# One Loft Race Survey Results



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

Looking for feedback on this article and whether you think I should submit it to the Digest.


http://www.irishsyndicatelofts.com/OneLoftSurvey.html


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

irishsyndicate said:


> Looking for feedback on this article and whether you think I should submit it to the Digest.
> 
> 
> http://www.irishsyndicatelofts.com/OneLoftSurvey.html


Well, I'll take a shot at this. Over all I like the article and I think it should be published. At the very least, it would give people something to discuss. 
I see where you're coming from with all the statistics but, who's to say what is over training and what is under training? Who's to say that half of the birds sent to a race aren't up to par to begin with. Who's to say what diseases are being brought in and that in turn could account for losses or at least part of them. Who's to say whether the person running the race has a BAD hawk problem? Every person I fly with has a hawk problem. I don't have one. I can count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the number of birds I've lost to hawks in the past 7 years. 
There's so many variables that go into this. The past few years, I've lost quite a few birds between the beginning of training and the last race. This year, so far, since June, when I opened my loft for the birds, have trained them and they're in the 4th week of racing, I've lost 7 birds. I'm not breeding out of different birds, I haven't fed different, I haven't trained different.......I can't explain it. 
Maybe this article will make people sit up and pay attention to what they're spending thier money on and investigate a little more before dishing out the $$'s.
Also, we don't know if the OLR's you're talking about are the small ones, the big ones, (in terms of entry fees/payouts)......not that should make a difference in how the birds are treated......but I would think it's much easier to "police" the BIG well known races than it would be to "police" the small back yard flyers who try to run a good race that the average Joe can afford. 
I probably need to go back and read the article again. I'm sure I missed some stuff or it didn't sink in.........
But these are my thoughts for now. I sure hope that the other jump in here and give you (and the rest of us) some good feed back. 
This is interesting and it seems you've put quite some time and effort into it.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

irishsyndicate said:


> Looking for feedback on this article and whether you think I should submit it to the Digest.
> 
> 
> http://www.irishsyndicatelofts.com/OneLoftSurvey.html


 I don't know what I may be doing wrong, but I was not able to open it and read it.


----------



## Guest (Sep 21, 2008)

heres what it says hope he doesnt mind that I cut and pasted it here , if so I will remove it 

My 2007 One Loft Race Dashboard A Statistical Analysis
Steve Furlonge (Arizona Federation)
Email: [email protected]

The notion and popularity of one loft racing is gaining momentum without regard for ethics, background checks, standards and constructive feedback. This article is not an attempt to discredit any organization or judge the maintenance of the standards of honesty, integrity and sportsmanship – but to document a few important statistical observations from 2007 one loft races.

For the 2008 season thus far, we have already seen disastrous results with bad loft management practices and decisions. One loft clearly over-trained, another under-trained, another chose to use natural alternatives to routine medication, another has not provided frequent updates, and yet another has not provided a result sheet and it has been two days since the race. Training toss postings should speak volumes and the reader should have enough information to make decisions as to which one-loft events to avoid for 2009.


Definition of “unethical”
Not in accordance with the standards followed in a business or profession

The Gold Standard
A One Loft Race is a business for profit. So what are the “standards” followed in the one loft pigeon racing business? The only standard I have heard is the so-called “Gold Standard” that refers to shipping 50% of the birds entered to the final race. A “Gold Standard” should mean much more than that. Are one loft race managers acting in accordance with standards for housing, feeding, medicating, reporting inventory, training, and maintaining accountability? Who is keeping score? Interestingly, the chemical symbol for Gold is ‘AU’.

A Gold Standard should require an organizer to make many more guarantees than an entrant. For an entrant, the Gold Standard only requires two guarantees i.e. ship healthy birds and pay the dues when called upon. Without a Gold Standard, organizers have adopted various monetary policies i.e. buybacks, sponsorships, pool/entry cuts, auction top birds, high perch fees, inadequate feed/supplements/medications, minimal road miles, and other various attempts at budget-balancing.

Statistical Methodology
In the absence of any guidelines, a diligent data collection effort was undertaken based on twenty-one major one loft races in the USA (including MDPR and Europa Classic for comparisons). They were graded in various categories. To be fair, I have used percentages so as not to identify and discriminate. Only sixteen of those had sufficient published data to complete the analysis. I also added a Bonus category for the extra things that lofts do to differentiate themselves:

1.	Percentage of birds settled, 
2.	Percentage of birds shipped to 100 miles, 
3.	Percentage of birds shipped to 200/250 miles, 
4.	Percentage of birds shipped to 300/350 miles,
5.	Accurate and Frequent Inventory updates,
6.	Percentage of birds shipped that returned on the day of final race, 
7.	Percentage of birds shipped that returned on final race,
8.	Bonus points:
For frequent website updates, vet updates, video release/webcam, hospitality feedback on race day, race day updates for non-attendees, GPS tracker on board, not waiting for tailwinds to release, not bringing birds back to shorter distances, holding birds if conditions are abnormal, accepting feedback, detailed accounting, quick payouts, etc.



%birds	% birds	%birds	% birds	Inventory/	Final Race	Final Race	Bonus	Final 
Settled	100 mile	200 mile	300 mile	Training	% birds	% birds	Points	Points
Updates	returned	on day 
Loft 1	89	75	72	55	100	83	42	80	596
Loft 2	99	75	66	61	90	77	27	80	575
Loft 3	88	74	60	59	100	58	18	100	557
Loft 4	97	91	75	74	70	58	13	30	508
Loft 5	90	58	57	56	80	55	55	40	491
Loft 6	95	65	29	35	95	77	54	40	490
Loft 7	88	68	58	53	90	52	38	40	487
Loft 8	90	82	72	60	80	55	18	20	477
Loft 9	98	77	70	58	100	37	11	20	471
Loft 10	87	75	59	51	90	34	32	30	458
Loft 11	96	59	54	49	100	36	34	30	458
Loft 12	90	87	42	37	100	28	14	50	448
Loft 13	81	55	52	34	40	70	63	50	445
Loft 14	99	73	56	36	50	57	20	10	401
Loft 15	95	48	33	27	100	35	32	20	390
Loft 16	70	61	57	32	70	32	32	20	374
AVERAGE	90.75	70.1875	57	48.5625	84.6875	52.75	31.4375	41.25	476.6
MEDIAN	90	73.5	57.5	52	90	55	32	35	474




Observations
Why would you enter a race that has multiple occurrences of these practices?
1.	Charging a buyback/bond fee for a bird that did not make the final race.
2.	Lack of inventory and general updates - with the advent of the Internet and electronic clocks, there is absolutely no excuse. Any score less than 90 above is unacceptable.
3.	Non-refundable entry fees due before a short qualifying race.
4.	Withholding inventory until entry fees are paid in full.
5.	Inflated inventory to lure entrants into thinking it is a big race.
6.	Waiting for tailwinds to re-schedule 100 – 200 mile training/races.
7.	Losses as much as 30% before even the first training toss without any accountability and notification.
8.	Bringing birds back to shorter distances and then having a blow-home.
9.	Poor training / loft management (including over-training) leading to huge losses.
10.	Some lofts have shipped only 48% of the birds entered to 100 miles.
11.	Some lofts have shipped only 29% of the birds entered to 200 - 250 miles.
12.	Some lofts have shipped only 27% to 35% of the birds entered to the 300 - 350 mile stations. It should be no surprise that those lofts only had 11% to 14% returns on the day.
13.	Bonus points: Any score less than 80 above is unacceptable. The data shows that the top three lofts went the extra mile.
14.	Last year, a GPS tracking device was secretly placed on three separate races. One major race clearly did not go to the advertised distance. On another it was questionable why there were multiple stops close to the release time.
15.	Lofts are now issuing 1099s without detailed accounting sheets that at a minimum should show the amounts taken in and amounts paid out.
16.	Providing kickbacks (in the form of free entries, specialized treatment, etc) to entrants (who are sponsors) that promote the race. These should be advertised or it is a conflict of interest.
17.	No basketing lists.
18.	Deliver what you promise! Do not promise video releases if you cannot deliver!
19.	No live or delayed and online clocking. Do what your competition is providing!
20.	Re-banding of dead/sick pigeons unknown to the entrant.
21.	Slow to payout and using this year’s entry to pay last years capital;
Actual payout is always significantly less than the advertised payout;
Payout will not cover entry fees if there are big first drops. 
22.	No vet updates, frequent cultures and dropping analysis.


Conclusions
The state of one loft racing in the USA leaves much to be desired unless entrants become more vocal and demanding. It is quickly deteriorating into a lose-lose situation for both organizer and entrant. In the absence of any standards, and based on my statistical comparison, my list of entries for one loft races for 2008 season was narrowed through this selection criteria. There remain a handful of outstanding one loft races that excel in each of the above criteria for 2007.

One possibility of a “gold standard” in my opinion would be to be above the median (and/or average) score for each of the graded criteria. In other words, it will be easier to persuade me to enter a race that can achieve the following based solely on statistics:

Settle > 90% of the birds; 
Send > 73% of the birds to a 100 mile trainer/race; 
Send > 57% of the birds to a 200 mile trainer/race; 
Send > 52% of the birds to a 300 mile/final race; 
Should have a perfect score for inventory/website updates; 
Final race > 32% of birds shipped return on the day; 
Final race > 55% birds shipped return in race time.
Bonus points > 90 



This article would be incomplete if I did not commend the Million Dollar Pigeon Race and the crew at Winners Cup USA and the CBS Mercedes Classic in random order for running the top three races statistically for 2007. It should be noted that I am not on the buddy system with any of these lofts. I have declined to identify the lower performers, rather I leave it as an exercise for those to diligently try to improve for 2008 and 2009.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Hit's The Nail On The Head !!*



LokotaLoft said:


> heres what it says hope he doesnt mind that I cut and pasted it here , if so I will remove it
> 
> My 2007 One Loft Race Dashboard A Statistical Analysis
> Steve Furlonge (Arizona Federation)
> ...


WOW !!

Now I have not yet digested the numbers part of this, but I think the writer has hit the nail on the head ! I certainly hope this is submitted for publication, and I hope the RPD prints it. If they don't then it might be an indication that they don't want to offend any of their advertizers. Perhaps this little ray of sunshine will draw some attention to the problem so that solutions can be discussed. 

I think the article is well written, and I was cheering as I read it ! Right On !!


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> WOW !!
> 
> Now I have not yet digested the numbers part of this, but I think the writer has hit the nail on the head ! I certainly hope this is submitted for publication, and I hope the RPD prints it. If they don't then it might be an indication that they don't want to offend any of their advertizers. Perhaps this little ray of sunshine will draw some attention to the problem so that solutions can be discussed.
> 
> I think the article is well written, and I was cheering as I read it ! Right On !!


yea, the numbers/percentages are in charts and are much easier to decipher in the actual article. Did you see my other post to you? Do you have Microsoft Word?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> yea, the numbers/percentages are in charts and are much easier to decipher in the actual article. Did you see my other post to you? Do you have Microsoft Word?


 My hard drive crashed and burned the other week, and many of my programs have yet to be installed on my new system. I am such a novice, I thought transfering all the data from the old hard drive to the new computer would be an easy process. Did not realize...duh...that all my programs have to be regenerated. It may take months to get me back to where I was.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> My hard drive crashed and burned the other week, and many of my programs have yet to be installed on my new system. I am such a novice, I thought transfering all the data from the old hard drive to the new computer would be an easy process. Did not realize...duh...that all my programs have to be regenerated. It may take months to get me back to where I was.


Than, that's why you can't open it. I expect you have Works on your computer. Check and see. If so, I think I can put the document in Works and send it to you by email.


----------



## Guest (Sep 21, 2008)

heres the chart in readable form sorry about that


----------



## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

*well done*

well done 

It will be interesting to see if the they print it .
If they do print it will it change anything in the one loft races?


----------



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

Some great points raised.... and it just cements the fact that a loft with poor stats is to be avoided because you stand a greater probability of losing your hard earned cash even before the races begin.

Why would I want to pay a $1000 entry to a loft that has a huge hawk problem? It's not the loft managers fault - but it is a race to avoid.

Losses in entries = Loss of my money.
i.e. Losses in entries independent of the reason (hawks, attract a lot of entries with diseases, over training, under training, inbred stuff, tough course, bad loft management) 




Lovebirds said:


> Well, I'll take a shot at this. Over all I like the article and I think it should be published. At the very least, it would give people something to discuss.
> I see where you're coming from with all the statistics but, who's to say what is over training and what is under training? Who's to say that half of the birds sent to a race aren't up to par to begin with. Who's to say what diseases are being brought in and that in turn could account for losses or at least part of them. Who's to say whether the person running the race has a BAD hawk problem? Every person I fly with has a hawk problem. I don't have one. I can count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the number of birds I've lost to hawks in the past 7 years.
> There's so many variables that go into this. The past few years, I've lost quite a few birds between the beginning of training and the last race. This year, so far, since June, when I opened my loft for the birds, have trained them and they're in the 4th week of racing, I've lost 7 birds. I'm not breeding out of different birds, I haven't fed different, I haven't trained different.......I can't explain it.
> Maybe this article will make people sit up and pay attention to what they're spending thier money on and investigate a little more before dishing out the $$'s.
> ...


----------



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

Overtraining: Taking the birds down the road daily and beating the crap out of them with more than two-three 100-120 mile tosses, and several 75-99 mile tosses, before a short 150mile blow home race.

Undertraining: Birds poorly trained out to 100-120 miles and then taken straight to a 300-350mile race.

I don't want to call names here but the above two scenarios are undersirable - the latter being the more undesirable.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

irishsyndicate said:


> Overtraining: Taking the birds down the road daily and beating the crap out of them with more than two-three 100-120 mile tosses, and several 75-99 mile tosses, before a short 150mile blow home race.
> 
> Undertraining: Birds poorly trained out to 100-120 miles and then taken straight to a 300-350mile race.
> 
> I don't want to call names here but the above two scenarios are undersirable - the latter being the more undesirable.


Point taken. I hope you let us know when you submit the article. Will they tell you what issue it will be printed in?


----------



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

fastpitch dad said:


> well done
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the they print it .
> If they do print it will it change anything in the one loft races?



Hopefully it raises an awareness in entrants - that it is relatively easy to determine which races to avoid.

The #1 reason to avoid a race is when their website has a lack of frequent and meaningful updates (inventory, training tosses, medication, vaccination, etc)


----------



## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

I got my new issue for nov. 15th of RPD ,thumbed through the pages and came upon your article. I read it , and thought it was tastefully done . 



> Hopefully it raises an awareness in entrants - that it is relatively easy to determine which races to avoid.


I think it will do that. After reading it I turned the page and there was another article about one loft races. which was more about what should be expected of them and I think between the two articles , some eyes got opened, not only by the people sending the birds ,but by the race manager(S). Maybe there will be some type standard or guideline that the races will have to follow.


----------



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

One loft races are for ONLY the big time pigeon sellers now...If Mr Big sends 25 birds to a one loft race,and he`s paying $1,200.00 per bird,what chance does a Pigeon Fancier have shipping probally only one bird ??? His bird might be better then the 25 from Mr Big,but 25 to 1 is hard to beat on race day...Also,Mr Big`s birds get extra care,because they like his $30,000.00 that he sends them for the 25 birds.....The "ONE LOFT" races will be on thin ice very soon...When all the "LITTLE GUYS" don`t ship any birds in,for MR BIG to win their money,MR BIG will not be shipping any in either !! You can take that to the bank !!! The best is to ship your birds to good lofts to fly in the futurity races...HE/SHE will really try to get YOUR birds to WIN...Because HE wins also...The handler will get a nice share of the points...The idea that the one loft is the fairest because ALL the birds are flying to the same loft...I beg to differ !!! If I send birds to 3 Futurity races,and 6 or 7 different flyers are handleing my birds,and they all score very well in the results in all the races,who is going to tell me that my birds are NOT as good as MR BIG in the ONE LOFT RACE ??? I beg to differ that my birds are BETTER !!! Why you ask ?? Because 9 different flyers will NOT train,feed,medicate,modivate the birds the same way at all...That just shows how good the birds really are...No matter how you do it,they still score big !!! Nothing better then someone flying your YB in a race, that the WIND is NOT in his favor,and still scoring major points in the race !!! It`s ONLY a matter of time,when the little man will keep his YB`s home,or send them to other little men to fly...I wonder how many negitive articules in the Digest it will take for this to happen ???
For the record,I think if YOU have had a BAD something happen in a ONE LOFT RACE,it should be shown in black print in the digest...Why hide it from the hobby ??? That`s what the one loft guys want...Sometimes bad print will make them shape up and fly right !!!.......Alamo


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Alamo said:


> One loft races are for ONLY the big time pigeon sellers now...If Mr Big sends 25 birds to a one loft race,and he`s paying $1,200.00 per bird,what chance does a Pigeon Fancier have shipping probally only one bird ??? His bird might be better then the 25 from Mr Big,but 25 to 1 is hard to beat on race day...Also,Mr Big`s birds get extra care,because they like his $30,000.00 that he sends them for the 25 birds.....The "ONE LOFT" races will be on thin ice very soon...When all the "LITTLE GUYS" don`t ship any birds in,for MR BIG to win their money,MR BIG will not be shipping any in either !! You can take that to the bank !!! The best is to ship your birds to good lofts to fly in the futurity races...HE/SHE will really try to get YOUR birds to WIN...Because HE wins also...The handler will get a nice share of the points...The idea that the one loft is the fairest because ALL the birds are flying to the same loft...I beg to differ !!! If I send birds to 3 Futurity races,and 6 or 7 different flyers are handleing my birds,and they all score very well in the results in all the races,who is going to tell me that my birds are NOT as good as MR BIG in the ONE LOFT RACE ??? I beg to differ that my birds are BETTER !!! Why you ask ?? Because 9 different flyers will NOT train,feed,medicate,modivate the birds the same way at all...That just shows how good the birds really are...No matter how you do it,they still score big !!! Nothing better then someone flying your YB in a race, that the WIND is NOT in his favor,and still scoring major points in the race !!! It`s ONLY a matter of time,when the little man will keep his YB`s home,or send them to other little men to fly...I wonder how many negitive articules in the Digest it will take for this to happen ???
> For the record,I think if YOU have had a BAD something happen in a ONE LOFT RACE,it should be shown in black print in the digest...Why hide it from the hobby ??? That`s what the one loft guys want...Sometimes bad print will make them shape up and fly right !!!.......Alamo


You go ahead and send yours to the futurities...I will send mine to the one loft races. Each to his own. No question that there are problems with some of the one loft events. Those will fall by the wayside in time. There are, however, some events that are setting new standards for fairness and transparency when it comes to how the birds are handled.

Dan


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*One Loft Events.....Still the Best Deal*



Alamo said:


> *One loft races are for ONLY the big time pigeon sellers now...*If Mr Big sends 25 birds to a one loft race,and he`s paying $1,200.00 per bird,what chance does a Pigeon Fancier have shipping probally only one bird ??? His bird might be better then the 25 from Mr Big,but 25 to 1 is hard to beat on race day...Also,Mr Big`s birds get extra care,because they like his $30,000.00 that he sends them for the 25 birds.....The "ONE LOFT" races will be on thin ice very soon...When all the "LITTLE GUYS" don`t ship any birds in,for MR BIG to win their money,MR BIG will not be shipping any in either !! You can take that to the bank !!! The best is to ship your birds to good lofts to fly in the futurity races...HE/SHE will really try to get YOUR birds to WIN...Because HE wins also...The handler will get a nice share of the points...*The idea that the one loft is the fairest because ALL the birds are flying to the same loft...I beg to differ !!! *If I send birds to 3 Futurity races,and 6 or 7 different flyers are handleing my birds,and they all score very well in the results in all the races,who is going to tell me that my birds are NOT as good as MR BIG in the ONE LOFT RACE ??? I beg to differ that my birds are BETTER !!! Why you ask ?? Because 9 different flyers will NOT train,feed,medicate,modivate the birds the same way at all...That just shows how good the birds really are...No matter how you do it,they still score big !!! Nothing better then someone flying your YB in a race, that the WIND is NOT in his favor,and still scoring major points in the race !!! It`s ONLY a matter of time,when the little man will keep his YB`s home,or send them to other little men to fly...I wonder how many negitive articules in the Digest it will take for this to happen ???
> For the record,I think if YOU have had a BAD something happen in a ONE LOFT RACE,it should be shown in black print in the digest...Why hide it from the hobby ??? That`s what the one loft guys want...Sometimes bad print will make them shape up and fly right !!!.......Alamo


Hello Alamo,

I can understand how someone might draw the conclusions which you have listed, but I do respectfully disagree with you on a number of points.

I have now entered birds in a number of One Loft events in a number of states, as I have also entered birds in a number of different Futurity events with different handlers also. I now have a little experience with both worlds, and from my perspective, from a "Testing" perspective, the One Loft Event is still the best way to go in my personal opinion. 

I personally don't see things the same way you do as far as "Mr. Big" vs. "Little Guy". I don't see a big disadvantage in having this so called "Mr. Big" pay what you say is $30,000 to compete in a big race, and the "Little Guy" has a 25 to 1 disadvantage. First of all, there are not that many events where a Mr. Big actually enters 25 birds at $1200 each. Most of those birds, are not going to be "In the Money", so a good portion of that money is going to go to a 1st place winner, that most people never heard of, and who only entered a small team. I think what is going on here, is a bit of class envy.

Now, let's touch on the Futurity events, and your statement, *"The idea that the one loft is the fairest because ALL the birds are flying to the same loft...I beg to differ !!"* What is important in these events, is whose loft you have your birds in, and his loft location, and the wind direction on race day. If your handler has a better loft, a better location, better management, etc. and the wind favors his location, well then, how is that "fair" ?  I belong to a hundred+ member Combine, and I am sure, that my Combine, like many of our readers, will have members who could win races with barn pigeons, they are just so skilled. Then of course, everyone knows of some members, that could be handed some of the best YB's in the World, and it still would not increase their odds of winning on race day. Any one who does not understand that simple concept, is most likely not ready for the "Mr. Big" Events anyway, because they have more homework to do.

If you think you have some really world class birds, then the only way to separate the loft, loft location, management skills, etc. from the equation, is to place your birds into a One Loft Event, and have them all trained and fed the same way, and allow the race results to tell the story. And, there are a number of good One Loft Events, where you don't have to "invest" $1200 per bird. Both the "Winners Cup" and the "Flamingo" offer some solid competition with "only" a $300 capital prize fee. 

I also have to respectfully disagree with you, that the One Loft Races "are ONLY for the big time pigeon sellers". The "Delmonte Brothers" won this year's 400 Mile Winners Cup and I never heard of them before, don't even know if they have a web site, and never saw any flashy RPD ad's yet. For their story see http://www.winnerscupusa.com/ They are simply skilled breeders who are sportsmen, they are breeding some good pigeons, and enjoying success in a number of One Loft Events. Because this is a sport, where the *"Little Guy"* breeding some great pigeons in his back yard, can become a "Mr. Big" and not by becoming a top pigeon merchant, but by winning races, with his own family of birds !!

So, don't anyone be intimidated by the "Mr. Big" pigeon merchant, if he happens to ship 25 birds to the same race you are inspired to win, just smile when you win like the Delmonte Brothers....all the way to the bank !!


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2008)

just for informational purposes the DEL MONTE BROTHERS do have a website and do very well with their birds in many of the one loft races ... heres the link to their site http://www.delmontebrotherslofts.com/home


----------



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Enjoyed reading the last few posts...I do agree with you that there ARE good one loft races being held here in the USA...But how many BAD one loft races do you hear about ?? No one wants to spill the beans on the bad guys...As far as my opinion goes,I like flying MY birds..I only breed about 25 to 30 YB`s..My dad this this for many years in New York..And on race day,400+ lofts had to contend with a little guy with BIG birds !!!
I only keep 40 birds max during the winter...That`s stock birds and old birds for the race team and the droppers...I bred 28 birds in 2008...I started with 24 YB`s for the 1st yb race,and ended up with 18 after all the races were over...I don`t like culling pigeons,especially when they could make excellent OB flyers...I don`t fly for money...I fly for the love of the birds...To show you how much I love the birds,my lofts were 6 miles from my home...I used to go out and feed/clean up 2 to 3 times per day... 24 to 36 miles per day last year at $3 + per gallon for gas...How about since 1984,I only had electric for my lofts for 2 years...In the last 2 years,I had to move my lofts off the property where they were located...Been trying to buy land for the lofts,but at $20,000 or more an acre,I`m not doing it..I have a great home,with not hardley enough room for the lofts..In town,there is an ordinance on any loft has to be at least 150 feet from any home/church etc...I have the lofts 1 mile from my home now...That`s about as close as I can get to my home for the birds..Oh I forgot,I pay $50.00 per month RENT for the lofts to be where they are...No water,no electric,pay rent etc etc !!! Who loves their birds more then I do ??? My wife says I'M a bird brain...I agree !!! hahahahaha!! I had tiny pigeon lofts on the roof tops of NYC growing up..At 10,I had about 50 Flights/Tipplets etc...The one thing I know when I was a teenager,the birds kepted me out of trouble...I was on the roof with the birds,when all the gang fights etc were going on in the streets...I owe my clean lifestyle to the birds..I will allways be in debt to them..I say this because I know of a few guys from the neighborhood that are dead,or were in jail for awhile because they were on the streets....I just don`t see dollar signs when I look at my birds...Maybe I`m a little foolish in this regard...Long ago,I won a 500 mile Combine race from the SW direction that we flew..I was told I was going to get my BUTT kicked in the 2nd 500 mile race in two weeks,because the race from out of the West,and the prevailing wind is SW 90% of the time..Well,I won the 2nd 500 mile combine race...Average OB flyers were 75 to 90 lofts,with birdage around 800 or so...This, I was told by the "Old Timers", was the 1st time a loft has won both 500 milers from different directions...I don`t think money could change the satisfaction I had from doing what my birds did...No electric,No water,Rent to pay !!! Who Cares !!! I`m having a great time !!!........Alamo


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LokotaLoft said:


> just for informational purposes the DEL MONTE BROTHERS do have a website and do very well with their birds in many of the one loft races ... heres the link to their site http://www.delmontebrotherslofts.com/home


Thanks for the information !

I certainly don't think you could label them "Big Time Pigeon Sellers". To me, it appears more like some "Little Guys" who have made good, by developing some good pigeons. Really does not matter, if some "Mr. Big" may have entered 25 or 50 birds into these races, at the end of the day, the better bird won. And that is why this sport opens so many opportunities to the "Little Guy". Does not matter if you race for fun, or for money. You are only as good as you want to be, and how willing you are to reach a little, and have a little self confidence.


----------



## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

IF Mr. Big is sending 25 good pigeons from his proven proven foundation pairs, then it may be a different outcome. 

1) Usually Mr. Big is just trying the numbers game in the hopes that one hits and then we see an ad in the Digest. 

2) Mr Big is usually not flying the local clubs as well, so he has to prove his matings in a one loft environment to determine what is clicking.

3) Mr Big knows his birds even if they do not win (but are on the front page of the race report) will command big bucks in the auction. So if he paid a $1000 entry, they may sell for $2500.

I don't believe it is unfair. In fact, I would like Mr. Big to send 100 pigeons to the race while I will send 4 from my proven foundation pair.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

irishsyndicate said:


> IF Mr. Big is sending 25 good pigeons from his proven proven foundation pairs, then it may be a different outcome.
> 
> 1) Usually Mr. Big is just trying the numbers game in the hopes that one hits and then we see an ad in the Digest.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail squarely on the head !

If there was a One Loft Race with 200 entry's by the time the big last race came up, and one Mr. Big entered 197 birds and I only had 3....or if there was 197 birds from 197 different fancier's what at the end of the day, is the difference ? There will always be people who feel that it gives Mr. Big an edge, so some One Loft events, are now limiting the number of teams any one fancier can enter. So there are now events where people who feel that way, can send birds to just those events. Of course with such events, there will be wives who enter birds, or friends of a fancier who will enter birds under their names. 

The fact of the matter is, you will really never know if your local winner's are because of your loft, management or loft location, or any other variables, or because they are simply better birds then the rest of your club or combine.The One Loft Race, allows you to see how your breeding stacks up against some of the best in the country. Do they get lost off the landing board ? Lost in training ? Do they all end up in the bottom 1/3, or in the top 1/3 ? At various distances ? I know I sent a larger then average number of bird's to some of these events, not in an attempt to "buy" the race, but as a way to compare my various pairings, and to see which birds had the right stuff. For instance, this past season, my #1 & #2 birds in the Winner's Cup were brother and sister. I now know, without a doubt, that pairing "clicked". 

Would I have liked to have scored higher and won more prizes, sure. But, it was also valuable for me to see what percentage of inbreeding may begin to affect performance, when compared to some of the best. I consider the One Loft Race a very valuable tool, which allows me to improve my colony. 

Without this tool, I might draw conclusions about my bird's performance, which could be wrong. Perhaps much like High School wrestling, I was a bit smug eek about my abilities, and my title of "undefeated "....that was until I competed on a State wide basis. Then I faced a real good wrestler from another county...and reality.... that I really wasn't that good after all......


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Here is a link which recently came across my desk. I am always on the look out for that pigeon which can take our loft to the next level of competition. What struck me, is how small this particular breeding loft is. Apparently a winner of the "Triple Crown" came from this small back yard loft. For those who may not be aware of what the Triple Crown race is, it's three races within one week. It's like an Iron Man competition. 

Anyway here is the link to this particular "Mr. BIG" : http://www.cordovalofts.com/

Which just goes to show that even a little guy can beat the big boys with even a small back yard loft. A "huge" 4 x 8 loft....

http://www.cordovalofts.com/page05.html


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LokotaLoft said:


> heres what it says hope he doesnt mind that I cut and pasted it here , if so I will remove it
> 
> My 2007 One Loft Race Dashboard A Statistical Analysis
> Steve Furlonge (Arizona Federation)
> ...


*"and the crew at Winners Cup USA" *Turns out we have three members here at Pigeon Talk who have entered this Winners Cup USA event this year, I know we are all looking forward to a well run race. I was already impressed with my own experience in 2008, when I sent some birds to this event, based on a solid reference coming from some professionals in Brooksville, Fla. and I was not disappointed. It is just reassuring that this article lists this event as one of the top events out of the sixteen some events which were evaluated.


----------

