# Changed voice



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

As you can hear in the video, this pigeon's voice is alterated. What can have caused this? He otherwise looks healthy. I've read that aspergillus can cause voice change but are there other possiblities?

Also: what are you doing for aspergillus? Has anybody managed to cure a bird from this disease?



*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_CvwV23QUY*


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

How do you think the birds voice sounds different? Sounds like a normal pigeon to me. Lovely bird, looks very healthy.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

This is because camera's microphone removes that types of sounds (is a function aimed at reducing the effect of blowing wind on the recorded soundtrack). 

Now is worsened, almost lost his voice but is not aspergillus because I noticed the symptom ot other pigeons. Maybe mites (I have an epidemy) or herpesvirus. It started also to make gurgling sound (like runny nose), without any apparent liquid. I had similar symptoms at other pigeons (including those from the thread "Eye worm or overdrug use?") and I think this may be the canker that appeared on the scarces produced by mites on the respiratory system (maybe in air sacks).


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Proved to be mites, as he regained the voice after giving invermectine. Is the first time I meet this condition, at all other few cases in past and four in last days, the pigeons were "hiccuping", like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZmrwYaGKGU


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Andrei, that bird sounds perfectly normal to me too. Healthy and fiesty and kicked ur a$$ good lol. Beautiful bird, and I would not harass it like u did if I were you. I bet u were doing that to try to get it to talk so we could hear but it did sound normal. Anyway, good that u figured it all out. LOVE the color and the spunk.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I have him from the spring of 2014 and know him well (is my first grandfather), it was not his voice. And I'm not harassing him, that is his main kind of fun, usually is begging me to do that.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Andrie, he is wing slapping you and pecking you, they wing slap when they try to protect themselves so it doesn't look like he is begging you to do that and having fun in that. My cock does it to defend it's territory. 
By the way, a beautiful bird indeed.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

He is playing. One of his sons, who became father last days, is my most friendly (toward me) pigeon, stays on me, yet he also like to bite me. Sort of affection.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I have never seen wing slapping as an affection. They peck lightly and preen when they are happy. But when they are aggressive they show the very similar behavior of wing slapping and pecking as your cock is showing. So even if he is tame, he isn't happy with you in video, you will have to understand him what he is trying to show so you could not harass him .


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is true that he hates me because I punished him sometimes, puting him in a drawer for few minutes, because was beating and chasing away other pigeons (one of his sons got scared for this reason, left and never returned) but also he likes to play like that. 

When I enter the room or look at him he immediately goes to his place (if wasn't already there) and provokes me with those sounds, hoping he will have a little fight. Btw, he usually is more agile but had an accident at one leg recently.

A video that I shot right now:

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvxoYLH_Ys*


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Andrei, I am surprised to see, you have written "a playful pigeon" rather he is very aggressive.
Secondly how can you punish a bird, will he understand why is he put in a drawer? Will this thing ever change him? Rather he will get scared of you and will try to protect himself from you. 
I recently came to know about a guy who is a rescuer of pigeons but when any feral harms his any stuff, he shoots him for punishment? I said straightforward that "to expect animals to be wise and not cause damage is foolish they are animals but to kill animals because they aren't wise enough to not cause damage is totally brutal." 

Now really you have to think is it wise to punish a bird, I am really surprised to know if a bird can be punished. I would think teachers give punishments to students to improve them but can pigeons be improved? They can only understand love as I see them, whenever they peck me, I hold them in lap and pet them and they love that way. Sometimes I offer them seeds from my hand and they understand this language. Think about it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> Andrei, I am surprised to see, you have written "a playful pigeon" rather he is very aggressive.


Aren't all the males like that? Here at least, they are.


> Secondly how can you punish a bird, will he understand why is he put in a drawer? Will this thing ever change him? Rather he will get scared of you and will try to protect himself from you.


I saw not other mean to reduce the agressivity. As I said, I was intending especially to stop him (and other males) from terrorizing others. They are terrorizing those who they want determine to leave, in order to get more living space.

And yes they understand. If you apply the punishment each time immediately they commit the bad deed, they understand what you want. Now when they start harassing some other pigeon, often is enough to say to agressor to stop to make him return to his place. Often, yet, they are stubborn and continue doing the bad thing, but always they understand.



> I would think teachers give punishments to students to improve them but can pigeons be improved?


Unfortunately, as with humans, those that started abusing others apparently never find a way of changing themselves to better persons. At humans, this is caused by vanity shame, because they would have to admit they're inferior to others and that hurt their ego. At animals, is because the concept of equality and respect for others cannot be contemplated / understood by a being without abstract thinking, as are only humans.

But with those punishments I managed to reduce their agressivity and loses of birds, because they scared many birds that were born at me or sick birds that entered the windows and tried to remain at me, making them leave my house and possibly dying soon (because afterward I was seeing them coming to window for a period, then not anymore).


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Males are like that everywhere but aggravating them more is not a fun or play for them rather to pet and love them. 
Well this was just my opinion and a humble advice Andrei but of course if you think what you do works for you, you can carry on. 
I have no ego to learn from people and accept if I am wrong. When people have egos and feel inferior the door to learning is closed. I find myself inferior than everyone and I like to be like that because I understand I know nothing and do nothing in comparison of experienced members here and you too are an experienced member.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> Males are like that everywhere but aggravating them more is not a fun or play for them rather to pet and love them.


I try to make them happy and this white pigeon really feel happy when I play with him that way. He is not as agressive as others and biting I think is in this situation a way they try to interact more intense with me. 




> I find myself inferior than everyone and I like to be like that because I understand I know nothing and do nothing in comparison of experienced members here and you too are an experienced member.


I know what you talk about, at one point in my life I tried to become a monk and lived a time in a monastery where I was exposed to this kind of ideas, in fact they pretty much constitute my set of values and principles.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I never tried to be a monk nor I ever joined any monastery. I didn't receive any preachings too like that . I just follow religious scriptures and those are my guides.
I told you what I feel and what I am because you talked about egos and being inferior etc. So I tried to tell I am not superior to anyone, I am just a common person and my advice may sound no good to any experienced person , still I told what I felt as my opinion.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

In any case I didn't refer or alude to you when I said that, nor I think you're like thatn. From your posts, I made about you an opposite opinion.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

And what was that opposite opinion? I couldn't get what is opposite to it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Non - arrogant, no self-sufficient.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with kiddy. Would encourage tame rather than aggressive behavior by giving kindness and teaching the male to trust you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I thought you are talking about something opposite related to monk, monastery and preaching. So I thought what it could be. Sorry.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

cwebster said:


> Agree with kiddy. Would encourage tame rather than aggressive behavior by giving kindness and teaching the male to trust you.


If a male would live alone, I think he may become as you say. But in a pigeon's society, they feel the need to be agressive, otherwise they can't defend their family so I doubt I will see male turning gentle.


As an update to the topic, around other 7 pigeons got mites, two young pigeons may have died as they didn't return home. All of them presented hiccups that stopped after giving invermectine (except the two that I didn't treat), and afterward they lost their voice. I'm not sure if this problem with the sirynx (vocal organs of birds) is caused by mites or rather by the canker that instals in the wounds created by mites, as apparently some pigeons regained voice after giving metronidazole.


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