# One pin tail



## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Whats a one pin tail?


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

when you hold your bird, all the tail feathers tuck up under the other to look like one feather..


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)




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## fresnobirdman (Dec 27, 2008)

A real nice pin tail will not let you see the other feathers under the first one.
They all stack perfectly on top of each other.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

raftree3 said:


> Whats a one pin tail?


It is a term in the GFL dictionary. My best breeding cock has the worst pen tail in my loft. The term is defined as something you put on the pedigrees in place of race results. The dictionary also includes: foundation quality, eagle eye, one of the best, strong back, tight vent, velvet feathers, down from my best and so on.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is a term in the GFL dictionary. My best breeding cock has the worst pen tail in my loft. The term is defined as something you put on the pedigrees in place of race results. The dictionary also includes: foundation quality, eagle eye, one of the best, strong back, tight vent, velvet feathers, down from my best and so on.


Ha! Awesome.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is a term in the GFL dictionary. My best breeding cock has the worst pen tail in my loft. The term is defined as something you put on the pedigrees in place of race results. The dictionary also includes: foundation quality, eagle eye, one of the best, strong back, tight vent, velvet feathers, down from my best and so on.


And my long, bushy tailed bird got me a 1st place 
I agree with you!


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Chromie said:


> when you hold your bird, all the tail feathers tuck up under the other to look like one feather..


I thought it was when the bird was on its own not when holding it.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

JRNY said:


> I thought it was when the bird was on its own not when holding it.


could be. this is what I was told...


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

David...just looked at your web site. Awesome photos.....even the ones not including pigeons.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

MaryOfExeter said:


> And my long, bushy tailed bird got me a 1st place
> I agree with you!


Funny thing is my bird Ed when I got him looked different than the other birds. He was lower to the ground a bit funny looking and had a wide tail. My thoughts were that he was the first bird to go. I would give him a chance. Well he has bred for me from 2005-current and in five years has bred:
Children-1st,1st,1st,3rd,3rd,9th,17th,23rd 
Grand Children- 18th,1st,3rd,4th,28th,3rd,4th,4th,19th,12th,30th

Not bad for a fat tailed bird. He only breeds 4-6 birds a year. So out of about 30 birds bred I have only flew about half of them competitively. Most I have kept to stock my loft, sold or given away. So these results are from about 15 birds that I know of. Funny his offspring have quite nice one pin tails. So, don't judge a bird by its tail.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The idea comes also as in a show a racing homer should demonstrate 1 to 1 and 1/2 tail feather. So a single tail feather showing is a tighter tail feathering. pin tail in todays idea. Does it give the bird more control in flight with less drag perhaps. A bird showing 2 tail feathers would be considered loose tailed. BUT at times a bird not flown Say a stock bird The muscles would be out of shape And alow a looser tail. What pigeons look like is what th breeder / owner wants in there birds. Tight tail, apple body, ect. Some people want there birds to have a flat head thinking they are better race birds. But most birds do average a 1 to 1 and 1/2 tail feathering if you take time to notice. The old story about back coverage was used to But today alot like the open backed birds thinking they make for faster flying birds in the 300 and less. Where back coverage was idea as if the bird flew in foul weather light drizzle to rain The bird shed the water better not getting the down feathering wet. Alot goes into mans idea on pigeons


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I like when the birds come down to feed, that they all look like a million bucks. Not all their tails are perfect one pin, but they look healthy. They celebrate the meal by flapping as hard as they can. The cocks fight for position. The hens meet me at the door. They all look perfect. Funny also I always thought that when in flight the tail is fanned out to steer the bird. When the tail is at rest has nothing to do with the tail in flight. I have birds with perfect one pin tails. Does not seem to make a difference in the basket. Looks cool though. But so does a 1st place diploma.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

*how about tight vent.....*

what advantage does it give a racing pigeon versus having a bad vent



kalapati
San Diego


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is a term in the GFL dictionary. My best breeding cock has the worst pen tail in my loft. The term is defined as something you put on the pedigrees in place of race results. The dictionary also includes: foundation quality, eagle eye, one of the best, strong back, tight vent, velvet feathers, down from my best and so on.


Good one !


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

there are exceptions for everything but i think on average more good or especially great birds will have one-pin tails and tight vents than they do loose tails and loose vents.

like i said there are always exceptions but you won't handle too many champion breeders and moreso champion racers that have major physical flaws. notice i use the word champion because almost any bird can win a single race based on luck or something fluky happening during the race but when a bird races well or wins consistently obviously its no fluke.

*when you do find a bird that has one of these so-called flaws and they are still a great bird i think that may even be a bigger compliment to the bird as they had to overcome that flaw and still turned out great.*

it's kind of like the famous athletes that did not have all of the physical ability in the world but still made a name for themselves on sheer heart grit smarts and determination a guy like Wes Welker on the Patriots comes to mind. was always told he was too small, too short, too slow, can't jump high enough but he's really smart determined and has a ton of heart. if you put those mental traits into a guy with more physical ability thats when you get a guy like Jerry Rice or maybe even better if thats even possible


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

kalapati said:


> what advantage does it give a racing pigeon versus having a bad vent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it is not the feather that is the advantage, but rather the muscles that make them one-pin tail like. If pigeons can keep that tail tight or smaller when flying it would create less drag. But when they fly their tail is spread up. So I am still confused myself.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

RodSD said:


> I am still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it is not the feather that is the advantage, but rather the muscles that make them one-pin tail like. If pigeons can keep that tail tight or smaller when flying it would create less drag. But when they fly their tail is spread up. So I am still confused myself.


maybe when a pigeon starts to cruise especially long distances like several hours on the wings one pin tail maybe is an advantage. for i noticed that they only spread their tail feathers when maneuvering or landing. but i'm still confused about the advantage of tight vents. what performance advantage do racing pigeons get versus bad vents?????


kalapati
San Diego


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

RodSD said:


> I am still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it is not the feather that is the advantage, but rather the muscles that make them one-pin tail like. If pigeons can keep that tail tight or smaller when flying it would create less drag. But when they fly their tail is spread up. So I am still confused myself.


Something to think about. In the NFL there is a guy who finally missed his first race. He is washed up and needs to sit the couch. Yet after a hall of fame career, he is beat up. He does not have a one pin tail anymore. If we used that criteria in selecting him to possibly carry on his genetic quarterback genes to his offspring, we would have culled him by now. He has a broken wing, leg, head etc. In my opinion the only criteria for breeding good birds is for the babies to be tested. If we used any other criteria we are chasing our tail. By looking at a bird all we can tell is its health, phenotype, nothing about its genetic make-up, its geneotype. We need to look at its offspring for that. We might want to look at the final result for selection. If we want birds with one pin tails that is what we should use for selection, nice eyes- eyes. Race results- race results. Makes total sense to me.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

kalapati said:


> maybe when a pigeon starts to cruise especially long distances like several hours on the wings one pin tail maybe is an advantage. for i noticed that they only spread their tail feathers when maneuvering or landing. but i'm still confused about the advantage of tight vents. what performance advantage do racing pigeons get versus bad vents?????
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego


i don't know with the vents but maybe has something to do with muscle in that region. there has to be at least some merit to it though as most good pigeons seem to have tight vents. again there are always exceptions but i've handled a lot of great pigeons and very very few of them have had loose vents although there were a few

at least with the tail it makes more sense as i think racing wise a weak back loose tail creates more drag. just the fact that the bird doesn't have as much control over it's tail as a bird with a strong back and tight tail has to be a slight disadvantage aerodynamically

as hillfamilyloft suggested though the only true reliable indicator of a birds worth as a racer or breeder is testing and using the race results for selection and when you do that there will always be good birds that don't conform to every perfect standard physically but race well anyways

if you believe at all though that the physical qualities of a bird effect it's performance (and i can't see how anybody would not) if you have a bird with a physical flaw that you will be breeding from the wise thing to do is to pair it to another bird that is strong in that category to where that flaw doesn't get any worse in the offspring (hopefully they improve)

say you got a really good breeder with a weak back then pair it to mate with a stronger back and who knows maybe the babies come out even better than the parent with the flaw since they themselves now dont have this flaw.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I just got back rereading some aerodynamic and flight mechanics about birds especially on pigeons and I've read that when birds are flying fast they change their flight surface area (wing areas + tail area) so apparently the tail surface area gets smaller along with their wing area when they want to go faster. When they want to go slow,as we notice, they spread their tail and probably slow their wing beat. Interestingly the tail can affect lift coefficient. Also apparently how the bird tucks in their legs affect their aerodynamic as well. I didn't know before that pigeons hold their legs (tuck position) differently depending on flight speed. Now it made sense to me when I notice my birds feet semi-hanging (not fully tuck in) when they are flying. Apparently that was medium speed flight!


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

RodSD said:


> I just got back rereading some aerodynamic and flight mechanics about birds especially on pigeons and I've read that when birds are flying fast they change their flight surface area (wing areas + tail area) so apparently the tail surface area gets smaller along with their wing area when they want to go faster. When they want to go slow,as we notice, they spread their tail and probably slow their wing beat. Interestingly the tail can affect lift coefficient. Also apparently how the bird tucks in their legs affect their aerodynamic as well. I didn't know before that pigeons hold their legs (tuck position) differently depending on flight speed. Now it made sense to me when I notice my birds feet semi-hanging (not fully tuck in) when they are flying. Apparently that was medium speed flight!


that sounds like a good read and very interesting information. all things being equal the body and aerodynamics have to count for something on the bird. this is probably also where the size and weight of the muscle, length and width of the flight feathers, spacing in the flight feathers, etc. all come into play

then of course you have to add in intelligence, toughness, and determination of the individual bird plus still on top of that it is is the handler's job to have that bird in peak condition and fed right for the race

so many little variables and when you add them all up.....


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree. The basket test will summarize the result by adding all those variables. You forgot luck though.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

RodSD said:


> I agree. The basket test will summarize the result by adding all those variables. You forgot luck though.


yeah luck can definitely be a variable for one race or maybe two throughout a season but over the course of a season luck will run out pretty quick.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

The best youngbird I this breed this year has PEACOCK tail forget about this people imagenation of a perfect handling bird.....and the only way to figure out good birds is race basket and training basket... it apply to any family your using...


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

We should do a study. After the race is over take say our 1st 10 birds or all your birds and order them. Then go to the loft and while you feed them order them by one-pin tail. See which one is the best, second best and so on to the last one. Then see if their is a correlation. It their is then I would use that as my selection criteria on which birds to send to the race.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

RodSD said:


> I am still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it is not the feather that is the advantage, but rather the muscles that make them one-pin tail like. If pigeons can keep that tail tight or smaller when flying it would create less drag. But when they fly their tail is spread up. So I am still confused myself.


The wings are what gives the bird flight, the tail feathers give the bird control. so tight pin means better muscle control so then better control in flight. As I am writing this I am watching a sparrow outside my window. He is using his tail feathers to control forward and side to side motion as he tries to land on my window. Basicly the tail is the steering wheel and the wings are the motor. That with brains and motivation makes up the racing pigeon. Tune up your birds folks, 2011 racing season is around the corner.

Tony


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

As far as vents go I like a bird to have nice solid vents rather than vents that give and move at even the slightest pressure. These may not exactly be "tight" vents but I think it is more an indication of a well built skeletal structure than anything. Extremely wide vents are also a big no-no for me, might be personal preference but I have never handled a good flier with vents that I could fit my thumb into.

I have handled several very good fliers that had fidgety tails, although they were usually small hens. I'm sure more good race birds than not have one pin tails, but the love of home and strong inner compass can definitely trump any physical deformity. I just see breeding for certain physical qualities a way of keeping a family grounded, but that should not be your only criteria.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I would also like to do the same test for the throat, and eye. Grade the pigeons the day back from the race and see if their is a correlation.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

One way to test the one-pin tail theory. Put a rubber band on the tail so that the bird can't fully spread the tail. Measure the speed. The control would be the pigeon without the rubber band. Measure the speed, too. Null hypotheses would be that there is no difference.

My guess is that the bird will get speed increase, but will lose distance traveled. I based that on flight dynamic/mechanical theory of flight. There is a theory that birds have the options to go fast or to go far. It is how they conserve their energy. It should be obvious that faster birds will not travel far. They will get tired easily flying hard and fast.

So why a pin tail would work? My theory is that the bird's tail having less surface area slows lift so the bird have to compensate for it by flying fast horizontally to keep going and not fall out. Thus you get speed increase. Gliders like big hawks and eagle have big surface area so they float, but they are slow.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Vent theory. If we are talking about muscles, then it may contribute as well because pigeons use tail to effect angle of attack. It affects maneuverability. They need strong tail muscles to help them go up or down or sideways(?). I suppose all of these contribute to energy management. The more aerodynamic the bird is, the more it uses less energy.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I would also like to do the same test for the throat, and eye. Grade the pigeons the day back from the race and see if their is a correlation.


who knows about the throat and eye as those are much more controversial theories that it is hard to see how they would directly relate to physical performance

as for the physical attributes of the bird there absolutely must be something to a bird having what most flyers would consider good physical traits like a one pin tail because you will never go to a great loft and handle a bunch of pigeons that feel like trash.

everybody has the oddball bird or two that doesn't conform to all of the standards but if you go to a loft like Ganus or Campbell Strange or Peeman when they were still around, all of these champion birds they have don't handle like garbage. on the contrary most of them have the traits guys look for like a single pin tail etc.

ive handled very few true champions racers that have major physical flaws, so whether they were bred to be that way or that's just the way that most good birds handle either way is irrelevant because you wont see many champion pigeons that are terrible in the hand

again there are always exceptions but those exceptions dont mean that something like a one-pin tail doesn't have merit or function for the bird....it just means those exceptions succeeded in spite of their flaws


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