# Do shemale pigeons exist ? Can both the eggs produce same sex ?



## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi everyone , 
Hope you all are doing fine with your birds ..I have a few questions .Im curious to know whether shemale pigeons exist or not..I had a pigeon that used to coo and do the courtship when infront of a female and used to act like a female when infront a male..
Another question ; can both the eggs produce same sex ?? I have two pigeons that I think are two cocks that hatched from the same pair of eggs..

Thank You


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

yes dominant hens will coo also, the only way you know you have a female is if she lays an egg and yes you can get different sexes in the clutch


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

abluechipstock said:


> yes dominant hens will coo also, the only way you know you have a female is if she lays an egg *and yes you can get different sexes in the clutch*


I think the question was: can you get the same sex in the same clutch ?...if I read that right....


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Short answer - Yes

Each egg has a 50% chance of being a hen or a cock. 

So there is a 50% chance of getting one of each sex and a 50% chance of getting two the same, Of the second 50% there is a 25% chance of two hens and 25% chance of two cocks.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Short answer - Yes
> 
> Each egg has a 50% chance of being a hen or a cock.
> 
> So there is a 50% chance of getting one of each sex and a 50% chance of getting two the same, Of the second 50% there is a 25% chance of two hens and 25% chance of two cocks.


So what does that make the remaining 50% of the second 50% 

Lol, I know what youre trying to say, but the way youve worded it, mathematically it doesent add up. 

Should be
50% one of each
50% same sex -------> 50% Males, 50% Females

or 
50% one of each
25% Same sex Males, 
25% Same Sex Females


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Eh, semantics....

Really...? It breaks down that evenly ? No odds leaning one way or the other ??? Interesting.....


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Jaye said:


> Eh, semantics....
> 
> Really...? It breaks down that evenly ? No odds leaning one way or the other ??? Interesting.....


Well in an Ideal situation it woud be this, you can liken it to the toss of a coin
Heads - one of each,
Tails - same sex, toss again to decide males or females. 
although in actuality it would prob depend a lot on the pigeons genes & family history, much the way as some human reproduction & genetics can be tracked hereditorally (even though you will always get situations that break the mould - so to speak)


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Quazar said:


> So what does that make the remaining 50% of the second 50%
> 
> Lol, I know what youre trying to say, but the way youve worded it, mathematically it doesent add up.
> 
> ...


Meh - It makes sense to me, 50% one of each 50% two the same. out of the second 50% it breaks down to 25% two hens and 25% two cocks

That adds up to 100% by my maths


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Meh - It makes sense to me, 50% one of each 50% two the same. out of the second 50% it breaks down to 25% two hens and 25% two cocks
> 
> That adds up to 100% by my maths


Glad I didnt learn maths at your school lol.....

Let me try to explain better,

Your statement reads

50% & 50%
then
*out of the* 2nd 50%, 25% f & 25% m

so, tranferring to figures,
Start with 200 pairs of eggs
100 pairs will be one of each
100 pairs will be 2 male or 2 female

now, your statement *OUT OF *the 2nd 100 pairs, 25% Female & 25% Male,
25% of 100 is 25, so thats 2 lots of 25 = 50, plus the100 pairs of mixed, = 150 pairs, so whats the other 50 pairs ?

Out of the 2nd 100 pairs, Half will be female & half will be male
Half is 50%, not 25%

In actual fact the 25% you refer to is of the TOTAL 200 pairs, not 25% of the same sex pairs as your statement infers (although I know thats NOT what you meant)


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

thank you for the replies...so there can be same sex in the same clutch ...what about shemale pigeons ? do shemale pigeons exist ?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Shemales as in hens that act like cocks? Yes. Especially when you have two hens mated together, one of them will likely take on the male roll. As for the same sex in a clutch, yes it happens all the time. The general rule of thumb is 50% boy/girl, 25% boy/boy, 25% girl/girl.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

physically being both sexes I would say it is rare, just like in humans.. I find the question strange.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

I am just curious ...I've had a pigeon that acted like both hen and cock .Everyone back then told me it was actually a shemale( neither male nor female ) ..May be they were wrong....Thank you for your replies..


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Glad I didnt learn maths at your school lol.....
> 
> Let me try to explain better,
> 
> ...


************** They may be shemales?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> physically being both sexes I would say it is rare, just like in humans.. I find the question strange.


I found it a little strange too if im honest. But I get what the poster means.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Nazmul said:


> I am just curious ...I've had a pigeon that acted like both hen and cock .Everyone back then told me it was actually a shemale( neither male nor female ) ..*May be they were wrong*....Thank you for your replies..


So Almost A sexual as opposed to shemales. I think maybe they were wrong
Some pigeons take time to mature and can be a bit confused in the interim I suppose.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> ************** They may be shemales?


Bringing another "gender" into the equasion is a whole new ball game & a pain in the @rse  lol


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I found it a little strange too if im honest. But I get what the poster means.


So do I !...lol.. That is why I think it is strange...lol..


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Bringing another "gender" into the equasion is a whole new ball game & a pain in the @rse  lol


Yeap an equasion that is obviously far to far out of my mathmatical reaches.



spirit wings said:


> So do I !...lol.. That is why I think it is strange...lol..



Lol good point


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*If I could have your attention..... 

Let's NOT try to offend anyone here..with seemingly kidding remarks, you are out of line, and breaking forum rules.

THANK YOU! *


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

*gendered behavior vs. biological sex*

Let me take a stab at answering this: 

Unless some medical problem exists with the development of a pigeon, it is either biologically male or female. 

It is important to note that the term gender generally denotes behaviors, whereas sex indicates the biological, chromosomal makeup of an animal (or person. ) So, the gendered behaviors of an animal may not necessarily match up with its biological sex.

Often the behavior of a bird will indicate its biological sex, but not always. Sometimes, hens will behave as if they are male, bowing and cooing to other birds in a typically male fashion, etc. The same is true of males -- they may act submissive toward other birds, and it may appear as if they are female based on behavior. 

It isn't terribly uncommon for two hens to mate, in which case the more dominant hen will often take on the more typically male behaviors in the mating and egg sitting rituals. Less often, but it happens, two males will mate with one another. Occasionally, mating happens with more than two birds -- a male will have two hens as mates, all of whom perch together, etc. 

The only way that even a vet can tell the biological sex of a pigeon is if it lays eggs or is known to have fertilized eggs. Otherwise, it is just a guess. 

True hermaphroditism (the presence of both male and female sexual organs) is extremely rare in most species. Incomplete sexual development, in which an animal does not fully develop mature sexual characteristics consistent with either sex, happens a bit more often, but is still fairly rare. 

Chances are fairly good that your bird was simply behaving in a manner that wasn't consistent with its biological sex -- that happens rather frequently. 

Hope that helps, and was clinical, straightforward, and not offensive in any way.


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## Nazmul (Dec 8, 2009)

thank you minimonkey ....nice explanation...


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