# deformed beak



## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been rehabbing a 4 week old pigeon I found in a gutter. I brought him to my avian vet for tests. He was tested positive for giardia which at least, is treatable. I am awaiting other tests results.
His major problem is that he has a deformed beak.He is missing part of his maxilla (top beak) making it impossible for him to pick up seed from the floor. I've been hand feeding him and placed a deep cup for him to stick his beak into for at least try to get some seeds.
Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I have been rehabbing a 4 week old pigeon I found in a gutter. I brought him to my avian vet for tests. He was tested positive for giardia which at least, is treatable. I am awaiting other tests results.
> His major problem is that he has a deformed beak.He is missing part of his maxilla (top beak) making it impossible for him to pick up seed from the floor. I've been hand feeding him and placed a deep cup for him to stick his beak into for at least try to get some seeds.
> Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.



Thanks for rescuing this poor fellow and also willing to spend money on his care. Best start with some photos of the beak area so we can see exactly what's going on, also, was treatment started for the giardia and what was prescribed and at what dose? Here's how to post photos: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*beak and now, mucus*

I can't seem to download my photo. I am not computer savy.
one other thing. This morning I noticed two pale yellow gelatanious blobs in his tank. i am assuming it came from his mouth. I contacted my vet to see what is going on. so I am waiting.
Any thoughts? yikes...just when I thought things were going rather smoothly


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*beak*

Ah ha! Here is the photo. I hope you can view it!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

We are going to have to get this little guy on some meds, are you near a big city (meds can be founds at many tropical fish stores), or have a family vet you can take this little guy to?

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*deformed beak and giardia*

I just started him on flagyl as prescribed by my vet for the giardia. I emailed my vet this afternoon. I hope she gets back to me soon in regards to the mucus situation..I'm still not sure what that was all about. Is this normal at all to expectorate?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

How much experience does your vet have with birds and has he ever dealt with Trichomoniasis (canker) in birds before? The reason I ask is I think your little guy may have canker, the infectious organism that causes canker is a flagellated protozoa, and the infectious organism that causes giardia is also caused by flagellated protozoa as well, so I am wondering if there was a mistake in identifying the organisim...how was the identification was made, was it made from a wet mounted slide from a throat swab?

The "yellow gelatinous blobs" are most likely spent leukocytes which are part of the body's immune response debris in fighting infection in pigeons, sort of "pigeon pus". The Flagyl would be a drug of choice for both infections, but I would also like to see your vet prescribe some Trimethoprim/Sulfa for this little guy as well, as from looking at the beak there is a chance he could develop secondary bacterial issue. I asked before, what strength is the Flagyl and what dose are you giving him and how much does he weight?

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*deformed beak and giardia*

This vet is the top avian surgeon on the east coast. She got back to me last night and feels the mucus was most likely urates. (I did'nt see him expell anything I just found a yellowish mass) He is eating well and pooping. She did the swab in his throat and no canker. So far, he has gairdia which he is being treated for and I am awaiting the chlamydia results. I have a appoitment for a recheck next tuesday.
What do you think about his beak? it is odd. no flesh on bone and it is completely healed over.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I think he weighs 136 grams. He on 1.3ml of flagyl once a day for 10 days.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I think he weighs 136 grams. He on 1.3ml of flagyl once a day for 10 days.


I need you to have another look at the Metronidazole (Flagyl) you have, on the bottle it should say something like 50mg/mL, so we need to know the strength of the medicine and also, could you have put the decimal point in the wrong place, as 1.3mL does not sound right, could you have meant .13mL (three ticks past the first major line of a 1cc syringe)? The beak looks, at least to me, like what I have seen from damage from infection, as it would be unusual for a bird this young to damage the beak from injury. Can you go over how much you are feeding him as well, as we need to really so something about his weight, as a weight of 136g, for his age, is not good at all, he should be weighing in at around 275-325 grams (please double check his weight, if this is correct, did the vet note this emaciated state to you and suggest a plan to add weight back?). Is he drinking well on his own, can you also post up a photo of his fresh droppings? 

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*deformed beak and giardia*

Ok I weighed the pigeon myself. He weighs 284 grams.
He is on 100mg/ml/#3ml metronidazole at .13ml once a day for 10 days.
What concerns me is this mucus blob. I saw him flick his head again today and two good sized mucus blobs flew out and stuck to the tank. Here is a photo:
I still assist with feeding him twice a day in a vial of seeds and tiny pellets. He does eat out of a cup but can't eat from the ground. He does have a good appetite. He does drink waterout of a cup on his own.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Glad you re-weighed him, this weight sounds much better . With the Metronidazole, the dosing, IMO, while therapeutic is low, currently the 0.13cc he is getting once a day represents 13mg of Metronidazole. Two frequently used dosing suggestions in pigeons calls for either once a day dosing at 100mg/kg, or twice a day dosing at 50mg/kg. What this means in the first dosing, 100mg/kg q24h, a pigeon weighing 284g should get 28.4mg a day and in the second dosing, 50mg/kg q12h, a 284g pigeon should get 14.2mg every 12 hours. If this little guy were in my care I would double the dosing he is current getting by giving the 0.13mL twice day and with mucus he is producing this may be a prudent thing to do. Metronidazole is a very safe med with a wide margin of safety. 

I still think he should also be on a broad spectrum antibiotic, as well, if you can do anything about this before Tuesday, this would be good (human ones can work as well, if you have some I can help you with how to mix and dose). Please keep an ear open for his breathing, as if you hear wet, congested, rattly sounds, it may mean some of the mucus has blocked his glottis (opening to his windpipe) and you will have to gently open him mouth and check for obstructions and use a Q-Tip to clear things out.

Glad he is eating and drinking OK, I would provide him with a deep dish (1-2") of the mix of seeds and pellets you are feeding him to give him a better chance at self-feeding, and water of course.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*deformed beak and giardia*

My vet just emailed in regards to the photo I posted.
Something is definitely not right. I will (hopefully) have an appointment on tuesday to see what is happening.
BTW
**I take it you have been a long time "pigeon chatter". In your experience, from what you have been reading, do "rescued" baby pigeons have in chance of survival? Have good intentioned folks who reach out to save chucked pigeons have success in their rehabilation?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

The success with rehabilitating a rescued baby pigeon depends on a bunch of factors, if it is/was sick/injured when found, the age, what condition it is in when found, if sick/injured - the speed and correctness that diagnosis and treatment is instituted, the care, support and experience of the caregiver plus a bit of luck , are some of the things that go toward success. A good deal do make it and we try hard for all, as sometimes there are some you don't think have much of a chance that make it, and then there times you think this bird should be OK, and then they don't make it. 

With your little guy not much more to add to my last post to what I think needs to be done right now, a reminder to keep a close watch on his breathing.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I brought him to the vet today. She did a crop flush plus at least 4 different cultures swabs in all areas of mouth, throat, crop and beak. Everything came up negative.
No canker no clamydia no yeast no abnormal bacteria
She did see a bunch of squamous cells in his crop but no inflamation. She suggested adding vitamen A to his diet (spiralina)
What she was mostly concerned with was his beak. The flesh is necrotic.Although the gram negative slide culture looked OK.
She was hesistant in prescribing an antibotic but felt it might be a good idea because of the condition of the beak plus an antifungal.
The antibotic is enrofloxacin 40mg/ml .11ml twice a day for 7 days.
She prescribed a antifungal but I had to order it in a pharmacy (It should be in by tomorrow)
He is gaining weight and feathering.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Glad you had him checked out well, and the vet decided to be cautious and add the additional meds into his treatment regimen. I, myself, might be painting the tip of the beak with a bit of Neosporin with a small brush a few times a day for good measure. Glad he is gaining some weight and his feathering is improving, please keep us updated.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I don't like giving him meds but I think I have no choice. The vet also suggested spirulina to his diet. thoughts about that?
I ground up the spiralina tablet up and sprinkled it in his food.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I don't like giving him meds but I think I have no choice. The vet also suggested spirulina to his diet. thoughts about that?
> I ground up the spiralina tablet up and sprinkled it in his food.


If you are not doing it already, you may find wrapping him up in a small towel will help things, kind of "burrito Style" when where the towel is the wrapping and he is the filling with his head poking out the end. Spirulina should be fine, it will boost his protein and also supplement him with a good range of other essentials such a vitamin A, the B vitamins, amino acids and minerals as well.

Here is a good breakdown of what it contains:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...lina.php+spirulina+pigeons&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk

Karyn


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Deformed beak may be a sequele of the pox infection,Most propably the bird will loose its upper beak...dont worry,i have a bird with no upper beak and its one of my good breeders...and even feeds her youngsters


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

*Here is her picture *


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*deformed beak and giardia*

Oh I don't really having a problem actually administrating meds. I just hate bombarding him with chemicals in his little system.
I thought it was a pox infection but the vet said it definitely was not but from some sort of trauma.
Boneyrajan, How does your pigeon without the top beak eat?


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

pirab buk said:


> Oh I don't really having a problem actually administrating meds. I just hate bombarding him with chemicals in his little system.
> I thought it was a pox infection but the vet said it definitely was not but from some sort of trauma.
> Boneyrajan, How does your pigeon without the top beak eat?


I just trained her to do it that way...she just pushes the food against the food tray,she also feeds her youngsters....i have hatched out many youngsters from this pair .Pigeons are very intelligent


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They can eat that way in a domestic setting (like a loft with deep feeders) but they don't do well (usually starve) in the wilds having to pick up single seeds from hard surfaces.

Pidgey


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

My pigeon can't pick up food on the floor. He can eat in a 2 inch deep cup. My bird could not survive in the wild.
BTW the anti-fungal meds which I had to order at a pharmacy is fluconazole 10mg/ml at .3ml 2x a day for 7 days.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

It may take a number of weeks after treatment for the beak to settle down, so we can start to get an idea where he is going to end up with it, so let's give him sometime and see how things go.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you all for your support!
What about diet? Right now, I am feeding him a mix of budgie seed, Harrison's mash and Harrison's tiny pellets with a pinch of spirulina. I stopped the grit right now since he is on meds.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> Thank you all for your support!
> What about diet? Right now, I am feeding him a mix of budgie seed, Harrison's mash and Harrison's tiny pellets with a pinch of spirulina. I stopped the grit right now since he is on meds.


The Budgie seed is not going to be substantial enough for him. Harrison's makes two kinds of smaller pellets, Fine, and I think Super Fine, if you have the Super Fine, these will be too small, he will need the Fine size. 

A few days ago the same issue came up in another thread for a juvenile bird, here is a link to the thread, it will save me some typing  and may be useful for you to read as well, on what can be done and used:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/feral-pigeon-from-a-cave-55347-3.html

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I had bought dove seed mix but the peas etc.. are too big for him since he has this weird beak issue. Even the super fines Harrisons pellets can be a an issue so I mix it with a the mash.
Another issue which is odd is about 10 days ago he had feather lice. I sprayed him with scalex and the lice came off in piles. It was pretty gross. When I brought him for his vet check the vet said she did not see any more lice. I've been checking him constainly and haven't seen any since. However, I am guessing this is a result from having the lice that his feathers coming in looked like they have been munched on with stress lines. I will take some photos to show you soon. I don't think this is still an issue but it is odd since you can probably guess regualr outdoor pigeons are covered with feather lice but i don't see chewed up looking feathers.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I had bought dove seed mix but the peas etc.. are too big for him since he has this weird beak issue. Even the super fines Harrisons pellets can be a an issue so I mix it with a the mash.
> Another issue which is odd is about 10 days ago he had feather lice. I sprayed him with scalex and the lice came off in piles. It was pretty gross. When I brought him for his vet check the vet said she did not see any more lice. I've been checking him constainly and haven't seen any since. However, I am guessing this is a result from having the lice that his feathers coming in looked like they have been munched on with stress lines. I will take some photos to show you soon. I don't think this is still an issue but it is odd since you can probably guess regualr outdoor pigeons are covered with feather lice but i don't see chewed up looking feathers.


As mentioned, I think when you can, you should change the Super Fine to Fine pellets, as he may have an easier time with these. In the thread I linked, I mentioned some things that could be picked up and added to enhance a mix, if you wanted to pick up some split peas, (take out any whole peas already in the mix), the brown lentils, mung beans and small pop corn you could try that. As a starting point, for each 2 cups of the regular mix, I would add 1/4 cup of split peas, 1/4 cup of small brown lentils (there is a large and smaller one of these), 1/4 cup of mung beans and 1/4 cup of small pop corn and see how he likes this. You can fine tune things for amounts when you see how he does.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok thanks. I'll give it a try


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*feather destruction from feather lice*

Ah ha! Here is photo of what the feathers look like from which I beleive, was from the feather lice he had 10 days ago.
Has any of you ever encountered feather lice or mites at all?
So far, after his treatment I have not seen any feather lice.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*hanging in there!*

My little pigeon is now at 333 grams! He is just about done with his meds.
He is alert and content. He no longer wants to be hand fed-which is a good thing. He flaps his wings and lifts about an inch off the floor but is still not flighted.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a good pigeon care book?
I have the "flying's vets guide to pigeon health" but I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds like things are going well, which is good to hear . Others may make some suggestions for books for you, but in our resource section there is quite a bit of information that may be helpful to read through. Also, a while back one of our forum members (philodice) wrote a free on-line book about Pigeons, here is a link to it: http://www.fictionpress.com/s/2769892/1/Columbia_Livia_Keeping_Pigeons . Plus, if you are ever puzzled about something or need more information, you can always just ask in your thread, or start a new one.

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the link


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I talked to my vet right after all the meds were completed. She was pleased with the progress. I was still concerned with the feather damage-even though I didn't see any lice. She thought it was probably a good idea for one more scalex treatment so that is what I did this morning for good measure. by tomorrow I will see if any (more lice) fall off of him.
This weekend, he will be moving into a nice new large hutch with a perch and cubby cave. As I was assembling it he was walking around giving it the "inspection".
I honestly can not believe how friendly and affectionate pigeons are.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> I talked to my vet right after all the meds were completed. She was pleased with the progress. I was still concerned with the feather damage-even though I didn't see any lice. She thought it was probably a good idea for one more scalex treatment so that is what I did this morning for good measure. by tomorrow I will see if any (more lice) fall off of him.
> This weekend, he will be moving into a nice new large hutch with a perch and cubby cave. As I was assembling it he was walking around giving it the "inspection".
> I honestly can not believe how friendly and affectionate pigeons are.


At about 3-4 months old, he will go through his first molt and get a new set of feathers, so just be patient, in time, he will look like a shiny new penny .

Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*so far, doing OK*

Craow Dum seems to be doing A-ok. I finally got him to eat on his own. He would chase me screaming slapping me with his wings. He nows eats completely on his own with his cup. I am now working at exercising his wings. I chuck him in the air (not high just 3 feet) and he will flutter onto his pigeon house. I am guessing he is at least 8 weeks old now.
He gets pigeon seed (dove food) mixed with harrison's pellets. I can't seem to get him to eat even finely chopped veggies.
Can anyone recommend a packaged pigeon food that is complete?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds good, some just do not like to eat the veggies, kind of like kids I guess , keep trying though. If he is eating the Harrison's pellets, those in themselves are a complete diet, with all the essentials nutritional elements added he will need, the addition of seeds is a good thing to do as well.

For a seed mix, that's fairly easy to find you could get him the Kaytee one:

http://www.petextreme.com/product/kaytee-supreme-dove-mix-5-lb


Karyn


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

*thanks!*

Oh I buy that kaytee dove mix So I am guessing I am on the right track along with the harrison's.


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