# My Diamond Dove lost his mate (long story)



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Hello,
I am very new to the forums here and am in need of some advice. I have had a pair of Diamond Doves for 2 years(Ebb and Flo), they were both under 1 year when I got them and seemed quite bonded with each other. I had assumed that I had a male and female based on breeder info, other diamond dove owner info, as well as behavior between the two (the "female"- very calm, easy to handle, the "male" - skiddish, more vocal) I have had no eggs, no nesting behavior, and no mating rituals between the two in the 2 years I have had them. 

(sorry this may be lengthy I am all about being descriptive)

Recently my female, Flo, had been having some problems. Several times, I would find her at the bottom of the cage, weak, cold, very very lethargic. I work for a veterinary hospital which deals with exotics and was able to monitor her weight, give her injections, tube feed her, and have a fecal and gram stain run. Results from the fecal and gram stain were always normal, she was never found to be overly thin (she hoovered around 25-28g) and with tube feeding, warmth, monitoring for a few days, and separation she always maintain her weight, began eating on her own again without needing supplemental tube feeding, and return to normal. I would then put her back with her mate where she would resume normal activity. This has happened 3 times since Oct. 

However, she did not make this last episode. I found her dead this morning when I woke to feed her again. I am heartbroken. Each time these episodes occurred we could never determine what was wrong with her, she checked out fine with her exams and diagnostics), and every time she bounced back in just a days time. (however I kept her separate from her mate for monitoring for 2-3 days additional to make sure she was maintaining weight and eating on her own). Flo always had proper access to food (in their cage cage there are 3 food bowls, 2 spray millet, and two water bottles. After the first episode I upped the amount of food bowls from 2 small to 1 large 2 small and added another water dish, I was concerned the "male", Ebb was hogging food) I never had any form of blood work run because of her condition and size (I am not a fan of drawing blood on very small breeds of birds). 

Now while I am very heartbroken over this, I am not trying to find an answer as to why this happened, my guess is she had some genetic problem and wasn't meant to live long. What I really want to know is what should I do with Ebb? Each time he has been separated from his mate he seemed to be depressed. His appetite didn't wain but he stopped cooing until his mate was returned. Ebb is my coo'er, he will coo every day, and even more so when his mate would respond back to him (which Flo almost always did) 
They never did breed and the never did nest (no matter what materials I offered for them).

So my question to you all is, do I wait and see if Ebb will adjust without a new partner? or should I seek a new mate for Ebb? Being that he is only 2 and so nervous, I am so worried he will become very depressed and begin to decline. My other concern is sex. Since my pair never mated or showed signs of mating I started to think I had two females. Should I get over my fears and try a DNA test on Ebb? (we only have blood DNA testing available through my work). I know eye ring is an indication of sex and Ebb's was always larger than Flo's but not so large in comparison to some other males. 

I wish I could ask these kinds of questions at work, but honestly besides me and two other employees (who each have a single diamond dove, neither have ever been bonded to another dove before) we don't see diamond doves at work. So there isn't much knowledge in the way of behavior. 










Left to Right: Flo and Ebb
I wish I had better pictures of them but with Ebb being so skiddish, I didn't feel right startling him with the camera all the time. This is a photo taken shortly after I got them.









Flo. RIP

Thanks for reading my super long story, any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I would just get a natural colored hen so that you know you won't have fighting. (Then if your current bird is truly just a male with a rather small eye ring you'll be safe, and if it's a hen you'll also be safe. All of my diamonds are hens.  )

Also, you can get a DNA test on feathers too. Though with such a small bird I would still be hesitant. 

Not sure why your other bird died. It is so hard to tell with one so small. Did they ever check for respiratory problems? Also--you don't have any scented candles/plug-it-ins/etc right? Sometimes those kill fairly quickly with little explanation. Oh, and overheating teflon pans? Bug spray? Anything that might be an environmental killer rather than a disease one? On the other hand--it may just be genetic or some underlying illness like cancer.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

http://www.avianbiotech.com/SexingCenter.htm

these guys do feather sexing

Oh, and have you tried finch nesting cotton in the nest? You have to watch that it doesn't get tangled on their toes, but my diamonds love it.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks for the info on sexing. I am going to double check at my work to see if any of the places we deal with offer feather sexing, as far as I remember they have always had blood sexing but that may have changed.

I am still on the fence about getting Ebb and new companion. I think for now I am going to monitor his behavior and see how he does. I know sometimes it can be hard to bond them with a new mate. 

As for the reason Flo died- As I said before, every time she had this issue her physical exams were normal as well as her gram stains. I never have candles in the same room as the birds and most recently have switched to just a wax warmer and soy based wax, working at the vet clinic I am very careful what my birds are exposed to at home with any form of aerosol and I do not own teflon pans. I did however decide to have the vet at my work do a necropsy and we discovered that her pancreas was very irritated and red and that her intestines were not a normal color nor did they have a normal appearance. Without lots of pricey histopaths I can't be for certain the exact cause but I now know she has some sort of organ defect or issue which caused her past problems and ultimately her death.

I have never been a fan of small fibers for nesting materials, especially with birds that are so small and known to be messy bottom dwellers. Seeing so many birds have fibers wrapped around their toes and ultimately losing those toes because of it, I just always stick to larger nesting materials. I tried shredded paper of various size and type, hay, torn paper towel, torn tissue, they never touched any of it. But I guess now I don't have to worry much about that anymore. 

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> Thanks for the info on sexing. I am going to double check at my work to see if any of the places we deal with offer feather sexing, as far as I remember they have always had blood sexing but that may have changed.
> 
> I am still on the fence about getting Ebb and new companion. I think for now I am going to monitor his behavior and see how he does. I know sometimes it can be hard to bond them with a new mate.
> 
> ...


About the companion--unless you are home all day, it would probably by in Ebb's best interest to have another dove in the cage. I tried to have a single bird for a time and found that he became rather depressed. It does take time and effort to pair birds at times, but with doves they usually will pair up for you eventually (if not very quickly!) I have had much better luck introducing new diamond doves than I have had with ringneck doves. Diamonds are more timid/less aggressive than their relatives. 
Anyway, I found that my single bird only flourished when he had a companion hen. Now they are inseparable. 

I have not found any other fiber that the diamonds like. They reject any size pine needle (the ringnecks' favorite), any hay, any paper bedding, etc. (In the last several months I have not been giving them the finch cotton either, though. I do agree that it is a risk.) 
I have found that some diamonds enjoy those fuzzy tents that they make for parrots. My four diamonds have a cockatiel sized one that the ringneck doves rejected. On chillier nights the older two hens like to sit either on top of the tent or inside it. 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751034

Be sure not to get a red fuzzy tent if you do try it. Some doves are terrified of the color red, theoretically because they think the object is covered in blood. My diamonds have a forest green tent.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Oh, and I forgot to explain the logic behind getting a natural colored hen. With the blue diamonds you can tell not only by the eye, but also by color. Hens are a bit more chocolatey.  Cocks are more blue/silvery.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks so much. I am going to keep my eye out for a hen. (any one know southeastern MI breeders?) 

At one point I had a green tent for them and they never went near it. The most action that tent got was their droppings. I have heard some birds like coconut fibers, I've been trying to get a hold of those for awhile.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

This is a good place to buy, but he's in Georgia.... http://www.diamonddovebreeder.com/sale.html Might be worth it to see if he'll ship come Spring.

It's too bad you don't live in NE--I bet the lady at the parrot rescue still has some diamonds needing homes. 

Well, if all else fails, they would definitely enjoy a mix of really really fat perches and really twiggy ones in their cage (so long as it doesn't mess up flight space.) My diamonds also enjoy cockatiel-sized swings. XD (They have a finch sized one, but they don't like it as much. I think they just really enjoy swinging so far.)


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Yep--it looks like James Kell ships: http://www.dovepage.com/buy/james-kell/index.html (Same guy I referenced above, but on dovepage. I trust dovepage to show only the best breeders. They've only had 4 on the list for as long as I've known on that site.)


----------



## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

kCLVT said:


> Thanks so much. I am going to keep my eye out for a hen. (any one know southeastern MI breeders?)
> 
> At one point I had a green tent for them and they never went near it. The most action that tent got was their droppings. I have heard some birds like coconut fibers, I've been trying to get a hold of those for awhile.


You may find something local here...
http://detroit.ebayclassifieds.com/birds/?q=diamond+doves&catId=100135&output=gallery

My Diamond Doves love the needles from the White Pines. They are just the right size in length and soft enough to bend in a nice circle in their canary nests. The White Pines shed their needles in the fall. I pick up bag fulls from under the trees for my doves and finches. 

Dawn


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Doves1111 said:


> You may find something local here...
> http://detroit.ebayclassifieds.com/birds/?q=diamond+doves&catId=100135&output=gallery
> 
> My Diamond Doves love the needles from the White Pines. They are just the right size in length and soft enough to bend in a nice circle in their canary nests. The White Pines shed their needles in the fall. I pick up bag fulls from under the trees for my doves and finches.
> ...


I'll have to look for that kind of pine tree around here. I've never been able to find anything small enough that wasn't too sticky or that they just plain didn't like. lol


----------



## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

They look like this in the summer...
http://www.indianachristmastree.com/MainGraphics/branches/WhitePine.jpg

And this in the fall...
http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/info/files/images/plant-disease/218/244.jpg

The needles are under the trees like a carpet...

Dawn


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Doves1111 said:


> They look like this in the summer...
> http://www.indianachristmastree.com/MainGraphics/branches/WhitePine.jpg
> 
> And this in the fall...
> ...


Ohh pretty!  I haven't seen any quite like that around here, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> This is a good place to buy, but he's in Georgia.... http://www.diamonddovebreeder.com/sale.html Might be worth it to see if he'll ship come Spring.
> 
> It's too bad you don't live in NE--I bet the lady at the parrot rescue still has some diamonds needing homes.
> 
> Well, if all else fails, they would definitely enjoy a mix of really really fat perches and really twiggy ones in their cage (so long as it doesn't mess up flight space.) My diamonds also enjoy cockatiel-sized swings. XD (They have a finch sized one, but they don't like it as much. I think they just really enjoy swinging so far.)


I think my first step is going to look into feather sexing Ebb for starters before I look for a new companion. Thanks for all the great info! I also plan on checking the local rescues for any doves needing homes, I looked into a few but so far no luck. There is a local pet store that has a few for sale 2 are obviously male but the other 2 it's tough to say. 



Doves1111 said:


> You may find something local here...
> http://detroit.ebayclassifieds.com/birds/?q=diamond+doves&catId=100135&output=gallery
> 
> My Diamond Doves love the needles from the White Pines. They are just the right size in length and soft enough to bend in a nice circle in their canary nests. The White Pines shed their needles in the fall. I pick up bag fulls from under the trees for my doves and finches.
> ...


Thanks for the link and info! I will check it out!


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> I think my first step is going to look into feather sexing Ebb for starters before I look for a new companion. Thanks for all the great info! I also plan on checking the local rescues for any doves needing homes, I looked into a few but so far no luck. There is a local pet store that has a few for sale 2 are obviously male but the other 2 it's tough to say.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link and info! I will check it out!


And if you don't get a chance to sex him, you can never go wrong with a hen companion.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Well I have a DNA test in the mail and an email sent out to a local bird rescue to see if they have any doves available, so we'll see what happens. 
Ebb is still quiet and appears to be eating millet, I will be closely monitoring his weight and keeping a close eye on him.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> Well I have a DNA test in the mail and an email sent out to a local bird rescue to see if they have any doves available, so we'll see what happens.
> Ebb is still quiet and appears to be eating millet, I will be closely monitoring his weight and keeping a close eye on him.


He's not just getting millet alone right? (I see everything some days, so I'm just checking bases.)

Good to be watching his weight--a bird his size can lose very quickly.


----------



## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

LMAOOOOOOOO @ Miss/Mrs./Ms. Libis

hens r more chocolaty lol

its true but that was funy. 

I got a grey diamond dove male. no white color on the tail everything is grey. he does feel lonely n coos too but it helps him 2 stay chirpy n alerty when he is around the pigeons n doves. 

Place a miror while a new mate comes on bord.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

pigiesNdovies said:


> LMAOOOOOOOO @ Miss/Mrs./Ms. Libis
> 
> hens r more chocolaty lol
> 
> ...


lol Miss for now  Sweetheart and I are plotting though. 

Chocolate is one of the most important things in the world you know? The more chocolate references I can make, the better lol!

Remember--no matter what his mate--a hen will always work!


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> He's not just getting millet alone right? (I see everything some days, so I'm just checking bases.)
> 
> Good to be watching his weight--a bird his size can lose very quickly.


I am not home all day so I cant be 100% sure if hes just eating millet alone, but his weight is holding. Not a lot is missing from his food dishes (he has a mixed diet of seeds, pellets, egg, dried veggies) But then again I am used to watching two birds eat. But like I said so far his weight is holding. He is still very quiet. If I have to I can tube feed him if he begins to drop in weight. 
I am still seeking a mate for him but so far I have been unable to find any Diamond Doves nearby.


----------



## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

Poops I did it again
Try playing youtube clips n make a song file while a mirror is near him so he thinks he got company


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> I am not home all day so I cant be 100% sure if hes just eating millet alone, but his weight is holding. Not a lot is missing from his food dishes (he has a mixed diet of seeds, pellets, egg, dried veggies) But then again I am used to watching two birds eat. But like I said so far his weight is holding. He is still very quiet. If I have to I can tube feed him if he begins to drop in weight.
> I am still seeking a mate for him but so far I have been unable to find any Diamond Doves nearby.


Careful how much egg you give--doves are very much seed eaters and you don't wanna overdo the protien. Especially since he's a boy. 

(What's worked fantastically for me is Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro finch, and in another bowl Kaytee Hi Cal grit.) 

Sometimes diamonds are hard to find.

Can you check with your local zoo? Ours seems to always have lots of them b/c they have an Australian small birds aviary in the Australian desert part of their giant desert exhibit. Sometimes you can get a zoo to adopt out legal animals if they have too many of something or a bird that isn't working in their flock. I've seen ours adopt out (pairs of) bully sugar gliders (who bullied the others in a team) in this way.


----------



## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

well gona logg off now cuz my eyes hurt n my laptop keeps going back to bright lighting. the dove is sleepin n just heard it do an alarm coo while typing cuz its near the livin room glass wall n feral cats r wonderin near .....
its cold outside n i got lots of blankets n ready 2 watch a haunting(ghost paranormal epidsode on discovery en espanol)

Nite all!!!


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

pigiesNdovies said:


> well gona logg off now cuz my eyes hurt n my laptop keeps going back to bright lighting. the dove is sleepin n just heard it do an alarm coo while typing cuz its near the livin room glass wall n feral cats r wonderin near .....
> its cold outside n i got lots of blankets n ready 2 watch a haunting(ghost paranormal epidsode on discovery en espanol)
> 
> Nite all!!!


g'night. 

Btw--we're looking for diamonds in Michigan, correct? because that's where I'm searching the web


----------



## Pigeonfriends (Jan 19, 2012)

Send the dead body to the VET i am curious what's happened to him.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> Careful how much egg you give--doves are very much seed eaters and you don't wanna overdo the protien. Especially since he's a boy.
> 
> (What's worked fantastically for me is Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro finch, and in another bowl Kaytee Hi Cal grit.)
> 
> ...


His food mix is majority Zupreem fruit and natural pellets then a small mix of grit, dried greens, seeds and small amount quiko classic egg supplement. Also fresh veggies on occasion.

They never ate the grit alone, I have always had to mix it with their food to get them to eat it. 

The local zoo here won't deal with adoptions and honestly, I don't even think they have any Doves there.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> His food mix is majority Zupreem fruit and natural pellets then a small mix of grit, dried greens, seeds and small amount quiko classic egg supplement. Also fresh veggies on occasion.
> 
> They never ate the grit alone, I have always had to mix it with their food to get them to eat it.
> 
> The local zoo here won't deal with adoptions and honestly, I don't even think they have any Doves there.


Why zupreem fruit? Most people feed them like finches because in the wild they forage for mostly the same things. If there's a good reason, I'll be sure to add more fruit to my diamonds' diets too--it just has not shown up much in my research as a main part of their diet. 

Weird that they won't eat the grit. Mine eat it slowly, but still as needed. 

Please see the PM I sent you! I think I found something


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> Why zupreem fruit? Most people feed them like finches because in the wild they forage for mostly the same things. If there's a good reason, I'll be sure to add more fruit to my diamonds' diets too--it just has not shown up much in my research as a main part of their diet.
> 
> Weird that they won't eat the grit. Mine eat it slowly, but still as needed.
> 
> Please see the PM I sent you! I think I found something


It's the Fruit blend pellet diet I feed them which I mix half and half with the Natural pellet(the fruit blend diet contains fresh ground fruit, obviously, and it smells good too!), when I first offered the fruit they LOVED it. Pellet diets are what we recommend in clinic because they are healthier and more balanced than offering just seeds alone (which can cause fatty liver disease and obesity). I have read everywhere that the general diet for Diamond Doves is seeds but I work with several women who have had diamond doves (one who used to breed until she lost her breeding pair) and all of them feed pellets and offer small amount of seeds (mostly as a treat) and they have doves over 10 yrs of age with no problems. 

Thanks for the PM I will definitely check that out!


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Aldella Doves Breeder
Breeder Of Ringneck Doves And White Doves And Diamond Doves Email: [email protected]. Det, MI.

It's A Small World
Handfed babies and breeder birds
Offering for sale handfed baby Cockatiels and Quakers. Also a big selection of baby Lovebirds: Pieds, Lutionos, Blue Black Masked and Fischers. Many types of Finches: Pied, Fawn, Crested and Black Cheek Zebras and Societies, Java Finches . Canaries! All types of Parakeets. Diamond and Ringneck Doves. Email: [email protected]. Wallace, MI

Nature Hutch - ships
Breeder of Common-Crested-Diamond Doves & Finches in Michigan
Specializing in Common Frosty and Pied; Crested White & Pied; Cinnamon and Blue White Tail Diamonds. Finches are on the way very soon; Bronze Wing Mannikins. All birds banded w/pedigree paper. ADA registered member. Email for availability or preorder. Will ship USA via USPS only, your expense. Email: [email protected]. Traverse City, MI

Teds Parrot Place
Parrots Raised In A Home For A Home
Consider owning a Parrot as a pet. Parrots are becoming the most popular pets in America. Our Nationwide Organization Raises All Species of Macaws, Cockatoos, Amazons and Greys. We also raise smaller birds: Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Sun Conures, Green Cheeked Conures, Quakers, Diamond Doves. Email: [email protected]. Howell, MI


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> It's the Fruit blend pellet diet I feed them which I mix half and half with the Natural pellet(the fruit blend diet contains fresh ground fruit, obviously, and it smells good too!), when I first offered the fruit they LOVED it. Pellet diets are what we recommend in clinic because they are healthier and more balanced than offering just seeds alone (which can cause fatty liver disease and obesity). I have read everywhere that the general diet for Diamond Doves is seeds but I work with several women who have had diamond doves (one who used to breed until she lost her breeding pair) and all of them feed pellets and offer small amount of seeds (mostly as a treat) and they have doves over 10 yrs of age with no problems.
> 
> Thanks for the PM I will definitely check that out!


Mine have been doing well on a half seed half pellet diet that is very colorful. 

I understand why feed pellets--I would feed all pellets, but to me they get bored with it. What I don't get is the high fruit content. Why so much fruit when everything I read says they're a seed bird? I've found that much fresh fruit makes my doves have loose stools. What are the benefits/problems with having such a fruit based pellet rather than a seed based pellet?

From everything I've read--fruit is only a snack food and they need the basis of their diet to be seed or seed-based pellet. So maybe this is why he will only eat the millet.

http://shop.pollysgeneralstore.com/product.sc?productId=16


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> Mine have been doing well on a half seed half pellet diet that is very colorful.
> 
> I understand why feed pellets--I would feed all pellets, but to me they get bored with it. What I don't get is the high fruit content. Why so much fruit when everything I read says they're a seed bird? I've found that much fresh fruit makes my doves have loose stools. What are the benefits/problems with having such a fruit based pellet rather than a seed based pellet?
> 
> From everything I've read--fruit is only a snack food and they need the basis of their diet to be seed or seed-based pellet. So maybe this is why he will only eat the millet.


I am not really well versed in diets but if I had to guess it would be the vitamins and minerals found in fruit, I mean they recommend offering fresh fruits and veggies and getting that benefit in pelleted diet without having all the mess would be easier is my guess. It is a balanced diet so I don't think it would be too much fruit. I offer it for variety and because my birds loved it, they have never had any loose stools because of it. (then again they never did with fresh either)
I see lots of birds at the clinic that are on the zupreem fruit diet and are perfectly healthy.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> I am not really well versed in diets but if I had to guess it would be the vitamins and minerals found in fruit, I mean they recommend offering fresh fruits and veggies and getting that benefit in pelleted diet without having all the mess would be easier is my guess. It is a balanced diet so I don't think it would be too much fruit. I offer it for variety and because my birds loved it, they have never had any loose stools because of it. (then again they never did with fresh either)
> I see lots of birds at the clinic that are on the zupreem fruit diet and are perfectly healthy.


Ok, I've just never seen anything but fruit doves put on a fruit diet. I'm going to start asking around with more people and see what they think too. Maybe my birds' diet will get tweaked. IDK. I think having the main base of the diet be fruit might be overkill though.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> Ok, I've just never seen anything but fruit doves put on a fruit diet. I'm going to start asking around with more people and see what they think too. Maybe my birds' diet will get tweaked. IDK. I think having the main base of the diet be fruit might be overkill though.


Well like I said my dove's diet is a mix- Half natural, half fruit pellets and then the seeds, quiko, dried greens, and grit. So you wouldn't have to switch completely to a fruit based pellet diet completely. My birds just loved it so much I decided to add it to their mix.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> Well like I said my dove's diet is a mix- Half natural, half fruit pellets and then the seeds, quiko, dried greens, and grit. So you wouldn't have to switch completely to a fruit based pellet diet completely. My birds just loved it so much I decided to add it to their mix.


I wonder if you could get him to eat a little more if you added some extra nyjer, red millet, sunflower chips, and canary grass seed. It sounds like half the problem is just heartbreak though. sometimes it's really hard for them when a mate goes. 

Half still seems like a lot.

What's quiko? Is that your egg food? I still think that's too much since he's not laying eggs or feeding babies. It's not really healthy if you overdo protein or vitamins. 



Doves1111 said:


> Dove fanciers and breeders have been feeding egg food to their birds forever. There are several articles on the IDS site that refer to feeding egg food to Ringneck and Diamond Doves. A teaspoon of egg food offered to your Ringneck Dove for a treat...*a few times a week..*.is not going to overload it's kidneys. Ringneck and Diamond Dove young grow bigger and faster when the parents are offered egg food to feed to them ...than when they are offered just seed. I have been raising doves for 30 years and have seen more good than bad in feeding egg food to birds...including my doves. As in anything...just don't overdue it. If you are feeding high protein/high fat seeds like safflower, hemp, and sunflower for treats...then feed egg food very sparingly for a treat...if at all.
> 
> Dawn


I just don't think he needs this stuff every single day. 

I understand you want his diet to be perfect, I'm just worried he's getting too much extra stuff.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> Well like I said my dove's diet is a mix- Half natural, half fruit pellets and then the seeds, quiko, dried greens, and grit. So you wouldn't have to switch completely to a fruit based pellet diet completely. My birds just loved it so much I decided to add it to their mix.


which greens specifically are you drying btw? It would be interesting to know what dries best with good nutritional content.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

This is the best information I've ever had on diamond dove nutrition--just so you know where I based my ideas/my starting point (Other breeders I've talked to had similar opinions about the base diet):



> The American Dove Association recommends a mixture of 50% finch seed and 50% white millet. They will also benefit from a small pellet such as Purina's Small Bird Maintenance Diet. They also recommend treats including spray millet, corn bread, wheat bread, sweet potatoes, crumbled hard boiled eggs with shell, cottage cheese, shredded carrots, and chopped greens.
> 
> The association also recommends the use of a mixture of 80% Calcium Starter Grit and 20% granulated red fortified salt (for livestock) placed in a separate bowl. (1)


(1) Anonymous, "The American Dove Association Ringneck & Diamond Dove Care Sheet", The American Dove Association 2009 Membership and Breeders Directory, 2009, Leesburg Printing, Leesburg, Florida. p. 11


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

More possible places to find a diamond dove in MI:

Michigan Aviaries
(Most bird species)
Michigan 49264
United States
517-748-0395
[email protected]
Michigan Aviaries is a group of over 200 members, breeders, pet owners and rescuers located throughout Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. We network with one another and take owner turning birds finding them re-homes at NO cost to the adopter.

http://www.rfbirdclub.com/
Non Profit club with members throughout the tri-county area, single bird owners, or just thinking of getting a bird, families, breeders, exhibitors, all are welcome!


----------



## rasheed.rubeena (Dec 29, 2011)

As i am new to pigeons as well,I can't help you in any manner (sorry for that) but i feel really sorry for flo.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> This is the best information I've ever had on diamond dove nutrition--just so you know where I based my ideas/my starting point (Other breeders I've talked to had similar opinions about the base diet):
> 
> 
> 
> (1) Anonymous, "The American Dove Association Ringneck & Diamond Dove Care Sheet", The American Dove Association 2009 Membership and Breeders Directory, 2009, Leesburg Printing, Leesburg, Florida. p. 11


I follow the recommendations of my boss and the two other DVM's I work with that have years of avian experience when it comes to diet and health, as well as the one coworker of mine who breed Diamond Doves for years.

The amount of other items in their food is minimal. About 95% of my Dove's diet is pellets. Grit is second highest and everything else is mixed in for variety at a smaller quantity and I would safely guess that maybe a few tsp or so is consumed in a week of that. 




Pigeonfriends said:


> Send the dead body to the VET i am curious what's happened to him.


I work at a veterinary clinic and I did have my boss perform a necropsy. Ultimately she had an abnormal pancreas and intestines, and probably had organ failure which caused her death. My boss said her intestines were most certainly NOT normal.



Libis said:


> which greens specifically are you drying btw? It would be interesting to know what dries best with good nutritional content.


The dried greens I buy come in a bag that you can purchase at the pet store. 
These are the two varieties I buy when available. 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...-C881-DE11-B712-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA

http://www.petco.com/product/5454/K...-26CA-E011-B18D-001B21A69EB0&mr:referralID=NA

I order my foods through a wholesale company that my work orders from, so availability varies. 

Also thanks for the Breeder info. Michigan is where I am located. If I don't receive any good news from the rescue group I will definitely contact the a few breeders. Ebb is definitely depressed, I have yet to hear him coo since Flo has been gone. He is my loudest and most frequent coo'er so I am most concerned. His appetite does seem to be a bit better today however. 



rasheed.rubeena said:


> As i am new to pigeons as well,I can't help you in any manner (sorry for that) but i feel really sorry for flo.


Thank you for your kind comment.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm really confused. From what I'm reading, Zupreme doesn't have a fruit based formula, just some fruit-flavored pellets without much difference in nutrition from their other small bird management pellets?


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Libis said:


> I'm really confused. From what I'm reading, Zupreme doesn't have a fruit based formula, just some fruit-flavored pellets without much difference in nutrition from their other small bird management pellets?


http://www.zupreem.com/our-food/birds/fruitblend™-flavor-premium-daily-bird-food

This diet contains fresh ground fruit as well as other vitamins and minerals for a well balanced diet. It also has an appealing aroma. The natural diet also contains fruits and veggies but it also contains grains, the more you add to a formula the more things get diluted out. The natural diet also doesn't have a real scent to it and isn't a "fun" color. Sometimes diets are manufactured because the shape and color appeals to the owners as well as the pet. But it's really all the birds preference. I have clients who were unable to get their birds to eat pellets until they tried the fruit pellets. I offer it to my Dove because he enjoys it, 9 times out of 10 he will pick out the fruit blend zupreem before the natural and even before all of the other things added to his food.


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> http://www.zupreem.com/our-food/birds/fruitblend™-flavor-premium-daily-bird-food
> 
> This diet contains fresh ground fruit as well as other vitamins and minerals for a well balanced diet. It also has an appealing aroma. The natural diet also contains fruits and veggies but it also contains grains, the more you add to a formula the more things get diluted out. The natural diet also doesn't have a real scent to it and isn't a "fun" color. Sometimes diets are manufactured because the shape and color appeals to the owners as well as the pet. But it's really all the birds preference. I have clients who were unable to get their birds to eat pellets until they tried the fruit pellets. I offer it to my Dove because he enjoys it, 9 times out of 10 he will pick out the fruit blend zupreem before the natural and even before all of the other things added to his food.


Looking at the protein etc in that mix, it looks decent. I might look into mixing small amounts of it into my diamond mix and see how they look (I have some very elderly rescue birds living with my 2 year olds who I have to be careful changing things on.)


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> ...Ebb is definitely depressed, I have yet to hear him coo since Flo has been gone. He is my loudest and most frequent coo'er so I am most concerned. His appetite does seem to be a bit better today however. ...


Some doves like grapes (don't feed much--this is the fastest fruit ever to make messy poops) I usually give my diamonds 1/4th red grape chopped fine to each pair of birds. It gets a bit tedious, and only some of them like it--but the ones who do devour it. Maybe this would help cheer him up just a little? 

Oh, and totally sing Frank Sinatra and other crooning gentle type music to him. My doveys love gentle singing.


----------



## kCLVT (Jan 16, 2012)

Well it turns out Ebb is a girl! 
She seems to be adjusting well without a mate right now, her appetite has perked up and she is cooing like normal again. I may revisit the idea of getting her a mate later on once things calm down around here. I am 8 months pregnant and trying to get my house in order for my new addition. Thank you all for your help and suggestions!


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

kCLVT said:


> Well it turns out Ebb is a girl!
> She seems to be adjusting well without a mate right now, her appetite has perked up and she is cooing like normal again. I may revisit the idea of getting her a mate later on once things calm down around here. I am 8 months pregnant and trying to get my house in order for my new addition. Thank you all for your help and suggestions!


Congrats on your new addition!

Also, it's good that Ebb is a hen. This'll help you out a lot if you decide to get her another hen as a companion. (Thus less work for you pulling eggs, taking care of possible oops baby doves, etc.)


----------

