# Birds being sold!!!!



## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Does any one notice that there are alot of birds being sold on auction sites from a certain strain or family. It gives me the impression that maybe that strain isn't so good therefore there are so many being offered and from so many diffeent people. 

I also notice that since Jim Gabler is coming back to the sport , the birds he used to fly or own are going back up in price. Some birds are even purchased from one site and resold on an other for profit. There are many that I have found but here's one for example.

The link below, the bird was bought on ipigeon and then sold on pigeon auction. I purchased a bird from breakway the same week it was sold not too long ago. 
http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=29829
http://www.pigeonauctions.com/lot.cfm?lotID=29935

Now link below show same seller bidding on same exact blood full sibling to one sold.
http://www.racingpigeonauction.com/Auction/XcAPViewItem.asp?ID=74999 

I've been seing a trend and now it looks like people are trying to benefit from it. My intentions example for the links above is only an example and not to discourage the seller/buyer. Just would like to get the PT members thoughts.

Tom


----------



## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

It's been going on since the beginning of the sport.
You may call them the celebrities of the sport. The question is do you buy ther product or not? It's a free market out there.


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Well the one he sold went for $235 and the one he is bidding on is only at $160 so basic economics. I would expect that Gablers birds are climing because he has done alright in some one lofts races this year. Also he added the Schellens pigeons to his families, I don't think he had them before. Would I buy them? No, I have had alot of them (still have quite a few pumping my good stuff) and so have my club members and nobody I know has had luck with them. Now, I know alot of people had luck in the past with the Super 73 birds so obviously somone has luck with them.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

warpaint said:


> Does any one notice that there are alot of birds being sold on auction sites from a certain strain or family. It gives me the impression that maybe that strain isn't so good therefore there are so many being offered and from so many diffeent people.
> 
> I also notice that since Jim Gabler is coming back to the sport , the birds he used to fly or own are going back up in price. Some birds are even purchased from one site and resold on an other for profit. There are many that I have found but here's one for example.
> 
> ...


For some people out there, the buying and selling is all part of the fun, and I assume part of their business model. Some will resell a bird within days, weeks or months, just like an automobile dealer. They may not produce any birds themselves, their loft is only used as a holding center until they are sold. Some remind me a lot like "Day Traders" a term applied to stock market type investments, where the asset is sometime only held for minutes or hours, and then resold. Typically with auctions, the buyers and sellers are unknown. I have suspected at times, that the both were one and the same, much like "Insider Trading". I would imagine such a business operation would work better on the slightly higher priced birds. Don't think you can buy a bird for $100 and sell it for 25% more and make a profit, what with shipping. Perhaps with a $1000 bird, if you can sell it for $1250, you can make it work. Someone who actually trades pigeons and makes money at it, would have to explain how such things work. My brother trades vintage toys and has made a decent six figure income for the last five years doing such things, ( http://www.the-collections.com/about_me.htm ) but pigeons don't seem ideal for such trading...IMHO.


----------



## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

IT was a coincidence that I saw the bird posted on the auction site because it was a bird I was going to bid on when it was on ipigeon. Now the one on ipigeon is being bid on by the same person which is pretty much the exact same bird that was sold. IT only makes it funny that when the birds are reposted for sale, the comments states that there are no room/space for the birds. Ironic or just dumb. If buyers take the time to research they may find out some useful information.

I don't know how someone could profit from this nor have time to do this but it was something that I wanted to share on the forum. I guess sometimes when you think you are getting a good deal, haha you really maybe just helping the seller out instead. I will just be more cautious when buying birds now.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

warpaint said:


> IT was a coincidence that I saw the bird posted on the auction site because it was a bird I was going to bid on when it was on ipigeon. Now the one on ipigeon is being bid on by the same person which is pretty much the exact same bird that was sold. IT only makes it funny that when the birds are reposted for sale, the comments states that there are no room/space for the birds. Ironic or just dumb. If buyers take the time to research they may find out some useful information.
> 
> I don't know how someone could profit from this nor have time to do this but it was something that I wanted to share on the forum. I guess sometimes when you think you are getting a good deal, haha you really maybe just helping the seller out instead. I will just be more cautious when buying birds now.


 
It is at times, a seedy Jungle out there. "Buyer Beware".....just like walking onto a used car lot. Are there some responsible and honorable sellers out there ? Sure, just like in the contracting business. But then there are also men like Tony Soprano, the TV character. 

One must use the same caution, common sense, and good judgement when buying a new water heater, furnace, kitchen or replacement windows also. I would not dismiss a bird, simply because perhaps some "smart" fancier saw a particular bird go on sale, and was able to purchase the bird or birds at ridiculously low prices. (Poor Auction Site) And now wants to sell it a market prices, on a different exchange. But, then he should be open and up front about it. Dishonesty is a sure sign of a crook. At least in my book. I recently acquired a World Class Import from a distressed seller. It seemed a bit less risky then the stock market. So if I had my choice, I would prefer to deal directly one on one, with the owner. And save both the owner and myself, the middleman's fees and charges.


----------



## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

It could be that the bird, when in hand, did not meet the expectations of the buyer. With only a pedigree and a picture to look at in an auction, you don't really know what a bird is until it's in your hands. We all have different ideas of what we want, and if a bird was bought and arrived at your loft, and didn't match what's in your head...then sell it. 

It doesn't have to be something bad. I can understand someone buying a bird from breeder A, then re-selling it a week later and buying the same type of bird again from breeder A. Just think how we can look at two nest mates and will pick one over thr other, based on a look or whatever. Same thing with buying and selling.

I would question more the guy who buys birds one year, then selling those birds the next year, and buying again. That would more likely mean they already tested the birds in the breeding loft, and they did not produce. 

If you're a regular breeder/flyer, you can't make money re-selling birds because the price you paid is likely more than someone willing to pay you. I have bought birds for $250-500 and can't get $50 for the offsprings.


----------



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I guess everyone has their own motives for doing things.


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

This isn't the first time he has done it! He bought one from Ken weyer and posted the Same bird on pigeonsauctions guess what though, the birds band was on a different leg lol and $50 less! Opps......


----------



## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Xueoo said:


> It could be that the bird, when in hand, did not meet the expectations of the buyer. With only a pedigree and a picture to look at in an auction, you don't really know what a bird is until it's in your hands. We all have different ideas of what we want, and if a bird was bought and arrived at your loft, and didn't match what's in your head...then sell it.
> 
> It doesn't have to be something bad. I can understand someone buying a bird from breeder A, then re-selling it a week later and buying the same type of bird again from breeder A. Just think how we can look at two nest mates and will pick one over thr other, based on a look or whatever. Same thing with buying and selling.
> 
> ...


I used the seller in the link provided in particular as an example because I've bought similar birds from same seller on ipigeon but this guy purchased a bunch of siblings and cousins. I can under stand if one bird when bought arrived and is not what it is expected of it to be is relisted for sale, but all of the birds bought being relisted for sale on another auction. Thats fishy. I was fortunate enough to notice this because of the previous purchase I made on an auction and saw that the exact same birds were being resold on another auction. That's why I said in a post above that it's just funny seeing him bid on another full siblings to birds he purchased and had recently sold. Because the bird on ipigeon that he is bidding on is one that I am interested. Thats why I posted the thread here for PT members intake.

Again this was an example I used. I do see another person doing this with the same family of birds as well, it maybe the same guy with a different user name. But I am pretty sure there's a bunch of people doing it. It's good to do some researching before you buy from a certain seller.


----------



## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> This isn't the first time he has done it! He bought one from Ken weyer and posted the Same bird on pigeonsauctions guess what though, the birds band was on a different leg lol and $50 less! Opps......


Wow, what a coincidence. The link was just an example I used because of the reoccurance of seeing birds resold especially after being bought from another site. 

There is another seller selling same birds as well but under a different name. Don't know if they are the same but the birds are definitely bought from same people on ipigeon and resold again on pigeon auction with similar comments.

It's just a heads up to watch out when buying birds on auction sites


----------



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Maybe he's trying to be the middle man?


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I must admit I am guilty of this. The reason I sold and am selling some of the birds is that I over bought. That is the Ebay in me (bbcdon-915 transactions-100% positive rating-10 years). I started the birds at a low price, as I wanted the people to enjoy the fun of a real auction. I took hits on the prices I received, as well like I did on some of my Ebay sells, but I take it in stride. I let the market forces decide the final outcome. I also have to admit that I was a stock day trader on mondays, one of my days off. Man was that a blast! So please do not think that I would buy a bird, and then see how it feels in the hand, and decide to sell it. I have no knowledge as to what a good bird feels like. I am a babe in the woods when it comes to judging birds. I follow the forum to increase my knowledge, as there is plenty of it here. I am still trying to decide how many birds to keep. I started off with the Skylake Sions, and then purchased some other well known names. I am keeping all of the Sions, as they were my first, and I am a sentimental old man. So after all of that, may each and everone of you have a merry and blessed Christmas.


----------



## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

There's no need to feel bad about re-selling a bird you don't like because it doesn't feel or look right to you. As long as the bird is healthy and you haven't bred some bad results from it, you might as well pass it along to somebody else who might like it. Remember...we all like different things. I like thin breasted birds that are a little deep and feel "skinny". I bet 90% of pigeon folks will throw those out. 

Also remember...there is no money in re-selling birds. Not if it's not your line of work, anyways. The auctions take out a percentage or fee to list/sell. That, and a no name seller...you'd be lucky to break even.


----------



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Personally, I think it's a hassle to buy and sell. I would prefer to do my homework first. I think the time used in the transactions would equate to the time invested in doing the homework before buying.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd much rather buy a bird that I get to look at, talk to the fancier, check out the loft, etc. before taking it home. Buying online...you never know what you're gonna get. Lots of lies and photoshopping out there.


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I did my homework as to the birds I purchased, as they were bought from reputable fanciers, such as: Skylake Sions-CA, 3-D Lofts-TX, Double T Lofts-TX, Al Porter-MN, Gold Coast Lofts-CA, Del Valle Lofts-FL, Pleasant Farms Loft-TX, Ken Weyer Loft-IN, OHF-TX. I understand Becky how you like to see how a bird looks and feels before you take it home, but when they are hundreds or thousands of miles away, that is not feasible for me. I make sure they are reputable, and then I look at the pedigree. I recently refrained from bidding on a bird up for auction which stated it was a son of "SENNA". I wasn't able to reach Chic Brooks of Hapyco Lofts before the auction ended. Chic told me it was not a son, but a grandson of "SENNA". Also, to make it clear, I do not buy birds just to turn around and sell them for a profit. I have taken a considerable loss on the ones I have sold. Like I said, I decided to down size, and someone else can benefit from it. I recently sold a young adult bird which was double inbred to "DREAM BOY", for $10! Needless to say, I paid MUCH more for the bird. Merry Xmas everyone.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You picked some good places to get birds  There are those I trust, and those I'd rather not deal with, whether they're trustworthy or not. I do agree that some really good birds are simply too far away to be able to see in person first.


Speaking of De Senna, who was it here that was keeping him and his mate before he passed? Was it Terry?


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Yes. Chic told me that he sent him and his mate to her down in southern California. I believe that he died first, and then she passed not long afterward.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yes, I had De Senna and Serena. Serena passed a couple of weeks after De Senna.

Terry


----------



## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

Well, from the look of the auction, the bird was bought buy ken christopher same as the one sold on the pigeon auction in the link. Strange how it all went.


----------

