# How can you tell the Diff?



## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Im a newbie!

*Question are asking just look for my post. If someone answer it then dont need to answer but you can leave me a comment about my coop =D*


i wonder how would you tell the diff from homer, racer, and roller?

how can some ppl tell by there age? i hear by eye but how do i know the age?

can i ask more question cause i got alot of question i want to know about pigeon? Pm me i want to ask more question about pigeon.

i own 10 homer i think. that what the guy told me so im guess i got 10 homer. =D






here is my coop.
My coop


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Just looked at your video, not bad for a starter loft! From the looks of the birds they appear to be homing pigeons, but how good or bad they are you won't know till you start training them and/or their young. Rollers typically are slightly smaller with more rounded heads. Their are several books out that may give you a better understanding of the differences. If I can't find them and get back to you perhaps some of the other on the site will be able to.


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## 2y4life (Apr 5, 2010)

Homers are quite larger than rollers. About over an inch longer and probably 4+ounces heavier. Beaks and body looks different as well.

Racers are basically specially bred homers. What you have are definitely homers with the exception of one that looks like it might be a mix-breed. Can't be too sure from the video.

Again, how good they are, I have no idea. Are they all banded? If so, what kind of bands? PM me if you wanna talk more Hmoob brother.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

The homers used for racing are called racing homers........


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

After watching your video I think you have homers. They have different beak size, shape compared to rollers. Rollers are smaller, too. In fact the adults seem to be the size of a homer squab/squeaker. Obviously they roll in the sky.

Homers and racing homers are the same. The only difference is the selection process. Racing homers were selected based on their performances. So all racing homers are homers, but not all homers are racing homers! Confuse now?!

With to respect to knowing age there are some physical properties and behavior. If the bird still squeaks you have a squeaker and they are probably no more than 2 months old. You can also look at the eye color. If you don't see the color yet, then they are still either less than 2-3 months olds (unless they have bull eyes which you see on white birds). Their neck plumage color also doesn't have that iridescent color yet. Older birds (yearling plus) seems to have the beak cere and eye cere bigger. They have iridescent neck plumage. They obviously show adult behavior like having eggs and mating rituals. Nevertheless those can appear as well at 5-6 months old pigeons.

Just ask questions and we will be happy to answer them.

Nice coop!


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank to you all for helping and answer my question. 

2y4life not all my bird have banded. just like maybe 4.

how do i use the tobacco stems for my nest?
if im gonna buy some banded, Do i put them on when they are young? (Right when they are born)


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> Thank to you all for helping and answer my question.
> 
> 2y4life not all my bird have banded. just like maybe 4.
> 
> ...



You can put the tobacco stems on the floor and the birds will build their own nests.
You want to get either AU or IF bands if you plan on racing the young off of your birds.

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-bands.html
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-loft-traps.html
http://youtu.be/KFtHSty5NUE


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

i dont think im plan to race them but will it be nice to?
will do i wanna put the band on them when they young then?

so sad today. i lost 2 egg this year. =\

First egg idk what happen to it. i saw it in the nest and after 1 and half week later it was all smash inside the nest. =\ SAD

Second egg idk too but when i took a look at it, it had a little crack (it look like it was hatching) and it was rotten inside. the baby pigeon didnt look good when i saw it. made me sad.

is there any better way i can help the egg hatch? (food drink anything)
is there a way i can train my pigeon? (adult pigeon and young)
how can i tell if it a male or female?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Pretty birds and nice loft! Yes, you have homers. Homers and racers are the same bird, the only difference being if they have been bred to race or not (some birds can home from farther distances, some faster, etc). It's like a race horse and a horse you have for fun. Same animal, different levels of skill. Not all regular horses have what it takes to win a race, but you don't know until you try them out. 
Rollers are smaller and have a different shape, mostly in their head/beak. You're gonna need another loft for your flying birds  All of those are too old to release. Unless you've had them since they were young.

You band babies at 5-7 days old. Banding birds is important even if you don't plan to participate in competitions, because if a bird gets lost and someone finds it, they can trace the band and contact you.

Make sure they have plenty of nesting material (pine needles and tobacco stems preferably) so they have a sturdy nest. That helps prevent them from getting broken or rolling out of the nest. And when the babies hatch, they will have something to cushion them.
Sounds like maybe your birds were fighting when the eggs got broken/smashed. If you notice a male that continually goes into others' nests wanting to take over, you'll want to separate him at least until the nests being disturbed are done raising. Do all of your pairs have at least one nest box and perches for the birds?
Males are more vocal and will do a lot of courtship dancing. Hens are usually pretty quiet unless someone messes with them. Then they can get rowdy and look like boys.
What kind of training are you wanting to do?


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank. i have only have 11 nest box. There no other way i can tell if they are male or female? about training idk anything that work. i hear that it harder to train the adult and it easy to train the younger pigeon. anything idea work to train.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Oh, so you mean settling them to the loft. I didn't know if you meant road training, trap training, or taming them  Yes, adult homers are not safe to attempt to resettle. I would not try to settle anything older than 5 months old. Personally, I won't fly anything over 3 months anymore. And if I'm racing the birds, 2 months old is the limit. You're better off breeding these and flying the babies, which will require little more than a week of trap training and then road training when they are flying well around the house.

All of your birds look at least 5 or 6 months old. Probably more around yearlings or older. The guy you got them from SHOULD know how old they are. Have you tried asking him?


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

that the thing i forgot to ask him. lols but some of his pigeon had band. (1)2008/(2)2009/(1)2010 that all he got on the bands but other then that all the 2 from him didnt have bands and the other 4 are mine with no bands too. Now im thinking the other 4 pigeon that are mine are wild pigeon. i think. lols how do i know if they are not wild pigeon?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> that the thing i forgot to ask him. lols but some of his pigeon had band. (1)2008/(2)2009/(1)2010 that all he got on the bands but other then that all the 2 from him didnt have bands and the other 4 are mine with no bands too. Now im thinking the other 4 pigeon that are mine are wild pigeon. i think. lols how do i know if they are not wild pigeon?


maybe he just forgot to band them ..or the band came off ..i have a few baby like that


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

now what about wild pigeon? is there a diff too?


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

Feral pigeons are a lot smaller than your homers. You'll notice it when they are side by side. 
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

okay thank. 

Now holding my pigeon. how do i hold? they are scare of me. I try to hold one they try to hit me or fly way. I dont just want to grab them as fast as i can but how do i?

when i try to hand feed the pigeon, one of my pigeon keep eating my hand. why that now?


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfo4hwILoTg
This set of vids on youtube will help you.
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Now holding my pigeon. how do i hold? they are scare of me. I try to hold one they try to hit me or fly way. I dont just want to grab them as fast as i can but how do i?

when i try to hand feed the pigeon, one of my pigeon keep eating my hand. why that now?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

this is the right way to hold a pigeon
http://www.pigeonblog.mapyourcity.net/img/documentation/testflights/bob_holding2.jpg

and the hand feeding part ..do it even eat or dose it only bite you ...it might want you to get away from him


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

idk i bite i guess. it come to me then start to bite then eat then bite again. i dont want to call it dump anything but idk lols


Here is my new feeder i just made.

















a short clip
FEEDER


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

not bad ...my birds bite my hand like that too ..they are just not sure where food is at


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

lols i know pigeon are not blinding. lols but i guess. lols

What next i should update on? (around the coop)
im planing to make other coop in the summer.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> lols i know pigeon are not blinding. lols but i guess. lols
> 
> What next i should update on? (around the coop)
> im planing to make other coop in the summer.


update the watering?

yea you should make a bigger loft ,pigeon breed fast!


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

oh the drinker is coming soon. maybe in a week or so with my pigeon food too. =D cant wait. (Bullet drinker)

how many pigeon will i even get this year? i got 10 homer. i got to make a video for you guys to see how old and young they are. one by one.

what kinda of pigeon food will i need to get for my pigeon?
(i hear something like 12% pigeon grain) what will the Pigeon food be call?




blongboy said:


> update the watering?
> 
> yea you should make a bigger loft ,pigeon breed fast!


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

12% is for flying birds ...if you plan to breed you need to go high to like 16% but under 18%(i think not 100%sure)

if you got 10 good breeding pair you can have about 120 baby buy the end of the years


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Dammmm. lols only if they are good breeding pair. lols that would be so nice. lols

will ask around and see what people got to say too.
(i hear something like 12% pigeon grain) 

*(12% is for flying birds ...if you plan to breed you need to go high to like 16% but under 18%) [blongboy say]

More info from other.*



blongboy said:


> 12% is for flying birds ...if you plan to breed you need to go high to like 16% but under 18%(i think not 100%sure)
> 
> if you got 10 good breeding pair you can have about 120 baby buy the end of the years


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

even if you want to breed that many still get a whole mess of dummy eggs. That way you can give the hen a rest from laying if you don't have 2 sections for the cocks and hens before you get the second loft up.
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

i dont mind that many baby pigeon. lols 

Logangrmnr what you think about that Question i ask above you. (about the food)


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> i dont mind that many baby pigeon. lols
> 
> Logangrmnr what you think about that Question i ask above you. (about the food)


you got to think about the hen health too ...it can cause alot of stress ...many breeder only breed 3 to 4 round a year max


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

lols oh. k. i guess will take all my hen out when they have like 2 baby pigeon.

but i still dont cant till the diff from a male and a female. 
*[*I know the Males are more vocal and will do a lot of courtship dancing. 
Hens are usually pretty quiet unless someone messes with them. Then they can get rowdy and look like boys.*]*
but how would you tell if the male dont do courtship dancing or vocal...???

*Logangrmnr what you think about that Question i ask above you. (about the food)*


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

I get my feed from the race club. It's 13.5% protein. To that I mix wild bird seed all year and during the breeding season I add a chicken layer pellet. 2 cans wild to 1 can of pigeon mix all year. And breeding 2 cans more to that mix. Because I race the birds they also get wheat germ oil, red cell, garlic, probiotics, apply cider vinegar, vitamins, oyster shell, red grit and minerals. There's more to play around with but these are the highlight. Find a race club and talk to the guys there. Even if you don't race they are a wealth of local knowledge.
Logangrmnr


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

Cocks will do a full spin when courting. Hens look a little more feminine. It's hard to tel some times. some cocks are henny and some hens are cocky. If you have 4 eggs in a bowl than that pair are hens. when your around them you should be able to pick them out and be right 80% of the time.
Logangrmnr


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/traps.html
http://www.globalpigeon.com/index.php?cPath=36&osCsid=gjo1cp1pls3p2im8p1h71tcmp6
http://www.jedds.com/-strse-Equipment->>-Loft-Utilities-cln-Traps,-Stall/Categories.bok

Pigeon supply house stall traps and sputniks
logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank logangrmnr. Will talk to the race club i guess. lols kinda feel NEWBIE talking to them but will do. I already i have the trap coming in soon. here are my trap im getting.

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-662/ALUMINUM-BOB-w-fdsh--PLASTIC/Detail.bok

My stuff came in today. will post picture when i get home.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

when i call my pigeon to come eat or when i let them out to fly how do i call them to come home?
do it matter how i whise to call them?

i cant bands my baby pigeon cause then male or female keep hitting me? do i just push a little and grub it or what?

i still dont get how to hold the pigeon....?

i got 2 white pigeon. how do i clean them to be clean? i give them bath but seem like they dont want to take a bath. not just them but all of them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you would offer a bath pan....a plastic kitty litter box works well.. fill it with water out in the aviary and let them use it if they want.. empty it when they are done..or at the end of the day if they don't use it.. I saw your feeder it looked good.. the only thing is they can get on it and poop can get in the feed with that wire on the top.. you should put a solid top on it and just scrape it off to clean it..


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Here is my Trap


















My Trap


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

the bath thing. i use tin foil bowl w.e you call it. lols but yea i use that for bath. i wanna keep my 2 white pigeon clean but idk how. =\ Feeder i should of but now it a late notice but it still work great. =D



spirit wings said:


> you would offer a bath pan....a plastic kitty litter box works well.. fill it with water out in the aviary and let them use it if they want.. empty it when they are done..or at the end of the day if they don't use it.. I saw your feeder it looked good.. the only thing is they can get on it and poop can get in the feed with that wire on the top.. you should put a solid top on it and just scrape it off to clean it..


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

To band baby birds you have no choice, but to grab them even though the parent are wing slapping you or biting you. You must hold the baby properly, however. You must cup them down. Don't grab them and expose their bodies up else they might get hit by the parents. One trick I use is to feed the parents first, then grab the babies and band them while they are not looking (around 6-7 days old).


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

How to hold a pigeon:http://www.ehow.com/how_2126326_hold-pigeon.html

How to call birds in. Make the same feeding noise that you use and the birds will land, trap and eat.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank Rodsd. i think that is a good idea. do it when they eat and it be easier.

wish i can see a video how to hold it then reading it lols.

i got 2 white pigeon. how do i clean them to be clean? i give them bath but seem like they dont want to take a bath. not just them but all of them. (foil bowl is what i use for bath them)


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

healthily bird would always want a bath(not try to say your's not) maybe they want to take a bath when you are not looking


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> Thank Rodsd. i think that is a good idea. do it when they eat and it be easier.
> 
> wish i can see a video how to hold it then reading it lols.
> 
> i got 2 white pigeon. how do i clean them to be clean? i give them bath but seem like they dont want to take a bath. not just them but all of them. (foil bowl is what i use for bath them)


http://youtu.be/KFtHSty5NUE


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

I just want to add that for your bath water make sure is is not cold. They will like it as much as you would. Make the water temperature tepid ... not hot, not cold, but in between is the best I can describe it.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> I just want to add that for your bath water make sure is is not cold. They will like it as much as you would. Make the water temperature tepid ... not hot, not cold, but in between is the best I can describe it.


really?... how does one do that if they have to use an outdoor hose?... never had anyone hesitate about the water temp... are your birds spoiled?...lol..


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> really?... how does one do that if they have to use an outdoor hose?... never had anyone hesitate about the water temp... are your birds spoiled?...lol..


Depending on circumstances you could fill your bird's bath the night before and then let it sit in your tub. In the morning you will have a very nice temperature water.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> Depending on circumstances you could fill your bird's bath the night before and then let it sit in your tub. In the morning you will have a very nice temperature water.


nice idea.. Thanks.. or I can let it sit in the sun before letting them out to bath..


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

My birds must be dumber than yours as they seem to prefer the colder water. 

We keep our water in jugs out in the loft. Mid Feb a gallon of water would freeze overnight. We would set it on the heater to thaw enough to pour. The way our waterer is set up we get a bucket of "dirty" water that we dump. By dirty I mean was in the waterer before i dumped it. At one point we decided to 'give them a bath' and went up to the house to get non-frozen water. I think the water must have been about 50 degrees or so that we brought down. Since we were bathing inside I brought the bucket of nearly frozen water in and put it next to the bath water so I could pour dirty water out and refill the bath. Only had to poor "bath" water out once. But I did have to pour fresh water into the bucket because that ice cold water was the bath of choice. 

I have quite trying to figure out what those birds prefer.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

lols will i just try my best to bath them. 

some of my new stuff i order. dam i never knew my nest bowl be this big. lols

For the tobacco stems do i break it in half or leave it long?


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

*How do i read this band and eye?*


















*My Trap*


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

*
This is hold we hold the Pigeon. that okay?*


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Here is a clip of my pigeon eating with there new feeder and new food.

Feeder




Here is my Clip of my Try out Trap 
Try out Trap
^^^^^^^^
at the end idk what they were doing but seem like they were flight? Is that alright?


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

look at the pics on how the fellas are holding their birds. the feet are between the pointing and the middle finger. they have good positive control of the birds. if the bird starts to move, point the pigeons crop against your chest and the hand that's not holding the feet can reposition the wings back under the thumb.
http://pigeonnetwork.com/nf/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1061

AU 1130 WSM 2008 = American Racing Pigeon Union number 1130 WEST SIDE MEMBERS year 2008


Logangrmnr


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

The feeder is nice but I would make it a solid top to keep out poop, the bob trap is good but you can remove the wood from the front all you need is the door to close it off. And yes your birds were fighting over who got the box. Great job on getting everything started. You have some nice homers.
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank you. will take other picture later on see if i hold it right this time. lols but yea i should of made a top but now what do i use to cover the top now? yes i did move those wood out of the way. Now it just the bob trap and door. Tomorrow im gonna make a cage for the bob trap. (maybe depend on the weather over here) 

is it okay if they flight like that?


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

Yes it's ok for them to go back and forth. they will do that if you're there or not but if you have one that is super dominant keep an eye on it. I have one that was super aggressive but I also had another one that was the same in another section. Put the 2 of them together and watched. After a couple of push and shove matches they stopped picking on each other and everyone else. They are still dominant in there own space in the loft. The key is to watch the birds.
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

alright thank.

give me an idea how would i make a cage around my coop. i want to make a cage for them on the side where my window are but i dont know how would i do it. you got an idea how would i do it? something small for them to go in and out and something i can close at night and open in the morning for them.


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/
this is the loft section for pigeon talk take a look at them. A lot of great ideas.
Logangrmnr


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

alright will look and see what i can find.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Here is a link to me showing how to hold a pigeon. 

https://picasaweb.google.com/jaysenodell/HoldingAPigeon#

The other hand should go under the birds to support it (chest area). Hard to do when you are using that hand to run the camera!


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

The feeder should not have a wire top. the poop can go through there and contaminate the feed, but looks good otherwise. i would also remove those wood slats on your trap i think the birds will trap better. Or make the distance between them farther.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

can you guy give me idea how to make a home made cage? so they can come out and look around and go back in. and i want to open the cage at the top so i can grab them. Look on my video i want to make it on the side of my crop where is the window. Also how do i keep hawk away from my coop? plus i heard that when the pigeon have there eggs you cant touch it??


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> can you guy give me idea how to make a home made cage? so they can come out and look around and go back in. and i want to open the cage at the top so i can grab them. Look on my video i want to make it on the side of my crop where is the window. Also how do i keep hawk away from my coop? plus i heard that when the pigeon have there eggs you cant touch it??


hawk will always come ... you cant stop them...and it depend on the pair some bird will get off the eggs if you touched it ...or seem like it been mess with... most should be fine.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

can i move the egg to other nest if they dont sit on it anymore?


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

yea i move it. but soon today i will post up other try out trap without it.



Shadybug Lofts said:


> The feeder should not have a wire top. the poop can go through there and contaminate the feed, but looks good otherwise. i would also remove those wood slats on your trap i think the birds will trap better. Or make the distance between them farther.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Here my cage for my landing board. 

















Other video of my trap and cage together.

My Cage and Trap


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

Just other Video

*can i move the egg to other nest if they dont sit on it anymore?*


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> Just other Video
> 
> *can i move the egg to other nest if they dont sit on it anymore?*


it depend how old the eggs are compare to the one already in the nest


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

okay. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here my side loft.









help me out here. i want to make something like this on the side of my loft. can someone give me idea or drew a picture how would i make it.

My other Thread


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

*egg*

will i came home from work and i lost my last egg. my 3rd egg out of this year so far. =\


i really dont know what happen to all my egg. It was smash and it was rotten also it was stick on his/her belly. Do you think you can tell me what cause this egg being like this?


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