# Just found a squab in garden, Help!



## tim (May 29, 2004)

I've just found what I believe to be a baby pigeon in my garden. It can't have fallen out of a nearby nest so am unsure how it got there.

I'm unsure as to how old it is but it is more naked & furry than feathery, and still has its eyes closed. It shows some signs of being alive (breathing & small movements) but has a small injury to one side & cannot support its head. It has no apparent desire to feed.

I would like to help it but haven't got a clue what to do next. Think vet might just give up on it. PLEASE help!


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## ilovemydragon (May 19, 2004)

Can you get it in a box with a heating pad on low? Have you called your local animal control and ask about wildlife rehabbers in your area?


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

I've managed to pick it up & bring it inside, placed inside a warm nest-like structure. The local vet says that they are not really interested, and that the local animal rescue will put it down.

It looks as though if I don't help the bird then no-one will.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tim,

There are a number of us dotted around the UK, probably one of us can help. Let us know where you are. You can e-mail me privately at [email protected]

If it has a large, flat beak that looks like something from the age of dinosaurs it is either a pigeon, wood pigeon or collared dove, but it could also be a stock dove.

Keep it warm (80 degrees) and out of draughts for the time being. Don't try to feed it yet. First go to the Home page, click on the Baby Sarah link and try to determine its age. Then go to this site and read it carefully.
http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/babypigeoncare.html 

Check your e-mail, I will send you a diet sheet for pigeons , but a good emergency food for hatchlings of any sort is cat food. I would choose a meat based flavour terrine one. That should have enough moisture in it to satisfy the need for both food and water.

Keep us updated!

Cynthia (Norwich, Norfolk)


[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited May 29, 2004).]


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thanks for getting back to my enquiry so quickly. It's difficult to know how old my bird is because its so bald and the one in the pictures isn't. If I had to guess I'd say that it couldn't be more than a day or two old.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Tim
This bird will die if it doesn't get expert help. Where in the UK are you? I'm in Lancashire.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

I'm in Poole, Dorset.

The bird has picked up slightly in the last few hours, has messed in the box and is moving more. However, it still will not feed.

Am I supposed to force its beak open?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Tim
Baby pigeons do not feed themselves. Rehabbers have to tube a formula directly into the crop. This is why it needs specialist help.
Let me make enquireis and get back to you. Do you have access to a car? In the meantime keeping the baby warm is paramount. A hot water bottle would be great. The bird's body should feel very warm to touch, otherwise body temp will drop quickly and major organs will fail.
Catch you later


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Tim
Your nearest pigeon rehabber that I can find is Alison in Totnes, Devon. Are you able to travel at all?


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

I do drive, but I'm not sure if its really worth the 250mile round trip for a creature with such a small chance of survival?

I think that I must do something at home. How does this buisiness with a tube work?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Tim, I doubt you'll get hold of the equipment you need now - it's Sat evening. You need a syringe and a fine tube to attach to the end of it. And I can't tell you what size you need as I don't have a good idea of the size of the bird. Are you able to email me ([email protected]) a piccy of the bird next to something like a 50p to give me an idea?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

PS
Have spoken on phone with Alison and she can take the bird if you are able. Pigeons do pretty well on tube feeding so it's chances of survival with a rehabber are pretty good.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited May 29, 2004).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Tim,

If you can't get to Alison then Julie's Trust cares for pigeons found in Bristol and Bath, but I doubt that they would turn down a squab, try e-mailing them [email protected] .

Other possibilities are:

> LOVE BIRDS WILDLIFE RESCUE
> Pascal De-Bock. WIMBORNE
> Ph: 01202 872592 . [email protected]
> Voluntary organisation offering help and advice for care of sick, injured or
> orphaned birds.
> 
> MARGARET GREEN FOUNDATION TRUST HQ /CHURCH KNOWLE SANCTUARY
> Mrs Green/Jackie Fraser, Church Knowle , WAREHAM , Dorset , BH20 5NQ
> Ph: 01929 480474 .
> Birds, mammals (including oiled seabirds, fox cubs and fawns.
> 
> PEOPLE'S DISPENSARY FOR SICK ANIMALS - BOURNEMOUTH
> 54-70 Castle Lane , West Moordown , BOURNEMOUTH , Dorset , BH9 3JU
> Ph: 01202 533630 .
> 
> PORTLAND AND WEYMOUTH ANIMAL WELFARE SOCIETY
> Secretary: Betty Austin, 19 Cedar Drive , Preston , WEYMOUTH , Dorset , DT3
> 6DT
> Ph: 01305 833102 .
> Rescues & rehomes dogs, cats, hedgehogs, foxes, birds etc. Non-destruction
> policy. Homes needed.


Cynthia


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

I think the trip to Devon will be too much.

We have obtained a syringe from the chemist but our attempts to feed the chick have failed because it will not open its beak.

How would anybody encourage the chick to open its beak without damaging such a frail neck?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

LOVE BIRDS WILDLIFE RESCUE
> Pascal De-Bock. WIMBORNE
> Ph: 01202 872592 . [email protected]
> Voluntary organisation offering help and advice for care of sick, injured or
> orphaned birds.
Tim,
Try Pascal - super guy. He wouldn't turn it down I don't think.
If the chick is very small a syringe will be too big, you need a tiny tube to attach to the syringe to slip down the throat and right into the crop at the bottom of the neck. Then you can press the plunger and put food directly into his crop. Liqidised baby food like chicken will do for now. You need someone to hold the bird, then you have to stretch the neck up into a straight line, open the beak - you will have to force the beak open as he doesn't know what you are doing to him, then slip the tube down his right side until it goes down into the crop. If you leave the tube in the throat it is too high and there is a risk of aspiration. As he is so young I urge you to contact someone who can take him on. If he is as young as he sounds to be 24 hours without fluids will be enogh for the major organs to start failing.
Hope this helps.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Lou, as we've named him is still going but I guess tonight will be the crunch time.

I have tried to force liquids into him but its very hard. He's a fighter though. Fingers crossed he'll make it.


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

u NEED to get this bird to a specialist that knows how to look after it by the sounds of it if it stays with u it will die if u haven't got ne food into it if it is a pigeon it needs to b feed every 2 to 3 hours. A drive isn't bad u get to see the views just bring it to someone who knows a thing or 2 about baby birds

------------------
Robert


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

YOU ARE SENTENCING THIS BABY TO DEATH IF YOU DO NOT TAKE IT TO KNOWLEDGABLE HANDS.

New babies don't stand a chance without either pigeon parents or knowledgable rehabber.They must have the special pigeon milk diet that only the pigeon parents can give them or people with the know how.

You asked for help, you have got the best people, now go!

Treesa


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

"YOU ARE SENTENCING THIS BABY TO DEATH IF YOU DO NOT TAKE IT TO KNOWLEDGABLE HANDS"
thank you for that.
the baby bird may look like a fighter now but if he doesn't get any food he won't look much like a fighter later.
the baby bird needs food now, not tomorrow.
I PRAY THAT HE MAKES IT!


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

i have a baby thats 12 days old i've had it since birth the only reason i know how to hand feed it is cause i asked my rehab centre and they showed me how to. o yeah if this isn't a pigeon it needs to b feed every three hours even at night so u have to wake up

------------------
Robert


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## Anarrowescape (Jan 6, 2004)

if u wanna know how to open its beak hold the bottom bit if it has enough strength in it it will open it the put the tube top the left side or right but never i the middle and make sure its in the crop not the wind pipe

------------------
Robert


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

He's not listening.
:-(


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thought you'd all like to know that so far Lou is still with us!

He is feeding and taking liquids freely. He can just about stand unaided and waits urgently with his beak open for food.

Thanks for everyones advice (and sinicism) of my attempts. I have to say that I am now beginning to doubt that Lou is actually a pigeon. He could be a blackbird or something similar, unsure.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

He gapes?
Not a pigeon!!
What colour is he?
What colour is the inside of his beak?
What are you feeding him on?

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited May 30, 2004).]


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Oh, and by the way for those that doubt my commitment to this little creature, my wife and I were up all night giving two-hourly feeds. As a result he now appears stronger than ever!

We did try to phone several rehab centres but with no joy. Our local emergency vet told us that if we took him to them, they would put the chick to sleep. He has still has a chance and we're not giving up on him.

Tim.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

He has little colour beyond being his pinkish skin. The inside of his mouth is yellow with a yellow tongue.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Last night he basically had fluids but this morning we tried him on liquidised garden worms and water.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Sounds like a blackbird
Please don't give earthworms- some carry the sygamus trachea parasite which will kill him. Adult blackbirds know which worms are sick- we don't. Substitute food from your kitchen instead, and liquidided will make it too fluidy and you run the risk of aspiration. Choose a diet based on soaked complete dog food - the biscuit type, raw minced beef, grated cheese and boiled egg yolk. Mix together and feed with tweezers. Much better than running the risk of fluid in the lungs. Don't give him water - he will have enough from the food.
Because you have fed him earthworms - please let me know if he starts to pant - or sit there with beak slightly open. I will tell you what to do.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited May 30, 2004).]


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

PS
Please don't feed him liquidised food. Adult blackbirds do not liquidise the food before feeding it to their babies. Pigeons do and that's the big difference.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited May 30, 2004).]


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

He reacts to someone entering the room or lifting the cover off him, by sitting up and apparently asking for more food. He doesn't seem to have any trouble breathing though.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

P.S. We're not feeding every time he asks for food, more like every two hours to allow the crop to empty.

Thanks for the comment about the worms, this will please my wife as she hates them!


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Feed on demand Tim, he doesn't have a crop!  If you don't feed on demand he won't get enough and he'll slowly fade. Each baby in the nest usually gets a beakful every 20mins - 5 to a nest average, that's a trip to the nest with a beakful from each parent every 8 mins- 4 mins with two parents working. Bringing up a family is hard work and most parent birds are looking ragged by the end of the season. It must be a great relief to them to start the moult!


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thanks for that, my wife has just come back from Tesco with the finest steak mince, I'm boiling an egg and the dog biscuits are soaking nicely.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

We'll make an avian chef out of you yet!


[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited May 30, 2004).]


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## devorah (Apr 10, 2002)

That's funny because when I first read that post, I was doubting that he had a pigeon. 

I usually start even little blackbirds (grackles, cowbirds, whatever) off on baby formula and when they're older, wet catfood bits, moistened wheat bread, etc. (Then they graduate to mealworms -- Yummmm!!!)

I just picked up a baby grackle two weeks ago that I found on the white line of a very crowded freeway! I had to circle around twice before I was able to see him. I parked on the side, jumped out of the car, and grabbed the little grackie -- asleep on the white line while 18-wheelers buzzed by at 70mph! I'm happy to report that he's doing wonderfully, and I will most likely be able to release him in two weeks.
I'm glad this man had the determination to keep this baby alive - we are all learning together, and every new experience is a new lesson. 
http://duckpolice.org


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Devorah
Thatis the wrong sort of diet for a European Blackbird. Not enough body building protien in. Wheat and wheat based products such as bread are not suitable for baby blackbirds. Cat food however is fine, as long as it is not the only food given as it is seriously lacking in essential vitamins and can lead to colourless brittle feathering which is useless to the bird.
(We don't have grackles in the UK)


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Well we've been trying the mixture suggested by Nooti and he has taken some but not a great deal. When it was suggested that in the wild blackbirds feed every twenty minutes or so, we stepped up our attempts to feed him. This said, he doesn't seem too interested in it.

Still cheeping constantly and breathing regularly enough. Feels warm to the touch.

In an earlier message (when we thought that we were dealing with a pigeon) it was suggested that the chicks container be kept at 80 degrees. Is this still a good move for other birds?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tim,

Alison and Nooti are the experts on European blackbirds, I hope they will be able to answer your question about heat. I have done some reasearch and 80 degrees would appear to be on the low side for a newly hatched blackbird. Until they can provide specific information just ensure that it feels warm to the touch (including feet) and that it isn't breathing heavily (which could indicate overheating).

What method are you using to keep it warm? Rubber hot water bottles only keep warm for two hours. I have fitted a bulb to an old aquarium which work well to keep squabs at a constant temperature, the same systen should work for blackbirds...but you have to keep the top open for ventilation.

BTW no one doubts your commitment, but very few of us have the expertise needed to care for baby birds and that is the worry...I cared for a starling for about 6 weeks some 20 years ago and lost it because I didn't know what I was doing ...although I know about pigeons I wouldn't know how to care for a baby blackbird.

Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Tim
It depeneds on the age and development of the blackbird. Could do with a piccy so I can tell youwhether the bird should be off heat or not.
As for feeding - you feed on demand - he/she may not need feeding every 20 mins. Remember you are now giving him proper food and it's bulky and also highly nutritious. Also I suspect you will be feeding each time until he stops gaping? If this is so then you will be feeding more than a parent would at each sitting - so he will go longer, which is better for you.
Any chance of a piccy?


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

At the moment the chick is placed in a blanket lined bowl, that is sitting on top of a radiator. The blanket comes over the top of him to preserve the heat and keep him in virtual darkness most of the time. We have left a gap to provide ventilation. 

He is still breathing strongly and with a cheep each time but he seems less inclined to feed than earlier on. He does feel warm to the touch but is very floppy.

I realise that many of you that might read this will consider my efforts foolhardy, as I am not an expert in the field of rearing young birds. However, without being able to contact a rehab centre locally and the vet condemming the chick without even seeing him, just know that my wife and I are determined to do all we can with your support and advice.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thanks for the advice Nooti but I'm sorry to say there is no chance of a photo. Tim


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tim,

The vet might react differently to a blackbird. I don't think they are classified as pests or vermin! Unfortunately it is pigeons that vets reject, it does not apply to all wild birds.

This is Alison's input on the heat question:

Depends how feathered, if it still has a lot of bald patches then 
about 80 is fine, but watch to see if the bird is hot by stretching 
neck out and/ or open beak breathing, preferably give it a shaded 
area to move to if it wants to.

Alison


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

It has virtually no feathering at all, so I guess the radiator will be fine for now.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Tim
Sounds like he is days rather than a week old. And the fact that he has gone floppy is not a good sign. For him to be that young the nest has been raided by a predator. Sounds like he has suffered some small internal injury which was not apparent at first but now effects are showing. If this is the case then there is very ittle one can do - other than battle on. At that age they are not easy. I have one in now who is only 5 days old and I've had him 2! He's proving hard work and I suspect will not make it.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

That's unfortunate news but we'll all keep battling on. He has started to feed a bit more in the last hour or so. I'm not giving up hope.


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## devorah (Apr 10, 2002)

Hey, so what's a European blackbird? When I read "blackbird" I was thinking of our redwing blackbird -- a little tiny beautiful bird. Is it a crow? raven? ostrich? ;-) something else? 
No grackles in the UK? You don't know what you're missing !!


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Our blackbirds are members of the thrush family. As for having no grackles - well, we don't miss em. We got jackdaws! ROTFL!


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thought that you might like to know that 'Lou' is still going strong and is developing nice little wings too.

My wife and I had another largely sleepless night, getting up to feed him every two hours, but he doesn't seem to want more than this.

This might be a silly question but do chicks normally get fed during the night? We're not usually up to observe the feeding habits of local bird life, but I didn't think that blackbirds were nocturnal?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That is a very good question, Tim! I know sometimes blackbirds (amongst others) will still sing after dark if there's street lamps - but I wouldn't have thought they would normally seek food at night. And if they only forage from dawn to dusk, then they couldn't feed their young at night, would seem logical to me.

John


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

They are built to eat in the day when they can find food. The adults would have limited storage capacity without a crop. The wild birds I see feed the youngsters directly the food they forage for, but of course these are fledglings. After a few days I would imagine you could feed it early and late without night feedings. How many days till then Helen?


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Thanks for the info about the night time feeds. We'll see how we go and perhaps drop the 3am feed eventually.

Lou has really picked up in the last few hours. Although it means that two grown adults are now waiting hand and foot on a bird, we're really chuffed. You could say we're 'CHIRPY'. Its like being proud parents.

He wants feeding every 20-30 minutes and announces his demands with quite a different chirp. He also stands to be fed.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Ah, bless!!!!









It amazes me to see how baby birds steal human hearts!


Cynthia


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Lou is still going strong, in fact stronger each day. It is safe to say now that he is definitely not a pigeon, but a beautiful European blackbird. His dark wing feathers are developing at an incredible rate and we can see the beginings of other feather groups sprouting in places all over his body.

Thanks to all who have been good enough to respond to my messages on this topic. I don't think any of us would have gotten this far without your advice.


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Oh I forgot to say that we think from what we have been able to find out, that Lou was a day old when I found him in the garden.

Its amazing to think that something so small and cold as he was, has come so far! Not that I'm counting my chickens just yet.

Nooti's recipe for baby bird food seems to have done the trick.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Tim
Glad to hear hings are going well, and no - you don't need to feed at night. You do however really need to feed dawn till dusk - that's what the parents do, but at this time of the year that really only puts the 3am feeding back one hour!


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

As time has moved on and Lou develops more and more plumage, it is begining to become clear that he is not a pigeon, blackbird, sparrow or grackle. By all accounts he will eventually become a song thrush.

He has survived over a week and has changed so much since I found him so naked and cold. My wife and I cannot believe the speed of his development but I guess its necessary when you're a wild bird.

We have been feeding him on a recipe suggested by Nooti (dog biscuits, mince, egg yolk and cheese) and up to now this has proven to be fine. However, in the last day or so he has taken to spitting this back out again. Is this normal and is the recipe suitable as a bird progresses into a fledgling state?

His poop is also becoming more green than white, a sign that he's not eating enough I think?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Tim
Yes the diet is suitable - even for adult members of the thrush family. What makes you think he is a song thrush? Thrush body feathers are a mid to light brown. You described them as very dark brown. That spells blackbird to me. Are you going by speckled breast? Because baby blackbirds have speckled breasts, and so do adult hens to some degree. Only the males are black.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited June 07, 2004).]


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Hi Nooti,
He definitely has a lighter brown appearance, but you're right in that until he has his full plumage we won't know for sure. He could yet turn out to be a starling for example.

Do you think that his lack of appetite might be due to some faddy adolescent stage?

Yesterday, after my wife and I had been to church we had another surprise. When we returned to the car, there sitting on the driver's side rubber window surround, was another thrush fledgling. This one must have just swooped out of a tree and landed there, and you will be pleased to know that this one we simply released in the safety of the churchyard. What a coincidence though! And there were 250 miles between the two birds.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tim,

I am so glad that Lou is okay!

I am really looking forward to finding out what he really is. My first rescue ever was a starling and although he was fully feathed I didn't have a clue as to what he was! Starlings are such plucky little survivors, with bags of personanlity!


Cynthia


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

As mystery boy approaches adult size, the quantity of food he needs will drop to a maintenance level. Does he eat energetically just gets full quicker? Does he spit out right away or after eating a while?

[This message has been edited by dano7 (edited June 07, 2004).]


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## tim (May 29, 2004)

Lou will at times eat quite large amounts of food in a sitting. Other times he takes just a bit before spitting out anything else offered.

He is now preening quite a bit and displaying a natural fear response when he's not hungry. He can stand on his gangly little legs but seems to spend much of his time squatting in his bowl. His feet appear to be a bit hooked and he's not really comfortable standing on them. We have provided a small cage, where he has the option to investigate and practise flapping but he doesn't seem overly interested in doing this. Is this normal?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Due to the length of this thread, I'm going to close it & open a continuation thread.
Cindy


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