# Can I get White Rollers from these two



## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

What do you think are the chances of getting white young from the black an white male roller (named Dove) and the little pure white female roller at the very back. He is pearl eyed, she does apear to have some orange in her eyes however. She is his grandaughter.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Slim.  They will throw birds with colored feathers most likely.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Pretty good chance*

She is white and his grandaughter, he is mostly white. What were her mother and father like? It's hard to tell if you have recessive white which makes pure white pigeons or if you have pied or grizzle that has made them all white. It certainly won't hurt to try. Recessive whites typically have bull eyes but not always. If it's pied that has gone to pure white, it's a bit of a crapshoot but the whiter the breeders, the greater the chance of producing an all white. The grizzles work best with ash red if you are trying to make them pure white. Most white pigeons that do not have bull eyes are of this makeup. There are exceptions to all of these generalizations.

Bill


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*Sweeties grandparents and parents*

Dove was her grand dad and his mate was Dusty a brown hen with gray wing tips. They had about 6 darker chicks, blacks and browns before they had 
Sweeties parents who we called them mommy and daddy white bird... she was white with some black flecks on the wings and he white with brown flecks. I looked though all my old pics but can not find any off them. We gave them to a fellow who wanted to start breeding and liked the white color..er lack of .
Sweety is one of three young they had which were white. Her brother has a black mark on the very tip of his wing. He still has it. She had a light gray mark on her neck but it disappeared during the first molt.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*What Renee says is true, but....*



Gille said:


> Dove was her grand dad and his mate was Dusty a brown hen with gray wing tips. They had about 6 darker chicks, blacks and browns before they had
> Sweeties parents who we called them mommy and daddy white bird... she was white with some black flecks on the wings and he white with brown flecks. I looked though all my old pics but can not find any off them. We gave them to a fellow who wanted to start breeding and liked the white color..er lack of .
> Sweety is one of three young they had which were white. Her brother has a black mark on the very tip of his wing. He still has it. She had a light gray mark on her neck but it disappeared during the first molt.


I guess I look at it a different way. She said that your odds are slim and while this is true, you may very well produce some pure white birds. Producing them consistently is easier by other ways, such as starting with pure white birds, recessive whites being the best bet. They won't ever throw anything but white. You have what you have and I encourage you to try. I like taking the hard road myself at times and find it more fun to make your own. It's a bit of a challenge to create something that you want from something that you have. Makes it more worthwhile when you get there.

I can't be sure what genes you have but from what you are saying, it seems that you may have both grizzle and pied which makes for alot of very light marked pieds or near whites. If you have ash red in any of your birds, you can keep breeding ash red grizzles together to eventually make pure white birds. I have not seen anything but blue and white (black is also blue) and this is probably a more random approach to hoping for pure whites to occur.
As long as you keep using the ones with the most white, I would think that some pure whites will show up. 

I guess that's enough babble to say go for it. Good luck.

Bill


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*a more random approach*



> I have not seen anything but blue and white (black is also blue) and this is probably a more random approach to hoping for pure whites to occur.


I'm thinking I aught to have kept Mommy and Daddy white birds...lol
The were having almost pure whites. One hen chick was pure white, the second hen chick only had the one light gray spot which vanished during molt and the third male chick has the one black wing tip. 


> If you have ash red in any of your birds, you can keep breeding ash red grizzles together to eventually make pure white birds.


We do have one ash red grizzle hen. I had her mated up with Dove but there was a fight over the nest and the first two eggs broke. The second set neither sat on. This is her pic


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Well, it's a start*

But using this ash red may take a few generations to get all whites as I'm guessing that she is only heterozygous grizzle, meaning she will have both grizzle and non grizzle babies. I wouldn't rule out that she could have a white or near white but I'd think the birds with even less markings would be more likely to do so sooner. It's one of those things that you can never be sure of.
I have some very near whites from figuritas that came from two ash reds, one saddle marked (mom) and very similar to this bird and dad is also ash red but has no white. I suspect a couple of different grizzle genes but still don't really know.

I have also produced two white baby rollers this year and never had any before with this group that I've had for almost 25 years. One, I'm pretty sure is a recessive white and came from a black grizzle pied and a recessive red dominant opal hen. Must have just hit the right combination. The opal is new to the flock. All I can figure is that these two are both carrying recessive white, which I had no idea that I even had.

Now, I have another that looks white so far but has a slightly colored beak. Dad is an andalusion, split for reduced and who knows what else. Mom is a reduced black. These are also both new birds and I don't know what to make of this yet.

These are some of the unpredictable surprises that make this such an interesting hobby.

Bill


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*thank you*

thanks Bill... I will use the whiter birds. Let you know what comes of it once the settle into mating.


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

You do not presently have a recessive white. I can state that as a fact because you mention that the white has orange eyes. Recessive whites have bull eyes. However, your odds of getting some pure whites out of the granddad x granddaughter mating are fairly good. That's how a friend of mine got his. In fact, his original birds looked much like yours. They went back to that guy in San Diego who had the Pearl eyed whites (can't remember his name now, it's getting worse as I get older). Whenever you deal with colored eyed whites, you'll almost always have some foul feathering, especially in youngsters, but it can get to where you want to go. Have fun, raise lots, and fly for the best. (Sometimes "genetics" is just numbers and old time pigeon sense )


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## Gille (Sep 8, 2006)

*resessive whites*

The white an black bird (Dove) has pearl eyes but I think he was bread to be pied as both he and his brother were black and white. His brother unfortunately hit a cloths line just a few months after we got them. Doves had one eye hooked by my sons cat (a now relocated cat). We thought he'd loose the eye but though it is a bit scared it's still there. He also dislocated a leg at the knee joint. Not sure where or how but it too healed up. At 2 and a half he's one tough fellow. But he is gentle and hand trained. Smart enough to tell me should I not notice, "hey you we're out of food or water here!" lol
I use him to show the other birds that "up" means off the perch and onto the hand. I gte up at 5:30am feed and water them go to work for 3 hours and then spend a few minutes each morning getting the four more accustomed to being handled. Then i go back to work and when I get home in the evening do likewise. When I got home today three of them were all sittng under the lamp together. One homer and two rollers. All sitting on the larger corner perch. nice to see they all get along so well. So far I am very pleased at how things are going. Nice to see my wife allows me to bring them inside. I should have asked last year...lol Thanks for the input


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