# Heavy Loss



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Be alerted there have been some very heavy losses in the last 4 days.Three of the big time one loft race have suffered heavy losses TRIPLE CROWN 349 went, 124 home,225 lost.CALIFORNIA CLASSIC 325 went, 2 home, 323 lost,SNOWBIRD 300+went,100+home,200-lost. Some of the lost may still get home on their own,but the losses will still be heavy.I don't know what the K factor has been but with losses of this magnitude the K factor must be very high. .GEORGE


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

OMG!  Those are horrible statistics. I certainly hope more birds return home. It will be very busy on 911 Pigeon Alert


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How sad. Those are heavy losses indeed. I wonder what happened.

Reti


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*K-factor*

For those that don't know what the K-factor is, its related to sun spots. When the sun spot activity is high it has an effect on Radio transmission It is also believed that it does effect the birds homing ability. I will have to google the K-factor to see if it has been high for the last 4 or 5 days. I know some of the trainers of these birds and I know that they do a good job traing the birds. .GEORGE


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Oh, George, that is SO SAD! I'm really sorry to hear those stats!  

I will certainly send HOMING VIBES to the lost ones!!

Hopefully, these birds will still make it home, even if they are taking the long way around!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Just googled the k-factor, k-index it seems that the factor or index has been low so it would not have had an effect on those races. I'm at a loss for an answer here......GEORGE


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

So sorry to hear about this George.  
That's an incredible number of MIA.  

You mentioned *Snowbird*. I'm wondering if this is the member who used to post here some time ago? I know he races pigeons.

Bless all those babies out there that haven't returned home yet.

Please do update as information comes to you George. Thanks.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

George, sorry to hear about such heavy losses, devasting really. Hope they
still make it back home. Something quirky up north here in my urban neighbor-
hood. A couple of times this month I've seen perhaps one hundered and fifty
birds (not pigeons) lined up along the phone wires in a small intersection on my
way to work with many more circling in the sky. Never seen this before and 
had to pull over to watch.

fp


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

george simon said:


> Be alerted there have been some very heavy losses in the last 4 days.Three of the big time one loft race have suffered heavy losses TRIPLE CROWN 349 went, 124 home,225 lost.CALIFORNIA CLASSIC 325 went, 2 home, 323 lost,SNOWBIRD 300+went,100+home,200-lost. Some of the lost may still get home on their own,but the losses will still be heavy.I don't know what the K factor has been but with losses of this magnitude the K factor must be very high. .GEORGE


Well, this is really bad news. The sad part is that the majority of them will never make it home and will never be found. Is there a web site for any of these races with a possible breeders list with band numbers etc.........I'm sure that SOME of these bird will wind up on 911 and if we could go directly to whoever the handler was rather than trying to contact owners, just to be told that the bird was in one of these races,it would sure save some time. This is so sad.............


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

CINDY, Two of those races were from ARIZONA to SO CAL,SAN DIEGO I would guess that 911 in ARIZONA, will have there hands full I hope most make it back in the next day or two.It has been my experance that if the bird is not home by the morning of the third day it lossed and is in the need of help.lets all pray they get home. .GEORGE


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

This is so sad!!! I wonder what is causing this... So many birds lost mysteriously.  I'll pray that at *least* most of them make it home.. I know you can't save them all. I hope they return ASAP.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

RENEE,Go to the www.sandiegocombine.com go to the links all three races are there. GEORGE


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> You mentioned *Snowbird*. I'm wondering if this is the member who used to post here some time ago? I know he races pigeons.
> 
> Cindy


I don't think so, Cindy, about Snowbird. We've emailed back and forth quite a bit and it's my impression that he keeps about a dozen and a half birds with him in his apartment, feeds some wild ones and is acquainted with some of the local racers but I don't think he races any birds himself.

May be wrong, but I'm guessing that the name is a coincidence.

Pidgey


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Could the resent fires in S. CA. have anything to do with it. I live about 25 mi. from one of the bad fires and saw an eagle sitting on the telephone pole across the street from my house. Beautiful and magestic, he was so misplaced.

Feather


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

george simon said:


> RENEE,Go to the www.sandiegocombine.com go to the links all three races are there. GEORGE


thank you George............


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*update*

UPDATE TRIPLE CROWN 176 HOME 173 STILL OUT.........I need to make a correction wish I could say it was for the better in the SNOWBIRD there were 411 birds sent not 300+the birds home 157 home leaving 254 birds lost. No update on the CALIFORNIA CLASSIC the race was yesterday so I hope that they get a lot home today.Hope to have an update this evening............   GEORGE


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*global warming maybe?*

god I hope they find their way back home, this is just so sad... I pray for their safe way home...Andi


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Feather said:


> Could the resent fires in S. CA. have anything to do with it. I live about 25 mi. from one of the bad fires and saw an eagle sitting on the telephone pole across the street from my house. Beautiful and magestic, he was so misplaced.
> 
> Feather


HI FEATHER, I don't think the fires is the cause of this the 2 San Diego races were well south of the fire area I would say about 60 to 70 miles south. the other race the Snowbird is well west of the fire area about 80 or 90 mlies. I do have a theory ,years ago almost all families of race birds were built around birds that flew the distance because it took a bird with good homing instinct.Today many breeders are looking for faster birds so they breed speed to speed as they want to win these big money races.This I believe is creating birds with poor homing instinct. there is more to my feeling but I don't want to upset any one,so I will cut it here. .GEORGE


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

OK, stupid question of the day: 

I can understand breeding for speed, BUT, if scientists don't know how pigeons "home," how does one know what TO or NOT to breed for in the "homing" area?  

If one breeds for speed - which means he wins the race HOME the fastest, wouldn't the homing go along with the speed in future breedings?

For those who race, who would want a speedy pigeon who can't find his way home!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

mr squeaks said:


> OK, stupid question of the day:
> 
> I can understand breeding for speed, BUT, if scientists don't know how pigeons "home," how does one know what TO or NOT to breed for in the "homing" area?
> 
> ...


This will be debated until the end of time........... I agree with you, there is only one way to know if a bird has a good homing instinct and that's send it away from home and see if it comes back. Besides the homing instinct, there are so many other factors that determine whether a bird makes it or not and no one will ever convince me that in these three races mentioned in this thread and the dozens of other all over the world every year, that the people who are sending thier birds and MONEY, (and lots of it) don't think that they are sending the best they have to send. When there are losses of 100's of birds, I personally don't believe that homing has anything to do with it. There are other factors working that apparently we don't know about or we'd do something about it if we could. I have no explanation for these losses. It's so sad and the saddest part is the fact the probably 75% at least of these lost birds will never make it home and they will never be found. They are just gone. Where?? I wish we knew.  
There certainly are birds that are bred to fly short and fast and there are some bred to fly long and steady. Then there are birds that can do it all. But, you are right, until we KNOW what makes these birds little brains tick, all you can do is raise them, train them, ooh and ahh over how good they look or how good their condition is.........but until you send them to a race and they actually come home, NONE of us know whether we've bred a bird WITH a good homing instinct, WITHOUT a good homing instinct or NO homing instinct whatsoever. JMHO


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, mr squeaks,

When it comes to racing, breeding is a trial-and-error exercise. You don't know what you've got until it performs and casualties are one of the means of making room for more experimentation. So, that's life in the loft. There are cases of birds that have demonstrated extraordinarily strong homing qualities like a bird that a local racer had--the bird got taken on the toss by mistake since it had gotten some kind of gunk in its feathers rendering it unable to fly. When the racer let the birds go in the toss, he discovered that this bird was along as it ended up on the ground. He chased the crap out of it trying to catch it to haul it back home and he just couldn't catch it. He found it walking up the driveway a few weeks later and he thought that if this bird could find its way home walking and enduring the hardships--it must REALLY have exceptional homing instinct. As such, he didn't "cull" it. That's a REALLY lucky bird.

But speed isn't necessarily about the flying velocity--sometimes, the fastest birds are those who don't fly with the rest of the flock. And sometimes, the fastest birds are the ones who trap immediately upon coming home instead of landing on the roof and cooling off before trapping. That kind of thing.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Update California Classic Race*

CALIFORNIA CLASSIC RACE 23 Birds Home Today Plus 2 From Yesterday Total25 Home 325 Went 300 Still Lost...................george


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Those are devastating numbers.  I'm glad some more made it home, though.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I do hope they make it home. On several occations I have had exhausted racers make a pit stop at my house. They just stay 1-3 days, and then they are on their way. 

Until we find out for sure the way that a pigeon navigates his way home, we will never be able to find out the reason for so many losses.

Feather


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

george simon said:


> Today many breeders are looking for faster birds so they breed speed to speed as they want to win these big money races.This I believe is creating birds with poor homing instinct. there is more to my feeling but I don't want to upset any one,so I will cut it here. .GEORGE


No reason to "cut", George. We're all here because we care and we are interested. The more you and others can tell us and educate us about, the better off we are .. JMO ..

Terry


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*ok here are some*

????? because well I'm curious since I know nothing about the racing pigeon or their keepers. And I know nothing about the races.

1. How long does one train a racing pigeon before a big race? one week, weeks, months? 

2. Do people sometimes just take their pigeons out with no training at all to the big race?

3. What time of year do they hold the big races? all through out the year? or winter, summer? and also are they released early AM?

4. Do they check for up coming storms, before they are released?

5. And all so do they ever hold races near Air Force facilities that fly near the birds ever. What I am trying to say would the pigeon org that is holding the race would they know if a air show was taking place in the flight path of the pigeons ??

6. Last but not least. Do they have some one (people) monitoring the birds as they take flight and fly in areas along the flight path of the race? 

Just curious,and trying to understand how something like this can happen. Thanks

It's to bad they couldn't attach low jack type devices to some of the pigeons to relocate them...but then again this would be a weight factor on the pigeon who is racing for $$ maybe send some extra pijdges out along for the flight to attach them to. 

Andi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

andinla said:


> ????? because well I'm curious since I know nothing about the racing pigeon or their keepers. And I know nothing about the races.
> 
> 1. How long does one train a racing pigeon before a big race? one week, weeks, months?
> 
> ...


These are all very good questions. In a perfect world, these losses wouldn't happen.  When there are BIG losses such as these, I really don't think that there is any ONE thing that causes it. When the losses are small, it's due to predators and other factors that in a lot cases reflects directly back on the owner of the birds.
1. The birds begin training at a very young age. They are being "taught" about their surrounding as early as 35 days old. The training is gradual from there and most birds are about 6 months old or older by the time they go to the first race.
2. No one SHOULD send a bird to a race that hasn't been trained. And I don't believe it's a common practice, but, as in anything else in life, there will always be those idiots out there that do stupid things. It's not something that can be policed however. A fancier shows up to ship his birds, you assume the birds have been trained.
3. Your big races, and all young bird races for that matter, in the US anyway, are held during July to Nov. time frame. The big money races are held in Oct or Nov for the most part. The birds are always released as early as possible so that they have plenty of daylight hours to get home.
4. In most cases, you have a race secretary or race committee, who are home the morning of the release and are monitoring the weather. They are in contact with the person who is actually releasing the birds. Most fanciers start checking the weather for race day 3 to 4 days prior to the race. I personally start watching the weather for "next" week end THIS weekend. I never knew so much or paid so much attention to the weather as I have since we started racing birds. LOL
5. Again, the people who are in charge of releasing the birds, are aware of anything that may be in the flight path of the birds, including any other clubs that may be releasing near you or releases that may be coming from a different direction and cross paths with your birds.
6. Once the birds are released and out of sight, there is really no way to monitor them. Once released, they are on thier own until they return home. 

Ultimately, it's up to each individual fancier to monitor things such as weather and determine if you even want to ship your birds. It is very seldom that once a trailer full of birds travels 200, 300, 400 or 500 miles, will NOT release the birds and bring them back home. In my opinion, and I may get some flack on this, there are times when the weather man gets the forecast TOTALLY wrong and the birds should not be released, even after they've made it to the race station, but there are many fanciers that think if they go down the road, you gotta let em' go and hope for the best. 
I could write a small book about some releases that I've seen and was very unhappy about. For instance.........on race day, I'm up early and checking the weather at the release point and along the race course. A few years ago I got up, turned on the computer and what did I see? A HUGE storm system over TN, moving to the east through, SC, NC and VA. Our birds were released because the "powers that be" thought the birds could outfly the storm. There were over 20 tornado watches in the state of NC that day. We lost over half of our race team, along with lots of others loosing birds also. I was about as PISSED off as I've ever been. We had just won the race the week before, took 1st and 2nd and both of those birds were never seen again. 
There are awards given for things like champion bird, champion loft, average speed............I probably will never get any of these awards because I don't care how much I paid to race my birds, and that can be anywhere from $100 to $300 for an 8 week race season, if I don't like what I see in the weather, my birds stay at home. Period. I don't send my birds to race stations that have proven to be an overnight flight......meaning the birds don't make it home on the day and have to spend the night out and come in the next morning. I for the life of me can't see what having a 2 day race proves to anyone. There are only a select number of birds that can fly 500 miles in a day, but there are LOTS of them that can fly 400, spend the night in a tree, rest, and fly the other 100 the next morning.............
Well, I got long winded......sorry.......hope this helps you understand a little more about what goes on.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> *I don't think so, Cindy, about Snowbird*. We've emailed back and forth quite a bit and it's my impression that he keeps about a dozen and a half birds with him in his apartment, feeds some wild ones and is acquainted with some of the local racers but I don't think he races any birds himself.
> 
> May be wrong, but I'm guessing that the name is a coincidence.
> 
> Pidgey


After thinking about it, I believe you're correct Pidgey.
Maybe it was that some of his birds were able to free fly that I was thinking he raced his birds. 

At any rate, I hope the remaining 'lost' birds are able to return to their lofts without further incident. 

Thanks for your updates George.  

Cindy


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

THANKS, Renee! I don't think you were too long winded at all!!

Quite a fascinating glimpse into a world that most (pet) pigeon people never see. I only know one man in my area who races. Squeaks is a racing pij who will never be able to race again. He was only 30-35 days old (and still a squeaker, hence the name) when I found him with his badly broken wing. We think he might have been on a training flight. We had bad winds the day before and surmise that he might have been "blown" into a car. Lucky for Squeaks, the street was right next to "shelter" until I caught him. Have no idea how long he had been where I found him - next to a Burger King's DRIVE THRU (on the "safe" side, thank goodness!).

For the majority of racers who truly care for their birds, losing ANY would be devastating and I'm always so sorry to see these sad tales. I'm sorry about YOUR loss, Renee!

THANK YOU for taking the time to educate us about the world of the racing homing pigeon and their owners!

BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE RACES AND MAY ALL YOUR BIRDS COME HOME SAFELY!!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for explaining the whole process of racing, Renee.
I had no idea how complicated it is. 
I wish all racers would care for their birds as much as you do and the other members on this group. That would be a perfect world.

Reti


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

george simon said:


> HI FEATHER, I don't think the fires is the cause of this the 2 San Diego races were well south of the fire area I would say about 60 to 70 miles south. the other race the Snowbird is well west of the fire area about 80 or 90 mlies. I do have a theory ,years ago almost all families of race birds were built around birds that flew the distance because it took a bird with good homing instinct.Today many breeders are looking for faster birds so they breed speed to speed as they want to win these big money races.This I believe is creating birds with poor homing instinct. there is more to my feeling but I don't want to upset any one,so I will cut it here. .GEORGE


Past birds were built around what the flyer was flying. Long middle and short distance. Birds became known as speed birds because the certion flyers flew the short distance 250 miles average and did very well. Now these same birds could fly the distance. 500 mile plus. But the flyer chose not to sennd them out that far. Now today. We have young bird flyers only and some have not built that solid foundation. Weather times distances times hawks, K days, Micro waves ect. There are heavy amounts lost. Large number loses I think we look at several things. It is going to take some study to nail the main problem down. It has been going bad Alot if you noticed since 9 11. Perhaps radar increase micro waves. I know K days have increased but we have had those for ever really. And often birds fly lower and slower but make it home if just K days are the problem. Hawks scatter the birds chase them off coarse make them panic and will chase them 50 miles right on the tail.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

What a sad amount of losses..... On another note, I don't understand people that keep pigeons to race but also "cull" them if they're not perfect.  Wouldn't you think that someone who has been around pigeons at all, would see what special birds they are?? I hope many more of those lost pigeons make it back home.


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Renee*

Thank you so much for answering the ?? I posted. It sure sounds like a lot of work to have racing pigeons. It also sounds fun, but I am to emotional to have birds turn up lost, and would not be good at this sport. 

I sure hope more birds turn up back home...Andi


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Military Radio Signals????????????*

Today on AOL news military radio signal disrupts garage doors.Radio signals from CHEYENNE MOUNTIAN AIR STATION,in COLORADO SPRINGS. I wonder if some thing like this was happening during the week that we had all those large loses. It makes one think. I hope that we don't have the bad luck of ten days ago this weekend as I have two birds in a one loft race tomarrow.  GEORGE


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Might have been "haarp" running some higher than usual 'tests'..these would not be a matter of public notice, so, one can only infer...

So sorry to hear of all these lost Birds...

If any come this way, I will gladly give them hospitality.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategory.asp?catid=1&subcatid=2

As one arbitrary 'google' link among manymany...

Phil


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Very interesting article, Phil. Disturbing potential for destruction.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I would imagine that 'cell phone' relay and related 'towers' ( many of which are now disguised to look like Palm Trees, here in Las Vegas ) can mess with the Bird's directional and neurological subtleties also.

"Haarp" can also effect areas of course entirely remote from it's own location or immediate radius, for deflecting energy 'beams' on the bottom of the Ionosphere for them to then scatter or resonate or otherwise pattern in quite distal areas.

There are also other related 'energy' beam and far radio type sciences being applied making various wavelengths of strong signal-transmissions, which I would imagine effect Creatures generally, in various ways...

I did not realize this thread was started so many days ago...

Are there any up-dates as for these Birds getting home?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

I did not realize this thread was started so many days ago...

Are there any up-dates as for these Birds getting home?


Phil
Las Vegas[/QUOTE]
PHIL, There has not been much change from the last update it has very tough.There was to be a race today but it was canceled do to very high winds 30 to 35 mph. with gusts to 40. The winds would have been tail winds but them being so strong the birds would still have been put through a needless trial so the man in charge had the driver bring the birds home. We will try again next week. .GEORGE


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

Whatever the reason thats a big loss, I sure hope some are found or trap into someones loft. Rena


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi George, 


I am so sorry this whole matter has remaind so unresolved and disappointing.

I would have expected these Pigeons to return home once conditions were favorable again...and this has been what now, a Month almost?

I know when I used to 'release' home-raise feral orphan Babys, the first few times I went to the fartherst Park, 20 miles away, and each time, they were back home before I was. These had zero training of course, and were pretty young too. I was just trying to set them free! and I did not know any better...Lol...

So, what the heck happenned to all these trained Racing Pigeons then?


If something was temporarily effecting their Navaigational skills, some Radio energy or microwave or long wave or whatever military or black ops tests or incidental transmissions...

Would we not expect the Birds to just come on home anyway, once the interference was over?

Any idea how widespread this was? Or, if it is 'over' now as far a new Races' results are concerned?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Up Date 12/18/06*

Some birds have been reported in Arizona in the area close to the release point,by local flyers in the area I can't give any numbers as I do not have that info. I hope for the best. Some of the people that had birds in the race seem to think that fumes from the exhaust of the truck pulling the trailer may have been the reason.That may well be but we have never had that happen before so I am not all that sure and I am afraid that we will never realy know, but rest assured that we will make sure that exhust does not get to our birds. .GEORGE


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oye...

That would sure be the classic screw up I recon.

Remember how station wagons used to be? on a vacation, the rear tail-gate window open a little, and the exhaust would be pulled 'in' from the turbulance back there, and make everyone, especially in the back seat, really woozey or worse even.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

George,

Anyone that is still missing birds from this race might want to post the band #'s to 911 Pigeon Alert. I'm sure that any found birds will eventually be traced to the rightful owner if they are AU or IF birds, but it could speed up the process if the owners would post their birds as missing.

Terry


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