# Calcium gluconate question



## Al X West (Sep 10, 2012)

Tried to post this on pigeon nutrition but could not.

Does anyone here use calcium gluconate to provide supplemental calcium to breeding hens?

I provide Ca in several forms i.e. pellets daily and vitamins-minerals twice a week. I noticed a soft shelled egg today and thought I might provide even more Ca.

I have some 23% Calcium Gluconate solution from Durvet for treatment of milk fever in cattle to be administered intravenously.

A contact with the company resulted in their indicating the product was for cattle to be administered as noted and that they would not comment on its use for pigeons.

My concern here is that the product contains boric acid as a solubilizing agent. I realize boric acid is mildly poisonous in a relative sense but there is no indication on the product as to how much boric acid per unit volume it contains. In addition to this I have no idea what amount is a lethal dose for pigeons per unit weight.

Has anybody been using this as a calcium supplement for their pigeons during breeding season without experiencing any deleterious results on adults, eggs or young? How long have you used it? Has it helped your birds?


Thanks


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have just been using a good quality pigeon grit with oyster shells. I give grit every other day. For some reason this year they attack it when I put it in. All eggs are solid. After a few clear eggs the first round, I am 100% hatch rate. No broken eggs. I would think the calcium in the oyster shells is sufficient. This year I have been religious with the grit


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I have the austrailian pigeon company's calcium syrup. it is calcium(calcium borogluconate) and vitamin D3. I have it on hand in case I get a hen that is egg bound or does not eat enough oystershell. I have not used it as a source for the flock. I have oystershell and have not had to use it on any hens as of yet.. four years plus. so if you want or need to use a calcium suppliment I would get one from a pigeon supply or for avian use.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Like SW, I use a purpose-mixed calcium + D3 supplement for pigeons. It isn't expensive, and can be given individually or for a loft-full.


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## Al X West (Sep 10, 2012)

*Calcium supplement*

Thanks folks for the replies. I failed to mention that I use National red grit on a daily basis and that the thin shelled egg was from the first clutch of a young hen. It could have been the first ever egg.

Not absolutely certain that I need more calcium than I already provide, just thought I might use the bottle of gluconate I had on hand if I could be assured that someone else had used this product successfully..


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Right before breeding season I ALLWAYS gave each hen 500 unit oyster shell tab down the throat for FIVE days you can get this at any wal mart. Then oyster shell grit and mineral grit. Plus IF you use vitimans they often have good dose of calcium. With the oyster shell tabs You help build that level up in your hens. Helps with EGGS plus egg binding And keeps them from going down when they lay from depleted calcium. Used it for years.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

re lee said:


> Right before breeding season I ALLWAYS gave each hen 500 unit oyster shell tab down the throat for FIVE days you can get this at any wal mart. Then oyster shell grit and mineral grit. Plus IF you use vitimans they often have good dose of calcium. With the oyster shell tabs You help build that level up in your hens. Helps with EGGS plus egg binding And keeps them from going down when they lay from depleted calcium. Used it for years.


You mean , you give 500 mg? That's way too much, unless the hen is eggbounded.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Dima said:


> You mean , you give 500 mg? That's way too much, unless the hen is eggbounded.


Oyster shell tab 500 unit Is What I gave AND never had any problems So it is not to much. And Several people I know do the same Osyster shell tab is in the Vitiman section. You might want to research your thoughts As it will not hurt the birds.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Dima said:


> You mean , you give 500 mg? That's way too much, unless the hen is eggbounded.


500 u not 500 mg


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

John_D said:


> 500 u not 500 mg


So how many mg is 500 u of Ca. I cannot find it on the search engine


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Dima said:


> So how many mg is 500 u of Ca. I cannot find it on the search engine


With what I read that would be about TEN to eleven MG


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

re lee said:


> With what I read that would be about TEN to eleven MG


That's a fair dosage


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Al X West said:


> Thanks folks for the replies. I failed to mention that I use National red grit on a daily basis and that the thin shelled egg was from the first clutch of a young hen. It could have been the first ever egg.
> 
> Not absolutely certain that I need more calcium than I already provide, just thought I might use the bottle of gluconate I had on hand if I could be assured that someone else had used this product successfully..


The red grit is great but it is for digestion... Oyster shell crushed for chickens is what I give for calcium in a separate crock, so that they take what they need without having to pick it out of the regular red grit....what Re lee has said is a great measure to do before breeding .


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## Al X West (Sep 10, 2012)

*ug = ?mg*

ug is the abbreviation for micrograms. mg is the abbreviation for milligrams.

In metric measure think of grams as a suffix and attach the prefixes milli and micro . milli represents 1/1000 and micro represents 1/1,000,000.

Therefore there are 1000 ug or micrograms in 1 mg or milligram So ------ 500

ug = 1/2 or 0.5 mg.

I do not know what the recommended daily intake of Ca is for pigeons nor how many teaspoons of red grit a pigeon consumes nor how much of the Ca in it is digestable. However Red Grit claims 19% and 25% min. and max respectively for Ca as a gauranteed analysis. Say for convenience an average of 22%. 

There are 453,592.4 mg in 1 lb. This means at 22% in that 1 lb of red grit there are 99,790 mg of Ca. (99790 mg = 9,979,000 ug).

By some quick and crude measurements I found that 1/2
or 0.5 0Z of red grit = approx 1 tsp. So for arguments sake let us say that a pigeon consumes 1/4 or 0.25 teaspoons of red grit daily. That level of consumption would represent an intake of 779.6mg or 779,600 ug of Ca. If a pigeon would consume 1/10 or 0.1 tsp that would represent an intake of 312mg or 312,000 ug of Ca.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

^^^^^ What he said


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

But seriously, have you had them on any medication regime? Providing grit with oyster shell should be more than enough calcium. Many chemicals/medications bind calcium, so I would be more worried about that instead of how much the ingest. I've never had a soft egg, knock on wood, and all I give is red grit/oyster shell.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

IU international unit/ unit. MCG microgram MG milligram. . There wqill be times A bird get depleted on calcium. Even with oyster shell grit. As you do not know per bird how much they are digesting. Preparing the hens for a breeding season Is a safe measure. One can go years and not have problems BUT then a problem pops up. I have lost a few very good hens before. So prepareing them You are much less to lose that GOOD bird. And yes some people never do anything extra. But even today how many use some kind of vitiman.. Going the extra mile to insure you have less problems Is a good idea. BUT not a must As we do what we do.


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## Al X West (Sep 10, 2012)

*Johnnyks*

IU's for drugs/supplements and are based on the substances potency rather than its weight. This means that 1 IU for a particular supplement probably will not weigh the same as 1 IU for a different supplement. It is more convenient to just work with the weight ( mg or ug) of such substances because 1 mg of any substance weighs the same as 1 mg of any other substance. 

Anyway, I Just wanted to illustrate that there is a lot of calcium in red grit. 312 mg in 1/10 tsp by my calcs. As stated I have no idea how much of it is usable by birds as a mineral. I would hazard a guess that the 500 units or 11 mg in lee's tablets is 100% usable.

I do feed pigeon pellets and grain daily and add supplements to the water 2 - 4 times per week depending on the season. Both the pellets and supplements contain calcium. I have not had another soft egg since and I can not remember one preceding the one that prompted my original question. Going forward, if I get another I will keep a second grit box full of oyster shell in the loft.

Incidentally, I've decided to not use the Gluconate I have since no one has reported using it safely.

Thanks for all the replies.


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