# Pigeon With Beak Stuck Open



## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

Looking for a helping hand. I'm caring for a Feral Pigeon that I treated with Ronidazole for trichomoniasis. Trich is gone, but beak is still stuck open. He can't eat, I'm hand feeding the bird. Treated with baytril, Ronidazole. Yellow masses in mouth have disappeared, bad smell gone, protruding vent now normal and not stained, feather health normal, very strong, gained 70gr weight. Beak will not move to the closed position. Tries to eat, but despite the depth and size of seed, he can't swallow the seed. Any suggestions appreciated. I hate defeat.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Wow, I'm stumped on this one -- can you manually close the beak? If so, what happens?

I'm wondering if there is a mechanical problem (perhaps the trich eroded the beak so it is actually locking open?) If not, perhaps it is neurological/neuromuscular. 

I hope someone else comes along to weigh in on this matter. 

Poor fella!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh the poor thing. Is the bird getting calcium and vitamins? Don't know, but it can affect the muscles. Maybe he/she just needs these things and a bit of time. How long has he been this way? 
Is the beak actually stuck open, or has it been reshaped by the canker? Can you post a picture?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*How long have you been treating the bird for canker?*


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## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanx for the replies. The beak is constantly open, though not rigid. I can easily close the beak with my fingers, and when released, it opens back up.
I started out with copper sulfate and Baytril for 10 days. After these 10 days the foul smell and cheesy masses in his mouth disappeared but the beak remained open. I then followed up with a 10 day course of 4-in-1 with Ronidazole. He is hand feed 1 part exact formula, 2 parts coarsely ground pigeon feed, with calcium, vitamin C, and an avian gut micro flora product with vitamin b. I will try and get a picture posted later today.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

So you didn't give canker medication besides the 4 in 1? You may be dealing with a resistant strain of canker and you need a 10 day course of metronidazole.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Charis said:


> So you didn't give canker medication besides the 4 in 1? You may be dealing with a resistant strain of canker and you need a 10 day course of metronidazole.


*This, because the canker may still be lingering and effecting the areas of the beak that allow closure.*


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## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi Charis,
I do have metronidazole, but I'm unsure as to whether that should be my next course of action. You are possibly right. We don't usually use metronidazole here in Hawaii because the strain of Canker is resistant to metronidazole. Most of us (my rehab friends and contacts) use Ronidazole or carnidazole (spatrix). But before I tried a different Canker med, I thought I would put this out there for others to comment on. I've literally treated hundreds of doves and pigeons over the last 5 years and this is my first experience with the "open Beak".


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks for explaining about the resistance to Metronidazole in Hawaii, John -- a lot of us probably didn't know that. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with treating canker!

Copper sulfate is also an anti-canker treatment, right? -- so he's had that, and the ronidazole. 

I'm wondering if perhaps there's a fungal issue that's affecting the beak, which can be a real problem when formula feeding -- and Baytril is notorious for encouraging yeast growth. It may be that something more aggressive than a probiotic is needed to treat that. 

Of course, the problem may still be the trich, if it isn't completely eradicated.


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## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh, I some how missed MiniMonkey's last response. Thanx so much for your input.

My experience in treating canker comes from following my mentor in Avian Rehab; Ann Viets. She is a remarkable person not at all shy with sharing her knowledge. She and a Local Vet discovered a few years back that most of Hawaii had a strain of Canker that was resistant to Metronidozole. 

Copper Sulfate is an anti Canker Product, but not an affective cure. If I have a dove or Pigeon that I feel has other problems, like a bacterial infection or Giardia, I will treat with antibiotics and coppersulfate. Then I follow up with Ronidazole after the 10 day coppersulfate/baytril. 

You did bring something to my attention though. Perhaps a fungus? Systemic? What do you think? Try a different Canker med, or medicate with Nystatin?

I'm still learning and any input is appreciated. 

I have just taken a picture of the bird, I'll re post with the pic. I have to figure out how to do that though, add a picture.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi John,

Not sure about the fungus causing the mouth to stay open, though I've never seen Aspergillus, only regular yeast infection. When a bird is very ill with a yeast infection, it may open its beak wide due to respiratory distress, in which case you'd notice the breathing difficulties and mucous around the sinuses, eyes, mouth and white plaques all through the mouth. If you see any of this treat with nystatin (though its not bad idea to treat anyway, as a precaution)

Its hard to really say what's causing this. It makes sense that perhaps its caused by some sort of internal growth in the area of muscle that shuts the jaw. And because you've been treating for canker, then this growth is most likely to be lingering canker.


PS. I've personally had some pretty awful cases of canker and pox together this year that caused the sick pigeon's mouth to be forced wide open. But amazingly , they did heal up and their beaks close normally now.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Aspergillus can get really nasty -- can cause tissue and CNS damage if it is severe enough. 

Nystatin is good for garden variety candida infections, but for something like Aspergillus, you'd probably need a systemic med like Ketoconazole or Fluconazole. 

You can definitely use Nystatin in addition to whatever else you are using -- it isn't absorbed into the system, and is a good addition to antibiotics -- 

This sounds like a neuromuscular problem, most likely -- 

I'm assuming there are no signs of respiratory distress?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Sending healing thoughts your way... hopefully, things will work out. I'm no expert but I'm definitely rooting for the pigeon's recovery.

Thank you for all you have done for the bird. Good luck and do update!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Earlier this year,our member Louise, has a pigeon, that had her beak stuck open too. In her case, it turned out to be a severe respiratory infection. The worst the vet said he had ever seen.
Thank you for the reminder that canker strains vary from region to region and resistance to medications is a very real problem.
I hope your pigeon is doing better.


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## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

*Stuck Beak*

Thanx for the responses. The response alerts have been going straight to spam. 

Charis, you mentioned a condition similar to my pigeon that was related to respiratory infection. I did notice this little soul "rattling" a little yesterday when I picked him up and held him tight to hand feed him. When I'm not holding tight and close, no rattle in his breathing. If indeed he does have an infection bad enough to cause his beak to remain open, what options should I exercise?? I started out with baytril & copper sulfate. Hmmmm. That was only 10 days though. I think I have the answer. Not a long enough course of baytril. I'm still in my learning phase and I hate to loose. 

I've been very busy with jury duty and will follow up with a new thread with a picture of the little soul for all of you to study. I noticed yesterday brownish plaques around the rim of the inside of the birds mouth (lower mandible).


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

John...the only way to know for sure what the bacteria is sensitive to, is to have a culture done. Many bacteria have become resistant to baytril too. 
You can put your ear on his back, between the wing blades and should be able to hear rattling.


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