# I need help with newly hatched chicks- in UK



## nikki.coombe (Jul 18, 2008)

hello to all i am nikki from essex in the uk the. I am new to this bird , i am a great animal lover with a large ammount of knowledge on animals ,and have many pets . and for some strange reason all animals i have know ,wild or pets seem sense this .But today i have a little concern my daughter of 8 brung home 2 pigeons literally just hatched no parents around made sure of no parents by waiting around for an hour an a half, these chicks are now almost 4 hours old i am keeping them warm, an have seen that i can feed them babys milk. I have the equiptment to feed them .They seem to be ok but one is weaker than the other not lifeless but very quiet. the other seems very lively now i have cared for many small birds but not as young as these an as a rule i can say that the birds i have had this young have not survived the night .But the situation is different they had been attacked or distressed. These have not, please can anyone give as much info on what to do to try an save these little chicks x i enclose a picture







[EMAIL="[email protected] let me know if i have not entered pic


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Nikki, I will go see if I can get a response from some of our members in your country..........hold on...............


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

While we're waiting........here's a thread that you can read. I've also asked a moderator to move your post into it's own thread so more people will see it. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9918


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hello Nikki

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your concern over these babies.

First off, don't feed them any milk. Their digestive system simply won't tolerate it. We have a number of members in the UK and I'm not sure any are still up but I will PM a member anyhow and see if they can help you.

Ideally, you need to feed them a baby bird formula such as Exact. In the interim until you can get the right kind of food, you can soak cat or dog food pellets until soft but not soggy, break into bits and place them to the back of the babies' throats making sure it goes past the air hole. I expect about 7-8 pea sized pieces will be enough. You will not need to give them water because enough water is in the soaked food.

Keep them warm. If you have a heating pad, you can put it on medium or low and place under the nest you made, with a towel on top of the pad so they won't get too hot. Your nest looks nice and comfy.

How long have they gone without food?


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nikki.coombe,




If at all possible, these should be returned to the Nest and to their Parents.


If it is not possible, it is going to be a tough row to Hoe.


Personally, I LOVE raising any Pigeon or Dove Babys once they are three or four days old, when no other option for them is possible I mean...

But new Borns are very tough to do...and I dread occasions of it.


Their diet, for the first five days, would normally consist of 'Pigeon Milk', and we have little chance of duplicating it well enough, even though some people do manage to pull it off and to raise such infants to maturity.


One such 'formula' could be made based on any usual powdered Baby Bird formula mix, sold for 'Hand Rearing' various species such as Parrots or their kin.

One would mix it thoroughly with clean cool Water and maybe a tiny drop or two of fresh Olive Oil if making say an scant ounce or so ( though they willnot eat that much in a day ) , and a little fine powderes Malt powder maybe, and a slug of 'Nutrical' or it's UK equivelent...


One warms it then in a Pan of moderatly hot water, stirring constantly, and serves it at "body temperature", 'thin' as melted Ice Cream on a hot day...


... and I'd let them eat using the cut off and of a regaular people-baby nursing Nipple or 'Teat', putting the liquid formula into the Hollow side of the 'Teat', for them ot puttheir little Beak into to eat, since these Babys normally eat by interting their tiny Beaks into the mouth of their parent.


If at all possible, the best thing would be if they could be returned to their Pigeon Parents, so do assay that as best you can..!



Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

These infants are not able to make their own body heat yet...so they have to be kept so their core temperature is around 100 - 103 degrees Farenheit, and chill ( even being kept at 90 degrees) will soon hurt them or cause them to die...so, find a way to have them be warm through and through ( if they are panting they are over-warm ) ...while you work on whatever else for now...


Phil
l v


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Nikki...I have Cynthia's number in the UK. I'm going to send it to you via private message. I suspect that is who Renee was trying to get a hold of.
I have raised many babies from just hatched and so it can be done. The very best of course would be to return them to the nest but I realize it's dark where you are. She has told me it's ok to give her number out in an emergency and I think she would think of this as just that.


----------



## nikki.coombe (Jul 18, 2008)

hi maggie still tring to get use to this site thanks for your feed back an advice they have not fed at all yet i am going to see if they will have some now they seem to comfortable enough i have no exact or bird milk but i shall do as you suggested with the dog pellets thanks let you know how they get on http://http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/clientscript/ieprompt.html?[/


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a thread that gives a recipe for a homemade crop milk substitute:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/macmilk-crop-milk-substitute-15236.html

Pidgey


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

The poor babies are so small and I don't know what their chances of survival are. I have in the house Kaytee exact for baby birds and NutriBird A21 and that is for baby birds, I have plenty in the house. I can send you some today if you give me your address , if I send it today luckily will arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

chriss80 said:


> The poor babies are so small and I don't know what their chances of survival are. I have in the house Kaytee exact for baby birds and NutriBird A21 and that is for baby birds, I have plenty in the house. I can send you some today if you give me your address , if I send it today luckily will arrive tomorrow.


Her email address is in the first post. Please try emailing her.The babies can survive if provided the correct temperature and food.


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Charis, I just emaild her trough here and to her email too.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

chriss80 said:


> Hi Charis, I just emaild her trough here and to her email too.


That's great. Thank you.


----------



## birdbum (Jan 26, 2004)

One thing that I have done when trying to feed squabs when they needed it is that I will take a plastic zip-loc bag and cut a hole big enough for their beaks to fit through and fill it with their food. Then I'll hold it up close to them and put their beak gently inside and hold it up so they can eat. You have to make sure that you're not going to drown them in it though, so give them a break every few seconds so they can breathe. I find it easier than trying to force open their beaks and stick things into their mouths to feed them because they're more willing to eat out of a makeshift beak and crop, aka the zip-loc baggy. 
Good Luck!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Phil, What is the equivalent of a slug of nutrical? I can see there could be some confusion as to how much that is.
Can you please provide any information that a newly hatched baby bird should be given olive oil? I've never heard that before until you posted it in MrsM thread about the hatchling dove. It would be good to know where you got your information so if I'm doing it incorrectly, I can mend my ways.


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I just got the address emailed and I will be sending the bird food today. Now I have no idea if the postoffice has any option on delivering the parcel for tomorrow because is Sunday. If not it it will arrive on Monday.


----------



## nikki.coombe (Jul 18, 2008)

hello again
now im getting a little confused in regards to any foods i can give babys untill i have the proper feed can you tell me what foods i can give these chicks for now x
thanks nik


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

nikki.coombe said:


> hello again
> now im getting a little confused in regards to any foods i can give babys untill i have the proper feed can you tell me what foods i can give these chicks for now x
> thanks nik


Hi Nik .. Yeah .. you've had a bunch of information sent to you, huh? You can feed thawed frozen green peas or corn, small bits of dry dog or cat food that has been soaked in water, or human baby cereal .. the type that is flakes that you mix with hot water. The human baby cereal you need to feed by eyedropper or syringe .. the other stuff .. just use your fingers  Best of luck to you with these two very tiny babies!

When you actually get the Kaytee Exact, then that is what you want to feed and by syringe or eyedropper.

Terry


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

MacMilk: Crop Milk Replacer Recipe

1 jar (71 grams) strained chicken baby food
1 hard-boiled egg yolk (16.6 grams)
1 tablespoon low-fat yogurt (15.3 grams)
¼ teaspoon corn oil (1.13 grams)
247.6 mg calcium carbonate
2 drops cod-liver oil (from gel cap)
1 drop vitamin E (diluted 1:10 in corn oil; see notes)
1 small pinch vitamin B complex (see notes)
25 mg. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)

For birds days 1 to 3, digestive enzymes (see notes)

Method: Mix all ingredients in a blender. Allow the digestive enzymes to work on the food for ½ hour before using at room temperature. Warm it to 'wrist' temperature before feeding.

Note: because the replacer offers more calories and is more bioavailable than other diets, you may require less than you are used to feeding. Weigh the bird, calculate its energy
requirements and feed accordingly.

MacMilk® Astrid MacLeod and Janine Perlman, 2001©

NOTES

Vitamins: Vitamin E, as purchased, is too 'strong' for the correction required in this diet. Mix one drop of vitamin E (from a 400 IU/ capsule) with 10 drops of corn oil. Shake or stir well. Then, use 1 drop of the diluted vitamin E in the recipe. The remainder can be kept in an airtight container and stored in a cool, dark place. It can be used over the next few days -. Because vitamin E degrades, it will have to be mixed fresh after a
few days, so don't make too much at once. The amount of B complex required is too small to weigh on a gram scale. The amount required for this recipe is a pinch the size of one sesame seed.

Enzymes: Hatchling doves do not have high enough levels of proteases and other enzymes to digest foods well. Although crop milk is high in protein, as described earlier in this section, some of the protein is in the form of 'free amino acids' - thus, already broken down. This is one of the reasons that raising hatchling doves has been very difficult in the past. We can break down the protein in the crop milk replacer by adding digestive enzymes.

Birds days one to three: digestive enzymes must be added to all hatchling diets, and can be discontinued after day three, when the bird's own digestive enzymes are at higher levels. Pancrezyme can be purchased from a veterinary clinic. Enzymes from the health food store probably will not be effective. Because enzymes are required for hatchling diets and in emaciation protocol, they are good to have on hand.

Method: You will require 1/8 teaspoon of enzymes for one recipe of MacMilk. Mix the enzymes with the food 30 minutes before feeding, to allow the enzymes to work on the food. Do not mix enzymes with the day's ration of food - only with what will be used in the next feeding. Otherwise, the diet will spoil. You will have to estimate how much of a recipe of MacMilk you require per feeding based on the number of hatchlings you have to feed. Then, add the enzymes as needed; for example, if you will be using 1/8th recipe of MacMilk,
use a small pinch of enzymes (1/8th the amount of what is required for the whole recipe). To do this, take the amount of food that you'll need for the next feeding and mix it with the enzymes. Let the food sit for 30 minutes before feeding, so that the enzymes can work on the food.

Columbids Day Four and Later: Discontinue the addition of enzymes to MacMilk. Some species begin to mix crop milk with regurgitated (partially digested) seeds or grains sooner than others. Generally, the rule of thumb might be to use crop milk replacer for at least the first week of life, and begin to gradually mix in other foods
over a period of two weeks. During the first days of new additions, the baby bird will not yet be digesting all the carbohydrates, and the high-protein food is still needed for growth and feathering, thus a gradual changeover is necessary. Good choices might be Exact® with gradual additions of foods like mixed-cereal pablum with an added tablespoon of strained baby food corn. 

Feeding technique: To feed older nestling doves, one method allows the baby to 'root'. Pull up formula in a large feeding syringe and then remove the plunger. Across the wide opening of the syringe (not the tip), stretch a piece of vet wrap or rubber dam (used by dentists) that has a hole to accommodate the bull. Secure well with a rubber band. The bird will thrust its bill into the opening and 'drink', much as it does from its parent. These methods can be
messy until you acquire a technique; wipe up any formula on the baby with a Q-tip dipped in warm water.

Some rehabbers prefer to feed nestling doves and pigeons with a tube and syringe. This does take practice; the tube must slide down the side of the throat without getting any fluid into the tracheal opening. Instructions for tube feeding can be found in the fluid therapy section of this manual. As a rehabilitator's tube-feeding skills develop, the amount of formula the doves take at various ages follows a pattern. Although a rehabilitator may attempt to feed quickly at the height of baby season, haste can have serious consequences. Always go slowly when emptying the contents of the syringe into the bird's crop, especially with newly presented birds. Every so often a dove will have a smaller crop capacity than normal and the excess formula can aspirate the bird.

When using a tube and syringe to feed or hydrate any bird, make sure the tubing is soft and flexible. Medical grade tubing is expensive but worth every penny to prevent harm to delicate tissue in the throat and crop.

To prevent impaction, It is very important that the crop be allowed to fully empty before it is filled again. The crop is very noticeable as a sort of pouch that overlays the breastbone. After feeding, the crop should not be hard to the touch. Feed only enough to fill the crop ¾ full -- this feels similar to a hot water bottle that is ¾ full. An impacted crop results when the crop becomes too full for the normal passage of food.

Since doves have larger crops than gaping birds, they do not have to be fed as often. The rule of thumb for doves in their first week of life would be 4 feedings per day, and as the bird moves towards weaning, going to 3 feedings per day and gradually weaning to 2.


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I personally have no idea what strained chicken baby food is or where could it be found but manny of the ingredients seem easaly available. 

Maybe porridge oats with what can be gathered from the rest of the ingredients all blended in togheter finely in a mixer or something , just a thought I am not sure and other peopel should give more ideeas.. Any sugestions anyone?

Nikki you should really call Cyhthia, let the phone ring for ages as she sometimes takes her time to answer from my experience. You have her number?


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Charis said:


> Phil, What is the equivalent of a slug of nutrical? I can see there could be some confusion as to how much that is.
> Can you please provide any information that a newly hatched baby bird should be given olive oil? I've never heard that before until you posted it in MrsM thread about the hatchling dove. It would be good to know where you got your information so if I'm doing it incorrectly, I can mend my ways.




Hi Charis, 



I would personally much rather that qualified people in England would be helping this Poster, since products here in the States can be very different than those over there, or products well known here may not be available in England, and those Forum Members who are in England, would know what products are available over there, and, how to use them wisely.



But, for general information which I hope does not complicate matters for this thread, to answer your question...


Olive Oil is a Vegetative 'fat'...it digests easily, promotes assimilation of Vitamins and Minerals of whatever other foods are present...and has 'slow' Calories useful to the Baby Bird's ( or older Bird's ) metabolism...and probably aids on how the formula - in this case - passes the Crop.


Ask your Vet..!


He'll or she'll tell you 


A drop of Olive Oil, added to half a volumetric 'Ounce' of mixed Formula, would be about how I would tend to do it...or, "two" drops to a volumetric 'Ounce' there-abouts...and mix in well of course.



It is also good to add very 'lightly' to Whole Seeds for Pigeons or Doves who are pecking and self feeding, or for one's "Seed-Pops" to those who for whatever reason, are not pecking on their own...whether or not one also adds powdered suppliments additionally, which with the light 'glisten' of Olive Oil on the Seeds, such powdered suppliments will stick to the Seeds and be eaten then along with them, where otherwise they are less easy for the Bird to consume, especially when not Water soluable.


Olive Oil and the details concerning it are good for us all to know and make use of for the well being of our Birds.


The more it is discussed, the better apprised we all may be.




Anyway...



Oh...the equivelent of a 'slug' of 'Nutrical' is of course dependant on how big a 'Slug' one is talking about...in order for that particular quantity to be converted into Millilitres or Milligrammes, or meeted out as either...or whatever, as one may please.


As for trying to generalize, about all one could say, is that a BIG 'Slug' is a lot bigger than a really small one, and, a 'medium' slug can be figured as being around the half way mark between the respective two...with however any sub-gradations one wishes going either way.


Personally? I use whatever size 'Slug' seems to suit the size batch of formula I am making...

So, in my use of 'Nutrical', the percentage it may occupy of a given formula, can range anywhere from sixty percent to fifteen percent, depending on the situation, of whatever size batch of formula I happen to make for the needs or respective needs at hand...and as a percentage, one is not trying to quanitify it or any other ingredients, in volumetric or weight terms.


It's flexible...


Some Avian Vets had told me one could probably use only 'Nutrical' for infant or especially frail or emaciated convelesent Doves or Pigeons, and be fine...be excellent even...if of course one would tend to thin it with Water, Juice or as may be...but that the overall Calorie intake per-day, in cases of delicay or frailty, ought be in some respect to the patient's weight, and age, generally, so one would not wish to over-do it's use, or any hgh-calorie food's use in especially emaciated, frail or delicate patients.



Anyway, I have long used 'Nutrical' as an ingredient which I add to various formulas for Pigeons or Doves of all ages, who for whatever reason require to be on 'formula'.


The Vets I have talked with about it all spoken highly of it's virtues.


Possibly you could share some of the things you feel are useful in formula making also?


If you are not familiar with these two items, maybe there are other items you are familiar with, and like to use, add, or feel are worth recommending.




Phil
l v


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

HI Nikki,

Please feel free to telephone me.

The babies need enzymes to digest their food in the first three days of life. They will normally get this from their parents, but hand raising formulas like Nutribird and Keytee Exact have these enzymes. Another excellent food for hand rearing is chick crumbs, soaked in hot (not boiling) water for 30 minutes, liquidised. sieved three times and (at this age) served very thin at 39 degrees.

Dog biscuits might be too heavy for a hatchling, but you can use Ready Brek, made with warm water and mixed to a creamy consistency. Feed every two hours, 1ml per feed on the first day. Please don't give them olive oil, these babies are far too fragile to risk. 


I know that there are sanctuaries in Essex that will take pigeons, but I am in Norwich and can meet you half way to give you some formula or to take the babies and hopefully have them adopted by my resident pigeons. Please phone.

Did you find the babies in your garden or the woods? They look like wood pigeons, could be collared doves.
Cynthia


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

There is a wild life hospital at Orsett, that is about 14 miles from Canvey Island. They have an emergency number that you can telephone:

http://www.southessexwildlife.org.uk/about.htm

Cynthia


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Just a quick update, 

The parcel has been sent hours ago and will arrive on Monday.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you Chris. Do you know if the babies are still well?



> personally have no idea what strained chicken baby food is or where could it be found but manny of the ingredients seem easaly available.
> 
> Maybe porridge oats with what can be gathered from the rest of the ingredients all blended in togheter finely in a mixer or something , just a thought I am not sure and other peopel should give more ideeas.. Any sugestions anyone?


Heinz infant chicken in a jar is suitable. The recipe that Pidgey listed is really the best, and if possible I would go for as many of those ingredients as can be found. Ready Brek and Porridge Oats are products that can be found late at night and on Sundays in the UK and that can be mixed to the right consistency for hatchlings, which is why I recommend those...but enzymes are required for the proper digestion of the food, otherwise the baby is undernourished and that is where baby bird formulas such as Kaytee Exact and Nutribird are so useful.

This is another hand rearing formula for pigeons that is available in the UK: Neocare http://willyfogg.com/p222316/vetafarm_neocare_hand_rearing_food_25_kg/

Cynthia


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Hi Cynthia, I have no news.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cristina,

What were you doing up and posting at 4:22 am?

Nikki telephoned me yesterday, the babies are well, they are being fed soaked dog biscuits and are digesting them well. If the food doesn't arrive by today's post she will go and look for some locally.

Cynthia


----------



## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Cynthia , I am sleep at the most peculiar hours and awake, I can’t sleep normally!
I am glad the birds are all right and I am glad that the dog biscuits are keeping them going.
I really do hope that parcel is arriving today. 

I have sent some Kaytee Exact its original instructions. I hope she will understand the haw to prepare it.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Cynthia , I am sleep at the most peculiar hours and awake, I can’t sleep normally!


I have that problem, but nowadays instead of logging on to pigeon talk I sneak downstairs and get an ice cream - Haagen Daz in a cornet!  I am losing weight at the moment (very gradually) and although I am still overweight I feel I can get away with my witching hour snacks.

Cynthia


----------

