# runny poops



## handya (Jan 21, 2006)

hi all,
pudgy is still here and we have been experimenting with diet.pdpbison mentioned oilier seeds but what type?
I have noticed today that its poo seems runny, although she still seems happy, she even walked in the house last evening so i took the opportunity to grab it and hold it for a while.
It wont eat: peas,rice,popcorn kernels,and most of the grains in the chicken mix,pellets or fruit. It will however eat wheat and picks it out of most things.
I think I will buy a cage and keep her in the house as she just stays outside the door all day and flys to her or his tree at night.(which is quite secure but not dry and once again at middle level window height I think to keep an eye on us)
anyway once again some help on the diet as i noticed the blurb on poo consistency and thought i should ask.
andy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons are designed to eat a variety of grains, cereals and legumes. This will meet his nutritional needs.

Here is an example of a good pigeon seed mix:

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Andy, 


Is this a Wood Pigeon? Or...do you know what kind of Pigeon it is?

Their diets will vary somewhat...

Now, since I do not remember what all led up to this, is this a Wild Pigeon who has been hanging-around, and you have been hospitable, and offering them Seeds? And they seem friendly and so on if a little reserved of course...?


Bring me up to speed here...Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Handya,

The loose poo could be diet, or could be that the bird may have something else going on. Maybe you could try placing a tablespoon of Raw Apple Cidar Vinegar
in a gallon of water and see if this helps at all, rotating w/probiotics and vitamins as well. Could be that a fecal float might be a good idea just to make sure that everything's OK on that end of the spectrum....Also, making sure that the food and water bowls get cleaned out to avoid something growing there that could upset the GI tract.

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Andy,

I don't know how helpful this will be but my bird is healthy, has never been in contact with any bird but his parents as far as I know yet his poops have varied greatly over time. They are all over the place so to speak.

There is what I think of as a normal consistancy yet there are times when they are runny, even horrible. He continues to be in good health. Happy curious and active. My conclusion is that trying to read into the poops is not really as good an indicator as it may seem. How is the bird behaving though. Are there outward signs that cause you to worry. Try typing "poops" into the search request and you will find this is a much discussed subject.

Also, can I pass a thread on to you that Treesa pointed out to me. It is helpful and may put your concerns to rest. Click on:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11637

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, it's true, that there are reasons other than illness that can give a bird runny poo. But the best way to set your mind at rest is a fecal float that can be done for a small fee. Now you know what square one truly is and can start to build from there. If the bird is a female, and she is getting ready to lay eggs,
fertile or unfertile, this can be a cause as well, it's just that if you are concerned, this will set your mind at rest. 

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

*Fecal float*

Hi fp,

About the fecal float. What does it cost and what does it entail and how can you get one done. Can I do it myself with a kit for example?. I may need to do one soon for a new bird I have. Can you get back to me on that. Thanks so much.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cameron,

Fecal floats or other analysis are of course to look for minute biologic entities of parasites or bacteria or as may be, so, one must rather know what these various agents look like under various magnifications and lighting conditions and powers of amplification, in order to determine if one is in fact seeing 'them' or something else...and or to tell them one from another.

This takes the necessary education and experience, and or reference images which I myself do not have, but aspire to take steps toward having.

Some rehabbers, or experienced Avian Veterinarians may be talanted and able at these proceedures...

Some places, such as 'Foys' Pigeon supplies, will do them Mail Order when you send the samples to them second day Air...then call you with the results and discuss them with you.

Prices vary of course...

Now, Andy, the Bird you are writing in about...

If this has thus far been a Wild or feral Pigeon, and has lately been willing to walk indoors, and to let you pick them up and so on, it may signal it is wishing you to help them and is not feeling well at all...so, maybe, for now, arrange some sort of indoor cage ample enough for them, and with a Heating Pad to keep them warm if yours is a cooler clime, and, lay a white Towell on the bottom and keep him under observation for a while to see if there are problems...and see if there are Vets or other in your area or Mail Order in your broader region, for getting a fecal analysis done...

Good luck...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks Phil,

I have read that name Foy's in so many posts before but just never really connected with it. I'll look it up in past posts. If I can't find an address I may write to you if you don't mind.

Cameron


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cameron, 

Here is the website for Foys, you can find their address and phone number there and I believe they have a 1-800 number as well.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We just yesterday, received our first Foy's catalog. This is partly what they say:

..."On the day you plan on mailing the droppings to us, this is the best day to collect them. The freshest droppings is what we want. Go from perch to perch, collect some off the floor or in the nest box. Put these fresh droppings in 2 ziplock bags. We want a heaping tablespoon in each bag. Put these 2 ziplock bags in a padded envelope, available at the PO or office supply store. Do not mail the droppings in a regular envelope. We will have these droppings tested and in 3 or 4 days after we get the samples, we'll call you with the results. It would be helpful if you could describe your pigeon's health problems. If only 1 bird is sick, you can bet the others are also sick but not showing symptoms yet. Please mail express or priority mail. #8000 Droppings Analysis - 2 for $25.00.."

We really depend on these fecal study results and have some done fairly frequently, even if the birds are not showing any symptoms.

Maggie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Cameron, 

Pidgey the Poo has a sticky on the use of microscopes here in the resource section. You'd need to get a microscope and prepare the poop in a salt and water solution, then look at that slide. The initial investment could cost you a few hundred dollars, then you could look at all the poop you could get your hands on, presumably a fair amount  I'm sure if you were interested,
you could find something on EBAY and email the link to Poo for his opinion, he is very good about helping folks.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Feralpigeon,

You get a real kick out of "the poo" part, don'tcha'? Just makes your day, doesn't it?

Camrron,

The thread she's referring to is here:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10561

If all you're going to do is look for worm eggs and coccidial oocysts, then you can make due with a kid's scope as long as it hasn't gotten too dusty to see through. Scanning the slide is aggravatingly tedious with one of those but it's doable if you're patient and have a soft touch.

Now, if you're going to try Gram-staining a fecal smear, you're going to need a better scope but that's another story and I haven't gone into any detail on that one here on PigeonTalk. For those whose ears have perked up, that's a procedure where you carefully smear a sample on a slide, fix it by heating it carefully and then flood the spot with a succession of chemical/stains/rinses to make Gram positive bacteria stain blue and Gram negative bacteria stain red. This way, you can get an idea of the overall balance of "good" to "bad" in the gut. It's not definitive, but it is a rough indicater and is sometimes very helpful. This is a look through the microscope at a Gram-stained fecal smear:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/388039642/2087513640073664377yLTmgN

Here's another thread with some useful info:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11165

Pidgey


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Wow,

Great advice from everyone. Thankyou!

Any tips on what magnification is the minimum acceptable for seeing problems. I think I have a lead on a second hand unit but don't want to spend hard earned money if it is too weak. I am guessing it should have a good light too.

Cameron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For fecal floats you only need 100x. A lot of the kid's scopes that you see have ridiculous magnifications like "1600x" on the high end but may be serviceable on the bottom end. You also have to consider the total magnification which is the eyepiece times the objective lens so 10x X 10x is 100x which is all you need although the kid's scopes vary on what the bottom number is.

Frankly, you can sometimes get a scope that will work for $5 at a thrift store. The image won't be pretty but it can detect when you've got a real problem. Finding 10 coccidia on a slide doesn't mean much but when they're in the 100's, they're pretty easy to pick up as long as your float technique is good and that's pretty easy to do. You can use one with a mirror or a little light bulb, doesn't matter. There are always simple ways to moderate the light if need be.

Realistically, though, you can usually drop off a sample at your vet without a visit and get a cheap fecal done. It's when you do a lot of them that it gets advantageous to learn how to do it yourself. Also, some birds have a knack for showing up on your doorstep half dead on Friday evening when nobody's open for business except the ER of your local hospital and they're amazingly unsympathetic about things like that.

Pidgey


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

*A fixed amount of food.*

Many thanks Pidgey, I am on my way to becoming a backyard scientist I think. 

By the way Andy, I was just re-reading your post and had another thought. My pigeon is a very picky eater too like you mentioned. It could be because he has the good life and so isn't feeling obliged to eat some of the really good stuff I put out. Like peas, corn and other mixed seeds. 

We were in a real Mexican standoff for a few days and his resolve did not break easily. I refused to replenish the dish until some of the good stuff got eaten. He is still picky but you might try doing the same. A very determined bird might refuse food all day (breaking your heart of course) but in the long run they will learn to like a wider variety. I was getting bugged about having to throw out half the food each day when I knew full well the wild pigeons were gobbling up everything I threw their way. You might just have a spoiled bird on your hands. Hope you can find a peaceful balance.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> FeistyPigeon,
> 
> You get a real kick out of "the poo" part, don'tcha'? Just makes your day, doesn't it?
> 
> ...



fp---too old to be continuously FEISTY!!!!


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