# Piebald genetics



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Hi Everyone, Im a novice genetics nut, Have been reading a lot of Ron and Franks websites and have an understanding of the basics but still have a LOT to learn. Pied or Piebald seems to be a mystery, 

I am guessing there are a lot of different types which makes understanding the genetics diffucult, Is this correct?

Also is it possible to breed a self white of pieds? 

I know of recessive whites and homozygous grizzle, Ash red birds, preferably with spread and even dilute but have never heard of " Pied Whites"

Any help on this would be appreciated.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Pied genes are said to be one of the least understood and also somewhat complicated. Self white with pied genes should be possible. I had a white male (masking blue) which had no single color feather on it, not even a pencil line thin stroke but had one eye split for bull. If it was not for the eye color in the quarter portion of one eye, it would have been easily mistaken for a homogeneous recessive white.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

thepigeonkey said:


> Hi Everyone, Im a novice genetics nut, Have been reading a lot of Ron and Franks websites and have an understanding of the basics but still have a LOT to learn. Pied or Piebald seems to be a mystery,
> 
> I am guessing there are a lot of different types which makes understanding the genetics diffucult, Is this correct?
> 
> ...


The pied genes are really a mystery, as you said. There are an unknown number of piebald genes, and probably some genes that cause a little white to be come a lot of white.

A simple rule of thumb which most of the old hand breeders follow is that pied markings which are not stable (in the way that Gazzi, bald-head and white-flights are stable) tend to increase with successive generations of breeding pied to pied. White (or near white) birds can be bred in this way, and have been in the past.

These pied whites might no breed true, and some offspring of 2 pure 'pied whites' may show some colour. This effect can be minimised in a flock by *strong* selection *against* parents that have coloured offspring. (in other words selecting for parents who are 'more' pied). Often pied and recessive white are carried by pure white birds, so I would call most of the whites I've seen in homers and fantails 'pied whites'. I never mated two supposed recessive white carriers (pied youngsters from white x blue bar) together to even make sure that the whites were in fact recessive whites. I wonder if anyone here have bred two blue bar birds (without a single pied bird in their ancestry) together and had a pure white baby and never any pied babies? This is supposed to be possible with recessive white.

By the way, ash-red grizzles have similar trouble, since some of the homozygous grizzle ash-red bar youngsters might show some red (especially in the neck area). I assume that here selection will not make a difference, since it is a effect of grizzle, which has a somewhat variable expression.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks, You are right with the grizzle, I have an ashred grizzle frillback, Completely white, Paired to another ash red **** grizzle and not yet got any plain whites, All have a little red on the neck and head. Good to know I may eventually get to white with my gay pied thiefs. Thanks again


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