# Interesting reading Garlic & probiotic



## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

Thought I would pass this along.

http://www.pigeonbooks.com/index.php?r=14&c=73&l=en

Makes for interesting reading.

I am a firm believer in fresh only garlic in the water, once a week.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That is an interesting article. Thanks for the link!

Terry


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Goingatitagain said:


> Thought I would pass this along.
> 
> http://www.pigeonbooks.com/index.php?r=14&c=73&l=en
> 
> ...


 I have his book Pigeons and their Economical Health Care by Dr Zsolt Talaber and I have always liked his straight forward approach and his simple explanations. 
His book and articles are fun to read because he make them so interesting. Thanx for sharing the link.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

That was great.. I knew not to use both together.. but not sure exactly the reason.. now I do!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Goingatitagain said:


> Thought I would pass this along.
> 
> http://www.pigeonbooks.com/index.php?r=14&c=73&l=en
> 
> ...



I love fresh garlic in the water for maintenance and prevention, however, I am a firm believer of using allicidin complex for treatment of individual birds. 

There is also a specific type of garlic in the cap that is more potent than your ordinary kitchen garlic. 

Also, you can control how much they are getting, as they may not get enough from the water, if they are not drinking enough water. You also control dosage and can't overdose.


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## Fly_high (Mar 30, 2011)

I like this article...


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

I skimmed through the article looking for what I know to be true as I once raised garlic.

What is missing is that all the healthful benefits of garlic break down as it dries or gets processed. You will never get all the benefits of garlic in a pill or capsule. It needs to be fresh.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> I skimmed through the article looking for what I know to be true as I once raised garlic.
> 
> What is missing is that all the healthful benefits of garlic break down as it dries or gets processed. You will never get all the benefits of garlic in a pill or capsule. It needs to be fresh.


I want to grow garlic... don't you plant it in the fall?


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I want to grow garlic... don't you plant it in the fall?


Yes. So spend the time leading up to it enriching the soil where you plan to plant. It is also requires a lot of water for nice bulbs. Take care and have fun.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> Yes. So spend the time leading up to it enriching the soil where you plan to plant. It is also requires a lot of water for nice bulbs. Take care and have fun.


Thank you!


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

I grew garlic last year, but found my cloves were about half the size of the ones at the store...I'll try a different soil this year


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

rpalmer said:


> What is missing is that all the healthful benefits of garlic break down as it dries or gets processed. You will never get all the benefits of garlic in a pill or capsule. It needs to be fresh.


Not necessarily, it depends on how it is encapsulated, processing can destroy the health benefits, but that is determined by the manufacturer.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Trees Gray said:


> Not necessarily, it depends on how it is encapsulated, processing can destroy the health benefits, but that is determined by the manufacturer.


Nope. This is how it works. Fresh garlic has all the benefits that you can read about anywhere. As soon as one clove is cut, that cut has now exposed the clove to the air. This allows the beneficial properties to dissipate. Cut that same piece again. You now have twice the amount of garlic exposed to the air and twice the loss in the same amount of time. The more you cut it, not only is the piece getting smaller, it is losing it's health and nutritional value even faster. Each cut makes it worse.

Powered garlic is the worse case scenario for two reasons. One the above mentioned and the other is that much ( I can't say all) of the garlic that gets ground up is from old garlic that has already lost it's value. Rather than throw away the product it is sold to be ground up. But even if you start with the best garlic grown, you have to dry it before it can be ground into a powder. So you have just turned a prime piece of garlic into something with the same nutritional value as sawdust. 

As a side note, cooked garlic looses it nutritional properties through the cooking process. Just the same as wine in cooking removes the alcohol. The bottom line is that if you want garlic for health and or nutrition, it has to be fresh.

That is the way it is and has always been. Don't be fooled by the advertising of those who sell garlic products. They want your money. I want you to have healthy birds. Read all you can about garlic (google is your friend). 

The only thing I need to mention for those who will be growing garlic starting this fall is to buy seed garlic. That is not garlic seed but seed garlic. It is kept in the ground a bit longer than the garlic you buy at the grocery store to eat.

Take care and have fun.


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

rpalmer said:


> Nope. This is how it works. Fresh garlic has all the benefits that you can read about anywhere. As soon as one clove is cut, that cut has now exposed the clove to the air. This allows the beneficial properties to dissipate. Cut that same piece again. You now have twice the amount of garlic exposed to the air and twice the loss in the same amount of time. The more you cut it, not only is the piece getting smaller, it is losing it's health and nutritional value even faster. Each cut makes it worse.
> 
> Powered garlic is the worse case scenario for two reasons. One the above mentioned and the other is that much ( I can't say all) of the garlic that gets ground up is from old garlic that has already lost it's value. Rather than throw away the product it is sold to be ground up. But even if you start with the best garlic grown, you have to dry it before it can be ground into a powder. So you have just turned a prime piece of garlic into something with the same nutritional value as sawdust.
> 
> ...


 IMHO Fresh Garlic is the only way to go. Once its processed it loses all the important qualities. I am a professional chef and have been cooking for 35 years in the restaurant business.. In all things fresh is the only way to go.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, I know HOW IT WORKS. You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to express mine.

I have found one that works well for treating birds, and been using it for years, they get exactly the potency they need. 

NOT ALL garlic caps are the same, AND the garlic in this product is superior to ordinary kitchen garlic. 

http://www.healthbeyondhype.com/allicidin-60-vcaps-p-148.html


*MY POINT IS: It's GOOD, it WORKS VERY WELL, DON'T JUDGE WHAT YOU HAVEN't tried.*


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

Trees Gray said:


> Yes, I know HOW IT WORKS.
> 
> I have found one that works well for treating birds, and been using it for years, they get exactly the potency they need.
> 
> ...


 Sounds real good !! I know there are products out there that are good like this one. How is this administered ? Is the capsule opened and poured into water or are giving the whole capsule.?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*the whole capsule*

Actually I give the whole cap to the bird.

I slick it down with a drop of Neem oil, open beak and place it on top and to the back of the tongue and gently push back and allow bird to swallow.

If you have never tried it, be sure to get some help holding the bird.


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

Trees Gray said:


> Actually I give the whole cap to the bird.
> 
> I slick it down with a drop of Neem oil, open beak and place it on top and to the back of the tongue and gently push back and allow bird to swallow.
> 
> If you have never tried it, be sure to get some help holding the bird.



I will pick some up. How often are you giving this to each bird..

Thanks for the good info... Anthony


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If I am treating a bird I will give it to him/her daily and then every other day, depending how he/she responds. Make sure the bird has acess to probiotics also.

The allicidin complex I use isn't available in stores, it has to be ordered from a supplier.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Good article, I prepare the Garlic a bit different but I deffenitley agree they need the garlic to stay healty.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Link with some good info. "What I do every once in a while is put a little garlic in their water during October. We do this as follows : first put a few cloves of garlic in a bottle of water, let it sit for a day and pour some in each drinker. As soon as the water in the bottle gets milky, throw it out. The cloves can be used again. This simple remedy is a good blood purifier."

http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/pigeonandloft/so-much-depends-succesful-moult


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the good info everyone !


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