# worming weanlings



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

When you put you weanlings into the yb loft do you worm or treat for cocci, canker? What do you do? I know from raising dogs that they all have worms when they are born do you think most pigeons should be treated for something after weaned? I am going to try to get some fecals around the loft this week and see if there is something to treat for but just wondering what others do?


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

I worm all birds twice a year. Spring and Fall with two treatments two weeks apart each time.

Tony


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## Tipleras (Jul 26, 2010)

Is it possible to get a gift a couple of Tipler?


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

I treat twice a year, 6 months apart, I used to worm younsters when they are just more than one month old, but this time I am waiting to treat them along with rest of the flock as the fecal tests were negative for worms


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Tipleras said:


> Is it possible to get a gift a couple of Tipler?


Tipleras, You will have a better chance if you post in the "Adoption" or "Wanted & for sale" sections


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Here is what I do and I have all healthy pigeons. I use Apple Cider Vinegar 4 days a week a plastic soda bottle cap full to a gallon. Two days a week I use Garlic Juice. I bought a small bottle of minced garlic and drain off the water into a gallon jug. Then replace the water and let it soak up the minced garlic in the bottle. On Sundays I use a cap full of Red Cell iron mineral supplement to a gallon of water. For the worms I mix in 2 cups of Diatomacious Earth to 50lbs of feed. This "dust" is always on thier feed and acts as a natural mechanical dewormer that is safe for the birds. Here is a link to a website thats uses Food Grade DE http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/diatomaceous_earth.html I've been using it now since April and my pigeons seem "bright eyed and perky". Make sure the DE is FOOD GRADE..DE for swimming pools will kill your birds because it has added chemicals in it..you want pure natural Food Grade Diatomacious Earth. Hope this helps.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Here is what I do and I have all healthy pigeons. I use Apple Cider Vinegar 4 days a week a plastic soda bottle cap full to a gallon. Two days a week I use Garlic Juice. I bought a small bottle of minced garlic and drain off the water into a gallon jug. Then replace the water and let it soak up the minced garlic in the bottle. On Sundays I use a cap full of Red Cell iron mineral supplement to a gallon of water. For the worms I mix in 2 cups of Diatomacious Earth to 50lbs of feed. This "dust" is always on thier feed and acts as a natural mechanical dewormer that is safe for the birds. Here is a link to a website thats uses Food Grade DE http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/diatomaceous_earth.html I've been using it now since April and my pigeons seem "bright eyed and perky". Make sure the DE is FOOD GRADE..DE for swimming pools will kill your birds because it has added chemicals in it..you want pure natural Food Grade Diatomacious Earth. Hope this helps.


DE is a serious hazard to the respiratory systems of all animals, including humans. *Caveat Emptor!*

"*Silicosis* is the disease most associated with crystalline silica exposure; it is incurable but preventable. Silicosis is a debilitating and often fatal lung disease. The lungs become very inflamed and may fill with fluid, causing severe shortness of breath and low blood oxygen levels. The precise mechanism that triggers the development of silicosis is still unclear. What is known is that particles of silica dust get trapped in the tiny sacs (alveoli) in the lungs where air exchange takes place. White blood cells called macrophages in the alveoli ingest the silica and die. The resulting inflammation attracts other macrophages to the region. The nodule forms when the immune system forms fibrous tissue to seal off the reactive area. The disease process may stop at this point, or speed up and destroy large areas of the lung. The fibrosis may continue even after eliminating exposure to silica."

The website you listed has this disclaimer at the bottom of the page, but nowhere do I see any mention of silicosis.

"PRODUCT, SERVICE, & INFORMATION DISCLAIMER

The information on this Web site is designed for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for informed medical advice or care. You should not use this information to diagnose or treat any health problems or illnesses without consulting your vet, pediatrician or family doctor. Please consult a doctor or vet with any questions or concerns you might have regarding your, your child's, or your pet's health condition.

The statements regarding these products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Information contained on this website is intended for the sole use of the individuals using the website. It is not meant as a substitute for or alternative to information from health care practitioners. If you or your pets are taking any medication or are under treatment for any disease, please consult your health care professional or veterinarian about potential interactions or other possible complications before taking any of these products. If you or your pet are pregnant or lactating, please consult your health care professional or veterinarian before taking any medication or dietary supplements. The efficacy of these products has not been confirmed by FDA approved research and the traditional use of these products does not establish that the products will achieve the manufacturer's claimed results."


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

I haven't checked with the Food and Drug administration for their approval of natural supplements. The FDA did approve Aspartame and you can google how good that is for everyone. As far as the DE doing harm that could be said of any prolonged exposure to any dust without ventilation. What I did not read in your post was that it did not work..FDA approval or not it just works and if not inhaled in a closed shut in environment seems safe. Of course you could use the government "approved" chemicals and feel better about it but be careful of overdose and side effects.

I went back through and re-read the article and it says:Food grade diatomaceous earth is EPA approved to be mixed with grains to control mealworms and other pests and has been exempted from tolerance requirements as an inert, inactive ingredient in chemical pesticides. Diatomaceous earth is EPA approved against indoor and outdoor crawling insects. Diatomaceous earth is USDA approved as an anti-caking agent for animal feed. Diatomaceous earth is FDA approved for internal and external use and has a rating of Food Chemical Codex Grade.

Food grade diatomaceous earth has been used for at least two decades as a natural wormer for livestock. Some believe diatomaceous earth scratches and dehydrates parasites. Some scientists believe that diatomaceous earth is a de-ionizer or de-energizer of worms or parasites. Regardless, people report definite control. To be most effective, food grade diatomaceous earth must be fed long enough to catch all newly hatching eggs or cycling of the worms through the lungs and back to the stomach. A minimum of 60 days is suggested by many, 90 days is advised for lungworms. 

Food grade diatomaceous earth works in a purely physical/mechanical manner, not "chemical" and thus has no chemical toxicity. Best yet, parasites don’t build up a tolerance/immunity to its chemical reaction, so rotation of wormers is unnecessary. 

People often ask why our DE is rated Food Chemical Codex Grade. If it was only labeled as "food" grade, people would think it is only useful as a food supplement and since DE "acts" like a chemical by dehydrating insects, it was labeled "Chemical" grade since it acts like a chemical, but it is NOT a true chemical like a pesticide or insecticide. It is perfectly safe for oral consumption.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I wonder why some flyers want to change "age old" medications that have worked for years & years?
Something they read or heard ?
My pigeons can/will pull a fright train---"COUPLE THEM UP"


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

sky tx said:


> I wonder why some flyers want to change "age old" medications that have worked for years & years?
> Something they read or heard ?
> My pigeons can/will pull a fright train---"COUPLE THEM UP"


I had to do a double take when I read that rebuttal..I love my birds and wouldn't do anything to hurt them. I even drank a few glasses of DE just to see what is like..tasteless really but people mix it with their juices for the health benefits.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes jAxTech--nothing wrong with being careful.
I'm 74 y/o-welded in Coal Fried power plants built with Asbestos 40 years-Have smoked 50-60 years. Guess I need to start taking some DE. Time for me to start being MORE careful.
I used it in my feed to help keep the bugs out-Weavels. So the birds got some also?
And I kept 2 birds 20 years.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> I had to do a double take when I read that rebuttal..I love my birds and wouldn't do anything to hurt them. I even drank a few glasses of DE just to see what is like..tasteless really but people mix it with their juices for the health benefits.


Do you wear a mask when dispensing the DE?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> Do you wear a mask when dispensing the DE?


_DE is just very old, or sometimes not so old, dried out Diatoms shells. They are primarily silica, which means that they act like glass in many respects. They don't react with many other compounds, degrade very slowly, are brittle and sharp and largely inert. While this makes them chemically invisible to people and animals and kills via physical...or rather mechanical...means, via cutting, it also works as inert material within the gut, filling it up with something they can't process and blocking further feeding or digesting._

The above statement was posted by the seller of "food grade DE." If this is the way it works, wouldn't it have the same effect on any organism ingesting it?

How come everything *positive *I find on the internet regarding DE is posted by people who are selling it? Check out some of the regulations on DE from the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI):

*Diatomaceous Earth*
Status: Allowed with Restrictions
Class: Processing Pest Controls
Origin: Nonsynthetic Nonagricultural
Description:
May only be used in conjunction with facility pest management practices provided for in paragraphs 205.271(a) and (b) and only if those practices are not effective to prevent or control pests.
NOP Rule: 205.271(c)

*Diatomaceous Earth*
Status: Allowed with Restrictions
Class: Crop Pest, Weed, and Disease Control
Origin: Nonsynthetic
Description:
For use as a pest lure, repellent, or as part of a trap, or as a disease control. May be used for other pesticidal purposes only if the requirements of 205.206(e) are met.
NOP Rule: 205.206(b)(3), 205.206(d)(2) & 205.206(e)

*Diatomaceous Earth*
Status: Allowed with Restrictions
Class: Processing Non-agricultural Ingredients and Processing Aids
Origin: Nonsynthetic Nonagricultural
Description:
For food filtering only.
NOP Rule: 205.605(a)


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Yes jAxTech--nothing wrong with being careful.
> I'm 74 y/o-welded in Coal Fried power plants built with Asbestos 40 years-Have smoked 50-60 years. Guess I need to start taking some DE. Time for me to start being MORE careful.
> I used it in my feed to help keep the bugs out-Weavels. So the birds got some also?
> And I kept 2 birds 20 years.


And I'll bet you use DE in your pool filter too!


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ptras said:


> _DE is just very old, or sometimes not so old, dried out Diatoms shells. They are primarily silica, which means that they act like glass in many respects. They don't react with many other compounds, degrade very slowly, are brittle and sharp and largely inert. While this makes them chemically invisible to people and animals and kills via physical...or rather mechanical...means, via cutting, it also works as inert material within the gut, filling it up with something they can't process and blocking further feeding or digesting._
> 
> The above statement was posted by the seller of "food grade DE." If this is the way it works, wouldn't it have the same effect on any organism ingesting it?
> 
> ...


I like your enthusiasm to play the skeptic. Is this another out of context qoute you have here...earlier you said DE was not approved by the FDA and it is. Here it looks like you have quoted the OMRI for the Industrial grade DE and not the *FOOD GRADE* This could go back and forth but I would like to get back the original post and seeing as you have a thing against Diatomaceous earth aka a natural de-wormer...what do you recommend be used on ybs? Also if everyone is wrong and your right and all these studies and sellers are just hyping snake oil...take out a class action lawsuit.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I've been using food grade DE in my birds feed for about a month and have noticed a real improvement in overall health. I also spread around the floor as it helps maintain a dry environment. Breathing in the DE is no worse than breathing in a bunch of dust after dumping the vacuum. Just be careful how/when you use it and you'll be fine.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> I like your enthusiasm to play the skeptic. Is this another out of context qoute you have here...earlier you said DE was not approved by the FDA and it is. Here it looks like you have quoted the OMRI for the Industrial grade DE and not the *FOOD GRADE* This could go back and forth but I would like to get back the original post and seeing as you have a thing against Diatomaceous earth aka a natural de-wormer...what do you recommend be used on ybs? Also if everyone is wrong and your right and all these studies and sellers are just hyping snake oil...take out a class action lawsuit.


No contextual problems here. The quotes in the first post and the second post are both in regards to *food grade* DE. And food grade DE is *NOT* approved by the FDA. It *does* have approval of the EPA, but then again, so does the bottle of Sevin out in my shed.

As for what to use? I'm not sure. However, I know that I will not be using DE.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

West said:


> ...Breathing in the DE is no worse than breathing in a bunch of dust after dumping the vacuum. Just be careful how/when you use it and you'll be fine...


This is a repeat of the fallacies that have been posted here, and are rampant on the websites of people who sell "food grade" DE. What causes silicosis, is not the chemicals contained in non-food grade DE. It is the DE itself. The unique shape of each individual piece when it gets into your lungs. You stated that breathing it is no worse than breathing dust from the vacuum. I don't know what's in your vacuum, but mine doesn't contain carcinogens and particles that will cause silicosis.

The information you have provided, is *exactly* the kind of propaganda that manufacturers of asbestos dispensed when people started to realize that it could kill them. As a result, hundreds of thousands of people had exposure unnecessarily. Mesothelioma isn't a pretty sight. I watched my uncle die a slow and horrifying death from it. I think that *I* will avoid the use of DE.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ptras said:


> This is a repeat of the fallacies that have been posted here, and are rampant on the websites of people who sell "food grade" DE. What causes silicosis, is not the chemicals contained in non-food grade DE. It is the DE itself. The unique shape of each individual piece when it gets into your lungs. You stated that breathing it is no worse than breathing dust from the vacuum. I don't know what's in your vacuum, but mine doesn't contain carcinogens and particles that will cause silicosis.
> 
> The information you have provided, is *exactly* the kind of propaganda that manufacturers of asbestos dispensed when people started to realize that it could kill them. As a result, hundreds of thousands of people had exposure unnecessarily. Mesothelioma isn't a pretty sight. I watched my uncle die a slow and horrifying death from it. I think that *I* will avoid the use of DE.


Are you kidding me? Do you honestly believe that a carcinogen would be sold for livestock use? You should do more research before you make claims that are not true. I will post my links so you can follow up on them.Look at the reference for the DE Wikipedia page http://www.reade.com/Products/Minerals_and_Ores/diatomaceous_earth.html

"Diatomaceous Earth General Description: 

a) A naturally occurring mineral derived from microscopic in size fossilized remains of marine diatoms. It has high absorption, low bulk density and high brightness.
b) Deposits have been mined for centuries and have been used in hundreds of industrial and agricultural applications. There are two primary types of diatomaceous earth deposits - saltwater and freshwater. 
c) Saltwater DE is commercially processed in the United States, primarily application as a filter aid. Beer, wine, fruit juices, and vegetable oils are filtered through the diatoms' multitude of pores, acting as microscopic sieves. Swimming pool and fish tank filters also utilize this material. Because saltwater DE has a high crystalline silica content from a process called calcining (being exposed to high degrees of heat), it is not appropriate, and in fact dangerous to use in ingestible applications such as grain storage and as an animal feed additive.
d) Freshwater DE [what DE36 is] is mined from ancient lakebeds, primarily in Nevada and Arizona, and is ideal for agricultural uses because it typically has a low crystalline silica content (amorphous), and is highly absorptive. Documented use of diatomite by the Chinese for pest control dates back almost 4,000 years. Because of its ability to kill insects, DE has been used in grain storage for generations. As awareness of and concern about chemical pesticides grow, non-toxic, natural, diatomaceous earth is enjoying renewed attention and interest. As well, many farmers and ranchers tout DE as a neutral anthelmentic (de-wormer), and are finding great success by adding it to their livestock feed to keep their goats, sheep, cattle, horses, pigs, and fowl healthy and clean without the use of chemical drugs.

Typical Chemical Purities Available:

There are two basic grades available. 

One grade is suitable for use as a garden insecticide (crystalline silica content is around 0.36% to 1.12%) and is usually approved by both the EPA and the FDA. 

The other grade is sold by swimming pool suppliers (crystalline silica content is close to 60%) as a filtering agent.

If your uncle tried to save a buck and used industrial DE for swimming pools then yeah actions have consequences...but you are the first person to say that DE causes cancer..and if you have any evidence or research that supports your claim. I would like to know.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

jAxTech--what age do you expect to live? 39- 69- 99?
As Careful as you are reading everthing -maybe over 100.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

sky tx said:


> jAxTech--what age do you expect to live? 39- 69- 99?
> As Careful as you are reading everthing -maybe over 100.


I tried to share the best advice I was given to someone that wants to know...thas morphed into a chemical analysis of DE...with a "causes cancer" twist


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Are you kidding me? Do you honestly believe that a carcinogen would be sold for livestock use? You should do more research before you make claims that are not true. I will post my links so you can follow up on them.Look at the reference for the DE Wikipedia page http://www.reade.com/Products/Minerals_and_Ores/diatomaceous_earth.html
> 
> "Diatomaceous Earth General Description:
> 
> ...


This post tells me some things about you. First, that you believe the government would never approve the use of a carcinogenic feed additive. Second, that you believe what you read on Wikipedia. Wrong on both accounts.

My uncle died from mesothelioma as a result of exposure to asbestos. He never bought a bag of DE in his life.

What is "industrial DE" and can I get some for my swimming pool? Is this a third, previously unknown grade of DE?

You obviously haven't done much research on the carcinogenic effects of materials that are ingested or inhaled. There is much speculation within the scientific and medical communities, that *it isn't the chemical makeup of materials that make them carcinogenic, but the shape of the particles.* In other words, asbestos, fiberglass, DE, rock wool...all potential carcinogens. That elongated "broken glass" shape will embed the fibers in lung tissue, creating medical problems, up to, and including cancers such as mesothelioma. So no. I am not the first person that has said that DE may cause cancer. I'm just the first person that you are aware of that has said it.

You are welcome to continue using DE in your loft and for yourself. And to tell the truth, I don't really care what the long term exposure will do to people who ignore the potential effects of such exposure.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> I tried to share the best advice I was given to someone that wants to know...thas morphed into a chemical analysis of DE...with a "causes cancer" twist


I never said it causes cancer. It is a potential carcinogen. Feel free to take the risk.

When I charge my swimming pool filter at start-up time, I wear a mask. The rest of the year, I eliminate the use of DE, and use cellulose instead. I'm not going to take the risk myself...call me chicken.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ptras said:


> This post tells me some things about you. First, that you believe the government would never approve the use of a carcinogenic feed additive. Second, that you believe what you read on Wikipedia. Wrong on both accounts.
> 
> My uncle died from mesothelioma as a result of exposure to asbestos. He never bought a bag of DE in his life.
> 
> ...


Wow now your saying its not the material thats carcinogenic but the shape of the molecule...if that was the case then everyone would be dead of Cancer because air pollution is everywhere..I don't trust the Government or politcians..I know too many Native Americans they learned the hard way what trusting the US Government gets you. But you originally claimed this supplement was not approved and made it sound like some bogus snake oil. I still have not seen any evidence from you or any website that claims this is a carcinogen..but I do appreciate your approval to allow me to continue to use what I know works and as long as I'm not "huffing" the stuff out of a plastic bag...I think me and my birds will be fine.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Wow now your saying its not the material thats carcinogenic but the shape of the molecule...if that was the case then everyone would be dead of Cancer because air pollution is everywhere..I don't trust the Government or politcians..I know too many Native Americans they learned the hard way what trusting the US Government gets you. But you originally claimed this supplement was not approved and made it sound like some bogus snake oil. I still have not seen any evidence from you or any website that claims this is a carcinogen..but I do appreciate your approval to allow me to continue to use what I know works and as long as I'm not "huffing" the stuff out of a plastic bag...I think me and my birds will be fine.


Huff away my friend.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

In fact the more I researched this product and all praise people have heaped upon it in this little spirited debate...I'm even more sold on it and plan on buying more. Check out this video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQn6GSHNzBE


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Foy's web site says to wait until birds are 4 months old to worm them. If you wormed the parents before breeding, then I don't think it necessary to worm them until that time.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

ptras said:


> Huff away my friend.


 As soon as you demonstrate the proper technique


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

jAxTecH said:


> Wow now your saying its not the material thats carcinogenic but the shape of the molecule...if that was the case then everyone would be dead of Cancer because air pollution is everywhere..I don't trust the Government or politcians..I know too many Native Americans they learned the hard way what trusting the US Government gets you. But you originally claimed this supplement was not approved and made it sound like some bogus snake oil. I still have not seen any evidence from you or any website that claims this is a carcinogen..but I do appreciate your approval to allow me to continue to use what I know works and as long as I'm not "huffing" the stuff out of a plastic bag...I think me and my birds will be fine.


*All you need to do is a little research:*

Title: 04/05/1999 - Hazard communication requirements for diatomaceous earth.
Record Type: Interpretation	Standard Number: 1910.1200(d); 1910.1200(f); 1910.1200(g)

April 5, 1999

MEMORANDUM TO: REGIONAL ADMINISTRATORS
FROM: RICHARD E. FAIRFAX. DIRECTOR, DIRECTORATE OF COMPLIANCE PROGRAMS
Subject: Clarification on Enforcement Policy under the Hazard Communication Standard for Diatomaceous Earth

This memorandum is to provide clarification regarding enforcement policy under the Hazard Communication Standard (HCS), 29 CFR 1910.1200, for uncalcined diatomaceous earth products. Questions have been raised regarding the information which must be included on MSDSs and labels for these products. Specifically, we have been asked to clarify the information required for the health effects of silicosis and carcinogenicity. (Diatomaceous earth is defined as amorphous silica composed of the skeletons of prehistoric plants, or diatoms, containing less than one percent crystalline silica.)

Studies of the fibrogenic potential (silicosis) of diatomaceous earth provide conflicting evidence - some showing positive results and some showing negative. Since the criterion for establishing and reporting health hazards under the HCS is "evidence which is statistically significant and which is based on at least one positive study conducted in accordance with established scientific principles," information on the adverse health effects resulting from exposure must be reported on the label, and a discussion of the potential for silicosis must be included on the MSDS.

Regarding carcinogenicity, the HCS requires any chemical which has been designated a carcinogen (or potential carcinogen) by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), the National Toxicology Program (NTP), or is regulated as a carcinogen by OSHA to be listed as a carcinogen on the MSDS.

danger sign
If you have a carcinogen hazard, good signage and labeling are critical. Products from Safety Emporium can help.

Diatomaceous earth has been tested as a whole and evaluated as a Group 3 carcinogen by IARC. A Group 3 listing indicates that diatomaceous earth is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans, since definitive conclusions cannot be drawn from the research conducted to date. Therefore, there is no requirement under the HCS to state a definitive finding of carcinogenicity on the label or MSDS for diatomaceous earth products containing less that 1% crystalline silica. However, the principle of "one positive study" applies here as well, and the results of any study conducted in accordance with scientific principles which shows statistical significance of carcinogenicity resulting from exposures to this product must be included for discussion on the MSDS. This enforcement policy does not apply to products containing greater than 1% crystalline silica, and cancels and supersedes all prior interpretations on this issue.

We hope this information is helpful. Should you need any further assistance in this regard, please do not hesitate to contact the Office of Health Compliance Assistance on 202-693-2190. 

And I love this one the best:
*Although diatomaceous earth is often described as a carcinogen, according to "Proctor and Hughes' Chemical Hazards of the Workplace," the silica contained in it is only a probable carcinogen.
*

*And just in case you missed the MSDS:*
HASA DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (D.E.)
Material Safety Data Sheet MSDS No. 114
Major Update: 08/01/01 Minor Revision: 08/12/09 Page 1 of 4
DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (D.E.)
Material Safety Data Sheet
Emergency 24 Hour Telephone: CHEMTREC 800.424.9300
Corporate Headquarters: 23119 Drayton Street
Saugus, California 91350
Telephone 􀁹 661.259.5848
Fax 􀁹 661.259.1538
* See Below
IDENTIFICATION OF PRODUCT
TRADE NAME (S):
(CELITE© = C) AQUA-CEL©, C503(ALL), C535, C545, C552, C560, C566, C578P, C580, X-6, X-7, DICALITE
GENERIC NAME:
FLUX CALCINED DIATOMACEOUS EARTH
CHEMICAL NAME:
SILICA
CAS:
68855-54-9
EINECS:
272-489-0
FORMULA:
SIO2
COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
INGREDIENT NAME:
CAS NUMBER
%
PEL AND TLV
FLUX CALCINED DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (DE)
68855-54-9
100
See below.
This product may contain up to 54% crystalline silica:
Cristobalite
14464-46-1
<50
0.05mg/M³ Respirable Christobalite, OSHA
Quartz
14808-60-7
<4
0.1mg/M³ Respirable
Quartz, OSHA
PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance and Odor: Fine white powder. No Odor.
Boiling Point:
NA
Evaporation Rate (=1):
NA
Specific Gravity (water=1):
2.3
Vapor Pressure:
NA
Melting Point:
ND
%Volatile by Volume:
NIL
Water Solubility (%):
Negligible
Vapor Density (Air=1):
NA
pH:
9 – 10.5
NFPA FIRE HAZARD SYMBOL CODES
* SEE HAZARD IDENTIFICATION SECTION
- SEE NFPA 704.
HASA DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (D.E.)
Material Safety Data Sheet MSDS No. 114
Major Update: 08/01/01 Minor Revision: 08/12/09 Page 2 of 4
HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
Summary: This product contains Crystalline Silica (CS), which is considered a hazard by inhalation. IARC has classified inhalation of CS as carcinogenic for humans (group 1). CS is listed by NTP as known human carcinogen. Inhalation of CS is also a known cause of silicosis, a noncancerous lung disease.
Medical conditions which may be aggravated:
Pre-existing upper respiratory and lung disease such as but not limited to bronchitis, emphysema and asthma.
Target Organ(s):
Lungs, Eyes
Acute Health Effects:
Transitory upper respiratory or eye irritation.
Chronic Health Effects:
Inhalation of Crystalline Silica has been classified by IARC as carcinogenic for humans (group 1). Inhalation of Crystalline Silica is also a known cause of silicosis, a noncancerous lung disease caused by excessive exposure to Crystalline Silica.
Primary Entry Route(s):
Inhalation. Dust contact with eyes.
FIRST AID MEASURES
Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air. Drink water to clear throat and blow nose to evacuate dust.
Eyes:
Flush eyes with large quantities of water. If irritation persists consult a physician.
Skin Contact:
NA
Skin Absorption:
NA
Ingestion:
Not hazardous when ingested.
FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Flash Point (Method):
Nonflammable
NFPA Flammable/Combustible Liquid Classification:
NA
Flammable Limits: LEL: NA UEL: NA
Auto-ignition Temperature:
NA
Extinguishing Media:
NA
Unusual Fire or Explosion Hazards:
None
Special Fire-Fighting Procedures:
None
ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Procedure for Spill/Leak:
Vacuum clean dust with equipment fitted with HEPA filter. Use a Dust Suppressant such as water if sweeping is necessary.
HANDLING AND STORAGE
Minimize dust generation and accumulation. Avoid breathing dust. Avoid contact with eyes. Seal broken bags immediately. Continue to follow all MSDS/LABEL warnings when handling empty containers.
EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Goggles:
Goggles or Safety Glasses with Sideshields are recommended.
Gloves:
Not normally required.
Respirator:
< 10X PEL, Use an N95 Quarter or Half Mask Respirator;
< 50X PEL, Use a full face Respirator equipped with N95 Filters;
< 200X PEL, Use a powered air purifying Respirator (positive pressure) with N95 Filters;
< 200X PEL, Use a full face, Type C supplied air Respirator (continuous flow mode).
Ventilation:
Use sufficient natural or mechanical ventilation to keep dust level below PEL.
Other: Special Considerations for repair/maintenance of contaminated equipment:
Insure proper respiratory protection.
HASA DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (D.E.)
Material Safety Data Sheet MSDS No. 114
Major Update: 08/01/01 Minor Revision: 08/12/09 Page 3 of 4
STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
Material is stable.
Chemical Incompatibilities:
HYDROFLUORIC ACID
HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION CANNOT OCCUR.
Conditions to avoid:
None in designed use.
TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Summary: This product contains CYSTALLINE SILICA (CS), which is considered hazard by inhalation. IARC has classified CS as carcinogenic for humans (GROUP 1). CS is listed by NTP as a known human carcinogen. CS is also a known cause of Silicosis, a noncancerous ling disease.
ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Generally considered chemically inert in the environment. Used material which has become contaminated may have significantly different characteristics based on the contaminant and should be evaluated accordingly.
DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Waste is not hazardous as defined by RCRA (40 CFR 261). Other state and local regulations may vary. Consult local agencies as needed. Used material which has become contaminated may have significantly different characteristics based on the contaminants and should be evaluated accordingly.
TRANSPORTATION INFORMATION
D.O.T. Proper Shipping Name:
Earth, Diatomaceous, crude or ground
REGULATORY INFORMATION
OSHA Hazard Communications Standard, 29 CFR 1910.1200:
Material is considered hazardous. See HAZARD IDENTIFICATION SECTION of this MSDS.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*And just in case you think I'm trying to pull one over on you, here is the MSDS for "natural" DE:*

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET NATURAL DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (DE)
1 . PRODUCT AND COMPANY INFORMATION
DICALITE MINERALS CORP. 1 Bala Avenue, Suite 310, Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004
Trade Name(s): Dicalite (All Natural DE Products) Dicalite
104,183,BP-3,BP-5,CA-3,CA-5,D4A,D4C,D4R,D4AFA, 677,
677S,SA3,
Generic Name: Natural Diatomaceous Earth
CAS #: 61790-53-2
EINECS: 310-127-6
Formula: Predominantly SiO2
Chemical Name: Silica
Manufacturer: DICALITE MINERALS CORP.
Address: 1 Bala Ave, Suite 310
Telephone: (610)660-8840 (530)-335-5451
City: Bala Cynwyd State: PA Zip: 19004
Primary Material Use: Natural Filler
Date of Preparation: 11/05/08 by: Dicalite Minerals Corp./Dicaperl Minerals Inc.
2. COMPOSITION-INGREDIENT INFORMATION
INGREDIENT NAME CAS NUMBER % PEL/TLV
Diatomaceous Earth (DE) 61790-53-2 100 See Below
Quartz 14808-60-7 (< 2%)
Respirable Quartz, ACGIH 0.025mg/M3
3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Appearance: White to off-white, no specific odor.
OSHA Regulations Status: OSHA 29CFR 1910.1200
Potential Health Effects: See section 11 Toxocological information.
Primary Entry Routes: See below
Eyes: Temporary irritation or inflammation
Skin: May cause dryness with continued exposure.
Ingestion: Not considered harmful in small amounts, but mouth,throat and stomach
irritation may occur.
Chronic Health Effects: This product may contain crystalline silica (CS), which is classified as a hazard by
inhalation.Long term inhalation of respirable crystalline silica dusts in excess of the TLV
(threshold limit value), over a prolonged period may cause a non-cancerous lung disease
(silicosis). Inhalation of respirable crystalline silica has been classified as carcinogenic
(Group1) byIARC, a unit of the World Health Organization. Respirable crystalline silica is
listed by the NTP as a known human carcinogen.
Conditions aggravated by Upper respiratory and lung disease such as bronchitis, emphysema,and exposure
pre-existing conditions: asthma.
4. FIRST AID MEASURES
Eyes: Do not rub eyes. Flush eyes with copious amounts of water to remove any dust particles.Consult a
physician if irritation persists.
Inhalation: Remove from dusty area; drink water to clear throat; blow nose to evacuate dust.
Skin Contact: Use moisturizing lotions if dryness occurs.
Skin Absorption: NA
Ingestion: Drink copious amounts of water to reduce bulk and dryness effects.
DICALITE NATURAL DE MSDS PAGE 2
5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Flash Point(Method): Nonflammable
NFPA Flammable/Combustible N/A
Flammable Limits: N/A
Liquid Classification: N/A
Extinguishing Media: N/A
Auto-Ignition Temperature: N/A
Unusual Fire or Explosion Hazards : None
Special FireFightingProcedures: None
6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Personal Precautions Use proper PPE (See section 8)
Environmental Precautions No significant environmental impact
Containment and Cleanup Clean up material with vacuum equipped with HEPA filter. Use
water as dust suppressant if necessary.
7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
Handling Minimize dust generation and accumlation. Avoid contact with eyes. Avoid
breathing dust. Repair or dispose of broken bags immediately.
Storage Keep away from hydrofluoric acid. Keep dry, and away from odors.
8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Goggles: The use safety eyewear to protect from dusts is recommended.
Gloves: May use gloves to protect overly-sensitive skin.
Respirator: Use NIOSH approved respirators to protect against silicosis producing dusts.
For dust concentrations:<10x PEL, use an N95 quarter or half mask respirator;
<50X PEL, use a full face respirator equipped with N95 filters; <200X PEL, use a powered air
purifying respirator (positive pressure) with N95 filters; for dust concentrations >200X the
PEL use a type C, supplied air respirator (continuous flow, positive pressure), with a full face
piece.
Ventilation: Use adequate exhaust ventilation and/or dust collection to keep dust levels
below TLV.
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance and Odor: White to off white powder; odorless.
Boiling Point: N/A Evaporation Rate ( = 1): N/A
Vapor Pressure: N/A Specific Gravity (water = 1): 2.3
Water Solubility (%): Negligible Melting Point: N/A
Vapor DensityAir=1): N/A % Volatile by Volume: NONE
pH (10% solution) 5-10
10. STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
Material is an inorganic mineral. Material is stable. Hazardous polymerization cannot occur.
Physical Hazards: Material not reactive
Conditions to Avoid: None in prescribed use.
Incompatibilities: Hydrofluoric Acid (HF).
Hazardous Decomposition Products: None
11.TOXOCOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Summary: This product may contain crystalline silica (CS), which is classified as a hazard by inhalation.. Long term
inhalation of respirable crystalline silica dusts in excess of the TLV (threshold limit value), over a prolonged period may
cause a non-cancerous lung disease (silicosis). Inhalation of respirable crystalline silica has been classified as
carcinogenic (Group1) by IARC, a unit of the World Health Organization. Respirable crystalline silica is listed by the NTP
as a known human carcinogen.
DICALITE NATURAL DE MSDS PAGE 3
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Naturally occurring mineral. Normally considered inert in the environment. If contaminated, evaluate according to all
applicable Federal, State, and Local laws and regulations.
Will not biodegrade, bioaccumulation unlikely.
13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Waste Disposal: Material is non-hazardous by RCRA definition (40 CFR 61)
Dispose of in accordance with applicable, Federal, State and Local laws and regulations.
Packaging Disposal: Dispose of in accordance with applicable, Federal, State and Local laws and regulations.
14.TRANSPORATION INFORMATION
U.S.D.O.T. Proper Shipping Name: Earth, Diatomaceous,crude or ground
Shipping class 55 (no restrictions).
Hazard Classification: Not Classified
Reportable Quantities: N/A
UN (United Nations), NA (North American) Number: N/A
15. REGULATORY INFORMATION
D.O.T. Proper Shipping Name: Earth, Diatomaceous Earth, crude or ground
D.O.T. Hazard Classification: Not Classified
UN, NA Number: Not Applicable
RCRA: This material (as a product) is not defined as a hazardous waste under RCRA
40CFR Part 261.
TSCA: This material is listed in the TSCA inventory but is not otherwise regulated by
TSCA
CERCLA: Material not reportable under CERCLA. Comply with Local Requirements.
RQ=Not Applicable
California Proposition 65: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause
cancer.
SARA Title III: Not Listed
NTP: Crystalline silica in respirable size, in industrial and occupational settings
is classified by the NTP as a carcinogen.
16. OTHER INFORMATION
As of the date of preparation and or revision of this document, the foregoing information is believed to be accurate and is
provided in good faith to comply with applicable Federal and State law(s). However, no warranty, representation, or
guaranty, express or implied with respect to this information or it's completeness is intended or given. Customer users of
silica must comply with all applicable health and safety laws, regulations and orders, including OSHA hazardous
Communication standards.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Thats pretty good stuff you have there..I read through it and noticed the date is from 1999 and this little tidbit 
"Diatomaceous earth has been tested as a whole and evaluated as a Group 3 carcinogen by IARC. A Group 3 listing indicates that diatomaceous earth is *not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans*, since definitive conclusions cannot be drawn from the research conducted to date. *Therefore, there is no requirement under the HCS to state a definitive finding of carcinogenicity on the label or MSDS for diatomaceous earth *products containing less that 1% crystalline silica. However, the principle of "one positive study" applies here as well, and the results of any study conducted in accordance with scientific principles which shows statistical significance of carcinogenicity resulting from exposures to this product must be included for discussion on the MSDS. This enforcement policy does not apply to products containing greater than 1% crystalline silica, and cancels and supersedes all prior interpretations on this issue." 

Admittedly there is Freshwater DE [what DE36 is] and there is Saltwater DE. One grade is suitable for use as a garden insecticide (crystalline silica content is around 0.36% to 1.12%) and is usually approved by both the EPA and the FDA and The other grade is sold by swimming pool suppliers (crystalline silica content is close to 60%) as a filtering agent.

The study and MSDS both say Diatomacous Earth as a whole ie (Fresh and Salt water)..I will say this gives alot more credibility to your argument in my mind..As far as what I have read about the product it is considered as the "safe" alternative to harsh chemicals for wormer. Now for kicks and giggles lets read the MSDS on baby powder...lets see what the Goverment says about that stuff.

http://www.reade.com/Products/Minerals_and_Ores/diatomaceous_earth.html


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I will continue to use food grade DE responsibly. All it takes is a little common sense. If you're going to apply it to a large area such as an outdoor flypen, do it in the morning when there is a little dew on the ground so that the DE will settle and not be blown around by the birds. If you're applying it indoors to the lower layer of your deep litter, wear a mask like any person should do during long periods in their loft. Fanciers exposed to pigeons MIGHT develop pigeon fanciers lung, doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of my birds.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Get a fecal test to determine if the pigeons carry worms

If yes, then use a proper dewormer and redo the fecal test to ascertain there are no more worms

Keep the loft free from external souls like rodents, take care that feed and water has minimal chances for mixing with fecals.

Quarantine new pigeons (atleast 14 days), deworm them before introducing to existing flock (repeat dose to new pigeons after 10 days - 12 days)

Run a regular deworming schedule twice in a year (some parasites co-exist with pigeons, or will be too difficult to clean 100% in a big flock, deworming once every six months help to contain them to permissible limits)

Life is simple, don't make it complicated


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The thing is that tests don't always show that there are worms, even when there are. Treating them twice a year for worms is a good practice, I think. And switching back and forth between wormers every few times is important. But if you keep a good worming schedule with your birds, then I see no reason to worm them at a month old, unless for some reason, you believe them to have worms.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

The MSDS also says it is not hazardous when ingested. Point of fact, many livestock operations use it, many of the best pigeon flyers around use it, it is effective at what it is supposed to do. Use responsibly and you will be fine. Now if ptras doesn't think he can use it in the way its designed its probably best that he doesn't use it and instead turns to some chemicals to get the job done.



For the original post, I worm each bird as I wean it and I treat it for lice/mites as well as vaccinating it. If you look up CBS and Rick Mardis online they have a video of the process they go through when weaning youngbirds, very informative and I think shows everybody how and what they should be doing when weaning their birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Matt, that is a pretty big place. The video on poxing your birds was something else. You guys may want to check out the sight. Worth a look and lots of info. The link is 
http://www.cbspigeon.com/VTCBS/index.html


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Yep it is quite the operation, and since they are selling and buying so many birds I am sure that they are very careful with the health of all the pigeons, it may be a bit overwhelming for a new fancier, and some of the stuff may not be called for in a small family loft but hey, if you want top notch healthy birds there is the outline for it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well thanks for the info. I'll go back and check it out more. Nice to collect different ideas and ways of doing things.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> The MSDS also says it is not hazardous when ingested. Point of fact, many livestock operations use it, many of the best pigeon flyers around use it, it is effective at what it is supposed to do. Use responsibly and you will be fine. Now if ptras doesn't think he can use it in the way its designed its probably best that he doesn't use it and instead turns to some chemicals to get the job done.


Bah...I can't be bothered...


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

The information Ptras shared makes sense. Nowhere in there does it have a direct injury or death from using the product as directed. The MSDS does not seperate "Food" Grade from "Pool" Grade..one is beneficial and one is toxic..anyone can read up on this item at this link and make their own opinion. http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html
I stand by my recommendation for DE. I have birds from the west coast, central USA, from New York to central Florida all in my "holding" loft and Aviary and they are all Healthy and I would say worm free.


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