# Male King pigeon vomiting seeds and not eating for 2 days. Only drinks lots of water.



## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi,

I have a pair of White King pigeons. recently the male has become sick and it does not eat any seeds. It keeps vomitting for the last 2 days. Following are the symptoms in detail.

1. It has stopped eating after it started to vomit. More than a day running now.
2. Vomiting has been going on for 2 days.
3. It just rests most of the time.
4. It drinks lots of water, as if trying to fill up not eating seeds with water.
5. Tried to see cranker but there is probably a small white dot inside the mouth. Cannot confirm cranker.

Following are precautions which I have already taken for 2 days:-

a. Mixed ACV with water for last 2 days to clear all bad bacteria. I use 3/4 of a teaspoon of ACV in 1 litre (1/4 gallon) of water. 

b. Mixed Falgyl (Metronidazole) with water for last 2 days. I mixed 200mg in 1 litre water.

c. Mixed Multivitamins (1 ml in 1 Litre) in water. 2 days running

d. Mixed calcium in water (1 ml in 1 Litre). Last 2 days.

The problem is even after trying these precautions for last 2 days pigeon did not start eating. Picture of the poop shown that it is starving.

I need the following suggestions:-

a. Should I isolate the bird from its pair and the rest of the birds?
b. Should I start giving de-worming medicine?

Since I am new in the world of keeping fancy pigeons as pets, any suggestions and advice will be very helpful. I am providing picture of the bird' poop and its own picture for your consideration.

Best,
Shirazi_Bunch


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

In addition to the above, I am giving them dose of electrolytes as well.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Additionally I am providing them salt as well in the water.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would definitely isolate the bird. Would keep him warm, and see if he will let you pop defrosted peas in his mouth gently.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

cwebster said:


> Would definitely isolate the bird. Would keep him warm, and see if he will let you pop defrosted peas in his mouth gently.


Thank you for the reply. The pigeon is scared when I take it in my hand and tries to fight out of my grasp. Should I force it to eat?

Also, what is the disease? Can you give me an idea and whether ACV and Metronidazole is good enough to cure it?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Its possible the bird has canker or a yeast infection. Giving meds in the drinking water is no good. Treating for canker for 2 days won't help either. Do you have metronidazole in tablet form? Give 50 mg once daily for 8 to 10 days. Continue with the ACV in drinking water. 

Can you get hold of Nystacid from a pharmacy? This will help with the yeast infection and works best given half an hour before feeding. Before you give any meds, try to forcefeed the bird defrosted peas. Try to aim for at least 30 peas.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could be canker, which doesn't always show in the throat. Always isolate a sick bird from the others. You need to get food into him or he will get weaker. Can you get frozen peas? You would defrost and warm them under water water. You want them warm, not hot. Better to treat him with Metronidazole in tablet form, as you can control how much he gets. With water, not so much. Cannot tell how much he is drinking. He should be getting 50 mg of Metronidazole once daily for 7 to 10 days. If after a few days there is no change then I would add an antibiotic. 
Feeding peas isn't difficult. This is how you would do it.

If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As Marina has said, it is better if you give a feeding before the Metronidazole, as that can make him vomit on an empty crop.
Start with 30 to 40 peas in a feeding to see if he keeps it down. If he does, do this morning and afternoon, but increase to 50 peas.
Or give 30 peas 3 times a day.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Yes I have metronidazole in tablet form. I grind it and mix it in water and also add ACV to it.

As you suggested, I will continue with ACV and metronidazole. But without mixing with water, how do I feed him. Do you want me to put a 50 mg tablet inside the mouth of the pigeon?

-


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, you can. If it seems to big, you can half that piece. Do it the same way you will feed the peas into the back of his mouth. If he spits it out, you are not putting it in deep enough. First try to feed some peas, the meds might make him vomit on a empty stomach.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Marina B said:


> Yes, you can. If it seems to big, you can half that piece. Do it the same way you will feed the peas into the back of his mouth. If he spits it out, you are not putting it in deep enough. First try to feed some peas, the meds might make him vomit on a empty stomach.


Thank you very much Marina. Based on your advice, I have hand fed the pigeon about 50 green peas which are fresh from my garden. I put some in the upper part of the beak which he tossed away. Later I placed them deep into the mouth which he ate. I feel verty happy as finally after 2 days the pigeon has something in its stomach. 

I did not give any metronidazole today as I already mixed it in water early in the morning. From tomorrow I will start giving him the tablet instead of dissolving it in the water. Let us see how things progress. I will also keep giving him the ACV mixed water.

Once more thing, should I give some de-worming medicine at the same time?

Thank you,
Shirazi_Bunch


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

No, leave the deworming for now. There's usually an improvement after 3 days when on metronidazole, but sometimes it takes longer. Don't stop the meds if he seems better after 3 days, continue for another 5 days or so. Glad that you were able to feed him. Let us know how he's doing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't use the Metro tablet in the water. The tablets don't mix well in water even when ground up. It won't work that way, so you can give the 50 mg in tablet now. 
Also, if you cook the peas first, then cool to lukewarm, so that they are softer, they are easier to digest. Good that you got food into him. How many mg is the tablet?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay is correct....don't put metronidizole in the water, it doesn't dissolve and you can't regulate how much they get. (ronidizole is a powder form meant to dissolve in water). I give 1/4 of a 250mg tablet (62.5 mg). I would give it now, don't wait until tomorrow. Treat for 7-10 days. I also would NOT give supplements and probiotics while treating with meds. Some of them bind with the medication making it less effective.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi, its a 400 mg tablet. So I guess I will have to break it in 8 parts with 50 mg each. I would like to wait for tomorrow since it is night here in my country and I would not like to disturb the birds now. Also I would like to feed him tomorrow morning before giving him the metronidazole. I would remember to continue giving it to him for 7-10 days.

I also got some nystatin suspension today. Should I start giving it to them or is ACV water good enough? 

I believe after feeding him, a few hours later he pooped and there are some faeces now. Before it was only urine and urates since the bird was starving.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can start with the Nystatin tomorrow morning. Give the pigeon about 0.5 ml, then wait half an hour and feed some peas and then the meds. The nystatin does not get absorbed into the body, it only needs to coat the throat and crop area. If he has a yeast infection, the meds will only make things worst. If he has canker, he might develop a yeast infection cause of the meds. Lets hear what the other members suggest.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you want to give the Nystatin, I would feed in the morning and give the Metro, as I really think he has canker and hasn't been getting any treatment the way you were giving it. He needs it now. Then I usually give the Nystatin an hour or two before feeding or medicating, to give it time to work on an empty crop. So I would get him started on the Metro right away, once daily, in the morning after feeding. Feed the 50 peas twice a day. I would wait to give the Nystatin the next day an hour before feeding and Metro.
I would give Nystatin 1/3 of a 1cc syringe twice daily Morning and afternoon.
If he has a yeast infection, the Nystatin will help, but if he has canker and not treated, he will likely die. Canker is one of the most common of pigeon illnesses. I have seen that so often, and treating for both is a good idea.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi, I have hand fed the pigeon this morning as well.

The first thing I did was to give him fresh ACV and Multi-Vitamin water this morning which he drank in plenty. After that I hand fed him 50 or so green peas. Right after hand feeding him I gave him Metronidazole in the amount you mentioned (50 - 60 mg hand fed into the mouth). 

I plan to start giving him nystatin early tomorrow morning. 

One positive is that the poop has changed from yesterday as it has some faeces now (may be due to hand feeding). But the faeces is still green. Also the pigeon ocassionally is trying to feed by itself by moving seeds in the feeding bowl with his mouth (before he would not even touch it).

When I feed him nystatin tomorrow morning, should I mix it with water or do I put the suspension in his mouth through dropper / syringe?

Many thanks for your advice,
S_B


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The poo will be dark green when on a pea diet. Once he starts eating seeds, the colour will change to normal.

You can give the Nystatin with a medicine dropper into the mouth, no need to mix with water.

Hope he gets better soon.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi,

I have continued giving treatment 2nd day running with the following:-

1. Nystatin in the morning 1 hour before feeding. 1/3 of 1cc syringe.
2. Handfeeding 50 green peas
3. Giving metronidazole right after feeding.
4. ACV and multivitamin mixed in water.

What is noticeable is that the pigeon tried to eat by itself today. But did not eat much. 

However, last night which was the first day of its treatment, the pigeon vomited some of the peas which I gave him.

I have the following questions:-

1. Should I continue Nystatin even tomorrow morning?
2. From the beginning of the disease, a foul smell is coming from its mouth but I believe it has reduced by a small bit. What is the small about?

Best,
Shirazi_Bunch


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can give the Nystatin every day while he's still on the antibiotics. A foul smell from the mouth can also be a sign of canker, if it starts getting less then it's an improvement already.

Good sign he shows interest in the seeds. Hopefully he will start eating by himself in the next couple of days, then you'll know the treatment is working.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, the smell is probably the canker. Canker will make a pigeon vomit, but unfortunately Metro can too. Here we would give Pepto Bismol about 30 minutes before feeding and medicating. Works pretty well to control vomiting.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi,

It is the 3rd day of treatment with metro and 2nd day with nystatin. The pigeon has shown the following symptoms today:

a. The pigeon is aggressively looking to eat on its own. Should I stop hand feeding now?

b. The pigeon looks ok somewhat after 3 days of metro. Should I stop metro now since I am worried I may overdose him if I continue to give him metro for next 5 days also?

c. I got a metronidazole suspension from the market which I am planning to give instead of taking the burden of breaking a 400mg tablet into 50mg pieces. Have you got any suggestions about the dosage of metro suspension (I have a 1cc syringe)? 

Thank you. I will keep you updated.

-Best,
Shirazi_Bunch


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shirazi_Bunch said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is the 3rd day of treatment with metro and 2nd day with nystatin. The pigeon has shown the following symptoms today:
> 
> ...


................................................................................................


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

I noticed that the pigeon has eaten like 20-26 seeds. So I fed only metro today and did not hand feed.

My metro suspension is such that in 5 cc there are 200 mg of metro, so I divided 5 ml into 4 parts which is 1.25cc and fed it to the pigeon. So I am giving it suspension now.

Dear Jay, what does aspirate mean in terms of pigeons. I do not know.

Best


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Aspirate is letting the liquid go down the wrong tube and into the lungs. You can kill her that way.
20 to 26 seeds are not enough. The bird will starve and get weaker. Also, the Metro should be given after feeding enough.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Thanks Jay for your advice, looks like the bird is feeding seeds from time to time, and not in one go. So all through the day today it is feeding seeds. Do I still need to hand feed before metro.

I hope I do not aspirate the pigeon. Is there a way to understand whether the pigeon has aspirated or not?

Best,
Shirazi Bunch


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you send it down the wrong way, he will probably cough, or he could struggle to breath and breath with open beak. You won't be able to do anything to help him, that's why tablets are easier. 
I would feed peas before medicating him. I don't think that he is probably eating enough. When they are not feeling well, and also when on Metro, they often don't eat enough.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi,

Thanks to all your valuable advice the pigeon looks much better now. Special thanks to Jay 3 and Marina. 

We have a new problem as the female pigeon has laid eggs today. Since the male is still under treatment in a separate place, should I keep the female as she is or do I place the male in the same cage as the female. 

I should say we completed 5 days of metro and we still have 3 days to go. We completed 4 days of nystatin and have 4 more days left.

Best


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Great that he's improving. I would still keep him seperate until you're sure he's 100% fine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Marina is right. Keep them separate. His health and the health of his mate is the more important thing.


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

The pigeon looks much better. His health is surely improving. He is no more energy less and does not sit around fluffing his feathers all time. Now he is excited, makes a lot of noise when he sees his pair nearby.

But one thing that worries me is the foul smell that still comes from his mouth. Is it sour crop? I am feeding him nystatin but I saw some videos in youtube where people are cleaning the crop of the pigeon. I have never done that and not sure whether I can do it. Should I try to do that? On the other hand, will sour crop cure itself?

Right now I am not even sure if it is sour crop or not. The videos in youtube show that the crops of those pigeons have bulged out but my pigeon's crop looks normal. It is big but normal for the crop size of male kin pigeons. So not sure if it is sour crop or not. Other than that the pigeon looks absolutely fine.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is he pooping? If sour crop, the crop isn't emptying, so the bird would not be making many droppings. Canker has a bad smell, and that is more than likely what it is. Do not try to empty the crop. If food is going in, but the bird isn't having droppings, you would know it. Put a few drops of apple cider vinegar in the drinking water if you have it there. 
How much Metro is he getting?


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## Shirazi_Bunch (Jan 30, 2017)

Hi,

The pigeon is pooping fine. Its poop is regular, albeit the amount is big. There is large faeces, urates, and it is also very watery (it drinks a lot of water). 

Right now I am giving 60-80mg of metro, since it is a king pigeon and its has a good weight.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would give 50 to 60 mg if he is that large. Would be easier if you had a weight on him though. They do drink a lot with canker. I have had to take the water away and offer it to them several times a day, and not let them over drink, as some will just drink so much that they over fill their crop with water. They can't eat when they do that, as the crop is so full of water, and they can aspirate if it all comes back up. They also drink a lot with cocci. I use Coximed, which is given once, then 10 days later. And treat for canker in between. That's if there is a question of cocci also. I'm pretty sure you are dealing with canker.


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