# leg lameness, weight loss, fluffed/ruffled feathers, listlessness, sneezing



## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

ive been using broad spectrum antibiotics on this bird now for while, and just started a new one that seemed to be taking the swelling of an apparent hot and swollen badly injured joint, either from whatever its sick with, secondary infection, or just being thrown off perch in night, like others were having done also to them when noticed it was lame and just keeping hiding in the feeder all the time or corner etc o bottom of cage. it was suggested before leg not working and swollen and held up and back, that it was phenomonia, then upper resperatory infection. now a second bird is coming up lame that was sick first but seemed to get better, but leg isnt swollen just lame, still uses some, but feels like thin and maybe tore tendon or muscles etc. i moved that one before i noticed the leg i think, as just seperated the flocks back to how they were, to stop harrassment and hopefully avoid injury. any diseases that these would be symptoms of? i tried finding avian vet, and there arnt any around but one that doesnt ever get back to me and whoever did talk to gave impression a pet performing or show pigeon even wasnt worth their time.. ive tried: erythromycin, and now tetracycline, both broad spectrum antibiotics supposedly for pet birds, first primarily used for resperatory disease, and second just done for days now, also secondarily used for bacterial infections (which was seeming to help some the one day). also cold mostly, but sometimes and in some key spots hot. 

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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Salmonella will cause the symptoms you describe (except for the sneezing). I would isolate these 2, and put on heat (heating pad set on low) to start with. Baytril would be better. Are mice getting into your loft? That will spread salmonella. The sneezing (uri) could be secondary.....tetracycline is good for that.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

theyve had contact with other animals and birds i have that dont have that issue at all and others from that flock that started getting sick got better on own without any help, just tried some new feeds for while, but theyre now wanting old normal feed again and not the pumped up stuff. i bought chick feed that supposed to help with cocci and salmonella, but they wont eat it anymore. no one anywere around here will give me baytril for pigeons, and keep getting told itll kill them or just not work if to low a dose, as they only keep in very high concentration at the least for commercial poultry.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

would that address the lameness, cold, large amounts of water in green at times but otherwise normal droppings though have an odd odor to like sour at first but now sweet maybe?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I've used baytril many times with no problems. The correct dose is 5-10mg per bird divided daily. Medicated foods are not good, they will build up a resistance to the medication, making it useless. A good quality pigeon mix is best, with fresh water and grit. And treat with meds ONLY when necessary. If mice are getting into your loft or feed, you need to remedy that or the birds are going to just keep getting sick and die.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Waynette is right in that this could be Salmonella, and if you are getting mice in your loft, then your birds are going to keep getting sick. You can buy Liquid Baytril online at All Bird Products. Here's the link:
http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/baytril.html


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

i have them in cages in my upstairs of my apartment, but the one that originally got sick, maybe the second one, were outside on balcony at first, and were wild birds and squirrels etc, but the other pigeons never had any trouble, and these seemed fine till got sudden chilled. the new rescue kitteh kills all the rodents and bugs (usually eating them), except still roaches from walls on and off (though the pigeons seem to love to eat bugs and attack rodents they can get at, which is odd i keep hearing they only eat seeds, as i feed them really good seeds, greens, and pellets), and some suggested it was the black mold probably making them sick (its all over in the walls and on the inside of one, and probably in the air system), and ive been sick from it, and trying to move to downtown knox area..

im currently using a medicated powder that goes into the water daily, but just recently the sick ones arnt drinking alot, or eating alot unless i cycle types of foods. they do seem to want to eat mostly the saflower seeds.. can i just let them eat as much of that as they want and not mix it in with rest of seed mix, or to much protien?


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

thanks for all the help, it is very appreciated, as resourses here are limmited, and most would rather see all pigeons dead, so they arnt or cant help resourse wise. was hearing a chicken disease causes leg trouble, but dont know if pigeons can get. ???


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, in a situation like that, you shouldn't even have birds.The mice and cockroaches will spread Salmonella which will eventually kill them, and the black mold will cause the respiratory and other things and probably eventually kill them also. That is not a safe environment for anything to live in, and unless you get them out of there, you are putting them all at risk. You are also putting your own health at risk. NO meds are going to help as long as these conditions do not change.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

yes i know im trying to move (legally blind so dont drive, and no resources since divorce, to get out to look at places), and got the rodents and bugs gone (though the cat killed and hid some rats somewhere, and im not knowing were they are by playing "find that smell", unless they did get back into the wall and die). ive seen pics of big and small lofts of people on here with rodent feces, and patches of black mold, in by the birds. the conditions are not my doing, just the owner of building stopped wanting to put money into place and before that even, so sold and place is rotting till new owners fix up, let fall down, or tear down and gut out to put something updated here. the manager seems to be trying to do things on own to help and such, but the low lives we had living here up till recent, just so they had tenants, brought all sorts of stuff in here, and my place is apparently one of the best ones. i dont even know anyone close who would temp take the birds for me till i can get another place, and been getting rid of most of my pets had for years, and thought pigeons would be fine outside, but one new one got sick after quarantining them then putting out side. i was told to bring all in and keep warm to they didnt die of pneumonia, on here or chicken talk. i figured pigeons could live outside.. as was told by everyone theirs did just fine as long as kept dry and fed well, draft free (which is impossible unless you dont have ventilation), and poop cleaned up and out of food and water as much as possible. was told by most if theyre that weak, to just cull them and breed from ones that can and babies will be stronger.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I didn't say it was your fault. All I said was that the birds wouldn't be safe with rodents, roaches and mold. They will continue to get sick. And if you've seen pics of lofts with rodents and mold, then shame on them. They will have the same problems. Just the way it is.


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

i do feel its my fault, for not being able to get them out of here before now, but hoping i could find best treatment for now at least, for whatever they are getting especially with the lameness, and now possibly just helped with what i thought of originally, but passed up trying for expensive non helping stuff.. i even went out and got a two hundred dollar air purifier for the birds area to try to help, which they did alot better around that time, and then cause of a fault, tried another kind, turning out the ionic pulse/pro/breeze, whatever, gives off high amounts of ozone which is toxic to birds and people even! crap im just not doing well at this. it was alot easier when had chickens, as they ate everything that moved, and didnt mind the cold at all, or ever get sick until after brought inside and had all the flooding etc. i just thought pigeons were supposed to be tougher as alot had described what would seem filthy freezing horrible conditions their birds fly home to and just become resistant to over generations or through parents etc. the birds themselves i keep clean aside from some dried poop chips of their own. apple cider vinager in water mostly now over the normal cheap white vinager.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

You can only do the best you can while your in your current living situation. And it sounds like your trying to do that. Those conditions aren't good for _you_ either. Pigeons are hardy, but they have alot against them right now. Here are some links to meds that would help....
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/respiratory.html
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/563.html
Sulfa/trim takes care of alot of different problems. My guess is that it started as salmonella and escalated to respiratory issues from what your describing. They need to be kept warm, clean, treated with a med, a good pigeon mix (let them pick out what they want), and I would put a dash of salt and sugar in their water to help them stay hydrated. AND.......Don't let them eat any bugs!


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## laughingdog (Jun 14, 2011)

well the bugs i have no control over, as stink bugs get in at times and were everywere, and know theyre toxic. as for the roaches been trying to get rid of them aside from ordering a bunch of feeder lizards and releasing them in my place. what they may have already had, but been triggered by stress of them being auctioned then sold to me, and maybe not being used to being out side or even out of nest yet, as were by loooking up, maybe alot younger than thought, and seemed that one caught a chill.. thats when the trouble with that group happened and now coming and going in that group. the big thing that seems new is the paratypiod, but thats not describing the chilled ruffled, or now extremely watery droppings.


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