# Friendly ferals have won our hearts



## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

This looks like it's going to be a change from the usual post I've read here while lurking for a while. Hope you all enjoy.

My wife and I have been keeping a feeder filled during the winter months here in Michigan, and the weather is now changing for the better. We've been feeding our backyard squirrels peanuts while the pigeons have looked on and competed over the feeder with the blue jays, sparrows, cardinals, and grackles for the better part of the last 3 years. This January the pigeons decided to get curious as to what the humanses has in their handses. 

It all started in the middle of a short cold snap we'd had toward end of January. This past winter has been one of the oddest ever in living here most of my life. It's otherwise been quite warm and we've been able to spend a huge amount more time outdoors this season than any other that I can remember. 

We also got more rain than snow, and our yard fills with a good sized puddle due to poor drainage, making it difficult to get out to where the feeder was. Thus, one afternoon while feeding the squirrels and occasionally tossing a peanut half to a couple pigeons that had congregated around where we had set out seed for the birds on our deck, one of the pigeons got brave and ended up on my hand when she caught me peeling shells. Soon, the rest of the flock caught on about how this new game with the humans works and we now have a flock of very friendly ferals that will stop in twice each day for seed, peanuts and companionship. 

We don't mind it a bit. It's been an absolute blast so far! We're starting to recognize and name individuals and figure out personalities, and will even sit with us when we don't have seed or nuts. I've been weekly spraying off the deck with our hose to keep it clean, but I wonder if anyone has any better ideas of what I might set up away from the deck on which to feed the pigeons and others, and to help keep the deck a bit cleaner? 

I usually use a couple of pieces of 4x4 plywood placed at the deck corners farthest away from the house, and set the seed down on top of those. It keeps most of the seed from falling through the cracks, but there's still a bit that will get kicked around and fall through the cracks between the decking. I have caught the pigeons and sparrows going under the deck to clean up the overspill, and I know to feed only twice daily, so I'm not too worried about attracting much in the way of vermin. 

Also, what's everyone's feeling on continuing to feed as the weather warms up? Should we start weaning? Any other things that we should keep an eye out for and consider as we continue to play with and care for our new friends?

Thanks in advance for any help and ideas.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for providing you new pals with some winter sustenance....a few pics would be hecka fun to see (go to 'go advanced', then below the new reply window click the 'attachments' button).

Do keep an eye for mice or rats at night as they will tend to be attracted to the seed detritus.

I guess you can expect that as time goes on, the group will get bigger...as Pigeons hang out with and tend to follow each other, on any given day one or two might see your Flock heading towards you and join in. It's like that old shampoo commercial ("they told 2 friends, and they told 2 friends, and so on..."). 

So if that becomes too much, you can start to curtail the feedings a bit. Maybe make them shorter.

Only other thing I'd note is...are there hawks in your area ? If so...given some time...the daily meals may attract them (to the Pigeons); in which case, if you wish to continue you will need to curtail the feedings and shuffle the feeding times; because a hawk will catch on to particular times. Just a forewarning...maybe (I hope) I am being a bit overcautious....but do keep an eye for hawks....

Other things to look for.....well...look for babies. These cuties will be making squeaking sounds, they appear a bit skinny, may be moving sorta awkwardly....and their ceres (nose area) are not as bright and fleshy as an adult's....thus making their beaks look spindly and longer. They may also be getting knocked around by some of the adults....

Thanks for posting...sounds like some fun going on there ! They are incredibly peaceful and sweet birds, aren't they ?


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

*Photos and more thoughts on hawks*

I've seen hawks in on them in the past, before we got to know them this well. I have no idea where the pigeons roost so have no way to keep any control over breeding. I have thought this through and welcome the hawks. I'd love to see them stick around and help to keep my flock within a good size. It's what they're meant to do anyway.

Here's a few photos of the gang.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh, and as to the babies -- yes, we're seeing them. I figure this is a wild flock that's been breeding a while so there's not much else I can do to stop them other than to stop feeding them. Likely will have to keep the feeds at a low simmer.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

And as far as peaceful and sweet? I'm entirely captivated by these critters. I work from home so I don't spend much time away from here except weekends, so this seems pretty perfect, a batch of outdoor bird pets that are mostly self sufficient. My cats simply ignore them, which is the funniest thing ever. The squirrels are jealous.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Great pics! Enjoy them! Keep the feedings to what you can handle and have it be fun and not work. Maybe you can just keep feeding those that are most happy to earn the food by sitting on your arms etc. Really like that red!


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks Woodnative! That red is one of two that show up here, though the red in this picture only showed up in the last week or so from who knows where. Funny thing, he came right to us when he saw the rest of the birds feeding from our hands, as if it were the most natural thing to do for him. I keep wondering who else has been feeding and taming them down, if I've got someone's neglected pet flock or just got lucky with some damned good birds. Some of these guys are happy to cuddle in my hands and allow me to stroke their necks, backs, even wings, but it seems like only certain birds will put up with it.

I'm learning the look of the younger birds by the duller eye color. We had a squeaker show up with the flock 3 weeks ago that took to us immediately, a real cuddler. He seemed barely able to keep up with the flock. Now he's growing up and isn't having much trouble, but he's like any other pre-teen kid -- gangly and awkward.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Wow, Your flock are particularly pretty and healthy looking. I've never seen one coloured quite like your red, and the pure blacks are rare here too.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks Bella. First feeding in an hour.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Great looking flock! I can see that some of them have some racing pigeon blood in them


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the pics. I thought a long time about posting a reply here, partly not to rain on the parade...but I am going to now.

I guess I am going to disagree with your assertion. If you feed Pigeons regularly, same place, same time....and this ends up attracting hawks ...which you welcome...and the hawks kill the Pigeons which would have ended up foraging elsewhere and likely not congregating is such conspicuous groups...

...you are drawing there by feeding them....

...and, with all due respect...this is not just "nature's way". You are actually putting the Pigeons in a dangerous situation by welcoming hawks.

If the mealtime visitors increase due to your feedings....you have now put your own hand into the mix and bear some responsibility...so, again with due respect....whether you wanna admit it or not, IMHO you have had a profound influence in placing them in a predatory situation which otherwise may well not have been....

I hope it never goes that way, but... once you find a few mortally injured ones, maybe even one which was a favorite of yours, or maybe watch a new fledgling founder because her parents have been killed....or one day you see a new baby tagging along with the parents and then the next day, the parents but no baby (hawks love killing babies, relatively easy pickings)....then you may well reconsider how you feel about it. 
It isn't a very good thing to experience, and one cannot deny that they may have set the table for such.

So, whether YOU are personally comfortable with such a dynamic or NOT...I dunno if that is the issue here. I think sometimes when we choose to feed, we are interjecting ourselves into 'nature's way'...and we bear a responsibility and need to act responsibly.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Jaye, Just IMO it depends so much on the area where you live & whether there is any decent nourishment available for the local ferals. 

Sometimes making the decision to feed or not comes down to the lesser of two evils- either offering the pigeons a well nourished life due to being fed -with a slight possibly of it being shortened due to predation- versus a short life living in a state of starvation and malnutrition, followed by a slow death due to illness and scarcity of food. 

I personally really hate seeing the suffering caused by malnourishment, starvation, and disease. I watched it for a couple of years before learning how to help, and now I am glad to see a bit of longevity in the local flock...or at least relief from constant pain & hardship. I only started to feed them becuase its the only way I know how to catch them fast enough to help them when they are sick.

Having said that, I lost my favourite little wild hen to a peregrine falcon last month and it still hurts like crazy. You're right that its so awful to go through it. I try to think of it it terms of her providing a good meal to hungry, beautiful falcon (though I know that in so many cases they get chased away from their kills and the death is a waste).

I guess for me, I hate witnessing the suffering caused by disease and starvation more than the suffering caused by predation.

Anyway, not really disagreeing with you, I thought you raised some really excellent points.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Just a quick update -- this flock of birds just continues to amaze me in how smart, funny and competitive they can all be. Some of the youngest birds have turned out to be the bravest. A youngster we met a month ago, shortly after he first appeared in the flock and followed the adults to our peanut-laden hands, now wrestles the biggest males over the privilege. 

Bela, thanks for the support. I don't think that I could do anything to discourage the hawks, and my yard is actually a nice haven from the hawks during the summer. There's a huge maple tree that covers the house and back yard, and we've not seen the hawk back in the yard since the leaves popped 3rd week of March this year. I'm doing more benefit than bad here, and I can recognize your concerns. As I've seen younger birds grow the flock size, I wonder how long before I'm not feeding 20-30 birds at a time, but 100-200. Yes, I'd welcome the hawks when I consider that scenario. I've no other way to trim them down unless I buy a pellet gun and start hunting them myself.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh, the other thing -- These birds do somewhat better than most humans at one test of intelligence. They go where the finger points instead of looking at the hand. If I drop a peanut and point to it, they go where I point and pick it up, or if I point toward where I've laid down seed that none of them are on yet, one or two get my hand signals and my "Look! Look! Look!" call right away and go after it, and several will follow. And I say names and that individual will come right away. Smart!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you look like you have close neighbors.. I hope they like them too as the feeding will attact perhaps even more and someone may complain..usually the ones who do not like pigeons and their droppings.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Yeah, suburban Detroit neighborhood, small lots. Houses to my east and west are rentals. Birds mostly hang out on my own roof or at the top of a utility pole to my southeast along the property border behind homes. Tenants on one side doesn't mind the birds, thinks it's need what we're doing with them, says if the mess becomes a problem will say so. I don't think the tenant on the other side is even aware as she's a homebound elderly lady with orthopedic problems and the birds rarely move over her property. Directly out back is a property that's having home rebuilt. Other neighbors out back haven't said anything but are likely also tenants living in rentals and are unlikely to say much.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

This is a dilemma that many bird feeders face. To feed or not to feed. I have had a feed station set up for several years now. I feed a variety of small birds from wrens and sparrows to gold finches and cardinals. The squirrels, chipmunks, and rabbits stop by to see what the birds are eating and I even get an occasional crow checking out the commotion. 

I love watching their antics, courtship rituals, and even their fights over the last crumbs. It is one of natures color fests. But along with the beauty, comes the beasts. I have several falcons and hawks that know my place very well. I certainly did not set up my feeders to provide them lunch, but it does happen occasionally. Most of the time, the feeder birds get away into the pines, bushes, and trees that we have planted for their protection, but....

I know that my feeders congregate the birds and may make them a target. I also know that the birds visiting my feeders could, and would, survive without them. Unless there is a really severe winter or other inclement weather, they would probably get along fine on their own. But I am selfish, and want to see God's creatures up close and personal. 

I'm not sure if this makes me a bad person or not. I know that the hawks and falcons will take a number of birds out in the wild areas as well as at my feeders. I have tried to provide some protection when the feeder birds decide to bless me with a visit. I also try to convince myself that there really is a balance to my madness. Having feed and water readily available helps the birds raise healthy young, that will raise more healthy, happy young. And so the beat goes on.


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

Another thing -- we're planning to go away for a few days soon and aren't worrying about anyone filling in on the feedings for us while we're gone. We hope that the birds will take the opportunity to start looking elsewhere for forage when we're gone.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Its kind of sad that helping out wild birds by feeding them has turned into a guilty pleasure for anyone who cares, whereas generations ago it was actively encouraged. I was told by a local birder that our government (ie Australian government) used to have an official policy of encouraging people to put up feeders in the 50's and 60's because of the destruction of natural habitat & food sources by humans, especially in urban environments. To think that something so obvious and true was officially acknowledged back then...and now local governments are paranoid about losing popularity so they condemn acts of helping wildlife instead of trying to live in harmony with it.

One encouraging piece of information I heard: There is a professional ornithologist I know & his job is to design management plans for `pest' birds, say at airports etc. In my town, there are some spots where many flocks of crows congregate at night and roost together in the winter, so they can get noisy. Some local residents complained and demanded they be killed, and the media got wind of it and condemned the crows as well. So my ornithologist acquaintance had to investigate. 

He did a proper survey of every resident in the area, and these were the results: 50% of local residents didn't even notice there were crows. 20% knew there were crows and were ambivalent. 20% knew there were crows and loved them and fed them. And only 10% hated them and wanted them dead. So the crows were left alone in peace


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Its kind of sad that helping out wild birds by feeding them has turned into a guilty pleasure for anyone who cares, whereas generations ago it was actively encouraged. I was told by a local birder that our government (ie Australian government) used to have an official policy of encouraging people to put up feeders in the 50's and 60's because of the destruction of natural habitat & food sources by humans, especially in urban environments. To think that something so obvious and true was officially acknowledged back then...and now local governments are paranoid about losing popularity so they condemn acts of helping wildlife instead of trying to live in harmony with it.
> 
> One encouraging piece of information I heard: There is a professional ornithologist I know & his job is to design management plans for `pest' birds, say at airports etc. In my town, there are some spots where many flocks of crows congregate at night and roost together in the winter, so they can get noisy. Some local residents complained and demanded they be killed, and the media got wind of it and condemned the crows as well. So my ornithologist acquaintance had to investigate.
> 
> He did a proper survey of every resident in the area, and these were the results: 50% of local residents didn't even notice there were crows. 20% knew there were crows and were ambivalent. 20% knew there were crows and loved them and fed them. And only 10% hated them and wanted them dead. So the crows were left alone in peace



The Thing is here in the USA, wild bird feeding is looked upon as nice and good.. but the pigeon is considerd an invasive species.. and not to mention the city pigeons causing droppings and discust with shop owners and the word spreads about rats with wings and such..so really they are looked at different than say a cardinal or a golden finch. they have no protection and only some like to feed them and care.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

What is really ironic is I do a lot of walking around our neighborhood. As I walk, I notice the sidewalks are covered in several areas under bird nests with bird droppings from every kind of bird, except pigeons. No one raises a stink until someone brings in a flock of pigeons, or in our city, chickens. Then the alarms go off and we are treated like terrorist trying to drop the fecal bomb.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> The Thing is here in the USA, wild bird feeding is looked upon as nice and good.. but the pigeon is considerd an invasive species.. and not to mention the city pigeons causing droppings and discust with shop owners and the word spreads about rats with wings and such..so really they are looked at different than say a cardinal or a golden finch. they have no protection and only some like to feed them and care.


Another irony - the English sparrow is much more of a problem in many areas. It's another"import"that is found side by side with the rock pigeon. In some areas, it is much more common than the pigeon, and yet it has not met with the same malice as pigeons. Although not necessarily loved, it doesn't seem to have the same evil reputation as the pigeon. Go figure!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I do not see where pigeons or sparrows have caused any total disasters yet.. a bit troublesome maybe?....lol.. so I think I will decide to like both.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

almondman said:


> Another irony - the English sparrow is much more of a problem in many areas. It's another"import"that is found side by side with the rock pigeon. In some areas, it is much more common than the pigeon, and yet it has not met with the same malice as pigeons. Although not necessarily loved, it doesn't seem to have the same evil reputation as the pigeon. Go figure!





spirit wings said:


> I do not see where pigeons or sparrows have caused any total disasters yet.. a bit troublesome maybe?....lol.. so I think I will decide to like both.


I go out dancing 1 night a week with my friends....and being single, my friends are always trying to 'find' someone for me (I keep telling them to knock it off!!!!....I go to dance, not to 'find' someone)
Long story short......one of my friends brought a friend of her boyfriend out....to meet me  Talking, I mentioned I had alot of birds  LOL He asks "pigeons?" I say yes.......he says "rats with wings!" WELL......I educated him a bit and said "it was nice meeting you"......Another one bites the dust! LOL


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Gotta protect the kid's reputations!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I've come to the conclusion that people don't like rats or pigeons because they are 'survivors' and very smart........people don't like anything that make themselves look stupid!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I hear ya!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I've come to the conclusion that people don't like rats or pigeons because they are 'survivors' and very smart........people don't like anything that make themselves look stupid!


Giggle, yeah...

Plus they are very friendly and therefore more in our faces...

PS. Wild rock pigeons are not considered invasive in our country (Australia) because they can't survive in environments occupied by native species...they live around humans and that's all. Native pigeons are usually too shy to live around humans and have different food , shelter, & nesting requirements.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Bella_F said:


> Giggle, yeah...
> 
> *Plus they are very friendly and therefore more in our faces...*
> 
> PS. Wild rock pigeons are not considered invasive in our country (Australia) because they can't survive in environments occupied by native species...they live around humans and that's all. Native pigeons are usually too shy to live around humans and have different food , shelter, & nesting requirements.


Yes! Much more friendly..........and less demanding


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## RevEggplant (Apr 24, 2012)

See, it's getting such that there's just tons of square miles of suburban space growing up around our urban centers here in the States, into which the former citybound pigeons are moving. I've been in this area for the better part of 40 years and we'd never had pigeons around. We'd go to downtown Detroit or over toward Royal Oak or Ferndale and see the pigeons there all the time. Just within the last 3 or 5 years I started seeing small groups of pigeons hanging around our bird feeder out back, never more than 4-6 at a time, and usually a grackle would sit in the feeder and knock seed out for the pigeons and other birds. We'd tried tossing peanuts around when we saw them on our deck, but the arm swing to toss over the distance to the birds would shoo them off more often than not. Now I'm counting 30-40 heads in for breakfast most mornings, and there are just a bunch of young birds in with them now.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Interesting about the pigeons expanding into the suburbs. I've been feeding pigeons in NYC where there are tons of pigeons everywhere you look. There are even pigeons foraging around and courting in the middle of the night as long as it is sufficiently lit. I have been feeding the same birds regularly for the last five years, and I don't have a larger number coming now than when I first started. First of all there's quite a lot of food for them everywhere and so they stay in a very small area. The pigeons that I see on a particular city block or two, I see daily in those two city blocks only and nowhere else, so the pigeons that I feed at my window are the pigeons that live on my building plus another 20 whose nesting locations I have not seen directly - but probably the building next door. Second, there are a lot of hawks in the neighborhood because the only surviving old growth forest in Manhattan is at the back of my building. But there are hawks everywhere in Manhattan and they are totally blase about people - can occasionally be seen even perching on a buildings' fire escapes. To not attract the attention of the hawks, I try not to have my pigeons come to eat in a flock, but a few at a time. This works because I happen to keep a very irregular schedule myself, so my pigeons get to eat at all different times. But they also get to eat so often and so much that each comes at it's own pleasure, because it knows it will be fed whenever it shows up. That's only possible because I work from home so am always there, and the pigeons perform a valuable service for me too: they make me get up from my chair often which is great for my back since without them I could work for 12 hours without remembering to get up and stretch. So it works out for everybody.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I can relate , Eva, as I work from home too. I used to be very social and surrounded by people, so I think I would feel a bit lonely without the birds, since I don't socialise like I once did. Also, after decades of dealing with all kinds of people , its so relaxing & even healing being in the company of birds- they appraise us in such a different way than people do. .their appraisal feels more real and humane, and not just about how we look or our symbols of status. Birds care more about character, and reward your patience, gentleness and generosity, unlike some people. I find that they are also teaching me a lot about setting boundaries, which is a weak point with me. 

Anyway, nice to her a bit about your life over there...


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Bella_F said:


> ....its so relaxing & even healing being in the company of birds- they appraise us in such a different way than people do. .their appraisal feels more real and humane, and not just about how we look or our symbols of status. Birds care more about character, and reward your patience, gentleness and generosity, unlike some people.


Very true and very beautifully said, Bella.


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