# Are grits removed during the racing season?



## de Vera Loft (Mar 11, 2009)

Are grits removed during the racing season?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

de Vera Loft said:


> Are grits removed during the racing season?


NO!!!  Pigeons need access to fresh grit 24/7, year round. Their digestive systems don't work properly without it. This is an ongoing need and should be supplied at all times.

Dan


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

de Vera Loft said:


> Are grits removed during the racing season?


I remove the grit shipping day and the day before shipping.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

learning said:


> NO!!!  Pigeons need access to fresh grit 24/7, year round. Their digestive systems don't work properly without it. This is an ongoing need and should be supplied at all times.
> 
> Dan



Right on!!


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

irishsyndicate said:


> I remove the grit shipping day and the day before shipping.


I am curious as to the reasoning behind this. What purpose does this serve? We all have our little racing secrets, I know, but I am interested to know what this accomplishes.

Thanks,

Dan


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Perhaps because grit doesn't serve any value as far as energy goes. Or maybe grit can make pigeons thirsty?  I don't know why.
Depending on what you feed prior to the race I think it is important to provide at least a very small amount of grit, so it doesn't work the body so hard to digest it. If you feed small seed, or pellets, grit may not be as important. But if you have any corn in there, they definitely need it.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

de Vera Loft said:


> Are grits removed during the racing season?


 I'm thinking the reasoning or thinking behind removing grit on shipping day, is to avoid any extra weight. On shipping to a short race, with good weather, some fanciers may even skip the meal altogether. I don't know how much difference on the margin it might make. I lost a club race in 2007 by two seconds, and I won a race by 2 seconds. Could not feeding grit on shipping day to a short and fast race make 2 seconds of difference ??? If one would like to find out, then if you ship 20 birds, feed 10 of them their grit and feed and just water for the other 10. Perhaps after a season or two, a real advantage could be seen. Challenge is, you must maintain the 15 or 20 other variables in the mix. 

Then realise if you do things like this, there will be times where the circumstances could work againest you. A race hold over, a smash race where birds are out for days. If the race is on Saturday, and you didn't feed or provide grit, and now it is Monday and still no bird, those little details might make the difference if they even make it back home. That last crop full of feed or grit, might make a difference if the race goes badly.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

My observation is that pigeons don't eat grit everyday. They eat it if they need it. They do like oyster shells often though. I suppose whether you remove it or not makes no difference during race day.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*SALTin the grit =THIRST. Some remove it 1 or 2days before and others just the day of shipping*GEORGE


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Also if you feed pellets you don't need grit at all!


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Also if you feed pellets you don't need grit at all!


Forgive me for my ignorance, but that makes no sense at all to me. Seeds are much harder and denser than pellets so how are pellets supposed to take the place of grit? Seems to me that the pellets would be the first thing digested.

Wait a minute, the thought just hit me that you might be refering to feeding _*only*_ pellets. If that is the case then I guess it would make a little more sense but I still would offer grit. Their digestive systems just aren't set up for working without it.

Dan


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

My observation is that when I give my birds pellets, they consume twice more water than just using grains alone. Even though I give my birds pellets and grains combine, I still offer grit. They don't eat it much though.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Also if you feed pellets you don't need grit at all!


*Hi DEEJAY, Do  you race on pellets or maybe I should ask do you race?* GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You don't need grit with pellets because pellets are very easily broken down and digested, NOT because they take the place of grit.


Pigeons can survive with a very minimal amount of grit (as in, none provided by us, just the little rocks they pick from the ground themselves when allowed). BUT it's very stressful on the bird and can greatly reduce the quality of them. With grit, the feathers look better, the birds look happier and healthier, they grow more quickly (as far as babies and youngsters go), and they have better luck with reproducing. So that goes to tell you how important grit can be. If you're going to feed all pellets without grit, then you need to provide them with vitamin and mineral supplements every week. It's much easier in my opinion, to just give them grit no matter what you feed 

But for racing, removing it 24 hours prior to the race sounds good to me. I wouldn't take it away any earlier than that, or my birds would probably get very mad at me!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

george simon said:


> *Hi DEEJAY, Do you race on pellets or maybe I should ask do you race?* GEORGE


Yes I am going to race this year even though I'm on the long end, actually I'm the farthest south of all the flier's, the club members were really great in helping me get some young birds so I could race this September (Young bird season) so it should be a lot of fun to see who gave me any birds worth bragging about! As for the pellets? well why not? they have everything the birds need into a small mini-pellet, right now we have many feeds and I would like to narrow it down to a single feed(all purpose) instead of trying to over think feeding for various reasons like breeding, young birds, flier's, right now to be honest it's like "information overload" with everyone trying to help, but everyone has their own ideas on feeding, I recall many years ago an old pigeon flier telling me it's not what you feed the birds as long as you keep it consistent from week to week of course those were the days when culling birds was normal and sickness was not tolerated,and medicating birds was not even thought of, so I try to use things from the past and blend in things that work today. Well talking about the "past" we are still using "pigeon timers" the manual type of many years ago along with the electronic timers of today,it sure was hard to find a manual pigeon timer, but now I've got a couple of benzing timers coming from belgium via the ebay auction site! So it's off to the races this fall, my only fear is that My son and I will not have the birds we need to finish all 10 races, maybe not even the first five races lol


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## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

*a need for grit*

I think if you don't give it they will stop and get it outside your loft. I just had my lane graveled with limestone and it is a pigeon magnet as well as other birds. I don't see how they can utilize food without it. Although I know pellets have it, few are feeding pellets to racers who are training.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Those grit/rocks assist in digestion. The gizzard is a powerful muscle. I think pigeons can digest food without grit/rocks, but without it the food digested is not fully assimilated.


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

de Vera Loft,

Even when feeding strictly pellets, grit should be provided along with the pellets, either mixed in with the pelltets or provided in a seperate dish that you can monitor.. A pigeon on a strictly pellet diet will not eat much grit, but unless you are adding trace mineral supplements to their feed or water they may not be getting everything they need. Grit's cheap, and it won't hurt them, so why take a chance?

Ralph


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

de Vera Loft said:


> Are grits removed during the racing season?


Grit should be available to the birds 24/7. However, in saying that, there are certain medications that, when given, the grit is taken away from the birds. That's normally a 7 day course so for at least a week, they do without grit and do just fine.
I personally take the grit away from my birds the morning of shipping, because of the thirst factor. It doesn't hurt them to go without grit for 24 hours until they get back home.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

pigeon_racer said:


> de Vera Loft,
> 
> Even when feeding strictly pellets, grit should be provided along with the pellets, either mixed in with the pelltets or provided in a seperate dish that you can monitor.. A pigeon on a strictly pellet diet will not eat much grit, but unless you are adding trace mineral supplements to their feed or water they may not be getting everything they need. Grit's cheap, and it won't hurt them, so why take a chance?
> 
> Ralph





Actually, I have a friend who has been raising feral pigeons in a loft for almost 20 years now. He feeds the pigeons ONLY pellets and feeds them no grit and no minerals. He gives them garlic and ACV but thats it. Most pellets (or at least the kinds around here) have vitamins and minerals in them. I know MY pellets have several vitamins listed. 

Anyway my friend gives them no grit and no oyster shell. No calicum supplements. And he has birds that are 14 years old. And I think one that is 16. 

His hens are constantly on eggs. They never get a break. Eggs babies and more eggs. 


I would like to add that I dont condone this type of breeding behavior. But I was using it as an example. That pigeons can lead happy and healthy lives with no grit.


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

Missouri pigeon,

You are absoulutely right. We have people that live on nothing but beer and pizza, but you can't compare them with an everyday working athelete. Working pigeons, ie; racing pigeons, homing pigeons, high flyers, rolllers, will not thrive or compete as well on a diet lacking trace minerals supplied either through grit or supplements. Hence the title of this category. Most pellets don't provide all the vitamins or minerals that a working pigeon needs to compete. In fact most are mecidated to keep inferior stock healthy with antibiotics. This in turn helps to breed super diseases that anitbiotcs of 15 years ago will no longer work on. 

Ralph


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Also, if all you feed is pellets, grit isn't needed to digest the pellets, as it is needed to help digest seed diets. Your friend may not give calcium or minerals of any kind, and they may live, but they would live a lot happier and healthier if they were given the minerals and calcium. If these poor birds were able to be out in the wild, they would get these things on their own, and I think that nature probably knows more about their needs than your friend. He/she isn't really being fair to his/her birds.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

On the pellets label it can say grit is not necessary because pellet are easily digestible.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

RodSD said:


> On the pellets label it can say grit is not necessary because pellet are easily digestible.


That's what I just said Rod. But they would benefit from the other minerals and things that are in the grit. And certainly from the calcium.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

> Most pellets don't provide all the vitamins or minerals that a working pigeon needs to compete. In fact most are mecidated to keep inferior stock healthy with antibiotics. This in turn helps to breed super diseases that anitbiotcs of 15 years ago will no longer work on.



Actually Ralph, your thinking POULTRY pellets. Pigeon pellets contain no medication at all. My breeders get pellets. But not 365 days a year.



Also, to both Ralph and Jay3. MY pellets and most pellets I have found around these parts have a lot of vitamins and minerals. Why would you need to overload your birds with vitamins and minerals? If they are getting it in their pellets. I think THAT should be fine? Maybe I am wrong in my thinking but isnt too much ,of a good thing, bad?



My friends pigeons are not performance driven birds. But they are some of the healthiest birds I have ever seen. Their eyes are bright, feathers tight, droppings round and tight (which is amazing since they are on pellets) and he hasnt had a disease or infection in the past ten years. Ten years ago he had a POX outbreak.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Does your friend let his birds out to fly?


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

Technically yes, but not all at once. He lets most out but if they are on eggs he locks them up in their nest box while he opens the door. Thats for the breeders. His young birds and old birds that arent mated he just lets them all out but at separate days. He said sometimes he gets a couple ferals not from him that join his flock and come inside the loft. He bands all his birds. Its pretty amazing how many colros he has just by ferals.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. They have many beautiful colors now, as they have mixed with many escaped or lost pigeons. But if he lets them out, then I can assure you that they DO get grit.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

No they only fly around his loft. Maybe 20 minutes and come back in. Most of his breeders dont even do that. I remember watching 20+ birds fly out of the breeder pen, do three or four circles and wham back inside. 

But his birds are loft trained. They fly only around the loft, never out of sight. And they always come straight back to the trap.

So no, they dont get any grit and they dont free range.


No oyster shell either.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

> There are also some excellent pigeon pellets on the market. These pellets are made with grain as well as with fish or other animal meals. These additional ingredients provide necessary B vitamins to the birds.





> I can state that youngsters reared on at least a partial pellet diet seem to grow faster and feather better than those on a straight grain diet. This may be because of the protein differences.
> 
> If you are feeding your birds on mixed grain mixes, you must also provide pigeon grit for them. This grit is a mixture of oyster shell, minerals, salts, stones and charcoal which they used to process their food. Most manufacturers of pellets suggest that you do not feed grit with pellets since everything is included.


Taken From...
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/basicpigeoncare.html


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> The squabs grow really fast and are very healthy on this feed. Purina Nurablend Green is 18% protein for breeders; Gold is 16% protein for conditioning and maintenance. Purina suggests removing the grit from pens when using this feed because it already contains the minerals they need and *the extra minerals pigeons receive from the grit will cause them to develop diarrhea.* If not using this type of feed you will need to have pigeon red grit in the loft easily accessed by all the pigeons especially those in the breeding pen.


Taken From...
http://www.pigeonpage.org/pigeon_care.htm

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> Breeders Purina pellets all year long. No odor.
> ----------
> Ron
> Borderline lofts





> P.S. No grit ever with the pellets. Two years no health problems and fat healthy squabs.
> ----------
> Ron
> Borderline lofts


Taken From...
http://www.roller-pigeon.com/board/board_topic.cfm/859782/325246

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Ever think the reason why so many fanciers who feed pellets and complain about runny poop is because they are throwing off the nutrional balance that the pellets already supply. In other words. Too much ,of a good thing, is bad.


And sorry to the orginal poster for thread hijacking.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know that if you feed pellets, they don't need grit for digestion, but what about calcium? Do they also contain calcium?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Think About It*

*Well I have reading what many say about pellets and grit. First I would like to tell you all that I feed grain and add 1 part pellets to 12 parts grain I feed my birds two types of grit shell grit (oyster) and the other is granite grit.My birds are healthy. Granite grit is the teeth of the pigeon this in the gizzard is what brakes down the feed into a paste this then is passed into the stomach where digestion is carried out.By using pellets you are causing an effect that is not natural for thr bird because the needs to have those small stones to brake down any hard grains that it may pick up.Now the question that was asked in the start of this thread asked about removing the grit for race birds,and the answer is still remove it the day before shipping. I know of no one that races real well that feeds straight pellets, and when the birds get out to the LONG distances and are feed on the truck they are fed grain,if there are pellet fed birds on that truck they will either eat the grain and have a hard time digesting it as they fly home or they may not eat at all, so now you have a bird out 300 or MORE miles and no fuel, or in the other case where the bird ate he has fuel but the carborator ( gizzard) is not functioning at 100% THINK ABOUT IT* GEORGE


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

If you feed straight pellet. You dont need calcium. It has Vitamin D in it along with Calcium Carbonate. According to my feed bag.

Also,George. you are correct. If you are a racer and send your birds out where they will be fed. You need seed. But since I dont race. I dont worry about it.

I do know a few roller folk that feed straight pellet. But thats another story.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I still think they need the extra calcium. Our red grit has calcium in it too, but most feed oyster shell as well. A lack of it can cause egg binding and other problems. Birds may not get enough from just the grit. And your birds may not get enough from the pellets. There are many different opinions about this, and each has to do what they think is best.

That was an interesting comment George. Thank you.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

They are your birds. You pay for the feed. You can do what you like. I am not trying to convert anyone. Just trying to dispell some myths that I have read on this board.

My friend, like I said before, only feeds pellets, ACV and garlic. ACV and garlic are once a week. He has no egg problems. And he just told me that out of *100 eggs *he had *94 hatch *this year. 

You wont know what pellets can do until you try them. I think many fanciers have runny poop with pellets because they baby their birds way too much. Too much vitamins, medications etc etc. My friend has been feeding pellets since forever and his birds poop is normal. not runny at all.

Feed companies have spent thousands of dollars testing, and researching exactly what the birds need to keep them happy , healthy and reproducing.

It has been proven by big name feed companies that the body can NOT store vitamins. So for vitamins to actually do any good, they MUST be fed every day. With pellets they get this in their food everyday. The pellets have grain in them and the birds get a balanced meal in every bite. 


BUT, like George pointed out, if you race. You need to feed seed. (Read Georges post)

Thats all I got to say.


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

Missouri pigeon,

This is exactly the point that I was trying to get across. This thread was originated on a racing format, in a racing forum. What George said is exactly right, after all we are talking about althletic pigeons. If you specifically feed the purina pellets, you are right you would not need grit for there basic health. When you look at what the Europeans use for supplements when racing, the trace minerals and vitamins that they use with their grit is astounding. They believe in providing everything possible that there birds may even remotely need. This is based on their belief that science when it comes to racing pigeons still does not know exactly what reason there is for everything a pigeon eats, and even when they try to provide everything they can think of, new studies find some reason for another vitamin or mineral to be necessary in trace quanities. When you are a successful fancier racing against successful fanciers you leave nothing to chance. There are just as many fanciers that do not remove their grit during a race weekend as those that do. It comes down to attention to detail around the loft and finding out the results of every new thing you try. What works for me probably wouldn't work for you under the conditions that you fly your birds under. Read all the information you can find, experiment for yourself, and try to make an infromed decision. That's all any of us can do.

Ralph


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

Right on Ralph. 

If I truely raced at any real caliber. I would need to provide grit, seed and expierment a whole lot with what works best for my birds. Like everyone should.

But since the farthest most of my birds get is the local Wal Mart,

I was merely trying to point out that with pellets you dont need the extras.

BUT, if you race, my suggestion is to try different things.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, the original question was to remove or not remove grit during the racing season. Most people already know that with a straight pellet diet, they tell you not to use grit. Racers don't generally use just pellets. So I think the fact that your friend uses just pellets, and no grit, and his birds are perfectly healthy and happy, is pretty much a mute point. Nothing to do with the thread anyway.


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## Missouri_pigeon (Jun 7, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> is pretty much a mute point. Nothing to do with the thread anyway.


The whole reason why I jumped in was because of post 18 (i think) saying with pellets grit should still be provided. I merely stated my opinion and facts. That is all. I feel like I am beating a dead horse.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

okay, I can see why you came in. I stand corrected on that. I think people just have to do what they feel right with. Everyone just wants to do the best they can for their birds.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2009)

Missouri_pigeon said:


> The whole reason why I jumped in was because of post 18 (i think) saying with pellets grit should still be provided. I merely stated my opinion and facts. That is all. I feel like I am beating a dead horse.


dont worry some people here like to find an arguement where ever they can lol you got to just roll with it or be run over ... the truth is with a pellet diet you dont have to use grit but it doesnt hurt if it helps your birds feel better with their natural habits and as for racing and grit Im sure it wouldnt hurt to go for a day or two with out it


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I will make one more post on the subject of pellets while I add pellets to the grain that I feed, I feel that feeding pellets strait is not the way to go,so let explain.Lets look at the digestive tract of the pigeon.we all know that when the bird eats that the food enters the crop.What happens here,the food grain or pellets is soaked we all have seen our birds take a big drink right after they have eaten at this point the food is softened by this soaking and there may be some digestive juices that add in this softing. From the crop the food is passed into the stomach.The pigeons stomach consists of two parts the forward section is the glandular stomach or proventriculus the rear part of the stomach is the gizzard or the ventriculus. These two organs are highly specialized for digestive purposes.The glandular stomach has glands emptying secretions into it they are hydrochloric acid and pepsin both of which are great aids in braking up the food. From here the partially digested food is passed into the gizzard, here things get intresting, the gizzard is a powerfully strong muscle(KEEP THIS IN MIND) here is also are found the small stones that act as teeth. Now the intresting thing is that the gizzard has a valve that it can close and shut off the flow of food that has been digested need not enter the gizzard but now can flow from the glandular stomach directly into the duodenum thus by passing the gizzard. This brings me to the point the gizzard is a muscle and feeding pellets this muscle will not be used this in turn will weaken the muscle and when it is needed it will not function well .Therefor I feel that our birds must have grain and grit......... About a year ago I recieved some birds from a breeder back east the looked and felt good after a couple of days I noticed some thing strange these birds did not go for the grit and they were very picky about the grain they eat only the pellets that I add to my mix and some of the small grain it took about a month before they ate all the grain as well as the pellets.The point is that feeding straight pellets will weaken the diegestive system of our birds in the long run. I will leave it at that and you can do as you wish I will continue to feed grain with a small amount of pellets and my birds will get their grit and oyster shell. *GEORGE


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well said George, Ralph
I always use grit, my breeders get pellets and the race teem gets grain. The way i see things pellets are made from grain it may be ground real small but is still grain.
Dave


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