# Blocked crop



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I picked up this baby with severe canker. I cannot say where is located the canker but the mouth was horribly smelling and was pus, partly bloody, inside mouth and on the beak.

When I inserted the tube in her crop to feed him and gave medicines, the tube came out with something reddish at the tip, from what collected on the bottom of the crop.

I gave her metronidazole, injectable and oral before feeding and then, after feeding, Nystatin. I cannot say if the oral medicines were absorbed into body. The injectable metro was around 7 mg. Unfortunately, the food may not let the nystatin reach the bottom of the crop, though I made a solution of water and tablet powder.

I feeded him defrosted peas made a paste. If is candida or canker blocking the crop, itmay simply be the fact even such soft food is too hard for her condition.

She passes some small, mostly (yellow) urates droppings with a smaller feces of brown color, maybe because of blood.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Andreas, 

The blood in the crop sounds like some kind of impaction...maybe caused by the canker do you think?. Crops heal up fast luckily, but whether it can still pass food is a problem. I have used warmed applesauce to feed very sick pigeons with crop problems, it sometimes helped, other times the crop wouldn't move again. I think the nystatin and metro were the right drugs to start her on.

Do you have anything like amoxicillin to give with the nystatin and canker med?
I only mention it because I had a pigeon with a torn crop from a hawk attack, with canker. She made it, and amoxicillin was the antibiotic I used. I used it because it is good for soft tissue infection.

Hugs to you, sour crop is very hard to deal with.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you for idea of using antibiotic. I gave right now Lincospectin, as an oral antibiotic I don't think can reach the proventriculus.

Is possible for apple sauce to favorize candida? What other kind of food I can use?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Baby applesauce would be better without all the sugar and all. Mix with a bit of warm water and feed that. Looks like canker. I would do Metro and Baytril. And of course Nystatin because of the Baytril.
If you don't want to use applesauce, add a few drops of ACV to whatever you do feed. Applesauce usually helps the crop to move.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is no doubt is canker, the smell, the feathers missing under beak, the pus. For moment, it seems the canker stepped back but it can attack back anytime, stronger.

She also seemed comforted after injection with Lincospectin which makes me think she has some associated bacterial problems, maybe an infection following internal canker-caused lesions.

The problem is she doesn't pass droppings, though I feeded her. Do you think is smart to fill her crop with some food to have it over night?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

For me, I would feel more comfortable focusing on re-hydration with water and the applesauce (if you have any), and see how her droppings are in the morning. Feeding more when the crop isn't moving is usually not good. 

When the canker/yeast and bacteria has eased up over night from the medicine you gave, the crop will have better chance at working.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree with Bella. Would go with the applesauce for now, and wait till the crop starts moving. Adding new food to old food will only cause problems, and it will just ferment in the crop.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That was good suggestion with the baby food applesauce. I'm going to get some of that to have it on hand, thanks.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

There are some non-stop shops around but I doubt they have apple sauce, even less baby apple sauce. I think I have to wait up to 8 AM (now is 2 AM) for some supermarket to open.

Thankfully, she passed a real dropping few minutes back. I think she needs hydration (she is scary dehydrated) but she doesn't drink on her own (water has a hard time reaching the crop) and is reluctant for me using a tube and the tuibe doesn't slip inside because the mucosa of throat is dried.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You oil the tube or wet it with water. I use olive oil.
And applesauce is easy to make. Just peel the apples and core them. Cut them up and cook with just a dash of water in the bottom of the pan. Cook till soft and let it cool. Doesn't take long.

Yea, I keep formula in the freezer with peas, and jars of baby applesauce in the bird cupboard, along with baby food peas, corn, and carrots. LOL.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

You're very well prepared Jay, that's a great collection of food.

Andreas, Often dipping the sick pigeon's beak into a cup of water will make them drink. The first time might scare them, but usually on the second or third try they will realize that its water and they will drink. Keep trying, she will be thirsty and want a drink badly.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS be very careful with the crop needle, friend had a pigeon to the vet, with canker and when they did a crop wash and the bird bled to death because they ripped a canker nodule. I instructed her a second time to NOT go and they vet did the same thing to another bird. Brought the bird back to her bleeding out the mouth in time to die in her hands. She has never gone back since. Maybe better with just peas for feed after she is hydrated, medicated and kept warm, she looks miserable, is there an updated better pic?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> You oil the tube or wet it with water. I use olive oil.


I use my own saliva. Oil I noticed it accumulates in crop during multiple uses and if crop has problem, the oil gets rancid, with a very bad taste and smell. Saliva is like K-Jelly, is water soluble and very slippery.




> And applesauce is easy to make. Just peel the apples and core them. Cut them up and cook with just a dash of water in the bottom of the pan. Cook till soft and let it cool. Doesn't take long.


I think I will refrain from using anything sweet, in the end. I will stick with the peas past.



Bella_F said:


> Andreas, Often dipping the sick pigeon's beak into a cup of water will make them drink. The first time might scare them, but usually on the second or third try they will realize that its water and they will drink. Keep trying, she will be thirsty and want a drink badly.


Yesterday she drank a little by her own, from cup and apparently water doesn't travel well her throat, it came back up in the mouth and distressed her. This is why she don't want to drink, I have to give water by tube.



CBL said:


> AndreiS be very careful with the crop needle, friend had a pigeon to the vet, with canker and when they did a crop wash and the bird bled to death because they ripped a canker nodule. I instructed her a second time to NOT go and they vet did the same thing to another bird. Brought the bird back to her bleeding out the mouth in time to die in her hands. She has never gone back since. Maybe better with just peas for feed after she is hydrated, medicated and kept warm, she looks miserable, is there an updated better pic?


I know, I never forcee, rather let the tube slip inside and if is not sliping, I renounce temporary.

This morning, as I supposed, canker was back, pus in mouth and the cracking noise that other pigeons hosted in the warmed place has manifested. Is some germ in environment or maybe a condition that makes canker proliferate in the sinus. I gave her water with metro, I will give ronidazole and perhaps some more metro in the afternoon / night. She also got some peas past, juste a little, and will get more later (several meals of small amount of food).

This morning, apparently a little more relaxed:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> I use my own saliva. Oil I noticed it accumulates in crop during multiple uses and if crop has problem, the oil gets rancid, with a very bad taste and smell. Saliva is like K-Jelly, is water soluble and very slippery.
> 
> By doing that, you are introducing many germs and bacteria to the bird that are harmful. Do you not understand about the amount of bacteria in the human mouth? Don't use old rancid olive oil. Use fresh and keep it in the refrigerator. That's a lot safer than human saliva.
> 
> ...


......................................


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Ok, I will buy some baby applesauce and use olive oil.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I tried to gave him applesauce, but there seem to be a blockage at the entrance of the crop, I mean, between esophagusd and crop. I can't pass with the tube beyond this blockage (as I don't want to force at all) and liquid food also seems to not pass, or pass just little and it remain there and perhaps go up into trachea.

Now it breaths open mouthed and bobs the tail but I don't know if is because aspirated water or because of sinus problems, because also makes sinus gurgling sounds like the previous pigeon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If it doesn't go in easily, then you take out the tube and gently try again. If it still doesn't go all the way in, then you don't release any food or liquids, as they won't be going in far enough, and can too easily aspirate. Sounds like that is what you did.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Now the sinus sound (temporary) stopped and so did the open-mouth, so hopefully (because is less serious than aspiration) it was the sinus problem. 


She had periods during day when the crop was blocked, probably by candida, and after much water with vinegar and Nystatin she started to pass some droppings with feces, then again blocked crop and so. She has some energy, she even flyes few meters.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about all the problems with the blockage. 

I noticed that you gave 7mg in jection of metro the first day, was that all it recieved in total, or did you continue that? 7mg seems very low dose for severe canker, but maybe it is different concentration. And did it receive antibiotics just once also? 

If there is an impacted canker nodule there blocking entrance to the crop, I think very thin liquids for food/rehydration via syringe and medicines are the only chance. It can live without food much longer than it can live without liquids. Most importantly, it needs water .


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

As I stated, I also gave oral metronidazol, plus roonidazol. Overall, he received the amount of a medium size pigeon - 50 mg, but he is around 150 gr.


I noticed that if I put the food in the esophagus, is absorbed into crop. He made over night some small dried droppings and now in the morning a bigger and wetter one, from the applesauce. It seems the applesauce works fine.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the update Andreas. So you think enough of the oral canker medicine got through past the blockage now? I'm happy to hear that. 

If it were me, I would be continuing to use the canker med and an antibiotic (with nystatin) to give the best chance to reduce inflammation around the blockage. It does sound to me like an impacted canker nodule, which can take the body weeks to heal completely. You never know for sure but its a good idea to treat it. I am hoping that the medicine, if used aggressively, will reduce the blockage enough for you to tube feed.

I do agree with what you said about possible virus. Mostly I find wild birds to have very hardy immune systems from generations of exposure combined with natural selection. But they struggle with not having enough good food and too much exposure to too much illness when young. 

I hope the best for this one and I admire your effort to help.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

It was not herpes virus as I said, but canker. I removed one of those yellow growths and bleed a little. After medicating this morning - 10 mg injectable metronidazole and some ronidazole - the yellow growths cleared out but reapeared two hours later. This is because the ronidazole that I administered orally takes longer to get into blood, travelling all the digestive system. Or perhaps ronidazole is not a strong enough drug? I'm reluctant of giving too much metro by injection as it damages the tissues because is a low-concentrated solution, 5 mg / ml.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

The vet advice I follow says any plaques on front part of the tongue or beak is not canker, it cannot survive there. Deep in the throat and in the body, it survives well.

Ronidazole is good in my experiences, I can get it more easily that metro and I've not had problems clearing canker with it so far. Just remember if there is something hidden, like a virus, it will take more time for antibiotics or canker medicine to work. 

I am not sure about the crop blockage or if it is interfering with medicine absorption. Sometimes they already have matter in the intestines, and that's is all they pass. Can you feel if the crop is puffy and full or is it emptying?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The crop functions well by now but the problem is the esophagus. There is something not leting the tube enter the crop and with each administration of water or food (I do this often) the tube can enter less and less, perhaps because the food I left there or the olive oil that accumulated and dried (I stopped using it by now). Also, the last times, when I pulled the tube out, there was blood on its tip, though I didn't forced it to enter.

Now she passed a big poop and when I smelled, I realised has coccidiosis as well. Is smart to treat for this? If left untreated too long, coccidiosis will become very resistent.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

When checked her this afternoon, the mouth was covered in white stuff. Could be herpes virus, but more probably candida. Candida may also be the explanation for the blocking of the esophagus: on the bottom of the crop, because of much nystatin and acv, candida couldn't stay but on the upper part of the crop it developed, helped by the applesauce as well. I don't know how I could been such naive to think a sweet thing (applesauce IS sweet) won't help candida increase.

Btw, I gave her Lysine (an aminoacid containing product) and she shacked her tail, which is a sign she liked it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't even be sure of what the bird has. You keep jumping from one thing to another and hitting her with different meds. You are assuming that applesauce caused Candid, or made it worse. Many others have used it and not had that problem. It would be good if you could get the bird checked, rather than just assuming you know what it is.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

If there's more yeast, its likely to be the two antibiotics that caused it especially at the very high dose. However sick birds need antibiotics, so thats why Nilstat is used during treatment. In very sick birds with crop issues, I usually give 0.5ml before feeding, and also around an hour after administering antibiotics. It needs to be kept up for a week or more, its not a one off treatment. 

Also I'm not following how applesauce got to the crop and not Nystatin? I would think the thinner liquid would have no problems getting through if food is getting there.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Any idea for an as high nutritious as possible liquid food? I mean, *not sweet*. 

I thought for making some sort of soy soup but from an older thread, apparently soy is not good as interferes with digestion processes.

Is *an urgent situation*. I wait your advices.





Bella_F said:


> Also I'm not following how applesauce got to the crop and not Nystatin? I would think the thinner liquid would have no problems getting through if food is getting there.


They both got into the crop. I assumed candida developed in the sector of esophagus as in crop was nystatin and acv.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Most Bird rearing formulas are egg powder mixed with cereal products , the worse ones only use custard powder instead of real egg powder. The good ones use real egg powder.

I have used a mix of weetbix cereal and egg powder(from the supermarket) for feeding babies, with extras like probiotic.

If there is severe yeast infection, formula could make it worse. If I had to give formula to save a life, I would add Nystatin and yogurt, and use a thermometer to make sure its served at the exact right temperature.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

There is no Kaytee in shops here. I was making my own variant, from grinded seeds but as you say, it helps candida.

I thought for the water of some boiled peas or other from bean family, which is less sweet.

And a question to CLB: she also has some sort of white thing growing directly on cornea, do you know what can be?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

To me the boiled water doesn't sound like it would have enough calories for the bird to survive. If you are fairly certain about the yeast infection, it would need aggressive medical treatment, rather than withholding food. 

I don't see anything wrong with your pea paste idea, this is a nutritious food for sick pigeons. Any reason you don't want to give it?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I can't give pea past anymore because the esophagus became very narrow, can't pass the tube through it.

After writing the previous message, I realised how simple the solution is: from a pigeon seed mix, I will select only the peas (there are several sortiments, green, white, red, yellow), grind them and make a sort of pea-only "Kaytee", a very diluted formula.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Just wanted to add that applesauce is only recommended to get the crop working again when it is slow or stopped, it is not a substitute for food.

Do you know how to use a regular syringe to feed instead of the tube direct into the crop?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I use a regular syringe having attached an aspiration catheter.


Just wanted to mention that thr pea-only liquid food proved very good.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Sounds good, just watch that the calories are enough. But great that you got it down!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> The vet advice I follow says any plaques on front part of the tongue or beak is not canker, it cannot survive there. Deep in the throat and in the body, it survives well.
> 
> Your vet is wrong. Canker can most surely survive there. Many have had a pigeon with canker that lost a good part of the beak to the canker, which was inside and outside the beak and just ate it up.
> 
> I am not sure about the crop blockage or if it is interfering with medicine absorption. Sometimes they already have matter in the intestines, and that's is all they pass. Can you feel if the crop is puffy and full or is it emptying?


................................


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't know Jay, Dr Collin walker is usually right about most things regarding Pigeon medicine. This is what he has to say in his exact words:


*Yellow plaques on the tongue or throat are either a viral vesicle (Circo, Herpes, Pox) or trichomonad ulcer. As a general rule, if a line is drawn through the base of the beak, a yellow plaque in front of this will be viral and behind it will be canker. Trichomonads are fragile organisms and the environment from the base of the beak forward is too hostile for them. *

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/Visible_Indicators_of_Health.html

What I have noticed myself in my birds with damage to beak from canker (like extreme scissor beak and partial beak loss) and damaged sinus cavities, is much of the damage occurs when the body is expressing the canker mass after it is inactive. I've personally seen it take longer than a month to vacate a dead mass from a sinus cavity, and it took out bony structures with it. My hen with scissor beak and partial beak loss had the inactive canker mass expressed through the side of her face, and it collapsed part of it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Bella_F said:


> Sounds good, just watch that the calories are enough. But great that you got it down!


I'm surprised at the amount of solid droppings she passes from liquid food. Is true I'm feeding her every two hours, but the liquid is thin almost like water. Maybe it just washes out the older (pea past) food from crop. After giving up to five different medicines / day, including strong medicines (metronidazole, lincospectin, amprolium, nystatin, fluconazole), she seems surprinsingly unaffected and with all dehydration and emaciation, she has some energy. This is almost miraculous and may only be explained with the psychological support I gave her.



Jay3 said:


> Your vet is wrong. Canker can most surely survive there. Many have had a pigeon with canker that lost a good part of the beak to the canker, which was inside and outside the beak and just ate it up.


I'm not sure what these formations are, they corespond mostly to that webpage about herpes virus but candida or canker may also be explained, or may be two conqurent diseases. They were yellow, white and now are mostly dirty white or a light shade of gray. They disappeared after fluconazole administration and if I'm not wrong, after a canker administration as well, but perhaps this only because the virus was affected by these medicines. Some of them can easily be removed, other live irritated mouth mucosa, almost bleeding.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Good news, the esophagus got deblocked and now I can introduce the tube down to the bottom of the crop. The bird got a good, full-sized meal and will get more.

I have a question for another case, a young adult with a severe canker and perhaps candida, some white stuff in mouth and the crop seem blocked. Can someone tell me how much it takes to a medicine to travel the gissard and bowel and reach the blood system? I have given oral metronidazole and I'm planning to supplement with some injectable metro, for more efficiency.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> I'm surprised at the amount of solid droppings she passes from liquid food. Is true I'm feeding her every two hours, but the liquid is thin almost like water. Maybe it just washes out the older (pea past) food from crop. After giving up to five different medicines / day, including strong medicines (metronidazole, lincospectin, amprolium, nystatin, fluconazole), she seems surprinsingly unaffected and with all dehydration and emaciation, she has some energy. This is almost miraculous and may only be explained with the psychological support I gave her.


You've done so well, you must feel so tired with having given so much intensive care lately (and more to come). I hope there is someone in your life who gives you a lot of love, you deserve it.

Regarding the droppings, yes it does sound like you've successfully unblocked her and the droppings may include waste from slightly older matter in the intestines and crop. 

And with very emaciated birds, sometimes very little is best for them in the beginning, because they do not have the reserves to digest complex rich food. I'm impressed by your success with the pea formula and medicine (good call on the fluconazole), and that now you can feed normally. Brilliant work Andreas!


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Bella_F said:


> You've done so well, you must feel so tired with having given so much intensive care lately (and more to come). I hope there is someone in your life who gives you a lot of love, you deserve it.


Because of pigeons, I didn't sleep in last months more than 2 hours / night (or in the morning). Last night I didn't touch the bed at all (this happens 2-3 days / week), just fallen asleep on chair.

The esophagus got blocked again, it seems the pea-only (grinded dried peas mixed with water) formula was causing candida as well so from now on (to this and other immunodepressed birds) I will be giving only defrosted peas made past. Now is again deblocked. One of her poping has some foam. Does anybody know what foam means in droppings?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS said:


> There is no Kaytee in shops here. I was making my own variant, from grinded seeds but as you say, it helps candida.
> 
> I thought for the water of some boiled peas or other from bean family, which is less sweet.
> 
> And a question to CLB: she also has some sort of white thing growing directly on cornea, do you know what can be?



That does not look good at all, could be an ulcer, you cannot put any drops in eye if u dont know what it is because if it is a specific thing the meds drop will CAUSE an ulser and blind the bird and it will be painful. I would say take to vet for diagnosis. I have not read any of this entire thread, will have to go back to get history, I got ur pm but the link did not open pic....will reply when I read thread...


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS said:


> It was not herpes virus as I said, but canker. I removed one of those yellow growths and bleed a little. After medicating this morning - 10 mg injectable metronidazole and some ronidazole - the yellow growths cleared out but reapeared two hours later. This is because the ronidazole that I administered orally takes longer to get into blood, travelling all the digestive system. Or perhaps ronidazole is not a strong enough drug? I'm reluctant of giving too much metro by injection as it damages the tissues because is a low-concentrated solution, 5 mg / ml.


NEVER remove a canker growth it WILL bleed and cause death, u were lucky, also SALIVA is not good, u risk giving her more and different infection. The needle and oil will not become rancid if you WASH them every time you use it. That is what u are supposed to be doing, with HOT soap and water and a bit of bleach. Never put the same crop needle back into her mouth or you can be REINTRODUCING the canker protozoa everytime you feed her and that is why she wont get better, u keep FEEDING her canker back. So please dis infect your tools each and EVERY time you feed or medicate her.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS said:


> I'm surprised at the amount of solid droppings she passes from liquid food. Is true I'm feeding her every two hours, but the liquid is thin almost like water. Maybe it just washes out the older (pea past) food from crop. After giving up to five different medicines / day, including strong medicines (metronidazole, lincospectin, amprolium, nystatin, fluconazole), she seems surprinsingly unaffected and with all dehydration and emaciation, she has some energy. This is almost miraculous and may only be explained with the psychological support I gave her.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what these formations are, they corespond mostly to that webpage about herpes virus but candida or canker may also be explained, or may be two conqurent diseases. They were yellow, white and now are mostly dirty white or a light shade of gray. They disappeared after fluconazole administration and if I'm not wrong, after a canker administration as well, but perhaps this only because the virus was affected by these medicines. Some of them can easily be removed, other live irritated mouth mucosa, almost bleeding.


Wow that is a TON of meds, what are u doing for her poor liver?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

AndreiS said:


> Because of pigeons, I didn't sleep in last months more than 2 hours / night (or in the morning). Last night I didn't touch the bed at all (this happens 2-3 days / week), just fallen asleep on chair.
> 
> The esophagus got blocked again, it seems the pea-only (grinded dried peas mixed with water) formula was causing candida as well so from now on (to this and other immunodepressed birds) I will be giving only defrosted peas made past. Now is again deblocked. One of her poping has some foam. Does anybody know what foam means in droppings?


Can you post a pic of the poop, by the way PEAS have natural sugars, so a pea only diet is not good, do u have sunflower seeds and other hulled seeds u can grind and liquify, or even a bird formula, u say not in your town or stores? If not buy online like u do meds. Get ANY bird formula and they do sell pigeons formula too alled Squab formula, google it, cant remeber the company name tho... let me check my freezer.....

Ok its from Roudybush Squab diet. Send me email and I can show you picture of package or just google it it is a 1lb bag @ 20 bucks plus shipping, for all the birds you have and rescue u need to have this on hand. You can also buy...hang on, back to freezer....Lafebers Nutristart baby bird formula in a small tub 312 gram it is for critical care. Please google that too and have some on hand. 

When birds are in this rough shape, they need actually more liquid than food to hydrate, so that is a good thing, but u are better off getting proper formula with the proper proteins, carbs and sugars or you will be dealing with meds to chase what you are causing, like candida and too much sugars. 

I have seen gas bubble in poop and this indicates infection and digestive upset according to Dr. Walker book. Will all the meds, give her PROBIOTICS in her food every time u feed her. Good luck.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

CBL said:


> So please dis infect your tools each and EVERY time you feed or medicate her.


I use the same tools at all sick pigeons but I thoroughly wash them after each use with dishwashing liquid.




> If not buy online like u do meds.
> 
> ...
> Ok its from Roudybush Squab diet. Send me email and I can show you picture of package or just google it it is a 1lb bag @ 20 bucks plus shipping, for all the birds you have and rescue u need to have this on hand.


Is too expensive. I only once bought a single pill online.




> I have seen gas bubble in poop and this indicates infection and digestive upset according to Dr. Walker book. Will all the meds, give her PROBIOTICS in her food every time u feed her. Good luck.


I later recalled I have read somewhere that foamy droppings means kidney stress.
Now is is better, explores the house, stay at the window, fly around etc.

The other one too apparently is better, but her mouth worries me. There is some white grouth on the respiratory vent and other parts of the mouth. I made a movie with her mouth:



*https://www.youtube.com/embed/bRldKDCkhCA*



It was not cleared with all the huge amount of Fluconazole so hopefully is not candida (though the aspect most likely direct to this fungus). I hope they are some dead canker colonies. Possible to be pox?





Btw, to not create another thread, have any idea what this kind of droppings may be caused by? I have seen many such droppings at feral pigeons outside. Mine, are from two ~ 13 days old babies. It didn't respond to Coccistop but responded to Amoxicllin, returning to a better state after two days treatment. After a day pause, they returned to this worse aspect. May be a bacterial problem but I also am thinking at other kind of pathogen, that was only temporary disturbed by antibiotic.:


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Regarding the brown poops, I had a bad case of that in one nest box early this year. The droppings were brown like in the photo- smelly,loose diahorrea which had never happened before in my own coup. Both babies left the nest looking pretty good, but both died within 3 weeks.

When the babies were in the nest, I first tried a general sulfa trim antibiotic that addresses cocci and bacterial infection. It seemed to help and I changed the nest material every day. When they had grown feathers, I treated with amprolium, and later wormed them. 

I only had sulfa trim for bacteria, and although it slowed the disease, they still worsened and died. Normally what I would have done is swapped the antibiotic to Ciprofloxacin (Baytril) to treat for salmonella, but I can't import this to Australia any more and my online orders have been held in customs. 

So basically I treated for cocci, worms, e-coli, and strep/staph type bacterial infections. But the one treatment I was not able to give was for Salmonella. I felt at the end when they both died, that it was most likely a salmonella problem. I'm still not sure what to do about not having access to cipro any more.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Andrei, you cannot use meds for two days then stop, you will for sure create resistant bacteria. If you note the droppings are better when on for two days keep them on for the full duration of 7 to 10 and even 14, but not 2.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Bella_F said:


> Regarding the brown poops, I had a bad case of that in one nest box early this year. The droppings were brown like in the photo- smelly,loose diahorrea which had never happened before in my own coup. Both babies left the nest looking pretty good, but both died within 3 weeks.
> 
> When the babies were in the nest, I first tried a general sulfa trim antibiotic that addresses cocci and bacterial infection. It seemed to help and I changed the nest material every day. When they had grown feathers, I treated with amprolium, and later wormed them.
> 
> ...


Bella cruise the Foys site, Im sure there are other meds like amoxicilian that treats salmonella. If you download their online catalogue, you will see which drugs they use for it, there are many.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

CBL said:


> Bella cruise the Foys site, Im sure there are other meds like amoxicilian that treats salmonella. If you download their online catalogue, you will see which drugs they use for it, there are many.


Good call. I'm out of amoxicillin too, but it didn't successfully treat salmonella in this flock previously. Cipro was particularly good for it, possibly due to the strain. I had more meds coming, but customs took my order, which I hadn't been expecting. Not sure if it was a one off thing or if how its going to be from now on. 

My vet posts out doxy and sulfa-trim, plus anything for canker, worms or cocci when i need it. But amoxicillin and Baytril, he needs to see each bird individually and sometimes I don't have the money for his consultation fees. Its usually a $500 visit, mainly travel and consult fees, but the meds are very expensive too. The worst part is he is not particularly experienced with birds, probably most of the member of pigeon biz know more about pigeon medicine. Its Frustrating stuff!


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

CBL said:


> Andrei, you cannot use meds for two days then stop, you will for sure create resistant bacteria. If you note the droppings are better when on for two days keep them on for the full duration of 7 to 10 and even 14, but not 2.


I acted like this having in mind previous experiences with babies and adults having aqueous, at times bloody droppings. The disease was cleared after 1-2 days, ocassionaly returning in a week. Now al those birds have passed over the problem.

The two babies responded well to the last evening treatment amoxicillin, today droppings were more firm and not bloody anymore.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Got and answer for you, its an EYE WORM, here is what buddy said to use....you can get it online at Foys or other pigeon supply.

Good morning,

I think what you have is a bird going blind because of a worm in the
eyeball. You most likely will not save the eye, but Avioworm will most
likely get rid of the worm.
Jerry


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you CBL.

As I answered you privately, at vet recommendation (he saw the pigeon) I started using an ophtalmologic antibiotic treatment, an ointment with oxitetracycline which immediately calmed their pain and made them stop keeping the eye closed.

I will also look for a deworming treatment.

Beside the eye problem, the sick pigeons ae going well, one eats already on her own and the other has still has some esophagus blockage.


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## Johanna 32 (9 mo ago)

Jay3 said:


> I agree with Bella. Would go with the applesauce for now, and wait till the crop starts moving. Adding new food to old food will only cause problems, and it will just ferment in the crop.


I’m worry about a baby pigeon my cat found outside the house his crop is big now I’m giving him applesauce and olive oil to help him I read that’s good for him. I just start doing that any other advice that someone can help me I don’t want the baby pigeon to die


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

What are you feeding the baby? He will need antibiotics as cat saliva is deadly for birds.


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## Johanna 32 (9 mo ago)

Marina B said:


> What are you feeding the baby? He will need antibiotics as cat saliva is deadly for birds.


Thanks he passed away 😥😭I was feeding him Kaytee exact formula.My cat didn’t got him because I picked up before my cat get it.


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