# Hawks - where do they come from?



## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

My neighbours told me today that a sparrow-hawk killed a pigeon in our back yard (while I was across the road feeding the flock in the disused car park). There were only feathers left, and I don't know if the hawk (if that is what it was) carried the pigeon away (is there any hope it could have got free and survived?) or ate the pigeon on the spot. I feel worse because I do not know the details, and of course feel terrible that I was not there to help. And what could I have done? Where do these predators live and are there many of them in urban areas like mine? This is awful.Bad enough having to fear humans with their culls and other violence, never mind bigger birds. I suppose the whole food chain is starving, but I never thought hawks lived in cities. Thanks.
Florence.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, they are here in the urban setting that I live in and many different
kinds as well. I've scared off several attempts at killiing and eating a pigeon
successfully by screaming, waving arms and running towards the hawk w/the
bird.....once I just stood up on a roof in a spot where a hawk was headed to
finish off the the kill and scared him enuf for him to loosen the grip and the
pij wiggled free and flew off. I hate to see them lost to a hawk attack, but
I can accept it as part of the circle of life, even though that's a tough one.

To tell you the truth....I'd rather lose a pij to a hawk than see them poisoned
or euthanized in anyway at the hands of a human.

fp


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

You are so brave, fp! Can hawks hurt humans? (So many of my passers-by are afraid even of pigeons! They DUCK! LOL) I know what you mean - but I do hope it is a quick death rather than a day of being eaten alive slowly. I hate the idea of poisoning by humans (I believe that can last 2 days...) but is there not some humane method of euthenasia (I mean mercy-death, as for cats - not 'culling') if a pigeon is suffering agony and terminal?
I just sent you an e-mail and hope I have the address right.
Florence.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

We have these telephone antenna's every 3 miles, hawks wait on them until someone releases there birds. its always the good high flyers that get caught.

it hurts but it nature and it our fault that the hawks are now in the city.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*re watching*

There are certain times when you must watch your birds. migrational patterns and breeding season for hawks. The one thing I noticed was that these birds seemed to be ones of habit. Try to take notes when you see them and where they came from.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2007)

hawks are a fact of a pigeons life be it a wild one or one from within a loft during a spell of free flight .. I too hate to think of them being eaten alive which is done quite often by them ..theres just no easy way around the life of a pigeon if its not one thing its another thats trying to keep them from sailing thru the so called friendly skies


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

A hawk would not normally hurt a human, however, if you are attacking it, it will certainly fight back with all its power. It is well equipped with beak and claw. Almost any bird (even my little parakeets) will fight back with everything they can if they are threatened. 

A hawk can no more help being a hawk than a pigeon can help being a pigeon. Every living thing occupies a place on the food chain and sooner or later we too become part of the "food" in that chain. Hawks were designed to be predators and they have to hunt to live. I don't have to like the fact that some hawks have to kill other species of birds to live, but I accept the fact that they evolved to prey on birds. I would much rather have a pigeon lose its life to a hawk than to most other fates that man has decreed for the pigeon. Do not lose sight of the fact that the raptor species and owls are still hunted (poached, mostly) by humans that don't like them. Birds, as a class, are probably the most abused of the warm blooded vertebrates. People desire their feathers, their meat, or they think birds steal / kill things (usually food) that belong to humans. Our species is not particularly forgiving of other species getting in our way.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I think the key may be in the fact that hawks may see man as predators themselves. I don't know this for a fact, but from the way they respond to
humans interupting them in the middle of trying to get their feed, it would seem 
this way. I never got the hit that I was in danger even though especially in one instance in San Francisco, the size of the hawk alone could have "set me back"
in life....lol.

fp


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

I wonder what food we could leave out for the hawks so that they will not predate the pigeons. 
Trouble is, maybe the pigeons would eat it. :-(
I hope the pigeons convert the hawks to veganism soon.  
Florence. 
PS I have tried feeding cat food (salmon) to the gulls (on nice clean paper plates!) but they just gave me a contemptuous squawk. :-( I thought it might be like fish for them. My cat wastes 3 out of every 12 pack of cat pouches because she does not like salmon. I give them to the cats home.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Florence,

The sparrowhawk has really thrived in recent years and can be found in most parts of the UK, in parks and gardens as well as woodland.

One of our members had a sparrowhawk kill a pigeon in her garden, so she offered it a defrosted chicken leg on his next visit, which it took. After that it would call regularly for its chicken leg and didn't kill another bird.

Their life expectancy is short.

This is hard for a pigeon lover to do, but if you find a half eaten bird then try to leave it where it is. The hawk will return to finish eating his prey and won't kill another bird for his next meal.

Cynthia


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks, Cynthia. I might try the chicken leg thing if my brotherhas leftovers and Grace does not want them - but the neighbours do moan about the chance of rats. My argument is that if the wild life arefed cleanly (like I do the birds, well, more or less - see my hygiene worries thread) then they will not tip out the bins (not even wheelie bins) for food when they are starving.
I see what you mean - leave a half-pigeon for the hawk's next meal. My instinct has always been to bury it (with full reverence) to honour it, but I could save its brother... Also I do worry about cats and dogs eating the carcass that is left in case they get germs or parasites, as the wild pigeons do have worms, I see them when I clean my window sill of their droppings. It's a lot to think about, isn't it? It helps to discuss all these worries with people who don't think I worry too much about such things. My brother tuts and says I am obsessed when I even mention birds now so I have nobody to talk to about birds who is sympathetic or interested - until I turn on my pc, that is!
Florence.
Florence.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

PS There is also the danger that encouraging hawks to my garden with raw chicken may mean they kill more pigeons. They might bring their flock of hawks and the chicken might not be enough.
It so goes against my grain to feed a hawk. Won't they breed and kill more pigeons? 
Florence


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## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

feralpigeon said:


> I think the key may be in the fact that hawks may see man as predators themselves. I don't know this for a fact, but from the way they respond to
> humans interupting them in the middle of trying to get their feed, it would seem
> this way. I never got the hit that I was in danger even though especially in one instance in San Francisco, the size of the hawk alone could have "set me back"
> in life....lol.
> ...


Just this spring I heard of a Buzzard attacking a chap here in the UK who was out jogging,he was scratched and quite bloody according to a newspaper report(if you believe newspapers that is).He was running down a country lane,so perhaps the Buzzard had a nearby nest and thought the human was a threat?


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## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

Florencevegan said:


> PS There is also the danger that encouraging hawks to my garden with raw chicken may mean they kill more pigeons. They might bring their flock of hawks and the chicken might not be enough.
> It so goes against my grain to feed a hawk. Won't they breed and kill more pigeons?
> Florence


Sparrow Hawks are very territorial so there wont be any more than a pair(during the breeding season) around your patch Florence,and then it`s usually the female Hawk that will take a pigeon,the male Hawks are smaller so don`t usually attempt to take birds bigger than a Thrush size bird.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> PS There is also the danger that encouraging hawks to my garden with raw chicken may mean they kill more pigeons. They might bring their flock of hawks and the chicken might not be enough.
> It so goes against my grain to feed a hawk. Won't they breed and kill more pigeons?


You would be offering a chicken leg as an alternative to the hawk taking a pigeon's life rather than as an alternative to starvation.

The effect that would have on the local sparrowhawk population would be exactly the same effect that a succesful kill of a pigeon or another bird would have.

Like Flitznowzoom I am saddened when I find a pigeon on my patch has been killed by a hawk, but it is needless human cruelty and destruction that really sickens me. I would never harm a sparrowhawk or wish harm on it, but I have told the local one that he or she is not welcome in my garden.

Cynthia


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## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

I have told the local one that he or she is not welcome in my garden.

Cynthia[/QUOTE]

Chuckle.I have also told our local Sparrow Hawk exactly the same thing Cynthia.Only i used stronger words to yours!!!!!!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

LOL. I am surprised that my language was so mild at the time. I heard a mournful wail and found he had caught a blackbird. I went running out shouting "Go away and never come back! You're not welcome here!"

He went, but sadly he took the blackbird with him.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Florence, it is sad but many cities bring in hawks to control the pigeon population. We currently have a fledgling pigeon that was wounded by a hawk but managed to get away; someone found it and took it to our vet and we then took over its care. It was a deep talon wound but has almost healed.

We encourage crows in our back yard. We have a family of about 7 who "live" with us. We feed them mostly soaked dog food, chicken and other meat every day, particularly during their nesting season. Crows will help keep hawks away - and believe me, they really do.

I can't help myself - I love hawks too and I don't like to see them eating other birds but that is nature. Not all hawks eat pigeons. Usually, it is the smaller hawks that fly very fast who will catch pigeons. In the winter, we have a pair of red shouldered hawks who come to our yard and eat with the crows. They have never bothered the pigeons and squirrels and other birds eat and play around them while they're eating. Our crows get mad at them and pull their tails for taking over their feed bowl.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

You might try the chicken routinue if the flock continues to be pestered on a regular basis. I, too, feed the wild predators that flit through the yard because there is so little food in their natural environment to support them. 
However, I may have to quit feeding the young, now on their own, foxes as they seem to be watching the bird feeders. I saw a few broken flicker (that's a woodpecker species that lives in my area) on the ground yesterday. The feral cats do not hunt the birds since they are well fed and I saw the foxes run at the doves this morning. 

Like Florence's cat, mine is quite finicky about what she will eat so the outdoor kitties do quite well. She has me well-trained. 
I figure a 20 pound bag of kitty kibble every two weeks is a good investment for the outdoor birds. Even the flickers and robins eat it.


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## Fever (May 28, 2007)

I never knew crows were so beneficial to pigeons, but it makes sense. I've seen how they form a horde and chase off hawks and owls. I've also seen pigeons do something similar - whenever a crow comes near their balcony, the pigeons gather in huge numbers near their nests and on the neighbour's rooftop. They don't attack or anything, just passively protest...

I wonder if fake crows would be any better at scaring away hawks than fake hawks are at scaring away pigeons.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re-the benefit of Crows*

I have a large crow called 'Buster' that rules my garden with an iron rod! He comes out of nowhere whenever I come back into the house after putting food out. He brings his 'wife' and youngster to hoover up, but although he won't allow any other birds to land, the pigeons take no notice of him and it seems like an unwritten law that they can share the goodies.

In the field next door, I've seen Sparrow Hawks and a pair of Buzzards, but I notice that whenever they are hunting or just gliding around, it is the crows that are hassling them. They fly right up close and almost seem to butt them, so they don't get things all their own way.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

My wild ones are a bit scared of a crow that comes, but I will tell them he will protect them from the hawks. :-D I love the way the crow picks up some crumbs, walks the long way round the pigeons line to the water bowl, and dunks his bread in the water! Dunkin' Crowcrumbs! The shape of restaurants to come! LOL
F


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