# Eating habbits.



## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm being a pest eh? I'm sorry I have so many questions.

I have turkey, rice and veggie pablum as someone recommended.

Zion LOVES it. He started eating on his own now. He pecked at the bottle and started eating the drips on the rim so I started spoon feeding him. Hes doing great.

I need to know if this is ok to feed him , he really likes it, and how much of this he should consume.

Its Heinz Toddler Turkey Rice With Vegetables:

Water, Turkey, Carrots, Corn, Peas, Rice, Parsnips, Rice Flour, Rice Starch, Cream, Dehydrated Potatoes, Squash, Salt, Dehydrated Onions, Spices.

140 cal
2.5 g fat
410 mg sodium
21g carbs
2g fibre
1g sugar
7g protien

per 213 g

60% vit A 6% calcium, 15% iron


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Rycharde said:


> I'm being a pest eh? I'm sorry I have so many questions.
> 
> I have turkey, rice and veggie pablum as someone recommended.
> 
> ...


I'm a far cry from a pigeon feeding expert, but.........the high sodium would concern me and the low protein. A growing baby should really be getting much more protein that 7%.......more like 16% to 18%. Even an adult bird should be in the range of 13% to 15% protein.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

How do I get more protein in his diet?

Can I puree some canned kidney beans maybe? (thinking of what I would do for home made baby food for humans)


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Oh it's not 7% its 7 grams of protein per jar


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Is there a reason why he's not eating grains? That's what pigeons normally eat. Forgive me if I've missed a few posts along the way and am not up to speed on the whole story. I tend to skim that posts and look at the pictures, when I'm in a hurry.


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Yes. There is a good reason. I'm crop feeding him with an eyedropper, or I was until today when he started pecking at the eyedropper and showing interest in feeding himself.

He is a baby and does not really understand how to feed himself yet. Hes getting there! Big steps today, big big steps. Showing interest in eating on his own!

He sees me as a parent. I hand feed him and he pretty much lives on me whenever I am in the house. I live with a receiving blanket and a pigeon on my shoulder.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Now that I've seen the pictures.........he's more than old enough to eat seeds and eat them on his own. I would introduce him to them if you can. I expect within an hour or so, he'll be gobbling them up. I expect that his droppings a little bit loose/wet with what you are feeding? You'll see those firm up as well. Try it. He'll like it. I've had hand raised babies that self fed at 16 days old and your little one is much older than that.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We have a pigeon that age as well, and he was on baby bird formula until a few days ago. We've used Zupreem Embrace formula, Hagen, and Kaytee Exact. This is the method we use: http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

In the past, we've also used soaked puppy chow, and hand-fed large seeds. Now we're feeding our 4-5 wk old pigeon from a seed tube, so same as in the website above, except the baby sticks his beak in a tube filled with seeds. 

Phil (pdpbison) makes his own formula by grinding up a bunch of different things, he might post more on that. He also wrote some posts in this thread on teaching young birds to eat on their own: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20450


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

He was running around on the patio with us today and he started going after my daughter's hot dog bun crumbs!

He is hungry, and now eats anything thats in front of him. SO I've got some of the pablum, will get seeds tomorrow, and he is drinking water from a dish just great now.

He is doing amazingly well, he also flies. We can't take him outside anymore without his cage. He has a kennel cage with very little space between the bars that the lady next door had in her yard sale. 
It just sits on our patio outside.

I know he will fly off , he tried to, but he can't fly far and there are no flocks nearby. I would like to have him released when ready into an established flock that accepts him, not have him run off into traffic and have him hurt or worse.

The other bird will not eat yet. I think we need to find someone who will be better at taking care of Seph.

Any takers in the area? Calling around again when I get the chance. I am so busy in the day with everything that I hardly have the chance...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

If the other bird isn't eating, you need to keep feeding by hand. You were giving the cat food, how's that going? I know sometimes it can be hard when they fight you. Sometimes, we do a 2 person method, one person holding the bird wrapped in a towel, "burrito"-style, while the other person opens the beak and pops the food in. 
Has Ron (jazaroo) been in touch with you at all?
Just as a bit of a warning...our last 2 babies were very cuddly, sweet, and attached to us as juveniles...but as soon as they got a little older, they started biting, pecking, wing-slapping, ignoring us, etc...I was shocked, I thought they would always be sweet and cuddly! So sometimes they stay like that, and sometimes they don't....


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks Sabrina. He is being a grump and no one is willing to help me with him. Mom says she would but shes not. I have him in a burrito wrap like that, have had from the start, and he is so strong that he gets right out and gets mad at me and tries to fly but he dosen't seem to understand that he cant! Yeah...

Its a struggle to get what I manage into him. 

So how much baby pablum does an adult bird need per feeding? How many (2?) a day?


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Oh yea so no he has not been in contact with me and yeah Zion scared me when he flew off today. Unlike park pigeons I can't just throw a little bread down and reach down and pet him. When he has the mind to go, hes going. Good flight today!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If you get a good bird seed mix, they will probably begin to eat and pick it up on their own. You can put some seed down in a deep spill proof dish, move it with your finger, and that will generate an interest. You will see a big improvement in their eating habits once they start to eat the seed, the nutrtion in a good pigeon mix, will fill their needs.

You must continue to hand feed the other one if it is not eating, if it is drinking you can spoon feed dry seed over and behind the tongue, if it isn't drinking you can soak the seed, (a little at a time) drain it, and then feed it. They will love their new diet, as that is what they are meant to eat. You can also try thawed and drained peas or corn, as a temporary diet.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

hi Rycharde,
I think you're planning to keep Zion as a pet...so if I were you, I wouldn't let him free fly outside. It is very likely at some point he would fly off and then not be able to find his way back or get injured by a predator or car etc. Actually I think you said you weren't letting him fly outside so not sure how he flew off (though we've definitely had some incidents with our birds getting out thru windows etc, i know accidents happen) Maybe you could buy him a flight suit though (have been meaning to for ours, haven't gotten around to it yet):
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19929&highlight=flight+suit
http://www.flightquarters.com/bird-diapers/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AFF&Category_Code=F

Did you find someone to take Seph?

You can find a good pigeon and dove seed mix at most pet stores. 

Sabina


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Zion is eating so well that I think I'm going to have a very fat little bird on my hands. His crop was packed today when I came home and his dish was empty!

I still have not managed to get him seed. I live downtown, and for all purposes one would figure that someone would have opened a pet store downtown. But no. I have to find one. 

I do know they sell bird seed at the dollar store downtown, brand name stuff too because I know I saw a lot of brand named products. I also saw loose bagged millet seeds and a bunch of great stuff so I will get down there tomorrow for him. 
None of the 10000 variety and value shops here sell pet food. WEIRD. This whole city is weird. 

Seph is taking baby food when I get it on his beak. Hes scared of us and panics so fast during feedings that hes only good for a few moments then I have to put him in his box again for an hour before he is calmed down again.
He is a high stress animal. I got 2ml of water and 2ml of food into him last feeding. 

How much should he be getting?

I took Zion outside because Zion can't fly. Well he learned. I was walking him to the curb with me to buy a cone for my daughter from the ice cream truck and he flew home. So I put him in the outdoor enclosure and now I don't take him out anymore.

Normally I walk all around my house with him on me. He never leaves me, hes even on me when I'm sleeping. I used to shoo him off me onto the couch and he would jump back on me. This is why I'm going to keep him as a pet. He loves me too much to ever leave me. And I won't deny that I am totally in love with him too. 

YESSSSS SEPH JUST ATE OUT OF ZIONS BOWL! 

Sweet deal. Maybe he will be ok after all. Seed, tomorrow, he will eat it I'm sure! They both will!


Knowing that the dollar store might not have pigeon specific mixture, what kind of mixture is better, a tropical, a wild bird, a small bird, a large seed, whats the one to buy?

What kind of seeds am I looking for in this mixture? Thanks a bunch guys!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't know if you'd be able to get an actual pigeon mix but if your talkin' release
and sending to a rehabber, seems like a wild bird seed that has doves listed would be fine for the time being. Gerber's is fine for babies needing to still be
hand fed, or soaked puppy chow or tubed formula, but if the bird is desiring to 
self feed this is the best possible scenario. 

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Good advice then. I don't know if Seph will ever be able to be released  But I know Zion is my baby. He kisses me on the lips (gentle and nice too!) and my daughter can pick him up!

She picked him up and kissed his head today all nice and they love each other. She is so nice to him, so gentle. He perches on her regularly. This bird is far too friendly to be released.

I'll check the packages. They have a shallow bowl of baby food that they are both picking on to hold them up.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Richarde, I have been following your intersting posts, and have not had a chance to welcome you to Pigeon Talk yet till now anyway.

You and your family seem like a very pigeon oriented group of people, and it just seems a shame that you can't keep Zion.(love the name by the way!).

If you decide to keep him as a pet, ( I hope I hope) we can tell you about some great pigeon food and treats. 

Good luck with what you decide.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Rycharde said:


> I'm being a pest eh? I'm sorry I have so many questions.
> 
> I have turkey, rice and veggie pablum as someone recommended.
> 
> ...




Hi Rycharde, 


Please do not feed them anyhting like this.

There is almost no real nutrition there, no matter what hype the label says...anf there is almost cewrtainly way too much 'Iron'.

Also, this kind of stuff will be toxic for them and will cost their system too much to deal with it.


Pigeons and Doves are Vegan Creatures...and they rely primarily on "live" foods and not "dead-cooked" old stuff.

They are constituted to eat small, whole, wholseome ( not old and dried out, and chew some to test ) Seeds, Green Seeds, Fresh Buds and small fruiting bodys of various plants, fresh Greens ( Leaves ) of various plants...

No animal 'meat'...and nothing 'cooked'.


Your youngster is simply so hungry he is willing to eat almost anything at this point.


If I were raising human 'babys' or 'toddlers' I would never ever feed them any so called 'baby food' from a jar.


Anyway...how old is this youngster?


Ooopse, someone at the door..gotta run...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, I guess you can see that there are some varying opinions here on the board. I've read and known many folks who have used Gerbers w/rice & chicken or puppy food which does have meat products in it, some on this board. In fact, many rehabbers use the soaked puppy chow because it does give them protein and hydration at the same time, one can administer meds this way and it's an easy thing to explain to a beginner.....

Be that as it may, I do have a powderized Vegan complete meal called The
Ultimate Meal that I mix w/Kaytee exact as it is just so nutritional hands down that it is sure to give them an extra boost. This is something that one can purchase at the Health Food Store. I will say this, either tube the formula or use one of the other recommended ways of hand feeding the 
formula to the birds, please. Not that long ago,I took in a bird from someone
who like yourself, was leaving a bowl of formula out for a bird and that bird
was in dire straights when I took the care over. Usually when a bird transitions from being tube fed to seeds, there is a grace period where the person leaves seeds out all of the time for the bird and also augments the feedings by continuing to tube feed but w/less amount and twice a day instead of three to four feedings. You probably should be checking their
crops regularly to see if they are taking in seeds on their own. If they
were in a flock setting, they would have adults to imprint on and they
would see how others fed and mimick this. They just don't have the benefit
of observing older members of a flock and you'll need to be vigilant that they
are getting the nutrition that they need especially because they were/are
injured birds on the mend. Thanks again for all you have done for these two
and I hope you are able to find someone off the Rehabber List who will
help you with Seph's care.

fp


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## Rycharde (Jun 28, 2007)

Aparently there is a pet food store down the street.

I will be keeping Zion forever and ever and ever I love him.

Seph and I are on better terms, hes eating on his own and I'm not so scared of him anymore. 

They are eating and spending time together.

I think Seph's wing is better now. No more blood or scabbing. Hes just a wild adult with no idea that his flight feathers are missing!

I'll find him rehab placement on Monday, he will be fine 

What toys do they like, what treats? What activities? How does one train them to not poop on my bed haha

I want to train them to know they have a spot on my night table and on my book shelf and on my couch on their special blankey. Does that happen? Zion has stayed on the night table most of the day and flies there when he leaves my side.

Hes thinking about hopping on my bed right now, my friend is pointing a finger at him telling him not to and you can tell he is thinking it and when she says no he chirps at her. What a character.

I don't know how old either are. Seph is older, but smaller than Zion.

They will have seeds tomorrow and I know they will eat them just fine. They are looking for seeds!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

feralpigeon said:


> Well, I guess you can see that there are some varying opinions here on the board. I've read and known many folks who have used Gerbers w/rice & chicken or puppy food which does have meat products in it, some on this board. In fact, many rehabbers use the soaked puppy chow because it does give them protein and hydration at the same time, one can administer meds this way and it's an easy thing to explain to a beginner.....
> fp


Yes, fp, I thought of this as well....It sounds to me as if Rycharde was using a baby food "dinner" which contains a lot of flavorings and spices that are usually not included in a jar of plain chicken baby food or a plain baby rice cereal, and I'm wondering if that could be why Phil thought this might not be a good food to use.

In any case, good luck with your bird Rycharde!

Linda


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Rycharde said:


> What toys do they like, what treats? What activities? How does one train them to not poop on my bed haha
> 
> I want to train them to know they have a spot on my night table and on my book shelf and on my couch on their special blankey. Does that happen? Zion has stayed on the night table most of the day and flies there when he leaves my side.


I have a hanging four sided small mirror with a bell at the bottom that some of my male pigeons love to beat up. They also sell a bird toy that has 5 plastic balls with a bell in each one that all connect. It is also a favorite.Tooter likes to play and throw around a basic plastic milk top around. Talk about characters!

You might want to get a car vanity clip mirror. Small enough to not worry about Zion running into it, but yet small enough for him to "beat up 
the "other" bird.

Also, you can get him a small stuffed animal to keep him occupied. I have small bird stuffies that some of mine like.

A pigeons personality depends on weather they are receptive to toys or not.

Place a newspaer near his favorite roosting area since he seems to have found one...and they will find one or two to hang around.

I give mine raw unsalted shelled sunflower seeds as a treat. They ALL love them. I used to buy mine at the grocery store for a dollar for a small bag...that is costly for 8 pigeons. Pet-co just started selling a large bag for 7 dollars, cheap compared to the grocery store. High in cals, so go easy on them!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Rycharde, 


I did not mean to come off sounding hard or anything...was just being matter-of-fact and did not re-write to make sure it sounded better...had someone at the door, and just posted instead of editing later it to read more warm and friendly.


Anyway, just so you know..!

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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