# Expert Advice Please



## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

First of all let me say how wonderful it is to read the posts on this site and find people who actually love pigeons. Some of your stories have made me laugh and some have made me cry. You seem like the NICEST bunch of people! I have a long pigeon story which I will try to shorten up here because I need advice and so don't want to bore you all before asking the question. I have two adult pigeons (Baby and Angel Wings) we rescued from bird dog training coop. Baby had actually been living on our roof when he followed Angel into that coop. Luckily I was able to track him down and insist on his release. We were told they had to remain flightless for at least six months or they would just fly away. We will be coming up on six months in early December. My husband has built them a separate cage (he also built them a wonderful coop with aviary attached) so we can carry them all around the whole yard before letting them fly. The female, Angel Wings, sits calmly in the cage and looks all around but Baby, the male, get's in the cage and totally freaks out and hangs on the sides of the cage and even has flipped upside down. I'm afraid he will hurt himself. We also have American Kestrals hunting in the area (I don't know if they can get pigeons or not) and when winter sets in we have had Cooper's Hawks in the area and I know they will kill pigeons. The man who has the bird training coop (and I feel the same way most of you do although he promises me he never shoots the pigeons he just uses them because the dogs can't catch them as they can quail or pheasants - YUK there's a whole other thing to worry about) told us he released some young birds the other day and they didn't come back. That just about did it. I can't stand the idea of letting Baby and Angel go and have them not come back, but I feel like I am robbing them of way too much. They are a strong and healthy breeding pair (we have been switching their eggs and I feel terrible about that too) and they should have time to fly. I'm really torn. Anyone know how to prepare them so they will return? My husband has informed me even he cannot build a huge safe bubble for them to fly in so that's out. LOL. My husband has been willing to walk rapidly with one of them at a time in his hands toward the coop entry door bless him. While we have kind of gone nuts around here we do love these birds. Help? I promise not to be so wordy on any future posts if you don't throw me out with this one!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi BabyAngelwings, 

Welcome to Pigeontalk! 

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your post Are these pigeons living in the coop your husband has built now? If so, how long have they been in this coop...approaching 6 months? Are these homing pigeons?


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## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

*Sorry for the Confusion*

Baby and Angel Wings are living in the coop my husband built. He has even "created" a heat system for them as it is starting to get very cold. I asked him to build a separate cage so we could carry them everywhere in this yard to completely orient them before letting them fly but they are not in there for long periods of time just to get oriented but Baby freaks out while Angel seems to enjoy it?


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## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

*Sorry for More Confusion*

They will have been flightless for six months here about 7 Dec. I know nothing about pigeons except what I have learned from B and AW and some of your wonderful posts. I thought all pigeons were homing pigeons. Does your question Brad mean that some pigeons won't come home when released. Baby lived on our roof and above our porch light through the whole winter of 2004 by his own choice. We have no idea where he came from.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Welcome to pigeon talk and thank you for protecting those sweet little angels.
One question, is their coop big enough so they can fly in there?
Given the circumstances in you neighborhood I would not let those guys free fly ever, the dangers are too great.
Some pigeons adapt great in captivity, only few don't. But most given time are doing great.
Are your two mated? If yes, Baby should adapt, it could take up to a year.

Don't worry about your stories being too long, we love pigeon stories.

Reti


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi BabyAngelWings,

Welcome to PigeonTalk 

I definately agree that you should not be releasing these birds due to the many dangers in your area.
It sounds like Baby may take a little while to adjust to his new home, however if he followed Angel previously to the other place, then it is likely that they will both settle in nicely together. Just give him a little time to adjust.
All pigeons home to a certain degree, however homing pigeons have been bred for this ability and are much better at it than most other breeds.
Your husband sounds like he is very capable with building things, and I'm sure he has setup a nice new home for them to be in.
Aslong as there is room for them to fly around a bit and exercise their wings a little, they should get enough exercise and be quite happy.
It is quite obvious that you care greatly for these pigeons, and I would hate to hear that you released them and they did not return to you as they had been attacked or injured somehow.
Let us know your progress, and don't worry about the long posts, we love to read and to help 
Regards
Alaska


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and welcome to pigeons.com

Thank you for your great care and consideration of these birds. Sounds like they have a great life with you.

I also feel very strong about not releasing them also because they have been in for too long and if let out it may or may not return, especially if they don't have the homing instinct.

Your husband sounds like a wonderful craftsman, perhaps he can fashion them a huge aviary for excercise time.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi everyone Love finally being in a group where people love pigeons, 10 years ago I found mine and I was so afraid of something happening to her I kept her she is my inside bird. She has quit the cushy life too. I know if anything happens to her I say I don't need another bird but I know myself I will get another pigeon. I have 6 other birds but they are from the parrot family. My pigeon is the cleanest and far the most friendliest, I even have her poopy trained to go back to her cage to go potty than she comes back out when she is finished.


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## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

Thanks for your valued opinions you people. I guess I will have to rethink everything somehow. I have been feeling terrible about keeping Baby and Angel Wings flightless and have been promising THEM that after six months I will let them fly. They can fly a little bit in their coop but it seems like nothing for birds that can fly like the wind. (I read on the Internet that pigeons can fly up to 55 MPH.) When we first got them home I was feeling so awful about depriving them of flight that I decided we would use an empty room in our house that has laminate flooring to let them get some exercise. We spread newspapers on the floor and put a ladder and sawhorse for perches in the room. Fiasco! Baby did go airborne but I guess he was confused and he hovered like a little helicopter in one spot creating such an airflow that the newspapers flew up in the air and fell all over the place. He crashed into the ladder (not hurt thank heaven) and then he and Angel both picked a step of the ladder, perched and fell asleep. We went outside and kept peeking in the window hoping to see some exercisin but there was only nappin. We haven't tried that again. Is it possible to know somehow whether they have a homing instinct? How do you know if a bird is a homer?
Thanks you guys!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

There's no way you can give them the space to fly at 55 MPH, but your empty room can give them space to get enough exercise to stay healthy. To make your indoor "flight room" more pigeon friendly, set up two or three cliff-type areas so they can fly from one to the other - they feel safer up high. The ladder and saw horse is a good start. To facilitate clean up, you might put an old towel around the base of the legs. When we have a bird inside, I put a rubber bath mat on top of a file cabinet and another mat on an old dog crate in front of the window and one in another corner. Papers will fly up with the liftoff power of a pigeon's wing and can startle the birds, so I found it easier to use bath mats and towels or just clean up after. They tend to poop over the edge of the "cliffs" you create, so a little spatula/scraper and bucket make quick pick up. Later, you can use a bit of vinegar in water to clean up the residue. 

Your birds may not have seen anything worth investigating. My birds have a morning and afternoon period of activity, resting in between so you might try to match your birds normal biorythm. Put food and water on an old towel in the center of the floor (weigh down the corners of the towel with something heavy & easy to clean like glass ashtrays or candle holders). This way, they can look out at the neighbors, hop to another "cliff", or fly down for a snack. (The towel keeps most of the seeds easy to clean up.) A hand-held vacuum can be handy for cleaning up the crumbs & feather dust that accumulate around the edges.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Excellent post, Terri !


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Excellent post, Terri !


Thanks!  I should have listed you as a reference, since I incorporated your shared experience to set up our pigeon room.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

Don't be silly, I just meant that your post was well written and thought out. I liked the way you explained certain things in it and the overall message you were trying to convey


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## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

Thanks again Terri and Brad! I cannot wait to print a copy of your advice so my patient husband knows what the next pigeon project is LOL! It all really makes sense, and I'm sure he will be able to make "cliffs" in our room. I will feel better if our piijies have some actual flight time so we will try all these excellent ideas. We had both Angel and Baby in their separate cage for awhile yesterday and they both did really well and were very interested as we placed them in different places in the yard. I think Baby was upset before because we had him in there alone as Angel was sitting on her fake eggs in the coop. Now my husband really shocked me by saying we could bring them in and put them on the island in our kitchen (with tarps and paper, of course) so they would get even more used to us. This is the man that told me to leave Baby in the Bird Dog Training Coop a mere five months ago LOL. Look what has happened to his life!

I have been dying to scrub the coop floor with Clorox or Pinesol (please no one faint) but haven't dared use anything but clean water. Do you use vinegar and water or what is a good but safe scrub for their coop area?

Naturegirl - How in the world were you able to train your pij to only poo in one area?

Trees Gray - Your picture of your pij on your posting could be our Angel Wings. Gorgeous!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I use vinegar on all surfaces daily to clean the poop, even in the cages.
Once a week I disinfect everything with basic G. I think everything else is way to toxic to use near my birds.

Reti


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## RoundAbout (Apr 24, 2005)

We had a similar experience in loving our first birds so much that we were afraid to let them fly. They live in an outdoor coop that is roomy, and they are very happy, especially if we put in some pine needles or baths every once in awhile. These birds bred and produced 16 babies. Now the babies we didn't feel as attached to, so we fly them each morning, and they love to fly up high and circle above the coop for about 20 minutes. Then they come home for breakfast. We haven't lost any, except for two that rolled down (they are Birmingham Rollers) and died.

So I guess my point is, you might let Baby and Angel have babies, and then let the babies fly. It is beautiful to watch them in the sky, but of course it is also dangerous for them, especially if you have lots of hawks. It is also lots of fun watching your favorite birds raise babies!


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## babyangelwings (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm not sure how long anyone keeps reading on these longer threads but Reti I hate to be such a dumb dumb but what is Basic G? Is is something like Simple Green? I have wanted to sanitize the coop but haven't dared use anything but water and the sun. Does the acidity in the vinegar provide sanitization too?

Also on this thread there was a post from Roundabout but when I came to post here it wasn't there? I have been so wanting to let B and AW have their babies but we aren't where we can let that happen. We have had big open fields behind us for many years but now progress and some posh, high-end homes are being built right behind us. I'm just hoping no one will complain about the pigeon coop that will be in their backyard. I have heard of a man in this area who has pigeons and doves just because he loves them and I want to ask if he can take a baby of B and AWs for us just so they can raise one. But how does the little sucker learn to fly if Mom and Pops aren't allowed? Thanks!


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