# Modena Bronze



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

For those who are interested in some of the latest work on Modena Bronze, I suggest you might like to read the article just posted at Ron Huntley's genetics site by Richard Cryberg. 

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/modena_bronze.html 

I didn't think it would be fair to just cut and paste the article here, but I know those of you who take the time to read through it will appreciate the amount of work Cryberg is putting in and the amount of hard science he's sharing.

Frank


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Very interesting but way above my head genetics-wise. I loved the pics and the FACT that this fellow was mating ferals and other breeds to come up with his colors/statistics. I understand banding the offspring for identification/proof purposes, but I never considered that I could/should do that (banding) with my "mutts". Apparently banding a feral/Modena cross is OK according to this article as is pretty much any other kind of strange cross. Somehow I had it in my mind that doing this would be at least inappropriate if not unethical. Would love some education about this.

Terry


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Band away. The only point to banding is to keep track of what you have. The only thing "unethical" would be to use, e.g., roller bands from a specific club and then claim that the birds are rollers simply because they have that band on them. If you're using NPA's generic sized bands though -- say size 7 bands because your ferals are about that size, no problemo. They're your birds and your bands. 

Frank


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Aloha Frank,
Thanks for posting that link. 
I am flying an English based family of rollers that show a lot of that type of bronzing. Below is a pic of one of the hens.


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Hey Dexter, Thanks for posting the pic. I asked Dick Cryberg to look at it, here's what he wrote me.

Frank,

_Yes, I think that Roller has some of the Modena bronze genes in it. Actually it looks a lot like my F1s. My F1s might have a tad better color but either way neither bird really has the good rich red a Modena bronze should have. Also mine might have pushed the bronze farther towards the front of the shield. My guess is that this Roller lacks Mfb entirely and is hetero for the other two genes. But bear in mind that is a guess. While I have looked at a lot of birds that had part of the genes I sure do not have a clue what all combinations will give you. You also need to remember that I am not positive it is all due to only three genes. I have as much more data as what I disclosed in the paper. And to tell the truth some of it is not making sense right now. It may not make sense because the numbers are too small. Or it may not make sense because there is even more to the story. I lean towards the numbers being too small at the moment. But only more data will tell.

In terms of data I am a purist. If it ain't got data it ain't science. To me publishing a claim without data is worse then remaining silent. If you publish some claim a lot of people will believe it because you are an "expert." Well, what if you blew it? I will tell you every single person that has done experimental science blew it someplace or other and something they did will not repeat. Sometimes it will not repeat because of some subtle experimental difficulty. Sometimes it will not repeat because they were simply dead wrong. I am sorry but no scientist is perfect. We do make errors. By giving experimental detail you accomplish two things. You present the actual evidence you based your conclusions on. And more important you give a blue print so someone that is having problems using your ideas can go and do an independant check. Data is what separates art from science. It is pretty darned difficult to give some formula that a painter can follow so every single one of his paintings will come out a masterpiece. That is what makes art an art. Pigeon genetics should not be an art.

I hope what I have done helps people breed better Modenas and helps anyone who wants to move the complex into some other breed accomplish the move efficiently.

Dick_


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Aloha Frank,
Thanks for posting that information. Even though I am not into the showing and color aspect of the fancy, I think that the more a person can learn about these birds the more enjoyment they can get out of this hobby. Below are two pictures of another bird from the same family. He is 6 months old and showing a lot of bronzing. He was a little camera shy, so I didn't get a good standing picture.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

Bluecheck, Thanks for the link. I am interested in genetics (Not for color, but for size, as it relates to chickens). I have been scouring the forums and writing people asking questions, but so far have had very few replies. I do not think I have ever seen bronze on any bird except my turkeys.


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## Bill Fawcett (Jul 14, 2011)

*Bronze Rollers*

Been breeding towards bronze (and pheasant colors) for my rollers So far these seems to be the best.










Of course, not quite there yet. Some of the F3's are sex-links


Here's one of my modenas.










Have tried outcrossing the rollers to modenas with so-so results colorwise.
).


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