# need advice egg yolk peritonitis



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

hi everyone, i just got back from the vet with a feral that was awaiting spring release.
she had been feeling down and when i checked her yesterday he abdomen was full of fluids.
we did a couple of xrays and pulled out some fluid, my vet suspected egg yolk peritonitis and i e-mailed the xrays out to tufts wildlife center and they confirmed it.
they also said it was pretty bad they couldn't see her air sacks and her lungs were being compressed by the fluid.
they thought i should euthanize, but my gut is telling me "not yet"
can this bird recover without surgery??
if she can recover will this be a chronic problem for her making a her release certain death??
i have started her on baytril and metacam.
she is in some respiratory distress but not too bad yet, i can tell she feels like crap, fluffing and wings hanging.
but she is still spunky, she hates me, lol and will coo, circle and bite me if i put my hand in near her
am i delaying the inevitable??
this a problem i have never seen in a wildbird, nor has any of the other rehabbers i have spoken with.
any advice would be appreciated 
i'll try to attach the xrays for you all to look at


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

here are the xrays


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

OMG, those rads look AWFUL!! There's so much fluid that you can't see anything. Did they drain off as much as they could?
I have not heard of any good prognosis' for egg yoke peritonitis - but don't go by me! I commend you for hanging in there with her, the poor thing 
Other than euthanasia, did the vet have any suggestions for antibiotics? I think I would bombard her with antibiotics - long term (if they didn't give you any suggestions) just to see if it would help.
I'm going to check something - so I'll be back


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I found this -
"Egg peritonitis can make your bird very sick and is difficult to treat. It has much better results if caught early. There are good treatments now around for egg peritonitis and some birds do make a full recovery. *Treatment involves* *using a diuretic like Frusemide to clear away the fluid and drugs like Milk Thistle to help the liver repair itself plus antibiotics to prevent further infection*"


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

he drained off a couple of cc's mostly to see what it was.
baytril and metacam is what is suggested for the milder cases, i'm so sad
it may be too late for her


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i'm waiting for a call back from him, i'll ask him about the frusemide


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Actually...I am using a diuretic on a rescue chicken with egg peritonitis ...Jodi, I forgot to tell you that. The problem still persists and I take her in to be drained. The time between draining is becoming more frequent.
The reason vets and rehabbers haven't seen this problem in wild birds is because if the do come down with it, hey just die and no one knows. 
I suspect there is a direct link to lack of Vitamin D.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's...furosemide.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> he drained off a couple of cc's mostly to see what it was.
> baytril and metacam is what is suggested for the milder cases, i'm so sad
> it may be too late for her


Altgirl35, I have had only one bird that had fluids accumulate in the abdomen, paracentesis was done, the removal of accumulated fluids by a larger gage syringe, and 25cc of fluids was removed. Just taking out a few cc's is not going to help much I think in removing the pressure from the internal organs. If the fluid can readily be drained, I would think it would be wise drain some more. One thing the vet will have to take into consideration is the possibility of hypovolemic shock for the bird, this can happen sometimes if too much fluid is drained at once, my vet explained to me, with my bird, he did not completly drain all the fluid for this reason.

My bird was on furosemide as well as TMP/SMX, plus metronidazole. Once the fluids were drained it was like a night and day difference in him. Hopefully by draining and aggressive antibiotic treatment there is always the possibility of recovery.

Good luck with her,

Karyn


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh thank you all sooo much!!! it's so nice to have hope for her, my gut was telling me not to euthenize her yet.
i will call the vet first thing in the morning and try to get her in right away.
now, will this be a chronic problem for her in the future???


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Dobato's information is very good and thats what my vet did as well and if the bird makes it one never knows if it will be an ongoing problem but if it happens again they can give you hormones to put a shot into the muscle of the breast and this helps to stop the bird from ovulation for new batch of eggs coming across to the oviduct tube. I had two I tried to save with my vet but it was to no avail and each time they drain the fluid they can.t drain too much because it then messes with its electrolytes and minerals and stuff like that and that in itself will kill the bird....Best wishes in trying...c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> oh thank you all sooo much!!! it's so nice to have hope for her, my gut was telling me not to euthenize her yet.
> i will call the vet first thing in the morning and try to get her in right away.
> now, *will this be a chronic problem for her in the futur*e???



More than likely so. The surgery would be the best. Did Tufts tell you what the cost would be?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> oh thank you all sooo much!!! it's so nice to have hope for her, my gut was telling me not to euthenize her yet.
> i will call the vet first thing in the morning and try to get her in right away.
> now, will this be a chronic problem for her in the future???


I am hoping she is able to recover, but at least you will know you gave it your best try if she does not. I would imagine that this being chronic would depend on what caused it in the first place, if it is bacterial in nature, there is a good chance I think that the antibiotics could solve things, if it's organ related, a determination would have to be made on her prognosis and if there is a course of treatment that could solve it. If Pidgey sees this thread, it would be good to hear what he thinks.

Karyn


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

tufts didn't say and i didn't ask, they know she is wildlife, and to bring your pet for treatment at the animal hosp is very very expensive.
i will talk to my vet about it.
the fluid he did pull out was super thick opaque and yellowish(and ya gross!), it may be hard to pull a lot out anyways


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dobato said:


> I am hoping she is able to recover, but at least you will know you gave it your best try if she does not. I would imagine that this being chronic would depend on what caused it in the first place, if it is bacterial in nature, there is a good chance I think that the antibiotics could solve things, if it's organ related, a determination would have to be made on her prognosis and if there is a course of treatment that could solve it. If Pidgey sees this thread, it would be good to hear what he thinks.
> 
> Karyn


The old eggs and infection surrounding them need to be cleaned out and the area flushed. Of course at this point there is a lot of bacteria.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

okay, i'm taking her to the vet at 11 to remove some of the fluid to buy her some time, he's going to look into the surgery and let me know the cost ect..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

GReat! Will be waiting to hear. Good luck!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's good news!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> okay, i'm taking her to the vet at 11 to remove some of the fluid to buy her some time, he's going to look into the surgery and let me know the cost ect..


Good Luck!! Will be waiting to hear also.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Fingers crossed, good luck.

Karyn


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I wish you the best with her and appreciate your desire to save her. But to be honest I've never seen egg yolk peritonitis turn out well. I have friends (devoted pet owners) who have lost birds to it and I have too, despite having the best possible vet care. If she manages to pull through this round there is a serious risk of future problems. The hormone shots aren't always effective in stopping ovulation, especially in pigeons. At least that has been my experience.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It's been my experience too...c.hert


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

okay, i'm back from the vet, he pulled 20mls of fluid out, she did well and was spunky after.
i'm warming sq fluids for her and will hopefully be able to get 6mls into her.
he gave me the furosemide but said to wait at least 24 hrs to start injections because of the shock of losing all the fluid today
don't know about the surgery yet, but i told him if we do it we should probably remove the oviduct also.
sorry to hear that birdmom, that's a scary thought, i hope i'm not putting her though too much


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh and he thought there was probably another 20 in there


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree with C. Hert and Cathy... that doesn't mean this won't be the one that does well. Jodi's gut tells her to give it her best shot and that means a lot.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

My Whitney had this years ago.
The vet did a hysterectomy on her, and flushed as much junk as he could out of the abdomen during surgery. Then she was on Baytril and Flagyl for a couple of weeks.
She is doing great 6 years later.

Reti


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> okay, i'm back from the vet, he pulled 20mls of fluid out, she did well and was spunky after.
> i'm warming sq fluids for her and will hopefully be able to get 6mls into her.
> he gave me the furosemide but said to wait at least 24 hrs to start injections because of the shock of losing all the fluid today
> don't know about the surgery yet, but i told him if we do it we should probably remove the oviduct also.
> sorry to hear that birdmom, that's a scary thought, i hope i'm not putting her though too much


Good, glad to hear things went as I was hoping they would, nice to see them perk right up after isn't it? As I mentioned before, my vet also said he left what he felt to be another 15-20cc behind.

Altgirl35, please get your vet to add the metronidazole into the mix, as with Reti's bird, I think it will give broader coverage than the Baytril alone.

Keep us posted,

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Reti said:


> My Whitney had this years ago.
> The vet did a hysterectony on her, and flushed as much junk as he could out of the abdomen during surgery. Then she was on Baytril and Flagyl for a couple of weeks.
> She is doing great 6 years later.
> 
> Reti


That's wonderful to hear. At least it gives hope.Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jodi, did you ask what the surgery would cost?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Dobato said:


> If Pidgey sees this thread, it would be good to hear what he thinks.
> 
> Karyn


Don't know. Most of mine that were similar (oviduct problems) didn't end up getting ascites (accumulation of fluid in the abdomen). I tend to treat oviduct problems with Trimethoprim/Sulfa combos these days but have been known to shotgun them, too. Ascites (if that's what this symptom is) can occur for a variety of reasons. Best of luck!

I'm always reminded of Misty's thread about Ruffles when this symptom is discussed, though:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=19598

Pidgey


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

no price yet, i forgot to tell you all that she also has signs of mbd, how i got her and 5 other birds is a long story, but they were obviously not given enough light or calcium, probably why she developed the peritonitis to begin with.
thankfully mbd is reversible


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What does mbd stand for?


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

metabolic bone disease caused by lack of sunlight vit d3 and or calcium and diet, with improper calcium phosphorus levels.
birds with mbd have thin easily breakable fragile bones, causes a host of other problems also, but with captive birds it is usually our fault.
i had to put down a baby crow last summer with it was fed an improper diet before he was brought to me, i couldn't figure out what was wrong with him until we did an xray and he had hairline fractures all over his poor little body and was suffering
here's a link about it.
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/dvms/mbd2.html
alot of people that try to keep pet squirrels have trouble with this disease because they feed them improper diets like seeds and nuts that don't have the large amounts of calcium that they require, it is a killer


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's sad. I see this so often in my job. People have pet birds and keep them in the dark. I try to tell them the importance of vitamins and sunshine, but most don't listen. Why do people get a pet, then expect that it should fit in to their environment, rather than trying to make the environment fit the animals needs? I just don't get it.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i hear ya jay...
she doesn't look good today, i may have to make a decision about her sooner, i'm starting to think it may be too late for her


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh that's too bad. I know she's kinda a special little bird to you.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

It may be too late, but it may not be, and the only way to know is by trying, which is what you are doing. It's like my vet says: "You can always euthanize them, but you can never bring them back!" (which is just one of the many reasons I like my vet!)


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

she's gone, she was really suffering this morning when i went to check on her
sux, thank you everyone for your help


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm sorry, Jodi. I wish it could have be different.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh I'm so sorry Jodi, You tried so hard. At least she's not suffering anymore, and she's free.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Altgirl35, I know her prognosis was poor, but I was hoping she was going to make it through this somehow. She is at peace now with no more pain and when you do think of her, as some small comfort, you will know in your heart you tried for her to the end.

Karyn


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry she didn't make it, Jodi. My heart goes out to you because I know how painful it is to watch them suffer and want to do anything to save them. You did your best and now she's out of pain. Sending a big hug your way.

-Cathy


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry Jodi. You tried. Sometimes we lose the battle. But at least you tried. So sorry.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

thanx it's been a bummer of a day, i hope i never see that in a bird again


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