# Broken Shoulder



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Ok I have a young pigeon with a broken shoulder, at first I didn't think so but it is hanging way down and she isn't moving it. I stopped the bleeding. It is a little swollen in the joint. I don't know what happened to it could have been a hawk not sure but I do know this that wing is going to have to come off one way or another. My next dilema is asking the vet to take it off and then finding a home for her. She still squeaks she is so cute just as sweet as can be. I am wondering if I can get the vet to take it off for free as I have never asked her for anything like this before. Should I start her on antibiotics? I have amoxicillian 250 mg capsules. I am just scared that if she has an infection starting from her injury that it could do her in. She is very thin as well. Only weighing in at 228 grams. Keel is starting to get sharp. If anyone here wants a pigeon after she has her wing taken off let me.


Cindy


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, Cindy, could you describe the injury more? Why do you think it needs to come off?

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you go here, study the skeletal drawings and then explain a little further where the actual wound is and a little more about it?

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Cindy,
Thank you for taking this little squeaker under 'your' wing.  

Can you post a picture of the injured wing?

Cindy


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

It's either the glenoid fossa or the humerous. It is dangling and started to bleed slightly again. If the wing can't be saved rather than letting it heal hanging down I was wondering if she would take it off. If she did the cost is what I am wondering about as I can't afford it, super sweet baby. I will get Darren to take a pic of it including underneithe the wing itself.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It looks more is involved than just the humerus. It looks like it's below the elbow (joint of the radius/ulna with the humerus) as well. Frankly, I'd tape it all up, with the wingtip taped to the tail as well and see how it goes. I've got one in that was about that bad and didn't have the wing taken off. It took two or three months to heal pretty well although the humerus resulted in a non-union. I think that the vet might be able to rejoin it and then that bird might actually be able to fly again.

So, what I'd push for is to give the wing a chance to heal. If it doesn't start rotting then it might not need to be amputated.

Pidgey


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Ok In the first pic the black and blue area looks like a gathering of blood just leave it? Right now it is wrapped to her side so should I rewrap it to the tip? Hopefully it is saveable. She is so sweet. Loves to cuddle and sleep in my lap. She is quite thin as well. Drinks alot of water. Should I start her on antibiotics. I have amoxicillin 500mg capsules and also SMZ-TMP 15ml 

Thanks Pidgey


Cindy


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Use the SMZ-TMP (Trimethoprim/Sulfamethazine or Sulfamethoxazole?) for this one--it works well in necrotic tissue and due to the interruption of the circulation, it could go bad. That's a good one for that kind of thing. Do you know how to dose it? Can you post all the stuff on the medication's package?

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cindy, if your vet has an email address, why not email the photos to her
and ask for some pain medication (not anti-inflamatory) for the bird's wing? 
Perhaps something like Butorphanol....Vet's sometimes have a tax write off
"Wildlife" account that they can charge their services to when helping at
reduced prices or for free, she may even see the bird @ no charge if
she saw the pics. It's worth a try.

fp


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Good luck with her, Cindy, she sure does look like a sweetie. Thanks for taking care of her and I hope it all works out for you both.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well she doesn't have an e-mail address and won't be in till Thursday. Everything I told is what is on the package. 

Cindy


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I just seen the pigeons wing in the sunlight and on top of the wing it has green under the wing does that mean it has something aweful? Like Gangorine? Now I am getting very concerned about things. How much Of the SMZ med should I give her? also how often? 


Cindy


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cindy, earlier I was referring to getting a pain medication for the bird, I 
realize that you don't currently have any on hand. You would have to ask 
the vet for a prescription.

Who is the manufacturer of the SMZ-TMP? Sounds like you have a 15ml
bottle of it?

The green you are seeing could well be bruising.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Bruises in birds (pigeons, at least) turn a darkish green after a couple of days or so. It's due to the buildup of biliverdin, which is the name of the green pigment.

There's gotta' be something else on that bottle of Trimethoprim/Sulfa or you must have gotten it from somebody who might have more info on theirs?

Pidgey


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Pidgey got the bottle from the vet she told me to keep it on hand so I wouldn't have to keep running in and getting more. She did tell me to use .15 for a med size bird from rehabbing. Does this help? 


Cindy


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cindy, when did you take this bird in?

fp


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> Hi Pidgey got the bottle from the vet she told me to keep it on hand so I wouldn't have to keep running in and getting more. She did tell me to use .15 for a med size bird from rehabbing. Does this help?
> 
> 
> Cindy


It doesn't give the concentration of the medication, but you could call for this
info tomorrow. Even though the bird is a smaller one, you could start the
bird off w/.15 for now.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, sounds like it means to use 0.15 milliliters at a whack for a medium-sized pigeon, then, huh? Was that once a day, twice a day... ?

Pidgey


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

2 times a day. Actually I used it for a robin and starling. 

Cindy


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean that's what's meant for a "medium-sized" bird?

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cindy, if you can, please try and get some pain medication for this bird.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I just looked 'em up--starlings and robins are about 60 to 90 grams. You've already said that this bird is 228 grams so it'd be about three times that for a dose if you're going to go by that. I don't like doing that but we can do a little more looking for a bit...

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd think that the vet would have calculated for the 90gram weight as opposed
to the 60 gram weight. If you take into consideration a heavier 'loading' dose,
three times would seem to be fine at least until Cindy could get verification
of the concentration which should be on file at the vets. Is the office open
if she's not there, Cindy?

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This might be the stuff:

http://www.valleyvet.com/pet-miscellaneous-rx/SMZTMP-Oral-Suspension

(Click on the picture of the bottle and it gets readable, eventually)

On another webpage I saw it's "SMZ-TMP Oral Suspension 200 mg SMZ/40 mg TMP - 16 oz." This one says that it's the 200/40 for 1 Teaspoon (5 milliliters) so we can probably go by that to figure out a dosing. In the CLINICAL AVIAN MEDICINE formulary, it gives pigeons at 120 mg/kg, QD as the dosing.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

My vets compound the meds at their office. Cindy would do well to find out
for certain.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Using that, the daily dose for a pigeon would be 0.57 milliliters, I guess divided out during the day however you'd like. That sounds pretty well in keeping for what we'd figured assuming that the 0.15 milliliter dosing for starlings and robins.

Pidgey


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

ok you two should I just start off with 1.5 mg until I get ahold of the vet tomorrow, well there will be a different vet but maybe she or he can help me out. 

Cindy


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'd probably go with 0.20 milliliters, 3 times per day.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> ok you two should I just start off with 1.5 mg until I get ahold of the vet tomorrow, well there will be a different vet but maybe she or he can help me out.
> 
> Cindy


You can assume the dose based on the average weight of starlings and robins
to get some meds in the blood stream and verify the concentration tomorrow.
You could triple the initial dose listed on the bottle and call in the morning. Hopefully a note was made in your file regarding the TMP/SMZ concentration. Another vet should be able to help. Please ask for pain meds when you call.

fp


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Thanks FP for your help I just got her in yesterday evening. Apparently the guys who found her wanted to clobber her in the head with a brick cause they don't like the pigeons. So I don't think it is a old break but fairly new.


Cindy


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, due to the formation of that green look that you're talking about, it's at least a couple of days old. That's actually visible in the one picture.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's a past post where I posted a link to another bird with a hurt wing with that funny color of bruise:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=76844&postcount=26

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> Thanks FP for your help I just got her in yesterday evening. Apparently the guys who found her wanted to clobber her in the head with a brick cause they don't like the pigeons. So I don't think it is a old break but fairly new.
> 
> 
> Cindy


Well, new to you, but the injury most likely a couple of days along to have 
the bruising surfacing like this....so we don't know how long the bird has
been like this w/certainty except to say within a range.

fp


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

That is exactly what the color looks like. Kind of gross looking. I hope that when I finally get the bird into the Drs. after this long she can save the wing and that it hasn't bended in the wrong position. Can that happen? 

Cindy


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> That is exactly what the color looks like. Kind of gross looking. I hope that when I finally get the bird into the Drs. after this long she can save the wing and that it hasn't bended in the wrong position. Can that happen?
> 
> Cindy


They can knit in an incorrect alignment, w/a crushing wound/break, the bone
can lose blood supply. Glad the bird will be going in....

fp


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Well called the vet this morning first thing and the earliest I can get her in is Thursday morning. Actually she is getting ready to go on vacation and she leaves on Friday so I got lucky there becauseI caught her before she leaves. Umm.... I need to find a home for her ASAP if her wing can't be saved as I just don't have the extra room right now. I know of 1 possibly 2 people who want an inside pigeon. Hopefully she won't need to be put down or any or that nasty stuff. 

Cindy


----------

