# sunflower seeds



## aloft

Hello everyone.

I recall being told by the vet not to give pigeons sunflower seeds. Reason being they cannot crack the hard, pointy shell, which could even prove to be dangerous if stuck in their digestive system, and even puncture their intestines.

I have also noticed these are the very first seeds they all pick out from the rest of the mix. What gives?

Ely


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## fred2344

Aloft,
They adore sunflower seeds in the shell expecially black oil sunflower seeds. Somehow, they know they need that food. I throw seed by the handful to the flock that I take care of and some of the birds stand by my feet waiting for spillage to fall to the ground and grab up the sunflower seeds the first thing. 
In a young bird, sunflower seeds can obstruct the system, at least that is the way it is in feral birds. I think it is becuase of two reasons; The youngsters don't have enough grit to help grind down the shells and their systems are not developed to a point where they can eat everything the adults can. The adults are fine with the sunflower seeds.
If I have a bird at home, it's becuase something is wrong with it and the first thing I do when giving a food cup filled with seed, is to remove any sunflower seeds. When the bird is better and after I have hand fed grit, I'll let the bird have some in its food cup.
I have personally picked up pigeons that could not hold food. They threw it up pretty quickly after having fed them. In many of these instances, they also threw up sunflower seeds. It wasn't until the last sunflower seed was expelled, that they could hold food. Every single one of those birds were youngsters.
As a side to this, dry roasted peanuts which they also love, can kill. All the oils have been taken out in the roasting process and these peanuts lay in the crop like rocks. An adult can handle it but a youngster cannot. I have seen plenty of youngsters that had to throw up the peanuts before they could hold down food. So, it's the same thing with sunflower seeds and dry roasted peanuts.
I think they love the peanuts more than the seeds. I have actually seen male adults fight over one with squirrels. Can you imagine a pigeon and a squirrel facing off with each other over one peanut? It may look cute, but to them, it is a matter of life and death.


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## John_D

Fred,

Absolutely with you on peanuts - my ferals get them, but they are small peanuts, only size of maples, and just plain shelled. 

Never tried sunflower - maybe I'll put a few out.

Hey, our boys are tough - I saw a lone feral stand his ground over a pile of corn against two male Mallards - even wing-slapped them









John


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## pigeonraiser

i"ve read to never give pigeons cracked corn because it could damage the crop.i think i read that in a AU brochure.


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## John_D

I'm none too sure just what cracked corn is, Pigeonraiser? My ferals get racing mix, but the ferals at the wildfowl reserve feed on some kind of corn which folk buy there for the ducks

John


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## fred2344

I have read some things about using cracked corn and have to admit that I don't know if this is accurate information.
Some fanciers will not feed cracked corn because of the sharp edges. They feel that the edges can cut the mucous membranes of the throat as the corn goes down. Lesions in the membranes can open the bird to any opportunistic infection like canker to gain a foothold. Again, I don't know if this is accurate or not.


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## robo squab

Hi Everybody!

My pigeons love sunflower seeds and go crazy over peanut shells but I noticed that the younger juvenile pigeons like the cracked corn and the milo I give them wild bird food I never knew that these seeds could be of harm I will be careful. Fred can you elaborate on the corn some more? I wnat to know if I shouldn't feed it to them at all or what are my options? Thanks Alot! Everyone
Robo Squab!!


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## WhiteWingsCa

we were told not to feed cracked corn as well....something to do with them not digesting it as well, and loosing a lot of the nutritional value.

(cracked corn, for that person who asked, is corn that is broken up into pieces, as opposed to "whole corn")

btw....popping corn is ok for pigeons too...and smaller, so easier for the little ones to eat! A lot of "pigeon mixes" come with popping corn in it.


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## fred2344

I wish I could elaborate on the cracked corn issue but it's all anecdotal as far as I know. I can't point to a reference on this. It seems to be the general consensus of people who know pigeons but I honestly don't know where they got this information from. Pigeonraiser says this was put into print and I hope we can get a reference on it. 
To me it sounds reasonable that cracked corn, that has so many sharp edges on them, might scratch the mucous membranes and open the birds to any opportunistic infection. I know nothing about whether they have more trouble digesting this stuff.
I feed wildbird seed that has cracked corn it it to feral flocks and have no idea if it creates a problem for them. So, I don't want to come across as a hypocrite and tell you to desist from something when I do it. 
The problem is that a lot of the information I come across is anecdotal. It could be from very intelligent people who are reasoning out a possiblility about the mucous membranes without knowing for certain.
I pass the information along in the hope that someone will be able to elaborate on it better than me. 
Sunflower seeds in the shell and raw roasted peanuts, I'm postive about. I have seeen enough obstructions from these items to tell you about this with great certainty. Young birds can obstruct on both. Their systems cannot handle it. I see people throwing peanuts to squirrels and cross my fingers that none of the younger birds will get any.
Older birds go after peanuts like there was no tomorrow. If it is dry roasted and they regurgitate it up out of sight is something I don't know but I have had younger birds that died from too many peanuts that did not come back up.


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## Feefo

I'm not quite sure that corn means the same thing in the UK and the US...something that John could check up on during his hols?


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## John_D

Indeed, a good idea, Cynthia. I shall obtain samples, so I know what it is! If there's a pigeon food place in Phoenix or Tucson, I shall surely track it down! I suspect what they feed the ducks at the wildfowl reserve is not actually corn at all.

John


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## Nooti

[I suspect what they feed the ducks at the wildfowl reserve is not actually corn at all.]
You're right John I think it is maize. It looks the same as what I have seen for sale here which is termed corn, but the sack label says Maize. Now I am not a botanist so do not know whether this is two different terms for the same plant product, or whether they are two different crops.


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## John_D

OK, we have the corn under control









US corn is 'Zea Mays' - hence we Brits calling it Maize, I guess. In the UK, corn is often taken to mean various grains, like wheat and barley. My local 'duckery' actually sell small grains which are probably wheat (I'll check next time). I get whole yellow corn (maize) in pigeons mixes.

For anyone who has not done so, I have just been looking up Levi. His book states that 'yellow dent corn' is the main variety for pigeon feed, but he also refers to 'white dent', 'yellow flint', popcorn - and cracked corn. His view on this last is that it's no good for pigeon feed, but not due to sharp edges in the breaking. He says it is more expensive to produce (due to the process of breaking), if not sifted properly there can be too much fine grain and it can go mouldy faster through moisture absorption in storage.

But, we have to bear in mind that 'The Pigeon' was first published back in 1941.

John


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## raynjudy

Hi, John:

That book, The Pigeon, was sent to me as a gift by a member of this forum. The kindness and generosity of this group still amazes me. And my God! What a tome it is! While I don't appreciate the piece on the squab industry, it is objective, at any rate. A Herculean effort, this book! A must for any pigeon library, it can sometimes be found in discount book stores. It can be ordered at Barnes & Noble too, but dig deep into your pockets--it's like $80.00 delivered. Anyway, if Levi speaks from experience, I will have to defer to it.

If memory serves, the etymology of "maize" is Spanish. Here it's corn--on or off the cob! Most Wild Bird Mix has it--including Kaytee.

David Marx, DVM, briefly discusses corn under "Energy Loading", as before a race. Runners know this as "carb Loading". He seems to advocate corn as part of a staple feed (but the cracked issue is not addressed). Keep in mind that this is a racer's perspective on nurtition and performance, and that a balance of carbs and fat is carefully looked at.

As for me, corn bread with butter and honey is about as perfect as a food gets!







Heaven, I'm in heaven...

--Ray


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