# urgent help .... pigeon tail missing



## sk8er

Hi,
I caught a wild pigeon and it tried to get away all its tail feathers except 2 came out. I was very sad and decided to keep it home. I left the entire house to himself and a lot of rice but it did not eat anything for 8 hours. When I came back I had the hand feed him the rice and force it down and he finally ate 1 at a time. Now it built it a small cardboard box in which it can get a dark spot to sleep in. However, I have feel very guilty and want to do whatever I can to get its tail and more feathers back. It still struggles and tries to get away from me, although less so, after I fed it some rice.


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## [email protected]

Losing tail feathers is a common escape tactic for many species of birds. They will grow back, although I'm not sure how long that will be. Is the bird injured?

Rice is good to start, but you will need to get a good pigeon mix as soon as possible. I'm guessing you are feeding the rice uncooked?


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## sk8er

thanks for the reply. Yeah, the rice is uncooked. DO they like bread? I shall get the pigeon mix tommorrow but the puzzling thing is before I caught him he used to eat rice by himself. Now he doesnt. 

Here are my problems:

1. I literally have to force it down its throat.
2. How do I make him friendly towards me. I pts its back, do cooing sounds. Try to pke him in several places with my finger but all he ever does when hes loose is try to get away from me.
3. He is not injured otherwise
4. I gave him a bath and he hated that too.
5. He didnt loos the tail feather on purpose. I caught his tail and he still flew away leaving nothing but feathers in my hands.

I dont want to loose this pigeon and plan on keeping him until he is healthy and grows his tail back.

Thanks.


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## pdpbison

Hi sk8er,


So, what is the situation then with you trying to catch this Pigeon who had nothing wrong with it, untill you messed with it and pulled it's Tail out by trying to catch it...? Who now is in a box getting rice shoved down it's throat...


Can you help me understand what you think you are doing?

Are you like 12 or something?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sk8er

I know my post looks immmature, but the reason I wanted to catch it is because it flew into my house. While I tried shooing it out the window I just kelt flying deeper. So I tried catching it so I could relase it out but accidently caught its tail and he tried to fly away and hence all his tail feathers came out. Thats the story... I felt bad and hence decided to keep it until its tail came back.


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## Skyeking

We appreciate you allowing the bird to re-grow its tail feathers in rehab environment, and it will do that in about six weeks, but you have to provide the bird the resources.

Bread is not good for the bird at all, please provide him with a wild dove mix, or pigeon mix, rice alone won't cut it either. He needs some sound nutrition if you want to get him back in shape for the outdoors and get those tail feathers to regrow in good shape.

An avian multi-vitamin in the water once a week wouldn't hurt, either, and a good pigeon grit also.


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## sk8er

thanks. how do i make it friendly towards me?? also it does not eat rice by itself.


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## Skyeking

The best way to get the bird to befriend you is to feed it out of your hand only, before you know it he will be your friend for life. He may or may not become friendly, after all he is a feral pigeon, and he still remembers you pulled his tail out.

Time will tell, if you want to gain the birds confidence try it, daily, consistently, and then wait and see.

If you offer the bird a clean empty cat litter pan filled with water, he may take a bath. I don't ever force mine, unless for some particular reason. Pigeons love to either bathe, or sit under a sprinkler..on their own.


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## sk8er

He doesnt eat rice out of my hand. When I force it down his throat he eats 80% of the time and the rest 20% is still sitting in his beak, even after 2 hours. Do feral pigeons usually behave like this?? Should I get him a cage. temporarily he is housed in a cardbox with an entrance. So he usually puts his head in a dark corner and goes to sleep.


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## bevslape

I understand that you are trying to help the pigeon, but please put yourself in his place Sk8er, he is frightened of you and does not know your intentions with him.I am assuming it can not fly, which is why you have him? It is normal for him not to trust you. Please be patient, speak softly with him, do not make any sudden moves, and remember, be patient. Sometimes it takes months-even a year for one to fully understand and trust you. 

As recommeded earlier, pigeon seed, or the very least, a wild bird seed, which is the closest to the real stuff will do. 



A basic calcium grit, the Petco variety will do ok also. They also sell pigeon -dove mix there. We get some of our supplemental supplies from them. 

Pigeons dip and sip, as we would from a straw, so make sure the water container is deep. Keep all its dishes clean.This is very important.

Thank you for your concern for this pigeon.


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## sk8er

no, he can fly fine but has no tail feather. I wil try to get some sort of bird food from the local grocery store. How should I feed it to him?? Put seeds in water dish or something ?


How long will his tail take to recuperate?


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## pdpbison

Hi sk8er,


The Bird sounds ill, and you would do well either to take it outside, let it go, so it can die in peace without you continueing to traumatiuse it...

Or, get it to someone who has some experience and leave it with them.

If it is 'sleeping' a lot, it is ill.

Too, if a Bird of ANY kind ever flys into your house again, please, just open a "Door" and sort of get out of it's way...or get to where the Bird is between you and the Door, and see if you can just shoo it out...please do not try catching it.

Basically, if you want a dead Pigeon, keep on it like you are.

If you want this Bird to have any chance, get it to someone who has some experience and familiarity, or just turn it loose even.

Please...


And lastly please do NOT try shoveing any more anything down it's throat, and this includes "water" too...stop it please...!

Get the Bird TO someone who does rehab or has the time and interest to help it, and to figure out what KIND of sick it has, and who will know how to treat it.



Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## sk8er

well, I would have. Secondly, since my first post the bird apparently has started to like me. He does not get scared of me. Can sit on my shoulder .... I havent tried feeding it anything yet. .. I will get the food tomorrow. However, that is since my first post. It is no longer violent etc.... Just getting famalirzed with thouse and apprently likes to sit on the heater maybe to get warm air.


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## feralpigeon

Hi sk8er,

It takes about 6 weeks for the tail feathers to grow back provided they are not just broken off. Do you happen to have an extra room that the pij could stay in? Perhaps the bathroom if you bird-proofed it? Maybe for starters I would just offer the seeds and water and give the bird a chance to settle down and just get used to being around you. Talking softly whenever you are around him/her. Make sure the water and seed dish are both untippable, you want at least a couple of inches of water. As mentioned, it can sometimes take a while for a feral w/no previous history w/you to warm up to the idea of being in your house. Seems like if you are only gonna be keeping long enough for the feathers to grow back, then you wouldn't want to get to close to the bird emotionally because then you will be releasing him/her. It would be hard emotionally on you and confusing for the bird thereby lowering it's survival skills.

Maybe it's for the best to keep an attentive distance.

fp


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## Skyeking

sk8er,

Perhaps you can find a "pigeon friendly" rehabber in your area that has the time and knowledge to take care of it. The bird should be examined if it is not well, and that may be a posibility since it was trying to get inside your place, it just doesn't sound like normal behavior.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactA.htm#il

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

Meanwhile, give the bird some dry peas, thawed and drained corn or peas..until you can get a bird seed mix.


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## GimpieLover

ok from the sounds of this i think it is in the pigeons best intrest to be taken to a person who can properely care for him. he is a wild animal and should NOT be befriending people anyhow. that could cause problems when he is released. the wilder he is the better his chances of surviving back in the wild. and im possitive he doesnt want you forcing rice down his throat. the best thing you could do for him untill you find a proper care taker, is just keep him some place quiet and safe with a small dish of fresh water and some wild pigeon seed and some bird grit.


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## sk8er

ok i gave it a wild bird seed mix on an open platter, he tried to eat some of it when I was away but it was all over the place, so guess he did not eat much. I will take him to rehab if I find the time. However, in the mean time I planning on gettin gpigeon food tomorrow. How should I feed it to him.. 


I mean get a big bowl and fil it to the top or what?? He did nto like the shallow platter. So I took two very small bowls, on with water which he drank when I want looking, and other with a grain mix I had at home, which he did not like. So here ar emy questions

1. WHat to feed him which he will instantaneously like
2. How to fill the dish which he can eat from ?


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## Victor

sk8er said:


> ok i gave it a wild bird seed mix on an open platter, he tried to eat some of it when I was away but it was all over the place, so guess he did not eat much. I will take him to rehab if I find the time. However, in the mean time I planning on gettin gpigeon food tomorrow. How should I feed it to him..
> 
> 
> I mean get a big bowl and fil it to the top or what?? He did nto like the shallow platter. So I took two very small bowls, on with water which he drank when I want looking, and other with a grain mix I had at home, which he did not like. So here ar emy questions
> 
> 1. WHat to feed him which he will instantaneously like
> 2. How to fill the dish which he can eat from ?


Hi Sk8er~
Most pigeons are messy eaters especially if given a variey of seed mix to choose from. They will natuarly eat the variety they like the best. It's like when you open up an oreo cookie and eat the filling first! When they get hungry enough they will finish the rest later.

I would give him, oh about 1/4 of a cup serving in the morning, and ration the same amount or less in the late afternoon. Try not to overfeed him, as he may stuff himself like there is no tomorrow now.

Shallow is not too cool, they will definately make a mess and it maymake it more prone to getting waste inside...not good. Water dumped on it maybe?

Get a deep dish. Petco has some nice hanger types, for about 2 bucks a piece, and 4 inches deep. Get 3...one for water, one for grit...very important sk8er for it to digest its food properly...and one for water. As previously mentioned, pigeons dip their beeks inside to drink.

I hope this answers your questions.


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## Camrron

Hello SK8ER,

It is good you have some wild bird seed for your pigeon. It is okay that it is spread all over the place too. It means that your bird is selecting the seeds that he chooses over others so don't force him to do anything if he is eating on his own. Eating and drinking are good signs for sure. Keep looking for a rehabber but in the meantime leave this bird ample food and water at all times for his survival. Birds are just like us in so many ways. They also have their fears, like us, and your bird is probably very afraid as any wild bird would be encountering a human for the first time. Try to be understanding with him. Speak quietly and gently with him and he may start to improve gradually. Don't forget though that he will still want to be out in the wild so don't have your feelings hurt if he doesn't take to you. It isn't personal at all. It is nature the way it should be. 

For your water dish: use a wide dish about an inch or two deep that cannot be tipped over if your bird perches on the edge. For food, I would suggest that if your bird isn't eating properly go to a supermarket and pick up a different bag of wild bird seed. These are very inexpensive (a couple of dollars at most) but might just do the trick in the short term. I hope all turns out well with your pigeon.

Cameron


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## sk8er

hi,

good news. i left him seeds and water and look =s like he ate some. however, *sometimes* when I hold him he puts the upper part of his beak forwar than the lower and right after it crop flutters like he is swallowing something. Human equivalent would be if we force our lips in a beak shape with uper lips sticking out and then swallow saliva. He also cover half his eye with the lower eye lid. It did this last night too and figured he is thirsty anddrank a ton of water, but now he resists water.

Also, this is different from the time he does extensive flights inside the house and is gaspinf for air. In this case his crop flutters again. By crop I mean the lower part of the thrar right where his lower beak ends.


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## pdpbison

sk8er,


This is another one of those threads which make me think of 'Lenny' wanting to keep petting the 'puppy'.

And reliably, in a few days or a week maybe, it will end the same way that did.

What are you trying to do?

From your first descriptions, it is indicated that this Bird is ill...it needs to go to someone who can appropriately diagnose, treat and rehab it. It is also further injured, traumatised and manhandled by your catching it, pulling it's Tail out, and whatever else you have done and not detailed or even knew you had done, and your insisting to keep it when you claim it can fly well also begs the point of your mock sincerity even more.

You force feed it by shoveing uncoioked rice down it's throat on the first day when you claim it had been eating outdoors on it's own the day before.

Is this yet another grotesque of some Munchausen's syndrome by proxy tableau? Or? something worse even?

Every succinct or germain mention made so far by anyone to you, intended to recommend your attentions be ABOUT the well being of the Bird, you evade and sveltly come back with some cloying creep-show 'good news' with more bad news wrapped in it.

You have no name and no loaction...or none you care to mention.


Get the Bird, if there even IS a "Bird", to someone who is familiar with what to do and how to do it and get off of milking this little drama of yours at the Bird's expense and ours.

And overall, I feel very sorry that Bird ever got near enough for you to do this to it and to keep milking the protracted cruelty of it like this. If there even IS a actual 'Bird'.

That or you are some Troll, just jerking us around...but, either way, you and your whole schpiel, smell a whole bunch bad to me.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sk8er

Phil,
I have been meaning to reply to you since your first post. What you need to think about how insensitive you can be to another human being on this forum just shows that your a self centered retard who befriends animals because you cannot afford any other companionship fron your meager subsitenance. Your age / postings reflects the facct that you have recently gone through a traumitizing mid-life crises and want to get the 1 thing (animal friendship) right before God ends your pathetic, futile and vainful existence. So, if it gives you comfort that your minimum wage job and birds will bring new meaning to your life .... well I guess you have a lot more growing up to do.

Most liklely, the only reason the bird sticks around is because you stole a child away from it mother, you degenerate bastard and raised it as your own, mistaking it to think you are a ****ing mother and hence it is dependent on you. So stfu and stop replying to this post. So long jackass


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## Victor

sk8er~ please check your private message at pigeon talk.


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## Skyeking

sk8er said:


> hi,
> 
> good news. i left him seeds and water and look =s like he ate some. however, *sometimes* when I hold him he puts the upper part of his beak forwar than the lower and right after it crop flutters like he is swallowing something. Human equivalent would be if we force our lips in a beak shape with uper lips sticking out and then swallow saliva. He also cover half his eye with the lower eye lid. It did this last night too and figured he is thirsty anddrank a ton of water, but now he resists water.
> 
> Also, this is different from the time he does extensive flights inside the house and is gaspinf for air.



Pigeons will noticeable have a full appearance under theyr'e beak that looks uncomfortable, right after they load up on food. Ohter then that he should eat about a tablespon at a sitting, if not and is struggling to get it down, This bird may have some blockage or something in his crop, and some respiratory problem.

Can you look down his throat and see if there is anything unusual there, like yellow cheezy looking stuff? That would be canker, the inside should be pink and no obstructions. It may be wise now to bring him to a rehabber where he can be checked out thoroughly and start treatment for whatever is ailing him.


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## sk8er

Thanks guys. Also, he only likes dark seeds. And last night, I gigured what it means. He is sleepy. And how do I know it... because he slept right on my chest with his beak open a little for breathing.

However, I will check his throat again.


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## Skyeking

sk8er said:


> Thanks guys. Also, he only likes dark seeds. And last night, I gigured what it means. He is sleepy. And how do I know it... because he slept right on my chest with his beak open a little for breathing.
> However, I will check his throat again.


Hi sk8er,

If he is sleeping on your chest it may be that he si trying to maitani his warmth, which is crucial in a sick bird. Do you have a heating pad,? You can set it on low and put a towel between him and the heating pad. You can isolate the bird in a quite draft free area in a box or other type bed, where he will not be disturbed.

A pigeon should not be open beak breathing unless he has just done a 20 mile flight, or he has a compromised immune system either respiratory or other, please do check inside the beak. Drinking a lot, means there is something going on in the gut, may be coccidiosis, or another common pigeon ailment. What does the poop look like?

Now, I'm going to give you a list of some simple things you can do to aid in the healing & build his immune system, until he goes to a rehabber and gets a diagnosis.Can you get him on some human grade probiotics (Solaray- in the refrigerator section of health food store), an 1/8th of a capsule (open cap, or buy powder form) in the water bowl, mixed well, or down the throat. Also, some Apple cider Vinegar, from same place. You can add 1 tablespoon per gallon water and have him drink that for now. This will also aid with diseases such as coccidiosis and canker.

You should also get some *soft gel Garlic Capsule (Now Brand, one a day) to use as an antiinfectant and will help purify the blood, a drop of colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver) down the throat for infections. These things can be purchased at any health food store. *Hold the beak open gently with thumb and forefinger, put capsule, behind tongue, push it gently back down the throat, and close beak. Rub downward under the beak a few times.

Now, please check down the throat and see if their is any blockage, yellow cheezy stuff. Listen to the breathing and see if it is noisy, rattling. Is there any discharge from the nostrils or eyes?


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## feralpigeon

Hi sk8er,

Just adding a bit to Treesa's last post. If you are trying to give the bird some meds/supplements by gently holding the beak open and gently pushing towards the back of throat for the pij to swallow, you can do the 'bird burrito' . Which is to say, wrap the pij in a hand towel or dish towel folded in a linear mode, so that the wings are stabilized and can't flap around. Not too tightly, only enough to achieve your goal. You can then place the bird in your lap and proceed. It makes looking down the throat or giving a garlic capsule that much easier and will help you to do so without the aid of a second pair of hands. You will see two 'holes' when you look in the throat. The one in the front is to the lungs/air sacs and great care should be taken not to allow anything to go down there. It is the opening in the far back that you want to introduce meds/supplements into, and a little push w/your finger to the rear of the mouth will do the trick.

I'm glad to hear that the pigeon is getting more acclimated in your home. I would be cautious about the heater thing if it can get hotter than you personally would want your hand to be resting on. Some folks get dog carriers/cages from Petco or the like to serve as a tempory shelter. The best size being one in which the pij can out stretch its wings w/out touching the sides. They also have untippable bowls there for food and water. I've found the ceramic ones to be less tippable than the plastic ones. As Treesa mentioned, a heating pad on low for the pij would be a good idea. You can check the resources section of this site for lots of information on the care of pigeons specifically for sick pigeons and for nutrition in general.

Also, when you look into the mouth, what overall coloring do you see? If no cheesy growths as Treesa mentioned, what is the coloring of the tissue? Is it pink, red, streaky coloration? This would be good to know in addition to the appearance of the poops.

We still don't know your whereabouts to see if there is someone in your area who could help to evaluate your pij, or if needed to help with some meds. If you don't mind telling us the general area, this might be helpful to you and the pij. 

Best,

fp


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## Pikachu23739

sk8er said:


> Hi,
> I caught a wild pigeon and it tried to get away all its tail feathers except 2 came out. I was very sad and decided to keep it home. I left the entire house to himself and a lot of rice but it did not eat anything for 8 hours. When I came back I had the hand feed him the rice and force it down and he finally ate 1 at a time. Now it built it a small cardboard box in which it can get a dark spot to sleep in. However, I have feel very guilty and want to do whatever I can to get its tail and more feathers back. It still struggles and tries to get away from me, although less so, after I fed it some rice.


*i hope that pigeon get better sorry to here*


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## Maggie-NC

You should be ashamed of yourself. This is another member's young child who is learning to care for pigeons. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with Phil's posting to you but now I'm not. 

I am not a moderator but I hope one comes on soon to handle this because your comments are totally uncalled for.


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## Jiggs

I would have to agree with that. Could a moderator please step in?

Mr Skater

All anyone is trying to do is help the bird which is why the nice replies, pity you are you though. Sad.


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## Pidgey

sk8er,

Pikachu23739 is a very young person and is only expressing concern for the pigeon with no ill feelings involved. There isn't any malice there so you might consider giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Pidgey


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## John_D

Abusive language is not tolerated on this forum.

Kindly shape up or ship out.

John


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## dnrslucky1

Wow! sk8er, that was very uncalled for and terribly rude!


Pikachu23739, That is the first time I have ever seen such an insensitive person on Pigeon Talk! I am very sorry, as I am sure all of our members here are also!

Denise and Squidget


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## Skyeking

Pikachu23739 said:


> *i hope that pigeon get better sorry to here*



*Here is the exact message" I hope that pigeon gets better, sorry to hear about this."*


That is how I read it, no ill intentions meant at all.


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## Victor

*Shame on you!*

It saddens me on one hand and aggrevates me on the other that comments of negative inapproppriate nature are being expressed here. 

I saw s8ter's comment before it was deleted. This is something I would expect on another "pet" forum which will remain nameless,or a music site, but not here on pigeons.com.

The comments made earlier toward Phil were not necessary.Perhapes if Mr.Skater was displeased with Phils comments, he could have filed a formal complaint.

I sent Mr.Skater a message urging him to delete his rude comments and suggested alternative means, but he obviously choose to ignore it, or not fully read it. I try not to be critical, but I can see why Phil was getting frustrated, because at our household, we WERE!

There were many good sound comments advising him to solutions and guidence, which leads me to believe that he was *not* reading fully the suggestions given to him. 

S8ter, you came here for help, and oviously concerned about the pigeon trapped and ulimately hurt in your house.We were trying to guide you. This is not a music forum where people speak like how ever they want.

I am not a moderator, but am sure I speak for most members here:

*You are welcome here but please follow the rules of membership*
*An apology to the members would be nice.*


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## Pigeonpal2002

Dear members, 

I'm only briefly stepping in here and hoping that we can learn a lesson from the exchange of dialogue we've seen. 

First off, Sk8er...we do not tolerate foul language here in this forum or disrespect to our members under any circumstances. We strive to demonstrate kindness, support and understanding to all members in an environment where we all learn and respect one another. We do NOT critisize or insult others over the way they write, or word things in communication. I apolgize to you myself if you are sincere and over the way you've been dealt with by another here to begin with. Please however, take the good advice you've been given mostly and take this bird to a person who can help it properly...it really does need someone who can see to it's needs.

After saying this to Sk8er, Phil I'm going to tell you one last time to keep your thoughts in check and refrain from posting your suspicious, derogatory comments to those whom you feel are insincere or dubious. If you don't believe someone or you feel that they are lying to us, then message one of the moderators and let us know in private, do NOT make this a public display of "who's right". I'm tired of your presumptions and "better than us" attitude. You try to come off as the forum clarvoyant and it's just not beneficial or practical. I wasn't going to post this publicly because believe it or not, I do like you very much, you've really impressed me overall but you need to learn some better etiquette.

Now, let's drop all of this and move on!


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## re lee

I looked over the different posts on this subject. First looks to ma as the person tried to catch the bird the tail feathers were pulled. It was not a planned event it happened. Main thing was the person came looking for help on how to manage and what to expect of this pigeon. So good entents were showed. Tail feathers grow back. no real harm to the bird. Phil over responded as the other as well. tempers get the best of you if you over react. Both sides need to settle some. But reading showed negitve views for what was tried out of good intentions. I raised fantails. And I pulled tails on most all my birds so they would moult in right and in time to show the birds with out that they are not show ready sometimes. Its not mean to the birds. And I pulled tails over a three day period not to cause much pain. that way. This person did it by total accident. Back to the bird. I do not think rice is good for the bird as irt can swell in the cropp if it eats to much. But sounds like you are getting different grains now. As for the tail It will hamper it just a little in flying but it should be able to fly wellenough to make it on its own. Happens in the wild every day Birds lose the tail for one reason or another. You can keep it as its been said it takes about 6 weeks to grow in fully. You may decide to keep it forever as a pet bird. Its safer with you then in the wild as long as you learn proper care. Do what you can. and decide from there. Glad you took the time to find this site and tried to learn and take crare of the bird. Let what others say slide As sometimes thing are best left unsaid. Saves hurt feelings .


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## Camrron

A post is deleted? I thought that I was missing something. SK8ER, how is your bird progressing? Can you give us an update?

Cameron


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## feralpigeon

Hi sk8er,

Thanks Brad and Robert, yes, it would be great to get back on track. We are interested in the pigeon you are caring for sk8er and would love to get an update from you on how things are coming along. Hope the pij is doing well....

fp


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## sk8er

*Thanks guys*

I cant mention how much I appreciate r_lees reply along with others as well. First about the bird and then about Phil. 

1. I give it a fistful of wild bird seed and water in its nest. He seems to eat about 50% of the seeds in 24 hours. Is the quantity a lot ?

2. He seems to be drinking but not as much. He spills a lot but at the end of the day manages to drink. Something makes me think he would eat a lot more when he was in the wild, but nonetheless he does eat.

3. Third thing which worries me is that his poo when he came in last week was greenish with a black tinge and thats the colour of poo I see on the street as weel. However, the bird seeds are yellow and now his poo is
a. yellow in color
b. more of a semi-solid
c. he pisses a lot of water when he poos

Need some help here.

4. Now he tends to bite me when I go into his cage, attack me with his wings only when I get close to him, not when I pouring seeds or giving water. He also runs from me when he is not comfortable. But when I catch him, he sits on my hands, shoulders and chest or wherever I make him sit on my body. After a while he will fly waway around the house, trying to get back into his bird house. Overall, he is more calm around me as compared to when he came in as a wild bird.

5. I also thought he was feeling lonely so I got another wild bird in perfectly good health to keep him company but they always fought in their bird house. So I let that other bird go after 48 hours. One thing I did notice was that the wild bird (actually 1 got like 3, but let them all go) had a lot more feathers on them. I concluded saying he lost his entire tail last week and plus the fact it was very cold out there and hence they had more feathers.


Now about Phil. My post was an appropriate reply to him because he showed extreme hostility in 2 posts. I ignored the first one, but the second was more vile than the first and I wanted to put him in his place. I still stand by that post. If he has emotions he cant suppress, he needs to work on that. Thats all I will say for right now. Usually, after such hostility comes ass kicking and I dont even wanna go there. Besides, I have been happy with most replies. Suggestions are welcome. I havent had the time to find a rehab but I will get myself to get some pigeon specific food if yellow poo turns out to be a problem.


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## Camrron

Dear Sk8er,

Please don't capture any more wild birds for the company of the one you have. You may not know it but pigeons mate for life and you will only be taking away someone else's partner. I am glad to hear your pigeon is acting out when he is around a person. This is a sign he may be regaining strength and being territorial about his space. Don't worry about that. I was very concerned when you wrote that he was sitting "open mouthed" and panting. That is not a good sign normally. Give your pigeon space and time to heal and get used to his surroundings. If he tries to fly back to his "house" just let him be. That is his comfort zone so to speak. A place where he feels safe so try not to intrude on it no matter how much you may want to. I have hopes that you will be a good pigeon person along with the help of others on this site. About the poops,...the color that goes in is not necessarily the color that will come out. About Phil, we all want positive comments so it is best to let that one go for now. The best interests of your pigeon are at the heart of most of the people on this site. Let's just focus on that and let Phil be. OK.

Cameron


----------



## sk8er

Ok, so what about the the open mouthed thing. When did I mention it ?

Only sometimes after play (getting very few by the day and its not always after play either) he does the thing. But usually he is calm. Also his heartbeat after a little 3 minute play is 140beats/minute. 

At night when I play with him he yawns or closes his eyes and I put him in his nest and he sleeps. 

Regarding the 3 I had caught, I let two out within the hour. Pigeon A went ASAP, because he was the biggest and he was fighting everyone in the nest. Pigeon B was the biggest after A and got his beak and iside of the mouth a little injured (very small blood) after 2 hours from all the fighting and he was gone too. I did apply some human anti-inflammatory and guess he should be fine too. Pigeon A sat on the roof NOT with is flock for a while and then he went somewhere ( I guess with the flock). B sat on the roof again NOT with a flock and was seen courting a female and chasing her on the roof with the head bowing action about 45 minutes after released. C was relased 48 hours aftwerwards and immediately joined the flock and started eating. D was my pigeon and is still here. Howwver, I have not seen of the caughtees come to the house recently. I think they know they got caught here and hence wanan avoid the place. The rest of the flock is fine.

Lastly, do I need to worry about its poo and what more can I do to make its life better? Should I still get somepigeon food ?


----------



## Skyeking

Hi sk8er,

It is always best to keep a pigeon in isolation away from any others, just in case of disease. I have one with me that I'm isolating for at least three weeks from my pigeons, it is a very important rule. Pigeons will actually try to act like they are feeling well, as a natural built in defense they have, when actually they may be harboring some disease.

I think you should have a fecal done, as from your description the bird may have coccidiosis or another bacteria. The bacteria seems to multiply in alot of pigeons whenever they are stressed and have other health issues. Sometimes, a good dose of human grade probiotics for a couple of days will do the trick, as the good bacteria will overtake the bad bacteria, that the probiotics will provide.

Please check my earlier post for some good prevention, however, I think at this point you should seek out a rehabber or avian vet that are "pigeon friendly". I know you are trying to do what is best for the bird, but sometimes that means finding help.


----------



## sk8er

what post has the dose of medicines mmentoned ?


----------



## Skyeking

Trees Gray said:


> Hi sk8er,
> 
> If he is sleeping on your chest it may be that he si trying to maitani his warmth, which is crucial in a sick bird. Do you have a heating pad,? You can set it on low and put a towel between him and the heating pad. You can isolate the bird in a quite draft free area in a box or other type bed, where he will not be disturbed.
> 
> A pigeon should not be open beak breathing unless he has just done a 20 mile flight, or he has a compromised immune system either respiratory or other, please do check inside the beak. Drinking a lot, means there is something going on in the gut, may be coccidiosis, or another common pigeon ailment. What does the poop look like?
> 
> Now, I'm going to give you a list of some simple things you can do to aid in the healing & build his immune system, until he goes to a rehabber and gets a diagnosis.Can you get him on some human grade probiotics (Solaray- in the refrigerator section of health food store), an 1/8th of a capsule (open cap, or buy powder form) in the water bowl, mixed well, or down the throat. Also, some Apple cider Vinegar, from same place. You can add 1 tablespoon per gallon water and have him drink that for now. This will also aid with diseases such as coccidiosis and canker.
> 
> You should also get some *soft gel Garlic Capsule (Now Brand, one a day) to use as an antiinfectant and will help purify the blood, a drop of colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver) down the throat for infections. These things can be purchased at any health food store. *Hold the beak open gently with thumb and forefinger, put capsule, behind tongue, push it gently back down the throat, and close beak. Rub downward under the beak a few times.
> 
> Now, please check down the throat and see if their is any blockage, yellow cheezy stuff. Listen to the breathing and see if it is noisy, rattling. Is there any discharge from the nostrils or eyes?



*Here is my post, these are just general preventive measures I use for my pigeons, that they have also benefited from in treating coccidiosis as well as wattery and yellow poop. It is not a guarantee, but it definitely promotes good immune system response. I cannot suggest any medications without knowing what the bird has, as there are specific medications that target specific diseases. *


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## sk8er

I did check him for yellow stuff down the throat and he is fine? Do you still think he is sick from the poo color ? I shall get that stuff tonight ?
No discharge and also breathing nornmal. 140beats/min after flying around a little for 1-2 minutes.


----------



## Skyeking

Thank you for doing what is best for this bird. The poop does sound suspicious, but can't tell you exactly what it is without a fecal. If you can locate a rehabber at this point it would be best, but please do get this pigeon on these things for now.

Please update us on how the bird is, and be sure to ask if you have any questions regarding using any of the products.


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## Whitefeather

sk8er said:


> * *Now he tends to bite me when I go into his cage, attack me with his wings only when I get close to him*, not when I pouring seeds or giving water. *He also runs from me when he is not comfortable.*
> 
> ** *But when I catch him, he sits on my hands, shoulders and chest or wherever I make him sit on my body. After a while he will fly waway around the house, trying to get back into his bird house*. Overall, he is more calm around me as compared to when he came in as a wild bird.
> 
> *** *I also thought he was feeling lonely so I got another wild bird in perfectly good health to keep him company* but they always fought in their bird house. So I let that other bird go after 48 hours. One thing I did notice was that the wild bird (actually 1 got like 3, but let them all go) had a lot more feathers on them. I concluded saying he lost his entire tail last week and plus the fact it was very cold out there and hence they had more feathers.


Hello Sk8er,
Thank you for posting an update. 

* Attempting to bite, wing slap & trying to escape from a human are all normal 'defense' moves of a wild pigeon, which is exactly what you have. The fact your patient is well enough to do these things is a very good sign.  
I would suggest *not* trying to befriend him. Tend to his needs, otherwise leave him be. This way he will not be dependant upon a human when he is ready for release.

** When he has finished 'exercising' place him back in his cage. Don't make him sit on your shoulder, hand, head, etc. He is trying to get back to his cage for a reason. Allow him to rest & regain his strength.

*** It's quite possible he/she has a mate waiting. He/she may also *seem* lonely because it still isn't feeling up to par just yet.

As has been suggested, *please* don't catch anymore ferals. Generally, they do have a mate & possibly babies in a nest.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Sk8er, 

Can you please let us know where you are located and the entire circumstances of how you came to have this bird...where you found it, how old do you think it is, etc. It's really important that you help us to help you and it's really in the best interest of this pigeon if you can get it to someone who can look after it properly.

Will you answer these questions and try to help this bird the way it needs right now?...please?


----------



## Camrron

My mistake SK8ER. your exact quote was:

"He is sleepy. And how do I know it... because he slept right on my chest with his beak open a little for breathing"

Actually. there was no panting mentioned. I really should have re-read your previous posts first before posting my own. Still, open mouth/beak breathing is often a sign of stress or illness. This is what I was referring to when I posted you yesterday. 

Cameron


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## Pidgey

sk8er,

Usually, the "yellow poo" means that the urates are yellow. That's reduced-down urine. Being yellow instead of white can be a sign of several things. Treesa mentioned coccidiosis and that's one that I've seen seem to cause that. That is to say that some birds that had your bird's symptoms have recovered when I've treated them for coccidiosis. That's one thing that can be found in a fecal float which most vets can do, regardless of whether they're avian or not. You can usually get a float done for coccidia and worms without an office visit. Fairly often they'll call you with the results. It's an easy test that you can do yourself with a microscope and some simple household items.

Another possibility for that symptom is trichomoniasis which may or may not manifest as cheesy buttons in the mouth. It can kill and often does with juveniles. It's also found with a microscope but with different techniques but it's not a good idea to use the test for proof positive because it can happen in places that you can't get to with a swab. It's a flagellating protozoa.

The other possibility is liver disease. That doesn't identify the pathogen because several can do it. It's hard to say and it usually takes meds and tests and somebody who's familiar like a vet or good rehabber.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

Hey sk8er,

Not asking for your social security number, driver's license and phone number....
but if you can give your general whereabouts, it might be possible between the listings in different search engines/lists, and individual member's experiences, to give you the name of a pigeon friendly avian vet or rehabber that could help to figure out what's going on with some of the atypical behavior that's going on w/your pij guest. There may also be members close by that can mail you some meds to help you out, this is not an invasive request, rather, an attempt to help the pij currently in your care. Please consider letting us know the general whereabouts of where you live  . Sounds like you were feeding this flock or individual pigeons before the one w/out the tail flew in to your house/apt., so I'm thinking you care about their health. Why not help us help you??

fp


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## sk8er

let me clarify something here:

1. you are not getting any of my info

2. the piss was white and the poo was yellow until I gave him human antibiotic which you guys had hyped me on

3. now the piss is yellow but the poo has turned back to green what it used to be


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## Whitefeather

sk8er said:


> *let me clarify something here*:
> 
> 1. *you are not getting any of my info*
> 2. the piss was white and the poo was yellow until I gave him human antibiotic which you guys had hyped me on
> 3. now the piss is yellow but the poo has turned back to green what it used to be


Hello Sk8er,
First of all, I would appreciate it if you would please use the term '*urine*' when describing the droppings.

Secondly, your location was asked only to see if another member, rehabber, avian vet, etc., was in your area who could possibly assist you with this bird.

With the exception of a couple posts, members here have bent over backwards to help you. I think you could at least be a bit more cooperative.

Cindy


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## Pidgey

The reason being that we have seen way too many sick pigeons end up dying on here because of the difficulty of describing things in enough detail for even the best vet on earth to figure it out. It's just incredibly complicated. It's bad enough sometimes with a human trying to describe his internal symptoms to a regular doctor and this is just worse.

What we feel is most likely is that this bird has some things wrong due to behavior that's not typical as well as some of the other things that you've mentioned. And you can take the bird to an avian vet and maintain your privacy, that's fine. Or, you could PM or email TAWhatley to privately put you in touch with a rehabber in your city or area.

Or, you can go to:

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

and see if anyone on that list is near you and contact them yourself. If there's one within a couple of hours of you, they may be able to link you up with someone closer. You don't even need to mention that this thread exists. Keep all the privacy you want but see if you can get help for the bird.

By the way, how much antibiotic did you give him in a dose? They're so much smaller than us that it's tricky to divide a human pill or capsule up to keep from giving them so much that it destroys their livers, kidneys or other organs.

Pidgey


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## sk8er

I didnt mean any ill will towards people on this forums. Apologies for sounding that way. 

When it came into my house: green poo + clear urine
Then one day: yellow semi liquid poo + white urine
After dose (last 18 hours): Back to green poo + yellow urine sometimes. Otherwise urine is clear too.

Dose 1/3 of a capsule (at max) in the last 24 hours. Humans would take 3 capsules in 24 hours.


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## kittypaws

*Can you...*

not see if there is a sympathetic avian vet or rehabber near you that can help .

I found my local wildlife place by using the internet. If you don't want to say where you are can you try the above but check their policies on pigeons first to ensure he gets the professional help that he may need.

I'm amazed that you can catch healthy pigeons? I have trouble catching sick or injured ones. But I'm not condoning catching healthy pigeons - your pigeon sounds as though he needs to be on his own and if he has an infection he could pass onto a healthy one and that in turn onto the whole flock. Not a good scenario. 

Regards

Tania


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## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> I didnt mean any ill will towards people on this forums. Apologies for sounding that way.
> 
> When it came into my house: green poo + clear urine
> Then one day: yellow semi liquid poo + white urine
> After dose (last 18 hours): Back to green poo + yellow urine sometimes. Otherwise urine is clear too.
> 
> *Dose 1/3 of a capsule (at max) in the last 24 hours. Humans would take 3 capsules in 24 hours.*




Hi sk8er, you didn't mention what anti-biotic you gave the pijie and what the strength of the capsule is. This is an important piece of info in terms of the bird's care. Can you furnish us w/that info please?

fp


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## sk8er

baby antibiotic \ i will try to look up the brand


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## Camrron

Hi SK8Er,

I can understand your reluctance to give out any information on a public forum. It is afterall available to people all over the world. You are on an amazing site though and the moderators here are much respected by all of us. Try to have some trust. You do sound as though you care for your bird and you have accepted many of the suggestions given. I would encourage you to privately E-Mail one of the moderators about your particular circumstances *and that will not be public *to everyone. You will find that you will be treated with respect and trust. Good luck with your bird. We all hope for the best and are encouraged that you sought out this site. Pigeons.com is a special place for sure and there are many friends to be had here. 

Cameron


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## kittypaws

*Update*

Hey sk8er,

How is the pigeon doing since your last post?

Tania


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## Jiggs

I am not the one to judge *BUT!* I have been reading this post/posts, which I always do, and/as another member from exactly half way around the globe. I do believe Skater is keeping a thread going which does not help his so called pij.

skater has one thread happening which turned into 5 pages where as help was asked for in another thread and has 3 replies.

there are questions to ask, pm's not answered, always defensive, gives comments just when it would get an answer,

Am I the next victim? not to worry, been robbed twice and hi-jacked once.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Jiggs and All, 

All we can do is offer our support and advice to Sk8er in hopes that he will head it...after that, it's out of our hands. We can't force anyone to do anything and we have to treat all situations as if they are real for the sake of the pigeons. We also have to remember that there are a lot of younger people who come to the site who are inexperienced with many things, and this includes how to "act" in a forum.

If all else fails and a member suspects that there is something "amiss" with any particular situation, "we" are not obligated to offer help or advice and can stay out of the thread altogether. If the person is insincere, they will stop posting when we stop offering replies.


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## Camrron

I also want to add that there are situations where we can extend trust to a person who may not communicate in ways that are framed in our own language or personal style. Also, the carrot is better than the stick: and by that I mean that encouragement achieves more results than punishment. It can also lead to clues to help you determine a persons sincerity more quickly once you have had a chance to read the responses that follow. 

I do believe that SK8ER was sincere in his original post and was seeking help. While he may not have been doing the right things for his pigeon at the time is not the point. The opportunity was presented to anyone to assist him in learning about and caring for his bird and that is what is most important. I am glad no one attacked me when I first came onto this site. I really would have found that to have been very discouraging and disheartening because I was doing all the wrong things too. I just didn't know it at the time. A few months has made a world of difference though and with all the kind support I received from so many I now have a beautiful, fat, well fed and happy pigeon.

And that makes me very happy indeed!

Cameron


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## Pidgey

Cameron,

Fat? How fat? Haven't we scolded you about spoiling pigeons, yet? You shouldn't overfeed them or BAD THINGS HAPPEN!!! NEVER feed a Mogwai after midnight!

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

Camrron said:


> I also want to add that there are situations where we can extend trust to a person who may not communicate in ways that are framed in our own language or personal style. Also, the carrot is better than the stick: and by that I mean that encouragement achieves more results than punishment. It can also lead to clues to help you determine a persons sincerity more quickly once you have had a chance to read the responses that follow.
> 
> I do believe that SK8ER was sincere in his original post and was seeking help. While he may not have been doing the right things for his pigeon at the time is not the point. The opportunity was presented to anyone to assist him in learning about and caring for his bird and that is what is most important. I am glad no one attacked me when I first came onto this site. I really would have found that to have been very discouraging and disheartening because I was doing all the wrong things too. I just didn't know it at the time. A few months has made a world of difference though and with all the kind support I received from so many I now have a beautiful, fat, well fed and happy pigeon.
> 
> And that makes me very happy indeed!
> 
> Cameron


AMEN! And I think you said it all in a nutshell, Cameron! Many thanks!


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## Camrron

Fat! Fat! Very Fat for a baby. I sure have been told me about spoiling pigeons, Pidgey. Don't start me laughing! What the heck is a Mogwai anyway? Is that from a movie I never saw?

(PS: Thanks Mr Squeaks and you are very welcome)

Cameron


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## Pidgey

GREMLINS, 1984. If you feed your pigeon too much after midnight, the same thing happens.

Actually, there is a problem that can arise if they get too fat--it's called "hepatic lipidosis" but I rather doubt that your (obviously) spoiled baby is in danger yet.

Pidgey


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## alaska

I'm trying to think of what a Mogwai Pigeon would look like...LOL
Hey...come to think of it I think I have one...my Pigeon Ash.
He runs around flapping his wings and cooing telling of anyone...including me if I get too close to him...too many post midnight safflower treats...LOL
Regards
Alaska


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## Camrron

A Mogwai pigeon? Yikes! So thats what safflower does to birds! I don't have any yet but maybe I'l stay away. I like a good nights sleep for sure.

So,...Gremlins (1984). Thanks Pidgey, I'll rent a copy and get back to you on that. Seriously though, Buddy isn't overly fat, no danger yet, but the vet did say he was very well fed. Perhaps I will cut back on the peanuts though and not buy any of that hemp seed I keep reading so much about. One addiction has got to be enough! 

Cameron


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## mr squeaks

mmmm, I think I may have to cut back on the safflower seeds! I swear that Mr. Squeaks looks more plump. The hemp didn't cause any weight gain that I could see - just suppose to give energy...uh huh and according to Squeaks: "yes, hemp for energy to "run" off those addicting safflowers!"


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## feralpigeon

Gosh, Mr. Squeaks, I read that hemp was supposed to increase their sex drive....just can't believe what you read anymore.

fp


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## mr squeaks

feralpigeon said:


> Gosh, Mr. Squeaks, I read that hemp was supposed to increase their sex drive....just can't believe what you read anymore.
> 
> fp


So THAT'S why Squeaks is running around so much? Looking for sex? Poor guy...


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## sk8er

sorry for not replying back but had been extremely busy. Now about the pigeon:

1. Doing extremely well. NO symtons of sickness. Likes rice compared to wild bird seed. The only thing it likes over rice is some big grain in the wild bird seed feed. Eats nicely. Drinks water. Flies around to house and thank god the poo color is green and he is fine. It likes to stay in its house so sometimes I force it out (like once in a doay) and chase it around the house so it actually gets some flight time.

ANd BTW around 5 days agao I can see its tail grow. As soon as the tail is done then I can release it back. Thanks for the support.

Now Phil, I didnt have time to finsh your post because I do have an above minimum wage job which unfortunately requires a little more hardwork and commitment than yours. Anyhoo, let me put it nicely to you pal, dont need your help. Dont post here to piss me off because if the bird is the focues of your attention, then anything you post in its welfare will not get to it because I wont do do it. 

I do think I did take good care of the bird and do implement sugesstions from everyone else EXCEPT Phil, ofcourse. Have a great day Phil. 
Everyone else, thanks for suggestions and concerns. The bird is doing well - eat swell, sleeps well and flies around the house well.


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## mr squeaks

Thanks, Sk8tr, for letting us know your bird is doing so well! That is the BEST news to hear! 

I do hope all will go as planned and I wish both you and your bird the best!


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## Victor

Thanks for the up-date.Many of us have been concerned about you and pigeon. Glad to hear tail feathers growing back. Oh, don't forget the grit to help him digest his food.


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## Camrron

Glad to hear that SK8ER. What are you feeding him now? Any changes?

Cameron.


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## joefi2

Green Poo Sound,s Like Resporty Problems As For The Rice It Will Make Him Swell Up Not Good But It,s Your Bird And Sound,s Like Your Doing Fine And If It Is Like Most Single Bird,s You Will Get Attach And You Will Keep It They Can Make A Good Pet..


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## sk8er

regarding the green poo. It always pooed green. All its friends outside poo green. Birds I have seen 20 miles away, poo green. Its not exactly green. Some of it is green. some of it white and the rest of it is black. I will get the calcium grit. But I am giving it better food and heated house than the wild.


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## [email protected]

hmm, kind of a sad post, but im glad the pigeon is feeling better. wondering why you feel the need to chase him around for exercise, since given enough time, they will fly around on their own (mine is in constant motion, getting into everything these days). it just seems to me that being chased around is causing more stress, whether he shows signs of that stress or not. i hope he continues to do well regardless, and you can release him to his flock soon.


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## Whitefeather

Many thanks for the update Sk8er. Much appreciated.
It sounds like your little patient/new found friend is doing well. 

Just a couple suggestions:
* Please offer the pij seeds, perhaps a few thawed peas even. A rice diet really isn't good for them. Just like kids, pigeons need to be given the proper food, even though *they* don't think so.  

* Please don't chase him about the house for exercise. They will fly when the mood hits them. 

All in all, it sounds like he will be ready for release soon. 

Please post an update when time permits.  

Cindy


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## feralpigeon

Hi Sk8er,

Thanks for checking in and giving us all an udate. Things do sound like they are going well for you and the pij, and that is good news to hear that the tail is doing well. They do tend to have their own natural rythym or pace when out and about exploring, so if you wanted to ensure that the bird doesn't just return to its cage so it will get more excersize, you can close the door on the cage for an hour or so to ensure that it does stay out and get some.

Again, sorry things got off to the wrong start when you posted for help.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Sk8er, 

I'm very happy to hear that the pigeon is doing well in your care and that it's tail is regrowing nicely. Keep doing what you're doing and follow the advice you've been given. In another few weeks, this pigeon should be fit for release and sent back to the wild where it belongs Perhaps in the future, you can get a semi tame pigeon for a house pet, there are lots that need homes and that can't/shouldn't be in the wild

Again, I'm going to have to mention to you to keep your remarks about Phil to yourself. This isn't personal with you and me or with Phil and myself, this is only to show respect. Let's not keep this ball rolling on a negative slant but let's focuss on this pigeon and getting it ready for release. I will say this about Phil to you....he really does mean well, he genuinely cares and he knows his stuff so please, let's just get past the bickering and quips. "We" will never all get along but it's important to show respect and/or ignore comments at times...this is just part of life 

Thanks, 



sk8er said:


> Now Phil, I didnt have time to finsh your post because I do have an above minimum wage job which unfortunately requires a little more hardwork and commitment than yours. Anyhoo, let me put it nicely to you pal, dont need your help. Dont post here to piss me off because if the bird is the focues of your attention, then anything you post in its welfare will not get to it because I wont do do it.


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## Jiggs

Yes well, is the bird let go yet??


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## sk8er

Again, I skimmed through your posts. Thanks. Will get some pigeon food from the pet store for him. He is not ready for release, although soon he will be.


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## Feather

I am new to this forum, and still learning how to care for my pigeons. My regular job is an Image Consultant for brides to be. I work closely with wedding planners, different churches, (Missions), and hotels. On numerous occasions, one of the stipulations after the ceremony has been; not to throw rice. The reason... I was told...is that it is fatal to the pigeons, who add to the romantic setting of the location. 

Feather


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## Jiggs

I would not say rice is fatal but it is not the best to feed most birds with. Please stay away from rice as there are many alternatives and much better for birds.

I do hope skater makes it to the local feed shop and does get bird seed.


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## feralpigeon

You know folks, I've heard the debate on rice for pigeons, and I once asked one of our moderators--Smith Family Lofts about that, as they do feed their pigeons a very upscale rice that they special order for them. Also, in the pigeon mix that I buy locally for the pigeons, they do include rice in some of the formulas. So, I don't know where it came from that it is bad for them, or if this perspective is coming from a place of concern that it is the only grain being fed the pigeon. Just don't know what to say, but don't think it is a slam dunk that rice--is bad--for pigeons. I do think that a mix of seeds, that provides the essential ammino acids and proteins needed for the diet is what is important.

fp


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## sk8er

and I forgot to mention as soon as I came home and opened the door. Heard some big noise in its nest. I stood at the door and listened without entering and it was I think playing outside, heard me open the door and tried to shoot back into its nest.


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## feralpigeon

Hi Sk8er,

Do you happen to know one way or not if this pij is a male or female?

fp


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## sk8er

Female I think because it poops and pees at the same time approximately from the same place. What is another way to find out ? It is so darn cute though. I am so sold on its little movements. How it strcthces it s neck to look around, makes signals with its mouth, the way it walks and explores everything. It is a joy but sadly its place will be in its flock after a few weeks.


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## Feather

Jiggs and fp,

Thank you for your input! I must admit the first time that I heard "not to throw rice at weddings" I thought that maybe they just didn't want to clean up the rice after the wedding. But I heard it so many times after that, it actually started to carry some weight. One day when I returned from work my husband told me we were out of seed, so he fed the birds some rice. When he left, I went outside and dumped all of the contents of their bowls (seed and all) in the trash. I know that what you are handing to me freely is many years of your hands on expierence....plus hours and hours of research. And I do appriciate all that you are teaching me.

Thanks again,
Feather


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## Victor

*mirror test*

Sk8ter~
Birds,pigeons perform their bodily waste functions from the same vent area. 

There is a proper anatomical way of determining their sex, but one that I feel is 90% dependable is a mirror. Use the mirror test method by placing a mirror in front of the pigeon and watch how it reacts after it sees the image of "the other pigeon".If it reacts with great interest, flairs its feathers, make loud coo-ing sounds, and even does a pacing dance, then he is most likely a male. The females will usually show less interst in their image.Try that.


----------



## feralpigeon

Hi Sk8er,

Ther mirror 'test' is considered to be a fairly good way of determining the sex of your pigeon, although I do have a female who likes to 'kiss' the pretty girl in the mirror  . And some females will fan their tails and twirl, while roo coo cooing.

The males, however tend to be far more dramatic in their demonstrations than the females. They also tend to be consistantly more vocal through out the day. Some folks say that the most accurate way to tell is when the egg 
'drops'  .


Feather, it's an excellerated learning primer here @ PT, but for me, not years of experience  . Here are some links on rice and pigeons:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9005&highlight=rice

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8344&highlight=white+rice;)

I have read that a combination of white and brown gives a better balanced nutritional combine.

fp


----------



## sk8er

I have done the mirror test multiple times unknowling like when I go to comb my hair etc. the little pidgedy is onmy shoulder and usually shows little interest in the other pigeon even when I hold it clost to the mirror (on my plam). So female.All it s other male buddies are ocuruitnf females with the head bowiung down action things and some I have seem also try to get close the females "between the legs" area.

Hey BTW did you guy sraise all of your pet pigeons form a sqauab and is that why they are so attached to you and show signs of affection. Mine so far only sits near me quietly. No affection signs ? However fights me when I remove it to clean its nest ad goes straight back to next. However, when she is sitting next me me or on me she seems pretty normal: looks around, eats what I give her, etc..


----------



## Victor

It is very normal for them to peck at you and even wing slap you. She is protecting her territory...being her nesting area in her instance.Don't take it personally.It took mine about 10 months to a year to really get fully trusting of me.


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> .......
> 
> Hey BTW did you guy sraise all of your pet pigeons form a sqauab and is that why they are so attached to you and show signs of affection. Mine so far only sits near me quietly. No affection signs ? However fights me when I remove it to clean its nest ad goes straight back to next. However, when she is sitting next me me or on me she seems pretty normal: looks around, eats what I give her, etc..


As Victor pointed out, they do get pretty territorial over their 'homes' no matter how temporary they may be, it still represents their 'safe' place for them. Different breeds are more high strung than others, so sometimes it does depend on the breed of pigeon. And different pigeons have different personalities as well, again, it all takes time. So there isn't really a pat answer to your question, although not all people friendly pigeons have been hand raised as squab.

Sounds like your getting pretty fond of having a pigeon around, wonder if you've ever checked out Petfinders to see if there is a pigeon in need of a home in your area? They do get some tamed ones there that folks have raised as pets.

fp


----------



## sk8er

Ok back to my original question. Do I nned to raise a squab for 30 days in order to trust me or would a fully grown one trust me ? And how can I not become fond of her ? My lady is one fine pigedy, alhough she would need to go back in the wild once her tail grows back.


----------



## Skyeking

Any bird you spend lots of time with will usually become quite tame and trust you, but that should be a domestic pigeon. Pet pigeons are those that are usually hand raised because they were abandoned by their parents, at an early age. We don't actually raise them from a few days old for fun, it is exhausting work, and not fair to youngsters who have perfectly healthy parents. They need their parents for optimum health and well being of body and mind.

On the other hand, those of us with rehabbed feral pigeons, that are now pets due to injury, make wonderful pets too.


----------



## Camrron

Hi SK8Er,

I am really happy to hear that all is going well. Sounds like your bird is in good health. I would't worry about not being accepted by your bird though because they do have some inborne programming that will cause them to be aloof no matter what you do. I myself got a pigeon that had just basically fallen out of the nest, about a month old. I am his only friend and companion yet he still exhibits signs of territorialism. He can be very aggressive with me at times too. Pigeons just aren't like cats and dogs that reward you for feeding them by giving you love and affection. So you are not alone in that regard. There are many posts on this site about people experiencing exactly what you are describing. I am one of them. 

I think the answer to your question about raising a squab is that it would not guarantee that the bird would be totally trusting of you. They will always have some behaviors that we people might define as distant or aloof, even aggressive. 

I have been amazed at how many "bird" behaviours mine exhibits even though I am his only care giver. Where did he learn those things without the benefit of his parents or other birds? I think it is called instinct and it really is in the basic programming of the creature. So, like I have said before, don't have your feelings hurt if your bird does not act in ways that you might see as affectionate or trusting. Some things are just out of our control.

By the way, do you have a name for your bird. I don't recall any name given.

Cameron


----------



## feralpigeon

Hi Sk8er,

I currently have all unreleasable pigeons--6 in total--5 this coming Monday as Victor will adopt Beaksley from me. He was given to me by a new member who rescued him at the Marina while trying to swim in the bay and being picked on by a few seagulls. 

They can be territorial in nature regarding what they consider to be 'their property' around your house. They also can be very loving.
For some, the distinction regarding showing affection may be that they realize that they could not have survived w/out your intervention and show that. It may also be just an individual trait that we simply can not put our 'finger' on.

It does appear that raising from a squab does not ensure anything, as I have done so, released to the originating flock, and while the bird showed timidity about re-entering the flock by clinging to my arm while trying to make her decision, once the decision was made, she never approached me again as a flock member.

fp


----------



## sk8er

Thanks guys. Was wondering if there is anyway I can estimate my pigeons age ? Also, how do I figure if she has had a mte or babies waiting ? Is there any way to tell if she is a virgin? Regardless, her flock comes to my house a lot and was wondering if releasing her there would make her find her old mate. 

So I guess my biggest question is, would her old mate, if she had one, wait for her after 2-21/2 weeks she has been with me ?


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> Thanks guys. Was wondering if there is anyway I can estimate my pigeons age ? Also, how do I figure if she has had a mte or babies waiting ? Is there any way to tell if she is a virgin? Regardless, her flock comes to my house a lot and was wondering if releasing her there would make her find her old mate.
> 
> So I guess my biggest question is, would her old mate, if she had one, wait for her after 2-21/2 weeks she has been with me ?


Hi Sk8er, 

I was traveling withing my scope of employment to a particular location where the pigeons recognized me as a feeder and beyond. One particular pij was, I believe, in her own way, asking for help. Her feet were ravaged w/string. I was able to catch her, remove the string, heal the 'skin' on the feet and treat
for other 'known' problems. At the time of her capture, there was another pij in the flock greatly distressed by her capture, this I recall. I released her three weeks from the time I set out to 'help' her. The morning of her release, as in the day of her 'capture', a pij, very interested in her well-being, flew over to her on the garage where she flew to when I held her in the air for release. They mated within the first few minutes of her release.

fp


----------



## sk8er

How do you know he was greatly distressed by her capture ? Also how do you know the pig you caught was a she ?


----------



## Victor

GO TO THE TOP PAGE IN YOUR SEARCH FUNCTION AND TYPE IN SEXING PIGEONS.IT WILL TAKE YOU TO SOME GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT DETERMINING THE SEX. Opps, sorry did not mean to use all caps here.


----------



## sk8er

Her tail has started to come out ? Not even close to a full pigeon tail but it is coming slowly? Either I keep her or a few more weeks until it develops or release her so she can get back on with her life and mate ? What do you guys think ?


----------



## Victor

*Determining age of pigeons*

About the age of pigeons, click on this link:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9556


----------



## Victor

Here is one more age link for you to check:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm


----------



## Victor

*To go or not to go?*



sk8er said:


> Her tail has started to come out ? Not even close to a full pigeon tail but it is coming slowly? Either I keep her or a few more weeks until it develops or release her so she can get back on with her life and mate ? What do you guys think ?



Well, Sk8er...that all hepends on her. Once she is at the safe releasable stage, take her to the area you may think she came from/ Is there a flock nearby?

Take her there, hold her up to the sky and if she goes, she wants to return to her lifestyle. If she stays or comes back to you, well I guess you have a pet pigeon..


----------



## sk8er

Well I was thinking for one more thing. When I caught her around 2 and a half weeks ago it was cold here max during that time was 57°F with a low of 45°F. Deceomber was even colder. So do you think they had babies in this cold ? and if no then do you think they had mates ? oK a lst but unrelated question, do they mate with the same bird for life or a different one every year ?m She is deinately older than 3 months according to that age website. Also, by looking at her eyes and feathers, I would say over a year becayse they seem a little weathered. BY looking at the he rskin on the feet which is a little loose than a fresh crisp feathered bird I had caught sometime back, I would say year and a half atleast, given they live for 3-5 years. So big question is 

1. same mate for life?
2. do you think they would have babies in the nest in the cold weather ?
3. I have a fair ides of where they live and there is no place their that they could even build a next leave alone lay eggs ?


----------



## Camrron

Hi skater,

About the cold. I can tell you for a fact that pigeons do breed and breed succesfully in cold weather. My bird came to me on a day, likely after falling right out of his nest when it was a cold day in mid-November. On that day it was -15 celsius which, if I am correct is about 12 farenheit or something like that. It is hard to do the translation since I am not really familiar with the Farenheit numbering anymore. We don't use that in Canada, sorry. But it was cold and darn cold too if that helps. Well below 32. There was snow on the ground at the time. My little pigeon was raised up in this weather from an egg. Go figure. I have seen them bathe in the river when it is freezing with ice flows going downstream. Pigeons are truly amazing birds. they are really tough. Ford tough, ok !

Cameron


----------



## sk8er

what kind of pigeon ? feral ? I just wanna make sure my bird didnt have a mte or something ? Do they find a new mate or go for the existing one ?


----------



## Maggie-NC

sk8er, pigeons normally pick one mate for life but some are also fickle - both boys and girls. If this pigeon did have a mate then the mate may have decided it was dead and has already selected another mate. However, that could change if the bird you have recovers enough in the next few weeks to be released.

We rescued an adult pigeon a few years back that had been injured (can't remember offhand what the injury was) and kept it for, I think, about two months. We knew this flock and knew its mate. She/he had already started billing/cooing with another bird but when we returned the injured bird to the flock, he literally "fussed" his/her mate out and ran the potential suiter away and things got back to normal.

They are funny little guys.

Maggie


----------



## sk8er

its gone. Didnt want it to miss out on anything.


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> How do you know he was greatly distressed by her capture ? Also how do you know the pig you caught was a she ?



Hi sk8er,

Alot of activity here since I was on last, so this is where I left off.....My vehicle was pulled all the way into the driveway and directly in front of a garage where
they would fly to and sit when they saw me coming. I put her in my vehicle and then proceeded to back out. While the others were aware that I'd just caught her, they simply went back to the garage roof. This one bird seemed distressed by the calls he made and flew from spot to spot as we backed out
watching us. Whether or not a she? Well, it's something that you can get 
pretty intuitive about over time. It's not one thing, but more like adding up
circumstances and clues. I was pretty sure she was a female; the shape of head, size, behavior--although, like I said before, an egg is truly definitive.

fp


----------



## Whitefeather

sk8er said:


> *its gone*. Didnt want it to miss out on anything.


I've missed a few posts & have tried to 'backtrack' a bit.
Who's gone? Did you release the pij you were caring for, whose tail was growing back?  

Cindy


----------



## feralpigeon

*its gone. Didnt want it to miss out on anything.*

Hi sk8er, it's sad that the bird is gone, but you did well to care for her while
her tail was growing back in. The tail usually takes about 6 weeks to grow in,
so the worst part of the wait is over, and she'll have the protection of the flock
that she returned to. It's very compassionate of you to have understood and
empathized with her situation.

*what kind of pigeon ? feral ?*

The pigeons we see are called feral and at one time or another, perhaps generations back were domesticated and in someone's care.

*I have a fair ides of where they live and there is no place their that they could even build a next leave alone lay eggs ? *

They build their nests in areas that are generally protected from view. Even for one large flock in the city, maybe about 150of them, I never did see any of their nests, but there they were everyday up on the wires.

Sk8er, I feel sad about the bird even tho you did the right thing, because I know you were fond of it. If you would like a pet, maybe you could keep an eye on the adoption section here, or check in with Petfinders who sometimes has a dozen listings on pigeons at their site:

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=5579337

Anyhow, you don't need to have/own a pij to be a member here.

Best,

fp


----------



## sk8er

Cindy, 
I released it into its own flock. The tail was cming out nicely. And like someone mentioned earlier that temeprature ha dnothign to do with mating. Also, I did think that it was old and hence would probably have a mate and everything. Hence, I thought it would be happy with its flock and mate. When it flock came out my window, I put it on the sil and it joined them after a few seconds. I went inside to get something and iretuened to see where it was, it had flown away to parts unknown, probaly to where it used to nest 3 weeks ago. I will let you know if I see her again.


----------



## Whitefeather

sk8er said:


> Cindy,
> *I released it into its own flock.*
> 
> *I thought it would be happy with its flock and mate.*
> 
> *I will let you know if I see her again*.


That's wonderful Sk8er.  I just wasn't sure if that was the same pij.

Yes, indeed, when they have recovered from whatever brought them to us, it's best to let them go. Kind of a bittersweet situation, sad for us, but best for them.   

On a couple of occasions there were pijjies from our 'backyard buddy' flock that needed assistance & their mates knew exactly where in the AZ room they were & would perch themselves outside the window, waiting patiently for their beloved mate to return. 

Yes, please do keep us posted, & thanks again.  

Cindy


----------



## sk8er

I saw her twice. Came with her flock. Once I called her the way I used to and after she responded, she came closest to me and them flew away. The second time she just sits there and eats. I usually give other regular food but since she is there I like to throw the stuff she liked most and she eats it. Well so long .... You guys have been great help. Do let me know if any of your little friends in need need a home.
She had recovered good enough to make it on its own but not fully but also got very desperate when he rflock came. I could not see her like that and figured I can take an emotional hit than see her go through it.

I hope to dear god that she lives peacefully.


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> ....
> 
> *She had recovered good enough to make it on its own but not fully but also got very desperate when he rflock came. I could not see her like that and figured I can take an emotional hit than see her go through it.
> 
> I hope to dear god that she lives peacefully.*




It's hard to help them out and get attached and then release them 'to the unknown', but that's how they live with their friends, with the future unknown to them. It was very good of you to see her feelings and respond to them.

Keep visiting and keep your eyes peeled on the adoption section, a nice pij
will come your way.

fp


----------



## sk8er

How does the adoption section work ? Someone some where finds a pigeon and then mails it to me to take care of it ?


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> How does the adoption section work ? Someone some where finds a pigeon and then mails it to me to take care of it ?


Well, it may vary from person to person, but there are pigeons that are rehabbed by folks here that go up for adoption, and there are folks that find that they can't keep a pet any longer and need to find it a home. The shipping usually costs in the range of $27.00, but you work out the detail w/the individual placing the bird for adoption. It would be yours.

fp


----------



## feralpigeon

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10


fp


----------



## Victor

*Good job sk8er!*

Sk8er~

Another member told me by phone what you did. I then read your latest post. What you did, was commendable.

She is gone now with her flock and soon may have a new family.What you did was right. You gave her a choice, and she took it. I know she will always remember the good that you did for her.Don't be surprised if she occasionally visits you, or maybe comes back for a meal.

Remember always that you helped a broken pigeon.Another one may come your way.

Thank you for caring for her and keep an eye to the sky sk8er.


----------



## sk8er

She already came , now three times since this morning. I will keep an eye out for the adoption section. I looked at it and did not see any recent pigeons which need a new home. This site is so good that once a pigeon is poseted here is taken by someone else immediately.


----------



## Victor

sk8er said:


> She already came , now three times since this morning. I will keep an eye out for the adoption section. I looked at it and did not see any recent pigeons which need a new home. This site is so good that once a pigeon is poseted here is taken by someone else immediately.


Just check regularly and be patient.


----------



## Camrron

You have shown kindness and compassion for your bird by releasing her and letting her have her freedom again. You may be commended. Good job.

Cameron.


----------



## sk8er

Camrron said:


> You have shown kindness and compassion for your bird by releasing her and letting her have her freedom again. You may be commended. Good job.
> 
> Cameron.


It wasnt easy. When I actually put her out I could not believe my hand was actually doing it. Thats how disconnected I felt.


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> *She already came , now three times since this morning. I will keep an eye out for the adoption section. I looked at it and did not see any recent pigeons which need a new home. This site is so good that once a pigeon is poseted here is taken by someone else immediately.*


Well, sometimes and sometimes not, but that'll give you a good reason to stay involved. Check here, check the Petfinders for your area, and, I did have another thought. Google for pigeon clubs in your area and get in touch w/them and see if someone would be willing to give you a bird. This may _seem_ like a long shot but not really. There are folks in the clubs that enjoy mentoring and teaching about the sport and how to care for the birds and sometimes just want to keep their loft numbers at a certain level.

It's downright hard to let them go when you've been taking care of them, but it is all about trying to get them back to good health so they can resume their feral life. You gave her an incredible gift even tho bitter sweet for you.

fp


----------



## sk8er

Thanks. I will do it. I skimmed through some clubs and they have pretty less activity than this forum. I rather find some pijie out there who has a real need and nurse it back to health. Do let me know if a pigie comes your way. I can pay for the shipping etc.


----------



## TAWhatley

Hi Sk8er,

If your location is in the thread, and I missed it, I do apologize. It would really help to know where you are as there are pigeons in need of homes all the time and all over the place. If you don't want to post it publicly, then please consider sending me a private message with your location information.

Thanks, and very well done on your rescue, rehab, and release!

Terry


----------



## sk8er

you guys I have some news you wont believe it ... in fact I am not going to tell you untill you take a couple of guesses.


----------



## Pidgey

Your shorttailed bird came back and wants back in?

Pidgey


----------



## bevslape

You found someone who wants to let you adopt?


----------



## sk8er

OK I am very heartbroken. Yeah the bird and a mate came back. Although the bird became wild within 2 days of release I put both in their bird house. NOw for the awful part, the mate had some serious health issue. When he flies around he makes a huffing sound. Actually, 2 -3 other birds from his flock make the same huffing sound when they fly around a bit. BUt I checked the mates mouth and he has blood in it. I am devastated. I am gonna look for the nearest rehabber. But what could the disease be ?


----------



## Pidgey

Doesn't sound good. Can you tell where the blood is emanating from? If it's a local cut due to too much grappling with another male, that's one thing. If it's a form of avian tuberculosis, it's completely another and very-much not good (for him or you). So, examine the bird carefully and wash the crap out of your hands with Lysol or something powerful after you're finished.

I don't have immediate recollection of that symptom so I'm going to have to do some research but many of the ones that involve respiratory problems aren't good--not necessarily fatal or untreatable, just problematic. 

Pidgey


----------



## sk8er

Not a local cut his mouth is fully blood.


----------



## Pidgey

Frankly, I would rather it was trichomoniasis and the blood was coming from one of the "cheese buttons" in the mouth having come off. That's a lot easier to treat. Have you already been through checking one for canker?

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

And this is all of a sudden, huh? I've never heard of what happens if a bird gets into rat poison but some of those contain Warfarin which is a blood thinner. 

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

Well, I haven't found that as a symptom of any disease in particular although there is a reference to a parasite that causes an acute, fulminating, hemorrhagic pneumonia. It's a coccidian parasite called "Sarcocystis falcatula" that can be picked up from contaminated soil. It's bad. You can google-search it but there's not a lot to say about it other than Diclazuril may be useful in its treatment but we're talkin' one really bad bug here.

I really hope it's something else.

Pidgey


----------



## sk8er

Ok. 

1. WHat do I need to do ? 

2. What medicine should I give him ? 

3. Also do rehabers charge money ?

4. How do I check for canker ? What is canker ?

The blood is inside the mouth and not in the "chesse buttons" or nostrils. Also, other birds form his flock have the same huffing/panting disease. Once they fly around a bit you can hear it. It makes a different sound than normal bird flying around. It is like when they breathe more, they make that diseased sound more.


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er said:


> Ok.
> 
> 1. WHat do I need to do ?
> 
> **Well, sounds like you need some help with this.
> 
> 2. What medicine should I give him ?
> 
> **We don't know for sure what the problem is yet.
> 
> 3. Also do rehabers charge money ?
> 
> **No, but you need to catch them and bring them in to be checked. If an avian vet who will treat pigeons for free, you usually have to sign them over to the doctor. Some rehab places will let you or have a volunteer return them to where they were picked up at. You have to call individually and find out how they operate.
> 
> 4. How do I check for canker ? What is canker ?
> 
> **Catch the bird, wrap a towel around the body w/head poking out to keep the wings from being mobile, and gently open the beak. Look inside the mouth and see if you see any whitish/yellow or yellow growths on top of the gum.
> This is canker--Trichomoniasis.
> 
> The blood is inside the mouth and not in the "chesse buttons" or nostrils.
> 
> **Does this mean there are cheesy growths?
> 
> Also, other birds form his flock have the same huffing/panting disease. Once they fly around a bit you can hear it. It makes a different sound than normal bird flying around. It is like when they breathe more, they make that diseased sound more.


**Canker can sometimes make them huff. Did you have a chance to check in the resource section for avian vets/rehabbers in your area?? Update us when you can. I'm sorry to hear about your flock.

fp


----------



## Pidgey

I hate to say that I wouldn't expect several adult birds in a flock to come down with that kind of respiratory symptom from trichomoniasis at the same time. Doves, maybe, but not pigeons. And you'd see other evidence like mouths that couldn't close right due to the "cheese buttons."

sk8er,

That symptom of Trichomoniasis, by the way, is inconsistent in placement--you'd open the mouth and find them almost anywhere. They just look like odd little bits and pieces of cheese that seem to be stuck around.

This just doesn't sound like that and I honestly don't know what to tell you besides getting the bird in hand to a vet and expect to pay real money. Much earlier in this thread, we suggested that you look around for a rehabber and offered to help find one if we knew your location. They're fairly rare although every big city usually has a few. You can't find them in the phone book. All you can do is call around to the vets and ask. Sometimes there's one vet that will work with several types of rehabbers.

But more often than not, even a good rehabber will go to a vet with a bad respiratory problem. We can't say for a certainty that the blood is related to the huffing--there could easily be a cut inside. In order to tell, you would actually need to examine the inside of the mouth for the source. It's possible to swab the airway to check for blood but I wouldn't suggest that to just anyone. This is pretty big league stuff.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon

Pidgey said:


> Well, sometimes the buttons may in fact keep the mouths from closing, but not always. I've also seen it start to mishape the upper and lower beak so there is gappage, and the gapping closes w/treatment. Also, it can be in organs or not in the mouth per se but around the opening into the air sacs causing some obstruction there. Anyway, I'm not hanging my hat on anything, as I don't think we know what's happening.
> 
> Regardless, the vet I take some of the pretty bad off pigeons to is on the list in the resource section, and as I said before, Poo, I have to sign a form, signing over the feral to him. It's been a while since I've been to Wildcare, but I think I also signed a form releasing the bird to them as well. I didn't have to pay in either situation, just sign the release. If several birds aren't well, this could be pricey.
> 
> fp


----------



## sk8er

Thanks Guys. Here is the question:

1. He has some blood in his mouth and I literally have to take a cotton swab or earbud to clean it up and then see for canker. The other bird does not have it for sure. Do you want me to do it or would it be too painful to do it for him.

2. Should I make him drink so water as it will clean out the blood and I can see what is going on in the mouth.

My gut feeling is that this is something big and I dont want to release them in the same flock. Also, I dont have any of their flock pigeons. I noticed it in others when they eat/ fly etc... Maybe huffing was a bad word, it is sort of like pigeon panting. Very deep panting.

3. How do I tell if he is the MATE. So far these two birds were sitting together at my place and they have not fought with ewach other, because my bird (the female) used to fight with every other bird I used to bring it during the two weeks she was with me.

4, The other bird in the flock which was panting did not have blood in its mouth. So could it be because of very bad bird kissing. One reason I think this is possible because the females beek is much more sharper than the males. I know it because of the way she used to peck at me.

5. Do I seperate them because dont want the disease to go to the other bird ?


----------



## feralpigeon

sk8er, 

Is he the only one w/the blood in his mouth?

You could try the bird burrito technique described earlier and use a pen light or mini mag and see what you can see. 

Is it warm where you live right now?

Well, if you haven't seen them billing or mating, I guess it's not definitive.

Separating them for the time being until there's a better understanding of what's happening there is probably a good idea.

Were you able to find someone in the list in the resource section?

fp


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## sk8er

Seperated them for the entire day and yes there was NO blood and he does have the yellowy cheesy stuff in his mouth. I mad hime drink water and the yellow stuff did not go away. From what I know from previous posts, you guys said it was pretty easy to treak. 

1. Please do tell me what meds I need to get for him. 

2. And do I still keep them isolated ?


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## Reti

Definately keep him isolated.
The drug you need is Flagyl (Metronidazole) or Spartrix, there are a couple more of the ..zole drugs, but the two I mentioned are most frecvently used.
You will need to get this from a vet and quickly. Canker (that is what the bird seems to have) is easily treatable in early stages, but as the canker advances it can be fatal eventually.
Until you get the meds, give him some Apple Cider Vinegar in his water (one tablespoon/gallon of water), keep him warm, comfortable, make sure he is eating and drinking and he is not stressed in any way.
Also you can give him a garlic capsule a day.
That is until you can get the medicine, hopefully you'l find a vet or rehabber tomorrow. This bird needs to be treated.

BTW, is there any smell, canker tends to have a bad odor.

Reti


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## sk8er

his mouth smells bad. Is there any chance of infection to humans ? Plus Flagyl is a prescription drug, yes prescription even for animals. Also he did eat this morning.


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## Reti

Yes, it is a prescription drug, that is why you need a vet or rehabber.
Canker is not transmittable to humans, no worry. Just apply basic hygiene, always wash your hands after handling the bird. That goes for all birds/animlas.
The bad odor indicates it is most likely canker.

Reti


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## sk8er

K. I am extremely busy at work which might prevent me to go to a rehabber right away. However, can Spartrix or Flagyl be bought at a pet drug store without prescription? Spartrix could be right, from a pet store.


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## feralpigeon

Hi sk8er, 

You can go to our resource section and find the thread on Pigeon Supply Houses. You won't need a prescription from them, have them ship overnight to you. The Spartrix is Carnidazole, and I would get both that and the Metronidazole if you can afford it. Medpet has a product call Meditrich--the Spartrix is the name of the Carnidazole & is put out by Janssen.

fp


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## feralpigeon

All right, here it is:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455:

And what the different ones have to offer:

http://www.jedds.com/SearchKeywordResults.asp

http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=canker&action=search

http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/catalog.php

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker/index.html

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html

Try to get the pill form of both as opposed to the powder for the Metronidazole.

fp


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## sk8er

I am not that lazy  I searched through all off them and they are not working. Hey can you ship me some spartrix and I can pay you via paypal. Or can anyone else on this forum ship it overnight. Please give me your email and I can email you my address and also paypal you the money right away. I need some spartrix fast. Some stores dont do overnight shipping and ordering itself might take some time (although they say it wont) . I dont want to take that risk. I am gonna be up all night checking this forum and watching my pij. So please do post an email.

I also do have an ideo on the blood. Maybe they were billing and like I mentioned before the females beek is very sharp so it might have injured th eindie of his mought as the blood is gone today and I can see the cheesy stuff.


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## feralpigeon

Hey you, don't think you're lazy, just wanted to make sure you got on the canker page. Just tried them and they seem to work. I was able to order spartrix at Globals....Jedd's doesn't carry Spartrix. Check your private mail.

fp


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## Pidgey

Well, there is another way that you might be able to get at a pet store that carries fish tank supplies. There is a product called "FishZole" that is actually the same 250 milligram Metronidazole pill as "Flagyl". That works fine in a pinch.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Of course, you'll want to cut it up into eighths.

Pidgey


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## sk8er

Pidegy, can you mail me some meds. I can pay you by paypal.


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## Pidgey

Sure I could but here's the problem: It's Friday and they wouldn't get to you til' probably Monday. The "Fish Zole" is going to be your fastest option because you can probably have it in hand by Friday. It's a real common fish-tank medication. If I knew your basic city, I could probably get online and find a place that keeps it in stock, no prescription necessary. I suggest that because if a bird is having respiratory problems, time is a bit important. 

Pidgey


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## sk8er

is aquazole the same as fish zole and would it serve the same purpose to treat canker ?

Also called some stores here and they have hex-out. Heres a link. The guy said he has got flagyl and metronidazole in it. Please advise if this would be good.
http://shop.petsmart.com/product/2534374302030064/2534374302030064/845524441807666.htm


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## Reti

I am not sure about the hex-out, it doens't tell me what's in it.
But any "zole" would do. Purchase the aquazole and let us know what dose the tablets are and then we take it from there.
Also don't forget, the female who was billing the sick canker pij might have to be treated also. Canker is pretty contagious among birds.

Reti


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## Pidgey

From what I could find out from a cached web page, the Hex-Out is supposed to be the same (250 mg. Metronidazole) if you get it in that form but somebody on the aquarium site said that it didn't work as well for their fish as the regular Metronidazole so don't know about that one. The "AquaZole" is a different formulation--50% Metronidazole and 50% Potassium Sulfate

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/AquaZole.html

So, I don't know what the Potassium would do to a bird. If a guy says that he's got Flagyl, then go get it--it IS 250 milligrams Metronidazole per tablet. 

And, sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I've actually had to WORK today (I hate that)!

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

In addition, you can always try going to a pharmacist that you know and begging for one or two Flagyl tablets to get you going while you're waiting for some to come in the mail from one of us or a pigeon supply house. I did find out that there is supposed to be a pigeon supply house in your town but the fellow that I talked to doesn't know the name or address.

Pidgey


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## sk8er

Hey guys,
Just to give you an update. I gave pigeon 1 spartrix and released him. He comes now and then but I didnt want to catch him. Pigeon 2 is fine. I relased him too and he comes back. And his came out really nicely.


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## Victor

Thta is a great update sk8er.
It appears that you have come a long way. Good job! 

Now, are you still considering getting a pet pigeon...not a catch of course.


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## feralpigeon

sk8er,

That is good news, I'm glad you were able to get some meds for your two rescues and that they were able to be released. If they are coming back for visits, you must have gained their trust and this is double the good news.

fp


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## my_gina

aww thats a great story sk8er....i always find birds, and i can never let them be if there hurt. i always have to do something for them  ....hehe iam a bird lover....just as fr my pigeon im going crazy trying to make her better and bettterrr, and im trying my est my whole family is and its looking better 
but we stilll have to wait and see...

Sk8er how old are you? you seem young....and looks like you like to skateboard


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