# Is this youngster a black pigeon?



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Ok, so I have another question I hope someone will give me an answer to 
I had a couple of Mondenas, but they would not pair up to each other. Instead the hen found herself a Sottobanca, while the cock choosed a little sweetheart-mix of what I don't know. I got her from a friend who did not want her due to beeing a mix, and was to euthanize her. Anyway, attached is a picture of the Modena cock, the grizzled hen, and two pics of their first offspring from May. The second baby from July looks just like the first one.
Can you tell me from the photos what color the youngsters are? I guess some spread has to be involved?


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Spread*

Your hen carries Spread (black), and she passed it along to the younster in the last two pictures. The best way to identify spread is to look for the black tail bar if you can't see it as in the hen the bird carries Spread. Once in while you will see on poor quality Spread birds that you can still faintly make out the tail bar, and sometimes even the pattern in the wings on barred birds.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

*Hello there, are you serious??*



pigeonlover0309 said:


> Hi, thanks for asknig. However I am ashamed that u are not only judging based on feather color, but you also swore in this post. please stop


If so, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, - the swear-word I couldn't even recognise in my text


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> Your hen carries Spead (black), and she passed it along to the younster in the last two pictures. The best way to identify spread is to look for the black tail bar if you can't see it as in the hen the bird carries Spread. Once in while you will see on poor quality Spread birds that you can still faintly make out the tail bar, and sometimes even the pattern in the wings on barred birds.


Thank you for answering Chuck, and for letting me know how to identify the spread-gene. Wich of course leeds me to more questions...  

Both Spread and grizzle are dominant, but is one of them more dominant than the other? Will both be cocks, hence they've got the color of their mother, or could it as well come from the father (blue/black?) Any possibilities that the youngsters will molt in white feathers?

I've read some posts about "mottle", and I think the hen is quite similar to the look, but is mottle just a "fancy" word? I cannot find it described anywhere in the genetic pages I've read.
Would you say this youngster pictured above has a poor quality spread? If so, is there anything to do about that, like pairing him (?) to the mother to get a double set of spread?
Lots of quesions, I know..


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

The father doesn't carry spread. His tail is blue with the terminal bar. Spread being dominant cannot be carried totally hidden.

I don't think the youngster shown in the picture can ever molt in white. Grizzle has several genes that cause the effect one of them can be hidden because it is hard to identify, but the form this hen is carrying appears to be Tiger Grizzle which is dominant and is not carried hidden. Tiger Grizzle should have shown up as at least a few white feathers and the bird would get whiter with age. If you keep raising off the pair sooner or later you will get a Tiger Grizzle bird off them, it may or may not be Spread like the mother. The Modena father is carrying Modena bronze, and some bronzes can show as whitish checks or bars in outcrosses in don't know if the Modena form of bronzes (three types in Modenas) cause the white bars and checks, but even if they do Spread may cover that effect. Just looking at the picture the young bird has some light kite looking bronze in the shield I think that is from the Modena bronze.

Crossing breeds is always a smorgasbord as to what is going to come out in the youngsters.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Sorry for beeing this late to say thank you for your answer, Chuck, better late than never though. I really do appreciate your time and effort 

So I understand it can be both cock and hen, and I'll just have to wait to see. 
This couple had another two babies in their nest, and now they are just big enough to show their "true color". And guess what! One having 3 feathers of white on it's rump, and the other having 3 white feathers somewhat underneath. Such a surprise when I noticed  
This will be the last babies for them this season.


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

That one looks like it is going to have a crest. The feathers on the neck and back of the head appear reversed.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Yes, I noticed as well.. in fact, both have the reversed neck But, I wanted these offsprings for adding a new color to my Sottobancas, and they have a crest as well, so that could work out just fine  Interesting to see what the size of the babies will be when grown up..


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

A little update on this family  No reversed neck, I am pretty sure all 4 of them had as squabs. By now, all of them look the same in size and form. Even color, but the two youngest nestmates have not had their first molt yet, and I expect them to molt in more white. 
The very first baby from this couple turned out to be a hen, and mated up to a Sottobanca. Sitting for the fifth day on her eggs right now.


----------



## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Oh what beautiful birds they all are, I love the black ones and never knew there actually were black pigeons. So many variations in pigeons that it blows my mind and all are beautiful - along with their wonderful personalities too.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You have really lovely birds!


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Sorry to interrupt the flow.

pigeonlover0309 is a troll, and it's post has been removed, having been reported by another member (thank you  )

pigeonlover0309 has been banned.


----------



## hamza syed (Jun 22, 2012)

Really Good looking birds Hopefully to see more of them soon


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Thank you for all your kind comments on behalf of my pigeons 
I think I need to update a little, and also add some photos too. 

The first clutch of eggs was emty, but then she layed another couple, and both hatced. I am not sure what I got, but oh my gosh they look lovely!! Just see for your self.. 
The ash yellow is of course a hen, and the grey (lavender I presume ?) has some small black flecks in his tail indicating beeing a cock. 
Father beeing an ash red and the mother is the oldest of the black spread-chicks in an earlier photo in this tread.
My main reason for the mix was to add some new colors to me otherwise very ash red Sottobancas.. 
The two squabs lack the crest though, but I hope to get that back within a couple of crossbacks. But I'm VERY satisfied and exited with the colors, hoping they will not change to much during the molt.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Duplikat message.. so I deleted it.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

I have a problem with my pictures beeing very big, I'm sorry but I can't figure out how to make them smaller. Anyhow, I also would like to present a squab from the black/white tigergrizzle hen mentioned earlier in the tread, and an ash red Sottobanca carrying blue. He looks more like the lavender I'd expect from an ash red x spread, but he is also a tigergrizzle I guess due to the white flecks on his head. He is about 10 days older than the siblings.


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

There is a free software called IrfanView that has an option to resize photographs along with dozens of other neat options.


----------



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Thanks  I'll download and try it for the next time


----------

