# Urgent Baby Question



## Jalvbau93 (Jan 17, 2010)

Ten characters


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Wow...quite a story.
How much seed did you mother feed the baby? Has any passed though? Is the baby pooping?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Does the crop hang down? Sometimes that happens to babies when they are fed too much and the crop stretches out. If so...it's an easy fix. If it is stretched, you need to fix it soon so all the food can empty and the baby won't get a bacterial infection.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This from Avian Web...

Overfeeding the chick will result in overstretching the crop. Inexperienced breeder very easily overfeed the chicks. It is important for the breeder to know when to stop feeding. In an overfed chick, the crop loses its ability to push the food from the crop into the digestive track, causing the food to remain in the crop and turning sour (bad). Breeders and vets have successfully used a crop bra to support the crop. I made crop bras out of an elastic bandage - please refer to below illustration. 


Please see the full article for a crop bras illustration. In a baby pigeon you want to lift the crop into a normal position, without making the crop bra too tight. The crop should go back to normal within a couple of days.

http://www.avianweb.com/slowcrop.html


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

At this age, a few Seeds won't hurt...if maybe passing more slowly than formula.

Unless the Crop is 'sagging' below a normal way of being there, I doubt any harm has been done. Their Crops are quite elastic, and, will accomidate widely varying meal sizes...and unless really outrageously stuffed where it is painfully obvious, things are probably fine if one slight overfilling had occurred.


Make sure he is well hydrated, allowing him to drink between meals..."tepid" Water...softly guide the lower half of his Beak into it with your fingertips on his Beak...and he will drink.


Keep the Formula 'soupy', also...so it has plenty of Water in it and is not 'thick', where, if it is, it will not pass well nor hydrate him well.


Chilled Babys usually soon are afflicted with Candida or Canker however...so, it may be prudent to add 3 Tablespoons of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water, and then use that 'Water' for the formula mixing, while keeping an Eye on -

A) How well the Crop is passing...and...

B) Any hints of 'yellow' tint to the Urates



If seeing any yellow tints to his Urates, let us know.


Keep the Baby so he himself is a little above human body temperature...and not more...and not less...if he seems swoony or panting, he is too hot...so, just so his underside when against the underside of your wrist, feels just a little warmer than your own temp.


He will soon become endothermic, and be a little 'Furnace' all by himself, roaring along at 104 something, where-upon, it will not be necessary to supply artificial warmth any longer...even if they do like it!


Phil
Lv


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...read post #5. It's really easy to remedy.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Phil...it is a problem if the crop is stretched out.


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## Seijun (Apr 14, 2010)

My 8 day old dove continues to beg even after he is fed, but settles down after a while, so I think that is normal.

Regarding the seeds, I read somewhere on the forum to use apple cider vinegar mixed with water (4 parts ACH to 1 part water) to help get food moving out of the crop. Here is another thread that mentions it:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/help-baby-dove-has-slow-crop-32280.html


ferelpigeon said:


> I use raw apple cidar vinegar in warmish water for slow crop and give every hour or two dependant on how the crop is proceding. Had a baby w/a crop jam packed w/dried corn to the point that you could see the shape of the kernels come in once and the ACV worked like a charm. I used a teaspoon per cup of Bragg's. I didn't resume feedings until the crop was emptied again.


Regarding the amount to feed, I have read that they should be fed until the crop is 3/4 full, or until the baby's body weight has increased 10%.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jalvbau93 said:


> Thank you so much, I hope he turns out okay...



Can you post a picture of the front of him so we can have a look at the crop?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes...

If the Criop has been injured and 'stretched', it had been injured and stretched.

If it has not, it has not.

What else could one say for Pete's sake?


We have no images, and not much for a description.


Ohhhhhhhhhhh...it never ends, does it...


...sigh...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

No, Phil...it never does.


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## Seijun (Apr 14, 2010)

Jalvbau93 said:


> Erm...I'm afraid I'm a novice and I can't really tell if his crop is stretched. It is soft though, and is a sort of pouch right now, with the seeds at the bottom of it. Is there anything i can do though?


I couldn't find and pictures of a stretched crop nor have I ever experienced it, but it's my understanding that on a stretched crop, there will be a fold at the base of the crop when the crop is empty. On a healthy bird with an empty crop, the outer contour of the bird's chest should be smooth, like so:










See how the very outer line is more or less strait as it travels off the breastbone, over the crop, and up the neck? Well on a bird with a stretched crop, there will be a fold at the bottom of the crop which will hang down over the breastbone (so the outer contour of the crop will look like a backwards "j").


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Open up this link and look at the baby teal in the right picture...the one in the middle is clearly showing a full crop.

http://www.cockatielcottage.net/feeding.html


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## babydove102 (May 2, 2010)

*sick baby dove*

Hello,
i have a baby dove that is 7 days old that seems sick and the parents refuse to sit on him and he's breathing heavy and im not sure on what is the matter with him. he was fine this morning its parents feed him and now they wont sit on him? Can someone help?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Applesauce for human babies will work just fine. No mineral oil, please.

If you get the crop lifted up, the crop should empty just fine. If it's stretced out and you don't lift it...it won't empty and the baby may get a bacterial infection from the food rotting.
Are the few seeds the only thing left in the crop or is there formula as well?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

babydove102 said:


> Hello,
> i have a baby dove that is 7 days old that seems sick and the parents refuse to sit on him and he's breathing heavy and im not sure on what is the matter with him. he was fine this morning its parents feed him and now they wont sit on him? Can someone help?


The parents stop sitting on baby doves at that age.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Picture of a crop bra on a young chicken...

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv242/Shaggys-Girl/Chickens/P1030156.jpg


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

What does tiny bit of runny formula mean...can you convert that statement into an amount for me?
Do you have an ace bandage or something stretchy like a nylon that can be sacrificed and used as a crop bra?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*We Have Phones*

I'm getting in late on this .. my cell # is 949-584-6696 .. you can call if you like. You HAVE gotten all the right info here, however.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK .. I may have missed something in this thread, but it seems we have a young bird with an impacted crop. 

If so, let's be keeping this little one very warm and be getting a good amount of fluids in AND massaging the crop to try and get the mass to pass.

If this doesn't work, then it's vet time to evacuate the crop.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

We don't know for sure, Terry...it sounds more like a stretched crop.


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## Seijun (Apr 14, 2010)

ACV plus a crop bra would be a good idea, I think, if you don't know for sure which problem it is..


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Charis said:


> We don't know for sure, Terry...it sounds more like a stretched crop.


Thanks, Charis. I know you've been on this one for the whole time, but I'm going to have to leave you with it for tonight. I have a severely injured pigeon that just came in, and I need to leave to take care of it.

Thank you and thanks to all our members who are always here to help. Best of luck with this precious one.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jalvbau93 said:


> Again...I am sorry to all.
> 
> Right now, the chick has a crop bra made of some soft cotton fabric that I found.
> I've given him some (about 4cc) very diluted Kaytee mix (about 4 parts water)
> ...



send me a private message with your phone and I will call you, if it's ok with your mother. Might be easier for me to explain.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jalvbau93,



Here is an image of a juvenile Dove with a full Crop 





A properly full Crop is merely protuberant slightly, and, rounded, with no suggestion of sagging.


Was your young Dove's Crop simply protuberant and rounded? Or, was it 'sagging'?



Phil
Lv


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

You are doing a great job with this bird--you should be proud of yourself. All of us here learn by doing, that is how we get our experience. Keep up the good work, and I wish you the best of luck!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jalvbau93 said:


> Hello again everyone! Charis, I'm sorry I logged off before I could see that message, but it probably would have upset my mom anyway.
> 
> GOOD NEWS!
> 
> ...


That's great. You really don't need the vinegar anymore, in my opinion. I'm glad the crop bra worked.
My message to you still stands...anytime.


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## Seijun (Apr 14, 2010)

I can't speak for the pij's that have successfully raised chicks before only to abandon one out of nowhere many broods later, but I know its not at all uncommon for first time parents to abandon chicks or eggs. They just don't know what they are supposed to be doing yet. Unlike people, bird's cant research baby care before hand or even after the fact. The egg pops out and its up to the bird's instinct to guide it. It can take a few tries before the parents both work out how to successfully hatch the egg and raise the chick all the way. And when they do abandon a chick or egg, I don't think they feel any remorse or sorrow over it like a human. I imagine from the bird's point of view, the thought pattern is something like "well, I feel like I should be doing _something_ with this thing, but I can't for the life of me think what. Oh well. Hey, I'm hungry!" *bird flies off*


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