# droop wing and other questions



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Alright, well i got the two birds that ive been waiting for. they are two silver bars white flights, one is baldhead pied tail and pied underbody. I got three questions.

1. Drooped wing, well when i saw them at his loft i saw one holds both wings under, and saw a parent that did it too. Well he told me today as he was giving me the birds one had the drooped wing and so did its mother, i guess not the father. Does anyone know about this? I know some breeds its the standard like oriental rollers. He assured us that it wasnt mixed and he got the parents and it doesnt look mixed. These are tipplers by the way. *I want to breed this bird, it has nice features but... i differently do not want this drooped wing. What are the chances of it coming back 50%?* The primary joint or whatever its called seems just weak. I want to breed it for the color but im afraid ill be causing trouble for myself. Need some advise, so i stay clear of it or not? It droops so low it gets pooped on

*EDIT:* could this be a calcium deficiency? He does give his birds grit all the time i believe. When we were taking care of his loft we put some grit down for the birds and they tore right through all of it, came right to it. Only a couple birds had drooped wings. Since it was the hen that had it and he doesnt separate birds could this be just a simply calcium deficiency? Would the wing come back with calcium added back to its diet or will it stay this way, also if this was the issue it wouldnt show itself in the young right?

heres the bird


















2. The one above has its all primary's white i believe, the other has all but two white, the ones that aren't full are mostly white. Whats the expectancy of white flights in the young, i don't plan on breeding these together but to future blue bars. I want to take the dilute out but keep white flights, fully white primarys.


3. Smokey, now i know smokey completely takes away the albescent strip but these seem like smokey, the one above the two outside feathers are pied so theres no way of know but the other one has half of an albescent. I took pictures to compare the new one which i thought could be smokey with and another silver bar which is not smokey. The new has a shorter strip.

new 









old


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I'll try to answer the questions as well as I can.

1. Droop wing - definitely a genetic factor and not a calcium deficiency. I don't think any studies have been done, but I assume it would be a recessive trait, since fantails have droop wings, and my crosses of fantail x homer did not have drop wings.

2. White flights (the non-pied variety) are dominant, and is linked to the baldhead gene. I have bred 50% white flights, 50% colored flights fairly consistently when mating a white-flighted bird with a blue bar.

3. Smoky is easy to detect in birds that are supposed to have dark beaks (blue/blacks and brows). Smoky removes the albescent strip from the tail, but also lightens the skin and beak. All smoky birds will have light beaks (with often only the tip colored on birds that are dirty also, like archangels). Your new bird looks to be het. smoky (which sometimes causes the albescent strip to be shorter).


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I'll try to answer the questions as well as I can.

1. Droop wing - definitely a genetic factor and not a calcium deficiency. I don't think any studies have been done, but I assume it would be a recessive trait, since fantails have droop wings, and my crosses of fantail x homer did not have drop wings.

2. White flights (the non-pied variety) are dominant, and is linked to the baldhead gene. I have bred 50% white flights, 50% colored flights fairly consistently when mating a white-flighted bird with a blue bar.

3. Smoky is easy to detect in birds that are supposed to have dark beaks (blue/blacks and brows). Smoky removes the albescent strip from the tail, but also lightens the skin and beak. All homozygous smoky birds will have light beaks (with often only the tip colored on birds that are dirty also, like archangels). Your new bird looks to be het. smoky (which sometimes causes the albescent strip to be shorter).


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Thanks, yeah I should have said het smokey. Wasn't sure if het smokey expressed that way, now I know. So your sure the droop wings are genetic? Because I read that sick birds can get it? Anyways if it's recessive then I'll just not breed the two together in the future. I kinda have a idea and want to breed to. But it's still being adapted as I go along. It involes blue bars, het grizzle, het or **** dirty will have to see, **** sooty, white flights, then probably a pied tail. I would like a badge or bald head but only without the bull eyes... Also maybe het for rec red and maybe a dilute version too haha. I have all the genes now it's just having them all fall into place. I will probably get more white flighted birds in the future. Others did not have drooped wings but this one is the only splashed one I believe. Now I need to soon get that blue bar het grizzle **** sooty het dirty? on my blue bar het dirty het sooty hen. Take there offsprings and breed it to the bird above. That's my plan I think. Subject to change.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Birds can also droop their wings when they are sick, but if it's always had droopy wings then it's genetic.


----------



## Tiplets (Aug 24, 2011)

What then is the white strip on the outer tail feathers on a all soild yellows, with flesh tone beak & eye cere??? I have noticed that in the past some of these solid yellows with that white strip on the outer tail feather produced "Bred" young with black dots on them???, I have also found that white strip on the outer tail feather on a few of my soild reds at times???


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

i dont know tiplets, the only thing that would explain to me would be ash red and yellow, but if there flight and tail are red/yellow then it wouldn't be that. 

I guess ill just wait to see. Flock got started on amoxicillin so we will see what happens. The wing droop on the splash is very low, not like any other bird he had and its only the one wing. The other bird will go back and forth but it actually seems like he holds them upright more often. Here are some old pictures of his birds and these two before i had them acouple weeks ago. Also the other wing is held above the tail while this one is just completely saggy. If i didnt know better it was like it was broken. But it can use it to fly.



















These are not the parents (i believe) but, wing down on picture up the next


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Do you have a picture of the bird you're talking about? What you're referring to is called the albescent strip, which is erradicated by the smokey gene. Smokey also lightens the beak/nail/skin color. Although ash-reds/ash-yellows are typically lighter skinned anyway without the addition of modifiers.

I don't know if recessive red/yellow overrides the albescent strip or not. I'm thinking it doesn't but I can't remember.

What do you mean "produced "bred" youngers"? Are you saying they bred the babies or is that describing the color? The black flecks would signify cockbirds carrying blue. Which if you're putting ash-yellows and ash-reds with recessive reds and recessive yellows, that can very well happen as you don't know what's under RR.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

his birds are RR and RY and whitesides of the two. I just checked mine, some younger birds you can see it but its not very visible its there but not as white as on blue birds. On order birds its less visible, the RR tries to hide it seems. The simple answer is this i think. Some are your birds are spread (blue spread which makes a bird all black) or ash red spread. Thus some birds will not have it and some will have it. As for the flecks, its probably just bleeding blue on the rump or something. Maybe not using the word fleck as we would with ash red flecks.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

the wing droop can mean salmonellosis: " Chronic form (mainly affects adult pigeons):

Inflammation causes a thickening of the joints, especially the elbow joint, wing or leg lameness, disorders of balance and torsion of the neck. Recognition of the disease: Bacteriological examination of faecal and/or organ samples. An antibiogram is performed to determine which medication is suitable for treatment purposes."


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Yeah i read that in my researching on it. I don't know if they would consider the adult birds above drooping or not. The young bird is obviously drooping. Wouldn't there be more signs than just that?


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

yeah, it had poop on it wing since its directly under its vent so i cleaned it.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Print Tippler said:


> Yeah i read that in my researching on it. I don't know if they would consider the adult birds above drooping or not. The young bird is obviously drooping. Wouldn't there be more signs than just that?


chronic .... perhaps no... get him tested.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

im confused is salmonellosis the same as paraythoid? i keep seeing salmonellosis/paraythoid or salmonellosis (paraythoid). Im giving them amoxicillin. Ill go buy batril if i need to


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, paratyphoid is a type of salmonella bacteria.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

well, im going to try to see if 14 days of amoxicillian will do anything. Can you do ACV and amoxicillian at the same time? I saw the poop and it looked bad. The amoxicillian would be oral and acv in the water. im done taking birds from him. i put them in isolation.

If the amoxicillian doesnt work ill buy Enroflaxyn i guess. This is a big bummer, if i didnt want the piedbald so much i would send them back!


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Tiplets said:


> What then is the white strip on the outer tail feathers on a all soild yellows, with flesh tone beak & eye cere??? I have noticed that in the past some of these solid yellows with that white strip on the outer tail feather produced "Bred" young with black dots on them???, I have also found that white strip on the outer tail feather on a few of my soild reds at times???


Ash-reds and recessive reds have natural flesh colored beaks, not related to smoky. Smoky will make dark beaks light, but on ash-red and recessive red, the only way to know whether you have smoky is by looking at the tail (and pattern areas on Ash-reds)


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Well if they are spread Rec red then you would have o way of knowing aside from breeding.


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Print Tippler said:


> Well if they are spread Rec red then you would have o way of knowing aside from breeding.


Spread does not cover the albescent strip, nor does recessive red. Smoky is the only way to cover the albescent strip.


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Spread does cover the strip. It makes a blue bird completely black, which includes the strip. Otherwise all my blue spreads, and blue spread mottles are smokey AND dirty because they are all dark beaked.


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Print Tippler said:


> Spread does cover the strip. It makes a blue bird completely black, which includes the strip. Otherwise all my blue spreads, and blue spread mottles are smokey AND dirty because they are all dark beaked.


That is incorrect, spread does not affect the albescent strip. All black homers in my loft have albescent strips, as did my recessive red homers. Spread on its own does not cover the albescent strip, so your birds would have to be at least het. smoky, and if the blacks are nice and dark and shiny, probably dirty and maybe even sooty too.


----------

