# Carnidazol VS Metronidazole for Trichomoniasis



## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Hi there!

I have a dove with trichomoniasis - she's not doing super great, she closes her eyes often, not very energetic, doesn't eat but I force feed her.

I took her to the vet and she's meant to get a daily dose of Flagyl (Metronidazole) for 5 days, but I've heard from some pigeon expert friends that I should use Pantrix (Carnidazol) instead because it's way better. 

Unfortunately I couldn't find any information on that and my vet didn't know Pantrix so she got Flagyl. She got her first dose just now, 0.26 ml a day.

I wanted to ask, which one do you prefer? Is it a known thing that one works better than the other?

Thank you!


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## Hyacinth (12 mo ago)

Hello there, my two doves had trichomoniasis when I got them at the start of this year. The vet prescribed Metronidazole (Flagyl), which I gave them via syringe daily for 7 days, and when I took them back to the vet after that, he checked and they were all clear. So the Metronidazole definitely worked for them.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

What is the dosage you are giving? How much mg? I've read that Spartrix (Carnidazole) is a better option, but we don't get that in our country. 5 days treatment is a bit short, you might have to do 7 to 10 days. Can you see the yellow growths in her throat? I think if you don't see improvement after 5 days, try to get Spartrix.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Marina B said:


> What is the dosage you are giving? How much mg? I've read that Spartrix (Carnidazole) is a better option, but we don't get that in our country. 5 days treatment is a bit short, you might have to do 7 to 10 days. Can you see the yellow growths in her throat? I think if you don't see improvement after 5 days, try to get Spartrix.


I give 0.26 ml daily - she weighs 130 grams. Yes, yellow growth is visible. it's been 2 days now, she still has a lot of mucus and breathes very heavily / looks like she constantly swallows. I'm a bit worried because I've heard so much how Carnidazole is way better. Is it possible to change to Carnidazole tonight and stop the Flagyl treatment?


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Hyacinth said:


> Hello there, my two doves had trichomoniasis when I got them at the start of this year. The vet prescribed Metronidazole (Flagyl), which I gave them via syringe daily for 7 days, and when I took them back to the vet after that, he checked and they were all clear. So the Metronidazole definitely worked for them.


how bad were they? my dove has yellow growth inside the throat, she has a lot of mucus, she constantly swallows and seems to breathe a bit heavy (not with open beak, but I see her chest lift when she breathes).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

sinlia said:


> I give 0.26 ml daily - she weighs 130 grams. Yes, yellow growth is visible. it's been 2 days now, she still has a lot of mucus and breathes very heavily / looks like she constantly swallows. I'm a bit worried because I've heard so much how Carnidazole is way better. Is it possible to change to Carnidazole tonight and stop the Flagyl treatment?


Yes you can. Some canker strains are resistant to some meds, so you can change. Normally the dosage for metro is 10 mg per 100 gr birdweight. You don't know how much mg he is receiving?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, I am used to treat canker with carnidazole. 

Based on my own experience it usually works well (even in these last days we treated and released a youngster with canker). 
I like it also because it is very safe for birds (even if birds are treated with 32 times the proper recommended dose, birds don't die). 
I have never used metrodinazole but I read that it could have strong side effects. In my experience I have never seen side effects with spartrix. 









PetCoach - Ask a Vet Online 24/7


Veterinarians and other pet experts are standing by to answer all your health, nutrition and behavior questions! Chat live now about your dog, cat, or any other pet.




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Have you noticed if the growths have started to cover the breathing hole?

If you feel comfortable in doing that and if your dove allows you to do that (I know that doves hate being handled so don't do that if she seems too stressed and agitated) you can apply (with a small q-tip) some lemon juice on the growths. 
I'm also used to apply povidone iodine as additional canker treatment. If you want to give a look at the method here I explained everything about it (but, as I said, don't do that if your bird gets too agitated, scared and stressed) :









What to do if I *suspect* I have stopped canker...


Hi all. I have a bird which I thought might have canker. I gave her Ronsec for 10 days (i.e 5 tablets). Some symptoms disappeared or improved after about 5-7 days but for the rest of the treatment her condition did not change much so I stopped the treatment. It's been around 2 weeks since then...




www.pigeons.biz


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Hi, I am used to treat canker with carnidazole.
> 
> Based on my own experience it usually works well (even in these last days we treated and released a youngster with canker).
> I like it also because it is very safe for birds (even if birds are treated with 32 times the proper recommended dose, birds don't die).
> ...


Thank you so much for the tips! So I think I will switch to carbidazole tonight - what dose do you recommend? She weighs 130 Grams. I have the pills and someone said half a pill daily should be fine.
I
The growth don’t cover her breathing holes, but they are visible. 

Today I was quite happy with her, she was a bit more active and even ate some grains herself! I will continue to feed her some Harrison though. I still notice some difficulties breathing and a lot of swallowing


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Marina B said:


> Yes you can. Some canker strains are resistant to some meds, so you can change. Normally the dosage for metro is 10 mg per 100 gr birdweight. You don't know how much mg he is receiving?


I’m not sure what mg it is, my vet always fills the meds in a little bottle only with the name. But she said it’s quite a strong dose. I think she’s been a bit better today, she was more active, she ate some grains herself but she still has some breathing difficulties and mucus. Would you still recommend switching to carnidazole tonight and if yes would half a pill be appropriate? Thank you!!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If you see improvement, stick to the meds you are using now. Check inside her beak every day (easier with a flashlight). If you see the growths getting smaller, then the meds are working. Side effects of metro if getting overdosed will show as neurological issues. 

We don't get carnidazole in our country, so can't give advice reg the dosage.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Marina B said:


> If you see improvement, stick to the meds you are using now. Check inside her beak every day (easier with a flashlight). If you see the growths getting smaller, then the meds are working. Side effects of metro if getting overdosed will show as neurological issues.
> 
> We don't get carnidazole in our country, so can't give advice reg the dosage.


Okay, I will continue the recommended 5 days then. We don’t get it either in our country but I have friends who work with a lot of rescue pigeons and order it online. But their half a pill was for pigeons and the Dove is a bit smaller. Anyways, I will continue with The other one. Thank you!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

sinlia said:


> Thank you so much for the tips! So I think I will switch to carbidazole tonight - what dose do you recommend? She weighs 130 Grams. I have the pills and someone said half a pill daily should be fine.
> I
> The growth don’t cover her breathing holes, but they are visible.
> 
> Today I was quite happy with her, she was a bit more active and even ate some grains herself! I will continue to feed her some Harrison though. I still notice some difficulties breathing and a lot of swallowing





sinlia said:


> Okay, I will continue the recommended 5 days then. We don’t get it either in our country but I have friends who work with a lot of rescue pigeons and order it online. But their half a pill was for pigeons and the Dove is a bit smaller. Anyways, I will continue with The other one. Thank you!


You're welcome.

Agree, as you have started metrodinazole treatment and as she is improving (which is a good sign) I would continue too to give her the same med.

Spartrix directions for use say to give a whole tablet to adult pigeons and half a tablet to young pigeons (even if usually I give a whole tablet even to young pigeons as suggested also here on PT).

Adult doves are definitely smaller than adult pigeons so I think that half a tablet is ok.
I used many times spartrix for pigeons but only once for doves and I gave too half a tablet.

Anyway, in this case I would continue with metrodinazole.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Agree, as you have started metrodinazole treatment and as she is improving (which is a good sign) I would continue too to give her the same med.
> 
> ...


Two things, first, I think I might have a problem, I think the vet only gave me 4 days of Flagyl treatment. I have no idea how that could have happened  They always fill the doses in small bottles but I just realised that there should be two doses left but it doesn't look like two. It's one and maybe a little bit. It wouldn't be a problem but I'm on vacation, 3 hours from home and it's weekend so I don't know if I can find someone to prescribe more. In that case, would it be okay to start with half a pill of carnidazole on day 5? I have the pills with me in case the flagyl didn't work.

Also to explain the story, the dove (her name is Simone btw) is one of the doves that has been coming to my lemon tree for a while. However, she was the one who wouldn't fly away when I come outside and we even got to the point that she would let me touch her feathers. Obviously now I'm wondering if she was just sick and not feeling so well but she also seems quite young, maybe she got used to me a little? She would sit in the trees for hours and come a couple of times a day and I would always talk to her.

on Wednesday, the day before I was going on vacation, I saw her sitting in the tree and she didn't react to me so I climbed up and grabbed her. So the only option was for me to take her because unfortunately there aren't any places here in Portugal that I would trust.

Here is a video of her before she was very sick: Loom | Free Screen & Video Recording Software


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If you can find a petshop that sells aquarium equipment: Try to get Fishzole. It's the same thing as metro and always good to have extra at home just for in case. Give him about 15 mg once a day.

The carnidazole: Yes, if you can't get metro, continue with that. But he is so small, give 1/4 of a tablet.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

This is an old thread about spartrix dosage, it can help you to decide about dosage:









Spartrix dosage confusion?


Hi I have a young woodpigeon approx 4 week's old, he has canker right at the back of the throat but his airway is okay. This morning I gave him one Spartrix tablet (10mg carnidazole), I've been applying lemon juice to try and shrink the lesions. I had difficulty tube feeding this morning but...




www.pigeons.biz





Our member wrote : "Just small addition - allways give whole tablet no matter young, old, small or big.
Spartrix is safe for birds and overdose in pigeons is on 600 mg. 10 mg is safe even for babies" .

As I wrote earlier carnidazole is very safe for birds. I attach an avian formulary where they say:

"Birds did not develop any signs of toxicity even when treated with 640 mg/kg (32 times
the therapeutic dose)".

I also attach a pic of directions for use (I'm sorry, it's in French language).

Following advices given here on PT I am used to give a whole tablet even to young pigeons. I have never seen any side effects.

I watched the video and she seems an adult (she has the necklace. The beak seems dark in color like the one of an adult). Female adult (because of the weight).
Of course, I can't tell for sure her age (I mean I can't tell if she is a young adult just developed or a bit older) but probably young.

Regarding dove dosage I gave half a tablet to an adult male dove.

Here is a link about drugs dosage.
For collared dove they say "5mg or 10mg if infected"






Birds – Irish Wildlife Matters







irishwildlifematters.ie





Have you asked for an opinion about dosage for doves to your rescue friends?


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## Hyacinth (12 mo ago)

sinlia said:


> how bad were they? my dove has yellow growth inside the throat, she has a lot of mucus, she constantly swallows and seems to breathe a bit heavy (not with open beak, but I see her chest lift when she breathes).


The vet assessed my doves’ case of the illness as not very bad. I never checked for growths, as I was really just taking them for a first check-up after bringing them home from the breeder. But I didn’t notice any breathing difficulties. All I noticed was that once they had finished the treatment, they were able to ingest bigger seeds. They hadn’t been displaying any Sick Bird signs, so it can’t have been a bad case. So yeah, perhaps the Metro wouldn’t have been as effective if they’d been badly afflicted.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> This is an old thread about spartrix dosage, it can help you to decide about dosage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think she is pretty young, yes. Probably a young adult. My friends said half a pill. I will give her that tonight because I ran out of Metro - today it should be the last day of metro. But honestly she’s doing really great, ate by herself, seems almost normal again but still has some growth in her throat so I will continue with 7 days of half a pill of pantrix. Do you think that’s okay? Thanks


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Glad to hear that she is doing really great!!!

Yes, I think half a pill is ok, it's the dosage I used too. 

Do you mean 7 days in total (4 days of metro plus 3 days of spartrix) or other 7 days of spartrix in addition to the 4 days of metro?


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Glad to hear that she is doing really great!!!
> 
> Yes, I think half a pill is ok, it's the dosage I used too.
> 
> Do you mean 7 days in total (4 days of metro plus 3 days of spartrix) or other 7 days of spartrix in addition to the 4 days of metro?


I’m not sure, how long am I supposed to do it? She really seems very active, so will be 3 days of spartix enough if all the white parts are gone? Should I then keep her for a couple more days to see if she really is okay and then release?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes, I would give it for three days and see if all growths are gone. 
If yes, I would keep her for some more days, maybe a week (just to be sure...). During this time you can give her vitamins to help her to get stronger before releasing her back in the garden.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Yes, I would give it for three days and see if all growths are gone.
> If yes, I would keep her for some more days, maybe a week (just to be sure...). During this time you can give her vitamins to help her to get stronger before releasing her back in the garden.


So yesterday was the third day of Spantrix, she seems to be doing great! I also noticed some loose canker parts, I guess they started to fall off? So just to be sure, today I will not give her anything but I will keep her for another few days to make sure everything is gone? Thank you!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

sinlia said:


> So yesterday was the third day of Spantrix, she seems to be doing great! I also noticed some loose canker parts, I guess they started to fall off? So just to be sure, today I will not give her anything but I will keep her for another few days to make sure everything is gone? Thank you!


What a great news! 

Yes, keep her for a few more days before releasing her. Just to be sure that everything is ok! 

Great job 👍☺!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi! How is Simone doing? Did you release her back in the garden?


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Hi! How is Simone doing? Did you release her back in the garden?


She is doing great! She’s cooing now every morning. I haven’t released her because her feces changed a bit, it’s more liquid than it was previously and a bit green. Today I’m dropping it off at the vet to get it tested and wait until I have the results… so if everything is okay she will be released. She’s very keen to go so I hope everything is good!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Let us know the results of test!
I hope too that everything is ok!

Maybe it's just a bit of stress (added to meds). Try some probiotics, they could help in case of intestinal flora disorder originated by stress

Keep us updated!


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Let us know the results of test!
> I hope too that everything is ok!
> 
> Maybe it's just a bit of stress (added to meds). Try some probiotics, they could help in case of intestinal flora disorder originated by stress
> ...


I will! I think I should get them today or tomorrow…


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

sinlia said:


> I will! I think I should get them today or tomorrow…


OK, keep us updated as soon as you get them!


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

I will! Do you think it’s okay if I put a ring on her? I was planning to do that so I can recognize her better. I was wondering if there is anything bad about it like danger of getting stuck or something. But I’ve noticed most people put rings on the pigeons they’ve rescued & released…


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Before covid I bought some plastic clip pigeon rings but I have never used them so honestly I don't know if there could be any potential danger or discomfort.

Just to be sure you could try to put one on her while she is still with you. This way you will be able to monitor her and see if you notice any issue (like getting stuck somewhere, cuts, blood circulation problems, etc). 

When I bought them there were different sizes available, choose the right one. 

Let us know about the results of test.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

So the dove tested positive for Cestodes - She gets treatment but will need to stay for two more weeks because the second dose is after 2 weeks


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Colombina said:


> Before covid I bought some plastic clip pigeon rings but I have never used them so honestly I don't know if there could be any potential danger or discomfort.
> 
> Just to be sure you could try to put one on her while she is still with you. This way you will be able to monitor her and see if you notice any issue (like getting stuck somewhere, cuts, blood circulation problems, etc).
> 
> ...


Regarding the rings, the ones I got seem way too big for her. She's wearing it now but I will take it off before I release her. I will see if I can find smaller ones or just not put one on....


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

sinlia said:


> So the dove tested positive for Cestodes - She gets treatment but will need to stay for two more weeks because the second dose is after 2 weeks





sinlia said:


> Regarding the rings, the ones I got seem way too big for her. She's wearing it now but I will take it off before I release her. I will see if I can find smaller ones or just not put one on....


Fortunately you did the test! Thanks to your diligence she will be completely healthy when you will release her!
Btw, if you have a product for external parasites I would treat her before releasing her. 

Of course, as the ring is not the right size take it off. 

Keep us updated.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Hey there!

I have a funny update for you. Yesterday I was talking to a friend who I would definitely call a pigeon expert, she's rescued many pigeons and doves and usually gives me advice, but she's had a stressful life recently which is why I went on this forum so I wouldn't bother her.

We caught up with things and I told her about the dove and how funny the story was, that she was so friendly compared to the other doves and would sit in my tree for hours. Also, how lucky it was that I found her sick in the tree one day before I went on vacation.

She loves doves so she asked me if it was a laughing dove or a collared dove? We used German words but I think these are the correct English words for it. I didn't even know there was a difference but after learning about it I was sure she is a laughing dove.

My friend explained me that if she is a laughing dove she's not meant to be out there, that they are usually hold as pets because they are very drawn to humans and maybe also they are just not common where I live? I live in the city center in Lisbon, Portugal and even having doves around here is a bit weird. I've been feeding them for almost over a year now and I'v never seem them anywhere else in the city. They are also never on the ground like pigeons.

Then I connected the dots, because Simone (that's how I called her) was always coming to just stay in my tree for hours and watch us. The other doves would come to eat and then leave. Simone would let me get very close and not be afraid, the others fly away as soon as they see me. Also, now that I know the difference of the sounds they make I noticed that the others are collared doves while Simone as the typical laughing dove coo....

The hole time I thought me handling her meant stress for her so I tried to not touch her a lot, but yesterday I wanted to test it and it seems like she's tame?! I took her out in a room and she would just lay down in my hand, I scratched her ears and she leaned into it. Here is a video: Loom | Free Screen & Video Recording Software

I honestly don#t know where she's coming from, if she was a pet she would have had a ring? Also it's very unusual for people in Portugal to have pigeons or doves as a pet. I'm pretty shocked but it's also so magical, but I don't think she is releasable? Please let me know your opinion. Right now I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the differences of doves but I was told that a "real" wild dove would never let me handle her like that.

Thank you!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

She looks very tame and domesticated. Most birds kept in captivity does not get ringed, only racing pigeons. Please don't release her, rather keep her. She looks happy and content lying like that.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes, there are many different doves. Times ago I read a lot about them because I was curious but honestly it's not very easy to distinguish them...😅.

Your friend is maybe talking about "Streptopelia decaocto" (the collared doves that usually live in our cities) and "Streptopelia roseogrisea risoria" (the domesticated collared doves available in different colors)?
From what I understood (if I'm not wrong... 🙄) the main difference is the song (one of my vets has them and effectively they sing in a different way). Online they say that there are even other small differences (for example tail feathers).
Give a look at this forum (it's in French language but you can watch the pics) so you can compare Simone with the birds in the pics:









Différences entre "Turque" et "Rieuse"


Bonjour ! La tourterelle que l'on voit dans la nature, qui ressemble à la tourterelle domestique, est une espèce bien distincte ! La tourterelle dite "Turque" (




elevagetourterelles.actifforum.com





This is another resource "Atlas of doves" but it's in Italian language:





__





Atlante delle Tortore: Tortora dal collare orientale


Tortora dal collare orientale - Streptopelia decaocto L., 1838: Origine e distribuzione, caratteristiche morfologiche, biologia ed allevamento




www.agraria.org





That said, in all cases she seems very sweet and tame (as you said maybe she was a pet and accidentally escaped from an open window... Who knows her story...). I would adopt her 😁.


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## sinlia (4 mo ago)

Thank you! So after comparing the tail feathers and her song she's definitely a "laughing dove" - Spilopelia senegalensis - at least that's how I categorised her with the help of google. I'm so confused by all the different kinds. She hasn't done the "laugh" but the typical coo that they do before or after it, not the coo that collared doves do?! When they came to my tree I thought they were all the same, but now I realised they have a different song compared to Simone. Maybe she was just following them and then found my tree.

Today I spend some more time with her and tried to bond more but she's really tame, she even sat on my shoulder, she's not afraid at all. So she will stay with me, releasing her would be horrible and even if I would do that she would probably just sit in the tree all the time. I really like her, I did from the moment she came to my tree. So maybe she purposely chose her new home? 😁


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm very glad to hear that you decided to adopt her 😁! Probably you are right, she chose her new home!!!

Yes, as I said it seems very complicated to distinguish and recognize all the different kinds of doves 🤔🙄... I have never seen laughing doves here but from pics I saw online it seems that they don't have a necklace..? If I remember well in one of your old videos (the one on tree) I saw the necklace on Simone? I remember that I read in an Italian forum about hybrids, I mean doves born from different types of doves... 🤔

In all cases, the most important thing is that you found each other 😁!!!


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