# Sick? pigeon, strange feathers...



## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

Hello, I hope you can help me... For the last couple of days we have noticed a small pigeon sitting on a railing. Upon closer inspection we saw that his flight and tail feathers were just spikes. It's hard to explain but what they look like is this.... picture holding up a flight feather, now about an inch from the base is all normal, covered with feathers but the rest of the feather is bare, just the structure, no feathers have grown on it. Now I don't have any experience with baby's so I'm not sure if this is normal. His tail feathers are in the same condition. The rest of this pigeon seems ok, has feathers that are grown and look normal. He seems to have down on his back but I may be mistaken. Last night the rain and fireworks got so bad it scared him off his railing so we scooped him up and brought him home. I put him in a large cardboard box, fed him wild seed and bread and left some water and grit in his box. He ate more then I have ever seen a bird eat last night. So I guess that's a good sign. I really didn't want to bring him home due to the fact that I have a pigeon here already and I am afraid of her contracting any disease. Like I said, the feral bird is in a box with a screen on top so they are seperated. I also put a full spectrum bulb on him this morning. 

What should we do with him? Is her just a fledgling? Can I release him and when? Is his "condition" contagious to my other bird or pet squirrel? Any help will greatly be appreciated. Thank you, Chad


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't suppose you've got a digital camera and can post a picture?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I have seen pictures in a book of feathers that have lost everything but the main quill but your description makes me wonder if it's a nestling. Does the "down" that you're describing look like yellow hairs?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can go here and look at sequential pictures of a homing pigeon from egg to adulthood to see if this fellow matches anywhere along the way:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Pidgey


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok, I just looked at all of those pics and he doesn't resemble any of the condition I am trying to discribe... No, I don't yet have a camera, waiting on Ebay... I wish I could describe his feathers better to you so you could understand how strange this looks... So basicly the whole structure is intact but no feathers on the quills.... Could he of been stripped of the feathers on both sides of his body by a cat or something? I use to have parrots and when they are little there eyes are all black... Is this true in pigeons as his are orange.... he does look very small yet the bird in those pics seemed to have what I would call healthy feathers. How about the contagious thing or can't you tell yet?

I have to step out for about an hour but I will check right back.... Chad


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

NO..............




Pidgey said:


> I have seen pictures in a book of feathers that have lost everything but the main quill but your description makes me wonder if it's a nestling. Does the "down" that you're describing look like yellow hairs?
> 
> Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

phillychad said:


> Hello, I hope you can help me... For the last couple of days we have noticed a small pigeon sitting on a railing.
> * *Upon closer inspection we saw that his flight and tail feathers were just spikes.*
> It's hard to explain but what they look like is this.... *picture holding up a flight feather, now about an inch from the base is all normal, covered with feathers but the rest of the feather is bare, just the structure, no feathers have grown on it. *
> 
> ...


Thank you for bringing in the pij.  

* Just a thought, he might have a bad case of mites. I had a pigeon brought to me quite some time ago with the same description. I fanned out his wings & what feathers were left were riddled with little pin holes, as were the remaining tail feathers, representing a mite invasion. 


** It wouldn't be safe to release him until you have established exactly what's going on & his feathers have all grown back.

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, so the soft stuff of the feathers is gone except the quills. Either he's got a bad case of some kind of feather-eating bug, he had a severe nutritional deficiency at the time of feather formation, he's got a genetic disorder, he got exposed to fire (not too likely) or something else fairly weird. Yes, I'd keep him isolated from the others and try to get a really strong magnifier to look at the feathers to see if there are any bugs eating them.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Cindy,

Did you use a Pyrethrin-based product like this one:

http://www.thepetonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=44448

...for that one or something else?

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chad,

It could be a condition called Pipey Feathers. This is when the feather takes time to unfold from the feather sheath, so there can be a little bit of feather at the tip but the rest is still enclosed in the sheath which looks pretty much like the shaft.

That would usually happen with fledgelings rather than adult birds. If your pigeon has yellow down and squeaks with hunger or fear then he is a fledgeling.

There is another condition called porcupine feathers which looks similar but does not correct itself.

Neither condition is caused by disease or parasites. 

I have a picture of a dove with pipey tail feathers but at the stage that I took the photo all the feathers were completely wrapped in the sheath. I will see if I took any when the feather was partially unfolded.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is a photo of Pipey Feathers from "Fit to Win" by Dr Wym Peters.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

And this is one of my dove with the pipey tail feathers before any part of the feather emerged:


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

You mentioned he has orange eyes. This makes me think it is an adult. The feather problem could well be mites. In any event, he needs to stay with you until they are as they should be.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi there,
Since you mention that this bird is small, but appears to be adult I am wondering if it might be a ringneck dove. When two "silky" doves are allowed to breed, sometimes the resulting young have a condition called "extreme silky" that sounds like what you are describing with the feathers. Does the bird look like the one in the attached photo?

(Photo is from the following page, which has more info on the subject)
http://www.ringneckdove.com/Wilmer's%20WebPage/oddities.htm


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Since you mention that this bird is small, but appears to be adult I am wondering if it might be a ringneck dove.


Or a fledgeling collared dove, their eyes are a deep orange. But Chad's own pigeon is a king flyer which would make another pigeon look small.

BTW I was wrong in thinking that pipey feathers only affect fledgelings, according to Dr Wym Peters it can happen in new or moulted feathers. What I don't understand is, whether the cause is parasitical or otherwise, how an adult pigeon could keep flying until so many of its feathers, including the flight feathers, were non functional.

Cynthia


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

I am going to examine the feathers more closely, but I do not have a magnafying glass....

All of his other feathers are intact....it just seems to be affecting his flights and tail...upon further exam. I would have to say it looks more like the pipey pics, like I said before the feathers seem fine until about half way up, then all you see is the main shoot and the quills comming off of that. They are vey sharp and pointy...

He is definately a pigeon, maybe he does appear small due to the fact that we always see our white king who we are going to probably cook this thanksgiving cause she is so large! That was a joke.... we love her, but she does look tasty...ha ha ha...

He doesn't make "baby" sounds but he will flap at us and give us a little growl when we get close..

As far as my king being in danger.... will everything be cool if I keep our guest in the box? It is large with timothy hey on the bottom, screnn on top, daylight on him, food, water, grit ect.

can anyone suggest how I can go about posting a pic untill i get my camera?? I have a MAC... chad


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Plop it on a scanner bed  (joke). Can you do the cell phone pic download? I don't do that but it's possible (not on my budget though  ). 
To attach a picture or any file, just scroll down the post page to the additional options area and go from there.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Chad, the process is pretty much the same for posting pictures whether 
PC or Mac (I have both), but without a digital camera, you would need 
scanning capabilities to create the file on the desktop and then upload to
PT. 

I would lose the hay at the bottom of the cage, and go w/newspaper. Put in
many layers and then everyday when you clean, all you have to do is lift off
the top layer(s) to clean. 

Most pet stores carry a product like Scalex for spraying the bird's feathers (Pyrethrin-based). I would give both of the birds a treatment w/Scalex or the like. I usually use a cut off sock over the head to act as a hood and keep the spray away from the eyes and nares. Spray under the wings/rump and I also get the 'top' side as well though some folks stop there. Keeping them in separate living accomodations is a good idea and hanging on to the bird until things are sorted out is likewise a good idea. If you wash your hands between handling the birds and they aren't sharing utensils/living quarters, and you also give a treatment for mites you should be fine. The mite treatment will also address any possibility of passing something to one
another through common vectors.

This is a link to a single post which has some pictures of a bird w/some
severe feather damage and it came to my mind when you were trying to 
describe the feather condition:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=208531&postcount=73

Do any of the pictures being posted for you by members resemble the condition you are trying to describe?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a "How To" link from the Resource Section on uploading and posting pictures @ PT:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17782

fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Cindy,
> 
> Did you use a Pyrethrin-based product like this one:
> 
> ...


Hey Pidgey,
At the time the folks here recommended 'Sevin Dust Powder' (It seems nowadays other products are suggested). I picked some up from the garden dept. at Wal Mart, dusted the little guy & kept him until his feathers grew back.

He did wonderfully & was released. *Somewhere* rolleyes: ) I have pictures of when I received him & released him. I will try to find them.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually, the only reason I don't like the powder is basically the same whether
a bird or cat or dog. The powder continues to be airborne after the dusting
whereas the spray does not. 

However, the garden product, Sevin, is now in a spray format and can be 
purchased at Home Depot. Dr. Brian Speers recommended using the Sevin
spray in fact as an ectoparasitical treatment when he saw Diesel for Avianpox.

fp


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

FP....that's basicly what we are dealing with but his condition is much worse...the damage starts about an inch up, so basicly his wings look like spikes... I will ditch the hay for newspaper, I am going to go to a couple of pet shops now to see if they have that spray...


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

FP..... so if this is what we are dealing with then we are just looking at a mite infestation? I can't see any bugs on him but then again I don't have magnification.... If I go to PetCo is there any name brands I should look for or would anything work as long as it kills mites? How about that stuff posted above from wal-mart.... I live real close to one... then again, who doesn't in the U.S. ?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It sounds like the reverse of pipey feathers, then, with the damage starting at the top of the feather?

Cynthia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, you are basically looking for either the Pyrethrin-based spray such
as the link Pidgey posted or Scalex which is carried at the Petco out
here or the garden product known by the name Sevin which is a carbaryl based product. The bird is also going to have to have some good nutrition as well, we'll start from here though.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

For the carbaryl based product, it's probably best to stick w/the brand name
Sevin, as the concentration is known in this procuct to be safe w/pets. Other
products in the garden section may vary whereas w/the Pyrethrin-based products in pet stores, we know they are intended for use w/pets, jmo.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

They can get this if raised or living next to wire mesh or similar...where, backing up against it, the quills pass through fine, but all the various side parts of their long Tail and Wing Feathers get stripped off after a while...

This when bad enough can effectively prevent them from flying more than to a desk top or so...so they will have trouble evading predators, and trouble flying to forrage or graze...

So, if it is from this, or, from something else, either way, she needs to be kept safe and cared for untill she had grown new replacement Feathers, so she can fly well enough then to be able to survive.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

Thank you! FP and everyone else who helped us thus far. I am back from PetCo and bought a spray called Scalex and also picked up a powder named VitaFlight. How should I apply the spray.....mentioned above says something about a sock to cover the head, should I saturate the bird? Also, is it a good idea to spray our girl king flyer? I guess after we hopefully get this feather problem taken care of you all can reccommend ways to get some vitamins in him/her. I also have prime on hand. Thank you...... Chad


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I don't think you need to saturate the bird--there should be some kind of instructions on the bottle--but you should keep it from getting directly in the bird's eyes or face (that's what the sock is for).

Just out of curiosity, do the tip ends of the primary flight feathers have the little feather parts sticking out like a paintbrush or are they completely bare? With that one deal, you can take your fingernails and artificially preen the tubes around the feather shafts off and the two soft sides of the feather will unfold. If they're just not there anymore, that won't work, of course.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

No need to saturate. Put the 'half sock' over the head, spray under each wing and the rump. I also do the back side of the wings, tail and back. It's a pump
spray and usually one pump action w/a full bottle in those areas is plenty. You
should do your other bird as well. You should also do the living areas and allow
for dry time and fumes to clear before returning them to their cages.

Getting vitamins and a good health program for your birds will help to ward off
health problems down the road, here's a link to one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5760

from this section w/many more informative topics:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

As far as vitamins go, the two that I have are just put in their water and given that way. Hope this helps.

fp


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Well, I don't think you need to saturate the bird--there should be some kind of instructions on the bottle--but you should keep it from getting directly in the bird's eyes or face (that's what the sock is for).
> 
> Just out of curiosity, do the tip ends of the primary flight feathers have the little feather parts sticking out like a paintbrush or are they completely bare? With that one deal, you can take your fingernails and artificially preen the tubes around the feather shafts off and the two soft sides of the feather will unfold. If they're just not there anymore, that won't work, of course.
> 
> Pidgey


No, there is no little feathers sticking out of the tops of the primary Flts. they are just spikes..... I wish I had my camera, waiting on Ebay... yes, the P.F.feathers are there and have normal looking feather growth at the base to an inch up, the rest, 4 or so inches, is completly bare.... I would say there is 6 "spikes on each side of the bird....and also the tail has the same condition, just a little better....


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

I am going to do the "treatment" now.... how long should we expect to see some improvement? Also, is there anything that I should be doing in reguards to her being re-released? In other words, do I have to avoid as much as possible human contact ect.? Would it be a better idea to take her "pen" outside when the weather improves? (it's been raining) My whole fear for this guy was the fact that he was sitting on this railing for a couple of days and we were afraid that the cats would get him. What do you think his chances are? Once again, thank you all!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, normally he's not going to improve until those feathers are replaced in the late summer or fall molt (I don't know when it happens up there). So, he's not going to be able to fly for months, actually. Other than that (provided it's only mites and you get those with this treatment) he'll be fine albeit flightless. Personally, I don't see a need to limit your contact.

Pidgey


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

I guess since were looking at a time frame of months that I should invest in a cage? Our other bird has the flight of the house, I know sounds crazy but we pick up the poop! How about him staying indoors? Is that a problem? I do have a sort of balcony, I live in the city so I have a bathroom window above a garage that I could set things out on... the roof that is... Will keeping him confined to a cage cause other problems?

We sprayed him with the mite spray, it doesn't seem like enough, I only did what you recommened, few sprays here and there, should I do another treatment and when?

TY


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

phillychad said:


> I am going to do the "treatment" now.... how long should we expect to see some improvement? Also, is there anything that I should be doing in reguards to her being re-released? In other words, do I have to avoid as much as possible human contact ect.? Would it be a better idea to take her "pen" outside when the weather improves? (it's been raining) My whole fear for this guy was the fact that he was sitting on this railing for a couple of days and we were afraid that the cats would get him. What do you think his chances are? Once again, thank you all!


phillychad, how many feathers are we talking about, anyway, in total?? Unfortunately, you won't see improvement as mentioned until the moult, but 
you won't see more deterioration either which would happen w/mites left
untreated. You should continue w/treatments while the bird is there and also
the bird's living area. If you put the pen outside, it needs to be quarter inch
mesh so that no predators can't get inside to the bird. Maggie's correct that
the bird shouldn't be released until the feathers are as they should be. Well,
about handling the bird, you need to do what you need to do...sometimes a bond happens between the bird and rescuer, sometimes the bird is pretty
clear about wanting to get back to the feral life. 

fp


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## phillychad (Jan 24, 2007)

FP... We are talking about 6 primary flight feathers on each side. Also, the tail is pretty bad with numerous "bad" feathers. The problem is that I couldn't stand to see him in the box any longer so I have let him sit on the window sill in the kitchen. He seem's to want to go to my bird and be with her. This isn't good as I am afraid he will transfer a "problem" to her. So I am really at a loss. I will continue to keep and treat him and basicly see what happens as far as him going back into the wild. If that's what he wants, then he can go as soon as he is better. Any other ideas would greatly be appreciated! Chad


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you can speed the deal up by actually pulling some of these feathers at a time and causing them to grow back much faster. You might be able to reduce the amount of time that he's grounded down to a month that way. You need to ask some of the other folks how to do that.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

phillychad, you should probably start with the tail feathers, they require less
experience than the flights. You can pull out 2-3 feathers a day without really
making an enemy or creating undo hardship on the bird. I generally start w/the
worst of the feathers and work my way back to the base of the shaft where it meets the body and firmly grasp and give a slow deep pull. Have some white flour handy in case there is a problem w/bleeding, but to tell you the truth, I've
not had any especially w/tail feathers. They will grow back in 4-6 weeks this 
way instead of having to wait for the moult. Thanks for rescuing this one,
as this feathering will make this bird very vulnerable to hawk/predator attacks.

fp


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Here I go butting in on someone else's thread again, but I have a related question...(sorry phillychad - but hopefully you'll find this helpful too...)

Is there a supplement or particular food that will help with healthy feather replacement growth? I have 2 rescues now with feather issues. One with bald patches that are most likely from heavy mite infestation. The other is missing all but 2 little tailfeathers.  (I'm guessing predator attack since the bird appears otherwise in tip-top form)

I know it just takes time to replace missing feathers but I'm wondering if there's a supplement that will ensure that the birds' resources are not depleted in these extreme cases. Tried searching this forum but didn't turn up anything specific...

phillychad - I have had success before with removing clipped flights so they grow back in sooner. Just make sure to grip close to the base of the feather and only pull one at a time. Sometimes a slight twist as you pull helps to dislodge them. (to clarify - I did not clip the flights - they were clipped when I got the bird and I wanted them to grow back in normally asap)


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have seen at Petco and Petsmart special fortified seeds for moulting birds. They have them for all birds and for the pigeons I would buy the ones for cockatiels and other small hookbills.
I never tried them but I know the clients at the clinic loved them.

Reti


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Thank you Reti!
I will look for those. My poor little pidgies have lots of feathers to grow back.


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