# Tipplers vs High Flyers



## Ananth_Tvli

What are the differences between Tipplers and High Flyers?

There are a few threads in this forum and in other forums and websites but each one of them seem to have a different ending. Some of them conclude that they are both one and the same - different terms but same breed. Nothing is conclusive. I've been interacting and debating this with few fanciers (some of them are members of this forum) but now I am so confused that I thought it would be best to start the debate all over again with wider participation. 

Request the members to post your views and lets try to have a firm outcome this time.


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## LUCKYT

Tipplers Fly high, but the best competitive Strains MUST stay in sight, meaning the come lower every so often.LONG Flying Times is the desired trait.
There are many types of high Flyers.
They are Bred to go WAY up!
At one Time i had a Flock of what I call the Old style Budapest High Flyers .
They looked like the current type but would go WAY up!
You needed Binoculars to see them sometimes.
There are so many Breeds using that term you just have to do reseach on each one.


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## Ananth_Tvli

From what LUCKYT has pointed out :-

Tipplers - fly long durations and be in sight 
(how did this breed associate with the term 'Tipple', which literally means 'To drink (intoxicating liquor), especially repeatedly, and in small quantities'. Can it be equated like this??
To drink intoxicating liquor - to leave us intoxicated by watching them fly 
especially repeatedly - fly long durations 
and in small quantities - fly at low heights so that they are in sight )

High Flyers - fly high up (and out of sight,need binoculars to spot them)
Easier to associate their characteristic and the name of the breed but no mention of flying duration by LUCKYT.


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## LUCKYT

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## LUCKYT

The "Tippler" comes from the fact that they were developed from the same Stock as Rollers, and they would partial Roll... I.E. "Tipple" at least until it was Bred out of them. (Do an on Line search)


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## Ananth_Tvli

Thats very sensible. May be as time went by the lost the characteristic of 'tippling' or 'rolling' and developed on endurance. 

Wikipedia says or thinks that Tipplers are results of cross-breeding homers with cumulets, in England. Now 'Cumulets' is a new term but believed to have the ability to roll and which was lost in course of time. Pure or original Tipplers must then have the homing instinct even if not to that extent of pure homers, at least a good part of it.


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## Ranu Krishna

*high fliers vs tiplers*

till now I thought that tippler and high flier are same but here so many persons are there like me ..they may have had crossed breed of these. so they will fly how to identify these two..


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## aussie highflyer

I have had both Tipplers and Highflyers. Yes both will fly for long periods but Tipplers fly for up to 20 hours. This is the world record! (This is only possible in those countries, mostly northern hemisphere countries, where during the summer the nights are very short and the days long. 
Tipplers have smaller bodies and heads and you can clearly see they came from tumblers. Small body and heads.
They can fly high but usually not as high as the high flyers. They stay as a kit better than highflyers too.

Highflyers are usually much bigger birds - they have long wings and tails, which fan out when landing. The long wings and tail enable to hover and when coming down to land, just float down and land gently - (unlike Dewlaps!). Highflyers can go out of sight and can be up there for well over an hour.


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## Jass SamOplay

People use words Tippler,Tiplets and Highflyers interchangebly for pigeons which fly high. But they are different sub-breeds.

A layman wouldn't differentiate and call them the same but a fancier knows the differences.
Only ENGLISH TIPPLERS deserve to be called tipplers in true sense cuz tippler is a highflying pigeon who flies high and has limited homing ability too. Tippler is an edurance bird and can fly for 15-22 hours in the skies. It can come back home from 80-100 kms. Tipplers fly both high and low in the skies. They would come down then go high up again. Pure tipplers come mostly in blue bar,blue grizzle,chequer and same sort of shades.
Tiplet is a word which is used for highflyers/tipplers in NewYork city locally.

HighFlyers are the birds which were derived from tipplers and/or cumulet and some other pigeons to suit the local/regional needs. A high flyer is a pigeon that flies high and higher at a particular level.
HighFlyers don't go up and down in the skies like tipplers do. They fly at a certain level. Many countries have derived their own High flying breeds like Iranian highflyers,Pakistani,Punjabi,Indian common HFs,Budapest,Serbian HFs etc etc etc.
HighFlyers don't have homing ability like tipplers. They can come back only from 4-8 kms. Unlike homers they can be resettled to a new loft easily.

The major difference is in the way Tipplers and Highflyers are competed. You can't take a tipper away from your home to compete it. You will have to fly your tippler on your rooftop and record its flying time. On the contrary,Highflyers are taken away from their homes at the site selected prior to competition. All participants will take their highflyers to the spot where the competition is scheduled. All will have their birds trained to sit on their own unique Chatri/elevated landing board. In competitions highflyers are released and the bird MUST STAY AROUND the spot where its released. If it runs away its disqualified(local rules differ). The competing highflyer must fly around the competition site all day and land on the site itself. Best quality birds land only on their unique chatri.


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## Ananth_Tvli

Ranu Krishna said:


> till now I thought that tippler and high flier are same but here so many persons are there like me ..they may have had crossed breed of these. so they will fly how to identify these two..


Welcome on board Ranu Krishna. Ranu is a good friend and a great enthusiast. His passion is HFs (or tipplers?) but also raises homers and few pairs of fancies (runt, king, modena, beauty homer, pouter etc)


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## Ananth_Tvli

aussie highflyer said:


> I have had both Tipplers and Highflyers. Yes both will fly for long periods but Tipplers fly for up to 20 hours. This is the world record!.


Aussie highflyer has raised both the breeds - this proves that they are two different breeds. Tipplers fly long durations (longer than HFs), are smaller than HFs and cannot reach great heights like a HF. We have 3 points to differentiate between the two breeds.


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## Ananth_Tvli

From Jass's post we have two more differences.

Tipplers have a better homing instinct but HFs lack it.
Tipplers fly at different heights but HFs don't change their altitude often.

The birds that we have in our area seem to fall under both categories, probably they are sub-breeds which are neither pure Tipplers nor pure HFs.


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## aussie highflyer

I posted this on another thread but thought if you had not seen it it might be of interest. Just goes to show the length that some people will go to to get an 'edge'. 
Just thought I would add to the 'off the point discussion'. I lived next door to a guy who had a very successful team of racing pigeons in Western Australia. He would let them out early in the morning and late at night for their daily flights. They would fly for an hour or so and only and often be flying far from the loft and even go quite high.
My brother and I had English Tipplers and Sri Lankan Highflyers. The pigeon Racer was fascinated by how high up our birds flew as well as how many hours they were up for. The Racing Pigeon fanciers had acute problems with Falcons in West Australia and would often have just a few left each season and lost many many top birds to the Falcons so he decided on buying a pair of Tipplers from us and bred them to Racing Pigeons to get the Racers to go higher. The progeny was for the next season and when he started racing them he would get comments from other enthusiasts of how slight a few of his birds when they were caged and rung up for a race. I am not sure if they succeeded , pretty sure they lacked the speed BUT he did try them to see if they would climb out of harms way and fly till late at night in the longer races. He was always looking for ways to win and he had to try this t see if it would work. So, it can be done but you are unlikely to get a race winner!!


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## Ananth_Tvli

Aussie highflyer's neighbor would have some interesting points to add to the 'off point discussion'. 

Jass, the birds that you have - would you call them Tipplers or Hfs? And why?

Same Qs to Ranu & Syed?


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## hamlet

Hello. From what i heard, only English bred birds ( i don't know how many styles there are) should be called tipplers now days. They were bred to fit their club rules. Some of those are highflyers and some are not. They are also different is size. They were bred to respond to feed which was available cheaply during those years.  
The one thing that one might see in the air that is different between todays tippler and lets say the iranian highflying tumbler is that the tippler goes away from the loft like the homers do on their loft flying practices. I do not know the competition rules for each highflyer type pigeon so there must be alot of similarities or differences between the word tipplers and highflyers. For example: in India there are birds that fly in very hot weather and they are called low flyers and they are used in time( endurance) flying competitions. They may also be a world record holding birds. Some have tried the English tippler in hot weather and have discovered that the tipplers do not fly for long.
So it looks like 2 more differences in what you are looking for: raking(ranging)(rumbling), and weather hardiness. 
Maybe one more difference: the English tippler flies faster than the Iranian High flying tumbler, but it rides its wings in a v shape alot. I do not know what this is called. That may disquallify the IHFT from today's club's rules: but i am not in Iran and do not know all the rules there or anywhere else. 
I hope this helped.


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## aussie highflyer

Thanks for the great reply Hamlet. One point with respect to the "English Tipplers not being able to fly for long in the heat". My brother and I lived in Western Australia which is the hottest state in Australia. In WA the temperatures in summer frequently get to 40C+ and mostly in summer the temp remains in the mid to high 30'sC. Remember 37.8C is 100DegF. It was however a very 'dry' heat.
We flew out birds in summer in the mornings and the temperatures would sometimes be in the low 30's and the birds would climb high where the air was cooler. They would remain up for some time and landed without looking stressed.


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## Ananth_Tvli

Quite evident now that these are two different breeds with many similarities and little differences.

From what Hamlet says:
Tipplers don't perform well under hot climate or at least not as well as HFs.
Tipplers fly faster than HFs.
Tipplers have a better homing instinct.

The birds that we have in India fit more under HF category and there seem to be different breeds of HFs with slightly different characteristics. It is sad that we don't have members from Kerala, India where HFs (many refer to them as Tipplers) are a major hobby/sport compared to racing and homers.

I will try to get more members from Kerala to enroll here.


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## Jass SamOplay

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Aussie highflyer's neighbor would have some interesting points to add to the 'off point discussion'.
> 
> Jass, the birds that you have - would you call them Tipplers or Hfs? And why?
> 
> Same Qs to Ranu & Syed?


I have Malwaii HFs (most),which are bred mainly keeping in mind competition point of view.
They fly high around home but are required to fly low in the competitions


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## Ananth_Tvli

Pl post few pics of your birds and pl elaborate on the characteristics of a Malawii HF like what distinguishes this breed from other HFs...


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## Ananth_Tvli

What breed are these birds?


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## aussie highflyer

Great pics and beautiful birds in the pics and interesting as a study of the differences even among HighFlyers. The birds in the pics are lovely and look more 'Donek' Higlflyer type. Though Doneks have a crest usually.
Again the difference between and Tipplers are quite significant.
Those in the pics below have bigger/rounded heads and longer beaks to the Tipplers.
From what I remember of some of the Highflyers we had in Sri Lanka they were smaller bodied and smaller heads, tumbler like.
The Budapest Tipplers, that a friend of mine has, is a smaller bird which is 'tight' feathered and white eyes and with small - tumbler like - 'feminine' head.


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## Ananth_Tvli

I will wait for some more comments, have some interesting information on these birds to share.


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## aussie highflyer

Is the intrigue necessary? How about just posting. Or perhaps..."I have much more to say but I will wait until the wind changes direction...!"


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## Ananth_Tvli

Lol.... these are recognised as Tipplers here in South India. The bird which is looking to the right holds the world record for the longest duration on air at 23:29 hours and the other bird flew 22:39 hours. Both are/were owned by a person in Coimbatore, Tamilnadu, India. People don't call them HFs but.


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## aussie highflyer

WOW ANATH that is incredible and worth the wait for the explanation. I am happy to stand corrected. As I said..... beautiful birds!!
Tipplers eh!! Are they English Tipplers? 
WHAT A RECORD!! They must be 'smaller' than they appear in the photos. Would be interesting to read about the breeding and bloodlines in these birds.


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## Jass SamOplay

Hi Ananth,
Beautiful birds indeed!
The birds in pics resemble Madrasi HFs. Not pure but crosses between madrasi and (maybe) common Indian HF,appear to me.


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## Ananth_Tvli

But can the HFs fly so long?
And people call them Tipplers here. English Tipplers, they say, are a totally different breed.

Aussie HF - I will share the info related to bloodline and breeding as and when I get to know them. As of now I am too equally curious as you are.


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## Jass SamOplay

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Pl post few pics of your birds and pl elaborate on the characteristics of a Malawii HF like what distinguishes this breed from other HFs...


Malwaii HFs are bit smaller in size than Giribaz HFs commonly found here in North India. But they have longer feet fingers than other highflying breeds comparative to their size. Their built is lean and sturdy.
Pure breds are very hard to resettle to a new loft. They are made that way to not to mix with any other pigeons when let free in competitions. They fly in low skies at home but when put in competitions they go high in the skies but are required to stay in the skies where they're released until the competition wraps up. They know only to fly and fly and don't drop even when droppers/cheekos are shown,this is their weak yet desirable point.


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## aussie highflyer

Beautiful pics Jass. What amazing birds! Sadly I am certain that there are absolutely NO Malwaii HF's in Australia. Sad as I would love to have some. I might have to settle for Serbian, Doneks, Iranian HF's or Budapest or English Tipplers.


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## Ananth_Tvli

The birds that I have are much smaller in size compared to these pics. They seem to have a bigger wing span. I will post few pics later today.


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## Jass SamOplay

Thanks aussie flyer. Glad you liked them!
Wow!you have so many varieties of them highflyers with you.


Hey Ananth! Your welcome with your pics


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## syed

Ananth - eagerly waiting to see the snaps of ur new Loft & Birds..


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## Gayathri83

What is this breed ?
I cant identify please help me .
https://instagram.com/p/6APvTfByem/


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## usama m taz

Jass SamOplay said:


> Malwaii HFs are bit smaller in size than Giribaz HFs commonly found here in North India. But they have longer feet fingers than other highflying breeds comparative to their size. Their built is lean and sturdy.
> Pure breds are very hard to resettle to a new loft. They are made that way to not to mix with any other pigeons when let free in competitions. They fly in low skies at home but when put in competitions they go high in the skies but are required to stay in the skies where they're released until the competition wraps up. They know only to fly and fly and don't drop even when droppers/cheekos are shown,this is their weak yet desirable point.




Breeds as such are considered low flyers, tho they'd go high in altitude but cant be considered a high flyer. Like homers,they are capable of going very high but arent actually high flyers. We have a breed in Pakistan called 'patti' valey who r considered low flyers. The time duration of flying in race can exceed 11 hours but in temperature up to 50 degreesC, thats very hot. Which means they can obviously fly more then 20 hours in cool temperature and they have very good homing intelligence and fly high and low but must be in sight during race like of the tipplers . Temperature is a very important info ppl dont mention around the world which i have a big prblm with. They'd tell the results of there birds but not the temperature they were flown in. Now the tipplers they r very much like the Patti valey from Pakistan.Like they can fly for long hours,they both have great homing instinct they go high and low, they have very much of same eyes considering all the different coloured eyes and amazingly all the rules for a Tippler race is exactly same as the race of Pakistani Patti valey race.

So my point here is tipplers r not high flyers bcause high flyers can go and stay so high in altitude that they cant be seen. Still if u find them flying in the sky and jus as u look smwhere else for a second and look back up yu wont find em easily. Now thats a high flyer. In Pakistan they can fly more then 13 hours in temperature reaching up to 50 degrees C. So u can imagine how long they can do in cool weather.


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## usama m taz

*Pakistani high flyer.*



Gayathri83 said:


> What is this breed ?
> I cant identify please help me .
> https://instagram.com/p/6APvTfByem/



This is a Pakistani hf breed name Qasoori, named after the city of Pakistan, creator of this breed was from Qasoor.


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## usama m taz

Jass SamOplay said:


> Malwaii HFs are bit smaller in size than Giribaz HFs commonly found here in North India. But they have longer feet fingers than other highflying breeds comparative to their size. Their built is lean and sturdy.
> Pure breds are very hard to resettle to a new loft. They are made that way to not to mix with any other pigeons when let free in competitions. They fly in low skies at home but when put in competitions they go high in the skies but are required to stay in the skies where they're released until the competition wraps up. They know only to fly and fly and don't drop even when droppers/cheekos are shown,this is their weak yet desirable point.



malvaye are not actually high flyers.


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