# Ivomec dilution?



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I have the 1% injectable Ivomec which I'm going to use (on the birds, not myself) this weekend. 

I know you are supposed to dose in tiny volumes (drops) and this makes me nervous, because I've had too many of those little syringes "stick" and then splurt if you know what I mean.

What I am wondering is, has anyone every diluted the solution down to make measuring and administering the dose a little easier and safer? Thanks...!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*These Instructions From Foy's*

Ivomec Wormer 

Used to treat worms and parasites. It is not advisable to give to birds that are very ill. The drench is meant to be used in the drinking water at the rate of 8 cc/ml to a gallon for one day and then repeat in 10-12 days. The 0.5% is used for individual birds, 3 or 4 drops down the mouth, then repeat in 10-12 days. The 1% may be used down the mouth at the rate of 2-3 drops, then repeat in 10-12 days. The 1% is also used by many to rid the birds of external blood sucking parasites by rubbing a few drops on the foot.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Well that's the normal instructions, but, it doesn't say anything about diluting. 

I don't know *why* it would be a bad idea, but I'd like to know if anyone actually knows for sure it's OK to do, first. I don't like to experiment on my birdies


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It should be just fine. The vet dilutes the 10%.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Snipes....I'm not completely positive but I think the 1% injectible ivermec is NOT water soluble...therefore you could not dilute it if I am right. My senior brain can't come up with the positive proof, but please investigate further before you try to dilute it.

PS....Your PM box is full.....you need to clear some out.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*The injectable isn't water soluble*

Or at least mine wasn't. I would not know what to dilute it with. Someone will probably come up with it. Maybe rubbing alcohol but I wouldn't try it without hearing that this was the thing to do.

Bill


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Snipes, I don't think you can dilute it either. 

Maybe you could try a regular medicine dropper rather than a syringe. I know what you mean about sometimes shooting more in than you want to if you use a syringe. I think with a dropper you have a bit more control. I think Renee just drops the stuff in but I don't know what she uses.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I used to use a toothpick*

But I was putting it on their leg, not having them swallow it. Might still work though and it's fairly easy to get one drop at a time. Still have to get it to the toothpick somehow.

Bill


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

OK, well, I hadn't read the label to see about the solvent, but that thought had dimly crossed my mind. I also wondered about using a dropper rather than a syringe...I will probalby try it that way. Thanks, all...


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> OK, well, I hadn't read the label to see about the solvent, but that thought had dimly crossed my mind. I also wondered about using a dropper rather than a syringe...I will probalby try it that way. Thanks, all...


When I did my birds last fall I used a "tuberculin" syringe (ideal would be an insulin syringe, but the needle does not come off those). Tuberculin syringe is smaller, holds 1 ml total (instead of 3) so it is easier to draw up the correct amount. To be safe I only draw up exactly what I need for each bird.
The Ivermectin that I use is Eqvalan liquid for horses. I got that one because you can use it straight for individual dosing and its water soluable.


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Ivermectin is not water soluable. To dilute you need to dilute with propylene glycol. I believe I got mine from Global Supplies. (not positive)

I used the diluted ivermectin to worm my dogs.

Here is the link: http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=glycol&action=search


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## tms1950 (Aug 23, 2005)

I know for songbirds it is diluted at a 1-10 ratio.Dosage is according to weight and it can be given orally or dropped on several areas of the skin.My avian vet and the wildlife classes I`ve attended all teach this. Teresa


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

bigislerollers said:


> Ivermectin is not water soluable. To dilute you need to dilute with propylene glycol. I believe I got mine from Global Supplies. (not positive)
> 
> I used the diluted ivermectin to worm my dogs.
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=glycol&action=search


There are different formulars of ivermectin. Cattle formular is not water soluable. Horse formular is meant to be a drench and states that it is water soluable. I'm not sure about injectable, (propylene glycol rings a bell) but I'll check at work today.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

bigislerollers said:


> Ivermectin is not water soluable. To dilute you need to dilute with propylene glycol. I believe I got mine from Global Supplies. (not positive)
> 
> I used the diluted ivermectin to worm my dogs.
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=glycol&action=search


That is interesting. Now that would mean that you increase the dosage x4, as it's a 4:1 dilution. That makes it a bit easier to dispense. I am waiting to talk to someone at Global to see if they have any further info on it. Thanks.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

I think many people do dilute the 1% Ivomec to make it easier to measure. When I wormed my last patient, I did not dilute, and the dose came out to be .05 cc, which was very hard to measure out in a TB syringe. In an insulin syringe, it came out to 2 tiny drops.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> When I did my birds last fall I used a "tuberculin" syringe (ideal would be an insulin syringe, but the needle does not come off those). Tuberculin syringe is smaller, holds 1 ml total (instead of 3) so it is easier to draw up the correct amount. To be safe I only draw up exactly what I need for each bird.
> The Ivermectin that I use is Eqvalan liquid for horses. I got that one because you can use it straight for individual dosing and its water soluable.


The Eqvalan must call for a larger dose; when the dose is 1-2 drops, it's hard to "draw up" just the right amount!  I'm going to try and do the first batch of birds tonight so will do just the single drop on them.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Okay, I didn't read thru the other threads but if you want my 2 cents, here goes.

I use ivermectin 1% on my birds and I use it un diluted with no effect on health. i inject about a small drop into the back of the pigeons neck. I use a insulin injection so the drops are small.

I am a bit confused if i should use a new needle for each bird coz i am scared diseases such as pox may pass thru.

i could not find any mixing agent so forced to use raw. I use the same on dogs too, but I have been warned by vets that it is bad for the liver in puppies. I do lots of charity work with animals and that includes treating animals on the roads, mostly puppies. I have no side effect with 100% success rate with treatment against mange and other parasites such as ticks and fleas.

I heard that ivermectin is now available in tablet form used to treat filaria. Check it out, you should be able to get a weaker dose plus be able to control the dosage.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Use a dropper instead of a syringe. My bottle of Ivermec actually came with a dropper. I've never used a syringe with this stuff. I've never diluted it. Just fill the dropper, drop 2 or 3 drops in their mouth. If I'm worming an adult bird I give 3 drops. If I'm worming a young bird, (less than 6 months) I give 2 drops. If I'm worming a different breed than a homer, like Scooter, I give 2 drops.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Use a dropper instead of a syringe. My bottle of Ivermec actually came with a dropper. I've never used a syringe with this stuff. I've never diluted it. Just fill the dropper, drop 2 or 3 drops in their mouth. If I'm worming an adult bird I give 3 drops. If I'm worming a young bird, (less than 6 months) I give 2 drops. If I'm worming a different breed than a homer, like Scooter, I give 2 drops.


Thanks Renee. That helps a lot. It's good to know it's safe on < 6 mos too. You are using the same 1% cattle solution? I did talk to Burt at Global, he was very nice and told me you can also do the Ivomec via a couple drops on the back of the neck. ??? Anyway I'm going for the internal route...since my birds aren't all racers and vary in size from less than 300g to just under 500, I'll give 1 drop to the littlest guys and 2-3 to the bigger birds. BTW He also told me to go get an eyedropper


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> Thanks Renee. That helps a lot. It's good to know it's safe on < 6 mos too. *You are using the same 1% cattle solution?* I did talk to Burt at Global, he was very nice and told me you can also do the Ivomec via a couple drops on the back of the neck. ??? Anyway I'm going for the internal route...since my birds aren't all racers and vary in size from less than 300g to just under 500, I'll give 1 drop to the littlest guys and 2-3 to the bigger birds. BTW He also told me to go get an eyedropper


Yep..........


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*isn't that rubbing alcohol?*



bigislerollers said:


> Ivermectin is not water soluable. To dilute you need to dilute with propylene glycol. I believe I got mine from Global Supplies. (not positive)
> 
> I used the diluted ivermectin to worm my dogs.
> 
> Here is the link: http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=glycol&action=search


Just wondering.

Bill


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

*isn't that rubbing alcohol? *

No, it's not. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*mine is isopropyl glycol*



bigislerollers said:


> *isn't that rubbing alcohol? *
> 
> No, it's not. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol.


What is the difference? I'm not saying there isn't, I just don't know the difference. I do know that from one brand to another and with generics, they do change names and will sort of resemble each other and sometimes not. Normally the generic will bear the true name.

Bill


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Here is Wikipedia's description of propylene glycol. I believe this is the stuff our vet uses when mixing medicine, like metronidazole.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> What is the difference? I'm not saying there isn't, I just don't know the difference. I do know that from one brand to another and with generics, they do change names and will sort of resemble each other and sometimes not. Normally the generic will bear the true name.
> 
> Bill


The difference is they are two entirely different chemicals. They are both classified as alcohols, but their chemical formulas / structures are completely different giving them different properties. It has nothing to do with brand names or generics.
Here's some links if you want to read about chemistry 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks, I already read em*



TheSnipes said:


> The difference is they are two entirely different chemicals. They are both classified as alcohols, but their chemical formulas / structures are completely different giving them different properties. It has nothing to do with brand names or generics.
> Here's some links if you want to read about chemistry
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol


Doesn't mean I understand them. As long as people figure this out before giving it to an animal, it's OK with me. I just thought this stuff sounded a lot like rubbing alcohol and it's something we might have around the house. 

Bill


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jbangelfish said:


> Doesn't mean I understand them. As long as people figure this out before giving it to an animal, it's OK with me. I just thought this stuff sounded a lot like rubbing alcohol and it's something we might have around the house.
> 
> Bill


I sure didn't know the difference and I wondered who would give alcohol (the kind I have in the bathroom) to any animal. Live and learn..............


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I thought the same thing*



Lovebirds said:


> I sure didn't know the difference and I wondered who would give alcohol (the kind I have in the bathroom) to any animal. Live and learn..............


And I would not give it orally but if it cut the product for an external application, I thought it might work. I would not do it if I didn't hear from someone I trusted that it would be OK.

Bill


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> And I would not give it orally but if it cut the product for an external application, I thought it might work. I would not do it if I didn't hear from someone I trusted that it would be OK.
> 
> Bill


The Ivomec product, that we are discussing, which is given internally, already contains propylene glycol, about 40% by volume. It is safe to ingest, especially at the tiny quantities we are talking about.


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