# Hi! New here and need help.



## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

I had a baby bird (dove-pigeon) fall out of my tree. 

Been nursing it back to health and all has been well. Lil birdy went from dying to flying around in my living room!

Then....my curious George pooch knocked his cage on the floor.

Lil birdy took quite a spill. Seems like his leg is broken. At first he had NO grip whatsoever but now he is gripping pretty good.

However, his leg sticks out to his side a little now. Local Vet said it could be around a thousand bucks to fix him and we dont have it right now.

What can-should I do?!?!!?

Thanks, FB


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

spend the money?


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> spend the money?



thanks for the advice.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Can you post some images?

Of the Bird, and, close ups of the Leg issue?


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Can you post some images?
> 
> Of the Bird, and, close ups of the Leg issue?


I have pics right now but dont see how to post them. 

I could email them to somebody??


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

flutterbug said:


> thanks for the advice.


yeah, did not think that would go over well..but it is probably what needs to done..sorry.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

flutterbug said:


> I have pics right now but dont see how to post them.
> 
> I could email them to somebody??



When making Post, scroll down a little further, and elect the 'Manage Attachments' option.

Or, use a free site, like Photobucket, Fotki, Webshots, etc, and, take the URL for posting the image in a forum option for your image, and, put that URL in the Post.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Here are some directions:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15

Karyn


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Here we go.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Flutterbug, can you tell us exactly when this accident happened, is there an obvious break (is the leg dangling, like it's hinged), did any bone breach the skin, are you 100% sure this little guy's legs were aligned and OK before the mishap, did the vet do an xray, you say it would cost $1000 to fix, what was he going to do for this amount?

Karyn


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Flutterbug, can you tell us exactly when this accident happened, is there an obvious break (is the leg dangling, like it's hinged), did any bone breach the skin, are you 100% sure this little guy's legs were aligned and OK before the mishap, did the vet do an xray, you say it would cost $1000 to fix, what was he going to do for this amount?
> 
> Karyn


Hi Karyn,
Thank you first for your response. This happened Saturday night and what happened was Flutter was in his cage setting on top the washer,when the dog swiped it off with his paw, the cage fell to the floor about 3ft. I got him out of the cage assessed him and noticed the foot/leg to be kicked out to the side and no grip to the foot. No bone poking out, and it wasn't dangling. When calling the vet and telling the situation that was a verbal quote over the phone also with the possibility of euthanasia which is NOT what I want to happen! So we did as suggested and put him in a shoe box with heating pad and rest. I've been making sure he's eating, drinking, pooping and he's not puffed nor does him seem distressed. When I check on him and it's feeding time he's happy to see me and chirps and flutters his wings with excitement. But when he's down to eat he will not put any pressure on that foot. He kinda has a lean to him as he sits. As to before this incident, he walked around fine, flew fine and could grip onto the perch fine. Thanks for reading this.....FB


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Do you think you could take a few more photos of him, holding him so your index and forefinger are on each side of his head, the rest of the fingers grasping around the body, turning him so his feet are facing out and get a few shots of his legs, straight on. Can you also do a very slow and through exam of the bad leg feeling for a break, use your thumb, index and forefinger, brought together, to slowly make your way up and down the leg, apply gentle pressure, feeling for irregularities, you have a good leg to make comparisons, also look at all his joints for swelling or dislocation. If you gently pull on the leg, while in you hand is it limp or does he pull back, try the good leg first for a comparison.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds more like a dislocated Leg.


Trouble is, it is very hard to find a competent Avian Vet, or, any Vet competent do deal with issues which can effect Birds.

$1,000.00 to correct a just got dis-located Leg, or, to evaluate, stabalize, and properly splint a simple fracture, is beyond outrageous.

If someone knows what they are doing, correcting a disloction takes about three seconds.

Correctly evaluating and then Splinting a simple Fracture, maybe two to five minutes.


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Yes, Karyn I can. Give me a lil while to do this, and I'll post as soon as I have. 
Thank you, Suz


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Sounds more like a dislocated Leg.
> 
> 
> Trouble is, it is very hard to find a competent Avian Vet, or, any Vet competent do deal with issues which can effect Birds.
> ...


Do you know of a such Avian Vet in the Inland Empire?


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Hows this? The foot that he's curling up and clenching is the foot in question.

Thanks a million.... FB


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

flutterbug said:


> Do you know of a such Avian Vet in the Inland Empire?


Even if you wanted to take this guy to a vet, there may be some issues with this ,as this is not a pigeon, but a dove, what kind, I am not too sure of, but many doves are protected under federal wildlife laws and vets are not supposed to treat wildlife, and you probably may be referred to a wildlife facility or licensed rehabber.

Karyn


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

It's not normally scrunched up like that. He only did that cause he did not care for the way I was holding him. His grip with that foot is getting stronger.

In feeling his legs they kinda feel the same??? But...it does almost feel like it's dislocated at the hip-joint area. 

Hard to really feel anything cause he does not like being "examined" as much as he likes to be held and loved on. 

Never had a bird before to really know what things are supposed to feel-look like.


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Even if you wanted to take this guy to a vet, there may be some issues with this ,as this is not a pigeon, but a dove, what kind, I am not too sure of, but many doves are protected under federal wildlife laws and vets are not supposed to treat wildlife, and you probably may be referred to a wildlife facility or licensed rehabber.
> 
> Karyn


That does not sound good. What should I do with this Lil guy? I've grown VERY attached to him (and I think him me) and would rather give him a home and lovin than have him not make it in the wild.

He was almost dead when I found him. Keeping him is far better than releasing, no?

I was-is-am planning on keeping Flutter. I'm a little emotional right now in regards to him.

The past few weeks has been setting my alarm clock numerous times through the night to give him a new warm pack and take care of him in general just like a Lil baby.

Thanks, FB


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

flutterbug said:


> It's not normally scrunched up like that. He only did that cause he did not care for the way I was holding him. His grip with that foot is getting stronger.
> 
> In feeling his legs they kinda feel the same??? But...it does almost feel like it's dislocated at the hip-joint area.
> 
> ...


Most people that come here don't know a whole lot, so don't worry. In situations like this most times it's only one leg or wing injured, so you have a perfectly good one to feel and make comparisons to and go back and forth. If you can find no break in the tarsometatarsus (lower leg section above the foot) or the tibiotarsus (next leg section up), then this may mean his issues lay in the femur or hip. The hip joint in birds if really pretty strong and many times what people think is a dislocation of the hip in a bird, is actually a broken femur, and locating a break in the femur is not that easy to do by hand, even for experienced hands, and is best done through an xray.

If you gently pull on it what happens?... does he offer a bit of resistance and pull back? or does he just let you keep it extended?

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Try a few more images, holding him from behind, so he is vertical, and, in a way where the Legs will be easy for us to see in the images...so the Legs are sticking out horozintally.

While you are doing this, very gently sort of shake him, side to side, up and down, and, see if the effected Leg appears to move differently than the un-effected Leg...don't shake him hard or fast of course, just a sort of gentle brief shake, just enough for the dangling Legs to move a little, so you can see if the effected one appears loose or rubbery or moves in ways or in any way, moves differently than the good Leg.

Otherwise, yes, as Karyn mentions, many Vets would feel obliged to confiscate the Bird, since it is a Native Species type of Dove, and, typically they merely euthenize it then, rather than to care for it or give it the attentions it needs...it is just a screwed up sitations when it comes to Native Specie Birds and Vets, and the laws Vets are supposed to operate under.

Which basically, are about how no one without a special Licence is allowed to 'posess' any Native Species Birds, even ones which are legal to Hunt and kill or poison by the thousands, where it is okay then to posess dead ones, which one has killed, but illegal to render aid or care for one or to keep one in any manner.

It is nuts, but, that is the way it is.


Morning Doves are definitely very charming Birds, and, I am very fond of them.

I just had one recently who had a badly broken Leg, and, long story short, everything healed up perfecty and one would never know anything had ever happened.

They are wacky, and, as they mature, they get wackier in one way or another.

And every one is a distinct individual, with their own personal kind of wackyness.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Suz, in case it's later when you get back to your thread here, I want you to try a few things for now (outside of letting us know if you found and beaks in the lower parts of his leg). One is to get a small hand towel, roll it into a donut, tape the ends together at the right size and see if FB will sit in this "nest", place water and seed dishes with east beak reach and confine this to a 12" x12" box, or so, On the chance it is a femur break confining a bird to a small cage/space, where he is forced to rest the leg (this may take a few weeks) the leg should heal up on its own. 

Here is an example of a donut set up: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=467722&postcount=6

I am going to post some information on broken legs and setting them and I am going to PM and email the person who wrote the post to have a look in on your thread, his name is Pidgey and we rely on him a lot for these kind of things.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=571494&postcount=5

Karyn


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Most people that come here don't know a whole lot, so don't worry. In situations like this most times it's only one leg or wing injured, so you have a perfectly good one to feel and make comparisons to and go back and forth. If you can find no break in the tarsometatarsus (lower leg section above the foot) or the tibiotarsus (next leg section up), then this may mean his issues lay in the femur or hip. The hip joint in birds if really pretty strong and many times what people think is a dislocation of the hip in a bird, is actually a broken femur, and locating a break in the femur is not that easy to do by hand, even for experienced hands, and is best done through an xray.
> 
> If you gently pull on it what happens?... does he offer a bit of resistance and pull back? or does he just let you keep it extended?
> 
> Karyn


Ok sorry it took awhile..... I was also giving him dinner and some lovin  When I gently pulled on the leg he didn't give alot of resistance, just a smidge. I gently massaged the leg and the toes and he was just relaxed and let me rub on his toes for a bit there was some wiggling and flexing/curling of them, but without any distress. I don't know if that helps...... I want so badly to help him, but I don't want to hurt him in the process..... Because he does like to fly when i get him out of the shoe box and I'm worried that he might hurt his foot/leg more and or also his wings? I don't know, I'm just beside myself (I guess) However, I also saw your post about the doughnut shape with towel and I will use that tonight. Again, Thank you for your help and guidance through this...... I want him to heal up and be able to walk around again and am trying my best to do what you suggest in order to have that happen. Until tomorrow, thanks again and g'nite.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi flutterbug,


Please see my Post above, Post #21.


Yes, no flying for the time being for this one.


Might be the Thigh Bone which is broken, and, this long Bone is under the skin, on their side, and, originates on the side of the small of their Back.


It is hard to imagine how a Dove could break a Thigh Bone, but, if that is what happened, what appears to be the Leg will show no indications of a break, since the Thigh Bone is further up, and, situated in a way where one might not ever guess it was even there at all.

The Thigh Bone being beneath their Skin, is much harder to examine or feel, since, of course, their Skin is covered in Feathers...so it is hidden in it's way...and inacessable.

The only regimen for a broken Thigh Bone, is to use the 'Do Nut' or some variation of it, as Karyn described ( this usually has to be fussed with, made oval, made into a "U", or as may be, to suit the particular Bird's comfort ) so the Bird can remain sitting comfortably, with their Legs in a normal position and folded beneath them, and so the l\Broken Thigh Leg can be in a decent enough align and not crooked or off to the side...and to have their Seed and Water Bowls within easy reach of their Beak.

They rest in this way then for a couple weeks or so, three weeks maybe, during which time, the broken Bone will knit and be healing...thereafter, they will limp a while, and, it can take some time before they can really use that Leg much or put weight on it.



Phil
Lv


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Hi flutterbug,
> 
> 
> Please see my Post above, Post #21.
> ...


Yes, Phil I did see your previous post, but I thought it was too late to respond...... I do have Flutter in on the doughnut now and with all the movement he was doing for previous pics I decided to let him rest tonight. He does seem to be comfy in the doughnut and I'm just hoping with the help, advice, and guidance of Karyn and yourself we can get him back to normal in due time. Thank you and I will update tomorrow. Until then, g'nite


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds good...

Also, Post some good close up poop images every other day..so we can keep an eye on that. Stress can sometimes make for some common illnesses springing up.

Keep an eye on the poops and on their eating, making sure to notice if they are eating less or pooping less, and, let us know off and on how that is going.

Best wishes!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, he doesn't appear to me to have broken it. If he had, he'd be down and want to stay down as long as food and water weren't a problem. That is, wild pigeons with broken legs have no choice whatsoever than to go where the food and water are and make the best of it. They'll usually stay in one place (generally home) for a few days before they start getting out, though. Domestic birds that break a leg and who consider us family usually won't even bother to try to stand for quite awhile most of the time.

That said, I'd tend to think more that it was just hurt in the fall with the associated pain of a sprain or something like that. They can dislocate them but they usually look worse when they do.

Pidgey


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Pidgey said:


> Well, he doesn't appear to me to have broken it. If he had, he'd be down and want to stay down as long as food and water weren't a problem. That is, wild pigeons with broken legs have no choice whatsoever than to go where the food and water are and make the best of it. They'll usually stay in one place (generally home) for a few days before they start getting out, though. Domestic birds that break a leg and who consider us family usually won't even bother to try to stand for quite awhile most of the time.
> 
> That said, I'd tend to think more that it was just hurt in the fall with the associated pain of a sprain or something like that. They can dislocate them but they usually look worse when they do.
> 
> Pidgey


Yeah, you might be right. Our parakeet sprained her legs when we first got her and she was still a baby. She looked pathetic, crawling around with her beak and wings when we couldn't stop her in time. It took her a week or two, but slowly she gained more movement. We had to really watch to be sure she got plenty of food and water, since perching and walking were hard for her. Now she's happy and climbing all over the place with tons of hyper energy.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks Pidgey, as always. So Suz, just confine this little guy to a smaller cage/box to restrict movement for a while to give things a chance to heal, so he doesn't make things worse with his trying to fly, with bad landings. Rest him up, food and water and let's see how he is doing in a few days.

Karyn


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

pdpbison said:


> Sounds good...
> 
> Also, Post some good close up poop images every other day..so we can keep an eye on that. Stress can sometimes make for some common illnesses springing up.
> 
> ...


Hi Phil,
Ok will do. He seemed to like the dough nut as more of a toliet than a place to rest, as it had about six droppings in it this morning. Other than that he seems to be doing well. I will keep all posted as I get pics and have updates. And again thanks for all of your help and advice. Enjoy your day  Suz


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Pidgey said:


> Well, he doesn't appear to me to have broken it. If he had, he'd be down and want to stay down as long as food and water weren't a problem. That is, wild pigeons with broken legs have no choice whatsoever than to go where the food and water are and make the best of it. They'll usually stay in one place (generally home) for a few days before they start getting out, though. Domestic birds that break a leg and who consider us family usually won't even bother to try to stand for quite awhile most of the time.
> 
> That said, I'd tend to think more that it was just hurt in the fall with the associated pain of a sprain or something like that. They can dislocate them but they usually look worse when they do.
> 
> Pidgey


Hi Pidgey 
Thank you for looking at my post and offering your assistance as well  Yes he is doing well about resting and I'm using all of the advice I'm receiving. I'm so glad to hear the possibility of a sprain, because he has put weight on it and has used his gripping action on my finger. So bed rest for Lil Flutter and I will continue to post with updates. Again, thank you for your help also  Suz


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Suz, in case it's later when you get back to your thread here, I want you to try a few things for now (outside of letting us know if you found and beaks in the lower parts of his leg). One is to get a small hand towel, roll it into a donut, tape the ends together at the right size and see if FB will sit in this "nest", place water and seed dishes with east beak reach and confine this to a 12" x12" box, or so, On the chance it is a femur break confining a bird to a small cage/space, where he is forced to rest the leg (this may take a few weeks) the leg should heal up on its own.
> 
> Here is an example of a donut set up: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=467722&postcount=6
> 
> ...


Hi Karyn,
I put Flutter in the doughnut last nite and he seemed to like it just fine. Then this morning, I found that he ended up using it as a toilet. None the less, he is resting in his shoe box and not flying around. Thank you for getting the assistance of Pidgey also. I will keep all of you posted with updates as to his progress, usually in the evening time. And again, Thank you so much for helping me with my baby  Until later on..... enjoy your day. Suz


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## flutterbug (May 30, 2011)

Libis said:


> Yeah, you might be right. Our parakeet sprained her legs when we first got her and she was still a baby. She looked pathetic, crawling around with her beak and wings when we couldn't stop her in time. It took her a week or two, but slowly she gained more movement. We had to really watch to be sure she got plenty of food and water, since perching and walking were hard for her. Now she's happy and climbing all over the place with tons of hyper energy.


Hi Libis
Thank you for also responding and offering your help due to your situation. I'm so glad to hear that your lil one healed up fine and is living the life! I am hoping and praying that my situation will have the same outcome.  And I will keep updates on Flutter for y'all to see on a daily basis. Until then, Suz


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, they will of course relieve themselves in their donut, easy clean up, especially for doves, you can also place a piece of paper towel under where the donut sits to assist with this. Yes, rest him up and keep us updated.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suz,


Does your little Dove get Grit? And or any supplimental Viatmins?


Poop images?

Anyway, yes, might well be a Sprain or a pulled Muscle and not a broken Bone. Fine with me! Lol...and likely a lot easier on you two, also!


Sprains or Pulled Muscles/Tendons can still take Weeks to resolve...so...these things can take some time before the Bird is back to their old self again.


So...occasional 'Hand Nest', and, now and then watch a few more segments of 'Winged Migration' together and other fun stuff.



Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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