# Darkest day of my life.



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

The neighbors called this morning as a group and have called the county and are demanding I get rid of my pigeons. I have no choice. I need help relocating them. Can anyone help me? I can't move. I don't have the money. I just want to lay down and die.

EDIT: This may not be as bad as it sounds, and I don't have to get rid of all of them. Sorry to sound so dramatic, I was just really devastated at first before I sat down and figured some things out. . .with the help of people on here.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Are there any city ordinances about it, one way or the other? For instance, we can keep up to 100 of them here in Tulsa. If the law's on your side, then maybe your neighbors will just have to let it go.

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

WHAT??? What the hell brought this on??? Has this been going on for a while and we didn't know? Or maybe I should say "I"..........I can't keep up with ALL the threads. Why do you have no choice? Can you fight this? Sorry for all the questions.......it's just that this is a BIG shock, to me anyway.
I'm so sorry, but surely there must be something that you can do? 
God........people are SO SORRY and NOSY these days............... 
I just can't imagine that someone called and said "you gotta get rid of your birds" and you said "ok"..........and that's the end of story.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here is a link to your municipal code (complete with search):

http://nt2.scbbs.com/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=52012&infobase=procode-1&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg

Pidgey


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Pidgey, that's for Santa Cruz, I am in Sonoma County. I can't find the regulations for here. The neighbors really complained. They have already called the county. My mom is worried that they will take her cats as we have more than the alloted amount. She has lived here for twenty years and until now has had good neighbor relations. Since I moved the birds I guess the neighbors got together. I can't even move them back to the other side of the yard, as the rudest and worst neighbor lives nearer to that side and she said absolutely not. She said she has hated their cooing for the two and a half years I've been here and can't take it anymore. She has basically promised to make my mom's life hell unless the birds go, and threatened about the cats (which don't even go in her yard with her nasty dog) and Finn barking though he hasn't done that in awhile. With that, it doesn't matter if I'm legally allowed to have them or not. I don't know what to do. I have too many to find homes for. I can't believe this is happening. If I could just find someone to take them while I can find a place, then I could take them back. This is so overwhelming.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

maryjane said:


> Pidgey, that's for Santa Cruz, I am in Sonoma County. I can't find the regulations for here. The neighbors really complained. They have already called the county. My mom is worried that they will take her cats as we have more than the alloted amount. She has lived here for twenty years and until now has had good neighbor relations. Since I moved the birds I guess the neighbors got together. I can't even move them back to the other side of the yard, as the rudest and worst neighbor lives nearer to that side and she said absolutely not. She said she has hated their cooing for the two and a half years I've been here and can't take it anymore. She has basically promised to make my mom's life hell unless the birds go, and threatened about the cats (which don't even go in her yard with her nasty dog) and Finn barking though he hasn't done that in awhile. With that, it doesn't matter if I'm legally allowed to have them or not. I don't know what to do. I have too many to find homes for. I can't believe this is happening.


Oh, sorry, still sleepy from a cold! You're out in the county? Or within city corporation limits? How many pigeons?

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have a garage you can put the birds in?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I can't believe it either MJ, and I would feel the same as you, I would want to lay down and die. But, even the county has to give you reasonable time to rehome the birds, don't they? I think I would call the county myself and speak to someone in authority there and ask what provisions if any there are, Pidgey is right, you might even be able to keep them despite your neighbors, and maybe you can keep a few, indoors. If there is no regulation against having them, they can't make you get rid of them is what I'm saying, despite how much neighbors complain....you said you can't find the regulations, so I am assuming that no one from the county has actually told you what they are, yet? 

I just hate mean people. I hope there is a special place for them all to share some day. I can't think of what to say, I'm speechless. This knocked the wind out of me.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*city code*

http://qcode.us/codes/santarosa/

I am reading but have yet to find the statute that would prohibit your birds. As long as they do not poop in neighbors yard you should be fine so far

joe


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

I to am so sorry for the problems you have encountered!! It is NOT easy to have neighbor problems, I do know that from experience. I hope all works out. Have you consulted an attorney? Neighbors like that can make life miserable if they want too, mainly because they have too much time on their hands. Hope things work out for you, will be thinking of you, Sue

I hope your neighbor doesn't have a bird feeder. Who would she blame if a wild bird pooped on her porch? Maybe you should tell her to get a GOOD CAMERA so she can prove it is your pigeons causing *her* problems.

Listen to Joe. It sounds like he knows what he's talking about!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

We're within city limits. There are at least 30, closer to 40 I'm sure. I don't have a garage to put them in, it's full of storage stuff and my mom's car. My mom is on my side in general, but has gone above and beyond what most people would do when their daughter moves back in with a bunch of pigeons. She does not want to have to deal with the neighbors complaining for who-knows how many more years she'll be here. 

My mom just came in and said if we can find out that they are legal to have for sure, then if I will narrow them down to a dozen or so then she will tell the neighbor to eat it (that's not exactly what she said, ahem). So I guess I need homes for 20-30 of them, very soon. And we have to move them back to the other side. Then I will have to decide who to keep, my originals and those attached to me like Mrs. Bird, of course. I really need info on the legal codes. All I can find is crap by keywording it. This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for everyone's help.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*Again not licensed in michigan and not giving legal advice but as friend*

In my reading of the statute you can keep the birds provided they are not used for work or food. That would bring them under the livestock definition 7-04.010 Definitions and would prohibit them from being in the city without a zoning variance. Otherwise they are viewed as pets Domestic animal” means any animal customarily kept by humans for companionship, including, but not limited to: dogs, cats, birds, rabbits, hamsters, mice, turtles and the like.
. Now the problem is if you have the birds overcrowded and then you are in violation of the pet overcrowding provision. You must also prevent them from pooping on others property 7-28.010 . AGain not licensed in california and not giving my legal opinion but from a layperson looking at statute those would be the provisons i would look at.

joe


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

KO Loft said:


> http://qcode.us/codes/santarosa/
> 
> I am reading but have yet to find the statute that would prohibit your birds. As long as they do not poop in neighbors yard you should be fine so far
> 
> joe


I haven't found anything either. Unless they can show in black and white why you CAN NOT have your birds..........I'd tell 'em where they can go.  
Not really..(well I probably would and then get in trouble) .......but I do think, from what I read, that you have a fighting chance. Maybe agree to cut down on the numbers. How many birds do you have exactly? How close are your neighbors?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

20-42.040 Animal keeping. 
Animal keeping shall comply with the requirements of this Section, where allowed by Division 2 (Zoning Districts and Allowable Land Uses).

A. The care and keeping of any animal shall comply with the provisions of City Code Title 7 and all applicable provisions of this Zoning Code. 

B. On any lot in a residential zoning district, or in conjunction with any residential use in any other district, a total of five animals (domestic or exotic) may be kept on one lot, of which not more than three may be dogs, and not more than one may be a pot-bellied pig. 

C. Where allowed by Division 2 (Zoning Districts and Allowable Land Uses), livestock farming shall be limited to the raising, feeding, maintaining, and breeding of livestock, subject to a minimum 20,000 square foot gross lot area and the following cumulative limitations and conditions:

1. One hog or pig per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area; or

2. One horse or mule or cow or steer per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area;

3. 25 chickens per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area; or

4. Three goats or sheep or similar livestock per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area; or

5. 10 ducks or rabbits or similar livestock per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area; or

6. Twenty-five pigeons or 50 ornamental or song birds per each 20,000 square feet of gross lot area.

The lot area used to justify one class of animals shall not be used concurrently to justify another class of animals. 

(Ord. 3677 § 1 (part), 2004)


Pidgey


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Mary Jane,

Just this morning I was looking at your pictures and stories. I enjoyed them so much.

I read the darkest day caption and chose to skip it not knowing that it was started by you. When I saw your name pains just shot through my body. Oh no ...not you.

Pidgey, I guess you can have 5 cats in a residential zone.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Im pretty sure they can only do anything if your birds are a nuisance. If there not going into your neighbors yards or on their homes I don't think they have much say. A dog barking for example... animal enforcement can fine you possibly for a complaint/ none compliance with a regulation but they can't make you get rid of your dog.

I would not even worry about your neighbors, also if they threaten you or your mom let the law know. 

Also keep your cats inside some of the neighbors might dislike the cats and if your mom is already over a legal limit no need to draw further attention.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Thank you Joe, there are no overcrowding problems and the birds do not fly free so they don't poop anywhere but their aviary, which I clean religiously so there is no smell or anything. Renee, I have 30-40, don't know exactly. I don't know how to even decide which ones to keep. They're all special to me. I hate to think of them anywhere after they've enjoyed their home here for so long. And there is no one I know locally that keeps pigeons anymore to give some to. The neighbors are nearby, just on the other side of the fence. I will agree to cut down numbers (I don't see that I have any choice) and then they will have to deal with it. My closest neighbors on the side where the birds used to be, and will be put again, like them so that's a plus. Now I just need homes for a whole bunch of them.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

maryjane said:


> We're within city limits. There are at least 30, closer to 40 I'm sure. I don't have a garage to put them in, it's full of storage stuff and my mom's car. My mom is on my side in general, but has gone above and beyond what most people would do when their daughter moves back in with a bunch of pigeons. She does not want to have to deal with the neighbors complaining for who-knows how many more years she'll be here.
> 
> My mom just came in and said if we can find out that they are legal to have for sure, then if I will narrow them down to a dozen or so then she will tell the neighbor to eat it (that's not exactly what she said, ahem). So I guess I need homes for 20-30 of them, very soon. And we have to move them back to the other side. Then I will have to decide who to keep, my originals and those attached to me like Mrs. Bird, of course. I really need info on the legal codes. All I can find is crap by keywording it. This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Thank you so much for everyone's help.



I LIKE your Mom........my kind of lady.  I believe that if no one can show you that you CAN'T have them, then that's just a good. Joe quoted word for word what the ORDINANCE says is considered a domestic animal and BIRD was included. You MAY have to cut down the numbers, but I don't see you having to give them all up completely. I personally don't see you having to cut down the numbers, but that might be a "good will gesture" on your part, to help appease the NOSEY neighbors.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*re legal*

Ahem again not licensed to practice in cali so not giving legal advice but advice to a friend ...but.....

One potential problem is if pigeons in the city have had a case before and a precedent was set. Then you might have a problem but as afriend reading the statute and not as a lawyer you should stand up for your rights. If problem goes to city contact these people for help :ACLU (quiet enjoyment of property), Humane society, and also a local pigeon club. They might also want to join in legal action because then their rights would also be effected. Years ago in city of where our loft was located they wanted to do same thing. Fanciers from city fought back and while no new birds were allowed all rest were grandfathered in as being allowed as long as they didnt violate overcrowding and other local ordinances on books at that time.

joe


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you have any idea how big your lot is?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, do any of the neighbors in question do anything that might not be in accordance with zoning laws?

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Did you read Pidgey's previous post? I missed it, but just saw it. Interesting. I don't see where they have a leg to stand on, except for the NUMBER of pigeons.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It might be possible to add sound-proofing to the wall that's near the worst neighbor, too.

Pidgey


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I somehow missed a bunch of posts. Thank you again to everyone who is helping me find ordinances and everything. My "loft" is my tent, which is 17'x7'x6'. Most of the pigeons are in there, a few are in the smaller aviary which is 10'x5'x6'. Fussy Gussy is also a main problem with her constant racket, she is a very noisy chicken. How do I find out what zone I am in? If I am in "Division 2" I can have 25 pigeons, according to what you posted, Pidgey. I don't know what Division I am in or how to find out. Man do I have a freakin' headache. The neighbors don't do anything illegal as far as I know. This just kills me, as we have had neighbors before who rented and were up all hours, working on cars, making drugs in the garage, who the heck knows what else. No one complained about them. And this horrible yappy dog that barks 24 hours a day, who can hear my pigeons over that?? I'm sure they complained to the shelter as we did and were told basically, too bad. So now they're settling in on me. This lady is retired and is mean as can be. I hope karma has something extra special planned for her. I don't know where in the world I'm going to place some of them. I feel really bad.


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*great catch pidgey*

and that is what is key ..what zone you are in and how much space is in your back yard.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

We have a lot of space in the backyard, don't know measurements but it is very large. It's almost as big as the dog park run (which means nothing if you haven't seen the dog park of course). I think I will have to just hope some people out of town will be able to help out and then ship them, I guess. I never thought this would happen, which is dumb, and I should have made some sort of arrangements before now. I just never expected this, especially after a few years here.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might have to go down to the county courthouse and look up your mom's place to find out what zoning you're under. That'd have to wait until Monday at the soonest, I expect. You may also need to change the zoning, if you're not already under Division 2. You might be able to step off the lot to figure out how big it is.

Pidgey


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Pidgey, do you have a link for that information you found? I tried to google it and got a bunch of nonsense stuff. I will need to print it up from the source to use I think. Thanks again, I don't know what I would do without you all.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Where I live pigeons are considered livestock. I don't live in a farming zone, therefore cannot have a pigeon closed in.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This link might work:

http://qcode.us/codes/santarosa/view.php?topic=20-4-20_42-20_42_040&highlightWords=pigeons&frames=on

Pidgey


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

maryjane said:


> The neighbors called this morning as a group and have called the county and are demanding I get rid of my pigeons. I have no choice. I need help relocating them. Can anyone help me? I can't move. I don't have the money. I just want to lay down and die.


 I quickly went through these posts, but I can't determine how a complaint has resulted in the local goverment demanding the removing of your birds ?  

I will go back and read these posts, but I hope you don't over react. I don't have any quick advice, but I am curious as to how this all came about ? There are always things which we can all learn from such an experience. I will be hoping that in the end, things here turn out well.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I don't think the "local government" HAS stepped in. I think an overbearing neighbor(s) would LIKE them to, have entreated them to, and are hoping that the THREAT of same will be enough to cause MaryJane to give up her birds.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm really reacting to this, Mary Jane, because I have a similar situation with a neighbor across the street. I have gotten around it by keeping the pigeons in the garage. I had to clean it out to put them in there. It's not ideal by any means and I could easily be in your situation. 
Feel free to take a drive up I-5 and bring me your hen. I have a permit to have 5 and I only have 4 at the time. I would treat her like a queen.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

maryjane said:


> .... This lady is retired and is mean as can be. I hope karma has something extra special planned for her......


Gee.....what is her name and address and phone number ? Maybe I know her....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pidgey said:


> Oh, I don't think the "local government" HAS stepped in. I think an overbearing neighbor(s) would LIKE them to, have entreated them to, and are hoping that the THREAT of same will be enough to cause MaryJane to give up her birds.
> 
> Pidgey


Hello Pidgey,

Then if it were me, I would dedicate the rest of my life to making their lives an absolute living hell.... 

But, that is me....and as some of my friends can attest to, I don't have no problem doing hard time !!...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I'm afraid I'd have to start playing hardball as well, Warren.

Pidgey


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## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

*A lesson for all and why we should show solidarity*

I just got back from the NPA Grand National Pigeon Show here in michigan and talked with a fancier who resides in the city that was the former city to our loft. We had pressure to move out but were grandfathered in, but others did not think they had to worry because neighbors were not bothering them. Once though a complaint is made it will be applied to all fanciers and not just the one with the problem neighbor and unless you are grandfathered in you might find yourself in hot water later. Do not think so ...

I represented a lady in michigan that had neighborhood association complain about her dogs being over the limit. She was in violation of a covenant on deed restricting number of dogs. We asked another neighbor to come to our defense but she said it was our problem not hers...I heard through the grapevine that she is now the target of association. Hiding does not eliminate the problem, only potential allies. 

Do not let them make you give up your birds until the city says you must, and even then find the loophole that lets you keep your birds.

joe


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

If it were up to ME, I would be playing hardball and then some. I have to respect my mom as this is her house and she has lived here for 20+ years and plans to live here for many more. I never planned on being here for so long, but with my hip problems I haven't been able to work and therefore haven't been able to move out. This same neighbor had complaints about a stray cat we started feeding (as it was STARVING) four years ago. She called day and night to complain for months about the cat being near her house, even though it wasn't technically even our cat. She has a big, mean dog and my indoor/outdoor cats know good and well not to go near that yard. Most of the cats are indoor cats only and wouldn't dream of going outside. This witch has nothing to do but harass people. My mom just doesn't want to be getting calls day and night again as it drove her crazy when the neighbor did it before about the stray cat. I don't blame her for that.

If I am in Division 2, then I can (and will) have 25 pigeons. If it were up to me I would have a few choice words for the neighbor and then do what I want anyway. I have to see what division we're in. I can't find a map or anything which says which one I'm in. That still leaves me with several to re-home, if I can keep 25. Thank you for your very kind offer for Fussy Gussy, Charis. I know she would have a wonderful home with you.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

maryjane said:


> (I don't see that I have any choice)


Unless/until the OFFICIAL word from your city or county is that you have no choice..you do.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

TheSnipes said:


> Unless/until the OFFICIAL word from your city or county is that you have no choice..you do.


That is true. I was so upset to begin with because they told my mom when they called earlier that they had already talked to the county and that the county had said I couldn't have them. Of course now I find out that's not true.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Lets all hope for Division 2!


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## jack1747 (Sep 16, 2007)

wow, your county office is open on saturday. Funny how noisy people always get involved on weekends when you can't reach anybody.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

If you were guilty of a violation, the county or city would contact you. It is NOT the domain of a nosy neighbor to carry out the county's instructions. They took that upon themselves and for all we know, they are only hoping that you go along. The county may well have told them - there is no regulation against pigeons, sorry. Pretty much the same thing they told you about barking dogs, in other words. I can not imagine that a pigeon would be seem to be more of a nuisance than a dog. It might be wise to try and find a helpful person at your local gov't office on Monday, hopefully you will encounter someone sympathetic. 

My sister has had no end of trouble wiht a certain crabby neighbor over her rescue dogs. He complains incessantly and the truth is, behind hsi back, the township officials are all on her side. They, and the people at the county level, appreciate the efforts of people like her to assist in managing and rehoming unwanted animals. At any rate, they are very sympathetic toward her and share her regard for the bothersome neighbor as the real nuisance. In many cases, as in hers, there is no need to enforce any action till there's a complaint. So you might just have to wait and see if someone from the local gov't offices calls on you. Maybe no one will.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I just finished reading this MJ - I am just sooooo sorry to hear about all this! I do just hate it when neighbors gang up  I understand how you feel being that it's your Mom's house too. What a very tough situation.

Personally, I would go to the county office(s) in person Monday morning, find out the Division you're in and speak with official(s) about the ordiance. If you call it's going to much more difficult cause you'll get transfered all over the place. Plus, psychologically it's better for "the powers that be" to have a face to put with the name if the neighbors are complaining so much. 

Just curious - when you say "a group of neighbors" called - do you how many are in this group? 

I wish I were closer geographically so I could do more to help out.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> If you were guilty of a violation, the county or city would contact you. It is NOT the domain of a nosy neighbor to carry out the county's instructions. They took that upon themselves and for all we know, they are only hoping that you go along. The county may well have told them - there is no regulation against pigeons, sorry. Pretty much the same thing they told you about barking dogs, in other words. I can not imagine that a pigeon would be seem to be more of a nuisance than a dog. It might be wise to try and find a helpful person at your local gov't office on Monday, hopefully you will encounter someone sympathetic.
> 
> My sister has had no end of trouble wiht a certain crabby neighbor over her rescue dogs. He complains incessantly and the truth is, behind hsi back, the township officials are all on her side. They, and the people at the county level, appreciate the efforts of people like her to assist in managing and rehoming unwanted animals. At any rate, they are very sympathetic toward her and share her regard for the bothersome neighbor as the real nuisance. In many cases, as in hers, there is no need to enforce any action till there's a complaint. So you might just have to wait and see if someone from the local gov't offices calls on you. Maybe no one will.


Stuff like this makes me so mad I can't see straight, much less think straight!! Snipes is correct. I went back and read you very first post. You said the neighbors called? The hell with them. When you get a call from an official, THEN, worry about what you need to do to fix whatever they say is wrong, IF anything is wrong at all. I would NOT make any calls to anyone. Make them come to YOU. I'd just bide my time......make arrangements for "just in case"........but I sure wouldn't go looking for trouble. 
If there's a problem with you having birds and the neighbors really DO complain, you'll know soon enough. Who's to say they REALLY called. They might just be blowing smoke up "you know where"..........


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Mary Jane,

I just caught up with your thread. I am just sick about what is happening. DO NOT GIVE IN WITHOUT A FIGHT!!! Even city/county staff will try to pressure you to keep this neighbor from nagging them even if you are within your rights. Find out your rights.

First of all, you live in the city of Santa Rosa. The city code will take precedent over the county code. So you need to find out what the city code on keeping pets says about pigeons.

Second, find some local pigeon people in SR. There must be a club in your area and among them are people who keep pigeons in the city. If any one knows the rules they will. I think the AU Racing site can tell you the names of clubs near you where you can find pigeon people. Might be an all breeds club near you as well.

Go to the county recorders office. They will have the information on the size of your property. Can't recall if SR or Sonoma is your county seat. You might have to make a run over to Sonoma if there isn't a local office in SR.

Don't get rid of a single bird until your find out what your rights really are. As far as the neighbor, if she starts calling, tell her if she keeps it up you are going to sue her for harrassment and that you are recording her calls to turn over to the authorities.

The birds are not a nuisance. They do not go on to or impact her property. They do not violate the noise ordinance I'm sure. I have about forty and forty pigeons are NOT loud.

Grrrrrr. I'm really annoyed at the gall of this neighbor. As far as the cats, hide em if anyone comes snooping around. And the city can't just march on to your property cause they feel like it.

Keep us notified and keep your chin up.

Hugs, Margaret


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Goodness, I just read this too! We are all with you Maryjane, and Margaret, I second that motion!*


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry this is happening, MJ. I've had neighbor trouble a couple of times and managed to keep my birds here .. mostly because this one neighbor is pretty much an a** and annoys just about everyone and also because the city and county know me and appreciate that I regularly bail them out by taking so many calls and birds from the public. If it weren't for the city and county "backing" me, I would be done for as it would be very difficult (if not impossible) for me to meet primarily the requirement for how far away from neighbors the birds/animals have to be as well as the number of critters that are here.

I would suggest that you really, really research and do your homework about the ordinances. If you do end up talking with the city and/or county, you are likely to find that the person you are talking with has no real clue about what is really in the ordinances. 

I had a code enforcement officer stop by a year or so ago to tell me that a neighbor had complained about the noise that Lucas (cockatoo) makes. I knew for a fact that there was no code regarding parrot noise and only a general noise ordinance, and when I "challenged" the man on the fact that there is no parrot ordinance and that the noise Lucas makes does not come even close to the decibel level in the noise ordinance, the officer just kind of shrugged and left.

A further suggestion would be for one of us to call your city or county (whichever one would have the authority in this situation) and pose as someone thinking about moving into the area and wanting to know ALL the animal related requirements .. how many dogs, cats, what kind and how many birds allowed and so one. If the person calling gets someone that really knows your local code, then we probably have the answers needed. If the person calling gets someone who is clueless, then that is pretty useful information also. If someone does call, they need to be asking about the specific area you live in .. not your actual address but a close enough area where we can be sure that whatever is found out would apply to you.

I'm suggesting that someone other than you test the waters first simply because it is quite possible that the neighbors are indeed blowing smoke.

Terry


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Renee, you are so right! I once had a neighbor much like MJ's. He complained that my dog jumped a 8 foot high solid wood fence to chase his cows, and we had snow, but oddly enough, no tracks. He did call the police, and the officer just scratched his head: "did they fly? there are no tracks!" Needless to say, the neighbor continued his complaining, but never had anyone listen to him since! *STAND YOUR GROUND MJ!* 

If I had listened to my crabby neighbor, he wanted me to get rid of my dogs. My dogs never went onto his property, and they were not a nuisance. To make a long story short, DON'T get rid of your birds unless you _HAVE_ too. I was told by my Vet, that if everyone took care of their dogs like I did, he would be out of a job. 

DON'T GIVE UP WITHOUT A FIGHT... You may just have to find out YOUR rights, and believe me, there is no sweeter revenge, when you find out *YOU *are in the right, *YOU* have done nothing wrong, and all you have is a nosy neighbor. Hang in there. Monday isn't far away. Neighbors can tell you almost anything they want. Doesn't mean it is true. They don't make the laws.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I can't believe what I'm reading. I'm so sorry to hear your neighbors are so mean, Maryjane.

I agree that you have to stand your ground and hopefully the law is on your side, these people just may be trying to bully you, Maryjane.

Sending positive thoughts your way!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Maryjane, I hardly know what to say. When I read your opening sentence, I cringed. We love your birds too - big old Betty Boop, Fussy Gussy, the Monsters, Hawk Emu and all the others. I mean, we know them by name for heaven's sake. And to think that some nitwit is doing this to you makes me sick.

I don't have the smarts to help you with things like ordinances, but it seems mighty funny to me that she would approach your Mother on a Saturday knowing full well there is not much you can do about it on the weekend. That is cruel in itself.

All I can do is offer my love and concern.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

That is such terrible thing to happen to you. That woman seems insane and she should be locked away in my opinion. Don’t get intimidated by the situation because I think that no matter where you live in this world you are bound to have neighbours like that and no matter what you do someone at some time will have something against you. If is not one thing then there is another. Is just the natural course of life.
I am sorry to sound so bad but it just gets me really annoyed that you have to give up your birds.	I love to see the pictures and they look so happy.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Margarret said:


> Mary Jane,
> 
> I just caught up with your thread. I am just sick about what is happening. DO NOT GIVE IN WITHOUT A FIGHT!!! Even city/county staff will try to pressure you to keep this neighbor from nagging them even if you are within your rights. Find out your rights.
> 
> ...


Just my 2 cents, MJ! I, too was shocked by your thread. Yet, I'm not surprised...there seem to be people who seem to have nothing better to do than cause trouble _and_ may possibly be mentally unstable.

I can understand your concern living with your Mom too.

I join my fellow members in advising *DO NOT PANIC. 

FIND OUT YOUR RIGHTS.*

Finally, I agree with Margaret's comments about letting that neighbor know the next time she calls about harrassment and recording the conversation. *BUT, be nice*. If she _insists_ on being nasty, just say something like, "I have heard what you have to say and am looking into my legal options and rights. I have to hang up now." AND DO...*Do not argue with this neighbor. She won't listen.*

*WE ARE ALL WITH YOU!*

LOVE AND HUGS

SHI


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I am so sorry about your situation Maryjane, I will say a few prayers for you and the situation. I absolutely hate neighbors like that, seems like they have it in for one person. Next month or year it will be someone else. Good Luck!!!


Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is a very frustrating situation, I've been there a couple of times and I had to move. I know that isn't a solution for you right now, but just wanted to say that there is always a solution. Hang in there, hope all this will go away very soon.
You've received great advice here. Best of luck.

Reti


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Thanks everyone, it means so much to me that I have you all as a "support group". My mom and I have talked about it and she thinks it's reasonable for me to keep the 25 that I'm alloted, that way there is no issue at all. I was planning on doing a small soft-release in the warmer weather, mostly for some of the feral babies I took last summer. I think Fussy Gussy and the doves make the most noise and are what the major "noise" complaint is about. I have found a wonderful lady who has offered to take Fussy Gussy, and she keeps some of her chickens in the house as pets, and her daughter has a very tame pet chicken, and this woman has three separate aviaries for her ten chickens in order to avoid a "pecking order". She would put Fussy Gussy with her nicest two hens and she also has big, enclosed area for nice weather where the chickens go out in turns to peck in the grass and dirt. I think Fussy Gussy would really like it. She makes an awful lot of fuss and I have been worried that she just doesn't seem too happy, no matter what I do to make her environment better. I feel really good about this lady and her family, I have talked with her and she obviously loves and spoils her chickens very much. So that is a big, big help, and I think will really be best for Fussy Gussy, especially with an outdoor area and a cozy locked coop at night.

I will go Monday and see what I can find out. I am pretty sure I can have 25 pigeons here. I never knew there was a limit, which I should have checked into. When I first started keeping pigeons, I asked and found out they were allowed in city limits, but I didn't check how many, which was dumb. 
 25 seems a reasonable amount and that would make my mom and me feel better about not breaking any laws. . .most of all because the neighbor will just have to deal with it as there's nothing she can do.

It was two of the neighbors that called; one nicer lady who lives right next to where the pigeons were moved to. She said she never heard them on the other side of the yard and if we could move them back there, that's just fine with her. It's the other crazy mean lady behind us who is causing the big stink. She also complained when she called about the noise the puppies made when we had them (though they were in the bedroom with the window closed for the cold weather), as well as a cat she thought was ours but isn't. She just likes to complain. I feel like calling her and saying, ya know, God don't like ugly! Here I am helping needy animals and she's interfering, that can't go over to well with the powers-that-be.  

My mom did tell her that it will take a few weeks or a month to move them and reduce numbers. I think my own experiences with renting in apartments (as many of you can relate to) has set me up to really fear this kind of thing, and I overreacted in the beginning. It was just so devastating to wake up and have this immediately to deal with, and it sounded of course like "neighbors called, said the county will get involved if you don't get rid of your pigeons". Not that my mom put it that way, that's just all I could hear. It was really a big shock. One thing I've always loved about living here is not worrying about someone "finding out" about my pigeons (as I worried all the time in apartments, of course). So it was a heavy blow to hear when I thought all was well and safe. But, I think it will be okay.

*Sorry to alarm and upset anyone with my title, it really felt that way when I posted it!!!!*

So keep an ear out for anyone who does want to adopt some from me. As you know, they're all great birds.  And I haven't had anyone sick since before Christmas, they are all healthy looking and acting.* Thanks again for all your help, ideas, and support!!!! You guys are THE BEST friends ever.*


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad to hear things are settling down a bit. It sounds like a wonderful solution to place some of your birds in new homes. It sounds like Fussy Gussy will have the perfect home and company so she won't be lonely.

I hope you can get a good night's sleep now, and don't worry anymore. You got loads of friends here too!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hey there, MJ...we don't TAKE KINDLY to meanies harassing our beloved members! 

Especially since you certainly meant no harm and are a WONDERFUL "MOM!" 

So glad to hear that Fussy Gussy will have A GREAT HOME!!

Keep us updated, please...

With LOVE, HUGS & SCRITCHES

Shi & Squeaks


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

MJ, Sounds like you are feeling much better. I hope you get a good nights sleep tonight, and Monday will be nice and sunny day for you. Keep us posted, please. Glad to hear you are alright. I think we should all do some homework on our own ordinances in our area. Might be kinda helpful just in case......


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## maranda (Nov 18, 2007)

This reminds me how great it is to live in the country! 
If you do have to part with any of your birds,hopefully you can find someone near by so you can visit them.Hopefully all goes well.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm happy you have a plan. You must be exhausted.
Hey...maybe you should move to Oregon...just not my neighborhood because I have a Troll across the street.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm glad to hear you're feeling a bit more settled about all this - I think everyone of us freaked out right along with you. Good luck on Monday. Great news about Fussy... hopefully you can visit if you want  Try to sleep well tonight - like has been said already - you've got a lot of friends backing you right here!! {{{hugs}}}


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## nbdyuknow (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi Maryjane,

Wow, that's all I can say! I came to this thread late and just now read through all the posts. I agree with everything everyone else has said. You should definitely stand up for your rights and the rights of your animals, especially when they are not interferring with the rights of your neighbors. Even though I live here in Chicago, if there's anything I can do to help, just let me know. (Sophie says that goes double for her!). 

Hang in there!

Bill B.


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## horsesgot6 (May 30, 2007)

Just read This Thread And I'm Sorry To hear abot the Hateful Old Lady.. 
i Would say like Everyone Else Before You Do Anything find Out Your Rigths. i do hope all works Out for Your Birds And You. 
Plus I'd Get A Note Pad And Write Down everytime (date/Time)This lady Calls And If You Or your Mom Talks To her Be Nice And Ask Her Not To call Again And the Birds I Would Also recording the conversations. If After You Know Your Laws About The Pigeons. If She Still Keeps harassing You I'd Get A Lawyer and Sue for harrassment. Knowing Your rigths Is the Key.
I've Even had To Find Them So we could Move our Cows Accross The Road. Had A State Trooper Come Out Twice The frist Time he Stppied Into The Barn When We were Milking And Told Use that If He Saw The Cows Cross The Road He would Have To Give Use A Ticket For Blocking The Road. So I Went Online And Found the Rigth To Farming Laws And There it was In Black In White One Or More People Could Move The Cows Accross The Road So When The Second Time He Came Out The Butt That Lived Up The Road Ran Around The front Of My Truck And Hit the Wire Before I Could Get It Down ( He Only Would have Had To Wait 30sec.) we Told Him If He Moved His car It Was Leaveing The Seen. Well The Same Cop Came Out What A Nice Man He Was I Told Him What i had found With the Butts Still saying We Could Not Move Them and i went Up To the Barn And Got The Law. We Won.. 
The Butts Where Told That If They called Again They Would get A Ticket. We have To Love The Loves Sometimes...


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

"ya know, God don't like ugly!"

Hmm. I'm picturing a nicely rendered lawn "accoutrement." Situated so that it's visible to MN (Mean Neighbor) when she peers over/through the fence (as she obviously likes to do!!!)

 

I'm happy that you seem more at ease. You have a good plan and I think things will work out OK overall. This thread did inspire me to seek out my own local ordinances...unfortunately not available online. However, I am going to find out what, if anything, they say about keeping pidgies.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

MJ,

I'm sorry you're having to go through this.....I hope that it all works out in your favor.

Just wanted to mention something: as far as the harrassing neighbor with the phone calls, you may have a few options.

What has already been suggested, (keeping a log, recording the calls, etc.) is a good idea in case you would like to take some action against this neighbor. But, if you don't want to be bothered by this neighbor at all, over the phone, did you know that the phone company can "block" certain numbers from calling your phone? It's true. A coworker of mine had a daughter whose ex-boyfriend kept calling and calling. They had the phone company block his number, so everytime this guy tried to call them from his home number, the call would not go through at all to my coworker's house, and the ex would get a recording telling him that his call was blocked and would not go through. You should look into this.

OR....you could look into getting Caller ID. It is a small monthly fee and the the little box is not that expensive and believe me, this feature is worth every penny and more! If you go this route, when you see it is your neighbor calling, you simply ignore the phone call! This is a great feature, and believe me, if you decide to get it, you won't know how you ever lived without it.

Well, good luck with all of this. Even beyond the worries about what is happening with your birds, you and your Mom have the right to live in peace without constant badgering by this neighbor. If she keeps it up, I hope you guys do try to do something (like charging her w/ harrassment) to put a scare into her and hopefully shut her up. You should not have to live in fear of this woman or be constantly aggravated by her.

Linda


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Exactly. When I get my pigeons I'm planning on all of them being white. My husband insists. Because all of my neighbors are in love with the idea of "doves" in the neighborhood but not hot on pigeons.

The law here states I can have 25 total pet animals in the categories of rodents (rabbits, rats), birds not used as livestock poultry (fancy hens, doves, parrots) and the usual cat/dog combo or exotic animals such as spiders and reptiles. I intend to get nowhere near my allotment, but I do want to raise a couple of chickens so I plan on getting Silkie hens. I have already told the neighbors and they are ok with it, because they think I am getting show animals. If it's useless, it's allowed. lol. Regular old leghorn hens and roosters are not allowed in my zoning area according to the code, but I can have 5 laying show hens. I had to read so much code! The code for my area even specifies how I may house and feed and clean the animals, and waste disposal is covered as well! Did you know that throwing seed on the ground is unlawful in Mesa, but you may feed animals in a dish. So you can feed pigeons as long as you teach them table manners first.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Just thought of something else MJ... if you do record the conversations (which I think is a great idea) you need to inform her that the conversation is being recorded. At least in our state you do - otherwise it is inadmisable as evidence in a court case (not saying your situation will get to that... but better safe than sorry). Unless it's an answering machine recording. Just passing that along - I'm no lawyer, but Dave & I were involved in a two year ethics case against a lawyer and we were only able to use a recording of a conversation because we informed him.

The suggestion about keeping a written log is an excellent idea! Think you'll never forget all the details because everything is so intense right now. But when you need to detail everything a year from now you'll be very, very glad you did. Plus, it's good to be able to establish a pattern -- whether or not you ever use it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Maryjayne,

This is my worst nightmare too. I am glad you are getting it sorted. I wish I lived nearer! Now I must check whether there is a limit on the number I am allowed to keep. If there is I am bound to have exceeded it!


Cynthia


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm so sorry to hear of your neighbor problems, I know what a nuisance they can be since one of my neighbors called the town in on me and forced me to stop feeding my feral flock.
To help deter any harm to your pidgies you can also warn the neighbors you are setting up surveillance cameras and put up a few of those fake cameras with the blinking red LEDs to give the illusion of around the clock monitoring. There are plenty available and they're reasonably priced too. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=fake+surveillance+camera&category0=


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pete Jasinski said:


> I'm so sorry to hear of your neighbor problems, I know what a nuisance they can be sine one of my neighbors called the town in on me and forced me to stop feeding my feral flock.
> To help deter any harm to your pidgies you can also warm the neighbors you are setting up surveillance cameras and put up a few of those fake cameras with the blinking red LEDs to give the illusion of around the clock monitoring. There are plenty available and they're reasonably priced too. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=fake+surveillance+camera&category0=


Thanks for the link. I'm buying one.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> "ya know, God don't like ugly!"
> 
> Hmm. I'm picturing a nicely rendered lawn "accoutrement." Situated so that it's visible to MN (Mean Neighbor) when she peers over/through the fence (as she obviously likes to do!!!)
> 
> ...


Hi Snipes, I thought I was looking in the wrong place! I have been trying to find out the same info, and keep coming up blank. At least it's not me!  Tomorrow, I am going to call the Animal Control and the Courthouse, and start there. IF I find out anything, I will let ya know. I think it is a county issue? I have no idea. I did find out about dogs. LOTS of info on dogs. Nothing on birds tho. Yes, I am also doing homework on this.  will keep ya posted if I find out anything.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Thanks for all the great ideas. Those fake cameras are a good idea for anyone to have, I would think. We do have caller ID but I think her number is "caller ID blocked". I will keep a phone log if she continues to bother us. My mom told her it would be up to a month to find some homes and to move the tent back to the other side. So that should delay her nosiness for awhile.

It's funny, one of the neighbors that apparently was talking to the other two, is the one who moved in this summer with the horrible yappy dog they leave outside 24/7, in cold, rain, etc. That dog (as many of you heard me rant about lol) has kept me up many a night. When the mean neighbor mentioned that dog's owner was bothered, my mom told her more or less "Let me stop you there. . .I don't give a rat's behind about what that inconsiderate crazy woman thinks, as many nights as her dog has kept us up barking." Honestly, some people. Just no clue whatsoever. Interestingly, the "mean" neighbor who has made a bit of noise about that dog barking in the past, now told my mom that she "hardly ever hears it and it doesn't really bother her"-- yeah, now that they've ganged up on my pigeons! 

I must admit that I got a certain pleasure out of opening Fussy Gussy's aviary early this morning, so that she started her ruckus around, oh, say, seven-thirty on this nice Sunday morning. And she was really rarin' to go today! Bok bok bok BOK BOK BOK BOK BOK BAGAAAAAKKKKK! With a satisfied smug look I sat and drank my coffee and watched lights come on in the mean lady's house. I can understand why FG bothers people since she fusses so much, especially lately. But it's still fun to see the results, in a case like this. This week she will be moving to her new "farm" home and is very excited, no wonder she was up so early.  

I tried to do a really bad rendering of our property so you can kind of see how it's laid out. The green x's are grass lol. We are at the bottom of a half-court; it curves at our house into more road. So the nice neighbors in the front, are also a bit on the side but I can't get that on the map. So you can see how we're surrounded! Anyway this might make it a bit easier to see how it is.


*Dog Barkers House* * Nicer Lady's House* * Mean Lady House* 
*-----------------------------(fence)----------------------------------*
xx*TENT*xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*(my side/backyard)*xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
---------------------------------------------------xxxxxxxxx*More*xxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------xxxxxxxx*Yard*xxxxxxxxx
-------------My House------------------------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------*(Where Tent Was)*xxxx
-----------------------------------------------------*--------fence---------*
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*(front yard)*xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *(Good Neighbors House)*


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Looks like the REAL pain is in the rearEND of the house. 

Glad to hear Fussy Gussy was fussing up big early this morning and looking forward to her new home.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

MJ, Hang in there, girl! From your map, looks like you have a big yard. I surly don't see why the MN has to be that way, but I guess there is one in every neighborhood. BUMMER! But, I know what a * PITA *( Pain-In-The-A$$) a bad neighbor can be. It only takes one to wreck it for everyone. I doubt if she has any friends. Most of 'that kind don't. YOU GO GIRL!


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Maryjane I just caught this post now...
So sorry to hear about all the trouble with your neighbors. That is one of my worst nightmares, that someone will complain and try making me get rid of my birds 

I'm glad to hear that the law is more on your side than not, and that you can still at least keep some of your pigeons.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Snowbird Sue said:


> MJ, Hang in there, girl! From your map, looks like you have a big yard. I surly don't see why the MN has to be that way, but I guess there is one in every neighborhood. BUMMER! But, I know what a * PITA *( Pain-In-The-A$$) a bad neighbor can be. It only takes one to wreck it for everyone. I doubt if she has any friends. Most of 'that kind don't. YOU GO GIRL!


That's why she suddenly doesn't mind the yapping dog. She has a 'friend' now - an ally in a war against your birds. Trust me, she doesn't really have any friends. People like that don't have the capacity to form nice healthy relationships.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

*I found your MN relative!*

Hi MJ, I think I found your MN's relative today! I had to go to Wal-Mart to pick up an RX that my Dr faxed in, and there was a 'crowd' of people across from the pharmacy... I didn't think anything of it, as no one was at the counter. Sooo, I walked up to the counter, and the gal asked for my name, I gave it to her, she rang up my RX, and as I turned around to leave, walking away, I heard "NEXT TIME, WAIT YOUR TURN! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? I turned around, and there was an elderly lady AND her husband just YELLING at me! He said, "I guess they go by age now!" The lady said, "YOU BETTER WAIT IN LINE NEXT TIME! " I was *SHOCKED *at this behavior from these two people, whom I have never met. I said, "There was no one at the counter, and there was no line. I didn't do anything wrong." The woman screamed at me, "WELL, I AM TELLIING YOU NOW!" I just couldn't believe it. I looked at this lady, and said, "You know, there is no call for this behavior." She again yelled at me, "YOU BETTER WAIT YOUR TURN NEXT TIME, AND IF I'M HERE, I'LL MAKE YOU WAIT!" I was so shocked, I couldn't do any shopping at all, I just had to get out of there. I volunteer at several Senior Centers, and I have never been treated this way, have never had to deal with such rudeness. Oh, the pharmacists watched with their jaws dropped, but nobody said anything to them. They just let them rant on. I think she is related to your MN!! I think I will look for a new pharmacy. I cna't take being treated that way again. Hope all is well with you, Hang in there.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

That's just horrible!! What in the world are some people thinking?? Oh yeah. . .they're NOT THINKING! I know that feeling, when you're too upset by someone's behavior to even finish what you're in the store for. I'm sorry they were so rude. I just honestly have no idea why some people are so mean and justify it in their own minds somehow. If there was a line she should have nicely mentioned it before you picked up your meds. Try not to feel bad about it, obviously she is the crazy one and you of course did nothing wrong. Some people!!!


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi MJ! That is my whole point. There was NO LINE! There was a group of people standing in a circle, but it looked like they were talking with another couple that they knew. No, no line at all, as I ALWAYS get behind an elderly couple, and ALWAYS have let an elderly person get in front of me while in line at the grocery stores. (My Mom raised me right!) 
NOW I know where all those crabby kids are from! thanks for the note, MJ, I have a feeling she is related you your MN!!


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Snowbird Sue said:


> I think she is related to your MN!! I think I will look for a new pharmacy. I cna't take being treated that way again. Hope all is well with you, Hang in there.


Mr & Mrs Sourpuss, lol! You should have said, "Oh hello, I think I know your sister, the pigeon-hater!"


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Hi Maryjane, I have just read though your thread and am reeling that a yappie neibour is trying to get you to give up your birds, I wsh i lived near you to help you out, but most of all i would drive my tractor and slurry tanker up to the front of her house and give her all the **** she needs.I hope the law in your country is on your side and at the end of the day you can laugh in her face. Don't give up any of your birds to please this woman.
You have got very good advice from the members and would stick to my guns, Hope and prey all works out fine for you. Joe


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

I caught this thread late Too- so sorry you are having this event and trouble with neighbors, sending you well wishes and empowerment.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

jojo67 said:


> Hi Maryjane, I have just read though your thread and am reeling that a yappie neibour is trying to get you to give up your birds, I wsh i lived near you to help you out,* but most of all i would drive my tractor and slurry tanker up to the front of her house and give her all the **** she needs.*I hope the law in your country is on your side and at the end of the day you can laugh in her face. Don't give up any of your birds to please this woman.
> You have got very good advice from the members and would stick to my guns, Hope and prey all works out fine for you. Joe


ROFL Joe!!! Wouldn't that be fun? Thanks again to all of you for being so supportive.


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

*Imho....*

First, Dear MJ, I'm so sad for you that this unfortunate issue has arisen.
I understand that it really doesn't matter whether or not you're within your legal rights, rather that your Mom has peace with regard to her neighbors.

Second, Dear Birdie Family, I fear that these issues are going to arise more and more with the ongoing 'bad press' about pigeons. As much as we love to have little babies, I think it's best to rescue/shelter the ones whom are in need and leave it at that. There are soooooo many in need of homes/rehab etc. And I'm sure there are limits as to the number allowed no matter where one lives. This is a disappointing fact that we have to face, at least those of us whom live in residential areas without an actual 'farm'/'ranch' whatever.

It is far worse to have to find another home for a large amount of pigeons that we have come to love as if they were our own children. We have seen how difficult it is to get even one adopted.
I presently have 2 doves and 2 pigeons along with my 10 rabbits and 3 dogs...all rescued. I just give them the best life they could possibly have without reproducing. As with all things, everything in moderation is best.
One can never tell when a miserable neighbor will wake up one day and decide to make trouble.

M.J., you're more than welcome to send 2 of your kids that love each other (buddies) to me for safe keeping. I will fund the cost of shipping as well construct an aviary next to my Co-Hop for them asap. Keeping you updated and following their care exactly as you have established. 
I am literally in tears about this. My heart is breaking for you.
I'm praying that others will try to do the same without being overloaded themselves. I'm also praying that your Mom's cats will not be affected.

Lastly, Snipes and everyone....There is a place where all whom cause grief for others will someday reside.....HELL!!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

CHRISTIN RN said:


> M.J., you're more than welcome to send 2 of your kids that love each other (buddies) to me for safe keeping. I will fund the cost of shipping as well construct an aviary next to my Co-Hop for them asap. Keeping you updated and following their care exactly as you have established.
> I am literally in tears about this. My heart is breaking for you.
> I'm praying that others will try to do the same without being overloaded themselves. I'm also praying that your Mom's cats will not be affected.
> 
> Lastly, Snipes and everyone....There is a place where all whom cause grief for others will someday reside.....HELL!!!!



Ohhhhh .. Christin .. bless you for this wonderful offer to MJ and her birds. I think I'm gonna have to go have a cry ..

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Christin, thank you so much for you very kind offer. I have been very lucky (blessed!!) to find two people that aren't too far, that both have pigeons and have had many years of experience, and obviously love their birds. One of them actually goes down regularly to the meat market in SF and brings home live birds to his farm; he has pigeons, doves, quail, chukar partridges, and even many pheasants.   I think with their help in taking some of my pijies, I will be at the right number and also be comforted knowing they're in loving homes. So it's really not as bad as it first seemed, of course I will miss them as each one is my "baby" but I am so lucky to have found some great people willing to give them such good homes.

Both of the people have aviaries set up depending on the pigeons and other birds, and they live on lots of land with no nosy neighbors nearby. I really appreciate you offering them such a wonderful home. I think you're right in that we should try not to let them breed much and save room for rescues. I was pretty glad when I realized that I've only had one "oops" baby since I got the new tent, there are a lot less "hiding spots" in this one!!  I know that some people breed their pigeons for racing and bloodlines, of course. Thanks again! I don't know what I'd do without all you guys.


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## CHRISTIN RN (Sep 2, 2007)

*Tears of Joy!!!!*

OH, Maryjane!

I just got to your reply and now am crying tears of joy!!!
What a miraculous answer to prayer to find good neighbors that aren't too far to help give your little sweethearts a loving home and where you can visit them!

This morning and again at lunch I kept thinking of you when I was caring for all my kids, I was so upset at the thought of ever having to give them up never to see, kiss or hug them again! I think I had a dream or something last night about you and your tent....can't remember it now, but I know I awoke with my thoughts and prayers with you!

I prayed and prayed and prayed.....some not so nice about the mean neighbors, for which I will now have to do confession for!

Please keep us updated on their transport.
I've come to love your little guys after viewing your photo albums with the captions many times. I even showed a few to my sister when she was visiting....she will be thrilled when I call her later as we spoke this afternoon and she said she'd be willing to care also for 2 buddies.

You have no idea what a sigh of relief and thankfullness I'm feeling upon reading your GREAT MIRACULOUS NEWS!

And, Terry, so sorry I made you cry...you now can join me with tears of joy!!!
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


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