# Newbie questions



## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Hi All

We "inherited" a pair of (racing) pigeons from my step-daughter last year after they fell out of her palm tree (NZ pigeons have a thing about nesting in palm trees - weird). After raising them both to maturity (the male is about 1-2 months older than the female), we "let them go" - only to have them come back in a few days. Since that time, they've lived outside, and we just feed them twice a day, have fresh water available, make sure the bath water is changed regularly and such.

3 weeks ago we were forced to shift house, and we can't have them "free range" at the new house. Since we are their "flock", and since we figured "better caged with us than with someone else", we've purchased two large parrot cages for them (1 each, since they get niggly with each other: the male is particularly "annoying" at times, and the female needs to be able to get away from him, which in a single cage would have been a non-starter.)

Apart from having to clean up poop fairly regularly (we put a "plank" in each cage so they have a "gobbling platform" to play on, but they poo on it and it - and their feet - get messy quickly), we've hit a major snag: how do we let them bathe now? I can't see any practical way at this point to set up an area outside the cages where they can't fly off, and putting a dish in the cage will not only be a tight fit but will also mean water all over the place - as you-all know how vigorous pigeons are when they bathe.

So I'm looking for suggestions. I've had a hunt about on the web for "pigeon baths" in New Zealand where we live, but can't seem to find anything yet.

A second question is about breeding. Up until now, we had been taking the eggs off the pigeons as we didn't want any more. But now that they are caged, and the threat of cats is greatly diminished, and since they are bored in their cages, I thought letting them have a go at raising a couple of chicks might help pass the time for them. Of course it's been 3 weeks since they last appeared to mate (and even then I'm not convinced that the male actually managed to do the deed - he's pretty clumsy), and I have no idea how long the female is able to keep the sperm in her body, so it may be that the 2 current eggs aren't even fertilised.

Since our 2 pigeons have been largely hand-reared, they haven't had any parental advice or guidance from other pigeons, and they often appear to not know what they are doing. My understanding with the eggs is that the male is supposed to take the "day shift" and the female the "night shift". It's a bit of a drama trying to get the eggs from one cage to another (to say the least), but now that we've got a bit of a method going we're concerned that they are staying off the eggs too long. The male particularly seems to think that 4-5 hours is his lot for a day (and he won't start until after 11am, usually not until 1pm), so the female is doing most of the brooding. We do try to wait 5-10 minutes after each bird gets up off the eggs just in case they are just having a stretch. But since we are concerned about how quickly the eggs are going cold to the touch (by 10 minutes they are definitely cool, esp in the early morning or late evening) we are fairly prompt about moving the eggs to the other cage for the other bird to take over.

Some questions:
- How long can the eggs go "cold" before they become "dead"?
- I "dented" one of the eggs whilst fighting with the male the other day - the membrane appears intact: is this egg still viable? (they still sit on it)
- What's the chance of the eggs even being fertile?
- Is our "help" in shifting the eggs from cage to cage actually a hindrance? That is, should we just leave them in the male's cage all day regardless of how often he feels inclined to sit on them?
- We are just using shredded newspaper for the pigeons to "build" a little nesting arrangement - presumably this won't be good enough if a chick actually hatches: what's the best plan for giving / making them a "fake" nest?

We really enjoy our pigeons - they have such wonderful personalities and are a real hoot sometimes. We are quite sad to have had to cage them, but on balance feel this is the best of a bad situation. Any helpful hints or comments welcome.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Hi All
> 
> We "inherited" a pair of (racing) pigeons from my step-daughter last year after they fell out of her palm tree (NZ pigeons have a thing about nesting in palm trees - weird). After raising them both to maturity (the male is about 1-2 months older than the female), we "let them go" - only to have them come back in a few days. Since that time, they've lived outside, and we just feed them twice a day, have fresh water available, make sure the bath water is changed regularly and such.
> 
> ...


Don't worry/feel bad about caging them. Just let them out to play in your living room each day. Then they can get some exercise. Pigeons and doves do well caged so long as they get some play time. 

You are going to want to invest in some fake eggs.


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Pigeon "pair"*

Sounds like these pigeons are likely brother and sister, from the same parents. If that is the case, they should definitely _not_ be bred with each other. So 2 cages may be the better way to go. You can let them out together but, by caging them separately, it can avoid them going into breeding mode (and it will give the female some rest).

Female pigeons and doves can lay "dud" (unfertilized) eggs. You should not encourage them to lay egg after egg, as it depletes their bodies - but if they lay an occasional egg, it's OK. But you should not breed brother and sister birds because it is inbreeding and not genetically healthy.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks for the info / replies. A few points of clarification in case the information is relevant:
- While the pigeons came out of the same tree, we got them a month apart, and there are at least 2 pairs of pigeons who call that tree "home", maybe 3 pairs
- We have never intentionally "bred" the birds: they just decided off their own bat to mate. Other than the caging arrangement we have now, I don't know how we could have stopped them mating - is there a way to do this when they are free-range?
- How do we stop the female from laying? Since the breeding season started (for our 2, anyway) in late November, Pidgi (the female) has laid a total of 6 eggs: a pair the first time, then 2 singles about 2 weeks later (about a week apart), then the current pair. I think we inadvertently "short-circuited" the 2nd and 3rd layings, as we picked the single egg up after a day or so as they were left in the sun & we didn't want them going bad - especially if one of the birds decided to peck / break them like what happened with the first pair of eggs laid.
- We were advised by the local bird-specialist vet that we should let our pigeons go: so we did it on her advice rather than actually really wanting to, as we were concerned that they wouldn't be able to fend for themselves.
- The male (Big Pigeon - I know, not very original, but we hadn't intended on keeping him long term) was almost fledged when we go him: he fledged about 2 weeks later. We thought he was a she at first, as he squatted down when we pet him. Then one day out of the blue he started pecking us violently, we stopped petting him, and then he started being "interested" in Pidgi, and we figured he was a male
- When we got Pidgi, she was small enough to fit easily into my cupped hands, and she had that problem where the egg sack had that hard shell form around it inside her. We paid for the bird specialist vet to operate on her and take it out. She perked up noticeably within a week after previously being very "sleepy" and wanting lots of cuddles leading up to that point. We waited about 3-4 weeks before getting the surgery done.
- Pidgi was a lot slower to start pecking us than Big Pigeon: in fact until October or so, she would often ride around on my shoulder and gently nibble my ear.
- We can't pick either pigeon up now without resorting to the "throw a small towel over the pigeon first" game. Even if we hold them upside down, they have learned to crane their necks to give our fingers nasty pecks and draw blood. If we put gloves on, they panic wildly.
- While we are definitely "animal people", we didn't really want to have any more pets (our cat died a couple of year's back, and of the 3 wild birds we rescued up until the pigeons arrived, only 1 survived, and she (sparrow) escaped of her own accord, never to be seen again). But when we discovered that the vets were only going to kill the pigeons, that most people consider them pests, and that the one local contact from the Poultry & Bird Society (we could find no dedicated pigeon club) had no interest in our birds, we found ourselves "stuck" with them.

I had a couple of further questions following on from Liz's reply:
- When you say the eggs can go 48 hours (ish), does that include AFTER the incubation has started? We found both eggs quite cold and unattended yesterday morning, but both birds were happy enough to sit on them after a little encouragement.
- How do we check the eggs to see if they are fertile?
- We weren't planning on keeping any chicks: we were going to sell them

Another general question just occurred to me: both birds have been moulting a lot over the last 2 weeks - basically ever since they were caged. The did seem to have started a moult of some sort whilst still free-range, but I am concerned that they are shedding a few too many feathers. Is this possibly to help "line the nest"?

Another: Can pigeons "re-home" to a new location? I've heard that the birds can learn a new territory after about 3-4 months. Is this right? I was surprised that our 2 didn't head back to where they were born when we released them. Instead, they seemed to live in some trees about 500 metres away from the house.

I realise that our efforts seem clumsy and awkward to those of you who know heaps about pigeons - but I figure that the birds had zero chance of survival until we stepped in (which is true since the area where they fell to the ground is patrolled by a very aggressive bird-eating cat, and my step-daughter left the pigeons on the ground for a few hours to see if the parents would "collect" them - they didn't make an appearance), and Pidgi most certainly would have died without the op, and we've invested many, many hours caring for them the best we know and spending money we didn't have spare on Pidgi's op, a vet health check-up, food and cages. The only reason we've even been able to care for them at all is that I'm self-employed and my wife (currently) part-time, but that has meant quite a bit of disruption nevertheless. 

With New Zealand being a small country of only 4 million people, we don't have the same depth of local resources to call on, especially when it comes to birds like pigeons that most people consider pests. The only people we've come across so far that have anything to do with pigeons are those who race them. We found our main contact in that regard to be "cold" in the way he relates to birds and we didn't trust him to give our 2 a good home. If we could find someone who is actually interested in having 2 pigeons as pets, but is able to have them free-range and put some time and effort into them, we would consider giving them away. Until then, imperfect as our efforts are, they will need to stay with us.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think they should be kept together since they are a mated pair. They would be happier that way. Maybe just need a bit larger cage. As far as the eggs, if you keep taking them, and not replacing them with fake eggs, she will soon deplete herself of calcium because she just keeps laying. Change them out with wooden eggs and let them sit on them for the 18 days or however long they will sit them. Whether they are in the same cage or not, she will still be laying the eggs. Can you let them out of the cages for a couple of hours a day for exercise. Maybe inside, or make a small aviary for them. Living in a cage, with no out of the cage time is an awful way to live.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Hi Jay3

Thanks for your thoughts. We will do as you suggest with the fake eggs. We also were concerned about the calcium situation: their bird grit (that crushed shell stuff) does have some calcium. We are loathe to go with supplements as we are leery of trusting "medicine" - we avoid artificial medicines ourselves wherever possible, and feel to treat the pigeons the same way.

We are quite stuck with the exercise situation: our new house is a lot smaller than the last one, with very little yard (in fact no back yard per se, and only a small exposed front one). There is nowhere inside for them to be safely let out for "play" - the house feels more like a cramped submarine than a house. lol. The cages are quite big 1.35m x 45cm x 75cm each. There is no room for an aviary, and we don't have the time really to be having to clean that out regularly even if there was room.

We aren't happy about the pigeons being caged - more unhappy than having to cough up $400 on 2 cages in the midst of shifting house and all that entails. But they are with family (us) and each other, and we have the cages almost butting up to each other (they won't touch due to the stands / trays that protrude out 1-2cm all around).

Ideally, we are looking to eventually own a house with a little bit of land and some trees so that we can let the pigeons go free-range again. But we have no idea how far away that possibility is, nor even if we will get to that point: housing is VERY expensive in New Zealand ($400K + for a passable house with a little land in a reasonable area, near the edge of the city), which puts us $370k away from having enough money...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well it's obvious that you really care about the birds. And that you are doing the best you can for them. I know it isn't always easy. Getting out really is kind of important for their well being. I can hear ya about the expenses you have had. I have a house pigeon who can't go into the loft as she is too handicapped. She loves to fly though, and we just cover things and let her out for much of the time. Of course, she does have a few perches where she mostly spends her time, except for an occasional fly around the house. So poops aren't much of a problem. I had a pair that I wanted to mate up, and I would put down a plastic on the bathroom floor, and set up a bath for them in the middle of the plastic on the floor. That way they could spend time together out of cage and bathe together. Not hard to do, and they loved it. A small room like that is better than nothing. Think about it.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Thanks for the info / replies. A few points of clarification in case the information is relevant:
> - While the pigeons came out of the same tree, we got them a month apart, and there are at least 2 pairs of pigeons who call that tree "home", maybe 3 pairs
> - We have never intentionally "bred" the birds: they just decided off their own bat to mate. Other than the caging arrangement we have now, I don't know how we could have stopped them mating - is there a way to do this when they are free-range?
> *Just take the eggs and give them wooden or plastic ones to sit on. Sometimes similarly sized marbles or rocks work, but warm these in your pocket before putting them under the bird to make them more convincing. Let them sit on these till they get bored of them.*
> ...


Well, hopefully this is helpful


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Hi Jay3
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts. We will do as you suggest with the fake eggs. We also were concerned about the calcium situation: their bird grit (that crushed shell stuff) does have some calcium. We are loathe to go with supplements as we are leery of trusting "medicine" - we avoid artificial medicines ourselves wherever possible, and feel to treat the pigeons the same way.
> *make absolutely sure that there is D3 in her food mix or it won't make a difference how much calcium you give her. (Without D3 calcium can't be absorbed by the body.)*
> ...


It would be more ideal to make a pigeon room or aviary like Jay3 said.  You don't have enough birds for them to free-range safely (easy pickings for predators.) And there is the likelihood that they will go back to their birthplace.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I think you can go two ways here.

1) IF you keep them in the cages....then, as others have said...it is an absolute MUST that they get out-of-cage time every day, for a few hours.

2) Build an enclosure and let them cohabitate it...and keep removing the eggs.

Garage ? Carport ? Lots of folks convert these to Pigeon enclosures.

People are really pretty unanimous that these Pigeons cannot be kept caged, whether separated or together...for 24/7. So, while I agree you guys have been wonderful and obviously care a great deal for your pals....you have to try to work out something better than caging them all the time.

Welcome to the Forum, BTW.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks to all for comments and suggestions. It sounds a bit like we may have to bite the bullet and find a new home for our 2 feathered friends, as we just don't have the time to spend looking after them to the degree they appear to need whilst caged.  A hard call, but I'm hearing that if they don't get out every day for exercise that they will be in a bad way after a while, and we can't have that.

Thanks to Liz especially for taking the time to respond after such a long day and the late hour - I appreciate that.

We did manage to get Pidgi out for 45 mins or so this afternoon - she got a quick bath, toured around most of the new house, sat on my head for a couple of mins preening (the good old "wearing my pigeon hat" routine...), but seemed in a bit of a hurry to get back to her cage. We would have let her stay out longer, but she went to the back door where she can see the cages and began trying to climb thru the glass!

Interestingly they did actually fare rather well while they were outside "free range". Their stint in the big trees only lasted 5 days, and from then on they camped on the spouting of the roof over the back door, or wandered over the roof just doing what pigeons do, or rummaged in the lawn / gardens as was their wont. Some days they would fly around a lot, other days not at all.

There is a "wild" flock of pigeons (approx 20-30) that nest in that same group of big trees I mentioned - largely the grey & black variety like ours, but with a few white ones and a couple of the brown & white ones - but our two were never welcomed into that flock (even though that flock would orbit almost directly over our old house once or twice a week), but also never hassled by them. In fact, some of the juveniles from that flock would come to visit our two from time to time: there were 3 different ones, that we named 3rd, 4th and 5th pigeon (with ours being 1 & 2, so to speak). Big Pigeon eventually got annoyed with the males hanging around (3rd & 5th pigeons were males, 4th was a female very like Pidgi), and kept chasing them away. The visits weren't regular, but it was fun watching our two interact with the "neighbours". 

There were 2 cats in the area that used to harass our pigeons every now and again, usually between 9 & 11pm. There was only one way up onto our roof for the cat, which meant they couldn't sneak up on the birds. When we heard the sudden flapping of wings in the night, we knew the pigeons had received a "visit". Our 2 are surprisingly good night navigators - I watched them once easily navigate from our old house back to the big trees after a fright - I could barely make them out. But they were always back next day, Big Pigeon gobbling outside our bedroom window to remind us it was breakfast time.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Thanks to all for comments and suggestions. It sounds a bit like we may have to bite the bullet and find a new home for our 2 feathered friends, as we just don't have the time to spend looking after them to the degree they appear to need whilst caged.  A hard call, but I'm hearing that if they don't get out every day for exercise that they will be in a bad way after a while, and we can't have that.
> 
> Thanks to Liz especially for taking the time to respond after such a long day and the late hour - I appreciate that.
> 
> ...


Is it feasible to build something like this?
http://www.petforums.co.uk/bird-photo-galleries/17445-galahs-our-aviary.html#post332922










You would just need a screening material and some wood and something for the bottom. It wouldn't have to be this fancy. And then they'd have lots of room and not have to get out all the time. OH, and check out the loft part of this site. there are lots of housing possibilities for your little guys.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Here are some pics of our pigeons:
Big Pigeon's 1s day with us (Feb 2011):








Pidgi's 1st day with us (March 2011):








Big Pigeon 3 week's ago:








I only seem to be able to attach 3 pics, so I can't show Pidgi now... ?


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion Liz. Unfortunately we are renting, so we're in quite a bad position.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion Liz. Unfortunately we are renting, so we're in quite a bad position.


That one I posted is movable. A version might be made that is even more so.  Oh, and there are outdoor portable lofts too. But you have to make them very rodent, cat, and snake-proof. It's amazing what critters can get into.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Here are some pics of our pigeons:
> 
> 
> I only seem to be able to attach 3 pics, so I can't show Pidgi now... ?


only 3 pics per response. to add more to the thread, just put them in a new response post.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Libis said:


> That one I posted is movable. A version might be made that is even more so.  Oh, and there are outdoor portable lofts too. But you have to make them very rodent, cat, and snake-proof. It's amazing what critters can get into.


Yes, I saw the moveable aspect of the aviary - a very good concept. I wasn't kidding earlier when I said this house is small - I think it was designed for hobbits. There is literally no room inside, and our landlord would absolutely not go for the birds being inside, not even in the cages.

As I say, we are in quite a bind, looking more and more like having to say goodbye to BP & Pidgi.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Oh, cool. Here's Pidgi 3 week's ago (note her cute little curled feather on her neck):


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Yes, I saw the moveable aspect of the aviary - a very good concept. I wasn't kidding earlier when I said this house is small - I think it was designed for hobbits. There is literally no room inside, and our landlord would absolutely not go for the birds being inside, not even in the cages.
> 
> As I say, we are in quite a bind, looking more and more like having to say goodbye to BP & Pidgi.


But what about the yard and garage?

Also, if you have to rehome, I think we've got a couple members here who are in your country. Maybe we'll get lucky and find someone nicer than those you've met?


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Yes, we've had a good scout about the property to see what we can make work: nothing seems to fit. The carport is in front of the garage, so we can't use that. We really need to use the garage for the car & storage, and it's only just big enough for that. As I say, the place was designed for hobbits. There IS an area between the back of the garage and the side fence which is a maybe. But on top of all this, the house we're living in is on the market, and until we know whether we are staying on as tenants (should know by the end of March), setting up an aviary, then having to pull it down and shift it is just a bridge too far at the moment, not to mention just not enough free cash to go around right now.

How might I find out if there are members in New Zealand I could contact? As you've rightly gathered, we want our 2 feathered friends (and they are very much part of the family) to go to a HOME, not to a "holding facility".

I miss that they can't fly about at will at the moment, and feel sad for them. But at least they still have us as a familiar thing in their lives. Hopefully that is a good thing for them in the short term...


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Yes, we've had a good scout about the property to see what we can make work: nothing seems to fit. The carport is in front of the garage, so we can't use that. We really need to use the garage for the car & storage, and it's only just big enough for that. As I say, the place was designed for hobbits. There IS an area between the back of the garage and the side fence which is a maybe. But on top of all this, the house we're living in is on the market, and until we know whether we are staying on as tenants (should know by the end of March), setting up an aviary, then having to pull it down and shift it is just a bridge too far at the moment, not to mention just not enough free cash to go around right now.
> 
> How might I find out if there are members in New Zealand I could contact? As you've rightly gathered, we want our 2 feathered friends (and they are very much part of the family) to go to a HOME, not to a "holding facility".
> 
> I miss that they can't fly about at will at the moment, and feel sad for them. But at least they still have us as a familiar thing in their lives. Hopefully that is a good thing for them in the short term...


Found a couple of members. Will look out for more. These are links to their pages. From there, you can hit "send message" and type up whatever you'd like (not sure how much you've explored the forum.)
NZ Pigeon:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=26230

nzpouter:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=25365


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry. I am in the South Island and also do not have room.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Sorry. I am in the South Island and also do not have room.


Do we know anybody else? I really thought I had seen more than two people on here over time from New Zealand, but I can't find them.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

thepigeonkey... he my flatmate though and we are up to our necks in projects. constantly building more lofts to make room. I cannot think of any others.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks again Liz - and Evan. I've sent a PM to "nzpouter".


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Hi there, we're in the south island too.... anyway, with a few alteration to your cages, it's not hard to keep indoor cages and your birds clean. 

Make your perches small with a 10cm round platform they can stand and display but not enough for them to soil it. Bath can be easily given with a large dog bowl on the bottom of the cage and put the cage outside while they're having it, only take them 5 min max every 2-3 days, throw away the dirty water and bring the cage back in. 

For outdoor aviary/ flight, is there a garden shed on the property? wire the front/ fly screen, sawdust on the floor, done.


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## IslandBoy77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks again to everyone who's given helpful hints, suggestions and information. We are going to have a go in the short term of keeping the pigeons: we really don't want to part with them yet. Pidgi gave up on the eggs, and Big Pigeon broke one (we dont know what the circumstances were surrounding that, but somehow he managed to carry one from the floor of his cage to the plank - approx 1m up - and we found it broken there). So we ditched the remaining egg, and they've gone back into courtship mode. Pidgi just can't fathom why she cant get thru the bars on the cage! So, a question: I've purchased 2 fake pigeon eggs - how often do I put those in for her to sit on? How soon after losing the last eggs should we put them in? Its been 2 days now: I don't want her to lose more calcium making eggs, but don't want to needlessly have the eggs in that cage. Whats the best plan? Also, I can't find that D3 supplement mentioned - the local Pet store we deal with had never heard of it. I've contacted the "Beak and Claw" specialist vet to see if she's heard of it or can recommend similar. Is it possible that we're just very backwards about this stuff in New Zealand?

Thanks again all - really appreciate your help.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Thanks again to everyone who's given helpful hints, suggestions and information. We are going to have a go in the short term of keeping the pigeons: we really don't want to part with them yet. Pidgi gave up on the eggs, and Big Pigeon broke one (we dont know what the circumstances were surrounding that, but somehow he managed to carry one from the floor of his cage to the plank - approx 1m up - and we found it broken there). So we ditched the remaining egg, and they've gone back into courtship mode. Pidgi just can't fathom why she cant get thru the bars on the cage! So, a question: I've purchased 2 fake pigeon eggs - how often do I put those in for her to sit on? How soon after losing the last eggs should we put them in? Its been 2 days now: I don't want her to lose more calcium making eggs, but don't want to needlessly have the eggs in that cage. Whats the best plan? Also, I can't find that D3 supplement mentioned - the local Pet store we deal with had never heard of it. I've contacted the "Beak and Claw" specialist vet to see if she's heard of it or can recommend similar. Is it possible that we're just very backwards about this stuff in New Zealand?
> 
> Thanks again all - really appreciate your help.


Wait for her to lay. Steal each egg right away and replace with the fake. Do whatever you want with the egg--some people even eat them. We give the eggs to the cats and dog--makes their coats shiny. 

Look in their food mix--it might already have D3 in it. otherwise, maybe you can buy from a parrot supplier online? There's gotta be some people in your country who keep indoor parrots, right? (The parrots would need the same thing to absorb calcium.)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

IslandBoy77 said:


> Thanks again to everyone who's given helpful hints, suggestions and information. We are going to have a go in the short term of keeping the pigeons: we really don't want to part with them yet. Pidgi gave up on the eggs, and Big Pigeon broke one (we dont know what the circumstances were surrounding that, but somehow he managed to carry one from the floor of his cage to the plank - approx 1m up - and we found it broken there). So we ditched the remaining egg, and they've gone back into courtship mode. * Pidgi just can't fathom why she cant get thru the bars on the cage! *So, a question: I've purchased 2 fake pigeon eggs - how often do I put those in for her to sit on? How soon after losing the last eggs should we put them in? Its been 2 days now: I don't want her to lose more calcium making eggs, but don't want to needlessly have the eggs in that cage. Whats the best plan? Also, I can't find that D3 supplement mentioned - the local Pet store we deal with had never heard of it. I've contacted the "Beak and Claw" specialist vet to see if she's heard of it or can recommend similar. Is it possible that we're just very backwards about this stuff in New Zealand?
> 
> Thanks again all - really appreciate your help.



Are you still keeping them in separate cages? They see themselves as a mated pair. It isn't going to work this way. They should be together in the same enclosure. It isn't going to work with you putting the eggs back and forth from cage to cage. It's actually mean to cage them in separate cages where they can see each other but not get together. 

You don't put the fake eggs in to stop them from having eggs. She will know that she didn't lay them. You change them out for the real eggs _after_ she has them. This way they will think they are the same ones, and sit on them for the 18 days or so to try to hatch them. If you were to just take their eggs away, of course they would just have more right away.
As far as where to buy the D3, there must be pigeon supply places that you can order from online.


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

Search for dawes seed and grain in chch, they carry some suplements for pigeons.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I've used these guys once, They were good, and seemed a little cheaper than dawes.

http://www.seedandfeed.co.nz/


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