# Extra sick baby pigeon.. please advice



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

*Extra sick baby pigeon.. please advice.. Pictures included*

I just found him today.. and i really need some comforting words that this baby will survive.
I saw him while i was on the train on my way home.. got off on the next stop and walked towards him.. 
busy crowded chicago street.. people just walking by while this poor baby was frying in the sun.
Got home. first thing about him i noticed is his crooked feet.. i dont know how to explain. feet are not broken.. just weird.. i heard lack of B12 maked feet almost paralyzed..he stumbling when he tries to walk.. nothing is broken tho
second thing i noticed cause i went to feed him. noticed he was having hard time swallowing. i look inside his mouth canker all over..
Grab my metro. grab my fluconazole, grab my sulfa-meth.. start the treatment.
He's also having hard time swallowing water. i give little bit at the time.. and i wait for him to swallow..
If he lives i'll treat him for 14 day...
but never before i had a bird with canker.. how long does it take for it to go away, before they are able to swallow again??
and i soaked some cerials.. giving him drops at the time.. really liquidy..
will this baby live???
i dont have B12 on me right now but i do have some other multi vitamins that contain 100 % of b12. maybe it will help straighten out his feet...
he's sleeping right now.. i know he's dehydrated due to the balance loss.
Ps. Poop yellow!!!


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Good job so far. 

Do you have formula ? Baby bird formula ? You can't feed solid food or even crushed food with a canker baby...the food will dislodge the growths and that will be bad. So cease on any solids.

If you don't have any baby bird formula you can feed warm w/ a syringe...run out and buy some baby food (human baby food). Peas, peas and corn, veggies and rice, sweet potato...some flavor like that. Use that and feed it warm with a syringe.

Doies fluconizole work on Canker ? Usually Metronidazole or Ronidazole are the meds of choice...but if you have neither, go with the Fluconizole for today.

All the rest you already know. Warm, quiet. Just give the Fluconizole and try to get some food into him/her...and am sending my best vibes that she/he turns around. They are fighters, even the babies.


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Just checked online...apparently Fluconizole is used in treating trich (canker) in humans...so I figure it'll work with a baby Pigeon too.

As you say, first things first...start the Fluconizole and get that baby fed; may well have to wake him/her to feed him/her. Just that for starters...the Fluconizole and baby food...don't worry about vitamins right now. We can address the feet once he/she gains some strength and the meds kick in (usually the "-zole" meds act hella fast).


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He should be re hydrated before giving him any food, and kept warm.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Fluconazole is used for fungal infections in birds, not canker.
Importance to Avian Medicine – Fluconazole is a fungistatic triazole antifungal agent used for the treatment of yeast and fungal infections in birds. 

http://www.aav.org/research/?content=papers


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Goga, Fluconazole is an anti fungal medicine and not used to treat canker in pigeons, it is used for systemic fungal infections. The Trichomoniasis Jaye mentions in humans is caused by a protozoa called Trichomonas vagilitis and the Trichomoniasis in pigeons is caused by Trichomonas gallinae, they are both treated with Flagyl (Metronidazole) not Fluconazole. Vaginitis in humans can have a few causes, some cause by Candida (Fluconazole is the treatment) and some caused by Trichomonas (Flagyl is the treatment). Without getting too technical they both derive from the same mother compound, Imidazole, but one is a Nitroimidazole (Metronidazole) that works on different pathogens (protozoa and some bacteria) than the Triazole (Fluconazole) which works on mycotic pathogens (fungi). You need Metronidazole or a few other meds that can be used to treat canker (protozoa). The "azole" ending can lead to confusion sometimes.

Thought I would start with this point, see what you have done, before offering more advice.

Karyn


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> Just checked online...apparently Fluconizole is used in treating trich (canker) in humans...so I figure it'll work with a baby Pigeon too.
> 
> As you say, first things first...start the Fluconizole and get that baby fed; may well have to wake him/her to feed him/her. Just that for starters...the Fluconizole and baby food...don't worry about vitamins right now. We can address the feet once he/she gains some strength and the meds kick in (usually the "-zole" meds act hella fast).



i do have metronidazole.. and 4 in one from foy's pigeon supply and spartrix ( treatment one pill a day for 3 days) 
reason why fluco came about .. some saliva in mouth as well.. usually indication of some yeast or fungal infections..
he's on antibiotics..
im a vet tech and i had raised so many sick babies that medication and dosage arent the issue.. 
getting meds sometimes is an issue since i dont work as a tech
Im feeding him liquid soaked cerials.. soooo liquidy its easily drawn in the surringe.. he was crying for food....
sleeps a lot.. god knows how long he been on the streets, stress and hunger did a toll on him.
bought vitamins even consulted with pharmacist he said b12 best choice or b complex..
so im keeping my fingers crossed.
I dont think he'll die he really is in good hands.. and it wasnt his time to go otherwise i wouldnt have seen him


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i dont understand why everybody explaining what fluco is used for???
i thought i said i put him on metro as well???
metro as in metronidazole..


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i forgot to mention some good soul have left some bread soaked in water next to this baby and a cup of water.. he had all the good intentions..

one more thing poop is not runny anymore or yellow.. its formed but very dark.. almost dark green. i'll keep an eye on him tonight and give an update tomorrow morning before i leave for work


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

goga82 said:


> i dont understand why everybody explaining what fluco is used for???
> i thought i said i put him on metro as well???
> metro as in metronidazole..


You mentioned mouth full of canker and what you grabbed to start treatment, you did not also mention suspitions of fungal or yeast issues, so this was the reason I posted the information, plus at least for myself, I had no idea you had a vet-tech background.

Can you go over the dosing you are using, the amounts and frequency, and the meds you do have him on? It would be good you could also post a few photos of his feet, the bird itself and any fresh droppings being produced.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

he's doing much better.. able to swallow , crying to be fed.
canker doesnt concern me.. what his issue now is is his feet i never seen this before.
i'll try to upload some pic
Metro twice a day.. trimeth sulfa twice a day and fluco once
He's so far from dying . thank god.
Unable to walk normaly. his feet OMG his feet are crooked. he walks but cant put his toes straight as if the feet are shifted inwards. 
ill take a pic .. and if anybody can tell me what are we looking for here i'll be greatfull


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Dobato said:


> Goga, Fluconazole is an anti fungal medicine and not used to treat canker in pigeons, it is used for systemic fungal infections. The Trichomoniasis Jaye mentions in humans is caused by a protozoa called Trichomonas vagilitis and the Trichomoniasis in pigeons is caused by Trichomonas gallinae, they are both treated with Flagyl (Metronidazole) not Fluconazole. Vaginitis in humans can have a few causes, some cause by Candida (Fluconazole is the treatment) and some caused by Trichomonas (Flagyl is the treatment). Without getting too technical they both derive from the same mother compound, Imidazole, but one is a Nitroimidazole (Metronidazole) that works on different pathogens (protozoa and some bacteria) than the Triazole (Fluconazole) which works on mycotic pathogens (fungi). You need Metronidazole or a few other meds that can be used to treat canker (protozoa). The "azole" ending can lead to confusion sometimes.
> 
> Thought I would start with this point, see what you have done, before offering more advice.
> 
> Karyn


Thanks for the clarification...


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

So, he's on meds and eating and still alive...so you've done well so far, then ! I guess no need to continue fluconizole since there's not much reason to suspect a fungal infection. keep on the metro and Sulpha, however.

If you feel his/her strength is up...AND the canker growths have subsided...I suppose we need to figure out what to do as far as the legs. Are they just severely pigeon-toed (no pun intended) or are they more gnarled than that ? Is she/he capable of walking, but it just is awkward..or is he seriously unable to walk well enough to move around ???

A pic would be very helpful because if it seems to be dietary, it may be able to be improved. If it's orthopedic and set in, it may be able to be improved by some sort of boot or something...but that begins to veer into getting him to an Avian Vet, IMHO.

Awaiting the pics....thanks for doing such a great job !


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> So, he's on meds and eating and still alive...so you've done well so far, then ! I guess no need to continue fluconizole since there's not much reason to suspect a fungal infection. keep on the metro and Sulpha, however.
> 
> If you feel his/her strength is up...AND the canker growths have subsided...I suppose we need to figure out what to do as far as the legs. Are they just severely pigeon-toed (no pun intended) or are they more gnarled than that ? Is she/he capable of walking, but it just is awkward..or is he seriously unable to walk well enough to move around ???
> 
> ...


ohh still alive and kickin it.. uploading pic of his feet soon as he's done napping.. he walks fast// but looks drunk..
ps. he threw up a bit today. maybe i over fed him. im running out of fluco as well so baytril will do for now

here are the pictures.. he looks way better than when i found him.. he's way too alert lol


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

hope i can upload 3 more..


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Canker can make him vomit, and Metronidazole often will do the same. Try feeding him before medicating with the Metronidazole. What are you treating for with the Baytril?


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Canker can make him vomit, and Metronidazole often will do the same. Try feeding him before medicating with the Metronidazole. What are you treating for with the Baytril?


im not treating him with baytril yet.. but if i do start its for bacterial infections


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I only asked because you said Baytril will have to do.
I forgot to mention that you can give him a drop of Pepto before medicating, and that will sometimes help him not to vomit.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I only asked because you said Baytril will have to do.
> I forgot to mention that you can give him a drop of Pepto before medicating, and that will sometimes help him not to vomit.


have u ever seen feet like this???


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Not first hand, just in pictures. Poor thing. Maybe it was a lack of calcium possibly?


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Not first hand, just in pictures. Poor thing. Maybe it was a lack of calcium possibly?


god knows.. i added some b12 to his luches and whole other vitamins.. we'll see maybe with time.
most important he's alive and getting better.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Not first hand, just in pictures. Poor thing. Maybe it was a lack of calcium possibly?



where did u see pictures like that?? point me in the right direcection so i can start research


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry, they were occasionally posted on this sight in different threads. Sometimes birds with splayed legs have had feet like that. I may have seen some on Pigeon Angels also, not sure. Sometimes, they make little boots and try to straighten them out by taping. That's really sad, as he will never be able to walk right if they can't be fixed.


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Goga, I asked before, but can you please go over the amounts and frequency of the meds you are using, and what this bird's weight is. Severe malnutrition can cause deformities in the legs like that, so I would also be considering supplementing with Calcium+Vit D3 and seeing about getting the feet taped into a proper position to start.

Karyn


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

metro 0.05 twice a day for 14 days
sulfa 0.07
fluco i ran out..was getting 0.04ml once a day


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

goga82 said:


> metro 0.05 twice a day for 14 days
> sulfa 0.07
> fluco i ran out..was getting 0.04ml once a day


Need to know the strength each med is compounded at ?mg/mL and also the a rough weight on this little guy.

Karyn


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Normally Metronidazole is given once a day for 5 to 7 days. Longer if still needed. You don't want to give more than needed as it can have side effects.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is this an avian vet?


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Normally Metronidazole is given once a day for 5 to 7 days. Longer if still needed. You don't want to give more than needed as it can have side effects.


he is 190 grams
and the metro i have . i keept from the last baby that canker and other problems..
that metro was prescribed twice a day for 14 days. 
since these two babies are the same weight im using same amount of meds just as often.. all tho i think this baby is little bit sicker than the last one..and it said its 50mg/ml-7ml
i can get him off that no problem cause i have other meds .. this seems to be helping cause he's able to swallow and not vomiting any more.. been 24 hours that he last vomited.
poop is formed. i keep force feeding him..


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i also have spartrix and i guess this is singel dose treatment..
half tablet for a young baby??
should i put him on that?
cause from what im seeing canker isnt his only problem.. he might have other bacteria that im not treating.
he is very underweigh..
i also have enoflxyn (generic baytril) should i introduce him to that too?? it say half of tab in the am and half at night..


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Is this an avian vet?


yes.. but this is not the prescription for this baby.. it was for the last one i had that was like this... so im just following the same resomendations for this one.. cause with this one it worked mirracles


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Is this an avian vet?


jay im just gonna take him off this liquid form. even tho its not expired yet..
i have a gut feeling that the tablets i listed might work better for him what do u think


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Goga, I asked before, but can you please go over the amounts and frequency of the meds you are using, and what this bird's weight is. Severe malnutrition can cause deformities in the legs like that, so I would also be considering supplementing with Calcium+Vit D3 and seeing about getting the feet taped into a proper position to start.
> 
> Karyn


do u thik i should go buy calcium and vit d3?
and how much i should give him of that? with the food or just alone??
and as far as getting his feet taped might be little hard.. taping them still wont bring legs in the right position. cause he keep's twisiting them inwards. its not like when u have a fracture and u put little splint and leg dont move no more.
wish i had somebody to help me tho


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have had better luck with the Metronidazole than the Spartrix. And I know it says one treatment, but we usually use it for 3 days.For a baby 1/2 tablet. I would stay with the Metronidazole though.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I have had better luck with the Metronidazole than the Spartrix. And I know it says one treatment, but we usually use it for 3 days.For a baby 1/2 tablet. I would stay with the Metronidazole though.


where can i purchase real metronidazole??? when i run out of this one, i wanna have the real thing again. since i always have babies coming and going.
but in the case i go with spartix.. half of tab for 3 days wpuld be ok??


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can find Fishzole at most tropical fish stores. But you would need to get the one with only Metronidazole in it. Or pigeon supplies online have it.

As far as calcium, you can give a sliver of a tums. Or buy some calcium tablets with vit. D3 and cut off a sliver and crush it and mix it in his formula.

As far as the Spartrix, on a young one 1/2 tablet a day for 3 to 5 days.


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Goga, I am trying to help you, but you are bit all over the place, you have not directly answered my questions, but from your other replies I gather he is 190g and that the Metronidazole is 50mg/mL, this means he should be getting 9.5mg of the Metronidazole twice a day. If you are accurate in that you were/are giving him 0.05cc of this, this means you have been giving him 2.5mg twice a day, under dosing him by multiple factors. I can't help you with the other meds, because as mentioned, you have not responded as yet with the information, but you should be dosing this guy 0.19cc (9.5mg) of the Metronidazole twice a day.

Yes, I saw the legs as well, but I mentioned taping the feet because work could be started on those right away and figure out a plan shortly for the legs. In malnourished youngsters you do see malformations from lack of what was needed to form things properly. I suggested supplementing with the calcium and vitamin D3, because that what I would also be doing if he were in my care, as well as perhaps a multi-vitamin supplement designed for birds. You can use Caltrate 600 + D3 and give him 1/10 of a tablet every day for the next few days to start.

Good luck again with him,

Karyn


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I think stick to Metro 2x/day as you have been doing is fine (my avian vet also prescribed a twice daily regimen of 2x day; they prescribe this all the time)...and it's OK to do the Spartrix as well, because some canker is resistant to Metro alone. While one may work better than the other...neither cover all of the most common types of canker which is why I always double-up on the canker meds when treating.

With the Spartix, it is said to give on a near-empty stomach/crop for greatest effectiveness (although I have given it w/ food and it has still been effective).

My prescription Metro is 50mg/ml suspension, for a 200g Pigeon, .1cc twice daily...I see no reason to dump your current Metro if it isn't expired..._as Dobato noted, just upping the dosage_ is all you need to do. And shake very well.

I would say if still improving and gaining weight, do not switch to a Baytril/Cipro right now. Finish the course of sulpha and Metro, and add the Spartix as directed. Then just end all of 'em...unless you see something else going downhill.

So keep on the Metro you have, upping the dosage...keep on the Sulpha...and start the Spartix. Nothing more I would do as far as meds.

The feet are another matter....I think a "boot" or "snowshoe" correction is in order;perhaps some leg taping as well..... In the absence of an Avian Vet exam, I think that this is your best bet to try.

Solid platform as the "sole" of the boot, then a cushiony thing atop the platform so the toes and sole of foot are up against something soft...then setting the toes into as near a correct position as you can w/o seriously forcing them, then bandaging the boot together over the toes with that purple sorta sticky/tacky bandaging which is more easily removable than the usual white, gluey stuff.

For a supplement, you _can_ do all of what is suggested above regarding vitamins and supplements....although again, in orthopedic instances my Avian vet always prescribes _*Neocalglucon*_...which is the same as this stuff:


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=calcionate

Calcium Glubionate is a generic name for it....

Very good for bone development and healing....

Honestly...I was expecting worse. I think a fair chance here of getting those feet into much more usable shape....


----------



## billgriggs (Jan 8, 2011)

I have some that are getting thin hair/feathers, around the head. I don't see any signs of sickness and they never get around any other birds. Any idea what might cause this?, not on the female only (which I first wondered about).


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Bill...best to start your own thread in this Forum section, as opposed to posting your Q in someone else's thread; where it will not get as many views.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Goga. If you give the Spartrix, you should remove the water, and put it back 2 hours after giving the med. Let us know how it goes with trying to straighten his feet.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Hi Goga. If you give the Spartrix, you should remove the water, and put it back 2 hours after giving the med. Let us know how it goes with trying to straighten his feet.



ok  i'll see what i can do


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Hi Goga. If you give the Spartrix, you should remove the water, and put it back 2 hours after giving the med. Let us know how it goes with trying to straighten his feet.



i've put him on spartrix...
3 days.. and i will most likely be taking him to the vet, have the fecal done and then be sure whats wrong with him.. aside canker im sure he has other issues..plus toes..
maybe im treating something thats not even an issue and im overlooking the real issue
in the mean time i was thinking to take a match and spread it thry his middle and back toe and tape it like that..
cause on occasions i saw him stand with his toes straight.. 
could it be that they are broken? he wouldnt even be able to walk or stand. he still acts little drunk.. 
but like i said instead of guessing i'll just take him to the doc.. either this week if i find time after work since my vet has varied schedule or my first off day next week. Or have my friend take him with my credit card.. but i wish to be there.. i ask the right questions..


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> I think stick to Metro 2x/day as you have been doing is fine (my avian vet also prescribed a twice daily regimen of 2x day; they prescribe this all the time)...and it's OK to do the Spartrix as well, because some canker is resistant to Metro alone. While one may work better than the other...neither cover all of the most common types of canker which is why I always double-up on the canker meds when treating.
> 
> With the Spartix, it is said to give on a near-empty stomach/crop for greatest effectiveness (although I have given it w/ food and it has still been effective).
> 
> ...



how long have i had the baby for? maybe few days.. checked for canker and still there. like i said in my last post i put him on spartrix.. can i still use sulpha while he on spartrix..
i mean he's still alive. not in the great shape.. but he walks around my bedroom.. slowly,exploring and then goes back to his lapm


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi...if you are gonna take him to the Vet (*a VERY, VERY GOOD call, BTW*) then let the vet do a taping/manipulation/treatment of the feet as he/she deems appropriate. Spartix can be given with Sulpha...and also with Metro...so keep on all three...as I said, and as I have been told numerous times by my own avian vet...Metro alone is NOT a cure-all for canker because there are clear signs that the illness can be resistant to Metro. Likewise Spartrix. It also doesn't cover all canker. But using them as a two-barreled treatment really covers your bases there. Just leave an hour or two between the Spartrix and the Metro...

I wouldn't do anything to the feet if you plan on seeing the doc. Just keep up the good work and hopefully she/he will keep improving and gaining some strength. Do tell us what the doc says...


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

He's breathing with mouth open tonight.. i was gonna schedule an app to go see a vet but this is going to be an emergency walk in.
in the mean time now what????


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

If it's very, wery hot there, try something to cool down the temp just a bit. But not below 75 degrees F.

If it isn't...then...pray he makes it to the morning and get to the vet ASAP.

I will be praying as well....hang in there.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> If it's very, wery hot there, try something to cool down the temp just a bit. But not below 75 degrees F.
> 
> If it isn't...then...pray he makes it to the morning and get to the vet ASAP.
> 
> I will be praying as well....hang in there.


ur right he is lying down next to the little lamp... not too hot but thats his spot... honestly at one point i thought he would choke.. sounded as if he got a lot of mucous inside.. thats not just cankter alone doing all that.. i been feeding him,, water etc..
byt just now i was so scared for his life.. i took him to the bathroom.. let the water run so it got really steamy inside..vet told me to do that before.. he said it does something to the airway.. anyway i never done this to the bird but i sprayed my bronchitis inhalor towards him.. that was one of my last options. to get that airway to open up.. 
he's better right now.. i'll move him away from the lamp . put him in the cage for the night and rush to the vet soon as i get off work.. no doubt he's gonna make it. he made it this far..

its not his time to go... not yet


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK, we are pulling for the both of you. Keep it up.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> OK, we are pulling for the both of you. Keep it up.



just got back from the vet..
nothing serious, bacteria, and gave me something to slowly scrape the canker out of his mouth,, she got half out.. half up to me. we got some new antifungals and antibacterials..
legs on the other hand might be corrected if i tape them ..
other than that he's out of the woods...
and i think u had a lot to do with it too.. he was overheated last night and u were right when u said to move him away.. thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ))


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Goga, you're doin good for this little guy, & dont want to see anything go downhill with him, But I would be asking just how good the vet is ? 
is it an avian vet ?
The main reason for asking this is i'm certainly no expert, but i'm sure with canker you should NEVER try to scrape it away as it could cause bleeding which could prove fatal.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

An avian vet would never advise to scrape it off. That's crazy.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> An avian vet would never advise to scrape it off. That's crazy.


to gently cleanse the area using the q tip.. i seen a lot of people taking cakers off after medications.. and thry .. she took half off and he was fine. there was no bleeding..
and yes it was an avian vet.. 
we put him on nystatin. cefa drops, and the nolvasan.. to clean the affected area


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you scrape it off, you can easily cause a bleed and kill the bird. That would be a foolish thing for a vet to tell someone to do.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> If you scrape it off, you can easily cause a bleed and kill the bird. That would be a foolish thing for a vet to tell someone to do.


i feel as if i spent money for nothing huh???
baby can breathe now, swallow,, acts new and reborn.. maybe i shoudnt have taken him to the vet at all since they so foolish.. i should just let the baby be the way he was.. leave everything alone...
i feel as if im being judged and attacked for saying what i said.. i said cleanse the area u know what that med is for right?
i dont knwo what to say right now.. seems that what i done for this bird is not good. or what the vet did also..these people are experts, best two vets in chicago work in this hospital. i dont know how can they keep a job being foolish and practicing medicine and actually putting lives in dangers..
it might not even be canker just overgrown bacteria and yest...that looks like canker
cause they did scrape it and yet my baby is still alive.. that was 24 hours ago.. should he start bleeding sometimes soon...
here is just a little vid of people actually removing canker bit by bit before it suffocates the bird

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpMWUzsM-SM


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

goga82 said:


> i feel as if i spent money for nothing huh???
> baby can breathe now, swallow,, acts new and reborn.. maybe i shoudnt have taken him to the vet at all since they so foolish.. i should just let the baby be the way he was.. leave everything alone...
> *i feel as if im being judged and attacked for saying what i said*.. i said cleanse the area u know what that med is for right?
> i dont knwo what to say right now.. seems that what i done for this bird is not good. or what the vet did also..these people are experts, best two vets in chicago work in this hospital. i dont know how can they keep a job being foolish and practicing medicine and actually putting lives in dangers..
> ...




No one is judging you or attacking you goga. What was said was that if you dislodge a canker nodule, it can cause a serious bleed. Birds have died that way. Don't know why a vet would tell someone to do that. I would think that the vet would know whether it was canker, yeast, or bacteria.


----------



## majorsharp (Apr 10, 2011)

*Help!*

I know this is not the right place to post a new post but can't find out how to.

Here's why I need quick help.
I had a breeder cock die yesterday. The pair has two young that are 14 days old. The female is not feeding the young, for two days, seems to have no interest!

Help...what can I do?

[email protected]


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Majorsharp, I've sent you a PM explaining how to start a new thread. More people will see it and you will get more responses that way.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> No one is judging you or attacking you goga. What was said was that if you dislodge a canker nodule, it can cause a serious bleed. Birds have died that way. Don't know why a vet would tell someone to do that. I would think that the vet would know whether it was canker, yeast, or bacteria.


she said it was yeast and bacteria but im the one thinkin its canker.. cause it reminds me of one.. when she swabed it and checked it clearly said it was yeast..
and i was treating for canker.. so 5 days later that was still present in his mouth cause i was treating the wrong thing..
now we got the right meds for it
but anyway.. baby looking better and better, makes noise when he see's me coming, before he had no strenght to do that. he pecks at little things.. curious. poop is looking way better..
i feed him about 35 cc of cherious still ,, till im sure he can eat more solid food and starts eating on his own..
other than that i have no complaints. i feel a lot of weight fell off my shoulder.. thought i'd lose him..
Ps. i had a pigeon die in my arms today downtown.. i saw him yesterday he was limping, broken leg real bad, tried catching him and he flew away.
today i saw him sitting on the streed,, i ran towards him he was gasping for air... i held him for few minutes.. and he passed away.. at least he died in the right hands away from the st.. but i wonder what happened to him since yesterday... maybe he was hit. or maybe he was really emaciated cause he seemd little skinny..
save 50 lose 2..
anyway just to answer a question to a guy that asked about his two babies.. u have to feed them asap

ps. jay i still ended up giving him half of that spartrix just in case, it wont hurt.. u never know..


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Some folks *swab* the nodules with dissolved Metronidazole...but I have to chime in and agree w/ Quazar and Jay3 here....scraping at them is just not a good idea. I also know of a number of very sadly ending stories where someone was instructed to swab the growths. What occurred was exactly what one would expect ~ the Pigeon perished due to dislodged/partially dislodged nodules.

So, not to be argumentative...but I do hope you will cease doing that if that is what you are doing. The dangers have been noted by others above. It's really, really dangerous to dislodge a canker growth. If you and your pal have lucked out to this point...I would cash in my chips if I were you; and go to a less aggressive approach.

Canker will clear with oral meds. If the combo of Metro and Spartrix wasn't doing it (and it may have been it was just a hecka bad case and it was taking a long time to clear up), then I usually switch to Ronidazole and drop one of the others out of the picture.

In any case, it certainly _*was*_ a good idea to get your buddy to the vet (I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise). It was just sorta surprising advice the vet gave you, and one which runs very counter to the experiences of many folks here. I think that was the point Jay was trying to make. I wouldn't take it personally.

It's your call...but as I said, my 2 cents is that you have lucked out with the scraping so far, if the Pigeon is still with us...and you should cease that particular treatment now.

Good to hear that he/she is still alive...I really had my doubts after your post #48.


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaye said:


> Some folks *swab* the nodules with dissolved Metronidazole...but I have to chime in and agree w/ Quazar and Jay3 here....scraping at them is just not a good idea. I also know of a number of very sadly ending stories where someone was instructed to swab the growths. What occurred was exactly what one would expect ~ the Pigeon perished due to dislodged/partially dislodged nodules.
> 
> So, not to be argumentative...but I do hope you will cease doing that if that is what you are doing. The dangers have been noted by others above. It's really, really dangerous to dislodge a canker growth. If you and your pal have lucked out to this point...I would cash in my chips if I were you; and go to a less aggressive approach.
> 
> ...



ohh  the baby is doing great, he's out of the woods for sure..
think i had him now for 6 days. he made it this far he isnt going anywhere..
i just told jay that it was yeast that was accumilated in the throat.. if she didnt scrape some out he would have suffocated..
i keep claiming its canker just cause it reminds me of one/...it came off easily with the q tip..
but like i said i just gave him another half of that spartrix just to be on the safe side.. it dont hurt.. 
but im cleaning with the solution she gave me,, havent scraped nothing yet..


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm very glad he's doing better.


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

goga82 said:


> .......i feel as if im being judged and attacked for saying what i said.. i said cleanse the area u know what that med is for right?
> i dont knwo what to say right now.. seems that what i done for this bird is not good. or what the vet did also..these people are experts, best two vets in chicago work in this hospital. i dont know how can they keep a job being foolish and practicing medicine and actually putting lives in dangers..
> .....


Goga, as has already been said, no one is judging you, or attacking you, It was just the information you were giving was a bit confusing and contrary to normal procedure for canker, hence the concern.
Now you've explained a bit clearer its good.
As I said, youre doing great with this little one & glad to hear hes improving


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

well.. everything was going well with this baby.. and i never believed those threads where everything goes well and then suddenly they say the baby died..
I didnt think that can happend???
BUt yeah he died this afternoon alone..


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry you lost him.


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Goga, i'm so sorry, He may have passed away on his own, but at least you did everything you could.


----------

