# What colour is this?



## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

View attachment 27106


What colour is this? There is a pinkish colour and its not the normal blue check.

The father is a blue check carrying recessive red, opal or indigo cannot decipher which and possibly pale as an offspring was lighter then normal recessive red. Mother grizzle. Grand parents mother's side were red grizzle and blue bar. Father's side unknown.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Is the mother red grizzle or blue?
It looks like a blue cheque, dilute or pale with indigo. Not opal. Maybe het rec red.


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

Mother is blue grizzle


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Why did you start a second thread.

This is what I posted there

I am thinking its a dilute blue check also known as silver check.

In saying all this the pic is very blurry with poor lighting so it could have other things in the mix. Do you have a pic of the tail bar as this will determine whether or not Indigo is in the mix.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

The pic looks like a brown check to me but it's probably a dilute blue since the father has produced dilute before.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

i have the same colour bird it came from two blues, the fellow i got her from called her dun.
i have her mom and dad hoping its in that family, great looking bird uh?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Not pale. It is dilute.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

ok can you please explain dilute , on this bird or one like it simply as possible thank you


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Dilute is a sex-linked gene that lightens the color. It turns blue to silver, ash-red to ash-yellow, brown to khaki, black to dun, recessive red to recessive yellow, bronze to sulphur, etc etc. In blues it lightens the ground color but the bars are still usually dark and almost black looking. Sometimes they look brownish but not to the extent actual browns do. The flights are turned very light as seen in the above bird. They can be a creamy, brownish, yellowish color.

Here is a picture from Ron Huntley's site that shows a dilute blue check (left) next to an intense blue check.









I think the picture in the first post is making the bird look more brown than it actually is, with the sun shining on it. Also it is a squeaker so the color will change a bit when it gets its adult feathers. A picture inside might help tell if it is dilute blue or brown. It could be either I suppose. They can look really similar. Do you have any pictures of mom and dad? And the siblings to this bird? I'd like to see that "lighter than normal" recessive red. And also what dad is as a bird can't carry indigo or dominant opal without it showing.


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

ok my little hen that was called a Dun, i will say its a dilute, she looks blue check but is slightly reddish, very very good looking.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Roger Siemens said:


> i have the same colour bird it came from two blues, the fellow i got her from called her dun.
> i have her mom and dad hoping its in that family, great looking bird uh?


Some people, and in some breeds they call this color dunn but that is improper. Dunn is spread dilute blue (dilute black) and will not have a tail bar or maybe a very slight indication of one. This bird in pic has an obvious tail bar and distinct checker pattern so is a dilute blue (silver), or pale dilute.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

A lot of homer people call ash-red bars with light ground color, "silver" or "silver red bars". So therefore the true silvers get called duns, which is at least partially correct. Better than calling them chocolates, which I have seen that label stuck on all kinds of "weird" colors. 

Pale usually doesn't effect blue very much. Sure, it makes the color lighter but the flights specifically aren't lightened very much. Just dulled out, from what I've seen. Pale is common in archangels, for example, and it mostly effects the bronze in those. Of course archangels are also loaded with darkening modifiers so that could have an effect....


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

There are three types of dilute.
Pale dilute (slightly darker than dilute), most noticeable with rec. red.
Dilute
Extreme dilute (lemon)


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## Roger Siemens (Nov 12, 2011)

i m going to post her and her mate on my wall her is silver, a mealy kind of sort of only lighter and this wonderful wild dilute check that has a tail band pictures will be tonite or in the morning


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> The pic looks like a brown check to me but it's probably a dilute blue since the father has produced dilute before.


tmaas, although not visible here, Do you agree all brown birds have false pearl, I have never seen one without


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Dilute is a sex-linked gene that lightens the color. It turns blue to silver, ash-red to ash-yellow, brown to khaki, black to dun, recessive red to recessive yellow, bronze to sulphur, etc etc. In blues it lightens the ground color but the bars are still usually dark and almost black looking. Sometimes they look brownish but not to the extent actual browns do. The flights are turned very light as seen in the above bird. They can be a creamy, brownish, yellowish color.
> 
> Here is a picture from Ron Huntley's site that shows a dilute blue check (left) next to an intense blue check.
> 
> ...


Becky, would Indigo make this bird look more brown maybe? It looks asthough the tail bar is intact here however so the bird is likely not Indigo but it has that tinge to it.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Something to keep in mind, dilute turns the rust color from indigo to a yellowish color.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yup, It looks as though this bird has a yellow tinge in its bars and especially its first row of checks.

A pic of the tailbar will ascertain if it is or not hence my interest in seeing one.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Well I have been looking at this bird for 3 days,. When I first saw it it look like brown birds that I have in my loft. I now believe that this bird is NOT brown.Have any of you looked at the birds beak, it is bone colored all my brown birds have dark beaks,. I feel that there are more then one modifier at work here, I feel that this bird is a blue based bird with reduced and dilute modifiers at work here, and there may be other modifiers in the mix.I also feel that this bird is a hen. In any event it is very intresting and thought-provoking thread. * GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree with the blue dilute but see no indicators of reduced.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

After studying this bird again I concluded that it is indeed brown because the tip of its upper mandible has a dark spot on it which is typical of brown, without smokey, on young birds. Dilutes no longer show a spot at the age this bird is.

I see no sign of indigo nor reduced on this bird. The latter "Huntley" pic of a dilute blue may be showing a little opal but no sign of indigo on it either.

Another pic of this bird on a cloudy day may help.


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Dilute is a sex-linked gene that lightens the color. It turns blue to silver, ash-red to ash-yellow, brown to khaki, black to dun, recessive red to recessive yellow, bronze to sulphur, etc etc. In blues it lightens the ground color but the bars are still usually dark and almost black looking. Sometimes they look brownish but not to the extent actual browns do. The flights are turned very light as seen in the above bird. They can be a creamy, brownish, yellowish color.
> 
> Here is a picture from Ron Huntley's site that shows a dilute blue check (left) next to an intense blue check.
> 
> ...



I will take the pics and send them. The lighter recessive red has flown away, but i have a brother from the father i can show. 

Can you also please comment on my other thread http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f41/is-it-icy-or-simple-red-grizzle-67745.html

I also saw a pic of a pigeon like tha one in bars called strawberry.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Can't see reduced, Infact, I think reduced can be ruled out, and most likely Indigo aswell.
Still want to see the tail and wings spread. Tmass - you have not answered me lol, in your experience do brown birds all have false pearl eye.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Sorry Evan, yes, all the browns that I've seen have false pearl eyes.


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## Coocooloft (Apr 20, 2012)

It's look like its very early to say the color it looks like it has not molt yet


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok, so its not opal, indigo, reduced, or brown.
It looks like a silver check which is what most people think. Young silvers often look brown.
Could it be het recessive red or het kite or some other bronze?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

thepigeonkey said:


> Ok, so its not opal, indigo, reduced, or brown.
> It looks like a silver check which is what most people think. Young silvers often look brown.
> Could it be het recessive red or het kite or some other bronze?


I'm sticking to brown rather than silver and am not seeing any indication of bronzing on the bird being discussed. (The latter Huntley example has bronzing).


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

This is the bird inside and also the wing and tail.


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

These are the father (blue check) the Mother (grizzle) and the brother (from father side - pied and bronze bars)


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## Roller lover (Dec 27, 2012)

Its turning more to being a dilute blue check.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

It could be a silver cheque like you say or a brown like tmass says, you'll know by the eyes. Brown have false pearl eyes.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Roller lover said:


> Its turning more to being a dilute blue check.


A close up of the eye will most likely ascertain which of the two is going on here.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

The toenails of the bird also look brown. The toenails of silvers are usually more horn colored.


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