# hello friends!!! litlle help please!



## ancient homer (Jul 21, 2015)

6 months cock.


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## ancient homer (Jul 21, 2015)

*hello*

i'm new here and i would like you to help me understand the gene combination of this phenotype. i believe that it-s an ash-red as a base color, but further i'm lost... here is a picture of his parents, the recesiv yellow is the cock!


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Spread Ash*

He looks like a spread ash to me. Some folks call this combination lavenders. The sire is probably carrying the spread factor. Two copies of the recessive red gene can hide the spread factor in recessive red and recessive yellow birds.

The only real sure fire way to sort out what the bird is carrying is to put it on a blue bar. If it is carrying spread, you will get some black squabs off it.


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## ancient homer (Jul 21, 2015)

hi Chuck! i forgot to mention that he had very short and rare down when he hatched! so he's also a dilute, but at the bar markings it-s slightly visible a yellowish-pink pigment in the feathers that appeared after the molt, i'm curious why this color isn't present on the neck also? is it the efect of "spread"? from the same parents i have four more youngsters, but they are not yet molted completely.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Homer color*

His dam doesn't look dilute in the picture. Is she a white self or a light ash? 
If she isn't dilute he can't be a 'he'. 

I know that short down is present on dilute and almond squabs from experience. I have also read that short down also occurs with brown, but I haven't see it first hand.

That light bar you are seeing doesn't usually show through on spread pigeons, but I have seen and bred a number of rollers on which the bar shows through the spread. Some of them it shows through very vividly. I believe the reason those birds show the bar is that they are carrying a bronze factor. Bronze is not that common in homers, but that is the only reason I know of for a bird to show a bar.
Spread ash will show the same color through all other parts of the body. The neck on spread ash pigeons is usually a light shiny silver/ash. The expression of spread is also highly variable dependent on the underlying pattern. In barred birds they usually come out a solid ash color.

The problem with being dead certain what the bird is carrying is the fact that it's sire could be any basic color or combination of basic colors under that recessive yellow cover.


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

I would say this bird is dilute spread ash. at the same time, he looks split blue which normally found in lemon pigeons. I know he is not lemon but the dark or dusky color in the bars show the blue shade. This means that the father is dilute recessive red and base blue color split black underneath,


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

His mother appears to be faded brown grizzle, so if his father is brown based ash red (under his dilute rec.red coat) then the young cock could be faded, brown based ash red grizzle. This would explain the short down (caused by the combination of faded and brown) at hatching time and the dark flecks (caused by het. ash red, and likely exaggerated by the faded gene). Actually, that's what he looks like to me.

A few ways to confirm this theory are 
1) are his flecks brown or blue/black?
2) were his eyes pinkish red as a squab?
3) what color are his siblings?


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## ancient homer (Jul 21, 2015)

hello again ! a litlle copletation... his mother is not recesiv white, she has orange-yellow eyes, and few black or dun feathers under the gizzard, 3 or 4 feathers, what you see on her flytes is dirt. i saved her after she took a bath in used car oil. i washed her but not verry succesfuly, now it's becoming whiter as she's molting. 
and yes, as i remember when he was a squab , it looked exageratly bald, right now i have one from the same pair , it's 7 days old, almost no down at all, and the eyes are indeed pinkish-red, like a led when looking in the eye.


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