# Two juvenile ferals found - advice please (UK)



## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi this is a great forum by the way!. I found 2 juvenile feral pigeons the other night my dad told me he had seen them that day in a panic crossing the road and that he thought the parent had been killed as there was an adult dead on the road i went to the place just before dark and the 2 youngsters were huddled in a shop doorway so i brought them home and they are in my garage i have been putting seed down and they are eating for themselves and drinking etc and bathing they seem quite grown up but their chest bones are so scrawny. I would like to release them when they are ready they are already flapping their wings. I just wanted to know how i can fatten them up and about their thin chestbone also do you think it is best to release them where i found them it is down a alley in the town and there are a huge flock of pigeons that live on the roofs and have done for years and years, any advice you could give me i would really appreciate as i want what is best for the bird andwant them to be wild again, they are quite scared of me which i think is good and i dont want them to be tamed so limit my contact as much as possible,

thanks
emma


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Emma,

Well done for going back and picking these youngsters up. Tragic if it was their parent that had been killed.

It does sound like they need feeding up. Unfortunately the've lost the parent that would have been showing them what to eat and how to scavenge and find food.
Feed them a good wild bird seed and you could also top them up with defrosted peas or sweetcorn.
You do need to keep them wild if they're to be released but if they're already wary of you that's fine, they're not so likely to imprint on you at this age. So you could put some peas on the ground and see if they take them.
The trouble is if they're to survive in the town they don't often see bird seed around the streets and so you could also put some wholemeal bread down, (maybe the odd McDonalds), I'm joking about that, but to be honest I've found when I've thrown seed down to some town ferals, they ignore them as they don't know it's food!!

For now to get them fattened up make sure they have plenty of food about and monitor them to make sure they're eating.

Not very nice I know but their poops tell you a lot about whether they're eating ok.

If you can pick them up also have a look in their throats to make sure they're clear and pinkish. If you see any yellowy cheesey lumps let us know as that will need treating.

What area are you from in case there's a rescue centre nearby that can help get them ready for release.

Keep us up to date and we'll try and help you along.

Good luck

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Emma,

Thank you for rescuing the babies and taking them to safety. If they had fledged they would be able to fly and the father bird would show them around, it sounds as if the poor things might have had their nest destroyed and one of the parents killed. Heving each other will help them, nest mates of that age are very forn of each other and stick together.

Mixed corn and wild bird food are good and nutritious. To fatten them up you could five them raw crumbled peanuts and sunflower hearts.

I find that it is best to take them to a rescue centre before releasing them, so that they can mix with other pigeons and already be acclimatised to living out doors, then leave as a mini flock. There might be a rescue centre near you on *this list*.

If you mist them with a little clean water each day it will help their feathering and help their water proofing. Yoiungsters risk getting soaked and developing hypothermia as a result.


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Guys thanks for geting back to me so quickly. They have been eating the wild bird seed i have been putting down i will try corn and peanuts. I have put a washing up bowl with water in not too deep ant they have been having a bathe each day in it do you think this is a good idea or just remove that and demist them??. They are not getting tame whcih i dont want as i would like them to be released i have phoned my local wildlife centre flintshire wildlife where i have taken birds before and he said he can take them or i was thinking of trying to rehabilitate them myself and release them at first i thought near my home but there are only the odd few pigeons around here and not really flocks of them. Do you think it is better for them to go to the centre to mix with other birds and then they can be released ????

thanks
emma


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

emma1978 said:


> Hi Guys thanks for geting back to me so quickly. They have been eating the wild bird seed i have been putting down i will try corn and peanuts. I have put a washing up bowl with water in not too deep ant they have been having a bathe each day in it do you think this is a good idea or just remove that and demist them??. They are not getting tame whcih i dont want as i would like them to be released i have phoned my local wildlife centre flintshire wildlife where i have taken birds before and he said he can take them or i was thinking of trying to rehabilitate them myself and release them at first i thought near my home but there are only the odd few pigeons around here and not really flocks of them. Do you think it is better for them to go to the centre to mix with other birds and then they can be released ????
> 
> thanks
> emma


As Cynthia said and I would say if you've got a good rescue centre that will take them then it's good for them to be amongst others for release as they will fare better in a flock situation.

Janet


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## Budd (Jul 20, 2010)

Emma, your goona be busy with those pigeons for the next 4 to 6 weeks if you choose to raise them yourself. If you you drop them off at a Rescue Center just make sure they have a "no kill policy" for pigeons.


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Yes the rescue centre i have taken birds too before is very good they take in anything they will never refuse anything. I was thinkin of releasing them just out of my garden but maybe this isnt a good idea as there isnt any flocks as such just the odd few pigeons what do you think??? and would it be good to release them where i found them as would the others recognise them??


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## Budd (Jul 20, 2010)

I always release my pigeons where i found them. It doesn't matter if they are recognized or not. All that matters is that they are part of a flock.


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hello, yes i am going to release them where i found them and they can continue to learn from the flock they will be ready in about 2 weeks or less, can anyone tell me though how i can fatten them up a bit i am worried about their breastbones they are very prominent still and they seem to still be underweight, they are foraging and eating seed for themselves and i have given them grit etc but how can i help them to gain weight. Their poo also seems a bit gooey and very light brown in colour???

Thanks


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## Budd (Jul 20, 2010)

I don't think they will be ready for release until the 3rd week of september. Giving them to a "no kill" rescue center would be best. Gooey poo isn't good at all. You may have to hand shower their bottom area if the poo doesn't come all the way out and gets stuck on the feathers. Gooey poo could mean that they have internal problems that could be life threatining. Other people on here can go into more detail about the poo.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

hello I would not release these two pigeons back in to the environment where you found them because they needed help then. It would be best if you took them to a wildlife rescue centre where they would be released with others, possibly near to the sanctuary and will probably be fed.Several wildlife centres I know of always have their released pigeons sitting on the roof waiting for food!

Where are you based? We could advise you of a place which would see that the pigeons are released safetly.

I can understand why you want to release where found because there is a flock there, but the pigeons will probably roost elsewhere. An alleyway is a vulnerable place to release with too many hazards. You could release nearby but it would be best for the birds to go in to an aviary first.

Others who have more knowledge on this matter hopefully will give their opinion.
Best wishes Jayne


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I would agree with Jayne's advice. She has lots of experience and spends every day going out and rescuing street birds so knows all to well how the vulnerable ones struggle.
It is a very hard life for them as they've already found and a wildlife centre will give them the back up of a place to always find food even after release.

The original flock won't necessarily know them so there's no advantage to them going back there really.

It is a gamble where ever they go but the centre will monitor them and know when they're fit enough to go.

Best of luck with them.

Janet


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hello everybody the pigeons are seeming to be doing well and growing i have had them 4 weeks now and was hoping to release them soon. The wildlife rescue i would have taken them to rehabilitate however is full and he says he has no pigeons in at the moment and his aviaries are full with birds of prey. I have spoken to my friend however who has aviaries in her garden with rescued pigeons all of them are old except one and they live there in the aviary. She has offered to take these 2 pigeons and keep them in the aviary so it means they will live in captivity which is not something i really wanted she says if i release them it may be too cold and they may not survive whereby she can offer them a permanent safe home forever, she fears they have been used to being handfed for 4 weeks and may not be able to survive in the wild, i am not sure what to do whether to let them live with her or try to get them released i know of another rescue centre who might take them and then let them go when they are ready it is more in the country or should i just release them with a flock but they have had no natural light and been fed by me for the last 4 weeks and i have been keepin them in the garage aahh Please help i dont know what to do???!!!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Emma,

Great to hear the pigeons are doing ok.

I can imagine you're in two minds about releasing them, it's a difficult one.

Are they hand tame now and still used to you feeding them or do they pick up seeds for themselves?

If they're used to human contact then it will be hard for them to adapt to wild liiving as they will have to forage every day for scraps.
I feel it's not so bad releasing them somewhere where you know they are fed daily and have shelter, but if they have no idea about city life then as daft as it sounds they'd be just as happy in an aviary with others where they will be looked after and be fed well.

How big are your friend's aviaries? Will they have room the fly about a bit as they need to be able to exercise being young.

Janet


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Janet, they are not handfed and are eating for themselves they are quite wary of me which is a good thing and fly off if i go too near they are flying well and perching. I try to limit my contact with them as much as possible and go and check on them twice a day i know places i can release them with other pigeons and where io live its a small town not a city. Do you think its possible to release them into the outdoors from my garage without them having seen any natural light for 4 weeks??? my friends avaiary is not too big to be honest but they will be able to fly in there and perch, i just want them to be happy!!


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello I would take up your kind offer of your friends aviary. I am on street level every day where I feed and monitor the local flocks. I see the feral pigeons struggling to survive, alot of them living on the edge of starvation. If you release the pigeons now they will have to forage and try to survive the oncoming winter Also they will have predators including people to look out for.

Feral pigeons are very adaptable as well as being partly domesticated and I have been advised by people who have been rescuing pigeons for twenty five years that an aviary would be a sanctuary for them. If they can flap their wings and get on with the others in that aviary they will be happy. Pigeons congregate together under bridges and nest almost on top of each other. They are not birds that require too much territory.

Please take up this kind offer. You will have the peace of mind knowing that they will not be suffering and you will also beable to see them.

Of course it is your decision in the end and I understand that you want the pigeons to be happy. To live a life in captivity does not mean a pigeon will be unhappy. The pigeon will know it has a friend in whoever cares for it and will reward that person greatly in all sorts of ways.

Best wishes Jayne


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Your pigeons would do just fine if you release them from your window, in your yard..
they will find their way around
just cause the babies were staying at your place...
dont mean they are soooooooo tame as some people claim...
they will do just fine being released from your window.
Rescue centers are the last options even if the bird is handicaped.
and to imprison them is inhumane..
i released plenty of pigeons... and never have i taken them to the place i found them at...
that is just like throwing you in the jungle.
what you need to do. is spend some time with them outside. dont worry they will not run avay. they are not stupid parrots.
they need to get used to your area...
trust me they will find the flock they wanna go to.
and better yet they will always come back to you...might not be every day but eveyr once in a while they like to visit their home, which is your house.
i wouldnt trust a rescue center specially if they have no pigeons right now.
i let my pigeons hang around outside for about 3 weeks before they are considered released.... usually they leave when they feel like it..
they will fly around your house, neighborhood.. finally they will find a flock around your way.
all my pigeons are doing well.
i would go crazy if i released them downtown....

i wouldnt let them be imprisoned...
and who said they might be cold???????
that is apsurd? pigeon getting cold?
this is their natural habitat.. if u took him to iceland well yeah they might be cold..
but they are build for tuff weather, hot weather... etc
you want yur birds to be happy, let them go from your yard...
they will find their way around...
and at least you'll be able to see them every once in a while
it would be inhumane to have them in the cage, even in the house.
those are wild birds.. 
and would never deprive a pigeon of its freedom...
why are we rescuing them if we gonna imprison them ....
you never hand fed those birds..
and they are imprinted on themselfs..
two birds gonna do fine. they gonna stick together..
and its only gonna take them a day to find other pigeons in the area...
been there done that
all my babies that i released are doing fine..
i think you gonna make a big mistake if u let them go to the "rescue center"


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

they will for sure be coming back to you....
you can always leave the food out ...
but at least they are free.
dont forget how smart they are..
they learn real quick...
they learn to forage for food... 

its not all about the food tho. most people think they doing a pigeon a favor by keeping ferals locked in the house with food..
thats not true...
have you ever seen their flocks fly??
300 ferals flying is a piece of art. they are happy..
thas why they have those wings..
if u would like to know more about how to release them.. u can always contact me on facebook....

this picture i added is from my last released couple...
do they look like thhey suffering?
they hang around my way in the morning... at lest i can see them...
u will be happy when your birds start coming around your way....


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

one more thing...
for all the people that think pigeons might not be able to survive..
let me point out few facts about instinct animals in general have.

now when u get a baby pigeon that needs hand feeding ...how in the world does it knw that ame second that food comes out of surringe..
or when you find a juvenile pigeon.. how in the world does he knows that when offered seeds he should eat it.

i noticed with all my releses and i also read a lot about instict and what birds like..
How do they know??? instince, and their eyes are always attracted to little round dots on the ground.. so they eat anything.. pigeons are like pigs... whatever it is as long as it fits in their beak.. 

even if they dont come back to you and they will,, they will manage.. they will copy other pigeons, thats what baby pigeons do.. 
with parents or without..

they been around fo thousands of years.. do u think that one batch of babies wont know what to do...its in their genes.
most people here deal with homing-racing pigeons...some of them never raised or released a bird in their life and they will always advise you to keep the bird.. in a nice lil cage or a rescue centar with all the other unlucky birds that have been keept in the happily ever after cage.

reason why im so agains keeping the ferals in the house.. is because i know better. and i been there and done that, and i know for the fact that they are happy free.

one more thing...
they really chose to be free..,reason why i say that...
all the released birds used to come back every day..first week they would come home to sleep in the cage... second week u dont see them coming home to sleep in the cage anymore.. they stop by in the morning.. after they sleept outside...
third week u cant even touch them anymore..thats how fast they adapt to their surroundings...
its instinct...

its my oppinion that u should release them from your place.. eventually they will turn into the bird u wil need binocculars to spy on....

they really are better off being free...


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## emma1978 (Aug 17, 2010)

yes i was thinking of doing this and the guy at the rescue centre said to do this but i am so worried about this firstly i have 4 cats and i would hate them to come in the garden and get taken by one of my cats i would feel so guilty and if they hang around for a while they will increase their chances of being eaten perhaps???? i have a tall bird feeder where feral and woodpigeons come and eat from so there are pigeons around but i am worried about them trying to fend for themselves do you think they will and find places to shelter we are coming into winter here in the uk and it gets cold. I myself do not really want them to be in captivity i would love for them to be free but want them to have the best chances of survival


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

u all ready have pigeons coming in your garden..
what are you worried about 
how do other ferals survive, thats how your birds will too.

believe me.. give those birds 10 days before you are not able to approcah them anymore.
released babies are even less trutworthy that other ferals.
my released babies are scared of other humans, scared of almost anything..
because their instict tells them i dont trust this, or that.
when my pigeons come to the widnow, i can hardly open the window without them getting scared.
and that is a great thing.
i would be worried that after 2 months of freedom they still tame..
they are wilder than other ferals i encounter in the city...
im proud of my birds.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello, I would not release these two pigeons.

IF they had been adult pigeons when you rescued them and had already learnt the skills needed to protect themselves from predators,and find their own food and was part of a flock I would agree with goga 82 that releasing them was the best bet. 

However you found these pigeons as young squabs and took them out of their environement because they were vulnerable. Putting them back 'to be free in the wild' or 'out of kindness' or 'so they will be happy' will not be helping them now. They are unused to foraging for themselves, do not have the safety of belonging to a flock, and are more vulnerable to predators including people.

Also as winter is approaching finding food will be more difficult for them.(Goga 82 did not read my posts correctly. I never said that the pigeons would get cold if they were released in the winter)

You say your friend has offered the pigeons a place in a private aviary (not a wildlife rescue centre as goga 82 has mistakenly implied). I think this is a very kind offer indeed and even if it was a Wildlife rescue centre, this does not mean that the pigeons would live a miserable life behind bars as goga 82 suggests.

Pigeons are partly domesticated and have lived alongside man for thousands of years. They have also lived happily in captivity with people caring for their needs.Your pigeons could live a safe and contented life in an aviary or you could let them go to take their chances. If they had ben adults used to being 'free in the wild' I would agree with goga 82. However they were young squabs and to put them back' into the wild to be free' as goga 82 suggests is in my opinion a naive, and romantic one.

You have to get real and the harsh reality is that you simply cannot think you can take a bird out of its environment (even if it is to help it and save a life) then release it back there when it has not learnt how to survive or protect itself. If it had been an adult, I would agree with goga 82.

For goga82 to suggest that all pigeons/birds kept in captivity in Wildlife rescue centres 'behind bars and not free'and leading miserable lives, is a narrow minded view and an insult to those who dedicate themselves to helping wildlife .A pigeon can live a life in captivity and have a qualityof life that is free in a different way. A life where they are free to eat when they like, a life where they are safe and free from predators and the cruelty from people, and a life where they can have a disabilty but not suffer as a result.Giving a pigeon a second chance, albeit with a different kind of freedom is not cruel.

I think to release these birds now would be a mistake and a waste of all the time and effort you have gone in to caring for them.A life in an aviary where they can fly and eat and be safe is also a freedom which Im sure would be appreciated.

I know you want to what is best for these pigeons and whatever your decision, I appreciate the time and effort you have taken to try and work out what is best for them, We all have our different opinions but you have to decide in the end. Please keep us updated. Best wishes Jayne


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

PigeonQueen said:


> Hello, I would not release these two pigeons.
> 
> IF they had been adult pigeons when you rescued them and had already learnt the skills needed to protect themselves from predators,and find their own food and was part of a flock I would agree with goga 82 that releasing them was the best bet.
> 
> ...



since u such an expert on what should and should not be released..
tell me how come all the released babies.. BABIES that i raised. that were younger that these pigeons, that were hand fed.. for a long time

how come they aint dead yet???
in the wild???
how come they survived?
they been free for months and yet.. judging by your post they bout to die???
is that what you saying??

OMG my pigeons not gonna make it..they been released few months ago, and i release them as soon as they are weaned.. i dotn wait till they all grown  
thats crazy.

Can you tell me when they gonna die ????
And how they gonna survive? (( OH MY GOD maybe i made a mistake releasing them few months ago.. maybe after all you are right they might not survive hahahhaah yeah im being sarcastic

should we keep all the pigeons we raise, rehabilitate???? 
wow 
makes no sense...

im just suprised how my pigeons survived an still living .. since u such an expert and u assume they gonna die....
how do other birds survive in the winter. lets catch all ferals of the street so they can live happily ever after...

we talking about ferals not racing-homing pigeons..


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

yeah and i do think lot of "rehab people" make a mistake. they forget why they became a rehaber in the first place.
lot of rehab centers becoming their personal zoo's ..
people dont release animals as much as they should...
they keep them for their own satisfactions. 
It id not fair to animals ... 
Pigeons are often keept .. mostly people really keep pigeons after rescuing them..
why??
because pigeons are lovable birds. cuddly, and act like dogs. follow u around. like to be petted and all that other good stuff... when people keep pigeons they often think about them selfs not about bird happines.

Often people rescue pigeons.. one year they rescue 10 lets say.. and they keep them.. 
another year they find another 10.. 
and they all keept in cages in the house or god knows where else..because person is thinkng they helping them

that is called hoarding.
most people that rescue and pretend to be rehabers without any veterinary school, without licences and what not justbecome animal hoarders.. ( and we all know what hoarding means.....) u think you dong well but yo actually abusing animals  yeah


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

I would not release these two pigeons.

Goga you obviously have strong issues about wildlife rescue centres and rehabbers. Some of what you say might very well be true but to be totally negative against those who do alot of good work and dedicate themselves for the sake of the birds they rescue is an insult.

I do not wish to pursue an argument with you as I have little time so please forgive me if I do not respond to anymore of your posts.

I understand you have been successful in your way of doing things and it would be wonderful if we could release every bird/pigeon we rescue. It is not always possible or the right thing to do. Of course this is only my opinion and this is were we differ.End of discussion for me but I have not dismissed your comments.


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