# What's At The Bottom of YOUR Loft



## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

I'll be installing a coop of sorts in my aviary soon. It will be about the size of a utility shed (like those portable tool sheds you see at garden and hardware stores). What sort of bedding or litter do you put at the bottom of a pigeon loft? What's involved in cleaning and maintenance? I've never done this before, so any suggestions would be extremely helpful.

d.


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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

Scuiry,

I've tried lots of different stuff on loft floors. You name it, I've tried it.

My preference goes to a good grade of sand about an inch deep. I prefer the pre-cleaned stuff in the bag opposed to just getting a truckload off the lot. 2 bags are plenty for a 10 X 12 loft. I rake it and remove clumps twice a month and replace it every 6 months.
So for that loft, it's about $20 a year.

Ground corn cob litter is good. ($16 per #50 at my feedstore) and a little goes a long way. The downside is alot of brands are treated and I've seen pigeons eat it, so I discontinued it.

Shavings have some benefit to repell plumage parasites, but tend to get blown around alot and wind up in feeders and waterers. If it wasn't for the fact that it gets into everything, I'd use it. (I do use it to line the bottoms of nest boxes).

Clay cat litter is good and I almost rate it up with sand, but it tends to produce alot of dust and here again, I've seen birds eat it.

So, my choice for the last 5 years or so has been the sand by leaps and bounds.

K.D.

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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

If you are planning to raise pigeons in your
new loft, then I have found that for me the best floor is no floor. What I do is raise the floor up off the ground about 12", then run 2 x 4 stringers over the floor area, then install chicken wire over the entire floor area, attached to the 2 x 4 studs. Then I place 1 x 6 lumber down on top of the chicken wire nailed to the 2 x 4 studs (I use these boards to walk on when inside the loft. 
This method allows for most of the droppings to fall below where they can be cleaned out once in a while. It also keeps contaminated feed from being eaten.
If this type of flooring cannot be used, then I recommend a wood floor, slatted, with a space underneath for droppings etc. This kind of floor requires a little more work because it needs to be scraped very often but is much prefered to a solid floor where everything just gets mushy. Moisture on the floor can be a real problem with germs and etc. 
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Carl


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

How do you prevent drafts using the chicken wire method?

d.



> Originally posted by bigbird:
> *If you are planning to raise pigeons in your
> new loft, then I have found that for me the best floor is no floor. What I do is raise the floor up off the ground about 12", then run 2 x 4 stringers over the floor area, then install chicken wire over the entire floor area, attached to the 2 x 4 studs. Then I place 1 x 6 lumber down on top of the chicken wire nailed to the 2 x 4 studs (I use these boards to walk on when inside the loft.
> This method allows for most of the droppings to fall below where they can be cleaned out once in a while. It also keeps contaminated feed from being eaten.
> ...


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

In a 10x12 loft how often do you scoop the litter?

d.



> Originally posted by turmani:
> *Scuiry,
> 
> I've tried lots of different stuff on loft floors. You name it, I've tried it.
> ...


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

I keep straw around the edges of the loft on the floor. All of the perches are around the edges. When the droppings hit they are usually suspended from the floor allowing them time to dry. I scrap the floor and perches at least once daily and remove any straw that's got droppings stuck on it. My husband recycles the straw and droppings in a compost pile. My husband has the most beautiful flower beds in town and the greenest lawn. This is not my assessment but those of our towns people. This year after it warms up we will introduce red wigglers to complete the composting.
I was told recently that the pellets for pellets stoves are good. I would worry about what was holding the pellets together and if it was toxic. I do not use them.















Sincerely,
Nancy

[This message has been edited by Nancy (edited January 03, 2002).]


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

Would you recommend potted garden plants underneath perches in lieu of litter or straw?

d.



> Originally posted by Nancy:
> *I keep straw around the edges of the loft on the floor. All of the perches are around the edges. When the droppings hit they are usually suspended from the floor allowing them time to dry. I scrap the floor and perches at least once daily and remove any straw that's got droppings stuck on it. My husband recycles the straw and droppings in a compost pile.*


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

How often do you scoop the litter?

d.



> Originally posted by turmani:
> *Scuiry,
> 
> I've tried lots of different stuff on loft floors. You name it, I've tried it.
> ...


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## candra (Dec 18, 2001)

Well, we have a very "different" loft. Actually we call it "pigeon gardens" as it was constructed around an exisiting raised-bed planter box. It's under two huge trees and it's very tall, and we have an outdoor patio area around it. It is very garden-like, which the birds seem to enjoy. And we like to sit out there in the summer and enjoy the birds.

Because of the planter, it's kind of a split level floor. The very bottom flooring is dirt -- we have a very sandy soil and it drins well if it gets wet. I do add some more sand ocaisionally and I rake it out to clean it.

The second part of the floor is the platner box. It's covered with bark and has a flagstone path around the bird bath. The bird bath is merely a 24 inch plastic saucer for a plant. The flagstone is placed above some rocks for good drainage. 

The plants in there are Bergenia. It's a tuber and the birds love it -- they eat it down to nothing. When they finish with the plant I simply replant it outside the loft and let if grow more leaves and then transplant a leafed plant from outside inside. It's very hearty!! I also supplemet it with alyssium in the spring and summer. They really love that. 

They love to take a bath and then lounge in the gardens, and munch on the greens. 

We have little inverted v's for roosting places and we also put in the limbs from a tree (my husband attached them to the side of the loft, so it's like a tree inside the loft.) They love it.

their nesting boxes are all enclosed, each with it's own porch and a little mousehole entry. i can remove the front to clean and check on eggs. 

Oh yes, we also have a water faucet inside the loft and sprinklers in the garden part. Makes for easy cleanup -- I just hose down the flagstone, which seems to be where most of the poop is. And in the summer when it's hot they love to sit in the gardens and take a shower in the sprinklers (we turn them off in the winter). 

It took us a while to decide what we wanted, but we had fund designing our loft. And my husband built it. We have six very happy and healthy residents in pigeon gardens.

Candy


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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

How often to scoop the litter?

Well, that depends on how many birds are in the loft.

If there's 5 to 7 pair in that loft, it can get by with every 2 weeks. Personally, my preference goes to picking the new stuff up each day as its deposited, but every few weeks really is adequate provided the loft isn't stuffed full of birds.

About some other topics here in.

Wire floors (as per Carl's post): I've seen both good and bad results. Wire floors are especially good during the summer, but I've seen problems with competitive birds on wire floors. A friend of mine had the top Racing loft in Pacific NW history (he's now racing in So.Cal.). One year he switched to wire floors on the advice of a friend down south. The results were good during the summer, but not during the winter. Alot of moisture would come up into the loft during the winter in the form of misted dew and take the edge off his Racing team. He later decided to do both. He kept the floors open during the summer and added solid panels during the winter. I should also add, that unless you add some sort of catching material (tarp, a tray or something) under the wire, you wind up with one hell of a mess under the loft that you can never clean out. In addittion, predators can be a problem with wire or slatted floors, especially in regions where snakes are a problem.

As to using straw in the loft - this is a well publicized "no-no". Straw can work well in a loft, but it attracts red mites and once you get them, they're very difficult to eliminate. If a person really wants to use "bedding" in a loft, my suggestion is pine needles. Same benefit with the added bonus of insect repelling value.

As to planted aviaries, these will work out ok for someone wanting to keep some pet pigeons, but its not too ideal for a breeding operation. One note tho: be careful of the types of plants you use. Many common landscape plants that seem appealing for planted aviary use are incredibly poisonous to birds. (Rhodedendrums are one example). If you are going to do the planted aviary bit, I'd suggest browsing some hookbill sites. Several of them keep lists of bird safe plants for aviary use and this is definitely something to consider first before you rush out to buy plants. Likely, the best way to landscape an aviary interior is to also landscape with plants that are actually beneficial to birds as extra green food or dietary supplements (they'll eat them anyway, so you may as well use something good for them). Certain types of kales, lettuces, pod peas, etc. are all good examples of food stuffs that also have ornamental varieties that can be used in an aviary situation.

K.



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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Dear Pigeon Person,
I would not use litter or potted plants in the loft for this reason. Litter would fly up into everything, the birds would inhale it as well as possibly eat it and I would not know what it was made of. The potted plants would put moisture in the loft as well as I feel make a hugh mess with the droppings.
I believe some plants are harmful to birds. I once had a pigeon that ate alot of a plant in the yard that was highly toxic to it. Sadly enough I figured she wouldn't eat it if it were not good for her and I was wrong. It made her kidneys stop. I had to have her put down. Plants, NO! For me.
Sincerely,
Nancy

[This message has been edited by Nancy (edited January 04, 2002).]


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

Hi Nancy,

My loft is a little different. I have an outdoor aviary mostly exposed to the open air with plenty of ventilation and I would like to build a enclosure of sorts inside the aviary where they can roost at night. The potted plants would be placed stragetically around the aviary where they like to perch the most.

I have some philodenrons - I checked with the nursey for their safety to birds. The pigeons have been eating them all up. I have other plants they mostly ignore. The pots save a lot of clean-up but it seems I need more for other perching spots all around.

d.



> Originally posted by Nancy:
> *Dear Pigeon Person,
> I would not use litter or potted plants in the loft for this reason. Litter would fly up into everything, the birds would inhale it as well as possibly eat it and I would know what it was made of. The potted plants would put moisture in the loft as well as I feel make a hugh mess with the droppings.
> I believe some plants are harmful to birds. I once had a pigeon that ate alot of a plant in the yard that was highly toxic to it. Sadly enough I figured she wouldn't eat it if it were not good for her and I was wrong. It made her kidneys stop. I had to have her put down. Plants, NO! For me.
> ...


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Your idea sounds really great! I thought you were speaking about the indoors part of the loft. I apologize.
Most of the year our pigeons are released everyday, and because of that I don't have a large screened fly pen. We have a smaller caged area for sunbathing without fear of preditors or just hanging out. It also serves as a large entrance to the loft. When you get your idea completed I'd really like to know how you like it, what changes you would make in construction, if any etc.
Sincerely,
Nancy


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## candra (Dec 18, 2001)

The only plants I use are bergenia and alyssium. I checked with the University extension and in some books to make sure they weren't posionous to the birds. And "pigeon gardens" is also well ventilated with a seperate enclosed nesting/sleeping area. We don't let our guys out -- hawks in the area, so we try to make their home as comfy as possible.

Oh yes, we did preserve the wood with linseed oil -- we checked with the vet to make sure it wasn't toxic to birds and he said it was OK. It helps keeps the wood from rotting and in pretty good shape.

Candy


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