# found baby pigeon! broken wing!



## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

I found another baby....i would guess about 3 weeks old.
But it already has more green and pink shininess on its neck than pecky has. I guess its probably a boy...
Its wing is just hanging completely down...
It is outside in an aquarium with a sheet over it.
I wanted to see if mum would come, but its wing is quite badly hanging down, and it looks as though it is thinking about trying to jump out which would hurt it further, so it is covered.

uploading pics now.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Oh my...if it isn't one thing...it's another. Good thing the baby ended up in your yard.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

yes..but if they turn up at this rate, i won't be able to look after them all.
I'll have to pass them onto fauna rescue.
I'll keep this little guy though.
here are pics...
WHAT DO I DO NOW?!
how do i help his wing? He is absolutely terrified of me...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have any rehabbers in your area or vet that could wrap the wing for you? Can you feel a difference in the wings or feel a break?


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

i don't want to cause unnecessary pain by feeling it...i might ring a rehabber...

what should i feed him? He seems bigger than pecky was, but with way more fluff...do you think he is 3 weeks?

I put seeds in his cage...maybe i should try to feed him some soaked puppy biscuits or defrosted peas and corn though...

He seems so...different..to pecky.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes I think he's 3 weeks or maybe a bit older. Probably you will need to feed him. He's likely right out of the nest. The defrosted peas and corn would be great for now. Show him how to drink. While he may be frightened of you now, he'll warm up. I'm sure his wing hurts.
Doe look like he's going to be a big bird. Very cute.
Do call someone experienced with broken wings. You really do need to know what you're doing.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

I took him to a girl at the pet shop who is also a fauna rescue rehabber who LOVES pigeons.

She said she couldn't feel that his wing was broken, and thinks it may just be sprained. It is very bruised, and there was blood underneath, and a big purple and red bruise. It must hurt so much.

She said it probably doesn't need strapping, and it doesn't matter all that much anyway that he cann or can't fly if i choose to keep him as a pet.

I disinfected the area, and put some dettol cream on it.

He has warmed up already, and has started pestering me for food. I fed him some puppy biscuits, peas and corn. He is so easy to feed! He opens his mouth right up wide when i touch the sides of his beak, and wolfs it down  He also drinks well from a bottle nipple...something which pecky never did either.

yay! a friend for pecky.

It's pretty funny...he weighs 350 grams!  That is more than pecky, and he is 7 weeks younger than her.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

i am still conflicted over whether i should wrap the wing...

If it means that he will have better ability to fly...then of course, i want to wrap it, even if i do want him only as a pet.

But i'm scared that his wound will more likely infect if i wrap it, because the underneath of his wing will be warmer, and darker, and wetter and better for breeding bacteria...

What do you think?

He seems to be flapping it well enough when i feed him. If it is sprained, will it just go back to normal soon?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can tape it up with masking tape. To me, that works better than wrapping even though ti's fun getting the tape off. He may actually have an arthritic process going on in the elbow though and may need Baytril (it could be Paratyphoid). I've got one in the loft that I found under an underpass that looked a lot like that. His wing still hangs down a bit and he can fly as long as it's in the loft. He couldn't make it "on the outside", though.

By the way, when a bird gets bruised, it usually turns green in a couple of day due to the biliverdin, which is a pigment that they have.

Pidgey


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

He seems to be a huge big fat healthy boy apart from the wing.
My guess is that he fell from right up high...from the top of the date palm, and hurt it on the way down.

I can actually see the bruise, and there was some blood, so it does seem to be an injury.

So you're saying to strap it anyway, even if it isn't broken?


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

it just worries me that the wound may be more likely to fester, so i don't want to strap unnecessarily.

That and, i have no idea what i;m doing


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Nikku chan, my mum inlaw lives in Paradise would you like me to ring her tonight my time and see where we took one of the top knot pigeons when it had conjunctivitis? They helped alot and my sister in law has a huge horse bording farm in Lower hermitage up in the hills there and she might be able to help you out also. The shoulder is clearly broken. Wrapping it won't do a thing, you could tape his/her lower wing feathers toward the tip of the tail that will keep it from dragging and also stabalize the wing so it isn't so mobile keep it from pooing and stepping on it. I have contacts there let me know what you want to do ok? 

Cindy
[email protected]


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, lift the wing and take a picture.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

If you decide to wrap the wing, I would suggest trying to find some 'Vet Wrap' (I think that's what they call it here in the states), rather than using masking tape. It's an elastic type of tape that sticks to itself & is MUCH easier to remove than masking tape.

Masking tape would be my last resort. 

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If the wing is broken and you don't get the bones lined up and wrap it just right, the bird will never fly again. That's why it's important to have someone wrap it that knows what they are doing. If you do decide to wrap it yourself, please take Cindy's advise and try to find a tape that sticks to itself. 
Sometimes we must improvise, such as using masking tape. When it's time to remove it though, it sticks to the feathers and is hard to get off.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Charis said:


> Sometimes we must improvise, such as using masking tape. *When it's time to remove it though, it sticks to the feathers and is hard to get off*.


My concern with that would be the possibility of *reinjuring* the wing trying to get the tape off.  

If you can't find any Vet Wrap, my second suggestion would be to use gauze & then use tape to hold the gauze in place. 

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> My concern with that would be the possibility of *reinjuring* the wing trying to get the tape off.
> 
> If you can't find any Vet Wrap, my second suggestion would be to use gauze & then use tape to hold the gauze in place.
> 
> Cindy


Great point.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I use tape because they I've never been able to keep vet wrap on one unless they're too sick or traumatized to care--they often manage to wriggle out of them. Tape's actually pretty easy to get off if you pull the feathers away from the tape instead of pulling the tape away from the bird. I usually have to retape them every few days because they're pulling it off themselves--they just can't do it near as fast as they can with the vet wrap, in my experience. Also, when you use tape, you don't have to go all the way around the bird several times like you do with vet wrap--you can do it with one piece starting from the other shoulder, over the back and down over and just under the other wing while holding it up in place. That'll keep it lifted to the normal position while it heals and you can still lift it up to look underneath. So can the bird, if he can.

In the first picture above, you can see that the radius and ulna are still intact (at least one of them is) because the length from the carpometacarpus to the joint of the radius/ulna pairing with the humerus looks normal. If he's got a broken bone, more than likely it'd be the humerus. Given your description of the lesion, that'd be an unusual place to get one. That's why I suggested that it might be a disease process. I got one in a couple of weeks ago that was heading that way (bursting, complete with blood leaking out) but after the course of Baytril is almost back to normal.

The other one that I told you about had blood leaking out and everything already. And, the actual joint was enlarged. That means that the ends of the bones (ulna and humerus) were physically a lot larger due to a bacterial induced arthritis. It happens. Can't be sure on your bird, but it does happen.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For the record, nikku-chan, we here at Pigeon-Talk don't agree on everything, nor do we all have the same types of experiences. One member might see an awful lot of canker where another sees a lot of PMV. One member might have easy access to a very good vet who's very understanding and helpful while another might only have vets that regularly euthanize birds that could easily have been saved.

What we all do agree on is to try and do something to help and save the bird for either a release or finding it a forever home, if the person who comes to the forum with the bird wants to give it a try. So, we offer whatever advice we can to help, knowing that there's only a million different possibilities for how it's going to turn out in the end. You're going to have to wade through the varying opinions and take whichever advice feels right to you, or none of it, and do what you're going to do. 

There's a lot of room for mistakes, and that's life--trying to make the best of it with all of its uncertainties. In this particular case, if you were only going to follow one piece of my advice, I'd rather that it was getting the bird on an antibiotic that would cover Paratyphoid and you can either wrap the wing or not however you feel best to proceed.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> For the record, nikku-chan, we here at Pigeon-Talk don't agree on everything, nor do we all have the same types of experiences. One member might see an awful lot of canker where another sees a lot of PMV. One member might have easy access to a very good vet who's very understanding and helpful while another might only have vets that regularly euthanize birds that could easily have been saved.
> 
> What we all do agree on is to try and do something to help and save the bird for either a release or finding it a forever home, if the person who comes to the forum with the bird wants to give it a try. So, we offer whatever advice we can to help, knowing that there's only a million different possibilities for how it's going to turn out in the end. You're going to have to wade through the varying opinions and take whichever advice feels right to you, or none of it, and do what you're going to do.
> 
> ...


I do agree with Pidgey about starting the bird on antibiotics.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi nikku-chan,

It would be great if you could provide a photo of the injury. Would he have fallen on concrete if he fell from the nest?  With an older bird we would assume trauma from people or traffic, but that little one should still be in the nest and if it is an injury then it could have been caused by whatever took it out of the nest.

Can you also examine his whole body to ensure there are no other injuries? I once missed a puncture wound because the feathers had been forced into the wound cavity...I only discovered the injury when the feathering in that region became roughened.

I am pleased that Pecky has a potential companion. If you carry on finding needy pigeons you might not be able to keep them but you will have companions to help rehab any youngsters (after a period of isolation) before release.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

nikku-chan, I'll put my 2 cents in with the rest about the antibiotic. Our vet has always told us to use an antibiotic ANY TIME there is an open wound. We usually use Baytril but I don't know if that is available to you in Australia. Personally, I think he injured his wing from the fall. Often, you can't tell for sure if a break is at the top of the humerus without a radiograph (x-ray). If it is a break there, it is almost impossible to do anything about it, whether you wrap it or not - at least that has been our experience. We have always kept any pigeon under those circumstances. After the break has healed, we try to exercise the wing gently every day to keep it as mobile as possible and often they can make short flights, though nothing very high. So, to me, it is important to find out if there is a break and where it is.

Wrapping wings has always been a pain in the neck to me and, I'll admit, we're not very good at doing it. Our experience with using vet wrap is much like Pidgey's - you put it on, set the pigeon in its cage, turn around and, poof!, it is already off.  We do use it, however, but run regular adhesive tape around it. I really, really hate the stuff. Even our vet can't always get it to stay. I remember one pigeon that we took to her about three days straight and she finally ran regular adhesive tape to keep it on.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I've been at work all day, i'm going to be at work all day tomorrow, and then it is the easter long weekend..so i don't know if i can make it to a vet. Even if i could, i am so broke right now that it just isn't possible.

The camera is charging so i'll have under-wing pics in about 2 hours. He is still flapping crazily with both wings for food, and his wing isn't drooping as much as it was yesterday, so i don't know if i should wrap it or not. Could he still flap if the humerous was broken?

I am thinking i will, because he is on baytril now, and that should take care of infection in the wound if there was going to be one. Wrapping it is better than not. If i do wrap, i have mefix (primapore), which is like a sticky kind of bandage/dressing (not too sticky, but enough to stick) that is used in hospitals etc. look it up on google if you don't know the stuff i mean. It comes in a roll and you cut it to whatever length you want.

Yes, he would have fallen on hard ground. Not concrete, but any number of items (lone bricks, laundry baskets, etc) that were under the tree, and if not them, then the dirt ground is almost as hard as concrete anyway.

I thought he would have injured his wing from the actual fall down though, as another tree has grown around the date palm entirely, and when he fell, he would have had to have fallen through a whole bunch of branches and twigs to get to the ground.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

What do you think?
I can't believe how fat and healthy he is...see how he even has iridescence on his neck already?
350 grams....wowzers...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi nikku-chan,

Wrap mefix round the wing and body, but make certain that you don't compress the rib cage in any way, because that can suffocate pigeons who use their muscles to breathe both in and out. That, together with the baytril, should be OK. 

Even if the wing isn't broken it is best to support it lightly and immobilise, rather like using a sling for a sprained arm.

One of my squabbies weighed in at 350 gms...I couldn't believe that either. She was released as she was a large, healthy bird, but she came home and clung pathetically to the avairy wire until I let her in again. Now she lays giant eggs.

It conforted me that even in the city centre a squab (cobbie) was getting so much to eat. Her crop was stuffed when I found her.

Cynthia


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

hehe, yes, it just amazes me.
Pecky looks like such a runt now.
I just wrapped the wing...uploading pics now...
It could be too loose..but better than being too tight. He's trying to peck it off already...but it looks fairly stuck.




























the last pic, you can see a slight difference in position compared to the other wing. is this okay?

And what do you think cynthia? does it look like it could be broken by the pics of the underside of the wing?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, that's a bruise! There's that greenish color that I was talking about earlier. And since he's flapping both wings enthusiastically, it's highly unlikely that anything's broken so it looks like you're pretty much in the clear. He'll probably be back to normal in a few days.

Pidgey


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

That is awesome. I'm so happy!
I'll leave the tape on for the few days, and hopefully it is back to normal when i remove it!

I let pecky in the room when i fed him earlier, and she was very interested. She came within 30 cm of him, but i didn't let them touch. He looked like he was about to chase her for food!

When do you think it will be safe to let them be together? I don't want to infect her with anything he might have, even though he looks super healthy.

His neck is really huge...it sticks out heaps. To me, it feels like his crop is way smaller than pecky's was. Like there is more neck and bumpy throat bit, and less crop. I'm scared i'm overfilling it, because the defrosted peas and corn are kind of like hard little sacks, and i was used to feeling the soggy dogfood inside pecky's crop, rather than hard round things. It is hard to tell whether the hardness is the bursting crop, or just the nature of the contents inside.

Do you think it is more healthy to keep up with the peas and corn, or to go back to puppy biscuits? I feel strange about feeding puppy biscuits, because i am vegetarian, and so is a pigeon (just about), and i don't want to give meat to an animal that basically doesn't naturally eat it.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Nikku-chan - yes, that looks like a bad bruise and a laceration, probably from a limb scraping his wing as he went down. I'm really glad you have the Baytril for him and he should start showing a lot of improvement soon.

I would not feed him exclusively corn and peas. I do think you need to give him the soaked dog biscuits, which, if they are like the dry dog food pellets we have in the states, are very good for them. As far as not feeling right about giving him the dog biscuits, just consider what is best for him. Pigeons are not vegetable eaters, per se, they are grain and seed eaters. The Science Diet adult bites that we sometimes feed our squabs has corn, wheat and other grains in it. It does have chicken by-products, but I figure that helps with giving them protein which you won't be getting from corn and peas.

I think I would hold off another week before letting him be with Pecky - mainly for his sake because he needs to be pretty calm while recovering.

He is a lovely little pigeon and, I can't believe how big he is for his age. He is what I call a whopper!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This is sooo exciting!
He's also big enough to be eating on his own so if you work with him a bit maybe you won't need to worry about corn, peas and dog biscuts. 
He's really a cute bird.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

okay, dog biscuits it is 

He's in a small box at the moment..i think i'll keep him in it for a few more days to reduce his flapping.

I hope he doesn't grow too big to be pecky's mate!


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

keeping the wing taped is hard work...
The next morning, he'd ripped the tape off along with 5 or so of his feathers  
I have tried again, but now he seems to get his wing out of it, while it stays still wrapped around his bottom...
I keep taping the wing to the tape around his bottom already, but he wriggles out again by the next morning.

I think tonight will be the last night i'll need to tape it anyway.
He is drooping it far less.

It seems he can easily return it to its natural position, and it only droops when he relaxes. Everytime he squeaks though, he returns it to match the position of the other wing.

He is so big...and so unlike pecky. He kamikazes out of my hands, even if i;m holding him up high...pecky would just snuggle down into my hands like she was scared of heights until she could fly.

No wonder he fell out of his nest


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sounds like you might as well forget the tape or wrapping of any kind, he's going to fine. The feathers you're talking about are the little feathers. I suppose that what I've found best is to actually use a fairly aggressive tape and to do it in such a way that they literally cannot get it off. But that's usually for truly broken wings and that's not the case here. 

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Question for Pidgey - could she tape the two wings together at the end of the flight feathers, immobilizing both of them?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Usually to the tail. That's usually to keep the tip from dragging or to provide forward-to-backward stability. This little guy's probably too on-the-move to take that procedure very well. And if he's already working the kinks out, it's just as well to let him do it.

Pidgey


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## Pinacola (Mar 19, 2008)

*About tape*

I don't have any birds, but am interested in possibly raising some.

I do take care of elderly people with very sensitive skin. Their skin tears easily since it is very thin. I use two things that I can buy at local drugstores, #1 - butterfly tape (to pull wounds closed gently) better than stitches and #2 - paper tape from the adhesive tape section.

The paper tape is gentle. It will not tear skin (in this case feathers) when it is removed. It adheres with fairly good stickiness, yet does not cause further damage to the thin skin of elderly patients. It is good enough to stay in place for several days, if dressings do not need to be changed daily.

I thought this might be something that you lofters could use for injured birds.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The worst thing about feathers is that they're covered with a powder that birds produce in order to waterproof themselves. That's actually what makes tape come off so easily.

Pidgey


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks for the advice, Pinacola, I'll keep it in mind.
My mum is an RN at a nursing home, so i'm sure she could bring me some supplies for next time 

Yes, i tried masking tape the last time, as i felt one aggressive tape would be better than lots of crappy tape and lots of re-tapings..But i'm gonna take it all off now. The wing isn't dragging, and i think it is distressing the poor thing..It must be pulling.

I took some pics last night of how big the baby actually is....he barely fits in my hand! Will post them in a few hours.

He has started picking seeds up, but isn't swallowing them....i'm sure soon he will


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

I just introduced them. It has been 5 days, and his wing is completely better as far as i can see.

Pecky is very interested in him, but doesn't know what to make of him chasing her around. It is a good thing she can fly and he can't.

Every time she comes down to see him, he chases her in circles, and eventually they both stop and try to work out what the hell is going on, or she flies away if he chases her too much.

It's cute. she is being really nice to him. I guess she knows he's a baby, eeven though he is WAY bigger than her.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

His wing is good..he isn't holding it down anymore. but when he flaps, he isn't extending the second elbow joint out very far like he is with his other wing.

I can't see any wound anymore, or any bruise. There wasn't all that much blood when i found him anyway, so i assume the wound was more like a few scratches.

Can i stop the baytril now? he has been on it for about 4 days.
I don't want to ruin his good flora.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Can i stop the baytril now? he has been on it for about 4 days.


No, the minimum course (according to Nooti's drug chart) is 7 days. Longer if it is being used to fight paratyphoid. If you give him natural youghurt when his course ends that will help rebuild his good gut flora. My old vet suggested giving the dog natural yoghurt at the same time as antibiotics, to protect the good gut flora.

Cynthia


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

anyone? can i stop the baytril now?

Also, the introductions with pecky and the baby are not going well..at first i thought he was chasing her for food, but now i think he may be chasing her AWAY from his food. He charges her...and he is less than 4 weeks old!
He has started eating seeds, and he gobbles a whole tablespoon (more if i allow him) without taking a pause.

Is there any way that i SHOULD be introducing them to make it go more smoothy? i am scared he will bully Pecky and she will never bond with him. He chases her and she flies away...but soon he will be flying, and she won't be able to get away.

Is he just wanting her to feed him, or is he being a meanie?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

No. Don't stop the baytril yet. Give it a full 7 days.
I suspect the two will get used to each other in time. Keep in mind they are both still babies and probably don't remember what another pigeon looks like.

I would think you should let the baby have as much to eat as he wants right now. He is still growing and his body knows what he needs.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks Charis,

I gave him as much as he wants...

But even 6 or 7 hours after he has eaten, he still has all the seeds in his crop.
Is this normal? Should i not feed him until they have disappeared?

I dont want to jam his system up.


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

so should i be waiting until the crop goes down?
or not?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

nikku-chan said:


> Thanks Charis,
> 
> I gave him as much as he wants...
> 
> ...


In 6 hours the seeds should have been digested already.
Definately don't feed until all seeds are gone from the crop. Give just water with ACV and a drop of olive oil. It will help to speed up the digestion.

Reti


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

thanks Reti 
the olive oil is a good idea!


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## nikku-chan (Jan 18, 2008)

Pecky and the baby are still not getting along..
I have to supervise their visits.

While at first the baby seemed to be the one bullying pecky (by chasing her), now it is Pecky that is bullying him.

I put him in the bathtub, so that she still had the bathroom as hers and she could visit him in the tub when she wanted to, but i find she keeps landing in the tub, and abusing him even though she has free run of the entire bathroom, and he cannot get away from her as he cannot get out of the bathtub easily.

She has begun to peck at him, around his tail and wing tips and underneath near his tummy. She doesn't peck hard, but it is obvious she is intimidating him.

She coos at him sometimes, like she is telling him to get out of her space, and i have seen them jousting and pecking each others beaks.

If i leave them for any length of time, i hear her cooing at him, and pecking at him, and all he can do is squeak his baby squeaks and stay in the corner.

The other day he was sitting on my shoulder, and she immediately flew onto my head and cooed at him, like, "this is MY perch", so i put her on my other shoulder, and she began cooing and pecking at my face, like "this is MY shoulder, get your head away from it!"

Is this normal? Will she hurt him? Should i leave it up to them?
He is about 5 weeks now, and she is about 12. They both still have the baby-style overgrown top beaks that can really dig in when positioned right, so i assume they could cut each others soft nose parts with it if they really wanted to.

I want to put them in the aviary outside together as soon as he is good at flying which will be in about 4 days, i would think. He can fly a little now.

How can i make them get along better?
They really need to sort themselves out within the next few days, but i am working, and i cannot supervise enough. Should i leave them in the bathroom together alone to work out their differences? Or should i wait until they're in the aviary, so she doesnt feel so much that the space is hers, like she does in the bathroom?

Please help!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

nikku-chan said:


> They really need to sort themselves out within the next few days, but i am working, and i cannot supervise enough. Should i leave them in the bathroom together alone to work out their differences? Or should i wait until they're in the aviary, so she doesnt feel so much that the space is hers, like she does in the bathroom?
> 
> Please help!


I don't think it would be wise to leave them in a small space like the bathroom without someone there to supervise and referee. I would wait until they are in the aviary, and you should still do this only when you have the time to keep an eye on them. It shouldn't be too long before they figure out no to peacefully coexist.

Terry


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