# Broken Hearted Me



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This has been the Spring that wasn't. We had snow mixed with rain well into April. For the first time since it was built, mice moved into the chicken coop. I have been diligent about live trapping and holding until the weather is semi OK and I have more than one to relocate. In many ways, mice remind me of Pigeons. They are prolific, social and the females are amazing moms. They are also very adorable.
Early last week, I noticed insulation on the floor of the chicken coop when I opened it up in the morning. There were tufts like cotton candy and two of my lovely hens, Plum and Elisa were eating it. I managed to get some out of one hen's mouth and picked up all I could see. The next morning we went through it all over again. Every night, before I turn off the light in the chicken coop, I pick each hen up, give her a little kiss and check her crop for food. Last Tuesday night, the two chickens that had eaten the insulation looked a little tired and both had odd feeling lumps in their crop. Come morning, the lumps remained and I noticed neither hen had pooped during the night.
I called the only vet in the area that is Avian only. My feeling was that each hen needed surgery. I would have preferred my friend Deb but her schedule kept her at the Wild Life Care center until Friday. I dropped Plum and Elisa at the clinic and shortly after received a call to come and get them. The vet told me that chickens eat all sorts of weird stuff and these girls would be JUST FINE. She also said they were too fat and if I wasn't careful they would get maggots...the awful new kind that would burrow into their skin. Both had an infection and should be on clavamox...not baytril as it had been banned.Her comments seemed pretty nutty to me. Still, I left feeling relieved that they would pass the insulation.
I have had issues with this vet in the past. Two times she did a shell gland removal on hens and both laid eggs within a week after. When questioned, she said they must have had two shell glands. The surgeries were several years apart and when she told me that the second time, I suspect she had forgotten she had offered the same excuse the first time. As a result I have avoided her. I would have been happy to have avoided her this time as well had there been an option.
With clavamox, Plum and Elisa perked up. Elisa's crop just didn't empty and by Saturday I was very worried. Deb came over early Sunday morning and I told her the whole story and she agreed that Elisa needed surgery. Unfortunately, she couldn't do the surgery until Tuesday morning. 
Elisa didn't survive the surgery and as it turned out, nothing could have been done to save her. She was crammed, packed full of insulation...crop...gizzard...intestines. The insulation had created ulcers in her crop. The poor thing must have been miserable. Obviously she ate more than I thought. I am watching Plum very closely and it is possible the remaining two chickens ate some too. I could loose them all.
I have a handyman coming next week to remove the insulation and replace the inside walls. Until then, I will be checking before light for any insulation that needs to be picked up.
I wanted to share this story with you as a caution. I wouldn't want anyone else to repeat this tragedy. 
Quite by accident, I deleted the only picture I had of Elisa's sweet face.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm so sorry Charis


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Charis,

I am so so sorry to hear that you lost Elisa, and in such a horrible way. Poor little girl, as you say she must have been miserable. Now you have a very difficult wait and see ahead for your other birds. 
That vet that you took them to initially sounds like she is really odd. Baytril banned? That's strange, my vet just prescribed it a month ago for one of my birds. And maggots that burrow into the skin? As far as I know, maggots only eat dead tissue, not living. She sounds pretty flakey and incompetent. I can see why you were reluctant to even go to her.

I'll keep you and the rest of your girls in my thoughts that they get through this without further complications and are well and healthy. Thank you for the warning.

Feathery hugs to all,
Margaret


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh Charis - I am so so sorry!!! I can only imagine how upset you are - and I'll say some prayers that your other hens recover and pass the insulation. 

And in the middle of having out of town company for your son's graduation and keeping up with everything else that you've had on your plate these past several days... you never mentioned a word of it! Remember - you always have family here to offer support & a shoulder. 

Please do keep us posted on your hens... and if you "just need someone to talk to" you know there are plenty here that will listen (including me  ).


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

OMG Charis, this is so heartbreaking. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope and pray your other chickens will be fine. Is there a way to cover the insulation with something until it is removed? 

Reti


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm so sorry Elisa didn't make it. I hope the others are OK. It's heartwrenching when we loose any of our pets.


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Charis,
here I sit, reading your sad story, tears running down my face, thinking " My poor Charis" Please, if and when you are ever in need of a cuddle chicken, let me know. I have all of those sweet. new babies. I'm sure there would be one in tha bunch who may help ease your sad, sore heart. There's no one I would trust some of my kids to, so, if you want a kooky,spoiled, Maine chickie, let me know, and when baby(ies) are old enough to ship, I'd love to send your choice of bird(s) to you, I'll cover box and shipping.
Daryl


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Margaret...I think that vet has flipped her nut. I knew the information she gave me was not true. Honestly, I don't think she could have saved Elisa given the extent of her consumption but I sure don't think she addressed the real issue. Elisa was not a fat bird...full bodied...maybe. She was a large breed.

Daryl...That is so precious of you to offer me a chick...a Maine chick at that. If I am supposed to have another chicken, one will show up. The last hen to arrive was thrown over the fence. But thank you so much for your kindness and the offer. xxoo


When most of this little flock of mine arrive here, I was a new cancer survivor and my three old hens had passed. I put off getting chicks for a while really not knowing what my out come would be. In the feed store one day and admiring the chicks, I made a conscious decision to live, be well and so I bought a paper bag full of downy fluff.The bag held 3 chicks...Jamima, Olivia and Elisa. Two more, Plum and Kittery, came as rescues within days...Little, three years later. The bag of fluff has all passed over. While they were here, they were loved and spoiled every day. They were queens.

Thank you all for caring...sharing my pain. I haven't shared this with but one other person. No one else really gets it.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Charis, I am so sorry for your loss. You take such excellent care of your animals - this must have been very hard. Who would expect them to eat insullation? You treat all your charges with dignity and respect. Thank you for the excellent life you provided for Elisa.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Charis, I am so very, very sorry for your loss of your beloved chicken. Words are inadequate, but you have my heartfelt condolences.

It is always so difficult when you get a diagnosis, prognosis, treatment plan .. whatever .. from a vet and you have no confidence in what you've been told.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Charis, I'm also very sorry for your loss. I really hate to hear how, that's about as tough as it gets.

Pidgey


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

That is so sad, it is so hard to lose a good hen, they are so sweet and smart! I'm adding insulation to the list of dangerous things.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Darn, Charis! I am so sorry for the loss of your beloved Elisa!

Losing a beloved feathered one is so hard! We DO understand, as you know, and will always be here for love and support.

I am also sorry about your Vet experience. She sure doesn't sound like any type of intelligent Vet, much less Avian!

Sure am glad to hear that insulation will be a thing of the past!

With love and hugs at this sad time...

Shi


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I am so very sorry to hear about Elisa, Charis.

 

Cindy


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Very heartbreaking, I'm so sorry for your loss of Elisa and will pray for your other hens.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Oh Charis, I'm just so sorry about your dear little Elisa. I am in tears too. What a terrible thing to happen. I will hope and pray your other hens will be just fine, and that your grief eases a little. I'm so sorry.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry, Charis, what a terrible thing to happen! 



> As far as I know, maggots only eat dead tissue, not living.


Maggots will eat healthy tissue. :

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21043&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

My dear Charis, know that I have you in my heart.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sorry for the loss of elisa...I know my chickens will eat almost anything they see on the ground....It is helpful to know and to tell people exactly what this stuff can do....thanks for sharing this important sad information.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

OH Charis........I'm so sorry. I know that you must be heartbroken. Hugs coming your way..........


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I too, am very sorry to hear about Elisa. I know that pets are like your human kids, just different body and face wear, and it tears your heart out when something like this happens.

I pray your other kids will be safe and sound. You are in my thoughts and prayers and I am sending you a BIG hug for comfort.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

You might rethink the inside wall. As this give a place for mice and rats to breed. Unless you use another control method The mice will enter the inside wall And set up house keeping.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you re lee, I do have a different plan.

Thank you for all the kind comments and thoughts. You truly warm my heart. Please keep Plum in your thought and prayers today. There was not a single poop from her during the night and just little from the other two. They all look good and have great .I will remain watchful which is all Deb said we can do.


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Hello Charis,
Reading through this thread I suffered with you. I know how you feel about Elisa and understand your apprehension regarding the other little ones. At least you know what happened to Elisa. I could never accept not to know why I lost Joy. What happened in your loft set me thinking but I'll be telling about that in my thread. In the meantime I wish with all my heart that your birds will get better soon. Gladys


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## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Sorry to hear of your loss Charis.Hope your other feathered friends get through this ok.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry to read this sad story Charis. Plum will be in my thoughts...I do hope she will be ok. My heart goes out to you in sympathy. Please keep us posted.

I did read somewhere though that Baytril was recently banned for sale w/o a prescription from a vet. And noticed some of the pigeon supply houses took it off the shelf. But she could still prescribe it for you. That vet sounds pretty flaky.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*update*

Elisa was buried under the blueberry bushes. They are huge and were planted nearly 100 years ago. Her favorite thing was to cool herself beneath them on a hot summer day, that and she liked to wait for the over ripe blueberries to fall so she could eat them.

Plum still looks ok. The tip of her comb hasn't turned black as Elisa's did. No poops this morning beneath where she roosted but there was a nice sized poop next to where she was standing when I opened up the coop this morning. I hope it belonged to her.
The other two hens, did poop nicely the night and I am so relieved. 

Yesterday morning I started pulling off the wall covering and removing the insulation in the coop. I did find a nest of baby mice. They have just opened their eyes. I couldn't leave them in the coop and I couldn't kill them so...they are now in my keep. I've been hand feeding them and what is so amazing to me are their differences. One is a wiggle worm...two others are always eager to eat and the plumpest of the group. Another sucks it's little thumb. They fall asleep in a milk induced coma . I am officially sleep deprived. Babies are hard work.
Walt Whitman said..."A mouse is miracle enough to stagger a sextillion of infidals"...and he was right!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, that's a good update.......sounds like things are going good, except your sleep of course and ...................got any pictures of the babies? Never seen a baby mouse before.........


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> No poops this morning beneath where she roosted but there was a nice sized poop next to where she was standing when I opened up the coop this morning. I hope it belonged to her.
> The other two hens, did poop nicely the night and I am so relieved.


rthat sounds like very positive turn for them....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, that's a good update.......sounds like things are going good, except your sleep of course and ...................got any pictures of the babies? Never seen a baby mouse before.........


I tried taking pictures of the baby mice. They are so squirmy that all the pictures turned out blurry. I'll try later when I have another set of hands to help me.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm SO GLAD to hear your other hens are okay. I have been thinking about them but didn't want to bother you, especially if it was bad news you weren't ready to share. What a relief to see they're okay!! Elisa's resting place sounds beautiful and peaceful. 

And baby mice! Oh, that's hard work. Kind of a blessing you found them; even though they are hard work, it takes your mind away a little bit from worrying and the sadness.  I fed a litter once from a few days old, they were pet mice without a mom. I used KMR and a Q-tip lol. You know, you might try using a plastic bag with an eensy bit of the corner cut off. I wonder if they would nurse that? Good luck with them, the mental picture of the one sucking his thumb is precious.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hope Plum continues to do well. Sounds she is doing good so far. Glad everybody else is good.
Baby mice, how exciting, would love to see a pic. 

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Charis, thank you for the encouraging post. I'm glad you buried Elisa under the blueberry bushes that she loved.

I'm looking forward to pictures of the baby "meece". As a young girl, living in the country, I found them frequently and was totally charmed with them. Gosh, there would be so many in a nest. They were so cute, teensy, pink and loved to cuddle each other. I never had to feed them and can't imagine how you do it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I did start a Mice album. They are such squirmy little things most pictures turn out blurry. I included the best ones and will keep trying.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Update*

Good Morning everyone...Just wanted you to know, were 3 nice eliminations from Plum this morning and I am so relieved.

The mice are doing great and I am so tired! 
Thank you for all the kind word and notes and thank you for the prayers.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

The photos are so precious! How cute they are - especially all huddled together when they're sleeping. I don't know how in the world you manage to feed them though... they are sooooooo small 

Elisa's resting place does sound beautiful. I was so glad to hear that Plum is doing well and not showing the signs that Elisa was. Poops are always good signs 

I'll continue saying prayers for Plum and the rest of the group.

P.S. looked around for the little woodpecker last night when we got home - couldn't find it so we're assuming it recovered and is okay now. Thanks for chatting with me yesterday - course my first thought was "call Charis - she'll know what to do  "


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Those little micey's are SOO cute! What are you gonna do with them? Turn them loose or keep them? Do they bite?


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Charis,

I think that you placed Elisa in the perfect resting place. I am glad to hear that all else seems positive. 


The tiny mice are adorable. How old do you think they are? We will certainly love watching them grow.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm so glad and relieved to hear the ladies are doing much better, I've been 
worrying about them all week end.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The mice are hard to feed but it's getting easier as they adjust to my method of feeding which is a needle nose syringe. The first time I realized I needed glasses was when I was feeding baby mice 15 years ago.

They don't bite but do lick my finger.

I'm not sure how old they are but I would say about a week. They have already grown since I found them on Friday. They should be eating on their own within the next few days. Several have already lapped some of the milk from a bottle top full that I put in their quarters.
When they are eating seed and lots of other things, I will release them at a place called, The Rhododendron Test Garden. It a very beautiful place with lots of places for a mouse to make a home. There is lots of food from visitors that feed the ducks and squirrels and water trickling over small pebbles. It's mouse paradise. It's also in a very "exclusive" neighborhood so they will be living up scale.

When I was feeding this morning, the adventurer escaped and fell into the garbage disposal, thankfully there instead of the drain. Regardless, I think my heart did stop for a couple of seconds until I was able to retrieve him.

Time to feed them again.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

They are adorable. I am glad you also found a great place to release them. 
Thanks for the wonderful update on Plum. 

Reti


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## auroraborealis (May 30, 2006)

*Plum and Elsa*

So sorry, Charis, to hear about Elsa. Too many incompetent vets. We also have the same problem here and it is always a very stressful experience to go the vet because you sometimes get the feeling that they are improvising and really do not know what to do.

Glad to hear about Plum and the mice family!

Take care
Susan


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Charis, God works in mysterious ways, giving you these mice to raise. They are so very, very cute. I loved the picture of them in the carriage and especially the one sucking his thumb. Your release site sounds perfect for these little guys and I hope they thrive.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So glad the other hens seem to be doing well! What a lovely resting place for Elisa, under blueberry bushes.

Good luck with the baby mice! Years ago, I hand fed a domestic mouse litter when their momma got lost in the back yard. Luckily, the momma was found by a kindly neighbor the next day. Your babies are in much more capable hands!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Update!*

My sleepless nights have come to an end...the little mice are eating on their own. They especially enjoy minced carrots and apples...yum!


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

Blessings, Charis.

Sharing tears of sadness for your loss of sweet Elisa as well as tears of joy that the other sweet hens are out of the woods and back to normal!
Everyone knows how much TLC you give your little kids and now even little mice!!! Glad they're eating on their own now...Please get some rest!


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2007)

Wow, Charis you are truly amazing. Your glass is always half full. Tragedy is never easy but you are stronger than the average. You do amaze me. I hope God has a big enough bridge for you when your time comes to cross Rainbow Bridge. I am always here for you if you need a single thing. Only 3 & 1/2 hours away, all it takes is one phone call and I'll stop and fill the mazda up!! I prey your heart heals and fills with good memories of her. I am lucky to be able to be your friend. Landy


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Glad the baby mice are now eating on their own. Caring for newborns can be exhausting!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you all for the wonderful support. I feel blessed to be part of this forum and have you all to talk to. Landy...you reduced me to tears.
As of yesterday, the chicken coop as been fixed so those miceys, should more come back in, would have a hard time pushing insulation out. The handyman did cut off the tip of his thumb and had to go to the hospital for some stitches, but he did return to complete the job even though I suggested he wait until his thumb didn't hurt. [there was so much blood and I had to patch him up with gauze and vet wrap.]
The mice are doing great! Playing and eating all sort of things. When they first started eating on their own, each one got formula all over it's little face.... noses were plugged and it looked like they had no eyes. My first reaction was...OH NO...I'm going to have blind mice for the next 5 years! I was so relieved when I realized the problem. 
FYI, should any of you hand raise mice, please remember to put the top on the container you are keeping them in because once they figure out there is life outside of the clear walls, they make a go for it. All mice caught and accounted for now.
Finally, Plum and the other girls are having great looking poop...knock on wood. I think they are going to be ok now.
Again, thank you for all the wonderful support. I am blessed.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so glad to hear everybody is doing great, mice including. They must be so much fun to watch. I am sorry the handyman had such a bad cut, and he still came back, wow, how nice of him. Hope the insulation problem is solved now, once and for all.
Thanks for the update.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad to hear the girls are doing well with wonderful poops...and that your little miceys are growin up and eating on their own, I bet you love those little "mieces to pieces" now. 

I hope all settles down soon and you can get a long well-deserved nap!

Thanks for the update.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Great news Charis! I'm glad to see such a positive update for all critters!

I hope your contractor's thumb heals soon -- gave me shudders thinking out it.

I think you've had your share of excitement lately -- you deserve a vacation now (or at the very least a nap as Treesa suggests  ).


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi Charis-

So sorry about your Elisa and so glad that Plum and girls are recovering. 

Lucky mice- where's the album? I want to see, too!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Wow, Charis, I am so sooo soooooooooo sorry! I hope me writing this so late afterwards doesnt make you sad. I rarely look past the GENERAL or FERAL or SICK OR INJURED forums, and shame on me for that. I feel horrible i didnt even know about Elisa's passing.
Do know that in Elisa's eyes, YOU were her guardian angel, and she is able to look back on a life that had some extraordinary years with a very, VERY special lady, Charis! I know that you already see the time you guys had as a special gift, and as sad and heartbreaking as it is, i know you would never give back the heartbreak you are going through because that would mean giving back the special moments also. 
I cried when i read how you buried her under those blueberry bushes, that is so incredible sweet! Now she will ALWAYS have blueberries, they will always fall upon her and she will always remember the best home any chicken could ever know, and she will then remember and be so thankful that she led the life of chicken royalty. If i ever came back as a chicken, i would hope somebody would throw me over your fence Charis, because you truly are a guardian angel for all animals. 
I am so sad for you, and am incredibly sad I will not be able to meet Elisa in August. And, losing a picture of a pet is tragic, but you know all the best pictures are in your heart, and those are pictures Kodak can never capture.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Update*

The mice have been released. I intended to keep them a bit longer but they let me know it was time to go by jumping up and trying to get through the glass walls of the aquarium.
No pictures or ceremony...they were far too fast to even see them run off.
I feel just a little sad because for just a time they were my babies.... now, they belong to themselves. 
I do wonder if they will miss the Tofutti Mintz's Blintzes and wonder why they don't suddenly appear beneath the black berry brambles.
Have a happy life mice babies...you are a miracle.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Congratulations on the babies leaving home!!  I can't see where the album is, can someone direct my computer-illiterate self to it? All I can see are two images of the chickens.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Charis said:


> The mice have been released. I intended to keep them a bit longer but they let me know it was time to go by jumping up and trying to get through the glass walls of the aquarium.
> No pictures or ceremony...they were far too fast to even see them run off.
> I feel just a little sad because for just a time they were my babies.... now, they belong to themselves.
> I do wonder if they will miss the Tofutti Mintz's Blintzes and wonder why they don't suddenly appear beneath the black berry brambles.
> Have a happy life mice babies...you are a miracle.


Awwww Charis - it's always bittersweet when babies leave the nest -- any type of baby. I'm sure they will miss the Tofutti Mintz's Blintzes (by the way - what are they??). They may be back to visit sometime - don't be surprised
You sure did a GREAT job with those little ones!



maryjane said:


> I can't see where the album is, can someone direct my computer-illiterate self to it? All I can see are two images of the chickens.


Love that graphic MJ! To see Charis' albums (one of which has the mice) - go to http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?u=7329


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dez...The Blintzes can be purchased at Trader Joe's, at least here they can. They are in the freezer section and they are yummy!
Fingers crossed the mice decide the journey back here is too far and they have it good where they are at. Occasionally, I will drop a blintz or two under the blackberry brambles.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I wish the little sweeties a wonderful and long life.
Great job Charis, tose were some lucky little guys.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

So glad your little furry critters did so well. Years ago, I rescued a little damp (cat-chewed?) mousie found lying on the sidewalk, barely breathing. After several weeks recovery in a wire-topped aquarium, he still wasn't using one of his front paws. I figured that was too much of a handicap to release, so expected him to be a permanent guest.

A few weeks later, I glimpsed him clambering around on the underside of the wire top, looking for a way out! I figured if he could leap up and cling so ably on three paws, he deserved to be free. We took him back to a wooded area near where he was found. A quick grey flash and he was gone. Sometimes, they'll tell you, like your little ones did.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TerriB said:


> So glad your little furry critters did so well. Years ago, I rescued a little damp (cat-chewed?) mousie found lying on the sidewalk, barely breathing. After several weeks recovery in a wire-topped aquarium, he still wasn't using one of his front paws. I figured that was too much of a handicap to release, so expected him to be a permanent guest.
> 
> A few weeks later, I glimpsed him clambering around on the underside of the wire top, looking for a way out! I figured if he could leap up and cling so ably on three paws, he deserved to be free. We took him back to a wooded area near where he was found. A quick grey flash and he was gone. Sometimes, they'll tell you, like your little ones did.


Terri, I just love that story. They sure do let us know. The dog brought me another today...just a little baby with it's eyes not yet open.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Yeah, I saw your photo - what a sweetie!


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