# Culling Method



## james_606 (Feb 11, 2007)

For those who are able to start with the best foundation stocks maybe culling is not a problem. But for me who started with free pigeons from club members I'd like to know your inputs on what to do when you come to a point when you can say that this or that bird is just taking a space on my loft and feeds. Nobody in club wants them not even new members let alone sell it. Do I really have to cull them or just have them separated? thanks.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

How many birds are you talking about, James? If it isn't a huge number, you might want to list them for adoption in our adoption forum and see if some of our members would like to have them as pets.

You may also have a retirement home or similar place in your area that would be interested in having a few of the birds as pets for the residents/patients. You would probably have to do some education about their care and help set up an appropriate aviary for them, but I think that would be a worthwhile project for all concerned.

Lethal culling isn't an option here on Pigeon-Talk, so let's all come up with some better solutions for James.

Terry


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Where are you located James?

I also like the idea of may setting up an aviary in a local retirement / assisted living facility. My parents recently moved into an assisted living home and there is a cockatiel or parrot (don't know why - but I just can't remember right now  ) kept in the lobby -- all the residents are cautioned not to touch and all just seem to love this bird. Bringing him treats; calling him "their" bird - it so fun to listen and see (for me). In the case of Pigeons/Doves the ability to handle them (with some instruction) would be even better. Very theraputic for the residents too - so you may have an enthusiatic reception if you propose the idea. And think of all the good education you can promote too 

My 2 cents anyway


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I would love to discuss this issue, however this topic is censored by admin policy so i have to respect that even if I'm against censorship as a rule! For we can only move forward with a healthy debate on any issue! Enough said!


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

There's SOMEBODY out there that'll take the bird(s), either as a pet or as the start of their stock loft. 
If you really don't want it and can't find anyone to take it just turn it loose and let it be the problem of the guy that gave it to you to begin with! Even if it doesn't go back to whence it came it'll survive in the wild.


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> I would love to discuss this issue, however this topic is censored by admin policy so i have to respect that even if I'm against censorship as a rule! For we can only move forward with a healthy debate on any issue! Enough said!


 DEEJAY,,
Don't get your butter in a flutter,,, this isn't about censorship,,, this forum was basically created for those who choose to rehab pigeons.. 
There are a lot of folks out there that find feeding and helping pigeons have a happier life,, makes their day..
You need to understand there are alot of folks who can't have a pigeon loft on their balcony,, the most they can do is hope they can feed a few pigeons at a park,, or hope to help a bird in need..
Its only recently that they have opened up a new forum and called it "Racing and Homing Pigeons" for those that also raise that particular pigeon..
That being said,,, Culling doesn't equal killing.. It just means,, that particular bird doesn't fit in your plans.. that doesn't mean it can't fit in someone elses plans.. thats where this forum comes in,,, If you have something that doesn't fit,, there are several people here that may have a home for it..
There are a lot of folks who exchange pigeons for color projects,, just because a particular color crops up that you don't need,, you find someone who can use it in their project.. Thats culling also,, but,, not in a way that some take it to be..
Understand?,, sort of?
Gary H.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm sure there's someone out there that would like to take your birds 
If they are good quality, you'll probably have an easier time finding them new homes. Like the others said, you could try posting them in the adoption forum. Or, if you have some type of paper or place you can put an ad in around you're home (like in NC, we have the Agriculture Review, which has a classifieds section for things from poultry and pigeons to tractors. There's always the newspaper too!). Just make sure the person you're giving them too isn't going to use them for bad things like target practice 
The reason I suggest you try putting an ad in local classifieds is that there may be someone out there interested in getting started with pigeons...and may not want to spend a load of money to get their first ones. If it wasn't for that Ag. Review paper, it would have taken forever for me to find someone with homers and rollers!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

My apologies thanks for educating me, my only experience with culling comes from life experiences(with old time fly-ers ) and on the farm and for the most part things ended up on the table! Now I know what type of culling people here on this site are referring to thanks again!


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> My apologies thanks for educating me, my only experience with culling comes from life experiences(with old time fly-ers ) and on the farm and for the most part things ended up on the table! Now I know what type of culling people here on this site are referring to thanks again!


 DEEJAY,,
No big thing,, we all have to learn to adjust to our surroundings..
We have to adjust ,, and hopefully,, those who have never lived the lives we have can also understand where we come from,, its a two way street..
Personally,, I have gottin a little softer on the subject..
Unfortunately,,, there are a few that are a little crass,, but,, those you just have to ignore..
I have been a bit crass myself.. but at the end of the day,, our true colors will show thru..
Gary H.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

james_606 said:


> For those who are able to start with the best foundation stocks maybe culling is not a problem. But for me who started with free pigeons from club members I'd like to know your inputs on what to do when you come to a point when you can say that this or that bird is just taking a space on my loft and feeds. Nobody in club wants them not even new members let alone sell it. Do I really have to cull them or just have them separated? thanks.


James,
What point do you feel you are now with your pigeons? Are you needing tp place some now or is the question really about a possible future situation?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*The Definition Of "Cull"*

Please see this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cull

There is no problem with culling your birds and talking about it here on Pigeon-Talk as long as you are not killing them. Killing the birds is lethal culling, and that is not an allowed topic here .. period.

Incidentally, the Racing Pigeon forum has been around for a long time .. the Performing Breeds forum is a new one, however.

As to releasing unwanted racing pigeons or show birds .. yes, some of them can and do survive out there on their own, but thousands of them (literally thousands of them) end up on 911 Pigeon Alert because they weren't doing so well out there on their own and got found and rescued by a member of the public. Many of these are racing pigeons that got off course because of bad weather, predator attack, or just simply weren't up to the race they were put in and are not ones intentionally released to fend for themselves. Others, however are intentionally released to fend for themselves and are woefully unable to do so. I have no doubt that countless other thousands perish before they find someone to help them. I'm also quite sure that there are probably thousands that are released to fend for themselves that do OK. Releasing pigeons that are used to having food, water, and shelter provided to them is right up there with dumping your unwanted cats/dogs and hoping they will be OK .. it ain't OK in my book.

A popular "outlet" here in Southern California is a bird farm company. I happened to be in the store near me about a week ago and was appalled at the condition of the pigeons that were there for sale. This particular company takes excellent care of the pigeons and doves that come in to them, but the whole cage of fancy pigeons that were there were quite obviously very, very sick. Somebody sold his or her "culls" for $1.50 each and those birds are now at the mercy of whomever may decide to buy them for the "princely" sum of $3.00-$6.00 each or will simply die because the store can't realistically invest anything in saving a $1.50 pigeon .. it's very sad.

I will be getting a very beautiful unbanded pigeon from George Simon, who is "culling" the bird. This bird came in as a rescue to me, and I thought it might be useful to George in his Saddle Homer project. That turned out not to be the case, so George will be returning the bird to me .. that is culling the right way, IMO.

Terry


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> Please see this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cull
> 
> There is no problem with culling your birds and talking about it here on Pigeon-Talk as long as you are not killing them. Killing the birds is lethal culling, and that is not an allowed topic here .. period.


I asked culling question before and haven't say any thing about killing ..Just asked How do we culling pigeon? But my topic had been removed ..


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

1pigeon said:


> I asked culling question before and haven't say any thing about killing ..Just asked How do we culling pigeon? But *my topic had been removed* ..


Your thread wasn't removed, 1pigeon, but it was closed.

I believe I closed it because you specifically asked, if anyone had heard of any bad experiences with culling. At the time, it seemed like an open invitation to what would probably have ended up in a heated debate.

Cindy


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

And this thread is going nowhere and hovering on the borders of inviting unwelcome discussion whether we like it or not.

John.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi James606,

Maybe my take on your question is different from some of the others here on this site.

It sounds to me that you are asking what phisical/mental attributes make me keep one pigeon over another?

Is this the case?
Lawman

P.S. 

As for the rest of the bandwagon on this site, how you chose to cull your birds is your business and no one elses unless your asking for help in finding them a new home? 

In that case I am certain that we have moderators on this site that can help you do that, rather than read you the riot act; As some tend to do from time to time when you dont agree with them (IN LOCK STEP FASHION)Dont take it personel guys just pointing out the truth!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I find this subject fascinating to talk about now that I know what methods of culling is being discussed, it is easy to see how those that race and fly their birds can cull their flocks because they have many more options, they can give excess birds to people trying to get started or let the basket determine which have the right stuff to earn a spot in the loft, like a long distance toss, sounds cruel I know but you cant expect every fly-er to be able to sell excess birds or even give them away just not possible considering the breeding going on from year to year! So if it is difficult for those that fly birds how much more difficult it must be for those that raise pigeons just for show, I mean they also breed birds trying to get that special bird with all the right stuff and when that is lacking how do they cull their birds, you can only give away so many birds and many people that show birds probably wouldn't want a so so bird and those people that would take in birds can only support so many birds themselves so the problem really gets worse from year to year as i see it, so this is a very sad problem which will never go away, the caring, thoughtful, loving idea to find a home for every unwanted pigeon is very much applauded however the numbers are stacked against this, and humane societies really aren't sad to say!


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

He has a point... I have tried not to say anything in this post knowing I would get practically yelled at! but he has a point there are only so many homes. So as say, that i know in the racing world, if they dont produce off with their heads?!? and many breeders dont want there stock to be too common and everyone have a bird from him.... you dont get looked at in the pigeon world as a Saint if everyone has a bird from you and it sucks...


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Matt time for bed buddy, church time comes up pretty quick! lol


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Yeah me too but i got 3 hours on you!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Folks .. it's all about quality and not quantity. You need to know your birds and breed accordingly. If you are just breeding numbers and hoping to get lucky, then you probably won't be either lucky or a winner.

One of these days Foundling Lofts will be around .. I'm seriously considering taking my "throw away" birds and starting to show them. I won't be flying because I don't have the guts to do it. If I did, I think I could put at least a little fear into the local clubs as I have some of the best "rejects" around.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Basket Culling ..*

For shame .. 

Picture yourself as one of these birds and let us know how it feels and works out. BTW, you can let us know that you got found and reported to 911 PA and got helped otherwise you probably ended up dead as was intended.

Terry


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

This is a tough subject, brings out the emotions of everyone, only the brave will discuss without fear!


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

> you probably ended up dead as was intended.


When one uses the basket to determine which birds earn a perch and which don't the intention isn't for the birds to end up dead (at least not with me it isn't - why would I breed birds with the intention of them getting lost and ending up dead?). The hope for me is that they all make it back home from every toss and every race.
I think that for novice flyers such as myself the basket is a much more reliable method of culling than doing it by hand due to our lack of experience with being able to recognize a good bird with the naked eye. Besides, as I get older I become more and more aware of what a gift life is and unless I was going to eat the bird or it was sick beyond my ability to rehabilitate it I don't think that I'd have the heart to do it just because I didn't like the way a bird looked.
As far as considering the birds' "feelings", I find the projections of human abilities of reason, and emotions onto an animal offensive. I think it may be sort of an act of cruelty in itself, probably expecting too much of an animal that in all likelyhood only looks to us for food, water and shelter.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

we are talking about humane ways of culling, but the subject lends itself to just how impossible a task this can be when you deal with reality!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Boy......this thread is going no where FAST............


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lovebirds said:


> Boy......this thread is going no where FAST............



Lovebirds,

With the selection of the title for this thread.....you just know that it was going to end up pretty much non-productive. Every time we approach this topic from this angle, there will always be a member or two, who for whatever reason seems to disregard the fact that this is a Pigeon Life site, in spite the fact that everything is spelled out for them upfront...perhaps these people feel that they will win us over to their justification or reasoning ? There are plenty of other sites out there with whom they can go to in order to share their feelings with regard to lethal solutions. Why they feel they must push the envelope here and cause an uproar is beyond me. Unless they simply get some sort of twisted pleasure from their "sharing"....I think it demonstrates a lack of respect for the goals and objectives of Pigeon Life and it's members.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Lovebirds said:


> Boy......this thread is going no where FAST............


Yep! Just as John predicted. 



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Lovebirds,
> 
> With the selection of the title for this thread.....you just know that it was going to end up pretty much non-productive.
> 
> ...


And this is *exactly* how it's spelled out:
_*Please do not try to give us your 'justifications' for 'lethal culling', we have heard it all. If you hold an opinion about your 'right' to 'lethal culling' of unwanted pigeons and/or any animal, please keep it to yourself*_

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> This is a tough subject, brings out the emotions of everyone, only the brave will discuss without fear!......__________________
> Silence is Golden but speaking up is priceless!


And life is full of examples where wisdom dictates that silence is sometimes golden, especially when a guest in someone's house........


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Lovebirds,
> 
> With the selection of the title for this thread.....you just know that it was going to end up pretty much non-productive. Every time we approach this topic from this angle, there will always be a member or two, who for whatever reason seems to disregard the fact that this is a Pigeon Life site, in spite the fact that everything is spelled out for them upfront...perhaps these people feel that they will win us over to their justification or reasoning ? There are plenty of other sites out there with whom they can go to in order to share their feelings with regard to lethal solutions. Why they feel they must push the envelope here and cause an uproar is beyond me. Unless they simply get some sort of twisted pleasure from their "sharing"....I think it demonstrates a lack of respect for the goals and objectives of Pigeon Life and it's members.


Warren,
Well said. I agree.

Since breeding birds, whether race or show is part of this forum,we need to have a way to discuss selecting out birds we want to breed, show or fly. Perhaps we need to ban the word cull here, as in the pigeon world it is equated with kill. And as Terry said, it is about quality, not quantity. Learning from each other how we select which birds to breed leads to fewer, but quality birds. I spend weeks, if not months looking at my birds and trying to decide how to pair them up. Yes, there will be birds we will want to identify as not continuing in our lofts. With fewer birds, there will be more options to adopt them out. It is responsible management of one's loft.

Margaret


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Matt D. said:


> He has a point... I have tried not to say anything in this post knowing I would get practically yelled at! but he has a point there are only so many homes. So as say, that i know in the racing world, if they dont produce off with their heads?!? and many breeders dont want there stock to be too common and everyone have a bird from him.... you dont get looked at in the pigeon world as a Saint if everyone has a bird from you and it sucks...


Matt, 

You have been listening to the wrong people. There are many in the racing world that are just gamblers and the only thing they care about is winning. They don't care about the birds any more than they do a slot machine. I think you will find that the quality breeders throughout history cared about their birds first. Many birds don't perform well because of the lousy way they have been trained and cared for. It's easy for these guys to blame the bird instead of themselves.

Margaret


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If any one looks at the aspect of pigeon keeping, all your birds will some day be a cull. As you progress in your breeding loft you eliminate birds. One that at one was your best bird is no longer that best bird. Time to replace it. If one kept each bird you would at some point have more then you ever needed. Look at cull as reduction of uneeded stock. That is part of what it is. Quality first But then to maintain quality you must use some form of reduction/culling. Race birds tested help show propects But agin one can not keep all who make it home. I would not know the thousands of bird numbers raised each year. But do know in each loft only a small hand full are the top birds. The rest are lesser birds. in need of a new home.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Margarret said:


> Warren,
> Well said. I agree.
> 
> Since breeding birds, whether race or show is part of this forum,we need to have a way to discuss selecting out birds we want to breed, show or fly. *Perhaps we need to ban the word cull here, as in the pigeon world it is equated with kill.* And as Terry said, it is about quality, not quantity. Learning from each other how we select which birds to breed leads to fewer, but quality birds. I spend weeks, if not months looking at my birds and trying to decide how to pair them up. Yes, there will be birds we will want to identify as not continuing in our lofts. With fewer birds, there will be more options to adopt them out. It is responsible management of one's loft.
> ...


Margaret, you my friends, HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD...........I've "typed" that very sentence and deleted it more than you'll know. All you racing guys.......say what you will, but I have NEVER EVER heard a pigeon fancier say this word and it mean ANYTHING except exactly what I thought it meant. If you need to GIVE AWAY a bird, then that's what most of us who use the english language would say. "I need to let some birds go" or "I need to get rid of some birds"..........I also don't care WHAT the dictionary says....don't start copying quotes for me to read. Been around long enough to know what a pigeon person means when they say cull. Pure and simple. Maybe some of you "use" the word "differently" since coming to this forum, but if I could prove it (and we know I can't) I'd be willing to bet the vast majority knew exactly what they were saying when they used this word and NOW have "given" it a new meaning........... 
I've always known what was meant, therefore have never and still don't use the word when I need to move some birds. I GIVE, SELL, ADOPT OUT any extra birds. I've never offered anyone any "culls" from my loft, cause who after all would be interested in "dead" birds??
So, I agree with you Margaret. The word needs to go.........


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I think this has gone on long enough. One of you birds ruffling another birds feathers over this subject. This is the last time I will look at this Thread, and would ask you to do the same.

If we're going to let anything die here, let it be this Thread.


Thank You, Ace


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This is getting somewhat untidy, like a ball of string unravelling.

Let's call it a day.

John


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