# New Kitbox for our Rollers



## LittleJohn

Spent yesterday with my son building this double kit box for our rollers.


----------



## Skyeking

Those are nice, I like the "v" perches. Will this kitbox be enclosed within a bigger coop/loft?


----------



## LittleJohn

No I am finishing the stand for it today and it will be it's own stand alone pen just for the flyers.


----------



## Skyeking

I just can't get used to seeing such small living quarters (having homers myself) but I guess they are outside and flying alot too.

Are you using hardware cloth on the openings and putting a door over the traps?


----------



## LittleJohn

Hardware cloth just on the floor, and there is a door covering each trap.

It keeps them calm, and keeps them from wanting to breed all the time, they will get plenty of exercise, with daily flights and a well controlled diet.


----------



## Skyeking

LittleJohn said:


> Hardware cloth just on the floor, and there is a door covering each trap.
> 
> It keeps them calm, and keeps them from wanting to breed all the time, they will get plenty of exercise, with daily flights and a well controlled diet.


Thank you for your response, I appreciate it. So what are the hinged doors covered with, if I may ask?


----------



## Lovebirds

Trees Gray said:


> * I just can't get used to seeing such small living quarters* (having homers myself) but I guess they are outside and flying alot too.
> 
> Are you using hardware cloth on the openings and putting a door over the traps?


*I hear you Treesa.........me either.*


----------



## spirit wings

LittleJohn said:


> Hardware cloth just on the floor, and there is a door covering each trap.
> 
> It keeps them calm, and keeps them from wanting to breed all the time, they will get plenty of exercise, with daily flights and a well controlled diet.


I was wondering why they were kept in small quarters, now I know...do they live in there their whole life? if you wanted to breed I guess they would have to be in a breeding loft then. I wonder how long it takes for their eyes to adjust to the light when they are let out.


----------



## LittleJohn

I can only fly from about May until October. They will spend that part of the year in the kit boxes. My loft is where I keep my breeders, and the babies that are not ready to fly yet. During the winter I will move them into the loft, where the males and females will be seperated, as I have a split loft. It is actually bigger than it looks,each side is 4 feet tall 4 feet wide and 30 inches deep. I wont put more than 10-12 birds in a box at one time, and that is Max...I'll be starting with much less than that this year. Here is a picture of it up on the stand and ready for paint and shingles.


----------



## Big T

Just so I understand, Kit boxes are for rollers correct? Homers cannot use them because of their homing correct?


----------



## RodSD

LittleJohn,
Where is the exhaust vent? I see air coming from the bottom, but where would hot air leave out to? I also noticed that your kitbox was probably design for 11 bird team?

Big T,
I don't think so. Someone in the UK competed just using a rabbit hutch for his homers and won, too! He did that because he has those pigeon lung disease and wants a loft where he doesn't need to enter. Roller people use kit box because they want their rollers to be a kitter or fly as a group. You are developing a one-team group and you want these birds to associate "closeness" so you lock them close. They also believe that it calms the bird down and not waste energy--just like at night where they just stay on their perches and rest. Homing fanciers are the opposite. They want their birds to have more space. Honestly I don't know where they got their calculation for their square footage per bird thing.


----------



## LittleJohn

Exhaust vents on the sides of each box. I am not quite sure what the concern is for square footage of a kit box, not all pigeons are homers, nor do they all need 200 square feet per bird of roaming room, it almost sounds as if it is "such a bad thing" to keep 10 birds or however many in such "small" confines...but whatever. It is a different hobby than having homers, for sure.

I dont fly competition, nor do I intend to any time soon. I have 12 perches per box, and I doubt I will ever get 12 birds in a side at a time. I have rollers purely because I enjoy watching them fly. Thats about it really.


----------



## bigislerollers

Aloha LittleJohn,
You don't have to justify to anyone why you house your birds the way you do. As long as they are dry and have ample ventilation there should be no problem. I feel it's a lot more humane than racers who send out their birds several hundred miles and have them get lost and STARVE to DEATH. 
I raised approximately 80 young last year and didn't lose one. How many racers can say the same.


----------



## outcold00

bigislerollers said:


> Aloha LittleJohn,
> You don't have to justify to anyone why you house your birds the way you do. As long as they are dry and have ample ventilation there should be no problem. *I feel it's a lot more humane than racers who send out their birds several hundred miles and have them get lost and STARVE to DEATH*.
> I raised approximately 80 young last year and didn't lose one. How many racers can say the same.


I agree 100% I have a question, how do the birds in the kit box learn to trap when there is no aviary?


----------



## LittleJohn

Thanks BigIsleRollers, I just felt like I was being cornered, unjustifiably...due to a lack of understanding of the way we do things with our rolling pigeons, however in all it is educational for all really.....so it's all good.

In order to trap train them, they are placed in a wire pen on top of the kit box for several times...maybe for a week...several hours at a pop. Then I have a "contraption"....that I built, which is basically a cage that they can sit on top of the kit box, and then drop down on the trap and go in. We whistle and shake the feed can before we feed them, the old "Pavlov's Theory" , and then they know that when they hear the whistle and the can shaking that they will be fed....and they find their way into the trap and to the food. It only takes a handful of times for them to get the idea.


----------



## outcold00

Roller pigeons are amazing. I would love to watch a good performing kit of rollers. I grew up around highflyers and divers.


----------



## Lovebirds

LittleJohn said:


> I am not quite sure what the concern is for square footage of a kit box, not all pigeons are homers, nor do they all need 200 square feet per bird of roaming room, it almost sounds as if it is "such a bad thing" to keep 10 birds or however many in such "small" confines...but whatever. It is a different hobby than having homers, for sure.





bigislerollers said:


> Aloha LittleJohn,
> You don't have to justify to anyone why you house your birds the way you do. As long as they are dry and have ample ventilation there should be no problem. I feel it's a lot more humane than racers who send out their birds several hundred miles and have them get lost and STARVE to DEATH.
> I raised approximately 80 young last year and didn't lose one. How many racers can say the same.





outcold00 said:


> I agree 100%



Ok guys........let's just squash this before it gets started good. We all have our birds for whatever purpose and we're all pigeon lovers. 
The fact that you didn't loose any birds out of 80 is great. Can I say that I didn't loose any? Of course not. It's kinda hard to loose a bird that doesn't leave home.......but that's not what rollers do, right?
Homers and Rollers are two different breeds of pigeons and are bred to do two different things. 
I have questioned a couple of times about keeping rollers in such small spaces. I have gotten answers to my questions. Even after it was explained, I didn't say that I thought it was cruel or inhumane did I? I have said and did say in this thread that I still don't "get" the reason. I know what you told me and I know that most all Roller guys keep their birds this way, so it's not up to me to tell you it's "right" or "wrong".........and it's not up to YOU to tell me that I'm not treating MY birds humanely......
I think this is a conversation that we don't need to have. Lots of people do things with their birds that* I *don't agree with, but at the end of the day, they ARE taking care of their birds.......just not the way that* I *would take care of them, but it's not really any of my business as long as the birds aren't being hurt or tortured.
So, I think we should just leave it at that. Don't you? 
If we start putting those that don't "do what we do" down because of what they DO do, we're opening up a can of worms that we don't want to open.


----------



## LittleJohn

> If we start putting those that don't "do what we do" down because of what they DO do, we're opening up a can of worms that we don't want to open.


I totally agree. There are times when people say things with a keyboard that are often misinterpreted, and it happens. 

My point is only this, and no more...I take very good care of my birds.

A kit box is a tool, which allows roller enthusiasts to be able to train their birds to fly together, eat together, and be a team. When they are a team, then they perform together, and it is an incredible sight to watch.

There are people out there who raise pigeons for food, and I dont fault them for that, people who raise them to race...and hey if that's their thing...then it's all good. Some raise them just for show....just to look at, and that's fine too. 

The thing to remember is that we all have a common interest, even though we go about it differently....so look around and see how others are working with their birds, and there may just be a few things that can be learned from it. No reason for arguing about anything...no reason at all.


----------



## Lovebirds

LittleJohn said:


> I totally agree. There are times when people say things with a keyboard that are often misinterpreted, and it happens.
> 
> My point is only this, and no more...I take very good care of my birds.
> 
> A kit box is a tool, which allows roller enthusiasts to be able to train their birds to fly together, eat together, and be a team. When they are a team, then they perform together, and it is an incredible sight to watch.
> 
> There are people out there who raise pigeons for food, and I dont fault them for that, people who raise them to race...and hey if that's their thing...then it's all good. Some raise them just for show....just to look at, and that's fine too.
> 
> The thing to remember is that we all have a common interest, even though we go about it differently....so look around and see how others are working with their birds, and there may just be a few things that can be learned from it. No reason for arguing about anything...no reason at all.


Thanks LittleJohn..........I think this makes PT history.......the shortest "argument" ever........LOL..
Just kidding..........(I think)....


----------



## Big T

Being new to pigeons I might have an idea about space for homers and Rollers. Homers spend more time in the loft than rollers do in a kit box. This is because of the trap training. When homers are raced time is important and that time is when they trap into the loft. So using food homers are trained to fly around the loft a short time then trap into the loft to feed. Later they are released away from the loft but fly to and trap into the loft for time. Rollers are set free for most of the day and the kit box is mainly used for resting and sleeping. Also with homers you have old pairs that were gotten from another loft and used for breeding, these birds become prisoners and can never be released so they need more space in the loft to fly and be at home. Rollers do not have homing instinct so they can be trained with a new group and released into the open. 

This is only my educated guess, but I also agree with Renee, everyone at this site cares for their birds their way and it shows in their responses. I also like the differences for it is in trying new things and sharing those ideas that make the site a place for all of us to learn.


----------



## bigislerollers

Lovebirds said:


> Homers and Rollers are two different breeds of pigeons and are bred to do two different things.


Yes they are and they are housed differently because of it. If you "get" only one thing out of this, "get" this.



Lovebirds said:


> I have questioned a couple of times about keeping rollers in such small spaces. I have gotten answers to my questions. Even after it was explained, I didn't say that I thought it was cruel or inhumane did I? I have said and did say in this thread that I still don't "get" the reason.


Yes, and I have even expained it to you, others have also. If you still don't "get" it, then you probably never will. What *I* "get" is when someone post a picture of a roller kitbox and you *almost always* make the same comment. You don't *say* it's cruel or inhumane, you *imply* it every time you post that type of comments. What do you think someone new to the hobby thinks when they see your comments about the kitbox? Probably nothing good about the roller fancier. Think about it.

Renee, you are a very respected part of this great forum, and rightfully so. What you say carries a lot of weight to the old and new alike. 

Got a lot more I want to say but it won't change anything and doesn't really matter anyway. "Nuff said" ALOHA


----------



## Lovebirds

Big T said:


> *Rollers are set free for most of the day and the kit box is mainly used for resting and sleeping.* Also with homers you have old pairs that were gotten from another loft and used for breeding, these birds become prisoners and can never be released so they need more space in the loft to fly and be at home. Rollers do not have homing instinct so they can be trained with a new group and released into the open.
> 
> This is only my educated guess, but I also agree with Renee, everyone at this site cares for their birds their way and it shows in their responses. I also like the differences for it is in trying new things and sharing those ideas that make the site a place for all of us to learn.



*I don't THINK I've ever heard anyone say this before. *I was under the impression that Rollers go out, fly for an hour or whatever and then come back to their box. I know that high flyers and those type birds can fly for hours and hours and I believe that's what they're judged on? Time on the wing whereas rollers are judged by how many roll together in a kit and how "deep" they roll? I had no idea that they were out most of the day.
Here's what I asked back in April of last year.


Lovebirds said:


> I'm glad you posted a picture of this.
> Now I have a question. I asked it a long time ago and if I remember correctly, almost started world war III....
> Why do Rollers have to be kept in such a small space?


Here's what I got as a reply


bigislerollers said:


> Aloha Renee,
> 
> Roller fanciers keep their "kit" birds in these smaller "kit boxes" for several different reasons.
> Some want the birds to stay calm and quiet in the kitbox and not expend any energy flying around and to use all their energy in their performance when let out.
> Some believe that the birds "kit" (fly together) tighter, therefore giving better simultaneous performance.
> Some use *darkened* boxes to also help keep the birds quiet but also to keep the birds from pairing up. (If the birds start to breed in the kitboxes there is a possibility of a hen who is ready to lay an egg to injure herself while rolling.)
> Some also believe that the birds kept in the darkened kit box will have a more active performance when released.
> There are many other reasons for the smaller boxes. *The birds are flown daily or everyother day* so they get a lot of exercise and are healthy and don't seem to have any negative effects from living in close quarters.


So, with that said........I'm dropping the subject. I have nothing else to say about it all. 
I can promise you that I won't bring it up again..........actually I didn't bring it up this time....someone else did and I commented and it got me in trouble. 
Anyway......you guys do what you do and I'll do what I do and we'll just leave it at that.


----------



## LittleJohn

why cant we all just get along.....


----------



## garson

so when starting out. should you build a loft first or a kit box? when i was a kid we just kept them in big coops but they would breed like crazy. it drove my parents nuts..


----------



## RodSD

Kit box is use for a flying team. They let the birds fly about 1 hour or less during training and on competition. There is also a breeding loft where obviously they breed and can keep prisoners. Those are usually big like for homers.

I don't see any argument. I see discussion of things unfamiliar and different methodology. No one is saying someone is right or wrong.

As long as the birds are happy and healthy whom would I argue!


----------



## LUCKYT

Well put rod... Dave


----------



## ND Cooper

Littlejohn, I think it's a very good kit box!, The only thing that I can see wrong is the roof doesn't overhang enough.
Mine has 6" overhang on all sides, except the front, so I don't slip and bash my head on it.


----------



## LittleJohn

My next one will have more overhang for sure, I always seems to smack my head on the l brace that holds up the trap door.

LittleJohn


----------



## velo99

Nice boxes littlejohn. 
I just built a loft myself. So far so good. Its working out very nicely. 
You know the NBRC has an 11 bird competetion? 

v99


----------



## velo99

outcold00 said:


> Roller pigeons are amazing. I would love to watch a good performing kit of rollers. I grew up around highflyers and divers.


Lotsa good roller guys in MI. Should be easy to find a kit to watch.

v99


----------



## LittleJohn

> You know the NBRC has an 11 bird competetion?


Yeah, but I dont think I will have birds of competition quality for several years, and that's if everything works out. 

My Son and I will probably stay "backyard" fliers for a while, as we learn the ropes, possibly trying competition once we get the whole thing somewhat figured out.

LittleJohn


----------



## outcold00

velo99 said:


> Lotsa good roller guys in MI. Should be easy to find a kit to watch.
> 
> v99


Anyone you know in southeast MI?


----------



## velo99

let me know what town you live in and I`ll see what I can do.

v99


----------



## Skyeking

bigislerollers said:


> Aloha LittleJohn,
> You don't have to justify to anyone why you house your birds the way you do. As long as they are dry and have ample ventilation there should be no problem. (


Hi Dexter,

I appreciate your input and have great respect for you and your beautiful birds. I truly understand the reason for the size of their living quarters and it makes perfect sense, I myself am quite impressed with the flight of your birds.

My statement was merely that, that I can't get used to such living quarters, nothing more..... I'm sorry if it was taken the wrong way.


----------



## Big T

RodSD said:


> LittleJohn,
> Big T,
> I don't think so. Someone in the UK competed just using a rabbit hutch for his homers and won, too! He did that because he has those pigeon lung disease and wants a loft where he doesn't need to enter. Roller people use kit box because they want their rollers to be a kitter or fly as a group. You are developing a one-team group and you want these birds to associate "closeness" so you lock them close. They also believe that it calms the bird down and not waste energy--just like at night where they just stay on their perches and rest. Homing fanciers are the opposite. They want their birds to have more space. Honestly I don't know where they got their calculation for their square footage per bird thing.


LittleJohn,
I have Homers but was thinking that a kit box would be good for my young birds. This would keep them together, help them feel safe and separated from mean cocks. I could attach on the back side of the loft and fly them separate from the old birds until their wings get stronger. I never have more than four to eight at a time so the size of your kit box might be right for all the reasons you said. What do you think???

Tony


----------



## velo99

My kitboxes are 4`x5`x22". They are built into my loft. All the perches are on the back wall so I can see my birds.
A 4x4x3 kitbox is 48 cu feet. Cities that have an ordinance require 3 cubic feet per bird. that puts 16 legally in a average kitbox. Most have 18-22. Its not a terrible overcrowding issue. Just a little tight. 

yits
v99


----------



## confederatemule

I wish I could see the photobucket images.

I was trying to find the reason for a "kit box" in association with rollers. I found exactly what I was seeking in this thread.

Thanks.


----------



## Gabby

LittleJohn said:


> I can only fly from about May until October. They will spend that part of the year in the kit boxes. My loft is where I keep my breeders, and the babies that are not ready to fly yet. During the winter I will move them into the loft, where the males and females will be seperated, as I have a split loft. It is actually bigger than it looks,each side is 4 feet tall 4 feet wide and 30 inches deep. I wont put more than 10-12 birds in a box at one time, and that is Max...I'll be starting with much less than that this year. Here is a picture of it up on the stand and ready for paint and shingles.


Is there a problem getting them to home to a kid box versus the loft?


----------



## Gabby

Sorry, talk to text error. Kit box, not kid box.


----------

