# Black Mottled x Ash Yellow Mottled



## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

I have been trying to figure out how I've gotten all these color combinations. I think I've finally got it. I was told the female was a yellow mottled but the more I look at her, I believe she is an Ash Yellow Mottled. Some of the offspring I have gotten from the pair are:

1 Dun
1 Ash Red T-Pattern (Velvet)
1 Ash Yellow Mottled
2 Black Mottled

From what I've read, Ash Red is sex-lined when bred to a black male (in this case black mottled). Would this be true then? Would all birds that exhibit Ash Red to some degree be male and the black mottled be female?

Thank you for your help! I apologize if this doesn't belong but it's been so hard to not be able to wrap my head around the different reasons why the random colors are happening.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Ah ok....forget about the dilute for the moment. So yo uhave an ash yellow hen mated with a black (blue spread) cock, correct? In this case, yes all ash red based babies are cocks and all blue based babies (including dun, black, are hens).


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

The black male is mottled, is that considered "spread"? I'm still trying to grasp the spread and other terminology. Dun is a form of blue? I had no idea! Well that makes things much easier! Thank you!


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

black is spread blue mottle is the white markings dun is dilute of black one other thing cock can be one color and be split for another hen is what color you see never seen a ash yellow mottle west my believe she a almond cull color wise not enough break in color what makes me think this the black color most creams have a silver tint ash yellows are called cream yellow in wests if the birds you have are nwoetc banded you can find the breeder and no exactly what you have


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

loftkeeper said it but that is a long sentence, LOL! In any case, yes "black" is just blue + spread. spread basically takes the color of the tail bar and "spreads" it throughout the whole body. spread can be the pattern much like bar or check. The pattern is all inherited independently of the actual color.....pattern is not on the sex choromosomes so cocks and hens have two genes for pattern. A bird with spread will look spread (e.g. black) but it could be homozygous spread (carrying two genes for black) or it could have one gene for spread and one gene for bar for example. Such a bird would look black but still be able to produce blue bar offspring. Spread on ash red gives the whole bird an ashy gray color often called "lavender". Dun is a common name for a black (= blue + spread) with dilute added in. Dilute is sex linked (carried on the sex chromosomes). Dilute basically "dilutes" the color......so a black bird becomes a dun. A blue bird becomes "silver". A red with dilute bird becomes "yellow". A brown pigeon with dilute becomes "khaki". The black mottle you have is blue + spread (= black). The mottle is caused by another gene or gene. There are many other genes that cause all of the white pieds, mottles, white flights, and other patterns. They can be a little trickier to determine but no they are inherited differently from the the base color.


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## rodriguezpoultry (Aug 28, 2014)

Here is the hen in question. There is no "dirty" look to her feathers (I tend to think of dirty color when I see Almond) but each feather is crisp and clear of other colors.

Her yellow is not as intense as what it appears on the first photo. 



























She has gotten much more white in this last molt. Not sure if that is normal in pigeons but in chickens it's normal to get whiter with age in the Mottled variety.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Your hen appears to actually be a recessive yellow "mottle"or "splash", which could complicate matters even more in future generations, and, judging by her ash colored tail band, appears to be masking ash. So, yes, when mated to a non ash cock bird, she will produce all ash sons and non ash daughters. 

She is likely not "spread" because she expresses a tail band. "Spread" eliminates or significantly reduces the tail band appearance. 

This post could turn into a small book if I would elaborate on all the possible colors generated by this pair and their progeny being mated together. Sooo, I hope you want variety because your going to get it.


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