# Baby Woodie. Bad Injury To Beak!



## amyable

HI,

Just brought back a baby, probably about 10 days old. It had been left in an aviary with three adults, but is certainly not able to self feed.
Only noticed when I got it home that it has a very bad injury right at the top of it's beak. Possibly been bitten as it has lost the skin at each side of the mouth. When I opened it's beak to look inside it looks like the wound has gone right through to the mouth on one side.

I've bathed it with Hypercal solution, it's very bloody and sore. Given it Aconite and Hypericum.

The trouble is he's very hungry, had been in the aviary since last night apparently, so don't know when it last fed. It's nuzzling my hand and so
I would usually feed Kaytee with syringe/ballon method, but I can't risk that as the wound is so open and would get clogged up.

Would it be able to take defrosted peas at this age as I think the only way I can feed it with this wound is by popping food in if it will swallow these. They seem so large for such a little chap. Unfortunately I haven't tube fed which might have been preferable.
I have Polyaid and could syringe this possibly if that would be better at this age.

Janet


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## Feefo

Might be best to rehydrate first. Have you got any antibiotics for that beak? I can get some to you by tomorrow if you need them

Poly Aid is an emergency food that has all the nutrition that a bird that can't or won't eat needs, but I don't think it would be suitable as a baby's only food.

I think that peas and corn, crushed, would be OK, the parent bird would be feeding it real food at this age, soaked in the crop.

This is the Wildcare recipe, crushed and mixed with water should form nice wet pellets that you could try:

wild bird seed
frozen peas
finely chopped apple
finely chopped peanuts
finely chopped fat balls
finely shredded greens
wholemeal bread crumbs

Or you could feed on day old wholemeal bread dipped in Original flavoured Complan, so he gets the fluids that he needs.

BTW remember that at that age they like their food nice and warm: 39 degrees C.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Hi,

Yes forgot to say, I had rehydrated when I first came home.

Photos of wound.








Will this heal over do you think?

He's such a wriggler and as I try to open his beak, he squeals, must be sore but not easy to open his beak without touching the wound. I'll try for the bread so I can get some food in him this evening.

I've just got three Noroclav left, just dated out in May. Would really appreciate if you can spare any Cynthia.

Thanks

Janet


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## Feefo

Hi Janet,

I am sure it will heal.

You could try the "bent spoon" method of feeding. It involves bending the sides of a spoon upward, so that it looks like the lower bill of a pigeon. I have never tried it, but it worked for Diogenese, another woody rescuer. 

I lost track of time and didn't get in until after the post had gone, so will send you Noroclav or synulox tomorrow. The use by date just means that the meds might lose their effectiveness slightly after that date, but it isn't a sudden slump so they will be OK.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Hi,

I've dissolved half a 250gm tablet in 0.7ml of water and given 0.1ml as he's 150grms.
I based this on a thread from July 2008 for a dove of similar weight. It said to give this twice a day. As you know I don't have a clue when it comes to calculating doses. Does that sound about right?

He's breathing quite fast at the moment, so I've got him on heat and am giving Aconite as he's probably getting a bit stressed as it seems to hurt him when I feed him.

I will give the spoon a go as it's impossible to open his beak without touching the wound on the side. Looking at it again, there is a hole or puncture wound that goes right through the top of the beak into his mouth.

Thanks for the help.

Janet


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## Feefo

Is that really 0.7 ml or did you mean 7ml?

If 0.7 ml and you gave him 0.1 ml that is 35 gms. He only needs 18gms (12.5 mg per 100 gms) , but it is quite usual to double up on the first dose.

Poor baby, it is hard to guess what damage the puncture did, I haven't got the knowledge of anatomy.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Sorry, I was doing a feeding round, got four on the go at the moment.

Well this thread I took it from debated about the dose, and so Pidgey calculated it in the end, that's why I thought it must be right.
Originally it was 7ml, and the dove was supposed to get 1ml each dose, but Pidgey was asked to re-calculate to give less water to make it easier to administer. So he then came back to mix 0.7ml and to give 0.1ml twice a day.
I'll go back and check it.

I've never given it diluted in water before, but as it's a baby I thought it might be better as it would be difficult to break the tablet into small enough sections.

Oh for a brain ! 

Janet


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## amyable

Hi again,

Well I just went back over the thread and that's what it said. It was originally taken from Nooti's chart but then Pidgey went over the calculations, and came back with 0.7ml of water, giving 0.1ml twice a day for a 155grm dove.

Ok I'll reduce it tomorrow.

Janet

ps.

I've just thought, I'm only mixing half a tablet (125grms of the meds) in 0.7mls, so is that ok? was your calculation based on the whole tablet? If so, that would make it pretty well what you said......... I think, I hope. Poor bird relying on my brain, not good!!


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## Feefo

Oh, for a brain! 

Yes, I missed reading the word "half". I sometimes think I suffer from that form of dementia where things disappear and then pop up again.

So yes, the 0.1 ml is right.

I am so sorry. I actually wondered why you hadn't used half a tablet and then thought "Ah, yes..she did. The tablet is 500mg!

Cynthia


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## amyable

I'm glad that's ok, thanks for letting me know.

Janet


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## amyable

Hi,

I'm wondering if the problem inside his mouth might possibly be canker.
It's larger today and yellow in colour but hangs from the roof of his mouth. I've only ever seen canker in the throat, could it also be located here?
I really can't tell but I've just given him half a Spartrix in case, should I still give the whole tablet to a baby this size?

Am managing to feed him Kaytee directly 1ml at a time, so I avoid getting food in the wound on his face, and also some skinned peas, half at a time. Seems ok with this as he has put some weight on and is much perkier and responsive.

Janet


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## Feefo

It could be respiratory exudate or pus due to the puncture wound, but giving Spartrix won't hurt him.

As he is only 150 gms you can use half a tablet, but there is a wide safety margin so a whole tablet won't harm him.

Cynthia


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## PigeonQueen

amyable said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've dissolved half a 250gm tablet in 0.7ml of water and given 0.1ml as he's 150grms.
> I based this on a thread from July 2008 for a dove of similar weight. It said to give this twice a day. As you know I don't have a clue when it comes to calculating doses. Does that sound about right?
> 
> He's breathing quite fast at the moment, so I've got him on heat and am giving Aconite as he's probably getting a bit stressed as it seems to hurt him when I feed him.
> 
> I will give the spoon a go as it's impossible to open his beak without touching the wound on the side. Looking at it again, there is a hole or puncture wound that goes right through the top of the beak into his mouth.
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Janet


Im getting confused reading the posts. Sorry can you clarify. Are the Noroclav 500mg or 50mg? I ask only because I have 50mg Noroclav.


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## amyable

Hi Jayne,

You're right, the Noroclav are 50 gms. I have had some Synulox for my dog before that were 250gms, so I got confused. it doesn't take much for me to get confused when it comes to figures, not my strong point.

I actually admitted to Cynthia in a pm that I had got it wrong, and we re-calculated it, trust you to spot my 'deliberate' mistake !!!!! 

Just checking you were awake. 

Janet


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## chriss80

Hi Janet, you can turn the Kaytee in small dough balls with water and handle them in different sizes.

Also I reed once about Pox, I heard baby pigeons have it. Might not be that by the look of the pictures but maybe worth searching into it.


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## amyable

chriss80 said:


> Hi Janet, you can turn the Kaytee in small dough balls with water and handle them in different sizes.


Good idea, I'll try them.

He just goes mad for defrosted peas after he's has some Kaytee, so I top him up with some of those.

A lady who takes in birds from our vets gave me some kitten teets yesterday to try, they fit on the end of a small syringe, so is a bit more like tube feeding. ( I was a little worried when she said she had one come off once and get stuck in the bird's throat).

Janet


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## amyable

Have managed to feed with syringe and ballon as long as I fill the wounds with Hypercal cream first, this seems to stop it getting bunged up with Kaytee.

I am still worried as to how this beak is going to end up. Phoned the rescue centre to ask if they knew if the fleshy top would regrow over but they didn't know. There's a bit of the flesh hanging loose on the top but I daren't take it off as it bleeds underneath. Still on anti-biotics and doing well as far as development.

One query here. As I'm going to be out all of Saturday, I decided to set out to get him self feeding today so I wouldn't have to take him with me to feed.

What a star, he got it in one minute, and drinking too !!

The trouble is he doesn't know when to stop. I think it was such a novelty he kept popping them in.
I left him for a while and went back later to give him some Kaytee but his crop is stuffed full of seeds, so didn't give him any.
I just gave him a few drops of water with enzymes in to try and help him digest all these.
Should I stop giving him any seeds for a while to see if his crop empties or will he just self regulate his intake?
The others I reared weren't so quick to take to the seeds so it was a more gentle weaning process.

Janet


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## Feefo

Hi Janet,

Take his seeds out overnight and check whether his crop has emptied.

Some woodies are amazing at learning how to eat on their own. I had one that I was hand feeding because he was so young, so I hadn't put seeds in his cage. On the first day I did, he ate them all, even though he was a baby still.

Be patient about the beak. Les had a pigeon that had been scalped so badly it had lost its eyelid and the vet recommended euthanasia. He refused and under his care the pigeon started using its third eyelid instead. She is with me now, and it is very difficult to see that her eye isn't quite normal. And within days of arriving here she had bagged a mate and a nesting spot.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Feefo said:


> Hi Janet,
> 
> Take his seeds out overnight and check whether his crop has emptied.
> 
> Some woodies are amazing at learning how to eat on their own. I had one that I was hand feeding because he was so young, so I hadn't put seeds in his cage. On the first day I did, he ate them all, even though he was a baby still.
> 
> Be patient about the beak. Les had a pigeon that had been scalped so badly it had lost its eyelid and the vet recommended euthanasia. He refused and under his care the pigeon started using its third eyelid instead. She is with me now, and it is very difficult to see that her eye isn't quite normal. And within days of arriving here she had bagged a mate and a nesting spot.
> 
> Cynthia


With your young one, did you carry on hand feeding once he was picking up seeds as he was younger? I was just wondering whether to with this little one as he's still got seeds in his crop. I'm not sure of his age, I've had him a week so he must be about 2weeks at a guess.

Lovely story about Les' bird just shows they deserve every chance. 

I was just worried about him imprinting as I may have to keep him longer than normal. I'd like to know the beak is ok before he goes anywhere. It would be tragic if he was released for it to go and break or become deformed out there.

I'll see how it looks after the weekend.

Janet


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## Feefo

Once he started feeding himself I left him to it because he absolutely hated being hand fed. But he didn't have any disability.

Yes, I think it is better if you keep him in, as long as you don't spend time stroking him etc he should be OK, but he should go to a sanctuary and spend time with other woodies before he is released.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Weirdest thing.

I was just standing over him while he had a drink. Water was coming up through the puncture hole in his beak, so still a hole there.

Janet


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## Feefo

Poor little thing, I wonder what on earth happened to him. Is the lower part of the beak free from injury?

Do you have any vitalzym (I never remember how to spell that!)


Cynthia


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## kbbigman

Hi Janet, you sure sound like you have your hand's full looking after this little one, keep up the good work though and let's all hope he pulls thru, he looks like a little trooper.


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## amyable

Feefo said:


> Poor little thing, I wonder what on earth happened to him. Is the lower part of the beak free from injury?
> 
> Do you have any vitalzym (I never remember how to spell that!)
> 
> 
> Cynthia


Hi,

Sorry only just managed to get on, had the worst day for injuries, so this little chap has had to feed himself whether he likes it or not!!  and he has.

Yes his lower beak is ok thankfully. Whatever happened has just damaged the one side and the top. At least with less Kaytee feeds it's getting a chance to harden up and isn't so raw looking today. Still wonder if the gap will fill in or not. The damage still looks the same inside the mouth. Just hoping that will sort out and fill the puncture hole up eventually.

I have some Vitalzym, I think that's the right spelling. I'll give him some when he's finished his ant-biotics tomorrow and see what that does to help the healing. Thanks for reminding me about that.

Hi kbbigman, thanks for the note. 

Janet


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## amyable

Hi,

Just managed to pull a small plug out of the hole in his mouth.
It's quite a large hole under there right through the roof of his mouth. I hope now I have that out there might be a better chance of the hole healing up.

The wound at the side of his beak is starting to look much better and even the section of beak that's missing seems to be filling up. I think the outcome for the beak as a whole will depend I feel on how well this puncture hole heals now.

He's doing so well otherwise.

Janet


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## amyable

Hi,
I'm glad to say the gap in the beak and the puncture wound in the mouth did eventually heal over. I just kept taking off the scabs that formed after the plug came out of the mouth, and it had healed fine.

The beak isn't perfect and it doesn't meet completely, but didn't seem to hamper his eating.










I took him and his little Blackbird friend to the rescue centre yesterday ( I cried all the way there and back).  
I miss their antics, pinching each others food and sitting together in the plant pots, they were good company for each other while they recuperated!

Janet


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## PoppyFieldVet

They are just gorgous, I know how you feel, its hard to let them go but you've done such a great job. They're healing ability is so underestimated, so often a helping hand is all they need. 

XxX


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## Feefo

That is good news, Janet, I am glad he is doing well.

You are becoming a great rehabber with experience of so many birds. The sanctuary that I take song birds to now started 5 years ago with the rehabilitation of three tiny tits! I will be taking my three releasable woodies there as they have release aviaries, it will break my heart to part with them. I am hoping that they will stick together as poppyfieldvet's Rosiewood is one of them and she was an adult when found, so she can show the other two the ropes...but the release pen is right next to a feeding station and they should be able to find that every day..the sanctuary is surrounded by conifers which will provide them with a good environment, no need to fly off.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Hi,

Well I've just come back from another treck to take some more birds for rehab !
Not mine this time but a lady our vets hand injured wildlife to for tlc. If I thought I was busy she is amazing. She has a major hospital set-up going on in her home and garden. Usually she releases locally or straight from home but wanted to see where I go, so today we took two of her Woodies, a Collared Dove and two ducks she's reared so she could have a look.
It was so funny watching her two ducks see water for the first time. 
The others will go into the release pen in a couple of days after being checked over.
It gave me a chance to ask how my little ones were getting on. They are still in the 'hospital' area as Woodie is still having one feed a day and Blackbird has one wound to heal over, so they are ok.

I'm afraid I was a real chicken though as I had meant to take Bonnie, a young feral I found injured in a town centre a while ago. I don't have the heart to release him back in a town centre to struggle. He's got used to the finer things in life now, like food on tap!!
I wimped out and left him here but I think maybe he should go and see if he'd take to the open aviary life there so he can get to use his wing again now it's healed.
Next trip maybe. 

These rescue centres are such a Godsend aren't they, it does make the parting a little easier knowing these birds aren't going to be thrown out into the wild. A bit like going to college or uni for birds before they strike out on their own.
Cynthia, this one sounds lovely, I don't envy you letting them go but they have the perfect set-up for a good life by the sounds of it.

I did find one young Woodie today, wondering around the grounds at the centre pecking at the floor. It was still quite young and not afraid, and when I went over to it, it nuzzled my hands, so had obviously been hand reared and got imprinted. I hope it sticks around there as it certainly hadn't got the Woodie reserve it needs for the wild. This was a good reminder of the importance of getting them to mix with others before release.

I wish yours well once they go.

Janet


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## amyable

Just a final PS on this story.

I had to take a badly injured Buzzard up there tonight and as the place was officially closed I got taken in the back door where the 'hospital' pens are.

I scanned around the various little Woodies in their cages and suddenly spotted my youngster. He was recognisable by his deformed beak.
The sweetest thing happened when I was looking through the glass, he turned and did a double take and stared at me with his head on one side as if to say, 'don't I know you from somewhere?'

I quickly turned away as I was a bit choked and didn't want him to react to me again as he'd obviously moved on from needing hand feeding now. He had another little friend in with him who was more wild which was good, so when that one got spooked, so my little friend did too. So it looks as if he is 'wilding up' nicely.

I blew him a kiss and wished him luck before I left.

Sadly the little Blackbird hadn't made it after all. The one hole in his back was too deep apparently and didn't heal. He's flying free now.

Janet


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## Feefo

I am sorry about the blackbird. The reason I stick to ferals, woodies and doves is that they are much hardier than the more delicate songbirds, and can recover from the most dreadful injuries. I really admire people who can work with songbirds, there must be a lot of heartache involved.

I am glad the baby is doing well and that his companion is teaching him to be afraid!

Cynthia


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## amyable

I'm rather surprised about the Blackbird to be honest, it was so lively and never showed any signs of discomfort. They were sure he was going to heal ok when he arrived.

Unfortunately the Buzzard had to be PTS tonight aswell. I did hope they could do something for it. Amazingly enough a vet had sent it in to the 'sanctuary' saying it just needed to be built up a bit, they had done everything they could for it.

I found it lying flat, covered with flies and unable to move, so I asked them to let me take it somewhere where it could be looked at again.
It had possibly been hit by a car and had compound fractures to his legs as it turned out and was in a very bad way.
Thank goodness it isn't suffering any more. The rescue centre were flabberghasted a vet couldn't have seen these breaks.

A sad outcome, but I feel relieved for it.

Janet


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## Feefo

Poor buzzard...

You do a wonderful job, Janet, rescuing birds from the sanctuary.

Cynthia


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## Msfreebird

THESE SPAM POSTS ARE REALLY GETTING ON MY NERVES!!!!!!


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