# "Welcome Back . . ."



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

. . .Cynthia (cyro51).  

It was *wonderful* to see your name on the board when I logged on this morning.   

I hope your recovery continues without incident.  

Cindy


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Yes Cynthia, you were very missed.

Wishing you a speedy and full recovery,

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, we have missed you and hope you're feeling much better.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Glad You Are Back! 

Please Take Care Of Yourself!*


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Welcome back, Cynthia! We missed you! I hope you are feeling better.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is great to be back. Thanks to all of you that sent me messages of support while I was in hospital. John printed them out and brought them to me and I felt very comforted to be surrounded by such positive thoughts from friends that knew exactly how the threat of being expected to part with my pigeons affected me.

And now for the serious bit...I didn't realise that this condition could be life threatening if allowed to progress unchecked! By the time I was hospitalised my oxygen levels had fallen below 70% and I wasn't allowed to remove the mask even long enough to shove a spoonful of salad into my mouth. The doctor also said that my pulse was so weak that they couldn't take the blood they needed from my wrist...very frightening.

I will have to wait another 6 weeks for the results of the biospy which will establish was caused the pmneumonitis, but I am pretty sure that it is pigeon dander. But apparently even a person with a single budgie can develop the chronic form of the disease!

I was stupid, I thought that as I had never had an allergic reaction in my life I never would. I realise now that I should have made every effort possible to prevent myself from becoming sensitised to pigeon protein: sleeping in a room full of pigeon dander for several years was the real cause, but it would have been wise to wear a mask, overall and head cover when working in the aviary. The hat and overall are to prevent dander being carried into the house. Dander in hair can actually have a very bad effect on the loft cleaner's partner, who will inhale it in bed at night.

Pidgie and Birdmom, you are already on the path that Treesa nad I have been down. Please take your symptoms seriously and get a good mask.

Now for the symptoms: It started with a persistent dry cough in June, which I put down to the fact that I had been prescribed ACE inhibitors for my high blood pressure. I had severe headaches (attributed to stress and high blood pressure) and one episode of breathlessness like the one Pidgie described, which forced me to walk out of the office for half an hour. Then I developed the "smoker's cough" Cathy described, although I had given up smoking in 1994. I also had that sensitivity of the chest that Pidgie described, it makes taking a deep breath uncomfortable and triggers the cough. A very peculiar sensation that I had never experienced before. I also often found myself gasping for breath.

THe doctor sent me for X-rays which showed I was fine, no trace of tumour or infection. He also noted there was no congestion in my lungs and no wheeze. He made me blow into a tube and said my flow was fine...the gasping was put down to hyperventilation, the cough to stress.

My lips began to turn blue, I lost about 16 pounds in weight, I became less and less able to do any physical work and I noticed that when I breathed inward there was a crackling sound. That was when John took me to the hospital, but when I visited my own doctor and mentioned the pigeons he just took blood samples for testing . When the results came back they wrote to me instructing me to make a "non-urgent" appointment...John called him out to the house instead because I had become incoherent at times and he arranged for an ambulance to take me to hospital. I really don't know what would have happened if John hadn't decided to take a holiday because he felt I was too ill to be alone!

So, the moral is that we must all be sensible and avoid breathing in pigeon proteins, that way we will protect both ourselves and our beloved pigeons!

Cynthia


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## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

welcome back Cynthia

sorry you've been poorly recently 

If I had a pet bird I would make sure it doesn't live in the same house, as it seems there's risks of developing pigeon lung from it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Welcome Back Cynthia !

We have all missed you.

I'm praying you will have a complete recovery and find yourself as good as new!


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cynthia,

Indeed, welcome back!

Thanks so much for the detailed description of what happened to you. I agree, I would hate to think what may have happened if John was not there for you.

Well, this certainly has made me want to get the HEPA filters running in our house again. Our son did have some reactions to bird dander, so we purchased two good quality HEPA filter units and they really helped, as well as keeping his room a bird free zone. He has been out on his own for a few years now and we stopped running the filters, except when we know he is going to visit, especially around the holiday times. With our 6 pet birds and the rescues, the air in our house really can at times be quite particle ladened.

So it's off today to get replacement filters for the HEPA units and get them running full time again. Thanks for the reminder to all of us that we must be more aware of our health.

All the best,

Ron


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,
Reading your symptoms makes me wonder if my year long illness (two years ago this month) might have been a combination of Asthma *and* the beginning of the pigeon lung illness.  

Among other things, I never realized how precious being able to take a deep breath was, *or* how much I took it for granted, until the ability to take that deep breath is gone.  
I never, ever want to relive that year. 

I *do* wear a mask now when cleaning the aviary.  

Cindy


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Cynthia,

It is so nice to have you back on the forum? How long were you in the hospital, and what procedures were taken for your wellness while you were there besides the oxygen.

Feather


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Welcome back, Cynthia.
We missed you a lot.
Thank you for the detailed explanation of your symptoms. Gives us somthing to think about and take some precautions.
I certainly will get some new filters as soon as financially possible. We live here with birds in the apartment, so dust and dander is all over the place due the air conditioner. I do my best to dust and vacuum daily, but it is not enough.
The other day Lee was diagnosed with pneumonia and is on antibiotics now. In the back on my mind I am afraid it might be from the birds.

Well, glad you are home and feeling better. Hope you recover completely.

Reti


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Good to see you back Cynthia, time now to take care of yourself and make a speedy recovery. 

Indeed, you have made a timely reminder to all those of us who think "It will never happen to me!" I only think about the dander when I can actually see it in the sun, and that's not very often at this time of year!!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Cynthia,

Very glad to see you're back.

That's a frightening story...thank goodness John was there for you.

I hope you will be good as new and with the precautions you'll be taking, never have to go through another experience like this one ever again.

Linda


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you for posting all the details, Cynthia. These are definitely things we all need to be aware of. What a very frightening experience for you and for John.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks everyone.  

I am hoping that I will still be able to provide nursing care to local rescues but not in my own home. I can provide cage, food, medicines etc. and wear a mask if tube feeding or other more complicated procedures are needed. Unfortunately my own garden is already covered with aviaries so I can't erect a hospital shed.

Cindy, I am certain that you were affected by the same condition. Your breathing problems came virtually out of the blue and were so devastating!

Feather, according to my notes inpatient management consisted of oxygen, prednisolone, antibiotics - intravenous cefotaxime and clarithromycin. And there is a note to say "patient advised not to keep patients indoors", my patients being the pidgies. In relevant history it said "Has 80 pigeons at home. Recently has been keeping a number in her bedroom in isolation as they were quite poorly". Isn't that nicely put? 

In the "presenting symptoms" it says "Shortness of breath at rest, cough productive of litle sputum, unresponsive to course of antibiotics. Worsening exercise tolerance over past few months. Then relevant examinations says Chest, coarse crackles all over, no wheeze. Cyanosis, no clubbing. Sats unrecordable RR 40...does anyone know what the last bit means?

While in hospital I was also treated for low potassium levels, perhaps unconnected to this. My blood pressure tablets were stopped due to low blood pressure and my daily headaches and regular migraines stopped altogether!

Now I am on Prednisolone and Alendronic Acid (to protect my bones) until my next appointment in 6 weeks time.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Cyanosis, no clubbing. Sats unrecordable RR 40...does anyone know what the last bit means?
> 
> ...



Cyanosis is the bluish skin color indicating lack of oxygen. Clubbing is flattening of the nail beds due to chronic oxygen deprivation. Sats is the oxygen saturation in the arterial blood (by the red blood cells, they transport the oxygen to the tissues) RR = respiratory rate.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Reti!

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I was delighted to see you back, too. Your story sounds as bad as I imagined it from the little bit that John told us. I guess there are people who can do this stuff forever and it's not a problem but for a lot of us, either precautions need to be taken or there's a time limit on how long we can do it before it gets us. Dang! I really hate that.

Pidgey


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## pigifan (Nov 2, 2005)

It's great to have you back, Cynthia.

I hope everything goes well and you are able to enjoy the company of your pigeons.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

WELCOME BACK! I have been away for a few days and only just realized you've been so ill! I'm so glad you're feeling better, going to the hospital can be so frightening. I hope you will improve very quickly and get completely well soon!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Cynthia, how great it is to see you posting once again. You have so helpful and supportive to many of us here with your knowledge and wisdom, not to mention all the bird lives you actually save yourself. How tragic to see this happening to you. I dearly hope you bounce back.

Your dilemma makes me feel somewhat relieved that we built a pigeon coop outdoors to house our 6 pigeons. Even when we just had Tooter in the house, he had a tendency to make a mess with overshooting his droppings and feathers/dander.We tried to keep them all indoors, but came to realize that this would not be healthy for us, or good for them to free fly for an hour or two in a closed room. For one or two pet pigeons, it is doable, but not a small flock. 

I will take heed from your experience and buy some masks for the children and us when we are in the coop interacting with them or servicing their needs. 

*Does anyone know if a good disposable type mask will work for preventing problems? *


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

I hope you feel better, and have a short road to recovery!! In the flip side....YIKES! My grandpa got me into pigeons when I was 13, and now almost 16, it makes me think about the long run. I've been hearing about this 'Pigeon Lung' disease. I told my doctor when I went for my annual check-up that I had pigeons, and he said "oh my." I was going to ask what he ment...... should have! He didn't sound too impressed. I used to wear a mask when cleaning the loft, but they get annoying....so I take them off. Now, I got two 3 foot box fans making a draft to carry out the dust. 

Hope you feel better!!!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, 

A warm welcome back to you and I'm glad you're out of the hospital now!  It sounded like you were in really bad shape when you were admitted! It must have been very scarey for you to go through this and to be so deprived of breath and oxygen. How do you feel overall right now?

I hope that when you go back in 6 weeks for the follow-up that everything will be fine and you will feel even better by then. I'm relieved that you will be using masks now and taking proper precautions around the pigeons. Even though you're out of the hospital and feeling better now, don't overdo things and make sure you just take it easy all around.

This whole episode is does send a very serious message to us all indeed.


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Welcome back Cynthia My goodness, I had no idea that it be as serious as you mentioned! I'm going to have to mask up while cleaning up after the kids now. I hope you have a speedy recovery so you can enjoy the Holidays with you family and flock.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Cynthia, so glad you are under treatment and have started to recover!!! Please remember that you can contribute to the welfare of pigeons in many different ways. Safeguarding your health is critical!



jazaroo said:


> ...So it's off today to get replacement filters for the HEPA units and get them running full time again...


Anyone who has/gets a HEPA filter, please remember that you need to clean the filters regularly. With the single feral in the guest room, I've been doing it every two weeks since she was molting. I also have a HEPA filter in my (home) office to reduce the overall allergen load. The effect on your lungs in cumulative, so anything you can do to lessen the load helps!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cynthia, so glad to see you are well enough to post and to hear 
that you are back home once again. Your story is a very frightening one,
and we are fortunate that you've taken the time to explain your experience.
It's easy to think that it's just something that happened to someone else and
won't/can't happen to us, but this just ain't necessarily so. I hope you have a full recovery and that with precautions in place, never have to go through this experience again, Cynthia.
You are so fortunate to have John, both for you and your birds, he really 
pulled you all through this with amazing grace.... 

fp

PS-Victor, from one of the links that John provided in his thread:

http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/masks.html#moldex

Disposables can be used, but you want the Moldex kind, most hardware stores, lumber yards and paint stores will carry these. If you have facial hair, time to shave it in the area where the mask makes the seal on your face


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi Cynthia,

WELCOME BACK!
It's great that you have been released from the hospital & are back home. 
Bob & I have been saying additional prayers for you (& John) every day. 
Thank God that John came to the rescue. Please give him a BIG kiss for me. 
Take GOOD care of yourself & be very, very careful from now on. 
May God bless you with good health & keep you in His care.

Phyll


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I looked up a picture of the "clubbing" of the fingers for those of us who'd like to understand the symptoms and warning signs more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ClubbingFingers1.jpg

It looks to me more like the pads of the fingers are receding around the nails and that makes the nails look larger by comparison although there is some reshaping of the nails as well.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pidgey, when I saw the picture, I thought fluid retention as the fingers/hands appear puffy. So that's where I started to look. Apparently, it's most commonly found w/impairment of a major organ, the most frequently cited being the lungs, but also lists liver and heart problems as well. Thought this site was an interesting site on the topic:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/clubbing.htm

Here's another link though not as comprehensive:

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/oct98/908128374.An.r.html

Yet another:

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei...fluid+retention&d=GYuihkVuN4GU&icp=1&.intl=us

fp


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

feralpigeon said:


> PS-Victor, from one of the links that John provided in his thread:
> 
> http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/masks.html#moldex
> 
> Disposables can be used, but you want the Moldex kind, most hardware stores, lumber yards and paint stores will carry these. If you have facial hair, time to shave it in the area where the mask makes the seal on your face


fp~ How did you know I am growing a beard ? I am on my second week, and was starting to like it and Bev was"getting use to it". I was hoping to grow it out so I can do a comb over since I am getting thin on top, but I guess I will have to _shave_ that thought! 

I intended to go the hardware store across the street from my morning school bus place, but somehow spaced it off. I'll try and remember in the morning. Making adjustments is not easy. I can only imagine what Cynthia has to go through with her home-rehab sanctuary.


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Cynthia, Welcome. Glad you are out of the hospital and on the road to recovery.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Pidgey, when I saw the picture, I thought fluid retention as the fingers/hands appear puffy. So that's where I started to look. Apparently, it's most commonly found w/impairment of a major organ, the most frequently cited being the lungs, but also lists liver and heart problems as well.
> 
> fp


Well, when I looked at that picture and compared it to my own hand, it looks to me like the ends of the fingers are shorter than they should be. I surmised (perhaps wrongly) that there was a recession of the very tip-end flesh. There is some obvious edema further back in the fingers making them appear puffy and the fingernails look as though they've gotten a lot wider. I'm having a difficult time imagining that the nail bed would actually widen under the circumstances of less oxygen so the only conclusion that I came up with was... the one that I came up with. 

I have to admit that the camera used for the picture has a wide angle lens and so it's not the best illustration to make any solid conclusions on. I was hoping that eventually Cynthia would tell us more, and if she noticed any development this way far enough back in time for it to be considered an "early warning" system for the rest of us.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pidgey 

Pidgey, not a problem, every one processes information differently and sometimes may also arrive at the same destination. I thought the hand proper to appear puffy, and the lower part of the finger, although this is just so speculative without seeing the whole person in front of us….. From the middle of the finger to the fingernail, it just appeared to be much thicker than normal overall. I just took my impressions and started the search there, that’s all.

From everything I’ve read, they truly don’t know the exact cause of the clubbing, they can say what occurs, and many of the illnesses that it is associated with, but are still learning about what it actually is, be it hereditary, disease process related, or a combination of the two. It can affect toes as well as fingers and doesn’t necessarily affect all of the fingers on either hand. There do appear to be some agreed upon observations, a deformity of the nail itself, by increasing in length and width and the nail bed becoming spongy, vasodilatation ( a widening of the blood vessels from relaxation of the muscular wall of the blood vessel), and hypertrophy (enlargement due to increased size of cells). 

One of the common speculations seems to be that it occurs as a result of the lack of oxygen, although, as previously mentioned, they really don’t know the exact cause, still in the works. 

Here’s a pretty good link on the topic:

http://www.emedicine.com/derm/byname/clubbing-of-the-nails.htm

To clarify,I thought that Cynthia did not have clubbing at the time of my intitial post on the topic.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks again everyone for your good wishes.

I thought it might reassure some of you to hear that from what I have read on the internet "extrinsic allergic alveolitis" does not affect children . It also has a number of causes other than birds (including air conditioning and hot tubs), but because so many people keep birds that form, and farmer's lung (due to moldy hay) are the most common form of the disease. 

I went to the doctor's this morning and he read the letter he had received from the hospital, which said that the results of my CT scan were "atypical" of extrinsic allergic alveolitis and that it could be Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. I expect the biopsy results will at least establish the cause conclusively.

In the meantime my super helmet has arrived. When I went into the aviary the poor birds panicked and all flew into the shelter where they perched in rows on some round perches that they usually ignore. I wish I had had a camera with me, they looked so cute in their neat rows.

They are gradually realising that the noisy creature is harmless. Poppet was the first to accept me, the ferals are gradually relaxing but the woodies are still frightened.


Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My birds got used to my mask (it doesn't cover the eyes--does yours?) fairly quickly. I think I'd have an easier time of it if I installed a ventilation fan to keep the lighter dust (the worst of it) blown out although in the harshest part of winter, I think that'd be a bad idea.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My pigeons don't worry about the normal mask, but the one use now is like a cross between a baseball helmet and a motorcyclist's crash helmet. It has a visor that covers my face, alien looking round filters on either side and as it has a battery to blow any stray dander away from my nose it makes an alien (to them) roaring noise.

Cynthia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cynthia, do you have a link to this respirator? Glad that you are feeling better
and that the birds are adjusting to your 'new look'.  

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi fp,

It is the aircap 2 featured in this article. You have to scroll down for it.

http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/articlefiles/art_nigellane.html

Cynthia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The information in the Aircap section reminds me about movies I've seen on Asbestosis where an entire family succumbed to it even though only the father
had 'direct' exposure due to employment. When he arrived home the little girl
(daughter) would jump up on him and give him a big 'hello' hug, then later the wife would shake his work clothes out and put on the clothes line.
Safety precautions are so important, we just never know what's around the 
corner with our health.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

My mask/respirator looks like I'm preparing for battle, a nucleur one.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I have been using disposable gloves the last two days, though I always apply hand sanitizer when I am finished cleaning the coop and changing their feed/water dishes. They still are not too sure of the gloves, but Rosco did accept my hand today and hopped on it whereas yesterday, he wanted _nothing_ to do with the hand. Tooter nips at me still, so that is a good sign.

The mask, well it was not well received at first, but after a couple of days of speaking to them, they realized this creature was still me. They are slowly adapting to the change as I am too.

_Cynthia, how have you been these recent days?_


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am very much improved, thanks Victor.

I have suffered from migraines and severe headaches all my life and they were significantly worse during the past few months, but I have had 21 days of freedom from any pain. Whether it is the result of having had a complete rest or the steroids that I am taking I don't know but I have really appreciated the break!  

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, that is good news. Now, girl, why aren't you asleep this late?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Good question, Maggie! The dogs turned in an hour ago.

Goodnight!

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Glad to hear you're feeling much better, Cynthia. That's also good news that you've been pain free for nearly a month. It might be the steroids because they are anti-inflammatories and seem to work wonders in many ways. What kind of steroids are you taking? 

My mother has COPD and takes prednisone so I know a bit about this stuff. I hope the results from the biopsy turn out positive for you and that you continue to feel better and improve daily


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> *I am very much improved*, thanks Victor.
> 
> I have suffered from migraines and severe headaches all my life and they were significantly worse during the past few months, but I have had 21 days of freedom from any pain. Whether it is the result of having had a complete rest or the steroids that I am taking I don't know but I have really appreciated the break!
> 
> Cynthia


So glad to hear you are feeling better Cynthia.

For me, the Prednisone was a Godsend. I know there are pros & cons regarding it, but in my case, I can't imagine where I would have ended up without it. 

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Three pain-free weeks must be a huge relief to you after all you've been through, Cynthia. Glad to hear that things have much improved for your health,
you sound in very good spirits .

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am taking 30mg of prednisolone a day. The doctor says it is a high dose and that long term it isn't a solution because it can cause diabetes and high blood pressure as well as bloating. But as I have to have them for the time being I may as well enjoy the positive side effects.

Cindy, are you taking something to protect your bones?

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> I am taking 30mg of prednisolone a day. The doctor says it is a high dose and that long term it isn't a solution because it can cause diabetes and high blood pressure as well as bloating. But as I have to have them for the time being I may as well enjoy the positive side effects.
> 
> Cynthia


Hi Cynthia,

I am glad you are feeling so much better.

I was on on the Prednasone for a month, it is remarkable stuff. It was exactly what I needed at the time, and then I was slowly weaned off of it, as you can't back off of the dose all at once. 

I continue to take calcium/magnesium and other supplements, because it can make bones brittle. They have been a God send too.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> I am taking 30mg of prednisolone a day. The doctor says it is a high dose and that long term it isn't a solution because it can cause diabetes and high blood pressure as well as bloating. But as I have to have them for the time being I may as well enjoy the positive side effects.
> 
> 
> Cynthia


Hi Cynthia, 

Long term use of prednisone definitely isn't for everyone but it can work out ok and do good things for people coping with severe COPD like my mother. She takes 5 mg every day but like Treesa mentioned, there are other things that need to be kept in check when taking this steroid over the long term. 

One thing I remember most about my mother when she first started taking prednisone was the mood changes. She became very easily aggitated and angered. She also became very argumentative Of course these side effects aren't related to health issues, but I just thought I'd mention it to you. She was on the high doses too in the beginning during times of exacerbations then was weaned off gradually. It ended up however for my mom that long term use of this drug was needed for her to be able to have some quality of life.

Your doctor will be able to asses your situation of course and when the results come back from the biopsy. I suspect you probably won't need to be on prednisone long term anyway.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Strangely, Brad, I found that I became much more tolerant and easy going when I was in hospital, partly having to share a ward with 5 others who all made different noises night and day meant I could not afford to be irritated and so far it has continued now I am home...maybe that is a different side effect of the steroids. If so I hope it continues.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Long term use of prednisone definitely isn't for everyone but it can work out ok and do good things for people coping with severe COPD like my mother. She takes 5 mg every day but like Treesa mentioned, there are other things that need to be kept in check when taking this steroid over the long term.


Sometimes, Brad, it's a "making a deal with the devil" kind of thing. You (or your doctors) know that it's going to shorten your life (the one you would expect if you didn't have the condition, at least) but the benefits are too good to pass up. So, sometimes, less really is more.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cynthia,

This week I had a book come in, from the UK actually, called Pigeon Disease and The Vet by D.A. Palmer B.V.Sc. M.R.C.V.S. . Just got around to having a look at it today.

The reason I am mentioning this is in chapter 17, Titled: The Pigeon As A Disease Risk To Man, he discusses Pigeon Fanciers Lung;

_Pigeon Fanciers Lung
This condition is not unknown. It resembles asthma or farmers lung in its symptoms but the changes in the lung are irreversible unlike asthma. There is an allergic reaction to the common chlamydia of pigeons, which causes acute breathlessness and irreversible fibrosis of the lungs. The chlamydia is present in bird saliva so the habit of putting pigeons beaks into your mouth is not advisable. The dust in the loft will also contain dried chlamydia which are just as troublesome. In order to suffer from this disease you have to be allergic to chlamydia or 'pigeon dust' and this is an unlikely event. Such unfortunate people need to keep away from pigeons. Research has shown up to 60% of pigeons carry chlamydia so a face mask available from the R.P.R.A. may reduce the risk of breathing in these organisms when moving or cleaning the birds in the loft._

My understanding was that this condition was caused by a reaction to the protein in Pigeon dander, but it seems he is saying that it can also be bacterial in nature or that chlamydia is the aggravating factor. The book was written in 1994, so although not recent, it is fairly current.

Just putting this out there to add to the information in this thread or comments.

Ron

Mods, if there is a problem with the direct quote from the book, with regards to copyright, please edit my post or let me know and I will paraphrase the passage.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

When I quote the Big Book anymore, I always give chapter and verse and put a sales ad in there for the Harrisons. That way, I'm doing more good than harm when I quote.

I've often wondered about Chlamydial agents in the poop and have worried about that. It's funny, though, that if Chlamydophila were really that prevalent then we should see a lot more of it and have to report it more because it IS a reportable disease. Did you see Reti's recent post on the new bird?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=169941&postcount=65

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Yes Pidgey, I did see Reti's post, that is partly why I posted the passage. I did try to do as you do and give full discloser about the source of the information and credit.

Perhaps, chlamydia in Pigeons can be like Coccidiosis or Trichomonasis, where many birds do carry it, but it is kept in check by a healthy immune system.

Ron


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is an interesting theory, but chlamydia pneumonia e classified as ornithosis/ chlamydiosis/psittacosis and I expect would turn up in blood tests http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic341.htm?

This was my first fear because I thought my Little Lulu might have been born infected, so my doctor listed as a possible cause in my admission notes, but by that time I had already been on antibiotics for a week and had significantly deteriorated during that period which more or less ruled out a bacterial infection.

Reti, I am really concerned about you and Lee now.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you, Cynthia. We will get through this. We are extra careful now and Lee isn't going anywhere near the birds.
Thank you for the link, it a very good one and pretty thorough. I am gathering all the info I can get on pulmonary diseases.

Glad you are feeling better.
One thing Lee had from prednisone is he gained a lot of weight. That is what he hated the most with that treament.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is the weight gain that is bothering me, too. I lost a lot of weight before being hospitalised but even so I was only just within the top of the healthy range for my age and height. Since coming home I have already gained 8 lb. I think that even my fattest clothes will be too small for me soon.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

8 pounds is quite a lot.
Guess you will have to go clothes shopping soon. Just kidding, hope it won't be that bad.
How long will you stay on the Prednisone?

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Cynthia,

While not defending Dr. Palmer's statements, I do think they are interesting, my understanding is unless a DNA/PCR test is specifically run for Chlamydia, regular blood tests, CBC, may only show indication that an infection is present and not the causative agent. Also, even these tests, DNA/PCR are not 100% accurate.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> It is the weight gain that is bothering me, too. I lost a lot of weight before being hospitalised but even so I was only just within the top of the healthy range for my age and height. Since coming home I have already gained 8 lb. I think that even my fattest clothes will be too small for me soon.
> 
> Cynthia




Hi Cynthia,

I gained quite some weight myself, but lost it once I was off the prednisone. I started out too skinny to begin with.  

The worst reaction I had, was swelling of the face, I looked terrible...but it did go away within a couple of weeks, I felt very self conscious, cause I had to look at myself in the mirror, my husband said it wasn't that bad. (He was probably being nice)


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Folks, 

Yes, the prednisone is pretty famous for putting on the pounds. My mother gained a bit but she's eats like a bird anyway. In the beginning and when she wasn't taking it regularly, she found her appetite and ate a lot. Now that she's on it regularly, things have stabilized in many ways. I think the face swelling is called "moon face" or something like that and that is another common side effect of the drug.

Like with any drug, if affects each person a little differently and you also get accustomed to the effects as the person's body starts to tolerate and get used to the medication.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Well, I am really fond of my food, so I will just have to tolerate my altered appearance and go on the Slimming World diet once I come of steroids.

I am not exactly an oil painting as it is and I feel so much better since I have been on them that I will just have to avoid looking in a mirror for a couple of months. The main thing is that I am well enough to look after my pigeons , my cat and my dog properly.

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Well, I am really fond of my food, so I will just have to tolerate my altered appearance *The main thing is that I am well enough to look after my pigeons , my cat and my dog properly*.
> 
> Cynthia


Hi Cynthia, 

I had to laugh at what you said about loving your food I think we can *ALL *relate to such statements,  if we are honest with ourselves and others

I think for you, you will do very well now just being in the position that you're in and like you mentioned, being able to look after your animals. This is what is important and relevant to you and hopefully something that will prove more powerful than anything else that you've had to deal with lately.

Best wishes to you from me and all of us


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