# Baby pigeon not growing



## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

http://tinypic.com/r/2u9he0j/9Hi Everyone, I wrote here 2 weeks ago about one of my baby pigeons not being fed, we have been hand feeding him but he has not grown at all, he seems to have remained in the newborn phase for almost 2 weeks now. I have attached a photo to show the difference in the 2 babies. One has grown perfectly normal, in fact he is huge lol. 

We have purchased a specific baby mix for newborns which has all the needed nutrients called "Nutropica", he eats, he poops, he cries but he is not growing. Is there a form of down syndrome for birds that exists?

Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He probably isn't getting enough to eat. How often is he fed?
How much are you giving him?
How are you giving it?


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi Jay, he is being fed every 2hrs during the day..he is 15days old and has not grown at all...he looks like he hatched today...the other is huge in comparison.
I use the thinest of syringes for insulin, we give until his crop if full...he poops, he sleeps, he does weez ..sounds like he is crying when he is sleeping...not all the time but alot...he is just in the baby phase and I don't know what else to do with him...he is a fighter that's for sure....he doesnt seem weak at all and I do not want to put him down...any advice?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

How much do you give in one feeding? 
Can you pls post a pic from front or a small video of the bird after he is fed?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

My advice was to take the larger baby out, let them find this little one, then put the other one back. Did you keep him in the house and feed him? He doesn't need feeding every 2 hours. Don't think you are feeding him enough. Fill his crop, then let him go like 4 hours. Make sure crop is empty before you feed him again. 
You can't be feeding hi m enough, or you are making the formula very watery, and he isn't getting enough food. He sould have been left with his parents and the larger one removed while they fed him. If he is wheezing, then you may have aspirated some of the food into his lungs.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

I hope I am reading the syringe correctly but it looks like I am feeding him 2-3ml every 3.5-4hrs or when his crop is empty. 

Has anyone seen the photo I attached in the last post? I will post again

http://tinypic.com/r/2u9he0j/9

They were born 2 days apart and look at the difference, incredible. I am pretty sure he has some sort of neurological issue that is preventing him from growing. Does dwarfism happen in animals?

Anyway, nothing has changed, he is still alive, I am just really concerned and wish I could be doing more for him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

By 2 weeks, they should be getting about 15 ml.
Think you have stunted his growth by not feeding enough. The normal one got planty to eat, so he is healthy. This one wasn't fed nearly enough.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

you are not feeding enough. you need to start increasing his food. I looked at the photo, you need to start increasing his food rations and make sure he is warm. he looks like he is only a few days old.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi guys, this is what you are not understanding...we have not stunted his growth at all. His crop will not hold anymore food at once. I am only able to get about 3ml into him crop or he will blow up. 

Yes exactly he looks like he is 2 days old....that is the point I am trying to get across to you all. I think he has something neurologically wrong with him, that is why he is not growing or gaining any weight.

Are you all suggesting I give him 5ml even if his crop won't hold it??? or even more than that?

We use a hot water bottle to keep him warm and his sibling has become so big he keeps him under his body or wing also just the parent would. My husband is a student veterinarian and will try to seek out a professor who specializes in birds to see what is going on. 

I really think he has some sort of dwarfism. I have never seen anything like this before.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much water are you putting in the mix? If you are making it too runny then he isn't really getting any food. I'm only saying this because others have come in with the same problem, and it has been this.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

I am making it a consistancy of baby food ...alittle thicker than pea soup, so I am able to push it out of the syringe.

Do you think I need to make it thick? Like a creamy peanut butter or even more thicker?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make it like pudding.
How are you feeding him?


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Jay3 my guys were about 2 weeks old when I rescued them, so this is out of my realm. Why don't you post an informative step by step guide about how to get the correct consistency for squabs and list what ages this would be applicable to and post it here. It would not only help this bird, but it would be a great tool for others who come looking for this information and could then find it in a quick search of the site. Jay3 if you don't want to, anyone who has experience with this age group (albeit in this case it would be for a newborn) I am sure it would be most appreciated if you could step in and show us.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There is a lot of info online if you search. Here is one example:
HOW MUCH TO FEED
Posted a while back by a member (Cynthia Roberts)

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

Cut the tip off a feeding syringe.
The syringe size varies with the age of the pigeon.
Start with a 5ml syringe.
Feed 1cc of very thin formula (eg Kaytee Exact) using 1 part formula to 5 parts water.
Feed 1cc every 2 hours at days 1 - 2
3cc every 3 hours for days 3-4
10-11cc every 5 hours days 5-7, thickening the formula every time.
By day 20 they should be taking 30-40 ml 3 times a day from a 60ml syringe.
Quantities are guidelines only. Crop sizes vary so feed carefully stopping to let the pigeon breathe and to check how [full the crop is.]

Cushiony crop
After feeding, the crop should feel soft and cushiony.
Do not overfeed or crop will stretch and sag forming a fold that traps food in it. 

Also make sure the crop is empty when you go to feed again. Not an exact science, but just gives you an idea. If you don't increase the amount of food given then the baby cannot grow. He will stay the same size. 
___________________________________________________________________
From another member: (Charis)

When the babies are with mom and dad, they are fed every time the crop empties. The first meals at day one consist of approximately 1cc gradually increasing as the baby grows. If the food amount remains the same...the baby won't grow.
By the time a baby pigeon is 10 days old, mom and dad are feeding 15-18 cc's per feeding ever time the crop empties. They don't feed quite as often at this age because the formula they feed contains more solids and takes longer for the body to process.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

It mentions on Kaytee site itself:

Hatch - Day 2 : 1 part formula to 6 parts water.

Days 2-5 : 1 part Exact to 2 or 3 parts water.

Day 5 to weaning: 1 part Exact to 1 1/3 - 2 parts water.

http://www.kaytee.com/assets/021/42699.pdf

You have to feed again as soon as the crop emties and have to feed until the crop is 3/4 full. I have seen an example here some time back of a baby who didn't grow and died because was being under fed. The next time another baby wasn't growing until the poster realized the same and when he started feeding sufficient amount, he grew up. 

Your baby is quite under weight tho, pls try now. Hope he catches up and survives. Many people under feed babies being afraid of over feeding. Poor baby.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just mix till it looks like pudding. And the baby needs to be kept very warm or he can't digest the food. So if you weren't keeping him very warm, that would have made a difference also. He should have been kept with parents. Did you keep him in the house by himself? If fed enough then you could have fed him when crop emptied maybe every 4 hours, 4 times a day.


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## careyotis (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi yes we use a hot water bottle and his food is like pudding...he is super strong but looks like 2 days old. He is now almost 17days old


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A heating pad works better, set it on LOW, and put a layer of towel over it. Then place the bird on that. A hot water bottle cools off.
He hasn't been getting enough food to grow and be healthy. He is getting enough to stay alive, but he isn't thriving or growing. You never upped the amount of food you were giving him. To grow, he needs more.


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