# What colors could I get from these birds???



## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

I have a beginning understanding of genetics in general, but not so much in pigeons... 

so...

1) If I bred a Dark Check Cock to an Ash Red Hen 
(darkcheck sire= homozygous Tiger Grizzle) 
(darkcheck dam= blue check {lineage unknown} )

2) And if I bred a Tortishell Cock to a Recessive Yellow
(tort sire= same sire as darkcheck)
(tort dam= same dam as darkcheck)

*note* I dont know the lineage of the hens the cock birds would be mated to...

[ Is there any way I could potentially get red birds out of the first cross? ]

ANY HELP WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED
Thanks


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

I keep forgetting what tortoiseshell is.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The first pair will produce all ash red cocks that will all carry blue, All the hens will be blue. Half or all will be tiger grizzle but I would guess the hen is het, if this is the case half the young will be grizzled and half not. So In short, yes you can breed reds in the first mating. The first cock bird you breed from this pair will be red.

Henk - Tortieshell is Blue T pattern with Kite bronze, Het grizzle and usually het rec red with multiple dirty genes.

This pairing is impossible to predict as we do not know what the recessive yellow hen carries but you will get some grizzles and some blues for sure.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you very much!!!  also I have another question concerning white birds...

White X Recessive Yellow

Can you get a splashed or pied bird out of this pairing?
like yellow grizzle??? or not?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

White (rec. white) mated to rec. yellow would be the most unpredictable combo without knowing their pedigree because both are rec. traits therefor they both are hiding other unknown colors.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

The hen I picked out ended up bieng a solid recessive red and she paired up with the tortishell above ( sire brownish red tiger grizzle, dam blue check ) and the hen is COMPLETELY RED... Could I still potentially get a red from this or not???
And yes I know the hen would be technically recessive and is hiding something else... And I don't know her lineage at all but the guy did have a ton of reds...


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

In reference to your white x rec. yellow question.

If the rec. white parent carries rec. red or yellow and one of the parents carries grizzle it is possible to produce red or yellow splash babies. However, it has been my experience that spread must also be present with common grizzle for it to give a splash expression on rec. red and yellow. Common grizzle w/o spread tends to only whiten the base and shafts of the flight and tail feathers. Tiger grizzle will splash a rec. red or yellow w/o spread.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Painted Skies Loft said:


> The hen I picked out ended up bieng a solid recessive red and she paired up with the tortishell above ( sire brownish red tiger grizzle, dam blue check ) and the hen is COMPLETELY RED... Could I still potentially get a red from this or not???
> And yes I know the hen would be technically recessive and is hiding something else... And I don't know her lineage at all but the guy did have a ton of reds...


Could I get any reds from this? though... they just hatched one baby today with the other egg pipping... the one that hatched has a brown beak if this helps...


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

It depends if her mate is carrying recessive red or not. If he is than about half thier babies will be recessive red, if not than none of them will. You could in the future pair one of their sons back to her. BTW recessive reds usually have very light beaks at hatching.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Rec. red babies have a light horn colored beak with a small reddish brown spot at the tip of their upper mandible.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks 2nd baby has a light pink colored beak... 1st baby has a light pink beak except for a brown spot on the tip of its upper mandible... Just thought I would give an update... BTW the grandfather (dads side) has a liver brownish red color under his grizzle... Could he potentially carry rec. red?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Yes, the grandfather probably carries rec. red because the brownish red under the grizzle is likely kite bronze, which is common on birds carrying rec. red.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Yeahhh... cool beans...


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

The babies are all feathered in now the first is a solid dark check with red lacing on its breast... And the second is some kind of check but it has red lacing throughout its body (badge with white flights)... Will they just end up moulting into checks with no red? Or will they keep their current pattern... I just cannot identify what kind of check the second will be ( it's either Dark or Blue)


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Post some pics if you can.


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