# Taking care of a pigeon (putting it down)



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I just looked around and couldn't find a thread that dealt with this, so I thought I would start one.

I know this is going to be a sensitive subject, but it's one that I feel should have certain amount of importance. It's something I feel I should know before the need arises. I hope/pray I would never need to know it, but I think I should at least have some idea of what others do.

What do you do with a pigeon that needs to be "put out of it's misery" ASAP? (This is assuming you could not get a vet)

I can't remember where I read it, but some kid had a pigeon that got it's leg ripped off-probably by a cat. It was bleeding to death. I can't remember what happened, but I wondering what I would do in that situation.

So, if you couldn't get to a vet and you needed to help your bird end it's suffering what would you do? Do you have a plan? Can you get a shot from your vet to have on hand?

I know with horses we've breeched this uncomfortable subject before. We all know where to put a bullet if the need arose. It's very sad, but in light of a painful deadly injury it is necessary to know. (I should note this method would ONLY be used on a horse if you were hundreds of miles out on a trail ride)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think you are in a city where getting a bird to a vet for euthanisa wouldn't be a difficult thing to do. If you didn't have time to get the bird to the vet, you would just let the bird pass on it's own.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't think any discussion on this topic is likely to fare well.

For starters, different people, with different levels of knowledge and experience, would probably have very different ideas on what constitutes a situation where the 'kindest' thing is to put a bird down. 

There are cases when even a well disposed vet, or rehabber, might suggest that is the best option yet an individual who does not give up hope can pull a bird through. I've seen this more than once.

I'd suggest that it is better to seek advice from the best sources one can find at the time on any such case if it arises. 

As you say, it's the kind of thing one hopes it will never actually be necessary to know about or do (and, like some other things in life, the kind of choice one hopes never to have to make)

John


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moonshadow, I agree 100% with what John just said. This is always a delicate (to put it mildly) subject.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I have had advice from a rehabber on what is the best thing to do, but dont think i could ever do it myself, and am lucky i have many places here that are MORE then willing to euthanise animals! I have only used them when i didnt know better, and if i come across something hugely wrong with an animal, i try to find help first, stabilize the animal in the meantime to the best of my ability. 
I think it is best to get help, but i understand not all people can get help. Touchy subject, hope i never have to come across such a dilemma. Hope NONE of us do!


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

i agree with John, never loose the hope and then if, no hope is left anymore and no vet around, just let them pass gently in your arms, because it is terrified enough already for them to go thru that process. I dont even wanna remember the ones i was there to watch and cry and swear I will never do rehab again, never.

Nell


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

corvid said:


> i agree with John, never loose the hope and then if, no hope is left anymore and no vet around, just let them pass gently in your arms, because it is terrified enough already for them to go thru that process. I dont even wanna remember the ones i was there to watch and cry and swear I will never do rehab again, never.
> 
> Nell


I agree whole heartedly with every sentence you wrote. I don't even want to remember how many birds and animals I have held, stroked, talked to, hugged, cried and begged God to take them while they were in my arms. 
But they deserve the chance, and I have to try. 
When ever I get a new orphan or one of my *pigeons* are sick, some of my co-workers will say to me "you need to let it go, you can't try to save everything" My response - "If God wanted it to die, he wouldn't have given it to ME" That shuts them up!


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Love you Msfreebird.

Nell


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

corvid said:


> Love you Msfreebird.
> 
> Nell


Love you both.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I love all three of you  Now someone top that off. By saying i love all four of you. Haha. Anyway i would never put anything down. You never know when a miracle can happen. I once had a pure white Highflying hen that flew, drank some water...walked around in the garden and died 2 feet away from me for no reason. Sometimes you can't do anything. Everything in the world happens for a reason. God wants somethings to stay longer than others for a particular reason. So i always just do my best when any of my pigeons are sick. And after that let god decide what needs to be done.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I guess all that answers moon's question....Im teary eyed now darn it........ love all around...there....


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Yes, I think my questions were answered, now here's one more. Do they have a humane method of "putting down" for birds? I was just wondering if that even existed. I just remember a friend of mine had a pet rat with this huge painful tumor. She knew it was suffering, but couldn't put it down because the only way was a VERY painful method. It's the same method I think some Humane Societies use. It's shot directly to the heart.

Okay and one more... If you were to do what you are all talking about "letting them keep living until their wound kills them" is there pain meds for birds? Like, could you effectively treat them for pain somehow?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

moonshadow said:


> Yes, I think my questions were answered, now here's one more. Do they have a humane method of "putting down" for birds? I was just wondering if that even existed. I just remember a friend of mine had a pet rat with this huge painful tumor. She knew it was suffering, but couldn't put it down because the only way was a VERY painful method. It's the same method I think some Humane Societies use. It's shot directly to the heart.
> 
> Okay and one more... If you were to do what you are all talking about "letting them keep living until their wound kills them" is there pain meds for birds? Like, could you effectively treat them for pain somehow?


first question, here my work is a vet hospital, to put a beloved pet down it is anestisized, then gets a shot to stop the heart, it is painless.

second..yes their is pain meds and management, just like for humans...it surprizes me you did not know this as you had a horse and lived on a farm


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I know about pain meds for horses, but as you know horses are not birds.  And if a chicken gets sick or injured we usually loose them before we know there's anything wrong.

New question what kind of pain meds are available and can you keep them on hand? With horses the common pain med is BUTE and it's in paste form. Very easy to keep on hand and administer as needed.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

We use Metacam if we have a pigeon or dove with a problem which would seem likely to be causing pain. Don't know if that is a UK only name or a general one. It is a veterinary prescribed drug here, so not something we would just be able to stock up on 'in case'. 

John


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We use Metacam too and it is a drug I have never thought to ask the vet if I could stock it. Next time I see her, I'll ask. 

Many members, like us, have access to a vet 24/7 so our ending a bird's life is nothing we consider. However, there are many members in more remote areas that don't have help available. I can't honestly say what should be done if presented with a bird that is so damaged that I know nothing I can do will help. If it is a general "sickness" rather than a trauma, I'm sure I would opt to provide TLC during its final hours but I would have to think very hard about what to do if the injury is severe and you know the bird is suffering terribly. I just don't know and that is being honest about my feelings.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

This is a link to an interesting 29-page PDF. Even if you are never involved directly in euthanasia, it gives an idea of what veterinarians must take into consideration in their dealings with animals, the owners of the animals, the general public, and other veterinarians, and what is currently expected of them.

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf



> *AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia*
> 
> (Formerly Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia)
> 
> June 2007


Larry


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Some of you have said this subject won't go down well but I don't think it was wrong of Moonshadow to ask, he/she is coming from a caring place rather than callous. I rehab birds, I have been shown how to euthanase a bird without injection (swift blow to the head resulting in the bird becoming instantly brain dead), it was very upsetting to watch and I have never been able to do this myself, the reason she showed me is because more than one rehabber (Nooti/Helen being one of them) had said that euthanasing by needle can be incredibly painful for a bird and that a swift knock to the head is instant and painless, so my intentions were geared to what I thought was best for the bird, however as I said I could not bring myself to do this myself, and in my experience over the past 6 or 7 years and having had several birds put to sleep via needle at the vets, I have to say I (or should I say the bird) have only had two bad experiences, one where it took a woodpigeon 20 minutes to die and another where a coal tit took at least 10 minutes to die, one was an inexperienced vet and the other is our wonderful 'avian' vet (said in sarcastic tone).
I have cared for hundreds of birds and putting to sleep is part of caring, it upsets me when it has been implied to me that I shouldn't give up just yet, when I have already agonised (usually for weeks or months) on what to do for the best, euthanasia is not something I take lightly but it is unrealistic for a rehabber to never euthanase, it's just not possible, if I had kept some of the birds alive which I have cared for it would have been cruel, as a conscientious rehabber I have learnt to know when a critically ill or disabled bird is going to recover enough to have quality of life, and I have learnt that you can't save them all, they sometimes make that decision for me, they will go downhill bit by bit because they're not recovering, will stop eating and there is no sign of improvement.
With hindsight I have kept birds going for too long sometimes when I knew deep down they weren't going to recover.
Having said all that I rarely have feral pigeons put to sleep as even badly disabled ones can adapt in captivity, occasionally I have acutely sick ones put to sleep if they aren't responding to drugs etc and there is little or no hope and the bird is clearly suffering, it starts to feel cruel. If a badly disabled one doesn't cope in captivity, then I would call it a day, because I care about each birds' welfare, not because I don't.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ali...I do agree with you in part. I think it's criminal to leave an animal suffer when there is no hope. 
My worry with descriptions about" HOW TO" is that we have a wide audience of members and readers that may take the "HOW TO" into their own hands and botch it terribly. We have no control over the actions of those that read our written words.
Personally, I could not take the life of any creature.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AliBlack said:


> Some of you have said this subject won't go down well but I don't think it was wrong of Moonshadow to ask, he/she is coming from a caring place rather than callous. I rehab birds, I have been shown how to euthanase a bird without injection (swift blow to the head resulting in the bird becoming instantly brain dead), it was very upsetting to watch and I have never been able to do this myself, the reason she showed me is because more than one rehabber (Nooti/Helen being one of them) had said that euthanasing by needle can be incredibly painful for a bird and that a swift knock to the head is instant and painless, so my intentions were geared to what I thought was best for the bird, however as I said I could not bring myself to do this myself, and in my experience over the past 6 or 7 years and having had several birds put to sleep via needle at the vets, I have to say I (or should I say the bird) have only had two bad experiences, one where it took a woodpigeon 20 minutes to die and another where a coal tit took at least 10 minutes to die, one was an inexperienced vet and the other is our wonderful 'avian' vet (said in sarcastic tone).
> I have cared for hundreds of birds and putting to sleep is part of caring, it upsets me when it has been implied to me that I shouldn't give up just yet, when I have already agonised (usually for weeks or months) on what to do for the best, euthanasia is not something I take lightly but it is unrealistic for a rehabber to never euthanase, it's just not possible, if I had kept some of the birds alive which I have cared for it would have been cruel, as a conscientious rehabber I have learnt to know when a critically ill or disabled bird is going to recover enough to have quality of life, and I have learnt that you can't save them all, they sometimes make that decision for me, they will go downhill bit by bit because they're not recovering, will stop eating and there is no sign of improvement.
> With hindsight I have kept birds going for too long sometimes when I knew deep down they weren't going to recover.
> Having said all that I rarely have feral pigeons put to sleep as even badly disabled ones can adapt in captivity, occasionally I have acutely sick ones put to sleep if they aren't responding to drugs etc and there is little or no hope and the bird is clearly suffering, it starts to feel cruel. If a badly disabled one doesn't cope in captivity, then I would call it a day, because I care about each birds' welfare, not because I don't.


the most humane way to but an animal to rest is at the vet...they give the animal/bird anesthesia, BEFORE any injection to stop the heart. IT IS PAINLESS. hitting a bird over the head is not needed when it can be done this way. I would hate to think what would happen if the hitter did'nt do it just right. this may be a solution for a remote area and last resort. I do not know what vet you used before but I would find another one.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> the most humane way to but an animal to rest is at the vet...they give the animal/bird anesthesia, BEFORE any injection to stop the heart. IT IS PAINLESS. hitting a bird over the head is not needed when it can be done this way. I would hate to think what would happen if the hitter did'nt do it just right. this may be a solution for a remote area and last resort. I do not know what vet you used before but I would find another one.


Very well put.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

None of my local vets give anaesthesia before giving the injection, they just get the one injection  Actually, luckily, the ONE and only time they did give sedation was the time it took 20 mins, but I still saw the pigeon struggle for most of that time, it was a nightmare.
I agree, I would hate to think what would happen if someone hit the bird's head and missed, it's awful.
I have put a toad out of it's misery (I wont go into details how), because my partner accidently cut it open with shears when cutting the grass, it's inards were hanging out, literally, but it was still alive, it would have prolonged its suffering to take it to the vet, especially if no vet was at the surgery at the time, I felt I had no option, it would have been cruel to delay it.




spirit wings said:


> the most humane way to but an animal to rest is at the vet...they give the animal/bird anesthesia, BEFORE any injection to stop the heart. IT IS PAINLESS. hitting a bird over the head is not needed when it can be done this way. I would hate to think what would happen if the hitter did'nt do it just right. this may be a solution for a remote area and last resort. I do not know what vet you used before but I would find another one.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

I understand what you're saying, I keep forgetting it's not just rehabbers on this site!




Charis said:


> Ali...I do agree with you in part. I think it's criminal to leave an animal suffer when there is no hope.
> My worry with descriptions about" HOW TO" is that we have a wide audience of members and readers that may take the "HOW TO" into their own hands and botch it terribly. We have no control over the actions of those that read our written words.
> Personally, I could not take the life of any creature.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AliBlack said:


> None of my local vets give anaesthesia before giving the injection, they just get the one injection  Actually, luckily, the ONE and only time they did give sedation was the time it took 20 mins, but I still saw the pigeon struggle for most of that time, it was a nightmare.
> I agree, I would hate to think what would happen if someone hit the bird's head and missed, it's awful.
> I have put a toad out of it's misery (I wont go into details how), because my partner accidently cut it open with shears when cutting the grass, it's inards were hanging out, literally, but it was still alive, it would have prolonged its suffering to take it to the vet, especially if no vet was at the surgery at the time, I felt I had no option, it would have been cruel to delay it.


like I said, if your local vets do not do it the right way, find one that will. if it takes too long to get there in an emergency and you think you need to take matters into your own hands thats your own choice, but I do not think people should be hitting birds over the head when there are vets that do it in a humane manner. if my vet did not use anesthesia I would tell him/her to do so, it is irresponsible not to do so and unprofessional., I do not think it is wise to promote euthanizing creatures by ones own hand, and scare them away from a vet that can do it painlessly. most will not know what to do anyway and need to know they can depend on veteinarian care. I work at a vet hospital and I have never seen it take 20 mins for an animal to fall asleep under anesthesia, my rabbit was spayed and she went under in oh...2 seconds.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

The woodpigeon may have been sedated but he still struggled at times, maybe he wasn't aware of what was going on, I don't know, but it looked to me that because she was trying to find the right place to inject him with the lethal injection that it was painful as she tried several different sites, I thought he flinched. I remember feeling relieved that the one time they had sedated before euthanasing was the one time it took bloody ages for them to inject the bird properly (she was a newly qualified vet). It never occurred to me about sedating first.
But as I said most of the time there is no problem, there has only been 2 birds where it has taken a while and I don't go to those 2 vets anymore, the rest of the time the birds die instantly and there is no need for sedation beforehand, in my experience.
I am not exactly advocating hitting birds over the head, or saying it's something which can be done lightly, I was just giving an account of what I was shown and saying how I couldn't do it, originally I believed it was the quickest most painless way, I'm not saying I think that way now, I don't know enough about it, I might resort to using it if there were no other way, I don't know, maybe I couldn't live with myself if I did, but then how can I live with myself if I let a bird suffer? But what do my feelings matter, the bird comes first, always. Luckily there is usually an alternative for me, but not for everyone if they are somewhere remote, occasionally it takes 24 hours until I can get it to someone if it is on a weekend or bank holiday and I don't feel good about that. Usually though, during surgery hours they can PTS within the hour.
A person using the bang on the head method or breaking the neck would have be to be 100% sure they know exactly what they are doing. I hope I am never in the position where I feel I have no alternative but to end a bird's suffering myself. I am not going to judge anyone who has no choice but to do this.
It isn't easy for everyone to find or to get to a good vet, I don't know of any good avian vets in my area, I don't drive, have agoraphobia and my health is poor, so I have to use what resources I have in my town. Some of the ones in my town are ok, but are certainly not bird experts, the local 'avian' vet asks me for advice, he once passed a dead woodpigeon onto me which had been in a box for 2 days with a gaping, stinking crop wound with grain spilling out, they'd forgotten to ring me about it. He told me it had a 'scratch on his breast', the poor bird died from dehydration. I rang them and told them and got a snotty nurse who sounded p***** off with me, and no I don't use him these days!
I would love the luxury of an avian vet.



spirit wings said:


> like I said, if your local vets do not do it the right way, find one that will. if it takes too long to get there in an emergency and you think you need to take matters into your own hands thats your own choice, but I do not think people should be hitting birds over the head when there are vets that do it in a humane manner. if my vet did not use anesthesia I would tell him/her to do so, it is irresponsible not to do so and unprofessional., I do not think it is wise to promote euthanizing creatures by ones own hand, and scare them away from a vet that can do it painlessly. most will not know what to do anyway and need to know they can depend on veteinarian care. I work at a vet hospital and I have never seen it take 20 mins for an animal to fall asleep under anesthesia, my rabbit was spayed and she went under in oh...2 seconds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AliBlack said:


> The woodpigeon may have been sedated but he still struggled at times, maybe he wasn't aware of what was going on, I don't know, but it looked to me that because she was trying to find the right place to inject him with the lethal injection that it was painful as she tried several different sites, I thought he flinched. I remember feeling relieved that the one time they had sedated before euthanasing was the one time it took bloody ages for them to inject the bird properly (she was a newly qualified vet).
> But as I said most of the time there is no problem, there has only been 2 birds where it has taken a while and I don't go to those 2 vets anymore, the rest of the time the birds die instantly and there is no need for sedation beforehand, in my experience.
> I am not exactly advocating hitting birds over the head, or saying it's something which can be done lightly, I was just giving an account of what I was shown and saying how I couldn't do it, originally I believed it was the quickest most painless way, I'm not saying I think that way now, I don't know enough about it, I might resort to using it if there were no other way, I don't know, maybe I couldn't live with myself if I did, but then how can I live with myself if I let a bird suffer? But what do my feelings matter, the bird comes first, always. Luckily there is usually an alternative for me, but not for everyone if they are somewhere remote, occasionally it takes 24 hours until I can get it to someone if it is on a weekend or bank holiday and I don't feel good about that. Usually though, during surgery hours they can PTS within the hour.
> A person using the bang on the head method or breaking the neck would have be to be 100% sure they know exactly what they are doing. I hope I am never in the position where I feel I have no alternative but to end a bird's suffering myself. I am not going to judge anyone who has no choice but to do this.
> ...


You are one to put the bird first and I admire that...I understand what you are trying to say...alot of people put their emotions first and have a hard time making the decision, when they need to step up and do what needs to be done....any vet can put a bird to sleep, does not have to be an avian vet.as far as people livining remotely, if they live that way they most likly are well versed on doing it themselves, just like in the old days when folks where there own veterinarians. sorry you have had such bad experiences with these so called vets.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> You are one to put the bird first and I admire that...I understand what you are trying to say...alot of people put their emotions first and have a hard time making the decision, when they need to step up and do what needs to be done....any vet can put a bird to sleep, does not have to be an avian vet.as far as people livining remotely, if they live that way they most likly are well versed on doing it themselves, just like in the old days when folks where there own veterinarians. sorry you have had such bad experiences with these so called vets.


Just what do vets charge to put animals to sleep? I've never had to have one put to sleep and hope I don't ever, but you never know.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It depends on where you live. Here, it's about 25-50 dollars for a bird. Depending on the circumstances such as a wild bird or feral, some will just do it and not charge.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Just what do vets charge to put animals to sleep? I've never had to have one put to sleep and hope I don't ever, but you never know.


45 dollars..just for that...but they will try to save an animal if the owner wishes and then you are talking hundreds...bloodwork, surgery, etc..ect....


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> I agree whole heartedly with every sentence you wrote. I don't even want to remember how many birds and animals I have held, stroked, talked to, hugged, cried and begged God to take them while they were in my arms.
> But they deserve the chance, and I have to try.
> When ever I get a new orphan or one of my *pigeons* are sick, some of my co-workers will say to me "you need to let it go, you can't try to save everything" My response - "If God wanted it to die, he wouldn't have given it to ME" That shuts them up!


I just feel that I need to add a little to my earlier post!
The animals and birds that have died in my arms, went quietly. I would NEVER let one *beyond help* suffer. There were many that I had to take to work with me and have put to sleep - they were beyond any help I or anyone else could give them 
The hospital I work at - every bird and animal is sedated before they are euthanized. They feel nothing. Within 5 minutes they are sound asleep, then the 2nd injection is given and their heart stops BEFORE the needle is pulled out.
The problem I have is that most of the rehabbers in my area euthanize if the bird or animal cannot be rehabilitated back into the wild. I don't believe a deformity or defect should be a death sentence.
If I had the $, I'd have an Island sanctuary


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

I wonder, what is the name of the thing my vet does.We do use that, I would called "gas chamber"??. Both things, oxygen and the some kind of anesthetic gas comes thru, so we using the same thing , when needed for surgery or in those 2 cases I saw, to just PTS (has a nub on the side) and she knows precisely how long for whom (that is amazing for me, cause I m bringing there all different sizes: like hummingbird, or Crow), when we need just to anesthetize for operation. Or in cases, where I saw, she will use same thing, so the animal sleeps, and then she will give it injection, to stop the heart. I never saw animal suffer by this method. Although one thing is: animal has to be on empty stomach, cause will regurgitate otherwise.

Nell

Nell


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

corvid said:


> I wonder, what is the name of the thing my vet does.We do use that, I would called "gas chamber"??. Both things, oxygen and the some kind of anesthetic gas comes thru, so we using the same thing , when needed for surgery or in those 2 cases I saw, to just PTS (has a nub on the side) and she knows precisely how long for whom (that is amazing for me, cause I m bringing there all different sizes: like hummingbird, or Crow), when we need just to anesthetize for operation. Or in cases, where I saw, she will use same thing, so the animal sleeps, and then she will give it injection, to stop the heart. I never saw animal suffer by this method. Although one thing is: animal has to be on empty stomach, cause will regurgitate otherwise.
> 
> Nell
> 
> Nell


Isoflourane mixed with O2


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

There you go...that is exactly the thing. Thank You. But does this machine have a name, I know she told me, I just cant remember..

Nell


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

corvid said:


> There you go...that is exactly the thing. Thank You. But does this machine have a name, I know she told me, I just cant remember..
> 
> Nell


Isoflourine (sp) Anesthetic Vaporizer


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