# new loft cleaning question



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi all. I'am new here and hope to learn. I'am building a new loft 8x16 and having three areas. two 8x6, and the middle one 8x4. now about scraping poop. do i make openings at floor level for each compartment to push the poop out? also i thought it can house 60 birds? I do not want to over crowd. also the trap, I want to put it in the aviary and use the aviary when open, as the landing board. how large of a bob trap sould i use? thanks.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

We actually keep a bucket in the loft and put all the poop in that, then dump it in the woods. We had a small loft up in MI and it had a "poop shute" in the floor, but then it would build up and you would wind up having to get a shovel and pick it up anyway. So, it really depends on if you want to do a little work every day or a lot of work once a month.  

As far a birds in your space, the 8 X 6 should hold around 22 to 24 birds and the 4 X 8 would hold around 12 to 15, so that's pretty close to 60, give or take. 
A rule of thumb that I've always heard is that you should 1 1/2 perches for every bird. Also, depending on what you keeping in the three sections plays a part on how many birds you can or rather should keep. 
What are you using the three sections for?
Oh, the trap. You can make that any size you want to. I guess you'll use the bobs? They are single so you can put up 6 or 20....just depends on how you want to do it.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

thanks! the middle section for breeders and the two on the ends one for trained birds and the other for yb. that is what i had in mind anyway. the bob trap I think looks easy to put in. I thought they came in differnt size openings?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

We have an aviary, rather than a loft, but of course we still get loadsa poop 

We scrape boxes and the floor of the flight pen most days and turn the poop into compost. I don't know if you call them compost bins or some other name, but that's where it goes. Great nitrogen fertiliser!

John


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> thanks! the middle section for breeders and the two on the ends one for trained birds and the other for yb. that is what i had in mind anyway. the bob trap I think looks easy to put in. I thought they came in differnt size openings?


If you actually buy a trap, then yes, they do come in certain sizes, but the bobs simply hang on a rod, so if you build your own, you can make it any size to accomadate the amount of bobs you want hanging. What ever way you have to loft set up is up to you. 
So, you're breeders will be together all the time? One end section for older trained, flying birds and one end section for young birds? Sorry for all the questions, but if you haven't started building yet.........now's a good time to figure out everything. Trust me.......and everyone else on here who's built a loft will tell you the same.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

John_D said:


> We scrape boxes and the floor of the flight pen most days and turn the poop into compost. I don't know if you call them compost bins or some other name, but that's where it goes. Great nitrogen fertiliser!
> 
> John


Hey John, do you use a special kind of container for that? I want to start composting mine (no not mine, my PIGEON'S!) I may be having a senior moment, as I think there was a thread on here about how to do this..but I don't recall the info.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> If you actually buy a trap, then yes, they do come in certain sizes, but the bobs simply hang on a rod, so if you build your own, you can make it any size to accomadate the amount of bobs you want hanging. What ever way you have to loft set up is up to you.
> So, you're breeders will be together all the time? One end section for older trained, flying birds and one end section for young birds? Sorry for all the questions, but if you haven't started building yet.........now's a good time to figure out everything. Trust me.......and everyone else on here who's built a loft will tell you the same.


i thought i would use the breeding section for the hens after the breeding season. I get it now about the bobs, I was looking at a frame with the bobs already in place. also, box perches vs A perches. any input is great!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> Hey John, do you use a special kind of container for that? I want to start composting mine (no not mine, my PIGEON'S!) I may be having a senior moment, as I think there was a thread on here about how to do this..but I don't recall the info.


Yes, we have heavy bins of some kind of rubbery-plastic material, supplied by the city council (helping us be green), with a lid but no bottom. We just stand them on the bare earth. They have a small detachable door near the bottom to shovel the finished compost out. They are shaped like a Dalek from 'Doctor Who' (if that ever made TV across the pond).

Many years back, my father had a compost heap which was just four corrugated metal sides and an old wooden door as the lid.

The pigeon poop and any kind of vegetation which will rot down goes in there.

John


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> i thought i would use the breeding section for the hens after the breeding season. I get it now about the bobs, I was looking at a frame with the bobs already in place. also, box perches vs A perches. any input is great!


What are you going to do with the cocks?
And my vote is for box perches. I hate the V-perches..........the birds always look to uncomfortable to me. But, that's JMO.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> What are you going to do with the cocks?
> And my vote is for box perches. I hate the V-perches..........the birds always look to uncomfortable to me. But, that's JMO.


Ok, now my brain is working better. I will have to keep the cocks on the opposite side, so, the yb will go in the middle.?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> Ok, now my brain is working better. I will have to keep the cocks on the opposite side, so, the yb will go in the middle.?


Ok. Maybe a better question would be, what are these birds for? Pets, racing, etc????


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Ok. Maybe a better question would be, what are these birds for? Pets, racing, etc????


they will be for pet/ hobbie and release buisness. racing in the future.? I may get the bug one day. i hope your guys make it back. this weather today stinks!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> they will be for pet/ hobbie and release buisness. racing in the future.? I may get the bug one day. i hope your guys make it back. this weather today stinks!


Thank you. I'm still waiting and watching. 

Well, let me run all of this by you and then you can decide how you want to proceed.
It's a good idea to separate your breeders for at least part of the year. If you don't, they will breed just about all year long. That of course doesn't mean you will have babies all year, as you can use dummy eggs, but it takes a lot out of a hen to lay continously. So, IF you separate, you need a section for the cocks and a section for the hens. 
A section for the young birds obviously is a must. But......those young birds DO grow up and after a year, you'll have all these older birds AND babies. It's best that the young birds are not put in with the older birds so that they can learn what they are supposed to learn with all the other babies. If you plan when you are going to raise babies, then while the breeders are together, the older flying birds could go in one section and the young birds in the other section. Now, when you separate your breeders, that will put both the older flying birds and the youngsters in the same section. If you've gotten the younger birds trained, then you're ok, but I doubt that the young birds would be trained at this point, so, now........to train the young birds, you've got to keep the older birds inside the loft while the younger ones go out. If you put them all out together, there's a good chance the older birds will take off.....the young ones will try to follow and may or may not be able to keep up and the possibility of loosing some of the young ones is very likely. 
Besides all of this, the older birds will start to pair up if the sexes aren't separated, and if they only have perches, they'll start nesting in the floor, so it would be a good idea to be able to separate the flyers too. I'm really not trying to complicate things......it's just that these things need to be considered BEFORE a loft is built.
Now.....as far as your breeders. The section that has the nest boxes is where the cocks should be kept and the hens section should only have perches. If you put a bunch of hens in a section with nest boxes, they will start to pair up, build nests and lay eggs. Also, the sections where the breeders are should be built according to the maximum amount of birds you'll have in there. Say you've got 10 pairs of birds. Well 10 cocks and 10 hens is fine, but when they are together in the breeding section, now you've got 20 birds...plus all the babies. In my smaller loft, the cocks section will hold 30 birds (15 pairs) but the hens section will only hold 15 birds. 
Confused yet???


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Boy, we've come a long way from talking about a hole in the floor to scoop poop out of!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wow.... o.k., the yb will be both sexes together untill trained and then they can be seperated with the ob, and the cocks should be kept in the breeder section because of the nest boxes. whew, did i get it?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> wow.... o.k., the yb will be both sexes together untill trained and then they can be seperated with the ob, and the cocks should be kept in the breeder section because of the nest boxes. whew, did i get it?


Yep, that's about it. I'll tell you, one thing that would make this much simpler is to start with young birds and break them to your loft. Then use them as breeders to raise your babies. In other words, don't have any prisoners. If you can keep only birds in your loft that are trained to your loft, then you don't have to worry about letting a prisoner bird escape. It would make separating much easier. ALL the cocks, whether they are breeders or flyers can always be let out of the loft, even if they don't actually race or go on the releases. Same with the hens. 
See, with those of us that race, most all of our breeders are what we call prisoners. They can never be let out to fly, so we have to keep our flyers separate from the breeders, therefore we have many sections for our birds. Two for breeders, two for racers, at least one and usually two for young birds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks Renee, I appreciate this help. I will be getting a kit of 30 yb to start so I think that is a good start with those, I hope. training in summer may get hot, but I will go slow. thanks again!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> Thanks Renee, I appreciate this help. I will be getting a kit of 30 yb to start so I think that is a good start with those, I hope. training in summer may get hot, but I will go slow. thanks again!


No problem. Good luck with them.


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