# Poor Woodie Can't Stand.



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I found this poor Woodie at the 'sanctuary'. He was terrified, crammed up in a corner on the ground.
The staff were burning wood outside the aviary and he wouldn't move away like the others had.
I went in and picked him up and it was awful to see the state of his vent area. He must have been lying there for days as he was so caked in poop and it had dried hard in his feathers. I showed the lads and they just said 'oh he won't last long, looks like he's going rotten'.
How I keep my mouth shut.. I took the poor thing to a tap and did what I could to free it up. The skin was sore and the majority of the feathers came away as they were caked hard in a massive lump.
When I put him down to see what he'd do, I realised he couldn't walk properly and was pulling himself along to get to shelter.
I told them they couldn't leave him like that, but their only suggestion was to throw him on the bonfire. Supposed to be a joke but they had no interest in helping. So.... I brought him home.

I've not been able to clean him completely yet but have him in a carrier with food and water in the warm. I put him in the bathroom where my other Woodie has free run in the day and at least they appreciated seeing a like soul.
I tried to see what use he had in his legs and they just feel very stiff but I can't feel any breaks. One leg seems worse than the other and he falls on the one side and manages to move along by pushing with the better leg and his wings.
The one foot is curled up but he did move the toes when I cleaned it. I wonder if that is why he isn't using his leg.

Because of dragging himself along the skin on his keel bone is worn away and his feathers are matted on his chest.

I don't really know what I can do for him.
After reading the thread about March, I wondered if there were any natural remedies that would be good for him. I want to see if there is any way of getting some use back in his leg, perhaps some physio aswell.
Of course he may have a back injury but I don't know how to tell that.
Any suggestions as to how to deal with this would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Is his vent empty? Could there be something pressing on a nerve?

I think that there is a chance of recovery, or partial recovery at least. At least he has some function in his legs. I have seen worse...but that is an awful, uncaring place.

My booklet on homeopathy has a section on paralysis. I will copy it for you.

If he needs a permanent home he can come here. Have a look at Maria's (taralotti) thread, yours and hers could be company for each other.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

I'll have a good look over him tomorrow and check out his vent. Thanks for the tip.
I'm going to order that book but have been poorly the past few days and haven't been out. If you can copy that relevant bit in the meantime, that would be a great help.
I want to use some soap or something to really get this muck off. He'll not have many feathers after but it needs to come off. He is so sweet and just lets me do whatever, probably cause he's so fed up.

That place is a disgrace. I did speak to the RSPB a while ago. I called pretending to need a place to take a rescued bird. They gave me their number. I said that I was horrified that they were recommending people to it and proceeded to tell them what it was like in the hope they would stop using it. Unfortunately the local vet sends birds there aswell, so it's difficult to stop birds coming in.
You know what was doubly disgusting, there were six members of staff messing about cooking bread over the flames, and none of the birds had any food. You can see why I have to keep going. There were still three more injured Woodies left behind. (sorry about the rant).

I did think as I was reading that thread about March how alike their problems seemed. That's why I thought there might be something I could try.
I'm in awe of the way Maria has helped him, March is a very lucky bird. What about that aviary, March could have lots of friends!! 

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Have you got any hibiscrub? 

Yes, that aviary is beautiful. I wish Maria was staying in the UK.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Yes I have Hibiscrub, would that be better than soap?

I did put in my last post that we'd have to talk Maria out of moving, then I deleted it in case she thought I only wanted her for her aviary !!!

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Yes I have Hibiscrub, would that be better than soap?


Maybe not, I read the instructions and it said something about keeping it away from body cavities...soap might be too solid and too perfumed, but how about a bit of Fairy Liquid?

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Good idea, will try that instead, well Tescos best anyway.

Janet


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Bless you for taking this poor woody home with you! How awful to read that he, and other birds are not being cared for properly. I was particularly saddened about the comment regarding the bird being 'fit for the bonfire'. How can people like that who obviously show no compassion for wildlife, work in such an environment?! Thank goodness for people like you who really do care! Thank you!

Sending my thoughts and prayers that this woody recovers soon.

Lindi


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Lindi Thank You.

Hi,

Well he had a good bath and got most of the mess away. Unfortunately he has very bad smelling poops, brown but not a lot of white and slightly soft.

Should I give him any meds straight away or wait and see if they improve.
I've given him ACV in his water and tomorrow will give him Potent Brew.

I held his underside gently in a bowl of soapy water to help the poop dissolve and he did a very good job of kicking his legs. So he can move them, but soon withdraws them when I put him down.

The claw on the back toe of his bad leg is loose I think. I moved the toe to see if it would straighten. It did but it sort of clicks as I move it, so I wondered if it was broken in some way. I can move the claw which I can't on the other toes. He curls it up again.
I was wondering about putting a small straw or such like, cut to size on it as a splint to keep it straight and see if it would rectify itself. I don't want to hurt him though if it's a permanent injury.


Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I would use the Potent Brew first. I decided to try probiotics before antibiotics in cases of diarrhoea early this year and it worked. Then when I was reading the literature at the vet's office I found out that this is also their approach.

Cynthia


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Janet,

In 2005 I rescued a female pigeon, *Splitbeak*, who had a golf ball-sized clump of rock hard poop (from accumulated layers of diarrhea) stuck to her keel. She had previous bouts of diarrhea because of her split beak. Left half of upper beak dangled from a piece of flesh; right upper beak was mostly gone; but she could pick up food by laying her head sideways to the ground. She had trouble walking because of her legs bumping against the poop, couldn't get seeds or food fast enough, and was getting weaker when I finally caught her. Spent a half hour to an hour in the shower with her to get the poop off. She struggled mightily to escape; didn't want to drown or choke.

After she put on weight for a week or so and regaining her health, she chose to fly out the window to join her flock. She was very restless indoors, once she felt healthy. I rendezvoused with her to secretly let her feed from a jar of seeds, until the day came when I no longer saw her.

She had an extra four or five months of living an almost normal street life. A few days before her disappearance she actually joined the flock for a few minutes in their flight when a raptor came by, instead of her usual hunching down under tree cover and dashing to nearby safety. She was part of her flock again. 

I have written a number of posts about her, but what i want to share is that from her I also learned that a pigeon can make an amazing recovery from a disabling situation, and enjoy life.

Don't give up! 

Wishing you and your rescues the best. 

Don't know what to say about that "sanctuary" which would add much to what you and others think of it. Maybe they should change the name to "hell hole" or "dead-end trap for the helpless." "Sanctuary" used to refer to a holy place, a place one could use as a refuge or place of safety. Words get misused and abused, and lose their proper original meanings.

How people treat animals is indicates how they will eventually treat other humans, and themselves. Abusing animals destroys one's ability to love, and one's awareness that such a thing is happening. Well, enough of my opinions.

Larry


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Cynthia, that's interesting, will do that.

Larry thanks for your thoughts. I absolutely hate going there. I spout off about it enough. Yet it could be such a lovely place, set in a wood, lots of large aviaries with room to fly for the birds of prey. It's the people that make or break it.
I pray as I drive down the path that there aren't any new birds before I get there, sadly there usually are.
I have ended up calling it the 'sanctuary', but the reason I put apostrophies around the word is to emphasise my disdain for the place.

That's a really wonderful story about Splitbeak, that's everything I could wish for any I find, just to see them free as they should be. I've never had one that was able to go free... yet, I still live in hope.
But ..if they can never go free, to at least be amongst their own kind, with good food, a clean habitat, and as comfortable as they can be with any disabilities.

I wish you the same for your birds too.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Janet,I hope woodie gets better, I feel so sorry for the poor bird. I do dislike very much haw those people are with the pigeons and their bad jokes are so inappropriate, makes me wander why are they even there.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I am so pleased. I just went to change her bedding, food etc. She was fairly clean as she had stayed put, resting on the towel nest, so must feel a lot better for that. She's also a lot fluffier after her wash and blow wave yesterday.

Before I put her back in the carrier I held her up in my hands and she kicked away with her legs. Amazing what little things please you!!
Then I put her on the carpet to see how she moved today, and she managed to walk a few steps. It was just like the first time my girls walked, I was so excited. ( I really am getting worse). 

She did about four steps and then fell forward onto her stomach, and then she got a second wind and pottered right across the room to find a corner to hide in.
She looked so funny, just like some small mechanical toys my girls had when they were little, you wind them up and they scoot along.
She walks very flat on the back of her legs, not upright, and uses her wings for balance, and has made no attempt to flap her wings at all, but it's a start.

Notice I've started calling her 'her', she is so quiet and obliging at the moment for a Woodie, she must be a girl! Apart from the smelly poops that is.

Also have given her Potent Brew in her water, syringed her some first so I know she's had some in case she's fussy about the smell.

I do hope this is progress.

Janet


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Dear Janet

I am pleased to read about the progress of your woodie and I am so happy to see that there are still human beings with a real open heart on this planet..
I know excactly how you feel as my baby March had such a terrible time after this car accident and every day since his accident (8th September) I have been feeling all his emotions. 
I have been very busy with him so, not much time to follow other threads. Hopefully, he will get even better.
As Cynthia suggested I truely believe homeopathy really works on all animals and unlike orthodox medication, there are no side effects but the remedies work alongside the immune system.
I also believe probiotics and proper nutrition can restore health and the right PH in the blood. Paster's and modern medical theory of microbes is completely out of date and has contibuted to many early deaths or unwanted side effects. Bacteria, viruses, fungi and other pathogens are everywhere but they can only cause problem when the blood PH is out of balance. In other words, if you try to maintain the right environment in your body, you will never have any problems with any microbes. Microbes are not the bad guys, they are the scavengers of our bodies and are trying to help when toxic load gets too much for our body to get rid off. 

March is on organic seeds and green vegetables, sprouts and I give him Evian mineral water! As we also eat mostly organic (vegan) food and the cats have only organic freshly cooked vegetarian food and some vegetarian dried food (Ami an Italian manufacturer, imported by Veggiepets), March and Alfie (canary) could not be treated differently. 
If it has worked for all of us, it must make a difference to March's health.

Thanks for your comments about the Aviary. I think March has settled down very well but he is looking forward to moving in the open area. I feel bad to keep him in the cabin all the time but his injured wing gets hurt every time he flaps his wings on the floor (this is the reason I covered the cabin floor with straw). He has caused a wound on the curve of this wing and it bleeds when he hits the floor.

Please do not wish me to stay in the UK. I really want to move to New Zealand as my dream is to buy a house in nature with a few acres of land and accommodate lots of animals. Just think how many more animals I will be able to save and help when my dream comes true! I will have an even better aviary there and I can be your contact in New Zealand!
As I said, this beautiful aviary will be donated to a GOOD sanctuary, unless Cynthia, who has offered to adopt March, has moved to a new bigger place and finds room for it.

Please dear friends pray for this dream. It is for a good reason!!

Take Care
Maria, March and animal family


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Maria,

I understand totally your wish to move to New Zealand, and it was purely selfish reasons that I wished you would stay!
My husband asked me two years ago if I would consider moving there with our two daughters. His brother fell in love with it and bought some land a few years back, built a lovely house overlooking the lakes in Queenstown, at the base of the mountains. He lives there during our winter and hopes to eventually move for good when he sells his business here and has the money to do so. He adores the life there.
My girls are at the peak of their education here and unless we all went, I couldn't go, just too late for us sadly. Turn the clock back, together with the ability to see how things would go in this country, and I would be there now.
I wish you all the luck in the world with the move.

I understand the problems with March damaging himself, I have another Woodie that has been with me for a long time. He has a permanent injury on his elbow which is taking forever to heal due to the flapping he does when I have to handle him. He really just hasn't helped himself. He has calmed a little lately, maybe getting used to the routine, as I have no choice but to pick him up when his box needs cleaning etc. He will never fly again although he thinks so, bless him. I have had to keep him in an adapted cardboard box that I have added a grill to so he can see out. This is so he can't hurt himself any more than necessary, but it is not right for him long term.

I was wondering how long you had used natural remedies. My wish is to learn more about their use but feel it must take a long time to reach the stage of being able to use them solely with confidence.
The problem in an emergency, is the time factor for me, as it would be trial and error being a novice, and some instances need immediate action and results, ie; for cat attacks where salmonella infection can take the bird within 24 hours or less. Are there any instances where you would use other medications now?

I will send for the book Cynthia recommended, and hope to try to use them more. I enjoy reading your posts and look forward to hearing how March enjoys life with his new friend. That will probably help his healing and feeling of wellbeing. Best of Luck.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I've been watching little Woodie moving again today and it seems she's not too bad on her left foot/leg now. She walks on the back of her legs, not upright.
However, her right toes, especially the middle toe just sticks out straight, she doesn't curl it up or grip with it.
I found a piece of a branch from the garden and put her on it to see if she would perch. I left her in the carrier and placed the perch inside her towel nest. I was hoping that maybe she would try and use her foot to grip. Difficult to know whether it is damaged, or like that because she's sat on the ground for so long, that it has gone stiff.

Doesn't try and use her wings either.

She poops for England and has been on Potent Brew, so they aren't quite as smelly now.

I've been trying to read up on homeopathy treatments for stiff legs and feet problems to see if I can improve those. If Taralotti reads this, can you give me some advice on what I can try.

Thanks

Janet


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Janet

I just noticed your message. I am glad little Woodie is feeling better. I think with this kind of serious injuries we must be patient and give them all the time, love and encouragement we can.
I am not a trained homoeopath and I use the remedies after studying some books on homoeopathy, especially, George Macleod's: Cats: Homoeopathic remedies. My experience comes from our cats and ourselves and luckily, I did not have to deal with a case of paralysis or serious nerve damage. However, I am not afraid to try new remedies, considering that homoeopathy is very safe and in the worst case you do not see any improvement.
I keep March still on a combination of Arnica 200 (1 pillule), Ruta Grav. 30 (2), Hypericum 1M (1) in the morning and in the evening Symphytum 200 (1), Ruta Grav 30 (2), Hypericum 1M or 30 (1) depending on the way I feel about his pain/ discomfort. 

I do not know what the book on birds recommends on nerve problems / paralysis but I have been looking on Macleod's book and some suggestions are Lathyrus 200c or Gelsemium 200c or Angustura Vera 30c.
I was reading too about them because I thought to add something else for March to see if it will help with the nerves and healing of his legs. 
I always tend to talk to the staff of Helios over the phone and they are helpful and advise on the most suitable one.
I am going to call them tomorrow and I will let you know what their advice was.If you decide to call and order yourself, HELIOS tel no is :01892537254.

I also continue probiotics, avian multivitamins, systemajuv, trace minerals. Today I added a drop of echinacea in the solution.
March looked very lively today and he adores his chopped organic greens (watercress, spinach, rocket, young mung bean sprout leaves). Please try to see if Woodie likes them as they are extremely nutritious and will help her body build up immunity and strength.You must cut them in tiny little pieces. Unlike dried seeds, greens are live food full of enzymes, minerals, vitamins and phytonutrients. 

I hope this helps but I will let you know what I will finally try for March tomorrow after I talk to Helios staff.

Have a good evening.

With Loving thoughts
Maria


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Maria,

Thank you for that info. I haven't been able to get that specific bird book yet as it said it was unavailable. I'm going to try to see if Waterstones can order it. I found an article on the internet which relates to birds and luckily it does outline certain general problems found with birds.
It's a blog on: Care 2 - Homeopathy Treatment For Birds.

I want to buy a basic stock and pleased you've answered that question. I was going to ask you a good place to order on line.

Thanks again, hope to hear back from you later.

Janet


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Janet

I just called HELIOS. It is a homoeopathic pharmacy, so their prices are very good. They stock various sizes and the smallest is 4grm bottles. I usually buy the 8 grm bottles for common remedies like Arnica, Hypericum, Aconite, etc as they are used often in emergencies for many problems. They last for years if you store them in a dry dark place,away from smells, so they are not usually wasted. I use them for the cats, ourselves, any rescues or friends and neighbours, if they have something I feel I can advise them and offer them some of my pillules.

They charge for postage (last time is was 2.16) but they deliver next day or within 2-3 days if you have a large order. It would be better if you make a list of all your basic remedies so you save the postage every time.
I would recommend Arnica 200, Hypericum 1M, Hypericum 30, Aconite 10M, Ruta Grav. 30, Arsen Alb. 30, Carbo Veg. 200 (you can literally bring back a nearly dead animal / person with this remedy), Rhus tox 30, Nux Vomica 30, to start with as a basic emergencies stock.

Symphytum 200 is good for bone fractures. Calendula 30 is good for healing of the skin and wounds especially combined with Arnica and Hypericum.

The advisor on the phone had not specific experience on the remedies recommended by Macleod on nerves and paralysis. He only had heard of Gelsemium and Causticum. He advised on Arnica and Hypericum but I told him I had already put March under them from the biginning and I was now looking to add one more in addition to them to help any injuries on spine / nerves of legs.

I decided to buy all the ones in Macleod's book and try to see which one will help him more. I will not mix them but only add one at a time for a few days to a week and see how he is doing. 
So, I ordered Gelsemium 200c (3 times per week for 4 weeks in the book).
I will start with this one and continue with the rest if no improvement.
Causticum 30c (daily for 14 days).
Angustura Vera 30c (daily for 10 days)
Lathyrus 200c (3 times per week for 4 weeks)

I will not stop Arnica 200, Ruta Grav 30, Hypericum 1M (morning)
Ruta Grav 30, Hypericum 1M, Symphytum 200 (evening) yet.
I checked and there is not adverse interaction if I continue using them and add one of the new ones.

I think you can get some ideas from the above and try something along these lines for Woodie. Keep an eye on her reaction every day and adjust accordingly. I use clean spoons to crash the pillules and dilute them in a 0.5-1 ml clean water. Try not to touch them and administer drop by drop on her beak. It is better not to give any food for at least 15 mins before after treatment to allow them to be absorbed in her blood.

Please feel free to call me if you need any more advice. I will send you in PM my telephone number.

Good Luck!

Maria


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Maria,

Thanks again for all that info. I went out to a local health shop afterwards and have managed to get quite a lot of the remedies. (Couldn't believe the bill once she totalled it up).

I am trying something recommended from the paralysis section of the Bird Homeopathy Book. It seems to be her right leg/foot which needs a different remedy than if it were the left foot. She also has an issue using her wings so I will look into that.

I am also trying Hephar Sulph for another feral bird that has a long term infected wound.

Then the Woodie that has a stubborn wound on a joint and has now developed a couple of lumps by the joint, I am using Apis 6 for the swellings. I have no idea what's causing the lumps, so it may not be right.

Thank you for your number, I will call if I get stumped.

Best wishes to you, and to Marchy a continued recovery.

Janet


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## taralotti (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Janet,

They do cost, however, an 8grm tude (i pay 4.95 at Helios) lasts for years and knowing that they have no side effects, is most important to me.

Hepar Sulph is excellant for infected wounds, developing to a suppurative stage. Usually higher potencies like 200 will help dry up the process and aid rapid healing. Arnica would have been the choice at the beginning before the wound becomes infected. In fact, if Arnica is used asap, you hardly ever have any problems with infected wounds.
You might want to add some Hypericum 1M, if the pigeon is in pain. 

Apis Mellifica (which is bee venom!), is recommended for oedema or any swellings, especially on joints.

Please remember that the choice of potency is also important. Generally speaking emergencies and acute conditions respond better with higher potencies. Chronic conditions require lower potencies like 6c or 30c.

I am sure you will soon see good results.

Good Luck and well done for your efforts to help all those birds using kind but effective means.

I added Gelsemium 200 in March's morning remedy for his leg nerves as I received my Helios order this morning.

All the best 

Maria


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Maria,

Unfortunately the shop didn't stock any 200 strengths so I had to get mainly 6 or 30's.

The lady in the shop didn't know what 1M was when I asked for that.

I'll look for an update on March when you post it in his thread.
Thanks again,

Janet


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