# Can a different pigeon feed this baby pigeon?



## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Can pigeons feed other pigeon's babies? 

I got a baby pigeon who needs someone to take good care of it and i'd like to know if other pigeons can feed this little chick. This pigeon's Grandma ( lol yup grandma  ) has come very close to this chick without attacking it. 

My brown pigeon (grandma) has prepared a nest for her and has already laid an egg. Can i place this chick next to the egg or will she attack this baby pigeon? This chick's parents don't do much anyway, They feed it once a day and there has been days were this pigeon was totally ignored and i want to move this chick for its own safety. Will the grandma help with this situation or should i take care of it? 

Thank you.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

How old is the baby? Putting under another parents with a chick or chicks the same age will work. If you put it in another nest will most likely result in it getting scalped and killed. If the parents are feeding it but not feeding it enough (are you sure??), than leaving it with them and supplementing its feeding (you feeding it too) may be the best bet. Else you may be better off hand-raising him/her.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Woodnative said:


> How old is the baby? Putting under another parents with a chick or chicks the same age will work. If you put it in another nest will most likely result in it getting scalped and killed. If the parents are feeding it but not feeding it enough (are you sure??), than leaving it with them and supplementing its feeding (you feeding it too) may be the best bet. Else you may be better off hand-raising him/her.


This pigeon is 9 days old and whenever i release my pigeons, His/her parents fly out as well leaving this pigeon all alone for 1-3 hours. 
This chick's grandparents have walked by before without attacking the chick. I've even seen them stand on the nest right next to the baby without attacking him/her. 

-Pige0nl0ver-


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> This pigeon is 9 days old and whenever i release my pigeons, His/her parents fly out as well leaving this pigeon all alone for 1-3 hours.
> This chick's grandparents have walked by before without attacking the chick. I've even seen them stand on the nest right next to the baby without attacking him/her.
> 
> -Pige0nl0ver-


It sounds like the grandparents just started a clutch of eggs. This means they won't have the crop milk yet to feed the baby. Fosters would have to have babies exactly the same age. (And be willing to take the baby without killing it.) 

If you think it's definitely not getting enough, maybe you can supplement it while it's in the nest. (give it extra feedings without taking it away from the parent.s)


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Libis said:


> It sounds like the grandparents just started a clutch of eggs. This means they won't have the crop milk yet to feed the baby. Fosters would have to have babies exactly the same age. (And be willing to take the baby without killing it.)
> 
> If you think it's definitely not getting enough, maybe you can supplement it while it's in the nest. (give it extra feedings without taking it away from the parent.s)


Okay well can it eat solid food at this moment? Food like budgie seed mix? 

Thank you.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> Okay well can it eat solid food at this moment? Food like budgie seed mix?
> 
> Thank you.


No. You said it's only 9 days old. it will need something like Kaytee Exact until 15 days.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)




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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

i got a dove pet book manual n read that, a ring neck doove fostered a pigy. the funy part is that the baby pigy looked huged compared to the foster dove hahahahahaha.

what i would do is, leave pigies for pigies, dovies for dovies, unless parents died, hand feed it n make a puppet. to avoid orphan babies, dont let fly the parents, hawks, cats, snakes, human hunters, etc wont care if they got kids, they will eat them


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> Never Let Parent Birds Out That Are On Hatching Eggs Or FEEDING Babies. These parent birds should tend to the baby if you leave them with him, if you leave his parents in the loft and not let them out check his crop a few times a day and see if there is food in it.


I let my birds out to loft fly when they have babies, It is good for them to get and stretch, They are out for an hour and then come back in for food, I never have issues with them not feeding their babies, Ofcourse one of the adults stays on the nest until the babies are about 14 days old and then I let them both out if they choose and aslong as its not cold.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

In NZ we do not have birds of prey that attack the same way as you do, well atleast not in the area I live in and I have not lost a feeder in years as they are experienced homers and always come back, I admit there is a slight risk of them not coming back but if in 5 years this has not et occured that is a risk I am willing to take, And its my choice to make not yours. If the parents don't come back the baby may die but until this date I have had no issues and if they do thats just part of nature isn't it.

" when you have livestock you have deadstock " I'ts unfortunate but just part of it

Its your opinion that I lack common sense but your opinion is an uneducated one as you hardly know me or have seen my birds and you obviously don't know much about NZ.

I think your concern for the animals wellbeing is admirable but maybe it fogs your grasp on reality a little bit, Animals die infact everything does, It is a part of nature and needs to be accepted. Avoided yes but accepted.

The point I am making is who are you to judge my level of common sense, I have made an informed choice to let my birds be free and until this day have not had any issues, Also you have not stopped to consider I may be experienced enough with hand rearing pigeons to take over if need be.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I give up.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I see you deleted the post I was responding too, You are right it was unhelpful. We will have to agree to disagree it seems.

I'll let those who didn't see the post know that spirit wings accused me of having no common sense, Hence my reply to her explaining my point of view.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You could keep the parents in and don't let them out until the young ones are older and weaned. I wouldn't take the chance of something happening to them before the babies are weaned. But they are probably feeding them more often than you realize. You can't be watching constantly all day long. They usually do a pretty good job with no interference.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I see you deleted the post I was responding too, You are right it was unhelpful. We will have to agree to disagree it seems.
> 
> I'll let those who didn't see the post know that spirit wings accused me of having no common sense, Hence my reply to her explaining my point of view.


I really do not care if you agree or disagree with me, it is not helpful to nit pick others advice and take the thread over with bullying with others who are giving Their advice as they see helpful. keep your post to the thread starter as that is who you are trying to post to anyway.. not me. It seems you are just looking for an argument, ... and I will delet or ignore seeing any of your posts so I will not have to explaine myself to someone who is taking the thread another direction and quotes my posts to try to prove something... as I stand with this issue is do not free fly your breeders it is common sense. and that is the last I have to say here.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I really do not care if you agree or disagree with me, it is not helpful to nit pick others advice and take the thread over with bullying with others who are giving Their advice as they see helpful. keep your post to the thread starter as that is who you are trying to post to anyway.. not me. It seems you are just looking for an argument, ... and I will delet or ignore seeing any of your posts so I will not have to explaine myself to someone who is taking the thread another direction and quotes my posts to try to prove something... as I stand with this issue is do not free fly your breeders it is common sense. and that is the last I have to say here.


You said, NEVER let your birds out when they are feeding, I had a different opinion so I made that clear to the thread maker so that they knew they still had the option of letting the birds out if they choose, You then started commenting on my level of common sense ( in a bullying tone ). Take your own advice and let me state my opinion without you bullying me, You have deleted your post you made with bullying comments so noone else can see, I wish I had qouted it when I had the chance


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank you all for sharing some information with me. The parents have finally decided to take proper care of this bird. He is doing very well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They usually do a good job.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ PIGEON, How can one comment on a text forum in a bullying tone ??
Obviously its the way you have chosen to interperate it, because you disagree with it.
As SW said, it is common sense NOT to let birds out if they are on eggs or feeding young. 
You may not have BOP near you, but there will be other predators, and just because YOU have been lucky, doesnt mean to say others will be too.
You also may be well able to hand rear young birds in such a situation, but others may not be and if it can be avoided it should be.
It is foolhardy to give advice that it is alright to do things your way, when in fact the general consensus and situations for most people is otherwise.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Quazar said:


> NZ PIGEON, How can one comment on a text forum in a bullying tone ??
> Obviously its the way you have chosen to interperate it, because you disagree with it.
> As SW said, it is common sense NOT to let birds out if they are on eggs or feeding young.
> You may not have BOP near you, but there will be other predators, and just because YOU have been lucky, doesnt mean to say others will be too.
> ...


She claimed I was bullying her which is not true, She said I have no common sense.

The thread maker can make an informed decision as to whether they let their birds out while feeding or not and I just outlined I do so also.

Spirit wings said, "Never let your birds out while feeding" this is her opinion and she is entitled to it, I never knocked that opinion I Just gave my personal view and outlined the way I do things, She then responded with something about my level of common sense, This is why I began a discussion with her on the subject.

Isn't everyone allowed to give advice and then the thread maker decide if they want to follow that advice or now.

And its not a matter of common sense, Its a matter of making an informed decision with the risks being calculated, My risks are incredibly low therefore I choose to let my birds out. If I loose a bird then so be it.

Anyway I will keep doing things my way and I will keep voicing my methods and opinions and if people want to listen thats fine, If they don't thats fine too but maybe people like spirit wings should avoid personal attacks about peoples level of common sense,

Her thread started with

"I am sorry you have no common sense" 

She has now deleted this ofcourse. I will not delete my posts as I stand by what I have said.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> .....And its not a matter of common sense, Its a matter of making an informed decision with the risks being calculated, My risks are incredibly low therefore I choose to let my birds out. If I loose a bird then so be it.....


It IS a matter of common sense, If their are risks, they should be taken into account.



NZ Pigeon said:


> I let my birds out to loft fly when they have babies, It is good for them to get and stretch, They are out for an hour and then come back in for food, I never have issues with them not feeding their babies, Ofcourse one of the adults stays on the nest until the babies are about 14 days old and then I let them both out if they choose and aslong as its not cold.


That comment shows a complete lack of common sense as it suggests that it is OK in every aspect to let the birds out.
It mentions no form of risk whatsoever in advice to the poster who if he took it for granted that it was ok, could lose a parent to a predator when it could so easily be avoided.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Can you people please stop arguing over this topic? I now know how to deal with this issue thanks to those who took their time to reply to my thread. So can you guys please take this somewhere else? I am being spammed by Pigeon talk. I don't even see any reason why you people should be arguing anyway. This issue has been dealt with thanks to the person that answered my last question.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope all goes well. Let us know how they do. Good luck!


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Hope all goes well. Let us know how they do. Good luck!


Thank you  I'll send you a message regarding this pigeons progress and we'll see how it goes.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

..........


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

The rest of us that have been following this thread would like to know how the youngster makes out also 
Also, it's my opinion that if someone is receiving 'sound advise' from a member, it's best to butt out and just observe. It makes no sense to have 50 different opinions to confuse the issue.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> The rest of us that have been following this thread would like to know how the youngster makes out also
> Also, it's my opinion that if someone is receiving 'sound advise' from a member, it's best to butt out and just observe. It makes no sense to have 50 different opinions to confuse the issue.


Thank you all for helping me with this issue. The Mum, Dad and Grandma are now feeding this bird. The mum feeds the baby 2 times a day, The dad feeds the baby 3 times a day and the Grandma feeds the baby 5 times a day. All is well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you actually sit there ALL day long and watch them?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> The rest of us that have been following this thread would like to know how the youngster makes out also
> Also, *it's my opinion that if someone is receiving 'sound advise' from a member, it's best to butt out and just observe. It makes no sense to have 50 different opinions to confuse the issue*.


This is a forum, Are forums not t compile and discuss different opinions and advice? and is it not the thread makers job to choose to take the advice they want. 

If someone wanted one persons advice they could use the private message system.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> This is a forum, Are forums not t compile and discuss different opinions and advice? and is it not the thread makers job to choose to take the advice they want.
> 
> If someone wanted one persons advice they could use the private message system.




NZ Pigeon, you give one opinion here, and a completely different opinion in this other thread was you attacked me for giving advice on what I use. It seems your opinion changes with each thread.

________________________________________________________ 
NZ Pigeon NZ Pigeon is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: New Zealand
Location: Christchurch
Age: 26
Posts: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by abluechipstock View Post
I use ivermectin 1%. 3 drops down the throat or on the skin will deworm and delice him. It can be neuro toxic. Some people put it in their bathwater, 3ml to 1 gallon but it's oil based so it doesn't dissolve completely through the water. If you're afraid he has lice you can get a big pan of water and put some 20 mule borax in the water and that will kill the lice. Keep reading all you can on this forum you'll learn. A lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
I have used the 0.5%, a few drops down the back of the throat, then again in 10 to 12 days.

*And here is what you said*
OK so we have two options here, I wonder if it would be better here to give consistent dosages so that the thread maker is not too confused. Jay3 is there anything wrong with the dosage from abluechipstock or is yours a better dose rate?* If sound advice is being given already its best too butt out and not to confuse matters with alternative dosages I believe
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If you have something to add to a thread, that is your right. But arguing with what others contribute is not. People have the right to add to a thread without your 2 cents.


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## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

Jay3 said:


> Do you actually sit there ALL day long and watch them?


Is this good or bad? haha 

Pigeons can be really addictive. My loft is a mere 10 feet away from my backyard and can be seen via a big sliding door from master bedroom(first floor). I can spit from my bedroom and hit the loft...lol

I had about 4 weeks vacation last Dec and whenever I'm at home from morning until I sleep(whenever that might be). I'm always watching them!

Not healthy!!! But what can I do, them critters are adorable. sorry OT


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

checkered said:


> Is this good or bad? haha
> 
> Pigeons can be really addictive. My loft is a mere 10 feet away from my backyard and can be seen via a big sliding door from master bedroom(first floor). I can spit from my bedroom and hit the loft...lol
> 
> ...



I know they are addictive, but do you not take time out for other things? LOL.


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## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

Not really lol.. I even think about them pigeons if I'm at bed thinking on what I can do next.

I still have other hobbies like fish, cars, finches and home renovations, but everything is in the back burner coz of the pidgies. Haha


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> NZ Pigeon, you give one opinion here, and a completely different opinion in this other thread was you attacked me for giving advice on what I use. It seems your opinion changes with each thread.
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> NZ Pigeon NZ Pigeon is offline
> ...


This was to proove my point that you also give further advice about how you do things once sound advice has already been given, This is what a forum is all about, And also aslong as I am not abusing the person or knocking their methods then I believe I have the right to qoute them and add my opinion, Once again This is a DISCUSSION FORUM.

Just one thing I will point out is that I did not attack you, If you consider what I did an attack on you then you also attacked my previously by telling me to butt out in not so many words.

If my opinion and methods do not match what the consensus believe I should still be able to give them, People can comment but I think Implyng I should Butt out is a bit far or further more comment on my level of common sense as per another thread recently.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> This was to proove my point that you also give further advice about how you do things once sound advice has already been given, This is what a forum is all about, And also aslong as I am not abusing the person or knocking their methods then I believe I have the right to qoute them and add my opinion, Once again This is a DISCUSSION FORUM.
> 
> *Just one thing I will point out is that I did not attack you, If you consider what I did an attack on you then you also attacked my previously by telling me to butt out in not so many words.*
> 
> If my opinion and methods do not match what the consensus believe I should still be able to give them, People can comment but I think Implyng I should Butt out is a bit far or further more comment on my level of common sense as per another thread recently.




You were the one who told me to butt out. I answered by telling you to follow your own advice. I had said nothing to you previously.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry Jay3, It was Msfreebird that told me to butt out, My mistake, I am sorry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No harm done. All's good. Thanks for re-checking.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Do you actually sit there ALL day long and watch them?


Jay3, what the hell is wrong with you? NO i don't sit there all day long watching them feed the baby...whenever i create a thread, you come in and post your stupid questions assuming that i'm doing something stupid. If you keep on coming on my thread posting stupid comments like this again then i will block you. I don't even know why you bother posting on threads anyway...your not helpful at all.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Sorry Jay3, It was Msfreebird that told me to butt out, My mistake, I am sorry


I did not tell YOU to butt out. I stated MY opinion as to what *I do*. Please re-read....."Also, it's my opinion that if someone is receiving 'sound advise' from a member, it's best to butt out and just observe. It makes no sense to have 50 different opinions to confuse the issue". Is your name 'it'?
And this thread is a perfect example of WHY!........Arguing over OPINIONS!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> Jay3, what the hell is wrong with you? NO i don't sit there all day long watching them feed the baby...whenever i create a thread, you come in and post your stupid questions assuming that i'm doing something stupid. If you keep on coming on my thread posting stupid comments like this again then i will block you. I don't even know why you bother posting on threads anyway...your not helpful at all.


Now I'm really confused  I thought Jay3 was helping you.....

Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
Hope all goes well. Let us know how they do. Good luck!

Your response- Thank you I'll send you a message regarding this pigeons progress and we'll see how it goes.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> I did not tell YOU to butt out. I stated MY opinion as to what *I do*. Please re-read....."Also, it's my opinion that if someone is receiving 'sound advise' from a member, it's best to butt out and just observe. It makes no sense to have 50 different opinions to confuse the issue". Is your name 'it'?
> And this thread is a perfect example of WHY!........Arguing over OPINIONS!


Once agan Its a forum to discuss opinions, Your impression of what a forum is is more suited to a questions and answers board


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> No harm done. All's good. Thanks for re-checking.


and I am sorry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> Jay3, what the hell is wrong with you? NO i don't sit there all day long watching them feed the baby...whenever i create a thread, you come in and post your stupid questions assuming that i'm doing something stupid. If you keep on coming on my thread posting stupid comments like this again then i will block you. I don't even know why you bother posting on threads anyway...your not helpful at all.


This is what you posted
Thank you all for helping me with this issue. The Mum, Dad and Grandma are now feeding this bird. The mum feeds the baby 2 times a day, The dad feeds the baby 3 times a day and the Grandma feeds the baby 5 times a day. All is well.
Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message
#27 Report Post 
Old Yesterday, 03:06 PM 
____________________________________________________________
To know all that, you would have to watch them all day. And the reasons for most questions are that it is pretty hard to help when you don't have all the info. You are just mad about the other thread where I asked about the measurements of a cage, and you wouldn't answer. So because of that everyone just figured that the cage was too small. That is when you got mad. You ask questions, but leave out most of the info, so don't get mad at me.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Now I'm really confused  I thought Jay3 was helping you.....
> 
> Posts: 82
> Quote:
> ...


He is helping me just a little, but his questions on my other threads are stupid.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> This is what you posted
> Thank you all for helping me with this issue. The Mum, Dad and Grandma are now feeding this bird. The mum feeds the baby 2 times a day, The dad feeds the baby 3 times a day and the Grandma feeds the baby 5 times a day. All is well.
> Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message
> #27 Report Post
> ...



What? i told you i did not have the correct measurements to give you, you just kept on spamming my thread with that question AND assuming the cage was too small. YOu first asked the question, then came back and assumed the cage was small, then asked the question, then assumed then asked then assumed...Seriously couldn't you wait for the answer? I even told you i was gonna get back to you with the information.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> What? i told you i did not have the correct measurements to give you, you just kept on spamming my thread with that question AND assuming the cage was too small. YOu first asked the question, then came back and assumed the cage was small, then asked the question, then assumed then asked then assumed...Seriously couldn't you wait for the answer? I even told you i was gonna get back to you with the information.



When I told you that you had not answered the question, what you said was
"I think I did?" I was not only me who figured that your birds were just too crowded. But that's okay, I won't bother with your threads anymore.Good luck with your birds.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> When I told you that you had not answered the question, what you said was
> "I think I did?" I was not only me who figured that your birds were just too crowded. But that's okay, I won't bother with your threads anymore.Good luck with your birds.


But that still doesn't give you the right to spam and ask multiple times. I was going to give you all the information. but thanks for the help.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> But that still doesn't give you the right to spam and ask multiple times. I was going to give you all the information. but thanks for the help.


asking multiple times is not spamming, if you gave the information when asked at first, people would not have to ask again.

good luck with your birds.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

pigeonlover, hows the chick now? you didnt move it did you? You can help feed it if it really needs you to.
Sometimes my pigeons fly and their babies are on their own for hours, its warm here and they are all good. often the parents feed the babys late at night 9-9.30pm just as its getting dark


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

thepigeonkey said:


> pigeonlover, hows the chick now? you didnt move it did you? You can help feed it if it really needs you to.
> Sometimes my pigeons fly and their babies are on their own for hours, its warm here and they are all good. often the parents feed the babys late at night 9-9.30pm just as its getting dark


Don't take this personally pigeonkey, I'm only using your post as a perfect example as to why there is conflict in some of the advise and opinions given to people. This is not directed at you 
Where one lives makes a huge difference. In the 'State's', if someone says they let the parents out to fly 'when sitting on young', the 1st response they are going to get is....Don't let them out to fly! We have ALOT of hawks, hungry hawks, especially right now during the winter months. I watched 6 hawks yesterday during my lunch break circling around the pond behind where I work..... 6 of them, hunting together. That's 2 'air miles' to my lofts. I can't free fly my birds at all, I have hawks year round that hang around the corn field next to my house, and will sit on my flight cage daily!
And it's dark here at 5pm. By the time I get home from work to feed at 6-7, it's pitch black and I have to turn the lights on so they can see their food.
I'm just trying to point out that people base their opinions on their location. Everyone needs to realize that and stop turning threads into debates.......because I'm really tired of having to defend everything I say


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Once agan Its a forum to discuss opinions, Your impression of what a forum is is more suited to a questions and answers board


And NO, This forum is not to 'discuss opinions', it is to give advise and help people with problems. As I stated many times before, 'location' makes a big difference as to what advise will be given in a situation. You have no idea what goes on in Maine during the winter months, any more than I know what goes on in New Zealand  It's not open for debate.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

its funny how hawks seem to be as prevalent as pigeons, especially as much as here how many are killed all the time by locals, and yet to most people pigeons are seen as overn populating. im not at all for advocating shooting/trapping hawks (those are the humane methods, as hearing in canada the hawks and pigeons are being nixed by people spreading poison on feathers on caught feral pigeons then releasing them to be eaten by hawks or poison preened off by other pigeons), but if they are a direct threat caught attacking livestock, and so abundant, shouldnt something be allowed to be done like shoot with bean bags, paint balls etc other non lethal methods? i know here when i called about them attacking my chickens and my birds chasing off and killing some they got on ground, the extension said just to toss them in woods or they could come pick up, but were allowed to kill or have removed oif direct conflict continually and complaints had been made already, as with wolves even (we have those too that occasionally take a neighbor's useless dog or cat in bitter winters). course im in east TN so no one in general really gives a crap about animals if they cant be made a buck off of, or are status symbol.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> And NO, This forum is not to 'discuss opinions', it is to give advise and help people with problems. As I stated many times before, 'location' makes a big difference as to what advise will be given in a situation. You have no idea what goes on in Maine during the winter months, any more than I know what goes on in New Zealand  It's not open for debate.


lol, A forum where opinions cannot be discussed? lol


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

ok ok, a bit off topic, but.. ive always been curious about new zealand, and wondering why they have no smaller native bird predating raptors, or just things that actually prey on them and keep numbers in check or at least make them wary? only the horned owl territories and large older red tails peregrines and eagles, up in Wi. seemed to make them cautious, were down here the ******** killed off all the large over all more beneficial raptors and that lets all the little pigeon preying on primarily, thrive and explode in numbers to were theyre seeming retarded and frantic for a weak easy to catch meal, were up north things unless winter avoid sickly birds (im in the south now..).


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird, I was listening to talkback just now and thought I would share the caller and the hosts point of view, As it was relative to your opinion

He said he wished more children would speak up in class and make their opinion clear, Firstly he said this will have a flow own effect - If one notices their peer has a point of view they may adopt one themselves making them more engaged and interested, Secondly he said any environment of healthy debate is a great learning environment as more info is bought to the table therefore more is learnt about.

For instance, If it was not for my original comment which apparently lacked common sense, the thread maker may not have been aware of the extent of danger from BOP, Nor would I have. So hasn't the debate around this made everyones awareness greater, which will benefit pigeons in the future? What harm has been done?

Laughingdog I am not totally sure, It may be to do with the limited number of Native BOP we have, I do think we have a native falcon maybe which will take birds down in the north island but are rarely seen down south where I am. Also we are very very careful about introduction of new bird species as we have some amazing native birds that need to be protected, No birds whatsoever are to be introduced to NZ, Unless done by DOC, but they just don't do it. DOC = department of conservation, My knowledge on thie subject is not great so this is just a theory.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

so did i miss scanning through the non pigeon really related stuff, if or not the baby was being fed before, at times that just werent seen, and did anyone else ask about looking for full crop at a lot of different times to check to see if it was full, and how many times does it need to be and how full or empty at times? the only baby pigeon ive had birds raise was the one and he is fine, but was kept so full he used to partially lay on his crop, as had four foster parents shoving food into him and eight babies of their own.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

laughingdog said:


> so did i miss scanning through the non pigeon really related stuff, if or not the baby was being fed before, at times that just werent seen, and did anyone else ask about looking for full crop at a lot of different times to check to see if it was full, and how many times does it need to be and how full or empty at times? the only baby pigeon ive had birds raise was the one and he is fine, but was kept so full he used to partially lay on his crop, as had four foster parents shoving food into him and eight babies of their own.


Last heard....Mom, Dad and Grandma were feeding it. Other than that, don't expect any answers.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

cool thanks, good to know, and neat that grammy is feeding too.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> Last heard....Mom, Dad and Grandma were feeding it. *Other than that, don't expect any answers.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I am sure the thread maker will update us over the next few days also.


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## billgarb (Aug 26, 2011)

Thank you very much for posting this video on hand feeding baby pigeons. I have raised pigeons for many years but have never been faced with this situation. The video was very informative. My young birds at 9 or 10 days usually have their crops bursting with grain. I am sure there are many pigeon fanciers who will appreciate this information. Once again. Thank you very much.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Msfreebird said:
> 
> 
> > Last heard....Mom, Dad and Grandma were feeding it. *Other than that, don't expect any answers.[/*QUOTE]
> ...


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

thepigeonkey said:


> pigeonlover, hows the chick now? you didnt move it did you? You can help feed it if it really needs you to.
> Sometimes my pigeons fly and their babies are on their own for hours, its warm here and they are all good. often the parents feed the babys late at night 9-9.30pm just as its getting dark


The pigeon is doing great and No i did not move it.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Quazar said:


> asking multiple times is not spamming, *if you gave the information when asked at first, people would not have to ask again.*good luck with your birds.


You sir are the dumbest person alive. How old are you exactly? Just because i did not give the information straight away does not mean you have the right to spam and ask multiple times. What if i was not at home or did not have my laptop with me? Are you still gonna refer to me as "Arrogant" because i did not respond straight away? I was not at home for 1 whole day, During that 1 whole day my thread was spammed by idiots like you and now you think im arrogant for not having a free time to answer the question? I even told that spammer that i was going to get back with measurements but he did not stop spamming and assuming. Your so ignorant, Don't bother coming on my thread again. Idiots like you make me sick.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok lets stop commenting on peoples IQ level and all get on. Some of you might think Im a little "rich" saying that but so be it.

Pigeonlover, Check this out, It teaches people how to multiqoute, I still forget sometimes but is handy if you remember

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f40/how-to-multi-quote-57611-2.html#post636815


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> You sir are the dumbest person alive. How old are you exactly? Just because i did not give the information straight away does not mean you have the right to spam and ask multiple times. What if i was not at home or did not have my laptop with me? Are you still gonna refer to me as "Arrogant" because i did not respond straight away? I was not at home for 1 whole day, During that 1 whole day my thread was spammed by idiots like you and now you think im arrogant for not having a free time to answer the question? I even told that spammer that i was going to get back with measurements but he did not stop spamming and assuming. Your so ignorant, Don't bother coming on my thread again. Idiots like you make me sick.


No one wants to assume anything, thats WHY questions are asked, but you still dont answer them. Sorry, but you have been online & replied several times since your first posts but have STILL not bothered to answer questions even though you said you would - Thats the IGNORANT part. 
The ARROGANT part is your attitude towards those that have been trying to help. 
As for spamming, there is already a reference to what spamming actualy means elsewhere on this board, go look for it & learn.


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## g_girl313 (May 31, 2011)

lol, only since this is at the top of the general discussion forum list already will I say this....

Please stop making this lovely banter the top of the forum list. I think it's been there long enough.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

Quazar said:


> *No one wants to assume anything, thats WHY questions are asked, but you still dont answer them*. Sorry, but you have been online & replied several times since your first posts but have STILL not bothered to answer questions even though you said you would - Thats the IGNORANT part.
> The ARROGANT part is your attitude towards those that have been trying to help.
> As for spamming, there is already a reference to what spamming actualy means elsewhere on this board, go look for it & learn.


Well Jay3 and Rpalmer DID ASSUME the cage was small and no i did not have time to reply to the thread, I had 1 whole day without my laptop. If you go back to the thread you'll see that i've only posted ONCE...then came back to see idiots assume the cage was small. If the Cage was really the problem then i would have never created that thread in the first place. Surely you understand that. How can i answer questions while im away? Go back to the thread and re-read everything that i've said. I came back and told those spammers that the problem has been dealt with but they did not stop asking and assuming. 

To make things short for you, This is what happened. 
1 - I created thread,
2 - Jay3 posts a comment regarding measurements/information about the cage.
3 - I tell him that the cage was big.
4 - He said "No you didn't, you said the cage was big etc etc"
( This is where that idiots started assuming the cage was small) Seriously, why would i sit here and waste my time if the cage was really small? The sentence "the cage is HUGE" was enough, And besides, i did not have the measurements to give at that moment.
5 - I go away for a day.
6 - I come back only to see that my thread spammed by Jay3 and Rpalmer assuming the cage was small.
7 - I tell them that the problem has been fixed and there is no need for measurements anymore.
8 - they kept on assuming was still small. 
9 - the argument starts.
10 - you join in when it clearly did not involve you. 

and speaking of spamming, you clearly got it wrong. They spammed their assumptions on that thread even after i told them that the problem was fixed. your both arrogant and ignorant, I have never ever attacked those who would take their time to help me out. You must be some 80+ year old man who needs his eyes and glasses checked because you either A - did not read the thread properly or B - some retard who entertains himself/herself by arguing over the internet. I'm done talking to you, your a waste of time and a reminder for the future; PLEASE do not come on any of my future threads again, people like you make me sick. I've never ever had problems with anyone before and everyone has been very helpful, including the awesome people that have posted on this thread. 

Stay safe.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> and speaking of spamming, you clearly got it wrong. They spammed their assumptions on that thread even after i told them that the problem was fixed. your both arrogant and ignorant, I have never ever attacked those who would take their time to help me out. You must be some 80+ year old man who needs his eyes and glasses checked because you either A - did not read the thread properly or B - some retard who entertains himself/herself by arguing over the internet. I'm done talking to you, your a waste of time and a reminder for the future; PLEASE do not come on any of my future threads again, people like you make me sick. I've never ever had problems with anyone before and everyone has been very helpful, including the awesome people that have posted on this thread.


That is enough!

1. Find out what 'spamming' actually is - try Wikipedia for one

2. Please read the rules of conduct, specifically



> We require civil and ethical conduct on all forums. Personal attacks on other members, or pigeons.biz itself or its moderators and administrators, will not be tolerated. If asked, you will yield to the requests of the forum moderators and administrators.


3. Edit your post(s) to remove personal attacks or they may be deleted

*All please note:*

Same goes for *anyone* on this thread who has indulged in name-calling, belittling other posters, hassling people, etc.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

John_D said:


> That is enough!
> 
> 1. Find out what 'spamming' actually is - try Wikipedia for one
> 
> ...




I know what spamming means...  I'm only using that word because those people kept on assuming the cage was small. -.-

And since your the Ad, shouldn't you be telling them to stop annoying me? I've placed them on ignore but its not working....


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Pige0nL0ver said:


> I know what spamming means...  I'm only using that word because those people kept on assuming the cage was small. -.-
> 
> And since your the Ad, shouldn't you be telling them to stop annoying me? I've placed them on ignore but its not working....


Well, let's just all leave references and arguments about cage sizes to the thread on that topic. 

The note to all should convey the message. If we had to tell someone to stop every time they said something which annoyed someone else, we'd be up to our necks in argument  One person may get annoyed about something, another may just shrug it off as nothing. 

Right now, it's about insulting personal comments.

It doesn't matter who starts these things, they just end up in a 'he said this', 'yeah, but she said that' battle that goes nowhere.


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## Pige0nL0ver (Mar 4, 2010)

John_D said:


> Well, let's just all leave references and arguments about cage sizes to the thread on that topic.
> 
> The note to all should convey the message. If we had to tell someone to stop every time they said something which annoyed someone else, we'd be up to our necks in argument  One person may get annoyed about something, another may just shrug it off as nothing.
> 
> ...


Your right all i wanted was a proper discussion with pigeon experts on my other thread but i guess it did not happen. I guess they wanted to argue and assume rather than help and wait for an answer.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

i do here we pigeon people can be as hen pecking as chicken people.. i guess we are! hopefully its all good natured and just been blown up in the end. group E-hug??? * *


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

laughingdog said:


> i do here we pigeon people can be as hen pecking as chicken people.. i guess we are! hopefully its all good natured and just been blown up in the end. group E-hug??? * *


Lol, Yes I think at the end of the day it shows people are passionate about the birds and what they believe in which is great, aslong as noone takes thing personally then I would hope its all in the name of education. Sorry G_girl, I just bought this back to the top....... hehe


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

here is something that just jumped to mind.. why dont you see more mentions of white dove/pigeon releases going south, so to speak, from hawk attacks? are the ceremonial release birds just randomly used/bred, or do they usually use racers, mixes of any white dove/pigeon, or just plain ol' white homers? just asking here, as this seems to be a homer based discussion.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

laughingdog said:


> here is something that just jumped to mind.. why dont you see more mentions of white dove/pigeon releases going south, so to speak, from hawk attacks? are the ceremonial release birds just randomly used/bred, or do they usually use racers, mixes of any white dove/pigeon, or just plain ol' white homers? just asking here, as this seems to be a homer based discussion.


They use white homing pigeons. If you want to know more I would open a new thread, more members will be able to see it.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

i know they use white homers, but the why you dont hear of the hawks with such huge flocks of them, racers, or flights, constantly decimating and ruining events.. curious if those breeds are just stronger, smarter, more agile alert, etc.. as theyre just performance breeds bred to actually fly competitively, and not just to look pretty in cage, coop, or loft (though not bagging on beautiful show breeds). I was going to start new thread, if any homer keepers on here didnt chime in saying it was already asked and discussed to death. thanks though.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

laughingdog said:


> i know they use white homers, but the why you dont hear of the hawks with such huge flocks of them, racers, or flights, constantly decimating and ruining events.. curious if those breeds are just stronger, smarter, more agile alert, etc.. as theyre just performance breeds bred to actually fly competitively, and not just to look pretty in cage, coop, or loft (though not bagging on beautiful show breeds). I was going to start new thread, if any homer keepers on here didnt chime in saying it was already asked and discussed to death. thanks though.


If the birds are getting released at an event. They are flying and chances are less of getting hit. Where at the loft flying daily they can attract hawks more. Fars as show birds They are far more then looking preety They have a standard to be shown by And must meet the points added up to win any show. Most white homers have not been bred well over the years. this in part is because many people do not train them well select them well. And many do not even bother to put bands on them. There are some good ones out there. And even in the lofts where they are more kept then selected I am sure if the people set them down trained and selected from the better birds They would improve there birds. Less would get lost.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

@re lee, thanks a lot. actually the standard can and does change so much for show birds, that there is really only the standard based on what the votes of few that do, or many who dont know of vote or just go along with, and the money put into make the standard change, otherwise we would have a lot more varieties as there would just be new types names added to old breeds. an animal should not be allowed to keep a working title if it doesnt in fact perform that task actively to the design of breed anymore. it just messes up us trying to get useful animals for something, then end up with brain dead useless but maybe adorable pets that are just to look at as can do hardly more than find food and water in tiny enclosures. trying to compare old and new standards and find animals so beautiful and at least somewhat durable also still is nearly impossible! when you do, your charged a fortune online for animals you have no idea if they are in fact what you were charged for (and im hearing that half and half even on this site of breeders). how is someone supposed to get into this hobby if they cannot get personally with enthusiasts to learn what is what (though hear of many great people on here who do help teaching the ropes to many over their vast years of experience)?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> They use white homing pigeons. If you want to know more I would open a new thread, more members will be able to see it.


Good idea I say, I think some members may be avoiding this thread so they may not see your questionl.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

laughingdog said:


> @re lee, thanks a lot. actually the standard can and does change so much for show birds, that there is really only the standard based on what the votes of few that do, or many who dont know of vote or just go along with, and the money put into make the standard change, otherwise we would have a lot more varieties as there would just be new types names added to old breeds. an animal should not be allowed to keep a working title if it doesnt in fact perform that task actively to the design of breed anymore. it just messes up us trying to get useful animals for something, then end up with brain dead useless but maybe adorable pets that are just to look at as can do hardly more than find food and water in tiny enclosures. trying to compare old and new standards and find animals so beautiful and at least somewhat durable also still is nearly impossible! when you do, your charged a fortune online for animals you have no idea if they are in fact what you were charged for (and im hearing that half and half even on this site of breeders). how is someone supposed to get into this hobby if they cannot get personally with enthusiasts to learn what is what (though hear of many great people on here who do help teaching the ropes to many over their vast years of experience)?


The breed show standard does not change very often and when it does it changes just a little. And the standard is just a guide to breed by. And select by. No bird is ever perfect. And to great birds paired together does not mean they raise great birds. Birds have to be offset to increase the chance of raising good birds. This subject does go away from this thread Show birds are better priced then some race birds Fare priced. Where many race birds are way over priced. And It boils down to what a person will pay. But any new person in the hobby can find a person willing to help get one started at a fare price And even give birds. What breeds do you like.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

well i think i have some mixes and/or show birds of types mentioned in my sig, and a lot of work ive seen go into a lot of performing/racing birds, so get value and pricing from some, as some actual effort goes into training and conditioning the animals to do something, as well as the space and nutrition to do so. maybe im just still too new in the hobby, at least as far as learning is concerned? like fantails, when i was a child remember what they looked like and the white americans awwwd me in WI. state far shows, but with other breeds remember and looked up, even though they look the closest to standard then, they now are bred not just mini, which is good idea, but seeming what some referring to as wry neck, whenever see what others call shaking or shakers, and they keep falling over and just act sick and injured. id considered buying some at places seen, just to try out, but kinda ruined the memories of them looking so proud as child. im not sure how most of these even breed, as well as supposedly standard better, but its gotten a lot more lax maybe cause of balance issues, but the tails are a lot less than used to be also. the old standard looked like proud turkeys said, but new ones look like they started to wringing its neck and didnt finish the job. im more into the performing breeds, and looking into something i can watch perform.. i wonder why the parlor tumblers went mostly out of style and everyone just uses as droppers and crosses them into parlor rollers and birms. or for that matter why they wouldnt just breed them further in original direction to jump or even fly up some feet and roll/tumble down and land on feet. ive been told that parlors would be wasted on me, as id be just interested in starting out with a pair or two of culls, as wouldnt mind or kill for not rolling straight, in circles, or not go for football field lengths, and the culls are better sold or destroyed, so gave up on that, and cant find parlor tumbler people, who dont just consider them lesser parlor rollers, when a few have clarified they are own breed of three classes that jump up and flip tumbling down from three to one time/s trying to land on feet and in same spot, as rollers just spin hopefully in straight line on ground using wings head and tail. the only real show birds i have any purely esthetic affection to, are the fantasy, as think neat how all the traits almost are combined into the one bird, thought by many to just be mix (whether you need to mix, or stable bird that breeds true, i dont know). though the personality of such a bird i dont know, as it took bit it seems for my jacobins, and Capuchin hen, to start to act more than just comatose (theyre even learning to fly some, and that they can stretch their legs and wings since i got), stuffed animals you have to feed water and clean up after, and the two or three are now demanding to be let out to roam around with the rest in evening before feeding. other fancy or show pigeons i really dont remember much detail about from when kid, or have been able to learn about now, though here the mookies are great pet birds though no elaborations have been made on personality other than they are cuddly. 

performers im starting to learn a lot about, and still probably know not even half.. lol homers and racers i know of oddly enough even from falconry and dog training, as kid, as well as other venues those two led me too. 

mostly id say from what know, im more into finding out about parlor tumblers, flying flights (not much specifics out there and just keep getting taken to same site, of three, and no specifics on the inside of breeding and flying, just videos of the shows in cages coops lofts, or the flying type out on roofs or flying, or in tiny coops they seem really happy in were homers would seem to tear selves and each other apart). oriental rollers, though a lot of good info over seas on them as actual flying breed solely. then just white homers, as just to fly maybe. 

i maybe seen some tumblers or rollers that do look good having show characteristics, but fly well and perform supposedly.

then again most to all of bird i got seem to be show stock that could not fly at all when got, and some still hardly to fly unless my lead bird or i push them to fly at least some. course of ones that are learning to open wings more than halfway at all, and actually stretch and flap, some of them got because had busted eye on one side, wing, or more often than not legs, and feet/toes. so originally was just projects to work on, as gave up on rollers after to many let downs, so now im planning to look just for parlor tumblers, as said by parlor roller enthusiasts even their culls would be wasted with me, as the birds are to compete with in straight lines, for foot ball fields. me being disabled just to point im not allowed to drive, cant get out to show or compete. so was advised that parlor tumblers maybe more of a just for fun kinda bird to work with and watch at home (which actually is seeming more and more dead on, but hardly see any parlor tumblers in action, just links to rollers). im hoping to get my "homers", show or mixes, to rear some young, or even the blond/yellow hen lay some eggs with the cock, as did in aviary on food bowl then again on floor next to cause i kept kicking her out of it (least im assuming she was laying them), with a "roller" cock. also my flights show or mix maybe, are also having a cock and hope hen pairing off to try to nest (though he seems to have been her choice and nice form and eyes, seems he isnt quite right, and to bad the one other who would be perfect if not for showy fluffy feathers, and another not having white eyes and not sure if hen or not).


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Well it sounds like you want birds you can let fly. far as fantails What you remember And looking at your age which say 30 the fans have changed just a little. they are going back to the smaller bird WHICH the standard did call for. And they do have good balance. They do not fall over. I would say you are starting to learn a little about pigeons. But need much more learning. And you say you are not able to drive So getting birds you can enjoy at home sounds good. remember some breeds just do not fly well enough to stay safe from hawks. enjoy your birds and keep trying to learn.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

well when got up today, noticed an egg guarded under my "homer" hen, so hoping more will come where that did. i was wondering if she was finally getting ready to lay, from how she didnt seem eager to fly around much when let out. my birds are not to big on oyster shell except occasionally, so i made a mix of laying pellets, cracked corn, and wheat, from the local feed farm and garden store (ramseys farm market if anyone lives close and needs good quality and friendly service), and this egg is like a pearl, were others were not so shiny white. hoping the rest i thnk are hens follow suit soon, and thayre fertile. females are only fertile for about a week after mating? or how long?


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

yeah, maybe ill look for parlor tumblers, or even parlor rollers again, as all i seem to be fining in performing breeds otherwise are their now knowing to be show counter parts.


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