# pigeon hurt



## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

hi my name is andreas and i raise pigeons as a hobby.
i have many pigeons in my 2 big coupes and a ''wild'' flock of my own.
so i have about 13 birds that fly around during the day and then nest in the barn coupe.( the wild ones) with free access to outside. they are smart and are able to avoid hawks but...
i have a coupe and they go under the roof of it ,(were there is feed. they eat there when the cant find other food.)
so the problem is the CAT.
it is picking off my birds one after another.
it killed 5 already.i would kill the cat but im not aloud.
i do not wish to lock up my wild pigeons because i enjoy watching them fly and to backflips. 
2 days ago i went to feed my birds when the dog found the cat (the cat just caught another pigeon) the dog scared the cat away and brought me my pigeon. beautiful black pigeons with white wingtips and a white speckled head. i obsevered it and noticed it had a deep cut in its stomach and 2 smaller cuts under both wings. i took it home and disinfected it with iodine.
it was not able to move the first day. day 2 it was doing better but cannot eat.now it can walk but not fly its cuts are healing and i wish to keep it inside untill it is fully recovered. i was rather shocked that my parents let me keep it in the house. the bird is now really tame and lets me hand feed it.its pooh is liquidy and slimy. is it sick? please give me advise on how to care for it or anything else. it would be greatly apprecieted 
thanks
andreas willms~ abbotsford b.c.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi pigeonlover01,

The pij will need antibiotics asap--Clavamox also known as Augmentin. If you don't have on hand, this one normally requires a prescription. You'll have to find a vet who'll prescribe it. Cat bites can be fatal for a pigeon. Do you have any antibiotics on hand?

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Andreas,

It's very important for cat caught birds with injuries such as you describe to be given an antibiotic called Clavamox. Without this antibiotic treatment, it is possible for a massive infection to result from the cat bites and scratches and which will kill the bird (usually within the first 72 hours of the attack). Do you have any antibiotics available? If so, what do you have?

Do continue to provide this bird with good care and do your best to see that the wounds are kept clean and don't become infected. You really, really do need the antibiotics though.

The cat is only doing what cats do .. the cat needs to be kept inside and/or the birds need to be able to stay safely away from the cat. Killing the cat is not an appropriate action.

Terry


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*thanx*

thankyou for the reply but... im not about to order any medication i have taken care of a pigeon before who got shot in the wing the same way and it worked.
i live on a farm and as things go on the farm the animal is sick and you put it down.
so i will take care of it but with out any other medication its not needed. i have many pigeons but i was just hoping for help.i have about 150 pigeons and if i can help this one great if not that sucks but life goes on thank you.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Andreas,

I understand what you've said, but you are putting the bird at risk. If there is a wildlife rehabilitation center or person near you, I would strongly suggest taking the bird there for care as it really does need medical attention. Best of luck to you and the bird. Please let us know how it goes.

Terry


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*thanx again*

the advise u recomend may only be needed in near death situations. im saying this because the bird was in horrible condition earlier and is now well on the road to recovery.
it was like having seizures at first and complicated breathing but now it is better i think it may just have to heal on its own 
thanx again


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Andreas,

Wildlife Rescue Association in Burnaby takes in, shelters and cares for injured wildlife of all sorts. I think it's about a fourty minute drive from Abbotsford.
They are in the phonebook. Hope that helps.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi andreas,


Infections from Animal bites and punctures can proceed slowly, even during what otherwise seems to be a getting-well time.

They can become abcesses, as well as leading to systemic infections of various kinds.

I know Life on the Farm has it's ways...but Life on the Farm can also include sensible practices for those Animals which people elect to include to be in their care. Whether domestic per-se, or incidental rescues such as this one you describe.

It is possible also that the Cat is catching primarily those Birds who are in some way already ill, and this of course is a seperate issue from those infections which are associated with bites from Cats.

Your Bird might very well get well from the Cat bites and cuts, with no anti-biotics, only to succomb slowly to coccidiosis or other pre-existing ailment, which had compromised his attentions and reactions for the Cat to catch him in the first place.

And, for these sorts of illnesses, a definite diagnosis is helpful, and is usually based on a fecal examination and analysis done by an Avian Vet or experienced Bird rehabber, and, to be followed by the appropriate regimen and medications...

So...one can do this half hearted, or sortakinda just somewhat, and then shrug...or, one can do it a mite more thoroughly, devotedly, and in doing so, for that matter, learn things which later, might just come in handy for the general practices and experience for Farm management, Husbandry generally, or Poultry raising for whatever reason.

Them be my thoughts, anyway...


And I think, you will enjoy it more, and learn more, and become more able and useful to yourself and to others, if you take this in earnest, and see where it goes...


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Hi sorry to hear about the birds.*

Who's cat is it?? If it is a neighbors ask them to put a break away collar on it with a bell, and tell them it has been eating your birds. It sounds to me like it is hungry, is it a feral cat? Another idea might be to put some bird seed on a platform high above the ground so the cat can't get to the birds... or you could put some food out for the cat and maybe he won't dine on your birds....

Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I am guessing that the cat is yours as you live on a farm and farmyards are usually large. Also that the birds are eating spillage from the silo or bin which I have seen many times. The cat is on his own turf and will continue to take any bird that comes near. And hungry birds will take risks to survive. It is a very good idea to put a bell on the cat. That one small mercy will save a lot of bird lives even if your cat does not like it so much. Try to put some of that spillage up high too. The birds will prefer it that way and a lot of your grief will end. Hope it goes well and you can save a few birds.

Cameron


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear your bird has such a severe injuries, while this bird is recovering & rehabbing, you need to come to some solution in regards to the cat killing all these pigeons.

It is not fair to subject the wild pigeons to a cat that has the freedom to roam around and do what it likes. Are they eating grain or seed left behind, is that what keeps them coming back?

Please resolve this issue before anymore needless injuries and deaths occur. The bell idea, that Cameron suggested, would be a good start.

Thank you


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Andrea, I don't want to anger you in any way but.. you came to this site to ask for help about your sick Pigeon who got attacked by a cat in the area. People here offer their honest help and opinions and then you refuse to listen to them. Why? Maybe having that many pigeons you should keep some antibiotics on hand. Vets in your area could really help you out in the area. Please think about the bird as it didn't ask to be attacked and a suffering death because you don't want to get antibiotics.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pigeonlover01 said:


> thankyou for the reply but... im not about to order any medication i have taken care of a pigeon before who got shot in the wing the same way and it worked.
> i live on a farm and as things go on the farm the animal is sick and you put it down.
> so i will take care of it but with out any other medication its not needed.* i have many pigeons but i was just hoping for help*.i have about 150 pigeons and if i can help this one great if not that sucks but life goes on thank you.


Just curious, exactly what kind of help were you hoping for?  

Cindy


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*andy*

thanx for the advice
its actually our cat and the bell thing is a great idea thanx alot 
andreas


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*nature girl*

hi im sorry if it seems that way as you described but i was just merely saying that medecine costs alot of $ 
and in this case it is not seriously needed thats all 
thank you for you reply
andreas


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*cameron*

do the shelters keep the birds once you give it to them to take care of?
because i dont want to give that bird away i love it anyway i will send a pictures asap of the bird to show all of you how its doing and how it looks thanx for you immediet replys
the cat thing the only problem is that i cant come near the cat because i scare it away from my pigeons 
i will try though


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*pictures*

i wanted to put pics on but i clicked insert image and it asks for url
mine is under my album how do i add pictures?


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes Andreas,

When you bring an injured animal to Wildlife Rescue they take over the care, medications and shelter. There is no charge for the service. They are a not-for-profit organization that rely on donations to survive. If your bird survives you can usually pick it up and release it back where it was originally found. You can just call them and ask about some policies. If the bird is not fit for release you must specify if you want it returned to you as a pet or it could be euthanized. Don't be afraid to ask the tough questions. You will get straight answers. Hope this helps you.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pigeonlover01 said:


> i wanted to put pics on but i clicked insert image and it asks for url
> mine is under my album how do i add pictures?


I think your saying that you have a web album? If you do you can right click on your mouse (pc) and highlight the web address and copy. Then just paste it into a post here using a right click or the edit feature in the browser menu. I usually leave a space before and after the web address to set it off from the text.

If you don't have a web album, you can go to Webshots and open a free account and then copy the web address when finished and out of the user
mode and paste here.

The non-profit here will let you bring the animal/bird back to the place you picked it up at, long as it's not considered 'dangerous' like a badger or something. That is if it is releasable, and that call is up to them. They don't however treat peoples pets unless they fully sign them over to the non-profit.

Just ask how it works. 

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Very good point fp. 

I should have thought to say that in very clear language. The rehabbers I mentioned Andreas only take wild animals that have been injured, not pets. So be careful what you say or they may reject it and point you in the direction of a vet. I understood your injured bird to be a feral that was harmed by a cat though so on that basis it would qualify.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Camrron said:


> Very good point fp.
> 
> I should have thought to say that in very clear language. The rehabbers I mentioned Andreas only take wild animals that have been injured, not pets. So be careful what you say or they may reject it and point you in the direction of a vet. I understood your injured bird to be a feral that was harmed by a cat though so on that basis it would qualify.
> 
> Cameron


Well, if they let the rescuer return the bird or animal to the spot that they picked them up at, and this pij will be able to fly, then it should be fine. 

It's just that you're not in the driver's seat, so to speak.

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Quite right again fp.

When you give your animal up to a rehabber you also often give up the right to determine their future. You really are not in the drivers seat at that point anymore. My concern was that Andreas did not have the resources to buy medication plus some other factors she mentioned that led me to the believe that the rehabbers were the pigeons best bet for survival. Time is of the essence after a cat bite. The organization that I am talking about though is a long established and caring place. In my opinion they are open to alternatives for the long term care and rehab of animals, in this case a pigeon. You just have to talk to them straight and let them know your wishes and intentions. Not every rehabber is a death sentence for pigeons.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Oh, Cameron,

I wouldn't say that at all, just good to be aware of the different angles. The pigeon needs meds, and they would certainly be worth a try, no doubt about it. One never knows and shouldn't assume one way or the other,. Actually, I thought rehabbers had good reputations. 

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi fp,

The few rehabbers that I have known really did have good reputations.
My last post was in response to Andreas comments:

_"hi im sorry if it seems that way as you described but i was just merely saying that medecine costs alot of $ 
and in this case it is not seriously needed thats all 
thank you for you reply
andreas_"

I am wholly in support of meds for this bird. I believe in fact that from what I have read they are essential for it's survival and that is the place from which I made my comments. The conclusion I came to though was that Andreas could not afford the meds and therefore some professional assistance would help her out. Also it was to give her a resource that she may not have known about that will help her now and in the future as she has so many birds. I was also concerned that she did not think medication was necessary. So I don't know what you meant when you wrote:

_Oh Cameron_
_"I wouldn't say that at all, just good to be aware of the different angles._" 

Hopefully we are on the same page here. You have made some very good points tonight but you lost me on that last comment. Maybe I am just getting tired.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Andreas, Cameron, fp, all...



Large paper-foil packets of various Standard Veterinary type and all purpose no matter the species of antibiotics and other meds, some of which are suitable for treating Cat bites in Birds, and a great many other things, are usually available at typical "Farm Supply Stores" and Farm Feed Stores and so on, for something like six or seven or maybe ten dollars a packet...or more likely for some of the meds by now.

Most were four or five when I was buying them in the early 1980s.

Just out-of-date packets or damaged ones, likely would be given away free or for very little price if one simply "ask" the Clerks or Manager.

One packet will typically make 55 Gallons of meds, and, these are usually used for one's Poultry Husbandry and Commercial Flock concerns or Livestock concerns, when actual, probable or seasonal illness of one kind or another is either to be avoided, or, treated.


A sincere and impoverished teenager inquireing at such a store could likely be given such a packet or a just out of date or damaged packet for free, if they were willing or able to express themselves succinctly and with brevity and conviction. 

Or, if their family does business with that store, to obtain some consideration in some way at any rate, regarding the cost or terms of payment for it, if $5.00 or 'ten' is too much for them otherwise to muster...or if no just out-of-date packets or torn packets are in ready in the 'back'.

Too, most rural areas, everyone knows everyone to some extent, and surely, it is not beyond reason to suppose that someone around there has Poultry or Livestock of some kind whom they routinely or otherwise feel obliged to treat for various ails, and, who of course, would possibly have some, or many such various kinds of meds in such packets in their sheds or whatever.

Or similarly, if Farmers anylonger have friends or acquaintances who are also Farmers, maybe inquiries could be made of them directly, as to whether they have such packets of standard meds, used to treat their Poultry, or used to treat their Horses or Cows or Pigs or whatever, and could spare say a half a Teaspoon full or something which will make a Gallon at least of ready to serve meds.

If one merely read or make notes of what the Label says as for the amount in it and the how much a whole packet makes, or the brand and size anyway so one could 'google' the rest at liesure, then, it is not difficult to deduce how much one would make up to for the drinking Water of a patient who weighs say, 340 Grammes, instead of 900 pounds or whatever. And for that matter, the concentratione would tend to be about the same anyway, based on weight of the patients and the assumption they will drink what anyone drinks in-a-day.

If a packet makes "55 Gallons" worth, then one/fifty-fifth would make one Gallon.

So the solution/concentration for a Cow or for a Pigeon would be the same anyway, just the amout one would mix up for them would differ, unless one were expecting a Pigeon to drink 55 Gallons of Water-meds over the course of their treatment.


I used to buy my meds that way when we still had such stores here.

'Emtryl' ( for treating 'Blackhead' in commercial Turkey raising, but the same med, being "Dimetridazole" if memory serve, as is used by us for treating Canker or Trichomoniasis in Pigeons) was one of them, and there were others also...tetracycline, erythromicin ( sp? sorry, tired brain) and so on...



Too, I think today or lately somewhat, the 'Stars' are out of align as for the better ease of communication matters we all might hope would come happily and naturally.

I have seen several mishaps ongoing or poised to get worse today, and been party to some of them myself, and they make almost no sense, really, other than some parties do not listen or read well, or some begin to interpolate or impute, or some do not clearly enough say what they really mean, or do not do so very well...or did not understand in the first place, and make things confused or complicated or liable to suggest slight or closed mindedness or non sequiters.

So it goes sometimes...!


Lol...

Anyway, just some ideas for the 'Farm'...or for any of us who have access to Farm Supply Stores or their Mail Order services for that matter.

 

Love, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pikachu23739 (Jan 6, 2006)

pigeonlover01 said:


> hi im sorry if it seems that way as you described but i was just merely saying that medecine costs alot of $
> and in this case it is not seriously needed thats all
> thank you for you reply
> andreas


www.freewebs.com/westiofengland/ visit my website if you are bored


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As to this bird, it's the possibility of Pasteurella multocida that we're most worried about. Not all cats carry it and not all birds die from it. The fact that it CAN occur and kill the bird so quickly is the big reason we push getting the birds on a penicillin-based antibiotic so quickly. There was a story in the news last week about a hurt bird that got picked up by a cat who brought the bird home and nursed it back to health. The bird even ate from the cat's plate. It's a weird story:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1707954.html?menu=news.quirkies.animaltales

Webpage with a picture:

http://olgui.stumbleupon.com/

So, not every cat bite or lick causes death but when they do it usually happens pretty fast.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Cameron,

No problem, just responding to this:

"Not every rehabber is a death sentence for pigeons."

The only concern I have is asking questions in advance so that one understands 
the way things work. It seems that pigeonlover01 is very fond of the pigeon
and wants the pij to come back home.

Your suggestion is a good one to try this group....and I think we agree that asking questions can only help.

Regarding rehabber's and folks who work for not for profit orgs., unless of course the ED, they don't usually make a bunch of money, more so for the rehabbers who seem to be very tightly regulated in terms of cash flow for their efforts. Just a labor of love......

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> As to this bird, it's the possibility of Pasteurella multocida that we're most worried about. Not all cats carry it and not all birds die from it. The fact that it CAN occur and kill the bird so quickly is the big reason we push getting the birds on a penicillin-based antibiotic so quickly. There was a story in the news last week about a hurt bird that got picked up by a cat who brought the bird home and nursed it back to health. The bird even ate from the cat's plate. It's a weird story:
> 
> http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1707954.html?menu=news.quirkies.animaltales
> 
> ...



Hey Pidgey, 

You sure that site isn't a joke? Right under it is the pic that Pete Jasinski posted of the little boy being "bombed" w/pigeon poo, and underneath that is 
a story of a Russian invention that makes one invisible??? HUH???

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the second site refers to the first one, I think. I heard the story on the radio and I don't know where they got it or how far it's gone. I just wanted to supply a link so I googled it today but I heard it on the radio last week. The picture may be faked, can't tell ya'.

But it's still immaterial to the point that not all cat bites and licks cause the fatal progression of infection of the organs from Pasteurella multocida. In fact, it's not uncommon to find that particular bacteria in a bird's esophagus and airways as a casual inhabitant. It's when it becomes bloodborne that it usually causes the rapid death of the bird.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Are you saying that it might not be bloodborne in all puncture wounds?

fp


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*great news*

my pigeon is doing really good.
im gonna let it into the wild coupe tommorrow with the others. hopefully it will be good enogh to continue if not i will take it and keep caring for it.
thank you for all your posts i will be in touch


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Alot of times the vets will help you out with meds very cheaply and sometimes they can give you enough samples to get you thru this. I am sorry if I snapped but hurts when someone says just put it down without trying different things is all.


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*np no problem*

hey hows everyone doing ? i am so happy that my pigeon is doing better.
question does anybody love birds other than pigeons?
i love handfeeding all sorts of birds
robins starlings pigeons crows
the picture of the crow under my name is my pet crow :charlie:
i hand fed him
he was an awsome companion!
i would be at work about i km down the road and i would whistle and call charlie
he would always come and land on my shoulder
crows are very affectionate birds! any body have any other intersting storys?
ps. my pigeon can eat and drink alone now!!!!!!!!! ps check out some pictures on my website http://www.freewebs.com/pigeonpictures/index.htm Currently under construcion


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*how did you tame the crow? is it yours? or free flyer?*

just curious, I like crows they are a warning signal to other birds that a raptor is around... but then again I have heard horror stories of them taking babies from the nest, which I can't even imagine seeing that.. I know they go after rats because I saved one in the middle of the street with 6 crows torturing it and I put a box down on the ground and the rat ran inside of it. They did get one of his eyes (sad) but I like watching crows I think they are funny hopping around and talking. I also like the fact that family members are very close and stay together for life. 

Andi


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*andy*

i tamed the crow cimply by hand feeding it when it was little


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Great News*

I released my injured pigeon today back in the coupe it seems to be doing fine. will continue to check up on it and keep evryone updated.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks pigeonlover01, I look forward to hearing how the pigeon is doing. 

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I do hope your pigeon is Okay Andreas. Let us know one way or another. Time will tell so you should keep an eye on her if you can. Thanks for the note fp, just a bit of late night misunderstanding on my part I am sure.

Cameron


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*pigeon flying with flock*

my injured pigeon was flying with my flock [email protected]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi pigeonlover01,

That's good news, and I'm sure your very happy about that. Probably a good idea to continue to keep and eye on her just to make sure...

fp


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## pigeonlover01 (Feb 9, 2005)

*INjured pigeon update!*

my pigeon has now found a mate. and it is flying around normally . a hawk tried to catch her yesterday but some crows scared the coopershawk away 
its 
doind great


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