# splayed twisted leg



## altgirl35

today the dog officer from a neighboring town brought me a piji about 3 weeks old or so.
i'm not convinced he is a feral could be a homer, much bigger than a feral of the same age, and very adorable
his little leg was sticking straight out to his side, i took him to the vet and he wasn't convinced that his hip was in socket but wasn't positive.
i'm busted financially from the baby season i had this year so i couldn't afford an x ray at this time.
we hobbled him with a sponge (toe seperaters) but his leg and foot still twisted to the right outward.
so i made a short soft perch and taped his feet to it in the proper direction, plus keeping him hobbled.
i wish i would have taken a pic before hand but i didn't think of it at the time. 
i set him up in a donut but he doesn't want to stay in, and he will just fall on his face if i give him freedom to move about.
not sure if i am doing the right thing for him, and if this is going to be a painful problem for him the rest of his life or not.
i see lots of piji's that do just fine with one leg and my thinking is if i can at least get it in a better position he may be able to survive just fine if he's a feral, and i would try to find a home for him if he is a homer 
i will try to get a pic of him in the t'mrrw any advice would be appreciated.


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## altgirl35

oh i should add that the leg is strong, he can bend it and his foot works fine


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## TAWhatley

Pics would be very helpful! Hard to say much without really seeing what's going on. I know you will do you very best for the little one!

Terry


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## plamenh

*Pigeon orthopedic leg frame*

Why don’t you try to design something like this from large paper clip or similar wire? Side 1 goes to the twisted leg and bottom part is for fixing foot. Side 2 can either be fixed to other leg, or to the sponge. Add soft padding to avoid leg skin bruising and irritation.


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## Feefo

I just fixed my woodie's leg, both legs were sticking ourt sidewards and they slipped further out when he tried to walk. I had made several failed attempts to tape it and also tried other thinks like the bendy straw and the sponge. Nothing worked.

Then I tried the tape again and suddenly it went well, the tape was in the right place and after a while he was able to walk on his feet (although they are twisted and need correcting). Today I saw him do a wing stretch for the first time.

he is in a small aviary with other disabled woodies and when he sees me approach he hurries away to hide, moving very smoothly and quickly!

Cynthia


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## altgirl35

i'm not understanding how your diagram works plamenh.
sorry i wasn't on yesterday, my parents are in town and in between feedings i was visiting, still havn't found my camera.
i think what i have done will work i will remove everything on the 20th and see what happens, hopefully i won't have to tape him up again.
what i'm having the hard time with is keeping him in a comfortable position and getting him to stay put once i get him in the right spot! lol.
such a long time for the little guy to have to stay in one place just when he's getting to the age where they walk around and test those little wings.


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## plamenh

Ok I'll try better sketch, just don't blame me if it comes more Picasso like than Michelangelo


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## plamenh

*Here we go*

Green line is how frame should fit legs and feet. Red circles are points of fixation toes and legs. 
Blue is same hobble just bit more curvaceous. Padding is compulsory of course.


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## altgirl35

ahhhh, i get it so you just tape the toes flat in position, i like it.
now i'm not sure if i should start over, i think i will give him a few days at least i don't want to undo any of the correction that has hopefully taken place.
i have pretty much accomplished getting the leg turned in the proper direction, just instead i took a piece of the big vine people use for thier reptiles it's soft and spongy about a 1/2 to 3/4" in diameter and taped his both feet in a perching position, instead of flat like your idea would do.
plus i used 2 toe seperaters to hobble his legs in between his ankle and knee, yours is simpler and one contraption.


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## plamenh

As many heads, as many ideas. This is a benefit of having this forum. One can allways pick some good idea or combine couple of them


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## altgirl35

i think like yours better, it will stretch everything out better.
now does the wire go on top of the foot or underneath? underneath right?


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## plamenh

Underneath yes!


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## pigeonpoo

plamenh said:


> Green line is how frame should fit legs and feet. Red circles are points of fixation toes and legs.
> Blue is same hobble just bit more curvaceous. Padding is compulsory of course.


Maybe you could use pipe-cleaners - wire and padding all in one!


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## psychopomp

hi, have to put in my 2 cents...I have been struggling with this too ....pipe cleaners are not strong enough for my case. when I got my pidge, his entire leg was straight out backwards. I have tried foam, and then medical tape...still iffy.

this wire method, how do you attach?? and stop pidge from getting out of it or tangled? what kind of wire?


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## altgirl35

i was just reading your post, as for me i think i am going to try a wire hanger then wrap it with vet wrap. i will tape him to it with paper tape because it's easy to remove by getting it wet and doesn't seem to irritate their skin or pull out feathers, then i will wrap the rest up with waterproof first aid tape.
i'll let you know how i do


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## psychopomp

altgirl35 said:


> i was just reading your post, as for me i think i am going to try a wire hanger then wrap it with vet wrap. i will tape him to it with paper tape because it's easy to remove by getting it wet and doesn't seem to irritate their skin or pull out feathers, then i will wrap the rest up with waterproof first aid tape.
> i'll let you know how i do


please post pics if it goes ok!! I am so struggling with my little Tim....hes been so sweet and patient with the contraptions I keep trying on him . good luck!!


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## altgirl35

okay, been working on this little dude for the last hour, and i did take pics!!
it took a couple of tries but i think i got it, the part where i taped down his toes is a little big but it's working for now.
i set him up in the plastic tub with rolled towels, he is pretty much standing, i also decided to put a sock on him. i just found an old one and cut it to size and put it over his body to hold his wings down so he won't move around to much in there, i didn't get a pic of him set up now.
i took some before pics of what i did and some with the new wire method
everyone let me know if he may be a homer, he's much bigger than a feral of the same age


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## altgirl35

oh and his leg did improve alot in just a few days with my old contraption


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## altgirl35

trying to get these pics on again


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## altgirl35

more more more


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## altgirl35

a bunch more


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## altgirl35

okay this is all of them


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## altgirl35

here today's pics and i took a couple with the other feral who is very close in age actually a bit older so you can see the difference in size and beak


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## altgirl35

one more for ya


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## plamenh

This is so great done! His leg obviously improves.


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## lindylou

Good luck, Altgirl35 and thanks out there to all the excellent suggestions. One never knows when we will have to handle a similar situation. Please do keep us all informed.LOL Lindylou P.S.: I just looked at the pictures and what a ingenius contraction, a great combined effort, your sock, tape, and plamenh's designed leg splint. This bird (very young, from the beak colour) has a good chance at recovery. He is one lucky hombre to have come to you!~


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## altgirl35

do you think he is a homer???


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## clucklebeed

He definetly looks like one... may be a roller?
The other breeds have distinct differences between them, like smaller beaks, fantails tail feathers spread out like a fan, ect.


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## Pigeon lower

Goodjob! Soon that piggie will be all over the place walking around.


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## altgirl35

so he's not a feral, mmm i wonder how he ended being found away from a loft.
will he be okay being free, or should i try to home him?


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## clucklebeed

Does he have a band? Thats the best way to know if he's feral.
Ferals arn't a different breed (unless you consider them rock pigeons, slightly different than normal pigeons)


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## altgirl35

no no band, he looks different than a rock dove to me, i rehab them on a regular basis, and have 3 babes currently. he's much larger, big eyes, big fleshy beak he's really really cute. i tried to get a good pick of him and another baby i have that is actually a little older than him, if you look at the pic's of the 2 pigeons you can see the difference in the beaks he has big fleshy nares


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## altgirl35

the few homers i have had brought to me have than more sloped head and beak, i can't explain it.
i have never seen a baby homer that i can remember


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## psychopomp

what did you use for the wire?? my guy has exactly the same splay...a little older though. hes unfortunately got an infected swollen leg from my attempts  and I am going to try to hunt up some antibiotics.....


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## altgirl35

i just used a wire hanger, it get's pretty sturdy with the vet wrap added for padding.
it's always tough to treat legs and feet, infection, irritation and swelling happen, it's very hard to keep them clean, it's very hard to get it just right, and can take several tries to get it just right, not to tight, not to lose it can be maddening, all the while you feel like your just torturing the poor things.
keep at it, you'll get it


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## psychopomp

I'll give it a go tomorrow if his sores aren't too bad....yes it does feel like torture.....and I hope he pulls through the infection.

well if it doesnt work, i guess I'll have a new companion.... whats another pidge

thanks so much!!


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## altgirl35

didn't work , his hip may be no good


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## plamenh

Do you think that 5 days was enough for correction?

This is what i found:


> Generally, the sooner any deviation is observed and correction is begun, the less severe and prolonged the therapy required. If neglected, maturation and size development will require more vigorous orthopedic-restraint and longer correction periods.
> 
> Check the "splint" in a week...remove and see if legs are better. I usually at this time. if not quite right yet, re-do the split just a fraction closer in together for another week. By then it is usually fixed.


I believe that more time is required!


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## altgirl35

it's actually been 10 days, he was first hobble the wednesday before last


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## plamenh

You can estimate better as you can see the bird. I just checked if there is any indication how long should this procedure last. With humans it usually takes months.
Otherwise is he OK; eating, pooping?


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## altgirl35

he is, and he's such a sweet little guy.
i set him up in a screen cage, gonna wait and see how he does, he's not standing at all yet, but i just took it off this morning.
it's going to take him a while to get the use back of his good leg.
poor baby


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## plamenh

That is great as being taped is not pleasant process and brings a lot of stress.
It is amazing how easy adaptable and stabile are pigeons psychically.
I found another case:
… however, please make sure that everyone understands that this was a very complicated process that took over a month.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/correction-of-extremely-splayed-legs-15149.html


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## altgirl35

lol, how cute were they all in their little beds, lol


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## plamenh

The best chicken pack I've seen for a while!


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## altgirl35

well this baby still can't stand with his good leg, he obviously can never be released and i'm questioning his quality of life in captivity being unable to stand, his bottom gets covered in feces which i'm sure will eventually lead to sores, i put him in a warm bath every other day to soak everthing off.
anyone had experience with birds that can't stand, he's so sweet and cute it's making me sad, i keep looking at him and telling him "okay one more week, you need to stand up" but he doesn't


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## TAWhatley

Well, I had an adult that I named Bandit for years .. she could not stand and was kept on bubble wrap covered with a smooth cotton cloth tightly tucked in. Bandit also had "bumpers" on her cage sides to help keep her from banging herself up. She lived for years, seemed to be a very happy pigeon, and even laid strange little very oblong/elongated eggs .. I presume from being on her side all the time. 

I have three youngsters right now none of which is likely to ever have even close to normal use of the legs. I, too, am debating but like you keep giving it another week at a time .. These are not easy cases and not easy decisions to make. I don't envy you. In my heart of hearts, I know that I'm not really doing my youngsters any favors, but as long they seem to be happy and are eating, drinking, and glad to be alive .. I guess I will just keep slaving away at keeping them in the best condition that I can.

Wish I had the definitive answer for you, but I don't.

Terry


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## altgirl35

i know i do the "one more week" too much for many birds and it makes it so much harder when i have to say goodbye to them


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## altgirl35

the little guy has now been adopted by jay3! she's gonna start a new thread about him


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## TAWhatley

altgirl35 said:


> the little guy has now been adopted by jay3! she's gonna start a new thread about him


Great! I'll be looking forward to Jay3's posts!

Terry


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## Jay3

Hi everyone, just wanted to update about the little pij. Yes, on Saturday we met Jodi in Woburn, Ma. Somewhere on the other side of Boston. It was a beautiful day for a ride, and we stopped for breakfast while waiting for her to catch up to us. As it always is, it was fun meeting another Pigeon Talk member. Jodi was absolutely nothing like I had pictured her to be. I have absolutely no idea why I thought her to be on the quiet side. She was very outgoing and bubbly. And we had a nice chat. I thought the ride would be much longer. We were looking so forward to meeting our new little challenge. But all and all it turned out great. Thanks Jodi, for the baby, and for meeting us at the restaurant near our exit off the highway, as we usually get lost. That made it a lot easier. It was fun, and nice to meet you. Now the challenge is in our court, and we'll try very hard to see what we can do for him. He's a great little bird. Very friendly, and loves being held. He just loves company. I'll start a thread about him when I figure out where to put it. And she agreed to let me post a picture of her holding the pij as she turned him over to me.


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## Jay3

Actually, I figure I might just as well post it on this thread, as it is the same bird. Okay, we got him home, and settled him in. Jodi wasn't sure just how much he was eating on his own, so was still tubing him once a day. I guess when she stopped the second tube feeding, he lost 20 grams. At first he wasn't doing so well in that department. He would pick up the seed and just drop it, as if he was just learning. I fed him thawed peas and corn, and left seed with him for a couple of days. Jodi was nice enough to give me a bag of what he was eating. So I mixed that with some of my pigeon feed and extra safflower seed, which he loves. He caught on and is eating like a little pig. On Sept 12, Jodi said he was 340 g. Today he is 347 g. Anyway, we have discovered that the way to get him to eat, is keeping him company. He just loves attention. If you hold him, or sit by him, he will gobble it up. Guess he just doesn't like to eat alone. LOL. Wouldn't drink water the first day and a half. Now he does. Just kept dipping his beak in til he got it. His favorite place is on a towel on Dons lap in the living room recliner. They watch sports together and fall asleep together. Too cute! Anyway, I have a vet appointment on Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. We'll see what she thinks of the leg. Probably need an x-ray to see what is going on with that. It may sound weird, but although I know pigeons do live with one leg, if this one can't be fixed, I'm not sure that he would be better off without the leg. The leg is very useful to him. He uses it for balance. He gets close enough to something so that he can grab it, or push against it to help balance himself. He also uses it to push himself along and to turn


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## Charis

Jay3 said:


> Actually, I figure I might just as well post it on this thread, as it is the same bird. Okay, we got him home, and settled him in. Jodi wasn't sure just how much he was eating on his own, so was still tubing him once a day. I guess when she stopped the second tube feeding, he lost 20 grams. At first he wasn't doing so well in that department. He would pick up the seed and just drop it, as if he was just learning. I fed him thawed peas and corn, and left seed with him for a couple of days. Jodi was nice enough to give me a bag of what he was eating. So I mixed that with some of my pigeon feed and extra safflower seed, which he loves. He caught on and is eating like a little pig. On Sept 12, Jodi said he was 340 g. Today he is 347 g. Anyway, we have discovered that the way to get him to eat, is keeping him company. He just loves attention. If you hold him, or sit by him, he will gobble it up. Guess he just doesn't like to eat alone. LOL. Wouldn't drink water the first day and a half. Now he does. Just kept dipping his beak in til he got it. His favorite place is on a towel on Dons lap in the living room recliner. They watch sports together and fall asleep together. Too cute! Anyway, I have a vet appointment on Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. We'll see what she thinks of the leg. Probably need an x-ray to see what is going on with that. It may sound weird, but although I know pigeons do live with one leg, if this one can't be fixed, I'm not sure that he would be better off without the leg. The leg is very useful to him. He uses it for balance. He gets close enough to something so that he can grab it, or push against it to help balance himself. He also uses it to push himself along and to turn


We'd like to see a picture of him in Don's lap.


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## altgirl35

aww, he sounds like he is doing sooo good, i can't wait to hear what the vet sais, and i second that on the pic in don's lap


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## Jay3

Oh darn! I just woke them both up. Don to walk the dogs, and pij to go to bed. LOL. As far as the vet, I'll post when we get back. Now that I've had him flying a little, he wants to do more, and has tried to take off from the seat of my recliner, and drifted to the floor. I don't believe that was his goal. I think it's good that he is trying. Only way he's gonna learn. I don't leave him alone anywhere high, where he may get hurt if he crashes. And when he does fly, I'm right there to catch him.


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## Jay3

I posted his picture with the first comment, but for some reason, it didn't post. Here is his pic.










And a close up when he was outside enjoying the sunshine on Sunday afternoon. He's a pretty little thing.


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## altgirl35

aww, that pic of his face is amazing, he's a special lovely little guy


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## Jay3

Well, we went to the vet. We had the leg x-rayed, and there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the joints, hip or otherwise. Just splayed and twisted. The vet isn't sure whether at this point the hobbling will help, but we are going to try it and see. I have to watch for any circulation problems, and go back in a week to be checked. I have him in a basket which is lined with very thick foam rubber, like what you would put around an air conditioner. There is a hole for the legs to go down through, and it is covered with toweling. At first, he got out by using his head and wings to push his way out. Back to the drawing board. So then I pulled a stretch tubular bandage over him with a cutout for his feet. I could have used a sock, but thought this would be less warm for him. He was such a little trooper all through the whole thing. The vet techs fell in love with him. And the vet couldn't believe how good he was for the x-ray and taping. First pigeon she has ever hobbled. Don had to hold him all the way home, as we couldn't put him back in the carry thingy we brought. He would have just fallen over, as he couldn't stand even before the procedure. Hopefully, the leg will correct enough to be able to stand and walk with. And the other leg will have to gain strength, and straighten out a bit from being on it for so long. I can't believe how good he's being in his little wrap. He even ate some and drank some water. He's really confined, poor thing. If his appetite wanes, I'll hand feed him peas and corn and some seeds, and maybe add a tube feeding. I feel bad doing all this to him. He doesn't understand why we have taped and wrapped him up, and he's being such a sweet bird through it all. I'll try to come up with a way to suspend him also, to change his position a bit. And I'll take the stocking off daily to let him exercise his wings. We'll see how things go. The vet said that if it stressed him out too much, that maybe we would have to unhobble him. If not, then she wants to keep him hobbled for maybe three weeks, and see how it does. Wish us luck.


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## altgirl35

oh poor baby back in his restraints, i so wish i would have got this baby right away when he was found. , i hope it works this time.
i had to wrap his wings 2, he wouldn't stay put in his hospital bed, if you give him a little dish of water and seeds where he can reach it he will eat and drink, he did for me anyways.
i feel bad, i should have kept him hobbled longer than 10days, i hope and pray it works


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## altgirl35

jay did the vet say anything about the way his leg is turned to the right along with the splay?
i miss him really bad, i get a little ache in my heart when i think about him


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## Jay3

Would you believe.........................that as well as he was wrapped up, which was done because he pushed up with his head and wings, and got out of the basket, that during the night, he still got out of the basket! Not only did he get out, but he then got out of the stocking that he was in, and managed to get to the side of the cage, move the bumper, and go up against the cage where the bottom pulls out from, and wedge his wing in between the bars. All this had to be done with that bad leg, which he uses like an arm and hand. He can push with it to balance, which is how he must have gotten out of the basket, And that is the only way he could have gotten out of the stocking. He would have had to hook onto it with the claws on that foot, and pull on it. The stocking was beside him on the floor of the cage. He was miserable, and very upset. That bad leg is soooo strong, as he used it constantly to get around and grab things with, that what he can do with it is just amazing. It was strong enough to pull it back where he likes it, along with the good leg. So that they were both going toward the right side. I was questioning whether it hurt him to bring it in to wrap it. I could have tried to devise something to suspend him from, but the whole thing would have had to be re-wrapped, and that bad leg is still strong enough to pull to the side anyway, and pull the good leg with it. The vet thought it doubful that at this stage it would make a difference, and I have to agree with her that it was probably too late to do it that way. So why put him through that for three weeks when it probably wasn't going to help him. I took the tape off. I think that if it could be corrected, it would have to be by surgery. Don't know if we can go there. But I'll call the vet and talk about it anyway. For now, he is as he was, but surprisingly enough, he seems very content that way. He can't walk, but he does get around in his own weird little way, and I have been holding him up so that he can take off, and he is learning to fly. Actually, he's doing well in that department, and learning to land on that good leg. Maybe he will strengthen it, to the point where he can get up on it to take off, or learn to stand on it. I don't know. But he loves people, and loves to be held, or just sitting at the computer with me. And I thought, before I ever met him that he couldn't possibly have any quality of life with his legs that way, but actually, he is pretty content. He moves around the cage, eats and drinks on his own, and spends a lot of time out of the cage. And loves to fly. And, as was pointed out to me, he doesn't really know any better. So any ground we make is an improvement. And we have just fallen in love with him, so he's home. He will stay here and be our little house pigeon. And we'll work on improving things for him, and trying to strengthen that other leg. Jodi, as far as your question, the leg was splayed, the twisting of the muscles came about because of the way he uses the foot on that leg to grab things with. He did that to balance and get around. He twisted it to use it to his advantage. So even with the leg brought back in, the foot would have turned out some.


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## Charis

Jay3 said:


> Would you believe.........................that as well as he was wrapped up, which was done because he pushed up with his head and wings, and got out of the basket, that during the night, he still got out of the basket! Not only did he get out, but he then got out of the stocking that he was in, and managed to get to the side of the cage, move the bumper, and go up against the cage where the bottom pulls out from, and wedge his wing in between the bars. All this had to be done with that bad leg, which he uses like an arm and hand. He can push with it to balance, which is how he must have gotten out of the basket, And that is the only way he could have gotten out of the stocking. He would have had to hook onto it with the claws on that foot, and pull on it. The stocking was beside him on the floor of the cage. He was miserable, and very upset. That bad leg is soooo strong, as he used it constantly to get around and grab things with, that what he can do with it is just amazing. It was strong enough to pull it back where he likes it, along with the good leg. So that they were both going toward the right side. I was questioning whether it hurt him to bring it in to wrap it. I could have tried to devise something to suspend him from, but the whole thing would have had to be re-wrapped, and that bad leg is still strong enough to pull to the side anyway, and pull the good leg with it. The vet thought it doubful that at this stage it would make a difference, and I have to agree with her that it was probably too late to do it that way. So why put him through that for three weeks when it probably wasn't going to help him. I took the tape off. I think that if it could be corrected, it would have to be by surgery. Don't know if we can go there. But I'll call the vet and talk about it anyway. For now, he is as he was, but surprisingly enough, he seems very content that way. He can't walk, but he does get around in his own weird little way, and I have been holding him up so that he can take off, and he is learning to fly. Actually, he's doing well in that department, and learning to land on that good leg. Maybe he will strengthen it, to the point where he can get up on it to take off, or learn to stand on it. I don't know. But he loves people, and loves to be held, or just sitting at the computer with me. And I thought, before I ever met him that he couldn't possibly have any quality of life with his legs that way, but actually, he is pretty content. He moves around the cage, eats and drinks on his own, and spends a lot of time out of the cage. And loves to fly. *And, as was pointed out to me, he doesn't really know any better. So any ground we make is an improvement. And we have just fallen in love with him, so he's home. He will stay here and be our little house pigeon.* And we'll work on improving things for him, and trying to strengthen that other leg. Jodi, as far as your question, the leg was splayed, the twisting of the muscles came about because of the way he uses the foot on that leg to grab things with. He did that to balance and get around. He twisted it to use it to his advantage. So even with the leg brought back in, the foot would have turned out some.


.........


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## altgirl35

i think your right, i thought it probably hurt to be hobbled, i tried the sock also and he got out of it in no time, i actually ended up using a figure 8 wrap on both wings with cotton and vet wrap then wrapping the wings to his body, i felt so bad.
then i had him in a big rubbermaid tub with enough rolled towels to keep him up high enough so his legs would be straight down and tucked in tight so he wouldn't pull the good leg back with his bad leg. 
sometimes it's their imperfections that make them absolutely perfect, he's one of the sweetest babies i have ever met and he don't care that he has a bum leg, like i said he can wave hello to everybody as he fly's by.
give him a big kiss for me and tell him i love him


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## Jay3

Jodi, I told him you said "Hi". He's a very determined little guy. Last night, after holding him up and encouraging him to fly, he wanted to do more. He was on Dons lap, and he kept trying to get up on that good leg so that he could take off. He pushes with the out stretched leg, and he actually got up on the good leg for a few seconds. He did this a few times. I'm afraid if the leg was removed, and he didn't learn to balance or get up without it, then we'd be taking more from him. You had mentioned that before. Whether taking it off would actually help or hurt him. Anyway, it's a beautiful day here, and later on we'll be outside enjoying the sun. He loves going outside. I'm sure glad you emailed me, rather than putting him down.


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## altgirl35

oh he would still be in the rehab room, lol, and i would still be saying "allright!! one more week!! you need to stand up!"
my daughter would still be snuggling him after tubby time as i would, this baby was not going to be euthed, even though part of me thought he should, but my heart couldnt do it, he was just to sweet and seemed like he didn't care about his disability, i just worried about the poop being on him and the possibility he could start getting infections from it, if that happened then i would have to rethink everything.
i knew i had to find someone who was willing to put the work in to keep him healthy, and could afford what he needed, and i knew once the baby season started next year i wouldn't be able to do it so living with me wasn't the right place for him,
i'm so glad i found this site and you, i'm so happy to have an alternative for these sweet birds when they can't be released, this is success story number 2, clipper who was taken in by wolfwood was the first, i hope i don't have any more, but i betcha i will, i only wish i could do it for all the birds i get
he would have been moved to the living room, i had a big parrot cage ready for him, i don't like having any birds in that room cause that's where i like to smoke (i know i need to stop but it's the only thing that keeps me sane during baby season) when i finally get to plant my butt on the couch at night.
i'm so glad he's standing a little on that leg, i was doing some physical therapy by working his good leg a for a little while everyday, holding his back against my chest and doing the bicycle, grip and un grip, bend unbend, don't know if that actually will do any good but it was worth a shot


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## Jay3

I'm going to try to fix up something to suspend him by my computer, as I'm on a lot, and he loves keeping us company. If he is on his tummy all the time, the good leg will contract. Can't let that happen. He can keep me company for a while each day, and get off that leg. Also, it might help him to strengthen it, by pushing down on it. I'll make it so that his foot reaches the desk, so that he can stand on it. Any other ideas would be welcomed.


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## altgirl35

thats a good idea!!


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## altgirl35

make a little bar bell for him to lift, lol


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## altgirl35

does he have a name yet??


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## Jay3

altgirl35 said:


> does he have a name yet??


Not really. Don likes Jake, but that is a strong name, and VERY male. I'm not sure this isn't a little girl. As h/she is so sweet and gentle. When we put our hands near him, gently preens all along your hand and wrist. Don't know if a male handicapped in this way would respond to a mirror or not, but this one doesn't seem to at all. So something generic would be safer, but just haven't settled on one yet. Has to suit him/her.


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## altgirl35

how bout sam, that was the name of the first bird i fell head over heels in love with, you can read about her on my website below CAwild birds.
jack would be cool cause you can change it to jacky, he was found at the paint factory in gloucester but i can't find a name in that, but it's on the water.
and of course baby is what i have called him, besides my little gimpy but those names are not so dignified, i call all the piji's baby if they are babies, unless they have something that makes them stand out


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## Jay3

Thanks. LOL. As far as Sam, that's cute, as it can be for male or female Sammy or Samantha. I already have a rescue named Sammy, and his son is Samson (Sams son). Thought that was cute. But I always shorten names to call them, so half the time, they both end up Sammy.


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## altgirl35

how's our baby doing now?? i still miss him


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## Jay3

Doing great! Loves to be out with us. Loves to fly, and his/her favorite seed is safflower. LOL. Still don't know whether it is a male or female. Sometimes coos softly to us. Likes to look at his reflection in the mirror, but doesn't react to it. Just sits and looks at it. Gets all over his cage with that little leg which is very much like a hand. Doesn't care for the therapy on his good leg, but then who does? Likes to be snuggled. Preens a lot, and likes to preen me. He's very interested in everything that goes on, and likes sitting on the lap of anyone who visits. Adorable little bird. We just love him, if it is a him. I'll tell him that you asked for him. I'm sure he'll be pleased.


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## altgirl35

hows he doing with landing


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## Jay3

altgirl35 said:


> hows he doing with landing


He lands on his feet, then tries to stand, but loses his balance, and then ends up sitting down. He does try to get up on his feet, so that he can take off by himself, but that darn leg goes out from under him, so he hasn't mastered getting up. He goes to the edge of the chair and tries to flap to take off by himself, but only ends up fluttering down to the carpet. It frustrating watching him. I feel so bad for the poor little thing. He tries sooo hard.


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## Jay3

Today we brought Scooter, which is what we have named him, because of the way he/she scoots around with the help of that splayed leg, into the loft to sit in the sunny window and meet the other birds. He seemed to enjoy it. And they came over to check him out. I lowered him into the bath that I had set up for the others, and he actually seemed to like it. Dunked his head and everything. Of course, I kept my hands near him in the water so that he could touch me with that foot and keep his balance. That way he felt safe in the water. Then we set him in a box of pumpkins and gourds and straw on the bottom. These things gave him something to balance against with his little foot. He sat there for quite a while watching the others. He even got himself up on the edge of the wooden box by flapping his wings, and he perched on the good leg, and used the splayed one to balance. The others came over to introduce themselves, and everything went fine. No one bothered him. And I didn't leave him alone. He also spent some time in the aviary in the sunshine, and we just sat outside and watched. He really enjoyed it. He was so tired after his afternoon outside that he snuggled up in dons lap when we came back inside, and took a nap. He's a sweetheart of a bird. And he does a little better all the time.


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## altgirl35

AWWWW!!!! SCOOTER I LOVE IT!!! how perfect, lol love the pic soooo cute, i'm so glad he's a spoiled little bird, thank you thank you thank you you made my night!


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## TAWhatley

Lovely photo of Scooter and a lovely update!

Terry


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## Jay3

Thanks. We just love him. He likes to go into the loft to visit, but lives in our livingroom, atop a five foot high cupboard. From there he can watch all the goings on, and is safe from our two dogs. He is out of his cage much of the time that we are home. We gate the dogs out of the room, and pull a curtain, just in case he should fly in that direction when he flies. If he had his way, he'd be held or perched on a lap 24/7. He will go to anyone. When people come over, and I lift him to fly, he will fly to them. They love holding him in their lap while they visit. Most have never held a pigeon before. The guy that built the loft for us, loves to watch me interact with the birds, and went out and bought a little green cheeked parrot. He's an animal lover, and said that I made him want a bird. He loves holding Scooter when he stops by. We usually have him up later than he should be, as he snuggles up in our laps and snoozes. He complains when I pick him up to put him back in his cage, but goes willingly. Then his cage is covered and he goes nite-nite. I'm in the loft often, and will be bringing him in with me to give him a change of scenery. I'm going to build him his own little box to keep in there for when he visits. And when I can't stay out there, I have moved a cage up to the window that looks into the loft, where he can sit and watch the other birds for a while. Don't want him to be bored. I want to look into getting some sort of light that gives him the benefits of sunlight, to put over his regular cage in the living room. Does anyone know where to get one of those? Is it just the full spectrum flourescent lights you can buy, or is it something different? And how much natural sun does he need daily or weekly?


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## altgirl35

you can get one here, but there are all kinds all over the net, this place is one f the cheapest i have found for supplies and food for my parrots, they don't kill you with the shipping
http://www.petsolutions.com/Default.aspx?ItemID=97634610
they really only need a couple of hours, but it's okay to leave it on sun up to sun down
the thing about the bulbs is after a couple of months they stop giving off the uva light even if they still are lighting up, can i steal his picture for my facebook page??


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## spirit wings

that is crazy cute! It gave me the biggest smile....I love fall time.


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## Charis

Jay...you are just the best!


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## Jay3

altgirl35 said:


> can i steal his picture for my facebook page??


You sure can. In fact, I'll email you some cute pics and you may do anything you like with them. He IS very photogenic, isn't he? I got in a little while ago, and haven't had time to take him out of the cage yet. He's annoyed with me. I DO have to clean sometimes. When I go by come into the room, he flaps and stares at me, which is his way of saying, "Get over here and let me out so that I can fly some, and perch on the chair where I like to be." I'm going to take the little monster out now. Wait til I tell him that you want to use his pic on facebook. He'll love it! 

And thanks for the links. I'll check them out later. And change them out every couple of months. During the summer, he'll be outside a lot with me, confined, of course. He can sit in the sun and watch me work around the yard. Keep me company.


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## altgirl35

cool thank you jay, can you send e-mail the one on here, for some reason my puter won't let me resize it it


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## Jay3

altgirl35 said:


> cool thank you jay, can you send e-mail the one on here, for some reason my puter won't let me resize it it


Sure thing.


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## Jay3

Today we had Scooter out in the loft while I cleaned up and played with the birds for a while. We put Scoot in a little wire basket on a table near the window. The table is about 20 inches high I think. I was standing about four feet away from the table, and had about three other pigeons on me. My shoulders, my head, and chest. All of a sudden, there was a comotion. Scooter actually flew up from the wire box, and landed on my arm. He didn't really land all that well, as there wasn't much room in the way that I was holding my arm at that moment. He kinda grabbed on, and was flailing to remain there, while hanging onto my shirt sleeve. My husband ran over and caught him before he lost his balance. I couldn't believe it! He actually flew UP. Usually I hold him up for him to take flight, and he flies down toward Dons lap, as he is sitting in his chair. But this time he flew up to my arm. Amazing! He just keeps surprising us. I don't know how he got take off. If he was able to get up on the good leg or what, as I hadn't noticed him trying to get up. All of a sudden, he was just there. We're so proud of him.
The other day, he was in one chair in the living room. We left the room for a couple of minutes, and when we returned, he was in another chair a few feet from the one that he was in. We just looked at each other. He's something else, our Scooter.


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## altgirl35

what a good boy! tell him i'm proud of him! his pic is my desk top now so i get to look at his sweet face wishing me happy autumn every day


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## Jay3

I'll tell him. He actually isn't an unhappy bird. He's enjoying spending time with us, and he seems to like the time we spend in the loft. The others come over to check him out. Of course we never leave him alone out there. Here's a pic of Rascal, our 6 week old youngster coming over to say Hi. Rascal in particular seems very interested in Scooter. It was cute.


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## altgirl35

awww, sweet babies


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## malfunctional

Poor little guy. Is that his foot splayed out over the edge of the basket?


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## Jay3

malfunctional said:


> Poor little guy. Is that his foot splayed out over the edge of the basket?


Yes it is. He's a couple of months old. Too old to correct it by taping. Maybe surgery would do it, at Angel memorial or somewhere like that. But that would be VERY expensive. Removing the leg would take away his balancing with it, and also that is what he uses to turn and get around. And I'm not sure that he'd learn to get up on the other leg without it. Then he would be worse off. He has been learning to get up more with the help of that leg.


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## Jay3

Well, yesterday I put Scooter down on my recliner, and stopped for a moment at the computer to check on something, and all of a sudden, the little monkey was perched on my arm. I was about 10 to 12 feet away. We put him back, and he did this 3 different times. He's getting pretty good at take offs, and maneuvering. So now he can get himself around some. There goes the living room. LOL. Jodi, he's come a long way!


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## altgirl35

i had a feeling he would, he's adapting to his disability, and the fact that he so young makes it easier for him, what a good boy


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## Jay3

SCOOTERS STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sooooooo excited! He has been able to get up, just a little, to fly a bit. He loves to fly, and we practice that. And he really enjoys it, so now he tries to stand up so that he can take off. Tonight, he was sitting on Dons lap, as he often is, and he got up and flew around in a circle and then returned to Dons lap. It was soooo cool. He has just been able to get up to fly to me, But tonight, in his cage, he was standing up and turning around. He would go down, but got right up again. He stood there looking at me as I grabbed my camera to take his picture. And just now, when I went to take him from his cage, he took a couple of steps toward me. OMG! He can stand, And WALK! 
Oh Jodie, I'm so glad we took him. He has come such a long way. What a little fighter. I'm so proud of him. 



















We just love this little one.


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## Mindy

Jay 3, Loved this story, love little scooter. I have something to confess. I thought you were a guy. Jay 3 got me confused I guess. So if I have called you a him in past posts please forgive me. min


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## Jay3

Mindy said:


> Jay 3, Loved this story, love little scooter. I have something to confess. I thought you were a guy. Jay 3 got me confused I guess. So if I have called you a him in past posts please forgive me. min


Hi Mindy, that happens all the time. LOL. LOL. LOL.


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## TAWhatley

You go, Scooter! Great progress with Scooter, Jay3! Scooter is truly another Pigeon-Talk success story from members working together to help a needy bird and get it to a wonderful forever home! Well, well done altgirl35 and Jay3!

Terry


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## altgirl35

oh jay, making me cry, he is such a little trooper, he is such a special little boy, i'm so glad you saw what i saw in him, i still think about him all the time, give him big kisses for me


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## Jay3

We're pretty happy for him.This morning when Don uncovered his cage, Scooter stood up to greet him. He stood on the good leg, and balanced, and he wasn't using the splayed leg to balance at all. I mean, I'm sure he used it to get up, but once up, he just balanced there on the one leg. Looked just like a normal pij sleeping on one leg. He seems pretty pleased with himself. And I should think it would be a bit difficult to balance on a soft surface. His cage floor is padded with towels and lambs wool under the top towel to make it soft for him. Good exercise. He's amazing. Pigeons are amazing little birds. The way they can adapt is something else. He's the one to get the credit. He has worked so hard.


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## altgirl35

i just told the dog officer that brought him to me about how good he is doing and how much he is loved, she's going to e-mail me so i can send her the link to this post so she can see for herself, she saw he was a special little guy also


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## Jay3

Awww, that's nice. It's something that one little bird can matter to so many different people. I hope she feels better about him. I'm sure glad that she brought him to you. And that you PMed me about him.


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## spirit wings

bless his little heart..he really is such a pretty bird!!!!!


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## Jay3

Thanks. He's really much prettier in person. My photos don't do him justice. And he's friendly. He just loves being on us. He flies to us, settles in, and wants to just stay there. He hates it when I pick him up to put him back into his cage. He thinks he's going to sleep on our lap all night. He's really something else. Great company!


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## mr squeaks

What a GREAT heartwarming story!!

Scooter is TERRIFIC! But, of course you already know this!!

Looking forward to further Scooter adventures!

We are sending all our best with LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES

Shi/Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## Mader631

when I started with pigeons I didn't know squabs needed good footing in there nests, squab was raised on plywood, I looked at it & it's one leg was the same like you said about your bird, anyways to make a long story short, I used athletic tape & taped the legs together & it fixed the problem within a week........I added straw to the nest & that bird turned out fine. That birds leg was straight out too....... Was surprised only 1-week fixed it, Still have that bird & you can't tell he's ever had a problem.


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## altgirl35

oh i tried and tried mader, i think he was like that for a long time before i got him


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## Jay3

Anyway, now the leg is formed in that position. Too late. That's why it is so important to give them good traction in the nest bowl or box. And if caught early enough, or young enough, it is normally very fixable. But he really is making great strides. We have worked with him to try and strengthen the good leg, and get him flying to strengthen his wings also. Because he loves to fly, he just kept trying to get up on the good leg, as that is the only way he will be able to take off. He could eventually get up barely enough to take off, but now he can actually stand on that good leg. And last night he walked a couple of steps. For him, this is great! Today, he was standing up on the one good leg as he ate. First time I've seen that. He looks so cute balancing on the one leg.


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## Jay3




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## Mindy

Scooter is gorgeous and he really does look happy. And I also want to thank you for giving him a great life and a another chance at life. Great job Jay 3, min


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## Jay3

Thanks Mindy. We have spent a lot of time with Scooter, but it has always been a pleasure. He is really a very nice and friendly little bird. We just love him. I enjoy the time we spend together. Brave little Scooter has done most of the work. He's the one who had to learn to work with what he has. We just helped him a little. We are blessed in having him. We really are. But we don't deserve the credit. He does.


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## Jay3

I opened his cage door this morning, but didn't take him out. Wanted to see what he would do. I didn't really think that he could get over the front bars of the cage to fly out, but just wanted to see. He did! And I was sitting here, on the other side of the room, talking to him, with my camera. But when he jumped out and flew to me, I was so shocked that I didn't even think to snap a picture. I could scream! His first solo flight from his cage, and I sat here with me mouth wide open as he flew across the room and landed on the back of my computer chair. Too much! He is very proud of himself.










Scooter sitting in the window nest to my computer. Excuse me.............STANDING in the window nest to my computer!


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## Mindy

Jay 3, I agree, Scooter did do all the work, but without you he wouldn't have had the chance to do the work. I think this is a heartwarming story of hope and love and giving a bird a chance. Everyone who reads this can learn something. min


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## altgirl35

i just love scooter!!!he's the coolest dude ever!!!sooo sweet, what a good boy!


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## spirit wings

what a trooper!, he is extra special for sure. is that snow I see outside your window?


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## Jay3

spirit wings said:


> what a trooper!, he is extra special for sure. is that snow I see outside your window?


LOL. No, not snow. It was sooo bright outside that I had a hard time taking the picture. Lots of sun comes in there in the morning. So everything outside just came out real bright. Please.......................we did have snow once here already in October. Soon we will have more than enough.


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## Jay3




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## Jay3




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## altgirl35

scooter looks like he's standing really well!! do you think he's part homer??
and merry christmas to you 2!!


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## Jay3

He does stand well, and he flies well. He chases me around as I get ready for work. He's too funny. Don't know about part homer, but try to put him back into his cage, and you'd think he was part Tasmanian devil. LOL. What a brat.


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## altgirl35

lol, my little sweetie turning into a little stinker!! oh why do they have to all grow up.
i always thought he had homer in him, he was so much bigger than all the other feral babies i have ever had with such big eyes and big beak.
i'm still stunned how far he came along, was afraid he would be a potato bird only able to sit there his whole life, these birds amaze me with their ability to adapt, heal and survive.
scooter is a success story i will be proud of the rest of my life, he taught me alot


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## Jay3

He is growing up, that's for sure. But he's still a sweetheart. If you pick him up he fights you, as he thinks he's going into his cage. But if, instead, you just cuddle him, he snuggles right in. He loves attention and being held. Just doesn't want to go into the cage. And why should he when that is where he spends his time when we are at work?
Believe me, he has taught me a lot too. I didn't know what fighters they could be, or how determined. With them, you just never know, You can't sell them short, just have to give them a chance and a little help along the way. And you could be surprised. Don't know what his mix is, but he certainly has a lot of personality.


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## Msfreebird

What a Sweetie! Great pictures


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