# "Free bird" is hurt! (attacked i think)



## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Free bird is my not yet trained white homer. He got out by accident after the first day and a half at out loft. He has been out since monday and despite out efforts, we haddent been able to coax him back to the loft.

Today, we saw him wandering around the garage and we closed him in and got him. I noticed his wing was drooping, so i lifted it up and he has a wound the size of my thumbnail (well, thats how big the blood spot is) im sure its smaller than that. His other feathers look okay, just the wound under his wing.

We also noticed he probably has lice because theres little bugs crawling on him, they are tan and sort of elongated. We inspected the others and they have it too so im assuming the guy we got them from has it at his loft since we have only had them like 5 days. 

What should we do for the wound on his ribcage under his wing and what do we need for lice and can it be used on YBs? Should he stay in isolation or can he go back with the others?

Product reccomendations and wound care are appreciated. Thank you


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

How does the wound look like. If it was attacked by a cat you need to put him imediately on antibiotic. A picture would give us an idea. 
Is he flying? Is the dropping wing broken? Check the joints. It could be that the ribcage wound teared a muscle and that's why the wing is dropping (muscles are connected to each other).


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

I will try to get a pic and inspect the wing.... brb


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Any injured birds I have ....I immediately bring them inside and treat there injuries or condition and I would probably start Baytril which is a antibiotic , it gets difficult when you don't know what or how the injury came to be . I would initially use warm water and bath the wound .......I tend to use a lot of Iodene when treating wounds . If you feel a cat may be responsible " clavamox " ( human antibiotics are effective ) for treating such wounds as cat saliva is toxic to birds


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Duh .....I forgot

Lice & mites are pretty easy to treat , depending on how many birds you have there are plenty of sprays available which will treat the parasites , your neck of the woods may have lots of sprays and powders you can easily dust the birds with , hopefully some members from your part of the world can assist you there .

I'm so glad you finally caught your bird


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Checking to see if pix uploaded... 

Edit oops, guess not... hold on


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

after inspecting him, i found he has a wound on each side of his body (i posted a pic of each). it looks to me as if he got bit by a hooked beaked bird like a hawk or owl. one side is more of a puncture wound and the other side is more of a long cut. the puncture wound wing is the side that is drooping. it does not look super fresh. i think he was fine last night when he went to roost in the tree but we did see the owl that hangs out at the neighbors barn flying over our house last night. it doesnt look like a cat scratch, especially because i would think he would look all deshevled if he were attacked by a cat, it looks like a bird tried to grab hold of him and missed because his feathers look nice still, if it werent for his droopy wing, i would not have noticed the wounds.

hopefully the pix show the bugs on him... they appear to be lice, but i dont know what bird lice looks like... i just know i was a kid once... and well... we all get it as kids lol  anyway, they are tan with long thin rice shaped bodies with legs toward their heads. all our birds have it so i guess the guy where we got them has it in his loft because we have only had them a week. can i or my dogs or cat get the lice? i dont want him to bring it in the house because of it but he can go in the garage or shed.

please help "free bird", he looks so painful


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## HappyXD (Dec 2, 2011)

It looks pretty bad now you should try taking it to a vet and seeing what they suggest for it and to see if it's infected.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

see my last post for wound care 

yup, they are lice ........they easily trasnfered from bird to bird and even wild birds that come into contact or are able to get in your loft will transmit them , they are easily sorted out as suggested . The lice won't be a problem for you .

I would imagine he is a bit sore under that wing .......I would address the wound first .


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

What a beautiful white pigeon. 
You have to get him on antibiotic. It does look loke something pecked at him.Do you have Baytril available?
I would bandage him dropping wing even if it's not broken. It will help the muscle stay put and not feeling much pain. 
Wash his wounds with saline water ( i would boil the mixture). i f you do not have from the drugmart you can make your own. Apply antibiotic cream.
http://www.ehow.com/how_7649290_homemade-saline-solution.html


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Bird mites don't burrow under the skin of humans or dogs and they can't complete their life cycle with hosts other than birds.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Dima said:


> What a beautiful white pigeon.
> You have to get him on antibiotic. It does look loke something pecked at him.Do you have Baytril available?
> I would bandage him dropping wing even if it's not broken. It will help the muscle stay put and not feeling much pain.
> Wash his wounds with saline water ( i would boil the mixture). i f you do not have from the drugmart you can make your own. Apply antibiotic cream.
> http://www.ehow.com/how_7649290_homemade-saline-solution.html


the good thing about using an antiseptic cream is that a moist wound will heal better than a dry wound .


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

whytwings said:


> see my last post for wound care
> 
> yup, they are lice ........they easily trasnfered from bird to bird and even wild birds that come into contact or are able to get in your loft will transmit them , they are easily sorted out as suggested . The lice won't be a problem for you .
> 
> I would imagine he is a bit sore under that wing .......I would address the wound first .


i will be addressing the wound before the lice. i wish i didnt have to buy the medicine online, i dont feel super comfortable taking the time for it to arrive. i sent a pm to a local forum member to see if he knows where to get wound care stuff (and/or lice stuff). i hope something is available around here. ill try giving him a bath tomorrow. its 8:40 right now, id rather let him sun dry tomorrow.

wierd thing is that it doesnt look super fresh, i mean the blood is dry and the other side looks like it has begun healing, but i didnt notice him having a droopy wing until we caught him today. hes been around and hasnt been shy. he will get close to us. i would have noticed. could it be a wound thats a few days old and is just now getting infected or inflamed? or would the drooping happen immediately?


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> What a beautiful white pigeon.
> You have to get him on antibiotic. It does look loke something pecked at him.Do you have Baytril available?
> I would bandage him dropping wing even if it's not broken. It will help the muscle stay put and not feeling much pain.
> Wash his wounds with saline water ( i would boil the mixture). i f you do not have from the drugmart you can make your own. Apply antibiotic cream.
> http://www.ehow.com/how_7649290_homemade-saline-solution.html


thank you, i think hes pretty too 

does it matter what kind of wound creme i use? this may sound like a total noobie question, but do you mean like neosporin or a specific bird wound creme?

and i will buy some baytrill, i hope my local feed store carries it, i will check tomorrow. how do i bandage the wound? should i bandage it around both wings so they cant move or should i bandage the wound itself? theyre in a super awkward spot, on the ribs, right under the wings


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## Dunn (May 23, 2011)

you sould forget the online crap go to a vet near by they will have it the bird need to be looked at unless you have what you need there


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

If I had nothing else ........I would be happy to use *clavamox* or *Augumentin*......see if family or friends have some stored away in their medicine cabinet , you might strike it lucky and these can be used , how much is given will depend on what the mg is of the antibiotic.

Baytril will often require a script or some kinda consult with an appropriate qualified person , altho this could differ where you are .

good luck !


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dunn said:


> you sould forget the online crap go to a vet near by they will have it the bird need to be looked at unless you have what you need there


Of course the vet is the best option. But he needs to have a few hundred $$ savings.  And untill you get to the vet, what do you do, in general, you sit and watch it?
And the on line is not a crap, I wouldn't advise anything that i am not sure about it since i used it myself on my rescued pigeon.. His wounds were dry and the saline water solution worked very well and it cleared all the dry blood, with gentle constant tapping not rubbing on the wound.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dunn said:


> you sould forget the online crap go to a vet near by they will have it the bird need to be looked at unless you have what you need there


Okay, ill take him in. Thank you. I do have a vet who lives on my street, ill see if i can go to his office tomorrow. I just feel so bad because im sure i look like a HORRIBLE pet owner lately. My chihuahua cracked her tooth and it needed to be removed, my other dog had to get medicine for a newly discovered food allergy, my cat caught some wierd fungus from a rose bush, and now my pigeon is all *#[email protected]!% up because i accidentally let him out. Ive seen him so much lately, for some reason im almost embarrased to bring him in, but i will swallow my pride lol.

All these things are total flukes that just happened to occour all at once, but god i must look like a terrible pet owner.... i suppose if you look at it from a different perspective, i might look like a really good pet owner because i actually took them all in to be seen, lots of people dont.

My boyfriend and i were just discussing free birds permanent living situation. While he recovers, he will be missing the training time that all the other birds will be getting. Also, it is a possibility he might not fly again. Taking into account that we probably wont be using him for releases since he wont be trained like the other birds, and because he didnt really want to come back anyway when we accidentally let him out (hence how he earned his name free bird).... should he stay in the loft with the other birds or should we let him be an indoor bird? Would it be fair to him if hes the ONLY bird that doesnt get to fly? Would they pick on him if we put him back in the loft after being separated while he recooperates? I jist keep thinking how infair it would be for him if everyone else gets to go amd hes left alone, could be stressful i would think, with stress comes disease and feather picking ect.... what would you do?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

The pigeon i rescued doesn't fly, has a broken wing. He is a very happy pigeon and i faciliate that with advise from pigeon talk friends (who have birds with same situation or amputated wings). I have made special ladders for him and he can get anywhere he wants. One of my females (she can fly) fell in love with him and now they are mates.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> The pigeon i rescued doesn't fly, has a broken wing. He is a very happy pigeon and i faciliate that with advise from pigeon talk friends (who have birds with same situation or amputated wings). I have made special ladders for him and he can get anywhere he wants. One of my females (she can fly) fell in love with him and now they are mates.


Just goes to show, theres someone out there for everyone. Gimps need love too!  i worry about him now that hes injured. I dont know if the flock will accept him back. They tend to get pretty rough with each other at feeding time, i cant immagine what it would be like with a bird who theyll prolly see as a new comer when he finally goes back with his brother and sisters.

Since we got him back, and i am the reason he got out while untrained, we decided hes kind of a special bird. Especially where we saw him, he was comming from a field next door, so who knows how far he had to walk to come home, what determination!

EDIT: is he in the loft with everyone else? Do they ever pick on him?


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

You can go to RMC pigeon supply in San Mateo. They have all you need from antibiotics to lice problem. The website is under construction but the store it self is open for walk-in just like a supermarket.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> You can got to RMC pigeon supply in San Mateo. They have all you need from antibiotics to lice problem. The website is under construction but the store it sefl is open for walk-in just like a supermarket.


My boyfriend works in san jose, ill see if i can send him down there. Thank you


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

First of all i must say you have a bird with great homming ability, if after 1 day in of having him, he returned to you. Too bad if he will not be able to fly, but do not lose hope yet.

You will have to accomodate him according the the needs. 

My pigeons are not realeased as they are not homming or racing (mixed of rollers and racing pigeons) They are like a family to me and it would be painfull to lose any. They have food at all times so not much fight for it.

First time, after quarantine, when i introduced him to my " pets" i thought they will gang up on him. But it happened the opposite. They were scared to " death" of Bigboy , the new guy with dropping wing, and where he walked a open path was clearing for him and the tray with seeds was only for himself. First 3 days he had his own hiding place (his box with a cut out door) where he would watch and come out only to feed himself from the bowl of seeds provided by his nest. No pigeon attacked him up to present.They must know something is weird with him and do not dare. He gets in trouble when he goes where is not his nesting place, on the top shelves, but never bitten, kind of pigeon arguments /aggresion ( pecking from the distance or kung foo positions - wings up ready to snap him) showing that if he gets close he gets in trouble; he understand that and stays put without crossing their "border"( he knows he is not in the shape to pick up a fight). He eats seeds from my hand now and today for the first time he bathe with a female pigeon who's not his mate. It's been about 3 months since i have him and so far so good.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

RMC pigeon supply is owned by one of US great flyers today name Richard Banzon. You can ask about the concern of the injured bird.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> First of all i must say you have a bird with great homming ability, if after 1 day in of having him, he returned to you. Too bad if he will not be able to fly, but do not lose hope yet.
> 
> You will have to accomodate him according the the needs.
> 
> ...


Aww, good for him, sounds like youre doing a great job with him! Would you reccomend me putting him in the loft with everyone else eventhough hes still injured or should i wait till hes better? My boyfriend doesnt agree with taking "every bird that gets hurt to the vet" im a bit upset about it but he is willing to stop by the pigeon supply place member "pigeon is fun" reccomended and buy the appropriate meds and lice spray. Its hard for me to not rush my animals to a vet because to me, theyre my fur babies and feather babies. If i had kids, id rush them to the doc, so why should it be any different with my animals, but at the same time, there are tons of fanciers out there that dont rush their pigeon to the vet every time its hurt... they treat them with medicines that are known to work.

I worry about him being in the loft until he is healed because feeding time is pretty rough, he would probably not get enough food cause everyone else walks on each other to get their fair share. Plus, we still need to build their outdoor aviary, which will be 14x6x8 ft hardware cloth walk in enclosure with a nice bird bath thatll give him enough room to get away if need be. Right now my loft is 14x4x3 and theres no nest boxes for him to rest in because im not interested in breeding at the moment... not sure id even know what to do if i ended up with babies lol.

It made me smile to hear you say hes got a good homing ability  cause i suppose it would be pretty impressive. He was only in his cage for about 30 hours before getting out. He has been flying about but still stuck around all week walked home from who knows how far while injured pretty bad. Thats why i consider him to be pretty special and im willing to do a little extra for him..... and cause hes hurt right now because of my stupidity :-/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think it was mentioned to forget the online crap, because it would take too long for you to get it. It really is important to get antibiotics into him ASAP after being attacked. A birds beak and talons can be full of bacteria, which could kill him in just a few short days. Sorry about all the mishaps with your other pets. Bad week! 

As far as him living in the loft with the others, well right now you cannot be sure how well he will heal. He may be able to fly once healed. And if not, depends a lot on the pigeon keeper what kind of a life he will have. Many don't have the time, and don't want to make accommodations for a handicapped bird. But with a few small helps, they can live just fine in a loft. I have a loft of rescues, and the birds that cannot fly do fine. I have ramps they can use to get to different places, and the bath is in the aviary, but on the same level as where they walk out. It is also lower than the cat box height that I used to use, so easier for them to get into and out of it. No one picks on them. Especially Virgil, my cute little cock with one wing. His box is on the second row up with his mate Cricket. He's the one that likes to hassle the others when they go up to the table for a drink of water. He's a little devil. He was a feral pigeon in Oregon before being injured and saved by a great gal out that way. And in just watching him, I am convinced that he must have been leader of the flock where he came from. No one even thinks of picking on him.
Most males will hassle a new bird, especially another male, when they first join the flock. Just introduce him slowly as you would a new bird so they can all get used to each other again. But it really is possible for him to live with them.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> RMC pigeon supply is owned by one of US great flyers today name Richard Banzon. You can ask about the concern of the injured bird.


Thanks for the reccomendation pigeon, im going to send my boyfriend there monday to get some supplies, and maybe a travel cage or 2... ohh what the hay... ill give him a few hundred bucks and let him go nuts lol.... im jus saying, hes lucky im not the one who will be doing this shopping trip  "free bird" would have a nice comphy little birdie tempurpedic bed and little birdie slippers, and a little birdie get well card hahahaha ohhh, how i love to shop


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You know, you can always put in a little crock of food for him off to the side when you feed the others. If you have nest boxes, give him one, and leave a small dish of seed in it, and a small dish of water.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Please do not put him together with his brothers and sisters. He must be brought inside the house. You risk his life, because he is sick and will get stressed and also you risk others pigeons health. 

Going to the vet is the first advise for saving a life of a pigeon, or his wing (if you don't want him handicapped). Just an examination and advise from vet so you know what you are dealing with at least. And if you cannot afford all the trouble of going back & forth to the vet, if that's the case,, please come to get advise from very experienced memebers on this site.

Please make sure he is feed and drinks water meanwhile and clean his wounds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, I didn't mean to put him in with the others now. I meant that for later on when they re-introduce him. Hope it didn't sound that I meant to put him back in now.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Dima, I didn't mean to put him in with the others now. I meant that for later on when they re-introduce him. Hope it didn't sound that I meant to put him back in now.


No way Jay, i read your message after i posted mine ;it took longer for me to type the message as i was reading some other stuff on the internet ; i was answering some of her questions from above posts. 

I am glad she is doing this sacrifice by taking him to the vet  She's having a big heart. And all the shopping stuff  all for the pigeon


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

The picture of the bird doesnt look like in an emergency situation, it could be worst but there are more cases are worst. I will try to do self remedy rather than go straight to vet. In this US economy now, going to the vet is like a fortune. To some people who are doing well, i guess its ok to go to the vet right away. JMHO.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> Please do not put him together with his brothers and sisters. He must be brought inside the house. You risk his life, because he is sick and will get stressed and also you risk others pigeons health.
> 
> Going to the vet is the first advise for saving a life of a pigeon, or his wing (if you don't want him handicapped). Just an examination and advise from vet so you know what you are dealing with at least. And if you cannot afford all the trouble of going back & forth to the vet, if that's the case,, please come to get advise from very experienced memebers on this site.
> 
> Please make sure he is feed and drinks water meanwhile and clean his wounds.


I can totally afford a vet visit. I always have a pet emergency stash fund tucked away. Its my boyfriend whose sort of against it, im guessing because he had a cockatiel his ex made him take in and he was fine and it cost him a couple hundred bucks. So, since compromise is a huge part in every successful relationship, we are going to go to rmc pigeon supply a little ways from here to get some stuff to fix him up. Aparently the owner is super experienced with pigeons, and honestly sometimes a person with so mich experience with one specific animal is better than a vet because vets deal with all pets, not just birds... or more specifically, pigeons. 

Im definately not the "at home care" type for my pets, but it also might be a good education lesson for me to get to know about different medicines i need to have on hand. Im a huge forum junkie, i belong to forums for saltwater fish, puffer fish, chameleons, dogs, pigeons, and my hair lol... forums are super valueable, especially for beginners just starting out. Ill also talk to my neighbor, hes got about 400 pigeons and has been keeping them since he was 8... hes well into his 60s or 70s now, and the owner of the pigeon supply sounds like a good person to talk to, so theres definately ways i can help "free bird" without going to the vet, and i bet the info i get with these recources would be far better than a vet.

I rescued my 12" puffer fish named "kukah" and my veiled chameleon named "picasso", they were both on the brink of death, i truely give almost all credit to the forums i joined. The puffer was in a 30 gallon tank and he would wobble back and fourth on the bottom of the tank, but he survived because i gave him the proper environment and vitamin enriched diet ect. And my chameleon had what we now know is an eye deformity that i spent over $1000 on at the vet... in the end, the vet basically said he didnt know how to help him. The forum taught me how to care for him because he cant shoot his tongue at his food and wont eat dead crickets.

*sorry.... im babbleing*
Anyway, he will get help and ill use any and every recource i can find in order to help him. If all else fails, screw my boyfriend im taking him to the vet cause itll be a cold day in hell when i sit back and watch my animal die.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It is good to have an avian vet that you can go to in emergencies. I'd look around for one.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> Dima, I didn't mean to put him in with the others now. I meant that for later on when they re-introduce him. Hope it didn't sound that I meant to put him back in now.


Lol, i wont.... i just wanted to make sure i was doing it right... guess it was SORT OF a dumb question lol  im still in that omg what do i do stage... so pls bear with my stupid questions. I suppose i was thinking that because i dont want him to think the dog kennel is his new home... nvm.  haha


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> No way Jay, i read your message after i posted mine ;it took longer for me to type the message as i was reading some other stuff on the internet ;  i was answering some of her questions from above posts.
> 
> I am glad she is doing this sacrifice by taking him to the vet  She's having a big heart. And all the shopping stuff all for the pigeon


Haha the pigeon shopping spree was a joke... but it would be a good reason to go shopping... which is why im sending my boyfriend  i cant be trusted with a debit card in a pet store. I have no kids yet, so pet stores are my version of toy stores for children.

And to touch on your vet comment, we are going to try medicines first but like i said in my previous post, if he needs it, theres no way ill sit back and watch my pet die. I dont have the heart. Shoot, i was considering letting him be a pampered house pet lol. The way i see it, my pet emergency fund is MY money, not ours... mine. I saved it and ill do as i please with it, just like i tell him, after bills are paid, your money is yours... i dont care if you spend it on a hundred pounds of gummy worms, if thats what makes you happy... but relationships take compromise and sometimes you have to do things you dont necessarily agree with. But if his way doesnt work, free bird is going to the vet. At that point, my money, my choice


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> It is good to have an avian vet that you can go to in emergencies. I'd look around for one.


I definately will. I might be wrong, but i believe my neighbor who is also my vet has homing pigeons... he might be a good one to talk to


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

We were able to find some spray for his wound as an immediate solution until we can get to the pigeon place on monday. The spray we got is called vetericyn. We also got some lice dust, but we wont be using it while we are using the wound spray. And i plan on going to buy a parrot cage for him on craigslist so he can recover (cause my dogs need their wire crate back before monday).

Right now, his poo has some clear liquid in it. Could that just be an effect of being stressed and in pain? Theres also little balls of poo in the clear liquid.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

The liquid poop maybe cause of didnt eat the right food for the last few days. It will takes time for the bird to recuperate.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> The liquid poop maybe cause of didnt eat the right food for the last few days. It will takes time for the bird to recuperate.


I see, that makes sense.

The person i tatood to at the feed store where i got the medicine spray is a pigeon guy too. He said he uses this stuff on his injured birds. He also saw the pix and said he doesnt look as bad as he was expecting and that it does appear to be from a hawk or owl like i was thinking.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

Yeah. As i told that the injury of the bird is not that bad. It will be heal in no time. Now you can go shopping to the factory outlet near you for the money you save for the vet. Just kidding.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> Yeah. As i told that the injury of the bird is not that bad. It will be heal in no time. Now you can go shopping to the factory outlet near you for the money you save for the vet. Just kidding.


Lol, i like the way you think

EDIT: My neighbor stopped by today, hes a vet and used to race pigeons. He took a look at free bird for me. He says he should recover and that there is some food in his crop, which is good. He took a BIG chunk of scab off, kinda freaked me out cause i thought it was part of his body! It was about the size of a cruton (lol, thats the only thing i can think of) He also gave me a few suggestions on how i can improve my loft, which i agreed about and some of the suggestions, we had planned on doing anyway.


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

You cant beat that! A home service from neighbor bet with pigeon racing under his belt. Priceless!!


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> You cant beat that! A home service from neighbor bet with pigeon racing under his belt. Priceless!!


Oh definately! Dr. Russum is a gem! Hes made countless house calls for my kitty and he just said shes all better now  he doesnt usually do house calls, but he does occasionally for his neighbors. Hes REALLY good at his job too, you can tell he has a hige passion for animals. He correctly diagnosed my cat with some odd, rare fungus from a rose bush. The medicine wasnt available in california so he had to call the company and have them make it!

By the way, thought id promote his veternary office while its on my mind cause i know theres a few people close to me. 

His office is called: barney & russum animal hospital. Hes located in fairfield, ca and he used to race pigeons, so hes probably better than any avian vet in the area. If anyone needs the number jist let me know or google it and youll find the specific address


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

I'll keep it in mind. I know my relatives in your area has a huge old dog that needs constant health issue. thanks.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> I'll keep it in mind. I know my relatives in your area has a huge old dog that needs constant health issue. thanks.


Hes great. He used to care for my moms and uncles pets when they were kids (i live on the family property now). We have used him gor generations, id never go anywhere else. Since we are neighbors, he gives me HUGE discounts and when he does a house call, he refuses to take a dime  best i can do is give him fruit, zucchini and roses but hes done so much for us, i feel like its not enough


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

I bought powder for the lice because it was cheaper than the spray for the ammount i would be getting, but i would rather have the spray, can i mix the powder in water and put it in a spray bottle? I dont want my birds inhaleing the dust if possible


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

When you go to RMC, ask for permecthrin II. I think its around 10 for 8 oz. Its in liquid form and you can put a little o you birds bath pan or mix it up in a spray bottle. You can ask them the amount you i will put to the bath pan and spray bottle. Its very effective and its safe even they drink it from bath pan.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

pigeon is fun said:


> When you go to RMC, ask for permecthrin II. I think its around 10 for 8 oz. Its in liquid form and you can put a little o you birds bath pan or mix it up in a spray bottle. You can ask them the amount you i will put to the bath pan and spray bottle. Its very effective and its safe even they drink it from bath pan.


How many bottles would i need for 15-20 birds? Cause the babies i will be getting soon have it too. I was reading up about bird lice and it would probably explain why they get annoyed with each other and are pretty aggressive at feeding time. i do understand feeding time brings some squabbles, but they bite eachother and roll around ALOT, seems pretty excessive for birds that were hatch together in the same loft. It would also explain why they have some missing feathers (not alot, but enough that i noticed), and their feathers look lacey. Im glad i found them on free bird, cause i might not have noticed them for a while 

The flock and free bird are separated about 50 feet from each other and free bird is in the garage, should i bother dusting or spraying the flock now or just wait till free bird is well enough for treatment? I dont want to treat them and have them just come right back


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## Dunn (May 23, 2011)

Dima said:


> Of course the vet is the best option. But he needs to have a few hundred $$ savings.  And untill you get to the vet, what do you do, in general, you sit and watch it?
> And the on line is not a crap, I wouldn't advise anything that i am not sure about it since i used it myself on my rescued pigeon.. His wounds were dry and the saline water solution worked very well and it cleared all the dry blood, with gentle constant tapping not rubbing on the wound.


i am glad your bird is doing we'll dima i just ment a vet was close the online stuff you have to order most the time it's over night but sometimes things should be addressed a bit faster i appoligize if you thought i didn't know what i was saying but the bird is doing ok and with time and love it will be back with the flock flying again but till the next time i am wroung miss dima i'll appoligize up front now


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Squeaker said:


> How many bottles would i need for 15-20 birds? Cause the babies i will be getting soon have it too. I was reading up about bird lice and it would probably explain why they get annoyed with each other and are pretty aggressive at feeding time. i do understand feeding time brings some squabbles, but they bite eachother and roll around ALOT, seems pretty excessive for birds that were hatch together in the same loft. It would also explain why they have some missing feathers (not alot, but enough that i noticed), and their feathers look lacey. Im glad i found them on free bird, cause i might not have noticed them for a while
> 
> The flock and free bird are separated about 50 feet from each other and free bird is in the garage, should i bother dusting or spraying the flock now or just wait till free bird is well enough for treatment? I dont want to treat them and have them just come right back


I would wait till his wound heals then dust all of them. I use 5% seven dust, keep it out of their eyes and nose, repeat a week later then again a week after that..it works. then offer bathing a few times a week, you can put one tabls to a gallon of water of 20 mule team borax in the bath water to keep lice at bay and they turn out so white and clean. cat litter pans from the dollar tree work well for this..I use 4 of them for may flock of 30 or so birds.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> I would wait till his wound heals then dust all of them. I use 5% seven dust, keep it out of their eyes and nose, repeat a week later then again a week after that..it works. then offer bathing a few times a week, you can put one tabls to a gallon of water of 20 mule team borax in the bath water to keep lice at bay and they turn out so white and clean. cat litter pans from the dollar tree work well for this..I use 4 of them for may flock of 30 or so birds.


Thank you spirit. Where can i buy the mule team borax? Thats soap right, home depot? I suppose the pretty bird bath in the aviary we are going to build them is out if i need like 3 lol. I may keep one out there though just so the loft looks nice for my future customers who want to practice releases.

By the way, it sounds like you do dove releases, hows business and do you find breeding necessary to keep your flock at the size you have it now or just occasional breeding to replace one or 2 that dont come home?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Squeaker said:


> Thank you spirit. Where can i buy the mule team borax? Thats soap right, home depot? I suppose the pretty bird bath in the aviary we are going to build them is out if i need like 3 lol. I may keep one out there though just so the loft looks nice for my future customers who want to practice releases.
> 
> By the way, it sounds like you do dove releases, hows business and do you find breeding necessary to keep your flock at the size you have it now or just occasional breeding to replace one or 2 that dont come home?


the borax I have gotten it a walmart., it is in the laundry isle. the bird bath may look cute but the bath is something you want to take up when they are done with it..as they will just poop in it or on it..lol... so the plastic cat pans are big enough and cheap, dump them out and store them untill the next bath. I have done some releases only for friends and family. I have not advertised or made it a business yet. I may offer a two bird only release to a bed and breakfast that have small weddings at their place in colonial williamsburg, they could add the realease to one of their package deals, I work not far from them so I could bring and release birds when needed..but I have yet to call them..lol.. I do breed in early spring, I added some grizzle race birds to my flock to add some good lines to my already all white birds I originally got..they were all related so I needed to add new blood so to speak. I think adding the racing stock is a good way to improve the birds..they usually will have almost all white offspring from a light grizzle bird or even a white race bird with a few markings on them. if say a bird has a few dots on it it is not even noticed on a release..they look all white.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dunn said:


> i am glad your bird is doing we'll dima i just ment a vet was close the online stuff you have to order most the time it's over night but sometimes things should be addressed a bit faster i appoligize if you thought i didn't know what i was saying but the bird is doing ok and with time and love it will be back with the flock flying again but till the next time i am wroung miss dima i'll appoligize up front now


No Worrys Dunn.
I think was a misunderstanding from the begining. I never put a link for anything to be purchased on line, i was a link for home made saline water. I must had expressed myself the wrong way


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## Dunn (May 23, 2011)

no worrys here neither just glad to see the bird doing ok


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> the borax I have gotten it a walmart., it is in the laundry isle. the bird bath may look cute but the bath is something you want to take up when they are done with it..as they will just poop in it or on it..lol... so the plastic cat pans are big enough and cheap, dump them out and store them untill the next bath. I have done some releases only for friends and family. I have not advertised or made it a business yet. I may offer a two bird only release to a bed and breakfast that have small weddings at their place in colonial williamsburg, they could add the realease to one of their package deals, I work not far from them so I could bring and release birds when needed..but I have yet to call them..lol.. I do breed in early spring, I added some grizzle race birds to my flock to add some good lines to my already all white birds I originally got..they were all related so I needed to add new blood so to speak. I think adding the racing stock is a good way to improve the birds..they usually will have almost all white offspring from a light grizzle bird or even a white race bird with a few markings on them. if say a bird has a few dots on it it is not even noticed on a release..they look all white.


We have a cemetery less than 2 miles from us  its the same cymetery my grandpa was burried at 3 years ago, so releaseing there would be symbolic for us as well as our future customers. We have like 5 cymeteries within a 15 mile raduis from our home, so we could use all those as training sessions for our birds. Weddings will come later though, napa valley is about 35-40 miles away as we expect most of our weddings to be there since vineyard weddings are very popular now days.

As we train, we plan on talking to some funeral homes and wedding planners, we figure if we are going to be training anyway, we would do some free releases to get our name out there, i think its better than knocking on doors to promote ourselves, and since itll be for training purposes, i dont feel right asking for money. Itll be good for the companies to watch what we do instead of listening to some long spiel about releasing birds.... this is of course if our birds come back when we begin loft flying haha


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Are you using train trapping method? This is the best one as far as i read, if you want your pigeons to come back.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> Are you using train trapping method? This is the best one as far as i read, if you want your pigeons to come back.


Of course i want them to come back lol 
Im not sure the exact term for the training method, so please do share if its not what we plan on doing and feel free to correct anything i might not be doing right. We have a belgium drop trap, we will begin by putting a temporary chicken wire cage on the landing board. Then we will put them in the cage and call them in for food. When they drop in, they eat. We will do that with them until they are all comfortable using the trap. Then we will release them @ 100 ft a few times them move further. On days we do not train them, we will loft fly them. We plan on staying on our street for training (which is 1 mile long) for about a month, then we will start tossing them in the 10 mile radius in all directions, then move further ect.

Am i on the right track? Is methodthe train trapping method?

Edit: will be using chicken wire for the temporary trap training cage because we have some on hand and its just temporary. I know yall hate chicken wire, so i thought id pre-defend myself, its only going to be used for a few days while we train them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Squeaker said:


> We have a cemetery less than 2 miles from us  its the same cymetery my grandpa was burried at 3 years ago, so releaseing there would be symbolic for us as well as our future customers. We have like 5 cymeteries within a 15 mile raduis from our home, so we could use all those as training sessions for our birds. Weddings will come later though, napa valley is about 35-40 miles away as we expect most of our weddings to be there since vineyard weddings are very popular now days.
> 
> As we train, we plan on talking to some funeral homes and wedding planners, we figure if we are going to be training anyway, we would do some free releases to get our name out there, i think its better than knocking on doors to promote ourselves, and since itll be for training purposes, i dont feel right asking for money. Itll be good for the companies to watch what we do instead of listening to some long spiel about releasing birds.... this is of course if our birds come back when we begin loft flying haha



you may not want to train from the cemetaries because if they get too used to the place they will not circle at all, you want the birds to circle, and they do that to get their bearings when in a new or a place they are not used to, I would get them in shape by loft flying them and perhaps taking them other places for release so they build muscle. Good luck with the wedding planner, I talked to a few and they just told me it is up to the bride and groom and what they want so they would contact you direct..not through the planner.. but hey you may have a good planner to make it known you have birds for release..here no such luck.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> you may not want to train from the cemetaries because if they get too used to the place they will not circle at all, you want the birds to circle, and they do that to get their bearings when in a new or a place they are not used to, I would get them in shape by loft flying them and perhaps taking them other places for release so they build muscle. Good luck with the wedding planner, I talked to a few and they just told me it is up to the bride and groom and what they want so they would contact you direct..not through the planner.. but hey you may have a good planner to make it known you have birds for release..here no such luck.


Thats true, im sure we will do at least one toss at my grandpas cymetery for him, but it does make sense to keep training sessions to a minimum at those places.

We live right next to napa valley, so im confident we will find at least one wedding planner to work with. Theyre all over in napa. Even if we dont have any luck with wedding planners, we know an ordained minister (a coworker of mine) and a wedding photographer (my cousin), theyll help us network. And my other grandpa is very involved in his church, they already want us to do an easter sunday release, which will get us some napa valley exposure, its a very big church. And theres craigslist lol.

We should be able to make it work, its not one of those things where we are trying to quit our jobs for or anything. Its first and foremost a hobby, if we can break even with the initial setup, then im happy


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

We are beginning to see how TERRIBLY designed our loft is  we have a laundry list of things we need to change. Another one of our birds got out today while trap training because our doors are waayyy too big. Even though he got out, that one wasnt too much of a blow because he circled 2 or 3 times, then made a b-line toward the guys house where we got him which is only about 2 miles away. The guy we got them from said "these ones 'probably' havent left the loft yet" but he wasnt sure. Keeping track of his 80+ birds is probably pretty tough. So even if he didnt get out today, he would have flown home when we actually meant to let him loft fly.

This is pretty discourageing, but i suppose the issues with our loft are fixable. If worse comes to worse, we may keep Free bird in the loft and use him as a breeder since he clearly has a great homing ability. I mean, after less than 2 days, he stayed around when he got out, and when he got hurt and couldnt fly, he WALKED all the way home from lord knows how far. So id like to keep him as a breeder even if he never flies again.

After we get the kinks worked out with our loft and fix what we need to fix, we will see which ones call our loft home and which ones call his loft home. Im sure we will end up with more than just free bird, so hopefully we will have a few who will pair up and breed. Then when we get babies, we can turn our shed into a real loft... high insight is 20/20, wish we would have known our loft wasnt right peior to spending a ton of $$ on it  if we knew what we know now, we would have used the shed from the get go. Im kicking myself now for it. But at least the bird we lost today went to his real home, so we know hes safe.

The babies we get next week should be younger than these ones. Last week, most of them were still pretty naked. So after we fix the problems with our loft and get younger birds, hopefully we will have better luck. Doesnt change how frustrated we are tho!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

make sure the birds are fully weaned! you don't need anymore problems. and who is to say you're birds ( you have now) won't fly to this loft 2 miles away.. 2 miles is like walking in the next room to a pigeon. I would concentrate on you're loft first.. then add the birds. 30 to 40 days old is good.. and if you get them from 2 miles down the road then make sure they have not even seen out of the loft.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

spirit wings said:


> make sure the birds are fully weaned! you don't need anymore problems. and who is to say you're birds ( you have now) won't fly to this loft 2 miles away.. 2 miles is like walking in the next room to a pigeon. I would concentrate on you're loft first.. then add the birds. 30 to 40 days old is good.. and if you get them from 2 miles down the road then make sure they have not even seen out of the loft.


At what age are pigeons considered to be fully weaned? (Typically).

I just got over $400 from selling my rhinestone dog collars i make, so we are planning to turn the loft into a walk in loft. It will go from 14x4x3 to 14x6x8. We are going all the way to the ground instead of having it suspended off the ground. If we make it a walk in loft, we wont have to worry about birds flying out of our ridiculously large doors lol. We will be adding better perches and a breeding box or 2. The way we are going to expand it, we will be able to divide it for a breeder section. And if my calculations are correct, we will be able to have a max of 50 birds, which is plenty. I feel much more hopeful now that we were able to talk to our pigeon fancier neighbor. He came over and gave us some really good info and suggestions.

Btw, our neighbor looked at freebird for us. He said his wounds are completely sealed over and that hes ready to go back to the loft. Guess he wasnt hurt as bad as we thought  hes in there now and everyone is leaving him alone. They really dont even squabble with him at feeding time. They just let him do his thing. His wing still droops, but that may or may not be permanent. He has good mobility in the wing and is eating really well. We are so excited to see him doing so well. We will always be a special bird to us. Cause he was our first "mashap" but he totally came back after only 2 days of being here... and he walked home at that lol.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Lofts above the ground are great since the design is made to keep away rodents.


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## Squeaker (Aug 9, 2012)

Dima said:


> Lofts above the ground are great since the design is made to keep away rodents.


We are going to burry a piece of redwood in the ground and attatch the hardware cloth to it to avoid rodents and other animals digging their way in. I wouldnt think a mouse or a rat could chew through hardware cloth. I used to have a rat in a cage that was made out of metal wire about the same size and gauge of hardware cloth. Around the perimeter of the loft, we are also going to put boxes with rat poison in them so they can crawl in and eat the poison but the birds wont be able to nibble on the poison cubes when they are out loft flying.

Having it off the ground was a great idea, but even if we make the doors smaller, they can still get out if we happened to not pay attention, at least the way ours is designed it could happen.


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