# Strange Behavior Question



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

As most of you know I have a 3 month old rescued one eyed feral named "Jack"

From the moment Jack learned to fly his favorite perching spot was the top of the fridge.

All of sudden last night he started not wanting to go on the fridge. He flies by it but won't land. He won't go on any of his other high perching spots either. He loved the chandlier in the dining room and just about any curtain rod he could find.

When I let him out of his cage thismorning same thing. He wants to only be on the kitchen counter or the tables. In the living room he will only land on the arms of the couch. The highest spot I have been able to get him to is my shoulder.

He hasn't banged into anything lately on his blind side and for the most part he has the entire house memorized. He really go around quite well, so I don't think he was traumatized in any way.

Has anyone had this problem?? Any ideas??

Thanks & regards,
Louise


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Is there something there that might have scared him at night, and what about the temperature?


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

With the fridge, it just might be he has decided he doesn't like the vibration of the motor.


----------



## bweaz (Aug 1, 2008)

It's probably nothing. Maybe something spooked him or he got bored with those spots. Watch a few days, maybe he'll start flying there again. My only suggestion, other than that, is watch his droppings. Any change and there may be a problem. Has he been molting a lot lately? Maybe he's putting so much energy into molting that he figures the counter is as good as anywhere else. 

Maybe he just wanted you to wonder! I think they get a kick out of confusing us!!


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi,

Nothing has changed with the fridge. But, it's not just the fridge. It's like he has developed a fear of all heights. I tried putting him on the chandlier, he always loved it up there. He stood there for about 10 seconds looking very apprehensive and flew back to the kitchen counter. I tried putting him by hand back on the fridge and he made is really clear he wanted no part of it.

Otherwise Jack seems fine, is eating, drinking, grooming, and pooping normal. He's his happpy little self. I sure hope he gets over this soon.

Wouldn't it just beat all if I have a bird that is able to fly, but is afraid of heights.

Louise


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Does he fly up to any of these spots and just not land, or does he not reach any great height at all? 

Almost all the flying pigeons I've had inside temporarily have instinctively picked the highest perch they can find - the ones who didn't (aside from wing injury) tended to be those younger pigeons who needed their strength building up with added calcium and/or other vitamins, having been somewhat on the light side initially. 

John


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Is there a possibility he is losing the sight in the other eye???


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

He has been flying up and landing on all the high spots on his own for almost 6 weeks now. He always chose the highest perch he could find just like you suggest. He still flys up there but circles and then will not land. He will land only on the kitchen counter or the lower places like tables, couch, or backs of chairs. When I put him by hand up on the fridge, he really looked scared. He immediately flew down. 

This behavior just started late last night, right before I put him in his cage for the night.
I thought after a night in the cage he would have been over it as his ritual has always been in the morning first thing out of the cage he always flew immediately up on the fridge. This morning he flew to the kitchen up above the fridge, wouldn't land and went to the kitchen counter. This has been going on all day now.

I just can't figure it out.

Louise


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Nona,

I had not considered that at all. I'm going right now to do some test with him on the good eye. I'll be back in a few minutes.


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*High fliers*

Hello Louise,

Pigeon doesn't want to land on high spots.

*Heat* rises, and it may be too warm for him up there. Climb a ladder so your head almost touches the ceiling {winter or summer}, and you will find it gets too warm to tolerate, if the rest of the room is tolerable to you. (This is somewhat subjective, but I think applies in general. The heat should be most noticeable above the upper level of an open window (or door, or other opening) which allows the heat to move out and upwards into a cooler area.

Flying from floor level to a higher spot inside a somewhat limited area requires ascending at a steeper pitch or higher angle, and this requires more energy than a gradual ascent. "Helicoptering" or an almost vertical ascent requires a lot of energy.

From watching my pigeons *Pidgiepoo* and *Wieteke*, I saw that they would noisily "pant" and make clicking sounds for a short while after a steep ascent in hot weather. They had to cool off. Flying on the level permits a greater flow of air through the lungs, air sacs and hollow bones, for cooling off. Flying slowly while ascending steeply permits less airflow, therefore slower heat dissipation.

To demonstrate my point, run on a level and then run up some stairs. Assuming you have the strength and stamina to do both, you can determine that you heat up faster going uphill and have more body heat to get rid of through conduction, convection, or radiation. 

Birds feel *safer* higher up, and out of reach. He may not feel the need to be so high up. Wieteke and Pidgiepoo often got underfoot, a dangerous situation for a smaller creature with fragile bones (compared to me). However, a servant (me) is supposed to be attentive at all times, and aware of the needs of the "boss."

There may be some chemical fume or gas in the air on an intermittent basis, which wasn't present earlier. Refrigerator might be leaking coolant. Some lighter gas may be rising higher in the room. There may be a higher dust load, which particles may not please him. Pigeons in their natural environment spend most of their time outdoors where there is potentially if not actually a greater air flow and dispersion rate of any airborne particles.

Ionized air? From ironing, or heating elements on stove or fridge compressor?

Also, maybe your fridge went through a defrost cycle and made strange noises and strange vibrations, which it had not done before or which he did not notice.

Maybe he can see a cat through a window when he is higher up, or maybe see raptors, or whatever. Wieteke sometimes liked to hide when he knew a raptor was outside. Once or twice he was afraid of something outdoors, and dashed in and hid on the floor under the buffet. He knew a raptor might just follow him in and search for him. I knew when he was afraid of a raptor, and when everything was normal.

Maybe he heard a mouse behind the fridge, or wood ants. They can hear stuff we can't. Maybe he is trying to tell you something. 

In reference to JohnD's question concerning his eyesight, does your pidge fly clockwise or counter-clockwise (when looking downwards, for instance), or consistently choose one direction only to fly, when he could go in either direction. We have dominant hand and foot preferences, and develop habits accordingly (such as, most people are taught to mount a horse from the left), so we may not notice subtle changes. 

Concerning vision problems, or coordination problems: if he has bumped into something, he may prefer a broader, safer landing surface as opposed to one requiring more agility or coordination. I have noticed this among PMV (ParaMyxoVirus) pigeons.

Larry


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

It seems like he sees fine out of the good eye. He follows my finger around in a full circle. Also I walked out of the kitchen leaving him on the counter and he followed me down the hall, so I'm pretty sure his sight is OK in the only eye he has.

I am a little concerned about his flying. I'ts hard to explain, but it just doesn't seem quite as strong. I let him loose in mid air and although he still flew it seems to be for much shorter distances than before. He seems like he has to land as he would't be able to make it any further.

Is this making any sense???

I'm starting to really worry now. Could it be some type of vitamin deficiency. 

I feed him Kaytee Supreme Morning Dove Mix and Zupreem Fruit & Vegetable mix as treats. He doesn't get any other supplements.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

lwerden said:


> It seems like he sees fine out of the good eye. He follows my finger around in a full circle. Also I walked out of the kitchen leaving him on the counter and he followed me down the hall, so I'm pretty sure his sight is OK in the only eye he has.
> 
> I am a little concerned about his flying. I'ts hard to explain, but it just doesn't seem quite as strong. I let him loose in mid air and although he still flew it seems to be for much shorter distances than before. He seems like he has to land as he would't be able to make it any further.
> 
> ...


Are you giving him grit? That probably doesn't have anything to do with what's going on, but he does need to have grit provided. Wouldn't hurt to give him vitamins once or twice a week either. 
I don't suppose you have a way of making a video and posting it?


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Renee,

I was told that the Kaytee Supreme Dove mix had the grit already in it and no need to give any additional grit. I haven't given him any other vitamins, but will get them if you think I should be giving them to him. What kind should I get??

Larry, I don't think the heat has anything to do with it. I have central airconditioning and the house is always maintained between 72/75 degrees F.

I'll post a few pictures and see if I can get me son to help me with a video.

Thanks to all!!!


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Louise,

After midnight, gotta go. Hope it turns out okay. Maybe make sure he has a bit of variety in food and drink, so he can choose if he has some need only he is aware of.

I live off peanut butter. Most Europeans have heard about it, but that's all. 

Well, just brainstorming, throwing out all sorts of weird stuff, 'cause sometimes that's ow you arrive at the right (although totally unrelated) answer.

At least I haven't suggested the little green men that live behind my fridge.

But it does sound like maybe it could be nutrition-related, such as a calcium deficiency, since you mention he doesn't seem as robust as before. Sometimes an occasional manufactured batch of food which "contains all you need" misses a step in the processing, like the cars manufactured on Mondays and Fridays which formerly didn't get the quality controls they needed because of people calling in sick those days, or the recent tomato/salsa contaminated foods. And not everyone can digest or process or tolerate every form of calcium salt (such as calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, etc.) or other forms of other minerals.

Larry


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

*Pictures & Video*

I hope I have been able to post these properly.

I can't figure out how to attach the video. Is there a special procedure for the video - it would'nt up load like the pictures.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

The only way I know to show a video is to upload it to YouTube..........

http://www.youtube.com/


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Still trying to get the video posted. His flying actually seems a little weaker now than it did earlier.

I can't upload the video and I would really like you to be able to see it!!!


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Renee.......I know absolutely nothing about UTube. My son just went out, but whe he gets back, I'll have him post it for me.

I'm definately getting concerned about my baby now.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

lwerden said:


> Renee.......I know absolutely nothing about UTube. My son just went out, but whe he gets back, I'll have him post it for me.
> 
> I'm definately getting concerned about my baby now.


How long is the video? You could send it to me and I'll post it. I have an account with YouTube.
If you want, send it to'

[email protected]


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Louise, did you check the pupil with a flashlight ..... you know .... pinpointing and dilating as you shine directly in or move away??


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Renee, 

Thanks so much but I couldn't get it to email to you either. I guess I'll have to wait until my son gets home. I'm really not that computer savy.

Nona,

No, I didn't do it with a flashlight, but I will do it the way you suggested.

Thanks everyone!!! soooooooooo much


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

*video of jack flying*

http://www.youtube.com/v/UYa4YFakRh8&hl=en&fs=1


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I watched the video several times & I do believe it is his eyesight that is his problem. Either he is losing sight in his right eye or he simply cannot deal with the lack of depth perception to land on unfamiliar places. I would test him in a totally different room .. . maybe your bedroom. Lift him high as you can over your bed and just let go ... drop him ... and see what he does. If your son is taller, let him lift & drop.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I don't know. It does seem like he's struggling a little bit and it was obvious he wasn't going to the fridge. But, it could be that he's getting older and is more aware of where he's flying and where's he going and isn't just taking off full blast because of limited space. That's just a guess...........all I know is to just keep an eye on him. If he's eating and drinking and pooping (good poops) and seems to be himself other wise............


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Thanks Nona & Renee,

I did the eye test using the flashlight. I did it in a dark room and his pupil appears to get bigger and smaller as you move the light closer and away from him. I really think is one eye is OK. 

It just appears to me that as the day has progressed his flight has been getting lower and much shorter distances. It's like he doesn't have the lift, speed or strength he had even 1 day ago. Otherwise, in all other ways he seems perfectly normal.

The natural sunlight/Vitamin D issue - could lack of sunshine or vitamin D have this effect. I was putting him out in his cage on the patio every morning for about 1 hour, but for the last month it has been so hot and humid here I haven't been doing it. 

Could this be the problem??? Can I supplement the vitamin D with a pill or liquid.??

Thanks to all for your help.

Louise


----------



## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, you've pretty well eliminated eyesight problem so maybe nutritional. You can boost his calcium intake by scraping a cuttle bone and dusting the powder over his food after you glisten it with a couple drops of Vitamin A. About a teaspoon of the cuttlebone powder every day for a week and see if he gets any stronger. Even though the sun is so hot...I would give him about 10/15 minutes a day of direct sun...take a plant sprayer and spray him if he gets too hot too fast.


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I hope it all gets straightened out. It originally sounded like he was spooked by something, that's how mine act when they are spooked; very reluctant to return to the same area or height. My second thought was the depth-perception problem. Mrs. Bird is blind in one eye and though she will fly to me, she often has to helicopter around me for a few moments before she is able to land on my shoulder or head.  It's like us trying to drive a car with one eye closed, it's really hard to do because you're missing a key element to depth perception. Or, maybe he accidentally fell off somewhere high or misjudged a landing and it scared him? I hope he feels better tomorrow.


----------



## nbdyuknow (Apr 10, 2007)

From my experience (with one "house pigeon"), it could also be a case of "pigeon preferences." Sometimes, Sophie likes to fly to the top of the fridge and strut around, declaring that area her own. Other times, she has no interest in it at all, and will actually avoid the fridge to land on the floor or a lower counter. 

Watching the video, it didn't seem like Jack _wanted to go to the fridge and couldn't make it, it just seemed like he was looking for somewhere else to go. I am not saying that you shouldn't be attuned to what is going on, but I know myself, sometimes I think I overscrutinize every single one of Sophie's actions. If she has one or two loose poops, I start to worry, but then everything is OK. If she sneezes three times in quick succession, I start to worry, and then everything is OK.

Just my two cents. Hope all works out OK.

Bill B._


----------



## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

Thanks to everyone for you help and comments.

I've had Jack out of his cage for about 2 hours thismorning. He seems to want to just cling to me. I had to force him off my shoulder. He seems very apprehensive. However, he did a bit of high flying. He flew up to the dining room chandlier and onto the curtain rod in the kitchen, but he wants absolutely nothing to do with the fridge. He will fly in the direction of the fridge, appears that he wants to go there and quickly changes his mind and makes sure he lands somewhere else.

I really think something happened to him either up on the fridge or flying on the way to the fridge that I am unaware of. He is totally spooked by it. In every other way he seems perfectly normal. If that is the case, I guess it will take awhile for him to get over his apprehension. 

I'm going to keep a close eye on him and try not to become so overly worried. I am also going to get the cuttle bone and the vitamin A for him. It's just too hot here in Las Vegas this time of the year for him to be in the sun. The temperature should break at the end of the month and we'll go back to our mornings out on the patio.

Thanks again for all your help.

Regards,
Louise


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

lwerden said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Thanks to everyone for you help and comments.
> 
> ...



Louise.......he's your baby, so you do what you want to do and feel comfortable with..however, the sun will not hurt him for a little while and will be good for him. My birds are out all day every day, even when it's 100 degrees. I've got pictures of them laying on the roof of the loft where it's GOT to be more than 100 degrees, with their tails and wings spread out. They LOVE the sun shine. They know they need what it provides. Now I'm not saying put him out there and leave him, but a few minutes a couple of times a day will not hurt him.


----------

