# color help please



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

Hello
My name is Pape, from Senegal in West Africa. I have been raising pigeons for just under a year and I absolutely am hooked. Just love them. I have a pair of homers that I mated to find out what colors and patterns they will produce. I am almost sure that the hen is tiger grizzle and that she carries the gene for crest. I am having a lot of trouble identifying the color of the cock. On the picture you cannot see it but the cock has 2 reddish bars that are faded. you barely see them. 
Help identifying him will be greatly appreciated.
thanks


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

Anyone please


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Color*

The picture of the cock makes it difficult for a positive ID, but from the picture and your description of the faded red bars I believe your cock bird is a spread ash red bar. With spread on ash red bars the ash is spread out to a silvery light gray, but the red/bronze often still shows through in the bars.

This expression of the bars doesn't always happen with spread ash red. I suspect that when it does occur it is due to some bronze factor being present.


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

*closer pictures*

Thanks Chuck for the info. Here are closer pictures of the cock. So from my understanding of how this works, they should produce ash red bar grizzle youngs.


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

That pair could produce a lot of different variations.

They could produce ash red grizzles. Some of them will be barred if the hen carries bar. The hen's grizzle is covering up what pattern or patterns she is carrying. You may not be able to see the pattern in the youngsters since you have two genetic factors at work that can cover the pattern, spread and grizzle.

I don't see any black flecking in the cock bird so he probably doesn't carry blue. If that is true every youngster is going to be ash red, but the young cocks will carry blue. Some of the young will be spread ash unless the cock's spread factor is homozgous in which case all youngsters will be spread ash.

The picture of the cock bird looks like he might also carry some grizzle factor. It he does you may produce some birds that are very close to being totally white. If they produce white birds, and the cock bird carries bronze you may produce some whites with some bronze feathering showing.


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

*thanks*

hi chuck. thank you for your reply. we'll soon find out more as a pair of their eggs just hatched two days ago under foster parents. plus this pair is laying on another pair of eggs due to hatch in about 10 days or so. I'll post an update asap.
thanks again


----------



## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Nice looking homers. Do you race?


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

beatlemike said:


> Nice looking homers. Do you race?


thanks beatlemike. no, i have not started racing yet. i'll start doing so sometime in the near future when i move to a bigger space. do you?


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

*pictures*

hello y'all
here are the pics of the first squabs. seem like the cock carries blue.


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Blues*

My assessment of the cock being spread ash may have been wrong. The odds were pretty high of the cock throwing some ash and spread ash young if that had been the case. The picture of the cock bird doesn't appear to show the blue flecking which is usually there to throw blue young.

The cock bird could be a brown, but that is not real common among homers, but it would account for the two blue youngsters from the blue / grizzle hen.
If the blue is coming only from the hen these two will both be cock birds. If one or both are hens this cock does indeed carry blue or you have another cock in the loft that tread the hen.

It will be interesting to see another round if they have them.


----------



## westafricanhomers (Mar 28, 2016)

in fact, there's a second round that's 3 days old. we'll see how it goes.as for the hen fooling around,lol, there isn't a chance. my breeders are all in separate boxes.i'll try to upload an album so you can check out my beloved birds. 
the picture of the cock was taken with a cheap Chinese phone. i'll post better pictures from a better camera so you can get a better look at this puzzle


----------



## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

If the cock is ash-red carrying blue, the young will be about 50% ash-red and 50% blue - in *both* sexes. The parents genotype cannot be determined by such a small sample of young, at the very least 6 or 8 young would give you a more accurate idea. The next two youngsters could be ash-red, they could be blue, it depends how the genes recombine. These predicted percentages are the result of many, many matings under controlled conditions. You're not going to get an ash-red and blue/black in each nest.
Both youngsters are grizzle.


----------



## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

I think that smallest youngster may be a black and white instead of blue. It doesn't have enough feather in the picture to be sure. If it is black then the odds are my original statement that the cock is spread ash was probably correct.


----------

