# Is this canker?



## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have two pigeons that have the same problem. I diagnosed it as canker and have given the birds one tablet per day of Ronidazole (Ridzol) 10% which I purchased from Foy's. I have done this for six days. The directions called for one tablet per day for five days and in extreme cases, for seven days.

The problem in both birds is twice are bad now, as when I started. I am now thinking that the problem is not canker or the pills would have surely worked, or at least stopped the pregression of the "growths. Both birds are in cages seperated from all other birds.

They growths are not stringy. They are off white or yellowish. They are on both the roof of the mouths and the bottomes of the mouths, but not outside the mouth. Their eyes look good.

Can someone tell me what this problem is, from my pics and descriptions? Here are two pics.


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

It looks like "Sinus canker" to me, Ronidazole should stop the pregression but wont remove the nodules, Some vets perform "Sinus Flush" to clear them.



> Sometimes canker organisms can invade the sinuses through the slot in the roof of the mouth and form a canker nodule here.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would switch medications and try metronidazole. In addition,you really need to treat all your birds because just because you don't see the canker in the others doesn't mean it isn't there.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I emailed pics and a description to someone who should know, and he said it appears to be pigeon pox. He said that it is not treatable and should run its course.

Anyone disagree with this?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

There are two options:
Canker – who did not respond to your first treatment.
Pox – which I also strongly suspect as this is to far out in the mouth for canker. In this case this is wet form of pox. Indeed it needs to run its course, but:
You can treat secondary infections, which are dangerous because of compromised immune system (Baytril, Ampicilin, etc.)
You can use Iodine solution with water and swab gently liaison. Put Iodine in drinking water to stop infection from spreading.
Make sure that you don’t have mosquitoes or any other biting insects in the loft because they are carrier of the virus too.
Try to boost immune system of all your birds (garlic, ACV, etc.)


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Try to boost immune system of all your birds (garlic, ACV, etc.)


Echinasia also helps.


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

It occurred to me it might be mucosal pox but the growths don't look like they are part of tissue (as seen in wet pox). 

One of my pigeons suffered from sinus canker long time ago it showed similar symptom (nodules growing from the slot at the roof of the mouth), i thought it was wet pox so i left it and after a month or so this's what i got (a tumor-like under its eye).​


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Are the growths in the slot?


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

conditionfreak said:


> They growths are not stringy. They are off white or yellowish. They are on both the roof of the mouths and the *bottomes *of the mouths, but not outside the mouth. *Their eyes look good.
> *


Hmm.. in my case There was nothing at the bottom of the mouth, And one eye was watery even before the swelling occurred, also the nostril ceres (wattles) were inflamed (washed out /no white powder on them).​


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I was thinking pox from reading your first post. Ronidazole 10% 'ain't too shabby' and then the subsequent progression after 6 days of treatment. Goldenseal is also very good on mucous membrane tissue and it also has antibacterial/microbial activity. A tea or solution of it to help dry the nodules
is helpful, and it would be fine for them to drink some of it as well. There may
be more that just isn't visible.
If the birds start to ignore their food or start getting light, augment the self feedings and boost the protein to help w/the repair to the damaged tissue.

fp


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

I also wanted to add this; the throat of my pigeon was reddened and when the swelling occured the droppings were like the pic i've attached (doesn't it look like 'stuffed grape leaves' with some 'sauce'?) .

To be on the safe side switch the drug as 'charis' suggested, if it worked then good for you/bird, if not then you didn't loose anything (except your money!)​


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## pouletchalet (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm a wildlife rehabber in CA and we've seen a lot of Pox and Canker this year. There is wet pox and a dry pox. It looks like wet pox to me. We treat for secondary wound infection and let it run it's course. Wet pox is a little worse to deal with than dry and it can occur in the mouth, throat, eyes and anything mucosal or "wet". I would try a TMS antibiotic in the water for the wounds and support with optimal diet and suppliments, and keep warm and in isolation. It's very contagious!

It could be the sinus canker too however.
We use Spartrix/Flagyl regime for all of our suspect trich/canker cases with good results. I've heard that there are some resistant strains starting to crop up. It would'nt hurt to try Spartrix and then complete the round with Flagyl for everyone suspicious. We also see crop stasis and GI issues from this so we also treat with Albon and Nystatin when this developes. Trich is also contagious so isolate and treat everyone!
We do a quick swab wet mount to view under the microscope to see if it is indeed Trich, which is a fairly large flaggelated "critter". A vet could do this easily and quickly in the office or maybe you could contact a wildlife rescue who might have a microscope available at their center. 

Well this is my 2 cents worth based on what we've encountered this season and is similar to the excellent advice of others here. 
Good luck!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

pouletchalet said:


> I'm a wildlife rehabber in CA and we've seen a lot of Pox and Canker this year. There is wet pox and a dry pox. It looks like wet pox to me. We treat for secondary wound infection and let it run it's course. Wet pox is a little worse to deal with than dry and it can occur in the mouth, throat, eyes and anything mucosal or "wet". I would try a TMS antibiotic in the water for the wounds and support with optimal diet and suppliments, and keep warm and in isolation. It's very contagious!
> 
> It could be the sinus canker too however.
> We use Spartrix/Flagyl regime for all of our suspect trich/canker cases with good results. I've heard that there are some resistant strains starting to crop up. It would'nt hurt to try Spartrix and then complete the round with Flagyl for everyone suspicious. We also see crop stasis and GI issues from this so we also treat with Albon and Nystatin when this developes. Trich is also contagious so isolate and treat everyone!
> ...


Good advise.


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