# Too many feral visitors



## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi, I have a problem of too many visiting birds and need advice. I have homed and grown a flock of white and multi-coloured pigeons over four years and managed to keep my numbers manageable to about 60 birds by stealing their eggs and putting dummies under them. Until the last seven months or so, when a large group of feral pigeons found my flock which is free flying and roost in a large dovecote. I feed them in my garden twice a day so they come and go as they wish. I now have about two hundreds birds flying in from different directions and they hang around for both feeds then fly off. During the day my roof is black with them sitting about. They have started sitting on my neighbours roofs and It is only time before they start complaining. My other problem is they I can't afford to keep feeding them as it mounts to hundreds of dollars a month. Does anyone have a suggestion too help me please?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Cut back to one feeding a day...it'll save you $ and it will likely make a fair number of 'em decide that you aren't as cushy a setup as you seemed to have been last week.

Right now I am guessing you feed twice a day at roughly the same times of day...so they are synced into that. Once a feeding schedule changes a bit, after a few days they won't be hanging around as much....at least, in theory. In practice too, it sorta works...most times....


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Jaye, Do you think my birds will be okay with just one feed a day. I don't want them leaving home? It would certainly help with the finances. I worked out that it is costing me $23 a day, $644 a month! I thought I would worm them all if I can get them to drink only from the bird baths I have set up. That may help them not to be so desperate to eat. At the moment even with all the food I give them they climb all over each other to get to it first. I have been told that if they are badly infected with worms the worms die inside them and sometimes they die trying to get the worms out? This has put me off doing it for three years! I am a coward I know.
Any way I will try your suggestion thanks and let you know how I go.
Cheers


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi feather,

Welcome to my world!

My experiences are just like Jaye's. Just be strong and cut feeding to one time a day. Scare them off if you have to; its better for them to find secondary food sources, if they can.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Wellington is prolific for feral pigeons, Luckily here in Canty we have a lot of fields and the pigeons do not stop in built up areas, They fly from the cliffs or buildings straight out to the fields to feed annoying the farmers instead of us city dwellers. Have you ever had problems with BOP, hawks and such up in Wellington, I do not down here and have not heard of it in NZ at all but am interested to hear others experiences in the North Island.

Also Bella and Jaye have given you something to try - hopefully that will help.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi Bella and Evan,
Yes there is/was loads of city ferals here in Wellie but I think they have all discovered me! I am going to find it so hard and cruel to have to make them go hungry by feeding only once a day. They look so small and needy compared to my big fat glossy ones. When I am in town I carry bread and rice and feed them when I can, I really don't know how they survive there is so little in the streets for them, knowing how much mine like to eat. I have been taking in baby and injured ones from the SPCA here, fixing them and growing them till they feed themselves and then letting them join my flock. I think one of the adults must have gone back into town and told their friends!

Yes hawks and falcons would sort them out. Before i had this problem I was a "friend of Zealandia" with a year's subscription but then i learnt they were breeding falcon in the sanctuary and I left in protest. But know I am thinking if we got those predators it would certainly solve my problem but they would probably pick my fat white ones off first, not so ideal.

But I was interested that the pigeons can find food okay in fields. We have regenerating bush all around the close hills, apart from the new subdivision immediately around our dovecote and house. I am a bit concerned that if I don't feed them they may start going to the other houses and creating a nausance. We have an iinvading amount of vats coming in with the buyer of the new houses in th esubdivision. I spend a lot of time petroling the perimitter showing them away or trying to warn them off with a water pistol. We also have posums but not so many as many of them have been trapped. I have traps out for stoats but I have caught only one and many very large rats.

Thanks for your interst and suggestions, I will keep you posted.
Heather


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I also agree with cutting down the feeds. I was talking to a lady today who also used to feed our local white flock and other ferals that joined them. She was feeding twice a day and there were about a hundred in total.
Then last year her husband just cut feeding out completely, (which I was not so happy about, a bit too severe all of a sudden).
She too was finding expence was too much.
Anyway today she was telling me she gets hardly any now although her neighbour still feeds and they just go to hers. So as the others have said, if you just cut down, they'll move off a bit.
It is hard when you see them looking so much in need so I'd find it hard to tell you to stop completely.

Is it possible for you to feed yours somewhere undercover so the others can't see. This way you could still do them twice daily.

It's a good idea to try and sort the numbers out before neighbours start complaining. Much harder once they're on your back to pacify them.

Good luck, hope you can find a way to look after all of them , discreetly!

Janet


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Heather,

I totally understand; its not an easy situation to be in. I suppose one way to look at it is that if you cut the feeding down to once daily, you are giving them a chance to look for secondary feeding grounds, especially the younger ones who may never have looked for anywhere else. If the day comes when you can't afford to feed them, or the neighbours become a problem, or you temporarily can't feed them, then they will know somewhere else to forage. 

That would be the ideal anyway. In practice, you can only monitor the situation and try to figure out if cutting back is working or not.

Do you have any schools near by? Most of my feral flock come from the local schools, and some from a bridge near the local train station. The schools close several times a year and the pigeons have to look for new food sources- I think that's how most of mine found me. I've found that its more difficult to cut their food down during school holidays, because there's nowhere else for them to go really. But when school's back in, weaning them down seems to work better.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if you feed them they will come..so you are attracting them.. is there another location you can leave the feed for them? you could try making your cote so you have more control over your pigeons by being able to keep them in a loft type structure so you can feed them in there away from the others.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> if you feed them they will come..so you are attracting them.. is there another location you can leave the feed for them? you could try making your cote so you have more control over your pigeons by being able to keep them in a loft type structure so you can feed them in there away from the others.



Yes.......that would be the ideal.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi Janet, Bella_F and Spirit Wings,
Thanks for your help.
Do you think I could halve the amount twice a day? Then the most hungry would get in first? The bottom level of my dovecote was designed as a feeding level, but when I got too many birds I started feeding them on the ground. Also some birds put their nests in there and one or two birds where hogging the food and stopping others from getting to it. I could now try feeding them on the ground in the morning then on that level in the evenings? My birds seem to have been able to defend their cote so far. As for having a loft, yes that would be the story but my husband doesn't like caging birds which is why he agreed to make me my dovecote. I doubt that I would get his support on that however he is also not happy about the overwhelming number I have managed to attract! I hope it doesn't become an ultimatum choice between him or the birds, just joking, I hope!?
Cheers, Heather


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you have a flock and keep them in a loft. They don't have to so much be caged. They can still be let out daily to fly, and fed in the loft when they return at the days end. Lots of people do that.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

feather45 said:


> Hi Janet, Bella_F and Spirit Wings,
> Thanks for your help.
> Do you think I could halve the amount twice a day? Then the most hungry would get in first? The bottom level of my dovecote was designed as a feeding level, but when I got too many birds I started feeding them on the ground. Also some birds put their nests in there and one or two birds where hogging the food and stopping others from getting to it. I could now try feeding them on the ground in the morning then on that level in the evenings? My birds seem to have been able to defend their cote so far. As for having a loft, yes that would be the story but my husband doesn't like caging birds which is why he agreed to make me my dovecote. I doubt that I would get his support on that however he is also not happy about the overwhelming number I have managed to attract! I hope it doesn't become an ultimatum choice between him or the birds, just joking, I hope!?
> Cheers, Heather


the loft would just be place to feed and house them at night so you have some control..they can be let out when you want them to fly.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Jay3 and Spirit Wings,
I love the look of your loft Spirit Wings in your portrait image. Not sure how to get my portrait image to show in the forum? Can you see it?

If you look at my album you will see my dovecote picture. I am not sure how I could modify it to be a loft? I guess I would have to build around it somehow to enclose it. I will talk to my husband, (especially nicely) and see if he can see a way.
Thanks for your support.
Heather


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

feather45 said:


> Thanks Jay3 and Spirit Wings,
> I love the look of your loft Spirit Wings in your portrait image. Not sure how to get my portrait image to show in the forum? Can you see it?
> 
> If you look at my album you will see my dovecote picture. I am not sure how I could modify it to be a loft? I guess I would have to build around it somehow to enclose it. I will talk to my husband, (especially nicely) and see if he can see a way.
> ...


you can try a net around it too..keep them in and those out... let the net up when you want them to fly. just a thought..  but that would may be a bit of a hassle everyday.. a loft would solve everything..just about.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

feather45 said:


> Do you think I could halve the amount twice a day? Then the most hungry would get in first?


Yes, I think you could do that. And I love the open dovecoat/loft idea too; do you own your property then?

The last time I had to reduce the wild pigeon numbers at my place, what worked for me was to stop feeding completely for 3 days, and after that I cut my feeding back from what it had been. It was SO hard to do it, but after 3 days with no food, the ones who had other feeding grounds to go to, went back there. This reduced the flock by about half. Then I started feeding a lesser amount to ones who didn't know where else to go, or who think they own my place (and probably do,lol)

.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't want the ones that don't know where else to go to not get fed for three days. I know it's hard when you end up having too many, but we create that by feeding them. I have had that happen also, and cutting down on the feed just seems kinder.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I wouldn't want the ones that don't know where else to go to not get fed for three days. I know it's hard when you end up having too many, but we create that by feeding them. I have had that happen also, and cutting down on the feed just seems kinder.


I agree Jay3; actually I have no idea what the best thing to do is exactly, aside for the open loft idea, which is a really good suggestion IMO.

I live in a rental property, so once every six months during inspection time, the wild pigeons really have to go or they could be exterminated. With my guys, they didn't get the message to look for food elsewhere when I cut down on feeding; they just hung around waiting for the extra food that never came. So I tried the 3 day withholding thing to see if that would make them understand to look elsewhere. It seems to have worked, but I didn't like doing it. They have become like family to me


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for your experience Bella_F and Jay3. I will try worming them first then feeding mine in the dovecote in the evenings and giving a little less to all in the morning and see what happens. I will let you know.
Thanks


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Sorry I forgot to answer your question Bell_F, yes I own my property so we could build a permanant dovecote. I had a smaller one in my last house in the Wairarapa but we had falcons and hawks there so I lost a few of them to the predators. There was also not feral pigeons there so I didn't have this current problem.
Cheers


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Pretty good discussion all around. Yes, it is difficult, and it can be heartbreaking...but maybe not.

I don't think reducing the 'serving sizes' but keeping two feedings a day is going to make any of your diners start to scatter off. I think they'd still be expecting...and getting...two 'seatings' a day and they'd still be waiting around for 'em.

I really think back to one feeding will do that much better. I also dunno if you really want to make loft birds out of who are now free-fliers...just for the sake of separating 'yours' from the others. I dunno...you could, but that seems a bit extreme, IMHO....unless yours are sorta hobbled or compromised or something, in which case I have no qualms about 'lofting' a Feral.

I am gonna guess that even after you cut to one feeding....the ones which originally hung around closer to you will still do so...while the more recent arrivals...those who roost elsewhere, will just catch on that your table ain't the greatest of finds after all.

I think it is a decent plan. If once the outsiders start to scatter and the numbers become smaller again, maybe you can up the feedings a bit again if you feel that 'yours' have gotten the short end of the stick.

Jeez...this brings back thoughts of how often I would do that. Out of the pure joy of feeding and seeing my pals, and meeting new Feral pals as well...I would feed quite a lot near my place...and the numbers would swell. Then either because of a comment by someone or maybe even me just realizing it was gettin' a bit crazy...I would reduce (with GREAT emotional difficulty, I add)...and the Flocks would disperse, and the numbers would go back down to my loyal ol' 'homies'. Then I would sorta slide back into feeding 'em more...and then the new characters would show up again...and the whole thing would repeat itself....


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I like the idea of feeding inside, give them a small amount in the morning and a large feed at night and then let them out during the day, Once the ferals stop visiting you may be able to scatter the morning feed outside, Let them eat it ALL up and then at the end of the day put the majority of their feed in the loft.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I like the idea of feeding inside, give them a small amount in the morning and a large feed at night and then let them out during the day, Once the ferals stop visiting you may be able to scatter the morning feed outside, Let them eat it ALL up and then at the end of the day put the majority of their feed in the loft.


I think that makes sense.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> I agree Jay3; actually I have no idea what the best thing to do is exactly, aside for the open loft idea, which is a really good suggestion IMO.
> 
> I live in a rental property, so once every six months during inspection time, the wild pigeons really have to go or they could be exterminated. With my guys, they didn't get the message to look for food elsewhere when I cut down on feeding; they just hung around waiting for the extra food that never came. So I tried the 3 day withholding thing to see if that would make them understand to look elsewhere. It seems to have worked, but I didn't like doing it. They have become like family to me



I know how hard it is to stop feeding them like that. I never did that, but as I wanted to keep the flock smaller, I was determined to feed only a certain amount per day, so that my feed wouldn't be enough for them to solely depend on, and they would also go elsewhere for the rest. It worked well too, until the cold New England winter blew in, and it was a particularly hard winter. I would see those poor things sitting up there on my roof, or flock to it as soon as I drove up to the house. They were wet and cold and hungry, and I would feel so bad for them that I just started giving them more and more feed to keep them warm. Well by the time spring came, then came the young ones, and I couldn't cut back then. I had kinda gotten myself stuck into a situation. Well, of course with more food, their numbers started to grow. Believe me, I know how hard it is. Before long, you just have too many birds coming. Since I built the loft a few years back however, the hawks know my birds are here, and during the winter time, the poor ferals get hit so often by the hawks that they eventually almost stop coming. When they return in spring, their numbers are so thinned out. I can only imagine that some maybe starve, or get caught by hawks. By the time fall comes, the numbers have grown some, but not too bad. But then the winter hawk season starts again, and they don't come as much. It's terrible, but it has kept the numbers down for the past few years without me having to do anything. Don't know what the answer is. I imagine it would be to keep down the feed you give, but that is hard to do when you see them and know that they are hungry. Wish I had the perfect answer, but I don't.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thank you for your thoughts and stories. Yes it is awful and goes against everything I have been doing for the last four years. Tonight I halved the food and put some in feeders in my dovecote on the first level. Mine haven't quie remembered yet that i used to do that, some have, but most are sitting about waiting for me to go out and give them a decent feed. I am going to go out so I don't have to watch. Mine have a lot of fat on them so i think they will be okay for a while and it is only just the start of Autumn so it is not as bad weatherwise as it would be in Winter. I suspect i couldn't do it then.
Will give you progress reports. It is good for me to have to report to you because I might otherwise be tempted to put my head in the sand and reneg for just a wee bit longer....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wish you luck. I hope it works for you. I think when a few do realize where it is, the rest will catch on and remember. Will be waiting to hear from you.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Jay3 you will..


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Its important you don't let your own birds get too hungry because here in NZ pigeons are moulting. Its also bad to let them breed while moulting but sounds like your not breeding anyway.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for that advice thepigeonkey,
Yes the garden is full of feathers!! I will keep a close eye on them.
Cheers,
Heather


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi, 
I have just made a phot album of pictures of my feral visitors on my roof, so you can see them. 
Cheers,
Heather


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> It worked well too, until the cold New England winter blew in, and it was a particularly hard winter. I would see those poor things sitting up there on my roof, or flock to it as soon as I drove up to the house. They were wet and cold and hungry, and I would feel so bad for them that I just started giving them more and more feed to keep them warm. Well by the time spring came, then came the young ones, and I couldn't cut back then. I had kinda gotten myself stuck into a situation. Well, of course with more food, their numbers started to grow. Believe me, I know how hard it is.


Hi Jay3, I really appreciated hearing a bit more about life your way, and the kind of challenges you're dealing with there. If your feral flock includes ones you've nursed back to health, I can only imagine the kind of heartache you go through every year with the hawks and bad winters. I think it was really nice of you to care for them through that really bad winter; it must have taken strength knowing you would become attached to them, and that the hawks could take them.

I get the impression that the situation with feeding wild pigeons is hard for us all. I've read through a lot of threads like this one, and they are mostly unresolved, so its nice to have a deeper discussion about it. There's always that awful question, if we stop helping all of them, will they just die? I don't know the answer.

Some mornings I come out to my back deck, and see their little expectant faces, waiting with that trust in their eyes (which takes time to earn).... faces I've nursed through bad times; faces I love- probably just like you guys. And I realise how happy they make me feel. I love them with such abandon. I've had desperate thoughts at times, of grabbing all the ones I know best, and looking after just them because I can't look after all of them. I don't know, maybe I will do that if I have to move one day.

The hard thing about my flock is the ones I love most are not necessarily dominant or good competers; if the food gets cut down, they are more likely to be the ones who suffer. I've become so worried at times that there are some I've trained to come into my house and eat at` their bowl' because next time I have to cut down feeding, I want them to have somewhere to come for food.

Maybe I just need to harden up, I don't know.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Heather I think you need to build an aviary/flight to feed your birds in and find cheaper food. Even wheat at the supermarket is only $12 for 10 kg but I'm sure you could find peas wheat and maize for less than $1 per kg


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Hi Jay3, I really appreciated hearing a bit more about life your way, and the kind of challenges you're dealing with there. If your feral flock includes ones you've nursed back to health, I can only imagine the kind of heartache you go through every year with the hawks and bad winters. I think it was really nice of you to care for them through that really bad winter; it must have taken strength knowing you would become attached to them, and that the hawks could take them.
> 
> I get the impression that the situation with feeding wild pigeons is hard for us all. I've read through a lot of threads like this one, and they are mostly unresolved, so its nice to have a deeper discussion about it. There's always that awful question, if we stop helping all of them, will they just die? I don't know the answer.
> 
> ...



That's a good idea. I did that a few years back with carolina wrens when the starlings and house sparrows were stealing all their mealworms. They came in through a small opening that I left for them during the day. It worked pretty well til the sparrows caught on. 
As far as hardening up, well that doesn't work. At least it hasn't for me.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Feather (Heather)...how is the process going ? Just checking in....


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Jaye for remembering and for your interest.
Well, I drastically reduced their feed and put some into the dovecote as was generally decided to be the best way to deal with the problem and that made them very hungry. 

Then I got some moxidectin and doesed them for worms and because it is moult tiime here I upped the feed a bit to help them cope. Then I started reducing it again. 

I had put an add on an online auction site for them "free to a good home" and just when i was disparing that they would ever leave, I got a request from a couple who have just bought a "Lifestyle Property" in a country area and they asked if they could have as many as I could supply!!!!! Well you can imagine I was over the moon in fact I cried because I felt such relief. 
However they don't take possession of their new property until early April this year so I am having to wait for about six weeks until they are in a possition to house them.They said they have a chook house on the property which they could put them into temporarily until they had built a proper loft or what ever. 

So I am back to feeding them a goodly amount and keeping my fingers crossed that the couple don't change their mind?!

I have borrowed a wire dog cage in which I drop some of the seeds. I got a request for some from the same add last week and I managed to catch about forty by shutting the door which I had attached a long string to while they fed. Unfortuneately this person only asked for 6 but was happy to take the 16 I had boxed for him. 

So that is how i imagine I will catch them for the couple on the Life Style place. I might have to catch them in a few goes as of course for a day or so after I get some they are reluctant to go into the cage until they get hungry enough to risk it or have forgotten?

I will let you know what happens with the couple. They are an hour and a half drive from my place so it is possible theoretically. I guess I have about four weeks to wait now...

Cheers,
Feather


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK, thanks for the update.

Just as an aside, do be *VERY *careful regarding posting Pigeon ads on the web. There are plenty of people who would use free Pigeons for some very bad things (dog training, pigeon shoots, farming, etc). You really wanna make sure the people you are conversing with aren't any of those folks....they can be quite shifty....you really ahve to interview 'em and even see their place...

I actually think your pals might be better off if you just went to Plan A and reduced their feed, and let them disperse naturally...being Ferals, they will catch on. I find that a better solution than catching them and relocating them.

I would not be inclined to start upping their food again.....


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Yes you could be right Jaye and I will check them out first. We have a lot of professional couples here in NZ who buy Life Style properties close to the city so they can be weekend farmers. I suspect these people are "ecco friendly" but I will talk to them and assertain their intensions first. Thanks for the warning. Also you are probably right that I should keep on with plan A in the mean time as there are so very many of them that if some go before hand all to the good.
Cheers,
Feather45


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

feather45, I would do as Jaye has suggested and just let them disperse naturally by themselves. Nobody would answer an add for feral pigeons and want as many as you can give them, unless they are up to no good. People either use these free birds for dog training, or live pigeon shoots or something you wouldn't want them used for. Please don't give them any birds. I know it sounds like the answer, but think...............who wants all the feral pigeons around that they can get? NO ONE! Most people want to get rid of them. As Jaye mentioned, they are feral, and will find other places to go in time if you just cut back on the food. I know you mean well and are trying to help them, but they are free, and catching them to give to someone who most likely does not have good motives is just not right. You would probably be sending them to their worst nightmare. Please reconsider and don't put adds on auction sights. That is where people like that look for birds, either free or cheap.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree if they are wanting the birds for dog training or something like that then its not a good idea to let them have them
But whats to say these people don't want a flock of ferals flying around their property, Jay3 - Here in NZ people are not quite so anti pigeons as in other countries as we do not have the same sort of problem as places like san fran. But I do understand your concerns, They are more than valid but thats not to say they are going to become reality.

Feather - From what you have said regarding these people building a loft for the pigeons I get the idea they may actually want them as pets. They make good loft fliers and will forage for food once let out so they may be ideal for the people wanting them.

I would do some investigating, Look at their set up and then you can make an informed decision as to whether you think it would be a good home for the pigeons or not.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Seeing their set up doesn't tell you what they want the birds for.
These are free birds, and should remain free. Taking them that way isn't right. If they want birds, they could buy a few pairs and breed their own.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for your advice Bella and your thoghts Evan. I will definately check out these peoples intensions first and as I do love these birds there is no way I will put them at risk please be assured of that. I will report back to you when i know to relieve your concerns.
Thanks,
Feather45


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi Jay3, 
I will be able to tell what sort of people they are when I see and speak with them face to face. I suspect they have a country dream and having a flock of pigeons flying about is part of it.
Cheers, Feather45


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't really want to add too much paranoia, but falconers also keep pigeon lofts for their birds to hunt and eat.

Its a really nice thought that someone would want to rehome a lot of feral pigeons though; I hope that is the case as unlikely as it seems. I wonder why they want ferals and not domesticated pigeons?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

feather45 said:


> Hi Jay3,
> *I will be able to tell what sort of people they are when I see and speak with them face to face.* I suspect they have a country dream and having a flock of pigeons flying about is part of it.
> Cheers, Feather45


Not necessarily. These birds are free. Don't think it's right that you take that away from them. Are you aware that when you catch birds this way, you are taking another birds mate, and they normally mate for life. You are also taking parent birds from their young, and the young could starve in the nest. I think it's wrong to interfere with their life in this way. They are not yours to do this with. If these people really want birds, then let them buy domesticated birds and breed more if they want more. You created this by feeding them, now handing them over to something that you cannot be sure of, is the solution? Not fair to the birds. They are free, and should remain that way.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Good luck Heather, Lots to take into account here when making a decision, It's your decision after all atleast now you can make an informed one!


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Evan, Yes I do understand where Jay3 is coming from and in a way I agree with her. I will ponder all this.
I appreciate all comments. I had thought the pigeons would get a better life as I see so many very sick and unhappy pigeons in the city I just didn't want to return them to that. I didn't advertise them as feral, just grey pigeons with irridescent necks which is what they are. Some of them look like ex racer pigeons who have lost their way or are offspring from them. None have bands though. It would be so much simpler if my pigeons weren't so mixed up with the visiting ones and then I could simply stop feeding them. I will feed them as little as possible now and see what happens.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

There have been some good points raised here....

Even IF a person's intention is to start a loft of Ferals so they can house them and enjoy them coming and going each day on their property....

...that won't work out well. As a lotta people here will tell you....you cannot successfully re-home adult Ferals. You cannot successfully re-home _most _adult flyer Pigeons, actually. Ferals no exception.

Because...as Pigeons _home_...an adult will way more than likely arrive his new 'loft home'...and upon being allowed out...try to home back to his/her real home. 
This actually puts the birds in a bad situation. The majority, upon given free flight...would do this....vanish. Try to home back to their neighborhood. And that could be quite the labor for them....

So...even if the people you are talking to really do love Pigeons and want to make a nice place for them...unless they intend to keep a _closed loft_ (meaning no free-flying of the adults brought there; the loft is closed and they cannot leave it...), moving healthy adult Ferals from their natural home grounds to someplace new is not gonna go well for the vast majority of those Pigeons.

And...if the intention *is* to keep a closed loft or aviary, with the Pigeons permanently housed inside the loft...

...would you really want to take these healthy Feral friends of yours, who have their Feral lives and their daily, familiar routine...and quite likely their mates and roosting places (and perhaps babies they are raising back at their nests)....and actually catch them and move them to a life of a closed loft ???

As Evan says, there are a lot of things to think about and you have a lotta considerations to weigh....and these are very serious considerations and very realistic scenarios....

I honestly do not think the cultural differences outweigh the fact that when folks respond to a bunch of free Pigeons available, the significant majority of them want the birds for very wrong and cruel reasons. Also it doesn't matter to these people whether the Pigeon is Feral or lost Homer or someone's lost Pet...so they would not discriminate or care, as long as they were Pigeons....

And secondly, as I have said....a forced move of adult Ferals away from their familiar homes is just is fraught with problems, some of which I noted. I think it's good to go with the food reduction and let them naturally thin, instead. 

And they will. I bet Jay and I and Bella and everyone else can tell you with certainty that we have all had times when our desire to feed and the joy of having our Feral friends visit became a bit outta control...resulting in the exact situation you are facing. And simply by being a bit stingier with the mealtimes and frequencies did in fact successfully make a whole lot of the crowd disperse once they realized the gig wasn't all it seemed to be....


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

I know you mean well but my opinion is you should built a loft with a trap door and only let your birds out to fly for a limited time each day and to STOP FEEDING THE WILD ONES. I dont blame your neighbors for getting upset if you have a couple hundred ferals hanging around all the time. If they complain you could very well end up losing your own birds. But there again that is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. Good luck to you whatever you do.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for all your thoughts. Tonight I am back to being stingie at feed times and I will slowly put out less and less. Hopefully it will work and I will let you know in about a week how it is going.

I have never heard of people in NZ using pigeons to train hunting dogs, but I suppose it is possible. You are right people with no empathy for other life forms can be very cruel and I have no intention to exposing my visitors to that. 

I have managed sucessfully to re-home several adult birds though in the past so I think it is possible if they are kept enclosed for four weeks and they have all their physical needs met. 

In watching my birds I have to dispell the idea that they mate for life though. I think they are very promiscuous and basically are sexual opportunists and they seem to have no regard for whether they are intimately related or not. Perhaps it's the wild NZ air? 

Anyway I am firmly back to plan A so will keep you posted.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hey Feather...check out this link...

http://www.andrewblechman.com/pigeons/cool_facts.html


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I hate to say it Feather but I hear of it a lot, Also heard that the falcon at the local animal zoo here gets fed on peoples birds. I also agree that pigeons do not mate for life in the same way a penguin or albatros would, They are sexual oppurtunists as you say but they also realise the need for a mate.

Jaye I agree with most of what you say but I have succesfully homed adult racing pigeons, with enough time and the right treatment they will stay around. I agree it is hard and you will loose some but to say it cannot be done is not true.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

feather45 said:


> Thanks for all your thoughts. Tonight I am back to being stingie at feed times and I will slowly put out less and less. Hopefully it will work and I will let you know in about a week how it is going.
> 
> I have never heard of people in NZ using pigeons to train hunting dogs, but I suppose it is possible. You are right people with no empathy for other life forms can be very cruel and I have no intention to exposing my visitors to that.
> 
> ...


I am glad you decided this. I think it's the better path both for you and the Ferals.

Keep in mind, the 'loyal' ones which you have known for a while, the first ones you started feeding...they will very likely not move off. The tried-and-true guys usually will stay. It's the newer diners who will move on, typically.

A couple of comments: Actually, Pigeons really aren't promiscuous and sexual opportunists. It is no misconception about Pigeon mates...much has been observed and studied and experienced and written about it over generations. They'll switch when they have to (when their mate dies, or when a stronger male becomes a homewrecker, for example...or when they are permanently separated from their chosen mate and nest) but for the most part they are quite true. Again, not just me speaking, a lot has been observed on the subject for a long time.

I was into Pigeons a good 5 years before I ever was clued into the dog training thing. Had never heard of a 'pigeon shoot' either until I was 45 years old. Falcon training ? Had never really considered it.
But just because I had never heard of it (and again, consider...it isn't going to be the kind of thing which is spoken about openly) didn't mean it wasn't going on quite commonly.

Finally (thank goodness, you say ), just to clarify ~ if you look back at the replies, nobody said it was 'impossible' to rehome adults. I do feel your observation/belief that it would typically take 4 weeks and they can be successfully rehomed is way, way off the mark. (I don't doubt you have experienced this...yet if one did a poll here I think overwhelmingly the replies would come in that the percentages on successful rehoming are typically very low).
I think the points being made were that it's just has a low success rate, and it'd be cruel to yank healthy Ferals from their natural context and life for no particularly good reason. 

I mean..IF there was an imminent danger to them...that'd be one thing. But your current situation doesn't pose any danger to 'em. They do not need to be 'rescued' or 'relocated' for any reason. 
They are just going about their business as usual. And once the feeding becomes less plentiful...they will move on and go about their business elsewhere...Now....it might take a few weeks, so you have to be strong about it and try not to backslide (as in "oh, OK, just this once here's an extra helping" ); because I know it tugs on the heart a bit and ain't easy ! As we have shared...many of us have 'been there'. But they will move on and the numbers will reduce.


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## feather45 (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks Charis the link was very good and an inspiration. More to ponder...

Thanks Jaye, I will do my best to be consistant with Plan A and cutting the feed. I am glad you checked up on me 'cos I was obviously going in the wrong direction trying to solve this problem.

Cheers


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