# Bronze



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Well I thought it might be good to talk about the BRONZE factor as we have discussed Ember and red. Coppertone the bird that was posted on another tread may have been a bronze as Frank pointed out so here goes. There 8 different BRONZES,#1 Kite, #2 Modena Bronze,#3Archangle Bronze,#4 Bander Bronze,#5 Lebanon Bronze,#6Tippler Bronze,#7Roller Bronze,#8Toy Stencil Bronze. All these bronzes have different effects on the color of the birds in the pigeon family,that is the reason for all the different names.The first one that I would like to talk about is TIPPLER BRONZE www.loftone.net in the second colunm hit the link to bronze tippler and you will see the Bronze Tippler.TipplerBronze changes the blue to a bronze.* GEORGE ps IF you look in the first colunm look for Simon & Simon loft you will see some of my birds no bronzes there.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

I have to agree that Coppertone looked definaitely tippler bronze to me , had that show tippler shape and eye too him too


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

george simon said:


> *
> Well I thought it might be good to talk about the BRONZE factor as we have discussed Ember and red.
> 
> Coppertone the bird that was posted on another tread may have been a bronze as Frank pointed out *


*

For those who are interested, so you don't have to go back & forth to see who George is referring to, here's a picture of Coppertone.
















*


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Nice color*

I have a roller that is a bronze mottle of some sort and I'll post a picture of him soon as he is somewhat of a mystery bird to me. I'm sure that he has tippler blood as many rollers do. I mated him to a yellow check hen because I wanted to dilute the bronze to see what it would look like.

Their first chicks are a blue check pied and what appears to be an ash yellow grizzle. I was surprised by this but that's what makes this fun. He has alot of black flecks so it is easy to see that he carries blue and the fact that he is split for dilute was a pleasant surprise. Taking over my son's birds, I kept what I felt was interesting and I will have to learn through breeding what they all are as he kept no records.

The old male seems to be ash red and bronze, split for blue and dilute. 

I probably should have posted all this in a new thread. Didn't mean to take over this one. The tipplers in the photos are certainly nice and showy birds and are nothing like the tipplers that I ever had as mine were the highflier types and not for show. These birds look very much like some of the show tumblers that I remember and the bronze makes me think of brander. Does anyone know if this bronze is tippler or brander? I don't remember the black flights in old tippler bronze but I've certainly forgotten plenty over the years.

Bill


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I need to take new pictures but here is my boy, Buck. You probly already saw him but here ya go 

Can't wait for his wings to grow back so I can see what he is supposed to look like, I wish his previous owners would have just left em alone.










Hey is coppertone yours? Very pretty bird


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yup, I remember this one*



Kimberly_CA said:


> I need to take new pictures but here is my boy, Buck. You probly already saw him but here ya go
> 
> Can't wait for his wings to grow back so I can see what he is supposed to look like, I wish his previous owners would have just left em alone.
> 
> ...


We decided that he is kite or at least some type of bronze and some type of muffed tumbler.

His wings were clipped awfully short. If it were my bird, I'd start pulling those cut feathers so they would grow back sooner but being this short, you have to be careful and would be advisable to seek the help of someone who has done this sort of thing before. Do you know any old pigeon breeders or bird keepers?

Bill


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I notice in the Tippler bronze, it is frequently mixed with black. Is this a feature of this particular gene so that it darkens the blue that shows? It is, IMO, one of the most striking bronzes, but then I love those deep red gold birds.
Margaret


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Margaret*

I'm not sure if we're seeing tippler bronze or brander bronze in today's show tipplers. The color looks exactly the same as some show tumblers from many years ago and it is indeed enhanced by the deep black tips with great bronze elsewhere.

I thought that tippler bronze was more of what I have in my rollers as it is somewhat unlikely that I actually have roller bronze, which is an older known color. Mine have all been grizzle, another tippler trait (flying, not show).

Again, I will post pics of these as soon as I get my computer troubles sorted out.

Bill


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

From the PIGEON BREEDER'S NOTEBOOK by QUINN. I will quote from the book."The bronze of Tipplers is suppressed, but not masked by spread.Many such black pigeons will show a high degree of bronzing.It is rather curious that the breeds of Roller and Tipplers,which have a common starting point,should have such a different expression of bronze. The Rollers imported into this country prior to 1930 show no traces of Tippler bronze or Tippler light print grizzle,but the later imports are over ninty percent of this phenotype. The question,What breeding practice would account for such massive infusion of Tippler associated genes into Rollers in such a short span of time?is at present unanswerable." ...GEORGE


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi George*

Yeah, I just read that very thing last night and it seems to enforce what I'm saying (asking?) about tippler and brander bronze.

Bill


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