# Party's Over!



## Pete Jasinski

Well the unthinkable has finally happened, I came home from work to a warning from the Dept. of Health regarding the feeding of my pigeons hanging on my door. It seems one of my neighbors called in the complaint and shut me down. I'm devastated and at the verge of tears so I'll pop back on later this weekend to expand on this nightmare


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## Whitefeather

Pete Jasinski said:


> Well the unthinkable has finally happened, I came home from work to a warning from the Dept. of Health regarding the feeding of my pigeons hanging on my door. It seems one of my neighbors called in the complaint and shut me down. I'm devastated and at the verge of tears so *I'll pop back on later this weekend to expand on this nightmare*.


I am so sorry Pete.  
Will be waiting for an update. 

Cindy


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## mr squeaks

I'm sorry and upset too, Pete. Will wait for your update!


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## pdpbison

Hi Pete, 


Oye...sends a chill down my spine.

These are free flying, visiting ferals whom you merely feed in your back yard?


And there are ordinances against doing that?

Or, more complicated than that?

I hope you can work it out...!

Good luck!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo

I am so sorry, Pete!

Always there seem to be people watching for something to disapprove of! I bet your visiting pigeons were not likely to cause your neighbours or their property any harm or annoyance, people just disapprove on principle.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking

I'm so sorry, Pete. This is so sad, and always the birds are the victims.

Hopefully you can put food down for them in the dark, when the birds are not around, so they can find it in the morning.

It is terrible that our good deeds end up having to be done by dark of night, because of what miss informed/illeducated people do by day.


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## pigeonmama

Pete,
How sad when such a harmless and kind-hearted activity has to be stopped. A big hug to you and your pidgies.
Daryl


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## KIPPY

I'm sorry to hear about your problem, it is frustrating.
My neighbor has complained a couple times and we had our discussions. Last time my neighbor did not talk to me for a couple months after our verbal disagreement. I'm thinking she may have had other issues going on and she was just lashing out.
I try to feed the guys once a day, right before the sun goes down so I can keep the flock size down. 
Of all the things to worry about in the world and they complain about pigeons.


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## Feather

Pete, 

Bless your kind heart! I feel terrible. Thank you for the grand time that you have given us through your pictures. I am trying to think of something to say to make this easier on you. I am unable to come up with anything.

Best Wishes Through This,

Feather


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## Victor

Pete, I read your first post shortly after you posted the terrible news. I honestly did not know what to say and am still at a total loss for words except to say my heart is full of pain for what you are going through at this very moment.


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## andinla

*Oh Pete*

I am so so sorry...Is there a park near by you can move them to? Neighbors should mind thier own dang business and let people enjoy what they enjoy. 

Let us know how things are going.. 

PS 
When a officer from my town called me on a Saturday morning to tell me someone turned me in for feeding them at the schools big open field, I told them I would move them just give me time, he said you don't understand you can not even feed them at your home....living in the city sucks sometimes! I still feed them in dark hours when all nosey ones are fast asleep that way the birds feed before the nosey ones rise for the day...

Good luck
Andi


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## Garye

Isn't it great having neighbors? I have one here who goes around the block and finds every little thing she can and reports that neighbor to the police. Needless to say, everyone here hates her. It got so bad that someone late at night tried to set fire to her house.

She stopped for a while, but she's back in full swing. Yes there are nosey neighbors mainly because they don't have enough going on in their lives to keep themselves busy. This neighbor is one of them. She has no job and does not join any clubs to meet people. She just sits at home trying to find faults with her neighbors. Maybe if she got out and mingled with people, she'd find something better to do. But it's not likely she'll ever do that.

I'm sorry to hear about your problem, Pete. I loved your pix of the birds. I will certainly miss them along with you.  

PS. I'm glad you were able to get Gracie, though, before all this happened.


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## Pete Jasinski

I know who reported me, it was one of two neighbors. One is an older man who does nothing all day but go out for breakfast early in the morning then sits in his porch waiting to pick up the leaves as they fall on his lawn one by one. 

The second is a home with parents and 2 of their kids and their families who pretty much spend all their time and money trying to turn their house into a mini castle. Both groups have nothing to do with their time so finding the smallest thing to complain about brings them their needed joy. I've been told by one of them to "just shoot them, they're winged rats"  

I basically ignored them and continued my feedings as it is legal to place one small feeder in your yard. This crappy town forbids feeding of the pigeons and will fine you $1000.00 if caught. Since my flock can be as large as 100+ at times and mill around the neighbors rooftops they throw fits that they are pooping on their precious cars, roofs & fences. 

My defense is going to be if it were illegal to feed the birds the local Walmart & supermarkets should not be selling feeders and seed as there are aiding and abetting the crime of feeding. 

For now I have to do the unthinkable and chase my beloved flock away when they come down to look for their dinner. I've been feeding them at night so the food will be waiting for them in the AM but they are stubborn and return when they see me come home for work so for now I'll have to stop my feedings until I can prove my feeder is legal and that the pigeons don't know the food is not meant for them  
This is going to take all the strength I can muster, I'm sick just thinking the winter is coming a I won't be able to help 
Sorry about the typos, I'm tired, miserable and drugged up at the moment


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## Feather

Pete,

Does that law say anything about the size of your feeder?


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## Pete Jasinski

I was told by my local govt it has to be small and not large enough to accommodate a pigeon but was not given specific dimensions. This makes no since as Walmat sells rather large feeders that will be big enough for any sized bird to use. If fined I'm going to point fault at Walmart for selling my the illegal feeder without warning me what types of birds should be using it.


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## Feather

Are you allowed to feed squirrels? My first ferrel pigeon came to eat the food I put out for my rabbits. Actually I think he may have belonged to the lady down the street, but when they moved he came back to their old house, or they left him. Rabbits also like peanuts! 

Maybe there is some way to get around this.

Feather


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## Pete Jasinski

There really isn't way around my problem as it is law that feeding the pigeons anywhere in town is punishable by a fine. I'm not sure about feeding the squirrels but I'm sure my neighbors will find fault in that too, having no life gives these people nothing to do with their time but make other people miserable.


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## Feather

I guess I was trying to say if you put food out for your rabbit, and the pigeons came to dine, it would not be intentional on your part. I have a little video of my rabbits eating out of there bowl, with a couple of pigeons and then comes a little squirrel to bless their dining experience.

Pete, 
This is just a warning right? You haven't been fined yet, is that correct?


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## Pete Jasinski

It's a notice, I have to contact them on Monday to see what's happening. As soon as I find out I'll be sure to post the results.


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## Feather17

Wow, I can't believe that an entire town can have such and ordinance!
I live in a townhouse with a HOA that fines you for anything and everything.

A few months ago I had one or two pigeons around so I started feeding them and as you can imagine in a matter of weeks there were dozens. 
I know the neighbors were not happy about this at all so we tried to feed them on the sly, but even that wouldn't work. I'd go out to walk my dog and 100 pigeons would follow us down the street. Very incriminating!

We're still feeding them - but at night, so the pigeons are eating early AM
-and I gradually moved their feeding location to a common area at the end of the street. They're still sitting on my roof during the day, but at least they don't all fly down whenever we go out.

If you can move them and feed them overnight when no one sees you, they certainly can't hold you responsible. There could even be another feeder as far as the neighbors or town know.

Goodl luck, its a shame that doing something good can get you into trouble!


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## christina11

Im so sorry.  

Thats horrible its just pigeons, they cant kill people by pooping on some houses.

I hope you can fight over this..

Throw some seeds in the grass and when the pigeons eat it shall look like there eating wild stuff I geuss lol I dunno...


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## Victor

christina11 said:


> I'm so sorry.
> 
> Thats horrible its just pigeons, they cant kill people by pooping on some houses.
> 
> I hope you can fight over this..
> 
> Throw some seeds in the grass and when the pigeons eat it shall look like there eating wild stuff I guess lol I dunno...


Unfortunately Christina,he can not defy the order he received from the city officials. Remember, he has about 100 in his feral flock.

We are all upset over this but there are those who really have a problem with bird droppings on their cars and property. 

It would be great if he could continue his practice, but I doubt it. I think the only remedy is to move the feeding to another more open area such as a park or field. We have all read about this time and time again. It is a sad situation but reality. Tomorrow the victim could be me and my coop...or YOU?


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## Skyeking

Victor said:


> Tomorrow the victim could be me and my coop...or YOU?



Exactly, I'm trying to get a back-up plan, just in case. 

It happens everywhere, and it only takes one complaint.


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## Feather

Where I live we cannot have pigeons inside closed structures. Fortunately my neighbors have not reported me. But I am very careful who I allow at my home, and who knows that I have the birds. It is sad because it is a forever pressing issue, always on my mind and altering the way I conduct my life.

Maybe we should all just pull together and buy a big chunk of land somewhere, and we all could live happy with our animals. Could you imagine all the pigeons?

When I had my raccoons, I called the humane society to come and pick up a very sick feral cat, as vets at that time would not see ferals.

When the officer arrived, I told him although my raccoons had been vaccinated that I did not want them to get sick. 

He said, Raccoons? your not suppose to have raccoons here in this area.

I told him then I would just have to move that there was no way that I could give them up. He then asked if he could see them. I had them in an enormous chain link cage on a section of the patio as high as our house They had hollowed out logs and a little dog house on a second level that they could climb in. When he saw them he said this is an awesome set-up. I showed him papers of them having up to date vaccinations and they had been spayed. He told me that most dog owners aren't even up to date on their vaccinations. He never told on me, but about 7 years later he knocked
on my door. He told me he was leaving the area. He told me to be careful, and not to let anyone from the Humane Society know I had the raccoons.

Pete, Good luck tomorrow!
Feather


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## Skyeking

Pete,

Sending good thoughts your way, and remember we will be with you in spirit tomorrow!






Feather said:


> Maybe we should all just pull together and buy a big chunk of land somewhere, and we all could live happy with our animals.
> Feather


Sounds like a good back-up plan! We all need a buffer in case of emergency, sounds like a haven, a pigeon heaven!


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## Maggie-NC

Our very own city, we could call it "Pigeonville".

Pete, We're also losers in this deal because now we won't be able to see all the wonderful pictures of your flock. I can't tell you how sorry I am this happened

Feather - do you still have the raccoons? Also, how are your little o'possums doing?


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## mr squeaks

Squeaks and I are with you too, Pete. We are hoping for the best, preparing for the worst and will deal with what comes!

BTW, Squeaks flew through a seed hole and left his trade mark morning poop on their roof as he flew over! (as a racing homing pij, those in the know realize how big these can be! He "cleans" out to fly lean and mean!) 

While this "gift" acts as a warning for feral pijies to stay away, it's also a signal beacon for the SPPs...


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## Lin Hansen

Pete,

Sorry you are going through this, I know how it feels.

In my town, you are not allowed to ground feed (scatter seed on the ground) anywhere. But, you are allowed one bird feeder "per family," so if you are in a single family home, you can have one feeder, two family home, two and so on I suppose. This is actually how I started with the pigeons a couple of years ago. They passed this ordinance in my town a few years ago. At the time, we had had one bird feeder. But, my hubby being the ornary type, he promptly put up two more, since we are a three family. The little birds would come to eat out of the feeders, but as you know, lots of seed winds up spilling over onto the ground, and that's what started attracting the pigeons.

It wouldn't be such a problem if *so many* didn't start showing up, but that's what happens. I never actually had any of the neighbors file a formal complaint, but once the number of birds coming to eat everyday was coming close to 90, the neighbors started making comments. If I kept up, I knew it was only a matter of time. So, last summer, I had to stop. It broke my heart, but it took about 3 days for them to get the idea that the kitchen was closed. You're right about the birds recognizing you. I took to using an umbrella (rain or shine) to walk from my back door to my car. Believe it or not, this worked. The birds didn't realize it was me under that umbrella.

The compromise I've reached is this (I did this last year and will do so again, this winter): Once the cold weather really sets in, I start feeding again and try to do it throughout the winter, even it it's every other day so they don't depend on me as their sole source of food. It takes a while for the number of birds showing up to become noticeable again. So, I keep my fingers crossed till Spring, when I stop feeding again. I'm hoping that food is more plentiful for them to find in the Spring and Summer, then try to give them a helping hand in the wintertime. I haven't actually had to discuss this plan with my neighbors, but I think if I had to, even they would not mind the wintertime feeding so much, as long as they knew that it was only for a limited time and would be ending once the nice weather arrived again.

Don't know if this would work for you, but it's an option to keep in mind maybe.

Linda


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## Maggie-NC

Linda, I was very touched by your post. I don't understand what people think pigeons will do to them. It's very sad.


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## Reti

Pete, I am so sorry.
I had to go through the same heartache and I know how you feel.
I will never understand why people are bothered by pigeons and doves. A poop on the roof gets washed away by the rain. As for the cars, I haven't seen any pigeons really roosting on cars.
My friend used to complain about a heron roosting all the time on her car and how it would ruin her precious car. Well, only a couple of months later her car was stolen, so she had not to worry anymore.

I think it all comes down to people not liking pigeons.

Reti


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## Feather

You know that one of the largest animal rescues in the United States started out as a group of friends that went together and bought a very large piece of land to keep the animals that they had rescued.

At the time they did not even have a vet to treat the animals. It is "Best Freinds" in Utah. If you have not heard how they got started, their story will make your hair stand on ends.

Maggie I do not have my raccoons anymore, but I was blessed with them for 11 years. One morning about 6 wks ago, early before the sun came up I thought I heard that very special little sound they make. Just the sound brought back beautiful memories. I thought what other animal makes that noise? It must have been a crow. But what are crows doing up this early? 
Being on opossum watch, when the dogs go crazy, I go out with a flash light because I know there are more baby opossums than two. There by my pond was a great big raccoon. I've seen him twice now. We have never had them here ever. Our wilderness foothills are being turned into human homes and there is no room for our wildlife. I've lived here 20 years, and was so happy when I saw a single squirrel in my yard a year ago. He disappeared! Believe me this raccoon visit is not normal. 


The opossums (Razz and Tazz) are darling with their little pink noses. They will be big enough shortly for the rescuer to take and set free.


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## mr squeaks

I support Best Friends in Utah. They do indeed have MANY animals. Their magazine is always a joy and sometimes sad to read.

I wish them continued success and will continue to support them.

So glad to hear the possums are doing well!


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## Maggie-NC

Feather, 11 years was a long time to keep your raccoons. I know you miss them. I know I don't need to tell you to be very careful around the ones you see in your yard because of rabies but mention it in case others don't know. 

Many years ago we were at the beach and around dusk, Lewis found a teeny, teeny baby opossum on the ground. We looked everywhere for the mother but couldn't find her. Apparently the baby had fallen off her back.

The little fellow was loaded with fleas - never saw so many on a dog. He would burrow in Lewis' shirt and only a little pink nose would stick out. Of course we tried everything to keep him going but he died a day the next day. 

We try to check out roadkill because often there are babies that may have survived on the mother's back. A lot of the mammal rehabbers get them in that way.


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## Feather

Oh Yes Maggie,

I can relate to the big fleas! They are clean now! On a web-site that Lin (Mary Jane) provided me, it also says to check the pouch of an Opossum that has been killed in the road, as many times her babies are able to survive. My husband says, "NO WAY! You have had me do some wierd things but I WILL NOT CHECK THE POUCH OF ROAD KILL" But I will.

Feather


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## arnieismybaby

Hi Pete,

I'm really sorry to read of your dilemma. I know only too well what you are going through, having gone through the same trauma myself a few months back with my so called office neighbours - who happen to be a firm of Solicitors.  They claimed that my feeding such a huge flock (around 20-25!) of pigeons was turning the pleasant, quite, traffic free court (their words not mine) into an environmental health hazard. 

Okay, so I've been waiting a while now for these idiots to trip up so that I could get my revenge, and today, finally, the opportunity presented itself.

For the past week, instead of placing their commercial waste into the official Corporation of London refuse collection bags, they have been putting all their rubbish into regular black sacks. The waste disposal guys will not remove any rubbish placed in black bags, something which all the offices in this little area are more than well aware off. This rubbish (some 12 bags in all) is now spilling out onto the main pedestrian walkway and it smells. Some of bags have been ripped, so I'm guessing that foxes have been at it. Of course, this type of rubbish attracts rats! Now in my opinion rats are far more problematic vis-a-vis environmental health than pigeon! So, this afternoon, rubbing my hands rather gleefully, I telephoned the Corporation of London and have now lodged a formal complaint with the Corporation of London, citing the bye-law about littering the public byway.

I guess some of you will think that I'm being childish, but I feel that I have finally been able to stand up for the rights of the pigeons!

Anyway, I wish you all the best, and hope that somehow or another you can find away around the problem you are facing, and continue to feed your feathered friends.

Michelle.


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## mr squeaks

arnieismybaby said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> I'm really sorry to read of your dilemma. I know only too well what you are going through, having gone through the same trauma myself a few months back with my so called office neighbours - who happen to be a firm of Solicitors.  They claimed that my feeding such a huge flock (around 20-25!) of pigeons was turning the pleasant, quite, traffic free court (their words not mine) into an environmental health hazard.
> 
> Okay, so I've been waiting a while now for these idiots to trip up so that I could get my revenge, and today, finally, the opportunity presented itself.
> 
> For the past week, instead of placing their commercial waste into the official Corporation of London refuse collection bags, they have been putting all their rubbish into regular black sacks. The waste disposal guys will not remove any rubbish placed in black bags, something which all the offices in this little area are more than well aware off. This rubbish (some 12 bags in all) is now spilling out onto the main pedestrian walkway and it smells. Some of bags have been ripped, so I'm guessing that foxes have been at it. Of course, this type of rubbish attracts rats! Now in my opinion rats are far more problematic vis-a-vis environmental health than pigeon! So, this afternoon, rubbing my hands rather gleefully, I telephoned the Corporation of London and have now lodged a formal complaint with the Corporation of London, citing the bye-law about littering the public byway.
> 
> *I guess some of you will think that I'm being childish, but I feel that I have finally been able to stand up for the rights of the pigeons!*Anyway, I wish you all the best, and hope that somehow or another you can find away around the problem you are facing, and continue to feed your feathered friends.
> 
> Michelle.



Hardly...I think you were wise to contact the authorities to prevent a worse hazard to your area than the pigeons could ever be! BRAVO!


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## Skyeking

Hi Michelle,

Thank you for reporting the misuse of waste management.... which is causing quite a health hazard.

....and they were worried about a few little pigeon ...gimme a break!


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## arnieismybaby

mr squeaks said:


> Hardly...I think you were wise to contact the authorities to prevent a worse hazard to your area than the pigeons could ever be! BRAVO!


 ..... 



Trees Gray said:


> Hi Michelle,
> 
> Thank you for reporting the misuse of waste management.... which is causing quite a health hazard.
> 
> ....and they were worried about a few little pigeon ...gimme a break!


Thanks for the support - I feel even happier now  My boss thinks I'm being mean ... I disagree.  

Michelle


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## Maggie-NC

Michelle, well done!

What goes around usually comes around.


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## Pete Jasinski

Revenge is sweet isn't it Michele! Well the ordeal is over for now as it was only a warning that was issued and no fine levied. GET THIS! I was just informed that is ILLEGAL TO FEED BIRDS AT ALL IN SUMMER HERE!!!! If that isn't a load of poop I don't know what is I figured out who lodged the complaint because I was told he was very belligerent and nasty. Looks like I'll be needing a second strike from the SPPs as the original target was not the complainer.


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## arnieismybaby

Pete Jasinski said:


> Revenge is sweet isn't it Michele! Well the ordeal is over for now as it was only a warning that was issued and no fine levied. GET THIS! I was just informed that is ILLEGAL TO FEED BIRDS AT ALL IN SUMMER HERE!!!! If that isn't a load of poop I don't know what is I figured out who lodged the complaint because I was told he was very belligerent and nasty. Looks like I'll be needing a second strike from the SPPs as the original target was not the complainer.


Revenge is definitely sweet! I still, sneakily, feed my little guys, and I think they have finally got the message that they will find food in the mornings, when nobody else is around, and not in the evenings. So the pigeons are making less of an appearance. I only hope that you can sit back and bide your time and hope that the nonentity that reported you likewise does something stupid enough for you to lodge a formal complaint. As for it being illegal to feed birds in the summer - what a load of tosh! 

Michelle.


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## mr squeaks

arnieismybaby said:


> .....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the support - I feel even happier now  *My boss thinks I'm being mean ... I disagree.  *
> Michelle


Be willing to bet that your boss is NOT a pigeon person either!


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## Skyeking

Pete Jasinski said:


> Revenge is sweet isn't it Michele! Well the ordeal is over for now as it was only a warning that was issued and no fine levied. GET THIS! I was just informed that is *ILLEGAL TO FEED BIRDS AT ALL IN SUMMER HERE!!!! * If that isn't a load of poop I don't know what is I figured out who lodged the complaint because I was told he was very belligerent and nasty. Looks like I'll be needing a second strike from the SPPs as the original target was not the complainer.



Hi Pete,

Does that mean it is okay to feed the birds during fall, winter and spring?

It has been fall for 3 days now.


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## Pete Jasinski

Trees Gray said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> Does that mean it is okay to feed the birds during fall, winter and spring?
> 
> It has been fall for 3 days now.


It is legal to feed all the birds Treesa......EXCEPT the pigeons  I've been told in a "nice" way to cease and desist all feeding because the pigeons come to my feeder and I WILL be fined for the next offense. 
I'm happy Gracie is going to be with you in a pigeon friendly environment far away from all my local jerks!
I'll be calling you in the AM with Gracie's travel arraignments


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## mr squeaks

Uh, I don't get it. IF you can LEGALLY feed all birds EXCEPT pigeons, HOW do you keep pigeons away????????????????

Like Forrest said, "stupid is as stupid does" or something like that...

BTW, Squeaks already "marked" the complainer's abode as I mentioned above. The SPPs will have a "shining" target!


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## Pete Jasinski

mr squeaks said:


> Uh, I don't get it. IF you can LEGALLY feed all birds EXCEPT pigeons, *HOW do you keep pigeons away????????????????*
> 
> Like Forrest said, "stupid is as stupid does" or something like that...
> 
> BTW, Squeaks already "marked" the complainer's abode as I mentioned above. The SPPs will have a "shining" target!


My question exactly! I was told you have to get a feeder that will not allow ANY seed to fall to the ground so the pigeons can get it and if they are present the feeder must be removed. 
So any way you look at it they demand that the pigeons not be fed at all.
Thanks Squeaks! I'm adding an aerial reconnaissance photo....X marks the spot!


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## Feather

Pete, 

I feel worse for you than I do the pigeons. They will manage I am sure. But do be careful. The self appointed deputy of your neighborhood is probably watching you close. All of my best wishes to you.

Feather


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## mr squeaks

How far away does this person live from you, Pete? Have you had problems with him before? Does he have any animals? How long has he lived in the neighborhood? Does he get along with other neighbors? Does he have kids?

Have you tried talking to him?


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## Feather

Ha Ha Ha Ha! Dang! You are a nosey member! 

Does anyone have a flying cow?


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## pdpbison

Hi Pete, 


I am so sorry you had to deal with this...how insane of them.

So, even if are trying to feed Squirells, or Sparrows, or just seed-your-lawn, they can claim, I suppose, that since Pigeons are observed to opportune, YOU get 'fined'?

Any friends or relatives who are able Lawyers?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## alvin

Pete Jasinski said:


> Looks like I'll be needing a second strike from the SPPs as the original target was not the complainer.


Gertrude is doing this one solo. He tends to take things like this very personaly. I saw him this morning sizing up a shovel, and reading a book called 'How to impersonate gophers'.

I take it this guy likes his lawn?

Or rather, the lunar like surface where it used to be?


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## andinla

*Maybe we should all*

start working on this project in our towns check it out http://www.wingsoverus.org/pigeonplan.htm
it's awesome.

Andi

PS Feather I have 65 open acres with a creek running through it in Cove, Ark. (near Mena)

I hope one day to open a rescue ranch your all welcome when I do....


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## piney_creek

*Hey Pete..........*

Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!

Just a thought!

PINEY


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## Skyeking

Pete Jasinski said:


> It is legal to feed all the birds Treesa......EXCEPT the pigeons  I've been told in a "nice" way to cease and desist all feeding because the pigeons come to my feeder and I WILL be fined for the next offense.
> I'm happy Gracie is going to be with you in a pigeon friendly environment far away from all my local jerks!
> I'll be calling you in the AM with Gracie's travel arraignments



I cannot, as hard as I try, understand or compehend that kind of mentality!  

i will be looking forward to your call.

Thank you.


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## Feather

Andi,

That is a awesome web-site. I thing a plan like that could work. I love your rescue idea and may take you up on it. You are going to have to tell me about this. This is just really interesting.

Shi, You asked all the questions I wanted to know.

Feather


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## mr squeaks

piney_creek said:


> Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> PINEY


Now I think THAT is a peachykeen idea!, Piney! The SPPs couldn't have thought of something better (although I DO like the lunarscape scenario, Alvin!!) 

Actually, the SPPs could help too...Squeaks would be HAPPY (YES, you WOULD, Squeakers!) to donate some of his Hemp and Safflower seeds. (Pardon, folks, sometimes, Squeaks is a little "touchy" in the mornings!)


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## maryjane

Just seeing this post now.....Pete, that just sucks! It's so easy to make the frustration level rise to the red zone, just tell us we can't feed the birds!  What a shame it is.  Michelle, all I can say is AHA! Great job on the retaliation method. Very nice.  Feather, I'm glad the little 'possums are doing so well. You are an animal wonder. I check opossums on the side of the road for babies when they haven't been laying there for obviously too long. Just keep a box of those disposable rubber gloves in the trunk, they come in handy.


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## Pete Jasinski

mr squeaks said:


> 1)How far away does this person live from you, Pete?
> 2)Have you had problems with him before?
> 3)Does he have any animals?
> 4)How long has he lived in the neighborhood?
> 5)Does he get along with other neighbors?
> 6)Does he have kids?
> 
> Have you tried talking to him?


Ok, here we go in order or your questioning...
1)He lives across the street from me and one house over
2)This has been going on for about a year so far.
3)Nope
4)He's been here longer then me, he's in his 80's with nothing to but look for things to take mind off his boring meaningless existence...sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm still very upset.
5)He gets along with the other pigeon hating group two doors over to the right of me.
7)He HAD a son who died of cancer in his mid 30's 
I have answered your questions inquisitor Shi you can remove the light now


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## Pete Jasinski

pdpbison said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> 
> I am so sorry you had to deal with this...how insane of them.
> 
> So, even if are trying to feed Squirells, or Sparrows, or just seed-your-lawn, they can claim, I suppose, that since Pigeons are observed to opportune, YOU get 'fined'?
> 
> *Any friends or relatives who are able Lawyers?*
> 
> 
> Phil
> Las Vegas


Unfortunately not Phil, I've been left hanging out to dry by the local govt.
Things happen, people pass and the tide of battle changes many times before the war is decided. I might have lost this battle but not the war as far as I'm concerned


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## mr squeaks

Sorry, Pete, didn't mean my questions in "that" light.  

Sometimes it helps to know "thy enemy." 

Sounds to me like the man has no life and could be very lonely. Having a son die like that must have been devastating!

Too bad there might not be some way to change his and the other pigeon hating neighbors' minds... 

What a shame...

Cutting down on the amount of food might help...over some time. Cindy had to do this with the large number of pigeons she was attracting...


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## Pete Jasinski

mr squeaks said:


> *Sorry, Pete, didn't mean my questions in "that" light. *
> 
> Sometimes it helps to know "thy enemy."
> 
> Sounds to me like the man has no life and could be very lonely. Having a son die like that must have been devastating!
> 
> Too bad there might not be some way to change his and the other pigeon hating neighbors' minds...
> 
> What a shame...
> 
> Cutting down on the amount of food might help...over some time. Cindy had to do this with the large number of pigeons she was attracting...


No need to apologize, it was all in jest The funny thing is I knew my enemy all my life and only recently has this "evil" side surfaced.
I've tried talking to him but his mind is made up plus his wife is like the little weasel who hides behind the bully egging him on while taunting from behind...yeah, you tell him!


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## Garye

Hmmmmmm....interesting. My neighbor who likes to report everyone in the neighborhood lost a daughter - to a car accident. This girl was supposed to become a doctor - they had high hopes for this one but she had gotten drunk one night and drove and lost control of the car, killing herself. The woman never got over it. She also is up there in age.

I think, Pete, your neighbor is a lot like mine. That's what fuels them. They're lonely, possibly blaming themselves and everyone else for their loss, and they're taking it out on everyone else because they're still angry and sad over the loss. They don't know how to deal with it.

Probably the best way for them to deal with it, is to go around to schools or whatever and talk to kids or people about their loss and share their loss with others who have gone through the same things. But they won't. So they never really try to heal from it.

Now I know where your neighbor is coming from and unfortunately for you, unless he learns to try and reach out, he's going to forever be a thorn to the neighbors - just like mine is. 

We share the same headache.


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## Pete Jasinski

Garye said:


> Hmmmmmm....interesting. My neighbor who likes to report everyone in the neighborhood lost a daughter - to a car accident. This girl was supposed to become a doctor - they had high hopes for this one but she had gotten drunk one night and drove and lost control of the car, killing herself. The woman never got over it. She also is up there in age.
> 
> I think, Pete, your neighbor is a lot like mine. That's what fuels them. They're lonely, possibly blaming themselves and everyone else for their loss, and they're taking it out on everyone else because they're still angry and sad over the loss. They don't know how to deal with it.
> 
> Probably the best way for them to deal with it, is to go around to schools or whatever and talk to kids or people about their loss and share their loss with others who have gone through the same things. But they won't. So they never really try to heal from it.
> 
> Now I know where your neighbor is coming from and unfortunately for you, unless he learns to try and reach out, he's going to forever be a thorn to the neighbors - just like mine is.
> 
> We share the same headache.


I can't say I take comfort knowing I'm not the ony one suffering from a nasty neighbor but at least I know I'm not fighting the battle alone.
I think every neighborhood has at least one crotchety nasty neighbor, I myself am getting ready for the roll.......HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN


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## Rockie

Wow Pete, I am so sorry. I had no idea this happened to you. I too know what you're going through. It seems like there is truly noone safe from this type of experience. Big brother is always watching. I know you've done all you could to keep things as inconspicuous as possible. To have to live looking over your shoulder all the time, in your own home, is a living nightmare and so unfair.

Last time this came to a boil, weren't you able to feed some of your flock at a nearby park or something? I hope you can do this. (Oh, but then that is illegal too. This is just crazy!) I understand your heartache when you leave your house w/the pijies watching you, with that "where is my food" look. My stomach gets so sick when I leave my office and the pijies fly after me...I still don't have a complete resolution there...I may try the umbrella thing someone mentioned earlier.

I've recently discovered a few scarey details about the town I live in as well...I need to tread VERY carefully. I have been literally hiding in my own house as well. 

I wish I had something positive to say to you. Some of the other members really put a smile on my face w/retaliation plans...whatever, whenever, you can count me in.

Pete, you know you're not alone. We're all here for you.


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## Pete Jasinski

Rockie said:


> Wow Pete, I am so sorry. I had no idea this happened to you. I too know what you're going through. It seems like there is truly no one safe from this type of experience. Big brother is always watching. I know you've done all you could to keep things as inconspicuous as possible. To have to live looking over your shoulder all the time, in your own home, is a living nightmare and so unfair.
> 
> Last time this came to a boil, weren't you able to feed some of your flock at a nearby park or something? I hope you can do this. (Oh, but then that is illegal too. This is just crazy!) I understand your heartache when you leave your house w/the pijies watching you, with that "where is my food" look. My stomach gets so sick when I leave my office and the pijies fly after me...I still don't have a complete resolution there...I may try the umbrella thing someone mentioned earlier.
> 
> I've recently discovered a few scarey details about the town I live in as well...I need to tread VERY carefully. I have been literally hiding in my own house as well.
> 
> I wish I had something positive to say to you. Some of the other members really put a smile on my face w/retaliation plans...whatever, whenever, you can count me in.
> 
> Pete, you know you're not alone. We're all here for you.


Hi Leslie,
This all blew over a day or so after we spoke last, I'll try and give you a ring soon and give you all the yucky details. It is sad being a prisoner in you own home, I've taken to the extreme of carrying a weapon while on my property at times when the numbers are overwhelmingly against me. Not that I'll do anything but there a few "people" that could carry things a tad too far. 
Us pigeon folk have to band together and fight the tyranny of the anti pidgie machine


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## roxtar

No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck. ~Frederick Douglass


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## Feather

One thing is for sure, your neighbor has never had the opportunity to meet a pigeon up close and personal. It is sad to think that he may leave this world without ever having that experience. It was right under his nose and he missed it.

Pete, You could never be like him. Your spirit is too gentle. As much as you want to be like him when you grow up, it isn't going to happen. Pick another career.

Feather


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## Pete Jasinski

Obviously my neighbor doesn't under that Roxtar, or, he just doesn't care. He has shackled myself and hundreds of innocent wings denying us of our RIGHT to *Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of our Happiness*.

There were times I wanted to bring Dudley over to him and show him, here, here, is what you despise so much! This innocent FREE creature has more right here then you, he was born free to fly and live where he wishes, his ancestors were here hundreds of years before your precious house and car were even a thought. HOW DARE YOU deny them their right to existence because YOU find it inconvenient to clean poop off your precious possessions  Rant over...phewwwww


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## Flying_Pidgy

some people are so stupid. They have no life if they sit around and complain. I dont even know what to say.


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## Victor

Flying_Pidgy said:


> . I dont even know what to say.


Don't feel bad. I read the first post Pete posted and did not know what to say either...not til the next day.

I don't know about "stupid' though FP...maybe uninformed?


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## Flying_Pidgy

maybe so but in anycase, they dont understand.


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## Larry_Cologne

Pete,

I am in the same situation 
(read my response to "Happy Birthday Larry." I saw the birthday greetings a month late, in part because I was on vacation in San Antonio, Texas. While I was there my landlord, also my former employer, and a friend since we met in 1974 in San Antonio, had me arrange the eviction of my pigeon(s) from our apartment in Cologne, _in absentia_).

You have at least one weapon left which you haven't tried: shock and surprise. Invite your neighbor and his wife over for coffee and cake on a Sunday afternoon, with goodwill in your heart. What can you lose? (Perhaps plenty. Don't know. Just a suggestion). It may slowly ease the situation. You may find out what really bothers them. If you don't wind up with a flock of a hundred pigeons, at least you may find friendlier neighbors. I believe everything has a reason for happening, if we only find the reason (without a lot of esoterical mumbo-jumbo intervention and interpretation from other opportunistic third parties). 

Let's say they accept. You make small talk. You enjoyed feeding pigeons, the pigeons enjoyed the food so much they told all their friends, being intelligent birds, and before you knew it you were running a community center. You enjoyed it, and miss the company, and decided to get to know some neighbors better, and share your views, whether pro or con. Maybe talk about the pigeon projects mentioned in other responses to your post. Maybe they say the pigeons made so much noise. You hold up your earmuffs, noise-cancelling headphones (best for lower frequencies), and swimmers' silcone in-ear earplugs rated 23-25, and agree heartily with them. (I'm being a bit facetious here). Show them your sound-proofed bedroom with thick cones of absorbent material on the walls (you can fire a pistol in there and not hear a thing). They talk about the bird poops, and you show them your knee-high waders, shovels and full-face respirator/filter, and of course the back-hoe in the back yard, and the covered dumpster for accumulated poops (not visible in the satellite photo of your house, but there nonetheless). Probably you don't own or use any of these things, and they may notice it. (I use ear-plugs). 

Sometimes lonely (and therefore possibly angry) people need an invitation from others so that they can reach out again in a positive way. It may take some effort. It could be that they haven't found a way on their own yet, and you are a catalyst. Don't have an objective in mind, such as convincing them of your views about pigeons. Just let things flow, and nice things may happen. 

Often someone comes in my life to help me, and may knock repeatedly and often, before I notice and open up. I am grateful that they are so persistent. At 59 years of age, I still have a lot to learn, and hope the knocks on the door keep coming (even from unexpected directions). 

I see this happen frequently with my wife. She meets someone, perhaps they complain about something, and she LISTENS. But, she always sees the good in them, makes them aware of it by being positive about whatever they are negative about. This happens often on streetcars, or when she has to stand in a long line at the check-out counter. She often gets several strangers to participate in an enjoyable, brief discussion.

Chances come, and chances go. Sometimes you feel like taking hold of one, sometimes you don't. If you use your ability to reason and you use your emotions, great. If you don't use your ability to reason properly, and you let your emotions control you, you lose opportunities given you. 

Me, with my landlord, I'm biding my time. My pigeon *Wieteke* had to do his nesting outside, eventually. Just now, I took the opportunity to discretely hand-feed him for the third time this morning (at 7:00, 10:30, and noon) when he came to the window flower-box. He still wants to come in to his old nesting site and home. It is hard on both of us. 

Larry


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## Feather

You are so funny and so right. You need your own news paper column or Talk Show. Dr. Larry!



Feather


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## mr squeaks

GREAT POST, Larry! Feather is correct, you could use your own radio/tv program!  

I do not believe in accidents and feel all happens for a reason. Pete has the choice to use this event in a positive or negative way. While we kid around with "relaliation(s)" like the SPPs, this is a stress relief for us and hopefully, Pete.

However, dealing with people themselves is a whole new ball game and needs compassion, intuition and nerve. Most people will respond to POSITIVE. Negative usually only results in more negativity, sometimes with disasterous results. What people fear, they will try and destroy. Sometimes, compromise will accomplish wonders. The KEY word is SINCERITY. 

If one only pays "lip" service while thinking, "I hate you!" these vibes will be felt and you're back where you started - sometimes worse. 

Reaching out may be just the key you need, Pete, to help these people better understand. Could even result, someday, in changing the "law" about "outlawing" pigeons.

By changing our BELIEFS, we have the POWER to change ourselves and influence others...


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## Rockie

Very well put Larry. I'm so sorry for what you're going thru as well. I'm glad you're able to sneak some tidbits to Wieteke. It makes me feel so sad that the pijies don't know why things have changed. 

In my head I know you're right in your way of thinking, it's just hard to get passed the heart filled with sadness over what this person(s) has done to the innocent pijies. 

In my family, I am known as the "animal person". They all think I'm crazy, obsessive, etc. And for some reason, people think you don't care about "people" if you love animals - very untrue. When my mom learned I was actually keeping pigeons in my house I never heard the end of it. Well recently, during a visit from her, I insisted she come peak in one of the pigeon rooms. I put down a few twigs and Tippy immediately ran over to it, picked it up, ran over to his mate Billie (was Bill O'Reilly before I realized he was a she) and let her arrange it to her liking. Well, this was the first time ever that I think my mom saw them, truly saw them. How can you resist such sweetness and innocence? It's a start anyway.


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## mountainstorm

*that* is an AWESOME idea! LOL 



piney_creek said:


> Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> PINEY


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## arnieismybaby

piney_creek said:


> Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> PINEY


*LOL*  that is so naughty ... so darn clever ... and the sort of evil thing that I would do  

Michelle


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## piney_creek

piney_creek said:


> Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> PINEY




Before I lost my *AMERICAN* right to feed the birds......... I sure would give it a try!


_PINEY_


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## Larry_Cologne

piney_creek said:


> Here's the plan..............sneak over to their house at night, throw some seed in the yard............and when the pigeons start eating it the next morning....... *F L A S H !!* ..................take a picture of the pigeons in their yard being fed!
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
> PINEY


This is a clever idea, and fun to contemplate doing. 

BUT, think about it some more: We would be using the pigeons as a football. They would get kicked around. A photo of them feeding on the neighbors' lawn wouldn't really hurt the neighbors. Someone would see through the ruse, and the pigeons would seem more of a threat than ever. The neighbors would simply deny having anything to do with the pigeons, and being that they were the ones to file the complaint, they would be credibe. It would serve to emphasize the neighbors' point: these pigeons are hard to get rid of, and a threat which needs to addressed by drastic means. We don't want to do somehing that backfires, that is to the detriment of the pigeons.

If the pigeons could themselves take direct action against their tormentors, that would be kind of neat, though.


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## Pete Jasinski

I wouldn't want to give the poor pigeons false hope of being fed again only to have them return the next day to nothing again. As Larry said the neighbors will see through the prank and make things harder on the birds and myself, I still have Dudley, Glinda & Moe I have to worry about losing. 

I've tried the civil route as you have mentioned Larry but it's to no avail he doesn't want to hear anything that is against his way of thinking, it's his way or no way at all. I've stood in the street (neutral ground) and pleaded my case only to be told that the birds don't need my help finding food, just look at the pigeons in the big cities he'd say, there's no one out there throwing seed down for them every day. I'd answer him SURE THERE ARE! people throw bread and seed in the parks all the time to which he'd grumble then leave, negotiations have broken down again. 

I'm just going to bide my time and wait till the time comes again that I can bring the joy back into my yard again and delightful sound of coo's will fill the air again


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## Skyeking

Hi Pete,

The situation does seem hopeless. 

Perhaps some divine intervention is needed, I will pray.


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## Feather

Hi Pete,

It really does look as though there is nothing that you can do until some laws change. Judging by the way that most people feel about pigeons, I don't believe that will happen anytime soon. The web-site that Andi posted about setting up dove coves is such a good idea. Every city, if bothered by pigeons, should set them up. The laws in N.J. are a real eye opener. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they don't have the same laws here in CA, and many other states. You know another sad thing is when certain grasses and weeds dry in vacant fields and those plants turn to seed. I'm sure that many little birds use to gobble them up. There are hardly and fields in my city anymore. Everything has been sacrificed in the name of progress.


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## motobird

that is not right.
i go downtown every weekend loaded up with pird seed and sit in the middle of your square and feed the pijjs and have never had a problem. the cops think its cool.
i think that your freedoms are being squashed.


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## Pete Jasinski

It's a shame the pigeons have to suffer because of the general publics lack of knowledge of them. They seem to only go by the age old stereotypes such as rats with wings  I hate even typing that because it's so untrue. I'll have to just grin and bear it...for now.

While shopping for pigeon hater deterrents I came across this handy dandy lil' item. They guarantee it will keep even the most hardcore pigeon hater at bay while your flock feeds  No, I am not condoning violence even toward those that bare you ill will!


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## mr squeaks

So THAT'S where the expression, "Bring Out the BIG GUNS!" came from!

Deadly by any other name... 

Probably just as well that the SPPs are a little more - ah - "subtle!"


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## Feather

Hold your fire! Gertrude is on his way over there to do a number on the lawn.

Maybe he is going to make a giant seed hole. Load her up and wait for the signal.

Feather

P.S. Did you buy that on E-Bay?


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## Victor

So very intimidating, but the shells are really loaded with pigeon seed...aren't they?


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## Feather

I think that Pete and G.F. should take them for a long walk in their wheelchairs.  

Oh yes Victor, to feed our heros when they get there.

Feather


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## alvin

Pete Jasinski said:


> It's a shame the pigeons have to suffer because of the general publics lack of knowledge of them. They seem to only go by the age old stereotypes such as rats with wings  I hate even typing that because it's so untrue. I'll have to just grin and bear it...for now.
> 
> While shopping for pigeon hater deterrents I came across this handy dandy lil' item. They guarantee it will keep even the most hardcore pigeon hater at bay while your flock feeds  No, I am not condoning violence even toward those that bare you ill will!


Now _that's_ what I'm talking about.

Just don't let Gertrude know about it...........


----------

