# Please help! Sick pigeon baby?



## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

A pigeon baby hatched on my balcony nine days ago. It seems to be breathing very heavily alfor at least three or four days. It is actually panting with its beak open all the time, making tiny labored noises. Mom and Dad have all in all been very caring, but tonight neither of them came back to the nest. I've taken the baby in over night and tried to feed it some baby bird formula (with little success). I had hardly more success with trying to open its beak and looking into its throat. Fromthe short glimpses I had, I could see nothing conspicuous. The tip of the tongue has a bluish black tinge, but the tiny one is totally black-skinned (and black-feeted) any way. There seems to be a little sour smell to its breath. But I am not sure. This is the first time that I am observing so small a pigeon baby, and I simply do not know what is normal and what not in such a fragile little bundle of life. 
It's about a year that I became a real pigeon lover. All I have learned in the meantimeabout the birds I thank to your web site. I have taken in some older babies (3-4 weeks old) and a number of very sick pigeons (also mostly youngsters)and tried to help them--with mixed results. Some of them recovered and urgently wanted to go back to their peers again, some died. One youngster, now six weeks old, has strongly bonded with me and might be staying with me. I have a stash of important pigeon medication, but my experience is entirely insufficient with this nine-day-old baby. I hope I have not done anything wrong so far. Please help!


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

You said you smell something sour, the bird could have "sour crop".. Does his crop look like it won't empty or it's too full? Do you see any poops?

Someone should be along shortly to assist you, if it is sour crop you can try Katie's baking soda remedy.

Mary


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Angelika,

No, you haven't done anything wrong .. if fact, everything right. You recognized that the baby had problems and brought it in. 

This could be a respiratory problem or severe canker developing. If you have canker meds, please give the baby a dose right now. If you can continue to share with us what is going on with the little bird as well as what is in your medicine chest, we should be able to help.

Bless you!

Terry Whatley


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Oh, thank you so much for answering so quickly! The baby is working like a tiny pump. So far it is hanging in, though. I've thought about both canker and a sour crop. I wonder if a sour crop would explain the heavy and fast panting? At any rate, there was a little poop; color more light brown with some white; a little soft, but not watery. Considering that the only food the tiny thing has gotten so far is crop milk, I guessed that this might be normal (I might be wrong though). Now, the medication I have at hand is:

Amoxicillin; capsules; normal dose: 6 capsules/gallon of water for 5-7 days.

Dacoxine 4 in 1; powder; normal dose: 1 teaspoon/gallon of water.

Ronidazole 10%; powder; normal dose: 1tsp/gallon of water for 5 days.

Baytril, 50 mg tablets; normal dose for a grown up bird: 1/4 tablet.

Aureomycin Sulmet (probably not needed here); powder; normal dose: 1 tsp/gallon of water for 5-7 days.

I have evidently nothing that would help against a sour crop. With the other medications I feel entirely helpless about the correct dose for such a tiny baby. 

Perhaps I should mention that apart from the panting problem thelittle one seems to be at a normal stage of development for its age. Has about six times the size it had at hatching; feathers just beginning to sprout. As I mentioned, the parents have been diligent feeders, until tonight, when none of them came back to the little one. 

Most important now: which of my medacations in what dose would be right? How should I give it? In water or in baby formula? Although I have read quite a bit by now about how to force-feed baby birds, I practically still find this extremely difficult. (I have a feeding syringe, but no tube). I also still find it very difficult to just open a small bird's beak and keep it open long enough for a good look into its throat. 

I am very concerned about this little one, especially considering my own clumsiness. I am extremely grateful for any advice you might be able to give me.

A thousand thanks,
Angelika


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Angelika,

Please see the thread titled Hard Crop that I just bumped up for you. It contains instructions for treating crop problems.

I will have to do some checking on the drugs you have and get back with a recommendation.

Terry Whatley


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Hi,
I don't know if the baby can make it but your best bet is to dose with the canker medication and give Baytril.
Those are pretty big tablets of Baytril so one has to be cut down to a very small piece. Can you cut one tablet into quarter pieces giving you 4 12/2 mg doses. Cut that and you will have 6 1/4 mg doses. Cut that one piece and you will get a 3 mg dose. That is what I would give; one piece every twelve hours.
Can you take this bird inside to treat?

Addendum:
A number of my friends here feel that Baytril is not a good choice being that bone growth could be inhibited in a baby so I'm changing the recommendation to Amoxycillin.
I do feel that Paratyphoid is a definite 
possibility in this situation and that's why I felt Baytril would be better.

[This message has been edited by Fred (edited July 30, 2003).]


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

I'm going to have to disagree with some of the recommendations given.

First of all Baytril is a powerful drug which may cause sterilization even in adults. If an antibiotic is indicated something milder like Bactrim in a syringe dose about .02 should be okay.

Second it is not clear from your description that the smell is anything more than ordinary baby pigeon smell typical in squabs that have been sitting in a bunch of poop for a long time. So I would not jump to conclusions about sour crop.

I have seen babies "pant" as you describe and there is literally nothing wrong with them. They do need to be kept warm so if it is alone, a heating pad under the nest or make sure it is snuggled close to its sibling. But be careful not to let him get too warm on a heating pad!

Is there any way you can get a stethoscope and listen to its lungs? A crackling sound will indicate congestion. If you cannot hear anything then your baby is probably okay (I would not think that Trich could cause labored breathing, especially if its not visible in the mouth near the trachea opening). If you have never used a stethoscope listen very carefully - it's a learned skill. But you can hear congestion in a baby or any bird with a stethoscope.

I am hoping you are tube or syringe feeding as it cannot take solid food until weaning age (3-4 weeks). I'm not certain on the tubing schedule but I think several times a day would be indicated. Maybe someone can give you a more precise amount and schedule for feeding.

Daniel


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

Post Script:

You mentioned you hear "tiny labored noises". Do you hear wheezing? If so then it proabably has a respiratory infection. Sorry I didn't notice this in my original post. I would still try to get a stethoscope and listen to its lungs.

Daniel


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Dan,
One of the symptoms of Paratyphoid is gasping.


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Symptoms of Paratyohoid. Please see the section dealing with young birds in the nest and gasping:


Ask Ed!




What should a fancier know about Paratyphoid? 

Paratyphoid is also called Salmonellosis. It’s a common and widespread disease caused by a gram-negative bacterium which is flagellated and, therefore, mobile. It can be brought into a loft through introduction of infected pigeons, by rodents, through inhalation of infected dust, on the soles of fancier’s shoes, by roaches, or through contact with wild pigeons. Often, and adult bird that has overcome the disease remains a carrier and continues to emit infected droppings.

Symptoms of Paratyphoid are varied, because Salmonella flagellates can be found throughout the body in severely infected birds. Most adult birds will show rapid weight loss, along with somewhat loose, greenish droppings. Some birds may develop swelling in the leg joints or feet, or they may develop wing boils. Other birds may have the "twisted neck" syndrome commonly associated with PMV. Baby birds will often die in the nest before the second week after hatching and may show labored breathing. Another symptom is young dying in the egg.

The only drug that will successfully attack most of the salmonella strains is Baytril.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Fred and Daniel for your most informative posts. It seems to me that the best option for this particular bird is the Baytril that Fred originally suggested. This is also a drug that Angelika has available.

Angelika, please let us know what you decide to use and how it goes.

Terry Whatley


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Hello, and thank your for all your advice.

I have read the thread on sour crop and found lots of great information there. But I don't think that sour crop is really the problem here. The baby does seem to empty its crop and ever once in a while poops copiously. Poop looks fine to me (from the little bit I have learned). Light brown, soft, with some white, but not watery.
The panting with the constantly open beak and, yes, tiny wheezing noises is what concerns me most. It continues, but the little bird is still hanging in. I have syringe fed it twice with Exact baby bird formula. The baby doesn't like this at all (but I insisted). Next time, I will try the trick with the food in the fist and let the bird insert its beak bewteen my fingers. 
I have given Amoxicillin and Ronidazole dissolved in water in what I hope is a correct dose. I used an eyedropper and gave three drops of the solution twice (each time after feeding). 
I have no stethoscope here, but I put my ear on the baby's breast and listened closely. There is nothing I can hear there. What I do hear are only these tiny piping or wheezing noises coming out of the mouth. 
Yes, I have taken the little bird in, after the parents obviously left it alone yesterday night. I am not entirely sure if this was the right decision. If it is o.k. as it is, I should probably have tried to get it back to its parents. (There is no sibling. The second egg rotted in the nest and I took it out, as soon as I realized that.) 

Thank you once again for all your advice. I'll keep you posted about the devolopment.

Angelika


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Angelika,

You were absolutely right in taking the baby in. The parents probably abandoned it because it became ill. 

Cynthia


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## Angelika (Nov 22, 2002)

Here I am once more.

I will look out closely for any other symptoms of salmonella. Considering that the sibling died in the egg, there is a possibility that it's parathyphoid. But shouldn't this be seen more clearly with the droppings? 
I believe I had some cases of salmonella among the older babies I have previously taken in. Unfortunately, all of them died. I tried to give Baytril (in about the dose Fred suggested) to two of them, but the disease must have been already beyond treatment. They died just a few hours after the treatment. 
Now, I have already given Amoxicillin and Ronizadole to this baby today. How long should I wait with the Baytril, in case I should try it out?

Angelika


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Angelika,
If this baby does not make it, please don't blame yourself. This sounds like Paratyphoid and it's fast acting and deadly in babies. 
I considered what others wrote about Baytril and frankly, I was wrong in recommending Amoxycillin. Baytril is the only drug of choice for this illness. I would switch over to the Baytril immediately and dose every twelve hours. If this baby makes it, I would suggest a probiotic after you stop the Baytril. A number of vets recommend that even though the antibiotic kills good gut bacteria, one should be given with the antibiotic because it serves to prevent total destruction of the bacteria.


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