# Found a fledgling - now what?



## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

I have what seems to be a grey pigeon fledgling sitting in my driveway. 
It is about the size of my hand, appears to be very well-feathered apart from the back of its head and neck. Tail feathers are about one inch long. The bird is unafraid and is just sitting there. 
I'm not sure if I should just leave it out there? 
I don't see any parents around and the bird is not making any sounds. It seems alert enough and not "droopy".


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*parent feeding it, but its exposed*

Took a walk around the house because the fledgling had disappeared. Came upon it sitting by the backdoor, the parent flew up and into a nearby tree. 

Do I need to do anything ... the baby is sitting on the ground with no cover around it and I'm worried a magpie or rodent might get it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you take a picture and post it? Do keep him safe but let's try to figure out what it is that you've got.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can go to this webpage and confirm that it's a pigeon and, if so, how old it is:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*safety first?*

We have feral cats and dogs, as well as magpies and rodents in the area. 
So I need to know how to keep it safe. 
Can I move the bird into a box and put it on my garden table, get it off the ground somehow, would the parents still come and feed it? 
I need to leave the house for a couple of hours soon, and I dont want to come back to find a flurry of feathers is all that is left of it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if you can put it in a box or even under a laundry basket for safekeeping, that would be real good. Have you looked at the pictures in the link to make sure that it's a pigeon?

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

You could take it inside, then allow it to have outings during which its parents can feed it during "safe" periods. Last week I was alerted by a friend who had seen two baby pigeons with short tails on the ground. By the time I got into town to pick them up one had been killed by traffic...they are really very vulnerable on the ground.

Unlike some birds pigeons do not live on the ground for a while after leaving the nest, although once they are fledged their parents will continue to feed them for a few days. When they fledge they leave the nest for short exploratory flights, usually guided by the father bird. 

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Who knows, you might even be located near a Pigeon-Talk member that can help. Where, basically, are you?

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*Pictures*

Oh wow, the parents will hang around and do that? I am amazed!

Found out that Speedy had found his way into a flower bed and is definitely more alert and energetic. Had to chase him a bit to get the photos. I hope I've managed to attach them correctly. As you can see, he looks very pigeon-like (at least to me, and a parent I mentioned earlier was definitely a pigeon), and is well-feathered, but he has that odd featherless patch on the back of his head and neck. 

He is definitely at risk since he is not flying yet, so I'm trying to figure out what to do.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Pigeon nestlings usually don't leave the nest until they can fly. With as short of a tail as you're describing, he won't be flying for quite awhile, far too long given the local predators.

I don't see a picture.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> he has that odd featherless patch on the back of his head and neck.


That is usually the result of bullying. 

Cynthia


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*probs uploading pics*

My browser keeps shutting down every time I close the "manage attachments" popup! 
Can't figure out whether to stick to trying to get the pictures on the website or go out and catch the bird...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Go catch the bird first, then this stuff.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Always secure your pigeon first.

I am curious about where you are...Caymania and feral dogs suggests the Cayman Islands to me.

Cynthia


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*Bird in hand*

Got the bird in a box. Phew. Speedy is the right name for it!

Had to look around for it, it had wandered around to the backdoor again, and was somehow up on the 6 inch high step this time. 
Had to chase it around a bit, it's a pretty fast runner! It fluttered its wings as it tried to get away but stayed firmly put on terra firma... Wings seem pretty well-feathered. No "fuzz" anywhere on it. 

I definitely cannot get the pictures on the website. The little popup seems to cause my browser to freeze and then close. Done this about 10 times. Can I send the pictures to one of you who can do this please? 
send me yr email addr, mine is s_marcussen2003 at yahoo com
Thanks!

Somebody asked where I am, I'm in the Cayman islands.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Send them to:

[email protected]

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I keep checking the emailbox but nothing so far. Have you sent them?

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

*Just sent them*

Sorry, it took me a lot of checking before I realised the thread had two pages! I'm a bit distracted by the whole pigeon business, I guess. Had to cancel my appointment .. just sent the pictures to you.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Pictures of Speedy:

http://community.webshots.com/album/562543191ifYsnh

Speedy's related to pigeons, but he's not the regular pigeon that we all know and love. As such, we're going to be looking for a specialist, here. He might be a lot like woodies (Wood Pigeon) but I'm certainly no expert.

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

cyro51 said:


> You could take it inside, then allow it to have outings during which its parents can feed it during "safe" periods.
> Unlike some birds pigeons do not live on the ground for a while after leaving the nest, although once they are fledged their parents will continue to feed them for a few days.
> Cynthia


Now that I have the bird in a box, and I've caught my breath after all that chasing, I'm wondering what's next! 
Will the parent birds hang around and how do they know when the baby is outside (it isn't vocalising)?
How often do I take the baby outside?
Do I put it outside in the box or let it out and then try to catch it again? Will the parents feed it with me hanging about? 
etc. etc.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's especially tough to answer those questions about a truly wild species without being familiar with them. This nestling is to the point of eating only a couple of times per day, though, so it's not as big a worry as if he needed to eat every two hours or die. We've got time to sort it out, though.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, is this guy really little? Can you measure him or weigh him? The missing feathers don't help with identification but he almost looks like he could be related to the white-winged doves.

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Sure, I can do that. 

Speedy is in a box on my porch. I walked outside to see how he is doing and see if I could find a pigeon to photograph for identification. There is one in the tree right outside, just sitting there quietly but kind of alert. Parent maybe? Not cooing, just staying put. So I put Speedy out there under the tree, box and all, and he looks kind of hopeful but I'm not sure there is any interaction going on. 
Should I take Speedy out of the box and risk him running off? The box is about 8-10" high, not very big, I guess I'm wondering if the parent will perch on the side and feed him?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I sent an email to JoyfulSongTree, who is a member of an international dove society, to see about identifying Speedy's species. Hopefully, somebody'll come up with an answer pretty quickly (if not already).

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, they gotta' watch for awhile to figure out whether the box is going to eat them. It just takes awhile for them to get used to the arrangement. It usually works, though.

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Pidgey, I've just sent you a couple more pics of Speedy and one of a possible parent. The parent type is very common here. 
Hope this helps!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, those pictures are added:

http://community.webshots.com/album/562543191ifYsnh

That's gotta' be the parent and it really does look like some kind of white-winged dove.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Look at this one:

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i3190id.html

And here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-winged_Dove

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

It certainly does look very like the one sitting out in my tree!

I'm not sure about the ring around the eye, nor the iridescence on back of the neck, but the rest of the features seem to be a fit. The tail seems to have a white patch on the underside.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The iridescence is more of an effect than a true color. The light needs to be right to see it. Some individuals have it more than others, too. 

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Oh good, we seem to have found out what type of pigeon Speedy is. 

Went out to check the situation. The parent has left and Speedy was sitting on the edge of the open box mulling over life. He has pooped about 4 times since I put him in it (about an hour - hour and a half ago). Does that mean he has been fed very recently? 

Brought him in to weigh him (about 75g). 
He then flew off the scales and over to the screened window (about 2m or 6-7 ft) and had a bout of very wing-flapping as he tried to figure out how to get out. 
I've put him back in the box (with lid on) as I try to figure out a better enclosure! 

His flying seems to be improving very rapidly indeed. A couple of hours ago he could only flap but not lift off, now he actually flew several feet. Is he ready to leave home? Not quite yet? What do you think?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Doves learn to fly at a much earlier age than pigeons do. That's about the right weight and he will be flying very soon. That said, it won't be long at all before he'll be ready to keep up with his parents.

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

So now I have a fledgling dove in a box with some water. 

What else do I need to do?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you might go looking for where the parents actually seem to live. If you can find the nest, it might be possible to put him back in it or near it, even if it's up in the tree that they're living in. Otherwise, you're going to need to get him out there up high enough for them to continue to take care of him at intervals until he's ready to take off. This is a difficult time for them because dove nestlings do it this way--they end up out of the nest with the parents maintaining a vigil while they learn to survive the hard way.

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

The parent(s) seem to be hanging around, one is walking around the box but I have not seen it hop onto the box or anything like that. So he must be getting hungrier and hungrier, and mom must be getting more and more fed up!

Do you think I should put Speedy up on a branch and see if he can hang on, or something like that, so the parents can get to him? I dont want to leave him out at ground level, and if I hang about then the parents stay away. 

(will also try and keep an eye out for their nest, good suggestion).


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sorry, lunchtime.

Yes, you can do that--it's how their lives go at this stage. You can try to watch from behind cover.

Pidgey


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi Folks, 
Thank you, Caymania, for caring for this little fledgling. I just got your email, Pidgey, sorry for the delay, I'm on Hawaiian time and slept in today... 
I believe you have correctly ID'd this as a White-winged Dove.
The odd plumage growth ( or lack of it ) looks to be from pecking by a nest mate or mineral deficient parent, possible feather depluming mites rather than predation, anyway... those are my best guesses. Or a longer shot -- perhaps this species' just grow in that way.


Pidgey said:


> ... Otherwise, you're going to need to get him out there up high enough for them to continue to take care of him at intervals until he's ready to take off. This is a difficult time for them because dove nestlings do it this way--they end up out of the nest with the parents maintaining a vigil while they learn to survive the hard way.


Pidgey you've said it in a nutshell, this _is_ generally the most vulnerable few days of a dove's life. The parents ( usually mostly the father at this point ) would likely be feeding with only the occasional supplemental crop milk/seed mix now, while weaning and teaching the baby how and where to find food ( mostly seeds ) and to drink water on its' own. 

In order to allow the parent to teach the baby they must be allowed to roam some and therein lies the dilemma of possible predation. My thoughts have been that the best we can usually do in this situation is to give them our time by watching from a distance, possibly put out some wild bird seed (or millet) and water in a safe place (with dense foliage nearby) and try to stay out of view of the parent until the fledgling is fully flighted. At dusk, if the baby is still on the ground, I would put the baby up out of reach of predators, like on a low (3 feet or so with soft ground under it) branch of dense foliage if one is available. If not, or if the nature of potential predators would make this unsafe, perhaps the box for the next night or two would be best.

Best wishes, and I'll say prayers for little Speedy,

Carol...Member ADA and CDA


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi again, 
Just thought this may interest you...
There's a button link to a recording of the vocatization of the White-Winged Dove, Zenaida asiatica, toward the bottom of the page linked below, it was recorded on the US mainland though so it could sound a little different than those of the Caymen Isles.
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/SeedSpecies/White-wingedDove.htm

Video #2 linked below also has the vocalization ( recorded in Belize ) in it at the beginning. Other videos on that page show some of the variations in plumage that can occur within the species.
http://ibc.hbw.com/ibc/phtml/especie.phtml?idEspecie=1834

Best wishes, 

Carol... Member ADA and CDA


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's always a pleasure, Carol, thanks for the info and links. Do they domesticate white-winged doves?

Pidgey


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi Pidgey  

I personally know of only one White-winged Dove kept indoors in a cage ( rather than those kept in aviaries or flights outdoors) and it has retained somewhat of a rather wild nature. 

But I imagine there may be dove keepers other than I am aware of who keep White-winged Doves in a domestic environment and who've possibly been successful at taming them, _especially if the dove was co-parented or hand raised from hatching or thereabouts_. What a joy these Columbidae youngsters can grow up to be, as you are surely aware! Like right now I have a tamed wild Zebra Dove (Geopelia striata) sitting on my shoulder who was brought to visit me for the day. Here're a few pics of the dearling himself from last year when he came for a visit:
http://www.flatratewebsites.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=215

Best wishes,

Carol... Member ADA and CDA


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Thank you very much, Carol and Pidgey, for the information and help! I've certainly learned much more than I had bargained on, since I woke up this morning - I mean that in a good way! I find I am being much much more observant of the sounds and things going on around me... and I am TOTALLY amazed that pigeons make such amazing parents, hanging around for so long when they cannot see or hear their baby. Wow. 

An update on Speedy: things are going really well. 
I took him out in the box at lunch time. Parent dove would fly up, coo, gradually walk closer to the box, walk away leaving distressed baby, and then come back head down all ruffled up and sort of puffed up, looking like a "pigeon sumo wrestler". That was odd - they'd walk from left to right as normal, and then come back at some point in sumo mode. 
Parent would walk by the box several times... then fly away, leaving dejected baby who would then settle down and preen. 
Meanwhile I sat behind the porch window, reading and watching. 

Finally parent dove jumps up on the edge of the box and looks in at the baby. After a while it jumps off, walks about, flies away.. at some point both parent and baby are on the edge. Parent pecks the baby a bit, probably to get it to jump down onto the grass. Baby digs its heels in, parent flies away.

After a while baby sitting on the edge gets hot - the sun has shifted - and flies over to the frontdoor step. (This bird has a thing about doorsteps). Sits in the shade, I can see its throat vibrating but I can't seem to hear sound. Thirsty?

Parent bird returns soon after, feeds the baby who is much happier after that. Baby sits on the step and falls asleep.. parent comes by very often and tries to make the baby walk around. Baby stays put but stretches wings often and preens a lot. 

Later the baby wanders with parent into bushes, parent flies up and sits in branches but baby unable to fly upwards, it can apparently fly horizontally but not vertically yet? 
There is a small tree with a sloping trunk and the baby later crawls/flies about a foot up and sits there with parent. Parent flies away, baby stays put. 

Baby flies down and walks around the bushes with parent, who keeps flying up into teh branches but baby stays put. 

Its now 18.45 and baby has finally - just as I began planning to go out and grab him off the ground - finally flown up onto a branch about 3 ft off the ground. He's sitting there alone. I'm thinking that I'll leave him there until tomorrow morning and then continue my vigil?

I liked Carol's idea about strewing birdseed about - I would have liked to do that, although the parent did not seem to pick at anything while I watched, just walked around. I didn't want to intrude once the interaction began .. I think I'll do that early tomorrow and see if baby begins learning to pick. 
I had thought about putting him on a branch during the afternoon, but he is fast and I didn't want him to burn too much energy evading me! It was fun to see how his flying progressed during the day. 

I had no idea doves made such faithful parents ... and possibly other people who find a fledgling dove may not know this, so am detailing my experiences a bit for their sake. I was lucky to find a fully-grown fledgling, though. (I think I was afraid I'd have to feed it every 2 hours on mashed up worms and have fleas all over the place..). 
The parents really did take care of the baby beautifully even though I manhandled him so much and took him in! All I ended up doing was to keep an eye on him and move him away from dangerous areas. I'm blown away by how much fun I had and how much I learned. 

All in all, this little dove survived today thanks to all you kindhearted people who shared your wisdom - thank you!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I think we've all had about as much fun as YOU just reading all the "goings on"......I was "lurking" but would have been of no help, so I just "watched"....you did good. Thanks for helping this little one.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the "goings on" of the baby/parent. It is amazing how well they can communicate with each other. I expect papa told his baby to get his little rear on a low limb for the night! 

Thanks for being such a good caretaker for this dove family.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Me, I'd still be scared for the baby overnight and probably keep him in a box, inside where it's safe. I imagine that only a small percentage survive this phase for one reason or another. Otherwise, your island would be swarming with them. Best of luck, hopefully you'll get to enjoy even more tomorrow. At the speed he's going, I expect he'll be able to fly upwards better tomorrow or the next day. That's how fast it goes.

And thanks for caring!

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Just spreading the joy, y'all!  

I'm actually beginning to think about keeping doves at some point. I love the coo-roo-roo sound they make, the best sound I know to relax to. Forget about new age and mountain streams, give me a cooing dove anyday! 

BTW, we have another type of pigeon here on the island. It's local name is (I believe) the Cayman dove, its about half the size of this one, very small and shortlegged, kind of elegantly compact, brown in colour, they walk around like little wind-up toys. It could be the Common Ground Dove, not sure, I have to look at them more closely.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've seen something like that on Cozumel. They're a dove that's about the size of a Robin!

Pidgey


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi Caymania

That is great that you've been so observant and able to give such a wonderfully detailed report. It's especially a relief to know that the parent has fed Speedy :~)

If you scatter seeds, try to make them visible only from where Speedy and parent have been hanging out. At this point you don't want to attract any more birds from the sky, a crowd of which would in turn attract predators...

Providing a shallow ( one half inch deep ) source of water (again, not visible from the sky) for them to have access to first thing in the morning would make it easier for the parent to teach Speedy how to drink, too. Doves and pigeons suck up water like though a straw, by the way (unlike most other birds) but they do need to be taught and babies have been known to die of thirst during the weaning process. 

If you keep Speedy overnight in a box ( it would be easy to catch him once it's dark -- they are extremely reluctant to fly at night ) you could let a few drops of water drip down Speedy's bill (below the nostrils) from a dropper or straw just to ensure that he's hydrated. He wouldn't need much as there was likely some water content in what the parent fed him. But there will be less crop milk ( moisture) and more seed in the mix now with every feeding so it's hard to tell sometimes... Humans can teach them to drink if necessary by holding their bill in a shallow dish of water for a second or two, again being careful that no water gets into the nostrils.

Best wishes and please keep us posted!

Carol...Member ADA and CDA


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Good morning all!
Speedy has left home and I'm feeling bereft!

I took Pidgey's advice and brought "that d*** bird" in (husband had to go out and get him in, juggling flashlight and baby bird). Gave him some water as Carol suggested, he drank quite a bit and boy was it easy! (I used to have a cockatiel years ago, and hated the way it could turn its head 360 degrees and take a chunk out of my thumb every single time I had to handle him). 
Put him in a dark bathroom and he was out. 

This morning I scattered some birdseed and put out a bowl of water. Then I put him outside in the box as he seemed sleepy. He woke up pretty quickly when he heard all the other birds singing, jumped up on the edge of the box and resumed his alert pose and preening/stretching exercises to limber himself up. No sign of parents. 

Soon after that he wandered onto a perch, watching and listening and limbering up. And then I left my vigil for a few minutes and when I returned he was gone. 
No signs of any scuffle, no parent bird hanging about, I've looked around very carefully several times since then, so I'm hoping that he and a parent are out practising how to do fly-by craps on tourists. 

Am in the throes of empty-nest syndrome


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He probably flew up in a tree where you can't see him or he flew away with his parents. I know it's so sad when they leave "home" but I am sure he will return to say "hi".

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you'll probably be okay. You never know, you might see him again someday when he's got a little one of his own to raise. Maybe even sooner, so keep an eye out. Ya' done good!

Pidgey


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## Caymania (Feb 19, 2008)

Still no sign of Speedy, so I'm hoping he is fine. He'll probably come by one morning and crap into my coffee  

Well, guys, thanks for all your fantastic help and support! I've learned a lot about pigeons, and hope to be back as a pigeon-keeper sometime in the near future. And I most definitely will recommend this website if I hear of anyone who has rescued a baby or just needs some pigeon info. 

Thanks again!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I hope he will pop by just to let you know he is OK. You gave him the best chance possible by protecting him from predators while allowing him to benefit from his parents' feeding and guidance.



> BTW, we have another type of pigeon here on the island. It's local name is (I believe) the Cayman dove, its about half the size of this one, very small and shortlegged, kind of elegantly compact, brown in colour, they walk around like little wind-up toys. It could be the Common Ground Dove, not sure, I have to look at them more closely.


If you haven't found it already, this is a link to the pigeons and doves of the Cayman Islands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_of_the_Cayman_Islands#Pigeons_and_Doves

Cynthia


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

Morning Folks ( I know tis afternoon for most of you...:~)

Caymania, good on you ! It is easy to miss them though isn't it, they wiggle into our hearts so quickly... That is very encouraging that he can drink on his own now and you are right -- young or weak doves are not as able to fly vertically, so it was a good sign that he was able to do this by the end of yesterday, too. I agree with Pidgey, you may just see your little Speedy again sooner than later, especially if you keep putting seed and water out there...  and I've heard that it's good luck if they poop on you. 

Pidgey, thanks for bringing me in on this one, I'm honored that you thought of me. I haven't been much up to even be lurking on PT lately, but I am always happy to help when I can!

Cynthia, what a good link! I love Wikipedia, but hadn't thought of using it that way...you just gave me a whole new resource  

Best wishes all,

Carol Member...ADA and CDA


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I love Wikipedia, but hadn't thought of using it that way...you just gave me a whole new resource


I have only just discovered that facility myself. A lot of the birds that I have looked up don't have photos to match, which is a bit disappointing. But they will be added in time!

Cynthia


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## JoyfulSongTree (Apr 7, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> ...A lot of the birds that I have looked up don't have photos to match, which is a bit disappointing. But they will be added in time!


Thanks, Cynthia, for the heads up re: the absence of some of the pics... Let's hope they'll be adding them soon  ... In the meantime, I'll be appreciating that there are geographical lists available as leads to other pictorial resources -- I like using Google's "Images", but that's not at all efficient when I don't know what I'm looking for! 

Best wishes

Carol...Member ADA and CDA


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