# I don't know what to do anymore!



## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

My pigeons, they hate me. I have tried so hard to be gentle and loving and soft, but they hate me more than anything. If I opened my window they'd fly away and never, ever come back, I swear. I see no more quality of life. It's terrible. I can't even catch them and return them to their cages after a full day of them flying around my room and ruining my carpets. I love them so much but it has only become a war between human and bird. If I have to keep chasing them, trying to catch them as softly as possible every night, I'd have to keep them in their cage all the time...Oh, what can I do, what can I do...?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Vasp said:


> My pigeons, they hate me. I have tried so hard to be gentle and loving and soft, but they hate me more than anything. If I opened my window they'd fly away and never, ever come back, I swear. I see no more quality of life. It's terrible. I can't even catch them and return them to their cages after a full day of them flying around my room and ruining my carpets. I love them so much but it has only become a war between human and bird. If I have to keep chasing them, trying to catch them as softly as possible every night, I'd have to keep them in their cage all the time...Oh, what can I do, what can I do...?


Maybe you are an ALIEN like Alvin. His birds hated him too! 

OK, I'm teasing you (but NOT Alvin!). 

How do you intereact with them? 
How many do you have? 
How much room do they have? 
Do they have individual cages? 
At what age did you get them. 
Are they all Ferals? 
Are they all males?
Do you try to work with them one at a time?


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

How do you intereact with them? 
I speak to them softly and often sing to them until they fall asleep. 

How many do you have? I have 2 of them.

How much room do they have? They have my whole room. >.>

Do they have individual cages? Nope, share the same one.

At what age did you get them. Eggs.

Are they all Ferals? Yes.

Are they all males? I think, er, one of them is, maybe both.

Do you try to work with them one at a time? Either way I've had no success.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Maybe they don't like your singing! (Sorry, Vasp, my humor bug is really "bugging" me tonight)

I'm sure others will be along with helpful advice. 

We usually advise patience. *How old are your birds?*

Males can be very aggressive, especially towards each other. If they see you as a male too, then...BITE/ATTACK time!

Sometimes, my Squeaks will attack me and I'm his MATE!

Perhaps separating them in different cages and working with them separately. Try to hand feed using a snack they really like...safflower seeds? Hemp seeds?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Vasp said:


> My pigeons, they hate me. I have tried so hard to be gentle and loving and soft, but they hate me more than anything. If I opened my window they'd fly away and never, ever come back, I swear. I see no more quality of life. It's terrible. I can't even catch them and return them to their cages after a full day of them flying around my room and ruining my carpets. I love them so much but it has only become a war between human and bird. If I have to keep chasing them, trying to catch them as softly as possible every night, I'd have to keep them in their cage all the time...Oh, what can I do, what can I do...?



Hi Vasp,

I'm sorry the youngsters seem to be quite rambunctious and wild, but you know that is how they are. They are feeling their oats and are quite healthy and happy and have lots of energy to burn. They are feral by nature and are just doing what nature dictates.

My two 2006 youngsters, especially my Satinette, Sigmund will bite the heck out of my hand when I want to hold him, and Charley, my young hen, just flies away when I try to talk to her and want to hold her. They are just being normal pigeons who keep a healthy distance from me. I love them too, and I get NO respect.

Perhaps they need a change of scene, an outdoor aviary where they can enjoy life outside and excert some energy and enjoy the weather. Also, they will settle down with time, especially if they find mates.


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

Hey, Vasp,

I've found that having my loft just tall enough room for me to walk around in at my full length, kind of forces the pigeons to look at me nearly face-to-face all the time and they've come to know me fairly well. I do have pigeons that prefer not to be near me, but when I say that I mean "cuddle with me".  My point is.. They get to fly loose around your room, a few feet above your head. When you're grasping at them from below, they might view it as predatory. Don't get me wrong, aerial "attacks" are predatory too, but being face to face with them works nice. Like everyone has said, they're being regular pigeons, doing what they do best, lol. I hoped this helped some(Although, it's not like you can lower your ceiling).


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## Baby Goose (Oct 10, 2006)

*feeding makes them friends*

Just about any creature will eventually love you if it associates food with you. Im very new at pigeons, but I have a successful background in training animals. My baby Goose is very tame and he comes right to me when called. He never misses the call and is at 100% success rate. 

Pull all the birds food out of cages and make them come to you for their feedings. (feed them by hand if possiable) IThis is how I worked with GOOSE:

I put Baby Gooses food in a glass jar with a lid that I can shake when I call him. I practice with him several times a day to come to me by shaking his food jar, calling his name and a whistle. I extend my arm for his landing and feed him just a small amount from my hand with each success. (you have given him 3 sounds to hear for his call...shaker, whistle and name) 

This doesnt take long...hungry Birds will flock to you and they will learn very quiclky that you are a loved source of TREATS! 

also, keep your fingers twirling and playing in their food as much as possiable when they are eating. They will stop pecking you when they realize you arent there to hurt them and they will eventually relax. Build trust by always having your hands near them as much as possiable. 

Hope some of this helps. 

Laurie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Vasp said:


> I can't even catch them and return them to their cages after a full day of them flying around my room and ruining my carpets. IOh, what can I do, what can I do...?



I was just looking back on what you wrote, and if you are allowing them free flight around the room all day, they are going to think it is their territory and will aggresively let you know it is their territory when you walk in the room. 

They DO NOT hate you, they regard you as an equal which is a compliment. They are acting out completely normal behavior, as the male/or males thinks he owns the place and you are fair game when you step into his domain.

If you let them free fly the whole apt. they will fight with you when you walk in the front door. It is the nature of the beast.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Poor Vasp!! You've gone to all this trouble raising them and now you have ungrateful little teenagers! * First thing, don't feel bad!!* This is absolutely 100% pigeon behavior, even from babies hand-raised. Yours are still pretty young and are just being ornery teens. Especially if they have the run of the room and think of it as their territory, which you can't really do much about since it is good for them to have as much room as possible.  Every bird I've ever raised from a baby has gone through this stage. Every single one. They do the pecking, biting, slapping, "angry" cooing, etc. They're just testing their wings, ha ha. Just trying to figure out their boundaries, and their relationships, etc. 

Keep talking to them and spend time in "their" room. If you have a couch or chair or TV in there, hang out and spread some treats around your lap and the couch, as if you don't even know they're there and you're having a snack of raw safflower seeds yourself.  They will come to see you, especially if it's at night time, and start hanging out with you again. It will get better as they get older. I know you have put in so much work and it can hurt your feelings when they don't seem to appreciate it (all your hard work) or you. 

A good way to catch them (if you want to put them in their cage) is to do it in the dark. Turn off all lights in the room and then you can just pluck them up from wherever they are, and put them away. Chasing them around during the day won't work because they're too smart.....they would much rather be out in the room than in the cage! I know from personal experience; my first ten pijies were raised in the house and all went through this behavior. 

After a few months (I know it sounds like a long time, but they will get better every day a little bit), they should be tamed down again. And no matter what they act like, they know good and well who feeds them and who takes care of them, so you are important to them whether they act it or not. Keep tempting them with the treats and singing and talking, and try to be patient. Keep in mind they won't be like this for too long (though they will probably always do the hand-pecking, which is a universal sign of pigeon love ). You've done an excellent job with them so try not to be discouraged by their normal behavior. Just hang in there and wait it out a bit.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Maryjane - off topic - just noticed you've hit 500 and are now a matriarch! Congratulations.  

Vasp, just keep paying them attention and hand feeding and I think they'll do just fine.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Rambunctious pigeons*

I know some teenagers like that.

They even told their parents they hate them. (No doubt, message was loud and clear).

Then the next minute "I love you Daddy" (means can you give me money, car keys, whatever).

My rescued-and-hand-raised male pigeon *Wieteke* was like that. Usually acted as if I didn't exist. Comes to the window for hand-outs (he's livng outside wth his feral mate *Mamieke* now). Still attacks my hand, even as I hand him his food. 

One thing you can and should do: if they're healthy and happy, CELEBRATE!

Larry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Maryjane - off topic - just noticed you've hit 500 and are now a matriarch! Congratulations.
> 
> Vasp, just keep paying them attention and hand feeding and I think they'll do just fine.



YAY!!! I'm going out to celebrate. My whole family thinks I'm such a nerd.  But I'm excited!!


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Vasp, 

I have many pigeons, some I have hand raised from babies, and some I have nursed back to health. I have two that will fly on my head or shoulder, but as soon as they see I have no food they're gone. I tried Victor's famious command of arm! They just laugh. I can never catch any of them unless it is pitch black outside and I have to climb to get them.

I even had a PMV victim that I carried around and held him up to eat and drink. The day that he could eat on his own and could hold his head up he became a pigeon. Never to look back and say "hay I remember you". The day he joined the flock I lost him. When they hear my food call they go to their lofts where I feed them. None will ever be my pet like Mr. Squeaks and Jesse. They belong to each other. I heard that when you get a bird a mate then he is less your pet. I think if you kept one pigeon then you would have a better chance of having him love you. 

Good Luck and when you find a way into their little hearts let me know cuz I have been trying to squeeze in there forever.

Feather


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Feather said:


> Vasp,
> 
> I have many pigeons, some I have hand raised from babies, and some I have nursed back to health. I have two that will fly on my head or shoulder, but as soon as they see I have no food they're gone. I tried Victor's famious command of arm! They just laugh. I can never catch any of them unless it is pitch black outside and I have to climb to get them.
> 
> ...


Well, Feather, if Squeaks could fly, I'm sure he would probably be JUST LIKE Vasp's pijies! AND, there ARE times he will attack me - hard! Of course, I AM putting him back in his "home" and he doesn't want to go! What a temper that bird has...So, even MATES get it sometimes!

And he's soooo cute, one would NEVER guess the temper that lies within!!   


HEY, MJ, CONGRATS! I didn't know I was a Matriarch either until I was congratulated! Those little numbers sneak up on ya!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Feather said:


> Vasp,
> 
> I tried Victor's famious command of arm! They just laugh. I can never catch any of them unless it is pitch black outside and I have to climb to get them.
> 
> ...


I'm laughing too Miss Feather! 

It is the style and technique.

Steps:

Get as close to the pigeon as possible.

Slowly extend your arm out and keep it still.

Put seeds or treat on area of arm visible to pigeon

Point to area of seeds wit free hand.

Command Arm Pigeon (name of bird) Arm!

Be patient it takes time. 

Perhaps use the shaking of a small seed container of safflower or unsalted raw sunflower seeds which most (except my Rosco misfit) just love to make them understand that "candy" is being served.


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## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

You so sound like a candidate for a cockatiel!!! Now those little birdies will love you beyond anything you could secretly desire!!!! as for Pigeons, it's true, they've got eachother... they've got us, but the admiration they have for us just may be something they talk about when we are not around. You need to *know* that you are loved simply because you are the source of "everything" good. You are doing an excellent job supplying them with all that they need to live a healthy pigeon existence... if you really need the feedback, try a cockatiel... that is a bird that will be the extreme opposite to the aloofness of a pigeon's love... I think I will write a song... The Aloofness of a Pigeon's Love... La la la... Keep singing to them! one of these days you will "just know" how much they love you... By the way, my birds get skinny when I approach... they flock to the farthest point away from me when I enter the loft... but they watch me fill that feed dish and they fly to it before the door closes! Food is the answer and the key! Good luck.


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Well, I was looking into getting a new pet bird...Y'know, one that would love you...
But I was looking sort of for a companion for LIFE. You know, the parrots that die after or close to your death? Yeah, if I want a loving bird, I want one that is not going to say good bye hopefully for a very, very long time.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Vasp said:


> Well, I was looking into getting a new pet bird...Y'know, one that would love you...
> But I was looking sort of for a companion for LIFE. You know, the parrots that die after or close to your death? Yeah, if I want a loving bird, I want one that is not going to say good bye hopefully for a very, very long time.


Just a comment, Vasp...hopefully, you already know this, BUT, please do your homework on the type of bird you may want.

There are too many heartbreaking stories of people getting parrots or other exotic type birds and not being able to keep them because they had no idea how loud they were, how much attention they needed, etc.

Of course, this is true of all animals, but birds for sure...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

*one of your pigeons looks like*

exactly like sir duchess:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/duchess/

Aias




Ashbel said:


> Hey, Vasp,
> 
> I've found that having my loft just tall enough room for me to walk around in at my full length, kind of forces the pigeons to look at me nearly face-to-face all the time and they've come to know me fairly well. I do have pigeons that prefer not to be near me, but when I say that I mean "cuddle with me".  My point is.. They get to fly loose around your room, a few feet above your head. When you're grasping at them from below, they might view it as predatory. Don't get me wrong, aerial "attacks" are predatory too, but being face to face with them works nice. Like everyone has said, they're being regular pigeons, doing what they do best, lol. I hoped this helped some(Although, it's not like you can lower your ceiling).


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## Ashbel (Jul 1, 2006)

sabina said:


> exactly like sir duchess:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/duchess/
> 
> Aias


Holy smokes, it's Roscoe's twin, LOL. Very nice bird you have there, heheh.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Vasp, 


Yahhhhh...Pigeons, even we raise them from tiny Babys, and have all those weeks of tender deferences and affectionate interactions, and enjoy their affections to us, they are sort of supposed to claim their emotional and logistical independance as an endemic of their kind more or less around or a little before puberty sets in. They do this with their own parents, and their perants with them, and once flying decently and self feeding they and their parents both elect to have little or nothing to do with one another...and for them it is the correct poise and self-posession to claim and achieve.

So, when we raise them, when we become their 'parents', it should be no different really.

Many as individuals will however be quite friendly, but they typically need to have their complete, even haughty independance first.

Mostly, I deal with adult ferals, but also of course many logistically orphanned Babys, and I'd say about 1/3 of those Babys are very friendly into sub-adulthood, and some even after that, but by then they are almost always self released to the ourside world. Their make up requires their independance, and we do well to respect and be sensitive to it so it can occur naturally for them at their own pace.

We do not want to lure them with affections when they are becomeing pubescent, or they will fall in love with us and regard us as their mates, and this of course is not fair to them nor to the independance from us they should have for their impending feral/wild Life.


I have a crippled Pigeon here, who I did not raise, and who was a youngster that was very wild and wacky and he wanted nothing to do with me, which was easy, since he was a self feeder and so on, flys decently, manages well in here without my help.

But somehow, recently, he decided to be friendly, and now, if I even look at him ( her?) they visibly brighten, and welcome attention and being preened and so on. He lands on my head or shoulder and is content to nap there or day dream.

Maybe they are naively thinking I am potential mate? This can happen! And we think, "Oh! What a friendly Pigeon!"...Lol...but it does not seem like that, so, maybe it is just an easy affection and friendlyness afterall.

Pigeons I get in who are adults, injured or ill, usually become friendly-enough in a little while, but do not tend to seek attention from me, but some will seek out my company in odd ways, once they are in free-rove mode after convelesent cage-time, such as their sleeping at night on my legs or hip bone while I am sleeping, or, sleeping a foot away from me on the bed.

Sometimes I wake up in the morning and there are two Morning Doves, four or five Pigeons, and a Cockatiel all arrayed here and there, several on me, others laying close in various folds of the blankets or sheet.

My Laundry service is amused, even though I 'flap' the linnens well and so on before dropping them off.

If I stirr, or gently turn over, they stay put and make their adjustments, but if I look at them, most of them fly off...Lol...

Some feral Adults, while still in their convelesent Cages, will come to the front of the cage when I ask them if I may come in to change Seeds or Water, and they welcome a little neck preen or double Wing hug or Keel Massage or other small affection gestures. But these always become totally 'wild' again once out of their Cage time phase...aside from sleeping on me or the likes.

Someone gave me a feral Cockatiel a few months ago, and I must say, she is the sweetest and most charming little Bird. She seeks affection and gives it also, and is all round very sociable and easy to be around in every way. She likes to be a Shoulder-Bird, and usually flys into the other rooms if I am doing somehting in them, to see what I am doing.

She is a beautiful sight when flying in here, and is neat and tidy in her habits.

If you would like a Bird who is a joy in all these ways, but who also likely in fact needs emotionally and physically interactive and reciprocal others for her mental/emotional health, likely a Cockatiel would be a fine choice for you.

Oddly enough, I have two Morning Doves in here who are due for release, and for some reason, WILD and SKITTISH as they had been, they both decided one day to be really friendly, and have since then been frequent shoulder-Birds, ear and whisker preening Birds, and sleep on me or next to me Birds, and love being preened or kissed or picked up and briefly hand-hug-held.

I did not seek this, but some of it started when I needed to get them off the COmputer Keyboard, so I would just pick them up and set them over to the side, then I realized they liked being picked up.

Really, this is not a good thing at all for them if they are to go back to being wild, but it happenned or I let it happen, so...golly...

I have NEVER seen Morning Doves be this way, and I am baffled.

Usually, you can not even look at them without them getting freaked out or being poised to bolt!

So you never know...


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, delightful post. I wish someone could get your picture with all your guys sleeping with you!

Doves, for the most part, are extremely skittish but we had one for 9 years, Mr. Dove (Mr. D for short) who was non-releasable. This little fellow was one in a million and tamer than any cockatiel we have had. His greatest desire was to stay with me wherever I went and I loved him in return. He was probably the best bird I've ever had and even tho he died very suddenly about 3 years ago, I still miss him. They can be very, very sweet.

I think Vasp just needs to give his little guys time. They're still very young.


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Hi Phil,

So I am not the only one who has a bird/s who shares the same human roosting spot!

Jax normally finds her own place to sleep as she has no cage, but after leaving her nest a few days ago, she has spent the last two nights sleeping on top of my shoulder! I haven't had the best 2 night's sleep and no doubt neither has she with all the tossing and turning although I am consciously aware that I have to turn over slowly to minimize her disturbance!

I think after sitting on her nest for so long (2 clutches in very close succession) she has forgotten where to sleep. She has also done this before. Despite the lack of sleep, I feel privileged that she wants to be close to me and is comfortable and trusting . I don't care so much for the morning poop on the pillow though!

Speaking of bed, it's time to go to mine as it's late here. I wonder if I will have Jax tonight...I don't see or hear her, so hopefully she has found her own bed tonight.

Lindi 

Lindi


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I firmly believe that there are certain people in this world who are bird or animal or both "people."

Phil is one I call "Dr. Doolittle." His posts about his relationships and techniques with the birds never cease to entertain and amaze me. Whatever the communication used, works.

Terry Whatley is another who works with many different kinds of animals and seems to have that "something special" rapport.

Maggie and Lewis are a couple who come to mind. Nabisho, Pidgey, Victor, Pigeonmama, Cynthia, John, Kittypaws, Larry, Feather, Cindy, Lovebirds, Trees Gray and so many more on this site who have my utmost respect and admiration!

St. Francis of Assisi does, indeed, come in many guises!

THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO and keep "talking to the birds and animals!"


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie, Lindi, 


Lol...

Somehow I am a gentle sleeper, and I finally just gave in, too. 

So, when I want to turn over, I just do so slowly, and I can feel various of them then making their adjustments or climbing 'up' to the new 'top' of various places on me.

What is so funny with this, is that these are often totally wild/feral adults who would not let me get anywhere close to them once they have been in free-rove a week or so, yet they do this..!

And, of course there will be poops!

I just give the Sheet or Blanket a good flap or two outside, brush off the more adherant ones, as with the Pillowcase, and call it 'macaronii'...as well as change the linnens more often than I would have otherwise...

Oh yeeeesh, I wonder what I will do if I once again meet some nice gal, fall in Love and am not sleeping solo?

I can only hope she likes Birds.

That, or too, I could make a sort of smallish indoor 'people-iary' for us to be 'in'...to surround the Bed, have some head room and so on, and maybe that would work...

Lol...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## karla (Jul 8, 2006)

I have the same probleam with my Pigeon, but now I trick him  
He has his special toy ,( his mate ) . So I touch him with his toy 4 times and them I put my hand and he gets confuse for a while jijiji and I enjoy petting him and he puts his beak on my two fingers to feed me.
Then when I took his toy away , he come back to his bad attitud .
But I could not give him up, I love him the way he is!!
I got him since an egg , he is my baby bird forever!!!!!
Last week I took him outdoor , to see his reaction or just to make sure what he really wants, it turn out he didn't want anything to do with the outsite world, he stayed in my arm and didn't flight out , he came inside right away  
They love us, they are happy to see us around , they know we feed them , they know we love them. We are their parents!!! It is just their nature, to be the way they are.
Best wish for all of you
Karla


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

"Oh yeeeesh, I wonder what I will do if I once again meet some nice gal, fall in Love and am not sleeping solo?

I can only hope she likes Birds.
Sometimes I wake up in the morning and there are two Morning Doves, four or five Pigeons, and a Cockatiel all arrayed here and there, several on me, others laying close in various folds of the blankets or sheet.
"


 Phil, you have to find a girl who has a KING size bed  

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1087218601046182405JOljiG

 Suz.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Poulette said:


> Phil, you have to find a girl who has a KING size bed
> 
> http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1087218601046182405JOljiG
> 
> Suz.


Great photo, Suz!

Terry


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Try using the feed to train them. Say you let them out of there cage in the room To get a little exersise. have NO feed they can eat except in the cage water also. When youy want them to eat and go in the cage You open the door and coax them with feed. Soon they will know If they are going to eat they must return to threre cage.. Far as being flighty its there nature. The more they learn to trust you the tame they will get. Use a perch for them in the room that you can walk up too And pick them up. But feed is a powerful training tool. I even come when its time to eat. They will too. Good luck


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