# Whats wrong with my precious pigeon?



## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi I have a pigeon, which I found in September last year. It was a stormy day and it fell from its nest. Its a male pink necked green pigeon. Initially I fed it fruits (papaya) and switch to bird seeds, which it seems to prefer. It is usually singing very often, but since yesterday, it became really quiet, stands all fluff up on his perch and keeps sleeping. I assumed he is sleeping as both eyes are closed. He is eating the seeds and drinking water. However each time after he drinks, he will open his beak wide and water will squirt out, he seems to be in some form of discomfort. He will also make random squarking noises, which he usually does not do so. I doubt its cold as the weather in Singapore right now is very humid and hot. I hope my bird is fine.

Was sitting next to it for 2 hours, and to my surprise I saw him eating his own poop! Is that normal or is my little churpie sick? I will attach pictures of him soon I just need advise on what to do, as this is the first feathered friend I ever had.

Churpie when he was found:










Churpie when he was healthy:










Churpie since yesterday:










Churpie feasting on seeds a moment ago:


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Beautiful bird! I wish I could help you....but I don't know anything about that breed. Keep checking back, someone from your area that knows about this breed should be along soon.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Thats an amazing looking pigeon. looks like it has worms but I could be wrong. have you ever wormed him? 

if its not worms it may need some antibiotics.

Miss-sassypants is in Singapore


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Same as Waynette, I don't know anything about that breed of pigeon, but he definitely isn't feeling well. Are you able to take him to a vet? What do his droppings look like. Is his crop emptying alright? Have you looked way down his throat to see if there are any nodules down there? Is he drinking excessively? If his crop is full of water, I'm thinking canker or Candida.
If he is fluffing up, then he is cold. Even us, when we are sick feel cold even in a warm room. It would be good if you could get him in a box or cage where you could put a heating pad under him and cover it with a layer of towel. Leave an area where he can get off if he wants to.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks guys for your replies. Nope, I found this bird in the wild and have not wormed it yet. He seems to be getting better, no longer fluffing up and moving around more. I will update again tomorrow morning. His droppings are wet, and kinda bubbly, and yes the crop is emptying alright. Could not see down his throat as he is quite aggressive. Able to catch a glimpse of some seeds sticking to the top of the inside of his beak tho. I have placed a hot water bag near the cage and covered it with a towel. Hope he is fine now!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

How long after you switched from fruit to seed did he get sick? And are you sure those are seeds stuck in his beak?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

This bird should of been released by a educated rehabber.. 

pink neck green pigeons eat as follows:
"Pink-necked Green Pigeons eat mainly fruits. 

Figs are their favourite, but they also eat palm fruit and berries, and nibble on buds. In Sungei Buloh, their favourite food include the fruit of the Macaranga, Cherry Tree (Muntingia calabura), small banyan figs (Ficus benjamina), and Singapore Rhododendron (Melastoma malabathricum)." There is more information here.

http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/birds/Treron_vernans.htm


This poor bird needs to be handed over to someone who can rehab and return this beautiful creature back to the wild where he belongs. The cage looks too small to me and boring.. poor thing.


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## Siobhan (Dec 21, 2010)

The general rule is warmth and quiet when a bird isn't feeling well. You might hang something over the back and sides of his cage to make him feel more secure and prevent drafts. If you can spend extra time with him, that will help, too. Why don't you try giving him his favorite food, since he's eating, and if you know an avian vet nearby, call and ask their advice. He's gorgeous!


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> This bird should of been released by a educated rehabber..
> 
> pink neck green pigeons eat as follows:
> "Pink-necked Green Pigeons eat mainly fruits.
> ...


I do want to release him but I'm unsure about his survival afterwards. Hmm, I do not know where to find a experienced rehabber in my area... I will look for a larger cage meanwhile. It was big enough when he was little, not now tho, thanks for your advice.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

almondman said:


> How long after you switched from fruit to seed did he get sick? And are you sure those are seeds stuck in his beak?


Yea its seeds that are stuck. But the seeds disappeared after he drank some water. He was on seeds since November last year and all was fine. I fed him some bananas and apples today but he seem to prefer the seeds still.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jremio said:


> I do want to release him but I'm unsure about his survival afterwards. Hmm, I do not know where to find a experienced rehabber in my area... I will look for a larger cage meanwhile. It was big enough when he was little, not now tho, thanks for your advice.



these folks may beable to guide you on what to do..or they can keep the bird in a more natural habitat and perhaps release. The bird should be given the foods listed..not allot of seeds..those are fatty and this bird may not have the digestion to handle it... here is the link below.

http://www.noahsarklodge.com/


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

jremio, you did a great job saving this beautiful bird. If you give it a choice of fruit and seed, also clean water every day I think you should keep it as a pet because it will probably die in the wild. The cage looks fine if you let it out to fly round the house but a bigger cage would suit. 

Get a Bird wormer at the pet shop. I guess the birds 300-400 grams you could have its droppings tested at the vet but thats expensive.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It really isn't all that expensive to have droppings tested. If you wanted to send them out for cultures, then it gets more expensive, but just having the vet check them is often very helpful.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you take him out of the cage every day to fly around and exercise? Keeping him in a cage like that all the time really wouldn't be fair to him. And yes, he does need a larger cage.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

This bird is not a pet..it is a wild bird that should of been rehabbed that way.. their true home is in tops of trees..only coming down for water..it eats fruits like figs..and berries. It needs to be with someone who can make that happen. If everyone wants one of these birds then they will go to the pet trade and you know what happens when that is an issue..if one does it then who will follow. not to mention it finding a mate .. think of how he lives in the wild.. up on tree canopies..eating fruit and finding a mate and going where he wants.. This wild bird may not know better but the life living in a cage vs the other of what his life should be should be thought of.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

I understand, will send him to the vet later as hes still sick. Will ask the vet for advice then.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

jremio, if you love the bird and enjoy keeping it as a pet then good luck and I hope it lives a long and happy life. Keep trying to make it eat fruits like they would eat in the wild and get a bigger cage when you can. Its an amazing looking pigeon, I wish I had one.

spirit wings,
No offence but its a pet. Its been living with humans for most of its life and probably wouldn't survive in the wild. Sounds like you did your homework -obviously in the wild these birds eat fruit and berrys, they find a mate and swing from branch to branch singing sweet songs to eachother just like a disney story but lifes not always like that. people keep allsorts of animals as pets and often they live a longer, happier life than they would otherwise.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm bringing it to the vet now. What is the average lifespan of a pigeon?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jremio said:


> I'm bringing it to the vet now. What is the average lifespan of a pigeon?


I don't know about that breed but pigeons in general can live up to 20 years.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

I was given an antibiotic with the label doxyvet to add to his water. I shall see how it goes.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Doxyvet is good for allsorts of things. I hope it gets better


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## DeeDee's Mom (Dec 17, 2011)

He's a really beautiful bird. I certainly hope you find out what's wrong with him and he's soon healthy again. Please give us updates.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Its so beautiful! We have lots of fruit doves here in Australia too and this one looks like a close cousin of our emerald dove, and a more distant cousin of the rose crowned fruit dove. I hope to adopt some of these one day from wildlife rehabbers as they are very friendly & bold in captivity and so beautiful too.

They can definitely be kept in captivity & they are hardly, but seed isn't enough for them- they eat berries and fruit, and they love figs & wild tobacco. You really do have to be on top of their need for fruit and berries if you want to keep them healthy in the long run. I visit a wildlife park regularly that keeps about a dozen of them, and they offer common human fruits that you could get from a supermarket-sorry I don't know which ones!. I'll see if I can find out for you. 

If I were you, I'd look for Malaysian wildlife rehab groups and just ring them up for some advice. There might be a zoo or two who could tell you want to feed and what are the common ailments. They are a lot harder to keep in captivity than seed eating pigeons (because of their diet) but it can be done.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Sure, I will update if his condition improves. I have removed all seeds and replaced them with tiny diced apples and some bird feed recommended by my local pet shop upon looking his species. Am worried as both his eyes appear watery now.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

How is his poop? you said they were bubbly. Are they normal now? If not it could be a bacterial infection.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

hi his poop became normal after 2 days of doxyvet treatment. He sang a bit today, which made me really happy. I hope he recovers fast.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Jremio - How is everything? Do you need my help? I could take a look at him if you'd like.

I'm from Singapore and have some experience with pigeons - though I have never seen the type of pigeon in your pic! Where in Singapore did you find him??

If you need supplies, let me know. I have enough pigeon stuff to last a lifetime!


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi! Thank you for your offer, it would be great if you can check if my pigeon is doing fine, which location would be convenient? I found him in the SAF Clementi Camp during my National Service, lying helplessly under a tree when I was ordering people to rake leafs.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

I noticed a slight reddish color in his stools, and he seemed to have lost a bit of weight. Both eyes are watery and he looks really sad. I need help here.... Poop is greenish with a little bit of reddish tinge to it. He drank the medicated water with doxyvet, but does not seem to be improving, I suspect worms now... Any advice?


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Updating with some pictures,

His stools as of this morning, noticed a reddish tinge in the middle of the poop:










Watery eyes:










Sitting most of the time fluffed.




















Thanks for all the advice.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Hmm... he looks very different from our usual pigeon. Best to get him professionally checked. What did your vet say? 

There is an avian vet in Yishun. I've personally never been there but I am more than happy to accompany you if you'd like to take him there. Not sure the price range but we can always ask.

http://aavcsingapore.webs.com/

Thank you for caring for him. It's really kind of you to rescue him especially in the middle of NS!! He is a beautiful bird and if you'd like to keep him, it's best to provide as many greens as possible and he needs a lot of supervised flying time (in an enclosed garden, or the living room, or your bedroom). Those wings need to be stretched!

Let me know if you need help. I won't be able to diagnose medical issues but I can offer support and supplies! Keep us updated!


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Hmm... he looks very different from our usual pigeon. Best to get him professionally checked. What did your vet say?
> 
> There is an avian vet in Yishun. I've personally never been there but I am more than happy to accompany you if you'd like to take him there. Not sure the price range but we can always ask.
> 
> ...


Hi to be honest, I cannot afford visiting the vet numerous times. I was hoping to get a wormer for him. He still eats and drink very little. Occasionally, he will make rasping sounds and shake his head from left to right continuously. Is that a type of symptom?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

The raspy noise and watery eyes means he could have a respiratory infection. The meds should have helped (!?) Could the colored stools be fruit he has eaten?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Isn't there somewhere you can at least bring a dropping sample to get it checked. The med you are using in the water isn't very helpful if he isn't drinking enough. He isn't getting enough medicine. A tablet that you can give him daily would be better. That way you would know he is getting enough medicine.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

It's good you've switched him to fruit instead of seed, since that is his natural diet, but if he has been eating seed his entire life till now, suddenly switching him over at a time when he is sick and his appetite is off, may be too much of a stress. Why not offer both fruit and the stuff he's been eating initially to wean him off of the seed more gradually. You must make sure he's eating and hand feed him if he's not, or if he's not eating enough - a sick bird that doesn't get sustenance will go down very fast. 

The Doxyvet you were given is Doxycycline, which is a human antibiotic. But as Jay3 says, it's useless in the water because you have no way of dosing correctly. And you say he drinks very little, so he's definitely not getting the dose he needs. 
If you absolutely can't afford to see a vet, and cannot find a rehabber, could you possibly try to get Doxycycline from a doctor?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Jremio - can you explain more about the vet's diagnosis? For how long is the dosage? What will the meds do?

I suggest to finish the course of the meds given. Did the vet mentioned any follow up? Which vet did you go to?


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Jremio - can you explain more about the vet's diagnosis? For how long is the dosage? What will the meds do?
> 
> I suggest to finish the course of the meds given. Did the vet mentioned any follow up? Which vet did you go to?


Hi, to be honest, I did not bring him to the vet at first, I went to the bird shop nearby and asked the shop owner what can be done to help him. He sold me the doxyvet. However, I went to that Yishun vet you recommended today. Diagnosis was candida, the vet gave him a multi vitamin jab, some brown anti fungal med and some antibiotics (baytril). There was a lot of pus and gooey stuff on the underside of his upper beak, which the vet scraped off. It was very expensive!


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

He keeps vomiting the meds fed to him, what can I do?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Wow! That was some serious illness! Well done, at least you've done the best for the little bird.... and hopefully, he will continue to improve.

Did he have canker? The gooey stuff on his upper beak? I hope your bird is well now. Keep giving the right dosage of antibiotics as the Doctor prescribed. I am truly rooting for your bird's recovery!

Thank you for caring for him. I hope the damage on the wallet isn't too bad... money can always be earned back but the life and well-being of a loved one is totally worth it.

Once the course of antibiotics has finished, let me know. I have some pigeon probiotics that I can give you. If you need Vit B complex, I have that as well.

Do keep the updates coming... and more pictures of the brave little birdie too! Take care.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

jremio said:


> He keeps vomiting the meds fed to him, what can I do?


In what form were the meds given? Water or tablet?


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> In what form were the meds given? Water or tablet?


Liquid type. 

List of meds the vet prescribed:
Nystatin 
Metronidazole
Baytril 2:2


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Oh and I am looking for a bigger cage, if you do have a spare one, I would like to purchase it.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

How did he say to give the dosage? All at the same time?

Let me PM Jaye about this. He is brilliant in medicating advice!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

jremio said:


> Diagnosis was candida, the vet gave him a multi vitamin jab, some brown anti fungal med and some antibiotics (baytril). There was a lot of pus and gooey stuff on the underside of his upper beak, which the vet scraped off. It was very expensive!


I'm so sorry, I haven't had much time to follow this thread & i apologise for not having read every post. 

Candida is thrush and you would normally give Nystatin in a mild case (for 12 days plus), or fluconazole in very bad case. The difference is Nystatin eliminates candida on contact, so its only useful when its in the digestive system. Fluconazole attacks thrush everywhere in the system- the air sacs, everywhere. So its what you want sometimes. Antibiotics like Baytril inflame thrush and make it worse, so its tricky to stay on top of the thrush when you are giving antibiotics

What is the dose of Nystatin you were prescribed?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

jremio said:


> Oh and I am looking for a bigger cage, if you do have a spare one, I would like to purchase it.


My pigeon Krikky has free access to the house (he has his own 'room') so we don't have a cage for him. I don't have one to give you  How big a cage do you need? I saw some in Cash Converters (there's also cat transport cage, dog kennels that could also substitute as cages)

When you're at home, perhaps he can free fly in the room, and only return to the cage at night to sleep?

Another thing, could you keep the bird on heat? It's best for a bird to be resting on heat while he is recovering so that he uses his energy to recover instead of warming himself.

I know the weather here sucks like heat wave right now and it is absurd to think he might be cold, but birds do need the heat, especially on their crop or abdomen. That could speed up his recovery.

PS: Bella! Thank goodness you're here to help with meds!  Phew...


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Dosage as such:

Nystatin - 0.4ml, 2 x daily, for 10 days. (to be given 1-2 hours before the other meds)
Metronidazole - 0.45ml, 2x daily for 8 days.
Baytril 2:2 - 1 drop, 2x daily for 10 days.
Avian oral disinfectant mist 2x daily. (spray type)


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Oh and btw his weight is a mere 120grams, is this normal?


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

You should have got those meds in pill form, but you seem to have solutions instead and these come in different concentrations, so giving the dosages in ml of (basically) water doesn't mean anything. You need to know the concentration for each med!


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

jondove said:


> You should have got those meds in pill form, but you seem to have solutions instead and these come in different concentrations, so giving the dosages in ml of (basically) water doesn't mean anything. You need to know the concentration for each med!


for the dosage ill just do as the vet says for now, because the bottles have no indication of how much is the concentration.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

jremio said:


> He keeps vomiting the meds fed to him, what can I do?


I am dealing with a sick pigeon right now, and he couldn't keep anything down - food or medicine. I was advised by Jay3 to give a couple of drops of pepto bismol 10 minutes before giving food or medicine, and it has made a major life- saving difference for the bird. I don't know if you can get it over there - the brand name is Pepto Bismal, but the active ingredient is bismuth subsalicylate. It used for upset stomach relief and as an antidiarrheal in people.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Here is a thread you can do more research on about Candida and giving meds:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/my-pigeon-vomits-for-4-days-now-57306.html


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Here is a thread you can do more research on about Candida and giving meds:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/my-pigeon-vomits-for-4-days-now-57306.html


Thanks! I know how to prevent him from vomiting, after administering the medication, I will spend 15 mins to stroke him and keep him calm, after which he will go to sleep, which is what he needs!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I think at a certain point *we just have to trust that the vet Jremio went to knows his/her stuff*...so, quite honestly, I would NOT recommend starting to tweak (or second-guess) any dosages which have already been prescribed.

I think the vet DOES know his/her stuff because it is a good prescription. Baytril as a wide-net antibiotic, Metro to counter canker, and Nystat to take care of the candida/yeast.

I have to say I completely disagree about getting the meds in pills. If the Bird has *canker,* particularly if it is very established canker....you do *not* want to administer meds in solid pill form, you want to administer in liquid via oral syringe. 

So, again, IMHO the vet has made the right call....

Jremio...if your method to keep the medications down (prevent vomiting) seems to be working, then just keep doing that.

As noted, do not give ALL 3 meds at the same time, however. You can give the Baytril and Metro at the same time, but as the prescription says....spread it an hour or two between the Nystat.

Admittedly, not having read every word of the 4 pages of thread here.....it all sounds pretty good to me, the current med regimen and all.

...keep it up.


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

I can agree that sometimes it's better to administer a med in liquid form, but you can usually dissolve a pill in water and you know exactly what you have there. A medicine in liquid form can also be acceptable, as long as you know the concentration.

I don't want to sound like that person who always posts about not trusting vets, but I do want to know exactly what I pay for and if I don't get all the details about the meds I am given, I may not trust that vet so much in the future, even if they actually know their stuff.

Also, there are different dosages for every med, so I would want to know if they prescribed a lower dosage or a higher one, consequenty, among other things, how much should I worry if I overdose it by mistake, and so on...

It's another matter if in this case they just didn't ask what concentration they were given, so I'm not saying it's necessarily only the vet's fault.


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## jremio (Apr 30, 2012)

Jaye said:


> I think at a certain point *we just have to trust that the vet Jremio went to knows his/her stuff*...so, quite honestly, I would NOT recommend starting to tweak (or second-guess) any dosages which have already been prescribed.
> 
> I think the vet DOES know his/her stuff because it is a good prescription. Baytril as a wide-net antibiotic, Metro to counter canker, and Nystat to take care of the candida/yeast.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your help! Thanks. Here are some pics of him.

After 2 days of medication, more active and calls more frequently.









His younger days


















And yes I am currently looking for a bigger cage, which my dad disagree on buying unless he gets well, which I know he will!


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Thank you Jaye and Jon for the advice!

Jremio - well done, hope all goes well. Beautiful bird! Tell the little birdie (does he have a name?) that he will get a bigger cage when he recovers - so it will motivates him to get well quickly  He's a brave little fighter to keep all those meds down!

Good luck!


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## Lee Wee Meng (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi Jremio, how's your pigeon doing? I happened to be in your same situation. Found a pink necked green pigeon fledging. Rear it for half a year but now it is sick. Exactly like the same symptoms as yours. Hope she will get well.

I was advised by the vet to switch to fruits instead of seeds. So i would need some experienced advice from a local. Hope you can help.


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