# Problems with Pigeon Breeding



## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Hey!

I am a bit new to having a pigeon as a pet and I first got my male back in November about 7 months ago. He has bonded very well with me but not with my husband, mostly due to the fact I spend more time with him. However he has bad separation anxiety to where he will climb his cage and go crazy once I leave his line of sight, so I thought I would get him a mate. So I got him a brown female from a local loft and asked him for advice on breeding and whatnot. So he tells me to put them together in the cage and after a couple days of duking it out a bit they would bond. They haven't and it's been about 3 days and he had actually drawn blood from her on a spot in the back of the head and around her eyes so we separated them for a bit till she heals up. I know their territorial birds but to be opposite sexes they should pair up quite quickly. If anyone has a pet pigeon they spend a lot of time with can help me with this, I'm starting to wonder if it's because he thinks I'm his mate...but I don't know what else to do. We know for sure she is a female since she has laid before at her previous loft and he shows all the signs of being a male but they really aren't getting along well...


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I would not have put them together in a confined spot. If they are indoors slow introduction in two different cages would be better. I know this is hard as you would have to buy another cage just to put them together. Let them out together so they can get to know each other but she has room to run if need be. Good luck I know it is difficult as you would like them together.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

K thanks for the help! That's what I've been doing as of yesterday. I have a really big cage and I've sealed off half of it so they each have half to themselves and each has a next box. I've been taking one of them and putting them in the other's part of the cage and I have my hand near her to keep him at bay from pecking her, and I'll do it periodically throughout the day for 10 min or so to get them used to each other a bit.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Update: It's been 4 days since we got the hen(Coco) and they still aren't getting along well in the short times I let them in the same part of the cage. I managed to bond with Coco a bit though, which is good news. She's still a bit shy but last night and today she managed after some hesitation to eat from my hand. I'll consider that progress! I'm trying not to pay much attention to the male(Pidgey) in hopes that he will start looking more towards Coco which is housed under his half of the cage as more of his companion.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

They will bond eventually. He considers you his mate and she was uprooted and thrown into a new situation. You are doing things the right way though now by letting them be close to each other but now forced into the same territory. Be patient and they should eventually become inseparable!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Renalight said:


> Hey!
> 
> I am a bit new to having a pigeon as a pet and I first got my male back in November about 7 months ago. He has bonded very well with me but not with my husband, mostly due to the fact I spend more time with him. However he has bad separation anxiety to where he will climb his cage and go crazy once I leave his line of sight, so I thought I would get him a mate. So I got him a brown female from a local loft and asked him for advice on breeding and whatnot. So he tells me to put them together in the cage and after a couple days of duking it out a bit they would bond. They haven't and it's been about 3 days and he had actually drawn blood from her on a spot in the back of the head and around her eyes so we separated them for a bit till she heals up. I know their territorial birds but to be opposite sexes they should pair up quite quickly. If anyone has a pet pigeon they spend a lot of time with can help me with this, I'm starting to wonder if it's because he thinks I'm his mate...but I don't know what else to do. We know for sure she is a female since she has laid before at her previous loft and he shows all the signs of being a male but they really aren't getting along well...


i have 3 doves....the mother of 2 children....(i lost the mate he flew away, i believed he would come back and did; but something scared him away from coming inside the outdoor cage and he wouldn't come in.) So, now all 3 live inside with me; they have their own room, i have their cage outside of the 6' window in their room..where they eat and go outside. i suggest you take the pair out of the cage and put them inside with you....you will soon learn their droppings are easy to control, and you can teach them to only poop in a certain place which is what i have done. 

i had the same problem you had...the female (mother) was very lonely and i got her a mate from the breeder, last November. i left them be free in the room, it was only a day or two that they mated...keeping them together in the cage means the new dove has invaded the territory of your dove and that is normal reaction...so put them in a non-territorial environment and they will mate.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

your black pigeon sees her as an intruder on his space and to top it off he sees you as his mate..so breaking that is a hard thing if you are still tending to him, I would not interact with him only to feed and water and then introduce them in another spot that is neutral , perhaps out where they can have some space and time may tell if they pair up.. which I think if you keep that up they will..how long it will take? I don't know.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't have to put them in together. Just leave them in their own side of the cage. In time they should start to show interest in each other, and act like they want to be together. Don't seal off the cage so that they cannot see each other. It should be either 2 different cages beside each other, or something like hardware cloth (welded wire) in between them. The idea is for them to see each other and get used to each other. If it is a solid wall then they can't do that. Don't put her in with him, as if he fights with her or injures her, you are just setting things back. Do it this way, and slowly, and they will usually pair up in a week or two. Sometimes they just won't like each other. Allowing him to beat on her is mean and not helpful. 
When they act as though they want to be together, then let them out in a room together. Not in his cage, as that is his territory, and he may attack her. Let them out together and wait till they go into one of the cages together.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Mated pair! Thanks for the help you guys are awesome! She is getting used to me more and he sadly has resorted to biting me all the time since he is not bonded to me anymore. But they look happy and they got one helluva nest going lol.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Renalight said:


> Mated pair! Thanks for the help you guys are awesome! She is getting used to me more and he sadly has resorted to biting me all the time since he is not bonded to me anymore. But they look happy and they got one helluva nest going lol.


 good to hear!
what were the steps you took to make this easier than before?


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> good to hear!
> what were the steps you took to make this easier than before?


When I had most of the day off from work I kept them on the same half of the cage I blocked out and just watched them. I stayed near the cage so when he started to get close to her I would get up and put my hand in front of her to block him but he could still look over my hand to see her. After a while he would give up and perch somewhere to take a nap and the clincher I think was when they were able to take a nap on a towel on the floor of the cage about a foot away from each other. After that when he got near her he wasn't as aggressive and then he started doing the courtship displays around her and now they're inseparable! 

She actually laid her first egg tonight and I have to get with the hubby to see what he wants to do with them. We live in an apartment and I doubt the owner would like to see a bunch of pigeons raised in his establishment, but we are kind of curious to see what patterns we can get from them. He was thinking of releasing them after they were ready to fly but I don't know about that.

Now, I do have one more question for you guys. He bites. Hard. I know they are a territorial species but I was "bonded" to him before her so wouldn't he accept me as part of his "flock" or something? Is it even possible to get him to stop biting all the time? I'm up to any suggestions at this point...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if he bites you then you are part of the flock.. they are in pairs and do scuffle with others of the flock. they also drive the hen to the nest which can get aggresive at times. so that is normal, I would just keep my hand away from his beak. The eggs she will lay may be fertile if he mates with her. releasing the young is a bad idea as they will be domestic pets raised in an apartment and releasing them is no more than like dumping kittens to fend for themselves, feral pigeons are from domestic stock and if hatched and raised in a domestic way then they are pets. being you are in an apartment you really are not set up to breed pigeons so you need to buy some fake eggs and use those for hatch control.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Releasing their offspring is a bad idea, as they would have no way of knowing how to live wild. Where to get food, or how to avoid predators. This is taught to young birds from their parents and the flock when they are young. Letting them go free after raising them, as was mentioned, is like turning out kittens and expecting them to be alright.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah I talked to my husband about it cuz I wasn't too fond of the idea, so I replaced 1 egg and we're gonna just hatch 1 chick to have bonded to us. I'm working with his biting habits and he's not that bad now although he will still ignore the seeds in my hand and just keep pecking my hand constantly. Every now and then he will eat from my hand, especially if the hen does. 

Sorry but I do have another question (so sorry for the questions but I'm new to this stuff and don't want to mess anything up!) is it ok for me to clean the nest box around the nesting bowl? They have massively runny poop from sitting on the eggs most of the day and it's starting to be a bit smelly... =/ lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Gee, that's too bad. It's nice to raise the 2 together. That way they have a nest mate and a friend. When he is weaned, he will still need to be put in another cage, as the parents will pretty much push him out. Yes, you can clean the box. That shouldn't bother them.


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## Dnayoungmula (Jun 25, 2013)

Keep doing Wat your doing but it also helps if when he bites you don't move your hand dont show him his bite at effective if your already doing that good keep doing Wat ur doing


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Gee, that's too bad. It's nice to raise the 2 together. That way they have a nest mate and a friend. When he is weaned, he will still need to be put in another cage, as the parents will pretty much push him out. Yes, you can clean the box. That shouldn't bother them.


Do I need to keep the youngster in another cage indefinitely? I'm thinking of replacing the egg with a fake and not let it hatch cuz I just had a vet friend tell me of all the problems that can occur physically and mentally from the birds. I really wanted 1 bird raised and trained young to bond to my husband and I and be more like a "pet", but if it's going to be too much trouble then I might just have to give up and kill it... =/

You guys are all awesome by the way I really appreciate the insight since I'm new to all this! xD


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

when the baby is weaned the cock bird won't want it around his hen so the young bird would need a space to himself..then a mate at some point if your husband does not fit that spot for it. what is the vet saying? sounds like he may be scaring you for nothing.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> when the baby is weaned the cock bird won't want it around his hen so the young bird would need a space to himself..then a mate at some point if your husband does not fit that spot for it. what is the vet saying? sounds like he may be scaring you for nothing.


Eh she's not a vet per se but worked in a vet's office and she's about my age in her mid 20's and I don't know if she knows about pigeons or just parrots and other "pet" birds so I don't know if I really trust her information she's giving me. But she thinks I should kill the egg because of the strain it puts on the parents and I'd have to keep them separated to prevent the hen from laying again. I'm just wondering if I bit off more than I can chew by getting him a companion to share his time with since I was working quite a bit and didn't have the time to be with him some days...when I told her I got him a mate she kinda freaked out and asked why because it reverted my male to a more feral state and he would have been content with just an hour of my time each day. But he had really bad separation anxiety where he would flap to get out of his cage if I left the room his cage is in so that led me to get a mate for him. And I really want this chick to have just for the hubby and I but she says for it to bond to us I would have to hand raise it and I really don't have the means for that so I'm just kinda freaking out and wonder if I should just kill it or if I should have gotten 2 birds to begin with and just let him keep breaking his tail feathers in trying to get out of his cage to come to me.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

This person is over empasizing a lot of problems without putting them in context.

You sound like a responsible pet owner.

CONSTANT breeding is a large strain on any animal. That means churning out brood after brood. Not an occasional pair of chicks.

Any egg laying hen need proper 'support'. This means calcium supplements to replace what she is using to lay the eggs. This should be done whether you let the eggs hatch or not.

pigeons are flock animals. They will not be content with 1 hour of interaction. And neither would parrots for that matter, so I don;t know what this person was on about.

You don;t have to hand raise a chick for him to bond with you. It obviously creates a much stronger almost instant bond, but love and attention will also create a great bond.

I got my first ringneck dove as a young bird (well past being a fledgling) and within a few weeks he was seeking my company (was a handled aviary bird before, not a pet, and not hand raised)
For the 2 years I had him as a personal pet he was the most confident, curious and affectionate bird.
I'd bring him down to my room in the morning. He'd snack. Explore. Perch and nap. Bug me for attention. Cuddle up. Sleep on my arm while I was doing my homework. then sometimes I'd lie down, him perched on my forearm, and we'd take a nap together 

by the time he was 3/4 his hormones really started kicking in and he would court anything that moved and would frantically hold onto the bars and flap for me to get him out. He was getting so frustrated, (and me with him!) that I relented and got him a mate.

He is the most content bird you will see. Though he still courts anything that moves. Including his fledgling daughters when they are old enough!!

About their mental health: at first I did not want them to breed. I removed all the eggs (replaced with fake). I noticed this was making them a little frantic, they kept changing nest sites, like they were REALLY trying to make it work.

So now, every now and then I let them raise one or two. They are much more settled.

So DON'T PANIC
do your research and adapt that information to what suits your situation and your bird best


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Thank you so much Lisa for easing most of my self doubts! That's why I love this website everyone gives such great and helpful information. I am using oyster shell grit to help her with the egg laying and she eats quite a bit of it. One concern is when I was reading around today I noticed a lot of posts about how often to let them breed and how they will breed all year given that they live in a suitable living environment. I've seen both advice in separating them in different cages to prevent breeding but I also read that for inside birds to just keep replacing the eggs with fake ones and it'll just keep happening so there's nothing you can do but keep replacing the eggs with fakes. So do I need to separate them or just keep replacing eggs? I don't really have another cage right now and I never thought that would be an issue.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Renalight said:


> Eh she's not a vet per se but worked in a vet's office and she's about my age in her mid 20's and I don't know if she knows about pigeons or just parrots and other "pet" birds so I don't know if I really trust her information she's giving me. But she thinks I should kill the egg because of the strain it puts on the parents and I'd have to keep them separated to prevent the hen from laying again. I'm just wondering if I bit off more than I can chew by getting him a companion to share his time with since I was working quite a bit and didn't have the time to be with him some days...when I told her I got him a mate she kinda freaked out and asked why because it reverted my male to a more feral state and he would have been content with just an hour of my time each day. But he had really bad separation anxiety where he would flap to get out of his cage if I left the room his cage is in so that led me to get a mate for him. And I really want this chick to have just for the hubby and I but she says for it to bond to us I would have to hand raise it and I really don't have the means for that so I'm just kinda freaking out and wonder if I should just kill it or if I should have gotten 2 birds to begin with and just let him keep breaking his tail feathers in trying to get out of his cage to come to me.


poor advice IMO



I will try to keep this short. how pigeons spend most of their time is with a mate nesting, mating, courting. it is a huge if not the biggest part of a pigeon's life. IMO a lone pigeon would not be happy or live a full life with only an hour of your time. if you could see how my whole flock interacts constantly and most have their mates and keep the same one. to deny the most huge natural part of an animals life is not a good quality of life. just use fake eggs for the pair if you do not want more pigeons, which would be adults some day and need mates of their own.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Ty Spirit for the advice. I didn't know if I should take my friend seriously on things since when I first got my male pigeon and asked her some questions on it she didn't seem to know a lot specifically on pigeons but just in birds in general. That's why I wanted to voice my concern to you guys since you all have experience with your own pigeons. And I was thinking along the same lines as you stated about them living a fuller life with an actual pigeon mate and not just me, and I think that's why I decided to get him one. So we'll let them raise this one chick and I think that's all we will have for a while is just the 3 of them. (Hoping for a girl!) I just want 1 that was raised as a chick to be accustomed to humans in a more interactive loving environment since I don't know how my pair were raised themselves. Judging by the way my male had a couple of owners and might have moved around a lot, and the way he hates hands, I think he might have led a rough life up till now.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

Renalight said:


> I am using oyster shell grit to help her with the egg laying and she eats quite a bit of it.


I also periodically give my doves cut up hard boiled egg, a little bit of shredded cheese, and fresh greens.

The fresh greens is especially important for the youngster. I am no expert breeder. But the first chicks that hatched for them had splayed legs when they were old enough to move around.

When I looked up what might have happened I found 2 causes - not enough grip on the surface of their cage (not an issue since they have metal mesh) - or not enough vitamins.

I cut up iceberg lettuce really small (i found the easiest is 'biting' bits of the lettuce off with my fingernails) and gave them that for a few days (along with normal feed for the adults) within a couple of days their legs had straightened out!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, they should have a nest with nesting materials piled in it. Even the weight of the parents can cause the leg to splay out. All pigeons need calcium, which the parents will pass on to the babies. Kale, spinach, ground oyster shell, and Hi-Cal pigeon grit help with this.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Renalight said:


> Ty Spirit for the advice. I didn't know if I should take my friend seriously on things since when I first got my male pigeon and asked her some questions on it she didn't seem to know a lot specifically on pigeons but just in birds in general. That's why I wanted to voice my concern to you guys since you all have experience with your own pigeons. And I was thinking along the same lines as you stated about them living a fuller life with an actual pigeon mate and not just me, and I think that's why I decided to get him one. So we'll let them raise this one chick and I think that's all we will have for a while is just the 3 of them. (Hoping for a girl!) I just want 1 that was raised as a chick to be accustomed to humans in a more interactive loving environment since I don't know how my pair were raised themselves. Judging by the way my male had a couple of owners and might have moved around a lot, and the way he hates hands, I think he might have led a rough life up till now.



That is really not an idicator of a ruff life, most do that esp when on the nest, even hand raised ones that are sitting on eggs will protect their nest it is normal, so thinking it abnormal is really not right. some pigeons though are more protective than others, some are flighty and prefer to take flyer past your head, others just growl some bite pretty hard if you let them. even hand raised birds when coming into adult hood and know what sex they are can be down right mean esp cock birds from frustration and trying to drive what they see as their mate to the nest.

having them hatch out another pigeon takes some planning of what to expect. you won't know the sex for 5 or 6 months of age most times. if you end up with a cock bird that will be a problem for your cock you have now as it will be competion so they would have to be seperate, a lone hen may cause problems with the pair but then they may just act as a trio. if you don't hatch anymore then that would be ok, but if you did then the second hen would or could cause problems with them raising it.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Actually, they should have a nest with nesting materials piled in it. Even the weight of the parents can cause the leg to splay out. All pigeons need calcium, which the parents will pass on to the babies. Kale, spinach, ground oyster shell, and Hi-Cal pigeon grit help with this.


Yes, they have a nest with straw, and then when they start leaving the nest and pottering about they are on the bottom of the metal cage.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> if you end up with a cock bird that will be a problem for your cock you have now as it will be competion so they would have to be seperate, a lone hen may cause problems with the pair but then they may just act as a trio.


If I put another nest box at the top shelf in the cage would that solve most problems with another pigeon added to the cage? I'm not too worried about it if it's another female but I don't know about another male. They are in a small cage but how does that differ from pigeons being in a loft? I know most were paired up at the loft i visited to get my female, but will 1 lone bird be that bad for my pair?


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Actually, they should have a nest with nesting materials piled in it. Even the weight of the parents can cause the leg to splay out.


And no problems there Jay lol their nest is about as thick as the nest bowl it's surrounding and the cock will still take materials in to her to build on it! I'll have to take some pictures lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes! Pictures would be great.
Some of them build nests like thrones. LOL.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Renalight said:


> If I put another nest box at the top shelf in the cage would that solve most problems with another pigeon added to the cage? I'm not too worried about it if it's another female but I don't know about another male. They are in a small cage but how does that differ from pigeons being in a loft? I know most were paired up at the loft i visited to get my female, but will 1 lone bird be that bad for my pair?


two pairs in the same cage is trouble. the cocks will fight for cage space. in a loft there is more space than needed so it works out. not to say they don't scuffle over a nest box once in awhile esp if a new up coming young bird finds he wants to compete, but there is room to get away and fly up from the trouble. pairs do better when there is no lone birds with them to cause trouble. at some point their young bird will be just another pigeon to them and the cock bird will fight with him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Renalight said:


> If I put another nest box at the top shelf in the cage would that solve most problems with another pigeon added to the cage? I'm not too worried about it if it's another female but I don't know about another male. *They are in a small cage but how does that differ from pigeons being in a loft? *I know most were paired up at the loft i visited to get my female, but will 1 lone bird be that bad for my pair?



More space is how it differs. In a loft environment, they have more room to move around without running into one another. Pigeons are very anal about what they perceive to be their space. They won't share it. This pair has had the cage as their territory for a while, and now to add another bird, once grown, it will be invading what they see as their territory. Even in the wild, parent birds will drive their young ones from their territory, to find their own space. In a loft they can do that, but in a cage, they cannot leave the parents territory. Even another female can cause problems. You really should have pairs.


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

This is the hen Coco. (As you can see I've learned not to give them ground corn since they just fling it all over the place lol)







And this is the size cage I have for them, and I'm still amazed I found it at a garage sale for $25.







And of course the nest and my Pidgey taking his turn to sit on the eggs. I wish he was this chill when I let him out and stop taking a bite of my hand whenever I give them food/water lol.








I'm starting to get anxious since the egg is supposed to hatch soon! This will be day number 14 so any day now if all went well we should have a little baby chick!


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

So I'm totally sad and bummed out...the egg they were sitting on was moving in the egg a couple days ago (day 14) and I thought all was going well but today I noticed a crack in the egg like it was trying to hatch but no movement and of course I couldn't candle it to see if anything was wrong inside since it was dark and developed. I was freaking out and I probably shouldn't have done anything to it but in my panic I thought the chick had died trying to break out of the shell. So my husband and I gingerly started opening the egg a bit hoping it would still be alive and I don't think it was. It was wrapped in a membrane and it was really bloody and when we got the chick out it still had the yolk hanging out of it. =/ I'm a bit worried after reading up on paratyphoid and dead chicks in the hatching period, and Coco had big green watery grainy looking droppings that smelled horrible, but I also read that when they sit on the nest longer their droppings can be like that. After 16 days should the embryo still have the yolk out like that within the hatching window? I feel really bad and almost like a failed parent


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## RockPigeon<3er (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm very very very sorry to say but 
You likely killed the chick D: i was there a pip, but that's it? Pip to zip can be hours (or days) but zip to out should only be about half an hour. Likely he was alive, absorbing the yolk and waiting for the veins to dry up, you panicked, and killed him ): I hate to be 'that dude' but in this case I'm gonna be. I did the same thing my first hatch hatching chickens, don't worry, he died quick and its something that happens VERY often to new hatchers. What's done done, your not the first person to do it (just be happy it wasn't a goat or a human, even though its just as sad killing your own baby or a goat or a cow is 10x as sad! Just think of how much worse you could've done and you didn't! I'm terrible at consoling!)
Next time read this link before intervening  
http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching
I'm very sorry


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## Renalight (Jun 5, 2013)

Eh I kinda thought about that myself but you live and learn I guess. Thanks for the info I thought I was prepared for this but looks like I will need to do a bit more research lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You shouldn't interfere when a chick is trying to hatch. If he can't get out on his own, he probably won't make it anyway, and it's too easy to kill them by trying to help.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Renalight said:


> So I'm totally sad and bummed out...the egg they were sitting on was moving in the egg a couple days ago (day 14) and I thought all was going well but today I noticed a crack in the egg like it was trying to hatch but no movement and of course I couldn't candle it to see if anything was wrong inside since it was dark and developed. I was freaking out and I probably shouldn't have done anything to it but in my panic I thought the chick had died trying to break out of the shell. So my husband and I gingerly started opening the egg a bit hoping it would still be alive and I don't think it was. It was wrapped in a membrane and it was really bloody and when we got the chick out it still had the yolk hanging out of it. =/ I'm a bit worried after reading up on paratyphoid and dead chicks in the hatching period, and Coco had big green watery grainy looking droppings that smelled horrible, but I also read that when they sit on the nest longer their droppings can be like that. After 16 days should the embryo still have the yolk out like that within the hatching window? I feel really bad and almost like a failed parent



big mistake. the time line is 19 days and sometimes 20 till hatching. so you took him out and it died. in the future don't worry what an embryo should have or not have. wait the days and stay out of it, if the egg is s dud then it won't hatch, letting is sit for at least 24 days from the time it gets heat or incubation then probably won't hatch. the best thing to do is just leave them alone. lesson learned and what a horrible one.


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