# Broken leg



## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

I changed Tims braces today, and examined his leg carefully. It appears to have been broken...just below the knee, and healed. Could that be why he has no muscle tone in that leg?


----------



## Fred (May 10, 2003)

There is no knee in a bird. It's called the ankle. You can take the brace off Tim now. He never had a splay leg. Now you know why a vet is needed to make a diagnosis and why treating on your own is no good unless you know what you are doing. In your hands, this bird never had a chance and will never walk normally. You ruined his ability to survive on his own. This isn't loss of muscle tone by itself. It's nerve atrophy. The brace never gave the bird any opportunity to excercise that leg. Everybody has the money to buy a computer but when it comes having medications on hand for their birds or for paying a vet, well, that's just too expensive.


[This message has been edited by Fred (edited July 15, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Fred (edited July 15, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Fred (edited July 15, 2003).]


----------



## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

Okay, first things first. How long ago did you find the pigeon and how long ws the splint on? I seriously doubt it grew back in a few days. I had a pigeon with a broken leg and it took about 4 weeks to be completely set and okay to walk on. 

Why do you say apparently it was broken? If it still feels broken, then you can get this reset/splinted. Sometimes there is permanent nerve damage from the break, sometimes temporary. I would highly recommend going to a vet to give it the best chance possible in life. 

Sometimes, we just have to bite the bullet and spend the money. I have had to do this I don't know how many times, always at the worst possible time financially, but I couldn't take a chance.

Please either get him to a rehabber in your area or take to the vet. It still might be fixable. Let us know if you need help in finding a rehabber in your town.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Fred and All,

I think if you had followed this situation from the beginning, you would realize that the odds of this particular bird being OK as far as the leg(s) was remote. It had been left far too long by the original owner (in my opinion) and then given to the current caretaker. Let's not write the whole situation off just yet and see what our list members might be able to do. Also IMO, it was unforgivable for the original owner/breeder to keep this young bird with the problem for as long as it was and not be trying to address the problem.

So, let's please offer all our support to the current owner and see if between all of us we can make this bird's life at least tolerable.

Terry Whatley

PS: I'm tired and beginning not to mince too many words .. so sorry.


----------



## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

Yeah, I tried to go back to the original post and thought I missed something. That is terrible that he was in that condition so long.

Well, I have a crippled pigeon in my loft (one leg) and he flies fine and hobbles along..kind of uses the bad leg as a crutch. I still say that maybe a vet can do something...possibly amputate it to where it can be used as a good crutch...I don't know. 

Poor piji baby.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Fred,

Wovenwoman has followed our advice from the outset. If anything has gone wrong then it is our fault.

As far as I understand Tim was bred for dog training and the owner didn't want to kill him so Wovenwoman took him in. That was the only chance this bird has. I think that she is wonderful for helping. She needs all our support.


The brace has been on for barely afew days.

Cynthia


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Fred,
What you posted on this thread is absolutely cruel to the core.

Did you bother to read any of the threads in the Emergency section? You might want to take a look at all of them from wovenwoman, beginning with the one titled: 'Help for baby bird with leg problem' 

Your only contribution to wovenwoman's thread titled: Update on Tiny Tim Splay leg & pictures was:
Edie,
I think you are some terrific person for trying to help. Have you seen any improvement at all? That is one nice looking pigeon.

I hope I'm wrong, however, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Edie never posts here again.
Cindy


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Just in case anybody is not aware:

Fred, everyone, 

Wovenwoman has had Little Tim for 4 days! 

He was bred for dog training and offered to her when he was three weeks old because of his "splay leg" which, incidentally we diagnosed (as far as I remember we didn't recommend going to a vet).

She wanted to take him immediately but it was 10 days before she got him.

His only chance is with her and she is a truly wonderful person to offer a home to a disabled baby. She has gone out of her way to get advice on how to make Tim's life happy and comfortable.

To my mind she doesn't only deserve our support she deserves an award!

Cynthia


----------



## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Oh Fred, by the way, just so you know, a friend of mine who is self employed built and donated my computer, monitor, and printer to me and my daughter as a gift. Another friend donated my software and other goodies.What a wonderful Christmas that was for us five years ago!!!


----------



## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

Wovewoman, I think you are doing a great job with rescuing this poor pigeon.

In defense of Fred - I've never known Fred to post a cruel or mean post. I've always found him to be extremely helpful and supportive. I can only assume that after all the posts about Afra and poor Francis and the kid who tied his pigeons wings with wire, that he just assumed the worst. This can happen to the best of us. Please don't be hard on Fred.
Hilary


----------



## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Hmmm, I dont know why, but my other post didnt go through. Update on Tim. Yes, he has a splay leg. The brace has helped him to keep his leg underneath in the proper place, so you were all on target it seems. It also looks like it was broken right beneath the ankle , and Fred may probably be right about the nerve atrophy. I have only had him since Sat, so this is our fifth day together. I could not ask for a sweeter, more calm bird. He is living on my kitchen table in a large parrot cage. There is a good aviary vet in our area, who I intend to call today. I am not sure if I can pay to take little Tim in, but I am going to try. 
Thanks for all your help. If I can , I will try to take a picture of it, and post it to my web site you you can all see.
And to Fred, I truly love animals too, and I know why you are upset. I am doing my best with Tim,but I know I have not hurt him.
By the way group, he wants to ONLY eat dry seeds, not the soaked ones, and not the ones with Zupreem in it. Is it ok to do that yet?
He looks like he is gaining weight too. (Sat is the first day his mommy wasnt feeding him)


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Glad to hear that Tim is gaining weight, sounds great! I think you are doing such a great job. Tim is probably thankful for your love and kindness and responding to your care and love!
I had a pigeon that had a broken leg, he hit the power line when he was flying. He flew down and was dangling his leg all the way into the coop! I had to take him to my veterinarian friend, who was able to find the break. She said he must have had a lot of pain! It broke above the knee. She taped the leg to the chest as if he was in a lying down position, and after a week she took the bandage off, and the bone had nitted very well. The second week he started hopping around on it, and I moved him to a parrot cage. (the first week I had to keep him calm and in isolation) The third week he started putting weight back on it, and this week he is walking normal again, and back in the coop! He was on a homeopathic product called Symphytum 6x, for a week and 1/2 which help heal and strengthen the bone. In the past, I never thought this could be done! I'm so grateful to find such people with so much knowledge about pigeons, like my friend!
Treesa


----------



## Nanci (Jul 4, 2003)

Hi Edie,

Would it be possible for you to take Tim to the vet and get x-rays of the leg? That way you could be sure of what was going on with it, and you could make a treatment plan from there. 

I felt a lot better after Milly had her wing x-rays done- I knew she didn't have anything more than swelling of the joint due to some sort of trauma, probably being picked on by another bird.

I've had a pigeon with a fractured leg, Dill, and he did _very_ well with physical therapy.

And Julie has Scooter who wasn't standing or walking at all. She has been doing PT exercises with him, and he took his first couple steps just a couple days ago.

So don't lose hope! Just get a diagnosis from a vet if you can.

Nanci


----------



## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Wovenwoman,
I apologize for the prior post. I've become impatient with many of the posts that appear here and stepped over the line here. I am probably much better off not posting at all. Please accept my apology for the post.


----------



## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Fred, no need to apologize. It is clear you want the best for Tim, and I absolutely LOVE that!!! I appreciate your input and actually you taught me about nerve atrophy, so thanks.
Tim has an appointment with an avaiary vet tomorrow. Hope she has good news. He looks stressed today. Can you give a pigeon too much attention?
Thanks
Edie


----------



## SandyDove (Apr 26, 2001)

wovenwoman,
So sorry about the baby! I'm not quite sure what is wrong with it's leg (seeing that I have been gone recently and I haven't read the original post.
I did have some good news that might cheer you up. I had a white baby pigeon (I'm trying to raise whites), whose leg jutted out to the side because of the way she had been sitting all her life. It was a defect that I don't believe was genetic or anything but just something that happened. I tried and tried to brace the leg with cardboard, tried to make a hobble, and everything you could think of to fix that little leg. But it was too late to really save it and she kept ruining her braces. So I prayed about it and just let her be. Now she is about half grown and can fly and everything. Her leg is kind of swept backwards so that it is out of her way. She had learned to balance on her good leg and can land very well with just one. I don't know if I'll ever try to dock the bad leg, but she seems to be doing well so far.

SandyDove


----------



## Guest (Jul 16, 2003)

Hi Wovenwoman- that is great news! If it seems like the cost will be really high, just tell him/her your situation and I'm sure they can work something out. I know how it is. 

Please keep us posted. I too, am glad that you have taken this pigeon in and are taking good care of him. I know you were doing everything we told you and hopefully, if it's broken or it grew back wrong, maybe they can rebreak it and set it...who knows. Either way, he can live a happy life. 

Will you be keeping him as pet after he's well?


----------



## modjo (Jul 15, 2003)

Edie,
I only found this site yesterday but I've read all the posts about poor Tim and his amazing story. I knew nothing about pigeons until yesterday but in my quest to find info to help my new pigeon Splodge, I found an interesting article on how to fix splayed legs in lovebirds with a make-up sponge. It's probably no help at all but I can get you the address of the site if you like.
Modjo


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I saw that article too and thought it was interesting, the bird was just too cute!

I was going to post it here but I saw that Edie already tied the legs.

I'll try to find it tomorrow, it might help someone else.

Mary




> Originally posted by modjo:
> *Edie,
> I only found this site yesterday but I've read all the posts about poor Tim and his amazing story. I knew nothing about pigeons until yesterday but in my quest to find info to help my new pigeon Splodge, I found an interesting article on how to fix splayed legs in lovebirds with a make-up sponge. It's probably no help at all but I can get you the address of the site if you like.
> Modjo*


----------



## wovenwoman (Jul 2, 2003)

Yes I will be keeping Tim as a pet! There is no way I can imagine him being a bird that is "set free", or going to a home where he isnt an indoor birdie. 
I saw the makeup sponge site, but I wasnt sure about using that, because I wanted to make sure his leg could "breathe" and it seemed like the sponge might not allow that. I went as far as even cutting the sponge down, but I was nervous about pulling his little toes through the holes.
He is adorable. He is sitting here right now trying to type with me. Isnt that cute? He thinks thats what we should do because he has been watching me type. 
This is the most laid back bird I have ever seen. I have a cattle dog mix, and three cats and he isnt afraid of any of them. Dont worry, my cats are not allowed out in Tims area when I am not home, and my dog goes to Grammas when I leave the house for any time at all, or she goes with me.
We go to the vet today. Wish us luck.


----------

