# Eggs Pipping...Slowly



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Yesterday afternoon I noticed that one of Rainbow's eggs (although Mubcupk was sitting on them at the time) had a chip in it. Yesterday was their "due date" so I watched it for further signs of pipping. This morning, I can see two more peck marks in the shell, but none of them have actually broken through the shell. It's been about 16 hours at this point and the chick still hasn't broken through for air. I know that once they break through for air, they can sit in the shell allowing their beak to harden for another 24 hours before they peck the rest of the way out, but this shell hasn't broken THROUGH yet. Does this sound normal? I am very hands off (I had an unattended homebirth myself because I don't want humans messing with the natural process) and know that human "help" is a leading cause of death in hatching chicks, but I just want to be sure this one is going through the normal process with enough speed. 

Part of the reason I'm worried is because the outside humidity here is SO incredibly low (11%?) and I've read that low humidity can make the hatching chicks stick in their shells (the parent's body raises the eggs humidity a little, but it can't be THAT much, can it?). Obviously wild mourning doves that live here don't have that problem, as they all breed copiously, but the ringneck isn't endemic here, so maybe it hasn't developed a way to cope with that. 

Is there a time frame where I SHOULD intervene? Or do you all take the "nature knows best" approach?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

offer a bath to the birds, sometimes it seems like a long time if you catch the pip and know somethings going on, but most times we do not know when they pip, and just look and see the empty shell and the hatchling, and did not know it took that long. There is not anything you can do anyway, so just sit it out, and Im sure you will see empty shell halfs soon.


----------



## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

You could put some wet towels next to the nest or something, too.


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Well, we have one hatchling. It had been nearing 48 hours and the egg shell showed signs of lots of pipping but none had broken through. In some places, the egg shell had fallen off in a tiny bit, but the membrane underneath was intact. I used a toothpick and opened up a tiny hole for him right where he had been pecking. Once I did that, I could see that the egg shell was separated from the membrane, but the membrane was like cling wrap around the baby, and dried and crusted. Carefully I widened the hole.










I also dripped two tiny drops of water into the shell, once I could be sure I wasn't dripping it into his beak. That loosened the membrane enough right where I dripped it. His leg came out first. It was strong enough to break the membrane. The protuberance in the middle is his beak, even though it doesn't look like it!










I peeled the shell back the tiniest bit more, then added a few more drops of water onto the dried out membrane. The humidity here is about 10% and over 100°F, and he should be at 50%+ humidity so that may be why that happened. I'm not sure. But that little bit of water and help got him going, and soon he was kicking and wriggling. At this point, I put him back in with his parents. 

2 hours later, I checked on him and saw that he had gotten the rest of the way out and was completely detached from the shell. He's alive now; let's see if he's strong enough to make it through the week. There might be something wrong with him if he wasn't able to crack his own shell. This picture is cool because you can see where he is still attached to his yolk sac and the rest of the shell. I knew he had to do THAT part himself. 










The other egg looks great. It is pipping in a nice neat circle around the top of the egg. When I candled the eggs at the 1 week mark, I remember one egg had the airsac in the middle of the egg and the other was at the top as it was supposed to be. I think the one with the crooked airsac was the one having trouble getting out, since his pipping started right in the center of his egg, not at one end. 










This is the one doing great. I pulled it out just to take a peek and because my doves are extremely tame and love me. They watch me, but don't mind at all when I pet them or reach for their eggs. It looked like it was pipping perfectly, so I just put it back. I will check tonight. Maybe he'll be out by then! (I was expecting them on Monday, by the way. They've been incubating for 16 days now). 

So, there we go. I know you are not supposed to help the babies hatch, but I just felt this one needed help after nearly 2 days of trying to get free. I feel lucky that I was able to help just enough and let him do the rest, and that he is ok.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sometimes you just have to go with your gut feelings, I had to "help" a bantam chick that was hatching in my incubator to get out also, she is now one fine broody black hen.

your pics are amazing! what tiny babies! let us know how they do. Glad you shared this...very interesting, I have three hens so do not get to enjoy any hatching and babies so, seeing this is nice.


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Here is the same dove, under his daddy, about 5 hours after receiving help. And here I thought baby canaries were ugly. Poor little thing. He looks healthy though, as far as I can tell. He's holding up his head, so I figure he has some energy left. 

I haven't seen the parents feed him yet. Think they're doing it quickly and quietly, or does it take a few hours for them to get started?


----------



## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

It's so... pink.

How is the other one doing?


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Pawbla said:


> It's so... pink.
> 
> How is the other one doing?


I just checked on them and the other is out, and the first one has a nice full crop. So the parents are feeding them and I just pulled out the empty shells from the nest. Hurray!


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh, but the other baby's beak doesn't line up. The top and bottom are off to the sides at the tips. Is that something that fixes itself? Anyone know what that is called so I can look into it more?


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

You can see his crooked beak very well here. Anything to be done about it? Or is it just a harmless issue? From the reading I've tried to do on it, it sounds like it could be caused by a vitamin deficiency in the mother. That's possible, since she laid 2 eggs which she didn't sit on by her own choice, and then 9 days later she laid 2 more, THESE two. That has to be a drain on her body, especially as she's very young and these 2 were her first eggs ever.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he is still soft and newly hatched, he will be growing quick, so just keep your eye on it and try not to take them out of the nest too much, let them have some private time with their new youngins.


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah, now that I'm sure that the parents are feeding them, I'll be leaving them alone. I only poked in that time to see if the parents were feeding the babes since I've been watching from the kitchen window and haven't seen them even look under themselves once! But apparently they are doing it while I'm not looking, and now that I know that, they will be in peace.


----------



## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

you do know that handling them that much at the beginning can cause a pair to abandon their babies dont you ..


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Their nest they chose is at the very front of the aviary, so most of the pictures were taken without disturbing them. Not this bunch of pictures, of course, since most of them were taken in my hand, but those pictures were done only by reaching in twice. Once to help the first baby and to take note that the other egg was cracking, and the second time to check the crop to see if they were feeding the babies and because the second, new chick was on its back flailing wildly (which is when I noticed its weird beak). So... yeah, I am trying to keep handling to a minimum, but these two birds are first time parents and I don't know if they know what to do, and are both very bonded with me, so they are comfortable with me coming and going. Before they started a nest together, they each got indoor time with me often, so they are very tame and handleable. They still get tons of privacy on the nest, though. But, thank you for your concern. I do appreciate hearing from a more experienced person.


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

That crooked beak can get allingned naturally, you can re check on allignment on the 5th or 6th day


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad the parents were very generous in allowing you to pick up those "hatching" eggs, the pics are great! I would not have attempted it except for with the couples I know well and that trust me.

I'm glad you are keeping a close eye on them but allowing them lots of "mommy, daddy, baby" time.


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

*Sad News*

The little bird with the twisted beak didn't make it. I saw Mubcupk feed the other baby, but never saw that other baby that was flailing around yesterday and had the misaligned beak. I watched closely for a little while, and when Mubcupk moved, I saw the baby pushed to the back of the nest, dead. I pulled him out; I'm surprised the parents didn't push him out. 

My kids are sad, and so am I, but as soon as I saw his beak yesterday and the way he couldn't get onto his stomach (kept flipping onto his back and flailing around), I figured there was something really wrong with him. Poor little thing. We're going to have a burial ceremony in the backyard in a few minutes. 

Just so this isn't completely depressing, here is a video of Mubcupk crop feeding the living baby. The start of the video is just after I'd taken a piece off the hatchling's shell and moistened the membrane so he could kick through. He's the one that survived and is being fed later in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd4l71f6_os


----------



## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

Poor baby .

On the other hand, it's a wonderful thing to see the other baby hatching. Thanks for filming and sharing.

By the way: You little daughter sounds adorable too .


----------



## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

The love the second picture with the little leg sticking up and the beak sticking out - something very alien about it. Could make a great avatar picture!


----------



## pigeoncrap (Jul 28, 2010)

Wow, interesting post, I used to raise Japanese quails and had the same issue. Most people say it is best to let such birds die (weed out the weak ones) but I've helped out weaker quails as their shell and membrane is much tougher than pigeon ones. I haven't had any issues with such quails, hence with that little pigeon, I would expect it to survive without issue.


----------



## mubcupk (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah, if I was breeding these birds and planning on breeding their offspring, I don't think I'd want to perpetuate a problem with babies that couldn't hatch by themselves. In this case, we were going to let our pair of doves have one set of young and then take the rest of their eggs for birth control. The baby is still weaker than the rest, very sensitive, but she is a true albino (not just white/pigment like her parents) and maybe that's the root of her problems. She will never breed, at least she'll have to be pretty sneaky about it if she gets some eggs past us in that aviary...  Oh, and I had her DNA sexed, so I do know she's a girl for sure.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

any pic undates?...


----------

