# Pigeon Found in Hertfordshire UK seems unable to fly properly



## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Hello,



















I'm writing about Percy, who was seen wandering around my office car park on Wednesday morning, unable to fly. I saw him wandering later on on Friday, and my love of animals got the better of me, and I put him in a box in the back of my car, and took him home. I took him to our vets, who kept him overnight, and on Thursday morning they said that they would either keep him a couple more days over christmas (after which they would have to consider the inevitable) or I could come collect him and try myself. Needless to say I did the latter, and he spent Thursday daytime/evening and Friday (Christmas day) morning in our outbuilding. Friday afternoon, I thought I'd leave the door open, and he started wandering around our back yard. I put him back inside overnight, and opened the door again this morning and hes again in the yard.

Couple of questions please:

-am I doing the right thing by putting him in the outbuilding overnight? Should I just leave him outside?

-He doesn't seem able/willing to fly, yet the vet couldn't see anything wrong with him. Any suggestions of things to look into? He can obviously move a bit, as he got himself out of his cardboard box (see pic).

-When in the yard, he runs around in circles. Could this indicate something wrong with ears/brain?

-Am I right in thinking that if he can't fly, then he can't manage in the wild? Am I deluding myself into thinking that we can keep him as a semi-pet (note that if this happens he must be either outside or in the outbuilding due to a young baby)?

-can I bath him? I'd feel more comfortable handling him knowing he was semi-clean

Thanks in anticipation
James & Percy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi James, I am just off to walk the dogs before it gets dark, will add mor later.

When you say he "runs in circles", do you mean he spins (I will try to find a video if you are not certain)? This culd be symptom of a viral illness called PMV in which case you have to be careful to isolate him from other pigeons for 6 weeks, don't take him to a vet or a sanctuary bevcause it is likely he will be put down...*we will work something out for him*.

Keep him inside, safe from predators. Offer him food in a deep pot and water in another pot with a narrow top...make the water up by mixing 1 pint warm water with 1/2 tsop salt and 1/2 TBSp glucose, or sugar or honey.

Can you tell us whether he has pooped, if so what is the consistency and quantity?

Also, can you let us know your nearest city?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

First of all, thank you for helping this bird. Catch him and bring him in, before a predator does. If he can't fly, he is a sitting duck for a hawk, cat, or dog. NO bird can survive in the wild if they cannot fly. How will they find food, or get away from predators? There could be a number of things wrong with him, most of which are treatable. And he really should be kept in a warm place inside. If he hasn't been able to fly, then he could be starving. He could be dehydrated. Starvation makes them weak enough not to be able to fly, but if he is walking in circles, he could have PMV or something similar. He should be brought in. So you have a large cage to keep him in, and a heating pad set on low with a towel over it would be wonderful to keep him warm, in a quiet room. He won't spread anything to the baby. After handling ANY wild bird or animal one should always wash their hands well anyway. By putting him outside, you are putting him in danger of being attacked. What do his poops look like? Can you post a pic of them? Do you know if he is eating or drinking?
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I see that Feefo has come in. We must have been answering at the same time. She'll help you. Just get him in and warm and do as she said til she gets back. Thanks again for helping the poor little guy.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello to James and Percy Pigeon.

In our first photo, is that *poops* in the translucent plastic food container in the cardboard box? Dark green with white urates?

I've rescued a number of pigeons with PMV (pigeon-specific *P*ara*M*yxo*V*irus, and with a peaceful, quiet place, some hand-feeding, they all recovered.

*It may not be PMV*, but there are some videos on YouTube showing symptoms of PMV. (I posted one on my PMV rescue, squeaker *Jimmy-Z*).

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My YouTube video of Jimmy-Z:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1iN7cR12XA

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YouTube video, on PMV 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz-F1WxDGNs

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If you can observe him and describe anything other unusual symptoms or behaviour, it can help us here at Pigeon Talk.

Thanks for taking him in. Helping pigeons can be very, very rewarding.

Larry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for posting the video Larry, that should be helpful.


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks all for the responses, I'll try to give some answers:

Our nearest cities are Stevenage and Luton, with London and Cambridge easily accessible.

Just to clarify, he has been sleeping inside the outbuilding (you can see the green door on the first pic), and has been wandering around the yard during daylight. I put him in for bed a couple of hours ago. To be clear, are we saying that the outbuilding isn't sufficient, and he really needs to be in a warm room? I realise that cardboard box and plastic takeout cartons are rather pathetic, hopefully I can get something better next week. My partner is not at all keen on him being in the house, so I think that the outbuilding is the best that I personally can offer him (which I guess is why you asked what my nearest city was).

I'll get a picture tomorrow that shows his poop properly, the thing in the tray could either be poop or could be food, it isn't at all clear.

He is 'circling' in the same manner as the pigeon in that link, except Percy is circling anti-clockwise where the one in the vid is clockwise.

I'll update this tomorrow with hopefully another pic. Thanks again all.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> To be clear, are we saying that the outbuilding isn't sufficient, and he really needs to be in a warm room?


If you could put a hot water bottle in his box that should help.

Ideally sick pigeons, especially if they are not eating properly, should be kept inside and warm so that they don't lose essential energy keeping warm. This is not always sensible ...I am allergic to pigeons and suffering the effects pretty badly at the moment , therefore have to ensure that I protect them and myself, which at the moment means giving them a "cat igloo" to shelter in and a hot waterbottle, but keeping the cage (well insulate with rugs etc) outside.



> Our nearest cities are Stevenage and Luton, with London and Cambridge easily accessible.


John_D is in Norwich at the moment and could take the pigeon down to Worthing where he lives for quarantine if a pick up can be arranged.

Otherwise your best bet is :

Pigeon Recovery
8 Vermont Road
Sutton
Surrey

If there is no-one in, facilities exist outside the front door for leaving poorly pigeons, and the sanctuary owners are never away overnight. If at all possible, a small contribution posted through the letterbox when you leave the bird(s) would go towards paying for the bird’s treatment, food etc.

They will take on pigeons whatever is wrong with them . The only snag is the placing of the sick pigeon in a box...I will contact someone who knows them to see to see the best way of delivery.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

> If there is no-one in, facilities exist outside the front door for leaving poorly pigeons, and the sanctuary owners are never away overnight. If at all possible, a small contribution posted through the letterbox when you leave the bird(s) would go towards paying for the bird’s treatment, food etc.


*Feefo*: even during the holidays? Just a question.

James: I noticed some PMV pigeons would turn their heads to the right, some to the left. Some rotate counterclockwise, some clockwise.

I kept some pigeon rescues in a laundry basket for a short while, or in the bathroom (easy to clean) for a short time until I found better facilities such as a plastic pet carrier. All are relatively easy to clean. 

I was at a point this past year of thinking that a bilateral lung transplant would be appropriate for me in the next year or two, so I understand the need for cleanliness and hygiene, but do not consider a pigeon rescue or two to be unreasonable or unsurmountable risks. Am more at risk in general from cats, dogs, and other humans. If in doubt, check out discussions of zoonotic diseases.

Larry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Feefo: even during the holidays? Just a question.


Yes, these ladies are completely dedicated* BUT* the question is relevant as I believe that their dedication extends to volunteering one day a week at another sanctuary, so if I was delivering a pigeon to them I would be happier to confirm that they will be there before delivering, so that the time the pigeon had to wait in the box was the shortest time possible !


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Feefo said:


> If you could put a hot water bottle in his box that should help.


Thanks. If I can do the above will that mean that I can keep him? Obviously I don't want to keep him in bad conditions, but I'll certainly see about the hot water bottle and/or towel idea. I would like to do my personal best for him though.

Dropping pic:









If it is this PMV, what is your recommendation? Is it cureable?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Thanks. If I can do the above will that mean that I can keep him? Obviously I don't want to keep him in bad conditions, but I'll certainly see about the hot water bottle and/or towel idea. I would like to do my personal best for him though.


You can provide more than most of the sanctuaries in this country can, which is a chance of survival. As PMV victims need a long period of isolation and may not be releasable the sanctuaries destroy them immediately. The main priorities are safety from predators, shetered from draughts and the weather and that he is able to eat and drink.

Hot water bottles need refilling regularly, but other than that I find them as good as heat pads. However, a good alternative would be to place a red bulb in a lamp and put that in the shed attached to an extension lead.

When I rescued my first pigeons with PMV I thought that pigeons were better in their accustomed outdoor environment, so I put them in the garden shed. That was in December 2000 and it was very cold!. Three are still with me, two of those made a full recovery and never relapsed. They must be over 10 years old now.


This thread on PMV should provide answers to most of your questions.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12248&referrerid=560

Pigeon Recovery provide permanent homes for pigeons that do not make a full recovery from PMV. I also have about 24 survivors currently in my care.


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## simoneg (Oct 24, 2009)

*Thank God for you James*

Hi James, Firstly thanks for saving this bird. It's people like us that thesse little creatures depend on ( and I believe come to) for help. Thanks also for posting about my little bird who I have named "Lucky" for obvious reasons. This forum and it's members have helped me so much raising Lucky. All the best to you James- Simone


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks. Percy seems fine thus far.

One question though - people have said keep him in isolation. Is anyone able to advise how long for? It seems so unfair to keep him cooped up, but at the same time I realise that we don't want him passing his infection to other birds.


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Please also see my other thread about pigeon accommodation.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi James,

Pigeons shed the PMV virus for 6 weeks and should therefore be isolated from other pigeons for at least 6 weeks (Vindevogel and Duchatel). (Please note, I have read on other sites that they shed the virus for 3 or 4 weeks, this is incorrect!).


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Feefo said:


> Hi James,
> 
> Pigeons shed the PMV virus for 6 weeks and should therefore be isolated from other pigeons for at least 6 weeks (Vindevogel and Duchatel). (Please note, I have read on other sites that they shed the virus for 3 or 4 weeks, this is incorrect!).


Thanks, that is good.

Does that suggest that after 6 weeks he'll gradually start wanting to fly again?

For the next six weeks, I'll only open his door when I can supervise, then in early February I will post again with further questions (assuming we get to that point).


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

It depends how severely he was affected. Many birds recover the power of flight, even before six weeks, but others may take much longer or may never do so. Some may regain flight but have setbacks in the future. 

John


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks John.

I realise that you (nor anyone else on this board) has actually seen Percy, but is anyone able to give any kind of answer to the following:

Is it possible in the future that Percy can be released (and/or that he'll decide to fly away of his own accord) or should I prepare for having him as part of our family until the day he passes away?

As I said, I'm not particularly bothered by the answer to this (and I realise that there are probably various answers), its just that it would help me to help him if I could understand whether I'm likely to be caring for him for a couple more months, or for several years.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Well, we believe that it is potentially dangerous for a bird who has had PMV to release him. They can have a recurrence of the neurological symptoms even though they no longer have the PMV virus, possibly due to some unusual stress. We have seen that with a pigeon who recovered from PMV several years ago, but now shows some of the original symptoms. If that happened to a bird 'out there' it would probably not survive long.

John


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Dear All,

Some sad news to share I'm afraid. First of all, let me give a little update.

Around Wednesday, I noticed that the seed/corn in his bowl wasn't going down. I'd tried holding it right in front of him, but this didn't seem to do anything. I also noted yesterday (Thu) that he seemed a little quieter than usual. Yesterday evening, I checked on him at around 6pm, and he was hiding away from me. He seemed okay. For some reason, I decided to go check on him a second time that evening, around 9pm. He was on the stone floor (never normally went on there), and he was motionless.

Thank you to everyone on here who posted advice about looking after Percy.

I do have one practical question though, and that is what should I do with his body. I haven't moved him yet (I'll do that tonight or tomorrow). I know there are places that do pet cremations (local to me - http://www.cpccares.com and http://www.willowhaven.co.uk for example), but I do wonder if that is over the top (and for example whether there is a more effective way to lay him to rest that means I could donate the £70 / $100 cost to an animal/bird rescue centre). Not sure whether there is any UK legislation that would apply here.

I certainly don't regret taking him in, and I would appreciate advice on whether there is anything I should have done better when I came across the apparent feeding problem.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi James,

How sad! I am so sorry! Fly high, Percy!

I have lost a lot of pigeons over the years and once my garden filled up with little graves I had to consider other forms of dignified disposal. What I have settled for is to take them to my vet in a box with the name of the pigeon and a loving message written on it and ask for a *communal cremation *. As the vet refers sick, orphaned and injured pigeons to me he does this for free, but I believe that the cost is about £6.00 for a pigeon. I believe all pet crematoriums offer this service to veterinary surgeries, we use Companion Care, who in turn use Peaceful Pets: 

http://www.companioncare.co.uk/find-a-surgery.html.

I gave Chubby Checker, a 10 year old, an individual cremation which cost £40.00 (the price is determined by weight), but then decided that that sort of money would be better given as a donation towards keeping a pigeon alive.


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## james_1980 (Dec 26, 2009)

Yes, a communal cremation was what I decided to do, £5 at http://www.willowhaven.co.uk in Watford.

Thanks again to all on this forum. If I am blessed with a little friend again, I shall be back for further advice.


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