# Teaching a baby pigeon to fly and eat alone ?



## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Hello everyone and greetings from Bucharest, Romania

I've just created the account to ask a few questions as i've seen people are really helpful and knowledgeable around here.
My girlfriend and I found a baby pigeon on the ground in the back of my apartment block and we've tried to look for a pigeon coop but there was none in sight or anywhere we could possibly reach.
We didn't want to leave him on the ground between the cars as there are a lot of stray cats around and probably wouldn't have lived long so we just took it in to take care of him.

On Saturday we struggled with him as he was pretty scared but wouldn't run away or anything but he wouldn't eat or drink at all so we just improvised and fed him some moist bread in really small chunks by opening his beak and putting it in.

On Saturday we followed the same procedure but we also bought him some parrot food (budgie food) not sure which is the exact name in english and i couldn't find any translation for it but it's basically this with added vitamins and stuff: http://featheredfriendz.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/5/6/10565347/l02.jpg . We continued to feed him by opening his beak and putting it in there with ocasional breaks and water feeding.

Monday evening has been a bit of a breakthrough as he started to eat from my girlfriend's hand after we put him this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkesM5zntuA&index=9&list=WL and he started listening to the cries of baby pidgeons asking for food. He then started to ask for food as well so we just put moist bread with the budgie food and wheat grain and he started to kind of suck and slowly peck the food and by the end of the meal there was food all over the floor but he learned how to kinda peck the food, rip the moist bread and eat it like he should.

Yesterday (Tuesday) was another breakthrough for us. In the morning we hand fed him again which took about 30 minutes with trips to the bathroom so he can drink water (apparently he likes drinking water from the sink or from the tap directly rather than his bowl that we left for him -_-). During lunch i normally come back from work to eat so i fed him as well, same trick hand feeding + bathroom and I've lowered my hand each time so he can get comfortable with eating closer to the ground. The greatest thing happened when i came from work during the evening as my girlfriend was hand feeding him until she just basically put all of his food in a small bowl and he started eating by himself from the bowl. We were very proud of him with such a great progress in just 2 days from putting food down his throat to eating almost unattended.

This morning we've done the same, started from the hand and put it in the bowl where he ate just a bit, although he was kind of full already from the meal he had before going to sleep last night.

My questions are:

1) How can we switch him to be completely independent on food and water and when and how can we stop giving him moist bread and just switch him to solid bread + wheat grains and/or budgie food

2) From what i read the father teaches the baby how to fly and everything, how can we teach our baby to fly? We're not sure if it's a female or a male pigeon as he has not started cooing yet but i'd like to know if it's still possible for the little guy to learn how to fly and join other pigeons.

At the moment i keep him loose in the balcony of my apartment which is pretty large for him to move around all day long and during the night we keep him in a budgie cage that my girlfriend previously had for a parrot.
We also train him to flap his wings and fly around in a enclosed spaces but he's still messy. He usually just sits around and sometimes he just visits places and walks (haven't seen him fly alone though).

What can we do to help him? I feel really sorry for him to be alone all day long without his fellow pigeons and we'd like to slowly let him reintegrate. Our vet took a look at him and he has had some eye disease which was almost cured and gave him an injection and suggested that we do not release him directly in the wild as he will not survive and just put it in the balcony and leave a window open with food and water where he can reach it. This way he may leave and come back when he wants. Also by looking at him he suggested that he's about 40-50 days old but we looked on the internet and he looks more like 30 days old.

Below you can find a few pictures and a video of him gulping food:

Pictures & Video

Any advice is greately appreciated!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi, 
He seems almost 40 days old by pics and at this age usually they are weaned so if he wasn't eating on his own earlier, he must be under stress and so now being familiar to his surroundings and you people he has started eating on his own. About feed, pls don't give him bread, it is not healthy for them, if you can get wild pigeon/dove mix it will be great for him. You can continue giving wheat grains and budgies mix until you don't get pigeon feed mix. 
As far as flying is, he should fly at this age, if not very well but still he will try short flights, so aren't you seeing him trying that in your house if you open him from cage. Give him some time open in room and he will fly well within some days. 
I couldn't get what was the problem with his eye, is it some visible infection, if so can you pls post a closer pic of that eye? If it is healed, have you noted he can see from that eye as well, so why your vet said, he won't be able to survive in wild? Is there any other problems your vet mentioned or noted?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

@Kiddy thanks for the reply and we'll try to cut down on bread but he doesn't seem to want to eat anything else so i'll try to go and get some pigeon mix if i can find a pet shop that sells any.

Regarding the eye disease it's not present anymore and it was more of a runny eye like some sort of tears. It's healed now however and we've cleaned up the area around his eyes with saline solution (i think that's the correct translation) as the vet suggested. Also regarding the vet he said that we should not release him in a park or something as he won't be able to feed and care for himself and we should just open a window on the balcony and allow him to come and go as he pleases.

I am going home in 10minutes to feed him and hopefully i can get some pictures of his eyes and try to feed him some wheat grain and budgie food.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Okay, back from home.

https://goo.gl/photos/HJreJJs9KiLZJwaf7

That's the link with the food i'm giving him now, his eyes from both sides and a video of him eating seeds by himself. He's still struggling as he's throwing food everywhere but we're getting there at a fast pace. I'm proud of him.

When he saw me come home he/she flapped his/her wings and when i sat next to him/her and he/she lifted a bit off the ground. Regarding the flight i tried a bit of training with him before i left and it would seem that he's nowhere near ready to fly at all. From my hand i slowly lowered it and he started flapping his wings and after he was not on my hand anymore he just slowly flapped down. This is probably how he managed to survive the fall from the coop before we found him. We'll continue training him a few times a day and when we're comfortable with him eating alone and flying all over the place we'll also open the balcony window for him to come and go as he wants. 

Any tips at all with how we should proceed or if we've done something wrong until now? Also should we limit the contact to only feeding/giving water? Will he be too attached to humans?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you so much for rescuing the little guy!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks for the pics and video. 
Ok if he is not trying to fly now, may be he is a little younger but his flight and tail wings show, he will be soon starting to fly. And I don't think any stress on him is needed by tossing him and teaching him to fly, they learn it themselves, flying is in their blood. No parents toss them, they just follow their parents and when no parents they learn themselves. So don't worry and continue giving feed and water and he will be fine. 
Yes they do bond with humans and when they get tame they become unafraid of them so if to be released it is necessary that they have a fear of humans because humans as well as predators may harm them. So if you have to release him just limit his care to feed and water and if he is eating on his own, don't feed him in hand rather give seeds only in a dish. If he doesn't drink, you can dip his beak in a water dish (just beak not nostrils) and in a few times he will start sipping water. 
As far as his release, he shouldn't be released now because he is very young and until he flies well and gain strength in wings he should be kept indoor, not even on balcony because if he somehow flies off, he wouldn't be able to return and will be easy bait for predators as he doesn't know how to fly and forage for food. 
Are you keeping him open in balcony? If so he isn't safe at all, you should keep him where he is safe from predators inside house and where he can't fly off at this age.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If I were you, I would close off the balcony with maybe shade cloth (or something else as long as he can see outside) for a month. Secure so that no cats can get inside and he can't get out. Build him a nice roosting place in the one corner high up with a mirror where he can sleep every night. He'll spend most of the time there and then it's easier to clean the droppings as well. Put his food and water there as well. Let him spend a month or maybe more time in there so that he can get use to the surroundings and the outside world.

And when you're comfortable he's old enough, just open up one day. Then he's got a place to come back to for sleeping and eating. That's now if you want to release him one day.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Thanks for the advice everyone i'll keep everything in mind.

For the balcony it's enclosed with 2 double windows of which half are closed and the other halves have mosquito nests so nothing can get in or out. I keep him and the cage on the floor with a small rug and a cloth where he normally sits and lounges when he's not exploring the balcony. until mid day it's shady and the rest is nice as he isn't always standing in the sun unless he wants to. 

We've grown attached of the little guy and it's hard to ignore him all day as i feel sorry for the little guy so when we're around we occasionally take him on our hands talk to him and scratch him. Hopefully he won't get too attached though, also we plan after a few weeks to take him to my girlfriend's aunt (lives at house with a backyard) who will also have 2 white fluffy pigeons (the ones with the huge opened tail) to sit around and play with. Also near her house there are a lot of pigeons that sit on the house next door.

I have one more question. The area around his neck and some parts of his back/under the wings are bald or not grown at all yet and i'm a little worried that he won't grow those as i don't see any small tufts of feathers or anything starting to grow there. Should we be concerned or they'll eventually develop?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh yes, I wanted to ask you but just forgot and posted. He seemed to have bald spot but it wasn't clearly seen as him being black. Can you post a clear close pic of that neck area? And even of under wings? Also if he has such bald neck area he should be treated for canker. 
Can you get metronidazole or flagyl there on any human drug store or per store?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I would assume i can find that, but is that even recommended for pigeons? What are the side effects ? Isn't canker a bit too much ?

EDIT: Looking at the pictures of canker on pigeons he has nothing anywhere near close, besides the vet checked every part of him including the beak and inside and he gave him the OK. Also i really trust the vet as he also used to treat my Siberian Husky and his diagnosis were always spot on!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Bald patches indicate as sign of canker many times especially when there are full feathers everywhere. This can simply mean he has a high trichomonads level and they multiply fast when the bird is under stress. Metronidazole strikes down their level to what it should be in body as all pigeons have trichomonads but when their number increases it is a disease called canker. Canker can't be always seen, it can be anywhere in body. Canker in throat can be seen by opening his beak the way everyone checks it but if anywhere else in body like in crop, sinus etc it can't be checked. For a feral bird who has to be released it is highly recommended to treat for canker at least before release so he can live healthy in wild. It doesn't harm the bird to treat for canker as well, at this time he will require 5-7 days of treatment but if it advances it may take more. 
Canker is not too much, it is among most common diseases in pigeons so usually all of us have metronidazole on hand just in case it is required. 
Can you pls post a clear pic of bird's areas of bald patches? 
Have you visited an avian vet to get the bird checked?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a clear close up of him from the front? Bread really doesn't give him nutrition, but if he is going to be released eventually, then maybe giving bread also is a good idea, so that he will recognize it as a food source, and throw in whatever else pigeons around there are fed when people feed them, so he learns to eat those things. Just make sure he does did mainly nutritious seed. But when he is released, people may not be feeding those seeds, and he will have to know to eat other things unfortunately.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

https://goo.gl/photos/LqmHrnsbtVNPMb1W8

You can find above different pictures from different angles from under it's wings, it's chest, it's head/eyes etc.
Also I managed to find Metronidazole Arena in a local pharmacy of 250 mg and i got 8 pills (5 days?), you can see the pictures of the pills and the package (although i'm sure it greatly differs from country to country). How much do we give him and how? 1/4 of pill? How many times a day? Directly in the throat? or in water?
What are the side effects? Can he overdose?

and finally, does he have canker as we saw no evidence of it (looking at other canker pigeon pictures on the internet) in his throat or on the patches.
I had to ruffle his feathers a bit on the chest so you can see exactly what's under there.

Regarding the vet i just found an article on him regarding the breeding of pigeons so this makes me further believe he is more than qualified in what he told me about the bird. From the looks of it, the there might be small tufts of feathers starting to grow but i'll give it until the end of the week to see how it turns out and if i won't see any improvements i'll go to the vet again and tell him the advice with Metronidazole that i received here and see what he has to say.
Thing is i don't want to pump any meds in the little guy if there's no actual need to do that as it might screw up his immune system.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

OK as I see the pics, just one thing to ask, does it seem that the bare patches near eyes are a result of being pecked and feathers pulled by other birds because the area seems rough? Or you see there is no feathers growth at all? On crop I see complete bald patch. I would treat for canker for sure but since Jay is in thread so i would wait for Jay's response as well.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Also you will get no evidence until it advances and the bird suffers, this seems a sign of canker, you think it is normal for a bird to have such bald patches? Doesn't it seem abnormal? 
We see such examples every next day here and finally the bird has to be treated for canker when it gets sick and people don't get medicines without prescription in U. S and it takes so much time that bird even dies sometimes. Thankfully you have got medicine on hand so let Jay respond first and then treat. It won't harm the bird if not overdosed, medicine will be directly given in mouth just 30 mg (after breaking it to required dose) for 5-7 days. Nothing to worry about medication only the canker is to be worried about when the bird is to be released too because he won't get medicines in wild.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I thought it was just young that his feathers are not fully developed yet. I will wait for Jay3's response as well regarding if i should give him pills and how much i should break it and how many times a day i should administer it.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes I can understand if you haven't seen growing them up, you can easily think it is because of he is young. 
But feathers grow evenly, not full feathered on some places and just bald on others, there should be at least some on where the bald patches are . So it isn't normal. 
For your 250 mg tablet, you will have to break it in 8-9 pieces and will have to give him one piece in one day i. e almost 30 mg daily in his mouth down the throat. 
This is about dosage but wait for until it is morning in U.S.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

kiddy said:


> Yes I can understand if you haven't seen growing them up, you can easily think it is because of he is young.
> But feathers grow evenly, not full feathered on some places and just bald on others, there should be at least some on where the bald patches are . So it isn't normal.
> For your 250 mg tablet, you will have to break it in 8-9 pieces and will have to give him one piece in one day i. e almost 30 mg daily in his mouth down the throat.
> This is about dosage but wait for until it is morning in U.S.


I shall wait, however i have to ask, after the the treatment will his feathers grow? Do we have to do something else to help?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

These will grow, don't worry. If you can give him vitamins in water, this will help him more. We give them vitamins and calcium as well during their molt. I really appreciate your concern about a feral bird. Thanks for your care for him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The reason we asked for more clear close ups head on is because those pics aren't great. Hard to see what we are looking for. 
Just because your vet breeds pigeons, doesn't make him an expert. Many vets don't know enough about pigeons, breeder or not. 
I would give 30 mg. once daily for 7 to 10 days and then go from there. Quarter the pill, then cut each quarter in half. That would be the daily dose. Metro can upset their stomach, so you would give it after feeding him. If it does still make him vomit, which it very well may not, but sometimes can, then a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul about 30 minutes before feeding and medicating usually works. You cannot always see canker, but the lack of feathering is often a symptom of it. And any bird under stress can easily come down with canker. Very common.
Also, you said that he was kind of full in the morning from his feed last night. It isn't a good sign. The crop had plenty of time to empty during the night. If there is a crop blockage that is preventing the food from passing through, that can also be caused from canker. You feed him, then wait for the crop to empty before feeding again. This can take anywhere from 4 to 6 hours. Don't feed till it is empty as you will cause crop problems by adding new food to old. Also, adding a bit of warmed (not hot), baby apple sauce to his food is good for the crop ph, and helps to move things through.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Hmm then we have gone wrong there as we leave him with food all the time. We'll restrict the food to 3-4 times a day and we'll start to give him metronidazole. 

Thank you for the advice Jay and kiddy, we'll keep you posted.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry. I thought you were hand feeding him. Didn't remember. Okay, then leaving food with him is fine. It's if you are hand feeding him, and he isn't eating on his own, that you would let the crop empty. Since that isn't the case, you are doing fine. I apologize for that. Is he eating enough on his own?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> I'm sorry. I thought you were hand feeding him. Didn't remember. Okay, then leaving food with him is fine. It's if you are hand feeding him, and he isn't eating on his own, that you would let the crop empty. Since that isn't the case, you are doing fine. I apologize for that. Is he eating enough on his own?


Yes he is eating on his own and gets to exercise by walking around the balcony, i recorded him with my gopro today. He sleeps, flaps his wings, eats, didn't see him drink water though and we also feed him 3-4 times a day, as in we stand on the ground with him and peck the food with our fingers. He starts crying and eats some more but not much hehe.

PS: We always make sure he drinks water when we're around.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Try to see that he is getting enough into himself. Note how much of the food is gone. If not, then you may need to pop some defrosted and warmed peas.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We normally check his crop and it's normally with enough food aka he's never starving ever since he started eating from our hands on monday and since wednesday morning alone.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Am I right in understanding you are just feeding bread?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Charis said:


> Am I right in understanding you are just feeding bread?


We have stopped feeding him bread when we were told it has no nutritional value and we just switched him to wheat grain and parrot food. Check the pictures here: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=aE84UWVucDhmNFdXWlBoUzZLQTRSSFljdlJmSlNB


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Because i wanted to keep him out of the cold and heat i took him inside and put him in his cage and on a room where i thought the ac wouldn't reach him but i think he caught a cold or something because he keeps his right eye almost closed and doesn't have any apettite at all. 

My gf ia hand feeding him now and he's pecking and gulping some food but not like he used to. Pretty sure he caught a draft or something. What should we do? Any pill or something that would work for people?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Sad to hear about his sickness, they don't like cold atmosphere, they like warmth. 
Now does he seem to be with any other ailments like difficult breathing or fluffed up? How is his poop? 
Or just one eye cold? 
Update about all the symptoms so experts could guide you. He will need some eye drop as well depending upon what the problem is actually.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Poop seemed very well, not watery pretty standard from what we can tell. He kept only one eye closed which he would ocasionally open and he seems to breathe fine he was looking fluffy though and he barely ate, but he drank a lot of water. 

We're not home until later this evening but we left him on the balcony with a lot of food and water. Should be pretty hot during the afternoon but we left the house door open so he can come inside if he desires.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well they don't like it too hot, so bringing him in where he may be more comfortable, in a room where it wasn't too cold was a good thing. Have you checked his throat, way down with a flashlight? See if there is anything that looks cheesy down there? Canker can act like that, and it would also make him drink a lot. Canker doesn't always show, but sometimes it will show in the throat.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We will check when we get home later this evening. Anything else we can do for the little guy? At this rate i am afraid to release him as i don't think he will be able to take care of himself out there


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He needs Metro, as he is showing signs of canker. If your vet didn't check under a microscope from a swab from his throat and crop, then he didn't check for canker. It may not show in his throat, but the lack of feathers under the chin, the closed eye, not eating and drinking a lot. More than likely canker, which any pigeon can have from any stressful situation, which he certainly has been going through. If you keep waiting on giving him the meds, he will get sick and weaker, then you will be convinced that he should be treated. Only then it takes longer to treat.
He is too young to take care of himself. And in a couple of months when he is stronger and flying better, if just released, he won't know how to live in the wild. He won't know where or how to find food and water. They learn from their parents and the flock. Without being part of a flock, they can't survive out there. There is safety in numbers.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

MrHollow said:


> Hmm then we have gone wrong there as we leave him with food all the time. We'll restrict the food to 3-4 times a day and we'll start to give him metronidazole.
> 
> Thank you for the advice Jay and kiddy, we'll keep you posted.


Haven't you started treating him with metronidazole as was suggested? And you said two days back you will start? I would think you started?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We have not started yet but we will tomorrow morning with the first half a quarter 30mg.

We came home 1hour ago and his crop was full meaning he ate and his eye seems to be improving. We have cleaned him again and gave him some water, socialized a 15mins and put him in the cage to sleep. This time no more sleeping anywhere close to the ac.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

His crop can be full if he has eaten on his own or may be if he isn't able to digest what was given through hand feed due to illness. 
Anyways start the treatment soon.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

His crop was empty in the morning when we woke up and he barely ate when hand fed. He ate on his own during the evening befor we got home because we checked and it was full. 

Will start


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If he ate on his own, that's good.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

First half a quarter pill was given 5 minutes ago. 

Any clues on what could happen that he keeps one of his eyes closed? we have been cleaning both of em with saline solution since we saw this and it seems it's a bit less swollen than yesterday but i'm not completely convinced.

Anything we can do about it?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Keep giving canker medicine for now. You will have to give him 1/8 part of your tablet at least for 7 days. Closed eye may be due to canker advancement. So he needs medicine.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

His eye is getting better and we'll continue to clean it. He's eating fine and drinking water on it's own, he's flapping his wings to show us he's ready to start flying and i keep training him when i see him really into it. 

Also, day 2 of the metro 

Things look good so far, i'm just sad for him because he has period when he just stays around doing nothing or sleeping and at other times he's just inspecting stuff, moving around heh


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Nice update  
Glad to know the bird is doing better


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He needs to rest and get well. He's doing better and that's good.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

He seems to be doing much better with his eye, he still closes it sometimes but it's clear and it seems to have no apparent issues, i'll try to get a clear shot later on.
We're aproaching the "I WANT TO FLY" period because he keeps flapping his wings and trying to take off, at this point i normally take him on my hand or a finger and slowly allow him to glide while he flaps his wings. Don't want to over work him until his metro treatment is finished but he certainly wants to learn to fly which is a great thing.

He eats on his own during the day but he won't eat at all when he's in the cage. In the morning he only eats a bit but at lunch time his crop is full so i'm proud of Poofy's progress.

Any tips regarding on how to train a feral to fly properly? :-s


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you have a little patience, you will see him flying soon without any training  
It is in their instinct, no parents catch and toss them to fly. They learn on their own, so be patient  
Let him do it on his own when he feels he is ready.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

From what i know the parents normally make the offspring follow them by flying to a nearby post or area and call them, and they have to make the jump and go to the dad, then they go back in and they practice each day a little bit.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I have a fledgling when he was young and not able to fly, I had to separate him from parents as I had to go out of town, I carried him with me and when I came back he was flying while during my tour I just hand fed him because I didn't have much time to be with him. 
Just shared my experience.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Do they require special attention while they are young? I'm talking about mine mostly as i don't like to see him left alone and we occasionally socialize with him and he's always happy to see us, flaps his wings and chirps


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As Kiddy has said, you don't teach them. They will fly on their own when ready.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Status update: She's doing great with continued metro treatment (half of a quarter pill) and we've seen no side effects. What worries me a bit are 2 things:
1) he still occasionally has her right eye closed like something is bothering her but i the eye looks exactly like the other one
2) her neck feathers have not begun to show up yet

Other than that, under her wings the feathers are all almost starting to come out and bloom and she looks great.
She's still in the process of wing stretching and flapping but now she's almost starting to lift off the ground by herself. I'm proud of her


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

He will be fine, don't worry. Let the metro treatment be completed. We will see and guide you if any symptoms persist after that. 
Good that he has started his initial steps of flying 

Thanks for the update.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Great job! Your little birdie is doing very well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It will take a while for the feathers to come in now. They will come in later.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Today is day 8 of the metro and the last half of a quarter pill, basically with today's part it's been a whole pill in total. Should we continue?

She seems very lively there are tufts of feathers EVERYWHERE under her wings, in her legs and on the chest and her back a bit. She's slowly getting feathers on her neck as well.

Her eye seems almost completely cured as she does not seem to keep it closed much or at all.

Also we're very worried that if we release her she won't be able to fend for herself let alone eat alone. She basically waits for us to give her food even though she has a lot of eat laying around, so she eats most of it when we're near her. Same goes for the water as she mostly sits on the water recipient and basically turn it over and wastes it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The baby is too young to be released. She needs to be flying well and eating on her own first. Even then, her chances for survival go down because she is being hand raised and not taught by her parents on how to find food, avoid predators, etc. They were meant to be part of a flock where they are safer. The young ones are taught by the others, and in a flock there are more eyes to watch for predators. She would need to slowly be introduced to a flock and become part of that flock in order to survive. A lone pigeon won't make it in the wild.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with Jay3. The pigeon will not survive on its own. It is not predator savvy.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm afraid that we'll have to raise her ourselves and she won't enjoy the freedom of flying that she needs.

Also should we continue with the metro treatment? It's been 8 days and 8 pills until yesterday.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Better to wait if she is too young to fly. Otherwise freedom of flying means predator meal.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she seems well, then you can probably stop the Metro. Just keep an eye to make sure she presents no symptoms.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Sooo basically at lunch this happened: https://goo.gl/photos/6XnXv964oF9Fwpcr8

I took her to have a drink and she just wanted to bathe around, so i just filled the sink with water and let her fluff around in it. Needless to say after her first bath i had to wrap her in a small fluffy towel thingy so she could get warm again cause where i'd put her she'd just want to sit down. She was wet and i dried her a bit using paper towels then she dozed off for about 40 minutes in the towel. 

After that was done she just flapped her wings making a mess on the balcony. She's a princess and now her feathers have started coming out on her towards the beak.


Still not sure about the eye though. Do they just keep one of their eyes closed when they want? I checked it and there doesn't seem to be anything with it.

EDIT: apparently his voice is changing from a sweet baby voice to something that seems lower pitched as if he has a cold lol.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

She seems to be doing well. Not sure about the eye though. Does she keep it closed all the time?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

That no longer is a problem as she closes it occasionally mostly when she's sleepy.

Also as i mentioned previously she's becoming really attached to us and now she has a tendency of ignoring food unless we sit with her and point at the food or rattle the seeds. As soon as she starts to see us move around the house she activates a bit and looks for us but either she's really lazy or she has some eyesight problems because compared to other pigeons i don't see her move much.

She's still active in terms of wing flapping and hopefully after all her feathers are out she'll be able to fly about and hopefully come to us when we extend our hands.

It seems fairly obvious to us that she won't be able to take care of herself out in the wilds and there are 2 options:
1) This is hopefully the best option for her, i'll give her to my uncle who has white fluffy tailed pigeons and a big pigeon loft where she can stay.
2) If 1 is not an option, i can buy her a big cage where she can stay while we're not at home. However i don't see her eating or drinking from the food/water dispensers that we had from the old budgie cage.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she eats on her own, then she can eat. Leave her with the food and she will eventually eat it. She isn't stupid. She isn't going to starve when there is feed right there. 
She will fly when she is ready. Make sure she has calcium and vitamin D3. Probiotcs would be good.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

MrHollow said:


> That no longer is a problem as she closes it occasionally mostly when she's sleepy.
> 
> Also as i mentioned previously she's becoming really attached to us and now she has a tendency of ignoring food unless we sit with her and point at the food or rattle the seeds. As soon as she starts to see us move around the house she activates a bit and looks for us but either she's really lazy or she has some eyesight problems because compared to other pigeons i don't see her move much.
> 
> ...



A lone pigeon may be less active, when there are other pigeons she may follow them, compete for food etc. Also they are happier with mates or in flock. Think when we are alone at home what will we do, whom will we talk. Lol. Just a thought but makes sense. So I think she is fine. 
Both of the options seem good for her. I would buy her a big cage and a mate too so she won't be alone


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

And 5 minutes ago she just started coo-ing and it's soooo funny


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Great!!! Yes it seems funny and I love that, half of coo is in and half out. Lol. And they think they have grown up.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Yesterday my girlfriend and I saw a possibly old pigeon with what looked like eye disease. Unfortunately i was against taking it home because i didn't want to affect P00fy and possibly lose both of them. I know it was a bit selfish but right now we have another bird to take care off and she has priority.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I would take him in and keep him in separate box far from previous bird. I would not differentiate between both of them. He too needed help and I would not leave him alone to die. Sad for him.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Unfortunately I didn't see it again today i assume that it flew away or someone else took him. Yesterday when we went towards the pigeon it started to move away from us so we didn't want to chase him on the street, but clearly that wasn't a baby pigeon.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

So i've been reading some threads lately and i've noticed this article: http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paramyxovirus__pmv_.php which states that some symptoms are: 

- Difficulty picking up seed, pecking and missing.
- Fine tremor of eyes or head

While he has no tremors his right eye sometimes is closed or nearly closed as if she's trying to rest/sleep and at other times it's completely wide open with no suggestion that it has any problems.
However, there are times when she's missing the food while trying to peck so i blamed the eye and when i try to feed her from my hand she normally picks up the seed but sometimes just shakes her head trying to eat it i reckon and makes a bit of a mess.

Could this by in any way related to the PMV? How can we provide her calcium and vitamin d3? We provide her water in a round ashtray like recipient made from glass that she won't easily turn over because she has a habit of standing on it's edge.

Any help with this? 

Btw yesterday i was talking with her trying to get her to come to me and she was really really trying to and eventually managed to jump and fly a bit on her way down to the floor towards me. On another try she literally just bolted off the couch and into the air flying towards the ceiling but i pulled my hand up near her so she wouldn't hurt herself.
Next time i'll let her land on her own as i think this is better if she wants to learn things on her own.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Most pigeons throw their feed around. They are looking for their favorite seeds. That's pretty normal.Pet shops usually sell bird supplements with calcium and vitamin D3. Crushed and cooked egg shells will supply calcium, but birds need vitamin D3 to be able to utilize any calcium they get. Therefore a supplement with both would be good.
She will learn to fly and land on her own. She needs to practice.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We keep trying hehe https://goo.gl/photos/WEVtfpoevhqU8xVu8!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very cute. He will learn.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree, cute bird who will learn soon.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Little sweety  
I love to see their flying efforts


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We may have overtamed her since she's really dependent on me now. I let her out on the balcony and she manages to walk straight to my room and she waits there until i lower my hand so she can get up. That and when i'm eatting she comes from the balcony and goes under the table, climbs on my foot and begins to slowly peck my leg until i take her from down there and put her on the couch or my upper part of the leg so she can be close to me. 

She seems extremely attached to me gonna be hard to let go of her when we take her to my uncle's pigeon coop.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I would miss her badly. In fact I wouldn't let her go  
I have a baby like this and I am tensed I have to leave him for more than a month  you reminded me of that. 
Well if it was for her better and I wasn't able to take care properly , I would let her go and live happily, I would be happy if she is fine


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope your birdie gets along ok in your uncles coop. agree with kiddy, am not sure I could give her up. If she sees you as her flock, she may not be happy with other pigeons. Please let us know how she does.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Talked with my uncle and he said he would gladly take her but suggested that she might not be accepted by the other fantail pigeons and they might attack her as she could be seen as an intruder. For now we decided to keep her and i will buy her a cage as it's starting to become a bit of a burden to keep cleaning the balcony after her. 

Any suggestions on what kind of cage wouls be fine for an appartment pigeon?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We got two large flight cages off the internet...about five feet long. They do require assembly but have sliding trays and are easy to clean. If you are going to keep the bird outdoors, please make sure any cage is predator proof.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

She will be kept indoors or on the balcony, besides we live in the middle of the city at the 2nd floor in an apartment build so she's safer than me crossing the street haha 

How tall should a cage be? Would something like this be ok: cage L66 W45 H84 centimeters


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

MrHollow said:


> Talked with my uncle and he said he would gladly take her but suggested that she might not be accepted by the other fantail pigeons and they might attack her as she could be seen as an intruder. For now we decided to keep her and i will buy her a cage as it's starting to become a bit of a burden to keep cleaning the balcony after her.
> 
> Any suggestions on what kind of cage wouls be fine for an appartment pigeon?



I don't understand your uncles thinking that she may not be accepted. Anyone with flocks and lofts does add new birds, and they do this all the time. When you first add a new bird, you just go slow and introduce them while you are there to make sure that everything goes well. I introduce slowly and have never had a problem. If your bird is a male, then a couple of the other males may challenge him at first, but they will get used to him in no time. Maybe your uncle just doesn't want a new bird? A birds life in a cage, all alone, isn't really very fullfilling. She would still need time out of cage each day for exercise. How large is your uncles loft, and how many birds does he have.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Haven't seen the loft yet but from what i know he has a few pairs. If you say that they will accept it afterwards i'm sure you're all more than qualified so we can give it a try. Pretty sure our baby is a female judging by her looks and size.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he has all pairs, then adding a single bird can be a problem. Didn't know he had all pairs. Not because they will not accept your bird, but your bird could cause problems for the pairs. If a male, then he may try to break up other pairs, and try to take their box. If a female, that can happen also, but not as often. Females are lots quieter and easier to introduce. But then the males could be after her. Adding a female is easier though. If he can figure out what gender it is for sure, then he could get it a mate, then they would all be pairs and should have no problems.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We'll see how that will work, i'll have my dad talk to him and see if he really wants to take her and we'll give her some time to see how she behaves in the coop.

In other words she seems to be shedding a lot of feathers and seems to be plucking and scratching herself quite a lot but we checked her and she doesn't seem to have any bird fleas or anything and she looks fine underneath her feathers.

Look at my pretty lady: https://goo.gl/photos/jgYFjgejas1EDBjN6


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Beautiful bird! You did a great job helping her. She reminds me of the pigeon we loved and cared for for eight years who we miss terribly. Hope she will get along in the aviary. Your proposed cage is a little small but would work if you let her out a lot for exercise.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

MrHollow said:


> She will be kept indoors or on the balcony, besides we live in the middle of the city at the 2nd floor in an apartment build so she's safer than me crossing the street haha
> 
> How tall should a cage be? Would something like this be ok: cage L66 W45 H84 centimeters


Something less high and more long is best. They like a shelf to perch on, and by the time you put a shelf in there, there really isn't much room left. They need room to spread their wings and flap them. Even if time out of cage, she would be in there a good amount of time. If the cage is too small, she will break the wing feathers in trying to flap her wings.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

in addition to the cage, you might look at avian fashions.com they have bird suits that are made for pigeons. I have 2. both my birds are completely different in size, and they work with you to make sure you get the best fit. if they don't, return it and they send you a new one. they are like $15. they even have a sort of leash. what I like about them is they advertise as a sort of diaper, which they really are. no mess, at all. I am new to this pigeon thing. my kids were rescues like your, just hatchlings. they live in my house as well, and they love it when they can fly about with their suit on.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

wiggles and puddles said:


> in addition to the cage, you might look at avian fashions.com they have bird suits that are made for pigeons. I have 2. both my birds are completely different in size, and they work with you to make sure you get the best fit. if they don't, return it and they send you a new one. they are like $15. they even have a sort of leash. what I like about them is they advertise as a sort of diaper, which they really are. no mess, at all. I am new to this pigeon thing. my kids were rescues like your, just hatchlings. they live in my house as well, and they love it when they can fly about with their suit on.


Hahha that's pretty nifty and cute, unfortunately I leave in Europe so that's a bit harder to get my hands on something like that. I'd like to let her fly without any costumes and stuff like that. Can easily clean after her but she poops like a little poopmachine and if she drinks a lot of water it's really watery


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When I had a house pigeon, I just covered the chairs and things like that in the room where he was, with large coordinating bath towels that I could wash when needed. It worked.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

How much did he live for? P00fy still can't fly properly yet she's still trying, been more than 2 months since she was born, shouldn't she have been able to do it by now?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, she should be able to fly pretty good by now. Does she get much time to practice?
How well does she do?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Yes, she should be able to fly pretty good by now. Does she get much time to practice?
> How well does she do?


She's free all day and night on the balcony and we spend time with her after we come home from work and until we go to sleep in the house.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Here's a video from 40minutes ago being all spoiled like a little cow that she is: https://goo.gl/photos/MsBzhJtwcztr7oJEA

Also i'm starting to get worried about her flying skills, i don't see a lot of improvement and she seems really scared of taking off. You can see her really trying to get that oomph to want to take off and fly to me when i call her but there's just something stopping her. I don't know what to do 

ps: does anyone else's pigeon shivers when you touch it or when you take it on your hand? mine has a tendency to do this ever since she was little.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you have a little female there, and she likes it when you rub her. So pretty. 
Some pigeons will shake when scared, some for excitement, like if she thinks you are going to feed her. For different reasons.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Very pretty and so sweet. She is so bonded with you guys, I can see why you spoil her! I loved the video of her trying to fly. I would love to see another. Good thing Poofy has you guys since it looks like she is flying challenged. Beautiful coloring too!


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> I think you have a little female there, and she likes it when you rub her. So pretty.
> Some pigeons will shake when scared, some for excitement, like if she thinks you are going to feed her. For different reasons.


that is how my little guy got the name wiggles. when he was little he would shake for food, and to this day, he will wiggle when he gets excited for attention, food, love, ect.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

MrHollow said:


> Here's a video from 40minutes ago being all spoiled like a little cow that she is: https://goo.gl/photos/MsBzhJtwcztr7oJEA
> 
> Also i'm starting to get worried about her flying skills, i don't see a lot of improvement and she seems really scared of taking off. You can see her really trying to get that oomph to want to take off and fly to me when i call her but there's just something stopping her. I don't know what to do
> 
> ps: does anyone else's pigeon shivers when you touch it or when you take it on your hand? mine has a tendency to do this ever since she was little.


my 2 can't fly very well either. perfectly healthy, as I would bet Poofy is as well. my vet had the theory that because mine at least were so young when we had to step in that they never learned how, then never really wanted to either. they can jump high, but can't get that "oomph" like Poofy. I guess our 3 are kindred spirits.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

MrHollow said:


> How much did he live for? P00fy still can't fly properly yet she's still trying, been more than 2 months since she was born, shouldn't she have been able to do it by now?


Was thinking, where you leave her in balcony during the day, does she get any flat perches there like any ledge at some height? So she could try flying to them? Because they prefer high points to roost and perch on flat surfaces.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

unfortunately no. I'll try to think of something.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very good suggestion from Kiddy. They always want to be up higher. Maybe she just needs a reason to fly. No reason why she shouldn't be able to, just needs an incentive. Even a wooden box turned up on its side would make a perch. Put some sort of treat up there, and show her so that she knows it's up there. Don't make things too easy for her. Make her have to fly to get them. That is what the parents do. They feed the baby. If the baby wants to beg from them, then it has to chase after them. Try that with her.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, thought that I never see them flying floor to floor, they will simply walk there but when they have to go a bit up which they usually like to be, they need something to land upon. Worth trying what Jay suggested.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Will certainly try it. for now i've put up a pole about chest high for her to get on and i've put here there twice, and after a while she just came down flying.

Also we have the balcony door mostly open so she loves to sit on the door frame and do her thing. Either that or walk around the house then calls us.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hope it works. If pole is round, I would try something with a flat surface.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

It is round and thin sort of like something where you put your clothes to dry, i'll put a picture up tomorrow.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I have curtain rods nearly one foot below the ceiling and they initially perched on them because they were adults and knew very well how to land and perch but seemed they didn't feel comfortable there and then started to perch on ceiling fan's wings because they were flat and that has been their favorite roosting spot or a window ledge. So try something flat, it will be easy for her to land upon that. Will surely look forward to see pics of what you provide her.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with kiddy, they definitely prefer flat perches.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, a flat surface like a shelf works well. Pigeons don't generally like to perch on things, as much as stand on a shelf. That is what they do naturally.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

This is her place where she sleeps, eats and drinks + rest during the day when we're not home.

https://goo.gl/photos/Dx7dqDdwNa9BzNzS7

In the other picture it's my GF's leg where she just sat down and slept for a while. She does this very rarely and must've been extremely peaceful at the time.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Beautiful bird!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What is the box for that she is perched On? Everything is on the floor. No incentive to fly anywhere.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Box has a piece of cloth for her to sleep on. She always wants to fly to us, me especially when she sees us but she doesn't have that oomph or gut to do it all the time. 

Today she saw me and flew directly into a plant that was near me and i couldn't even catch her as she did it extremely fast. Dunno how else to get her to convince her to go places. We normally hold her on the hand and move up and down as she flaps her wings and let her fly down from above head height. Sometimes she flaps fast, otherwise she's lazy and just wants to get down faster.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

During the day she gets nowhere to fly to, during the night she gets a reason to fly i. e you so she comes to you and because she isn't flying well, she sometimes land somewhere else. She isn't getting room to practice and she is of two months now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Put the feed up higher, and a perching shelf for her. Take things up off the floor. Give her a reason to have to fly more.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

she is such a pretty little bird. she has bonded so strongly with her new family. so trusting to sleep on your girlfriend's leg like that.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

At the moment we're on vacation but p00fy is staying with my parents and my father is staying with her during the evening. She's really calm and apart from the mess she makes, poop and thrown food, she's a real pretty bird.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Enjoy your vaca!


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## Little_bird (Aug 28, 2015)

Hi Cwebster - I was wondering where you purchased your flight cages? Thanks!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We got them online from bird cages for less and assembled them.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Hello everyone,

we're back home and we saw p00fy who was with my parents until now. Out of curiosity how do you know if they cannot see with one eye?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Welcome back! Hope you enjoyed your vacations. 
It is how they respond to your gestures when you try it from both of their sides. It is how they try rotate their necks to see the things because they will use only one eye. Sometimes they face problems in flying as well. Their way to look at the things will tell you. Did you notice anything like that with her?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Yes, she looks like 180 degrees with her head and from different angles and doesn't seem to have much response from one eye compared to the other one.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Could be one eyed then or having difficult vision from one eye.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

How can we check and fix it? Could something like this be permanent?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am a bit surprised that you never noticed it before? Hope you are no longer giving her metronidazole and dosed as per the advice?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I stopped after 8 days as i remember reading that i shouldn't exceed 10 days or something. I've noticed the eye problem since i mentioned that she kept it closed sometimes but eventually stopped doing it. I did notice she was looking a bit weird with the head but thought that's how they normally do it  hope it's not too late.

We've checked bringing our finger/palm close to her eye so i think she does see something since she does seem to be a bit bother by the fact that it's close and moves her head away from it but it's not like on the other eye where she moves it as soon as i get close with my hand to her eye.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

It doesn't harm even if given for some more days like 15 days or so but the right dose. Well that's not a case in your bird because as I remember she started closing her eye before administering metro and Metro too isn't overdosed. 
May be you could get her eye tested at some avian vet clinic if you have it there. May be some eye drops could help her, I am not sure though. Let's see what others say.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Wouldn't more Metro raise his Trichomoniasis levels too much?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

MrHollow said:


> Wouldn't more Metro raise his Trichomoniasis levels too much?


Why would it do that? Metro knocks it down. Anyway, don't see why you would have to start it up again.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

The treatment is over and she has no canker symptoms. Metro doesn't increase the trichomonads level, it knocks it down as Jay told. Trichomonads level shouldn't increase, it should be there at a required level.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

So i think my bird is reaching maturity since she is getting mood swings. She plucks and scratches herself a lot nowadays (and gets angry, makes a sound and plucks herself harder) and now if you try to scratch her in some places she just gets annoyed and starts an angry cooing and tries to defend and kinda bite you. Saying kinda cause it doesn't hurt but she is annoyed by something. She's done this before if you woke her up from sleep and picked her up to relocate. 

Is this normal behaviour? 
Also when i played her the sounds of eatting baby pigeons, the one i put her to get to eat, she started to make some noises which i cannot describe, something a mother would make when her children are calling her. 

While typing this she just did this: https://goo.gl/photos/8F8pP7K7umbDmDbP9


Also what eye drops should we get for her? Pretty sure she doesn't see much with one eye or at all. The vet did say when we first brought her when she was a baby that she had something which she is almost healed from, but this disease nromally leaves some defects in almost all of the cases. So my thought is that loss of eyesight in one of the eyes is the effect of this, perhaps even the fact that she cannot fly much or at all which seriously worries me.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes the change in behavior is normal, they show changes when they start cooing. Sometimes they don't like to be handled at all though they will fly to you when they want, so all normal.
About eye drops a vet can suggest, even I doubt an eye drop can work in such case but an avian vet can guide better. May be someone more experienced could guide you on this here. 
I have seen an one eyed pigeon here who faced problems in flying, he tried to fly but wasn't well at it so may be your bird is facing problems in flying due to the same reason but she should learn gradually, just give her room and perches, she should attempt.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Her behavior changes sound normal to me. Over time the biting will hopefully decrease if you let her put her beak between your fingers. That's what our Squeaker does. Pigeons are weird. Our Squeaker loves to eat and drink out of my hand, then will stand on one foot and close her eye. Vet said she is perfectly healthy. Would love to play her the sounds you played your bird to see how she reacts...where did you find them?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

@cwebster https://youtu.be/AkesM5zntuA

Is the plucking normal? Think she is just changing her baby feathers.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Will play the video for Squeaker!  
The plucking may be normal molting, hard to say. Our Squeaker is starting to molt and seems quite puzzled about why it is happening. She needs a lot of reassurance so let her put her beak between my fingers.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I tried that with p00fy today and she got a bit angry and started the angry cooing again and tried to peck me so i just stopped. Think the same is happening with her as with your Squeaker since she's makes a sound like she's annoyed and pecks herself.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Usually at four months they do their first molt in term of all the flight wings and feathers. But much before this molt at around 3-3.5 months, they start plucking their small feathers, seems they feel itchy. So it should be normal for her if she doesn't have mites, lice or flies.


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## Gautham (Sep 21, 2015)

can anybody please help me to communicate with other members here.. Iam new to here and confused s bit..í*½í¸


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Gautham said:


> can anybody please help me to communicate with other members here.. Iam new to here and confused s bit..í*½í¸ž


I have messaged you on how to post a new thread. Pls post your thread so people can help you with your query.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Yeah so basically this is her behavior when she's upset... https://goo.gl/photos/McZq4ngGwuTkvRtu8 (the TV was a bit loud so sorry about that)

It's most of the times random or if you bug her sometimes from petting or waking her up from sleep to put her in her box to sleep.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

She is very adorable  
She probably wants you to hold her and pet. They do this way when they need attention.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

There seems to be something wrong with p00fy, first it happened or at least we saw it do it once but now it seems to happen more and more which is she starts spinning around until she gets dizzy.

This probably happens because of the eye issue but she looks around in the most dubious ways possible. 

Should we get her to a vet in relation to the spinning? Could the eyesight problem be a part of this? I just feel sorry for the little girl


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Could you post a video of the spinning? Hope she is ok. You have taken such good care of her, hope she is well.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Agree with cwebster, a video will help.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Will try to catch her doing it


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

https://goo.gl/photos/W1Y6eiMWeGZ9f7tVA

Here we go...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If she doesn't show any other signs of sickness like abnormal poop or something else, it could be because of one eye, seems like she is trying to look around for something may be you. I think when she saw your hand and stepped on, she was settled. Not sure though. 
Do you notice any other abnormal symptoms?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

she does seem to settle when we're with her or near her. She does that to look around i guess but still it's a bit unsettling even when she uses her head to look in places she's like 180degrees sometimes.

Also her poop is sometimes watery (after drinking) then a few hours later it's perfectly fine, then semi.. it depends.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

They do pass watery droppings due to excess of water intake during hot weather. So the best time to check droppings is morning. 
Thus far it seems like she is doing it because of eye problem, poor bird. Don't know if she is seeing alright from another eye or having some blurred vision from that too.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

P00fy is a lovely bird! Not sure why she is spinning around but she does stabilize when she gets on your hand, as kiddy pointed out. Also she seemed to be able to stop and groom when she wanted. Suspect as others have mentioned that it may be vision related. Great bird! Would monitor her carefully and see if it continues.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

The spinning continues especially if she knows we're around or we just put her back on the balcony.

https://goo.gl/photos/aHuH89Js4pk1dQmN8

In the link above there are 2 videos:
1) She's upset at the couch for some reason and you can see her being angry and trying to bite it like crazy
2) She was put there 5 minutes before the video and i wanted to show you her exact behavior and I'm a little worried because of her attachment to us and lack of eyesight in her right eye she keeps spinning looking for us. 

Normally if we take her and socialize with her she just listens or grooms herself, unfortunately we can't stay with her 24/7 and we will try to integrate her with 2-3 pigeons at my fiancee's aunt who lives in a house and not an apartment so she would eventually have the company of other pigeons and hopefully more room to move around.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She should be with other pigeons if possible. Not a pair though, or she would be a 5th wheel.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

We're a little worried about p00fy. lately she started keeping her healty eye closed at some time and she stays puffed up. She did this on Friday so we kept her in the house at warmth. Yesterday and this morning she was perfectly fine and 20mins ago she started to fluff up and keep her eye closed. Now she is just sleeping on my fiancée's hand and resting. 

We've been reading about ornythosis caused by clamydia which give this eye closed simpthoms however it doesn't seem to be it as she seems just fine otherwise. 

Any ideeas? We can't have her completely lose her sight as that means her life will be almost impossible. It's hard enough she doesn't see with one eye and can't fly...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Any sickness can cause her to puff up and sit with her eyes closed. Most common illness would be canker. How is she eating and drinking? I would keep her inside and warm. On a heating pad set on LOW with a layer of towel over it.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

She ate all right about 6-7 hours ago and she drank water 1hour ago... Don't have a heating pad unfortunately but we'll think of something.

We can provide her metro if needed as long as it won't cause any harm than good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have you checked way down her throat with a flashlight? Although you can't always see canker. Not even sure that is what it is, but it is common is all. It won't hurt her to treat, but I'd wait to see if any other symptoms first. What do her droppings look like? Is she drinking more than what is normal for her? How much is she eating daily? I would make note of how much she's eating and drinking.
How old is she now?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree she could use some warmth especially if she is sick. We used an oil-filled heater with Phoebe and kept the room at 85 to 90 degrees.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Have you checked way down her throat with a flashlight? Although you can't always see canker. Not even sure that is what it is, but it is common is all. It won't hurt her to treat, but I'd wait to see if any other symptoms first. What do her droppings look like? Is she drinking more than what is normal for her? How much is she eating daily? I would make note of how much she's eating and drinking.
> How old is she now?


Haven't used a flashlight, my fiancee opened her beak and looked down but couldn't see any signs. Her poop seems fine as in greenish with the white thingy but every time after she drinks water she makes it soupy and it's been like this ever since we had her. She eats enough food and her crop is always semi-full after she finishes eating but what worries me is that she came with this all of the sudden today. She was fine then after a few hours she was all puffed up and sleeps all the time :-s


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Where is she kept?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Right now, on our bed with a heated gel bag (the ones that you can thaw or heat and put on where you're having a pain), so basically in the house in a 70F+ temperature.

What i don't and can't understand is how can a pigeon get sick while it leaves in a closed environment with water changed daily, food and open space.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I meant where is she normally kept? When she isn't sick.
If it is cold outside and she is put outside, say for exercise, from a warm environment, then that isn't good.

As far as getting sick, some illness is caused by stress, or lack of minerals and vitamins, or sunshine. Some things they carry the bacteria for, but in a balance that doesn't cause illness. When something throws that balance off, then it can multiply and cause sickness.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Normally on the balcony outside which is closed off but it's about 60F because temperatures dropped in the last weeks. 

I was reading something about probiotics, any ideea how they work or what we can give her? Heard it's good for them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Probiotics are good. They keep good gut bacteria in the birds digestive system to help them ward off the bad bacteria. There are so many different ones available. Pigeon supplies sell them, and human grade can be used that you can buy at health food places, or other places as well. When we give them antibiotics even, they kill bad bacteria, bur also kill the good bacteria the bird needs, so they should always receive probiotics after they have been medicated, and in times of stress. Even as a routine once or twice a week wouldn't hurt.

Here is just one article on probiotics.
http://beautyofbirds.com/images/HolisticParrot.pdf


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

So sorry to know the bird isn't feeling well. I think you have treated her for canker? How long it has been after treatment?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

@Jay3 I'll take a look at the document. Her health seems SLIGHTLY improved but here is a picture of her droppings from this morning: https://goo.gl/photos/PsnyBBBh3sZeoi7f7
@Kiddy It's been about 1month and 3-4 weeks since we treated her for canker which was done for about 8 days.

I'll take her to the vet this evening if her health doesn't improve by the time i get home from work.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope p00fy improves! Lovely bird, a real sweetie.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Pigeons continue to baffle me... came home from work to grab lunch and check her out, my dad was already home and brought p00fy out on the balcony, it's as if nothing happened to her... She was happy and moving around flapping her wings :|

She closes her eye rarely mostly when she tries to nap but other than that she seems perfectly healthy. Her poop is green and white but hard this time... I just don't get it :/


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Even I don't get it 
Convey my hi to Poofy and say stop worrying us 
Anyways, I am glad she is good. Thank God.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am very glad to hear P00fy is doing better!


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Thanks for the kind words everyone, however i have another question:

How can you tell if a pigeon is blind or not? I'm seriously worried that p00fy cannot see anymore :| as she doesn't seem to notice any hand we put next to her eyes or react in any way and in the last few days she seems to be walking as if she's crouching and moving around more slowly than before. She still does the usual grooming and tries to fly from our hands or from the floor by flapping her wings and such but i'm seriously worried that she has gone BLIND.

Anything we can do to test her sight or any eye drops that could help or improve her sight? Any disease that could cause her to lose eyesight?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I really think, a visit to avian vet is required to get her tested.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

kiddy said:


> I really think, a visit to avian vet is required to get her tested.


Planning to take her tomorrow or the day after.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am anxious to hear what the vet says. Hope Poofy is ok! have had blind guinea pigs and blind frogs who do fine by the way.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

So p00fy went to the vet yesterday and he was kind of reserved about her health but from what i understand the fact that she closes her eye and she had issues with them is due to the fact that she has breathing (sinus) problems. He gave her a shot (didn't ask what it was because a dog was being prepared to go into surgery and the vet took off a few minutes before going in to check on p00fy) after inspecting her and her feather & wings and we're going again on saturday morning for another checkup.

He did ask if she was vaccinated in any way and i told him about her previous visit to him. I'll update you guys as I have more info. For now we're taking care of poor little p00fy and socializing as much as we can but we can see that she's not the happiest or healthiest bird in her current condition.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he didn't do any tests, then he can't know what is causing the problem. So not knowing what was causing the problem, he gave her a shot? You really need to find an avian vet. Regular vets just don't know enough about birds. And pigeons are even a bit different from many other birds. Could be bacteria, or could be canker causing the problem. A good vet would have taken swabs or something to check things out. Different things require different meds, and you can't tell just by looking at the bird.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

He's a pigeon breeder and an avian vet amongst other but he did check her breathing and beak it's not like he threw a shot out of nowhere. He noticed something strange in her breathing which lead to this conclusion. I'll see what he says after he checks her on Saturday. 

I did go to the vet's cabinet where another doctor was available and she said that she's not qualified to give p00fy anything but the doc that i took her to during the evening also breeds pigeons and has experience with treating them as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How would he know what is causing the breathing problems without any tests?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> How would he know what is causing the breathing problems without any tests?


What kind of tests are you referring to?

I'll give out more information on Saturday and clearly i wouldn't be letting anyone treat p00fy if I didn't trust that they know what they're doing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She could have a respiratory infection, but canker can cause similar symptoms. Without testing, one wouldn't know what was causing symptoms. Did he take swab samples or bloodwork, or even check droppings? Cultures?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Yeah so basically today we took her for another visit to the vet and he just confirmed what he told us the first time we had her checked when she was a baby. Because of a paramyxovirus which attacked her nervous system (when we found her she was recovering from it) and caused her to go blind in one eye also took it's toll on her other eye.

Now as we suspected she cannot see and because the problem is on a nervous system level the vet said that unfortunately there's nothing that he can do. The shot that he gave her last time was just vitamin B1 and he recommended we give her vitamin B1 as well but either directly in her beak or in her water.

Besides the fact that she cannot seem to see she's healthy and she acts just like before. He said that the reason why she walks with her head tilted forward as if she sniffs something on the ground and the fact that she keeps it a bit tilted to the said at some points is a side effect of the virus. All we can do for is care for her...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad Poofy is ok. Phoebe had a lot of mileage on her, after nearly losing her head and having a broken wing and internal problems. But disabled birds need love too and I'm so glad she is doing well with just a few minor disabilities.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Blind birds can do well as long as their cage is set up to accommodate them, and things aren't changed around.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thankfully she can see with one eye.

Here is a story of a blind pigeon :
http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/wordpress/?page_id=598


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Kiddy, thank you for posting the story of Pew the blind pigeon! I have had blind guinea pigs and blind frogs and frogs who see only out of one eye, and they have had happy lives.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> Thankfully she can see with one eye.
> 
> ]



Kiddy, he said that the other eye was affected and that as they suspected she cannot see.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Kiddy, he said that the other eye was affected and that as they suspected she cannot see.


From the videos it showed she could still see and I think another eye is affected but she can see, not completely blind, don't know if she is!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh yes, remember now. They said she is not responding to gestures probably. Sorry. 
Actually I can't see previous pages. Internet connection has been damn slow, even not working most of the times since yesterday. Taking several attempts to post. 
Sorry for the mistake. 

Mr. Hollow, If the things like feed and water are placed at the same position, she will easily pick up that in mind. John_D has got probably 3 blind pigeons and they are doing well.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the kind words. It's really hard to understand if she sees or not either that or she has a sixth sense because when you get your finger close to her eyes she doesn't react, HOWEVER there are time when i just go close to the balcony door which is glass, without making any noise and she looks towards me and then after a few seconds she comes to me...

Seriously strange and maybe it's just coincidence but still...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I think in day light, she can see even if a little...


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm pretty sure she sees something because even though she walks with her head really close to the ground she doesn't bump into things and she's such a sweet little birdie even though she gets upset really fast and tries to bite us. 

I started to let her stay in the house during the night because it's starting to get cold during and i let her out on the balcony during the day as it's still acceptable. I know that pigeons are used to really cold/hot environments but because we keep her indoors and play with her during the evening i can't just put her out on the balcony and possible cause her health problems due to the differences in temperature.

We give her during the evening a daily dose of 0.3-0.4ml of vitamin B1 with a small syringe directly in her beak. It's been a few days and she seems extremely healthy and active all the time (always wants to fly around even though she won't flap her wings hard enough).


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear Poofy seems healthy and active. The biting is actually a good sign as pigeons do that for a while until they are really sure of who and what they are dealing with. Suspect the biting will decrease. Glad she is getting around well. Suspect she can see at least a little. You have been doing such a wonderful job with her!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to know she can still see and is active. 
Just be very careful while giving any liquids in her beak with syringe or dropper as they aspirate easily which is fatal.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

It's been some time since the last update on our p00fy. So basically she went through almost 2 weeks of 0.3-0.4ml a day vitamin B1 + the regular vitamins in her water. Last Saturday we took her to her to the new home, at my fiancee's aunt and i took some pictures of her trying to fit in.

https://goo.gl/photos/qwA9h4UYcRGEHHTu9

We checked on her on Monday and it seems she adjusted quite fine, talking with the other pigeons eating and drinking on her own. She's kept in a really small aviary at the moment but she's allowed out every few days for exercise with the other birds. They will get a big aviary (hopefully soon) where they can move to their hearts content.

We're going to see her on Saturday, we miss her a lot


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad p00fy is fitting in at her new home. You did a wonderful job getting her all fixed up. Lucky bird!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to know she isn't alone anymore . Pls post pics of her when you visit her. I know you will miss p00fy but thanks a ton for this love and care for her. She will miss you too.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Forgot to mention, those are really nice pics. She seems to be enjoying new home and new friends. I am sure you will be fine when she is fine.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Pictures from yesterday: https://goo.gl/photos/vJUJ36MANnX2txtw6

She's doing great, she gets out daily and she looks brilliant.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Very cute. She hasn't forgotten you people with her new friends even. I can see how comfortable she is with you people. An adorable sweet bird. Thanks for the pics.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

Didn't post anything from her last visit but we went again today, look at this beauty: https://goo.gl/photos/PpQRcaRLK5oCM4oMA


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What a lovely bird!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, a very pretty little thing.


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

She's a little beauty and grew up very well, maybe a bit plumpy but she seems fine. She was a bit aggressive when we went in and touched her but i assume it's because of all the commotion that was in there.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Very cute. Seems to be doing very well. What about her eyes? Does it seem she can see well as you said she got aggressive seeing you people in there when you toughed her?


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## MrHollow (Aug 5, 2015)

I am pretty sure she cannot see much or she can see stuff if it is really close to her. When she started biting it was after i touched her on the back. All in all she ia doing fine and she is very healthy. She normally gets out daily to stretch her wings and geta to be around other birds and talk to pigeons ao i would say she ia better than staying in my apartment.


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