# young pigeon advice



## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

hello,I need some advice,here is what happened to me:
I never touched pigeon before a month ago but then i found injured teen,he was ove at my place for a week but it died.I didnt know it needs to be feed with a synrge...........
couple of days later i found another one and he was over at my place for two days,he was feed 3 times a day and was doing great,running around all day,he was bout 2 weeks old but he died too............
then one day i look out the window and there was a baby pigeon,about 3 weeks old...........it practicly came to me.he wasnt so small so i bouth hims seed for birds which he was eating,he wasnt very good at it but he was eating it.................and he was learning.....this pigeon was like i m his mom,two hours after i found him he was sleepin on my belly..............and after that he was sleeping on me every day...........he was at my place for 10 days and last two days he was sleeping alot and was peeing water all the time.there was no normal poo..........
and he would sleep and open his beak every now and then like he had trouble breathing................
was that sign of some illness?
also i would like some advice if i run onto another baby pigeon what to do,with what to feed it if i cant find any baby bird formula in the shop?
what food to mix to give it to eat?
here is a pic of the baby bird that lived with me for 10days,he was like a little doggy or something,so nice,always wanted to climb on you,we were learning him to fly and he was getting good and growing really nice........


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

darx23 said:


> hello,I need some advice,here is what happened to me:
> I never touched pigeon before a month ago but then i found injured teen,he was ove at my place for a week but it died.I didnt know it needs to be feed with a synrge...........
> couple of days later i found another one and he was over at my place for two days,he was feed 3 times a day and was doing great,running around all day,he was bout 2 weeks old but he died too............
> then one day i look out the window and there was a baby pigeon,about 3 weeks old...........it practicly came to me.he wasnt so small so i bouth hims seed for birds which he was eating,he wasnt very good at it but he was eating it.................and he was learning.....this pigeon was like i m his mom,two hours after i found him he was sleepin on my belly..............and after that he was sleeping on me every day...........he was at my place for 10 days and last two days he was sleeping alot and was peeing water all the time.there was no normal poo..........
> ...



Darx23, thank you for trying to save these babies. The symptoms you describe sound like a disease called Canker. Not Cancer but Canker. If that's the case, you would need to have some medicine on hand for the next time this happens. 
Usually you can see the canker in thier mouth. It looks like yellow cheesy stuff. It can kill very quickly if not tended to immediately.
As far as feeding a baby pigeon, if it is not old enough to eat seeds on it's own, we all use Kaytee Baby Bird Handfeeding Formula.
Can you tell us where you are? It may be that there is a member that could help out the next time you find a baby and it sounds like that probably will happen.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and welcome to Pigeon Talk,

Thank you for trying to help these youngsters.

You definitely seem to be a pigeon magnet, so it is best you get help from someone with experience and get the meds and nutritional products on hand that you will need.

Pigeons are succeptible to certain diseases that are treatable, its a matter of recognizing some, and/or having access to a good avian vet or rehabber to help you. 

When a pigeon doesn't eat it will go down hill quickly, and also when it is dehydrated. Coccidiosis, canker and worms are common to pigeons, but there are others that need to be addressed from time to time too, it's best to be prepared, and have access to someone who can help you get started. They also need to be kept warm when they are ill and that is why he/she may have krept closer.

Here is the first responder thread for needy/injured or sick pigeons:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi darx23,


There are just an awful lot of things, even with a healthy youngsters who have 'merely' become starved and dehydrated.


...where are you located? 


Phil
Las Vegas


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

hello,thank you all for the advice,unfortunately I m far far away in croatia,europe.
anyway,the thing is there are tons of this pigeons up in the attic which isnt been open for like 50 years,I guess,so its preety crowded up there..........
from time to time grown up pigeons come flying in apartment through one window and out through the other and some of them saw baby pigeons in so I guess they spread the word.......
I was serching on some local forums and it seems like this baby bird formula can only be found in cuople of pet shops,i have two in my hometown so I must check out do they have it,thats why i ask what food to mix in case i cant find baby bird formula............
its tough you know what happened to these three,but what can I do,I cant leave them to cats or idiot people.and putting them back where they came from is virtually impossible.............
i will google those diseases to know more about them
its sad,this little guy was growing rapidy,getting more beautifull every day.......
and the baby bird #2,I guess it could probably be internal bleeding cuz he did fell from the attic probably.........


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi darx23,



If you have one of those little clear plastic top Coffee Grinders, that you put the Beans in the top of and press a button to grind them, where the top part then is the cup you use to pour the grounds out of...


You can gring fresh wholesome Seeds and make a wonderful and nutritious fine powder or coarse, for making formula for infants and Baby Pigeons.


That is what I do...and they love it.


I add other things also.

If you are interested, let me know, and I will post more info.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You can ground up seeds and mix in water as Phil mentioned. In emergencies you can also feed baby cereal.

Reti


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

yes i tried that with seeds and Coffee Grinders but wasnt sure is that ok or there is some better mix.
i have one more question,is our water bad for them cuz of all it has in it and the procces it goes through?
and little tiny bugs that are on them and that they bite all the time,can those kill them?
and what medicines are good for treating pigeon diseases,where can i find info on that?
thank yoou all for help


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Darx, sounds like you could open up a full-time care place for pigeons. Welcome to Pigeon-talk.
If you have any doubts about the purity of your water, boil it for several minutes to kill microbes and other nasties. If you have lots of minerals and what not in it, the best way is to boil the water and collect the steam onto a cool clean surface. This is distilled water and should not have minerals or other natural and un-natural pollutants in it. Of course, the first condensates onto your collection surface will be used to "clean" the surface that you are collecting the water on (or in). After you have a clean surface, then you can collect the remainder of the steam. Chemicals used to treat water (chlorine, fluoride, and ozone are typical chemicals) aren't generally harmful except in excess.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

water is pure,just wanted to make sure chlorine and stuff like that wont hurt them,thank you


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Darx23, 


Never use the 'Hot' tap Water...always use the Cold. The Hot usually contains anaerobes which live in the Pipes betwene the water Heater and the Taps, and these are an unknown as for what they will do esecially to a frail or iffy Pigeon or other Bird. 


The small amounts of chlorine will not harm them, and in many cases will benifit them.


You can send off mail order for 'Hagens' or other powders, and mix them with fress ground Seeds for the best nutrition and wholesomeness.

Many 'baby cereals' contain NO protean, and will starve a Bird to death.

If one is to use any store bought 'Cereal' kinds, read the labels carefully.

"Malto Meal" is good, the plain one...and Pigeons and Doves like the taste of the Malt.

One can also get Malt powders and add those to formula.


Phil
l v


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Do you have kefir/yogurt that is plain and no sugar added? Add a little to your formula as it will do wonders for the youngsters. It will give them good intestinal flora, allowing good gut bacteria to flourish also stops bad bacteria from taking over.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

I was giving them only cold water,thats good.
I was mixing seeds with multivitamin for birds,it had a pic of the pigeon on it,so I guess thats good.
I thought milk related products are bad for baby birds?
nice to know this,thanks


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

darx23 said:


> I was giving them only cold water,thats good.
> I was mixing seeds with multivitamin for birds,it had a pic of the pigeon on it,so I guess thats good.
> I thought milk related products are bad for baby birds?
> nice to know this,thanks


Milk is bad for pigeons, but a little kefir/yogurt (or probiotics) is fine and even necessary for youngsters or any bird that is sick. It's not really milk anymore, but a culture.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i found this in one of the topics above,same thing happened with my pigeon,what this means:
"Every now and then it will start rubbing it's beak on my fingers wanting food, and then after I give it only a tiny bit it wants to go back to sleep before I can feed it more. "

is this sign of some illnes?
mine was like that all the time...............


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i found a new baby pigeon,maybe 2 weeks old lots of yellow feather on him,there is something weird and dry on his beak and he has trouble breathing opening his beak and making high pitch noises,please help fast


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

that thing on his beak stinks like hell,dont know what itz is
i warm him and put some water on his beak,he takes it but it falls of from the side of his beak,like he cant swallow it


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Most likely it is canker and since he is breathing heavy the chances of him to survive are slim. Do you have Flagyl (metronidazole), Spartrix or any of the "zoles" medicines?
He needs some asap.
Keep him warm and give him some water with an eye dropper.

Reti


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

ok,now he drank some water,drooled some of it but drank some
i removed the ting from side of his beak,i think maybe it was like some sticky paper or something,weird,anysway now his beak looks fine but after the water drinking he was coffing a bit
i did the sock and the rice thing and now warming him with that and a little towel
edit:
now the water he drink is back bubbling up in his mouth
i dont uhave any of those medicines and now is 8 pm so cant go get some


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

his mouth is full of some yelow thing


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i went over to a guy that has pigeons but he wasnt home,i spoke to his kid which is like 8 years old,he said its disease and there are some pills for it,he cant remember which ones but he says they usually die even if they have the pills
should i give him some food and/or water with a synrge or would that kill him/choke him?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Darx, I am so sorry to read about this baby being sick. It does sound like canker and medicine is the only thing that can help it. Can you check again and see if the father is home now and maybe has medicine he can share with you?

Where are you located in case there is a member that could help too.

Right now, I would hold off the liquids and just keep him warm.

Canker can be cured but this baby really needs some help quickly.

Thank you for being so good to help him.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

there is no yellow thing in hes beak now,i give him water and he sunk his beak in and drank it and none of it fell out,he drink it normaly now.
maybe it wasnt canker,maybe he just eat something that he couldnt digest?
i dont notice heavy breathing now,he was walking a bit when i gave him water and now hes in half sleep agaain.
i m in croatia,europe and its really late here............


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Darx, that sounds good and I hope he just had something caught in his mouth. Thank you.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i wanna tryx to feed him,i have bird seed for doves that i can mix in the coffe grinder,hom much mll should i give him with a synrge?
and how often does a 2 week old baby need to be feed?
and what about water?
dont wanna get my hopes up but we will see...................


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

he does this thing when he opens his beak wide and his head up and he do that,maybe like someting is stuck in his throat?
and when he opens his beak i dont see no yellow stuff now


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Could be the canker came off and is stuck further down now. Withold the feeding yet and give him water.
Try again, see if the pigeon person is back and maybe he can give you some meds.

Reti


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

the thing is its soon midnight here and i m not sure this dude is coming back tonight and it aint very close and i should go to sleep soon too so i dont know what to do,he drank some more water now,it was totalyy ok,none of it fell out and now hes eyyes are open,he was streching his wings a bit now hes just sitting,dont know what to do,put him in warm and go to sleep or feed him before i go to sleep?
it seems his crop is empty


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Darx, I think I would still hold off on feeding him until you can get some medicine in the morning. If he is stretching his neck, there is a possibility there is canker further down. 

I know you don't like to see him hungry but at least he is getting water and keeping hydrated so that in itself is a real plus. 

Please let us know how he is doing in the morning and we can deal with feeding him then.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Darx, duh, it just dawned on me that by the time most of us in the states get up on the east coast it will be afternoon in Croatia.

Could you tell me what you will feed it with? A syringe?


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

ok then,but i dont know how long he has been out without food,the funny thing is i found him by the place where a lady with 8-9 cats lives..........
hes well warm now,dont know if i give him food cant he just puke it if he cant swallow it or it would choke him?
how long can they live without food?
this medicines like Flagyl and others,how do you give them to a bird?
if dude dont come back i would go try to find some myself
hope he lives


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

yeah,i would mix seeds with coffe grinder and them feed him with syringe.i also have multivitamin for birds that i could mix in the meal
is that ok and how much should i give him


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Darx, they can go a day or so without food but we don't know how long it has been since he had any. The problem is, the canker can block any food going down and he could aspirate it back into his lungs and die from that. 

I don't know what you have access to in Croatia but here we use a baby bird formula called Kaytee Exact. It is like a powder that you mix with warm water and then you feed them with that.

Here are a few links you can look at that may help. In the first one Cynthia is hand feeding peas (like the kind that come in some seed mixtures) and she just puts them in his mouth and lets him swallow. If you have any frozen peas or corn (no canned) or, if you have any dog food (pellets) you can soak the dog food in hot water until soft but not mushy, break it in pieces and feed it the same way. This may be your best bet - to allow him to swallow on his own. Watch carefully to make sure anything you feed him this way goes down his throat and doesn't accumulate. I would try about 5 pieces at least. But, watch carefully to make sure he is swallowing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

In the next link, Jennifer is feeding a newborn using a large syringe with Exact in it. This is a very good way to feed too but it is using formula. About 5 cc should be enough to start with. 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8404110635196534861&hl=en


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

ok,now i dont know is it better to feed him formula or normal seeds or peas,i think maybe formula would go better,gonna try and see how it goes,thank you


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

darx, I know you're probably in bed by now but I wouldn't worry about the multivitamin right now. If you have formula it has all the necessary nutrients in it. If you're grinding the seeds to make a mush then you could put in vitamins.

If you can get plain yogurt where you are you can also add about 1/2 tsp of this to the formula. It will help its tummy.

Hoping for a good report tomorrow. Again, thanks for caring.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

this morning he flew out of the box which is half meter high,he was walking around and flying very good,i feed him some seeds,i went to buy him medicine,when i came back there were 3 little seeds in his beek below his mouth .I managed to get them out with some help.but by then he was already very bad,he couldnt stand right and his head was fallin and he was losing his orientation,I knew he dont have much time,i feed him a bit with a synrge and gave him some water but he was already half gone..........
its like his tongue is glued to his upper part of the beak and below is some food and yellow thing that is stuck there,i put him in his little bed to die,at this point his head couldnt get up anymore,falling all the time,its horrible,i cried my hearts out,hes still dying,i wanted to kill him cuz hes in much pain but i didnt,hes still lying halfdead,i just hope this ends soon
dont know why this happening to me,this is #4 sick baby that died


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

darx, I am so sorry you are going through this. So often, those of us who do rescue work get in pigeons that are very ill and nothing we do seems to help them recover. Your little one sound like he had a very severe case of canker and, being so young and small, could not overcome this disease. 

He probably used the very last of his reserved strength to fly today.

Be proud of yourself for caring enough to at least try. If you don't have the proper medicines about the only thing you could do was keep him comfortable.

Since you are finding sick pigeons with some regularity now, you may want to get some medicine to have on hand, plus formula to feed them.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i went over to look at him and he was lying ,hes head was down and his wings were spread like a little angel,he was still alive,so we went for one last desperate try and managed to get most of the yellow stuff out but by this point i think he already lost his mind and then poo started to come out,i guess his muscles were dying and then i noticed someting unfortunately i didnt notice before;his right cheek was hard solid like concrete ,i think tons of canker or food stuck there and became solid with time
can this happen with the watery meals given to a bird?they stay in and get solid and that kills him?
anyway at that point i even thought of cutting him to get it out but 2 seconds later little baby closed his eyes for good,he died with his little wings spread on my moms hands,may he rest in peace


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

darx, again, I am so sorry. Canker is a disease I really, really hate. Fortunately, the majority of pigeons we have gotten in with canker have been treatable - simply because the disease was not so far advanced. But, I have had several doves with this disease. Their mouths, throat, beak, and nostrils were so full of it that even though they still tried to eat, the food just piled up inside their mouths. It was not a pretty death for them either because I think they literally choked to death. 

Canker seems to run through a flock and the weakest, like babies, get it. Since you have had 4 sick pigeons that may be happening where you live. That's why it would help if you could get some canker medicine to try to help those that are no so advanced like your baby was.

Bless you for caring.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

yeah,hes cheek was full of it,so when is the season of laying eggs over?
i dont wanna go out till it ends
i know now what to use if it happens so i will be ready if it happens


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry your baby didn't make it. I've been through that somany times. Canker is a horrible disease in birds and causes so much suffering.
Bless you for helping this little one.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

darx23 said:


> yeah,hes cheek was full of it,so when is the season of laying eggs over?
> i dont wanna go out till it ends
> i know now what to use if it happens so i will be ready if it happens


darx, pigeons don't really have a "season". Around our neck of the woods they lay year round but we get in fewer in late fall and winter. I must say, some of the friendliest and sweetest fledglings have come to us around December/January.


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## SkyofAngels (Jun 28, 2007)

Darx23,
I'm so sorry for your loss, My heart broke reading your post. I can't imagine dealing with it first hand.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

yeah,it was hard as hell but there are lots of people,some of them here,that deal with this kind of stuff on a regular basis,i cant imagine that,i think i m a bit too emotional for this kind of stuff..........
i read somewhere that this canker ,80%of adults pigeons carry bacteria that causes it and then kids usually get it from feeding?
do adultbirds get it too?
also i have a question can watery food when eaten get stuck somewhere in the cheeks and guts and get solid like what happened with this canker?
dont think first 3 babies had canker,i didnt see this yellow stuff on them,as i said first one dided cuz it didnt get enough food,seconds one from internal bleeding probably cuz he was eating regulary and was very full of life,but he did probably fell from the nest which is in the attic.........
dont know what happened with the third one that was 10 days at my place,seemed everything was going fine,but he was clumsy at eating seeds,this last one could pick up a big seed just like that and the third one had major problem even with the small ones even do he was atleast 10 days older than the last one.......
maybe some disease too.....
anyway,thank you all for the informations and support,i learned alot here


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

a pigeon came into my house today and was sleeping on my desk,about a month old,can fly perfectly,since he was asleep and i had guests over i had to took him to move him to quiet area,hes now not afraid of me,there is something just by his eye,it is kind of orange color and looks meaty,now i dont know could it be some bug or injury,hes eyes are ok but he cant close one cuz of that thing by his eye,i put him on the window,he dont wanna go...........he drank water when i gave him


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

darx23 said:


> there is something just by his eye,it is kind of orange color and looks meaty,now i dont know could it be some bug or injury,hes eyes are ok but he cant close one cuz of that thing by his eye,i put him on the window,he dont wanna go...........he drank water when i gave him


This one possibly has avian pox and what you are seeing is a pox lesion. Can you post a picture?

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

wow you really are a pigeon magnet!! is it possible to order supplies from the pigeon supply houses in US from croatia i wonder? it would really be helpful for you to have meds etc. did you get some from that pigeon guy?


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i guess it would b possible to order
what is avian pox?
there is one bug,I dont know its name on english,anyway thats a bug that can get on dogs and humans and be dangerous,thats what I was suspecting...........i was just siiting by my pc and then it came to the window,standing there for about 10mins and then it went sleeping by my keyboard..........
i went to another room cuz I guessed it needs some privacy..........
then we had guest with 3 smal kids so I had to put the pidgey in my hands and move him,I hope now he wont be to fond of humans,anyway this morning it was gone,I couldnt let him roam around the house because i have a little puppy for the last 2 days............
i made 2-3 pics but it was dark and they are all red and not zoomed enough to see it
maybe it comes back,it did have a preety nice nap here....


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

weird thing is his body was fully grown but he had couple of yellow feathers on his head,but was fully grown and could fly like a big bird,that was weird to me,they cant fly like big ones when they have yellow feathers


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Avian pox is caused by a virus that results in wart like growths appearing on primarily the unfeathered areas of a bird. Since it is a virus, there is really no treatment for it other than good supportive care. This is an informative link about avian pox, but the pictures aren't pretty: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00.html

I'm not sure what type of bug you are referring to. Pigeons often have mites, lice, and/or pigeon flies.

Terry


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i think the bug is called thick,thats what dictionary says anyway,the bug that bites on dog and then you can remove its body but the head stays inside............
little pidgey didnt come back,hope it is fine,never pet a big pigeopn before,its incredible how fast they adapt to you and let you hang out with them
i dont think its this avian thing,it was only one meaty thing on it and he was fully feathered,this pics are too drastic,dont think it was this¸
can avian pox thing pass on the humans?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

darx23 said:


> can avian pox thing pass on the humans?


No, but it can be contagious to other birds.

Pigeons don't normally get ticks, but they do get pigeon flies, lice and mites.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

*:*

please if someone could tell me is it possible that baby birds we find outside their enwiroment are by default sick?
today i found beautiful black baby pigeon on the bus station,he was still full of yellow feather and so cute,but his nostrils were full of canker,I d say he has a day,maximun 2days lef,i left him in a big green surface where he wont be in any big danger but unfortunately he is doomed,if he was ok i would take him home,but for him its really too late,he already has big trouble breathing so i just left him there............its just by the bus station so if his parents are around they will see him


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Darx,

It is not always the case that young birds you find are always sick. Unfortunately, that is sometimes true.

I wish we could find you some resources to help these pigeons you are finding. While I, personally, would not have left this latest pigeon there to meet its fate, I can understand why you felt that was best. I hope it will pass quickly with as little pain and discomfort as possible.

Terry


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

what can i say ,it may seem maybe selfish to you but whats the point,hes too bad to be recovered,taking him home can do no good to him or me,i have learned here alot about these birds so basicly there isnt really much i need to know,if i found a relatively healthy one i would take care of him,ofcourse i would but this one was allready doomed,i asked the question about default sick birds cuz if you mention finding a pigeon to someone everybodys automatic reaction is-hes sick...........and also by my experience they usually are.............out of 5 pigeons i had to deal with only one was ok,but he had wing/leg problems,all other were basicly canker,but i didnt have enough knowledge to see the symptoms unfortunately..............here is the little fellow:


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

darx23 said:


> what can i say ,it may seem maybe selfish to you but whats the point,hes too bad to be recovered,taking him home can do no good to him or me,i have learned here alot about these birds so basicly there isnt really much i need to know,if i found a relatively healthy one i would take care of him,ofcourse i would but this one was allready doomed,i asked the question about default sick birds cuz if you mention finding a pigeon to someone everybodys automatic reaction is-hes sick...........and also by my experience they usually are.............out of 5 pigeons i had to deal with only one was ok,but he had wing/leg problems,all other were basicly canker,but i didnt have enough knowledge to see the symptoms unfortunately..............here is the little fellow:


S/he's a cutie, sorry to hear that it was so sick. If you don't have meds, or 
local wildlife facilities that will help w/wildlife (specifically pigeons) when they
are hurt or sick, then the advantage of bringing them home would be to provide them w/a safe environment to 'pass-on' in. Leaving them in a compromised situation many times is an invitation to predators to take
advantage of the compromised health of the bird.

Are you able to purchase medicines locally without a prescription in Croatia?

Thanks for all that you've done to help the pigeons in your area.

fp


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

there is only couple of things i still need to know about and would be gratefull if you help out:
1.names of medicines for canker and how much do they help,at what exact stage its to late for medicines to help
2.when a bird sleeps alot and you feed it and it eats a bit and second later automaticly falls asleep what is that,what disease are these symptoms of?

i think its a matter of focus,dozens of people passed by the little fellow on the bus station,but didnt notice him i did cuz usually i look at birds,pigeons ,crows when i pass by........at first i did took him and wanted to take home but then i saw his nostrils full of it,i atleast moved him to a quieter area very near by,on the buss station there are dozens of school kids passing by and thats not a good situation.............
yeah i can get medicines without prescription
no local wildlife facilities here,while ago i read about a hedgedog that died cuz no vet wanted to see him,and that was in a big city,i m in a small city,so you could say situation is preety bad,i m basicly amateur about birds but probably know much more than local vets ,all they deal with are dogs..........
about the advantage of bringing them home to pass on in a safe enviroment ,sometimes i wonder what is better,choking for hours or get killed by a predator in an instant,and honestly i cant stand looking at poor inocent baby die for hours,been through that once,dont want again,it was the worst experience of my life


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

darx23 said:


> there is only couple of things i still need to know about and would be gratefull if you help out:
> 1.names of medicines for canker and how much do they help,at what exact stage its to late for medicines to help
> 2.when a bird sleeps alot and you feed it and it eats a bit and second later automaticly falls asleep what is that,what disease are these symptoms of?
> 
> ...


Well, I understand that we all do make choices and we do what we can in 
the moment. I had read through the thread before responding, but did want
to mention that. Yes, it's possible to die rather quickly at the hands of a predator, though a pretty frightening death. 

I've had some fairly bad cases of canker and not lost the disease, though I 
need to knock on wood as there is always a first..... Canker birds respond 
very well to canker meds and nutritition. The IRS (International Rehydration
Solution) can be given in a pinch until they are able to drink/eat, also 
watered down baby bird formula can be given in place of solid food.

Here's a list of canker medicines:

Metronidazole (Flagyl, Fishzole)
Ronidazole
Secnidazole
Carnidazole
Dimetridazole

Are you able to purchase veterinary medicines w/out a prescription as well as 
human medications?

Regarding sleeping alot after feeding, this can be a sign of exhaustion that
can be a result of many things. Even being dehydrated for prolonged periods
of time is an exhausting event to the body and all the organs. Try and look
for other things that seem out of the norm and make a list of these 'symptoms' the next time something like this occurs.

fp


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

yes,thank you for the answer,the symptoms i was talking about i had this young pigeon that was over at my place for ten days and then suddenly it was gone one morning.it did sleep last couple of days alot even do it was getting water and eating seeds
i m not sure about veterinary medicines but probably its possible,thanks once again


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sorry to hear that you have had some difficult rehabs that you've taken in. The reason I asked about veterinary meds is in case you cannot get veterinary meds over the counter in Croatia. Many times there is a human equivalent that can be given to the bird. Flagyl and Cipro would be two human use medications that can also be given to birds. Trimethoprim Sulpha would be another good one to have on hand. You could most likely get by w/a handful of medications and provide some pretty good support to the birds that appear to be coming into your life, if you are able to get them. At any rate, thanks again for helping them out.

fp


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

Today i found a big white pigeon,no sign of canker,he is very well feed and showed no signs of resistance when i took him in,i think he may be old granpa because he is big but dont want to fly much or do anything,just sits there.....he also dont want food or water which never happened to me before,he is very calm,maybe he is just on the end of his life road so that is why his lack of energy?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

darx23 said:


> Today i found a big white pigeon,no sign of canker,he is very well feed and showed no signs of resistance when i took him in,i think he may be old granpa because he is big but dont want to fly much or do anything,just sits there.....he also dont want food or water which never happened to me before,he is very calm,maybe he is just on the end of his life road so that is why his lack of energy?


Darx.......you might be better off starting a new thread about this bird. I don't think anyone has seen the post this morning. The bird looks sick to me, but that's probably about all the help I can give you. Sorry..........


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Darx, I agree with Renee. Start a new thread about this pigeon. He is definitely sick.

You need to keep him warm and give him the standard rehydrating water. 

Do you have medicine for worms and coccidiosis? Also, even if his throat is clear he could still have canker farther down. For one that looks this ill, I would start it on Baytril right away in case of a bacterial infection. You can also give him a wormer later in the day.

What do his poops look like?


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

how do you give them these medicines?
i can go and buy it now
his poop was first solid,green-white color and then later green liquid like he has diarea
and can you tell me name of medicine for worms and coccidiosis?
thank you


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

darx, we use Pyrantel for worms and Sulmet for coccidiosis. If you have a feed store where you live, call and see if they have any medications to treat worms, coccidiosis and bacterial infections. 

I'm going to ask one of the moderators to move this to the sick and injured forum where more members may see it.


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

thank you,i will go and buy them now ,in the meantime please tell me the way to give them this medicines,thank you


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Darx,
I'm going to move your thread to the 'Sick & Injured' forum.

Cindy 

Thanks for the heads up Maggie.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Darx,

Most of us will have no idea what products are easily available to you there in Croatia or what they will cost. Two that you should look for are Metronidazole (Flagyl) and Enrofloxacin (Baytril) or its human equivalent, Ciprofloxacin (Cipro). 

The Sulmet that was mentioned above is a "Sulfa" drug. That means it's in the Sulfonamide family. They work well for a variety of bacterial and protozoal infections that are common with pigeons. Sulmet is 12.5% Sulfamethazine and is widely commercially available here in the United States and several other countries. You may be able to find it and you might not, can't say. However, there will be some kind of Sulfa drug(s) that you can find there in one form or another. They may be in a human pharmacy (drugstore) or you might find them in what we call a "feed store", where they keep different types of bulk food for various commercially animals (cattle, poultry, etc.) as well as some medicines. 

If you can find these drugs (and they have different uses), then let us know what it is and we can probably work towards finding you the correct dosing for pigeons. It's very difficult to say what your current bird is suffering from without the benefits of tests so we often try to give antibiotics that will cover as many different things as possible in the hopes of saving the bird.

Pidgey


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

i went to try to find these medicines and i also went to the couple of vets,they dont have Pyrantel or Sulmet,vet says strictly pigeon drugs are hard to find here but some vet pharmacy may have it,i will try tomorrow with the vet pharmacy they should have atleast something,i hope pigeon will be alive till tomoroow ,he did finaly drank some water,if they dont have it i will try to find Metronidazole (Flagyl) and Enrofloxacin (Baytril) .its 9pm here.....not much i can do than to wait till tomorrow


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Metronidazole is for Canker and some anaerobic infections that you probably would never be able to identify but might occasionally suspect. In most of the world, the best place to get it is at a human pharmacy. Here, we can get it for fish and sometimes for birds at stores in larger cities. The pigeon supply houses keep it and we can get it through the mail very easily. For you, it's more likely that you're going to have to get it at a people pharmacy.

Enrofloxacin (Baytril) is for a wide range of bacterial infections that they can get and it is the veterinary equivalent of the human drug, Ciprofloxacin. Cipro is generally more expensive but just as effective. It's also said to be easier on the stomach. Anyhow, it can cure a lot of diseases and is a very powerful drug.

The Sulfa drugs are more basic antibiotics and aren't as powerful or as wide-spectrum as Enrofloxacin. The will help with some things that Enrofloxacin won't, like Coccidiosis. That is a disease that in its worst presentation will ulcerate the inside of the intestinal tract. What you'll usually see is a sick pigeon that's not wanting to fly, losing weight and has droppings that are not right. Unfortunately, those symptoms are common to a lot of different illnesses.

Pidgey


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

then i can also try to get Ciprofloxacin,pidgey is sitting all the time,when i put him in my hand and then want to put him on some surface at first his head kind of falls down when he is being put on the new surface and then when he is on it with both feet then he stands normal,but basicly all the time he sitts and maybe a bit unnatural position,maybe his front part is a bit more faced down than usual,i have no idea what could be going on or how long he gonna stay alive,he is like his tamed from the first time i took him,very weird,no resistance at all,usually pigeon would be afraid for the first couple of minutes when you take him...........


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, it's pretty easy to see by the pictures and your description that he's very sick and possibly beginning to die. You can take pictures of the poop and post those and that can help with a diagnosis, too. Occasionally, a bird is dying of starvation and/or dehydration, and giving them a brief home with abundant food and water can save them. But, sometimes, the only thing that's going to save them is medicine. Frankly, sometimes those of us who are trying to help you will have differing opinions which medicines to use and we can even get into fights over it. You kinda' have to take that in stride and do your best under the circumstances. For many of us, though, and in many circumstances, the battle for the life of an individual bird will be only be won in advance of getting the bird in the first place: that means that if you don't already have the drugs in your posession or readily available, you might not find them in time to save the bird. That's what it means to be a rehabber.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

HBi darx23, 


This is a young Bird, not an 'old' one...and he is either ill or injured or starved for some reason...

Warmth...adequate rehydration with Electolytes...small Seeds if he will eat...


Probably getting him on the ACV-Water would be good...so in fact, just use that 'as' the electrolytes...but add a little Sugar or Potassium salts if you have any ( people with high blood pressure use a 'salt substitute' which is Potasium based instead of Sodium based...much better for any dehydrated Birds...)


How are the poops? color? Size? Consitancy? How may so far or in 24 hours?

Keep him on a white Towell to make seeing the poops easier...

Possibly he has been starving and his system is shutting down.


Check his Throat in a good light, looing for any Canker signs and for general color...is it 'pink'? Dark color? Or...?

Is his Vent clean?


Best wishes...

Phil
l v


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

birds throat and nostrils are totally clear,he definately aint starving,he is very big and well fed,are you sure he is young,his eyes are black only in middle and has orange around,like big birds............poo is green and liquid
i just got up,bird is almost dead and totaly lost her mind,i ve been through this before,he has maybe an hour or two left,its falling already,his orientation is totaly gone............
he probably feel down on grass when he started to feel really bad and thats when i found him..............its a shame i only find already really bad birds,who knows maybe he eat some rat poison or something........
the bird also cant eat,i put small seed in its mouth and it cant eat,dont know why is that


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Darx23,


Sorry to hear things are not looking good...



Possibly this is some order of bacterial enteritis, late stage Coccidiosis, or at any rate, some ind of infection/inflammation of his digestive tract...and this can cause them to loose their appetite of course.


Do you now how to palpate a Crop to feel if there are any non-passing old food in it, or, foreign objects? Though probably that is not the issue here...


What meds or regimen have you done so far?


Is he willing to drink?


Try and keep him hydrated with the ACV-Water...offering it 'tepid'.


What meds to you have access to?

Has there been a lot of liquidy-green poops or just a few small ones?


Phil
l v


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## darx23 (Aug 27, 2007)

it passed away maybe an hour after my previous post,his crop was full,he seemed well fed,he drank water once and couldnt swallow seed when i put it in his mouth,his mouth is pink color normal,there has been a massive green liquid poo,he was probably as i said already very bad when he landed on the grass where i found him,if he was alive i would go and buy medicines,this is like a curse i dont want to be a bird rehabber but they come in my life,this is #6 in the last 5 months,only one made it........if i buy medicines now i would just attract that in my life,i m kind of thorn here. the reason why there are so many of them is because there is a whole flock living in the attic of the building which hasnt been opened for years and they live there on maybe a feet or two of old poo,there are atleast 40 of them on this building and the one besides,they are on the roof during the day,getting their tan


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Darx, 



Oye...


Sorry


It is not easy, or sometimes it is, and other times it is not.

Some things are easy once one is used to them and has the drill...but even then, that is not necessarily what one is going to end up having on one's hands of course.

But, if you felt like it...maybe get some meds for treating some of the basics, Coccidiosis, Canker, vague systemic infections or Cat/Dog bites...and...with some practice, some more experience, the average will start to climb.

It's hard on one's spirit to wish so much to help, but to be at a loss for the kind of help they need, or even to now what they need.

And of course, by the time we get them, often, they are on their last legs, and one has to guess one's best and hope for the best as for what meds and how-come they are ill.

But, you, me, anyone doing this...is the only chance they do have, so...



Best wishes...

Phil
l v


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