# found a pigeon, how can i help it



## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

i found a pigeon in the snow and it let me pick it up. 

this was 24 hours ago. 

it stayed in my bathroom overnight. 

i offered it a piece of donut, and some water in a catfood can. 

can't tell that it partook of either. 

now i have moved it into a kitchen cabinet.

gave it a piece of wood to perch on

it seems quite content

why didn't it eat the donut? 

i've put in a larger container of water, read on here it needs 1.5 inches depth

didn't put any sugar/salt in it yet

pigeons in parks go for breadcrumbs, why is this one uninterested in food?

its poop is clear yellowish liquid with a green bit in the center, generally

eyes seem a bit dried out, but it opens them wide when something's up

it's a very calm bird, i'm amazed. lets me stroke its head, etc. 

maybe that's just a pigeon. i've never had one before. 

don't have time for this one but would like to help it

if it doesn't want donut is there any point in trying something else? what would that be?

sorry to be a dope, and i could read this whole forum and be an expert, but i've got my hands full with other things. 

right now the pigeon's in the kitchen cupboard and seems content and sleeping. what do i do....

here's a photo

http://www.junkshop.com/pigeon.jpg

ray


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

You're not a dope...you're a great guy for helping the poor pigeon out.

if he let you pick him up...he is probably weak. Could be exhausted, or could be he is coming down with something. Don't worry, pigeons cannot transmit to humans.....

OK, so....you are doing well by keeping him confined and (hopefully) warm (in a warm room or on a heating pad are the best options - heating pad under a layer of towel or fabric or such, turned on low)....and giving water.

If he is not eating the donut and/or cat food...try some seed. Safflower seed or some sort of wild bird mix. Do you have any nuts at home ? Chop 'em up into small pieces and see if he tries some of that.....

Now...can you answer these Q's ? :

1) does he seem alert and interested, or kinda sleepy and still ?

2) does he puff up/fluff up his feathers a lot, or are they usually slick to his body ?

3) Do her eyes look sleepy or closed very often ?

4) Can you feel around her breast/chest area...is the chestbone/keelbone protruding or prominent ? 

5) Can you move around his feathers and see if possibly he has an injury somewhere...a cut, a scab, an abrasion, a scratch, a lesion ?

Let's start with that. If he/she doesn't go for the water and seed, then you can try something else afterwards (veggie-pooping....but let's not get ahead of ourselves).

Also...where are you ? We may have members nearby.

Hey, Ray....thanks for saving him/her !


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Under General Discussions in Pigeon-talk find a sticky(thats what they call the tags that I guess are permanent) and find the title: Basic Steps to Saving the life of a Pigeon or Dove and read that real careful..... and it tells you what to do --to save the pigeon you have ---read that and follow that---Tomorrow find out if there is a animal rehabb place in your area---call up any vet and ask them to refer you to a place where they help wild birds...make sure they don't put them down...The pigeon you have is dehydrated and in bad shape---read the sticky under general discussions by AZWhitefeather and I hope a rehab person gets on this thread to help you further. Don.t feed the bird until you read the sticky--you can gently try to put peas one at a time in its mouth and gently push it down to the throat and it might just swallow it or corn frozen but heated --warn--maybe a hard boiled egg--a small piece gently push it to the back of the babys throat--little at a time---also make little balls-of bread with water -little pea size and try to push that down its throat very gently and you could soak them in water to get liquid down this bird---read the information----It you follow it you can save this bird--but it doesn't look too good ..Where are you located maybe they People-talk can find someone to help you further or even take the bird to take care of it ..c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I am so glad that Jaye is on this situation and she will really help you ...c.hert


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Jaye's a 'he'  ...but thanks for the kind words 

Ray....try dipping his beak in the water...see if he recognizes it and starts drinking.

Also, yes, a c. hert suggests...read this:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/basic-life-saving-steps-9457.html

....but also, please do answer the Q's I asked above.....we gotta figure out how stable or unstable he/she may be.....


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I hope you come back after you read the information and talk with Jaye some more. My only recommodation is to try to get something down this birds crop without drowning or choking it with the things you might have on hand: frozen peas warmed : cereal if possible in little balls pea size small; frozen corn; hard boiled egg pieces of white slide down: bread soaked in water slide down and the bird might very well swallow it after you start pushing it to the back of the throat. Maybe 10 little things but bread soaked in water or grapes pieces of apple--pablum baby food--stick to these things--no donuts or anything like that--chopped in small pieces nuts--It doe not have to be a lot--just survival at this point--mostly liquid with balls of bread--small baby pea size and push it towards the back of the throat and the baby might very well swallow it---if it is conscious---and not in too bad of shape...picture looks terrible---dehydrated and starving....little by little---don.t overdue---this could make the situation worse-maybe about 10 pieces of something pea size mixed in water... I hope you are reading the information...Do all of this now and sort out the rest in between---take your time...c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I hope Cuspre comes back on line and talks with you Jaye---I need to go to bed now for I am taking my pigeon Mr. AL to the vet tomorrow very early...I wish you Cuspre good fortune and thanks for helping this baby pigeon and I sure with a prayer to the wind and Jaye help it will make it and thrive...c.hert


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

hey, great, thank you for the responses. nice to have some help. 

i made the water-sugar/salt liquid and am encouraged by the bird's willingness to drink. 

to a point. 

i put it's beak in the liquid and twice it has taken a single drink and that was all.

but it does smack it's tongue when i use an eyedropper to dribble the liquid along its beak. 

and it seems to take interest in the eyedropper, twisting its head to run its beak along the sides of the eyedropper. (like maybe thinking it's another bird's beak?)

i bought some safflower seeds but it really doesn't seem interested in food. 

however, it has pooped quite a bit (see new photos i've posted) so either this is food it ate prior to my finding it (though much of the poop was after 24 hours after i found the bird) or it's eaten some of the donut, or bread crumbs i put in its cupboard last night. 

i can't imagine it doing this, though. it doesn't even seem to see food in front of it. 

i wonder if it isn't blind. one eye looks better than the other. 

i bought some mixed frozen vegetables and maybe will try some peas or corn this evening. 

what does one do, use a soft pea to push open the upper beak, then push the pea into its beak, so it gets some pea mush? 

what do i use to push wet bread into its mouth? do i open the beak with my fingers? 

here are answers to your questions:

the bird does not appear to be injured. 

it is quite sleepy and still. eyes tend to stay mostly closed. 

feathers seem to be fluffy enough. it can fluff up. 

i live in jackson mich and would be glad to give the bird over to someone who wanted to care for it. i haven't looked for a bird rehabilitator yet. 

i am guessing maybe it is just an old bird that has got dehydrated with winter's lack of water. but what do i know. 

new photos are at http://www.junkshop.com/pigeon/


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Your doing wonderful Cuspre and I am very surprised it is alive and I think it most likely hit telephone or electric wires on the face and landed down.. Call up Foys pigeon supply free phone call and get a good eye antibiotic --tell them the eyes are swollen shut -and they will send you some--as well as a catalogue that you can look through--the catalogue is for free and their # is 1-877-355-7727 (free call). In the meanwhile maybe someone here can recommand a good antibiotic for the eyes (over the counter you can buy that won't hurt pigeons--maybe the triple antibiotic cream is okay but I just don"t know to tell you....but it needs this for the eyes as well as support feeding for now just to stablize it until it eats on its own--but it has trouble seeing I know and I hope both eyes come back on line... Call up some feed stores in your area and ask them where you can buy a pigeon mix (mixture of seeds) and feed this bird about 15 or 20 seeds about four times a day with water that you offer it by dipping it beak into it slightly-don't drown it and this will have to be done until it can see and gets it strength back then it will feed itself and the battle will be won. I would not use any medicine on it including worm and canker and antibiotics until you can bring it to a bird vet--call and ask around for a avian vet or exotic pet vet and they will recommand on further treatment. You have a heck of a bird there---I took My Mr. Al to the Vet today and many years ago he was in the same position as your birdie today and he made a very very nice pet bird that I have come very attached too----but you have to work for this---in order to let that bird survive and because I don't have a lot of faith in people I have my doubts for a good outcome...If you take it to a rehabber--they will help it---but you will never know if they put it down or not and I certainly don't trust them when it comes to pigeons...
Don"t overfeed it: Don't drown it by too much water but get some pedialyte plain --this is good for it because of the electrolites (baby dept store) and this will help rehydration it---the real dangers right now is it becoming dehydrated or malnourished or infection in the eyes and head.....Take it to a good avian vet as fast as you can --Monday maybe that should start your week off good....I am surprised it is still alive ---and you have done a real good job by keeping it alive ..Other people will join this thread and give other suggestions but this is the best that I can do at this time...Thank you so much and I mean this so much because I am really hooked on pigeons and if you give a chance you will be too----my late husband was from Michigan---and Oh what a man.....c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is how you would put a defrosted and warmed pea or corn into his mouth. You will probably have to push it toward the back of the throat, over the tongue. Then he should swallow. If you hold the bird against your body and try opening the mouth, it will be easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Let us know how it goes.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

BTW - he sounds sick to me (fluffy and eyes closed is not a good sign) - tell us how the veggie-popping goes (don't do bread - it's riskier) and then he may need to be put on some meds pretty quickly Anyone know of any good eye sorta drops\treatment for an eye injury ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Some would wash it with a saline solution, or with chamomile tea, as it has anti-inflammatory properties. And apply colloidal silver, which can be bought in health food stores.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are the instructions for feeding the corn and peas.

You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines the bird without hurting him and makes him easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat. 
If he is wrapped in towel he wont be able to struggle much.You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the bird’s crop empties until you know he is eating on his own. 
The crop is located right below the throat and fills up like a baloon when there is food in it. With the peas and corn, it will feel kind of lumpy.

Please email me your phone number and I will try to find a place for you to take the bird. Here's my email...
[email protected]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Photos .. Just In Case ..*

Nobody clicked on the second link ..




























Terry


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

thank you all for your helpful information and encouragement. 

including the video of how to feed the bird. 

i managed to get only four or five peas/corn into it. (i wrapped it in a towel.) it seemed increasingly upset so i stopped. 

should i ignore its protests and continue to force it? 

i guess i am not allowed to feed it safflower seeds this way, right? their size would seem to make them easier to feed. 

the bird continues to drink water (w/ salt+sugar) i occasionally offer it. it seems interested in the eyedropper and not afraid of it. 

if i stick its beak into the water it will have one drink but that's all. then it won't want me to repeat it. 

i have better luck with the eyedropper, dribbling water. 

i paid no attention to where i found it -- it was at night. but i'm eager to go back there and see if it might be under power lines or something. 

i'm in agreement the bird probably could use antibiotics. 

i'll hope to take it to a bird vet on monday. that will be quicker than ordering meds. 

it is not particularly weak; it put up a good resistance when i was trying to feed it. strong wings. 

and as i say, it must have been eating up until the time i found it. it continues to poop. 

how was it eating just 72 hours ago? what was it eating? it seems incapable of feeding itself now. what changed? 

maybe it is not old, as i thought. i have no idea, really. maybe it is just sick. 

i changed the paper in the kitchen cupboard and put down safflower seeds, just on the off chance it will be interested. before putting it away for the night. 

i have a piece of 2x2 board in there it perches on sometimes; i'd give it something smaller it could wrap it's toes around if i knew of something i could put in there. maybe a dead branch. 

i have too much else in my life to keep a bird so my hope would be that antibiotics make it well and i could take it back where i found it and release it. 

should i continue force feeding it and ignoring its protests? and 50 pieces, really? that would take a day, at the rate i was going. 

thank you again. i wish all people cared as much about animals as you people do.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Take it to a vet on Monday and it is not eating because of the eyes being really swollen and feed it about what you feel it is comfortable with (use your instinct here) it is better to underfeed it than overfeed it. It drinks it's water if you dip it into the bowl and this is good--offer it everytime you feed---and once in awhile drip some water down it beak ( the real danger here if it breathes it in could get Pnemonia (can't spell) if it goes down into its lungs--aspiration I think they call it) I think it needs some antibiotic too but wait one day as long as it is improving until you get advice on this and what kind. I don't think it has worms or canker and a vet will tell you this in one day and it might have some other problem and I do think it was starving to death and needed hydration which you did as well as kept it warm--so far you saved it---Monday you will get the view on it. The member here Charis gave you a real good offer to find someone in Michigan that will take care of the bird and do e-mail her or phone her because I promise you that she will do her darnest--I don't know her only from reading stuff on this pigeon -talk but she knows a lot about things and most of all loves birdies...Your doing really well and I wish that you could keep it because it is a rough life out there for our birdies---Maybe a gentle blot on the eyes with cold cloth wet and held for awhile would help it some to get the swollen down a bit--like if it were your eye--real gentle--until your able to see a vet...or maybe even warm--I don't know --but cold ice pack for a few minutes I would not think would hurt and at the same time don't chill the bird-keep it wrapped up and warm...c.hert


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Cuspre....you are doing a good job. Keep it up...even just 5 veggies/feeding is OK...just be sure you do 4-6 feedings in a day, then. 

Try to get 20 pieces minimum into him/day. (Again, you are correct...if it starts getting too dramatic...then stop. You don't wanna stress an injured pigeon too much....but you do gotta get 'enuff into him/her to keep him going....so keep with the balancing act).

The poops don't look horrible. I think the poor fella either got attacked or badly collided with something.....also possible that someone took a potshot at him...is there any sign of an entry/exit wound on his head or neck area ????

Important Q: do you think he can SEE at all ? The right eye looks like a goner to me. But does he open the left eye at all....or is it always closed ?

I understand that you may not have all the time to give to the pigeon due to other things in life....we can help you get it to the right place....but for the next day or so....basically his survival is in =your hands, so keep it up.

Please contact Charis....she has a very good archive of places all across the nation which cares for injured pigeons....hopefully she can find an appropriate one somewhere near you...which can even possibly place it in a home or loft, if need be.....

Thanks again for caring !


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, the bird doesn't need a perch like that. Pigeons prefer to perch on something flat. As far as the peas and corn, 4 or 5 is not enough even if you were to feed 4 or 5 times a day. If you hold the bird on your lap and against your body, then you open its beak with the thumb and index finger of both hands, it really isn't all that difficult. Put it in and push to the back of the throat. With the amount you are giving, you are barely keeping it from starving.
Those eyes look bad. Charis has offered to help you find someone to help, or maybe even someone who might be able to take the bird. If you cannot get food into him, then why not contact her. She is excellent at finding people to help, and you do need help with this. You said yourself that you don't really have time for a pigeon. Please take her up on her offer of help.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Jay, I think you and I tend to agree on about 99% of things 

I suggest 4 to 5 per feeding (and stick to that) _if the bird is stressing on the whole feeding method. _Cuspre thought he was getting a fair amount of resistance from his patient. You are correct in that....20 pieces a day is not gonna gain 'em any weight....but.....it's better than insisting on 30-40 pieces a day and having a weakened bird pass away in your arms. 

I have experienced, and heard enough stories of folks, trying to get the requisite food into the bird and it ending up very badly, that's all....

If 5 is what the bird will tolerate in a feeding.....then stop at 5 and come back later.

I do agree, at some point if there is any better facility in the vicinity, a handoff is a good idea, sooner better than later. The poor pidge has had it rough (up until finding Cuspre).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaye, I'm only saying this because an adult bird should be getting more like 40 to 50 pieces twice a day. 20 pieces just isn't enough. If he is struggling and stressing too much, it could just be in the way the bird is being held. Maybe put him in a towel or something to keep him from struggling. That might calm things down.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

A person trying to save a pigeon after a few feedings gets an instinct on how much the pigeon wants to eat---there is really no set number because situations are different the birds are different with different ailments and sometimes it might be 5 pieces and at other times it might be 15 pieces of something just so its 4 or 5 tiny feedings during the day and offere water at every feeding or Pedialyte (I like this) and it is better to underfeed at this stage then overfeed especially since the pigeon will most likely get professional help tomorrow and I just hope that our caregiver has some good instinct on this with our information that we are able to give and best of luck to Cuspre for dealing with this not ordinary thing that this person is doing and they have read the literature as well----I just pray it survives and survives well-----c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> Here are the instructions for feeding the corn and peas.
> 
> You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. *If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines the bird without hurting him and makes him easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat.
> If he is wrapped in towel he wont be able to struggle much.You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the bird’s crop empties until you know he is eating on his own. *
> ...


Here is Charis way of feeding, and I think that wrapping the bird would probably tend to keep him calmer.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

c.hert said:


> A person trying to save a pigeon after a few feedings gets an instinct on how much the pigeon wants to eat---there is really no set number because situations are different the birds are different with different ailments and sometimes it might be 5 pieces and at other times it might be 15 pieces of something just so its 4 or 5 tiny feedings during the day and offere water at every feeding or Pedialyte (I like this) and it is better to underfeed at this stage then overfeed especially since the pigeon will most likely get professional help tomorrow and I just hope that our caregiver has some good instinct on this with our information that we are able to give and best of luck to Cuspre for dealing with this not ordinary thing that this person is doing and they have read the literature as well----I just pray it survives and survives well-----c.hert


Well, some pigeons don't want to eat at all. Would you go along with that? He really can't be allowed to judge on how much he needs at this point. He needs a lot more in him. Also, the peas and corn would give him more fluid.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I do stand behind my suggestion to feed 30-40 pieces of corn and peas every time the crop empties or at least 2 times a day. This method is tried and true by me over the last 20+ years. I understand that it can be difficult for some to get the hang of feeding this way because there is the fear that the bird will be injured. It took me a while to get the hang of it too.

Cuspre...I did get your email. It had ended up in my junk file...glad I looked. I did leave you a message with my phone number. I have left a message for one of our members in Michigan and it could be that she can help. Until I hear from her though, I will start looking for a rehabber for you in the morning and call you when I have a contact.
In the mean time, you are welcome to call me with any concerns or questions... sometimes that's easier. Most important is helping the bird. Thank you for all you have done.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thats a real nice message to Cuspre---Thanks from all of us...Charis.......c.hert


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

hello again, and thank you all again for all your good input. 

after reading the most recent posts i realized i was not feeding the bird near enough and tonight it has gone to bed with 45 pieces of corn in its craw. gullet. whatever. 

turned out it was much easier for me to do without a towel. i just sat and cradled it in my lap against my belly and had much more control. 

biggest concern was my thumb kept rubbing the poor creature's eye. 

but once i got the hang of it, it went pretty fast.

i used canned corn, no salt added. please don't tell me i've killed the bird by doing that. 

the bird protested some and relented some. maybe it figured out i was trying to help it. i don't know. 

the bird still seems strong. 

i don't think the eyes are beyond hope. they appear briefly when i first encounter the bird after time away. 

i think the lids are just inflamed. a symptom of whatever is ailing the bird. surely a virus of some kind. 

i'm optimistic antibiotics will help. 

thank you charis for your call and i apologize it's difficult for me to find time during normal hours to talk. but i would like to pass the bird along to someone who could care for it. so do let me know. 

i went back to where i found the bird in the snow. there are no overhead obstacles to speak of. 

interesting to hear that it is possibly kinder to keep such a bird in captivity than to release it. or did i misunderstand that? 

i mean, presuming it returns to health. is it not kinder to release a healthy bird?

interesting also about no need for a branch-like perch. but i thought maybe that was the case, given that one often sees pigeons on flat surfaces. 

once i was walking with a brazilian friend in amsterdam and we approached a city square full of people and pigeons, where tourists would hold seed and just be covered by hungry birds. 

"how do you say 'pigeon' in portuguese?' i ask, waving my arm at the scene in front of us. 

"eh?" she asked. 

"all these," i said, waving my arm again. "what are they called?"

'pedeste,' she said. 

so that's what i thought pigeons were called in portuguese, until thinking about it one day i realized she thought i meant the *people* in the square. pedeste = pedestrians i guess. (don't ask me what a pigeon is called in portuguese.)

another time outside a post office (in the usa) i met a man who had just mailed some pigeons. i had to ask him about it. he told a fascinating story of a prize bird, a champion, that he had released into a storm and it had never returned home. he would look into the sky daily hoping that bird came back. 

do you love your birds? i asked him. 

he said he did and knew them all very well, though he had many. but he didn't have names for them. the lost prize pigeon went by something like Z452B6, that's all. 

i didn't understand how somebody could love animals but not give them names. imagine calling your daughter 258DQ. 

ok that's it for now. thank you again.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Looks really good and your doing good with your bird. Try to buy a pigeon mix now with different type of seeds from a feed store: Corn,barley.millet,safflower.wheat, etc etc--they mix it up for pigeons and call it a pigeon mix--bird racing people use it---this would be very good for your bird--and the bird might very well eat it on its own if it could see it and it would be a lot easier on you.. Your writing is interesting as well..Keep up the good work....c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You have some great resources in your area...actually, I'm quite impressed.

Country Garden Veterinary Clinic does have a wildlife fund and so you can take the Pigeon there. The number is...517-783-5851

The other option is ...Crossroads Animal Hospital ...517-784-1111
They do not have a wildlife fund and the cost of exam is $50.. 
In addition, I emailed you the email address of our member, at her request, that may be able to help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You're doing great Cuspre. Thanks for all that you are doing for this guy. As for you question about release, if you help an adult bird to heal, and he is again a healthy bird able to survive on his own in the wild, then releasing him is of course, the best option. Sometimes birds have injuries that would cause them not to be releasable, such as a wing which doesn't heal well enough for the bird to fly well again, or something like that. All depends. But if it is able to be brought back to health where it is able to survive, releasing is much better. It should be able to live it's life free as it was meant to. 
I'm glad you were able to get the needed food into him. It's just trial and error until we find out the best approach. Again, you're doing a great job. Glad you were able to connect with Charis. She'll be a great help.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

It's the eyes which would govern her\his releasability - if there are great resources in your area in Michigan they can help you w\ this assessment. Final word I will post on feeding subject (and I feel I must reply lest other folks stumble upon ths post and interpret the absolute NECESSITY to give X amount of pieces\day). Jay - you have created 'straw man' arguments to support what I feel in some cases can be a reckless suggestion - and Charis - you know you are tops in my book 366 days\year - but - every situation requires it's own assessment - and I have seen and heard of a number of birds die because of well-meanng folks just trying to get all that food down the bird.... I think I stated very very clearly above - but l will say once more in a bit more of a straightforward manner - *when it is a choice between possibly overstressing (killing) the already compromised bird by insisting it get the requisite # of morsels (at the urging of people online who have never even seen the actual bird) - and feeding LESS than what is suggested & stopping when he\she seems to have had enough of the whole affair (in order to get some nourishment into a weak or hurt animal) - you go with the latter 100% of the time *and build the bird up over several days to the requisite amount. 20-25 pcs\day for a pigeon who has not eaten in a few days is a hecka improvement & will provide a good amt of sustenance as it stabilizes during those critical first few days. (Glad it worked out for you Cuspre - end of digression for me- keep up the excellent work and post back w\ updates !)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye...you are tops in my book too. Still...I disagree with you and I'm going to tell you why from recent experience.

Many know I gave most of my birds to a dear friend in Washington state. On January 8th, I received a call from her that one of the birds was ill. She was relieved that she had caught the problem in time. She brought the bird inside, put him on a heating pad and hydrated him. The suspicion was canker and so the bird was treated for canker with metronidazole. 
The bird started to vomit seed and so she decided to hand feed. Popping the corn and peas was difficult for her and so she managed to get 20-30 pieces of corn and peas a day down the bird's throat.
On the 16th, the bird was brought to me. I met her just off the freeway and I took one look and knew the bird was critical. I went directly to Deb's clinic and she examined the him...did a fecal float and a gram stain. There was nothing out of the ordinary except the bird was weak and thin. He had lost 100 grams in 1 week.
Deb kept the bird and he died the next day even though he was given supportive care for starvation. The next day she preformed a necropsy. Cause of death...starvation.

I highly suspect he was never sick at all. When he was found resting on the heater, which they love to do on a cold night, he was thought to be ill. The metronidazole made him vomit and the rest, with not enough food, spiraled out of control ...organs shutting doan and finally death.

This bird, in particular is already conpromised and week. Time is running out for him. The last thing he needs is not enough food and hydration.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are two more resources for you...
Mayanne [rehabber for Dove and Pigeons]...734-878-0069
Nature Center...517-548-5530

Wioth all these resources, you should have no trouble getting the help needed for this Pigeon.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> Jaye...you are tops in my book too. Still...I disagree with you and I'm going to tell you why from recent experience.
> 
> Many know I gave most of my birds to a dear friend in Washington state. On January 8th, I received a call from her that one of the birds was ill. She was relieved that she had caught the problem in time. She brought the bird inside, put him on a heating pad and hydrated him. The suspicion was canker and so the bird was treated for canker with metronidazole.
> The bird started to vomit seed and so she decided to hand feed. Popping the corn and peas was difficult for her and so she managed to get 20-30 pieces of corn and peas a day down the bird's throat.
> ...



Jaye--I have quoted Charis' comment, because we are trying to say something here. It isn't about egos here. It's about helping an already compromised bird. I understand what you are saying, but the fact still remains that you have to get an amount of food into the bird. Often times, it isn't that the bird is being over stressed, but that the rescuer has to learn the technique to feeding him. And there are many people who come here for help who don't have that "animal sense", if you want to call it, to know the difference. It's often hard to feed an injured bird without some experience, which the poor rescuer is getting at the time of trying to help the bird. That can be very hard. But by trying different techniques until you find one that works, you can often find a way to work with the bird. I'm not saying that you HAVE to give 50 pieces of peas or corn at each feeding. I'm saying that 20 to 25 a day is not nearly enough. Of course you could start at fewer and work up, but not that fewer. I also don't think that many people are in a position to decide how much the bird can be pushed. If they can get 5 pieces in, then they can do more once they learn how to handle the bird. Better to learn a good technique than to starve the poor thing.


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

i took the bird monday to a local vet clinic charis generously spent her time tracking down for me, where i had two options. one was to pay for a regular visit and the other was to turn the bird over to them for rehabilitation and release if possible. but once i gave up custody i figured i could not get it back, so until i knew more i decided to opt for a regular office visit. 

it turns out to be a very decent place, from what i can tell. they take in virtually any wildlife except raccoons -- too many diseases -- and do what they can to help, euthanize if they are unable to bring the animal to health. how do they pay for this? out of a "wildlife fund." who funds the "wildlife fund?" you do, by donation, when you bring in a sick or injured animal. or, if you prefer, you pay nothing. 

the economics of this puzzled me and i told them so; the only explanation they gave was well, you have to have an interest in doing this. (perhaps we might call it simply a 'big heart,' for search as i might for a devious alterior motive, i found none.)

anyway, who was i to question good fortune? 

i hope the bird is a male because the vet was very pretty. and also quite capable, from what i could tell. she said the bird was a little skimpy on breastmeat (my translation) indicating it had had some food issues for a while. she said possibilities with a pigeon, which i'm sure you all know, is that in its peckings at all things to eat it had ingested poisonous metal, such as lead (my interpretation), which would involve xrays and perhaps surgery. 

but ultimately she diagnosed an upper respiratory infection. she cleaned the bird eyes with fluid (showed me a big hunk of gunk she removed from one) and gave it a shot of baytril. sent it home with two bottles of meds: baytril (tabs crushed in liquid) and nystatin (not sure if i've spelled it right) against fungus. she suggested (as has been suggested in this forum) that i get some pigeon feed to put with the bird in case it decides to eat on its own.

the bird weighs 283 grams, i think she said. 

she noticed the bird was puffed up and suggested i put a light in the area where i'm keeping it, for warmth. i have done so and have concluded i was not giving the bird enough heat. inside the kitchen cabinet is probably colder, perhaps considerably so, than out here in the rest of the house. also i noticed the bird standing on one foot, and a check on the web told me what others surely know, that it was keeping one foot up for warmth. 

the bill came to $52, which was the standard $35 office visit plus $12 in meds, and i thought this overall quite reasonable. some vets charge $35 for an office visit fee and somehow you wind up paying more than $100. but as i said, the hearts at this clinic seemed to be in the right place.

i had a straight-up discussion about the possibilities. what if, for example, the bird turned out blind and could not be released into the wild? would she return it to my custody? 

if it were a cardinal, she said, the law would prohibit her from doing so. but she said the law treats pigeons differently, that they can be returned to the bringer-inner. if i understood it right. 

even so, we both noted the eyes are both there, and whole, in this bird, and hopefully blindness won't be an issue. 

i feel this is a good place, as i've said, and i told the vet i'd probably be bringing the bird in tuesday and giving it up to them. which i plan to do. she said they will feed it with a tube and said they would keep me in the loop if i cared to be. i said i did care to be. 

so that's the plan, and i thank you all again, particularly charis, who went out of her way to find resources for me, including this very good one.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You are very welcome. They seemed pretty great when I talked to them. I appreciate the pictures and the up date.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Very very nice update and very well wrote--thank you so much Cuspre---and I really hope that you keep the pigeon because after the initial sickness and health problems are over all it takes is a bowl of pigeon mix and fresh water every day with little treats as well and they really become a friend of yours and its a pretty pigeon as well. I really think that the eyes will become a no issue and come back on line...You are just wonderful Thank You..My thread is called Mr. Al's visit to the surgeon and it is getting very long and today I will add a new chapter to continue with...Thank you so much. c.hert


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

i went yesterday to a local feed store where the owner opened a 40-lb bag of pigeon feed to sell me a pound of it; where do you find service like that anymore?

i brought it home and put a dish of it in front of the pigeon, who, not surprisingly, did nothing. 

i wanted to keep the bird but knew it was not for the best. i did not have the time to nurse it back to health, and even if it were healthy, i am already streched thin caring for many other animals of the feline species, some of them terminally ill. i live alone and it is like a second job. it wears me out. 

i have heard that if you want a loving, loyal pet, you can't do better than a pigeon, and i'd have loved to have discovered this for myself. so it was with a heavy heart that i took the pigeon, and the bag of feed, to the vet/rehab clinic where i gave over the bird. i told them if there was anything i could do to help, please tell me, and i donated $20 the wildlife fund. hardly adequate payment for rehabbing a bird but it was something. 

the kind receptionist cradled the bird and talked to it and put it in an incubator. 

i hope it can recover. for the whole time i had it it showed no interest in food, and as i've said, the vet said it was a skinny bird anyway. maybe it does have a piece of lead in it or something. 

if i hear back from the vet i'll post an update but i may not. c. hert thank you for your kind posts.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well - if all folks showed as much care and concern as you did this world would be a better place. Thanks for doing what you can for your little friend and hopefully the capable hands of the vet will help this pigeon. If they get him healthy but determine he cannot be released - would they contact you again do you think ?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye said:


> Well - if all folks showed as much care and concern as you did this world would be a better place. Thanks for doing what you can for your little friend and hopefully the capable hands of the vet will help this pigeon. *If they get him healthy but determine he cannot be released - would they contact you again do you think *?



She said in an earlier post that they said they will.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Cuspre: You were just wonderful in every aspect of really helping this pigeon. That pigeon will survive because of you and it takes a lot of time to bring an animal,bird or anything back to normal health once they are down and those people will take care of it to the best of their ability and our Charis I am sure will make sure---Thank you for a better outlook on life because you made that possible for me---Spirits Bless. c.hert


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

I hope the bird recovers. Please tell us if they call you!
Where are you from?


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## cuspre (Feb 13, 2010)

i called the clinic today and was happy to hear the bird is doing well, still in an incubator. they have fed it with a tube but it also is eating "some" on its own. this is definitely an improvement, from my perspective. it would eat nothing for me voluntarily, as you know. they have been giving it eyedrops and say the eyes are looking good. what a good place that would go this distance for no pay! i thank God for them. 

and for charis who found this clinic, and for you others who gave advice and support. what a thing the internet is.

pawbla, i am from michigan in usa. we are a national leader in unemployment and home foreclosure.


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

That's great. I hope the bird continues to get better.


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