# 2010 Racing pigeons - You pay shipping



## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

When I was making my move to Florida I sold and loaned some breeders to Tony Hefner. He is not racing this year and has 14 young birds from my stock that he wants to find new homes for. Some of them are a few monthes old now but none of them have been let out to fly so you may be able to settle them. They are not banded with AU or IF bands. He told me the bands were IPBB bands.

Tony is in Michigan. He said he will meet you half way if you are in Michigan or will ship if you pay the shipping.

He is hoping to help out a new flyer or two with these birds.

PM me if you are interested and I will pass your info on to him.

Ace/Mark


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## breeder (Jul 24, 2008)

how much are you selling the birds???


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

breeder said:


> how much are you selling the birds???


The birds are free but you would have to pay the shipping.


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## blackknight01 (Feb 20, 2010)

ace can you get any pictures of the pigeons?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

For those of you guys who want to get ahead of the game without much investment, this is how. These are some very good birds. Just be patient and resourceful and deals like this one come along. You do not need to empty the pocket book to get a decent colony of birds. 

I see too often Junk get the money spent. But in my opinion, This is the way young poopie ones. The potential these birds has is outstanding.


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## windycityflyers (Apr 26, 2010)

I can take them !


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

I would like some for my brother. He wants to get into racing and these birds would be perfect for him. Do you have pics?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry to those of you that showed interest in these birds and did not get some. 

They are all spoken for now. They went to three diferent flyers, two of them from PT.

Mark/Ace


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi all,

Tony has 12 young birds to find homes for. He had a few people back out on the birds because they are not banded with racing bands. These birds are banded with IPB B bands. They can not be raced but will make some good starter birds for a new flyer.

You can PM Tony here, his pigeon talk handle is *CABIN LOFT*

Ace


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

jAxTecH said:


> Are you talking about the blue bar young birds that are off of hen #5406 or* his long distance grizzles*?


They are his grizzles


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2010)

pics never hurt


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I made the mistake of buying 4 ybs a hen and a cock from Mark Raymond 3-4 weeks ago. Today this bright star sends me a pm saying he is missing a hen and that I stole it. First off, Isn't he in his loft everyday with his birds? It took him 3 weeks to notice a bird missing? Second, I never went into his loft..he said he was worried about "cross contamination" Third he boxed the birds I bought and recorded their band numbers and finally I ain't a thief. My fiancé's brother is a Jesus freak and a deacon to a church. I am posting this so everyone knows what kind of games this guy plays. I find it hard to believe as small as his loft is he would'nt notice a bird missing. Seeing as everything he says he has is "his best". I'm not only angry at this ******* drama but I will re-home the birds I bought from him. I don't want his stuff in my loft.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> I made the mistake of buying 4 ybs a hen and a cock from Mark Raymond 3-4 weeks ago. Today this bright star sends me a pm saying he is missing a hen and that I stole it. First off, Isn't he in his loft everyday with his birds? It took him 3 weeks to notice a bird missing? Second, I never went into his loft..he said he was worried about "cross contamination" Third he boxed the birds I bought and recorded their band numbers and finally I ain't a thief. My fiancé's brother is a Jesus freak and a deacon to a church. I am posting this so everyone knows what kind of games this guy plays. I find it hard to believe as small as his loft is he would'nt notice a bird missing. Seeing as everything he says he has is "his best". I'm not only angry at this ******* drama but I will re-home the birds I bought from him. I don't want his stuff in my loft.


Im not sure I get this ? how would he know you stole a bird from him if hes never been to your loft ?


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> Im not sure I get this ? how would he know you stole a bird from him if hes never been to your loft ?


He said he has never lost a bird before so I stole it..he walked me to the car..where the f#$% was I going to hide a bird? Plus I thought he was good guy but now I see he is a paranoid crackhead that can't keep track of his inventory.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well that is depressing  I bought a breeding pair from him with no problems. I like the birds a lot. It isn't nice to accuse someone of stealing stuff with no proof though


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

" My fiancé's brother is a Jesus freak and a deacon to a church."

This statement strikes me as funny. What on earth does it mean? That you are "connected" with a religious person and therefore you "must" be an honest person? Too funny a statement for me not to highlight. Calling him a "jesus freak" doesn't help either. 

Secondly, what does "I will re-home the birds I bought from him. I don't want his stuff in my loft." mean? Does it mean that his birds have his personality, or must be dishonest birds due to their association with him? Too funny also.

I have talked with Mark over the phone more than once. I have purchased birds from him and they were very fine examples of racing homers. The price was WAY more than fair. A bargain the likes of which I have not found elsewhere. He has been very helpful with questions in PM's, on the phone, and on threads on this forum

I am not saying that you are wrong and he is right, nor vice-versa. What I am saying is that it seems to be a misunderstanding and should be hammered out between the two of you, in PM's or in private. Hurting someones reputation on this forum is not the way to go about it. Because....he did not post about you in any way, shape or form that I can find on here.

You may have told the story exactly as it occurred. But knowing what I know about Mark (admittedly little), I just don't believe it. Not saying it ain't so because everyone has bad days and sometimes engage their mouth before they engage their brain (I have done that many times), but I don't buy it. IMO, it should have been handled in person or via email, phone or PM. Not here. It is something that can not possibly be proven (that he accussed you or said what you said he said), unless he confirms it or you had a tape recorder in your pocket at the time.

I hope you two work it out, and I hope you do not send those birds you obtained from him, to another home, without giving them their shot at helping with your racing plans. He does have good birds. I know that for a fact. Good luck.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I will admit I was more then livid when I read that pm from him..but he refuses to reply to my pm's..and e-mail I'm not going to call him because he owes me an apology. Like you I thought he was helpful with my questions and was giving me a good price for good birds..but would you really want to house and care for animals from a person that called you a thief? I don't know what meds that guy is on but I hate theives..you've read my postings on Mojave. As far as my fiancé's brother is concerned...he sat in the car with the AC running while I talked with Mark. Normally the guy walks with a cane because he's already had 2 heart attacks and he is only 33. Beyond all that..we drove down there closer to 4 weeks ago and now this guy decides to make these false allegations. Yeah, I'm airing out "dirty laundry" so everyone knows what kind of character this guy is. If I won't even ask for a free pigeon from my club (everyone kept nudging me to talk this person or that person) why would I steal would from someone I was buying from? I'm not racing this year and everything I have is strictly breeders. Crap like this is why this sport is dying. Not everyone will kill or steal birds to win a stupid diploma. This is a sport that is supposed to be fun..now this is the turd in the punch bowl.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

You seem to have a lot of trouble when it comes to buying birds.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

grifter said:


> You seem to have a lot of trouble when it comes to buying birds.


I think your right...I should of just accepted the ones offered to me at the club. I just don't think its right saying here I am give me your birds. Thats way I *paid* for what I have accept for what I was gifted freely.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, here we go.

I do owe Chris an apology.

I am sorry Chris.

I woke up this morning knowing I was very wrong in sending you the PM I did. Let's just say some of us should not have access to our computers when we drink.

What I wrote in that PM was not what I had intended to say when I sat down in front of the computer. As I told Chris, I have no proof of what happened to the bird so I would not put it out there for the world to see.

The bird was there the day he came and it was not there the next day. There was a time when he and I were in the garage going over some of the papers on the birds and his friend was out side by himself. Because I have no proof of what happened to the bird I had decided to not say anything, just keep a lock on the loft and set up a video cam. 

Yesterday well after beer 30 I found out Tony had talked to Chris about getting some of Tony's young birds out of my stock and I went were I should not have. 

As some of you on here know I can be a little hot tempered but I do try to learn from my mistakes. 

Mark/Ace


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ace in the hole said:


> Ok, here we go.
> 
> I do owe Chris an apology.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the apology. If you remember neither me nor my ride were allowed inside your loft. We respected your rules and Eddie was dying in the heat and sat in his car in the drive way. I wish you would have said something earlier then almost 4 weeks after the fact.
This is a hobby / sport I intend to pass on to my son..It angers me you would think I or eddie would steal from you. You did step up and were one of the first who offered to help me. For the record though..Eddie has zero interest in pigeons, he is as church deacon and does ministry work and was actually a 26yr old virgin when he got married. He is probably the only "holy roller" I would trust. Plus for the sake of a argument if he had stole anything from you I would of kicked his a$$ and made him bring it back to you so you could his kick a$$. Heart patient or not I hate thieves. I don't know anything about what your missing but it did'nt leave with me.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I should post something here about alcohol. But I will refrain from it.

Just boggles my mind why som manuy partake.

But alas. It is the way of life for so many.

I am glad this is sort of worked out. I have heard of other people missing birds from their lofts and no plausible explanation was ever found. Of course there is an explanation for everything, but sometimes we just never know.

Big of you to apologize. But 30 beers? Wow.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

conditionfreak said:


> *Big of you to apologize. But 30 beers? Wow.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> No, not thirty beers. I don't think that came out the way I ment it ( beer:30 ). Like five oclock someware. I'm not really much of a drinker. It would only take eight or ten beers to put me out.
> ...


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## Possum Fat (Mar 18, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Crap like this is why this sport is dying.


Nah...

Crap like this ain't new. As long as man has been flying pigeons, there's always been someone quick to call someone else a sneakthief or a hustler. Always will be.

If anything is killing this sport, its the club politics and the lack of support towards the newcomers. I commend the guys who are active in getting the youngins involved.

I also wanna commend this fella here who is not shy about apologizing in public. I consider that a noble act. 

PF


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

All I have to say is that I'm glad that this has been resolved and you guys can leave this crap behind you. 

Let's progress not digress!!....


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

ace in the hole said:


> No, not thirty beers. I don't think that came out the way I ment it ( beer:30 ). Like five oclock someware. I'm not really much of a drinker. It would only take eight or ten beers to put me out.
> Ace


Your lucky you only came on here and posted somthing you didn't mean. Last friday night after I hit up the local bars I woke up sat morn in some ladies house half dressed. I woulda much rather of come home and posted some stupid stuff on here. LoL


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## Caden's Aviary (Jul 14, 2010)

Sorry Pigeon, but I would have rather woke up half naked in that lady's house lol.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Caden's Aviary said:


> Sorry Pigeon, but I would have rather woke up half naked in that lady's house lol.


*That there's funny. I don't care who you are, that there's funny.* LOL


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Your lucky *you only came on here and posted somthing you didn't mean.* Last friday night after I hit up the local bars I woke up sat morn in some ladies house half dressed. I woulda much rather of come home and posted some stupid stuff on here. LoL


*I sent him a private message. He is the one who brought it here to a public forum.*

*Ace*


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

*Sorry for both of you and glad you worked things out....*


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Now,now this is a family site
Dave


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Caden's Aviary said:


> Sorry Pigeon, but I would have rather woke up half naked in that lady's house lol.


Nah I don't think you would if you woulda seen her. LoL


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Nah I don't think you would if you woulda seen her. LoL


Atleast she was a she was'nt a he..alot of freaks out there these days


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ace in the hole said:


> *I sent him a private message. He is the one who brought it here to a public forum.*
> 
> *Ace*


Hell yeah I brought it public..you wouldn't reply to my private message or my e-mail. You admitted you are wrong and I'll drop it..but all this could have been avoided if you just talked to me like a man and not make delirious accusations when your shizzed faced.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Nah I don't think you would if you woulda seen her. LoL


Quick. We need a woman to come on here and tell how she got plastered and woke up with some half dressed guy in her house. Who smelled of pigeon poo.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

conditionfreak said:


> Quick. We need a woman to come on here and tell how she got plastered and woke up with some half dressed guy in her house. Who smelled of pigeon poo.


Maybe some other day you woulda been right about the pigeon poo. But that day after I was done with the birds I went out on the boat for a lil while and then spent the rest of the day on the beach. So the pigeon poo smell woulda been long gone by the time I met her. But IDK what it was that night I had girls buying me drinks all night. She must have stepped in way at the end of the night when everybody looks good. LoL


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

*Lets keep it to Pigeons, we don't care about your nights on the town and one night stands............PLEASE....... This is a pigeon form, maybe time for a moderator to shut the thread down!!!*


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2010)

rackerman said:


> *Lets keep it to Pigeons, we don't care about your nights on the town and one night stands............PLEASE....... This is a pigeon form, maybe time for a moderator to shut the thread down!!!*


nothing wrong with a little banter amongst frends  the drinks are on me but the the aftermath is all on you whahahaaa


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, Now to put this thread back on track, Tony has 6 or 8 young birds left that he is looking for new homes. 

They are banded with IPB B bands and can not be raced but will make good starter/breedes for a new flyer.

If interested please PM Tony here on PT at *cabin loft* or PM me and I will give you his #.

Thanks

Mark/Ace


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## Cabin Loft (Apr 3, 2009)

I like to know how I got involve and stuck in the middle? I was only trying to help another guy out. The reason why I have all these birds to give away is because one of Mark's friends said he wanted them and was going to send me his bands. I never heard anymore from the guy. But I like to keep my word and that is what I am going to do for Chris. Of course these are out of Mark's good birds, but I am the guy who paid for the shipping and drove down state to get them. I am the one who bought the other birds from Mark, even the one someone gave him. I am the one who paid to have his (2) good cock birds ship to his friend in Ohio. I am the one who paid to have Mark's (2) hens shipped back to him in Florida.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Cabin Loft said:


> I like to know how I got involve and stuck in the middle? I was only trying to help another guy out. The reason why I have all these birds to give away is because one of Mark's friends said he wanted them and was going to send me his bands. I never heard anymore from the guy. But I like to keep my word and that is what I am going to do for Chris. Of course these are out of Mark's good birds, but I am the guy who paid for the shipping and drove down state to get them. I am the one who bought the other birds from Mark, even the one someone gave him. I am the one who paid to have his (2) good cock birds ship to his friend in Ohio. I am the one who paid to have Mark's (2) hens shipped back to him in Florida.


Ok Tony,

Who wouldn't be in the middle of this if you hadn't ask him to help find homes for these birds.

You state, the reason you have these birds is because of a friend of mine. That friend would have sent you bands and flown your birds if you would have raised them early enough for him to do that. Remember when you called me the end of March or first of April and told me you had the first couple of pair with eggs. I told you them that it was to late to be raising birds for him because he wanted early birds to put into the Combine Auction Race. Your first round would have come out of the nest mid to late May and their first race is mid to late July. So, I wish you would not post on here that you only have these birds because of him. You knew he didn't want them before you hatched the first one.

As for you being the one!!

You drove down state to get the birds I sold you. I then loaned you that two pair to help you get started with some real good racing stock.

The guy you sent the two cock birds to should have paid you for the shipping and I thought he had.

As for the shipping of the two hens you sent down here to me. I did not think that was asking to much of you after you were not able to get them and the cocks to me before I left for Florida. 

I think you got it wrong as far as who got stuck in the middle of this one. I was just trying to find homes for your birds for you as you asked me to do. 

So hey, It would have been nice to get a Thank You instead of this.

*I'm out of it. *

Mark/Ace


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

hi r the birds still available?


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

fancier11 said:


> hi r the birds still available?


Are you in Santa Clarita Valley?


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2010)

ya golden boy i m in newhall but planing to move to saugus.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

fancier11 said:


> ya golden boy i m in newhall but planing to move to saugus.


Sorry, I just saw this. That's cool you don't live too far from me.


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