# What color is Luna?



## wolfwood

I finally have a photo that does justice to Luna's feathers. She's really quite striking!! There are 2 unresolved color questions related to her:

1. Does this coloring have a name? 
1.a.  Does the pattern have a name? (My guess is she's got too much color to be saddle), She does have the soft gray on both sides under her wings and the dark feathering does wrap around her neck but her head, face, neck, chest, belly, back & tail are white (except for the 1 black spot you can see on her tail.)
2. Her dad is a white Homer ... is it possible to now identify what color he _really_ is/carries?










Thanks!


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## MaryOfExeter

Well darn, I was hoping she'd have colored tail feathers so you'd know for sure if it was indigo  Does look a lot like it, and bronze too. Some others should be here soon to give their input


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## NetRider

Beautiful bird!

I had one last year with the same exact color. I am not sure what you call that color, but the parents of my bird were:

Grizzle blue-bar cock with some red markings on his wings. (He was the son of a grizzle blue-bar, and an ash red hen)

White winged blue checker hen.

I guess the youngster got the red color from the dad, the white wings from the mother, and the grizzle effect from the dad again, but it was funny how it looked so much like a saddle. 

Good luck with your youngster, it surely is beautiful


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## spirit wings

a brown splash? just a guess.


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## TAWhatley

Well, I don't have a clue to any of the answers, but that is one gorgeous bird. I'll put a link in the genetics forum to see what the folks there have to say.

Terry


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## LUCKYT

Well, at one time we would call it a Bronze Splash, but i am sure that is not correct. Dave


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## MaryOfExeter

Now that I've stared at the picture long enough, I think I'll go with bronze check splash. For all the other genetics people who come later, here's another picture of the parents (right?) that I saw in wolfwood's album


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## wolfwood

Thanks, Becky! Yes, these are Luna's parents. This pic of mom doesn't show all the colors that are in her feathers, tho', especially on her neck - if that makes a difference.

Do you have any opinion on what color dad may really be hiding under that wonderful white coat?


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## jbangelfish

*Looks ash red to me*

The baby may have sooty making false checks, best to wait for moult to be sure. I don't see anything but ash red as to color. If dad hides anything besides ash red, it will show up in his young hens.

From this one baby, I'd say dad is recessive white over ash red check but one baby is way too premature to make this assumption. What color are the white bird's eyes? If bull, he is likely to be recessive white, which can hide many colors and modifiers.

Bill


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## wolfwood

jbangelfish said:


> The baby may have sooty making false checks, best to wait for moult to be sure. I don't see anything but ash red as to color. If dad hides anything besides ash red, it will show up in his young hens.
> 
> From this one baby, I'd say dad is recessive white over ash red check but one baby is way too premature to make this assumption. What color are the white bird's eyes? If bull, he is likely to be recessive white, which can hide many colors and modifiers.
> 
> Bill


Yes - bull. If all goes well, dad (white bird) will have 2 more babies in a week or so with Atlantis. Atlantis is a prior Polaris daughter, therefore, Luna's 1/2 sister and she actually does look much like Luna. Atlantis' wings have more gray / Luna has more red & Atlantis has more color splashes, where Luna's color is all on her chest and the back of her wings. An interesting comparison. 

<Just to clarify...1 white cock bred with 2 hens who happen to be mother & daughter. Luna = "mother x cock"> Clear as mud?


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## MaryOfExeter

I don't really see how Luna could be ash red


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## LUCKYT

I have no idea Becky, but this could get interesting LOL! JUST kidding. Dave


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## jbangelfish

*Hi Becky*



MaryOfExeter said:


> I don't really see how Luna could be ash red


Why not? I'm not sure what you mean. I'd be happy to know your viewpoint and why.

Bill


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## MaryOfExeter

Well, she just looks very, very blue to me. Her mom looks like an ash red, but Luna doesn't. Looks more like a blue with bronze to me


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## jbangelfish

*Hi Becky*



MaryOfExeter said:


> Well, she just looks very, very blue to me. Her mom looks like an ash red, but Luna doesn't. Looks more like a blue with bronze to me


This is pretty much what ash red checks look like with a darkening gene such as dirty, smoky or sooty. I'm pretty sure that it at least has sooty.

You could be right as well but I think the odds point toward ash red with a darkener and the appearance does to me as well. I can try to find some pics of similar examples. Indigo is a possibility, but is not considered one of the bronzes. I believe that it should be or at least could be named as one of the bronze genes. So could many others that aren't.

Bill


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## MaryOfExeter

I guess I could see that. But it still looks more like blue than a darkening factor though. Indigo and bronze both looked like possibilities to me as well. Maybe if Luna gets some more brothers and sisters, we'll get to see more of what the parents have in them.


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## bluecheck

I just saw this posting - the mom looks to be a dilute indigo. It's a bit hard to see from the angle of the shot, but I'd put probabilities at about 99.5% 

Frank


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## jbangelfish

*Hi Frank*

I thought she could be indigo as well but there is another shot of her somewhere that you can see her tail and it looks too light colored to me to be indigo. 

I have quite a few dark ash reds in my rollers from a number of sources and none of them are indigo. I just have alot of bronzes and dirty genes. I have indigo now as well but not in my old ash reds.

I certainly can't say that she isn't but I'd put the odds more in favor of ash red and dirty genes. Still, could be indigo, can't deny it.

Take a look at the other pic of her that shows her tail and see what you think.

Bill


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## bluecheck

I can't find the pic of the tail of the mom, but the neck shots look almost as if the bird is also carrying reduced. I don't ever remember seeing a reduced indigo, but I'm beginning to think I may have now. Where exactly are the pics of the bird's tail? By the way, Wolfwood NICE pics.


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## wolfwood

I'm _REALLY_ enjoying this conversation (even tho' I only understand it to a point). If you guys will tell me just what kind of photos you need of which bird, we'll take 'em! Body parts, angles, what it is you're trying to see, what you're trying to confirm and/or rule out, etc. Mom does have quite a bit of color on her neck! 

Mom (*Polaris*) is on the right. The other bird (*Atlantis*) is also Polaris' daughter ...








Also *Polaris*...









btw, *Luna* will not have any 100% siblings. *Atlantis* is *Luna's* 1/2 sister (*Polaris* is mom to both) and *Atlantis* is currently setting 2 eggs (same Homer dad as Luna). We have 2 Roller/Oriental Frill crosses currently in quarantine, who will be paired with Polaris & Atlantis ... we may let them each raise a clutch but the jury's still out on that one, too....but, by choice, Calypso (dad - white Homer) will not be allowed to breed again with either Polaris or Atlantis.


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## bluecheck

Thanks - I'd like to see pics of Polaris' tail, closed and spread, as well as the wing, closed and spread. There's something about that bird I don't understand readily -from this shot, I don't think it's reduced after all, but I still want to see those other views, please. (Basically, what we're trying to figure out is if Polaris is actually an ash-red bird or if it's an ash-red mimic (possibly a homozygous indigo, but Atlantis is also her daughter, that's a 99% certainty that Atlantis isn't **** indigo, since her daughter would have to be a het indigo (unless she's an ash-red het indigo, which might be the case since indigo doesn't show too well on ash-red)

Frank


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## jbangelfish

*Hi Frank*

I have a couple of reduced indigoes and they don't look like this. I can't tell you that they couldn't look like this, just that mine don't. I'll try to post some pics of them. Posting pics here is very complicated for me for some reason, or I'd have ton's of pics here.

This bird to me just looks ash red with darkeners, maybe dirty and smoky? Smoky can make these reddish breast areas in birds and dirty, well, just makes em dark but I'm not telling you anything new I'm sure. I agree that this bird is different than typical ash red but have also listed what I think is why. I do have dark ash red birds that have nothing to do with indigo.

Bill


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## Lovebirds

jbangelfish said:


> I have a couple of reduced indigoes and they don't look like this. I can't tell you that they couldn't look like this, just that mine don't. *I'll try to post some pics of them. Posting pics here is very complicated for me for some reason, or I'd have ton's of pics here.*This bird to me just looks ash red with darkeners, maybe dirty and smoky? Smoky can make these reddish breast areas in birds and dirty, well, just makes em dark but I'm not telling you anything new I'm sure. I agree that this bird is different than typical ash red but have also listed what I think is why. I do have dark ash red birds that have nothing to do with indigo.
> 
> Bill


Posting pics here is VERY easy.....it USED to be a bit complicated for some, but since we can now have our own albums.....it's really a breeze.
Try this:

*1.* Go to top of page and click on "User CP"
*2. *On the left of this page you should see "Pictures & Albums". Click on that link.
*3.* You should then see "Add Album". You will then be asked for a title for the album and a description
*5. *Fill those two items in and click submit
*6.* You will see "Upload Pictures"
*7. *After that point, you should be able to get the pictures uploaded. You can only upload 3 at a time. No need to resize or anything.
*8.* Once you get the pictures uploaded, you can go to a particular picture, click on it and either copy/post the "Picture URL" into your post, which will be linked to the picture. In order for anyone to see the picture, they will have to click on the link. OR...you can copy/paste the second line, "BB Code" into your post and the picture will appear right in your post. You ARE limited to 4 images in each post. If you use a smiley face for instance, then you can only post 3 pictures. In order to post more than three.......once you have the first three posted, then just click on "post reply" and post 4 more pictures and you can do that as many times as you want. 

Hope this helps. If you'll go by these directions just once, you'll see how simple it is. I promise.


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## jbangelfish

*Thanks Renee*

Does this mean that I can take them from my documents and my pictures on my own computer or do I still need to use photobucket or some image host? Taking them from photobucket to this site is where the nightmare begins for me. I always get double text for some reason and have to pick them apart for them to appear. I don't think I've ever successfully brought more than one picture at a time from photobucket for this reason, I don't always know which text is causing the problem. It becomes more trouble than it is worth for me. Me and computers, not friends, we only tolerate each other.

Bill


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## Lovebirds

jbangelfish said:


> Does this mean that I can take them from my documents and my pictures on my own computer or do I still need to use photobucket or some image host? Taking them from photobucket to this site is where the nightmare begins for me. I always get double text for some reason and have to pick them apart for them to appear. I don't think I've ever successfully brought more than one picture at a time from photobucket for this reason, I don't always know which text is causing the problem. It becomes more trouble than it is worth for me. Me and computers, not friends, we only tolerate each other.
> 
> Bill



Yes, you CAN load them directly from your computer. I don't even have an account with Photobucket and those other sites........never use them and I've got 20 some albums here on PT.


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## jbangelfish

*Thanks Renee*

That is good news. Hold on to your hats, I have alot of photos.

Bill


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## wolfwood

Polaris' tail and wing ... closed & Spread ... we'll take the photos tomorrow!



> (possibly a homozygous indigo, but Atlantis is also her daughter, that's a 99% certainty that Atlantis isn't **** indigo, since her daughter would have to be a het indigo (unless she's an ash-red het indigo, which might be the case since indigo doesn't show too well on ash-red)


Picture the head of a female specimen of the human species spinning 360* ....


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## MaryOfExeter

wolfwood said:


> Picture the head of a female specimen of the human species spinning 360* ....


Haha. Means IF Atlantis had two doses of indigo, then Luna would have one dose. However, Luna doesn't appear to have any indigo in her. UNLESS Luna is actually ash-red. Indigo doesn't show that great on red anyway, so one dose of it wouldn't effect it very well.


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## wolfwood

MaryOfExeter said:


> Haha. Means IF Atlantis had two doses of indigo, then Luna would have one dose. However, Luna doesn't appear to have any indigo in her. UNLESS Luna is actually ash-red. Indigo doesn't show that great on red anyway, so one dose of it wouldn't effect it very well.


Oh yeah...that makes it all soooo much clearer <hitting head with hand>

Tell ya' what?! I'll take the pictures....you guys *just* tell me the answer K?


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## MaryOfExeter

Well I tried anyway  Yeah I think just worrying about the pictures would be easiest. We don't want you having concussions over there!


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## wolfwood

Who would've thought I could get hurt on PT?


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## wolfwood

I hope the photos in this album give you enough info. If not .... let me know and I'll take more or different.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=552

Thanks - I really appreciate all the time and energy you guys are putting into this!


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## LUCKYT

lol! Dave....


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## jbangelfish

*Looks like dirty ash red to me*

We'll see what Frank says.

The white rump is a sign of dirty (verdunkel) and I have quite a few ash reds like this. There is an odd marking to the left side of the bird's tail feathers, a near bar. Maybe Frank can shed some light on that.

The tails that I have seen on ash red indigo and andalusion (spread indigo) have been very dark unless they are homozygous indigo, in which case they can be very light and mimic ash red. Some look like reduced birds. Again, Frank can probably explain why all of that is.

Bill


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## bluecheck

Bill I think you're right on.

Frank


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## wolfwood

OK - Polaris is Ash Red. What color does that make Luna?


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## LUCKYT

I would just call her/him a Bronze Splash. It would be easier for non pigeon people to understand! LOL! Nice color though! Dave


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## jbangelfish

*I'd call it ash red check splash or pied*

Baby feathers can cause confusion as many change quite a bit when they moult. It is good to note how they appeared as youngsters but best to make a final analysis after the moult.

The baby looks to have both real checks and false checks to me but this is one of those things that can change quite a bit with the adult feathers. Checks would have to come from dad as mom is bar pattern. Dad's are hidden by the white.

It also seems very likely that the baby has sooty and probably dirty, like mom, makes them dark in color. I don't see what I would call bronze, just the red markings that come with ash red birds that show pattern (checks or bar).

See how the bird moults out and we can have another go at it.

Bill


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## wolfwood

Thanks guys! I know this must have been frustrating for you .... explaining something so complex that you known (and, clearly, care) soooooo much about to someone who knows ... um .... nothing (but *IS* paying attention and learning)!

Regardless of what she's called - we really like her color!! Hope it doesn't change too much when she moults....but, we will see.


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## MaryOfExeter

Polaris reminds me a lot of some kind of opal, indigo, or reduced. Something about those wing bars and that weird bar on those few tail feathers. Did you notice how the wing bars turn white near the end of the wing? Looks cool.

Wolfwood, is there any way you could get some more pictures of Luna now? I hate asking for so many pictures, and I know it'd be better to wait once she/he gets a little older, but I have an idea that's bothering me


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## wolfwood

Becky, no one has EVER apologized to me for ASKING for photos!!! That's what I do!

Now...I could take LOTS of photos of LOTS of things...some might even have pijies in them  Tell me what you need/want photos of and I'll gladly take them for you.


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## MaryOfExeter

Haha  Well, I'd like to see basically the same poses you had with Polaris. Some good wing shots and whatnot. Tail isn't as important since it looks all white


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## wolfwood

OK. Gotta wait 'till this evening when my crack photographer's assistant gets home (it's a whole lot easier to get these pij pix with another set of hands!!)


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## MaryOfExeter

Oh I know the feeling. That's why I appologized for all the pictures. Even though some are complete camera hogs, most are very stubborn when it comes to getting them in the right position for a clear shot


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## wolfwood

Oh, now. That's 1/2 the challenge! See if these help you unravel your mystery thinking ... If not, I have LOTS of gigabytes still available and I _KNOW_ how to use them


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## bluecheck

Wow, it DOES look like it's an indigo check. Look at the tail bar - an ash-red wouldn't be showing the darker terminal bar in most cases. The subterminal bar also looks to be indigo. Both the checking and sooty (false checking) look to be "blue-black" rather than ash-red and the bronzing does look to be an indigo. I'm looking forward to mommy's pics because I might well be wrong and she might be a **** indigo.

Frank


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## jbangelfish

*It could be Frank*

Those doggone ash red mimics keep foolin' me. This could be another one.

Bill


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## wolfwood

Frank, the link to the photos of mom Polaris is in Post #32


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## george simon

*How Did I Miss*

*Hello ALL, How did I miss this thread ??? After going thru all the posts I feel that the white bird in post #7 may be the key to this I believe that he is a homozygous INDIGO the reason I say this is I have a homozygous Indigo cock in my loft that could be the twin of the bird in post#7. I will put forth my thoughts and I hope you all give it some thought. Here is what I see if Polris is carring indigo and the cock is homozygous indigo/indigo, could LUNA be trying to show a form ANDALUSIAN ? I have seen a ANDALUSIAN that had a very very light touch of indigo in the bar on the wing shield and we all know that Andalusion is indigo spread.I am new to genetics but I feel that just when we think we have the answer something new pops up an we may have to rethink what we thought we knew. *GEORGE


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## wolfwood

Interesting! I know NOTHING about genetics but, having seen a few Andalusians the other day, I wondered the same thing (with absolutely no info other than outward appearances). *IF* Calypso is the key to this ... maybe his 2nd clutch - due to hatch in 1 week (3/23) - will tell "us" something. The mom happens to be Atlantis (Polaris' daughter) !

Did I mention that I know _NOTHING_ - _NADA_ - _ZIP_ - _LESS THAN 0_ - about Genetics?


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## jbangelfish

*Hi George*



george simon said:


> *Hello ALL, How did I miss this thread ??? After going thru all the posts I feel that the white bird in post #7 may be the key to this I believe that he is a homozygous INDIGO the reason I say this is I have a homozygous Indigo cock in my loft that could be the twin of the bird in post#7. I will put forth my thoughts and I hope you all give it some thought. Here is what I see if Polris is carring indigo and the cock is homozygous indigo/indigo, could LUNA be trying to show a form ANDALUSIAN ? I have seen a ANDALUSIAN that had a very very light touch of indigo in the bar on the wing shield and we all know that Andalusion is indigo spread.I am new to genetics but I feel that just when we think we have the answer something new pops up an we may have to rethink what we thought we knew. *GEORGE


I have andalusions that I thought were indigo until they produced spread babies. Andys vary alot apparently, in the amount of bronzy brown that they show, from none to fairly heavy. As long as we keep in mind that indigo and andalusion are the same gene with a different modifier, it helps. I suspect that recessive red in the background is a contributing factor to this. We are having a discussion on this very thing over on the genetic site.

The first one of these that I called indigo t pattern, turned out to be andalusion (indigo on spread blue) and he is split for recessive red. More evidence to the brown/red pigments interractions with one another. Bronzes, reds, ember all seem to "enhance" one another in the phenotype.

Bill


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## george simon

wolfwood said:


> Interesting! I know NOTHING about genetics but, having seen a few Andalusians the other day, I wondered the same thing (with absolutely no info other than outward appearances). *IF* Calypso is the key to this ... maybe his 2nd clutch - due to hatch in 1 week (3/23) - will tell "us" something. The mom happens to be Atlantis (Polaris' daughter) !
> 
> Did I mention that I know _NOTHING_ - _NADA_ - _ZIP_ - _LESS THAN 0_ - about Genetics?


I am very intrested in how those youngsters turn out.Please keep us posted I can't wait to see how they turn out, if you can please post a picture of Atlantis. .GEORGE


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## wolfwood

Atlantis' photo is in post #20 (1st photo / 2 birds / Atlantis on left).

It'll obviously be a few weeks before there's anything to see on the soon-to-be-new babies but I'll keep ya' posted...should be interesting!!!


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## MaryOfExeter

Told you I thought it was a blue indigo bird


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## MaryOfExeter

Wait. You said Atlantis' mom was Polaris. What did the dad look like?


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## wolfwood

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wait. You said Atlantis' mom was Polaris. What did the dad look like?


No idea. Atlantis is a Spring '08 baby .. that's before my time.


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## MaryOfExeter

Ah, that's what I figured.


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## bluecheck

_I have andalusions that I thought were indigo until they produced spread babies. Andys vary alot apparently, in the amount of bronzy brown that they show, from none to fairly heavy. As long as we keep in mind that indigo and andalusion are the same gene with a different modifier, it helps. I suspect that recessive red in the background is a contributing factor to this. We are having a discussion on this very thing over on the genetic site.

Bill_

Bill,
You got most of the idea. Andalusian IS indigo. It's simply indigo with Spread. It could be a check or bar or barless indigo, but so long as spread is there you have Andalusian (_andalusian is simply a fancier term for the color produced by Spread & indigo in combination because it looks like the Andalusian color in Chickens_). The reason you andalusians produced spread babies is simply because they were het for Spread (an andalusian can be either a **** Spread indigo or a het Spread indigo)

Frank


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## MaryOfExeter

I think what he meant was he thought it was a regular indigo without the spread, until it threw spreads, making the parent an andalusian afterall.


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## MaryOfExeter

So would Polaris' other baby, Atlantis be a velvet? Looks a lot like recessive red but I see the markings on the wings?










She was from a different dad than Luna, but I think it still could be helpful with the whole indigo thing involved.


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## jbangelfish

*Hi Frank*



bluecheck said:


> _I have andalusions that I thought were indigo until they produced spread babies. Andys vary alot apparently, in the amount of bronzy brown that they show, from none to fairly heavy. As long as we keep in mind that indigo and andalusion are the same gene with a different modifier, it helps. I suspect that recessive red in the background is a contributing factor to this. We are having a discussion on this very thing over on the genetic site.
> 
> Bill_
> 
> Bill,
> You got most of the idea. Andalusian IS indigo. It's simply indigo with Spread. It could be a check or bar or barless indigo, but so long as spread is there you have Andalusian (_andalusian is simply a fancier term for the color produced by Spread & indigo in combination because it looks like the Andalusian color in Chickens_). The reason you andalusians produced spread babies is simply because they were het for Spread (an andalusian can be either a **** Spread indigo or a het Spread indigo)
> 
> Frank


I'm actually on top of all that, believe it or not.  I even used to raise blue andalusion chickens, many years ago. Pretty birds with mean roosters. Must be leghorns or very closely related. Many of those skinny little white egg layers have mean roosters. It is also very possible that my chickens had been crossed to leghorns as it would be an easy cross. Blame Murray McMurray if that's the case.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

The point I was trying to make was just that some andalusions may have enough bronzy color on them that identifying them as andy's (spread) can be somewhat confusing. The first of mine to trick me this way is also split for recessive red, which I'm guessing is causing even more of this to express. It seems to work this way with bronze/brownish colorations as they show more heavily when het e is there. Not a good thing if you are looking for clean andalusion color.

Bill


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## bluecheck

Great! Here's a trick I learned from Joe Frazier (of Giant Homer and other fame) some years back. He had absolutely the most beautiful andalusians with neat lacing and no bronzing and I asked him how he did it.

He told me that most folks had the wrong idea of breeding. He said that once you have the spread in there, that you should never, ever cross back to black but only to blue or blue check. In the blues and blue checks you can easily see if there's any bronzing that you don't want. Sure you'll get some indigo checks/bars out of the matings, but so what? They're clean with no bronze. These can be used in the next matings. He said the problem with using black to andalusian is that often the black hides the bronze and you wind up with lots of crappy looking andalusians with bronze up the ying-yang.


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## jbangelfish

*Thanks Frank*

I thought I'd read somewhere on your site about using t patterns too. I will try some various matings to see how they work out. My rollers are loaded with bronzes and recessive red as well as a host of other things.

Bill


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## bigislerollers

Aloha All,
Just wanted to share something that was posted on another forum regarding andalusian by Brian McCormick, an accomplished WOE and Birmingham Roller Fancier.


"What is considered the ideal color expression of andalusian would be blue t-pattern underneath the spread with no sooty, smokey or dirty and definitely void of bronze expressions which is quite common when breeding andalusians. I have found that excessive grease quill helps intensify the color by making the indigo blue more vivid and the black lacing darker and better defined. You want the bird to be t-pattern underneath because it has been discovered that laced birds (which are spread and something else like reduced or indigo) benefit from the t-pattern contributing to better lacing. This holds true in other laced expressions. I also raise what are called Gray Laces which are reduced black selfs and in order to have the best defined lacing, the bird must be a t-pattern. Keep in mind I am a show perfectionist talking about the ideal circumstance. You can have decent expressions of andalusian without every nut and bolt being perfect.
An andalusian that is bar underneath the spread won't really be visible if the bird is homozygous for spread. It might show some bronze in what would be the bar area. Generally speaking the bird will be indigo blue in color but lack defined lacing. If the bird is het for spread over bar, sometimes you can see a bronzy-purple-black looking bar showing through. Sometimes its bronze. Sometimes you can't see it. Raising the proper colored andalusian is quite difficult, largely because of the bronzes involved.
The attached photo is of a Mookie I raised in 03 which was Best of breed at the Pageant and best Rare at the 03 NPA Nationals. This bird was one of the best examples of andalusian expression. This image has been used countless times by countless people to illustrate the desired expression of andalusian. It was also one of four stamps in a pigeon stamp series sold in Romania."


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## jbangelfish

*Thanks Dexter, dats a beauty*

I didn't know you were a color guy, thought you were just a flier. Good info on the anydys. I think Frank has laid this out somewhere as well. 

I have been trying to sort out the differences in my reduced birds that I raise and that were all purchased as reduced blacks. I have always suspected different patterns and modifiers but haven't had them long enough to sort it all out. Workin on it.

Bill


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## bigislerollers

Aloha Bill,
I'm really not a "color" guy, (not much of a flyer either).  But I think that learning as much about these birds only makes it that much more interesting.


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## wolfwood

Well, Luna has grown into a fine young lady and I thought I'd post a photo of her wing. The color is much more defined than it was and the red is more prominent .... does this help at all in determining her color?


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## Lovebirds

wolfwood said:


> Well, Luna has grown into a fine young lady and I thought I'd post a photo of her wing. The color is much more defined than it was and the red is more prominent .... does this help at all in determining her color?


I was right......LOL
I have no idea what color that is.....


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## wolfwood

Thanks, Renee.

Anyone?


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## MaryOfExeter

I vote indigo?


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## jbangelfish

*Indigo is possible*

But doesn't really look it to me. Could we see a photo of the whole bird? It looks to be just moulting in adult feathers. It's a somewhat odd mix of color but I'd like to see more of the bird before going out on a limb.

Bill


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## wolfwood

jbangelfish said:


> But doesn't really look it to me. Could we see a photo of the whole bird? It looks to be just moulting in adult feathers. It's a somewhat odd mix of color but I'd like to see more of the bird before going out on a limb.
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill, this is a close up of the only color she shows .... both wings are the same. The rest of the body & head are unchanged from the prior photos.

As she is our 1st YB .... so we haven't any prior experience with moulting .... what makes it "look to be just moulting in adult feathers."?? Should we expect the feathering to continue to change? If so - I'll wait a bit and repost photos in a month? 2 months? this fall?


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## jbangelfish

*They do often change quite a bit*

The moult into adult feathers begins somewhere around 2 or 3 months and is usually complete by 5 months or so. 

The reason I asked is that the irridescent feathers around the neck look to be just getting started and the wing photos look to be going through a bit of a change. 

Bill


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