# 1 week old baby, need help!!



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We have a 1 week old pigeon since this afternoon who hasn't really been getting fed since it was born. Aias fed it 1 cc of formula at 2pm today, the bird pooped 4 times since, but the crop doesn't seem empty he says. What to do? I just read the sticky on raising hatchlings by Helen/Nooti. We have Probios powder. Should we use that somehow?

As to why this pigeon is in this predicament....a neighbor of ours has been trying to catch a pigeon for his son to have (this man has been shown to have absurdly poor judgment repeatedly), and since that didn't work, he raided a nest which had 1 hatchling and 1 egg. In the process, he knocked over 1 egg/killed 1 baby and destroyed the nest. He then knocked on our door repeatedly on Sunday, realizing he was over his head, but Aias was away, i was alone and feeling paranoid, so I ignored the knocking, not having any idea who it was. Now that Aias is back, he showed him the baby, which Aias promptly confiscated. This man had been trying to feed formula with a syringe but had not been putting it in the crop, and the baby was in a cold air-conditioned apartment. I don't know how it has survived this long. 

Aias put the baby on the heating pad as soon as he got it, then gave some water after half an hour, then the 1 cc of formula an hour after that. 

Help!!


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Sabina, I wish I could help. All I can do is send thoughts and prayers. I'm sure the calvary will be coming soon.


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## Rocky17 (Mar 23, 2005)

Sabina, Help will be here soon. I'm new but one thing I've learned is use organic apple cider vinegar with the formula. I'm not sure how much for a baby that size. How it's lasted that long....they"re tough little tykes. Good luck with this baby. Marie


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So our main concern is the slow-emptying crop. We're about to get another feeding ready, this time adding a little ACV and Probios to the formula? We also just took some pics, will upload in next 5 minutes...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No tellin' how this one's going to turn out. Is there any way to tell how much it weighs? Or maybe dimensions?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At this size, you'll probably want to pay more attention to the poops than gauging how the crop is doing. Did you read that one little find that I came across about aerophagia?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=201905

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We just fed 2 thin ccs with some Probios powder and a drop of ACV. 
The baby's bottom is very purple. We took pics which I'm still working on uploading, but I swear, it looks more purple now than when we took the pictures.
ok pics coming soon


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok look here at pictures

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/little/


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know about the hematoma-lookin' thing but it's going to be one of those deals where the only thing to do is keep feeding him and hoping for the best.

Good luck.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok so given the baby seems more like a 3 day old baby, ie is kind of stunted with the lack of nutrition for the first week, how often should we feed? or do we just go by the crop-emptying?

as for the aerophagia issue, i thought that wasn't really relevant to tube-feeding?

you think i should take this baby to AG tomorrow? probably too much stress, i'd think with the subway and all. i'm just worried about the hematoma-sort of thing. i feel like someone posted about something like that recently (a baby with a purple bottom), unless i'm getting confused with ruffles. hmm yeah i think AG is a bad idea for this baby. 

ok going to sleep soon, in half hour or so...though aias might stay up longer...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, you've got the stuff to tube-feed something this small, eh? Well, then, the aerophagia is certainly less of a concern. Is it pooping poops with plenty of solids?

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sabina,
I agree with Nona that you need to take the baby to AG tomorrow.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Even without the bruising or hematoma thing that little one just doesn't look right to me. I would also vote for a trip to AG ASAP.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabrina,


From what I can gather, if it was me, I would focus first on half-a-day or so of rehydration, and toward the end of the half day, to have some thin nutrients ( Black Cherry or Goji Berry Juice, ) in the electrolytes, and likely for the eletrolytes to have ACV in them ( as say two and a half Tablespoons of ACV to the Gallon of Water)...then, once you see old stagnant poops comeing through, and urates comeing through, to start gently feeding...but you are already into the feeding mode...so...

I would do the raw ACV-Water ( as above, 2-1/2 to 3 Tablespoons to the Gallon ) for his drinking Water and formula mixing Water.

I have no idea what 'probios' is or are...but some fast 'googles' looks like it is some sort of processed pet food kibble, and I myself would not use it for anything like this. 

Or, it is some kind of 'Pro-Biotic' suppliment, and for this little one, something like that is for now way too soon I'd say...for the shape he is in anyway.


I would not feed much formula at a time, and what I would feed would be a mixture of some 'Hagens' or fresh 'K-T' say one measure of some kind of that, if you do not have those, use plain old fashioned not flavored 'Malto Meal'...and with three measures or so of 'Nutrical', and two of Goji-Berry-juice, and use ACV-Water to mix...even add a little 'emergency-c' or 'Airborne' even, if you have any handy...and to make the formla thin AFTER it has sat for an hour and absorbed whatever it is going to initially...stirr then, after it has sat, to add more ACV-Water then if needed for it to be 'thin'...thin like melted Ice Cream on a hot day...or even thinner.

I would just keep this one in 'Hand Nest' or against my Stomach till I myself go to sleep, and then, I'd have him in a Heating Pad Warm-Nest ( double checked to be right as far as his warmth however arranged) and or in my hand with my hand in the Warm Nest as I sleep...so he is about my own body temperature or a tiny bit more.


Has he peeped or nuzzled at all?

And, are you comfortable to feed him small meals via some soft 'tube' midway into his Crop?


He needs to be upright, or at least not on his side anyway, so prop him up if need be and or have him propped up inside your shirt against your stomach with some hankys next to him or something, so he is against your skin there...if he is on his side he can aspirate fluids from his Crop if they leak into his throat.

Ideally, they should have no food till absolutely thoroughly warm through and through, and untill their de-hydration is dealt with and they are gradually re-hydrated well enough for their system to start being on-line again, so to speak...


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabrina, 


Sorry, harried...


Looks like there are some thin poops there on the cloth in the images...

Be sure to note if any chaulky 'yellow' stains or liquids or urates, as this may be taken to signal Canker, and Canker is very common for Babys like this one is...as is Candida, which the ACV-Water will address nicely.


But if signs of Canker, then of course the Baby will need some appropriate meds, and in an appropriate dosage for his weight.


He 'looks' dehydrated to me, but I might be projecting...


Someone his size, if he was seriously dehydrated, can drink ( or be tube fed, ) easily a couple fluid ounces of electrolytes, maybe more, over the course of six hours or eight hours... just to get rehydrated enough for feeding to be started later, with 'thin' and soupy formula which also of course will contain plenty of Water and so on in it's own right...with electolytes inbetween 'meals'...


Anyway...

He might have been dropped and broke some small blood vessels for his abdomen to be having blood pooling in it, or to be contused to be purple-ish, similarly...hard to guess from here...but this likely bruised or effected his system in general, and his digestive system to some extent..so if poops are comeing through, it sure is a good sign of things trying to work.


Best wishes..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

The baby is very active, peeping and nuzzling. The crop is emptying better now. He was peeping last night too.

The baby has been pooping small smears of dark green with white.

Probios is a probiotic powder. In Nooti's instructions on hatchlings, she said the first meal should be 1 ml of probiotics or yoghurt, otherwise the digestive system wouldn't function well. 

If you all think I should take him to AG, I will. Don't have a hot-water bottle though, will have to think how to transport both birds in subway without being conspicuous. Or maybe a cab...probably about $20 each way...hmmm.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Sabina,

I would take the baby to AG as soon as you can. Perhaps you can bundle him up good in some warm towels, allowing for an air tunnel and carry him in your purse.

Thank you for all you are doing for this little one.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Oh as for tube feeding, we're using the tube AG gave us. It's pretty skinny, firm rubber, seems to fit into baby's throat and crop fine.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I seem to remember Boni Bird making some sort of nest, with a scarf
then tying it around her neck with the baby in tne nest part. The baby was close, kept warm by her body heat.
Sabina, do you have a scarf. could save you cab fare.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

those are good ideas, thanks. a peeping scarf would be entertaining, that is for sure! i'll see what i can come up with! probably the hot water bottle, towel and purse. 

and thanks phil for all your advice!


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, I do think there was a bra-stuffing smuggle by one of the ladies on this board


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabrina, 



Uhhhh...this is a little confusing -

You are feeding him 'pro-biotics', which are a suppliment...but what about actuall Food? - what actual food are you feeding him?


'smears' of dark green and white typically indicate starvation, and the 'green' is bile.


This also sounds like the youngster is not near enough to being sufficiently re-hydrated.


It is very easy to keep a young Bird "warm" by having tham against your Stomach skin, inside your Shirt, with your Shirt tucked in of course, so it makes a sort of comfortable pouch there...


This lets you have your hands free...and the Bird tends to just sleep or day dream and not move around.


I never wear seat belts and never have, so I sometimes forget others do.

I suppose the in-one's-shirt would not work well with seat belts.


What is "AG" ?

To me 'AG' is 'Attorney General'...


Good luck!


Glad to hear he is Peeping and Nuzzleing..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Well, I do think there was a bra-stuffing smuggle by one of the ladies on this board



Yes, that was quite an interesting "concept," FSZ... 

BUT, *sigh* I think that will only work _best_ for those - ah - so endowed... I rely on a fanny pack...

BEST OF EVERYTHING, Sabrina! I know you will keep us updated!!

HUGS
Shi


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, did the neighbor indicate he had dropped the baby? Looks like bruising from a fall. We had one a few years back and the vet immediately wanted to put her down but we refused and she got ok. Of course, there can be internal injuries but I would still take a chance on it doing ok.

The babies we had last spring were fed about 1 - 2 cc's Exact (not real thick either) with either Benebac (also a probiotic) or yogurt. I swear by these two products making a difference in the babies ability to tolerate the Exact better. In just 2-3 days you may be up to 5-6 cc per feeding. I don't see anything wrong with using the Probios but would limit the amount to about 1/8 tsp per Exact mixture. The Benebac comes with a measuring spoon that is about 1/4 tsp but for your little guy I would halve that. Also, Phil had recently mentioned to me that he didn't think a probiotic/yogurt combo should be used along with ACV. Maybe he'll speak to that later.

We fed them every two hours up until about 10 pm and with some of the weaker ones about 1 am. Weigh him faithfully, every day. We weighed ours sometimes twice a day and you will be amazed at how much they gain in a day.

You can increase the Exact/yogurt daily by about 1/2 - 1 cc but the best thing to do is go by the crop. Keep them warm. We usually had ours nestled in a margarine container with a pile of soft kleenex that we could change often and also covered them with a single tissue to keep them snug and warm.

I'll add my vote with the others - take her to AG - she won't know what is going on. We took our Frosty to the beach with us at that age and I kept her in my lap in soft towels with a hot water bottle at the bottom and usually my hands on top of her and she stayed warm. 

Bless you and Aias. You are fine young people.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok so back from AG (Animal General), saw Karen...the baby had some subcutaneous emphysema (probable air sac injury), she inserted a 25G needle on each side and put some pressure to get the air out. She said the hematoma should heal fine. 

She gave us some syringe cases so we could feed the baby by this method...http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm except just tipping the plastic case instead of pushing the syringe. She showed me how to do it, and the baby took 5cc. 

Phil, we're feeding Zupreem Embrace baby bird formula with a tiny bit of probiotic powder added to it (1/8 tsp is about what I've been adding, well probably less). Karen thought the poop looked fine. He has a little basket/nest with a small towel over it, which is on a heating pad, in an aquarium with a screen secured over it, to keep him safe from the cats. So he stays very warm.

The transporting was no problem, Oscar was in the carrier Nona was so kind to give us, and the baby was in my purse with a hot water bottle and towel. 

So the baby's name is Biko (after the South African revolutionary Stephen Biko).

Will update Oscar's thread now!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Biko, cute name.
I still think a peeping scarf nest would have made an interesting commute.
Think of all the looks.
I'm glad Biko is going to be ok.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks everyone for all the encouragement and kind words! 

Oh Nona, I think I went overboard with the hot water bottle. I boiled some water and got a little impatient waiting for it to cool, the bottle warped and half-collapsed, but wasn't leaking so it still worked!

So do we still have to give electrolytes/water? Or is the thin formula enough?

Maybe we'll alternate between making the formula with ACV water and a little Probios in the formula. 

At AG, Karen asked me what our plans were for the bird, and I got kinda confused. It turns out she was asking if we wanted them to raise the bird for us. I said I thought we could handle it, since Aias works from home a lot of the time. And then I said I should call Aias and make sure. She laughed and said that wasn't necessary, she already knew he'd say yes! And of course she was right!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabina, 



Glad to hear things are going well...

I also would expect his fall-injurys to heal up fine over a few weeks or sooner.


My own acceptance regarding pro-biotics, is that I would withold them as suppliments, for those Birds who may have depleted reserves or dim immune systems, since the fluara in pro-biotics ( and in K-T) can propigate into serious Yeast or Candida issues if their system is too weak or compromissed.


ACV-Water is a kind of pro-biotic in a mild and narrower way, and I have no hesitation useing it for any weak or dim Baby or other Pigeon, since it not only will head off or alleviate Candida or Crop related Yeast conditions, but also eliminates a long list of Organisms who may be trying to opportune on their weakened Systems.

ACV-Water is also an electrolyte in it's own right.


I believe that the use of ACV-Water would counter-act supplimental pro-biotics anyway, since the PH of the ACV will elminate those flaura, just as it is supposed to eliminate their same-kind or relatives which may make Candida or Yeast infections in the Crop and further.


So, my own acceptance anyway, is not to use any 'pro-biotics' as such, while a Bird is on an ACV-Water regimen...but to use them later once he is definitely strong enough and out of the woods.

Probably the 'probios' or similar flaura-and-fauna supliments are fine for Cattle or other Farm Animals, or for Mammels generally, but are not necessarily well suited for the particular conditions found in the Crops of injured, ill or compromised Columbiformes.


I do highly recommend 'Nutrical' as well as Goji Berry Juice for any very young, dim, recovering or otherwise compromised Baby or Youngster or Pigeon or Dove of any age...for these to be amply added to their basic formula...along with ACV-Water being used to mix the formula and for drinking between meals during recovery...


Oooops, people at my door...gotta run...


Good luck!

So happy to hear things went so nicely today..!




Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, I'm so glad things went well at the vet yesterday for both Biko and Oscar.

We all have different methods, ways, etc. to do anything. Personally, and I don't mean to get "anything" going with Phil, but if this was my baby I would purchase a container of plain yogurt and add about 1/4 tsp to the exact every feeding. We did have one feeding, usually in the evening, when I left off the yogurt and added Benebac powder instead. I think you could use just the yogurt and be fine. I did not use ACV at all. We raised 4 (days old) squabs and 6 newborns that way and I never had a problem with their crop. They all reached maturity and average weight at maturity about 350 grams.

I really think the key is warmth and not overfeeding.

I will be eternally grateful to Helen for the yogurt tip.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sabina,
I use the yogurt also with Exact formula and have had no problems raising babies from just hatched to eating on their own.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks for the advice, I'll get some yoghurt today. I've been alternating between 1/16th tsp Probios or 1 drop of ACV per feeding. Her poops look good, khaki with white, adult-size it seems! She is taking about 5-6cc of formula and still acts hungry. Looks like she'd eat till she exploded if we let her. She squeaks a lot. Seems to be gaining weight well. Yesterday she was 44g, today 57g. Is that a normal amount of weight gain? She started keeping her eyes open yesterday, it's very cute to see her be more alert and looking around.

She favors her left leg when she is scooting around. She can move her toes on both feet, but the right leg seems kind of gimp-like. Maybe that side got injured when she got the hematoma? The hematoma is disappearing, looks a lot better.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please give her a little kiss for me.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, terrific progress report! Yes, I think the weight is pretty good considering her age. You can gradually increase the amount each day so long as her crop goes down and poops look good - which sounds like they are. I know you love her to pieces.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Here are some pics from today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/little/


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So now we're giving 15 ml every 6 hours, which is what Helen/Nooti's instructions on handfeeding advise for 1 week old babies (this baby is about 9 days old). So far so good. This morning she weighed 65 g. Oh I thought we had been giving 5-6 cc before but really it was more like 10. So it has been a relatively gradual increase, from 5-6cc Friday to 15 today. I also am putting about 1 cc of Stonyfield yoghurt. 

Aren't the pics too cute?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, I think you are right on target with the amount of food. Weight sounds really good.

And, yes, she is a cutie for sure.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Maggie. Oh 1 thing I forgot to say--the hematoma is just about gone.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

sabina said:


> Thanks Maggie. Oh 1 thing I forgot to say--the hematoma is just about gone.


How wonderful. You're doing great.

Reti


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

about the legs, i would suggest you put it in a nest bowl or something so it wont get splayed legs.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabina,


Glad to hear things go well...!


Very good the haematoma is clearing...I am sure he is feeling so much better!


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*biko @ 2 weeks*

here is a photo of biko waiting for his morning espresso:










and a couple more here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/

biko is now a 100 grams. so, biko is eating nothing but formula, doesnt biko need any water apart from the liquid in the formula?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, not really.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The pic is so cute. He is adorable.
They are getting all the fluids they need with the formula.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Love that baby!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Aias said:


> here is a photo of biko waiting for his morning espresso:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This will depend on how 'soupy' the formula is, what the ambient humidity is, his activity level, how his system is functioning generally, and how well the formula is pre-hydrated.


Generally, if half an hour or an hour after feeding, if their Crop is soft and 'mushy', one figures they are in godd shape Water-wise...but, one can still offer tepid Water for them to drink between meals, and, if they feel they need it, they will drink, or they might deink regardless...and of one starts having plain Water being pooped-peed out, one can cut back on the amount of between meal 'drinks' to find a happy medium.

Baby poops should be decidely 'moist' and with plenty of White Urates...if they are not, then more Water definitely.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That baby is so cute. I love them at that age
Sabina, you must have quite an in door flock or your own by now.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well currently there are 3: Oscar, Simone, and the baby. Plus 4 cats. In a studio apartment. It's a little crazy all right!

So I just gave the baby 40 ml of formula since the crop wasn't full after 20. But I figure Helen's instructions say 40 ml every 8 hrs at 2 weeks, and this baby is about 10 days, so that should be ok. The crop felt fine after. We ran out of the Zupreem tonight, and the neighbor who had this baby first had bought Hagen's tropical bird baby formula. Is that ok to use?

Thanks everyone!!

Sabina


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabina,



Make sure not to have him on any slippery surfaces such as in the image, where his Legs are going to be slid out sideways.


"Hagens" in my opinion is the very best.


How much to feed, is a matter of how well and how fast the Baby processes and digests and poops...


Warm Babys or happily endothermic Babys who feel like a little furnace when in Hand-Nest, will of course digest and process their food much faster than margainally warm Babys.

Probably, whatever for them is optimum Water intake, will also facilitate food processing and digestion...


...so...


Wild Babys of course tend to be stuffed to-the-gills and kept topped off all day long, and even after that into night time at this age, and for them, Seeds in Water, with just Water at times, are the the usual from this age on.

Their Crops do no ever come close to being empty by day, and may not even empty over night.


Small whole Seeds in thin formula - if your feeding method petmits - are fine for him now...and these are a nice way to go for them, with Water inbetween meals.


Thats my appreciation...


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi Phil,
Aias only put the baby there for the picture, his legs don't look like that otherwise. We keep the baby on a towel in a plastic bowl which is on a heating pad set on low, he's always very warm. 
The poops are moist, the crop always feels soft and mushy (unless it's really full or empty). We'll start offering some water, see what the baby thinks about that.
So small seeds in the formula, huh? We'll have to get some more, one of the cats tore up our bag of small seeds and flung them all around the apartment! 
Thanks,
Sabina


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well just wanted to post an update...the baby is getting very big! Here are some pics...sorry they're out of order...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/little/

I fed her little seeds from a seed tube today, she gobbled them down. On her own, she can peck seeds and she picks them up, but doesn't swallow them. 

Our other "baby" Simone has turned into a terrible bully. I guess it's the teenager thing. She still wants to land on us but then once she does, it's all biting and being mean! I am not so fond of her at this moment, I have to say!

So I'm making sure to appreciate the cuddly sweet time with the little baby while I still can!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sabina, The baby is beyond cute. As for Simone, that's a stage they all go through. Won't last long in the scheme of things. New phase on the way.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That is one doll baby, and a great pic!!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, thanks for the update. Biko looks wonderful - already wanting to investigate things around him. Loved the pictures, especially the one with Bloo looking things over.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*biko month old photo shoot with Aias*

biko and i had a photo shoot after i came home from work:


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Check out the models! Just came home from work to find this link...I guess Aias is working on his portfolio!  
So Biko is humongous, over 300 grams. He is very picky and fussy, the most stubborn bird i've come across...he isn't eating on his own really but pulls away from the formula tube after about 5 seconds, backs himself right off the sofa/table in his vehemence. He just took a whole tube of seeds (his only feeding today), we're doing a little tough love to get him to eat on his own. And he's still gaining, so seems to be working ok.
Poor Simone is a skinny minny is comparison, only 244 grams. We're trying to get ready to release her to the roof flock, she's been eating on the roof in a cage for the last week or so. But we want to fatten her up a bit first. What should we add to her seeds? We also ordered some snap bands, we want to be able to monitor her in the flock.
Oscar is a big bird too, low 300s. I think about releasing him too, given his PMV was so mild, only lasted 2 weeks, and he's never shown symptoms since. But the winters are too risky....
So that is our update!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Looks like stardom for Biko and Aias is right around the corner  Great photos!

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Great pics, Aias, really wonderful of you and Biko. Biko is very interested in
your face, lol, and it is a very photogenic face I might add...

Sabina, I think from what I've read it might be good to hang onto your PMV
bird because of the possibility of symptom flare-ups down the road. As far as
fattening foods go, other than obvious things like sunflower seeds and foods that they like w/a high fat content, the only other way I know of to fatten
them up is w/augmented feedings involving tubing a pureed formula. You could always go that route until fattened up a bit more and then release if you wanted to. I've been using Ultimate Meal which is also powdered like
Kaytee Exact. It is Vegan and purchasable at a Natural Foods/Whole Wallet stores. I mix it half and half w/Kaytee Exact to make a more nutritional source for the bird. You don't need to use nearly as much feeding as it is sooo concentrated a formula which is why I mix it in w/the Kaytee. Another formula is to mix crushed/pureed puppy chow w/egg yolk and tube this combo to put weight onto a bird.

Here's a link on the topic of "fattening up" emaciated/sick birds with several
recipes:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18959&highlight=yolk

fp


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

thank you for the compliments! it is easy to look photogenic when u destroy all evidence to the contrary.  

and yes biko is VERY interested in my face always pecking at my face and neck.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lovely pics. Bico seems to love your face 

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, the pictures were terrific. Biko has grown so much since you got him and looks really good.

Sabina, I think I would try to get a bit more weight on Simone before releasing her. Of course, there are pigeons that are just small built but 244 gm is a little low. You might try giving her a few "more" safflour seed to help fatten her up.
I'm glad you're introducing her to the roof flock so she will recognize them and her surroundings. I know you have to release her so doing that will really help her.

About the bands - we ordered some snap-on's from Foys and tried them on our super tame Jimmy Jack. The band fit fine but her movement caused it to rub the skin off her leg after only a few hours so we took it off. If you order any try them on the pigeons a while before releasing them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pretty darn cute...both of them.


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