# whats a pin tail?



## gogo10131 (Aug 17, 2010)

I was reading a description for a racing pigeon someone had for sale and it said "one pin tail" what does that mean?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It means the tail is tightly stacked up to where from a top view, it looks like the bird only has one tail feather.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> It means the tail is tightly stacked up to where from a top view, it looks like the bird only has one tail feather.


becky i dont know too.....any picture that would help so much...


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

This first one is not a pintail as you can see a bunch of the tial feathers.










This second one the bird on the left is not a pin tail but the one on the right is close as she looks to almost only have one tail feather. 










This pic is of my bird who came in 3rd vs 314 birds from 164 miles and 5th in another race from 164 miles vs 261 birds this season. She doesn't have a pin tail and never did. The pin tail thing is to show the bird is heathy as a sick bird most likly won't have a pin tail. 










Another pic of the same bird from a side veiw.










I wish I could have gotten a better pic of a pin tail but my team just flew a hard race and they aren't back in top form yet.


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

Pigeon0446 said:


> The pin tail thing is to show the bird is heathy as a sick bird most likly won't have a pin tail.


This is the first I've heard of the pin tail being associated with the general health of a bird... I had the impression that it was something to do with posture or body build, since people seem to have preferences going both ways.

I don't mean the "sick bird" posture, but just the usual way any particular bird carries him/her self. 

So, what health issues cause the pigeon to hold the tail in a way that is not the "pin?"


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

One pin tails don't have anything to do with health as far as I've seen. Sickly birds will hold their tail lower and their vent feathers fluffed, but not necessarily bushed out. I've had birds with one pins, two pins, and what I call raccoon tails - bushy and usually long. One of my wins was made with one of those raccoon birds too  So I don't put anything into the whole one-pin = good bird thing. Does it make the bird more streamline? Yeah. Does it mean the tail muscles are stronger? Maybe. But that's just one tiny piece of the puzzle. It takes a lot more than a tight tail to make a good bird.


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## shawn arnold (Nov 9, 2009)

Becky, have you ever seen a feather shaft with 2 feathers coming out the same shaft? I have a yellow roller that has one. I pulled it and it came back a double again. Shawn


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

That's very interesting. I've never seen anything like that before. Did they grow out to be normal, healthy feathers?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

dose the pintail make the bird better in anyway? i seen alot of people said their birds are pintail when they was selling them.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

blongboy said:


> dose the pintail make the bird better in anyway? i seen alot of people said their birds are pintail when they was selling them.


No not at all. As I said in the post with the pics that hen is my best young birds so far and she never had a pin tail and she's been right near the top of the race sheet 2 times already this season.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> One pin tails don't have anything to do with health as far as I've seen. Sickly birds will hold their tail lower and their vent feathers fluffed, but not necessarily bushed out.


 I've never seen a sick bird with a true pin tail they'll open it up even if just a lil bit. I aint saying that you can say a bird is sick because it's tail is a lil open but I am saying you can say a bird is pretty healthy and in good physical shape if it does have a pin tail.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

The guy in the middle of the pic used to have a pin tail. But he got lost from 47 miles and came back after a week with only one tail feather and they are just growing out now and he looks like hell. The BC hen in the bottom corner that you really cant see to well has a pin tail. She was 21th vs 314 birds from 164 miles last week and 12th vs 277 birds from 207 miles this week. Her full sister is the BB's mother and her half sister(same mother) is my 2 time winner from old birds.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> No not at all. As I said in the post with the pics that hen is my best young birds so far and she never had a pin tail and she's been right near the top of the race sheet 2 times already this season.


Maybe if she had a pin tail she'd be at the top instead of near the top!...

Having the pin tail really does help them in flight causing less drag than one without a pin tail if you want to get scientific with it. 

I myself perfer to have birds with pin tails when selecting. It's probably number 5 on my list of things to look for in a good bird. 

This is just my preference and in no way am I saying that a bird without a pin can't win races. I just feel that it's an important piece of the puzzle like becky stated. I just put more emphasis on it when it comes to my birds.


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## gogo10131 (Aug 17, 2010)

So having a pin tail doesn't make them a great bird its just a personal preference, just want to make sure i'm reading this right.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

As Henry said, it may be that when it comes to 2 racing pigeons of the same kind, health and instinct, the one with a pin tail has better chance to win than the one without it.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

You can see a real pin tailed pigeon at this website, but it's probably not the kind were expecting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TreronApicauda.jpg


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## gogo10131 (Aug 17, 2010)

now i know what a pin tail is. thanks for the replies


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## shawn arnold (Nov 9, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> That's very interesting. I've never seen anything like that before. Did they grow out to be normal, healthy feathers?


No they are half the width of a normal feather, but is 2 full featers in one pin. Shawn


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Having the pin tail really does help them in flight causing less drag than one without a pin tail if you want to get scientific with it.


 All the pigeons I've ever seen flying had their tails fanned out while in the air... so how does the way they "fold" them on the ground affect flight?

Granted that the "tight" folding of the "pin" tail when the pigeon is just hanging out could indicate good muscle tone, but I don't understand how it gives an aerodynamic advantage unless the ones with pin tails carry their tails differently in flight than birds whose tails fan a little at rest. 

(I am innocent of most scientific knowledge...)


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

That is so interesting.Does the same rule apply to doves as well?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Maybe if she had a pin tail she'd be at the top instead of near the top!...
> 
> Having the pin tail really does help them in flight causing less drag than one without a pin tail if you want to get scientific with it.
> 
> ...


I would think the width of the tail in flight would need to be variable. Too keep balance help with lift etc. Thinking that the tail would be together more for speed and apart for adjustments and slowing in the air. I looked at a bunch of pics of flying birds on google. The pics from under where it looks like the birds are flying top speed, the tail looks slightly open, say two pens wide. I am not convinced that the birds fly with all tail feathers tucked together, even at top speeds. 
I could see how more muscles in the tail area and general health could aid in manipulating the tail in flight. I would need to see pure data about one pin tail birds winning more races to convince me that it has anything to do with racing ability. My fattest tail bird breeds my best birds. And yes they have finished 1st in the pack. An the offspring don't have one pin tails. They are more like two pins.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think it is a Ganus term. Something to give birds without race records more value. His is the only pedigrees I see the term written on. I put it right up there with eye-sign.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

rfboyer said:


> All the pigeons I've ever seen flying had their tails fanned out while in the air... so how does the way they "fold" them on the ground affect flight?
> 
> Granted that the "tight" folding of the "pin" tail when the pigeon is just hanging out could indicate good muscle tone, but I don't understand how it gives an aerodynamic advantage unless the ones with pin tails carry their tails differently in flight than birds whose tails fan a little at rest.
> 
> (I am innocent of most scientific knowledge...)


Your right in that birds being lazy flying around the loft will show wide spread tail feathers. they do the same as they touch down on a landing board. 

But I've observed as cooper hawks tried chasing down some of my birds (and didnt catch a single one mind you) right in my own back yard. The birds tails were tight and single feather as they put on the afterburners and pulled away from the hawks. Not a single bird showed wide spread tail feathers.

Several years ago before I really started paying attention to such things, I observed as a 4 yr old hen was pulled right out of the sky by a cooper (very bad thing came out of my mouth) her tail was always about two feathers wide and while she could come home from every race I ever sent her too. She was always between and 1/2 hour to 2 hours late depending on the distance. 

It was an older flier back in the eighties that first told me to pay attention to the width of the tail. I thought sure thing just another tall tail. But after seeing one bird who was taken out of the sky and another group of birds a couple years later pull away like it was nothing. 

Well I'm no longer willing to say there is nothing to the theory! Your all free to make your own choices however.


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