# My pigeon is too skinny



## SkyofAngels

When I got my birds a few weeks ago they were on the thin side since then IO have been feeding them twice a day a mixture of turkey feed and seed with the occasional treat of peas. All but one of the birds have thrived and are looking great. I went away for a week and my sister has been caring for them when I returned this morning I noticed one of my birds is very skinny when I held it I was shocked at the fact that it felt so lite and that its chest bone stuck out. I thought that perhaps its friends were being bullies and keeping it from the food dish so I seperated it and put it with a bowl of food and it just picked at it for a second maybe ate two or three pieces and walked away and wasn't interested. I don't know what to do I am new to pigeons and I am scared for my bird. It let me pick it up which is strange because usually it flys around like crazy and make sme chase it and then when I was holding it it just sat there on one hand and didn't move I am worried its going to die please help. I can't really afford to bring it to the vet right now but I will if necessary


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## Pidgey

Where in Connecticut are you?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

I ask because given the circumstances, it might be possible for you to connect with Cricket for medications and treatment:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=5077

...since she's in your area.

It could be worms, coccidiosis, canker (probably unseen but have you looked inside the beak for yellow cheesy buttons?) or some other infection. That said, it sounds like the bird's gone "anorectic" (which they do a lot when they're really sick) and will need supplemental heat and even forced feedings, besides medications.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

It's good that the bird is isolated, add a heating pad on low or a heat lamp
to this bird's set up and hand feed the bird. You can soak puppy chow,
and hand feed this to the bird, you can also do the bird burrito if necessary.
Open the mouth and see if you notice any pronounced odor there or to this
bird's droppings. Also check inside the mouth for any abnormal coloring or growths. Post a pic of the droppings if you can. Do you have any meds
on hand?

fp


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## Pidgey

Oh, I see that Killingworth is about 30 miles from West Haven, which you're ten minutes from (which way?). Cricket might really be a viable option, depending.

Pidgey


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## SkyofAngels

Thank you for the quick response. I have the bird seperate with a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel. I looked in its mouth and didn't see anything but I don't have good eyesight I will have my husband check when he gets home. I am unsure about the poops because it was with a group of birds and I don't know which poops are his(or hers) but now that I have it seperate we will know no poops yet but I will keep checking and will post as soon as we have one. I gave it a dacoxine tablet it says it treats coccidiosis, canker, e coli, and paratyphoid. I will continue that for a week like it says on the box. I put a bowl of water in there and it is drinking well. I also put a bowl of food and a bowl of thawed frozen peas I was hoping that would seem appealing. Is there anything else I should get or do? Any other meds I can pick up? I have a few pet stores right near me for emergency meds and there is a pigeon supply store about an hour away that I order from. I can go there or I usually have them ship things and I get it by noon the next day if it can wait that long.


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## SkyofAngels

I will get some puppy chow as soon as my husband gets home(I don't drive) any particular brand that is best or is wet dog food better? My neighbor has cat food that I could get right now would that work?


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## Skyeking

How old are the birds?

Sometimes if they are young they just need to regenerate and multiply some good gut bacteria. How about adding some probiotics or kefir/yogurt to the diet first, nothing like it to put some weight on. You may have to hand feed for a bit until they start to eat well on their own.


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## SkyofAngels

They are aprox. 8-9 weeks old. It did have a poop it was like a small puddle of white with a dark green coil. The bird has been drinking alot it has picked at its food some mostly the peas alittle not much but it gives me hope. It better its crop is fuller and it is more active.


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## Maggie-NC

Hi Kristen, I know it is worrying you having this little one lose weight. Do you have scales that weigh by the gram? That would really help to weigh it each day to see if it is gaining or losing weight. Safflour seed (small solid white seed) are very good for helping them put on weight. Also, the cat food would be just fine. Soak it in hot water until it softens but isn't mushy, let it cool and break off small pieces, open his beak and push the piece to the back of the throat - past the air hole - and let it swallow.

Good luck.

BTW. don't give it any canned dog/cat food - only the dry (that has been soaked). I'm thinking he is still so young he hasn't quite gotten the hang of eating on his own.


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## warriec

I think force feeding with a high protein seed such as green grams should help him recover fast.


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## SkyofAngels

*I'm Exhausted*

I just spent the past three hours feeding the bird. It was really fighting me thing went a lot faster when I wrapped it in a towel. Then I checked all my birds for canker and treated them with the dacoxine tabs. I got about two teaspoons of food in it. Is that a good amount I probably could have done more but I was afraid to overfeed. I am covered in soggy meow mix. How often should I feed the bird? Hopefully not as often as my three month old son I was up nursing him all night. Phew babies are hard. I am going to go take a nap.


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## Pidgey

That's why a lot of us tube-feed with Kaytee in such circumstances as it only takes about 5 minutes or less from mixing it up to washing the tube-feeding equipment when you're done. Here's a thread with various ways shown and also some links to easily obtainable equipment:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16235

Pidgey


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## SkyofAngels

Its not working. the bird is getting thinner, sitting still eyes closed and the feathers on its head are always fluffed up. I have given it the canker meds I have fed it. I don't know what to do anymore. What really scared me is that another bird knocked into this one and it just kinda swayed like it was out of it. I don't want the bird to die I am worried. I think I am going to put in a box with a warm water bottle. hopefully that will help. What else can I do?


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## Charis

It is time for an Avian Veterinarian. It could be so many things and by the time we explore them, it could be too late.
If the bird has an empty crop, by all means hand feed it. If it's not eating, it may not be drinking either. Can you tell if it has been drinking? 
It sound really weak and you probably don't have much time to figure it out.


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## feralpigeon

How many times a day do you assist the bird in feedings?

What meds do you have on hand and is Dacoxine the only medication that
you have given this bird?

fp


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## TAWhatley

I think it might be a good idea to get some rehydration fluid into this bird and provide it with supplemental heat in the form of a heating pad or low wattage bulb in a setup where it can move away or off the heat if wants to. 

Terry


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## SkyofAngels

I force feed it twice daily and I bring it oput and have it eat out of its own bowl two more times a day. How often should I feed it? How much at each feeding? When I let it eat by itself it kinda throws the seeds around without really eating any. What fluids should I give it?


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## Pixy

Maybe a bad mite infestation.


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## TAWhatley

SkyofAngels said:


> I force feed it twice daily and I bring it oput and have it eat out of its own bowl two more times a day. How often should I feed it? How much at each feeding? When I let it eat by itself it kinda throws the seeds around without really eating any. What fluids should I give it?


If you feel the crop of the bird right now can you please post approximately how much seed and fluid you feel in there? If there is close to nothing in the crop, then I would definitely give some rehydration fluid (about 5 ml/cc) and let that pass through the system and see if the bird rallies a bit. Rehydration fluid can be unflavored Pedialyte (or the store brand of same) or just water with a pinch of sugar and salt added. Please check the crop and post back about that while I get the link for homemade rehydration fluid .. there is a recent one with an extra ingredient or two that would be excellent.

Terry


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## feralpigeon

Can you post a picture of the droppings?

fp


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## TAWhatley

*Rehydration Fluid*

Here is our standard "lifesaving" thread which includes how to make a simple rehydration solution: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7825

And this is a bit more involved rehydration solution.

The following from user, Cyro51 (Cynthia) and quoted from a source noted in her post to the board:

_It is possible to mix your own equivalent oral rehydrating salts by using the following ingredients:

7g sodium chloride
5g sodium bicarbonate
3g potassium chloride
40g glucose
2 litres water

The solution must be mixed thoroughly and discarded after 24 hours_

Terry


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## Charis

SkyofAngels said:


> I force feed it twice daily and I bring it oput and have it eat out of its own bowl two more times a day. How often should I feed it? How much at each feeding? When I let it eat by itself it kinda throws the seeds around without really eating any. What fluids should I give it?


Does the bird have food and water available all the time?


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## SkyofAngels

Crop feels like a water balloon. I don't feel seed. I am going to feed it now.
Tha birds always have fresh clean water and they are fed twice a day. They eat turkey pellets, seed from the pigeon supply store, and sometimes peas thawed.


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## SkyofAngels

Also the past three days they have had plain yogurt. I don't know how to post pics. The droppings are watery white and then a little dark green coil. The color seems normal but like I said they are on the watery side.


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## TAWhatley

Kristen,

If the crop is so full it feels like a water balloon, please don't give it anything more just now. We have to wait for the crop to empty out. Let's get the bird into/onto a warm place and let it be for now. 

If the other members who are on right now think some meds should be given, that would be fine, but I don't know what you have other than the Dacoxine, and I don't think you need to give that right now .. could be wrong .. hopefully the others participating in this thread are still around.

We're kind of at the point now where we are killing this bird with our kindness .. meaning too much attention and not accomplishing much that will really help.

Terry


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## TAWhatley

SkyofAngels said:


> Also the past three days they have had plain yogurt. I don't know how to post pics. The droppings are watery white and then a little dark green coil. The color seems normal but like I said they are on the watery side.


You can e-mail the pics to me at [email protected], and I will get them posted for you.

Terry


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## Charis

This is the rehabber list and one in your state. She might know of an Avian vet.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8817et in your area.


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## SkyofAngels

Thank you all so much. Right now the bird is in a box in my kitchen it has fresh water available and a warm water bottle wrapped in a towel. I also put one of my shirts in there to keep it warm, I have a thermometer right near the box it reads 73 degrees so it is comfortable and I am going leave it alone right now and pray that it gets better. Its one in the morning and I have to take care of my newborn son and two year old in the morning so I am going to try and get an hours sleep. I have my alarm set to wake up every hour to check on it and like I said I stay home with the kids so that is good cause I won't have to leave the bird. 
Thank you all for the help


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## Whitefeather

SkyofAngels said:


> *Right now the bird is in a box in my kitchen it has fresh water available* and a warm water bottle wrapped in a towel.
> Thank you all for the help


I would suggest moving the bird out of the kitchen & placing him in a quite, dark, warm area of your home. It should be away from family and/or pet traffic. 

If you haven't replaced the 'plain' water with the rehydrating solution, please do so. The added pinch of salt & sugar to the fresh water can make all the difference in the world. 

Cindy


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## Guest

This sure sounds like a crop stasis of which a yeast infection is often the culprit.


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## feralpigeon

Hi Kristen,

I just spoke w/Meredith Sampson who works at Wild Wings Inc. in 
Old Greenwich, CT. She recommended a Michael Dunn in Orange, Ct.
who used to work in her area and moved to Orange which is right next 
door to your location. She has worked w/him in the past and he comes
well recommended. His phone number is 203-288-3307. Hope he can 
see you today.

fp


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## SkyofAngels

I will try to work something out to take the bird to the vet. Its hard cause I don't drive and my husband doesn't get home until after the vets are closed. I did have the salt and sugar in the water sorry I mistyped. I was up all night with the bird. I brought into a spare room it is dark and quiet in there. I also put the thermometer in there and it reads 76 degrees. I made sure it had food and the water with the salt and sugar. It is eating the turkey pellets by itself. It doesn't quite get the idea of the seeds yet. It seems much more alert this morning. When I opened the box it flew around alittle.


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## feralpigeon

Is the crop still ballooned?

fp


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## SkyofAngels

It just feels squishy not as full as last night


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## Whitefeather

SkyofAngels said:


> It just feels squishy not as full as last night


Does the crop seem to be emptying or is that 'squishy' feeling some residue from last night?
What do the droppings look like?

Cindy


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## SkyofAngels

The poops are still pretty watery. I just lined the box ten minutes ago and I just went to check and there was two poops. One looked like his past poops it was a puddle of watery white with a long dark green coil. The next one was different the green part was the same put instead of it being white it looked like lemonade with white streaks . All the droppings are about the size of a quarter.


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## feralpigeon

I'd put ACV water only out for the bird and add 1 tablespoon per quart of water.
Keep a close eye that the bird is drinking the water and a close eye on the
crop. Could be that the youngster is gorging on the Turkey pellets and 
over doing it through inexperience. It won't hurt to temporarily pull the
food and see how the crop responds.

ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) water is very good w/yeast infections, and the
ACV is frequently on the shelf.

fp


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## Guest

Whatever you do, don't give refined sugar. It's a big draw for yeast cells. If you can get some Pedialyte, that would be good. If the bird is sick from a yeast infection, sugar will only serve to make the condition worse.


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## SkyofAngels

okay, my husband is going to try to get out as soon as possible then I will go and get acv and unflavored pedialyte. Is there anything else I should get?


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## Guest

There are two medications I would always keep on hand but they have to be ordered and you have a problem needing immediate attention.
The two medications are a Four in One and Medistatin. If you want to get these two, I can give you the web sites. (A wormer should be on hand too.)


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## SkyofAngels

I have the four in one and feralpigeon is sending me the following
Baytril
Metronidazole
Bactrim
Nystatin
Mediworm
Coccimed
1 cc syringe


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## SkyofAngels

Are any of those the same as Medistatin? Or should I get that as well?


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## Guest

It's the Nystatin.


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## joefi2

*old timer*

Cat Food Dog Food ? It A Pigeon, Feed It Pigeon Food Or Salf Flower Oats Not Frozen Peas ,peas That You Get From A Feed Mill Ask For Pigeon Feed, They Have Feed With Corn Without Corn Or Reg Bird Feed That You Can Buy At Wall Mart Of Fleet Farm Not Dog Food ,hope Your Pigeon Does Good Use A Eye Dropper For Water If It Is Not Drinking,good Luck


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## feralpigeon

Many rehabbers use Kitten and puppy kibble for helping sick birds/pigeons. It is a whole food as are pellets. The bird also gets hydration as well by soaking them first. Remember, these are formulated kibble diets and the nutrients/ingredients are regulated by law.

The same concept regarding hydration incorporated into the food being
hand fed to a sick bird is present be it soaked kibble, baby bird formula
fed to a sick adult, thawed frozed green peas or human baby food such
as Gerbers. These are all acknowledged ways of feeding sick birds that need
assistance w/the feedings. One might select one over another for administration, 
accessibility, or esophageal obstruction issues.

fp


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## Maggie-NC

Kristen, I'm very sorry your pigeon is still not well. For years, we have used a product called Nutrical for pigeons that are underweight and malnourished. It is in a tube and comes out like toothpaste. You can squeeze out about 1/4" and dip soaked pellets in it and feed that way.


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## feralpigeon

Doesn't really matter whether the pellets or soaked kibble, at this point the
bird is having difficulties emptying the crop. It was ballooned last night.
Maggie, maybe you have a link for Kristen on the Nutrical? I haven't seen
it myself locally, though maybe she might be able to get it that way.

fp


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## SkyofAngels

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile things are pretty chaotic on my end. When I got back from the store around 5pm the bird had an empty crop. Thats good right? That means he is emptying it. I held off on the food and just gave the pedialyte. He drank about 1/4 cup of that and then the crop was squishy again. Droppings are looking pretty normal again they aren't watery anymore. After he drank the pedialyte I tried giving the water and acv but he wasn't interested he was more interested in watching my husband vaccum the living room. He sat there with his head tilted to one side just watching and then when my husband was done the bird flew around for a little while and now is back in the box. He seems much more alert and stronger. I am not as scared anymore. What a sweetheart too. Just snuggled into my lap and drank the pedialyte out of the bowl in my hand. I haven't given any food today so when should I start with the food again. I feel like we are finally making some progress I don't want to push my luck.


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## feralpigeon

Kristen, glad to hear that your bird is doing better and the crop has emptied, that's a good sign. It does sound as though he is back to his sweet self. Try this.....measure how much you give the bird to eat and then time how long it takes for the bird's crop to empty with that amount. There are some young birds that get carried away at feeding time and over do it. Perhaps this is what happened w/yours. You will have to keep a close eye on the crop and make sure it is emptying between meals. I'd also continue to measure the food out on this one, or pull the feed bowl after let's say ten minutes to be safe for the time being.

fp


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## feralpigeon

Thought you might be interested:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/health.html

fp


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## Whitefeather

Thanks for posting the link fp.

Great picture of the Anatomy of a Pigeon.  

Cindy


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## SkyofAngels

*Nutrical*

I looked up nutrical on the internet and it came up with three different kinds one just says nutrical another is for cats and another for dogs. I assumed that the first would be the best however petco only has the cat and dog ones. So my question is should I order the plain nutrical one off the internet or would one of the dog or cat ones work and if so which one would be best?


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## TAWhatley

Whatever kind of NutriCal the store has should be fine. I suspect the ingredients in the dog and cat products are the same but don't know that for a fact as I never knew there was more than one kind of NutriCal.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC

Kristen, I am happy that things are going better.

I thought there was only one kind of Nutrical too. I believe the kind we use is for dogs (our tube is in the "pigeon bedroom" and they snoozing right now) but you can get it at Pet Smart in our area. It looks like molasses, only thicker, and really helps them.

FP, that link is really good. I don't remember seeing the anatomy detailed that clearly.


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## SkyofAngels

*What Happened?*

The bird is doing MUCH better. The crop is emptying regularly and he is drinking fine and eating pellets(still has trouble with the seeds or maybe is just a really messy eater) and poops are looking good(never thought I would say that) So I tried putting him back with his friends I figured he was sick of the box and missed his friends. Well he was overjoyed until all the other pigeons started pecking at him viciously. Even my mellow nice birds. I couldn't believeit and he just kinda sat there and took it I of course rushed in and scooped him up and brought him back in. What happened? Do they consider him an outsider already? My husband said let him back in so they could establish pecking order. I just can't what if they kill him? My husband has a harsher attitude( he grew up on a farm and I grew up with a mother who literally catches flies in her house with a butterfly net and lets them out of the house) so he is just like that is how things go. But I didn't spend sleepless nights handfeeding the bird for the others to peck him to death. So who is right? Do I have a reason to be alarmed or is that normal behavior?


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## Flying_Pidgy

i was thinking maybe you can put him in a cage and put the cage in there with them so they get used to him too then when they are used to them let him stay in and monitor if they fight or what.


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## Pidgey

It happens but the crowd can easily kill one like that if it gets too rough. It's better to wait until your youngster gets old enough to have developed some attitude.

Pidgey


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## Guest

Pigeons sense weakness in their members and will attack to get them out of the flock.


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