# A Winter's Baby's adventure, thus far and counting



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi all...


Just a little foray and a tale of Irony of people interfereing with Pigeons, which may actually have saved a little Pigeon Baby's life...

A couple had contacted the "9-11 Pigeon Alert" about two little Babys, and, our own Terry Watley then contacted me since I am in an ajacent City...

I 'phoned the people and arranged for them to bring the Babys here, and I advised them how to ensure their warmth for the trip useing a bag of Rice made warm in the microwave and so on...

So, pretty much forthwith, the people brought these two Babys, and genuinely cared about their well being, even though they knew nothing about them in terms of care or feeding and so on, or, about keeping them warm...

Anyway, they had noticed a pair of Pigeons building a Nest in their eve...and, they did not want the Birds to do that, so, they decided to remove the Nest and to stretch chicken wire across the opening, or to block the spot anyway with wire screen of some kind.

Then, they realized that there were two tiny Babys in the Nest, so, they took the Babys out and wired it all closed and disposed of the Nest.


Now, when I talked with them earlier, initially on the 'phone, I hoped they would be willing to just put things back, and to let the two Pigeon parents merely raise their Babys, and then, to remove the Nest once the youngsters were flying regularly and so on, but, they would not conceed to this, and, besides, the nest was appearently already removed and thrown away and so on, and, by now also, it had been three days or something of the two Babys being removed...

Even though they had put the Babys out on the lawn by day, hopeing the parents would feed them, the parent Pigeons supposedly were concerned and remained close by watching for this time period, but did not fly down to the lawn where their Babys had been placed.

One of the Babys had deceased by the time they arrived here, and, the other was cold through and through, but rallied amazingly once he felt recognised and spoken to and held in my hand to start warming him. I wanted to make sure he was well warmed up before I let him have anything to drink or eat, so...we did some good while of just warming rituals...first.

Ironically, this intervention of these people probably saved the Life of this surviveing Baby I have now, as, inspecting his sole earlier poop, and a smaller one since, I see it to be a bunch of bright Yellow goo with a little green/brown glob in the center, typical of when they have Trichomoniasis...so...

Earlier, once he was mostly warmed up, I let him sip some electrolytes, then, later once warmed up, I felt, through and through, I let him drink a Nipple full of it...

Then, about an hour after that, I started him on 'Berimax' mixed in with his 'formula-soup' supper, and he ate one whole Nipple full like a little champ and was standing up even wanting more...making faint if emphatic "peeeeep-peeeeeep-peeeeeep"s...and waving his little arm-Wings to drive the point home.


I will wait a little while and see about another helping...I would not want to shock his system too much after his fasting for three days and all.

But he wil get to eat again tonight.

Anyway, as usual, but not lately untill now, I took a bunch of dried Goji Berries, some Good general Pigeon Seed, and made them into powder together in my Blender, and mixed the powder with the 'Hagens' and if I do say so myself, it IS tastey..!

I am all out of my Sea Weed and Misu, but I did add some digestive enzymes, pro-biotics and a light dash of 'Nekton-T' Vitamine-Mineral powder.

In fact, I think I will have basic 'Seed meal-Hagens' blend for my Breakfast tomorrow morning, instead of Oatmeal.


So, if you like, a short tour of images de-jur, at...

http://community.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU


Thanks to Terry, and the 9-11 Pigeon Alert Network, this little one might just have a decent chance now...where, had he remained with his Parents, he would have perished of Canker in a matter of days or a week at best, most likely...

So...funny how things go sometimes...



Best wishes all...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

An amazing story Phil, you really are an angel to the pigeons. I hope you are enjoying your Goji, seed and formula mix porridge! That answers my earlier question too by the way (about the blender and seeds) .Thanks.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cameron, 


Good...

I sort of did with you in mind, posting the images and so on, I mean.

Really, these 'formulas' are quite delicious...

Little Baby just put away two full Nipple's full and was all-wound-up with the usual Peeper-enthusiasms...maybe one more round if his little Crop seems to be passing it well...then...

I will let him sleep the night and stuff him to the gills repeatedly tomorrow.

I hope the Trichomoniasis abates swiftly...he is so little and all...and I am so glad he is such a strong and happy little Bird in spite of his ordeals just passed...and we shall see how the poops are looking tomorrow.

The other thing I like about the Seed-meal one can make, is that it provides plenty of fiber, which would not seem to be present in the powdered commercial formulas.

Anyway, too, the once-mixed-with-water formla for either convelescent Adults, or Babys, should be made new each day of course, if not more than once each day, refridgerated and covered between uses, and warmed again thoroughly for each feed-time. 

The dry Seed-meal can keep well when covered and refridgerated, certainly for a week anyway, but I would not keep it longer, and, it is easy and fast to make anyway when one needs more.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, your descriptions make me feel I am standing there with you watching you feed and care for the baby. Sure hope it makes it. For some reason, couldn't view the pictures too well - most of them showing as white and red blurs.

Good job.

Maggie


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Thank You, Phil!*

Thank you so much for helping with this, Phil. I'm very sorry the one baby had already passed before it got to you, but I'm very glad things worked out in time for the other little one.

Please keep us posted and loaded up with pictures  

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie,


I just re-did the images afresh, so maybe now they are better...I noticed they were very hard to see clearly also, but thought it was something with my Computer...so...let me know if they are clear now, there may have been some uploading glitch that had effected them...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aw Phil, pictures much better. He is the cutest little thing. 

Maggie


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

cute baby,,,,,,,,,,,,so the nipple thing, you just put the food in and the baby sucks it out?? Pretty cool and a lot better than the way I do it. We both need a bath after I feed a baby!!LOL


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Ooooohhh*

what a cute baby. 

As you say Phil, funny how things work out.

Keep up the good work.

Tania


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oye,

Lots of things going on here this morning, but I did get hom fed two-and-a-half Nipples full, and he is of course due for another meal by now!

Poops are going from yesterday's chalky-yellow-with-dab-of-green/brown, to now being chalky-white with mostly green-brown middle, so...so far so good, the 'Berimax' seems to be working already to eliminate the Trichomoniasis/Canker...

He is quite the little 'Jack-in-the-Box' too...! - if I say something to him (even though he can not see me from where he is covered up) he starts peeeping, and of course, if I lift the cover, 'Bing!" he pops up, all wiggles and nuzzles...


Well, I better get some more chow into him to tide him over till the next round..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Glad to hear that liitle guy is taking to you Phil. It is a love story for sure. 

I am missing something though that everyone else seems to see. I still can't make out the pictures. They are mostly blacked out for me. Could be this old monitor of mine though. I hope to rectify that very soon. 

Do keep us posted on this little bird of yours!

Cameron


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Phil,

Sorry about the loss of one of the babies, but best of luck with this one.

Linda


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Eeeeesh, some days fly bye...!


At least got about six feed rounds so far, and another four or five to go before beddie-bye...in fact, his little Crop is emptying faster now than initially, so, he will keep me hopping...!

While I did set up his 'Squeaker Warm House' for him, instead of useing it, I set up a heating pad with a tee-shirt on it with my palmm-up hand on that, and had him sleep in the palm of my hand as I myself slept the night. He seemed to like that of course, and would poke his little butt off the edge of my palm to poop, then to get comfortable and settled in again...and I kept a knit wool cap over him-in-my-palm to keep the warmth in.

Got a mild arm cramp at one point, but it worked out akay all in all...

Golly, when they are this little, and with no sibling, and ill at that, I hate to have them sleep the night all by themselves, so, 'Palm Nest' it shall be I recon...

Anyway, yahhhhh, the 'Nipple' works well for them to eat out of. Takes a little finessing to guide the little nuzzleing Beak into it, and to gently squeeze the Nipple sides so they can 'feel' it there on the sides of their Beak...but soon they are fast and easy with it and just chow-down wonderfully.

Works very well, and lets me gradually introduce more coarsly ground whole Seeds, then small whole Seeds and fine Grit, and then guiding the Beak into a slightly different small form with just small plain, dry Seeds into it for 'Seed-Gobbleing', and then they are pecking really, once they have done the 'gobble' a few times. Although usually, by then they are pecking anyway, for me setting them where other older Birds are pecking, so...works out well for all.

Even youg feral Adults with just-about-white Nares, who have been injured or who are ill, will sometimes eat this way for a few days, then once feeling better they revert to their 'grown-up' ways again and look at me narrowly or with mild rebuke, if I offer the 'Nipple' to them, Lol...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, sure wish you could set up a camera so we can see your sleeping arrangement with your new baby. You are so funny. 

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie, 


Well, night-two sleeping in palm-nest, and I forgot how interesting this is to do. Having the back of my hand against the light-towell covered Heating Pad, and with the Wool knit Cap over all, there are various fine-tuneings to get the temperature just right, in his opinion I mean.

If he is not warm enough, I can feel him make little shivvers now and then or fidget trying to find a warmer position...if too warm, I can feel him breathing differently, so, little adjustments to the Wool Cap and so on, or to how close to the edge of it my hand is, or to how the bottom edges of the Cap may let some cool air in, and they need to let just a little cool air in, all matter, to get it all just 'right' and then he just nestles in and everything feels steady and calm and he sleeps nicely.

Weighed him before his breakfast this morning, 50 Grams...

He has Black feet and pink Legs...

"Peeps" are stronger now too..."Peeep!Peeeep!Peeeeeeep!"


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, simply put - wonderful. 

Maggie


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## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

Awww!

sounds like you 2 have bonded


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## Mistifire (May 27, 2004)

The nipple feeding idea looks much easier than what I did with my first baby, I took a large straw, (the kind that if you blow in it whistles because of the ridges, and would suck the food up on one side), plug it with my finger and slowly let it out as the baby ate it. More than a few times I got a mouth full of food, and more than once baby got food on her head because she pulled away from the straw as the food came out. As she got bigger I got her to eat from a small cup. 

If I ever do it again I think I will try the nipple idea, seems better because it is not above their head and I wont end up eatting the food.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lovebirds said:


> cute baby,,,,,,,,,,,,so the nipple thing, you just put the food in and the baby sucks it out?? Pretty cool and a lot better than the way I do it. We both need a bath after I feed a baby!!LOL


Hi Lovebirds,


Yes, or they eat it really in 'gobbles'...they open that little Beak "WIDE" believe me...! And they just chow-down nice-as-pie.

Of course the Food must be somewhat 'soupy' and tepid and made carefully in various ways...


For the truely tiny ones or Baby Doves I just use the cut-off bottom narrow part of a Nipple, and it is better for their tiny little Beaks to chow-down in.

This one, in the image, being a whole Nipple but with it's mounting flange cut off, is about right for this Baby and will do him well from here on till he loses interest and wishes instead to just peck his own Seeds and so on.

I always continue to offer the Nipple-feeds even into when they are flying and self feeding well, and let them be the judge of when they do not want it anymore, and there is always a point when they decide, so, I have never had any 'weaning' problems ever with any of them.

But by then, or well before then, I do not 'offer' it more then once-a-day, then, once every other day, once they are flying decently and of course by then, long since able self feeders with their pecking.
So that way it is a long easy tapering off during which their self-feeding becomes well established.

They just really like the gesture to still happen now and then...untill they feel too grown up to follow through anymore...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Mistifire said:


> The nipple feeding idea looks much easier than what I did with my first baby, I took a large straw, (the kind that if you blow in it whistles because of the ridges, and would suck the food up on one side), plug it with my finger and slowly let it out as the baby ate it. More than a few times I got a mouth full of food, and more than once baby got food on her head because she pulled away from the straw as the food came out. As she got bigger I got her to eat from a small cup.
> 
> If I ever do it again I think I will try the nipple idea, seems better because it is not above their head and I wont end up eatting the food.



Hi Mistfire, 


Too, at some point, it is usually very easy to offer a very small container of small whole Seeds, say like a small Shot-Glass or the likes so it is deep yet small in diameter, and, keeping one's finger tips on their little Beak, they will 
'gobble' the Seeds and fill themselves up in no time. 

This then, after a couple rounds, let them begin pecking proper, as, they 'see' the Seeds then as something to eat, and, from the 'gobble' comes quite easily, the 'peck'.

Although some begin pecking anyway regardless...! - especially if they can be right next to other Birds who are pecking Seeds...

They will often be able at pecking even at 14 days if allowed to or led to it...but I would not let them 'just' do that, or do it too much, though I will let them do a little while mostly staying with the Nipple-Formula-feeds for a while yet...


Too, when they first learn to peck, one must keep a good eye on them that they do not over-stuff themselves in their enthusiasm, which they will do, too, reliably!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

I had no idea baby birds would overeat if allowed to do it. That is good for me to know along with a million other things you guys have all told me. You know you are turning me into the bird person I never imagined I would become but I am addicted to these pigeons now that I have two. The two of them are cooing away at each other as I speak and I worry the landlord is going to hear them and give me you know what. 

Anyway Phil, I thought I had my new computer set up tonight and would be able to see your pics but I am still having some trouble. Think it is my video card because I bought it second hand. I am looking forward to seeing the pic's once I get organized though. I can't picture for some reason your explanation of nipple feeder and I just need to see it to really get what you mean and see how it's done. How is that baby doing tonight by the way? 

It sure is nice to have a fast computer for a change though. Now I can be goofy at ten or twenty times the speed of before! Lol.

Cameron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Yes, Phil, I, too, am wondering how "Winter" is doing. Have you chosen a name?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cameron, mistersqueaks,


Oh, somehow I became terrible at names!

I used to name them all, then after a hiatus of being between homes, when I got back into it somewhat I could not think of names anymore...!

'Winter' is a nice name though...

(S)he is doing very well..strong little Legs and Wings, Feathers now sprouting like gangbusters! Great appetite, comes trotting out and so on when I call them, out of their little 'Squeaker Warm House' set-up, although they are still a 'Peeper' and not quite a 'Squeaker' yet...

Got a gob of food dried on their neck where I forgot to clean it off...(ooops, sorry little one...but they do not seem to care, so...)

I would put some images here if I had not lost some dpi or bit shrinking deal I used to have, but I reinstalled everything last week after wipeing my hard drive clean, and I do not know what that program was that made it so easy to shrink them to the right size...so...

Anyway, Cameron, yes, Older Babys who just learn to peck, as well as some adults when recovering from illness or injury where they are HUNGRY! will over eat and it could injur them as the Seeds swell in hydrating in their Crop.

I have seen more then one 'hard' Tennis-Ball Crop that scared me when they have done this...never seen an injury from it but it could happen, it could rupture their Crop...so...one needs to keep an eye on the neophyte juvenile or older Baby pecker, and, sometimes, the rallying convelescent adult...! 

Or just make sure they do not have access to more Seeds than one wishes for them to eat at any one stretch of time anyway...

Almost Midnight now...added some today's pictures of the little one...

http://community.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

What a nice story Phil! Good life to the little one and his nipple  

Suz.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Phil, 

I am touched by your compassion and intellegence.
Winter is adorable, but so are you!!!!!

Feather


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Wonderful update and pictures, Phil! Thank you again for saving this little one!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Ohhhhhh...Lol...

Being a mild Sunny day here, we did 'Sun-Peeper' for about a half hour, where I set him out in the Sunshine in an airy Cage with some soft cloths...

Little Winter-Baby seemed to enjoy it, and was all agog and interested at the many ferals perching or flying about, but, after ohhhhh, a half hour he was getting chilled so I brought him back into to the Heating Pad set-up.

But, he had fun anyway for a while...68 degrees out...but even that is a bit too cool for one his age for more than a little while.

Otherwise, putting away about 20 mL at-a-feed as of today...was 14ish yesterday for each meal...and, with say eight or nine or ten feeds, thats around 160 - to - 200 mLs a-day at this rate.

The Nipple holds about 7 mLs, so from one, to two, to now 'three' Nipple-Fulls for each meal. Soon it will be four-in-a-row for each meal...Lol...

Oh! They love to eat...and I know he could eat more, but oh well...I fear to feed him overmuch, especialy with it being 'soupy' and all.

We started 20 percet small whole Seeds today in the formula also, with a dash of Canary Grit for good measure...

Lots of little Feathers sprouting too...


...chuckle...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil - 200 cc? Wow, he is going to look like Alaska's Elle. I would estimate we average about 120 cc per day.

Maggie


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Very useful group of photos. Thanks for sharing them, Phil! Winter is definitely an eager-eater!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Phil - 200 cc? Wow, he is going to look like Alaska's Elle. I would estimate we average about 120 cc per day.
> 
> Maggie



He loves to eat...!


So, what else can I do???

I will weigh him later if I remember to...he was "50 grammes" on the morning of day two.


Well, if he has an empty Crop, then I fill it...!

If it is not just-about-empty, 'peep' all he likes, I will stall...or maybe just give a little meal.

So, he seems to handle it allright...

Heck, if I had the courage, I WOULD stuff them like their parents do!

I am too timid...I fear they will have it come back 'up' and make problems, so...I remain a little conservative.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Very useful group of photos. Thanks for sharing them, Phil! Winter is definitely an eager-eater!



Maybe the three days he went with no chow and being chilled...kinda got him wound up for keeping up one good Head of Steam from here on..!

That, and there's a lot of growing to do too!


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

You are some kind of MOM, Phil! What a little cutie! Can't wait to see what little "Winter" will look like all grown up! Sure bet s(he) is one healthy pij!!

Keep up the great work! You are an amazing 'foster' pigeon parent!

Your pictures and comments will be MOST helpful to others who find themselves in a similiar situation!


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Phil I just read your story and looked at all of Winters*

Pictures how cute the little guy/she? is. You are a wonderful pigeon parent. I can't wait to see him when the feathers come in. Please keep the photo's coming. Thanks Phil... 

Andi


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Phil,

How is Winter doing? I can't imagine him/her being so strong. 

Feather


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Phil,

I really enjoyed looking at all the picture. Winter is a doll! 

Linda


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Great pictures Phil,

I could see the nipple feeder too so now it makes sense. That bird just looks so fragile to me, so tiny. Love the name that Shi picked out. It suits the little guy perfectly. Hopefully it sticks. But with so many feedings are you having to getting up at night too? That's something I wondered about. I guess the parents wouldn't though so maybe that doesn't make sense. Birds actually seem to me to have a good sense for sleep and rest. Up at dawn, tucked in by dusk. That's a solid 8 to 12 hours sack time depending on the time of year. They have it made! Keep up the good work.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cameron,


Ohhhh, whatever Birds here of any age, would tend to keep about the same hours I do, whatever those may be, but of course, they are usually 'up' at Dawn, whether I am or not, and, as for me, it would be rare for me to be up that early! Unless I am 'still' up that is.

But, we all get to bed 'late' anyway...2:00 or 3:00 or so in the A.M.s usually.

Babys, whether little Doves or Pigeons such as the little 'Winter' Baby...I try and feed according to how much their Crops will hold with safety, and, according to how their Crops empty.

So, this then, for this Baby, seems to be about every two hours, with a feeding to fill his Crop 2/3rds 'full'.

Which now means about 21 mLs every two hours.

I check him between times also, which of course gets him all wound up and active, but, if at two hours I do not think his Crop has emptied enough from the last round, then I would stall a while till the next feed-time.

Their Pigeeon parents of course follow their own wisdom, which is better than mine, and they just stuff them to the gills so their Crops are never permitted to empty, but are full all the time. Full and 'bulgeing' to beat the Band, so the toddler can hardly walk without his Crop dragging and pulling him over frontwise with it's weight even!

I just fear to do this like Pigeon parents do..! 

So I err on the side of the shy side of "2/3rds full" and call it good enough, and do it every two hours thereabouts, or as may be for the individual...letting their Crop pretty near empty by the time the next feeding occurs.

Maybe it works out fairly close anyway this way...as, at least their Crop is never really empty, but with my feedings, it just has less in it at any given moment.


They are pretty tiny and delicate their first week or so...if 'rubbery' and so on by day five or so I suppose! - and ambulating soon after that or around then anyway. In Nature they usually have little or no where to ambulate 'to', what with most Nest's situations, so, for them it is really an unusual situation when they may.

Winter can really scoot out of his little warm-house too, when chow time rolls around, believe me, he can SCOOT...! Those little legs really get some moves going for themselves, as do those little Wings, and his 'Peeeeep! Peeeeeep! Peeeeeep!' vocals...it never ceases to amaze and amuse and endear me.

So, when I am awake, he gets fed about every two hours for however long that may be...usually something like 8:00 A.M. or 9:00, till 2:00 or 3:00 or so A.M., when it is 'Lights Out' time for all good little Beaks of whatever age to get some sleepy-pie-time, and, for me to do so as well...

Of course he naps off and on all day too...

And, at least once so far, I joined him at it...

Lol...

One interesting thing among many, is, at is age, with the Feathers only starting to sprout, you can really see how their Thigh is under their side's skin and not out and free from it as one might suppose...or as ours is.

This is one reason I suppose, why it is not easy to 'feel' a Pigeon's thigh if wishing to investigate a possible fracture there; the whole thigh is really 'in' their side in effect, under the skin there, and only really emerges at their knee.

Maybe I can get an image of this...but he does not hold still for the Camera, or for anything else!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Added s'more pics...taken a coupld days ago...

Meant to weigh him before breakfast today, but forgot...

Set him out in the Sunshine again yesterday in a light cage, and he seemed to enjoy it. All the ferals were close by grazing and he never once peeped for anyone to feed him, so...he seems to be satisfied I suppose with my parenting.

...the many ferals of course were a little curious and I did not miss the opportunity to show him off to them. Many of them have Babys presently, and one sees evidence of this in noteing the damp or tender appearance to the corners of their mouths from feeding their little ones.

I see one young Squeaker peeking out at times up in my eve but can not tell if there is only one or if there are two up there.

He is doing very well, comes running out when called for chow-times, and goes back in as he likes into his Squeaker Warm House which this time I have kept set up on my bed next to my pillow so I can slip my hand in there for him to nestle in as I sleep at night.

Seems to work out pretty nicely, and when nighty-night time comes around, I just slip my hand in there palm up and he climbs into it and settles down for sleepy-pie...and this usually lasts some hours untill I decide to roll over which makes for an intermission of Hand-Nest then till I roll back again.

Feathers are sprouting of course and puhhhhh-lenty of 'em, too...!


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Winter is looking very good! What a little cutie!

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, you're a mess! And I say that with affection and admiration. Your hand is bound to be cramped during the night.  

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie, 


Fortunately, when having him sleep the Night in my palm, with my hand reached into his little Warm-House, I do not tend to cramp...but, a few times, I have twitched, or jerked globally, while sleeping which woke me up somewhat ( likely some Calcium uptake issue of mine, needing better diet...or some crossed 'wires' maybe, ) which of course was some startle to him, and to me! But he did not mind and immediately settled back in to slumberland...

I am an occasional jerk, or a twitch it seems, but no cramper...so, thus are some of my blessings...

Lol...

Anyway, eating ( - him eating I mean,) around 30 to 35 mL the-meal now, and about five or six meals a-day. ( Long days 'cause of my hours, so his last meal might be 3:00 A.M. 4:00 or so, and Breakfast around 8:00 or 9:00...)

He weighed 120 gms last weigh in...

He is so active it is hard to get images! Unless I were to want "blurrs"...but I will get some soon and show him off some more...

Pale Grey Back and Wings, Black Tail and Crop...happy little 'Licorice' Beak...


Best wishes...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Oh boy, I hope youre not eating him. It would be a small meal I think...(?)
Hope I don't upset anyone with my kooky humour. Maybe I'm a jerk too.

OH well. Guess I can live with it. What the heck, life is too short with out a little humour in it.

So, 120 grams. That sounds to be a big bird fast. It's only been a short while too. That would be about 25% of the way to adulthood in such a short time. I think you have a little fatty on your hands Phil so no surprise if you cramp up a bit.

I'm glad to hear about the little one again. Winter has been on my mind lately.

Cameron.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, thanks for the update. Looking forward to pictures of Winter when you get a chance.

Maggie


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Hi everyone,
I was just checking in on Winter. Glad to here he still sleeps in his very special little nest. Don't get to use to this Phil, by the way your feeding him, you're going to have a big fat bird in no time.

Feather


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Feather,


Well, I know their Pigeon Parents stuff them even more than I do!

We started 'Seed-Gobble' last night, where, keeping my finger-tips on the sides of his Beak, I guide his Beak into a little Shot-Glass full of small whole Seeds, and, instead of gobbleing withhis Beak in the Nipple, he gobbles in the little Seed Glass...


And, it works very well for them, so I let him gobble away there for ohhhhh, nine seconds or something, which was long enough for him to eat about 10 millitres of Seeds. Then we did a few rounds of formula on top of that, so...he was happy with it, and now we are doing that for every meal. 

Somehow I missed a round somewhere for doing the moist warm 'Oshi Borii' ( or however one spells it, ) tidy-up after a meal, so, now, he has some dried formula on his feathers on the front of him and on his forehead, and I am embarassed to make images showing this...!

Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

*Phil and Winter*

But those are the images we love the most!

Feather


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

I've been looking for the recent pictures that you posted, couldn't find them, so I thought it was your fault. Something told me to come back and look with the first pictures. And there he was with all those Q-tips. Wow, he is growing and indeed is spirited. I didn't notice before that he was sporting a little MOHAWK. 

You do make me smile Phil,

Feather


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

*Where did my baby go?*

Phil,
I stopped by to view little Winter's pictures and to see if there was an update on the progress of this Baby. What happened to the newer pictures that you posted? 

Feather


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Feather,



Thank you for asking after him...!

The Camera floppy disc was developing some problem so whatever images were on it got lost.


Made a few newer ones earlier today, so...the last four images are todays...

http://community.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU


Last few days, we started doing various guiding of his beak into either the hollow of my fist, or into a little narrow glass, for 'Seed-Gobbles'...starting out with tiny sseeds, then graduating to mixed sizes...and, after about the fifth time of that, he did not need my fingers on his Beak anymore, but would dive in and start gobbleing...


So, this morning, I just put some Seeds in my palm, and he tried to 'gobble' which of course did not work since there was no depth for his Beak...

And, I just said, "Oh Baby...you just gotta peck these Seeds..." and after a few seconds of Gobble not working, he stood back, rushed my hand to try gobbleing again, stood back again, and..well, pecked one...then he got qall excited and running in circles and so on, and came back, pecked a few more, and then, by golly, he had it "down" and I do mean "DOWN" too...

Big Seeds, little Seeds, in-between sized Seeds, Oatmeal flakes...'bam-bam-bam-bam-bam' like he had been doing if for years or something.

Never seen one do so well so fast and be able to do all the sizes right off the bat like this...

So, a little Champion, to be sure!


Feathers are very soft for some reason...very 'fine' and soft...I hope all is okay on that score...they are different than usual...

Pushing the "200" Gram mark now..but hard to get a decent read on the scale with all that Wing Action...


I guess he is right about 4 weeks old now...since, I think he was about 8 days old on the 7th, and had gone 3 days with no food and almost no water, which kind of left him not much to grow on there for that period...so he looked like he was 5 days old when I got him...

Such a charmer!

Now, he comes running out of his little house when he wants a drink of Water, and, it is a little different than the running out to be fed mode...and, getting his drink, turns, and runs back in...

The running out for food mode, he does not go back in so soon...even when stuffed!
I have to say, "You are STUFFED kiddo, time to go back in now and day dream and digest...so, you should just go ruminate now in dreamy warm repose..." and after a few rounds of that, he turns and runs back in, then stands there looking out, 'peeping'...till I move out of sight.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

*Sharp little guy for being so tiny*

Winter Baby sure is coming along nicely. I was comparing the two sets of pictures. Thank you for keeping us posted. He's a little trooper, and it is good to know that you two are learning each other's languages. In those pictures his little wings are always in a different position, which indicates to me the kid is always on the go.

You're a great pigeon parent Phil,
Feather


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Phil,
Is Winter Baby "silky" feathered? If he is, guess you'll have a roommate for life, not that you'll mind. Boy, is that baby doing great, and growing like a weed.
daryl


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

That description of Winter learning to peck seeds was just great, Phil! Bless his heart! He sure sounds like quite the character pigeon!  

Many thanks for the update!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

pigeonmama said:


> Phil,
> Is Winter Baby "silky" feathered? If he is, guess you'll have a roommate for life, not that you'll mind. Boy, is that baby doing great, and growing like a weed.
> daryl



Hi daryl,


May be...!


I do not know about 'silky Feathered' as something I have ever seen before...

But his Feathers are very 'fine' and more like down....very soft and fine...

His almost black Crop Feathers seem robust and lush, seem 'normal' to me, but the rest of him, along his back and thighs, well, he never really was a 'quill-bug' at all...he never had that 'Quilly' stage...just very slender fine short soft quills, and the soft fine downy Feathers comeing out of them...

I will try and get some close-ups Feather wise and Quill wise and you can see what you think...

I guess I will find out anyway as things go on.

Now, he had Canker ( or at least, chalky yellow urates) when I got him, so...for a week, I had him on 'Citromed' ( in his Water for forrrrrmula and drinks) oweing to how I take it to be easy on little ones, and, so far, in various Babys I have had with either for sure Canker, or probable Canker, it has worked very well, and with no suggestion it had effected their Feathering, but, none had been so young as he.

So...

Otherwise, a robust, active, happy and bright little Squablette, nee 'peeper'...and very bright and fast to learn things.

We still do the sleepy-pie-time with him in my palm with my hand in his warm-House...only now, he pretty well fills and covers my hand instead of needing my palm cupped and fingers half around him to nestle in to...


Thank you...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Feather and mrsqueaks...!


He is exceptionally bright and good natured...!


Really, he does not need the warm House to be 'warm' now, but I will leave that be for a while yet...mostly when at rest, he elects the cool part now, but soon, he will start to hang out outside of it anyway...

His 'Nest'...for now, is still the 'Base Camp' for the running out to be fed or get-a-drink forays...and otherwise, for now, he hangs out in there...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil, 

I got a chuckle out of the pictures of Winter baby...lol. The ones where he's in that wool hat or what looks like a hat. Maybe it's a sweater, I don't know but those were cute. He does look quite active shown by all those blurry shots with his wings just a going. 

He's in good hands so he should be doing very well. Out of curiosity, what ever happened to the two little ones that one of your pairs were raising a bit ago? The pair where the mother flew away and didn't come back. Dad was raising the babies on his own for awhile. Sorry if this has already been mentioned by yourself, but I thought of this the other day. I however don't remember reading or hearing what the outcome was.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Brad,



The Big Daddy and Romona ( who flew off because, recovered free rove feral that she was, who had not been outside in months, dummy me, I thought she might like some fresh air and fly time!) Babys...

Big Daddy raised them from 3 days old all by himself, kept them stuffed and snug and sat on them double shifts and all...I would spell him sometimes for a little break with my hand over the Babys, and, he sort of grudgeingly accepted that, but kept his breaks 'short'...

They grew up splendidly, largish ( bigger than him!) blue-band and light backs and light wings...socialized here inside with, and were mentored by various inside free roveing feral-wild (Pigeon and Dove) others as well as by their poppa...began their going outside to graze with outside feral others as neophyte fliers while I was trying to get some of the recovered adult Doves outta here...( I had maybe nine or ten flying recovered Pigeons and Doves in here at that time...plus, the two ground-Birds, their poppa and my PPMV Gal)...

Would go out, goof off a while, graze with the feral flock, fly back in...adult recovered doves would fly back in too...sigh...perched in the old hanging cieling light with the Doves at night...

And with me having done a whole lot of not much to involve myself with them other than to say 'Hello!' now and then...they eventually joined the feral flock for keeps, and did not come back inside again after a while...and all the at-that-time free-roving recovered feral adult or raised by me Ba bys who gre up, all those others all have gone back out into the World but one Dove I had raised, and two of the recovered feral Pigeons that became mated, come back in several times a week to goof off a little, eat some seeds, and fly back out...like they did today for that matter...


So, a very fine success story all in all, in every way...


Big Daddy ( who has an five month ago or so me-botch-job Wing and can not fly, but is very handsome and a fine character) eventually courted wooed and won my wonderful dreamy PPMV survivor hen ( who probably could fly, does fantastic wing excercises where she 'Helicopters' three feet up and stays there for like 10 seconds) , and those two are constant Love Birds, always near eachother, napping or grazing or making little moaning sounds and gently twitching and nodding as they get preened by eachother...made two nests as well as they each roost in Big Daddy and Romona's old (under my dresser) Nest...laying next to eachother like little Boats-on-shore...

No Eggs...but, who knows on that...


So, that's the up-date on that...! with some sidelights...

They were Winter-Babys too I suppose, those two...born Jan'y Second I think it was...


How nice your asking after them!

You have a good memory!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a cutie little Winter is! Those little wings flapping are so precious. Glad s/he is doing well. It will be interesting to see how the feathers turn out.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Phil...

Ah..yes, that's right, Big Daddy and Ramona.... Well, I'm glad to hear that the youngsters that Big D and yourself raised, were successfully integrated back into your wild flock. That is/was the ultimate goal anyway. 

I just couldn't remember whether or not that story was followed up on or not, or it I missed it. I'm glad it all worked out then and that I asked


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

It is hard to weigh critters isn't it, and no matter what type. Wings flapping and all. When I had my last cat and needed a weight that was accurate I put him in a wicker basket with a lid and then put the basket on the scale. After subtracting the basket weight I could get at the right number. It's a lot easier than just trying to put someone on the scales and hoping they will sit still. Hope that helps with Winter.

Cameron


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*


Camrron said:



It is hard to weigh critters isn't it, and no matter what type. Wings flapping and all. When I had my last cat and needed a weight that was accurate I put him in a wicker basket with a lid and then put the basket on the scale. After subtracting the basket weight I could get at the right number. It's a lot easier than just trying to put someone on the scales and hoping they will sit still. Hope that helps with Winter.

Cameron

Click to expand...

*Yep, I always say that sometimes desperation is the mother of invention!  

I do the same thing when I go to the Vet's office. I weigh cat-in-carrier and then just subtract how much the carrier weighs.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cameron,



Lol....

Yes, good idea...!

I will put little ( not-so-little) Winter (more an imminent Juvenile than a) Baby into some sort of small Box, close it up, weight him that-a-way, then weigh and subtract the Box...

Otherwise, yea...those Wings! - if I am anywhere near, they are just going a mile a minute. The poor Gram Scale's Needle ( it is like an old fashioned Kitchen counter top scale, a Spring type with the dial front face ) just jumps from about 100 to 300 grams, so, I figured, somewhere in the 'middle' was his weight...

Lol...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, you sure are a good daddy!

Maggie


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Glad you liked my idea Phil.

Back not so long ago when I was still married, I used to weigh our three dogs in a similar fashion. I would pick up a dog, stand on the household scale and get my better half to read the scale for me. Then weigh myself and subtract. She always got a kick out of that. She was good natured that way. Course, like I say that was in the days before she decided I was disagreeable.

Oh well, at least I know how to weigh dogs. 

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...


220 grams now, and, this morning, did his first Wing Excercises, where previously, always Wing Action of course, but this, now, is real 'flapping' excercise going on...lasted about 30 seconds...

A champion pecking Bird...! And ws from his first occasion of trying; dried Peas, whole Corn, White Safflower, Milo, he loves them all and they all get eaten promptly.

I am still offering his warm formula in the Nipple and he consumes the Nipple's contets in about one/fourth of a second or so...Lol...so, I let him have several re-fills of course...

Starting to nap or day dream ( really, starting several days ago, ) now outside of his 'Nest', which of course is his Squeaker-Warm-House set-up...

Took him outside again yesterday for him to get to be a Sun Bird in a Cage for a while, then, we did vists on the ground the feral others and he pecked and grazed a little with them but was distracted somewhat with all the sights and commotions of it.

My feral Cat friend came over while he was in the cage previously, she deftly climbed up next to it and was intently looking at him! and it scared him...I shooed her off ( normally she is not around to be seen by day, but I realized too, that she is pregnant and so she is maybe thinking of my Work Shop to have her Kittens in seeing as I have been friendly to her) and for a little while, when I had him then on the ground to do some pecking, he wished only to snuggle against my shirt in my hand, so, I think the Cat scared him...and I am glad he is so savvy about that matter...

Usually she only shows up at night, and we have an understanding that she is welcome to come into my Shop and hunt Mice, which she does...and then leaves when she has caught one to go off and eat elsewhere...

Oh golly...

Love,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Phil,

From the first time I saw the photo of that tiny little creature standing there, I thought....Oh My....he is a big bird in a baby's body. 

It only stands to reason that the hand that fed him, the hand that kept him warm....is the place that he would find comfort when he was afraid.

Thank you for the update,

Feather


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Phil, I know you are on your trip, but I wish I could check in on your little Winter for you. I wouldn't be surprized if you took him with you.

Feather


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