you gently pry open his mouth and look inside, what does it look like, is it pink and clean looking or are there any yellowish/whitish/cheesy looking growths bumps there that you can see? If there are, this would most likely indicate a canker infection that would need to be addressed. If not, then I would not add another drug in the mix right now. Canker can be located further down in his system where you cannot see it, but if it is not obviously in his mouth/throat area, I would hold off right now on adding more meds.

I may be wrong, but my feeling is that this may just be a straight forward case of chocolate poisoning, if there is such a thing in a bird, and he just needs some time and care to recover from.

It would be great if you could post a photo of the "stringy stuff" in his droppings to have a look at. Ferals do get round worm infections and coccidiosis and he may benefit from your treatment for these. I don't know much about slippery elm, other than use for sore throats, and I have not heard of its use in pigeons, so I would hold off right now myself on it. 

I don't think he will be getting much ACV from the soaking of the peas and corn kernels in it. Most pigeons do readily accept its addition to their water, but there are some that don't, that's why I suggested you start at a lower dose to make sure he will drink the water if it is added, especially if you are relying on him being medicated properly by indeed drinking his water. 

I still sometimes can't really judge well how much a bird has eaten by feeling their crop. The best measurement for me has always been how much is coming out the back end and going from there.

Right now, again if it was me, I would go with ACV (if possible), add in some probiotics, finish his course of Coccivet (adding the ACV after if he won't readily accept it in his water right now), finish treating for worms (he will need another treatment of the Ivermectin in 10-14 days) and reassess based on how he is presenting over the next few days before adding things to or rethinking his treatment.

It's aways good when they start to weigh a little more than less, these are the things you are looking for when deciding if you need to be more aggressive in treatment or if what you are already doing is having an effect, please keep up the good work.

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dobato said:


> It's good news to hear that seeds are being tossed around, even onto the water. Every bird is different and sometimes it may take a few days for a bird to feel at ease enough to start to eat and drink more normally.
> 
> Sometimes when a bird is quite sick you have no choice but to a take a "shotgun" approach to the situation, but from the pictures that I see, outside of the ill looking droppings, this bird does not appear to be in immediate need of this approach.
> 
> ...


Adding too many things to the mix is what I was worried about - thank you, and Excellent advise


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i agree great advice dobato


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

> Tonight he weighed 318g. I also found some very thin white stringy stuff in his poop. Since I gave him the Ivermectin yesterday I would *assume these are dead worms*? There weren't a lot and I couldn't get it to show up on photos.


You need to repeat procedure with Ivermectin in 10~14 days to clear them all.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks for the advice!

So I shouldn't give him the slippery elm?

This morning he weighed 290g. Is such a big drop in weight normal for a pigeon? I know if my parrots dropped that much weight overnight I would be rushing to the avian vet!

However, I did weigh him first thing in the morning and before he ate. I'll weigh him again tonight.

His mouth is a light pink colour. It is smooth and I can't see any lumps or bumps. No smell either.

His droppings have not improved, though I have found some very small fragments of broken up seeds in his poop. Is this normal? The only reason I've noticed it is because he has some red coloured seeds in his mix and you can see very tiny bits of them through his poop.


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Tonight he weighed 297g after being fed. He is also more alert when he's outside the cage. He will now actually make a point of trying to move away from me when I come near him. I take this as a good sign since he is, afterall, a wild pigeon.

He is also sleeping with one leg tucked in tonight. This is the first time I've seen him do this.  I know this is a good sign with parrots, so I'll assume it's a good sign with pigeons too.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, Msfreebird I agree with you, too many things at once, can at times, end up being less than more.

Chompie_puppy, one of the things that is important is that when monitoring a birds weight, like you are doing, is that you do it at the same time every day. I recommend as earlier as you can in the morning and then at the same time after that. I am not too concerned about the what you see as a large shift in weight right now, if he was weighed while he had a good amount of food and water in him and then weighed again after passing same, this weight shift would not be unusual.

When their dropping are loose like his are, instead of being drier and balled/tightly packed you get see much more clearly what the their ventriculus/gizzard had ground up. Again, not too worried about seeing ground up bits of this or that, would be much more concerned if he was passing whole seeds.

I think you should now start the 290gm weight as being his new base, not an alarming weight, but we need to get some weight back on him. To do this the quickest way would be through supplemental tube feeding and I am not saying you are not up do managing this, but lets try a few other things first.

Pigeons really love three things to gobble down as treats, there are others, but these three stand out and they pack on the weight quick. They are shelled unsalted sunflower seeds, safflower seeds and raw Spanish peanuts. You should be able to get the sunflower seeds and peanuts at most health food stores and the safflower seeds are carried by many pet stores.

Can you describe the seed mix you are now offering him, what it has in it? I would mix equal parts of the three into a separate deep dish, I use a medium sized ramekin. For the peanuts, because of his digestive ills right now, I would want you to break/chop them up into the size of a lentil or so. This will make them easier to digest for him. See what he favors and add more of that to the mix. These are highly fattening, so this would only be for a little while, until his weight is of a more decent range and continue to offer his regular mix.

If it wasn't for the chocolate poisoning, I just don't know how this would effect his droppings, perhaps others might have an idea, I would say he has enteritis, a GI infection, and he should be treated with Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole, also known as Septra, or Bactrim. I don't know what your situation is in terms of a avian vet, or even a regular vet. For ferals it is extremely important with most vets that you name your bird and call them your pet or they won't treat them. Also, many vets can do a fecal examine to determine cocci, parasites or even a gram stain to test for bacteria without having to bring the bird in, just a fresh amount of droppings.

If you could try and source a single tablet of Septra, Ciprofloxacin or Augmentin, it may be a good idea in case he has to be treated more aggresivly in the next few days. If not through a vet, many family members and friends may have a prescription they could spare one pill from, or even an prescription that they did not finish or that agreed with them they may still have around, or one for their pet dog or cat. Also, many pigeon fanciers keeps meds around, some of whom don't mind helping out a sick feral, instead of Ciprofloxacin they may have Baytril/Enrofloxacin which is the veterinary equivalent of Cipro.

I did some reading on slippery elm while there are reports of it soothing irritated GI's my concern is that in one of the sites I read this: _Slippery elm contains mucilage, a substance that becomes a slick gel when mixed with water. It coats and soothes the mouth, throat, stomach, and intestines; it may also contain antioxidants that can help relieve inflammatory bowel conditions._ I know that when I use throat lozenges that contain slippery elm they do feel very "gummy" and my throat coated, so my fear would be this "mucilage" may coat and hide cocci/parasites that the drugs you are treating him with need to make direct contact to. So unless others feel differently I would still hold off on using it.

I agree, the ability to sleep and balance on one foot is a good sign, good to hear his mouth is clear and what about a photo, if this is still possible, of the "stringy stuff" in his droppings.

Karyn


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## chompie_puppy (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you for the wonderful reply Karyn!

His seed mix consists of red & white millet, black oil sunflower, cracked corn, wheat, groats and milo.

He really likes the black oil sunflower seeds, so I've added more of them to his mix since I know it's fattening and will hopefully put some more weight on him. He also has some chopped up nuts in his mix as well (he likes these too).

The stringy stuff in his droppings was just a once off on the morning after I gave him Ivermectin. I haven't seen it since. It didn't show up on my camera so I couldn't post a photo of it.  Sorry.

I did find out that Vetafarm can test droppings for me at a fee. I just have to send them a sample and they'll get back to me with the results. 

However, I don't know what to test for. Here is a "copy" of the pricelist they gave me:

*Veta-health Check - $30.20
Psittacosis Test - $21.80
Fecal Test for Worms/Coccidiosis - $12.10
Fecal Gram Stain for Megabacteria/Yeast/Bacteria - $18.10

Veta-health Check covers the following:
- Test involves a gram stain and worm test

Gram Stain covers the following:
- Fecal smear and examination
- Megabacteria test
- Yeast/Fungi (cannot identify specific organisms)
- Bacteria (cannot identify specific organisms - e.g. Salmonella)

Fecal Test for worms/coccidiosis covers the following:
- Worm test (can identify the worm type)
- Fecal floatation
- Coccidiosis test

Psittacosis Test covers the following:
- Psittacosis/Chlamydia test (Clearview)*

So... what do you guys think I should test for?

Oh, and here's another photo of Wonka.


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