# Feral Pigeons as homers?



## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

So my town has a pigeon problem I of course love them and hate to see them poisened and killed in other ways. In some of the older buildings there are lots of birds and I have got permission to go and get some pigeons from them. If I bred these ferals would their offsping have a homing ability I could selectively breed for and work with? 

( I understand the birds i would capture would not have homing ability due to their instinct to go to their original home.)


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Feral pigeons do have SOME homing ability. However it isn't as good as the homing ability of racing pigeons since there's a lot of selective breeding involved in racing pigeons. 

Nonetheless, over time you could strengthen this homing ability in feral pigeons by doing selective breeding. 

Unlike racers you'll probably have to "baby" the young birds a lot more. Take small steps in increasing the distance so you don't lose birds right off the bat. If you just want to keep them as pets thats perfectly fine. 

You may not get good results right away but what you would want to do is save the birds that end up flying good or better than their parents. (Every generation should be better than the last.)

But remember that in doing so you'll produce lots of pigeons along the way which just won't cut long distance training so something to consider is if doing this will even help the current situation?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Painted Skies Loft said:


> So my town has a pigeon problem I of course love them and hate to see them poisened and killed in other ways. In some of the older buildings there are lots of birds and I have got permission to go and get some pigeons from them. If I bred these ferals would their offsping have a homing ability I could selectively breed for and work with?
> 
> ( I understand the birds i would capture would not have homing ability due to their instinct to go to their original home.)


my advice would be if you want homers get purebred homers. I think there are enough feral hatched pigeons around why breed more, if you got out of pigeons they would be hard to place and then what? more back on the street? homing pigeons that are banded can be sold or gifted allot easier. BUT! last but not least, giving these birds a loft would be a nice gift to them with regular food and a dry home, just use fake eggs.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

buy pure homers and add some ferals to the flock and toss train them together, maybe you'll get a result but as revolution lofts and spirit said there are already so many of feral pigeons regarded as "pests" in the society so why do you want to breed more? it's good to find them a shelter but what if you decided to quit the hobby? I'm just saying it's all up to you.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

With ferals you are taking a real gamble as far as homing ability. Homers do make up a lot of the blood of ferals but plenty of other breeds have been thrown into the mix. Also, they have not been selectively bred for longer distances and faster times like racing homers have. So by far, a real homer will be your best bet.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

I think It would be a fun project that is my motivation. This is how all of my great uncles got homers, from feral birds... I really want to see what could come of this and to maybe refine them down from their present state. Let the birds that survive their tosses reproduce and pass on their intelligence and natural ability, where the birds that dont survive obviously don't thus creating a (slightly slightly) better bloodline than before. Of course while keeping careful records of parents and their good/bad offspring. Now im not out anything by doing this really... am I? Good homers cost money that could potentially add up to nothing, as I am young and inexperienced. Plus I am very interested in genes and also in seeing if what my great uncles say is true. It will be a task but knowledge is power and I love my birds. I am literally THE ONLY ONE IN MY COUNTY that has even heard of "flying pigeons for fun." But to shine some light on things I want to test things out and see if I can make what most people hate something better. It's a long shot but I think I can do it.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

by the way thank you shorty2 I am currently working on those things you suggested


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

I did this as a kid back in the 60's in the Miami area because, even though there were several clubs and a large combine, none of the adults in those clubs were willing to help a kid get started. I used to climb train bridges, feed bins, etc. looking for baby ferals. I even banded a few that were small enough in the nests and went back later to collect them. I had a few that ended up being good race birds. It's all a crap shoot but it is also fun and that's what racing is supposed to be. Even if you don't join a club, it's still fun taking them off and seeing them come home from distances. The guy at the feed store allowed me to trap as many birds as I wanted and I ended up with some pretty awesome looking birds (all different colors and builds).


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

I say go for it 
everyone has his own way to start ,that could be your start in the pigeon world.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Alot of people first pigeons was fearls. Then moved on there chosen breeds. NOW You can find many a person that would give you some race bred birds. AND if you catching freals You will wonder across and lost race bird from time to time. Do waht you think you need to for now And do a little checking around You would be surprised there is parobaly some one around your area that keeps pigeons


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I think people are missing the point here, It is not about obtaining good birds, Its about the experimental process of selecting and improving from a base or a starting point,

I say go for it, It will be fun. I am always on the look out for a nest I can reach so I can band some ferals and race them, I believe the ferals where I live have already been selected into flying machines due to the long distances they fly daily for food.


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Exactly ferals are already built ! They are the worlds best survivors I think. They have to work to survive this day in age...


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Ferals are way easier to resettle than Homers.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

I Have not heard anyone talk about bringing disease into your loft with ferrells???Something to think about!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I only know of one story where the feral pigeons came back from 50 miles, I have not heard any stories of how they perform at longer distances, perhaps someone has some experience and can enlighten.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

I have a commie/feral that has been with my YB team since early June, showed up with them from a 5 mile toss and never left. He is out to 45 miles with them, shows up considerably later but he knows the way back. He actually has turned into a pretty good dropper. I can toss him when the others are flying and he will make one or two passes and go straight to the trap.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

pigeonjim said:


> I Have not heard anyone talk about bringing disease into your loft with ferrells???Something to think about!!


In my case the bird was quarantined for 30 days. Vaccinated for PMV, wormed and treated with 4 -1 for any possible extras going on. Not a bird that I would ever consider using in any sort of breeding program, just turned into the wifes pet. 

I would think in some cases birds with outside influence could help with building up some immunities to things that they might find while while crating with birds from other lofts. But this also could be a fine line to walk.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

All sounds good and might really be true! *But*, the older and wiser folks who have already been there and done that say don't waste your time and money. One old guy that has helped me said, if I want to waste money on an wore out old bird, give it to him!! lol


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

I also raise roller pigeons but they dont perform that well... they fly for long amounts of time and are intelligent and have escaped many hawk attacks. I haven't lost a bird yet (and these are coopers we are talking about! ) they do range from time to time as well now that I think about it but they are all beautiful birds. I plan to get squabs mostly but if there happen to be some adults I like I may snatch them too. They are old buildings just fillllllllllled with birds... And yes I know this about the adults bieng prisoners but their young have a purpose. My dad loves helping me with the pigeons too and im sure we would have fun working with them. I will look into a timing system as I have some money from my job this summer. Would crossing rollers with homers be good or bad given the details above?


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## Painted Skies Loft (Sep 24, 2012)

Of course after they are medicated and Quarintined properly...


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Well, sounds like a good Idea ...

If you cross a Homer to a roller it won't home Good and won't roll at all, what is your purpose ?


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

As a young child I grew up in a city, I came from a broken home and didn't have a lot of money. I as well as other boys my age started with feral birds that we had caught or robbed from a nest under a railroad tresses. We all had pigeon coops in the alleys behind various garages made of chicken wire and peach crates. At any one time I personally had 25 to 30 birds. Never paid attention to what sex they were. But chicks did manage to come from someplace.

As I said we didn't have a lot of money and I grew up thinking that everyone ate pigeons' well until high school where the idea of eating pigeon was met with opposition.

I am older now and somewhat wiser and as I read though this forum words of wits I wonder how it is that I was able to grow up eating feral pigeons or "FLYING RATS" as there called today. My mother "COOKED"; I say it again, my mother "COOKED" them as well as other mother's and none of us kids got sick nor died from a dinner of fresh squab or pigeon breast and some pork and beans.

I have one other question that I cannot seem to find the answer to and it is;

What are pigeons called after 3 or 4 or more generations. I am on my third generation of ferals that I caught with a hand held fish net from a couple of local parks. I kept the biggest and what I seemed the most fit and ate the rest. I let my birds fly twice a day like clock work unless there is bad weather. And they all come home to roost; each and every one. So if I started with feral's do I still have feral's; when does a pigeon become a homer.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

wthilgen said:


> I have one other question that I cannot seem to find the answer to and it is;
> 
> What are pigeons called after 3 or 4 or more generations. I am on my third generation of ferals that I caught with a hand held fish net from a couple of local parks. I kept the biggest and what I seemed the most fit and ate the rest. I let my birds fly twice a day like clock work unless there is bad weather. And they all come home to roost; each and every one. So if I started with feral's do I still have feral's; when does a pigeon become a homer.


A Homer is a breed, a feral is not , it's a pigeon that gone wild!
a large number of feral pigeons if not all of them are descending of the homing breed, and to add all pigeons breeds have the homing instinct it vary from a breed to another but it's there.


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

Ok, if I started with feral's and this is the third generation, what do I have now. I am the only one in Mazatlan, Sinaloa, Mexico near as I can tell who have pigeons in a loft or I think it is called a kit. I have been here 2 years and haven't seen any kits flying anywhere except mine. I am curious what kind of birds I now have.

Like you said all pigeons had to start somewhere at what point did they become something else?


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wthilgen said:


> Ok, if I started with feral's and this is the third generation, what do I have now. I am the only one in Mazatlan, Sinaloa, Mexico near as I can tell who have pigeons in a loft or I think it is called a kit. I have been here 2 years and haven't seen any kits flying anywhere except mine. I am curious what kind of birds I now have.
> 
> Like you said all pigeons had to start somewhere at what point did they become something else?


Well they would not be ferals now. But they still would be common pigeons. That is a general name they have been called for many years. Birds that have been cultived away from the common type. rather they be race type. or any of the show type. Have taken on a totaly different look. NOW let to they own over time most will go backwards. That is the way of nature. So the only thing I would call them is commons. AND alot of people started with the wild type. And moved onto there chosen breed. Myself included. NOW please refrain from talking about eating pigeon on this forum. Even though you were being honest. It is not met well here. There are several pigeon breeders in mexico. And we did have a member here that raised white homers from mexico. I know several people who have taken plenty of race birds to mexico for there relitives and friends to have and race.


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

Thank You, now I know what to call my birds.


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## klondike goldie (Apr 20, 2009)

It don't cost any more to feed a race horse than it does to feed a mule, it all depends on what you want to keep.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Thank you all, I have enjoyed this thread!!


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## RockPigeon<3er (Aug 2, 2012)

I started off with ferals  they're a joy, and a lot hardier,,too. Better at defending off diseases - right now a feral & homer are crossing, And I'm happy, they won't be as good homers but will be a lot better in terms of hardy ness, which is very much needed.
I'd say go for it, I got my first ferals by picking out the 'pretty' ones from a friend who trapped them.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

For what it is worth. People that study and know animals, say that pigeons are the most adaptable animals on the planet. They are on every continent except Antarctica.

As to your "plan". Would you take some scrap metal and try to invent and build your own car? Or would you just buy a car?

It could be fun, but what would the goal and final outcome be, if you are successful? Pigeons that can home well?

Ha Ha. I have those already. They are cheap and plentiful. Most pigeon people have more than they care to have.

Reinventing the wheel could be fun though. So good luck in the endeavor. Ha Ha


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

conditionfreak said:


> For what it is worth. People that study and know animals, say that pigeons are the most adaptable animals on the planet. They are on every continent except Antarctica.
> 
> As to your "plan". Would you take some scrap metal and try to invent and build your own car? Or would you just buy a car?
> 
> ...


That is my point , but everyone is free If he wants to start with ferals let him go for it, I did it myself and eventually I added Good bloodline homers


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

shorty2 said:


> Pigeons were created by mother nature with a huge influence from birds of prey. Humans later domesticated them for various purposes including a food source. Lots of people toss around names of the various bloodlines of birds they have, so I have looked around at what is the accepted standard for creating your own blood line, what is the point you can call them yours with your own name.
> 
> To the best I have been able to find, seems like fanciers accept a new bloodline name after the 4th generation. wthilgen is at his 4th generation, by this standard the next round of babies are his bloodline.
> 
> Painted Skies is just getting started, after he gets past the 4th generation, they would be his own bloodline. I don't know about everyone else, but I certainly would much prefer to call his birds "Painted Sky" pigeons over the more obvious and true bloodline name: "Cooper Chow"


Perhaps you need to look some more. As to bloodline And the birds being named. QUALITY is and has been the goal of any person breeding certion lines of pigeon. breeds. IT takes years. And then only after the person has been sucsessful And other people have bought and done well with there birds do some people start calling those birds by the person name. And most often NEVER the person who developed there set Qualitys. A common pigeon Is a standard name for what people call ferals ,barn pigeons ect. They are the wild state birds And would need to be cultivated from the so called beging point all over agin. Although any person is welcome to keep them. Just do not expect they will develop in a short time But they are just as fun to keep as any pigeon If the person wishes to do so. But there are just so many breeds out there that have been develpoed and improved on for over a 100 years. And well not many people live over a hundred years to develop certion needs.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Spam is frowned upon here. Buy ad space for your business. Or at the very least. Put your information in the "For Sale" section of this web site.


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

Like I said I am on my 4th gen birds, and like the generations that came before, none will mated with the previous gen. I am doing some selective breeding of my own and maybe in a hundred years I'll have a generation of racing birds that will be worth big $$$. Then again maybe not.

This generation I plan to start teaching my flock to return home from somewhere other than the loft. Gonna start at one kilo and then two etc. etc. etc.

As far as health and welfare go, I've read that expensive birds don't always come home during a race and that they fall prey to the same things that lesser birds fall prey to. I am on a comfortable retirement income but raising high dollar racers is out of the questions. I'd much rather lose a so called inferior pigeon at this point in the sport than invest big bucks in a professional bird and have it fall prey to god knows what.

For me it's a hobby, I can kill countless hours in the loft and the wife doesn't complain. And like I said, in a hundred years; well, who knows.


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

I have read a lot over the last few weeks since finding this site and I see the term "Blood Line" used quite often. I am curious, excuse my ignorance; but at what point is a pigeon considered to be a Pure Bread.

I mean; although I am German and my children's mother is German/Irish our children call themselves "Norther European". According to scientist, life began on the Serengeti so if one wants to go back far enough. I recon we are all Africans; Right.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

wthilgen said:


> I mean; although I am German and my children's mother is German/Irish our children call themselves "Norther European". According to scientist, life began on the Serengeti so if one wants to go back far enough. I recon we are all Africans; Right.


there is no such thing as pure race.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wthilgen said:


> Like I said I am on my 4th gen birds, and like the generations that came before, none will mated with the previous gen. I am doing some selective breeding of my own and maybe in a hundred years I'll have a generation of racing birds that will be worth big $$$. Then again maybe not.
> 
> This generation I plan to start teaching my flock to return home from somewhere other than the loft. Gonna start at one kilo and then two etc. etc. etc.
> 
> ...


There are countless people out there Willing to give people a start in Race bred birds. The birds do not have to be the high dollar birds. INFACT with race birds Very few of those high dollar birds That are really GOOD birds are around. And often some are bred more for MONEY then for getting good birds. As many of the young are sold That are not any better then a person already has. . But As I said you can find race birds for frewe OR very cheap. But as long as you enjoy what birds you have That is what counts.


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## wthilgen (Oct 9, 2013)

In the two years I've been here, I can find no one that has a loft. I have found three vacant lofts here. There conditions were so bad I dare not mentioned here for fear of offending someone. I managed to get permission from the would be new owners (none of which knew they were even on their roof tops) to disassemble them. The wood was snatched up by locals and I assumed burned. The remains were put into paper bags (lots of them) and in so much as I am originally from Minnesota, I gave them all a Viking burial. There are no fanciers here, 'cept me.


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