# Line of Flight ?



## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

How important is it to train old birds on the line of flight? Reason is this Saturday morning I have to go out of town which will be straight North instead of NE my line of flight. The distance will be 65 miles, they have already been 45 miles on the line of flight last weekend. Thanks


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Sounds like a good training run to me. This way if they get off a little to the west during race time, they will see things they saw before. But then, How do they do it the first time? The world may never know.

Tony


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Well here's a thought. Your birds are homers. They should home once they are settled and have routed. So it shouldn't matter. 

That said one guy in our club had his best year training off the line of flight. The line was south east and he trained due west. He was always in the top 5 for the club and top 10% for the combine. He's the one who started me thinking that maybe we make too much of the line of flight. But then folks have been training to line of flight for years.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

It won't hurt them it will only help them. I was told you should always take them on long trips no matter the direction.


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## klondike goldie (Apr 20, 2009)

It doesn't really matter with old birds. I always try to toss my old birds where they have to home in a head wind. Tail wind tosses are a waste of time and gas.


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I didn't feel like direction should matter with old birds but my friend/mentor believes in only the line of flight!!! I've already told him after this year I'll give him winning tips next year


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

It's fine, usually the training is just for their fitness. A guy here who has won the most 600's ever in our state trains his obs around the clock to get them thinking all the time because for distances races more than not birds will get off course and have to find their way back anyways.


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, all birds were in the loft when I got home this afternoon. My friend/mentor told me I'd probably lose half of them I wish my module would have been in the clock to see how long it took them


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

It's just mainly at first when I think you should train in the direction of the races. Once they get that figured out, you can let them out in any direction in my opinion, it's just fitness and exercise that you need them to do.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Just my opinion. Any distance is good for the wing. But when your on the line of flight. Its good for the races. They will know that route when it comes to the races.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

JRNY said:


> Just my opinion. Any distance is good for the wing. But when your on the line of flight. Its good for the races. *They will know that route when it comes to the races*.


Yeah I agree, This applies the same when it comes to the birds going off track, If you never train off the line of flight they may veer off track and get lost if they have never learnt not to rely on the same landmarks every toss.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Be very careful the K factor is high and it can mess up your birds. Many races have high losses during high K factor events.* GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Freebird loft said:


> How important is it to train old birds on the line of flight? Reason is this Saturday morning I have to go out of town which will be straight North instead of NE my line of flight. The distance will be 65 miles, they have already been 45 miles on the line of flight last weekend. Thanks



I guess I might be in the minority, because I don't think one has to "train" a pigeon to find home, that comes quite naturally. My 1st training toss for a pair of late hatches the other year was 192 miles, and it was not a problem. The whole purpose for training along the line of flight, IMHO, is #1 conditioning and #2 to get them to "break" for home, and indeed race home. I have no idea if this works in practice, except for the one show which aired on TV which showed a pigeon taking a more direct route after being released a number of times from a location. 

If you happen to guess right as to where a portion of the flock might fly near some 50-60 miles from your loft, the thinking is that repeated releases from that location, may cause they to "break" from the flock, with them thinking...hey I know where I am now, and just taking off from the flock like a bee...and high tailing it home. That is at least the theory behind training along the flight path. That and they might just break at the release point, heading in the direction towards home, because that is always the direction they head. Have no idea if this type of training has any bearing on their performance. And never took the time to reinvent training, or do a scientific study on the matter so pretty much just went along with the concept of training along flight path as the guys who were doing well in the combine were doing that.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Yeah I agree, This applies the same when it comes to the birds going off track, If you never train off the line of flight they *may veer off track and get lost if they have never learnt not to rely on the same landmarks every toss*.


What do they do when they are released from a location which they have never seen before and thus have no landmarks to use as reference ?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> What do they do when they are released from a location which they have never seen before and thus have no landmarks to use as reference ?


They make it home, but not in record time do they?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

NZ Pigeon said:


> They make it home, but not in record time do they?


I don't know, because as a YB specialist, all of my record times at the longer race stations, were accomplished under race conditions on the 1st and only release from that location. So the bird never had an opportunity to race again from that location to determine if he would "Speed Up" as the result of having been raced from there before, and presumably benefiting from familiar landmarks to race home by. 

The evidence would suggest that multiple releases from the same release point, as in say a 55 mile training toss. Can increase their speed, by developing a more direct route. Which is why we train along what we perceive as the flight path. So when your bird is in a flock of pigeons an hour or so away, he has been there 50 times before, so simply "breaks" for home, and makes a bee line right to the landing board. 

But, your one post suggested training off the flight path in case the flock becomes lost, they will come across a previous training area, and thus find their way home. Since the release point could be hundreds of miles from the last "off the line of flight" training toss. I tend to view it's training value as negligible. However, I don't see how it could really hurt either. Given a choice between just a few training tosses along the line of flight, or a much greater number of training tosses from a greater variety of locations, I think I would lean towards the latter. After all, I don't think the "perfect" training system has been invented yet. 

Well, that is the theory anyway, at least inside my head.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

And then of course there is this...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1453494/How-do-homing-pigeons-navigate-They-follow-roads.html


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I think there's a huge difference in training your birds to "memorize" their way home as opposed to "teaching" them the way home.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

*Temperature on the Race Day...*

..i think can influence their line of flight. some old timers here in San Diego are saying that when temperature goes up during the race day the birds seem to fly close to the coast for cooler temperature. and most lofts that are close to the coast gain more race points as a result.













kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/jview.htm


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Matt Bell said:


> And then of course there is this...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1453494/How-do-homing-pigeons-navigate-They-follow-roads.html


 Which begs the question, which roads are the pigeons following when they are released hundreds of miles from land in the open ocean ? Which roads do they follow then ? The seas lanes ? The direction of ships ?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> I think there's a huge difference in training your birds to "memorize" their way home as opposed to "teaching" them the way home.


 Something tells me, that there just has to be a difference. Yet I am reminded of things I was to memorize in order to pass tests back in school days, when I was supposely being "taught" various subjects. Were they "teaching" me things, was I "learning" things, or just going through an excersize in memory ? Things get a bit confusing to me as I try to determine what actually took place. 

I am willing to concede that releasing a bird from the spot where the race birds will be released from in the coming weeks, does sound like an experience that could assist the bird in finding home faster on the next release. Not exactly sure what takes place with repeated releases away from home, that appears to improve the bird's preformance.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I don't know, because as a YB specialist, all of my record times at the longer race stations, were accomplished under race conditions on the 1st and only release from that location. So the bird never had an opportunity to race again from that location to determine if he would "Speed Up" as the result of having been raced from there before, and presumably benefiting from familiar landmarks to race home by.
> 
> The evidence would suggest that multiple releases from the same release point, as in say a 55 mile training toss. Can increase their speed, by developing a more direct route. Which is why we train along what we perceive as the flight path. So when your bird is in a flock of pigeons an hour or so away, he has been there 50 times before, so simply "breaks" for home, and makes a bee line right to the landing board.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree, It can't cause any harm. 
I was just saying that if you beleive training them on the line of flight is neccesary for them to find home then you also have to look at the possibility that on raceday they may head offtrack, Therefore if you are someone that believes pigeons need landmarks to find home fast then it would be beneficial for them to know the wider area, Not just the line of flight, I personally believe they will find home regardless but surely if they know the wider area they have more chance to make it home faster


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The only landmark that I know of that is worth anything,is the Empire State Bldg in NYC..The birds can probally see it from 15+ miles away...When I read that training from the same place,helps the birds find landmarks,to help speed them up,I chuckle a little.......I have a few video`s of race birds flying together...1,000 to 2,000 birds...They are paying more attention to the birds ahead of them,or besides them....They are flying so fast over the trees....OH !! There`s a tree I`ve seen before !!! dah !!!Fying over just plain land means squat...There are no landmarks in the woods...Tall buildings,as such WOULD be great to have close to home...The birds would pick up on that for a landmark....A lake,a bridge,a whatever that STANDS OUT like a sore thumb is a landmark....Alamo


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> The only landmark that I know of that is worth anything,is the Empire State Bldg in NYC..The birds can probally see it from 15+ miles away...When I read that training from the same place,helps the birds find landmarks,to help speed them up,I chuckle a little.......I have a few video`s of race birds flying together...1,000 to 2,000 birds...They are paying more attention to the birds ahead of them,or besides them....They are flying so fast over the trees....OH !! There`s a tree I`ve seen before !!! dah !!!Fying over just plain land means squat...There are no landmarks in the woods...Tall buildings,as such WOULD be great to have close to home...The birds would pick up on that for a landmark....A lake,a bridge,a whatever that STANDS OUT like a sore thumb is a landmark....Alamo


I live about 50 miles from Stone Mountain, so this is where I plan to train from since it is right down the middle of my flight line ( perhaps 3-4 miles north ). Several of the good fliers live within this line and perhaps this will give them a breaking point. Only time will tell  I still plan to train from any direction also, if my car is going then my birds are too! But if I must spend extra gas money to train it might as well be from the line of flight.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

The thought occurred to me as I was waiting for the sun to come up over the horizon, that as time has gone on, and as the price of gasoline goes up, I have done less road work year by year. There were years when I lost count once I passed 65 or 70 training tosses before the 1st race. I remember one particular year 2005, when 7 of the top 10 pigeons within the UPC combine in terms of champion bird points were SFL birds. The following year, with perhaps 25 fewer training tosses, the individual wins neither increased nor decreased, but there were fewer individual birds even in the top 50 or 100. Not sure exactly what that means, since our local organization does have a 3 bird clocking limit. The additional training tosses however, did appear to have a positive impact, but at a substantial cost in terms of time and money. Quite honestly, it just doesn't feel like it was worth the extra effort. Especially since there is an older guy in our combine that doesn't do a lick of road work and can often be seen ahead of my name on the race sheet. He is well known however for raising a lot of YB's and doing extremely well at loft flying them. Which begs the question, if I did no road work at all, or very little, what difference will it make ? I raced a pair of late hatches in 2010 with no road work, and so their first "toss" was 192 miles. They came home with the rest of them, so why not road train when and where is convenient to you ? Since even a 55 mile training toss will cost $50+ in gas and wear and tear on the automobile. 


We have a member in our club who owns his own trator trailer rig, and so trains from his truck when he hits the road. So, there is no telling which direction their next training toss may be from. I have not been convinced, that even though I suspect that in an ideal traing situation, the first 100 miles of road work should be towards the first race release point. That in this member's situation he may just be better off just doing what he has been doing, and what I was forced to do as a kid. Train from where you need to go anyway.


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## Andyfitz (May 29, 2010)

I am reading this post and trying to decide what I am going to this year as it is my second year racing. I live right outside of Washington DC and my club races west to east right now. For me it is a little southwest. My problem is the traffic in my area if I train on a straight line it brings me right into the crazy metro traffic and it can take me an hour and a half just to do a 20 mile toss. if I go straight west from my loft a 20 mile toss would only take me 45 minutes of driving at the most. So since I am trying to balance raising kids and a busy life with pigeon racing I am thinking for time sake I may just go west from my loft. What do you all think about this?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Go West young man,go West.....I was training SSW for the last 10 years....The race stations are WSW to my loft...I would say on the whole,the yb`s flew a little better...I was just trying to save $$ on gas....I saved $$,and the birds even did a little better to boot....I even shortened my tosses...NO 75/80 mile tosses.....55/60 miles was it..And FEWER tosses overall also.....Alamo


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

When talking to a lot of the racing guys in my area, a lot of them don't do road training farther than 50-60 kilometers, yes KM not miles which would work out to be around 25-30 miles. And the ones that do this do well in the standings.

My club does however do one 80 mile training toss before the first YB race.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> When talking to a lot of the racing guys in my area, a lot of them don't do road training farther than 50-60 kilometers, yes KM not miles which would work out to be around 25-30 miles. And the ones that do this do well in the standings.
> 
> My club does however do one 80 mile training toss before the first YB race.


Lol, I got a wee giggle out of your "yes KM not miles"

Everytime I write something involving distances I go to write KM and then convert it to rough miles, I think we are a minority here with all these Americans using the old metric system. Sorry Off topic I know.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Lol, I got a wee giggle out of your "yes KM not miles"
> 
> Everytime I write something involving distances I go to write KM and then convert it to rough miles, I think we are a minority here with all these Americans using *the old metric system*. Sorry Off topic I know.


Old metric system ? Is there a new one ?


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm so used to the little comparisons between Canadian and American society, like KM and miles, color and colour, "Zee" and "Zed", Guns and hockey sticks, etc etc.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Gurbir Brar B.C. said:


> I'm so used to the little comparisons between Canadian and American society, like KM and miles, color and colour, "Zee" and "Zed", Guns and hockey sticks, etc etc.


Color really infuriates me, along with center (centre) such an annoying little thing causes so many errors in web design lol


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Old metric system ? Is there a new one ?


In New Zealand they changed the system we use, So we went from inches and feet to cms and metres, Kilometres instead of miles and so on, We refer to what we are using now as the new metric system and inches, Feet etc. are referred to as the old.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/internat.htm

this article makes reference to Canada not knowing the "old metric system"


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