# 2 injured pigeons- assistance appreciated



## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

I have two injured pigeons. It looks like a hawk got one but for whatever reasons, the pigeon got away. His wing was broken. I've had him a few weeks keeping him in a small cage to limit movement until his wing was better. I keep his cage in the garage. Over the past two weeks I've been slowly re-teaching him to fly (with success) however I might have overdone one session as his wing was drooping to the ground and it seemed he was lifting his shoulder to get it in the right place. I have stopped all flying sessions. The next day his wing seemed to be back where it should be but I do not want to release him with the hawks around in this weather unless I know he can fly well. How do I know if his wing has set and/or how do I set it properly? Any suggestions?
The second pigeon had thread around her claw. I carefully have removed 98% but there is still one bit around her second nail but it is too swollen. Her whole claw although still pink is very enlarged. I poured isopropyl alcohol over her claw and have moved her and the male into a large 4' x4'cage. At least they're not lonely. Question: what can I do to assist in the swelling/circulation and it looks like the she will lose her nail where the remaining thread is, so I am concerned about what the best course of action is at this point. Both are perky & eating well.
As I do wildlife gardening I am accustomed to some wildlife injuries but sure could use some expert advice.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello and welcome to pigeons.com.

You seem to have managed very well so far, and it was wise not to release the wing injury as soon as he seemed better.

One of our members is a rehabber that lives in Stratford Ontario (see the post Found Baby Pigeon) and I think that she might be the best person to advise you on how to proceed.

The only suggestion I can make is that you could rub Bach rescue cream into the foot to see if that reduces the swelling and loosens the thread sufficiently to remove the thread. 

Cynthia

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_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Jules,
What did you hope to accomplish by pouring alcohol into an open wound? That string has cut the bird's toe, probably down to the bone. Putting alcohol on probably caused an additional amount of incredible pain. Alcohol is not appropriate to treat any bird. A diluted Betadyne, diluted iodine or Nolvasan is fine.
The bird is going to lose at least part of the toe to what is called dry gangrene. As long as the string is in the wound, there is danger of infection if it isn't there already and if it goes into the bone and/or bloodstream, it's going to travel. For that reason, it is required to not only give an appropriate antibiotic and to take the bird to a vet so that this serious injury can be dealt with properly. I would have suggested that you rub in an antibiotic ointment to try and loosen up the string but Ive got a feeling that if you go after it now, a lot of bleeding would start up and trying to stop that kind of bleeding is very, very difficult.
Your other bird doesn't sound like it had a broken wing but it does sound dislocated and it will take months for it to regain strength. There is no way of knowing if full strength will be reacquired. Again, the bird should have been taken to a vet in order to determine if there was indeed a break and a proper dressing should have been applied. Now, if it was a break, it's too late for normal regeneration. It takes three weeks for a broken bone to heal and if it isn't set correctly and immediately, it will set in an improper position.
I appreciate your trying to take care of injured birds but it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to do it well and that takes time to learn. In the meanwhile, please get a sick or injured bird over to a rehabilitator or to an avian vet.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Fred,

I know that you are a good person but on this ocasion you are being harsh and extremely unfair. 

Taking pigeons to the vet is not always the wisest step as my own experience has shown and you should know by now that it is difficult to find a vet or even a rehabber that will even attempt to help a pigeon. Sometimes people have to learn to do it themselves as I am certain you did once.

I took two pigeons with wing injuries to the vet. One vet just passed it to the assistant and told her to "do what you usually do with these" ie kill it. The next vet advised me on two separate occasions to let an injured bird rest and if it was no better after three weeks then they would take X-rays to determine if the wing was broken. I have yet to hear of a vet that sucessfully set a broken wing. So Jules did exactly what my vet advised and doesn't deserve to be belittled for his efforts.

As for the foot injuries, I took a pigeon with string injuries to two vets. One wouldn't treat it, the other wanted to euthanaze. The only wild life hospital would have euthanased on principle. You may remember that it was through you that I learnt to deal with foot injuries!

I know that I am not up to your standards of knowledge and experience, nor are the majority of members, but if I had to take every sick and injured pigeon that I found to the vet I would be bankrupt and the pigeons would be dead. Because I had friends that gave me advice and didn't knock me every time I made a mistake I have 30 healthy pigeons in my aviary.

Cynthia


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

Thanks for the advice Cynthia, I called the rehabber. I do not know what Bach cream is though. But I am going to get some cream and hopefully can get the swelling to reside a bit.
Fred, I used the common sense approach. The rehabber around here puts down all pigeons saying "New Castle" so I wasn't going to go that route. I am going to find a vet to get some domoso and a broad spectrum antibiotic.
The pigeon with the injured wing can fly & maneuver through the garage, so it is possible that it was dislocated and not broken.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jules,

The Bach Rescue cream is part of the Bach Flower Remedies and I have heard it is a natural but very effective remedy for all sorts of injuries.

The string injury sounds relatively minor considering what appalling damage can be done...I have one poor bird that lost both feet! When the second foot went the femoral artery severed and blood just started pumping out...fortunately we had just driven for four hours to get him to Helen (one of our members) and he was lying in her lap at the time, so she was able to stop the bleeding, treat him for shock etc and he survived.

I am sure that both your pigeons will be fine.

Cynthia


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Jules/Cynthia,
I didn't mean it to come across harsh and if it did, I do apologize.
Cynthia, don't ever put me in a higher class of expert than anyone else. There is no end to what we all have to learn and it's would probably take more than a lifetime and more. There is always a person who knows more and can do something better than we so it's important never to think we know everything.
Jules, I really do appreciate your trying to take care of these birds. I got a little sick when I read you poured alcohol over the toe so I became more matter of fact kind of writing. It causes pain and worse, it can go into the bloodstream and poison the bird.
If you don't trust your rehabber who obviously doesn't want to do pigeons and can't get to a bird rehabber, you have got to do it yourself. At least try to get some basic supplies over the net. We can give you sites and items you need.
I don't know if the swelling will ever go down, even if the string comes off. There has been a serious insult to the circulation in that area and more likely than not, a portion of the toe will come off before swelling comes down. You definitely need an antibiotic for this. A good one that hits these kinds of infection is Baytril. 
In that cut is string that is wrapped around and knotted. Trying to lift the string to find the knot(s) is an invitation for heavy bleeding. If you haven't done it before, I don't suggest you try to get it out. You would need something like an angled dental pick to gently get under the string and pull it up so you can cut it and unwind. There are a probably a lot of vessels in that area that are still alive and hitting one is trouble. 
If that happened, then to save the bird, one would have to immediately amputate that portion of the toe, get the string out and apply pressure right on the wound for at least a straight 40 minutes. I would not want you to go through that so I recommended a vet. As long as there is string in that lesion, there is danger of infection.
I hope I explained myself better.


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

Might I say something? I too am passionate about wildlife and have very strong opinions on this subject. My regular wildlife rehabber closed down in May forcing me to content with all sorts of wildlife situations on my own. I am resourceful and will find out what is necessary to contend with the current situation. Fred, you don't know me but your advice was good even if it did ruffle my feathers a tad. If the world was full of wildlife loving humans then I wouldn't have happened on this site (searching for information), the local vet would have sufficed. I can take the feather ruffling as long as I learn something and the animal/bird benefits. And Fred, I do learn and I will continue to try to do the best I can and I do appreciate your words of wisdom.
Yes, Cynthia, I have been the vet route many times over the years with pigeons, crows, etc and sadly came away worse off. I have a wildlife garden with everything planted for furry, feathered or crawling critters. If I see an injured or sick wild critter I feel it is my responsibility to assist. 
There are several pigeons here (wild as they all are) that do not have feet and manage just fine... even in the trees. Thanks for the info on the Bach cream, I shall try & get some.

Julianne


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Jules,
Just to give you an example of something, I have a bird that has been on antibiotics for about 6 weeks. He has an infection on the bottom of one foot called a bumblefoot and it isn't going away. I'm trying all kinds of antibiotics that can hit staph infection. I don't think this abscess is going to resolve and surgery for this condition is not very successful.
I'm feeling pretty helpless here even though I'm trying everything. None of us wins them all and I wish I knew more to be able to help this bird.


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## kayzee123 (Nov 15, 2003)

Hi Fred,

I just read about the bumblefoot situation. I have cured a number of birds with this condition, and it's true, it's not easy to get rid of. It cane take months in some cases.

But here is what I do...
I use tetracycline, which is a broad spectrum anitbiotic that treats both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. I aso use Domoso (an antiinflamitory topical gel). I recently began using arnica cream as well. I put the arnica on first, then the Domoso. I've also done foot soaks in warm water and epsom salts. I do this right before applying the arnica and Domoso. 

Since one of the causes of bumblefoot is a lack of Vitamin A, I increase that by giving the birds dark, leafy greens like spinach. 

In a recent case with a swan, I did resort to surgery because the bumble was so big. The vet cleaned it out and I treated the incision by flushing it with hibitane. I then applied a topical antibiotic, and wrapped the foot in sterile gauze. I did this every day for 10 days. Not an easy thing to do with a swan that's pissed as hell about being cooped up.

You may have done all this already, but since I've had good success with getting rid of bumblefoot, I thought I would pass this along.

Also, Jules did phone me. I was on my way back from picking up the baby pigeon in Hamilton from Amanda. She will keep in touch with me and I have offered to take the birds. The one with the wing problem will need indoor flight time and I've advised her not to release it until spring. She agreed.

As for the one with the string, I adivsed her to get the bird on an antibiotic immediately and try the Domoso and arnica to reduce the swelling. While the tissue is so inflamed, there is no hope of getting the string out.

I will keep in touch with her. She's about and hour and a half from me, so it's possible to get the birds to me.
Kaaryn


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Kaaryn,
I really appreciate your post and I'm very happy that Jules has a friend close by. Two heads are always better than one.
Thanks for all the good advice about the bumblefoot. Let me tell you what I've done so far over a 6 week period:
The right foot pad has a scab dead center. I initially took off the scab to see what was below it and there was a depression and some abscess. There is simply no use in trying to get the core out (if there is one) because the bottom of the foot bleeds heavily and without the benefit of cauterization, it's literally working blindly in blood. I soaked gauze with an antibiotic ointment and kept it on. When a new scab formed, I took the gauze off and debrided the area with Nolvasan twice a day. After two weeks, I again took off the scab and saw the same condition so I wrapped the gauze again and redid everything that I told you.
Baytril was started the day I got the bird and then Baytril/Amoxicillin combination. If it is a staph infection, the bacteria can break down the Amoxicillin and render it useless so now, I have the bird on Clavamox.
Initially, when I first got the bird, the entire foot was swollen. All the swelling is gone now but I'm still dealing with the scab in the center and what it is covering. 
I really have a pessimistic attitude about this because other than the swelling coming down, I don't see anything changing in the pad. The only thing left to do if Clavamox doesn't work is to take the bird up to my vet and ask him to scrape out the entire pad and pack it. 
Do you consider antibiotic soaked gauze the equivalent of soaking the foot? At this point, I'll take any advice you have to offer. Thanks again.


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

Kaaryn,
I forgot to mention that every two weeks, the bird is getting a Cod liver capsule for the vitamin A content.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Julianne & Welcome.

Thank you so much for taking the time to rescue these sweet pijjies from what most certainly would have been a horrific death for each.

All too often the general public intentionally ignores an injured or ill pigeon. The fact you cared enough to help them, says a lot. 
Please keep us updated on how they are coming along.

Kaaryn:
Welcome aboard. Thanks to you as well for assisting & offering your advice. 'Team work' is a valuable tool.
Cindy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks Kaaryn for helping Amanda with the baby pigeon, I'm so glad we have you in that neck of the woods! Treesa


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

I wanted to thank you all for the great advice. The pigeon with the dislocated shoulder is doing well and I shall keep him over winter to fully recover.
The one with the thread wrapped around the foot is doing well but still not using her foot and it is still quite swollen. I have removed all the thread but I wonder whether I should soak her foot in epson salts.
Suggestions would be appreciated.

Julianne


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## Fred (May 10, 2003)

These injuries heal better dry but I would put the bird on an antibiotic. Antibiotics not only stop infections but also bring inflammation down.


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

She's been on a broad spectrum antibiotic since Sunday. As well as using Bach's rescue cream daily. She toe nail did come off ( on it's own) but that appears to be the only permanent damage from the thread (meaning -she hasn't lost any of her toes). I thought she would be using her foot a bit and she does...but only when she has to. With the swelling not coming down I thought that perhaps I should do something else as well.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Bumping up


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