# please help N.W. Liverpool UK



## slimbob (Apr 22, 2006)

Hello 

this is my first post any help is much appreciated.

first of all i must stress I am no expert and really dont have huge amounts of time to dedicate .

I found a young pigeon today next to a road very weak didnt try to get away when i caught it could not fly but not sure if any thing is broken only damage seems to be an eye which is either lost or badly damaged ( cats /other birds ??) 

it is not a chick just a young bird ( squab ??) very weak but not too skinny not in that bad shape really just feeling sorry for itself with a bad eye .

What to do ???

Two options take to local vet to be put down ?? This seems sad but its other fate was to be kiled by a car /cat other birds or worse still cruel kids unfortunately there a lot near where I live .

I hope I have done the right thing as I could not leave it for that fate . My grandpa helped many sick pigeons and he use to give them water with a straw and rolled up bits of whole wheat bread moistened with water to start with and then progressed to proper pigeon food when stronger .He even gav e really sick ones brandy !!! and he had no deaths just some very happy pigeons he was a very kind soul .

My prolem is I am a very busy guy ( business ) and dont have a lot of time to spare I can feed twice a day etc and at present have it in a big box he just seems to sleep and eat ( cant eat by himself i have to feed him) if I get him back to health can I just take him out and let him fly away ??/

What options are available to me as I said I am no expert . The put down route seems a shame but like i said beats the fate if i left him . He will get a lot of love for a few days and some great food and then be put down humanly by a local vet .

or if I do decide to bring him back all the way to full health and reintroduce him to the wild what can be doen by a busy person like me with limited time ( money is not an issue ) to give to the process or is this process a lot more simple than I think , hope so !!

Thank you to anyone who reads this message for help and a huge thanks for those who reply with help it is really appreciated !!!!! Is there a good book dedicated to helping those understand what to do if what has happened to me happens ?????? Any help or link please help . 

Cheers everyone ( great forum ) 

Rob ( the amateur pigeon rescuer )


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi Bob, please don't put the bird down. Is there any way that you can post some pictures? Someone will be along soon that can help and pictures would be a great help. Thanks for bringing the bird in, you definately did the right thing instead of leaving it to fate. Welcome to Pigeon Talk and good luck! 
Alice
P.S. Check out the thread _Basic Steps To Saving The Life Of A Pigeon Or Dove _here in the_ Sick or Injured Pigeon Discussions _.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Where are you Bob?*

Hi Bob,

I'm no expert either - but there are loads of people here who are - can you tell us where you are? It could be that there is someone local to you who could help or who could advise where you could take the pigeon to for help.

We'll will try and help you not make the decision to take the pigeon to the vet for euthanasia as I am sure someone may be nearby.

Tania x


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## slimbob (Apr 22, 2006)

Hi Alice and Tania 

That was quick !!!!!!!!!! , thanks so much for helping me . 


I am in liverpool ( waterloo)

It would be great if I could pass this little fella on as I said I dont have that much time if it is 24/7 process . 

I will try and get some pictures tommorow with a friends digital camera and will post . 

I am new to this forum and did not have time to read through all the joining rules . Is it possible to have your e-mail address ?? or is that against forum rules ?? it is just it will make things easier contacting you in case this post becomes old news so to speak and i cant get anymore feedback .

Alice I have done what you have said as best as I can (ie) big cardboard box to keep warm and quiet , warm blanket to rest on , water bowl , pigeon seed , bread and a few crumbled up biscuits .

feeding is not a problem and am trying to make sure most food is the proper pigeon food ( grains and seed for wood pigeon s ) also focusing on hydation with room temp water with a bit of rock salt added and a touch of sugar . Don think he is that bad as he is passing droppings ( not an expert on droppings but seems like normal pigeon droppings to me ) and is getting more alert , must be doing something right . Have not got a dropper so am using a bic pens plastic case to get water in his beak and he is drinking .

How much and how often should I hydrate ????

How often and how much ( weight ) should I feed ???

Do you recommend I leave food for first 24 hours and focus on water ??

Dont know how long he has gone without food or drink but like I said he is responding and is not too thin .>

Cheers Alice and Tania it is great there are helpful caring people like you out there making the job for someone like me so much easier thank you both so much 

Rob


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for rescuing this needy youngster.

Here is a thread on how to stabilize a bird, basic steps:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

Make sure the bird is warmed up on heating pad set on low, you can put a towel between the bird and heating pad. After 20 minutes then I would give the rehydration sollution.

Depending on how the bird does, you can possibly allow it to eat after an hour or so.

Do you have any Sovereign Silver colloidal silver (you can purchase at the healthfood store.) You can put a drop in the eye in case of infection, but wait a little while first.

Where are you in England or America..I can allert our UK members for helpful reources.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Bob,

I think you are in the UK?

If so I am trying to find out if there are any rehabbers that way ( Liverpool) - I have e-mailed a northern contact to see if she knows of any. I'm not too sure as down in London myself but hopefully we can find out for you.

In the meantime, as Treesa advises if you can follow the recommended threads to stabilise this young bird and thanks for picking him up.

Tania


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## slimbob (Apr 22, 2006)

hi

yes i am in the north west ( Liverpool ) u.k 

questions 

how much water ??
how much food ?? 

what signs that he doest want any more ?????????

he is in a box , warm and quiet but dont have a cage and dont want to keep him too long in such a dark lonely place unless that is what is needed .

But for how long ??Dont want to end up doing more harm than good (ie) over water and over feed !!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do I get a cheap cage from ?? any websites ?? 

If you could find a rehab person near to me it would be great , thanks .

should I take to a vet on Monday for a check up ????????

Thanks everyone really appreciate this .

Rob


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Having problems locating Liverpool help....*

Hi Rob,

Not having much luck with rehabbers in Liverpool I am afraid. I did a search and came out with Freshfields Animal Rescue but they aren't taking birds until 6 May 2006 ( and this is reviewable because of the recent bird flu scare- although that quarantine is now lifted). You could give them a call to see if they have changed that and are accepting birds again and if they take pigeons or not. Their number is 0151 931 1604 and their web address www.freshfieldsrescue.org.uk or they maybe able to suggest somewhere ( but check their pigeon policy first)

I have e-mailed a contact in Blackburn ( Nooti) to see if she can help but as stated she is in Blackburn - which is not near Liverpool, plus there is Midgely Bird rescue in Sheffield which is highly recommended. Again not Liverpool. 

Another member who is in Norwich could possibly collect the bird but not till June and I think you may have hoped to have the bird either freed or handed over to someone by then.

I am sorry that I can't find you any contacts there. It looks as though you may have to try and care for the bird yourself unless you take the bird to Sheffield. I know you have a lot of questions re feeding and cages etc. which I can't help with because I have never rehabbed a pigeon. I am lucky in that I have two Wildlife hospitals near me ( well within 15 miles either way) that could assist me.

Sorry - I can't be of more help at this time. 

Tania


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Bob, I'm in Blackburn if you can get the bird to me.
Have sent you a private message with my phone number if you want to ring and make any arrangements


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Rob,

One of my early rescues was a squab that needed hand feeding, I raised her on wholemeal bread dipped in natural Complan...not the ideal diet, I discovered afterwards (although it was recommended by the RSPCA) because it contains lactose , but 6 years later she is a glossy, healthy adult that is still with me.

I mixed the Complan according to the manufacturers instructions and fed her about one slice of bread with the crust removed twice a day.

However, I hope that you will be able to get the pigeon to Nooti!

Cynthia


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Feeding*

I've been in contact with Rob via e-mail re the pigeon he has found and he is going to try and look after it himself until he can find someone to pass the pigeon onto. There is a possibility it may go to Helen (Nooti) but Rob doesn't have a car so at the moment he is looking for somewhere a bit more local. I think Helen is probably about 60-80 miles away!! ( I'm estimating...)

However he is having problems trying to feed the pigeon. I have posted his comments below - do some members have some good advice that Rob can follow?

_One thing you could help me with is at first he would let me feed him by
gently opening his beak and sliding food in but now he is not liking it and
moves his head away . I have to literally force feed with out too much force 
that is as I am afraid he is not eating enough doesn't seem to be eating or 
drinking himself . Is it alright making him eat and drink or will this cause 
more stress ??? I am only trying this twice a day and not over feeding by 
any stretch of the imagination , he is probably if anything not getting 
enough even with making him eat /drink_ 

I'll advise Rob to keep an eye on this thread.

Thanks

Tania


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi Rob,
Nice work in rescuing this little chap

As for feeding, well I know exactly what you are going through. I`ve had quite a few little ones who can`t feed on their own and so the only real option is to feed them yourself.
Yes, they will struggle and twist their heads away but you have to persevere. It helps if you "buritto" the bird first (that`s a term I learnt here and means wrapping the bird securely but not too tightly in a cloth so it can`t flap it`s wings/escape etc). 
Then it`s just a case of being gentle but firm and making sure you push the food in their beaks enough so they can`t spit it out. I know it can be very difficult and at times frustrating, especially if you don`t have someone to help you but if I can do it anyone can! I find that sitting cross legged on the floor with the bird "burritoed" in the valley of my crossed legs the most comfortable and convenient position for feeding and watering them. 
Another thing I learnt here was to make up little seed balls for them. I do it with a little bread rounded into a little balls (approx 3-4mm diameter), and mold some little seeds into it. I then quickly dip the little balls in water and they slip down a treat...most times that is. 
As for giving a young bird water, well again a great trick I learnt here was to use a syringe, easily available at most chemists. Just allow drops of water from the syringe to fall onto the top of the beak and gravity will make them slip down the sides of it and then the bird will sort of suck them in. Of course, this works for giving them the great ACV solution too.
I hope this might help a little, I`m sure others will give you much more advice and better instructions...we have some real caring experts here as I`m sure you`ve noticed.
All the best to you and your little guest,
Ed.


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## slimbob (Apr 22, 2006)

*thanks Ed*

Thanks Ed 

That is a great help at least I know I am not being cruel making him eat and drink something so to speak . it is hard because you know he has to drink and eat but he doesnt want to , nightmare situation !

Thanks for making me feel better about this 

Cheers Ed

Rob


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Update on Rob's pigeon.*

Hi,

I've been in contact with Rob via PM and received the following from him today after he took his pidgie to the vet:-
_*
Hi Tania

I took him into my local vet to have him checked out and the good news is he
has no broken wings his eye is not that bad but the bad news is the vet said
that is the least of my worries as he is full of disease and very very
underweight basically on deaths door . The vet said he could not believe he
has made it this far !!!!!!! Must be doing something right . 

I phoned my local animal rescue and they will take him but cant till the 2nd
of May . So my goal is to now keep him warm , feed him up , water him up and
give him a lot of love .Then I will let the animal rescue do their thing .
They said even if he is unable to be released back into the wild they will
keep him as they have a lot of injured pigeons(i.e.) one leg or one eye even
one wing that cant be re-released but can be given the ability to live out
their remaining years being looked after and well fed , sounds
great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. 

So all is good Tania I have to just make sure he makes it through these next 
few days

Thanks for all your help and time at least there is a potential happy
ending here . I will e-mail you when I pass him over so you know he made it
and will live happy ever after !!!*_

So it sounds like Rob picked the pigeon up just in time. Think he's converted too as he later goes on to say:-

*p.s At least now if I stumble across another pigeon in need of help I know what to do and have some great people to get in touch with .*

I've asked Rob to confirm the Rescue Centre that he will be aking the pigeon to as it sounds as though they may be another organisation to add to the UK list which is extremeley sparse around the Liverpool area.

Thank you Rob for taking the time and the effort to care for, arrange a vet visit and arrange a safe haven for the pigeon to go to. 

Tania xx


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is great news. Thanks for sharing.
Seems like this little pij was found just in time, lucky baby.

Thank you for rescuing this little guy.

Reti


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Tania and Rob,

Glad to read that there is a chance for this little one. I think the Pigeon Angels knew where to place this little one, so that Rob could find and care for him.

I recently read that Phyll prays for all of the suffering little animals, so that they are found and cared for. It looks like another one of her prayers have been answered. I have made up my mind that I will include that prayer with mine every night for the rest of my life. Just look...it brought Rob into ours lives.

Rob, we meet the nicest people rescuing birds.

All is well Tania.  

Feather


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

lol thank you for saving the pigeon i cant help im in cali oposite side of the world and here i dont run into wild sqwaubs  although i wish i did it would be loads of fun

and isnt waterloo the place Napoleon the emperior fought a war and lost so he was exiled and then later on died because he grew ill ?

sorry im just remebering social studies i guess school does teach you somethings


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

I pm'd Rob today to find out how he was getting on with his pigeon, which was due to go to the Animal Rescue Centre on Tuesday - not to be but I think a better outcome. Below is Rob's reply to me:-

_*HI Tania 

He is fantastic, different bird now !!!! gained weight , really alert and starting to flap and exercise his wings !! The vet I took him to said he would only last a few day as he was so underweight but I just spent more time feeding even late at night and pulled him around .

Animal rescue now won't take him ???? something about bird flu legislation ??

So I got in touch with Helen ( Nooti )and am taking him up to her tomorrow as my dad has kindly offered to run me there and am made up Helen is having him as I phoned her and she seems great and so knowledgeable about birds !!! 

Anyway once he gets to Helen she will sort out his bad eye and he will be back out where he belongs with a flock . 

Really pleased how things have turned out Tania 

Thanks for all your support 

Kindest regards

Rob 

p.s pigeon talk is a great forum , very helpful members !!!!*_

Rob, thanks for taking time to hep this baby and to prove the vet wrong too!! 

Helen - thanks for helping Rob out too. I know you are quite busy at the moment with everything. 

This looks to be a good ending thanks to Rob and Helen. 

Tania xx


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Wow, Tania, yes, a wonderful ending....thanks for the update!

Linda


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Nice work Rob.
Now you`ll feel better about your next rescue
Respect,
Ed.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Pigeon (Woodie!) delivered to Nooti (Helen)*

Hi all,

Got this e-mail from Rob today.

*Met Helen at 11.00 am today and passed over pigeon . He was a baby wood pigeon !!! I thought he was a normal pigeon . Helen said his eye may have to come out but will def be alright might not be able to release in wild as they just pair up (i.e.) don't flock so the eye is more of an issue . Even so either Helen or Cynthia will take him/her?? to look after .

Feel really good , things have worked out well . Please could you post this on the forum to let everyone know how things ended up Tania , also Helen said she will post some photos of him ?her ??? when she can so everyone can see 

Yes shame about my local animal rescue but like you said Helen is a much better option it was well worth the journey she really is a wonderful lady !!!!! . It is great to know there are caring people out there when you hear so much bad news in papers and TV etc 

Thanks for everything Tania could not of done this without you and everyone else who got back to me from pigeon talk . 

I will be in touch If I find any more !!!!

All the best 

Rob *

So a great ending to this - sounds like the pigeon will be OK and even if is loses an eye, then Helen or Cynthia ( do you know about this yet Cynthia?) will be keeping him if he can't be released.

I think Rob has done so well - he got some great advice from Ed re the feeding so thank you Ed. If you read Rob's first post and I hope you don't mind me saying this Rob, although I and others could tell that Rob cared about the pigeon's welfare, he didn't really have the time to look after the pigeon - well you proved us and yourself wrong Rob, because your time and your effort really paid off by giving this youngster another shot at life when the vet was all ready to write him off. 

I know Rob will echo my sentiments in this, but many thanks to Helen for taking another patient - hey Helen - we know you have a wedding to organise too!! 

Tania xx


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIC TO ALL INVOLVED! 

Quite the coordination and I'm soooo glad things turned out so well!  

I definitely would like to see updates on the little one! 

With all the Bird Flu stuff going around, I'm afraid there will be more places not taking birds and especially pigeons! Unfortunately, people panic first and ask questions (maybe) second!!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Woodies are always welcome here! 

They seem to settle well, the ferals must have a calming effect.

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

As Cynthia says - woodies welcome... but they have to get used to being bullied by a tiny (in comparison) Collared Dove  

John


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Sorry to be so long getting back to this thread. I became ill only hours after meeting Bob and spent two days in bed with a nasty stomach bug which seems to be going around at work. I'm just coming round from it now.
To debrief - Rob's a lovely guy - the fact that he gave me a donation, a box of chocolates and a bottle of wine has everything to do with my opinion of him..... well a little anyway. No seriously, a really caring guy, and so was his father. Rob has obviously worked hard on the pidgie which turned out to be not a pidgie but a woodie. His eye has an non-viable lens behind the gunk and will not work again. Being a woodie I suggested that captive home would be a better option for him and the pidgie grapevine being what it is meant that Cynthia knew I was going to lumber her with this woodie long before I made up my mind myself! rotfl. 
Since the easiest way to pass this bird to her is when they come to the wedding in June, so it seems that our day will be attended by Miss, (or Master) Woodie as well as the other invited guests. Somehow I just knew I wouldn't get off so lightly. It's rare a day goes by without some contact with a bird and it seems even my wedding day will not be sacred! rotflmao.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Couldn't happen to a better/nicer person, Helen!!

Besides, who wants a "common" wedding anyway??? I guarantee that yours will be a SMASHING SUCCESS!

On this side of the pond, we will ALL be with you (in spirit) so your wedding will be a really GREAT affair!!   

And, after the ceremony...PARTY TIME!!


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Thank you.......
And I'm looking forward to the party time!
What better than 'glug glug' and meet my friends again!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

A woodie at your wedding? I'm betting that is a first! 

I'm sure Master or Miss Woodie won't mind the company and will enjoy the festivities .


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't let him (or her) perch on the cake, though...

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Don't let him (or her) perch on the cake, though...
> 
> Pidgey


How else to have a unique cake by using REAL pigeon tracks by a REAL pigeon??    

When he's finished, wipe his feet fast and say nooothinggg!


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Helen,

From Rob's e-mails he comes across as a really decent guy - chocs and wine eh? Can't be bad - and money - even better. That's a really lovely gesture and he did so well with the woodie too.

Of course you need a pidgie at your wedding - wouldn't be a proper wedding without a feathered friend. Dear little guy - he is very honoured methinks. 

Thank you for helping Rob out and sorry you have been ill. Hope you are feeling better now. 

I'm off to see a Pigeons.com pidgie tomorrow - Romeo - who was posted by member Cecile. Romeo is still at London Wildcare and will remain there until the end of his days due to a chronic leg problem but I'm looking forward to meeting him. He sounds a real character and I am meeting his finder Cecile - wow this website gives you friends - its great. 

Tania x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Wedgewood*

Rob's pigeon has joined us in the aviary now, he has been christened Wedgewood and has identified the other woodpigeons and perches with them.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

Oh, he is a darling...and what a great name. I'm sure he will spend many happy years with your happy group. 

Thank you for letting us know.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, Wedgewood is the perfect name....his feathers appear almost blue.

Good luck with him...he sure is a beauty,

Linda


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Cynthia - Wedgewood is certainly a lovely boy - that's his good side I guess?

And you collected him at Helen's ( Nooti) wedding? - thank you so much for doing this - I am going to e-mail Rob and tell him to have a peek at the thread so that he can see how "his" woodie is doing.

We can only thank Rob and his father driving the 80-90 miles to Blackburn to deliver Wedgewood to Helen and for the time before when he was trying to raise the little fella.

Well done to everyone in the rescue.  

Tania x


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*fresh-bathed*

Wedgewood explored the bath at the weekend, too. He was a rather damp little woodie, as you see, but he dried out very quickly and looked all the fresher for it 

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> that's his good side I guess?


Yes, I don't like to focus on his bad side. Hid bad eye is prone to infection and needs to be bathed regularly. He has just been on a long course of antibiotics.

If he was a feral I would take him to the avian vet and discuss surgical "reconstruction" which is what Hawkeye underwent, but I think that a woodie who can be killed by an injection would be at increased risk from surgery and there is a high risk for any pigeon.

I think this a case that could do with homeopathic treatment so I will try that if there is any further infection.

I keep Bob updated with photos and have promised him a video so that he can see Wedgewood grow up.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> Yes, I don't like to focus on his bad side. Hid bad eye is prone to infection and needs to be bathed regularly. He has just been on a long course of antibiotics.
> 
> I think this a case that could do with homeopathic treatment so I will try that if there is any further infection.
> 
> Cynthia


Hi Cynthia,

You might try a drop of the Sovereing Silver (colloidal silver) in the eye each day for now. I can't count how many eye infections and other issues have been resolved with that stuff.

He is such a doll baby!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Treesa,

The lady that supplies me  with sick and injured white doves has got something that makes colloidal silver,,,some sort of generator, if that makes sense? She has promised to provide a little bottle so I will try that.

Cynthia


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