# My pigeon loves raw ground beef...



## navamanas (Mar 17, 2016)

I have a young (8 month old) pigeon rescue that I have raised since she was 18-20 days old. I have no experience with birds, but I think that she has developed unusual dietary interests. She eats her seeds, but she is strongly inclined to eat raw, ground beef, raw beef liver, and egg yolks (I have been eating raw ground beef every day for the last 18 years). I know birds will eat eggs, but I was very surprised about the interest in beef. As far as I know, pigeons are mostly vegetarians, with a rare bug or two, so at first I allowed her just a tiny bit (a little sunflower seed sized bite). She fared well with it, so I've let her eat more. Now, several weeks later, she attacks the meat like a ravenous zombie, and I have to stop her because she won't stop eating it if I don't.

I think she became most interested after she laid her first batch of eggs on May 7th and 9th, 2016 (infertile - not interested in breeding her, since there are plenty of pigeons already!). Then, she laid another batch on June 19th and 21st.

I have been giving her extra grit (with lots of shell bits), and I've been making sure that she always has fresh seed and water every day, I make sure that she gets her favorite greens too - arugula and cilantro.

So, I can't help but thinking - is she missing something nutritionally, and will eating beef affect her health later on?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Eating raw beef is very foolish, for both you and the bird. You can pick up disease by doing that. You know that. Taking a chance with your own health is one thing, but taking a chance with the birds health is another matter. Besides the fact that they are not meat eaters, and their body isn't designed for digesting that.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree strongly with Jay3. Please don't feed that lovely bird raw meat. Pigeons can't digest that.


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## navamanas (Mar 17, 2016)

Thanks for the comments, but I'm looking for substantial information. I'm interested in knowing about specific food sensitivities and reactivity to beef within the pigeon metabolism, as well as underlying nutritional deficiencies that may be causing this particular craving. I know that pigeons do consume insects in the wild, but I'm not aware of pigeons scavenging carcasses...

----o----

@Jay3 & cwebster:

I grew up in Costa Rica, Chile, and as an adult I lived in India - so I don't get too up tight about North American pathogenic panic.

Raw meat is not dangerous or "foolish" to consume. And, no, you don't pick up diseases from raw meat. I would expound on this, but it wasn't the point of the posting.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would not feed raw meat to a pigeon, as not good for him. Instead, why not just focus on giving him the healthy things he needs. Then you know he is getting what he needs, and don't have to worry about him not getting some minerals or whatever. He is eating it because you are offering it. Of course they don't scavenge carcasses. But if it were a dead cow laying there, he wouldn't eat it then either. 
Give him a healthy pigeon mix, good pigeon grit, oyster shell or some form of calcium, and check the pigeon supply places online, where you can get extra minerals and such that they like and need. They come in blocks and things like that. Supposed to be what they would find out in the fields and such.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I have heard of someone giving fish to their birds, but extremely small amounts and they seemed to do well from the omega's in it. I do remember some pigeons craving a tiny bit of meat, but I believe that was cooked. 

I would be a bit concerned about pigeons eating raw also, as it has a different digestive rate then cooked meat. 

I would be very careful with any kind of beef, and/or liver, whether it be raw or cooked, that it is RANGE FED, (on grasses free from any kind of pesticides/fertilizers), never fed bi-products or added hormones/antibiotics-that I know can cause problems, especially if you eat liver.

I do get uptight about where my beef and or chicken is grown here in this country, as it matters to my health. 

My puppy eats raw once in awhile, but I also make sure her meat is not tainted. She gets an all natural wormer once a month. *


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## navamanas (Mar 17, 2016)

Since I live right on the beach, there are a number of sea birds - primarily gulls, waders and pelicans - that consume fish and crustaceans. Of course, there are plenty of crows, and for them anything goes.

My little hen's name is Clover. Clover's only observable change after consuming meat is slightly watery stool. This, though, is not unusual for any dietary change from her seeds alone. If Clover consumes cilantro (the veggie that she seems to prefer from what I have available), she gets watery stool. If she eats crumbs from any baked goods, she gets watery stool. Anytime that she goes back to seeds alone, her stool changes back within about 12 to 24 hours to moist, but firm.

No activity or mood changes resulting from dietary alterations have been observed.

@Skyeking: Yes, all of my beef is grass fed, grass finished, hormone-free, antibiotic free. Also, as a powerlifter for 29 years, and a triathlete for 4 years, I focus on optimal _human_ nutrition. On an equal weight ratio, raw meat metabolizes much more rapidly because the unsaturated fats have not been denatured the through heating process, and because the water content is higher.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You really are "Nava Manas", literally, if you know what I mean. Sorry, don't take it in a bad way!!!
Pigeons behave differently in controlled conditions. Cows don't eat meat but they eat afterbirth to tackle deficiencies. By looking at plumage of your pigeon I can tell she's not 100%
Give her what nature meant for her. Without scientific facts I wouldn't experiment.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

navamanas said:


> @Skyeking:* Yes, all of my beef is grass fed, grass finished, hormone-free, antibiotic free. Also, as a powerlifter for 29 years, and a triathlete for 4 years, I focus on optimal _human_ nutrition. On an equal weight ratio, raw meat metabolizes much more rapidly because the unsaturated fats have not been denatured the through heating process, and because the water content is higher.


** Thank you for your response, that was my biggest issue. 

Yep. *


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would not feed your bird raw beef. Eat it if you choose but please offer your bird normal,pigeon food.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*raw beef*

Have you ever heard of Creautzfeldt-Jakob, mad cow disease? CJ is the human form of the disease. The cattle form is bovine spongiform encephalopathy. The source of mad cow was believed to be the feeding of cattle on feed that contained animal byproducts. Those sicken cattle when slaughtered led to human deaths. In addition to mad cow, raw beef can also be a source for E-coli which can affect humans and birds. Some strains of E-coli will kill humans and birds, and it is getting more drug resistant every day.

It is a bad idea to feed animals that are not carnivores on the meat or byproducts of other animals. Living organisms evolved to thrive on their niche foods. Pigeons niche foods are grains. Humans evolved a omnivores, and meat is part of our historical diet, but with today's agricultural practices I think eating raw meat is taking more risk than is wise.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Let's hope your bird doesn't get Neospora Caninum from the raw beef then. As a raw feeder of my five dogs I always make sure beef is frozen for three days before feeding it to them because it has killed dogs in the past and most beef herds carry it to some degree. While we don't have a Trichinosis in pork in the UK, NC is pretty widespread in cattle. 

My thoughts are - just why?


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## navamanas (Mar 17, 2016)

*@FredaH*: The only definitive host for Neospora caninum is the Canidae family.

Also, I do not eat pork. The the lectin that occurs in pork (PHL), flocculates serum and precipitates serum proteins. It can negatively modify disease susceptibility as well; i.e., I do not eat pork. No one in their right mind should. I would never feed it to an animal either.

-------o-------

*@Chuck K*: Creautzfeldt-Jakob is caused by the misfolding of protein molecules. Prion proteins propagate this process. This occurs from an already compromised immunity. That's the really short and low-fi explanation. My dad and my sister are MD's my fiancée is an RN. I studied microbiology. I spent several years in central America, so yes, I'm familiar with a wide variety of diseases.

-------o-------

*@Jass SamOplay*: Animals eat the afterbirth because they become anemic after giving birth, so consuming the raw materials to fabricate new blood cells speeds recovery. Humans used to do the same. Some probably still do.

As to her plumage, the photo was taken on March 1, 2016, 9:21 AM. She hatched around November 14, 2015 (she was between 19 and 21 days old when I found her). Therefore, she was about 3 1/2 months old in that photo. Your assessment of the condition of her feathers is inaccurate. Her color was just coming in at that time, and she was still molting. She's difficult to photograph well, but I love that picture because it shows her personality.

*Nava* (नव): New, recent, young, fresh (there are a total of 20 meanings)
*Manas* (मनस्): Imagination, intellect, will, understanding, mood, perception, mind (there are a total of 24 meanings)

My meaning of *Navamanas* is "New Mind."

-------o-------

*At any rate, getting off of these tangents: I have concluded that Clover underwent a period of a few days where she became anemic. The meat helped her resolve it. I do not cage her and she has stopped interfering by her own accord when I am preparing meat (as I mentioned, I eat raw meat daily).*

Thank you all for your time and interest. This has all been very interesting.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

navamanas,
We come up here on PT for well being of pigeons and many of us are keeping pigeons for quite a long time. We have tried giving them different feedmixes and results were evident,but ofcourse I never tried meat. What we guys on here are trying to do is to advice you that pigeons are raw grain eaters. Just to remind you of some raw and simple facts cuz I think you've forgotten since you've taken things hypothetically to a level that your pigeon may be suffering,darling. There are numerous species of pigeons and not all consume insects out of taste. The breed of pigeon of which your bird is,doesn't consume meat in open out of choice.
They eat grains,seeds and grit like pebbles, granite etc which act as "grinding mill" in their gizzard.
They Can't Digest Meat because they aren't designed to. If pigeons have severe worm infestation with worms of multiple types and we give a all round dewormer they can't even pass/digest the huge numbers of dead worms and may die. How could you expect your pigeon to digest huge quantities of meat? You never know your bird might be throwing up and your other pet might be eating up the thrown out pieces.


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