# George Schutt & BIRD FOOD w/TOXIC ingredients!



## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

Hi Everyone!

So, two things going on...

So, #1... 

As many of you know, I had to separate my doves, Chicken and Persnickety, because Chicken is dying from an inoperable cancerous tumor. He is still eating, but I know he won't be with us too much longer, unfortunately and we may have to put him to sleep soon. In the meantime, Persnickety is now all alone in her big cage. So, I contacted George Schutt about buying a dove (since I literally can't seem to find one closer than 300 miles away that needs rescuing). I've read a lot of positive posts about George.

George informed me that both Lafeber's food and Kaytee dove mix contain a preservative called Ethoxquin or "sodium selenate" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_selenate 

George said he has been seeing a lot of doves getting cancer from this, and these are the two foods I was feeding my doves!!!

So, everyone, just be aware of that!

Which leads me to #2....

Does anyone have a good recipe for homemade dove food/pellets or an alternative brand without these preservatives???

I prefer pellets to mixed food or mixed seeds because my doves are picky, toss out what they don't like and only eat the seeds they want, and I don't want them to end up with a vitamin deficiency.

THANK YOU in advance everyone!


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## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

I just googled "dove food recipes". Oh dear. Not what I was looking for....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I appreciate the information about, Ethoxquin. I didn't know.

Don't Google squab food recipes, either.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I feed mine the same thing I feed my pigeons, which right now is a mix of rock-n-rooster 5 grain "scratch" (whole dent corn, popcorn, milo, wheat, black oil sunflower) and rock-n-rooster growth booster pellets which is 20% protien and contains PrimaLac. Half and half. They eat it all, even the big corn. Well, some do, and some don't. Once they find out they can eat it they don't mind haha. Gotta figure, wild doves are just as small and they swallow corn in the fields like its going out of style.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

So, what is a toxic dose of this ingredient for, say, a 220 gram dove?


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Thank you for the infomation.


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## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

WAIT...hold up! I spelled the name of the ingredient wrong: sodium selenITE (NOT sodium seleNATE).

It is still listed as toxic, though. It is toxic to humans at 1.4-3.0 mg of selenium per day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_selenite 

The breeder said he is feeding his doves Mazuri exotic bird feed....

Better safe than sorry! I am going to go with the breeders recommendation: http://www.mazuri.com/mazuriexoticgamebirdmaintenance.aspx the pellets look bigger than what my doves like to eat, but I suppose I can always crush them with a mortar and pestle if they don't like them so big.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Be careful with Mazuri feed too. Their waterfowl feed was recalled this year after killing a lot of pet ducks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you give them seed, they will probably learn to eat all of it, if that is all they get. Use a feeder that they can't throw it around, and if they are hungry, they will learn to try different seeds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I used Harrison's high potency fine organic food, they loved it and so well on it. Here is a link.
http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/High-Potency-Fine/products/13/


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## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

Mary, Yes, I did hear about the recall. George the breeder looked into it and said the Vitamin A levels were off but that has since been corrected.

This is another birdfood that the breeder recommended: 

http://www.roudybush.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=orders.group&group=premium

Jay, I tried all different ways to feed them, even with a feeder, they spit out the seeds they didn't like. When they finished eating what they liked, they would find a way to poop on the feeder where the seeds come out so I'd be forced to clean and change it! These are some city smart doves, I think! They have me trained good!

Spirit wings, Thanks for the link!!!!


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## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

I actually ended up ordering the roudybush food. I hope the doves like it!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope so too. You'll have to let us know.


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## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

I feed my Ringneck Doves Poulin Poultry Grower/Finisher Crumblet. I checked the ingredients...it does not contain Ethoxquin...but it does contain Sodium Selenite...most feeds do. It is salt.

Both Mazuri Exotic Gamebird Maintenance and Roudybush Daily Maintenance Diet also contain Sodium Selenite...

*Mazurie Exotic Gamebird Maintenance Ingredients*
Ground corn, wheat middlings, ground wheat, dehulled soybean meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, fish meal (menhaden), calcium carbonate, soybean oil, salt, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), mixed tocopherols (a preservative), dl-methionine, manganous oxide, vitamin A acetate, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (natural source vitamin E), choline chloride, zinc oxide, niacin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (vitamin K), vitamin B12 supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, calcium iodate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, *sodium selenite*, biotin.
http://www.mazuri.com/mazuriexoticgamebirdmaintenance.aspx

*Rodybush Daily Maintenance Diet Ingredients*
Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Soy Meal, Soy Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, DL-Methionine, L-Arginine, Niacin, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (source of Vitamin E), Ascorbic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Yucca shidigera Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Dried Yeast, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Cyanocobalamin (source of Vitamin B12), *Sodium Selenite* (on Calcium Carbonate), Propionic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Tartaric Acid, and Natural Apple Flavoring.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5059+5911+8376&pcatid=8376


Dawn


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Sodium chloride is what we commonly call salt. Sodium selenite is a salt, but what (so I read) is called Selenium, which is approved for animal feeds. This is in Wikipedia:

"Selenium is toxic in high concentrations. The chronic toxic dose for *human beings* is about 2.4 to 3 milligrams of selenium per day"


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## LuaMoon (Feb 22, 2012)

THANKS FOR THE CLEAR UP! 

I wasn't sure if that was really toxic (the sodium selenite), (but if it's toxic to humans, wouldn't it be toxic to birds)? I guess if it's in ALL those foods, though, what are you going to do about it...But, most likely I am just mistaken!

I didn't see Ethoxyuin listed as an ingredient in the Lafeber's, to be honest, but it was the breeder who had said he has been checking with the companies (LaFeber's and Kaytee) to find out what kinds of fertilizers and preservatives they use, and had found out that they did use Ethoxyquin (there is actually a discussion of it at the lafeber's website where lafebers says ethoxyquin is "safe"). 

I wonder if they changed their ingredients, as they now list "mixed tocopherols" as the preservative, which is supposedly a form of Vitamin E (unless "mixed" means they also use Ethoxyquin).

Anyway, the breeder had been going by what he is seeing with regards to a connection of a lot of doves getting cancer and eating certain foods with certain preservatives. I figure better safe than sorry, as those are the foods I was feeding my doves.

AND THANKS FOR THE CLEAR UP ON THE SELENITE! Sorry for the misinformation, guys!

Anyway, I did go ahead and order the Roudybush. And my new female dove will arrive on Tuesday...


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

LuaMoon said:


> THANKS FOR THE CLEAR UP!
> 
> I wasn't sure if that was really toxic (the sodium selenite), (but if it's toxic to humans, wouldn't it be toxic to birds)? I guess if it's in ALL those foods, though, what are you going to do about it...But, most likely I am just mistaken!


Well, it could be toxic if they get too much of it, like plenty of other things (which applies to us, too  ). If one has a concern about levels of any ingredient in stuff for pigeons, check labels, check manufacturer info, check FDA reports ... it's probably there if we look enough.


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