# Incest Breeding help



## jimmydman21 (Dec 2, 2010)

Hello, I need some info/help. I have some Satinette pigeons who are in the middle of raising their third set of chicks... Recently I have noticed that the Male from the first set has been courting the female from the second set.(technically brother and sister) They spend all day and night together and I don't want to separate them but am worried about problems with future children they might want to have once all their student loans are paid off. Can anyone tell me if there are problems associated with sibling pigeons having kids? I was planning on introducing some new Satinetts(not related) to the mix to get different colors(mine are all white) but I think its too late....Thanks


----------



## Therc30guy (Jan 3, 2011)

*Inbreeding and Linebreeding*

I am pretty new to this but I picked up a used copy of "The Pigeon" by Wendell Levi. Does a bit of explaining of the use of inbreeding to establish a line of pigeons. It is certainly more sophisticated than mating brother to sister, but it dispels some of the fears. Breeding daughter to father or grandfather, and son back to mother appear to be pretty common.
There are a lot of really accomplished breeders on this site, I hope they will chime in here and help us both out.
John


----------



## jimmydman21 (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks Therc30guy!. I've been finding more info on the subject and I guess its not that bad. I will definitely look for that book. I am really hoping to get another pair of colored satinettes since all of mine are white...Thanks again for your input.


----------



## Chilangz (Apr 3, 2008)

Inbreeding comes with Selective Breeding. If you breed Sister to brother, there are chances of getting the disadvantages doubled in their offspring.
But it has its own advantages too. Usually experienced breeders do it. As said before its more sophisticated than it looks.


----------



## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

I have not ever had a problem with inbreeding in birds. You did not say how many birds you started with though. All our B.B. Red bantams are from 2 trios purchased from different breeders. We use an incubater to hatch the eggs and just pair(trio) up the ones we want to breed. Since these are game chickens once you seperate the birds you can not add birds to the group. We have not added new blood for about 8 generations now with no problem/ unwanted traits showing.

But there are reasons you breed daughter to father and son to mother. Breeding siblings makes it harder to pin down the traits you want. But in your case the issue is your worry over inbreeding. No worries, is my answer just don't let the offspring of these mate. In my chicken example above the bird had atleast 4 parents and most likely more then we only breed in small groups to keep genetic diversity within the line.


----------



## LizBerg (Dec 1, 2010)

The best way I've ever heard it put is that inbreeding will magnify the gene's you've got, whether they're good or bad.


----------



## jimmydman21 (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks for your input...I've just added a new nest box and these two claimed it immediately. In total I have 8 pigeons. The two original Satinette couple and their three kids(unfortunatly they have only been able to have one baby(that lived) at a time. Don't know if this is due to genetics or just bad parenting or both).Apart from them I have two huge I was told Tumbler pigeons with very long feathers on there feet. I'll try to post some pic's of them soon. These two have had only one baby so far(one egg fell out of the nest early on). The Satinette parents are currently nesting again(with two eggs which will hopefully survive) Thanks again everyone.


----------



## tasadar_72 (Jan 26, 2012)

to establish a line use inbreeding, ex both bro and sis are fast or hell fast like mind blowing so its ok to pair them, but they lack consistency, so what i do is pair them to one of there relative with a touch of a consistent outside blood - This is called linebreeding cause you are trying to preserve a line even if i mention that there is an outside blood. Inbreeding simply means pairing 100% similar blood like bro n sis in the same parent. I will reveal to you a formula since im already fed up. champion bro n champion sis from the same parent pair them, the most ****ty one keep it, pair it to grandma or grandpa. Keep the offspring and use it as breeders. Pair them and use there sons and daughters to race. By doing this you have corrected several abnormalities. Remember this formula. Do this to create your own lines. That is info to all of you...


----------



## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

jimmydman21 said:


> Thanks for your input...I've just added a new nest box and these two claimed it immediately. In total I have 8 pigeons. The two original Satinette couple and their three kids(unfortunatly they have only been able to have one baby(that lived) at a time. Don't know if this is due to genetics or just bad parenting or both).Apart from them I have two huge I was told Tumbler pigeons with very long feathers on there feet. I'll try to post some pic's of them soon. These two have had only one baby so far(one egg fell out of the nest early on). The Satinette parents are currently nesting again(with two eggs which will hopefully survive) Thanks again everyone.


If you're having trouble with babies living, this can indicate salmonella in your flock.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jimmydman21 said:


> Hello, I need some info/help. I have some Satinette pigeons who are in the middle of raising their third set of chicks... Recently I have noticed that the Male from the first set has been courting the female from the second set.(technically brother and sister) They spend all day and night together and I don't want to separate them but am worried about problems with future children they might want to have once all their student loans are paid off. Can anyone tell me if there are problems associated with sibling pigeons having kids? I was planning on introducing some new Satinetts(not related) to the mix to get different colors(mine are all white) but I think its too late....Thanks


I guess it depends on why you want to have young from a bro and sis.. if you are getting new stock or blood in the loft, I suppose you can always pair up as you see fit to improve what you have, but you should have a plan and be familiar with genetics..which Iam not. remember you can use fake eggs and three rounds for any pair is enough in a years time IMO.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Unless the breed is already inbred you should not have any bad side effects from the first cross, I would not reccomend repeating this process too many times but pigeons can generally take a bit of inbreeding without ill effects. If both the offspring have picked something recessive up from their parents then you may see that by breeding them together. and yes I agree, 3 rounds in a year should be a pairs limit.


----------

