# Another bird ID, anyone know?



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I was given this bird by some folks on behalf of their neighbor who found it
one day in her driveway. This hen was banded and the bird was no longer
wanted by the owner when called. The finder must have taken the band off
as when it was given to me their was no band on the leg.

Does anyone know what kind of bird Hennie is?

http://family.webshots.com/album/561304438kCrKVS

She's a small bird and weighs about 200 grams...

Thanks,

fp


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

Looks like a roller or a tumbler. But sounds like a roller as I have raised both and the rollers are always lighter. 

It has nice white flights though  hopefully george will stop by and shed some light on this.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

fp, I'm about 99.9 % sure that Hennie is a Domestic Show Flight. She is quite a lovely bird and looks possibly show marked from what I can see. Looks like a good example of the breed. They are cute little plumpkins. I'm surprised the owner didn't want her back. They are not all that common.

Margaret







feralpigeon said:


> Does anyone know what kind of bird Hennie is?
> She's a small bird and weighs about 200 grams...
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Margarret said:


> fp, I'm about 99.9 % sure that Hennie is a Domestic Show Flight. She is quite a lovely bird and looks possibly show marked from what I can see. Looks like a good example of the breed. They are cute little plumpkins. I'm surprised the owner didn't want her back. They are not all that common.
> 
> Margaret


You are saying that Hennie is the same breed as Lance the mate in the cage?
Lance is a rescue from this forum who is banded and the owner didn't want
him. I traced him w/the help of Treesa and Terry to the President of the
club in NYC and he didn't want him back. Gave me info on where I could get
him a mate locally.
Hennie was banded apparently but the finder must have taken the band
off when the owner relinquished ownership. They were an older couple who
owned birds and took the bird in but the husband had failing health and 
the neighbors (who made this all happen) approached me asking if I would take the bird. 

Hennie seems so much smaller than Lance, I just wasn't sure. They are really
very well suited for each other and it was almost love at first sight. She is
a sweetheart and bonded w/the finders laying 6 eggs while she was there.
I don't know what to say about the original owner. There was no band on the leg when the neighbor gave her to me.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BTW, Margaret, what does showmarked mean? 

fp


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

I agree, Hennie is a Domestic Show Flight.

I say, I agree because of the other pictures I have seen. Also Hennie reminded me of someone and then it hit me.

Hennie looks like this beauty!!! OK, sorta!

Yep, Griffen is a Pygmy Pouter/Domestic Show Flight cross !
See his pretty flight feathers , he just got done with his bath in the picture . 

I looked up on Demestic show flights after I got him, and remembered all the pictures I looked up.

-Hilly


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hillybean said:


> I agree, Hennie is a Domestic Show Flight.
> 
> I say, I agree because of the other pictures I have seen. Also Hennie reminded me of someone and then it hit me.
> 
> ...


Hilly, the other pij in the pics is a Domestic Show Flight as well.
I'm tickled to death if she's a Domestic Show Flight  It all makes sense
to me why it was just so natural for them after seeing Lance interact w/ferals, lol....She is so much more fragile than Lance.

fp


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

FP,
I just took a better look at Lance (the last photo). Yep, he looks like one too. At least their heads and beaks look similar.
Do you by chance have a pic of him standing up??

Hennie, looks like a Domestic Show Flight to me.
George for sure will know.

Of course she is fragile, she is a girl ! He's the tough guy and she is the girly girl .

That's REALLY awsome if they are both Domestic Show Flights. 
-Hilly


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> BTW, Margaret, what does showmarked mean?
> 
> fp


fp,

Yes, Hennie and Lance are the same breed and also the same color family. Show marked means they conform to the color specifics in the breed standard. Domestic Show Flights must have at least six white primary flights on each wing and twelve solid color(not white)tail feathers. Lance is a red teager(which is what the mixed red white is called). Lance may be a mis mark or have some other show flaw which is why the breeder didn't want him back. They are a small breed so don't worry about her size. Here is a link to the Australian club so you can see more of the breed. For some reason the New York Combine site is kaput. They are the original people that developed this breed. 

You have a very beautiful pair there. They are quite loving and affectionate birds. One word of caution though, don't let them try and raise babies. They don't do well at this. It's as if they only got half the reproduction instructions right. They will sit their eggs just fine, but once the babies hatch the parents tend to abandon them or throw them out of the nest. To breed these guys you have to use foster parents and its kind of tricky. I didn't know that when I started and had some really bad moments till I was able to foster the squeakers with another breed.

If you get a moment, take a picture of Lance standing in profile. I think he is capped (the little feather ruff at the back of the head)as well. I can't tell from the photo. He is too far away. She is capped. They can be either capped or plainhead.

I'm really excited for you to have such a serendipitous event happen. Hennie is a perfect mate for Lance. 

Margaret


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hilly, here's an old picture of Lance shortly after he arrived. He's a very
elegant fellow  ...fp


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Duh, I forgot to send the link to the Australian Show Flight Club. Here it is.http://www.geocities.com/teagercap/pigeonsflightclub.htm

Now that I see Lance a bit better, I think he is a plainhead. If you look at the Aussie pictures you will be able to tell the difference.

Margaret


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Margarret said:


> fp,
> 
> Yes, Hennie and Lance are the same breed and also the same color family. Show marked means they conform to the color specifics in the breed standard. Domestic Show Flights must have at least six white primary flights on each wing and twelve solid color(not white)tail feathers. Lance is a red teager(which is what the mixed red white is called). Lance may be a mis mark or have some other show flaw which is why the breeder didn't want him back. They are a small breed so don't worry about her size. Here is a link to the Australian club so you can see more of the breed. For some reason the New York Combine site is kaput. They are the original people that developed this breed.
> 
> ...



Margaret, I shouldn't be thinking babies....but the thought keeps dancing
in the back of my head  I have no one to foster for these two, though they are incredibly attentive to sitting on fake eggs  Not to mention the fact that space and time is an issue because of the rescues
I take in.

Lance was owned by the president of the New York Combine and he (the presidents) also offered to hook me up w/local clubs where I could find more birds of Lance's breed. Lance has no crest in the way that Hennie does, but he has that hooded look to the feathering over the shoulders. Yes, indeedy....just so very serendipitous for Lance and me both. These two are like two peas in a pod. Funny, after they first mated w/each other, Lance
'marched/danced/ran' back and forth in the cage ringing the bell every time
he passed it. He was just so over the top, lol.

Here's a link to a pretty good site for Domestic Show Flights that I found when I first started trying to track down Lance's original owner:

http://www.ains.net.au/~roller/new_page_1.htm

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Margaret, that's the other link that I was looking for to post. I found the Australian site when I first took Lance in, and realized that this was an ID for Lance's breed and a possible lead to the bands on his legs. There hadn't been any luck tracing the bands at that point. I emailed the secretary of that club, Rory, who responded w/the information that I needed to contact the New York club. He gave me the name of the secretary to that club, and I believe it was Terry who found a home phone for the fellow as I had no luck w/emailing the man. So, it took the Australian club's help to get the info on the New York club, and it was the pictures at their site, and the mention of the New York Combine
(the untracable band on Lance's ankle) that ultimately led to tracking down the true first owner of the bird. That's Lance's story, Hennie's is still a bit of a mystery to me.

fp


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> Margaret, I shouldn't be thinking babies....but the thought keeps dancing
> in the back of my head  I have no one to foster for these two, though they are incredibly attentive to sitting on fake eggs  Not to mention the fact that space and time is an issue because of the rescues
> I take in.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link. It is a good one. The president was most likely Sal Gigante. He is a terrific guy and so generous with his birds. He donates birds all the time to various clubs so people can get started with this breed.I got to meet him and many other members of the New York Combine when the NPA had their show here in So. Calif. two years back. 

I am so delighted for you (and them) that they paired up so well. Your description of Lance ringing his bell has me in stitches. I acquired my first Flight when one flew into our yard and was trying to get into the garage window. It was love at first sight. He paired with a little roller hen and I don't have the heart to separate them as they are so happy with each other. It was several years before I was able to find other SFs. They are still pretty rare here on the west coast. I was never able to find his owner. 

If you want to connect with other Show Flight People in your area let me know and I'll see what I can find. I know John Hepner is up towards you. He is a Master Breeder. And I know there is at least one other person in the bay area. There is a Western Domestic Show Flight Club which is a branch of the New York Combine.

Margaret


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

They look so cute and huggible, I just love the looks of these two.   LOVE the redhead!!!!  

You want babies? Send me some eggs next March, fp, and I'll coordinate one or two of my couples to hatch them. They are usually in full swing nesting mode by then, well....actually...it never stops around here....just better time of year.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Absolutely cute and dignified at the same time (can you be both?  ) Loved the bell-ringing story. Who says pigeons don't have a sense of humor and timing


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Margaret, thanks for that offer and all of your information on this breed. I remember a fellow here had mentioned Red Tieger back when the add was 
first posted and that was also a lead that I googled. I'm lucky you are so 
knowledgable on this breed. Yes I think that was the name of the man in New
York that I spoke with over the phone. He was very kind and generous and
we spoke for the best part of a half hour.

Treesa, I wish I could watch the babies grow up here...you know that is just
so much a part of the 'baby' thing  . Still, I'm gonna hold you to that and
just may take you up on the offer come spring. Now...two red heads w/white,
what will the babies possibly be?  

fp


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

fp, 

Ya just don't know what these kids are hiding. I have black teagers. So last spring when my babies hatched and began getting their feathers, what do I find but a red one!!! Seems poppa was carrying a gene for this as was mama, even though she looked black and white. I'm told the males carry two genes for color and the hens one. Most likely though, you will get reds.They are such cuties, round and plump like little feathered balls. And extremely affectionate with each other. I bet they are doing a lot of nuzzling and preening of each other. Maybe even squeezing into the nest together. The reds are really what are taking the top prizes lately in the shows. Lance and Hennie are both really nice examples of the breed.

Margaret


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Interesting story about your black teagers, Margaret, and you had to also 
find foster parents for the babies? I guess you don't know what genes
will get thrown out when a pair breeds, and afterall, that's part of the fun
for us, too. How many SF do you have and do you show them?

Mary, I thought Lance's timing was impeccable. He seemed very knowledgable
as to exactly WHY he was ringing that bell....'cause Hennie had just finished ringing his bell!' Honestly, that was just so adorable that day.

Teresa, that really is just so nice of you to offer surrogate parenting for
Lance and Hennie, I can't thank you enough for your generous offer. Who
knows, maybe Margaret will want some more babies....one thing is for sure,
you'd have to take lots of pictures, lol.

fp


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> Interesting story about your black teagers, Margaret, and you had to also
> find foster parents for the babies? I guess you don't know what genes
> will get thrown out when a pair breeds, and afterall, that's part of the fun
> for us, too. How many SF do you have and do you show them?


Yes, I had to foster them to some West of Englands to raise. The hard part is to have the SFs and the foster parents lay at the same time. That way the eggs are switched to under the fosters and they have pigeon milk for them. My first time when I didn't know this, my SFs did feed their babies for a week. Then they abandoned them. I was frantic till I tucked them under the WOEs. Fortunately the foster birds took right over and they were old enough to thrive on the seed diet.
When you breed a pair, unless you know the linage of your birds, it is always possible to get surprised. I have fifteen SF and sixteen assorted other breeds (read rescues) in my loft. I'm not going to breed more SFs for now. My loft is nearly maxed out. I have shown them a bit and got a 1st 2nd and 3rd at the county fair last summer. But I'm small potatoes compared to most breeders. I was going to enter the Pagent of Pigeons but the fires and aftermath sort of botched that. There is always next year. 

I have a beautiful black spread racing cock,a rescue, whose band was removed prior to my getting him. George says he is an extremely good bird. He is kindly going to lend me a good hen next spring so I can breed him. I'll let him have the squeakers when they are weaned if he wants them, or they will go to someone who needs youngsters to train. I'm sure many people lost their birds as a result of the fires around here. That way I can have the fun of raising babies and not overpopulate my loft at the same time. 

Margaret


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Margaret,
I hope thaif you give birds to folks that lost birds during the recent fires in California, that you give them to folks that have since devised an escape plan for their birds too. I think its important to have a plan that doesn't involve letting the birds go to fend for themselves in a disaster.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Teresa, that really is just so nice of you to offer surrogate parenting for
> Lance and Henny, I can't thank you enough for your generous offer. Who
> knows, maybe Margaret will want some more babies....one thing is for sure,
> you'd have to take lots of pictures, lol.
> ...



I would be most happy to help, and of course pictures is a must. Timing is everything, and I have usually got several couples in various stages of "dummy" incubation. Let me know well in advance so I can start recording the dates of the incubation times. If you rather keep the "kids" in your neighborhood, I certainly can't blame you.   This is quite EGGciting!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Absolutely cute and dignified at the same time (can you be both?  ) Loved the bell-ringing story. Who says pigeons don't have a sense of humor and timing


Don't know about humor, Mary, but, I CAN understand the - uh - "timing!" ROFL It's like fp said, Lance knew when to "ring the bell!"   

What a great thread and what a GREAT "love" story! Can't wait for future "episodes" with "family" updates!

Love, Hugs and Scritches to ALl

Shi


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Charis said:


> Margaret,
> I hope that you give birds to folks that lost birds during the recent fires in California, that you give them to folks that have since devised an escape plan for their birds too. I think its important to have a plan that doesn't involve letting the birds go to fend for themselves in a disaster.


I agree with you Charis. I started an new thread about this.

Margaret


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