# Question regarding medical condition....



## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

I caught another feral pigeon two days ago. He appears to be around 1 year old (molting feathers and good amount of teal and magenta around neck). He seemed to be out of energy, but I considered tric when I couldn't find any signs of physical trauma. I gave him standard re-hydration and time in my warm up box, then I fed him a full syringe of exact baby bird formula within a couple of hours. After that I fed him every 3-4 hours, again about a full syringe (16-18 cc), his crop felt empty each time before feeding. I held him all night to keep his head up, he acted like he was really tired and couldn't hold up his head, so I was concerned about possible respitory problems if I didn't. The next morning I took him to my avian vet and she couldn't find anything wrong either, but gave him a spartex pill...oh, I forgot, right after I couldn't find any problem, I gave him some enrofloxacin/nystatin just in case it was internal. Every 12 hours after that I have kept it going. He still seems totally out of energy and his weight is 289 grams - he seems about a small to medium build. In the warm up box, he lays next to a wooden stand I have for him to perch on and lays his head on the stand. I am feeding him every 3 hours (again a full syringe), continuing the meds, but after 2 days he doesn't seem to have improved much. Anyone have any ideas?? He does rarely twitch his head, but he doesn't exhibit any of the symptoms of pPMV-1, and I am stumped. Ron Howard, Avian Rescue Corp (aka Cockatiel Rescue)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Did you find him just laying around or did you have to chase him down? What do the poops look like? How much is he pooping?

Pidgey


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

So, no sign of trich and his mouth looks clear, no obvious respiratory symptoms. Is his mouth a normal pink/red color? If there is a blueish or grayish tinge to his mouth or tongue, it _could_ still mean a respiratory problem.

He is underweight for an adult, even a hen or small male, I'd estimate. We reckon on getting a bird up to minimum 300 grams before considering it in reasonable shape.

If his crop is functioning OK, it is possible he may have worms, which could weaken him and affect his weight.

John


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## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

*more information...*

his poop was a normal green color with the white urite stripe. Not a bunch of them (3-5) and small in size. Once the formula starting passing through, there was more liquid and the poop went to brown, normal condition.

His mouth and throat seemed to be a normal pinkish/red with no grey, purple or white/yellowish coloration/material.

I consider 300 grams a good mean point, but I usually find the pigeons well below this weight. I caught him in by net, he had little to no power to flee. He was sitting by my back door, not unusual location.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's nice when they come directly to your house instead of making you look for them all over the city.

I've got some ferals that don't make 300 grams when they're healthy and well-fed. It's probably a better test to feel their keels to see how thin (the flesh surrounding the bone) they are.

Other things that you can do for diagnostic purposes right now include noting his respiration rate (his body should be bobbing up and down for that one, although sometimes you have to watch the tail and other times you can watch the chest expanding). It should be about 30 breaths per minute for a healthy bird at rest. If it's significantly above that then you know there's some kind of problem.

You can also take their armpit temperature by putting a human thermometer under their armpit (?wingpit?) and holding their wing down over it. You have to make sure that the bulb is pressed to the skin but you don't have to make them uncomfortable with the pressure. Depending on what kind of thermometer it is (electronic vs. the old mercuy type), it can take a good while for it to finally show the right temperature. It'll be at least five minutes for the old kind and maybe one to two for one of the new eletronic kind. It should show about 107 degrees F, maybe even higher. If it's a lot below that, you should keep trying. When birds get an illness that would give us a fever, it usually causes them to go colder instead, kind of a reverse fever. There's only a very few things (are rare, to boot) that will give them a true fever.

Pidgey


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## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

*keel...*

That's one of the first things I check, and it was very slender, so I expected a food problem. Trouble is, I just tried to feed him after 3.5 hours and his crop didn't empty out this time, so I'm waiting another hour. I am concerned, the last time I had a crop stop emptying out, the bird died from some sort of respitory problem. I'll check out his breathing rate the next time I go to feed him. His head was shaking a bit this time while I held him...has anyone had a pigeon during the very early stage of PMV? I usually get them well into the problem and he is exhibiting, or seems to be, a neurological problem that I have seen with PMV, but nothing so slight.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There are some cases of severe PMV that can kill. Phil had some that were very depressed and literally passed away while not moving much. I'm no expert but I think that can happen with a severe dose of the virus early on. I'll see if I can find those original threads.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's that thread of Phil's:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=22062

Pidgey


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## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

*medical question...*

thanks for the thread. some of what phil describes is in this pigeon, i'm holding him now, so no capital letters. i had another one die last year, while i held him, and the liquid from the mouth was present. it appeared to be aspiration and i'm in hell trying to understand if i did all i could, or did i even cause it. upon catching this guy, i started with liquid enroflaxen/nystatin combo. not seeing any problem automatically sent me into thinking about a crop statis, so i started treating for it. his crop has emptied this time too, but it took longer, so i went back to a 3 to 1 mixture to give him more water.

i spoke several times with phil, but years ago. i sort of remember him mentioning having to move, but whatever happened to him. i thought about going to visit him for a week or so, to try and soak up some of his knowledge.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

ronhoward said:


> His head was shaking a bit this time while I held him...has anyone had a pigeon during the very early stage of PMV? I usually get them well into the problem and he is exhibiting, or seems to be, a neurological problem that I have seen with PMV, but nothing so slight.


With some pigeons, the first neurological sign of PMV can be a very fine and only just noticeable tremor of the head, which may not be followed by more obvious symptoms for a few days.

John


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## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

*medical question...*

thanks for the information. He's about the same today, only gaining a slight bit of weight, perhaps from his crop not emptying, or from the food actually getting into his system. The flicker of the head is the same, occasionally for a moment, then gone. He seems alert, but stumbles a lot, as if he doesn't have any balance. No circling, no head reversal, nothing else to indicate anything. Time will tell.

Where is Phil??


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