# White water in droppings



## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi,
The pigeon is a hen has started to make abnormal white watery droppings. The pigeon loved to eat small grains like milo,millet but now only eating few big grains like corn,black chicken peas from grainmix. When I give her feed she come running like she is very hungry but eat few big grains and eat some soil from grit. She drink more and lost weight. Please see the droppings and help me.http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=2596


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Look around the place she stays, maybe you find some vomited grains because it seems no food get into her gizzard. That must be a sour crop - crop blockage gizzard blockage or both. Search the forum or Google for "sour crop", "blocked crop" and "blocked gizzard" and will find advices. Sour crop may be caused by candida, or crop canker, or both. 


I've read that when a bird has a blocked gizzard, eats grit, little objects etc in order to de-block it and that worsens the situation so you should isolate her that she will not have access at any solid little objects. I had a pigeon with such symptoms who died because continued to eat big grains, grit etc.


You need to feed her only with honey from a syringe (that you will push down to her throat, beyond the respiratory vent, or extended with a greased tube down her throat or even down her crop). also give her 3-4 drops (no more) of expensive oil (the ones you find at organic food stores) that might help the blockage go away.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I was also thinking of sour crop. Please check if her crop is emptying properly, or is the food staying in the crop, unable to go down further.
Is there any rotten smell from her mouth?
I suggest to let her go without food for a day or two, and add a few drops of ACV into her drinking water. I don't know what the expensive oil is...haven't heard of it, but I assume the honey would be great, since it is a natural antibiotic. Be careful when you give the honey, I use a dropper instead of the syringe because I have more control over it and less chances of aspiration which could kill the bird. You need to insert the dropper way back into the throat as suggested, beyond the air hole, and release it there.
I also suggest you give metronidazole, for canker.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

...Mani... said:


> Hi,
> The pigeon is a hen has started to make abnormal white watery droppings. The pigeon loved to eat small grains like milo,millet but now only eating few big grains like corn,black chicken peas from grainmix. When I give her feed she come running like she is very hungry but eat few big grains and eat some soil from grit. She drink more and lost weight. Please see the droppings and help me.http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?albumid=2596


Hi Manisha,
When I hear of white watery droppings then three things come to my mind. Paratyphoid, hexamitiasis or worm infestation. These three things may cause white diarrhea. Unless you can get a diagnosis,nothing can be said for sure.
In my experience,
When pigeons are affected by paratyphoid,they usually show less activity? How active your hen is?

Hexamita are a protozoa that cause white diarrhea in pigeons. But they are usually active in summers and bother young pigeons. But they can attack pigeon of any age at any time of the year. Do you ever see any blood in hen's poop??? Drinking more water hints hexamita. Same med that is used for canker treatment e.g, metronidazole can be used to treat hexamita protozoan.

Serious worm infestation can also cause white water in droppings. But usually in that case pigeon seems to eat more and more. At last stages pigeons actually eat very less as worms block the intestines. When did you deworm your hen with what deworming med?

My guess is hexamitiasis or bacterial infection.

If she is passing droppings I don't suspect sour crop. Does her crop looks like hanging pouch?
Please don't give her any sugary/sweet substance to eat. On already stressed body, donot let candida to take over.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

AndreiS said:


> Look around the place she stays, maybe you find some vomited grains because it seems no food get into her gizzard. That must be a sour crop - crop blockage gizzard blockage or both. Search the forum or Google for "sour crop", "blocked crop" and "blocked gizzard" and will find advices. Sour crop may be caused by candida, or crop canker, or both.
> 
> 
> I've read that when a bird has a blocked gizzard, eats grit, little objects etc in order to de-block it and that worsens the situation so you should isolate her that she will not have access at any solid little objects. I had a pigeon with such symptoms who died because continued to eat big grains, grit etc.
> ...


Thank you so much for reply. There are no seeds no vomitting. Do I give her honey only. How much honey?


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

kunju said:


> I was also thinking of sour crop. Please check if her crop is emptying properly, or is the food staying in the crop, unable to go down further.
> Is there any rotten smell from her mouth?
> I suggest to let her go without food for a day or two, and add a few drops of ACV into her drinking water. I don't know what the expensive oil is...haven't heard of it, but I assume the honey would be great, since it is a natural antibiotic. Be careful when you give the honey, I use a dropper instead of the syringe because I have more control over it and less chances of aspiration which could kill the bird. You need to insert the dropper way back into the throat as suggested, beyond the air hole, and release it there.
> I also suggest you give metronidazole, for canker.


Thank you so much for reply. There is no bad smell. I see you are indian. Nice meeting you. Please tell where to buy ACV. I will take care to feed honey. How much honey and how many times? Please reply again. I don't have ACV. Can I use vinegar used to make pickle(achar)?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

...Mani... said:


> How much honey?


 2-3 ml (depending of bird's size) / 3 times a day


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi Manisha,
> When I hear of white watery droppings then three things come to my mind. Paratyphoid, hexamitiasis or worm infestation. These three things may cause white diarrhea. Unless you can get a diagnosis,nothing can be said for sure.
> In my experience,
> When pigeons are affected by paratyphoid,they usually show less activity? How active your hen is?
> ...


Thank you much for reply. No hanging pouch. She actually look hungry every time. She has a thin crop.
You gave me three problems. I am worried for my pigeon. What should I treat first of all.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

AndreiS said:


> 2-3 ml (depending of bird's size) / 3 times a day


Thanks. I go buy honey


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

If her crop is emptying properly and there is no bad smell from the mouth, I am getting the feeling it could not be sour crop. In that case, you can feed her as you normally would, since her digestive system is through.

Jass has lot of experience with birds, so I hope he guides you with regard to the medicines. 
Hope your bird heals soon.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Mani,please tell for how many days is she pooping white water with droppings? Is she pooping white water with droppings like this everytime or few times a day. Please answer the questions to get help.

Did you deworm the bird? If yes with what dewormer? Basically I want to ask if you used a broad spectrum one or not... Do you see ecto parasites on the bird too?

I looked again and again on droppings pics and I think its candida + a bacterial infection. Do a little work...remove water from her cage/loft at night,wake up early in the morning and pick up a fresh(means not dried up) dropping with bare fingers. Yes its dirty but you need to do it. If the fresh dropping is brown in color and sticky and don't fall off immediately off your fingers then the bird may have candida as well.
And when a bird has candida,any sweet or sugary thing will feed the candida and it will overgrow in just ONE NIGHT. I don't think,instead I believe 2-3 ml honey is a lot for a pigeon to take. This much honey can have devastating effect on sick pigeon. Honey can provoke chlamydia in pigeons also. Usually honey is used just two or three drops in the morning if needed so that it can activate or as they say it can give a wake up jerk to the organs to tell them to get up and do their work. Honey also help to detoxify but only few drops occasionally. Or two/three drops of honey can be given to birds who are exhausted or tired by racing or training or are dehydrated. If one wants to lubricate the crop in case of crop statis then few drops of luke warm olive oil and crop massage is the best thing to be done.

To your other question to kunju:
ACV is made up of organic apple cider that has "mother" unfiltered in it. So non fruit vinegars used to make pickles CANNOT be used as a substitute. You can use ACETIC acid(medical grade) that is available in the chemist shops.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi Manisha,
> When I hear of white watery droppings then three things come to my mind. Paratyphoid, hexamitiasis or worm infestation. These three things may cause white diarrhea. Unless you can get a diagnosis,nothing can be said for sure.


He posted some photos on another page:


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hey Andre,
Yes I saw the photos posted by her in her album. It was just an expression was using because I just don't wanna jump to conclusions before having intel on the whole situation. In my opinion,jumping to conclusions and giving wrong medications can do more harm than any good. That's why I didn't recommend any treatment yet so far.


Hey Mani, remove corn and black chicken peas from her diet as they demand lot of water to digest and they may also cause anorexia. Give your bird other small seeds to check if she eats them.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you for all help. She behave little less active and sit in her cage. When I put her out of the cage she go back in. She coo also. When she drinks water she pass white water in droppings. She is pooping like this for a week.
In morning I saw her dropping was brown sticky but nice and round.

I wormed her in december with ivermectin.
As you said Jass,I remove corn and black chicken peas from mix. She didnot eat in morning but now she ate more than 1 tablespoon. And drink lot of water.

Please help me what to do?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I'm reluctant to advice deworming the bird because deworming a sick bird can have a devastating effect on the bird. Afterall deworming med is a poison and can actually kill an already sick bird.

The droppings doesn't look like typical hexamita droppings. Mani, does the droppings smell bad also?? Because foul smell is typical symptom of hexamita.

I would deworm the hen with a broad spectrum dewormer and then give her probiotics and acetic acid since you can't find ACV, and I would wait for few days to see if PH balance of her gut becomes normal and her droppings changes to normal.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Ok. Thank you.
I have Albomar for chicken used for all types of worms. I will give it to her. Do I not feed her during worming? Is two three drops correct doseing?


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> The droppings doesn't look like typical hexamita droppings. Mani, does the droppings smell bad also?? Because foul smell is typical symptom of hexamita.


No,the droppings have no bad smell. I smell 4 droppings,none have bad smell.

I'm going to worm her. Please tell do I not feed her?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I would not use Albomar to deworm her. MOST dewormers are unsafe for pigeons. Look for a dewormer that has praziquantel for tape worms + ivermectin for other type of worms which are commonly found in pigeons. Donot use any albendazole,fenbendazole,febantel based dewormers. Go for those dewormers that have praziquantel+ivermectin or pyrantel pamoate or both.
I'm currently using Pfizers combo dewormer which has praziquantel and ivermectin in it.
Dose for
-praziquantel is 6 mg per medium sized pigeon
-pyrantel pamoate is 2 mg per pigeon for 1-2 days depending on worm infestion
-ivermectin is 2-3 drops orally


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you so much for helping me.

UPDATE: After 2-3 days of deworming,my hen dropping was normal. I was so happy. Now she has white water in droppings again. Please tell what to do. Should I deworm again?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What did you deworm with? Nomally one does it one day, then like 12 days later. You gave her med for 3 days?


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you for reply Jay3.
I used praziquantel combined with ivermectin. Dose was 6mg as told above by Jass. I donot give med for three days. Just one day.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Yes Manisha, your hen would need to be dewormed again. You should deworm your hen after a gap of 21 days. Does your dewormer drug has instructions on it? You must follow them

Many dewormers kill only live worms,not killing those in larval stages. No dewormer would affect worm eggs. To break the life cycle of worms by targetting the newly hatched worms before they reach sexual maturity,you should deworm your birds ATLEAST TWICE with 21 days gap.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

There were no instructions on the pills. Actually my cow vet gave me two pills for free as we his regular clients. He gave me free for only one pigeon

I will deworm with 21 days gap. Should I deworm with 12 days gap also because white water in droppings is now at present.

How you people say keeping pigeon is very easy???????? Its lot to do. Parrot is fun


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I'm sorry that you're having a hard time keeping pigeons. Well,its not easy caring for other sort of pets either. Next time you shall be careful not to buy sick pigeons. Always buy them from a reputable source.

Speaking about deworming, if you have dewormed your hen with praziquantel+ivermectin, then I would not use the same med to deworm now. The same med should definitely be used to deworm after 21 days but for now I will go for pyrantel pamoate to deworm the birds. Ivermectin is not as effective against roundworms as pyrantel pamoate, which are more commonly found in pigeons than other types of worms. A brand named "Nemocid" sells pyrantel pamoate for children. You can safely use that on your pigeons. Its cheap,just 12/- for 10ml packing, easily and readily available at all chemist shops(atleast here). If you deworm your birds tomorrow then use it again after 21 days gap. Let the praziquantel cycle go on as well.

When you dewormed your birds,did you find worms purging out in droppings? If yes ,what sort of worms did you find??? Since you didn't run fecal float,so important to know what worms you found(if a certain type of worms in particular)...


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you for all advice.
There is no reputable source of buying pigeons here. My four pigeons died in 2013. Now in dec 2013 I buy this hen which is ill. If she dies I quit pigeons forever.

I found nemocid easily. Actually here we have all people with cattle,chicken,ducks,fish,horse,camel,goats,sheep etc.,they have some medicine always ready. They give me for free for my only one pigeon 

Yes,after deworming worms came out. Two types of worms I saw. One of worms was more than 15 centimeters. I checked google,it was tapeworm. There was a bundle of worms that came out after pyrantel pamoate. I think it was roundworms. I could be wrong. Is there any other thing I need to do?
Thanks in advance for reply


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

My hen has start eating his own droppings. I give her grit. She do eat lot of grit and less feed but also eat her dry droppings. She gulp them whole. I clean her cage daily to not let her eat droppings but when I go to school she eat in my absense. My mom first notice her eating droppings,now I confirm. is it normal?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Put earth for her, some pigeons like to eat earth. Could be dried or moisted, like the one sold for flowers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Probably lacking in minerals. You can get those online from pigeon supplies. Mineral blocks. I would be careful in feeding earth, as you don't know what is in it. Could be worm eggs in there also.


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