# Another beginner question :)



## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Just a quick question from a beginner to the pros.

Should I start out with buying/acquiring young birds? or old birds (breeders) and breed the youngsters from them? Is it okay if I start out with 4 young birds and 1 pair of breeders?

I'm not looking to race for a while, just looking to start out first and get comfortable.

Thanks in advance and God Bless 

Kevin


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kevin said:


> Just a quick question from a beginner to the pros.
> 
> Should I start out with buying/acquiring young birds or old birds (breeders) and breed the youngsters from them? Is it okay to start with 4 young birds and 1 pair of breeders?
> 
> ...


Hello Kevin,

As a practical matter, you are at this point really talking about having some "pet" pigeons. In which case, there would be an advantage to buying say 30 day old pigeons, and train them to your loft. That way you can let them out to fly around once in awhile. Then you call them in, like you would a dog, and they fly back in, and it's a lot of fun watching them fly. If you buy breeders, they can never safely be allowed outside the loft, cause they will be gone.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Thanks Warren.

Any other suggestions? I'm building my loft in about a week or so, and I am very excited.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Kevin - Glad to hear you're building your loft soon! Keep us posted bro...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I agree with Warren. Go with the young birds and keep no prisoners........
That's easier said than done if you start racing. There will always be that "one" that someone has for sell or wants to give you and you just can't say no, and wha la.....now you've got a prisoner OR you have the one bird that flys it's butt off for you and you want move it to the breeder loft and never ever take a chance of loosing it and again......you've got a prisoner and if you have one prisoner, you might as well have a dozen, or two........LOL
But......just to start and play with.........young young young is the way to go.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kevin said:


> Thanks Warren.
> 
> Any other suggestions? I'm building my loft in about a week or so, and I am very excited.


Most of all, make this whole process fun, and not stressful. 

Some of us here, are well known "Fanatic's", who enjoy the "Stress" of Competition. And many others approach this simply as a fun, stress relieving past time. And there are loads of fanciers somewhere in between. 

Well you could always go back and research a few dozen topics which have been brought up and discussed here over the years. Sometimes, about every 20 posts or so of mine, I even write something which could actually help someone....... 

And the one issue I have always suggested, is to try to find someone who has an interest in your pigeon success, actually knows a little something about pigeons. The ideal situation, would be a veteran pigeon keeper, who is willing to mentor you. This "sport" or past time, is an art form. If you develop a real passion for it, the best you could do, would be to have an 8th Degree Grand Master, offer you an apprenticeship. 

After that, would be some good books, some tapes, or DVD's are popular now, and then of course this site, and the hundreds of threads. The challenge, with all this information going into your head, you could suffer from "Information Overload". And that is where a mentor or two, would be helpful to bounce some things off once in awhile.

And most of all again, make it fun. When I got back into pigeons in 2002, I must have spent 8 or more hours a day, researching pigeons. Much of it became stressful at times, because it can be frustrating, when you are trying to find answers, when you are passionate about the subject. 

So pace yourself, while you embark on one of the most facinating journeys you may ever take !


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

I have to agree on the 'Fanatics' part. I haven't even started, and I'm already going crazy due to the thrill and excitement that I'm about to encounter. LOL!

I will most definitely try my best to look for a mentor. It's going to be tough, because I don't know any pigeon enthusiasts near my location.

You guys have helped me a lot within the past couple of weeks I have been here. I learned a lot and have printed a lot of helpful things I found on the forums.

Thanks Warren

God Bless

Kevin


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## bcr1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Warren that is great advice. I too am just starting out and plan to take it slow and simple. I have read a lot of the threads on here and have learned a lot of very good information. I would like to thank you and everyone else for your help and encouragement. It is pretty cool how everyone is always excited about everyone elses birds and successes.
Good luck Kevin. It is also nice to have other beginners on here too that may have other questions that I don't think of.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Thanks bcr, best of luck to you too.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Thanks Warren.
> 
> Any other suggestions? I'm building my loft in about a week or so, and I am very excited.


OK, first how many birds you plan on having? Size does matter.

Two, start with young birds because you only need one loft, one section, and do not need to worry about prisoners excaping and getting lost. 

Three, build your loft where you can reach every spot. do not want the birds to keep from getting caught when the time comes. 

Four, as you build think of cleaning poop. Every horizonal surface will get poop, make it as easy to scrape as possible.

Five, Front should face south, birds need sun.

Six, The drop trap is the best, the birds go in and out the same hole. Open the trap to let them out, close it and they can only come in. Makes trap training easier.

Seven, Birds need fresh air. so have good vents, but drafts and wetness can kill.

Last, Start looking in the loft section for ideas and ask, people here are a great help.

Good Luck and wellcome aboard,
Tony


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Hey Tony, thanks for the suggestions.

Right now, I'm only looking to get a maximum of 6 - 8 birds. For now, I am only going to start off with a kit box, that is all I can afford since I am only 17 and do not have a job yet.

Something like this, but a little different: 
http://pinoypigeonclub.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=6
http://pinoypigeonclub.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=5

Now, I was told that this was built to hold 20 homers. I believe that is way too overcrowded (way, way too overcrowded), I think that 8 homers would still be pushing it but I'm pretty sure that they will do fine?

Here's my version of the kitbox:
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5067/kitbox.jpg

Another question, when I purchase my young birds, can I start trap training them right away?

Kevin


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kevin, glad to hear about your entry into pigeons. I live about 140 miles north of you, and have started with just 7 young birds, but lost one, now down to 6. Mine are just about old enough to breed, and I would be more than happy to donate some youngsters to you in maybe a month or two, if that works for your time frame. I deliver to our Walmart store in Foothill Ranch tuesday through saturday, and could meet you at our store in Valencia if it works out, and if you are interested.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

bbc, I can't refuse on that wonderful offer. I'll try my best to work things out.

Thanks


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Hey Tony, thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> 
> Another question, when I purchase my young birds, can I start trap training them right away?
> ...


Depends on the age, get them as close to thirty days old as you can. Then let them settle in your loft about a month. then late in the day open the loft and let them come out when they are ready. When you first start brand new birds, train slowly. When you have older birds that know, the young ones pick up quicker.

Good Luck,
tony


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Kevin

If you will race in the future, I would only make one suggestion. Start with a few quality birds now. If you just take every pigeon people give you, you will end up with a loft of mediocre birds. Find say 10 youngsters from someone that wins in your area. Fly them around the house, and work on getting three quality pair out of the 10. You will most likely loose a few. Then stock your loft from those birds. Many of us throw birds in the loft, end up with 50 birds, none of which have any chance of winning a race. Then what? Just something to think about. 

Randy


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Kevin
> 
> If you will race in the future, I would only make one suggestion. Start with a few quality birds now. If you just take every pigeon people give you, you will end up with a loft of mediocre birds. Find say 10 youngsters from someone that wins in your area. Fly them around the house, and work on getting three quality pair out of the 10. You will most likely loose a few. Then stock your loft from those birds. Many of us throw birds in the loft, end up with 50 birds, none of which have any chance of winning a race. Then what? Just something to think about.
> 
> Randy


Okay, hopefully everything goes well.

Thanks


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't know if my birds are "mediocre" or not. I purchased them from the best pairs that skylakelake sions loft in Chico, CA has from Dr Mike Brown. He lists his results on his website, and I was pretty impressed. it is www.skylakesions.com.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

You can never go wrong with sions. I heard that their performance is outstanding.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree that you should start with higher quality pigeons.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I raised sions when I was a kid. They are a good long distance bird. I have a friend in Grand Junction that has an 18 year old Sion cock.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Since yesterday I was reading about sions and boy am I hooked on them. They look so beautiful. How much do these birds usually cost?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I purchased 6 young birds from different pairs which I chose, and they were $1,410 delivered to my home. He threw in a 7th one for free because he was trying to pick 3 cocks, and 3 hens. He wasn't too sure about the younger ones, so that is why he gave me the 7th bird for nothing. He is a very nice guy, who used to live in Bakersfield, CA about 25 years ago, which is 50 miles south of me. He has a beautiful loft and birds, and is one very busy guy. He is a surgeon, but makes time for racing and showing his birds.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Are there any other breeds/bloodline are out there that I can also start out with besides sions (Please name a few) ?Something decent, but not pricey. I'm not really familiar with breeds and bloodlines.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Of course. There are alot of strains and prices. Good luck on your quest. If you can locate a club close to you, I am sure you will find a member who does well who would give you an extremely good deal on young birds to get you started, maybe even donate them to you.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Does anyone have any suggestions on what strain besides sions? Just not too pricey.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

If I had to do it all over again, I'd invest a large amount in a proven breeder cock that can breed birds to win at all distances.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Smith Family Loft has EXCEPTIONAL birds. His name is Warren, and he is on this site frequently. In fact, he is the moderator. I believe it was last year or the year before that he won the one loft Flamingo Classic Race in Florida. I looked at the inventory of birds which were in that race, and he was competing with the best in the US. He also just won a bird in a huge auction in Europe from Ludo Claussen, who is considered maybe the top master of pigeon racing in the world! He sells young birds, and you absolutely could not go wrong with his birds. Before I forget, there are other fanciers on this site who have had great success also. I had to add that as to not offend anyone.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

I will talk to him later when he gets on. He's a great guy, he gave me a lot of pointers and advice to get me started.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

bbcdon said:


> Smith Family Loft has EXCEPTIONAL birds. His name is Warren, and he is on this site frequently. In fact, he is the moderator. I believe it was last year or the year before that he won the one loft Flamingo Classic Race in Florida. I looked at the inventory of birds which were in that race, and he was competing with the best in the US. He also just won a bird in a huge auction in Europe from Ludo Claussen, who is considered maybe the top master of pigeon racing in the world! He sells young birds, and you absolutely could not go wrong with his birds. Before I forget, there are other fanciers on this site who have had great success also. I had to add that as to not offend anyone.




OK...bbcdon,

Thank you for your kind words. But, you are making me blush ! 

Now, where do I send the check ? 

Actually, I discontinued the practice of making YB Kit's available. The demands of local racing, One Loft Races, and mentoring new guys in my club, makes that no longer possible. If someone insists they simply can't live without one of my birds, and they have the coins, then I will listen. But, I'm not actively seeking clients. But, I do appreciate your vote of confidence.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I give credit where it is due. You have done a fantastic job in the sport, and I am sure you will continue to do so. You didn't have to mention the check, I wanted to keep that quiet. Don't blush, just accept your accolades, Don.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Hey guys, back again. Finally finished building my kit box. Took me about a day and a half but it's all good now. I got my birds this afternoon, I got 3 young birds and 1 pair of breeders. The guy I got it from lives about 2 miles away, so keeping prisoners wouldn't be such a pain in the neck. 

I was wondering how I should measure my feed per bird?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Glad to hear about your new birds. Good luck!


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Thanks! I'm gonna start trap training tomorrow. The yb's are about 3 - 4 1/2 weeks old, so I better get to training =]


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I use a cup with a measuring scale on it. It shows ounces and quart on the side. I usually start with 1 ounce per bird. I add more if they fly longer or if the weather is cold. 

Congrats on the birds. Good luck in training them. Have they associated food sound yet? It is hard to trap-train a bird when it doesn't know why it is trying to get inside for. I usually start food training first, then trap training. So they trap because they want to eat. I just shoved them in the trap entrance several times while whistling and offering foods. Three tries in 3 days trains them right away.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Oh okay, I will do that tomorrow.
How long does it usually take for a pair to settle and start laying eggs?


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