# Pigeon Abatement Questions



## Bustergates

I have a pigeon problem, and before I just throw up a net, I thought I'd check with you experts first.

I live in San Jose, California, and I have two maybe three wild pigeons with chicks who have made my apartment balcony their nest and home, and I have to get rid of them for all the obvious reasons including a menacing landlord.  

I have tried everything but shooting them. One of the pairs have already gone through several broods, and they are in the final stages of caring for their current brood of young, a current round of fledglings, who have a week or two left before they hopefully take flight and leave.

Questions: 

Just how significant a barrier to shooing them away are their fledglings? Or the fact that they thinks it's their home is more significant. 

Will my aggressive shooing and hosing them with water become more effective once their fledglings leave the roost?

Or will they remain just as stubborn about staying to raise the next brood?

I have already raided their nest and snatched the eggs away; does this deter them?

I found only one egg and I thought there was always supposed be two. 

Does snatching the eggs bum them out or do they just lay more? How does losing eggs affect them?

Is netting effective?

Does a layer of Pigeon poo 1/2" thick stink or not? What does too-much pigeon poo smell like anyway ... there's a nasty little pile of it accumulating in the corner where they've been nesting but I cannot detect anything specific without putting my own snout down there to find out and I don't know if I should risk taking a whiff or not since I'm being led to believe (by exterminators) that there's a virtual death sentence waiting for me. Is this pestilence hype and disease a real disease risk or not. What should I do?
Just how dangerous is it? There's a foul kind of burnt cereal smell in the air
some days but I don't know if that's pigeon poo or not or just bad urban air
in San Jose.

Another question: While the pigeons are here, how do I decode their
behavior, dance and courting?

What is the best site on the web to describe what they're trying to say or communicate. Any basic cheat sheet to decode basic, intermediate and
advanced pigeon behavior?

Are their gestures, courting and rituals particularly unique or not?

I assume the larger of the pair is the male?

Do males and females share the same or different dance rituals?

Anything else you can tell me about pigeons and abatement other than the
stuff I've read on your site and at a few others?

By the way they were perching every night on a light fixture which I removed
and now they're squatting somewhere on the floor.

I sure hope when the current brood leaves they will be inclined to search
for new digs? What do you think?

Thank you, 
-Peter aka Bustergates-


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## TAWhatley

Hi Peter,

I think you can probably handle your pigeon "problem" fairly simply and without any drastic measures.

If "your" pigeons currently have babies, the parents will lay eggs again when the babies are 2-3 weeks old. As soon as the egg or eggs show up, go pick them up and dispose of them immediately before any chance of incubation is possible. As soon as the babies fledge and leave your balcony, close it off with netting. You will have to be conscientious and assure that no birds or animals get caught in your netting, but once you get the current "batch" out of there by allowing them to leave on their own, it should be a simple matter of making your premises inaccessible to the birds, and that should be the end of it. There is no need to get aggressive with them.

Terry

PS: Pigeon poo doesn't really smell bad unless it becomes wet ... and it really isn't very hazardous to you at all .. exterminators make their living by convincing people that they are at risk from wild birds and animals ..


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## thediver

*Same problem*

We have a horrible pigeon problem as well. There may be some options here as well.

http://www.birdbgone.com/index.html

http://www.birdbarrier.com/


I spoke with the San Jose vector society and they informed me studies done on the diseases and bacteria that pigeons carry is enormous. They said if they had any one pigeon at a given time that it would be carrying at least 40 different kinds of bacteria.


Here are some reputable sources for some of the diseases pigeons can carry and transmit.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_PS019

http://web.birdbarrier.com/BirdBarrier/Site Pages/Diseases.htm


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## glassofwater

And I was castigated by other members of this forum for taking PRECAUTIONS when handling a SICK pigeon I found on my balcony.

There is no substitute in knowing the facts. "Compassion" oftentimes is just another form of *IGNORANCE*.



thediver said:


> We have a horrible pigeon problem as well. There may be some options here as well.
> 
> http://www.birdbgone.com/index.html
> 
> http://www.birdbarrier.com/
> 
> 
> I spoke with the San Jose vector society and they informed me studies done on the diseases and bacteria that pigeons carry is enormous. They said if they had any one pigeon at a given time that it would be carrying at least 40 different kinds of bacteria.
> 
> 
> Here are some reputable sources for some of the diseases pigeons can carry and transmit.
> 
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_PS019
> 
> http://web.birdbarrier.com/BirdBarrier/Site Pages/Diseases.htm


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## Jazicat

Terry gave very good information and I would trust her over the sites you posted. I don't trust the info from the bird removal companies and I checked out the sites. The other site looked to be about exotic birds and poultry. To be honest I worry more about getting sick from chicken eggs than I ever did a pigeon. I have four as house pets and have never gotten sick even from the two who came to me as feral birds like yours.


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## TAWhatley

Dear Diver and Glassofwater,

You are both new here and obviously have not availed yourselves of equally reputable and informative sites regarding possible disease transmission from pigeon to human. The odds of you getting anything from a pigeon are really slim to none. You would have to be incredibly stupid and doing some pretty disgusting things in order to catch anything significant from a pigeon.

This is from one of the links posted: _Bird-keepers (pet bird owners and poultry producers) should be aware that some avian diseases can be transmitted to humans. *It is important to note, however, that such diseases are uncommon enough that they should not discourage bird-keeping*. For most people avian diseases do not pose a serious threat, but bird-keepers should be aware of them and seek medical assistance if necessary. _

As to the birdbarrier links .. well, that's the business they are in, and they are going to do everything possible to promote their business at the expense of the pigeons, mice, rats, sparrows, starlings, raccoons and such that "pest" companies try to paint in negative terms.

Do some searching and reading here, and you might just find yourself better educated on this topic.

Terry


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## Charis

Bravo, Terry.

I've kept close company with pigeons for over 20 years. During the last 5 years, 2 have taken up residence in my house.They are feral rescues I raised from just a few hours old. Some times they bathe with me.  
I have not gotten sick. I do avoid injesting their droppings. They avoid mine as well. Likewise I don't chew on woodwork {lead paint] and I've stopped stepping on cracks in the side walk, [don't want to break my mother's back. She's old and has enough health problems to deal with.} 
I can't recall of ever hearing of someone that's become ill from one or any of the diseases mentioned and I know lots of people that spend a great deal of time with birds.


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## Lin Hansen

glassofwater said:


> And I was castigated by other members of this forum for taking PRECAUTIONS when handling a SICK pigeon I found on my balcony.
> 
> There is no substitute in knowing the facts. "Compassion" oftentimes is just another form of *IGNORANCE*.


Glassofwater,

I am a moderater here, but I generally keep quiet and try to keep an open mind unless someone moves me. 

You have moved me.

If you are here to learn, I welcome you.

If not, and I'm sorry to say, that seems to be the case, please stop adding fuel to the fire.

Thank you,
Linda


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## thediver

*Pigeons and Ignorance*

Terry,

Thank you for your response. I am not here to bash pigeons. I was trying to offer up some options to the original poster about how to relocate or discourage the pigeons from roosting at her apartment.

My knowledge on the diseases tranmitted by pigeons and other birds does not come from companies trying to promote their products. It does come from reputable sources such as first hand experience. 

I have a mother who contracted Mycobacterium Avium Complex.(MAC) is an atypical NON-TB germ (micro-organism). MAC is related to the tuberculosis germ, but is not contagious from humna to human. The MAC microbes live in the environment. It comprises more than one type of microorganism (both M. avium and M. intracellulare). There is evidence that the disease is environmentally acquired meaning that the MAC germs get into the lungs or body via air, water, or soil. 

Most people's immune system fight this off and are totally unaware of exposure. Unfortunately folks who have compromised immune systems or other lung problems are susceptible to contracting this disease. My mother had a lung condition called bronchiectasis prior to contracting the MAC disease.

The doctor's and specialists both believe it was her exposure to birds and the contaminants from their feces. The response to antibiotic therapy, unlike bacterial infections, is slow. MAC causes nodular activity in the lungs. The nodules are round and impacted and can cause antibiotics to work ineffectively. Germs become “resistant” to antibiotics and therefore her therapy for MAC required her to be on a cocktail of 5 different heavy duty medications for 3 consecutive years. 

In the end she was able to rid herself of the MAC, but lost most of her vision and developed lupus (auto-immune) which was induced by the medications.

So, please do not talk down to me as uneducation and ignorant just because I am a newly registered user. You have no knowledge of who I am, my education, background or anything else. 

You are welcome to your opinions, but I should be equally welcome to mine.







TAWhatley said:


> Dear Diver and Glassofwater,
> 
> You are both new here and obviously have not availed yourselves of equally reputable and informative sites regarding possible disease transmission from pigeon to human. The odds of you getting anything from a pigeon are really slim to none. You would have to be incredibly stupid and doing some pretty disgusting things in order to catch anything significant from a pigeon.
> 
> This is from one of the links posted: _Bird-keepers (pet bird owners and poultry producers) should be aware that some avian diseases can be transmitted to humans. *It is important to note, however, that such diseases are uncommon enough that they should not discourage bird-keeping*. For most people avian diseases do not pose a serious threat, but bird-keepers should be aware of them and seek medical assistance if necessary. _
> 
> As to the birdbarrier links .. well, that's the business they are in, and they are going to do everything possible to promote their business at the expense of the pigeons, mice, rats, sparrows, starlings, raccoons and such that "pest" companies try to paint in negative terms.
> 
> Do some searching and reading here, and you might just find yourself better educated on this topic.
> 
> Terry


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## TAWhatley

thediver said:


> We have a horrible pigeon problem as well. There may be some options here as well.


Ok, Diver .. let's go back to the beginning. What exactly is your horrible pigeon problem?

I have read your post about your mother becoming very ill, and I am sorry that this happened. I will do my research also and get back to you on what you have posted with any information that I can. You already stated the obvious .. your mother had immunity problems and ended up with a serious problem .. supposedly due to birds .. it would be nice to know the circumstances and particulars of this. For all we know, she kept parrots or finches or some other type of bird and her illness had nothing to do with pigeons. Thus, specific information would be helpful.

Meanwhile, let's get going on what your pigeon problem is and see if we can alleviate what the problem may be.

Incidentally, I wasn't trying to talk down to you, and I certainly don't know a thing about you. I would advise you, however, to be careful about "tagging" onto an existing thread. You might want to start over on your own, or I or another moderator can move your posts to a separate thread. If you would like us to move your posts to a separate thread, please let us know.

Terry


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## John_D

thediver said:


> I spoke with the San Jose vector society and they informed me studies done on the diseases and bacteria that pigeons carry is enormous. *They said if they had any one pigeon at a given time that it would be carrying at least 40 different kinds of bacteria.*


Did they omit to state that "40 different kinds of bacteria" does not equate to 40 diseases - that it means only that there could be 40+ different organisms in the body of which some will be beneficial and some may be harmful (normally only to the host)?

As well as treating sick pigeons with antibiotics when appropriate, we may also need to provide probiotics to help regenerate beneficial bacteria in the bird's system.

This isn't a go at you, 'diver' - as you said, you're not here to bash pigeons. 

Nevertheless, it sets me thinking about the whole issue of information and misinformation which various bodies (reputable and otherwise) provide to the public as a whole. But I'll put my views on that on another thread.

John


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## Skyeking

Here is a FACT:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/PijZoonosRskAZ.html


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## abisai

I have not heard of pigeons negatively affecting the health of humans UNLESS their immune system is already compromised. Case in point my brother has raced pigeons for years, won many races, diplomas, trophys, $, etc. Now he recently had a liver transplant and the doc says he can no longer raise pigeons due to the dust etc. that pigeon feathers give out. Doc says he can get meningitis from this ( go figure) He felt terrible that he had to give up his birds, but he did, and all the pigeon parafanalia aquired throughout the years. I wound up with his books, clocks, old bands, pics, etc. If it wasn't for the transplant, he would still be enjoying his life long hobby.


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## Whitefeather

thediver said:


> *I spoke with the San Jose vector society and they informed me studies done on the diseases and bacteria that pigeons carry is enormous*.


Diver,
It's true, pigeons do carry *some* diseases, but then I'm sure every living being on this planet has the potential of carrying some type of disease.

What I *am* curious about, & interest to know, is, if the San Jose Vector Society can provide 'case histories' (factual, documented evidence) with regard to pigeon diseases being directly transmitted to humans, & which ones specifically.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon

Sometimes when calling an agency, an individual may find themselves speaking
w/a well meaning volunteer who does not necessarily have all of their facts lined up. Likewise, even paid employees of any given organization may have a
personal opinion that isn't supported by medical/scientific facts nor is it the 
stance of the organization as a group. These are things to keep in mind when
calling an agency/organization.

Merck's Veterinary manual does have an interesting Zoonoses Table in their
On-line Manual that lists diseases and carriers of the disease which is also
contagious to humans. It is indeed interesting to view this table and see how
many times dogs and cats appear as the carrier to humans of Zoonotic diseases, that is, diseases transmittable to humans.

Click on this link:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/220100.htm

...and in the very first paragraph you will see a link entitled (the only one in the first paragraph):

Table: Global Zoonoses

Click on the link to that table and have a look, the fact is that even with
this information readily available to the public, folks aren't turning in their
beloved pets in fear of catching something. Nor are parents turning in their
children because they might catch something from them. Common sense
should prevail here and not let emotions run wild w/unsubstansiated fears.
Good hygiene can go along ways and a little patience wouldn't hurt. Blasting
babies w/water hoses on the jet setting seems a bit on the harsh side for
birds simply trying to live. There are other humane ways to discourage
roosting.

fp


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## maryjane

There were five years I enjoyed with pigeons sharing my house, and during that time period I had no adverse side-effects or health problems whatsoever. Now my many birds live outside and I spend much of my time with them and continue to enjoy excellent health, even more so than many people, due to the therapeutic effects of my pets.  Unfortunately, there are many out there who do not respect these lovely "rats with wings"  and therefore are biased (and not always honest/factual) when reporting supposed "facts". This includes many humane societies, veterinarians, rescue groups, web sites, and others who may or may not have an animal's best interest in mind. Hopefully our site and members, with all of the knowledge, personal experience, and willingness to guide others, will continue to assist in uncovering the truth about these healthy, lovable, and intelligent birds we call pigeons.


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## Fever

My main health concern with my wild pigeons after reading this, is that they sometimes don't take care of their dead. Especially in places like my covered balcony, they sometimes go to the very furthest dark corner and die there. Unless mine are just weird, or maybe sick. I hope they aren't sick, and it kind of makes sense to prepare themselves for the big balcony in the sky in a familiar, sheltered place. 

Last summer when some workers were redoing part of my roof, they found some dead birds out there. I was sad to see three or four dead pigeons during a recent clean-up attempt, and I'm worried because any animal, pigeon or else, can bring around a lot of bad craziness.


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