# Need help from the elders! Baby issues



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

OK, don't know if I'm worrying too much, or I'm dealing with an issue:

Back story is: Harmony (Capuchine) and Cadence (Oriental Frill) mated and had eggs. Cadence was a bit calcium deficient when I got her, and there was a 4 day window between the first and second eggs being laid. She had also been treated for coccidisis, and I'm not sure if we got it all...Cadence is very difficult when getting liquid meds!
Fast forward to last week. The first baby (Petra) hatched either the 8th or 9th (egg shell was on the floor on Monday afternoon), and the second (Katra) hatched on Thursday the 12th (found the shell when cleaning...)
As of Sunday, Petra was 100 grams, and Katra was 50 grams. This morning, Petra was 140 grams, and Katra is only 55(ish) grams.
I'm worried about 3 things:
1. Did they both get coccidisis from mommy?
2. Both babies have hardish belly buttons, and I've read that might be a sign of canker, but so far I see nothing in the beak.
3. Should I intervene with Katra, and start feeding her baby formula (Kaytee), or am I just being paranoid because of the size difference?

Both mommy and daddy are spending more time out of the nest, giving me a better opportunity to monitor the sqabs. BTW, I'm feeding the parents quite well, to the point where they're getting picky..

Oh, and I've cleaned the nest since this photo so I can monitor poops!


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Well they look like healthy squabs to me except the size (and unusual age difference) between the two. The littler one looks like it has a nice full crop right now although there may be a time the bigger one starts getting all the food and they neglect feeding the smaller. You can then try taking the bigger one out so that they feed the smaller one to its full first and/or supplemental hand feed it. The smaller one has more down ("hair")?? Looks like they will be two different colors!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It could be canker, coccidia, both or other. It's impossible to eradicate either. The thing we do with medications is knock the numbers down to a manageable level. Other illness or stress can make them, the parasites that cause canker and coccidia, over grown and cause an infection.
Personally, I would supplement the feeding... careful only to feed when the crop is empty. I would also have fecal and throat swab to figure out what the problem is and then treat appropriately.


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

The parents are a Capuchine and an Oriental Frill, so I think the younger one is more "frill".... I'm bringing in a fecal for both, and I'll get a throat swab..


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Can't wait to see how they turn out. A lot of the characteristics of those two breeds (frill, capuchine hood, frill stencil) etc. are recessive so will be "hidden" in the two babies. They will be beautiful though I am sure but probably will not look like either of the parents! .


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Sevenof14 said:


> OK, don't know if I'm worrying too much, or I'm dealing with an issue:
> 
> Back story is: Harmony (Capuchine) and Cadence (Oriental Frill) mated and had eggs. Cadence was a bit calcium deficient when I got her, and there was a 4 day window between the first and second eggs being laid. She had also been treated for coccidisis, and I'm not sure if we got it all...Cadence is very difficult when getting liquid meds!
> Fast forward to last week. The first baby (Petra) hatched either the 8th or 9th (egg shell was on the floor on Monday afternoon), and the second (Katra) hatched on Thursday the 12th (found the shell when cleaning...)
> ...



I think you probably already know what happend..lol.. because you mention the time between the laying of eggs. growth of a fertile egg does not happen untill it gets heat in incubation, the first egg had a head start and hatched first, the second was a bit too far behind, because squabs are one of the fastest growing living things on the planet the big one can take over and hog more feedings from just mere size. I would see when they feed and take out biggy so small can get fed more.. take him (biggie) out for about 20 mins and return him.. do this a few times a day if you can..then make sure small has a good crop and check biggy too, if there is food in both then small will catch up to biggie soon or when weaning time comes, hopefully. I would plan on just in case hand feeding small at the end when biggy is already wean..he may need just a week of hand feeding before he starts to eat on his own like his biggie sibling. the cock bird may quit feeding when done with biggie and wants him weaned. 


just to add --this problem is common in hens who sit their first egg, usually the hen and cock will hover and stay close to the first egg, then when the second is layed start the incubation process in which both eggs even though layed on different days grow at the same rate and hatch near the same time.


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

Thank you, Spirit (and everyone)!
Just spent the morning at the Wild Bird Fund feeding baby pigeons, and picked their brains as well. Katra seems to be a little slow in development, but mostly on track at about 70 grams and 7 days old. Petra, on the other hand, seems to be a complete freak, and I'm starting to think there's some recessive gene for something HUGE in her! Either that, or I'm off by at least 2-3 days on her hatching....
I'm pulling Petra out of the nest when the parents are getting ready to feed, to ensure that Katra gets at least some crop milk, and supplementing with Kaytee baby food... and even some high-end puppy chow (didn't realize how hard it it to find chow that actually HAS grain in it..!). Petra seems to enjoy surfing the web with me while her little sister is being fed!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes pigeon milk fuels an explosive growth rate for sure. they can double their size in 48 hours. but it is given most in the first week, they will be regurgitating seeds and grains here soon.


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

Just an update: Katra (the small one) appears to have the beginnings of canker. I'm running up to the Wild Bird Fund to get meds, and she'll be getting hand feedings from "grandpa" for the time being. She's been 70 grams for the last 3 days, and appears to gulp after parents feed her. Noticed a small yellow lump behind her tongue, and her navel is a bit hard...


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> yes pigeon milk fuels an explosive growth rate for sure. they can double their size in 48 hours. but it is given most in the first week, they will be regurgitating seeds and grains here soon.


That might be the issue. If the parents are starting to regurgitate seeds, Katra isn't getting enough milk...


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

treating for the canker because she is behind is proabably wise.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

also an idea while your treating is to perhaps take biggie out longer and suppliment him and let smallie get more feedings and milk if they have any left. . just an idea.


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

Thank you Spirit! I'm doing both, as well as fecal tests and making real columbiform formula..


----------



## Sevenof14 (Dec 4, 2010)

Just wanted to give everyone an update after a long absence... Petra and katra are doing perfectly.. Petra wound up being a girl, and the baby, Katra, is a boy!
here's a recent shot of the family, with harmony and Cadence in the back, Katra on the left and Petra on the right...


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow what a beautiful group!!! Very nice! Glad you posted an updated photo!


----------

