# Nest "Bowls' ~ why do we use them?



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi all, 


Something got me thinking about Nest Bowls, and so I wanted to introduce some thoughts on them as a thread.

It seems to me, that the disadvanatge of a 'Bowl' is that, while comforting to something that seems intuitive to people, or as a sort of implied restraint for the Baby, it does not resemble at all the actual form of the Nests which Wild Pigeons actually build, and in which their Babys are innately disposed to reside, and to which their Babys are innately adapted.


I myself have never used 'Bowls' for Baby Pigeons, but instead, I merely make a sort of little do-nut with rolling a small white or light colored towell, and I set that into a shallow Cake-Pan or small casserole dish or something quite shallow, or I set it into a one inch high worth of small Cardboard box I cut down, and have that on the towell covered heating pad...

And, I set that in a smallish (8 x 8 or 10 x 10 inch) Cardboard Box which is set on it's side, so one 'side' is open. ( 'Flaps' removed to the open side is 'clean' .)

This usually on some simple Table or folding table or 'Card-Table', and once the Baby(s) are older, they start comeing out of the on-it's-side Box with the flat-ish Nest in it, to preen or play or get fed on the Table proper. When they are sleepy or at night they retire on their own into the 'box'...untill later, when eventually they do not resort to it very much anymore but in stead sleep like little Boats-on-shore, or hang-out on the Table itself.

When they are too little to come out and get fed, I simply reach in and pull out the cake-pan with the little towell do-nut and them, all as a unit, to feed them, then, I put it back.

I have been entirely happy with this method, and it seems that they allways have too.

This way, when the little one wishes to poo, they will nicely move their little butts to poke out past the smallish rolled-towell do-nut, and poo onto what they construe to be whatever is past the 'edge' of the Nest proper. They will in essence, elect to poo over the edge of whatever it is they construe the Nest itself to be.

If constrained to be 'in' an actual Bowl, they may not be able to do this.

Baby Pigeons do not have any desires to move beyond what they construe to be their Nest, and this is largely an immediately tactile or also visual construence for them.

When they are a little older, if there is something to move out onto which is outside of the Nest proper, like the rest of the Table top, they will enjoy to move out onto it for feeding and for preening and day dreaming and so on.

Really, a smallish rolled-cloth do-nut, set on a larger cloth of maybe even another color, will be enough to describe what for them 'is' their Nest...with no physical constraint needed. In the wild, their Nests are more or less flat-ish anyway, and have no sides, or are against maybe one side of some wall or something. Or, are on a ledge.

These are after all, 'Rock Doves' whose traditional Nests are made in cliffs or ledges or nooks in ledges with only one 'side' if any.

Anyway, I have tended to have something simple as I mentioned above, and I have never had any troubles with them wandering from it, untill much later, when they can almost fly, then, they are hungry for adventure and exploreing and testing their Wings...

Usually, as a last mention on this, I tend to have a light cloth or light hand-towell draped over the Box-on-it's-side, to be a little curtain over the one open side...which only reaches down 3/4ths of the way. When they go in or out, they just walk through the little curtain, and it lets them have a very protected little place which is darker and secluded from the context of the larger room proper, for their early weeks and at their discretion after.


Anyway, they are not 'puppies' who will wander around...they will stay put, just as they do in Nature.

I have no idea why 'Bowls' have become a habit even in the Pigeon Supply Catalogues, since, no Wild Pigeons ever use them, nor do Pigeons ever elect Bowl Shapes to make Nests 'in' unless forced to do so, or unless quite shallow, nor on their own, to ever make in any way, a Nest which resembles a 'Bowl'.

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Nesting boxes*

I like many of the boxes at Costco or Sam's club. I think my birds enjoy choosing thier own spaces to nest in. They can use pine needles or grasses. I like the boxes because after there dirty they can be thrown away. And be replaced clean and free of charge. They stack easily. I look for the ones predivided with a 2' lip. They come in many colors too. 

Debbie


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## RoundAbout (Apr 24, 2005)

Interesting subject. I have nest boxes made of big plastic bins nailed sideways to the coop wall. The lid has a hole cut in it. These nest boxes are very popular. Inside I put a throwaway cardboard nest bowl, but these have been ignored completely! The nest is made of pine needles right next to the bowl instead, so I use the bowl to put a little extra food in for the babies to peck at when they get older. On the other hand one pair of pigeons refuse to go in a nest box and decided to nest on top of a box. I put a plastic dog bowl up there and they both immediately got excited about it and started cuddling up in it as their home. 
RoundAbout


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Phil,
When Frank & Jessie indicated they wanted to have a couple 'kids', I placed a small (yet large enough for Mom & Dad to mover around in) plastic dish (the ones placed under a planter to catch the water, purchased in the garden section at Home Depot) in their nest. I lined the dish with a piece of 'non'skid' liner that is used in cupboards (this prevented the babie's legs from sliding out from under them, which could have possibly caused spalyed legs).  
The top layer of the nest consisted of a handful of dried pine needles. Bonnie & Clyde had a great time growing up with the comforts of 'nature' while being confined. 
The process was repeated when Mikko & Pij'ette blessed us with Sadie & Sam (Samantha). Clean up was a breeze. 
From them on it has been fake eggs for all!  

Realizing the process is a bit different for those who are raising orphaned pijjies because you need a heat supplement, you can still add dried pine needles, if available. Mine babies sure did like them.  

My pijjies are all rescued non-releasables & although they live the life of Riley, our setup is quite simple, no frills, just a safe & happy enviornment.

Cindy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Box, bowl, Or what ever is still a nest area. In lofts where breeding holes are built for breeders A nest bowl boox or such becomes comman In the wild on buildings or such If nest bowls were put there I bet the birds would use them To a degree. But open air nesting. Not protected from the weather. Needs to be drainable of water from rain and such. So young do not drown. And In peoples life What ever works will. Just methods have come along way overe the years of people keeping raiseing and breeding pigeons. To where standard nest bowlas and such get used. Just like hook bill breeding Boxs are made to aid there too.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Phil,

From reading your posts I get the feeling that you like to try to keep things "natural" and strive to replicate the feeding, nesting conditions, etc. that would occur naturally in the wild. My hat is off to you, as doing things this way can be time consuming and labor intensive

Thankfully, I've never had the daunting challenge of caring for or hand raising squabs, so I'm just offering an uneducated guess here.

I think Robert (re lee) is right when he says that nest bowls are usually used in breeding lofts because it's a method that that has come along and seems to work well for them. It is probably also convenient when it comes to maintaining nest boxes...easier to clean, etc.

I would think that this would also be the reason why many people use a formula such as the Kaytee Exact for feeding babies. More convenient and less labor intensive than concocting a homemade recipe when contending with the already stressful and worrisome task of trying to hand raise squabs. I liken it the human situation of feeding.....we all know natural breast milk is best, but in cases where that is not possible, formula is used....I know way back when, mothers had to concoct their own formula using milk, corn syrup and other stuff (my mom in law has the recipe, as she had to do this years ago), but when commercial formula was made available, you can bet your bottom dollar, that many new mothers were thrilled with the convenience of it.

Interesting thread you started Phil....I am enjoying reading all the opinions.

Linda


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## Tralyna (Apr 30, 2005)

Hi Linda,

My husband and I are trying yours and Phils method of a nesting area which both of you seem to have the same idea. Right now we are testing the heating to find out what temp is going to be. I will keep you and Phil posted on how this turns out. Thanks for the advise to the both of you.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Years ago I had a nice Aviary I had built, for those recovered or raised by me, or laid and hatched and raised by paired recovered Ferals I had convelesced. They had all lived and made Nests and so on on their own in my little Home at that time, which was quite charming and fun, and happy, but eventually was too much for me, so...I built the Aviary.

In the aviary, I had one long wall with shelves a foot or so deep, and these shelves were diveded into about 18 inch segments. The Aviary was almost allways open but had a door I could also close if I wanted.

In these spaces then, they tended to build their Nests on-the-flat, and I did not use any Bowls for them. I know they kind of do like shallowish Bowls, and can find them inviteing. I tend to connotate the term 'Bowl' with something deep...where the term 'dish' or 'pan' connotes to me something shallow, and hence, in my view, better suited for making a Nest in, and for Babys to poop out of...Lol...

As a side note, in those long ago days, when I had about 30 Birds living in my little house, they all became champion close-quarters fliers. Some would fly down the narrow hallway with but inches from each Wing tip to the walls, to turn and enter the bedroom and fly tight (Flap-flap-flap) circles over me to ask in their way "How come you are not "up" and opening the Kitchen window for us to go OUT???!!!"

Where upon I would get up, go down the hall, go into the kitchen, and open the smallish steel frame small pane casement window, and...

Have 30 odd Birds explodeing from the various rooms to fly out the little window, which they all learned how to do very well, folding their wings as they were about to pass through it, as it was only about 12 inches wide and 20 inches high.

Anyway, they all were champion fliers for tight places and I felt that could come in handy for them in Life...

No one ever got hurt either...

This all got going from one Bird who got well, then one more, then their paired to be mates of Babys, and orphan Babys who kinda stayed even though they were free to go, and soon I had my own resident Flock.

All had names, and most paired up and made splendid Babys. This was also handy if I needed surrogate moms and dads for orphan Babys, because at any given time, someone was raising their own babys of a similar enough age, and too, when I did that, I used to help with the feedings also so as not to tax them. Many Birds when reaching their age to do so, left to assumes lives elsewhere, and, many stayed of course since they were already in a flock.

This was all great fun and very beautiful all tolled.


Someday I will move and have a nice accomidation for myself, and once again build a nice Aviary or two for various Bird needs. But overall, I have been happy with being an associate of a Wild flock and helping out those wild Birds who then, ideally, may return to their previous interests, or, for me to raise orphan Babys who then assimilate into the Wild Flock here.

Anyway...rambley, yours,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Pigeon Nest Bowls*

Why do I use nest bowls?

1. I use pigeon nest bowls because they are nicely curved and keep the babies in place, right next to each other. They are not high and easy for the parents to climb in and comfortably shaped for mama and papa pigeon.

2. They have ridges on the bottom to keep the little ones feet from splaying. They keep their feet and legs nicely tucked under them, because I have a habit cleaning them everyday, and moving the babies can move the position of their feet.

3. Regular bowls or pots are not designed as these bowls are. they are also easy to clean. You can get them in plastic or clay, from the pigeon supply places.

Treesa


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

As a hedge against the winter cold, this year I put a small, folded-up fleece blanket in each nest box. The hens immediately rejected their nest bowls and chose to nest directly on the blanket. When I insisted on putting a nest bowl in Grace's nestbox (on top of the blanket), Grace made her point by specifically, accurately, and repeatedly pooping IN the bowl. And this is a bird who normally NEVER poops inside her nest box. The blankets do a good job of collecting most of the dust and feather crumbs which normally would be flying around in the air. When the birds give up on the (wooden) eggs, the blanket can be washed and placed back in for the next round.

Since this may be too hot for the summer months, I saw that some catalogs offer felt nest pads. This would seem to offer a cushier feel to the the nest bowl. Has anyone tried these?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I have not used the nest pads, but I'm experimenting with indoor/outdoor carpet. 

We had scraps left over after replacing the old carpet in the porch. So far, Skye and Sonic like it in their penthouse and haven't pooped on it yet. It is soft and cushy. The pom pom feathers do get stuck to it, so I'm pulling those off. At first they started picking at it like it was grass, but they have stopped. I was afraid they would pull up the loose ends, (where it was cut) and eat it, but they haven't. 

Some of my other birds have pooped on it and once they get it good and messy it has to be thrown out, cause you can't run it thru the washer. You can however, hose it off if you have a big piece.

Treesa


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I've found that I like those plastic nest bowls with the "basket" bottom best... for my birds that is. I put a nest felt in it and then give the birds lots of nesting materials, timothy hay & tabacco stems, to build a nest with. I've found that the basket bottomed bowls are a lot drier then the solid bottomed plastic ones or a ceramic bowl I have too. I think its better for the birds to be dry rather then damp under them.


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## Tralyna (Apr 30, 2005)

Ok all,

I am so confused as to how a nesting area should be, I have never ever raised a baby bird let alone had a bird. Therefore, I am using what I feel is best at this time. The baby I have is 8 days old, my husband and I have raised it since it hatched under our heating blanket in a basket. He was left to the wild when the egg was taken by our dog...sorry! but had not a clue our dog was doing this until we found a lost egg. We were quite surprised it even hatched. The feral is doing great, but I am worried about the splayed legs. I am using the donut rolled towel in a shallow dish with a wash cloth over that, so his legs don't get burned from the plate. I also have a small hand towel on top of that because the low setting on our heating pad is still to hot with just one towel. The nest it self is ok, and he does back up to the top of the donut and poo but then goes back into his nesting area. I am also wondering when I can take the heating pad out. I would like to make an area where he can venture out without burning his feet but uncertain as to what at this time. Any suggestions?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for raising this baby!

Depending upon your climate, would dictate whether the baby needs a heating pad or not, is it warm where he is? If he is healthy and doing well, a small piece of a woolen blanket for covering might do. 

Backing up and pooping out of the nest is the norm.

I raised a couple of babies from my coop that were left to die, and I used a small wool blanket to keep them toasty, but I live in Florida so they stayed pretty warm. If you need the heading pad, I would put a towel, or snag proof blanket folded several times on top of the heating pad. This will insure the baby won't get burned. Once baby gets all his feathers you may take away the heating pad, if the temp is warm around him, with no air drafts.

Regarding the splaying of legs, they should be in sitting position and kept under the baby. If they are coming out the sides, then they need to be corrected at this point in time. You can tape them together in the sitting position with surgical tape or another kind of gentle tape, or a bowl as you mentioned. I have used a bowl small enough to keep the legs under the baby but large enough where they sit comfortably. 

Treesa


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