# **The Official Pouter Thread**!!!



## Pouter Guy (Oct 11, 2012)

Well,there is not allot of people talking about the pouters lately so I thought I would make a thread about it. I want ALL the pouter people to get on board here and talk about you breed of pouter(s) and share pics and your experiance witht the breed you raise. This thread is open to ALL breeds of pouters(theiving,showing ect.). I will start us off with what birds I raise.
I raise Horseman theif pouters and Deportivos(picas for short). I raise the highest quality picas and horsemans I can. So,lets here from you all. One last thing,It is easier for me to post links to my album with pics of my birds than put them up on this thread. Here is a link to all my albums.http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/album.php?u=29614

Thanks


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## Pouter Guy (Oct 11, 2012)

WOW,I am surprised that NOBODY has posted anything. Well,on another note,my friend Darren Yang and I are working on a "hybrid" theif pouter. We have crossed short distance speed racers into our picas and horsemans. We now have a 60% pica,30% horseman theif pouter and 10% racing homer. The main reason we made the orginal cross was to make a BC hen to train our pica cocks to chase. But after seeing the hens brother theiving one of Darrens hens,we were hooked on these little crosses! These birds will be trained out like a homer but kept in a dark box like other theif pouter and trained to the box. I would like to hear some of you guys suggestions or comments on this.

Thanks


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## anabogos (Apr 30, 2008)

I have few of : Jiennense, Granadinos, Laudinos. They are awesome birs. I will post tomorrow.


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## Pouter Guy (Oct 11, 2012)

Cool! Do you fly your laudinos? I might be interest in a lauddino hen this fall for a radar project.

Thanks


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

I love pouters, and I raise some too, I thought we should revive this thread!


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

Young Granadino cock bred this year .


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

And his father .


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

And one of my breeding hens .


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## Pouter Guy (Oct 11, 2012)

Wow! Nice bird Dublin boy.

Thanks


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Nice one Brian, Do you keep other pouter Breeds?
I personally Prefere The Rafeno!
Also do you let your breeders Raise the babies or do you use the Foster parenting System?


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

Abdulbaki said:


> Nice one Brian, Do you keep other pouter Breeds?
> I personally Prefere The Rafeno!
> Also do you let your breeders Raise the babies or do you use the Foster parenting System?


Thanks guys , 

Abdulbaki I also keep Marchenero`s . I use feeders to rear both of my theif breeds ,I find racers do the best job . Marchenero cocks tend to lose intrest in the youngsters at about 10 to 14 days so its a must . Granadino`s are no better .


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

dublin boy said:


> Thanks guys ,
> 
> Abdulbaki I also keep Marchenero`s . I use feeders to rear both of my theif breeds ,I find racers do the best job . Marchenero cocks tend to leave the youngsters at about 10 to 14 days so its a must . Granadino`s are no better .


Ah, it's the same problem here, I always have to replace the eggs!
this summer I only managed to breed one Jiennense hen, the rest Didn't make it!
In the other hand Rafeno's are Totally unable to feed their babies
how do you deal with this problem, regardless replacing the eggs to racers


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

I like the rafeno`s too ,I had a couple of pairs of them here some years ago , I found they could handle a roller chick for a while because of the longer beak size but would soon give up on them like the marchies .

I should mention that sometimes during the breeding season I give the Marchenero`s a 2 day old chick to use up their crop milk .

Abdulbaki why the high loses with your Jiennense ? did you let the Jiennense rear the chicks ?


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Yes, ok, the first clutch the cock got lost ( I know we should not release the breeders)
The second one was the "disease season" In my loft The pair had canker so the chicks unfortunalty died, the third one which is the last one the both eggs hatched but one suddenly Disappeared so I replaced the nest and managed to raise this only hen!
In my area Pouters are the most susceptible breed to Illness etc...
to say this task is harder than it looks, I had no luck this year Next year I'll take needed Procedures.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

How does one make a radar?


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

thepigeonkey said:


> How does one make a radar?



Hi Luke ,Here's Anthonys full formula , hope it helps.





Radar Pouter

by Anthony Kellers

Over the past few years I have also developed some of my own strain of flying croppers, and for me the most successful flying cross was: 

Racer (cock) x Laudino (hen) = F1- young hen only (as this will give the body to the young)

X 

Gaditano or Marchenero Cock = below picture (young cock) 

It needs to be in this order/ no switching or the results change. 

The birds I produce from this have tremendous flying ability and a good size crop , as you can see from the pictures, whilst being able to fly at great speed after pigeons they spot in the sky. They also possess good homing ability, which means they can go hunting for up 5 miles and still return to the loft. Its important to use the hen only from the Laudino cross, as she will give the body/muscle when putting it back to a Gaditano/Marchenero cock, whilst also straightening the tail of the young. 





This bird is called Radar and has homed from 25 miles when released on various occasions.

Well- each cross you do has its own story, and tale- however the the principle of that cross is based on my understanding of genetics and the ability to "hold" the flying attributes of the racer and grade back in the sexual drive that makes these birds (croppers) unique.

I'm confident this formula will work for you if you follow it to the letter i.e. cock and hen in the right order and progeny mated back in the right order as per the document.

If not the formula breaks down- it need to be done in the exact order due to the inheritance values within it.

This simple formula took me years to come to ratify and conclude on - these birds will motor.

I have only two left since my move but I am breeding some as we speak. The two I have will and can chase a racer on route somewhere and turn it time after time, stay air borne for very long periods, and constantly strike up/of for hours- yes that's hours!! it is quite a buzz seeing a bird deflate his crop at will and motor after it prey at high velocity, and then when near the bird inflate the crop again and turn on the style.

Over the years I have made cropper crosses with tumbler, hawkers, racers, polish orlicks, toy pigeons, garden doves, Spanish with other Spanish, breed crossing, and although I had a feeling that this particular cross was heading in the right direction based on my theory of how a bird holds certain qualities and attributes, I was fortunate to come across this formula after 7 years of crossing - when it could have taken me 25 years.

I'm glad that you are giving it a go - that's exactly why I posted it, so that others can enjoy this cross.

3 guys can do the same cross with the same breed and come up with a gradiance of performance - however I believe the baseline performance indicators are there and as such in general the quality will be generally good.

The two I have - have been tossed and returned from 25 mile, same day within good time, and that was me not pushing them too hard.



A second article 

Over the past few years I have developed some of my own strains/family of flying croppers, a particular strain I like is the combination detailed below:


Racer (cock) x Laudino (hen) = F1- young hen only (as this will give the body to young)
X
Gaditano or Marchenero Cock = above picture (young cock)



The birds that are produced from this combination are a very good example of a flying thief pouter, they have the ability to stay airborne for long periods of time, they also tend to hold the homing instinct from their grandfather, this is an important factor if they are to “ hunt “ for many miles and capture the chosen hen, birds bred this way easily find their way back from five miles, and when they are in this kind of flying mood they really can shift at speed on the hunt.

I can recall letting RADAR go from my hand, in the presence of Dennis Murray, one morning when Den came for a visit, and within seconds it was up at a good height, putting on the style, when suddenly two white pigeons came over at high altitude, Radar had locked onto the target and was gone, coming back over 2 mins later like a speck in the sky, on the tail of a these white pigeons, another cock that I had also let go, started to “ drag” one of the white pigeons down to roof level, but the other one , I guess it was the cock of the pair, was having none of it and circled some more to gain height and then motored off, Radar deflated his crop in an instance and sped after it and they both disappeared off in the distance.

So Radar and the single white pigeon had both disappeared, and the other one was still hanging around with the gay pied cock, in the meantime I cooked Dennis a sausage sandwich, which we were eating in the garden, then some 35-40 mins later there was RADAR gliding in a circle, slowly losing height and altitude…….. All this fun and RADAR was just 16 weeks old!!

Now I read on average a pigeon fly’s about 30mile per hour, so if your tipplers fly around your loft for 1 hour, it an equivalent to flying 30 miles whether round and round or in a straight line, makes no difference, so guessed if RADAR had stayed airborne whilst tracking the white pigeon for 35-40 mins then, well u get an idea of the kind of mileage they can cover…….

When producing this combination it is very important to use the sexes in the correct order as you will get the inherent additions of what I call “the reversal effect” this is when as above, you put the racer cock bird to a Laudino hen, the hen will hold more physical stature in line with her father (the racer cock) and the young cock that of his mother (Laudino), I have observed this on many occasions with various crosses of two distinct lines/breeds.
This is natures way of making sure that the hen/cock bird respectively will produce offspring that although hold a combination of the genes from each parent, make it easier to replicate that fathers or mothers line back, and so ensure preservation of that dose of genes, should the young/offspring reach maturity and the subsequent selection process determine they mate back with the parent of the opposite sex.

E.g.

Young (cross) hen x racer cock (enabling that inherited genetic line to replicate)
Young (cross) cock x Laudino hen( same as above)

On this basis then, when the above combination is followed, the hen from the first cross will “hold “ a lot of her fathers( crack racer) physical qualities, i.e. shape, stamp, muscle, brains etc, so in turn when the final part of he combination is carried out and she is put back to a Spanish cock bird, in this case a Gaditano, although the dose of Spanish increases in the resulting young, giving an outwardly looking Spanish cropper type bird, the exciting bit is the “ reversal effect “ holds true so that all the cocks produced will hold physical traits from the mother, who has in turn inherited/ held them from her father, and the reversal effect is almost, like color sex linkage, cock down to hen and then down to cock, etc……

Note: the difference between this and color sex linkage is that the color will hold true for generation after generation all the time the correct breeding pattern is followed, where as with the reversal effect as you move away from the original cock (racer) the influence will dilute, however I have found the combination above will give just the right balance, and hold just the Wright amount of genes from the “stock racer” to have a evident effect on the flying cropper, whilst giving it a much stronger dose of Spanish blood and a much better cosmetic appearance than just say a straight 50%/50% cross.

If you wish the hens to hold the flying trait more hen, just reverse the whole combination.

Now within this combination I specifically chose the Coljito (Gaditano/Marchenero) cocks because firstly I wanted to lighten the body weight, from that of a typical racer, to something that is more buoyant and clap/glide in a more slower pace if needed, which you get from crossing these types of specific cropper, without necessarily losing the wing muscle, provided you are running the pure cock through the flying/cross hen. And secondly of what I call the “magnetized effect” that crosses from these birds produce when the right amount of blood is put in with the other ingredients. Too much and the birds lose the flying power, becomes too showy, to little and the “magnetized effect” is not in evidence.

The Coljito (Gaditano or Marchenero) has proved to be the one to hold this when put through my combination.
Well what’s the “magnetized effect” well as the name of one of my pigeons called RADAR will suggest, these combination birds, once excited and in flow, will lock on to a bird in the sky and without the benefit of a courtship dance, stick to that bird like a magnet and fly with her for mile after mile, out of sight, often the bird being pursued is oblivious to what’s going on and is simply flying home or back to a roost! The cropper is as if paralyzed by some magnetic force, unable to pull itself away, until the moment when the hen signals her interest, at which point the “drag” back to the loft will begin. Some times they capture sometimes not, as often they are chasing a cock, and will not find this out, because there was not courtships dance., until the birds alights many miles away.
Such is the homing instinct they always find there way back.

Often with other breeds of croppers ( pure breeds) I have had, they may try to turn the subject a few times early on, but often not commit to a blind chase out of sight to the back of beyond for miles if the subject is not in the mood or has not signaled any encouragement.

However when the “magnetized effect” is evident the a blind chase ensues, and at worst if no capture, your pigeon gets to motor out for a few miles of good exercise, with very little input or training from you.

The other benefit is that when he does lock onto an available hen, she hasn’t much hope of getting away, as he keeps up with and turns and turns and turns, no matter how far out the bird rakes.

There are no doubt other combinations that have proved good and others that are yet to found, however it took me many years of playing about, to find this balance and I hope by sharing this with you, it can be tried by you, and enjoyed by you.

Ps if anyone has other strains/families, we would love you to share them with us, equally if you have tried something different, a particular cross etc , please share it with our members.

Happy flying

Anthony
International/marketing liaison officer
All flying cropper club


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I thought a radar had something to do with a feral but obviously not.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Great Article Dublin boy, enlightened this thread
thanks!

p.s: here's the source page for those who want to see pictures : http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_anthony_kellers.htm


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## Iveman99 (Dec 30, 2013)

Looks like I've found the right thread. I recently got into the hobby a week ago when I bought what I thought were two racing pigeons but turns out they're pouters. They are a male and female, not paired when I got them but now they live together and I've seen the male mount the female. I did not get the pair with any breeding goals, only so they don't get lonely. Their typical day consists of me opening their cage in the morning, tossing them from my patio door a few times so they fly back to their nest boxes, and then they just hang out freely in my patio all day. I have a few questions and any help would be greatly appreciated.

How do I train them so they can fly outside but not fly back to the guy who sold them to me? He lives 5 houses away from me.

Can they be trained to race or at least fly home from miles away?
What does it mean when they "work"? What do they do when they're working?

Is there a minimum or maximum amount of time I should handle them so they become accustomed to me? 

Anything else anyone feels I need to know or any unsolicited advice is always welcome. Thanks again and Cheers!


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi again Iveman
you can settle your pouters to their new home by locking them up in your loft and releasing them after a while some people pluck or trim their wings feathers I don't do it anyway, the key is to breed them and have their offspring and train them btw working is using the pouter to lure others' pigeons I hope someone else can come by and show you how exactly is done, seems that you had a conversation with a pouters guy


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## Iveman99 (Dec 30, 2013)

How long is a while? A week, a month, several months? Furthermore I don't think I like the idea of stealing other people's birds. Is this a common practice?


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

well it's not technically stealing It's luring other pigeons using your trained pouter pigeon most are feral i.e belong to nobody .. It depends but for the minimum I'd recommend one month that will give them enough time to get familiar with their new place and maybe to breed


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## Iveman99 (Dec 30, 2013)

Omg I love these birds! They're way cooler than I imagined! I trained one to land on my hand already!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZnMLfgX8Ok&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Wow beautiful Video, that's a stunning Gaditano -I guess- with a large crop ...


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Ive had racers..rollers..tumblers..fancys... but I havent had any pigeons for awhile. But I know the poheon bug will not go away..
Ever
So I want to have just pouters. A good breed that work. And just a pair or two tops. Can you provide any information on them? Your experience with them and the best breed to work with?


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