# Underweight? Predetors? And other questions from a newbie.



## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Hello, 

Almost three months ago I got a pigeon Charlie by finding him on the street, injured. He seemed to still be quite young as I now know a bit more about pigeons. He had yellow hairs on his head which I used to think meant he was dirty. And he was squeaking which I thought meant he wasn't actually a pigeon. Excuse my ignorance. 

He has stopped squeaking and started to "coo". Which I guess means he is growing up *tear* He also now has purple and green feathers on his neck instead of yellow ones on his head. And shedding baby feathers like crazy. 

*QUESTION 1. Firstly, is that normal? Overnight his whole hutch was filled with baby feathers...is that him shedding into an adult or is the falling out from stress?*

Also, we are kind of worried because he appears thin. And I kind of expect him to be an adult by now since he mustve been about 8 weeks when we got him in Febuary. And he by no means looks like an adult compared to the pigeons I've seen in his forum. He doesn't appear to have much of an appetite. or what what we can tell. Sometimes most of his food is gone but were not sure if that's 1 of his 3 friends helping him out. We think that maybe he doesn't like the bird seeds were feeding him so do you happen to know which is the best? Since, he seemed to eat his old bird seed a lot more which someone kind on this forum came and gave to us. 

*QUESTION 2*. *All in all my question is, is Charlie still young and therefore still quite small in size and weight or is he an underweight adult? Estimating by his age of 20 weeks, give or take. And I've heard different things but is cooked corn and rice bad for pigeons?
*

Lastly, Charlie lives in a guinea pig hutch by himself. It is two stories so he can walk up (he cant fly at all). It is quite large and made out of wood. But during the daytime 7am-4pm he likes to walk around outside with three friends (who are similar to pigeons) who visit him everyday. I see him get so excited waiting for them and when he sees them he stalks them around eating food on the ground, so happy. I think it makes him feel like a real pigeon. And we have to let him out because at 7am he starts begging to be let out waiting at the door. 

*QUESTION 3:* Is this dangerous though? I know it is a risk. As when we we weren't as careful as we assumed a cat would never come here since we are surrounded by houses with dogs so the smell would put them off. We were wrong as I guess the pigeon smell was too strong and at 7pm one evening I found a big black cat completely in the hutch with Charlie on the top story frightened. He is a defenseless pigeon. He can't fly at all. Luckily he had already gone to bed upstairs. So now from 7am-4pm my dog is on guard all day to make sure no cats up outside. She is an indoor dog, so she is not exactly happy but she does it. And at night time he goes into his hutch in the laundry with the laundry door closed. Were not sure if the cat has tried to come back. But I've read that most people don't even dare to put there disabled pigeons outside by them-self. *What should I do? Is this wrong? He seems happiest when outside with his friends, and he is upset when he cant be with them. He is happy cuddling at night with us, but only at night. What do I do? I'm so confused, me and my mum are so scared that we will one day lose him.*

THANK YOU. Any answers positive or negative appreciated. Please just be honest. I want to know the truth.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

I will post a photo ASAP. Realised it would need one. He is just outside with his friends right now so I will wait for them to go and it will be up in 10 minutes.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVv6Gh8DjKo
I just uploaded the video from my IPHONE. It's easier.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Msmely just wanting to confirm Charlie is the one winged young pigeon you posted about a couple of months ago? If so, Im so pleased to hear he is alive and thriving. 

In answer to your question it is entirely normal for a young pigeon to mould out his baby feathers - he looks very handsome by the way!

It might be helpful if you took Charlie to a vet for check up if you are worried about his weight. If you weigh Charlie on a set of kitchen scales that would be helpful. are a number of differing reasons pigeons can be underweight, and whilst good grain, minerals and grit can help, particularly if he is an outside bird that free ranges on grass it is highly probable that he could have internal parasites. Check out the Melbourne bird clinic - the vet there is very cheap and will see pigeons that people hAve as pets.

I do think you are placing Charlie is a risky position by letting him wander around outside unenclOsed. Something like a covered guinea pig run could give him opportunities to be outsIDE safely

Really glad he pulled through

Kamz


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Thank you. Yes he is, thank you  
I weighed him on the "guinea pig scale" and he is 260 grams. Internal parasites? I'll talk to my mum and try and get him to a check up just in case. 

What I'm thinking about doing, is maybe building an enclosed outside area like we have for the guinea pigs and being outside with him, a couple times a day when he wants to wander. I'm at University and I don't have that many hours a day so I could easily do that. And his other bird friends aren't that scared of me. I just don't want him to lose his outside time.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

He's a cutie. 

I agree with Kamz, though, putting him outside when he can't fly is very dangerous. You could easily build a run with some chicken wire and wood. (Make sure you check with other members--I think there's some kind of rinse you need to do to the chicken wire but I don't remember what.) Or a small loft like this: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/safe-materials-for-new-loft-30730.html?highlight=rinse+wire

Hey, as far as being underweight or not--can you see his keelbone (the one right down the middle of his ribs--like the keel of a boat)?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well...nice job on the rescue. I agree that his diet should be diversified.

His weight is LIGHT for a Feral Pigeon...but not in the 'omigosh' danger zone.

1) Get some ivermectin online from Foy's or Jedd's and treat him for worms.

2) Diversify his diet. Buy some Zupreem or Lafaebers or Harrisons or Kaytee Parrot Pellets, the small size, for Budgies/Parakeets. Small or fine size. Mix some in with his food. That stuff is hecka nutritious and is really good for them.

3) Regarding the letting outside. Hmmmm....that's an interesting one. You see...it is NOT a good idea to allow a healed Feral outside if he/she was found as a baby...because they have not acclimated to the Feral world (predators, traffic, how to find food) and can fly away so you can never retrieve them.

In THIS instance, however...if your pal is completely incapable of flight and you can catch him EASILY...and he has shown NO ability to get in the air even in a good wind...and you can always catch him when it's time to go in....

I would say, allow him to forage with the Ferals as long as it is in an absolutely safe and contained area where he would always be accessible to you. And would always be supervised, under your watchful eye while out. I think I would be inclined to allow him that luxury, since he seems to get such enjoyment out of it.

Regarding the cats....make sure (redesign if necessary) the hutch so that if he is inside and a cat manages to breach the canine defenses, the cat has ZERO way of actually TOUCHING your pal in the hutch if it is sitting ON the hutch (this may mean building an extra 'layer' of hutch around the initial one). Even the slightest scratch from a cat can be lethal if left untreated...and it might visually seem undetectable to you.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Thank you Jaye!! Your advice helped A LOT 
We have decided to keep him in the laundry/indoors for the meantime. He has a couple hours playtime everyday while someone is looking on in the kitchen. We are trying to look for something on Ebay that can work as an outside pigeon hutch so he can get his sunshine without all the extra stress but I gotta sve up the dollars first. 

I've noticed his behaviour has changed a lot in the past few days. He shakes when his friends come, and copies everything they do. Eat non stop, drink from the dogs bowl. He is also spending most of his time voluntairly in his laundry/hutch, I'm not sure if this is because he is starting to realise there are predetors?

We also changed his bird seed to wild bird seed and he loves that a lot more and bought him so grit which he lovessss! So were a bit happy about that.

Wish Charlie good luck and thank you!!!


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

In future there is a pigeon grain supplier in thomastown on apex CRT - they have a awesome range of differing pigeon seeds, grits and supplements. 

I would suggest if you want a cheap vet check up get your mum to take you to dr Colin walker in scoresby - your average suburban vet wouldnt know what to look for in an underweight pigeon. He is Also very cheap for an avian vet, and specializes in pigeons


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Thank you Kamz.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

I mean to write a more in depth reply but my pigeon was sitting on me in that moment. I will take him to the vet next week since I know then that I'll have enough money. He seems fine, he is eating a bit more. I'm just going through all the threads now to try and find the answers, thanks so much guys


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## NomesB (Mar 11, 2010)

Just adding to the comment from Kamz... I've bought grit from the store in Apex Crt, and they did appear to have a large variety of other pigeon products. 

You can also get pigeon seed from King Pets in Mahoneys Rd, Cambellfield (near the corner of Hume Hwy). They sell in 2kg bags, which is ideal for one bird, and the seed always looks to be good quality - no bugs, very little dust. They don't have a big range of grit and supplements, though, so you would have to go elsewhere for those.


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

Thank you everyone. That helps a lot since some pet stores don't really know what to feed pigeons.

Just one last question if anyone can answer. I've noticed in the past few days when he sees other birds he start flapping around (trying to fly) and shaking?? It even scares a couple birds. Is that him being over excited or nervous or frustrated?? I don't want to put him in that enviroment if it's making him frustrated.


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