# How do you feel about pigeon-theft?



## snake08 (Jan 21, 2008)

Pigeon fanciers,

I am conducting a persuasive speech within the coming weeks and need your input. It is not going to be national or anything, but rather a speech for my COMM 1101 course and need opinions to support it the best that I can. 


*SORRY THERE IS A CHANGE IN QUESTION.....IGNORE THE THREAD QUESTION...*

If I was to argue in making the hobby of PIGEON KEEPING legal, what are some inputs and ideas that you can offer to support that argument? 

Thank you. 

Na


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi snake,

It is not really very clear what your question is.

If you are asking us how we feel about crime, because that is exactly what stealing is about, the answer I should think is self-evident and obvious. Thieves should be hung up by their thumbs.

If you are asking us about the practice of cutting the band off a registered pigeon and trying to keep it, same answer. The pigeon usually goes home anyway so it is a waste of time.

Anyway, I assume you probably own some property, perhaps a car or some valuable clothing yourself. How do you feel about someone stealing that? (Are you a real college student or just a joker?)


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Read the blogs on David Clausing.com even the FBI got in on it. If your birds are worth $10 who cares, I have several thousand $ in my birds, the thief better hope the cops find them befor i do.
Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

The cops will not waste their time on car theft let alone stolen pigeons. At least that's the case around here. Someone had broken into my car and took my stereo system, I filed a report with the police and asked the cop to be honest with me about what is going to happen with the investigation of my stolen property and guess what he said......I quote "sir to be honest there are a lot more serious issues going around here and finding a stolen stereo system is not one of them" so I said thanks for being honest and walked away. If I continued to follow up on my case then maybe they would have done more but I seriously doubt that they would waste their time because no one was shot or killed. I was very upset that whole day thinking that I pay taxes to support a crapy law enforcement system like we have. If I shot the guy who stole my stereo system then I would be the one going to jail! They would be on me like white on rice! Go figure....lol.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

How do I feel about pigeon theft?...ummm.....it's bad.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I am APPALED! I do not think we should allow any pigeons to STEAL! it would only hurt our efforts to improve their image!..... OH, You mean someone stealing your birds! SORRY. Dave...


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Dave - you are too much bro!Lol....I want whatever you had today!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

LOL! two Milwaukee's best, And waking up at 5:am this morning, and being on here till, about 1:30 am. last night, try it it works for me, NOT, Dave, P.S. I am SO tired!


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

Damn! They must be onto me, I've been training my pigeons to pull off a bank heist just like the Doberman Gang!! LOL!! Just kidding, Really, I swear...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I have been vandalized many times and cops wont do anything, but just gather info and becomes statistics. They always say they don't have resources/money to do something. They probably think that someone stealing your pigeons is not a big deal. Obviously stealing is stealing--a crime, but it wont be on their higher list of agenda of solving it. Shoot someone who is stealing your pigeons or you get shot because of some thief and you will end with lots of cops at your place. That will be higher priority to them. It is a matter of life and death. It is all in perspective and resources.


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I feel the thieves deserve a shot to the leg. Not kidding. $10 bird or $10,000 bird.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

Pigeon theft... Hang'em up by their thumbs. I like that. I live in the rural area of our county and have some really nosy neighbors, so any cars around here get noticed and someone has the plate number written down.
Would I shoot someone stealing my pigeons? No, but I might fire a round or two to get their attention. Cattle rustling is still big here in Missouri, so shots fired at a farm usually gets the sheriff out here pretty quick. Neighbor had some cattle loaded up by the midnight thieves and we blocked the gate so they could not get out of the field. One guy tried going through the fence and ditch along side the road and got his truck stuck.
I do believe I would try to detain the thief until the law enforcement folks arrived. It is a pretty tricky situation and hard to say what you would really do in a situation like that.
I take a very dim look at theft. I figure if I have something you need (As opposed to want) you just have to ask. You steal from me and I will push it as far as the court system will allow me to.
Just my two-cents worth. Any other questions, please feel free to send me a message.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Pigeon-Theft? No i don't like the sound of it and I agree on what Kimberly say, no matter if your bird worth $10 or more than a grand, stealing is a crime and shud not be ignored by the law enforcement...Once an intruder sense their crime is being ignored by the authorities they'll keep on doing it...


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

Kimberly_CA said:


> I feel the thieves deserve a shot to the leg. Not kidding. $10 bird or $10,000 bird.


To the leg or...elsewhere! Theft of dogs, cats, birds....and what then happens to these innocent animals??? Makes my blood boil and my skin crawl! I also understand that there are _HUGE_ issues that law enforcement must deal with...and their resources are stretched beyond thin. It's not a good situation for any one or thing ... except, maybe, the thieves.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

snake08 said:


> Pigeon fanciers,
> 
> I am conducting a persuasive speech within the coming weeks and need your input. It is not going to be national or anything, but rather a speech for my COMM 1101 course and need opinions to support it the best that I can.
> 
> ...


This actually sounds like a very odd question. 

I mean for research you could ask anyone who has had something of value taken from them, how they "feel" about it. Why the subject pigeon-theft ? I mean for the most part, the theft of anything, is generally given low priorty by police departments, other then filing a report. There are too many armed robberies, rapes, murder's and other such crimes of violence to contend with. On any given night in good ole York, Pa population 70,000 or so...there are only about 10 cops on the street at any one time, and they are normally backed up with a dozen different calls at anyone time, and sometimes more. What are they expected to do, assign a couple of detectives to track down your stolen goods ?

I mean of all the subjects you could talk about, why the subject of pigeon-theft ? Unless your research is not really for making a speech at school, but for some other purpose ? ........

If it is for school, just look up kidnapping, and insert the word pigeon. If you stole one of my birds, it would be nearly like stealing a family member. And if I caught you in the act, I would surely go to jail, because they would be taking you off in a body bag. The 8' tall fence, and the attack dog signs, should already give you an indication that I am serious, so if a person is that brain dead, to not know that I am serious, then they must be really dangerous, and I will take steps to protect myself.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Warren,

You can use this for protection instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3gcKxWObbg&feature=channel
That thing will bag the intruder naturally.


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## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

OK that wasn't funny LOL!! That scared the beejeezus out of me, I jumped at the end of that


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

LOL! That is cool Rod, but if a person is the type to steal pigeons, and knew what most snakes sell for, they would steal the snake, THAN the pigeons


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Wow. That video scared me!!! Yikes!


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## snake08 (Jan 21, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> Hi snake,
> 
> It is not really very clear what your question is.
> 
> ...



Grimaldy, yes I am a college student......at first I thought about arguing the whole idea that a pigeon fancier should have, to some extent, the right to capture BOP and release them somewhere else. .....however, as I talked about it to other fanciers..they argued that one can't really just take a bird and throw it somewhere and not think that it won't find its way back.....also in that if that is the easiest way for them to obtain their food, then of course they are going to continue to attack pigeons....

So then I thought about pigeon-theft....cause many of many club members' loft have been broken into in the past month and it's hard to start all over again......but then again, we got to the thought that cops don't do much about it because it is right, there is more important things out there than trying to find out the thieves who stole the pigeons....plus, it's the owners fault for not securing his loft better......so i scratched that idea...

and now I am to the idea of legalizing PIGEON KEEPING.......I know, there are permit one can just get to make them legal...not exactly...permits are what allows a person to hold the pigeons in a loft.....it still doesn't mean that pigeons are legal to have......unlike chickens, or pheasants, or pigs, or cows, they don't make extremely loud noises; they don't spoil the surroundings around them (as long as the owner maintains it well); and they don't stink. 
So now I am off to this topic instead.....



Sorry for the misunderstanding of my first question....yes, it was a weird worded question....

But if there are opinions about the whole pigeon-keeping and making it legal, please feel free to give your input.
And if you would like to contribute ideas to support the legalization of pigeon keeping, please do so.

Again, this is just for a class assignment. I just need ideas to base my argument upon. 

Thank you. 

Snake


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*pro/con- pigeon,lots of why,s*



snake08 said:


> Pigeon fanciers,
> 
> I am conducting a persuasive speech within the coming weeks and need your input. It is not going to be national or anything, but rather a speech for my COMM 1101 course and need opinions to support it the best that I can.
> 
> ...


one of the most highly decorated animals in ww2 was a pigeon,shot in the line of duty and still carried out his mission,..there is a lot of support for birds in general,but the bad things (just like any news report) is generally always first especially when paranoia strike the mental idiots which hope to make a buck by exterminating as many as possible/it can be said both ways,..i do not dare tell my mom i am sick with even a cold because it is always a birds fault,.go figure,..you cannot change peoples minds..either they like birds or they do-not,..i was not as aware of animals plight when i was younger,how in the world they survive the elements is a big credit to their existance,.the fact that we all have not woke up to their beauty is beyond me,..the odds are definately against them,,they must die in horrific numbers world wide,..so why not try to understand them and help them as we all are in the same ecoshere,.i donot eat what i raise,some people ask,why not,.i say-why!!,..sincerely james waller [email protected]


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Fbirdie82 said:


> I swear there is a "right to pigeons" law. Can someone look this up???


Are you serious? I NEED to see that if you are. I am currently battling my city for a loft permit. I've gotten pigeons legal, but now I just need to get a special animal permit for the loft. If you could give me more info on this it would help me tremendously.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

Once you get your AU membership they might be able to help you with the legal battle you are having with your city
check this link out
http://www.pigeon.org/take-a-stand.htm


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

The AU has already helped me.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

cool
im curious as to what they did
did they call your city or did they just get you information?


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I would think only some cities would require a permit? None needed here, but in Chicago, unless they reversed it, you can not keep them at all.Funny thing about Chicago, is they banned pigeons, but chickens are not zoned out, "sort of" Dave


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

hi snake,

The problem facing you is that you are still not clear about the question, but let me see if this helps.

Pigeons are property in the eyes of the law, just like a dog or a cat. If it is wild, then the owner is the person who possesses it. Keep pigeons in a loft, outhouse, bathroom, wherever, it is your property. Although there is no law allowing pigeons, or anything else for that matter, (our legal system can only forbid conduct, it does not "allow" conduct) municipalities can only regulate the right to own them by exclusion. That is if they become a health or noise nuisance to the neighborhood, the municipality can step in and tell you you can not keep them, not because they are pigeons but because they cause a problem for the people in the municipality. Chicago, for instance has no laws against feeding pigeons (a purported nuisance) but they do have a zoning law which forbids pigeon lofts in residential neighborhoods. The result is that pigeon owners keep their lofts in area of the city which are zoned for commercial or industrial use. Some municipalities try to keep track of who is breeding what by requiring a permit, but that is because people breed parrots, and other exotics, much like "puppy mills" where the birds are kept in unhealthy and unsanitary conditions.

The policeman is a paid municipal employee whose job it is to enforce the laws. When called to investigate a crime, he must determine what sort of crime it might be in terns of the possible penalties. Felony gets a year or more in prison, misdemeanor less than a year at most, usually just a fine, and a municipal offense, just a fine. Property theft is measured according to the value of the property stolen. A prize winning pigeon worth $10,000 will definitely get their attention, but if that is not made clear to them they will think of the birds hanging around the streets, i.e.no value. Second, unless you have seen someone breaking in, or you know who they are, how is the policeman to know if that pigeon in the neighbor's loft is your bird?

So I hope this helps somewhat,
Best


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

StoN3d said:


> cool
> im curious as to what they did
> did they call your city or did they just get you information?


They gave me a big packet of information.


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## snake08 (Jan 21, 2008)

Grimaldy said:


> hi snake,
> 
> The problem facing you is that you are still not clear about the question, but let me see if this helps.
> 
> ...



Grimaldy,

Thank you. Your inputs and words are meaningful and helpful. Thanks again.


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## Gimpel (Jan 25, 2011)

My Local Club has had pigeons "disappear" at shows.  

As far as legally keeping pigeons, different cities and counties have different codes. Important fact to remember: pigeons are not poultry therefore they can not be considered live stock. Pigeons are pet birds. 

The local pigeon club where I lived has helped people keep their birds. A good club can fill a town meeting hall with people, who will protest any proposed bans on pigeon keeping as well as speak on behalf of the person in question.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Gimpel said:


> My Local Club has had pigeons "disappear" at shows.
> 
> As far as legally keeping pigeons, different cities and counties have different codes. Important fact to remember: pigeons are not poultry therefore they can not be considered live stock. Pigeons are pet birds.
> 
> *The local pigeon club where I lived has helped people keep their birds. A good club can fill a town meeting hall with people, who will protest any proposed bans on pigeon keeping as well as speak on behalf of the person in question.*


**This thread is 2 years old, BUT this is good to know, whereas we have members that are having problems in their towns.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> The cops will not waste their time on car theft let alone stolen pigeons. At least that's the case around here. Someone had broken into my car and took my stereo system, I filed a report with the police and asked the cop to be honest with me about what is going to happen with the investigation of my stolen property and guess what he said......I quote "sir to be honest there are a lot more serious issues going around here and finding a stolen stereo system is not one of them" so I said thanks for being honest and walked away. If I continued to follow up on my case then maybe they would have done more but I seriously doubt that they would waste their time because no one was shot or killed. I was very upset that whole day thinking that I pay taxes to support a crapy law enforcement system like we have. *If I shot the guy who stole my stereo system then I would be the one going to jail! They would be on me like white on rice!* Go figure....lol.


this is funny


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

its not money or the bird its the pernciple for some onet to come and steal somethings is disrespactful so like ppl siad hope the cop finds him befor i do and im not home when he doing it lol


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

If people ask "who wants to keep those dirty animals" ?? or people can get sick from those pigeons !!...or...what good are they !!....

JUST SAY THE "QUEEN OF ENGLAND" HAS HAD PIGEONS ALL HER LIFE....She owns them,and they are racing pigeons,which are just one kind of as many as 300 different kinds of pigeons....Walt Disney...Roy Rogers...etc etc etc allways loved pigeons and owned them....They make great pets,and they are loyal to their owners...Alamo


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