# Help, I found a baby (?) pidgeon yesterday!



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Hello from South America. I'm very happy I found you on the internet. Here's the story: yesterday around 5 o'clock I found a baby pigeon (if I read correctly, I think it may be called a 'squab') and I don't know what to do with it. I put it in a shoe box with newspaper, heated it under a light, gave it some water and food with a syringe (I've tried peanut butter and water solution or crushed rice and water solution). Later I tried giving him (her?) this with a bottle cap and then a straw, and he did drink some water, but not much.

It seems healthy, poops often, chirps when somebody comes around and just seems okay. Still, I really don't know what to do. How much should I feed him, because he didn't seem to eat much (although some) when I gave him food? How and with what should I feed him, should I open his beak or what? Can I release him into the wild later? Basically, I don't know anything.

Thanks in advance, Adrian


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, first off, go here and see how old he is by comparing the pictures:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

sorry for double posting, but I also meant to ask how often I should feed it. I go to school, so what should I do? Like I said, he's warm, responsive and energetic, but he doesn't seem to eat or drink much, so what should I do? Please reply. Thank you, Adrian


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

First of all, thanks for the very quick reply. After looking at the pictures, I'd say he's about 6-9 days old.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well everything depends on how old this baby is. Be careful giving it water as you could asperate it's lungs. Any feathers yet? About how big is he/she? They eat seeds. Smaller at first as they are small. Grains too. Pigeons drink water just like humans do. They drink water by slurping up water where some birds till their heads back to drink the water. More people will be on here shortly to answer your questions and maybe they can help you out more than I can. Good Luck

Cindy


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

He has thick needle like feathers and is about 3 or 4 inches long, so maybe I was off a bit on the age.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's not what I wanted to hear... 

Normally, they get "pigeon milk" when they're newly hatched and that starts tapering off over the first 10 days and then they're mostly getting a combination of water and regurgitated seeds that have been soaking in the parents crop for awhile. At this point, his gizzard (the muscular stomach) is operational so seeds are okay but somebody else needs to get on here and possibly give you a formula for a homebrew. In the meantime, do you have access to some non-canned things like corn and peas (non-frozen) or puppy chow?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

"do you have access to some non-canned things like corn and peas (non-frozen) or puppy chow?" - Yes, should I make a runny or mushy mix?


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It doesn't need to be but which of those items do you have?

Pidgey


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The puppy chow would work for now, but he can't be fed puppy chow for the next two-three weeks.
Is there a chance a vet or pet store near you sells baby bird formula? I am sure parrot breeders would have it on hand. Maybe you can locate one and ask him if he sold you some or he could tell you where to get it from.
The amount of feedings should be 10% of his weight every 4-5 hours or when the crop is empty. You need to check the crop before the feedings.
You don't need to give him water if you feed him formula.
If the crop is not empty before the feeding then you can give just a couple of ml of water and wait till the crop empties and feed.

S/he is still a baby and won't eat on his own for the next few weeks. Also at this age he can become tame and attached to you, so that will make releasing him pretty tough. But you still have weeks before considering releasing him, so lets take it one step at a time.

Reti


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

right now, I have only rice and popcorn kernels I believe


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Since Jiggs is currently on, I PMed him to come and have a look. He's also in South Africa so he might be able to help with local knowledge about products that you might need and where to find them.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

azuur said:


> right now, I have only rice and popcorn kernels I believe


Unsalted and unbuttered popcorn?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

and, yes, the crop is empty


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

and again yes, it's unsalted and unbuttered, it's just plain popcorn kernels


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At least I had the first letter of the second name of the continent right... I guess Jiggs ain't going to be able to help here.

Oh, well, at least the popcorn is the right stuff. You can start soaking some of that to feed him later.

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

oh, and, I'm in South AMERICA (Colombia, to be exact), not South Africa


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You wouldn't, by any chance, have access to unflavored, unsweetened yoghurt that still have live, active cultures, would you?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

not really...


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Reti said:


> Azuur mentioned s/he is from S.America.


Read up a bit, Reti.

Are there any stores nearby that have a variety of food products?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

yes, there's a supermarket down the street


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, then, look for these kinds of items in your kitchen and see if we can make some kind of very thick soup or pudding:

Breakfast food-(unsweetened)
Rice crispies- rice
Cherrios-oats
Wheaties-wheat
Popcorn finely ground
Dried split peas finely ground
Cooked beans
Hard boiled egg (some of both yolk & white)
Finely ground egg shell for calcium
A bit of Vitamin Powder if you have some.

How many of those ingredients do you have?

Pidgey


----------



## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Thank you for rescuing the baby pigeon, and welcome to Pigeon Talk!

The uncanned dog food (kibble) and Gerber's baby rice formula (this is powdered) are very important, but Kaytee Exact baby bird formula would be the best. Please do not feed the baby dairy products because they cannot digest the lactose in milk. When you feed the baby gently open the beak and place a small chunk of dogfood soaked in water in and the baby will swallow the food.

Be very careful not to overfeed the baby, feed until the crop is roundish and squishy not taunt. You will also need to allow the crop to empty before feeding again. This way the baby's crop will not become impacted or sour, which could kill it.

You will also need to keep the baby warm at night, or maybe not depending on what your low temperature at night is. I'd use a heating pad set on low placed beneath the contained you're keeping the baby in. I'd recommend placing the baby in a plastic bowl with paper towels inside of it, for traction and to avoid splay legs.


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Ok, I will probably do something like that tomorrow, since the store already closed. The pigeon just ate very well (did he?), probably a teaspoon of rice mushy stuff in the last two hours. I will feed him that tonight and early tomorrow morning, until I get the stuff you're talking about. Thank you everyone for your help. I will report on what happens tomorrow


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

So, I should make a Gerber-baby-mush-and-grains-and-other-stuff thick soup tomorrow. Thanks again


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

This morning he woke up fine and ate. I force fed him my rice mushy stuff. By the way, is this the right way to feed him? I heard that his crop needs to be full, but I just fed him what seems to be a lot of rice mushy stuff, and it doesn't seem to be full. Is this ok?

Also, he doesn't seem to be drinking water from the improvised cups I put in his box, so I decided to give him some water from a spoon, which he does drink. What should I do on that regard?

Another question I have is when to introduce him to seed. If you want to know how old he is, (because I was unsuccessful at deciding by looking at the pictures) I could take a picture and put it online.

Furthermore, last night I talked to my sister, who is an animal loving, pet loving, vegan in San Francisco, California. She told me to feed it at least five times a day. The most important thing she said to me is that, assuming the pigeon survives, I probably have to keep it as a pet or give it to someone as a pet. She also said that, as a pet, it might be risky to leave it outdoors because it could land on someone head or near a cat, since it didn't develop these ideas of staying away from them. My last question is, is there a way to keep it as a pet outdoors, be it by training the bird, or building some kind of cage or anything? My father is very allergic to animals so I don't think it's possible to keep the pigeon in here when it's grown up, however I feel it's very unlikely that I can find people in Colombia who would want a pigeon as a pet (even though my sister said they make great pets) because of people's ideas here.


Anyway, I have to go to school. Bye for now, Adrian


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Adrian,

Thank you for taking care of this youngster.

PLEASE do take a pic for us.

How does the poop look, he should be pooping alot? 

Can you grind up a few sunflowers (without the shell) or safflowers, even a drop of olive oil added to the mix might help? Go easy on the rice, perhaps only 2 percent of the entire mix. The rice may just stop him up. Do you have any kind of kefir or plain yogurt on hand? You can add a little of that.

You can always leave a small, deep spill proof bowl with little seeds in it for him to practice eating seeds, but he won't be curious unless you make him interested in it, but that will come later.

Don't worry about him drinking yet, the formula mix should provide enough water, as he is too young to drink.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Adrian,

Are you in the country or the city?

Here we have some stuff called chick crumbs that are excellent for raising squabs. If you have a corn store or some other shop that caters for people that keep chickens they might have something similar.

These are some useful links: THis one tells you how much to feed at each stage:

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm


THis one outlines various methods of feeding:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682&referrerid=560

THis one is a video that demonstrates the Syringe and balloon method of feeding (the syringe and balloon can be repplaced by whatever y9ou have to hand, someone used a cake icing bag successfully)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682&referrerid=560
BTW, what country are you in? One of our members is in Montevideo but I don't know if she is accessing the Internet.

Cynthia


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Thank you very much for your help. I'm in Colombia, in Bogotá, the capital, so yes, I'm in the city. I will take into account the rice commentary and the links. 

The poop seems to be just fine, regular bird poop as far as I'm concerned, plenty too. When I got home from school I found the pigeon sleeping and there was little poop, however I found out that my parents had changed the newspaper not to long ago and that it was very dirty.

I will take a picture for you, and again, thanks for your help.


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the pigeon. I have larger versions of the pictures just in case.






He has been pooping less lately, this worries me some. I fed him and he seems to be sleepy so I'm going to let him sleep for several hours, although checking on his poop


----------



## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

You're always better off to feed a little less than to overfeed.

I'm worried that the baby may be getting dehydrated, and it is too young to be drinking on it's own. What is the consistency of the formula you're feeding?

Please feel the baby's crop, is it nice and soft (squishy) or is it hard?

If the crop is hard syringe feed some water and gently message the crop.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Azuur .. I don't think that is a pigeon .. I think it's a dove .. the care is pretty much the same
but the amounts of food and water would be quite different as a dove is much smaller than a pigeon.
Also, if I am correct about it being a dove, it is quite a bit older than many of us have been thinking.

If I'm way off here, I apologize as I'm just now trying to quickly scan all the posts in this thread.

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK .. took another look at the pics .. still think it is a dove but the beak is very pigeon like and less dove like. Can you post a couple of larger pictures .. even larger than what you get when you click on the thumbnails?

Terry


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Adrian,

We have had two members in Bogota that have raised baby pigeons, I don't know if they are still contactable but hope they are..

Ingrid is one of them she is in Bogota and she says "
_Getting baby food for pigeons wasn't hard, (after all, Colombia is the country with the greatest number of bird species...so you can get ahold of almost anything)_

This is her thread, you could try e-mailing her to find out what she found and where.:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5810&referrerid=560

We also have Javier, his pigeons were three weeks old when he found them:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12920&referrerid=560

How is the baby this morning?

Cynthia


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Thank you for your concern. I don't know if it is dove or a pigeon really. At first I thought it might be one of the sparrow-like little birds that live here.  

The bird seemed to be doing badly this morning. I tried to feed it and he didn't even chirp. I couldn't get him to open his mouth. He wasn't even standing/sitting (what do you call that position?) well when I moved him. 

When I got home, not too long ago, he was much more responsive, and basically just fine. I fed him and he seemed okay. I tried syringe force feeding, with little success. I will still keep trying although I think my syringe is a tiny bit too small.

I'm pretty sure I haven't overfed him. In fact, his crop has never been completely hard and full in the last days. The food I'm giving him is not runny at all, it is quite thick. However I have been giving him water with a spoon and he has been drinking it (maybe it is a dove after all...)

His poop is sort of green, probably because yesterday I fed him mostly pea mush. (I didn't have another homemade formula at hand, since I decided to stop feeding the rice stuff after I read a post here)

Here's one of the pictures from yesterday:


If you want a specific picture of something specific, just let me know. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's dove or pigeon, one. It might help if you took a picture with a ruler or you could weigh him in grams and post that.

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

My mother has the camera, so I can't take pictures now. However, I measured him. He is about 7cm long (almost 3 inches).


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

And by that, you mean the essential length from beak-tip to tail as shown in that picture (reclining; head in normal position as in "not outstretched), right?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

> And by that, you mean the essential length from beak-tip to tail as shown in that picture (reclining; head in normal position as in "not outstretched), right?


Yes, indeed.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You wouldn't happen to have a scale to weigh him with or some other means of guessing at it, would you?

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

I don't really have a way to measure his weight. My guess (don't trust my guess much) is that he weighs about 150 or 200 grams.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That'd be about the same as 6 ounces of water and 8 ounces is "1 cup". Probably the most standard coffee cup size up here is 8 ounces although when you buy a fresh cup, it's often much bigger. I don't know what kind of styrofoam or paper cups you're used to, but the "normal" size is the 8 ounce (240 milliliters or grams, take your pick) size. A lot of disposable cups at water dispensers are half that size. You could take a small plastic bottle that has a milliliter amount written on it, proportion the correct amount of water and compare the weight of the water (and cup or plastic bottle) with the weight of the bird. In water, one milliliter is equal to one cc (cubic centimeter) and they're both equal to one gram.

Pidgey


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi again. I will try weighing him tomorrow. 

I read the thread about Javier (I think I got his name right). I found it useful. If he in fact released his doves into the wild, and knows where flocks are, I might want to contact him to know how and where to do it.

Today the pigeon/dove (?) was sort of drowsy. Like I already said, this morning I was worried he was dying and very weak. During the rest of the day he was basically asleep. To feed him, I had to spend a few minutes just waking him up. however, I have been able to feed him some, and more importantly, give him water. He seemed to have a lot of food in his crop (although it wasn't visibly full, never really has been visibly full) and he seemed to be having a hard time swallowing and getting it past his throat. Is there a problem or is this ok? What should I do about it? 

Also, I've seen somewhat less poop. My question is, what is a normal poop rate? I felt he ate well yesterday but he doesn't seem to be pooping much. Today I fed him less, as mentioned above, so I'm sort of confused.

Since I've been reading stuff on the internet, I've heard about growth spurts and introducing pigeons to bird seed. I would like to know when this is going to happen. Does anyone have an idea, based on my pictures, how old the bird is? I think it might be important so I know when to do certain things.

I will post tomorrow morning, or sooner if awake. Thanks, Adrian.


----------



## rzuur (Mar 3, 2007)

hi i'm adrians sister. i raised a baby pigeon when i was about 12 and she became a great friend to me. she sadly died from some sort of cancer when i was 18. i wish i lived near my brother so i could help him. anyhow i am glad for this forum you all know so much more than i do.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi rzuur,

It is good to know that caring about pigeons runs in the family! THey are such remarkable and individual birds.

Cynthia


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Doesn't sound like all is right with the baby. I don't like the fact that he doesn't respond with excitement to the feedings and he doesn't have too many poops.
Make sure the temperature of the feed is not too cold or too hot. It should be about 100F.
Also the water you are giving him should be on the warmer side. You can add a drop of apple cider vinegar to the water and formula. Make sure he is kept warm in his environment and please let us know how the baby is doing.

Reti


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Thank you Reti. I think it might be the temperature of the food and water. I have been leaving them next to the shoebox (changing them daily, of course), but didn't wonder about heating them. The pigeon itself is warm, he is under a lamp, although he has some socks put over the box if he wants to hide and sleep.

Furthermore, I just finished talking to 'Palomar Alamos' on the phone (Alamos Pigeon Home. Alamos is a neighborhood on the western edge of the city). They told me that there is no kind of baby bird formula currently in the market, so I should keep making my own. Also I asked them about releasing the pigeon into the wild and they said they could do it for me. They have flocks that go by there, and they could help my pigeon get integrated with one. I didn't understand all of what they said, but basically they know their stuff. They told me to call back if I needed help. It was very good.

The pigeon woke up fine today, but sleepy in the same way as yesterday. I will try warming the food the next time I feed him. I still am wondering about the growth spurts and that, but I'm more at ease with the pigeons situation. He seems healthy overall, even if he is sleepy.

Anyhow, I will post, tonight or tomorrow, a report on how the warming the food and syringe force feeding are doing. Thanks for the advice, Adrian.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

If you warm up the food in the microwave make sure the food doesn't get any "hot spots" that could burn his crop. I stir their food with my finger to make sure the temperature is ok. Also check the temperature where he is staying, he should not get overheated or get too cold. As he grows feathers he needs less heat.

Reti


----------



## rzuur (Mar 3, 2007)

i'm a little concerned about releasing the pigeon into the wild, the one i had because extremely tame and would land on anyones head who was in the house. also if allowed to would land near my cats (we generally made sure the cats where locked out of the room the pigeon was in). it doesn't seem ethical to me to set a bird free if it is so tame it will be eaten right away by a predator. maybe not all hand fed pigeons get so tame though?


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

I weighed him approximately by comparing him with water. I think he weighs about 60 grams.

Reneé, I've read things on the internet, from here and other places, about birds released back into the wild. I think it's possible, although maybe too hard in some cases (like yours). Anyway, like I said, I found a pigeon home that knows how to do it. If it's not possible to release him into the wild safely, they can keep him and care for him well. However, I would like to hear more about this issue.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi rzuur

No, not all hand fed babies become tame. We have rehabilitated many over the past 14 years and while they may be very tame initially, if they are put with other pigeons for a couple of months prior to release many become wild and want nothing more to do with you.

Of course, there are exceptions. Some become too tame for release. These are the birds that will continue to fly down to you in an aviary no matter how long they have been in there with other pigeons. We never release those.


----------



## rzuur (Mar 3, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Hi rzuur
> 
> No, not all hand fed babies become tame. We have rehabilitated many over the past 14 years and while they may be very tame initially, if they are put with other pigeons for a couple of months prior to release many become wild and want nothing more to do with you.


that is good to know. thank you


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

I will write something quick. I tried syringe force feeding warm food. It worked great. He was more alert than other times I fed him, and I heard him chirp, the first time in the last day or two, I think.

I have a question on syringe force feeding. When I try it, it seems that the pigeon doesn't open his beak wide enough to get any substantial amount of food in his body. This is why I was being careful about only feeding him this way, and why I was still feeding him with my hand. However, the pigeon does eat, and it looks like he's being satisfied with the food. My question is, am I doing the syringe force feeding right, or should the beak be wide open?

Anyway, right now I'm going to my Japanese class. I'll be back in two hours.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I had only two birds opening their beaks wide to eat, the rest all put up a fuss. 
As long as you get food down it's ok.

Reti


----------



## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I think that it is a good idea to prepare a fresh batch of food for each feeding, so you can avoid feeding the baby food with bacterial growth in it.


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Warm food made a great difference! Last night when I fed him, he was very active. He was chirping and flapping his wings and seemed to be very alive.

Thank you all for your help. Right now I feel I know how to care for this baby pigeon. 

I will post on this forum as soon as I have a question (which might be sooner than expected). Bye for now, Adrian.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so glad he is doing better.
We appreciate the updates.

Reti


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

Hello, it's me again. I just wanted to say that today the pigeon is trying to stand up. It's exciting. Today his legs seemed to be too long for his body. When I tried feeding him, we had a hard time getting him to stay still and be somewhat comfortable. He stretched his feet and it looked like he was having problems today. However, a few minutes ago when I fed him he tried standing up. He wasn't very successful, but now I understand why he was so uncomfortable. That's all for now.


----------



## azuur (Feb 28, 2007)

I have sad news. The pigeon just died. I went to the stadium to a soccer game. My mother fed it while I was away. When I tried feeding him after I got back, his neck was very weak. His face fell in front of him: Immediately my father and I got in the car, and took him to a vet. Just before we got there, he died. I'm not clear about why he died, but he did. It's sad, I was fond of that bird by now. Well, thank you all for your help. Good luck to all of you.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh no, I am so sorry. 
You did your best and really took good care of this little sweetie. 
There might have been something wrong with him from the beginning, we will never know.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear this.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is very sad, and hard on you. I know how quick it is to bond to a baby pigeon.

Cynthia


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm so sorry the baby didn't make it.
Many thanks to you *&* your folks for taking care of this little one. 

Cindy


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Azuur, I am truly sorry to read this about your baby pigeon. You did your best.


----------



## rzuur (Mar 3, 2007)

i'm sorry azuur. i will call you tomorrow i just saw this and it is to late there tonight i think.


----------

