# canker? or



## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

Hello

Looks like one of the squeekers given to me last weekend has canker! :
( as it is having trouble breathing and is getting that nasty cheese
like resadue on his beak~! as stated in my pigeon book) anyways i just
got my 3 in one prevantative for canker & worms and one other
sickness. I Mixxed it in their water and gave it to them. Should i
take a dropper and drop a few drops of the mixxed water in the sick
birds mouth? Let me know. thnx


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I would do that, to make sure he gets enough of the medicine

Reti


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Canker*

Seperate ill birds and start your meds. Make sure sick bird eats and drinks. It not then help your bird. When you get new birds they need to be seperated for at least a month before they can be mixed with your other birds. The month gives you time to see if any diseases will show up.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

Seperating the ill bird from the others is a good idea, but not being 100% sure of your set-up and if the ill bird has been exposed to any other birds you have, you'll probably want to put all of them on meds... over to the true experts here to say "yeay" or "neay" to that... but I'd think the whole flock on VitaKing 5 in 1 would be the call. As for the ill bird, I think I'd seperate it out, offer it regular (plain) water to drink, but would be giving it pills for canker daily... I've got Medpet 4 in 1 Tabs on hand for Canker, E. Coli, Paratyphoid & Coccidiosis.

<edit> ... if you do seperate out the ill bird and do put it on something like 4 in 1, after the perscribed dosage/treatment period for that is up, you may want to keep the bird seperated out for a round of probiotics... was my next thought...


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

How do i make sure its canker and not something else? his eyes look
fine just black and round wide open his nostrils also look fine its
just him gasping for air and noticed this cheese like nasty stuff (comming from the sides of his mouth but i whipped it off now).
From reading my book it seems to be canker. ALso from reading my
book i learned that we can get some sicknesses from pigeons? how
common does this happen? Ive never once been sick from an animal in
my life !

I thoguht things were going so well all my birds seemed so healhty all have been trained to come in and out of their cage and i have not even lost a SINGLE bird~! Anyways hopefully hear from some more experienced people.
Thanks 4 ur time 


PS: the bird has NOt had any contact with my flock what so ever he/she has been in a totally seperate area.


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

hello

The nasty stuff is comming out of the side of his mouth. I just looked at him right now opened his mouth andl ooked in i see at the back of his mouth white bubbly stuff??? He/she also makes these wierd noises whenever i pig him up its like a horse sound but maybe thats just cause he cant breath properly? oh yeah sorry ekk I just realized there was a special forum for sick pigeons


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you take a picture of an open beak and post it? White, bubbly stuff doesn't sound right unless it's froth from not being about to breath properly because his trachea is obstructed.

There are other possibilities of respiratory problems but you'd need to observe other signs like a nasal discharge, conjuctivitis (red and swollen under the eyelids) and that kind of thing.

Actually, that sounds really bad and he probably needs all the help you can give him to make him comfortable. If it's gapeworms, you'd need a vet and soon.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Think you might need anti-biotics, have any on hand? How are poops?


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

Hello

I had a digital but it was returned wish i still had it  OK well i looked at him well His eyes seem fine his feet seem fine his vent seems normal also for a squeeker hes missing feathers around his beak face area but thats normal for a young 8 week old squeeker. When birds have canker and have trouble breathing a raspy breathing sound is common correct?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Cateyes,

I've never particularly noticed raspy breathing sounds or difficulty breathing from/with canker. When you look inside the birds mouth, are you looking at mucous? Are there strand(s) from bottom area to top when opened?

What you are calling canker on beak sounds like mucousy matter that you wiped away, is that so?

Inside, are there "cheesy" growths seemingly afixed to or part of gum area?


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

I've never particularly noticed raspy breathing sounds or difficulty breathing from/with canker. When you look inside the birds mouth, are you looking at mucous? 

yes it looks like bubbly mucus white at the inside of his throat. 

Are there strand(s) from bottom area to top when opened? no strands at all that ive noticed

What you are calling canker on beak sounds like mucousy matter that you wiped away, is that so? 

well yes but the stuff looked he had abeen eating cheese and had some stuck on the corners of his mouth. 

Inside, are there "cheesy" growths seemingly afixed to or part of gum area? 

I ONly noticed one spot where it Looked like a small tiny piece of cottage cheese was stuck in the corner of his beak (inside) 

Thanks so much for your help For some reason it wont let me post unless i lengthen my message


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cateyes, 

Take a look at Cynthia's photo of canker....This is not the only area that can be affected inside the mouth but it will give you an idea. Sounds like canker to me though from your description.

http://community.webshots.com/album/233710387NvclMK


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, if you are treating for canker, you should see some results.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

It sounds like canker to me too, though he may have more than one ailment. Canker is the most frequently seen disease in pigeons and is caused by a parasite.

As to catching diseases from your pigeons, it's very unlikely. The only thing I know of that you could potentially catch is ornithosis, which can also be transmitted from parrots to humans (another name for it is psittacosis). But as I understand it, it's not common and if you practice good hygiene you're unlikely to get it. The most common pigeon diseases are harmful only to pigeons.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

If it's not canker, then pox perhaps....pox lesions are easier to remove and will bleed if disturbed. Canker is harder and not easily removed.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, there is a respiratory related infection that also has white/yellow deposits, and bird is currently "gasping".


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

Hey

Well i Looked at the picture its hard to tell weather or not thats exactly what he she has it does look SOMEwhat similair but i dont know what would explian the CONSANT wheezing? especially when i pick him/her up??? its like this raspoing noise So Now after reading more im starting to think it could be Ornithosis or Mycoplasmosis cause wheezing throat inflamtion is all stated in their sympyoms  Could also be internal pox but someone told me before that its pretty rare? Just curious are all the above mentioned sicknesses common? The only medication i currently have is globals multi mix (3 in one) do you think regardless of what the problem is this will help?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd go ahead w/what you have right now, as respiratory illnesses can be a combination of things anyway. Don't know that it would be something necessarily that severe. See if you notice improvement of gasping sound w/meds on hand.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The only thing that I could find that meets this description in the big book is the mention of mycotic infections. "Clinical signs with acute mycotic tracheitis include dyspnea (mild to severe) and a white discharge originating from the glottis. Fungal hyphae may be seen cytologically in specimens taken from the choana or trachea. Tail-bobbing and peracute severe respiratory distress are common with chronic lower respiratory tract involvement if the passages from the air sacs to the lung is occluded." [sic]

Translation: Certain fungi can set up shop in the respiratory tract and make breathing really difficult by blocking off the piping. When this happens, there is a resultant white discharge that'd remind you of a dog foaming at the mouth and it comes from deep out of the blowhole behind the base of the tongue. The way to tell is with labwork performed on a fresh sample of the white discharge where appendages like stalks and bulbs may be seen microscopically.

Mycotic organisms include aspergillus species, which, if I read the text aright, would be the most likely, given the symptoms. When I got into pigeons, I remember getting this little book that (at the time) seemed so complete and authoritative. I think it listed about 10 different diseases that pigeons could get. Well, that belief's blown way the h*** and gone out of the water now.

Aspergillosis, for instance, has a bunch of different presentations because of the different ways that it can invade. It's the aflatoxin that it creates that is bad and a bird can eat grain with a buildup of the toxin and destroy the liver without demonstrating the respiratory aspect so much or it can be just like your bird because it got a dose of the spores and it was immunocompromised as the same time. Hard to say. That's why the medical literature is so incredibly voluminous.

Anyway, if the exudate were more green, it would indicate more of a bacterial infection. The bottom line is this bird needs a vet with some lab in the worst way to be on the safe side because he might not make it very long otherwise. When breathing gets really difficult, it will take a bird down really fast.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Mixing*

Can canker meds be mixed with antibotic to take care of canker and respirtory infections? Or should they be given seperate?


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

hello

Okay today his symptoms have DEF not gotten worse but i dont know if they are better or not? i noticed he does not wheeze UNLESS i pick him upl. I have kept up with giving him the global multi mix this morning and today i also caught him flapping his wings in his cage and getting air born for 2 seconds then stopping (AS HE Is in a seperate cage to small to fly in) I hope that is a good sign?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, personally, I always hope for the best and that sounds better than a bird fighting for each breath. I just get as ready to jump as I can be if it heads toward the worst. I've said this a million times that these things always like to wait to ramp up until the weekend is coming on and your chance of getting an appointment with the vet <RIGHT NOW!> is impossible.

Some of the upper respiratory problems can get worse gradually. There's even one that will seem to get better for awhile with medication and then takes a rapid downhill turn, so it's real hard to say. Hopefully, it's trichomoniasis that's caused an upper esophageal swelling that has put pressure on the trachea and the meds you're using will get it in fairly short order.

Also, there are a few opportunistic diseases that can only gain a foothold when the bird is under stress. When it calms down (new home, after all) it might de-stress and its own immune system might take over and wipe whatever it is out. But unless the symptoms are very straightforward and typical, it's difficult to be sure what it is or what you need to take care of it.

I've got a bird that's been wheezing for two years now but there's never been a discharge or upper respiratory impairment. I've never figured out what his problem is--he certainly doesn't seem any-the-worse for wear. 

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi all,

Problem is, considering Pidgey's info, if fungi is root of resperatory ailment, cateyes wouldn't want to give antibiotics, only if bacterial.
A fresh sample of discharge to the vet for testing would be the best way to go. Trying to sort out the symptoms via the internet has its' limitations,
and you wouldn't want to pick the wrong medication where fungal and bacterial infections are concerned. In meantime, cateyes, you could double check the feed and make sure it is fresh, even put a couple of seeds in your mouth to see if you detect any moldy flavor. Sometimes you can get a bad batch from store,
also evaluate how you are storing it at home.

Also, checking loft for ventilation, drafts and excessive dust is beneficial.

Infectious Catarrh (Coryza) can have symptoms of the white yellow deposits, but that would be in "an advanced" stage according to Modena Club's Doctor's Corner. Here's a couple of links for you to check out if you don't already have these sites bookmarked.

http://www.jedds.com/MySolution/DiseasesRespiratoryTract.asp

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The Doctors Corner/diagnosis.htm#Salmonellosis (paratyphoid)

Best,

fp


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## cateyes (Apr 16, 2005)

*update*

Hey everyone

THe sueeker has gotten MUCH better! HE still does breath kinda strange when i pick him up but no more puss he eats great flys etc.... Few days ago when i inspected him i noticed some bugs in his feathers so i dusted him with some dri killl like i did the rest of my brids. I AM NOT GETTING pigeson from this person again!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Glad the squeaker is doing better.

fp


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