# Post egg paralysis



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

For those who don't know the story, my King girl Alice had post egg laying paralysis a couple of months ago and recovered in three days.
Today she has it again, after he second egg she gets paralyzed.
Now, I don't want this to happen every month, separating her from he mate is not option, Lupron doesn't work that well in pigeons and costs a lot. Anyone has some suggestions?

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oo! Short of the equivalent of a oviductectomy (something like that), I don't know what would work besides a lot of cold showers.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Pidgey said:


> Oo! Short of the equivalent of a oviductectomy
> 
> Pidgey


That is what I didn't want to hear.   

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Maybe a little boost with calcium, niacin, and Vitamin B .. that seems to help with ducks who have similar problems.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> Maybe a little boost with calcium, niacin, and Vitamin B .. that seems to help with ducks who have similar problems.
> 
> Terry


Thanks Terry.
She's been on Calcium supplement and vitamins.
I wouldn't supplement with niacin. Have you ever taken it? I had the most horrible experienc with it, the skin flushes, you get really hot and then your skin gets prickly and itchy. It lasts only minutes, but I hate it and I wouldn't give my birds anything I hate, then they will hate me. Alice doesn't exactly love me anyways.

Reti


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The hen Needs Oyster shell tabs you can by at any wall mart. 500 untit dose Give this for five days. Also brewers yeast tab For five days. She should come back fine. This Can kill her if not caught in time. As hens get older they should be given a boost each years during breeding season And I made a habit To treat all hens Befor pairing or juast as pairing each year. even though the birds get grit a such Hens use a lot of calcium during the egg developing and laying. Rough eggs softer shell ect show a break down. Good smooth eggs And no health issues is what we need I would recomend You rest this hen for the rest of this year. As moult probaly has not been over long or is just ending depending on location and breed. This by its self is a stressful time for all the birds. Anyways Good luck


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti, 


Wow, this IS pretty inconvenient...for you and the Hen...

The only Leg Paralysis issues I have dealt with were appearently from lower back injuries, or sprains/strains/breaks to the Legs themselves, and not as something incidental to Laying, so, I have no experiences to draw on for this.

At what point does the paralysis set in? IS it some days before she lays her Egg, or before she lays her second Egg? Or right after the second one?

If the pressure of the passage of the Egg itself, against her Kidneys, can effect the proximite sciatic Nerve, then I would ( naively, just trying to think, ) expect the Nerve effect to be limited to the actual time the Egg is pressing, before it is Layed.

If she has some order of mildly enlarged or inflamed Kidneys as a chronic condition, then one might expect complications from Laying to effect her Legs possibly, since her Kidneys and the sciatic Nerve might be bothered more from the pressure than they should otherwise be...

Otherwise, about all I can think of, is routine flying and other excercise, fresh Greens a couple times-a-week...Calcium rich Grit as re lee mentions...and direct outdoor Sunshine when possible...and maybe the famous ACV-Water as a common routine for her...


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Not a solution, but something that might help is raspberry leaf tea. It helps with contractions.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Reti,

'm sorry to hear about Alice.

I really don't have anything to add, except give her the extra nutrition, as Robert mentioned.

I have been giving some of my girls a bit of a alfalfa tab from Shaklee, it smells good and is loaded with calcium and other minerals.

Here is the earlier thread about Alice, for those of you who don't know the history.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17272


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> Thanks Terry.
> She's been on Calcium supplement and vitamins.
> *I wouldn't supplement with niacin. Have you ever taken it? I had the most horrible experienc with it, the skin flushes, you get really hot and then your skin gets prickly and itchy.* It lasts only minutes, but I hate it and I wouldn't give my birds anything I hate, then they will hate me. Alice doesn't exactly love me anyways.
> 
> Reti


Hi Reti,

I'm so sorry to hear about Alice.  
We 'females' sure have a lot to contend with, don't we?  

Thanks for the 'heads up' about the Niacin. Do you think you were extra sensitive to it or are those common side effects? Even for a few minutes, they certainly don't sound pleasant. 

Thinking good thoughts that you are able to get Alice's problem under control.  

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh my, thank you so much for all the input, I appreciate it.
Cindy, these are common side effects of niacin. Niacin is indicated for lowering cholesterol but because of these side eeffects people are often noncompliant with the treatmet. I don't blame them.

Phil, the paralysis sets in right after the second egg. I compared the first and second egg and the second is no bigger than the first one.
I don't know if she has some sort of kidney disorder, she seems otherwise perfectly healthy to me.
As for sunshine, yes, she has, plus vitamins w/vit.D. Exercise, no, she just loves to sit around in her cage or at the window and that's it.

Robert, I will get the Oyster shell tabs tomorrow (Walmart is very far away form me, but will look at our local pharmacy first today). I do have brewer's yeast.
The eggs are fine, smooth and ok size for her. I mean, they are big but so is she.
How can I rest her. This would mean to separate her from her mate in a cage in the laundry room, which I cannot do for extended period, she would be miserable. She is not a pet either so I can put her in the living room and take her out just to play.
She just went through a terrible moult though, should be over now.
So, other than rest, I will do everything else.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

TerriB, where do I get the rasberry leafs from?

Hmm, that is a good a good idea. Should think who would baby sit her for a few weeks. On the other hand, wouldn't she get terrible stressed having to move?

Reti


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Reti,

Sorry to hear about Alice's problem.

This probably isn't feasible because I know how picky most people's birds are as to what they will and will not eat, but I remember someone on the board (Cynthia, I think, but if I'm wrong, hope the correct person will forgive me) mentioning a diet high in barley as a method of birth control. 

Don't know if it would work, but if she's willing to eat it, maybe it's something you can try.

Good luck and hope Alice is back to normal soon.

Linda  

PS....Okay, maybe it was Treesa! Found this previous post:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=79288&postcount=6


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks LB, she is one of my favorites (I don't care that she doesn't like me and her mate tries to kill me), but then again, they are all my favorites especially when they are not well.
I do get also separation anxiety when I have to part with them. It is a tough decision to make.


Thanks Lin.
I am feeding them lots of Barley since I discussed it with Treesa. Angel hasn't had eggs since March, Fran since June and Little Fan about a month now. So, I guess it is the Barley. 
Alice is eating it too, but I guess in some it has more effect than in others.
Fran doesn't look good since she hasn't laid any eggs and we can't figure what is wrong with her.
My vet suggested exploratory surgery after an xray that showed an enormous mass in her abdomen. In the next xray, after all the goodies Treesa recommended the mass is much smaller but still there. We don't know what it is but for some reason I can't bring myself to have the surgery. And I have learned to listen to my gut feeling.
Sometimes it's tough to have babies.

Reti


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Raspberry leaf tea is found in most health food stores. I just brew up a cup, then dilute it with an equal amount of water. I use that in their waterer starting the day before the hen is due to lay. Seems to be a bit of a tonic. Added heat also seems to help when laying gets closer. Sure hope your hen improves!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks, TerriB, will need to get it.
Guess it won't hurt if I give it to everybody.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> My vet suggested exploratory surgery after an xray that showed an enormous mass in her abdomen. I We don't know what it is but for some reason I can't bring myself to have the surgery. And I have learned to listen to my gut feeling.
> *Sometimes it's tough to have babies.*
> Reti



Reti,

It is just like having kids.

I hope Alice is doing better today.

I'm so sorry to hear Fran's condition, I would continue to give her everything you gave her before to see if you can get the mass reduced further in size. I'm wondering if she is carrying immature eg yolk sacs and other build up. If she has actually stopped laying eggs then that will benefit her, but whatever still remains needs to come out one way or another. This situation may require intervention, but i know exactly how you feel.

I have several hens who actually stopped laying, but I'm pretty sure it is menopause, because they have been laying for a number of years. There is no swelling or any egg issues, or history with these hens. Sometimes I wish they would all go into menopause.

I did see a significant reduction of eggs with the barley, but the quality of the barley had me worried,plus they were in the molt, so I stopped. My hens continue to lay eggs, it is just difficult as we never seem to be short of daylight here. We must be the "breeding capital" of the world for our pigeons.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

We must be the "breeding capital" of the world for our pigeons.[/QUOTE]

You can say that again 
Well, Angel and LF, I don't think they could be in menopausee they are way too young (Angel 3 and LF 4).
I don't know what it is, hope it is the Barley and I don't have something going on here.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think Archimedes, my menopause hen, just ran out of eggs, she has layed the most eggs as she is one of my older hens and has hatched quite a few babies. Or she just comes from a weak strain, I don't know her history either.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Wish Alice would go into menopause. She's 8, isn't it about time? Maybe that's why she started having problems.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> Wish Alice would go into menopause. She's 8, isn't it about time? Maybe that's why she started having problems.
> 
> Reti



That is possible too. I have a hen who started laying at a later age, never had a mate for a long time, and she has had problems too.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> .
> 
> We must be the "breeding capital" of the world for our pigeons.


Mmm, bet AZ could give FL a run for its money! At least judging by Peter Pied Piper at ASU. He and his mates were NON-stop!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Also you might keep some cod liver oil caps, on hand When egg problems come up This aids in the laying By helping the egg to pass. On and off for all times of pigeon keeping people have dealt with this problem and many a hen has lost there life. Good calcium back up And brewers yeast tabs has been a strong hold for both prevention and recovery. Plus with older hens They need to stay strong by this prevenative measures Good luck.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you re lee.
How do I give her this as a prevention and how often. I don't want to loose her.
She was doing better yesterday, she was able to stand.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*organic fresh cod liver oil*

Reti,

I have done a drop down the throat, but only once in a while. Robert, thank you for bringing that up, I forgot to mention that. 

Make sure to get a good organic solvent-free cod liver oil (guaranteed to be heavy metal free), from waters like Norway.

It is an excellent source of natural vitamin A, D, which allows better calcium utilization, and it has vitamin E also.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thanks Treesa, will go to Wild Oats on Saturday and get it from there.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Reti,


How's she doing?


Hoping to hear she is walking around again!

Phil
Las Vegas


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