# disastrous first loft fly



## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I had 4 young birds that I got about 6-8 days ago. They have been trapping great for 4-5 days. I soap and watered them and set them on the landing board. We sat and watched them for about an hour and a half. Then one decided to fly a bit and went to the trampoline, I looked back to the board to see two of the others take off, never to bee seen again. When I looked back to the trampoline the first bird was gone. Out of the four, one stayed close and never really flew much but went on top of the garage. Where she is sitting still. I guess this is part of the game but it sucks when your favorite bird is gone.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Were they homers? Homers will do that to you if they werent born in the loft. Also 6-8 days is lil short for settling the birds id say 2 weeks minimum.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Nictorious Ali said:


> Were they homers? Homers will do that to you if they werent born in the loft. Also 6-8 days is lil short for settling the birds id say 2 weeks minimum.


yes they were homers, and the guy I got them from said they weren't old enough to fly off and a couple days, maybe three would be enough,to keep them locked up. I guess that's what I get for not waiting on my breeders to have young...


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Chromie said:


> yes they were homers, and the guy I got them from said they weren't old enough to fly off and a couple days, maybe three would be enough,to keep them locked up. I guess that's what I get for not waiting on my breeders to have young...


I agree that six to eight days isn't long enough. Were they squeakers when you got them? Check with the seller...they might have homed back to his loft.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

ptras said:


> Check with the seller...they might have homed back to his loft.


I was gonna try that, but they didn't even circle around, they just headed west....besides that if they homed to his loft, will they ever home here in the future, they may as well stay there if not


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Chromie said:


> I was gonna try that, but they didn't even circle around, they just headed west....besides that if they homed to his loft, will they ever home here in the future, they may as well stay there if not


Most people do not fly homers that were raised in another loft. If they were very young squeakers, you *might* be okay flying them, but there is no guarantee. The proper way to do it, is to let the birds you purchased breed, and fly their young. I'm surprised that the seller didn't tell you this.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

They will probably come back. I had a lot of birds that didn't come back for a week and they end up being my best birds. I think if they were going to head to where you got them the would not sit around. I got my foundation birds about 50 miles away and 2 got out so far and went home. I had to go get them but when they got out they were gone in a second so fast I couldn't see which direction they went. If you keep fling you will lose many bird I only have 2 left in 3 years of flying for fun


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## Noahs helper (Jul 20, 2009)

Good chance they will return. My first release was last week and it took 5 days to get all my birds back...but they did come back! Keep watching and waiting. I know exactly how you feel!


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

ptras said:


> Most people do not fly homers that were raised in another loft. If they were very young squeakers, you *might* be okay flying them, but there is no guarantee. The proper way to do it, is to let the birds you purchased breed, and fly their young. I'm surprised that the seller didn't tell you this.


he may have told me but, I have talked to so many people that it all ran together at first...I'm back to just the breeders I had, and the one white young bird, so it's all good I guess, maybe they will come home, if not I will stick to raising my own young and flying them...


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## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

Question? So when I get my first birds for my breeders they will most likely always be prisoner birds? I just assumed I could fly them after they have breed and raised their first clutch. Am I mistaken?
Sorry for hijacking your thread!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

newtobirds said:


> Question? So when I get my first birds for my breeders they will most likely always be prisoner birds? I just assumed I could fly them after they have breed and raised their first clutch. Am I mistaken?
> Sorry for hijacking your thread!


you are correct, a homer raised at the breeders loft will imprint that as home and try at some point to go back to it.. That is why they call them homers, so they have to be kept prisoner. a way around it is to fly their young or buy squeakers just weaned or no more than 40 days old and trap train them when you get them and then let them out at about 8 weeks old to get use to the place and imprint it.


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## newtobirds (Jul 30, 2010)

Great thanks! I thought that after a couple of months I could fly them also.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> or buy sqeakers just weaned or no more than 40 days old and trap train them when you get them and then let them out at about 8 weeks old to get use to the place and imprint it.


this is what I thought I was doing, but I guess I didn't wait long enough, they were trapping real good for about 3-4 days...I guess it takes longer than that, HUH.....Live and learn I guess...bet I get it right next time...


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ptras said:


> Most people do not fly homers that were raised in another loft. If they were very young squeakers, you *might* be okay flying them, but there is no guarantee. The proper way to do it, is to let the birds you purchased breed, and fly their young. I'm surprised that the seller didn't tell you this.


Most of the ppl I know fly plenty of birds from other lofts. My club has 2 big races were we get birds from all over the country. The bird that won last weeks race in my club was actually an auction bird for our LBR Auction Race and was breed in Oklahoma. I myself usually breed a bunch out on my breeders then I get another 40 either from our auction races or our classic race which is kinda like a mini convention race. Also look at all the one loft races all those birds were breed some place other then where the race is being held. 

Also your birds should have been good and ready to let out after a week if they were young enough. I'm thinking they were just too old and strong on their wing.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

newtobirds said:


> Question? So when I get my first birds for my breeders they will most likely always be prisoner birds? I just assumed I could fly them after they have breed and raised their first clutch. Am I mistaken?
> Sorry for hijacking your thread!


If you want breeders that could also be flown just get them real young and get them stuck. Then use them as breeders for next year. But if you did that I wouldn't fly them while they are breeding since there's to many dangers out there and you don't want to lose them while they are on eggs or babies. Unless you were racing them to eggs or babies then you have to let them fly.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

even old homers from another loft will stay in ur loft sometimes, but they have to had several clutches of squeakers, but even after that, some of them will leave. is a 50?50


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Also your birds should have been good and ready to let out after a week if they were young enough. I'm thinking they were just too old and strong on their wing.


I thought that was the problem, and I thought the soapy water would help with that, maybe I just let them dry off too long before I closed the aviary door.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Chromie said:


> I thought that was the problem, and I thought the soapy water would help with that, maybe I just let them dry off too long before I closed the aviary door.


I've never done it but what I've been told is to slick their tips with liquid soap not just soapy water and it'll stay on for a few days or a week b4 it washes off. And by then they'll be used to walking around the outside of the loft. What I do is let my young birds out with a bunch of fancies the first few times. They see the fancy birds walking around and clapping around nice and calm and it keeps the young birds calm. Then once I feel like they are good and stuck I move the fancies to another section and let the young birds out by themselves.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> I've never done it but what I've been told is to slick their tips with liquid soap not just soapy water and it'll stay on for a few days or a week b4 it washes off. And by then they'll be used to walking around the outside of the loft. What I do is let my young birds out with a bunch of fancies the first few times. They see the fancy birds walking around and clapping around nice and calm and it keeps the young birds calm. Then once I feel like they are good and stuck I move the fancies to another section and let the young birds out by themselves.


that sounds like a good idea, only problem for me is I am so new to racing pigeons all I have is prisoners/breeders and 4 young birds, no fancies...

have you ever tried the rubber band on the flight feathers trick?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Chromie said:


> that sounds like a good idea, only problem for me is I am so new to racing pigeons all I have is prisoners/breeders and 4 young birds, no fancies...
> 
> have you ever tried the rubber band on the flight feathers trick?


The only thing I've ever done was clip the last 2 tips the plucked them a few weeks later on a few auction birds I bought one year because I was young and I saw one of the top guys doing it that time so I copied. But I haven't done it since.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I called the people I got the birds today to ask if they homed there, or to keep a look out for them, they said they would and gave me 3 more to replace the lost birds. I thought that was awesome of them. I could tell these birds are a good bit younger than the others. I think I'll wait a week or two before I try any more loft flying just to be sure..I'll post a few pics tomorrow of the new 3


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## Caden's Aviary (Jul 14, 2010)

Chromie- I had the same problem and made a similar post last week. It is under Lost Birds on First Loft Fly and is full of info. Somone posted this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPReyZgHzWY. It worked wonders for me. Soaping does work, you just got to get them nice and covered. I followed the instructions in the video, gave them about 20 strokes in the water and put them on the roof of my loft. I did this at about 4 pm (after it had cooled off a bit here, but still sunny out). They just sat there drying off for about two hours and then jumped down into the loft to eat. I have been working them and don't have them completely under control yet, but I am confident that they know their surroundings. I have found that letting mine out closer to dark makes them want to come in quicker. Just depends on when you want to feed them though I guess.

Hope it all works out! 
Brian


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Actually this happened to me too....i have lost about 6 birds,in my effort to train them as homers.BUT THE THIRD TIME ,I WAS SUCCESSFUL,i bought 6 adult pigeons from 6 different places and put them together.Then i released them after 2 weeks,now all are my best friends........They comes back on call ..i think,since all have came from 6 different places ,they dint want to go back from here,as they got paired with new friends and so decided to stay in my place !!! 
Try this !!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Chromie said:


> I called the people I got the birds today to ask if they homed there, or to keep a look out for them, they said they would and gave me 3 more to replace the lost birds. I thought that was awesome of them. I could tell these birds are a good bit younger than the others. I think I'll wait a week or two before I try any more loft flying just to be sure..I'll post a few pics tomorrow of the new 3


Why do you not ask what age the birds are? that is very important.. anytime they are over 40 days old you run a risk..some can even take off when younger, but that would be a good bird.. so ask how old the birds are, then you can have a plan for trap training them to be let out at 7 or 8 weeks old to imprint on the place. Why risk losing more birds, who knows what happens to them.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> Why do you not ask what age the birds are? that is very important.. anytime they are over 40 days old you run a risk..some can even take off when younger, but that would be a good bird.. so ask how old the birds are, then you can have a plan for trap training them to be let out at 7 or 8 weeks old to imprint on the place. Why risk losing more birds, who knows what happens to them.


well, I did ask, and they didn't know for sure, they were all OOPS babies. These three still have a touch of pin feathers under the wings, but still they didn't know exactly how old they were. How am I to know the age? I am new to pigeons, but would like any info on aging these youngsters, and at what stage to start the trap training, or any other links to the RIGHT way to do things. I posted in another thread about a good book for this info but got no response.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I lost a few birds too and they were all "wing strong" which is another way of saying older than they should have been. 

A couple of observations I have been able to make from my successes/failures to date:
1. Get the birds as close to weaning as possible. 
2. The older your birds are the longer you will need a settling cage.
3. The older your birds are the larger your settling cage will need to be. 
4. If you have very young birds with your old birds, soap or prevent your old birds from flying until AFTER your very young birds are are routing. This lets the young birds lead and gives the older birds something to follow that nows where home is. Do it the other way around if you want to wave good bye to all your young birds. 

As to telling the age of your birds…*I get a little leery of someone who can't tell me the exact age of a bird they are giving me. A few of the "natural" method folks here have lots of young birds, but they can always pin it down to within a week. Other than "it hatched on" all aging methods are a guess. The "wet under the wing" method seems to me to be the easiest to use. If the bird has all the body feathers under the wing fully developed (the bird looks dry and not wet) then you probably should consider it a prisoner. The drier the bird looks the longer you have to settle it. 

Not really the answer you are looking for, but the best answer I have heard to the question so far.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Craig, Go get your birds..just because they flew back where they were born is no excuse to leave them there. That just shows they have what it takes to make it home. In my humble opinion..you gotta crawl before ya walk. You may have to keep them as prisoner/breeders..but you know the squabs they will produce will have what it takes. I wouldn't give up on them just because they flew back to their home loft.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Craig, Go get your birds..just because they flew back where they were born is no excuse to leave them there. That just shows they have what it takes to make it home. In my humble opinion..you gotta crawl before ya walk. You may have to keep them as prisoner/breeders..but you know the squabs they will produce will have what it takes. I wouldn't give up on them just because they flew back to their home loft.


they never made it there, and I haven't seen them either.


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## Keith C. (Jan 25, 2005)

Here is how I train homing pigeons for free flight. 
It is posted on my website at:
http://kjcii.webs.com/trainingtips.htm

For the first week you have the young homers every time you feed them make a consistent noise. You can whistle, shake a can of feed or say anything you want as long as it stays the same. They will associate the sound with being fed and this will be your feed call. 

The second week place a cage on the outside on your landing board, so that the pigeons can only enter the loft, not fly away. Put the pigeons in the cage wait a couple of minutes for them to settle down and then do the feed call and feed them. They will try to get in to get the feed and thus learn how to trap into the loft. Do this every day.

The third week, if all is going well, skip their feed for a day, but give them water and an hour before dark put them on the board. Slowly remove the cage, so that you do not startle them, enter the loft, do the feed call and feed them. They should immediately enter. If they do not they should still try to get back in to sleep in the loft.

Do this every other day, but give them half of what they will eat in the morning and the rest when they enter during the training in the evening.

The fourth week if all is going well, skip there feed and in the evening put them on the board remove the cage and stand back and watch them for half an hour before calling them in. They may enter right away at first, but eventually they will start circling around and landing on higher perches.

Always make sure they are slightly hungry when you fly them and that they have food waiting for them in the loft.

Once they start routing, flying in big circles out of sight, put them in the cage you will release them from and let them go in several different places in your yard. This acclimates them to being in the cage.

If this is going well start releasing them at about 1 mile away from all different directions.

Slowly increase the distance you release them at until you have them trained out the distance you want them to fly.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Keith C. said:


> The second week place a cage on the outside on your landing board, so that the pigeons can only enter the loft, not fly away. Put the pigeons in the cage wait a couple of minutes for them to settle down and then do the feed call and feed them. They will try to get in to get the feed and thus learn how to trap into the loft. Do this every day.
> 
> The third week, if all is going well, skip their feed for a day, but give them water and an hour before dark put them on the board. Slowly remove the cage, so that you do not startle them, enter the loft, do the feed call and feed them. They should immediately enter. If they do not they should still try to get back in to sleep in the loft.
> 
> ...


What would be the best way to make this work for me? 
My aviary is modeled like the Rosewood starter loft, with the trap inside the aviary. 
I just keep the trap open so the birds can get out in the sun.
this is the best pic.I have of the aviary, those are the YB that flew off, while they were still wet.


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## Keith C. (Jan 25, 2005)

I like the design of the Rosewood starter lofts because it is extremely easy for the pigeons to find their way back in. 
You can still use my method. Just leave the outer panel closed when you are first training them.
The trick is that they should always be slightly hungry when they are given the chance to leave; that gives you control over them. They need to know that when you call and they enter the loft they will be fed.
Pigeons are very food greedy.
Flying them late in the day helps because, they will want to return to the loft soon for the night, making them less prone to wander.
Another advantage of letting them out late is that most hawks will already have eaten and won't bother your birds.


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