# Mauled White Bird with Leg Band



## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

Found a dead white pigeon or dove on my patio (Chicago - North Side) with the following marked on its tag:

AU 2011 13365

Whose is it?
Can you tell from the photos how it was killed?
Thanks.
DD


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

DD from the picture it was most likely killed from a bird of prey such as a coopers hawk or peregrine falcon.


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## jaelyn loft (Oct 25, 2011)

i would have to agree


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks, WonWord. I didn't realize we had such birds of prey in the city of Chicago.
So, they just eat the innards and leave the flesh?

How do I trace the ID info?
DD


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

Type AU bandlist on your browser.


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

Orock, thanks for the suggestion. I went to the tag search menu. Is that what you meant? It came back invalid.


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

orock said:


> Type AU bandlist on your browser.





Dead Dove said:


> Orock, thanks for the suggestion. I went to the tag search menu. Is that what you meant? It came back invalid.


Oh. I see that you really can just type that in the browser and get the American Racing Pigeon Union! Thanks. We'll see.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I really don't see the necessity to post such a graphic photo 
And were not suppose to......
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/th...-photos-33505.html?highlight=graphic+pictures


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

Ms.FreeBird,

It is sad to see, but I am only learning about this pigeon culture now and want to know such things as what happens to these birds and who cares for them. Already I have two respondents who informed me of the likely cause of death based specifically on what they can see from the picture. It is good to rule out human cruelty. And I had also wondered if a dog or cat (racoon?) would do that.

Sorry the way to this knowledge is by turning the lights on and looking closely.
DD


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dead Dove said:


> Ms.FreeBird,
> 
> It is sad to see, but I am only learning about this pigeon culture now and want to know such things as what happens to these birds and who cares for them. Already I have two respondents who informed me of the likely cause of death based specifically on what they can see from the picture. It is good to rule out human cruelty. And I had also wondered if a dog or cat (racoon?) would do that.
> 
> ...


Dog, cat, hawk,....whats it matter. The poor thing is ripped apart obviously by some kind of predator.....doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out  
That is not an education photo.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Dead Dove said:


> Ms.FreeBird,
> 
> It is sad to see, but I am only learning about this pigeon culture now and want to know such things as what happens to these birds and who cares for them. Already I have two respondents who informed me of the likely cause of death based specifically on what they can see from the picture. It is good to rule out human cruelty. And I had also wondered if a dog or cat (racoon?) would do that.
> 
> *Sorry the way to this knowledge is by turning the lights on and looking closely.*DD


Shame you didnt look more closely at the forum rules first, then you would have had more knowlege about what you are allowed to post & what you arent.
Its amazing how many people do not read the forum rules when joining and posting.

Graphic pics like that are allowed in certain circumstances and if they have to be posted, they could have been put in an album with a warning & links, rather than on open posts.

To be honest, any predator could have killed it and just dropped it.


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

To be honest, any predator could have killed it and just dropped it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. This is the info I needed. And I've spent enough time trying to look up this poor animal's owner.

Perhaps you caring people can take it from here.
Over and out.
DD


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

We would if we could. That is not all the band information.

Unless that "1" is an "I" or an "l"


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I assumed it was an I and contacted Foy's. I will let the club secretary know.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you for taking the time to try and figure out who to notify. Not many would be so concerned.
The images maybe difficult for some to look at but no more difficult for some of us than looking at a roasted chicken or a roasted turkey. All were innocents and all had the misfortune of a violent end...it's sad.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> *Thank you for taking the time to try and figure out who to notify. Not many would be so concerned.*
> The images maybe difficult for some to look at but no more difficult for some of us than looking at a roasted chicken or a roasted turkey. All were innocents and all had the misfortune of a violent end...it's sad.


Yes.....but he could have done it without the picture.
And the rest of the post......wtf  Guess I had a bad day and not in the mood for unnecessary bs.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Charis said:


> Thank you for taking the time to try and figure out who to notify. Not many would be so concerned.
> The images maybe difficult for some to look at but no more difficult for some of us than looking at a roasted chicken or a roasted turkey. All were innocents and all had the misfortune of a violent end...it's sad.




I agree, It is not nice to see, but this person went to the effort of trying to find out where the bird came from and the cause of death, Most people would have thrown it in a plastic bad in the bin and be done with it, Good on you and I don't know why people are so offended.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Charis said:


> Thank you for taking the time to try and figure out who to notify. Not many would be so concerned.
> The images maybe difficult for some to look at but no more difficult for some of us than *looking at a roasted chicken or a roasted turkey*. All were innocents and all had the misfortune of a violent end...it's sad.


A roasted chicken or turkey does not show the carnage that these pics do, and really were completely unnessessary to show directly and upsetting for some.

but I agree that it was good and thougtful of the poster to try to find out & notify the owner.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I agree, It is not nice to see, but this person went to the effort of trying to find out where the bird came from and the cause of death, Most people would have thrown it in a plastic bad in the bin and be done with it, Good on you and I don't know why people are so offended.


I agree with you 100%! Of course its sad to see an image of anything dead, but all pigeon owners who fly birds have experienced this (at least in my area). This guy is being nice and at least trying to learn about the bird, its owner and its predator. Lets not ignore the fact that our pet birds are at the absolute bottom of the food chain, and breeding show pigeons and for other qualities such as the white (as in this bird) makes them even easier to catch by predators. If you cant figure out that it is a graphic post by the title "mauled white bird with leg band" then I dont know what to say, except let someone who understands the circle of life (like NZ Pigeons) respond to the nice guy who was kind enough to investigate the crime seen. Also, what if in fact an air gun shot or some other unnatural thing that killed this poor bird, maybe the poster would be kind enough to find out who shot it. Also, it most likely wasnt "any predator," it has very distinct markings of a bird of prey kill. Sorry about the rant, but no need to scare anybody away by being sour towards them.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree that it was nice of the poster to try to find the owner....but that's all I agree with. It wasn't necessary to post a picture of a ripped apart bird.....and I stand my ground on that. It's one thing to post a graphic picture for educational purposes, I don't have a problem with that. Being a surgery tech, I've seen and assisted with some pretty nasty things, so it's not that I have a weak stomach 
If you people want to nit pick about *what* kind of predator....at least have the common decency of posting a LINK to a picture. And I don't see what correlation it has to do with a roasted chicken or turkey. 
The only reason I read that post was because I was going to try to help find the owner by the band. Guess I'll just butt out, and won't try to help.....OK


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## jboy1 (Jan 26, 2005)

Be glad they try to find the owner, If you have pigeons this is a site you will see at some point, so stop crying, come on my god its nature.


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## Dead Dove (Dec 2, 2011)

Good call on the letter "I" in the postings above. I thought I was done here, still not completely satisfied that I had located the owner, but realizing I had introduced something of a lightening rod with my photo. However, I'm still getting email notices. 

Upon closer observation, I see that there is a vertical line between AU 2011 and 13365. The numeral "1" here is definitely a "1." But it could be that what I took for a vertical separator is actually a very skinny letter "I." So: AU 2011 I 13365


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes  That is a skinny I. I don't know why it looks so weird on the bands but I've had birds banded with those before. I will send another email to foys correcting it. Should hear back monday since it's the weekend now.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jboy1 said:


> Be glad they try to find the owner, If you have pigeons this is a site you will see at some point, so stop crying, come on my god its nature.


I don't appreciate a PM telling me to grow up. There's rules to this forum and unnecessary graphic photo's is one of them. 
I could go into a rant here...but I'll refrain. I have a loft* full* of unclaimed banded racing homers (close to 200 now!) that racing people didn't want back  So don't even get me going.
Like I said.........................It's nice he tried to find the owner
But to post that picture because he's 'curious' as to 'what' killed it is asinine- We could all make 50 guesses, so what's the point? That's equivalent to 'rubber necks' driving by an accident....that's nature too, but does everybody have to gawk.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> I agree that it was nice of the poster to try to find the owner....but that's all I agree with. It wasn't necessary to post a picture of a ripped apart bird.....and I stand my ground on that. It's one thing to post a graphic picture for educational purposes, I don't have a problem with that. Being a surgery tech, I've seen and assisted with some pretty nasty things, so it's not that I have a weak stomach
> If you people want to nit pick about *what* kind of predator....at least have the common decency of posting a LINK to a picture. And I don't see what correlation it has to do with a roasted chicken or turkey.
> The only reason I read that post was because I was going to try to help find the owner by the band. Guess I'll just butt out, and won't try to help.....OK


It was educational for me, I am from NZ where birds of prey are very scarce, I have never seen anything like this and consider the picture educational in that sense. I now understand why you guys do not fly your birds when birds of prey are at their worst


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> I don't appreciate a PM telling me to grow up. There's rules to this forum and unnecessary graphic photo's is one of them.
> I could go into a rant here...but I'll refrain. I have a loft* full* of unclaimed banded racing homers (close to 200 now!) that racing people didn't want back  So don't even get me going.
> Like I said.........................It's nice he tried to find the owner
> But to post that picture because he's 'curious' as to 'what' killed it is asinine- We could all make 50 guesses, so what's the point? That's equivalent to 'rubber necks' driving by an accident....that's nature too, but does everybody have to gawk.


I think you have ranted if im honest.

People post pictures of pigeons on here and ask what colour it is or the colour combination, That is partly guessing but it is educating people, Just as this is educating the creator of this thread... And me as in my other post.


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks for trying to find out the information Dead Dove. Please excuse a few here who are not equipped to deal with the realitys of life.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

beatlemike said:


> Thanks for trying to find out the information Dead Dove. *Please excuse a few here who are not equipped to deal with the realitys of life*.


Its not a case of that. I for one have dealt with a lot more visual realities in real life, far worse than what was posted by the Graphical images that were posted. The fact remains that according to forum rules they should not have been posted on open forum, and as MSfreebird says, is equivalent to rubberneckers at an accident.
Even to anyone with little sense or knowledge of birds (or indeed any creature) could guess as to how the bird died and without any forensical science investigation thats all it would be.
Heres another "guess", the bird may have died from other causes, been found by any number of other predators then dropped.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

1) There is nothing in the Forum Rules of Conduct about what is being described as 'graphic' images. Maybe it isn't just new members who need to read them before posting 

2) Yes, there's a sticky thread entitled _Threads Containing Graphic Photos_, but it is in the _General Discussions_ forum, not this one. 

3) The sticky was probably prompted by earlier thread(s) which did contain somewhat disturbing images. Those around at the time no doubt understood what 'graphic photos' was intended to convey, but it's not a real meaningful term, so no particular reason why anybody would read it before posting anyway. 'Disturbing' or 'shocking' might be better.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

John_D said:


> 1) There is nothing in the Forum Rules of Conduct about what is being described as 'graphic' images. Maybe it isn't just new members who need to read them before posting
> 
> 2) Yes, there's a sticky thread entitled _Threads Containing Graphic Photos_, but it is in the _General Discussions_ forum, not this one.
> 
> 3) The sticky was probably prompted by earlier thread(s) which did contain somewhat disturbing images. Those around at the time no doubt understood what 'graphic photos' was intended to convey, but it's not a real meaningful term, so no particular reason why anybody would read it before posting anyway. 'Disturbing' or 'shocking' might be better.


Oh, I see, we have to be a lawyer now to figure out 'where', 'what', and 'if' something should be posted? It was exactly 'that' type of picture that prompted this...... 


> Skyeking's Avatar
> Skyeking Skyeking is offline
> Super Moderator
> 
> ...


I interpret 'this forum' as 'All of Pigeon Talk', and that graphic pictures should be confined to 'Sick or Injured Birds' for the purpose of treating them.
So what are you saying? It's OK to post shredded birds everywhere 'except' the 'General Discussion'?
If that's the case, I should have posted pictures of my 30+/- slaughter, decapitated and shredded birds in my loft to show people what happens when they use 'chicken wire'!
Whatever you say


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I think you have ranted if im honest.
> 
> People post pictures of pigeons on here and ask what colour it is or the colour combination, That is partly guessing but it is educating people, Just as this is educating the creator of this thread... And me as in my other post.


This is not a rant.....this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Posting a bird for color identity is quite a bit different.....and I don't think the 'color experts' would appreciate your reference that they are 'guessing'.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Ok enough with the BS, lets help the guy find the owner and we already identified the cause of death, which regardless of what anyone says, is important. And btw, the rules say "if you have a predator type bird . . . ," im sure dead dove does not, as he is asking the cause of death.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Msfreebird

Please read my post. If what I have said is unclear, fine, then say so, but do not wilfully misinterpret something I said to give it some meaning that isn't in there.

What I am saying is this:

The Forum Rules of Conduct do not  mention the posting of 'graphic images'. Read them, and tell us if that statement is correct or not. 

The point about the sticky is that because it is in the General Discussions area, we can't expect somebody who is posting in the 'sick and injured' section to have necessarily even seen it. Does that clarify what I said?

The other point about the sticky is that the title of it is not particularly attention-grabbing. It doesn't come across as a warning about anything. For anybody about to post, assuming (1) they even went into General Discussions, and (2) they did look at the sticky titles, there's nothing to indicate that it refers to (as I said) 'disturbing' or 'shocking' images.

I hope that makes it clear.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

wonword said:


> Ok enough with the BS, lets help the guy find the owner and *we already identified the cause of death*, which regardless of what anyone says, is important. And btw, the rules say "if you have a predator type bird . . . ," im sure dead dove does not, as he is asking the cause of death.


LOL, Congratulations!...........


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

John_D said:


> Msfreebird
> 
> Please read my post. If what I have said is unclear, fine, then say so, but do not wilfully misinterpret something I said to give it some meaning that isn't in there.
> 
> ...


I realize this John, that's why I posted the LINK in my 1st response, trying to educate the poster that this has been brought up before.
And I also reported the post before it got into this debate.
OK, so it's only a 'sticky'. So back to my question......It's OK to post pictures of shredded birds?
Oh, and if you'd be so kind as to post a link to the 'rules of conduct' for me. I put it in search and I can't find them. I saw them only once.....when I registered.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

wonword said:


> Ok enough with the BS, lets help the guy find the owner and we already identified the cause of death, which regardless of what anyone says, is important. And btw, the rules say "if you have a predator type bird . . . ," im sure dead dove does not, as he is asking the cause of death.


As I understand it, that is what Becky is doing.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Msfreebird said:


> I realize this John, that's why I posted the LINK in my 1st response, trying to educate the poster that this has been brought up before.
> And I also reported the post before it got into this debate.
> OK, so it's only a 'sticky'. So back to my question......It's OK to post pictures of shredded birds?
> Oh, and if you'd be so kind as to post a link to the 'rules of conduct' for me. I put it in search and I can't find them. I saw them only once.....when I registered.


* Rules of Conduct: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f9/forum-rules-of-conduct-7006.html

* As far as what images are 'OK' and what are not, I guess it's every case on its merits, with the sticky as guidance. In this instance, DD was just doing what seemed logical, without benefit of any 'guidelines' at the time. 

If I knew for a fact that a fox got in and killed some of my birds, there would be no point in posting a picture of the dead birds. Similar if I found dead birds lying around and a quick look told me they had been shot. 

Maybe the question anybody should ask themselves before posting may be "'will it be helpful to potential responders to see what I'm talking about, rather than me trying to describe it?". 

* Yep, I picked up your reported post this morning UK time. Don't know what time it was your time when you sent it, but it didn't appear that anyone had responded to it.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

John_D said:


> * Rules of Conduct: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f9/forum-rules-of-conduct-7006.html
> 
> * As far as what images are 'OK' and what are not, I guess it's every case on its merits, with the sticky as guidance. In this instance, DD was just doing what seemed logical, without benefit of any 'guidelines' at the time.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link, but after 20 minutes of searching, I found it....their not easy to find 
I don't think all this 'back and forth' was necessary, I don't think any of my responses were inappropriate (and I not saying you accused me of that), and I still don't think that picture was necessary. But that's MY interpretation of the matter based on situations in the past.
I also don't think I deserved a PM telling me to grow up......That was inappropriate and childish


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Msfreebird said:


> ........................
> 
> I also don't think I deserved a PM telling me to grow up......That was inappropriate and childish


I agree. Just because we have an opinion someone else doesn't go with, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with us 'as a person'.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I do NOT think that the thread starter had any malice or evil intent posting the picture or made fun of the bird being dead and eaten, so that needs to be considerd also. being flexible for the right reasons is important. Yes this bird was past trying to help for sure but it was posted in the spirit of concern.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> This is not a rant.....this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
> Posting a bird for color identity is quite a bit different.....and I don't think the 'color experts' would appreciate your reference that they are 'guessing'.


It's just you said " Im not going to Rant" however you continued.

I realise posting a bird for colour identity is different yes, But I was just pointing out that for some people that is education and for others this is.

Also I am no expert on genetics but am well researched and have a very good understanding on the basics of pigeon genetics. I'm sure any expert would agree that there is an element of guessing involved when looking at a picture of a bird and trying to figure out what its genotype is. Basically without knowing the background of the pigeons breeding then noone can completely identify a birds colour from a photo. So I stick by what I said. 

I have seen many threads where the so called colour experts have changed there mind or been prooved wrong as to what the colour is, therefore they have guessed and been wrong. An informed guess maybe but still a guess.
Goerge simon once said a bird was a blue with indigo, It turned out to be an ash red cockbird which was discovered when tracing back its parents and I figured out that due to sex linkage it had to be a red based bird, Also I have seen Becky changed from one guess to another, Not saying there is anything wrong with that at all...... But It validates my point that there is some guessing involved. If any of the colour experts disagree or are offended please let me know. Doubt it though


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## pigiesNdovies (Nov 21, 2011)

i hear bird bracelets r like car license plates 2 track owners. dont know watt web pg 2 use or bird dmv 2 use....either way the owner will find out his bird was picked up 4 a quik meal cuz its winter n all r hungry

i know who killed it...a carnivorous animal like hawks n falcons cuz feathers r plucked out n most of the stomach is missing.

please read my "new thread " on "general category: BREAKING NEWS: hawks, owls, etc eating ur pets....ull c my most recent eye witnessing story.

For those who hunt m shoot birds this is the real "mother nature....please stop takin away wildlife their food chain cuz u only forcin wildlife to go after domestic pets. if u soooo hungry to shoot birds, there is pollo loco, buerger king, food centers with freshly saniticed meat


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Foy's sold the band. The person who bought the band doesn't want their information given out so I asked if they could pass on the news to the person for us


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