# Vision problems in doves with white in their genetics?



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

My pink ringneck dove is about 4 months old now. I thought she would grow out of the red pupils she was born with, but they are consistently maroon since she was about 1 month old. I know albinos have problems with eyesight, but this bird certainly is not albino. But she has much more trouble with her vision than my other birds. 

She runs into walls and tries to perch on lines in the wallpaper. The only thing that really helps is to make sure she stays with me or with her brother--who guides her as best he can. 

Is this a problem with anyone else's birds who have white in their genetics? Is this definitely genetic or is it possible that an eye disease is present? (Or, is this a genetic eye disease like the many genetic eye diseases in humans?) 

I know it's hard to see her eyes clearly in this image, but she has orange irises and maroon pupils.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Baby (pink) and her brother Tamaki (orange) together:


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

There are whites with colored eyes (orange, red) and whites with bull (black) eyes. The reason the pupils look kinda maroon-ish is probably just the light shining through them. Mine look like that sometimes as well - especially the babies. By chance do her eyes bulge out more than they should? Bulge-eyed doves usually develope some issues with sight. Some worse or more quickly than others. I have one bulge-eye right now and it's doing just fine. But since they stick out, they have a greater chance of getting damaged.
I'm assuming poor eyesight and blindness can be random mutations just like other animals. Could have been a problem in the egg and just didn't develop correctly. If you end up with more siblings with eyesight problems then it could be genetic.

Something that disorients pigeons/doves is PMV (as well as paratyphoid). But if she acts and seems normal otherwise then that probably isn't it.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> There are whites with colored eyes (orange, red) and whites with bull (black) eyes. The reason the pupils look kinda maroon-ish is probably just the light shining through them. Mine look like that sometimes as well - especially the babies. By chance do her eyes bulge out more than they should? Bulge-eyed doves usually develope some issues with sight. Some worse or more quickly than others. I have one bulge-eye right now and it's doing just fine. But since they stick out, they have a greater chance of getting damaged.
> I'm assuming poor eyesight and blindness can be random mutations just like other animals. Could have been a problem in the egg and just didn't develop correctly. If you end up with more siblings with eyesight problems then it could be genetic.
> 
> Something that disorients pigeons/doves is PMV (as well as paratyphoid). But if she acts and seems normal otherwise then that probably isn't it.


Are pinks supposed to have colored eyes, though? She's not actually white. I just figured the white genes that contribute to the pink coloration could have something to do with it. I thought pinks were supposed to have bull eyes.  

Also, her pupils are definitely maroon. I've compared her to her brother's black pupils in every different lighting in the house, at the vet's, and on the back porch in morning sunshine.

I always thought both of these two had funny looking eyes, but not to the extent that I've seen in pictures of birds with bulged eyes. 

I don't know, it just really worries me that she keeps flying into things. She's scared me horribly a couple of times--hitting harder than I thought her little body should be able to stand. We've been lucky, but it really worries me. I would clip her wings for safety if not for the cats (they aren't allowed in the same room as her, but you never know.)

As far as paratyphoid goes--everybody seems healthy. Good looking poops, nobody fluffed up any more than normal sleepy time fluffs, good appetites, good weights, and everybody can walk straight. Baby just seems to get really confused as to what is thin air vs what is a wall and what is a perch vs what is wallpaper.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Oh, the other question is--do antibiotics at a young age (3-4 weeks) ever contribute to vision problems? Baby had an infection when she was little and needed the meds, and I know sometimes medicines have odd side effects with young animals and people.


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## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

Technically she is a White...a White Tangerine (dw Ta//)... Your description of the eye color for your Pink sounds correct. Her eye color probably hasn't fully developed yet...it may still change. Sometimes it takes up until a year for the true eye color to show. The IDS site has a pic of the Pink's eye and color description...
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/pink.htm

I wish I had answer for you...but I don't... We had this same discussion years ago on yahoo doves-pigeon about why some Whites don't see clearly and some fly erratic...flying into walls and flying in circles and backwards. No one really had a real answer for it...just guesses. I have witnessed this several times over the years in my own flock. None of them where Albino either. They were Ivory White, Bull-Eyed White, Rosy White, and Snow White. The other day I noticed a 2 month old White Crested flying erratic and acting like it couldn't see good when it was flying. Perhaps it just because it is still so young and learning to fly. Some come out of it and learn to fly correctly...others don't. My friend has a pet 10 year old Bull-Eyed White female that flies in circles and backwards when she gets excited or when she first lets her out of her cage. Sometimes she will fly right into the wall. I would like to know the reason some Whites do this too.

Dawn


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Libis said:


> Oh, the other question is--do antibiotics at a young age (3-4 weeks) ever contribute to vision problems? Baby had an infection when she was little and needed the meds, and I know sometimes medicines have odd side effects with young animals and people.


Probably depends what you used. Baytril, for example, is not recommended for birds under 21 days old, but I believe it is the possible effect on bone formation that could be the problem there.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Doves1111 said:


> Technically she is a White...a White Tangerine (dw Ta//)... Your description of the eye color for your Pink sounds correct. Her eye color probably hasn't fully developed yet...it may still change. Sometimes it takes up until a year for the true eye color to show. The IDS site has a pic of the Pink's eye and color description...
> http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/pink.htm
> 
> I wish I had answer for you...but I don't... We had this same discussion years ago on yahoo doves-pigeon about why some Whites don't see clearly and some fly erratic...flying into walls and flying in circles and backwards. No one really had a real answer for it...just guesses. I have witnessed this several times over the years in my own flock. None of them where Albino either. They were Ivory White, Bull-Eyed White, Rosy White, and Snow White. The other day I noticed a 2 month old White Crested flying erratic and acting like it couldn't see good when it was flying. Perhaps it just because it is still so young and learning to fly. Some come out of it and learn to fly correctly...others don't. My friend has a pet 10 year old Bull-Eyed White female that flies in circles and backwards when she gets excited or when she first lets her out of her cage. Sometimes she will fly right into the wall. I would like to know the reason some Whites do this too.
> ...


K. Thanks for all of the info. It would be an interesting study to see if there is a genetic disease linked to white or simply poor vision or if it has completely different reasons for occurring. I'm just glad she has her brother to follow around, because he really looks after her.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

John_D said:


> Probably depends what you used. Baytril, for example, is not recommended for birds under 21 days old, but I believe it is the possible effect on bone formation that could be the problem there.


The vet used Metronidazole. There was debate here about whether he should have used something else, but it did help her get better.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

That is interesting, I had 5 whites.. not sure what kind of whites as there seems to be a list of them..lol.. but they never had a problem with sight. The only thing to do is be aware of it and glad she/he is in an understanding home such as yours.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> That is interesting, I had 5 whites.. not sure what kind of whites as there seems to be a list of them..lol.. but they never had a problem with sight. The only thing to do is be aware of it and glad she/he is in an understanding home such as yours.


Well, she's pink--so kind of off-white looking with pure white at the flights and on the neck ring, (Doves1111 explained it to me as a white tangerine), but I don't know that the tangerine would have anything to do with vision issues. 

Do you guys think it would be wise to clip her wings so that she doesn't fly into walls, or maybe only clip a little to slow her down so that when she hits it can't hurt her as much? My one concern if I clipped them is that there are cats in the house (not allowed in the room while the birds are out) but you never know and kitties are creative.


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## Doves1111 (Mar 5, 2005)

I wouldn't clip her wings. She is only 4 months old...give her more time and she may learn to fly better as she matures. If you clip her wings...the wing muscles won't develop and she will never be able to fly well.

Dawn


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Doves1111 said:


> I wouldn't clip her wings. She is only 4 months old...give her more time and she may learn to fly better as she matures. If you clip her wings...the wing muscles won't develop and she will never be able to fly well.
> 
> Dawn


True--I'm just scared she'll cause brain damage or damage to the spine with how hard she hits sometimes. That's the only reason I considered it.


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