# Trouble with neighbors



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hello everyone,
a few weeks ago I posted about the neighbor living below me, complaining about the dirt my pigeons were doing. Anyways, I put up spinwheels along the railing so they don't sleep anymore on my balcony, I also stoped feeding them completely 3 days ago. So the mess is much less than it used to be, but the poor little things still come to my balcony, hoping that maybe they get some food. I still have Frankie and Jerry in their open cages, and Albert, a new baby I found in the parking lot where we live, he could not fly, probably he fell off from a balcony (or was thrown off).Albert is flying now, but he comes back into his open cage. I feed those guys at night when no other pigeons are around. As I said there are still some 10 pigeons hanging out on the balcony once in a while, but a whole bunch of them stay in the tree in front of us the whole day.This morning the neighbor was trying to catch them with a big net, I lost it and asked her what she is doing. She yelled at me telling me she is sick of the pigeons, it is my fault, and I probably have rats too. The babies flew away, but came back later, they were sitting on the tree minding their own business when she started shooting at them with a BBgun. The birds left, but they keep on coming back and she is shooting for the past 3 hours every time a bird lands on the tree.
My husband is concerned that we are in trouble bringing the pigeons here, I am concerned for the babies. Frankie and Jerry and Albert are out there since this morning and probably not able to come back home. Can we complain about her shooting from the balcony?
I don't know what to do, for the past three hours I have headache and nausea from the stress. I am terrified she is going to hurt somebody.(Besides all that, tommorrow I am taking an exam)
Is there anything I can do to stop this?

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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is terrible! You have certainly not done anything wrong. I don't know whether her shooting at the pigeons is illegal over there , but I would certainly complain about her to everyone that you can contact: police, animal welfare organisations, the building management (her shooting is a nuisance and is disturbing you), other tenants. She sounds as if she is derranged to me.

Cynthia


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

This woman is not in complete control of her faculties making her very dangerous. I hope that she doesn't start shooting at you and for that reason, I'm urging you to file a complaint with the police. If you actually witnessed her shooting with a BB gun, it is quite illegal. Molestation of wildlife is also quite illegal so if you choose to pursue this, she is probably going to be in a bit of hot water with the authorities.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you so much for your fast replies,
I will certainly pursue this, I am waiting for my husband to come back, should be soon, and then call the emergency number for the management. I did see her shooting, I was on the balcony when she started doing it. For now she stopped and Jerry is back. My husband is not sure if shooting with BBguns is legal or not here in Florida, but I have a wildlife rescue number and I can call them up.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks again
Reti

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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Reti,

Here in Florida where I live, it is illegal to shoot any kind of BB gun, anywhere in the city limits. You can call the police and file a complaint.

I'm sorry you have to put up with this kind of behavior, you have had a time of it, taking care of all the needy pigeons. They are not as compassionate as you!

How is Angel and Tiny, by the way..?
Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Treesa,
thank you for asking about Tiny and Angel, they are both doing great,they are ignoring eachother.Luckily Tiny bonded with my husband.
I just had a horrible fight with my neighbors, Lee, my husband called the management and they said also that it is illegal to use the BB gun, they are going to take care of it. So I thought I clean the balcony really good, she and he started yelling and yelling and yelling. I always throw dirt on them and bla,bla... which is not true, I scrub on my hands and knees and I am so careful especially since the last time they yelled, I use three rolls of papertowel each day to clean, I don't use a broom just not to get any dust on them, and they still complain. I've been crying since this morning, my head is going to explode. I don't even care anymore if they evict us. I don't know what to do with Frankie, Jerry and Albert. They are all back and I locked them in their cages, and they are going crazy, trying to squeeze themselves through the bars.
Thank you all for your support.
Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi again,

I'm glad to hear angel and Tiny are doing well.

I'm sorry you had to deal with your neighbors. Don't let them bother you. You don't have to tollerate their use of BB guns, as it is against the law, within the city, around wildlife and humans! 

You have done so much work to help the feral pigeons, and have so much compassion for them, that it is hard to understand how inhumane some people are.

Just talk gently to Frankie, Jerry and Albert and let them fly when things calm down.

I salute you! Treesa


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry you're enduring this awful situation. As the others said, I'm sure it's illegal to shoot any kind of gun within city limits. I'm praying the police will put a stop to your neighbors, and that no one gets hurt.


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

I'm sure that it is considered animal cruelty to shot any animal, even our dear ole pigeons.

I'm sorry that you have shed many tears and have been tortured yourself by this nasty neighbor. I wish I was there with you to lend a shoulder.

Julie


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## karen1 (Nov 24, 2002)

I live in Minnesota so I can only speak to our state laws. But I know here you cannot discharge a gun within city limits, even a bb gun. I would notify the local law enforcement. Looks like you live in Florida and I can bet you can't discharge a firearm in the city limits there either. 
Good Luck
Karen


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## Thunderbird (Sep 7, 2003)

Why don't you offer to buy & put up an awning over her balcony/porch-then everybody is happy.
Chris


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Your situation sounds terrible Reti! Your neighbors are crazy. Here's some help on the eviction situation (I'm going through some stuff with my landlord) before you can be evicted you must be served a 30 day notice to quit, If you fail to vacate the housing in that time then an eviction can occur. At least this holds in California, I don't know about where you live.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you all for your replies, you've been so supportive and helpful.
We can't put any awnings or screens or anything that is not approved by the management. It is a rental building only.
We left a message on the answering machine for the animal abuse investigation, we are waiting now.
The management did not say much, other than not to feed the pigeons anymore. We agreed, what else can we do. But they saw I put up the spinwheels, so that's a good thing, and they know that it takes time for pigeons to stom coming. So I did not have much trouble with them.
Now, as if I didn't have enough headache already, I cought a pigeon on my balcony which was walking backwards and falling over. She was easy to catch. I had seen her before, her head was jerking when she was eating and I thought she has PMV, I never could catch her though, she was still fast. Today when I came back from my exam she was in front of the door, I picked her up, gave her vitamin B complex, pedialyte and put her in a cage, and put a deep dish with seeds and pedialyte.Her cage is in a bathroom where there is not much trafic and Angel and Tiny and my cat have no access.
What else can I do? I just couldn't leave her on the balcony to die, is it possible she can make it? Should I give her antibiotics? Her name is Beth.
Reti

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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi again, I just got a letter from the management. Said news, I have to get rid of Frankie and Gerri ans Albert. I have them for almost two years and I love them. They are happy to have a home and food. I cannot just destroy their home and throw them out.
What am I going to do? If anybody has any idea or advise, please help. Those little babies deserve better than that.

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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry about management's decision! Are they free flying pigeons already? Maybe they can be rehomed.

If Beth has PMV she should recover in about 8 weeks, but it would be better if after that she went into a sheltered environment.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Reti,

I'm so sorry about Frankie, Jerry and Albert. Don't stop feeding them, just yet. Maybe you can keep them indoors until they can be relocated.

You did the right thing taking Beth in. She obviously came to you for help. Do you have Baytril? You can give that to Beth. 

Let us know how you're doing. Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Good morning everybody,
Frankie and Jerry are a ferral couple that won't stay in a locked cage more than a few hours, also they have 3weeks old babies, I think they will be soon ready to fly. I feed them at night now, so they won't attract other pigeons. At 6am I clean out their cages so there won,t be any seeds left to attract the other ferrals. It would be impossible to keep them indoors, besides that they would go crazy , I would then have 7 pigeons in a 2 bedroom apartment. That would get us in trouble for sure. 
Is there a relocation program for ferral pigeons? I live in Florida. 
Also I would like to know if there is a law as for keeping pigeons as pets indoors. I am concerned for Angel and Tiny. They live indoors only, they are vaccinated, tested and completely healthy. I have all their papers from the vet. Treesa, I think you live in Florida, are my babies safe? Could anybody take them from me?
The neighbors put out fliers last night concerning pigeon diseases that they transmit. I guess she downloaded the article from some website, it included 60 diseases including vaginal candida in women. Anyways I guess soon everybody in the building will file a complaint. So I guess the headache is far from being over.
I appreciate any advise and thank you again for your support. You,ve been all so helpful.

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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi again,

You should start checking and see if you have a wildlife refuge or sanctuary in your area where they allow feral pigeons. Check with your avian vet and see if he or she can help you. Once Frank and Jerry's babies are fully capable to be on their own, you will need to relocate them.

As far as your babies being safe,dear, Did you sign a lease, did it specify if you could have pet birds or not? Check it, and if you are confronted with it, try to work something out with the management. Your pigeons ARE YOUR PETS and there should be no distinction made. They have had their shots, and they are incapable of living on their own in the outside world. I would let anyone who inquires know, that Angel and Tiny and Beth are domestic pigeons and are YOUR PETS. 

I keep my birds outside in a coop, fortunately we have are own home, and I don't have to worry about where I keep them. I haven't had any problems with the neighbors, it's been 3 years since we started with the pigeons. When they fly they have been trained to come right in, they do not hang out on the neighbors houses.

I would do everything I could to keep my babies, even find another place.

I wish I lived near you, I would help you out. I'll ask my rehabber if she knows of any bird sanctuaries around here.

Your neighbor is definitely trying to make trouble...but she doesn't have all the facts either! Pigeons can carry disease, you know that more then anybody, but not that many are going around, and her list probably includes all birds, not just the ferals.

Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you so much for your reply, Treesa.
I am searching the web for wildlife sanctuaries. I do know of one in the keys, where I took a rescued duck in, 2 years ago, they were very nice, but they do not take in healthy pigeons. I keep on looking. Poor Frankie and Jerry, they don't even hang aroung other balconies, they fly and come back to their cage, maybe once in a while they hang out in the tree. They have no reason to go to other balconies.
As for Angel and Tiny I do have all their paperswith treatments, vaccines and they have bands. In the lease it specifies, we can have birds as long as they don't bother the neighbors (by being too loud, I was told). Pigeons cannot make too much noise, we all know that. We can have no dogs, because they bark and bother people. But if it comes to that we move, I guess. The only reason we cannot move right now is the financial part, that is the only reason that we are trying to stretch it. As soon as I get an offer on any of my job applications, we are out of here. But that I will know by march 15.
Thank you again, I'l keep you updated.
Oh, the police called back, asked for information about the shooting. I don't know yet what happened.
Also I started Beth on Baytril.
Regards
Reti

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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Reti,

It sounds like Frankie and Jerry have learned to "home" at your balcony, they are dependent on you for food.

I talked to my rehabber and she said there is a bird sanctuary named Flamingo Gardens in Miami. She said they take in wild birds that are not handicapped. It is supposed to have a giant open aviary. She said if they don't take any feral pigeons, perhaps they can recommend to you other wildlife organizations. I checked out the website, the place is like...Sea World..or something.
Here it is http://www.flamingogardens.org/ 
Their phone # is 954-473-2955.

Sounds like the lease will work in your favor! If they don't even specify any particular kind of bird, you are in the fine. As far as Beth goes, she just needs time to rehabilitate, and you are keeping her in a seperate room for now. 

My rehabber said your area has a lot of pigeon people, lots of clubs and lots of people who race pigeons. Check out your phone book and see if you can locate any pigeon clubs. They probably won't deal with ferals themselves, but might be able to recommend people who are rehabbers. That is how I found out about my friend, who rehabs all wild life here.

Treesa


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Oh Reti,
I am in tears & literally sick over your situation.

I would absolutely not take one step backwards regarding this woman who was shooting the BB gun. I can't think of any city where is it legal to shoot any type of gun. In fact, if this were my situation I would make a 'citizen's arrest'. This woman could have killed you. 

Please keep us updated.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm glad that your contract supports you in being able to keep your pets. I'd suggest calling your pigeons "doves" when you go out looking for a new place, it just makes life easier. They're rock doves after all...

That crazy woman with the BB gun needs to be locked up.

Take Care.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

There is a lot of anti pigeon rubbish produced by pest control companies...well, there would be, wouldn't there! But this is an excerpt from a debate on pigeons and the risk they pose to human health in our House of Lords;

*Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, advice from our veterinary team states that although diseases are carried by birds, those diseases are likely to be conveyed to human beings only when they are in prolonged contact with pigeons; in enclosed spaces or in the presence of dust from feathers or guano; and when eating food contaminated by pigeon droppings. None of those conditions applies in Trafalgar Square. *

John produced a very official leaflet explaining the true facts about pigeons. perhaps we should make a few copies for the other tenants in your building, so that they are aware of the facts?

Cynthia


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Your neighbor is just insane. I'm quite sure that no one in your building, or anywhere near it, has gotten sick from pigeons, why would they start now?

Not all neighbors are fools. They are all probably laughing at the signs. Saying what kind of fool has put these up? So, don't worry too much about the signs. 

Although, I myself would take them down because they just are not factual. I have never heard of a woman getting a vaginal disease from pigeons. True, pigeons can get a yeast infection, but it's not for women it's for pigeons. Your neighbor needs to get her facts straight before putting up dumb signs. 

Julie


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Reti, 

In regard to pigeons and diseases, I posted some real facts from the CDC in Atlanta, and other experts, on the topic headed

*Lady Told Me At MY Daycare To Stop Feeding*

May be of interest in refuting the trash talk this neighbor is spreading

John


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hello everybody,
Thank you Cynthia and John, for the quotes, I printed them and I am going to post them.Also I found a very useful Statement on the website of the National Pigeon Association. The statement is from the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians and states pretty much the same like John's quote.
Nothing developed yet. I don't know if the police did anything after I talked to a detective yesterday. As for the manager, she thinks she does me a great favor not having us evicted, she believes pigeons transmit diseases and we are all in danger.
My liitle guys seem to have gotten the point, all there is left is Frankie, Jerry and Albert, which were so hungry last night they even came into the apartment and had dinner. They waited all day, as soon as I opened the door they marched in, heartbreaking. They must have been starving.
Treesa, thank you so much for your information, I have 3 numbers I am going to call in the morning.
Thank you again everybody, you've been of great help.
Reti

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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

On the (now somewhat rare) occasions when I'm home in the evning before the pigeons retire for the night, I 'invite them in' through the balcony door for food, too. That way, no-one can complain about me feeding pigeons 'on the balcony'. They are quite happy to eat off the doormat

John


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