# More about 2 + week old pigeon



## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

Hi there,
My husband has been raising homing pigeons so he can race them one day. He's pretty new at it and well I wasn't intrested untill he had an orphaned baby pigeon. 

The orphaned baby pigeon's sibling died 1 week after birth, it was very small and seemed as if it was not being fed. It's dad died a day after the baby bird. My husband let the mother "go to the wild" - for what reasons-I do not know. (It kinda irritated me.)

Anyway, he took the orphaned baby pigeon and put him/her with other pigeons in a different loft, hoping the baby would learn from the other pigeons to eat, drink, and the pigeon way of life. That didn't seem to be working out too well-so he brought the pigeon home in a picnic basket. 


I took over from this point.

That was Saturday night. Yesterday, (Sunday) I drove an hour each way to go get baby bird formula and we have a vet appointment Thursday.  I want this bird to live if at all possible!!!  I have grown quite attached-it likes to sit on my chest and it pecks at my face when it's hungry. 

Anyway, I have been reading about baby pigeons and am kinda scared. I read the "Handfeeding Help by Helen in England" web page and now I am afraid I am going to tear the crop with the syringe I have been using. 

I have been using a regular syringe, with a hard, plastic, pointed tip to feed it. I stick it in his throat and he swallows. But he goes nuts 'cause he's hungry and it's hard to keep control of him/her even if my husband helps me.

The bird is a little over two weeks old and he is eating seed-even hard corn kernels. I have not seen him drink water yet. I have also been giving him baby bird formula-about 15-20 cc's about every 3-4 hours I have read and heard conflicting info as far as how much to feed the baby when it's starting to eat seed. 

He will eat seed even after 20 cc's of formula-he acts like he's starving!!! How much is too much and how little is too little???  

He also shakes like crazy whenever we feed him. What is this from???


I am also wondering about cleaning him-what do I do? The formula has been going everywhere. All over him and me. 

I just got a tiny syringe that goes down the throat-I had to call about 5 vets to find it-they had one in stock.


Should I get him antibiotics untill the vet visit-it's monday and the appointment is Thursday. I am worried whatever killed it's dad and sibling might kill him.

Please help-I am desperate to raise this silly lil pigeon.
Jenny.


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*/*

I do not know how to post. Please forgive me.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

There are other ways to feed baby/young pigeons which don't mean putting anything down throat

http://community.webshots.com/album/165797594SYYRWL

That should show you how to feed by using a big syringe with end cut off, and a piece of vetwrap or cloth fixed over the end with a slit in for the bird's beak.

If he is able to eat seed by himself, then he may be a little older than you thought? Best keep it to smaller seeds or maybe soften the corn a little by soaking, to make it easier to digest. They usually take pigeon grit as they feel they need it to help digest, but he sounds a little young for it.

You may help him to drink by immersing his beak (but not his nostrils) in water, when many pigeons will automatically slurp it up.

Feeding formula will give him liquid anyway.

He should have food when his crop is feeling flat - he is OK when it is full like a squishy beanbag.

They will shake and flutter their wings a lot when they are excited about getting fed - that could be what you are seeing. Does he squeak as well?

The problem that lost his sibling could be Paratyphoid, carried by one or both parents. It will often kill one of a pair and not the other. Hopefully the vet can diagnose it. Baytril is often used for this as an antibiotic, but I wouldn't suggest using it without first knowing the dosage for a youngster. Hopefully one of our US members can guide you on this, and whether it is a good idea to treat him prior to the vet.

John


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Jenny,
Where do you live? Your bird needs to be seen before Thursday.
Daryl


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Jen,
I have been fighting paratyphoid in my loft for a month. Finally (I hope) have things under control, with no further losses of birds. I have an idea John has it right in his diagnosis, because it sounds like what my birds and I were going through. Now, if you are within traveling distance to me, I'd be glad to come look at your baby and try to help you. I live in New Gloucester, Maine.
Daryl


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Thanks for replying*

We live In thomaston. Where is New Glouster, Maine??? I have no idea. The bird appears to be fine. And he squeaks a lot! He shakes when he is fed and flaps his wings maybe a little bit.

I will be in Augusta tommorow. Is that near New Glouster?
Thanks,
Jenny.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Jenny,
I'm so sorry the baby has become orphaned due to the death of his Dad & the release of his Mom.  
I'm just curious, was Mom caring for the baby before your husband decided to release her?

It's very possible that whatever caused the early demise of the sibling & Dad, could be something that will cause problems for the baby. A visit to the vet is a good idea.

Others with more experience in 'force' feeding will be along to assist you.

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

New Gloucester is about 15 miles south-southwest of Auburn or approximately 40 miles southwest of Augusta.

Pidgey


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Geezum crow, Pidgey,
How'd you find out where my little itsy, bitsy town is? As to Augusta, I have to go to work tomorrow, but would be willing to travel to Thomaston if needed, on a day off. Then I could help you with syringe feedings.
Daryl


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*More ?'s 'bout a 2 week old Pigeon*

Hi there all, I tried to feed the bird according to link that someone sent in a reply to my last post. The bird didn't care for that much at all. Then I tried the tube that goes down the neck-it hated that! So we went back to feeding it the way we have been-taking a syringe w/a long neck, opening it's beak, and plunge it down. The bird seems to like that best. 

My husband can't remember for sure-but the bird is about two weeks old- +/-It has feathers and yellow fluff still. It still has it's egg tooth. It squeaks a lot.

It loves to eat it's seed and yet he still loves his formula too. 

My husband has a mini loft (portable) and he wants to put the bird in it already. I am not sure if we should do that. We have been keeping it in a picnic basket with hay on the bottom and closing the top when we aren't tending to it, holding it.

How long should we wait untill we put the bird in the mini loft?

It seems to like being held by me on my chest-I put my hands on the bottom and top of the bird-to remind him of his mama keeping him warm. 

At what age do pigeons start weaning??? At what age do they need no more formula?

Thanks so much for all the help along the way-it's much appreciated by me, my husband, and our little baby bird. :0)

God Bless,
Jenny.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Jenny,

Once they are about a month old and drink on their own, they can completely go on a seed diet. Some youngsters are a little earlier than others, especially when they watch their parents eat. They learn from watching. Then there are some youngsters who are a little later, they are just more needy.

I'm going to go find your original thread, so we have the history of this bird.

Your new thread is now merged with the original


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

If the baby is also eating seed on it's own it could be a little older than two weeks. Also from your description he sounds to be about three weeks old
Anyways, if he is eating seed, you could start reducing the frecvency of the formula feedings and let him eat more seeds. You can give him formula only in the evening and let him peck the seeds throughout the day.
At this point he can also use some grit.
Once he is a "good" seed eater you can stop the formula feedings all together. I like to weight the babies daily, that tells me if they get enough food.

If you want to keep the bird as a pet, then holding him will make him more tame. If you intend to release him, then less interaction is better.

Reti


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Anyone have advive on when to move him to new loft?*

We are intending to keep this one as a pet. He will be an indoor, spoiled pigeon. (ie-mine.) My husband has a "portable loft" and he wants to put him in it. The loft and the bird will stay inside. He is currently in a picnic basket with hay on the bottom. When should we move him to the "portable loft"???

Thanks.
Jenny.


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Ps...*

I looked at the "Day to day pictures of baby pigeon development"-and it looks like according to those pics on that page-that the bird is about 2 weeks -maybe a lil over 2 weeks. 

The bird's name is Lucy-even if it's a boy. It just seems to fit. If it turns out to be a boy, we will have to change the song from "A Boy Named Sue", to "A Boy Named Lucy".

Pray lucy lives.

Jenny.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny, 

Your Bird will be happy to eat formula of various kids from the hollow back of a regular Baby Nipple, which is far safer and easier and happier for you both than trying to syringe the food into his beak and so on.

If you like, e-mail me off site from your regular e-mail, and I will send you some info on how to do it.

[email protected]


Of course, if they are eating Seeds and Grit on their own, let them do so but watch out they do not over stuff themselves...and continue to offer to hand feed formula for another two or three weeks even if it is just once a day, and eventually once every other day. Eventually the Bird will naturally wean itself, but in the meantime, if they enjoy eating from the nipple and if they like the formula, they will have had a chance to enjoy that and be additionally nourished from it.

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Jenny, just to put my 2 cents in here. If the baby is only 2 or so weeks old, you probably should feed him at least 2xday and weigh him every day, if possible. It may appear he is eating seed but in fact he may be playing with them. I can't ever remember seeing one of ours eat on their own at that age. My philosophy has always been if he is still squealing/squeeking to feed him 3xday, about 20-25 cc, of course, making sure his crop is down before each feeding. You're setting the foundation for his future growth so it is important that he gets the proper nutrition. They're really funny in that they'll let you know when they don't want to be fed anymore so you just start tapering off the feeding.

As to the loft, you didn't mention how large it is but if it isn't too large I see no reason he couldn't be moved into it. Also, baby pigeons love a little bed. We make very simple ones, just cut a cardboard canned drink case (the kind that holds, I think 24) in half, slide one half into the other half, tape securely, put some shavings, or even a soft cloth in the bottom , topped with a paper 
towel and watch how much he uses it. You can put seed and water bowls in the loft so he'll have access to them.

You will really enjoy Lucy as she/he grows and don't worry about the name - I rarely get the sexes right and they could care less.  maggie


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*stressed again*

Hi there all,
Once again thanks for all the support. Lucy seems not to want to eat the formula and is eating a lil seed from time to time. Her appetite has seemed to go down compared to the last two days. I don't know if she is leveling out now because she was so hungry before. And doesn't need to eat as much or she is having a problem. She is pooping a lot and the poops are quite formed-looks like lil brown birdie logs. Is this normal???

Could the consistency of the poops be because I have fed her too much??? Should I give her pedialyte untill her appetite comes back??? Her crop seems to be flat but she is not hungry.

I have to wait until Thursday until the only vet in town that deals with birds sees her.

Please help. I want this bird to live. I am quite attached.

Thank you.
Jenny.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny, 


Should be making about 40 to 50 Raisen sized, Raisen shaped poops-a-day ( 24 hours ) and they should be brown-and-white, or green/brown-and-white.

They should be moist eough to BE 'moist' yet firm enough to easily pick up i one's fingers after a moment or two. If somethig scares them they can poop out water and little 'ropes' and so on...

Normally at this age they will STUFF themselves silly and one must watch them so they do not overdo it with their new found skills of Seed Pecking...

See http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11943 for what a "full" (Parent fed) crop looks like ( ! Lol...) in the current thread by kwickkordead on the two youngsters in his eves...note the little 'smile' too...

I seldom feed mine THAT full..! Yeeeeesh, but I feed them often and like about 2/3rds full or so...

Have fun!

 


Oh - P.S.

Now, what are you feeding her as for 'formula'?

And, are you serving it "body Temperature" and of the consistancy of a Milkshake or so?

...does she eat standing on her own with you holding the food source for her? Or?

How are you feeding her?

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Lucy...AKA..."hog-licious"*

Ok. Lucy has her appetite again. I feel like I did when I had my first son- a new mother. When my first son was born, any time he would blink the wrong way I felt like calling an ambulance, the police, the national guard, etc.

I feel this way again-everytime the bird looks the wrong way I want call the DR. But, I am not.

Lucy is eating and eating. Her crop does not nearly get that big as in the pic in the link. 

I am still feeding her with a syringe. It's the only way she'll take it. For whatever reason-she seems to like it. I open her mouth up, put the syringe in their and she gulps it down.

I tried cutting a syringe, putting a cloth over the end, and feeding her that way-she hated it. 

The tube down the throat-yeah right-she did not care for that at all.

Phil-thank you so much for the email. I tried doing the "nipple thing" and and I messed up 2 nipples doing it that way. Do you all have any pics of what the nipple should look like? I'm just not getting it. (sorry)

My husband thinks she is growing. I see her all the time-so it hard for me to notice. 

One weird thing I noticed is that on the towel that I put down for her to nest on-there was a lot of "dandruff". What is that? 

She is definatly eating seed-not just playing with it. She only eats it out of my hand though. 

Also, we added grit to her diet. We mixed it in with her food. My husband also put oyster shells in there too. Is this OK?

She is grooming herself and seems to be getting used to us-me, my husband, and my two very loud boys-both under 5.

Should I feed her more than 20 cc's if she still acts hungry?

Oh, and the formula is called "kaytee exact", I think. 

Thanks again for all the support through this. I would love to see Lucy grow up to be an adult bird and maybe we'll find her a mate and have lil Lucy's...  

God Bless you all.
Jenny.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Jenny,

you are doing a wonderful job with Lucy.

The grit and oyster shells are prefered to be given in separate bowls, not mixed with the food cause they can overeat on it.
By putting it separate they will eat only as much as they need.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Jenny, sounds like Lucy is doing well. You are really lucky she is eating on her own. The dandruff looking stuff which I call "dander" occurs when their feathers are coming in and the "shell" around the feathers starts breaking down. You will probably see a lot of that but it is nothing to be concerned about except it flies all over the place. I just use a dampened paper towel on surfaces when I let ours out to fly. Some folks can get an allergy from the dander so I would try not to disturb it too much when cleaning her cage. 

About the feeding, if she is eating on her own you may want to reduce her feeding to night time only and monitor her crop and weight. 20-25 cc probably will be enough. We also use Kaytee Exact.

maggie


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

Each of ours weaned themselves at different times. Our first - Stewie - was raised on softened cat food for the first couple weeks by the person who rescued him before we adopted him. We switched him over to softened bird pellets, then added seeds and reduced the amount of pellets over the course of a few weeks.

His mate - Pizzie - was about the same age when we rescued a few weeks after we adopted Stewie. She was raised by other piegoens so she was almost immediately ready for a seed diet.

They had a baby so we now have a "squeaker" - Soupy - (about 4-5 weeks old) who's in the cage with her mom and dad. Even though she eats seed on her own, mom and dad still spoil her occasioanlly and feed her. Seems like yours is taking the same course, only you're his "mom"


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny,


Here is a link to an image I made 5 weeks ago when showing some Baby Doves...

Baby and youngster Doves of course are quite small compared to our Pigeons.

http://community.webshots.com/mypho...D=415428974&photoID=415435632&security=ukanjD

For the very small Beaks, I use just the 5/8ths inch or so of cut-off end of a Nipple, and for others, the whole Nipple sans it's 'rim' or 'flange'. The 'flange' is the projecting rim that would keep it secured in the end of a Baby Bottle when the cap is screwed on, and it just gets in the way for feeding Babys so I cut it off with scizzors leaving the basic funnel shape.

One of the Baby Doves is peering over the side of my hand there in the image...

Sounds like your method is working well, with your syringe into their Beak..!

I do wish to encourage you to add small whole Seeds by now, which is what the Bird should be having as formula, with some KT to make a slurry with the small Seeds...and also adding other nutrients.

Normally at this age they would be being fed all Seeds with some grit and occasional inclusions of tender greens, and Water, by their parents.

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny, all...

Sorry, I posted a lik that was not right...

Now, for the corrected link ..!



http://community.webshots.com/album/415428974tUIcuK


Lemme know if this one works allrighty...?

Should show general Baby Dove images, and one image is me holding two Nipples in the palm of my hand with a Baby Dove overlooking the matter wondering "...is this guy gunna get on with the Chow or not???!!!!!"


Lol...  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Lucy Update*

Hi there all,
Brought Lucy to the vet. It was a good experience. The vet was really infto birds-meaning she really likes them. She said she was not an expert on birds, but knows a fair amount about them. 

Anyway, Lucy looked healthy for the most part except she said that she seemed a lil dehydrated. Also, she MIGHT have "cropstasis"??? I fed her right before we went to the vet - so the vet said that it wasn't clear whether Lucy had it or not. What exactly is cropstasis and what can I do about it?

They are going to culture her poop and test her for whatever diseases that might be.

Will write more later when I have more time. Any info on "cropstasis" would be appreciated.

Thanks-
Jenny.


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*More info about Lucy*

Hi there,
Lucy seems to be doing well. I gave her some pedialyte today and she drank a lot of it up. She drank it out of the nipple method that Phil wrote about. She will not touch the bird formula out of the nipple. I have to give it to her through a syringe in her mouth. 

It almost seems she likes the taste of the (fruit punch flavored) pedialyte as oppossed to the formula. She seems like she doesn't care for the flavor of the bird formula. Any ideas on that?

Thanks-
Jenny.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny, 

In practice, so far as I know, 'Cropstasis' is another term for 'slow Crop' or where the Crop is not emptying it's contents in a timely way to their stomach for digestions...

Candidiosis is often implicated in these situations, or may result from them, but initially, the slow Crop may result from bruising or generalized trauma, from the Bird being fed when the Bird was not warm enough or subsequent chills after eating, or maybe dehydration or combinations of any of these acting in concert.


What I have been pleased with in these occasions to ammend a slow Crop,which I learned here on our forum, is to add to one gallon of Good Water, some one-and-a-half to two Tablespoons and not more, of Raw, Apple Cider Vinegar, and use that for their drinking Water and formula mixing Water.

Now, a slow Crop will tend to take the spark out of their eating enthusiasms sometimes...and make them relatively subdued.

If it was me, I'd massage their Crop gently off and on through out the day, and of course make up that Gallon of Vinegar water for their drinking...not feed them untill I can tell that their Crop HAS emptied nicely...or not feed them for a day or two anyway, but of course let them drink off and on as they are going to be needing that Vinegar Water both for it's specific benifits to discourage and eliminate the possible Candida, and for hydration...

Then, start feeding them again but certainly for a bird of 14 days or more, they can have a lot more 'solid' food than the powder and water stuff, so I'd mix "some" maybe 20 percent or so of K-T with fresh ground Seeds and small whole Seeds so lots of fiber is in the formula, and add the stuff I mentioned off site to it...

...and feed them (let them eat, from the Nipple of course, ) small meals four or five times a day and keep an eye on the Crop...

Their liquidy food mixes of course MUSST be about body temperature and NOT made to be so in a microwave, but rather, warmed and stirred to be of even warmth, in a cup, in a pan of hot water...

It might take four or five or six days before their Crop is acting right again, so, maybe for that matter, see about making really 'thin' Nutrical based soups with just some way reduced amount of powder formula stuff in it, but DO add to it various powdered "Nekton-T", Pro-Biotics and Chlorella, some finely sifted fresh ground Berries and Seeds but keep it way thin and watery for now, for a day or two and see how the Crop starts behaving and emptying...

Keep them warm...

Encourage activity and social forays off and on...

One liability of the use of only powdered off the shelf formula mixes IS Candida and Slow Crop, since the stuff tends to gob up and make a big slug of semi solidified thick semi-hydrated goo in their Crop, which SEEDS and fresh SEED MEAL does not do.

Their parents do not feed them powdered goo that thickens into a slimey wad...and they never confront a slow Crop in their Babys...Lol...

Seeds, really, small whole Seeds and Grit...with the other nicities added, as soon as that Crop starts to come around, is what I'd go for...guiding their little Beak with my finger tips on it's sides, into a little deep Seed dish...and let them gobble that way...

Most of my two week olds or so have taken to this nicely right away, whether they loved the 'Nipple' chow or not, no one I can remember did NOT love it, so...

Some of this must be a matter of practice, gently pinching the top area of the nipple so it is against their Beak sides for the first several times...gently squeezeing it also once they are started, from the bottom in rythmic ways against their Beak sides that way...

If the Bird starts to eat, then pauses...waiting for something...THAT may be what he is waiting for...and if it is not there, he may elect not to eat by this method...as well as that your Bird is not feeling well and may be more likely not to eat right now from it.

Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*(surrogate) Momma Bird in our house-issues*

Hi there all,
My husband got a pigeon from his loft that is the least tame, but *most motherly[/I*_]. She has the most experience raising birds. We put the two birds together in the "mini loft" and they are keeping there distance from one another. 

The "mini loft" is in our living room. Our main living space. I have two LOUD and WILD boys. They generally leave the birds alone but like to look at them. 

My husband is afraid that the mama pigeon (that came from a quiet bird loft) is freaking out and will not eat/drink because of the enviroment change. She went from a quiet loft with other pigeons to a living room with humans with Constant noise. Please share your thoughts with me on this. Will the mama pigeon adjust?


Thanks.

Jenny._


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

It might be less traumatic for mama pigeon if you could move them to a quieter location out of the traffic pattern. Are you including any probiotics in the baby's food?


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## mainesgem (Sep 12, 2005)

*Please see this*

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11985


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Jenny, 


Indoor settings need to be pretty quiet and 'safe' feeling for newto-the-scene adult Birds...

Babys are more forgiveing if the right elements are there for them as far as people-things and noise and commotion and so on...but even for them, best if quiet and serene when possible. Later, they will need to be keen about not being complaiscent about such things to survive in the feral worlds...so an adaptation to noise and commotion being intimate would later get them into perils if not fled from.

Your little one should do fine to be in the company of othe Pigeon youngsters and young adults...from whom it will soon learn to peck by seeing them do it and so on...

Good going...!

I know you went through a lot with this one..!

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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