# Pigeon "Creaker" with respiratory creaks and clicks



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I have been observing this pigeon, whom I will call "*Creaker*," at the windowsill for several days. He was making a lot of loud clicks, spastic as when one hiccups or hiccoughs (I think pigeons technically cannot hiccup because they do not have a diaphragm as do humans), but it was a series of spastic, muscular actions. 

I encouraged him to eventually come in to the table next to the window to eat seeds, and tis evening I closed the window slowly with a string while he was eating. I had my tame pigeon *Wieteke* in the bathroom so he would not scare Creaker off. I brought Wieteke out of the bathroom, and he eventually chased “Creaker” into the bathroom, where I turn off the light and apprehend him.

Yesterday his clicks were less noticieable or less frequent. I heard a creaking similar to that of an old screen door closing, or a boat riding the swells pulling on its hawser.

I gave Creaker 0,25 ml Australia Pigeon Company brand Moxydectin Plus against bloodsucking internal and external parasites (air sac mites, pin worms, tapeworm, hairworms). 

I found suggestion to use *Oxine AH* in an earlier PT post. Antibiotics not effective against viral infections. 

Creaker seems healthy otherwise. Good appetite, good poops, flies quickly. More nervous after getting audible respiratory symptoms than he was before (I know this pigeon; he may be one of Wieteke's four grown offspring from last year).

I fogged Creaker with a _Pari eFlow _ultrasonic nebulizer (costs around a thousand dollars; used for asthmas, COPD, and CF patients; puts out an *ultrafine* mist), using 5 ml Oxine AH with 100 ml water. Oxine AH wll kill microorganisms by contact. If the microorganism has a mucus sheath or coating, preventing contact, it might not be effective. 

Videos are linked:

There is a whine or hum in the background from old, cheap ballast (transformer) of fluorescent lighting, which you can ignore. His sounds are intermittent, not continuous. 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2838358513621225309&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8193044566358692750&hl=en

Thanks for any suggestions or assistance you can give.

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*More details for description of breathing*

Pigeon Creaker is now resting on top of the electric water heater in the bathroom. It is night-time outside for an hour now, although he has no window to see out of. His breathing is very audible, especially during what I think are the exhalations. Sometimes I hear an inhalation (in the two-cycle breathing process).

The outer edge of his wings, the lower line formed by the pinfeathers when his wings are folded against his body, are parallel to the ground. His tail and rear projects over the edge of the heater. 

With every exhalation (I think it is the exhalation, the loudest part), he "creaks" or wheezes, then his tail dips momentarily a half-inch to an inch, to where it would be touching the ground if he were on a flat, level surface.

Larry


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well he definately has an upper respitory infection. Wow his breathing is bad. Can you take him to a vet in your area for meds? If not others will be on shortly to give more help and do thank you for taking care of him. You are a real sweety!

Cindy


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## myrpalom (Aug 12, 2004)

Maybe coryza or ornithosis.
I would give him amoxycilline (Synulox) or Ornicure.
Ornicure is available from Oropharma:

http://www.oropharma.com/en/duiven/html/verdelers_detail.php?oper=country&region_id=3&country_id=43

http://www.oropharma.com/en/duiven/html/coryza.html

It is best to give Ornicure with demineralised water.

Good luck with the little guy!
Myriam


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Larry, Tylan (Tylosine Tartrate) injectable, pill form, or water soluable, is the best for Respiratory Problems if it is respiratory. Works fast in any of these forms.. Happy


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Thanks Myriam, 

*Creaker* *is asleep, sounds like a small dog snoring.
*
No vet available before Monday earliest.

Taubenborse (pigeon/small animal market open tomorrow morning). Maybe some Oropharma products available.

No antibiotics available in Germany except through vet, unlike Belgium.

Pigeon Creaker has clear throat, no stringy mucus, nothing coming from nostrils. Looks healthy, acts healthy, only sounds bad.

On hand, I have 

1) Spartrix (carnidazol) (against canker or trichomoniasis or Gelben Knopf,
2) Ciprobay or ciprofloxin or cipro, antibiotic
3) cotrim antibiotic 
4) Gambakokid, powder against trichomoniasis (canker), and coccidiosis, and inflammation of the crop mucosal membrane. 

Should I use any of these before I can access vet Monday? 

So you are saying, if it is coryza (with only mild symptoms showing right now), he should get Ornicure, which is (info for other members) from Oropharm website,



> Ornicure:
> CONTAINS DOXYCYCLINE - HYCLATE
> box of 8 sachets or economy box of 24 sachets
> 
> ...


Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Happy,

Tylan (tylosine tartrate) antibiotic,

in Google, seems to be available in the U.S.. Probably not in Germany, except through vet.

Ordering anything from U.S. out of he question due to time constraints. I have a small stockpile of meds, slowly accumulated as budget allows, but it doesn't cover everything.

Thanks, 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Coryza remedy*

It seems I have something in the fridge I haven't looked at for a while:

Th. Backs GmbH Schnupfenmittel für Brieftauben, 
Backs' "sneezing" remedy for carrier pigeons.

Good until August 2008 (normal storage). Bought it in 2004 or 2005.

Seems, however, its more of a preventative, or prophylactic med.

Contains "Chinosol," peppermint oil, glycerin. Teaspoon per liter or quart of drinking water.

Haven't seen pigeon Creaker drink yet, even though I've had water in front of him. 

Larry


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Gosh Larry,This little fella needs all the help he can get. I hope piggie makes it.
I wish you both the very best and thank you for caring.
Jayne


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

No doubt that Creaker has a problem, Larry!

Sure hope you can get an answer and appropriate treatment!

Please keep up updated!

Sending Creaker healing thoughts, love, hugs and scritches!!

Shi & Squeaks


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Respiration Rate? Doesn't seem in respiratory distress but dried phlegm can sure cause a problem quickly. If you have a stethoscope, you can try to tell if the sound comes from the base of the neck or more up near the head.

Pidgey


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Quick update on pigeon "Creaker"*

Now, after 2 P.M. this afternoon, Pigeon *Creaker* sounds a bit better than at 7:00 A.M. this morning. 

She/he spent the night on the electric water heater. Plenty of poops and six or seven soft feathers below. She has been in darkness, with a faint night light, from midnight to now. Plenty of quiet and sleep, after being chased around yesterday. Food and water was on floor for her, but it was probably too dark for her to fly down unless really motivated.

Moved water and seed bowl to where she could access it up high. Moved her there also, and she wing-slapped me heartily once. Got her to sit on my hand while transferring her, brought her up to my ear. All her creaks sound a bit more moist now, possibly, and all seem to be coming from her nostrils or head area. Haven't yet located my cheap stethoscope to try out Pidgey's suggestion which I saw early this morning. I didn't eat most of yesterday, too wrapped up in Creaker project, and went to bed around 3:00 A.M. I brought my tame pigeon *Wieteke* in from the outside windowsill, on my shoulder, to see her, and he roo-cooed, claiming his territory. She started to eat. She gave some warning sounds, danger sounds, of "hehh" a couple of times, and I could hear the moist, gravelly creaking in her voice. 

After reading Myriam's suggestions of possible problems, saw on the Chevita website that ornithosis is a notifiable disease in Germany. Suspect vet visit may result in euthanasia. Don't think she would get antibiotic treatment readily, since she is a street pigeon. Most things available to the layman, such as my Back's sneezing remedy, containing Chinosol (some kind of garden plant from what have been able to find with Google), peppermint oil and glycerine for flock treatment in water. 

Things seem to generally point to coryza, which is a conglomeration of things taking advantage of the primary problem. I had given her 0.25ml of Australia Pigeon Company brand Moxydectin Plus against blood-sucking parasites (thought, why not? I have the stuff, probably no harm in using it and may help prevent an added complication). 

Last night at midnight I gave her a 10 mg tablet of Spartrix (carnidazol) to keep canker or trichomoniasis from deciding to take advantage of the situation. Also a millilter or so of the sneezing medicine, into the crop with syringe and feeding needle. 

After reading more about what Myriam suggested, and possible ramifications, thought I might have to release Creaker today or tomorrow. I do not have good facilities for keeping her, and need to consider my personal needs. Don't want to elaborate here. Have female non-flying *Osk-gurr*, with her and Wieteke's surviving baby chick in atelier, and don't want to risk them. Squeaker is doing fine, weighs 313 grams or 11 ounces, almost as much as dad. Three and a half weeks old. Parents have been pairing, preparing next nest site. Hope to get Osk-gurr to rehabilitator in a week or so; with or without mate and squeaker; things not certain or settled yet.

Creaker seems to have responded well to cool, ultrasonic nebulizer misting with Oxine AH. (Used 5 ml Oxine AH added to 110 ml water). First treatment yesterday evening consisted of 5 ml solution, over five to ten minutes. Will give her some more treatments, which she seemed to enjoy. 

She has eaten a good seed mix and has drunk water. When she rests, I sometimes don't hear any noises from her. Other times I do. Beak slightly parted, sometimes closed. Tail bobs maybe a half-inch, sometimes imperceptible. My observing her may also affect what symptoms she shows. She is alert. Last night she sounded like a gently snoring puppy dog. 

Thanks for everyone's help. May get some meds from Myriam.

Oh yes. Respiration rate has been slow and steady, Pidgey. Watch has a dead battery, so didn't count, yet. With laptop timer, respiration rate (each respiration with a creak and tail-bob) is 16-17 per minute. (First two-minutes: 34. Second two-minutes: 34). Sometimes a two-second pause here and there. 15:30 Sunday afternoon. She is resting. 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Released pigeon Creaker at 18:50. I definitely felt the air outside was much more conducive to her recovery than the stagnant air in the dark, windowless, bath. Felt that keeping her without appropriate meds avalable would be dong her more harm than good, given the particular circumstances. Keeping her there was not ideal for me either over a period of time. She was happy to be out of the cave. Feel that the pigeon may be a female with a nest, due to the times of her daily visits. Looked very fit, very strong flier, and very strong and resistant when I tried to handle her. Got her to sit quietly on my hand a few times, but there was nowhere for her to go either. Still some wheezing. Throat, nostrils, eyes clear.

Myriam is mailing me some meds for eventual needs. Probably takes five days to get here. Need to check out vet policies on ferals with notifiable diseases. 

Creaker will be back, I am sure, and I will continue to observe her. May give her some medicated treats. 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Amazing! No more creaks or wheezing!*

Pigeon *Creaker* came to the window today at 15:30, in the wake of my tame pigeon *Wieteke*, whom I took in to feed. 

I let Creaker eat from a seed jar at the sill of a different window, crept up quietly, and listened for a while with my head a foot away from him/her. Could hear no creaks or noises from her whatsoever, in spite of overlaying street noises. Found it hard to believe, since she was still making some noises yesterday evening when she flew out at at 18:50. 

Made two video clips, more to verify visually that it was indeed pigeon Creaker, than to pick up sounds. It is a Monday here, and normally Mondays are very busy and noisy compared to Sundays. Had to use a hand-held Apple iSight web-cam attached by a long FireWire cable to my Apple MacBookPro laptop computer, without being able to see what I was capturing on camera, due to tight space near window.

Two low-quality videos linked:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4355493993455915903&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7423073762183901744&hl=en


Maybe I'll have to re-name her "Creakerless," or "Creaks-No-More." (Names help me later recall other details, even for birds I deal with for a very short time).

Larry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I like Creaks-No-More, very native American, although she's not. LOL
I have a pigeon called, Feathered Foot who is a native American although she's concidered non native species. Crazy.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sounds great, Larry!!

Let's hope "Creaks-No-More" will continue to do the same!  

Shi & Squeaks


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It was probably a booger, Larry.

Pidgey


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