# Canker in young pigeon



## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Hello everybody! Last year (my first year taking care of pigeons) there was a lot of canker in the loft. I was able to save only the birds that had in in the navel. Any bird with canker in the throat, to spite all my efforts, ended up dying.

This year I have only had one bird with canker. When I noticed it, there were yellow cheesy deposits in the mouth and a lump where he would swallow. He is approx 4 weeks old. He couldn't eat anything. I took him in the house and had no choice but to gently put a QTip down his throat. There was a little blood but not much. I began tube feeding him Kaytee formula and giving him a half of pill of metronidazolum so that would be 30 mg. It has been 5 days now. I don't feel the lump anymore and I was able to tease off the canker on this tongue with a QTip. He is now eating on his own.

The question is, how long before I put him back in the loft with the other birds? I don't know if he still is carrying it and I don't want to infect my other birds.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Did you get any instructions on the tablets as far as how long to treat? 

I would wait till after full course of treatment.

If he got it from parents, it would be good idea to do preventive treatment on them before breeding season.

Here is a link about canker: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/canker.htm *


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Skyeking said:


> *Did you get any instructions on the tablets as far as how long to treat?
> 
> I would wait till after full course of treatment.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that link. That is exactly what his mouth looked like before treatment. I will keep him out of the loft for 9 more days and continue treating him in order to avoid contamination. He did get it from his parents as this was their second hatch, the first hatch was without incident. The nest mate is doing fine, I check him every day. The father is still feeding him so I have to continue to watch for signs of sickness.

On the bottle it states to treat for 2 to 3 days. I most likely should go the fourteen.

Again, thank you!


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Lainey1129 said:


> Hello everybody! Last year (my first year taking care of pigeons) there was a lot of canker in the loft. I was able to save only the birds that had in in the navel. Any bird with canker in the throat, to spite all my efforts, ended up dying.
> 
> This year I have only had one bird with canker. When I noticed it, there were yellow cheesy deposits in the mouth and a lump where he would swallow. He is approx 4 weeks old. He couldn't eat anything. I took him in the house and had no choice but to gently put a QTip down his throat. There was a little blood but not much. I began tube feeding him Kaytee formula and giving him a half of pill of metronidazolum so that would be 30 mg. It has been 5 days now. I don't feel the lump anymore and I was able to tease off the canker on this tongue with a QTip. He is now eating on his own.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear what's happening in your loft. Please don't try to remove canker growths from the throat. This cause extreme pain and bleeding in pigeons and the cut can get infected.
When you treat for canker you TREAT ALL THE BIRDS AT THE SAME TIME. Please treat all your birds for canker asap. You might wanna use two drugs if the canker keeps coming back in your loft. You can give metro in morning and spartrix in evening.
If the canker is coming back in your loft for over an year please run metronidazole course for 10-14 days. Also run canker prevention course with ronidazole for five days after two weeks and then two months. Its best drug for flock treatment. Please keep rotating the meds for prevention and when you run prevention course treat all birds at same time. Keep your loft super dry. Remove beddings etc from the loft and scrape daily. Bleach your waterers daily. Don't leave water in the loft overnight as triches multiply in water.
Your birds need acv,probiotics and multivitamins regularly.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree. If the youngster has canker then he got it from parents. I would treat parents and sibling individually, then treat the flock in the water. Of course, in order to do that, you would need to remove the parents and sibling from the loft. Or you can just try treating the whole loft in the water. Treat for 10 days in flock. The youngster needs to be treated for 10 days, then if no signs of canker you can stop. If still signs of canker, then you may have to treat for 14 days. You should always keep a dry loft and change bedding, but that isn't how they get canker. Don't think it necessary to treat 2 months later. If your flock gets canker every year, is it in the springtime? If so, then you can flock treat in the spring at change of weather. This is often when they get it. Stress causes it, and change of season sometimes brings it on.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Changing bedding,infact very less to little bedding and nesting materials should be used when birds have canker. Canker cause pigeons to drink more and more water,so they're gonna excrete water and water and water, making the beddings/nesting materials damp and wet. Damp/wet beddings is what triches,insects,flies,bacteria and whole lot of stuff would need to breed,mutiply and thrive. What if when birds fly and some infected bedding material fly and lands in water.....we'll have water infected with protozoa and bacteria. That's bad for birds.
Wet beddings/nestings also cause pigeon's feet to stay wet and can lead to fungal infections. 

Changing water and removing it at night gives better results while treating for canker as triches mutiple and transmitt via water.


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> I agree. If the youngster has canker then he got it from parents. I would treat parents and sibling individually, then treat the flock in the water. Of course, in order to do that, you would need to remove the parents and sibling from the loft. Or you can just try treating the whole loft in the water. Treat for 10 days in flock. The youngster needs to be treated for 10 days, then if no signs of canker you can stop. If still signs of canker, then you may have to treat for 14 days. You should always keep a dry loft and change bedding, but that isn't how they get canker. Don't think it necessary to treat 2 months later. If your flock gets canker every year, is it in the springtime? If so, then you can flock treat in the spring at change of weather. This is often when they get it. Stress causes it, and change of season sometimes brings it on.


Thanks Jay. The problem is last year my father was caring for the lofts and he was aging and not able to do so properly. When I noticed this, I took over the lofts for him. By the time I intervened, many babies had canker and were being treated by me. One bird even had surgery but died. I scrape the lofts on a daily basis and clean out each nest box, take out the bedding and empty the bowl, and shake the pine needles out (every other day) and then replace it. I also keep a careful eye on every baby from the time it is born, that is why I believe I caught this canker early enough to treat successfully. 

Here is my problem, many mothers and fathers are still feeding their young babies. If I treat the loft, they will be giving the healthy youngsters the medication. The parents that gave this youngster the canker are being treated individually even though I have replaced their new eggs with wooden ones. I figured the father (the only one still feeding the second youngster) will pass the medicine to the nest mate. 

The rest of my flock is in perfect condition (I have around 52 youngsters). They are very healthy and some of the most beautiful pigeons I have ever seen. My dad wanted to race this final year which is why I allowed them to breed. He recently took very ill and is unable to even go outside to see them anymore. Now I am left with a loft full of babies and will have to get rid of many of them. I just don't know how because all my dads friends are up there in age.

Do you still think I should treat the flock? If so, I will start it right away. Will it hurt the youngsters natural immunity?


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Changing bedding,infact very less to little bedding and nesting materials should be used when birds have canker. Canker cause pigeons to drink more and more water,so they're gonna excrete water and water and water, making the beddings/nesting materials damp and wet. Damp/wet beddings is what triches,insects,flies,bacteria and whole lot of stuff would need to breed,mutiply and thrive. What if when birds fly and some infected bedding material fly and lands in water.....we'll have water infected with protozoa and bacteria. That's bad for birds.
> Wet beddings/nestings also cause pigeon's feet to stay wet and can lead to fungal infections.
> 
> Changing water and removing it at night gives better results while treating for canker as triches mutiple and transmitt via water.


Thanks. I do everything I can with the birds nesting materials. The water is in gallon jugs that comes down as the birds drink. At night I do take it out and soak it in disinfectant until I rinse it in the morning and refill. The birds are also getting ACV 3X a week, vitamins 2X a week, and plain water the other two. Sometimes I will switch it up and give garlic or probiotics.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Even if there's only one bird in the loft showing canker build up in the throat and that bird has shared water source in the loft with other birds then ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO TREAT THE ENTIRE FLOCK.
Yes you're doing it right. Replace all the eggs with fakes,and if you can afford to wait for couple of days then wait till the young wean. Those who has visible canker must be isolated,kept under vigil and treated ASAP! I would suggest to remove affected and treat the entire flock as soon as you can.

Birds which are breeding definitely need a prevention course again after 2 weeks and then again after 2 months if using ronidazole because breeding puts huge stress on parent birds. Stress is all that canker needs to take over the body. Google correct prevention course with ronidazole for breeders. In your case its all the way necessary to run timely prevention courses because your birds are being affected by canker for over long period.

A healthy bird can battle trichomonads/triches NOT CANKER. Even if one bird has canker then your healthy looking birds are battling with extra triches they are picking up from infected water. A healthy bird is more good at acting fine for longer than a sick bird who goes down and catch your attention soon whereas a healthy bird could go unnoticed until things get complicated and show different symptoms


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Even if there's only one bird in the loft showing canker build up in the throat and that bird has shared water source in the loft with other birds then ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO TREAT THE ENTIRE FLOCK.
> Yes you're doing it right. Replace all the eggs with fakes,and if you can afford to wait for couple of days then wait till the young wean. Those who has visible canker must be isolated,kept under vigil and treated ASAP! I would suggest to remove affected and treat the entire flock as soon as you can.
> 
> Birds which are breeding definitely need a prevention course again after 2 weeks and then again after 2 months if using ronidazole because breeding puts huge stress on parent birds. Stress is all that canker needs to take over the body. Google correct prevention course with ronidazole for breeders. In your case its all the way necessary to run timely prevention courses because your birds are being affected by canker for over long period.
> ...


Thank you for your reply. The infected bird never left the nest box when I noticed it. The father that was still feeding him was inspected and I found no canker in his mouth or throat. I still began treatment on him as there is one youngster left that he still feeds (no symptoms). Breeding is now over for my birds and only the males with youngsters they feed have been left with the females. As soon as the last youngster is out of the nest box, I will treat the entire loft. All females are on wooden eggs. I truly appreciate your help!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Of course it is better for the babies immunity if you don't have to treat the loft, but it would be better to treat than not to. It is a bit much to treat again and again so soon though.

Canker often doesn't show in the throat, especially with the adults. If your young one has canker, then he is getting it from his parents. Their trichomonad level has gone up, and they are passing on too many to the young, so they do need treatment. They will also pass it on to the loft.


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Of course it is better for the babies immunity if you don't have to treat the loft, but it would be better to treat than not to. It is a bit much to treat again and again so soon though.
> 
> Canker often doesn't show in the throat, especially with the adults. If your young one has canker, then he is getting it from his parents. Their trichomonad level has gone up, and they are passing on too many to the young, so they do need treatment. They will also pass it on to the loft.


Thanks , starting tomorrow I will add the medication to the water. I'm glad this only occurred in one loft. I know medication added to the water isn't the best but with the heat we have been having the loft is going through enough water. I have Barimax which is supposed to be very good for canker.

I don't know what I would do without all of you people, honestly.


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Ooops, I meant Ronidazole. I started treatment today.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lainey1129 said:


> Hello everybody! Last year (my first year taking care of pigeons) there was a lot of canker in the loft. I was able to save only the birds that had in in the navel. Any bird with canker in the throat, to spite all my efforts, ended up dying.
> 
> This year I have only had one bird with canker. When I noticed it, there were yellow cheesy deposits in the mouth and a lump where he would swallow. He is approx 4 weeks old. He couldn't eat anything. I took him in the house and had no choice but to gently put a QTip down his throat. There was a little blood but not much. I began tube feeding him Kaytee formula and giving him a half of pill of metronidazolum so that would be 30 mg. It has been 5 days now. I don't feel the lump anymore and I was able to tease off the canker on this tongue with a QTip. He is now eating on his own.
> 
> ...


most pigeons carry trich, most common is the kind that shows in the oral cavaties. there are strains that can cause more severe disease in the liver but it is not as common as other strains of canker. the reason it showed in the young is because they are just building immune systems and could not keep the numbers in check ,so it showed itself in that bird. stress is a factor as well ,as in a crowded lofts things can be stressful and close quarters. allot of keepers automatically treat for canker before breeding, I think the birds should be built up immune wise so there is no need for medication, if it shows then treat that bird. rethinking if you should be breeding also.. don't overcrowd the birds and if canker is present and you don't have to breed then don't..use fake eggs.


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## Lainey1129 (May 20, 2013)

Thanks for your advice. I would like to say that the canker was already present last year in the lofts when I took them over, so was paratyphoid. My dad was too old to properly care for the lofts and when I noticed that, I took over.

They were treated for paratyphoid right away and thats when I began noticing babies with canker. Tried to save them but only the ones with canker in naval made it through. I did a complete overhaul of the lofts and they have now become mine. This one case of canker was all that was present this year. The baby is fine, the father was treated, and now the loft is under treatment.

I never thought I could get attached to pigeons. I truly enjoy them and can spend hours watching them and laughing at the different personalities.

I'm done with breeding and now I will just allow them to live the rest of their lives happy and healthy.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

(Not to you Lainey-I see a discussion in the making)

If I'm not mistaken,Yes I know of that case your dad brought up here on PT of a squab with nasal and eye discharge without any growth in throat and that might very well be symptoms of *wet canker *. 
Salmonella,e.coli,trichomanads,candida etc all are present in birds in small numbers all the time. And healthy pigeons live with them and the younsters build immunities by encountering SMALL AMOUNTS of these pathogens,fed by parents. If a younster is fed more of them than it can handle,he will not develop immunities but go down and bring others down with him when he grows up and drinks water from communal bowls.
Triches are ever present in pigeons and healthy pigeons live in equilibrium with them until they face stress or drink triches infected water. When they drink triches infected water the number of triches in their bodies gotta increase at some point and equilibrium WILL BE BROKEN. Must treat/run timely prevention courses. So you're talking a very good step for betterment of your pigeons by treating them for canker. If you dont wanna run 5-day ronidazole course later then no problem just give them spartrix for two days. Please read more about canker on net,I'm so concerned because I know what canker can to do birds slowly. Thanks


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I've never found the 2 day course of spartrix to work as a cure. Sometimes rondiazole works and sometimes not. For the strain of trich here in the Pacific Northwest, metronidazole works better. Trichinomis strains vary from region to region. Occasionally though, I will need to use the two canker medications at the same time. The spartrix can be made into a paste and gently brushed onto the yellow lesions, once a day.
I have found internal canker, which cannot be seen in the throat, more common here, in adult pigeons.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yep,most trichomonad strains are sensitive to metronidazole. It best treatment for canker.
5 days ronidazole and/or 2 days spartrix course works good for prevention. Better to run prevention course by rotating the meds.


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