# Natural Treatments



## rgdubois

Does anyone have any natural treatments for racing pigeons. I have had racing pigeons for about 10 years now as pets, but this season I thought I would give racing a go, and for the first time, the club members suggested I treated my birds for Kancer etc, and for the first time I am getting sick birds. I feel that we pump them to full of medication, and would like to go fully natural if possible!

Suggestions?


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## Msfreebird

rgdubois said:


> Does anyone have any natural treatments for racing pigeons. I have had racing pigeons for about 10 years now as pets, but this season I thought I would give racing a go, and for the first time, the club members suggested I treated my birds for Kancer etc, and for the first time I am getting sick birds. I feel that we pump them to full of medication, and would like to go fully natural if possible!
> 
> Suggestions?


Hi rgdubois,
If you are going to race and expose your birds to others, then you will need to treat for different illness's and it would probably be a good idea to vaccinate them. I don't race or expose my birds, so I don't vaccinate (plus I have roughly 100), so I can't help you with that.
There are natural things you can give them in between, like ACV and pro-biotics, but if they have Canker, you will need to treat that with metronidazole (flagyl). Unfortunately, there is no natural remedy's for some illness's.
And welcome to PT 
Also, you might want to move this thread to 'General discussions' or 'Sick and Injured pigeons' (its under 'Loft Designs'), you would get more responses.


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## rgdubois

Thanks, will vaccinate them, but more concerned about the general treatments


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## Msfreebird

Most common meds would be..
Metronidazole for canker
Baytril - antibiotic for bacterial infections (salmonella, e-coli)
Clavamox - for injuries
Tetracycline - Upper respiratory infections
Ivermec or Pyrantil (stongid) for wormings
I only medicate for specific illness's, and worm my birds 3 times a year.
Oh, and Albon (or Sulmet) for coccidia


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## Rosequartz

Hi. Came across this thread and wanted to know if there are natural remedies other than metro for canker in pigeons? Because the metro seems to have Side effects so... It would be helpful know if there is one.


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## John_D

There are natural remedies to help prevent or minimise canker (and bacteria) such as Apple Cider Vinegar and garlic, but whether or not natural methods can clear up an active canker case is a matter of opinion. Personally, I prefer to use tried and tested medication to experimenting with stuff which is not scientifically proven.

Take a look at this resources thread

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f105/prevention-nutrition-regime-for-pigeons-56530.html


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## Skyeking

*Canker is one that you need the appropriate meds for, because when it becomes ACTIVE it invades and can kill. That s one I don't mess around with.

For prevention it is best to innoculate your birds, and use natural products to keep their immune system in check-like the one's John mentioned. ACV will keep gut PH where it needs to be, to keep bad bacteria from overcrowding. Garlic is a wonderful natural antibiotic when used correctly.

I feel that using meds for prevention just compromises the immune system.

Prevention and Nutrition: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/prevention-amp-nutrition-for-racing-homing-pigeons-10859.html

Natural Healing: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f107/natural-healing-10568.html?highlight=homeopathic+remedies


I have moved your thread from "loft design" to "general discussions". Thank you*


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## Jay3

Rosequartz said:


> Hi. Came across this thread and wanted to know if there are natural remedies other than metro for canker in pigeons? Because the metro seems to have Side effects so... It would be helpful know if there is one.


Haven't heard of anyone having problems with Metro. It works and haven't seen any side effects. You said you couldn't get Metro there anyway.
There are natural remedies to help to avoid getting illness, but once a bird is actually ill with a disease, you need the appropriate med.


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## Alamo

If you want to keep pigeons healthy, as much as possible without using meds,you need to give ACV=Apple Cider Vinegar ....Garlic....Lemon...Onion...Pro Bio`s....Vitamins/Minerals..
You can give ACV & Lemon in their water every day if you wish...You could give garlic & onion in their water once/twice a week...Pro Bio`s once/twice per week...ONLY if you are certain that the birds are sick,do you give med`s....I race my birds,and NO med`s are given UNLESS,I don`t like what I see from their droppings,or how the birds are acting....I do not inoculate my birds for anything...Never did,never will....I believe if they can`t stay healthy with what I do for them,I do not need them in my loft....Alamo


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## Skogsdua

In Norway I'v heard about giving the Allium schoenoprasum or chives for natural worming, I wonder if this is common elsewhere? I must say I have not tried yet. How do you use lemon and onion?


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## Jay3

Onion actually isn't good for pigeons, and can be toxic to birds.


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## Jr Brown

Alamo said:


> If you want to keep pigeons healthy, as much as possible without using meds,you need to give ACV=Apple Cider Vinegar ....Garlic....Lemon...Onion...Pro Bio`s....Vitamins/Minerals..
> You can give ACV & Lemon in their water every day if you wish...You could give garlic & onion in their water once/twice a week...Pro Bio`s once/twice per week...ONLY if you are certain that the birds are sick,do you give med`s....I race my birds,and NO med`s are given UNLESS,I don`t like what I see from their droppings,or how the birds are acting....I do not inoculate my birds for anything...Never did,never will....I believe if they can`t stay healthy with what I do for them,I do not need them in my loft....Alamo


We had a few guys in our club who were of the same attitude about vaccinating. When PMV swept through their lofts they tried everything from natural to heavy duty meds. Nothing stops PMV. Of the small percentage of birds that survived, some were carriers of the virus and occasional shed it and infected new birds later. All the care in the world won't save birds from PMV! Vaccination does! It is just the worst plague for a loft. It will end your season and possibly your hobby entirely.


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## JennyM

Alamo said:


> If you want to keep pigeons healthy, as much as possible without using meds,you need to give ACV=Apple Cider Vinegar ....Garlic....Lemon...Onion...Pro Bio`s....Vitamins/Minerals..
> You can give ACV & Lemon in their water every day if you wish...You could give garlic & onion in their water once/twice a week...Pro Bio`s once/twice per week...ONLY if you are certain that the birds are sick,do you give med`s....I race my birds,and NO med`s are given UNLESS,I don`t like what I see from their droppings,or how the birds are acting....I do not inoculate my birds for anything...Never did,never will....*I believe if they can`t stay healthy with what I do for them,I do not need them in my loft*....Alamo


ew, what an ugly attitude towards them, can't even imagine what you do to the ones that cannot "stay" healthy...


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## Alamo

*JAY 3....*
Onion will not harm your birds or kill them....Art Hees,one of the top 25 all time best pigeon racers gave his birds a little onion in their water once in a while...He had a TONIC that he gave his birds when he thought they needed it,and onion was in the tonic...You had a very hard time beating this man,and if you did,you were lucky.....
*JR BROWN*....I had ONE young RCH die from PMV....I have been racing my birds since 1984.....I will not vaccinate for anything period....That doesn`t mean that you have to do what I do....I would suggest any new pigeon racers to vaccinate...I`m not a new guy...My dad was a pigeon man for 50 years....I`m going on my 33rd yr myself...
*JENNY M....*I clean/scrape/vacuum my loft 2 to 3 times per day....I have been sick for the last 4 days,taking 3 different med`s to get healthy...I still drove the 1 mile to my lofts and cleaned up like I was 35 yrs old,and not 74 yrs old....If these birds can`t stay healthy,I don`t want them...*That doesn`t mean I kill them*...Alamo


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## Jay3

If you are sick you take meds to get better.
Why is it that if your birds get sick, then you don't need them in your loft? Sometimes strong and healthy birds do get sick with something, just like us. But your birds are not allowed that?


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## Jr Brown

rgdubois said:


> Does anyone have any natural treatments for racing pigeons. I have had racing pigeons for about 10 years now as pets, but this season I thought I would give racing a go, and for the first time, the club members suggested I treated my birds for Kancer etc, and for the first time I am getting sick birds. I feel that we pump them to full of medication, and would like to go fully natural if possible!
> 
> Suggestions?


There most definitely is a natural product to treat canker. I have personally used this product for the last two years with good results.
Search for "TriColi Stop" Several pigeon supply companies carry it.


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## Jay3

Have you used it on pigeons that you have had proof that they actually did have canker? Like after swab tests, or seeing the canker nodules in the throat?


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## Alamo

JAY3......My birds very rarely come down with something...I have med`s in my fridge....
Many times,they get thrown away because they expired...I have never even given worn med`s to my birds....Young or old !!! Stock birds get NOTHING...NEVER....If they are not sick,they get clean food and water....When PMV was running ramped back in the early 80`s,I lost one young RCH.....That`s it....My buddies down here lost 50 or more each back then....They didn`t listen to me,and they lost their birds...I didn`t !!!! 
I got rid of a 3 time combine winner that was given to me...He would not stay healthy no matter what I did for him....My birds were fine....
I breed birds for health/vitality/homing ability etc....I have had many birds live well beyond their normal life span...I am very proud to say so....
As for pre medicating YB`s before training/racing...That`s bull !!! I do not take asprin because I MIGHT get a head ache sometime today ...or something for a tummy ache that I might get today....or...or...or.... whatever I might get today....I take something WHEN I GET IT.....Just like now...3 different med`s for a slight case of pneumonia...
Not a good time either,as YB season is starting this week....Alamo


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## Skyeking

Jr Brown said:


> There most definitely is a natural product to treat canker. I have personally used this product for the last two years with good results.
> Search for "TriColi Stop" Several pigeon supply companies carry it.


*Thank you for sharing that, I checked the product online and some major pigeon supply houses carry it, and it is supposed to be natural and works within 3 hours: http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/canker-products/2562-tricoli-stop 

Can you tell us what the ingredients are? *


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## rpalmer

Alamo said:


> JAY3......My birds very rarely come down with something...I have med`s in my fridge....
> Many times,they get thrown away because they expired...I have never even given worn med`s to my birds....Young or old !!! Stock birds get NOTHING...NEVER....If they are not sick,they get clean food and water....When PMV was running ramped back in the early 80`s,I lost one young RCH.....That`s it....My buddies down here lost 50 or more each back then....They didn`t listen to me,and they lost their birds...I didn`t !!!!
> I got rid of a 3 time combine winner that was given to me...He would not stay healthy no matter what I did for him....My birds were fine....
> I breed birds for health/vitality/homing ability etc....I have had many birds live well beyond their normal life span...I am very proud to say so....
> As for pre medicating YB`s before training/racing...That`s bull !!! I do not take asprin because I MIGHT get a head ache sometime today ...or something for a tummy ache that I might get today....or...or...or.... whatever I might get today....I take something WHEN I GET IT.....Just like now...3 different med`s for a slight case of pneumonia...
> Not a good time either,as YB season is starting this week....Alamo


I have to agree with you. I also have a couple of meds on stand by that will most likely be thrown out without ever being used, as the last ones were. Health and vigor are at least as important as flying ability. The latter never being fully achieved without the former.

I can't say which famous racer said it, but he said " the more you medicate the more you have to medicate". For whatever reason people think medications are required just like they believe they need young-ish breeders. You or I will not change their minds. They will keep losing birds for some unknown reason and people like us will always have sage advice ignored. Best of luck and health you you and yours.


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## Jay3

Medicating without a reason is foolish. But sometimes they need medication, just like we do. Giving them one thing after another is just harming them and making them weaker and more susceptible to disease, but some things do require medication. There is a middle ground here.

Don't throw away those meds when they expire. If kept properly they are good for years past expiration date.


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## Jr Brown

Alamo said:


> JAY3......My birds very rarely come down with something...I have med`s in my fridge....
> Many times,they get thrown away because they expired...I have never even given worn med`s to my birds....Young or old !!! Stock birds get NOTHING...NEVER....If they are not sick,they get clean food and water....When PMV was running ramped back in the early 80`s,I lost one young RCH.....That`s it....My buddies down here lost 50 or more each back then....They didn`t listen to me,and they lost their birds...I didn`t !!!!
> I got rid of a 3 time combine winner that was given to me...He would not stay healthy no matter what I did for him....My birds were fine....
> I breed birds for health/vitality/homing ability etc....I have had many birds live well beyond their normal life span...I am very proud to say so....
> As for pre medicating YB`s before training/racing...That`s bull !!! I do not take asprin because I MIGHT get a head ache sometime today ...or something for a tummy ache that I might get today....or...or...or.... whatever I might get today....I take something WHEN I GET IT.....Just like now...3 different med`s for a slight case of pneumonia...
> Not a good time either,as YB season is starting this week....Alamo


There is a vaccination for pneumonia in humans. Maybe you should get it after you fully recover from your current bout with pneumonia.


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## Jr Brown

Skyeking said:


> *Thank you for sharing that, I checked the product online and some major pigeon supply houses carry it, and it is supposed to be natural and works within 3 hours: http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/canker-products/2562-tricoli-stop
> 
> Can you tell us what the ingredients are? *


The bottle says "Contains only pure natural organic substances, minerals, and vitamins."
It contains Formic acid, B-vitamins, a drying agent, Iron sulfate, ferrous fumarate, a preservative, and calcium citrate.

Visible canker was a problem in my loft for some time. I treated the flock a few times with two types of medications. Then I started using the TriColi Stop whenever a bird had some sort of stress such as being lost, an encounter with a hawk, minor injuries, breeding, or any new birds I bring in.
I have not seen any visible canker in any bird since I started using it.


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## Jay3

It may work as a preventative, but I find it hard to believe that it would work on a bird with obvious active canker. Don't know. Just don't believe it.


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## FredaH

I'm a great believer in keeping chemical treatments away from animals but have only just started keeping pigeons. I've had dogs for forty plus years, I don't worm I worm count, I vaccinate only twice for puppy jabs then one yearly booster, no more for life and I flea treat the house, not the dog. I use garlic and diatomaceous earth for treatments/preventatives and turmeric in their food daily and they all have and still are living to ripe old ages. Too many cancers in dogs these days believed to possibly be caused by over treatments of parasites that are natural and can be expelled naturally too. 
I'm very interested in natural treatments for pigeons and keeping up a good immune system to aid the combat of disease, so I use natural supplements plus vitamins in the hope that this will suffice. Of course if AB's or vaccination are needed they will have them but they won't be over used. 

Love this thread.


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## FredaH

Wow it has lots of positive reviews so I've just ordered some from here - £25 and worth it. 
Thanks for the heads up Jr Brown.


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## Jay3

FredaH said:


> I'm a great believer in keeping chemical treatments away from animals but have only just started keeping pigeons. I've had dogs for forty plus years, I don't worm I worm count, I vaccinate only twice for puppy jabs then one yearly booster, no more for life and I flea treat the house, not the dog. I use garlic and diatomaceous earth for treatments/preventatives and turmeric in their food daily and they all have and still are living to ripe old ages. Too many cancers in dogs these days believed to possibly be caused by over treatments of parasites that are natural and can be expelled naturally too.
> I'm very interested in natural treatments for pigeons and keeping up a good immune system to aid the combat of disease, so I use natural supplements plus vitamins in the hope that this will suffice. Of course if AB's or vaccination are needed they will have them but they won't be over used.
> 
> Love this thread.


I hope you do treat for heart worm. People who don't have regretted it.


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## Skyeking

*I am a big advocate in holistic/natural care/prevention (GMO FREE, range fed meat, chemical and pesticide free-if not organic) for my dogs,birds and myself and my family.

My dogs are not getting any medicine or chemical products. My girl and boy get raw and grain free food. They are on a holisitic heart worm regimen which was originally found by a dog rehabber who's latest rescue had stage 4 heart worm. The dog was healed of all the worms and lived another 6 years, even though the heart was damaged to an extent. She basically adjusted the formula for prevention and many are using it successfully. I believe the chemicals used in the heart worm protocal does shorten dogs lives, as well as causes side effects. 

*


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## Jay3

Skyking, I have never heard of the holistic heart worm regimen you mentioned. Didn't even know there was one.


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## Skyeking

Jay3 said:


> Skyking, I have never heard of the holistic heart worm regimen you mentioned. Didn't even know there was one.


*There are several out there, and I picked one in particular due to the particular herbs used, the written results, and reviews (human and dog) and price. I stopped supporting a big pharmacutical company, the maker of Trifexis. They said "they are feeding the world", because they are a major supplier of drugs for the world's cattle and other animals used for food. They are also jeopardizing people's health. *


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## Jay3

Skyeking said:


> *There are several out there, and I picked one in particular due to the particular herbs used, the written results, and reviews (human and dog) and price. I stopped supporting a big pharmacutical company, the maker of Trifexis. They said "they are feeding the world", because they are a major supplier of the world's cattle and other animals used for food. They are also jeopardizing people's health. *


Thanks for the info.


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## Jr Brown

Jay3 said:


> It may work as a preventative, but I find it hard to believe that it would work on a bird with obvious active canker. Don't know. Just don't believe it.


If you want to try it without having to buy a whole bottle send me a PM and I will mail a couple of capsules for you to try.
I am interested in knowing how well it would work on an active visible canker case as well. As I stated above, I use it really as a preventative now that canker seems to be under control in my loft but, to have a bird that has the visible canker in it's mouth and throat and see if it clears it up and how fast, that would be very interesting to test.
There are 100 capsules in a bottle, I would be willing to share a few and then want to know the results.


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## Jay3

That would be interesting wouldn't it? But you would hopefully have to wait a good time for the results. When I was taking in more rescues, I ran into it often. Now I don't often take in rescues, as I don't want to crowd. But on occasion, it does come up. Just not often.


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## FredaH

Jay3 said:


> I hope you do treat for heart worm. People who don't have regretted it.


I'll wait until they're six months and worm count them, it covers heart worm too. Are these worms transmissible through the egg from the mother because they have only been in a house atm?


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## FredaH

Skyeking said:


> *My dogs are not getting any medicine or chemical products. My girl and boy get raw and grain free food. They are on a holisitic heart worm regimen which was originally found by a dog rehabber who's latest rescue had stage 4 heart worm. The dog was healed of all the worms and lived another 6 years, even though the heart was damaged to an extent. She basically adjusted the formula for prevention and many are using it successfully. I believe the chemicals used in the heart worm protocal does shorten dogs lives, as well as causes side effects.
> 
> *


Saddens me how people are willing to smother their dogs in Advocate parasite control as much as monthly and yet have no idea if parasites are even present. Vets are wonderful people and I have turned to them for help but my vet knows I don't like nsaid's, steroids or any chemical treatments. Vets are in business and of course they need their business to flourish but sadly research is finding that this is often at the expense of our animals health. My dogs are raw fed too - and healthy.


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## Skyeking

FredaH said:


> Saddens me how people are willing to smother their dogs in Advocate parasite control as much as monthly and yet have no idea if parasites are even present. Vets are wonderful people and I have turned to them for help but my vet knows I don't like nsaid's, steroids or any chemical treatments. Vets are in business and of course they need their business to flourish but sadly research is finding that this is often at the expense of our animals health. My dogs are raw fed too - and healthy.


*Freda, you have had your dogs a lot longer then I have, so you probably know much more then I do. I have only had my dogs for about 6 years, but I did a lot of research on-line, the evidence is overwhelming. Vets are about the same here, but I was able to find a vet who has no problem with me using the products I use, she does not promote them, but she has seen results, so she doesn't dispute them. *


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## Jay3

FredaH said:


> Saddens me how people are willing to smother their dogs in Advocate parasite control as much as monthly and yet have no idea if parasites are even present. Vets are wonderful people and I have turned to them for help but my vet knows I don't like nsaid's, steroids or any chemical treatments. Vets are in business and of course they need their business to flourish but sadly research is finding that this is often at the expense of our animals health. My dogs are raw fed too - and healthy.



If they do get heart worm, it will cause damage to their heart and lungs, It takes time and money to treat, and they will have the damage forever. 
Saddens me that too many don't bother to do anything until the dog has contracted something so damaging. The chances of a dog getting heart worm without some kind of parasite control is pretty good. I think it is better to give prevention then to try to eradicate the worms once found.


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## Alamo

Hi All....I am feeling allot better after 7 days of med`s....Took my birds 95 miles,because they were a little heavy in weight....They made it in 2 hrs 3 minutes....Not to bad for fat pigeons....Put garlic & lemon in todays water for them....They get something everyday in the water....I call it natural medication...As long as they look good,and act well in the loft,I`m a happy camper....Alamo
PS:You are right....I need to get a penicillin shot for my illness....thanks guys..Alamo


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## Kal-El

Alamo said:


> If you want to keep pigeons healthy, as much as possible without using meds,you need to give ACV=Apple Cider Vinegar ....Garlic....Lemon...Onion...Pro Bio`s....Vitamins/Minerals..
> You can give ACV & Lemon in their water every day if you wish...You could give garlic & onion in their water once/twice a week...Pro Bio`s once/twice per week...ONLY if you are certain that the birds are sick,do you give med`s....I race my birds,and NO med`s are given UNLESS,I don`t like what I see from their droppings,or how the birds are acting....I do not inoculate my birds for anything...Never did,never will....I believe if they can`t stay healthy with what I do for them,I do not need them in my loft....Alamo


In contrast to the polar opposite retorts from members of this forum, I agree with you. If a bird cannot stay healthy for whatever reason, it's time for said bird to go. Nature doesn't allow weak birds to live, why should you? Enact that artificial selection.


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