# Baytril (Enrofloxacin) and Calcium - a good combination?



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I just did a quick check on google to see if the effectiveness of baytril is inhibited by calcium as I am delivering both to a baby bird rescuer.

There was nothing at all about calcium on the Baytril site but I was surprised to find a reference to the effect that administering calcium gluconate to broilers 2 hours before Baytril makes the antibacterial activity more pronounced.

http://www.animalhealth.bayerhealthcare.com/426.0.html?&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=374&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=425&cHash=81b301c12e

However, giving calcium less than two hours before or after enrofloxacin hads the reverse effect.

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, 

When Henny was sick, I was discussing the use of Baytril and calcium at the same time. Pidgey and Fp both said that they didn't suggest they be used at the same time. I can't seem to find the links that either provided though or their specific posts.

I had never heard of this either up until that point and there seems to be very little information on the internet about this.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Well, this information is on the Bayer site itself, so I guess they are a trustworthy source of information.

I found the bit about not giving within two hours of dairy products on another internet site. I will see if I can find out where Pidgey and fp got their information.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hmm, that's interesting.
So we can give Baytril morning and evening and calcium sometime during the day?

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> So we can give Baytril morning and evening and calcium sometime during the day?


They have also recently discovered that Baytril is just as effective if given in one daily dose, which is less stressful to the animal (Point 9 at this link which is the Baytril site):

http://www.baytril.com/29/General_Considerations.htm

If you click on the dosing recommendations for pigeons on the right hand side of the page at this link it recommends a daily dose for pigeons:

http://www.baytril.com/15/Other_Animals.htm

My understanding was that to enhance the antibacterial action the baytril was to be given 2 hours after the calcium glucanate, but you are better at interpreting this information than I am, Reti.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, this is good information. We used to give Baytril 2 x day but are now doing it 1 x day. Our vet seems to like the 1 x day better. I have never given calcium with the Baytril but will do some checking in my notes.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cynthia,

Yes, this important information, especially the once a day dosing is very good to know.

Ron


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*From the horse's mouth, so to speak!*

I wrote to Bayer in the UK , explained that I had read a lot of conflicting information about calcium and Baytril and asked for clarification.

This was their reply:

_Dear Ms Roberts,

There is no need to withhold calcium grit while using Baytril. The reason there
are conflicting reports around is that *it may be true that calcium supplements
added to water may decrease the absorption of Baytril. This applies to in water
calcium supplementation and not to grit.*

There is no data to suggest that the administration of calcium gloconate two
hours before Baytril will enhance the antibacterial action of the antibiotic.
However as per the information detailed above if it is administered in the water
with Baytril it could reduce absorption.

Yours sincerely

Bayer Animal Health
Bayer House
Strawberry Hill
Newbury
Berkshire
RG14 1JA_




So there we have it...I think....


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Calcium found in its natural state*

Hi Cynthia,

That certainly sheds alot of light on the whole subject. Did Bayer test Baytril to make certain it's effectiveness is not hindered by grit, or possibly any other source of calcium found in its natural state? 

If the grit doesn't hurt Baytrils effectiveness, I'm wondering then if calcium/phosporus, in its natural state, (in their food) would also not cause any problem either, because pigeon peas are very high in calcium/phosphorus????  

I will flag this whole thread.

Thank you for all your investigative work.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Cynthia....I think we all needed some clarification on this matter. Since you got answers from the source, I feel they are a little more clear than they were before


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am still uncertain whether calcium glucinate can be given straight into the beak during a course of Baytril, not to enhance the antibacterial properties but to tackle calcium deficiency. I will have to do a follow up enquiry!

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Dosage Question*

If you change to once a day are you doubling the dose? It would seem to me that you would need to in order to get the necessary amount of the drug into the system.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The recommended oral dose for pigeons is 10-20 mg per kilo every 24 hours, which isn't a double dose.

I think I once published a loink to why a single daily dose was recommended, I will follow that up.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Here it is, it would appear to agree with what you said, Terry:

_Recent findings suggest that it is the total dose of enrofloxacin and not the dosing frequency that is significant in determining drug efficacy and therapeutic success (4). It has been concluded that Baytril, like other fluoroquinolones, exhibits concentration-dependent killing activity against Gram-negative and Gram-positive pathogens relevant for small animal practice (4), (5). Maintaining sufficient drug concentrations above the MIC of the pathogen during the entire treatment interval, which is necessary for anti-infectives with time-dependent antibacterial activity (beta-lactams), is of minor importance for the fluoroquinolones (4). Goal of Baytril therapy therefore should be to maximise plasma peak concentrations (Cmax). This can only be achieved when the total daily dose is administered in one single application daily. Additionally, once daily application increases convenience of treatment and therapeutic owner and patient compliance._

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for posting that info, Cynthia. I'm still confused, however. I have always (and perhaps erroneously so) given Baytril to birds with a dosage of 15 mg per kg of weight twice daily OR doubled the amount of the drug if only giving it once per day .. ie. if based upon the weight of the bird it needed 0.25 cc/ml of a Baytril solution or the liquid Baytril to get 15 mg per kg of the drug, I would give 0.25 cc/ml twice per day or 0.50 cc/ml once per day. 

I just checked a couple of things on the Bayer site and am now even more confused. I'll do some more looking, but if you or any of the members know the definitive answer, please post.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Terry,

The dosage rate of Baytril is something that keeps coming up, I remember my vet prescribing it at 5 mg per kilo which is when I tracked down the Baytril site.

I don't have a formulary, but if you have one maybe that will clarify whether 10-20mg per kilo was the daily total to be given as a divided dose, or whether it was a single dose to be given BID.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, just want to mention that I took our cockatiel to the vet today and remembered to ask the vet if she saw any problem with giving calcium along with Baytril. She said no but not to give them together - wait about 2 hours inbetween.

I have the formulary somewhere for Baytril but it is in hiding right now. Will post it when I find it.


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