# Amazing carrot stick



## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

All my in house birds are for the most coop rescues. Fot one reason or another you know how it is, trouble happens and there is a baby to save or a painful to see death going to happen. Mr. Hooters was a parental reject, he is a beautiful roller now.( I will talk about his social difficulties another time) it is the carrot I want to talk about. I have fed babies with pet store bought syringes (no good) real syringes, (better) -spoons- what a mess. And inventer "brainyack is me" described the need to our young girl -she goes to the refer gets out a carrot and carves an imitation parent pigeon mouth-sort of. It is the most awsome baby pigeon feeder ever. Cut carrot 2 inches from base then hollow-out a small bowl section to hold formula, (warm up in water before feeding) REALLY REALLY works! They become so attracted to orange it can be used latter to get their attention. I got some clay to make better real like models with different aspects like some feeders that will allow baby to eat out of it freestanding, without you always having to hold it all the time- and so on. What other methods have you all found that work?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BB, 


Images?

Sound interesting!


I myself have always used regular people-baby soft-rubbe nursing Nipples ( but I did try some other methods also long ago but found the Nipple to be the best, or the most Natural and easy for them and for me ) ...and for the tiny Beaks, I cut off just the 5/8ths or so of the end of one, and use that untill the Baby Beak ( such as for Baby Doves ) gets larger.

Into this - into the hollow of it - I put their formula, or offer tepid Water, or electrolytes if need be for a new-arrive, and I have never had a Baby Pigeon or Dove not take to it wonderfully and fast, so long as it is offered right.

I have almost never had any Baby of any age or condition who was not eating or drinking with enthusiasm in the first five minutes of getting here...unless from dehydration and privation they merely tenderly drink first, and eat later once stabalized and hydrated...or if chilled and needing some warm-up time and so on first.

It is a good method, but like most things in Life, it requires some finess and points of observation for them to participate and 'get' it, for things to proceed in their terms.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

That method sounds very interesting! do they express on it with the pressure of their mouth and the formula comes out or, does it drip in or? I can't do pictures yet, until I figure out how to get them on this chat place. This weekend I will study the problem.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Boni, 

I nicknamed Phil "Dr. Doolittle." He talks to his pigeons and they talk back; I consider him one of the true "pigeon whisperers" on this site.

He has some wonderful techniques he uses with his birds and has some - ah - very inventive "names."

A pijie match made in heaven - IMO - if you two get your heads together!

He had a wonderful thread about his techniques, but, me, not being the brightest computer operator around, am unable to retrieve! HELP Lin Hansen or ANYONE!  The thread was called, "*Calming an all-wound-up Peeper, Squeaker or Squab*." I was quite intriqued! 

Bet you could get MORE inventive ideas!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Shi, I'm not Lin but I think this is it.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15530


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Maggie,

YES!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, "She Whose Mind Runs Along Same Track!!"

I used Lin because she's a wiz at finding threads...then, again, I was able to track down the thread name and hoped someone who knew how to retrieve would come along! ONE of these days, I'm gonna have to "learn" how...*sigh* and I thought I was OUT of school!!  

Enjoy Boni...


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Thanks Maggie, for finding the thread.......I enjoy tracking down old threads. Guess it's like finding a needle in a haystack.....very satisfying.

Glad you beat me to it, though. Poor Shi and Boni would've grown old waiting for me to show up and do it.....been really, really busy at work lately and then pretty tired in the evenings....so haven't been online as often as usual.

Thanks again!
Linda


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Thank you so much! I did enjoy that read. I couldn't have grown old waiting for the thread to be found I am already there!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I highly recommend Phil's nipple technique. It's pretty easy to learn and the birds seem to find it very encouraging to eat in a somewhat normal manner. It helps them transition to self feeding and drinking, and reduces the (scarey) possibility of aspiration. Besides, it's so cool to watch them chugging down the chow - "Oohh! Yumyumyumyumyum...mmm."


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Is there is picture on site of this bottle method? is it a regular human baby bottle?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Boni Birds said:


> Is there is picture on site of this bottle method? is it a regular human baby bottle?



Hi BB, 

No...no 'Bottle'...only ( the 'hollow' side of ) the Rubber Nipple one uses ON a Baby Bottle, or sometimes just the cut-off 5/8ths or so of an inch long end of a Nipple...being in effect a soft small rubber 'cup' into which they insert their Beaks to eat...more or less as they would do in inserting their gobbleing little Beaks into their parent's Throats to eat...

Only of course the angle is a little different, but the tactile is close enough for them to find it just fine by them.

The tiny-est Beaks get the cut-off-end merely, as their 'nose bag'...but soon they graduate to the full size version.

Ideally, one makes various sounds and gestures of invitation and assurance for the newly arrived orphan Baby, which in their terms put them at ease and indicates to them one's interest to feed them, and one's recognition of them.

These and other fine points make all the difference when one has Baby Doves or Pigeons who have been injured, starved, chilled or as may be, who are just barely hanging on as it is. When they feel recognised and safe, it helps immeasureable for their recovery and pro-tem decision to Live.


...and their willingness to 'eat' or drink allows one to give them electrolytes or thin formula if need be with ease...or for a healthy normal Baby, to give them full blown formula or formula-with-Seeds feedings right away.

If this link will work, it is of some images I have on 'fotki' showing a baby Dove who was feeling very dim from privation and injury, over a couple days perking up nicely. Also shown are some ofthe 'Nipples'...


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...if you click on the thumbnail images, it becomes possible to read the captions, which explain things...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Boni, here is a link to one method: http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

And, another way: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Both of these are courtesy of Cynthia in the UK. I thought I had a link to another method but can't find it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BB, all...


...I did not mean to introduce an ambiguity about feeding 'Chilled Babys'...where of course, one must NOT feed them till well after they are entirely, thoroughly, for sure, completely warm again...and even then, one does best to evaluate their state of Hydration, and or to limit their initial intake to tepid Electrolyte and or ACV-Water regardless, to help them process whatever food was stalled in their Crop or digestive system from being chilled.

I was just mentioning them as one sort of potentially wilty or dim from privation kind of Baby one might have brought to one, or one might find to bring home, where their feeling encouraged by being correctly warmed...and then when more conscious, feeling recognised and interacted with in terms they find meaningful, will greatly help them to be at ease, or even to decide to survive.


Formula thick enough to remain in a pierced-membrane-end Syringe barrel against the forcs of Gravity, will not generally be accepted by any but the most indifferent, robust or older Pigeon Babys, and likely will not be accepted at all by any Dove Babys...at least not when I tried it.

If the formula is soupy ebough to be right, it would run out of the "X" cut in the membrane unless the Syringe Barrel is being held somewhat less then horizontally, in which case some will run out and the rest will settle back where their Beak can not reach it.

This at any rate was my experience.


Too, with any of the Nipples, one gently squeezes the Nipple base or mid area to close it gently against their Beak 'sides'...making the inside shape of the Nipple to be in effect 'oval' in the axis of their Beaks opening and closing.
In a tactile way, this 'feeling' something soft against their Beak sides can be very important to many Babys, who otherwise will not eat.

It is not "just" a 'cup' for them to put their Beak into...it is a dynamic and interactive and almost 'living' gesture.

One tilts it, one moves it toward them and then slightly away according to their rythum of gobble and swallow...one follows their Natural way of moveing as they eat...some do this more than others...the very dim or weak hardly move at all other than just to softly eat while the rest of their body is still...

Such was the case with the little Dove in my link initially, then, as she gained strength, she became more active and then very assertive and active.

Formulas ( that is, their ingredients, and or also the kind of processing of the ingredients, ) should defer to the age and condition of the Baby or youngster.

As should the 'Water' - if needing to address a dehydrated Baby where only tepid Electrolyte Water is offered till their condition is improved for them to have some thin formula food.

Generally, all formulas will be accepted best if they are 'soupy'.

Babys and youngsters need quite a bit of water...and, in arid climes, or in heated indoor environs in Winter or colder Seasons, where the ambient indoor clime is 'dry' from indoor heating systems, then all the more so.

Offering tepid Water in the Nipple between meals allows them to drink nicely and remain well hydrated...and to process their food properly.

This, if one likes, very soon lets them progress to drinking tepid Water from a small Bowl or Tea Cup offered to them, so long as one gently have one's finger tips on the sides of their Beak the first few times...after that, they will drink readily from a Tea Cup when it is offered to them since they have learned through the simple progression.

Similarly, they can be guided through the same progression to be 'gobbleing' small whole Seeds offered in a small deep container, such as a typical Shot-Glass...where the first few times, one has one's finger tips on the sides of their Beak for them to 'feel' something warm and soft there, so they WILL eat or 'gobble' in inserting or having their little Beal guided to be IN the Seeds.

After some few experiences of this, they ( meaning say any Baby who is a week or more old, ) will readily begin to peck, and in fact in most cases can learn to drink from a Tea Cup, and, to peck and self feed the same day one got them BY being guided through this simple and deferential progression.

None the less, they should be 'fed' in their normal Baby-way, untill some time after they are flying decently...even though allowed moderate if progressive opportunitys to self-feed by pecking.

I myself never heva water Bowls for any youngsters, but instead, they get their Water from me only, and I offer it often and call them if need be to come and get a drink.

The parent's job IS to raise them...and there is no reason I see for this to mean one does not let them learn to self feed "early"...but to me it does mean one only lets them do so a little, then a little more, so that by the time they are post-fledged, they are allowed to eat 95 percent of their food by themselves, with but some token Baby-feedings once a day or once every other day even once flying well.

Then, they leave off wanting us to feed them anyway, by their own natural self posession and growing up...so there is never a so called 'weaning problem', and never a spoiled Bird having the problem.

Water should always be about our own body temperature for any Babys...as should the formula, of course.

Once they are older, one can let them have average room-temp cool Water and it is fine to do.

Otherwise, the very young will either NOT drink cool or cold Water, and if they do it will chill them unpleasantly, and then they will NOT trust it, or any water being offered subsequently.

Offering Water might not work well with a Syringe Barrel having a membrane covered end with an "X" slit in it for the Beak to go through, or, I suppose one could do so if keeping the Syringe Barrel more or less tilted as much as possible to be near vertical, so the water does not run out, and so their Beak can reach it.

Anyone, any time, anywhere there are any basic kinds of Stores to shop in, or who has or has had acquaintances with people-babys, can get rubber Baby-Bottle Nipples.


Love, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Thank you so much for the information. I just had to sit back in my chair and say "Wow!" I have dial up, if I had to type all that at once, why I'd get kicked off two or three times for sure. How long have you been a bird person?
You sure know your birds! Bb


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Why that looks like such a better idea than a carrot stick, maybe, I'll have to try it first to see! I do not wish for any orphans though, my house is so small.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

But the 'Carrot Stick' sounds SO wacky and charming..!

I still want to see am image of it in action...


Anyway, in a nutshell, those are my 'reasons', and something of the practice, for useing Nipples for feeding Baby or youngster Columbiformes...

Similarly, Adult Pigeons of whatever age in years, who have been subject to sever trauma and who are not eating but need TO eat at some point, will sometimes come around to be fed by the Nipple also, and will revert to some Baby-ways in their interest to be fed that way.

Sometimes these Pigeons are so tender and globally injured one does not wish to oblige them to be handled and managed for tube feedings...or, as an alternative to tube feedings if they are amenible, it is very kind to them this way, and occasions no stress...or in fact contrary TO stress, it can opccasion for them some dramatic improvement in their disposition and interest/alertness and poise.

This has been very handy sometimes for the Car wacked or Dog mauled or other who are feeling so poorly and sore and injured, they might not eat of their own otherwise for weeks...but, one does not wish them to starve, so...something needs to be done.

Thin, highly nutritious formulas can be made for the easiest digestions and least strains on their systems, especially when it is hard to guess what internal injurys may be compromiseing their digestive system.

If one can do the paralinguistics and gestures 'to' them, for them, which in their terms remind them OF being fed when they were still a Baby, they can suddenly show interest and surprise, and may let you feed them this way...and this also perks them up a great deal moralle wise, for them to feel accepted and safe and cared about in terms they understand...and to feel all that happy-Baby energy going on in themselves again.


Adults or older Pigeons, such as I am describeing, will basically, within the limits of their mobility from injury, act like "big" Babys; all brightness and focus and enthusiasm for being fed ( and looking somewhat still surprised one WOULD feed them this way) ...not constantly, and usually not kin their asking uninvited, but when being invited TO be fed, and in being fed, they will, or can act that way...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Phil I got lots of great pictures to post about the car seat and Mr.Hooters palace and all but when I went to post pictures it asks for a ULR or a URL or something. Don't know if I have one because I don't know what it is... Could I e-mail the pictures to an e-mail of someone who has a URL thing and they could post them? How does it work can you tell me? I'd be much appreciative.
Bb P.S. it is taking me a while to figure out people have wrote me back and how to notice that... sure is a lot to learn in "web pigeon space."


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Boni,

It's a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) .. all it is is a web address to where your pictures are. There are a lot of free picture hosting sites like webshots where you can upload your pictures and then post the URL to them to us here. We would LOVE to see your pictures.

Here's an example: http://www.rims.net/2007Mar30 .. that http thing is the URL to my website and the location of the pictures I want you to see.

Terry

PS: Yes, you can e-mail your pictures to me, and I will put them up on my website and post a link to them here. If you want to do it that way, send me an e-mail with pictures attached to [email protected]


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BB,


Yes, there are two basic ways for sharing images here...

One, is to post an ( must be within a certain 'size' ) image 'in' the thread or post itself, and if one follow the guidlines in the "go advanced" option at the bottom of the screeen when you do a regular post, you can do it so long as you have an image on a disc or in your files in your computer...there will be a 'brouse' menu for electing the location and image number or identifier...

Or, post images to 'fotki' or 'webshots' or similar free image hosting sites, and then, elect the web address of your particular album, and post that 'url'...and one can do this usually by just highlight-and-copy from the address bar when you are on your album page...or by copying the link or address one gets in the 'send this album to a friend' option, if you send it to yourself.


Hope this helps...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

Thank you so very much for being so helpfuL Some how completly by accident after reading all that everyone said -it happened - I got pictures up in the air at image shack... perhaps I can seek yor help on getting a picture of Mr Hooters by my name like every one else has? Thank you again, pigeon people are sooo helpful- it is amazing!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Hi Boni,
> 
> It's a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) ..


Amazing..........I NEVER knew what URL stood for........LOL......now I do. To me it was just some computer jargon that everyone recognized.....


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

I still don't know what LOL means, just didn't want to admit it.(smile)


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Boni Birds said:


> I still don't know what LOL means, just didn't want to admit it.(smile)


LOL........Laughing Out Loud
ROFL......roll on floor laughing
ROFLMAO........roll on floor laughing my [email protected]# off.......


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Boni Birds said:


> perhaps I can seek yor help on getting a picture of Mr Hooters by my name like every one else has? Thank



Boni, I am not the greatest working with computers but go to the top of the page and you'll see "User CP". Click on that and on the left will be a list of items. Click "Edit Avatar" and you can put a picture of either Mr. Hooter or Betti in. If you want, you can also select one of the pictures that the site owner, Big Bird has drawn to use as an avatar until you can figure out using a personal picture. 

Hopefully, someone else with more sense will give better instructions.  One of the moderators may even be able to put your picture up for you.


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## Boni Birds (Mar 19, 2007)

oh.. thank you, I am doing at least LOL with learning all this new stuff, this site is the greatest assest to my bird life -I have had! Thank you for being so helpful


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