# Pigeon neck is soft and gets bent



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Hi. Today morning I found a baby pigeon who had an eye infection and mucus discharge. There wasn't any canker but he was so puffed up. I took him to check his body temperature and all of a sudden his head got twisted and turned up to 360 degrees. He is walking and flying and eats very well and drinks nicely but his head or neck is a problem. He doesn't have PMV so Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Not sure what is going on with him. Are you sure it isn't PMV? Someone more expert should be answering soon. Thank you for helping him.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I did some research on the internet and his poop is similar to salmonella. I can give a picture of the poop. His head movement is similar to that of the salmonella pigeons. His one eye is kind of swelled up.Anyways to get a clear information I am sending the picture.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

The picture of his poop.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

When you say it's a baby pigeon, about how old would you estimate?

The poop is certainly nothing like 'normal', agree. I have seen poop like that with Salmonellosis but also with E.coli. PMV generally has, of course, multiple symptoms, and PMV birds are usually trying to behave in a normal pigeon way (they are mobile). Salmonellosis usually means they 'look sick', puffed up, don't hardly move. It is quite possible for parent bird(s) to be carriers of Salmonellosis - we quite often get posts about one baby seeming OK, the other one getting sick and dieing. Problem with poops cane that sometimes it's just bad diet or even a change of diet affects them.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I am really not sure about his age but I can give you his picture. He is active and grooms his body but in his recent poop there are traces of blood. is it Salmonella or any disease so that I can cure him at the earliest?


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Picture of the pigeon. He doesn't have a white lining on the nose so I suppose he is a baby. And the poop nearby him you can see the traces of blood.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Picture of his recent poop after feeding him peas and eating grains by his own.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Poop update.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Please help me! His head is going REALLY weird. I need help seriously!


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Help!!!! Help really really needed!!


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

All you can really do right now is keep him in a comfortable, soft cage or box, hand feed him if necessary and also ensure he has water. If you have other birds, keep him totally separated. Unless you can send some poop samples to a facility that will do test for bacteria and parasites, it's not possible to know what the problem actually is. Poop looks more firm, and better. If he is trying to be active and his head is all over the place it is more _likely_ to be PMV as that is the most common cause of that kind of symptom, but that doesn't rule out another cause of course. 

The blood is, I regret, not something I could make a suggestion about. If he's been in a RTA then it's possible he could have head trauma causing his symptoms, plus internal damage. Possibly a severe infestation of worms, but I really don't know if that would cause bleeding.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The first pic of droppings near the bird actually look like starvation droppings. I don't imagine he has been eating much. The nest pic of the dropping could be because you hand fed him. Salmonella can also cause head twisting. Worms can even cause it if they migrate to the brain. Blood in the droppings can be caused by Cocci or worms, and probably other things as well. He could even have eaten something that has injured him inside. Having the droppings checked would be best to know exactly what you are dealing with. Without that, I would treat with a wide spectrum antibiotic like Baytril, and treat for canker. Canker can cause a lot of mucous and what appears to be the eye infection also. You can't always see canker in their throat, and it often goes hand in hand with other illness. I would also worm him. I did get a new bird in from a bird show, that seemed fine for a couple of days and then he started acting sick and he had blood in his droppings. When I wormed him, he was full of worms, so I wormed the 2 others that I had gotten with him. They all had worms. But he was particularly loaded with them. I didn't know the name of the guy I had gotten them from unfortunately, so I couldn't get in touch with him to let him know that his loft was full of birds with worms. Apparently he doesn't take great care of his birds.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is what we got when I wormed him, and yes there was lots of blood in his droppings. I'm surprised he survived. One can only imagine how sick he felt, yet he didn't show it for the first couple of days. That is what they do.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Looks like the worm treatment worked. Eeewwww. 
The bird with the neck problem sure looks like he has PMV and would definitely benefit from feeding and supportive care.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I am really telling it's not PMV because I had an experience with another bird I rescued.Anyway I will try my best to take him to a vet. His symptoms are similar like salmonella. He had diarrhea when I first bought him and he had a lot of small injury here and there in his body. I already noticed him standing all puffed and sick in a window a day before i bought him. Is ciproflaxcin safe for pigeons? Because I don't have baytril at home.i am giving him prebiotics just in case of worms


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, you can use Cipro, not as good as Baytril, but you can use it. Of course it depends on if whatever it is, is sensitive to Cipro.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Rosequartz said:


> I am really telling it's not PMV because I had an experience with another bird I rescued.Anyway I will try my best to take him to a vet. His symptoms are similar like salmonella. He had diarrhea when I first bought him and he had a lot of small injury here and there in his body. I already noticed him standing all puffed and sick in a window a day before i bought him. Is ciproflaxcin safe for pigeons? Because I don't have baytril at home.i am giving him prebiotics just in case of worms


Probiotics don't deal with worms. You need a pigeon worming product, maybe ivomectin or moxidectin.

If he does have worms, they won't cause the 'PMV like' symptoms. It's actually worm _larvae_ from raccoon worms which can reach the brain. That would kill him pretty quick.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I took him to a vet and she told it has PMV. I really sure it's not PMV because it's poop is so solid and it's not watery but it's head is in a very bad condition. At least before it could hold it's neck straight but now it's going fully down. I so scared right now because it couldn't lift it's head. Any ideas to provide a support to his neck? That would be REALLY helpful


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I was rubbing his neck and found some 'knots' formed on his nerve in the sense his nerve is twisted. Any ideas to keep his neck straight because I REALLY need help right now


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Poops really are not a good guide by themselves. The 'typical' PMV poop is pretty much liquid with a few small, broken worm-shaped droppings. But, that is often the first sign and happens before we even realise a pigeon may have PMV or a PMV-like problem. It's due to kidney problems, and sometimes I've our pigeons who long ago got over the actual virus doing these droppings.

Is his head twisting upside down, or is it just hanging down almost like it's broken?


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I need some support for his neck because it's not at all standing straight


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I took a pic of the pigeon neck while he was twisting it he was on my mom's lap


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Is it any disease cause I took him to a vet who told they don't have a laboratory tests for pigeons


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't put a support on his neck. It will probably get better when he gets over whatever this is. The problem being that if it is PMV, then you just have to give supportive care and wait for him to get through it. If it is Salmonella, then he needs treatment with Baytril or something that would help. But you really don't want to treat if PMV and won't help him. But if Salmonella and not treated then he will die. I don't know what to tell you.
Don't you have vets there who can do tests?


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Vets here show importance to falcons. Not pigeons. And if they see me bringing my pigeon to a Canadian or British or American hospital, they would most probably kill because my vet told that my pigeon has PMV and they wouldn't let me bring to the hospital. I am trying my very best cause it's difficult to watch all night whether it's head is up or down did you the picture? Can PMV occur like this?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I saw the pic. But not possible to tell whether it is PMV or Salmonella. Does he walk at all? Can he eat? Drink?


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I came back from school right now. I kept him with me all night holding his neck and he felt comfortable and started sleeping. And I got good news. My mom was standing by his side and kept him on our window to expose him to some sunlight and his head became straight again! I started ciproflaxcin day before yesterday and he is doing good. His head is not falling down that much now


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Sure he can eat, drink and he runs away to find a dark spot. He even try's to fly away from me I am giving him vitamin water and extra B1 supplement.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Good stuff! They often do recover from the neurological problems to a great extent, sometimes to the point where they look completely 'normal'. However, some are left with the effects of the virus and although able to cope in a safe environment, are not completely free of the effect - or can have recurrences of the effects without being infectious.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

The thing is that he sometimes keep is head up and sometimes down. I will give a picture of him I made a pillow for him to keep his head


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Here he is posing for the photo


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Sorry for not replying. He is doing well but he always keeps his eyes shut and his eyes are swelled. I am giving him Gentadex for eyes and recently in his poop I have noticed some bubbles. What does that mean?


----------



## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

Rosequartz said:


> Sorry for not replying. He is doing well but he always keeps his eyes shut and his eyes are swelled. I am giving him Gentadex for eyes and recently in his poop I have noticed some bubbles. What does that mean?


For eye infection use can also use Physiol (sodium chloride at 0.9 percent) which you can find at the local pharmacy.

I suggest you get a heating pad to keep him warm. 
How is his crop ? Is he digesting his food properly? Also what color is the poop? 
If crop is slow and digestion is slow then mix some apple sauce for babies( unsweetened) with water and give it him. Feed him Purina puppy chow or peas. Also a small amount of yogurt. 

Just some extra info -
there Is a difference between PMV and Salmonella -
In PMV the bird is more active and responds while in Salmonella the bird is very weak and death is quick + paralysis. I once had a baby pigeon who was fine but the next day it became paralyzed and died. Poop is also very green but the poop cannot be the sole reason you have to observe other symptoms before treatment.

PMV bird with survive but you need to hand feed and give it extra care since its nervous system is damaged. Bird can develop secondary infection such as e coli and canker due to the stress it puts on the system. So observe it carefully.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Thanks dotty for your concerns. I am already giving ciproflaxcin along with lot of peas. I am also giving gentadex eyes drops for pigeons. Did you see the photo of my pigeon? He is active but sometimes his head is straight sometimes not. He eats food on his own and also drinks water. Only only thing problem is his head


----------



## Dotty (Nov 4, 2016)

Rosequartz said:


> Thanks dotty for your concerns. I am already giving ciproflaxcin along with lot of peas. I am also giving gentadex eyes drops for pigeons. Did you see the photo of my pigeon? He is active but sometimes his head is straight sometimes not. He eats food on his own and also drinks water. Only only thing problem is his head


His nervous system will recover slowly by itself so no need to worry too much.
He is really cute


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Thank you dotty


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

His eyes are swelled. And he didn't open them this whole day.well he opened very very little during eating.Any ideas to solve this?


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

His eyes are swelled badly. Any advice?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your bird could have Chlamydia. If so then will need treatment with Doxycycline for 2 weeks.
Use good hand washing when handling him.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

I gave him Cipro for 8 days and then I received the baytril from the vetinary shop and gave that for 2 which gives 10 days which is required to treat salmonella (if it was actually there). He didn't do really well the medicines so I stopped it. Now I am only giving him peas and vitamin water along with extra B1 supplement and he is eating on his own he is doing really well sorry for not updating for so long


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Here he is sleeping after grooming his body


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Rosequartz said:


> I gave him Cipro for 8 days and then I received the baytril from the vetinary shop and gave that for 2 which gives 10 days which is required to treat salmonella (if it was actually there). He didn't do really well the medicines so I stopped it. Now I am only giving him peas and vitamin water along with extra B1 supplement and he is eating on his own he is doing really well sorry for not updating for so long


If Salmonella, the treatment is for 3 weeks to cure the carrier stage. If not treated long enough, they may remain carriers and can then spread it to others. When on Baytril or many other antibiotics, but especially Baytril, they should also be on Nystatin or similar, as they will often get a yeast infection from taking the drug.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

The reason why I stopped the medication is because once I gave him, he started to become more tired and his heart beat lowering down. He lost his interest to eat and drink on his own. Whatever peas I gave him didn't actually help him much. His weight can be less that 100 grams. I even diluted the baytril syrup but he became worse. now he is so active and energetic. Me or the vet didn't have a exact clue about his problem so as a broad spectrum I just gave him this medication. I will update more on him


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Thanks for all your help he is getting much better thank you so much everyone!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I was just clarifying that 10 days doesn't clear Salmonella, so if that is what it was, that 10 days is not enough.


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Ok thank you


----------



## Rosequartz (Jun 29, 2016)

Just updating about him. He is doing great and we are still continuing with Baytril. He can eat with his head straight but sometimes He put it down. He takes sun bath, grooms his feather and tries to fly but his head is not coordinating with him.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear he is doing better.


----------

