# Neighbor Hates Pigeons



## 75 mph

Dear Pigeon Lovers,
This is an open letter asking for your help. I’m not a regular, just a lady who feeds birds. I have come to your site in the past seeking advice for injured doves and a baby pigeon I found in my yard, which I thank all of you for in your gracious comments and encouragement. I have a new problem more dismal. I will try to keep this brief and to the point.
Sadly, I have a new, next door neighbor that moved in 6 months ago who does not like the pigeons that frequent my yard. There are about 20 pigeons that come to feed, sometimes more, sometimes less. The pigeons sit on top of my roof line throughout the day, coming and going. Either it’s me or just people looking for reasons not to like pigeons but the ones that come to my yard are not the messy, flying pests that have been described as pooping all over the place. I sweep once every day, well almost. Their poops are mostly little round balls not huge splats. 
My neighbor’s first comment about the birds was “my wife mentioned that there are a lot birds around here”. I happily agreed and said that I fed the birds. After that he asked my husband if we would stop feeding the birds. Then he asked me personally saying that the pigeons were creating a mess with their droppings on his side yard. I was surprised; they don’t usually land on his roof but every once in a while there is a couple that sit on his chimney, the prior neighbors (3 sets of families) had never complained and not even my patio, with the pigeons sitting overhead, was as littered with the amount of poop he had described was in his yard. But for sake of what could be a difference of opinion and tolerability I offered to have my husband go over and power-wash his patio. He declined, instead insisting that I stop feeding the birds. Naturally being a good neighbor it’s important to me that I address complaints and at the very least be cognizant of his findings. So I made it a point to check his patio and side walkway regularly. I am able to stand on a small bench that sits in my planter and see his patio & walkway on the other side of the block wall. I have never seen droppings on his patio but have observed a few occassional, probably 3-4 little balls on his side walkway just above is his chimney.
When I did not stop feeding the birds, he reported me to the HOA. I received a letter from the HOA which stated that my neighbor complained about the “high pigeon activity” which had created a problem for him. The letter pointed out that it was my responsibility to clean up after my “pets” and to keep their activity down as they were a nuisance to him. I contacted the city to find out about any ordinances that I might not be aware of regarding feeding wild birds.
Mr. Lasher, department head of city codes and ordinances, assured me there were no laws prohibiting the feeding of wild birds, pigeons included. He contacted animal control to check with their laws and said there were no regulations with them either. He said that the HOA was using a law designed for pets and that the HOA was “pushing” a pet law to make it fit around my neighbor’s complaint.
I wrote the HOA a letter stating that the pigeons were not pets, but wild birds and that nowhere in my yard had I erected any structure that would restrain them from flying away. I also made my home available for inspection at anytime so that they could see firsthand that the birds/pigeons were not pets and that what was described as high activity was in fact on some days as little as 5, on upward to 15-20 pigeons in number. The HOA responded to my letter and said that my appeal was denied. I called the HOA and Teda, our HOA representative, agreed to come to my home.
Last week Teda came to my home unannounced. We walked to the bird feeder hanging and she looked around and said “is this it?” implying “you’ve got to be kidding”. I said “yep, now I haven’t changed their water today and you kinda caught me off guard, as you can see I didn’t sweep the patio”. No huge piles of droppings or nasty splats just the few little balls I sweep off every day. She said that it was nothing of what she had expected. We stood in my yard for several minutes so that she could observe the pigeons sitting on my roof. Several times they flew off and then back again and each time they returned to my roof. I said that I had been checking his yard regularly for bird droppings and didn’t really see anything significant. She implied he had not reported droppings but that his high estimation of their number led the HOA to conclude that there must also be a high amount of droppings. I asked what the nuisance was that he reported in that as she could see, the pigeons were very quiet. It’s not like they are noisy, chirping or singing. She said he sent a picture to the HOA of the seed I was putting out and saying it was excessive. I have a hanging bird feeder and I do drop seed on the ground for the doves and pigeons but it’s gone by day’s end. As she could see it was not excessive. I stated it would be inhumane for starters to overpopulate a species, creating dependence on a source of unlimited feed that might well be inconsistent with nature itself. The seed attracts the birds true, but how does this “harm” his property if they are not pooping in his yard? I asked her if he sent a picture of the pigeon droppings in his yard. She said no, just a picture of the pigeons sitting on my house and the seed on the ground in my yard. 
The more I thought about it the more it did not make sense. So I’m thinking… Maybe he just doesn’t like birds and is using the pigeons as scape goats because he can’t realistically complain about “wild birds”. I’ve lived in my home 22 yrs. Even if I stopped feeding the birds, the pigeons would probably come. They’ve been here for as long as I can remember, even before I started feeding the birds. There were once farms here and they probably return because they were born here. Instead of the barn rafters they probably use the alcoves in homes to hatch their young.
So, that’s my story. I’m going to the HOA meeting on 2/10/11 to appeal. I’ve tried to be honest and forthcoming so that any advice you give me might be something they will listen to. I sometimes come across as arrogant but really its frustration in the lack of intellectual reasoning. When I hear “avian flu” and all the hype over “the carriers” I question our intelligence. My gosh, man would have been extinct billions of years ago if pathogens crossed between animal and human species. Yes, the H1N1 is said to have been the first but then there are scientists who say that from bird, to pig, to human is impossible and that this flu was engineered. But that’s a whole new subject. My point is that I am very analytical. I think “why, why not”.
I feed the birds because I find comfort in knowing that I make a difference in another’s life no matter what form. I will be sad if I must stop feeding the birds in the belief that the pigeons will go away. There is a part of me that revels for the underdog, in this case the pigeons. These guys have been given a bad rap, at least in my experience. All animals remind me that there is a world outside of myself; that I am a guardian, not the owner of what exists. When I look at their world I see tolerance and civility without the use of guns and hostility, in some ways a greater wisdom of negotiation and acceptance. They have so much to teach me, if I accept that I do not know everything. They have a purpose, should I not be so self-centered as to dismiss their importance. So tell me…. I haven't much time. What’s your best argument that I can present on behalf of the pigeons.


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## John_D

I'd say his complaint is groundless. He has not provided evidence of a nuisance, certainly not relating to his own property.

As it's getting near bedtime here, just a site with a few quotes from people who do know about pigeons for now

http://healthypigeons.yolasite.com/


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## lwerden

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/ExprtsRePijZoonos.html


75MPH you might want to print from the above web site to dispell any allegations regarding pigeons spreading disease.

I feed the pigeons in my yard as well and live in fear of my neighbors. I totally understand what you are going through.

Good Luck


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## 75 mph

I did straight away, all three pages  I also found some useful material that I printed from Trees Grey regarding pigeon misconseptions. Thank you so much for your support.


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## Jaye

It doesn't seem to me there is any applicable code or law which prevents you from doing this at all.

Also, the neighbor knew at the onset of them living there that you feed the birds. He said so himself.

So...no laws are being broken, no codes are being violated, and most importantly (and you should record this in some way).....the birds are NOT significantly soiling the neighbor's property or residing there.

On top of that...repeatedly point out that you have already offered to clean their property and you could also offer (or claim that you offered) to put up some anti-pigeon wires or such on the part of his roof where they frequent.

Regarding any health hazard....the onus is on them to prove there is any health hazard. You can simply point out the misconceptions of pigeon 'disease' and ask (demand) that they show scientific evidence to the contrary. Pointedly ask them to show evidence that feeding the birds on your property creates a health risk to their property or to them. They would be unable to come up with a reasonable reply.

Also...phrase the entire affair in the frame of "I have some birdfeeders on my property where I feed wild and feral birds, which is legal....and which the neighbor was aware of when they moved in. Now....this entire situation seems to be implying I do not have the right to do this. Is that what you are saying ? Because, if so...please direct me to the codes and laws which this violates, since according to Mr. Lasher there are no such ordinances".

Lastly...some legal advice would also be helpful....perhaps see if there is an IDA (In Defense of Animals) chapter near you. You are in CA and they are based in the Bay Area...so I'd imagine, being in-state...they can help. They provide good legal advice as well as actually advocating on your behalf as well.

Do a websearch and CALL them, as opposed to e-mailing. Speak to a human there; even if there is no chapter more local to you than SF area. I have found them to be a very good ally in my Pigeon-neighbor-city affairs.

...way to go, BTW. You have done absolutely everything right so far.....


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## Cyreen

You neighbour's a dick; plain and simple, and he's using HOA to abuse you. As for the HOA, they're allegation is false by definition, there's nothing to appeal as they are not your pets. Unfortunately, I suspect this is just the beginning with your neighbour (I don't think you'll be swapping cookies at Christmas).

I occurs to me, was he trespassing on your property to take his pictures?


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## doveone52

Agreed with Cyreen! He sounds like one of those impossible, super controlling people we must deal with on occasion. It's their way or the highway. Today, wild birds, tomorrow something else. Don't even try to convince him of anything because you're wasting your time and feeding his arrogance! You must, however, convince the HOA. Go in armed to the teeth and if you come off arrogant, that's even better. The IDA people should have some good advice for you.
Thank you for all you're doing for these birds and am praying all goes well for you and them!


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## spirit wings

IMO, I think you should not have to defend yourself for feeding the birds..all of them.. so I would just go on as you have and let them come to you..they can't! unless they outlaw feeding the birds..I think the less said the better...unless they present you with something..THEN fight it..


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## shalimar

Hi, you sound like a very caring person...and I wish you the best of luck with your situation. I do have one suggestion after reading your post. I would not stop feeding the birds, but what might help if you feed the birds the seed without shells. Do not know if this would help, but at least they cannot complain about the shells around on the ground.


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## Msfreebird

Cyreen said:


> You neighbour's a dick; plain and simple, and he's using HOA to abuse you. As for the HOA, they're allegation is false by definition, there's nothing to appeal as they are not your pets. Unfortunately, I suspect this is just the beginning with your neighbour (I don't think you'll be swapping cookies at Christmas).
> 
> I occurs to me, was he trespassing on your property to take his pictures?


I agree with this also!
You've lived there for over 20 years and this jemoke moves in and is going to tell YOU what you can do and not do?!!
I've always been a very passive person......and got walked on for it. It took me 50 years to put my foot down! I'd give him a good fight.......your not doing anything illegal and he is harassing you  I would go to that hearing with just enough information (laws and ordinances) to satisfy the HOA, BUT would also *inform* them and the neighbor that you are not going to tolerate this harassment!! There ARE laws against stalking and harassment


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## 75 mph

*Update*

Thank you all so much for your support, this mean so much to me. Having your feedback and advice gives me the hope that what I care about is a worthy cause. A quick update...
As suggested I did contact "In Defense of Animals" and spoke with Mr. Bill Dyer. As with you, he agreed that the HOA’s "pet" violation rule was ridiculous and callous. As for the nuisance claim, he said that while my neighbor finds the pigeons annoying, their presence alone should not be a claim. Mr. Dyer believed my neighbor would need to show “why” the pigeons were a nuisance to him and his property. He suggested I take pictures of his yard (side walkway, rooftop and backyard patio) showing no poo droppings and bring them with me to the meeting tonight. So… no shy gal here, I got out my step stool and clicked away. BBQ cover, patio table and chairs, pass through shelf, benches and every inch of his patio and side walkway, I’m happy to report, all free and clear. I even used the zoom feature! I must admit, there was one lonely poo on his chiming ledge. 
Mr. Dyer also gave me the phone number of a lawyer who might be better able to give me legal advice. I contacted the law office of Mr. Michael Rotsten (who happens to be an avid animal lover ) and he agreed that the pet infraction part of the HOA claim would not hold up in court, if it should go that far. The nuisance issue was a little different. If the pigeons were in some way damaging my neighbor’s property or restricting his backyard use, due to pigeon droppings, this would infringe on his enjoyment of personal space, and I could be found liable. Mr. Rotsten was somewhat perplexed that the board would take issue being that I responded in written appeal that the “pigeon activity” is limited to my PRIVATE yard and not my neighbor’s or communal property. He said that while the infraction notice (and the notice denying my appeal) sounds intimidating, it’s actually just a warning. Before I can be found in non compliance and charged a monetary fine the HOA board would need to substantiate the claim brought by my neighbor. He said to sit tight and let the HOA take me to court because according to the law there are procedures that they must follow first before a suit is claimed. Also each non compliance claim must be verified and documented. Meaning if the HOA started charging me fines and took me to court to collect, each fine would need to be documented and verified separately. My neighbor cannot simply allege I am violating a rule, and have the HOA believe him. The HOA must do their own investigation and collect evidence independent of the neighbor’s claim.
Mr. Rotsten said that it would be best to try and convince the board that the pigeons have caused no harm to my property or his and that he is able to use his personal space without pigeon droppings. Even though my property is mine, it is a community based on appearance and standards that are governed by CC&R’s with the intentions of protecting home owner investment.
I could ask myself a zillion different questions of why I care. Maybe you’re wondering too. I could reason it would be easier to let the issue go, let the pigeons find food someplace else. You might think that too. So, why? I don’t honestly know, I guess there must be a deeper part of me that believes all life has a purpose, regardless if I understand what that purpose is. 
I have read several stories/posts here and I am in awe of your devotion and love. I think these stories will be my best defense. I believe if I am able to show the better side of pigeons and how they have been companions, inspired, helped in a healing process, or have brought comfort in times of distress, rather than try and convince the HOA board that they are not a nuisance pest, I will accomplish far more. Sometimes passion and love far outweigh what any argument can settle. Please send me links to your story or personally send me an email of how pigeons have changed your lives. I will print everyone, promise, and send them to the board. Hopefully, I will have some to bring with me to tonight meeting. Keep my “ferals” in your prayers and God willing, wildlife wins!

They are but words on a paper that unite and bring strength to a cause. These words become powerful testaments to beliefs and ideals. Words, simple and unmeaning alone, when joined become a link to our understanding of hope and purpose. It is here that these words conjure a glimpse of what our Creator envisioned for us. 
Love.​


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## Kiko&Kalani

Just a thought: How well did you know your previous neighbor and can you contact them? If so, you could get them to attest to the lack of any nuisnace caused by the pigeons at the same property. Of course this could go the other way, so if you did not know your previous neighbor well and know that they would support you on this matter do not contact them for comment. 

I also agree with cyreen; this guy is a jerk. If I were you, I would find out as much as possible about him (know your enemy). One thing to remember, you cannot negotiate with someone who is irrational, so don't even bother trying. Deal strickly with the HOA or an attorny. Also, avoid any further contact with him or his property (this way he cannot accuse you of anything). If he contacts you tell him to put it in writing and mail it to you, you will no longer entertain any verbal conversation with him. Finally, make sure you keep a calendar of "events" (when he contacted you what he said) and keep everything in writing! If you do decide to go to court, documentation will be very important (especially if you end up filing a harrassment suit). A judge is only interested in facts and if you do not have things in writing it comes down to he said/she said and neither of you have more credibility than the other to a judge. 

I wish you luck and hope to hear good news soon. 

Beth


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## Kiko&Kalani

Another thought: I don't know if it is such a good idea for you to show the pictures that you took of his property. He could turn that around on you as harrassment or something legal. I would make the HOA take photos to show as evidence of property damage instead. Besides, he only has to say that he had just cleaned everything up to nullify the pics anyway. Make the HOA do a surprise spot check of his property and take photos then.


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## Crazy Pete

Do you have a feeder for song birds, and for humming birds. Will you have to get rid of them next?
Dave


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## lwerden

Here's my story............If if can help you case, please feel free to use it.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f87/how-i-met-my-jack-29104.html?highlight=jack's+story


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## The_Dirteeone

I would continue to feed them and kindly ignore them.If they become rude,tell them to kiss [email protected]$$.


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## 75 mph

Yes, I am on good terms with the prior neighbors and would be able to contact them and ask if they would appear before the board on my behalf. The neighbor on the other side of me moved about a year ago and we are still friends. She lived in the home for 21 years and I’m sure would submit a letter on my behalf, she moved out of state, especially because two pigeons lived in an alcove part of her roof and she thought their cooing was the cutest thing ever. Also a few weeks ago I asked my other next door neighbor and some of the other neighbors next to me, as well as those directly behind me if the pigeons were bothering them and they all said no. 
The story of Jack is heartwarming, thank you Louise. I will bring it with me tonight.


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## 75 mph

*Update*

My husband and I met with the board. Teda, HOA representative from Community Property Management, opened the conversation with "the homeowner that filed the complaint called me today saying he wished to retract his complaint”. I sat there dumbfounded. Me, with a "why" middle name… Humm, two possibilities, I’ve lived here a long time and everything down to a tree you plant has to be board approved and your next door neighbors, the two beside you and the two behind you, need to sign off on the “plans”, so maybe he wants something OR he’s had a change of heart and now the birds don’t bother him. They have all agreed the pigeons are not pets. The board was unable to confirm a nuisance; it appears as this time they have no grounds to make me stop. I did not need to show pictures as they felt the matter was resolved. 
However, the board did try and convince me to stop feeding the pigeons I suspect because of one board member’s early experience with mites. He said that as a young child he had a terrible experience with pigeons. He said they built nests in his roof and the house was infested with mites. I said lots of animals have mites, dogs for instance. His response was, but would a dog with mites go into his yard? I should have said cats, they jump walls! I quenched any further discussion about pigeons caring disease, noting that a pigeon has a body temperature of 107 and their microbes could not survive in a human temp of 98. I will continue to feed the songbirds and pigeons  Thank You all for your support.
Ps.. I'd still love to hear your stories.. maybe I should send them next door. Bye for now


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## lwerden

I'm so very happy that this has worked out for you.

Just a note of caution, watch the guy next door very carefully. Although he has retracted his complaint I believe his intentions are not honorable. I know from experience what these type of people are capable of........just be on the lookout for any suspecious behavior.


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## 75 mph

Louise, 
I agree, my gut instinct tells me somethings not right. I'm baffled why he would change his mind after being so adamant that I stop feeding the birds. Thanks for you're support.


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## drifter

He's probably just a little bit of an eccentric. If you live long enough on this earth you'll occasionally bump into these kinds of people. Chances are if he'll find something else to complain about. It might be the property line, or you're mowing on his side of the line, your visitors are parking in front of his house, he doesn't like the color you painted your house, your visitors kids ran across his lawn, etc., etc., etc.


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## Msfreebird

I agree! I would keep an eye on him.......people like this most always have a 'method to their ways'  ......he wants something 
But congratulations on the 'first round'


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## Kiko&Kalani

grifter said:


> He's probably just a little bit of an eccentric. If you live long enough on this earth you'll occasionally bump into these kinds of people. Chances are if he'll find something else to complain about. It might be the property line, or you're mowing on his side of the line, your visitors are parking in front of his house, he doesn't like the color you painted your house, your visitors kids ran across his lawn, etc., etc., etc.


Sad but true. I'm so sorry for you that you have to now live next door to such a trouble maker.  Never say never (but the % is very very low) but I do not think that people like that change for real. They may pretend to "play nice" for a while but in the end they always return to their true nature. Once a snake always a snake, don't fall for any fake friendship offers. 
Beth


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## Skyeking

Kiko&Kalani said:


> Sad but true. I'm so sorry for you that you have to now live next door to such a trouble maker.  Never say never (but the % is very very low) but I do not think that people like that change for real. They may pretend to "play nice" for a while but in the end they always return to their true nature. Once a snake always a snake, don't fall for any fake friendship offers.
> Beth


DITTO!

Keep all your information, pictures and contacts for possible future use and keep your guard up.

Good luck to you! You sound like a wonderful person and I certainly wouldn't mind having you as my neighbor.


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## 75 mph

You all are sooo special. *Thank you so much for your support. *I did so much research that I think they were a bit off guard. They started asking me about other birds namely what to do about the crows. I said they're Federally protected, so not much. (Oh how I wish Pigeons were, crows got Fed protection cuz they migrate all of 6 miles lol) I did say that I actually made a fake crow using true measurements. It's so real looking that even when we have the helicopters checking for dead birds (West Nile) in our area, they'd circle my house. I put "Fake dead Fred" out in the spring and the crows come, gathering on rooftops, then fly up in a circle, wailing out a mourning sound, then they're gone. 
So, at present my little ferals are safe. Plus I moved their 2 make shift bathing tubs (which are really super large plant saucers) to where he can't see them and I feed them close to our common wall so he can't see the seed on the ground either unless he stands on a step stool and looks over the wall. Plus, now they fly away from his house if they get startled. RE the mites I've read several articles and it doesn't appear to really affect me cuz they don't roost here they just eat. It would be highly they'd jump off to be in the bushes when they have a living host. It could happen I guess, but I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Bye for now... and Happy Friday


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## JRNY

Congrats. But keep a close eye on mister neighbor.


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## considerate neighbor

You have all forgotten to ask yourselves the question: Am I doing something that affects others in a negative way; causing time, effort and money? 

In your haste to chastise others you have lost sight of consideration. If you showed only a fraction of thought towards others that you do for your birds then you would not need to use this forum to complain.

You are all falling trap to one of the most heinous of human traits. These traits have cause wars and killing. It always starts with "I want to have what I want but I don't want you to have what you want".

You all feel that what you want - to have all these pigeons for reasons of nesting, habitat, training or just because you love pigeons - is ok because you want it.

But yet you all feel that the neighbor that doesn't want the same thing is wrong.

Why is it ok for you to have pigeons - but - at the same time - not ok for someone that doesn't want pigeons.

If you live in an area that has neighbors close by you have to realize that you are not alone and what you do affects others.

What is one of your neighbors is doing something that affects you in a negative way and causes you to spend time, effort, money and/or the ruination of "quiet enjoyment"? 

By some of the comments made as I read thru I KNOW that most of you would be THE FIRST TO COMPLAIN. Yet, you don't like it when a neighbor isn't as happy about cleaning up bird poop, not being able to hang laundry in yard, not being able to give outdoor parties, not being able to sit outside, being REAL CONCERNED THAT THIS MAY BE A HINDRANCE TO CURB APPEAL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I do, however, have a suggestion for all of you and here it is:

If you love pigeons and want to build habitats, whistle and train or generally keeps a lot of pigeons then buy a 10 acre plot of land and build your home and coop in the middle of it - then you won't have neighbors right around to complain.

Regards,
A bird and habitat lover BUT A CONSIDERATE NEIGHBOR FIRST!


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## considerate neighbor

*Message For All Of You*

You have all forgotten to ask yourselves the question: Am I doing something that affects others in a negative way; causing time, effort and money? 

In your haste to chastise others you have lost sight of consideration. If you showed only a fraction of thought towards others that you do for your birds then you would not need to use this forum to complain.

You are all falling trap to one of the most heinous of human traits. These traits have cause wars and killing. It always starts with "I want to have what I want but I don't want you to have what you want".

You all feel that what you want - to have all these pigeons for reasons of nesting, habitat, training or just because you love pigeons - is ok because you want it.

But yet you all feel that the neighbor that doesn't want the same thing is wrong.

Why is it ok for you to have pigeons - but - at the same time - not ok for someone that doesn't want pigeons.

If you live in an area that has neighbors close by you have to realize that you are not alone and what you do affects others.

What if one of your neighbors is doing something that affects you in a negative way and causes you to spend time, effort, money and/or the ruination of "quiet enjoyment"? 

By some of the comments made as I read thru I KNOW that most of you would be THE FIRST TO COMPLAIN. Yet, you don't like it when a neighbor isn't as happy about cleaning up bird poop, not being able to hang laundry in yard, not being able to give outdoor parties, not being able to sit outside, being REAL CONCERNED THAT THIS MAY BE A HINDRANCE TO CURB APPEAL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I do, however, have a suggestion for all of you and here it is:

If you love pigeons and want to build habitats, whistle and train or generally keeps a lot of pigeons then buy a 10 acre plot of land and build your home and coop in the middle of it - then you won't have neighbors right around to complain.

Regards,
A bird and habitat lover BUT A CONSIDERATE NEIGHBOR FIRST!


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## Jay3

This thread is almost 4 years old.


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## considerate neighbor

Don't bother to reply to my posting unless you make sense!


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## Jay3

I agree that if the birds are landing in the neighbors yard and pooping on thier deck, and otherwise causing problems for that neighbor, then in being considerate, you shouldn't attract them. But there are also neighbors that don't like pigeons, and they will do everything they can to stop someone else from having them. If they are interfering with your life by causing damage, then you have a point. You really do. But if they aren't coming over to your property or leaving droppings around where you should have the right to not have them, then you should have rights too.
That being said, if a person feeds the wild birds responsibly, and yet a few pigeons do come around, then what would you have them do? Stop bird feeding altogether? Don't think that would be fair to the person who enjoys the songbirds, as they should be able to enjoy their property also. They should be able to enjoy them in their yard. So I guess both sides have a point and there is a middle ground.................somewhere.


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## jak2002003

*Being considerate.*

I had a similar experience at my old house.

I had a neighbour who moved in after us... at first he seemed nice.. they were a retired couple. But soon he started to act strange and he kept complaining about things I was doing that annoyed him... at first I took it seriously.. not wanting to upset people around me... I like to be on friendly terms with my neighbours.

But over time I realised I was actually not doing anything wrong.. and his complaints were getting worse and worse.. to the point I stopped feeling guilty and trying to change what I was doing.. to the point I was angry with him and just ignored him and his complaints.

Here were some of the complaints:

Ivy plant was growing over my fence into his garden

My budgies were too noisy in the aviary (I only had 10)

My dog was barking when I went out (not true.. I pretended to go out several times and hid outside to listen and my dog did not bark).

My patio light was too bright and shone into his bedroom. (I only turned it on a couple of times a week when I was sitting outside with friends in the early evening).

He thought I should pay for a drain down the middle of our shared driveway as it flooded when it rained heavily (the water went away after about 30 mins)

My cat was pooing in his garden... (I did not even own a cat)

My dog was pooing on his front garden (I never let my dog loose in the street and when I take it out for a walk its got its lead on.. and it never has pooed on his garden!

Finally I had enough when he started complaining about my garden doves.. I had 8 birds. They were housed in an aviary and only allowed out once a day when I was home from work. They stayed out about one hour and when back in. 

He said they were pooing all over his patio, roof, eating his vegetables and encouraging rats into his garden!!!!!!!

Well they never landed in his garden.. they don't eat vegetables, and they spend most of the time either on top of their aviary or on my house roof. There were no rats... I never left feed laying about on the floor.. 

He would sit in his conservatory all day waiting for me to let the doves out.

As soon as he saw them he would come running out of the house waving a broom about shouting and swearing at them... banging the broom on the fence to make them fly off their aviary onto the house roof. Then he would stand in the middle of his garden, hands on his hips watching them.. and if he thought I was not about he would start throwing stones at them!!!

He was just crazy... and then he goes a actually buys his wife a dog which howled on and off all day every day.. even with him there.. as he just shut it out in the garden!

Sadly I found my doves all dead one day when I returned from holiday. My mother was looking after then and she told me one day she went to feed them they were dead on the floor of the aviary. They had food and water, and she had looked after them many times before. I was sure it was something to do with the neighbour.. but I had no proof.. and I told him my doves were dead.. and he said it was because the other neighbour had a party and loud fireworks and that probably scared them to death.. well I don't believe that... but I could do nothing.

I am pleased to say I have moved away because of work. In my new place I have 20 garden doves, 6 chickens and 4 ducks. My neighbours are all very friendly.. they have chickens and dogs, cats, etc.. and there are no problems.

Some people just hate pigeons for no reason.. they have a stigma attached to them. They will convince themselves that the pigeons are dangerous and disgusting and try to make you get rid of them.

So long as you keep them clean and tidy.. don't let them free fly all day and get into trouble on neighbours property.. you are not doing anything wrong.. or annoying to any normal person.


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## cwebster

Am very sorry for the loss of your doves but am glad you moved. We have a nasty neighbor and wish we could move.


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## wiggles and puddles

I think some people try to find a reason to be difficult and just hate animals regardless of what they are. When I was a kid my mother had bought me my very first horse when I was 3 years old. ( I still have him!) She had her thoroughbred and I had my mini. Our neighbor hated them, even though our place was kept like a park, and our horses were very well behaved. She would do everything to get us to leave, and finally my mom said "you can look at our two horses and a park like setting or a bunch of houses because we will sell to the developer who has wanted this place for years" the woman didn't think we could do that and went on to be horrible. So we sold to said developer, and bought another place. The lady was furious, because all of a year later, several duplexes went up, and the value of her place plummeted. Karma can bite one in the behind.


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## Jay3

We had a neighbor like that. Her nose in everyones business on the str, and she lived right next door to us. It was horrible for about 25 years, and then she finally passed away. I have no idea why some people are just so miserable. I think they are just not very happy, and so they don't like to see anyone else happy. I used to get so mad at her, but then I tried to change the way I felt, as I don't like to hate anyone. So then I would look at her and think_ "It must be horrible to be her"_ and I could actually feel sorry for her. People like that are unfortunately everywhere.


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## jak2002003

*neighbours*

Its very nice to hear about other people experiences.. and that so many people forgive and actually really care about their awkward annoying neighbours.. or at least try to ignore them.

Its goes to show the nice side of people.. especially, it seems, how caring and kind us pigeon lovers are!


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## Jay3

Well, that would be a lot harder to do if my birds had shown up dead. Some people are just too much. Aren't you glad you're not that person? See............something to be thankful for!


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## c.hert

That's a sad story jak2002003 and I am so sorry that you experienced that and glad you moved away. I have a loft and fly pen and I am fortunate so far as we all mind our own business. I would like to get away so that I am further away from people next door but at my age that ain't going to happen. But bad neighbors can be a real pain in the ass. So glad your secure now with your birdies and pets..Thanks for sharing..


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