# Synulox or Baytril for this Wound?



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I thought I'd found a thread in the Resources last night that would answer this query but today when I need it I can't seem to find it, so...

Can someone remind me whether I should use Synulox or Baytril for a very bloody wound on a wing? Just want to be sure. 

Thanks, Janet


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Synulox/Augmentin/Clavamox is a good antibiotic for bites or cat scratches
and or bad gut bacteria. It gets very good results w/anaerobic bacteria.
Baytril can be used and is used for wounds and is a good broad spectrum
antibiotic. The choice much depends on the circumstances of the injury
and what is being considered in the care of the injury. Both medications
can be used in conjunction with other medication therapies enhancing
the range of bacteria to be treated and the results of the therapy.

fp


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm just about to bathe it so can't say for certain what the cause is yet. If I can tell more once it's clean I'll check back if that helps the decision.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

hi,

Unfortunately this looks much worse than I first thought, well for me anyway.

It's really badly clogged with dried blood and taking a time to see what's underneath. Already I can see that there are broken bones or at least that's what it feels like as there are a lot of rough edges. As I bathe it the wing is getting more unstable. Obviously the dried blood was keeping the wing in place. There is one open wound showing but it's possible if it was a bite, it has gone throught the bones.

I'm giving it a break from bathing and giving it some rehydration fluid. It is very thin.

I've got some visitors in a moment so I'm going to keep him warm and give him a rest before I try to clean it up any more.

I assume I should get some antibiotics going asap.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah (on the antibiotics ASAP). Picture?

Pidgey


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I wish I could say I haven't had this experience, but I have. I'm sorry to even think of another person going through this. Good luck, and let us encourage you. And like the dr. I went to said, don't pass out.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Right I'm back on.

From what I've said any particular choice of anti-biotics then?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I guess the problem is that you don't know the cause of the injury or how much
time has passed since the original incident occurred. You could start w/Synulox
and front load the dose for the first 48 hours keeping a close eye on the bird's 
response to the medication. Make sure the bird has been warmed and rehydrated before introducing food. Do you have veterinary services available
for rescues?

fp


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I'd suggest Synulox. We would use that for wounds normally, on the basis that if it was a cat or other predator, it will act against infection. Could even be a shot wound , I guess.

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Tried some photos.
This is all of the flight feathers it has left.








I still haven't got it completely cleaned up yet so may not be able to see whether it's feathers or bones I can feel.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

It is drinking well and can even flutter up a step using it's wing so no damage to the shoulder. All the damage is on the outer edge, haven't found any other wounds, yet.

FP, When you say 'Front load', is that double up the dose, sorry haven't heard that before the other night when you and Cynthia mentioned it in another thread!

John, I wondered if it was a gun shot but wasn't sure as it doesn't seem to have come right through to the other side. May still have been at an angle though.

FP

I've been working on trying to find a vet that will deal with birds other than my dog's vet that will look at them if you leave the bird with them. Most get PTS according to the receptionist.
I did manage to find a vet only yesterday by phoning about, who likes exotics, was willing to see pigeons, but had to be booked in as pets!
She only comes to the Birmingham practice occasionally and that isn't that near to me. Luckily she was there when I phoned and I managed to get an appointment for her to see my two other pigeon patients in the afternoon. Cost me a bit but at least she is treating them. If only I'd had this bird yesterday.
So unfortunately I can't get this one to her until the next time she's here, next week some time I expect. 


Janet


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Janet - is there a 'Pets at Home' store anywhere around with a Companion Care vet practise and someone who knows birds I wonder? The only W Midlands I could see are Telford and Tamworth on the Companion Care site

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi John,

Yes Tamworth is not too far, I was going to speak to them once before about seeing a bird, Cynthia told me to try them. Unfortunately the bird died before I could get the sanctuary to take it on that occasion. I'll phone and see how they are with birds specifically. 
I just wondered how I'm placed with this bird as it is ringed, will I have to track down it's owners before I can help any further?

Janet


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Um. That could complicate it. It is possible a vet may insist on obtaining instructions from the owner. It may be a legal requirement, but don't know for sure.

I took a pigeon rescued from netting to Brent Lodge, and they said they would have to take it to the vet they use because they could not treat a racing pigeon. The vets found the owner and last they would tell me was that they were waiting for the owner's decision. I had a feeling that would not be good, but I was never able to find out any more.

Guess the other way could be to trace the owner first. Every chance they may just say to keep it and get it treated if you want to. But I couldn't really advise on the best approach - either has its risks.

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I have contacted the British Racing Pigeon number today and had a chat with them. The owner is from the West Midlands but unfortunately they don't have a phone number for him. I have tried to find it but is ex directory, obviously doesn't want to be contacted.
I am going to write him a note telling him about the pigeon's injuries and see what he wants to do.
Interestingly enough though they say I can take it to a vets for treatment if I tell the vet I have spoken to the BRP and they have authorised it as being in the best interests of the bird.
That's good to know.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

After a little more gentle bathing today a lot more dried blood came away, and I can definitely see little broken bones. Two slight holes in the outerside of the wing. I think the elbow joint is broken too but I didn't like to bathe that too much as it seemed to bother him if I went near that more than the other wound.
I have given him some Metacam and put him back on some heat. He's eating and pooping well.

I have put a note in the post to the owner but didn't want to leave him in such a mess while I wait to hear from him as it's the weekend.

I couldn't get him a vet appointment this afternoon anywhere, I wondered if I should strap the wing up a bit to try and keep the bones in place.

How old would it have to be to be too late for the bones to heal?
Don't know how old this wound is.
























I don't know what else to do to help this poor soul for now, it's quite upsetting as the BRP gent said this is most likely a PTS case.
Anything I can put on the sore skin, I just sprayed it with silver.

Thanks

Janet


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Looks like the ends of the bones are drying out. I don't have much hope for flight for this bird, but it can have a lovely life as a pet. Once the bones dry, I understand there isn't much that can be done as far as splinting and mending.

As stated in the manual of surgery that I've been re-reading lately, "Advanced granulation and coagulation on the surface of the damaged flesh may be the greatest barrier to closing large wounds" 

Old wounds naturally try to grow a dry crust and seal themselves, (granulation) thus making repair difficult unless the operation can be conducted in a timely fashion. Under the granulation, a battle is being fought for the life of the animal. Bacteria and cellular damage vs White blood cells and the regrowing of 'sticky' cells to pull the wound closed. Then tiny blood vessels grow to bring more white blood cells to the battle front, and support growth of scare tissue to further close the area. Then the blood vessels atrophy, leaving only scar tissue, in which no more healing occurs.
The point of fast operating is to bring the ends together before scar tissue forms, and before the healthy flesh dies, so that regular flesh can be stitched and regrow. This minimizes scar tissue and gives the patient a chance at regaining full function of limb.

I've seen some nasty holes heal in chickens when all the treatment they got was good food and water and some time alone. Birds are amazing. I tended to pamper my rescue hens much more than that, though. My mom teased me about opening a hen spa.

edit: this is probably obvious, but open wounds and summer = flies. Place netting around the hospital cage or a few drops of Neem oil on a towel over the cage is proven to keep flies away for 12 hours at a time.

edit: yOu might try strapping up the wing, I can tell you it isn't easy.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Janet,

I like calendula (homeopathic or herbal) for helping to heal skin. For shallow wounds, I typically dissolve homeopathic calendula (30c) in some spring water, then use that as a wash. Similar can be done with calendula flowers. There's some info on calendula here: http://www.essentialbird.com/index....irst-aid-for-birds&catid=1:articles&Itemid=35
(please note the caution about infection).

Jennifer


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Philodice and Jenfer,

Thank you both for your responses, I really do appreciate some input as to how to help him feel more comfortable. I find this one quite upsetting as he looks at me so calmly as I bathe it, but it must be so sore. I only had some Aloe Vera gel tonight so I put some of that on it until I can get out for some Calenula tomorrow. I'm going to give that a try, I've been reading up on that tonight and it looks like what's needed. Jenfer, I have been wanting to learn more about what can be used in bird's treatment, Thats' a very good link.

One fragment of bone has come loose tonight as it was only being kept in place by the scab, so it will leave a gap in the bone, don't see how it could heal now. Seems all the little bones have been shattered at the point of impact.

Phil. I could do with your dr over here right now looking at the job he's done with your little one.  Thanks for the tip about flies, I get more than my fair share of those. 

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Still haven't heard from the owner of this bird so decided I must take it to the vets for a proper assessment today.

She confirmed the Ulna and Radius are broken and there is a bone fragment inside the wound hole, apart from a break at the elbow. Poor soul will never fly again.
Such as tragic shame as the shoulder is fine and he does manage to 'fly' up about a foot off the ground when he tries to use it. He is a greedy boy, (or girl), and seems so well in himself now having had a week of good eating and drinking, also is a lovely gentle temperament.

She suggested that it will need that part of the wing amputated if he is to be kept as a pet. The vet said as there is a piece of bone stuck inside, this will always be a risk of recurring infection for him.
She is willing to do this, seems to have the relevant experience, having amputated an Ostrich's wing recently. 
Problem being I still need to get hold of the owner to let him know before anything can be done for this poor bird.

Not been a good news day all round.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might not need to amputate if you keep her on antibiotics and keep it clean. It all might seal over and take care of itself in time. I've had more than a few do that just fine.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,
Do you mean it could seal itself up but still not be a viable wing?

I'll have to query that with her then as I feel sorry to have this done if there was an alternative.
I assumed that it was the problem of the body trying to reject this foreign body, (the bone part), or maybe, like the bird with the deep wound that wasn't healing, the body forming a shell, (sorry i can't remember the correct word at this minute!), around the object.
There is quite a large hole where whatever pearced the wing went in, and it has gone black inside and very hard. You can see the broken Radius end and unfortunately that can't mend as there isn't a piece of bone to connect to.
So when you flex the wing that is unstable.

I'm going away in a week so it can't be done for four weeks at least, unless the owner contacts me quickly before then and takes the bird back. I'm really hoping he'll sign the bird over if he doesn't want it as a pet or for breeding. So that should give it a fair time to see what happens about the skin healing over.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes. I've got several birds in the loft with wings that don't work for various reasons. An older one was shot through the leg and opposite wing with the pellet lodging in the wing. It was a month before she could walk again and she's never been able to fly since. I found her crawling out from under a building right into my path and the wing had an odor of rotting flesh. I guess she'd finally come out searching for food and water or die trying. I cleaned the wound in the wing out--it was at the distal end of the radius and ulna with some breaks and severed tendons. If she could extend the wing fully, she'd be able to fly, I think but it just won't go out quite far enough. She's had several kids up in the loft and is living pretty easily these last few years.

I have some others that their wings actually droop and they almost drag them around. I've taped them up but they seem like they're happier with them down--that way they can flap them some.

Pidgey


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