# How closely related are mouring doves and rock doves?



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

How closely related are pigeons/rock doves to mourning doves?
Though they have the same shape, the mourning doves are smaller, all seem to be brown, have a totally different call, and are not apt to gather in large numbers.

When pigeons and mouring doves are put together- how do they react to one another?
Indifference? Agression? Or do they treat each other as kindred doves?
Can they interbreed? 

regards

TCS


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi TCS, 


Well, the Morning Doves here in the Southern Mojave are rather Grey colored with some White...


But as far as I know, it is possible for Morning Doves and Rock Doves ( Pigeons) to form a Matrimonial bond, mate, build a nest, lay and incubate their Eggs, and raise Babys together which would then be half-and-half Birds.


I imagine that their in effect Cultural differences in the wild/feral worlds, and also their endemic differences in some way where in wild feral or domestic situations, would tend to preclude this sort of arrangement from occuring.

If raised together from Babys, even in a group of several of each, and if suited to eachother temprementally with no occasions of aggression from the Pigeon/Rock Dove, I imagine it is possible for these two respective kinds of Birds to decide to elect eachother for their Mate and for Baby-making passtimes. But it could also go badly of course and one would have to watch carefully for any signs of contention or less than civil comforts.


As far as I have seen, the Morning Doves tend to give the Rock Doves a fairly wide berth usually, in their situations of mutual forraging or grazing, but sometimes some Doves will be fairly close to the Pigeons also.

I have had adult Doves here who I have convelesed from their injurys or ilnesses, in their free fly time, become gentle friends with younger pigeons who were also in free fly time in here also.

They would hang out inches apart on high perches and seemed to like eachother and to find pleasure in eachother's company.

Similarly, in here anyway, youngish flying Pigeons and Doves will often form friendships and enjoy eachother's close presence in eating and perching or roosting at night.

But usually, when puberty is entered or is mid-way, the Pigeon, especially if male, will begin to intimidate the Doves or peck at them or chase them.

Not always, but 'usually', so far as I have seen.

Likely young sub-adult Pigeon Hens are less likely to do this, but I have certainly seen them do it also, or be just as 'fierce' and aggressive as any male.

One of the most gracious and friendly-to-Doves Pigeons I recall, was almost certainly a Male, and as a young adult even, he was accepted by the various Wild Doves here at the time, and he accepted them, so there were never any contentions or less than gracious social comforts.

A gracious Pigeon will be allowed to graze or forrage closely amid a group of Morning Doves.

As Babys or youngsters, both get along nicely together and will nestle together, preen eachother and sleep snug against eachother, but once puberty is arrived, it seems the Pigeon is more likely to peck at Doves and or adult Pigeons are likely to do so also, even to where the Dove can be injured or killed if cornered or if too young to get away.

So, one must be careful not to confine these two kinds of Doves together, unless one is somehow entirely sure of the disposition and potentials of the particular individual Pigeons/Rock Doves, for them to be kind or accepting of the Morning Doves...and, for there to be plenty of room for all, so no one can ever get 'cornered' or exhausted if chased in too small a confine, or where all spaces are claimed...one should have plenty of space or them, and a very low population for that space.


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A dove and a pigeon will breed But the off spring should be unable to breed back. Sterile for the most part. So reproduction past the point will not continue.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi re lee, 



Huh...

Like 'Mules' then...

Interesting...


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi Phil
Thank you for the very detailed and fascinating answer to my question.
It seems when many animals reach maturity, they resort to a form of self imposed segregation, associating only with others of thier own species, or subspecies. I figured the Morning doves and rock doves were close enough genetically to overcome self imposed segregation, and in fact interact with one another...

My family has land in the Berkshire mountains in western Massachusetts, in an area where there are no rock doves in sight, but Morning doves are numerous- Well, their numbers are small- perhaps a group of 4 or so-I have never seen flock of morning doves the size of a rock dove flock.......The morning doves I have seen in Massachusetts all seem to be brown in color...
They are beautiful birds, I love the call they make- But goodness, they are very skitish.
If they are eating from the feeder outside, and see movement through the window inside the house, they'll fly away.....
Pigeons/rock doves in contrast are fearless in comparison- They will boldly walk up to a person, and eat from ther hand....A friend was eating a hamburger, and a pigeon landed on the burger!
At rush hour in downtown Boston when thousands of people are walking to work, the pigeons walking about seem not the least bit bothered by the sea of human beings...Such a scene of so many people would no doubt give a morning dove a heart attack......

I always thought they were called 'mourning' doves- I guess its 'morning' dove. Do thier nesting techniques differ greatly from the rock doves? A friend told me morning doves are ground birds, and may have thier nests on the ground-is this true?
Interesting morning doves and rock doves can interbreed- there is a common genetic link there....
Does anyone here have a picture handy of a morning dove/rock dove hybrid?

Thanks

Tarn Stephanos


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is a small comparrison.

http://www.white-dove-releases.com/faq.htm


Here is some information on mourning doves:

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/BOW/MOUDOV/


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TitanicWreck said:


> *I always thought they were called 'mourning' doves*- I guess its 'morning' dove.
> 
> Do thier nesting techniques differ greatly from the rock doves? A friend told me morning doves are ground birds, and may have thier nests on the ground-is this true?
> Interesting morning doves and rock doves can interbreed- there is a common genetic link there....
> ...


Hi Tarn,
You were correct, the spelling *is* 'Mourning'.

I have common pigeons, Mourning, WhiteWinged & Inca doves that pretty much live in our backyard & have yet to see a Mourning dove take a liking to a common pigeon or vice versa. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

I've also read, with regard to domestic situations, pigeons should not be housed with Doves of any kind, as the pigeons can be a bit too aggressive at times.

Cindy


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Here's a link to an interesting website about doves & pigeons. 
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/birds/doves_pigeons/DovePigeonProfile.htm#Social

Cindy


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm not sure about wild mourning doves, but I have had ringneck doves (similar to mourning doves) with my rock doves (pigeons) before and as long as you don't have any bossy or rough birds, it has been fine. I do have one pigeon (my first pigeon, Gonzo) whose first mate was a female ringneck dove. As they got older I did have to separate them because he was too rough for her, and any dove he sees now (this is six years later), he will go immediately to and try to round up into his nest (though he does have a pigeon wife now). So he is the only one that can't be in with any doves. 

And though doves and pigeons are from the same family, they can have babies but those babies can't reproduce. Gonzo and his dove mate had a pair of hybrids, "the Monkeys", and they were beautiful slim birds with dove heads and pigeon bodies and a horrible croaking sound halfway between a pigeon coo and a dove coo, lol. I have a male dove, Ivan, and a female pigeon, Genevieve, who were raised together last fall and who just laid their first eggs, so I'm hoping for more hybrids soon!! They're very rare, apparently. Bottom line is, it should be safe to keep doves with pigeons as long as you know your pigeons well enough to know they won't bully the doves. Especially if they're raised together, or the pigeons have been around doves before.


----------



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Here's a link to an interesting website about doves & pigeons.
> http://animal-world.com/encyclo/birds/doves_pigeons/DovePigeonProfile.htm#Social
> 
> Cindy




Great link, thanks!!
Im near the Bershire mts today, in my family cabin- Outiside the window is a bird feeder, on which FOUR mouring doves are eating...
I could watch them all day long, they are just magnificent...


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

TitanicWreck said:


> How closely related are pigeons/rock doves to mourning doves?
> 
> 
> TCS


Hi TCS, 

To answer your first question...they are very closely related in evolutionary terms. They both belong to the family of birds called Columbidae They are more further removed from species like ostriches


----------



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi TCS,
> 
> To answer your first question...they are very closely related in evolutionary terms. They both belong to the family of birds called Columbidae They are more further removed from species like ostriches




and the amazing thing is scientists tend to agree that birds evolved from dinosaurs- so our beloved pidgies could very well be the decendant of the T-Rex...


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

TitanicWreck said:


> and the amazing thing is scientists tend to agree that birds evolved from dinosaurs- so our beloved pidgies could very well be the decendant of the T-Rex...



Yep....very interesting! To think we might all have living and breathing dinosaurs in our care is really facinating indeed!


----------

