# What to feed?



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi all,

I've been feeding the ferals regular wild bird seed up till now when someone suggested I feed a pigeon-specific mix. The brand she uses is Brown's (http://www.fmbrown.com/bird_Pigeon_Thrifty.htm), which I couldn't find locally, so I ended up with Baden, which looks to have similar ingredients (http://www.badenfeed.com/prod_pigeon.htm). 

I noticed that the pigeon mixes tend to be higher protein and lower fat than the supermarket seed. They also tend to have a lot of big seeds in them (small corn/canadian peas, etc.), which is good when you want the birds to eat quickly. Are these pigeon mixes healthier for them than the wild bird seed? (And does anyone know how much protein and fat a feral should be getting roughly?) Some of the birds don't seem to like it as much, and I don't know if that's because they're not used to it yet or if canadian peas seem more like pebbles to them than food. 

I'm wondering if they will need less of the pigeon mix to feel full than the wild bird seed (makes sense to me if the pigeon-specific food is higher quality).

Thanks for any advice,
Jennifer


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Jennifer,

Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

Thank you for feeding our noble feral pigeons. I'm sure they would greatly appreciate a change of seed.

I have never seen a wild bird seed that can come close to a real pigeon mix. A pigeon mix provides them with the variety they need, to meet their nutritional needs. The corn is especially important for them during this time of year. It provides them the fuel they need to stay warm.

I couldn't open your link, but here is an example of a pigeon mix:

http://purgrain.com


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jenfer said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been feeding the ferals regular wild bird seed up till now when someone suggested I feed a pigeon-specific mix. The brand she uses is Brown's (http://www.fmbrown.com/bird_Pigeon_Thrifty.htm, which I couldn't find locally, so I ended up with Baden, which looks to have similar ingredients (http://www.badenfeed.com/prod_pigeon.htm.
> 
> ...


The link is fixed in the quote here on my post. The parenthesis was added into the link.
We feed the Browns feed and when we were in MI we used the other brand. I forget what the brand name was. A pigeon mix would be better for the birds, but, it can be quite expensive. I hear that all grains are going up in price, so, although a pigeon mix would be best, the wild bird seed is better than the bread and french fries and who knows what else they have to eat in the wild. Adding some popcorn to the wild bird seed would be a good thing.


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

What a nice thing you are doing for the ferals. You might also try to get ahold of some red grit for them, as without grit or something similar, they can't digest seeds properly. They sell it here for $0.25/lb. Good luck finding seed for them.


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi all!

Thanks for all the responses (and to you Lovebirds, for fixing the links).

The pigeon feeds around here are actually cheaper than or the same price as the wild bird seed. The Baden mix I ended up with contains: trapper peas, yellow corn, red hard wheat, red and white milo, buckwheat, maple peas, and malt barley. I've noticed that many of the ferals (including a tame one who is currently living with me) won't eat the trapper peas (and what are trapper peas, anyway? Are they the same as vetch peas or Canada peas?). Yesterday, a lot of seed was left on the ground, which is unusual. (I don't like leaving seed on the ground for various reasons.)

How important are peas in their diet? I notice that most, if not all, of the pigeon mixes have peas as one of the first ingredients. I want them to be healthy, of course, but I also want to feed them something they'll eat. 

Maryjane, these birds are in an urban environment, and I think they can find the grit they need in the form of small rocks. I do offer my indoor birds grit, though, but it's not red. Is there a reason why red is better?

Thanks all,
Jennifer


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Jennifer,

Your ferals must have plenty to eat, if they are leaving the seed. Give them less and they will clean it up. They are also having to adjust to their new diet, so they may not know it is FOOD. My birds are leaving those peas too-(but they are domestic-spoiled brats), this time of year, but then I reduce the amount of feed and they eat it up. If they are living in the cold right now, you might want to add some extra corn to insulate them.

I agree with you about them leaving the seed, it is not good, invites rodents and eyes of those who may eventually harm them, and more. Overeating will also cause their number to increase to the point where some people will see them as a nuisance. Too much protein in the diet will also stimulate the sex drive.

Unfortunately an urban invirenment might leave them to pick up little rocks that are laced with residue's from cars and pesticide. Red grit which is specifically designed for pigeons, not only helps them digest seed in their crops, but gives them calcium suppliment that they need.


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Trees,

That flock normally *never* leaves seed on the ground (in fact, they usually ask and ask for more), so that's what alarmed me. There are a couple of factors that could have played a role: 1) it was warmer than normal yesterday (in the 50s; it's been in the 30s here recently); 2) there was a hawk attack last week, so the birds might be on guard a bit; 3) the seed is different.

Now that you mention the protein, the pigeon mixes are higher (around 16%) compared to the wild bird seed (around 9%). Do you think the ferals need that much protein? It seems like all the pigeon mixes have about the same protein content. I don't know anything about bird nutrition, so I don't know how much protein they should be getting compared to fat and carbs. 

It's interesting that some of the ferals gobble up the pigeon mix; others take a long time eating it; and still others leave the peas behind as if they are rocks.

It's interesting about the grit. I've always been told they will find what they need. Where do you buy yours? The kind I have at home is gray and for parrots.

Thanks again,
Jennifer


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Jen
You'll find that the birds eat the peas more readily when they are breeding and/or raising babies. Other than that time of year, all the protein really isn't needed and they know that. Of course, if hungry enough, they will eat the peas anyway. I switch my breeders to a higher protein diet about two weeks before I pair them up. For the most part, they didn't eat them very much until about a week ago when all the babies starting hatching. Now the peas are the first thing to go. Some pigeons also prefer the white (Canadian) peas as opposed to the darker ones...(don't know what they are called).....so, I wouldn't worry too much about who's eating what. There's not much you can do about it anyway. Also, the warmer weather most likely IS the reason that they didn't eat as much. It's sometimes best to let the birds decide what they want or need. I think (contrary to what most humans think) they know more than we, about what they need.


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

> I wouldn't worry too much about who's eating what. There's not much you can do about it anyway.


I'm only really concerned about food being left on the ground. Lot of dangers here (human, animal), so I don't want to put the birds in a vulnerable position.



> It's sometimes best to let the birds decide what they want or need. I think (contrary to what most humans think) they know more than we, about what they need.


I agree with you. In fact, I was just thinking yesterday about how most people see animals as beneath us, but I think we humans are really the inferior species.  But I would like to try to figure out what food is best from a variety of angles (I don't want them leaving a bunch of peas on the ground; I'd like them to be able to eat quickly for a number of reasons; I'd like to offer good nutrition; I'd like not to go poor).

Thanks again!
Jennifer


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Jennifer, we feed A LOT of birds in the wild, every day. We buy the 50 lb. bags of regular wild bird seed about every two weeks. That is what we feed the feral flocks and they seem to thrive on it. Like you, I'm not sure that the ferals need grit since they pick it up from the ground.

Our caged birds do get a better variety of seed. We give them Kaytee Pigeon Feed (with the peas/beans, etc), popcorn, lentils, split peas, safflour seed, and put some of the regular wild bird seed in with the mix. We also add a few scoops of the fruit blend avian maintenance pellets for cockatiels. They absolutely love this stuff. Course, they poop red sometimes because of it! 

In the afternoons, they get a treat of Hartz Mountain finch seed, safflour seed, and the cockatiel seed - not much but they look forward to this treat every day.

I have mentioned the Hartz Mountain songbird blend on the forum several times. We usually get it at Wal-mart but it now seems they have switched from that brand to the 8 in 1 brand. We have been using that for about two weeks and the pigeons seem to like it just as much as the Hartz. Both brands had rape seed in the mixture and they go for those seed above anything else.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I don't know that I would use the pigeon grit for wild birds. They do pick up little rocks or whatever off of the ground and once the grit has sat for a while, dried off, been rained on, etc......it's nothing but a little rock anyway, so.......spend the money on seeds.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

jenfer said:


> Hi Trees,
> 
> That flock normally *never* leaves seed on the ground (in fact, they usually ask and ask for more), so that's what alarmed me. There are a couple of factors that could have played a role: 1) it was warmer than normal yesterday (in the 50s; it's been in the 30s here recently); 2) there was a hawk attack last week, so the birds might be on guard a bit; 3) the seed is different.
> 
> ...



Hi Jennifer,

* I think the birds require only about 8 to 10 percent protein during the rest period, they will eat about 12 to 13 percent during the breeding season. My birds are still breeding like crazy but leaving the big peas.

** I buy a big bag of the red grit from our local pigeon racing club, because they buy it in large quantities, but it can be pruchased from the pigeon supply houses. Be best if you persue this to buy locally if possible, its cheaper.


----------



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi guys,

Thanks for helping me figure this out. Feeding grit to ferals wouldn't be easy anyhow (I can't exactly leave a dish of it out), so I'll leave that.

For the most part, everyone is eating the pigeon mix with peas. The exception is the one flock I worry most about (being in the most vulnerable position), which is behaving strangely (they were all there, waiting for food, but then would not come down today, although they acted like they wanted to). I'll have to keep my eye on them.

Brown's Thrifty mix has lower protein than Baden's, so I might switch to that. I certainly don't want them to overbreed (I aim to feed just enough to sustain the existing population, but how much that is exactly is hard to know). Lovebirds, which line of the Brown's do you use? I'm kind of trying to figure out what the right mix of seeds is. Should corn/popcorn be the first ingredient? Sunflower good/bad? Too much safflower harmful? Does millet have any nutritional value, or are corn/peas superior? 

Hagen makes a pigeon/dove mix also, but it's much different from the other pigeon mixes around (mostly small grains like millet, canary seed, oat groats).

I've been feeding and caring for the ferals for a couple of years now, and I never knew until now that they could eat things like whole peas and corn. I always thought smaller seeds were better for them.

Lady T, I've been trying to get my unreleasable senior pigeon to eat Harrison's high-potency super fine on the advice of a vet, but so far he refuses. He loves sunflower seeds and crushed walnuts (are these bad for birds?), and so far is eating the pigeon mix. Are pellets really superior for indoor birds, or is this a marketing gimmick?

Thanks everyone!

Jennifer


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jenfer said:


> Brown's Thrifty mix has lower protein than Baden's, so I might switch to that. I certainly don't want them to overbreed (I aim to feed just enough to sustain the existing population, but how much that is exactly is hard to know). Lovebirds, which line of the Brown's do you use? I'm kind of trying to figure out what the right mix of seeds is. Should corn/popcorn be the first ingredient? Sunflower good/bad? Too much safflower harmful? Does millet have any nutritional value, or are corn/peas superior?


Well, we have different "seasons", if you will, in racing pigeons. We've got, of course, the racing season, both young birds and old birds, then we have the breeding season. All other times of the year are "off seasons" I guess, which mainly means, the birds are just sitting in the loft. Not flying, not breeding, so most of feed according to whatever is going on in and around the loft at that time. I use the Browns Conditioning with popcorn and small corn, Conditioning with ***** and the Breeders mix. During breeding I also add a few extra safflower seeds to the mix. I've never fed Sunflower seeds, except a time or two when we were running low on feed and I mixed in some wild bird seed to stretch it for a day or so. They ate the sunflower seeds just fine, so it's ok to give them, but in moderation I guess. As has been stated before, I would use a mix with popcorn or whole/small corn during the cold weather. Once the weather warms up, I'd go with a mix that doesn't have the whole corn. It seems that, my birds anyway, will eat the popcorn all year, but in the warm and/or hotter months, they hardly touch the whole corn, so I don't even bother giving it to them. Looking at the Thrifty mix with small corn, that's what I would go with if I was you. It has the corn for winter and not a whole lot of protein. JMO


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

jenfer said:


> Lady T, I've been trying to get my unreleasable senior pigeon to eat Harrison's high-potency super fine on the advice of a vet, but so far he refuses. He loves sunflower seeds and crushed walnuts (are these bad for birds?), and so far is eating the pigeon mix. Are pellets really superior for indoor birds, or is this a marketing gimmick?
> 
> 
> 
> Jennifer


Jennifer, I don't know that pellets are superior to a really good seed/pea mix but may be more easily digested and have more vitamins/minerals. I believe one of our members, Pigeonpal, feeds his pellets with no problems. The fruit blend pellets we give ours make up a small portion of their daily diet but they truly love the stuff. I doubt seriously they would take to the plain pellets like they do the fruit blend. They seem to like the colors, picking out mostly the red pellets. 

I honestly can't answer your question about the walnuts because I have never heard of pigeons being fed them. I would certainly use them in moderation as well as sunflower seed. Both sunflower and safflower seed should be given in small quantities. Best to concentrate on the pigeon mix with the added good stuff like popcorn, lentils, split peas, etc.


----------

