# New patient at the bird repair center



## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

She an adult Goshawk. She was found wantering around on the ground starving with her two main tailfeathers missing (probably someone pulled them) and a massive G.I. infection from eating road kill. Luckily we got her in time to save the follicles and treat the G.I. infection and her new tailfeathers have started to come back in. She will have to stay with us over the winter until the spring molt but all looks good for a spring release out at Stillwater wildlive refuge far far away from any pigeons. She will be dinning on fresh rodents and etc. from now on.

NAB


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

who pulled the tail feathers?


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*We're surrounded by reservations here*

Many of the down birds we get every year are the result of people trapping and pulling the tail feathers and/or primary feathers and then releasing the bird back into the wild. These people have a special dispensation in the endangered specias act that allows them to "collect" feathers from Eagles, Hawks, Owls and other normally protected species. They use the feathers for their cerimonial garb and arrow flights etc. Many make a lot of money each year making this stuff and selling it and they do it legally. All we can do is try our best to treat the victims. Not all do this and some even raise babies from eggs and take those feathers instead of trapping wild birds so they are not all bad folks. But I really wish they would move into modern times and use synthetic feathers to make their headdresses and leave the birds alone.

NAB


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh, .....you mean native Americans....


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*Slang words changed*

and old NAB is gone.

NAB 

And yes pulling a raptor's primary or tailfeathers is almost always a certain death sentance when the bird is released back into the wild


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Well, I read Nab's post before he changed the wording and took no offense. My great grandfather was a full bloodied Native American. 

I care a lot about both Nab and Renee but I honestly think this could have been handled more appropriately through a private message from either Renee or Treesa. The only reason I am posting this openly is because the deed has already been done. As long as Nab has been on the forum and with the contributions he has made to wildlife in general, I don't feel he meant anything derogatory toward Native Americans. I hope this doesn't result in his no longer contributing to the forum.

Nab, many thanks for saving this beautiful bird.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving, Nab. I did want to hear how or what you have to do in order to "save the follicles".

Pidgey


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Me too. .I want to know about the proceeder, please come back... 


Nell


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

What I've read and heard, is many 'Amarinds' or 'Indigees' or whatever one is supposed to call them now, steal the Eggs from nests, hatch them artificially, 'raise' the Birds for however long, and then harvest all the Flight and Tail or other Feathers they want, killing the Bird.




'Peace'...


Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They often pluck the kept bird's primary and tail feathers until the follicles simply won't grow a feather anymore. Then, of course, the poor bird is left to die.

Pidgey


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*I wish you all well*

I apologize to anyone offended by the term I used in reference to a certain sub-group of Native Americans. It was not used in reference to all Native Americans, or Indians in general it was referring to a small sub-group of Native Americans that purport to be the friends of Mother Earth and the keepers of all that is natural and good. Those who communicate with the wild beasts etc. I’m sure we have all heard the mantra. But these people as soon as the almighty buck is involved they are willing to maim and cause some of nature’s most majestic creatures prolonged and agonizing deaths. It is my position that the term I used to describe this sub-group is far less derogatory than the murdering money grubbing hypocrites deserve. I will not show respect for people that do the sorts of things that I have seen done to such beautiful creatures over the years. I guess I have been cleaning up the bloody excrement left behind by this sub-group of Native Americans to long to have any respect for them at all. If you choose to respect such individuals that is your business and you have to live with your choices. I will be comfortable living with mine. 

Here’s another majestic lady in the pen next to the Goshawk. She had basically the same thing except instead of tail feathers this group of Native Americans that we should refer to with respect pulled her two main (first & second) primary feathers on each wing. If you look closely you can see her new primaries are still about 4 inches shorter than the one remaining primary. It was nice of them to leave one primary so she could fly well enough to go somewhere else and enjoy a prolonged and painful death. She too was found on the ground starving and nearly dead from a G.I. infection the result of eating dead tissue. She has been with us for about 4 months now and will remain over the winter hopefully to a joyous release come next spring’s molt when all her feathers are equal and her balance is once again perfect. Pigeons eat seeds and seeds don’t move, these birds have to be 100% in order to survive and hunt successfully in the wild. Anything that can affect their ability to fly at top speed with perfect precision is a threat to their survival. This lady requires two hand feedings and watering a day, 7 days a week for the next 4 months or so. That doesn’t count the twice daily application of anti-biotic cream to her follicles and insertion of Baytril tablets that went on for the first two weeks she was with us. Ever try to put 3 Baytril tablets down one of these throats and not get your arm ripped up or eye poked by a wild wing slap? This is a lot of hard and often hazardous work folks so if you wonder why I have no respect for those that are the cause , now you know. As for the so called “Native American traditions” well I say such things as slavery were once acceptable traditions even looked upon as status symbols at one time in this land, but that is no longer the case, and a lot of people died changing it. No one has to die to fix this ongoing tragedy, only a small sub-group of greedy Native Americans have to give up their easy money and their murdering practices and the decent Native Americans will have to ban real feathers being used in their ceremonies. When I see the decent Native Americans stand up and demand this stop and those doing this stuff have no market for their wares then perhaps I will have a little more respect. I look at a person or a group’s actions, what good they do for society and then I decide if I should have respect for them or not. In this case I choose NOT! This is a wonderful place and I will miss it greatly, however I cannot participate in a forum that requires I treat people I have seen murder God’s most beautiful creatures for money with respect and dignity. They are not worthy of anyone’s respect and they certainly have no dignity. 

NAB


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Nab, 


I agree with what you say. Inhumane treatment of any bird or animal is inhumane treatment and should not be tolerated no matter what our ethnic history or religious beliefs. Just because something was done one way in the past does not mean it should continue now. If we continued in some religions to practice what was done in the past, we would still be burning people at the stake.


Margaret


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2008)

hokahey ...the white mans world is not that much different and they revear very little on top of the eradication of all things wild , look to the tragedy of the wolf and you will find all things wild die in vain in a white mans world without purpose everyday, so sad ... not pointing fingers here just stating its a worldly way ,not just certain folks out in the sticks trying to make a buck . 

Ate' lena tawa makiye
can makohaza majin hiyeye cin
le anpetu waste'
aneptu mitawa kon letu nenwe
ateuapi kin
maka owancaya 
lowan nisipe-lo
heya-po heya-po
oyakapo-he oyakapo-he


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, Nab .. I hope you will reconsider leaving us. We all value your posts, photos, and the wonderful work that you do for the birds in your area. This little "spat" is just that .. a little spat that amounts to not much in the big scheme of things. I do know that it is easy to get your feelings hurt or to become angry about things that are posted .. do know that nobody set out to either hurt you or make you angry .. just possibly to make things more politically correct. It is quite obvious that you have very strong feelings about what is done to birds in your area under the legal "loophole" that allows it. Your feelings are very similar to mine about the "sportsmen" who have destroyed a huge regional park here with their lethal fishing debris and slovenly and irresponsible habits and behavior. My anger gauge goes into overload each and every time I get called there and see just what horrific things happen to the birds and animals because the humans are careless, totally lacking in responsible behavior, and generally just uncaring idiots .. tell any of that to any of them, and they will go ballistic. I don't have any real answers for you or for me, but I do know that neither of us can quit caring or sharing.

Hope to see you back here soon, Nab.

Terry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I, too, hope that you will reconsider, Nab!!

I SO enjoy your postings! We learn so much from the different animals and birds you post about. Most of us would never be able to know or learn anything about them otherwise. We could only look at pictures. You bring them into our lives, up close and personal!!

With Love and Hugs

Shi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nab,

I appreciate your lengthy explanation and I agree with you 100 percent. These beautiful creatures of God were not made for man to torture and left to suffer an agonzing death,they were created to co-exist with us and for us to enjoy-and I do enjoy watching them tremendously. I enjoy your posts and always look forward to you sharing these magnificant birds.
Unfortunately there is so much suffering in this world, and it will continue.

I believe that all of us are God's creatures, and even those who do horrible things to other humans and animals. We must pray for them, and ask God to intervene, as well as to take care of His needy creatures, (which you do so well). We may not receive the answers to those prayers, the way we want or in our time, but they are answered.

Thank you for care and concern over all God's creatures, and please reconsider, this forum is built on a foundation of wonderful members like you.

God bless you.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, Nab, we'd miss you!

Linda


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Nab, 

I don't think that the forum is demanding that you treat anyone who does that with respect. If a specific group of people have some illogical legal dispensation to do what amounts to giving these birds a death sentence, and do so, then shame on them and shame on the lawmakers!

I really don't know whether the particular slang term you used is generally considered offensive or not, since it doesn't arise here in the UK. If it is, then as far as Pigeon Talk is concerned, aside from anything else, we have to be a little careful about what is posted and how we express things, because _anyone_ can browse our posts - and we do get people sign up sometimes for dubious reasons. We just don't know if someone out there may pick up on something in a post and make a big thing of it with, say, the site owners or maybe further afield. 

John


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*Thanks John & all*

John,

I understand your concern completely. I started in communications networks and data networks for a living in 1968. I brought online one of the first public dial up BBSs in California in 1979 using surplus Bell 113 modems. At one time or another I’ve done it all, been the system owner, the sysop, the admin you name it I’ve done it when it comes to datacom and public forums, from big commercial system to small systems in the spare room. Your concern is one of the reasons why I’m leaving. For my flippant use of a single word in a post to become the immediate focus of the post and the cause of an immediate compliant to be filed with the admins, followed by an immediate demand to edit and remove the word is just a lot more trouble than I ever intended to cause for any of the good people here that try to maintain this wonderful place. I will set about removing all my threads as soon as my time allows, but I get up at 3:00 am, tend my birds until about 6 then I go to work from 7 until usually 5-5:30 then I come home and spend another 2-3 hours tending my inhouse birds so I don’t have a lot of time to post stuff and maintain my posts but I will get them removed I promise. I know some of my previous posts over the years have contained the same word and possibly other words that may fall into the same category. 


NAB

Bye all may your wings be strong and your mackerel fresh


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Nab.....you ignored my PM's..........so I'll post here. I DID NOT MAKE A COMPLAINT to ANY of the mods and/or administrators........I simply made my one post on what I thought AND said at the end, if any mod/admin thought it inappropriate they could remove it or let me know and I would remove it....which I eventually did anyway. If you were contacted by anyone from Admin..........that was done because THEY must have thought they needed to do so. NOT because I ASK them to........
IMO, which I'm sure doesn't mean a thing to you.........this is being blown WAY out of proportion.
You said what you said. I said what I said. THEN I removed my post and only the few who read it even know what I said and the few that read your post before you changed the wording are the only ones who know what YOU said.
I tried to apologize to you and that's all I can do.
I too have enjoyed your post and/or pictures. I surely don't want you to leave, but I'm done with THIS thread.
If you stay.........that's wonderful. If you don't........I'm sorry and that's all I can say or do.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Nab,

I really, really wish you would stay as an active member here, and there is no need for you to go and "maintain" your posts .. either editing them or deleting them.

Terry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

No-one made any report to the admin/mod team, that I'm aware of, and the only discussion is right here on the thread.

Nab - I certainly don't recall any past posts from you which contained anything 'doubtful', and there's nothing now in this thread which anyone could take offense at - *if* what (to me) appears just an abbreviated form of a common word was a problem anyway.

John


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

*Nab, please rethink your decision*

For you to pull every post and leave would hurt everyone, me included. I think of everyone here who posts regurlarly as one of my family members. To lose you would be like losing a much loved uncle. So many people have asked you to stay, so many people love and respect you as much as I do. I am begging you to rethink your decision. Please don't leave. Please.
Daryl
P.S. If you won't change your mind, I hope you are gifted with so many new birds to take care of, you don't have time to do all you plan to do to leave us.
Hope lots of birds who need rescue are heading your way right now


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

begging does not seem to be working......thats a shame as the birds he/she helps really need the publicity......too bad he/she let a correction get under his/her skin so badly


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

John_D said:


> *No-one made any report to the admin/mod team, that I'm aware of*, and the only discussion is right here on the thread.
> 
> John


My only involvement in this thread is to state, just for the record:
I received no complaint.

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Nab, it is hard to say good bye to you and, like the others, wish you would reconsider. You know, you and Nancy care for species of birds that none of us do. Without you sharing your knowledge, photos and comments about them, the forum really loses out. To me, your bringing these birds to our attention helps all of us realize that birds of prey and others are part of the "system" and are to be respected and admired.

Not only will I miss the birds of prey, but I will miss the Canadas and the Chukkers and the bunnies and, of course, all of the precious little "Georges" and more recently your little doves. How am I to find out if the Canadas built their nest in the flower bed? The pictures of you leading them to the water is still one of my favorite things on the forum. For members who haven't read this story: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20099

I hope you don't bother your prior threads and posts. In the future, someone may be "cruising" the forum and reading back threads and come across yours. I go back from time to time and read and look too and I will miss that. You may not post a lot but when you do, they are quality posts. Me - I am a "talker" and probably post too much fluff... and that's just me... but maybe I need to take a look at that. 

So, dear friend, I will miss you. I hate this happened. Renee is also a dear friend and contributes so much good to the forum and I hate that she is also hurt by this. 

You be good and remember that a little old lady in North Carolina thinks the world of you.


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