# Kite Splash #329



## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

I have bred a few splashes like this that appear to have a white bar on the wing shields. Has anyone any ideas on what causes this?

Gordon Jones

Australian Jacobin Club Website
http://austjacobins.homestead.com/ajc.html


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I've never seen exactly such an effect before, but I would guess grizzle or undergrizzle could be responsible.


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hello Rudolph...... I have not come across this effect also. I was not aware of grizzle being in the background of the parents of this bird.

Thank-you
Gordon


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The bird looks grizzle to me. As for the bar, maybe a combination of grizzle and undergrizzle.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Not splash. It's grizzle. Many people call it "tortoiseshell" here. Bronze and grizzle on blue.


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks Evan & Becky.....

This is a photo of a sibling that I bred last year from the same pair that has had a full moult.

regards
Gordon


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

This bird is also grizzle and for the young to be grizzle atleast one of the parents is aswell.

There are some genes, Spread, dirty for example that can cause a grizzle bird to be hard to identify. What are the parents. Do you have pics?

I am wondering if the slightly different expression (more white than usual) around the bar area could possibly be down to the lenghtened feathers that come with the jacobin breed.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Thats a good looking bird, but where is the face?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pijlover said:


> Thats a good looking bird, but where is the face?


your joking aye lol?


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Evan is right, at least one of the parents must be grizzle also... Pictures could help us identify which one.


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi Evan & Rudolph........... This is a photo of the parents of these birds. Bronze kite hen and splash cock???

Thank-you
Gordon


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, it looks like a bronze kite hen but the cock looks homozygous grizzle. He could be het grizzle but either way is defenitely grizzle. Have all the birds off them looked like the young in the pics?


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi Evan........... I have bred 2 other young from this pair, both are almost white with a little flecking, which is the some colour as the father.

regards 
Gordon


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I agree that the cock is definitely grizzle, but I don't think it is homozygous, though it is hard to tell with so much white pied (splash as you call it). Evan is asking about the specifics of the other babies, to figure out if the cock is **** or het grizzle.

Keep breeding him to solids like this hen, and maybe you'll get more grizzles without the splash interference.


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks Rudolph, Would putting the old cock over a blue bar hen be a good way to improve the grizzle effect?

Thank-you
Gordon.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Hi Gordon, IMO it would be, I love blue bar grizzles ( the classic look ).

It may still take some work to get rid of the pied or splash genes but sometimes you get what your after first pop, It's partly luck of the draw.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I think Rudolph is right, Looking at the coloured feathers its probably het grizzle. I assumed pied was not in the mix.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Grizzle is a dominant factor, so you should get about half the young from this cock to be grizzle, no matter who you mate him to.

I like grizzles with dark flights, so I would mate to a blue bar, hoping for grizzle birds that are not splash/pied...


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## ntama (Jul 9, 2012)

This is one of my Grizzle modena from last year,the parents was ****. Grizzle cock and Spread black hen.The cock also het.Ts bronz

Regards
Tamas


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

I've decided to add my two cents about these tort./grizzle Jacobins. It has been mentioned that splash may be involved in their coloration. I'm quite certain that they're not splash but appearing so because of the long loose feathering with hood allowing the underside of the feathers to be visible on neck area. I think mating to blue bar (without bronze) will get you some nice classic grizzles. However it may take a couple generations if these torts are homozygous t-check. Also, the presence of pied was mentioned. All Jacobins are pied with baldhead markings,(white head, tail, flights and underside).
Nice looking Jacs, I must say!


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks tmaas........... I have only seen a few blue grizzle Jacobins photos. I have attached a photo of one that was bred in Bahrain the Middle East recently. If I could reproduce this here, it would be very exciting.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> I've decided to add my two cents about these tort./grizzle Jacobins. It has been mentioned that splash may be involved in their coloration. I'm quite certain that they're not splash but appearing so because of the long loose feathering with hood allowing the underside of the feathers to be visible on neck area. I think mating to blue bar (without bronze) will get you some nice classic grizzles. However it may take a couple generations if these torts are homozygous t-check. Also, the presence of pied was mentioned. All Jacobins are pied with baldhead markings,(white head, tail, flights and underside).
> Nice looking Jacs, I must say!


All makes sense but just one thing that has me confused there tmaas, You state you are certain splash is not in the mix but later on mention that all jacobins are pied. If you do not class pied as splash, what is splash in your opinion? I always thought it was just a slang name for pied birds.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Evan, true splash is a gene separate from pied, most often tiger grizzle, but not always. Also, some splashed birds are also piebald being mingled with the splash therefore not identifiable. Splashed baldhead marked English Trumpeters are as common as splashed Jacobins and Capuchins which, when mated to a solid colored baldhead marked bird, produce splashes and solids with good baldhead markings. It works the same as grizzle.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I am still confused, So splash is a seperate gene, Most often tiger grizzle. That statement in itself does not make sense.... If splash is a seperate mutant gene it cannot be tiger grizzle as tiger grizzle has already been identified and had a genetic symbol denoted to it.

If not always tiger grizzle what are the other genes that can cause it?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Evan, please read more closely. I did not say that it was a separate mutant gene, I said it was separate from pied (piebald). And, yes, it is almost always tiger grizzle. The reason that I say "almost" always is because some recessive red splashes, sometimes called mottled, especially in racing homers, are not any type of grizzle nor piebald.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry for misunderstanding yout post, generally stating something is a seperate gene implies it is a gene of its own. I now know you meant "splash" is a seperate phenotype to the one the pied genes create and is most often caused by the tiger grizzle gene.


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## Ryan Ward (Oct 9, 2012)

yes putting the cock on a blue hen would improve the grizzle effect! or anything barred for that matter


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## 12Ka-6 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi Ryan, I have mated him to a blue bar hen and they are on eggs at the moment. I am looking forward to the young hatching.....

Thank-you Gordon


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeap Blue bar grizzles are nice. You will get more grizzling in the shield area with barred birds than you do with checks or T checks, Light blue checks make nice grizzles too IMO but as soon as you have dark check or T pattern in the mix it inhibits the grizzle to the extent its sometimes not even visible without looking closely at the feathers.


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