# Stunned w injured wing (Feral #3)



## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

I was walking home this evening and beside a hot dog stand was a pigeon huddled against the wall. The owner said that it had been huddled there for three days and refused to eat crumbs he would put out for it. It was difficult to catch it because it ran around quite a bit to avoid us. It attempted to fly a few times, but I've noticed that a lot of his primaries are missing, and couldn't fly off of the ground.

The bird is now in a cozy box. Last time I peeked in, he was standing, but he's still very still and clearly shocked. I'll take pictures tomorrow, I don't want to freak it out more tonight, it seems he had a rough few days. I haven't looked into the wing issue for potential puncture wounds out of fear of scaring/stressing it to death. My feeling is that he's in a fragile state.

Any thoughts? Would it be safe to add water and seeds to the cage and leave it be? Should I start it on Amoxicillin as a precaution?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

HEAT should come first before food. 

Heating pad set on low with towel over it.

When offereing water, use tepid with a pinch of salt and sugar.

Hope he will be OK! Please keep us updated...

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, add the water right away for sure and hold the food a bit until you start to see him produce droppings, probably not going to look great, but we need to make sure things are moving and we'll reassess things in the morning. If you feel he would be up to it, have a look in his mouth and down the throat for any cheesy looking growths.

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Woops, forgot to mention: I did take a look at the throat and things look canker-free. The feathers are nice and clean for the most part, too. No grease staining.

I've just added a cup of water in the cage. There were two poops. The colours looked right, but the consistency was a little soft(but not wattery)


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Do you think there was a predator attack as opposed to a collision type of injury? Did you check for puncture wounds? Is this a jouvenile?

fp


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit said:


> There were two poops. The colours looked right, but the consistency was a little soft(but not wattery)


Sounds good, glad the throat was clear. Photo possible of droppings?

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, forgot to mention, I don't know how you got things set up, but if you can arrange things so he can see the other to guys you are looking after right now, it will help his stress levels go down and let him settle in a bit.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB, 


Wow...


You shall soon be telling us of your new Farm out in the sticks, with lots of roomy rooms!



Make sure his Vent is 'clean'...and if not, tell of what's there...

See if his Body has any smells or odors...same with his Open Beak/Throat/Breath with Beak open...


Images of poops/urates...


Check his Crop for contents - liquids...solids...Seeds...


Kinda sounds like a Dog or Cat predation escapee...who muddled on.

Might be prudent to begin systemic Antibiotics so long as you find his Crop to be passing whatever ( if anything much ) is in it now...kinda sounds like it is ( passing things ) .

He's pooping, so that is good of course!

"ACV-Water"


If a predation escapee...today is already "Day 3" or maybe even "Day 4" so...begin systemic oral antibiotics now, if you wish to be prudent.

"Day 4" is often the end for many who escape Dog or Cat maulings...even with antibiotic intervention...some are tougher...many aren't...


Check him over also for any hints of subtle 'bumps' under the Body Feathers.

He may have been shot...then mauled, once fallen/grounded...

He may have been sick, then mauled, once grounded...


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Dobato said:


> DanceBiscuit, forgot to mention, I don't know how you got things set up, but if you can arrange things so he can see the other to guys you are looking after right now, it will help his stress levels go down and let him settle in a bit.
> 
> Karyn



'Float' him in your palms...Legs dangling...him facing away from you...walk him gently to be held out at eye level with the other Birds where-ever they are perching...let them visit a moment or two that way...the initial guided 'Tour'...


Hold him same way, only facing you, up to your Eye level, for your having his Introductory Conversation on why you brought him home, and what your intentions are.



This will greatly put him at ease...


'Look Out' Holes in his Box...also...of course...and Box at no less than standing elbow height..on a Table or as may be...no less than that for height.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> If a predation escapee...today is already "Day 3" or maybe even "Day 4" so...begin systemic oral antibiotics now, if you wish to be prudent.


Immediately - if not sooner.....


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok....

I haven't found anything alarming other than a broken blood feather(that stopped bleeding. Just a tiny one) but something that stood out was the fact that its so 'furry'... still has its winter feathers on? Very dirty dusty downy feathers. He also smells really dusty. I'm not sure what to think of. A lot of the flight feathers are gone, and many tail feathers are broken. His irises are very large and don't react to light too well, but I amount it to stress.

It looks completely stunned.

Gonna take pics now.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sometimes feathers can be in poor condition from bad diet. If you rest the bird's
back on your stomach/chest and extend the wing, will the bird retract it on its' own?

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB, 


Begin the oral Antibiotics now.


Dusty...is probably just that...some conditions he fell into or was dragged through or got through...soon, some self directed Baths will be in order, and he can get himself cleaned up.

For now though, I am worried about a systemic infection from a probable predation scenario...so, Antibiotics should begin "now" I believe.

Dim light, soothing surrounds...ACV-Water...soft cage bottom cloths, in addition...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

poop(the last one wasn't so wattery, this was a nervous poop)









aand the bird:


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,




Ohhhhhhhhhhh...what a sweet little Face there.


Poop looks to me like a develping 'Canker/Trichomoniasis' condition.


Didja start the antibiotics?


Do you have Meds for Canker?


So...other than Feathers missing...Wings seem alright? being held and carried normally?


Do any of them actually eat the Barley or Wheat?


None of the ones here will...Lol...


Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

the only meds I have are Amoxicillin and Doxycyclene. The pigeon isn't eating yet. The only time it moves is when trying to escape my handling of it. Its currently still as a statue and its concerning.

Yes, I gave some of the amoxy suspension

EDIT: Its hard to tell who eats what. All of the pigeons, apart from this 'new' one, are just sharing my living space and eating/drinking out of communal cups. I just sprinkled some seeds in the cage in hopes that it will show interest... I'm really worried because it just looks like intense shock....

Just yesterday I told myself that I wouldn't be taking in anymore rescues until Trouper and Lucy were back in the wild, however, its very difficult to turn away from an injured animal you just happen to stumble upon. This truly is the year of the pigeon....


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,


Okay...good - the Amoxycillin is begun...stay with that for I guess five or six days.


You will need to obtain some Anti-Protozoal Medicine, such as 'Carnidazole' or 'Metronidazole'...the latter can be had of Tropical Fish Supply Stores called 'FishZole'.

Get some tomorrow a.s.a.p.


New Bird is shy, she's been through a rough time, and is likely quite exhausted and stressed from having been through traumas and being grounded and worried for several days.

I would not expect her to be otherwise...so, she may seem withdrawn or a little glazed.

She is also sick/ill, and this can dampen their mood.


Just allow her a small Bowl of the smallest Seeds...Canary or Finch type Mix...no usual or larger Seeds for now.


Tomorrow...give her a good looking over and see if you can find any small scabs or tiny bumps or anything under her Feathers. These can be hard to find. Note them if you find any and investigate their appearence and let us know.

Might not be any...might be some Dog eye tooth punctures or pellet gun holes or who knows.


How many poops so far in how many hours?


Phil
Lv


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

DanceBiscuit said:


> Just yesterday I told myself that I wouldn't be taking in anymore rescues until Trouper and Lucy were back in the wild, however, its very difficult to turn away from an injured animal you just happen to stumble upon. This truly is the year of the pigeon....


....the word gets out in the Feral Pigeon world quickly.....


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

with the help of a friend we gave pidgey a quick bath to hopefully get rid of some of the overwhelming dust. It was bad. Peanuts Pigpen bad.

She's back in her cage, moaning/crying softly now and then, and I'm making sure she's able to see the other pigeons. Viktor is very curious. Not getting flirty yet.

Here are some pics, first, the poop which doesn't look as hopeful as yesterday's droppings. There were approx 5-6 droppings in the cage.

















And now the wing. It looks like there's a break, and a lot of soreness from loosing the flight feathers I think. I wasn't able to find anything else, but again, she's got a LOT of feathers...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,


Cracked or broken Bones will tend to have swelling and or also a 'blueish' discoloration to surrounding tissues.

Contusion, Sprain, similarly...

Over-strain, pulled Muscles, or related, not tending to show swelling or discoloration, but, can put a Wing out of commission for a while, or lessen it's mobility or range.


Far as the images go, I not see anything Broken there...but, you are closer to it than I am.

If the Wing is a little 'droopy', and no lumps of swelling are found...you can just Tape the Primary Feather ends of both Wings, tape them together over their back...and this will give some support to the effected Wing as it heals.

Hard to say on to-days or the overnight poops...but, Canker is very common after trauma/streaa or being 'downed'...or often was preceding being downed.

Is she showing any interest in Seeds yet?



Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

The wings do not look droopy, I'll just keep an eye on that wing tip.
So far, she hasn't shown interest in food or drink. I've tried to just peck at the seeds with my finger, but if she still shies away, I'll have Viktor eat seeds just outside of her cage. That got Trouper eating when he was first found...

I'm at a complete loss

EDIT: wohoo! having Viktor eat outside of her cage worked! She's still shy and doesn't want to go near the seed bowl(yet) but ate a good number of the seeds scattered in the cage. Its so cute/funny. Viktor will peck at a few seeds then look up expectantly at her as though saying "eat, dummy!" d'awwe... yep, I just looked over and she's eating a bit more. I think his presence is putting her at ease... helping her make sense of this alien world I dragged her into..

YET ANOTHER EDIT: She 'found' the food and water dishes! Hasn't had anything to drink that I know of, but she's finally eating!!!!!!!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well done!

Good strategy...

Having same species 'Good Will Ambassadors' on hand, is always a big help!


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

yep!
I'm still concerned because she freezes up when she sees me, so there's a huge trust issue there. I really hope she doesn't stress herself to death..


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

She won't...

Let her see you interacting with your other Pigeons in friendly ways...and she will have more to go on.


Some Pigeons have had bad, to very bad experiences with 'people' previously, and they may be hard to win over...

So, just be gentle, show examples she will be able to see and consider.


Give her some 'space'.


You can try 'floating' her in your Palms, and having a soothing re-assuring conversation Eye to Eye, her about a foot from your face as you sit and hold her.


Might help...

Just explain you are not those other people whom she found disagreeable, you understand she is hurt and you wish to offer hospitality and food and water and safety and so on.

This can go a long way sometimes...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Behaviour: she growls a bit and shakes/slaps her wings to her body. Is this hostility?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Sounds like things are going well ! 

Just a Q...if the wing doesn't droop....what makes you think it is broken ? From the looks of your pic on page one (BTW, VERY pretty homegurl there...a real beauty !) it is a classic close escape from a predator, IMHO. Pulled primary flights and missing (perhaps dropped ?) tailfeathers, all on the same side. Could just be in a hecka lotta pain from having those flights pulled.

If y'all get a bit lucky, the amoxycillin will take care of the infection and swelling and she may start to utilize it again. If she's wingslapping w/ both wings, already that's a good sign.....

Do keep an eye on her liquids, though. If the poops become any dryer or ball-like, you are gonna have to do some serious hydration augmentation.

Other than that, keep it up !!!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> Behaviour: she growls a bit and shakes/slaps her wings to her body. Is this hostility?




I think this is fear and anxiety...frustration...uncertainty of her surrounds or what lay ahead...I think she is worried and upset.


She may have had people try and kick her, or who knows...


Maybe try Lap Towel Seed Bowl, with a light cloth draped over her...or any other re-assuring and soothing 'friendly' things you can think of.


Just talking to her ingenuously and in soothing tones can help...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Jaye said:


> Just a Q...if the wing doesn't droop....what makes you think it is broken ?


That white bit in the picture didn't look straight, but Phil is right: if it was broken, there would have been definite bruising and other signs.

Her poops are more ball-like with no sign of urates. Should I 'feed' her water like I do the meds?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, I am posting a link with some photos of "normal" droppings. When a bird is on meds they can effect the way droppings may normally look. If he seems to be eating and drinking well enough, I would just leave things be, as their are inherent dangers in administering fluids to a bird, best to be avoided by someone not used to doing it, if at all possible.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=254270&postcount=44

Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

IMHO people can start getting nuts about 'reading' poops (not that one shouldn't pay attention to them, but just don't get all caught up in it).

If the poops are getting ball-like, then ...yes, she needs more water. You can do one of 3 things:

1) water via syringe, but be careful just to 'lay' some into the front of her mouth and not 'squirt' it into the back, where it can aspirate her. She'd need quite a bit over the day....maybe 8-10 cc in a few separate feedings, if you think she is at least experimenting with the water bowl.

2) buy some Pedialyte infant (human) drink and syringe her that instead (preferably unflavored but flavored is OK too). In this case, 4-6 cc/day should be fine to keep her hydrated.

3) go to handfeeding/'veggie-popping' thawed corn and peas for a few days. If she is eating some seed on her own, then you only need to do maybe 20 pieces of corn/pea split up into 2 handfeedings a day. Lotsa water in those.

You will probably only need to do this for 3 days or so.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Images?


Downed Pigeons very often have Trichomonal infections, early stages or as may be.

Other bacteria or micro-organisms similarly can assume pathological involves for the Bird being 'downed'...

No visible Urates now is odd, but might be from the Amoxicillin.


But, if anything, she should be interested to be drinking more Water than usual, rather than less, if she is 'flushing' her Kidneys.

If she is not liking the ACV-Concentration...may as well back off a ways, and find a concentration she will be alright with.


She needs to be drinking...so, try some things and see what works.


I have been adding a good slug of Lemonade or Limeade ( made with light Sugar and not 'corn sweetener', but pretty tart even at that, ) to the Bird's Drinking Water here, and, they seem to like it...they made some quizzical expressions at first...a tentative sip, savor, then they'd think about it...then drink 'Like Horses'...so...

Lemon or Lime Juice would work fine also...for their Summer Water now and then.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Today she gave me a few smart wing slaps and is moving a bit more in her cage(though still remains pretty still). Ive added a tad of beer into the drinking water and will see if that does any good. Its hard to tell if she's drinking if I don't see her first hand. The urates are back though, which is good. She's also being more vocal and grumpy when Viktor is near the cage. It seems she's giving warning signs.

I'll update and address prev. posts and take pictures tomorrow after work.

ps: Trouper's doing good and he's also being a bit hostile towards Lucy, the second stringfoot. I'll take pics/update about them tomorrow as well.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...could be 'Lucy' is actually 'Lucious' or even 'Luciano'.

You will rarely loose money betting against my ability to guess genders correctly when from a fleeting glance at an image...Lol...

I have some FIERCE Hens here though, as fierce or fiercer as any Males I have seen, when it comes to their Territory or Cages when Caged, anyway.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

DB...did I read 'Beer' ? If that's serious...please get that outta his/her cage ASAP. Alcohol will kill a bird, especially one which is underwieght and under-hydrated.

In my observation, and according to my vet, too....it is not atypical for Ferals in an emaciated state to STOP drinking water in the wild. It becomes sort of a cascading effect. Starts with al illness which effects appetite or weight-gain, then as they start feeling crummier, they stop eating and drinking...which exacerbates everything.

The poops aren't alarmingly dry...yet. When they get alarmingly dry, they literally feel like they were made hours ago. If they are getting wetter, then she's drinking when you aren't looking. Nevertheless, if teh poops are still on the dry lumpy side...I would suggest you STOP relying on the water dish and just get some Pedialyte and start syringe-feeding it. It won't take much...maybe 2 or 3 'feedings' of about 1-2cc's for each feeding.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,



Well...how many poops-in-a-day is Lucy making?

And...what are they looking like?

Some Pigeons drink more ( or less ) than others, even when everything is fine Health Wise.

I see this here with various caged convelescents recovering from injury.


Those who are drinking a lot, usually are trying to 'flush' their system so to speak, and have some sort of issue going on Kidney wise or Intestine wise, or as may be, which, once resolved, sees them drinking less.

Anyway...


The poops?


Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

The poops!

















The pigeon!









He's still getting Amoxicillin. I've tried the bread ball method and it works much better: He often refused the drops, or just wouldn't swallow. He's back on water with ACV. He's pooping a bit more frequently, approx 10 poops/day(hard to tell with a few of the piles)

He's been more active lately, and has been eating quite a bit(and drinking by the looks of it). He also vocalizes a bit now and then, and seems to get territorial now when Viktor is near. He's currently out of his cage, showing interest in his surroundings and to the other birds. Quite a difference from what he was when he first came! I will be putting him back in the cage overnight, however, since he can't fly, I don't want him to hurt himself/get stuck....

I'm concerned that there's parasites or something wrong that I can't diagnose. Right now he's vocalizing, but isn't puffing up, just looking around while standing on one foot. I guess I just don't know his behaviour that well, I'm just really concerned that he's in pain(this is very different from string foot damage afterall)


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

He's very attentive when I speak to him, but he's still INCREDIBLY fearful, and put up a good struggle when I put him back into his cage. Again, I just don't want him to stress out to further sickness.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

If you wanna cover your bases, worm him w/Ivermectin. The poops look OK, just still dehydrated. 

He's fearful because he's a feral and he was already fledged when you found him. 

It's actually good news that he is acting 'against' you...shows some feral spunk. 

If you really think he's in any sort of pain or discomfort, you could dose him with some liquid children's Motrin or Advil. Children's formula in the bottle (100mg/5ml is the typical suspension it comes in), give .05cc 2x/day. Give an hour or more apart from the antibiotic. Probably not necessary, but it's your call.

Pretty fella...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Ya, he's a handsome one. I forgot to mention: I'm unable to get ivermectin from the supplier I use, they're currently out of stock and it will take approx two weeks for them to get it in. I will call around to see who has it in stock.

Don't let my last post fool you, I'm very happy that he's being so difficult


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Good lookin' poops...good lookin' Pigeon..!


They stand on one leg when they feel like it...and, not all vocalizing is accompanied by inflating their Crops...


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

If his weight seems good...then he probably doesn't have worms or coccidia. Jedd's or Foy's Supply here in US can certainly get some Ivermectin to you in less than 2 weeks via online order...but again, unless he isn't gaining weight...I doubt it's intestinal parasites.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Update!
The flights are growing! I'm stunned at how quickly they've been coming in...








WOW!

He's been doing well. I've seen him eat/drink, and gets very vocal with Viktor. He's back in a cage by himself to protect him and Viktor from each other.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Very good...

Lovely Quilly Flights!


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