# Single mother pigeon stopping feeding?



## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Hi,

I'm new here, and new to pigeons. We have a large farmhouse and someone gave us 4 pigeons from another farm to save them (as the people there were going to dispose of them). These are called house pigeons, and are an Austrian/Bavarian variety. I have no clue what their official name would be. In any case, we built a smallish avary so they can do a little flying, and also wooden pigeon boxes that are traditional here. The pigeons are two males and two females. One male is dominant, the other just stays out of the way of everyone. The male paired with a white/brown female. However, he also services the brown female. He does nest building and caters to the white/brown helping sit on the eggs she lays, however.... The way the boxes are built, the pair keep throwing the eggs out after sitting on them for several days. They land on the ground and break. So, we built nest boxes, basically square with two inch sides, and we placed them inside the pigeon holes. This seemed to work, however only the brown female figured it out and laid two eggs in one of the nest boxes in a pigeon hole.

She has been a single mother the whole time. One of the chicks died the first day after hatching, but she's been raising the other chick just fine. Given we are new to this, no one explained to us initially (despite me pestering everyone with knowledge for info) that if we do not use bowls or if enough bedding is not in those wooden boxes, the squab will get a splayed leg. Which he now has. Also, in the mean time, I noticed today that he is screaming all the time for food, but she's not going into feed him and instead is breeding Mr. Macho Infidelity . 

So, first I've now read about how to deal with the splayed leg, so I went into the box and picked up the chick and checked for bendability, I can actually get him to sit up for short periods on two legs by gently bending up the splayed one for him. I also put a bunch of fresh new hay in the nest box. Of course, now I'm worried that because I touched him, she'll ignore him completely. And, she appears to be wandering around checking out the other boxes for laying. In the mean time, Mr. Macho Infedelity noticed the fresh hay, and is trying to get in there and steal if from the little guy. I put fresh hay at the bottom of the avary so now he can get some from there instead. Brown Single Mother doesn't drive him away from the chick (cause she is mating him) but does drive the others away furiously. I'm afraid though, he has no bond to that chick and will kill it?

Will the mother now just stop feeding him? I've heard that usually the males are the ones to complete the feeding after the chicks are a certain age. This guy has some feathers, is pretty big now, but is far from weaning age. Should I give him seed, and sand and water?

Thanks!

K


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Do you have reasonable idea of how many days old the surviving baby is? If not too sure, do check this set of pics showing day 1 to fledging as a guide:

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

If the mother is not defending the young one against the dominant male it could be that the baby is the result of her mating with him, I guess. Or do you know which male is responsible? It is quite usual for a pair to be starting another nest before the current young are fledged. 

A way to tell if the young one is being fed would be check his crop maybe three or four times a day to see if it is flat and empty, or squishy with food. If you are sure he is not getting fed, I would suggest taking him in to complete the raising. 

The splayed leg is the other problem of course. It may need some corrective action by now. Although you may be able to bring the legs into position, it is quite possible this may not entirely fix the problem. I will find a good reference to correcting it.

It would be as well to bring the bird in so a good examination can be done, and give water (dipping beak below nostrils in a small pot of water may work if he uderstands how to drink) just for a start - they can easily get dehydrated.

John


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are some links on splayed leg and how to repair it. You need to do that ASAP, or the baby will be crippled when he grows up, and will not be able to walk. If you have problems, and don't understand, come back and ask. Also, this is why you should probably get her a mate. You are right in that the dominant male will not look at this baby as his own, and could very well hurt or kill it. She may very well not feed the baby, if she goes to start another nest. That is the fathers job at that point, but this bird won't take the responsibility, as he has his own mate. I would either mate her to another male, or switch out her eggs for fake ones, and not allow her to hatch any more. You will probably have to bring the baby in with you and finish feeding him and weaning him. Also, he would be safer, if the Momma isn't in the nest with him, or protecting him from the dominant male.

SPLAYED LEG TREATMENTS
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz
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http://www.parrotparrot.com/splay/
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http://www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
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http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz
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Have to scroll down a bit for the splayed leg part:

http://www.thecozynest.com/pictures.htm
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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

John, thank you for answering.

About his age, I do not know exactly, as I mentioned I am new to this, and now I see it is important to keep track. He's somewhere between two and three weeks, tending toward three weeks, I think. Also, I was a bit panicked you might say, first discovering what a splayed foot was, and then going to investigate him and worried the scent would put off the mother. However, I saw later this evening that she was in by him and fed him. This evening I went to check, just now, and she is outside of the box up on a roost higher up and not near the pigeon boxes. I guess he must be old enough to have enough heat himself? It is now about 11pm here, I do not know if I should disturb them. When I picked him up today, he was hot. In any case, the mother has not totally abandoned him, and I may be just a nervous first time breeder. We breed horses, so I am used to breeding, and in a much more complicated way. In any case, she no longer sits with him in the box, and leaves him to his own devices except I guess to feed him occassionally? Is this normal? Sorry to be so clueless, I haven't found a good pigeon breeding book here. And, years of horse breeding experience, I always try to prepare for everything. With the pigeons, I just thought they get on with it themselves. But, I see that isn't the case.

Best regards,
K


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Jay3,

Thanks for the reply. I think I have understood how to work to correct the legs. I will try in the am to do what is required. So far she is feeding him still, I did watch her the whole day, and she only fed him toward evening since the afternoon? With respect to raising him the rest myself, do you have a link to information on feeding and hand raising? Thank you for all the tips, and I appreciate any infos you can link me to, as I am learning.

Best,
K


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This is a starting point for hand feeding youngsters of various ages, updated over time

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/various-methods-to-feed-young-squabs-9682.html

Yes, he can regulate his own heat now. At his current age, he would not require a parent to be with him at all times. He would not require so many and frequent feedings as at first. Probably would now be 3 to 4 times only. 

Keep a good eye on the legs - plenty of material there from Jay3.

John


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

PS. Birds do not ignore their offspring just because you touched them. They may be bothered if you are always around the nest, but touching once in a while won't hurt.


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks John_D. Is there a recipe for formula? I live in the boonies in Austria, have no clue where I would be able to buy anything like that. We don't even have horse supplies nearby, except very minimal basics, for old-time farmers, if you get the drift. There must be some old-time mixtures pigeon breeders used? I mean, they've been bred long before the Dark Ages? 

Any way to post images, I'd love to know what the breed is we have?

Best,
K


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your handling him won't bother the Mom, as far as leaving your scent on him. You may have to supplement extra feedings, if she is only feeding once. Is it possible to post a picture of the baby? As John has mentioned, he should probably be fed 3 or 4 times daily, but only if the crop has emptied or nearly so.

You can also feed him frozen peas and corn, thawed out and warmed under warm running water. Never use a microwave, as sometimes the centers of the food you heat can be scalding hot. You don't want to burn his crop. Hold the bird on your lap, against your body. Gently open his beak and pop in a pea or corn to the back of his throat. Allow him to close his beak and swallow. If he spits it out, then put it back further. Do this till his crop feels soft and squishy, like a little pillow, but not hard.


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks Jay3, that's very good information, I appreciate it. Frozen peas and corn are easy to get. I will try to observe how often she is feeding him. It is not easy as I cannot be there the entire time. Maybe the mother is feeding him enough, he or she is pretty big and has grown alot. I just am new to this and so didn't know how often (for example we have swallows in the stall, and they have to feed their young constantly) making a comparison, I just figured she was slowly abandoning him, but from what John_D said, it seems fairly normal. I will check his crop and supplement him if necessary. In any case, this is all really good info so that I know what to do in future emergencies too. I took picture of the birds today, and will try to take one of him tomorrow and post it here. I do not know how to post images though?

Best,
K


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks Pawbla, that's a relief.

Best,
K


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Attachments, yes - if you go down past the reply box a little, there is a 'manage attachments' button. When in the attachments popup screen, browse to where the pics are on your PC, select what you want and click on upload. Pics are usually in JPG format (most are anyway with digital cam) and have to be maximum file size of 100kb, so you may need to do some image reduction/file size compression with your photo editor.

As for formula, Kaytee Exact for all baby birds or Tropicana hand rearing does tend to be from well stocked pet stores. Chick crumbs can be used, blended to a gloopy liquid state or even something like Readybrek (but don't know if that's available there). By now, the parent pigeons would be feeding a youngster much of the same food as she would eat (ie, seeds and grain) softened in the crop, so if you do end up having to help him out he may soon start to peck at seeds himself.

Hopefully others can come up with suitable other substitutes for the usual hand rearing formula foods, though the peas and corn will be a good start for him at his assumed age.

John


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Here's a try at getting an image to load. This is the mother, Dicke Berta (means Big Bertha) she's not so big now after having the baby, but she was a really big bird, maybe almost twice this weight before. The males are dark colored, so blackish, with green/red shimmering on their throats, and sometimes white patches. I will also try to attach a picture of the white/brown female which is called Lise (pronounced, Lee-Zay).

Best,
K


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Well, they came out just fine 

Bertha does look pretty fancy, but I know little about breeds (most of our pigeons are rescued ferals).

John


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Cool, glad I figured images out. I can post a baby picture in the morning, and maybe an image of the big male (he's hiding under the white/brown Lise in the box, you can see his face peeking out there. All that I have found here is that they are called, "House Pigeons" or "Clap Pigeons" because the flap their wings making a clapping sound to defend themselves (also while in flight). They basically, beat you with their wings. They are somewhat big, I think in comparison to umm...racing pigeons, or homing pigeons which are smaller. From what I have learned, these are a very ancient breed that were used as a meat source in Europe? Traditional Farm-house pigeon from Bavaria and Austria. I haven't a clue about whether that is correct or not. But, I would like to follow it up. We got them from an elderly gentleman who got them at an elderly farmhouse and the elderly farmer-lady who kept them. They may even be a preservation species, but finding out is hard here.

I'm sort of going on about the pigeons and am a bit off topic, sorry! 

Best,
K


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's okay, it was interesting. Glad you were able to post pictures. I'll look forward to seeing the pics of the baby.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Yeah, wing slapping is something pigeons are real good at 

Pigeon Karate Chops all round

John


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

OK, I took some pictures this morning. The first two are Lise, she throws her eggs out all the time. And, you can see a bit of Hansi behind her (the larger cock). And, here's baby with the splayed leg. I will work next to bind his legs. I need a helper to do it, and they will be here in an hour or so. He's quite heavy, and his other leg is having problems also under him due to the one leg being splayed.

Best,
K


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Lovely pattern on Lise - like the brown tail.

Yes, baby definitely needs you and your helper, and he's the right age for it now

John


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## austriancurls (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks so much for the compliments on Lise. I really like her coloring too and wish she would have a baby with Hansi, because I'm sure it would be pretty.

With respect to our little guy, we have now bound his legs. We didn't have a tape that I wanted to put against his skin? So, we took an elastic dressing bandage (that I had for a broken finger splint once) and cut a piece off, we folded it in half and then used a thinner electrical tape to tape the bandage in place. He kept trying to stretch that leg out afterwards and would flop on his side, taking his other leg with it. So, I piled up a hay in there so he is sitting atop a hay mound with a hole in the middle for his legs to go through, I folded his wings also, because the wing on the once side where the leg was splayed is stretched out all the time. He seems to be sitting ok now, and we will monitor him and correct him several times a day. The one foot that was not splayed, was tucked under, and he was also not using that foot. The claws were not stretched outward but curled. Any tips on all of this?

Thanks, all your advice is much appreciated.

I'm attaching images again.

Best,
K


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