# woodpigeon found yesturday



## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

I found a small baby bird yesturday outside my front door, he had blood on him and there was no nest to be seen, he looked like a cat got him. At first had no idea what sort of bird it was, but after looking it up on the internet and reading your posts i am pretty sure it is a wood pigeon, he survived the night after i cleaned him up and kept him warm. hes quite chirpy now. i have no idea how old he is but he weighs about 150grams. i wreckon from looking at your pictures hes between a week and 10 days old. At first i was having so much trouble feeding him, but after using that baloon-syringe method he has quietened down in fact worried he ate too much. can u catch diseases off these woodpigeons? how can i tell if hes a boy or a girl? he seems quite happy to be with me, he is very cute, but im worried that now i am hindering his release in to the wild when hes older, when can i do this and where?


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

*p.s.*

im feeding him on bread and weetabix with milk put through a sieve several times, is this right and didnt have anything else, he seems to like it and digestive biscuit in milk sieved? i hope its ok. hes cleaning himself so he seems quite happy.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this baby wood pigeon. Please do not give any milk product or dairy product.

Make sure the wound is cleaned thoroughly and use an antibiotic cream on it. 
It should be on an anti-biotic also.

Keep baby warm and in a quiet draft free area.

You can give the bird some soaked (and drained) puppy chow. Tear it in small pieces and feed behing the tounge. There is also a baby bird formula you can get called Exact. These two things will give it the nutrition it needs as it is in a rapid stage of growth.

I have not raised a baby wood pigeon but there are others here who will come along and help.

Pigeons are not disease carriers by nature, but I would have this baby checked out by a pigeon friendly rehabber or avian vet as soon as you can.

The gender at this age is hard to determine, lets save that for a later date, okay?

Release in the wild requires minimum contact with the bird. 

Treesa


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## Snowbird (Jun 24, 2004)

Good job and the advice provided will see you through. 

As to the sex: glue two small magnets together so that they are touching with the resisting sides--you force them to touch and use a fast drying glue to cement the bond, or use a locking pliers. Then attach a short string to your double magnet about 20 centimeters. Hold the string about 15 centimeters from the magnet which is just over but not touching the youngster. Make the magnet circle the youngster in a counter clockwise direction. Once it is circling smoothly, count to 20 revolutions. A girl and the magnet still travels in a circle. A boy and the circle breaks into a line trace.


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

*urrm*

well i only have lamb and rice mature dog food, no puppy food and no cat food, i dont have that exact food but will get tomorrow if he survives the night, but hes hungry now what is the best home alternative that will not hurt the little fella?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If your dog food is dry dog food you can soak some of that and use it for now. Human baby cereal can be used to make baby bird formula as can cream of wheat mixed with warm water .. no milk. Other types of dry cereal could also be used ... smash it up and mix with water. 

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

Can you let us know where you are? One of us might be able to help.

If you are in the UK you can get egg food at the pet shop, mix that into a paste and feed by the syringe and balloon method. Or you could try defrosted frozen peas and corn (but not the tinned sort)!

Mine was 120 gms by day 7 so it sounds as if yours is over a week old.

Don't worry about diseases, but do wash your hands after handling any wild animal!

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

he survived another night, i went and got him some exact, and hes eating quite happily. i hope it agrees with him. im a bit worried as his poo is very runny, do u think its the milk i gave him in the beginning or the changing of diets? hes got food all over him though hes a bit or a messy eater, is there any way of cleaning him a bath or something, i dont want to hurt him, but hygiene is very important.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

daisyholden said:


> he survived another night, i went and got him some exact, and hes eating quite happily. i hope it agrees with him. im a bit worried as his poo is very runny, do u think its the milk i gave him in the beginning or the changing of diets? hes got food all over him though hes a bit or a messy eater, is there any way of cleaning him a bath or something, i dont want to hurt him, but hygiene is very important.


Hi there, changing the diet can cause the poop to be runny, it should settle in a day or so, I presume it wasn't runny yesterday? Have you got the Exact hand rearing formula for parrrots rather than macaws? Pigeons often have Trich (canker), I can send you some Spartrix tablets in case he has it if you like, or your vet maybe able to give you some, for a pigeon less than a month old I give half a tablet as a one off dose, but it can be given for 3 days. Trich can cause diarrhoea. How much are you feeding him? For a 10 day woodie I would be feeding 20-30ml 3 times a day, making sure the crop has fully emptied before the next feed. To clean him after his feed use a wet (just water) cotton wool pad to wipe it off each time. I always hold a paper towel under the chin too stop it dripping down onto their breast. Make sure you wipe (gently) the food from their nostrils too.
Alison


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

AliBlack said:


> Hi there, changing the diet can cause the poop to be runny, it should settle in a day or so, I presume it wasn't runny yesterday? Have you got the Exact hand rearing formula for parrrots rather than macaws? Pigeons often have Trich (canker), I can send you some Spartrix tablets in case he has it if you like, or your vet maybe able to give you some, for a pigeon less than a month old I give half a tablet as a one off dose, but it can be given for 3 days. Trich can cause diarrhoea. How much are you feeding him? For a 10 day woodie I would be feeding 20-30ml 3 times a day, making sure the crop has fully emptied before the next feed. To clean him after his feed use a wet (just water) cotton wool pad to wipe it off each time. I always hold a paper towel under the chin too stop it dripping down onto their breast. Make sure you wipe (gently) the food from their nostrils too.
> Alison


 i have kaytee exact, hand feeding formula for all baby birds, is this right? how would you know if he had canker. ive been feeding him about 20ml every 4 hours is this wrong, i always make sure his crop is empty? Thank you for the cleaning tips and thanx everyone for all your help i hope he gets on ok
Daisy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Daisy,

You are doing fine, keep feeding him everytime the crop empties. The crop should be full like a bean bag, not too full. It should not look like a tight fully inflated balloon.

You can wash off the formula with warm water and dry with a soft towel. That is what I did for my youngsters.

Keep checking the poop and it should turn into brown looking, like ice cream coming out of a soft ice cream machine, like a ribbon. Continue to keep us updated on the poop, as that may or may not be another issue.

Treesa


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Have you got the baby on antibiotics? If he was cat caught then he needs treatment or he could die very suddenly even though he doesn't show signs of infection. I use Synulox for cat caught pigeons. 

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

good news, the poo is not runny anymore! yea. Synulox? would i get it from the vet, would they gie it for a wild animal? by the way he weighs 175 grams now.
Daisy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Infection isn't inevitable but a serious possibility.

The right vet would prescribe antibiotics, I use Companion Care, which I think is linked to Pets at Home.

Otherwise I can post you some, if you e-mail me your address privately I can probably catch tonight's post, but otherwise it could take too long.

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

that would be good, but will it hurt him if he doesnt have an infection? how do i send u my address?


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

i think ive managed to email you Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

John has put some pills in an envelope and has gone post-box hunting! Unfortunately they removed the post box near my house sometime this week after closing down the post office!

I will check the dosages and get back to you. There may not be enough for a full course in the envelope. I will check with Helen and if necessary send some supplementary pills!


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## Snowbird (Jun 24, 2004)

It can be said that many at this site are in love with a knee jerk reaction to use antibiotics. Can a dose of antibiotics hurt a bird. Yes! and especially in the case a young bird. A young bird must go through a process with the following principal aim: To allow a controlled exposure to disease organisms so that the youngsters can develop a strong natural immunity to them. This is achieved by providing a stress-free environment and by avoiding the use of medication if possible. 

The routine use of medication during this time because of an attack should be avoided. During the first few weeks after weaning, the birds are being exposed to a whole range of potentially harmful organisms. A youngster does not become sick but rather through this exposure develops an immunity to the organism. Provided the youngsters are well in themselves, a low level of diseases such as wet canker, respiratory infection or Coccidia at this time can be regarded as beneficial in that it reinforces the growing youngsters' developing natural immunity. The use of medications at this time simply interrupts this exposure with the result that the birds' level of natural immunity is not as high. For this reason, a youngster is only treated if a health problem progresses to the point where the bird is clearly showing signs. Admittedly, birds are good at hiding illness, but a person observing them closely can make this call–that is your job.

For a youngster to mount a good immune response and, in the process, form a strong natural immunity following exposure to disease organisms, it must be stress-free. Stress compromises the function of the immune system. Until you see symptoms, you would do better to provide proper nutrition–you need to introduce a good mix of minerals, vitamins, fats and proteins. 

I have a bird I picked up a week ago with no tail feathers, half back feathers missing, and his vent was torn off completely and draining. It couldn’t fly but was energetic enough. A week later he is doing acrobatic flying, and growing feathers like weeds. A course of antibiotics–no thank you! This happens all the time.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Pasteurella Multicocida*

Snowbird,

Cats carry carry a small, gram-negative organism in their saliva called Pasteurella Multicocida. This bacteria leads to septicemia and death if introduced into a bird by a bite or a scratch. Because birds have a fast metabolism the infection develops quickly. They can die before symptoms show, even to the most experienced eye. As far as I know they do not develop an immunity to pasteurella!

A dose of antibiotics may reduce a birds immunity, a dose of pasteuralla will kill it. Think on.

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

i have noticed that when his wings are at rest the one which was bleediing doesnt sit like the other, whenever he moves it around its seems ok, like when hes stretching and flapping, is this a cause for concern?
i dont want to hinder his progress, but i dont want him to die of an infection either, so how should i adminster the antibiotics that are being posted and how much? i hope they come soon i dont want him to die suddenly, weve come so far.
Daisy


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*Antibiotics*

I would agree to a great extent with what Snowbird says, in effect about birds - any animals, including humans - needing normal exposure to organisms in order to develop proper immune system resistance. I would also agree that antibiotics used too freely can lessen their effectiveness in the future when there may be a real need for them, but....

I would certainly consider that an animal attack, where there is a high likelihood of infection, is one of those situations where it is best not to take a chance. I would agree in such a case that an antibiotic is a wise course of action. A 'better safe than sorry' situation, I'd say.

I think we need to consider that the kind of infection which can be caused by a cat attack is not just 'normal' exposure to potential disease causing organisms, but possible exposure to organisms introduced into the system by a non-natural predator.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their views on how to - or not to - treat a needy bird, but I think those views are best expressed without denigrating the efforts and experience of others with whom they disagree!

John


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Daisy - 

Hopefully they will arrive tomorrow, but it obviously depends on how efficient 1st class mail is

We will confirm the dosage

John


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## Snowbird (Jun 24, 2004)

Nobody here knows for sure what is right for this particular bird. The comments refer to a pattern of grasping for silver bullets at Pigeons.com. You can spare me the guilt trip.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Damn straight!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Natural Healing*

Okay..okay..this is a great subject...

I have not been able to get a hold of my rehabber due to everyone loosing telephone service thanks to hurricane Frances, but I'm definitely going to find out what she uses for antibiotics in case of cat scratches, severe or not.

She has been rehabbing birds and animals for the last 20 years without any kind of drugs and has been very successful. It took a leap of faith on her part, but she said it has made a big difference in survival rates. Let me see what her course of treatment is and I will start a new post.

Don't know when...as we may be dealing with hurricane Ivan

Treesa


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## Snowbird (Jun 24, 2004)

Good luck with Ivan Treesa.

Good to hear from you Jennifer.


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

I would just like to thank this forum and everyone who posted for their help, hes doing fine i think, hes getting bigger and his feathers are coming through wonderfully. i hope everything will be ok.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Snowbird,

Glad to hear the little guy with the torn vent is doing so well. Good luck with him.


Treesa,

Prayers go out to you and the rest of our friends in Florida with Ivan. Geez, enough is enough! When you are able, it would be very interesting and helpful to learn about the natural remedies your rehabber uses. 

To everyone,

I think one of the most useful aspects of this site is the fact that some of our members are very well versed on pigeon health and care for injuries, illness, etc. I also think that members should be able to feel free to express their opinions on treatment, etc., without fear of constant admonishment from others, if that opinion happens to go against popular thinking. By considering all avenues of treatments and opinions available, we all have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

JMHO,

Linda


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Lin - I agree, anyone should be free to give whetever views on treatment they believe may be helpful. This includes those who DO hold a 'traditional' view. The only thing that is asked of contributors is that they share their experience and opinions respectfully, not in a way that is dismissive of others.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

A pigeon's life is at stake here so my main concern is that any opinion on treatment is put forward in an effort to help rather than to provoke a discussion. 

For this reason I have had to start a new thread specifically on the treatment of cat bites.

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi,
he is still going strong, and im wandering when it woul be time to start weening? and how would i do it? and what with? 
Daisy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

By my reckoning, he must be about 10 days old now, probably a little bit older. In the wild he would leave the nest at 35 days, but he would receive parental care for some time after that. Wait a few days and then start mixing in a little seed with his food. Teach him how to "peck" at food with your fingers.

In my experience weaning wood pigeons has been difficult. I had to put mine in my aviary so that he would get the idea from other pigeons.

Ideally yours should spend some time with other wood pigeons, to learn the ropes from them. I will see if I can track anyone down over the next few days.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Daisy,

If you scroll down the emergency care forum you will see a post from diogenese about New Arrivals. He lives in Abingdon, which isn't too far from youm and has just found 2 baby woodpigeons. Perhaps all three could be released together when they are ready to go? They would stand a better chance of survival if they were given the opportunity to go as a little flock.

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

what kind of seed should i try to give him?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

In the wild they feed on crops (which gets them shot  ) flowers, young leaves, seeds, herbs, grasses, grain and berries and I think acorns.

I fed mine economy pigeon mix and in winter I feed the wild ones mixed corn, but I think that wild bird seed would be popular with them. Add greenery like cos lettuce or hearts of romaine. One of last years rescuers gathered berries (I think it was hawthorn and elder) and encouraged them to eat from the branches so that they would recognise the food in the wild.

Cynthia


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## daisyholden (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi,
i just thought u guys would like to know, that PIJ is doing really well, and growing up fast. He has finished his course of antibiotics and he has most of his feathers and hrdly any yellow tufty bits. He has learnt the art of pecking food he still needs a bit of encouragement but hes getting the idea, which is great i was really worried i wouldnt be able to get him to do it. hes trying a bit of flying but no full flight as of yet. my dog sulking a bit because so much interest is being taken in the new arrival, but she'll cope.
hope that is keeping you guys updated.
Daisy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Daisy,

Thanks for the update! I was wondering about PIJ's progress earlier in the day.

Congratulations on getting him to peck at seeds so early! I have always found woodpigeons so much slower at catching on with the self feeding. Collared doves are so quick to learn!

Cynthia


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