# Of Crows and gulls...



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

As an offshoot to the Crows / pigeons discussion, the picture is pretty much black n white round here - the Crows and the gulls are both neighbors and sworn enemies.

I'm two blocks from the sea and opposite, and round the corner from, my apartment are pitched roof houses and apartment blocks, with chimney stacks or big, square flat sections. On and around these nest the Herring Gulls, year after year as long as I can recall. 

There's plenty of old, large houses with shrubbery and trees here, too, and excellent territory for songbirds and others. Some of this territory has been claimed by a pair of Crows, who regularly patrol the lawn in the 'courtyard' (OK, car park) and an area surrounding this apartment complex. I believe the same pair have been in residence for years, and sometimes have to thwart would-be takeover bids from other Crows. 

Right now, one pair of gulls is constructing a nest across the street. I was just watching more nesting material arriving - sticks and, possibly, seaweed. The Crows are ferrying sticks for their nest in one of the larger trees nearby. Hostilities, at a low level til now, will probably warm up!

One time, I saw three or four gulls atop one of the roofs, lounging around, when Mr Crow appeared. He homed in on the group like a dive bomber, skimmed over them by inches (or so it seemed) and caused total consternation among them. Another time, the Crows were on the roof right opposite where, out of sight, I guess a young gull or two were on or near the nest. Three adult gulls came over from the beach direction, and with loud 'shouts' swooped on the Crows (who wisely beat a retreat). Then, couple of years back I spotted a lone gull rounding the other, 14-storey, block. He was really moving, unlike their normal leisurely pace - but then, he was being hotly pursued by both the Crows. 

Just today, at my mother's house a mile or two inland, I witnessed a gull and a Crow engaging in a little aerial hostility. I think the Crow was trying to discourage the gull from lounging on the roof next door - unsurprising, since two houses along the Crows have about finished their nest in the only really large tree. Possibly not a great choice (not seen them in previous yeaars) as quite a colony of gulls line nearby roofs!

I never have seen the Crows trouble 'my' ferals who hang out opposite (on the slope above which the nearest gulls nest), or the pigeons appear concerned about Crows. What I did see, maybe three years back, was a gull arriving at nest with something in its beak which looked very much like a yellow chick, which I can only think was a pigeon  

Would a gull be able to get to a Crow nest, in trees? Pretty difficult, I'd say. Must be some reason for the mutual dislike, though.

As an aside, the Crows here will also chase off Magpies - but then, they would take Crow eggs given half a chance, I'm sure.

John


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi John, 

In my travels in San Francisco, I frequently see sparrows, pigeons and sea gulls
sharing the same terrain. The sparrows seem to defer to the pigeons when there is food around, and the pigeons don't seem to mind the sparrows. The
seagulls can't seem to eat all of what the sparrows and pigeons can pick up,
so it would seem that they all have there niche. However, two different people
have told me about stories in which a seagull has either killed and eaten a baby
pigeon or adult (maybe it was a youngbird) pigeon. Could this be possible?!?

Thanks,
fp


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I will tell you one thing - the pigeons definitely do not like the crows here. The crows chase everyone away to get the food. The gulls also chase away the pigeons to get the food. But seeing as though I only feed the pigeons seed, the gulls lose interest and the pigeons are able to eat in peace. I have not seen any fighting going on between gulls and crows - they pretty much go their own way. Chickadees, sparrows and starlings get along with the pigeons and they all eat together in peace. But the gulls and crows are a pain. 

There's nothing like hearing a gull "laugh" to notify the other gulls there's food around. It's so loud that everyone in the parking lot is looking in my direction because one of the loudmouths is sounding off about food. I have to sink down in my car seat when they do this, it's so embarrassing. They're so LOUD. Therefore I do not give out bread, only seed. Shuts them up then because they're not interested in seed.

I noticed I was able to get the pigeons interested in eating seed good for them by giving them fruit flavored seed. Has anyone tried this? It seems to get them to eat something other than sunflower seeds which is good. They may not have many taste buds but they do have some. They must love fruit.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi John, 

Thanks for your vivid and detailed account of the crows and gull interactions that you've witnessed in the past. You're probably right, things have yet to heat up between the two species since there are no young yet by either. 

Both species of bird are very territorial and will defiantly protect their nests/eggs and young. You have herring gulls there which is interesting because these are considerably larger than crows. And I can just picture the crows dive bombing the gulls, this seems to be a signature move that many species of crows seem to do

Here, we have common or american crows and mostly ring billed gulls which are smaller and a little more "dainty" than their bigger cousins the herring gulls. Kind of like how a raven is to a crow. We do have herring gulls here though however but they seem to reside and stick to the shores and islands of Lake Ontario. The ring billed gulls here are the garbage pickers and more of an inland gull. They have learned to take advantage of other food sources and have adapted well to life in the cities with the crows and pigeons. 

The only times I generally witness the ring billed gulls and the crows interacting here, is mostly over food disputes at the local fast food restaurants. Crows and the gulls will hang around the parking lots of these chain restaurants waiting for scraps and it seems to be a game of chess; who will get, keep and take home the "bacon", so to speak. LOL

I've noticed how a crow will divebomb a pair of gulls squabbling over a scrap. One gull will generally spook from the intial attack while the other gull stays to collect the goods. Then, the crow will double back as the first gull has grabbed the food and taken flight, then the aerial dogfight commences. The crow or sometimes two will then persue and harrass this single gull relentlessly until he drops it's item and then the crows will swoop down and grab the stolen goodies. This said though, the gulls don't always give up either. I've also witnessed a gull double back and attempt a dive bomb of it's own but I've generally noticed these forms of attack don't bother the crows nearly as much and will stand their ground. 

It's really quite interesting to see these engagements between the two species and how they cope and deal with one another. 

You are right though, gulls will take young pigeons if they have a chance to do so and magpies will also raid nests of crows or gulls as well. It's a quite a tangled web they all weave. LOL.

Thanks again for the commentary and share more observations if you can when the breeding season hits full tilt


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

LOL, Garye, be glad the gulls aren't a talking species of bird!  I know what 
you mean about announcing to the public your arrival w/food. Can be pretty
embarrassing  
I have tried the smaller pellets that are fruit flavored and the pigeons seem to 
like it, also, I know they like the firm banannas 'cause I've fed them to the pidjes lots. But if I try and sneak in a ripe one they'll have nothing to do w/it!!

Thanks Brad, for responding to my inquiry regarding gulls and pigeons, one of the accounts I thought was believable ( the squab), but one of the 
accounts described a full grown pigeon and I wasn't so sure about that. Although, that one could have in fact just been newly out of the nest.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Garye said:


> There's nothing like hearing a gull "laugh" to notify the other gulls there's food around. It's so loud that everyone in the parking lot is looking in my direction because one of the loudmouths is sounding off about food. I have to sink down in my car seat when they do this, it's so embarrassing. They're so LOUD.


Hi Garye,

LOL, I have to laugh at this myself as well. They are VERY loud when they are calling to their buddies over food. hehehehehehee. I used to feed them at the local mall parking lot in the morning, still do on occasion. But I know what you mean and FP too, they can be really embarrassing and bring attention to what you are doing. LOL


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi FeralPigeon -

It would be possible that some gulls could kill a full grown pigeon. One that comes to mind is the Greater Black-backed Gull - huge and vicious. Fortunately don't have them round here! I'd still say it is unlikely (or just rare?) as the black backs would generally pursue and/or kill other seabirds. But even they are no match for a Skua.

John


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