# Neighbor complaining about nest on fire escape - wants them gone now



## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

In my 24-unit building, one side has been pigeon-proofed with netting over the lightwell. Unfortunately the other side is over the driveway and our lightwells are mirror images of the next door building's lightwells so there is no way to pigeon-proof it. The next door building would have to agree, and the pigeons could still fly down the driveway which is what they do anyway.

I noticed a lot of poop under one fire escape on the driveway then saw a pigeon roosting in a plant one neighbor has outside his kitchen window. A week ago I started hearing baby squeaks.

Unfortunately the other apartment on that fire escape is a studio whose living space is right on the fire escape.

I emailed the woman in the studio because we're friends, and told her the babies would fledge in a few weeks and then we could remove the plant. I was really looking for her help in dealing with the man, because I was afraid he would find out about the babies and get rid of them.

Turns out the woman I emailed wants them gone ASAP. She works 12 hour shifts as a nurse and says the pigeons have taken over the fire escape, they squeak all the time, others land there, and one even flew into her window, and she has a responsibility to her patients to be alert at work and the noise disturbs her sleep.

She now has to keep her windows closed, which she doesn't like doing.

I told her the baby (or babies) would fledge in a few weeks and that the parents would abandon the babies if the nest were moved even a few feet.

I hate to take the baby to a wildlife sanctuary when it has perfectly good parents raising it. But she wants them gone now.

I'm going over to see out her window and assess the situation later this evening.

Any suggestions?


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

PS I told her that I would help pigeon-proof her fire escape after the babies fledge.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Is there any real possibility of her doing something to hurt them in the next 2-3 weeks? She sounds very busy, like she wouldn't have time to get up there and kill the baby pigeons or whatever she wants to do with them. Plus it wouldn't look very caring for a nurse to murder baby pigeons. 

What about saying to her that you are organizing their removal in a week, and when a week passes, say that you just need another week because your plans fell through, you're really sorry etc? Could that work with her, or is she extremely intolerant and murderous natured?

PS. So disturbing to think of a nurse wanting to kill a baby bird


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

She doesn't want to kill them, she just wants them gone. Except I can't think of a good way to remove them before they fledge, without finding someone to nurse them, and that seems so ridiculous. I told her that it's illegal to harm pigeons. I also told her I would check with a wildlife refuge that rehabs lost birds. She's probably hoping I can remove them now and take them to the sanctuary. But that's so ridiculous given that they have loving parents who are doing a great job.

I think her problem is with pigeons continuing to be out there in the future, so I need to partner with her to prevent that. And buy some time to let the baby (or babies) grow to maturity.

She's a nice person, she hasn't said anything about killing them and until I brought it up to her she was living with it. But she's in a studio and there's only one window in her room and she can't open it because of them. And of course a thin sheet of glass doesn't do much to prevent sound. She said they coo and squeak all the time.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Sorry, What I am really wondering about is the actual risk to the birds if you do whats best for them - ie do you think she is really going to get rid of them herself in the next 2-3 weeks, and would she do it? 

In these situations, you don't have to automatically harm the birds on your neighbour's behalf. I have a neighbour who thinks all birds are pests and should be shot or posioned. Those are his feelings, not mine, and I don't have to kill all the birds just because he wants that- that would make me his proxy and henchman. When you care about pigeons, you act on whats right for the birds. You don't roll over for just anyone who doesn't like them, or worse, do their bidding, you may as well be them if you do. I realise this is getting philosophical and you may disagree, but we bird lovers are entitled to our compassion and we certainly aren't obligated to carry out the dirty deeds of people who hate them.

If she's a nice person, then you could try to buy your pigeon babies some time, you are sweet and I am sure there's a chance she'd accommodate you.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Don't worry Bella, there's no way I would get rid of the birds for her, and I doubt she'd go out on the icky fire escape and deal with a plant pot covered in pigeon poop and remove the babies. The ick factor alone deters most people.

I think what I can do is promise to become her partner in the LONG TERM SOLUTION which is what she should be most interested in. And if I don't offer any easy outs for the short term (such as, I'll take the babies to a rehabber) then I think she will agree to let them grow up and fledge. Then we need to get rid of the other guy's potted plant which is what attracted the pigeons in the first place - they are desperate for places to nest since their other options are slowly being taken away from them.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That's great, I'd hate to see your empathetic nature manipulated into becoming the free local pest control service for all the intolerant neighbors...but I can see that you're assertive when it counts The compromise you're proposing is more than fair. Lol, you're right its very unlikely she'd crawl amongst all the ick to get the baby pigeons. She probably thinks they have teeth and bite, lol.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Unfortunately she called me about an hour ago and we talked (I wasn't home). She is absolutely adamant that she will not wait for the baby to grow up. She says she is a light sleeper with a brutal schedule, and they're just pigeons, and while she doesn't intend to kill them, she intends to find a solution.

I have no idea what that means. Call management and have THEM kill them?

She wants them relocated immediately.

Now, I do have a spot in my carport space which is where I've been putting out seed for the neighborhood pigeons, so I know the parents go there to eat. But if I put up a pigeon box at the back of my space and relocated the baby there, I do not believe from what I have read on this forum that the parents would continue to feed the baby.

From what she is telling me the baby is only about 4 days old. I know I first heard squeaking on Friday and she says it was late last week that she first started hearing it.

I can pretend I found it and take it to a local wildlife rehab place. Coincidentally I took an injured starling there last week and had a long conversation on the phone with their wildlife manager who was super-nice and told me they do go all out and give better than veterinarian care to any birds that are brought in.

I also know a private rehabber in the area who took a bird for me once when it was covered in pigeon goop and couldn't fly - the rehabber worked on it for weeks then I took it back and released it where I found it.

I'm going to go over tonight and take a photo. 

If I could trap the parents AND get the baby then I would put them in a cage or my bathroom or something and just feed them and give them water til the baby was older. But I don't think I can trap the parents.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I don't think trapping the parents will work anyway nor will moving the nest. Pigeon parents abandon nests that are moved.It's a real shame and I'm very sorry.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Thanks Charis,

So if she insists that the baby be removed, my only option is to take it to a rehabber? Will a 5 day old baby survive if raised by hand?


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

PS I feel really sorry for the parents who are taking care of their baby and right now the best-case-scenario is, they show up with food and the baby is - GONE? Will they grieve?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They will grieve for a couple of days and then they will be on to start a new nest.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I am so sorry she has turned out to be a real threat to the pigeons, and not much of a friend either. People!

Personally, I have had good experiences with relocating adults with nestlings- I had to do it the last three times I had house inspections. I put the babies in a different nest box in a totally different enclosure , and the parents still fed the babies for the day - they ranged from maybe 12 days old to 15 days old, so bigger than a hatchling. I also relocated my pair of King pigeons when they had eggs, and they continued to sit on the eggs afterwards. And then just recently I had to take a newly hatched baby off its parents because they had pox, and I gave it to another healthy pair. They raised it successfully as it own.

If you did try temporarily trapping the whole family of pigeons and seeing if they will continue to raise the babies, you can always release the parents if it doesn't work.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Bella, thanks. How would I trap the parents?

Also, how often do babies this young feed? Every hour? Every few hours? I wouldn't want to leave the baby alone for too long.


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

To trap the parents couldn't you go and take them at night? This whole situation is horrible


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

SerendipityCA said:


> Bella, thanks. How would I trap the parents?
> 
> Also, how often do babies this young feed? Every hour? Every few hours? I wouldn't want to leave the baby alone for too long.


I haven't raised babies in recent years, Charis would be the expert to ask on this. I guess the general idea would be to give the parents a chance to feed the young, and have a back up plan to feed them yourself and get them to a rehabber quickly if they don't feed them within 3-4 hours. 

Because of my experiences, I feel that there is a good chance they would feed them though. I just had a squeaker in my house with a broken foot, together with an adult male with his leg amputated- and even though they weren't related, he fed the baby until it was older. Some pigeons are just good parents I guess...I've only known good ones, or maybe they are better when caged with the babies when the nest is moved, as opposed to being given the option to fly off and abandon the nest?

So how old do your think the babies are? Your neighbor said the sound of the baby's squeaking was so loud that it keeps her awake at night - that makes me think they are older than 4 days hatchlings, or was she exaggerating? November is right, night time is the best time to catch them all, but you will need a good plan.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

November, it would be tricky. I'd have to get her permission to get out on the fire escape, and then hope they didn't fly away as soon as I climbed out there. Yes, they're less active at night but they're not comatose!


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## Luftty (May 19, 2012)

I would check local laws in regards to disturbing a nest that has baby birds on it. If there is a law protecting live nests you might have a good argument to present to the lady that obviously thinks her anoyance is more important than the well being of a baby bird. 

I know some states have laws protecting nests that have eggs or babies on them, here in colorado wild birds nests can only be removed if eggs are not present but sadly they dont protect pigeon nests those can be destroyed and the baby birds removed to be killed. 

With the possible exception of Boulder that declared it self a bird sanctuary and all nests must be removed after birds left the nest or before they lay.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thats a great idea. Serendipity, you mentioned pigeons are protected where you live?


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Luffty and Bella, Thank you. I am going from memory that it is illegal to kill pigeons. I'll try to find out more about the law. I am in San Francisco, California.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Found this which says: "In San Francisco it is not legal to poison, trap or shoot pigeons."

http://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/EHSdocs/ehsPublsdocs/EHSDicrectorRules/vectorControl.pdf


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm a little confused by this situration here.
Who is the man you speak about and what is his invlovment?
If this is such a big deal to your neighbor why doesn't she take care of it herself?
Another thing. What is the problem about the noise? Pigeons sleep at night as well...


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Serendipity, That's a good law! I suppose you should email this information to the neighbour - if you are lucky that will put an end to the matter. She can't expect you or managment to break the law for her.

And -yeah- whats with saying that sleeping birds make a lot of noise?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

AZCorbin said:


> I'm a little confused by this situration here.
> Who is the man you speak about and what is his invlovment?
> If this is such a big deal to your neighbor why doesn't she take care of it herself?
> Another thing. What is the problem about the noise? Pigeons sleep at night as well...


Not all humans sleep at night though, some work shifts, especially nurses.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

The man I mentioned is her neighbor. She is in a studio (living space directly on the fire escape) and he is in a one-bedroom apartment (his kitchen and bathroom are on the fire escape, so he is probably not bothered by the pigeons as much.

A couple of months ago he put a plant outside his kitchen window and that is where the pigeons decided to nest. Gradually over the past year both my building and its twin next door have pigeon proofed almost all of the areas where they used to nest, so they are looking for anywhere to nest, and when he put the plant out, a pair picked that for their nest and apparently had a baby last week.

She claims that they make noise at night as well as during the day. And she's a light sleeper.

I don't think she works night shifts. She is almost never home, she's at school full time and working full time. Nursing school, I think.

She said she got a new bed last week so she could get a good night's sleep.

She was also really upset when one of the pigeons got into her apartment and panicked as she was trying to get it out - feathers all over her kitchen. Now she's angry that she has to keep her windows closed tightly at all times when she used to keep her kitchen window open all the time. I mentioned screens, and she said she got screens so I don't know why her window is supposedly tightly shut but - whatever.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

PS AZCorbin, I'm glad she's letting me get involved. I initially contacted her because I saw pigeon poop on the driveway cement and - well it's not difficult to trace the source, just look up! I saw a plant on the fire escape just above the poop, and saw pigeons hanging out there. Then last Friday when I heard a baby squeaking I got worried and emailed her. I was actually worried about the guy next door to her who put the plant out, but when she replied, I realized SHE was the problem.

I can guarantee that if you are a pigeon lover you would rather have me handling it than her "taking care of it herself!"

Though I don't know what she would have done if I hadn't contacted her. Maybe she would have just lived with it. Maybe she would have contacted management and they would have killed the baby. At least this way I can intervene and protect the baby. But I did put myself squarely in the picture and now she expects me to handle it - or she will.


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks for the response.
I thought I remembered you saying that she did not want any harm to come upon them.
If this lady was truly angry she would have already done something herself..
But as you feel you need to get invloved. Grab the babies and buy some kaytee mix and hand feed them.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I know this is a stressful situation for you, but I think that every day that you can safely put off the removal of the babies from their parents increases their chance of survival when they are eventually transferred to your care, which will have to happen sooner or later. You can tell her you have found someone who'll come to remove them in two days, then that person can cancel a couple of times....use any delaying tactic you can to buy them even a few more days, because they are getting stronger by the day on their parents' pigeon milk. Even if she calls the management, they probably won't show up immediately. The important thing would be to be in very close contact with her, so that you know exactly what she intends to do and when, and then you can jump in and remove the babies. In the meantime, buy her a box of silicon earplugs from any drugstore to wear at night - they work so well, that once she gets used to them she might forget about the pigeons. The noise is probably the reason she's not opening her window despite the screen.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree with Eva about trying to delay the removal. Lately I've been studying a bit more about the way parents pass antibodies against disease to their babies- I had to figure out what to do when a pair of my pigeons had pox and had a hatchling in their nest. (I took it out and had a healthy pair raise the baby) What I learned is that immunity to many illnesses occurs via the transfer of antibodies from the parent's crop milk, to the baby. A baby removed from its parent would therefore be robbed of that advantage. If the parent is healthy, the longer you can keep the baby in a position to receive crop milk, the better.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I think that ,if whole family trapped, the parents will feed their baby,if provided seeds and fresh water daily.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

NYC and Bella, it's remarkable, I just got home, and as I was driving I was thinking "I wonder if parent pigeons pass along antibodies to their babies like dogs and cats and humans do" and also I was thinking that it would be so much better if the baby could stay with its parents just a little while longer. Then I came home and found your messages!

AZCorbin, I was naive. I did think she didn't want any harm to come to them but now I realize she doesn't care. She probably doesn't want to get HER hands dirty but she wouldn't really mind if somebody else did the deed. I think knowing that I am aware that the baby is there, and that I am opposed to any harm coming to it (direct or passive), may give her pause for thought. But NYC made a very valid point (you don't know my landlord by any chance, do you? <g>) ... management usually takes a while to respond to this sort of thing.

I really don't want to have to hand-raise a pigeon! The person I called has not called me back, it's been years since we were in touch so I don't know what their status is ... then there's WildCare in Marin, I could approach them but I'm not sure they'd take the baby if I told them the truth. 

I would need help with how to trap the whole family! Any ideas?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Unlike everyone here, I don't think there would be much of a chance that the parents would continue caring for the baby with the stress of being caught, and moved and caged....not that there would be harm in trying - you'll just end up releasing them after a few good meals. In order to catch them your neighbor must fully cooperate because she's in the apartment with access to the fire escape, but she wants them gone, so I'm sure trapping ALL of them would appeal to her immensely. From her open window (lights out) you can throw a heavier net on top of them when they are asleep at night and then climb down to get them. With a net on top of them and darkness it will take them a while to get their bearings giving you enough time to get down to them. I live in an apartment with fire escapes and know for a fact that one cannot climb out of the window onto the fire escape and simply grab the birds. As you say earlier - they may be asleep, but they are not comatose.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I thought catching the family was an idea worth considering, but that was until I realized it is illegal and also so difficult.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Unlike everyone here, I don't think there would be much of a chance that the parents would continue caring for the baby with the stress of being caught, and moved and caged....not that there would be harm in trying - you'll just end up releasing them after a few good meals. In order to catch them your neighbor must fully cooperate because she's in the apartment with access to the fire escape, but she wants them gone, so I'm sure trapping ALL of them would appeal to her immensely. From her open window (lights out) you can throw a heavier net on top of them when they are asleep at night and then climb down to get them. With a net on top of them and darkness it will take them a while to get their bearings giving you enough time to get down to them. I live in an apartment with fire escapes and know for a fact that one cannot climb out of the window onto the fire escape and simply grab the birds. As you say earlier - they may be asleep, but they are not comatose.


I don't think they'd feed them either.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I couldn't say for sure. Wild pigeons are different to captive pigeons, and you two are right about the stress factor .


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I think that ,if whole family trapped, the parents will feed their baby,if provided seeds and fresh water daily.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Hi NYC and Bella,

I thought I replied to your posts but apparently I didn't! Just as you were writing that, I was driving around doing errands in my car, wondering whether parent pigeons pass along antibodies to their babies, and thinking that the baby would be more viable if it could be fed by it parents a while longer. Then i came home and found you saying exactly that!

Since she and I spoke on the phone, I think it was Monday, she has put me off. Monday night when I got home I called her but she didn't reply, so I emailed her that I was standing by. Also that I would not be a party to anything that directly - OR indirectly - resulted in harm coming to the baby. I did try to convey to her that I was her key to solving this problem. 

Last night she emailed back to say she had been taking an on-line test, she's super busy studying and working, she'd try to get back to me. I emailed back to ask how she was sleeping and whether the squeaking was still bothering her, and to tell her that I am standing by, ready to help.

I hope that she has decided that she can live with it a few more days (or weeks) or is too busy to give me the time to go in there and do something. I *fear* that she is stalling me and has called management to come and give her a more permanent solution.

I have to say, my opinion of human nature is such that I mistrust everyone when it comes to animals. I've had bad experiences with people over their treatment of pigeons, and also some dogs that I rescued and placed in foster, and some feral cats in a colony I was responsible for, with a neighbor trapping them covertly even after he promised to stop. So I don't trust people as far as I can throw them, they are downright SNEAKY when it comes to being determined to hurt animals, it sometimes seems, and when they meet someone like me who insists on NOT harming animals, they try to do an end run around me.

Anyway, I cannot get out there without the cooperation of one of the six apartments on that lightwell. She's one of them. Or I could go up on the roof and climb down three stories, but that's the only way to 100% know the baby is safe. Or I could get a really tall ladder and put it in the driveway and climb up.

I see the parents up there, but I don't hear the baby squeaking, but I only walk by twice a day, I haven't stood out there listening. When I had babies on my fire escape, they didn't squeak much, just when they were eating. So I might have to stand out there for a few hours, which I'm not going to do!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I wouldn't trust her either in that situation, with the way she's acting. And I would have the same fears of her having already contacted management. Pity you can't call management and complain about the pigeon haters living near you, and ask for some netting to keep them away, lol.

What wrong with people Serenitpity? I was walking by some shops today, and heard a squeak above me. I looked up and saw a hole in the roof where pigeons had nested, and beautiful squeaker flapping around and begging its parent for food. The sight of it made my day - it was such a lovely thing, this gorgeous baby bird ! 

Do you think if in the worst case scenario, where managment sent someone around to do something, is it likely that you'd know about it? It would be great if everyone there knew it was illegal, and that you're of the mind to report anyone causing harm to the pigeons. But I suppose you don't want any trouble from managment either.

Maybe the best plan is the big ladder idea, I don't know! I just think you're wonderful & special for caring about them. People like you are a credit to humanity.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Bella, thank you for saying such nice things. I have been lucky in the past that I somehow found out about pigeon abatement in time to help trapped pigeons, etc. What frustrates me is that even when I am proactive and contact management they do not cooperate. On my side of the building there are two lightwells that face a flat windowless wall of the next door building. They decided to put netting over the lightwell at the roof level (completely illegal per the fire code). I knew this was going to happen because of a neighbor on the top floor who had initiated it because he hates any kind of noise (always complaining about the neighboring apartments making noise)...and he is obsessed with pigeon sounds. To this day he emails me every couple of weeks to ask if I heard pigeons fluttering that day - he's afraid they'll figure out how to get back in. I tell him it's probably coming from the roof and as far as I know you cannot keep pigeons off the damned roof too!

anyhoo, when I knew they were going to net over the roof, I was worried because of the ones outside my window. I thought they might get trapped and i'd have a heck of a time getting them out through a small gate on the ground floor. I asked management to let me know when they were going to put the netting up so I could go out and shoo the pigeon out through the roof before they netted it over.

Then they didn't contact me, they put the netting up, the pigeons were trapped, and I had a heck of a time getting them out.

Pigeon abatement companies know the law but they simply do not care - they take the path of least resistance.

And mind you, the way the did the netting is dangerous for the tenants. This is over the fire escape, and if the fire department has to take equipment up to the roof and run it down, or climb down, they will have to rip the netting. If we need to escape up, we will have to climb to the third floor, then climb a vertical ladder on the side of the building, hang on to the ladder with one hand while we unhook about 20 tiny metal hooks over our heads in order to loosen the trap door of netting. How would you like to do THAT at night in an emergency?

I complained anonymously to the fire department once and they eventually came out and declared it unsafe, and it was taken down. Then the pigeons came back and everybody complained. Management complained bitterly about whoever it was who had called. They never suspected me. And they said that the building next door has the exact same netting and the fire department could see it when they were inspecting our roof, but they didn't tell THEM to take it down.

I mean, what good are the fire inspectors if they don't make sure that people have a quick way to exit in an emergency?

But I'm not going to say anything else because if the pigeons came back there would be hell to pay.

Anyway, I'm blathering. To answer your question, I work from home but this is on the other side of the building from me so it's possible they could come over and I wouldn't know. They have a key to her apartment and if she gave them permission they would just let themselves in, go out on the fire escape, and remove the plant. I don't know what they would do with the baby. I can't imagine they would just kill it. But I guess if management hired a pigeon abatement company and they thought they could get away with it, they would do just that. Even though they know the law better than anybody.

I actually look at the pigeon poop under the fire escape every day and try to discern whether there is more than the day before! The pair knows me so they come to the edge of the fire escape in the morning when I walk by. The baby, I have never seen but babies don't move when they're that little. He's basically in the pot and has not yet hopped down onto the metal slats of the fire escape. I would be happy to hear him squeak, so I'd know he's still there. I'll go out more often and see if I can't hear him. And I might borrow my friend's tall ladder and see if I can't get high enough to see the baby.

By the way I totally agree with you. When I walk down the street and see pigeons going about their daily routine, and I watch them fly so beautifully, and wish I could fly like that ... and they're so invisible to other people, when they fascinate me, I think they are blind!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for explaining the (stupid) situation- so basically the law is no protection for the pigeons, and management just do whatever they want without any desire to cooperate with you. Its crazy how they would even block your fire exit path in the fire escape in order to put nets up. Its as though you're left with no other option but to protect the pigeons in secret, because the people you've tried so hard to cooperate with and communicate with are so hostile. 

Actually your post reminds of something that eats at me every year- native birds are protected by law where I live, but every spring the council sends tree loppers around the city to cut down trees and trim them. When they come across bird nests with babies in them, which happens a lot because its Spring, they just throw the nests, eggs and babies into the wood chipper. I photograph bird nests especially the ones of the birds that I know and feed. So its eats me up inside to see a nest full of babies that I've been visiting just tossed in a wood chipper I complain every year, nothing gets done. There's no need for tree trimming in the Spring, they could easily do in the winter when the birds aren't nesting. So there's a fire of anger burning in me all the time- it just makes me more determined to do what I can to make their lives comfortable in any way possible. There's so much stacked against their welfare in cities- and I guess in the country too, with all the people who shoot birds for fun.

PS. Do have any good friends there who might help you rescue the pigeons if necessary?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

What a horrible situation and so typical at that. I live in a building with fire escapes too and they are prime nesting area for my feral flock of pigeons. Every year management sends someone to clear and clean the area. While in the mean time every once in a while, some of the tenants take it upon themselves to would throw away the nests and eggs. Several months ago I came home just at the moment when a maintenance guy the management had hired was clearing away the fire escapes. It was early in the year - January so there was only one nest with a baby in it, the rest had still only eggs. I came home to see the man hitting the baby with his broom trying to get it out of the nest and off the fire escape, and since it couldn't still fly it wasn't budging. I screamed at him and the bastard swore at me, instead of experiencing even a smidgen of shame at his cruelty, and instead of stopping, he pushed the baby down onto the ground where I picked it up. Luckily it wasn't hurt since this was the lowest fire escape. It was the baby of my one of my pigeon pairs that I've known the longest, and the parents were standing nearby watching everything. I returned it to them 24 hours later when he had gone for good and they finished raising it. While I had it in my care I couldn't help but marvel what an amazingly plump and healthy thing it was - so well taken care of. Anyway, to answer your question of whether the management or someone they send could hurt or kill the baby - I think definitely yes, without a second thought. This monster of a man acted as if I was the one doing the crazy thing and you should have seen the look of disgust on his face when I took the baby. 
I wonder if there's a friendly apartment that looks onto the fire escape with the plant that you could take a look from with a pair of binoculars, to see if the baby is still there - might be easier and less conspicuous than a ladder.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Son of a b**tch. I went out just now and looked up, and there were three adults in the medium-sized plastic pot holding the plant. Didn't hear squeaking. Got my car drove down the driveway, stood on the roof, still couldn't see.

So I went up onto my roof and across to the next door building where I had a clear view of the top of the pot, it was three flights down so hard to see but I didn't think I saw a baby in there.

I finally bit the bullet and climbed down the ladder and down the fire escape so that I could actually see the pot close up.

There is no baby. There is no blood, no feathers, no corpse, NOTHING.

Now I know there was a baby there a week ago, and she was complaining about it, and now it is gone.

No wonder she wasn't in a hurry for me to come over.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

I just called and left a message on her cell phone. I said that I had climbed down, the baby was gone, there was no trace of it - no feathers, no blood, no corpse, and it had to have been removed by a human, and only she and her neighbor next door would have done it. I basically accused her of it (probably not a good idea but whatever). And said that I want to know what happened to it because I'd like closure - and I don't understand why she would have disposed of the baby when I had offered to come and take it.

She probably just didn't want me in her apartment so she put me off and then disposed of it herself.

What do you think the odds are that she will admit it to me?

Mind you, I don't think management did anything, they are slow to respond to request about the pigeons at the best of times.

And the guy - he wouldn't have done anything. I doubt any of the two girls in the studios above her climbed down and did it. So it's down to her.

I mean, how does a baby just DISAPPEAR?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Serendipity, When you said there are three adults in the nest now, could one be the baby? The babies grow very fast, and it would be very unusual for a pair of pigeons to let a strange adult into their nest. What do you think -is that possible?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh, I'm so sorry. 
Could it be that the baby is one of the three adults in the pot, because why would there be three pigeons in there. Babies will squeak when hungry even when they are quite adult looking.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Didn't see your post Bella, so essentially wrote the same thing.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Lol, we think alike


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

I thought of that when I saw three pigeons, but here's the thing. They all three flew up and out of the pot when they saw me, and perched on the neighboring building's fire escape. To the best of my knowledge, the baby was born less than a week ago. I have NEVER heard squeaking until last week, which doesn't necessarily prove anything. BUT, she herself is a light sleeper and very sensitive to such noises and she said she had first heard the squeaking about the same time I did. 

I will have to apologize to her if indeed that is the baby. And I thought the same thing, that it was odd to see three pigeons hanging out together in the pot. Not just on the fire escape, but IN the pot. But don't eggs take 6 weeks to hatch, then the babies take 6-7 weeks to fledge? The baby would have been squeaking for the past six weeks, no?

BTW I was so mad I went into the garbage chute and took a rake and pulled all the garbage out of the metal bins, put on a pair of rubber gloves and ripped everything apart looking for the body. I live in a 24-unit building and I may be the only person who actually cares about recycling and composting. Our garbage is picked up frequently so if she had thrown it away on Tuesday it might already be gone - the bin was nowhere near full. I found a bag of her garbage (there was a statement with her name on it) ... but no baby. But I would not expect to find a pigeon's body in her home garbage, because if she had taken it and killed it she would have disposed of immediately, and not left it in her home garbage unless it was already full and she was ready to dump it.

So, short answer is, except for the fact that both of us seem to agree that the baby was probably born last week ... yes, that could definitely be the baby.

BTW there were two abandoned eggs and some twigs on top of the garbage chute. There's one way in to that recess, I can put netting over the bars at the top where they fly in and out.

A topic for another day, but I guess I need to stop feeding the pigeons in the building. Just last week I ran out of seed and drove to Half Moon Bay to a feed store and bought two 50# bags. 

I did not initially attract pigeons to the building, they were already here for years before I started feeding, but not in these numbers. 

I can't go away for two days because I worry about how they would eat.

I need to start cutting back on the food so that they can learn to forage out in the real world, and not starve.

What would you recommend - start feeding every other day, then reduce the quantity?

I could also feed elsewhere - in the park across the street maybe. Take the dog out at midnight and dump the seed there.

Gotta do something with the 98 pounds of seed I still have!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The eggs hatch in 18-20 days. Babies leave the nest at about 35 days.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Gradually cut back the amount of the feedings and then you can cut back the frequency, while at the same time start leaving food for them elsewhere. While it's tempting to leave the food out at Midnight while no one is there to give you dirty looks while you feed, you'd be better off feeding early in the mornings before people are up if your schedule allows it. Leaving seed out all night attracts rats and soon you'll have people complaining about that. You also don't want the rats and pigeons sharing the same feeding ground because of risk of disease to the pigeons. In addition you can also get ticketed for littering, when someone eventually figures out you are the one leaving the food. Also, during the day the pigeons who recognize you have a chance to see you leaving the food and go to it. It can be though, when your birds are have gotten used to be fed by you for years (I'm assuming). To get them off the building where they are waiting for you, start by dropping a few seeds just down below where you feed them (your window, I assume?), and around. That will get them back to looking on the ground for food and soon enough they'll figure out your new feeding location next to the park. But even though you are no longer feeding them at your building, don't expect them to just disappear from there. They will continue to roost and nest at least for a while, but you'll be seeing less of them hanging out in the day because they will be on the ground looking for food.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hmm...I really hope the third one is the baby then, it sounds like its definitely possible. All I can really add is that baby pigeons make very quiet noises in the first weeks after hatching, possibly too hard to hear for two weeks unless you are lucky , or really straining to hear the sound during feeding time. I find it hard to imagine your neighbour hearing that soft sound through a closed door. Its more likely she heard an older baby at Squeaker age, possibly being weaned...that's when they carry on the most. Fingers crossed any way.

I'm sorry this has all caused you so much angst and anger. Its really awful to have to worry like this


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Bella, your last post gave me great comfort because I think all the facts are starting to come together in a scenario that lets my neighbor off the hook, and means the baby is alive.

She called me when she got home tonight and assured me she hadn't done anything to the baby, and I tend to believe her. While we were talking she said she thought she heard the baby. When I got there, there were two on the fire escape and maybe the third (thinner) one was across on the neighbor's fire escape. The pot was empty.

She swore that the baby was born at the beginning of last week, because that's when she says she started hearing the squeaking. They are outside her window which is a thin glass pane. Not directly outside, but if you stick your head out and look to the right, they are about 7 to 8 feet back against the other neighbor's wall.

So if they are quiet when they're little ... sounds like this was maybe an older baby and in the past few days he has fledged.

It would have been easy for her to lie and say she had heard the baby for weeks, then I would believe it had fledged already, because we both believed (incorrectly it seemed) that newborn babies make a racket.

Does "Squeaker" mean a soon-to-be-weaned soon-to-fledge "teenager?"

Anyway, she will let me know if she hears more squeaking. But in any event, the baby is either gone or has fledged. In a few days I will go over and take the pot away and leave a note for the guy. He will definitely not want his plant, the pot is disgusting, covered in pigeon poop.

Here's something weird. The poop on the ground was a cranberry red and there is cranberry red poop around the pot. Pigeons don't eat plums, do they?? She said it was blood but it doesn't really look bloody to me.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

SerendipityCA said:


> Pigeons don't eat plums, do they??


Well, you'd think not, but a member from California has seen the ferals there eating olives that have fallen on the ground from the olive trees, so who knows.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

SerendipityCA said:


> B
> 
> Does "Squeaker" mean a soon-to-be-weaned soon-to-fledge "teenager?"
> 
> .


I'm not sure exactly when a squab turns into a squeaker actually! I did a quick google search and saw one website state it as being around 3 weeks of age . It would be fully covered in feathers and sometimes out of the nest . I had a female pigeon kick her latest baby out of the nest at 3 weeks because she was jealous of her husband feeding it ...and I've taken in a few squeakers this year who were kicked out early because they had pox. ...so they can leave the nest a bit early.

To my ears, its when the little baby stops making a soft `pee- pee-peee' sound when fed, and its turns into a loud `Sqqueee-SQUEE_ SQUEEE" lol, sorry for silly description


PS. Not sure about the red poop, hopefully just something it ate!


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## GooseGirl (Jun 7, 2012)

Serendipity, reading about your management and your fellow-tenants' horrible antipathy toward pigeons, I can sympathize. 

I live in an apartment building also, and although my management has not yet gone to the extreme lengths yours has in deterring pigeons, they have the "attitude" in place and already post angry notices to us, demanding that we not feed any birds. They also wrote a letter to me claiming that tenants in the floors below me had complained about my throwing feed down to the lawn for the wood pigeons and some ferals that used to eat it. 

I've now had to stop doing that -- and the delightul pair of woodies don't come around anymore. 

I still secretly feed what is now down to as little as three ferals who come to my window-sill. 

But it makes me miserable to wonder what kind of miserable people would wish for all bird life to simply be GONE from around our building? Do they just want a world with no wildlife at all, barren, without the joy of wings flying through the air, or birdsong? We have blackbirds around here and their song is the most beautiful thing to hear. But they were benefitting from my feedings too, and now I don't hear or see them anymore either. 

Sorry for rambling on and digressing from your issues -- just to say, you have my enormous sympathies regarding your heartless neighbors and management, and yours is not the only place with this bad (murderous) attitude. It disheartens me so deeply. Animals brighten my life - wild or domestic - and I don't know why others not only do not feel that way but in fact want them all gone or dead or I don't know what.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Hi everybody, here's an update.

But first, thank you everybody for your input and advice and hand-holding. And GooseGirl, thank you for your lovely post.

People think it's absolutely all right to call pigeons "rats with wings." To me, they are beautiful. They have amazing eyesight and can recognize me from blocks away. They mate for life. They tend their eggs lovingly round the clock for weeks. We humans could learn a thing or two from them.

And best of all, they can SOAR above the rooftops gracefully. When I look at a "rat with wings" hanging out in the gutter, then see it effortlessly take flight and cover a city block in a few seconds, I marvel at it. And marvel at how blind everybody is, that they don't see the beauty in that humble little bird.

Anyhoo ... I am almost 100% certain now that in fact, the third bird was the baby/squeaker/fledgling. It was hanging out on the fire escape for a few days with the parents, who were bigger and fatter, and when I would come out of the building the two big ones would fly to the back area to wait for me, but the baby would stay on the fire escape.

A few days ago I stopped seeing him, so I assume he has left the nest and is on his own (and getting a nice nosh every day since I put out seed every night). I had been waiting to be sure he was fully gone and not relying on his parents to return and feed him. So I would look up at the potted plant each time I walked down the driveway.

For the past few days I have noticed one of the pigeons spending a lot of time in the pot and I suspected they were incubating a new egg. So today, rather than involve the neighbors again, and not waiting to wait several days for the baby inside to grow even more, I put aside my fear of heights, went up onto the roof and climbed down a vertical ladder onto the third floor fire escape, then down the stairs to the first floor level. The nesting pigeon flew away as I arrived, and sure enough there was an egg in the pot. I took it and put it in my pocket, then left. I shone a flashlight through it today and there was nothing inside yet, so it's a very very new egg. Maybe not even viable. Then I wrote a note to both neighbors who share that fire escape (including the one I told you about) - told the guy who put the plant out there that he should remove it and then wash the fire escape down as it is full of pigeon poo.

Of course the parents are back in the pot wondering where their egg is, and I feel bad for them, but I think it's time they stop nesting there. I could put the egg back, I had it in my fridge all afternoon and it's definitely no longer viable if it ever was, but again, I think it's time to discourage them from roosting there.

I also recommended to both tenants that they monitor the fire escape in the future, as in a worst-case scenario they might try to bring twigs and actually nest on the metal slats of the fire escape. Taking away the plant won't necessarily stop them trying to raise babies there!

Hopefully this is it for that pair.

As for my feeding patterns, I am very much a night owl and it would be difficult to feed them in the early morning. I put the seed out in the back carport around 2 am every night. I used to throw it up onto the carport roof which was a perfect location, as it kept them off the ground where the cars are ... but it made a whooshing sound when it landed on the roof and people could hear it. One neighbor (friendly) saw me doing it. So I would be "outing" myself as the source of all the problems they've been having, if I kept putting it on the roof. So I put it under my car in my dedicated stall, and they fly down and mill around very early in the morning having breakfast, and hopefully people don't see them there.

I do want to try to move them elsewhere, and then taper off so that they don't rely on me. I'm going away August 3-5 and worry about them for the two days I'll be gone! I can feed them Friday at noon, and Sunday at 10 pm when I get back, so they'll only miss one day.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Serendipity! Thanks for the update and good work finding the new egg.

Just for future reference, the hen will lay two eggs, so if the nest is removed in between laying the first and second egg, she would feel a bit desperate because the egg needs to come out and she doesn't have anywhere to lay it. So normally you'd wait for the second egg to come out and then take the nest. Anyway, you weren't to know, and she'll be ok in the long run, I'm sure!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Solution for noise: EARPLUGS! A nurse should be able to figure that out!


Also, some lateral thinking: she wants the pigeons gone, perhaps she should move or take a vacation. Voila! No noise from pigeons!


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Oh no! I totally forgot that sometimes they have two eggs a few days apart. Well, I don't know that they actually removed the plant yet (I haven't been out yet today, will check in a few minutes) ... and the last time she only had one egg, no sign of two, and there was only one baby.

The ones who used to nest outside my fire escape always had two but I didn't check very often so I kinda forgot they have them a few days apart.

Poor mommy, first I steal her egg then I leave her no place to drop the other one. Big stress :-(


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you just take the planter away and clean up, the birds should go and find another place to nest. Simple. It really won't bother them all that much. There are always other places to nest.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

The plant is still there and the bird is in it. It's not my plant so I can't remove it, and the only access I have to that fire escape is from the roof two floors above, or through one of the tenants' windows with their permission. So, if the guy doesn't want to remove his poop-crusted plant (or more likely is too lazy to bother), it's on him. But I will keep an eye on it and remove eggs if I have to - and hope I don't break my neck climbing down from the roof!

I'll definitely check for a second egg in a few days if the planter is still there.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Please be careful; I would really hate for you to get hurt- you are a very caring person!

If the guy doesn't take his planter away, have you considered replacing the eggs with dummy eggs ( or you can take away the real eggs, boil them, cool them, and put them back). That way you won't have to worry about another pair of baby pigeons being killed, at least for a month or so. Also, when you take eggs away they just lay more and it can be taxing on the hen to do that over and over. With dummy eggs, they will keep sitting on them for weeks before laying more.

Not that I think its reasonable that you're the only one trying to help keep the neighbour's happy- they seem to do nothing at all to help, but complain.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

The pigeons on my building's fire escapes will nest in a pot or planter or something of that nature, but when those are removed they just make nests directly on the fire escape itself. Just this morning the neighbors put up a large plastic owl on the fire escape and a few hours later the pigeons were back and continued building their nests there. In the evening lots of pigeons were happily sleeping all around the owl. 
I don't believe removing the planter will necessarily be the end of the story. As long as they feel safe, pigeons adapt very readily, particularly as they are finding fewer nesting sites in cities as nets and spikes go up. They need to be actively discouraged. Perhaps your neighbor who so strongly objects to their presence, can wave them away every time she sees them there. All it would take would be or her to open her window and wave a piece a cloth at them whenever she sees them. They'll soon get the message that this is not a hospitable place for them and stop coming.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

nycpigeonlady said:


> The pigeons on my building's fire escapes will nest in a pot or planter or something of that nature, but when those are removed they just make nests directly on the fire escape itself. Just this morning the neighbors put up a large plastic owl on the fire escape and a few hours later the pigeons were back and continued building their nests there. In the evening lots of pigeons were happily sleeping all around the owl.
> I don't believe removing the planter will necessarily be the end of the story. As long as they feel safe, pigeons adapt very readily, particularly as they are finding fewer nesting sites in cities as nets and spikes go up. They need to be actively discouraged. Perhaps your neighbor who so strongly objects to their presence, can wave them away every time she sees them there. All it would take would be or her to open her window and wave a piece a cloth at them whenever she sees them. They'll soon get the message that this is not a hospitable place for them and stop coming.



Good point. Removing the planter may not be enough. Making it less of a friendly place would help. 

I would have liked to see a picture of the birds all sleeping around the owl. Sounds cute.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Update - I have seen the one bird in the nest all the time for the past several days so I KNEW there was another egg in it. The letter that I wrote to the guy had no effect at all. And even the neighbor who had complained (I cc:'d her on the letter) was unaware that the bird was sitting on an egg, though of course once it hatched and then began squeaking she would have wanted it gone. I have been feeling the clock ticking all week because I know if it's a viable egg there's a baby pigeon growing in there, but I've been working on a project round the clock and somewhat sleep-deprived and I don't want to be climbing ladders 4 stories up in that condition!

I did as you recommended and boiled the original egg yesterday. Tonight when I saw my neighbor was home I called her and filled her in (she got the letter and read it, but didn't know the plant was still there and didn't know that the pigeon was incubating another egg). She let me go out on the fire escape and swap out the eggs. I had kept the boiled one at room temperature and tried to warm it up in my hand on the way over, but it was definitely cooler than the one I took.

I candled the second egg and to me it looks viable. Lots of membranes streaking the inside of the egg, and a dark spot that might be a growing baby.

Is the most humane thing to put it in the fridge and let it slowly expire?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Why not just ask the neighbor to make the area less pigeon friendly? The bird would find another place to nest and that would be the end of it. Why keep going through this?


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Jay, that's exactly what I did - I sent a letter to both people whose apartments are directly on that fire escape (one in a studio whose living space overlooks it, the other in a one-bedroom apartment whose kitchen and bathroom overlook it). I asked the one in the one-bedroom to get rid of his plant which is where they are nesting, and he not only didn't respond, the plant is still there over a week later. The other one is super-busy and never home except at night, she's not going to go waving her hands out the window to scare off the birds. Unfortunately the only time she IS going to do something is when it's too late - when the eggs have hatched and there are squeakers out there, then she wants them gone immediately.

The best I could do is buy time by swapping out the viable egg. The parents will quietly nest there and try to incubate it for a while. 

I can't really think of a permanent solution without the cooperation of one or both of the tenants. I don't really have a stake in this - I don't even live on that side of the building and I have no legal access to that fire escape. We are forbidden - on pain of eviction - from going up to the roof except in an emergency.

All I can hope for is that she'll let me keep taking eggs if the guy doesn't remove the plant. Or, I can ask her to ask the management to step in and force the guy to get rid of the plant. Pigeon proofing that particular fire escape would be nearly impossible if they are determined to roost there however, as it's not possible to seal it off...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your neighbors aren't very helpful are they?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What floor do they live on?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Serendipity! I'm sorry I missed your update- thanks heaps for letting us know whats going on.

That's really great work with swapping out the eggs, though I'm so sorry its such a pain to do it. Maybe your neighbours just have stressful lives and like to use the pigeons as scapegoats at times - they really don't seem to have much committment to solving the `huge' problem do they?

I have an aversion to taking eggs too. I know mentally it has to be done but emotionally I just hate doing it every time and have to steel myself for it. That's how I winded up with 4 Oops babies- great beauties they are. I had the room for them & kind wanted to experience seeing babies growing in the loft, so I didn't beat myself up too much, but I can't keep doing that, so I've become stronger. I don't really know what else to say to comfort you other than it gets easier. I think its harder on me than them!


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

First floor, same as me. No, they're not very helpful. They are only motivated to do something when their convenience is affected somehow. The woman in the studio has been pretty cooperative but she's super-busy and again, now that there's no noise she's not even thinking about the pigeons. Of course I am, because I can see the parent sitting in the pot all day and I know what that means. I was lucky that the squeaker was old enough to survive when she complained (he fledged soon after that). But I definitely don't want any more babies born out there because THEN the neighbors would care. I do have someone on backup to raise a baby if it comes to that. I hope!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Maybe they need something `bigger' to worry about instead of the poor baby pigeons? You could take a massive interest in loud music and play it within `allowable' hours so they have to ask you nicely to turn it down? ? There's nothing scarier than a neighbour who likes loud music! (I lived with DJ in my 20's, this is how I know, lol)


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Bella, not funny! After years with quiet upstairs neighbors (and before them, some real loud a$$holes), my neighbors bought a condo and moved out, and right now as I type this, the new person's moving van has pulled up and they're moving in.

I saw somebody parking in the old neighbors' garage last week, so I kind of lurked in the lobby pretending to check my mail, and saw my new neighbor. She's of east Indian descent, I would guess (maybe Pakistani), mid 20's, and she was carrying one of those huge plastic tote bags (you know, the ones that are red, white and blue plaid?) and had TWO musical instruments over her shoulder. I only got a glimpse but they are either violin, violas or guitars. She clumped around overhead for a while then left and didn't come back until today. The building is older and has hardwood floors, and the landlord does not put anything in the lease saying you have to have a certain percentage of the area of the floor covered with rugs. I live in yuppie central (the Marina District) in San Francisco. Literally four short blocks north of the Union Street bar scene, and three long blocks west of the Fillmore Street bar scene. The rent for the unit above me is $2300 a month which means that whoever moves in, has to earn $40,000 a year before taxes just to pay their rent before they buy food! So we get a lot of hotshot young kids fresh out of college with high-paying tech jobs, who come to SF to party and have a good time. 

Even if she's not that loud, my quality of life can be affected by so many things:

1) heel walker. I had a tiny 4'10" Vietnamese woman above me who was a heel walker, she couldn't have weighed more than 105 pounds and it sounded like thunder whenever she walked across the floor!

2) their sex life. I can hear everything. One previous upstairs neighbor had a boyfriend who came over a lot and I swear, every time they finished I'd be lying directly beneath them feeling dirty like I had been in the room with them! Thank god she moved out.

3) do they put their TV/stereo/speakers directly on the floor? If so, my apartment actually vibrates.

So I'm sitting here with my fingers crossed.

As for the folks with the pigeon, I am at the back of the building and they are near the front, I could not play a stereo loud enough to bother them. They're not even on my lightwell so they are insulated from anything I might do. And if I did anything it wouldn't be to play my stereo. that would drive ME nuts!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

So sorry, I was just trying to be light-hearted I've lived in apartments too and I understand how much a loud & insensitive neighbour can affect your whole life in a bad way. As soon as I met my fiance ten years ago we've lived only in houses and its been much better.

I appreciated hearing a bit more about San Francisco, thank you!. Your nurse student neighbour must work as well as study to afford her apartment? I can't imagine a student could afford almost $600 a week in rent.


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## Tashy/Rob (Jan 18, 2012)

Here's an idea....

Tell the neighbour to f***off!


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

Ah, I wish I could tell them to f**k off! I almost did the other day ... 

Anyway, I took the previous egg and boiled it, and since the guy never removed his plant from the fire escape, the student/nurse allowed me to go out and swap the eggs out, a couple of weeks ago, and the poor pigeon is still sitting out there trying to incubate her boiled egg. I figure eventually she will give up. And I'm just about at the point where I'm going to take the plant anyway. 

BTW we have rent control in San Francisco so anybody who moved in several years ago when rents were lower has rent that is below market. Meaning none of us can move because we can't afford to!

Someone left the side gate open the other night, and I was afraid a pigeon had gotten in so I walked along at ground level, didn't see anything. Now I'm seeing a lot of feathers outside on my fire escape but I believe that's just blown up by the draft, because two of them are roosting on a pipe in my carport which is just on the other side of the gate, and tons of feathers have blown in through the bars of the gate, and my apartment is right there.

Still, I'm going to go out in a sec and double-check at least my own fire escape.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

SerendipityCA said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


The pigeon will sit on the egg 18- 21 days and after will give up.


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## 50FootQueenie (Feb 16, 2013)

I really don't understand why people have nothing better to do than hate on pigeons. The pigeons nest on a fire escape. Big deal. Only angry, bitter people make a fuss about having to share space with another living being (and who cares what happens on fire escapes anyway--if yours is anything like mine, it's a run down rickety thing overlooking a bleak cement city landscape--I don't understand why a sign of life out there isn't seen as an improvement. Makes me wish I could "remove" all the people in this city who have nothing better to do with their energy and time than harass a poor bird :-(


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