# Canker signs?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sorry that I ask so many questions here. Despite now being in a charity, I still find it hard to obtain information.

I have little experience of canker, for some reason I do not see a lot of it about in the London area. It may just be that the local area I am in does not have much of a canker problem. Anyway, I had a pigeon earlier today that I was checking the wound from a deep string injury that I had removed yesterday. I was giving Enroflox antibiotic and I saw down the throat a big yellow blob. I looked at a few pictures on the internet and I convinced myself that it was canker. The area around the beak also seems a little stiicky, and along the split in the top of the beak inside the mouth were several dirty looking marks just like the canker pictures I had seen. 

Anyway, I gave the Enroflox and I also gave a new canker antibiotic that I am trying out. I looked in the mouth and the yellow dot had disappeared? I noticed that the dot looked just like the round end of a yellow split pea? Is it possible that I had mistaken a yellow split pea, round side up, for canker? Would a canker sore stay in place or do they move? The beak was still sticky and there were dirty marks in the mouth like canker marks? on the balance of probabilities is it likely that this was canker or is it possible for a yellow split pea to get stuck in the throat until giving the pigeon a tablet forces it down the throat?

Thank you,
Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I guess this was a hard one to answer lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Could have been either a split pea or canker. Had you fed yellow split peas? Canker nodules can dislodge. The beak sounding like sticky or mucousy sounds like canker. Does he have a smell about him? THe stress of the string injury could bring about canker. What did you give for canker?
How do the droppings look?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

There was a bit of an odor on the breath of the pigeon, but I had rescued her from a very dirty area and she was out of shape in a number of respects. I daren't think what their diet consists of in that area. After the very bad mistake with the baby pigeon I decided to invest in a good canker treatment, she has had 2 doses 1 day apart. The product is Ronsec and it has Ronidazole 25mg and Secnidazole 25mg (sustained release).
I have not had a look at the droppings yet as I have tided to put the bath out. How should they look if its canker?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm not sure about how well the Ronsec works, as it says to give it once, then skip a day, then give again. I have some, but often 2 or 3 days doesn't cure canker. I have normally had great luck with Metronidazole, and you can get it in a coated tablet as Meditrich. I think maybe it would be good for when you need to combine.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I think different parts of the world have different strains of canker, metronidazole only works slowly round here, but these new tablets worked on first dose the second dose was not really needed. The marks in the mouth have disappeared and the stickiness has gone. I am not completely sure that it was canker, but as the symptoms have disappeared I think it probably was.

The meditrich is 100mg of metronidazole per tablet, isn't that a bit on the high side?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

An adult pigeon would normally get 50 mg daily for 7 days. Giving one whole tablet for the first dose is good, then I cut it in half for the rest of the treatment in a pill splitter. Some use it just as a preventative, like racers and give the one pill once a month during the racing season. It's coated, so is supposed to upset the stomach less.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by BHenderson
> but these new tablets worked on first dose the second dose was not really needed. The marks in the mouth have disappeared and the stickiness has gone.


Hey Brian, I'm afraid, this u just did wrong. U're actually helping triches to build resistance to the drug. And only 10% of the canker is visible and rest of 90% is inside. Triches are protozoa, so antibiotic won't treat them. If metronidazole aint working efficiently then u can use the other one, you're using, with it. Give it for 5-7 days. Rhonidazole is good for prevention but metronidazole works well for individual treatment.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

BHenderson said:


> I think different parts of the world have different strains of canker, metronidazole only works slowly round here, but these new tablets worked on first dose the second dose was not really needed. The marks in the mouth have disappeared and the stickiness has gone. I am not completely sure that it was canker, but as the symptoms have disappeared I think it probably was.
> 
> The meditrich is 100mg of metronidazole per tablet, isn't that a bit on the high side?


Just because you can't see the canker or stickiness, doesn't mean the infection is gone and so you need to continue the treatment.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

The suggested treatment for Ronsec is 1 dose then wait a day then a second dose, this I did. Anything that looked like it might have been symptoms of canker(remember I was never sure it was canker in the first place) has now gone. The pigeon is now going on to eat well and her leg is healing with the continuing dose of Enroflox which I will give for 10 days as one of the toes came away after I removed the nylon thread that caused the injury that first brought her to my attention.

I should maybe have pointed out that as the Ronsec tablets are sustained release, the treatment is designed for resistant canker and only requires 2 doses. It seems to have done the job. Although I said the second does was not really needed, I still gave the dose even if this was not clear. I know antibiotic doses must be completed to stop resistance building up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I did read it that way.................that you did do the second dose, even if you felt that it wasn't needed. And I realize you weren't even sure if it was indeed canker. I think it may have been. Let us know how it goes with that. I'm just not sure about the 2 or 3 day treatments, as with the canker I normally deal with takes longer regardless of the drug. I have the Ronsec, but haven't used it yet, as I fall back on the Metro that works well for me. I will probably add the Ronsec if I run into a stubborn case that isn't being handled by the Metro. That's what I bought it for. According to the meds instructions you have given it as it directs you to. Please just keep an eye on him, just to make sure. Let us know if it seems to come back as that would be good to know.
Spartrix tells you to give one pill one time, and that is supposed to cure, but we all know that it doesn't. Hopefully this drug is better. I'm glad he is doing better.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Jay3
> Spartrix tells you to give one pill one time, and that is supposed to cure, but we all know that it doesn't.


Wow, I was about to post the exact same thing.
,since u said u weren't sure its canker I didn't. 
Hmmm...
Brian....If it wasn't canker why the symptoms disappeared...?

I'm happy that u've done good job n the bird is recovering


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> An adult pigeon would normally get 50 mg daily for 7 days. Giving one whole tablet for the first dose is good, then I cut it in half for the rest of the treatment in a pill splitter. Some use it just as a preventative, like racers and give the one pill once a month during the racing season. It's coated, so is supposed to upset the stomach less.


50mg / day. so how many times do you divide the 50mg per day? (one 50mg tablet or divide it into 16mg x 3) ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

hong kong pigeons said:


> 50mg / day. so how many times do you divide the 50mg per day? (one 50mg tablet or divide it into 16mg x 3) ?



Metronidazole doesn't come in 50 mg tablets. If it is 250 mg tablet, then cutting it in quarters is close enough. They do sell 60 mg tablets, and that is fine too. 60 mg is okay. The whole dose is given once daily, after feeding. It can sometimes make a bird vomit, so give him some food first, rather than on an empty stomach. Also a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul 30 minutes before often helps. They don't always vomit from it, but if they do, then try the Pepto.


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## hong kong pigeons (Sep 30, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Metronidazole doesn't come in 50 mg tablets. If it is 250 mg tablet, then cutting it in quarters is close enough. They do sell 60 mg tablets, and that is fine too. 60 mg is okay. The whole dose is given once daily, after feeding. It can sometimes make a bird vomit, so give him some food first, rather than on an empty stomach. Also a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul 30 minutes before often helps. They don't always vomit from it, but if they do, then try the Pepto.


i read some articles that the full dose should be divided into 3 - 5 times a day. of course, full dose in a single time daily is more convenient, but i dont know if it will cause unwanted effects.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you are mistaken. I have never heard of any article suggesting 3 to 5 times daily. Anyway, the dose is once daily.


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