# Beginning Racer...



## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

I would like to become a beginner racer, which this would be my first year. My question is a complete noob question but how else can you learn?

My question is: Can Feral Pigeons be Raced? So lets say a Pigeon (Common Blue Bar that you would find in San Francisco) has been staying around my place and entering my make-shift loft. Can I home him/her and use him/her to learn the ends and outs of club events before actually purchasing pedigreed birds?

Thank You


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

First welcome to Pigeon Talk! All questions are welcomed here weather they come from new flyers or experienced verterans. We all learn from each other here so feel free to ask whatever questions you may have on pigeons.

For your feral friend, I'm sorry to say that competitively it wont stand a chance with racing homers. If you're planning on racing you might as well start with racing homers.

Where are you located? there may be a few flyers around your area that might be willing to start you out with some if you have a loft already.


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## Gnuretiree (May 29, 2009)

I started racing last year in Connecticut and two local clubs and a member here on PT (thanks again Ed) were very generous in helping me to get going. I enjoyed it all thoroughly - 

Hugh


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Thank You for your response and help. I am in Oakley California. And I wasn't hoping to win any races with the feral bird or anything like that I just wanted to learn the basics and get comfortable with the race environment with the bird.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Well to have your bird compete in a race it needs to be banded with an registered AU band. You wouldn't be able to race your feral because there would be no way to get a band on him/her now(assuming your bird isn't banded). We band race birds as early as 4-5 days after they are hatched. This band allows them to eligable for Club and futurity races. 

You should create a thread and ask if anyone can help you out around your area. Another option is to buy your birds.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Gnuretiree said:


> I started racing last year in Connecticut and two local clubs and a member here on PT (thanks again Ed) were very generous in helping me to get going. I enjoyed it all thoroughly -
> 
> Hugh


Ed's a great dude, a very generous guy. I think he got his first birds from a PT member also.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Once again Thank You. Yeah I knew about the birds being banded shortly after birth and did at as a small child, I just forgot. I remember be really small and slipping the band over the squabs feet. I actually remember coming out one morning and one of the bands had slipped off of one of the squabs feet and having to reapply it. Weird how memories come back.

I don't remember us buying the parents of those babies. I wonder where my father got the Parents. Wonder if he caught them? Hmmm. Wish I could ask him.

Once again Thanks


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

No problem.

Yeah that happens sometimes and if you don't keep a good eye on the bands slipping off you'll have an unbanded bird before you know it. By the 10th -11th day you won't be able to get that band on depending on the size of your breed.


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## Roller mike (Aug 5, 2009)

Breed a couple of young birds from your feral and try them, as long as they are banded with the correct bands you can race them, you never know, it could be a fast strain, anything that is a homer has a chance.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

The question is will the club allow him to race feral pigeons? I surely wont allow it (no offense). I spend too much on medication and in keeping my birds healthy, and every race fancier will try to avoid their race birds on getting any disease in the basket. So it will be very hard to get someone to agree in letting your feral birds to compete. Most of the club members will gladly donate some birds to you and asked you to get rid f our feral. So find a nearest club in your area and just inquire you will be surprize how friendly are the club members.


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## romanallover (Jan 31, 2010)

Roller mike said:


> Breed a couple of young birds from your feral and try them, as long as they are banded with the correct bands you can race them, you never know, it could be a fast strain, anything that is a homer has a chance.


 you've answered something I've been wondering, thanks.

I was reading many many pro pigeon articles and non of them could describe valid difference between feral and homing pigeon, just cosmetics like feral have disease or homers are banded and my favorite "thoroughbred" all it means is that its breed from good strain but that strain had to come from somewhere, all feral pigeons in US are descendants of the dutch 1600 arrival which where homing(maybe not racing but homing)
so who is to say I cant breed a pair of ferals and for my own hobby train then to return from a distance?
besides I heard npa is trying to establish ferals as a new breed. 
whats your opinion???


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Roller mike said:


> Breed a couple of young birds from your feral and try them, as long as they are banded with the correct bands you can race them, you never know, it could be a fast strain, anything that is a homer has a chance.


Thank You dearly for this reply. One of the best replies on this entire forum that I have read in my short time lurking. Truly intelligent reply and I am grateful for it.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

soymi69 said:


> The question is will the club allow him to race feral pigeons? I surely wont allow it (no offense). I spend too much on medication and in keeping my birds healthy, and every race fancier will try to avoid their race birds on getting any disease in the basket. So it will be very hard to get someone to agree in letting your feral birds to compete.


How would well kept and taken care of offspring of the original feral birds automatically be in bad health and dirty and with disease? Truly puzzling.


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## WOODRUFF LOFT (Nov 18, 2009)

Roller mike said:


> Breed a couple of young birds from your feral and try them, as long as they are banded with the correct bands you can race them, you never know, it could be a fast strain, anything that is a homer has a chance.


We have an older member in our club that breeds a ferral to a homer and has raced the young. He calls it is "special strain" and that he is going to win with them someday. He's working on the third generation this year. Remember this sport is supposed to be for fun.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

SMMWest said:


> How would well kept and taken care of offspring of the original feral birds automatically be in bad health and dirty and with disease? Truly puzzling.


That's the thing! Racing pigeon fancier are very meticulous when it comes to the health of their birds. Again before they even allow you to race your feral they will eventually donate good quality birds. If you were in my club I guarantee you will walk away with some good quality birds to get you started. Also how do you know that the parents of your birds don't carry anything? Not unless you have taken them to the Vet and took all the necessary testing to make sure your birds is healthy and keep all your required medication, vaccination then maybe some club will consider you in joining their club. I'm not saying don't keep ferals but keep them at home as a pet and not to compete with racing. I do know a guy that toss and train feral pigeons and he said their good to about 30 to 50 miles after that they never make it back home.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

WOODRUFF LOFT said:


> We have an older member in our club that breeds a ferral to a homer and has raced the young. He calls it is "special strain" and that he is going to win with them someday. He's working on the third generation this year. Remember this sport is supposed to be for fun.


I have a "special strain" also...tippler/homer mating...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2010)

I dont think they would know if it was a feral or not if it was banded unless you told them ,I have seen some sad looking homers in my day so whos to say wats what


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## Jimhalekw (Jan 1, 2010)

The American Racing Pigeon Union has a program for new members just getting started. Pigeons are donated by established members. I would personally not recomend trying to reinvent the wheel with ferals. I understand your thinking in just wanting to get used to pigeons again, but you can get used to homing pigeons just as easily and have somthing of value. Jim


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> I dont think they would know if it was a feral or not if it was banded unless you told them ,I have seen some sad looking homers in my day so whos to say wats what


Very true. They wouldn't.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Jimhalekw said:


> The American Racing Pigeon Union has a program for new members just getting started. Pigeons are donated by established members. I would personally not recomend trying to reinvent the wheel with ferals. I understand your thinking in just wanting to get used to pigeons again, but you can get used to homing pigeons just as easily and have somthing of value. Jim


Thank You for this information.


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## Bella (May 2, 2009)

I really wouldn't suggest doing this for more than one reason.

First, today's domesticated homers' navigational talents have been honed by hundreds of thousands of generations of selective breeding specifically for this purpose. Our feral friends may loft fly and return from short distances, but genetically speaking you are talking about sending a re-domesticated bird on a race that it not only can't compete in, but more than likely could not even complete. The then lost bird, would most likely suffer a slow death from starvation, being unable to survive after being raised in captivity. Any experience gained here would come at great cost to your birds. The birds should be given every opportunity and advantage possible to be able to make it home when you consider conditioning, feeding, health and genetics...to take genetics right out of it seems to be an awful large hole in the puzzle. This sport may be for fun, but I don't think we should abandon ethics in pursuit of our entertainment.

There are so many culls coming out of this sport, if you are looking to not spend any money on your first birds, you probably don't have to. As others have said, get in touch with your local flying club. Surely, someone will be happy offer you late hatches, older breeding pairs, or their culls to start off with. I'd be willing to put money that a cull bird from a racing loft is going to be light years ahead of a feral bird in terms of ability. This would also give you a base for later on. Starting up a loft with some more expensive birds will be much cheaper in the long run if you already have some halfway decent birds to cross into and work with.

Finally, I worry about the banding of feral birds in general. With a band on it's leg, a feral bird is going to pass as a homer, maybe not a very good one, but a homer nonetheless. When you lose them, there is a small chance that bird may actually happen upon someone else's loft and trap in. If you can't be contacted, that bird could then potentially cause damage to the breeding programs of others if it is bred from or thrown into circulation. All the while masquerading as a homer, as that is what that band implies.

In the end, do as you wish...but put some consideration into it first...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2010)

Bella said:


> I really wouldn't suggest doing this for more than one reason.
> 
> First, today's domesticated homers' navigational talents have been honed by hundreds of thousands of generations of selective breeding specifically for this purpose. Our feral friends may loft fly and return from short distances, but genetically speaking you are talking about sending a re-domesticated bird on a race that it not only can't compete in, but more than likely could not even complete. The then lost bird, would most likely suffer a slow death from starvation, being unable to survive after being raised in captivity. Any experience gained here would come at great cost to your birds. The birds should be given every opportunity and advantage possible to be able to make it home when you consider conditioning, feeding, health and genetics...to take genetics right out of it seems to be an awful large hole in the puzzle. This sport may be for fun, but I don't think we should abandon ethics in pursuit of our entertainment.
> 
> ...


 just for the sake of mentioning it ,if you ask me I wouldnt be surprised if most ferals didnt already have a good amount of racing homer blood bred into their background from all those lost race birds across the country every year.. but I agree it would be best to start with pigeons that you know are bred for racing


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## Bella (May 2, 2009)

LokotaLoft said:


> just for the sake of mentioning it ,if you ask me I wouldnt be surprised if most ferals didnt already have a good amount of racing homer blood bred into their background from all those lost race birds across the country every year.. but I agree it would be best to start with pigeons that you know are bred for racing


I don't doubt that at all. But I don't think it's enough to give them the chance they deserve when you consider what these birds must do in a race. A lot of time goes into trying to breed great birds, and still, even with all the ducks in a row, some are lost.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Bella said:


> I really wouldn't suggest doing this for more than one reason.
> 
> First, today's domesticated homers' navigational talents have been honed by hundreds of thousands of generations of selective breeding specifically for this purpose. Our feral friends may loft fly and return from short distances, but genetically speaking you are talking about sending a re-domesticated bird on a race that it not only can't compete in, but more than likely could not even complete. The then lost bird, would most likely suffer a slow death from starvation, being unable to survive after being raised in captivity. Any experience gained here would come at great cost to your birds. The birds should be given every opportunity and advantage possible to be able to make it home when you consider conditioning, feeding, health and genetics...to take genetics right out of it seems to be an awful large hole in the puzzle. This sport may be for fun, but I don't think we should abandon ethics in pursuit of our entertainment.
> 
> ...


Terrific insight! The whole thing about accidentally mixing feral blood into a breeding program is horrifying!



LokotaLoft said:


> just for the sake of mentioning it ,if you ask me I wouldnt be surprised if most ferals didnt already have a good amount of racing homer blood bred into their background from all those lost race birds across the country every year.. but I agree it would be best to start with pigeons that you know are bred for racing


This maybe true about the ferals having more homer blood in them but you're still taking a huge step backwards IMHO.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

If a Feral pigeon comes home--it has some homing genes from somewhere.
Kinda like Janssens blood is is most racing birds---maybe only a "drop" but some.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

Great comment Bella and good to hear from you! Again there are good help a beginner program being offered by both AU and IF, utilize it and get better birds or PM me if you can send a box I can give you a pair of good birds that will breed you good young birds. Check out my public folder and check my album. I'm here to help.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey. As lonh as your feral does not carry a disease or mate with one of my birds in the basket (good luck with keeping that from happening), then go for it.

I would love to move up in the race results because someone in my Combine was racing ferals!

Seriously though. Why would a serious flyer want to start several generations behind eveyone else? Just to be different or special?

I guarantee the worst cull from almost anyones loft, will be a better racer than a feral. There might be an exception every millionth pigeon or so, but I'm willing to take those odds. Are you?

If it is just for fun, then have at it. This sport is about fun. But I must warn you that it will not be well received by 99.9% of the racing flyers in the world. Additionally, don't expect any diplomas. It won't happen in the next thirty years.

Of course, if you did obtain a diploma, you would make the front page of the pigeon news, ....and ruin any relationship you may have with the flyers that you beat.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> Of course, if you did obtain a diploma, you would make the front page of the pigeon news, ....and ruin any relationship you may have with the flyers that you beat.


Now there's an upside!  j/k


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Bella said:


> I really wouldn't suggest doing this for more than one reason.
> 
> First, today's domesticated homers' navigational talents have been honed by hundreds of thousands of generations of selective breeding specifically for this purpose. Our feral friends may loft fly and return from short distances, but genetically speaking you are talking about sending a re-domesticated bird on a race that it not only can't compete in, but more than likely could not even complete. The then lost bird, would most likely suffer a slow death from starvation, being unable to survive after being raised in captivity. Any experience gained here would come at great cost to your birds. The birds should be given every opportunity and advantage possible to be able to make it home when you consider conditioning, feeding, health and genetics...to take genetics right out of it seems to be an awful large hole in the puzzle. This sport may be for fun, but I don't think we should abandon ethics in pursuit of our entertainment.
> 
> ...


Great Informative Post.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

soymi69 said:


> Great comment Bella and good to hear from you! Again there are good help a beginner program being offered by both AU and IF, utilize it and get better birds or PM me if you can send a box I can give you a pair of good birds that will breed you good young birds. Check out my public folder and check my album. I'm here to help.


Thank You for your kindness and offer. As my very first post here stated I am just thinking about starting up and am just here to ask Noob questions. Nothing is set in stone about me Racing birds as of yet, but your caring nature for beginners trying to get started is wonderful. I am sure everyone whom sees that post of yours will applaud you.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> There might be an exception every millionth pigeon or so, but I'm willing to take those odds. Are you?
> 
> If it is just for fun, then have at it. This sport is about fun. But I must warn you that it will not be well received by 99.9% of the racing flyers in the world. Additionally, don't expect any diplomas. It won't happen in the next thirty years.
> 
> Of course, if you did obtain a diploma, you would make the front page of the pigeon news, ....and ruin any relationship you may have with the flyers that you beat.


Hmmmm this post makes me want to raise and race Ferals. I would love to be on the front page of Pigeon News with a Diploma.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

So most common a Loft has to be 400 Miles from the Release Point?


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

No it all depend on the location of your release point, I'm the farthest in my club and my bird need to fly 40 miles extra just to get home, and we have club members that 40 miles less than the release point. Its not the first bird home its who fly the fastest.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im sure this feral "idea" has been thought of and probably done before...too bad no one has chimed in to tell, and I think we all would of heard about it by now if it was successful, but we have'nt...perhaps because they just were no good at racing?..I think some feral birds would be lovely....just for enjoyment and if you want to get into racing then you would use what you need to compete, which is domestic racing homers. just as I would not use my figuritas to home or any other breed and I would include ferals in the bunch. They all have their special uses but the uses are just not all the same....


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

soymi69 said:


> No it all depend on the location of your release point, I'm the farthest in my club and my bird need to fly 40 miles extra just to get home, and we have club members that 40 miles less than the release point. Its not the first bird home its who fly the fastest.


Thank you for the Info.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Note: Found this in another thread. Mexico to Ohio? Niceeeeeee.

Keith C. Keith C. is offline
Senior Bird

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Age: 39
Posts: 421
I mentioned it before, but a friend of mine had a a feral pigeon that he caught under a bridge as a young squab.
It kept mating with a hen, he wanted to breed to another cock, so he released it over and over and it kept coming back.
He had a truck driver he knows release it twice on the Mexican/Texas border and both times it flew back to Dayton, Ohio.
He ended up keeping it.
A lot of feral pigeons have a lot of homer blood and a lot of flocks of ferals locally have banded homers living with them.
There used to be one flock that had obvious modena blood. I doubt they homed as well.
Keith


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

SMMWest said:


> Very true. They wouldn't.


Well, it's also very possible they would. During one of our shipping nights while we were countermarking birds, one of our members was taking birds from another member's basket to be marked and suddenly said "Hey Jim, what's this barn pigeon doing in here?" Bob says, "What barn pigeon?". Jim then goes on to point out that it wasn't a homer and everyone took a look and agreed. The owner of the bird, who was only in his second season flying, said that he didn't know it was a barn pigeon and he had been training it with all his others and it was always coming home. He shipped it anyway and it didn't come back.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Good beginner basket?
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/112-137.html


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I think we have different definition of ferals. They could be 1.) lost homers 2.) true ferals (wild type) 3.) mixed breeds (homer x wild type). This implies that they have varying homing range (ability).

It would be cruel to send the wild type bird to a race knowing that it has the most limited range (30-60 miles?). The other varies.

To be on a safe side, just get a bird from a breeder with "pure" homers. Usually those birds have history(raced or otherwise) or the breeder didn't allow the bird from breeding with other types of breeds.

It is not fair to send a bird that can't do the job right? Now if your "feral" happened to be a lost homer, then maybe you can.

"Pure" homers are those birds bred from 3 or 4 different types (Cumulet, Smerle, Dragoon or even the English Carrier) whose navigation skills, endurance, etc., were selected from them. Obviously those birds descended from the wild type (Rock pigeon). So the word "pure" here is being used as carrying the purity of the hybrid.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Anyone know what happen to the club that was based off of Cypress Road in Oakley California?


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Curious as to what was the most prize money some of you have made in a season?


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

Not all racing club function with money. Most are just for fun they will add about $100 price money on a futurity race. I like the club that race for fun because no one is fighting or jealous about one flyer and they all willing to help and work with you if finance is tight. I'm all right knowing my birds made it to the final 300 mile and able to come back.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

soymi69 said:


> Not all racing club function with money. Most are just for fun they will add about $100 price money on a futurity race. I like the club that race for fun because no one is fighting or jealous about one flyer and they all willing to help and work with you if finance is tight. I'm all right knowing my birds made it to the final 300 mile and able to come back.


Yes I would agree. I actually didn't know that any prize money was involved in the sport until I saw an old flyer for a race online, and there was a $3,000 prize for 1st place and they paid out up until 4th place. That is what made me ask the question.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Question on bands:

Does it matter if it is a AU band (understand is a must for racing) or a NPA band? Also which leg should each band be placed?


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Any help on the band question?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I can not state for certain, because each combine or even club, has their own rules. But in my combine, if the bird is banded with a band other than an AU band, the bird can race, but a small fee must be paid the first time that bird is entered into a race. It is something like 25 or 50 cents. It is a one time thing in our combine.

I have also seen this fee disregarded, especially in the case of a new flyer just joining.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> I can not state for certain, because each combine or even club, has their own rules. But in my combine, if the bird is banded with a band other than an AU band, the bird can race, but a small fee must be paid the first time that bird is entered into a race. It is something like 25 or 50 cents. It is a one time thing in our combine.
> 
> I have also seen this fee disregarded, especially in the case of a new flyer just joining.



Thank you so very much for that information. Blessings.


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## Young Bird (May 2, 2007)

ANTIOCH RPC OAKLEY 925-625-1989 [email protected] aol.com
Here is a club that is in Oakley Call them or email Wes Askins he is the truck driver for the baycities combine he lives in Oakley


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Young Bird said:


> ANTIOCH RPC OAKLEY 925-625-1989 [email protected] aol.com
> Here is a club that is in Oakley Call them or email Wes Askins he is the truck driver for the baycities combine he lives in Oakley


This is the information I was looking for. Thank you so very much. This information is such a help.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

SMMWest said:


> I would like to become a beginner racer, which this would be my first year. My question is a complete noob question but how else can you learn?
> 
> My question is: Can Feral Pigeons be Raced? So lets say a Pigeon (Common Blue Bar that you would find in San Francisco) has been staying around my place and entering my make-shift loft. Can I home him/her and use him/her to learn the ends and outs of club events before actually purchasing pedigreed birds?
> 
> Thank You


 Yes of course feral pigeons can be trained and raced. There have been a number of examples where feral pigeons have even been used for breeding. Mike Ganus owns a bird which was once a stray which was taken in by the famous Ludo Claessens. Mike sells babies of this once stray pigeon for $3000 each. See : http://ganusfamilyloft.com/goldenwitten2.htm

Of course, like any adult pigeon, once they imprinted on "Home" it is a bit risky attempting to "Re-Home" them to a new location. I guess I should add, that when discussing feral pigeons, most fanciers would consider a racing pigeon which has sort of gone wild, as a bit different then a real "wild" feral bird. A true rock dove type of feral, would never be much of a racer. I started with them as a kid, and for the most part, they have a limited homing ability. It has taken many generations of selective breeding to get them to the point of where the modern day racing pigeon is today. 

But, as others have posted, it is impossible to say what is a real wild type, as every pigeon in the USA today, at some point in their family history, goes back to pigeons which were domesticated by humans, as they are not native to the USA. So, any "typical" feral you might catch under a bridge somewhere, has some homing pigeon in the family tree somewhere most likely. As there are many tens of thousands of racing/homing pigeons which go MIA every year in the USA. And one must assume, at least some percentage of those MIA birds are contributing to the genetics of the feral colonies out there breeding in the wild.

Of course in order to race in a local club, your birds you enter have to be banded. And if you are willing to pay the dues and racing fees, I am most certain that some club members will have some culls they will only be to happy to let you breed from. No need to go catching your breeding pairs from the wild.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yes of course feral pigeons can be trained and raced. There have been a number of examples where feral pigeons have even been used for breeding. Mike Ganus owns a bird which was once a stry which was taken in by the famous Ludo Claessens. Mike sells babies of this once stray pigeon for $3000 each. See : http://ganusfamilyloft.com/goldenwitten2.htm
> 
> Of course, like any adult pigeon, once they imprinted on "Home" it is a bit risky attempting to "Re-Home" them to a new location. I guess I should add, that when discussing feral pigeons, most fanciers would consider a racing pigeon which has sort of gone wild, as a bit different then a real "wild" feral bird. A true rock dove type of feral, would never be much of a racer. I started with them as a kid, and for the most part, they have a limited homing ability. It has taken many generations of selective breeding to get them to the point of where the modern day racing pigeon is today.
> 
> ...


If you are talking about the white grizzle that Ludo Clasen found that wasn't consider a feral that was a loss racing pigeon due to the owner passing away. totally different from a wild pigeon to a lost racing pigeon.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Yea, Warren knows that if anyone does. But he is/was referring to the understand that many have, that the words "feral pigeon" mean to most, a pigeon that lives in the wild.

A lost homing pigeon can be described as living in the wild,. Thus, could be defined as a "feral pigeon". Although "we" all know the difference between a lost homing pigeon and a feral pigeon. The line can indeed be blurred. What if I lost some homers and they lived in the wild for five or six years. Are they feral? What if I cross breed ferals with homers and then let them loose. Are they ferals?

Believe me, Warren probably knows who the supposed owner of that "feral" found by Ludo Claessens belonged to. I have an idea.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yes of course feral pigeons can be trained and raced. There have been a number of examples where feral pigeons have even been used for breeding. Mike Ganus owns a bird which was once a stray which was taken in by the famous Ludo Claessens. Mike sells babies of this once stray pigeon for $3000 each. See : http://ganusfamilyloft.com/goldenwitten2.htm
> 
> Of course, like any adult pigeon, once they imprinted on "Home" it is a bit risky attempting to "Re-Home" them to a new location. I guess I should add, that when discussing feral pigeons, most fanciers would consider a racing pigeon which has sort of gone wild, as a bit different then a real "wild" feral bird. A true rock dove type of feral, would never be much of a racer. I started with them as a kid, and for the most part, they have a limited homing ability. It has taken many generations of selective breeding to get them to the point of where the modern day racing pigeon is today.
> 
> ...


Thank You for your contribution. It is greatly appreciated.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Sorry to bring up my old thread, but what Clocks does Baycities Combine use? I have heard that some clubs make everyone use the same Clocks.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

I had completely walked away from the thought of owning and raising Pigeon's as all of the local Pigeon owners acted like they were direct descendents of the Royal Queen herself. It was horrible talking with or trying to deal with any of them. 

Yet today my daughter whom is now 7 read a book on Pigeons at school and her teacher explained to her that some people raise and race them. She ask if we may give it a shot someday.

I will most likely build another loft and purchase her a few Fancy Birds to fly and maybe take to the County Fairs, but I just can't introduce her to the level of snob that most of the local Pigeon owners are in Contra Costa County.

Wish I could of tracked down old Rich Wahlbridge, then maybe things would of been a little different in my treatment.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

That's too bad. Sorry you had that experience. A lot of guys don't want to talk to much about their methods for fear of them being used against them, but they damn sure will sell you some of their birds. Which is too bad, and not the way to grow the sport. I do find, though that asking folks on these message boards, or facebook or whatever is a good way to get information, because guys are likely to help out other guys since they aren't directly competing with them. Shoot me a PM if I can help you or something along those lines.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

SMMWest said:


> I had completely walked away from the thought of owning and raising Pigeon's as all of the local Pigeon owners acted like they were direct descendents of the Royal Queen herself. It was horrible talking with or trying to deal with any of them.
> 
> Yet today my daughter whom is now 7 read a book on Pigeons at school and her teacher explained to her that some people raise and race them. She ask if we may give it a shot someday.
> 
> ...


Like V-JOHN said that this is too bad some people need to act that way. I'm sure if you were serious about trying out some homers and you built a loft you would have people offer you some birds.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Thank you two. I truly appreciate your kindness. I am going to see if my daughter is truly serious in wanting birds, and understands the dedication and then I will get her a pair of fancy to show at fair's. She does great with her dog, so she should be responsible with the birds.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Most likely the worst experience I had was I was told that there was a family who held and raced birds in my area. I was told you can't miss their place because they are across the street from the Golf Course in Pittsburg California and their loft is right at their back fence which is on the main road and is 5ft taller then the fence.

I live right on the road before the Pittsburg golf course so I think to myself "so very cool to have a family with experience so close. Good neighborly bond". 

The very day I get this news I head out Jogging and I see the guy out there. Huge loft and even larger young bird pen. It is literally at the sidewalk. Sidewalk, 5ft Fence touching the sidewalk, 2 huge lofts. 2 gentlemen are out there. Literally 6ft from me I say hello, nothing. I say nice lofts and birds, they look at me. I tell them I built a loft and am looking to learn about the sport of Pigeon Racing. 1 guy says get the F*** away from here you are scaring our birds (the lofts are against a fence that is connected to the sidewalk, that runs along the 2nd most busy street in our city). I ask if I may give them my business card and if they could call me so that I could ask them some mentoring type of questions. One guy says our sport is full. We don't need anymore in it.

Sad thing is every time I would ask anyone for help they would either act in that same manner, or would refer me to that same exact family.

There is an African-American man that moved into my neighborhood who keeps birds and he said he was referred to this family and that my treatment was good compared to what he got from them. He told me to come by and look at his birds anytime. But he can't help me get started in racing because every since he got to this area he hasn't found any friendly racing men or women who would lead himself to a place to get started. He raced pigeons in the state he moved from.


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## rogerven (Aug 22, 2015)

That is sad to hear. Thus far my experience, in person, or via FB, from Seatlle-California, Texas, Georgia and here locally in WI, was fantastic!! In just 2 months I learned a lot. The local Milwaukee Concourse President, Fred Hopper was extremely helpful, allowed me to visit his loft during an ongoing race. Brian Mader a bloodline nerd, Donny aka Formidable also a member here and in my region gave me treasures of information and tips etc. Mr. Alan Porter etc.

Jose Ochoa who have tremendous video collection from Florida, John Vance an eloquent writer, Tony Rossi of Rossi Loft etc. are just heart warming. I will visit another fancier this weekend in my city, Mr. Alvarez. One day I would also visit a hidden treasure as well, who already I believe to be in his 80's (tipped by Brian), of Dynamo loft and writer himself, discussing about why community breeding is not the way to go. I met many more fellow Pinoy. All only since August. 

Don't be discouraged, there has to be someone aside from your local city.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

I am going to stay around this wonderful site hopefully gaining some online friends and most importantly knowledge. And take things one step at a time. I am grateful for this site.


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## rogerven (Aug 22, 2015)

Encourage children to do this. Pigeons saved me from the normal teenage angst. Taught me a lot, but as I pursued my dreams in life I left my pigeons. Ironically after 25 years I am coming back to it, to regain my inner peace. There are more people in this sport that still have or kept their moral compass.


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## Eleftharios (Oct 5, 2014)

*SMMWest ----- San Fransisco caught feral*

Years ago when I was a kid i caught a feral pigeon in San Fransisco and brought it home to Vacaville. I kept it for a couple of months and would loft fly it with the rest of my flock. After having it only a few short months my parents took us kids to Yosemite for vacation, which is about 141 air miles away and i brought the bird (by himself) with me and turned it loose there. Much to my suprise and delight, it was waiting for me when we got home.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

Eleftharios said:


> Years ago when I was a kid i caught a feral pigeon in San Fransisco and brought it home to Vacaville. I kept it for a couple of months and would loft fly it with the rest of my flock. After having it only a few short months my parents took us kids to Yosemite for vacation, which is about 141 air miles away and i brought the bird (by himself) with me and turned it loose there. Much to my suprise and delight, it was waiting for me when we got home.


Amazing story.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

rogerven said:


> Encourage children to do this. Pigeons saved me from the normal teenage angst. Taught me a lot, but as I pursued my dreams in life I left my pigeons. Ironically after 25 years I am coming back to it, to regain my inner peace. There are more people in this sport that still have or kept their moral compass.


Yes, I kept pigeons as a young boy that is why I wanted to get back into it. I loved the birds and I fondly remember the kinship that I had with the other young Pigeon owners in my neighborhood. We would all get together and talk about our favorite birds. Fond memories. Now as an adult the men of the sport have tarnished my enthusiasm. Theyact as if they are Steve Jobs (R.I.P) or Bill Gates executing a power take over of a competitor's company. Shameful.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I looked up in my AU 2014 yearbook and found 5 AU members that live in Oakley and only 2 the live in Pittsburg so there should be someone who is a bit more friendly than the person you first met. I'm also thinking that the local club is very large in that area so I'm guessing they have limited trailer space and probably has a bird limit too. Still no excuse to treat you that way. I know in our small club you would be welcome with open arms . Make a Google search of Fort Sutter Racing Pigeon Club. Although they are located in Sacramento their web site has a nice welcome letter and I would bet you could make contact with someone there. It looks like they hold 4 auction each year selling some quality birds . Contact phone number is for Frank Meder 916-847-1904.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

ERIC K said:


> I looked up in my AU 2014 yearbook and found 5 AU members that live in Oakley and only 2 the live in Pittsburg so there should be someone who is a bit more friendly than the person you first met. I'm also thinking that the local club is very large in that area so I'm guessing they have limited trailer space and probably has a bird limit too. Still no excuse to treat you that way. I know in our small club you would be welcome with open arms . Make a Google search of Fort Sutter Racing Pigeon Club. Although they are located in Sacramento their web site has a nice welcome letter and I would bet you could make contact with someone there. It looks like they hold 4 auction each year selling some quality birds . Contact phone number is for Frank Meder 916-847-1904.


 Thank you sincerely for this information. Like I had stated this site is full of great people. Your information is going to be such a great help.

I will keep building both knowledge and friends slowly and hopefully great things will come for my daughter and her new hobby interest.


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## SMMWest (Mar 2, 2010)

On my daily jog, and just passed by the house of the 2 gentlemen who were so very rude and said I was "scaring their birds". The entire roof of their home has had the shingles torn off (by a work crew) and they are laying new shingles. It was so noisy, and their birds were perfectly calm (the young bird pen is pretty open and you can see all the birds). Yet me saying hello was making the birds afraid. Any way I learned a lot by seeing their main coop on my daily jog. I need to improve my design skills when building the new coop. I am very greatful to learn by visually seeing the coop daily. There were many flaws in my last pen, and even my coop that my father built for me back as a child. I want to be simple, yet efficient.


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## PapiZ28pigeons (Jan 17, 2013)

SMMWest said:


> Thank You for your response and help. I am in Oakley California. And I wasn't hoping to win any races with the feral bird or anything like that I just wanted to learn the basics and get comfortable with the race environment with the bird.


I'm in Antioch off of Hillcrest I would like to meet up some time and check out each other's set up. You can also check out some of my birds on my Instagram account @z28papi. I have mostly rollers now but still breed and train my homers. I'm not really deep in racing or anything hut I wouldn't mind training the birds together and racing against each other. Anyways let me know


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## PapiZ28pigeons (Jan 17, 2013)

SMMWest said:


> I had completely walked away from the thought of owning and raising Pigeon's as all of the local Pigeon owners acted like they were direct descendents of the Royal Queen herself. It was horrible talking with or trying to deal with any of them.
> 
> Yet today my daughter whom is now 7 read a book on Pigeons at school and her teacher explained to her that some people raise and race them. She ask if we may give it a shot someday.
> 
> ...


My daughter is also 7! 
I got the same treatment from most of the guys out here. Everyone is very secretive about their birds and training them. It's part of the reason I turned to roller pigeons. Those guys seem much more eager to show you how well their birds do and talk to you. I even know a few guys that would call me and ask if I would want a few birds for free.


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