# why does my pigeons head look like this? (pix)



## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

This is our bird Arnie. We dont know if its a hen or a cock, but we just say he. He's always been an odd bird. He used to do a weird head bobbing thing and has more skin around his eyes than the others. He's always been SLIGHTLY easier to catch than other birds. Now his feathers on top of his head are looking quite tattered. Hes not super skinny, he eats well. He is not paired up with any other bird. His feathers have looked this way for a little while. Its not an immediate change, but within the last month or 2 I'd guess.

Maybe some others can ask questions I can't think to answer. I'd really like to figure out the mystery of Arnie. He just doesn't look right.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/paranoid-paratyphoid-or-other-66334.html
Here's another thread from back in January. Scroll down to see pix of what he looked like back then.

Could this just be other birds picking on him? Could it be that since I don't have any other birds of the opposite gender (at least I don't think I do) that maybe he's trying to get too close to "another mans woman" for lack of better term lol


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It could be he is being pecked on.
Another option would be feather mites. 

Reti


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Feather mites crossed my mind too. I didn't see any on my birds, but I just dusted them may 12th to be safe.

Is there any type of illness or disease that could cause loss of feathers? Maybe I should look into that. I'm glad to see you don't find it too alarming though, cause its had me worried.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*You don't necessarily see mites, they can be hidden. Not sure if the dust would be that effective. I would use a topical like Scatt where you actually put a few drops on the skin as it works in blood stream and kills blood sucking mites. Canker, nutritional deficiencies can cause patchy feathering, ear mites can cause balance problems. *


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

When I first got my birds they were filthy! I mean totally covered with mites.... so I have seen them... but I suppose I wouldn't if there weren't so many. The dust worked like a charm when I first got them. Maybe I'll dust one more time to be sure.

Oh, and I bought a different multivitamin yesterday. It sounded like good stuff. Its called natural vitamineral. In case anyone heard of it. Its supposed to be given in a bowl or mixed in with grit and they can eat it to their hearts content. It says their bodies know how much to eat.

With the head bobbing, members decided it was an inquisitive head Bob after I posted a video. His balance wasn't affected. He doesn't do it so much any more tho ??

I don't see canker. I've checked him a few times cause he just wierds me out. But I'm thinking I might treat my birds as a precaution anyway.

I don't really believe in giving meds unless you know something is wrong, but I don't think it would hurt this time cause I just can't figure this guy out. So my plan is to dust them one more time and worm them, then maybe a week later give them some canker med.

Is that an OK plan? To dust while working then skip a week and do canker med?

I think my birds are going to be predisposed to getting sick because of where they came from. The original owner didn't give them any supplements or meds. The sick parents were raising sick babies and he let them breed Willy nilly in a filty loft where poo was about 4-6 inches thick in some spots. He had roughly 80-100 birds in a loft fit for maybe 25-30. Oh, and not that it has anything to do with it, but he used his birds as HAWK FOOD! I just got the birds because I wanted them, but after I got to his house, I realized i was actually rescuing them.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Sorry to hear the terrible condition these birds were in. You saved them. I hope you didn't have to pay for them. They may not necessarily be predisposed to sickness, and with alot of tender care and some nutrition, sunshine and bathing they should do well.

I would still suspect some type of blood sucking mite. I had a bird come in with bald spots around the head and I couldn't see anything, until I used Scatt, feathers reappeared after several weeks. 

I don't believe in meds either, but if canker is suspected, we do treat as it spreads quickly and kills and it is a simple remedy and not too invasive. There is nothing holistic that can touch it. 

You can treat with topical and canker at same time, unless the bird is easily stressed. If you are going to use the dust around its eyes, be very careful not to get into eyes, nostrils or down throat. *


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Well, I did pay for them. But only $15 for 20 birds. It didn't bother me a bit to get them out of there, I just wish I had room to take more!

They get probiotics on their food every day and vitamins/minerals, which I hope will keep them healthy.

I will definitely pick up some scatt if I don't see improvement in a couple weeks.

I currently have 2 babies (thought the hubby switched the eggs out, he thought I switched them out and tah-dahh now we have 2 babies lol). Anyway, should I wait to dust, worm, and do canker med until they are weaned? They are 2 weeks old now.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*If those babies are healthy and show no sign of mites/worms/parasites, let them be.

*


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

I would but the wormer and canker med goes in the water


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would treat for mites as treesa has said just in case. It seems a bit early for the molt around the head which happens every year to my birds at the end of summer. what kind of mite Im not sure. lice are noticeable as long specks on the feathers usually on the wings or under..around the head there where he seems irritated makes me think of a mite of some kind. or a feather disease. this link may be of some help.

http://www.pigeoninflight.com/index.php/external-parasites-of-pigeons


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could it be something like scaly mite? They burrow under the skin, and can cause lots of problems. I would get the scat. It will work for that, and others.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you spirit. It seems weird that he's the only one affected, but I'm not going to rule it out either, but I'm keeping possible aggression on the table as well. I have a pair who absolutely refuse to nest anywhere but the ground, so they could be the culprits too, and I have seen them pick on him before. Im going to dust again to be safe


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Hmmm, well couldn't hurt to use scat instead of dust. Its not injectable is it? Just drops like for a dog?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I put three drops on the skin under the feathering near rump.*


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Question... it says its for scaly face and air sac mites, does it treat all types of mites or just those? Should I still dust for feather mites?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Squeaker said:


> Question... it says its for scaly face and air sac mites, does it treat all types of mites or just those? Should I still dust for feather mites?


*It goes in the bloodstream so it takes care of all blood sucking mites. *


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Okie doke, its been ordered  its good to have even if it is or isn't the problem. I can still use my dust around the loft tho.

When we expand our loft, which will be fairly soon, we plan on making a raised floor so we can scrape the floor and it will just drop below. This way they'll never be standing on poo. We keep our loft fairly clean, but due to a lack of planning (and inexperience) when we built the loft, we have a dirt floor with a layer of sand.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Dirt floors are very bad for pigeons inside a loft. The raised floor is best. *


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Yeah, we definitely made mistakes when building the loft :/ hence why we need to expand and build the raised floor. I'm kicking myself now, but you learn by making mistakes.

Do I have to worry about mites crawling up into the loft if I have a raised floor where the poo gets scraped down into? Of course we will clean it from time to time, and scrape the floor regularly, but we won't be removing the floor like once a week or anything. How high should I build the raised floor?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

We all make mistakes when building our first loft. Always something that we would change. I think a solid floor is really better than a floor that you scrape and it falls through, unless you are going to clean that out weekly. It's easy to scrape a floor and put it all into a dustpan and get rid of it, or better yet, start a compost pile. Pigeon droppings are great in the compost.

Also, if it is feather mites, they don't suck the blood, so you would have to spray or dust for them.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Okay, I'll dust too since we still aren't positive on what's going on here.

An old guy I live near has a raised floor and his birds are super healthy. He wins a lot of races and even sold a squab for $6,000.... so I wouldn't think a raised floor would be all bad. BUT it would be less work to build it and I'll bring it up to the hubby. He's pretty set on a raised floor, and hes my master builder. So in the end, what he says goes unless I can give him good reasons


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How will you clean under it?


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> How will you clean under it?


That's what I'm concerned about, but the guy down the street has his loft a few feet off the ground and doesn't have any problems. In the end its up to my hubby, but I really don't want the raised floor.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Will the whole loft be raised, so that he can get under it?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*
It is healthier for the birds if you build a solid floor of plywood so you can scrape it out and keep it clean on a regular basis. It is not good to have a raised floor if it is wire and you are unable to clean under it.*


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

He wants to do a raised wood plank floor.... I am against it and I'm putting up a big fuss over it. He just sees that our neighbor has his that way, and since we are new and the other guy has kept pigeons for 50+ years, he thinks he's like the pigeon god lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well if the droppings will fall through on whatever floor he builds, you need a way of cleaning them out. Maybe we aren't understanding what you are saying.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. In the past I had birds in the house and i noticed that they were scraping the tops of their heads on the ceiling and they look similar like your third picture from the top front view of head.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

OK I just got my Scatt mite treatment in the mail. Now I've got some questions.

1) I planned on treating the birds with scatt about a week after doing a routine worming on my birds. Problem is: I use moxidectin wormer and scatt says on the front of the bottle "active constituent - moxidectin". Am I going to over medicate my birds? If so, how long should I wait?

2) how much does an average homer weigh? It says 2 drops for birds 30-100grams. I know they're more than that, but are they like 200? 300? 400?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. 439.4176grams-510.291grams for males, 396.893grams-439.4176grams for females is not good enough for me because I use my own scale.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have heard that you can just use the 2 drops on a pigeon, and it works. Impossible to know what it weighs without weighing it on a gram scale.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Another member said to use 3 drops, but it might be best to err on the side of caution and use 2.


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