# open wound need help please!



## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

Hello everyone, anyone....

Ok, it's not a pigeon, or even a dove, but this am. a wild quail came up
to my house with obvious trauma. It was limping and all it's tailfeathers 
were out. I could tell on one side under and around it's wing the 
pinfeathers were all ruffled, so anyway I was able to capture it,
and upon closer observation, under that wing is a lot of torn skin and
maybe even some flesh. 

I'm going to treat it with IM baytril, but I sure could use some advice
on how to treat the open wound itself. It's all wet looking.

The bird is adult and it's crop is full/packed, so it's eating good so far.
Any and all advice would be great.
jo


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Could you please post a picture of the wound?


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

Sure thing, let me grab the camera, and what do we use for upload here?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Oh boy...I don't know how to explain it to you...
I'll try...
when you post...click on advanced...scroll to the bottom of the page and you will see...manage attachments...click on that and maybe you can figure it out from there.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Or, if you just wanna' email 'em to somebody to take care of it, go with:

[email protected]

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Or you can email to me...
[email protected]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Or just click on the Gallery link at the top of the page and then upload.

Terry


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

ok, if this doen't work, I'll email it, thanks!

,,,, think I got it. wheew!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to flush/cleanse the wound with a sterile saline solution.
Do you have a wildlife rehabber near you?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi bajasol, and thanks for helping out this quail. Could you tell us your 
general whereabouts so that we can see if there is a rehabber near you?

Out of curiosity, how did you happen to have injectable Baytril on hand?

I'm in agreement w/Charis that in addition to an emergency course of antibiotics,
the wound should ever so gently be 'washed' or doused w/sterile saline solution.

Again, thanks for helping...

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's an interesting wound. It looks like it's been open long enough that it can't actually be stitched closed with any good results. As such, what seems to work the best in those cases is to keep the bird in a clean and warm environment through the healing process while managing the infection with an antibiotic. Baytril ain't the greatest for that specific kind but it's not a bad one. I'll round up a link to one that I did once that wasn't too different from that. They can take as long as a couple of months to completely heal when they're like that.

Pidgey


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

No rehabbers nearby. I have sterile saline, so I'll flush it, and then what? Any prep to put on?

I've read we don't want to put petroleum based products on the skin of birds, but then thats parrots. (maybe they're all the same) I have water soluable anti-fungal and other stuff, just let me know thanks.

feralpigeon... thank you all for being there. I have baytril because I've been
treating my parrot flock for 20 years. Just never any wounds, mostly bacterial
infections. I'm out 40 miles from Palm Springs. I've always purchased my baytril over the counter from vet supplies in Mexico. I treat at 7.5-10 mg/kg.
bid
thanks,
Jo


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a picture of one that I had like that:



















That wound looked much smaller in the picture, but essentially the entire leg down to the hip joint near the tail was cut open and laid out.

They kinda' have to heal from the inside out and you can tell on yours that it's been that way for awhile due to the coloration, especially at the edges.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Bajasol,

Please check out these links and see if there is a resource available to you 
within close proximity:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pigeon-resources-for-rescue-and-rehab-8817.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/board-certified-avian-vets-23746.html

Avian vets will frequently accept a bird in need of care if the bird is signed
over to them.

fp


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

Pidgey.. let me know what you used. I keep 8 different classes of meds
on hand since I run my own Culture and Sensitivity tests. No point in doing
all that and then not have the med of choice on hand. 

I could do a C&S on her wound, but sometimes like this I think you have to
shotgun _something_ in a hurry, don't you? This doesn't look good. 
Even doing my own it would take 12-48 hours to get the results. Besides,
my current culture plates are out of date. 

I'm so glad you won with the bird you helped. So often our efforts 
fail no matter how hard we try. Thanks for your help, and we just gotta
try anyway.

jo


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, pigeons are certainly one of the toughest of birds and can live through quite a bit. Don't know about quail. Anyhow, that wound has been that way for several days. I think I started out with an Enrofloxacin/Metronidazole combination and then gravitated to Cephalexin in time. Do you know a weight on the bird?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here are a couple of threads where I had birds with nasty wounds:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/rough-weekend-16964.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi bajasol, 

Do you know what kind of quail your rescue is?

fp


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

Pidgey, you're right, your patient looked an awful lot like mine. Thanks for posting the pic.

I cleaned out the wound and it's drying. the bird is resting comfortably. Wish the same were true for me. Anyway, I think I've done all I can do for tonight.
Tomorrow I'll follow up with the shot. How long did you treat that bird with whatever you gave it? thanks for the links..

I haven't put the bird on my scale, but it's normal weight for a 
gambil quail, and feels to be around 150-175 grams.

feralpigeon... yes, it's a female gambil quail aka california quail
also, I'm so far from a good avain vet that it became necessary for me
to learn some basic microbiology and treatment that my very good friend
an avain vet taught me. I would have lost many lives otherwise with
the distance I would have to travel.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

bajasol said:


> Pidgey, you're right, your patient looked an awful lot like mine. Thanks for posting the pic.
> 
> I cleaned out the wound and it's drying. the bird is resting comfortably. Wish the same were true for me. Anyway, I think I've done all I can do for tonight.
> Tomorrow I'll follow up with the shot. How long did you treat that bird with whatever you gave it? thanks for the links..
> ...


HI bajasol,

Again, thank you for taking this endangered/protected species in. Were you
able to have a look at the links that I posted regarding licensed care for injured and sick birds in your area? It's wonderful that you are poised to help
sick and injured birds in your area, though if there is someone within close
proximity that is licensed to help this bird, it may well be the best outcome for your bird's sake in terms of recovery potential.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can give it that same Enrofloxacin (Baytril) PO (orally) and you won't cause the muscle necrosis that injectable Baytril usually does. I'd just go with 20 milligrams of pure medicine (not the formulation) per kilogram of bird, once daily.

Keflex (Cephalexin) for Quail given orally goes at 35-50 milligrams per kilogram of bird a minimum of four (4) times per day (ugh!).

Metronidazole I'd hold at about 50 milligrams per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily.

The inside of the wound looks clean enough, actually. It'll slowly stick back together. 

Pidgey


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

feralpigeon... yes, I checked out the links you sent thank you so much.
Unfortunately there isn't anyone nearby w/in a hundred miles...or more.
But I appreciate your sending them.

Pidgey, are you suggesting using all 3 meds? You're right about the necrosis
but I always dilute my injections with inj. solution and it helps that situation
a lot. Also dividing it up at more than one injection site helps.
How long did you have to treat with your meds?

I don't know where I got this link, but it must have come off of one that you or someone else sent, and it's super!

http://www.worldwidewounds.org/2003/november/Cousquer/Avian-Wound-Management-Part-2.html# 

Night yall, I've had enough of today.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Cephalexin covers some anaerobes that Baytril doesn't get. So does Metronidazole. Does Metronidazole get the same ones that the Cephalexin gets? Don't know! In humans, you don't want to go over ten days with some Cephalosporins because the patient might get a "superinfection", so I try to limit the Keflex to only that long. It's possible to give all three at one time but I'd probably tend not to. I'd give the Baytril and Metronidazole for about 10 days and see how it goes, then switch to the Keflex unless the bird's acting sick.

Pidgey


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

Makes sense to me. When treating a wound that is new and hasn't had a chance to
infect yet, I usually tend to keep treatment to 3 days, unlike what I use for an
established bacteria. One is prevention, the other is cure. 

I'll keep a close eye on her to make sure she is heading in the right direction. So far so
good this am. Make her a bigger enclosure.

What did you keep your patient in during that long recovery?

jo


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

bajasol said:


> I keep 8 different classes of meds
> on hand since I run my own Culture and Sensitivity tests.


Jo, that's very neat that you do your own C+Ss. In addition to it being more convenient than having to run to the vet, I'm sure it saves you lots of $$$. Where do you buy the culture media?

Jennifer


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I thought you might be interested in readingf this article on managing open wounds in the wildlife casualty:

http://www.nwrc.com.au/forms/anne_fowler_1.pdf

Cynthia


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

cyro51... that was a terrific link, thank you. Good stuff easy to understand!
I especially liked this: 
_*Do what you can,
with what you have,
where you are*._
Sometimes we may not have all the answers, but sometimes we are the ones most willing to help.



> Jo, that's very neat that you do your own C+Ss. In addition to it being more convenient than having to run to the vet, I'm sure it saves you lots of $$$. Where do you buy the culture media?



Jenfer, I get my supplies from troybio.com they have super prices and throughout the years have been very helpful. Nice people to deal with and you are so right, doing your own really saves $$$. but more importantly you can get your results in a hurry. With birds, time is of the essence as we all know.

A fast moving bacteria like e-coli can come up on a culture plate in 12 hours and 12 hours later the sensitivity test can show the med. of choice. 

Tom Ricketts
VP Operations & Sales
Troy Biologicals, Inc.
1238 Rankin St
Troy, MI 48083

(800) 521-0445 (Toll)
(248) 585-9720 (Local)
(248)585-2490 (Fax)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It'll be a long haul but unless something really weird comes up, mostly it'll just be a boring recovery. Boring... is wonderful, by the way. I LOVE boring anymore. They actually heal pretty quickly, birds do, as I'm sure you know. Still, something like this must rebuild connective tissue from its deepest depths and work outward. I really can't tell from the pictures how near the leg it is, or exactly which tissues are involved. I sorta' wonder if the actual knee (Patella) is just to the left of your right thumbnail...

You can go here and study the drawings to help answer that question:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

> I really can't tell from the pictures how near the leg it is, or exactly which tissues are involved. I sorta' wonder if the actual knee (Patella) is just to the left of your right thumbnail...


I'm not sure exactly either, all's I know is that I tested it out today in my 
small bathroom and the thing takes off like the roadrunner. I don't think it
limps anymore but it was kinda hard to tell since it wanted to fly all over and
has no problem doing that. 

I almost turned it loose today when it's flock came up my hill where we live
and they were calling back and forth and especially a male that was probably
it's mate. I was heartbroken. Half of me wanted to let it go back and join the flock where it belongs, and the other half of me kept thinking about how any handicap could easily turn it into a hawk, dog or coyote snack. So I was sad and torn, just like the little quail.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, don't dare let her go until we're done with this a month or two down the road.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Gotta wait for the outcome before you make a decision regarding this
stuff.....Where is this guy frrom???







bajasol said:


> I'm not sure exactly either, all's I know is that I tested it out today in my
> small bathroom and the thing takes off like the roadrunner. I don't think it
> limps anymore but it was kinda hard to tell since it wanted to fly all over and
> has no problem doing that.
> ...


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## bajasol (Jul 4, 2008)

> Gotta wait for the outcome before you make a decision regarding this
> stuff.....Where is this guy frrom???


I know, I'm trying. She's from the deserts north of Palm Springs.


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