# Aggressive, bullying Pigeon in the coop.



## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

I have a small pigeon coop (kit box style) with 5 white homers. They are just kept as pets and for flying (as I love seeing the white birds flying in the sky around my home).


I am having a big problem with the dominant male bird seriously bullying the other birds to the point he in constantly chasing them from perch to perch, pecking at them and won't let them eat or drink. I have to keep him locked outside the coop most of the day.. which he spends trying to get back into the coop and attacking the birds through the wire mesh!!!


The problem started when he and his mate made a nest of the coop floor when I was away from home. I came back to see them brooding eggs. 

At fist this was not a problem and the pair only claimed the floor space, so I put the feeder the water container on a raised shelf and all has been well for a week.


But now he has claimed the entire coop as his territory. I can't let the bird out to fly now either, as he won't allow them back into the coop, and they are too scared to go back in even if I put him away in a cage.


Do you think he will calm down? Or is there any chance I can move the nest with the eggs into a separate cage (with the him and his mate in there). I wanted to do this but am worried they will abandon the eggs.

Thank you.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We have a pair who i have to separate periodically. Whenever Buzzy lays an egg, i have to remove her overly pushy mate or she will try to hurt him badly. I took him out for five days last week...every day, i tried to put him back. But he would annoy her with such aggressive pursuit that i whad to keep removing him. She has fake eggs. Last night, i gave him another chance to be with her. He made a lot of noise but let her eat. She gave him the beak and they were back to being best friends again so i let him stay. I keep an extra cage nearby for acting up birds.
If you have five birds one must not be paired. Am wondering if that is a problem?


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## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

I don't know if this makes sense or doable, but if the nest is on the ground, maybe you could put some sort of rigid and flat surface under it, and then when at least one of the couple is on it, sitting on the eggs, just lift the whole thing and put it in a better place of your choosing. This way, they won't be separated from the nest and might continue to recognize it as their own. I have no idea if this works, though.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You never let them nest on the floor. Especially when it is such a dominant male. Friend Johns idea may work. I have done it that way, when moving a nest from a cage to a nest box and it worked fine, but it depends on the birds. Lock them in the nest box for a few days. If they do abandon the eggs, then you tried. You cannot let them make life hell for everyone else. Your birds will eventually take off as they will hate their home. 
They are more important than the eggs at this point. If he continues to bully them, then remove him and his mate from the loft for a few weeks and keep them where they cannot see or hear the other birds. Not in a cage in the loft. Your coop may not be large enough to give them enough room. They should actually have 2 square feet of floor space for each bird. They live there and need room. 
As cwebster has mentioned, you have 5 birds. To have any kind of peace at all, each bird should have a mate. No singles. 
This is probably a young male, and he may calm down in time, but he may not. Removing them from the loft usually helps. When they are returned, they are now the new kid on the block. The others will hopefully establish an order and lock him out. If it doesn't work then you may need to get rid of him. If he is that mean, then he may attack the babies of other birds as well. You don't need him around if that be the case.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks for all the advise. I have gone out and bough some plastic stacking shelves and will attach them to the outside of the coop today. I can cut holes in the wire sides of the coop to the birds can get into them.

This might end the problem if the other birds can each claim a nest box and defend it from the bully!

If now, I will try to move the nest and put it into one of the nest boxes and close them in for a few days.

I did not 'allow' them to nest on the floor. I was away for over a week, and a friend was looking after them for me. When I got back I found they made the nest and already were brooding 2 eggs, and did not have the heart to destroy the nest / eggs.

He is the oldest bird. I just had this pair. The other 3 are his offspring from about one year ago when they lived in a large coop at my old home.

His youngsters are not aggressive at all to each other or their parents. Only the father bird is being 'bad'. 

You are right that I can't let this continue or the young birds will leave. Keeping them all locked in until something gets sorted out. Keeping the bullying male out of the coop most of the day.

*I want to check if the eggs are fertile. If they aren't I can solve the problem by throwing them away and removing the nest. The eggs are just over a week old now. What is the best time to candle them? What will I see if they are alive?*

Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The eggs most likely are fertile. Not sure what you meant about cutting holes in the wire to allow the birds to get into shleves? Can you post a picture so we can understand the problem?

If you only had this pair, and the coop is not so big, then that is why he is viewing it as his territory. It is actually. You have brought them into his territory. It is normal for him to defend it against any others. When the loft is larger, they don't have as much trouble. They can still try to defend, but it is more difficult, and they work it out and get used to the others.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

jak2002003 said:


> Thanks for all the advise. I have gone out and bough some plastic stacking shelves and will attach them to the outside of the coop today. I can cut holes in the wire sides of the coop to the birds can get into them.
> 
> This might end the problem if the other birds can each claim a nest box and defend it from the bully!
> 
> ...


Trying to change the bird is harder than actually solving the problem, which is space. Pigeons need space and a place to nest, even two nest boxes to each pair. The young birds will mature and mate up too if there is someone to pair up with, the making of nests is a big part of pigeons Life and they need a place to do it and space and an aviary. 

To begin with you needed a loft that is big enough to hold the amount of bird you want to keep, a section for pairs to nest and a section for young weaned birds and single birds. You will find if you give the birds the room and areas they need. All goes smoother. And the importantace of an aviary for them to get sunlight and fresh air when your not flying them is really quality of life issue that a lot of people overlook. In short, build a proper loft with the birds needs first.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It does sound as though you don't have enough space for them. A kit box is not large enough for any pigeons. If you keep them as pets, then you need to give them room to live in their loft. They need to have room to move around and live. And yes, they also need a wired in aviary where they can go out into the sunshine and fresh air. You can set up a bath out there for them to enjoy. If they are locked up in a small space then you are not meeting their needs. What they need to be healthy and happy. Can you post a picture of where you keep them? We are not trying to pick on you. Just trying to help you to understand what they need to be happy and they will get along better.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> It does sound as though you don't have enough space for them. A kit box is not large enough for any pigeons. If you keep them as pets, then you need to give them room to live in their loft. They need to have room to move around and live. And yes, they also need a wired in aviary where they can go out into the sunshine and fresh air. You can set up a bath out there for them to enjoy. If they are locked up in a small space then you are not meeting their needs. What they need to be healthy and happy. Can you post a picture of where you keep them? We are not trying to pick on you. Just trying to help you to understand what they need to be happy and they will get along better.


I am a bit confused. I see many people keeping pigeons in kit boxes when they are not breeding. They all seem happy and healthy.

My birds are not in there all the time. They are allowed out each afternoon and left out for several hours to bath, fly about, explore the garden, etc and they return on their own as evening approaches and they go in to roost.

I hold have 5 birds. The size of the coop is 6ft high, 3 foot deep, and 5 ft long. For my 5 birds I have 10 perches.

They are showing no signs of interest in the nest boxes. I think they are scared to go in them.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Peace Reigns …… YES !!!!


The birds were scared of the nest boxes for the past couple of days. But, this afternoon I went out and collected lots of twigs and piles of soft dry pine needles, and put this nesting material into each box.


Well, the birds could not resist that, and went to explore in the boxes. The bully bird at first claimed ALL of the boxes and kept chasing the other birds out if they tried to get in. But, in the end he decided on the TOP box (of course lol) and is happy to stay in there cooing and making his nest.


His son has moved in the apartment below and is cooing and displaying in there very happy to have a nice bedroom.


The boss birds mate is happily brooding her eggs on the floor (which I candled and both are fertile).


That's 3 out of the five birds settled down. The other 2 are happy to just chill out on the V perches. 

I even chances letting them out this afternoon, and they all went back in with no fighting. 


Keeping my fingers crossed this has sorted out the problem of the bully.


Watching the birds closely the last few days I can say for sure I have 2 males, and 1 female.


The other 2 birds I am not sure of their sex. I suspect 1 is male as he coos a lot, but never seen his properly display. the other one is a large bird, that I thought was male, but this one does not coo much and is very calm and placid (hope its a female).


I don't want to end up with 4 males and one female!!!


Hopefully, when the eggs hatch they will be 2 females. 


I will get some photos of the coop and next boxes / birds tomorrow when its light. I live in Thailand, so its evening now.


Thanks again for all the advise.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear there is peace in the coop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

With a loft 3X5, that gives a couple of square feet of floor space for 7 birds. 
There are times that they are kept in, and having enough room is important. The more space, the fewer fights and less stress. Less stress means healthier birds. They don't get sick as easily. 
I'm glad they are taking the boxes, but you might try just leaving the nesting materials out where they can get them and bring them back to their boxes now. They really enjoy collecting them and bringing them home to their box, and it's also fun to watch them. You should now try moving the nest to the box. If allowed to nest on the floor, they will always view that as their space. Once they use a box, it will always be viewed as their territory too, so don't let them start changing boxes. If they take a second box, they will defend both boxes as their own.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> With a loft 3X5, that gives a couple of square feet of floor space for 7 birds.
> There are times that they are kept in, and having enough room is important. The more space, the fewer fights and less stress. Less stress means healthier birds. They don't get sick as easily.
> I'm glad they are taking the boxes, but you might try just leaving the nesting materials out where they can get them and bring them back to their boxes now. They really enjoy collecting them and bringing them home to their box, and it's also fun to watch them. You should now try moving the nest to the box. If allowed to nest on the floor, they will always view that as their space. Once they use a box, it will always be viewed as their territory too, so don't let them start changing boxes. If they take a second box, they will defend both boxes as their own.


Thanks for the suggestions.

I will also scatter some nesting material about outside the coop, so when the door is open they can hop in and out collecting the twigs.

I am a bit scared to move the nest. I really would like some more pigeons. Where I live there seems to be very little interest in the pigeon hobby. It has taken me many years just to get some white racing pigeons. I had 2 males which I had to cross with big white king pigeons to get some half decent flying birds through selecting the young that were the correct size and shape. I had over 60 birds in a huge coop at one time. Sadly our city had an outbreak of avian botulism (but I suspect it was bird flu). I lost all but 6 pigeons (also all my chickens and ducks). I had to move house 2 times with these birds and 3 escaped over the 2 years and did not return. One got sick and died. So I just had my one pair from all those birds..... that is why they are so precious to me. 


The 2 eggs are very important as I have so few birds. Now, the only way I have to get more birds is take some white feral pigeons from the city, which I don't want to do as they might have diseases, or when they have young they will not be pure white. 

Do you think it would be better to move the nest on the floor once the babies have hatched and are a week or so old? The hen bird has not been in the nest box, only her mate is in there. 

Pics coming soon!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have told you what will happen if you let them nest there, but I can see why you don't want to disturb them. In the same place, I would leave them there also, but you will just have to deal with their being territorial. At a week old, they may still abandon them if moved. 
You have really had a bad time of it haven't you? That must have been terrible. I'm really sorry for that.
The hen won't go into the box while she is with these eggs or babies when they hatch. The male is looking for more realty.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Got some photos. Still all behaving well today.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Couple more.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's a nice aviary, but nice to have a loft with solid walls for them to get into to get inside and away from wind and rain. Also if predators bother them, they really have no solid structure to go into to feel safe. Even mosquitoes can be a problem in an aviary. And they cause pox. That is, like I said a nice aviary, but should have a solid loft attached to it, and they can go into the aviary when they want to. And the trap should be covered at night and locked up. Things can get through those bars. Nice birds............pretty.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

In looking at it again, that hedge does pretty well keep the rain out on that side, which is nice.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> It's a nice aviary, but nice to have a loft with solid walls for them to get into to get inside and away from wind and rain. Also if predators bother them, they really have no solid structure to go into to feel safe. Even mosquitoes can be a problem in an aviary. And they cause pox. That is, like I said a nice aviary, but should have a solid loft attached to it, and they can go into the aviary when they want to. And the trap should be covered at night and locked up. Things can get through those bars. Nice birds............pretty.



Don't worry, no rain gets in. It is build like that because its very hot here in Northern Thailand. Today it's 40 degrees C. Normally its about 35 ish. 

I built it like that so they have a breeze and air to keep them cool. Its also behind my house so it does not get the full sun (and also under the cover of the house roof overhang.

If I gave it solid walls I think they would be roast pigeon lol.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

OH, forgot to mention... right behind the back of the coop is a solid brick wall. That looks like a green hedge is actually a plant that grows up the wall like Ivy and sticks to it. So they kind of have a sold back wall. 

Thanks again for all your help. I am keeping fingers crossed all stays nice and peaceful and the 2 eggs hatch.

I have been watching them again today. Am sure now I have 2 males and 2 females. The last bird in a mystery. It is a quiet bird and placid. It does not fight the other birds all, and they pretty much leave it alone. Its the only one not interested in the nest boxes too. Because its is big I though it might be a male (but its mother is the biggest bird I have so maybe just takes after her). Will be interesting to see in the future.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

The cage is already full, I’m not sure why you are letting them raise more. 2ft per bird is minimal space they should have. 

Also a snake can get in there quite easy . They like eggs and baby pigeons. 

I think this type aviary can work where you live because of the weather you have. It’s the space that birds need that is important. Trying to breed in a space with single birds is difficult and babies get killed. If you breed that pair actually that whole cage should be there’s and you should have another loft /aviary for the weaned young and single birds, and that one should not be over crowded either.... 2ft per bird minimum .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can see why being open like that would be better for them. Thanks for explaining. That looks like 1/2 hardware cloth which will keep most things out, which is good. But after these 2 eggs hatch, that would really be the total amount of birds you should have in there. I know you want more birds, but you don't want them crowded. Stress goes up and stress causes illness. 
Do you offer them a bath in that hot weather? Pigeons love to bathe.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ladygrey said:


> The cage is already full, I’m not sure why you are letting them raise more. 2ft per bird is minimal space they should have.
> 
> Also a snake can get in there quite easy . They like eggs and baby pigeons.
> 
> I think this type aviary can work where you live because of the weather you have. It’s the space that birds need that is important. Trying to breed in a space with single birds is difficult and babies get killed. If you breed that pair actually that whole cage should be there’s and you should have another loft /aviary for the weaned young and single birds, and that one should not be over crowded either.... 2ft per bird minimum .


No snakes can get in there! 

That is strong wire mesh with very narrow gaps. Have the same mesh on my finch and budgie aviary. Never any snakes get in. I can't even fit my smallest finger into the gaps in the wire. 

Yes, my plan is for only 7 or 8 pigeons in there at most.

As, I said, they are out half the day anyway.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

jak2002003 said:


> No snakes can get in there!
> 
> That is strong wire mesh with very narrow gaps. Have the same mesh on my finch and budgie aviary. Never any snakes get in. I can't even fit my smallest finger into the gaps in the wire.
> 
> ...


7 or 8 is too many. I was looking at the mesh “nest boxes” that are mounted on the outside , with the openings a snake can get in that. 

I see this a lot with white pigeons esp, usually people want to use the pigeons for something, like release , want to make some money with them, and in the process forget the needs of the birds and the space they require. I don’t know if you plan on using these birds and future birds for release , but if they are just your pets only then I would think you would continue to improve the space requirements and not put 8 pigeons in that cage together and expect a peaceful flock.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually 7 or 8 is the max it should be. No more. You would need to be careful if you don't want to over crowd, as they breed so quickly. But I went back and looked again, and it is true that snakes can get in the nest boxes, unless they are also covered with hardware cloth. That wouldn't be too hard.


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## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ladygrey said:


> 7 or 8 is too many. I was looking at the mesh “nest boxes” that are mounted on the outside , with the openings a snake can get in that.
> 
> I see this a lot with white pigeons esp, usually people want to use the pigeons for something, like release , want to make some money with them, and in the process forget the needs of the birds and the space they require. I don’t know if you plan on using these birds and future birds for release , but if they are just your pets only then I would think you would continue to improve the space requirements and not put 8 pigeons in that cage together and expect a peaceful flock.



I am not using them for money or a business. They are just my pets. From my calculations I can have more birds in there.  Your idea about how much space they need is your personal choice. The added nest boxes have made them happy and there is no more fighting at all.

I am going to not exceed 8 birds in there. I have dummy eggs to replace the real ones so not problem to stop them breeding.

I have taken your advise and wrapped more mesh over the outside of the nest boxes so no snakes can get in.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually the studies they have done on pigeons came up with the 2 square feet of floor space, not us. Some adhere to it and some don't, but it is true that the more space= less stress, and the birds are healthier and happier in general. Also, babies get scalped more often in over crowded lofts. It's great that you added the hardware cloth to the boxes. It would be awful to come out one morning and find babies missing.


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