# URGENT. 40 day old pigeon wont walk all of a sudden.



## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

I have a 40 day old King Pigeon that I got from a live poultry market about a week ago. I had put a few posts up, since right after I got her, she started having very watery droppings, mixed in with normal droppings, almost like she was peeing and pooping separately. She also had a few nosebleeds on her right nostril.

I started giving her a Apple cider vinegar in her water, just a small amount until I could get medicine, and I started giving her Nutritional Yeast mixed in with her food, which is a super market version of brewers yeast, all I could find in San Francisco, ingrdients are: Inactive dry yeast, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6) Thiamin (B1), Riboflavin (B2) Folic Acid (B9) and Vitamin B12.

She was doing a LOT better, droppings still a bit wattery, but her sinuses had cleared up, and she wasn't as "poofy" when laying down. Then I got her medicine a few days ago, it is a 4 in 1 powder for Preventative or curative treatment of Canker, Coccidiosis, E. Coli and Paratyphoid. (20g Furaltadone and 7g Ronidazole per 100g) I Suspected she might have Canker, though no nodules. The 2nd day of giving it to her in her water, she stopped walking, only flying everywhere, or flapping her wings to turn around or move a few feet. I thought she was just getting use to her wings, though she has been flying for a few days, but today (day 2) she didn't want to eat, and refuses to stand up, though she flaps to move around, and if i put her next to water, she will drink and peck at food. She is sleeping a lot, but eyes seem bright, and she pecks at things and etc, like she might just not feel the best, but I am worried because she will not stand on her legs. When she lays down, she stretches them out in froont of her, which seems odd. 

Any idea of what could be going on here? She still has watery white droppings that seems thicker now, and watery green poops, not bright green, but they come seperately. I have to clean her a lot because she is just laying in her droppings, but, like I said, she doesn't seems horribly sick, just a blit "blah" if even, wants to leep a lot, but not all "fluffy" like she was.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

No, she is horribly sick. You need to get her into the vet tomorrow. If it was my bird I would take her to the emergency vet now just so we could get blood work back even a few hours earlier. Birds hide their illness very well, by the time they are this ill they may be dying and can go downhill fast. 
Hopefully it’s just calcium/vitamin D deficiency, but it could be literally anything. The 4 in 1s are not good for anything. You don’t want to throw a bunch of medications at a sick bird; treating a compromised animal with the inappropriate meds can make them worse much faster. It is MUCH safer AND cheaper to diagnose things properly and treat them with the appropriate meds. The shotgun method does far more harm than good.


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## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

*Re:*

I agree, as it is at a point where she either pulls through or doesn't, I don't have other options that I can institute on my own. I noticed her droppings are a bit greener than normal, and after reading a bit more, it sounds like E. Coli, as she has started wlaking a little bit, but seems very stiff. Here is my problem with Vets, and maybe someone can point me the right way. I am recovering from a prior head injury and am more or less disabled in terms of employment, without the added benefit of getting a disability income. The primary reason for getting into pigeons was more as a rehab hobby/companion, as I am mostly dealing with only the psychological side effects, such as PTSD at this point in my recovery.

I am in San Francisco and went through quite a few vets and the ones that did offer payment arrangements which were not "credit based" did not take pigeons or birds. I did reach out to Palomacy, a pigeon rescue group here in San Francisco, but have not heard back yet. 

I am in downtown San Francisco, so if someone can make a recommendation, that would be great. She has spent every night sleeping on my chest, so I have become quite fond of her and really want to do all I can to avoid her health getting worse, along with the accompanied heart-ache


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

You can not be in the rehab and or hobbie with live animals if you can’t drive or afford a doctor that can treat them if they get sick. 

My suggestion is to see if palomacy can take him, if he lives.


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## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

I asked for recommendations of vets in the area that would be affordable or have payment options, I never said I just can't afford to go to a vet at all, also never said I don't have any transportation. The few places with immediate openings that I have been able to contact that take birds and have immediate openings have mostly been bird hospitals for exotics, and are quoting me $220-$240 for that visit. Hence why I am asking for places that would be more affordable or with additional payment options, while laying out my current status so people wouldn't even bother referring me back to the same places I have already checked out, while giving me advice or options in the area that would be better for me or that even have programs catering to people with therapy-related pets.

I don't know many people that can abruptly cover a huge vet bill a week after putting a large amount towards a cage, bed, toys, food, nutritional supplements, meds and etc, especially toward the end of the month. If it was the beginning of the month, I'd pay for an exotic bird hospital without a second thought. If one of those places offered me a 15-day payment plan, that wasn't dependent upon a sparkling credit history, I would be on top of it.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Astrodragon said:


> I asked for recommendations of vets in the area that would be affordable or have payment options, I never said I just can't afford to go to a vet at all, also never said I don't have any transportation. The few places with immediate openings that I have been able to contact that take birds and have immediate openings have mostly been bird hospitals for exotics, and are quoting me $220-$240 for that visit. Hence why I am asking for places that would be more affordable or with additional payment options, while laying out my current status so people wouldn't even bother referring me back to the same places I have already checked out, while giving me advice or options in the area that would be better for me or that even have programs catering to people with therapy-related pets.
> 
> I don't know many people that can abruptly cover a huge vet bill a week after putting a large amount towards a cage, bed, toys, food, nutritional supplements, meds and etc, especially toward the end of the month. If it was the beginning of the month, I'd pay for an exotic bird hospital without a second thought. If one of those places offered me a 15-day payment plan, that wasn't dependent upon a sparkling credit history, I would be on top of it.


Try pet insurance. But while you are seeking the pigeon is sick. So if you can take him then do so ASAP.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

In your area, you have Palomacy, as well as the greatest vets in the country (Dr Speer and Dr Olsen at Medical Center for Birds in Oakley). We have traveled four hours each way to take our birds to Medical Center for Birds. Please reach out to one of those. Palomacy has a facebook page.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have you checked way down her throat with a flashlight? Is there anything down there that looks cheesy? If she isn't eating then you need to hand feed her. Does she drink a lot when you offer the water? Can you post pics of how she sits with the legs out?


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## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

*Re*

I haven't seen any growths in her throat, though I haven't really pried her mouth open and really looked yet. She is drinking water just fine, but with food, so far just for today, she pecks at it, picks up smaller pieces and drops it. I did hand feed her 3 canned peas, and once I had it between her beak, she swallowed it, though I have been trying not to stress her out just yet, and have conflicting info as to if I should or not feed her due to potential crop issues if it isn't fully emptying. I do have Apple Cider Vinegar, along with Nutritional Yeast mixed in her water along with the 4 in 1 medications. 

I am not sure if the way her feet are is bad or not, since she is young, it is hard to say. She has been moving around a bit more today, still just flapping her wings, though she does stand for a bit at times, and she made it across the room to her second bed in the window. She will look a lot better, then look worse, sort of back and forth. Her legs look more like they are tight or inflamed, and one wing seems to be droopy. I have also noticed the right bump on the top of her beak is red and larger than teh left one, which is the same one she has had 2 prior very light nose bleeds from, but last one was a week ago. 

When I put water in front of her or food, she sits there and kind of ignores it, then will all of a sudden perk up as if she just saw it, and drink a nice amount, but just peck at the food before she seems to lose energy again. This is why I am leaning towards E.Coli, due to the inflamed legs and droopy wing, and some respritory based issues with her nose runningbut her tongue and inside her mouth are just fine.

One question, could this be a side effect of the Furaltadone? I have seems a few articles that say a normal side effect is an increase in well, being miserable.. This is half way into day 3 of starting the medications, and 2 days into the increased lethargy and not walking, which started about 24 hours after starting the 4in1. Yet I can't be sure if it is the cause or not. I guess the biggest thing I can't get info on or rather get conflicting info on, is if this is a standard side effect of the treatment and it is working, or if she is taking a turn for the worse.

Another random Question. If this is E.Coli or Salmonella....she did come from a large and frequented live poultry market in Chinatown.. what is my responsibility in terms of public health? The birds are squab and intended as food, with some being sold live and others fully processed. Or is it even a public safety issue?

She is laying down in this picture, so her feet are stretched out in front of her rather than underneath her, so looks like she is standing, but is fully laying down.


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## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

*Re*

Another question.. It seems like she is losing feathers on her face, around her ear and stuff, or maybe it is just since she is young and they haven't fully grown in, but being about 40 days old, would she be starting any form of molt already? I remember my rescue had looked and acted like he was going to die at his first molt. 

I am just going through all the possibilities to get a more solid idea of what could be wrong or if it is a combo of more normal things mixed with something not as serious, while I wait for some other email responses in regards to a vet.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Losing feathers is a sign of canker. As well as drinking plenty of water. The green droppings can be because she is not eating. You will need to feed her more peas. Rather go for frozen peas defrosted in lukewarm water. Canned peas contain too much salt. Feed her at least 30 peas 3 times daily, total 90 for the day. Her droppings will be greenish when getting fed peas.

I would treat her for canker. Try to get Meditrich from Medpet. 40 mg once a day for 7-10 days.


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## Astrodragon (May 30, 2019)

*Update*

Unfortunately she just died about an hour before my vet appointment. She was looking better, I gave her a few peas agan by hand, and she ate, along with water that had honey and a bit of salt in it for electrolytes. I noticed her crop felt hard as if she had swallowed a marble. I came back to pet her, she moved forward for the water like she was thirsty, threw up a thick green phlem like fluid, and that was it. Earlier she had one bowel movement that was very dark green, nearly black.

I had thought she was choking from the pea i had given her, and proceeded to give her CPR for about 15 min. Her chest rose and dropped very easily, so she had no obstructions, and she had 0 signs of life or a heart beat within 10-15 seconds of vomiting. I might not have done compressions as fast as needed, I was doing 10-13 in between breaths, at about 2-3 hard compressions of her keel bone per second followed by 2-3 quick breaths before repeating. I am not sure if I did it right, I had learned canine CPR when I had gotten my two German Shepherds, and tweaked that with a speed increase and adjustment for pigeon physiology.

Might not have been the smartest thing if she had E.coli or Salmonella, and an odd thing, is i noticed a weird tingling in my mouth after, not a lack of oxygen tingling from blowing, but like when you eat something that numbs your mouth, but only where my lips had touched her beak.

I did examine her throat, and it was light pink, except for a little white that I took out with a kleanex, and looked like some oatmeal she had earlier in the day.

As I had said in my prior posts, I had gotten her from one of the most well known poultry and live poultry markets in SF, so I was expecting her to be quite healthy due to the FDA rules and inspections. I saw no signs of canker when examining her throat afterwards, and the only hypothesis I have is that when they do a 24-48 hour fast before selling/butchering, that caused a minor e. coli infection to go crazy, since I had her for just about a week and she had started the watery droppings on day 2.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm sorry you lost her.


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