# Lots of questions,,, I know nothing about pigeons



## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Hello. I just joined and Ive already foung lots of cool stuff! I have a lot of questions, it looks like I found the right place.
My husband brought home a juvenile pigeon that took up with him at work. I have never been a bird fan, but this little guy stole my heart, I've been won over. We named him Walter, but it occurs to me he may be a she. How do we tell? I noticed some mites? on him today and we got some spray for him (hes mad at us now). These are very small and long, they kinda burrowed into his feathers and stuck out thier butts and wiggled then disappeared again. Any idea what they are and if they will transfer to my hair or my cats? My mother in law said thier poop can be deadly. What is this and how do I know if he has it? I guess thats enough for now, thanks in advance!


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*There is alot to learn*



onecoolmama said:


> Hello. I just joined and Ive already foung lots of cool stuff! I have a lot of questions, it looks like I found the right place.
> My husband brought home a juvenile pigeon that took up with him at work. I have never been a bird fan, but this little guy stole my heart, I've been won over. We named him Walter, but it occurs to me he may be a she. How do we tell? I noticed some mites? on him today and we got some spray for him (hes mad at us now). These are very small and long, they kinda burrowed into his feathers and stuck out thier butts and wiggled then disappeared again. Any idea what they are and if they will transfer to my hair or my cats? My mother in law said thier poop can be deadly. What is this and how do I know if he has it? I guess thats enough for now, thanks in advance!


If the bird is a juvenile, it is pretty hard to sex. How do you know it's a juvenile?

Sounds like it has pigeon lice, it is extremely rare for them to leave the bird. The spray may or may not work. I'm not sure what does anymore, I haven't seen them in a long time. There used to be some powders that you would sprinkle under the wings and it would take care of them. I don't know if you can even buy them anymore but diatomaceous earth is also supposed to work. You have to make sure that you get the right kind, probably from a pigeon supply place such as Foys (online) or maybe a pet store. 

Ah, the old fear of pigeon poop. My neighbor is certain that pigeons flying over his house could poop on it and make him sick. This is as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard but is obviously a very common misconception. Pigeon manure can grow a mold and the dust from this mold can give a person Histoplasmosis. If anyone should have this disease, I should as I have been around thousands of pigeons over the years for most of my life. It is the only disease that I know of that is something that we can get from them. If I'm wrong, someone here will surely correct me.

The latest that I heard about Histoplasmosis was that people are getting it from goose poop as the geese are moving into the cities everywhere. I heard this from a senior medical student who lives in Rochester MN. He bought pigeons from me so he obviously isn't worried about it with pigeons. Whether there is any validity to his claim about Histoplasmosis and goose droppings, I'm not sure but he is nearly a doctor and I'm not.

Bill


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Hey Bill, thanks for the info. Walter is kinda small and cheeps or squeeks, he also tries to "eat" from your fingers. He is extreemly affectionate. His eyes are green and he doesnt fly much at all. last weekend he had the vestiages of baby featherson his head, but the rest of his feathers are fully developed. I guess he just acts like a baby, hes needy I dont know how to post a pic or Id do that and save me some typing lol.
He lives on my porch right now, but he cant do that forever. I'd like to build him something outside so he can come and go as he wishes. Do we need to keep him for a period of time to be able to set him free and him come back? We also have cats and dogs I dont know how safe of an environment this really is.
Are there some standard immunizations for him (that wont break the bank)? 
Would seven dust help or hurt for the bird lice?
Jenn


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*He's begging for food*



onecoolmama said:


> Hey Bill, thanks for the info. Walter is kinda small and cheeps or squeeks, he also tries to "eat" from your fingers. He is extreemly affectionate. His eyes are green and he doesnt fly much at all. last weekend he had the vestiages of baby featherson his head, but the rest of his feathers are fully developed. I guess he just acts like a baby, hes needy I dont know how to post a pic or Id do that and save me some typing lol.
> He lives on my porch right now, but he cant do that forever. I'd like to build him something outside so he can come and go as he wishes. Do we need to keep him for a period of time to be able to set him free and him come back? We also have cats and dogs I dont know how safe of an environment this really is.
> Are there some standard immunizations for him (that wont break the bank)?
> Would seven dust help or hurt for the bird lice?
> Jenn


Nibbling at your fingers suggests that he needs to be fed. Does he eat on his own? From your description, he still had some down on his head when you got him which goes away around a month old or so which is when they will start to eat on their own.

He needs quite a few different things, including fresh water every day, a good diet, preferably pigeon feed and he needs grit, which is minerals and pebbles that they eat to aid in the digestion of the hard seeds that they eat, besides providing their bodies with essential minerals.

Apparently, you've had him for alittle while and he must be eating. They will beg their parents for food even after they have learned to eat and sometimes they will give in and feed them. Eventually, they will drive them away as they likely have new young to care for or will very soon.

I don't remember how dangerous seven dust is. I'm sure it would kill the lice but I'm not sure how safe it is for the pigeon. Unless he is completely covered in them, they won't do too much damage and you have time to find something better. Are the lice just under the wings or do you see them elsewhere?

There are some standard immunizations but to buy them for one bird might get alittle pricey. Where do you live? Some problems are more prevalent in one area than others. I'd guess that the lice and probably worms are his most likely problems and neither are normally life threatening. They can be but he sounds to be in pretty normal health.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Mary...there is a lot of helpful information archived and on in our resource section. Of course we're happy to answer questions but you just might do some poking around this site and educate yourself. I guarantee you will have a whole experience and learn a lot.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> If the bird is a juvenile, it is pretty hard to sex. How do you know it's a juvenile?
> 
> Sounds like it has pigeon lice, it is extremely rare for them to leave the bird. The spray may or may not work. I'm not sure what does anymore, I haven't seen them in a long time. There used to be some powders that you would sprinkle under the wings and it would take care of them. I don't know if you can even buy them anymore but diatomaceous earth is also supposed to work. *You have to make sure that you get the right kind, probably from a pigeon supply place such as Foys (online) or maybe a pet store. *
> 
> ...


We just got some today from Lowes. As long as you don't get the kind that you apparently put in swimming pools? You'll find the right kind in with the fertilizers/bug killers. It works well, and so does Sevin dust (although d. earth is harmless enough to put with food in storage, while sevin you don't want to get in the mouth/face).


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Welcome to Pigeon Talk , Jenn.  

If your new found friend is squeaking & nibbling at your fingers, you have a youngster. 

Any chance of posting a picture? That will tell us a lot.  

As far as the mites, you can purchase a canister of Sevin Dust Powder from any local garden dept. On adults, I cover their heads completely so as not to get any of the dust in their face then dust the rest of the body, making sure you get under the wings. 
I'm not sure, though, if this should be used on youngsters. Others will be along to assist.

Cindy


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Well, I live in Central NC. Walter has a very healthy appetite, hes eating wild bird seed now, he loves the round white seeds. I think he just hopes we will regurgitate something for him, lol. Where can I get grit for him?
I tried drag'n'drop (the only method I know for moving pics), but I'll figure that out and post a pic tomorrow so ya'll can see our boy(?) When Walter is older how can we sex him to see if we named him appropriately?
Seems like most folks have several birds, I only want one (before Walter I didnt really like birds). Will he be ok with just us people in his flock or does he need other birds to be happy?


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Thank ya'll so much for all the info, I gotta go pack lunches for the kiddos. I'll check back tomorrow to learn more, and I'll try to post a pic. Thanks again, Jenn


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## kippermom (Jan 11, 2006)

I cannot tell if you intend to have him fly free then hope he returns...I do not fly mine but I think a single pigeon may be easier prey for predators. Generally I think pigeons prefer company or else YOU will end up being his/her mate...you might check out the pet pigeon section of this site, however, because there are lots of folks who keep just one or two as indoor pets and it seems to work out great for everyone! Welcome and enjoy!


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> If the bird is a juvenile, it is pretty hard to sex. How do you know it's a juvenile?
> 
> 
> Ah, the old fear of pigeon poop. My neighbor is certain that pigeons flying over his house could poop on it and make him sick. This is as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard but is obviously a very common misconception. Pigeon manure can grow a mold and the dust from this mold can give a person Histoplasmosis. If anyone should have this disease, I should as I have been around thousands of pigeons over the years for most of my life. It is the only disease that I know of that is something that we can get from them. If I'm wrong, someone here will surely correct me.
> ...




Bill i dont know what your neighbor can gett from your bird poop but pigeons unlike seagulls dont poop in flight. something probably having to do with where their feet are when they fly.


onecoolmama welcome from all of us and ask away. but remember if you ask 10 different pigeon people the same question, you will get at least a dozen answers. lol

E..


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Welcome to the forum and many thanks for rescuing this baby.

You mention that he currently lives on your porch. Is it enclosed so that predators such as raccoons, fox, cats, etc can't get to him? You can bring him in your home, set up a cage and he will adjust to your home life quickly. They are usually very social birds and as long as they have food, water, some time out of the cage each day, he should be very happy.

We use Scatt for mites/lice. It kinda sounds like he has lice which is pretty common for feral pigeons. They are pigeon specific and usually do not live long off the host. Some people never get them on their bodies - my husband for one - but, let me get anywhere near them and they love me. I usually just pick them off and flush them. Scatt does an excellent job if you lightly spray their bodies except keep the spray away from their head. It may take a couple of applications but for us Scatt usually rids them of mice/lice. The lice, as far as I know, are not like the lice that can get in your hair.


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

*flying free*



kippermom said:


> I cannot tell if you intend to have him fly free then hope he returns...I do not fly mine but I think a single pigeon may be easier prey for predators. Generally I think pigeons prefer company or else YOU will end up being his/her mate...you might check out the pet pigeon section of this site, however, because there are lots of folks who keep just one or two as indoor pets and it seems to work out great for everyone! Welcome and enjoy!


I was hoping to let him fly free and hang out when he wants to. We had him in the yard a few days ago and he flew to the roof a few times and then right back to me or hubby. I know we ave some Hawks around and I know they eat pigeons...is there anything we can do to keep him safe?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

You run a big risk in ever letting him out, particularly if you have seen hawks in your area. My advice - don't.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> You run a big risk in ever letting him out, particularly if you have seen hawks in your area. My advice - don't.


I agree with Maggie.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Well, I've seen them drop one on takeoff*



eric98223 said:


> Bill i dont know what your neighbor can gett from your bird poop but pigeons unlike seagulls dont poop in flight. something probably having to do with where their feet are when they fly.
> 
> 
> onecoolmama welcome from all of us and ask away. but remember if you ask 10 different pigeon people the same question, you will get at least a dozen answers. lol
> ...


As many birds do, the stimulation of a takeoff seems to inspire a poopy. Anyway if this fresh bird poop could kill you, I should have been dead years ago as I've had about every kind of bird get me from head to toe and everywhere in between. As to my neighbor, he's just a crazy old coot who started listening to his paranoid wife too much.

To say that pigeons don't do it during normal flight seems alittle bit of a stretch to me. Some birds such as Tipplers, Highfliers, Rollers and Homers are known to fly for many hours at a time and I seriously doubt that they can hold it that long. I think the Tippler record of flight is over 20 hours. It is entirely possible that they will kick their feet out of the way to accomplish this as I've seen such peculiar movements with pigeons in flight.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I just learned about that*



MaryOfExeter said:


> We just got some today from Lowes. As long as you don't get the kind that you apparently put in swimming pools? You'll find the right kind in with the fertilizers/bug killers. It works well, and so does Sevin dust (although d. earth is harmless enough to put with food in storage, while sevin you don't want to get in the mouth/face).


Someone here pointed out that you have to have the right DE for it to be effective. Probably why I didn't like how it worked as I tried it for lice years ago and went the cheap bulk route with the swimming pool stuff. It actually wasn't completely ineffective but it didn't completely control the pigeon lice either.

Seems to me we used sevin dust to treat cows with mange which comes from a mite or louse. They get it above their tail and you just sprinkle it on the area. Not good stuff for breathing in.

Do you know the active ingredient? Is it Sevin or is it Malathion or are they the same?

For those who choose to use DE, while it is considered quite safe, aren't these things considered silicates as in silica sand? Silicates are known to cause cancer and this knowledge has changed how sandblasters do their jobs as they seemed to be getting alot of cancers. There are warnings on bags of silica sand.

Bill


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Naturally deadly to pigeon lice:
"NEEM IN THE AVIARY:
Neem has been certified by health authorities in the USA and Europe as being non-toxic to birds, animals and humans. The properties of neem oil support the effectiveness of garlic and ACV. Neem oil can be mixed in with the oil you might place on perches to water proof them. A few drops of neem oil will keep pests such as mites and mosquitos off the perches.
Neem is good support for PMV cases, and makes great preventive treatments for parasites and many diseases. A few drops in the seed dish once a week keeps bugs out of the seed.
+++

Neem oil vs. Mosquitos 

Neem Products repel and affect the development of mosquitoes. In a study, two percent neem oil mixed in coconut oil, when applied to exposed body parts of human volunteers, provided complete protection for 12 hrs. from bites of all anophelines. Kerosene lamps (Not for use around birds) containing 0.01-1% neem oil, lighted in 
rooms containing human volunteers, reduced mosquito biting activity as well as the mosquitoes resting on walls in the rooms; protection was greater against Anopheles than against Culex. Effectiveness of mats with neem oil against mosquitoes has also been demonstrated; the vaporizing repelled mosquitoes for 5-7 hrs at almost negligible cost. The seed kernels of the Neem tree are rich in limonoids, bitter tasting chemicals that effectively block development, feeding and egg laying in many species of insects.
"
Just put a drop on the bird's tail, and one on the back of his neck.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

DE
". I do have the CFR numbers showing FDA and USDA approval for using Diatomaceous Earth (DE) as a feed additive. I have been studying feeds and feeding for some time now and, about 6 months ago, I started learning all I could about diatomaceous earth. This is a natural pesticide and has no ill effects when used with animals. Be sure to get the food grade diatomaceous earth because it has been approved by the FDA and USDA. (The pool grade and filter grade have not been approved as a feed additive and it may be harmful to use them and they will not accomplish the desired results) ..."
"“Both swimming pool grade and natural diatomaceous earth come from the same fossil sources but they are processed differently. The natural grades are mined, dried, ground, sled and bagged. The pool grade is chemically treated and partially melted and consequently contains crystalline silica which can be a respiratory hazard. Thus, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT ONLY NATURAL DIATOMACEOUS EARTH BE USED FOR INSECT CONTROL. This noncrystalline silica is not a hazard as the human body apparently can dissolve it. “ 

“Silicosis refers to lung contamination and irritation by crystalline of free silica (Si02). Crystalline describes the orientation of the Si02 molecules which occur in a fixed pattern in contrast to the non periodic, random molecular arrangement defined as amorphous. Exposure to free silica is an occupational hazard to workers. “ 

Step Two: 
Make sure the DE you use meets World Health Organization (WHO) safety standards. WHO cautions that DE with a crystalline silica content over three percent (3%) is dangerous for ingestion by humans or animals. Safe Solutions, Inc. DE has less than 1% free silica. Swimming pool DE ranges from 60% to 70% free silica. 
"
"Diatomaceous earth can be applied in a variety of ways. to use for flea and tick control, apply a light dusting over the lawn, in dog runs, around pet bedding or favorite resting spots and sprinkle a little on your pet between baths of a mild herbal soap.........."
(Quotes from pigeon and dove care e-book)


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## Guest (May 10, 2008)

just to add to the statement that pigeons dont poop on the wing , well I hate to break it to you but the proof is in the pudding and I have seen it for myself that they do the doo while in flight so dont believe everything that you hear lol


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

*learning so much*

Wow, there is a wealth of knowledge here! Walter is doing great, no more lice . We did let him do some free flying yesterday, he stayed in the yard and followed us around, he likes perching on the house and just watching what we are doing. I think we will only let him out like that while we are in the yard, dont want him to be a hawk snack. When he is older, how can we sex him to see if Walter is a good name or if we should change it to Walterina?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*5 to 6 months of age*



onecoolmama said:


> how can we sex him to see if Walter is a good name or if we should change it to Walterina?


You will notice a sudden BIG change in a male personality when he starts to mature. Usually the male pigeon will become noisy with roo-kooing and dancing in circles, and he will defend his territory by pecking and biting anyone who tresspasses. Anywhere you allow him (as well as his cage)free roam he will think is his territory, so you will see a big change in him wherever he calls home.

Hens are more quiet and will coo only when you try to motivate them. Some hens can be more noisy and fool you.

If you put him with other pigeons it will be much easier to figure out his/her gender.


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Oh wow, I hope Walter turns out to be a girl then. Dont need any aggressive birds here.


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Lets see if this works...


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

Well it did work! Walter says HI!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Walter is one COOL pigeon and quite handsome!!

I would really caution you about letting him outside even you are out! There will nothing you can do if a hawk decides that Walter will be his next meal!! MUCH TOO DANGEROUS.

Build a loft for him or let him fly in the house if it's safe...

Just my two cents...you would sure hate to lose him!!

Shi, Squeaks, Dom & Gimie


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

onecoolmama said:


> Well it did work! Walter says HI!


He's a cute little thing............


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

*dont want Walter to be a hawk snack*

"I would really caution you about letting him outside even you are out! There will nothing you can do if a hawk decides that Walter will be his next meal!! MUCH TOO DANGEROUS."

We have decided to build him a loft, we dont want him getting hurt or gone. My house is very small and I just can't let him have free run in there. He really HATES being in the cage we've got for him so, until we get the loft built (soon), we do let him out for short spans and he spends time on our screened porch... but I hate cleaning up all the poo. How can one baby pigeon make soooo much pooo!! Do they make pigeon diapers,lol?!?


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

So what are the vital components of a good loft for one bird?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

onecoolmama said:


> So what are the vital components of a good loft for one bird?


I wouldn't recommend a loft for just one bird. He will be unhappy and lonely in a loft all alone. If you are set on just one bird, I would keep it in the house as a pet. If you really want to put him in a loft, he'll need a companion, however, it's best to wait until you figure out what he is. A he or a she...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

onecoolmama said:


> Do they make pigeon diapers,lol?!?


Actually "they" do.......one of members makes them special order.

http://www.birdwearonline.com/index.html


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## onecoolmama (May 8, 2008)

OH cool, I'll check that out.


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