# Should there be 1,000 mile races?



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

What do you guys/gals think of the possibility of having a special 1,000+ mile old bird futurity season? It seems in the United States, the maximum distance old bird races is 600 miles. I know that's the case in the Federation I compete in. Logistically speaking, is this idea possible? If so, who would be interested a futurity race like this?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

NO !!!!.........As much as I like long distance racing,I think anything over 700 miles is cruel and unjust,and it just doesn`t prove a thing...Any of my long distance pigeons can home from 1,000 miles or more...But if it`s going to take a week or more,because of the lack of feed/water intake,and rest,it is not a race..It`s just plain punishment !! How would you like it if they took you 100 miles from your home,and let you walk home,as fast as you can,and YOUR NOT ALLOWED to eat at any restraunts etc,and sleep in any hotels etc?? And you not allowed any money to purchase ANYTHING to EAT !!! Have a nice walk,and I bet you can`t do it !!!........Alamo


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Yeah, I think that would be a little too much for the birds.


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

I agree it's too much.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I think as long as its not done in the heat of the somer there should not be a problem. Fabry, trenton, sion, and a few others are bred for such races. how many times have you had a bird come home with muddy feet, they don't pay for water, and they will set down in a field and eat.
I wouldn't put my Houbens or any other sprinter in that kind of race, as that would just be wrong.
Dave


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I think it is up to the individual, but me personally, I could not do it. They would have to not only rely on their homing instincts, but also on their instincts to stay alive. I, as probably everyone else on this forum pampers their birds, as they are given good feed, clean water, a nice shelter to live in, vitamins, and meds when they are ill, but to have to forage for feed and water like feral pigeons just to stay alive to make it home is too much for me to deal with. But, like I said, it is up to the individual, so please remember that I do not mean to offend anyone.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

YES. I think we should have the option of having at least one extreme long distance race in the US. Preferably in the spring or fall when it isn't so hot or cold, and if they picked the best week weather-wise to have it. If I had the birds that could handle it, I would enter.

Also, I believe pigeons are smart enough to stop for food and water when they are hungry or thirsty. And of course they are going to stop each night to sleep.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Pigeons are smart,but finding food,and GOOD water to drink for,I don`t know how many days it would take to get home....Put your self in their place...NO MC Donald`s,Wendys,KFC etc...No Hotels to sleep in...No money to buy anything...I have been in the Marines....They put us on an island,with only a knife,and one canteen of water...They gave us a compass,and said get to this location within 5 days....Well folks,you wound`nt want to be in my place that week,and God forbid that would have been in War times....You are not being realistic here...I don`t care if you had this so called race in March,when it is cool/cold.....The closest thing for animals that I can compare this 1,000 mile so called race is the ITENEROD in Alaska..BUT,at least,the dogs have MAN there to feed,doctor and make a nice rest bed for the dogs...Who`s going to feed..water...and give a perch for them to rest on,out of the night when other creatures are looking for food as the birds sleep ????........Alamo


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

No.......but I'm too tired to explain why..........maybe tomorrow.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

A 1000 mile race is just CRAZY! I find it somewhat worrisome that you even questioned it.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> What do you guys/gals think of the possibility of having a special 1,000+ mile old bird futurity season? It seems in the United States, the maximum distance old bird races is 600 miles. I know that's the case in the Federation I compete in. Logistically speaking, is this idea possible? If so, who would be interested a futurity race like this?


Interesting question, but I think my opinion is irrelevant. The longest race I send my birds to is 400 miles. But I doubt that any 1,000 Mile Futurity type race will happen. Consider why these types of events, have ceased to exist in the first place....

I question who would want to gamble losing their 500 and 600 mile champs, in a 1,000 Mile Race ? The task requires a breed that for all intensive purposes, may no longer exist. I always suspected these races required a good old fashioned "Homing Pigeon" who has survival skills. Maybe the kind of bird who in a 100 mile race, he comes home at 5PM, in a 200 mile race, he comes home at 5PM, in a 500 mile race, he is home at 5PM, after stopping at Mrs. Jone's bird bath and feeder down the street.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I just tossed the idea out because in researching about pigeon racing, I've read that many European fanciers pride themselves in breeding and racing pigeons for extreme distances. I think the idea is fascinating, but that's just my take.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Kal-El said:


> I just tossed the idea out because in researching about pigeon racing, I've read that many European fanciers pride themselves in breeding and racing pigeons for extreme distances. I think the idea is fascinating, but that's just my take.


*HI KAL-EL, You must keep in mind that when European's race it is kilometers that they use, and 100km is only 60 of our miles so a 1000 km race in Europe is realy only 600 miles.There was a time that they in Europe raced twice a week 100 km = 60 miles which for most of us here in the USA is just a traing toss. Think about it*GEORGE


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I wont do it. If a bird can't come home in one day, it is too much for me. Very few birds actually make it in those extreme long distances.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My birds(6),and probally 1,200 or more birds from five states were liberated @ 6:30 am from St Louis,Mo....There is a N to NE wind on the course,so our combine probally will not get any day birds...Only the Ohio lofts will get some...NY birds,MD,Pa,WV will not make it home today...Unless the wind changes course,or stops all together...I don`t think any harm will come to my pigeons,or anyone else`s birds,if they were PROPERLY prepared for this race...This IS pigeon racing...2 days at the most to get home...Not a week or more !!!........Wish me luck !! I might need some !! .........Alamo


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

george simon said:


> *HI KAL-EL, You must keep in mind that when European's race it is kilometers that they use, and 100km is only 60 of our miles so a 1000 km race in Europe is realy only 600 miles.There was a time that they in Europe raced twice a week 100 km = 60 miles which for most of us here in the USA is just a traing toss. Think about it*GEORGE


Yes I know they use the metric system in Europe. But the idea is to test the birds with the 1,000 mile race with breeding and conditioning. Wouldn't you guys/gals gloat a little if you had a bird that won a 1,000 mile race in two days?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> Yes I know they use the metric system in Europe. But the idea is to test the birds with the 1,000 mile race with breeding and conditioning. Wouldn't you guys/gals gloat a little if you had a bird that won a 1,000 mile race in two days?


I think anyone would brag about it. That is pretty impressive


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Go to google type in AMERICAN TRENTON BREEDERS,or TRENTON PIGEONS here you will find a list of sites on the old line TRENTONS these birds were bred here in the USA this family of birds were some of the best long distance birds in the eary 1900's. These birds were flown out to 1,000 miles.Some even flew that distance in times of 1 day 11 hours and 22 minutes The men that flew these birds at this distance flew 3 and 4 year old birds that had flown 500 and 600 miles many times as younger birds. We as pigeon flyers should take the time to read about this wonderful family of birds of 100 years ago,we all ways look to EUROPE and I for one believe that we here in the USA have birds that are as good as any thing from Europe.* GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

george simon said:


> *Go to google type in AMERICAN TRENTON BREEDERS,or TRENTON PIGEONS here you will find a list of sites on the old line TRENTONS these birds were bred here in the USA this family of birds were some of the best long distance birds in the eary 1900's. These birds were flown out to 1,000 miles.Some even flew that distance in times of 1 day 11 hours and 22 minutes The men that flew these birds at this distance flew 3 and 4 year old birds that had flown 500 and 600 miles many times as younger birds. We as pigeon flyers should take the time to read about this wonderful family of birds of 100 years ago,we all ways look to EUROPE and I for one believe that we here in the USA have birds that are as good as any thing from Europe.* GEORGE


Historically, what you say is of course a matter of historical record and fact. The real question, is absent all those 1,000+ mile races for how many years or decades or generations ? Does the current state of this particular "breed" represent a real long distance racer type anymore. The representatives I have seen, would indicate a big fat no. They have been bred more into a "show bird". I am sure that 50 or 75 years ago, when there were these long distance events, they would have been a logical choice, as they were based on performance. Generations of breeding by pedigree, and no longer any performance measure, has condemed this long distance family to only the history books, IMHO. I have not checked out the Trenton Breeder site in recent history. If they have any recent 1,000 mile champions, then perhaps I will have to rethink my position. If the Trenton Breeders think otherwise, then they should arrange a few 1,000 mile events, and show they still have a strain which can do the 1,000 in a couple days. A pedigree which shows that 12 generations back in history, some distant relative flew and won a 1,000 mile race, does not mean IMHO, that they now own long distance racing stock.

We had a club member who owned some beautiful show winning Trentons, which on paper should have been the terror of the long distance race. The only problem was, they would often get lost on training tosses, and he never had one return even from a 100 mile race. They had lost their homing ability, and had in fact become "show birds". I am certain this must be an extreme case, but more often then not, I suspect the lack of actual long distance racing, ruined this family a very long time ago. They were in major decline as I recall even by 1965, when I saw and handled my first Trentons. As it was true then, it has to be even more true today 40+ years later.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Ok if you google the "american trenton breeders" the first web site is a guy in my club. We used to fly the 1000 mile races here and some people did very well the "abelines" were also a great breed for this and I think the record being talked about about was from a abeline flown by Milton Hafner of Fort Wayne, IN. The birds speed was like 1100ypm. That is expremely impressive. We have flown together with fort wayne forever.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

If they bred birds to compete at marathon distances once, I believe they can do it again. There aren't many "True" Trentons anymore, and even those of course aren't bred based on those extreme distances anymore, because we don't have the races to test them. Another thing you have to consider is in most cases, a strain is not "sprint" or "long" distance, but rather the trainer is a short, middle, or long distance person. Condition the bird right, and it may do things you may not have expected from that strain. On the flipside, some birds have just been bred for traits that make them poor racers at long distances due to disadvantages in shape or homing ability.
I'm lucky enough that next OB I'll have close to 600 miles, but I'll probably get killed with the rough winds. If we flew the way we used to, I'd only get to about 400 miles.
_My_ goal is to have birds capable of flying long distances, but that's just me.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ohiogsp said:


> Ok if you google the "american trenton breeders" the first web site is a guy in my club. We used to fly the 1000 mile races here and some people did very well the "abelines" were also a great breed for this and I think the record being talked about about was from a abeline flown by Milton Hafner of Fort Wayne, IN. The birds speed was like 1100ypm. That is expremely impressive. We have flown together with fort wayne forever.


 Not to belabor my point, but what exactly is a "Trenton" ? With so many breeders and crosses in the mix, who is to say what a real geniune "Trenton" ever was or is ? Numerous breeders were involved, and each introduced crosses into the mix. What I think does make this breed or strain very unique, is that unlike tradition strains, where you have an individual who creates a strain which takes his last name, and then breeders down the generations still refer to the name of the orginal master as the strain name. Here we have multiple breeders with different foundations, just in this one article, all refering to their long distance creation as a "Trenton". Far as I know, this is the only strain which became famous, which was developed this way. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect that this "strain" was really developed by perhaps dozens of top long distance fanciers of the day. Which traditionally would have been called a dozen different "strain" names, all based on the breeder or the previous breeder. In this very unique American experience, it was more of a national effort on the part of long distance fanciers. I am sure at one point, many hundreds if not thousands of fanciers were building their colony's around the offspring of the most sucessful racers referred to as "Trentons". The very distinctive coloration of these birds, contributed to this effort. They were the flavor of their day, and perhaps the value of a bird could be enhanced by simply assigning the name "Trenton" to a bird, much like we see today with today's hot flavors. 

At any rate, the American Trenton strain, is a facinating story. If such an effort could be applied today in a specialised area of pigeon racing, (YB racing for example) I am sure the American Breeders could produce another American success story. 

Check out the various breeders and crosses, when referring to "Trenton" strain. 

http://loftone.net/Trentons/id10.htm


"The Fort Wayne Racing Pigeon Club has been in existence and has had young bird series and old bird series since 1887 or for 92 years. Around the turn of the century. four or five of the local fanciers ordered direct from *Conrad Mahr *four or five pair of his Trentons. It was from *these Trentons blended with Grooters *that the Fort Wayne fanciers started making long distance records, some of which still stand today. During the period from 1905 thru 1930 the Fort Wayne flyers were flying 2 and 3 1000 mile old bird races and a 1000 mile young bird race, it definitely required a different type of bird than the Sprinters and Speedsters in short races where money is the big factor. It required then and still does today, a bird that comes home on his own initiative and determination to get home. 
Oscar Anderson is the oldest living flyer in Fort Wayne. He is 92 years old and up until a year ago. could tell all about his flying with the Old Timers in 1902 and 1903. It is rare in a 1000 mile race that two birds will come together. The 1000 mile world record established in Fort Wayne was by *Dr. Schilling's *Blue Checker Trenton, named Hagen, who made the flight in 2 days, 3 hours, and, some minutes from Abilene, Texas. Needless to say, the publicity his bird got only gave the local boys something to shoot for as they all wanted to beat Hagen's world record. In 1910 Hagen's record was beaten by a Red Slate Trenton cock *flown by Henry Beach*. He called his bird 'Abilene'. Henry Beach's bird made the 1000 mile flight in 2 days, 2 hours and some minutes. Needless to say, Abilene's performance gained a lot of national publicity in pigeon circles. 
Henry Beach sold many Trentons and many prominent flyers obtained their first Trentons from Beach. Among the well known flyers of today who obtained birds from Beach are *Otto Meyer and Art Nemechek*. 
Three years later on July 11, 1913,* a Blue Checker Trenton-Grooter cross hen *named 'Bullet' homed in Fort Wayne from Abilene, Texas, 1000 miles late in the afternoon of the 2nd day to the loft of Oscar Anderson, whom I referred to before. Only a died in the wool pigeon fancier can dream of the pleasure young Oscar had when his 'Bullet' made the world record in 1 day. 11 hours, and 24 minutes, and 6 seconds making a speed of 1042.54 yards per minute. This was not the first good performance for 'Bullet' as she had previously flown 500 miles same day two different times. I might add that Oscar disposed of his last pigeons in May 1979. He said at 92 it was too hard for him to get up into his second story loft in his barn. 
In 1927, the 24th of June, Bullet's record was broken by "Wayne Jr." another full Trenton bred and flown in Fort Wayne by the late C.W. Oetting and to the best of my knowledge this record still stands for a club sponsored race from 1000 miles. Wayne Jr. flew 1005 miles to his home loft in I day, 10 hours, 22 minutes and 20 seconds, with a speed of 1122.43 ypm. Wayne Jr. was bred down from the* Mahr Bright Eye Trenton strain*. Mr.Oetting sold quite a few birds in the 30's and 40's and I am sure some of his blood lines exist in many lofts around the country. 
Not long after Oetting's record, the Depression of the early 30's came. Hard times followed & the local club had difficulty in keeping its ranks together as everyone was pinched for finances. Then the unforgetable war years from 1941 thru 1945. During the period 1931 till 1945, pigeon racing all over was at a low ebb. Only short races were flown and rarely a 1000 mile race. 
Around 1948 as an admirer of the 1000 mile performances, I started promoting a 1000 mile race again and it was not until 1953 that our club started flying the 1000 miles again. and with the exception of a few years. it has been scheduled as an annual race. 
In 1958 on Thursday, July 3rd our race birds were released at 7 AM Fort Wayne time. Friday the 4th of July, was a holiday and of course, in as much as the weather was favorable. I did a lot of looking for a bird. Saturday morning I had to go to work till 12 o'clock noon. When I returned home at 12:15 my wife nonchalantly told me she clocked a bird around 10 o'clock. I went into the loft and it was the bird I later called 'Abilene Jr.' He had flown the distance in 2 days, 2 hours and 58 minutes. 'Abilene Jr.' was then put into the Golden Cage and used for breeding only. 
In 1960. two years after Abilene Jr. made the good time. a bird I later called 'Ditto'. a full brother to Abilene Jr flew from the same 1000 mile station in 2 days. 4 hours. and 59 minutes. 'Ditto' won this race by a full 24 hours to the next bird home in the club, which was my bird called 'Spotty'. Spotty flew from the 1000 mile station a total of five times. During the period from 1958 till 1968, we had birds home almost every year on the 3rd and 4th day. 
In 1977, we participated in the 1000 mile race from Houston, Texas. This race has been known as the Atlantic Coast Thousand. We are over the 1000 mile dis- tance so we participated in 1977 and 1978. Lofts from North Carolina, South Carolina. Virginia. Maryland, Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana participated. Approximately 35 lofts with 105 to 140 birds were entered in this event. In 1977, Fort Wayne birds won 2nd and 3rd and in 1978 we won 1st and 3rd. The same 3 birds that in 1977 won 1st 2nd and 3rd came in 1st 2nd and 3rd in 1978 only in a different order. Is it coincidence, or does this tell us that some birds will come from the 1000 and some just won't? In the last 18 years, I have shipped a total of 66 birds to 1000 mile race stations and of this total of 66 birds. 48 have returned home. This is quite a good return home percentage. 
My family of birds* which I call my Abilenes are a four way cross - the old Fort Wayne Trentons, Grooters, Bastins and Bricoux *which I myself brought into Fort Wayne. I found back in the late 40's that this four way cross gave me everything I wanted in the way of good type and smart birds. 
I do admire long and wide flight feathers which is a characteristic of my birds. I do not like to ship a bird to the 1000 mile station until it has been to the 500 and 600, which means it must be in its 4th year of flying. I do not like to send yearlings to the 500 or 600. only to 275 miles. Then the 3rd year to 500 and 600. 
Now, how do I prepare the bird for a 1000 mile flight? The year that I intend to ship the bird to the 1000 mile race, I only enter it in the first 100 mile race of the season. Then for about three weeks before the 1000. I try to get the bird or birds to 50 miles about 3 times a week. and feed them quite heavy so they have good body. 
I like a cock bird on a 10 day old youngster and a hen on eggs about 12 to 14 days. I have had much better results with the cocks at 1000 than the hens. 
Here in the United States, popularity of a 1000 mile race seems to be gaining. More and newer clubs are sponsoring a 1000 mile race each year. In European countries a 1000 mile race is rare. There have been so many wonderful performances by fanciers in this country with birds of the Trenton background, I cannot but help think this All American strain should get more credit. They definitely have a stronger homing instinct and will work home from some of these SMASH races all clubs seem to be experiencing today."


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

MaryOfExeter said:


> _My_ goal is to have birds capable of flying long distances, but that's just me.



Mary,

If you have a simple, straight forward goal such as you state, it makes your selection process pretty straight forward. I had such a goal once upon a time, a long time ago. My mentor at the time, a Pigeon Corps veteran, laid out the formula for me. All your breeders should be at least 500 and 600 mile day birds. Continue to raise the bar as you produce birds with multiple wins at those distances. In some aspects, I think producing a 500-600 mile strain may be easier then producing a family of birds which can win from 100 to 500 miles.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you Warren for your historical input. I think as this topic is discussed more and more, those that are pro/con the 1,000 mile races will start coming out of the woodwork. The reason why I bring up such a topic is because I think there can be a lot of pride and payoff for a breeder if he/she can produce a family of birds that can make that journey. As we know, the farther the distance, the more impressive the accomplishments. I think it would stand a test if there are these 1,000 mile races in the future. After all, as pigeon breeders/racers, we've artificially selected the specific type of pigeon to win the distances we want. If there were to be these longer races, IMHO, there will be birds and/or families that are bred for those races become more prominent.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> Thank you Warren for your historical input. I think as this topic is discussed more and more, those that are pro/con the 1,000 mile races will start coming out of the woodwork. The reason why I bring up such a topic is because I think there can be a lot of pride and payoff for a breeder if he/she can produce a family of birds that can make that journey. As we know, the farther the distance, the more impressive the accomplishments. I think it would stand a test if there are these 1,000 mile races in the future. After all, as pigeon breeders/racers, we've artificially selected the specific type of pigeon to win the distances we want. If there were to be these longer races, IMHO, there will be birds and/or families that are bred for those races become more prominent.


The "down side" or "dirty little secret" about these 1,000 mile races however, is that perhaps 50% or more, die an agonizing death perhaps hundreds of miles away from home. What kind of a real pigeon lover, would do that to his or her birds ? I'm not sure exactly what side of the fence I am on, I could just be sitting on the fence. But, I can hear the "Shame..Shame...Shame" coming from the mouths of quite a few pigeon lovers and sportsmen. I confess, I am a bit uncomfortable with the concept of a 1,000 Mile Race. I think it could do great public relations harm. I know my wife would not think it is a good idea. I'm pretty sure, the average person on the street would think much the same thing. That an event in which 50% of the animals or birds die, does not sound very sporting. Maybe partly why I don't ship over 400 Miles. Historically, everyone tries to out do the next guy, so then they stick out their chests, and declare a 1300 mile race, and then 1,500 miles. I'm not sure what the longest recorded "race" ever was, but I suspect some "sportsmen" held a race at some point in excess of 1500 miles. And I am sure that they killed many pigeons going down that road of insanity. I am sure the fanciers who were the participants, felt that their birds were particularly macho. 

I suspect, that in many regards, these races fell into decline, besides other things, many fanciers did not feel it was fair to the birds. So, I suspect, there was at least some pressure to treat the pigeons more humanely.

I suppose with 2 day shipping to the west coast of the USA. I could ship birds to a Portland, Oregon partner 2500+miles away, and have them feed and water the bird for a day and release it. Perhaps in time, a bird will actually arrive back to me. And "Presto" I will have the start of a new 2,500 mile strain !  I mean if we really want to push the limits of endurance, then we should breed birds which will break long distance records. I guess, the point is, where does one draw the line ? I drew it at 400 Miles, most fanciers draw it at 500 or 600 hundred.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Warren, I'm with you, except I'm not ON the fence. I'm on the right side of the fence. 
My personal opinion is that sending a bird further than it can possibly fly in one day is no longer a race, but simply survival. 
I personally don't ship my YB's further than 250 miles (usually). On occasions I've sent a couple of birds to our Savannah, GA station, which is 330 miles for me (they were in a special race and I took 3rd and 4th place) and the Atlanta, GA station which is 311 miles. Most years, I sit out those two races. I've won the Atlanta race once. In OB's, I don't typically send my yearlings past 400 miles. I shipped our longest OB race, which is 544 miles once and lost two of my best birds. I'm done with that race station forever. 
We ship our birds to the race. On Saturday morning, the baskets are opened and every bird on the truck has the same release point, same release time and same release conditions. Now, those birds that are flying 600 miles, will seldom make it home on the day, even with perfect weather and conditions. They HAVE to go down overnight. The next morning, which ever birds decide EARLY that they are going to head home, do so. What if my bird sits in that tree or on the church or where ever for an extra 10 minutes, or 20 minutes? That is something I have no control over. There is control over the initial release. What time did my bird sit down for the night, the night before? 
I just can't see where the competition is after a bird has spent the night out. And to send a bird 1000 miles? That is just crazy IMO. It's NOT a race in any form or fashion. It is simply survial skills (being able to find food and water) and a lot of luck (avoiding hawks while in the air and cats or who knows what while on the ground looking for food and water). Is your bird better than mine because it took off for home 10 minutes earlier than my bird did? 
I'll use my IF Champion as an example. In 2004 and 2005 she flew her butt off for me. I NEVER EVER asked her to do more than 500 miles. From the very first race to the next to the last race, she was NEVER a 2nd day bird. Then her last race went terribly wrong. An animal got into the crates and killed a bunch of birds. She as well as the other "lost" birds must have been terrified. She wound up in Indiana, 500 miles from home on the wrong side of the mountains. She did not have survival skills. She was barely alive when found. She's not a survivalist. She's a TRUE racing pigeon. As long as I didn't ask her to do something incredibly stupid (like fly her butt off all day and STILL have to sit down over night), she did exactly what I asked of her. She flew home as fast as she could every single week and was always home, on her perch or with her mate when sunset arrived. That's the way it should be. 
Bottom line is.........we send our birds to the races, asking them to come home as fast as they possibly can. Why send them so far away that no matter how hard or fast they fly, when the sun goes down, they're still not going to be home? 
I just don't get it and never will.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I also don't ever like the idea of taking birds beyond thier limits but if you read warrens article the one guy had something like 48 of 60 left after the year was over. If the bird is built for the course and can do it then it is different. I know for a fact there are many many fanciers out there that will loose more than 25 percent of their YB and they will never see 400 miles. Now I know for a fact that if I breed the very constint bird that comes every week and never get lost then I would develope a strain with strong homing instinct. Problem is these birds are alot of time slower and don't win alot of races. Most people will not breed from a bird like this cause it is not a winner. They will take a winner from a pair of birds that maybe produce 4 birds that year and if they lost 3 of 4 but #4 was a winner than that is stock. They don't care if they have less homing instinct if they win. If we are so responcable to never send a bird we might loose then alot of the faster birds should never be sent even to 100 miles if there is a greater chance they are not going to home compared to a slower bird. Right? I also know that alot of those 1000 mile birds were lost and it is probably over 50 percent for some fanciers and I know fanciers now that loose 50 percent and never past 300 miles. If I talk to some of the real old guys in our club they will say we never had losses like we do now back in the old days. (one guy has been in our club for 60 years) But back then most our birds did not break 1000-1100ypm. Should we put a speed cap that disqualifies a bird that breaks a certain speed because we all know those real fast ones are more likely to get lost. If a bird goes 1400ypm it is thrown out. If someone is doing very well with a bird here in our club and it hits 3 or 4 times people will start to tell you (better stock it cause your gonna loose it). You might think it is just different sending to 1000 miles but what really does distance have to do with it if the bird is lost it is lost. Right?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Warren, I'm with you, except I'm not ON the fence. I'm on the right side of the fence.
> My personal opinion is that sending a bird further than it can possibly fly in one day is no longer a race, but simply survival.
> I personally don't ship my YB's further than 250 miles (usually). On occasions I've sent a couple of birds to our Savannah, GA station, which is 330 miles for me (they were in a special race and I took 3rd and 4th place) and the Atlanta, GA station which is 311 miles. Most years, I sit out those two races. I've won the Atlanta race once. In OB's, I don't typically send my yearlings past 400 miles. I shipped our longest OB race, which is 544 miles once and lost two of my best birds. I'm done with that race station forever.
> We ship our birds to the race. On Saturday morning, the baskets are opened and every bird on the truck has the same release point, same release time and same release conditions. Now, those birds that are flying 600 miles, will seldom make it home on the day, even with perfect weather and conditions. They HAVE to go down overnight. The next morning, which ever birds decide EARLY that they are going to head home, do so. What if my bird sits in that tree or on the church or where ever for an extra 10 minutes, or 20 minutes? That is something I have no control over. There is control over the initial release. What time did my bird sit down for the night, the night before?
> ...


I have to agree with you. I would never send a bird to that distance. But, I don't even fly OB's so it is a mute point with me. The issue I am on the fence about, is if I would activly try to prevent other fanciers from holding such a race. I would not support it, but I'm not sure if I would activly try to prevent it, or oppose it. Since I doubt the issue will ever come up, that aspect of me, might be a mute point anyway. Then again I am talking my Combine. Now, would I oppose or try to stop another Combine from holding a 1,000 mile race ? Not, sure....maybe.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I just don't think there are any 1000 mile races out there anymore? Maybe there should be a standard like say 500 miles, I can only find one race way back in 1936 "documented that is" where a bird flew an airline distance of 999.934 miles @ a speed of 1108.18 ymp to win an "AU hall of fame award" this bird did the distance in 1 day 13 hours and 29 minutes but only with a field of 20 birds and 5 lofts competing, I wonder how many (1000 mile) races were flown back in the day and not recorded or even bothered applying for an award for the feat at hand! Here's to "Centennial Queen" for an outstanding flight and the will to home, my hats off to you! I just want my birds to come home from a 100 mile flight LOL and with the hawks  being like they are around here that will take some survival skills in itself for sure!


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Folks,

We all forget the bottom line about racing, Money. Training for such a long race would be very expensive and costly. Would you want to put up the money to enter a bird for such a race? Some would but not many. Also who would want to put up a bird that was racing very well in 500, 600 mile races. That bird has become a breeder or already worth enough money for sell to risk in a expensive race like 1000 miles. Would the chance to lose this bird of value really be worth it? Most people would say no because the 1000 mile race would still exist otherwise.

Just my two cents,
Tony


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Training? well there are people that never train over 50 miles and still some that don't go past twenty-five miles and yes there are those that train, train, train, so one has to do what he feels best with given his situation!


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

Kal-El,

I think if a bird is properly prepared for the course, distance is a mute point. We have thousands of fanciers that think nothing of flying an old bird 300 miles. In the 1700's people would have thought you insane to try to do so. The envelope of distance does not expand if it is never pushed. The main reason for the loss of the 1,000 and 1,500 mile races is as said before, money. Not because of the expense of flying such a race, the fact is, that most people are flying futurity type speed birds that are intended to be home as fast as possible, usually from 300 miles. I fly and win at the long distances, but the birds that do so may fly 3 races a year because of the necessarry preparation. Most people today like birds that they can send racing weekend after weekend. The people that fly long distances care just as much if not more for their birds than fanciers that fly their birds every weekend of an entire youngbird series. The point is that they are your birds, if you properly prepare a bird for a race you are not inhumane to race the bird even if it's 100 miles. People that are short distance specialists would have to go back to school and start learning about birds all over again to become a long distance specialist as both types of racing are completly different and take a special skill set on the part of the fancier for either one.

Ralph


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Pigeon Racer: Very well said...I only put my best 500 & 600 mile birds in 1 or two short races,and prime them for the long ones...I protect my best distance birds as much as I can...Because they are the HEART & SOUL of the loft !!!!......Alamo


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Big T said:


> Folks,
> 
> We all forget the bottom line about racing, Money. Training for such a long race would be very expensive and costly. Would you want to put up the money to enter a bird for such a race? Some would but not many. Also who would want to put up a bird that was racing very well in 500, 600 mile races. That bird has become a breeder or already worth enough money for sell to risk in a expensive race like 1000 miles. Would the chance to lose this bird of value really be worth it? Most people would say no because the 1000 mile race would still exist otherwise.
> 
> ...


 And here is the bottom line IMHO. Any Combine in the country is free to conduct such a race, as far as I know, and so which combine flies a 1,000 mile event ? Zero ? So, if someone wants to see a 1,000 Mile Race, then your own Club & Combine is the place to start. Since 100% have all voted these 1,000 mile events out, in some cases decades ago. I suspect that most of them will vote it down again, if it can even be brought up for a vote. If you can get five local guys who want to race 1,000 mile events, you could always form a new club around it, and get one started. 

Another option, would be to go the One Loft Race format, YB's are sent to a central loft by breeders from around the country. They are raised and trained, for a future race, or in most cases now, a series of races at some point in the future. Some of these events have been experimenting for some time now, with having a typical YB race, and then they are held over for a race as a yearling. The One Loft format would simply mean the birds would be housed for an additional year. Simply slap on another year's perch fee, and a capital prize amount. 

If someone feels strongly there is a demand for this type of racing, then there are any number of ways in which to set one up. I would go the local club route first. Then build the One Loft Race from your own club loft. Heck, if it was my passion, I would open special 1,000 Mile Chapters around the country, and connect them with a newsletter and annual banquets and stuff. 

My guess is, you would have a hard time finding 100 people in the USA right this moment, who feel strongly enough to form a new 1,000 Mile club and financially support it, and actively promote other 1,000 mile racing events around the country. There simply appears to be a lack of will. In our combine of eight or nine clubs, there was declining interest in the 600 Mile race, so it was dropped. I guess I will just have to wait and see who comes along to promote such an event.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

If some one wants to promote a 1000 mi race I think my Fabry's can hold there own, I'll send birds.
Dave


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> If some one wants to promote a 1000 mi race I think my Fabry's can hold there own, I'll send birds.
> Dave


Now I know why you are called Crazy Pete, LOL. If someone here start a 1000 mi race, I'm sure you will get called. 

Good Luck,
Tony


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The "down side" or "dirty little secret" about these 1,000 mile races however, is that perhaps 50% or more, die an agonizing death perhaps hundreds of miles away from home. What kind of a real pigeon lover, would do that to his or her birds ?
> 
> But, I can hear the "Shame..Shame...Shame" coming from the mouths of quite a few pigeon lovers and sportsmen. I confess, I am a bit uncomfortable with the concept of a 1,000 Mile Race. I think it could do great public relations harm. I know my wife would not think it is a good idea. I'm pretty sure, the average person on the street would think much the same thing. That an event in which 50% of the animals or birds die, does not sound very sporting. Maybe partly why I don't ship over 400 Miles. Historically, everyone tries to out do the next guy, so then they stick out their chests, and declare a 1300 mile race, and then 1,500 miles. I'm not sure what the longest recorded "race" ever was, but I suspect some "sportsmen" held a race at some point in excess of 1500 miles. And I am sure that they killed many pigeons going down that road of insanity. I am sure the fanciers who were the participants, felt that their birds were particularly macho.
> 
> I suspect, that in many regards, these races fell into decline, besides other things, many fanciers did not feel it was fair to the birds. So, I suspect, there was at least some pressure to treat the pigeons more humanely.


This is just how I feel about it--of course on the "right" (no pun intended) side of the fence as Renee says. I read above post and thought Aha! Exactly. I don't race, of course, but seems too far.


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