# Rescue attempt



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi all -- 

I ended up with a new rescue today -- though I have my doubts whether this one will make it, at least I am going to give it a try. 

I found a little checker (hen, I think, and she appears pretty young) lying on her back at the subway station, beak breathing and unable to turn over. She had a bit of discharge around her beak opening -- and her legs appear mostly paralyzed. 

She doesn't have any obvious injuries, though she had clearly taken a fall.... she does appear to have a nasty respiratory infection (gasping, a bit of gurgling in her breathing, outside of beak a bit blue.) The rest of her flock was there, and appeared to be fine, so I am pretty much ruling out poison as a likely cause. 

I've got her at home and quarantined.... gave her Baytril immediately (it's all I had on hand) as well as Spartrix. She doesn't have any obvious canker in her beak, at least. 

She is actually a bit improved already, a few hours after the first Baytril... so that's hopeful. Whatever the infection is, it seems to be in her central nervous system, though...  She is doing a little bit of PMV-ish head movement, but it is hard to tell if maybe she's just struggling to try to stand...

I have no idea what I am actually dealing with... Paratyphoid? Chlamydia? PMV and a bacterial infection? Something else again? Whatever it is, it's nasty. If we make it past the brink of death, I'll try to get a better diagnostic handle on this one, and streamline the meds... but for now, the Baytril does seem to be making a difference. 

She isn't showing any interest in water or food, I think I may crop-administer some electrolyte solution, and then move to some dilute Kaytee formula tomorrow. I was hoping she'd drink on her own so we could avoid doing the crop tube... poor little thing is scared enough as it is... but it looks like that isn't happening.

Anyhow... guess I just want you folks to think good thoughts for my new little friend, and wish me luck with this one. If she does recover, I fear there may be lasting CNS damage... but I suppose one more special-needs bird is always welcome around here.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I decided to go ahead and do some very dilute Kaytee this evening -- and a second Baytril... figure a loading dose is probably a good idea with the severity of the illness, whatever it may be.

She can hold her head up a bit, and isn't gasping nearly so badly as earlier -- took the tube feeding just fine, and even protested a little bit when I opened her beak-- and then pretty much immediately went back to sleep. She moved around a bit earlier, and there was a tiny poop-attempt, which was mostly just urates.

I've got her propped up in a little fleecy blanket inside a carrier... that is keeping her upright, in any case. 

This is one of those awful situations where I am trying hard not to get emotionally involved, since the potential for losing her is so great at the moment. 

No matter how meticulously I quarantine, it always terrifies me to bring in a bird this sick... but so far, it's always been okay.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I don't have any advice to add to what you're already doing but just wanted to wish you well as it tugs at your heart to see a bird in such a bad way.
I guess all you can do ATM is keep hydrated and warm with just enough food to keep starvation at bay as their systems are very slow from being this ill.

I'm sure you'll get some good experienced input so keeping fingers crossed for you.

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks Janet -- little one is still with us this morning -- she seems a tiny bit more alert.

I'll keep doing what I'm doing -- but I am encouraged she's made it this far. I had my doubts that she'd survive till morning. 

Thankfully she isn't emaciated, so the starvation danger isn't too high... she looks like she must have fallen ill pretty quickly... her feathers are in good shape, she seems well nourished for a feral, etc. Hoping that bodes well...

Your well-wishes are most appreciated!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Well, we made it through another day. She pooped --- nasty and green, but at least something is moving though her system. 

She's a little bit more alert on the whole than yesterday, though that isn't saying much, and doesn't seem to be straining quite as hard to breathe. Her legs are almost totally limp, but she does seem to have some use of her wings (I think mostly the wings are just weak). She is holding her head up on her own today, and is staying upright with the aid of a bedding of fleece material. 

I'm keeping her hydrated with pedialyte, sticking with the baytril, and just letting her rest as much as possible. I'll try feeding a bit more formula tomorrow than I have been, since we did have a dropping today.... so far I've been doing mostly liquid with just a tiny bit of formula in it. 


I'll be home tomorrow and all weekend, so will be around to hydrate her more regularly ... today I had to be away for a chunk of the day, so I did the best I could given that.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Good work!

How are her respiratory symptoms going?

For respiratory issues, I'd consider getting her on doxycycline/tetracycline, say if she doesn't improve or takes a turn for the worse. These are good antibiotics for the respiratory/air sac infections, and you can get tetracycline from a pet shop easily.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

A miracle that she is actually rebounding even a bit...you have done very well so far and played every card right. Baytril is a good call as is the Kaytee and Pedialyte.

Anyone's guess as to what it might be at this point...but Cipro (Baytril) is always a good call initially as a wide-net.

I would assume the open-mouth breathing has ceased or at least diminished ? Doxy is good for respiratory and gut infections...but I am not sure it can be given concurrently with Cipro/Baytril.

I am sure you know of the available vets/clinics/wildlife care facilities in the Bay Area which treat Pigeons w/o confiscating them....

Keep it up.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi folks --

Thanks for your replies  

Most of what I know about pigeon rehab, I learned from FeralPigeon, so I had a very good teacher -- plus, of course, what I've learned from this board. 

Little pidge is markedly improved this morning -- much more alert, eyes are brighter, definitely fighting me about the feeding tube (as much as a half-paralyzed bird can) -- and we had a small, but fairly solid dropping, too -- still very green, but nowhere near as nasty as last night. I'm feeling a lot more comfortable giving formula now that the gut is moving.

I was also thinking maybe Doxy or Doxy-T might be a good call, and I will get some to have it on hand. So far, the Baytril is working well.... thank goodness. It's generally my go-to first line of defense when its a life or death call to be made and paratyphoid is even in the spectrum of possibilities. 

My initial gut feeling on this is maybe Paratyphoid, due to the CNS symptoms -- but I know that Chlamydia and other things can get into the CNS too. 

Her breathing is a lot better -- still a little bit of open beak, but nothing like two days ago. 

No sign of life in her legs at all, yet -- but she can keep herself upright now with her wings, and she's gaining a little bit of strength.

Needless to say, I'm cautiously encouraged. 

I'm treating my clothing like a hazmat suit -- stripping head to toe after handling her, obsessively hand washing, etc. She's as far as is physically possible from my other birds, and that's a good distance (two rooms away) but the possibility of contagion still scares the heck out of me. 

I'm keeping all my others on probiotics/acv/garlic/vitamins (I generally do this anyway) -- and am going to add a very small amount of colloidal silver in their water as well. I hope that's enough to keep any spreading of disease from happening.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Wow -- we are showing some real improvement over here now -- she's much more alert, and even pecked a bit at the towel tonight... she's getting curious about her surroundings.

I'll thicken up the formula tomorrow, and see if I can get her to pick at some small seeds as well.

We had some twitching in the legs tonight, too -- a little hint of movement returning, maybe.... and a certifiable wing flap while I held her. 

Nice to be able to offer a happy update tonight.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

She drank on her own today -- I held a very shallow dish up for her, and she drank quite a lot. She is having a little trouble swallowing I think (that is worrying with the possibility of aspiration)-- no interest in food yet, so we did another dilute crop feed. I'm going to start using a slightly thicker feeding tube and mix the feed a bit thicker from here -- when I first brought her in, she was so dehydrated that it was tough to get a tube down at all. 

Her beak looks much better -- pink inside, rather than greyish blue around the edges, as it was before -- this is a very good sign. She's also more alert, though for very short periods and then she falls right back asleep. 

We had some twitchy head movements today -- not torsion, exactly -- just fast twitches. I did some very gentle leg movements with her -- and rubbed her legs a bit -- she seemed to like that. She also seemed to like being gently scritched around the neck/throat.

I'm pretty sure she's a youngster -- my guess would be probably born last spring. She still has that awkward adolescent look about her a bit.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Well, we are definitely improving!  

She's drinking enthusiastically when I hold the bowl for her now, her eyes are much brighter, and she tried to peck at some seeds, but that was a no-go -- she can't get the seeds to go in her mouth.... her head is very twitchy, and she is sort of swooping in at the seeds from the side, with rather poor aim. 

I'm beginning to think PMV and a concurrent bacterial infection... I have a PMV bird whose movements are very much like that when she's flared up. Then again, paratyphoid can do the same number on them. Definitely going to finish out a good course of Baytril, though I know that is a mixed-blessing if she does happen to have PMV, I don't think I can really risk NOT doing it. 

She's had a couple of little flapping/flopping fits that also seem PMVish....

Her respiration is a ton better though.... still beak breathing a tiny bit -- but I can't hear congestion in her lungs and her nasal passages look pretty clear. 

I think it may be time for a name.... (I'd held off on that, trying not to get attached.... but its too late anyhow -- I've already let her into my heart.)

I'm going to start adding in supportive supplements to her formula, now that her crop is functioning better -- not just probiotics, but also a little garlic juice and a little colloidal silver. That should hopefully have some antiviral and antifungal effects.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Her abdomen and vent area are really, terribly tender  I was cleaning her, since she has diarrhea and can't help getting it all over her legs and vent... and she flipped out when I touched her there at all -- she hasn't reacted to much of anything else I've done, and has even gotten pretty calm about the feeding tube... but this was clearly causing her pain! I will be very, very gentle about cleaning in that area from here on out.

Goodness, I hope she isn't eggbound on top of everything else. 

Her droppings are very slimy and very bright green -- and I am sure some of that is because she hasn't been eating -- but the tenderness is worrisome.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Can you get her to the vet who does Pigeons a-gratis ? I think it is the place in Oakland...dammit, the name of the facility is escaping me but possibly feralPigeon can tell you it....aaah, Montclair Vet Hospital, One of their vets does Pigeons.

I think you are doing everything right...but it sounds like there's sumthin' goin' on that defies a good guess. That's when I go to the avian vet.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Montclair has a very good avian vet -- I have used them before (and, in fact, they passed a pigeon on to me a while back.) 

I'm thinking the tenderness may be from the intestinal inflammation -- the droppings being like they are is pointing more to paratyphoid rather than PMV, I think. I'm sure she could use worming, when she's stronger. An xray would be very useful with the abdomen, though.

A vet visit is probably a good idea at this point, since it looks like she has a fighting chance of actually surviving. I honestly didn't think she'd make it this far. I'll see if Montclair can see her.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I agree, it's a testament to you and your care that she has managed to rebound to this degree. Like you...I am aware of my own limitations as a rescuer and when things start getting into either crapshoot guessing, possible gut issues, ocular issues, or orthopedic issues...it's off to the vet we go.

But you have done fabulously for your little pal so far...keep it up.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

She's still improving today -- much more alert. She actually opened her beak for the feeding tube, lol... I have never seen that happen before!

The vent is still very tender -- I clipped off all the soiled, downy feathers around it, and the vent is quite swollen. She gets pretty frantic when I get near her hind end at all -- and she is otherwise very docile, so it must hurt terribly. I have some metacam, and I may give her a half dose of that before I have to clean the area again. In the event that its an egg binding, it also may help her pass the egg.

I'm doing warm compresses on the vent, have her on a heating pad... and am doing periodic warm baths of the hind end....I will get her to Montclair on Monday if they can see her. My only option over the weekend is an emergency hospital and I had a less-than-stellar experience there in the past with an egg-prolapse.... so I will wait and get her to Montclair. She's definitely getting better rather than worse.... fed more today, though, as she is going really light.... so I am going to get as much formula in there as she can comfortably digest today. 

She's such a sweet bird -- seems to be so accepting of help -- even preened me a little today --- 

Oh, and we named her. "Hazmat" the pigeon, lol.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

OH MY GOODNESS! We have turned a corner  I have been well and truly pecked by a very feisty little creature  It has that feeling of "wrestling" more than attacking... a lot like my tame male whose favorite pastime is gnawing on me. 

I didn't go the vet route, because he (I'm beginning to think Hazmat is a male) is SO much better today. Vent swelling is way down, tenderness seems to be mostly gone, poops are normalizing, he's pecking at seeds -- still having problems getting the seeds all the way into the mouth, so I am still crop feeding. 

I think the pijjie-sitzbaths were a good idea--- not only did it clean off the poop without pain, but it also seems to have been really helpful with whatever was going on in the vent. 

The best part is that he's getting some function back in his legs. I'm doing the physical therapy thing... putting him in a standing position and gently moving him up and down... and today I felt some life and strength in his legs. I don't know if he will ever regain use of them, but he's getting quite crafty about moving around using just his wings... sort of pulling himself where he wants to go. 

At the very least, he can probably have a good life as a special needs pet -- and that makes me happier than I can possibly express. 

The beak breathing has ceased altogether, and his lung sound clear. He is breathing through clear nostrils  Thank goodness for baytril!


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## msmely (Feb 13, 2011)

So nice to read these kind of stories, good luck!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would still bring him to the vet, as they may be able to shed more light on the leg issues. He won't have much quality of life without the use of them. Using his wings to get around isn't good.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The motor nerves for the legs go through the kidneys so swelling there will cause varying amounts of weakness to the point of seeming paralysis. Usually I treat ones like that with either Baytril or Trimethoprim/Sulfa. Had one earlier this year with that very same thing that responded well to the point of simply letting her go (she also had fits of torticollis, kinda' like epileptic fits). And would you believe that somebody gave me a Bobwhite Quail with similar symptoms? Same thing, except that little guy turned into a little monster when he healed up. I gave him back before he killed us... The Beak of Death! She later confided to me that she was afraid he was going to take over the planet...

Good work!

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> The motor nerves for the legs go through the kidneys so swelling there will cause varying amounts of weakness to the point of seeming paralysis. Usually I treat ones like that with either Baytril or Trimethoprim/Sulfa. Had one earlier this year with that very same thing that responded well to the point of simply letting her go (she also had fits of torticollis, kinda' like epileptic fits). And would you believe that somebody gave me a Bobwhite Quail with similar symptoms? Same thing, except that little guy turned into a little monster when he healed up. *I gave him back before he killed us... The Beak of Death! She later confided to me that she was afraid he was going to take over the planet...*Good work!
> 
> Pidgey



That's funny!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

That is funny about the quail! 

His poops look about a million times better now. Legs are also better today -- some movement is definitely returning. He can perch on my hand if I place him there and support him a little.... and can stand if I hold him, but topples right over if I don't. When lying down, he still needs his legs stretched out to the back, or they spasm up and knock him over on his side. 

I'm almost positive this is paratyphoid -- I read a thread on here about loss of color in the irises with paratyphoid.... well, when I brought the little guy in, his entire eyes looked like one big, dark pupil....today, bright amber eyes! He's also starting to put on weight -- breathing is much, much better, but still a little congestion if I hold him up to my ear. 

The head is better too -- much less twitching, and better aim. He's still having trouble pecking up seeds... he can get them in the beak tip, but rarely all the way in... like a baby when it first learns to peck, though this bird is definitely not that young. 

I think continued treatment for the paratyphoid may be enough to restore function to the legs.... I really hope so. The amount of improvement is mindblowing, really. 

I get pecked mightily when I put my hands in HIS carrier, lol! He certainly took ownership over his current digs with some gusto. 

When he's out, I get alternating play pecks, and loving little preens.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's always rewarding to watch them come back to life. In Bobby's case (the Bobwhite Quail), you needed to watch from across the room. Silly me, I cuddled the little guy up to my face only to get my eyeball pecked so hard I thought it had popped. They say that there are an awful lot of nerve ends in eyeballs and lemme' tell ya'... THEY'RE RIGHT! 

And somehow, Bobby understood that real well. It's funny how they can be so helpless and loving when they're sick and then turn into The Children of The Corn as soon as they start getting well. Oh, yeah, some don't, but some... well... it's almost enough to make one consider quitting rehabbing.

Anyhow, yeah, he oughta' come back just about all the way.

Pidgey


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Pidgey -- I have a male pigeon (tame as the day is long) named Slayer, who loves nothing more than to maul me in every conceivable way. I don't let him near my head unless I am wearing glasses...lol. He has a funny way of showing his affection  

Glad you didn't lose an eye to the quail!!

I'm really encouraged by Hazmat's progress... I am thinking it isn't too far a stretch to hope that he could make a full recovery -- there's a long way to go, yet, but it just keeps getting better. 

He's a feisty one, too -- already becoming very pecky and fond of gnawing, which is why I think he may be a young male. Of course, there are hens who do that too, so who knows...?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Pidgey said:


> It's always rewarding to watch them come back to life. In Bobby's case (the Bobwhite Quail), you needed to watch from across the room. Silly me, I cuddled the little guy up to my face only to get my eyeball pecked so hard I thought it had popped. They say that there are an awful lot of nerve ends in eyeballs and lemme' tell ya'... THEY'RE RIGHT!
> 
> And somehow, Bobby understood that real well. It's funny how they can be so helpless and loving when they're sick and then turn into The Children of The Corn as soon as they start getting well. Oh, yeah, some don't, but some... well... it's almost enough to make one consider quitting rehabbing.
> 
> ...



Oh, Giggle Pidgey!

Mine all do the `beak of death' too. They squint their little eyes and then do the most vicious peck, while I stifle my giggles. Its only the ones who trust me with their lives though, lol.

I am silly enough to consider it an honor, when its probably just a sign of beign accepted into the pecking order as some kind of Janitor But its still acceptance, right?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Bella -- we really are the janitors, aren't we?... and room service, too


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

minimonkey said:


> Bella -- we really are the janitors, aren't we?... and room service, too


Minimonkey, oh yes! I feel like room service too! 

Don't you think , its all worth it to see them have a good life they would never normally get though?. I'm sure they'd be more courteous if they had more practice at not suffering & dying whenever something goes wrong for them.

Or maybe they are just superior, lol. (I can't build a nest)


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Bella -- yes, it's well worth it to me  I think most of my birds are pretty fond of me, actually. 

I only have one hen who just utterly hates people, and I so wish that she could have been released, but her wing never fully recovered from the hideous paratyphoid boils she had when I brought her in -- she regained some flight, but will never be a strong flyer -- so I just leave her alone as much as possible and try to keep her happy. She has a mate, and a pretty good life overall.


Hazmat is still improving over here -- movement definitely returning to the right leg, and somewhat to the left as well. Poop is plentiful, and finally brown rather than green. The consistency is a bit mushy, but I suspect that is mostly from being formula fed. He's definitely putting on some weight, thank goodness... and his breathing sounds good.

He can get the round seeds -- peas, I think -- to go in his mouth on his own now... but everything else is still more frustration than it is food. I've been doing some hand seed-pops, but am still formula feeding for the most part. We do attempt seeds at every meal, and I suspect eventually he'll get the hang of it. His aim is a lot better, and the head twitching has all but stopped. 

He was preening more than pecking today... I think he's bonding with me despite himself.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I would still bring him to the vet, as they may be able to shed more light on the leg issues. He won't have much quality of life without the use of them. Using his wings to get around isn't good.


I have to agree with this. Really...I am glad improvement continues, but...as your pal's only advocate on the entire planet...don't you sorta owe it to him/her to do all that you possibly can to see if he can be returned to as normal a function as possible ?

I dunno...you are really just taking a guess here...and lack of leg function is relatively serious.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but...well...I said it above already. You have access to a good vet..,and there are so many places in the world where folks do not have that great fortune...you should really take advantage of that for the sake of your Pigeon buddy.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

If it looks like the legs aren't continuing to improve, I will go to the vet ... no worries. 

I'm just working with extremely limited financial resources at the moment and I don't have a car (I'm not in Oakland anymore.) Still, if the improvement slows or stops, we will get to the vet. Montclair is great, but has never been free when I've taken birds in before... maybe they have a program I don't know about, however. Given my financial limitations, I would not have brought in another bird, had I not found this one lying on the brink of death....

As of last night, he had voluntary movement in both legs... not enough to stand yet, but enough to perch on my hand with very little assistance once I put him there.... and he's definitely stronger on the whole. 

I've aided the recovery from paratyphoid before, and this is pretty on-par so far...... better, in fact, than I had dared to hope for this soon. 

I appreciate the feedback, and will certainly do all I can to get the little guy functioning normally again.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

After breakfast update -- legs are better yet, this morning. He can very nearly get them up under himself unaided, and preferred to have them under him rather than back when I tucked him up in his carrier. He's starting to be able to grip with his feet.

Head spasticity appears to be gone completely. He's starting to flap his wings a bit, too . I'm feeling hopeful that he will come back completely.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

What you are doing for that Pigeon is wonderful ..


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

Good job! I really hope this little one gets better!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks, folks....

Well-- he pecked up an entire meal of seeds tonight by himself (not just the peas), drank on his own, and can now perch tucked-up on my hand without my aiding his balance 

Not standing alone yet, but well on his way I think.... and he is quite the frisky little fellow. He hasn't vocalized yet, but I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if he's still peeping. Now that he's healthier, it is clear he is pretty young. 

He's a cuddler at the moment... all preens and playful pecks. We'll see how long that lasts...lol.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Every day is better -- legs are almost under him today, but very shaky. I'm getting little wing twitches, and I got a "peep" this morning -- so, yes, still very young. He does have all his adult feathers.

He's getting very squirmy and not at all wanting to stay in one place -- once he's mobile, watch out world!

Still supplementing the seeds with formula.. he needs to put on some weight.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Just an update... he has use of his left leg pretty fully now... and he is very determined to stand! His right leg is still pretty weak, and he still can't stand unassisted... but I feel pretty optimistic that he will eventually be able to use that leg as well...

He's pecking at seeds regularly, but I am continuing to supplement with formula -- and am going to keep him on the baytril for a while longer (I have had to do long courses with paratyphoid before.) We're doing lots of physical therapy with the legs. His wings are working well now, and are getting strong... he likes to flap them when he's out of the carrier. I hold him and let him flap -- he would have become airborne yesterday if I had let him.

Since the landing gear is still defective, that plane isn't ready for takeoff just yet!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Lookin' good! I often let them flap to the bed for easy landings. It's usually a learning curve--I start them out right over it and then work them out farther and farther.

Pidgey


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

minimonkey said:


> Just an update... he has use of his left leg pretty fully now... and he is very determined to stand! His right leg is still pretty weak, and he still can't stand unassisted... but I feel pretty optimistic that he will eventually be able to use that leg as well...
> 
> He's pecking at seeds regularly, but I am continuing to supplement with formula -- and am going to keep him on the baytril for a while longer (I have had to do long courses with paratyphoid before.) We're doing lots of physical therapy with the legs. His wings are working well now, and are getting strong... he likes to flap them when he's out of the carrier. I hold him and let him flap -- *he would have become airborne yesterday if I had let him.
> *
> *Since the landing gear is still defective, that plane isn't ready for takeoff just yet!*


*
*


You can still let him fly to soft surfaces, like the bed, even with his legs not fully working yet. That is what I did with a house pij I have who had a bad splayed leg. Soft landing won't hurt him, and it actually helped to get Scooter to use the legs more and build up strength. I would let him fly, as if you don't, later he may not. When he is trying to use his wings is the time to let him. I know someone who had a bird who wasn't allowed to fly when younger. Later, the bird never even tried to fly. Didn't know he could. Just stay with him, and catch him if it looks like he isn't going to land on the soft bed.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

He's getting stronger by the day -- I moved him from the carrier into a medium sized cage, with a padded fleece bottom and sides and a heating pad, and am making him a landing pad for short flaps. He has room to flap his wings in his new digs, and he seems to like that quite a lot. He's bright and alert, and seems in good spirits.

His legs both have movement now, but he can't get up on them yet. ... He can semi-stand if I balance him.... and he is constantly fighting to get his legs under him -- very determined little guy. He does have a tendency to take rather spectacular headplants when trying to walk, though... hence the padding. 

He's still not eating much on his own... hard to tell if it is disinterest, or that he is still having trouble pecking... when I have him out, he will sort of play-peck at the seeds, eat a few, and give up. I'm still crop feeding, and at this rate I will be for a while. He's still very thin. 

Jay -- I also have a splay leg house pij (with PMV,) and we do the flap to the bed thing regularly. She has learned to navigate her way around very well, even though her foot literally sticks up and out the back. She's my little mate -- sits a nest for me, and sings me love songs. She's a terrible flier, but she loves to keep trying. (She's the bird in my avatar.)


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hazmat is making some big strides towards wellness now -- he's perching with almost no assistance on my hand, can stand as long as he has balance assistance, and is getting pretty able to navigate around his new digs. He's still pretty twitchy all over sometimes.... like fits of shaking (I've seen this before with paratyphoid) -- but they are fewer and shorter now... and he's definitely starting to gain weight. His balance is definitely starting to return.

He's eating a little bit more on his own, too.


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

hey, I was wondering...can we have a picture? I've always imagined her as a brown pij....


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Yes, I will take a picture of Hazmat when I get a free moment -- he's a grey checker -- with very dark greys. He looks quite a lot like Tundra.

(Still not sure if it is a he or a she... )

He's getting very strong now, and squirmy!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

He can now push himself up into a standing position, as long as he's leaning on something (like the fleece in the cage.) Stronger by the day, and his balance is improving.

I stopped the Baytril for now, because he started getting thrush... so I am treating with Dr. Pigeon cocci-cide which treats not only coccidiosis, but also thrush and aspergillosis. His poops are looking worlds better, but he's still not eating on his own, so I am still crop feeding. I'm giving a probiotic in his formula. I will likely go for another round of the Baytril, since my past experiences indicate that the normal 10 days-2 weeks isn't enough to knock it out -- but I need to get the thrush under control first, and the gut healthy. 

I'm hoping his appetite will pick up and he will start eating on his own... but for now, we are enduring the crop feeding together (neither one of us likes it all too much!) 

He's quite the sweet little guy -- like scratches and preening quite a lot, and likes to peck me furiously when I am inside his hut...lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

With all the antibiotics, should he not be on Nystatin along with the antibiotics? Probiotics won't help much until after treatment as the antibiotics kill them off along with the bad bacteria.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I just finally got the Medistatin that I had on order ... I know the probiotics only do so much, but they do help combat things after the fact. 

Dr Pigeon's formula is actually pretty ace for thrush... all visible signs of it disappeared after one day. If he keeps improving, I don't know that I will need to do another round of Baytril -- but if I do, I have the Medistatin to go along with it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad you got the Medistatin, and that he is doing better.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I've noticed that Baytril tends to be particularly nasty for causing thrush --or maybe it is a combination of that and the immune taxation from paratyphoid... but, yes, antifungal treatment is definitely in order. I'm glad to have the medistatin -- I prefer to give an antifungal with antibiotics just as a matter of course.

The one advantage, I believe, that the Dr. Pigeon's has over the medistatin is that it is systemic -- whereas the Medistatin treats on-contact only. 

His beak is looking pretty good today -- the visible thrush is gone, and his mouth is clearly feeling much better. His breathing is totally clear -- but he's still battling a lot of neurological symptoms. They are improving, day to day, but there's rather a long way still to go.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Just my little daily Hazmat update -- he is eating more on his own, finally, and drinking on his own more regularly. He's also getting a lot better at getting around his cage --and I think he looks forward to our feeding and preening sessions -- he was genuinely snuggly tonight --gnawing on my fingers softly and preening my hand. He's bright and alert now -- very curious about his surroundings. He twitches his wing when he hears me coming.

His balance is getting better all the time, though he still can't stand unaided -- he is managing to keep his feet under him pretty consistently, and he does stand while leaning against the fleece in his cage. He is one very determined little bird.... his will to live and to heal is really an inspiration to me. Poor little guy had a really rough start.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

WOW!!! Guess who stood by himself, and walked a few steps today!!???!!  

Thrush problems are under control -- I put him on colloidal silver when I took him off the Baytril, and I think it is really helping... or maybe it is just time and rest... but something is working. He is showing some truly remarkable improvements now. I'm beginning to think this one may be on the road to a full recovery.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

You are are doing a Wonderful job on that bird.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How's he doing today?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

minimonkey said:


> WOW!!! Guess who stood by himself, and walked a few steps today!!???!!
> I'm beginning to think this one may be on the road to a full recovery.


What a difference you've made to him. Do you think he'd ever be releasable now as I know you obviously never expected him to come back to even this level at one point.

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I suspect he is going to be far too tame to release, even if he gets full function back. He has turned into a little love muffin -- cuddles galore. 

He's better by the day -- we are still doing supplemental crop feeding but he is drinking and eating some now on his own. He's getting closer and closer to being able to stand unaided, too. He can take little flaps as long as he has a soft place to land. He still has the twitching spells, but they are a lot less severe.

He's continuing to improve while off the Baytril, so I am keeping him off it -- if he looks to be stalling out on his recovery, we'll do another round.

He's so sweet -- does the little bonded wing twitch when he sees me coming, gets genuinely excited for his formula ... loves to gnaw softly on my fingers.... just precious all around. He has stolen the hearts of everyone in this household.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

He's doing a lot more sitting up unaided today -- and has managed to stand a couple of times briefly on his own. He looks so surprised when it happens!  He can't sustain it long before toppling over again, but he's a very determined little guy ... keeps getting back up, trying some more, etc.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

He's walking a little!! He needs to flap his wings while he does it to keep balance, but he can get his feet under him and take a few steps at a time. Then, he topples over... but can get upright again straight away, and generally get back into a sitting position with his feet underneath him, all on his own. This is a huge difference from about a week or two ago, when he couldn't manage to stay upright on his own consistently, even when I propped him up.

He's doing quite a bit of flapping about inside the hut, which is lined with fleece, so he is safe from injury.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

That's so lovely when they allow cuddles.
I've just been treating a youngster that was very sick and by the sounds of it had similar problems with his legs and balance as your little one.
He too has become tame and is sitting on my shoulder now, little mischief!
It's taken a few weeks but once he started to regain the use of his legs recovery came on leaps and bounds.
I'm enjoying your updates and pleased it's still all good!

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

So glad your young one is recovered, and fond of you! It's so hard to see them struggle so badly when they are ill. 

Hazmat does seem to be getting better quite rapidly now, which is very inspiring to me. He's also very young, and I think that is why he is becoming so bonded to me. He loves the cuddles -- and yes, that is a lovely thing indeed.

I re-read this thread last night, and it really is amazing how far he's come... he was one very, very sick little bird when I found him.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

He stood up today, totally unaided... and took a tiny little flight! Then, he fell over... but there is definite progress every day. 

He also had a beautiful, formed, healthy looking poop -- finally! We did a bunch of seeds by hand today ... and at the suggestion of members in several old threads, I am going to try defrosted peas, to see if he can get those to go in his beak and stay there. He's still tossing seeds about, but not really able to get them in his beak on his own. 

He's growing quite weary of the tube feeding... and so am I. He'd much rather just peck my fingers endlessly, and get lots of scritches about the neck....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

First you have to feed the defrosted peas to him a few times, so he'll recognize them as food. Then he should be able to pick them up on his own.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks, Jay -- I will give that a go. I've never run into this problem before.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I wonder if it puts their natural development back when they're so sick at this early age as my little one had a lot of crop issues.
He's only just learnt to pick up seeds for himself and he's been inside with me since August. I still tube him once a day as his weight had dropped from 265gms to 220gms.
Karyn advised me to mix his Kaytee with Infant Soya milk to keep the calorie intake up and then he went onto pellets, hand fed for a while.
He has been pecking at seeds and in fact anything at all on the floor for weeks so not that he didn't want to do it, but no luck with getting them down his throat.
I think he actually got the hang of it eventually after I started to hand feed small peas and then the first thing he picked up for himself were tiny chopped pieces of watercress stalks. I suppose they are a little easier than seeds as they're flexible and soft. Now last week he cracked the seeds.

Stmjpppppppppp---###########################
ill pecking at my fingers while I'm trying to type now!!! That mess there is his walking over the keyboard trying to get at my hands!!!

Sorry didn't mean him to hijack your thread.

Good update this morning again!

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

We are mobile!!! He has to get a bit of a flapping start, but he can actually walk! There isn't any grace about it yet, but boy does he think it is fun  

I was wondering about the development, too -- he's doing the same as yours -- pecking at everything he sees, but not much luck getting things into the beak. It is like a baby when it first, first starts pecking. Also, he's doing a lot of helicoptering .. but he had all his adult feathers when I brought him in nearly a month ago... no down anywhere. His developmental curve is definitely odd compared to other youngsters. 

We tried defrosted peas and corn tonight -- he wasn't sure he liked that all too much, but we did get a meal in. He did, however, drink on his own, totally unaided, from his tiny shallow bowl  

This little bird just doesn't quit trying ... it is so inspiring to see his strong little spirit!

I like your pigeon's typing, Janet  This isn't a thread hijack at all -- it is really helpful to read about others that had similar experiences, and plus, it makes me happy to read it. It took your little guy quite a while to start eating on his own... we will just be patient over here.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh, he flew up from the floor to a table today!! We were doing our little "flap and feed," and I turned my head for a moment, and he launched 

Didn't quite make the landing, but it wasn't disastrous -- he just ended up flapping back down. He took another little fly, too -- up higher -- missed his intended bed rail, but landed on a lamp. 

He had a pretty bad shaking/head turning fit this morning -- so I am going in for another week or so of Baytril (with Medistatin) -- his poops, while better, are still a bit mucusy and a little odorous too... not foul really, but they have a smell that isn't quite normal for a healthy pigeon. I'm thinking we may not have knocked the infection out all the way. 

I'm treating all my birds for canker right now, him included, with the Dr. Pigeon's tricho-cease, which is a 3 day water treatment. He had one dose of Spartrix when I first brought him in, but I think the re-treatment is a good idea. I don't see any visible signs of canker, but there is a slight yellowish tint to his urates. (The flock treatment is preventative -- I do that a couple of times a year since I have a couple of birds who are prone to getting it.) 

He's trying to eat seeds (not the defrosted peas.. he doesn't care for those at all and tries to spit them out!) He still can't get the seeds into his beak, though... so we are seed popping by hand. He actually seems to enjoy that. Still doing one formula feeding in addition to the seed pops.

Overall, he's doing better all the time .. he can sit up reliably now, stand intermittently on his own, and has started to helicopter a lot... and today the two real launches. He gets very excited about his excursions out of the cage... total spirit of adventure.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Well, transitioning to solid food was a good move -- poops are much, much better today. Also, on our third (and final) day of Dr. Pigeon's canker treatment, we have nice, bright white urates... so that seems to have done the trick.

Now, if he will just start eating on his own, we will really be in business. Flapping and walking are going reasonably well -- still pretty wobbly with the walking, but he sure likes doing it....and the little flaps are great fun.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Good news about the better poops!

I've just weighed Dusty and he's going up at last without any tube feeding and like you I've now seen a great improvement in his poops, so I bet once you've managed to stop formula altogether, they'll be pretty normal.

Love the helicoptering/flying progress too!!

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I am trying out solid food with no formula -- just regular seed and pellet pops by hand. I hope he will gain some weight -- he's growing bigger, but still very thin. 

The good news is that he seems to be digesting the seeds really well. He's drinking on his own, which is a great thing.

In fact, it is time for a little meal right now -- and cuddles and flaps!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Walking is much better today  He's standing pretty well now -- and enjoying the small flaps. Still no interest in eating on his own, but I hope that will come eventually. 

I do encourage him to peck, like one does with a baby -- but it hasn't resulted in anything. He actually tries to squirm away from the defrosted peas, so we abandoned those. At least he likes the dried seeds and pellets when I feed them to him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Never had a pigeon that didn't like and pick up the defrosted peas on their own, after a few times of having them hand fed. They just have to recognize them as food.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Jaye -- I did several meals of the defrosted peas -- he genuinely seems to dislike them. He will peck halfheartedly at the seeds, but the defrosted peas? Not at all -- He didn't want any part of me feeding them to him, either. I have no idea why they aren't enticing to him.

He's standing on his own most of the time now, and walking around the cage -- so we are definitely improving! His poops actually look great now that we have moved to seeds -- and I got a wing whack yesterday from him 

I suspect the eating will come in time -- but it seems to be the last thing to improve. 

At least the seed popping is a lot less messy than tube feeding, and more pleasant for both of us, and he is showing some marginal interest in eating the seeds.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I had to be assured the self feeding would come but I have to admit that I became convinced at one point that he had a disability with his beak or some other problem that stopped him getting the seeds down his throat.
I couldn't believe he could try so hard and for so long and not get the hang of it!
Then one day, he did. 
Now he's so greedy, in fact obsessed with eating that I have to give him his own feeding tray as he chases all the others off when they try to eat, and he's the tiniest little thing. I swear he'll go pop soon. 

Keep the faith,

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hazmat is eating!!! FINALLY! He seems to do better with the smaller seeds, so I am giving him the seed mix I use for my doves, plus some hemp and safflower seeds, but he is finally, finally self feeding!!

Thanks you Janet for sharing your story -- I admit I was getting worried there for a bit, and I kept thinking about your little guy. 

He's walking, too.. he has to flap to do it, but he can stand and walk... and he is also flying in short bursts. I am going to be building him a "big boy hutch" over my Thanksgiving break, with perches to flap up and down -- I think he's ready for that.

He will be a solo bird, I think, in terms of housing -- my main flock would attack him, I think... but I have two other solos nearby to keep him company, and someone (human) is in this room just about all the time. 

He still sits funny, for lack of a more technical term... he kind of rocks backward and sits on his tail -- maybe in time he will get more balance... but on the whole, I am just amazed at his recovery. He is one spunky, wonderful little guy!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's good news. I'm glad he's doing better.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

This story sounds very similar to my pigeon story. I am glad your pigeon is doing well. My pigeon also is doing well despite his deformed beak. He eats alot! He eats dove seed mix along with Harrison's pellets.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm so pleased he's cracked the feeding bit !! Just when you're about to lose hope, the little bu..ers find the key.

That must be a relief as much in the emotional sense and also the time aspect of feeding him.

Dusty can't fly well but scoots up and down the ramps having watched the disabled ones doing it. I think he thinks that's what you do...Fly? why bother!
I was worried about him going in with the big birds but I have to say he's fine and even a bit bossy. I feel sad I've had to back off a bit so he would integrate as he saw me as his mum/mate, but today I saw him trying out his breaking voice, chatting up his mum.
Maybe Hazmat will still gain some more mobility as time goes on and then he'd be less likely to be bullied. I don't blame you for keeping him solo, he's been a real miracle, so it would be sad if he had a bad experience in with the others at this stage.

Boy, I bet you never even dared hope he'd get this far when you look back at the beginning of this thread. It's wonderful news.
Do keep us updated, and good luck with your 'home making' for him.

Janet


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> This story sounds very similar to my pigeon story. I am glad your pigeon is doing well. My pigeon also is doing well despite his deformed beak. He eats alot! He eats dove seed mix along with Harrison's pellets.


It's great to hear that.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

The biggest thing I've discovered about pigeons is that they are sooo different than parrots. "Craow Dum" (my pigeon) is more like a dog. He follows me around and sits by my feet. He purrs like kitten when petted and held. He is very comical because he looks like a big doofus flapping his wings and "air walking" with his chubby little legs. Who would've ever thought pigeons would bring so much joy to your life!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

It's so inspiring to hear these success stories! Hazmat is flying more, now, and eating like a champ. He does better with the dove seeds and pellets, too, though he is getting the hang of the bigger seeds. 

His voice is breaking as well ... he mostly grunts, but has done a couple of tentative rookookoos... I am thinking he's a he, but still unsure. He's walking really well now, and loves to patter about all over the place.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh, and yes, I am totally amazed at his recovery. I really had very little hope when I brought him in, but he surprised me completely. I got lucky and nailed the diagnoses -- or at least got close enough to use meds that addressed what was ailing him. Baytril is very broad spectrum, so it isn't a bad go-to option with anything that looks like potential paratyphoid. Treating for canker and coccidiosis is never a bad idea with a feral. 

I'm still thinking he had paratyphoid -- everything points to it. In any case, he's almost fully recovered -- still has a few balance issues, but they are resolving, and he seems like a genuinely happy little bird! 

My main flock is vicious -- they will attack any bird that shows the least sign of weakness... I've had to remove two hens from the main aviary because they were getting beat up  

I have one particularly bossy male who will start attacking, and then the others start doing it too --

Hazmat gets a lot of people time, and has the company of two other solo housed, handicapped, tame pigeons nearby, so he's not alone... and he is pretty bonded to me at this point. I think it is best to leave it that way.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Nice to know he's doing so well. Where do you house the handicapped birds?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

My birds are all indoors -- we live in a spacious loft. The main aviary is in the big room, and so are the two mated hens and the doves. The handicapped ones are in the smaller lounge, where we spend most of our time. Each has a separate space -- one isn't flighted much at all and has a bad congenital dysplasia (like a severe splay leg), so she has a fleece lined cage right next to where I sit and work. One has a big, private hutch that I built -- he can fly some, but has a pretty bum wing, and is also extremely tame. 

Hazmat is also in a fleece lined medium sized cage at the moment, and still somewhat separate from the others -- I don't think he is sick anymore, but I am still being cautious. He's getting a big hutch in a couple of weeks, as soon as I have time to build it. He's ready ... he did a couple of very adept landings today!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The tame one with the bum wing --named Slayer -- is a funny story ... he literally just showed up in our place this past spring. He obviously came in the window -- I'm thinking he was part of the roof flock, and couldn't make it back to the roof, maybe...?

Anyhow, one morning, here is this injured, scrappy looking pigeon just sitting on the floor next to our aviary ... I walked up to him, and he started peeping. He couldn't fly much at all -- I think he was probably hit by a car. There was no sign of injury to the wing other than a bad bruise ... 

Well, he bonded to me like nobody's business, and has had almost no interest in the other birds at all -- he really prefers people. He's all healed up and huge and gorgeous now, but the wing never fully recovered -- and he is perfectly content to spend his time with us rather than the other birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think Slayer was lucky to get inside to you. When one of the flock that comes here is sick or injured, they hang around my aviary also. It's like they aren't able to leave with the flock, but just being near my loft, where they can see or hear the birds inside gives them comfort. So then I go out after dark and try to catch them. Makes it a bit easier that many of them will roost on top of the aviary for the night.

Why is the one with the splayed leg unable to fly? My Scooter has a badly splayed leg, but flies pretty well. Chases us all over the house. She didn't fly when we first got her, but we worked with her and she learned. She can even stand now, and walk a bit, and her leg goes out and to the back. She has amazed us with what she has been able to accomplish. She's my computer buddy, and has a shelf just over my shoulder when I'm on the computer. We have put up shelves for her to sit on when out of the cage, which is most of the time that we are home.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I also enjoy reading all these success stories.
Craow Dum grunts or rather barks like a dog. He will coo (more like a purr) when he is being petted. He had been a "favorite client" at my veterinary clinic.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Sorry I lost track of this thread -- I wanted to post an update. 

Hazmat is doing very well -- he never got full use of his legs back, and his balance is still wacky (he falls over pretty easily, and once his legs get going, he has no brakes) -- he clearly has some permanent neurological damage -- but all in all, he is a very resilient little bird .

He likes to play-wrestle with me, coos fiercely, and loves to have his head scratched (he can't get his legs to work well enough to scratch his neck, so I do it for him). 

Jay3 -- Psyche, my darling with the horrid splay, can't fly because her leg catches in her wing -- her leg looks like it is on upside down and backwards. My only option for fixing it, according to my vet when she was little, was amputation -- it's a congenital dysplasia, apparently, not a normal splay. (I have a splay legged ringneck dove who flies just fine.) 

Psyche can fly a little, but not well at all -- . She lives in a fleece lined hut, right next to where I sit and work -- and she has a little fleece nest that she sits -- she "purrs" too, and sings little love songs to me -- and would be happiest if I could pet and cuddle with her 24 hours a day, or perhaps just move into the nest with her... lol. She has a little doggy bed that she sits in on the couch next to me, when she isn't in her hutch.

I'm not entirely sure that Psyche is actually a female, as she's never laid (and she is clearly mated to me)-- but she certainly behaves like a hen, so I refer to her as "she." 

Now that Hazmat is well, I've moved his hutch right next to Psyche's -- they seem to enjoy each other's proximity -- not enough to be in the same hutch (Psyche pecks him when he gets too close if they are out together) -- but next door works just fine.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Glad to hear Hazmat is doing well 
I have 1 bird, 'Trouper', with the same leg problem as Psyche. More than just a splay. His leg is out of the hip socket, curled backwards and up over his back. He has a large 'handicap' cage next to my desk and gets around fine. Only option was to amputate the leg, but it doesn't interfere with his wing so I decided not to. He hops backwards, flapping his wings to get wherever he wants to go........He has mastered 'parallel parking', he backs up, turns then straightens out


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

MsFreebird -- that is the same thing Psyche has going on with her leg -- it is out of the socket, and it curls up and back. I didn't have the money for surgery when she was little so I didn't have it amputated -- that may or may not have been the best thing, but she had adapted to it just fine. Even if I had the money for surgery now (I don't), I think I would just leave it be -- she's used to her body being this way, and it doesn't seem to cause her any pain.

She hops and flaps, and gets where she needs to go, and her hut is all fleece lined, so she doesn't get injured doing that. 

The parallel parking thing is really cute, lol!


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