# Dove Season



## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

For a lot of areas dove season starts this week. You might want to leave birds in the first few days of the season. Sorry if there is a already a dove season thread out there, I didn't see one, and wanted to spread the word.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Yep, starts at 12 noon saturday here.Birds will be on lock down all weekend,also monday being labor day many will be hunting all day,it starts falling off after that some will hunt on the 11th and there will be some people out hunting from time to time but it gets alittle better after that. Jeff


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't let my birds fly during dove season as there are grain fields within a mile of my loft. If I remember correctly, it starts Sep 1 here in California, which is tomorrow.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I was just thinking that same thing.... good reminder.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

Didn't know dove hunters shot pigeons ? Not concerned my birds are trained to fly close to my loft & bldgs no hunters near bldgs.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Ross Howard said:


> Didn't know dove hunters shot pigeons ? Not concerned my birds are trained to fly close to my loft & bldgs no hunters near bldgs.


Well, you can't tell if the bird is a 100ft. above you if its a dove or pigeon, unless you ask it. Thats like New York State where you can hunt ruffed grouse but not spruce grouse, if I'm a hunter what am I supposed to do ask it what type it is before a dog flushes it out? Kinda went off topic but I'm sure you get the point.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Responsible hunters will not shoot pigeons, but I am sure that there are some who may get bored and decide to take out a pigeon if they see them flying.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Not to arue with you First to Hatch, but I used to be a hunter, and I could definitely tell the difference between a pigeon and a dove, not only because of the difference in size, but their flight motions are quite different.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Here you have to fly in the morning. You cant hunt till 12 noon each day. I live within 1/4 mile from orchards hunters are close.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Why???? Because it is dove season, not pigeon season!!!


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

First To Hatch said:


> Well, you can't tell if the bird is a 100ft. above you if its a dove or pigeon, unless you ask it. Thats like New York State where you can hunt ruffed grouse but not spruce grouse, if I'm a hunter what am I supposed to do ask it what type it is before a dog flushes it out? Kinda went off topic but I'm sure you get the point.


You can tell a pigeon from a dove from 100ft. They just love killing whatever they can get away with. My dad used to drive the combine truck back in the 70's and 80's and he said you'd hear the gun shots going off in the distance when you let the birds out. He said at the one station in PA some where if you went in the diner almost all the ppl would leave to get set up to shoot down as many birds as they could. He said the waitress told him that once they're done they'd come back to the diner with necklaces of pigeon bands and compair who had gotten the most.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Just curious Ted P, do you happen to live in Hesperia?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Just wanted to throw in a couple things...I am from Kansas originally, born and raised. Hunting is HUGE there. When hunters are paying 1000's of dollars for a weekend just to get on land, they are going to shoot at anything that fly's, definitely not right but thats how they do it. Also, in MOST areas it IS against the law to shoot homing pigeons, problem is getting a game warden that will inforce it as they have so many other problems to deal with. Also, our race season often times started the first weekend of dove season, I never lost a bird that I considered to be a good one on that first race, and never had any come back shot up. Not to say that some of them I did lose weren't shot, but none that I thought for sure would come home. Only birds I ever knew for sure had been shot, they were in the aviary and some dang little neighbor kids with BB guns shot them, talk about being PISSED off.


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## Ted P (May 30, 2010)

bbcdon said:


> Just curious Ted P, do you happen to live in Hesperia?


No, I'm in N.C.. Pigeons are not a protected bird here.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> Not to arue with you First to Hatch, but I used to be a hunter, and I could definitely tell the difference between a pigeon and a dove, not only because of the difference in size, but their flight motions are quite different.


No argument as I was typing that I was thinking "wouldn't they be able to tell" figured they would but idk I started thinking about all the hunters complaining about the grouse thing where I work and related it to pigeons and doves. Just wondering bbdon did you ever get that PM I sent you a few weeks back?

Thanks,
Shokri


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I am sure it depends on your area. For me it sounded like 4th of July this morning. I was only outside for about thirty minutes. I bet there was not a three minute period that didn't have gun shots somewhere that I could hear.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

I have a friend who shoots and he says you can tell the difference between a dove and a pigeon and also a wood pigeon and a domestic pigeon in flight .Unfortunately you are always going to get the irresponsible hunter in all parties.Dont see how -people can enjoy murdering an animal under any circumstances myself.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pigeons can be killed here all year long, Doves season puts more people out there with guns, so if they see a pigeon some will shoot at it, reguardless if they think they should or not the law says they can. We just need to to keep our birds up and safe as possible.


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## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> *They* just love killing whatever they can get away with.





Matt Bell said:


> ..*they* are going to shoot at anything that fly's, definitely not right but thats how *they* do it.


Oh no not *THEY*! I am sorry but I am a hunter and I live in a very large population of hunters. No of US would shoot a pigeon. Most of the people who think that hunters just indiscriminately kill things are idiots.

I will agree that there might be a couple of people out there that are like that but they are not hunters. 

So taken that there are millions of responsible hunters it is completely irresponsible to categorize and try to put this stereo type on hunters to try make your self look like a better person or push an agenda


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Lol, wow, I also am a hunter, how else would you like for me to word it? Geez you seem like the kid in 'Remember the Titans' 'Them, what do you mean them?'


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

newtobirds said:


> Oh no not *THEY*! I am sorry but I am a hunter and I live in a very large population of hunters. No of US would shoot a pigeon. Most of the people who think that hunters just indiscriminately kill things are idiots.
> 
> I will agree that there might be a couple of people out there that are like that but they are not hunters.
> 
> So taken that there are millions of responsible hunters it is completely irresponsible to categorize and try to put this stereo type on hunters to try make your self look like a better person or push an agenda


Im glad your not one of those hunters that shoots at anything that flys by... but it does happen and more than you think..I know of a couple myself.. I do think they are talking of the ones that do... not you...so do not take it personal.. your one of the good ones... but even if someone did take a shot at a pigeon here in VA it is perfectly legal..so hunters really do not have a reason NOT TO, so keep your domestic pigeons up safe and sound, that is all there is to this thread...just a reminder.


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## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

I know I get riled up, Yesterday I had to walk through a picket line of PETA/vegans, with my 12 year old son, who were yelling obscenities at him because we were renewing his hunting license.
I am getting tired of hunters being bashed. Sorry if went over the edge.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

newtobirds said:


> I know I get riled up, Yesterday I had to walk through a picket line of PETA/vegans, with my 12 year old son, who were yelling obscenities at him because we were renewing his hunting license.
> I am getting tired of hunters being bashed. Sorry if went over the edge.


no worries, life is too short to get all bent out of shape or make a choice to let yourself get riled up.. your son will learn from your calmness how to handle things.. Im sure someone will still give you some flak here so ... either you can keep it going or not take part... I think you know the wise thing to do....lol.. have to remember this is a pro pigeon/animal site...at which the case of the hunter is not understood well.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

There is NO Season on pigeons you can hunt them any time of the year here i Georgia but I dont cause I love to raise them to watch I would never shoot a pigeon


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

bbcdon said:


> I don't let my birds fly during dove season as there are grain fields within a mile of my loft. If I remember correctly, it starts Sep 1 here in California, which is tomorrow.


*There are two dove seasons in California the second one is late NOV. into DEC. That is the time that many of the one loft races are held.* .GEORGE


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

One of the guys here at work is a "dove hunter". He jokes about the pigeons, but was very clear that "there is no pride in getting a pigeon". His clarification was that the smaller target is what sets "sports men from hunters". Then again he doesn't actually go into the field for doves anymore, but shoots skeet at the local range. He says it is nicer for him and he doesn't feel so bad doing his "dove hunting" this way. 

He does hunt for other food game. Makes a mean venison jerky.


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## Action (Oct 18, 2009)

*Home*

Mine are all home from 60 today-I guess the Dove hunters missed today or my Pigeons are just to fast
Jack


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*what These Dove Hunter Do Not Know Is That Many Of The Race Birds That They Might Shoot Have Been Treated With Antibiotic And That Could Be Harmful To Their The (hunters) Health.* George


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

First To Hatch said:


> Well, you can't tell if the bird is a 100ft. above you if its a dove or pigeon, unless you ask it. Thats like New York State where you can hunt ruffed grouse but not spruce grouse, if I'm a hunter what am I supposed to do ask it what type it is before a dog flushes it out? Kinda went off topic but I'm sure you get the point.


I guess your talken about shooters not hunters 1st there is a definite sound & silouette difference between a pigeon & a dove at any distance & 2nd 100ft is a fair distance to try & bring down a fast moving dove with bird shot. 
As a hunter I would hesitate at the shot. But as I said I feed mine accordingly to keep them close to home where no hunters are.


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## WildFlush (Feb 17, 2010)

It is nice to see so many hunters respond to this thread. I shutter to think where we would be without their eye and $$$$$ toward conservation. The amount of habitat that has been preserved by them so that they can enjoy their passion benefits us all. If that means that they have to harvest the excess, so be it. Hunting has been proven to be the most scientific and affordable means of wildlife management. The fact that they're paying money into the state's coufers to do so - bonus. 

PS. anybody that can't tell the difference between a pigeon and a dove probably has never seen one or the other.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

WildFlush said:


> It is nice to see so many hunters respond to this thread. I shutter to think where we would be without their eye and $$$$$ toward conservation. The amount of habitat that has been preserved by them so that they can enjoy their passion benefits us all. If that means that they have to harvest the excess, so be it. Hunting has been proven to be the most scientific and affordable means of wildlife management. The fact that they're paying money into the state's coufers to do so - bonus.
> 
> PS. anybody that can't tell the difference between a pigeon and a dove probably has never seen one or the other.


I agree, because of hunting, my husband and I do not have to buy supermarket meat, and not put money into an industry where Im not happy the way the animals are kept and what feed is given to them to save a buck..... it is the ultimate free range... and the monies go back into the environment to keep our wildlife thriving!


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> keep your domestic pigeons up safe and sound, that is all there is to this thread...just a reminder.


I did not want to start a pro or anti hunting thread. As spirit wings said the point was just a reminder of the start of the season. 

For the record, I am also a hunter and that is actually how I came into racing pigeons. I had/have german shorthairs, an acquaintance from work gave me several birds to rehome to use to train my dog. About a week later that particular shorthair was killed running across the road chasing a coyote.

I was not sure what to do with the birds, and stumbled across the AU on an internet search. I have been hooked ever since.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I 'm not surprised by some of the threads posted. If you were the person that was trainning your birds and out of 70 + birds half came home 4 hours after you let them go , you might think a little different . I know it was a hunters that shot up my birds because one made it home with both leg hit with shot. He is now raptsured to heaven because of his wounds. I would say I was once a hunter but now I 'm not sure . I think a few bad apples spoil it for everyone. Some hunters think you can shoot pigeons leagle but with PEDA and mindless killing of other peoples birds you just might be contributing to the end of your sport as well. So think twice before you blast away at anything that flyes .
I losted 20 + birds today on a 40 mile toss that should have taken my birds 45 minutes to cone home. I was looking for the law in Wisconsin but did not find anything . I did read a talk wed site about this problem in Texas ,dated 2006 and it seams like this hunting site was all in favor of killing everything that flyes, even homing pigeons . Does anyone know the law for Wisconsin?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here, dove season started Saturday at 12pm. No hunting on sundays, so we trained yesterday without a problem. Starting today though, you can hunt at sunrise. I've heard shots all day from all directions. We are surrounded by crop fields. I wish I could have trained today but we can't because of the hunters.
It most definitely is not because they can't tell the difference. It's because they don't care. Some people will shoot anything because now they have an excuse. Plus a lot of old farmers would allow/pay people to come shoot the pigeons out of their barns. I'm sure now people think the only pigeons flying over their fields are ferals and it doesn't matter. But they are wrong.

If I get another bird home with shot holes in its feathers/body, I don't know what I'll do. I've already put an article in the paper last year. The news maybe? I think if people were educated, we wouldn't have as big of a problem. I'm sure they would be pissed if I shot their hunting dogs, and then neglected to tell them when I found a collar. So they shouldn't blame us when we get mad because they shoot our pigeons and neglect to inform us when they see the bird is banded. If a bird is shot dead, then there isn't anything I can do about it. But I would like to know what happened to it. 
I have seen videos on youtube where people go pigeon hunting (which there are seasons for them in other countries) and they acted like they won a million dollars every time they brought down a banded bird.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You can shoot pigeons anywhere, as they aren't protected. But that still doesn't make it right. It isn't like racers are causing them problems personally, they just happen to be flying over the field at the wrong time.


I don't want to get into a hunting arguement either. I'm just stating my opinions. Like spirit wings said, it's better just to keep your birds inside. Luckily hunting will be burned out a lot more by the time we start racing on the 19th.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Here, dove season started Saturday at 12pm. No hunting on sundays, so we trained yesterday without a problem. Starting today though, you can hunt at sunrise. I've heard shots all day from all directions. We are surrounded by crop fields. I wish I could have trained today but we can't because of the hunters.
> It most definitely is not because they can't tell the difference. It's because they don't care. Some people will shoot anything because now they have an excuse. Plus a lot of old farmers would allow/pay people to come shoot the pigeons out of their barns. I'm sure now people think the only pigeons flying over their fields are ferals and it doesn't matter. But they are wrong.
> 
> If I get another bird home with shot holes in its feathers/body, I don't know what I'll do. I've already put an article in the paper last year. The news maybe? I think if people were educated, we wouldn't have as big of a problem. I'm sure they would be pissed if I shot their hunting dogs, and then neglected to tell them when I found a collar. So they shouldn't blame us when we get mad because they shoot our pigeons and neglect to inform us when they see the bird is banded. If a bird is shot dead, then there isn't anything I can do about it. But I would like to know what happened to it.
> I have seen videos on youtube where people go pigeon hunting (which there are seasons for them in other countries) and they acted like they won a million dollars every time they brought down a banded bird.


after you said about that youtube ..i when to check it out, so mess up ..some of them are racing flock
piss me off


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2010)

its true I have seen many youtube videos where people think shooting banded pigeons is like a bonus to them , its very sickening to say the least


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I lost 4 birds off of my A team yesterday to dove season. I know for sure because I picked out shot from a 5th bird that made it home covered in blood. It really stinks because the birds shot were the best on my team and they were probably out in front


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm sitting in my Agriculture class right now. Two guys in my class are talking about how many doves they got this weekend. One of them seems to be a good hunter, shooting what he is supposed to. The other is stupid  He said he killed a lot of other birds too, so I asked and that's what he said "a lot of others". Asked if there were any pigeons, and he said yes but they weren't banded  I also heard him talking about bagging chimney swifts. I asked why in the world would he want to do that, and he said because they flew over the field. In nice terms, I told him he was really stupid, and he can get in a lot of trouble for that. But of course he won't learn; I know him too well  His policy is "if it flies, it dies".

The only thing positive I got from this is that he said he'd tell me if he bagged a banded bird and tell me the band numbers. Then I can let the owner know and they can take it up with him. If it's mine though........


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

All:

As many of you have correctly surmised, there are dirtbags everywhere, in every sport. Most ethical hunters would never dream of taking off-game during a specific season. It's as wrong to paint all hunters with the broad brush as it is to assume stupid people will not do stupid things when given a chance.

But, people see the bad 1%'ers and assume all are like them. Thankfully, most aren't.

As for the banded issue, I'm sure that goes back to waterfowl hunting, where banded birds are indeed considered trophies. Wildlife authorities want to know when a banded bird is taken, as it gives them valuable data about age, migration paths, etc. So, there is an expectation that the game will be harvested, and a responsibility to report it.

Not a justification for shooting a pigeon out of season or recklessly, I know- I'd like to think that most people don't know that the band represents private ownership of a prized race bird or pet... If they know that and do it anyway, they are a dirtbag... they just happen to be a dirtbag that has purchased a hunting license. They are in no way an ethical hunter.

JMHO,

Don


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I don't know why dove hunters even bother to hunt. Doves are so small that it would take a barrel of them to make a meal. They should save their money and buy a good steak. Do they actually dress them out an eat them? It's probably more about the hunt than the meal.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

grifter said:


> I don't know why dove hunters even bother to hunt. Doves are so small that it would take a barrel of them to make a meal. They should save their money and buy a good steak. Do they actually dress them out an eat them? It's probably more about the hunt than the meal.


Yes they do you eat the breast meat. In my opinion there are bad apples in everything. There are bad hunters and there are bad loft owners. The last one i visited there were dead birds laying around everywhere he just pitched them outside when they died.


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## Ted P (May 30, 2010)

Pigeons are considered a nuisance in Wisconsin, not game. We need to watch out for our birds the best we can.

As many of you have correctly surmised, there are dirtbags everywhere, in every sport. Most ethical hunters would never dream of taking off-game during a specific season. It's as wrong to paint all hunters with the broad brush as it is to assume stupid people will not do stupid things when given a chance.

But, people see the bad 1%'ers and assume all are like them. Thankfully, most aren't.

As for the banded issue, I'm sure that goes back to waterfowl hunting, where banded birds are indeed considered trophies. Wildlife authorities want to know when a banded bird is taken, as it gives them valuable data about age, migration paths, etc. So, there is an expectation that the game will be harvested, and a responsibility to report it.

Not a justification for shooting a pigeon out of season or recklessly, I know- I'd like to think that most people don't know that the band represents private ownership of a prized race bird or pet... If they know that and do it anyway, they are a dirtbag... they just happen to be a dirtbag that has purchased a hunting license. They are in no way an ethical hunter.

JMHO,

Don[/QUOTE]


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I guess I'm pretty lucky here there isn't a dove season in NY or NJ which is where I do all my training. And even if they did have a season I'm pretty sure there isn't gonna be hunters shooting at doves or pigeons in the highly populated areas that my birds fly over in NY and NJ. The time we have to worry is on race day when they go up in the rural areas in PA.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

grifter said:


> I don't know why dove hunters even bother to hunt. Doves are so small that it would take a barrel of them to make a meal. They should save their money and buy a good steak. Do they actually dress them out an eat them? It's probably more about the hunt than the meal.


IMHO, any good hunter would eat what he/she kills. If not for themselves, then at least out of respect for the animal. Otherwise it died for no real purpose other than the shortlived thrill. I agree it isn't worth the money, to me, but to each his own. What I really don't see worth the money, is wasting it on other birds than what is in season. Especially those with even less meat than doves 


Anyways, I just hope no one's birds get hit this season. My birds will be training tomorrow...and I'm praying none of those kids skip first period again to be in the field


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

grifter said:


> I don't know why dove hunters even bother to hunt. Doves are so small that it would take a barrel of them to make a meal. They should save their money and buy a good steak. Do they actually dress them out an eat them? It's probably more about the hunt than the meal.


Regardless of what hunters will tell you, it is never about the "meat"...it is about the fun of shooting and killing the animal. If it was just about the meat, then the meat department of any grocery stroe will have planty of meat one could buy and consume. But, please lets not turn this thread into a debate on hunting.

I had a bird show up on a lady's door step this week returning from Saturday's race, from what the lady said was a BB gun. Well, it was a pellet alright, but not from a BB gun, more like a shotgun. The bird died the next day. It was flying through the air, and gave some hunter "practice"... That is the down side of racing or training through areas where "sportsmen" get their jollies off shooting and killing racing pigeons as they fly overhead. I will bet my bottom last dollar that none of them are eaten. They are simply kicked by the way side by some hunter looking for the next thing to kill "for fun".


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## Ted P (May 30, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Regardless of what hunters will tell you, it is never about the "meat"...it is about the fun of shooting and killing the animal. If it was just about the meat, then the meat department of any grocery stroe will have planty of meat one could buy and consume. But, please lets not turn this thread into a debate on hunting.
> 
> I had a bird show up on a lady's door step this week returning from Saturday's race, from what the lady said was a BB gun. Well, it was a pellet alright, but not from a BB gun, more like a shotgun. The bird died the next day. It was flying through the air, and gave some hunter "practice"... That is the down side of racing or training through areas where "sportsmen" get their jollies off shooting and killing racing pigeons as they fly overhead. I will bet my bottom last dollar that none of them are eaten. They are simply kicked by the way side by some hunter looking for the next thing to kill "for fun".


You sound like you know an awful lot about pigeons and I enjoy most of your posts, but you really don't need to talk about all hunters being like that. It makes you sound some what ignorant. I guess your just frustrated. 
O.K., I'm done defending my hunting self.
Ted


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## WildFlush (Feb 17, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Regardless of what hunters will tell you, it is never about the "meat"...it is about the fun of shooting and killing the animal. If it was just about the meat, then the meat department of any grocery stroe will have planty of meat one could buy and consume. *But, please lets not turn this thread into a debate on hunting.*
> ".


Perhaps if you don't want to turn this into a debate on hunting, you shouldn't pontificate your views on the matter. Perhaps one doesn't wish to buy the meat that another has procured (read killed) for him/her. Perhaps he feels a real kinship to the animal and the land from which it was harvested, so much so that he wants to ensure its survival for future generations. Perhaps by becoming a part of the environment and nature he experiences a connection to it that no observer ever will. Perhaps he draws a sense of satisfaction from providing for his family. Perhaps he recognizes that by harvesting his own food he greatly reduces his carbon foot print and saves thousands of animals that would have been killed by the tractor-trailer that would have had to bring him his food. Perhaps he realizes that millions of acres of habitat are lost every year to urban sprawl and farming, just so that a family in MI can have a tomato in January. Perhaps the actuall killing of the animal is the most bitter sweet experience he will ever know. Perhaps you no nothing of which you speak about hunters.

I am sorry that your pigeon was shot. But to paint with such a broad brush is fool's logic. I know a fancier who traps and kills BsOP and mercilessly culls his flock. Am I to cast all who raise pigeons into this lot? Of course not. Nor will I do the same to hunters.


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## WildFlush (Feb 17, 2010)

grifter said:


> I don't know why dove hunters even bother to hunt. Doves are so small that it would take a barrel of them to make a meal. They should save their money and buy a good steak. Do they actually dress them out an eat them? It's probably more about the hunt than the meal.



By that logic we should also stop consuming the likes of shrimp and eggs too.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Very well said wildflush, I was gonna chime in on that point but you said it all, and much more eloquently than I could have. 

Warren you do know a heck of a lot about pigeons, probably because you have spent a great deal of time around them and in the hobby. Now, when you spend that much time about hunting, you can talk to us about it. Otherwise you are just spouting off at the mouth. Have you ever been on a hunt? If so, what kind, where at, what for?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Regardless of what hunters will tell you, it is never about the "meat"...it is about the fun of shooting and killing the animal. If it was just about the meat, then the meat department of any grocery stroe will have planty of meat one could buy and consume. But, please lets not turn this thread into a debate on hunting.
> 
> I had a bird show up on a lady's door step this week returning from Saturday's race, from what the lady said was a BB gun. Well, it was a pellet alright, but not from a BB gun, more like a shotgun. The bird died the next day. It was flying through the air, and gave some hunter "practice"... That is the down side of racing or training through areas where "sportsmen" get their jollies off shooting and killing racing pigeons as they fly overhead. I will bet my bottom last dollar that none of them are eaten. They are simply kicked by the way side by some hunter looking for the next thing to kill "for fun".


WAIT A MINUTE I take offence to your statements I am an avid hunter and have been hunting all my life. I am a master taxidermist and have had a taxidermy business for 3o years
I know about hunting and you are way off base.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Before everyone starts blowing up, consider taking it to private messages first 
I disagree with Warren too but that's okay. I'm afraid if I say something, it'll only fuel the fire, ahaha.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> ...But, please lets not turn this thread into a debate on hunting.


Right. For goodness' sake, let's not do that.

For a usually bright articulate guy, that post was just about as misinformed as it gets.

Don


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

I do not know much about anything, you boys and girls have fun


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Matt Bell said:


> Very well said wildflush, I was gonna chime in on that point but you said it all, and much more eloquently than I could have.
> 
> Warren you do know a heck of a lot about pigeons, probably because you have spent a great deal of time around them and in the hobby. Now, when you spend that much time about hunting, you can talk to us about it. Otherwise you are just spouting off at the mouth. Have you ever been on a hunt? If so, what kind, where at, what for?


Look guys, I know alot about hunting and was peppered by being in a small field with too many dove hunters, (but everyone paid their fee to be there). Most people are good hunters and then there are those who you want to be as far away as possible because they are carrying a gun. Point is doves fly very fast and it sometimes is a quick shot. Also, I too have sat in a field and watched crows, blackbirds, pigeons and a few other birds brought down by happy hunters. Are all hunters like that? NO! Are most hunters like that? NO! But we all know there are enough hunters like that to know if we fly our birds we will, not might, will lose some birds to a gun. As for the debate, why bother, we each have our opinions and they are not going to change because of this thread. So let's just take this thread for what it is, a warning. Along with hawks, wires, sunspots, weather, we now have dove season as another possibility for losing a few birds.

God Bless,
Tony


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## Noahs helper (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't know anything about dove hunting, but I have questions for those that do....
You mentioned fields...do they also hunt them in wooded hillsides, do they use dogs, and are we talking about mourning doves?
I live in the city, but curious to know if I could have a problem area nearby.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Noahs helper said:


> I don't know anything about dove hunting, but I have questions for those that do....
> You mentioned fields...do they also hunt them in wooded hillsides, do they use dogs, and are we talking about mourning doves?
> I live in the city, but curious to know if I could have a problem area nearby.


Mostly over fields and the dogs used are retrievers. Pointers are of no use in dove hunting. Wooded hillsides are for quail, grouse, and pheasant. 

Tony


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## WildFlush (Feb 17, 2010)

Big T said:


> Look guys, I know alot about hunting and was peppered by being in a small field with too many dove hunters, (but everyone paid their fee to be there). Most people are good hunters and then there are those who you want to be as far away as possible because they are carrying a gun. Point is doves fly very fast and it sometimes is a quick shot. Also, I too have sat in a field and watched crows, blackbirds, pigeons and a few other birds brought down by happy hunters. Are all hunters like that? NO! Are most hunters like that? NO! But we all know there are enough hunters like that to know if we fly our birds we will, not might, will lose some birds to a gun. As for the debate, why bother, we each have our opinions and they are not going to change because of this thread. So let's just take this thread for what it is, a warning. Along with hawks, wires, sunspots, weather, we now have dove season as another possibility for losing a few birds.
> 
> God Bless,
> Tony


Very well said. Couldn't agree more.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2010)

WildFlush said:


> Very well said. Couldn't agree more.


I too was peppered by buck shot while out with friends who do hunt during small game season and lets just say some are more eager to shoot at anything that flys by then others .. the point is nothing is going to change that fact so why do we have to fight about it here when most that are this way would never be on a pigeon site to begin with


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> I too was peppered by buck shot while out with with freinds during small game season and lets just say some are mor eeager to shoot at anything that flys by then others .. the point is nothing is going to change that fact so why do we have to fight about it hear when most that are this way would never be on a pigeon site to begin with


Very well said


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

Well... 

I agree that there is generally no justifiable need to discuss this particular topic on this particular website.

However, when people spout inflammatory, biased nonsense- other people who have been disparaged sometimes feel the need to defend themselves. 

I do appreciate the warning of the opening poster. This is the first season I have flown birds, and I did not think about the possibility of conflict with dove season.

Don


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I agree with most of what is said here but you do have a voice and writing just one letter to ducks unlimited or some other hunting group. just might help with educating people about things they do wrong. Hunter education in Wisconsin is one place to start . Teach people when they are young and maybe the lessen will stay for a life time . I 'm also thinking about talking with the DNR about this problem . We have the right to fly our pigeons just as much as a person has the right to hunt. 
I have read some old law back in the 1800s that talk about the delay of or trapping of homing pigeons. I also heard that if a person is caught with bands off someones pigeons it is a federal offence, and they can loose their hunting rights.
I have learned the hard way to not train my birds on the weekend when hunting season is open. Our club still has three races to go so I hope to have the rest of my bird fly unmolested . I did have more birds return days later so the loss was not as great as first thought . One other bird did return with a round hold in his chest, no skin or feathers .My only other wounded bird.
We can make a difference if we try . You don't have to except the way thing are , unless you just have given up and let other people push you around and make up their own rules as they go along


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Let's be polite and keep a lid on things here, folks. So far, so good .. and let's keep it that way.

Terry


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Around here most everone stops hunting after the first week.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

From the WI DNR website:

"The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources supports limited, regulated hunting of mourning doves. Sustainable hunting is one of many public uses of our natural resources managed by the department. Wisconsin has a long tradition of responsible, regulated hunting for a wide range of wildlife species. _*Hunters are required by law to use all game harvested, and may not shoot animals for sport. Hunting laws prohibit unsafe shooting practices*_."

Emphasis added. I'm not saying that bad apples do not exist. But the intent of the law is clear... shoot only the specified game, and use what you harvest. Plus- the cardinal rule taught in hunter safety classes is "safety first." Know your target, and what is behind it. If in doubt about the safety of the shot, do not shoot.

I don't personally hunt doves. But, in the groups I know that do- the social aspect of the sport, from the shoot- to the dinner afterwards (with the game taken)- is a big part of the activity.

Question though... It seems that when my birds fly, they have been very high in the sky after their initial circling/orienting flight. By the time they turn for home, they are a hundred yards plus up. Is this normal, or not?

Point is- if homing pigeons are being shot by dove hunters, what are the birds doing below 30-45 yds flight height (average shotgun range)? Since most dove hunting is over grain fields or water sources, are the pigeons landing to feed or water on their routes home? Is this usual on the longer flights? Just curious....

Don


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

State of texas used to have a law making it a 25 dollar fine per bird to shoot a racing pigeon. Could be found in the texas center info. And i said it before in past posts about dove season. Near stillwater okla. Years ago there were some people in dove season that hunted by a dry creek bed on saturdays RACE day because alot of pigeons flew over and they would shoot them THEY made the mistake of telling one of the Stillwater club members and he he asked to go with them . He did first when he got there there were alot of bands that had been cut off the killed birds. And when the pigeons sarted to fly over He then told them if they shot any or did it agin he would have them arrestewd. They stopped and never did it agin. So people do knowingly kill pigeons. BUT most hunt doves Just the few that kill what they can are enough to cause problems. So Its a risk when the birds fly But a risk most take to race. And never know when that bird did not get home.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Around here most everone stops hunting after the first week.


Same here, fortunately  Especially since deer season comes in this Saturday for bowhunters.


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## dogging_99 (Apr 21, 2009)

Ok I'm going to Chime in on this subject. In Colorado there is a season on 
Band-tailed Pigeons Sep. 1st-30th 2010 

Adult Description:
Large pigeon. 
Dark overall. 
White collar on nape. 
Tail dark gray at base, light gray across the tip. 
Feet yellow.

I'm an avid Bird Hunter, I would know the difference between a homing pigeon and a band-tailed pigeon, but I think a lot of hunters wouldn't know and mistakenly shoot a homer and the band on the leg to most would mean that the migratory routes are monitored and they would keep the band thinking it was OK to shoot and eat the pigeon.

I learn't about Homing Pigeons through the process of training my Welsh Springer Spaniel he is a flush dog and a land/water retrieving sporting dog. I have had a German Longhair pointer, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever and now have this Welsh Springer Spaniel.










All my dogs have lived to hunt it is a natural thing to do what they were bred to do. I would say these days 20% of me likes the “Wild Flush” and shotgun the bird on the “Wing”. The other 80% is for the dog watching his instincts poor out and that what I worked so hard to cultivate, no difference then us training our pigeons for the race or even the pigeon keepers that enjoy watching them loft fly and the occasional toss. Its about having a pet and wanting that pet do what it was bred to do.

I think there are a lot of pigeon fanciers that started out just like me. I have a certain respect and admiration for game birds, that is why I like pigeons they are an amazing bird. Not because they are a game bird but because they fall in the category of Heritage and helping man kind Survive through the ages. i.e. "Homing Pigeons" with settlers for meat and eggs and homing ability in WWI/WWII and the “Hunting Dog” that brought Pheasants, Quail, Chukar, Grouse etc. to the dinner table.

That being said I think Education is the best method to protect the Racing/Homing Pigeons from harm. Just today I was told by two people that are curious about this hobby and new I have Pigeons, that their was a good article in the Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16016722 That kind of information goes a long way.

Keep Them Wings Flapping,
dogging_99


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

I Raced Last Week And Lost Some Pigeons And Some Came Injured With Shot Gun Wounds ....this Sucks ...


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## fresnobirdman (Dec 27, 2008)

those that are shot are purposely shot,
any hunter can tell the diffrence between the birds and how they fly.
doves have very distice fluttering flight.


sorry to hear your birds are shot.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Thats a good article by the Denver Post. Glad to see they actually did a little reporting by getting Crazy Al and Deone Roberts to interview, instead of just any pigeon keepers.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Now I can't seem to find the law and I've been looking for the past few days After 9/11 Bush signed a lot of things to law and in the middle of one of those 500 page things he signed was an order protecting racing homers. Maybe some one with more PC smarts than me can find it.

I've seen pigeons on there way home from a race they dont fly at 100ft they are usually less than 20ft and going as fast as they can.
Dave


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Participation in the Pigeon-Talk forums implies agreement with the following:

1. Pigeon Talk forums offer support, empowerment, education and entertainment to pigeon enthusiasts in every aspect of this fancy. Since each user is responsible for their own posts, please use discretion when weighing the value of information found in these forums.

2. This is a pigeon advocate website. *Topics relating to the advocacy of hunting, killing, eating, torturing or any cruel treatment of pigeons *and/or any animal, will not be tolerated on this website. While we encourage an exchange of opinions in these forums, please note that there are specific 'Off Limit' topics that are PROHIBITED and any such posts will be be immediately removed without discussion. Off Limit topics include: 

Lethal means of control - Our discussions encourage 'humane habitat modifications'. We reject all discussions about 'lethal' means of control.

Lethal culling. We advocate only 'responsible culling' of unwanted pigeons or doves. 'Responsible culling' is defined as: Taking the responsibility for finding proper homes for your unwanted pigeons. Please do not try to give us your 'justifications' for 'lethal culling', we have heard it all. If you hold an opinion about your 'right' to 'lethal culling' of unwanted pigeons and/or any animal, please keep it to yourself.Please just go away.

Surgical Procedures. Invasive procedures on any animal should ONLY be performed by a licensed/qualified veterinary doctor. If you have an emergency situation please contact a professional for advice and treatment. There are many resources on Pigeon-Life that can help you locate professional care. Just because you may find a procedure posted on the WEB that doesn't mean it is valid or humane. 

Cruelty or torture of any animals. 
3. We require civil and ethical conduct on all forums. Personal attacks on other members, or Pigeon-Life.net itself, will not be tolerated. If asked, you will yield to the requests of the forum moderators and administrators.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In one of my previous posts, I made some statements which people who enjoy shooting animals and birds took offense to. One of my pigeons died this past week, after it managed to make it to a woman's porch looking for help from a human, after being shot by a person out enjoying his "sport". 

Their motivation is not a topic I should have mentioned. It is true I don't understand the motivation, and I confess I am ignorant as to why people would enjoy killing animals or birds. My statement made people who engage in this activity feel as though they needed to take a few shots at me and to justify this sort of activity. 

The true pigeon lovers would have said...gee Warren...sorry to hear what happened to your pigeon. The other people seemed more interested in defending the actions of the hunter or hunters who shot my bird. 

My wife Karen and I enjoy feeding these doves in our back yard, and enjoy their presence. Other people enjoy shooting them. In the cross fire, or blood lust, my poor pigeons become targets for these people. Maybe some of the same folks who here in Pa. attend the Higgens pigeon shoot maybe? 

It was not my intention to stir up those who also happen to keep pigeons in their back yard, and who also enjoy shooting their cousins. I was just a bit emotionally charged from having to drive three hours to retrieve a very promising race bird, which was nearly perfect in every way, and which had a pedigree to die for, only to have it die as a result of a gun shot wound at the hands of a hunter. I don't wish to debate this with anyone, I just wish they would stop shooting and killing my pigeons, whose only crime is flying within shotgun range. If you are not out there blasting away at people's pets, then you should not feel compelled to justify the actions of these hunters. Instead go onto the Field and Stream website and tell your hunting buddies to hold their fire, they don't have to kill everything that moves.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Warren all I can say is I hope you are a vegetarian if you really feel the way you just stated. If not, you should become one, the things that are done to animals as far as genetic modifications, pens they are kept in, drugs they are given, and then the way they are treated and butchered just so you can have a filet mignon or a steak, let alone a bowl of cereal and milk, ice cream, eggs, etc would make you never want to eat again.

I am sorry your bird died. But don't go condemning an entire sport/hobby that you know nothing about. That has happened to us pigeon racers by a group called PETA...remember how that made all of us feel. Now are there some that should be condemned by PETA, ABSOLUTELY!!! Just as there are some bad hunters. You as a pigeon flyer should not be condemned, and me as a hunter should not be condemned, we both participate in our hobby responsibly.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

Matt Bell said:


> Warren all I can say is I hope you are a vegetarian if you really feel the way you just stated. If not, you should become one, the things that are done to animals as far as genetic modifications, pens they are kept in, drugs they are given, and then the way they are treated and butchered just so you can have a filet mignon or a steak, let alone a bowl of cereal and milk, ice cream, eggs, etc would make you never want to eat again.
> 
> I am sorry your bird died. But don't go condemning an entire sport/hobby that you know nothing about. That has happened to us pigeon racers by a group called PETA...remember how that made all of us feel. Now are there some that should be condemned by PETA, ABSOLUTELY!!! Just as there are some bad hunters. You as a pigeon flyer should not be condemned, and me as a hunter should not be condemned, we both participate in our hobby responsibly.


. Ditto well said.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Can we stop arguing now?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Can we stop arguing now?


There really shouldn't be any arguments on this topic if everybody actually followed the rules of the forum in which Warren has been so kind to post in his last post.



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Participation in the Pigeon-Talk forums implies agreement with the following:
> 
> 2. This is a pigeon advocate website. *Topics relating to the advocacy of hunting, killing, eating, torturing or any cruel treatment of pigeons *and/or any animal, will not be tolerated on this website. While we encourage an exchange of opinions in these forums, please note that there are specific 'Off Limit' topics that are PROHIBITED and any such posts will be be immediately removed without discussion.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> In one of my previous posts, I made some statements which people who enjoy shooting animals and birds took offense to. One of my pigeons died this past week, after it managed to make it to a woman's porch looking for help from a human, after being shot by a person out enjoying his "sport".
> 
> Their motivation is not a topic I should have mentioned. It is true I don't understand the motivation, and I confess *I am ignorant as to why people would enjoy killing animals or birds.* My statement made people who engage in this activity feel as though they needed to take a few shots at me and to justify this sort of activity.
> 
> ...


Warren:

For not wanting to have the debate, you just keep on ratcheting up the rhetoric. Nice moderation.

I am genuinely sorry about your bird. I've lost several this year myself, all outside of any potential hunting season. It's evidently a risky hobby from the bird's perspective.

Please stop supposing what we are, or are not. I'm not happy that some jerk took a shot at your bird. That is no excuse for you continuing to take shots at us.

Best of luck to you and your birds for the remainder of the season. My advice to you is to not fly them.

Don


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Dove season brings with it not only many injured doves that were not killed outright, but also a lot of dead and injured pigeons, that is a fact. It is also a fact that people who also happen to keep pigeons in their back yard, also participate in such events. It is sad, but if that were not enough, then these same folks wish to try to convince us, that their killing is somehow justified. 
This is a pro pigeon forum, and yet they insist on debating that because we consume meat, that hunters killing whatever that happens to fly close to them is somehow ok. I disagree, but this is not a debate forum for hunters. So, as we said up front, we must now close down this thread.


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