# Growing up, saved feral squabs (pix)



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi...

So, some of you may recall a thread my wife had put up some weeks back about feral pigeons nesting outside our window in our loft, building management freaking out, and her getting a call in which the building manager fairly screamed: "Get those ***dam**d birds out of there or I will kill them."

Well, given that information, we acted on the information we had. We took them in. And took to hand-rearing them. What an adventure! And you may have read some of our posts during the past few weeks. It seems only fair, plus we're pretty darned proud adoptive human parents, that, after all of your support and help, we put up some pictures.

Prospero and Persephone are marvelous creatures and now getting quite inquisitive. Prospero can fly about six feet now and Persephone, the littler one, can hop about and both practice vigorous flapping both in their hut and when they're out and about in the loft. They hatched April 19 and the sunbathing and paper towel photos were taken last weekend. Of course, they're even bigger now!

As for what to do when they're really strongly flying on their own, well, we've decided it's up to them. If, when our windows are open, and they choose to leave, well, as hard as that would be for us both, so be it. We want them to have a life they've chosen. At the same time, they perch on our shoulders, peep and wing flap when we come near, and hop up into our laps, which, obviously, suggests they may well be too tame either for a release or a soft release. And we also don't want to let them fly off to a certain death. We'll leave it up to them but certainly take into account how tame they are. With any luck, we'll have new family members for a good, long time.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/minim...g.photos.yahoo.com/ph/minimonkeys33/my_photos


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

So glad the babies are doing well. Appreciate the update.  
Your photos are wonderful. Many thanks for sharing them with us.

Please do keep us posted. 

Cindy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Minimonkey, 


Great update on these two, they look very well cared for and healthy! I see in some of those pictures you've had quite the messy time with the formula, LOL. Good work and thanks for the pics and update on Prospero and Persephone


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi minimonkey,


Wonderful...!  


All the Pigeopn Babys I ever raised, as you mention with yours, were very sociable and enthusiastic and socialized into my looking after them as the Uncle or surrogate parent I was/am. This is the right and normal nature of their needed sense of being accepted, and of their feelings of safety and comfort to have accepted the situation, and to have been accepted by the situation.

Once assimilated into a Wild Flock, they soon became as Wild as any of their feral fellows, and internalize from their wild peers and elders, the nuances and protocalls of feral awarensses and responses.

I have never seen any reason to be concerned about their infant to juvenile 'tameness', as, it is not really tameness so much as the necessary transferance pro-tem, of their natural reliances on being cared for, and for their social comforts and enthusiasms which they would have had with their biological parents. Usually, too, once they acheive a certain phase of their adolesence, and can be allowed in progressive phases, to graze and to socialize with the Wild Birds, they will soon wish to join them for keeps. 

Normally, for that matter, they tend to seperate from their biological parents in ferae contexts, and do not tend to continue to socialize with them anyway, but for incidental nearness in foraging or grazing.

You may not have as easy access to a wild Flock as I do, which for me, are right outside my door every day. Where, these phases of introduction for juvenile youngsters are easy for me to do and for the youngsters to come back in on their own volition or for me calling them the first few times of sequential day's outings. After a few of which, they elect to retire with the wild ones to the evening roosts of the Flock...and are then ipso-facto, new and accepting, and accepted, members of the Flock.

Nice work..!

What cute and charming 'cuddlers'...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The access to a feral flock is part of our worry, actually. The flock that was roosting on our rafters has become "pigeona non grata" to our building managers, due to multiple complaints by the downstairs residents (okay, I'm sure there *was* a lot of poop on the windows and cars, but so what???) They were threatening lethal means to rid the building of the flock, but have settled for a half-**ssed netting job, that is doing little to deter the continued roosting and nesting. We are in daily fear that something awful will happen to them  We're in the middle of a city, with few places for pigeons to live happy and healthy feral lives. 

That is the reason we had to take these fellows in in the first place.  I'm still sad we had to separate them from their parents, though we've loved every minute of having them with us, poop, mess, and all. I guess we'll play this all by ear -- I'm sure we can find a bird sanctuary somewhere to do a soft release if these guys seem eager to take to the skies..... (in which case, we will seek out a pair of tame fantails, who can't live well in the wild, anyhoo....) I'd sure miss them terribly if they wanted to leave, but I'd feel worse if I felt they were "captives".


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Minimonkey, 

I'll think you'll find that they will probably want to stay with you. I think Phil is right that they _could_ and _would_ adapt to life in the wild as well if given a chance with a slow transition into the wild and a soft release. What I wouldn't do, is just leave windows open for them to "decide" whether or not to stay or go. A tame, hand reared pigeon(s) are very curious and might go out a window, get lost and never be able to return. ***This is what happened to one of our previous members, Izzy***In the meantime, they have no "street smarts" or foraging skills and would likely find a quick death. I don't see anything wrong myself with keeping the birds as long as they are happy, content and well adjusted. If later on down the road, you find that they are getting restless, bored and/or lonely, then you could decide about releasing them into a wild flock or perhaps a sanctuary. I think you're right though in not wanting to add fuel to the fire around your building by attracting more pigeons. Take it day by day


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Brad -- thanks for your reply. Yeah -- we were concerned about them not being savvy enough for the wild ourselves --- thanks for the warning about previous member's experiences! So far, they aren't showing the slightest curiosity about the windows (which are closed when they are out, as they are just getting the hang of flying, and we certainly don't want them going out right now!) They are flying about more and more -- Persephone truly took to the air for the first time this morning. Prospero is learning to do circles and fancy landings and such. Their favorite perching spot is on the high back of an upholstered chair. They seem to be pretty content at the moment.

We've had such an easy time with these guys, so far. They weaned without the slightest effort on our part -- we produced seeds, they pecked at them, and were swallowing them regularly within a couple of days, and preferring them to the mash. They've learned to fly quite naturally -- and they do like to flap around, but also enjoy a good shoulder perch or lap and lots of pets and snuggles!


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Minimonkey,
Brad is so right in the info he gave you. Living with you is all these birds know and they sure look happy in your pics, happy and healthy, and well cared for. heck, if I was a pigeon, I'd stay with you!!! Just think, with you they have food and water at all times, no exposure to diseases , cars, predators, bad weather, poison, cruel people, oh, the list is never ending. These birds obviously have free fly time, and don't know what they are not missing. I think it would be different if there were only one pigeon, that one bird would be lonesome, but two, no problem. 
Daryl


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## photokev (Apr 15, 2005)

Hey MM.
First, great job!
With the pidgeon I rescued I couldn't decide what to do either so I left it up to her. I jus left my window open all day and eventually she flew off but did return. She now spends her days here in my studio and her nights out in the wild.

On the about us page on my website I have a live streaming cam that she may or may not be on, but you can check it out anyway. (note, it takes about 10 seconds to load...)

http://www.blueplanetps.com/aboutus.html

Kevin


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

My first rescue, Angel, was going with me everywhere, even when cleaning the balcony where I had four pigeon residents at the time she never flew off. One day, when she was about 4-5 months old she did take off, she flew around the building, then went to the tree in front of the building, with no intention of coming back home. Then she took off for good. I was sick with worry and did nothing for the next 20 hours but wait for her on the balcony. During the night I left the lights on and the balcony door open for just in case she wanted to come back. Finally she showed up the next day, walked past me without even giving me a look, straight to the seeds and water and then to bed where she slept for the longest time.
She never wanted out again, never even goes to the window or door for the past two years.
Tiny, whom I took to the balcony several times when he was 3 months old to introduce him to my flock, all he did was go to the door wanting back in, jumping up and down, screaming. It was hearbreaking, so I always let him back in. He never made an attempt to go out, he is very happy indoors.
Another example, my PMV birdie who passed away last year, he was looking through the balcony door at the flock feeding outside. He couldn't fly, so I wasn't worried he was going anywhere. I opened the door for him to go out. As soon as he realized the door was open he turned around and ran back to his room (the den was his room, nobody was allowed in there, but me)

So, pigeons can be very happy and content indoors. If this is what they want, why not. 

Reti


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## surfingpigeon (Apr 28, 2005)

Those pictures are so adorable! The squabs seem to be growing up real fast.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Minimonkey.

I think their happiness lies in your happiness. You seem to have a mutual love and respect for each other. If you cannot find a place to release that is safe from predators (especially humans) with food and shelter, I think it is in their best interest to stay with you. 

Good luck, and thank you for sharing pictures of your babies.

Treesa


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi, all. I know this is an old thread but we wanted to offer an update (some of you may have seen our other thread with a link to pics of juvenile geese, flickers, and of our own guys).

Prospero & Persephone seem very happy indeed in our home. They're out of their "hut" at least two hours a day and we have 12-foot ceilings in our space so they have lots of room in which to flap about. We live in a loft, so there are lots high places for them to perch, nap and preen and such. 

We did have a scare, though, a couple of weeks ago. I was out of town, and, at 7 a.m., my cell phone rings. It's my better half. "Hi, sweetie, I'm having a pigeon emergency," she says. So, what happened was, the guys were perched on top of one of our windows (they're hinged in the middle on either side, so as you open the window, the bottom goes out and the top comes in). My wife was nervous and gently put her hand up to shoo them away. Persephone did as expected and flew to another perch in our home; Prospero, however, lost his balance, and basically slid down the window to the outside, flapping, backside first.

He flew about 100 feet and settled, but clearly wanted to get back to where he came from. He knew generally where he came from and flapped up to one of our neighbor's open windows and was trying to get inside there (all this going on while I'm on the cell phone with my wife). "Hmmm, grab a seed bowl, lean out the window and shake it and call his name," I said. Which she did, standing on our sofa, leaning out one of our windows, shaking the bowl and pleading for him to come back in. Well, once he figured out _which_ window he'd slipped out of, he got in right away. My wife said that he flapped back in with the same intensity with which he'd tried not to slip out in the first place.

They're warming up, a little bit. Not big on pets and stroking and such, but bath time is quite a communal thing and they've taken again to clamoring up our arms to our shoulders and landing on my wife's head. I do think, however, they're a bit wary of me because I'm a guy. Oh well. Sorry this is so long, but wanted to give you all our "close call" and an update. 

P.S. When we let them out now for flap time, the windows are closed enough so they can't inadvertently get out!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Mr. MiniMonkey, 

Wow, what a close call and how smart of Prospero to figure out his way back!!!! That would have been so tragic if he had lost his way and flew off. 

Yes, open windows are a constant danger that bird owners have to always be on guard for.

Glad everything is ok for you guys now


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Howdy, Brad -

Yeah, it was a pretty close call. Good thing he was wanting to get back home and perhaps a bit hungry, too! We definitely tip our hat to Prospero on figuring out which window he'd slipped out of.

I think he also wanted to get back -- to heck with us humans -- to his sister, and, well, since there are only two pigeons in here, one male and one female, his mate. Suffice to say, once they get a bit older, that's going to be something. Replace real eggs with wooden eggs, anyone?

Finally, the windows are only open wide -- when it's warm -- when they're in their hut!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Mr.MM, 

If I may suggest, perhaps you should consider getting some screens for your windows. This way you don't have to worry all the time and be on constant watch. Pigeons have a way of finding trouble all the time and windows are a place they like to be near and watching out of. In a flash of the wings, one of your babies could fly to the window again and slide down and out. 

As for the two of them hooking up, mating and laying eggs, dummy's are the way to go for numerous reasons. 1) you might soon have more babies than you want and 2) their offspring might be compromised being so close, genetically.

I"m not sure how it will work out for them as a pair down the road. My own hand reared pair were very close for about 7 months. After this amount of time, they became disinterested in each other and now, only tolerate one another. They have become rivals now, fighting over food, perches and space. This could be because they are looking for outside mates now and they can see their parents in their room. This may not happen to your two, but I'm just warning you in case


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