# Odd Babies - Is there a name for these colors?



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)




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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

yes, but I don't know what they are, except very pretty.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> yes, but I don't know what they are, except very pretty.


Thanks, I love the colors - especially the first one. Just don't know what its called


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Msfreebird said:


>


*Hi Msfreebird, The second bird is a grizzlenow the first one is a puzzle. The tail is very dark but one can still make out the tail barthe rusty color on the wing sheild looks to be a bronze or maybe a INDIGO modifier.I would like to see some pictures of the parents of these twoit is always helpful knowing what color the parents are. My guess is that one of the parents is a grizzle a white grizzle.Please post pictures of the parents*GEORGE


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you George, this is the mother of the first pictured baby (with one of her previous babies standing behind her), she is black with a little white on her. I don't have a picture of the father, but he is a blue check. That's why I was wondering about the 3 colors on baby?









I don't have a picture of the second pictured babies mother, but she is mostly white with 2 small faded brown spots on her back. Don't know who the father is. She hatched single baby and he abandoned her.


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## ~pigeonlover~ (Jan 14, 2004)

you have some gorgeous babies there


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Very pretty babies. The first one looks like a sooty blue pencil with bronze. Could be grizzled maybe. The flights remind me a lot of the stork grizzles, but the bird overall isn't that white. It does appear to have undergrizzle in the flights if nothing else.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Very pretty babies. The first one looks like a sooty blue pencil with bronze. Could be grizzled maybe. The flights remind me a lot of the stork grizzles, but the bird overall isn't that white. It does appear to have undergrizzle in the flights if nothing else.


*Hi Becky,Did you notice the tail of that bird,.I had to look twice before I could make out the tail bar it all most looks like it would be spread but why it would stop in the tail and not proceed to the rest of the bird. I will have to do some reserch and see what I can find.I hope that Frank would stop by and check this bird. I just feel that I have read some where about grizzle and spread in the same bird .* GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yep, I noticed the tail bar. It blends in pretty good. Looks a lot like some of the real heavy dirty birds or poor blacks. But I agree, it's odd that it would stop there. The head/face look like what you'd see on a dirty bird but the wing shields look awfully light compared to everything else?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Here's another picture of the first baby. It's really hard to see (my camera is not that good) but his (her) neck and the back of head is reddish brown (bronze?) also-


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Salt and Pepper you could name them. Absolutely Beautiful though


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

very interesting, thanks for posting the pics, and the others info on the colors. 
those are two beautiful birds!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks for the comments 
I really like the color of the dark one and have never seen anything like it.
I was watching him grow and when he was tiny he was all brown spotted and with the white stripe by the eye he looked like a baby duck! LOL


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Bumping this up
Still trying to find out color of first bird 










Here is another picture of him/her standing-










And I don't know if it means anything, but this is the nest mate -










There is no brown/red on its nest mate, mom or dad.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Alright, here's what I've got.
It's obvious the bird is a dirty blue bar. He/she also has sooty, which gives it the false check appearance. Also has a lot of bronze, which you can see really good in the bars, but you said it's also on the neck.
The wing shields look funny, but I think it might just be a trick. A lot of my dirty birds, their wings aren't really that dark. Maybe the bronze is adding to the look and the little 'checks' just make it contrast a lot more?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Alright, here's what I've got.
> It's obvious the bird is a dirty blue bar. He/she also has sooty, which gives it the false check appearance. Also has a lot of bronze, which you can see really good in the bars, but you said it's also on the neck.
> The wing shields look funny, but I think it might just be a trick. A lot of my dirty birds, their wings aren't really that dark. Maybe the bronze is adding to the look and the little 'checks' just make it contrast a lot more?


*Hi Becky, There seems to be alot going on in this bird.I believe that there at least 3 or 4 MODIFIERS at work in this bird. I see Grizzle in the flight feathers,in the tail I see SPREAD, I also see INDIGO and or BRONZE in the wing shield. There are many genes in the pigeon population which are classified as modifiers. A modifier is any gene that alters the visible phenotype effects of other genes.Modifiers have the effect of enhancing or suppressing some genes.So what I think may be happening here is like a fight to take over and none are a clear cut winner But I must admit that I am still  * GEORGE


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

nice looking youngings there , Im sure they will look alot different once they moult thou so hope to see them then too


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

LOL, So what are you guys telling me? I have to wait until he/she molts to get the true color 
I know its been said that they change after the first molt, but I've never noticed that. They seem to look pretty much the same to me


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Some of them do not change, others will make drastic changes. I see undergrizzle in the flights, but if it's any other kind of grizzle, there's a good chance it will show itself with another moult.
Could just be a typical grizzle and that's what's making the wings seem to not match everything else. I didn't think the tail was spread but I guess it could be, if the grizzle is helping the wing pattern show (as in, 'whiting out' parts)


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, So what are you guys telling me? I have to wait until he/she molts to get the true color
> I know its been said that they change after the first molt, but I've never noticed that. They seem to look pretty much the same to me


Im not an expert on genetics but I have alot of birds that changed color after molting. Some even completely changed color after it's second molt.... 

I love the color of the first baby......


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## santhosh_pigeons (May 29, 2002)

most birds dont change color after molt ....and for the ones who do ....you will get the original color only after the second molt........the results can be unbelivable......in most cases the birds acquire a grizzle on the feathers.....you will not find any changes in the tail....... if you do i think its not normal........ i had a friend who used to breed for color......seen some amazing transformations in his birds..........


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you for the input 
I really like the color of the first one too, and I'm keeping a close eye on him for changes.
It's very difficult to see in the pictures - side and front view of the head and back of the neck looks to be (dirty?) blue, but rear view it has a dark brownish/red hew. If you look between my thumbs in the picture you can see it. But you can't see it in the picture of him standing sideways. (standing picture does not do him justice - the flash washed out the colors) 
I'll post new pictures soon.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Looks to be bronze in both*



Msfreebird said:


> Bumping this up
> Still trying to find out color of first bird
> 
> 
> ...


The dark one with all the bronze is just a blue check with alot of bronze. This can come from indigo as well as many other sources, such as being split for recessive red. Opal might be a possibility as well. Mom looks as though she could be spread indigo but hard to say from the frontal photo. The baby is not spread, tail bar is plainly visible and the wings are checked. Darkeners are likely present, like dirty and or sooty. Are the feet black or dark colored?

If dad is blue check and mom is either t check or spread, both parents must be split for bar as the second youngster is blue bar. It also looks to show bronze in the bar. I don't know if these are indigo or just blues with bronze from something else. It would be good to see side pics of mom and dad to maybe shed more light on what is there.

There also looks to be pied and or grizzle factors involved in the young. This is coming from somewhere and I don't see it in mom. There are recessive pieds that can show up and undergrizzles can also show up this way but not typical grizzle. The youngster behind mom looks to be from a grizzle bird.

Bill


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