# Preventative hysterectomy/sterilization for pet hen



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

I just adopted a rescued pigeon from a close friend who could no longer care for her. She has been a free-flying, solitary house pigeon since her rescue last summer. We had all thought that she was male, since she cooed and did elaborate courtship displays. However, two days ago, she laid her first egg. She's sitting on it now, and looking like she will lay another soon. 

In the past, we had a female cockatiel who died from egg binding. It seems that pigeons are less likely to suffer that fate, but nonetheless, I seriously doubt that they enjoy a quality of life from having to lay eggs every month and sit on them (or artificial substitutes), getting no exercise, etc. I have read the case histories on this forum from Reti and others who have had hens that underwent surgical procedures, and I want to consider the pros and cons of a pre-emptive operation for our hen--a hysterectomy, oophorectomy (ovary removal), or both. If anyone can help me with what the outcome might be, please let me know. Any information would be helpful. I'm mainly concerned about how surgical sterilization would affect her overall health. We love her very much and want what's best for her health, happiness and longevity.

This hen is less than two years old, perfectly healthy but very bonded to humans, does not have any interest in other birds. We live in a small apartment which is plenty big for her and us, since she is free-flying (though kept in a huge cage at night and when we are gone), but getting her a mate and raising babies would be irresponsible and out of the question. 

If anyone has input, please post or send a pm. Thanks so much.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Klaw,

thank you for adopting this sweet pigeon. I am sure he will be happy at your place.

Now oophorectomy is not done in pigeons, they only do salpingohysterectomies.
I've never heard of it being done as a prevention, but I guess if you pay the fee some vets will do anything. 
The reason my Whitney had it done was she was laying shelless eggs. It had something to do with the shell forming gland in her uterus. She also had egg peritonitis. But, she still thinks she will have an egg. All her hormones are there, maybe less than before, but she loves it when I give her an egg to sit on. Pigeons are wired that way, they just enjoy sitting on eggs. Whitney knows very well those aren't her eggs, but she sits the full three weeks anyways. 
A major complication for having done a hysterectomy on her is, besides the surgery and anesthesia risk, they can still form eggs inside their abdomen and that can kill her if not rushed to the clinic and have emergency surgery. I don't think all those risks outweight the benefits.

What you can do is, talk to a vet, there is an injection given every three months called Lupron, it is a birth control, and your bird won't lay eggs. Of course they can fail sometimes, but most likely not. I've seem a couple of pigeons on Lupron and they are doing fine. It is more routinely done in parrots.

Reti


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Thank you Reti. I did read about Whitney's case in the archives, and also Pidgey's hen, Winter: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10686

I didn't realize that even with a salpingohysterectomy, the hen could still potentially form an egg or part of an egg in her abdomen. If that is indeed the case, then the risk wouldn't be worth it. I thought that such preventative surgeries were done often in parrots, and were relatively risk-free and without long-term side effects. Thanks for your help.

Kathy


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Here's a picture of our girl. I guess she's a bald-headed show roller, from what I've been able to find out online. Extremely sweet and affectionate.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

In pigeons, the ovaries are so close to a major artery that the slightest nick will spell the end of the bird on the table so that's a very risky deal. The hormonal balance does change with the removal of the rest of the oviduct and Winter is still doing fine but for myself, I wouldn't treat it as an elective surgery. There also may be some effects like the equivalent of osteoporosis in us that are not known or documented in other species. Given that all the other diseases that they get that are common to us usually present a similar pathology, it's hard for me to imagine that such a surgery wouldn't be a detriment long term. So, I'd only do it if the bird were in imminent danger. If you read deeply into Lupron shots, which are also used in people, there is a similar long term effect. In essence, if the bird is going to be kept into its geriatric years, then it's best not to tamper with the working parts unless necessary.

Pidgey


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Thank you Pidgey, I was really hoping to hear from you on this. Your reply makes a lot of sense, thanks so much. I guess we will just keep her happy and well supplemented to make sure she isn't lacking in any nutrient, and since we know so well the signs of egg-binding, we'll be prepared to take action if anything begins to seem wrong. We certainly do want to keep her happy and healthy, into her geriatric years. Thanks again.

Kathy


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to pigeon talk,

What a darling bird!

I have encountered the problem with older hens, when the "object of their affection" is always around. 

Besides the addition of calcium and other nutrients.( Make sure the calcium has vitamin D and other minerals that allow it to absorb properly) .Have you thought about changing her diet or giving her dummy eggs?

If you can get her diet down to under 10% protein that will help her lose her interest in breeding, as increase in protein will stimulate the sex drive.

You can also add some barley to get the protein percentage down.

Also, try putting her on dummy eggs and see if you can keep her interest in them for at least 18 days, some of my hens stay interested longer.

The injection of Lupron, should also be considered, but lastly.


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Thank you Treesa, it's a great forum and I'm happy to have become a member. I was just looking at your photos on your link, and our girl looks exactly like your Arthur. What a sweetie, and Ashley is beautiful too.

We are going to get some dummy eggs and try that for sure. Thanks for the protein advice, I'll drop that percentage a bit. We're supplementing calcium and adding a bit of olive oil to her seeds right now to help her with passing this second egg that is clearly in the works.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

She is a very pretty and sweet bird, Klaw. Thanks for sharing the pic.

Reti


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi and welcome to Pigeon Talk, you have a darling little pigeon there, really sweet. Just a couple of things I wanted to mention. If she does lay, let her 
sit on her own eggs for as long as she wants....that way she won't start up another cycle of egg laying. Also, if an indoor bird, make sure the vitamin supplements contain D-3. 

fp


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

KLaw said:


> I was just looking at your photos on your link, and our girl looks exactly like your Arthur. What a sweetie, and Ashley is beautiful too.


Hi Klaw,

I just love my little rollers, they are so loveable and wonderfully tame. They are so easy to pick up and administer vitamins to. Yours looks about as friendly as mine, can't help but love them!


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Update! Our lovely new hen has laid her two eggs and has been sitting on them for six days now, and she's such a good girl. She picked a spot under my computer table as her nest, and she's doing just great. I want to thank everyone who helped me through the initial panic of finding out that she was a hen, and the emotional trauma that that brought up for me. My husband and I had a cockatiel hen who died of egg binding, and we were so devastated by that, we vowed never again to allow a female bird go through that. But maybe that is why this precious pigeon came into our lives, to help us work through that, and to do everything right this time so that no egg-binding would happen. She's getting top-notch seed and pellets and vitamin supplements, with D3, and lots of calcium in several forms. She had no trouble with the second egg, and she seems healthy and very happy. She comes out for a stretch and a flight and some food about once every hour or two during the day, and she'll come sit on my shoulder, although she doesn't want any affection just yet. But today, she gave me kisses on my face for the first time since the eggs were laid. 

She was rescued last summer by a dear friend of mine, who found her nearly drowned in her swimming pool. The poor thing had been hit by a hawk, and had a broken wing and serious puncture wounds. She was treated and rehabilitated outdoors, but she made the choice on her own to come and live in the house, refusing to go back outside after that. My friend recently had a domestic crisis and could no longer care for her, so my husband and I were happy to give her a permanent home. Her name is Waldo (named for "The Great Waldo Pepper" because she's a roller), and that's because we all thought she was male for the longest time after she was rescued. She performed such vigorous courting and cooing, we never thought she could be a hen, but there's no doubt now! I'll attach a picture of her adding some assorted "found elements" to her little nest. She's having a lot of fun scavenging around the apartment for twist-ties and scraps of paper, which she likes much better than the shredded paper that I set out for her!

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who helped me through this, and I'm very happy to be part of the forum. You are all wonderful.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hope you don't mind .. here's a lightened up version of lovely Waldo in her nest.

Terry


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kathy, 

I'm glad everything worked out for you and your lovely Waldo She's a beautiful bird and sounds like such a pleasure to keep. 

Normal, healthy pigeons don't often have trouble with egg binding issues as you know. Cockatiels are more prone to this, in part because they lay many more eggs per clutch and rounds overall. Smaller birds tend to have more difficulties as well.

You've been given great advice and I hope it eases your mind now. I wouldn't elect surgery for my pigeons either, nor would I take them for lupron shots to prevent them from laying. To me, it's all too risky and I would rather they do what they were meant to do. I'm lucky though, I've got a hen who doesn't lay very often and also sometimes sits on "invisible" eggs to amuse herself


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Kathy - yep, you have been bitten by the pigeon lovebug. I am so happy Waldo has found a loving home with you. Pigeons are just the greatest little fellows. Waldo is beautiful.

The egg laying always worries me. We lost our pet cockatiel about 4 months ago to possibly egg binding and I have sworn I will never get another female cockatiel - probably famous last words. But, as far as pigeons go, I think you can easier tell when they are in trouble than with cockatiels. We have had one hen that had to be rushed to the vet because she couldn't pass the egg but the vet just popped it right out. As long as you know what to look for you shouldn't have any problem.

And, welcome to the forum.

Maggie


----------



## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

Thank you Brad and Maggie, and thank you Terry for the improved photo! Much better. Yes, it's true pigeon love in this house. I am so relieved to know that egg binding isn't quite as much of an issue. And boy, do I ever know the signs now. That was the most painful lesson of my life, but our little 'tiel won't have died in vain. Though I must say, I would be delighted if Waldo would learn to sit on "invisible eggs" like Brad's hen, instead of laying her own. But whatever she decides, will be fine. I'll make sure of that.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

KLaw said:


> Yes, it's true pigeon love in this house. I am so relieved to know that egg binding isn't quite as much of an issue. And boy, do I ever know the signs now.



Hi Kathy,

I'm glad to hear she layed the second egg and all is well.

Just a few reminders: Make sure she has access to a bath whenever she is going to lay, as moisture helps.

Keep her sitting on the dummies as long as possible.

You already know about the nutrition, as far as calcium and other nutrients goes.

Give her just enough to eat that she doesn't fill up and get too heavy as she gets older, and excercise is always a big plus.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great news.
She sounds like a real sweetheart. Love her nest.

Reti


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

KLaw said:


> Here's a picture of our girl. I guess she's a bald-headed show roller, from what I've been able to find out online. Extremely sweet and affectionate.


What a beautifully coy expression! Reminds me of Audrey Hepburn's early days (My Fair Lady).


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> ....
> Keep her sitting on the dummies as long as possible.
> ...



Hi Treesa,

Just curious, in the case of solitary or 'paired' hens, when they lay their eggs, and we know that they won't hatch, why would we need to exchange for dummies? It seems that their own eggs are just so delicate and suited for them to sit on as opposed to the larger wooden eggs. Is there a bacteria issue or some other issue that is in play here because they aren't fertilized?

fp


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Treesa,
> Just curious, in the case of solitary or 'paired' hens, when they lay their eggs, and we know that they won't hatch, why would we need to exchange for dummies? It seems that their own eggs are just so delicate and suited for them to sit on as opposed to the larger wooden eggs. Is there a bacteria issue or some other issue that is in play here because they aren't fertilized?
> fp




Hi fp,

It is just a fact that I replace all eggs with dummies because of possible bacteria being that I live in a hot climate, and that could cause a stink, because my mated hens will sit eggs for 18 days or more, some of them anyway. Also, should they accidently get thrown out of the nest, as they do after a time they lose interest, it is a lot less mess to clean up, also for my unmated hens who have fallen for an already mated male.. 

However, I think Reti boils hers for her birds, which is another option, if they don't kick them out.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi fp,
> 
> It is just a fact that I replace all eggs with dummies because of possible bacteria being that I live in a hot climate, and that could cause a stink, because my mated hens will sit eggs for 18 days or more, some of them anyway. Also, should they accidently get thrown out of the nest, as they do after a time they lose interest, it is a lot less mess to clean up, also for my unmated hens who have fallen for an already mated male..
> 
> However, I think Reti boils hers for her birds, which is another option, if they don't kick them out.


Thanks for the clarification!

fp


----------

