# Hawk



## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

I go out this morning and there is a hawk sitting on my aviary....A coopers.

How lame I have 8 birds that are still learning to fly. Should I keep them in or try evening trainings? I am a little paranoid since last they were out they went flying to the loft and I looked an saw a coopers in a tree 20ft from where I was standing. That was early in the morning though.

I have no trouble keeping them in but I think it is important I work them before they get older.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Grim said:


> *I go out this morning and there is a hawk sitting on my aviary....A coopers*.
> 
> How lame I have 8 birds that are still learning to fly.
> 
> ...


I don't free fly my birds, but if I did, & saw any indication of a hawk nearby, especially sitting on my aviary, my birds would be locked up tighter than a drum.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm a little surprised you would even think abut flying your birds having seen the Hawk on your aviary.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Well when you have flying birds they have to start flying before they get to old and to strong on the wing. 

The obvious answer is don't let them out yes I got that. I have to though because they need to train. They are already older then I would like them to be since I have been so busy working. So would any experienced flyers recommend evening flying around 40 mins before sunset? The hawks would probably have fed and are roosting by then?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Grim said:


> Well when you have flying birds they have to start flying before they get to old and to strong on the wing.
> 
> The obvious answer is don't let them out yes I got that. I have to though because they need to train. They are already older then I would like them to be since I have been so busy working. So would any experienced flyers recommend evening flying around 40 mins before sunset? The hawks would probably have fed and are roosting by then?


You said they are still learning to fly. Does that mean that they HAVE been out before? or they haven't been out of the loft yet. How old are they exactly?


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

To be honest I don't keep track of how old they are. Once they are weaned I pick them up and put a dab of red nail polish on their heads. I used to do the toenails but it would wear off to quickly. Since I only have one loft and 'one' section I put a red dot on every bird that needs to be trap trained so I can keep track of them and tell them apart more quickly.

I have 8 that are inexperienced with 6 of the 8 having been outside already. (The other 2 are still to young, they have that chubby appearance)

They are already strong on the wing so to speak in that they can fly very fast. I usually train them before they can fly gracefully. So far they are doing short erratic flights in about 12 feet distances. Mostly on top of my house. They have yet to go up into the sky. These are going to be release birds so I am trying to get them trained to fly with my older birds ASAP. I also have more babies in the nest and more to hatch. 

I also want them to learn in case a hawk does attack they need to have a chance. A bird that hasn't even flown high up over the loft is going to fly off and either fly into something or get lost. So I am not going to let a hawk ruin my birds training because hawks are out their and that is a risk flyers take but at the same time I want to keep them safe and I am not looking to feed any hawks.

I guess you could say is I am looking for advice. Also when I release my older birds these young ones just watch them. They have no desire to fly with them.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Grim said:


> Well when you have flying birds they have to start flying before they get to old and to strong on the wing.
> 
> The obvious answer is don't let them out yes I got that. I have to though because they need to train. They are already older then I would like them to be since I have been so busy working. So would any experienced flyers recommend evening flying around 40 mins before sunset? The hawks would probably have fed and are roosting by then?


As far as afternoon training goes, that is the only time mine get to fly because I have to be at work so early in the morning. Many flyers fly their birds in the afternoon.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, for what it's worth.............I've always "trap trained" every bird before I let it out of the loft. After that, they're pretty much on their own and the first one or two times out, I just hold my breath and hope for the best. On the 10th of May, I went to an auction and bought 3 youngsters. I already had 50 birds that were out flying. I put those 3 youngsters in quarantine for 10 days, moved them to the yb loft and kept them there for 3 days. They went through the traps twice I believe. Then I just put them out with my other 50. It's been almost two weeks and they're still here. If you've got older birds, then I wouldn't worry too much about what the younger ones do, because for the most part, they are going to do what everybody else does. If you KNOW a hawk is in the area, then you keep your birds inside, but just because you don't SEE one, doesn't mean there's not one there and it could hit into your birds the second they are out of the loft.
When you fly your birds, you can only do so much to protect them. A lot of their protection is their own instinct. They are born with the knowledge that hawks are bad news. How, I don't know, but they know the first time they see one that it means trouble. 
And.........there is nothing wrong with flying your birds in the late afternoon. I do believe though, that young birds need to be kept on a schedule. They come to expect you to do certain things at certain times of the day and when you change it every day, it confuses them. 
Either fly them every morning, or every evening or both, but don't do one time one day and another time another day. It gets their feed schedule off and I believe you stand more of a chance not getting them to respond to you when you call.
You can guard the younger ones when they are out too. Unfortunately, my landing board is so high that when mine are out, there's nothing I can do but just watch them and hope for the best.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Note the time*



Grim said:


> I go out this morning and there is a hawk sitting on my aviary....A coopers.
> 
> How lame I have 8 birds that are still learning to fly. Should I keep them in or try evening trainings? I am a little paranoid since last they were out they went flying to the loft and I looked an saw a coopers in a tree 20ft from where I was standing. That was early in the morning though.
> 
> I have no trouble keeping them in but I think it is important I work them before they get older.


Coopers are fast fliers and one of few that is likely to catch a pigeon. I have them too and have seen them sitting right by my coop, trying to figure out how they can get in (which they can't). I have watched them catch sparrows and other birds in my yard.

Birds of prey tend to hunt certain areas the same time of day and learn when they have had success there. This also means that they can adjust to your flying schedule.

Young and inexperienced fliers are the most at risk for hawk attack.

Hawks have always been a concern to bird breeders and they have always been around. It does seem that they are getting either more plentiful or maybe they are just adapting to developed areas as the open fields they once hunted disappear.

This maybe isn't too much for advice but it's about all I've got. 

Bill


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Thanks for everyones input. I went ahead and flew my 10 older birds today. They flew high and fast and then I noticed in the distance only four flying in their own group. I thought it was really odd so I went over to get a better look. As I did I saw three crows chasing a hawk and the hawk dove on the four birds. It singled out a white one and chased him low below the trees where I couldn't see. I then saw the hawk come back up with the 3 crows behind it. 

The 4 birds shortly after made it back and trapped. about 20 mins later the other 6 returned and trapped. So I have a resident hawk which probably has babies. I am definitely switching to the evening.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Here they are hard at work


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Hooray for the crows. They are the best hawk deterrent that I know about, especially for Cooper's hawks.

Margaret


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Yes they are very slow though. They were far behind the hawk but any distraction is helpful. Luckily the birds are in great shape and shook the hawk off.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Grim,

I had a hawk on my aviary today, and it scared everyone inside. 

I would definitely leave some food out for the crows to keep them coming back. I'm glad your birds made it in safely.

That is an absolutely lovely picture, thanks for sharing!


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

the problem with having crows around is that they will pick on your birds too ,I have had more young birds scared off the loft by crows then hawks as well ...I have one crow around here thats a complete and udder pest and it plucks the feathers off my birds if he gets the chance .. as far as chasing hawks off yes they are good for that when they are around but coopers seem to have a way around them for the most part ,at least here they do  I have even had a crow fly into my loft when I had the door open for fly time and it took a wooden egg out of the nest and flew off with it , those things arent cheap


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

haha. They are timid around my home.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Crows are egg thieves and baby eaters*

If we invite crows to stay around our pigeons, we are asking for a whole new set of problems. I admire them for their intelligence and their strong family bonds but they can definately wreak havoc on any other birds, especially with eggs and young. I would not invite them to my yard as long as I was trying to raise any kind of birds or wanted song birds to be able to raise their own young.

They do chase hawks and so does every other bird except for the pigeon (and a few others). Has anyone ever seen a crow actually injure a hawk? It may appear that they are driving it away and it is likely that an entire group of crows could drive one away but for the most part, I believe that crows are nothing more than a minor nuisance to any hawk and they look at them like we look at mosquitoes or flies.

Smaller birds also chase crows. Do the crows leave? They move along just as they please and once in a while make a dodge maneuver, like we might do to avoid a fly in the face. I don't think that they fear them whatsoever.

Bill


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, the crows and mockingbirds in my back yard chase away any hawks, and I welcome their help! I have a big female Coopers that is relentless about coming to my yard and terrorizing my birds. The crows and the little mockers run her off while she will stand and glare at me until I get the hose .. then she knows she is gonna get sprayed and will take off. She leaves quickly when the crows and mockers go after her. Me, she will challenge until the dreaded hose comes out.

Terry


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

thing is in spring and summer time everything is chasing away hawks due to nesting and territory borders , but once fall hits and all the fledglings are off migrating even the crows are of little help because they only care about whats around them at the time so once again your birds are on their own


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*That is interesting*



TAWhatley said:


> Well, the crows and mockingbirds in my back yard chase away any hawks, and I welcome their help! I have a big female Coopers that is relentless about coming to my yard and terrorizing my birds. The crows and the little mockers run her off while she will stand and glare at me until I get the hose .. then she knows she is gonna get sprayed and will take off. She leaves quickly when the crows and mockers go after her. Me, she will challenge until the dreaded hose comes out.
> 
> Terry


I'm surprised by it but whatever works. The crows around here don't seem to intimidate hawks at all but they do bother them.

Enough people have made this claim that it must be true at least in some cases. I live in an area with a huge crow population and the hawks around here have no fear of them at least as near as I can tell. Maybe they are just more used to each other. Maybe our crows are less tenacious? Who knows?

I guess if the crows would keep the Coopers out of my yard, I might encourage them to stick around as well. I've had both Coopers and Redtails on my coop and in a tree just a few feet from it. I've had Goshawks too but I've never seen them around the coop. I did see one catch and eat a robin in my yard.

Bill


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Just spent the last hour watching a hawk chase my birds.........
Far as I can tell, he didn't get one. Every time I saw him dive and go out of sight, I'd think,...yep, he got one that time, but then 30 seconds later, he'd be back so if he caught one I would expect he would have stopped to kill/eat it. After about an hour, he just sort of flew off and hasn't been back. I think my birds gave him a run for his money this morning.  We watched him circling over head, with the birds WAY WAY up high above him, then he'd disappear and out of no where come out of the trees after them again.
Guess I'll know tonight when I do a head count.


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## roller (Oct 25, 2007)

Has anyone ever seen a group of pigeons chasing after a hawk? Does this sound wierd because I've seen it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

roller said:


> Has anyone ever seen a group of pigeons chasing after a hawk? Does this sound wierd because I've seen it.


I've heard of it happening, but have never seen it. My birds go as far away as possible when they see a hawk. It was kind of neat watching them this morning flying so high above the hawk. I don't really have much of a hawk problem, so thankfully, don't have to witness this sort of thing very often. Sure is scarey, but pretty neat to see the hawk miss and finally give up and go else where.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm one who credits our crow family with keeping the smaller hawks away. We do have our red shouldered hawk couple that visit regularly and the crows can't do much with them but pull their tails. However, these hawks never bother the smaller birds, rabbits or squirrels. 

Yesterday morning I put out some chicken for the crows and while they were eating one of the hawks flew down to the pan and the crows scattered. They will "lurk" around the hawk about 5-10 feet away and sneak in a bite every now and again. Apparently the hawk's mate was in a tree and got tired of the crows aggravating its mate while it was eating and swooped down on the crows scattering them everywhere. It was funny to watch. The crows came right back though. I have seen the crows gang up on the hawk but the mate usually comes to the rescue.

I love all birds - can't help it if they are hawks and crows. I figure if I can feed them it not only helps them but keeps them from eating my baby songbirds. Blue Jays will also eat baby birds so where do you draw the line..


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

I see your time without a hawk problem has finally caught up with you and I am sorry to hear that Good thing they are far enuf along the way to have the ability and smarts to outwit them .. My problem has always been with when my birds are coming down and hitting the traps, thats when the coopers here always hit my birds and up up an away they go ... Then they go thru that process of coming down all over again just to be chased back into the sky all over again, talk about stress  Im feeling ya on that


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

the crows around here are pretty brutal on the nesting song birds .I have to say I see parent birds chasing off crows as best they can without much success all the time ...once they find a nest they devour everything in them which is really sad as I am very much a bird watcher and if its not one thing bringing down the numbers of songbirds its another.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Lakota, I agree with you. Songbirds particularly have such a hard time. Even the ordinary Cowbird plays a part in killing them by throwing out the songbird's eggs and laying their own eggs in the nest so their babies are raised by the songbirds. I have seen a family of Redbirds with about 2 of their own babies and several Cowbird babies following along. The parent Redbirds feed them just like they do their own babies. It is a wonder we have any songbirds left with them having to fend off other birds, cats, dogs, snakes, etc.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

roller said:


> Has anyone ever seen a group of pigeons chasing after a hawk? Does this sound wierd because I've seen it.


I have seen my birds do this but only when the hawk is in casual flight. It seemed more to me they were following the hawk to make sure they knew where it was and where it was going.

Now the attack I saw take place, the hawk was well above my birds and dove onto them with my birds diving as well to avoid him. He singled out a single bird as the others broke to the side and regrouped.

Lovebirds let us know how that head count comes. I do the same thing after every toss.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Grim said:


> I have seen my birds do this but only when the hawk is in casual flight. It seemed more to me they were following the hawk to make sure they knew where it was and where it was going.
> 
> Now the attack I saw take place, the hawk was well above my birds and dove onto them with my birds diving as well to avoid him. He singled out a single bird as the others broke to the side and regrouped.
> 
> Lovebirds let us know how that head count comes. I do the same thing after every toss.


I just came in from counting. All are present and accounted for.
1 for my birds. 0 for Mr. Hawk.................


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Awesome. It truly is quite an adrenaline rush to see your birds get attacked but it is also quite amazing to see how the birds maneuver and out fly the hawk. I luckily have lost no birds yet and hope to keep it that way. I just need to manage them at better times. I am glad your birds showed the hawk they are no easy meal!


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## TheGame (Apr 17, 2008)

Why aren't the crows and other song birds afraid of the hawk?? Can't the hawk easily turn them into a meal?


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