# Hard to Watch but Good to Talk About



## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

I volunteer with Mercy for Animals a group that does outstanding work
helping factory farmed birds. Video has been posted of undercover hatchery investigations. If you can take it please watch and pass along.

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/

http://www.mercyforanimals.org


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> This thread needed to be started in the News & Advocacy thread, It needs to be moved to the appropriate place.


DONE!......................


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

That is very sad, very disturbing. I do agree with much of what their saying, are they PETA affiliated? I think most people can watch a video like that then go away and eat a chicken or an egg and not consider where it came from. 
Someone posted PETAs meet your meat video on here some time ago- when discussing using pigeons as meat- that was when it dawned on me that the chicken on my plate was the chicken at the farm and I haven't been able to eat anything animal based since then. I think alot of people have the ability to completely detach themselves, the rest of my family saw the same video as I did only it didn't effect them in the same way, I suppose it depends on the person and their individual morals.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

That was to much I couldn't watch.
Dave


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I don't condemn hunters, but I want them to eat what they kill. I came across about 50 candian geese last year and the only thing they took off of them is the breast meat and then they tossed them on the edge of this water canal. Couldn't even dispose of them properly. I also know hunters that just kill the geese just to get a band off them so they can make a necklace. NOW THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!! I made a big stink and he did lose his hunting license for several years, but he has them back this year. I just feel sorry for all the animals. But I would have to say I'm one of those hyprocrites, unfortunately, I blame my parents, I have tried several times to quit eating meat. If I had to kill for my own food then I know I could not kill them and then I would be a vegetarian. But its already dead in the stores. I'm sorry to say.

Fbirdie82: I love the work that you do. you go girl!! min


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## Claudia (Jun 24, 2009)

I did not watch it as I have seen enough of them to invision it. I used to be a hunter. I always ate all of what I shot. I was hungry and I fed my family this way. I no longer hunt but don't mind people who do as long as they eat what they shot. 

I do like meat eggs and milk. I am always looking for products that came from humainly treated animals. I buy what I call "happy chicken eggs", happy animal meat. It always costs more, but I am no longer hungry and can afford to buy it. It is hard to find and I'm never sure if I am being taken, but I do it anyway. I justify it by thinking that the animal would not have been born if it were not going to be eaten. It was bred and born as food. Maybe a short happy life and being humainly treated is better than never being born at all. I am always surprised how many people think that I am spending too much and thinking about the treatment too much. That I have too much empathy. Maybe I do but it makes me feel better.

Claudia


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

Sad video. I watched the first one. I respect both vegitarians and meat eaters out there. I myself am somewhere in the middle. I eat meat, but because I am a bit a bird lover I refuse poltry. Any way, there has to be a more humane way to raise poltry than they are doing in the first video. I never knew they killed the males. Thank you for illuminating that for me. just another reason for me to keep not eating chicken.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I have NINE ROOSTERS. With only 11 hens. I would never kill my roosters, but my life is not easy with them. I let 6 of them run free and they all go to there own little dog house that is in a pen for there safety at night. To get to all of them to go in there own dog houses was not easy, it was a lot of work. Well it wasn't that hard, about a week of going out there right at dusk to show them where I wanted them. It was such a joy to see everyone in there homes. Out of 9 chicks last year 7 of them were roosters. Why couldn't 7 be hens!!! I have one rooster that I bring inside when it gets cold because he is really old like 9 years old. Poor guy, he has a mate that doesn't have any feathers, born that way, so she comes inside also. It is sad that the males get "trashed". As long as you don't give them hens they will get along with one another once someone is the "Chief". min


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

yeah, we can't keep roosters anymore in dallas, but we still have 3 hens. ofcourse, they are just pets.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Columbia, if you keep you rooster locked up in the dark until a reasonable hour of the morning, you could probably keep one. Just a thought. That is what a friend of mine does that lives in town. He catches him everynight, takes him in the garage in a dog crate and covers it up and then lets him come out at around 9:00 am. And when he takes a vacation, the rooster comes to my house and I rooster sit. min


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

yeah, but I don't really wan't one any way .


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Most people don't, thats why they go in the trash, so sad. I would have to say I wouldn't have 9 roosters if I had to go buy them. But since they hatch from my loft they are keepers. lets just say, I don't allow any babies anymore. I'll go buy them first. Because I CAN'T have anymore rooster. They live probably twice as long as my hens do.


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## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

Raised on a farm and have worked in one of the biggest egg laying farms in the U.S. I see nothing wrong. 

Southwing/MidWest/EX-Chicken Farmer


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

im sorry to hear that.


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## Am_pitbull (Nov 20, 2009)

This is why Im very proud to work for Chipotle Mexican Grill.

Check out what I mean. I'm sure some of you may already know about us. This is a little bit about our "Food With Integrity" This is fron our site.

The hallmarks of Food With Integrity include things like unprocessed, seasonal, family-farmed, sustainable, nutritious, naturally raised, added hormone free, organic, and artisanal. And, since embracing this philosophy, it's had tremendous impact on how we run our restaurants and our business. It's led us to serve more naturally raised meat than any other restaurant in the country, to push for more sustainable practices in produce farming, and to work with dairy suppliers to eliminate the use of added hormones from their operations. 

http://www.chipotle.com click on the FWI link on the left.

We were also featured on Nightline http://www.chipotle.com/video/nightline.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Am_pitbull said:


> This is why Im very proud to work for Chipotle Mexican Grill.
> 
> Check out what I mean. I'm sure some of you may already know about us. This is a little bit about our "Food With Integrity" This is fron our site.
> 
> ...


very cool, wish this place was in my town! but I guess we all could do this in our own kitchens...people would be surprised how great it is buying local.....


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Fbirdie, I know this is apple and oranges, but I'm curious what your thoughts on Flouride that is in our drinking water? min


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2009)

taking a college course really changes a person doesnt it  these practices have been going on for a lifetime and a half , I dont see it ever changing the outcome .. you either eat them or you dont ,its a personal choice of what you chose to ignore to exist in the cruel world that we call home .

p.s. if I was a wolf I would eat you too ..lol


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> taking a college course really changes a person doesnt it  these practices have been going on for a lifetime and a half , I dont see it ever changing the outcome .. you either eat them or you dont ,its a personal choice of what you chose to ignore to exist in the cruel world that we call home .
> 
> p.s. if I was a wolf I would eat you too ..lol


I don't think modern practices of keeping food animals has been going for a lifetime, in the old west cattle were kept on open land maintained by the cowboys, they were grazed, not kept in small pens, fed pellets . If I did buy beef, I would rather it come from a small farmer with open pasture land where they graze and have a better life IMO, same with the poultry, that is how it was in days past, before all these meat/egg industries came about. of course you do not know about the persons farm except what they post, unless you go visit the farm, which could be done if your going local. I think alot of folks may ignore where their meat comes from, but I think also people just don't think about it at all. so the info should be out there at least so people will know and can make a choice...I do not believe in putting my choices on to others, there is no way the whole world is going to stop eating meat, so at least we can do it in a way that is humane and natural as possible, and one way is to buy local! not from the big meat industry..they need to appeal to their buyers so perhaps they can change some practices and in return sell more meat! here is a link, if folks want to get started buy local. http://www.localharvest.org/


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

I incubated six chicken eggs in an incubator this year, only one hatched and lucky me got a rooster... so I have one crowing-at-stupid-o-clock rooster in my garden, we love him too much to give him away though so one rooster and maybe chickens next year!  



Fbirdie82 said:


> Just finished watching the videos, and would like to mention that going vegan is not the answer.


I completely agree that veganism isn't the *only answer*- theres alot more reasonable things to ask of people than diving into something so serious, but it is *an answer*. It is possible to get everything you need from a plant based diet- I do so and have been doing so for 17 years with no ill effects. 

I am not against eating animals and do think that we are probably supposed to eat meat like you said but I do not think that our food should have to suffer for this to happen. If I could- and I know I couldn't- catch my own food, kill and prepare it myself, then I would eat it. But I can't so until such a time....


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

We humans have never been so foolish or so cruel. Treating animals as objects in factories is the furthest thing from what god intended their lives to be. Our laziness and sloth has made is so. These practices are new, harsh, extremely painful and very cruel. For more of the story see www.mercyforanimals.org and for a bigger picture watch the movie Earthlings:http://www.earthlings.com/earthlings/video-full.php

Humans will not survive into the next century unless we change the way we relate to animals. Animals are responsible for making the soil, the sea floor and the air we breath. We have killed most of them off already. There are no machines to make new soil. Each time a crop is taken there is less soil and what is left is chemicalized. The desertification of the sea floor is happening 25 times faster than the land. Use Google Earth and look around the Country. Ethiopia was once forested. The forests had animals too. Today the ground in Ethiopia is fruitless and the people depend on imported food aid. All our most fertile farm lands are deforested drained wetlands. There is no machine to recreate the soil. The animals have been killed. The bugs and worms too. Aphis a wing of the USDA poisons birds by the 10's of millions. Fresh water is running out too. Sorry to report but you, me and our ancestor's will all be living differently in the near future if we are still alive. Cities as we know them will no longer be possible. Agrarian lifestyles will return out of necessity. Continuous wildlife bands must be created across the globe if the world is to regenerate and recover from the foolish, selfish, misuse of land and cruelty to animals by our species.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Wow...I couldn't have said it better. I agree with you 100%.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

superflyer said:


> We humans have never been so foolish or so cruel. Treating animals as objects in factories is the furthest thing from what god intended their lives to be. Our laziness and sloth has made is so. These practices are new, harsh, extremely painful and very cruel. For more of the story see www.mercyforanimals.org and for a bigger picture watch the movie Earthlings:http://www.earthlings.com/earthlings/video-full.php
> 
> Humans will not survive into the next century unless we change the way we relate to animals. Animals are responsible for making the soil, the sea floor and the air we breath. We have killed most of them off already. There are no machines to make new soil. Each time a crop is taken there is less soil and what is left is chemicalized. The desertification of the sea floor is happening 25 times faster than the land. Use Google Earth and look around the Country. Ethiopia was once forested. The forests had animals too. Today the ground in Ethiopia is fruitless and the people depend on imported food aid. All our most fertile farm lands are deforested drained wetlands. There is no machine to recreate the soil. The animals have been killed. The bugs and worms too. Aphis a wing of the USDA poisons birds by the 10's of millions. Fresh water is running out too. Sorry to report but you, me and our ancestor's will all be living differently in the near future if we are still alive. Cities as we know them will no longer be possible. Agrarian lifestyles will return out of necessity. Continuous wildlife bands must be created across the globe if the world is to regenerate and recover from the foolish, selfish, misuse of land and cruelty to animals by our species.


I agree. VERY well put. Thanks for sharing the videos. You're right. Hard to watch, but people need to watch. They need to know, instead of looking the other way. They need to know the truth about the barbaric way people handle and kill these poor animals so that we can eat. These practices are disgusting, and no one with any conscience or heart could do these things to helpless animals. And we are all just as guilty if we just look the other way and do nothing to change things. If someone can watch that video and feel nothing is wrong with it, then there is something wrong with them. There must be something very important that is missing in their soul. How sad. How sad when someone sees nothing wrong with cruelty and torment to another of Gods creatures. A creature who feels pain and fright just as much as we do. If you cannot feel the pain of these animals, then you cannot feel the pain of another human being. Good Lord!


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i spent my externship on a west virginia farm, that was last year so i forgot the real name of the place, but i'll find out.
Dairy farm, but they had chickens, sheep, pigs.
We were told in school before we got there not to be suprised and also not to say anything about the way these animals are kept. 
To be honest i think large animals deacent life, but once we got to the chickens i couldnt help myself but stand there and cry.
They thought us how to draw blood out of chickens and how to administer meds and since most time its hard to find the jugular on chickens they just pulled whole bunch of feathers out of them like it was not a big deal....poor little chickens.
And i looked at every one of those chickens as an individual, i had chickens growing up, most of them were my pets and i know how tame they get , and how much they love to dust bathe and sit on the sun and run around the yard, and eat worms, or roosters when they calling hens when they find food, they make sure hen gets to eat first..
and these chickens in these cages will never, ever experience that... 

we are so overpopulated...thats why people treating animals with no mercy..
what has this world came to...

and those little babies roosters that are grinded in the videos , u know they use that as food, they mixit with grains, "its protein" 
thats why chickens grow faster and bigger and thats why we ( well most people that live in usa) thats why we growing fatter and fatter, cause of what they feed our animals with. All the steriods, all the antibiotics.

did you know that grinded beef, pork, mostly comes from the neck where all the meds are administered.. adn do u really think that meds leave their systems before the meat gets on our plate..
not just that animals are treated without mercy, but its us too. ITs all business, these meat producers dont care about us or the animals thay dealing with

its a shame.. watching these videos made me cry , but what can i do???
how can i change their life to better? really what can i do?
becoming vegetarian wont help, im just one individual. and we humans we need meat.. we always have and always will.
but before we got so overpopulated and before we destroyed our planet and wiped out half of planets species, we did treat our animals better...
hope times change before we are wiped out as well. We probably will be, food is contaminated, water is contaimnated, we lack of fresh air, planet lacks green.......
well i can go on and on about this and whats wrong, but then again im just an individual and i cant change the world if the world dont want to join me ....
i just dont know, i get so worked up about this subject  my head hurts now


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

superflyer said:


> We humans have never been so foolish or so cruel. Treating animals as objects in factories is the furthest thing from what god intended their lives to be. Our laziness and sloth has made is so. These practices are new, harsh, extremely painful and very cruel. For more of the story see www.mercyforanimals.org and for a bigger picture watch the movie Earthlings:http://www.earthlings.com/earthlings/video-full.php
> 
> Humans will not survive into the next century unless we change the way we relate to animals. Animals are responsible for making the soil, the sea floor and the air we breath. We have killed most of them off already. There are no machines to make new soil. Each time a crop is taken there is less soil and what is left is chemicalized. The desertification of the sea floor is happening 25 times faster than the land. Use Google Earth and look around the Country. Ethiopia was once forested. The forests had animals too. Today the ground in Ethiopia is fruitless and the people depend on imported food aid. All our most fertile farm lands are deforested drained wetlands. There is no machine to recreate the soil. The animals have been killed. The bugs and worms too. Aphis a wing of the USDA poisons birds by the 10's of millions. Fresh water is running out too. Sorry to report but you, me and our ancestor's will all be living differently in the near future if we are still alive. Cities as we know them will no longer be possible. will return out of necessity. Continuous wildlife bands must be created across the globe if the world is to regenerate and recover from the foolish, selfish, misuse of land and cruelty to animals by our species.


you should write an article.... very well put. Here in VA I have noticed most Farmland use is done with no till, which keeps the soil intact....but it may cause more use of herbacides for weeds, which is not so good...here is one way to no till and keep the "weeds" down, that I find interesting and have done on my little garden and alot of home gardeners too, wish they could employ it on larger farms.

[edit] The Cardboard Method
Some farmers who prefer to pursue a chemical-free management practice often rely on the use of normal, non-dyed corrugated cardboard for use on seed-beds and vegetable areas. Used correctly, cardboard placed on a specific area can A) keep important fungal hyphae and microorganisms in the soil intact B) prevent recurring weeds from popping up C) increase residual nitrogen and plant nutrients by top-composting plant residues and D) create valuable topsoil that is well suited for next years seeds or transplants. The plant residues (left over plant matter originating from cover crops, grass clippings, original plant life etc) will rot while underneath the cardboard so long as it remains sufficiently moist. This rotting attracts worms and other beneficial microorganisms to the site of decomposition, and over a series of a few seasons (usually Spring-->Fall or Fall-->Spring) and up to a few years, will create a layer of rich topsoil. Plants can then be direct seeded into the soil come spring, or holes can be cut into the cardboard to allow for transplantation. Using this method in conjunction with other sustainable practices such as composting/vermicompost, cover crops and rotations are often considered beneficial to both land and those who take from it.
.... 

in the end we do have to obey the rythms of nature, like The Amish, Mennonites, and Hutterites


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good idea. I always piled up dry leaves, once the soil warmed and the plants were growing. You never get a weed, you hardly have to water, as they keep the moisture in, and they break down into a beautiful rich compost. So every year, you are building your soil and making it better. Earthworms galore. Also, in the fall cover the whole thing with a couple of feet deep of leaves. The earthworms don't go down as they normally would when the ground freezes, because it doesn't freeze under the leaves. Instead, they will work all winter at eating and composting those leaves. In the spring, you just turn it all into the soil. Works great, and things grow great. There are so many good things we can do.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Vegan is the way to go! It takes time to learn how to be vegan though, I suggest a gradual change and doing research. It is easy to talk without knowing and easy to make a half hearted effort but the rewards of change are great. There are body builders that are vegan, deer are vegan, horses, gorillas, even my friends pit bull is vegan and he is one of the strongest dogs I've seen. Check out the China Study. Poor Chinese that can only afford vegan diets are the healthiest people on earth. Speaking for myself I felt a bit weak eating vegan until I learned which combinations of foods my body responded best to. A major thing was discovering extra light extra virgin olive oil. Getting oils right was an important thing for me.


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## bluebirdsnfur (Jan 20, 2009)

*FOR WHATEVER HAPPENS TO THE BEAST....HAPPENS TO THE MAN!*


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Fbirdie82, I love reading what you write. I totally agree with everything you say. I need to step up and doing something about it in my area. Or at least start checking on diary farms in my area and see what they are doing and other places. There is a chicken plant 3 miles from me. I love the way you put things. You don't dilly dally around and I like that. Especially saying that about the owner of the pit bull and making him a vegan. Come one people. If that dog had a chance to eat meat or eat vegetables do you really think he is going to eat the vegetables. NO!! Dogs are already not here long enough and live a short life already. Let him eat what they want to eat. Let them enjoy the few years they have here. min


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Fbirdie82 said:


> Now we are talking about something different.  Farmers are no longer the top ones to blame for all the chemicals. Sorry, but most farmers converted to no-chem/low-chem years ago. It is the industry and the _housing developements_ that are the leaders in chemical pollution today.


not here in Va, right across the street from me, they use chem/herbicides, and also at my friend's 200 acre farm she leases....so yes they do still use them....at least here.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Around here, I'm always seeing the farmers spraying the fields. There is a peach orchard right across the road from me, and he is always spraying, and it must be pretty bad stuff because the tractor they use to spray with looks like something out of a future sci-fi movie, all inclosed.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

*Who eats what??? Which Country? All the same?*

There is a wise saying that a person who knows everything can learn very little.
So far my research leads me to believe people have eaten mostly plants through
out history. Here on earth, today, people eat much more plant matter than animal. There are billions of people that eat very little if any animal matter.
Some people switch from animal heavy diets to being completely vegan all at once and are completely healthy. It's not so hard to break out of the false ways
and ideas we learned. But it does take effort. Most of us are very disconnected from nature. Most of us would have trouble identifying more than
10 plants in a forest. It's no wonder many people think being vegan is impossible and insane.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

On the sundance channel this morning there was this big documentary about Monsanto, the chemical plant. All about the Bovine Hormone. Terrible. Everyone should watch that documentary, it was very informative. 

Not only is Monsanto harming the cows, they are genetically modifying, cotton, soybeans, and Corn. The RoundUp Pesticide is harming this environment more then they are letting us know. They are producing reports without any testing. Everyone should really watch that Documentary. min


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Superflyer , I don't know who you wrote that statement for, but if it was for Fbirdie82, I would have to say you are totally wrong about her. Here is someone trying to make people aware of whats going on and what we can do to make it better and all I can say is I love learning from her. I would also say she probably learns something everyday and I can only hope she passes all of her hard work on to others. 

The reason why I think vegan is impossible and insane is because for 44 years I have been eating meat. My body craves meat. Now if you think I can switch to being a vegan without wanting meat, then I would LOVE to hear how you do it. I blame my parents, you know the saying you don't miss what you don't know. Well if they didn't give me meat while I was a child tell I left home then I wouldn't miss meat. But we had cows in our pasture and we always had plenty of steak in our freezer. Unfortunately. min


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks Mindy I'll look for the documentary. I've heard the latest genetically modified seeds must be activated by chemicals. Last summer I met a fellow who leased his acreage to a farmer who put a chemical on his land that kills everything but lets soybeans grow. Indiana has lots of moles. All the moles from his field moved to his yard after the chemical application. There are some very interesting national and world maps and resource info on USDA Natural Resources Conservation Site. If interested see the links below. 
http://soils.usda.gov/use/worldsoils/mapindex/index.html

http://soils.usda.gov/education/facts/formation.html

http://soils.usda.gov/use/thematic/

http://soils.usda.gov/


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Fbirdie82 said:


> I didn't say that nobody uses chems. But most have gone no-chem/low-chem a long time ago.
> 
> It is not disputable, it is fact, industry and the common home owner are the leading cause of chemical pollution today.
> 
> ...


not at all! I love this stuff... I wanted to go to AG college out of school, but could not afford it at the time.....I spent alot of summers at my relatives dairy farm down in Fla, and learnd allot. Their cows had 800 acres of pasture land and it was organized in a very humane opperation.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

The famous saying was for us all because we all have moments when our prior knowledge and positions interfere with our ability to change and embrace truth. I'm okay with people eating meat if they raise the animals they eat like loved pets but I think there is a better way. Yesterday I went to a vegan thanksgiving pot luck. There were many things that were great. My favorite was a vegan lasagna. I liked a dish with yams and oatmeal a lot too. I don't eat vegan imitation meats. But I like the
Subway Veggie Max. If you have a Subway in your area try one! I have found my taste buds have come alive since changing my diet. I am mush healthier now. I'm not all vegan all the time but I'm on my way there. After a short while eating non animal foods
the animals based foods don't taste so good anymore. I posted about the movie
Earthlings, if you need more motivation than health to change watch the free online movie. Everybody should watch it so they have a better understanding of what's going
on with pets, wildlife, entertainment animals and animals used for food and products.
See:http://www.earthlings.com/earthlings/video-full.php


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## hugh (Apr 27, 2009)

Watched the first video. Yes it was kinda sad, but not disturbing. It's the way the food cycle is. I raise my own chickens and turkeys. No chemicals, tastes great. And yes I do feel bad when I'm sending them them frezzer camp. But its all wirth it when the kids are begging me to make chicken and sage dumplings. To each his own, but can't see vegin at our house. 

In collage the class went to a huge pork butchering facility in Ft Wayne. Yes it was grusome, but it seemed humane.


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## Critter*Magnet (Sep 11, 2009)

I watched the first video...sad...but, how else would you mass-process them?

All those male chicks that were put in the grinder...
...next time you buy a bag of pet food with 'poultry by-product meal' in the list of ingredients, think about those chicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bpL65thMCY&NR=1


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