# Caring for babies / a few questions



## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Hi everyone!

I have two baby wood pigeons (TL;DR: fell out of nest, left them out to see if parents would come but was concerned about them getting cold in the stormy weather/getting eaten by a cat or a fox during the night) that I found yesterday. They're currently living in a laundry basket in my room and seem perfectly healthy with no visible injuries. I have them on towels that I'm changing daily.

They've been peeping, pooping and preening and Neve (the larger one) is just about starting to walk properly on her own, while Nell (the smaller one) is a bit behind but not by too much. I'd guess they're 12-14 days old. I planned to leave them out again to see if the parents came but the weather has stayed cold and wet and I don't fancy their chances much if left to their own devices since they can't really move a lot.

I fed them the best I had on hand for the first couple meals and I've now got them on chick crumbs soaked/mashed up in water and they're both very enthusiastic eaters once they get going. My main questions are:

*Feeding:* how much should they be eating? I'm using a syringe so I can measure how much they're given. They both ate 10cc of food earlier and looked like they wanted more but I didn't want to overfeed them. I have a hard time telling what their crop looks like in various states, especially since they're pretty wriggly. I know it varies depending on individual birds, but is there a rough guideline for how much, by volume, they should be eating based on age alone or should I weigh them and go from there?

*Bathing:* They've been preening the feathers on the wings/tops of their bodies but they've been stepping in poop, getting food on their faces and have some mess around their vents. I assume I'm ok to sit them in some warm, shallow water and give them a wipe down just to get the muck off but if anyone has tips I'm all ears.

*Releasing?* I plan on letting them back into the wild if at all possible. I live in a quiet rural area with a lot of wildlife and we always have seeds and water out for the wild birds so I expect they'll be fine in that regard, but at what point do I let them out/is the fact that they've had human contact going to complicate this? I'm pretty much just leaving them be aside from feeding them and checking their crops, but if I do have to care for them long-term I'm fully prepared to do that (weirdly enough I just recently started making plans to get some domestic pigeons next year...)

(Oh boy, I just realised this should be in the wood pigeon section under pigeon crisis. If there's anyone kicking around who can move it there that'd be great)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi, and welcome to Pigeon Talk. 
Here are some links that you will probably find helpful.


Hand Feeding Babies With Cut Off Syringe (Directions and Pictures)

http://urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1aPHzKZaQE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s5ZY3U2lKU&feature=fvwrel

PIGEON AND DOVE RESCUE (Cynthia)

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Hi, and welcome to Pigeon Talk.
> Here are some links that you will probably find helpful.
> 
> 
> ...


We've got the actual act of feeding down just fine so it's not that I need help with. That said, I did just realise that i can use the numbers on the UWS page and just work out rough feeding amounts for the next week or so from there...

Babies both ate 25cc of food this morning (I think I may actually have given Nell 30 but her crop was still squishy so I don't think it was too much for her) and I think I could safely give a little more so I might try mashing some peas and corn for them later and feeding a little bit of that as well. Neve has started walking and trying to climb up me to get at the food when I'm busy getting it from the cup to the syringe so she's going to turn into an absolute menace  Nell is less pushy about it and quieter in general but still eats like a champ once she remembers my hands mean food.

ETA: more than anything I'm just looking to double check that I'm doing things right  I've done a lot of digging for info but I like to ask people with more (& firsthand) experience to make sure I'm not missing anything.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

After feeding, just clean them up with a wet towel before the food dries and hardens. Much easier to clean it off at this time.
Here are suggestions on amounts.

For the first meal, 1ml of natural yogurt or probiotic is recommended.
For the first 24 hours, 1ml at each feeding, every 2 hours including during the night. If you miss feedings the bird will become weak very quickly.
By day 2, 2 mls will be needed at each feeding and by day 3 if they are growing well, you could be up to 5 mls. At 1 week, they should be on 15mls and will only need feeding every 6 hours. Then you can get a nights sleep. At 2 weeks of age if they are growing ok, mine are usually on 40mls every 8 hours. Never give more than 40 mls at one sitting. Mine are usually picking up for themselves - the earliest has been 20 days, but certainly by 4 weeks. 

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm


They can't be released till they are eating and flying well, so a couple more months anyway. They still won't have the chance of survival they would have had if raised by the parents, who teach them what they need to know to survive. If you feed the birds in your yard and do a soft release from there, they would have a better chance. 

Can you post pics of them?


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Yep! I took these during tonight's feeding (top is Nell, bottom is Neve; Nell maybe looks bigger than she really is because the camera was closer):



















They're still active, still feeding well, poops look healthy. They had a quick paddle in the sink earlier which they weren't too pleased about but it got the dirt off their feet and they dried off and warmed up fast. I can get some daylight pics of them sitting together tomorrow when I change their bedding. They're busy cleaning themselves right now 

25-30cc feels like a good amount for them right now and I'll ramp it up to 35-40 over the next week, if that sounds ok & they take to it well, and start offering some seeds in a week or so. re: releasing I'm gonna start taking them outdoors once they're old enough to get them used to it, help them get the hang of foraging in the grass, hopefully get them flapping a bit etc and take it at their pace.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Taking them outside is not a good idea. They will eventually find their wings, and when they do, they will take off to where you cannot get them. Happens all the time. If you want to put them outside, it should be in a safe enclosure. People come on all the time who took them out for exercise or practice foraging, or just to get some sun, and they have lost them. Some have even had a hawk swoop down quickly and grab them. Not a good idea. Not until they are actually ready to be able to make it on their own. Which they won't be for another couple of months. But then if cold weather is coming, then not good then either. When the warm weather is just starting is the best time, as it gives them time to acclimate to life in the wild.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Taking them outside is not a good idea. They will eventually find their wings, and when they do, they will take off to where you cannot get them. Happens all the time. If you want to put them outside, it should be in a safe enclosure. People come on all the time who took them out for exercise or practice foraging, or just to get some sun, and they have lost them. Some have even had a hawk swoop down quickly and grab them. Not a good idea. Not until they are actually ready to be able to make it on their own. Which they won't be for another couple of months. But then if cold weather is coming, then not good then either. When the warm weather is just starting is the best time, as it gives them time to acclimate to life in the wild.


Hmm, ok! The weather certainly isn't getting better so should I be prepared to care for these two through the rest of the autumn/winter? (edit: I guess I should ask local rescues first, in case they already have others that they plan on releasing all together once they're able to care for themselves/the weather is warmer)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Local rescues would be a great idea if they have a small flock to release. Sometimes they do.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Alright, I'll be contacting a nearby rescue once they're old enough to see if I can hand them over for actual release preparation 

Here's a pic of them together from earlier (with a bit of food on their faces that I wiped off after). Neve on the left, Nell on the right:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They're very cute. Doing well.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

So! Two weeks on and babies are doing wonderfully. There's just one thing that's bugging me: they both have a narrow strip of featherless skin running down their throat. I've seen feather loss in that area pointed to as a sign of canker but usually alongside other things; aside from this they have zero other symptoms and I can't find anything that says whether this is normal or not. The skin isn't scaly or scabby. They're not lethargic or unresponsive (they run around whenever I take them out to feed them and are starting to make short flights), they're eating like they've never seen food before (one can self-feed and I'm only supplementing with baby mix for hydration purposes - she can drink but I want to know she's doing so regularly - the other is eating soft veggies on her own but not seeds yet and still looses her mind when she sees me prepping her food), their crops are emptying within a few hours of eating, there's nothing about their poop that seems off to me, there's no visible sign of growths anywhere on or in them as far as I can see. Is it still worth treating them as a precaution?

(I can post pics later when I'm not busy/take them out for feeding if necessary. It's a tricky operation because they wriggle so much and I have to tip their heads back and part the feathers either side slightly to show the problem area)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You would have to post a picture of them. Not holding them, just a pic or 2 from the front, to see what you mean. If you have to look that closely to see it, and they are acting fine, then they are probably fine. If you are sure he knows how to drink, and he knows where the water is, then he will drink when he needs to.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

They are adorable, I love woddies too - they are so big and stunning feather wise. I hand raised my six pigeons from hatch and always used a baby wipe held over their chests at feed time and then a dampened baby wipe or two to clean them up immediately afterwards because that stuff sets like cement, lol. I always go by the feel of their crop and all ate different amounts - although they all would have totally overfed if it were up to them, ha ha! 

I love your babies and I hope you can find somewhere who will soft release them with other woodies.
If you're on Facebook try joining this uk group, members will help you find a good Rescue for them for later. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/

You're doing a great job and they're a lucky little couple. Thank you for being so caring to them.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

FredaH said:


> They are adorable, I love woddies too - they are so big and stunning feather wise. I hand raised my six pigeons from hatch and always used a baby wipe held over their chests at feed time and then a dampened baby wipe or two to clean them up immediately afterwards because that stuff sets like cement, lol. I always go by the feel of their crop and all ate different amounts - although they all would have totally overfed if it were up to them, ha ha!
> 
> I love your babies and I hope you can find somewhere who will soft release them with other woodies.
> If you're on Facebook try joining this uk group, members will help you find a good Rescue for them for later.
> ...


Thank you  These two definitely eat like they've never seen food before as well. I got the hang of feeding them once I was able to feel a totally empty crop vs a full one. I have a local rescue already in mind who take in and re-release all sorts of wildlife; I'm probably going to contact them next week about handing the babies over once they're completely weaned so that they don't have to worry about having two more mouths that need hand-feeding lol.

I had a nose through the photos I have of them and this is one of the better ones that shows the bald patch on their necks (pardon the mess; this was in the morning before I cleaned the cage out):










They both have this, and you can see how it extends further down the neck but is covered by the feathers either side past a certain point. I've also noticed them making swallowing sort of motions, usually after eating, but their throats are still completely clear as far as I can see.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would treat for canker with Metronidazole for 10 days, then see how they do from there.
Don't think you can get that there. I know you can get Spartrix, but never had much luck with that.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Yeah I think metro might be prescription-only over here? I'll go out and look for some Spartrix today and give it a shot anyhow. If they don't get any better I can take them down to the vet and get them looked at.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The Spartrix package will tell you to give it for 3 days. That doesn't do it. I would treat for 10 days.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

That was gonna be my next question, thank you  We tried several places today with no luck finding any Spartrix in a physical shop so I've ordered some online w/ express delivery.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Another quick question before the Spartrix arrives tomorrow: it says half a tablet for "young, weaned pigeons". These two are approaching 5 weeks and are weaned, but being wood pigeons, they're also pretty big - almost a foot long from beak to tail tip. Should I give full tablets or just halves? I can't get an exact weight on them because we have old timey balance scales but I might be able to get an estimate if that would help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would give the whole tablet. They say to give half for a just weaned pigeon, but even at 32 times the dosage, there have not been problems seen, except maybe a few birds might vomit at that high a dose. I have not had that much of a success rate with Spartrix, so cutting it in half seems pointless. It has a very high safety margin.

You need to remove food and water a couple of hours before medicating, then medicate and then you can return the feed and water. It should be given on empty crop. I would treat for 10 days.


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## reckingstacks (Sep 14, 2017)

Thanks! I just gave them their first dose each pre-breakfast and they've been on their shelf all night so won't have had anything to drink since they can't get back up there themselves if they jump off it. Hopefully they'll be on the mend over the next week-and-a-bit


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