# Update on Kyle



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I recieved Kyle by being approached by two different Moderators at 911
Pigeon Alert in private message here at PT. I was given the particulars 
for the finder and asked if I would make contact. No rules were given
to me at that time. I made contact w/the finder of the bird who told
me that she had contacted the owner who said that he had plenty of
birds and "gifted" her w/this severely injured bird. We met and she gave
me the bird and hoped that he would be all right in my care as they really
loved him but had other committments in their life which kept them 
from taking this on at the time. They expressed how much they had
grown to love Kyle in the time that they had the bird and that they
hoped in the future that they might have one as a pet as this bird
was "so cool".

When I called Terry about the bird to describe the injuries, she asked me 
to take and post pictures, which I did. She also put me in contact w/a rehabber, I contacted a few others as well. After communicating about
Kyle in PM, Terry gave me permission to use my judgement where Kyle was
concerned and said that she trusted that I would make the right call, in so
many words. If it were not for Kyles' spirit, if there were other mitigating 
factors, I may have chosen a different path, but Kyle was right there at the
time so I made the choice for surgery. There was partial funding available,
we seemed to be there money wise and I went ahead w/arrangements.
Charis funded the last amount of the surgery on her card w/the understanding that this bird would have donations or that I would 
cover the remainder. 

Dr. Speer knew there was a limit on the funding and agreed to help Kyle 
within that guideline. He ended up eating about a third of the costs, and 
Charis and I between funding, hours and other expenses are certainly in the arrears. This is a bird that was given to me and that I wouldn't have taken on if I didn't intend to see his health crisis through to resolution including always having a home. I know for a fact that Charis wouldn't have it any other way. If, when he is recovered and stable, he needs a different placement situation, as he may well need, his needs will be number one.

Kyle has new bone growth on the leg w/the "U" pin and it is healing
nicely. He still doesn't want to use that foot but that is to be expected
because of the pin. This is the leg that the dead bone was removed from
so not insignificant that the sections of broken bone are showing signs of 
new growth.

There is still no need to repeatedly open the sutured wound for debriding
as there is no bacteria trapped inside or other problems w/the closure for
now. There was a consideration of secondary intention healing, this is still
on the table.

The break in Kyle's foot is showing no signs of new bone growth on the
other hand. The concern is that in the case of crushing injuries there can be 
vascular damage which results in areas at the injury not recieving blood supply. We remain vigil and are trying to be patient with the healing
process while being alert and observant to signs of deviation into non-viable
arenas which would raise the alerts.

He has some quirks in addition which may be simply from the incredible trauma
that s/he has been through. Kyle continues to be in my care as a rescue
that I have accepted custody for from the 2nd owner, being given custody
from the primary owner. 

I will continue to seek professional care and advice for his well being and
recovery.

fp


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

fp,

Thank you for the update on Kyle. Sounds like the soft tissue wounds on his body and the leg are healing as anticipated but he is not out of the woods on the foot due to possible circulatory damage. I'm going to think positive with two out of three problems on the mend and hold good thoughts for the foot to begin to show some response. You are doing a tremendous job with him. I wish I could be more help than just a cheering section, but alas I'm too far away. Please know you and Kyle are in my thoughts daily.

Margaret


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you for the update, FP. I know that it is still a bit of an uphill battle with Kyle, but thank you so very much for all you have done. Please keep us posted here, and if there is something you need that one of us might be able to provide, please let us know. Best of luck to you and Kyle!

For any that may be wondering .. yes .. FP called me about Kyle .. based on the verbal description of the injuries, I said .. give Kyle a day or two. After the pictures came through, it was a different story .. Kyle needed serious help and right away. I did also say that FP should make the call because the bird was right there. Now we are here with Kyle making his or her recovery .. a very long way from being euthanized which was likely in the beginning. Many thanks to FP for helping this bird.

Terry


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks for the update, FP.

We will continue to send positive thoughts to Kyle and hope that the foot will not give further problems but heal nicely.

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi fp,

I am glad things are improving for Kyle and am sending GOOD thoughts and prayers in regards to the foot.

Kyle is quite lucky to have you as his caregiver and Dr. Speers as his doctor. The seriousness of his situation required not only the skills of a well qualified avian Dr. but a skilled surgeon. I firmly believe it was his destiny to reach your hands and be enabled the best care and recovery for optimum and quality life.  

Thank you for the update.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Great update, FP. So glad he's hanging in there.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Thank you, fp. 

Give Kyle a pat from all of us (somewhere that isn't an "owie" ).


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I, too, am adding my THANKS for the comprehensive update and explanation. Sometimes, the "iceberg" will only show the tip...at the beginning.

Will look forward to POSITIVE updates on Kyle, and, along with the PT membership, Squeaks and I also send

LOVE, HUGS AND HEALING THOUGHTS TO AID IN HIS RECOVERY... 

Shi & Squeaks


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## color guy (Sep 24, 2005)

*Kyle receiving care...*



TAWhatley said:


> For any that may be wondering .. yes .. FP called me about Kyle .. based on the verbal description of the injuries, I said .. give Kyle a day or two. After the pictures came through, it was a different story .. Kyle needed serious help and right away. I did also say that FP should make the call because the bird was right there.
> 
> Terry


Just so everyone is clear, the 911 PA group did NOT authorize any cost to be incurred during any or all care provided to Kyle. Terry is an administrator in the 911 PA group, and as such she can make the call to allow or authorize someone outside the realm of the group to give care... but even as an administrator, she can NOT authorize the expenditure of funds where the 911 PA group is liable.

The 911 PA group policy dictates that any and all care provided to a pigeon they are invovled with is at the expense and liability of the person requesting that care. That is usually the finder of the pigeon, or someone the finder turns the pigeon over to.

The 911 PA group does NOT offer medical advice, but they do have care givers within the group who are authorized to provide medical care, including the kind of care provided to Kyle, at no cost or expense to the finder of the bird.


-s2-


Steve Souza
911 PA legal administrator


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Kyle's very complicated surgical procedure was provided by a world class
avian vet who is a certified avian vet on two contintents, I have yet to see
anyone from 911 w/the same credentials step forward. Be that as it may,
I was authorized as the new owner of the bird to provide said care. I do not
now, nor have I in the past, ever had any contractual agreements w/911 PA.
Nor will I ever respond to a downed bird call from 911 again. This has been 
nothing more than plain and simple harrassment, in exchange and for what end?

I have never contacted 911 PA regarding reimbursement for medical services
provided nor paid vacation leave that has been used on his medical behalf nor
do I ever intend to as Kyle is my responsibility.

This entire detour regarding my right to help a bird that was given to me is 
distasteful at its' least.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> This has been nothing more than plain and simple harrassment in exchange for what end?


For saving a pigeon's life, hopefully. You responded out of compassion for an injured pigeon which would certainly have died without your help and Dr Speers' expertise. 

Cynthia


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

How is Klye today? Hope you get that dresser drawer back soon  because he's continuing to recover.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Enough is Enough !! It's Time To Leave It Be.*



color guy said:


> Just so everyone is clear, the 911 PA group did NOT authorize any cost to be incurred during any or all care provided to Kyle. Terry is an administrator in the 911 PA group, and as such she can make the call to allow or authorize someone outside the realm of the group to give care... but even as an administrator, she can NOT authorize the expenditure of funds where the 911 PA group is liable.
> 
> The 911 PA group policy dictates that any and all care provided to a pigeon they are invovled with is at the expense and liability of the person requesting that care. That is usually the finder of the pigeon, or someone the finder turns the pigeon over to.
> 
> ...


Steve,
This is unbelieveable. Never at any time was 911 asked to be responsible for Kyle's medical expenses. The only one that ever made mention of that was Ellen and we have ignored her. 
Truely,and with all due respect, it's time to just give it a rest.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

What a negative post by the lawyer. I am just appalled.

I was not able to send much, but helped in a small way. 

Though I am glad to see Kyle has improved,and am grateful for people like fp and charis, I am ashamed of Steve.

oh, I better watch what I say, huh?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

pigeonperson said:


> FP, Charis and Victor. I have to tell you that I have a great deal of respect for you. You have the courage of your convictions and I admire you for that.


Back at ya!
Blessings


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Let's also respect the intention of this thread and the thread-starter which is not to discuss politics but to provide updates on this little bird. Let's not make this thread "go south" as the previous one did.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

fp,
You are to be commended for all that you have done to help Kyle.  

I was out of town when you originally posted about him. 
I did, however, read the original thread when I returned & have read this one & I must say, it's incredibly sad how your efforts to help Kyle have been somewhat shadowed by Ellen & Steve's comments. JMO

You are one very *special person* in my book. 

Cindy


*Kyle
"We want to send our best wishes to you for a speedy & full recovery."

Mikko, Pij'ette, Sadie, Sam, Rae Charles, Malio, Little Dove & Foster*. ​


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This thread was started for the purpose of updates on the pigeon, not for yet more arguments and digressions and "who's to blame" whoever they be from.

Let's keep it for its intended purpose.

John


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If anyone makes anymore comments that provoke controversy, or change the subject, or say anything negative towards fp.... I will personally put them on notice...I certainly don't want to have to close this thread......as it is to be about Kyle only.





If anyone has a problem with that, contact me by PM.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I cannot believe what I am reading here. What happened???? 

Oh please tell me FP is not under scrutiny for not denying a little bird (who told her he wants to live) the best care that she could find for him.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Fp, you did an outstanding job is saving Kyle's life. Thank you and bless everybody who helped saving this bird.
Please, everybody who has nothing nice to say about the situation, keep your opinions to yourselves. 

Reti


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I too have been following Kyle's story and am disappointed the other thread had to be removed - because there was so much information in it. I am very grateful for the good, kind souls out there who are willing to go so far to help another creature, People like you make the world a better place. Wings and fingers crossed here for that little guy and please keep up the good work.


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

FP, Bless you for everything you've done for Kyle. I am sorry I have not posted early to express my admiration of you and everyone on this board who's helped Kyle. We adopted a lovebird who ended up being very ill and I know the difficulty in making choices. I do however know that the right vet is essential in serious injury and am so happy Kyle has an exceptional one. I will continue to hold Kyle in my heart with the hope that he recovers quickly.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

FP, you have done an extraordinary job in taking care of Kyle. He's run through 9 out of 10 of his pigeon lives here, and an extremely lucky bird to have been taken into your care.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi fp,
You probably can't hear us since we are on opposite coasts, but I want you to know that Jesse, Bob & I have been applauding your efforts. 

Kyle is being remembered in my prayers. He's blessed to have come into your care & to have been treated by Dr. Speers.
Thank you to everyone involved with helping this little pigeon.

May God bless all of you!

Phyll


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

An update on Kyle and the hawk attacked feral who were both surgerized.
It has been definitively hard on both of them. The power of the hawk or falcons' talons to tear, puncture and otherwise do damage is not to be underestimated.

Feral:

After about a week and a half at the vet's, and two surgeries later, I went in
and picked this poor pij up. Missing quite a bit of feathers from the surgery,
blind in the right eye, and with some wounds left open for healing through
second intention, all in all not out of the dark yet. This a.m. I brought the
feral back to the Montclair Vet Hosp. because the crop and neck had become so swollen and tight and inside the mouth there was some white exudate about the consistency of block cream cheese or tooth paste coming up from the throat and beginning to obscure the airway opening. Though not the "primary intention", the neck drained during examination and is back here
w/me now. We are hoping the remaining wounds will close on their own and
am keeping the wounds clean and coated w/Silvadene (Silver Sulfadiazine).
We touch base beginning of next week in terms of progress, and if needed, 
stitches will be given to close the remaining wounds. 

Kyle:

Kyle had no objections moving out of the bureau drawer and into a very
large carrier, I'm sure he must have felt like the 'sky was falling' in the 
hospital carrier from the vet's office, lol. He is self feeding and watering and
though not thrilled w/the med routine, suffers along w/it to make me, the good Dr. Speer, and many others I might add, happy.  He's being a good
sport and is walking pretty much exclusively on the broken foot these days.
Speer warned me that he wouldn't be using the foot to the broken leg due to 
the "U" pin. His wound is still healing but remains dry and needing no debriding. His environment gets cleaned three times a day to prevent him 
from laying in feces for extended periods of time. Most of the time, through
such frequent changes and because he doesn't move a whole heck of a lot,
he isn't laying in feces, thank god. We have a follow up appointment this
coming week to remove the pins on Friday and until then he continues
w/Cipro and Itraconazole.

Rooms at the Inn:

Only bureau drawers remain  ....I released two young birds this week only
to pick up another compound fracture in my travels. This bird went to Dr.
Schuchman as s/he will need to have the wing amputated. I am blessed that
there are several Avian Vets to share the rescues amongst.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the updates, FP. It sounds like all is coming along as well as could be expected. I can't even imagine the level of care that you have had to provide for Kyle and the others. My hat's off to you!

Terry


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

fp, 

Thank you for the update. I am so glad to hear how Kyle is doing as well as the feral. You really have your hands chock full.

Margaret


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the wonderful update on Kyle and Mr. feral. You've done and amazing job in nursing them back to health. Thank you and Dr.S. What a great team.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

MANY THANKS, fp, for the updates!

I was wondering how Kyle was doing. We are all sure pulling for him!!

Your other rescues sound like they are will do well too. At least, I hope so!

Squeaks and I send LOVE, HUGS, SCRITCHES and HEALING THOUGHTS TO ALL...including YOU...especially the LOVE and HUGS part! We sure need you to stay healthy!

Shi & Squeaks


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the update, fp. I am so glad that all is going well.

Cynthia


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

You sure have your hands full, FP! Thank you for the excellent updates. Kyle sure is a trooper. I'm so happy to hear he's able to eat and drink on his own. Hope the hawk-caught feral will recover, too. It sounds like he's had a very rough time of it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Many thanks for the 'positive' update, fp.  

You, & *your* team, have done, & continue to do, a super job.  
Thanks to all of you.

AND, a *special* thanks to you, Kyle, & your sweet feral friends for being such incredible troopers.  

Cindy


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## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

thanks for looking after Kyle and thanks for the update


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a wonderful update on Kyle and glad to hear the HA feral is holding its own.

I'm sure Kyle enjoys being waited on "hand and foot" so to speak.  He is a real trooper and SO fortunate to have first class care.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Loved the news bulletin. Glad to hear Kyle has moved from the intensive care ward to a regular bed  Sounds like you need a bigger dresser since you keep coming across birdies in need! FP -- you are a blessing! 

Someone told me they were just doing what St. Francis expected of them -- I'd say St. Francis is definitely sending needy ones your way and that you are doing the Lord's work.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Someone told me they were just doing what St. Francis expected of them -- *I'd say St. Francis is definitely sending needy ones your way and that you are doing the Lord's work.*


Amen...on that one. by the way....his feast day is this Thursday.


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