# lets all weigh in on YB race methods



## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

last year i raced the youngsters to the perch, but this year i had a lot of december and jan hatchings and im reading it may be better to fly these guys on widowhood. 

Last year was my first year and I had a really good year, just flying clueless and to the perch...

the flyers in my club and combine seem to not like flying widowhood as youngsters.... 

I just wanted to here some of the guys around here on how they race early yb's 
I know Warren is a YB specialist, as is Smith Family, what are you guys methods for early hatches?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> last year i raced the youngsters to the perch, but this year i had a lot of december and jan hatchings and im reading it may be better to fly these guys on widowhood.
> 
> Last year was my first year and I had a really good year, just flying clueless and to the perch...
> 
> ...


 My best races have been when the bird returns to a nest bowl full of eggs or young in the nest. Of course it helps if you are not only breeding early, but also if you are breeding for and producing fast maturing birds.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I just fly to the perch and if a pair mates and has eggs they have to build a nest on the floor. I really don't use any motivation method for my young birds or old birds. I treat them both the same they go on alot of tosses and fly every race I think they just fly home fast because they are sick of flying. I've been thinking about using a widowhood system for my YB's and OB's to see if they do even better then they do now. But how much better can they do they already have me in the top 5 in the IF Champion Loft 5 to 25 Loft Category and they won the IF Hall of Fame as well as having the 5th, 6th, and 7th place birds in the 5 to 25 Loft Category this past YB season. And I've had the Champion bird in my club the past 3 seasons.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I just fly to the perch and if a pair mates and has eggs they have to build a nest on the floor. I really don't use any motivation method for my young birds or old birds. I treat them both the same they go on alot of tosses and fly every race I think they just fly home fast because they are sick of flying. I've been thinking about using a widowhood system for my YB's and OB's to see if they do even better then they do now. *But how much better can they do they already have me in the top 5 in the IF Champion Loft 5 to 25 Loft Category and they won the IF Hall of Fame as well as having the 5th, 6th, and 7th place birds in the 5 to 25 Loft Category this past YB season. And I've had the Champion bird in my club the past 3 seasons.*


 You are doing good for being in an IF club, but instead of being satisfied with being in top 5, you could shoot for being #1, and instead of #5, #6 and #7 you could shoot for #1, #2 and #3. And then someday you could reach even higher and join an AU affilated club where the competition is much more keen due to the advanced skill level of competion in the AU and the larger number of fliers.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> You are doing good for being in an IF club, but instead of being satisfied with being in top 5, you could shoot for being #1, and instead of #5, #6 and #7 you could shoot for #1, #2 and #3. And then someday you could reach even higher and join an AU affilated club where the competition is much more keen due to the advanced skill level of competion in the AU and the larger number of fliers.


I was 1st, 5th 6th, and 7th so I already won that one. And I've had 8 birds in the top 7 of the IF Hall of Fame over the past 3 seasons. One bird was in the top 6 in the 76 to 150 Loft Category in back to back seasons the 2010 YB and 2011 OB seasons. So I get my birds to fly pretty good for me. And I don't fly with slouches I have the IF Champion Loft in my club he beats me in points because he ships more birds and racks up more points but I beat him in average speed. And over the past 2 seasons flyers from my club were 4th in the WTCM race in 2010 and won it in 2011. So I don't care if it's IF or AU my birds have flown very good against good competition especailly in the money races. Out of the last 4 that I flew in 3 of them I was in the top 5 and in those 3 races I shipped 1, 4, and 3 birds for a total of 8 birds in the 3 races. And had a 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 5th, and a 6th. Could they have done better I think so but I've only got so much time to spend with them. And now that they are pushing drug testing here maybe now my birds will get the wins that I think were getting stolen away from them by guys who were druging their birds. But who knows only time will tell.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Pigeon 0446 what family of birds you fly with on your end?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I was 1st, 5th 6th, and 7th so I already won that one. And I've had 8 birds in the top 7 of the IF Hall of Fame over the past 3 seasons. One bird was in the top 6 in the 76 to 150 Loft Category in back to back seasons the 2010 YB and 2011 OB seasons. So I get my birds to fly pretty good for me. And I don't fly with slouches I have the IF Champion Loft in my club he beats me in points because he ships more birds and racks up more points but I beat him in average speed. And over the past 2 seasons flyers from my club were 4th in the WTCM race in 2010 and won it in 2011. So I don't care if it's IF or AU my birds have flown very good against good competition especailly in the money races. Out of the last 4 that I flew in 3 of them I was in the top 5 and in those 3 races I shipped 1, 4, and 3 birds for a total of 8 birds in the 3 races. And had a 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 5th, and a 6th. Could they have done better I think so but I've only got so much time to spend with them. And now that they are pushing drug testing here maybe now my birds will get the wins that I think were getting stolen away from them by guys who were druging their birds. But who knows only time will tell.


 Well then, I guess you have mastered the sport and no further improvement is needed, so now what is left except to continue what you are already doing ?

On another note, what drugs would they be testing for ? I know there has been talk for years that certain winners have been "cheating" by drugging their birds, but for the life of me, I have no idea what drugs would be effective in terms of making birds fly home faster ? I know with human athletes the use of steroids has been used to enhance performance, but all I can see them doing to pigeons is messing them up. So I have often wondered if there really are drugs which enhance racing pigeon preformance, or if it is just a bogeyman of sorts, where it's use has been said to be the cause of losses by others who have no other explanation.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well then, I guess you have mastered the sport and no further improvement is needed, so now what is left except to continue what you are already doing ?
> 
> On another note, what drugs would they be testing for ? I know there has been talk for years that certain winners have been "cheating" by drugging their birds, but for the life of me, I have no idea what drugs would be effective in terms of making birds fly home faster ? I know with human athletes the use of steroids has been used to enhance performance, but all I can see them doing to pigeons is messing them up. So I have often wondered if there really are drugs which enhance racing pigeon preformance, or if it is just a bogeyman of sorts, where it's use has been said to be the cause of losses by others who have no other explanation.


 By no means have I mastered the sport there's always room for improvement and I'm always tinkering with stuff. But there's no reason to make a drastic change and go with some motivation system when what I'm doing is working for me. 
As for the drugs being tested for they are still in the process of making a list of things that will be banned. But one of the things for sure will be caffine. Then there is going to be stroids and then there's going to be bronchodilators along with some other stuff they were talking about like pain killers. From what I've been told they've tested dropping from the crates of a few of the races and all kinds of stuff was coming up in the dropping that shouldn't be in a pigeon and there's gotta be a reason ppl are using this stuff which included morphine and cocaine. And there's been ppl thrown out of the WTCM for using stuff. I used to think that what are the drugs gonna do to help the bird win the bird still needs to want to be home. But then after all the stuff that has been talked about I could see how the bird not feeling pain will help it fly at full speed longer. If it's on a bronchodilators it's lungs will be able to take in more air then the birds that are natural thus giving the bird and advantage. This hasn't been said at any of the meeting but I feel that some of the addictive drugs could be used to motivate the birds. If they can only get their fix in the loft they are gonna do anything to get home and get it.


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## broodboy (Jun 22, 2010)

For years things such as caffine,cotrizones,Dexamethisone & anabolic steroids etc has been used in the Game fowl sport here in the south (Louisiana) when it was legal just a few years ago. So I believe that if a person know the right amount for a pigeon that it is possible for these drugs to give the edge, but they would need to have a love for home or else they are going to be the fastest runaway racing pigeons ever sited. LOL.


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

I've darkened the last few years and always will from here on out. Use to fly YBs natural, they did end up pairing in the later part of the season but nothing like with darkened youngsters. Everyone in our club pairs about the first week of Feb., as do most guys here in Canada, so it makes since for us to darken and get faster maturing ybs before the season is over(in my club last race is first part of Sept). I don't mate the birds but if they do pair and nest all the better. If they don't mate they fly to the perch. We are a small club so we don't worry much about yb racing, only about 4-5 races. We save them our gas money for longer OB races.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

All the pigeon supply houses sell tea and that has caffine, does that mean they should not sell tea. I listened to a lecture by Crazy All and Brad Hogun, Crazy All uses tea from Foys and Brad uses Lipton instant. Even Lance Armstrong had coffee with breakfest.
Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> By no means have I mastered the sport there's always room for improvement and I'm always tinkering with stuff. But there's no reason to make a drastic change and go with some motivation system when what I'm doing is working for me.
> As for the drugs being tested for they are still in the process of making a list of things that will be banned. But one of the things for sure will be caffine. Then there is going to be stroids and then there's going to be bronchodilators along with some other stuff they were talking about like pain killers. From what I've been told they've tested dropping from the crates of a few of the races and all kinds of stuff was coming up in the dropping that shouldn't be in a pigeon and there's gotta be a reason ppl are using this stuff which included morphine and cocaine. And there's been ppl thrown out of the WTCM for using stuff. I used to think that what are the drugs gonna do to help the bird win the bird still needs to want to be home. But then after all the stuff that has been talked about I could see how the bird not feeling pain will help it fly at full speed longer. If it's on a bronchodilators it's lungs will be able to take in more air then the birds that are natural thus giving the bird and advantage. This hasn't been said at any of the meeting but I feel that some of the addictive drugs could be used to motivate the birds. If they can only get their fix in the loft they are gonna do anything to get home and get it.


 I agree with you. My mentor from the good ole days told me that once your birds are doing well, then don't change anything ! I assume the thinking is, that if you are doing well, and the birds are working just right, then don't do anything which could change it !

I still have my doubts that providing your birds with say a 5 hour energy drink, or giving them a snort of cocanine will turn them into super racers, but now that we mentioned it here, I wouldn't be surprized if some of the readers after doing a line of coke, might just provide their birds with a line of coke or a sip of coffee !  Under the UPC rules that we fly by there are no drug restrictions written into our rules, so if someone wanted to give their birds a can of Jolt or something, there is nothing to really stop them. I could think of all kinds of reasons for why such things would not work, I personally would not even be tempted to try, as I am thinking such things like caffine or human pain killers could have very negative effects on the birds, just the opposite of what one would hope to do.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

This sounds like us, all getting our asses whooped by one guy that gets 11 birds on the drop every week, no matter the distance it seems like. Winning every week is believable to me but when you do it with 11 birds thats just fishy. Not like we have mediocre guys in my club either. Many of them have AU or IF hall of fame birds, won lots of money in big races.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I fly natural in YB and OB. I have a few nest boxes in the YB loft for the droppers but the older homers will often take the extra two or take up nesting on the floor. I don't let them hatch any eggs that are laid though. I don't like late hatches much.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Lovelace said:


> Pigeon 0446 what family of birds you fly with on your end?


I have a hodgepodge of diffrent stuff. It doesn't matter what family the bird is from a good bird is a good bird and from flying for so long I've got my birds that have done good and then I try to pick up a bird or 2 each year from my clubs Great South Bay Classic top bird auction. I don't look for the winners of that race I look for the bird that was consistent during the season. Since I like birds that can fly and clock every week. I'd rather have the bird with five 5th's then the bird who won a race and never clocked good again I call them one hit wonders.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> All the pigeon supply houses sell tea and that has caffine, does that mean they should not sell tea. I listened to a lecture by Crazy All and Brad Hogun, Crazy All uses tea from Foys and Brad uses Lipton instant. Even Lance Armstrong had coffee with breakfest.
> Dave


They are saying that the caffine in the teas won't cme up positive on the tests unless it is given on shipping day. They say that to come up positive the bird would of had to of had been given caffine pills or had coffee beans shoved down their throat. Also they aren't saying that the caffine is that big of a deal it's more that it can mask other drugs and they are banning anything that can mask other drugs. I'll post more about the drug test once they make a list of what can't be used.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I couldnt get the whole article. But this a caffeine problem this guy is having.

racing pigeons 2011 young bird race team preparation for wtcm jpm cme lcm paof triboro band races pa
To Whom It May Concern, My name is Nelson Ramos HYLAN LOFT I am a member of the AU and have been since 2004 and I race pigeons in Staten Island NY. I have been having a great year racing pigeons in 2011. Now every time I ship my birds they are being drug tested. The last few times they came up with high levels of caffeine and now I'm being accused for cheating. The Bronx Racing Pigeon Club runs a series of 3 band races JPM, WTCM and the CME. After scoring 19th in the first race the JPM, when I went to ship the WTCM race 2 weeks later, I was paid for the JPM and I was told that I came up with high levels of caffeine. I was in shock but I was told by a club officer and also with the presents of the IF president as a witness "CAFFINE is NO PROBLEM" after confirming with them several times and explaining to them that my pigeons were in great health that they were going to clock very well and I don't want to be disqualified they agreed that it wont be a problem so I entered my pigeons in the 2nd race of the series of 3 the WTCM band race. After clocking 10th 23rd, 33rd, 130th and 167th and taking the board. When I went to enter the 3rd race of the series of 3, I was paid for the 2nd race and I was told that the pigeons had high levels of caffeine again. At this time I agreed with the club because when I went back to my loft the first night I went through all my products and I found there was caffeine in the 'SUPER CREATINE PLUS" from John lance at Racing pigeon mall. Since the ...
VID 20110514 00000


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I guess I'm just a dumb country boy, I didn't know doping was an issue with pigeons. We are just a small club no $$ races, just diplomas. I don't think any one in my club gives more that corn oil or peanuts befor the longer races.
Dave


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> I guess I'm just a dumb country boy, I didn't know doping was an issue with pigeons. We are just a small club no $$ races, just diplomas. I don't think any one in my club gives more that corn oil or peanuts befor the longer races.
> Dave


Wish it was like that here


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

First To Hatch said:


> Wish it was like that here


That would be nice, but you guys fly with 50 to 150 lofts and a first place means a lot more. I can't even get people to bet $5 and you guys bet a lot more than that. Your Combine is kinda small with a lot of lofts, ours is over 300 miles wide and 130 miles deep and I think the most we have is 44 lofts.
Dave


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Oh no, we only have like 20 lofts, but the money races ruin things in my opinion. This year I made a suggestion for a 5 bird limit race to be as a B race after the A race, and they guys turned it into a derby where you have to bet $5 a bird. I just want diplomas, average speed, high point bird, etc. But then you end up buying money bands, or birds just to be able to fly that race...oh well


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I wanted our club to do a derby race and part of the $$ goes back into the club, but every body is to cheap. I read about all the clubs that have $$ races and auctions a lot of $$ is raised for the club, and I always get the same " I just want to fly birds " GRRR
Dave


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> I guess I'm just a dumb country boy, I didn't know doping was an issue with pigeons. We are just a small club no $$ races, just diplomas. I don't think any one in my club gives more that corn oil or peanuts befor the longer races.
> Dave


That's what it is money there would be no point in doping the birds if it was just for fun or a diploma. They are planning on testing in all race. Well not actually testing every race but doing it randomly so there's alway a chance they can be testing in hopes that ppl won't try. Around here there's alot of competion and money involved I've actually won $1291 in a regular club race b4. So we have to do somthings to insure that the races are fair and drug testing seams to be one of those things. The money is ruining the sport a keeping the lil guys out here. But it is also a good thing because it makes for better competition and it helps me cover my expenses. Instead of flying against 20 guys or less who are doing it just for fun like most of the country. You fly against guys who treat it like a business it's like a horse race behind some guys house for fun or the Kentucky Derby. There's guys here that have a crew of ppl taking care of there birds and don't think twice about spending 20,000 or more for a bird. You can beat them if you put the time in but once you slack off a lil you don't stand a chance.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> That's what it is money there would be no point in doping the birds if it was just for fun or a diploma. They are planning on testing in all race. Well not actually testing every race but doing it randomly so there's alway a chance they can be testing in hopes that ppl won't try. Around here there's alot of competion and money involved I've actually won $1291 in a regular club race b4. So we have to do somthings to insure that the races are fair and drug testing seams to be one of those things. The money is ruining the sport a keeping the lil guys out here. But it is also a good thing because it makes for better competition and it helps me cover my expenses. Instead of flying against 20 guys or less who are doing it just for fun like most of the country. You fly against guys who treat it like a business it's like a horse race behind some guys house for fun or the Kentucky Derby. There's guys here that have a crew of ppl taking care of there birds and don't think twice about spending 20,000 or more for a bird. You can beat them if you put the time in but once you slack off a lil you don't stand a chance.


 So are you saying that when a racing fancier is providing one of those many tea drinks I have seen on the market, which presumably would have some caffeine in them, that these fanciers are in fact "doping" their bird's ? 

Any ideal what some of the really good ones are ? Maybe there is something to be said then for some of these "magic" drinks. So all this time I could have been winning more races ?!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I think I better off right here sending birds to 1 or 2 OLR.
Dave


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

First To Hatch said:


> This sounds like us, all getting our asses whooped by one guy that gets 11 birds on the drop every week, no matter the distance it seems like. Winning every week is believable to me but when you do it with 11 birds thats just fishy. Not like we have mediocre guys in my club either. Many of them have AU or IF hall of fame birds, won lots of money in big races.


I dont see that as being very fishy. Maybe has a stricter culling regime, and thus a smaller amount of birds, but better birds. But thats just my opinion. If you mob fly and win inconsistently, it makes sense, its a numbers game. If you have a small amount of birds that win consistently, its just good birds along with a good pigeon man imo.

As far as drugs go, im not sure. But, I know from have asthma that a bronco-dilator will not expand your lung complicity, unless it is already constricted like in asthma. And if the bird has asthma, I doubt it will win any races. And caffeine, im not sure, but if it keeps the birds up all night the night before shipping, I would think they would crash just like humans.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My Dad only bred about 20/24 YB`s every year,and he won alot of races....I have been breeding no more then 20/24 for myself for years..I usally ship around 10 or so....I love to beat the guys that ship the max....Just because a guy ships a few birds,surely doesn`t mean he`s cheating...Maybe the mob flyer is....
*He can give 5 birds something not permitted*,and say*,(Well,I shipped 60 birds,and only clocked 5 birds) !!!(So what`s the problem ???).....*......Alamo


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Alamo I agree 100% I myself breed and fly 20/25 birds. Love ever bet of it when I beat mob flyers.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> You are doing good for being in an IF club, but instead of being satisfied with being in top 5, you could shoot for being #1, and instead of #5, #6 and #7 you could shoot for #1, #2 and #3. And then someday you could reach even higher and join an AU affilated club where the competition is much more keen due to the advanced skill level of competion in the AU and the larger number of fliers.


Whats wrong with flying in a IF club?


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

johnnyksspeedshop said:


> I dont see that as being very fishy. Maybe has a stricter culling regime, and thus a smaller amount of birds, but better birds. But thats just my opinion. If you mob fly and win inconsistently, it makes sense, its a numbers game. If you have a small amount of birds that win consistently, its just good birds along with a good pigeon man imo.


He has around 52 pairs of breeders, and ships the limit to every race. I have talked to many guys, and I think to just have such a high percentage of birds doing so well is just fishy.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

First To Hatch said:


> He has around 52 pairs of breeders, and ships the limit to every race. I have talked to many guys, and I think to just have such a high percentage of birds doing so well is just fishy.


 You may very well be correct. The challenge is, there is really no way to know, unless you single out every one of his birds on shipping night or day after, and drug test every bird. The concern I have is the "what if" he simply has better birds, and/or a better loft, loft location, birds in better health etc. If we assume that he is considered innocent until proven guilty, then in a very real way, we are taking the value of his performances away from him, and suggesting in a way that he must be a shady type of charactor. 

We have all looked outside ourselves for a reason for our bird's lesser preformance then we wanted, expected, or hoped for. The truck driver, the liberator, the weather, bad luck, etc. I had the opportunity to take a real close look at a loft and it's operation that some behind closed doors suggested "cheating" with dope, etc. Truth was, at least in this case, the man was simply a better fancier, and devoted a lot of time and energy to his bird's training and care, in some cases extreme. And thus was the pay off on race day. I felt sorry for him because he was being called a cheater behind his back, when that was not the case at all. I guess there are no easy solutions, but someday one of us may rise to the top of the race sheets, and if we do it honestly, how bad would it feel if people were calling you a "cheater" when it was simply your own hard work ?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> You may very well be correct. The challenge is, there is really no way to know, unless you single out every one of his birds on shipping night or day after, and drug test every bird. The concern I have is the "what if" he simply has better birds, and/or a better loft, loft location, birds in better health etc. If we assume that he is considered innocent until proven guilty, then in a very real way, we are taking the value of his performances away from him, and suggesting in a way that he must be a shady type of charactor.
> 
> We have all looked outside ourselves for a reason for our bird's lesser preformance then we wanted, expected, or hoped for. The truck driver, the liberator, the weather, bad luck, etc. I had the opportunity to take a real close look at a loft and it's operation that some behind closed doors suggested "cheating" with dope, etc. Truth was, at least in this case, the man was simply a better fancier, and devoted a lot of time and energy to his bird's training and care, in some cases extreme. And thus was the pay off on race day. I felt sorry for him because he was being called a cheater behind his back, when that was not the case at all. I guess there are no easy solutions, but someday one of us may rise to the top of the race sheets, and if we do it honestly, how bad would it feel if people were calling you a "cheater" when it was simply your own hard work ?


I've already had that happen where I've been accused but I wasn't doing anything wrong I just put in alot of time and effort to get my bird to do what they do for me. But to me knowing I'm not doing anything wrong take them saying I cheated as a compliment. Because my birds did so good that they feel there's not other way of doing that good without cheating. But I like the idea of drug testing since it'll prove that ppl aren't doping so there will be one less excuse as to why they can't beat the guys on the top of the sheets. All I know is droppings were tested out of race crates and there was all kinds of stuff in there that shouldn't be in a pigeons droppings. I don't know if any of the top guys are doping maybe it's lesser flyers thinking they have to dope in order compete who knows right now but the testing will help the good handlers who don't dope out since the test will prove their birds are clean and they are still winning. Now if those top flyers have off years after they start testing there's gonna be more suspicion as to what they were doing.

The way they are gonna do it is they are gonna place all the birds of the ppl they randomly choose but they said the better flyers are def going to be tested. Into testing cages and all the dropping from their birds will be collected and placed into a bag that will be sealed and the owner of the birds will have to sign the seal. Then that bag will be placed into a lock box and shipped to the lab where it will be opened. It's going to cost $100 per loft per race to do the testing. They aren't going to be done in every club race but they can be done and will be done in all the money races.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> So are you saying that when a racing fancier is providing one of those many tea drinks I have seen on the market, which presumably would have some caffeine in them, that these fanciers are in fact "doping" their bird's ?
> 
> Any ideal what some of the really good ones are ? Maybe there is something to be said then for some of these "magic" drinks. So all this time I could have been winning more races ?!


It might or might not help the birds but that's one of the things they are going to ban. Look at post 17 in this thread they are already doing it in the Bronx club for the WTCM. And they are trying to make our testing along the same lines as theirs only better we've got a former School Principal who was a Biology teacher before being principal doing all the research. They are also trying to get the IF involved and it might happen since the club in which the IF President and IF Secretary/Treasurer are in are going to be testing this year. And the IF President has been researching and working on a testing protical for a few years now.


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