# Omg!!! A Freakin" Egg!!



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, i had the one legged and the homer in a cage, but the homner was aggravating one leg by flapping his wings in his face all the time, so i put the homer in a different cage for now, and a black and white, beautiful spotted feral with one legged.
They've been together for about a week. Today, i fed and watered, and spotted was sitting, then moved, and there was an EGG!!   
Help! What do i do? Take it away? Is it fertile? It's been there 24-30 hours?

Funny thing though, sidenote i guess, the homer, one legged, and spotted seem to have a love triangle! One legged and homer are in love, and spotted is IN love with one legged AND homer! Do pigeons lay eggs only when they mate? Or do they lay eggs when in heat, or like a period for a human?
sorry, i just know NOTHING about this!
All three birds are going to be shipped together after the first. 
When spotted was loose, she just sat outside their cage! Oh, they are inside birds, were feral, all rescues.


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

WHOA!! TESTY TESTY GAL!
she just went after me when i trued to get close to the egg! PUFFED up and bit me! I never even GOT to the egg? Am i supposed to switch with a fake egg? Can i substitute SOMETHING else until i have a fake shipped here? Like a wood craft one from an art store?
I know sometimes a second egg is supposed to come, or always? I know you, Aias and Sabina, had one egg recently? What became of that?
SORRY 100 questions! I guess i just never thought this would happen, silly me!


----------



## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

You can take it take it away. It is probably fertile. You can still take it away. They have a cycle where every 3 weeks they will lay an egg...you dont need to replace the egg with a fake one.. just let them lay again in a week or so. There should always be a second egg, unless the hen is very young or very old. And now you know it did happen to you... I think i answered all your questions.... =l


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, how long is a pigeon IN an egg before it cracks OUT of the egg?
I feel like I'm committing pijjie abortion! I mean, a baby pijjie is in there? Does it suffer, i guess?
i mean, i'm pro choice, but the mommy pijjie or baby pijjie dont have a choice here? I must sound completely nuts here!! LOL! This is my mind at times though!


----------



## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

well if you look at it one way... you can play castro and the pij's can be the cubans. But it is 21 days before the bird cracks out... this is most certainly first term abortion. I through out hundreds of eggs a year... no it doesnt suffer.. it hasnt ever started growing yet!


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, I would wait for the second egg and take them both at the same time and either replace them with fakes or hard boil the two, let them cool, and put them back in the nest. Just taking the egg or eggs away will just "egg on" the female to lay again and that isn't good for their health especially since these are rehab birds to begin with. JMO .. but it's what I would do. Craft eggs will work just fine.

Matt, I know what you have posted is technically correct, but we are trying to get these rehab birds to a point where they can be shipped to their permanent homes as soon as the Christmas rush is over. Having them in a big fluster over nesting and laying eggs isn't really what we want to have going on right now. Also, keeping the hen just laying and laying isn't really good for her health and well being.

Terry


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> * *WHOA!! TESTY TESTY GAL!*
> *she just went after me when i trued to get close to the egg! PUFFED up and bit me!*
> 
> ** *I never even GOT to the egg? Am i supposed to switch with a fake egg?*
> ...


* She's just being a Mom, very protective. 

** I would replace the eggs, unless you're prepared to have a couple babies around. I wouldn't just take the eggs without replacing them with artifical ones, either plastic or wooden should do. Some have even hard boiled the eggs, let then cool & put them back in the nest. 

*** 9 times out of 10 they will lay two eggs. The second one usually arrives within 48 hours of the first egg.

Cindy


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Sounds like you've been steered in the right direction so far. Craft eggs do work just fine. . .I've also had pigeons who voluntarily laid on ping pong balls, the chicken's eggs, small ceramic pig figurines, shiny round rocks, and various other creative "eggs". Many times this was when my pigeons lived inside the house and would find one of the above objects, then somehow make a nest around it or roll it to their nest (usually when I saw them take interest in something, I would put it in their nest for them . I lost some cute miniatures to pigeon poop hehe). Their love triangle is hilarious. I have a big guy, Leonardo, who has two mates, one on each end of the aviary. He spends half his time with one, and the other half with the other. Neither of them seem to mind (maybe don't even know about each other lol). Good luck with your guys until they go to their new home.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

If they are the ones going to Pidgey, let them hatch!  

Seriously, I would probably pull it.


----------



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Congratulations Moxie!!!

Replace the egg with something round - a ball of tinfoil tightly packed, or a wooden egg from the craft store. She will lay another within a day or 2. Replace that one as well. She may puff up and bite when you switch them, but once the exchange is made, she will not know the difference. She'll sit happily for a couple of weeks.

The eggs may or may not be fertile. But if they are fertile and they hatch, you are looking at a few months before you can ship the parents anywhere. Not to mention the health strain - parenting is very stressful for both parents, depleting their reserves. And the squeekers born in captivity may not be releaseable either. Very risky to let them hatch, IMO.

Let me know if you need fake eggs - I have extras.


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Moxie,

When I swap an egg, I have the infertile or dummy egg in my hand, palm down, and slip my hand under the sitting bird. I drop the dummy egg, scoop up the viable or fertile egg, and the pigeon does not know an egg has been removed.

Any egg I remove and hard-boil, I mark the shell with a small X. 

If the egg is incubated at the right temperature, development starts almost immediately. If you are curious, look up "zygote," "meiosis," "parthenogenisis" and related terms in Wikipedia, and take it as far as you want. The fertilized egg cell splits in half, then those cells split into halves, and so on: 2-4-8-16-32-64, etc. Each stage has its specific biological terminology.

At some point in embryonic development, a cluster of cells form the brain, and then the open spinal cord develops, and later closes. All animals with spinal cords are chordates. Some chordates develop wings/arms/legs/flippers, or fins. Some have vestigial arms and legs which do not develop.

Don't want to get too pedantic here, but the embryo does not feel pain until the nerve center (brain) and nerves have developed to a certain degree. If the pigeon egg takes 18 days to hatch, then the first few days there is probably not enough nerve development for the embryo to feel pain as we do. I have used this general reckoning when dealing with a couple of eggs. 

Most of what I have stated is rather vague, and a biology teacher would probably be eager to correct me. I studied this in biology class forty years ago, and haven't had much need to recall detailed _minutiae_ since. 

A pigeon sitting on eggs may help him/her be more relaxed during transportation.

When I brought non-flying female pigeon *Osk-gurr* and her surviving (female) squeaker *Wie-osk* (who had just learned to fly) from our atelier to her new home with the pigeon re-habber Christa, they were in one pet carrier in the car, and her temporary mate *Wieteke* was sitting on the newly-laid hard-boiled eggs in a nest bowl in a separate pet carrier. I brought him along to observe the transition of his family. He had not readily accepted them after they were taken to our atelier, and we had to bring him daily to the atelier to get him to nest sit. He accepted his nest-sitting duties as a matter of fact, and fed the squeaker without question. At the time of the transition he was avoiding and running away from the squeaker, who could eat on (her) own. We did not think he would want to make the transition to a new home, since he was a two-year-old free-flying city bird adapted to street pigeon city techniques of avoiding raptors, and Christa's small aviary was in a suburban area, with other types of raptors in nearby forests. She let her pigeons fly daily if they so chose. He sat on the eggs during the whole trip, content to be left alone. He made no attempt to join his mate. Back home, he stepped off the nest bowl, left the eggs behind, and didn't return to them. The female Osk-gurr found a new mate, and has had two more beautiful chicks since then.

Larry


----------



## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

you have just like what i have a triangle i breed this chinese owl cock bird and i wanted a mate for him so i got a mate and had them together for about 4 months then i wwent to this show and bought a nice red old fashion frill
i moved them over to my new house here and i notice the hen is cooing with the old fashion frill but the chinese owl cock is trying to beat him up then i took him in my hands and the hen was cooiing at the cock bird now some odd , she laid eggs this passed week and they all are sitting on the eggs but the cocks are still pecking at eachother but not hurting and they are missing half of the time
i am going to have to put the red old fashion frill in the other section when i get the door up..


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, she just laid a seond egg. I am hard boiling them now. How long does she need to sit on these hard bolied eggs? Dont they go bad and smelly soon?
ok, the second egg is WAY smaller than the first. I'm attaching a pic. Also, the first egg, there is now a small hole, like they pecked a hole into it, whats up with that?
here's the link to pics
http://public.fotki.com/xxscribblerxx/pigeons/


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi "x", 



Awwwwwww...you should have just left 'em be...


Probably they were not fertile anyway...

Young Hens, coming of age but not yet really ready to have Mates elect them, especially, will get wound up and Lay Eggs even when their 'crush' has been in a cage consistantly without any contact with them.

That happens here all the time, a young recovered free-fly Hen will make a little nest next TO a Cage, in which the object of her desire, resides...and the Eggs are never fertile.


And, if the Eggs had been fertile, it would do you good to be able to observe and hover over the entire process form here to when the youngsters fledge and continue to grow up till release, with all the info you would need from me or others here, on your role and what you should do, for the process to eventuate well for all concerned.


So, bear that in mind for next time, if you like...

Looks like a lot of size difference between the two Eggs...is that really so? Or an effect of the Camera and paralax?


Best wishes!


Phil
l v


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, that is the size difference, thats why i posted them, is that odd?


----------



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

and, dont want to take a chance that they ARE fertile! These guys/gals are all being shipped come the 1st...


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Incubation time*

Hello Moxie,

Incubation time is normally 18 days. From my experience they will sit on the eggs up to 22 days before deciding to abandon them. When my male pigeon Wieteke and his feral mate Mamieke had their first nest, she laid a solitary egg a bit smaller than a normal egg. (If my memory is correct, the first solitary egg from the first nest weighed 18 grams, and eggs from the second nest were around 26 grams. 28,4 grams = 1 ounce). She also had a large "poop" which looked like egg white and stuff, without a shell. I don't recall whether this "egg-looking mass" preceded or followed the small solitary first egg. I think it followed it. 

Larry


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> well, she just laid a seond egg.
> *I am hard boiling them now.*





xxmoxiexx said:


> and, *dont want to take a chance that they ARE fertile!* These guys/gals are all being shipped come the 1st...


Wise move, Moxie.  
I think the *LAST* thing you need to worry about, right now anyway, are a couple babies. 

Cindy


----------



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Moxie, the size difference may be normal if she is a young bird and this is her first time. The little one is sometimes called a "pee wee" egg.

But just in case, make sure she has free access to grit with calcium. Sometimes small or soft eggs can be a sign of a calcium deficiency.

Not sure about the hole. Never seen that before. But as long as you're providing calcium via grit, and allowing her to sit instead of taking the eggs away & prompting her to keep laying, I would not worry.


----------

