# Eggs don't feel right



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I was candling my eggs yesterday and I found 2 eggs from the same parents not feeling right. They were warm, fertile and showed no damage. They were light weight from the previous or from the time they were laid. Its about 10days now.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

warriec said:


> I was candling my eggs yesterday and I found 2 eggs from the same parents not feeling right. They were warm, fertile and showed no damage. They were light weight from the previous or from the time they were laid. Its about 10days now.


I don't understand what you're saying?


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

They eggs are fertile and 10days into incubation but they dont weigh right. not heavy enough


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

warriec said:


> They eggs are fertile and 10days into incubation but they dont weigh right. not heavy enough


I can't say that I have a clue as to what an egg should or should not feel like or weigh at 10 days into incubation.  
If I candle an egg, I do it at about 7 days and I couldn't tell you if any "weighed" more or less than any other I've candled. After I candle them and see if they are good or not, I don't have any reason to handle them again. 
And it doesn't actually matter I don't think. They'll either hatch or they won't and there's not a lot we can do about it either way. Agree??


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

You think there hollow? Maybe they are Duds! could be you mis-interpreted the egg as fertile when it actually was a dud from the start? Only time will tell!


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

they are fertile i check my eggs twice - at day 5 and day 10 and any egg that is not fertile is removed because i foster the eggs to pumpers.

its a mystery, looks right but dont feel right. Lets hope for the best and see


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Yep that's all we can do, hope you don't get some sort of "MIDGET RACER" now that would be interesting LOL!


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I dont breed racers. only german beauties.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

So what you're saying is that they feel different than the way previous eggs have felt at this same stage in the incubation process?


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## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

this may not mean anything coming from me (because im a newbie) but maybe they started to develop and then died and the veins you are seeing is of dead pigeon and hence no weight would be put on from the chick from the time it died if it died.....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ryan said:


> this may not mean anything coming from me (because im a newbie) but maybe they started to develop and then died and the veins you are seeing is of dead pigeon and hence no weight would be put on from the chick from the time it died if it died.....


When they are alive, I can see movement when I candle an egg.


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

was thinking the same kind of thing ... dried out . have had some of that lately


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*They do sometimes dry out*



warriec said:


> I was candling my eggs yesterday and I found 2 eggs from the same parents not feeling right. They were warm, fertile and showed no damage. They were light weight from the previous or from the time they were laid. Its about 10days now.


But eggs do actually lose weight during incubation as some moisture escapes from them during the process.

There are formulas that can tell you if the egg is in good health at various stages of their developement. I have no idea what the formulas are but a friend of mine who bred falcons for release to the wild, regularly weighed the eggs during incubation to be sure of their health and viability.

Eggs that dry out too much often have a thin shell. In pigeons these eggs are often rough to the touch, rather than smooth and shiney like they should be. Maybe feed more or better grit if you are getting too many eggs that dry prematurely.

This is what DDT did to the Bald Eagles (and probably other birds as well) in the US until it was banned. It caused the birds to lay thin shelled eggs that either would break or just not hatch because they dried too fast and died. 

Since banning the use of DDT, the Eagles have made a remarkable comeback and are no longer even on the endangered list. 

Toxins and disease are other reasons for laying thin shelled eggs.

Bill


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

jbangelfish said:


> Toxins and disease are other reasons for laying thin shelled eggs.
> 
> Bill


Thin shelled eggs can also be caused by the inability of the hen to absorb calcium correctly, either due to lack of other minerals and vitamins in the diet or a health issue.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*We don't know if they are thin shelled*

It was just a possiblity. If they are, I suggested better grit or more grit or look to disease or Toxins as a possible cause.


Bill


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I changed to a higher calcium grit, put vitamins in the water, and some apple cider vinegar and that improved egg quality in my only laying hen.

Two lessons I learned: Odd egg or not, it could still hatch. Yes, it could hatch into a runt. I have an odd egg hatch squab that is 30% undersized at her age one month after hatch.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I had this with my first round. A very experienced fancier checked the eggs and, of one pair, he said that they looked full but felt too light. He didn't think that they'd hatch but, I wouldn't let him throw them. They hatched and the youngsters were fine. 
It's not long to wait now to see what happens - give hem a chance for the sake of a week or so.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

philodice said:


> I changed to a higher calcium grit, put vitamins in the water, and some apple cider vinegar and that improved egg quality in my only laying hen.
> 
> Two lessons I learned: Odd egg or not, it could still hatch. Yes, it could hatch into a runt. I have an odd egg hatch squab that is 30% undersized at her age one month after hatch.


I like to root for the underdog, I bet this runt is a cute little thing. I also learned something, I did not know they could hatch such a small baby. interesting.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

She is a cute and sweet baby. I take her inside a lot, give her a special seed dish and keep her warm. She likes to land on my head. So tiny she fits in the palm of my hand like an 15 day old baby but she is fully fledged and flies great.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Got a picture?*



philodice said:


> She is a cute and sweet baby. I take her inside a lot, give her a special seed dish and keep her warm. She likes to land on my head. So tiny she fits in the palm of my hand like an 15 day old baby but she is fully fledged and flies great.


I'd like to see this runt.

I tried to let small eggs hatch over the years and never had any luck with it. I thought it would be fun to have a dwarf or miniature pigeon. Mine usually died by the second day if they did hatch and many would have probably been deformed.

Many dwarfs have lethal genes associated with them and whether this has anything to do with the small eggs and their typical inability to thrive, I have no idea.

A runt (not the breed) is a different matter altogether and is not small by genetics. Interesting anyway, I'd like to see this bird.

Bill


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Here is the small bird.










Comparison shot:









She is the one on the top. I won't be breeding her.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yep, it's small*

But it isn't terribly small, in my opinion, from the picture. I would consider it normal but smallish. I wouldn't be afraid to breed from it but maybe that's just me.

There is a fair amount of variation in size within a breed of dove or pigeon. A few ounces one way or the other is quite normal.

Bill


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Well a Dove sized bird = dove size eggs looks like a big difference between a homer and a dove?


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2008)

I've had smaller eggs hatch out too but the babies always caught up in size later on


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Well I was looking at the breed standard and it is obvious that all my little rangy necked, broad shouldered mutts are culls. I still love them.  
Now that I know more about doves if I buy more later they will be higher quality. I don't mean to disrespect my little BabyDoll but she has an odd shape to the keel that bulges out, and a skinny little body, and she doesn't fly very well. That's why I'm not going to breed her.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I didn't catch that before*



philodice said:


> Well I was looking at the breed standard and it is obvious that all my little rangy necked, broad shouldered mutts are culls. I still love them.
> Now that I know more about doves if I buy more later they will be higher quality. I don't mean to disrespect my little BabyDoll but she has an odd shape to the keel that bulges out, and a skinny little body, and she doesn't fly very well. That's why I'm not going to breed her.



If it is that weak, it may not survive to full adult or it just may never be strong enough to breed or lay eggs anyway.

What do you mean your doves are culls? Doves have standards? Do people show them? OK, I'm kiddin' about that stuff, I'm sure somebody shows them and that they have a breed standard. Who cares about that stuff? If your birds are healthy and strong and you like them, that's good enough. If you wanted to show them, you'd have to worry about a show standard which will be some silly idea about what a bird should like like. Ringneck doves look and do fine in their original wild form and all the color varieties that have been created from them.

Bill


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yes, people do show doves and there are standards for them as there are for show breeds of pigeons. The American Dove Association is probably the big organization here in the U.S. 

We do not condone lethal culling here on Pigeon-Talk nor the discussion of it. I realize that nobody actually brought this up, but I am just reminding everyone of the board rules.

Terry


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

We are getting off topic here, now what about my egg problem???, a little smaller than usual, seems dry to touch but fertile.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Well, I guess time will tell. How much longer have they to go?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

warriec said:


> We are getting off topic here, now what about my egg problem???, a little smaller than usual, seems dry to touch but fertile.


Things did get a bit off topic, however, I think that you've gotten plenty of answers to your question. The eggs have been laid and there's not one thing you can do except make sure the parents are getting enough nutrition and watch to see what happens with the eggs. If they hatch, they hatch. If they don't, they don't. I don't see the real "problem" here, except to do what you can to make sure it doesn't happen the next time she lays eggs. Nothing you can do about these eggs. They're already here. 
We'll be waiting to see what happens with them, as I'm sure you'll let us know.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Dry or rough?*



warriec said:


> We are getting off topic here, now what about my egg problem???, a little smaller than usual, seems dry to touch but fertile.


A rough shell indicates a thin shell and they may very well dry out before they are able to hatch. They should feel dry but very smooth. You're just going to have to wait this one out and see what happens. Do make sure that your birds are getting plenty of calcium from their grit, usually oyster shell.

Do you have other birds? Are their eggs OK? If one bird is having a problem laying viable eggs while the rest of the flock is doing fine, she may have an underlying problem, causing her to do so. The most likely cause of any of this is a lack of calcium but disease and contact with toxins can also cause problems.

Bill


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

A small amount of peanut oil mixed in the feed is also helpful. Keeps her from getting egg bound. Once a week or so is plenty.....not dripping soaked, just a bit oiley.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

You really don't expect pigeon sized eggs from a midget dove do you?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I'm thinkin' that they meant small for dove egg*



DEEJAY7950 said:


> You really don't expect pigeon sized eggs from a midget dove do you?


The bird is smaller than normal. It is somewhat unusual for small or deformed eggs to even hatch.

Bill


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