# Pulling Flights Feathers?



## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

I am going to try something different this year with my young birds...I would like to cut and pull the 9th and 10th and also pull the tail feathers...Can anyone tell me the time frame when this should be done? Thanks


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

There is a lot of method to pull the flights, I myself will be doing it this year. I read it once in Siegel monthly loft report that, July is the month to pull the flights, but there is a magic number when to pull it. Siegel said that cut the flight then in 13 days pull it, so I will count 13 days before July 1st then I will cut the flight then pull it on July 1st. He said he doesn't know the rational why 13 days but it is a method being used by Freddie Rivera and it works for him also. So I will try this method and hopefully I don't hurt any of the wings of my birds. Hope this help.


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## Donna Miller (Dec 22, 2009)

why would anyone pull flight feathers? Is it to make the bird faster? It seems a little exterme...


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Donna Miller said:


> why would anyone pull flight feathers? Is it to make the bird faster? It seems a little exterme...


Around here we cut the last 2 tips and let them get stuck and all that then 2 weeks b4 training we pull them so they will be almost all the way in b4 we train them. It's done so the birds wont molt those tips again in the middle of the race season.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Pull 9-10 flights -6 weeks before First race-So they will have a full molt/wing when the races start.--LIVE & LEARN Donna--WOW -Yes they fly "Faster" with a full wing


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Donna Miller said:


> why would anyone pull flight feathers? Is it to make the bird faster? It seems a little exterme...


*Hi DONNA,Racing people do this to the birds that will be racing in the young bird races. It is done at in the middle of summer so that the bird has time to grow those feathers back in before the young bird races start and only the 9th and 10th are cut and pulled.Why this is done is so that there birds have a full wing you must understand that young bird (yb)races are held at a time that birds are into their molt,this gives those birds that have a fullwing an advantage over those that are still in their molt.This must be timed with when your clubs YB races start* GEORGE


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

WOW George--Are we trying to help younger flyers "OR" giving away secrets? Us 74 & 79 year old flyers may not know what we are doing..Been doing it WRONG for all these years????
But then AGAIN I have only Raced for 31 years.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*No Longer Secrets*



sky tx said:


> WOW George--Are we trying to help younger flyers "OR" giving away secrets? Us 74 & 79 year old flyers may not know what we are doing..Been doing it WRONG for all these years????
> But then AGAIN I have only Raced for 31 years.


*Hi SKY, Where have you been, those secrets are no longer secrets.These so called secrets have been written up in all the racing pigeon mags.There are guys that have made videos and sell them to new flyers.Good luck this year SKY keep us posted on how you are doing . *GEORGE


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

No one has mentioned the tail feathers, I was told that you should pull all the tail (every other feather) before the races also?


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## calmcool410 (Mar 17, 2010)

Wow u learn something everyday.... i no that brings pain to the birds....Actually cheating......I guess....I dont race so its cool, and im not pulling nothing off my birds. I wouldnt want nobody to pull my hair out so it will grow longer lol Example: thats like in dog fighting,,,,,,you file your dogs teeth sharp.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

THANKS calmcool1410--I'm not sure pulling the feathers helped or not--But it WON $5,000 in one of the races. THANKS also --I did not know you could sharpen a dogs teeth-I'll need more info- what type of file? and I'll try it on my dog--he likes to chase cats. WOW this site has all kinds of people with knowledge--very helpful.


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## Remarc Lofts (Nov 13, 2007)

I personally would not do anything with the tail. I've had good luck with cutting and pulling the 9th and 10th flight in late June. I also do not road train while they are growing back in. I have in the past done all my preliminary road training before June and then just loft fly while they are growing back in.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I haven't raced in quite some time, but even back then pulling flights was done. Personally I never did,but I never won big money either. I have pulled broken flights,yet never would pull the last 3 primaries as it could lead to wing damage. I have read that if you had to pull 1 of the 3 end primaries to soak the wing in warm water and pull straight out.
Kurps


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## King James (May 18, 2008)

I think cutting the flights,kills the feather so in about two weeks it will put ez. No damage.
But just what I think.............


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Yeah you have to let the tips die b4 you pull them. So you cut them and than wait atleast two weeks b4 you pull them.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

A Veterinary Approach To Pigeon Health, a book written by Doctor David Marx, DMV...Dr. Marx says that many flyers cut the flight a week to ten days in advance of the pulling to let it dry out. I do not believe that is necessary. I used to go though that two step procedure, but I have tried pulling the feather without a preliminary cut , and I see no difference whatsoever...


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Char-B Loft said:


> I am going to try something different this year with my young birds...I would like to cut and pull the 9th and 10th and also pull the tail feathers...Can anyone tell me the time frame when this should be done? Thanks


Did you ever get the answer to your question ???

I think the answer in part, depends on when your races begin, and where exactly you live. I think it also is generally part of a "system"....there are, I have found, a number of variables which also need to be considered. For instance, are we talking about YB's hatched in January, or April and May ?

IMHO, no matter who you end up listening to, I would not go into the loft and cut every bird's 9th & 10th flights, and start pulling tail feathers. Instead, I would consider trying it out on a "test" group of birds, and then you will be able to compare this test group to the rest of your YB team, and see what advantages and/or disadvantages you encounter. Even if everyone reading these posts go out to their lofts, and we all start a cutting and a pulling, I can guarentee ya, we won't all end up with the same results. Some might prize it as the greatest "secret" of all time, since they might win a few races, and thus they will credit their new cutting and a pulling policy. And still others may end up cursing the idiot who even dreamed up the stupid idea.

I say all these things as "IMHO" because with every system or idea, there is always another side to every idea or system. In other words, there is almost always a Pro and a Con to doing something a certain way, or not at all. On this particular subject, I don't know that all the facts are known. But, that has not stopped the various strong ideas on the subject.


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## AJPDP (Jan 26, 2008)

I like to cut the 8th, 9th and 10th on mothers day. 13 days later I pull them as well as all the tail feathers. I give them Biochol 2x week and methio forte 2x week.

My YB season stars in September...

There you go....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

AJPDP said:


> I like to cut the 8th, 9th and 10th on mothers day. 13 days later I pull them as well as all the tail feathers. I give them Biochol 2x week and methio forte 2x week.
> 
> My YB season stars in September...
> 
> There you go....


Hello AJPDP,

Interesting discussion on this thread....and just to play devil's advocate here, what exactly do your bird's do then, after they have 6 primary flights and their tails pulled out ? 

I think it is safe to say, they are in some form of "Lock Down" for a month or so ? This is what I would like those who are now considering doing this, will give pause and think about....while these birds are in lock down, what is happening to them ? What is going on over at your top competitor's loft, as in, exactly what are those bird's doing at that moment ?

I did last year what you do AJPDP. I cut flights and pulled tail feathers and my birds sat in the loft. My loft manager, with his set of birds was road training his birds every day or every other day, depending on weather. When the birds were not going down the road, they were flying around the loft.

I guess I am simply sort of talking with myself out loud. Sort of wondering what the real advantage was to the cutting of the flights. With the one set of YB's which were flown under the darkening system, they maintained those flight feathers and didn't have that month of down time, and so were able to benefit from perhaps 15 additional training tosses and many more hours of on the wing conditioning.

I am no expert handler of pigeons, I will be upfront about that. I just am not convinced after having tried it in some shape, form or fashion now, for the last four or five years, on a number of "test" groups, that it is a perfect solution to the issue of dropping flights.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

According to Joe Zack(one of the best YB flyers in the USA)....Cut the tips of the 9th and 10th flights at weaning...When the YB drops the 2nd flight,pull the 9th...When the 9th flight is all the way out,pull the 10th...Alamo


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## AJPDP (Jan 26, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hello AJPDP,
> 
> Interesting discussion on this thread....and just to play devil's advocate here, what exactly do your bird's do then, after they have 6 primary flights and their tails pulled out ?
> 
> ...



Mr Smith

You are correct....they are on lock down until the flights come in. A far as my what my top competitors are doing...I know some are in the same boat I am while other are pulling the 9th and waiting till it grows in and then pulling the 10th, while putting some training on the birds in the meanwhile.

It gets REAL HOT down here in the summer so I find that the YB's are really not that inclined to fly all that much anyway. As far as the darkening system I dont know anyone personally, this far south that uses the darkening system. 

I would agree its not perfect...but it works for me. I at least have 90 to 120 YB that are more or less even, and when YB season starts I dont have to deal with whether flights are in or not.

As far as training goes, I dont start taking them up the road till late august and I get them up to 120 Miles a week before the first race. It takes me about 30 to 40 days to get them in condition for the first race.

Regards,

AJPDP


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## miken (Jun 23, 2010)

When counting to the 9th and 10th, do you count from the inside out or outside in? Thanks


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

miken said:


> When counting to the 9th and 10th, do you count from the inside out or outside in? Thanks


The 9th and 10th are the last two feathers on the wing...


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

soymi69 said:


> There is a lot of method to pull the flights, I myself will be doing it this year. I read it once in Siegel monthly loft report that, July is the month to pull the flights, but there is a magic number when to pull it. Siegel said that cut the flight then in 13 days pull it, so I will count 13 days before July 1st then I will cut the flight then pull it on July 1st. He said he doesn't know the rational why 13 days but it is a method being used by Freddie Rivera and it works for him also. So I will try this method and hopefully I don't hurt any of the wings of my birds. Hope this help.


That is correct. Day 13 is the no


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Did you ever get the answer to your question ???
> 
> I think the answer in part, depends on when your races begin, and where exactly you live. I think it also is generally part of a "system"....there are, I have found, a number of variables which also need to be considered. For instance, are we talking about YB's hatched in January, or April and May ?
> 
> ...


I + that ! I totally agree.
I think this stems from the fact (as I've mentioned in another post on PT) that birds who've almost grown back their tenth have an edge over the others. But we believe that it is because they are older, more experienced, have flown more miles, have stronger muscles, better orientation, etc.
But you'll always have lazy guys who need "instant karma". Like John Lennon said : "Instant Karma's gonna get you" one day.
Some try cutting off mm from the tail to reduce drag, but I suppose you already know these things ? I don't cut or pull though I've tried pulling one pair of tail feathers to speed up the moult on one bird once. Never repeated it.


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

miken said:


> When counting to the 9th and 10th, do you count from the inside out or outside in? Thanks


I would suggest you observe the moult for one or two entire years before cutting or pulling flights or trying anything like this. 
The primaries are counted from the inside towards the end of the wing. The secondaries from the inside of the wing towards the body. Tail feathers in pairs from the middle towards the outside. The moulting sequence in young birds is different from that of yearlings and OBs... 
Good luck,
JPS


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

jpsnapdy said:


> I + that ! I totally agree.
> I think this stems from the fact (as I've mentioned in another post on PT) that birds who've almost grown back their tenth have an edge over the others. But we believe that it is because they are older, more experienced, have flown more miles, have stronger muscles, better orientation, etc.
> But you'll always have lazy guys who need "instant karma". Like John Lennon said : "Instant Karma's gonna get you" one day.
> Some try cutting off mm from the tail to reduce drag, but I suppose you already know these things ? I don't cut or pull though I've tried pulling one pair of tail feathers to speed up the moult on one bird once. Never repeated it.


 IMHO, everyone should fly "Natural" their first year or two, so that they understand how a pigeon would normally go through this end of year process. 
I also suggest, where possible, that one start after this year or two on natural with some small test groups. Otherwise, as sure as I am writing this....someone is going to go off and start cutting and pulling and combining this with that....and end up sitting out some races or end up with some unexpected and maybe bad results. But, that is me...and the idea of gaining some sort of an "edge" will cause people to go out and do some pretty stupid things. Don't know why folks want to focus on such things instead of simply getting some good birds and keeping them healthy. Our main group of race birds at SFL are darkened and never have a flight pulled. Then there are smaller experimental groups...where I attempt to reinvent the wheel with darkness, sometimes light and flight pulling and the like. Have yet to find a system that is any better then simply darkening the birds. All groups end up with full flight feathers....but the darkened group has an extra month of loft training and road work...a lot more rest, and a lot less stress.....and will beat the flight cut group the first couple of races, hands down. By the third race, they are all on the same page conditioning wise.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Just reading this thread and I'm thinking?, in today's world why go through all that trouble cutting tips, pulling feathers and locking down birds,? When using the "light system" will get the birds all the way through the molt by race season with out all that trouble!
P. S. Some very famous flier's use to pull tail feathers but no longer do this because it isn't necessary in their opinion!


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## jpsnapdy (Apr 4, 2010)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Just reading this thread and I'm thinking?, in today's world why go through all that trouble cutting tips, pulling feathers and locking down birds,? When using the "light system" will get the birds all the way through the molt by race season with out all that trouble!
> P. S. Some very famous flier's use to pull tail feathers but no longer do this because it isn't necessary in their opinion!


I don't have any experience with a light or dark system, so won't talk about those.
But I think that just watching how a bird goes through its moult will tell you a lot about the bird and your own system. The most important thing being the calendar you have decided to follow, that's why you need to know your birds and how they will react to your system.
JPS


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