# Racing Pigeon breeding eye!



## Freeway Loft (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi im Kyle Yost
I fly in Canada as a junior or with my dad as Freeway.
Now I was Wondering if the eye of a pigeons means anything. I've been told many stories that the eye doesnt mean anything, but i have heard many stories that the eye does matter. In our loft we go by results. We breed our birds by results and not by eye, back ground or by bodie unless the pair of birds are either both big or really small. So mayb any 1 can tell me how they breed their birds and if the eye really does matter!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm not sure this will answer your question but we don't look at the eye either. Many people SWEAR by it. I would LOVE to have one of the "experts" that doesn't know a thing about me and my birds and grade my birds by thier version of eye sign and see what they have to say. We were told a story a few years ago of a guy who took some birds to a show and had them graded by an "eye sign" person. A couple of months later, he took the same birds and had them graded by the same person at another show and they were graded completely different.  I don't see what the color of the eye or the correlation or any of the other non-sense they come up with has to do with whether a bird can race and/or fly. I have enough trouble making sure my birds are not to fat or to skinny, have all their feathers and are healthy without having to look at their eyes.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I once heard eye sign put this way. "What I have noticed about eye sign is that they work best when there are two". Now that makes sense. I look at it this way. To me, and this is just me, name one other athletic endeavor of any species of animal including humans where the color or physical makeup of the eye is the determining factor in breeding or performance success. To my train of thinking, the laws of genetics apply to all, weather you are a person, horse, pigeon or bacteria. But, like everything else in this sport, each to his own.

Dan


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Kyle,

I don't really know anything about the eye sign, but I found a previous thread that you might enjoy reading that has several members discussing the eye sign. Just click on the link:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8774


Linda


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

the eye sighn debate goes back alot of years Several books have been written on the eye sighn. Many people have bred by the use of eye sighn and flown birds by eye sighn. The eye was gradeed from 1 through 10. Where the small circle around the pupil represented the eye sighn grade. You notice it as yellow green black and a pearl on violet eye birds. Then no ring means no eye sighn. Its beliewved the better the sighn the better the bird can see in flight. As far as breeding goes People would offset eye sighn to maintain a quality eye. Some people have gone this route for m,any years and been very sucsessful doing it Others have not and been sucsessful also. While some willl and others will not agree The eye has been a debated subject and will go on being a debated. Test the birds in the sky to learn more about what they can do race results do not lie And those results help in the breeding loft As a raceing homer proves its self only in the sky I have seen many great looking birds That you would say they should be able to do good or breed good birds But fail to do so. The birds have to be tested by flying them To know for sure what you have to work with.


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## Freeway Loft (Jun 7, 2006)

Thx every1,
I guess i'm just going to stick to what i'm doing, breed from results and line breed.
Kyle


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I ordered some eye pieces 15X off of e-bay. I wanted to look at my birds eyes out of curriosity. I looked at eyes of numerous birds of mine. I drew a few conclusions from my observations. They all looked vibrant and healthy. Some looked better than those I see on the so called eye sign pages, some looked worse. I do think the use of they lenses is helpful in assessing the health of your birds, but do not put much weight on the rest of the story. I may tinker with breading my best cock and hen together via eyesign. I do find it funny that the eyesign guys lump the bad eyes into the catagory of flying eye. Duh, if they eye is not a breeder eye than what is it. The only eye that I have seen that stands above the rest in my opinion is that of the "Golden Mattens". I do not have any eyes in my loft that look like that. 
Another thought on breeding. Some swear by eyesign, some by color of eyes, some by pedigree, some by size of birds, some by line-breeding, inbreeding, crossing, and so on. 
I think they are all tools that you can use. I also put as much weight on luck and stock sense when breeding birds. When I was 13, I bought 6 birds for $5 each, somebodys culls. I took them home threw them in the loft. They chose their mates. One pair, a cock with a broken wing the could not fly namced "Bomber" and a little red sion hen bread the 150mile and 225mile winner all birds as a youngbird and won 275 mile race as a yearling. I sold her to the club president for $30 the next year. Lucky for them, I was a junior member and could not win average speed. I do not remember whether she had nice eyes or not. Today I still allow a few pairs to choose their mates. Should we rely on luck or quackery? Anyway they are not ducks, but pigeons. 
Randy Hill


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Sort of the same thing happened to us. First of all, we bought our first 5 birds as a kit from Hogans Heros Loft in NY. He got behind on shipping out what he was selling, so when we finally got the birds there were 8 instead of 5. There were pedigrees on all of them. One was a Van Loon that I named Angel. That first year, we had our birds out flying and a lost racer trapped in with them one day. We contacted the owner and he didn't want the bird back so being new and only having 8 birds, of course we kept it and I named him Checkers. We mated Angel and Checkers together and got a club and/or combine winner out of them in 2002, 2003, 2004 and not a winner but a good consistent bird in 2005. We don't know a thing about Checkers.
The pair of birds that produced our IF Champion were bought at the first pigeon auction we ever went to. I paid $35 for the cock and $65 for the hen. The Cock was the first bird auctioned and no one would even bid on it. After selling the other birds, the auctioneer came back to that bird. I bought it and the rest is history.........I couldn't tell you what any of those birds eyes look like. No clue and don't care. The can see and obviously they can breed. That's all I need to know.........LOL


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> .......
> Another thought on breeding. Some swear by eyesign, some by color of eyes, some by pedigree, some by size of birds, some by line-breeding, inbreeding, crossing, and so on.
> I think they are all tools that you can use. I also put as much weight on luck and stock sense when breeding birds.......
> Randy Hill


Hi Randy,

Everyone can have their own ideas, pet theory's or whatever they want to call them. Heck, they can consult their horoscopes if they think it will give them an edge. 

Only with pigeon breeders do we have such a list of fictional ideas, which people will swear is based on facts. I figured out some time ago, that it is a waste of effort to try to convince "Converts" to the so called "Eye Sign", of the errors of their ways. 

But I don't see how you can even place them in the same tool box along side line-breeding, inbreeding, crossing etc. Heck even your method of pot luck, letting the birds choose for themselves sounds like a better "tool", then figuring it out from looking at an eyeball.... 

But, do and think as you wish. That's what makes this game fun. 

I suspect there are a lot of people with these "tools", that have wasted countless generations, perhaps even a lifetime, simply because they never mastered Biology 101. But as they say...to each his own.... 

Good Luck,


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren
I knew that post would get a rise out of you. The two pairs that I did let choose their mates were couplings that I was going to try anyway. Two were cousins and two were from the same Vic Miller bloodline. I had two brohters and I was going to mate one to a specific hen. One paired up with her while on the young bird team so I let them breed. There is some method to my madness.
Lovebirds I love your stray bird story. It reminds me of the Janssen story of the stray that helped found their loft. I suspect my coupling when I was young was that of birds from the same Sion family. They were most likely related in some way. 
Another thought I had was about the so called breeder eye and racing eye. It seems that eye sign is searching for the perfect breeding eye. Should we not be in search of the perfect racing eye. For do we not want to breed the best racer. I suspect those eyes will be attached to the race winners. Should we then be looking for the winners circle of corrulation in regards to the eye. 
Randy Hill


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Now Warren if I didn't know any better I might think that the young bird season is just around the corner or something. Getting a little touchy are we?!  

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Randy,

The only Circle of Correlation I would be interested in is the one that correlates to any shread of genetic reality! Sorry, just stirring the pot a bit.

Dan


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Eye sighn I saw my bird enter the trap did i win the race.. Thats a good eye sighn. But really the eye is just part of the bird And i believe in 1979 a study on the birds eye was used they made fogged contacts for the birds took them 100 miles from there loft and every bird made it back to there loft. So this kind of goes aginst eye sighn. You should be able to find some reading on this subject as it was in 1979 and then about 1982 or 84 they showed the raceing homer had iron traces in its brain that was believed to help the bird to navigate it way home by the directional path. Alot of research has not really been made to a point that says for certion why a raceing homer can do what it does. I can remember when they said if they could figure the homing pigeon out on its homing instinct they could use that method for a more accurate guide missle for milatary use. Will we ever have the answer No will we ever improve the bird Yes if we maintain a solid aspect of breeding the better bird.You see birds today that are lighter and faster then years ago. remember the average speed of base line birds was 45 mile per hour now some have that higher base speed that is no wind in flight. So birds evolve slow but the do evolve The eye is part of the whole Use it but do not dwell on it.


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## old dutch loft (Jun 12, 2006)

eyesign dont make a pigeon,nor does it define him,to me its just another wierd thing people do to racers.some believe its a good chance this bird might be a breeder.that brings some to the question,that bird didnt beat any of mine in the sky this past year,but last year he did.well in all reality,if you ask me the eye dont fly,its just another gimmick they have at racing club shows to win an award.infact the more you raise and race them you will notice many yellow eyed birds that dont have a chance in hell of placing in an eyesign show,unless he has something there that is "wierd"but tear the hell outta the sky.ive raced many of them.ive had deep bloody red eyed birds that flow great and lousy,ive had the same with violet eyed birds as well as pearled.it just dont matter in the sky,"but dont quote me on that,i dont want to be called a fibber".anyway in the show,yes in the sky?maybe,who will ever really know this answer?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Enjoy::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::*

Here is how I see it
Some people ENJOY racing
Some people ENJOY showing
Some people ENJOY winning
Some people ENJOY looking at eyes
Some people ENJOY breeding
Some people ENJOY having birds
So don't knock what others ENJOY just ENJOY. There is something for everyone that have pigeons the word is ENJOY. GEORGE


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

That is very well said George...........Thank you. We tend to get carried away with our own personal agendas and forget that what's important or fun to me may not be to you or someone else. If I'm happy, then everyone should be happy that I'm happy and just be happy!!!!!!!!!!


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## Freeway Loft (Jun 7, 2006)

yes Very good. but i'm sure EVERYBODY loves winning too that what makes this sport so competetive ya i need a dictionary. well at least likes to. but the main part, ENJOY and HAVE FUN like any other sport!
Kyle Yost


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