# Indiana is egg bounded



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Please help.
For 1 hr Indiana cannot stand up on her feet. I when touch her vent and white liquid is on my hand. She was mating with her mate for a while.
Does it mean the egg broke inside?
I don't have wheat germ oil? What can i drop in the vent to soften the egg shells. I would assume is broken becaus eof the white stuff.
This is the site i am following:
http://www.roller-pigeon.com/Roller_Pigeon_Feature_Article.html


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Is the white stuff shell material?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks Charis for quick reply.
I don't want her to die.
The white liquid is with a few bubbles of air. Like spit. It was not white, was on my hand transparent liquid with few bulles of air. She cannot stand on her feet, she came out of the nest and you see in the pic.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Okay...get a towel or wash cloth...put it under hot water and wring it almost dry. Put the towel on a heating pad on low and put her on it. 
She also needs calcium w vitamin d3. Do you have any of that?
This is an instance where metacam would be beneficial.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Okay...get a towel or wash cloth...put it under hot water and wring it almost dry. Put the towel on a heating pad on low and put her on it.
> She also needs calcium w vitamin d3. Do you have any of that?
> This is an instance where metacam would be beneficial.


I do not have heating pad, i will use rice instead.
I have vitamins powder. They've been on vitamins last week.

I am going to heat up the rice..i'll be back..what's next?
Should i give her vit to drink now?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

can you buy Tums in Canada?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

She needs calcium and not regular vitamins. That's why I asked about Tums. It's a good way to quickly get calcium into a pigeon that needs it.
Do you have people calcium?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> can you buy Tums in Canada?


i AM GOING TO THE sHOPPERSDRUG MART. iT 11 PM.. i THINK IS OPEN UNTIL 12.
I will buy a heating pad and Tums, anythig else?
She is on the heated rice with damp towel. I didn't feel at the vent any more liquid. Is it normal before she lays egg to have a liquid come out? Is this like a placenta in humans?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I don't know. I usually don't mess with hens that are about to lay unless they have been at it a while.
Get *regular* Tums not extra strength.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> I don't know. I usually don't mess with hens that are about to lay unless they have been at it a while.
> Get *regular* Tums not extra strength.


cHARIS, I didn't mess with her.. I noticed she couldn't stand while she was out of nest..then i took her and touch gently and had liquid...My pigeons are my childern.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I wasn't implying you were messing with her. I was telling you that I don't....i leave them totally alone unless I notice there may be a problem, such as they have been in the nest for a long time with no egg.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I am back, she's on the heating pad on low in my bedroom. i passed gently my hand underneath her and no sign of any wetness.
I went to the place where she was sitting as in the first pic above when i picked her up first time and felt the liquid. Here's what i found:
What do i do with Tums.. I also bought Ibuprofen for childern liquid and tea tree oil if there's any use of these ones.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Children's ibuphofhen and tea tree oil are both toxic.
That isn't shell material b ut urin.
What is the strength of the tums?
How long has she been trying to lay the egg?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Children's ibuphofhen and tea tree oil are both toxic.
> That isn't shell material b ut urin.
> What is the strength of the tums?
> How long has she been trying to lay the egg?


She was out of the fake eggs this week..Monday or tuesday. I didn't see her in the nest yesterday, only today when my pigeons come out she didn't come, she was with her mate in the nest. then 2-3 hours later she was at the windows, couldn't keep her balance.
She puked seeds this morning. My BF said it must be normal, just like woman when they are pregnant ( i didn't but that)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Give her half a Tums. You will probably need to cut it into smaller pieces to give it to her. Keep her warm with the barely damp towel underneath her and let her rest.
It sounds like she is right on schedule to lay an egg. My hens lays 5-7 days after leaving the nest.
If you don't have any, please buy some calcium with vitamin D3. They need it every day.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Children's ibuphofhen and tea tree oil are both toxic.
> That isn't shell material b ut urin.
> What is the strength of the tums?
> How long has she been trying to lay the egg?


I touched the " urin" . It's like a thin paint. As you rub your fingers with it, it spreads as paint. I pray is urine. When i put her on heating pad, i touch her toes which where dangling, like having no feeling in them. She's not puffed up, doesn't breath unusual.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The egg is probably pushing on her sciatic nerve. I remember when this happened to my Romey. I was freaked out too. It's much harder when it's your own beloved bird.
I'm sure it's urine...sorry I spelled it incorrectly.
Did you give her the Tums?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> The egg is probably pushing on her sciatic nerve. I remember when this happened to my Romey. I was freaked out too. It's much harder when it's your own beloved bird.
> I'm sure it's urine...sorry I spelled it incorrectly.
> Did you give her the Tums?


I did not. I don't know if i should bother her, She is standing up on the heating pad now and there's that white liquid hanging out of her vent. Is this normal?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do give her the Tums now and clean her vent with a tissue.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Do give her the Tums now and clean her vent with a tissue.


I found Calcium with D3 500 mg derived from oyster shells.
What do i give now?

Thank you thank you.. i have no words to express . i am so glad you are here.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dima said:


> I found Calcium with D3 500 mg derived from oyster shells.
> What do i give now?
> 
> Thank you thank you.. i have no words to express . i am so glad you are here.


Ca & d3 are pills.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dima..only give the Tums now. 
You are very welcome. 
Again, I know how scary this is. You try to get some rest too.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Dima..only give the Tums now.
> You are very welcome.
> Again, I know how scary this is. You try to get some rest too.


Thanks Charis. 
How can i rest? My life is so complicated with recuing pigeons. I had no time to eat today. And now, my own pigeons need my help. I wouldn't close on eye for Indiana.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Try to rest. She can sense how you feel and so be as calm as you can. You have done all possible.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Try to rest. She can sense how you feel and so be as calm as you can. You have done all possible.


Ok, i will rest beside her. I gave her tums.She seems fine now. Standing and her tail slowly moving. When i walked out the door she came out of her nest to go to the living room were her mate is. I think she will make it. I panicked about that urine. It's always good to learn something. Too bad it has to be the hard way.

Much appreciated your immense support.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Daytime came and Indiana kept coming out of her nest to her mate..She walks little and then sits down. So i decided to get the nest with the heating pad and put it to their home where her mate was waiting for her.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you put the heating pad underneath her in the nest? That's how it would benefit her.
I would also give her 1/4 tums now.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> Can you put the heating pad underneath her in the nest? That's how it would benefit her.
> I would also give her 1/4 tums now.


Yes, Charis, as you can see there's a wire in the nest; the heating pad is underneath. Her poop smelled weird. I am thinking it's the tum from yesterday. I just had a young pigeon laying for the first time her egg this morning. Indiana laid eggs for at least 2-3 times this year, why would this happen. It's the probiotics, the new vit i gave them in the water. Before i wasn't give them any of these and she was fine.
I will give her 1/4 tum.
Thanks.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Help..i changed the cloth which was underneath Indiana and i found something that looks like skin.. I cleaned it and it looks like skin bubble. What are those. there are 2 balloons, one round th eothe rthe shape of a kidney.


























Now she's out of her nest. Trying to keep balance on her feet with her mate watching her closely. I would think it's a good sign.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

OH! Looks like an egg broke. And it looks as though it never got hard. At least that is what it looks like. You were right. It was more than just urine.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> OH! Looks like an egg broke. And it looks as though it never got hard. At least that is what it looks like. You were right. It was more than just urine.


What you said it's a relieve.
No broken egg shells inside her!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, as long as she has passed everything. If anything is left behind she can get an infection.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I still don't think that what you were seeing last night was egg material.

You didn't see any yellow yoke yesterday and just a bit that passed today and so I would start her on antibiotic to keep her from getting infection.

Dima...coccidia can cause egg problems in pigeons too. Have you ever treated her for coccidia? If you haven't, I think it would be a good idea.

You know she's going to lay again soon so she has got to get the calcium and vitamin d3.

I'm really glad she got it out. I hope you sleep tonight.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> I still don't think that what you were seeing last night was egg material.
> 
> You didn't see any yellow yoke yesterday and just a bit that passed today and so I would start her on antibiotic to keep her from getting infection.
> 
> ...


Hi Charis, i think she's better. She was out of her nest, trying to keep balance and she tried hard and she did it. Only that her mate is following her, he is not an agressive one to peck at her, but when she woul sit down he wanted to mate. I don't like to keep them separate.. As long as she is in the nest her mate is a gentleman.
I did give her Ca & D3 this evening. 
They were treated them with a Electrolyte with Vit last week. On the package said for cocci. also But last 2 days there were on probiotics.

It's 1 am..and i will definitely sleep sound. I will read futher posts tomorrow at work.
Thank you for help..she made it, Tums worked..but it's not over as you said.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Glad to hear the crisis is past, for now 

I have a hen who lays eggs like this, and I've never figured out why. It used to happen once in a while, but this past summer, she started laying these eggs regularly, and she was getting really run down from it. The last one she laid seems to have broken inside her -- she passed the yolk and some skin, much like your picture -- and had a hard time passing it.

I ended up separating her from her mate and housing her solo so that she'd stop laying (which she did, thankfully). I was afraid it was going to kill her if that happened again. 

I've supplemented her with calcium and vitamin d regularly, so that isn't the problem.

If you figure out what is causing the problem, I'd love to know. Sometimes it can be an infection in the oviduct ... and certain viruses can cause this, too. (Infectious bronchitis, and also a duck adenovirus, that pigeons can get).


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm going to start a thread on this specifically and see if anyone has any suggestions.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

She is on CA & D3...Today i will start administering Triple Sulfa for any oviduct infection.

I put a fake egg underneath her so her mate doesn't bother her. They should take turns. It will brake my heart to separate them. Her mate is very sensitive and he may end up being sick. 

It seems that there shouldn't be any broken egg inside her. Those skins was the eggs. What happened to her it's almost like an abortion in humans .


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You don't need to separate them, Dima. Even if you did separate them, you would need to move one of them so she couldn't even hear him. Otherwise, she will still lay.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> You don't need to separate them, Dima. Even if you did separate them, you would need to move one of them so she couldn't even hear him. Otherwise, she will still lay.


That's interesting. Why would she lay again if she doesn't mate?
I did not separate them, but i put the fake egg so they would not mate, hopefully.

I found her out of her nest preening her feathers. She walks slowly as if her hips are bothering her.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They become stimulated from just the sound of their mate's voice and will lay.
She probably is sore and so she needs a few days to feel better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, they don't have to actually mate to have eggs. Lone pigeons that are peoples pets will often view the person they are close to as a mate. When this happens, a female pigeon will often lay eggs for the person that she perceives to be her mate.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Birds do not need to mate to lay eggs, just look at the number of single pet birds that lay eggs for their caregiver "mate". 
Sometimes it is not for a while, and the length of time can sometimes fool you into thinking the bird is male, but when the bird feels comfortable with a partner (human or bird) then they can lay.
I had a friend who had a single male African Grey Parrot for 18 years.
Sadly he died (the friend), and his daughter took the parrot to her own house to look after it. The parrot was very distressed and quiet for about two weeks then one morning it laid an egg !!!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Birds do not need to mate to lay eggs, just look at the number of single pet birds that lay eggs for their caregiver "mate".
> Sometimes it is not for a while, and the length of time can sometimes fool you into thinking the bird is male, but when the bird feels comfortable with a partner (human or bird) then they can lay.
> I had a friend who had a single male African Grey Parrot for 18 years.
> Sadly he died (the friend), and his daughter took the parrot to her own house to look after it. The parrot was very distressed and quiet for about two weeks then one morning it laid an egg !!!


That means the parrot liked the daughter?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Dima, they don't have to actually mate to have eggs. Lone pigeons that are peoples pets will often view the person they are close to as a mate. When this happens, a female pigeon will often lay eggs for the person that she perceives to be her mate.


Lol..No wonder Butterfly (it's a pigeon) laid an egg beside my bed. I thought she fooled around with the males, which i have never seen her.
She on eof those pigeons who eats air between my fingers.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Dima said:


> That means the parrot liked the daughter?


Yep, but she certainly didnt mate with it lol


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Yep, but she certainly didnt mate with it lol


 Yes, i believe you. 
That's why i have BF
LOL. I glad the pigeons cannot read. They will be very disappointed about our discussion.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dima said:


> Lol..No wonder Butterfly (it's a pigeon) laid an egg beside my bed. I thought she fooled around with the males, which i have never seen her.
> She is one of those pigeons who eats air between my fingers.


Butterfly laid the second egg. It's it first time to lay eggs. The one at the left is fake ( i replaced it) , but the one at the right is bloody..there's also some dripps of blood on the shredded paper. 
She is out of her nest wandering around; looks fine.
Is it normal?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, when they first start laying.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

"Eating air between the fingers" is the equivalent of billing with a mate -- I have a hen who does that with me, and she does lay eggs too (I suppose I should be sitting them!) 

My little soft-shelled layer tends not to lay unless she is housed with a mate -- she was solo for a while before and didn't lay for quite some time, but then started laying again when I put her in with another hen for company, and they bonded.

I hope this was just a one time thing for your hen, Dima, and that it doesn't happen again.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Dima,
I hope Indiana recovers soon. This post is so painful to read... 

Thank goodness the egg shell and some gooey stuff have passed out from the bird! Hopefully, there is no infection. Keep the meds going.

I really wonder what causes this? If enough sunlight and calcium have been given, what could possibly be the reason? Perhaps a healthy dose of vitamins, calcium and minerals given continuously should help? I wonder if a bird's emotional setting is a factor as well? A stressed hen may find laying difficult - soothing words and a gentle touch may help? I don't know, I'm just speculating...

When my Krikky was laying, I was a nervous wreck - checking on her every 10 minutes. I would stroke her back, whisper to her, telling her it will be ok and how much I love her, etc, which she seems to appreciate by nuzzling her beak between my fingers. Thankfully, she laid well, and had such energy straight after laying both eggs. All the while, I upped her grit intake and she ate them from my hands - lots of them! I still feed her extra grit and she seem to crave for grit even days after her lay.

So based on that experience, I'm concluding that perhaps extra grit and soothing words may help a troubled hen.

I hope all goes well for Indiana and Butterfly. Do take care!

PS: I realized some pigeons may not allow a human to touch them... so I guess in this instance, just a soothing voice will do. I believe birds do understand us when we talk to them. Well at least mine does?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Miss Sassypants, i know what you mean. As soon as the problem started i took her in my room on the heating pad. But as sick as she was, she hardly could walk and keep her balance, when there was some light , she would come out of her nest and i would find her on the floor by the door. She wanted to be back with her mate. She loves him alot. And her mate trilions time more. He is a gentleman. He is not agressive with her, as some males peck constantly at their mates to get them in the nest, especially when they are about to lay eggs. When i saw her barely moving and falling down and not in her nest, her mate was beside her gently poking her head not understanding what happens.
Later next day i put the nest back to where the mate is, with the heating pad and i provided beside them with seeds. They are a wonderful pair. They take turns while eating and he loves to look a her eating. Below is a video. What i mean to say is that if they have a mate, their mate (if it's a good one) will do more than what humans can do when regards to giving affection. She was unhappy with me beside her and she would crawl out of her nest when i got close to her.

The problem was lack of Ca. . which i gave her since last week. They have grit all the time from Oyster shells, but they hardly touch it.

And great news, today she laid her first egg...

http://s1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii512/Margareta11/?action=view&current=IndianaPata.mp4


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's the new egg. Calcium did the work.

The pigeon - happy couple:


















Thank you everyone for the help and concern.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They're so cute! I'm glad she's doing better.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Excellent news, and a beautiful egg!


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

What a gorgeous pair! And such beautiful shiny egg! Well done!


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