# Tar on pigeons



## rshaud (Nov 29, 2008)

I feed a flock on a pier in Brooklyn, NY. A number of birds perch beneath a nearby overpass and become covered in what appears to be tar or grease. We call them the "chimney sweeps" due to their dirty, blackened appearance. I have had good luck catching the birds to remove string and fishing line so if I knew what to use to clean them up, I could do it. The weather is becoming quite cold and I fear that without their natural insulation, they may die. I thought molting would eventually solve the problem but some have been like this since early spring.
In addition, the overpass is covered in chicken wire to keep the birds out. Periodically, they manage to create an opening (I've no idea how they do it) and they return to perching there. The city invariably sends a crew out to patch the hole and some of the birds become trapped and die. If I knew when the city planned the repair, I'm sure most of the birds could be lured out to safety with food. Unfortunately, I doubt the city would be interested in such a plan. Any suggestions?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi rshaud

I started to put up some links for you but there are so many threads over the years dealing with this that you may want to read all of them so try doing a search of "removing grease" and see if any of those will help.


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## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

i would say a mild solution of "fairy"(washing up detergent,for dishes etc),this has been used by folks who help oiled birds and wildlife,its quite mild and sensitive


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

tuxedobaby said:


> i would say a mild solution of "fairy"(washing up detergent,for dishes etc),this has been used by folks who help oiled birds and wildlife,its quite mild and sensitive


In the States, it would be Dawn dish soap. The one that's safe for wildlife is identified on the front label.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Be careful about using any detergents, most if not all contain Sodium lauryl sulphate, a wetting agent which allows the detergent to penetrate the waterproofing of the feathers. The USDA uses it to kill birds by simply setting up a fine water spray where birds roost in old weather that contains Lauryl sulphate. What that means is that the birds need some time to replace their natural oils for waterproofing after being washed in detergent, otherwise once they get wet in cold weather. So don't wash, dry and release, keep them inside for a couple of weeks or so.

The netting problem has an obvious solution and some kind souls employ it. The chicken wire doesn't break by itself.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I have used 'Dawn' however many times, and the best thing one say for it, is that it works better than nothing.


The Horse version of 'Main and Tail' Shampoo, works very well.


Wet the Bird, apply some Shampoo directly to the Feathers, and massage and work it in, then, rinse and repeat.


'Tar' as such, is not going to wash out with any Soaps or Shampoos...but, will dissolve with Paint Thinner...where, one would do a small area at a time, using a small folded Cloth, having applied the Paint Thinner ( aka 'Mineral Spirits' ) and wiping both sides of each Feather by squeezing it between the Cloth and wiping away from the root, with firmness. Being careful not to saturate the Feathers close to their roots, and or careful to keep it off of the Bird's skin...also, doing this in a way where the Bird is not breating the mild fumes...so, do outdoors, in a breeze, with the Bird's Head upwind.


This is followed by a couple rounds of Shampoos and rinses.





Usually what one finds for dark oily stuff on Pigeons, is fast food oils dripping out of dumpsters or reclaimation containers, where the Birds get this on them by walking under these things...enough of this, and they are saturated,and no longer able to fly.


'Main and Tail' should work well for these...or, for when they have old Crankcase Oils on them also.




Phil
l v


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## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

Charis said:


> In the States, it would be Dawn dish soap. The one that's safe for wildlife is identified on the front label.


fairy/dawn is used for lots of stuff,its good stuff,also another brand(in uk,there is prob same in usa)is ECOVER,it is totally environmentaly friendly,they do range of all household detergents and soaps,washing stuff for clothes,dishes etc.it is made from natural products and kind to skin(or feathers)etc,i use these products round the house(i have dermititis from time to time)


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree with Phil , shampoos and soaps arent going to do much with petroleum based oils and tars . Paint thinners ( mineral spirits ....NOT acetone or laquer thinners ! ) wont hurt a bird if gently daubed on with a cloth and then rinsed in soapy water . 

I personally havnt tried this ... but I wouldnt be afraid to if need be , hand cleaner such as Go-Jo or any of the stuff from a parts store . Just get the plain creamy type NOT with the pumice . I 've used it for years cleaning my hands of grease , oil , paint etc and still alive and healthy . Rinses off easily , most have lanoline in the mixture also which would be good for the birds feet which is probably where the tar will be found . 

Hambone Bob


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

20 mule teem Borax may not get the tar, but it will clean the oil wont hurt the bird, and will kill the feather mytes. At least it doesn't hurt my birds.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hambone said:


> I agree with Phil , shampoos and soaps arent going to do much with petroleum based oils and tars . Paint thinners ( mineral spirits ....NOT acetone or laquer thinners ! ) wont hurt a bird if gently daubed on with a cloth and then rinsed in soapy water .
> 
> I personally havnt tried this ... but I wouldnt be afraid to if need be , hand cleaner such as Go-Jo or any of the stuff from a parts store . Just get the plain creamy type NOT with the pumice . I 've used it for years cleaning my hands of grease , oil , paint etc and still alive and healthy . Rinses off easily , most have lanoline in the mixture also which would be good for the birds feet which is probably where the tar will be found .
> 
> Hambone Bob




Hi Bob, all...



Far as I can say, 'Main and Tail' would be good for petroleum based Oils, Grease and the likes...'Dumpster' Oils and so on.

I know for my own Hair, when getting Oil or Car Grease out, the Horse version of 'Main and Tail' Shampoo is vastly better than 'Dawn'.

And...so far, 'M & T' has been far better than 'Dawn' for any Bird cleaning I have needed to do.




'Go-Jo' or any Solvents, we have to make sure none gets on the Bird's skin...


'Main and Tail' you can Shampoo the whole Bird with no problem.


So, Tars, wiping individual Feathers with a small folded cloth lightly saturated with Paint Thinner, is fine, but keep things so no Solvent is dripping or getting on their Skin.


Paints or other, kinds of things, have to decide on a case by case basis...



I had that one recently, which had what seemed like a 'clear silicone' stuff saturated in their Wings and Tail Feathers...and wiping each Feather, between a folded cloth wetted with Paint Thinner, followed with 'M & T' Shampooing and rinses, worked well.



Phil
l v


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

I use mane 'n tail on my hair and it's excellent, rinses out very easily too so that would be good in this case, but it does tend to burn if it gets in the eyes (more than other shampoos I've tried) so I would be careful not to get any on their eyes perhaps.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

1% dawn solution is the Bird and Wildlife centers cleanser of choice for oiled birds.

This link on the IBRRC's (International Bird Rescue Research Center in CA) page details how to do it:
http://www.ibrrc.org/oiled_bird_procedures.html

As for specifically tar, I would call the IBRRC at (707) 207-0380 and ask what they suggest as they spend a large percentage of their time removing oil and other sticky messes from birds.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

penname said:


> I use mane 'n tail on my hair and it's excellent, rinses out very easily too so that would be good in this case, but it does tend to burn if it gets in the eyes (more than other shampoos I've tried) so I would be careful not to get any on their eyes perhaps.




Oh yeah...Eyes, Nostrils...


If a Bird needed their Head to be cleaned, I'd do it as a seperate sessions or two, and be very very delicate and careful not to have any Shampoo or Water getting into Eyes or Nostrils.


Possibly just using Q-Tips if needing to clean close to these...


I have no idea why 'Dawn' ended up acquiring the universal reputation as being the one to use for Birds, it's not that good, and most any 'good' Shampoo is better, and the Horse version of 'Main and Tail' is definitely THE 'best' Shampoo I've ever tried.


Working on old Cars and Trucks, I'd often gotten old Oils or Greases in my Hair, and have tried many different Shampoos and Dish-Washing-Soaps...'Dawn' inluded.


'M & T' is outstanding and very yet very mild.


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

karijo said:


> 1% dawn solution is the Bird and Wildlife centers cleanser of choice for oiled birds.
> 
> This link on the IBRRC's (International Bird Rescue Research Center in CA) page details how to do it:
> http://www.ibrrc.org/oiled_bird_procedures.html
> ...




Hi karijo,



Maybe they like to really take for-ever to get something done.

1 percent solution is not going to do anything.

Full Strength is not even going to work very well, has not worked all that well in my experience, or will not work any better than a non-scented Bar Soap like 'Ivory'.


Last one I did, I used 'Main and Tail' straight, 100 percent, applying directly on a wetted Pigeon, on their Feathers, and worked it in with my fingers...massaged it in and rinsed...


The method of the "IBRRC" makes no sense, and can not possibly be effective.


No wonder thay take 'Months' to get a Bird 'clean'..!


Lol...


Heck, if they did it right, they could do it in a day...or over a couple days...and be 'done'...where, one allows the Bird time either way, to renew their own Natural Feather Oils in preening...and this phase does take many weeks or months even. But at least one has saved Months already, by getting them clean a lot sooner.






Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pdpbison said:


> The method of the "IBRRC" makes no sense, and can not possibly be effective.
> 
> No wonder thay take 'Months' to get a Bird 'clean'..!
> Phil
> l v


Hi Phil,

Actually, the IBRRC protocol is the accepted method of treating oiled birds .. operative word is OILED as opposed to TARRED .. oiled and tarred are a bit different problems to deal with. Just chiming in here! In my experience, Dawn works OK on many things, but it doesn't get everything. I got in an adult male sparrow last night from animal control that is a glue trap bird .. Dawn wouldn't touch this mess .. this was a job for Detachol.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> Actually, the IBRRC protocol is the accepted method of treating oiled birds .. operative word is OILED as opposed to TARRED .. oiled and tarred are a bit different problems to deal with. Just chiming in here! In my experience, Dawn works OK on many things, but it doesn't get everything. I got in an adult male sparrow last night from animal control that is a glue trap bird .. Dawn wouldn't touch this mess .. this was a job for Detachol.
> 
> Terry




Hi Terry,


I have not confused Oil with 'Tar'.



Possibly you have not read the Thread?


Tar would not respond to Soaps/Shampoos.


'Detatchol' IS generic "Paint Thinner" to which a artificial-fake scent has been added...


Paint Thinner ( or 'Detatchol' ) is 'Mineral Spirits'.


Thus, is a Solvent...


This will work for various Tar and Adhesive-type contaminations, Heavy Oils, or will when it will.

BUT not by immersing the Bird as the "IBRRC" does with 'Dawn-solutions'.


Damn, I went into all this deatil in prior posts, I feel like a borken-record now, trying to explain again and again "how" these are different.




For any 'Oils' as such, the so-called protocols of the 'IBRRC' make absolutely no practical sense whatever...AND will do nothing for Solvent Based heavy materials such as adhesives or Tar.


For 'Oils' they do Fourty or sixty immersion 'baths' into a "1 percent Dawn' solution?????


Verses, a few sessions over a day or two using say 'Main and Tail' as it is meant TO be used?



I have no idea what their reasoning is, other than they never critically examined or evaluated how they do things...or why one would do it one way or another.


Everyone says use 'Dawn', because that's what everyone says...because...who knows...it got started 'as' the-way...


Meanwhile, it's a really poor method, especially if as a "1 percent solution"...requireing vastly more stress and hardship for the Bird, repeated and tedious 'immersions' for no reason other than lack of understanding and adherance to rote hear-say or some organization's poorly founded and dogmaticly asserted opinion.


If there is any reasoning behind their method, I'd like to know what it is.



Maybe I'll call them and ask.


As it is, I'd rather do things which work well, which occasion the minimum of stress or hardship for the Bird, and which qualify as 'practical' methods...no matter what the unexamined hear-say, rote, or institutional assertions may be.


So...


Golly...


Love..!


Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phil,

I've read the posts .. still going to send you this link: http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/wmh/13_2_8.pdf

This is one of those things that not all of us are going to agree on. You'll find a reference in the above link to a MUCH stronger solution of DAWN and perhaps a better presentation of the "accepted" protocol. Keep in mind that these oiled bird protocols are really for seabirds/waterbirds and NOT pigeons. I'll stand by Dawn working well for a lot of things but also agree with you that in some cases a radically different approach is needed. 

Incidentally, I, personally cannot see how "Mane and Tail" can work on some of the things you think it does. Granted it is a great shampoo for animals and humans as well, but it just doesn't have the "stuff" in it to work on some of these problems.

Terry


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

The reason I posted the IBRRC's protocol (which is identical to the way I learned to deal with oiled birds many years ago, and the way other Bird Rescue organizations I've worked with have done it) is because other people were mentioning Dawn as a possible solution.

I don't think anybody was confusing oil with tar - maybe my post was confusing?

I was trying to say that Dawn was used for oiled birds, and to _contact IBRRC for suggestions on dealing with tar_ (I'm pretty sure I wrote that in my first post...).

As for the comments about why they suggest a 1% solution: The IBRRC, and other wildlife rescuers, are solely concerned with the safest possible methods ensuring maximum number of survivors. 1% solution is the standard, it's been done that way for as long as I can remember, it's safe, it's effective - it may be slower than dunking a bird in straight soap, but remember we're dealing with wild and often very large seabirds (typically). Very different than trying to remain in control of a small semi-tame pigeon, ensuring that the product is not ingested or gotten into sensitive areas can be a little more difficult and we'd rather be safe than sorry.

Hope this helps clear up the original message and intention of my other post.

I still firmly suggest calling an experienced Bird Rescue and Rehab organization like IBRRC used to dealing with this sort of situation - they won't be guessing as to what might work here, they will most likely _know_.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TAWhatley said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I've read the posts .. still going to send you this link: http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/wmh/13_2_8.pdf
> 
> This is one of those things that not all of us are going to agree on. You'll find a reference in the above link to a MUCH stronger solution of DAWN and perhaps a better presentation of the "accepted" protocol. Keep in mind that these oiled bird protocols are really for seabirds/waterbirds and NOT pigeons. I'll stand by Dawn working well for a lot of things but also agree with you that in some cases a radically different approach is needed.



Hi Terry,



Makes sense.



Maybe someday the conversations evoking Sea Oil Spill Birds can bother to DISTINGUISH what is is fact BEING discussed, instead of promulgating assertions based on generalities which may not in fact apply to situations at hand.


Nor is there only one kind of so callled "Oil" involved IN these Sea Bird situations anyway for saying only "one" soultion is possible - "Dawn".






> Incidentally, I, personally cannot see how "Mane and Tail" can work on some of the things you think it does. Granted it is a great shampoo for animals and humans as well, but it just doesn't have the "stuff" in it to work on some of these problems.
> 
> Terry




Like what?


What is you think I said it would work on, which you think it would not work on?


What are you talking about?


What have I said??


"DETAILS"


Real information please.


What?



Phil
l v


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Terry,
> 
> I have not confused Oil with 'Tar'.
> Possibly you have not read the Thread?
> ...


Phil,
* Just a suggestion, why not just post the link(s) to the prior posts you are referring to? This would sure save you a lot of repetitious typing.

** That would probably be the best thing to do. 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

The Pigeons I get who have "Oil" on them, are...


1 ) Dumpster Birds - Pigeons who presumably for being born close to fast-food related Dumpsters, they end up going into the Dupsters and walking underneath them, eventually getting their entire Body's Feathers saturated with what becomes wax-like, rancid, Oxidised Vegetable Oils.


2 ) Ambulating sick or injured Pigeons who have been under vehicles, getting Chassis-Grease and dripping Crank-case Oil on them...or, Pigeons who for whatever reason, got used Crank-case Oil in their Feathers.


3 ) Unknown, 'Silicone-like' non-oxidised, viscous, sticky material. ( One instance ).



"Dawn" had NOT worked well for these...or rather, it did not work at all...at any concentration.




The ubiquitous promulgation of quoting hear-say about a protocol for Blue Herons with Great Lakes 'Bunker Oil' on them DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL SITUATIONS OF ALL KINDS OF "OILS", Maritime-related or other.



I am not dealing with Sea Birds, saturated from Crude Oil or Bunker Oil Spills.



Neither is anyone else here.




Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

karijo said:


> The reason I posted the IBRRC's protocol (which is identical to the way I learned to deal with oiled birds many years ago, and the way other Bird Rescue organizations I've worked with have done it) is because other people were mentioning Dawn as a possible solution.




Karijo,



There was nothing wrong with any of your Posts.


Everyone here always recites or brings-up 'Dawn' since that is what they heard, read, or believe...or to defer to quoting whattheyfeel is an 'authority', usually for any of any real experience or insight of their own to go by.


Meanwhile, what the Bird atually has on them, will tend to be the determining factor, pragmatically, as for what will work to clean them...and with this, what the concerns may be, for the Bird's comfort and safety.


Substances which 'Dawn' or other Soaps will not dissolve, require other cleaning agents and methods...andfor these agents and methods to be geared to the Bird's comfort and safety.






> I don't think anybody was confusing oil with tar - maybe my post was confusing?



Terry felt it was necessary so assert that I did not know or recognise the difference between Oil and Tar.


I have no idea why, and Terry has not explained herself as for 'why'.


I had already elaborated about the differences previously in this Thread.





> I was trying to say that Dawn was used for oiled birds, and to _contact IBRRC for suggestions on dealing with tar_ (I'm pretty sure I wrote that in my first post...).
> 
> As for the comments about why they suggest a 1% solution: The IBRRC, and other wildlife rescuers, are solely concerned with the safest possible methods ensuring maximum number of survivors. 1% solution is the standard, it's been done that way for as long as I can remember, it's safe, it's effective - it may be slower than dunking a bird in straight soap, but remember we're dealing with wild and often very large seabirds (typically). Very different than trying to remain in control of a small semi-tame pigeon, ensuring that the product is not ingested or gotten into sensitive areas can be a little more difficult and we'd rather be safe than sorry.
> 
> ...




Possibly, we would do well to bear in mind, that Maritime Oil Spills effecting Aquatic Birds, will often have some differences to Urban mis-adventures of Pigeons.



The 'IBRRC' would not be able to recommend recourses for things they never deal with, nor for things the person calling them can not identify anyway, as for what the substance is.



I have tried 'Dawn' quite a few times, even on my own Hair, and I was not very satisfied.


'Main and Tail' has worked very well on not only getting Oil and Grease out of my Hair, but also leaves my hair looking and feeling "clean".


'Dawn' would do neither even in routine non-oil-or-grease times, leaving a gummy not-clean look and feel, even if all I did was use it to shampoo wood or wind-dusts dust out of my Hair.



'Dawn' did not work very well at any concentration as follow-up for washing out Mineral Spirits residu from the recent Pigeon who had a clear-silicone-like 'goo' in their Feathers...and, "Main and Tail" did work beautifully for both washing out the Mineral Spirits residu, and for leaving those Feathers feeling clean and looking clean.


Hence, I wanted to share of what I had learned.




Phil
l v


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phil .. I will reply .. just haven't had time to do so yet .. hopefully tomorrow.

Terry


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