# found a baby pigeon, need help!!!



## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

Hi! I found a baby pigeon that is a day or two old. I don't see any feathers coming out yet & his eyes are still closed. He seemed to be fine but his crop was full of seeds! I know pigeons feed their babies with crop milk but no seeds at this age. He is definitely not older then 3 days. i can see big round seeds in the crop. It's been 24hrs since i got him & his crop had emptied some of it but only about a half. I gave him some ACV water twice already & don't know what to do now, he is begging for food but i don't want to feed him before crop is empty. I keep him at 100-105 degrees & he was very warm when i found him which is weird because i didn't see any birds around (there is none still) & he was on my drive way but i didn't want to leave him there - it's cold out at night. What can i do to empty his crop so he can have some Exact? I fed a baby parrot so i have an idea how to do that but i realize it's a little different though. I have a "Great life enzymes pro+" should i add it to his water or something? This is for puppies & dogs but as far as i know it's pure natural. I also have a Nutri-Cal. Please, tell me what to do asap, he is hungry...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Is the baby pooping?


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

he did poop about 10 times in 24hrs...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm wondering if he was picked up by a Crow and dropped in your driveway or if not a Crow, something.
Can you post a picture?
It sounds like his crop may be empty by morning. You could feed him some applesauce for a human baby mixed with a little warm water. Other than that, I think you need to wait until the crop empties until you feed the exact formula.


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Are you estimating the birdie's age from it's size?? Are you sure it is a pigeon and not a dove?? A 3/4 day old pigeon would be about the size of a week old dove and a dove might have already been getting seeds from it's parents.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

Thank you for your help. he is just a little bigger then an average chicken egg. He has this white tooth on his beak. his skin is pink so i think it's a 3 days old pigeon (according to pictures i found online). I don't have apple souse now, will get it tomorrow but is AVC water ok? how about digestive enzymes? should i try that? i will post pictures tomorrow as soon as i get the camera


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

By the morning, the crop should be empty and you can feed the formula, Adding a bit of the digestive enzymes is a good idea....acv is ok until then. I would pick up the applesause to have on hand in case you need it.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

this morning his crop was empty so i fed him with some formula using a syringe & he is sleeping now. i checked him carefully this time & he has no scratches, no visible injures or anything like that. So i'm not sure how he got to my drive way...But he has some purple-red veins on his left side of the body & crop. What could it be? Here are some pictures for you to see what i'm talking about.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

here is the vein


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Oh My! That is a tiny baby! Good on you for taking this little one in! The baby is so young that the skin is still really transparent. There may be some very slight bruising from a fall, but looks normal and OK for the most part to me. Keep up the good work!

Terry


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

i'm trying my best, thank you! here is another question. I don't have a heating pad (i keep him under a 50Wt lamp & rice sock underneath). There is some heating pads sold in Petco (for cats & dogs) - are these ok?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The heating pad will be easier in the long run, they sell them at the drugstore, the one at the petstore may be ok but you might not need one that big, do a price check and get the cheaper one, his crop looks good after you fed him...good job! please keep us updated....he is so preciouse....just to add, you can keep him in a container or shoe box and put that on top of the heat pad and then a towel over the box or container, a rubbermaid container or box or even a big butter tub....I have also seen people use a clean feather duster, with the feather part right ontop of the baby and the handle sticking up...


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Yes, it definitely looks like a pigeon baby. Good on you for helping it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to keep the heating pad no higher than the low setting, so you will have more control with one designed for humans.
Also, it appears that the baby could be developing splayed leg. Make a donut shaped nest, that just fits his body. I use a hand towel and tape the ends together with masking tape. Put a towel underneath him so he has something to grip with his feet.
Has his crop emptied?


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

yes, his crop was empty this morning so i fed him with formula about 1.5hrs ago, he digested some of it but it's still pretty full. I'm going to get some applesauce & heating pad for him. Will check his crop again as soon as back from store. Thank you all for your help, will keep you posted!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great! Are you in the States?


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

yes, i'm in states. ok, i bought a human heating pad for muscles pain relief this is all i could find with "low" setting on it. made a little "donut" from a towel, put it in a small box, covered it with another towel on top & he is sleeping right now. i left a lamp on to get the temperature to 100 degrees asap. i'm watching the temperature too often probably but i just want to make sure he is ok. i also bought low fat organic plain yogurt just in case. his crop still has about 1/3 food in it even though i fed him about 4hrs ago. Here is the mix i was advised to feed him with instead of plain exact. 2 tablespoons of exact + 1/2 tablespoon of malt-o-meal + digestive enzymes powder. cover it with water & let it stay for about 15min. mix it well & add little bit of nutri-cal + olive oil + cherry juice + yogurt. Warm up (by putting the cup with this formula in a dish with hot water), stir it well & feed baby with about 4-6cc. cover leftovers & put in the freezer. don't use it longer then for 3 days. the person i got this recipe from found it on this forum but i couldn't find it here yet. i have all ingredients. do you think this formula is good to feed the baby with it?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please don't use that formula. 
Mix Exact as you need it and then discard and unused portion.
To the exact add some warm water. Let it stand a couple of minutes and add more water to reach the consistency you want. To that you can add 1/2cc of applesauce or yogurt. At this age no nutri-cal or olive oil. It's hard for me to give you exact amounts because I mix the formula from sight.
How much are you feeding each time?


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

thank you, i won't. good thing that i asked you before feeding last time he ate about 5cc & his crop was full (soupy consistency)


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Just a word of caution about the new heating pad .. many of the current models have an automatic shut off after 2 hours. If yours has this feature you will have to be very diligent about making sure it stays on 24/7. Hopefully the heating pad you got doesn't have this feature.

Terry


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

wow, he opened his eyes! it's not wide open yet & he keeps it close most of the time but he was looking at me yes, the pad i got doesn't have an auto shut-off function. Just like you said the cheapest one Others were more expensive & i thought i will need some sleep at night


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

new2pgs said:


> thank you, i won't. good thing that i asked you before feeding last time he ate about 5cc & his crop was full (soupy consistency)


Might try 4 cc's and work your way up to 5. I gradually increase the amount every day as the baby grows.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2008)

From the sounds of things, you are going to be a great pigeon parent. Listen to suggestions offered here, these people are the best !!! If you succeed, and believe me it will take lots of work, you will have the best pet ever. There's nothing like a handfed ( I do not recommend that anyone pull a baby away from parents to do this) pigeon for a pet.
keep us updated, and be sure to ask questions.
Daryl


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

thank you so much! he is just too little & young for me to take less work then it is suppose to, he needs help now, so i am trying really hard. i'm sure i'll have more questions i know you people are great & it is very important to get a good advice at the right time that is why i was told to go to this forum for help & i'm glad you are so responsive! Thanks so much again!


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

by the way, how old do you think he is by looking at the picture? & when do they open their eyes?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

new2pgs said:


> by the way, how old do you think he is by looking at the picture? & when do they open their eyes?


here is a link to the growth and age of a baby

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

im thinking 3 to 5 days old.....


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

i'm scared. he makes clicking noise constantly when breathing. i didn't hear it yesterday. he squeaks loudly & it didn't seem to effect that. what can it be?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pick him up,put your ear to his back and listen for any rattling noises.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

no i hear only a clear clicking sound


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

just wanted to let you know that my baby is doing much better (knock on wood). browses are almost gone. I didn't hear a clicking sound today at all, his poops are normal again & he is very alert & active it's funny to watch him get out of his nest to poop & then get back he can barely stand on his feet yet so it makes it even more funny he is grooming him self & asking to be fed even after filling his crop up completely. hope i'll have good new for you every day Thank you all so much! you've done a lot for me & my baby!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's great news! Keep up the good work.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Great news! Please do keep us posted! Baby pigeons are so totally adorable, and it really is amazing how such a little thing knows to get up, back up, and poop! Gosh .. I think I am suffering from empty nest syndrome .. somebody .. please slap me silly or something! Baby bird season will be starting up again soon enough .. I don't need any babies right now!

Terry


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

yeah, i was kind of shocked! i didn't know pigeons do that. i thought he just didn't want to sleep in a dirty nest but it seemed to much of a brain for a 4-5 days old baby anyways i don't know if that is normal but his little pink wings are just reminding me of baby hands. looks like he didn't really figured out how to use them yet but is trying all the time there is also a lot of temper in this tiny bird! he tried to bite me today when i woke him up (i guess to suddenly for him) to have his breakfast he doesn't like when i touch his head or anywhere on a lower part of his back. it's so funny how he reacts then i have couple (or even more) of questions though. fist, his crop is emptying in about 4hrs after feeding which i guess is fine but i used to add some organic baby apple souse to the formula. tonight i tried plain formula with spring water (warm of course). we'll see how it goes. the question is, is it ok to add apple souse to every meal? should i switch it to yogurt sometimes? another question is, does he need water at all? just plain water between the meals maybe? and more...i'm having problems teaching him to eat from baby nipple. he just doesn't eat from it. but when i use syringe he seems to enjoy the food. i can deal with the air getting into his crop by massaging it out but i'm scared of getting a food into his lungs or trachea when using this method...the clicking sound is back after recent meal, maybe it has something to do with the way i feed him...but he is breathing normally (as far as i can tell). just in case, what kind of medication should i have on hand to treat bacteria that can develop if food gets to his lungs? how can i teach him or is it too early? i don't think he enjoys feeding by sticking his beak into whatever...any suggestions on that? will post some pictures probably tomorrow so you can tell me if he looks healthy to you. thanks in advance!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

new2pgs said:


> yeah, i was kind of shocked! i didn't know pigeons do that. i thought he just didn't want to sleep in a dirty nest but it seemed to much of a brain for a 4-5 days old baby anyways i don't know if that is normal but his little pink wings are just reminding me of baby hands. looks like he didn't really figured out how to use them yet but is trying all the time there is also a lot of temper in this tiny bird! he tried to bite me today when i woke him up (i guess to suddenly for him) to have his breakfast he doesn't like when i touch his head or anywhere on a lower part of his back. it's so funny how he reacts then i have couple (or even more) of questions though. fist, his crop is emptying in about 4hrs after feeding which i guess is fine but i used to add some organic baby apple souse to the formula. tonight i tried plain formula with spring water (warm of course). we'll see how it goes. the question is, is it ok to add apple souse to every meal? should i switch it to yogurt sometimes? another question is, does he need water at all? just plain water between the meals maybe? and more...i'm having problems teaching him to eat from baby nipple. he just doesn't eat from it. but when i use syringe he seems to enjoy the food. i can deal with the air getting into his crop by massaging it out but i'm scared of getting a food into his lungs or trachea when using this method...the clicking sound is back after recent meal, maybe it has something to do with the way i feed him...but he is breathing normally (as far as i can tell). just in case, what kind of medication should i have on hand to treat bacteria that can develop if food gets to his lungs? how can i teach him or is it too early? i don't think he enjoys feeding by sticking his beak into whatever...any suggestions on that? will post some pictures probably tomorrow so you can tell me if he looks healthy to you. thanks in advance!


As the two of you become accustomed to each other, the feedings will develop a sort of rhythm. If he won't eat from the nipple, use the syringe. You both just need practice.
You don't need to give the baby water as there is water in the formula. 
I put either applesauce or yogurt in each feeding. You can also use a scant pinch of powdered garlic.
Liquid baytril is good to have on hand.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

The opening to the trachea or windpipe is at the base of the tongue, It opens and closes the way an old-fashioned ladies' coin purse does, one that had two hinges on the sides of a metal frame from which the cloth or leather bag was suspended, and snapped shut. (I saw this when I did an autopsy on a young rescued pigeon which suddenly died on October 11th at 3:30 A.M., and suspected it may have aspirated liquid from its crop. It hadn't). The "lips" of the opening curve upwards towards the center, forming a bit of a peak, so that food or liquid flows over and to the sides and doesn't readily snag at the opening. Ingenious design. This young pigeon, a "squeaker," was feeding on her own a few days, and had slowed down on eating on Thursday, and ate little on the day before her death early Saturday morning. 

From my log: We had a female squeaker, *Minnie-Coo*, pass away this morning [Saturday] at 3:30. She had been with us less than two weeks, and seemed to be doing quite well; feathers growing, putting on weight from 139 grams to 240 grams in one week, then hovering around 200 grams the past couple of days. She regurgitated seeds (rapeseeds) late Tuesday evening. I think she aspirated some intubated liquid baby food, which I had been feeding her, and choked. She has been the only rescue I have handled for quite a while.
She was a real sweetie, beautiful, quite strong, and flying a few meters, and from the floor to the table-top. Last night she wanted to stay near me, even went to my pillow before I went to bed. She slept nearby the past two nights, on a heating pad. I had given her several types of meds, but not the right one. I had thought that as long as I could keep her weight from dropping much below 200 grams (28 grams = 1 ounce), that I could keep her alive until Monday, when I could take her to the pigeon clinic in Essen, Germany (_Taubenklinik Essen_), several hours away by bus, two trains, and a streetcar. 


I use a cheap digital kitchen scale, graduated in grams up to three kilograms (purchased for about 10 Euros or $15 USD here in Germany) to monitor the weight of rescues. I am a night person, but I try to weigh them before their first full feeding of the day, for consistent results and comparisons. A significant change in weight, indicating illness, can often occur before one takes note of visible signs. Pigeons, being flock and also prey animals, try to appear healthy as much as and for as long as possible, since acting or appearing sick or badly injured attracts the attention of predators, and means exclusion from the safety of the flock. 

We also examine their poops carefully. I often use clean white kitchen paper towels under the bird, for comparing volume (frequency and amount) and color and composition. I have taken lately to making frequent digital photos of a pigeon undergoing rapid changes in growth or health, as a back-up to and verification of my notes.

I keep a daily log, with times, of meds given and doses. I also take notes on their level of activity, and anything notably interesting. Often things which are only curious but insignificant at the time, upon later review turn out to be significant of things I had overlooked.

Why keep notes? We forget. If you think of someone you know, you usually form a picture of him as he or she appeared the last time you saw him, or recently. If I am discussing my 50-year-old younger brother Paul, I'm not visualizing him as a teenager, although any visualizations are equally legitimate if accurate. I'm belaboring the point. Getting old-ish, if not old. 

Good luck with your little one. In 2004, one of a pair of rescued baby pigeons, *Chocolate*, in a nest in a large flower pot which some uncaring person had removed from their balcony or terrace, died after thirteen days with me. His appetite had diminished the day before he died. His healthy sibling weighed 75 grams, he only 45 grams (an ounce-and-a-half). *Vanilla*/*Pidgiepoo* grew to be a healthy adult male, but with a slightly splayed left leg (turned outwards 45 degrees), which developed before I had found pigeon-life.net (then pigeon.com).

Better to hear a few not-so-happy comments and warnings, than to experience it yourself. Also, be aware of any bad fumes or gases (too much perfume, fumes from cleansers. Hot Teflon cooking ware is lethal.

The PT website has a lot of resource material. Don't be afraid of asking too many questions, or of posting too much or too often, or of asking "stupid" questions. There are no such things, especially when the alternative is to expose the health and life of a young creature to unnecessary risk. It's okay to want to appear intelligent and well-informed to your friends, but I don't mind appearing stupid in these forums -- except for giving bad or incorrect advice. In those instances, and they have occurred, I solicit and welcome correction and admonishment. How else to learn? Abraham Lincoln once remarked (I paraphrase) that he didn't think much of a man to didn't improve or learn something from one day to the next. 

Larry


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

my baby is doing ok, he is week old today. i didn't have time to take some pictures yet but will try over the weekend. i see some dark spots on his wings so i guess he finely developing feathers. i think he is twice bigger then he was when i found him. got to go feed him


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's wonderful. I'll be looking forward to the pictures.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

here are some new pics. right after i fed him. his is developing splay legs even though i made a donut-like nest. he sticks his leg out of the nest right away after i put him in there...i tried to secure his legs with medical tape yesterday but he got it off in less then 5min any advises on that? also, i think he is developing too slow for his age (8 days i think). feathers are just starting to come out (i see some spots under his skin). but he is very active, trying to walk with help of his beak today i heard him sqweeking while sleeping, i guess it's was like snoring how is he looking? is he too skinny? you can still see some browses but it's a lot better now.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

thank you Larry_Cologne, i was able to see his trachea opening & now i'm sure i'm putting syringe in his throat passing it. but he used to the way i feed him by now, he opens his beak wide so i can make sure it works best for me
here is more pictures


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you take a picture of him in the donut? You may need to make it more snug.
By now, how much are you feeding and how often? 
How thick is the formula?


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Oooh, he is adorable. 

Hand fed babies so tend to be slower to develop than parent fed ones. In addition to the donut, do you have some material under his feet that he can get a good grip on? The towelling in the photos would do just fine!

In the past, I have fastened badly splayed legs together with micro-pore tape. It works effectively but is difficult to remove without removing feathers and tender skin along with it! I have also tried an elastic band, twisted in the middle to make it the correct size, around the legs.

Sue


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

i just made a new nest & he can't stick his leg out of it. yes, i do put towel in the bottom. will take a picture later. by now he eats 5-7cc but only 3 times a day because his crop takes about 4hrs to empty (sometimes it's not even completely empty & little left in there) i make it little thicker now more like melted ice cream. i tried to do it even more thicker ones but it took him longer to digest. i think maybe i should feed him less food but more often?
i'm going to buy scale today so i can watch his weight.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

yes, i will also buy elastic band & will try to put it on his legs but he is so tiny still & all these browses... i'm still scared to hurt him


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

OH, I don't think I would put rubber bands on the babies legs.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Do you know anyone who has pigeons? A couple of snap bands would work perfect, tied together with a rubber band. 
You could also try to find a medium size rock and put it in a sock and put it up against the baby in the nest. If you could just keep his legs under him for another 4 or 5 days and let them start growing correctly, I think he'd be ok.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

i just looked at his legs & i think i will stick with donut-nest for now. he is too small yet. & also sometimes he likes to walk around the box where his nest is. if i put anything on his legs he won't be able to walk at all...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

new2pgs said:


> i just looked at his legs & i think i will stick with donut-nest for now. he is too small yet. & also sometimes he likes to walk around the box where his nest is. if i put anything on his legs he won't be able to walk at all...


Well, you're there, so you have to decide, but I'll warn you........if splayed legs aren't caught at a young age, sometimes they can't be fixed, THEN he would NEVER be able to walk. So you have to decide, a few days of not walking or a lifetime of not walking. 
You could still put a rock wrapped in a sock beside him and that would help keep his legs under him while he's sleeping. That's why there's usually not a problem with splayed legs with two babies becuase they help each other.....this happens with single babies a lot.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Try making the donut a little snugger. This is the time to correct the splayed leg before the baby gets too old. Otherwise, you could end up with a greatly disabled adult. That would be a shame since this is so correctable and quickly, if treated early.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

thank you, i will pick up some rocks on the way back from the store


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please review this thread.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/treatments-for-splayed-legs-17869.html

We had a member, earlier in the year, that did not take our advise, regarding splayed leg and the result was the bird was never able to walk or perch normally. One leg, off to the side, was always in the way. It was heartbreaking and so needless.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

new2pgs said:


> thank you, i will pick up some rocks on the way back from the store


You could also try stuffing a sock with rice to make a surrogate sibling. You could also heat it for a few seconds in the micro wave for warmth.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

here are pictures of his new nest? is it the way it suppose to be to help fixing his legs?


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

i will certainly take your advises & will try to fix problem asap, thank you!
also, do you see dark spots on his right wing? i think these are feathers. but no spots on his left wing at all yet, is this normal? also some spots are showing on his head


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would make it just a little snugger. Be sure to tape the ends, I use duct tape, so the shape won't come loose. You can also prop the baby up with feet on the donut.
The other option would be to try the sock surrogate in the donut with the baby.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

his feet are very strong, he already grabs my fingers so whatever i make to help him keep his feet under body he always finds a way to put it just like he wants to...but i will spend more time watching him then i can at my work & will do what you advised me too, thank you! you are the only & best way for me to get help in raising this baby healthy & strong!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

new2pgs said:


> i will certainly take your advises & will try to fix problem asap, thank you!
> also, do you see dark spots on his right wing? i think these are feathers. but no spots on his left wing at all yet, is this normal? also some spots are showing on his head


It's hard to tell from the picture if those are feathers. Usually, a normal size baby will start showing color and/or feathers around 9 or 10 days old, but like someone said, hand raised babies sometimes grow a bit slower. You'll start seeing big changes in him day to day now.........just keep the pictures coming. We LOVE those.........


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I hope his legs get straightend out.......one thing for sure that baby is thriving with your wonderful care! he looks good.....


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Lovebirds said:


> OH, I don't think I would put rubber bands on the babies legs.


You are right Renee - I had forgotten that I didn't put the elastic band directly on the legs. I used the snap bands with the elastic between them.

I have used a potato in a sock for a single baby to lean up against.


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

Marry Christmas everyone!
here is an update on my baby. he seem to be doing well, being very demanding for food even when is completely full. looks like food is the only thing he is thinking of right now. by now he eats about 7-8cc. he is growing feathers everywhere & looks like will be mostly white with some dark spots. i think he started to produce body heat. do you think i should lower the temperature on my heating pad? because sometimes he breathes with his beak open. & how do i feed him now as he is 2 weeks old already? adding something or keeping on exact+apple souse? something special for this age? & his legs...he absolutely doesn't like anything on his legs & whatever i put on it he takes it off as soon as i leave him along! i used medical tape, makeup sponge & some kind of super soft band-aid...if i put socks with rice or rock in his nest, he'll just get on them instead of sitting in the nest. i'm trying to watch him as often as possible & keep his legs fixed but every morning i find him with nothing on it. it looks a little better though. will keep working on it!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You're doing a terrific job with this little one! It is just an adorable baby!

You should soon be able to feed more than the 7-8 cc's and will eventually be feeding about 25-30 cc's per feeding. Obviously, this drastic increase happens in small increments over a period of time.

It really, really, really is important to get those legs the way they should be now while this pigeon is really young and still growing but without the bones already becoming hard and in place.

You might try a deep container that is wide at the top but narrower at the bottom as a nest bowl. The deeper container makes it hard for them to either get out or not keep their legs and feet where they need to be. You can also use a cereal box or similar box that is narrow and use that as a nest box until the leg problem resolves. The splay (if there really is one .. not sure by looking at these latest pictures) is not extreme and should be easily corrected within a short period of time with just a little bit of help/intervention by you.

Again .. super job that you've done with this little one!

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Meant to add ..

The Rubbermaid shelf liner stuff you have is GREAT .. lots of good traction for the baby.

I'm not sure what temp you are keeping the baby at, but if the little one seems too warm, then lower the temp a little bit. You are correct in that this one is now getting to the age/stage where it can maintain the body temp pretty well on its own. It still does need supplemental heat, but you may have it a little too hot.

Terry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Terry,

What about a little human physiotherapy to assist the chick? Extending and retracting the legs by human hand. Also, to determine if the chick resists it to any degree?

I tried correcting *Pidgiepoo*'s splay leg (in May 2004) when I first noticed and read of it in these forums, but it was too late for correction. While very young and with a full crop, he pulled himself along with his beak, and used his wings rather than his feet, somewhat like crutches. He left leg turned outwards at a 45-degree angle; he walked a bit lower to the ground as a result. Fortunately he was able to walk, though. He walked a bit more slowly than is normal, in a sort of shuffle. Being lower to the ground, with a rotated leg, caused him to launch and take flight a bit more slowly than is normal, although it might not be apparent to a casual observer. To a hawk or falcon, it might be the deciding factor to facilitate capture. 

New2pgs,

One vet informed me that feather-growing is a very energy-intensive process. One of my two current PMV rescues, *Jimmy-Z*, who is progressing, had pin feathers, but apparently did not grow his secondary feathers (the dark wing feathers on your adorable little chick) because of disease. They did not seem to be pulled out or pecked out. With supplementary nutrition they have grown out. 

You have an excellent opportunity to observe how deeply embedded the feather shafts are in the wings; how the feathers grow in rows so they can overlap like roofing tiles; the overlappinng layers can slide over each other, and the overlapping feathers reinforce the layers above and below them. I was not os observant when raising Pidgiepoo, and later the body feathers usually appeared to be placed at random, however they could fit in. I decided to become vegetarian (for a number of other reasons also) when Pidgiepoo disappeared at eight months of age in the middle of winter, so did not have chicken carcasses at hand to study feather placement. 

Technically (to be picky), pigeons will always generate body heat as long as they are alive and metabolizing food. The body has to maintain a certain core temperature. Too much heat, the body has to dissipate heat. Too little or too slow metabolizing the food or stored fat, supplementary heat is required. The more body mass relative to body surface area, the easier to maintain an equilibrium. Unfeathered baby birds have little body mass, and a vast surface area, thus can lose heat rapidly, faster than they can replace it if exposed to cold.

I have a bunch of downy feathers saved; I thought if I had another rescued chick, I could put a pile of them around him for insulation. Don't know how practical that would be. These little chicks need to poop a lot, frequently, and want to stay clean.

In my opinion, chicks need to spend of lot of time sleeping, but they should wake easily and appear alert. I would be leery of any sluggishness. Again, my opinion.

Larry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Physical therapy often does help and is certainly worth a try in this case if there is a splay problem.

It's really heartbreaking when a youngster comes in with a splayed leg (and sometimes both legs are splayed) and it's already too late to correct using the simple ways.

Terry


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

What a miracle baby! It's incredible that you found this little guy in time to save his life and incredible that he found you- so willing and able to help him. Truly amazing!


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## new2pgs (Dec 14, 2008)

thank you so much! my baby is doing well, feathers are coming out here & there except for his head though, mostly white...he is very active & alert but doesn't like the makeup sponge i put on him to fix his legs. i'm still working on it & planing to take it off over the weekend, we'll see how it goes. i will post some picture next year happy holidays!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update! I'm glad things are going well and will be looking forward to some pictures next year! 

Terry


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