# Pebbles the PMV pigeon



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Pebbles is a pigeon that I spotted at the Lock where I feed my regular gang, who was exhibiting signs of PMV. I spotted her Monday and was unable to catch her. Tuesday I had better luck and caught her ( after 10 minutes though of chasing her around and she taking to the skies once ). Touchwood all the other pidgies look unaffected

She came to work with me and stayed in a pet carrier that I keep at work for emergencies -everyone was OK about her although I did get the odd "bird flu" remark to which I replied that bird flu was respitary and PMV is neurological!!

Anyway I will be taking Pebbles to London Wildcare on Saturday as they can give her better care than me - she is left on her own all day whilst I am at work and yesterday I had a bit of a panic because she hadn't pooped ( i.e. not eaten) yet the seed and nuts were all over the place!!

A panicky e-mail sent to Cynthia for advice helped - thanks Cynthia  - and we now have poops today - not too many so I have force-fed her again tonight with a mixture of brown bread, seeds, water and a pinch of sugar rolled into tiny balls as suggested by Karen at LW.

All I can say about Pebbles is that she is the most sweetest pigeon I have ever looked after - yes she has PMV and tilts her head although not as bad as some I have seen - she is just so calm - she doesn't flap around when you pick her up - just accepts her fate and does not squiggle even when being force-fed - I can't say her beak is co-operative in that matter but she doesn't try to get away.

Anyway I can keep you updated on her as she will be residing at the Wildlife Hospital until she hopefully recovers. I will also try and take a photo ( with my rubbish camera though). Her irridescent plumage is just gorgeous.

Tania xxx

PS - My vet lent me a wire carrier to put her in as I only have an enclosed cat carrier and that would have meant being in the dark all day - not good as she won't feed - I was going to buy one but they said I could borrow one and then Pebbles had to come out of the cardboard carrier and be examined by the vet who diagnosed PMV - we know.......


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just mentioned you in Nab's post about the owls, Tania...are your ears "burning?"

So glad you were able to catch Pebbles!!

Of course, sending LOVE, HUGS, SCRITCHES and HEALING THOUGHTS for her full recovery!!

Will look forward to positive updates!!


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Sounds like between you and London Wildcare, she's getting royal pigeon treatment 

Yes, PMV doesn't stop them being squirmy, that's true. My Noelle was very quiet at first, but once she'd been with me for a week or two she certainly disliked being picked up and made typical hen shouts of displeasure. In fact, it was really only then, when she would back away and try to evade 'capture', that she showed much in the way of the neurological symptoms .. then, and her unnerving (but typical PMV) habit of suddenly zonking out and going to sleep at un-pigeonlike times.

Strange thing was, though, whenever I weighed her as an aid to checking recovery from her initial undernourishment, she would stand absolutely still on the digital scale so I could get an exact reading without the hassle of having to enclose a struggling pigeon.

Lots of good wishes for Pebbles!

John


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Glad to hear Pebbles is under your care now, can't wait for the update on her progress at Wildcare.

Thank you for helping Pebbles.


----------



## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Tania,

Nice job with Pebbles, seems like your work is never done LOL.

Please keep us updated,

Ron


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Great rescue Tania.  
Pebbles should have no worries as she is in the best of care.  

Please update as time permits.

Cindy


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Pebbles is at the hospital now in the Isolation ward - she is in there with two other pigeons with PMV ( one being the squeaker who has severe PMV though is improving - still has to be gavaged) and a blackbird who is not coping very well with hospital care!! 

Poor thing - she looks really bewildered and I miss looking down at her little face whilst I would be on the PC but.......she wil get proper monitoring and will be weighed 3 times a week to check she is not losing weight with the condition. I actually witnessed her drinking water and managing to eat 6 out of 7 peanuts last night so I think she will be one that copes OK. 

I do hope that she recovers as I know some don't as I would like to take her back to Teddington where I found her but I think Ted tends to release "recovered" PMV pigeons outside the back door at the hospital for the simple fact that if it flares up again, she can been seen and if necessary caught and assessed again.

They have two PMV pigeons in the outside avaiary which can feed themeselves but are not let out as he has 6 maurading cats!!  Well one maurading cat actually - Lucy... but she is Ted's little Princess apparently. 

I feel sad that she isn't here and I have "dumped" her somewhere else but by the same token I felt guilty from taking her from Tedington where she was coping ( her poops on the first day I had her showed that) but I know in time, she would have perhaps got worse and that this is the best thing - its such a shame we can't explain these things to them.

Tania xx


----------



## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

*PMV Pigeon*

Is PMV the same as vertigo described in Levy's book The Pigeon?


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You did the right thing Tania. If you haven't cought the bird, he would have eventually be cought by a predator.
He is good hands now.
Great rescue.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

kittypaws said:


> I feel sad that she isn't here and I have "dumped" her somewhere else but by the same token I felt guilty from taking her from Tedington where she was coping ( her poops on the first day I had her showed that) but I know in time, she would have perhaps got worse and that this is the best thing - its such a shame we can't explain these things to them.
> Tania xx


Tania,

Thank you for the update on Pebbles.

Please don't feel sad or guilty about Pebbles as you did the right thing, enabling her safety and recovery and a future!

Another thing is, please DO explain to your bird what is going on. Don't underestimate pigeons, they may just be able to understand, we just don't know. Give them the opportunity to know, talk to them. I, for one, always let my birds know when there is going to be a change in their life, like we are going away a few days and some one who they know will be there to feed and water them. You may thing I'm nuts, but after watching the Pet Psychic, anything is possible.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Tania,
> 
> Thank you for the update on Pebbles.
> 
> ...



LOL...me too, Treesa. I don't leave them in someone else's care often. When I leave to run about, I have the habit of saying, "I'll be back!" Sometimes, I will add "behave yourselves" (usually to the cats!)...When I return, I'll say, "Hi, guys, I'm baaack!"

And that's not counting when I'm home during the day and evening! I'm usually talking to someone - collectively or individually...Every so often, I'll get an answer - usually involving FOOD!  

I also believe: nothing is impossible, only unknown...


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Of course I explained everything to Pebbles!! Why on else on the train would I be talking to a cardboard carrier!! 

I shall see her Staurday and look at her notes and just see how she is coming along! 

Tania xx


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

kittypaws said:


> Of course I explained everything to Pebbles!! Why on else on the train would I be talking to a cardboard carrier!!
> 
> I shall see her Staurday and look at her notes and just see how she is coming along!
> 
> Tania xx



LOL, Tania! I understand completely!

I never think anything unusual when I see someone talking to a cardboard box! I KNOW there is something ALIVE in that box!   

Hugs as always


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

kittypaws said:


> Of course I explained everything to Pebbles!! Why on else on the train would I be talking to a cardboard carrier!!
> Tania xx


Well then, she knows what is going on, and did your job. Thank you for being there for Pebbles. I hope they talk to her at Wildcare too.


----------



## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Kittypaws, so glad that you managed to rescue your feathered friend with PMV. 

I find large collapsible metal dog crates very useful for sick piggies. I place a brick for them to perch and there is enough room for them to stretch and flap their wings, which they like to do even when they are sick and cant fly. I know they are expensive but if you go to car boot sale you can pick up a crate worth £40 for as little as £5. Ive had some amazing bargains , thought I
d mention this as I expect you will need another carrier at a later date.!!!!! A

I'd just like to say I enjoy hearing your updates from the wildcare hospital. Canaryjayne UK.


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Update

Went into London Wildcare yesterday and saw Pebbles - she is fine. I was actually placed in the Small Mammals and Isolation ward to do this week where Pebbles is, so I got to clean her out, weigh her and of course give her a cuddle. She has dropped 4g but she is 324g anyway so a good weight. Her notes say that she is fine, she is eating on her own and not being forcefed and can I just say, that out of the 5 birds in there with PMV, she is the calmest of the bunch. She is just a dream to handle whilst the others - OMG, you need 2 pairs of hands!!!! She also appears to have the best case of PMV if you can call it that .i.e. her symptoms are not as severe as the others. 

I done an update on my other thread about my stories from the hospital!! 
Tania xx


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tania,

Thanks for the update! I am so glad that you found Pebbles in the first place and that she is doing well!

Cynthia


----------



## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

*Pmv*

I have a pair of pigeons that recovered from PMV. The cock bird had an extreme case and the hen a slight case. In fact I thought that the cock bird was dead numerous times. Somehow I got them back to normal. The cock was down with it in January. I brought him in the house and put him in a pet taxi in the basement. I then put him in a 6 inch by 8 inch plastic tub inside the pet taxi and put some rags on the bottom so that when he went into his corkscrew mode he was eventually able to stand and eat. I put the hen in a seperate cage. When he was able to stand I put them together. The sub zero weather here prevented me from puting them back ouside in their coop. Well she laid eggs so I put a nesting bowl in the cage and some rags to put the eggs on. They both hatched but one died. The other is doing fine. My question is this "Can these birds now be put with other birds or should they always be kept seperate including their young?" I understand that they always carry this disease and it could infect other birds at any time.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

They stop being contagious after 2-3 months, I think, or even less.
I have several PMV rescues with my other birds and none ever showed any symptoms of the disease. I kept them in isolation for three months.
Since one of your birds had PMV in January, he might still be contagious, maybe that's why the one baby died.
Hope the other one wil be fine.

Reti


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Pebbles continues to be a "model" patient at London Wildcare.

Her notes say that she is progressing well and that her PMV is not too bad. 

We had a new volunteer start today - Gavin ( a really lovely young man who apparently is always picking up pigeons when out driving his van) and Pebbles was nominated as the calmest pigeon in the ward to be Gavin's first victim ( clean and weigh)!!

Of course she behaved impecabbly - you can hold her with one hand and she doesn't struggle - and she is so pretty...... ( but I am biased of course!) 

Tania xx


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

That's just GREAT, Tania!

Now that you are experienced, you can give Gavin all sorts of tips! 

Sure glad to hear the men are getting into the act!

BTW, do you ever get to see Ted much?

LOVE AND HUGS TO YOU ALL!!

   :


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> Sure glad to hear the men are getting into the act!
> 
> BTW, do you ever get to see Ted much?


Hi Shi,

Yes we have quite a few men doing the work - On Saturday- we have two 16 year old boys who are handy for cutting up chicks! and we have Chris who is in his 30's and expert at feeding baby creatures and now Gavin - Gavin seemed very keen and I was "showing off" a bit with my knowledge of pigeons and their ailments ( all courtesy of Pigeon-Life!!) and then there is CYNICAL James who is on the staff there - he says that Racing Pigeons are lazy...... don't worry he gets a  "look" from me!!

I get to see Ted every Saturday - he does disappear though if there is a game of rugby on - he used to play Rugby apparently and along with beer, food ( and wildlife) it is his passion!! Luckily for us England are playing Rugby tomorrow so Ted was with us today but he was later seen in the resident fox pen with a pneumatic drill - don't worry he hadn't flipped and turned into some sort of driller killer  - the 11 resident foxes have been moved into a different pen whilst Ted, James and the "boys" make some adjustments to the fox enclosure, which they started off with destroying the concrete floor ( not good for foxes delicate paw pads) - they are going to get something softer!! 

Tania x


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Tania, If I lived ANYWHERE near the Center, I, too, would be volunteering! Ted is my kind of guy AND I would love to meet you!

Well, I'll just have to content with PT!!

PLEASE SAY *HI* TO TED! He has ONE BIG FAN in the U.S.!!

HUGS


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

mr squeaks said:


> PLEASE HI TO TED! He has ONE BIG FAN in the U.S.!!
> 
> HUGS


Shi,

I will send your regards.... 

Tania x


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I understand that they always carry this disease and it could infect other birds at any time.


The pigeons stop shedding the virus after 6 weeks, but the virus can last longer than that in feathers, water, and fecal dust. That is the 3 to 4 months timespan that Reti mentioned. As far as I remember the young that have not been infected will have immunity for something like 3 months. It is only if they are infected tghat they too will shed the virus for up to 6 weeks.

Do you have a bath in the coop? If you have the cock will be in danger of drowning, that happened to my with my first PMV rescue. 


Cynthia


----------



## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

umm, WHERE ARE PHOTOS OF PEBBLES?!


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Aias said:


> umm, WHERE ARE PHOTOS OF PEBBLES?!


You know what Aias - I have a really crap digital camera but I will take it in next week and because she is such a model patient I am sure she will sit still for a piccy - I will try........ 

Tania x


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Pebbles life is in danger!! 

I got an e-mail today from Ted, the guy who runs London Wildcare who had previously advised me that if I bought him a certain type of cake she would get specialist care. Well I haven't yet and I got this reply today from him.... 

_*Ps I haven’t forgotten the fondant fancy thing either…just so we’re clear on that point…wouldn’t want anything unpleasant to happen to poor Pebbles, would we?*_

I had better get those cakes for him Saturday!! 

Tania xx


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What a monster!!!!! 

Cynthia


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh no You better get started on the cake NOW!!!!

Reti


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Eeeek! I hope you taught Pebbles about giving a good wing slap to the evildoers 

John


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Poor Pebbles - she doesn't do wing slaps!!

Ted does make me laugh - he is just such a nice person with a very "wicked" sense of humour - he dare touch my Pebbles. 

When she was weighed last Saturday she had dropped 5 grams so as I was leaving, I said about it and Ted said " Oh my god - get that pigeon on 5 force-feeds a day - Pebbles has dropped 5 grams!! " 

We do have a laugh there and of course it is taken serious if it is dramatic weight loss but at 323 grams - Pebbles is a respectable weight!!

Still going to get those "Fondant Fancies" though - just in case....... 

tania x


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

what is a fondant fancy?? i mean, what type of cake/pastry??
oh, and Tania, is that your kitty in your avatar?? mine looks a bit like it!!


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> what is a fondant fancy?? i mean, what type of cake/pastry??
> oh, and Tania, is that your kitty in your avatar?? mine looks a bit like it!!


A fondant fancy is like a little square sponge cake - its has a little dollop of cream on the top and then is covered completely in icing - usually pink or yellow. Ted is not a small man so I think he has eaten many of these over the years!! 

Yes - my avator is Freddie my cat - a stray who adoped me and is a lovely, lovely boy!! 

Tania x


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Pebbles is still alive despite that horrible man's threats!! 

I paid the first instalment of French Fancies ( not Fondant Fancies) to my blackmailer with a "sticky" on the top saying " Pebbles 'BLOOD' Money"

It made Ted laugh! 

On a serious note she continues to improve - still hospitalised, but a little more feisty and the head tilting very slight so I think she is feeling a lot better. Previously when she was picked up and you put her back in the cabin or cage, she would have to lean against the side of the cabin, as if trying to regain her balance. She doesn't do this now so I think, just a little longer to make sure it has all gone and then she can probably be released. 

She'll be put into the large cage in the bird ward to flex her wings and "socialise" with other pigeons and then into the big outside aviary for about a week to check that she has definitely shaken off the virus.

Tania x


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Shock, horror  - Pebbles' cabin was empty yesterday - wondering where she had gone or whether Ted, the evildoer had done something nasty to her I was relieved to see that she had just been moved to another cabin - she is still showing slight signs of PMV so can't go into the aviary yet.

She is so sweet she trembles when you talk to her - I think that means she is either frightened or excited - I'm hoping its the latter!! 


Ted in the meantime got paid another instalment of "protection money" - this time a bottle of red wine because he was also celebrating his 40th Birthday!! 


Tania x


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Pebbles is such a cute pigeon. I love it when they tremble from excitement. Have you heard her purr? A couple of mine do that while they tremble when they get excited.

After all this blood money, this man better take extra care of Pebbles 

Reti


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I remember when you posted a picture of Ted a long time ago, Tania. Yes, he does look like he can enjoy himself. But, PLEASE WISH HIM HAPPY BIRTHDAY from his NO. 1 U.S. FAN! Just adore that man. He is such a riot! As you know, humor is MOST important in my life!  

He reminds me of a movie star but, for the life of me, I can't remember who. A famous one, but....well...the name is on the tip of my tongue... 

Thank you for going to all that trouble to bring him his -ah - pound of payment! Tell him, "for shame!" and to a sweet little pijie like Pebbles! Not to mention a wonderful person, such as yourself!

LOVE and HUGS... 

*NOTE:* I have a special place in my heart for cats and the name, Freddie, in particular. Not only was Fred the name of my dad and brother, but a wonderful Polydactyl Orange Tabby named Freddie. There wasn't a place on his body that he didn't like being touched! He was a Vet's dream to handle.


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Hi Shi,

Ted knows he has a number one fan in the US!! 

Don't know what filmstar he looks like to me - he's just Ted and yes he does enjoy the spoils of life - food and beer..... but then again he's a man what can you expect? 

Reti - I love the way she trembles - not heard any purring - grunting though but not from Pebbles - she is a quiet girl.... 

Tania x


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Pebbles update*

Pebbles is still in isolation with her 3 other PMV friends - they have been there ages!! 

I thought PMV recovery was about 6 weeks, but one of the staff was saying it can take up to 14 weeks. There is so long they have to go into isolation to shed the virus ( I think this is about 6 - 8 weeks) and then they can go into an inside aviary to see how they are getting on.

Silly girl is still tilting her head so she stays for the time being.

There is one PMV pigeon in the outside aviary that really flips his head when you go in there - "He's stressed" Elaine says and I guess she is right. 
I think a couple more weeks then Pebbles can go into the aviary and boy oh boy will she wasnt to spread those wings....... 

Tania xx


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Glad to here they are still taking good care of her 

We reckon 6 weeks to get past the virus shedding but those nervous symptoms can indeed take longer (or never completely go of course).

Noele, from my balcony, looks very well and is in the main aviary now, whereas her former aviary mates are mostly looking no better in terms of neurological symptoms than when they arrived, quite a while after they were rescued and we took them in.

John


----------



## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

*Pebbles the PMV Pigeon*

I had a cock bird that recovered in about 6 weeks this January from PMV. It has since been put back with its mate, raised 1 baby, is feeding another and the hen is on 2 eggs again. I had given this bird up for dead a dozen times, but it recovered in my basement on its own without any medications. I call this bird my miracle bird. In time your birds should all recover too.


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Pebbles Update*

Dear Pebbles is now in the outside aviary with "Pecky" - Pecky is the juvenile bird that has been at London Wildcare since a squab and had severe PMV in that he could not even stand up but lay on his back - he can now stand up OK and he and Pebbles can feed themselves so that have been put in the aviary for some excercise and hopefully signs of improvement.

Unfortunately Pebbles spins around madly when you go into the aviary to change the seed so is slow in improving with her recovery of her PMV. 

On a funnier note, it really rained yesterday and there were quite few fox cubs outside in a pen that had to be brought in as it was too wet and they had no shelter ( they just go out to be in the outside and come in at night). So staff and volunteers got dreadfully wet and so were the cubs, which were toweled dry and then given their tea!!

Whilst this was happening, Jackie one of the staff appeared with a rather bedraggled Pebbles and Pecky ( Jackie was pretty bedraggled herself!!)  - because of their PMV they weren't able to fly up into the sheltered parts of the aviary - these two reprobates were also toweled dry and then stuck in heat cage for half an hour!!!

Tania xx


----------



## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Pebbles is back outside with Pecky - she is now flying and Ted and the staff are happy with that so its still a bit of a waiting game with her as to whether she will recover fully from the PMV.  However people seemed a bit more optomistic about her so she may be able to go free one day.

Little Pecky is a happy little pigeon who copes just fine and hopefully when sufficiently recovered will be released into the flock at the the Wildlife Centre.

Tania xx


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Sounds good for Pebbles. She'll need plenty of time, I think, even if she is flying. The problem is always if the neurological signs return from time to time. Hopefully they won't - they can and do make a full recovery with the only signs being probably too tiny for anyone who doesn't know their background to spot, and certainly not anything which prevents them living a normal pigeon life.

John.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

SO GLAD TO HEAR THE POSITIVE UPDATES, TANIA!!   

LOVING HUGS AND SCRITCHES TO ALL!!   

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


----------

