# Sex Appeal...starting bid $10,000....



## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

and her face looks like a duck....LOL

http://www.racingpigeonauction.com/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=83187


















kalapati
San Diego


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

All hype, no substance.


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

.... LOL u right.


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## R-Tune (Oct 26, 2010)

x-mas offer for 10 grand!!!!!!!!! it's not very christmas-ty... Just donate it and then it will be very Christmas-ty...


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

*The Guardian.... starting bid is $15000...*



anil_pigeon said:


> .... LOL u right.




at least this one looks like a real Guardian than Duck Appeal...

http://www.racingpigeonauction.com/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=83186
















kalapati
San Diego


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I would rather spend $1K for that direct son of 720 when mated to Blue Diamond than this bird!


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

Duck.... No wonder she called it sex appeal but 10k dammed....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hmmm .. maybe I am missing something here .. I see nothing that remotely looks like a duck here (including the shape of the head, eyes, beak .. just don't see it) .. you guys seen a duck lately? 

Terry


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

He's just selling them because they aren't as good as he thought they would be. He must have had them for some time being they are almost 5 years old now and never got anything out of them. I wonder why I never saw any hype about these 2 birds in all his advertisments in the mags. If they were taht good he's be able to sell babies for 5k each why sell them for the price of one round of babies.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm not sure what I like more in the descriptions about these two birds.

1. the fact that Ganus has once again played his 150% Satisfaction gimmick that he likes to use so often. I am no mathematician but last I checked it was impossible for anybody to be more than 100% satisfied. it's like the athletes who always claim to give 110%, that sure sounds good but it's impossible to give 110% so where Ganus always comes up with this 150% is beyond me. i mean damn why not just go to 200% or even better go 4 digits and go 1000%

or

2. the fact that Ganus claims this: *"I have enough children off the Guardian to keep this bloodline in my family of pigeons that I’m building" *

*Anybody who knows Ganus sales methods knows that once these two birds leave his loft they will cease to exist in his eyes and there will be no more "family" or mention of them ever again unless someone pops up with a Sure Bet type bird with them in the background like Victor did.*

anybody remember 969, The Bull, Grangers Diamond, Continental Class, Triple 05, Blue Miracle, etc? What happened to all of those families? Oh that's right once they went infertile or they were sold they ceased to exist in his marketing. 

Even Ikon, Topo, Millenium, and President are barely even acknowledged anymore by Mike. He talks about building families but yet once the bird goes infertile or gets sold why does the "family" suddenly vanish too? if he was truly building families as he says the family would go on even without the original national ace and proven sons and daughters would be the new key birds of the family. that is what real breeders do who actually know how to build and maintain families. the family does not start and stop with one pigeon.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago when Super Champion was supposedly the greatest racing and breeding male ever to come to America and that in a short time Super Champion would become the greatest breeding male in All of America. What happened to that promise? How does the "Greatest Breeding Male ever to come to America" get passed up by 'Golden Mattens" the next year and "The Creator" two years later?

I remember a time when Granger's Diamond was known as his #1 Hen and #1 Hen ever and since that time he's applied that title to a new hen almost every year. Mona Lisa I guess has that title now but it won't last long. Again I'm not mathematician but Granger's Diamond and Breeder's Best results blow away Mona Lisa's as far as being the best breeding hens ever....but I guess since they are dead or infertile they are not even supposed to be remembered in history. i mean damn would not want a hen to be known as the best in history without being able to sell her children and make money off her. 

no doubt Mike Ganus has some incredible pigeons. there records in Europe and their awards speak for themselves. a bird like the Guardian or Sex Appeal have to be really good to win 1st & 2nd National Ace YB of Holland. what is troubling is his obnoxious marketing routine and gimmicks but his customers eat it up. i've always thought marketing in this in your face BS type way with massive promises and outlandish statements would backfire but apparently this is what people are looking for. I know there are a few GFL fans in this forum that buy birds from him and very likely you have some good pigeons, i just don't know how you can stand the way he markets. it's just so over the top and borderline sleazy that i'm surprised so many people buy into it


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

You are absolutely rigth...


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> Hmmm .. maybe I am missing something here .. I see nothing that remotely looks like a duck here (including the shape of the head, eyes, beak .. just don't see it) .. you guys seen a duck lately?
> 
> Terry



yeah...we have a roasted pecking duck dinner tonight at a good chinese restaurant here in San Diego. and when we got home grab some beer from the ref then surf the net...then i saw Sex Appeal...





kalapati
San Diego


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

swaze said:


> I'm not sure what I like more in the descriptions about these two birds.
> 
> 1. the fact that Ganus has once again played his 150% Satisfaction gimmick that he likes to use so often. I am no mathematician but last I checked it was impossible for anybody to be more than 100% satisfied. it's like the athletes who always claim to give 110%, that sure sounds good but it's impossible to give 110% so where Ganus always comes up with this 150% is beyond me. i mean damn why not just go to 200% or even better go 4 digits and go 1000%
> 
> ...


So who's wiser? The guy wasting $10K, or the guy who keeps his $10K? Every time I see a Ganus advertisement, I just feel sorry for the suckers who will fall into buying a $10K piece of paper.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

kalapati said:


> yeah...we have a roasted pecking duck dinner tonight at a good chinese restaurant here in San Diego. and when we got home grab some beer from the ref then surf the net...then i saw Sex Appeal...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The peking duck is now hunting you. It will haunt your dreams next. You will start to see it's image anywhere. It's revenge.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

RodSD said:


> The peking duck is now hunting you. It will haunt your dreams next. You will start to see it's image anywhere. It's revenge.



oh yeah...i think you're right...i'm still awake and i have to be at work early tomorrow... and Sex Appeal is always in my mind. i have to blame my wife when she wakes up tomorrow for roasted duck is her favorite...



kalapati
San Diego


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

If they were on pipa they'd go for more. WHZB NPO pigeons are really gonna be hard to get in the U.S. Because of pipa and the pigeon collectors out there in Asia and Europe. I don't know why you guys criticize the guy who buys these pigeons because this pigeon won the exact same award as DreamBoy and many other Titan breeders out there. I think the two birds records speaks for itself. Winners breed winners. But for that kind of money if you'd buy it you'd better have connections or are well known or they'd never make that money back. After seeing people buy direct surebets for $20,000 "fail" I wouldn't be surprised if someone did buy these birds.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Perhaps, but the way Ganus exaggerates the sales makes the bird look too over hyped. If it was truly that good, breed youngters and make them affordable. The results will speak for themselves. And by then, if it's a good bird, then the price tag is warranted.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm sure it's mostly marketing and most likely he probably uses these Offspring "stock birds" for pumpers lolol that's what they do best $15,000 waddup!


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

There is a market for high priced items of "whatever genre". Be it comic books, cars, handbags, baseball cards, etc, etc.

The thing is. People buy the "name" more often than not. Advertising and marketing works. I can not understand why I do it, but I too find myself buying the "name" often in life.

Basketball shoes. Pigeons. Clothing. Many things.

Can someone tell me what the difference is between "generic" drugs and "name brand" drugs? What is the difference between a pair of Uggs boots and boots from Wal-Mart?

There are people "out there" with money. Big money. They like to buy what impresses their friends and anyone else who is looking. In the U.S., 1% of the population owns 26% of the wealth in this country. An astounding statistic. There are people to whom 15 thousand is lunch money. Literally! Nothing to even think about when spending. We always think that the rich are rich because they don't like to spend their money, but it ain't so in half of them.

Look at someone like Paris Hilton. She would spend 100K on a dog collar. I remember several years ago when Manny Ramirez was playing baseball for the Cleveland Indians. The team has people assigned to do chores and things for the players. It was reported in the Plain Dealer newspaper that one of these people was washing and cleaning Manny's SUV while the Indians were playing a game. This young man came into the dug out and handed Manny a paper bag containing $17,000 dollars and told him that he found the bag of money in the glove box of Mannys vehicle. It was reported that Manny said. "Thanks, I forgot about that".

Do you think that Manny Ramirez or someone like him would balk or even think before spending 15K on a racing pigeon, if he was involved in the sport? Heck no. He would do it and not even remember the bird a week later. His "loft manager" might, but Manny wouldn't.

I just use Manny Ramirez as an example. He is not a pigeon flyer. But it goes to show that big money is just "there" for some people.

I won't even get into the explanation of the business aspect of buying "name" pigeons, and the money that can be made off of them in a short period.

From us idjits.


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*Sale*

his sales must be DOWN in europe so fishing around for buyers here


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't see the duck, but even if she did look like a duck, I think ducks are cute!  Both are pretty birds. I would take them if they were about a $100. LOL.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Ganus sends out LOTS of birds to one loft races etc...For every WIN one of his birds gets,there`s another 10 races they don`t score in...Ofcourse,he only has his ad`s show the one winner...What about all the birds sent out in his wife`s name...You don`t see her name in the ad`s at all....I guess,her birds are not as good as Mike`s....


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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

Alamo said:


> Ganus sends out LOTS of birds to one loft races etc...For every WIN one of his birds gets,there`s another 10 races they don`t score in...


GFL birds and GFL offspring are in every one loft race (entered by Ganus and his customers). If there are 400 birds in a race, I would hazard a guess that 250 of them are off GFL birds (just scan down the entrants list). If there is
only one winner, then 249 others are losers.

Those $1000 races (with the exception of the Million dollar race) draw the Ganus crowd, Protege crowd, Yu and associates crowd. There are very few people that buy a $2500 bird to just loft fly the offspring.

Ganus should work in a major corporation as a marketing exec, the guy is a genius (good economy or bad economy).


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I pity the person who is actually going to buy this scam. Ganus' marketing tactics are so outrageous that I find them comical. Think about if you were to see him do a commercial for his pigeons, 99% of the viewing public will think this guy's out of his mind.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

anil_pigeon said:


> GFL birds and GFL offspring are in every one loft race (entered by Ganus and his customers). If there are 400 birds in a race, I would hazard a guess that 250 of them are off GFL birds (just scan down the entrants list). If there is
> only one winner, then 249 others are losers.
> 
> Those $1000 races (with the exception of the Million dollar race) draw the Ganus crowd, Protege crowd, Yu and associates crowd. There are very few people that buy a $2500 bird to just loft fly the offspring.
> ...


Sure, and when the people who enter the races off birds from Ganus, he takes 100% of the credit. To me, that's being a chump.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think the secret here is: Ganus has good birds, people spend the market price for the birds + the $5000 pedigree sur charge. I have had good luck with birds off of Ganus stock. Not the high priced first generation, but the reasonable what the birds are worth second generation. You cannot fault Ganus, as long as people are willing to invest big dollars in his birds, he will be more willing to sell them. These two will find a buyer. May just be the times, everybody needs a little working capital. He might just be looking to replace 5 year old birds with this years winners. If you follow the futurity winners, you will find that birds off winners are out there cheep. 
A guy could drop 20k on these two for an investment, sell the babies at 500 a piece and start making money on the 41st bird. I am sure Ganus has gotten his investment out of them.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes his birds do well for me also. Even if they are not direct sons or daughters they have held their own. Who wouldn't want descendants of ace pigeons right?


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Anything to make a buck these days. Sometimes I see a really useless gadget on television and wonder why is this company/guy trying to peddle such a worthless item? Then it dawned on me that it's not the company's fault, there are actually people would waste money on the worthless item(s).


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

you have to be kidding,10,000,did i miss something


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

rono842 said:


> you have to be kidding,10,000,did i miss something


That's even cheap!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

kalapati said:


> yeah...we have a roasted pecking duck dinner tonight at a good chinese restaurant here in San Diego. and when we got home grab some beer from the ref then surf the net...then i saw Sex Appeal...
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego


YIKES! I rescue Pekin ducks and here you are out eating a duck! Actually in Chinese cuisine it is PEKING duck .. a way of cooking it based on the region in China where the recipe originated as opposed to Pekin duck, a breed of domestic duck .. the big beautiful white ones with blue eyes. Now a "PECKING" duck .. I'm not too sure ..

No problems here .. just trying to get the semantics right .. and having a little fun at your expense. Sorry!

Terry


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think what is hurting Ganus the most is the Pipa auctions. You can get birds direct from the best of Europe for Ganus prices shipped right to your door. Many fanciers are going abroad to obtain stock. Ganus used to be the only game in town. I just do not see how throwing world champions together to make a dollar is productive in racing success. I have birds off of Ganus birds and they are some of my best birds. I use them to cross into my sound families of birds. These are based on racing families not marketing families. Most of my birds have Vic Miller bloodline. A true racing family of birds. I have a family of birds around Bob Kinney blood, and a new family around a Houben bird. I do use Ganus rich blood to cross into them with success. What better bloodline to cross into a family than children of world champions.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have an old GFL cock on loan this season. He is a son of a two time National Winner and an aunt of Ikon. I am crossing him into my birds. Crosses win races. I think this method to find a cross is better than taking a free bird from someone and you do not know the offspring of the bird. I just noticed Elton Dinga bidding on Pipa for more Vercammen birds. They have been very successful for him. Elton has bought a sound family of birds, Ganus buys individual champions. Do not know which method is better, but Elton has been doing better in the futurities lately. Couple 100 bucks and you can get some good birds from Elton. Or a few 100 more the birds off Pipa.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

$25 grand could not only get you some good birds, but a nice pickup to use for training tosses. Could have bought 4 or 5 nice birds off the Jos Thone auction.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

well I don't think the PIPA auctions are actually hurting Ganus' sales yet as his birds are still selling like crazy and anything with a GFL band on it goes like wildfire in the auctions.

however the PIPA auctions are going to make it more difficult for Ganus to buy these National Aces of Holland and Belgium as it has given him much more competition in the buying processes for these birds. it used to be Ganus, a few of the european studs, and a few taiwanese buyers would go after all of the National Aces and Ganus would usually offer the most and win out.

now you've got PIPA making these auctions open to everybody and with the growth of the sport in China he's got huge competition from buyers there. all told it means he will have to spend even more to get these birds or he won't get them all like he used to. he's pretty much had the market almost to himself since the time Campbell Strange retired.

the one issue Ganus has is he has not shown the ability lately to breed many big champions in Europe or even in man big one loft races anymore. it's one thing to open your checkbook and fork out a bunch of money for a National Ace that someone else bred but it's another thing to breed those birds yourself. me personally I'd rather buy them from the guy that breeds them as he knows how to breed....the guy with the checkbook only knows how to buy them.

Ganus has had that loft in Holland going for what 10+ years now and how many 1st National Aces of Holland has he bred? I'm pretty sure the answer is zero and honestly that's pretty underwhelming considering he has the best collection of birds in the world and more resources than anybody he is flying against. what it proves is that you can buy all of these national aces but you still have to know how to breed them to get the same or better results.

Kees Bosua lives approx 10 miles from Ganus' loft in Holland and in the same time that Ganus has been flying there Kees' has bred and flown himself numerous National Aces and Olympiad Ace pigeons. and this is just basically a regular guy breeding and flying all of his own birds and making them into something.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

A bet you this two full sibling has alot of SiSI blood running to thier veins plus it was breed from shaerlakens birds... Remember last year winners cup USA two full sibling dominate the races!! It migth be worth something if you already have line in your backyard...

And people got smarter too for that amount of money why not go straigth to the nest of Belgium, netherland,Germany, holand and migth be cheaper to get five full sibling of the national ace champs....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

swaze said:


> I'm not sure what I like more in the descriptions about these two birds.
> 
> 1. the fact that Ganus has once again played his 150% Satisfaction gimmick that he likes to use so often. I am no mathematician but last I checked it was impossible for anybody to be more than 100% satisfied. it's like the athletes who always claim to give 110%, that sure sounds good but it's impossible to give 110% so where Ganus always comes up with this 150% is beyond me. i mean damn why not just go to 200% or even better go 4 digits and go 1000%
> 
> ...


 You make some very interesting points. In the case of "Super Champion" I suspect those marketing claims were made before a single offspring was sold. And now that the bird has been on the scene for how many years now ? How many super breeders or super racers has he produced ? If he really produced great things, then Mike would have cleaned up in a whole bunch of One Loft events. Add up all the events he sends birds to, and add up all the entry fees paid to all of those events, and how many of them end up in "The Money" ? Just goes to show, that even if you start with "good" stock, only a small percentage will end up being exceptional. 

I ended up with a really good cock bird out of that family of pigeons which were from Verbree, but then there are many good family of pigeons in Europe. And IMHO, PiPa has made these families available to the pigeon fancy around the world. As was stated in other posts, back in the "Good Ole Days" someone would travel to Europe and buy these big winners directly from the owners, and then bring them back to the states and sell the offspring. Now you can purchase race birds for often the same amount that you would pay for an unproven YB off one of these imported champs. The pigeon game has changed, but the debate about what a bird is worth, or what one should pay, will always be a livly topic, even as it was decades ago. These things will always be influenced by the amount of wealth that a person has, or does not have. If you are working for $2 a day, then a $100 pigeon might just seem crazy, but if you are earning $20,000 a day, then you will have a really different perspective. 

My feelings on the subject, is rather waste time telling someone else how they should invest their money into their hobby, I would rather invest that time and energy into breeding some pigeons that some wealthy collectors would be willing to pay $10,000 for, but hey....that is me.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

As a "new guy" to the sport I hope this is understood as the vie of an "outsider" who wants to be on the "inside". 

This is nuts! How does any "normal" person stand a chance of being successful when folks are paying more for "good birds" than I have paid for my car? You need look no further to understand why it is hard to get new members into clubs. 

That said I will counter my own argument with the evidence of my local club/combine. They have provided me with good, race proven stock as well as offspring of pairs that have produced winning birds. Unless things really change it looks like my only hope of seeing a champion in my loft will be to ship it to a one loft (which, per other posts, is pretty much a waste of time for the little guy as these look to be bought and paid for in advance).

And I do recognize that this will seem very cynical to many. Just tossing it out there.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

Jaysen said:


> As a "new guy" to the sport I hope this is understood as the vie of an "outsider" who wants to be on the "inside".
> 
> This is nuts! How does any "normal" person stand a chance of being successful when folks are paying more for "good birds" than I have paid for my car? You need look no further to understand why it is hard to get new members into clubs.
> 
> ...


you don't have to spend thousands on high priced birds in order to be competitive or a winning loft, what you do have to do is spend what money you do have much wiser and have a better more thought out plan than the guys buying all of the high priced birds. It's kind of like the Yankees in baseball. Sure the amount of money they spend is an advantage and they are almost always at least a good team but in the last 10 years they only have 1 championship despite spending way more money than any other team in baseball. the is because spending money for the sake of spending money without a real plan

*i know a lot of guys that have spent thousands upon thousands buying expensive birds and have almost nothing to show for it. these guys mistakenly think spending a lot of money is a breeding plan when in reality their just throwing money and hoping it sticks* they routinely get beat by guys with hardly any money who are better breeders and handlers 

notice I said "better breeders". breeding top pigeons takes skill, a lot of thought, and often some luck. spending $10,000 on a bird might in theory give you a better starting chance but you still have to know who to pair it to and of course if you are racing the offspring you have to be a good handler. guys without a plan often think just spending a lot of money for a bird and mating it to another bird that they paid a lot of money for is a plan but often times that plan will fail.

also as you mentioned you were given birds off top racing stock and the best pairs from good flyers in your area. if you have actual brothers and sisters to their best flying birds this is probably all you need. those birds have already proven to fly well on the course you fly and the breeder has probably already adapted that family to the course and conditions.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

Reminds me of they guy who is suing axe for it's body spray and not getting any girls like the commercials he saved all of his receipts and sued them lol I suppose some one could do the same by buying ganus's pedigreed birds with him "always" saying guarentee to breed winners spend $20,000 in furturnities and get squat anyways gotta love his collection of breeders he has in Europe those are the ones he uses, for some reason I can't find it on his GFL site anymore......


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

swaze,

I am in hook line and sinker with these birds. I have yet to find anything I hate about racing and I have the resources to pay for good birds (though not at this price). I offered to pay for all the birds we were given and I know that these are all great birds. It is up to me and the boy though to make our loft successful. 

That said, consider what a novice would see if they started "checking out" racing. To me $150 isn't a crazy price for a bird, but to a 14 year old boy (like my son or another new name here on the boards) that seemingly small amount might be insurmountable when trying to talk mom and dad into letting them get started. God forbid that mom and dad go online and start seeing numbers like $10K. 

That is all I am saying. 

Although it would be nice to pay for the boy's college with feathers!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree, the prices may not help any with young people trying to talk their parents into it. But then they need to tell their parents that not all good birds are that expensive. That they'd be better off getting local birds.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Becky (here I slip into parent mode, sorry),

How many parents do you know who will simply accept what a child is telling them? Even worse is when some strange guy who has a gazillion rat birds in his house is trying to convince you to go along with this "plan" to race rat birds. We don't listen, we verify. then we find, starting bid of $10K. OVER MY DEAD BODY!

Cynicism aside that is what happened to me when I went to get some birds. The Mrs starts off with "You want to do what? Are you nuts?" She already knows that I am nuts so it wasn't a big deal. Luckily the crazy guy here is very likable and his birds are very tame. 

I guess my point is that first impressions count more than any of us care to admit. As a sport that wants to claim roots in the working class the first impression makes us look more elitist than we all know we are. 

Maybe we need a third pigeon org. The PMRPU, Poor Man's Racing Pigeon Union.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

Jaysen said:


> swaze,
> 
> I am in hook line and sinker with these birds. I have yet to find anything I hate about racing and I have the resources to pay for good birds (though not at this price). I offered to pay for all the birds we were given and I know that these are all great birds. It is up to me and the boy though to make our loft successful.
> 
> ...


yeah i understand what you are saying completely. to a young flier or a family on a budget even $150 is tough and seems like a lot for a pigeon.

unfortunately over the last decade pigeon racing has gotten more and more of the perception of being a rich man's sport. the expensive bird prices and I think more so the expensive one loft races have fostered this perception. they also inspire greed and can bring out the absolute worst in fanciers.

i have long thought and it is slowly coming true that one loft races will kill local racing to where there will only be a few areas of the country (like 'Little Belgium' in Florida) where you can compete in regular races otherwise it will be all one loft races

to me that is sad and if it ever gets to the point where one loft racing is the only way to race I am done with this sport. it used to be where one loft races were almost like supplemental races....something you do on the side and looked forward to after the regular yb season is over.

now for many fanciers one loft races is the only they do because all they care about is winning money. unless there is big money involved they are not interested and that again is sad because the sport was not founded on the sole purpose of flying for money. for me and I think for most 'old school' fanciers winning a club or especially combine race is the biggest thrill because you bred the bird, trained it, fed it, and then raced it to a win. winning wasn't about money (sure you might make a few bucks here and there off pools) but it was about pride and the culmination of all your hard work to get your team and your winning bird to that. 

that aspect of the sport is lost big time when you just send a youngster off to a money race at 30 days old and hope for a big check 6 months later. there are now new flyers that get into the sport solely for one loft racing without ever flying or even having the intention of flying a regular club race.....with these guys i think it's not so much the pigeons that they are drawn to but the chance to win big money.....the pigeons are just a new angle for them to get there.

the concept of one loft racing is good and i think they are good for what they were originally intended for it's just that so many people have gotten so caught up in the big money that they lost sight of what the sport was originally about and still is for a lot of people and especially newer flyers that still want to keep it a backyard hobby and something to do with their kids.

i think the AU and Racing Pigeon Digest need to step up a little bit and remind people that this sport is not all about making money. sure that can be a part of it but when that is the sole focus of the hobby from the magazine and national perspective it definitely looks bad to new flyers.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I hear several arguments going on here, at the same time.

One: it ain't fair that us peons have to compete with the rich.

Two: it don't take money to win.

Three: few new people will get into this sport due to the "perceived" costs.

Four: few new people will get into this sport due to the "actual" costs.

Five: a fool and his money will soon be parted.

Six: it would be sweet if I was the one that separates those fools from thier money.

Seven: if someone "gave" us GFL banded young birds, we would be singing Jingle Bells
over the river and through the woods.

My opinion is that, there is a market for high priced birds. Ganus and some others fill that market. That's fine with me. The rich always shop at the places I do not. I am not envious (maybe a little). But I have spent more than 10,000 on a stinking comic book, so who am I to cast stones at those who spend that much on a pigeon.

If you want to shop at Wal-Mart instead. No problem. Their boots will do just fine.
But no one will be saying, "OMG, those are Uggs, aren't they?"

That's what it is all about, IMO. Image.

Along with the human characteristic that we want to buy success. Instead of creating it on our own. We buy pills to make us muscular (instead of working out). We buy pills to make us slimmer (instead of eating less). etc, etc.

I too have fallen into these traps. Have learned from it. But later forgot what I learned and did it again. And again.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Agreed.

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## anil_pigeon (Dec 2, 2010)

swaze said:


> i know a lot of guys that have spent thousands upon thousands buying expensive birds and have almost nothing to show for it. .


I know two guys that spent 100K on pigeons in one shot - one guy then entered the youngsters in the money races with big dreams. Sadly to report, he did not even get a sniff. Needless to say, he immediately resold the birds at a fraction of the cost.

The other guy is now a profesional breeder on ipigeon doing some ganus-like marketing to sell offspring.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> YIKES! I rescue Pekin ducks and here you are out eating a duck! Actually in Chinese cuisine it is PEKING duck .. a way of cooking it based on the region in China where the recipe originated as opposed to Pekin duck, a breed of domestic duck .. the big beautiful white ones with blue eyes. Now a "PECKING" duck .. I'm not too sure ..
> 
> No problems here .. just trying to get the semantics right .. and having a little fun at your expense. Sorry!
> 
> Terry



i don't know why you have to say sorry for there's nothing to be sorry about on what you said. we love eating roasted ducks anyway and i am not ashamed of telling people here or anywhere that it's part of our diet. maybe you miss something great in your life by not trying it. so in case you may get bored this xmas season try roasting that duck you just rescued. i can google you a great recipe for that just let me know.

peking duck roasting on an open fire....


BTW...merry xmas Terry!



kalapati
San Diego


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jaysen said:


> swaze,
> 
> I am in hook line and sinker with these birds. I have yet to find anything I hate about racing and I have the resources to pay for good birds (though not at this price). I offered to pay for all the birds we were given and I know that these are all great birds. It is up to me and the boy though to make our loft successful.
> 
> ...




You could always do what my parents did, let the kid figure out how to pay for it himself with jobs, scholarships, grants and student loans. Maybe if they have to work three jobs to go to school then they might appreciate it more.

I remember reading somewhere where it cost like $250,000 to raise a kid from birth to college. (with inflation might be much more now) So, it seemed to me that kids were too crazy expensive and a poor investment, so I avoided making any kids, so I saved myself $250,000 x's 2 or 2.1 and so I was able to go out and buy a few pigeons at crazy prices. And the best thing is, the pigeons don't talk back !! 

I am thinking for some folks it might make more sense to buy a $10,000 pigeon, or a boat, or anything else you may have always wanted in life, then to pay $250,000 for a kid that might turn out to have been a poor investment. But heck, the cost does not seem to stop people from going out there and making babies. And for people who would like to enjoy keeping some pigeons, I don't think the fact that some pigeons have sold for hundreds of thousands of $$$$'s should stop anyone either.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Warren, 

Berkley said that at 2010 prices, based on NO inflation for 26 years (masters degree) and assuming median college cost is estimated at $1.2M from birth to 26. I am not able to find the study to point too. 

Both of my kids are "on their own" for college. they should go. They need to own it though. If I pay i choose what they study. My son and I are partners in this pigeon thing and he already decided that he is going to force pair two of the birds and sell a round to pay for racing costs in '11. Thinking like that he may be able to pay for college with feathers. He has my support.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jaysen said:


> Warren,
> 
> Berkley said that at 2010 prices, based on NO inflation for 26 years (masters degree) and assuming median college cost is estimated at $1.2M from birth to 26. I am not able to find the study to point too.
> 
> Both of my kids are "on their own" for college. they should go. They need to own it though. If I pay i choose what they study. My son and I are partners in this pigeon thing and he already decided that he is going to force pair two of the birds and sell a round to pay for racing costs in '11. Thinking like that he may be able to pay for college with feathers. He has my support.


Wow $1.2 Million....that must mean that I ended up paying for a bunch of other people to have babies then with my taxes !!!  I must have dated myself with that other number. 

Your son has touched the other side of the coin, that many folks who have never owned a very valuable pigeon have yet to figure out, and that is if you own some very fine specimens, then other people will pay you money for some of the offspring. You can go catch a few wild barn pigeons like I did as a kid and have fun, but no one is going to want to buy any of your stock. Some very recent pigeon fanciers have become millionaires because of the demand and high prices paid for their pigeons. And some of these fellas were known to have paid top dollar for good pigeons over the years. 

Your son sounds pretty smart, maybe he will end up being a business major.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I will be putting up some info on our birds and some of the "pedigree" stuff for the good ones we were given. We have 2 that are first generation (AU/IF bands) off imports (NL/BG) and one that is out of Happyco lofts "Elijah". Several others have really good regional race records with significant winnings. We also have a few from Laurie McConnel. The 2 imports are the forced pairing that he is planning. No idea what the value is, but race shipping costs for us aren't that big. Maybe he will get lucky!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> [/B]
> 
> You could always do what my parents did, let the kid figure out how to pay for it himself with jobs, scholarships, grants and student loans. Maybe if they have to work three jobs to go to school then they might appreciate it more.
> 
> ...


Warren, your plan seems like a winner to me! I went down the other path many years ago, and my investment did not pay off.* OH WELL!*


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jaysen said:


> I will be putting up some info on our birds and some of the "pedigree" stuff for the good ones we were given. We have 2 that are first generation (AU/IF bands) off imports (NL/BG) and one that is out of Happyco lofts "Elijah". Several others have really good regional race records with significant winnings. We also have a few from Laurie McConnel. The 2 imports are the forced pairing that he is planning. No idea what the value is, but race shipping costs for us aren't that big. Maybe he will get lucky!


Good luck to ya !! And just for the record, I have "Invested" more then $10,000 a number of times for what I considered to be very collectable, world class racing material. I enjoy them just for the pure joy and pleasure it gives me to own something so beautiful. But, at the end of the season, most of what I produce is NOT exceptional. Very rarely do real Champions come around. *One might be lucky to produce one in a life time.* Mathematically speaking, your typical fancier will produce very typical pigeons. Anyway you slice it, or dice it, luck will always play a big part of it. Money will provide some advantages, but the skill of the breeder can not be underestimated. Sounds like what you have is a good start ! You landed with some real sportsmen who want to help you get a good start. I am sure someday you will also help some folks get started as well !


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

There are obviously some that are priceless. Hopefully your kids are one of them.


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