# Two males mated, how do I break the pairing?



## Jeff Ward (Dec 24, 2008)

I have two cock birds paired up and I'd like to break up the pairing. I have 12 racers that I have just recently put into our new loft. I'm not 100% sure which of the other birds are hens. I do have breeder boxes 24X16X16 so I could separate the cocks and put them with what I believe to be hens. How long do you think I would have to keep them separated and locked up for the cocks to pair up with the hens? What are the chances of the two cocks pairing back up after they are let out of the breeder boxes? Approximately how long would these pairs need to be locked up before they should lay eggs?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

2 Male pigeons mated? sounds like perfect widowhood flyers.


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## Jeff Ward (Dec 24, 2008)

They will have to be prisoners and I was hoping to use them for breeding.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I`ll tell you what I did with 2 cocks that mated up !!! There both gone !!....Lets just say that a GOOD dominant cock does not want another cock in his nest box..Get rid of them..It`s a very bad trait.....Alamo


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Just place them with the females they will figure it out.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Lol plus pigeons love to cheat


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If you want to use them for breeding then you should have hens picked out to pair them with.. they would have to be seperated of course and introduced to the hen you pick, by puting them in sight of the hens with a partitian between them to get them used to each other, alone and in one area.. when they act interested put them together, but watch to make sure the hen is not being bullied in a confined space like that... or you could put the two hens you picked with the two males without any other birds in the breeding area and see what happens over time.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Alamo said:


> I`ll tell you what I did with 2 cocks that mated up !!! There both gone !!....Lets just say that a GOOD dominant cock does not want another cock in his nest box..Get rid of them..It`s a very bad trait.....Alamo


I don't understand. Why would you get rid of them just because they're not "good" dominant cocks? Did they perform well? If they did, it seems like a real waste. A bad trait? I've heard of many times where two cocks or two hens paired up. You separate them, put them with the bird you want them to mate with, and let nature take its course.


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

ptras said:


> I don't understand. Why would you get rid of them just because they're not "good" dominant cocks? Did they perform well? If they did, it seems like a real waste. A bad trait? I've heard of many times where two cocks or two hens paired up. You separate them, put them with the bird you want them to mate with, and let nature take its course.


Because a good cock wouldn't let another cock in his nestbox. Personally, I would just separate them, but I see what he means


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Crab_Shrapnel said:


> Because a good cock wouldn't let another cock in his nestbox. Personally, I would just separate them, but I see what he means


Good at what? Flying?


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

ptras said:


> Good at what? Flying?


I don't think he is talking about good at flying, rather the natural trait of the bird. A dominant "cockly" behaving cock won't allow another cock bird in the nest box. To a good average, those defending dominant cock birds turn out to be good parent also.

I think its that view point he is mentioning

Jeff Ward - You have to separate both the males if they do not show interest in the hens even after introductions.

Separate one of the cock bird and the other should pick up on a hen from the rest. Just one question, when these two cocks were introduced to each other in your loft, were they the only birds at that time ?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

personally I like the more docile cock birds... you do not have to worry about them as much as in hurting/scalping/killing someone elses squabs... now THAT is a trait I do not like.. that cock would be gone.


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## Jeff Ward (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks for all the input. Sreesh, the two birds were "mated" when I got them. They are 06 birds, and the largest of the 12 I have. I'd like to keep them if at all possible for breeding, but if I can't get them paired up with hens they are not really what I'm looking for. I'd like to get some YBs out of them and then pass them on to new fanciers for breeding. Maybe I'll just have to pass one along, time will tell I guess. I do like your idea of only having to separate one cock from the other, that makes sense. Out of the 12 there are only 3 birds that I'm positive are cocks so there should be lots of hens to pick from. Their are at least 6 birds over a year old that appear to be hens, and a few YB's.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> personally I like the more docile cock birds... you do not have to worry about them as much as in hurting/scalping/killing someone elses squabs... *now THAT is a trait I do not like.. that cock would be gone.*




I agree with spirit wings. I have two cocks who are together also, and they share a nest box. But I* do* see them chasing females. I'm sure that if I separate them and introduce them to a female that they can have, they would mate up with her. I think if you can mate them up with females, they will stay with them when returned. I really don't think they would go back to each other. Try it and please let us know how it goes.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> I don't think he is talking about good at flying, rather the natural trait of the bird. A dominant "cockly" behaving cock won't allow another cock bird in the nest box. To a good average, those defending dominant cock birds turn out to be good parent also.


Although a dominant cock bird is usually a good parent (or so I'm told), there is no evidence that a less dominant cock will NOT be a good parent.

As far as the "natural trait" of the bird, it seems to me as if what happened (two cocks pairing up) is the natural trait of these birds. Maybe it isn't the trait that you desire, but it appears to have happened with no intervention from humans...thereby the natural trait of the birds.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

1 Are you sure both are cock birds. I have had a time or 2 a hen that looked more like a cock. Second most any time a hen or cock takes to each other they will go right to pairing with a mate once they are put together. So If both are cocks just seperate and add a heen Should pair right up.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

ptras said:


> Although a dominant cock bird is usually a good parent (or so I'm told), there is no evidence that a less dominant cock will NOT be a good parent.
> 
> As far as the "natural trait" of the bird, it seems to me as if what happened (two cocks pairing up) is the natural trait of these birds. Maybe it isn't the trait that you desire, but it appears to have happened with no intervention from humans...thereby the natural trait of the birds.


I have my doubts on the facts whether a male/male or female/female pairing happen in the feral pigeons. The natural trait in animals and birds when it comes to pairing up leads only to one result, producing babies  anything else, I would doubt its natural. Captive environments might be bringing in changes, can't think anything else on that subject more on my side.

When referring to the dominant cock, I didn't intend on the attacking aggressive type, but the one who maintains and defends its breeding space from the same sex. If someone is keeping birds with the intention of breeding, thats something which is a good stamp.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> I have my doubts on the facts whether a male/male or female/female pairing happen in the feral pigeons. The natural trait in animals and birds when it comes to pairing up leads only to one result, producing babies  anything else, I would doubt its natural. Captive environments might be bringing in changes, can't think anything else on that subject more on my side.


I'm not sure I agree with you on this point. Look it up on the web and see what you get:

Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual, bisexual and trans-gender behavior in animals. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied. According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity — including homosexual, bisexual and non-reproductive sex — than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept." Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species. Homosexuality is best known from social species.

"No species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue." -Peter Bockman, Scientific adviser to _Against Nature?_ exhibit.

A few more tidbits specifically about birds:

-Studies have shown that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild exhibit homosexual behavior.

-Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population

-An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs. More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs, possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pairs raising chicks.

-In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together. A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

And of course, our favorites:

-Both male and female pigeons sometimes exhibit homosexual behavior. As well as sexual behavior, same-sex pigeon pairs will build nests, and lesbian hens will lay (infertile) eggs and attempt to incubate them. Some pigeons also display "fetish" behavior and attempt to mate with specific inanimate objects.

That last example resonates for me. I currently have two Flight hens that set up nest together and are incubating eggs. Of course, I swapped out the infertile eggs with some good roller eggs!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Dominant cocks FIGHT for their nest box & hen bird mate !!! Not other cock birds !!!
Another bad trait is birds that GRUNT at you when you enter the loft...Get rid of them also....If you don`t understand about grunting,here is the answer....When a pigeon GRUNTS,he/she is warning the other birds of DANGER...If your birds think you are DANGER,when you enter your loft,you need another hobby !!!....Alamo


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

ptras said:


> I'm not sure I agree with you on this point. Look it up on the web and see what you get:
> 
> Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual, bisexual and trans-gender behavior in animals. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied. According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity — including homosexual, bisexual and non-reproductive sex — than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept." Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species. Homosexuality is best known from social species.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Apart from that wikipedia article, this is also listed in the webs 

Gives a slightly different type of insight

-- "Homosexual" Animals Do Not Exist 

In 1996, homosexual scientist Simon LeVay admitted that the evidence pointed to isolated acts, not to homosexuality: 

Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.
Despite the "homosexual" appearances of some animal behavior, this behavior does not stem from a "homosexual" instinct that is part of animal nature. Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains: 

Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction.

It Is Unscientific To "Read" Human Motivation
And Sentiment Into Animal Behavior
Like many animal rights activists, homosexual activists often "read" human motivation and sentiment into animal behavior. While this anthropopathic approach enjoys full citizenship in the realms of art, literature, and mythology it makes for poor science. Dr. Charles Socarides of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) observes: 

The term homosexuality should be limited to the human species, for in animals the investigator can ascertain only motor behavior. As soon as he interprets the animal's motivation he is applying human psychodynamics--a risky, if not foolhardy scientific approach.

Source: National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH)
http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would bet my money on screesh's article, reproduction in the animal world is just too strong.. females usually do the picking in the bird world any way. in a closed domestic situation, they will..how does the song go?.... " love the one your with"...... do doot doot doot doot do doot....doo doo doot! (crosby stills and nash)..lol..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Alamo said:


> Dominant cocks FIGHT for their nest box & hen bird mate !!! Not other cock birds !!!
> Another bad trait is birds that GRUNT at you when you enter the loft...Get rid of them also....If you don`t understand about grunting,here is the answer....When a pigeon GRUNTS,he/she is warning the other birds of DANGER...If your birds think you are DANGER,when you enter your loft,you need another hobby !!!....Alamo


Actually, that isn't entirely true. I think you mean that YOUR definition of a Dominant Cock will act in that way. I don't agree. My two cocks who are together are Not wimps. They are rather dominant and aggressive. If another cock enters their box, they throw him out on his @$$. The other birds get out of their way. Who knows why they made this choosing. Sometimes I think it is because they are young, or cannot secure a hen right away or for whatever reason. But it surely does not make them any less dominant, and it doesn't mean that they will stand by when a trespasser tries to gain access to their box. Now that being said, I think that if these two are mated up to hens, they will more than likely be just fine. I would try that before just getting rid of what could be a fine bird. 
And as far as grunting birds, well I have had them too. I do rescues, and not all my birds are friendly or trusting when I get them. As for the grunters, I win them over. They learn to trust me with time. I find it a much better practice to learn to work with the birds I have, then to just get rid of them. I like all my birds, and the differences make them unique. And I don't post a list of rules for them to follow as a prerequisite to living here. That's what makes them interesting. Just letting them be what they are.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sreeshs said:


> Apart from that wikipedia article, this is also listed in the webs
> 
> Gives a slightly different type of insight
> 
> ...




Very interesting article Sreeshs. Thanks for sharing it.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Very interesting article Sreeshs. Thanks for sharing it.


It is definitely an interesting article, but it doesn't speak to the point I was making. There is also a fallacy in the article that states "Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex." The fact that we are even speaking about this subject disproves this sentence. We are speaking about *two male pigeons that have pair-bonded*, or, in other words, *their reproductive instinct is not directed towards an individual of the opposite sex*! [*Edit*] I don't want anyone to infer from my postings that I believe or that I am promoting the theory that pigeons *must *same-sex pair-bond for life. However, evidence can be presented in many species that *sexual activity* takes place between same-sex pairs.

The article I posted, and the examples, are all examples of animals who exhibit a "natural trait" of male/male or female/female pair-bonding. My mistake for not posting the part of the article that states that the word "homosexual" is being used according to its scientific meaning: **** = one. I don't suggest, nor does the article, that birds or other animals are "gay" or "lesbian". Those are definitely terms that are applicable only to the human species. What I intended to show with that article, is that there is nothing "unnatural" about the behavior exhibited by these two cocks, and that they are doing nothing in opposition to their "natural traits".

Spirit Wings - I don't disagree with Sreeshs' article, but it is merely stating that *the term* homosexual is not appropriate to describe the sexual activity of animals. Read the paragraph in the middle: "...an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction." Kind of sounds to me as if they're saying that animals engage in homosexual activities, but wait! Don't call them homosexuals, or you'll be dooming them to extinction. And the last line of that paragraph? Sounds an awful lot like they're saying the animals engage in sexual activity, albeit for reasons other than reproduction - much as humans do.

The scientist Simon LeVay needs to evaluate the number of incidences of same-sex sexual activity before he calls them "isolated incidences". When I was researching this, I found that some animals have percentages of same-sex pair-bonding that WAY exceed what I have posted as examples. I just chose to only post about birds, as I felt it was more applicable. [*Edit*] This paragraph was changed by me to remove my *opinion*.

I guess the good news about all this, is that the original poster should feel confident that if he separates the two cocks, and gives them access to hens, they are likely to turn out as fine breeders, provided they have other traits that are desirable.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

It would be also interesting to know if anybody here had experience with a female to female or male to male pairing in pigeons which lasted for life (like the male to female pairing for life) even in the presence of opposite sex in the same loft.

That would give a more convincing and practical picture. Yet it might be difficult as hobbyists with the intention of breeding from them would have eventually separated to get the generation going.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That would be interesting Sreeshs. Maybe someone who has rescues or just pet birds may have had this happen. I know most who breed would have broken up the set.


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## zosterops (Nov 5, 2009)

OK now 
i dont know how this fits in but i have a pair of female Swifts that always nest together. i have 3 pairs one pair that has paired these 2 hens and the 2 spare boys I guess they are bi as all their eggs do hatch but the to hens spend all the time on the nest and raising the chicks ( 4 at a time ) i never see the males near the nest the 2 hens wont let them maybe this is just a freak thing happening to me but thats what ive noticed


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## Jeff Ward (Dec 24, 2008)

ptras said:


> Although a dominant cock bird is usually a good parent (or so I'm told), there is no evidence that a less dominant cock will NOT be a good parent.
> 
> As far as the "natural trait" of the bird, it seems to me as if what happened (two cocks pairing up) is the natural trait of these birds. Maybe it isn't the trait that you desire, but it appears to have happened with no intervention from humans...thereby the natural trait of the birds.


I do not know that it's a natural trait of the birds, I have only had the a few weeks, they are three years old, and maybe could have been together since hatch???? I'm not sure of that, so it could have been human intervention????


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2010)

I think it would be very easy to break up that pair with a couple of hens in the right conditions.. I have a very dominate mair pair in my one all male loft and they have no problem keeping at the top of the ladder in that coop


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

As with 99% of the animal world,it`s male & female together....That`s the only way the species can survive...Male with male pigeons,even if young,is going against nature...And that is a bad trait....If you can break up these two cocks,do so right away....Personally,I would dispose of at least one of them...Give one away to another flyer....
The grunting that I mentioned in my last post,is a bad habit or trait...JAY3,I like my birds tame,and not afraid of me,when I enter the loft...I am not there to eat them !!! The grunter makes ALL the birds fear me,or any other human...I have read many books,and allmost all of them said grunting is a sign of STUPIDITY....The bird is not smart enough to relalize that I am taking care of it,by feeding etc....A grunter passes this trait to his children....No matter how calm,and slow I move in the loft,they will grunt...It`s amazing that at one time I had 40 youngsters....Only 2 grunted,and they were sons of a grunting cock...The other 38 YB`s were tame,and even tamer,once I got rid of the 2 grunting YB`s...I could,and still do,sit in the loft,and all of my YB`s will play with my shoe laces,and socks...They trust me,and are smart enough to know I mean them no harm....But grunters to do trust anyone !!.....Alamo


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> It would be also interesting to know if anybody here had experience with a female to female or male to male pairing in pigeons which lasted for life (like the male to female pairing for life) even in the presence of opposite sex in the same loft.
> 
> That would give a more convincing and practical picture. Yet it might be difficult as hobbyists with the intention of breeding from them would have eventually separated to get the generation going.


As for male-female mating for life, one of the males from my mated pairs serviced two other females in my loft. All while split shifting with his mate on a pair of eggs. So much for "mating for life"!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ptras said:


> As for male-female mating for life, one of the males from my mated pairs serviced two other females in my loft. All while split shifting with his mate on a pair of eggs. So much for "mating for life"!


Well even the mated pairs do cheat. I think we all know that. But normally they do go back to the mate.


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

The way I see it, if it makes the cocks happy, let them be together. What is it hurting?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

re lee said:


> Not going into the gay thing I do not believe in it and this is not the place to talk about it.




I agree with you, in that this is not the place. But you were the one who brought it up. 
This discussion started about whether or not 2 cock birds that are together, could be split up and mated with 2 hens, and if that were done, would the male female pair stay together when put back into the loft. Let's get back to that topic. It doesn't matter whether or not there are homosexual animals or not. And being judgmental about others lifestyles doesn't belong here. Can we please try to help Jeff with his questions?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Crab_Shrapnel said:


> The way I see it, if it makes the cocks happy, let them be together. What is it hurting?


Well, for one thing, these 2 birds are prisoners, and he got them to breed them. He doesn't really have any need, nor probably the room for 2 cocks that he can't breed.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

If they were my birds, and they had desirable traits (color/markings/performance), I would separate the two males, and put them in with un-mated females. Give them a chance. You can always give one or both away later if it doesn't work out.


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Well, for one thing, these 2 birds are prisoners, and he got them to breed them. He doesn't really have any need, nor probably the room for 2 cocks that he can't breed.


Oh, I misunderstood, I thought he was racing them.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

There is one thing many are missing here, that is the case of exceptions. Exceptions do occur in every life form it is not to be considered natural. You can have a deer with three horns by birth, process is natural but the 3 horns is still not natural when it comes to deers.

I am not going to talk about humans but in the animal kingdom its natural only when opposite sex pairing happens, because the intention of the pairing is to produce offsprings and carry forward the good genes attained as part of the survival of the fittest system of nature.

"Survival of the fittest" is the way in which nature selects the good from the rest, these genes when carried forward from male and female produces better offsprings, thats how life goes forward and evolution takes the course and thats how the world we see now has come to be, thats how it needs to be for a better world.

The phenomenon is similar to what we do when mating pairs with good homing instinct to get good flyers. Mating close to standard fancy breeds to get more close to standard birds. The difference there is that its human intervention and not a 100% natural selection.

Just think, if those very first Fantails which can only be arrived in this world due to heterosexual matings, turned out to be homosexual pigeons, one would never had anymore of those beautiful birds. I don't even think there is a point in arguing about homosexuality in animal kingdom. Its common sense, mate two males and give me an offspring I will correct my thinking and my commonsense.

P.S: Would Jeff Ward ever thought that this would be the way the thread will go  
I hope it did address your situation, please let us know how the re-pairing goes, good luck


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

zosterops said:


> OK now
> i dont know how this fits in but i have a pair of female Swifts that always nest together. i have 3 pairs one pair that has paired these 2 hens and the 2 spare boys I guess they are bi as all their eggs do hatch but the to hens spend all the time on the nest and raising the chicks ( 4 at a time ) i never see the males near the nest the 2 hens wont let them maybe this is just a freak thing happening to me but thats what ive noticed


I don't get it completely, sorry, but if you are saying the two hen birds lays 4 eggs altogether and 4 of them hatch, then the mating is male to female itself. 

The sperm from the male and the egg from the female is required for a successful hatch. Two sperms can sit together and have a couple of drinks and discuss how the whether is, but nothing happens towards developing a new life


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

anyone can be pro or con on any subject, and offend someone in this day and age.. best not to say your offended either on a public forum (you may offend someone else), so it goes both ways. This thread will be shut down now.. but do not think there is really anymore to add about same sex pairing up of pigeons.. it happens.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> anyone can be pro or con on any subject, and offend someone in this day and age..* best not to say your offended either on a public forum (you may offend someone else), so it goes both ways.*




Well, I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of personal opinion. How does saying that you are offended at that kind of comment, offend someone else? I think that our views on religion or lifestyle or politics, or anything else like that should be kept to ourselves. It doesn't matter how I feel about a topic of that kind, I am offended at the person's disregard for others that may be hurt, by the remark.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> [/B]
> 
> Well, I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of personal opinion. How does saying that you are offended at that kind of comment, offend someone else? I think that our views on religion or lifestyle or politics, or anything else like that should be kept to ourselves. It doesn't matter how I feel about a topic of that kind, I am offended at the person's disregard for others that may be hurt, by the remark.


OK, now Im offended. why? because I let myself be offended by someone else, it is a popular thing to do now days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> OK, now Im offended. why? because I let myself be offended by someone else, it is a popular thing to do now days.


Didn't mean to offend


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think the subject has been exhausted.

Everyone has a right to their opinions but no one has the right to force theirs on anyone, that is why certain subjects should not be discussed on the forum. However, I don't think Robert meant to offend anyone.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I went back and deleted My posts THAT may have offended anyone. AND I saw where others went back and edited theres I was Not trying to offend but stop the subject from going to a place it did not belong. And I was not the person bringing it there. Now I see some of you copyed my posts and it still shows As does the other posts that was copied that others edited. If you want this subject droped then You to could delete your post. But Thats up to you. My beliefs are mine your are yours I leave it at that and will say If I offende anyone I Am sorry.


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