# baby pigeons dying need help



## mmelloss (Nov 16, 2008)

Need Help my baby pigeons died. Don't know what happened the first egg hatched and the baby was alive for a day then the second egg hatched and that baby was only alive for a day too. YEsterday was very cold so i thought that maybe it died because it was to cold but today the other baby was being feed this morning and it lived through the cold last night and today was alot warmer it was like 40 degrees all day. I have two other birds that have a pair of eggs and i don't want there babies to die either because there eggs are expected to hatch in like 10 days or so what should i do because the nests are in secure locations. Can someone help me because this was my first set of babies and i don't want these birds to sit on there eggs until the babies hatch then have to waste that time for the babies to die. Someone told me that i didn't have to provide any heat until the babies were about 10 days old or so because the parents leave the nest more often when the birds become bigger. Help will be greatly appreciated because i'm new at this and i don't want to lose anymore baby especial from my other 2 pairs. Thanks


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

I've been using a heating fan with no problems,just make sure your loft is ventilated.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have mice in your loft?


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## mmelloss (Nov 16, 2008)

*no mice*



Charis said:


> Do you have mice in your loft?


no mice in the loft


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You might look at symptoms on this site and see if you can match symptoms with what is happening in your loft. It could be the cold but my guess is that the parents are passing an illness on to the babies.
It sounds like salmonella but I could be wrong.

http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php


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## Homer87 (Nov 2, 2008)

It could be the cold or illness pass from the parents.......Did you medicate or vaccinate the parents before breeding them........


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Another thing to consider...

I have had babies that were trampled to death after another cock got in the box and a fight broke out. This can happen at times. One way to relieve the threat is to make sure each pair has at least two boxes available to it. Also, try making the boxes unique in some way. Many breeders do this by making the fronts different colors. Mine were all white when this happened to me so rather than painting in the middle of breeding season I put up different colored playing cards in the back of each nestbox. Believe it or not, I didn't have one problem after doing this. Sometimes I guess they can get confused and fly up to the wrong box and before the intruder can figure out he is in the wrong box, a fight breaks out. I have also lost eggs occasionally to this behavior. Haven't had a problem since putting up the playing cards.

On a side note, how old is the breeding pair. I had a pair of yearlings last year that were mated together and they would abandon their babies at about 8 days old. They were too concerned about starting the next round and forgot about their babies in the nest. As two year olds this year I have not had a problem with them.

Just some thoughts.

Dan


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*dead babies*



mmelloss said:


> Need Help my baby pigeons died. Don't know what happened the first egg hatched and the baby was alive for a day then the second egg hatched and that baby was only alive for a day too. YEsterday was very cold so i thought that maybe it died because it was to cold but today the other baby was being feed this morning and it lived through the cold last night and today was alot warmer it was like 40 degrees all day. I have two other birds that have a pair of eggs and i don't want there babies to die either because there eggs are expected to hatch in like 10 days or so what should i do because the nests are in secure locations. Can someone help me because this was my first set of babies and i don't want these birds to sit on there eggs until the babies hatch then have to waste that time for the babies to die. Someone told me that i didn't have to provide any heat until the babies were about 10 days old or so because the parents leave the nest more often when the birds become bigger. Help will be greatly appreciated because i'm new at this and i don't want to lose anymore baby especial from my other 2 pairs. Thanks


barring illnesses,the environment you mention should be room temperature,/if you have two pairs of nesting pigeons,.keep the nests away from each other/mine are about 10 feet apart/no complications /and watch their behavior,..last monthi just had a death in paradise,on going detective work,i am not a happy camper/..sincerely james waller


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## mmelloss (Nov 16, 2008)

yeah but can it just take one day for them to die if an illness is passed because my birds all look healthy and their droppings all look healthy too


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## mmelloss (Nov 16, 2008)

no i don't medicate them they all seem heathly and full of life


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about the death of the babies.

It could be anything, I would not allow the parents to hatch anymore babies until you figure out what this is and follow up with treatment.


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## LA_BOY (Dec 28, 2013)

I had some sort of the same incident occur to me as well, my first couple had there 2 eggs than my second couple laid there's. Only one egg of both of my pairs hatched but my first couple started fighting and would trample on the young one so after it occurred more than twice I took the hen out. The other pair was doing fine and my grandma called and I asked her how we're the young ones she said the first young one died and the seconds pair young one is pretty big already. One question cause since this was my first time having young ones, did the first young one die because he didn't have the hen??


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The parents could be carrying an illness, and that could be why the baby died. Or it could have been taking away the hen. Leaving only the male with a baby isn't usually a good idea. A lone bird often won't raise a baby. It normally takes two parents, as it is a hard job.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Charis said:


> You might look at symptoms on this site and see if you can match symptoms with what is happening in your loft. It could be the cold but my guess is that the parents are passing an illness on to the babies.
> It sounds like salmonella but I could be wrong.
> 
> http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php


Well, i am back....i've had this problem of dying chicks within a week after they hatch....my vet told me it can't be an illness past to the chicks.....pigeons have a natural IMMUNITY to all diseases, bacteria, parasites, so no, it's not illness that your chicks died.....it's the cold...the nest is not warm enough and the hen/cock can't keep the chicks body temperature above 80 degrees.....chicks have no feathers all the warmth they get they get from the parent....it's the bottom of the nest getting cold that the parent has no control over....put microfiber dishcloths and plastic beneath them to keep the cold out is what i did...and my doves live inside with me....

mine died from heart attacks....since those deaths, i have insulated my doves nests with cardboard and plastic....and voila...i have had 4 successful chicks live ...the vet advised me to keep breeding them and if the next clutch died, she would do a biopsy...since chicks are born with a natural immunity...and she did NOT advise to give chicks any kind of antibotics....since they have natural immunity...chicks dying is not from diseases, etc....they simply got too cold...the body temp of a chick has to be above 80 degrees or they can't digest what they get fed....so keep your nests warm from bottom up!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

LA_BOY said:


> I had some sort of the same incident occur to me as well, my first couple had there 2 eggs than my second couple laid there's. Only one egg of both of my pairs hatched but my first couple started fighting and would trample on the young one so after it occurred more than twice I took the hen out. The other pair was doing fine and my grandma called and I asked her how we're the young ones she said the first young one died and the seconds pair young one is pretty big already. One question cause since this was my first time having young ones, did the first young one die because he didn't have the hen??


Yes, my hen would walk on her hen chicks.....what was happening was the mother hen didn't have enough food to feed both chicks....i wasn't giving them more than a teaspoon of food twice a day which was NOT ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED THE CHICKS AND MOM/DAD TOO....when i left bowls full of supreme dove/quail food....the parents ate for an hour then fed their chicks.......it was my fault for not giving the parents all the food they wanted to nurse their chicks! my advise is give them more food, so they can properly feed the chicks....when a parent walks on a chick, it's cause they know it is bound to die for lack of food. Chicks don't get sick...they have a natural immunity to all diseases/parasites, etc....they die from starvation or getting too cold.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Skyeking said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about the death of the babies.
> 
> It could be anything, I would not allow the parents to hatch anymore babies until you figure out what this is and follow up with treatment.


i respectfully disagree....breed them again, make sure the parents have a WARM nest, and plenty of food....the chicks will survive.....as far as only one egg hatching...it's cause the other egg got too cold. Should not be breeding pigeons in a cold loft outside....if you are gonna breed in the winter....bring them inside with you where it is warm 24/7


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## LA_BOY (Dec 28, 2013)

We'll the 4 rollers I have are inside my grandmas house in separated cages, the first pair that laid 2 eggs and only ONE young was born than later died now looks like there trying to have more eggs. The other pair only one egg hatched I just went over to my grandmas house to see how his doing he is pretty big just needs a little more feathers in his wing tips but the hen and male are taking care of him and feeding him when he squeeks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LeeLu said:


> Well, i am back....i've had this problem of dying chicks within a week after they hatch....*my vet told me it can't be an illness past to the chicks.....pigeons have a natural IMMUNITY to all diseases, bacteria, parasites, *so no, it's not illness that your chicks died.....it's the cold...the nest is not warm enough and the hen/cock can't keep the chicks body temperature above 80 degrees.....chicks have no feathers all the warmth they get they get from the parent....it's the bottom of the nest getting cold that the parent has no control over....put microfiber dishcloths and plastic beneath them to keep the cold out is what i did...and my doves live inside with me....
> 
> mine died from heart attacks....since those deaths, i have insulated my doves nests with cardboard and plastic....and voila...i have had 4 successful chicks live ...the vet advised me to keep breeding them and if the next clutch died, she would do a biopsy...*since chicks are born with a natural immunity...and she did NOT advise to give chicks any kind of antibotics....since they have natural immunity...chicks dying is not from diseases, etc....*they simply got too cold...the body temp of a chick has to be above 80 degrees or they can't digest what they get fed....so keep your nests warm from bottom up!


When you are having babies dying shortly after hatching, it is important to find out why before allowing them to breed any more. So that was good advice. And if the parents are carrying an illness that they are passing to the babies, then the parent birds are treated with the correct drug and then their droppings can be rechecked again to make sure they are now healthy. Then you can breed them again, but they shouldn't be hatching babies if you don't know why they are dying. Just not fair to the babies. Babies can also die from being too cold, but it is often disease.

I don't know where you got that info, but if it was from a vet, then you really need to find a new one. It can't be an avian vet, as no avian vet would say that. They would know better. To say that babies are born with natural immunity to disease and illness is crazy. They slowly build up immunities from having things introduced to them in small doses over a period of time. And there are diseases that the parent can pass on to the babies. And some of those diseases can be carried by the parent birds without them even showing symptoms of having them. That is when the parents are said to be carriers of the particular disease. I think you maybe need to read up on the more common pigeon diseases. You would be quite surprised at some of them, and how they can be passed on to others, including their babies.


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

LeeLu said:


> my vet told me it can't be an illness past to the chicks.....pigeons have a natural IMMUNITY to all diseases, bacteria, parasites, so no, it's not illness that your chicks died



I would change my vet!!!!!!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When someone keeps any bird or animal, you need to learn as much as you can about them. That way, there aren't so many surprises. And you are more prepared when things do happen. For instance, if you had read up more on keeping pigeons, you wouldn't have starved the babies that time. If you keep them, you should know how much food they require at the least. The more you know, the less you have to depend on someone else's advice who isn't so knowledgeable, and the fewer mistakes you will make. Read all you can on their care, and on their needs. Learn about their illnesses and what causes them and how to avoid them getting sick. Also a good idea to have a few meds on hand for the common things. It can take a while to get different meds when you need them. You may have healthy birds now, but that can change easily and quickly. And it isn't always something preventable. No matter how clean you keep them, or how good the feed is, or how clean the water, birds can get sick. So much better to be prepared than caught off guard. You owe that to any animal you keep.


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Check out these links.

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetusa/drdavidmarx/eggsbabies.cfm

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetusa/drdavidmarx/dying.cfm

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetusa/drdavidmarx/earlyfailure.cfm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for posting those. Good links.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

LA_BOY said:


> We'll the 4 rollers I have are inside my grandmas house in separated cages, the first pair that laid 2 eggs and only ONE young was born than later died now looks like there trying to have more eggs. The other pair only one egg hatched I just went over to my grandmas house to see how his doing he is pretty big just needs a little more feathers in his wing tips but the hen and male are taking care of him and feeding him when he squeeks.


Well, why are your rollers in cages if they are inside? How clean are the cages?

to tell you the truth, babies don't die unless they don't get enough food from the parents or they get cold.

Does your grandmother take care of these rollers, or do you? Do you live with your grandma? How do you know they are properly being cared for?

Doves need freedom
Doves need a place to bath EVERYDAY...they love to be clean, and they love cleaniness. Nature provides that prestine cleaniness in the wild...a pigeon can fly to a clean place...can you caged pigeons get away from a dirty cage?

Honesty people, pigeons have survived in the wild for centuries without antibiotics.....my doves are free to be who they are, they have a room, very clean, full of freedom to go inside or outside. Outside, they have a 2 story loft, food and perches on the top level, with indoor/outdoor carpet squares i bought at the dollar store that i clean twice a day... and the bottom level is clean beach sand, 50 lbs...i bought at lowes, they love to walk in and do eat, also they sleep in that sand in the afternoons.....the loft is open to a large bird-netted area outside, with perches and plants around...and two 10x14x2" plastic tubes with clean water for their daily bathing they love to set in and watch the world go by.... .they are free to go in and out all day until dark, when they come in on their own to perch for the night.

i believe that if you properly care for your pigeons, giving them all they need, and keeping their space prestine clean...you do not need antibotics, have they have a natural immunity, with proper food, garlic, mustard seed, peanuts, defeat parasites and worms.....that is how you keep your pigeons healthy.

some of you think you know more than a bird vet....so, thanks for your opinions about vets....some of you probably would not take your sick bird vet and trust yourself to treat your birds....i won't do that, trust my breeder who has taken care of homer pigeons since he was six years old and is now almost 50....and my vet...between the two, i think my pigeons have the best living conditions, and my breeder agrees with me, the less antibotics you give your pigeons, the better off they are!

i have 10 homers my oldest homer is over 2 years old......they don't get sick, because of the way i care for them......cleaniness is the most important part of their lives....if you don't give them 100% clean place 24/7 i assure you they will get sick.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LeeLu said:


> Well, why are your rollers in cages if they are inside? How clean are the cages?
> 
> to tell you the truth, babies don't die unless they don't get enough food from the parents or they get cold.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but if you believe that they are born with a natural immunity to all bacteria and parasites then you, or whoever you are listening to is delusional. Your oldest bird is 2 years old. Give it time.

Yes, pigeons have survived in the wild for centuries without antibiotics. And they get sick and die too. The average life span for most feral pigeons is like 3 to 5 years old. Why do you suppose they all die so young if they are born with that natural immunity that you speak of?

I agree that giving antibiotics needlessly is foolish, but you have to learn the difference between needlessly, and actually needing them. Do you have other pets? And if so, do you take them to a vet for shots, to avoid disease, or for pills for preventing heartworm? Or do you believe that they too are born with a natural immunity to all that is bad? Do you ever get sick? Do you actually believe that pigeons are stronger than all other animals and people?
I guess you haven't read those links that were posted. You really should. If you are not willing to listen or to read articles that are very informational, then you are being closed minded. One day you will need that info, or some common med for a common illness, and you will be caught unprepared. That's really too bad for your birds. 

You said that a couple of your birds died of heart attacks. You can't know that to be true. That's what people like to say when there is no explanation for their birds death. It is seldom the case. The bird is usually sick and it went unnoticed, til he died suddenly. But it is usually disease........not heart attack. The more you read up and learn about these things, you will learn to recognize illness and will know how to treat it when it occurs. If you choose to refuse to learn from very knowledgeable vets and pigeon keepers from around the world, who write those articles, then that is up to you. But when we on here are trying to help a poster who is coming on asking for help because his birds are dying, then please refrain from trying to convince that poster that the experienced people on here are wrong, and that his birds do not need medicines. I agree that keeping a clean loft as you do with good feed and water and exercise is very important. I'm not saying you are wrong about that. But that isn't the answer to everything out there that a pigeon can come down with. So please don't do that, because I'm sorry, but you are very ill informed. That won't help the poster.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> I'm sorry, but if you believe that they are born with a natural immunity to all bacteria and parasites then you, or whoever you are listening to is delusional. Your oldest bird is 2 years old. Give it time.
> 
> Yes, pigeons have survived in the wild for centuries without antibiotics. And they get sick and die too. The average life span for most feral pigeons is like 3 to 5 years old. Why do you suppose they all die so young if they are born with that natural immunity that you speak of?
> 
> ...


Jay, here is my answer: a Bird Vet told me that pigeons are born with a natural immunity .... and i am CERTAIN my Bird Vet is NOT Delusional. Also my breeder has 44 years of taking care of homers, he agrees with my vet.

1. you said "I'm sorry, but if you believe that they are born with a natural immunity to all bacteria and parasites then you, or whoever you are listening to is delusional."

*************
2. Two of my babies died, within 2 weeks of hatching....they simply rolled over on their back and died....the vet guessed it was a from heart attacks....and i believe her, and i won't go into why i believe it's true, i'll just say its not from natural causes.

3. People coming and asking for help....well, i know you believe giving antibotics without a vet's diagnosis works for you....that's fine for you; however, i do not think or act that way.....i know my doves better than most know their doves, because i live with them in their environment 24/7....they have their place, and i too have mine, but i watch them 24/7...it's not like they are outside in a loft by their lonesome and you check on them once a day.....that's not how i take care of mine...i know their habits, i know their personalities, i know what they like to eat and each one has their special trait, how they fly, how they eat, if they like more water than others, if they like to sleep more than others....i even know exactly when they will lay an egg, because i know when they mate and have noted on their calendar how long it takes for each hen to produce an egg, and how long it takes for that egg to hatch...it's a science and i have it down pat.

One of my hens was an hour late on dropping her second egg....i got very worried, afraid she was egg bound.....so i turned her upside down and dropped olive oil on her vent....and left, for fear she was holding back because i was watching and waiting...when i returned, she dropped the egg, but could not lay down.....i called my breeder...he was amazed that i knew exactly when this hen would drop her second egg....it took this hen, 3 weeks to fly, i gave her large doses of calcium and D3...softgels, that i pricked with a needle and squeezed the liquid calcium with DC in her beak twice a day....so, i am guessing you do NOT know the habits of your pigeons like i know mine....i post my experiences for others to see there is another way to raise pigeons naturally, than first turning to antibotics....that is the last resort......honestly prevention is worth more than 10 pounds of cure....i am in prevention mode 24/7.

Therefore, i request you understand my point of view, and i will respect yours.....honestly, i think new pigeon/homer dove owners need both sides and let them choose how they will raise their doves!

thanks for your response...btw, yes, i've had 2 golden retrivers, both were young month old puppies when i got them.....both lived to be 14 years old and died when they could not walk any longer....both were disease free because i took good carre of them.....and yes, they got all the shots they needed...in my town, you have to have your pet registered with the city with current shot records for rabies......those yearly vet visits proved my dogs were healthy and happy...again, they lived outside, i have a covered patio, 24 foot long, carpeted, both dogs lived on my patio, and were free to roam my 1/2 acre....they both loved to play ball with my son and daughter....very smart animals...again giving them the freedom they needed to enjoy their life is my way of taking care of my pets! Never had doves til 2010....i am enjoying them daily i doubt they will ever NOT live inside with me!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

2 week old babies do not have heart attacks.


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## benjemon (Mar 28, 2014)

LeeLu said:


> honestly, i think new pigeon/homer dove owners need both sides and let them choose how they will raise their doves!


Yes, thank you. The smart man learns from his mistakes. The wise man learns from others' mistakes. One need only decide what is a mistake and what is intended.


I'm curious on your take on apple cider vinegar. 
Do you use any deworming agents/supplements?
I assume you give the birds calcium and Vit D3 because you keep them indoors, or do you have a different reason for suspecting their diet/sun exposure was deficient?


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

LA_BOY said:


> I had some sort of the same incident occur to me as well, my first couple had there 2 eggs than my second couple laid there's. Only one egg of both of my pairs hatched but my first couple started fighting and would trample on the young one so after it occurred more than twice I took the hen out. The other pair was doing fine and my grandma called and I asked her how we're the young ones she said the first young one died and the seconds pair young one is pretty big already. One question cause since this was my first time having young ones, did the first young one die because he didn't have the hen??


If you took the hen out when the young was earlier than one week old, it probably froze to death. A cock bird won't usually sit the nest at night. You can remove the hen after the young are feathered out, and the cock will finish raising them, but it has been my experience that they aren't as healthy as if you leave her in until she stops feeding them.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

benjemon said:


> Yes, thank you. The smart man learns from his mistakes. The wise man learns from others' mistakes. One need only decide what is a mistake and what is intended.
> 
> 
> I'm curious on your take on apple cider vinegar.
> ...


***********
thanks for your response....you seem to understand my point of view raising my homers as naturally as possible...

apple cider vinegar is good stuff....i would have no problem using this, an all natural remedy....i watch their droppings....the only time they are really deep green and runny is when i give them too much saffron/sunflower seeds, as a treat----they love'm.

Deworming ....i use chopped garlic in their feed twice a day...i get it at the dollar store, it's cheap....my doves are very healthy....white, white feathers, deep red feet, and almost white beaks.....i handle them alot, so i know if they are sick or not; when their feet are too warm or too cold, i take note of what they are doing....usually after they take a bath on cold days, (you think they wouldn't want too but they do,) their feet get really cold then.

Sun deficiency... Yes, i have 2 large bottles of Calcium with D3 softgels, i use by puncturing the softgel with a needle several times and squeezing the contents on their tongue, like hand feeding. When their feathers turn a bit grey under their beak, i know they need more sunlight....i have several floodlights, full spectrum for natural sunlight to help brighten their loft.

outside the doves have sunlight during the afternoon for a short period of time...usually the squeakers sleep in the sand at that time.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> 2 week old babies do not have heart attacks.


right you are Jay3.....however, mine did not die of a heart attack from natural causes.....
like i posted... i know what caused the heart attacks...not gonna discuss that here.


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## [email protected] (Apr 16, 2014)

*asking for help .*

]Im looking for free Bird caged we save baby pigeons and we can't just let them fly around when there heling .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

IF you can't get a cage, maybe you could use a large box. Cut out windows for light and cover them with plastic wrap you tape over the window holes. Use some kind of rack over it to let in light and air. Also some plastic laundry baskets can make good cages if covered with something solid to keep them in and keep them safe.


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## [email protected] (Apr 16, 2014)

*jey3*



Jay3 said:


> IF you can't get a cage, maybe you could use a large box. Cut out windows for light and cover them with plastic wrap you tape over the window holes. Use some kind of rack over it to let in light and air. Also some plastic laundry baskets can make good cages if covered with something solid to keep them in and keep them safe.


Thanks but we have used that, but they been to be in our home as they reciprocate,see the pigeons we take in are on deaths door most of the time.
We are willing to pay something for them.
We live in las Vegas, Clark county,east side.
If any needs to call, us with any information on cages.(702-544-8343)


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## [email protected] (Apr 16, 2014)

*jey3*



Jay3 said:


> IF you can't get a cage, maybe you could use a large box. Cut out windows for light and cover them with plastic wrap you tape over the window holes. Use some kind of rack over it to let in light and air. Also some plastic laundry baskets can make good cages if covered with something solid to keep them in and keep them safe.


Thanks but we have used that, but they been to be in our home as they reciprocate,see the pigeons we take in are on deaths door most of the time.
We are willing to pay something for them.
We live in las Vegas, Clark county,east side.
If any needs to call, us with any information on cages call,(702-544-8343)


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