# Help Needed For Canada Pigeon



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi All,

A member of the Starling-Talk board rescued this pigeon last night and took it to a vet today. The vet didn't know a whole lot and put the bird on Baytril. I'm pretty sure this is a massive canker growth. Anyway, I'm waiting for her to send me her phone # and location (I think she is in Toronto but not sure). Once I have this information, I would be grateful for any of our members who could have a look at this bird confirm what is wrong, and if it is canker help her (Kate) to find canker meds for the bird.

http://www.rims.net/KatesPigeon.jpg

Thanks in advance!

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If she's in Toronto then she needs Jaz.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I PMed and emailed Jaz for a heads-up. I'll try to call, too.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Pidgey said:


> If she's in Toronto then she needs Jaz.
> 
> Pidgey


Agreed .. she's not in Toronto but close enough to drive there tomorrow. I don't have a phone # for Ron .. if you do and don't think Ron would mind, could you please PM it to me?

Does it look like canker to you?

Terry


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Pidgey, just called me, Terry I will PM you my number. You can pass it on to her and have her call me if she needs my assistance.

Ron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

jazaroo said:


> Pidgey, just called me, Terry I will PM you my number. You can pass it on to her and have her call me if she needs my assistance.
> 
> Ron


Thanks, Ron! Have done so!

Terry


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

I spoke with Kate and she is going to bring the bird to me tomorrow. She sounds like a truly caring person, she lives in London Ontario, a couple of hours away from Toronto, and is going to have to rent a car in order to bring the bird. 

The bird, outside of the growth issues, sounds in very poor condition, T keel bone and not much strength to walk. The good news is, on Terry's instructions, she managed to get some baby bird formula into this little guy and has been supplementing him with Pedialyte.

I will keep you informed.

Ron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Ron! Dang! I had completely forgotten that she has to rent a car. I feel terrible about that but glad that she is bringing the bird to see you. I'm pretty sure she would not be able to get the vet care/advice needed where she is. She was willing to go to the emergency clinic tonight with the bird, but I told her no as we had bought some time by her being able to feed the bird successfully.

I'll be watching for your update when you have a chance after seeing the bird tomorrow.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Poor Jaz... he was trying to have a quiet evening and I just blustered in and said, "off your ****, Jaz, get online and figure out how to get that bird!"

He didn't have a snowball's chance in... an oven!

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Good luck Ron..!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Terry that sure in the heck looks like canker to me, and real bad too. Poor baby I feel so bad when birds get this ill. Takes a lot on the finder and the healer. I am very happy she has taken the time in her heart to help out she is a real sweetheart. 

Cindy


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Well, Kate made the drive from London, Ontario today and brought the bird to me. It was great meeting her, she is a very kind soul and we spent a few hours together talking and ended up calling for pizza for dinner and she is now on her way back home.

The bird itself weighed in at 238 grams and Kate said the bird, she named him Cole, had improved in the last 24 hours. She said the the swelling was reduced and he was brighter after the hydration and feeding he has been receiving, plus the Baytril the vet prescribed, she had done a good job at keeping him going. I think he has a few issues going on, I do think he has Canker and this has allowed for a bacterial infection as well to take hold as well. 

To tell you the truth, I have never had a bird with Canker like this, the few birds I have had that had it, where pretty classic cases of cheesy growths in the mouth, that cleared up readily with metronidazole. I remember Cynthia saying for advance cases she uses both Spartrix and Metronidazole, so that's what I have started treatment with. Also, I made up a solution of Cipro, Metronidazole, Colloidal Silver and DMSO and painted this onto all of the crust that was on the outside, and some inside of his mouth. The brush I was using was a very soft paint brush, and after I went to give it another coat coat after a few minutes, the crust just started to kind of melt away inside his mouth and at the side as well, revealing at one area healthy looking tissue underneath, and at another part, a yellowish growth underneath.

He can't seem to manage with seeds right now so I removed them and have water alone with him. I feed him 12cc of Kaytee, and will do so every couple of hours through the day until he can manage to feed himself again. I am cautiously optimistic for him and he is comfortable in a "donut" and seems content for now. I am not sure what other issues he may have, as he cannot stand well and I am unsure if he can fly. I will know better I hope next week, as his strength increases and the infections subside.

I will keep you updated,

Ron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WELL DONE, KATE!! Bless your heart for making the trip to bring Cole to Ron! KUDOS!!

And Ron, I'm sure that Cole couldn't be in better hands! I know you will do all you can to help him. We will anxiously await positive updates!!

Love and Hugs to you and Kate and VERY special scritches to Cole along with WARM HEALING THOUGHTS!!

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 


I had one years ago I named 'Okemo' who had some terrible Canker top and bottom Jaw area...he lost his whole Beak, it was already hanging on by but some few threads, upper and lower, and when all was said and done, all he had left was a little mouth and his Nares and somehting of his Jaw hinge part...I had a Vet at the time who did a little surgery soon after I got him. Everything healed up well...and really he looked very cute even, once one accepted it.

After some practice, and me and my girlfriend at the time wirking with him, he ate by himself just fine, this was after lots of Seed-Pops of course...and he had to learn to peck 'farther' that he had been used to.


Other nasty ones similar to yours, kept their Beaks just fine, and healed up fine. All I had in those days was Emtryl, but I was sure glad I had it.

I was thinking this looked like infection on top of Canker, and I am very glad to hear so-far, so good...


Golly...


Hopeing for a Happy Beak on a Happy Bird here before too long..!



Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Many, many thanks to Ron and Kate for seeing that this pigeon can and is getting the care he needs. I was getting worried when I hadn't seen either of you post, but now I understand that you were busy treating the pigeon and eating pizza  

I'll look forward to the future updates, Ron.

Terry

PS: I never thought of using DMSO on a canker or pox type growth .. have you done that before? Something in your cocktail of meds sure seems to have had a pretty immediate effect.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 




Yes, tell us more about the DMSO please?


I Bought a bottle quite a while ago and forgot I had it.

It helps carry topical medicines or other 'into' and through the Skin barriers, yes?


Good luck with this fellow!


Phil
Las Vega


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Phil, you have it exactly right, it acts as a carrier across membranes. I think a link would be the best idea to explain what DMSO can do. There is a ton of information on it if you search; DMSO + antibiotics, but this is a good start:

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/herschler.htm

Terry, I have read references in one or more of the avian medicine books I have of using DMSO to carry, antibiotics, or anti-fungals, into a site that is infected, where there is a question of how good the blood supply to the area is, it can even be used as an adjunct in nebulized treatments. I am not too concerned about the blood supply to the area, but I felt I wanted to get some meds right on the sight and have it penetrate, and not just sit there on top. I don't use much, usually less than 5% of any solution, and the remaining fluid part, almost always colloidal silver.

Thanks for the encouraging words,

Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron,



This is very interesting, and I am very glad you brought it up for us to start thinking about and researching and brain-storming about.


The DSMO could maybe help in some of those tedious Wing 'Boils', below the skin Abcesses, and who knows what all else, which are otherwise hard for the medicines to reach via normal channels.



Anyway, far as your present Bird goes, I have not had any in that ball-park in quite some time, but I think it can help them immensely, concurrent with their meds of course, to be tube fed ( extant Beak or lower mandible strength permitting one's opening and closeing it and so on, under the circumstances)...

...tube fed formulas along the likes of the one I outlined for Alice, Reti's present Bird of concern...but a little higher protean-wise in your's case of course.

This nourishes their immune system nicely, to help them deal with the troubles at hand from within...

...where, the matter of their immune system having been poorly nourished, we may suppose to probably be the 'usual' underlieing variable in their having got sick or sick bad, in the first place...for us to find or be given them to be helping them ammend the illness.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Phil, over the years, I have at times used DMSO not only on our pets and rescues, but on myself and family members and always been pleased with the results. I would venture to say, for the last 20 years I have always had a bottle of it in the house, it works wonders on sprains and strains as well, just be careful when using it to dilute it down with some distiled water for these, I usually use about a 50/50 mixture for sprains/strains.

I did take note of the recipe you posted for Alice and plan on making a trip to the health food store today to pick up a few ingredients I am missing and using it for Cole.

All the best,

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One of the things that I'd read in the books about the nebulized treatments like I got for Unie was that they often used DMSO and vasodilaters as well. In fact, they only used the Gentamicin with the saline on Unie. I inquired about this to Dr. Welch and he said they're not going with the extra drugs for that kind of thing because it ultimately caused more problems than it helped. His reply was a general statement but I have to think you really need to watch it with DMSO. 

Also, my dad told me that there are other dangers with using DMSO--you don't want to get it on you in such a way that it might later carry something unanticipated into your bloodstream. That is to say that its use can be as dangerous as its benefits if you're not careful. If you've gotten some on your fingers, for instance, and then later touch something with a chemical on it that you may not have even known was there, it can be real bad. That's a very broad spectrum of possibilities, by the way, from an acute poisoning all the way to having brought a carcinogen (think of a petro-chemical) into your system.

So, get _very_ well educated on the stuff before you start using it.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Pidgey's right on his precautions on DMSO, that's why I mentioned using distilled water, but should have elaborated on why and also gave some warnings on being scrupulous on only putting it clean skin with no previous applications of topical lineaments, anti-inflammatories or other topical meds that you do not intend to have carried cross membranes and into the blood stream, plus washing your hands immediately after any use, first rinsing well with water before using soap. Thanks for the look-out Pidgey.

Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Also, my dad told me that there are other dangers with using DMSO--you don't want to get it on you in such a way that it might later carry something unanticipated into your bloodstream. That is to say that its use can be as dangerous as its benefits if you're not careful. If you've gotten some on your fingers, for instance, and then later touch something with a chemical on it that you may not have even known was there, it can be real bad. That's a very broad spectrum of possibilities, by the way, from an acute poisoning all the way to having brought a carcinogen (think of a petro-chemical) into your system.
> 
> So, get _very_ well educated on the stuff before you start using it.
> 
> Pidgey



Hi Pidgey, 


Yes, supposedly, the KGB and CIA et al uses it with other chemicals/poisons to coat steering wheels, door knobs,umbrella handles or other in anticipation of a particular recipient's hand's perspiration activating it on contact. Which suggests, if true, that even once dry, the combination can remain potentially vital once rehydrated or otherwise able to migrate.


So yes, we would do well to be especially careful not to have or get any on our hands, to then innocently come in contact with other chemicals which it then would bring 'in' to our systems...for sure...

Good mention...

Phil
Las Vegas


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All

Need some help and suggestions.

Cole was doing well, still is in many respects, but a major issue just developed with his beak. The growth on his beak has healed from a weepy, pussy growth, to a dried-up, hard hollow sounding growth, quite a contrast to the original photo on the first page. The canker from what I can see is pretty well cleared up, but now the major problem.

At the beginning of his beak where it attaches to his head, has let go today. I am afraid it was diseased flesh that was holding it on and with the infection and canker healing there was nothing to hold it in place. When it fell away it kind of just hung down, as the infection and canker on the other side was minor, if any, and is almost back to normal. I had some Vetabond, so as a temporary solution I bonded the dead part back in place to keep his mouth closed better. The shininess you see in the second photo is just some glycerine I painted around the inside of his mouth to keep it moist. I put an arrow indicating the area that I bonded it back at. What's to be done?

Thanks,

Ron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ron, that is a terriffying situation, remember I went through this a year ago with Lucky Dove? She is ended up with a scissored beak.
I was afraid the beak would fall off eventually, but thankfully it didn't. After the canker healed it took about two months for the beak to stabilize and then the healthy tissue started growing back an now the beak is as stable as a normal one although scissored.
The Vetabond should keep the beak in place, only thing I am wondering is, will it interfere with normal tissue growth?

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tricky. I think I'd install an external stiffener (glued on) to try and keep it in place and hope for more eventual tissue granulation. Sure would be nice to find an orthodontic surgeon who'd work on this guy.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks for the replies.

My post lacked a few details, as I was running late in getting my granddaughter back home, they were going out to dinner, and I was in a bit of a rush.

In the photo with the arrow, the area that is beige/brown, about 1/4", is where it is like it was cut clean. No bleeding, nice and pink and health looking tissue granulation, on the good side. Inside of the mouth, now pink and health looking as well. Pidgey, I am just not quite clear on how I am going to get the beak reattached to the rest of the beak, as where it separated, it did so because the healthy tissue closed and sealed itself from the diseased tissues, hence the "letting go". I can spend a little time getting it more firmly stable, with the Vetabond, but I am still a little lost on making things whole again.

The other major issue for him is that he has wasted so much of his muscle mass, through privations, he cannot stand, his legs feel like twigs covered with skin, and he uses his wings to maneuver himself, albeit weakly. The good news is he has put on 10 grams and for the last few days I have been giving him physical therapy, bicycling his legs and holding his body and making him flap his wings. Today, after just two days of therapy, he was able to half lift himself on his legs for the first time that I have seen. Also, although the first photo doesn't show it, the second does much better, his eyes have brightened up a lot.

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

jazaroo said:


> Hi All
> 
> Need some help and suggestions.
> 
> ...


Ron, the humungous pox boil that Diesel had above his spine near the back of
his neck turned into a 'hard as rock' blackish growth that eventually disappeared seemingly overnight. I looked for it on one day and within two 
days when I looked for it again....it was gone. It must have fallen off and I
inadvertenly collected it and tossed it when removing a layer of paper in his 
cage.

A stiffener sounds good if you can find a way to fasten it. Can this bird articulate the mandables otherwise?

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, Jaz, let's talk turkey about that mandible and you can answer a few direct questions. First, look at these pictures:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html





Between the drawings and the picture of the underside of the mandible's structure, you can see how thin the spars are that go from the base of the mandible on either side (open triangle) to the tip of the beak. I cannot tell by what you've said so far for sure whether the right spar of the mandible is dissolved rendering the entire beak wobbly to the point of being easily broken clean off, or whether it's just all that dead, outer flesh that's falling off.

I guess answer that question and we'll try to go from there.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

> A stiffener sounds good if you can find a way to fasten it. Can this bird articulate the mandables otherwise?


I am going to reinforce what I have already done tomorrow, and this will aid in a temporary ,although far from perfect fix for the moment, but as I said before, even though I will join them against one another, I am still not clear how I am going to get the diseased side to knit to the healthy side and make whole the beak gain. As Reti mentioned, and wasn't at first fixing, or maybe just a bit, his beak has now scissored about 1/8" and he has some articulation, although I am not sure to what extent, since the right side is now not joined really correctly and I don't want to mess with it too much, as I might undo the bond I made.



> I cannot tell by what you've said so far for sure whether the right spar of the mandible is dissolved rendering the entire beak wobbly to the point of being easily broken clean off, or whether it's just all that dead, outer flesh that's falling off.


Thanks Pidgey, yes this is what has happened, the mandible is dissolved, the right side of the beak was hanging down and wobbly, until I Vetabonded it back.

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, they're working on a new technique for cancer patients who have lost part of the lower mandible--they're stretching some of the flesh across (that's a really vague description) and it's hardening into bone eventually.

That said, it's not really going to help you except that there's some hope that if we can construct an external stiffener on the outside and keep it fastened in place long enough, maybe the body will redevelop a jawbone.

What I was thinking of was to work out a fairly thin plastic outer casing that goes across both sides. It'd be kinda' the equivalent of what you'd get if you painted on resin over fiberglass cloth fixing a broken place on a corvette. You just need some resin like the dentists use. That is, after all, what they use for beak replacement when a more "important" bird gets a bad beak injury.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ron, thank you so much for all you have done and are doing for Cole. What an incredibly difficult case this is. I really hope that with all the ingenuity you and our other members have that there will be a little miracle in store for Cole. I wish I had some useful advice to offer, but I don't.

Terry


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well, after a very long, and very useful, phone consultation with Pidgey we came up with a plan. The plan is not to try and do too much too soon, certainly any vet that would consent to see him right now would recommend PTS. I will work on reinforcing the beak better and not worry too much at this point for a perfect fix in this regard. The important thing right now is to work on getting Cole's strength back up, which with the condition he is in could take some time, perhaps even a month or two. In the interval, the inactive growth at the side of his beak should fall away, and when this happens it will help give a better idea of what the plan will be for a more permanent fix for him. Thanks Terry, we all do what we can.

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yeah, I think it probably will fall away....how's the feeding situation w/him?
I may have missed it but is this bird self feeding at all?

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That plan makes a great deal of sense to me, Ron and Pidgey. I think we sometimes get too carried away and try to accomplish grandiose things when what we really need is little steps working up to the ultimate goal. My vet has always been one to go with the least invasive, least traumatic, least whatever treatment that he felt might do the job, and he always says "Let us see what is going to happen". This approach used to make me crazy as I wanted pretty immediate results. Over the years, I've learned that his way works very, very well in most cases .. not all cases, for sure, but most. It's certainly a lot kinder and gentler way to go for the birds and animals.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Well, Jaz, let's talk turkey about that mandible and you can answer a few direct questions. First, look at these pictures:
> 
> http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html
> 
> ...




...or, if the actual Mandible 'Bone' is inboard, damaged appearently, but that the Keritinaceous 'sheath' is what is 'pushed' out...



Reading on from here...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jazaroo said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> <<<<snip>>>>
> 
> ...




Hi Ron, 


Those tastey ( and they are good, too!) "soups" will really help...



Best wishes...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Well, they're working on a new technique for cancer patients who have lost part of the lower mandible--they're stretching some of the flesh across (that's a really vague description) and it's hardening into bone eventually.
> 
> That said, it's not really going to help you except that there's some hope that if we can construct an external stiffener on the outside and keep it fastened in place long enough, maybe the body will redevelop a jawbone.
> 
> ...



Hi Pidgey, 


Yes, or even some expedient rightly formed thing laying around the house, of the right size, like Half-a-Canoe sort of, or a mid-section of a Canoe...or something which is thermoplastic, whcih can be formed nicely with some heat and bending...to be glued on of course, if the pushed-out part can be dealt with for such a thing to be fitted...


When 'Crow Baby' was first brought to me, his Beak injury and so on...I was SO proud of him learning to peck so soon, because I was afraid to tube feed him for fear of stressing his frail Beak.

With him it was the upper Beak...


With yours there Ron, I suppose if one were careful, and held the lower one deep at it's root area, it could be managed allright...especially of you can hold, and someone else run the 'tube' and so on...


Is this what you are doing?




Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Another...(Views of Skull and Mandibles variously...)


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/469522890oHJDLd


Phil
l v


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Fp, no, since I have had him, and even before with Kate who bought him to me, he has had to be maintained. When first he arrived here, he tried to eat some seeds, but could not manage, as because of the growth, most of his passage way was restricted.

Phil, thanks for all of the feedback, and the photo links where useful as well. Yes, he is getting his nutritious soups of Kay-Tee, with some Goji berry juice added and also some "green" food powder. 



> With yours there Ron, I suppose if one were careful, and held the lower one deep at it's root area, it could be managed allright...especially of you can hold, and someone else run the 'tube' and so on...


With him I am using a stainless steel crop needle. I initially chose it over my regular "soft" feeding tube because originally there was not much of a passage way because of the canker and the SS one slid down to his crop quickly and easily and required the least amount of beak opening to do so. Now this is even more important, as I can get the SS in, down and him feed in about 5-6 seconds, with very little opening of the beak. What I do is I put my forefinger finger on the very tip of his upper beak and gently lift, with my index and thumb controlling his head, this gives me enough space to slip the needle in and down, quite efficiently, without stressing the lower beak much at all. I expect in the future, as he starts feeling more well, not stressing his lower beak will be more of an issue, as I suppose he will start to resist/fight more.

My goal now is to get him walking, starting with getting him to at least be able to stand on his own. He really is a sweet little bird, and I am hoping for the best for him. Although this morning he does not seem as bright as the last few days, I get the sense he realizes he has suffered a real setback.

Ron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 




Glad the feedings are so elegant..! 

I have never ONCE been so svelt and smooth as that..! Even if they would say "ahhhh" I would not be so slick at it.

Lol...



I am sure he is grateful for being fed...and aside from his condition, he is entirely getting-it that being fed is very welcome and satisfying right now.


I have one presently who from some wierd sicknesses, had been in very bad shape, weighed like crumpled paper, dim eyes, open Beak breathing...laying on the ground...and I started tube feeding these 'Soups' to her/him, but I should have started a lot sooner, so shame on me.


This Pigeon HATED me from the onset of my getting them...the minute I picked them up off the ground they hated me with a passion...no matter how many 'Secret Masonic Handshakes' and onsequies and other things I tried, this Bird attacked me and bit me and Wing Slapped and made noises at me far more than I have ever seen any do before...puffing and bristleing with rage and so on. This was possibly THE worst 'Wiggle Worm' ever as for me doing the 'Burrito-Bird' thing and getting a Pill or tube-meds down their throat. They HATED it. They were too weak to hardly stand, yet they would rally for that..!

I just did not feel they were eating enough on their own, and they had been eating on their own from the first, so I decided to augment their self-feeding.

Well, after these by now several tube feeds of nice 'Soups', he/she has mellowed enormously, and when in the 'Burrito-Bird' mode, held upright between my knees, there is a truely happy look of expectancy and brightness and calm anticipation of being fed...no more 'Wiggle Worm' at all, and only light indignations or light 'token' Wing-Slaps or threats to me when I ask them or tell them, "Hey Sweetie, it's Pill-Time/Soup-Time! Whatcha say, are you ready?" and so on, to then reach into their Cage and get them rounded up...in fact, they now come to my hands, do a few mild rebukes, and basically just stand there to let me pick them up now, instead of how it had been before - a Winged 'Banshee'.





So, they like it, when they do...and sometimes, they do!

I am sure yours does...! 


I would absolutely also add a three inch 'squig' of "Nutrical to his ( Cole's ) day's formula.

Making the day's batch...and freezing between uses actually hydrates it superbly so one actually has to add more Water as the day goes by...which I would sauy makes for an easier time in the Crop, and, easier digestion.


The "Nutrical" is a very important ingredient for these kinds of situations...or any time we have a frail Pigeon or one who is seriously ill or injured and had lost serious weight, and is frail...or, any time at all, really...


"Nutrical"...


And as for the Goji-Berry Juice, don't be shy to add lots, plenty...a whole bunch...at least one running-over AND heaping Tablespoon full for the day's formula...or more even.


What I want to see now with my present 'frail' one ( in addition to the vestigual symptoms of their illness going away the rest-of-the-way, ) is 30-odd 'decent' poops-a-day...or more.


And, now that this one is getting stronger and all round 'better' by far, if this means I tube-feed them five times a day, 15 or 20 CCs or whatever they can handle easily for their size and condition, then I recon I best do so. I was just doing 15 CCs once-a-day, but I will step them up now. And soon, if all goes well, they will be pecking plenty and I can lay off the 'tube' and they will finish catching up on their own.



What all meds are happenning for Cole presently Ron?


And do you suppose he has something else beside Canker which might bear some singleing out for attention?




Best wishes..!


Phil
Las V


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Phil, I really appreciate your taking the time to help me get his nutrition right.

At present, I have him on 2 daily feedings of 15cc of "soup", I had him on three, but cut back because I had a feeling this was just too much for his frail body to handle right now. There is a fine balance, I think, when they are in this condition of getting just the right balance of not only the proper food, but in the right amounts, so their energy is not spent just digesting food, but at rebuilding the body. In time I will increase back to 15c[email protected], but that may not be for a few weeks, but I hope less, then shoot for [email protected] Thanks for the tip on Nutrical, and I was giving him about the amount you recommend in Goji juice in his meals.

To tell you the truth, at present, I don't think he has an active infection of any sorts going, but last night in my discussions with Pidgey we decided to keep him on his meds, Cipro and Metronidazole for another 7 days to be prudent. If you have ever felt a caterpillar cocoon after the butter fly has left, that is the feeling the growth at the side of his face now gives me, dead and mostly hollow. Also, I did a fecal float and smear, there where no signs of worm infection or of cocci oocysts either.

He had had his physical therapy for the today, again, a bit more strength in him than yesterday, although he can not yet stand, he can sit without a tendency to roll over to the side. The beak is a real worry that I am trying my best to ignore right now and just deal with his physical strength.

All the best,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, this bird and your dedication in caring for him has really touched me and I hope and pray everything goes well for him.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Ron, this bird and your dedication in caring for him has really touched me and I hope and pray everything goes well for him.


I feel the same way and have been following this thread with great interest! I certainly hope Phil and Ron's pigeons make full recoveries!

As always, WARM HEALING THOUGHTS/HUGS/SCRITCHES TO ALL!!  

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jazaroo said:


> Phil, I really appreciate your taking the time to help me get his nutrition right.
> 
> At present, I have him on 2 daily feedings of 15cc of "soup", I had him on three, but cut back because I had a feeling this was just too much for his frail body to handle right now. There is a fine balance, I think, when they are in this condition of getting just the right balance of not only the proper food, but in the right amounts, so their energy is not spent just digesting food, but at rebuilding the body. In time I will increase back to [email protected], but that may not be for a few weeks, but I hope less, then shoot for [email protected] Thanks for the tip on Nutrical, and I was giving him about the amount you recommend in Goji juice in his meals.
> 
> ...




Hi Ron, 


Yes, quite 'so' on the how much they can handle nicely feed-wise...always a consideratiomn of judgement and 'feel' for the matter.



Do you suppose that the lower mandible bone itself is eaten away in some portion of it's length? 

Or, merely weakened, and that the Kerotinaceous sheath is pushed 'out' into ao sort of bubble or blister, out and away with no appearent loss of Bone?


There is a lot going on there Bone wise with those 'Beaks'...especially in the middle areas between the long Bones...and for all I know, if the Bone had been eaten away to have a gap, it may fill in nicely enough with some time...even as other Bones can do.


Anyway, 


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

> Do you suppose that the lower mandible bone itself is eaten away in some portion of it's length?
> 
> Or, merely weakened, and that the Kerotinaceous sheath is pushed 'out' into a sort of bubble or blister, out and away with no apparent loss of Bone?
> 
> There is a lot going on there Bone wise with those 'Beaks'...especially in the middle areas between the long Bones...and for all I know, if the Bone had been eaten away to have a gap, it may fill in nicely enough with some time...even as other Bones can do.


Phil, the way the beak completely came unhinged on the right side and the level to which it was able to hang down after doing so, shows I believe, that the canker has indeed dissolved a portion of his right mandible.

So, as I said earlier, I will for now just try and get his strength back and if this can be accomplished, then deal with how to best fix the destroyed mandible. The other thing I have to watch for now, as Pidgey warned me, is that more stress will now be put on the left mandible and there is a chance this could break at some point. So I am just taking it a day at a time right now with Cole and hoping for the best.

Ron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Phil asked me this morning how Cole was doing and I told him I would do an update, so here it is.

Yesterday, for the first time, Cole stood on his own. This was about half way through his physio, one where I hold his body and make him flap his wings, to work on his wing strength, the other where I bicycle his legs and then support his body and try to help him to stand and walk, I have been doing this for a number of days now. When I let go of the sides of his body, to sit and rest for a minute, he decided to stand on his own, and took one hesitate step forward before sitting down again.

This morning, some remarkable improvement over yesterday, he can now stand on his own, walk a little and took his first flight from the floor back up to where his box is kept. Still a lot of work to do, but it's coming. He was brought to me in an office storage box and seemed comfortable there, I did cut a large window into it, which I screened and added a heating pad for comfort, I am out of cages, so I will now go out this weekend and get him a cage with some room in it to move around. 

Photos are always nice so I am attaching a few, I like the last one, although he caught me off guard and it's a little out of focus. Well, that's it for now, I don't think I will do a post for a while on him, unless of course something major occurs, as it will just be more of the same for him, trying to get his body back to health, but the beak, as Phil would say, "oye".

All the best,

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, past the dangerous part. That's great. Just a little bit of... "work" ahead.

That's all. Just a liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit of work...

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ron, he looks great considering.
He's a lovely bird and you've done a great job with him.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ron,

What a wonderful update on Cole. He looks like he is feeling much better.

I sure appreciate the pictures and the update.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update and photos, Ron! I'm so glad Cole is doing so well. I know Kate will be thrilled with the progress as we all are.

Terry


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*That is one smart pigeon!*

Boy, he's looking so fine compared to where he was. Smart, because he was able to find some very caring people and hang in with them, and smart-looking too  He now looks like a pigeon with purpose. I love those toenail accents! I'm praying for continued great recovery for this one.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oooooo! Looking good there!


A handsome fellow, too...


Did you get the 'Nutrical' happenning in his formula?


Best wishes you two..!


Phil

Who is also out of Cages...
in...Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well, the handsome fellow took a peck at me today. bad beak and all. Yes Phil, I did add the Nutrical into his formula as well, your "recipe" seems to be working well.

All the best,

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's the top beak after all that bears the brunt of the force when it comes to pecking. Now, you certainly want to discourage him biting you because we obviously don't want him doing that. So, it'd be in his best interest to discourage any displays of negativity like pecking as well. You do that by wagging your finger at him and saying (with authority) "Bad Bird!" followed by "No, no!"

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You better not be laughing...

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Actually, I told him good boy! and said you better start wing whacking me soon, or I am going to be very disappointed.

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Seriously, dude, this is where it gets to that point that we discussed on the phone--it only gets more dangerous from here on out for that lower jaw until something really gets resolved in it structurally (which oughta' take quite awhile) or the outside gets stabilized well enough. Maybe that outer crust will stay hard enough for long enough and the glue will keep on sticking. 

Otherwise, you'll have to do something like what we discussed. I've been playing with that thought for awhile now. It'd be nice if the bubble receded enough to render a groove down the side of the mandible just underneath the normal "lip" so that you could lay the wire in there on its way to the back of mandible. Has there been any change in that bubble to this point?

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Just to let everyone know, I spoke with Pidgey at great length about Cole again this evening. We are tying to prepare for when the growth at the side of his face releases, as to what different scenarios might happen at that time, so there will be a plan(s) in place to deal with this eventuality. We discussed a number of possibilities, but they are still formative at this point, but I wanted to let you all know it's being thought about.

All the best,

Ron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Our pigeons have no idea at what great lengths people go to save them. 

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 


Glad to hear...!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti said:


> Our pigeons have no idea at what great lengths people go to save them.
> 
> Reti


Neither does humanity, Reti.

http://www.tyny.com/christmasstory.html

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great story, Pidgey. Thanks.

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well, these guys like to keep it interesting. Last night I told Pidgey I was confident that the growth was still well attached and thought it would be a week before it came off. This morning when I checked on Cole he growth had fallen off overnight. To tell you the truth, it looks better than I was actually expecting, I thought it was going to become unhinged again without the growth being Vetabonded to support it and hang down, and it's not, beak is now well scissored, but he is in good spirits.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is wonderful, Ron. I was fearing the beak would fall off. 
I guess ending up with a scissored beak is pretty common after canker, but that's ok, they do well. 
My vet said it is reversible with intervention, so maybe after it is partly healed you can reposition the beak.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ron,

I'm so glad to see this mornings pictures, the beak looks so much better, and I bet he feels better. Hopefully the scissor effect is the worst results of the canker...then.

Thanks for taking time to share the behind-the-scenes conversations and the update. I know it is time consuming but we appreciate it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Jaz,

Why don't you take a picture straight on, or maybe almost straight on but off to the side a little so we can get a better idea what that side of the beak looks like. You're probably close to running out of memory space for pictures on Pigeon-Talk so you might want to consider turning them into links, too.

Jaz called me bright and early to tell me the news, by the way.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Will do, once my wife gets home later to hold the bird for me.



> You're probably close to running out of memory space for pictures on Pigeon-Talk so you might want to consider turning them into links, too.


Well, Pidgey, I was, now that you mention it. However, yesterday I took a little time and went through all of my old posts and instead of removing the photos, I just reduced them all down to about 7-10kb, so I have plenty of room again for now. Thanks for the look-out.



> That is wonderful, Ron. I was fearing the beak would fall off.
> I guess ending up with a scissored beak is pretty common after canker, but that's ok, they do well. My vet said it is reversible with intervention, so maybe after it is partly healed you can reposition the beak.


Reti, it was in the back of my mind as well, that the beak may be in danger of falling off, glad it didn't, I can tell you that. It would be nice if intervention could at some point correct the scissoring.

Ron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Now that's one terrific update! How totally wonderful and amazing!

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Joyful news Ron. Cole is looking good. I am so happy the beak didn't come off too. I had worried about that.


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Ron,
What a wonderful job your doing and a great update. Cole is very lucky to have you. He is a beautiful pigeon. Hopefully even though he has a scissor beak in time maybe he will be able to eat on his own. I'll keep him in my prayers that he recovers.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Since Blue Bars hold a *special* place in my heart(!), I am sooo glad to hear that Cole is doing much better! 

I join my fellow members in "spirit" with Pidgey, Ron and Phil to guide them in helping Cole become the best he can be. Ron, you are doing one heck of a job!!

Cole is a fighter and a beautiful bird!

Positive updates are anticipated!  

With LOVE HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All, thanks for your kind words of support. Pidgey wanted a few more shots, so here they are.

Ron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It looks wonderful. That is how Lucky Dove's beak looked like after the canker came off. The space left behind did close up eventually. I was afraid she would end up with a hole at the corner of her beak, but it took about a month or two until she looked normal again except for the scissoring. But she copes fine with it, all she needs is a deep dish with seeds.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's in one of the books that scissoring can be slowly worked out by literally pinching the scissor to line them up. In time, it corrects, kinda' like wearing braces. Jaz'll have to tell us how much lateral stability there is in the beak at this point. What we were mostly worried about was that the underlying bone would be dissolved and that the beak would roll with any pressure. I figure that will harden if the bone was truly messed up and even feel better about it now. However, that's quite a bit of scissor so we're gonna' try straightening that out.

Pidgey


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

Hello Everyone,

My name is Kate and I'm pleased to meet you all. I just wanted to post a heartfelt thank you to everyone for contributing to Cole's recovery. Soon after I met Ron and his wife, I knew Cole was going to be in good hands ... they were kind and genuinely concerned about Cole. I'm very pleased and relieved that Cole is regaining some of his strength back. He's a special guy ... 

I look forward to following the rest of Cole's recovery ... I know the beak is still a huge concern but I have faith a solution can be found ... 

Kate


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kate! It's nice to see you here on Pigeon-Talk! Without you, Cole would not have had the remotest of chances. Thank you for being his original savior!

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Kate,

I too, add my WELCOME to the forum! AND, A HUGE THANK YOU for taking Cole to Ron!

His recovery will take time, but the prognosis is looking better all the time.

The site members are behind him all the way and we will avidly follow his progress!

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron, 



Oooo!


Nice...


Well done there Ron..!


A joy to see..!




He might be able to eat Seeds now, if the Seeds are small, and if they are in a Shot-Glass filled to the brim...


If he will abide his Beak being guided into it deeply enough, he just might get the drift to 'gobble', and if he does, he can stuff himself nicely if he takes to it. And Tube-Feeds can continue of course, to augment this...if he will 'gobble' anyway...and even if it takes a dozen trys over a few days, by golly he just might 'gobble' once he remembers he can. You can keep your ( wetted, warm ) finger tips in the sides of his beak, toward the root, so remind him of his Baby-time-tactiles. If it 'clicks', then he will love it.


Worth a try...



Now, diorthosis wise - would it make sense to begin correction now, before the Bone and other structures fill back in to be ever so much stronger?


Where...starting now, with some sort of prosthesis, or a progressive sequence of them, that would supply slight lateral pressure while matters are still rather maluable?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

Kate, As Terry has said, I think Cole's days here were numbered in hours, if not minutes, without your intervention. As I told you before, few people would have gone through the effort you did to help a Pigeon, especially one is such very poor condition, if you did not do this, he would not still be here.



> Well, it's in one of the books that scissoring can be slowly worked out by literally pinching the scissor to line them up. In time, it corrects, kinda' like wearing braces.


Pidgey, will holding his beak in line for periods of time each day be enough, are there other ways to accomplish this other than fastening? To let the rest of you know, Pidgey and I did talk about ways of doing this already, and it was decided to try a thin strip of breathable medical tape around his upper and lower beak beak to hold them in line. This was the night before his growth fell off, when I did this it worked well at lining things up and he seemed to be able to breath fine, but he would not settle down, kept shaking his head quite hard and trying to open his beak, I ended up removing it after a very short while.



> Now, diorthosis wise - would it make sense to begin correction now, before the Bone and other structures fill back in to be ever so much stronger?
> Where...starting now, with some sort of prosthesis, or a progressive sequence of them, that would supply slight lateral pressure while matters are still rather maluable?


Open to suggestions on this one. Last night, for really the first time since the growth fell off, I felt his beak. Very "rubbery" feeling, soft with lots of lateral movement. To tell you the truth, I was so happy with the amount of beak that was left and that it didn't hang down, I told Pidgey yesterday morning that I was just going to leave the darn thing alone, at least for a few days to make sure that it "set in" a bit and make sure anything that was in a delicate state, got a chance to firm up and strengthen.

As a start, today I will go back to aligning and hold lower beak in proper position for short periods of time with my fingers. Phil, I want to get him eating on his own again, and will do it the way you suggest, but I am going to give him a few more days still to let things settle in.

Anyways, that's what I am thinking this morning.

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My guess would be that it's proceeding exactly as we discussed, only a little faster than imagined. There's more flesh there than we were hoping for, it's just that the bone underneath is gelatinous or some kind of scar tissue. I guess, Jaz, that you might go ahead and consider trying the lineup tooth that we discussed installing. Since the lateral wobbliness (is that a word?) doesn't have much tension on it, that might work okay--it's worth a try.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Pidgey, I decided to retry the simplest method we talked about, a strip of thin medical tape wrapped around the end again. I have brought the beak back only about 75% of the way, as with the first time at close to 100% Cole took serious objection through hard head shaking and not settling down, so I redid it with less tension. Cole still doesn't like it, but he did settle down and stopped the head shaking, at least for the moment, so we will see how it goes.

I am figuring a few days at 75% the slowly increasing the alignment more (I am open to a suggested schedule on this), attaching a picture for reference.

Ron


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Ron,

This is a great way to force the beak to realign, but I know from what Doreen has told me it is alot of work. 

She has done the same thing, and uses surgical tape and then removes it for feeding every 4 hours to feed and water and then puts a new piece on it, and does this over and over until it holds in place by itself.

You are working alot of overtime and I appreciate all the hard work involved and I know the results will be well worth it. 

Just want to say thank you for Cole, since he can't express his thanks verbally ....at the moment.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Just want to say thank you for Cole, since he can't express his thanks verbally ....at the moment.


Lin's wanted to tape my mouth shut a few times...

Pidgey


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

I'm so glad Cole is being a good boy through all this  ... He probably knows that Ron is trying to help him ... thank you for the picture also Ron - it helps to be able to picture what is happening with the boy - BTW, can you tell whether Cole is a boy or girl ? 

Kate


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Lin's wanted to tape my mouth shut a few times...
> 
> Pidgey



I have been thinking of doing this for myself, I mean, to myself...


Lol...


Phil


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Lin's wanted to tape my mouth shut a few times...
> 
> Pidgey


Now, THERE is a provocative sentence! Golly, can't, for the life of me, understand WHY she would want to do something like that!  ME, on the other hand... 

*Kate*: While Ron may find out about Cole's gender sooner than later, he will KNOW for certain when "she" lays an egg!  

*Ron*: TERRIFIC job you are doing! The picture was worth a 1000 words! ALL of us are with you and Cole! 

Love Hugs and Scritches

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jazaroo said:


> I am figuring a few days at 75% the slowly increasing the alignment more (I am open to a suggested schedule on this), attaching a picture for reference.
> 
> Ron



Hi Ron, 


A graduated or progressive re-alignment seems most sensible to me.


And kept within his ability to tolerate it...

Probably, a lot of filling in will be happenning ove the next week, so that is your 'window' I would think. After that, it will possibly be too firm for allowing the advantages it presents for correction now.


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

> Probably, a lot of filling in will be happening over the next week, so that is your 'window' I would think. After that, it will possibly be too firm for allowing the advantages it presents for correction now.


Phil, this was my thinking as well, that's why I decided, instead of holding off another day, to start trying to correct the alignment today. After I fed Cole this morning, I had a good look at the area of concern and decided, if I was gentle, it could take some manipulation. So far so good and I will keep you all posted.

All the best,

Ron


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

Ron,

How is the other pigeon you found doing ? (the one that looked like it might have been poisoned) ...

Kate


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

The Pigeon that Kate is asking about is a different poisoned Pigeon than the one I already had in, in fact fate is a funny thing. I found this little guy at the side of the road while I was on my way home to meet Kate to accept Cole in, I took a different route than I usually take, to save some time, or else I wouldn't have found him.

Anyway, Kate the first few days where rough for him, in fact the second day he was here, I thought I was going to lose him, but he is now over the worse of it and is slowly, I mean slowly improving. Thanks for asking after him, I think he is going to be here for a while. He suffers with the same problems as the other one I have, weakness in his legs, and balance problems and based on the other one, will take sometime to resolve.

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, just want to say that Cole is so beautiful. He looks well fed, content and has lovely feathers.

You do know, don't you, that you didn't just "happen" to take that short cut when you found the 2nd poisoned pigeon. I hope all continues to go well with all three of your little guys.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Maggie, yes I know, I am at an age I am pretty well versed in the serendipitous ways of the world (especially the bird world )

Ron


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi All,

I had Cole to the Vet today and thought I should do an update.

I brought along some of the photos to help fill in the history on Cole and the vet was quite pleased with the way he has come along, he agreed a good part of the structure on the right side had been destroyed by the canker infection. He recommended I stop taping the upper and lower beaks together, the reason being is that what is happening right now is that is that the scar tissue is contracting and pulling on the beak making the scissoring worse (I won't post another pic, please refer to thread #81 for a shot of the area in question).

The vet feels taping is not enough to correct this, and in fact was offsetting the jaw line on the other side, but thankfully no damage was done, and may even have help a little at first. He recommended instead that I rub the area with a little vitamin E and then three times a day gently, but firmly work on stretching out the scar tissue. This may have to be done over a number of weeks, but he feels although there will still be a malocclusion, doing this may offer the best chance of reducing it. The vet said it's hard to say at this point how much filling in and calcification will take place in the area, we will have to wait and see.

He weighed in at 300 grams even at the vets and while he still has a number of physical strength difficulties to overcome, he is making stead progress.

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Ron, thanks for your update and I must say, pic#81 shows a well fed and feathered pij in your capable hands. Thought you might like to know of a 
particular therapy for bulging and protruding disks called Proliferation Injections.
This therapy was developed in Europe many decades ago as an alternative 
to back surgery. A solution of water and sugar is injected into the ligaments
surrounding the disk causing scar tissue to grow into the area. The patient is
then given stretching exersizes to do that include an exaggerated ROM that
essentially 'trains' the scar tissue to eventually add support to the injured area.
I know that if doable you will do it.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Ron. I'm so glad that Cole continues to do well. 

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, many thanks for this update on Cole. Will continue to remember him in my prayers. You are doing a marvelous job with him.


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

What wonderful news about young Cole ... 300 grams ! Way to go Ron and Cole ! I think he was around 230 g when I dropped him off ... thats a remarkable turnaround. Cole is very lucky to have you help him, Ron ... thank you for the update. I think of him every day ...  

Kate


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...just wanted to ask Cole how things were going...


Ron, would you type for him please?



I mean, I know they can type, mine do, but trying to read it, as being about anything I can figure out, is another story...!


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

How is our dear Cole doing, Ron ? He's been in my thoughts ...


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Kate and All,

Cole is well on his way back to being a real Pigeon. He is up to 353 grams and and this last week has started to wing slap me with authority and yesterday he started to roo-coo-coo at me, and I have to admit, when he did this it brought a smile to my face. He is flying very well now and spends most of his day now in our TV room, I am posting a photo of him on/in his space, which is high on a book shelf where he likes to roost.

He is still in his rehabilitation stage, with two areas still of concern (but not life threating in any way). The first is his beak, which is well scissored, although I am happy with the progress I am making with correcting this. While the progress is very slow and quite subtle, but it is more in line than say 10 days ago, and I will be continuing therapy on it at least for another 6-8 weeks. In the photo I attached, I have reduced it enough to get it under the limit of the forum, but still large enough to show some detail of the healing that has taken place. Here is a link to a post earlier in the thread for previous photos of his beak: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=199855&postcount=72

The other is his right leg, again it is subtle, but if you look at the photo you will notice it has not developed back quite as well as the left, as a result of the privations he suffered through while he was in his depths of sickness. He has no problems using it, but I have noticed he tends to favor it a bit (no limping or anything like that and can bear his full weight when he wing stretches), most likely as a result of this leg not feeling as strong to him as the left, so I am doing some massages/therapy on it again on it to help stimulate it a bit more.

He has a really nice social disposition and is not a nervous/flighty bird in anyway and takes my administerings to him without too much protest.

All the best,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oh Ron, just look at those beautiful shiny feathers and that face. What a difference you have made in Cole's life. His beak looks so much better. The weight is terrific - he is a big boy! Thank you so much for the update because I think of you and Cole often.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He looks so beautiful and healthy. 
You've done a wonderful job with Cole.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

WOW  !!!!!What a difference, he looks quite healthy, hopefully time and rehab will take care of the rest.

Thank you for the update.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ron,



Wow indeed..!


He sure looks good..!

He's HUGE..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Cole looks mega handsome. You have done a marvelous job helping him to heal. 

Margarret


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

DOCTOR RON!

You have done a magnificent job! Cole looks TERRIFIC! I am grinning from ear to ear like everyone else!!

THANK YOU for the update! We will look forward to future ones too, make no mistake!

LOVE HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Bravo -- what a handsome bird! Lots of hard work to bring him to this point. Congrats and may the healing continue


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a wonderful update! Cole looks terrific .. very, very well done, Ron!

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Has the mandible hardened up on that one side?

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks all for you words of support and Phil for your help with the feeding recipe.



> Has the mandible hardened up on that one side?


It has firmed up, but there is a definite gap in the middle where the bone was eaten away where there is still some play.

Ron


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Ron, You have done a beautiful job with Cole, and what a wonderful update. I'm also grinning from ear to ear.


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

Whoa !!!! I can hardly believe that is Cole !! He looks like a different bird ! His feathers are so healthy looking, he's gained an enormous amount of weight and look at those eyes !! He looks so content and proud ! 

You've done a remarkable job on young Cole. This has put a huge smile on my face today. You must be so proud of Cole and his progress, Ron.


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

Ron, how is our dear Cole doing ... ? And how is that other pigeon that looked poisoned when I was at your house ?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Ron hasn't logged on in almost a month and a half. Hasn't answered the phone in a long time, either.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

OH OH... I sure hope there is nothing wrong! Ron will usually come on line - at least periodically!!

Fingers crossed!!

Shi & Squeaks


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## dearcole (May 20, 2007)

Has anyone heard from Ron yet ? I hope everything is okay ...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I hope all is well w/Ron as well, it seems to be about 2 months coming
up since his last visit to PT. 

fp


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

I too am concerned about Ron. Do hope all is okay... but it has been quite some time since he's been online here.

Julianne


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

*I’m Back in Town*

My apologies to all for falling off so suddenly and for so long, but a family emergency arose. Well, what started off to be a two a two week trip out of the country, to visit my wife’s ailing 94 year old father, turned into two months. We had actually planned on going in the spring time, but that got put off, as I had a number of critical rescues to deal with. Word came that he was not too well so and the birds here where no longer critical, so off we went. The second week we where there he took a turn for the worse and it has been up and down with him ever since. We are back in town for just a short while and then we are scheduled to leave again. 

There is no internet access at his house so that was part of the reason for being so silent, that and although I love this board, it was stressful enough with all the family dynamics playing out, and continue to, so I needed to try and keep my mind off the pidgies for a while, plus I kept thinking we would be back long before this.

Cole is doing great, he is eating on his own from a deep dish and his beak, although not where I would like it to be, is improved. I will post new photos before too long.

Ron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

So GLAD to hear you are OK! 

And I am very sorry to hear about your family emergencies! We understand and, now we won't "panic" if we don't hear from you for awhile. Many have undergone similar situations and all understand.

Do what you have to do and post when you can...

Hugs and Scritches to Cole and I'm delighted that he's doing so well! 

Sure hope all goes well with your family! Sending HEALING THOUGHTS at this stressful time!!

With Love and Hugs

Shi & Squeaks


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Ron,

Thanks for the update.... so sorry you are having family troubles, it can be so stressful.

Please take care of yourself and your family...you and they come first.

Please take care,
Linda


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

My dear Ron

You can't imagine the PM's being done between members wondering where you were and worrying that something was wrong. I am really sorry to hear about your father-in-law's sickness. I can imagine how stressful it has been for all of you. Somehow, I felt you were out of the country but hoped it was on vacation and not this.

Thank you for letting us know and just remember how much we care for you.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Ron,
I'm sorry to hear about the situation with your father-in-law and hope things are on a more even keel. We all understand how difficult things can get with aged family. Just very glad that you are all right.

Nice to hear that Cole is progressing well 

My thoughts and hopes are with you and yours for comfort, healing, and a less stressful situation when you go back to your father-in-law's place. A special hug to your wife. 
Mary


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm very sorry your father-in-law is having such serious health problems, but very glad that you are OK, Ron. Thank you for the update on Cole .. sounds like he is doing very well indeed.

Terry


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

i was wondering how Cole is doing so far? any progress? please let us know


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