# Some bad news (Craigslist)



## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/1966443575.html


Bird Dog Trainers (Liberty, KY)

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Date: 2010-09-21, 6:29PM EDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]

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Pigeons for sale $3.00 each for your training needs. 
(606) 787-1926 


Location: Liberty, KY 
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests



PostingID: 1966443575


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

I can't even believe that he even leave his phone number there... I wonder if is something that we can do about it.. 

Ivette


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

this has been going on for years. The falconry guys do it too. There was just another post on here about this a couple days ago.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I called and they were all sold out..  The lady said that they had Fantails, West of England, etc... all sold for dog chow


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Ivor said:


> I can't even believe that he even leave his phone number there... I wonder if is something that we can do about it..
> 
> Ivette


Harass him would be one idea.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

arherp said:


> I called and they were all sold out..  The lady said that they had Fantails, West of England, etc... all sold for dog chow


what! chow? she said they kill and eat the birds? never heard of that before.. most trainers need to have live birds to use them..


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

A lot of the guys in my area use them for "fetch" with their labradors...
I sell chickens and I have even got calls from people wanting chicken chicks for this!!


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

Thank you Arherp for the information, it is really hard when I read about this, I can't understand how people can live with pigeons and not love them.

Ivette


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I know! You guys are *all* welcome to give them a call and let them know how you feel.... Just don't mention me


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

I'll give them a call, but I won't be home till about 7pm my time...hope that iisn't bothersome for them


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Each hobby is different and has pros and cons. For dog trainer, they might need some live bird to train their dogs. For falconer they might need birds for chow. Now I don't get how dog trainer ended up birds for chow unless the bird died during dog training and ended up as food (cooked I suppose).


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

If folks generally flag the hell out of the listing as prohibited, C'list will usually take it down. They don't really review it oftentimes; they just note that it has been getting tons of flags so they remove it. If you work off of two computers at different locations...flag it twice. Sometimes this can take a few days. I just flagged it.

If anyone in the vicinity wishes to take it further, they can always try contacting an Animal Care/Control dept., or a local Humane Society or SPCA. Also, if around, some animal advocacy groups which may have a chapter nearby.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

jeff houghton said:


> Harass him would be one idea.


Probably a good way to get on the wrong side of the law, too


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

arherp said:


> A lot of the guys in my area use them for "fetch" with their labradors...
> I sell chickens and I have even got calls from people wanting chicken chicks for this!!


you said dog chow, now fetch... which is it? that can be misleading....


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

And the bleeding hearts strike again!!! If any of you spent as much time researching as you do just flagging, you would find that MANY people that use pigeons to train dogs, have them in cages so the dog can't harm the birds at all. Also, if you knew anything about dogs, you would realize that when doing this, its for pointers/setters which do not harm the birds anyway, retrievers would be the one which could possibly harm a bird, and they are already shot when retrieving. They sell scented 'toys' for retrievers, I don't know of a person training retrievers with real/live birds. But again, lets just jump to conclusions...


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

By "fetch", I mean generally play around with the birds. When the dog is done playing, it typically will kill and eat the pigeon. Or, at least, that is how they do in my area.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Matt Bell said:


> And the bleeding hearts strike again!!! If any of you spent as much time researching as you do just flagging, you would find that MANY people that use pigeons to train dogs, have them in cages so the dog can't harm the birds at all. Also, if you knew anything about dogs, you would realize that when doing this, its for pointers/setters which do not harm the birds anyway, retrievers would be the one which could possibly harm a bird, and they are already shot when retrieving. They sell scented 'toys' for retrievers, I don't know of a person training retrievers with real/live birds. But again, lets just jump to conclusions...


Actually, several guys in my club have "bird dogs" (as they call them), and they shoot their unwanted pigeons "over" the dogs and let the dogs retrieve them. That is how they teach them to retrieve for use when they go hunting.

I have heard of some training their pointers and such, with birds in cages. But for the retrievers, the birds die, one way or another. Even if the shot misses, the bird comes home and has to go through it again, if it is a homer.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I am as conservative as they come. But truth is truth, whether it fits into my desires and lifestyle or not. I am against hunting for sport, but I am REALLY against using human bred, raised and imprinted birds for training. There are other ways to train bird dogs. Feathers can be used, dummy birds can be used, as well as birds in cages. Imagine how the pain must be, to be shot and injured, and then chewed on by a dog or pup.

Don't get me started.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Imagine the pain for a human raised cow, shot up with growth hormones and then shipped to the packing plant to be literally hit in the head and then skinned and processed...but we all like our steak! Honestly to each his own, but this is almost as bad as PETA going after Mike Tyson and the TV station for doing the series on him racing pigeons.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Exact reason why I am vegetarian..


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> Imagine the pain for a human raised cow, shot up with growth hormones and then shipped to the packing plant to be literally hit in the head and then skinned and processed...but we all like our steak!.


Is the use of growth hormones still legal in the states ?
Its been banned in the EU since 1988


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Matt Bell said:


> And the bleeding hearts strike again!!! If any of you spent as much time researching as you do just flagging, you would find that MANY people that use pigeons to train dogs, have them in cages so the dog can't harm the birds at all. Also, if you knew anything about dogs, you would realize that when doing this, its for pointers/setters which do not harm the birds anyway, retrievers would be the one which could possibly harm a bird, and they are already shot when retrieving. They sell scented 'toys' for retrievers, I don't know of a person training retrievers with real/live birds. But again, lets just jump to conclusions...


And if YOU knew anything about dogs and bird hunting, you'd know everything you wrote is BS!
I'm not a bleeding heart either......But I am against hunting for "sport", and using and torturing live birds.
One of the largest Golden Retriever Clubs in Mass that has field training classes uses "frozen" pigeons and ducks for training. They order the number of birds they want, they are gassed, frozen and shipped out!!!


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

The meat is horrible in America! The ground beef and chicken has chlorine mixed in to kill all of the disease. The chicken is actually re-flavored to get the chlorine taste out. The chlorine is mixed in to the cattle meat to kill off E. Coli.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

arherp said:


> The meat is horrible in America! The ground beef and chicken has chlorine mixed in to kill all of the disease. The chicken is actually re-flavored to get the chlorine taste out. The chlorine is mixed in to the cattle meat to kill off E. Coli.


Ah, the history of McDonalds....
Old MacDonald Had a farm E I E COLI


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

arherp said:


> Exact reason why I am vegetarian..


Not the "exact" reason I also am a vegetarian. But close enough.

Someone "painting" all bird dog trainers with a broad brush might be wrong. But it is also wrong to paint all of "us" as loving our steaks.

I am a vegetarian for a combination of several reasons. One being health. Another and the most prssing reason, is the cruelty that man does to animals.

I don't condem those that eat meat. I condem those that do it the economical (and thus more cruel) way. Ever see how chickens on an egg famr, live? Ever see how a cow with a broken leg is taken into the slaughter house (because they have to be alive when they go through the door, to meed FDA regulations)? They are pushed with a fork lift or plow. Tumbling over and over on concrete. With a broken leg or three. The they are slaughtered.

Yea. It sucks to be an animal. What would we do if all of the animals could suddenly converse with us in our language? If unknown to us until now, that they pray to a God? Would we continue our ways? I think yes.

That says a lot about us.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> And if YOU knew anything about dogs and bird hunting, you'd know everything you wrote is BS!
> I'm not a bleeding heart either......But I am against hunting for "sport", and using and torturing live birds.
> One of the largest Golden Retriever Clubs in Mass that has field training classes uses "frozen" pigeons and ducks for training. They order the number of birds they want, they are gassed, frozen and shipped out!!!


Its not bs because I do it that way, and all the people I learned from do it that way. How is what the Retriever club does any different than you going down to the supermarket and buying a frozen chicken, or the frozen turkey with thanksgiving coming up?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> Its not bs because I do it that way, and all the people I learned from do it that way. How is what the Retriever club does any different than you going down to the supermarket and buying a frozen chicken, or the frozen turkey with thanksgiving coming up?


Its totally different because the turkey or chicken was bred for food which in general, if youre not a vegetarian, is one of the necessities in life, whereas the pigeons are killed for something which you, and others like you, call a SPORT and do for a sense of youre ENJOYMENT.

If you always do what you have always done, you will always get the same answers from those who believe differently


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Matt Bell said:


> Its not bs because I do it that way, and all the people I learned from do it that way. How is what the Retriever club does any different than you going down to the supermarket and buying a frozen chicken, or the frozen turkey with thanksgiving coming up?


The difference is that those pigeons and ducks are killed 'on demand' for _nothing but a "pleasure sport_"!
AGAIN....I'm not against hunting "for FOOD", I'm against Torture and Needless Death. And training dogs with birds is torture, needless death and NOT a necessity in life to survive.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> you said dog chow, now fetch... which is it? that can be misleading....


I was reading the posts on a hunting dog forum a couple of weeks ago, and some of them don't kill the birds, but many of them were talking about shooting the birds when they were up in the air. They were killing them.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Personally I consider hunting a much more humane way for me to garner the meat products which I consume. Much more humane than how they keep chickens on farms, much more humane than how they raise calves for veal, much more humane than how farm animals are pumped with GH in order to be bigger. But we each have our opinions, to each his own.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Matt, you have a point in a certain way. About how food animals are treated versus how wild animals are hunted. I see that.

However, I am against both. I'm a weirdo I guess. 

An acquaintance of mine recently west "out west" on a hunt for Elk. He got a female, although he wanted a male, for the rack.

But the point of me recounting this, is that this guy made it a point to tell "us" that he figures he has about $50.00 a pound in the meat he brought home.

Now, that is not hunting for food for the family. If it is, it is very inneficient. This particular guy hunts everyday he can. From squirrel to elk, and everything in between. He lives to hunt. He and his family could not possibly eat all of that, as he is considered the best hunter in these parts. The other hunters here envy him.

On another note. Our local gas station/restaurant, has a bulletin board where pictures of dear kills are posted by the locals. It makes me sick when I see all of the pics of dead dear on the beds of pick-up trucks and someone is holding up the head and rack and smiling real big. Many of them are kids in the age range of 10 to 14. It is a big thrill to them. The bigger the rack, the bigger the smile. It matters not the amount of meat. It is all about the size of the trophy rack, and the pic.

I truly do not believe that more than 5% of hunters in this country, do it for food. That is a secondary benefit at best. It is all about the sport, bragging rights, trophy and adventure.

But.... It's a free country. What ya gonna do?

It sucks to be an animal in these here parts. for sure.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If you kill it your supposed to eat it... That is what my Dad taught me and I still believe it... so after they buy the pigeon, train the dog, shoot the pigeon... they need to eat it for supper.... That is IF they are not a Vegetarian.... now that would be a problem... but do not think too many/any vegans are hunters... still have a feeling eating the pigeon would not make it ok to most people....so there is no end to this topic...


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## 4nursebee (May 27, 2009)

I have not been to this site in a while. Could you pass me some stones, I'd like to throw some also...


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