# new Corbitt Loft in Missouri



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Here are some pics of my new loft I'm building, since my 1st was to small, and the 2nd to open and cold (and because it was a hutch like I couldn't handle and train them as needed.

New loft under construction







Base








Footing








Frame in beginning


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Now stuff is getting together

more loft pics


Putting it together









Framed Out on Footings









now i got to head to the store for more supplies


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Well I guess I will go ahead and say it, before someone else does. That floor is not good. To start with the wire holes are to large, the birds can't stand on that very well and with all the boards you have there they will be standing on them and pooping there and wait till you try to clean poop off the boards with that wire across it, it will be impossible. If I were you i would just plywood it and save yourself a lot of headache down the road. I hope you understand what im saying. Plus critters will walk right in there.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i agree or get some hardware cloth to put there instead of the OPEN wire


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

How are you going to put siding on the side close to the shed? You must be a skinny guy. What are all the braces for and how are you going to side it or wire it with them there?


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

What are the dimensions?


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Pip Logan
6' x 6.5'

Shadybug
Are you one of my Dr's? they've been telling me i have to gain weight for years. but what do Dr's know...

Horseart4u
thanks for the suggestion, if this doesn't work as well as i hope i'll give that a try


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

don't mean to burst your bubble but it wont work, the birds have no footing, seed will fall straight threw and snakes, racoons, cat, mice, rats can get in that.. trust me get 1/4" hardware cloth and lay that over top on that if you can't get that back off..i warn you now people will harp on you till you do, so if you are planning on asking for birds when done..don't!! untill you change that bottom wire.. because they wont do it...they wont send or sell you birds if they feel they are not safe and secure  other then that good luck...


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Quote Horseart4u
thanks for the suggestion, if this doesn't work as well as i hope i'll give that a try

Its a lot easier to change it now then when you have birds in there, and it won't work well so why not change it now, and what about my other questions?


----------



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

What part of Missouri are in?

I just wonder how you are gonna keep mink, snakes, rats and mice out of there. are you planning on making solid walls around the base down to the ground?


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

That's a decent size, u going to race out of it?


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> Horseart4u
> thanks for the suggestion, if this doesn't work as well as i hope i'll give that a try



Why do you keep not listening to peoples' concerns? Instead you let birds die before changing your ways: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/hen-died-52819.html

It's just wrong. So many people are trying to help you here and prevent further deaths and unnecessary illnesses. I hope you wouldn't treat your dogs like this--leaving them open to danger no matter how many people warn you. 

Other than that--I think the aesthetic design will be pretty. I just wish you'd make the practical safety changes.


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Pip Logan said:


> That's a decent size, u going to race out of it?


I did when i started the project couple weeks ago, 
wife just told me a few days ago she wants to put the house on the market and move back to Tennessee in late spring early summer next year.



Thunderbird Racing said:


> What part of Missouri are in?


i'm in north county St Louis, close to 370

I got some more done after i'd taken the last pics.
here it is after getting back from the store


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Well good luck with ur loft and the move  can't wait to see that puppy finished.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> I did when i started the project couple weeks ago,
> wife just told me a few days ago she wants to put the house on the market and move back to Tennessee in late spring early summer next year.
> 
> 
> ...


Despite good advice from many, in this thread and your other thread about training dogs, you continue to do whatever you want. Your new "loft" doesn't have a floor, the wall studs are missing, and you have pressure-treated wood in locations that are direct contact with the birds. If you truly are on here looking for advice, you should go to the loft design section of this forum and do a little reading. What you currently have is a recipe for disaster. Additionally, you never addressed Shadybug Lofts question about how you will put siding up between the two buildings.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

" you never addressed Shadybug Lofts question about how you will put siding up between the two buildings"
i looked at the webiste and i agree not the same thing.. as far as him putting a "wall" next to shed he'll probly do like the other one a use wire and a board to keep it closed..
man you should have put down the hardware cloth before you started anything else, and what other stuff you bought at the store which i really can't tell it all looks used, could have paid for the cloth. you could have gotten 36" x 25ft for $40 and saved your birds life, oh but wait whats it matter you use them to train your dogs right..


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

ptras said:


> Despite good advice from many
> , and you have pressure-treated wood in locations that are direct contact with the birds.


I've read a lot on here, this is the first comment about pressure treated wood and contact with birds.

What exactly is the problem with using pressure treated wood in an outdoor loft?


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> I've read a lot on here, this is the first comment about pressure treated wood and contact with birds.
> 
> What exactly is the problem with using pressure treated wood in an outdoor loft?


*Have you ever done any research on your own?* It seems to me that you want other people to do your research for you, and then ignore the advice that they give you.

Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA):

[Including Chromate Copper Arsenate (CCA), Ammoniacal Copper Arsenate (ACA), and
Ammoniacal Copper Zinc Arsenate(ACZA)]
Consumer Information:

This wood has been preserved by pressure-treatment with an EPA-registered pesticide containing inorganic arsenic to protect it from insect attack and decay. Wood treated with inorganic arsenic should be used only where such protection is important.

Inorganic arsenic penetrates deeply into and remains in the pressure-treated wood for a long time. However, some chemical may migrate from treated wood into surrounding soil over time and may also be dislodged from the wood surface upon contact with skin. Exposure to inorganic arsenic may present certain hazards. Therefore, the following precautions should be taken both when handling the treated wood and in determining where to use or dispose of the treated wood.
Use-Site Precautions:

* All sawdust and construction debris should be cleaned up and disposed of after construction.

* Do not use treated wood under circumstances where the preservative may become a component of food or animal feed. Examples of such sites would be use of mulch from recycled arsenic-treated wood, cutting boards, counter tops, animal bedding, and structures or containers for storing animal feed or human food.

* Only treated wood that is visibly clean and free of surface residue should be used for patios, decks and walkways.

* Do not use treated wood for construction of those portions of beehives which may come into contact with honey.

* Treated wood should not be used where it may come into direct or indirect contact with drinking water, except for uses involving incidental contact such as docks and bridges.

Handling Precautions:

* Treated wood should not be burned in open fires or in stoves, fireplaces, or residential boilers because toxic chemicals may be produced as part of the smoke and ashes. Treated wood from commercial or industrial use (e.g., construction sites) may be burned only in commercial or industrial incinerators or boilers in accordance with state and Federal regulations. CCA-treated wood can be disposed of with regular municipal trash (i.e., municipal solid waste, not yard waste) in many areas. However, state or local laws may be stricter than federal requirements. For more information, please contact the waste management agency for your state.

* Avoid frequent or prolonged inhalation of sawdust from treated wood. When sawing, sanding, and machining treated wood, wear a dust mask. Whenever possible, these operations should be performed outdoors to avoid indoor accumulations or airborne sawdust from treated wood.

* When power-sawing and machining, wear goggles to protect eyes from flying particles.

* Wear gloves when working with the wood. After working with the wood, and before eating, drinking, toileting, and use of tobacco products, wash exposed areas thoroughly.

* Because preservatives or sawdust may accumulate on clothes, they should be laundered before reuse. Wash work clothes separately from other household clothing.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> I've read a lot on here, this is the first comment about pressure treated wood and contact with birds.
> 
> What exactly is the problem with using pressure treated wood in an outdoor loft?


*I'm sure you're going to come back with "My PT wood is preserved with CS-A, not CCA," so here:*

The copper azole preservative incorporates organic triazoles such as tebuconazole or propiconazole as the co-biocide.

Tebuconazole is a triazole fungicide used agriculturally to treat plant pathogenic fungi.

Though the U.S. Food and Drug Administration considers this fungicide to be safe for humans, it may still pose a risk. It is listed as a possible carcinogen in the United States Environmental Protection Agency Office of Pesticide Programs (OPP) Carcinogen List with a rating of C (possible carcinogen). Its acute toxicity is moderate. According to the World Health Organization Toxicity Classification, it is listed as III, which means slightly hazardous.

Due to the potential for endocrine disrupting effects, tebuconazole was assessed by the Swedish Chemicals Agency as being potentially removed from the market by EU regulation 1107/2009.

*or if you use ACQ protected wood:*

Alkaline Copper Quaternary (also known as ACQ) is a water based wood preservative method. The treatment is made up of copper, a fungicide, and a quaternary ammonium compound (quat), an insecticide which also augments the fungicidal treatment is a wood preservative that has come into wide use in the USA, Europe, Japan and Australia following restrictions on CCA.

Quaternary ammonium compounds can display a range of health effects, amongst which are mild skin and respiratory irritation up to severe caustic burns on skin and gastro-intestinal lining (depending on concentration), gastro-intestinal symptoms (e.g., nausea and vomiting), coma, convulsions, hypotension and death. They are thought to be the chemical group responsible for anaphylactic reactions that occur with use of neuromuscular blocking drugs during general anaesthesia in surgery. Quaternium-15 is the single most often found cause of allergic contact dermatitis of the hands (16.5% in 959 cases)


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Pip Logan said:


> Well good luck with ur loft and the move  can't wait to see that puppy finished.


Thanks pip, it will be a while


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

I here that, do you currently have birds in your other Lofts?


----------



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> i'm in north county St Louis, close to 370


are you planing or racing in the near future? do you have a YB team some place? our season starts on Aug 21. I'm not for sure but I think you would be in the same club as me, if you decide to race.


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Pip & Thunderbird,
i have some birds
i first wanted some just for the dog work, as i learned more about it, i kind of got attached to the idea of distance racing pigeon...maybe because i'm a washed out distance runner myself, and maybe because my oldest thought they were cool to watch. (and me too)

Some nice guys in a local club gave me some pigeons to start what ever i want, on the condition they don't make it back there alive. 
So I built some lofts and tried to breed what i could... figured it is a racing pigeon
As far as racing potential goes for the few babies of culls (that is the eggs that would actually hatch) that i got, well i'm not sending them this season

Thunderbird, i'll send you a pm


----------



## rcwms90 (Apr 28, 2011)

i thinks you might have a problem with birds escaping but something gets in that wire is real lite an can easily be pushed outta place but other then the wire its a great design.


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

*More Loft*

Here are some more pics

putting my son to work

















a bit more


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

except for door outside almost done









PS while i have pigeons, i have room for for 600mile day bird breeders   if someone is passing them on


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

The roof is awesomely cool! 

...but that wire is going to let anything eat your birds that wants to.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What a mess


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> except for door outside almost done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As Shadybug states above: What a mess!

I hope that other flyers reading this thread will look closely at the lack of security on this loft before offering birds to this *dog trainer.*

You think it is cool to watch the birds. I don't think the birds will think it is so cool to live there.


----------



## rcwms90 (Apr 28, 2011)

*Please Change It!*

i think you're ignoring us an don't understand the seriousness of this problem, i guess u wanna see first hand. but don't say we needed warn u. some members will have no sympathy for u. as we all or trying to help.


----------



## pookie! (Jul 22, 2011)

Even I can spot that this loft is a complete wreck !! I wouldnt put a bucket of turds in that thing !!

*shakes head* 

I seriously hope no one gives this dude birds..


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I can see the birds getting caught and hanging themselves in that aviary, if thats what you call that thing hanging on the side.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

that aviary....what is that? birds will for sure get cuts and hawks and what ever else will have a field day, the holes ARE WAY TO BIG we all told you to get hardware cloth...


----------



## pookie! (Jul 22, 2011)

I had an aviary that had that same sized wire, it was used for chickens before I got it, and one morning I came out and there was a hawk trying to pull one of my birds through the wire, mangled the poor thing up so bad I had to put it down. Not to mention mice had no problem getting in and eating squabs and eggs.


----------



## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

It's pretty clear that this guy is not listening and does not care about his birds. Unfortunately, his birds will have to pay the price for his ignorance and lack of caring. What a shame!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You are setting your birds up for DEATH. 

Please use only 1/4 inch hardware cloth on barriers (and ANY other opening) between your birds and the outside world. Anything holes larger then 1/4 inch leaves your birds vulnerable to all kinds of predators.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

akbird said:


> It's pretty clear that this guy is not listening and does not care about his birds. Unfortunately, his birds will have to pay the price for his ignorance and lack of caring. What a shame!


People have been giving him good advice since the start of this thread. It appears that he only responds to people who are complementary, and ignores advice given. At first, I was interested in helping him out, but now I realize that he is going to do whatever he wants anyway. So...at this point, I'm just trying to let other people who read this thread know the truth about this "project".

I guess I shouldn't expect anything different from someone who obtained his first pigeons to train dogs with.


----------



## rcwms90 (Apr 28, 2011)

dude u know how people put bird feeders in there yard. if u d0n't change the wire this will become a big wild animal feeder


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

I've had pigeon and bird books since before i started getting pigeons, although from the 1950's to 1970's
As well as seen a number of lofts (for all purposes)

But i'm thinking
So as construction materials change, the price of materials change, building codes change, and the floating standard for care in avian husbandry, etc

I'd suggest that someone (given the over adamant opinions posted) take an action to form a *Committee on Pigeon-Talk of Architects, Engineers, National Champion flyers, and Veterinarians * 
To from a *STICKY* thread (perhaps locked after complete) of a *Guide of Standards that should be followed when designing and constructing a loft of any size, or for any purpose*

Therefore being an easy to find guide in the art of current pigeon loft construction.

Instead of leaving new guys to out dated standards, or guessing in the dark about steadiness, material choices, and footings.

After materials are bought and cut, they caN'T be returned.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What would be the pupose of that, You wouldn't follow it anyway. You should by a book on simple construction and the rest is already on this site


----------



## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

You can search the AU site for Loft Standards.
And if you do expect to race , I would highly suggest you check the standards before you "finish" your loft.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> What would be the pupose of that, You wouldn't follow it anyway. You should by a book on simple construction and the rest is already on this site


Exactly. One could take time to research by looking at established successful lofts of other members in the loft section of this site which is all about loft building, safety, etc. A sticky thread also already exists that shows good designs and where to get hardware: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/pigeon-lofts-amp-hardware-12912.html

Also, this guy wouldn't be "guessing in the dark" if he took the time to listen to others here who try to help him. I recall showing a picture in one of his other threads of a suitable loft with hardware cloth (there was also a lot of discussion about the problems with using other wires--long before he started asking about the loft in the thread right here.) Many other people have voiced similar concerns which were left unheeded. 

Edit: Here's the quote I'm talking about:


Libis said:


> It looks like the holes in your wire walls are big enough for almost any predator to get a paw in, that probably needs to be changed if you don't want to lose more birds.
> 
> Also, I don't see how they could keep very warm in there. I think something like a traditional chicken coop with insulated wooden walls would be safer and warmer. (Though I don't personally have outdoor birds and am just going off the sort of buildings my relatives keep their chickens, rabbits, and goats in through the winter.)
> Something like this maybe?:
> ...


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> I've had pigeon and bird books since before i started getting pigeons, although from the 1950's to 1970's
> As well as seen a number of lofts (for all purposes)
> 
> But i'm thinking
> ...


On May 18th, in this thread, http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/hen-died-52819.html you posted a picture of your original "big loft". Within an hour of posting the picture, you had six responses with advice about predator-proofing your loft. Despite the advice given, you proceeded with your new loft on July 14th, using the same materials that you were advised not to use in your prior loft.

I must conclude, that you either didn't read the responses, or you just don't care. Either way, a "Sticky" thread with loft building advice would be useless to you. Regarding your inability to return materials once they are opened and cut...if you paid attention to the advice, you wouldn't be in that situation now, would you?

*Edit:*
Are you truly an engineer as your profile suggests? If so, I would expect a much higher standard when it came to building and construction.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> Instead of leaving new guys to out dated standards, or guessing in the dark about steadiness, material choices, and footings.


dude, you have been to Gene's more than once, this isn't a fair statement, you know what a good loft looks like. I'm not trying to dog you here, I'm just sayin'


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Thunderbird Racing said:


> dude, you have been to Gene's more than once, this isn't a fair statement, you know what a good loft looks like. I'm not trying to dog you here, I'm just sayin'


yeah, he has 3 totally different ones, and would like to tear them all down and build something totally different... guess you didn't ask what the ideal loft would be.
but i don't have that kind of money



> Shadybug Lofts: What would be the pupose of that, You wouldn't follow it anyway. You should by a book on simple construction and the rest is already on this site


you need glasses and a dictionary
buy has a "u"
and i already got some books, they are so old that they talk about constructing lofts using this thin dowel rods and 1/2inch or 1 inch spacing.

Libis are you ever even going to get real racing pigeons? 
you should check that sticky, most links are broken, links that work are often to businesses selling lofts, not giving away plans.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> yeah, he has 3 totally different ones, and would like to tear them all down and build something totally different... guess you didn't ask what the ideal loft would be.
> but i don't have that kind of money


I have been to Gene's several time too, and have only ever seen 2 lofts...

his racing/breeding loft, and the little coop he started with....
again I say, I'm not trying to talk down to you, I'm trying to help you. but you know what a good loft looks like, you have known Gene longer than I.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

so if you got old a$$ books buy new ones are you that cheap?? lowes , home depot and any hard ware store sells books on construction or building decks, checken coop/lofts chicken pens, you name it.. hell if all you are gonna do is complain about what people tell you what advice you are asking for them just delete this thread and go about doing your loft your way and god help your poor birds...


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

horseart4u. I'm not sure your in any position to give advice like that, when you didn't listen to any that was given to you.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

UMM EXCUSE me but i listened to EVERTHING i was told to do..i put on 1/4" hardware cloth on flight pen, on ground in flight pen , on bottom in shed, added vents, added a fan to circulate air, made nest boxes so my birds would be comfortible and cool... i did EVEYTHING people suggested i should do and a bit more.. i have had my birds for 3 weeks now and they are happy and healthy.. so i do have a right to put in my opinion in this thread......


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Sorry if I offended you, but I just read your entire thread and you were real reluctant and arguing with people about your loft. The pics you showed didn't show any wire on the floor and you said you didn't have electric to the loft in the fan thread. Most of the things you said you did you made no mention of so how are we supose to know what was done. If you did what you say you did thats good, you came around in the end and thats a good thing, and maybe he will to.


----------



## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Sorry if I offended you, but I just read your entire thread and you were real reluctant and arguing with people about your loft. The pics you showed didn't show any wire on the floor and you said you didn't have electric to the loft in the fan thread. Most of the things you said you did you made no mention of so how are we supose to know what was done. If you did what you say you did thats good, you came around in the end and thats a good thing, and maybe he will to.


no offence just a little shocked you said that.. i didn't put in the fan thread a post that i got a fan sorry. it is battery operated actually, the pic's wont show the hardware cloth the grass has grown up threw it already i also did a few different treads so maybe they got crossed some where along the way


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I will give you my honest assessment of your loft as I see it. I think it will be fine now that you did all that. I still don't like metal lofts. I think they create to much heat. I also understand that you had no other option and you are making it work. I think its working fine due to the large door opening to release most of the heat, and lets a large amount of air flow in. If it were closed up with a smaller door, I think you would have problems. When you get the partial roof on, if you haven't already, that will make it nicer. I not sure how the sand will work during large rain storms, without any drainage, you would think the water would follow the sand into the loft and stay wet and cause sickness, unless you have a board or something between there to stop that. Only you will know how that will go. Overall you did a nice job on everything. The birds look happy in the nest boxes and perches. Have fun with your birds.


----------



## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I will give you my honest assessment of your loft as I see it. I think it will be fine now that you did all that. I still don't like metal lofts. I think they create to much heat. I also understand that you had no other option and you are making it work. I think its working fine due to the large door opening to release most of the heat, and lets a large amount of air flow in. If it were closed up with a smaller door, I think you would have problems. When you get the partial roof on, if you haven't already, that will make it nicer. I not sure how the sand will work during large rain storms, without any drainage, you would think the water would follow the sand into the loft and stay wet and cause sickness, unless you have a board or something between there to stop that. Only you will know how that will go. Overall you did a nice job on everything. The birds look happy in the nest boxes and perches. Have fun with your birds.


Can you tell us in 10 words or less what u really think


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> Libis are you ever even going to get real racing pigeons?
> you should check that sticky, most links are broken, links that work are often to businesses selling lofts, not giving away plans.


Instead of trying to discredit me, protect your animals--as is your responsibility when you take them into your ownership. I'm not the only one telling you these same basic safety issues. I've worked enough at the zoo and on ranches/farms to know how to keep basic pests/predators/injury/disease away. You need to learn this if you want living birds. It's just that simple. This could extend to any other bird species kept outdoors in a similar shed setup. One way keeps them healthy, the other kills them off--as you have already experienced. 

Also, looking at pictures from businesses selling lofts can give a pretty good idea of what to make. There is also an entire section of the forum dedicated to loft building, plans, etc--read.

Edit: Going back through that sticky I posted, I found many plans and other useful info that still had working links. For example:

http://www.shewmaker.com/backyard_loft_design.pdf

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/JeffDowningCage.htm

http://www.pigeon.org/sclofts1_05.htm

http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm

http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/WidowhoodLoftPage.html

Informative article on loft design:
http://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/2010/03/11/loft-construction-and-design/

This one below is generally cool-looking even though there is no step-by-step:
http://www.redroselofts.com/carlos_loft.htm

Deal with it, you're just being lazy. It took me five minutes to look through all of those links to see that they worked and had useful plans or information.


----------



## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

ccccrnr,
3 words......... " RED ROSE LOFTS "


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good Lord! I just noticed this thread. Actually, reading all the comments was kind of entertaining, until I think about the fact that real birds are going to live in there. 

ccccrnr, is there a reason why you aren't taking any of the advice these guys are trying to give you? I don't think anyone is trying to be mean. Just trying to give good advice to keep your birds safe and healthy. These are living feeling animals. The wire for the aviary is dangerous. Their feet will fall through those holes, and mice and rats can walk right through them and kill your birds, and make them very sick at the least. If a person keeps an animal or birds, then it is their responsibility to keep those animals or birds safe and healthy. If you don't do that, then you shouldn't have them. 

Is there a reason why you can't use hardware cloth to keep predators out? If you really can't afford to buy some of these things, then you shouldn't be keeping the birds. That isn't fair to them. You are locking them up in a place where they would be trapped and unable to get away if a predator got in. Do you not care about that?


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Wingsonfire said:


> Can you tell us in 10 words or less what u really think


Sorry can't do that, but I can tell you in 10 words or less what I think of yours. Your lofts and breeding pens are beautifully built. I wish they were mine. oops thats 13 sorry.  I do have a question for you. How do the birds like the breeding pens? Im sure you saw my quarantine pens, I have 2 new birds in each one now for a week and they look miserable in there. I can't imagine having to keep them in there for a long time. They will be out and in the loft Tuesday and I can't wait.


----------



## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

ccccrnr:

I built my second loft last year. I spent a couple months looking at threads in the "Loft Design" section. I read all of the comments- pro and con. You can gain a ton of good info be learning from other people's mistakes... knowing why they built their lofts the way they did.

By the time I put saw to wood, I knew exactly what I wanted, how many birds it could hold, and that they would be safe from all that predators and the weather could throw at them. I have had to make only one change to the loft, and that was because of a freak blizzard that dumped 5' of snow on us with 50 mph winds. A simple fix. 

Those with more experience- some of it bad- are trying to help you see why what you are doing is doomed to failure.

When you insist on doing things cheaply and poorly- people are telling you what will happen to your birds. You have no idea the damage a bull raccoon or a coyote can do. Mice are a huge problem for birds... if mice can get close to your birds, you will never be rid of paratyphoid. Young bird mortality will be through the roof. The birds you have that live will be poor flyers.

There's a lot of knowledge here- you just have to be smart enough to take advantage of it.

Or not. Your choice.


----------



## blackknight01 (Feb 20, 2010)

thats the best damn aviary i have ever seen...


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey ccccrnr, Cat got your tongue


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Hey ccccrnr, Cat got your tongue


Seems the cat always has his tongue...except when he is defending his bad decisions.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Maybe he's not responding because the cat got his birds. lol


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Some just want to do what they want to do and don't want anyone to tell them different. Too bad.


----------



## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have any updated pics?


----------



## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

*Aug 5 pics*

just got the email yesterday there where update to this thread,
but i've been busy working and playing with the dogs anyway

here's some more pics to flame at (since this thread keeps going)

Another pic of the avary with bottom change









Flier side better inside pic than before


----------



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What are you going to do when one of the birds sticks its head out that wire that is crisscrossed and moves its head to the narrower part and hangs itself. How about a little head room. The only thing i see is no respect for your birds.


----------



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ccccrnr said:


> just got the email yesterday there where update to this thread,
> but i've been busy working and playing with the dogs anyway
> 
> here's some more pics to flame at (since this thread keeps going)
> ...


Here's the problem...you think we are "flaming" your loft. We're not. We're flaming the person who would build something like that and ignore the advice offered. If you can't afford to buy a roll of hardware cloth, what will you do when a bird gets sick and needs medication? Or even more expensive, what if you need to take a bird to an avian vet?

Edit:
After I posted the first picture of my loft, I received the following comments: "What a nice loft." "What beautiful birds you have." "The birds look very happy in your loft." Then I received one comment: "Those nails sticking out look like a wounded bird looking to happen." Instead of defending my decision to have nails sticking out to hang my Christmas lights on, I went down to my loft and pulled the nails. That is what someone does who cares about the welfare of their birds.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shadybug is right. Your birds could strangle in that wire. I'm saying this because I did have a small space in my loft when I put the doors on the nest boxes. The space was between the nest box and the door. It was a bit wider at the top then at the bottom. It did cross my mind that one might stick his head out there, and I had intended to fix it. But before I could do that, I walked into the loft to find that a bird I had confined to his box, had indeed stuck his head out at the top where it was wider, then slid down to the narrower part, and got stuck. I was VERY lucky that I had been home that day and been in and out of the loft. I came in to find him stuck and looking like he was in trouble. I got him out in time, and immediately fixed all those spaces. But it could have ended with my finding a dead bird. And the horrible part of that would have been that it would have been MY fault. Lesson learned. I look for things like that, and try to avoid something happening, rather than waiting for it to happen. That is all we are trying to do for you. You should listen and learn from the experiences of others. Sometimes someone else sees something that you may not see as dangerous for the birds. Believe me, that aviary is just SO dangerous for those birds. If there is something they can do to get into trouble, they will. Please..............be protective of your birds. They depend on you to keep them safe. Some of us have learned some lessons the hard way, but the smart ones listen and learn from the ones with experience. Are you always so difficult to convince? If you really care about the welfare of your birds, you will listen and try to do the best for them, rather than taking chances with them, and maybe having them suffer and die. How will you feel if something like that happened? Or would you not feel anything at all?


----------



## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

An engineer by trade? First draw out what you are thinking of it looking like, research the structure, get a second opinion, research building materials, check for permits, and then start building. Doing it right the first time is always better. If you do the whole thing with screws it can be moved or altered later.
Logangrmnr


----------



## Jerryx4 (Jun 9, 2011)

If he can afford fancy plastic type roofing stuff i'm sure he has no problem sourcing 1x1cm wire instead of that terror chicken-sized ****.
If you stop dodging up wire jobs ur loft will be nice and safe.


----------



## rcwms90 (Apr 28, 2011)

*Holy Crap*

OMG HE ACTUALLY PUT BIRDS IN THAT DEATH TRAP. POOR THINGS I GIVE THEM 2 WEEKS TOP (an i really dont care about being mean anymore we try to help u. thats all)


----------



## rcwms90 (Apr 28, 2011)

hey wheres sky tx lol i guess he didnt catch this thread i was looking forward to his input IF U KNOW WHAT I MEAN


----------

