# pigeon rehab question, any adive appreciated



## FRITZthePIGEON (Jun 25, 2005)

i found a baby pigeon that was all skin and bones about 4 months ago, i hand fed him for over a month and then weaned him onto pigeon feed. he lived in my spare bathroom because it gave him room to fly and was easy to clean (all hard/smooth surfaces) 
the reason i did all this myself is because i remember before when i had found a pigeon no rescue/rehab would accept it because they are considered a pest species
my original plan was to get him healthy and strong and then i was going to try and get him to join the pigeons that sometimes come to my small yard and use the birdbath and eat out of the birdfeeder. i was also hoping that he would return everyday to eat in my yard so i would not have to worry about him not being able to find food etc
well once the weather was nice enough (we have had very strange weather in my area for this time of year, always raining and windy) i began taking him outside and letting him explore. he becomes very clingy once we walked out the door, the farthest he went from me was to fly up on the roof for a few minutes, but once i go back in the house he comes after me. 
i was still hoping that he would join the pigeons that would sometimes come to my yard but i have not seen these pigeons now for over a month, and he has been with me for so long now that i doubt he would fly after them at this point. 
he cannot continue living in my bathroom because i need the bathroom back and also i feel it is unfair for him. he is a very smart bird and needs stimulation, and i think that if at all possible he should not have to live in a cage. i would really really like for him to live free and just return every night to my yard to sleep and eat. but i feel that it would be endangering him at this point to release him because he has become so trusting of humans. 
last week i tried teaching him to fly back to my yard from the street and he was mostly successful, but one time he flew into the neighbors yard and was waiting in front of their sliding glass door to be let in the house. this really scared me because i think if there had been a dog or a cat he may have been killed.
i am feeling guilty now because even though i have saved him from starvation i feel that i may have ruined his chances for a happy life flying free with other pigeons. 
i found a humane society rehab that accepts pigeons and i brought him there 2 days ago. they placed him in their aviary with 5 other pigeons and told me that if he wilds up they will release him with those pigeons, but if he does not then i will have to go pick him up or they will euthanize him. 
i felt so bad leaving him there (im going back tomorrow to check on him) he flew onto the mesh when i was leaving to try and come with me. 
even if he does 'wild up' and is able to be released with the others do you think that he will be able to find food and water? 
i am very distraught, i really love this little pigeon and dont know what the right thing to do is.
my yard is very small, i live in a townhouse, or else i would build him a large flight and perhaps get him a friend. but since i do not have this option any advice would be appreciated
i can go back any time and pick him up from the rehab
please help
-cheryl


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeons.com

Thank you for helping this needy baby, and spending time and energy to bring him back to health. It does sound like he got bonded to you, but that comes with 1 on 1 attention you gave him. 

Do not feel bad as you helped this baby who otherwise may have died. Maybe he will rehabilitate and join the others, maybe not. See how he does in the next week or two at the rehab facility. You do have time also if you change your mind.

Please check out the thread on ferals: "To release or not to release". It may help you to figure things out.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10874

Many people here have pet pigeons that were either handicapped or emotionally bonded to humans. Pigeons make wonderful pets and offer a lot of pleasure.

Treesa


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Cheryl,

And welcome to pigeontalk. Looks like you did a good job w/this pigeon in giving him the support he needed to flourish. 

Hand feeding this pij since it was a baby, would naturally produce the bonding you speak of. Seems like you both have feelings on the topic. 

There are many members here that have pigeons as house pets, and house them in a variety of shelters during the day, also providing a few hours of flight time a day.

If this feels OK to you, I would consider picking him up and bringing him back home. 

If you really prefer not to house this bird and it seems to dependant to be set loose in general, another alternative would be to bring him home and put him up for adoption (PT does have an adoption section you could post in)

Regardless, you could go back to the shelter and if there is a spot to observe w/out being observed, maybe that would help you make up your mind. 

Good luck to you in your decision,

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Pigeons can be very happy living in a home with humans. And they make great pets.
I always let my guys decide if they wanted to go or stay. A couple only stayed, the rest of my birds are unreleasable.
They are all happy and content.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi cheryl, 


The thing to understand here, is that a semi-hand-raised or a hand-raised Pigeon will need to have progressive sessions of socialization with the Wild ones in order to join them.

This is actually no different than it is when they are raised 'wild' for that matter, and learn to operate aside from their parents, to seperate emotionally from them, and to acquire the confidence through experience, for their independance to be found...to thence graze amiably amid the wild flock members, and to become members themselves.

Allways, a young one will be 'clingy' on the first time or two. Whether you or I raised them, or their biological parents did.

Feed the Wild Pigeons every day...

Bring yours out and set them onto a chair back or something or on your shoulder even, and just stand there with them. They will be 'nervous'...and the two of you just watch the Wild Birds as up close as you can, 10 feet or something, eight feet away even if they allow it...while they graze.

After a couple times, and it is fine to talk with them too, telling them how nice those wild Pigeons are and so on...and how good those Seeds look which everyone ie grazing on...after a couple times yours will fly down and stand there and tremble and not do much of anything but for some nervous preening maybe. If they do not fly down, you may set them down and walk away a little but remain near. Repeat as needed...

Pick them up, or call to them to follow, and go back in after a little while.

Next day, do the same, and they will begin pecking Seeds a little tentatively or nervously with the wild ones...

Bring them back in, or have them follow you in by calling them to do so.

Next session, they will likely start in right away, grazing with the wild ones, and, this time or the next, they will likely want to spend the night out of doors, but will not necessarily fly off to roost with the wild Pigeons. Just stand near bye off and on if you can, so they see you have not disappeared for good.

Call or bring them in if convenient, and if not, go call them in first thing in the morning. They will be tired and hungry and will not have slept.

Let them sleep and eat all they want for a couple days, and they will soon be pacing at the windows to go 'out'..

Bring them out or call them to come out, possibly best if in the afternoon sometime, and they will join the grazing activities of the wild Birds nicely, and elect to spend rest of the day doing so. Stand there near bye now and then so they can see you are present sometimes. Later, they will fly off with them to roost for the night, wherever it is the Wild Flock does so.

Next day, you will see them arrive with the wild Flock in the morning, or whenever it is that the Flock shows up for that grazing, and you will see that they are now a member of it, grazing with effeciency and ease amid their amiable fellows, and learning the 'School of Fish' modes of delicate group awares which govern the way flocks operate. 

It is unlikely now, at this stage of their socialization and 'attuned' awares with the Wild ones, that they will let you pick them up or get too near.



This process is easy to do, there is just some progressive sequence for it to be done right...and of course to understand something of the young Pigeon's points of view or developemental needs.

Popular hear-say, and misunderstanding what we are seeing, amid many vets and rehabbers and well-meaning others, seem to confuse the Bird having 'imprinted' on them, with how it is they themselves do not understand the quite reasonable needs of the Bird to gain familiarity and confidence in itself, and to do so with progressive experiences that their parent or surrogate parent is responsible to provide and carefully oversee.

Certainly, with Pigeons, there is no 'imprint' to ever worry about, even IF there is an "acceptance" by themof one's surrogate role as Parent pro-tem; there is only their engenuous and reasonable need for supervision and encouragement to learn and gain the confidences and experiences they need, emotionally, and in terms of knowledge and social skills, and, in the ways they need to have it occur... at the pace they can handle it.

Thrusting them suddenly into a Wild surround or Flock, in effect emotionally abandoning them in such a gesture to too much too soon, without progressive continuity and supervision to defer to their progresion in gradual learning, is never what occurs with their biological Parents, accept by accident of the youngster getting seperated from them somehow, and would effect just as much anxiety, insecurity, possible confusions and nervousness, or 'clinging', if their biological parents did so, as it would, or does, if we do so.

That is the short-condensed-course on that!  


Good luck..!


You should have no troubles doing it this way...especially if there is a convenient Wild Flock or group whom you may commence to feed every day, or cultivate to do so, and to visit as I outlined, with your youngster, to introduce them to eachother gently and in stages. Ideally in your own yard or somewhere close so it is easiest to bring or call them to come out, and similarly to come back in, and easy for you to supervise, as needed...

Moderators..?

May this be a 'sticky'?


Best wishes,  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## FRITZthePIGEON (Jun 25, 2005)

this would be my ideal solution but the problem is that the wild pigeons that would frequent my bird feeder have not been seen in over a month, i dont know how to get them to come back.
also when they did come they were very very skittish and even my standing in the window would scare them off.
do you think i should get fritz back from the rehab and bring him to a local park with many pigeons over a few sessions, or do you think he would become frightened, fly and get lost? 
i would really like him to know how to return home where there will always be food and water for him, the park i mentioned is about a five minute drive, do pigeons know how to return home or do they need practice?
i also worry about him thinking every sliding glass door he sees is friendly, but i think that maybe if he bonded with another pigeon or joined a group they would teach him what to fear and if something was threatening when they fly off he will follow and this way stay out of danger. does this sound plausible? or am i hoping for too much? 
i fear that if i introduce him to the birds at the park that he may keep his fondness for people and someone may hurt him.
advice?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

What you are describing Phil, would be a soft release, or a version of that. 

In Cheryl's situation, where she has a bird who is dependant on her, she would substitute a one-on-one dependancy for a group dependancy that the hand raised bird would then join. This could be problematic/confusing for the bird, as it still is relying on her for survival. It might be better if she truly wishes autonomy to look for a flock that has a measure of self-sufficiency, not relying on any one person's daily feedings. In the latter situation, the bird would learn from others in the flock about tracking down their own food for survival. 

Some regular visits to the flock, while feeding is of course helpful. Feeding the 
bird at the same time that food for the flock is put out, graduating to the carrier door being left open. This would mean witholding the feed @ home for at least a few hours before the "field trip". If the bird is inclined, it will eventually be naturally drawn towards socializing with the other birds. Or, it will choose to remain w/her. They do sometimes opt for the latter, and again, if not in the cards for Cheryl, then perhaps adoption.

There are variations to these soft release themes, and the individual in the moment sometimes sees the best approach.

fp


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## FRITZthePIGEON (Jun 25, 2005)

is there anyone in the san francisco bay area with a large aviary who would be willing to adopt fritz if necessary? he likes everyone, not just me. he is a grey pigeon with 2 black bars on his wings.
i will try everything else first, but this may be a last resort
i would keep him myself but he really cannot handle being in a cage, ive put him in one a few times and he always panics, but the aviary he is in now at the rehab he is fine with.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Cheryl,

I think it's a good situation that your bird is getting the chance to become familiar with spending time with other pigeons in the humane aviary. If the humane society feels he has not become "wild" enough or you feel uncertain that your bird will be able to survive on his own if released, it's comforting to know that you have the option of getting him back.

Both Phil and Feralpigeon have offered good advice to try in the event that you would like to try to encourage your bird to join a flock.

Just in case you have problems and you would like to consider keeping your bird as a pet in your home w/ perhaps flying time in your small yard daily, I have a link to a previous thread that discusses homemade indoor cages for pet pigeons. Within the thread are other links you can click on to see examples of these cages. The cages were inexpensive to build and do not take up too much room, but are attractive and roomy enough for a pigeon to be very comfortable...they almost resemble a small aviary.

Or, as was mentioned, we do have an adoption section here at Pigeon Talk.

I know you seem to feel very upset about the whole situation, but truthfully, you have quite a few good options to choose from. I'm sure you will be able to figure out what will be best for you and best for your bird.

Also, just wanted to thank you for doing such a good job caring for this pigeon and also for going the extra mile in trying to do what's best for him.

Linda

PS...I guess it would be more helpful if I provided the link!  

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10500


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi FritsthePigeon, fp, all me buds...



FtP, see if you may try and get your wild Flock to graze in your own backyard again if you can.

Put seeds out every day for them.

The park is too far away of course, for the best convenience, unless your Bird WILL come to you when you call them to do so. You could walk there if it is not too far, with your Bird on your shoulder, not use a 'carrier' which it will HATE being in, and begin the stages of progression from there the same as one would do otherwise.

Normally the youngster DOES follow the parent to go and graze somewhere, and they do not do so in 'carriers' of course...so...

Once assimilated into a Wild flock, (and being part of what I call, "The School of Fish" modes of awarenesses and responses AS flock members will...) it is unlikely your Bird ( or any other hand raised Pigeon) would be any more 'friendly' to 'people' than the rest of the flock is. 

Unless you have a situation in which Pigeons constantly reside indoors, or a constant turn-over, like I do, where, they know and can tell others that certain things are possible "there". When I used to let them come 'back' and build Nests in here, I had all sorts of handsome happy ferals also doing so till it got to be too much! None were so 'friendly' that they wanted to preen my eyebrows, but they would let me get quite close if I was sure and slow enough in how I did so. Or let me investigate their babys and so on, or even spell them a little break from their Nest sittings to they could go poo and stretch and get a drink or something.

One can make friends "with" feral Pigeons, and it is on their tems of logic that one may. This does not mean they will per-se abide "people"...

They will abide manners in their terms of them, and gestures in their terms of them...

This has been my experience anyway.

See if you can get the Wild ones to graze in your yard by feeding them every day.

Feed yours there, on the ground, from now on, as how they are to be fed, and do not feed them otherwise anymore than as that, unless raining or something! - to show the possible flying bye ferals that there IS Seed there and it is a nice grazing spot to try...and to accustom yours to grazing on the ground as wild Birds tend to do.

If there are too many roving or staulking Cats or Dogs or something for the Birds to elect to risk it, then, I guess you have little recourse but for the park. In which case, just do as many forays as you can, and do them late in the day so there is a natural cut-off of light soon arriveing....bring your Bird on your shoulder or have it fly with you as you walk...untill your Bird does not let you get near them to scoop them up anymore and wants to roost that night with the wild ones...which will likely not be too many forays, if all goes well.

Presently I have two Babys, well, youngsters anyway...and one of them is a me-feed-them age while the other is older and...anyway...and without my trying to train them or anything, they now come when called. I will remain the only source of Water, me offering it often through out the day. I feed them in a nipple and so on as usual. Sometimes they ask to be fed and I want to be dokng something else, so I say, "not now kiddos, but soon"...

When I do call them, they come running in all wing flapping and squeaking and so on, just like they do in the wild. Like wild parents, i do not necessarily wish to feed them every time they indicate they want to be fed.

Once we are making their forays amid the wild ones, I can call them at certain points in it if I feel they have had enough and should come back in. Even though they will be self feeding and good fliers by then, I will still feed them in the Hollow back of the baby Nipple some special 'soup' now and then to keep that thread of emotional gesture vivid for them. They do not need it, BUT it is a good way for them to have 'reason' and continuity TO come when called...and to feel re-assured I am still "with" them in a careing way...so...

Once I figured out these matters, none of mine ever pestered adult ferals to feed them in their initial forays to associate with the wild Flock, and, I never felt any effort to wean anyone. I just tried to do as close as I could, to what their biological parents do ( when they do them well that is )...which is for these transitions to be gradual and progressive while the assurance remains in deed and in presence, of me being 'there' for them, watching over them, feeding them sometimes in the 'baby' way, untill they are ready and of their own, elect to go and become autonomous flock members.

I never had one who did not do so.

Birds I have raised who can not be released oweing to injuries they recovered from which had compromised them, are a different story.

These stay with me forever, or, I find good homes for them where they will be loved and cared for.


If yours comes when called, that would be very good for those Park sojournes.

You did a great job with this one and you have learned a lot..!

The Bird has benifited and been allowed, for your intervention, to Live and to grow up this far. A very lucky Bird to have found you!

Cultivating a relation with the Wild Flock, ideally in your backyard, will allow you to have future progressions of raising other orphans if you wished to do so, who otherwise have no hope or recourse, and, to release them properly when the are ready to go through the stages. 

If I took any of us on this list, or people from anywhere for that matter, or even some 'nascar' celebrity, and put them behind the Wheel say of a five ton GMC Truck of WW One vintage, I could say, in about ten seconds, that none of them elected to learn how-to-drive.

Or, I could show anyone pretty much, how TO 'drive' something new to them, like that old Truck...if we went through some steps and phases and trying things one or two things at a time to learn to know what is what.


The difference is not that they elect NOT to 'drive', as a interpolated fatalistic misconstruence of their 'reaction', the difference is for me to know what they are up against in terms of their needing the steps and progressions to be taken positively so it is not all-at-once and confuseing or intimidating as a transition.

Most people claim they DO know-how-to-drive, but damned few people living could get in and drive a truely old, large Truck right then and there.

Just because they are 'people' does not mean they can learn 'instantly', any more than a Pigeon can...


Those Pigeons who remain intimidated by the outside world, are not accuritely spoken of as "Well, he just wanted to stay with me!!!!"


Any more than someone thrust into a new and complicated situation who does not master it, right-then-and-there, like with my Truck example, should be spoken of as "Well
I guess they just wanted to walk and not to learn to drive...they really must like walking better, and I left it up to them to decide..."

Given the choice, given the choice in the right progressive, positive steps, I doubt any Pigeon any one ever raised, would elect to stay and not to 'go'.

This does not mean they did not love us, this does not mean we did not love them.

It means, we did...

And knew how to, as well...

Learning how-to is some of the task we all face to work with these wonderful Birds.

The closer we can get to "how" their parents would do it, (assumeing their parents as healthy sane able ones!) the cleaner and happier and more elegant and complete and successful it all is, for them and for us 'as' their surrogate or foster parents...

Best wishes...  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi fp,


Just a fast thought...

All the babys I ever raised, whether Pigeons or Sparrows or what, were 'dependant' on me and they did not have much choice in the matter!

They were "Babys"...

I of course made lots of mistakes in every way along-the-way....but, overall, I understood their innate disposition to grow up, and, in various ways, I allways let them do so.

Their 'dependance' which would have been on their biological parents, occurs with us as a condition of their state of affairs AS Babys, and then as youngsters, who look to us to oversee their growth and developement on all fronts. This is our 'job'.

They will not on their own tend to fly off and join a flock...we must oversee that, and guide it in effect, with our presence and judgement and communications with them, just as their biologic parents do, or would.

As the youngsters follow their parents to go and graze, so too may we have ours follow us to go and graze with the wild Birds somewhere.

Traffic, distance, City conditions and so on , can mess this nice ideal up badly!

Most feral Pigeons elect to build Nests and raise their Babys, not too far from their prefered grazing places.

But the basic form or formula is 'there' if we want it.



I know no really good 'answers' if someone lives in an upper storey appartment, in a city, with no wild flock anywhere near bye...other than to keep it as a pet, or find someone who can assimilate it somehow into their own Birds, for it to then, as an older adolescent or young adult, elect to assume choices of it's own then, if allowed to do so.

Their sense of what is or is not a flock, is theirs. Someone's domestic bunch, to them, is a flock which in their view of it, they might elect or wish to join, and which might invite them to join, too. This does not mean they necessarily will stay with it of course. If allowed to fly, and graze variously where others graze, and to have occasions of meeting other Birds from other flocks, they might join that other flock.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Cheryl,

Thank you again for concern over this well rehabilited youngster and his future.

Do not worry about the bird at this time, as he is being given a chance to return to the wild and he will be evaluated based on all his skills, and needs. 

We will help you in any way we can, whether he is releasable or not, time will tell. Please let us hear from you as to the conclusion one way or another.

Treesa


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