# need heLp ..1st time feral rescue



## skeKz (Oct 4, 2006)

i live in downtown los angeles. i found what i beleive to be a female aprox. 1 month ago wandering out side the front door of my building. she had no feathers on the top of her head, the same under the wings. she seems to have a yellow growth of some sort at the back of the knee joint that appeared bigger on one leg (is this normal/callus?). she has since grown feathers back on her legs. i have fed her basic outdoor bird seed mixed with cooked steelcut oats and blueberries (i hope this isn't bad). supplement her water with 'VitaFlight'. i have learned, thanks to this forum, that she needs grit. where can this be purchased? 
she seems to be content to live out on the balcony. i put her in a carrier at night where her food and water is and let her have the feedom of the balcony(i live on the eighth floor). 
she had obvious problems with flight but within three weeks grew back all her feathers and continues to preen and groom herself. her flying so far has been through accidents so any direction on what course to take, or if im being too free with her, would be greatly appreciated. she has flown by accident twice. the first time she circled out to the street and back to the other side of the building she then flew back around and landed two balconies below. i went to the neighbor and retrieved her. the second time, today, she flew out to the street and came back landing in a place where i couldn't retrieve her. i lowered the carrier from the roof to try and caox her in and to my surprise she flew up to and on the roof. i walked over and she flew to an adjacent window and then down to my balconey. long story short .. she seems to be gaining strength. ;D
my concerns are that she still seems to breathe with a pant, her mouth ajar. not all the time but frequently. is this sign of an older bird? she 'seems' young. she has gotten a much stonger peck/nibble over the last few weeks so there is no injury there. the other physical symptom is that she shakes. on and off. definately could be fear but she shook even when another pigeon visited. is this symptomatic of any known diseases or infections? 
also .. little bugs, like flat flies seem to crawl under her feathers. what are these? 
she flies up on my shoulder and seems content. im willing to recprocate for life but wonder if she is a candidate for release. i have had a fair amount of contact. she follows me and has definately become tame among people. i may have answered my own question. 
is it allright to leave her on the balcony?. she def doesnt want ot fly off and seems to be able to find her way back/or am i fooling myself.
lastly,is there anything i need to worry about when handling her?

thanks i advance and sorry for the length the above..


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Hi Welcome To Pigeon Life*

Thank you for helping the pigeon. I can help you on some of your questions, other members who know more will come along and help you.

yellow growth of some sort at the back of the knee joint that appeared bigger on one leg (is this normal/callus?). I have no idea what that could be.

i have fed her basic outdoor bird seed mixed with cooked steelcut oats and blueberries (i hope this isn't bad) 

wild bird seed is ok , if you can pick up some pigeon / dove food at a petco or pet store it would be better or for a good pigeon seed mix check out:
http://purgrain.com/products.htm

Pigeons pick up grit when they need it, it grinds the seed in their crop and prepares it for digestion. You can purchase grit at a feed supply store or online. to read about the importance of calcium see:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7769

my concerns are that she still seems to breathe with a pant, her mouth ajar. not all the time but frequently. is this sign of an older bird? she 'seems' young. she has gotten a much stonger peck/nibble over the last few weeks so there is no injury there. the other physical symptom is that she shakes. on and off. definately could be fear but she shook even when another pigeon visited. is this symptomatic of any known diseases or infections?

Check the pigeons Mouth? (beak edges and inside of mouth pink and free of discharge, lesions, trachea clear and fully visible or any paleness, dry membranes, swellings around beak edges or
in mouth, any clumps of yellowish or whitish growths inside mouth, any seeds or objects
lodged, any sour or other odor from mouth, weak jaw muscles)

A sick pigeon will fluff out it’s feathers as if it is cold. The patient hides perhaps under a park bench or in a doorway, and is seen on the ground at dusk when its flock has flown up high to roost. The droppings may appear green and watery, and signs of bullying injuries by other birds may be visible around the head. An injured pigeon may be in shock, limping badly, drooping a wing or bleeding.

Pigeons suffer from a variety of ailments , the most common being the Paramyxo virus and throat canker. The virus causes birds to appear fluffed up, unbalanced or dizzy. They may walk in circles, throw seeds in the air when eating, hang their heads upside down (star gazing) or have fits.

Canker or Trichomoniasis seems most common in young pigeons. It is detected by a swollen throat containing yellow/white button-like cheesy growths, wet or bad smelling discharge from the beak and unwillingness to fly. Depending on the severity, it may be very difficult for the bird to eat or breath. This disease in young birds is fatal but can be treated with drugs such as flagyl (metronidazole) or spartrix (carnidazole). Crop-feeding may be necessary while healing is underway. Please do not attempt to scrape away these growths unless they are severely restricting breathing, as this may damage the lining of the throat. 

Droppings? (white and dark portions clearly defined, no odor // or discoloration,
runniness, excess fluid, odor)

hygiene. Wash hands after handling 

little bugs, like flat flies seem to crawl under her feathers. what are these?Those are pigeon flies .. actual name .. hippoboscid .. http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/livestock/pigeon_fly.htm

Pigeons make wonderful pets you might consider taking her inside at night and that way you could observe her better with the above concerns. 

Good luck and thanks again for helping her..

Andi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and thank you for rescuing this pigeon.

Andi has already given you some excellent information.

I just want to say that you need to keep the bird restrained inside a carrier and in a protected area when you are not home. I would not allow it to fly outside until it is completely better, but you can allow time inside.

The bird may have a canker growth inside the beak which will not allow it to close or and change the allignent of the beak. 
You need to treat the bird immediately if this is canker as it destroys tissues and organs. The growth on the knee joint may also be canker, or could be pox.

If you would like help with this bird, please check our resources link:

http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

What does the birds poop look like and how much is he/she eating per sitting?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Welcome to the forum.

If your pigeon is open mouthed breathing only after flying, that would be pretty normal. However, if she does it after she has been resting awhile then something could be wrong.

We have a young pigeon who began open mouthed breathing even while resting. We put her on a course of Baytril just to be safe but she, too, was loaded with mites and other crawly things. We initially sprayed her with Scalex, waited about a week and now we are placing a drop of Ivomec at the back of her neck every week for about 5 weeks. She is doing much better and I really believe much of the breathing problem came from the heavy mite infestation. 

I would allow her to fly only when you're home at least for awhile. Other times I would keep her in her carrier.


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

Can you tell me how warm it is where you have the Pijie? Pigeons can't perspire. Sometimes if they are over heated they will pant to dissapate heat.


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## skeKz (Oct 4, 2006)

thank you for the information. with it comes more questions. 
i have spent hours and hours with her and she seems to have no growths in side her mouth or on the beak. her alignment seems normal. could the breathing be from the heat of the day? she seem to do it more in the sun than anywhere else. For the most part she is very sedate and doesnt seem to open mouth breathe as much now that it is cooling down here a bit. she lives, for now, in a carrier out on the balcony so she is as cool as the day is. we have the more shady side, missing the afternoon sun. can anyone reccomend a cage that would be apprpriate to house her in? 

With regards to the infestation of mites and the hippoboscid etc. can i get ivomec or scalex easily at , say, a feed store? do these hippoboscid creatures always go for pigeons, even after being treated with medication? it's kind of interesting to me  do all pigeons have these insects as joy riders or is it only the sick ones? do i need to be concerned, due to her sitting on my shoulder or handling her, of cross infestations of any sort?

i was also wondering if a mite infestation might make her puff up a bit and every so often flap her wings without really going anywhere due to the iitching? im sure it must be uncomfortable and perhaps a reason for her constantly pecking and preening at herself. or is the flapping of wings more a sign of the fits associated with the the paramyxo virus? she does no stargazing. and walks fine/seems focused. she has really come a long way from the plucked look when i first encountered her. 

Her poop varies from a normal greyish slightly green ball with a white side to it, to a watery version of the above to a more greenish liquid mix to sometimes grey or green blob with water. it seems to vary from day to day but has gotten better since first finding her. is this a sign of infection or just stablization after being malnourished for so long. 

she has a home with me for as long as she wants. she seems to alwways want to be near or on my shoulder. she comes inside all the time, or wants to  ... one last question .. why does she get a bit fussy at night? she coos very loud and pecks at my hand much harder than early in the morning. is this normal?

Thanks again.. ive become very attached. again, hope you all don't mind the questions. im sure i will have more  

warm regards
-kevin


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## skeKz (Oct 4, 2006)

*P.s*

oops.. one more .. is it normal for pigeons to shake off, what looks like, white skin flakes all the time. she has gone through an amazing regrowth of her feathers. are these white flakes part of a normal sloughing process?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

skeKz said:


> oops.. one more .. is it normal for pigeons to shake off, what looks like, white skin flakes all the time. she has gone through an amazing regrowth of her feathers. are these white flakes part of a normal sloughing process?


Squeaks goes through that every so often...dry skin... I give him more Hemp and Safflower seeds. Also give him a bath, usually by putting him in the shower. I have also used a large kitty litter plastic pan filled 1/3 full. He splashes away and hops out when he's finished. 

In the past, I would prepare the pan and he did not want a bath. Now, I watch him and when he seems to want more than a drink from the cat's water dishes, I know he wants a bath. Works every time.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I believe you are right about the consistency of the droppings. A normal one should be firm, and brown/green with the white urates in the center and in the form of a drop of cookie dough. Stress, ilness, and the process of moulting will cause the droppings to vary and change, so long as it is not too watery and does not remain so for days at a time. 

It sounds like it has become attached to you...or is that the other way around...cool.

It will coo at night. They will do this at night as they are preparing for their night and is probably calling for you.

I have 6 outside in a pigeon coop, and last night I went into the house FIRST before I walked across the yard to "tuck them in" and I heard about it after I engaged my secuity system on the car, and my back room light went on. My senior bird, Tooter, began fussing up a storm. I went outside and then the others started up "talking" til I went and softly spoke to them, telling them it was bed time and time to go to sleep. I then pad locked the door and by the time I was half way to the house...it was nice and quiet. My wife Bev taught me this, and they EXPECT it too.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

skeKz said:


> oops.. one more .. is it normal for pigeons to shake off, what looks like, white skin flakes all the time. she has gone through an amazing regrowth of her feathers. are these white flakes part of a normal sloughing process?



Hi Kevin, 


As Feathers are growing out, they do so in a kind of 'tube'...as the Pigeon preens away the 'tube' part, the Feather is allowed to fan out and assume it's proper shape.

The silvery-white particles you will see accumulate where the Bird has been preening, are from this and are normal...and are not skin flakes.

Too, Pigeons and other Birds will sometimes do a sort of shake or brief shudder, and a virtual cloud of dust and preening particles can come off.

Lol...

All is well with these things...

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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