# This Is The Last One (Loft)



## Wingsonfire

I might as well get going on the last one guys and gals


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## GEMcC5150

I with you I will start my new and last loft the begaining of March and hope to have bird in by mid June. This one is bigger and will go a little slower. Good luck Let see a drawing of what you have in mind.


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## Wingsonfire

I am not good on drawing things out but I am planning on making it pretty much like my first one, I still have a few pieces of bar grating left that I will use for the floor like I did on my other one.


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## hillfamilyloft

what will this new loft be? A breeding loft, race loft? I would just make a twin of the one you have it is very nice.


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## MaryOfExeter

I agree with Randy, it's great!
We're in the process of building a breeding loft


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## Wingsonfire

I am thinking to use this new one for flying young birds out of, the one in the picture is 6.5 X 16 and is divided into 2 sections and I do have my breeding pens also. So, I am kicking around the idea of just making this on 6.5 X 10 or 12 ft with one section? Give it too me I can take it


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## Wingsonfire

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree with Randy, it's great!
> We're in the process of building a breeding loft


You guys need to make a Breeding Loft thread, I bet it is going to be nice..


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## kbraden

I think you just need to hop a plane and come visit me, oh and bring your woodworking tools & skills with you. I have beer


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## hillfamilyloft

I would make a flexible removable partition with a sliding door. That way you would have flexibility. So for now I would build it as one section with the option of adding a partition later.


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## Wingsonfire

kbraden said:


> I think you just need to hop a plane and come visit me, oh and bring your woodworking tools & skills with you. I have beer


I am sure that ur better half would love that


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## Pigeonfan94

Hey just wanted to tell you I LOVE the name "Wings on Fire Loft"


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## Thunderbird Racing

Great!! I love watching you guys build stuff....

I have remodeled my new loft 100 times already, and haven't driven a single nail yet.


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## Wingsonfire

Pigeonfan94 said:


> Hey just wanted to tell you I LOVE the name "Wings on Fire Loft"


Thanks, I am not very creative when it comes to things like that, as a matter of fact I am not very creative at all lol.


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## hillfamilyloft

Also with my 7 x 12 loft it becomes a chore when I am catching birds during daylight. If you had a sliding door you could close off, it would make catching birds easier. Assuming they do not basket themselves like the Disney birds do. Also young birds at different ages might need to be sectioned off for a while. Training of two different age teams could work if you have a partition. Could also give you another early breeding section or hen section during the off season. Sick bay etc. 6.5 is a good width, my 7' is too wide. 
What are you going with as far as traps? One, two, Drop, bobs, sputnick?


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## Matt Bell

Well I met Mike this past Saturday, has a great loft and made the decision on where to put the new one, lol. Also those breeding pens he has are top notch. Nice birds too, all the way around it looks great!


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## Wingsonfire

Matt Bell said:


> Well I met Mike this past Saturday, has a great loft and made the decision on where to put the new one, lol. Also those breeding pens he has are top notch. Nice birds too, all the way around it looks great!


Enjoyed having you over Matt, I had a great time, you are welcomed here anytime my friend.......


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## Shadybug Lofts

Wingsonfire, you never did answer my question, how are you going to clean and disinfect the waterers each day, when there fastened to a water line. Just curious


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Wingsonfire, you never did answer my question, how are you going to clean and disinfect the waterers each day, when there fastened to a water line. Just curious


I clean them once a year if need be


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## Shadybug Lofts

What do you do overflow them every day.


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> What do you do overflow them every day.


Every other day and drain the bucket also, if you look at my pic you can see that I have the water tubes at 3 foot or so so I can take them out and clean them without dissembling the system.


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## Wingsonfire

OK, I finally got started on it. I used treated lumber for the base, 2X8's around the perimeter and 2x6's for the joists and my bar grating for the floor. One tip on using treated lumber, when you purchase it and its straight use it as soon as possible or it wont be straight in a few days, when it drys out it will warp like crazy, one more thing if you can get a framing gun, and a electric miter saw it sure makes the job go mucho faster.... I think its right at 6.5x 12 Now for the walls


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## loonecho

Looks like a nice start. I understand the reason for the grated floor. Just wondering, what becomes of the the manure that falls throught the grates? Does it just build up indefintely? Seems like that would be an attraction for vermin/neighborhood dogs. In the short term it is probably fine but what about in 5 or 10 years?

Grated floors aren't a good option for me here in northern Minnesota. When it is 20 to 30 degrees below zero, I'm looking for ways to keep the drafts down and keep the birds a little more comfortable. 

Loonecho


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## Wingsonfire

loonecho said:


> Looks like a nice start. I understand the reason for the grated floor. Just wondering, what becomes of the the manure that falls throught the grates? Does it just build up indefintely? Seems like that would be an attraction for vermin/neighborhood dogs. In the short term it is probably fine but what about in 5 or 10 years?
> 
> Grated floors aren't a good option for me here in northern Minnesota. When it is 20 to 30 degrees below zero, I'm looking for ways to keep the drafts down and keep the birds a little more comfortable.
> 
> Loonecho


I have a landscaping rake that I use to get the dropping out from under my other one, works great..


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## g0ldenb0y55

Wow, another one! Way to go! Very nice start.


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## billyr70

Looking great so far. Where did you get that grate flooring and how much did it cost?

Billy


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## JRNY

Im already jealous and you only have the floor. Cant wait to see more pics.


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## hillfamilyloft

Love the floor. I have my pairings all on eggs now. You will have a six pack coming. They will look good in that loft. I will send you the pairings so you can choose your six.


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## kbraden

Wingsonfire said:


> I am sure that ur better half would love that


If it saves him from building stuff for me, then he will be all for it ! LOL


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## Wingsonfire

kbraden said:


> If it saves him from building stuff for me, then he will be all for it ! LOL


I am laughing too much


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## Wingsonfire

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Wow, another one! Way to go! Very nice start.


Thanks Henry...


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## Wingsonfire

billyr70 said:


> Looking great so far. Where did you get that grate flooring and how much did it cost?
> 
> Billy


I got the grating off of Craigslist at a $1.00 a sq ft , I purchased a lot of it and sold it for 3 bucks a square foot to help pay for my first loft. It sells new for around 20 a square ft new so it aint cheap for sure. The opening is 3/8 x 1 inch and being galvanized it is pretty nice for what I am using it for.. I would have paid 5 bucks a foot to get it.


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## Wingsonfire

hillfamilyloft said:


> Love the floor. I have my pairings all on eggs now. You will have a six pack coming. They will look good in that loft. I will send you the pairings so you can choose your six.


Thanks Randy, hope I have it finished by then


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## Wingsonfire

Got a little bit done today, for some reason I just could not get going?? Had one 2 by that was cracked almost through and had to splice it, after that I got POed at myself for not seeing it before I put it up and stopped for the day


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## Pip Logan

Well it looks good buddy!


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## boobooo96

Hi Wingsonfire

I know that feeling its discouraging when the lumber you select turns out bad. I too had stop to take a breather. Love the floor keep at it nice job. I am also considering building a breeding loft on top of the roof of my other property in NY. Keep posting pictures love new ideas. Talking about ideas I need young & hen bird perches plans. Thanks


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## Msfreebird

Wingsonfire said:


> Got a little bit done today, for some reason I just could not get going?? Had one 2 by that was cracked almost through and had to splice it, after that I got POed at myself for not seeing it before I put it up and stopped for the day


Looks great! I love pictures like this. I have to build a new loft and I have no building experience........so I look at pictures like this.....and I can build 
Thank you


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## Wingsonfire

Msfreebird said:


> Looks great! I love pictures like this. I have to build a new loft and I have no building experience........so I look at pictures like this.....and I can build
> Thank you


Heck, I aint no mental genius for sure, if I can build one anyone can 

I did get the walls framed and the top plates installed, that's enough for the day......


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## Shadybug Lofts

Looks great, looks like you build like me, to last. I would move the blocks in even with the 2x6s so your not tripping over them when you walk around the loft. I would look better too. Just an observation. Nice strong corners.


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## Wayne Johnson

Another reason to move the block in is to minimize the rain water that will seep under the wood foundation and cause rotting.


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Looks great, looks like you build like me, to last. I would move the blocks in even with the 2x6s so your not tripping over them when you walk around the loft. I would look better too. Just an observation. Nice strong corners.


I wanted them in the center to equalize the load on them, they are 2x8's treated ?


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## Shadybug Lofts

I hope your going to use something better than osb for the outside.


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## hillfamilyloft

The 1/2 osb and 1/2 siding stuff works well.


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## Wingsonfire

Got my trusses all built up for the most part, just need to make up some gussets and will put them up Saturday


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## billyr70

Very nice job, the best ive seen...


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## Shadybug Lofts

You don't need any gussets on those monsters LOL, just a plywood plate across the top will work.


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> You don't need any gussets on those monsters LOL, just a plywood plate across the top will work.


That is what I am going to do, plywood plates on both sides, I call them gussets  They have to be 2x6's as they are extending 30 inches out, 2x4's would not work going that far out.


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## Wingsonfire

billyr70 said:


> Very nice job, the best ive seen...


Thanks Billy


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## Matt Bell

Hey Mike, I am thinking about swinging by Saturday and lending a hand, can you use some help?


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## Wingsonfire

Matt Bell said:


> Hey Mike, I am thinking about swinging by Saturday and lending a hand, can you use some help?


Sure, stop on by Matt, I should be working on it most of the day....


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## Wingsonfire

Got some more done today, I think I did a lot but I am sure that someone that knew what they were really doing would have got a lot more done  I can tell you that my new used coil siding/sheathing gun worked great and saved me mucho time on the roof decking, air nailers are great. I am sorta thinking that most of the hard stuff is about finished ?


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## Shadybug Lofts

Be careful, my son shot one of those through his finger, he was holding a board that he was nailing, and the nail went through the board, and his finger. "ouch"


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## Jeff Ward

The loft looks wonderful, something to be very proud of for sure. Keep the updated pics coming.... Cheers, Jeff.


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Be careful, my son shot one of those through his finger, he was holding a board that he was nailing, and the nail went through the board, and his finger. "ouch"


I hear you on the nail thing, don't drink and drive nails


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## Wingsonfire

Jeff Ward said:


> The loft looks wonderful, something to be very proud of for sure. Keep the updated pics coming.... Cheers, Jeff.


Thanks Jeff, its not anything special for sure but I do think that it will fit my needs, me thinks I will put up the slats tomorrow for the ceiling and do a few internal walls with plywood  Looking at it I think have done pretty good for 2 weeks worth of work after tomorrow....


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## Msfreebird

Nice pictures....Loft looks great! Thank you


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## zugbug13

Nice job. Your loft is coming along nicely. Regards, charlie


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## Wayne Johnson

I really like the design. You even did the corners right so it could be dry walled if needed in the future. It adds to the look of your property. So many i see on here would turn borderine fanciers away. I have seen stuff that looked like the dumpster missed it. If you live in the country, like me, it would be ok but in a neighborhood looking nice is very important. I like the way you built it too. In the future you could get a wrecker truck to pull it up on the trailer and move it to where ever you want. Great build.
When I build mine I am ging to start with two 4x4 rails that suppor the floor. then build the joists and actual floor on top. This makes it much easier to pull up on a truck or accross the yard.


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## Wingsonfire

Wayne Johnson said:


> I really like the design. You even did the corners right so it could be dry walled if needed in the future. It adds to the look of your property. So many i see on here would turn borderine fanciers away. I have seen stuff that looked like the dumpster missed it. If you live in the country, like me, it would be ok but in a neighborhood looking nice is very important. I like the way you built it too. In the future you could get a wrecker truck to pull it up on the trailer and move it to where ever you want. Great build.
> When I build mine I am ging to start with two 4x4 rails that suppor the floor. then build the joists and actual floor on top. This makes it much easier to pull up on a truck or accross the yard.


Thanks Wayne  I did not get as much done today as I was thinking I was. I got tired and decided to take a break, oh well tomorrow is another day..


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## Matt Bell

Mike, its looking really good!


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## The_Dirteeone

Can anyone tell me where to get floor grating like the one in this loft.


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## Wingsonfire

Matt Bell said:


> Mike, its looking really good!


Thanks Matt, its getting there


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## Wingsonfire

The_Dirteeone said:


> Can anyone tell me where to get floor grating like the one in this loft.


You may try some metal scrape yards or craigslist as this grating that I have is over 20.00 a square ft new


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## Wingsonfire

zugbug13 said:


> Nice job. Your loft is coming along nicely. Regards, charlie


Thanks Charlie


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## swagg

Wingsonfire said:


> I can tell you that my new used coil siding/sheathing gun worked great and saved me mucho time on the roof decking, air nailers are great.


Yes air nailers are great  Wait till you get into the cordless ones, you will really fall in love


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## Wingsonfire

swagg said:


> Yes air nailers are great  Wait till you get into the cordless ones, you will really fall in love


Don't know if I will ever get any cordless ones, I am just a weekend type of wood hacker  I did get up a few sheets of siding. One tip if you look at the end I nailed a few pieces of 2 x 4's to support the siding, it sure helps when you are working alone..


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## Shadybug Lofts

Wingsonfire said:


> Don't know if I will ever get any cordless ones, I am just a weekend type of wood hacker  I did get up a few sheets of siding. One tip if you look at the end I nailed a few pieces of 2 x 4's to support the siding, it sure helps when you are working alone..
> 
> I did that same thing to hold my siding, I did my loft without any help through the whole project.


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## Wingsonfire

Got a few more pieces of the inside walled up and finished the ceiling for the most part. One suggestion if anyone is going to try a slat ceiling, use 1x2's I was going to use 1x3's but if they are warped or bent etc. they are hard to bend where as the 1x2's are much easier to work with. I didn't really pick through them to look for the straight ones. Hey, the wife looked at and said pretty good honey


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## Matt Bell

Great tip on the 2X4's to hold the siding...wished I would have thought of that way back when I was building my coops.


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## Wingsonfire

Put the windows installed and got the drop traps roughed in today, man I was looking at the picture and that end stud sure looked bowed  went out and measured it and its a 1/4 off in the center lol lol, it sure looked worse than that,,, oh well I aint perfect......


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## Shadybug Lofts

Most pic look distorted for some reason, a lot of mine look bowed in the pic but are perfectly straight.


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## newtopidgeons

Very nice work, I wouldnt worrie if there was a bow. Or atleast Like I told my wife, I just hope mine doesnt fall. Other than that I can live with it.


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## swagg

Looking good. Just take a hammer and whack the top and bottom of that stud over. Your not going to be splitting any sheating on that stud anyways  Nice work though....


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## Shadybug Lofts

It looks like your floors sagging and your cap is raised up and your studs are bowed. LOL


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## Wingsonfire

It does look like that don't it lol lol


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## Msfreebird

Looks GREAT!.....3 questions-
What is the purpose of the slat ceiling? Ventilation?
How do you stop mice from coming up thru the grated floor? And how do you clean UNDER the loft? I always have problems with 'things' going under the loft, so I've kept a solid floor (but that looks so much better for cleaning), and I had to put 1/4" hardware cloth in the ground of my flight cage. 
AND.....Do you deliver? LOL I love the style!


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## zugbug13

Coming along nicely. 1x2's add a nice touch to the ceiling. Best Regards, charlie


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## Wingsonfire

Msfreebird said:


> Looks GREAT!.....3 questions-
> What is the purpose of the slat ceiling? Ventilation?
> How do you stop mice from coming up thru the grated floor? And how do you clean UNDER the loft? I always have problems with 'things' going under the loft, so I've kept a solid floor (but that looks so much better for cleaning), and I had to put 1/4" hardware cloth in the ground of my flight cage.
> AND.....Do you deliver? LOL I love the style!


Thanks Msfreebird, the slats serve two purposes, ventilation and it keeps the birds from roosting in the rafters. To clean under the loft I have a landscape rake that I use every so often. As far as mice, the opening in the grates are 3/8 X1" I have not had any problems so far with mice or rats in the other one to date, that's not that I will not in the future???? Did a little bit more today, put up the rest of the plywood inside. I have a router and a edge bit that I used to cut out the plywood around the windows and drop traps. It took 3 or 4 minutes to cut them out and they came out dang near perfectly flush, time to feed the birds and get ready to go to work....


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## NayNay

I like how the birds get a nice view of the pool. Like a pigeon resort!


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## Wingsonfire

Shingles are installed with a ridge vent  Is it beer:30 yet?


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## Goingatitagain

Beautiful job on your new loft. Looking forward to seeing the birds in it !!

Quick question, the grate floors, are the anchored down or just laid in.


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## Wingsonfire

Goingatitagain said:


> Beautiful job on your new loft. Looking forward to seeing the birds in it !!
> 
> Quick question, the grate floors, are the anchored down or just laid in.


Thanks, they are just laid in there, they weigh about 175 lbs for the 3x10's.. Put up some more siding today, still need the end top on the other side and I will be finished what that  I have about ran out of steam for today, hey wait I still need to get the riding mower out and bag some leaves and clean up my loft building mess


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## Greek Boy

Excellent job with your design. You now have 3 lofts facing three different positions. 2 racing and 1 for breeders. I wonder if that will make much difference in your preformance in the races. Only time will tell at the end of the season. Hoping all the best for you and yours.... Nick


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Excellent job with your design. You now have 3 lofts facing three different positions. 2 racing and 1 for breeders. I wonder if that will make much difference in your preformance in the races. Only time will tell at the end of the season. Hoping all the best for you and yours.... Nick


It is just a hobby for me for the most part


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## Wingsonfire

More slats


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## g0ldenb0y55

Very nice progress my friend!


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## JT

Looking good!


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## Wingsonfire

Thanks guys for the kind comments, I have made a few mistakes, not major like I did on the first one  I hope my loft build will give someone a few ideas on theirs..


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## Greek Boy

Your loft is coming out great. Like your ventilation ideas. Keep up the good work. I see your breeders are well on their way in the backround. The entire set up looks great. All the best. Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Your loft is coming out great. Like your ventilation ideas. Keep up the good work. I see your breeders are well on their way in the backround. The entire set up looks great. All the best. Nick..


Thanks Nick, just a note:spent almost a year in Greece a few years back, loved it .........Ventilation is very important and I am trying to do the best I can to help the birds out in that regard..


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## newtopidgeons

great job...


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## billyr70

Now thats one SWEET looking loft.  Keep it up.


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## Wingsonfire

Did not do a lot today but I dd manage to rough in a drop trap.


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## Thunderbird Racing

You are doing a fine job!!


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## NayNay

It's all so awesome- and extra cool cuz you are doing the work yourself.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I couldn't agree more about ventilation. To me it's one of the most important things you can do for your pigeons. It makes all the difference in their health and helps get them in form. A question if I may? Why is everyone so into "V" perches? I have found the birds are harder to pick up. They seem to have an easy escape route as opposed to box perches where there is hardly any chance to get away. I always found the birds more at ease when in their own box. I needed the birds to be tame and easily picked up to check feathers, weight, and form during training. I found it much simpler to accomplish this with box perches. Of course handling them from birth on is how you start getting them use to being picked up and handled. Anyway just a thought. All the best...Nick.


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## JT

Thumbs up on the drop


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## Wingsonfire

Man what a pain lol lol got one drop trap finished and I am really happy it turned out as nice as it did. One more to go


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## g0ldenb0y55

Trap looks good, Almost there!


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## newtopidgeons

Did you make the drop trap were you can take the antenna out on purpose? seems like thats what you did. Is that to just keep poop off? Or whats the advantage of being able to take the antenna out? And last why wouldnt you put it right outside instead of inside? My friend told me if the birds dont have to drop down or fly through the trap, he may stand in the way and block the next birds trying to come in. ??? Help me out, I never raced before..
Thanks


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## steveeman

ur loft looks great Michael, i hope the birds like it.
If i have time i will stop by u house


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## NayNay

It's gorgeous, and you rock. And now- newbie question time- I thought they needed a landing board outside the trap? Is that just further down on you build list? Or was I mistaken?


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## sport14692

I'm liking the looks of your loft alot !!!


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## billyr70

Fantastic workman ship.


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## GEMcC5150

I don't understand your trap. It look to me like the bird coulu fly up and land in the base and just walk out? I understood the idea od a drop trap was so that the bird would drop down into the loft and then not be bale to fly up and out. That how my trap works I sure you work it out but I don't see it in the pic.


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## billyr70

GEMcC5150 said:


> I don't understand your trap. It look to me like the bird coulu fly up and land in the base and just walk out? I understood the idea od a drop trap was so that the bird would drop down into the loft and then not be bale to fly up and out. That how my trap works I sure you work it out but I don't see it in the pic.


His trap is off the floor. They cant fly up and land on it cause there wings would hit the sides. It should work fine. I think they need a landing board on the outside to land on and then walk in and drop down in the loft. It looks like it will work out great to me.


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## Shadybug Lofts

I'm sorry to say your trap will never work. Here's why, the birds will land on the top of the boards and drop right into the trap and out they go. Sorry, it looks nice but i think you will agree with me. Cut the bottom back to the wall and it should work. Gary


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## billyr70

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I'm sorry to say your trap will never work. Here's why, the birds will land on the top of the boards and drop right into the trap and out they go. Sorry, it looks nice but i think you will agree with me. Cut the bottom back to the wall and it should work. Gary


Never say never, Looking at the pics again, i think it will work. I think the angle of the drop wont allow them to drop straight down and back out backwards. If the bottom board was out more they probably could drop down and put themselves in reverse to escape. Removing the bottom board will work
for sure though.


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## Shadybug Lofts

I think the top board is back farther than the bottom, and i think they could enter easily. I think the bottom is the clock or something. If you brought the top out to the end, it would work. There is enough room for them to stand on the boards facing the wall and drop in and walk straight out, no need to back out.


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## GEMcC5150

Wingsonfire said:


> Man what a pain lol lol got one drop trap finished and I am really happy it turned out as nice as it did. One more to go


Lookin at how thiis set I know by birds would fly up land on top or the side drop down into the shoot and walk out. But that may just my birds I would put a pice of ply on the blance ot the top and on the top angle cut. but again that just me and your right you need a landing board out side but that go with out saying.


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## Shadybug Lofts

Any bird would walk right out of there.


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## billyr70

JUST TRAIN THEM NOT TO FLY OUT THE TRAP. If you pick your birds up and whisper in there ear, DON'T FLY AWAY, then the trap will WORK just fine... Its all about the training.


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## GEMcC5150

billyr70 said:


> JUST TRAIN THEM NOT TO FLY OUT THE TRAP. If you pick your birds up and whisper in there ear, DON'T FLY AWAY, then the trap will WORK just fine... Its all about the training.


Ya that will work. Hola Mr. Bird Whisperer


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## Thunderbird Racing

looks to me what, you guys are calling the "bottom board" is an antenna, and is removable. maybe Mike is only going to put it in place on race day, when he is around the loft. Looks like it will work just fine to me...


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## Shadybug Lofts

Your right its slotted, to pull it out, It will work fine with that removed.


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## rpalmer

What I would do with your wonderful entrance is to add some bobs to it. That will keep in coming birds incoming and not allow the ones inside to leave. 

And with your wood working skills I would also add a landing "board" for each opening that will support the weight of the bird but if anything heavier gets on it, it will fall even with the siding and because it extends into your trap, closes the opening (think extreme teeter totter). I think it is referred to as a Scottish trap. Take care and have fun. -- You can do my carpentry any day.


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## billyr70

Thunderbird Racing said:


> looks to me what, you guys are calling the "bottom board" is an antenna, and is removable. maybe Mike is only going to put it in place on race day, when he is around the loft. Looks like it will work just fine to me...


I agree, looks like it will be fine.


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## Wingsonfire

Man, glad to see all the posts on my drop traps . I am going to add a landing board to the outside of it after I get my aviary's framed in, the bottom of them will be close to the bottom of the entrances so I need to wait on that. Those are antenna pads on the bottom that can slide in and out and I was planning on putting them in on race day and pulling them out after the birds clocked? Now if they were left in a bird might be able to get on the top and drop down and get out..... The bob thing is something I was looking at yesterday after I got the one trap in and if I did install a few bobs placing the rod in the right place would keep birds from being able to drop down on the antenna pad also.. Anyway that's my story and I am sticking to it


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## billyr70

LOL, i think everything looks fantastic. Keep posting your pics, i think you have the best trap ive seen on here.


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## RodSD

That drop trap might not work. I built one like that before and the smartest, most dedicated bird will try to find a way out. The bird shoot like a bullet folding its wing and goes in. If I had not seen it myself I would not have believe it. But, then, most birds can't figure it out. They will fly and wont close their wings so they fall down when their feet can't grab something.(I had a cover on top of the drop trap so they can't just drop from it unlike yours).


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

I would forget the barbs, They will trap faster without them.


----------



## newtopidgeons

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I would forget the barbs, They will trap faster without them.


Time for my beginner question. I built my trap with no barbs, figured it would work just fine. I showed my friend/mentor and he gave me a trap with barbs and said here put this in one side, get another for the other side. He said use the one he have me for an ''IN'' door and get another one for an "OUT" door. I didnt ask him why, I should have. But why? Why do you even need barbs? I dont see a pigeon flying out the red rose style traps. You can open it, close it, and set it for race day.


----------



## Greek Boy

Newtopidgeons, I believe your friend/mentor was telling you to have one set of barbs for going into aviary from loft and one set for entering the loft once again. This method is used alot because it makes the birds use the traps constantly hence retraining themselves regularly. On race day trap for entering aviary from loft are locked. On return from race or training toss birds land into aviary and enter barbs going in where they are clocked. I hope this helps. All the best, Nick..


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I think your trap will work fine but if you cover the top and down the 45 degree angle to the end it would be even better. Let me explain, a bird returning from a race should enter with no distractions from birds possibly sitting on top of trap looking down at him. I believe this will make a bird to back out causing you to loose valuble seconds. This is an observation I have seen from the way pigeons behave. They are very cautious when entering. I think your loft and ideas are great and this is only one mans opinion. All the best to you in the pigeon world. Nick..


----------



## Wingsonfire

Worked on the aviaries Saturday and today, I am pretty slow at this stuff, well I am pretty slow period lol lol. Made up a divider rail just in case I want to section off the loft in the future the aviaries will be separate too.. Beer Time Boys And Girls..


----------



## NayNay

Thank you so much for providing such detailed photos. It is really looking great. I like the divider on the aviary a lot. It's smart to plan ahead for what you might want to do in the future. That is what I am trying to do in designing my first loft. Your thread has been realy helpful. 
P.S.- I move slow too! but, at least we are still movin, right?


----------



## billyr70

Now that is one good lookin loft bro....


----------



## Wingsonfire

billyr70 said:


> Now that is one good lookin loft bro....


Dang right it is Billy


----------



## Wingsonfire

NayNay said:


> Thank you so much for providing such detailed photos. It is really looking great. I like the divider on the aviary a lot. It's smart to plan ahead for what you might want to do in the future. That is what I am trying to do in designing my first loft. Your thread has been realy helpful.
> P.S.- I move slow too! but, at least we are still movin, right?


Thanks NayNay, I just hope the pics will help other people building a loft or anything for that matter. I forgot to post that this is the end of 4 weeks working on it... And as far as the slow thing I am like a Tortuga


----------



## billyr70

I have seen a lot of lofts built on here and YOU my friend are the king of builders.  Keep it up and keep posting pictures, i think everyone is going to tear there lofts down and start over.. lollol...


----------



## steveeman

what's up mike ur loft looks nice, i stoped by ur house on thursday but u were at work


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I really enjoy looking at your loft construction pics. I'm sure many fanciers have gotten some excellent ideas from you. Keep up the great work, Nick..


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks Greek Boy, I am pretty much proof that if I can build a loft anyone can  And you know what there are a lot of great loft builders here, you just have to work with what you have..


----------



## Goingatitagain

What a beautiful loft !! something to be real proud of.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Goingatitagain said:


> What a beautiful loft !! something to be real proud of.


Thank you Anthony


----------



## rpalmer

Very nice. Looks like you got that router figured out. I think it would be hard to see what you have and not want it for ones self.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, I couldn't agree more about ventilation. To me it's one of the most important things you can do for your pigeons. It makes all the difference in their health and helps get them in form. A question if I may? Why is everyone so into "V" perches? I have found the birds are harder to pick up. They seem to have an easy escape route as opposed to box perches where there is hardly any chance to get away. I always found the birds more at ease when in their own box. I needed the birds to be tame and easily picked up to check feathers, weight, and form during training. I found it much simpler to accomplish this with box perches. Of course handling them from birth on is how you start getting them use to being picked up and handled. Anyway just a thought. All the best...Nick.


After thinking it over I am going to make box perches for this one  I plan on using 1x4's slotted with my dado blade so they should all just slip in together if I do them right


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I think your'e making a smart move. I made mine the same way with slotting them out. I believe this is neater and stronger. I kept them off the wall so droppings could be scraped back and go down to a catch drawer with sterile sand. About 2"off the wall will make them all face forward if memory serves. Another way- 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/anyone-out-there-with-starter-loft-34485.html check these box perches out, scroll down and take a look. Anyway all the best to you and yours..Nick..


----------



## Vladik

Wingsonfire said:


> I am not good on drawing things out but I am planning on making it pretty much like my first one, I still have a few pieces of bar grating left that I will use for the floor like I did on my other one.


Could you dive me the dimensions please?


----------



## Wingsonfire

Vladik said:


> Could you dive me the dimensions please?


When I have time I will post a few for you, I think I will try to build up some of these, the perches are all removable for cleaning, don't know if they will turn out any good or not


----------



## newtopidgeons

I have faith in you. Maybe make the 1x stationary and just slide the plywood pieces in and out.


----------



## NayNay

I am curious about this style of perch. I like the concept in terms of cleaning, not pooping on the other birds, etc- seems to be a good mix of the advantages of V perches combined with advantages of a box perch. But, I am curious about the steep angle- I read someone saying that box perches are nice so the birds can lay down. So with these, I am imagining that they just stay on the perch? I am in the planning stages right now, so any info helps. Thanks- and lookin good Wings!


----------



## PigeonVilla

Wingsonfire said:


> When I have time I will post a few for you, I think I will try to build up some of these, the perches are all removable for cleaning, don't know if they will turn out any good or not


 I have made a simular version to this and the birds still manage to poop on the level board part just as much but I still like the concept of it . The ones they sell in catalogs , the individual perches all rest on two metal rods front and back that go across the length of the shelf for easy lift off and scraping ,two groves in the perch hold them in place across the metal rods its brillaint.The vertical boards are all conected at the top and bottom to hold them in place .


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, with your construction skills these type box perches should present you with no problem to make and assemble. Very nice choice. Can't wait to see the finished product in your loft. All the best, Nick..


----------



## pigoenwind

turn out is better. easy to clean.


----------



## pigoenwind

like this easy to easy clean


----------



## Vladik

Wingsonfire said:


> When I have time I will post a few for you, I think I will try to build up some of these, the perches are all removable for cleaning, don't know if they will turn out any good or not


Thanks man! and could you tell me where you got the bar grating? im looking for some but they are all so expencive.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Don't laugh too hard, I think they will look better when they are all spaced right and square


----------



## NayNay

No laughter- just appreciation that you are sharing your project step by step so we can all follow along. It's better than "Jersey Shore"-lol - well, most things are better than Jersey Shore, so I will say instead, It's like having a loft building seminar.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Vladik said:


> Thanks man! and could you tell me where you got the bar grating? im looking for some but they are all so expencive.


Check Craigslist or scrap metal places, and yes it is expensive to purchase new for sure, it sure is nice though  Up north it may not be the thing to use but here in the Dallas Fort Worth Area it is petty nice stuff


----------



## Wingsonfire

Someone asked me about the rods, they are 5/8 dowel rods that that were too short so I center drilled them and put dowel pins in them with glue. I have some 3/4 pvc pipe that I will be splitting and cutting to the width of the perches to act as spacers also..


----------



## NayNay

As for grating, I have a recycled building place here in my town- was there yesterday, and they had tons of grated metal shelving/closet organizers broken down into smaller pieces that should be perfect. So, Be on the lookout on C-list for crappy metal shelving/closet organizers- or garage sales- or your local building supply recyclers.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Got one set of the perches pretty much finished. They came out better than what I thought they would. Now that I know what I am doing the second set will go a little faster  steveeman stopped by and helped me finish them up, he is a very nice young man.


----------



## newtopidgeons

I knew you could do it.


----------



## NayNay

Nice- Thanks so very much for the clear and informative photos!


----------



## Wingsonfire

pigoenwind said:


> like this easy to easy clean


Those are some nice high dollar perches for sure are they yours?


----------



## raftree3

I hope the birds appreciate your efforts. I built some like World of Wings has...they're essentially box perches without the box. My YB's hated them, so I took off the dividers and now they think they're okay?


----------



## Wingsonfire

raftree3 said:


> I hope the birds appreciate your efforts. I built some like World of Wings has...they're essentially box perches without the box. My YB's hated them, so I took off the dividers and now they think they're okay?


You have any pictures of the Word Of Wings Perches raftree?


----------



## Wingsonfire

newtopidgeons said:


> I knew you could do it.


I am glad that you knew it


----------



## Wingsonfire

I have a question, the openings are 9 wide and 9.5 tall on the perches I just built. Someone in our club said that I should have made them 12x12????? Its always something aint it


----------



## Pip Logan

Everything is looking so good wings!


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, you did a beautiful job and the sizes are just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if you install a set of these in your other loft as well once you have experienced the new ones. Again excellent workmanship. All the best, Nick..


----------



## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, you did a beautiful job and the sizes are just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if you install a set of these in your other loft as well once you have experienced the new ones. Again excellent workmanship. All the best, Nick..


Thanks Nick, I think I may make them bigger though, just for a piece of mind, maybe I can sell these, if not scrap them I guess lol lol.


----------



## raftree3

You can see them on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E0DSA13RII&feature=related

The next half of my young birds are just going to have to deal with for a while. I do think that you might find that 9x9.5 is a little tight..that's the size that these WOW perches are.


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I believe the size you made is fine. The way it is the bird flies to it's perch and turns around and faces front, the droppings deposited on the slanted part. It was designed with that in mind. The bird has room to lay down. If you go larger with the width size the bird can face anyway it wants and drop it's droppings on the bird below or on it's own perch. Just food for thought, again looks great. Yours in sport, Nick..


----------



## rpalmer

Wingsonfire said:


> I have a question, the openings are 9 wide and 9.5 tall on the perches I just built. Someone in our club said that I should have made them 12x12????? Its always something aint it


Sour grapes. They are functional as well as pieces of art from a craftsman.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Wingsonfire said:


> I have a question, the openings are 9 wide and 9.5 tall on the perches I just built. Someone in our club said that I should have made them 12x12????? Its always something aint it


This would be the case if the birds were facing to the side they might need more room, but in this case you do not want them to be able to pair up in a perch. Facing forward they could go three wide in a 12" perch. I would be more worried about the depth of the perches. As long as the tail feathers can extend out, you are good to go. I have a few birds that like to perch on my 2x4 construction that is about 5" wide x 8" tall. I have a hen that stays there all night by choice. I have a pair nesting on top of my nest boxes in a 5" gap. I think the whole purpose of those type of perches were for the hens. Where they could not nest, could not fit two on a perch. The size seems appropriate.


----------



## raftree3

Watch the CBS video on youngster care and at the end Rick explains the perches that I described as World of Wings perches. They're 11"x11" with 4.5" perches. The WOW are a little smaller and that's what I copied.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks guys for easing my mind on the perches, it helped a lot, I was POed about them lol lol, got some more done, aviaries are finished the windows are trimmed out inside and outside and I think I can just about do some painting now. I also added a little bit the the drop traps too.


----------



## steveeman

hey mike, the loft and the windows look good. what color are you going to paint the loft?


----------



## billyr70

Looks really good man, keep it up bro.


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

Looks good, I would cut the bobs off, It may harm a flying bird.


----------



## rpalmer

Do I spy an antenna pad in the middle picture?


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, Very nice job on your aviary. I like what you did with your trap, adding dowels to prevent any bird from exiting from above and using bobs at the end of their entrance. Shadybug makes a good point about the bobs being a bit long and possibly hurting a bird flying up. The window framing and all your construction work is beautifully done. Can't wait to see your new perches installed in your loft. Looking at everyones lofts is making me get excited about getting my own started. You all have given me some great ideas for my own construction . Thanks again Nick..


----------



## raftree3

I think all the advice sure turned your nice trap into a very busy place. Guess the birds will be the next with their own advice.


----------



## Wayne Johnson

That is a beautiful loft. I would be proud to have that in my neighborhood. It looks great and is very functional.


----------



## spirit wings

That is soooo nice... pretty soon it will be time to take a dip in that pool.. put another floatie in there for the birds...lol..


----------



## Wingsonfire

rpalmer said:


> Do I spy an antenna pad in the middle picture?


Yes, its a Unikon


----------



## Wingsonfire

steveeman said:


> hey mike, the loft and the windows look good. what color are you going to paint the loft?


I was going to paint it the same color as my other one but I found some oops paint at Home Depot that is darker that I will use, cant beat 15 bucks for 5 gallons of Behr exterior semi gloss


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks Wayne and Sprit, I am having a good time building it but I am running out of steam


----------



## Wingsonfire

Got the front and inside primed with Kilz primer and have started painting the front. Finally built a door that turned out pretty good if I do say so myself, its all dado-ed and I used 2x4's 2x6's and 3/4 inch plywood  I would like to get some birds in it tomorrow, but I just don't know if I can make that happen, we will see, I have a few friends from work coming by to help paint????


----------



## Wingsonfire

raftree3 said:


> I think all the advice sure turned your nice trap into a very busy place. Guess the birds will be the next with their own advice.


I hear u raftee, our race secretary for our combine came over today and looked at it and loved the drop trap with the condition that I throw the bobs in the trash


----------



## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, Very nice job on your aviary. I like what you did with your trap, adding dowels to prevent any bird from exiting from above and using bobs at the end of their entrance. Shadybug makes a good point about the bobs being a bit long and possibly hurting a bird flying up. The window framing and all your construction work is beautifully done. Can't wait to see your new perches installed in your loft. Looking at everyones lofts is making me get excited about getting my own started. You all have given me some great ideas for my own construction . Thanks again Nick..


Thanks Greek Boy


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Wingsonfire said:


> I hear u raftee, our race secretary for our combine came over today and looked at it and loved the drop trap with the condition that I throw the bobs in the trash


I have to agree....the rest looks awesome.


----------



## PigeonVilla

I too agree your loft looks awesome , you did and are doing a great job there , wish I had the funds to do something as sweet as what you got going there .Thanks for the inspiration and the sharing of it all .


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, The door came out very nice. In fact the whole loft looks awesome. Wait till the loft is finished then place your birds in. Why put them through the extra stress of banging on top of moving into new loft? Looks like your just about done anyway. Nick..


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks Nick, as long as I get the front and inside finished the way I want it the rest will be finished in a few weeks, more trim, paint etc etc


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

Ya, Whats the hurry, at least you didn't take a year like me.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

What are you putting in here again? You have the breeding pens, and the other flying loft. Are you going to make one old bird and the other young? My birds are just hatching out there second round. Your 6 will be out of the third rounders. Need to figure out what you want.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks Thunderbird Racing


----------



## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Ya, Whats the hurry, at least you didn't take a year like me.


 I have young birds that I want to get in there that's why for the mad rush lol lol


----------



## Wingsonfire

hillfamilyloft said:


> What are you putting in here again? You have the breeding pens, and the other flying loft. Are you going to make one old bird and the other young? My birds are just hatching out there second round. Your 6 will be out of the third rounders. Need to figure out what you want.


Its going to be my young bird racing loft Randy and yes we need to hook up on the babies for sure


----------



## Wingsonfire

No birds in it today, I worked my tail off painting and got a lot done, its beeeeer time now


----------



## Wingsonfire

One more thing, the wife said take a bath, I will never understand her


----------



## Goingatitagain

Absolutley , outstanding job on your loft !! I am so jealous


----------



## Wingsonfire

Goingatitagain said:


> Absolutley , outstanding job on your loft !! I am so jealous


Thanks a lot Goingatitagain.. This painting thing is taking me longer than what I was thinking  Almost got the front done though, that oops paint looks pretty good


----------



## Shadybug Lofts

Ya missed a spot on that door.


----------



## newtopidgeons

Looks awesome, your going to have pigeon poop in there befor you know it.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The time it takes to paint one of these by hand is the reason I invested in a sprayer.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I always paint the aviaries before I put them on.


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, Loft looks really great. I have a question? I noticed you leave your aviary door down when birds are out flying. Would it be better to have door open and remain at same level as aviary floor? It could be held open with two thin steel cables, one on each side of aviary door then going to the aviary door frame. This would increase your landing area and would save the use of a piece of 2x4 to rest aviary door on to keep it at that height. Or is the idea to get the birds into aviary faster skipping the door and saving time. Just curious about your reasoning if you don't mind me asking? Nick..


----------



## Jeff Ward

Great job, wish I lived closer I would love to visit....


----------



## Jaysen

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, Loft looks really great. I have a question? I noticed you leave your aviary door down when birds are out flying. Would it be better to have door open and remain at same level as aviary floor? It could be held open with two thin steel cables, one on each side of aviary door then going to the aviary door frame. This would increase your landing area and would save the use of a piece of 2x4 to rest aviary door on to keep it at that height. Or is the idea to get the birds into aviary faster skipping the door and saving time. Just curious about your reasoning if you don't mind me asking? Nick..


If you click on the photo link below and then "Pigeon Head" you will our first loft. Note that the aviary on it has fold down doors that we propped up with a steel rod...

My experience is that the birds avoid landing on anything that has side supports. We originally had the doors as removable, but everyone would hit the ground then fly up. Putting the doors hinged as the landing board stopped the ground landing. 

The space between the 2x4 supports is 22". More than enough room to land directly between the supports.


----------



## Greek Boy

Jaysen, I had a loft similar to Wingsonfire except the aviary had a one piece door the length of the landing board.which opened like yours but was held by two 3/16" plastic covered steal cables. One at each end of the door. I had up to 40 youngsters land on it and landing board at same time with no problems. The landing board was 10'Lx2'W. Nick.


----------



## Wingsonfire

Well its getting there, the front and inside is just about finished, Jedds has their bob traps on back order so I will just cover up the two opening at the top for a few weeks  Greek Boy I just never got around to adding a cable to support the doors on the other but they trap just fine in my opinion but I think I will get that done this weekend or the next on both lofts to see how it works using the aviary door as a landing board, I am just to lazy sometimes.... I still need to add a little hop up area so they can enter the trap too.....


----------



## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Ya missed a spot on that door.


I missed more than one


----------



## sky tx

Wings--you did not post a picture of the Kitchen -bath- bedroom in that house?


----------



## Wingsonfire

hillfamilyloft said:


> I always paint the aviaries before I put them on.


I do have a sprayer and maybe should have used it


----------



## Wingsonfire

sky tx said:


> Wings--you did not post a picture of the Kitchen -bath- bedroom in that house?


LOL, I know, I was going to say maybe on the next one but I hope that my loft building days are just about over with after this one


----------



## rpalmer

sky tx said:


> Wings--you did not post a picture of the Kitchen -bath- bedroom in that house?


Yes... I'm about to ask if I can move into it!  Really nice.


----------



## Nomad_Lofts

I reallly like your set up I was looking for the same on my loft (in the makings ) but just a little bit bigger 20x10 if you have any drawings are a web site I would love to duplicate with your blessing. ??? What is under the perches kitty litter? And the bar grate you used whats the spacing? One more for the road if I use diamond grating should I use 1/2 spacing or 3/4 ? thanks


----------



## Wingsonfire

Nomad_Lofts said:


> I reallly like your set up I was looking for the same on my loft (in the makings ) but just a little bit bigger 20x10 if you have any drawings are a web site I would love to duplicate with your blessing. ??? What is under the perches kitty litter? And the bar grate you used whats the spacing? One more for the road if I use diamond grating should I use 1/2 spacing or 3/4 ? thanks


I don't have any drawing, I just looked at a lot of lofts and sheds and saw a pool house picture that was similar to some lofts I had seen with a overhang and said to myself that's it that's what I want. Its just a basic house or shed framing with some home made trusses with a overhang right at 30 inches, you can pretty much make the pitch the way you want it.. With the overhang at 30 inches I would recommend that you use 2x6's as 30 inches is a pretty far length without any supports. Hope this helps you? My grating opening is right at 7/16 x 1 inch. If it were me I think I would use the 3/4 expanded metal. You can use the basic floor joists 2x6"6 every 16 inches and get a circular saw and cut a grove in them every 2 foot or so and lay in some flat steel say 1/8 x2 inches to help with the support when walking on it? oh I forgot the litter is just compressed wood pellets that they use for rabbits etc.


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, Just wanted to let you know I think your new young racing loft is top notch. I don't know if changing the aviary door on your first loft is a good idea because the birds are use to it just the way it is. Make the change only if your not racing them at present. But the new loft I would definitely give it a try with your new young bird team. Again beautiful job. Nick


----------



## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, Just wanted to let you know I think your new young racing loft is top notch. I don't know if changing the aviary door on your first loft is a good idea because the birds are use to it just the way it is. Make the change only if your not racing them at present. But the new loft I would definitely give it a try with your new young bird team. Again beautiful job. Nick


Thanks Nick


----------



## steveeman

Michael's(Wingsonfire) loft is ridiculous man, it's a Mansion for pigeons. lol
i went to his house to see the loft and looks good, i wish i had the skills to build something like that.

Steve


----------



## Wingsonfire

Thanks Steve... Here you go Nick we have landing boards


----------



## PigeonVilla

You sure went all out on this bad boy , it looks great !!


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I think you will agree this is better than just hanging door down. I have always found they hit the door and go right in? I think it looks great and I hope it improves your birds landing and trapping time. All the best. Nick..


----------



## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire, I think you will agree this is better than just hanging door down. I have always found they hit the door and go right in? I think it looks great and I hope it improves your birds landing and trapping time. All the best. Nick..


Well it definitely wont hurt having it that's for sure and I am sure that they will be great  Did not do a lot today, a friend came by that had some electrical issues with a 4 wheel ATV, that's what I do at work, trouble shoot and fix F-16 and F-35 wiring. I don't know what gave him the idea that I could fix his ATV but we did get it going lol lol Got my hop up boards installed for the traps and hung up some 2x3 runners for the perches which are going in tomorrow with some babies..


----------



## Wingsonfire

rpalmer said:


> Yes... I'm about to ask if I can move into it!  Really nice.


Hey I see ur a ham also, my call is AA5KT lifetime member of the ARRL


----------



## rpalmer

Wingsonfire said:


> Hey I see ur a ham also, my call is AA5KT lifetime member of the ARRL


Roger,roger.  I use the old 5; 80,40,20,15 and 10m. I use 80 am & pm and 40 in between. I'm current everywhere you look. Catch you on the air sometime, we'll talk birds . 73's


----------



## Wingsonfire

PigeonVilla said:


> You sure went all out on this bad boy , it looks great !!


Thanks PigeonVilla


----------



## Wingsonfire

rpalmer said:


> Roger,roger.  I use the old 5; 80,40,20,15 and 10m. I use 80 am & pm and 40 in between. I'm current everywhere you look. Catch you on the air sometime, we'll talk birds . 73's


Yep we will hook up sometime for sure 73's


----------



## hillfamilyloft

You should enter this one in the AU loft contest. I think it is also a good model for a mid-sized loft. Very nice work.


----------



## Wingsonfire

hillfamilyloft said:


> You should enter this one in the AU loft contest. I think it is also a good model for a mid-sized loft. Very nice work.


I did not know that they had a loft contest?? I guess I better look into it. Thanks Randy


----------



## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, I agree with Hillfamilyloft, you should enter your loft in the AU loft contest.
It really looks like a professional racing loft. I hope your putting in your box perches that you made with slanted rear board. They really came out well built. Can't wait to see your loft completed. Between Shadybug loft's, Jeff Ward's loft, Hillfamily loft's, and Wingsonfire loft's, I have picked up some great ideas on design and construction. You have all made me very eager to restart my own construction job on a four section racing loft and a two section breeding loft. I thank you all and anyone else on Pigeon Talk I might not have mentioned about keeping my passion alive. All the best to you all, Nick..


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## steveeman

hey mike, the landing board is nice addition but is it necessary when racing?
u should definitely enter the AU loft contest.

steve


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## Wingsonfire

You need some type of landing board for them Steve, that is a must have thing. 

OK, I am ready for young birds. Finished up the door and installed a door closer which in my opinion is a must have too, also got the perches hung up. Just need to clean up the inside, write down band numbers and put the birds in. I still need to finish up the trim on the outside and do some painting


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## steveeman

Man, this is one of the best lofts i ever seen. Mike u got to give ur self a pat in a back amazing work.


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## NayNay

Ditto on the inspiration factor- and big thanks for the sharing of the process with excellent pics. Helps a noob like me to avoid as many design errors as possible.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- your new loft is looking better every time I look. I love your new perches as I'm sure your new youngsters will. Are you going to make another set for the other side eventually. Excellent design for a racing loft. If your birds are as good as your loft you will do very nicely in the up coming races. All the best. Nick..


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- A question if I may? Are the walls of the new loft insulated with some kind of insulation material or are they hollow. I'm talking about between interior wall and exterior wall. Just curious, and if yes what did you use. I know in colder climates some fanciers do this. Nick..


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## Goingatitagain

What a beautiful job, something to be proud of !!

You sure you want to go and put birds in there 

The birds are going to be real happy.


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire- A question if I may? Are the walls of the new loft insulated with some kind of insulation material or are they hollow. I'm talking about between interior wall and exterior wall. Just curious, and if yes what did you use. I know in colder climates some fanciers do this. Nick..


Nick I don't have any insulation between the walls at all.


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## Wingsonfire

Thanks guys for the complements on my loft, still painting the outside, got the back painted today and will start on the sides tomorrow if the rain holds off but it wont bother me too much if I get a day off from working on it


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## billyr70

Looking good.


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire- your new loft is looking better every time I look. I love your new perches as I'm sure your new youngsters will. Are you going to make another set for the other side eventually. Excellent design for a racing loft. If your birds are as good as your loft you will do very nicely in the up coming races. All the best. Nick..


Thanks Nick, yes I have to make one more set for the other side


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## Wingsonfire

Been painting all day, put on a coat of primer a few days ago and 2 nice coats of paint, its getting there its getting there its getting there  will go to the Depot and get some wood for the trim tomorrow, its beer time for sure.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire, Enjoy your brew, you definitely earned it ! Beautiful paint job my friend. I like seeing fanciers who take the time constructing their lofts the right way and safe as well. Nick..


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## billyr70

You kick butt man, i love it. Keep up the great work and send me a BEER bro.


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## NayNay

Looking good- and looking like the end is near....


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## steveeman

It looks even better when u see it in person. i think he will be done with every thing today, he finished painting the loft yesterday. And u should see his birds they look beautiful. GOOD JOB MIKE!!!!!!!!!!


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## Wingsonfire

steveeman said:


> It looks even better when u see it in person. i think he will be done with every thing today, he finished painting the loft yesterday. And u should see his birds they look beautiful. GOOD JOB MIKE!!!!!!!!!!


Not finished yet Steve but I am getting pretty close . Put up the trim, I got it pre-primed, just need to paint it now, think I will stop for today and get ready to eat some country style pork ribs and of course have a few beers too.....


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## Tim's Tumblers

Beautiful.... Ribs look pretty good too !!! Good Job...


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## Shadybug Lofts

Wings on fire I think you should start a cooking thread for that last pic. LOL


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Wings on fire I think you should start a cooking thread for that last pic. LOL


Me thinks ur right


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## Wingsonfire

billyr70 said:


> You kick butt man, i love it. Keep up the great work and send me a BEER bro.


U got it Billy


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## Shadybug Lofts

Your loft looks really nice inside and out.


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## swagg

any chance you could post up some more pics of your door? Thanks


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## Wingsonfire

swagg said:


> any chance you could post up some more pics of your door? Thanks


Sure, I will post a few more tomorrow, here is basically how I made it.

http://www.buildeazy.com/newplans/playhouse_6x6_door.html


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- The trim looks great as the rest of the loft. Just wondering, are the youngsters in the new loft from your birds in the breeding pens you built? And how many are there if I may ask? -Nick..


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## steveeman

Man those RIBS look delicious, i wish i was at ur house on sunday mike.

HAPPY EASTER TO EVERY ONE


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Your loft looks really nice inside and out.


Thanks Shadybugs


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire- The trim looks great as the rest of the loft. Just wondering, are the youngsters in the new loft from your birds in the breeding pens you built? And how many are there if I may ask? -Nick..


I think 11 or so in there and most are form the breeding pens


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## Wingsonfire

Sorry I did not post the door pictures yesterday it was raing most of the day and just didn't get outside much. I did manage to build up some steps for this loft and the old one, they are heavy


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## Wayne Johnson

I was looking at Teflon paint. I wonder if it would make keeping the slanted boards on your perches cleaner easier?


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## hillfamilyloft

I am about to my cutoff point for young bird eggs that will be able to fly. Any eggs after that I will foster out the best. So we need to talk about what 6 I send down to you mid June. I will PM you when it gets closer to time. I know they will be going to a good home.


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## boobooo96

Hi Buddy

Just want to stop by and check out your progress, if you can take a front picture of your slanted perches and post it. I know you busy, but I am started the process of building one also, so if you have rough dimensions I'm sure to keep up with it. Gracia's 

PS. Someone should take a barrel of ice water and pour it all over you, cause your wings are truly on FIRE.


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## Goingatitagain

Wing's.... What a beautiful looking loft. You need to send a picture of your work to AU. They would love to that baby !!


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## Feathered Dragons

Wingsonfire said:


> Don't laugh too hard, I think they will look better when they are all spaced right and square


How far apart did you space the dowels?


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## Wingsonfire

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am about to my cutoff point for young bird eggs that will be able to fly. Any eggs after that I will foster out the best. So we need to talk about what 6 I send down to you mid June. I will PM you when it gets closer to time. I know they will be going to a good home.


I understand Randy, if you are pressed for birds next year is no problem.


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## Wingsonfire

boobooo96 said:


> Hi Buddy
> 
> Just want to stop by and check out your progress, if you can take a front picture of your slanted perches and post it. I know you busy, but I am started the process of building one also, so if you have rough dimensions I'm sure to keep up with it. Gracia's
> 
> PS. Someone should take a barrel of ice water and pour it all over you, cause your wings are truly on FIRE.


I will take a few pictures tomorrow for you


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## Wingsonfire

Wayne Johnson said:


> I was looking at Teflon paint. I wonder if it would make keeping the slanted boards on your perches cleaner easier?


I have never used Teflon paint? It may be the thing to use. I don't know?


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## Wingsonfire

mcox0112 said:


> How far apart did you space the dowels?


I will post the measurements tomorrow for you


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## steveeman

Mike are u done with building the loft and did u start training the young birds?

steve


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## Wingsonfire

Finished painting the trim today and let the 13 out and I am short one so far. Sorry guys that I did not keep my word on the pics and the diminutions on the perches, its been a long day today..........


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## steveeman

i hope the one that u lost come's back mike and how did the rest do


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## Wingsonfire

They did ok Steve, not much flying for the most part yet..



















The plywood is 9.25 wide that I used, the dowel spacing going up and down in the front and back is at 10 inches with a 5 inch offset going down in the back. I drilled the holes 1.75 from the front and 2.25 from the back and the dowels from wall to wall are space right at 9 inches. Hope this helps you out guys?


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## swagg

I like the perches. One question, When your trying to catch the birds do they ever fly into the back of the perches onto the poop slope?


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## Shadybug Lofts

Looks like a lot of cleaning on those perches.


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## Wingsonfire

swagg said:


> I like the perches. One question, When your trying to catch the birds do they ever fly into the back of the perches onto the poop slope?


A few have lol, make the easier to catch too lol lol


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Looks like a lot of cleaning on those perches.


Maybe some day they will invent a pigeon that don't poop?


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## swagg

Wingsonfire said:


> A few have lol, make the easier to catch too lol lol


Lol, those are the ones that you want to catch while wearing gloves


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## swagg

Wingsonfire said:


> Maybe some day they will invent a pigeon that don't poop?


And oh yeah, I already have been working on them, just waiting for my patent to clear before i market them


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## Wingsonfire

swagg said:


> And oh yeah, I already have been working on them, just waiting for my patent to clear before i market them


I'm in for a few pair, put ME on the LIST


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## Wayne Johnson

Isn't why we aren't supposed to throw rice at wedding anymore, because of exploding pigeons?


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## newtopidgeons

My dad said he trained some to not poop before... Said he was training them to not eat, ofcourse not eating they didnt poop either. He said they had got to doing real good not eating and all, said it had been a couple of days. Then they just,,, UP AND DIED


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## Wingsonfire

Worked on it a little bit more today. Got the what ever you call it installed and painted in the back (soffit) Someone give me a beer or 3


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## Greek Boy

wingsonfire- just wondering how those youngsters are doing in the new loft. I've read that you lost one first time out. Did it ever return? Would love to see more pics of birds and your lofts. Nice job on your rear wall soffit. All the best -Nick..


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## steveeman

The bird he lost came back, i went to visit him & i saw his young birds they look great.


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## Wingsonfire

Yes he came back Nick  He was a January hatch and was worried that he was really toooo strong on the wing.... Anyway he took off like a bat out of well U know lol lol. After about 5 minutes I let out my old birds to see if he would hook up with them and he did but I didn't know it for two days  He trapped in with the old birds  I will post a few pictures of the birds next week....


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- That bird was deffinitley strong on the wing at that age. Glad you got him back and like how you got him back with your old bird team, smart move. Are the young using the landing board? I'm sure they are. Would love to see more pics next week when you get some time. Again everything looks very professional. Good luck-Nick.


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## billyr70

Very impressive, now its time for me to have a Beer... lollol


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## Wingsonfire

Thanks Billy, I need to make some more perches for the other side as I am from the other side  .. I am going to do the standard box perches. Picked up a few 1x6" that I will try to dado to have them all fit together


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## Wingsonfire

Its hotttt 97 at 1 pm but the box perches are getting there once I half way figured out what the heck I was doing .......


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## zugbug13

Nice job. Dado's look clean from the pics. Don't envy the 97. My temp is in the upper 70s today, but 90's are looming around the corner. Regards, Charlie


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## Wingsonfire

zugbug13 said:


> Nice job. Dado's look clean from the pics. Don't envy the 97. My temp is in the upper 70s today, but 90's are looming around the corner. Regards, Charlie


Thanks, the dado's came out pretty nice as well as the perches, they came out better than I expected. Just need to get them inside the loft now


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## Wingsonfire

OK, I could not stand it, I got them put up


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## NayNay

Nice~ I personally couldn't dado myself outta a paper bag. Perhaps someday I'll try, it looks way more Pro.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- a very professional job on the box perches. Using dado cuts and interlocking each board makes them very strong and square. Again a beautioful job.
How have your youngsters been using the landing board and your drop trap? Was it worth it as far as comparing to just having the doors hang open? Would love to see some photo's of your young team now that their a little older. Great job on the entire youngster loft. All the best to you and the up coming races.-Nick..


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## JaxRacingLofts

Wingsonfire said:


> OK, I could not stand it, I got them put up


Good Job! Yours look better then mine. I built my perches from 1x6 pressure treated fence panels running vertical and 1x4 running horizontal. I do not own a router so I did the cut outs with a skill saw and a chisel. I thought it was a good idea at the time...but now my horizontal runners are starting to warp and twist. 
I don't think the pigeons care as long as they have a spot to crap but it bothers me because of the amount of time I put into building it. Looks like I will need to either let it ride or deal with it by rebuilding them over from scratch.


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## Wayne Johnson

That's the trouble with pressure treated, it is so wet with the arsenic solution that it warps as it dries.


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## Wingsonfire

FINALLY got my traps in from Jedds they have been on shortage for 2 months now, I will use them for late birds, I really do like them..


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire-glad you finally got your traps in place for late arrivals. Did a nice neat job. Are your birds doing well with the drop traps entering loft? How do you and the birds like the landing boards now? Everything looks great. Your in sport Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire-glad you finally got your traps in place for late arrivals. Did a nice neat job. Are your birds doing well with the drop traps entering loft? How do you and the birds like the landing boards now? Everything looks great. Your in sport Nick..


Nick, the birds are using the drop traps really well with no problems at all and the landing boards are spot on also  I with I would have got the bob traps earlier to have them trained in using them but they will learn in due time.. Now I need to get around to making a divider in the loft but its to dang hottttt right now and I also have a few other home projects going on also as well as pool cleaning lawn care etc etc etc ........... After I get the divider in I will post a few pictures to the AU loft building contest just to see how I rank with the other contestants


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- You'll do fine were ever you enter photos of your lofts. They are all professionaly built with some great ideas. You will rate up there with the best. Good luck in the AU loft contests.-Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

Well, they are all going through the bob traps now, took them about a week to get used to them but they are doing fine in trapping. Snapped a few pictures of the birds. I want to thank Akbird for the ones that I got from him. The one in the center is a Jansen from direct imports and both nest mates are doing great as are the other ones too, I guess the other was a little camera shy


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## Jeff Ward

Wonderful photos, love the birds.... Cheers, Jeff


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## Wingsonfire

Jeff Ward said:


> Wonderful photos, love the birds.... Cheers, Jeff


Not the best of pictures Jeff, but I am pretty proud of the young birds that I have, we will see what happens at the end of September


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- The birds look good and healthy. I would be proud of those birds and your lofts as well. All the best-Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire- The birds look good and healthy. I would be proud of those birds and your lofts as well. All the best-Nick..


Thanks Nick


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## Shadybug Lofts

Nice birds and nice grass


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Nice birds and nice grass


Thanks Mucho


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## Wingsonfire

I started my loading door like Billyr70 did and am making some progress, its hotttt here still so not doing much on it everyday. I did have a big problem with it. I have the Lephew" aluminum baskets that have the door that is hinged on the bottom and was wondering how I was going to make it work, the basked has to be pulled out enough to close the door and also would not fit up against the loft close enough to load the birds due to the hinges on the bottom. Here is my fix for that, it came out pretty nice, I just drilled off the hinges and made a track at the bottom for the door to slide in from the top. I did not take a picture of my big baskets but here is one of my smaller one to give you a idea what I did. It works really well and looks factory


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## Wayne Johnson

birds always look so good in warm weather. They are sleek and feathers tight to body. In the cold weather they fluff up.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- Great idea changing your crate door the way you did to accomondate the loft loading door. I'm impressed with the method of loading the birds into the crates with out handling and causing stress. It takes less time and is alot easier, but on shipping day I would prefer to handle the birds and inspect each one before going to the club that night. Again nice simple job changing your carrying basket door.-Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

I about have the loading door almost finished up, it was more work than thought it would be lol, 103 temps today did not help either... I made it where I can open it from either the outside or inside. I think it will work out pretty good, we will see said the blind man.... I still have a little more left to do but you guys get the idea how it will be when finished..


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## Thunderbird Racing

Nice work!


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## Wingsonfire

Thunderbird Racing said:


> Nice work!


Thanks, I need to do the other side too and I guess my other loft as well. The first one was the hard one, maybe the others will go a little faster.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- very nice job on the door and basket stand. Good luck with the other loft as well.- Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

Greek Boy said:


> Wingsonfire- very nice job on the door and basket stand. Good luck with the other loft as well.- Nick..


Thanks Nick


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## raftree3

Have you gotten birds into it yet? I followed your plan and built one too but haven't actually tried it yet. I'm thinking the area going in is too high and may need to figure some sort of "funneling", kind of like to know its going to work before I spend much time chasing the birds around. I noticed Rick Mardis lets his birds out through the crates for a while...that might work out?


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## billyr70

Looking great, I like the crate stand.  Good idea.


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## Wingsonfire

raftree3 said:


> Have you gotten birds into it yet? I followed your plan and built one too but haven't actually tried it yet. I'm thinking the area going in is too high and may need to figure some sort of "funneling", kind of like to know its going to work before I spend much time chasing the birds around. I noticed Rick Mardis lets his birds out through the crates for a while...that might work out?


I have not tried it out yet but I will in a few days and give you a up-date on how it works


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## Wingsonfire

Started on my loft wall divider today, got a little done on it, I just now need to decide whether to make a sliding door or a conventional swinging door


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## Wingsonfire

After three beers I made up my mind, I'm going with a sliding door


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## zugbug13

I like the sliding doors in my new loft. I am sure you will as well. Regards, Charlie


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## ceee0237

nice divider, how much it cost u in materials to make it? and how wide it is?


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## gogo10131

good looking divider, and good choice to turn it into a sliding door.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- I agree with your decision, a sliding door takes up less room when being opened and seems not to scare the birds at all while in motion as opposed to the conventional door being opened. The door you built came out great.-Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

All the hard work is pretty much done with the divider except painting  I am happy with it though  It is beer 30 right ??


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## gogo10131

Looks good. I like the idea of being able to look in one section while in another.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- beautfully done, you do deserve a beer or 3.-Nick..


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## Wingsonfire

ceee0237 said:


> nice divider, how much it cost u in materials to make it? and how wide it is?


I think I have around a 100.00 maybe a little more in it and its 6 foot wide, those dowels aint cheap


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## Wingsonfire

zugbug13 said:


> I like the sliding doors in my new loft. I am sure you will as well. Regards, Charlie


You are right I do like it a lot, it was not that hard to install either, I think the track was right at 14 bucks, not bad in my opinion...


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## billyr70

Nice job on the door.


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## Shadybug Lofts

Nice job on the doors, are the tracks like you would use on closets or something like that?


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## steveeman

Good job on the doors Mike


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Nice job on the doors, are the tracks like you would use on closets or something like that?


Its a pocket door track, Lowes did not have them and the first Home Depot I went to did not either, the second one I tried had them


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## Thunderbird Racing

very nice


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## Wingsonfire

Thanks for the nice comments guys, I need to paint them still. I have a darn nice airless but it is a pain to clean up after using it and takes almost a 1/4 gallon just to get it primed and going so I think I will try Harbor Freight tomorrow and pick up this one and give it a try http://www.harborfreight.com/household-low-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-92841.html


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## Shadybug Lofts

Wingsonfire said:


> Thanks for the nice comments guys, I need to paint them still. I have a darn nice airless but it is a pain to clean up after using it and takes almost a 1/4 gallon just to get it primed and going so I think I will try Harbor Freight tomorrow and pick up this one and give it a try http://www.harborfreight.com/household-low-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-92841.html


I sprayed my loft to, but your right it takes a lot of paint.


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## Wingsonfire

Shadybug Lofts said:


> I sprayed my loft to, but your right it takes a lot of paint.


I went to Harbor Freight this morning and picked up this gun http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-66222.html . Man I could not be happier with the results. I am usually very skeptical of some of their tools, it had good reviews and the instructions said it would shoot latex so I said why not. I got them all primed, I did thin it down just a bit and I swear I darn near tried to get it to run and had to work at it to do it..... 35 bucks and a 20% off coupon I am a happy camper  Its a 100 here again I need to feed birds and get ready for work, will finish painting the divider tomorrow or Thursday.......


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## Bluecheckard

I love your loft wingsonfire . I'm sure your birds are enjoying their home.


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## Wingsonfire

Finally got it painted, I had to take back the gun I purchased and exchanged it for the first one that I listed, it worked great with the primer but a no go with latex, the cheap one sprayed it without thinning, Anyway its a done deal now, on to bigger and better things


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## Wingsonfire

Bluecheckard said:


> I love your loft wingsonfire . I'm sure your birds are enjoying their home.


Thanks Mucho..


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## vangimage

Nice divider I may make one like it for my new loft Im building. So you not recommend the sprayer?


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## Wingsonfire

This is the one that I ended up with and it worked really nice. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/household-low-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-92841.html?hftref=cj


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## bhymer

How far apart did you space the 1x2's for you ceiling ???? Thanks


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## raftree3

I got a notice from AU that one of the lofts in the showcase got deleted and I could vote again if I wanted. Think I need to?


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## Wingsonfire

raftree3 said:


> I got a notice from AU that one of the lofts in the showcase got deleted and I could vote again if I wanted. Think I need to?


I guess it would not hurt, I see that they added a new loft in the contest?


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## kbraden

Wingsonfire said:


> I guess it would not hurt, I see that *they added a new loft in the contest*?


Nothing to write home about  

Voting has been extended to Oct 31st too


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## Wingsonfire

bhymer said:


> How far apart did you space the 1x2's for you ceiling ???? Thanks


Sorry I did not see your question, I spaced them the width of the 1 x2's which is 3/4 inch, as a matter of fact I used one to get the spacing.


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## Wingsonfire

kbraden said:


> Nothing to write home about
> 
> Voting has been extended to Oct 31st too


Maybe I will get lucky, who knows?


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## Wingsonfire

Thanks for all of you that voted for me, I tied for first place which is as good a win in my book  The wife is happy and gave me a high 5, she knows I worked pretty hard on it, thanks again everyone!! I think they are sending me a nice print and a winner’s plaque.


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## Greek Boy

Wingsonfire- You put alot of work and of yourself in constructing your loft. You did a beautiful job and deserve top score in my book. Enjoyed following all your posts and pics during the build.-Nick..


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