# found a white pigeon



## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi 

I have found a white pigeon which is with black color eyes in a busy city.
The bird cannot fly so I picked him up & took back to home for taking care of him.
2nd day I did my best to clean him up by warm water with little soap & let him have a shower.
After the shower notice his once side wing have wound look like dried blood but not sure if it was skin
because the bird is young. May I know if the bird have wound how to heal him & how will I know if it is bite
by some animals such as cat & if is infected?

It is aggressive and trying his best to fly even in the big box. I notice it is drinking a lot of fresh water without salt in a small glass & now we changed to tap water so that he will not have a habit of boiled water after we let him go & he eat seeds when hungry. The poops are with mixed water & dark green round poops looks like seed weeds.

These 2 days we haven’t enough information that we should put a stick for him to stand inside. But now will make one for him.

Hope you can help me & guide me.

Million thanks
Ken


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi Ken...it sounds like you amy have found a king pigeon. King pigeons shouldn't be let go as they don't do well on their own in the wild.
Why do you think he's young?
Can you post a picture of the pigeon? A picture of the injury would be helpful as well.
Pigeons enjoy a brick to roost on. They like flat surfaces rather than perches that are round.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

thank you for your reply.
I will post the picture tonight asia time. 

With thanks
Ken


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'll look for it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this bird.

PLEASE follow these instructions first:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello friends,

Above are the photos.
Me & my wife also notice a wound inside is wing red color but no blood when he trying to open his wings and jump out of box we can see the wound.

Another thing is we notice a fly attached to his wings which is moving every where inside and outside on his body even after warm soap bath is still there.
I have read the details about the fly which was on this site but no idea how to remove the fly.

Last thing is I notice small tiny black feather lies on his body have seen about 3 - 4.
Maybe it is got effected from out side some dirty nest or places. He some times keeps itching on his body & I can see he feel uncomfortable. About this if I use bleach mix water let him bath will he drink & die?

Will those fly and lies will bring him more diseases on his wound?
How shall I do? 

I bought apple vinegar to let him drink mix with water as well.

Please guide me.

Defintly I will check above link too.

But hope faster the better to help the bird.

thanks 
ken


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

This is a young bird.

Those are pigeon flies, and the small holes in the feathers are from mites and lice.

You can get a perethryn (or Scatt) based bird spray to kill those parasites.

if this bird has been attacked by a predator it will need an antibiotic asap.

Is he eating?

It is most crucuial this bird is hand fed and watered if it has not eaten.

You can hand feed frozen peas (defrosted and drained and warmed).


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

He is eating bird seeds only and drinking a lot water by itself & keeps moving here & there. Wings keep flapping like want to jump out from the box & sometimes he sit like a duck with legs down, if I cover the carton with no light he sit & rest.

Can I still mix Apple vinegar into water let him drink ?

I don't know if it is attacked by predators. 
If the pigeon body contains any of above insects will this come out from the carton & move around in my house such as carpets?





The poops are green color droppings & watery not white at all. From the above photo the newspaper is almost wet & green droppings everywhere but not white at all.What can it be? but so far no weight loss & aggressive doesnt look like sick but only sleepy sometime.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken...do keep in mind, that if the bird is covered with no light, the bird won't eat because birds can't see in the dark.
The sleepy acting behavior is very likely a sign that he is starving or ill. You see, birds pretend to be okay, even when they are not. In the wild, a bird that acts sick is singled out by a predator.
The aggressive behavior is may actually be what baby pigeons do when they want to be fed.
I can tell from the pictures that the pigeon isn't eating. If he was eating, the droppings would be solid and firm with a white cap.
I agree that antibiotics are in order as there is an injury.

You will need to start hand feeding him ASAP so he is getting enough nourishment.
Here are some pre-written instructions.




If you are seeing bright green poop, it could be the bird isn't eating enough on his own and may need to be hand fed. It also could be ill. Often the young birds will try to eat the seed and so folks assume they are eating when they really aren't.

__________________


You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 40-60 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

An additional suggestion...try putting as screen over the top of the box so the bird isn't in the dark.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi here is the photo of poops & the box from the top.


















He drinking alot of water and eat only small amount of seeds, maybe need feed?
yesterday tried to use my hand to feed seed while he was in the box & he was playing with me by hitting is mouth & not eating any seeds.

Eyes closing & opening only when got nothing to do after he tried jumping & cannot escape.Night time in the dark he is sleeping & moving his feets can here is feet sounds.

Day time we have enough light for him inside the box.

Hong Kong weather is very humidity every time above 90% can this be the cause of lice & insects on his feathers?

If he has lice on this body is it ok for me to use bare hands to hold him & put him on my lap with wrap outside?

As per other brother said i should buy a spray to kill the pest. 

how about vinegar inside his water should i add some today?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...you can go to a pet store and buy a lice spray for birds. *It must be for birds.*


*he was playing with me by hitting is mouth & not eating any seeds.
*
The above means he's hungry and wants you to feed him, He is very young and doesn't 
understand how to eat on his own. His poop doesn't look good.clearly, he's not getting enough food.
Please be more concerned with getting food into him than putting apple cider vinegar in the water.


Please follow these hand feeding instructions.

You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 40-60 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.
________________


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Done by hand feeding him green peas but he keep struggling. Anyway I have make him about 20peas tonight & notice is pooh become white but not much pooh & liquid is more.
Another news is the fly on his body I have done my very best to throw that fly out from the window. that fly was very strong & still survive after I slapped her damm face many times. But finally she lose & gone out of window.

I would like to ask if the bird can stay happy in humidity weather because day time no body at home & we cannot turn on the ac but windows will be open for fresh air .

May I know how old he look like ?

Thanks
Ken


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It will take a while for the peas to move through his body.

The watery poop you noticed is because he hadn't eaten.

Of course he will struggle because he doesn't understand the process. Soon enough, he will figure out what you are doing and he will cooperate and them start eating on his own. Do keep seed in the box, while you are gone and maybe he will practice picking seed up with his beak.
Pigeon flies are very hard to get rid of so do buy some spray.
I think it's fine to leave the window open as long as there is no way he can get out because at this point, he wouldn't survive, for many different reasons.

20 peas is a good start, but not nearly enough to sustain him. Next feeding go for 40-50. I've learned to pop 40 in just a couple of minutes. 
To me, he looks to be 3 1/2 weeks old. I think he's very adorable. I also think you are a wonderful person for helping him and taking the time to learn how to take care of him properly.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi thank you for your reply
You are fast , do you mean we don’t need wait for peas to get inside with gap between each peas of 10secs enabling his pea to go inside properly or we can keep putting inside his mouth without time gap? Yesterday took us 40-45mins more to put in 20peas.. 

3 to 4 weeks old with this size pigeon? They size grow very fast?
Is this King Pigeon?
Will buy the spray after work today & please do I need to spray onto his head , face?

Thanks
Ken


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Bought this spray finally below is the one
http://www.onlinepetwarehouse.com.au/Birds/Bird-Lice-Mites-Wormers/Aristopet-Bird-Mite-and-Lice-Spray.html

Bath him before spray , now after spray to his whole body he feel very scared & as soon as i put him back in his box he start sleeping , opening eye , then sleep again same going on. I wonder if the spray is too strong for him maybe the smell? Becaue the time is 10pm here after we finished spraying except his head . Head we used our finger to put some on 
it.



Went to shop they guy offered me real pigeon food which is bigger size compare to mine one with small round size seeds. He said those seeds are hard to digest because the skin on seeds. But special one for Pigeons are totally different, so i bought one packet & see if he like.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken2882 said:


> Hi thank you for your reply
> You are fast , do you mean we don’t need wait for peas to get inside with gap between each peas of 10secs enabling his pea to go inside properly or we can keep putting inside his mouth without time gap? Yesterday took us 40-45mins more to put in 20peas..
> 
> 3 to 4 weeks old with this size pigeon? They size grow very fast?
> ...



Just put the pea to the back of the throat. Then let him close his beak and swallow it. Then put in another, and do the same thing. It only takes a few seconds for him to swallow.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't answer your question about the spray. No. Please don't spray his head. Keep it away from his face altogether. The bugs will mostly go under wings and tail. Spray there well, and his back and tummy.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thank you Jay.
It looks like the spray is working. This morning notice some lices dead on his feathers and not moving.Do you think I should bath him tonight and spray one more time?
I have also sprayed is surroundings and the carton too.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken...I would wait to bathe him.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Do I need to spray him second time without bath?
May I know if need to clean the dead lice before spray?

Regarding the poops now can see little white solid.

thanks
Ken


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't spray him again unless I saw that he still had bugs. Do the directions tell you for how long the spray is effective? Just check him over well, and let the stuff work for a few days. Then he can bathe. Nice to hear the droppings are looking better.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Jay
Directions not say anything but I will check his body again.
White droppings just few white but most a green and watery after I came back.
Will give him peas again now. He looks boriig in the box, they like to play round things?
Should I give him ping pong ball?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you get him a hand mirror and attach it to the box? I buy the kind that have a hole in the handle so I can put wire through the hole and attach to the cage. You could punch a hole through the side of the box and wire the mirror so the pigeon can see his image. It might help him feel less alone. Male pigeons, in particular, like to admire themselves.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Bros,

Just checked his feathers the colors of feathers looks better now & lices has gone by grace of god. So I did not spray him today & neither bath him. Will wait your guidelines when to bath him. Yesterday was 1st day spray.

Feeded him peas already & he was co-operating dont need much force like before.
Since now is 3rd day with him whenever I want to catch him from the box he moves backward like moonwalk or flap the wings. It look like I am still stranger for him.
As you said he just 3-4 weeks old which is like a baby mind & baby feathers. I notice he does not have feathers in many places under the wings maybe looks still growing.

When I put him back in the carton first job he do is big drop of water but no poops.
I remove his newspaper everyday so that he feel comfortable in clear place.
I notice today the poops become dark green or grey little solid but still lot of water & some places small amount of white drops. Hope the situation can change better by his grace. If I am doing anything wrong please let me know.

Mirror trick is very good idea will try that.

Should I stick my face photo inside so that he recognize me as a friend & not stranger.
Haha just joking.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You are funny!

Check and see if you can buy a medication, at the pharmacy, called metronidazol or flagyl. I think it would be a good idea to treat him for canker.
Did you find a brick to put in the box?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

HI Bro

What mean canker? I have gone thru
http://www.pigeonmania.com/trichomoniasis-canker-in-pigeons/
Why do you think he have canker?

But still not understand.

Break I will need find one which is clean enough.

You are very kind
Ken


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken2882 said:


> HI Bro
> 
> What mean canker? I have gone thru
> http://www.pigeonmania.com/trichomoniasis-canker-in-pigeons/
> ...




Hi Ken. Stress brings on canker, and oftentimes a found bird has been through a lot of stress. Especially the young birds. So often, as a precaution we will treat them for that.

Also a pigeon with canker will drink a lot, and can have watery poops.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Normally pharmacy can get medicine?
Will there be any side effects?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken2882 said:


> Normally pharmacy can get medicine?
> Will there be any side effects?



In some countries, you can buy it at the pharmacy. I don't know if you can there.
There could be side effects but it is unlikely if she receives the correct dose.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Sorry above mentioned medicine is special for birds or man?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's for people and used for animals too.
if you can find a 200mg pill or smaller, that would be great. If you can find some, please don't give any to her until we help you with a dose.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Any one of this metronidazol or flagyl is ok?
I will go and find today every corners in Hong Kong until I get it.

Do you think the carton make him have stress? or a cage would be better?
Because he is too small I don't know if or when would be suitable time to release him freedom, how long will he sit in the same carton or should get him nice cage first.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes either is okay.They are the same drug.

I cage would be nice. Pigeons like a cage that is long, rather than one that is tall.The size that works well for pigeons is 30 inches long by 18 inches high by 18 inches wide. The one I use is called a flight cage for Finches.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Bro
Just bought the medicine but not every pharmacy sell this I dont know why.
The one sold to me does not have box but sell me per pc 
1HKD per pc
Here is the photo of 200Mg









Please see the photo as I dont know if this is real or fake.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi I have bought another one from reliable seller which was imported from England.
Please advise how to give him?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you mean you bought more metronidazole?
Do you happen to have a scale that measures food in grams?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> In some countries, you can buy it at the pharmacy. I don't know if you can there.
> There could be side effects but it is unlikely if she receives the correct dose.


maybe he can find the medication for fish at a pet store?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> maybe he can find the medication for fish at a pet store?



He has the medication already. He got another one too. I've been waiting for Ken to tell us about the second medication he bought and if he has a scale.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken2882 said:


> Hi I have bought another one from reliable seller which was imported from England.
> Please advise how to give him?



Is the one you bought from a reliable seller also 200 mg?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello 

Please find here photo of 1st & 2nd Pills (Reliable supplier)
2nd one is 200mg & the size is bigger than 1st one which was very small & looks fake 
you can see the difference from the photo









Sorry I don't have kitchen scale.
I have checked the government website in Hong Kong for Authorised dealers

2nd is the same one as per the website of pharmacy
http://202.181.245.86/pharmacy/index.php/client/detail/id/1143

Here is link of authorized dealer in Hong Kong& the box also same as per the photo.
http://www.actavis.com.hk/en/products/METRONIDAZOLE.htm


Please advise


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Some photos of recent poops for your ref


















Almost 3 days after spray should he take warm water bath to remove dead insects from feathers?

Thanks
Ken


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken..give the pigeon !/4 of a pill, after you have fed her, for 7 days. If she doesn't have food in her crop, it may make her vomit.

If you aren't seeing any more bugs, I think it would be fine to let her have a warm bath.She probably will bathe herself if you put a tub of warm water in the kitchen sink, splash your fingers in it so she can get the idea and give her the option of getting in to bathe.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thank you for the reply.
What do you think about his poops from above photo?
This pigeon is male or female?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Some poops look okay some look wattery.

If you could please put a fresh newspaper liner down and allow her to poop and then post the picture before she walks thru them, it might be clearer for us to see.
Thank you.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken2882 said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> What do you think about his poops from above photo?
> This pigeon is male or female?


I agree with Treesa.
The poop does not look normal from what I can tell.
It's difficult for me to tell the sex of a pigeon unless I can see the pigeon in person.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

1/4 pill we have feeded him already after the food.
He does not like to eat corns as well so we need to hand feed him too.

He/she afraid too much from us , each time I want to catch him he make some cute voice for help likes he/she is afraid but so far no single noise from him if left alone in the box.

What type poops is normal?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Normal poops are round and firmer, dark brown to dark green, with a white cap on top of the dropping. The color varies depending on what the baby has been eating.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Charis

"Ken..give the pigeon 1/4 of a pill, after you have fed her, for 7 days"
Sorry I just want to make clear my self. Do I need to give continuously 1/4 pill for total 7 days? from 3 June to 10 June? each day 1/4 pill right?
Please confirm

thanks
Ken


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes Ken, that's what she means. Give your bird 1/4 pill for 7 days. Feed him before giving the pill, so he has some food in him when you give the pill.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for reply.
Will it be too strong for baby bird for 7days?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well ...you will keep us updated as to how the baby is doing, so if there is a problem, we can guide you.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Today his poops looks solid & not much watery with white on top.
Have feeded him with food then 1/4 pill - 2nd Day.
Will try snap a photo of his fresh poops later & post here.

A young bird how long does it need to fully cover with feathers? He does not have feathers in some places on his body & under wings. But today he flyed higher about 5FT in bathroom. I feel he can go more higher.
Still he don't like to be my friend.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It takes time for a bird to trust you. The feathers under the wings will come in, in another couple of weeks. Where else is he missing feathers?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Jay & Charis Good Day

Only those parts missing feathers
Please find fresh photo after 2nd day pill & advise.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'd say the poop definitely is improving. Keep giving the medication. Great job!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wow! Is definitely looking better. Yes, keep up with the meds. I agree with Charis.........You are doing a great job. Thanks for the update.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thank you for your reply. I will do my best.
Yesterday let him 1 hour to play with water but he didn't want & just standing looking the glass door for escaping , so I not force him. Finally he didn't bath .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's young and probably doesn't even know what it's for. Young ones will bathe faster if they can watch the others bathing. You can encourage him by splashing the water a bit with your hand, but it will still take a while for him to get the idea. You may have to put him in a small amount of warm water and wet him.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Please find above photos after 3rd day treat of Pills.

Do I need to feed him today 4th Day Pills?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...please give day 4.

I see seeds on the paper. The problem is that they are mixed with the poop and so if the pigeon should eat them, he would be eating poop too. That wouldn't be good. Can you put seed in a small dish and one that's several inches deep?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

No dear I have bought him nice food & drink holders on 2nd day he came.
The seed you are seeing he is naughty & picked out which ever he dont like to eat & mostly are corn seeds.

But I force feed him the corns.
We clean with warm water his food holders & also the newspaper change every day & use alcohol to clean the sides of the cartons too. So that he can live in clean place as a guest in my house.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I love that you wrote this and that you feel this way about your pigeon rescue
....*So that he can live in clean place as a guest in my house.
*

The food dishes you bought him are just perfect. Some pigeons do have a tendency to fling the seed about.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes Ken, they do look much better, but if you don't finish the whole treatment with the pills, the illness will come back on him, just like when we don't finish our pills. He needs to take it for the whole 7 days. You are doing a great job.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Good Day
Please find pics of this morning after 5th Pills last night.

















Kindly give your comments.

Today will be 6th day & tomorrow is last day/
He keep flapping his wings everyday with his power like he want to fly out & feeling boring
Do you think he can fly to sky now??
In HK treating or keeping them are illegal & I dont know where to find him place to try him. But I know the gardens the place where all pigeons gathers together.

What do you advise or he still young to go out?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do finish the medicine.


Are there other pigeons, in wild flocks there, that look like your rescue?Your pigeon doesn't look like a street pigeon to me.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No he doesn't look feral. He looks like he came from someones loft or pet.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Jay & Charis

The story was like this
The area where I work the 2 opposite residental builds which is close to each other.
From bottom if see up I can see many pigeons flying from 1 building to another keep circling among this 2 buildings for many many years because I work in 3 commercial building which is just 200 meters from those 2 buildings. I also noticed most a grey & 2 are white pigeons.

But I do not know which floor is the main feeder & owner in any of this 2 building.
I am sure this baby pigeon came fell down from there. But in Hong Kong is illegal now.
So I dont know if I can find the owner but I try to locate & ask some one & hope they can take him back to his mother & friends so that he have freedom of flying like others there. What are your opinons?

Attached updated photo after 7 pill. Please take alook.


















Now he make some baby sound when I am trying to move my hand on top of him & he looks still scary but not much as before.

thanks
Ken


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

white pigeons do occur in feral flocks, The gene that causes plain white pigeons ( recessive white ) does pop up from time to time, Being recessive it can be carried along hidden for generations until two birds carrying the gene pair up, Then they will produce a ratio of 1 in 4 plain white birds, If two plain white birds happened to pair up they would only even produce plain whites.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken...I think what you are thinking of a frightened on his part may actually be excited to see you.

That's interesting, Evan.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he is a baby so if it were me, I would keep him as my pet. I like the way you put holes in the side of the box to use the bird feeders.. good tip.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi friends thanks for replying
He is making cute baby sound when I try to touch him & use his one wing to slap me on my hand then move backward. 

Today office hour went to the near by 3 buildings roof & notice a lot of pigeons from grey to black , diff color eyes & very big in size. I checked everywhere & cannot find where they come from & the loft. Asked building securities they said some residents do feed them from the windows outside. But no body knows where they come from & too many.

I am not sure if my bird can fly now & if save to let him go to with wild pigeons because me and my wife feel sorry to him when he is flapping wings inside the big box & looking very boring & we don't have place for him to play or fly in apartment.

My house is fully decor but very small in size and carpet in the living room. So I am worry if he poops than is the big problem for us.

Checked on internet some say to thigh his wings not to let him fly & then let him walk in house for 30mins to familiar with your place. What do you advice about this? Shall I let him walk in corridor from kitchen to my bed room & keep cleaning his poops from behind Can he jump?

I will find a chance to drive to a quiet greenery park & let him try to fly but just in case he gone & not come back shall I leave or wait him come back?

Some say I should not let him fly alone otherwise hawk can get him?

Sorry forgot to mention that newspaper is good inside the carton & to easy remove everyday but worst is the newspaper color which comes out & is already part on his chest feathers which looks ugly after he sit on top if wet. Warm water cannot remove the color.
White feathers become yellowish now.

Please teach me. thanks
Ken


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I would not release the bird. He is not ready. He needs to be flying well indoors first, before you even think about releasing him.

And when the time comes, it would be best to release him with a group of other youngsters who also are currently in captivity, and not to release him by himself.

The bird may be domestic, and not even qualify as a feral to be released.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> white pigeons do occur in feral flocks.....


It seems to be very regional. This pigeon looks like a feral to me, but that's because a quarter of my feral flock in NYC are white. However, when I visit my sister in Seattle, I hardly see any white ferals there. In some places (some cities in China, Spain) all the ferals are white only.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello Please find the picture of poops of today.

















Once or twice a day he will just poops out water example after we tried to touch or play with him.

From my previous pictures the seeds he select and eat the small round ones. The Corns & other bigger size he wont eat but taking them out. I feel it is very waste if he is not eating all but selections for small ones. How can we make him eat all?

How often do we need to throw the old seeds?

Thanks


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Stress can cause watery droppings,so it would be normal for him to have them after being handled.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's young, and they often start with the smaller seeds. The larger ones are probably harer for him to swallow at this age. He will get used to the larger ones in time. Pigeons usually eat what they prefer and throw the rest, but if you leave it there, he will get used to eating them. It would be better if you could fix up a feeder that he couldn't easily throw the seeds from. That way, you could leave them longer to see if he will eventually try them. But if he throws them all over and they mix in with his poops then you really want to remove them.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Before he used to move back & want to fly when i put my hand inside.
Now he is coming forward to me & slap me with wings like Samurai. 
If I hold seeds on hand he wont eat but use his mouth to hit me on my fingers so that the seeds can drop & he immediately eat. If I don't give him seeds & move my hand forward he will follow my hand & use his sword(wings) to slap me

Yesterday night first time he make some noise if we switch off light at about 12am but he was not sleeping and making baby noise. then we got scared why suddenly like this. After sometime return the light & then off he went sleep.
What could be the problem?

Usually what time they need sleep & wake up, how many hours sleep healthy for them?

Can his nails cut our skin?
I feel it can hurt our arm

Thanks
Ken


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

It's a good sign that he's wing slapping you - it means he feels comfortable. Feral youngsters who associate me with food will often peck my finger when they are hungry and want to eat. Pigeon go to sleep when it gets dark and wake up when it gets light again - so that's more than 12 hours in the winter and less in the summer. They need all this time to get a proper sleep and having light keeps them up. If you are up late you can cover his enclosure with a dark cloth to block out the light. Loud noise can also prevent them from getting a restful night. He can't do much to you with his nails or his beak. He can scratch you a bit with his nails if he sits on on your arm, but those will be very minor scratches.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Members on this forum really awesome, appreciate for your kindness.

today while refilling the seeds from the packet I have notice small amount of something like sand & small type of insects walking inside somelike ant but not and overall just 2 types i noticed inside. When I use the spoon to refill those small insects comes out together to his feeder. If he eat harmful to him?

I didn't notice this before or can I use water to clean it then give him wet seeds is ok for him?

Do you have same problem issue with seeds?

I bought in bird shop 10HKD per packet last time. 
We cannot get high quality one for pigeon here, others those all for parrots which are most famous here


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There shouldn't be bugs in the feed. It should be clean. The bugs will eat the grain inside the shells. Not really good for him. Better to keep it in a tightly sealed plastic container. *Throwing it in the freezer if you have room for a few days will probably kill any insect eggs that may be in the bag so they won't hatch.*

I didn't mean to do this with this buggy seed. You should get rid of it. What I meant, and should have been more clear, was when you buy feed, before it gets bugs crawling around, if you can freeze it for a few days it will often make bugs not hatch. I wouldn't feed buggy seed to my birds. I have thrown seed like that out, or returned it to where I bought it.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Jay is right - the bugs will eat the inside of the seed so it looks like a whole seed but is actually only an empty or half-empty shell. These kinds of seeds are usually stale too, because the holes allow moisture in. Plus the bugs also leave a brown dust behind which are their feces - not great for your pigeon. If it's very badly infested or smells stale, I wouldn't use it.

Until you find decent quality seed mix for birds maybe you can mix some human grade grains and seeds. You can include peas, lentils, wheat, barley, popcorn, brown rice, oats, sunflower seeds, mustard seeds, sesame seeds, crushed raw peanuts, etc.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I will take precautions about the seeds & visit the store tonight if have bugs in new one or because of the house humid temp.

I will keep the seeds in glass bottle & then in the refrigerator in normal drawer & not frozen drawer.

Can I keep it inside all the time & feed him when need it? Or need to remove to warm it little before give him?

By the way how do I know if he effected by those bugs inside his body so that I can keep high precautions.

I don't have much seeds left so I selected clean ones & kill the bugs on white towel & then cleaned the seeds with water. Poor him still look hungry today.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Actually...you can keep the seeds in the freezer. Just take them out when you need to fill his dish. If he is going to get sick, he will probably get a very runny poop and may be fluffed and quiet. I think he will be ok though.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Dear Charis

You mean they can eat cold seeds right?

I saw your photo album of your pigeon inside your house.  Very nice.
You keep how many pigeons? the loft inside your house or outside?
How often you let them walk around or fly? 
Do the poops contain anything that can effect the furniture.

Because I am planning to take my GuGu to visit my mother house this sat which is big enough for him to fly inside and play around.

Thanks
Ken


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You can add a little bit of food grade diatomaceous earth to the seed and that will keep bugs out.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Now I keep the seeds inside the refrigerator & it is well going.

Saturday released took him to my mother house & he seems enjoyed .
1st he fly from bottom to the top of ceiling which is about 11FT HIGH from the floor & then flyed from one to another end of the hall. but not dare to come down to floor.
Just keep flying on top & sometime fly around the corners or top of the window curtains & also tried to U -turn and go back to the cupboard. 

But he is afraid to come down when he look down he move back.

after 3 hours of practices I need to catch him so that I can take him back to my house.
But it took me another 30mins which was very tried for me because he don't want to let me catch him & I feel sorry to him because I scared him again but my schedules was busy on that day.

Now he back in the carton and look boring again.

I think the strong wind in the city can blow him off if I released him, what are your suggestions?

Poor bird facing the walls in carton everyday.

By they way when he bath and wings are wet can he still fly?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds like he enjoyed himself. It's easier to catch them if you can darken the room somehow, as they don't really see very well in the dark and don't usually fly off if it's dark enough. You can just pick him up. When their wings are very wet, they don't fly as well.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thanks Jay

Sunday is a bath day, so I took him for shower but before that he already flyed to the ceiling than I need to hold him and shower him softly with the help of my wife.

I thinking if can get some diapers for him so that I can let him walk or fly in my small apartment but just little worry his nails maybe scratch my velvet sofa.

These 2 days we noticed he is making some kind of whistle or maybe CO CO sounds in the evening time maybe few seconds each time not sure what does that mean.
Please advise.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Ken,

There are diapers for pigeons sold online - check out www.birdwearonline.com/http://

If that will make the difference between being let out or stuck in a box, then the diapers would be a good idea, even though initially that will stress him out even more, but I'd wait until his droppings are fully back to normal. If you are planning on keeping him longer or as a pet, I'd get him a cage regardless. If you are concerned about your velvet couch, you can cover it with a piece of fabric, but pigeons nails are not at all like cat's claws, so I don't think he can damage it. Once he gets comfortable exploring the apartment and being around you, he may even want to take a bath himself. Restraining him and showering him must be stressful for him and I wouldn't do it every week, but only in exceptional circumstances. You can leave a shallow pan with a just a couple inches of water for him to bathe in, but since youngsters learn to bathe by seeing adults do it, it may take him some time to figure it out.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi thank for your reply

I am unable to buy mid size elegant flight cage in Hong Kong. Can you recommend some online stores who can deliver to me with reasonable price?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need a cage approximately 30 inches long x 18 inches wide x 18 inches tall. Often that size is called a flight cage for finch birds. For pigeons, longer is better rather than tall.
Here. they cost about $30-$40 dollars.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

This is also the size of a standard guinea pig/ rabbit cage. I have both a finch flight cage and a rabbit cage. The difference between them is that the finch flight cage has a wire floor while the rabbit cage has a solid floor that is a 4" deep tray, so even the messiest eater can not spill seed. The rabbit cage also has a larger door which gives you much easier access to the bird inside. The finch cage is a little bit cheaper than the rabbit cage, and both work great. If you get the finch cage, you don't need to put up the perches that come with it. Pigeons like a brick to perch on instead - it also keeps their nails trim.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great reminder about the perches and brick, Eva.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

May I know if wire floor or solid floor which is good for the bird?
I prefer poop tray below the cage for easy clean up.

How about cage from Hagen- vision below?

http://www.petco.com/product/110620/Hagen-Vision-Bird-Cage-for-Canaries.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-ProductListTopRated_Finch_2-_-Hagen%20Vision%20Bird%20Cage%20for%20Canaries-110620

or this type

http://www.petco.com/product/114152/Petco-Designer-White-Finch-Flight-Cage.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-ProductListTopRated_Finch_4-_-Petco%20Designer%20White%20Finch%20Flight%20Cage-114152


My wife like this color & size would this be suitable size?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aviary-Breeding-Flight-Cage-Small-24x16x16-Purple-/110803343090


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Ken,
the Hagen cage in the first link would be too small, and only Hagen's largest size one which costs $100 would be comparable to the finch cage (second link) which costs $38. So I wouldn't go with that one. 

The finch cage is great value for money. On mine, (which I use only if my guinea pig cage is taken), I don't use the pull out tray the way one is supposed to, because I like for the pigeon to have a solid floor to step on, so I line with newspapers and paper towels that I change once or twice daily. 

Out of the Petco finch cage and the aviary cage on Ebay - I'd go with the Petco cage, just because it's bigger, and when it comes to cages bigger is always better, but of course it depends on the space you have. 

This is my personal favorite if one is able to spend more. It's 40" L X 21" W X 20" H

http://www.petco.com/product/106066/Petco-Bi-Level-Small-Animal-Habitat.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGooglebase-_-Small%20Animal-_-Petco-_-1374648&mr:trackingCode=C586A1A8-26D5-E011-B18D-001B21A69EB0&mr:referralID=NA


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I have bought the cage today & he seems very naughty inside & not sleeping.

Noticed whenever he flap the wings he have small tiny feathers sometimes falls out.
Below is the photo. What could be the reason or it is normal?









Another thing is the foot looks like dry skin or is normal?









million thanks
Ken


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The Petco cage is great. It's nice to already have a shelf in the cage because the pigeons love them.
I always add a shelf and put the food underneath so it doesn't get soiled.
I like a solid floor as well especially for pigeons that have some balance/walking, problems.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Oh Ken...that picture is so...BIG. ..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken...put the news paper on top of the wire so the pigeon won't need to walk on the wire.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken the petco cage is great. Bird cages really don't work very well unless the doors are bigger. They are usually kinda small for a pigeon to be taken in and out of.

His feet do look a bit dry and flaky. Nutritional?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi thanks

Instead of Newspaper can I put something else or a Kitchen paper towel?
Regarding photos I will repost them after adjust the size.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kitchen paper towels work good...or puppy pads for puppy training.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Kitchen paper towels work great - I tape them (w/ masking tape) to the solid floor so that they stay in place when the bird flaps and moves about. They are not rigid enough to put on the wire floor by themselves though, so you'd still need to put newspaper or some other support underneath them.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> ....or puppy pads for puppy training.


Love those, though they can be a pit pricey to use on an ongoing basis.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Love those, though they can be a pit pricey to use on an ongoing basis.


wal-mart ..for us here in the US.. really no more than paper towels esp if you have a large cage. for him maybe.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think they're expensive. I like newspaper under paper towels.

http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...py+pads&ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I think they're expensive. I like newspaper under paper towels.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...py+pads&ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0


guess you missed the ones(puppy pads) with the 10 count for 4.28.. but still with paper towels at say 10.97 for a 6 roll count..it could be more savings.. but.. with using the pup pad( with me cockatiels)..it seems I feel or do not have to change it as much as if I just used paper towels..so it is worth it to me..but I use both actually.. paper towels on the bottom and pup pad (one on the top) it is a large cage..and it keeps it nice for longer.. but I so do see what you mean depending on what you buy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

For me that's still expensive, as the only birds I would have in a cage would be pigeons. And those you really do need to change daily. And I stock up on paper towels when they are on sale. I bought a 12 roll pack the other day for $9.99. And they're bounty, so nice and strong. I think for cockatiels or something like that, then the pads would be more practical. The birds get the good paper towels, and we use the cheap ones. LOL.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> For me that's still expensive, as the only birds I would have in a cage would be pigeons. And those you really do need to change daily. And I stock up on paper towels when they are on sale. I bought a 12 roll pack the other day for $9.99. And they're bounty, so nice and strong. I think for cockatiels or something like that, then the pads would be more practical. The birds get the good paper towels, and we use the cheap ones. LOL.


bounty is the bomb..and yes that does makes sense.. cockatiels.. not so big poopies.. thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. I think for regular birds like what you have they would be great.
You have 9? Wow! Are they all tame and friendly?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi All

I have resized the photo please advise, but today his feet looks better than yesterday.
What could be the reason? less water?

I bought the cage with pull out tray from below because I feel the mess should stay away from the bird feet so that he can live, sit or play in clean environment on the top. The carton used before he always steps on the poops & the foods also falls out & he just step on or sit on it. Incase he need to come out he will have clean feet and clean feathers without poops. If I use the same technic as before & let him poop and walk over it will be the same case. Can the wires below hurt his feet?

Do you release your birds in your apartment? If so before release will you clean his feet, feathers or let him bath ?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would never put any bird on a wire floor because I think it's uncomfortable for the bird. That's why I put newspaper on top of the wire. I don't have a problem with my pigeons having dirty feet but I change the cage every day. When you take the pigeon out of the cage, if the feet are dirty, just wipe them off.
I think that most cages are made for the convenience of us humans rather than the comfort of the birds. 
I have a pigeon flying around right now. Pigeons love to interact with their human companions. They are intelligent and enjoyable to spend time with.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi dear thanks for your reply early morning

I took another photo just now which I noticed he like to climb on to food tray and moving left to right at night but not going to sleep since i changed to this cage maybe due to some light?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

He's sitting on his food dish because they really like to be able to perch on something higher that gives them a view of their surroundings. A brick or flat rock would be ideal. They like to sleep in the dark and light will keep them up - you can cover his cage with a dark cloth to block out more light at bedtime, so he can sleep more restfully. 

BTW, I have pigeons wandering around my apartment at most times - either current rescues or my regular feral flock who like spending time inside. They are very entertaining and great company.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If you can not find a brick, even a flat piece of wood, brick sized will do....so about 8 inches long x 5 inches wide and 3-4 inches tall.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they need a perch, and that dish can not be comfortable to stand on for long. I always put up shelves for them to sleep on.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

They are so cute.
Jay would you mind to show me the shelves you put.

I will try to buy a clean brick which can be used for trim the nails & can stand on top with the size provided below. Which type of animals mostly use these type of bricks so that I can find the shop directly, before I used to have hamsters & we give them small bricks to trim the teeth.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

It's a regular brick - the type used for building houses. I don't know about where you are - here you can usually pick up one on the street. I heat in a really hot oven to sterilize it and when it cools....you have a perfect perch for free.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I found this brick online 
http://www.australianavianproducts.com.au/mineral-bricks.php


I want to ask what could be the reason my bird sneeze once or twice a day? Because of his own dust? or get cold?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

One of those would be good for the pigeon as a diet supplement but not to stand on. The kind of brick we are talking about are used here, to build a fireplace and sometimes the exterior of houses or buildings. One would find them in a place that sells building materials.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are the wooden shelves I put in the cage. They love perching and sleeping on them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay...do you have a picture of a brick?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is a brick.









And you use them to build walls and things like this:


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

LOL, to anyone who's not following this thread, this will look like the most bizarre post on PT. I do appreciate that you posted this Jay - thanks.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Oh my god I know what brick means.
I just posted the above link if that was useful as brick for him to stand. Sorry for misunderstandings.

Jay your 3rd cage w/2 birds how big is it?

Please would you tell me do your birds sneeze sometimes or just mine? I am worry of that. rest is fine except his feathers still not cover all his body specially below the wings & below the crop.

Thanks


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

How often does he sneeze? If it's occasional, then it's nothing to worry about, pigeons too can sneeze the way we sneeze - now and then. 

Where do you keep his cage? You don't want him in a drafty location, at the same time you want good ventilation and lots of fresh air.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken2882 said:


> Oh my god I know what brick means.
> I just posted the above link if that was useful as brick for him to stand. Sorry for misunderstandings.
> 
> *Jay your 3rd cage w/2 birds how big is it?*
> ...


I'd have to go measure it, but I think the cage is about 18 or 20 inches, by about 30 inches. It's a dog crate. 
Yes, they do sneeze now and then, but as nycpl has mentioned, it shouldn't be often. If he is missing feathers under the throat, could you post a picture?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ken2882 said:


> Oh my god I know what brick means.
> I just posted the above link if that was useful as brick for him to stand. Sorry for misunderstandings.




They can use anything that will bring them up a bit in height. They like to perch higher than the floor level. You can just place two 2X4's at either end of the cage and run a board from one to the other. I actually never use bricks, as they are cold in the cooler weather and I'd rather have them perching on something warmer like wood.That's why I always put up shelves. They love them, and it gives them more room to move around. And they can be put even higher than a brick, which they also like. You can even put in a 2X4 cut in length to about 6 or 7 inches if you have nothing else. Just something to raise them up a bit.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi I keep it in the hall sometimes near the window when no body at home or near the sofa 
He sneeze few times a day not continuously, I keep the air purifier turned on.
Maybe of his own dust?

Missing feathers I will take the photo and post it tomorrow.
He likes to peck on his skin on missing feathers but I checked no lice or mosquito bites anywhere.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi please find below picture

*1st Pic after he is wet can see little bones*








*2nd Pic below his chest no feathers*








*3rd Pic under his wings have less feathers*










Please advise me your comments


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's the way they look when wet, especially the white birds.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

How old is the bird in the pictures? Some of those feathers look like pin feathers found on younger fledgling birds!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

almondman said:


> How old is the bird in the pictures? Some of those feathers look like pin feathers found on younger fledgling birds!



Judging by the first pics when he first got the bird, he's probably about 6 weeks or around that age.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi when he is fully dry not wet can see his skin below the chest & feathers as per photo 2 & 3.

What mean pin feathers?

He feel like itchy inside feathers most of the time. How shall I do?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pin feathers are when the new feathers are growing in. If he has new feathers coming in, then that will itch him some.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

What can we mix inside water for him to bath so that his feathers + skin will become fresh & clean and feathers back to normal white color?
I hope can remove the newspaper color from this chest feathers which is now yellowish.

I let him stand more than 2hrs inside bath room with small amount of water but still he do not like at all , although I have done all the things suggested here.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Do PG need to sleep 8 -10 hours per day or less? 
What time do they usually need to sleep at night? and wake up?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They usually sleep when it's dark. That's because they can't see in the dark.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken2882 said:


> What can we mix inside water for him to bath so that his feathers + skin will become fresh & clean and feathers back to normal white color?
> I hope can remove the newspaper color from this chest feathers which is now yellowish.
> 
> I let him stand more than 2hrs inside bath room with small amount of water but still he do not like at all , although I have done all the things suggested here.


He will figure out bathing in his own time. Often, hands splashing the water will get a pigeon interested because they do like to bathe.
Once he starts bathing, he will clean up to the white colorer once he molts.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Pigeons go to sleep at dusk and wake up at dawn, so the amount of time they sleep varies seasonally with the length of the day/ night. I've noticed though, when I have rescues at home, that I can't make them sleep late just because it's dark. I'm not a morning person and keep pretty irregular hours, so my bedroom where they also sleep is completely lightproof, yet they still wake up at the same time as the pigeons outside. They can't do much in the darkness but are definitely not sleeping. So whenever I've kept birds I've always tried to keep them on their natural sleep/ wake cycle. I have heard though, that pet pigeons can adapt to their owner's schedule....within reasonable limits.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I have used double velvet cloth to cover his cage but this naughty boy not sleeping till 12am. I can hear he is eating in total dark. Maybe our hall TV volume disturb him, so we keep the sound low during weekdays, except weekends that is the only time to enjoy TV so we sit till late night outside living room. He wake up about 6am when he here the birds outside because I live on high floor facing the mountain.

By the way during the bath can add any bath powder or liquid soap into the water for him?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

dear friends shall I add some garlic powder in the water once a week enabling his feathers to become stronger & more?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I feel sorry for so many questions. 
How to control over feed my bird? He just eat some seeds but not all.
So I refill twice a day about 1.5 spoon each time otherwise he is not eating the rest which he don't like.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Definitely don't add any soap to his bath water - pigeon sometimes like to take a drink from the bath water. I suppose a bit of garlic won't hurt. People will often soak a clove of garlic in the water overnight and it's good for the drinking water too. You can add some pigeon bath salts (human ones may contain harmful additives) if you like, they are supposed to make the feathers nice and shiny - I've never tried - maybe others can comment.

You want him to eat as much as he wants because he's a growing bird, but you should still only put out as much seeds as he'll eat, so he doesn't just pick out his favorites.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't be worrying about overfeeding him. Let him have what he wants. Using soap in his bath water would be bad for him. Garlic powder isn't going to help him, and will only make him smell bad. You could put a bit of vinegar in the water if you like, and yes they do have salts for pigeons. Is he that dirty?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I was surprised today after back from work. So many small feathers and 1 tail feathers around the cages.
How shall I do? he peck his own feathers when he flaps all the tiny wings comes outs


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sounds like he's going through his first molt.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Dear, I saw him always peck & scratch his under wings and tails feathers. Don't know it that caused his feathers falls out or is first molt for a 2 month old baby? 
Another thing is about is feather dust how can reduce?
About the sneeze daily he sneeze at least 10 times or more not same time but don't know if because of air conditioner. We covered him every time we turned on at night time.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Try treating him again for mites.They do loose baby feathers and get adult feathers
Bathing helps with the dust.
I don't think the sneezing is because of the air conditioner but the molting may be. Going form hot to cool may make his body think the seasons are changing and it's tome to molt.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I have checked his body not found any lice or mites any where. Can Mites be seen by naked eyes or very small in size? If so i will spray him again today.

Regarding the cold at night by AC , back to hot during day time how shall I solve this to avoid him molting by wrong judging?
After work I turn the AC on due to 30'C outside , but keep low cool during that time & then I will clean his cage and play with him. 

Hmm 2 months old is it too early for him to molt?


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## Japanese Boyfriend (Jun 28, 2012)

Wow what a beauty! Are those rare? Are they like some sort of special breed or something or just albino regular pigeons?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

I have sprayed him for mites he does not seems like have mites. Sometime he still scratch maybe due to pin feathers?

His feathers still falling out when flapping.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Moulting is normal at this age, and it does make them scratch.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Dear friends may I know how long the moulting last for first time?
It has been quite a long time.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello to ALL

Please find updated pictures of POOPS this morning
Kindly advise if the poops looks fine or he need any treatments?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

wow. That's " healthy" poop. You are really feeding him well.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Has she been drinking a lot of water, Ken? Is it hot there? How is the molting?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Charis

He drink after food only not much water. I will add small amount of apple vinegar in water weekend once. 
Weather is hot about 29-32 Degree in HK.
Day time when he is alone I will open the windows for him & night time we turn on the AC.
Molting is going on & I need vacuum every day some are small tiny pcs & some are mid size. Sometime long one from the tail
He still like pecking me when I put my hand in his cage but when he is outside he wont peck as much as in cage.
Below some photos to share.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Very cute....he likes your leg?! 
The vinegar is a good idea. The poop does look overly wet to me.
I think pigeons do not associate the hand with the face and so they peck the hand as if it is a enemy to be conquered and destroyed.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Yes you are right dear his poops are overly wet and sometimes very wet . I don't know why is so wet sometimes and sometimes are fine. What could be the problem?

Above photo it was his first try to walk on my leg , maybe he think is a bridge for him because on the left side is a bed. So he walk all the way and then to the bed. He enjoy pulling the bed sheets.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Dear please advise me what to do.

Since few days his poops are very watery some time water is alot.
He also have a tail long feather which is hanging on his wing half down but not coming out, I tried to pull for him but he seems feel pain so I didnt pull out , will these both cases can be related?

What should I do?


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello friends can anyone reply me how should I do?
Sometime he is just urine with poops or more wet poops but poops color looks ok.
Do I need treat him for canker again! or he just have stress due to moulting?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you give probiotics to him?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ken...I would treat him for canker again. Sorry I didn't notice your questions sooner. I think probiotics after would be a good idea.


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

May I know where can I get probiotics & if is the same which used for other birds?
How often do I need to use? I am new to all these things & still learning to help my GUGU to live a healthy life. thanks Ken


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## Dove Lady (Apr 15, 2011)

yes they really are the same.. but try acidophilus.... you can get it at the regular drugstore for people. Add 1/2 a caplet to his water for 3 days. Also it has been hot he may be drinking more than you think. Baby poops are soooo wild... on and off quickly.

Add some garlic powder, just a pinch, to his water too....from a petstore you can get Repti-vite... it is for lizards. a calcuim vitamin mineral mix... just a sprinkle on his food every few days would be perfect. ( A little goes along way!)
You will find that many lizard products work for birds because they are really the same if you go back far enough )


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Dear friends

I have treated him 5 days for canker medicine now his poops are dry just some time he will release wet poops or watery. It seems strange maybe due to stress sometime & sometime not?

thanks


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Hello everyone long time not see.
We have been enjoying with our lovely pigeon become close friends.

Today my wife scream suddenly & sacred the hell of me when I go out to dinning room
I see a white egg below his or her 2 feets.he > become>She?

Last few days he keeps playing and sitting with the ball & today we see one egg.
Because is a wired floor cage I am afraid she will break the egg so I take it out side.
How to do next what to do ? 
He/she never met any partners & I found him when he was few months only which you see in this forum from the first page the history. I am shocked @@ Why and how the egg??

Please help urgently


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Congratulations! She is a hen!

She will lay another the day after.Do you have a nest bowl for her, something like a dog dish you can give her?

She has sight bonded to you and/or your wife You should probably get a plastic egg or two and see if she will incubate and throw the real ones away. They are not fertile, yet she needs to keep calcium reserves so if you can get her to incubate that will give her some time before she lays another set. If you throw them out she will lay again soon, which is very bad for a pigeon to continue that cycle will lead to all kinds of problems.

Make sure she is getting a calcium supplement and sunshine.

here are some real pigeon nesting bowls:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-loft-nestbowls.html *


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Some supplies are difficult for Ken to find in Hong Kong.... even vitamin supplements for avians.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, you can buy fake eggs in some craft places. Maybe open them and fill with something for weight. Or boil the real eggs and let them cool, then give them back.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You can also leave the eggs as they are. It won't hurt anything.
When I had my pigeon, Romey in the house, I always let her lay on her own eggs. I didn't start switching them out until she found a mate and I knew they were fertile eggs.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hens will often lay eggs even if they don't have a mate, if they are bonded to you. It means your pigeon is comfortable with you


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## Ken2882 (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the reply friends.
I will try to go to bird shops & look for calcium and vitamin D3 supplements. But how shall I feed her?
After the first egg she is still energetic as usual & pecks me to the hell. 
My wive is her mate & I am alien . although I am the real savior of her.
Not eat as much as the day before yesterday maybe to due to the egg.

Ken


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

Ken, I just happened to find this story today while just surfing the internet.

I have a white pigeon pet that I saved from when she was about 2 monts old, and now she is about 2.5 years old. The story has been very similar to yours. At first I thought it was a boy, but she started to lay eggs, and that was when I knew she was a girl.

Your bird doesn't need a mate bird to lay eggs. She will lay 2 eggs every 28 days, and the eggs are not fertilized. She will lay one egg, and then a second egg 48 hours later.

I let her sit on the eggs, but if they crack, you need to either mend the crack with glue immediately or take away the eggs, or else they will get infected and smell up your bird. As long as she is sitting on eggs she will not lay another pair of eggs for another 28 days. You should buy some wooden or plastic eggs in case her real eggs break and you need to replace them so that she can sit on eggs instead of laying new ones.

Laying eggs too often can use up a lot of calcium and nutrients.


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

To replenish my bird's calcium and nutrients, I use the following.

Calcionate syrup:

http://www.amazon.com/Calcionate-Sy...TF8&qid=1353211049&sr=8-1&keywords=calcionate

Nutrient that contain vitamins as well as probiotics: I use the Prime brand:

http://www.amazon.com/Calcionate-Sy...TF8&qid=1353211049&sr=8-1&keywords=calcionate


I mix about 1 tablespoon of the calcionate liquid with one or two scoops of the vitamin powder and store the mixture in a small medicine jar in the refrigerator. Everyday I use a 1 cc syringe to hand-feed my bird with this mixture. How I do this is by holding her between my lap and stomach while I'm sitting on a stool, so that she doesn't fly away. I hold her beak on its sides between my thumb and forefinger, and she will open her beak when I do this. When she opens her beak, I insert the syringe about an inch into her mouth and squirt the mixture in.

Here is a syringe similar to what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/MonoJect-Syri...53211427&sr=1-1&keywords=1+cc+feeding+syringe


She has been very healthy for the past two years I have had her. If you don't give her enough calcium then she may experience a fatal problem called egg-binding, where the egg gets stuck inside her. So calcium in her diet is very important.


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

As for baths, I have been giving her a bath every week with Johnson's Baby Shampoo mixed with some boric acid. I rinse her in warm water. Then then put a little hair conditioner in some warm water and splash her with it.

Then I place her on a warmed towel on my lap and blow dry her for about 20 minutes. I can feel if the blowdryer temperature is correct with my hands as I hold her.


Sometimes she has tried to take a bath on her own, but each time she makes a horrible mess and then only sits there shivering and looking pitiful. She also smells bad afterwards. That is why I have taken to shampoo her as above.

Anyway, I hope these tips are helpful to you.

I love my bird. She is the cutest thing and is my good little friend.

Best wishes to you and I think it is wonderful that you care so much about your little bird. Your bird looks very, very cute.


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

I let her fly all over my apartment as she wishes. Mostly, she prefers to stay in a little corner on the counter in my kitchen. She sits on a little box, on which I place some washable cushions that she likes to rip up. I have a foot long mirror next to this. She thinks this little corner is her nest and likes to rest here.

I have all the windows wide open almost all the time because here in southern California it's warm most of the year. But she never flies out. She is afraid when I take her near the window for some reason.

She only poops in a couple of favorite places.

Good luck with your bird. I hope this helps.


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

She used to peck me mercilessly and wing-slap me a lot in the first 6 months I had her. But after I gave her her first bath, she suddenly became very tame.

Now she will peck me and wing slap me occasionally if I disturb her while she's sitting on her eggs. Other than that she is very, very friendly, especially before laying eggs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would think that letting her bathe would be better for her, as they really do enjoy bathing. And using shampoo and conditioner so often can't be good for her skin or feathers.
Be careful, as one day she may very well fly out and be gone. You can never depend on the idea that she will not.


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

the pigey so cute. looks like he wanted to learn how to fly but fell of the nest. notice he poops diarehhea. makes me think he is super stressed. i would buy a small fish acuariam, electric heat pad, lil basket, place food and water and ad lil vitamin drops and grit because stresss, worms, not enough grits to help digest makes poop diff. thats what i hear that microbiology teaches...poop shows what we eat and have inside our bodies.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

pigiesNdovies said:


> the pigey so cute. looks like he wanted to learn how to fly but fell of the nest. notice he poops diarehhea. makes me think he is super stressed. i would buy a small fish acuariam, electric heat pad, lil basket, place food and water and ad lil vitamin drops and grit because stresss, worms, not enough grits to help digest makes poop diff. thats what i hear that microbiology teaches...poop shows what we eat and have inside our bodies.


I don't understand. Are you talking about another pigeon? Do you need your own thread?


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## Oars (Jun 6, 2006)

*How is your pigeon, Ken?*

Ken, I hope you and your pigeon are OK.


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