# Facility Manager



## Guest (Mar 18, 2009)

I manage a small hospital in Northern Calif.
We have about 20 pigeons roosting and nesting around our A/C units. Netting is not a possibility, nor is Hot Foot. I've done pigeon control before, (20 years ago) and we used Avatrol. Trapping is an option, but time is of the essence. Should I poison them?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

psimi said:


> I manage a small hospital in Northern Calif.
> We have about 20 pigeons roosting and nesting around our A/C units. Netting is not a possibility, nor is Hot Foot. I've done pigeon control before, (20 years ago) and we used Avatrol. Trapping is an option, but time is of the essence. *Should I poison them?*


NO, absolutely not. This is a "pigeon friendly" website.

If by pigeon CONTROL you mean poison or any other inhumane way to rid of them, you are in the wrong place.

If you don't want them nesting and roosting around your AC units, close off all access. There are all kinds of ways to do this, AND please remove the babies first.

Avatrol is not the answer, it is not only inhuman and dangerous to all bird life. but it doesn't work, the birds will be back before you know it because you provide roosting and nesting areas, and there must be a food source nearby.

You can also try to relocate the birds and their babies, try finding a local rehabber.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

avitrol is horrible, and sh*t rolls down hill, you risk poisoning anything that will see a sick pigeon as an easy meal, hawks, coyotes, fox, owls, hawks. plus how will you control what birds will have access to it, including endangered species.
prevent them from nesting for petes sake. and what harm are they really doing anyways, leave them alone


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

What part in Northern California is this hospital? we have some members here in SF and the Bay Area and people that care about pigeons and animals, we can try to go and see if are babies there and try to remove them but don't kill them, we love animals here and save a life is our goal, if you work for a hospital I guess you know what I'm talking about, let me know if you can't give information here just send me an email and we can work together and find a solution for your problem, but don't even try to kill them, I believe in Karma if you do something good for them you will get something good back in return.

Ivette


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Facility Manager....
I do believe you came to this site looking for real solution to the dilemma of Pigeons roosting at your facility. If you really wanted to poison them, you would have just done so without asking our forum members.
As you can read, poisoning is a hot topic here. We are pro-pigeons and we do value life of all creatures. I'm very sorry, if in the heat of responses, you have been demeaned. Such is not productive and certainly doesn't help the situation.
It is true that we have a number of northern California member that may be able to help. I also understand why you may be hesitant to disclose your location after some of the responses you have received here.
I will personally problem solve this humanely with you if you wish to contact me directly.
My email [email protected]

I will be unavailable until about 3pm, so if you email me, I will respond to you then.
Really, I just want to help.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Manager,

please be advised that poisoning is actually in violation of CA state laws (we can start with ~California Penal Code § 597. Cruelty to animals~ and go on to the plethora of state a county/local codes from there. So, basically, you could get in a whole mess of trouble if you take that route.....

And actually, most trapping is also illegal (despite what a contractor may tell you).

As you see, it's a hot topic here, and I do apologize for some of the replies which may have been offensive to you. As Charis says, we assume you are really looking for a solution.

There are SO MANY humane and LEGAL solutions available that one cannot begin to list in this post. However, given that at the moment there is no way to e-mail or PM you (Webmasters and Moderators...why not ?...My understanding was one needed to be a member to post, and if so, they should be able to rec'v messages) with the proper resources....

Please check back to continue the discussion. We can certainly be of help and you can resolve the situation in a simple, legal and humane way which would be the best result for the hospital administration, the pigeons, and the humans alike.


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

Also if you want to contact the SF ACC here is the phone number in 415-554-9400.

Ivette


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

*Well said.*



Lovebirds said:


> WOW! This is a great answer. A good way to get a person who came here and asked a question to just say "screw you AND this web site. where's the Avatrol?"
> I'm assuming the mods haven't seen this yet......because I just saw it. NOT a good way to "help" or do any good whatsoever. Geezzz...
> And we wonder why people don't like pigeons OR pigeon people.....
> Sad.


I agree with you. But look at it this way, it's an opportunity to educate the uneducated about pigeon's. If we disregard there opinion, as they have done our's...we are the same.Don't win an argument, persuade your opponent is wrong.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

To Lovebirds,

I am glad you liked the reply. I guess you think if you grovel enough it will prevent him from poisoning pigeons...again?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Grimaldy said:


> To Lovebirds,
> 
> I am glad you liked the reply. I guess you think if you grovel enough it will prevent him from poisoning pigeons...again?


Who said anything about groveling? Why not ask the person why it is that they have to continously kill pigeons in the same place because they keep coming back. 
The person abviously has killed pigeons before. They apparently know exactly HOW to do it. So, if they already KNOW this, why come here asking for advice? They ask if they should poison them. That's like asking someone if you should kill yourself. If you're going to kill yourself, then you just do it. You don't go around asking people whether they think you should or not. Just maybe this person doesn't WANT to "get rid of" pigeons the way they did "20 years ago" and are looking for alternative answers, and YOUR answer sure as hell didn't help them one bit.
You are one sarcastic person.
And by the way......that's all I have to say about it. I won't turn this thread into a battle of wits. That's not what it's about. So, you can just have a conversation with yourself.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

This thread really got ugly!.....can't we all just get along here! We all love our pigeons dearly and by the looks of it, this guy hasn't replyed back so Im assuming that he got the point! Let's carry on and keep the "pride" in check.....my 2cents....


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*ATTENTION FACILITITY MANAGER - PLEASE READ*
*OFFER TO HELP!*​
Whomever you are, if you return to the forum, I just wanted to let you know that I would be happy to volunteer my services to help remove babies and find humane solutions to your pigeon problem. Please feel free to send me a Private Message using this form. I would be happy to help, and as already mentioned, there a number of us Northern CA folks who would be glad to assist you.


*Thank you SO much for coming here FIRST and asking for help.*
I (and the pigeons) really really appreciate it!!!
I also understand that not everyone loves pigeons as much as we forum members obviosuly do, so _please_ forgive any members that may have insulted you or made you feel like you did the wrong thing by coming here. You did the right thing. 

Please do contact me or any other Northern CA member offering assistance, so that we can help you out.


Best,
Kari Jo
Oakland, CA


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I am a Facilities Manager myself, not at a Hospital thou. I think this post was a set up from the beginning. If on my Building, which is no were near as Politically sensitive, as far as the public goes, I had a Pigeon problem, there is NO way i would even ASK such a question on a public Forum. This Post is B.S., or this Manager is a complete MORON! Dave


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I bet you never hear from this "trickster" Again... Dave


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you to our members who have offered their hands on assistance to Facility Manager and thanks to those who have posted about the extreme inhumanity of using Avitrol .. It's inhumane not only for the pigeons but for any other life form that comes into contact with this poison. AND, as has been posted, it's ineffective.

The solution lies in making the roosting and nesting spots inaccessible and in making an effort to see that the birds do not have easy access to food scraps.

Let's everyone keep the lines of communication open here and let's keep it civil.

Terry


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

The plain truth folks is that LuckyT has probably put his finger right on it.

It would be difficult to believe a hospital manager, a person with demonstrated skills and responsibility, would simply wander into a pigeon support forum with no clue as to what goes on here and ask advice for eliminating or removing pigeons. The implied threat being that poison worked well before. Second, it would be more difficult to believe that a hospital manager would not have a maintenance-clean up crew that would deal with nuisances; he would most likely ask them to do something about it. A business manager would look for the cheapest, and easilest way to deal with a problem, assuming he has decided to do his own maintenance and clean up work, namely call in an exterminator.

It speaks well of those members who take his posting at face value and offer to help; I am of the view their good nature has simply been some clown's humor for the day. I suspect I am not alone in that view. Less I belabor the obvious, this "hospital manager" has not exactly rushed to take up any of the good faith offers several members have so pleadingly extended.

And I doubt he or she ever will.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*I am So Annoyed...*



Grimaldy said:


> The plain truth folks is that LuckyT has probably put his finger right on it.
> 
> It would be difficult to believe a hospital manager, a person with demonstrated skills and responsibility, would simply wander into a pigeon support forum with no clue as to what goes on here and ask advice for eliminating or removing pigeons. The implied threat being that poison worked well before. Second, it would be more difficult to believe that a hospital manager would not have a maintenance-clean up crew that would deal with nuisances; he would most likely ask them to do something about it. A business manager would look for the cheapest, and easilest way to deal with a problem, assuming he has decided to do his own maintenance and clean up work, namely call in an exterminator.
> 
> ...


I agree we will never hear from this person again considering some of the the welcoming posts which weren't very welcoming at all. I noticed yours has been deleted.
Why would he/she stick around to be demeaned and belittled? Why would he/she think we could offer helpful advise? We sure have fit the profile of a BUNCH OF NUTS....And you are right...he/she probably is having a good laugh right now and probably some pigeons are going to be poisioned.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Well Charis, 
if I were you I would not be in such a hurry to give him something more to laugh at!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

THERE IS NO " Facilities" Manager, GET with it! I do that Job for a living. you could have BOLD FACED swore at him/her and it would have made no difference. That post was a JOKE somebody was playing, or someone so poor at their Job i wish they would post were they worked, because i would have their job within a Month. A facilities manager has to be very P.C. correct.
GEEE... why did she/he not identify themselves? Because he/she are NOT what they say. I feel every ones response here was justified.
Again if that guy is real, HE is one of the worst facility Managers i have ever heard of, and i want his job! You were never in a position to help this person.... If i was head administration at that Hospital, and heard of this he would be GONE the Minute i found out about it. That attitude was out of style in the early 80's as far as P.R. goes. Dave


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

If anyone comes back and is not scared off I would be happy to help.

I live near Sacramento and my mom works at Mercy San Juan and my sister at Kaiser. If I can do anything let me know.

(didn't seem very out of the ordinary to me. It's a HOSPITAL and remember pigeons "are worse than rats" to most people)


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimberly, in that position, if the fact you were EVEN thinking about poisoning Pigeons, were to get out, it would be front page "Local" news and would make the Hospital look like hell. Dave


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I never said I thought it was ok......

I don't think the newspaper would really care either. I think sometimes we forget just how violently a lot of people hate pigeons. 

Anyways, my offer still stands, and no I did not mean I would help anyone poison them.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimberly, with all do respect the public, in my opinion has a better view of "wild" pigeons than you think... I know this first Hand i think it was 81' or so Lake County,Court house Building, in Ill. had a pigeon problem, the facilities manager had to be very careful as to how he answered, when the local papers came to cover the story, i being unemployed at the time offered to catch them of the Building. the building manager, was a forward thinking kind of Man, and gave me a night watch man Job so it would "sweeten" my removal deal with him. He handled the paers well, NO talk of flying rats ect. even the local politicians were very kind about the birds... Gary Wisby, From the Sun times contacted me for a phone interview, and wrote about the interview. Some where in these piles of papew i have copies of 3 or 4 articles written in the times, Trib., and local paper. There WAS NOT one politically incorrect statement about the pigeons, just that they had to go in a humane way.... This is a true story. If the "facilities" Manager attempted to poison the birds PETA, ECT. would be ALL over him! Dave


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Terry, I'm just giving you a head start this thread might be on fire... I hope not but you'll hear about this when you get the PM or someone send you the report post...


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

?????????????????????????????????????


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

What are you talking about?


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Thats good lucky....I do like to hear stories like that. And of course I wish/hope it will be/is always like that. Anyways I just said what I thought especially b/c it is a hospital and people would be less tolerant of pigeons there.

But anyways, I still would like to help..... if the OP is still here my number is 916-768-8141 just an extra body not afraid to get in there and get dirty to help some local pigeons.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I too find it hard to believe that someone in that position would come on here, of all places, and end his/her post with 'Should I poison them"? Doesn't that seem a little weird to anyone? And if that is what they were used to doing, and were considering it again, to come on here and ask if he/she should..................................Just doesn't ring true to me.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

There is no way to tell really so the only responsible option is to treat it like a real situation.

When you type in "pigeon forum" on yahoo this is the first site that pops up. They didn't take the time to register who's to say they took the time to read about whether we were pro/anti pigeon. After all there are maaaaaaany anti pigeon websites out there.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

So true Kimberly, but if this person was in that position, they would be ousted in a Heart beat if their superiors got wind of it. NO Manager would good to a Public forum to handle such a matter. Dave


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Kimberly_CA said:


> There is no way to tell really so the only responsible option is to treat it like a real situation.
> 
> When you type in "pigeon forum" on yahoo this is the first site that pops up. They didn't take the time to register who's to say they took the time to read about whether we were pro/anti pigeon. After all there are maaaaaaany anti pigeon websites out there.


Okay. You have a point.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

LUCKYT said:


> So true Kimberly, but if this person was in that position, they would be ousted in a Heart beat if their superiors got wind of it. NO Manager would good to a Public forum to handle such a matter. Dave


Also true.....but she didn't leave a name or the hopital's name either.....

Anyways don't take me the wrong way, there is nothing alright about the situation (or possible situation), i'm just trying to solve it.

And there are bad managers/bad people all over the place. I would not put it past a member of the human race to try and take the shortcut to make their job easier without their boss getting wind of it.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Not trying to burst your bubble guys but, that person got his/her answer and I'm sure he/she must have done it right after he/she read the responses...No way to track him/her down, only from the IP addy I think...But who knows if he/she is using another computer to ask some question like this...As far as I know "The man up there don't like UGLY"...Like Jay3 said "the world is boring if we all get along"...


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Since it was only this morning i'm thinking there is a good chance the pigeons have not been removed and i'm probly really close I had to offer help......

We will probly never know, good luck to the pigeons.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

LOL! The whole point being there NEVER was a real post. Just somebody trying to mess with peoples heads. YOU can not be an Idiot, and manage a Hospitals facilities. SO, he never would post on a site to begin with, and IF the person was silly enough too, they would have researched the site.. 
And if the man upstairs did not like ugly, HE WOULD HAVE LEFT THE WORLD UNPOPULATED! LOL! Dave


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

Oh I hear plenty about idiotic hospital managers  My entire family practicly works in or around hospitals. They are just people too....


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

I don't think that person is managing a hospital, he/she must be a maintenance manager of the hospital and was told to get rid of those pigeons and wants to know the other way how to do it...I won't even bother answering his/her questions...It's not like he/she will listen anyway...I'm sorry but just stating the reality here not fantasy...

Oh I wanna add...He/she shud of called this thread; Filthy Manager not Facility Manager...


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Good point Kimberly, But as one my self, the "Facilities manager" is at the bottom of the management food chain, so to speak. Trust me i have less room for error, than almost anyone in the plant. I.E. NO heat? Who's to blame? no running water? Who's to blame? You want to kill pigeons?, and get the Bad p.r.? Bye! Bye! Dave lol! We are the most important, and the easiest to get rid of in any building. I Beg this person, if they are real, to register under an assumed name, and P.M. and i will tell them how to handle this problem and avoid loosing their job. REAL? NOT Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I went to this hospital and they have interesting pigeon control. Basically in places where the pigeons can land or roost they put several thin metal wires running from one area to another so that the pigeons can't land on them because they can't get traction. It is not even a bird spike at all. I found it to be clever. I am supposing that facilities manager takes care of the building and the person's concern is how to get rid of pigeons fast if at all humanely. Unfortunately getting rid of pigeons fast usually ends up inhumanely. How strange though that a hospital is the place where you have to kill.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds like a good way to control pigeons RodSD. You're right. Sad that a hospital is a place where they have to kill. Or for that matter, that killing is the answer anywhere.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> Well Charis,
> if I were you I would not be in such a hurry to give him something more to laugh at!


Innocent until proven guilty?

This isn't about me being made a fool of or my ego being hurt!!!! I don't give a HOOT about that. To worry about such would be truly emotionally immature. 


This is about birds being kept out of harms way and doing what we can to keep them safe.

When we get this kind of a post...SCARISM and MEANNESS of SPIRIT MUST stay out of it because someone we THINK could be a prankster may not be.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Do No Harm...*

We seem to be living in a world that is getting less hospitable every day. Look closely at any endeavor our species has engaged in and it appears we are unaware of the harm we do, we ignore the harm we do, we intentionally do harm for our own gain, or sadly in some cases we do harm for our own pleasure and enjoyment.




Has no one taught us to do no harm?




If we haven't been taught to do no harm, we see no harm in doing harm. We cause harm and shrug it off. We cause harm and laugh about it. We cause harm and brag about it.




Sadder still, our children bear witness to our actions and never learn to do no harm themselves. Above all else we must teach our children, by example and instruction, this basic moral principle of life.




We must begin to make better choices and treat each other, the other creatures who share this planet with us, and this planet we call home with greater respect and compassion.




We believe that the first and most basic moral law is, "Do no harm." Because we can feel pain and suffering, we can imagine the pain and suffering of others, and we can act accordingly to minimize the harm we cause.




What does "do no harm" mean? Ultimately it means to give thoughtful consideration to our actions. “Do no harm” simply means to consider how our actions may affect the world we all share, to be compassionate in our dealings with all creatures, and not to thoughtlessly despoil our planet.




Doctors are asked to “first do no harm,” why not lawyers, businessmen, religious leaders and politicians? Why not us? Why not now?




It sounds like a simple idea because it is a simple idea, but it may be effective over the long run. Will “do no harm” solve all the problems in our world? Perhaps not, but this is an effort to decrease the suffering in the world and to increase the kindness.




We hope that “do no harm” becomes that little voice that guides our actions.




And we hope you will join us and spread the message "Do no harm."
_________________


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Charis said:


> Innocent until proven guilty?
> 
> This isn't about me being made a fool of or my ego being hurt!!!! I don't give a HOOT about that. To worry about such would be truly emotionally immature.
> 
> ...


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Charis, I like that. Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, I have to agree that if we all considered, in what we do, what effect it would have on our world, and on all the other creatures who share it, it would surely be a much better place to live. And I also have to agree that a child learns by what they see. So the sad thing is that the world is getting more and more selfish. And the children growing up today are seeing this as a model of what they should be. Therefore, we are producing a very selfish and unfeeling generation. It doesn't take much to put yourself in anothers place, but sadly, to few do this anymore. And it is a completely foreign concept to so many. Funny.............it is those very people who would expect consideration and fairness from others. It may sound silly to some, but come on now, wouldn't the world be a much better, happier, and safer place in which to live if we all tried a little harder to live by that rule?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

*Do No Harm*

Charis, that was Excellent!!!!!!!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Well, I have to agree that if we all considered, in what we do, what effect it would have on our world, and on all the other creatures who share it, it would surely be a much better place to live. And I also have to agree that a child learns by what they see. So the sad thing is that the world is getting more and more selfish. And the children growing up today are seeing this as a model of what they should be. Therefore, we are producing a very selfish and unfeeling generation. It doesn't take much to put yourself in anothers place, but sadly, to few do this anymore. And it is a completely foreign concept to so many. Funny.............it is those very people who would expect consideration and fairness from others. It may sound silly to some, but come on now, wouldn't the world be a much better, happier, and safer place in which to live if we all tried a little harder to live by that rule?


AND I'LL SECOND THIS!!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

That is great, Charis.

On the off chance this person was for real and wants help, I too will help, just send me a private message for my e-mail address.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

maryjane said:


> That is great, Charis.
> 
> On the off chance this person was for real and wants help, I too will help, just send me a private message for my e-mail address.


I know you would help and I appreciate that about you. Sadly, he has not been back, at least not that I have heard.


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