# What color is this cock bird?



## Bella (May 2, 2009)

I really wasn't concerned at first about figuring out the color of this bird. This is my best performing pair, but their latest baby look like it is going to be a double of the sire, so I guess it's time to find out.
The cock in question is on the right, and that is his hen next to him.










here is their newest baby:


















It's hard to see in the photo, but the pin feathers on it's head are opening up to the same reddish/purple color as the cock bird, and tips of the body and wing feathers are laced in this color, bleeding out into the white flights, just like it's sire.

Last year I had him paired with a black hen and he threw out some striking (and identical) lavender birds:










So does that make this ash red?? He just doesn't look like any ash red I've ever seen...he's so hard to place..


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

He could be a coarse spread ash-red, or an andalusian perhaps. The baby almost looks like a brown bar.


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## Keith C. (Jan 25, 2005)

I think they are indigo, with some factor, such as opal that is spreading the pattern on the cock.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Did you breed this cock and the black hen in a open loft? The cock is a ash red sprread. some of the Spread ash-reds show some reddish in the wing shield which is clearly seen in the photo*GEORGE


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

If those lavenders are andalusian blues he could be a pseudo ashred (double dose indigo)


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## dimerro (Nov 23, 2008)

George is right. His offsprings aren't andalusian and the cock is ash red spread.


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

The cock is spread ash-red grizzle; Spread ash-red expression can vary immensely depending on the modifiers and pattern present.
The cock in question is chequered and probably heterozygous bar under the spread, he may be dirty and/or sooty.
His two sons are a good example of ash-red and spread, they both have black flecking a typical characteristic of ash-red (spread) heterozygous for blue/black. They are two good-looking birds.


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## Bella (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys! 

I figured it was probably some sort of ash red variation, but I'm afraid I have yet to study up on genetics and colors.
I'm gonna wait on that new baby a bit and see what happens. I took the photos of it indoors and the color really didn't come through well...Mary you are right, the photos make him look brown...maybe if we get some sun this weekend I can get a better photo of the little guy.





george simon said:


> *Did you breed this cock and the black hen in a open loft? The cock is a ash red sprread. some of the Spread ash-reds show some reddish in the wing shield which is clearly seen in the photo*GEORGE


Those two were separated into their own cage at the time I had those babies.



indigobob said:


> The cock is spread ash-red grizzle; Spread ash-red expression can vary immensely depending on the modifiers and pattern present.
> The cock in question is chequered and probably heterozygous bar under the spread, he may be dirty and/or sooty.
> His two sons are a good example of ash-red and spread, they both have black flecking a typical characteristic of ash-red (spread) heterozygous for blue/black. They are two good-looking birds.


So the two young cocks are not lavender? I'm not much of a follower on colors (Can you tell!?) They are pretty though! They do have the black flecking you speak of.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Shouldn't an ashred have darker wingpattern? The old cock looks barless to me.

Oh, and is there a color named lavender in pigeons. If yes, what genes are in it.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Henk69 said:


> Shouldn't an ashred have darker wingpattern? The old cock looks barless to me.
> 
> Oh, and is there a color named lavender in pigeons. If yes, what genes are in it.


*Hi HENK69,The key word here is spread . This spread will turn an Ash Red bird into a ashy gray color,but it did not do a good job of hiding the red color,therefor we get a hint of red as we can see in the bird in the first post. Spread hides the pattern and this will make the look like barless but the bird is still bared or check under the spread. Now for Lavender if you mate a Ash Red spread bird to a black spread bird you can get a Lavened or a color called Mahogandy BUT only only about 5% will be lavender and 5% will be mahogany the rest will be 90% brownish reds which is not a very appealing color . The two young that look like Lavenders are infact Lavenders *GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Henk69 said:


> If those lavenders are andalusian blues he could be a pseudo ashred (double dose indigo)


*Hi HENK69, I am working with Indigo and have bred 3 ash red mimics (pseudo) that I will be mating to black spread ,it is my understanding that will make for a darker ANDALUSION type.You must understand that Psedo (ash red mimices) are not true red birds and that the Indigo factor is hiding the true color which is infact blue and therefor can not make a LAVENDER colored bird *


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## Bella (May 2, 2009)

george simon said:


> *Hi HENK69,The key word here is spread . This spread will turn an Ash Red bird into a ashy gray color,but it did not do a good job of hiding the red color,therefor we get a hint of red as we can see in the bird in the first post. Spread hides the pattern and this will make the look like barless but the bird is still bared or check under the spread. Now for Lavender if you mate a Ash Red spread bird to a black spread bird you can get a Lavened or a color called Mahogandy BUT only only about 5% will be lavender and 5% will be mahogany the rest will be 90% brownish reds which is not a very appealing color . The two young that look like Lavenders are infact Lavenders *GEORGE


Ah.. Thank you George for clarifying


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

*All I know is they are very pretty birds......*


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

Henk69 said:


> Shouldn't an ashred have darker wingpattern? The old cock looks barless to me.
> 
> Oh, and is there a color named lavender in pigeons. If yes, what genes are in it.


Ash-red spread phenotypes vary depending on the pattern masked by the spread gene. The muddy-coloured ash-red spread is due to the underlying pattern being chequer, variations due to the type of chequer and modifiers such as dirty and/or sooty. Bella's "lavenders" are most likely to be ash-red bar and spread, the spread of their mother masking bar. In the UK the Roller fliers also call spread ash-reds "silvers", as well as lavenders - just to add to the confusion!

The milky gene (a recessive autosome) in combination with spread blue/black produces a "Lavender" phenotype, e.g. Mookees and Lahores. A number of genetic combinations are capable of producing a "lavender" phenotype, particularly those involving reduced, dominant opal, platinum, etc.


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## AllAroundAnimal (Aug 4, 2010)

http://www.national-federation.co.uk/Pigeon_Calculator_Advanced.htm

Maybe This Could Help ??????? Beautiful Birds - The Pair The Offspring and The Lavenders !! The Very Young Baby Bird Looks Like a Dun To Me ??????? I Know this post is over a year old - Maybe some updated Pictures ?? Thank You !! Mike


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