# Darn Hawks!!!



## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I am so mad right now! If I lived way out in the country side, I'd be doin' me some hawk-huntin' right now!!!

You can't swing a dead cat in my neighborhood without hitting a mourning dove of feral pigeon, but my birds, out for an afternoon exercise before dinner just got chased by a hawk! Coopers or Sharp-Shinned.

I almost lost Brownie.

I had let them out. They usually don't fly for long, so I have the feeders ready before letting them out. They were circling and staring to come back down and some had already landed on the roof / loft when I saw them scatter... feathers... and a hawk in pursuit. I yelled and the hawk split around the corner. Brownie was down in the neighbors yard and fluttering around when I looked over the fence. After a quick few, she regained herself, flew up to the roof and then after several more minutes, came in. The others circled way up high for about 15 - 20 minutes, circled back down and quickly trapped in.

I inspected my birds that had been out when they came back in and besides some missing feathers all seem fine; no wounds.

Damn Hawk must live in the area. When ever I get the chance to fly my birds on a more regular basis he shows up.  Wish I could go looking for his home, but I guess he could be anywhere within a mile or two radius, at least, I'd guess. I wish he'd learn to go look for dinner elsewhere or learn to eat rocks!!


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Glad to hear none of your birds got hit. Maybe you can prevent this by not letting them out in a pattern which is what hawks look for. Maybe you shouldnt let them out for a couple days and let them out at random times so the hawk doesnt always come back at the same time.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Wow! So sorry your birds were hit by a hawk! Glad that they all made it home alive. How terrifying for you, having to watch that drama!!!


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

Good to hear, everybody is A okay...I do agree with Pidgy and Terri...for some reason those hawks knows what time the flock of pigeons fly in the morning so here they are gliding around...

I noticed that the best time to let them loft flying is between 6 - 8 in the morning, over here by me I never seen those hawks to hunt that early, Im not saying they are not around but never seen them flying over me or my loft around those hours so if I do let them out I make sure I look up then open the training basket, fly for awhile then go in to eat...


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## thebirdhi (Oct 8, 2006)

I saw 7or 8 hawks flying over my loft in everett wa and in my country i had 10 hawks flying there. 
P.S. If it is on the ground it can't take off it needs a higher elevation to take off.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I have noticed more hawks in my area. This is the time they migrate, and don't forget their other meals have been gathering food for the winter, so they are not as available now.

Watch out ZZM, you will find they have traded fur for feathers here in S. CA at least through March.

Interesting thread! Fin Hawks, I've never heard of them. 
Just now caught your meaning. Sometimes I'm a little slow.

Feather


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> I have noticed more hawks in my area. This is the time they migrate, and don't forget their other meals have been gathering food for the winter, so they are not as available now.
> 
> Watch out ZZM, you will find they have traded fur for feathers here in S. CA at least through March.
> 
> ...


Actually, Feather, you are just too nice...not to mention, hysterically funny!

Unfortunately (?? ), I - ah - "caught" on right away...  

We Scorpios tend to know the good, the bad and the ugly, at an early age! ROFL


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*re Fin hawks*

Must be a new breed only pigeon fanciers and lovers recognize.

Ditto, Feather, you are funny.

I'm slower than you! Was thinking did he mention red-finned hawks? And Feather wasn't aware of them? I know I'm not up on all the terms, and am still trying to get the German equivalent names sorted out. More stuff to plow through. My pigeon Wieteke and his mate Mamieke just now tore off after hearing crow calls, probably a falcon in the area, but three young ones held back. The pigeons here are very falcon and hawk savvy, and use some amazing evasion techniques (flying close to the ground or building roof-tops so that a diving raptor has no room to slow down in case of a near miss, cutting corners close to zip around a building or obstacle). 

I think my rescued-and-hand-raised male *Wieteke* and his feral mate *Mamieke* are considering setting up a nest in one of the windows across the street from us. There has been a nest for years in one of the windows, but not sure if it is the best choice. Once saw the window open and a hand come out and do something (don't know what) with the eggs. 

Larry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

mr squeaks said:


> Actually, Feather, you are just too nice...not to mention, hysterically funny!
> *
> Unfortunately (??), I - ah - "caught" on right away...
> 
> We Scorpios tend to know the good, the bad and the ugly, at an early age! ROFL*


Ahem, me too.  You said it all right there. And did you know the name of my rescue just happens to be "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (because that's what I take in  )?  
****************
Good luck with the hawk, Zigzagmarquis.....thank goodness they're all okay.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Feather, I love you! You always manage to make me smile - along with buddy Shi!

Shi and I, uh, being more mature  caught on right away. You have probably just introduced a new hawk species.

ZZM, if you can see him try hitting him with a spray of water.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Feather, I love you! You always manage to make me smile - along with buddy Shi!
> 
> Shi and I, uh, being more mature  caught on right away. You have probably just introduced a new hawk species.
> 
> ZZM, if you can see him try hitting him with a spray of water.


Thank very much, Lady T, but, ah, I KNOW you are mature (I mean this as a compliment - as in "wise."). However, I never did grow up (mature???) plus I had some - ah - interesting "influences" and learned things at quite an early age. Some of my friends call me "baaad," but I have no idea why...we Scorpios just happen to "know" certain things and are a "sponge" for others!  

I'm sure MJ can relate...

BTW, thanks to Feather, we now ALL KNOW about F'IN HAWKS!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Feather said:


> I have noticed more hawks in my area. This is the time they migrate, and don't forget their other meals have been gathering food for the winter, so they are not as available now.
> 
> Watch out ZZM, you will find they have traded fur for feathers here in S. CA at least through March.
> 
> ...


I needed a laugh and right there it was!!! FIN HAWKS!! ROFLOL
Of course when I read the title I knew what he meant as I say that every time one comes after my birds, plus a few other choice words.......so it didn't occur to me that someone wouldn' pick up on the meaning right away. That is SO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

mr squeaks said:


> Unfortunately (?? ), I - ah - "caught" on right away...





Lady Tarheel said:


> Shi and I, uh, being more mature  caught on right away.



**Sigh**.......yep, me too.....I knew what he meant right away.... 


Tim - Glad that Fin the Hawk didn't get any of your birds!


Linda


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## dovegirl (Apr 15, 2006)

I found some stick-on eyes that you put on the top of the pigeons shoulder. 

I found these once on the internet but I can't find them again. 

The Hawk looks down and sees these 2 eyes on the pigeons shoulder and thinks the pigeon is big scary animal. 

I have a science book that shows some butterflies with these eyes on their wings, and birds don't eat them.

My dad wants to draw some large black eyes onto Comets shoulder using a thick black sharpie. He hasn't done it yet but he was talking about it. Will it work?

Regards
Ellie


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

dovegirl said:


> I found some stick-on eyes that you put on the top of the pigeons shoulder.
> 
> I found these once on the internet but I can't find them again.
> 
> ...


Ellie,

I've read about this in one of my pigeon books and seen pictures where some fanciers / racers will paint what looks like "eyes" on the "shoulder" part of the wings on their lighter colored birds when they send them out to exercise or race.

I don't know what is used when this is done, but I don't think I'd start off trying it with a Sharpie pen.

I don't know if it is truely effective or not. I'd suppose its kinda an "old wives tale".

One thought would be, if it really did work, Pigeons would have evolved with markings of their own like that to ward off hawks and owls.

On the other hand, I've also heard the theory that lighter colored birds (reds, silver-bars, meally-bars, etc) are more likely to be hit by hawks then say blue-checks or blue-bars... but if this were true, then you'd think evolution would have bread that out of pigeons, but it hasn't... look at any feral flock and you'll still see those morphs.

So... who really knows.

Only the pigeons do...  and they ain't talkin'...


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

ZZM,

I was told that white birds attracted hawks more than any other color. Most of my birds are white. Lately I read on this forum that the bird that sticks out the most will be hit first. From experience I tend to believe this theory. I do have a little red tumbler that flies with my whites. He looks like a bulls eye to me. I always try to keep him in when I let my birds out but sometimes he is just too fast. 

The hawks go after the colored birds that fly with my whites. I am blessed that I have had no fatalities. But the birds that have been hit have been the ones that stands out among the whites. I assume that it would be the same with blue bars if there were just a few whites.

Actually, I would try anything that would tip the scales in my favor. If drawing eyes on the wings of my pigeons just might work. I would be willing to try it.

Good luck everyone, 

Feather


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Prey with unusual markings*

I have read (in one of Michael Crighton's books, I believe, perhaps even in his book _Prey_, -- don't have time to look it up) that scientists studying predators and prey would mark an antelope with paint, and as they expected, that animal was he one that was caught, killed, and eaten by the lions, even thought he antelope was healhy and stood out from the others in no other way.

Pigeon fanciers may have gotten the idea of trying out painting eyes on wings from seeing eye markings on butterfly wings and caterpillar wings.

Also, I have a suspicion that some people will recommend and pass along "tips" that they themselves would rather not try out first.

If you consider all that has been said in all of the posts and threads relating to this topic, and apply the same to self, we all try to appear "normal" and "healthy" (with make-up, clothing, etc.). I you try to focus on an individual in a fast-moving crowd or herd or flock, the one which stands out the most, is the one your eye can follow. 

Larry


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

That is an excellent point Larry. I guess if one changed the appearance of an animal in anyway, that it would be the one that stood out. How about if you put eyes on all of your birds? Any thing that worked that would not harm my birds, I would be willing to try. 

My birds are pretty hawk savy, but we have been missing a major element in our survival package for the last 4 months. THE CROWS are gone!!!!!

The other morning I went out and opened up a couple of lofts, not one bird flew out. That told me that a hawk was very close. I never did see him, but the song birds were quiet for about 2 hrs. That is a erie feeling to know that a preditor is close, but you don't know where.

Once again, best of luck everyone,
Feather


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

He he... its raining here today. My birds are in the loft whre its warm, dry & safe and that hawk is out there getting rained on somewhere.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Be fortunate, my grandpa lost one roller per day every other day for 2 weeks. There is a hawk in the area (still) and was taking out his best rollers. I had one get eaten my a hawk, my beautiful bald head check, that performed surpisingly excellent. Another one in my neighbors yard, a dun, that performed, but not as well, and bless her, she is 70 and knows I have pigeons and got up from sitting on her porch and chased it away, it got free because of her. I know how you feel, were all the same way when this happens. They're just trying to live too. Save a pigeon......eat a squirrel. HAHA!


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Another thing, if you have crows around.....if you have old hamburg, find a spot where they hang at and put it there. I do that and they chase away the hawks. If not they definitally let you know they are coming.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Tim,

I hate to ask, but this one I never did figure out! WHAT IS AN OLD HAMBURG? I made the statement that I would do anything to tip the scales to my birds favor. I just don't know what it is.

Feather


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Hamburg Tumblers*

I believe it to be a tumbler. They are good at eluding hawks I believe Feather.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Ahhh, old hamburger...late night , you are right!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Yeah, that's what I thought - hamburger. But, isn't that a name for a hat men used to wear?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

You're absolutely right! Thanks.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

LOL.....sorry for the mis-type. Don't know where the "R" went in hamburger. hehe I actually heard that from somebody in here, and it worked for me when I flew. Plus.....I just found an OWL decoration along the road today, so I sat it up ontop of the loft......I don't fly now....but maby it will help me out in the long run.  Scare the hawks away hopefully.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks pigeon kid! I'll do that. My mom use to feed the crows. Our neighborhood crows nested in the neighbors big trees surrounding our house. A hawk could not get near without the sky police running them out of town. All that has changed though. The West Nile Virus hit around here again last summer just as our crow population was on the rise. 

Feather


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Great.....let me how it goes.


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*Takes about a week for pigeons to figure out plastic GHOs*

Pigeons are smart enough to figure out that the plastic Great Horned Owls that they put up around the casinos and hotels are not alive. One of the funniest things I've ever seen was two pigeons roosting on top of a big plastic GHO (one on each of the owls ears) above the entance way of one of the big casinos up here. You might try getting one of those big plastic owls and put it into the loft so the pigeons grow accoustomed to it, then once they are no longer afraid of it move it up to a prominant place outside. While the pigeons won't be scared by it the hawks will, hawks are not nearly as smart as pigeons and will not go anywhere near a GHO real or plastic. Make sure you don't have any real GHOs around your area, wouldn't want the pigeons to snuggle up to a real one, even though GHOs usually only hunt after dark. We have to be very careful when we have a GHO and hawks in the bird repair center at the same time, if a hawk (or eagle for that matter) is in a pen directly next to a GHO and can see the GHO the hawk will wreck his feathers flying franticly trying to get away from the GHO even though they are sepaerated by wire.

NAB


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Z.Z.M.

This was a very educatonal thread. Why with the new species "The Fin Hawk", very interesting information on the Horned Owl's effect on the hawk, and of coarse the HAMberg. 

Tim, the only Ol HAM-berg that I know how to get ahold of is ALVIN, and thats not even a physical grip, it's usually by PMs or posting on his fantastic Super Powered Pigeon Story Episodes. 

Feather


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm convinced that nothing you do is going to deter hawks. We seldom see a hawk. Once in a while we do but it certainly isn't a daily occurance. Two days ago I stood at my back door and watched a hawk hit our loft 3 times in about 5 minutes. He had scared the birds in the first time but kept coming back even when you couldn't even tell there were any pigeons in the loft. Then yesterday morning, we had two birds come in from a race the day before. They had already flown over 200 miles on Sat. Then at 9:00 in the morning they showed up here only to be chased by a hawk for 1 1/2 hours before he finally left and they could land. Needless to say they were completely worn out. I watched the hawk chase one of them through the trees and he was inches from the pigeon. How he didn't get one is beyond me and how they had the stamina to avoid him is a miracle.


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I saw 30+*

Crows chasing a huge hawk right above my house yesterday, they chased him out of the area, I love seeing that..

We have a huge number of crow families living in my small town. They are always letting me know when there is a hawk around.

Andi


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2006)

I have to agree that there is no sure way to keep your pigeons safe from those f-in hawks short of keeping them in...they come and go so frequently here I could write a story every other day about the hits that happen on my flock .I can always tell when one has been near when I head out to the loft too as the pens look abondoned upon arrival without a peep from within the loft itself and even when the food is layed out before them it takes a bit of coaxing to get them dowm to eat  Its never a pleasant thing to see when your birds are coming down from flight only to burst back into the air in every direction while your trying to pin point what bird is the actual intruder  Only after your birds finally all come down and are accounted for can you laugh at the antics of yourself screaming ,running around like a fool waving your hands in the air clapping ,kicking and jumping up and down cursing at those air demons. Ughh I find myself so exhausted at the end of somedays just letting my birds out when all I really wanna do is enjoy watching my birds in flight


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*He's Baaaack!*

Well, Mr. F'in Hawk came visiting my loft again today. I was sitting in the living room when I heard my birds spook and when I looked out into the back yard, there's Mr. Hawk sitting on the fence not 5 feet from the loft lookin' in for some "take out." He sat there on the fence for several minutes, even paused to perch on one foot, eyeing my birds before he took off. Looked like a jevenille Sharpie or maybe a jevenille Coopers. Wish I could have gotten a picture of him, or better yet, introduced him to Mr. Red Ryder.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Well, Mr. F'in Hawk came visiting my loft again today. I was sitting in the living room when I heard my birds spook and when I looked out into the back yard, there's Mr. Hawk sitting on the fence not 5 feet from the loft lookin' in for some "take out." He sat there on the fence for several minutes, even paused to perch on one foot, eyeing my birds before he took off. Looked like a jevenille Sharpie or maybe a jevenille Coopers. Wish I could have gotten a picture of him, or better yet, introduced him to Mr. Red Ryder.


We've got one that visits daily also. That time of year. What's a Red Ryder??


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

If I even tried this time of year to allow my birds out, I am sure I would be swearing up a storm. The other day, a door was left open a few feet to allow sun and fresh air inside. Good ole Mr. Cooper used this oportunity to try to help himself to a bird or two. 

In the Commonwealth of Pennsyvania, when someone enters your home with the intent to do bodily harm, the law allows a person to take whatever action is necessary to avoid harm. 

A few of my rather large Ludo cockbirds took this opportunity to make an example out of poor Mr. Cooper. At least that is the story I am sticking with, and I want to point out I do not condone or encourage any of you to allow your more aggressive cockbirds to break any laws. 

But ever since, it has been rather quiet around here this week.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Cooper hawks*

What I can't figure out, is that if their eyesight is so keen why do they still keep coming down on the birds when they are out in my aviary. Don't they see the heavy gage fencing and chicken wire between them and my birds? Or is it just wishful thinking, and hunger that continues to drive them. My pigeons also don't seem to realize they are protected and make mad dash for the coop (you hear a loud thunder of wings clapping) long before I even see the hawk coming.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Treesa,

I think the Cooper's real intention is to flush them up into the air. They have to make their attack at an angle. The experienced pigeon on the other hand, knows that being out of his flight path, is a good place to be, and often will go onto the ground, under the loft, etc. The one's I have seen caught, by and large were on an upward trajectory, but before they have gained any speed. 

The birds are not safe behind wire, because those long Cooper legs will extend into the enclosure slashing with razor sharp claws. I had a hen that was within a few inches of the wire, and the Cooper filleted her like a piece of Salmon you see at the super market ! So, they are smart not to trust our enclosures for safety. I now attempt to have a thin layer of very thin nylon mesh netting to keep claws from going through the enclosure itself. The down side is I sometimes catch small sparrows and such. So, you have to check often to release them. The areas for perching inside the enclosure have been moved back perhaps six inches from the wire itself. This makes me feel a little more secure, until the wife screams there is a hawk on the wire !

At that point you go and look to insure the safety of special ones and hope we all got luckey again, and no one is injured.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Treesa,
> 
> *I think the Cooper's real intention is to flush them up into the air. They have to make their attack at an angle. The experienced pigeon on the other hand, knows that being out of his flight path, is a good place to be, and often will go onto the ground, under the loft, etc. The one's I have seen caught, by and large were on an upward trajectory, but before they have gained any speed. *
> 
> ...



Hi Warren,

Thank you for that explanantion. That makes sense. The cooper will at times just land on the aviary and sit there, and I immediately chase him away.

My aviary is wrapped quite thick in wire ( chicken, hardware cloth,overlapped by thick fencing) and the pigeons don't even perch anywhere near the wire, so they are quite safe.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Lovebirds said:


> What's a Red Ryder??


Hey Renee, Christmas day watch "A Christmas Story".

A Red Ryder is a carbine-action, 200 shot air rifle (BB gun).


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

This...

http://www.barbarascamera.com/sharpie.html

... is interesting. Scroll down to the last picture. It shows the size difference between female sharpies and males.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Hey Renee, Christmas day watch "A Christmas Story".
> 
> A Red Ryder is a carbine-action, 200 shot air rifle (BB gun).


Ok. BB gun........that's good enough....you must be kidding...........watch TV on CHRISTMAS DAY????  My whole family is coming from NC but not until about 4:00 PM so I don't even get to watch my COWBOYS play.... All I gotta say is they better be glad I love them......(the family that is.  )


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Renee, if you have never seen this show try to record it. It is usually on 24 hours straight on Christmas day - can't remember the channel but it is a classic and one of the best I've ever seen.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Renee, if you have never seen this show try to record it. It is usually on 24 hours straight on Christmas day - can't remember the channel but it is a classic and one of the best I've ever seen.


 I have watched this every year, since I don't know when. I laugh just as hard every year, maybe it's because I got a BB gun when I was nine one Christmas morning !!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

I believe they show it on TNT for 24 hours straight. It's a GREAT Christmas movie.....we watch it every year too!

Linda


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We watch it every year too. I just love little Randy. The scenes with him eating the mashed potatos and sitting in the cabinet telling his mom that "Daddy is going to kill Ralphie" just crack me up.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

The movie is an absolute classic.  
For us, 'A Christmas Story' sets off the holidays.
Sean knows every line in that movie, & has for many years.  

Gotta love the 'Electric Sex' scene. One of my favorite lines is, "Oh my god, I shot my eye out".  

It's a *must see* Renee. In addition to being on TV throughout the holiday season, it's available on video or DVD.  

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Don't Worry About The Cowboys, Renee ..*

My husband will be there glued to the TV for the entire pre, actual, and post game shows. He is a TOTAL die hard Cowboys fan .. then there's the Alabama (Crimson Tide .. Rolltide!) team too .. football season is a real hoot around here .. he gives a serious hoot, and I don't give a hoot at all .. I might watch the Denver Broncos once in a season, but that's about it for me. 

So, never fear .. your Cowboys are covered from here!  

Terry


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

> Pigeons are smart enough to figure out that the plastic Great Horned Owls that they put up around the casinos and hotels are not alive. One of the funniest things I've ever seen was two pigeons roosting on top of a big plastic GHO (one on each of the owls ears) above the entance way of one of the big casinos up here.


Yep, someone put out a plastic owl where my feral flock hangs out. Garye and the other pigeons roost near it, fly around it, and generally land on it like it's some kind of roosting spot. Then they spotted the plastic spikes put out on one of the store signs. Now Garye and the other pigeons take to using them as roosting spots. It was like they were thinking, "Gee, they put this stuff out for us. How nice! These things are better than roosting on the parking lot lights. We can see everything better now."

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Garye perched on one of those plastic spikes, just clinging to it. They somehow found a way to get on those things without harming themselves. And it's the only store sign they hang on to! They seem to like those spikes.

Yeah, I knew what f'in hawks were too. As a matter-of-fact, when I first read the title to the thread, I kinda laughed at how the hawks were described.  

I hate hawks too.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Garye, the 'overpass' pigeons hold on to the plastic spikes w/their feet then use
their wings to get over the top of them. There's not much clearance between the top of the spikes and the bottom of the concrete floor of the overpass. Once behind, I think they feel protected from the world at large.  

Today, they were all roosting on a rather large car dealership sign when they 
all took off to the sky. Pretty soon they were splitting up in groups and going in different directions and wouldn't return to the sign. Sure enough, on an iron structure atop a 4 or 5 story building's roof, maybe 50 feet away, a single redtail sat on the grid. It was twitching its' tail and sometimes its' wings in anticipation of a meal, almost the way a cat twitches its' tail. The pigeons stayed in flight for about 15-20 minutes, then a few returned to the sign, but not all. Then one circled around the hawk--not too close--almost as if checking out if it would respond. Nope, this hawk just kept sitting there. It would look over at the ferals from time to time but not move. Then more of the ferals would join in 'zooming' & 'teasing'the hawk. After a while, the hawk sighted something a couple of city blocks away and took off after it. I was pretty impressed w/the ferals today, but while it was all shaking down, I was
worried to death.

fp

Feather, you know they have Fin automobiles also, you know--the kind that
always break down


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Oh yes fp, now that you mentioned it, I believe I drove a couple of Fins.

Feather


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> Oh yes fp, now that you mentioned it, I believe I drove a couple of Fins.
> 
> Feather


Gosh, Feather, how'd you get your Fin car to start, mine's still sittin' there  

fp


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## jerseygeorge (Mar 18, 2006)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> I am so mad right now! If I lived way out in the country side, I'd be doin' me some hawk-huntin' right now!!!
> 
> You can't swing a dead cat in my neighborhood without hitting a mourning dove of feral pigeon, but my birds, out for an afternoon exercise before dinner just got chased by a hawk! Coopers or Sharp-Shinned.
> 
> ...


I have a hawk problem here as well. A hawk killed 6 ferals in 5 days in our yard and our neighbors yard. It is said they are endangered but you would never know it here in South Jersey. I am happy with my decision to keep my birds confined. If I didn't I'm sure most, or all of them would be dead by now.


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## Zaise (Jul 25, 2005)

pigeonkid1046 said:


> Be fortunate, my grandpa lost one roller per day every other day for 2 weeks. There is a hawk in the area (still) and was taking out his best rollers. I had one get eaten my a hawk, my beautiful bald head check, that performed surpisingly excellent. Another one in my neighbors yard, a dun, that performed, but not as well, and bless her, she is 70 and knows I have pigeons and got up from sitting on her porch and chased it away, it got free because of her. I know how you feel, were all the same way when this happens. They're just trying to live too. Save a pigeon......eat a squirrel. HAHA!


Ack! Don't let my mom hear you say that!!


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

pigeonkid1046 said:


> Save a pigeon......eat a squirrel. HAHA!


Zipper is VERY unhappy with you.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Zaise and bevslape,

When I read that post, I immediately thought of The Slapes and Victor, in addition to the many squirrels that I've made friends with at home and work. It's nature, still, hard to choose which of any should suffer. Unfortunately, animals do prey on one another as their survival, hopefully as humans, we wouldn't take a 'glib' approach to their needs and suffering.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Bev & Victor, 

Awww, Zipper is so cute! I like squirrels myself, they are so smart! They also are very amusing to watch and incredible acrobats! How old is Zipper now and is he very tame?


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, Bev, I envy you for having Zipper. 

I love squirrels myself, love when they come to me on my back porch for peanuts....over the years I've had one or two that will take them out of my hand, and we had one that would actually let us know that he was there and we darned well better hurry up with those peanuts! He would jump from the porch railing to the screen door and hook into the screen and just hang there all spread out, chattering, till he'd see one of us coming....then he'd climb down daintily and sit on the porch waiting for his peanuts. I miss him, he only came around for about a year, a couple of years ago. Something must have happened to him, because he knew us so well and seemed to trust us, so I'm sure if he was still okay, he'd be coming. 

Although I love it when they seem to trust us enough to take food from us, I try to avoid allowing that to happen. I always worry that the poor things will think ALL humans like them and will be friendly to them from our example. Which you know can be a fatal mistake for the them.

Linda


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi Bev & Victor,
> 
> Awww, Zipper is so cute! I like squirrels myself, they are so smart! They also are very amusing to watch and incredible acrobats! How old is Zipper now and is he very tame?


Zipper came into our lives it will be 2 years ago in May. My daughter-in-law called us very upset because some kids in her neighborhood were kicking and poking sticks at something. When she went to see what it was... it was a squirrel that had been hit by a car and was trying to crawl away. She took it away from the kids and put it in a pet carrier. It was so weak that it just lay there in the cage. She knew that we had recently rescued a pigeon (Tooter) so we were the only ones she could think of who could help. We knew absolutely nothing about squirrels but decide to try. I looked on the Internet and found a wonderful site for squirrel rehabbers. This person was great. She was one of the few that did not believe that just because a squirrel needed a great amount of medical help that it needed to be "put down".
Zipper cannot walk on her hind legs. She has very strong front legs now and drags her hind legs after her. If I were to make the mistake of setting her loose she would die before the hour was out because we have so many cats running loose in our neighborhood. If she managed to climb a tree she would not be able to jump from tree to tree like others and would die a slow death of starvation. So.....God sent her to me to take care of. 
At first I could not tell if Zipper were a boy ro a girl squirrel. She was raw almost to the bone on the underside of the belly and of course her genitialia were scraped to badly it was impossible to tell. After she had beeen with us for about a week she smelled to bad it was horriendus, so I desided to give her a bath. I took her to the tub and put her in warm water and gently wash her all over including her underside. . Every week I would give her a bath until she was pretty well healed...and then I found out it was a girl. By then my daughter Lisa had suggested Zipper as a name because of the way she could zip around the cage even without the use of her hind legs. She still get baths every couple of weeks. She has to be the cleanest squirrel in the world. 
She is pretty much a one person squirrel. She will let others reach into her cage to feed and pet her but I am the only person who can handle her to take her from her cage and bathe her. She loves to get old clothes to nest in. Every once in awhile I have to take her nest away (it gets stinky) and she has to start all over again. I try to do cage cleaning at the same time as bathing. She likes to sit in her cage watching the people come and go. We move her cage around to give her a change of scenery. When it is by a window she will let me know the mailman is coming by barking at him.
Zipper sort of became my rescue and all the pigeons are Victors. Aren't we blessed?


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## bevslape (Jul 22, 2005)

Oh...I forgot to answer how old she is. I don't know for sure but she looked to be at least a year old when we got her.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Bev, 

Thanks for all the info on Zipper. Boy, she has been through some awful times when you first found her. I knew she was a rescue and I knew she was unreleasable but I didn't realize the extent of her injuries and that she had no use of her back legs...poor baby. Seems like she's adjusted well to her handicap though 

She sounds like a very sweet animal however, and I know the "barking" sounds you're talking about, lol. I hear the squirrels here sometimes barking when there is a cat around. They will sit high up in a tree and bark at them from above

We have a lot of squirrels around this area, most of them are black but occasionally I'll see one that is brown or grey, similar to Zipper. Right now, they are all still busily gathering and storing foods for the cold winter approaching. Luckily for them this year, it's been a very mild & no snow so far, therefore they are benefitting from all the extra time they have to gather up what they can


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Thanks, Bev, for posting Zipper's story! I don't think I ever heard the WHOLE story!

While reading, I kept picturing what some people have done for their dog or cat who can't use their back legs. They built a little outfit with wheels. I assume that Zipper stays pretty confined, but sounds very content!

How lucky you were to find a rehabber! What a lucky squirrel!

Love and hugs to Zipper and to you all!


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

i just had a hawk attack today! but none of them got hurt. i made a thread about it here entitled " do i have a story for you..."


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, F'in-the-Hawk came to visit again this afternoon. Came down and perched on the fench outside the loft for a bit. Scared the crap out of my birds. I wish he'd just go somewhere else!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We had a sparrow hawk sitting on top of one of the aviaries yesterday morning but he was pretty nervous and it didn't take much to scare him off.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Zipper the squirrel*

Bev,

Thanks for the story about Zipper. She is really a beauty. 

Larry


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, F'in the Hawk came visiting my birds again today.  He did his typical come down and perch on the fench a few feet from the loft and scare the crap out of my birds. I saw him sit there while I was packing a rig in my living room. Got up and headed for the window and he split. Watched for a bit and saw him fly by, but he didn't stop that time. I still wish he'd go somewhere else. I was thinking of letting my fliers out this morning, but didn't since it was overcase and drizzly.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Well, F'in the Hawk came visiting my birds again today.  He did his typical come down and perch on the fench a few feet from the loft and scare the crap out of my birds. I saw him sit there while I was packing a rig in my living room. Got up and headed for the window and he split. Watched for a bit and saw him fly by, but he didn't stop that time. I still wish he'd go somewhere else. I was thinking of letting my fliers out this morning, but didn't since it was overcase and drizzly.


It's aggravating having birds to rehab because of their quick "getaway" into the coop upon seeing the hawk. Some have smacked into each other in their quick haste to escape, and I have had 3 wing injuries because of it. They don't seem to realize there is heavy wire fencing between them and the hawk.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Yesterday...when I was outside changing the water in the lofts, I looked to the side as something large was moving in the sky. My first thought was it was a Blue Haring, (the white ones like to visit the pond). As I watched it, I saw that the long train sticking out of the back was not long legs, but a tail with a black stripe in the end. One lonely crow took off after it, and as he chased it back and forth across the sky, I saw that it was a hawk or falcon. It had huge wide wings. When I came inside to look in my bird book, the closest that I could get, was a Gryfalcon. It is an artic bird. Is this possible? I have never seen this bird before, not in my sky.

Feather


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Wow Feather*

if it is? he sure is out of his area a little... 

I witnessed yesterday seagulls and crows chasing and nipping at a huge hawk in the area, I have never seen seagulls chase them. There seem to be a large number of hawks in southern California lately, they must be doing well with their offspring and getting their food supply...they best just keep flying over my area. 

Andi


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

The huge Gry HAWK/FALCON was back today. I am starting to feel sorry for him. Sunday...a crow kept diving at him. Today, a smaller falcon, (possibly a Peregrine) was diving at him. This is a first for me. Can anyone explain this behavior. 

Do these birds know that he is from out of town?

Could the smaller one be the male/female mate?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sounds like your new bird in town, Feather, is encroaching in territory that has already been claimed!

I would hope he would be able to return to his own home, if he has one!

Keep us posted...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Sorry, but we do NOT advise shooting ANY BIRD on this site EVER!!   

And, I disagree with you about the pellet not doing any damage! Some of the threads posted here indicate otherwise!  

And, it's ILLEGAL to shoot protected species!! 

There may be other members along to comment...*


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

SFP,

I certainly know how you feel. Last night when I was tucking my birds away, a young bird that I had not even missed came swooping down. He was probably chased away by two hawks earlier in the afternoon. He had something gray all over his head. I thought WHAT IS THAT, the hawks downfeathers. When I picked him up it looked like cob webs. He probably stashed himself somewhere until danger was gone.

We can't shoot the creatures for doing what God has designed them to do. They have young that they have to feed. You can scare them off with your voice, you don't need a gun. We just have to learn their ways and be on guard all of the time. I have not lost a pigeon for several years, and my birds fly everyday.

My birds are on lock down now, though. They won't get to fly until that big Gryfalcon ( and that diving maniac that was with it) goes away.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you, Mr Spueaks.
As much as I abhor predatory behavior of any kind, [I really,really do abhor it] birds of prey are innocents in that what they do is without malace intent. They are just trying to survive . Every creature values it's own life and is deserving of thoughtful concideration and respect.
Charis


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pete, thanks for the deletion.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Pete, thanks for the deletion.


 You're quite welcome, Maggie


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

This is way OT - but, Pete, your avatar is wonderful.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> This is way OT - but, Pete, your avatar is wonderful.


I agree, Maggie...BEAUTIFUL Avatar, Pete!

I am conflicted. On the one hand I understand why the post was deleted. On the other, we all know that there are many people who see nothing wrong with hunting and shooting. Letting them know OUR viewpoint may be helpful. Who knows, we may even "mellow" them or at least give them something to think about. 

Usually, though, changing a long held belief, could take a major event (finding a shot bird and nursing back to health??? Has happened!). Unfortunately, many kids have been brought up to see nothing wrong with hunting for sport or taking pot shots at birds. Yet, they are not bad kids, they just don't know any differently. THESE are the ones who may be most likely to do a complete turnaround.

I admit that my above post words were very strong. Thankfully, Feather helped counterbalance with her comments. 

When I see remarks like that, I see red and don't always take a more diplomatic route! 

On the other hand, I can see a justification in taking a life for survival purposes. Even then, however, one can thank the creator for providing the food and thank the animal "spirit" for giving its life. Many Native Americans and Australian Aboriginines had the right atttitude.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Thank you Maggie & Shi,
Here's the full size pic so you can use it as you'd like.








I understand where you're coming from Shi, BUT, as a moderator I have to go by the law of the land and not my heart. 

As stated in the Rules of Conduct...
" Topics relating to the advocacy of hunting, killing, eating, torturing or any inhumane treatment of pigeons and/or any animal, will not be tolerated on this website. If you hold an opinion about your 'right' to 'lethal culling' of unwanted pigeons and/or any animal, please keep it to yourself."


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, FinHawk came visiting again today. Scared the crap out of my birds while they were eating breakfast. Can't he figure out that their is heavy wire between him and them? ... and the takeout window is closed!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Well, FinHawk came visiting again today. Scared the crap out of my birds while they were eating breakfast. Can't he figure out that their is heavy wire between him and them? ... and the takeout window is closed!



Unfortunately, HOPE springs eternal! Mr. Hawk proabably thinks, "maybe THIS time I can get one of those little succulents!" 

No problem, Pete...I understand...thanks for the removal... 
AND, thanks for the larger Avatar picture!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Friday morning I was exiting the interstate to start my school bus route which is my neighborhood. As I was slowing to stop at the intersection, I saw a very large bird of prey to my right. There was no one behind me, so I watched it's flight. It was large, had a dark body (brown?) and the head was white. It might have been an eagle. It was souring with smooth grace. I then looked to my left and noticed the huge flock of pigeons that live in the area were no where to be seen. They must have been on hide out mode laying low somewhere.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Well, seems a little early this year, but F'in Hawk came visiting agian today.

I thought my birds got spooked because I dropped something in the garage that made a loud noise when I heard them scatter up off of the floor where they were eating dinner to get to their perches, but when I went to look, there was Mr. Hawk sitting on the fence a few feet from their loft.

I haven't let my birds out in forever because I got tired of seeing them chased by hawks. So, they just get to hang out in the loft.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Must be frustrating to have to keep them penned up, but better that risking them to Mr Hawk! Do your birds seem restless?

A local Cooper's hawk likes to hang out in a fir tree near my flight pen, so I wove some plastic strips through the fencing on that side so it looks more solid, both to the resident pigeons and to the raptor. Sure hope your hawk keeps on moving on!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Well, seems a little early this year, but F'in Hawk came visiting agian today.


"My" hawk has been back for about two weeks now. She absolutely terrifies all the birds .. she can't get to them, but she surely does scare them just by her presence.

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Well, seems a little early this year, but F'in Hawk came visiting agian today.
> 
> I thought my birds got spooked because I dropped something in the garage that made a loud noise when I heard them scatter up off of the floor where they were eating dinner to get to their perches, but when I went to look, there was Mr. Hawk sitting on the fence a few feet from their loft.
> 
> I haven't let my birds out in forever because I got tired of seeing them chased by hawks. So, they just get to hang out in the loft.


I must say, ZZM, F'in is certainly a determined one! I can see him thinking, "So near, yet so far! They have got to fly sometime...patience, that is the key!" 

Any signs of his "pesky' friends to chase him?

SENDING SAFE THOUGHTS TO ALL PIGEONS!

Shi


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2007)

my f'in hawk never leaves and is around all year long here ,actually its two hawks, mr and mrs f'in but they take turns freaking out the lofts daily around breakfast time mostly and then thru out the day ..one minute the fly pens are full of life ,the next minute it looks like a ghost town with a few feathers floating thru the air


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

I have had them hit the fly pen and my birds freak out and I have had some of my birds break there neck in their haste to get away. GEORGE


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Yes, I've noticed the hawks have returned to my area. I went to visit the pigeons and they were all atop the parking lot lights like stones and then from the corner of my eye, I saw a lone big dark shape atop a parking lot light all by its lonesome - a hawk. I thought, 'Ooooooh that explains why everyone is so quiet and still.'

The other day while visiting the pigeons, they came down to greet me in the morning like they usually do. Then a saw a flurry of feathers and everyone was gone except for one pigeon. She was on her back, struggled to right herself back up and there was the hawk ready to attack her again. I shooed the hawk away and went after the pigeon. Boy could she run! But she could not fly. She shot under my car, I went to grab her and she shot out the other side, so I ran to the other side and she slipped back under my car. Finally I had to move my car slowly to get it away from her. I chased her down the parking lot and grabbed her, put her in my car, wiped the blood off her beak and drove back home, rushed inside and put her in a box and then I took off for work. I was two minutes late - I can't believe it! I still made good time in getting to work.

Anyways, she's here with me. She's been attacked at the wing, can't fly, the bleeding on the beak has stopped, but she seems ok for now. I made her a minature box condo with a window. Trying to keep this one because she'll have no chance outside on her own without being able to fly. Again, no vets will treat her without putting her to sleep. I'm going to try and keep her. I'm getting one of those small portable tents for kids so she can get exercise in the daytime and then she sleeps and eats in her box condo.

She eats well and drinks well. Poops normal, I guess. Seems content to look outside her box condo window at the scenery outside. Loves that window that I made for her in her condo. She has a separate compartment for her bedroom. Makes it easier to clean the condo too because of the way I designed it.

Yep, the hawks are back - especially in the mornings when there's hardly any people around. They are a pain.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Fin came visiting again yesterday afternoon. He came down on the ground this time right outside the wire of the loft and really scared my birds. I went out to scare him away and he barely moved, only went a few feet back up to the fence and just perched there and looked at me. Finally he flew to a tree several yards away. He must be really hungry or really bad at catching food.


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## zoo keeper (Oct 3, 2004)

I have not had a hawk here in 2 years. I guess this winter is my unlucky winter. Yesterday I had a hawk sitting in the tree eye-balling my birds. As he was eye-balling my birds crows were dive bombing the hawk. The crows crazy behavior is what actually caught my attention then I noticed the hawk. Darn Hawks


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

yeah out here in cali there are alot of hawks... I lost alot of good birds to those darn things... =(


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

*Fin makes his Christmas visit*

Well, seems every Christmas, my birds get visited by a hawk. Its like a tradition. I start looking for them around Thanksgiving time and not to fail, when I came back from the grocery store this morning, there was Fin The Hawk sitting in a neighbor's tree. He couldn't see my loft from there, but I suppose he could hear my birds. Anyway, my fliers have been on lock-down for over a year now. I suppose I'll never let them out again. I have no clue whether or not its the same Sharpie that comes visiting every year, but one (or more ??) always seem so show up around this time of year. Anyway, suppose "Fin the Hawk" sounds confusing too as somewhere along the line my original title for this thread, "F'in Hawks", got edited to "Darn Hawks" to be more PC.  That's okay though.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

*Hawk Control*

Some of the methods I have used to get the hawks to move on to another location include: 
1. Bottle Rockets. I fire them in the general direction of the hawk. (In 20 years I have never hit a bird!) You have to use the kind of bottle rockets that whistle and explode. My birds are kinda use to them and begin to trap immediately when they start hearing the whistles and bangs.
2. Plastic owls: you have to move them to different locations or the hawks also seem to get use to them.
3. Leg Traps (Modified): I have a fence line running alongside my loft and the blasted hawks like to sit on the fence post and "Keep Watch" on the flight pen. I modified a leg trap so it would not close all the way, and put it on the fence posts. When the bird lands, it triggers the trap and the trap "Pops" up as it closes and chases the bird away.
4. Conservation Officer: I had a hawk actually get into one of my pens and it killed several very expensive birds. I have no idea how it got in and I knew I was not going in to catch it. I called the conservation officer and he came out, threw a bag over the bird and hauled him away. I have no idea where he released it, but I do believe it was scared enough not to come back.
5. Wire stringers: Like some of the other people have mentioned, I also had them on my flight pens, reaching in and killing birds. I moved all the perches back from the wire and hung long pieces of thin wire along the outside of my cage from the roof. The roof overhangs the wire about six inches, so the hawk would have to go through the long strand of wire to get to the cage wire. Seems to deter the other birds also.

I am disabled and can not work, so when ever my birds are out, I am out with them. I keep a dozen bottle rockets with-in easy reach. None of the methods are perfect, but they have definitely cut down on the hawk encounters.

Please note: If you get caught killing or harming any sort of bird of prey, you could be fined and actually have to serve jail time. Talk to your conservation officers, or wildlife officers, about what you can and can not do legally.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks for the tip UncleBuck. I agree with all except the leg traps (modified). I have several wild birds that like to perch on our fence so I probably can't use that idea.

My hawks are rather swift. I don't know whether I can have time to get any bottled rockets and fire it. My neighbors probably would not appreciate it too. What exactly is bottled rockets?


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

The bottle rocket is a type of fireworks. It looks like a firecracker on a stick. You light the fuse and it launches, flies away and blows up. I guess they get their name from the fact that people used to put them in bottles, light the fuse and then run. I did forget to mention, I launch them from my hand, so you must wear a glove or risk being burnt.
The leg trap has to be modified in such a way that it will not close all the way. It allows the bird to get away, but scare the heck out of it.


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