# found about 25-30 days old pigeon, can't fly, healthy



## karotka

I've found a pigeon, young, gray beek, feet, eyes, can't fly, healthy, so it's a baby. Based on the photos I saw he seems to be about 25-30 days old. But then again, I know exactly zero about young pigeons. 
Photo attached, he is in a small box in which I got a book from Amazon if you're wondering about his size in comparison. 

He was sitting by a construction site where a house was demolished yesterday. which is inconveniently right next to so called "boulevard of death" aka Queens Boulevard in New York, Queens. 
There was no bird parents or a possible nest site next to it. 

So now I have a bird at home that can't fly, I gave him pigeon/dove seed and mealworms, seeds he pecked, but only a few, worms he ignored, water as well ignored. He drinks if I drip drop by drop water on his beek, so that's what I'm doing. 
I turned on heat in the house to keep him warm, he was fluffing his feathers and seemed cold.. And alone. :-( 
Obviously I'm keeping my two cats behind closed doors. 
And I am rummaging for a bigger box. 
I anticipate he will fly in a couple of weeks, but I really don't know. 

My questions: 
- how much should he eat? 
- what else to provide? 
- what should I know, look out for, beware, etc. 
- what age do you think he is? 
- when do they fly and how can I help him best? 
- anyone in my area experienced and willing to take him? 
Thank you for any advice ..


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## Charis

Thank you for saving the baby. If the baby is fluffed and cold, it's important to give him supplemental heat. The very best would be to put a heating pad half under his box. Half under so he can get away from the heat if he gets too warm. The heating pad should be on the low setting and not higher. Birds that are sick or starving are unable to regulate their own body temp and so the heat that is direct is best. If you don't have a heating pad, you can warm a sock full of rice in the micro wave. Be careful not to get it so hot so as to burn the baby.The biggest problem with the sock is that is cools down and so you will need to reheat it often.
Likely the baby has no concept of what food is and so you will need to hand feed him. Here are some pre-written feeding instructions that work very well for pigeons his age.


You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.
__________________


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## Charis

You can give this place a call and see if they will take him or help you find a foster home. If they don't return your call, keep calling. It's a very busy place.

The Wild Bird Fund, Inc.
c/o Animal General
558 Columbus Ave
New York, NY 10024
646-306-2862
Animal General is located on the northwest corner of Columbus and West 87th Street
http://www.wildbirdfund.com/


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## karotka

Thank you!! 
I don't have a heating pad, but I'll go see if any open store carries that. Meanwhile rice sock it is. 
30-50 peas?! Lord Almighty, that's a lot! LOL - like half his body weight! Well, good to have an amount to aim for. I'll feed at least 30 and treat each next one he eats as a bonus . . Is there anything else I should buy and feed the baby? 
How long before he flies? Can I help him with that?


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## Charis

karotka said:


> Thank you!!
> I don't have a heating pad, but I'll go see if any open store carries that. Meanwhile rice sock it is.
> 30-50 peas?! Lord Almighty, that's a lot! LOL - like half his body weight! Well, good to have an amount to aim for. I'll feed at least 30 and treat each next one he eats as a bonus . . Is there anything else I should buy and feed the baby?
> How long before he flies? Can I help him with that?



Look for a dove mix that you can put in his box with him. A heavy dish with water, so he doesn't tip it, would be good too. The water needs to be 3" deep or so because of the way pigeons. Do take it out at night though.
I suspect that as he gains strength, he will practice flying so give him time to do that.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to have Wildcare check him out.


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## karotka

The Wild Bird Fund @ 646-306-2862 is closed now, I'll try them again on Monday. 

I'm wondering if they do care for pigeons, I think he would do best with someone who knows how to properly care for him instead of just caring about his wellbeing. 

I've found the heating pad at the pharmacy, and the frozen peas, regular sized, green. I'm defrosting them and will feed the little winged guest in a moment. He pecks at the seed, but mostly just tossed it around. I don't see much missing. It's the dove/pigeon seed mix. And I still have the mealworms that lady at the pet store said I should crush and feed. 
I'll start with the peas. 

Thanks again, and if anything else pops to mind, please let me know!


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## Dima

I would say the pigeon is older than 30 days. It's about 6-7 weeks old, otherwise at 30 days you would see some yellow fluff on his head. It is new to suroundings i think; but in a few days he should do the usual wings flapping and from there on it will be able to fly, but not too far from the nest...make sure there is nothing slippery on the floor around; i don't want to get its legs splayed (i burnt myself with that).
Dove and pigeon mix seeds it good. I entise the baby pigeons to eat by tapping with my finger in the bowl with seeds and they get excited, squeals, they get curious and start imitating with their beak..keep doing that a couple times a day and eventualy it will learn to eat in shortly.


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## karotka

6-7 weeks, you say? 
He's older than I thought then. 
I hope so, because I want to help, not do him some harm and the older he is, the more likely I can be of assistance to his happy growing into adulthood. 

Is he supposed to be this bony? He's so skinny! I guess birds that fly can't be chunky, but his sternum (that long bone in the middle) is sticking out a lot. 

Well, the baby bird didn't get the memo about him having to eat that much. He is probably also scared of new surroundings, lack of his mom and dad so those seeds he pecked, the 20 peas and one mealworm will have to suffice until morning. It's 9:30PM now, I turned off the light and will let him sleep. 

He has the heating pad, water bowl, seed bowl, and the remaining peas he didn't want to eat, and room to get away from heat and food. Should be ok for the night. 

I don't know if he was knocked out of nest by demolition people or if he fell out of the nest or if we was actually trying to fly. 
He definitely can not fly. 
He does flap wings to wriggle out of my hands when I feed him the peas. 
He seems ok, other than scared and skinny, he isn't all fluffed up like he was when I found him, but is there anything I should watch out for?


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## Quazar

karotka said:


> 6-7 weeks, you say?
> He's older than I thought then.
> I hope so, because I want to help, not do him some harm and the older he is, the more likely I can be of assistance to his happy growing into adulthood.
> 
> Is he supposed to be this bony? He's so skinny! I guess birds that fly can't be chunky, but his sternum (that long bone in the middle) is sticking out a lot.
> 
> Well, the baby bird didn't get the memo about him having to eat that much. He is probably also scared of new surroundings, lack of his mom and dad so those seeds he pecked, the 20 peas and one mealworm will have to suffice until morning. It's 9:30PM now, I turned off the light and will let him sleep.
> 
> He has the heating pad, water bowl, seed bowl, and the remaining peas he didn't want to eat, and room to get away from heat and food. Should be ok for the night.
> 
> I don't know if he was knocked out of nest by demolition people or if he fell out of the nest or if we was actually trying to fly.
> He definitely can not fly.
> He does flap wings to wriggle out of my hands when I feed him the peas.
> He seems ok, other than scared and skinny, he isn't all fluffed up like he was when I found him, but is there anything I should watch out for?


I agree with Dima, I'm not much good at judging ages properly, but hes def older and I would say SHOULD be flying anddef eating. No "hairy wispy" young feathers and also you can see the orange/red ring in the eyes pretty clearly.

First thing is to ignore the woman in the pet shop !!! Pigeons DONT eat worms, they are seed eaters.
As others say, it should be kept warm, and from the sound of what you say about being thin, definately needs fed. Extreme lack of food will cause him not to fly.
I'm actually wondering if his home has been demolished and he has also lost his family. He will obviously be scared of his new surroundings & you at the moment. As Dima also says, try pecking at seeds with your finger to get him interested.
As far as water goes, add a pinch of sugar and a pinch of salt (also a pinch of baking soda if you have it) to some TEPID water (NOT COLD). 
Gently guide his beak to it & dip it in (not up past the nostrills) and he should drink. You may have to do this several times for him to get the idea.
If you do need to hand feed, wrap him in a towel with his feet pointing directly to his tail.
This will help stop him wriggling free, and after a few attempts to feed will also keep him calmer and hopefully more responsive to eat.
When you open his beak, pop the pea in towards the back & he should swallow it.
While youre doing that, have a look inside his mouth & make sure it is nice & pink, not grey or any yellow/whitish bits.
(Please note - DONT force any water into his mouth this way as he could aspirate & die. If he def wont drink, just dribble some drops of water onto the side of his beak)
Also, going on the idea that he should be flying but just isnt, make sure all doors windows etc are shut so he cant fly away just in case after some rest he suddenly does has enough strength to fly.
Pigeons hide any illnesses they may have to try to avoid attack predators, and even if it is only hunger, he doesent seem 100% well enough to survive in the wild at the moment.


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## Jay3

Yes, please get rid of the mealworms. Don't give those to him. As Quazar mentioned, you can teach him to drink by slowly dipping his beak into the tepid water, but only up to the nostrils, not over them. After you have fed him peas for a few feedings, you can leave some with him, and eventually he will learn to pick them up on his own, although this may take a little while. He's really skinny because he has not had enough to eat. He will fill out in time.


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## jondove

I agree with everybody else, he looks older than 30 days. I also understand he pecked the peas himself, this also should mean he is not so young. 

On the other hand young pigeons learn how to fly before they are weaned, so it's a bad sign that he is not flying yet. There might be an underlying illness. Generally speaking, when you can catch a pigeon there is usually something wrong with him, unless it's a very young baby that just fell out of the nest.

The first thing you should do when he gets a little stronger, would be to worm him. But if you take him to the Wild Bird Fund, they'll know what to do.

They do take in pigeons too (http://wildbirdfund.com/clients/pigeon/), but as they are not federally protected birds and you don't seem to have a critical case...



> The Wild Bird Fund cares for all federally protected birds and critical cases, and trains the rescuer how to care for the non-critical patients.


... you may still have to take care of this little fellow yourself.


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## karotka

Yes, there was a construction site right where I found him. Big developer bought out a chain of stores and demolished them on Friday. He might have lost his family. :-( 
Would they find each other and reunite? 
What happens when he can fly? Will he be ok, or should I keep him home until some milestone, like flying same way other pigeons do, meaning quite well? 

As of this morning he flaps his wings and stretches them, and is FAR more alert (and unhappy about being handled) than the passive attitude he had yesterday. 
Essentially after being forcefed the peas yesterday and today, along with water, he's "agreed" to drink water (with sugar and salt) on his own. 
He's happy to walk about on the carpet, but his wings just won't let him lift off. 

I can't begin to explain how relieved I was to get rid of the mealworms .. Eew. 
He is now vigorously pecking the seeds, and quite enjoys sunshine on the windowsill. He seems ok, but as someone mentioned, birds hide illness. 

I'll keep providing food, water and warmth, and hope he will be able to fly soon. I am contacting the Wild Bird people on Monday, but aren't too hopeful since this isn't a critical case. 

I have to say, this bird is stoic. My younger cat is bent on playing with the new feathered friend so closed doors are a must now. 

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE ADVICE, PLEASE KEEP IT COMING IF SOMETHING POPS TO MIND!


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## Jay3

If he can't fly, there has to be a reason. This bird should be flying. He might be sick and too weak to fly, or just weak from starvation, and that would stop him from flying. If that is the case, and hopefully it is, then as he builds his strength he should be able to fly.
And he can't be released til he is flying well. Otherwise he can't get around to find food and water, and would not be able to avoid hawks and other predators.


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## Dima

The pigeon pecks seeds and drinks water: it's very good sign; he also flaps and stretching his wings ( i believe by standing on one leg- right?). Now he needs to learn to fly.
I was exercising with my squabs flying by holding them on my palm and gently moving my arm up and down;once lowering your arm they feel the downward motion and start flapping...keep doing that a few times a day..you can increase the speed when lowering your hand and it will flap faster and its feet get off your hand, but don't pull back your hand..have him trust you....there comes a point when he will get fed up with this trick or tired and he will decide to take off to land..make sure he can land safely.It should be fun for you doing this.
Just in case there is some underlying illness, i would take him to the Wild bird Fund if they can run some poop test and get a thoroughly examination.

All the best for you and your rescued pigeon. Thanks for caring so much.

PS My first two pigeons were 1 yr old racing pigeons. I brought them in the house and they didn't move from the top of their boxes or ate for two days.


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## Jay3

This bird should be able to fly. I think he knows how to fly, but he is either sick or too weak and can't just yet. He doesn't need to be taught, and if weak or sick, trying to get him to, could be stressful.


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## Dima

Yes, Jay, i agree with you...just didn't think about that...
I guess i am eager to know he can fly. I hope Karotka has patience and take your advice.


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## Jay3

They don't normally need incouragement. When they can fly, they just do. I do have a splayed leg bird that had to learn, as he didn't stand in the beginning, and couldn't easily take off. We had to encourage him to fly. Now he goes all over the place. Of course, he also had to learn to land safely too, as he had to learn about lowering his landing gear. He is something else. Scooter is one of a kind.


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## karotka

He flew a foot off my hand onto windowsill! 
 
So the wings are working, just not so well. Yet. 

He's back to fluffing up, but now he's also preening his feathers, and standing on one leg. Is that normal? 
Oh, he does not like peas. He pecks seeds, eats peas if I feed him, but only a few. After about 10-15 he just won't have it. But as long as he eats seeds, I won't intervene much. Is that ok? Should I force him anyway? 
He drinks water on his own, no problem. I added sugar&salt to it. Just a little bit. 
Well, the gross part.. Poop. He keeps pooping a lot, it's all almost solid and dark green, from what I've read it's normal. 
Is it? 

But he shivers a bit sometimes. I wrapped him in paper towel and held him in my lap covered with my hand to transfer more heat from my body to him and he slept like that, but the house is HOT and he still puffs up sometimes. 
Should I worry? 

All over, he seems MUCH better than 24 hours ago, but as I've mentioned, I know exactly ZERO about birds. 

PS. I do have patience, I am nervous that I'll do something to inadvertently decrease his chaces. I'm calling Wild Bird Fund tomorrow (Monday) to get their input, and I appreciate you all helping with your advice. GREATLY SO! 
I've rescued odd animals, snake, frozen mouse off snow, various birds that just needed water and flew off, birds that were obviously injured and I took to ver, stray dogs, cats, kittens from trash (that's where my younger cat came from), rat that was about to be snake food, etc. 
I'm simply anxious because "you don't know what you don't know" and can end up doing harm. 
Like that girl in another thread that fed the bird 3 peas and wondered why it died. 
So if you want to give me some "tough love", that's fine, too. As long as the outcome is a happy rehabilitated bird, it's all right.


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## jondove

Usually young pigeons can't eat bigger grains/seeds, if he is eating enough of the smaller ones, it's probably ok. 
I wouldn't add sugar to the water anymore, now that he started to eat by himself, that might favor thrush in the crop. Salt isn't needed either if he isn't dehydrated. In fact, less than 1 g of salt would be enough to kill a young pigeon (lethal dose = 3.5 g/kg).

A pigeon lying on his belly all the time is a sign of illness, standing on one leg is normal, some pigeons even sleep on one leg.

The fact that he shivers does not mean he is cold, young pigeons do that sometimes when people are around. And even when older pigeons are bullying them. 

Fluffing up could mean he is cold, probably sick. But if he is fluffing up just when he is preening, that's normal. The fact that he is preening is also a good sign.

And of course, it's great that he started to fly a little!


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## Jay3

If he is eating enough seed that should be fine. Give him a mix, as different pigeons like different seeds. Many do start on the smaller seeds, but I had one that always favored the large canadian peas from the time he started pecking at seed, and he still favors the larger seeds and peas. I agree with jondove that you can give him just plain water now. And all else he said about the fluffing up and shivering.


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## karotka

jondove said:


> Usually young pigeons can't eat bigger grains/seeds, if he is eating enough of the smaller ones, it's probably ok.
> I wouldn't add sugar to the water anymore, now that he started to eat by himself, that might favor thrush in the crop. Salt isn't needed either if he isn't dehydrated. In fact, less than 1 g of salt would be enough to kill a young pigeon (lethal dose = 3.5 g/kg).
> 
> A pigeon lying on his belly all the time is a sign of illness, standing on one leg is normal, some pigeons even sleep on one leg.
> 
> The fact that he shivers does not mean he is cold, young pigeons do that sometimes when people are around. And even when older pigeons are bullying them.
> 
> Fluffing up could mean he is cold, probably sick. But if he is fluffing up just when he is preening, that's normal. The fact that he is preening is also a good sign.
> 
> And of course, it's great that he started to fly a little!


Phew! Ok, so the fluffing up most likely is because he's just in an unfamiliar setting with people. Ok, I'll keep giving water/food/warmth and see what the bird fund prefers in this situation. 
 
Thank you!


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## jondove

karotka said:


> Phew! Ok, so *the fluffing up* most likely is because he's just in an unfamiliar setting with people.!


NO, the shivering (not the fluffing up) is something they will do when excited or nervous. And it's not just because of the unfamiliar setting, I've even had hand raised pigeons trembling like that at a certain age, though they were very familiar with the place and with me.
If you could watch him without him seeing you, you'd see he doesn't shiver anymore after you left the room.

Fluffing up is bad in principle, but if he is doing that only occasionally it's probably nothing to worry about too.


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## kabotar

best of luck


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## Dima

Keep us updated with anythings that captures your attention.

Thanks.


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## karotka

Well, the wild bird fund is unreachable, so I'm on my own. I guess pigeon isn't high on a priority list. 
Birdie is alive and (I hope) well, so I'll keep on keeping on. 
The problem I have is that he doesn't eat enough. I try to handfeed him, yesterday evening he ate all the peas I fed hid, but he wasn't happy about it. 
Today he is back to the "no" stage. 
But. 
He's trying to fly more. Not that he can actually do it, but he's trying. 
He can fly down off a windowsill onto carpet or off your hand. Down. 
But once he's down he just walks. 
Which is great, because he's too skinny in my opinion (again, zero bird knowledge) to be even contemplating flying. He needs to fatten up, then I'll try those encouraging gentle excercises Dima has mentioned to help him fly. 
So maybe next week. 
Meanwhile, he's not eating enough in my opinion. He pecks the seeds throughout the day, ate about 1/4 cup. 
So I want to feed him...and he doesn't think so. 
Little dude (or girl) has an attitude! 
The little head hides when he has had enough pea feeding. 
He is enjoying corn muffin crumbs tho. But literally few crumbs. Not enough for me to be happy with food intake. 
I don't know. What do you guys think? 

Two questions: 
-is his neck supposed to be bald and featherless underneath? Is he ok? Should I do anything for that? 
-can I trust his feeding intake to his pecking? I would feel better if I did forcefeed him the peas, but it isn't about me feeling better but his health. So what do I do?


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## Jay3

They only eat about 2 oz. a day. That's only about 1/8 cup.

Can you post pics of his neck where the feathers are missing? Feathers shouldn't be missing.


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## jondove

If the bald spot is something like the one I was asking about a few months ago in this post: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/bald-patch-is-that-normal-58471.html it could be normal.

About the feeding... you cannot always trust a young pigeon just out of the nest, or a possibly sick pigeon, to eat properly. But if he is producing enough droppings and they are solid, then there's no need to hand feed.


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## karotka

Yes, it is something like that picture, except this guy has a much smaller bald spot under his neck, no yellow tufts, and more adult feathers. 

Poop is dark green and solid. 
He eats and drinks more when he's being encouraged by guiding his head gently towards the bowl with water and bird seeds. 
Sometimes he pecks at my hand when I do that. Also, when I pick him up with both hands on his sides, he pecks at my finger. Not hard, just a peck. Is it a way of asking for food or telling me politely to go away?


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## karotka

Another thing.... I keep him in a milk crate (that's the large plastic cage-like container) next to radiator set on low so he has room to step away from heat. He likes heat though. When I hold him in my lap, he snuggles his head into his chest and closes eyes to sleep. Which made feeding difficult. Hah. 

He puffs up when we transfer him from warmer floor to colder windowsill, but then after few minutes he starts preening and stretching and looking for seeds. 

Daytime he still has to be in a crate until my child gets home from school, (we have a curious younger cat) then birdie walks around the windowsill and carpet, preens, stretches, flaps. 

How much time does a young bird need outside the crate? Is about 6 hours per day ok? 
There are two rooms where I can keep him: 
-one is cat free but colder and darker with tile (non-slippery) on the floor. He can roam free there all day, but it's colder and darker. 
- the other is brighter, warm, but I have to keep him in a crate when he's home alone because of the younger cat. He is free when my child gets home to supervise. 

What's better?


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## Jay3

He would be better off safely in a cage in the warmer room. He shouldn't be left out unattended anyway. If he isn't where a cat cannot get up to, then he isn't safe. Cats can reach into places. I don't know what you mean by a milk crate. How old is your child?


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## karotka

Pigeon is doing great, learning to fly well now. 
He eats on his own, poop has not changed. I'm assuming that means he can feed himself when food is provided. 

How do I show hi how to find food outside? 

I'm keeping him in the living room where it's warm, safely supervised during playtime and tucked away when no one (except cats) is home. 
Birdie flew today the length of the room, upwards. 
After a flight he is tired and can only walk until he recovers. 

When will he be ready to do the soft release?


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## Dima

It's good to know he'ss excercising. I don't think is yet the time to release him if he get tired so quick.
Regarding missing feathers on the chest. One of my pigeons had the same problem. His mother was the only one who loved to eat bread crumbs. And i was offering her every day as a treat; then i read that bread fed birds can induce baldness in babies.My pigeon plumage is fine now.


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## Jaye

I agree...give him another few days of indoor practice flying. You can then start Soft release, keeping in mind he will need a good 4 sessions of acclimation, minimum (you can skip a day in there).


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## karotka

I am very grateful for Al of you, your patience with someone who has no clue about birds, and the explanations - thank you!! 
 
My high school kid is off today, so pigeon can fly around to his heart's content under supervision. This morning birdie flew off the windowsill (his preferred daytime place) to my kids bed, saw a cat on the bed, turned around, flew around the room and back on windowsill. 
That's quite a trip. He's getting stronger! 
 

The old cat doesn't care about anything other than warm place and full bowl. 
The young cat sniffs, wants to play, tries to curiously touch whatever creature happens to be visiting. No matter what, I don't want a feral bird getting the idea that all cats are only interested in sniffing. 

About the release: there is only weekends, 2 days, when I can take birdie out to acquaint himself with his peers during the day around where I've found him. If it has to be a minimum of 4 days, things will be tricky. 

What would you suggest?


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## Quazar

karotka said:


> I am very grateful for Al of you, your patience with someone who has no clue about birds, and the explanations - thank you!!
> 
> My high school kid is off today, so pigeon can fly around to his heart's content under supervision. This morning birdie flew off the windowsill (his preferred daytime place) to my kids bed, saw a cat on the bed, turned around, flew around the room and back on windowsill.
> That's quite a trip. He's getting stronger!
> 
> 
> The old cat doesn't care about anything other than warm place and full bowl.
> The young cat sniffs, wants to play, tries to curiously touch whatever creature happens to be visiting. No matter what, I don't want a feral bird getting the idea that all cats are only interested in sniffing.
> 
> About the release: there is only weekends, 2 days, when I can take birdie out to acquaint himself with his peers during the day around where I've found him. If it has to be a minimum of 4 days, things will be tricky.
> 
> What would you suggest?


Please do not let him out in the same room as a cat, even with supervision.
He may be getting stronger, but if he were to falter & a cat get near him (even playfully) it would be very dangerous for him.
Cats saliva contains bacteria which can quickly overpower & kill a bird if it gets into their bloodstream, either form a small scratch or if it gets on their feathers & they preen themselves. A bird that is not 100% yet and recovering from other problems is even more at risk as it would take hold even quicker.


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## Jaye

Right...you don't even want any cat to TOUCH a bird....as Quazar notes...any contact with saliva, a wet nose, or a claw could be enough to infect the Pigeon.

Well....do the weekend days. You say you have a HS kid. Can he/she possibly do ONE afternoon, after school, of release acclimation with the Pigeon ? Maybe have him/her bring a friend just for moral support.

So, if you did, say....Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday...you could conceivably release on the next Sunday or maybe the next Wednesday.....

...remember, only takes about 10-15 minutes per session....


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## karotka

There isn't much space, so choices are: 
- colder/damper/darker room without cats 
- warmer/dryer/lighter room with the cats 
Someone said the warmer space is better, that's why pigeon is there. What do you guys think? Move him? 

About 15 minutes session should be do-able once during the week. There's a park where old people sit and play chess within 5 blocks from where I found the birdie. I hope for the little one to find his original friends/family if any of them survived construction. 
Is that a good place to sit with him? Or does it not matter much where he is as long as there are pigeons? 
How do I hold him? 

Sorry about the ignorant questions, I really don't know anything about them. Shameful, really, given that the pigeon is the most often encountered bird in our lives .. 
Thanks again!


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## jondove

You should read this thread: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/looking-for-advice-on-pigeon-release-49189.html


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## karotka

Good thread. 
Scary, but good. 
Especially the part about birdie flying away with a cast still on. 

I haven't thought about people staring and commenting.. there are some nosey old people in the area! 
To be honest I'd rather avoid the questioning on what am I doing with the bird. Pigeons aren't viewed as the greatest asset around here. 

I'll have to figure out how to make this work.


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## Jay3

HE doesn't have to go back to the same flock really. Is there somewhere that there are flocks of pigeons that people feed? You would have to keep him in a cage to bring him there and acquaint him with the others.


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## karotka

This is peculiar, there are usually many pigeons walking about the lawn and pecking things people dropped. I remember sitting in that park last month, and there were tons of them. 
But when I was looking yesterday, there was a pair of birds courting (one ws doing the twirling and tail dragging dance) and there was a single pigeon that came down and then took off. There were also 6 pigeons on top of a restaurant. 
Where did they all go? 
I don't think anyone feeds them, because there are no seeds anywhere and there are signs posted prohibiting feeding animals. 

Would the 6 suffice as a flock? I hope so, doesn't seem like much of a choice. Today weather is bad, so I'll have to start acclimation later when it improves. I'm sure there will be 20 minutes when I can take him to hang out with his new buddies. 
The 6 on the restaurant are on my way to work. I can drop off food on the sly in the mornings for them. At least until someone catches me doing that.


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## Jay3

Well, you need to get them all down and eating around the caged bird. Is there anywhere else they gather?


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## karotka

There is no place that I could find in this area where people purposely feed pigeons or appreciate them. Even the restaurant people don't take kindly to the idea of another pigeon that will "dirty up" the place. Unfortunately this isn't the most beloved bird. 
:-( 

But I put some bird seed in the back of the house, and a pigeon (solitary) came to investigate. "My" birdie went nuts! He was trying to peck his way through the window or beat it with wings. If he could, he would definitely escape. After a while he calmed down and started imitating the one outside in seed pecking. The other bird pays no attention. 

This morning the bird came back, I put more seeds and multigrain bread out and "my" pigeon again got happy with the visit. 
Sparrows are coming by, too. And a cardinal, and some starlings. 
Pigeon doesn't care about other types of birds but gets really excited when he sees another pigeon outside. 

He is flying very well, filled out a little so the bone isn't sticking out so much, is much stronger and doesn't like being handled.

I don't know, the release would be working better if there was a flock he could join. Maybe just let him hang out with the solitary bird and feed them here?


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## Dima

If you keep putting seeds in your garden there shloud be more pigeons soon. 
I was doing that many years ago, when i had no pigeons on my own. Every day at the same time i would have a big tray with seeds spread in it. At the begining was one, then 2, then 5..it end up with at least 14...Pay attention what time the pigeon comes every day for food, as you don't want to waste your seed through your day with other birds. If you have a bird cage you can put it in the yard, once you get a few more pigeon coming by. It may be the best way if there no other option.

I am glad to know your pigeon is happy at the sight on the visitor pigeon. It's ok if you cannot handle it as long as he is feeding by himself and is getting healtier; if he becomes like a pet, he may not be able to survive by it own in the wild.


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## karotka

Birdie is getting more and more acquainted with the other lone pigeon. 
He's also much stroneger now. There are sparrows, cardinals, starlings, mourning dove (sometimes two) as well. 
It's super funny to watch, because pigeon doesn't care about other birds, only gets all excited when the visiting pigeon shows up. 

They've been "hanging out" past few days, my kid took pigeon out in the back of the house in the crate and put seeds in and around it so the two could get to know each other for an hour or so at a time. Was rainy, but there was always a moment water-free. 
Well, tomorrow morning I'm going to let him get out of the crate when the other pigeon shows up to eat. I know it's ok after the process of soft release, but I'm nervous because the other pigeon doesn't seem to care either way whether "my" birdie is around or not. He comes, eats, goes away. 

Hope it's a normal thing and they will end up forming a "flock" with each other.


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## Dima

I wouldn't release the pigeon yet, if he is not flying good.I don't know how much he improved. It's been hanging in the crate with the lonley bird for about 5 days. I am not too sure if that's enough. May be someone will give us some more advise. It would be nice it would start with the lonley pigeon a new flock, but 2 is not a flock.
It may happen that if you release him, he will not follow the lonley pigeon and he may end up wondering around your house or get lost.
We really need advise on this one.


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## karotka

Update: 
I'm happy to say that birdie is doing great, joined the single pigeon that was visiting. They come together to peck seed. 
I keep putting out dove/pigeon seed and finch seeds, too. 
Have a whole lot of sparrows, some starlings, one black/blue bird, one black bird with yellow stripe on wings, some bluejays sometimes, four mourning doves, cardinal, and now five pigeons that come to eat, including "mine" and his/her friend. 
They don't come all at once, so I'm not sure if it's a flock. I am really doumbfounded as to where the pigeons went. 
There used to be soooooo many and now you can barely find a handful. 

Anyway, I'm glad birdie is ok now. Chunkier and glossier definitely. 
 

Thank you all for the advice, I wouldn't know how to help witout it.


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## Luftty

thats fantastic news!! 
great quartet of pigeons there! 

you did a great job, too bad most people dont apreciate such a wonderful bird.


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## Dima

Great news. You got quite a flock. 
Good job!
The pigeons and all other birds will always come as long as you keep feeding them.

I feel like i need to hear the story when you released the pigeon. Can you update?


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