# Bad canker, throwing up, starvation...



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, basically, i found a pigeon about 10 days ago that had a puncture wound under wing, and very bad canker, to the point the eyes looked very off because of the swelling in throat, the skin was being pulled tight there and making the eyes look strange.
I started to tube feed, and for 3-4 days he threw up everything, i managed to feed more often with less, and added nutrical, also medicated with baytril and flagyl. The canker has been going down, and he even started to eat a bit, even though the seeds were getting stuck because his throat is so full of canker, i just made sure to pull them out. I have him on heat as much as possible. Yesterday he started to throw up again, i am wondering if the canker is in the stomach? He has lost a lot of weight, by the feel of the keel bone he is starving, the first 3-4 days it was all grass green poops, the poops got better, and his keel bone was very protruded when i found him. Honestly, when i found him, i didnt think he would make it through the night, and i was going to try to help, but thought all would happen would be him having a comfy spot to die. Well, he's a fighter, but he has taken a turn for the worse, cannot keep anything down, and he is starting to stumble, like he is drunk, which i have seen with starvation once. 
Is there anything i can give, or do, that will help him keep food down? What else can i do? I dont have much hope, i am surprised he lasted this long, but i dont want to give up. Any advice here??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Moxie, Some one suggested a bit of Peptobismo [sp] to coat the crop. I don't recall who said that or I would give them credit.Personally, I have not tried that but it could work.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

do you think i should try it Charis? And how much?
I just fed him a few hours ago, just checked him and the crop has a bit left in it, he did throw some up, he is a very strong bird, and i want to help him so bad. When i feed him again i will try it if you think i should?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would try it. I honestly don't know how much you should give him...may 1/4 cc? Also, I would reduce the amount you are feeding and feed more often. Maybe that will help.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I said Pepto for sourcrop*

Does the bird have sourcrop or canker? If the bird has canker, it should be cured in a few days with the proper medication. I would use Metronidizol (if I had it) or Dimetronidizol (Emtryl) in tablet form.

If you suspect sourcrop, you can give 1/4 tablet of Pepto Bismol orally per day for a few days, usually two or three days. This is a completely risk free treatment and I wish everyone knew about it as it does work for sourcrop.

Alot of people don't seem to have the tablets around but have liquid and I would not know how to dose it but a few drops are certainly not going to hurt a bird.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Flagyl is a brand name for Metronidazole.
The idea is to coat the crop so I think the liquid would be best in this particular case.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I've used liquid PeptoBismol. It was recommended to me here last year when some of my birds were throwing up. I also found this post, in an older thread, with a dosage. I give about 0.05 ml several times a day.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=126263&postcount=137


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I thought it was but don't want to assume*



Charis said:


> Flagel is a brand name for Metronidazole.
> The idea is to coat the crop so I think the liquid would be best in this particular case.


Anyway, the tablet will coat just as well as it disolves very quickly once given, just like it does in our own stomach but either one will work fine.

Bill


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, i gave a tiny bit of liquid, and very little food, we'll see how it goes. 
I have pills and liquid, so if the liquid doesnt work i will try the pills..
He doesnt have sourcrop, it is canker, although i suppose he could have anything on top of it. He's a feral pigeon, by the way...


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Vomiting can be a sign of E coli*



xxmoxiexx said:


> ok, i gave a tiny bit of liquid, and very little food, we'll see how it goes.
> I have pills and liquid, so if the liquid doesnt work i will try the pills..
> He doesnt have sourcrop, it is canker, although i suppose he could have anything on top of it. He's a feral pigeon, by the way...


But the Baytril should have taken care of that I would think. Maybe it's just that he has canker so bad. Get him cured of that and go from there. It should be gone in a few days.

The Pepto Bismol treatment is really for sourcrop and nothing else but it is so harmless that it won't hurt anything and it may even help his digestive system to begin working properly again.

Bill


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## tms1950 (Aug 23, 2005)

Moxie,do you have any licensed wildlife rehabilitators near you that will do pigeons? The staggering around sounds like he may be severely dehydrated and needs to be injected with lactated ringers to bring his blood sugar & electrolytes up.If he has been unable to keep much down,it makes sense that he needs rehydrating quickly.
Teresa 
For The Birds Wildlife Rehab


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Teresa, I have had some bad experiences with rehabbers here, i have a wildlife vet, but it is a ways away, and i have finals the next few days, making it impossible to go, any other time and i would have already been there...
I do have some good newsd though, the pepto seems to have worked, and he isnt stumbling as much. I have a heater in there, and that seems to have helped...
I think i need a different canker med, so far the last 3 have had the same throwing up, bad canker, very bad, and the flagyl isnt working as well as it has in the past. What are the other medications used for canker in place or with Flagyl?
So far, one seemed to have a hole in the crop, as the liquid would dribble out, all 3 died quickly.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Raina, you have spartrix tablets for canker


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ohhh, Spartix works for canker also? I didnt know that...
Does anyone know the dosage?
Nona, you are my hero!


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Raina...is it an adult or a baby??
1 whole pill per day for 3 days (you can break it in half if that makes it easier to get down it's throat) that is for an adult.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

he's an adult. You know, he was primping and preening earlier, but i do know the effects of starvation tend to take a few days to wear off. What is weird is i have been tube feeding him before this happened, and he DOESNT have grass green poops, his poops look fine, so why is he falling down/stumbling?
Also, should i continue flagyl WITH spartix, or just spartix from now on?


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't answer that Raina.....best to ask Pidgey about mixing them.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok Nona, i will ask him. I'll post what he said too...


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

I hope the bird starts feeling better soon! I just went through the same thing w/ my liitle one. I don't think she was as bad off as your sounds to be. Good Luck and I hope you can save his life.
My wildlife vet told me not to feed seed when she was sick. I had to use the Kaytee exact for a few days. She said the seed could just stay there. It would look like they were full when they were really starving. That they "could" have trouble digesting when sick. The Kaytee diluted w/water would help w/ feeding and help prevent dehydration. I may have mis worded what the vet said but I know it was somewhere around those lines. I was also told to weigh her 2x day to make sure she was gaining weight. She said that after giving the meds it was the secondary stuff that could kill her. Such as not eating! Keep us posted


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> he's an adult. You know, he was primping and preening earlier, but i do know the effects of starvation tend to take a few days to wear off. What is weird is i have been tube feeding him before this happened, and he DOESNT have grass green poops, his poops look fine, so why is he falling down/stumbling?
> Also, should i continue flagyl WITH spartix, or just spartix from now on?


Moxie, for what it's worth........the pigeon supply companies sell 4 in 1 and 3 in 1 mixes for canker, coccidiosis, and worms.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks Renee, do you think using a 3 or 4 in one is better? Can you worm a p[igeon that is this sick?
Ok, Pidgey says to switch to spartix only, i'll let you all know what happens with the sweetie...


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

*update*

Ok, update on this one.
I released this one too. And sorry i didnt update sooner, this one looked like he wouldnt make it, but he was a fighter. The canker cases i've had this year have been very severe, and wanted to update the spartix did the trick while the flagyl hasnt worked this year, while last year the flagyl always worked.
Ok, what happened with this guy was when the canker finally subsided, he had a huge gaping hole in the roof of his mouth, food kept getting in there, seed, and on day i was prodding the seed out and a huge embedded chunk of pus came out, and lots of blood with it, since it was in his mouth, i knew he would drown in his blood, so i held his head in a way that the blood ran out the side instead of to the back of throat, and it did clot, so i tube fed after that, and it healed after a few weeks, i assume the hole wouldnt of closed had that chunk of pus not come out.
I let him go with the baby and one other, he seemed VERY happy to be back out...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Great job, Moxie! It is quite true that sometimes Flagyl/Metronidazole will work and other times it won't. I've always had the best luck with Spartrix but have also used Ronidazole with decent success.

Terry


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