# URGENT! Found Feral With Bleeding, Broken Wing!



## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

After reading so many stories here of people helping pigeons in need I decided to walk around the old part of my city and check out the lives of the pigeons. 

Inside a parking garage, I found a pigeon with one wing hanging low running from me but not taking flight! I read that if you can easily catch a pigeon that means something is wrong. 

I easily caught the pigeon and noticed the wing appears to be broken near a joint. The wing is bleeding from that area I rinsed the pigeon and gave it water and seed.

I don't know what to do next! I want to continue helping this poor pigeon. How can I fix the wing?

The pigeon appears to still have a couple of yellow down feathers sticking out around the head but looks fully grown otherwise. The eyes are orange. The pigeon does squeak when it seems to be afraid.

=(


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

I got brave and put some gloves on and inspected the wing. There is a big bloody//very green spot. It looks like gangrene? What do I do!?!?! How do I save this pigeon. Someone please reply quickly. I can also feel a sharp bone near the crop, does that indicate low weight?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

It is a fledgling and probably still being fed by a parent bird and learning how to find grains. The wing could be injured or possible salmonella disease which can cause boils or abscesses on joints, it's hard to say if this is keeping him grounded or if he is just too young.

I would make another thread in search of a rehabber near you, state rehabber needed and location.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Read the post . Calm down and keep the pigeon quiet.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> It is a fledgling and probably still being fed by a parent bird and learning how to find grains. The wing could be injured or possible salmonella disease which can cause boils or abscesses on joints, it's hard to say if this is keeping him grounded or if he is just too young.
> 
> I would make another thread in search of a rehabber near you, state rehabber needed and location.


His injury is what's grounding him. He appears to be over 35 days old. Orange eyes. I just watched a pigeon grow up in a spare room I have and this pigeons wing is hurt badly.

I'll try to find a rehabber. This pigeon seems like it needs immediate help though.

There is active bleeding and green color near the injury location.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

It sounds infected, yes you are there, we are not so you know first hand what it looks like. Use life saving techniques, like heat and hydration first to stabilize the bird. Then post a search for a rehabber near your location.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If it is bleeding, it should be stopped immediately. I have seen a bird dying because of excess bleeding after caught by a ceiling fan. He needs to be hand fed if doesn't eat on his own, if his keel bone is sharp, he isn't getting enough food. For hand feeding you can use defrosted frozen peas or corns and thaw then under hot water to get them to warm /normal and feed one by one. 
Keep him warm and hydrated. If you don't know how to feed, I will post the complete process with video. 
Can you pls post the bird's pic with injured wing? 
Secondly while finding the rehab, make sure they just don't euthanize the bird thinking it is non releasable, many rehabbed and vets just Euthanize even when there are chances to heal. Pls take care of him and write back for any confusion.
Thanks for your care and concern for pigeons. Hope he recovers.

Edit: Also check www.pigeonrescue.co.uk and go to "caring for baby pigeon" section, you will find it very informative for your purpose.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Here are the 1st steps to saving the birds life: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html 

Here is the link on caring/feeding a baby pigeon: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm

Then find a local pigeon/bird rehabber or an avian vet, that is what this bird needs. 

Your threads have been merged. PLEASE from now on only start one thread on the same subject, as it gets confusing.

Thank you.*


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

*Hand feeding*

If you need to feed peas/corns to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed. Start with about 35 defrosted and warmed peas. Warm, not hot. Do that maybe 3 times a day, but let the crop empty between times.
Remember frozen defrosted peas/corns should be thawed under hot water to make them warm/normal from in and outside both. Never give hot/cold stuff to any bird. 

This video link will help you further to understand the process on how to do it(tho this is not in lap but you can get an idea, how to open his beak. If you put him in lap, it will be more easy(if he flaps much you can wrap him in towel to feed)). In start you will see small seeds being fed and in later part, the pigeon is being fed on peanuts. Pea/corns will be fed in the very same way as peanuts. 

https://youtu.be/9ZqI8idx-SQ

Hope it helps.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

This pigeon is able to eat and drink on his own. Hes taking seed and drinking water. How do I fix this wing myself? Meds? Sewing? Bandage? You name it. I'm prepared for it.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Update: Green droppings


After eating some food the pigeon isnt cowering in fear any more. He is now looking up at me out of his box. When I washed him in the sink (he was covered in waste and blood) he immediately plunged his beak in and started drinking. I think he's better hydrated now and fed. I'm going to pick up more seed and figure out what to do next. The local bird rehabber I'm not too sure about. They haven't even returned my call. Is there anything I can do to help this poor pigeon's wing? I'm trying to get pictures of the injury but my phone is lost.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If wing is broken, needs to be taped. If seems infected, needs medicines.
Without pics it is hard to understand. 
If you can take him to an avian vet, it might work for him better but remember what my signature says about vets.

Also if you can give him vitamins in water, it would be helpful or ACV in water.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Either the wing is broken or there is an injury, the bird needs antibiotics against infection. I never used oral antibiotics in such situation, only injectable which solve the situation for sure but maybe is possible with oral aswell, in which case amoxicillin are the best solution. 

Here is a guide to identify if a bone is broken and how to fix it, as well as suplimentary info about fractures:
https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf

Green droppings indicate bowel infection, usually coccidiosis (which causes dehydration and extreme thirst) or salmonella (also causes thrist), which will kill the bird in hours or days without injectable antibiotic. Posting on forum some photos with the wounds and droppings would help.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Here are some pictures of the injured pigeon. The rehabilitator doesn't seem very trustworthy and I'm afraid she will just kill the pigeon. How should I proceed?


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Here are the requested pictures. I talked to the rehabilitator but I don't trust her. I'm worried she might kill the pigeon. Please let me know how I should proceed.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Why, what has she said?

Ask the rehabber what she intends to do with the pigeon, and do not relinquish the bird to her if she will euthanize it. If the wing is not repairable, the bird will need a home.

Has she ever worked on pigeons? Most of the pigeon rehabbers I know are very pigeon friendly and knowledgable and will find a home for the bird if it cannot fly, or even keep it themselves. *


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Skyeking said:


> *Why, what has she said?
> 
> Ask the rehabber what she intends to do with the pigeon, and do not relinquish the bird to her if she will euthanize it. If the wing is not repairable, the bird will need a home.
> 
> Has she ever worked on pigeons? Most of the pigeon rehabbers I know are very pigeon friendly and knowledgable and will find a home for the bird if it cannot fly, or even keep it themselves. *



She said she wouldnt tell me until she saw it. She killed the last pigeon she had because nobody would adopt it, I guess. Shes a general wildlife rehabber not pigeon specific.

Does anyone have any comments on the pictures I posted? If this pigeon needs medicine, surgery, or bandaging I'm prepared to begin as soon as I know what's required.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Beautiful bird! Hope you can give antibiotics and tape the wing. Our beloved Phoebe had much worse injuries and survived and prospered. Pigeons are tough. It is a great sign that the bird is eating and drinking. Please don't give up, you're doing a great job helping.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Some of the droppings look like starvation droppings. You need to get more food into her. Feeding frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed is the easiest way. You would feed one at a time, let her swallow, then give another, and so forth. 

As far as the wing, hard to tell the damage from here, but a vet would be helpful there. Even when wrapped, the wing doesn't often heal properly when broken, enough that the bird would fly well enough to be released. May have to become a pet. 
Antibiotics would be good at this point, and could be gotten at a vet or online, but that would take longer. And cleaning the injury with warm saline, and applying some Neosporin creme would be good. It may be injured and not broken, but like I said, hard to tell from here.

Without a vet and X Rays, the best you could do is a figure 8 wrap to keep the wing in a more natural position as it heals. That is if it is broken.

Also, if you are going to give peanuts to the bird, please chop them up to small pieces. Those pieces are too large and could cause a blockage.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you can go to an avian vet, it would be good but if not wrap the wing like figure 8 

http://youtu.be/B_mzQg8Prok
https://youtu.be/B-DeKA0gRLg

You have to bring the wing to normal position and then wrap like in videos. 

You can't get antibiotics there without vet appointment probably so how are you going to deal with infection I don't know. Cleaning with saline solution is necessary and putting neosporin as advised.
Also if he doesn't eat sufficient on his own, pls handfeed him as told.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Thank you so much for the help and replies. 


I'll clean the wound and apply neosporin today. I will also attempt to wrap the wing. I'm going to call the vets around here and see if they can provide me the medicine I need without breaking the bank. Can I use human antibiotics and measure the dose smaller?

Thanks again.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Human equivalent to enrofloxacin (Baytril) is ciprofloxacin and if you can get it, it will do.
Tell us if you get that, we will tell about the dosage.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We had a bird for eight years, Phoebe, who had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated when we got her. She healed quickly and was the most loving creature imaginable. Your bird just needs TLC, antibiotics, and a wing wrap. Please do not give him to anyone who might euthanize him as he can have a quality life. There are people and organizations who adopt special needs pigeons.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Well you can adopt this young bird , give him/her a name and then try to find a vet that will treat birds and get an exam, they would probably give you an antibiotic . Let the pigeon eat all he wants and leave water in a crock he can't tip over and deep enough for his beak. 

If you don't want to adopt this young one then, IF can you could find a broad spectrum antibiotic that is used for birds to give him a course to protect from infection would be a choice. Or wait and see with rest and food and water he may heal well on his own. If he was injured by say a cat then he may be worse off form the cat saliva bacteria, but so far he is not succumbing to that.


WARNING, wrapping a wing not knowing really what kind of injury it is could cause permanent handicapping. Really , if it even needs to be wrapped their needs to be an exam by a professional. Well meaning people can give bad advice and share links, but if your arm was broken I'm sure you wouldn't do it yourself from an Internet tutorial


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Spiritwings is right in that if you don't have a vets x ray to go by, then could be done wrong. But if vet is not possible, then getting it in the correct position to hold in place is better than nothing. If you do wrap though, use vet wrap or a stretchy self adhesive bandage and don't pull it too tightly. When you go around the birds body, you go under the good wing, and not too tightly or he won't be able to breath well or eat. Unwrap in a weeks time to let him move the wing for a while, or it can freeze in place. Their bones heal very quickly, and not moving it at all can make it freeze in place. If needed, it can be wrapped for a few more days. But of course, a vet would be best, as they can x ray and see every bone and what is going on.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> Well you can adopt this young bird , give him/her a name and then try to find a vet that will treat birds and get an exam, they would probably give you an antibiotic . Let the pigeon eat all he wants and leave water in a crock he can't tip over and deep enough for his beak.
> 
> If you don't want to adopt this young one then, IF can you could find a broad spectrum antibiotic that is used for birds to give him a course to protect from infection would be a choice. Or wait and see with rest and food and water he may heal well on his own. If he was injured by say a cat then he may be worse off form the cat saliva bacteria, but so far he is not succumbing to that.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with this warning. Had to give the advice as everyone is not able to approach an avian vet for a feral bird and if no avian vet, what should be the solution, if you pls guide?


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

I can't afford the avian vet and it sounds too risky to care for the pigeon myself so I'll try to take it to the local rehabber. She hasn't returned my call and I get a bad vibe but I don't see what choice I have. It sounds like the pigeon's best chance.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

Here are two more pictures in case they help someone identify the problem. I rinsed the wound with saline and applied some neosporine to the wound. It's no longer bleeding. 


http://imgur.com/a/Eui82


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Just make sure they just don't euthanize the bird saying it can't fly forever so disabled feral birds shouldn't be kept in captivity. 
Even may be for some euthanasia is better than captivity tho to me many feral disabled birds live happily there. 
So to euthanize is not a solution for this bird.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Astounding said:


> Here are two more pictures in case they help someone identify the problem.
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/Eui82


Sadly it seems just like a broken wing. As you can see no vets and if rehabber wants to euthanize the bird, I find no other solution but figure 8 but since that is a bad advice, will have to wait for a better one.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

kiddy said:


> Sadly it seems just like a broken wing. As you can see no vets and if rehabber wants to euthanize the bird, I find no other solution but figure 8 but since that is a bad advice, will have to wait for a better one.


If I paid for the vet would this pigeon fly free again? It's 100s of dollars. I found this pigeon in a parking garage. I couldn't just leave it but I can't afford the vet. I wanted a pet pigeon but in black and domestic. I would keep this pigeon but it's very feral and wouldn't be a good pet I don't think. It would be more of a sanctuary and I'm not really equipped for that. Thr best outcome would be for this poor pigeon to return to it's flock. What do I do?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nobody could be sure of guaranteed heal as far as I know but his best chances are with avian vet that too shouldn't euthanize him else everything is over. Vets too euthanize feral birds easily. 
If he is not black and not domestic even then he feels the same pain as they feel, he has the same needs as they can have sometimes. I wouldn't differentiate between black and grey, feral and domestic, a life is a life no matter how ugly or how beautiful, feels the same pain, has the same need. He has nobody now, just you. You shouldn't differentiate him with black and domestic, he needs you this time. 
Even feral pigeons make good pets, ask cwebster how was Phoebe. We all felt pain of that feral pigeon when she was gone. She was one in million as cwebster tells us.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

I gave the pigeon to the rehabber and she's giving it medication and splinting the broken wing. If the pigeon can fly again she will release it back where I found it. If not and I'm unable to build an aviary she will euthanize the pigeon. She doesn't believe in pigeons as pets or that it could tame up and will only release to conditions of her choosing. I didn't have the medications required to take care of this pigeon or the money to take it to a vet so this seems like the best option for the pigeon. Thank you for all of the help.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Astounding said:


> I gave the pigeon to the rehabber and she's giving it medication and splinting the broken wing. If the pigeon can fly again she will release it back where I found it. If not and I'm unable to build an aviary she will euthanize the pigeon. She doesn't believe in pigeons as pets or that it could tame up and will only release to conditions of her choosing. I didn't have the medications required to take care of this pigeon or the money to take it to a vet so this seems like the best option for the pigeon. Thank you for all of the help.


Can't you take him back and find a home for him if he can't fly? You caught the pigeon and you are ready for the second situation? Pls do not catch the pigeon to help next time if it goes like this? Why can't you find a home for him with a little effort?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

that green stuff does not look good


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> Can't you take him back and find a home for him if he can't fly? You caught the pigeon and you are ready for the second situation? Pls do not catch the pigeon to help next time if it goes like this? Why can't you find a home for him with a little effort?



Kiddy, you aren't being fair. We don't know his situation, and he didn't have the means to pay for a vet or meds. And finding a home for a handicapped pigeon is not easy, especially a feral pigeon. I'm sorry for the bird too, but at least he won't be left by himself to starve to death, or get caught by predators. Life isn't fair, and doesn't always turn out as we would like. At least he didn't leave the bird there to die a slow death. If he didn't really want the bird, and couldn't find a home for it, then it wouldn't have had a very good life. Sometimes euthanizing is kinder.

Astounding, thank you for not leaving him there alone, and for trying to help. I know you did what you felt you had to.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

These are just questions. People here don't sound good to even members who try to help and they even don't care about it. We all know how we talk to each other without thinking everyone is trying their best. 
I completely understand poster's situation but why can't they think of a little effort to rehome the bird? Can it be really that hard to keep him for a month or two and find a home? For this poster who is trying to help this bird, I don't get it will be too hard. So why to just give up without trying? 
What the poster did was really good and I had no doubt since start but to leave this bird is not good. Kindest is to find him a home.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with kiddy. If the bird can't be released he likely will have a great life if adopted by someone as a pet. There are people like us who would love to have such a beautiful feral who becomes a pet. Phoebe was the very greatest, happiest bird in the universe. If you get the bird fixed up, please tell the rehab person that you will try to find a home for the bird. Lots of people would love to have a nonreleasable feral. They are lovely and loving creatures. Please try. If the pigeon cannot fly, you don't need a large aviary. If it can fly, release it. Don't let someone euthanize the lovely creature. Phoebe lived in a flight cage indoors with us and seemed delighted every day to be with us. She was always cheerful and happy and our lives were so much better sharing each day with her. Please try! She sat on our shoulders, played, loved just spending time with us. She was nearly decapitated and recovered nicely. A wing wound is likely repairable. Pigeons are tough.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks cwebster for explaining how Phoebe even being disabled lived happily with you. 

Astounding, since I have been pointed out to be unfair to you, if you ever feel it since my first post to last, I sincerely apologize. I have no intentions to hurt anyone here, it is just sometimes situations seem very awful and if you feel I have hurt you, just to let you know that I have had tears for this bird already many times, hope you aren't hurt that much. Telling these things in forums is foolishness because no one is going to understand such feelings rather they will make fun of it how a person from thousand of miles think so deeply for a feral bird. 
I pray that you think a little more about him. 
I am sorry for anything I said offensive and I really mean it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

You can examine the wing to see if there is a broken bone and which one, than make a splint according to what bone is broken. Here is an illustrated guide from the link I gave previously:





































These are the pages about wing but there are other pages with general info about caring fractures, which* is necessary to be read entirely*, as there are many vital info about things to do and things not to do:

https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

*Continuation*

























These qare the pages about wing but there are other pages with general info about caring fractures, which* is necessary to be read entirely*, as there are many vital info about things to do and things not to do:


https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf












.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You guys are too much. Kiddy,this is what you said:
Pls do not catch the pigeon to help next time if it goes like this? Why can't you find a home for him with a little effort?
So you are saying to just leave the bird there, if you cannot commit to the long haul?
Can you not understand that what some can do, others can not? I think he was getting overwhelmed with trying to do all the things that were needed. And he couldn't afford a vet. Also in the real world, not many people want to adopt a disabled feral pigeon. You maybe would take a bird like that, but most won't. And not all adopted disabled birds are going to find a good home. Many are just wasting away in a cage and miserable. Better off euthanized. 

Andrei, you are sending that info now, when the poster obviously couldn't do all that, and most couldn't. 

cwebster, not everyone will take care of a disabled bird like you would. And to take one on, knowing that it was disabled and going to be time consuming and work, is not what most will do. 

Not everyone wants a pet pigeon in the house. They are work, and they are messy, and you have to be able to devote a lot of time in out of cage time for the bird. Not everyone has that kind of time or space. The bird often ends up alone and neglected when the person gets tired of it. A good life is unlikely.

Do you guys really not see that he did try to help the bird? Just by catching him when he could have left him there to die alone, and bringing him to someone who can try to help. That is much more than many would do. And yet, you expect more of him. Maybe he doesn't have that to give. Can you not see what he did do that was good?
If this were an injured stray dog, and someone found it and brought it to a shelter, where if it didn't find a home, it could be euthanized, everyone would think he did a good thing. 
Taking care of this bird is more than he can do or wants to do, and finding a home for 
a feral pigeon is not easy. If he remains disabled, even harder. And it's quality of life would be questionable. Can you see that? We are all different, and if you have to try to make someone do what they don't want to do, or are not prepared to do, then the animal suffers anyway. It is sad, of course it is, but unfortunately bad things do happen to animals, and not all can be saved. An animal lives in the moment, and doesn't think beyond that. Euthanizing is not always the worst thing that can happen to them. Suffering and being neglected is far worse.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I questioned on poster's efforts in giving up so soon without trying to find a home. Even difficult things can be achieved with efforts. 
I did say that "pls don't catch next time if things go like this " means I related my request to not catch a pigeon with "if" it is to be euthanized without efforts of finding him a home. 
Not everyone wants a pet bird but the poster already wants a black and domestic, Keeping this in mind I said to keep him for 1-2 months and try to find a home. 
I knew from poster's very early post that they can't afford a vet, so suggested figure 8 which was a bad advice. 
Now if with any of my efforts I am trying that poster understands the need to get a home for him, you have caught a sentence and after even my apologies to the poster you aren't able to consider that I am just wanting and trying that poster can find a home for him. Even I can try through Facebook if poster tells me the exact whereabouts. 
Nobody knows who will own him if adopted, but I know many in this world are better carer than me and cwebster, we aren't the end of the world. If there are people who don't care for anything, there are also who care to heights. If we have possibilities for him to not get adopted, there are even possibilities of caring owners. 
Then why to give up in start? Why not to try? 
You have been hopeless seeing things on this forum but I am not. I haven't seen this much yet or I even dont want to see only negatives of this world. 
If you felt so bad about the poster and my words, I even say sorry to you Jay, can you pls forgive me and try and understand I am just trying to help the bird finding a home because for me euthanasia to a healthy disabled bird is not an option. To me it is just like killing me if I accidentally loose one of my legs. 
If you think kinder is to euthanize a healthy disabled bird, I may understand it as your opinion but if I say euthanasia to a healthy disabled bird is not an option for me, why you don't try to understand it as my opinion?
I believe in trying so let me try please. I request you to not make me feel helpless if you can understand a bit what I am trying to do here.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

AndreiS, thank you for posting the info about fixing a broken wing. Kiddy, agree that a disabled pet bird is a better option than a dead euthanized bird. Will hope that the poster will get the bird from the rehab person if it is nonreleasable and look for a home. Am sad that people don't see the lives of pigeons as important. If we had a broken arm or our loved ones we would get it fixed even if would never be quite the same as before the break. Phoebe taught us how a disabled creature can enjoy life to the fullest.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> I questioned on poster's efforts in giving up so soon without trying to find a home. Even difficult things can be achieved with efforts. I did say that "pls don't catch next time if things go like this " means I related my request to not catch a pigeon with "if" it is to be euthanized without efforts of finding him a home.
> 
> So you are saying, as I have already mentioned, to just leave the bird there with a broken wing for a cat to grab, if he isn't going to keep the pigeon and have it treated and find a home, no matter how long it takes. That doesn't make any sense. He did what he could do. Maybe you can do more, but he couldn't.
> Not everyone wants a pet bird but the poster already wants a black and domestic, Keeping this in mind I said to keep him for 1-2 months and try to find a home.
> ...


*
*

What you are doing, is trying to control someone else, and to make them do what you would do. You need to respect their needs and feelings as well. They did what they could. You can't accept that. If the bird gets better, then he will be released. If not then he will be euthanized and won't know the difference. It will not bother the bird. It will only bother you. The bird will not know the difference.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Disagree, Jay3, that because birds live in the moment, that they won't "mind being euthanized." People who do this are sadly controlling the destiny of a dependent creature who is relying on them for kindness and gets death in return. We too live in the moment and we would not want to be euthanized. And don't think kiddy is wrong in beleving that disabled creatures, including us, deserve and can have a quality of life. I agree totally. There are centers like Palomacy and the sanctuary Koomori has described where people provide this for disabled birds. There should be more places like that. There may be one close to poster. It just takes having an open heart and compassion. It is sad when people don't see that...which is the kind of attitude that is responsible for many ills in the world and climate change that is threatening all life on our planet.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

All pigeons in the U.S.are descended from domestic stock, there are no "wild" pigeons here. When acquired young they make fine pets no different than my flock I bought, only difference it was hatched outside of a loft environment . The best thing was for this pigeon to find that rehabber but she needs to understand pigeons are unique and not always treated like the wildLife birds protected species here in the U.S. pigeons can be feral or domestic and really a domestic life extends their life with regular food ,water, and shelter.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Yes I agree give the dude a break. Lol..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Disagree, Jay3, that because birds live in the moment, that they won't "mind being euthanized." People who do this are sadly controlling the destiny of a dependent creature who is relying on them for kindness and gets death in return. We too live in the moment and we would not want to be euthanized. And don't think kiddy is wrong in beleving that disabled creatures, including us, deserve and can have a quality of life. I agree totally. There are centers like Palomacy and the sanctuary Koomori has described where people provide this for disabled birds. There should be more places like that. There may be one close to poster. It just takes having an open heart and compassion. It is sad when people don't see that...which is the kind of attitude that is responsible for many ills in the world and climate change that is threatening all life on our planet.




They don't even know that they are being euthanized. They do live in the moment. They know _now_. We don't. We plan on a future and expect that we will have one.
You cannot compare a disabled person to a disabled bird. A disabled person would have no quality of life, if they just sat in a cage by themselves for most of the day, with no other humans around, and nothing to do but watch the paint peel. Comparing them is ridiculous.
There are very few places around that will care for disabled birds, and even ones that do, don't usually want feral pigeons.
I never said that a disabled bird doesn't deserve a good quality of life. And I never said that it is not possible for them to have one.
I never said she was wrong in wanting that for the pigeon. Anyone would want that for all living things. What I said was that expecting someone else to take on the responsibility for the long haul if it takes that long, is not fair. We all do what we can. And we all have different limits. Putting your limits and expectations on another person is wrong. What he did was more than many would do. He took the bird and when he realized he was over his head in caring for it, he took it to a rehabber that may be able to help. Expecting him to do more than what he can do is pointless. He did what he could do.
You feel that it is sadly controlling the destiny of a dependent creature who is relying on us for kindness? What would you call it when said creature is kept alive no matter what life he must live, simply because somebody believes that having life is always better than not?
Having an open heart and compassion is fine, but you cannot put your limits on others. Everyone has their own limits. That is what we were talking about here. Not whether the bird deserves quality of life or not. It was about one person trying to dictate to another person how they should feel, and how much they should give of themselves.
__________________

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Astounding said:


> I gave the pigeon to the rehabber and she's giving it medication and splinting the broken wing. If the pigeon can fly again she will release it back where I found it. If not and I'm unable to build an aviary she will euthanize the pigeon. She doesn't believe in pigeons as pets or that it could tame up and will only release to conditions of her choosing. I didn't have the medications required to take care of this pigeon or the money to take it to a vet so this seems like the best option for the pigeon. Thank you for all of the help.




All pigeons in the U.S.are descended from domestic stock, there are no "wild" pigeons here. When acquired young they make fine pets no different than my flock I bought, only difference it was hatched outside of a loft environment . The best thing was for this pigeon to find that rehabber but she needs to understand pigeons are unique and not always treated like the wildLife birds protected species here in the U.S. pigeons can be feral or domestic and really a domestic life extends their life with regular food ,water, and shelter.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

A domestic life doesn't have to be sitting watching paint peel. Disabled creatures can be given an enriched environment and housed together and be happy and like spiritwings said, can enjoy a longer life than in the wild. I have 18 year old tree frogs, who would normally live a year or two in the wild. They have a little community, all the creature comforts, and seem quite happy. One, Gimpy, is disabled...lost the ability to walk but gradually regained it, vet isn't sure why. If you just euthanize any basically happy, viable living thing for convenience, you are depriving them of the opportunity to experience joy and most living things seem to want very much to keep on living. When you reach your limit in caring for any living thing that depends on you, I think the right thing to do is rehome it, not euthanize it. Every creature deserves the chance to feel like it is "dancing in the rain." Providing happiness to living things is why we are all here in adoration of pigeons, which sadly some humans haven't learned to see yet as very special.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

People said the pigeon needed medicine I didn't have access to. I couldn't afford to take the pigeon to a vet, they said it would be over 150 dollars. I don't have that kind of money, I'm happy for those who do. I don't see anyone here who offered to pay for the vet. Lots of criticizing me though. I wasn't going to leave the pigeon to die. But to tell me to keep it with a broken wing and an infection while I try to find a home for it? That's torture. It could die from infection or the wing could heal incorrectly and any chance of flight lost. It's nonsense to suggest I should have kept the bird. I did what I thought was the best chance of the pigeons survival, taking it to someone who could provide it the medical care it required. 

As for ferals as pets, she is the one who doesn't believe they can make good pets. I never said that. I asked her if I could adopt it if it couldn't be released and she said NO without a full aviary. Let's just say it was a less than friendly interaction. Criticizing me for helping this pigeon is wrong.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Astounding, am glad you rescued and helped the bird. You did the right thing. Am just unhappy because many rehabbers are unwilling to give disabled birds a chance at life. Some will treat and release, some will adopt out the nonreleasable ones to permanent homes, some say "it's just a pigeon" and instantly euthanize. Hope you will follow up to find out how the bird does as maybe he will be eventually released, if not, maybe you could advocate for placing him in a permanent home. Am just frustrated not with you but at many who have the attitude that since they are "just" pigeons, their lives don't matter and that they are expendable. Are there any places near you like Palomacy in CA or the bird sanctuary that Koomori writes about in New York? You might want to google places in the chance that this or another bird will enter your life so there are lots of options. Palomacy even has birds missing an entire wing. Koomoris sanctuary has birds that are blind.


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## Astounding (Aug 27, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Astounding, am glad you rescued and helped the bird. You did the right thing. Am just unhappy because many rehabbers are unwilling to give disabled birds a chance at life. Some will treat and release, some will adopt out the nonreleasable ones to permanent homes, some say "it's just a pigeon" and instantly euthanize. Hope you will follow up to find out how the bird does as maybe he will be eventually released, if not, maybe you could advocate for placing him in a permanent home. Am just frustrated not with you but at many who have the attitude that since they are "just" pigeons, their lives don't matter and that they are expendable. Are there any places near you like Palomacy in CA or the bird sanctuary that Koomori writes about in New York? You might want to google places in the chance that this or another bird will enter your life so there are lots of options. Palomacy even has birds missing an entire wing. Koomoris sanctuary has birds that are blind.


I advocated and even argued for the bird to be adopted if unable to be released. This was the only rehabber in the state.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> A domestic life doesn't have to be sitting watching paint peel. Disabled creatures can be given an enriched environment and housed together and be happy and like spiritwings said, can enjoy a longer life than in the wild. I have 18 year old tree frogs, who would normally live a year or two in the wild. They have a little community, all the creature comforts, and seem quite happy. One, Gimpy, is disabled...lost the ability to walk but gradually regained it, vet isn't sure why. If you just euthanize any basically happy, viable living thing for convenience, you are depriving them of the opportunity to experience joy and most living things seem to want very much to keep on living. When you reach your limit in caring for any living thing that depends on you, I think the right thing to do is rehome it, not euthanize it. Every creature deserves the chance to feel like it is "dancing in the rain." Providing happiness to living things is why we are all here in adoration of pigeons, which sadly some humans haven't learned to see yet as very special.



Why are you preaching to the choir? My comment was that Astounding did as much as he could, and should be thanked for that. Not criticized as he/she has mentioned. Not everyone can do more than what he did.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Cute baby,, wing injury looked minor, was in box in good position, probably minor injury that could have healed alone. Poster was looking for pet bird anyway, may be not this color but it is young and would have been very tame, should have kept it or told the rehabber he would be willing to give it a home and SHE is not an authority to decide for poster whether ferals make good pets or not, it is none of her business if he wants to keep it. Pity, poster missed a good opportunity for a tame young bird.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

CBL, agree.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> It was about one person trying to dictate to another person how they should feel, and how much they should give of themselves.


Giving a bird to someone who will euthanize him / her is not a solution. Astounding (or anybody else in his / her situation) should first have tried to find someone wanting to take that pigeon and offer him / her a good pet life. 
Another solution would be to contact some *farm sanctuaries*, which nowadays are spreading across US and other developed countries. They are mantained by vegan people and they are offering rescued farm animals (cows, pigs, chicken etc) a great life through the financial and physical (work) effort of those wonderful people. I'm following several vegan facebook pages, including this one but there are many others, just google for one in your area or contact this one for info:
https://www.facebook.com/farmsanctuary?fref=nf

If neither giving the bird to a farm sanctuary is possible (though I don't see how wouldn't be possible), return the bird to the wild, where, if not able to survive, at least will die free, in dignity.

Also, what you say that euthanazing a bird is not wrong because they dont realize can also, theoretically, be applied to human children. I mean, is morally wrong.

Humans, though claiming to be superior beings, enslaved and enslave billion of animals for food and after a miserable life in breeding farms, they kill them. This "custom" is considered "normal" only because most people don't dare to question the establishments or because they are too attached to their culinary delights and in the "virtue" of this false normality, they come also to consider normal the euthanasia of pet animals or rescued animals. Is not normal or good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> Giving a bird to someone who will euthanize him / her is not a solution. Astounding (or anybody else in his / her situation) should first have tried to find someone wanting to take that pigeon and offer him / her a good pet life.
> 
> Another solution would be to contact some *farm sanctuaries*, which nowadays are spreading across US and other developed countries. They are mantained by vegan people and they are offering rescued farm animals (cows, pigs, chicken etc) a great life through the financial and physical (work) effort of those wonderful people. I'm following several vegan facebook pages, including this one but there are many others, just google for one in your area or contact this one for info:
> https://www.facebook.com/farmsanctuary?fref=nf
> ...


He did what he could. You don't have the right to say he has to do more than he can. You guys can get off the euthanizing thing. Sometimes euthanizing is the kindest thing, and you change my words and the meaning of my words to preach. If you really read what I wrote you could save yourself the time. If you want to compare a pigeon to human children than you are really way off base. That is ridiculous. And if you can not possibly see that sometimes euthanizing is the kindest thing, than you are blind and just seeing what you want to see. They call that tunnel vision. So you can all get off your soap boxes, and go on to another cause. 
If you really believe that bringing the bird back to where he was and letting him suffer a bad death of starvation, or dehydration, or a cat attack, is better, and dying in dignity, then one has to wonder how you view things. That statement alone would make me not listen to anything you have to say. So save your breath.

He picked up an injured bird. Caring for the bird himself was not possible for him. He brought it to a rehabber for help. All he could do. HE DID WHAT HE COULD. DO YOU NOT GET THAT? We are all different, and up to different limits. Someone was kind enough to try to help a pigeon, the best way he could. You people can't see that, and you keep saying that he should do what you would do. What gives you the right to do that? 
Good Lord Andrei, you are the last one who should be preaching about what someone should be doing. A good many of your birds would have been better off left to fend for themselves. They should have been left to die in dignity.

Astounding did a good thing, in trying to help one of Gods creatures. He brought it to someone for help. You don't know that it will be euthanized. It may get better. You are so into your own beliefs, and what you think he should do, that you are all blind and can't even see that another person tried to do something good for an injured pigeon. You are all on your soap boxes about euthanasia. I didn't say this bird should be euthanized. I have said that sometimes it is the kindest thing for the animal. Even for people. If you honestly cannot see that, then no point talking to blind people. Comparing pigeons to people is idiotic. And going off on your long diatribes is tiresome.
Thank Astounding for doing what he/she could, and move on.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay3, we are all here for our love of pigeons. Don't act shocked when we prefer to find ways to keep them alive rather than letting them be euthanized. Euthanasia of a living thing is abhorrent to most of us. It is a last resort when relieving suffering is otherwise not possible. Unfortunately for pigeons, many people see them as expendable rats with wings. I no longer take wild animals of any kind to our local wildlife rehab place because they euthanize out of convenience and because they pick and choose which species should survive and which are not deserving, with medical problems not entering into the equation. They won't even consider helping pigeons, just Hawks, hummingbirds, etc. but they don't advertise that. Later, they just admit, oh, we don't do pigeons, squirrels, starlings...it is a long list. And they just quietly euthanize most animals that arrive there. I'm sorry but it is important to stand against attitudes like that. Most people who want to help pigeons do so out of kindness but don't realize how they are maligned and killed in great numbers, for sport such as live targets to shoot, given to dogs as toys, or trapped while they are breeding on top of buildings, because they are seen as just a nuisance. If we don't call attention to the worth of pigeons and reserve euthanasia for creatures in total hopeless pain, that says a lot about our species. If that is a soap box, I don't mind standing on it. I would prefer humans start doing a lot more self reflection before more damage is done. I don't fault poster for doing the best they could. I just want people to open their eyes and hearts which costs nothing.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay, you missed the most important part of my message, the reason for posting it. 

It was not written only for Astounding, it was an idea that may help several others. There are people (like the ones on this forum) who are open to take into their care a pigeon from someone who cannot do this so instead of thinking in first stance at a rehabbing center, you should look for someone in your area who may want to take the bird as pet.

Second, there is an alternative to rehabbing centers (we don't have here something like that and am not sure I understand fully how are those in US), and that is the *farm sanctuaries*. I don't know if farm sanctuaries are allowed to take pigeons into custody, I suppose is no problem and at such a center you can be sure they won't euthanize the bird (they are not environmentalists but animal rights activists), instead, will take care of the bird with good food, medical care etc until die a natural death.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Someone needs to put this whole thread out of its misery.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

AndreiS said:


> Jay, you missed the most important part of my message, the reason for posting it.
> 
> It was not written only for Astounding, it was an idea that may help several others. There are people (like the ones on this forum) who are open to take into their care a pigeon from someone who cannot do this so instead of thinking in first stance at a rehabbing center, *you should look for someone in your area who may want to take the bird as pet*.
> 
> Second, there is an alternative to rehabbing centers (we don't have here something like that and am not sure I understand fully how are those in US), and that is the *farm sanctuaries*. I don't know if farm sanctuaries are allowed to take pigeons into custody, I suppose is no problem and at such a center you can be sure they won't euthanize the bird (they are not environmentalists but animal rights activists), instead, will take care of the bird with good food, medical care etc until die a natural death.



Don't tell people what they 'should' do!

As for farm sanctuaries and rehabbers, frankly, you seem to be writing about something you have little personal knowledge of. Do you *know* of such a place where this unfortunate bird could have been taken? I doubt it.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> Someone needs to put this whole thread out of its misery.


Indeed it is so.


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