# Found Injured Pigeon - has mites (?) and yellow poop



## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello:

I found an injured pigeon on the way to work 5 days ago. It doesn't look like it has any injuries except for a hurt eye - it was shut and had a thin edge of blood on it when I found him or her (Bert/Bertie). I was able to walk up and pick it up and put it into my bag when I found it. I'm not sure if it had just crashed into a wall and was stunned, or whether it had been there for a while and was weak. 

Since then, I have kept it in a box at home indoors. It was not eating or drinking at first that I am aware of, so I took measures to try and feed it. I bought some vitamin-enriched bird seed with some oyster grit, and it has been eating from a spoon. It didn't want to eat by itself from the bowl. It also drinks from a spoon. I have to show these things to its eye and touch its beak with it before it will eat it. His uninjured eye can see very well, but his hurt eye is usually shut, although it can open (but not fully). It looks red, but the eye inside is still shiny and round. 

Bertie looks like a young pigeon with a slightly large cere. It does not have any yellow feathers on it's body, but there are some unopened tiny feathers around its cere.

I gave it 3 drops of apple cider vinegar in its water yesterday and some food. It's poop, which was watery with small dark/bright green poop and white in it before, has now changed. It now has yellow in it where the white used to be. Should I stop giving it the apple cider vinegar? 

Also, the bird tends to puff up with it's head sitting on it's shoulders, not stretched out. It doesn't look healthy to me. 

I picked it up today and discovered long, brown insects on my shirt afterwards. Are these mites? What should I do about them? I put Bertie in a large sink with about 1-2 inches of water, but he doesn't want to bathe in it. He just looks scared and stands in the corner. 

Any advice on what to do would be great. All the local vets refuse to treat wild birds. I considered bringing Bertie to the wildlife rescue, but they have put down all the birds I brought to them in the past.

Thank you, 
Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie, 


If there is a friendly Avian Vet, or experienced re-habber you could go see, please consider to do so a.s.a.p.


From your description, if it was me, I would...

Get some 'Neosporin' ( almost any store of any kind carries it) and putting a small dab on the end of a Q-Tip, gently 'roll' the Q-Tip to deposit the medicine on the Eye lid area...

Treat the Bird for Canker/Trichomoniasis, for which various medicines are available through Vets or Pigeon Supply or other venues...

'Metronidazole' being one well suited to the young or infirm...

Make a Gallon of Apple Cider Vinegar Water, useing the 'raw' kind one gets at health Food stores. Use three Tablespoons of it to a Gallon of good cold Water...and use it for his drinking water by allowing him a small flat bottomed bowl, which is at least an inch and a quarter deep, so he can immerse his Beak when drinking...

Keep him warm so he himself IS definitely 'warm', for which a standard electric Heating Pad is very good...

Set it to 'medium' and have a towell over it, so when you press your wrist underside and hold it against the towell, it just feels 'nice' and a little warmer than your own body temp...

If it feels too 'hot', add a second towell or adjust however so...

Set it up so he can be on it or off it as he likes.


If you do not have a cage, improvise something better than a 'box', or, go to some Thrift Stores and look for a Cage of some kind...drape the Cage then on three sides with some cloth...and keep it out of any Air Conditioning drafts...place it sopmewhere around shoulder high or close to your own eye level.

If you have small whole Seeds, like Canary or Finch Seed, gently guide his Beak into a shot glass full of them, keeping your finger tips gently against the side of his Beak...and he will lkely 'gobble' the Seeds nicely, and soon be pecking them also...

He probably has Canker, which may or may not show as little yellow 'lumps' of cottage-cheese-looking stuff in his throat...

He may also have other illness of some kind...and if you can treat for Canker, then see what else goes on from there.

If you can get to an able Avian Vet, bring some freshest poops wrapped in handiwrap or something, and have a fecal analysis done...

Where do you live?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hi Phil:

Thanks for your reply. I have been reading the forums a lot and your name comes up a lot. You are a very compassionate person, and I admire all your efforts to care for the birds that you have come across. 

I am located in Port Moody, Canada. I have noted that there are few posts from fellow Canadians. 

I will try to find some treatment for Cankers, but I am not sure where to get it from. I'm not sure that the local vets will dispense it to me, but I will call them and see what they say. 

I'm am already using apple cider vinegar in his water. Do you think 3 drops in a small water bowl is equivalent to the mixture you mentioned? I'm not sure how much a gallon of water is. 

I do not have a heating pad, but I do have microwavable heating pads. I will heat one up, wrap it in a towel and put it in the box with the little guy. 

Do you know what I should do about the bugs? They are very flat, brown, skinny, and long. The long stomach area of the bugs looks see-thru in the middle. 

Thanks again for your response, 
Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie, 


Maybe others here can post some possible Vets in your area, who are known to be sympathetic to Pigeons.

Make sure, if you can see a Vet, to let them know you are caring for this Bird and intend to see it through, and that you have people guiding and suporting you...


The 'bugs' you describe do not sound like anything I have ever seen.

But if you can remove them useing your finger tips, just do that for now, pending other regimens...

An Imperial Gallon, with three Tablespoons and a dab more, would be close enough...

Otheriwse, maybe say one slightly scant Tablespoon to a Litre of Water would likely be fine...it is forgiving...

A Gallon is about 3-3/4 Litres, so, one Litre is pretty near a Quart.

I am so sorry Canada did not stay with Imperial Measures...or at least emulate the United states Weights and Measures.



But 3 drops in a small bowl, is too vague for me, and besides, you will be having him drink this for a couple weeks anyway, so may as well mix up a decent batch.

'Dimetridazole' is available at various Tropical Fish stores, under the name of 'Fish-zole' I believe, and if you can get some, we can see about determining the dosage...

Farm or Feed Stores sometimes carry various anti-trichomonal medicines for small Farm Livestock and Poultry use, and 'Dimetridazole', or trade-name 'Emtryl', used to be one such which came in small packets for making 100 Gallons of mix, for treating 'Black Head' in Turkeys, so of course you would not use much of it, but it did not cost much, either.

Anyway, from your description, 'Canker', or some order of Trichomoniasis, would seem like a very probable candidate here...and especially in Young Birds, or when they are run down, should be treated as soon as possible if the Bird is to survive.

Thrift Stores, if you have them in your area, second hand stores that is, of various Charitys...usually have both used Cages of various kinds, cheap bulk Towells, and also used electric Heating Pads, very inexpensively, so check them out if you can, today.

Special 'EYE' Medicine, as a topical antibiotic 'goo', usually comes in a tinty tube and is moderately expensive, and pften to be had only by perscription.

The ingredients are exactly the same as 'Neosporin'...and Neosporin is inexpensive and available anywhere, it is simply made to less technically exact standards of purity then the expensive hard-to-get stuff...

I would get some today and apply as I mentions to his Eye lid area, to stave off any infections which may be starting there, as well as to soothe whatever the injury may be.


If his little Butt is soiled with poops sticking in the feathers, run warm water in the bathroom sink with the stopper part way in so the water is a few inches deep and replenishing itself, and hold him in the sink then, in his normal attitude so you can wash his bottom from below with your finger tips and get it all nice and clean there...but without getting the rest of him wet, if possible...

Anyway, Canker/trichomoniasis, needs it own kinds of meds...so, maybe call around to various Vets in your area and schmmose them if you can for a free exam and or some meds.

Any Pigeon supply place, if there is one near you, would have them...

As would any Poultry Supply place, if you are in a more agrarian region...


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello Phil!

I tried to feed Bert from a shot glass and he has taken well to it. It is easier for him to pick up and not drop the seeds in the glass. I think he eats more at a time now. I will keep feeding him from the shot glass throughout the day and make sure that he eats a lot. I'm so glad that he's eating. I've been so worried that he'd starve to death. 

I also heated up the microwavable heat pad, and he really likes that too. I haven't seen him sit down at all since I've brought him home, but he's sitting down on the heat pack right now. I have just now noticed that one of his outer toes are crooked. I think it must have been broken in his initial injury - probably flying into a wall or glass. I found him at a skytrain station where there is a lot of glass, and I figure it was an easy mistake. I have been watching the birds around there and I think that I saw his family yesterday. There were 2 older birds sitting near the track and a younger bird that looks a lot like Bertie walking around them. The young one was walking around randomly pecking the floor. I think he's just learning to eat from the floor and likes it a lot. I think that young one is Bertie's sibling. I will bring Bertie back to the skytrain station when he is well so that he can reunite with his family. 

Right now, Bertie takes great interest in any birds that he sees fly by in the sky. The box that he's in has a removable lid that I keep slightly off. I have also cut windows into the lid so that he has light and can see what goes on around him. For the most part, he stays in the box whether the lid is on or off. I tried slowly pouring him out of the box once, and he fought to stay in. I think he feels safe there. I have considered buying a large used cage for him, but I hope to return him to his family as soon as he's eating well and his eye opens up normally again. 

I live in the city and there are no poultry or pigeon farms anywhere (or allowed even). I will check the tropical food store for fish-zole in case the local vets refuse to sell me some metronidazole.

Thanks, 
Marie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and welcome to Pigeon Talk

Thank you for helping this needy bird.

Do you have a health food store nearby? Perhaps you can get a bottle of Sovereign Silver colloidal silver there. You can put a drop of that in the eye and usually see a remarkable improvement as it is a remarkable anti-infectant, until you can get to avian vet or rehabber.

You should also try to get some avian probiotics or human grade from the health food store (in the refrigerator section). The probiotics will help crowd out any bad bacteria that is in the gut and provide healthy intestinal flora. You can put some probiotic powder in the seed and get it to stick with a little olive oil, or mix in the water. 

You can also administer garlic in the water for building the immune system when you don't put the ACV in it.

Please check the links for possible resource in your area. tThese products do help alot, but there is no substitute for finding good avian/rehab care when needed.:

http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactI.htm


You can get a lice and mite spray from a pet store for parakeets and other small birds. It will work fine for pigeons on the lice you described.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Marie,

Sounds like you are getting good advice.

About the bugs, have a look at this link:

http://darwin.zoology.gla.ac.uk/~vsmith/index_gal.html

If you go down to the Common Bird Lice heading have a look at Columbicola Columbae and see if this is a match. I have found these on a number of pigeons I have helped over the years. I will let the others offer further advice on treatment options.

Good luck with this bird from a fellow Canadian,

Ron


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello:

After a day of feeding Bertie from the shot glass every few hours and giving him a heat pack to sit on and beside, he now has nice, neat raisin sized poops. The odd creamy yellow in the poop is also becoming more white again. Earlier in the day, his watery green poops with large creamy yellow/orange portions became less watery and less shiny green. Then they lost the whitish portion altogether and were just solid strips of green in a little fluid. Now they are neat, raisin sized poops. They are still green, but there is an occasional brown one. I am quite pleased. I am hoping that his own immune system is starting to fix it's own problems now that he's eating again. He is also more alert. 

I have called the fish stores around and they do not carry fish-zole. I have been told that I will only be able to get canker medicine through the vet. As I cannot acquire medication for Bertie any other way, and I am concerned about his eye and broken toe, I will take him to the wildlife rescue tomorrow. I will make sure to let them know that I do not want him to be put down. 

His hurt eye was able to open almost fully just now, but the upper eyelid looks bruised. There does not appear to be a wound anywhere. I think that he will heal up just fine (fingers crossed). 

Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie,


Glad to hear it goes well with him...!

Canker or other Trichomona infections, whether with visible signs or not, are common in my part of the world, so I treat for it at the slightest hint of symptom, and here, I had concluded that any 'yellow' of their urates, is a plenty good reason for me to begin treatment.

The yellow can occur for other reasons or other problems, but it does happen, that the Metronidazole especially is a very good immune stimulant, for their intestines especially, which will benifit them even if they do not in fact have a clinical Trichomona infection/infestation.

If there are any 'Pigeon People' or Racers or Fanciers or other clubs related to Pigeons, or even to other kinds of Birds, you might see if they or their members would provide you with some meds.

Meds of course are readily available my Mail, but there is a time lag in getting them.

Keep him on the ACV-Water of course...for another week or so anyway...


Best wishes you two!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Today I took Bertie to the Wildlife Rescue. The folks there seemed very knowledgeable and assured me that there was a very good chance that Bertie would be okay since pigeons are quite hardy and his injuries seem minor. I asked about the eye injury and she said she would start him on some antibiotics for it. I was really relieved to hear that. If Bertie ends up being well enough to set free again, I will be more likely to bring future rescues to them. The only downside is that, once I give them an animal, I cannot get it back. She said that once they determine that an animal is not well enough to return to the wild, there is no turning back - they will not give it back to me to care for. I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bertie will heal well and be fit for release.

The house seems very quiet now that Bertie is gone, and I can't help but keep wondering how he is doing. I wanted to keep him for a bit longer so that I could spray him for the chewing lice (Thanks, Ron, for the link), but I think that he is in better hands now. 

Although I miss Bert a lot, it was a blessing to care for him this past week. I hope that he will heal well and fast. Thank you everyone for your advice and support.

Cheers, 
Marie


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Marie, and for getting Bertie to where any needed medical attention can be readily had. I'll bet he will be just fine and will soon be able to be flying free with his buddies.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yup...

Good going Marie...!

Glad you and he did so well...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

*Poor Bert!*

Sigh...

So the Wildlife Rescue called me back and said that they put Bert down. They gave him anti-biotics for 5 days and didn't see any improvement. They think he will be blind in the injured eye. 

I feel so bad for Bert. I had really hoped that they would be able to help him. I now realize that the Wildlife Rescue only has a limited budget. They can only afford to rehabilitate those birds with the best chance for normal, wild survival. Poor Bert just didn't make the list. 

On the flipside, I found another baby pigeon. This one is even younger than Bert, and it's very dark coloured and scrawny. Very cute litte bugger, and quite alert! He was walking around the skytrain station and didn't seem to want to fly. He was really dirty with bits of bird poop all over him, and he had huge poop-and-feather balls stuck to his toes so he couldn't walk properly. 

I took him home and gave him a bath. It took a long time for the dried poop-and-feather balls to finally come off. I also washed all the poop off his body. Then I blow-dryed him on a low setting, using my hand to gauge the heat. He seemed to really like the blow drying. 

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the little guy so I'll give him a day or two to eat and drink at my place and then bring him back to the station. I'm not sure why he was so dirty. Any ideas?

Cheers, 
Marie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry they put the bird to sleep, did you know this was a possiblity when you dropped him off, when you signed him over? Did they tell you that this would happen if they couldn't rehabilitate him?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Marie,

Sorry to hear about Bert. Your new little guy may need a little more looking after than just a few days at your place and then back to the station. Could you post some more information about him, size, eating drinking on his own, what do his droppings look like, any yellow/cheesy looking growths in his mouth or throat, is he emaciated? Is a picture possible? Could go please go here to calculate how old this bird is:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Thanks for rescuing him and good luck,

Ron


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

*The New Guy*

Hello:

Thanks for your replies. 

I knew that there was a possibility that they would put Bert down when I took him to the Wildlife Rescue, but I couldn't get any anti-biotics for him, and I think he needed them. I asked them when I brought him there what his chances were for being returned to the wild and they said the chances ere very good and he would most likely recover. That's the only reason why I let him go. I was very, very upset when I found out that they put him down.

The new guy looks to be about 23 days old. He has a very small-looking head right now since his neck is not fully feathered yet, but his wings look pretty big on him. His tail looks rather short to me (the whole back side of him looks kinda short right now). He still has some half pin feathers underneath him. 

I saw him peck and pick up food at the station, but I haven't seen him eat any seeds yet although he does peck at them. I think he is able to eat by himself, but I will keep an eye on it. 

I didn't see any yellow growths of any sort on him, and don't think he has canker. I have added a little Apple Cider Vinegar to his water.

His poop is very wet. It is normal white, and brown (almost light brown). 

Thanks, 
Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie, 


Yahhhh...

Likely, he will need rather more than a few days at your place, before being released...he might have quite a bit more growing-up to do before hand, to be able to fend for himself on his own, so...figure to provide Seeds and nice Water ( or even ACV-Water) and let him free fly in your place for a couple weeks. do not keep this one in-a-box or cage.

I am sorry to hear about Bert.

One has to be very careful about whom one entrusts these Birds to...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

The new pigeon is doing well. He can eat very well on his own and eats seeds ravenously until he almost chokes on them. Now that he's realized that there is an unlimited supply of food, he is very picky and uses his beak to whip less-tasty seeds out of the way. As a result, the floor is always covered in colorful seeds. (I think he doesn't like some of the colored ones.) 

I have given him water with ACV, and he drinks well by himself. It was very cute when he was first considering the water bowl. He was eating seeds non-stop for a long time and I noticed that he was getting them caught in his mouth and I thought he should drink. I took a spoon, scooped up some water from his bowl, and slowly poured it back in so that he could both see and hear the water fall. He watched the whole process and then looked at me and made a sound that sounded a lot like he was asking me a question. I calmly assured him it was was water and that it was okay to come over and drink it. Then he slowly pecked seeds from the floor towards the water bowl, looked at me again, and drank some water. 

I'm not home to watch him during the day, so I cannot let him fly around free in the daytime. When I come home from work, I clean his box and let him do as he pleases. 

Right now, he doesn't fly. He climbs onto his seed bowl, spills seeds everywhere, and attempts to jump his way to the box edge. When he finally gets to the box edge, he just sits there for hours. Doesn't go anywhere at all except to clumbsily turn around and jump back in the box. I figure that he'll slowly work his way farther from the box and then fly. 

Now that he's eating a lot, his poops are no longer runny. He seems quite healthy and more of his feathers are growing in. He makes scared sounds initially if I go to pick him up , but he doesn't mind me touching him when he's perched on the box edge. He stretches his wings constantly.

I was hoping to keep him until Sunday, but my parents are adamant that he's gone by Saturday. That only gives me until tomorrow! This is not enough time at all, so I hope he'll eat lots today and go farther from his box. I need him to be strong enough to fly back to his nest at the station which is on the top of a wall. I wish my family was more understanding about my pigeon rescues, but they are not at all. 

Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie,


Glad to hear it goes well...!

You can also provide Seeds in a small tray so they do not get so scattered, and just offer the Tray a few times a day.


Pigeons of this one's age tend to stay close to whatever they decide their Nest area is.

Untill they can fly well enough to seek out food, they are fed by their parents.

Yours, of course, has learned now to self feed and to drink, so long as you are provideing Seeds and Water, but if you release them before they can really fly well, you are simply turning them loose to starve to death and or to be killed by a Car or Cat or Dog.

Please appreciate that this young Pigeon needs two or even three weeks yet to develope and grow enough to be able to fly well enough to fend for itself in the World.

If you are not allowed to keep them, please find someone you can turn them over to, so they can finish growing up in a safe environment, so they can be released at the appropriate stage of developement.


In Nature, they tend to leave the Nest at around 32 days old or so, but this does NOT mean they are ready to fend for themselves, since they are still looked after and fed by their Parents for some time, as they learn to peck and drink on their own, and are also guided to be socialized to other Pigeons by their parents.

Neophyte self sufficiency may not really happen till 40 something days of age.

Your Bird is likely around 22 days old or so if I remember right.

Find someone who has Pigeons, or who does rehab Work and has Pigeons, so this one can both become socialized to other Pigeons, as well as have the time he needs to develop enough to be released.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello:

Thanks for writing back. 

I am taking what you say to heart about it being too young to be set free. I will do my best to persuade my family to let it stay for longer. 

In the meantime, I will try to encourage the little guy to fly. In the past when I have raised 2 baby pigeons, we placed them on a large plastic lid and would lower the lid (not abruptly) to encourage wing flapping. This is actually how they first took flight (from the lid to the balconey rail). Prior to that, they just walked around.

Out of curiosity, is there a site where I can identify pigeon varieties. This one is so dark coloured that it looks like a crow baby. I'm just curious what kind it is and whether the colour will change. 

Thanks, 
Marie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Marie, 


He will develop the muscles and interest for flying, at his own Natural pace...so long as he is not confined or restrained from doing so.

Trying to encourage them to Fly is not only un-necessary, but probably not a good idea for several reasons.

Just let him grow and develop at his own pace, and all will be fine.

It is not that they need to 'learn' to fly, it is that their neurology and muscles and general global developement ingenously proceeds to include flying...

Take care of them, keep them safe, provide good food and Water...let them have rooom to do what they want, and leave the rest up to them.


Now, too, they DO need to be socialized to their feral others...if you dop not do this, it will screw them up and bode badly for their survival once released.


You need to start bring them NOW, before they can fly, but NOW that they can "peck" and self feed...you need to start bringing them to some place where there are feral/wild Pigeons, and you put out some Seeds and let your little one peck and eat with the others...

It may take a few rounds for them to overcome their shyness, and YOU stay close to keep an eye on them and to encourage them...

Do this NOW and do it often...

Once your little one is comfortable pecking with the feral-wild others, they will have acquired what they need...and keep doing this untill yours is starting to fly well enough to get away from you, then stop, since you do not want them pre-maturely self-releasing...

This way, when you do release them later, you can release them TO this wild/feral bunch, and it will already be familiar and your Bird will not be intimidated or shy about it, and in fact, will self-release if you wait untill they are ready, which will be around 40 to 45 days of age...

You must do this in this way, and start now, or the Bird will have a very bad time of it later.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello:

Well the new guy - his name is Sticky - is now living on my balconey. During the day, he has free reign of the balconey and chooses to sun tan on the front edge behind the rail. In the evening, I have to catch him and put him back in the box. There is food and water there, so he just eats and sleeps there. I also leave a bowl of water out on the balconey so he can have water all the time. 

I have been watching him a lot, and he doesn't fly much except to and from the box and the balconey floor. Mostly, he just sits and watches things from the balconey. I have noticed one odd thing about him though, and that is that he doesn't sit upright - he leans to one side or the other. I'm not really sure why. I saw him stand on one foot a little earlier, so I am watching to see if one leg is injured. He seems to walk fine though so I'm not sure why he likes to lean to one side. He sits upright and then slowly leans to one side with his wing kind of propped up. Any ideas? 

Also, his poop has a lot of slightly slimey water content, is that normal? I know he's eating less now that he's not cooped up in his box since he mostly just eats at night now. 

Thanks, 
Marie


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

I have started a new thread for this new pigeon.


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