# Food?



## KaylaElizabeth (Sep 6, 2008)

So I was just wondering what everyone feeds their pet pigeons and where they buy the food at? I've been having trouble locating a brand or a place.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I get my feed at the local feed store..they order it for me...they are a southernstates store and carry the FM brown's feed...where do you live?...if you can locate a feed store or tractor supply they may be able to order something for you...there is purina and others that have pigeon feed...if you only have a few pigeons petsmart carries a dove mix in the wild bird section and you can add goodies to it, also Harrison's high potency fine is a good food but pricey..I mix it in the seed for my breeders and babies. also for the purina you could try to filnd a purina dealer in your area on their site online. also if you want to mix your own, wild bird stores may carry bulk seeds you can buy and mix your own...good luck


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

I feed our house pigeons the same feed that we feed our loft pigeons, a simple pigeon feed. I purchase it at one of our feed stores, you should be able to find it or they can order it for you at any feed store. 
Or you can mix your own if you only have a one or two birds.


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## pigeonsheep (Oct 6, 2008)

hehe like spirit wings said, petsmart for me
i feed mine this mix for now








put in a blender with whole wheat bread...
i'm going to try to mix in some carrots as well later


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

pigeonsheep said:


> hehe like spirit wings said, petsmart for me
> i feed mine this mix for now
> 
> 
> ...



Does that mix have the big kernals of corn in it ? and the big peas? 

I can't get any dove seed mix and the doves hate the mix I make for them and waste 3/4 of the pigeon mix. Picky little buggers!


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## pigeonsheep (Oct 6, 2008)

EgypSwiftLady said:


> Does that mix have the big kernals of corn in it ? and the big peas?
> 
> I can't get any dove seed mix and the doves hate the mix I make for them and waste 3/4 of the pigeon mix. Picky little buggers!


it has white millet, oat, groats, milo, red millet, split green peas, cracked corn, canary grass seed, safflower seed, wheat, dehulled soybean meal, corn gluten meal, calcium carbonate, ground oyster shell, ground wheat, and etc, those are the main ones...sounds yummy to me! maybe that's why he can't stop eating -_-; most of the seeds are small but the peas and corn and safflower stand out by the naked eye


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

EgypSwiftLady said:


> Does that mix have the big kernals of corn in it ? and the big peas?
> 
> I can't get any dove seed mix and the doves hate the mix I make for them and waste 3/4 of the pigeon mix. Picky little buggers!


They will and can eat the leftovers, just don't overfeed and leave the leftovers, when they get hungry they will eat it. add more feed when they empty......i supplement with a fine pellet from Harrison's and they would not pick that first, but when i left it in the dish and did not give more seed they ate it, which is healthier for them. otherwise they would be living on safflower seeds which is their fav, but that would not be very healthy for them...it would be like us eating donuts all the time.....I wish


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## pigeonsheep (Oct 6, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> They will and can eat the leftovers, just don't overfeed and leave the leftovers, when they get hungry they will eat it. add more feed when they empty......i supplement with a fine pellet from Harrison's and they would not pick that first, but when i left it in the dish and did not give more seed they ate it, which is healthier for them. otherwise they would be living on safflower seeds which is their fav, but that would not be very healthy for them...it would be like us eating donuts all the time.....I wish


ahhhh donuts  and yes mine eats it ALL, time to mix in some yucky fresh vegies


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Try broccolli. Mine treats it like an enemy. Glacier fights the broccoli and then eats it.


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## KaylaElizabeth (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks guys! I tried the broccoli and he loved it. I think I'm going to order some Vita Dove and Pigeon Formula online.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I feed my pet/house pigeon Kaytee Supreem Dove Mix. I purchase it at PETCO. It is aroung $6.00 per bag. I like it because it has a high protein count, but also it has the added B12 & D vitamins.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> They will and can eat the leftovers, just don't overfeed and leave the leftovers, when they get hungry they will eat it. add more feed when they empty......i supplement with a fine pellet from Harrison's and they would not pick that first, but when i left it in the dish and did not give more seed they ate it, which is healthier for them. otherwise they would be living on safflower seeds which is their fav, but that would not be very healthy for them...it would be like us eating donuts all the time.....I wish



The left overs from the pigeons are fed to the wild birds and the chickens, they now expect their meals from us and wouldn't want to stop their food supply.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> They will and can eat the leftovers, just don't overfeed and leave the leftovers, when they get hungry they will eat it. add more feed when they empty......i supplement with a fine pellet from Harrison's and they would not pick that first, but when i left it in the dish and did not give more seed they ate it, which is healthier for them. otherwise they would be living on safflower seeds which is their fav, but that would not be very healthy for them...it would be like us eating donuts all the time.....I wish



I could leave the left overs for a month with my doves and they refuse to eat it 

I know I spoil many of the animals here  but since they are mostly all rescues and because of the mistreatment they had before I feel they deserve it.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

lwerden said:


> I feed my pet/house pigeon Kaytee Supreem Dove Mix. I purchase it at PETCO. It is aroung $6.00 per bag. I like it because it has a high protein count, but also it has the added B12 & D vitamins.



Thats what I was feeding earlier this summer, but I end up having to buy 3-4 bags at a time at $7.99 a each for such a small amount. I wish they had a larger bag... but Petco won't order any larger for me


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You could probably find a very comparable pigeon mix at a feed store that would come in 50 pound bags. 

Terry


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

i'm flummoxed on the food thing too. now that i've got freya, the wee feral that had the broken wing, i've been talking to a rehabber in NYC, and she is totally against any pelleted food, even for parrots. 

now everything i've ever learned was that all seed diets are BAD BAD BAD for birds, they'll pick out only what they want, and not eat what's good for them. i've been feeding my parrots roudybush, which is a well respected pelleted food. they of course get fruits, veggies, etc. 

now comes the pigeons, and i bought a pigeon mix, with cracked corn in it, which she says is a giant no no, for starters. 

i really would prefer that ALL of my birds, parrot and pigeon alike , eat roudybush, and then get things added to that. do you know how many differing opinions there are on seed versus a pelleted diet out there??? my eyeballs hurt! i don't know what is the , i mean THE very best thing to do.

i've got a call in to the genius avian vet out here, and hopefully they can help, but what do you guys think? 

i'm convinced that if they all ate pelleted they would all be healthier. she was of the exact opposite opinion, and was so adamant about it, and knows so much more about pigeons than i do, i'm worried that maybe i've been misinformed all these years?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, pigeons like seeds and grain. I don't think there is a thing in the world wrong with feeding them a seed based diet. I also have no problem with a pellet based diet, but you should be sure that the nutritional content is right for a pigeon as opposed to a hookbill. JMO ..

Here's a couple of links for your poor, tired eyes!

http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/pigeon/race-feeding.html

http://birdsinwhite.com/articles/article5.html

Terry


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

well, in the interest of trying to make the new baby as happy as possible....i went to the local health food store, bought organic wheat, organic hulled barley, and organic flax seed. OH, and i bought raw, unfiltered apple cider vinegar. everybody's gonna smell like easter eggs at my house and at school~!!!

i was wandering thru nature's bin, kinda smirking, because here i am looking all health conscious, and in reality, i was only buying stuff for the birds!!!! 

me??? eat healthy? yeah, when they start making tofu spaghettios.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

lizz said:


> i'm flummoxed on the food thing too. now that i've got freya, the wee feral that had the broken wing, i've been talking to a rehabber in NYC, and she is totally against any pelleted food, even for parrots.
> 
> now everything i've ever learned was that all seed diets are BAD BAD BAD for birds, they'll pick out only what they want, and not eat what's good for them. i've been feeding my parrots roudybush, which is a well respected pelleted food. they of course get fruits, veggies, etc.
> 
> ...


 Years ago when I raised parrots I fed Roudybush and fresh foods to them and they all did great, I would give them seed once a month just to give them something fun to do, in fact the parrots that I have been able to keep in touch with are still eating Roudybush.
I personally think that a variety of foods for any bird/animal is the way to feed, much like if they were wild, it keeps them from getting bored and they tend to be happier.
I certainly wooldn't want to have to eat the same thing at every meal.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

oh, i know. even with the dogs, i switch off dry food from chicken soup, to canidae, to anything else i see in a 40 pound bag that i can afford that's high quality. except wellness. they hate wellness! 

and then i cook for them too, so that means the parrots get some, i do a crockpot of beef [we don't eat birds], spinach, some kind of pasta or brown rice, and whatever else i feel like putting in there, that's healthy. i really do think it's cheaper than adding canned food, and i KNOW it's healthier! 

my dogs never have stomach trouble and / or allergies, and i believe it has a LOT to do with a good diet. i feel the same about the birds, the roudybush is the base food, and i want to add to it, but with parrots, it's easy, pigeons, not so easy, and i don't want them to only pick out what they want and not eat what 's good for them.

and with all the 'SEED DIETS ARE BAD!!!' you get beat over the head with, it's hard for me to not believe it's bad for my pijies, too. 

i mean sure, it's cheaper, and if you have a loft of hundreds of racers, well, okay, but i only have TWO pigeons, so i don't have to buy them 'cheaper' food. at the very least, i bought human grade, organic seeds for them....

still want to know what's best for the pigeons, though.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Lizz,

Did the rehabber say why she thought pelleted food was bad for pigeons?

I have heard many avian vets state that a pelleted diet is far superior to a seed diet, but I'm not sure how much stock to put in this since I don't generally think vets are necessarily very well versed when it comes to animal nutrition. 

I guess the advantage of pellets is that they are offer "balanced nutrition" with added vitamins/minerals. But where do pellets exist in a pigeon's evolutionary diet? Seeds are what they'd eat in nature, and I think there's value in trying to replicate their natural diet. 

Personally, I've tried offering them both seeds and pellets (Harrison's "high potency fine," which is one of the formulas recommended for pigeons) and have found that they don't go for the pellets. 

Jennifer


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Lizz
About the birds not eating a balanced seed diet, it should be simple for you to measure their food needs and give only that amount so they eat it all. Having only two birds, you have complete control of what they consume. Giving them pellets is like you living on ENSURE liquid supplement and vitamins, pretty boring!! When a person has hundreds of mouths to feed, one has to do their best, but you only have two pijies.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

here's what i've got, although in 1) and 2), i think she meant more about dog food, but i don't feed anything to my dogs with any by-products. 
i'm not saying she doesn't know what she's saying, i'm just trying to get my head around all the nutritional angles, and i'm curious to know healthwise, why pelleted balanced food wouldn't be ' better'. 

all i see right away, is that pigeons might need more protein, but i could do that, by mixing something in, right? 


"I am a total non-believer in pelleted food.
1) Most contain some form of animal by-products and that means 
what ever is left that can't be fed to humans, like guts, feet, & heads. 
The guts with the organs is where the antibiotics & growth hormones 
become deposited in the food animals. I don't want that stuff in my 
pets food.
2) Most animal foods are "thickened" with gluten and a lot of 
commercial animal food producers use imported gluten from China 
and if you recall just a few months ago, dogs & cats were getting sick 
and many dying from eating commercial pet foods. I don't want that 
stuff in my pets food.
3) The USA produces more grain than most of the world so if you 
feed grain and seeds, you will get the best the world has to offer. I 
won't even feed imported fruit & veggies to my parrots. They use too 
much pesticide in other countries. I don't want that stuff in my pets 
food."

roudybush ingredients=
MAINTENANCE PELLETED FOOD
FOR SEED-EATING BIRDS

Use for pet birds year-round
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Minimum 11.0%
Crude Fat Minimum 7.0%
Crude Fiber Maximum 3.5%
Moisture Maximum 12.0%

Ingredients: Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Peanut Meal, Soy Oil,Soy Meal, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Yucca schidigen Extract,Salt, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Sodium Selenite (on Calcium Carbonate), Niacin, Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vit. A Acetate, Thiamine, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vit K), Cyanocobalamin (VitB12), Vit D3 Sup. Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Propionic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Tartaric Acid, and natural apple flavoring.


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## rainbows (Aug 19, 2008)

Your pellets are basically 1) ground CORN 2)ground WHEAT 3)PEANUT meal 4)SOY meal plus preservatives and chemical vitamins. 
How could that possibly be better nutrition than natural grain & seeds and a greater variety of them?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I also feed Kaytee Supreme from Petco, as posted by lwerden.

However, not leaving well enough alone, I also give as treats: safflower, hemp, Song Plus Health Blend, Ecotrition Grains & Greens and Kaytee Songbird mix.

Mr. Squeaks also _loves_ fresh greens. I accidently discovered this while making a salad. I dropped a piece of Romaine and he, helping me in the kitchen, snagged and gobbled it down so fast, I was amazed! So, for fun, I dropped more bits and he nailed each and every one! 

OK, what can I say? Key words: spoiled birds 

I had also tried mixing lentils and split green peas, but they did not go over well. No problem, I ATE 'em - in my homemade soups!

Have also heard that _whole_ corn kernals (as in popcorn) are better than cracked corn.

Hugs and Scritches

Shi and the gang


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

no, i have the two pigeons, a sun conure, a quaker, two black headed caiques, and a blue and gold macaw! so i'm buying roudybush in 25 pound bags at about 30 to 40 some dollars a bag. 

i don't believe in just dumping brown pellets in their bowls and that's that, i don't do that with the four dogs, either, i think that's mean!!! 

i just want to know if the roudybush would be a good base diet, that of course, i add to [the parrots eat healthier than i do!]. OR is there something specific to pigeons that would indicate a pelleted food based diet would be* not *as good for them....

i'm being a pain, i know......


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

hmmmm.....reading over the list of ingredients, now i'm gonna have to pick that apart more. 

but what about them only eating certain seeds out of whatever mix i put in their bowls? we all know they do that, so then won't that be a REALLY lacking diet? 

i just don't know anymore. i've got it on the* dog* food, but the birds....i need to get a degree in avian nutrition!


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

you know, i'm just asking for info on all sides, there's pretty much no need for the snippiness.


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## bweaz (Aug 1, 2008)

Lizz, I have parrots and pigeons, as well. I have done a lot of research about both kind of diets - it sounds like you have too. 

I have found that pigeons need a primarly grain based diet - of course, they need veggies also. I give my pigeon the Kaytee pigeon/dove mix and add: hulled barley, dried green peas, brown rice, flax seed, safflower seed, corn, red millet, buckwheat, red lentils, any other seed I can find a Whole Foods and then I sprinkle a small amount of powdered vitamins on the food - mix and serve. I do supplement with veggies when I am home at night. I also give her pigeon grit that I get from a pigeon web store.

The only thing that I have ever heard about pellets and parrots is, occasionally, since pellets are so high in protein, they will make a bird's kidneys fail. However, that is mostly in smaller birds like parakeets and cockatiels - where there tends to be a lot of inbreeding. I give my parrot both pellets and seeds. He is a sun conure and is pretty darn healthy. But the experts say that the most important thing you can feed a parrot is healthy human food.

I like to take that philosophy to my pigeon's food also. Sally Blanchard, a well known parrot expert, says that she thinks that pellets are, indeed, a vital food staple for parrots, but the most important thing you can do for any bird's health is give them a wide variety of food. Pigeon's won't eat as wide a variety as parrots, but I just keep offering my pigeon whatever I make for my pigeon and she eats a little here and there - I figure that is better than nothing.

I think it is great that you are asking about different kinds of pigeon food, I learn a lot by reading these threads. Also, I shop at Drs. Foster and Smith and they have the Kaytee pigeon/dove mix A TON CHEAPER than at any pet store - even with shipping. I buy my sun conure's and pigeon's food through them and I save a ton of money. I once did a price break down between pet store prices and web prices including shipping and almost always the web prices came out on top. Just a thought.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

thank you for that answer - i'm actually surprised about the fresh veggies, i did try giving trooper some shredded spinach once , when i was making the dog food, and i swear, he gave me that look like, 'what are you, kidding me??'

now that i've compared the list of ingredients between roudybush and harrison's, i can see why harrison's is so much more expensive, and i'll probably switch over to harrison's in the near future. 

i'm really glad to hear that the little pijies of mine may eat a much wider range of foods than i originally thought, and once little freya is settled and her tummy is back to normal, there's gonna be some interesting food experimenting going on. 

the parrots are good that way, they eat everything i eat [that's okay for them of course], everything the dogs eat, and then their own pellets, fruits and veggies.

seriously though, i appreciate that answer more than i can tell you!


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## Critter (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi lizz, hope you don't mind if I ask a related question on your thread. 

Which pelleted diets do you all recommend if someone chooses to go that route? I noticed that a couple of people mentioned Harrison's (new to me) and people have mentioned Roudybush (also new to me) and Purina. Are there any other brands that you'd suggest? Which ones do you think are the healthiest? Which do the pijis seem to like? And which ones seem to be more readily available?

I ask because I'm having trouble getting my piji to eat anything hard at the moment (seed or grit). The avian vet I took her to gave me some suggestions regarding transitioning her to seeds, but he also said that in her case pellets would be a good option. So I may be in the market for pellets.

Right now I have a 50 lb bag of Kaytee pigeon seed (WC) and a 5 lb bag of Kaytee Supreme Pigeon/Dove mix and a 50 lb bag of Kaytee pigeon grit all of which she refuses to touch.


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## lizz (May 3, 2008)

just from the research i did today, i can easily see the difference between harrison's and roudybush, and harrison's is the winner in that contest by FAR, which i always knew, but just not by how much. 

roudybush is supposed to be good food, and is undoubtedly much better than just about anything you can find at a pet store, harrison's is more stuff, more organic. 

here - take a peek----this is one of their formulations---

ADULT LIFETIME FINE (ALF) and SUPER FINE (ALSF)

Ingredients: *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Hulled Grey Millet, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Rice, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Sun-Dried Alfalfa, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, *Chia Seed, Calcium Carbonate, Montmorillonite Clay, *Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, *Spirulina, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.

*CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (min.) 14%, crude fat (min.) 6%, crude fiber (max.) 4.5%, moisture (max.) 10%.


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## Critter (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks lizz  I appreciate it.

I noticed some bird food on the shelf at the avain vet I went to but didn't get a chance to check it out or catch the brand. I just googled Harrison's Pigeon pellets and it looks like the same packaging. Guess I should have tried to buy some while I was there. Silly me.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

lizz said:


> just from the research i did today, i can easily see the difference between harrison's and roudybush, and harrison's is the winner in that contest by FAR, which i always knew, but just not by how much.
> 
> roudybush is supposed to be good food, and is undoubtedly much better than just about anything you can find at a pet store, harrison's is more stuff, more organic.
> 
> ...



Back when I was feeding Roudybush Harrison's wasn't even on the market. 
Now they ALL have a pelleted feed.


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