# Whats healthier to feed feral pigeons?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

msmely asked this question earlier in the following thread :-

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/whats-healthier-for-ferals-64913.html

Having thought about it a bit, I would like to ask the question again in the hope of getting some more comprehensive advice. Charis says that feeding wild bird seed to pigeons is like feeding candy. I have been buying a mix from Medicanimal that has a good mix of different seeds in it including something different every once in a while and a mild smell of aniseed. This is the link to the product:-

http://www.medicanimal.com/product/...y_id=MA-BIRDS-FOOD/~root_category_id=MA-BIRDS

As you will see, it is cheap and there is no delivery charge, delivery charges often make a product too expensive for me to buy. Some companies like Medicanimal seem to have deals with the delivery firms that allow them to very cheap deliveries. The pigeons seem to like this mix, inside and outside, although the better fed pigeons inside often sort through the seed for their favorites and leave a lot on the floor.

The foods that Medicanimal do specifically for pigeons are the following:-

http://www.medicanimal.com/setSessi...DS&pcategory=MA-BIRDS-PIGEONS&newLocale=en_GB

As you can see they are not that much more expensive. I am now beginning to wonder if the mixed seed is any good for the pigeons, and although the pigeon specific diet seems more boring, maybe the pigeons prefer it. Can anyone offer advice about the best food to feed for both hunger and nutrition. The weather in London has started to turn very cold, especially early in the morning when I try to sneak the food out to the pigeons before people get up and notice. I would like to give them something that will keep their stomach(crop) full but also provide a decent layer of nutrition. I have noticed that the little flock of pigeons that I feed look a lot healthier than the average London pigeon. They have well formed clean looking feathers and they do not have that oily look that a lot of the pigeons have. Its funny that the things people complain about pigeons are caused by us and the diet we force them to live on.

Even if you know of a food that is more expensive, but you think it will be better for pigeons trying to survive the winter, especially the late born babies who suffer a lot at this time of year(I bring them in if I can catch them before they die!!!) please still tell me about it. This may make a big difference to the way I try to help the pigeons in the winter!
A direct link to a food you recommend would be very appreciated.

Thank you,
Brian.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

As regards loft-kept pigeons, I would agree that a diet of wild bird mix would not be suitable, not having sufficient balance.

However, when it comes to feeding feral flocks in the cold weather, it would be fine IMO. Plenty of fat content is good in winter for active ferals, especially when one considers that the actual quantity any individual bird gets could be pretty variable.

The Conditioning mix you referred to (the aniseed aroma mix) is actually not dissimilar but better balanced for pigeons. It's used by many fanciers as a lure or treat when getting racing birds to trap in (some companies call it Trapping and Conditioning mix). The downside is cost, if bought online.

Another cheaper food with good nutrition is what suppliers often call High-Protein Economy which contains plenty of corn (maize), but I could not recommend a specific online supplier, as the delivery jacks the price up so much.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree with John.
Ferals live off whatever they can find out there, seeds, scraps, and lots of things that arent good for them, so any seed mix that contains even a few fattening seeds will be of an advantage to them.
The thing to check is that it is only a seed mix, and NOT a wild bird mix containing meal worms etc.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Actually, I was making reference to the wild bird seed sold here in the US. I did not take into account that you are in the UK.
I had you confused with member here in the US and I honestly have no idea the contents of the wild bird mix one can buy in the UK. Sorry.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Hmm ok, I have something puzzling to add.

As it is, my pigeon is pampered. Her diet is flown all the way from PA, USA that cost me about $150 at one go (that could last maybe 8 months?)... it's a perfect mix of:

_Canadian peas, red milo, white *****, maple peas, oat groats, austrian peas, whole wheat, safflower seed, white millet, canary seed, vetch, buckwheat and rice. Protein 16% (min), crude fat 3.5% (min), fiber 8% (min)_

So thinking it would be heavenly for the ferals, I decided to sprinkle them on the concrete (lots of them so it's enough for the whole clan), but guess what? They hated it! They came closer in excitement, gobbled up one or two, and then decided 'Yucks. We're not having any of that' and went back to the stale white bread that another kind samaritan had dumped before my approach.

Despite a balanced rare nutritious food being presented, they still prefer their 'normal' unhealthy diet - the same old stale bread they eat every day. I'm assuming it's because they've been conditioned to recognise _that_ as food, and anything else is dodgy. Or is stale white bread tastier than the said seeds??

Anyone has any take on that?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Alternatively, Brian, to answer your question... you can continue to feed them the normal seeds that you already have, but if you want balanced nutrition, you can cheat by coating the seeds with wheatgerm oil and then sprinkling them with this product (or similar). That way, when the pigeons consume the seeds, they are also consuming the wheatgerm oil (for better feathers and skin), and all the various vitamins in the powder (which substitutes for the lack of variety)

All you need is that $5.95 product, and the wheatgerm oil (I'm sure you can find in the local mart)... and the usual seeds you already have.

I just checked the shipping... it's uh.. $40+ (to London)... but I guess that's still economical rather than buying 10kg of seeds (which will amount to more!)

Hope this gives you an alternative to seeds purchase!


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been ill, sorry for the late reply.

Miss-Sassypants I like the idea of the vitamin/mineral powder you are talking about. Although the one you point to would be expensive to import, I'm sure there must be an equivalent closer to home. I sometimes worry that cheaper vitamin mixes are not absorbed well, but if you are a street pigeon in the cold anything is better than nothing. I need to look up the cost of wheatgerm oil, again I am sure there will be a cheap option locally. I hope they like the taste.

On your other point about pigeons not taking to the 'healthy option', I have also had this problem. I try to always carry some seeds and nuts in my coat as I occasionally see sick looking pigeons on the street . I have very little chance of catching them without my net, but at least I can give them some food. I have often had the problem you talk of, where a lone pigeon will walk up to the seed I have left out for it, look at it a couple of times, and decide to carry on digging around the dirt looking for food. They have simply never or almost never seen what should be their natural food. I assume their natural caution kicks in and they decide not to take a chance. This seems to happen less in groups of pigeons, as nearly always one of the pigeons is familiar with the seed and if the others see him/her eating they will also eat.

Charis you were talking to someone else originally I have just jumped on the subject because it is very relevant to me at the moment. I wanted to give you due acknowledgement in the post, I did not mean to confuse you, sorry.

John_D the bigger types of peas and wheat and corn that is in the 'conditioning mix' seems to me would provide more energy and fat that the seed mix I am using and also have better nutrition, is this right?
If so, I may be able to order a sack of normal mixed seed and a sack of conditioning mix and mix it together. It would not be perfect, but the pigeons inside would get a better mix of foods and the pigeons outside would get more fuel which they need as we head rapidly down to 0'c? Do you think this would be better than giving them both the seed mix as I do at the moment?
This is probably further off because of cost, but if I could add the wheatgerm oil and vitamin/mineral powder, that would be even better? I have also seen 500ml of aniseed oil for £20 that would be even better if I mixed it into the wheatgerm oil? Here is the link:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aniseed-o...?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Birds&hash=item3ccb511d00

What do you think. I am also concerned with the health of the birds inside that have injuries that they are trying to recover from, which is why I am going so far in trying to find the best balance. If this were just for the outside ferals I would probably use the seed mix with some vitamin/mineral powder, but I want a mix that is good for both. What do you think of my suggestion?

Thanks all,
Brian.

P.s. I have just spotted this ready made mix, which although a bit more expensive, seems to have a lot of what I was thinking of adding? what do you think?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wild-Bird...770&pid=100010&prg=1071&rk=2&sd=261109128448&


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Hmm ok, I have something puzzling to add.
> 
> As it is, my pigeon is pampered. Her diet is flown all the way from PA, USA that cost me about $150 at one go (that could last maybe 8 months?)... it's a perfect mix of:
> 
> ...


I cannot speak for the pigeons but I used to love macas, fried chicken, burgers etc. basically a whole lot of unhealthy stuff that looks yellow and lacks any other colour. I changed about 6 months ago to a proper diet, fruit, veges, grains, nuts etc and a little meat occasionally.

I used to hate the "idea" of that stuff and reach for that big mac instead, So basically I think it comes down to what you know you go for, If the pigeons became acustomed to the nicer foods and recognised the benefits then they would probably swap.

p.s. you are generous indeed sprinkling krikky's prized seeds out to the ferals, What does she think about that aye...... or do you keep that a secret?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I used to put out wild bird seed for native birds , thats how I attracted the feral pigeons. 

The wild bird seed mix I used had a lot of husked wheat in it (it feels sharp on one end) which the pigeons didn't like so much. So it could hang around for days and get soiled and sometimes wet, until some of the birds got hungry enough to eat it. That worried me a lot, seeing them eat the soiled seed. 

They all now eat pigeon seed mix, nothing gets wasted, though there was a small transition before they ate pigeon peas. I am noticing quite a dramatic improvement in their health...for example the sick ones are coming in at a better weight , not so emaciated. Also, I haven't seen much sour crop these past 7 months, whereas I used to see it quite a lot. I'm pulling through almost all of the rescued pigeons these days, I haven't lost anyone in a long time (touch wood). And I think the food has a lot to do with it.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I will buy the pigeon conditioning mix this week and try it out, but I will have to get some bird seed as well because if I put it out for the ferals as well it will not last long. I will try out whats available cheaply, perhaps I can buy 10kg birdseed somewhere for a good price for the ferals.

To jump to another subject while I am here, it looks like the male and female that were born together have started showing mating behaviour to each other? does anyone know if this is a problem with pigeons or can I just leave them to it? They may just be practicing as they are growing up, but I have started to notice the behavior becoming more involved?

Brian.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi Brian,
I think the ebay seeds looks good. I've actually ordered the same vitamins from Foys. It'll arrive in a few days. Once I have it, I could send some your way. In fact, I could also send you a bottle of wheatgerm oil too (it's actually Dr Pigeon's ADE) Because Krikky is _one_ little pigeon, I have enough supply to last 2 years or so, and I would rather use a lot of it to keep it fresh (an excuse to keep buying, lol). So yeah, if you could give me a few weeks, I could mail you both. Oh please don't think it's 'cheap' vitamins! The only reason it's economical is because it's made in bulk and it's FOY's brand - but I trust that brand fully.

And also, I hope you feel better soon. Do take care of yourself too. Rest, drink lots of water and eat_ your_ vitamins! 

Mr 'junk-food' Evan - Krikky knows but she doesn't see it, lol. She doesn't like to share - based on experience - when she was a baby, we let her mingle with the ferals. She reacted aggressively to any that pecked at the scattered seeds. I lecture her all the time about the need to share with those less fortunate. I talk to her - not sure how much she understands, lol...she probably thinks I'm just nagging. But yes, occessionally, I do the entire thing for the ferals - oil coated seeds with Probios, at times with Brewer's Yeast, at times, with vitamins... I try to give the ferals the little bit of luxury that Krikky enjoys. Only because... Krikky was once a baby feral herself. She should never forget her roots!


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants your attitude towards Krikky is exactly the same way I feel about the pigeons inside that are ill and the pigeons outside that are cold and hungry. I show the pigeons inside that the seed they throw over the side, I scoop up and it is eagerly accepted by the poor cold pigeons outside. I also tell off the strong pigeons that have always lived inside with me when they bully the new pigeons. I try to tell them that they are only so strong and healthy because they have not had to go through the things the pigeons outside have had to endure. Like you say, I don't know how much they understand though.
Because of the fact I was once homeless, I know what it is like to be outside and hungry, and I have never forgotten. And the best friends I made were the pigeons that used to come and sit next to me in the hope of getting a little bit of sandwich. They are so individual, people just do not realise. Hence my wish to make efforts to help them in the winter.
I agree the mix on ebay looks good if money is short, but I am also going to try and find a seller of Foy's products in the UK as it would be good if I had a permanent supply of the products I am going to use. I like the look of the wheatgerm oil you use as well with the A-D-E vitamins. I will look for a good supplier in the UK.
I appreciate your offer to post some of what you buy to me in the UK, but the postage from Singapore to UK will be expensive. I'm sure I will find a local supplier, I just need sit down with a cup of tea and scan the internet. I like the idea's you have given me to make what I do give the feral pigeon's really count, thank you.

I will post again when I have found some local suppliers, a lot of the best deals are found by searching well, and maybe getting some hints of other people who care for pigeons in the UK.

Thank you again Miss-Sassypants,
Brian.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

I am glad that you are in agreement about ferals and pets! I think ferals deserve equal love from a pigeon lover like a pigeon owner. 

The shipping cost from SG to LDN won't be that much. If you change your mind, just PM me. The offer still stands, anything to help pigeons around the world!

Good luck & do post the research you've found! Take care of yourself too, alright?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you Miss-Sassypants

I will post the products I find, I'm sure I have definitely seen big pots of vitamin/mineral powder somewhere over here. I'll post other things I find locally to compare them with what you have.

Thank you again,
Brian.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually wild bird seed is not really all that bad. And if you want, you can add things to it to add more variety, protein and fats. Most of these things are what make up wild bird mix. You could also mix it with scratch feed to add other things to it. Some scratch mixes have 3,4,or 5 different seeds in them.
Milo....Protein 11.2%......fat 2.9%.........fiber 2.2%.........carbs 71.2%
Millet, white......Protein 11.7%....fat3.3%.....fiber 8.1%...........carbs 64.2%
Millet, red.....Protein 12.1%......fat 4.1%.........fiber 8.6%......carbs 60.7%
Corn whole or cracked.........Protein 9.4%....fat 3.9%........fiber 2.2%........carbs 68.4%
Sunflower Seed in one oz.........Protein 6g.........fat 14g...........calories 160
They need things like sunflower and corn to add weight for the colder months. 
Like I said, mixing with a good scratch seed, or adding other things to the mix would be good. Or mix half and half with a pigeon mix if you can afford it.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

What you mention about scratch feed is the bit I am concerned about. I have the feeling in this cold weather, I should be giving them more corn like food to eat because of the extra fat/calories(I don't know if you have read the latest in the 'I want to let you know what is happening in London' thread, but it is making me feel I am fighting a loosing battle. I will try to stop those who are suffering for as long as I can though)
The problem with the corn feed is they do not seem as keen on eating it, so although it may fill them better, it tends to get left until they are hungry enough to eat it, and that can cause me problems.
I am about to make my purchase for the next two weeks, I am going to buy my normal mixed seed because it is such good value. I am thinking maybe my best bet would be to buy two sacks of the seed mix and give them more which they eat fast. I will look around at what else I might be available, but I do not want to delay the order too long because I am running out of food. With my limited income, I am usually only just making it to the next order.

Thanks for looking up the data Jay3, I must say I am also tempted by the mix on ebay:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wild-Bird...770&pid=100010&prg=1071&rk=2&sd=261109128448&

I feel the aniseed and soya oil adds to the value of the food to them, and I am looking at my budget now to see if I could double that order!!!!

Brian.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Odd that they don't like corn. I mean my spoiled birds don't like the large corn, but they like the large cracked corn. Even the ferals here like it. Not so much the fine cracked corn though. Too small. But when the weather gets cold, they usually like corn. They need it to put the weight on.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I agree with Jay3 corn is usually the first to go in my food dish. Mine like all size of corn. I have been adding a little extra for that winter warmth. LOL


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

I give my doves more hardboiled eggs in the winter months.Our winters to not get as cold as yours.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I will try different forms of corn again, it was a while ago since I last tried it with them. It may be the problem that I mentioned before, that in London they just do not get to see corn, so many of them may never have seen corn in their lives. I can get corn for as little as £9 for 20kg bag, and if I could arrange transport I could buy several bags at once rather than almost double the cost with the delivery charge.
Before I do anything though, I will by some popcorn and try it out on them. They sell reasonably big bags of popcorn in the supermarkets and it is quite cheap.
Whilst talking about supermarkets, they also sell large bags of rice very cheap. I have been told that you can feed pigeons rice, although I doubt the value of white rice. What about brown rice if I could find big cheap bags of it?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Brown rice could be added to a mix, but not so nutritious that you would want to feed all rice.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

*What's healthier to feed feral pigeons?*

What good suggestions by all! I also add Omega 3 6 9 into my bucket of seed, 1/2 cup to 21 cups of variety hen scratch which I get at a feed lot, as well as Flax Seed Oil. I am fortunate enough to get this very cheaply from a lower income food supplier. BHenderson, you are something else (THIS SIDE of wonderful) how much empathy you have for things around you. There is nothing like having been through "the school of hard knocks" to gain that precious gift. There are many like you on this site and it makes me feel proud to know you and be part of the association of caring people(s) posting and working together toward helping our ferals on Pigeon-Talk.org. This site is so great to be a part of lol.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I am also proud to know the people (including yourself!) who try so hard to help our pigeon friends. I just wish there was more we could do to stop local authorities who seem to act like little Hitlers when it comes to pigeons.


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## donn (Nov 2, 2014)

Morning Everyone...So...we are chatting ferals and foodstuff... I too adore ferals.I live in Cape Town , South Africa and the feral population here in my area (Helderberg) is not so dense as in the suburbs.Ferals live on almost anything that is eatable(look like it) but I wish to know... what "balanced diet"do a feral get out of breadcrumbs, fries and snails?


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## donn (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi there,Brian...here in my area authorities is not much bothered by roaming wild pigeons. I only know of one situation where a certain company in Cape Town wished to eradicated the ferals from their roof... they used silicone to put on the roofcutters and it so happened that many pigeons got stuck in the stuff and was caught in that way. He brought me a baby one day and i have tried to wash off the silicone,but not really got the bird (almost white) entirely clean... but i have raised him properly after that...I loved that bird,but i have let him to fly off to fend for himself...his name was in afikaans..."Die silicone duif" lol


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## lg5555 (Aug 2, 2013)

*cheap feed*

How about dog meal/kibble for small dogs as a food for ferals? Many types of kibble contain corn and grains as well as a meat of some type. Ive mixed in some with wild bird seed, peas, barley and peanuts when i had pet pigeons years ago.


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## pigeon protector (Nov 8, 2013)

I feed the ferals a mix of wild bird seed and pigeon mix that I also occasionally add other seeds/pulses too.
I know it can work out expensive but if you have time and energy to look around you can get some good deals.
My local pet shop sells pigeon mix 2.5kg for £2 a bag and same for wild bird seed, that's only £8.00 for 10kg of good stuff.
The pigeon mix has lots of different types of peas,corn and wheat .
Iceland have started selling wild bird seed 1.25kg for £1.00 and its good stuff includes peanuts!
Used to buy seed from Poundland but their big bag 1.5kg is packed with husks that my ferals leave,I suppose I have spoit them! but Poundland do sometimes have black Sunflower seeds £1.00 for a bag 750g.
For free food,they love the berries from the laurel tree which the wood pigeons eat.
The wood pigeons can easily sit in a tree with their small adapted legs and munch away,my ferals sometimes watch them and then try and do the same.
There are only a few times I have seen the ferals do this as they are not to keen on trees as we all know.
If you find a low tree you can pull some berries off and give it to the ferals or whack the branches so the seed fall down,not near roads though.
Sometimes I go to my local Morrisons to see if there is any reduced brown bread and on the way I pass a very low Laurel tree that has branches you can reach.I fill up a big bag of berries and give them to the ferals in the morning,they love them,be good to find out what other free growing food they can eat.
I think its a good idea to not get them totally dependent on just seed otherwise they will not know what to eat if there was no seed for them oneday.
I always feed them the two mix bags and then throw something different out.
Other food which I sometimes feed the ferals -
Good quality Brown bread( when you can get it reduced ) Green Lentils,pearl barley,brown rice,cracked wheat,popping corn and loads more I could mention including some vegetables,Peas,carrot (chopped up small ),Green beans,kale ( chopped up very small) 
I have a fruit and veg stall near where I live and I always see a few pigeons picking away,mainly at the greens.
Have been feeding my local flocks for a long time and I try and give them the best that I can.I know I have become obsessed with the food thing and pigeons of course but I can live with that,lol.
Sometimes have a walk around central London with a big backpack of seed and discreetly chuck seed to to all the street pigeons I meet,they all look in such a bad way.Rescued many pigeons from central London,so many with feet damage (string) and so many Mycoplasma and other stuff wrong with them.I wish I could help them all but they have so much going against them,if its not,cars , predetors,sickness and of course man!
We need a secret feed the feral day!
They are such amazing birds,and we are so lucky to live and share this world with them they should be treated with respect.
I rescue a lot of pigeons and so many of my rescues are very skinny with breast bone protruding and unable to fly,so before any one starts with the you shouldn't be feeding feral pigeons ,Here in London the pigeons are well undernourished and need our help.It may be different where you live but here in the uk and London they need all the help and food they can get.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

The proper diet for a Feral is the same as any other Pigeon. in the winter LOTS of corn and or safflower. Ferals and our loft birds are the exact same Bird....


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## dove2 (Nov 27, 2014)

*Vitamin Powder*

B Henderson you can get big pots of Beaphar Vionate Vit powder 500g from Pets At Home, order online and pick up in store for free. Can be used for birds.


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Do you feed more whole corn or more cracked corn in the mix? I mix pellets with mix pigeon feed and extra corn.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I feed more whole corn and safflower in the winter, pellets are great but not relished by the Birds. I truly believe in a wide variety of different seeds, pellets and of course a varied GRIT/Oyster shell mix.
I change what I give my flock over the course of the year.
In Nature feed is seasonal for a wild "Rock dove" sometimes they eat one type of feed for weeks, if that is what is available.(grasses, and Grains mature at different times of the year.)
A variety of feeds keep Pigeons looking for their favorite tidbit, and also makes them eat seeds, and grains that are nutritious, but do not favor much.
Believe it or not whole grain bread is just fine as long as it is not moldy, and they are adapted to it. Gee what is bread made from? Wheat, oats, rye, Ect.,
all mature grains when harvested.
I have hand fed MANY Squeeks on whole Grain and Rye bread.
A feral/wild pigeon needs just what a domestic/ Tame Pigeon requires.
P. S. Wild bird mix, even the cheapest available, is just fine as pigeon feed,(they do need to get used to it) just make sure it is not real old and stale. it has a variety of seed and grains.
I used it on my flying teams this summer, and was impressed, works much much better than barley 
and Oiler sunflower(small, and dark) is a very much underused feed for Pigeons It can really get them in the air!
Sunflower is very natural for pigeons/Doves


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