# Is this the norm at Auctions?!



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

I have never been to a small animal/exotic animal auction before, and have heard mixed things about them. I've been to shows and almost thought they would be like that, well organized, nicely set up, and the animals all provided for. 

A friend of mine goes to one of the very few auctions in Alberta that sells pigeons, every year, to take pictures. This is the first year that I've seen the pictures. The auction is happening again next weekend. It's an annual thing. Throughout the day they have more exotic animals come in, such as reptiles and parrots. 

They have A LOT of pigeons, and although I have heard that most pigeon fanciers love their birds, none of these vendors seem to! I am preparing myself for heartbreak next weekend. I was really dissapointed to see that the only place I know of that sells pigeons, doesn't seem to have the animals welfare in mind AT ALL. 

These are pictures from last years auction in Olds...


----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)




----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)




----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

This is what my friend said about the pictures...


> These pictures were taken last year at an exotic animal auction. Over 700 boxes of animals were purchased and treated as if they were pieces of clothing. Most animals were not supplied with water or food and some stayed in those tiny cages for up to 5 days. We caused a disturbance which forced the auction to a halt and demanded that each animal was given water. We walked with the staff from box to box to assure that they had water. Many animals including the rabbits were crammed by the dozens in small tubberwear containers with a couple if tiny holes. We cut open many boxes and let rabbits out as they were near death. Other boxes were stacked so high that when people walked near them they would fall. We took pictures of chickens with huge holes in their backs caused form other birds attacking them. This is a byproduct of forcing so many animals in such a small container.
> 
> We ended up coming home with over 50 pigeons, 15 chickens, some ducks, all the budgies, lovebirds and cockatiels and a rabbit. All of these animals have since been set free at 2 separate Sanctuaries. The birds are no longer in small cages, rather they can live free flight amongst numerous other birds. The pigeons have access to a heated barn where they can fly to and from. The bunny has been fixed and lives with another 10 or so free roaming rabbits.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

That is sad and disgusting. SOME of the cages look ok, but there are way to many in those pictures that are WAY to small and WAY to dirty. Fact of the matter is, as long as the animals can be kept like this and people show up to buy them, they'll keep doing it.  
When the patrons say "clean up your act, or we won't be back", then there will be change, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The pictures just make me what to cry.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am just overwhelmed with sadness, grief, for those poor birds and animals in all those pictures.

It is true, if there is no demand it will stop. God gave us these creatures to treat with kindness, not with cruelty, and this is the pits.


----------



## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

About 4-5 years ago I went to an animal auction.

I saw the exact same horrors as the photos you posted. Many of the animals I saw were in even smaller containers and not as clean. It was then the people selling the animals job to care for the animal, not the auction house. Of course many of the people didn't care for the animals.

Many of the rabbits at that one were sold as food... There were also animals being auctioned that were too young to be away from their mothers.

There wasn't such a variety of animals to the one I went to, but I hear that has increased since.

Yep, I haven't gone to another since.
-Hilly


----------



## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

My boys and I have been going to these type of auctions since they were ols enough to walk,, they are now 6 and 8 yrs old.. We have these auctions twice a year not too far away.. 
Some of your pics are not respective of what you are portraying,, even tho they do seem to be a bit crowded.
The pics that are stacked up on top of each other are "after" the auction,, and thats how they put the respective buyers birds together,,, all in a bunch,, but it's only for a few hours at most,, sometimes,, just minutes,,
And you mentioned,, they look like pieces of meat,,,well,, what can I say,,, 
You can put on you own exotic auction ,, but,, I doubt any one would bring there birds,,, first and foremost,,, they are wanting them sold,, or cullled,,, thats what this auction represents... 
The culls are really cheap,, thats where I have bought my boys beginner birds for them,,, Its a nice place to buy birds and not pay high dollar prices..
That being said,,,
These auctions are the norm,,, and within federal guidelines,
I don't have to like it,, and niether do you,,, but,, the folks who put these auctions together are doing the best they can with the volunteers who are willing to help.
Just as many trucks are sent on there way back home can also happen at any time if the animals are not caged according to guidelines... 
Its not a perfect situation,,, but there are a lot of breeders that need an avenue to distribute either excess birds and or culls,, if you have a better plan,, I'm listening...
Gary H.


----------



## SkyofAngels (Jun 28, 2007)

Charis said:


> The pictures just make me what to cry.


Ditto, I am speechless


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I have never been to an animal auction but how are these animals presented to the prospective buyer, I hope its not in the same boxes i see in the pictures


----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

Gary, according to the people I know that go regularly, this wasn't the end of the auction. There were boxes piled throughout the building all day, pushed to the side, thrown around while digging through the piles to find the "merchandise" they wanted...They have a schedule, the pigeons and fowl are for a few hours in the morning, they throw the boxes out of the trucks, pile them up, and then throw them back in. At the end of the auction you can always find boxes and dead animals in the ditches leading away from the auction. A local sanctuary has over 20 rabbits collected from ditches after these auctions. 

Maybe I don't have a better plan, but I am of the belief that if you can't treat ALL of your animals with kindness, then you shouldn't have them at all. Even your "culls". I don't think any of these people should be breeding and selling animals...then they wouldn't have to cull animals, and the auction wouldn't exist. They should get into plants and pet rocks, and other things without nerve endings and the ability to suffer.


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Insomniac said:


> .
> 
> Maybe I don't have a better plan, but I am of the belief that if you can't treat ALL of your animals with kindness, then you shouldn't have them at all. Even your "culls". I don't think any of these people should be breeding and selling animals...then they wouldn't have to cull animals, and the auction wouldn't exist. They should get into plants and pet rocks, and other things without nerve endings and the ability to suffer.



*I'm with you Insomniac 100%*


----------



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

That was sickening to look at. 

Couldn't you report them to an animal rights organization? That just doesn't seem right.


----------



## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

the poor babies  

I feel sad when I see birds in a cage, as they can't fly around, but to see them in such small cells, it's like they are prisoners 

look at the chickens, they have no room to move!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Things are actually much worse at some auctions I have seen. This one actually appears "good" compared to the pitiful auctions which are held at farm auctions held in Lancaster County, Pa. 

It has been years since I last watched one, because it made me want to vomit. Animals of every description were being sold there, every thing from cows and horses, dogs and cats, (most end up in medical labs) to pigeons and chickens.

One local fancier purchased a number of pigeons there in order to "save" them....only to introduce Paratyphoid into his loft, and as a result "bucket fulls" of his birds died.  

My suggestion is to avoid them, and do not support these things. I know it is a " Catch 22 " type of thing.....because on the one hand, you would like to "Save" these animals...but on the other hand, when you purchase them, people go looking to get more. In the case of pigeons, people will catch ferals in order to sell them etc. In the case of other types of birds....people who have no real business breeding them...use this as a dumping ground or maybe this is only where they can sell them.

It's the same old story of people getting animals and then allowing them to breed. They somehow have this notion that they can then sell the puppies, or bunnies, or whatever. They have no idea what they are doing, and end up with sick animals, and use such a "market" to sell them.

It's places like some of these garbage pits, that I am sometimes ashamed to say that I am part of the human race.


----------



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Insomniac said:


> Maybe I don't have a better plan, but I am of the belief that if you can't treat ALL of your animals with kindness, then you shouldn't have them at all. Even your "culls". I don't think any of these people should be breeding and selling animals...then they wouldn't have to cull animals, and the auction wouldn't exist. They should get into plants and pet rocks, and other things without nerve endings and the ability to suffer.


Wow. You go. Well said and 100% agree.

I despise that fact that (some) people are so easily capable of such enormous cruelty. "...put them in buckets of sand and shoot them"...it breaks my heart to know that...


----------



## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

I went to a auction, all the animals were kept in good conditions with big metal cages, they all had fresh food and water and there was only one animal per cage, they all seemed reasonably healthy some seemed quite old though. 

I don't know if the animals were the culls or not but they were all selling really cheap, there were some stalls outside selling food for the animals quite cheap as well.

It is awful that anyone would keep their pets in conditions in those photos. I agree they shouldn't be alowed them, thye shouldn't be able to get away with it. Was that auction a legal, organised one?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think the auction the thread was started about was in Canada last year.


----------



## FuzzyWings (Sep 23, 2007)

That lovebird with the red face is beautiful, for sure a hybrid.

Most auctions look like that but later on usually the birds are released into there new larger homes, of course sadly that does not always go for everybird as many will be used for food, only the fancy pigeons like hommers/rollers/fantails ect.. will be kept as good pets but other times they could be breed for meat. Not everyone can afford large cages when selling there birds, I do wish they would at least make the boxes larger but that's defenetly not always going to happen, the larger the boxes are and cleaner the better the birds are looked after. My local auction seems to care more about the condition of the birds are in, but sometimes I do see a couple of injured or sick birds but I can't even look at them I feel so sorry. There also very agressive when grabing the rabbits and chickens, they'll pull ears, wings, legs ect.. because they have no love for them only the thought of hunger. Humans can be so crewl. 

I'm just happy my auction would rather use birds for good blood line's, shows or pets.. but there is a section of culls.


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Royaltypigeon said:


> My boys and I have been going to these type of auctions since they were ols enough to walk,, they are now 6 and 8 yrs old.. We have these auctions twice a year not too far away..
> Some of your pics are not respective of what you are portraying,, even tho they do seem to be a bit crowded.
> The pics that are stacked up on top of each other are "after" the auction,, and thats how they put the respective buyers birds together,,, all in a bunch,, but it's only for a few hours at most,, sometimes,, just minutes,,
> And you mentioned,, they look like pieces of meat,,,well,, what can I say,,,
> ...


Glad to see we have the devil's advocate to count on yet again here with a "reality check".
*
I don't have to like it,, and niether do you,,, but,, the folks who put these auctions together are doing the best they can with the volunteers who are willing to help.*

I doubt that very much.



Insomniac said:


> Gary, according to the people I know that go regularly, this wasn't the end of the auction. There were boxes piled throughout the building all day, pushed to the side, thrown around while digging through the piles to find the "merchandise" they wanted...They have a schedule, the pigeons and fowl are for a few hours in the morning, they throw the boxes out of the trucks, pile them up, and then throw them back in. At the end of the auction you can always find boxes and dead animals in the ditches leading away from the auction. A local sanctuary has over 20 rabbits collected from ditches after these auctions.
> 
> Maybe I don't have a better plan, but I am of the belief that if you can't treat ALL of your animals with kindness, then you shouldn't have them at all. Even your "culls". I don't think any of these people should be breeding and selling animals...then they wouldn't have to cull animals, and the auction wouldn't exist. They should get into plants and pet rocks, and other things without nerve endings and the ability to suffer.



Thank you for your well-stated posting Insomniac. These pictures and this situation disgust me and sadden me as much as everyone else (excuse me, mostly everyone else). All other things said and done, *there is no excuse for this appalling practice, regardless of how much it goes on all over. NONE! *


----------



## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

Charis- I was just stating that not all auctions turn out that way.


----------



## fallenweeble (Sep 2, 2007)

it's hard to see - i know. i went to one bird "show" once and ended up adopting my baby weeble from that event but i almost didn't make it through the day. some of the people showing birds were obviously caring - they had big cages and nice clean stands and such and were affectionate and friendly with their critters. many others were displaying birds in tiny dirty cages crammed full of birds. it wasn't an "auction" like the one you went to but it was a public event set up, largely, in order to sell birds. (i went to buy toys in bulk - and wouldn't THAT be great - a show where only SUPPLIES are available for purchase? I'd buy up the whole inventory at that type of event!!!!)
i understand why you were disturbed by what you saw. there seem to be two types of folks in the animal world. those who feel that animals are "companions" and those who see animals as "posessions" and the differences between these two approaches are pretty huge. usually the only change that happens in the world is the change that we, ourselves, take charge of. maybe you can look into what would be involved in trying to change the standards regarding these types of events in your area.
at any rate, i totally understand your response and bless you for caring!
- weeble


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

maryjane said:


> Glad to see we have the devil's advocate to count on yet again here with a "reality check".
> *
> I don't have to like it,, and niether do you,,, but,, the folks who put these auctions together are doing the best they can with the volunteers who are willing to help.*
> 
> I doubt that very much.


Maryjane, I'd love to hug your neck girl.........I figured if I said anything, I'd once again cause a big stink with this guy. So, just thought I'd sit back and see how long it took someone to read and be DISGUSTED by what he said.........so THANK YOU............Guess I'm not the only "crazy" person around here..........


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Becca199212 said:


> Charis- I was just stating that not all auctions turn out that way.


Thank you Becca.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Maryjane, I'd love to hug your neck girl.........I figured if I said anything, I'd once again cause a big stink with this guy. So, just thought I'd sit back and see how long it took someone to read and be DISGUSTED by what he said.........so THANK YOU............Guess I'm not the only "crazy" person around here..........


DITTO. CALL ME CRAZY TOO.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Charis said:


> DITTO. CALL ME CRAZY TOO.


Ok. Join the CRAZY crowd........


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*May I join too? *


----------



## fallenweeble (Sep 2, 2007)

and i forgot to say, yup, thanks maryjane for being articulate AND outspoken. you do a great job saying what many of us think but maybe don't know how to clearly and calmly express. 
you rock.
-weeble


----------



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> ............Guess I'm not the only "crazy" person around here..........


No - you are NOT alone...!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Wow! We are going to have quite the club.


----------



## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

Lovebirds said:


> Maryjane, I'd love to hug your neck girl.........I figured if I said anything, I'd once again cause a big stink with this guy. So, just thought I'd sit back and see how long it took someone to read and be DISGUSTED by what he said.........so THANK YOU............Guess I'm not the only "crazy" person around here..........


 Call me stupid,, 
But I don't see anything that I stated as "disgusting",, I was just sharing my experience with the same type auctions and how they are handled in our part of the country.. Obviously we take better care of our auctions than the ones in the original post.
I think a moderator should look into this thread and decide,, who is taking something out of context,, and slinging dirt,, I sure wasn't and have no intentions of doing so..
Have a great evening..
Gary H.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Totally horrible...


The least they could do is make sure food and fresh Water are given once a day for the duration...but I guess that would cost too much to have the hired help bother with.

This was really painful to look at...

If it was up to me, I'd put the auction people into just such conditions for 'five days', then, ask them if they had enything worth mentioning for an experience.




Phil
l v


----------



## SkyofAngels (Jun 28, 2007)

I feel like I need to speak out now I have kept quiet for awhile but I am concerned about the amount of disagreements that I have seen, and I keep seeing certain names associated with them. I know that the moderators are trying very hard to keep this down while respecting that everyone has their own opinion but isn't there something that can be done when one person continuously and purposefully is causing arguments? When you review someones posts and they are filled with spite then maybe this isn't the place for them. Maybe this isn't my place to say but I am getting pretty tired of hearing certain people on here and them advocating things that is TOTALLY against what this forum stands for. I know that banning isn't something that anyone wants to do but isn't at least a warning in order? Kind of a 'be nice or leave' kinda thing? This forum is filled with wonderful people and such useful information I would hate to see it end because of some people being jerks. I think everyone has the right to express their honest opinion but some people need to learn that there is a difference between honesty and being an a*sh*le!!!!!


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

SkyofAngels said:


> I feel like I need to speak out now I have kept quiet for awhile but I am concerned about the amount of disagreements that I have seen, and I keep seeing certain names associated with them. I know that the moderators are trying very hard to keep this down while respecting that everyone has their own opinion but isn't there something that can be done when one person continuously and purposefully is causing arguments? When you review someones posts and they are filled with spite then maybe this isn't the place for them. Maybe this isn't my place to say but I am getting pretty tired of hearing certain people on here and them advocating things that is TOTALLY against what this forum stands for. I know that banning isn't something that anyone wants to do but isn't at least a warning in order? Kind of a 'be nice or leave' kinda thing? This forum is filled with wonderful people and such useful information I would hate to see it end because of some people being jerks. I think everyone has the right to express their honest opinion but some people need to learn that there is a difference between honesty and being an a*sh*le!!!!!




Hi Skyofangels, 




For example?


Certainly, images and tales of cruelty are liable to find empassioned responses.

Most of us here are into helping Birds who are in distress or compromise.

It goes against our grain to see and hear of injury, stress, stravation, dehydraiton being done to them intentionally, because some groups of people trying to make a scammy buck are too cheap to feed and water them for a few days.

So, seeing and hearing of situations where Birds and others are being treated very badly, merely to save twenty bucks or whatever it may have cost to feed and water them for a few days, has me at any rate feel, that I would like to see those doing it, find out for themselves what it is like.

Is the 'Golden Rule' not a viable index for morality?


What responses are you objecting to?

Inquiring minds want to know..!


Best wishes,
Phil
l v


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, I'm quite disgusted by the pictures.   Each of those animals is a living sentient being and deserves better treatment than that by a long shot. I understand the need for relatively small cages, but there is no excuse for cramming animals in so tightly that they must relieve themselves on top of each other, or spend days in feces-encrusted cages. I saw no food or water in some boxes, food dishes knocked askew in others and birds trapped in cages that didn't begin to allow them even the room to stand up straight. 
Hasn't anybody heard of birth control? I hope these sellers come back reincarnated as one of those animals in an auction.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

This is a very sad situation for sure .. far, far, far from the worst that I have ever seen .. but sad nonetheless. I think what all of us need to keep in mind is that if you are the one witnessing something like this that distresses you, then you are THE one that needs to try and do something about it. It is so very, very hard to try and deal with things like this from afar. If you are the person right there, then you ARE the person to try and do something about it. Yep, we'll help from here if we can, but all such situations need a point person, and that has to be the one right there. JMO

If this thread "distresses" too many more people, I will just close it .. we aren't making any headway on actually helping the birds or animals and are just upsetting one another. AGAIN .. the message is .. if you can do something to help the situation, then do so .. 

Terry


----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

I'll definitely make a fuss on the weekend and make sure that everybody has food and water, and I'll make sure that I'm around at the end of the auction to save any animals thrown into the ditch or abandoned at the auction site. I'll also have the humane society on speed dial. It's too bad our animal cruelty laws haven't been updated since the 1800's, though...


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

That's good to know that you'll be there. Hopefully conditions will have improved over last year's auction. Perhaps you can start working the political angle as well and start getting some legislators interested in updating the laws. I doubt that many people (in the law-making business) even know that proper legal protections do not exist for these animals. A good idea will grow.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Insomniac said:


> I'll definitely make a fuss on the weekend and make sure that everybody has food and water, and I'll make sure that I'm around at the end of the auction to save any animals thrown into the ditch or abandoned at the auction site. I'll also have the humane society on speed dial. It's too bad our animal cruelty laws haven't been updated since the 1800's, though...


Good for you, Insomniac! Best of luck with this and let us know if we can help. Thank you for taking action.

Terry


----------



## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> That's good to know that you'll be there. Hopefully conditions will have improved over last year's auction. Perhaps you can start working the political angle as well and start getting some legislators interested in updating the laws. I doubt that many people (in the law-making business) even know that proper legal protections do not exist for these animals. A good idea will grow.


The one I'm going to is larger then this one, and sells more exotic animals such as tigers and lions. Attended by all of the roadside zoos.  I am in for a depressing day. I think we're going to have a few people go and possibly get a room at amotel for the day so that we can do shifts, during each section of the auction. They do different species at different times of the day.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, if one does know of any such auctions in one's own area, and one goes and sees it is like this...

One could possibly 'volenteer' and work something out with the promoters maybe, for one to provide food and water for the Animals, maybe, since it would not cost the promoters anything that way.

At least that would be something anyway...


Phil
l v


----------



## SkyofAngels (Jun 28, 2007)

Phil,
I don't want to start anything maybe I shouldn't have said anything Just to answer your question though, it wasn't you I was objecting you or anyone that was upset by the pictures. I too was very upset by those pictures and the condition that those poor animals were kept in. Unfortunately birth control isn't something people tend to think of until _after_. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people put a male animal and a female in the same cage and then be so surprised when they get babies, like DUH! Unfortunately this doesn't stop at animals as if that wouldn't be bad enough. If people thought about birth control then every human child would have a home and there wouldn't be things like abortion (I'll stop there I don't want to start another debate) just saying that if people can't think of birth control for themselves then of course they won't for there animals. 
Maybe each of us could send in a letter to our local political leaders, with pictures like these and if anyone else has some pictures showing the conditions at these auctions or maybe pictures of the ditches (hard I know but it will cause a reaction) and that is what is necessary. The problem is that not alot of people are aware I wasn't. There are caring people out there but unless they know what is going on they can't do anything about it. To STOP these auctions might be impossible but we CAN improve them, the only way they will is if they are forced, so lets start pushing.


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Insomniac said:


> I'll definitely make a fuss on the weekend and make sure that everybody has food and water, and I'll make sure that I'm around at the end of the auction to save any animals thrown into the ditch or abandoned at the auction site...


Good list, Insomniac! Anyone else have suggestions for positive activities like this?


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Right To Ones Opinion*

Well I have kept out of this tread but I feel like I must speak up.First I do not condone miss treatment of animals and I am realistic it does happen, what bothers me here is that this is an animal auction in Canada, while i am sure that there are many auctions that are poorly run.I feel that there are many that are very well run. I have have never attened a animal auction but I have attend PIGEONS AUCTIONS, all of the pigeon auctions that I have attend were run in very good environments. The birds were 1 per cage water was supplied.When a bird was sold the buyer paid for his bird and removed the bird to his carring crate,the type that we racing use to train our birds.We here are pigeon oriented and that should be our first concern, however we must not over look mis treatment of animals.There is one other thing that bothers me and that is people getting upset at someone's opinion remember we all have the right to our opinion we still live in a free country.I have been a member of PIGEON TALK for a year and a half,I feel that lately there has been more and more non pigeon related topics. I tend to over look them as I am mainly here for pigeon related topics.If I have offened any one sorry but thats the way I feel. .GEORGE


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

george simon said:


> Well I have kept out of this tread but I feel like I must speak up.First I do not condone miss treatment of animals and I am realistic it does happen, what bothers me here is that this is an animal auction in Canada, while i am sure that there are many auctions that are poorly run.I feel that there are many that are very well run. I have have never attened a animal auction but I have attend PIGEONS AUCTIONS, all of the pigeon auctions that I have attend were run in very good environments. The birds were 1 per cage water was supplied.When a bird was sold the buyer paid for his bird and removed the bird to his carring crate,the type that we racing use to train our birds.We here are pigeon oriented and that should be our first concern, however we must not over look mis treatment of animals.There is one other thing that bothers me and that is people getting upset at someone's opinion remember we all have the right to our opinion we still live in a free country.I have been a member of PIGEON TALK for a year and a half,I feel that lately there has been more and more non pigeon related topics. I tend to over look them as I am mainly here for pigeon related topics.If I have offened any one sorry but thats the way I feel. .GEORGE



Well said, George.


----------

