# Does size really matter?



## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

Hello All,
As a newbie, I'm curious about everything. I was wondering, tonight, about size in a racing pigeon. My Lemons seem to be larger than most of the racing pigeons that I have looked at. So much so that I find it a little hard to apply the "pigeon holding grip" that I was shown recently, although that might be partly due to mutual nervousness.
So, the real question, here is: What is your opinion on how size affects performance in a racing pigeon? Is bigger (more muscular) better? Or smaller (lighter weight)?...
Thanks! Bill KU4QB
BTW, my Lemons >were< a little overweight. With better control of their diet, they seem more fit now, but still large.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

In every pigeon there is 2 pigeons. There is the one you see and the one on the inside. If the one on the inside has heart, drive, toughness and just won't let other birds in front of it then all the outside stuff don't mean bull.


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## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

Very true in general. But, among true competitors, how would size affect the outcome?
Bill KU4QB


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

I have heard it does matter, however, my personal experience has been both large and small have performed good in any distance. I agree that it doesnt matter if the pigeon has the desire. I personally try to put a larger bird with a smaller bird when pairing to attempt to get "medium" youngsters. You will probably get as many answers as there are possibilities to this question.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Ohiogsp has it right I believe.

It is not the size of the bird (or person). It is the size of the heart in the bird.

Not referring to the physical size, but the metaphysical size.

To put it in a better and more known way. It ain't the size of the dog in the fight. It is the size of the fight in the dog.

There are cases where large pigeons have won races and cases small pigeons have won. The basket will tell. Not the handling, eye sign, wing structure, pedigree, etc.

The actual races.

But when obtaining birds that you have no race records on, do not take extra large nor extra small without a good reason. Mid-size would be "normal" and probably the best way to go. But if someone offers you a little tiny hen that has been in the top ten percent over and over again. Go for it!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

As long as this size is muscle, and not just fat, then they should be fine. Also, balance/proportion is really important. A huge bird with little stubby wings are going to have a hard time getting around  They'd look like Modenas trying to fly.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

In my personal observation small birds have difficulty flying against a headwind so I suppose medium birds will be better on those races. I prefer a balance bird without any exaggerated features. The "heart" is something you will discover when the bird encounters a really challenging scenario and "make" it! For example, sometimes I wonder how one of my bird was able to come back alive with chest puncture wounds(hole) and limping foot and barely can fly because it is really hurt bad and still went home.


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## palomo (Aug 28, 2009)

I heard that bigger birds are better at short distance flying, and smaller birds are best at long distance flying, correct me if im wrong.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Aviephile said:


> Hello All,
> As a newbie, I'm curious about everything. I was wondering, tonight, about size in a racing pigeon. My Lemons seem to be larger than most of the racing pigeons that I have looked at. So much so that I find it a little hard to apply the "pigeon holding grip" that I was shown recently, although that might be partly due to mutual nervousness.
> So, the real question, here is: What is your opinion on how size affects performance in a racing pigeon? Is bigger (more muscular) better? Or smaller (lighter weight)?...
> Thanks! Bill KU4QB
> BTW, my Lemons >were< a little overweight. With better control of their diet, they seem more fit now, but still large.


Does size really matter ?.......

Like Whitesnmore suggested, you can get all kinds of answers. BIG does not mean better....nor does SMALL mean better. Both large and small birds have won races. I suspect like all kinds of different traits, wings, eyes, tails, vents, etc. etc. Many fanciers like to focus on the external parts which we can see....but perhaps the most important organ...*the brain*....we can't really see, and I have always suggested that the brain just may have as much, or more to do with racing success as anything else we can see or feel. 

Myself and most fanciers, over time, develope certain biases, which I suspect may have little to do with racing success....such as color, size, eye color, wing shape, tails, vents, etc. etc. Some very famous and successful strains are very large birds, now was that because the builder of the strain was biased towards large size birds, or did his foundation birds just happen to be large ? The most consistant bird in the 2006 Flamingo International Challenge, was a hen, I happen to own, which was named "BIG Deal" because she was very large. I have no idea, what, if anything, her size had to do with it. But, I no longer dismiss a pigeon anymore because it seems larger then average.


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## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses. Truly, I expected a variety of opinions. I got about the same thing from conversations with local racers. I have seen the Barkels Lemons described as "Sprinters", which fits well with the comment about more muscle being better for short distances. Kinda like drag racers versus ralley cars...
The local yb races seem to be in the 300 mile range so I guess I'll find out next September IF I have a team ready.;-}
Got my first egg yesterday! It probably isn't fertile, though, because they have been seperated since the 26th of November. It's been fun watching them learn how to nest and I'm waiting to see if a second egg is laid. Is it likely that a second one would be fertile (I put them back together and supplied a nest bowl)? Or would both eggs normally come from the same mating?
Thanks again for all the responses! Bill KU4QB


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

just to add trentons are a good sized bird and were used for long distance racing


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