# any insight on where do feral pigeons gets their nutrients



## joyful (Apr 1, 2009)

Hello. Hope you all and the pigeons are surviving the cold January.
just wonder....
where do feral pigeons get their calcium? vitamin A B C? etc
please just brainstorm some possibilities to share with me, as I am suddenly concern if my neighbourhood pigeon flock get enough minerals and vitamins to prevent diseases.
thanks 
Have a good day.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

they will eat inorganic things like small stones , mullusks, and soil which have minerals.. it is good to feed them a seed and grain mix..and add corn for the winter months..


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

They will also eat some grass or weeds such as dandelions. Those birds that live in ocean cliffs eat seashells. Those that live in the city can eat snails in the park area. Research has been done on these by scientists.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

But what about in areas where the winter snow sends all the snails and weeds to sleep for months, and where the ocean is far away? 
I know they would get D just from the sun, but it would be interesting to know where our birds here in Nebraska and other snow-covered states are getting things. It can't all be in the gravel on the roads, can it?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Winter is hard on every species so they may not get all they need. Gravel rocks such as calcium carbonate is a good source of calcium. Water may contain traces of calcium and other minerals.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

you have to assume that ferals have a much shorter lifespan than well-fed captive pigeons. wild counterparts to domestic critters almost always have a shorter lifespan, partly due to inconsistency in the diet and natural dangers. 

it's likely that some ferals living in some areas simply do not get all the nutrients required to live more than a few years at best. fortunately, our captive friends get to enjoy all the vitamins, minerals, seeds, pellets, greens, grits, oils, and supplements that we provide regularly and reliably.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Libis said:


> But what about in areas where the winter snow sends all the snails and weeds to sleep for months, and where the ocean is far away?
> I know they would get D just from the sun, but it would be interesting to know where our birds here in Nebraska and other snow-covered states are getting things. It can't all be in the gravel on the roads, can it?


most times the snow does not cover 100% of the ground.. there are nooks of soil deep under evergreen trees.. sand showing where water/ice meets the shore of freshwater stream beds.. shoveled driveways..and roof tops where the snow has blown off.. it is harder to find..but when breeding time comes in spring when they need the most mineral content.. they can get all they need..


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> most times the snow does not cover 100% of the ground.. there are nooks of soil deep under evergreen trees.. sand showing where water/ice meets the shore of freshwater stream beds.. shoveled driveways..and roof tops where the snow has blown off.. it is harder to find..but when breeding time comes in spring when they need the most mineral content.. they can get all they need..


I agree. Vitamins and minerals are their least of their worries. It is food that is a priority as well keeping warm somewhere and not getting predated by hungry BOP.

Monday I went to watch some feral pigeons on what they eat in the morning. I noticed that in this particular place they were eating grass seeds and surprisingly I saw them eating some seeds from a fallen crushed fruits. It explained to me why those ferals were hanging on that particular tree and using it as a perch. These ferals are your natural ferals (blue bar and checkers).


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*From the food they eat*


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> most times the snow does not cover 100% of the ground.. there are nooks of soil deep under evergreen trees.. sand showing where water/ice meets the shore of freshwater stream beds.. shoveled driveways..and roof tops where the snow has blown off.. it is harder to find..but when breeding time comes in spring when they need the most mineral content.. they can get all they need..





karijo said:


> you have to assume that ferals have a much shorter lifespan than well-fed captive pigeons. wild counterparts to domestic critters almost always have a shorter lifespan, partly due to inconsistency in the diet and natural dangers.
> 
> it's likely that some ferals living in some areas simply do not get all the nutrients required to live more than a few years at best. fortunately, our captive friends get to enjoy all the vitamins, minerals, seeds, pellets, greens, grits, oils, and supplements that we provide regularly and reliably.


I am prone to agree with Karijo as far as our area goes some years. Last winter the snow everywhere was up to my hip for extended periods of time. The birds and other animals seemed desperate and there was even a rabbit who chose to live right up on our front porch for a while (we wound up feeding her some of the extra guinea pig food periodically.) The birds and squirrels would come right up on the back porch and wait at the glass door for us to throw out seed and corn. They would also sit right against the sides of the house (I assume) to get warmth. 

To give Spirit Wings credit, though, so far this year the birds probably can get under the pine trees and whatnot. It's been a much nicer year. 

Thinking about nutrition in the bad years though, would it perhaps be helpful to the birds to put out more fortified feed than just the wild bird stuff? Like maybe the extra of my Kaytee dove food? Or would it be better to let it be and have only the very strongest ferals survive to pass on their genes?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Libis said:


> I am prone to agree with Karijo as far as our area goes some years. Last winter the snow everywhere was up to my hip for extended periods of time. The birds and other animals seemed desperate and there was even a rabbit who chose to live right up on our front porch for a while (we wound up feeding her some of the extra guinea pig food periodically.) The birds and squirrels would come right up on the back porch and wait at the glass door for us to throw out seed and corn. They would also sit right against the sides of the house (I assume) to get warmth.
> 
> To give Spirit Wings credit, though, so far this year the birds probably can get under the pine trees and whatnot. It's been a much nicer year.
> 
> Thinking about nutrition in the bad years though, would it perhaps be helpful to the birds to put out more fortified feed than just the wild bird stuff? Like maybe the extra of my Kaytee dove food? Or would it be better to let it be and have only the very strongest ferals survive to pass on their genes?


credit?.. no need..it is just a fact...not my invention..lol..and no grades given here on PT..lol.. IMO anything you can give them to help them along would be a nice thing to do.. no need to over analyze it.. just do the best you can..


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> credit?.. no need..it is just a fact...not my invention..lol..and no grades given here on PT..lol.. IMO anything you can give them to help them along would be a nice thing to do.. no need to over analyze it.. just do the best you can..


I'm sorry, that's just how I think things out. I was just saying, on the one hand, I can see how one thing applies and on the other hand I could see what you were saying. Please don't be offended just by that. 

And I tend to analyze things a lot--that's just me, and that's part of why I joined this forum anyway (needed lots of information to figure out how to do the best that I can for my pet birds.)
I want to help the feral birds, yes, but at the same time I don't want my help to cause other problems for them or other native birds. I was just asking if anyone thought feeding them a lot and well would do harm genetically or otherwise.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Libis said:


> I'm sorry, that's just how I think things out. I was just saying, on the one hand, I can see how one thing applies and on the other hand I could see what you were saying. Please don't be offended just by that.
> 
> And I tend to analyze things a lot--that's just me, and that's part of why I joined this forum anyway (needed lots of information to figure out how to do the best that I can for my pet birds.)
> I want to help the feral birds, yes, but at the same time I don't want my help to cause other problems for them or other native birds. I was just asking if anyone thought feeding them a lot and well would do harm genetically or otherwise.


that is a wise thing to think about... Im not offended in the least...lol..


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## bobby2011 (Mar 22, 2011)

As far as my my understanding goes, wild birds animals are always stronger and hardy than thier domestic counterparts. they live shorter but till they live they are a force to beckon. no matter what they eat how they live, the mother nature nurturs them. if its snow every where, may be grit and other stuffs, as you say, might not be required, who knows. feeding them or not will make litle or no difference at all. personally i feel it will spoil them, make them genetically weaker. human interference with animals and birds has only lead to disasters rather than doing any good to them. some kind hearted poeple think they are doing good by helping them, but actually its other way round. let nature do the things its own way, otherwise animals and bird (like captive breeds) will become like human beings, surviving for hundred years, but can do nothing and worth nothing.


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## malfunctional (Jan 27, 2009)

In winter I saw the pigeons in town eating the salt that was laid on the sidewalk.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Around here (in the suburbs) the ferals often form small groups that live around specific food businesses like bakeries & fast food shops, houses with free-range chickens living there , and bigger flocks form around schools. They also obviously rely on the kindness of people who feed them specifically. I love my wild flock. I try to make sure they can rely on at least one or two healthy meals a day from me, clean water, and help if they get sick. They must have other feeding spots because some of them only come after a stretch of really bad weather to build themselves up again, then they leave for months at a time. The ones who stay around most are my released rescues, my disabled string injured hen, and the babies.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bella_F,


Those which live around and frequent the fast-food or bakery leavings, dumpsters, are destined to have short Lives if not worse.

Better urban conditions - when available, and if elected - would have Wild Grass Seeds and other incidental small Seeds as part of what is around...as well as that the Pigeons would graze upon tender Buds and Shoots and small Fruiting Bodys of various Weeds or low Shrubs and so on.

Also, they usually will seek out and find Mineral Deposits which offer Calcium and or Phospherous sources.


They need natural forms of Iodine ideally, and, some inland plants ( or their Leaves) can have minute amounts of this, but, fine textured dried Sea Weeds are much better, if improbable of course for non Coastal Pigeons to tend to find, unless someone provides it for them ( and, they recognise it's value, and, learn to eat it ).

Older Wild Hens are possibly the most savvy about these things...and, once recognizing valuable new food kinds, will set examples for the others to emulate.

They need some Omega 3 Fatty Acids, about as anyone else does, and, these can be scarce also, unless Flax Seeds are provided, and, the Birds recognise their value and learn to eat them. But Flax Seeds are very small, and flat, and very unlikely for Pigeons or Doves to be able to peck well, as well as that they of course tend to ignore very small seeds and favor larger ones instead.

One can also very lightly coat standard Pigeon Seed mixes, with Flax Seed or Olive Oil, and, to this, finely ground Sea Weed powder will adhere nicely...so, this is one way for the Wild or Domestic Granivores to get some of the otherwise too scarce to find Naturally of Nutritives which can be very important to their health and immune-system health.

Breads and usual orders of what tends to be available for them of people-foods of course are greatly too un-nourishing and or positively bad, for their preservatives and additives and incompleteness, for Wild or Domestic Birds ( or anyone else ) to benifit by.


Kales, Endives, old breeds of tender small Leaved Lettuces, Parcely, Cilantro, are all very good for them, things they can peck inty bites from...but, unless a flock is used to eating these, it can be hard to get them going on them...but, all it takes is one or two to start eating these things, and, the others will soon try it also, and, stay with it from there.


Have fun!


Phil
Lv


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info Phil; its very interesting! Just out of curiosity, is Spirulina a suitable seaweed to feed wild pigeons, assuming you could wean them onto it? The reason I ask is I have a huge bag of Spirulina pellets on hand, left over from feeding rescued tree frog tadpoles this summer. The protein content in spirulina is something around 28%, and it has no additives. It was fanatastic feed for my tadpoles.

Regarding the pigeons that hang around fast food shops/bakeries etc, do you suppose it could be rash to assume that its ALL they eat? I've never followed one of these doves around for the entire day, but I tend to think pigeons are smart enough to seek out the nutrients they crave, and that they probably use human rubbish more as fairly reliable supplement food, rather than their only food. 

Some scientific studies were done on this topic in my city, and the surprising result was that the birds studied would not eat more than 10% of their diet from human-provided sources, even if that food was provided in unlimited quantities. The birds studied were natives though, not feral pigeons. But it was enlightening .


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Around here anyway, the Pigeons who one sees forraging arund the fast-food-joints, can not even fly well if at all, for all the rancid oxidized grease/oils on their Feathers.

Probably most of these die in the Winter and or Winter Rains, for want of proper Feather condition and lack thereby of insulation.

I would not expect these Pigeons to be travelling far for other sorts of forrage, nor is there any, anyway, unless they travel quite a few blocks or farther, and, do so by Flying.
Far too dangerous for them to try walking it.

No doubt some have one Foot so to speak, in the fast-food way of forrage, and, one Foot in some more Natural ways, and, lean from one to the other as they see fit.

When I get these 'Fast-Food Oil Birds' in, I tend to keep them for a year or so, till they have all new Feathers, and, have long since adapted to 'Seeds', and, once released, I do not believe they go back to the fast-food way of forraging.


I do not believe there would be any valuable or craved Nutrients in the fast-food leavings around here, which could possibly benifit a Pigeon...other than maybe Salt.

Birds need some Salt of course, and, it is not easily found usually in Nature or in urban settings.

Cartainly, there is nothing of any value nutritionally in the fast food leavings, compared to Seeds and fresh Greens anyway.


One can also obtain concentrated Vegan source Amino Acids, in a liquid form, and, add this to one's Bird Waterers.

The Birds like it, it has a nice flavor, and, will aid in supplying valuable Nutrients which may be scarce otherwise.


Tastes a little like Soy Sauce.

'Braggs Liquid Aminos' is one such Brand.


I imagine Spirulina would be fine for Pigeons or any Birds, so long as it were a supplimental or added ingredient in their food kinds or Seed Mixes.

Good for people too!


Phil
Lv


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The beach I got to have the healthiest looking ferals and the fattest! I suppose someone is feeding them.


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