# Pigeon throat bulge/lump



## Guest (Apr 8, 2009)

Hello! My pigeon is about 2 months old and has just recently learned to fly. He was fine up until he was about two months, and then this small bulge appeared in the middle of his throat. I thought maybe i was seeing things, so i ignored the problem. Now it's about a week later and the lump in my pigeon's throat is considerably larger and slightly more off to the right of his throat. It looks very akward on him, but it doesn't seem like he is in any sort of pain from it (not that i can actually tell). Also, the pigeon is eating and swallowing fine. Any ideas as to what this lump may be...? Or what it might be caused by...?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ilovetravii said:


> Hello! My pigeon is about 2 months old and has just recently learned to fly. He was fine up until he was about two months, and then this small bulge appeared in the middle of his throat. I thought maybe i was seeing things, so i ignored the problem. Now it's about a week later and the lump in my pigeon's throat is considerably larger and slightly more off to the right of his throat. It looks very akward on him, but it doesn't seem like he is in any sort of pain from it (not that i can actually tell). Also, the pigeon is eating and swallowing fine. Any ideas as to what this lump may be...? Or what it might be caused by...?


sometimes a lump in the throat can be canker, you can get meds for it from the pigeon supply sites online.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

What color is the lump? Yellow? White?
Also, does it appear to be fleshy/under the skin, or does it look more like cheese that you could scrape off? Sounds like it could be either canker or pox. Another sign to look for is the inside of the mouth smelling bad.


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## ilovetravii (Apr 8, 2009)

What are some cures for Trichomoniasis? I looked it up based on what you said and came across this. I'm sure this is why my pigeon has. Any ideas on what i could do to help cure it? I have been planning on going on vacation tomorrow, and i wanted something i could put in his food or get quickly and have someone else give to him. Basically anything that does not require going to the vet for is do-able. Any ideas? I really don't want my pigeon to die! Thank you all so much!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

For canker we give Fishzole pills. I'm not sure that you'd be able to find metronidazole products anywhere but online pigeon supply stores or at the vet. In the meantime, I'd give him some apple cider vinegar in his water, 2 tablespoons per gallon.

I'll go find you some links on canker meds.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here's what I got. I've found that some of the medications these stores carry, can be found at pet stores or places like Tractor Supply. But I don't know if they'll carry canker medicine:
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-canker.html
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker.html
http://www.jedds.com/Categories.bok
http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php?keyword=canker&action=search

If you're lucky, you might be close to one of those places where shipping wouldn't take very long.


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## ilovetravii (Apr 8, 2009)

okay! i called my local pet store and they have a fish product that has metronidazole in it. Its not fish zole though, do you think it will still be safe to give to my pigeon?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ilovetravii said:


> okay! i called my local pet store and they have a fish product that has metronidazole in it. Its not fish zole though, do you think it will still be safe to give to my pigeon?


Do you know the actual name of the product?


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## ilovetravii (Apr 8, 2009)

AtA general cure maybe? i'm not for certain on the first part!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ilovetravii said:


> AtA general cure maybe? i'm not for certain on the first part!


Well, the only way to know for sure is to know the correct name and try to do a search. I have no idea if you could use it or not.
If we knew where you are, we just might have a member close by with some medicine.


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## ilovetravii (Apr 8, 2009)

I live in Burton Michigan. It's very close to Flint. Know any members near here?
I'll pay for the medicine of course!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I have contacted one of our members near you and she will be coming on line in just a minute, so don't go away.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Charis said:


> I have contacted one of our members near you and she will be coming on line in just a minute, so don't go away.


I knew we had members in MI. Just couldn't remember who or where. LOL


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi there,

I see you are in Burton. I'm not very far away at all, in Ortonville. I have spartrix tablets and flagyl which are both for treatment of canker and you can have some of either or both. I work in the opposite direction, and see that you are going away tomorrow...so if possible we'll have to try and connect tonight?! I'll PM you if you are still online. Or you can PM me back.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I see you are in Burton. I'm not very far away at all, in Ortonville. I have spartrix tablets and flagyl which are both for treatment of canker and you can have some of either or both. I work in the opposite direction, and see that you are going away tomorrow...so if possible we'll have to try and connect tonight?! I'll PM you if you are still online. Or you can PM me back.


Thank you!


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> Thank you!


Glad to help! Will let you know...I PM'd my phone #.


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## ilovetravii (Apr 8, 2009)

Okay, I spoke with thesnipes and she told me that it could possibly be a blood boil. Anyone know anything about that? Sorry for jumping the gun and assuming it was a canker.... that just made a lot of sense!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you post a picture?


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi ilovetravii,

For what it is worth here is an article on Trichomonasis you might look at and see if it fits what you are looking at:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM032


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi again,
I met up with Deborah and her daughters and their pidgie, he sure is a pretty guy, and very calm and sweet.

There is a large lump that to me I suspect may be a swollen salivary gland. I saw no sign of canker in the throat/mouth, but to be on the safe side we dosed him with a Spartrix tablet and she has some flagyl for flock treating everybody, I gave her enough for a couple days and they already ordered some today which should be here by Friday. So they should have enough of that drug to treat everyone, just in case, since they have >1 young bird and well you know if it is canker it could spread. 

I realize this could also be an infection. I gave her some cipro tablets, but no instructions to use them for now, just so she has some on hand. (They are the 50mg tabs, in case they come on here and ask for dosing help should they decide to administer them.)

Of course it could also be a tumor, or ??? The texture felt firm. I guess it would just be the normal first thought to go for canker as the suspect agent.

I thought it best to not double dose this bird with the spartrix and flagyl, but not sure if they will decide to isolate him or not, so he will either be getting the flagyl or the spartrix pills for the next few days. It's a bit complicated, as they are about to go on vacation leaving a friend to care for their birds. And why is it that they always get ill on holidays???? (Or weekends when you can't get something shipped overnight!)

They said that lump grew pretty quickly. It is not a blood tumor, it's definitely under the skin and the flesh looks normal. Inside his mouth was a healthy / normal looking color. I took some pics of him - it is pretty large but he seems so far at least to be able to swallow normally.

Anyway, just letting people know what they have now to work with...any other advice or thoughts...

Hopefully he will be ok till they get back and can update us with how things went. Fingers X'd! Thanks for the headsup, Charis 


here are the pics:
front view not as clear
side view more pronounced!

ps she also gave me $20 which I did not want to take, but on her polite insistence will put in the rescue fund. Perhaps to share or pass on to the next PT member faced with an insurmountable bill  Thanks, Deb!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Bumping up .. potentially really serious problem here, folks. Let's get some help going, please.

Terry


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I will add that they also use the same avian vet I do, and if they decide to see a professional they have a good one nearby.

I often send the vet pictures and consult with her via email so I'm sending the pics from last night and description of what's being done, so we should have some professional advice on it later today. If the Dr. thinks the bird should come in we'll go from there.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TheSnipes, 

Thank you for everything you have done to help. Sounds like you have covered every base.

Do keep us updated, ilovetravii. I sure hope this is resolved quickly.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> Bumping up .. potentially really serious problem here, folks. Let's get some help going, please.
> 
> Terry


Terry...this member has been given all the help we can possibly offer. TheSnipes, met with her and gave her medicine not just for canker but also for a bacterial infection. 
TheSnipes also gave her contact info to the vet she takes her own birds to.
What else would you have us do?


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess a more accurate assessment of the problem would be more helpful to the owner.

Form the location of the "bump" it would appear that it could be a tumor, it could be a growth (possibly fungal) in the crop, it could be a rupture in the esophageous that has collected in the lumen of the thorax. Any of which will not be helped by the administration of antibiotic.

It is clear however if the growth continues unchecked it will begin to press against the trachea making it difficult to breathe. On an emergency basis the insertion of a large gauge needle into the trachea will provide temporary relief, and ilovetravii should anticipate that the bird may at any moment experience breathing difficulty.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> I guess a more accurate assessment of the problem would be more helpful to the owner.
> 
> Form the location of the "bump" it would appear that it could be a tumor, it could be a growth (possibly fungal) in the crop, it could be a rupture in the esophageous that has collected in the lumen of the thorax. Any of which will not be helped by the administration of antibiotic.
> 
> It is clear however if the growth continues unchecked it will begin to press against the trachea making it difficult to breathe. On an emergency basis the insertion of a large gauge needle into the trachea will provide temporary relief, and ilovetravii should anticipate that the bird may at any moment experience breathing difficulty.


We can't see it...you can't see it. The bird needs to be seen by a vet that treats birds. The member HAS been given that contact and TheSniopes has emailed her vet the pictures she took last night. TheSnipes has also left a message for the member and as it's her bird...it's up to her now.
The debate should well be done. We have done all we can.
Special thanks to TheSnipes for all she has done to help.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

to I lovetravii....take Hime To The Vet. that is my input.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> take Him To The Vet. that is my input.


Exactly and that has been the recommendation.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I did send the pics and the vet wants to see the bird. 

I left Ilovetravii a voice message and a PM to that effect, and since the birds are being cared for by a friend starting today till next Thursday, I have offered to take the bird to the appointment if they need someone to do that.

Only thing I won't do is pay their bill. 

This is truly all that can be done I think in the circumstances. It is up to the owner to take whatever next step they choose.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

With all due respect folks, people who seek advice from the forum are likely to know all about veterinarians, what they do and what they cost. It is also clear to me that many people who approach the forum for assistance do so because a vet is not accessible or affordable or undesirable for any number of reasons.

I have always taken it for granted that nobody who seeks help or advice from the forum is being led to believe they are getting competent trained professional assistance. I suggest that telling them to go to a vet is really a nice way of telling them to take their problem somewhere else. 

While it may be true that certain problems can not be dealt with by colloidol silver or spartrix it would probably be fairer to the public to quickly admit that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> With all due respect folks, people who seek advice from the forum are likely to know all about veterinarians, what they do and what they cost. It is also clear to me that many people who approach the forum for assistance do so because a vet is not accessible or affordable or undesirable for any number of reasons.
> 
> I have always taken it for granted that nobody who seeks help or advice from the forum is being led to believe they are getting competent trained professional assistance. I suggest that telling them to go to a vet is really a nice way of telling them to take their problem somewhere else.
> 
> While it may be true that certain problems can not be dealt with by colloidol silver or spartrix it would probably be fairer to the public to quickly admit that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability.


so what's your point? we are not licensed veterinarians, just try to help, If they can't, won't, will not take it to a vet.... and it needs one....you then just have to guess from experience,..and HOPE you help... I don't have a problem recommending a vet even if they don't need one....sometimes you can learn a few things from the DR, and establish a relationship so if you need them in the furture.....Im not INTO someone who wants to save a few bucks and then still lose their bird.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Well at least I am not looking at large black type this time.

Maybe "someone" just does not have a few bucks to pay a vet. Other matters like mortgage, rent, food, children's medicine. may seem a slightly higher priority.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> With all due respect folks, people who seek advice from the forum are likely to know all about veterinarians, what they do and what they cost. It is also clear to me that many people who approach the forum for assistance do so because a vet is not accessible or affordable or undesirable for any number of reasons.
> 
> I have always taken it for granted that nobody who seeks help or advice from the forum is being led to believe they are getting competent trained professional assistance. I suggest that telling them to go to a vet is really a nice way of telling them to take their problem somewhere else.
> 
> While it may be true that certain problems can not be dealt with by colloidol silver or spartrix it would probably be fairer to the public to quickly admit that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say because you almost seem to be contradicting yourself. Telling someone to seek a vet's counsel is just sound advice. Offering assistance by other means has value as well but not every issue is readily identifiable, and in those cases referral to a professional is the most prudent course of action...(especially when one IS available & accessible).


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> Well at least I am not looking at large black type this time.
> 
> Maybe "someone" just does not have a few bucks to pay a vet. Other matters like mortgage, rent, food, children's medicine. may seem a slightly higher priority.


of course, they will have to wing it with some help, and SAY they can not afford to take the bird/pet to the vet, so we stop recommending that.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

To spirit wings,

It may have escaped your notice, but PETA and USHS are saying that pet abandonment is reaching crisis levels, straining their limited resources. But if you are not "into" people who want or need to save a few bucks, it really does not matter what they say.

To Snipes:

If there is some contradiction in my posting why don't you point it out exactly rather than tell us you do not understand. 
A person seeking help from the forum need not be regarded as a retarded child. Of course they know about veterinarians and they could probably find one close by. They come here in the reasonable expectation they will receive help, failing which, some support with their problem. Telling them to take it to a vet meets neither of those expectations. Unless we frankly have no clue. And then we should just say so.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> To Snipes:
> 
> If there is some contradiction in my posting why don't you point it out exactly rather than tell us you do not understand.
> A person seeking help from the forum need not be regarded as a retarded child. Of course they know about veterinarians and they could probably find one close by. They come here in the reasonable expectation they will receive help, failing which, some support with their problem. Telling them to take it to a vet meets neither of those expectations. Unless we frankly have no clue. And then we should just say so.


I don't see anything in this thread suggesting any visitor (to this thread anyway) was treated like a retarded anything. Someone asked for and received every kind of assistance we could offer. That included help AND support, AND a vet recommendation (in this case it so happened the owner was already acquainted with the same vet and has in fact been there once, so it was just a further reinforcing of their previous experience, to get the recommendation from me personally).

And you are very wrong that giving someone advice to take the bird to the vet does not meed their expectations or needs. It is entirely possible that is the only good advice there is to give and giving them a specific vet to go to is likely a huge help.

As to what seemed contradictory in your post, it's this:

"I suggest that telling them to go to a vet is really a nice way of telling them to take their problem somewhere else. "

which you seem to be saying should not be endorsed, vs. this:

"...it would probably be fairer to the public to quickly admit that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability"

Which is exactly the equivalent of telling them to take their problem somewhere else. So, you seemed to be advocating opposing positions simultaneously. Perhaps you should take more time to compose your posts since you seemed to have confused at least two other readers.

You have a tendency to come off very caustically, in case no one's told you that yet. And derailing threads to pursue your own argumentative opinions really distracts from the purpose and spirit of the forum. personally, since I don't have time to waste, I am putting you on my ignore list.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

To TheSnipes,

If you think that expressions like "you seem to be saying" and "is exactly the equivalent of", point out anything other than an inability to read what is written, I am afraid I can not make any response for you.

Unfortunately I have the strange belief that it is discourteous to offer opinions and personal judgment on how you, or anyone else on this forum "comes off", whatever that is supposed to mean.

I can only say that I wish you had put my name on your ignore list some years ago. I would have done the same for you.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

OH GRIMALDY...me thinks thou does project too much!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TheSnipes said:


> I did send the pics and the vet wants to see the bird.
> 
> I left Ilovetravii a voice message and a PM to that effect, and since the birds are being cared for by a friend starting today till next Thursday, I have offered to take the bird to the appointment if they need someone to do that.
> 
> ...



Hi Deb,

Thank you for the update and PM- ing Ilovetravii to let this member know the vet wants to see the bird. I am sure they will appreciate your offer to take the bird to your (and their's) vet.

Sounds like a plan, do update us when needed.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> With all due respect folks, people who seek advice from the forum are likely to know all about veterinarians, what they do and what they cost. It is also clear to me that many people who approach the forum for assistance do so because a vet is not accessible or affordable or undesirable for any number of reasons.
> 
> I have always taken it for granted that nobody who seeks help or advice from the forum is being led to believe they are getting competent trained professional assistance. I suggest that telling them to go to a vet is really a nice way of telling them to take their problem somewhere else.
> 
> While it may be true that certain problems can not be dealt with by colloidol silver or spartrix it would probably be fairer to the public to quickly admit that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability.



I don't believe that telling them to go to a vet is telling them to go somewhere else. And I think that it IS telling them that the problem is beyond our knowledge and ability. Not everything can be so easily diagnosed without the assistance of a vet. If it could, then someone ought to tell them that they are wasting a lot of time and money going to veterinary school. All anyone can do is give input on what they believe it could be. If a person really wants to know for sure, whether or not they care to, they go to a vet. And after everyone has given their opinions, the best advice, and probably the most helpful, is telling that person that they need to see a vet. It is good advice. Not simply telling them to go elsewhere.

BTW.........You did sound contradictory.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Bumping up .. potentially really serious problem here, folks.
> 
> *Let's get some help going, please.*
> 
> Terry



With all due respect, Terry:
Within two hours of the original post, Charis was able to get in contact with The Snipes, who in turn contacted Deborah and even coordinate a meeting with her. 

Within 4 hrs of the original post, and more than 4.5 hrs _prior_ to your post, The Snipes had evaluated the bird's situation and had given Deborah some meds to get her started. 
Help had definitely been gotten and in a very timely manner to boot. 

Thanks to Charis and The Snipes for being able to help Deborah help her fine feathered friend. 

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

AZWhitefeather said:


> With all due respect, Terry:
> Within two hours of the original post, Charis was able to get in contact with The Snipes, who in turn contacted Deborah and even coordinate a meeting with her.
> 
> Within 4 hrs of the original post, and more than 4.5 hrs _prior_ to your post, The Snipes had evaluated the bird's situation and had given Deborah some meds to get her started.
> ...


That sounds like pretty good "service" to me. Thank you Charis and Snipes. 

Even if part of the thread reminded me of an episode of the TV show "House", except that in the show they are all doctors. I always get a bit nervous when detailed invasive medical procedures are prescribed for a pigeon, based on descriptions of symptoms and the like from fairly inexperienced and/or unsophisticated laymen pigeon owners. If I was on a deserted island, and my wife's appendix burst, perhaps someone could walk me through removing it, like I saw in a movie once. But, if I was simply at home, the best advice would be to tell me to call 911. 

Sounds like to me, that Charis and The Snipes handled this in a very professional, and responsible manner. If I'm ever in a bind, I am thinking they are the ones I would look to. (for a sick pigeon, not an apendix. )


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you, Cindy.
Thank you, Warren.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes, you guys did a good job on this one! Dave


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

LUCKYT said:


> Yes, you guys did a good job on this one! Dave


Well thank you too, LT.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I just wish we'd heard back from Ilovetravii before they went away on their trip.  I've no idea if they decided to see the vet or not.

Appreciate everyone's input.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

TheSnipes said:


> I just wish we'd heard back from Ilovetravii before they went away on their trip.  I've no idea if they decided to see the vet or not.
> 
> Appreciate everyone's input.


she had visitor messaged me and I told her they may have to leave the bird at the vet while they are away so they can care for it.....don't know if that happend or not......


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Well Jaye3,

As I told spirit wings, how the written words "sounds" is a subjective judgment; what it actually says is what counts. I do not tell people how they "come off" nor do I tell people they don't know what they are talking about. Which seems to be a common attitude with you and certain other members of the forum.

TAWhately said, and I concur, that we needed to get some suggestions going. She did not need a lecture about what else could be done. Prior to her posting the oerson seeking help was being told her pigeon had, "canker", "Trichomonasis", "blood boil". My suggestion that other possibilities could also be the cause was met with the reply that I could not see the problem (nor could the poster) and that justified speculation and offers of cure. All with no clear understanding of the problem.

I take it as a simple proposition that before any cure can be offered, the first step ought to be an accurate assessment of the problem. As TAWhately said in another posting, the purpose of this forum is helping pigeons. We can and should be able to do better. Referral to a vet is the best course if the person seeking help can afford it or wants to consult one. The fact they approach the forum suggests they are either unaware of the seriousness of the problem or they do not want to consult a vet. In all cases an accurate assessment is critical to making a referral. If the poster can not or will not seek the help of a vet, there is little to be gained by posting large black letters telling them to go to one. It is insulting to do so.

To those members who laud the efforts made in behalf of the pigeon, I join in your acclamations. But I believe we can do better.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I DO hope we get an update as to whether the bird is or will be going to the vet, as requested. I thank all of your for your input/efforts made and especially the people who acted quickly to enable this bird to get help in a timely matter.

We are not here judge or find fault with anyone, we are all human and we all make mistakes, but we are here to help this bird, that is the only thing we need to be doing. 

Let's just work together for the sake of this pigeon, and pray that this pigeon is under doctors care, or soon will be.

If anyone has any more grievences, please PM me or the person you are directing your posts at, lets keep this thread on track.

Thank you.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> Well Jaye3,
> 
> As I told spirit wings, how the written words "sounds" is a subjective judgment; what it actually says is what counts. I do not tell people how they "come off" nor do I tell people they don't know what they are talking about. Which seems to be a common attitude with you and certain other members of the forum.
> 
> ...


Grimlady...I'm starting to be embarrased for you. You need to drop this now instead of stiring this pot too. This really is getting old.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

No need to be embarrassed for me Charis, if I should need your advice or assistance I will certainly remember to ask for it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Let's drop it and get back on subject...PLEASE.

This is really distracting, I do not want to have to close this thread, but I will delete anymore negative posts, that have nothing to do with this pigeon.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Trees Gray said:


> Let's drop it and get back on subject...PLEASE.
> 
> This is really distracting, I do not want to have to close this thread, but I will delete anymore negative posts, that have nothing to do with this pigeon.


Thanks Treesa that is what needs to be done to keep the forum useful and on track.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Hey Deb just called, they got home from vacation and this birdie is fine. The lump is completely gone from his neck. She said she did a total of 3 doses of spartrix. 

Either it was a canker and the meds helped, or it was some as yet unidentified aberration. If the latter I suppose it may come back, but here's hoping not. I wanted to pass it along to everyone, not sure if Ilovetravii will post back or not.

So they had a happy ending. Yay.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

That's super news, Snipes. 

Thank you for posting it and again many THANKS to you and Charis for your exceptional teamwork in helping Deb help one of our fine feathered friends. 

Cindy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Jaye,

Well I really appreciate the update. 

Sounds like it probably was canker then. I would make sure the bird gets the full dosage, as recommended per instructions, as this is one you don't want to mess around with. Also, the canker will become more resistant to the spartrix if it should come back, then it's best to use the metronidazole

Thanks for all your help and the update.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks for the update, it is good to have good news!

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That's sure a relief.
Think pomegranate, Snipes.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> Think pomegranate, Snipes.


I AM!


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