# My thoughts on deep litter



## SouthTown Racers

Over the past couple of years, I have used different types of bedding on the floor to create a deep litter system. I started with ground corncob and it worked just OK. Some of the birds ate it which caused them to vomit and may have been the cause of sour crop in a couple of birds. It also wasnt as absorbant as I thought it would be. It wasnt as easy to clean as some of the other materials. 

Next I tried hardwood pellets made for a wood burning stove. This was a mess in my opinion. The pellets are too big and spilled food seems to get lost because the birds cant "scratch" through it easily because of the size of the pieces. If it gets wet, it instantly turns to soggy nasty sawdust. I had two instantces where I got water in the loft (bad storm ripped up a roof panel, and I spilled a waterer) while the pellets were on the floor, and it was not fun at all to clean up!! 

I have also tried to let the birds create their own deep litter with their droppings. This works great durring the summer when its hot out side. With the up and down winter temps in Missouri, it didnt work so well because all the fresh accumulated droppings would freeze during a cold snap, and when it would warm up, all the frozen droppings would thaw and create a damp, moist environment.

I was talking to a friend who suggested using oil dry. Oil dry is all natural made of clay, and is super absorbant. If the birds eat it, no problems. I use a kitty litter scoop and go through once a day removing the big clumps. For me, it takes less than 10 minutes to clean the loft. Once every couple of weeks, I add some fresh oil dry to replace what I have removed in the cleaning process. Oil dry is so absorbant, that even in freezing temps, it seems to suck the water out of the droppings before they freeze. It keeps the loft very dry, the birds feet stay clean, and they seem to enjoy picking through it. Oil dry doesnt seem to get very dusty unless you are in their really stirring it up. I have not had any respiratory issues. Unless somthing changes, I will be using oil dry while breeding in the winter time from now on.


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## spirit wings

Iam a fan of the deep litter method as well and of the oil dry or sweet pdz or stall dry (which by the way has a low dust in the granular form because horses are senstive respitory wise). But from what I have found and read, the true deep litter method uses about 9 inches of pine curls or large shavings (low dust ones) on an earthen floor. The earth is where the microbes live and they break down fecal matter and turn it to soil. The birds never touch the earth because of the large amount of shavings and you turn it every so often and reapply some fresh litter to the top as needed. now this works in a coverd space with an earth floor.. I would not do it in an aviary without a roof as it would be too wet and the mircrobes do not work in wet. I think your version sounds great in a loft with a wood floor. I use stall dry but just a sprinkle to dry things up and make it easier for scraping, have not thought of doing it deep, although when I went on vacation and had someone feed and water but not deal with the cleaning..I sprinkled a big amount on the floor and made a deep litter with shavings and it kept things fine for 5 days of not scraping. The only draw back to using these things is not beable to see any bad droppings as it drys everything up quickley.. but nothing is perfect and one can still see droppings in a nest box where they sit..esp in the AM. I think you may have a good idea there and sounds allot better than sand as I have heard of some using. not a big fan of sand in humid areas, but dry climates it works like your oil dry does.


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## rackerman

Where do you get the oil dry?? How much does it cost and how much do you use?


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## Lavender Hill Lofts

I am not a proponent of deep litter primarily because in America we do not incorporate floor heating like they do in Belgium and Holland which in my humble opinion is the key component in a deep litter system. Floor heating improves the effectiveness of a deep litter floor 10 fold.

I to have used corn cob, wood pellets as well as cat litter and sawdust and none of these products improved the quality of life for my birds or me. 

Good luck to you, I hope it works.


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## SouthTown Racers

Are you saying the heated floor keeps it dry?


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## SouthTown Racers

rackerman said:


> Where do you get the oil dry?? How much does it cost and how much do you use?


Any Auto Zone type store has it for around 6$ for a 40lbs bag


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## SouthTown Racers

Lavender Hill Lofts said:


> I am not a proponent of deep litter primarily because in America we do not incorporate floor heating like they do in Belgium and Holland which in my humble opinion is the key component in a deep litter system. Floor heating improves the effectiveness of a deep litter floor 10 fold.
> 
> I to have used corn cob, wood pellets as well as cat litter and sawdust and none of these products improved the quality of life for my birds or me.
> 
> Good luck to you, I hope it works.


If I had heated floors, I wouldnt put down a bedding at all. If Im not mistaken, European flyers with heated floors dont need an absorbing aid like oil dry, they let the birds make their own litter. Because most of us dont have heated floors and a lot of us dont have heated lofts, I was offering a possible solution to a messy loft in the winter when the droppings are freezing/thawing on a day to day basis.


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## raftree3

I scrape every day. I'm going to be out of town for 5 days soon and rather than have someone have to scrape while I'm gone I think I'll try the "Oil Dry".


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## Alamo

I have used OIL DRY many times over the years...I like it better in winter months...It absorbs the moisture fast,and that helps keep the birds healthy...It`s hard to scrape the droppings when they are frozen...So with oil dry,I just rake it into 1/4 inch wire,and shake the oil dry out...That leaves only the big clumps of you know what left...Alamo


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## orock

Thanks for the info,I might give it a try.


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## Msfreebird

Thank you for this information  I use the deep litter method in my lofts, but I have wooden floors. I've been using 'reptile/bird litter', it's very small chunks of hardwood (tiny), and is working great but a little pricy. Going to try the oil dry


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## bigmalley

Lol! Matt auto zone is going to owe you a commision! Im going to get some oil dry too!


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## JRNY

I tried the pellets also. Good if it doesnt get wet. Turns into sawdust.


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## Pigeon0446

I'm too lazy to clean everyday and if I did I'd have not time for anything else since I've got 4 big coops and a few smaller ones. But I use what would be called a deep liter system where I rake out the bigger stuff and remove some stuff every so often to keep it at a certine level. Last year I couldn't do it in my whole YB coop since I had a leak in one section so that section had to be cleaned everytime in rained. I'm in the process of putting a new roof on that part of the coop and redoing other stuff. I'll post some pics in the Loft section when I get around to it.


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## thepigeonkey

Does anyone use sand? I'm thinking about going to the river to get some if it works.


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## klondike goldie

I don't know too much about the deep litter system, but one of my daughter-in-laws uses the deep litter system in her house and the kids seem to always be sick. The other kids keep everything clean and the kids seem to be healthier. I clean my loft every day.


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## thepigeonkey

klondike goldie said:


> I don't know too much about the deep litter system, but one of my daughter-in-laws uses the deep litter system in her house and the kids seem to always be sick. The other kids keep everything clean and the kids seem to be healthier. I clean my loft every day.


Bahahaa I like the way you think


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## thepigeonkey

I would be scared of getting pigeon lung so I clean every day too


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## HmoobH8wj

make a video of how you do your Oil dry on the floor. i wanna see =D


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## SouthTown Racers

klondike goldie said:


> I don't know too much about the deep litter system, but one of my daughter-in-laws uses the deep litter system in her house and the kids seem to always be sick. The other kids keep everything clean and the kids seem to be healthier. I clean my loft every day.


YES!! This is one of the reasons I started this thread. I was wanting to see what different people thought about the managment of the pigeons health when it comes to cleaning, and a litter system vs scraping the floor.


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## SouthTown Racers

http://youtu.be/ddswcGVhP0c


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## 4nursebee

Other than not having to clean as often, what is the benefit of a deep litter method?

I've heard of a now dead local flier that studied how pigeons performed in different environments, heard that the loft never cleaned performed the best.


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## Jay3

4nursebee said:


> Other than not having to clean as often, what is the benefit of a deep litter method?
> 
> I've heard of a now dead local flier that studied how pigeons performed in different environments, heard that the loft never cleaned performed the best.



Sounds like a good excuse to never have to clean your loft. Maybe that is why he is dead?


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## almondman

OUCH!!!!!!! That would suck.


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## Alamo

RIVER SAND IS A NO NO !!! BUGS will live in the sand,and do harm to your birds...Either use Oil Dry,or corn cob ,or,just scrape the poop.....Alamo


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## spirit wings

I have to speak up about the corn cobb bedding.. it is said it is prone to molds,(that mold can be Aspergullis) so for long term deep litter I would not use that product.


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## Alamo

Spirit wings,you are correct...If you use a floor dressing,you must change it every 30/40 days...That way,it`s always fresh,and bug/mold free.....Alamo


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## Lovelace

Sound like you need more ventilation in the loft, a good open loft is the best thing out there for health.


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## NZ Pigeon

I can't see anything that suggests the ventilation is a problem here. I personally prefer cleaning every day and having wooden floors. It avoids a build up of dust. I have seen some healthy lofts on both systems but seem to see more sick birds in deep litter lofts than I have in a clean loft.


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## thepigeonkey

Alamo said:


> RIVER SAND IS A NO NO !!! BUGS will live in the sand,and do harm to your birds...Either use Oil Dry,or corn cob ,or,just scrape the poop.....Alamo


Thanks for answering my Q Alamo. What kind of bugs live in sand? what about sand from the beach?


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## SouthTown Racers

Your birds can get worms from the sand, Ive also heard of birds gorging themselves on sand causing all kinds of problems.


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## Freebird loft

spirit wings said:


> I have to speak up about the corn cobb bedding.. it is said it is prone to molds,(that mold can be Aspergullis) so for long term deep litter I would not use that product.


I would have to agree about any organic bedding such as corn cobs or even wheat straw will grow mold when exposed to moisture. All natural clay cat litter or the oil dry won't grow mold that I know of. I use deep litter on my breeder's year round and change it before breeding season and after breeding season. My young birds are on deep litter until 60 days before the first race, I just rake it around once a week and occasionally remove some from under the perches only. Widowhood team is on deep litter from the last race until the youngsters are weaned. Only reason I scrape the loft during racing is to check the droppings everyday.


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## Freebird loft

SouthTown Racers said:


> Your birds can get worms from the sand, Ive also heard of birds gorging themselves on sand causing all kinds of problems.


I've heard that the fine edges on sand destroys the worm eggs, and Rick Mardis of CBS lofts has sand in his breeding aviary's, check them out

http://www.cbspigeon.com/video/vd9.html

http://www.cbspigeon.com/video/vd22.html


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## HmoobH8wj

so i pick a beg of oil dry how much should i use in my 4by4?


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## NewHopePoultry

I have a dirt floor and use the deep litter method using horse bedding. I do scrap daily or at least every other day though. I think mainly becouse thats what I use for my chickens as well,
But I think Im going to look into oil dry.

Ive tried, straw, cobb, etc just about everything else and had a problem with it for one reason or another.


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## TylerBro

wal-mart has it for like 4 bucks a bag around me ...


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## Pigeon0446

When I do clean my coops all the way I put a layer of beach sand on the floor to start off and let it build up from there. As for more birds being sick in a deep liter system that may be true for the young birds but I'd rather have my birds exposed to everything at an early age so they build up an immunity to things. Instead of them getting sick after the first race when they are in contact with other birds and having to put them on a medication program just to keep them in good enough health to be race worthy week after week. The deep liter system might not be for everybody but for a lazy guy like me who'd rather be on the road training the birds then in the coops scrapping all day everyday it's great. All I know is the way I've been doing things has worked for me.


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## thepigeonkey

SouthTown Racers said:


> Your birds can get worms from the sand, Ive also heard of birds gorging themselves on sand causing all kinds of problems.


Maybe it needs to be beach sand. The salt should kill the worms and the pigeons wont like the taste.



Freebird loft said:


> I've heard that the fine edges on sand destroys the worm eggs, and Rick Mardis of CBS lofts has sand in his breeding aviary's, check them out
> 
> http://www.cbspigeon.com/video/vd9.html
> 
> http://www.cbspigeon.com/video/vd22.html



I use sawdust in one loft but its dusty sawdust and I want to try sand and because sands free. Maybe a mix of oil dry and sand would work well.



Pigeon0446 said:


> When I do clean my coops all the way I put a layer of beach sand on the floor to start off and let it build up from there. As for more birds being sick in a deep liter system that may be true for the young birds but I'd rather have my birds exposed to everything at an early age so they build up an immunity to things. Instead of them getting sick after the first race when they are in contact with other birds and having to put them on a medication program just to keep them in good enough health to be race worthy week after week. The deep liter system might not be for everybody but for a lazy guy like me who'd rather be on the road training the birds then in the coops scrapping all day everyday it's great. All I know is the way I've been doing things has worked for me.


0446 do the birds eat the sand when you first put it down? Does it cause all sorts of problems?


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## SouthTown Racers

HmoobH8wj said:


> so i pick a beg of oil dry how much should i use in my 4by4?


Just take the bag in their, cut it open, dump it on the floor and spread it around. My guess is that you will need another bag.


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## bigmalley

Im all new to this but If i remember correctly in the 2012 foys catalog the guy (foys owner) said that he used sand and it worked better than wood chips, dirt or pinestraw. and i thought about using sand until Matt said something about this oil dry. Figured it would give the same effect as sand only a great deal more absorbant.


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## Msfreebird

I use 'all purpose' sand in my flight cages. It's the fine sand that they use for mixing with concrete, and have had no problems with it. I rake it over and remove the top layer when needed, then add more. Easily siftable. It comes in 50# bags at building supply stores (home depot), but I got tired of carrying it, so I had a truck load delivered. It's also so fine, that if it does get wet, it dries quickly.


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## Pigeon0446

> 0446 do the birds eat the sand when you first put it down? Does it cause all sorts of problems?


I haven't seen any problems from using the sand. I'm not far from the beach on the south shore of Long Island that has nice sandy beaches so I fill up bags and spread it on the floor. When I first put it down the birds pick out all the bigger peebles and little pices of seashells out. But I don't mind I actually use the the peebles I find on the rocky north shore beaches as grit. On low tide there are veines of tiny peebles along the shore and every so often I go up there and scoop some up. The birds love it and I haven't seen any ill effects.


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## spirit wings

Pigeon0446 said:


> I haven't seen any problems from using the sand. I'm not far from the beach on the south shore of Long Island that has nice sandy beaches so I fill up bags and spread it on the floor. When I first put it down the birds pick out all the bigger peebles and little pices of seashells out. But I don't mind I actually use the the peebles I find on the rocky north shore beaches as grit. On low tide there are veines of tiny peebles along the shore and every so often I go up there and scoop some up. The birds love it and I haven't seen any ill effects.


That would make sense as their ancesters the wild rock doves nests on the rocky cliffs by the sea.


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## HmoobH8wj

SouthTown Racers said:


> Just take the bag in their, cut it open, dump it on the floor and spread it around. My guess is that you will need another bag.


Wow 2 bag?


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## Jay3

HmoobH8wj said:


> Wow 2 bag?


Well how big is your loft? Guess it would be easier to find out how deep it should be?


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## HmoobH8wj

4by4 about 1in deep maybe less


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## Jay3

I don't use that method, but wouldn't you need a couple of inches? Not really sure. Sorry.


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## HmoobH8wj

It okay will put 2 beg down on the floor. For now I have strew on the floor


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## TylerBro

i have a open loft floor plan( almost all wire floor so the poop falls threw ) so this wont work for me ... i put some in the nest boxes and i like the looks of it already ... i may change my floor if fall in love with it ...


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## TylerBro

i bought some oil dry it was under 4 bucks for a 25 pound bag but i read that there is a 2 dollar bag of cheap cat litter that works as well just havent found it in my area with out added chemicals and stuff..


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## Freebird loft

TylerBro said:


> i bought some oil dry it was under 4 bucks for a 25 pound bag but i read that there is a 2 dollar bag of cheap cat litter that works as well just havent found it in my area with out added chemicals and stuff..


Have you tried Wal-Mart in my area they carry a brand Special Kitty all natural clay litter, also the GENERAL DOLLAR store carries a natural clay litter


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## Rabbit

*Not Sure I'd Use This Stuff*

Oil Dry Corporation Of America Out Of Alpharetta Ga. -- The Warning Label Looks Pretty Nasty. Just Plain Old Clay Kitty Litter Might Be Fine But This Oil Dry We Use In Our Truck Shop I'm Not So Sure About.


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## Ashby Loft

Rabbit said:


> Oil Dry Corporation Of America Out Of Alpharetta Ga. -- The Warning Label Looks Pretty Nasty. Just Plain Old Clay Kitty Litter Might Be Fine But This Oil Dry We Use In Our Truck Shop I'm Not So Sure About.


I think you have a different product... this is Oil-Dri










Here's and interesting tidbit I found online...


> Oil-Dri is the largest manufacturer of quality cat litters in the world. Cat's Pride & Jonny CatCat's Pride® cat litters offer innovative solutions to litter box problems, help address specific consumer needs and provide a clean and safe environment for healthy cats.


I'm thinking Oil-Dri is Kitty Litter (without the perfumes to make it smell pretty)


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## Kastle Loft

This is what they are selling at my local Auto Zone. This stuff has the scary warnings. Sorry the pictures are sideways.


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## mncanary

I used to sell oil-dry. The generic term is 'calcine clay'. It is a specific type of clay mined in Georgia (and other places). The clay is heated. The more they heat it, the harder it gets. The lower grades (less heating) are used for oil-dry and kitty littler. The higher grades (more heating) are used in horticulture, ball fields, running tracks, golf course greens and probably a lot of other industries. 

It is just clay, heated to change its properties. There aren't dangers or problems unless you have trouble with clay. 

Dave


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## Jay3

mncanary said:


> I used to sell oil-dry. The generic term is 'calcine clay'. It is a specific type of clay mined in Georgia (and other places). The clay is heated. The more they heat it, the harder it gets. The lower grades (less heating) are used for oil-dry and kitty littler. The higher grades (more heating) are used in horticulture, ball fields, running tracks, golf course greens and probably a lot of other industries.
> 
> It is just clay, heated to change its properties. There aren't dangers or problems unless you have trouble with clay.
> 
> Dave


Thanks for the very clear explanation.


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## TylerBro

Kastle Loft said:


> This is what they are selling at my local Auto Zone. This stuff has the scary warnings. Sorry the pictures are sideways.


 This has Sillica (spelling) it will cause Cancer in humans so i wouldent use it .. oil dry does not have it .. your stuff does dont use it .. the dust from it causes cancer


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## dogging_99

*Pigeon Litter*

What I use under the perches is 25% PDZ granular 73% free concrete sand from plant and 2% DE then just sift with a cat liter scoop lined with 1/4" wire. PDZ absorbs 100 times more than sand, DE kills worm larva etc. sand is cheep holds down dust. I think it could be used for the hole loft as well just build a wire rake to clean once in a while. 

On 80% of the floor I just scrape and sweep unless I'm leaving for extended period.

When I leave for a week I put down floor grill through out hole loft. the 1 1/2" high interlocking kind from Foys or Jedds you can walk on it. I stitched 4 pieces together with hog rings and have 4 sections, easy to carry out, hose off and store away for the next time I leave for longer than 2-3 days.

on my bench window and In my sputnik I replaced the sand with hen box grill that lift and clean up droppings weekly.

Works for me I only have a 7x8 Loft I clean every day takes 15 minutes twice a day at feeding time.


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## Alamo

Been using Oil Dri for 25+ years....I`m still alive,and breeding pigeons...I must admit,if you WALK on it,it will make alot of dust...I only use it NOW,under my perches,in the YB section...No dust at all.....Alamo


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## Birds

Sand to me would be like giving them grit laced with poops ; I have a feeder used especially for red grit , oyster shell and charcoal . Think I will look into the oil dry .


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## thepigeonkey

*If anyone has had a bad experience with sand let me know.*

You would hope the birds only eat the good bits from the sand when you first lay it down and stop eating it when it gets pooped on. 
I'm thinking of filling my boot down at the river or beach. If anyone has had a bad experience with sand let me know.

A few people use sand, some use saw dust, some oil dry, some scrape every day and some just let the poop and feathers build up. As long as the loft is dry, the birds arn't pooping all over eachother, the food and water is clean I guess it doesnt make much difference. 

The type of feeders and drinkers are the important parts. And where you place them.


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## SouthTown Racers

thepigeonkey said:


> You would hope the birds only eat the good bits from the sand when you first lay it down and stop eating it when it gets pooped on.
> I'm thinking of filling my boot down at the river or beach. If anyone has had a bad experience with sand let me know.
> 
> A few people use sand, some use saw dust, some oil dry, some scrape every day and some just let the poop and feathers build up. As long as the loft is dry, the birds arn't pooping all over eachother, the food and water is clean I guess it doesnt make much difference.
> 
> The type of feeders and drinkers are the important parts. And where you place them.


I think you are right. With the winter being as mild as it has been, I have been able to keep my drinkers out in the aviary. I love keeping the water out of the loft because it stays free of dust, droppings,etc.


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## Birds

Howdy Southtown , I have tons of family up your way . I doubt the sand laced with poops would be a problem ; it was just a thought . Think I may try the Oil Dry ; although it was mentioned that it can create dust .


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## Birds

thepigeonkey said:


> You would hope the birds only eat the good bits from the sand when you first lay it down and stop eating it when it gets pooped on.
> I'm thinking of filling my boot down at the river or beach. If anyone has had a bad experience with sand let me know.
> 
> A few people use sand, some use saw dust, some oil dry, some scrape every day and some just let the poop and feathers build up. As long as the loft is dry, the birds arn't pooping all over eachother, the food and water is clean I guess it doesnt make much difference.
> 
> The type of feeders and drinkers are the important parts. And where you place them.


You are absolutely correct . I had a problem with respiratory illness until I learned my loft was inadequately ventilated .


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## SouthTown Racers

Birds said:


> Howdy Southtown , I have tons of family up your way . I doubt the sand laced with poops would be a problem ; it was just a thought . Think I may try the Oil Dry ; although it was mentioned that it can create dust .


Hey, hows it going? I have found that the oil dry only creates dust when you really rake it around or stir it up. Thats why I like just going through with a little kitty litter scoop to clean. That and my loft is very well ventilated. I just open all the windows when I really need to rake or add more oil dry and the dust clears in under a minute.


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## SouthTown Racers

Birds said:


> You are absolutely correct . I had a problem with respiratory illness until I learned my loft was inadequately ventilated .


I have not had any respiratory issues as of yet....knock on wood


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## spirit wings

one could always mix the oil dry with the sand to keep the sand dryer and not get damp in humid weather.


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## Pollo70

Oil dry it is. I use wood shavings works good but it gets blown around to easy. so viva! oil dry I will give it a try also thanks SouthTown racers.


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## atvracinjason

not to mention those wood shavings turn to concrete after they get wet and dry...like leaving your oatmeal bowl out all day...lots of cleanup effort


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## Pollo70

atvracinjason said:


> not to mention those wood shavings turn to concrete after they get wet and dry...like leaving your oatmeal bowl out all day...lots of cleanup effort


Heven't had to much problems with it I sweep it up every 2 days so it stays pretty dry.


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## ERIC K

A friend of mine told me they always used lime in their milking barn and he uses it on his pearches so the scraping is easier. I cleaned today and put down a dusting of lime and then covered it with clay cat liter. I have no smell and the birds seam fine as of tonight. Does anyone elsa use lime. I have heard that the PH is 7 but does that help e-coli or any other bad things ?


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## My-Time

Lime was use in the old days. Here are two products that I use year round. May be a little pricey but worth the money, in the long run. 

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/5072.html
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/7041-7055.html


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## spirit wings

lime is not good respitory wise, even people use masks when spreading the powder kind.

a good product to use if you have some dust when cleaning is to spritz from a spray bottle the loft down to cut the dust particles with oxine... here is more about it.

Aids in the control of Patho- gens, Salmonella, E-Coli, Avian Influenza, PMV, other viruses and Asperqillus. It is also an aid in the control of upper respiratory and fungal infections. It may be sprayed on eggs, in incubators, on birds, misted in the loft, added to the drinking water or used as a disinfec- tant. 7 - 15 drops to a gallon of drinking water. 6.5 oz. per gallon as a disinfectant or mist. Helps control infections, PMV and other viruses.


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## Pigeon0446

ERIC K said:


> A friend of mine told me they always used lime in their milking barn and he uses it on his pearches so the scraping is easier. I cleaned today and put down a dusting of lime and then covered it with clay cat liter. I have no smell and the birds seam fine as of tonight. Does anyone elsa use lime. I have heard that the PH is 7 but does that help e-coli or any other bad things ?


Never use lime in the loft. It's highly alkaline and that's what salmonella needs to thrive. When i had a complaint and had the SPCA check out my loft they told me to put it down on the loft every time I cleaned and I had to tell them I couldn't or more or less wouldn't because it makes the loft ripe for a salmonella outbrake.


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## ERIC K

how about this stuff http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Well, then there is the good ole fashioned litter...made up of 100% pigeon poop. I don't believe this stuff that one needs a heated floor to just use poop. It does have to be dry, and if it is above ground, with fresh air ventilation moisture should not be an issue. Then again, I would surmise that different areas of the world may have more moist weather, and that could be a factor. 

I remember as a kid having pigeons in the 2nd story of an old carriage barn, and plain dry litter worked super. I don't really know where it went, as it never really accumulated, it just sort of went to dust. There was plenty of fresh air and the place was always dry. There was little fuss, and my birds were very healthy. And those were back in the days before there were medications for everything. 

Don't know who may have seen the recent DVD by Ad Schaerlaeckens and his use of dry litter. If I heard him correctly, it has been many years since he has cleaned out his loft. http://www.schaerlaeckens.com/


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Here is the DVD I am talking about. http://www.paccomfilms.com/Schaerlaeckens_p/pf-schaerlaeckens.htm


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## thatshimman

Oil dri also has silica in it as does the rest of the absorbents @ the auto shops... I'm in the process of building my loft now but i'm going the old fashion scrap..

http://www.uline.com/PDF/MS-11683.PDF


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