# Doves and kittens



## Seijun (Apr 14, 2010)

Anyone have experience raising a kitten with an adult dove or pigeon?

I am thinking of getting a kitten, but I already have a 200g, 1.5-year-old male collared dove who thinks he owns the house. He has free roam of my apartment both day and night except when I am at work. 

If anyone has any advice to give, it would be much appreciated. If it's possible to raise a kitten to live in peace with a pij or dove, what would be the minimum age for cat-bird socialization to start? (if I get a kitten, it would need to be weaned from mom, so already 8-12 weeks old).


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

The only advice I can give you is don't try it!

Cats are hunters by nature, and however accepting a cat may _seem_ to be of a bird, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Sure, we maybe know of 'somebody' with a cat that would never hurt a pet bird .... yet.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Cats also have bacteria in their saliva that can kill a bird from the slightest scratch.
Kittens and cats are very playful & even a playful swipe can lead to major problems for the bird.


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## Heedictator (May 19, 2011)

i have had 8 cats(also reached up to 12+ together with kittens) & 3 dogs before and up to 40+ pigeons and they do just really fine~ i've had the pigeons first as my pets for about 8 years now and had cats for about more than 7 years now and i have not known and thought of them catching a pigeon for meal~ my cats did not, do not and will not try to catch one of my pigeons as a food just like it's "eew" to them~ and most often or always they will act afraid in front of an angry pigeon who is crazy for a food!! they may step backwards and draw their claws to defend themselves against my pigeons but they will always runaway instead~ maybe you just have to start peting a kitten living together with pigeons to make them have this mentality~ today i only have about 30+ pigeons and 5 cats and the only girl is pregnant and 2 dogs~~ it's really sad that cats have a bad reputation to most of other pigeon owners especially on other places .. but to a dove for it's smaller size.. we must think twice! they may view it like a small toy and end up as a food or they will really view it as a food. but who knows you can make it and there have been lot's of small bird-cat stories

and also most of my pigeons are "walkers" and "semi-fliers" since they have been roaming around the neighborhood and they even go to a nearby neighbor to feed, i decided to pull off some of their primaries to prevent them from being stolen from flying and roaming around for food(since most of them are tame especially when fed) anyways there are no predator problems here and i've been doing it since i had my first pigeon/s^^ they love walking around and they are fast runners!^^ *i didn't have a single dead pigeon from being attacked by my cats*


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Heedictator said:


> i have had 8 cats(also reached up to 12+ together with kittens) & 3 dogs before and up to 40+ pigeons and they do just really fine~ i've had the pigeons first as my pets for about 8 years now and had cats for about more than 7 years now and i have not known and thought of them catching a pigeon for meal~ my cats did not, do not and will not try to catch one of my pigeons as a food just like it's "eew" to them~ and most often or always they will act afraid in front of an angry pigeon who is crazy for a food!! they may step backwards and draw their claws to defend themselves against my pigeons but they will always runaway instead~ maybe you just have to start peting a kitten living together with pigeons to make them have this mentality~ today i only have about 30+ pigeons and 5 cats and the only girl is pregnant and 2 dogs~~ it's really sad that cats have a bad reputation to most of other pigeon owners especially on other places .. but to a dove for it's smaller size.. we must think twice! they may view it like a small toy and end up as a food or they will really view it as a food. but who knows you can make it and there have been lot's of small bird-cat stories
> 
> and also most of my pigeons are "walkers" and "semi-fliers" since they have been roaming around the neighborhood and they even go to a nearby neighbor to feed, i decided to pull off some of their primaries to prevent them from being stolen from flying and roaming around for food(since most of them are tame especially when fed) anyways there are no predator problems here and i've been doing it since i had my first pigeon/s^^ they love walking around and they are fast runners!^^ *i didn't have a single dead pigeon from being attacked by my cats*


You seem to have been very lucky with your pigeons & cats.
Yes, some can & do live in harmony, as long as each is happy with the others existence and is not bothered by each others presence or annoyances.
From a general point of view it is only fair to warn people of the consequences which sadly can happen more often or not, not nessessarily always fatal, but that is a definate possibility.
As John has said, cats are hunters by nature (and also inquisative), yes, if they are content, happy and fed, then sometimes that is enough to keep those natural instincts at bay, however that is all it does, it doesent stop that instinct coming through in a moment of fear, fright or unexpected shock.
No matter how docile a cat or dog is, it doesnt change the fact that its saliva contains bacteria which, if it gets into a birds system, can rapidly make a bird ill & cause it to die.
It is up to any individual to look at the different advice given and act accordingly, if they are prepared to take the risk with the care & wellbeing of their birds that is up to them, sadly, the birds cannot choose themselves.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

We have 2 cats, 1 (16-year-old mostly blind) dog, 8 doves (4 diamonds, 4 ringneck), 2 finches, and 1 parakeet. It's a delicate balance keeping the cats away from the smaller birds. (They WANT the diamond doves and finches--such that these must be kept behind closed doors where the cats can't go.) 

The ringnecks and parakeet are also kept in off-limits-to-kitties rooms to avoid the what-ifs (one of the cats is extremely curious--an accident could happen even if she didn't intend to eat a bird, though I can see her deciding that at some point.) We take the birds out when we have the cats put away. 

If you have a very sturdy cage or a spare room to keep animals in when you play with other animals and/or to keep them separate when you are gone, you might be ok having a kitty around, but it could get very interesting. 

Sometimes they get along just fine--but I've been scratched enough accidentally by my cats to know that even if they loved the bird as their buddy with every fiber of their being, a scratch could easily still happen and cause infection. 

Oh, also birds wings fluttering, and birds being lower than the cat or much higher up, tend to cause instinctive predatory responses from our cats and from my boyfriend's cats. If you do choose to get a kitty, really keep an eye on this (if you have them out all at once.)

If you decide to do cat-bird socialization, (it's risky--so do be warned), I would start right off the bat. Don't force interest in the bird on the cat--you want the cat to be bored by the bird really. I have a friend who has a parakeet and 2 cats who does fine having everyone out at once. One cat is terrified of the keet, the other just doesn't care. Try not to get a cat who was raised by an outside-cat mommy. Our kitten who was raised by a little huntress has become one herself. Her mommy trained her very well and she knows exactly what birds are. Our other cat doesn't really know what to think of the ringnecks (though his predatory response is still triggered by them fluttering too much), and he does take interest in the finches. (You can see this predatory response in a slightly more crouched/tight/ready to pounce body position, dilated eyes, sometimes flatter ears, sometimes a small mna mna or click click noise.) 

Oh, and if you decide that this could work out for you, maybe get a very laid-back breed of kitty--like a ragdoll cat.

http://www.petfinder.com/cat-breeds/Ragdoll
http://rfwclub.org/

If you need clarification on anything I've said that comes off weird, please ask. I'm sleepy right now and I'm sure this is a crazy-sounding ramble of a post.


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## Heedictator (May 19, 2011)

cats with small birds is a different talk~


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## Heedictator (May 19, 2011)

is it scientifically proven that saliva or even just a small quantity of saliva from cats and dogs could kill pigeons~?? well my pigeons loves to eat rice once in a day and they really find it~ i give them daily and some of my cats would try their luck and eat the rice with them~ or sometimes when my cats are eating rice outside the house they would go crazy and rush onto my cats plate and the cat will poorly run away leaving their food to the pigeons!! and nothing goes wrong all the time!!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Heedictator said:


> is it scientifically proven that saliva or even just a small quantity of saliva from cats and dogs could kill pigeons~?? well my pigeons loves to eat rice once in a day and they really find it~ i give them daily and some of my cats would try their luck and eat the rice with them~ or sometimes when my cats are eating rice outside the house they would go crazy and rush onto my cats plate and the cat will poorly run away leaving their food to the pigeons!! and nothing goes wrong all the time!!


YES, ..........are you just looking for excuses for your ignorance. ?
It has been said countless times on this site as to WHY you should always be preventive, and take extreme care.

Try googling Cat or Dog Saliva, Bacteria, Pasteurella etc.

One of the many bacteria that is carried in the saliva of cats is called *Pasteurella.* 
Although Pasteurella is harmless to cats, dogs and humans, it's lethal for birds. 
Birds can die within *24 hours* after being bitten by a cat because the bacteria multiplies rapidly, spreading throughout a bird's entire system
Birds that are attacked by cats need to be tested & treated with the appropriate antibiotics that *same day or they will die. *
Sometimes there are no visible wounds on a bird after being attacked or pawed by a cat or dog. 
The bird may have tiny puncture wounds and scratches on the body, caused by sharp teeth or claws, that are hidden by feathers, as well as broken bones. 
Birds should also be taken to an avian vet if they are touched by a cat's or dog's paws or if they come in contact with their food, toys or litter box, which also harbor harmful bacteria. (*Note: *Wash your hands with soap or use a hand sanitizer after handling cats, dogs or another species of animal to prevent you from transferring harmful bacteria to your bird.)

The above details are actually taken from a CAT website.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I just got a sweet kitten.... and if I still had my doves ...she would be all over the cage tying to get at them and play or pretend hunt..they can't help it.. they see a bird move and insticts tell them to go get it... I think if you can keep the bird in a closed bedroom it may be fine ..but then it may be lonely in there if the bird is used to being out and feeling safe...a cat or kitten peering in their cage can cause much stress to the bird.


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