# Elton Dinga



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

This guy is for real. He just won the Spirit Of Colorado One loft race again. Now I keep saying that if you want to start a loft off right, get a few from this guy. The link follows. 

http://spiritofcoloradoloft.com/

Randy


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> This guy is for real. He just won the Spirit Of Colorado One loft race again. Now I keep saying that if you want to start a loft off right, get a few from this guy. The link follows.
> 
> http://spiritofcoloradoloft.com/
> 
> Randy


i bet that just shot his prices up thru the roof too lol thanks for sharing this though,it always helps people to know what they shopuld be looking for ..thanks


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## Young Bird (May 2, 2007)

I heard of this guy last year he has done well in a few one loft races


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

When you spend a bit of time and look into Elton and his foundation, you see that he is for real. He started with some of the best birds in the world, and worked them into a winning team. If he is in the race, he will be near the top. He will also invest enough birds in the race to give himself a good chance.

http://www.startailpigeons.hypermart.net/

Randy


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I see his pigeons for sale occasionally on ipigeon.com.


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## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

wonderloft right, remember seeing his ad in one of the magazines.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> This guy is for real. He just won the Spirit Of Colorado One loft race again. Now I keep saying that if you want to start a loft off right, get a few from this guy. The link follows.
> 
> http://spiritofcoloradoloft.com/
> 
> Randy


Gee....Randy...this is really starting to worry me, we are agreeing more and more. 

Last year at the Winners Cup, by best two entries and cash winner, was the result of crossing a SFL American Ace 145 x a Dinga Bird. I don't think I ever publicly admitted that, because for one thing, my ego was involved, and perhaps more importantly, I wanted to buy up some more before the prices caught up with reality.

IMHO, once a fancier starts to focus on the commercial side, and simply selling all he can produce, the quality goes down, and you end up with typical pigeons. Then you move from a real performance based family line, and move into slick ads and pretty pedigrees. And then the fancier becomes simply another pigeon peddler. This guy has flown in a lot of races, and he appears to be winning out of turn. 

But, do yourselves a favor, and don't go broadcasting it to everyone in your club and combine. If you want to buy some, fine, but don't go blabbing everywhere what you went and did.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

I think warren is trying to say be careful who you tell cuz there are so many theives amongst us .. and I do agree ,when you got it going on people are always trying to dip i one way or another so be very careful


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Winner of a one loft race with 87 birds in the race does not impress me.* GEORGE


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have been talking Elton up for a few years now. When people ask me where I would get birds, Elton's name comes up. We are amongst friends in the post. I think ACE talked to him last year. Hard man to understand. 

I think with all the "how to build a strain" and whos birds are best. Pointing out what Elton has is soley to help those in the post. 

If we want to learn from him, we could go to his source, Vercammen and Schearleakens. 

I am not a man to keep secrets and hoard birds. My thoughts here are that if I give an honest man my best, I will get his best in return. A great way to build stock is to trade and barter. 

I am not publishing anything most good fanciers who read the race results already know. Elton is a force to recon with. There are other fanciers out there that I like. Like Ganus, Clausing, etc. Every once in a while someone comes along and kicks everyones butt. He has a good family of birds. Just think many of us will have Dinga birds in our lofts like we have GFL birds. If they kick your butt, get some birds from them. 

I am also following Vern's bird who was 2nd in the points with two good finishes. They have only posted three birds. 

Randy


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I have been talking Elton up for a few years now. When people ask me where I would get birds, Elton's name comes up. We are amongst friends in the post. I think ACE talked to him last year. Hard man to understand.
> 
> I think with all the "how to build a strain" and whos birds are best. Pointing out what Elton has is soley to help those in the post.
> 
> ...


thats rigth vercammen and schealeakens blood.... they are medium and very stucky birds lots of muscle.... maan those birds well go up high again....


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Gee....Randy...this is really starting to worry me, we are agreeing more and more.
> 
> Last year at the Winners Cup, by best two entries and cash winner, was the result of crossing a SFL American Ace 145 x a Dinga Bird. I don't think I ever publicly admitted that, because for one thing, my ego was involved, and perhaps more importantly, I wanted to buy up some more before the prices caught up with reality.
> 
> ...


I like how you put it Warren. Too many a times, there are way too many pigeon peddlers in our sport (some call it a business). I once wasted $300 on a cock that was already nine years old. He had seen his better days. But the seller "guranteed" me that the bird would produce. In the three years that I had him, I mated him with four different hens and got nothing! 

I also agree on the statement that if you like something, buy it and test it out. But don't spread your words like wildfire. Soons it becomes a locust fest and that's when things get watered-down.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> This guy is for real. He just won the Spirit Of Colorado One loft race again. Now I keep saying that if you want to start a loft off right, get a few from this guy. The link follows.
> 
> http://spiritofcoloradoloft.com/
> 
> Randy


Am I missing something here? I see Elton as 12th place not winning on the 300. The winner is posted as Skeets and Lighthouse. Are you refering to the training toss of 9-3? I see he was 1 of 3 birds clocked in the same seconds on that toss. On the 150 he is shown as 6th place and on the 200 he is shown as taking 64th place. Am I a not reading something correct????


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

whitesnmore said:


> Am I missing something here? I see Elton as 12th place not winning on the 300. The winner is posted as Skeets and Lighthouse. Are you refering to the training toss of 9-3? I see he was 1 of 3 birds clocked in the same seconds on that toss. On the 150 he is shown as 6th place and on the 200 he is shown as taking 64th place. Am I a not reading something correct????


UMMMM....that's what I see too??


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

whitesnmore said:


> Am I missing something here? I see Elton as 12th place not winning on the 300. The winner is posted as Skeets and Lighthouse. Are you refering to the training toss of 9-3? I see he was 1 of 3 birds clocked in the same seconds on that toss. On the 150 he is shown as 6th place and on the 200 he is shown as taking 64th place. Am I a not reading something correct????


Yes I read it wrong yesterday when just the band numbers were present. My bad.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

george simon said:


> *Winner of a one loft race with 87 birds in the race does not impress me.* GEORGE


Yes I agree. And being that he did not actually win, it makes it even less impressive. On the other hand you cannot judge a fancier by one race alone. Elton has a good one loft record and quality birds. I will follow his record throughout the season.


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Yes I read it wrong yesterday when just the band numbers were present. My bad.


Hehehe... I could have seen the ads already

"Simply 1st place, not just equal 1st"

The guy must have some good birds or he wouldn't have 49 birds in the
World Ace Challenge ... or he has a lot of dough or has something to prove...

At entry fees of 1000, 500, and 250 per bird for each of the races.... pshew !!!


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

george simon said:


> *Winner of a one loft race with 87 birds in the race does not impress me.* GEORGE


"Impress me"

I had a guy tell me he had two on the first drop in a one loft race. I said to him "quite impressive". After looking up the results, there were 40 birds in the race and 24 on the first drop.

Then the issue is a one loft race that cannot get birds consistently home on the 200 and 300 year after year... and you have one or two birds show up on a shortened 300 ... how impressive is that when put in perspective?


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

2 me Hok Jos Vercammen's birds are "some" world class pigeons. Look at his results, i think they speak for themselves. Im sure they are a big part of Mr.Dinga success. Also Ace 4 Line and OrleandDoffer/Creilman from the Mattens Blood.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

None the less. We can bash the Spirit race all we want. But the winner is going home with 5K in his pocket and a bit if not insignificant bragging rights. Let's try and tell him that the race was not important. 

A lot goes into marketing those big races. Ganus, Dinga, not to mention VV enter as many birds as they can afford to try and buy the race. Once you win the World Ace or SA Million race, your stock goes through the roof. If you look more closely there are also Foreign investors buying up big name birds. These guys may have 30 birds in the race. 

Randy


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

How many birds did koopman send to south africa 50-60? But, i dont think that its necessarily buying the race because there are 5000+pigeons but it definetly gives you a better chance to crack the top 500 LOL.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> UMMMM....that's what I see too??


*That is the way I read it also,plus only 15 home on the day which is equal to 17% of 87 birds shipped.* GEORGE


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

george simon said:


> *That is the way I read it also,plus only 15 home on the day which is equal to 17% of 87 birds shipped.* GEORGE


With this type of return I wish Ken Munson or as you know him whitesnmore would have sent some of his Houbens to this race. 

Ace


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Yes I agree. And being that he did not actually win, it makes it even less impressive. On the other hand you can not judge a fancier by one race alone. Elton has a good one loft record and quality birds. I will follow his record throughout the season.


*HI RANDY,What I would judge any flyier on is his over all record in a combine, where there are 500 or more birds in a race,and where his birds win and are consistently in the top 5% to 10% * GEORGE


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> How many birds did koopman send to south africa 50-60? But, i dont think that its necessarily buying the race because there are 5000+pigeons but it definetly gives you a better chance to crack the top 500 LOL.


Yeah, Koop sent 60+ ... and had 2 in the top 10% .... and one of them in big money both capital and auction...and bragging rights.

But what bloodlines you think those other 58+ were ? And the hundreds that were entered by other flyers directly off Koops top birds...

I think he has more balls than most of the big name breeders (who also have money) to put his money on his stock but I am not necessarily swayed by his odds ...

We have another "Mr Kitchenbrand" that has spent over $1 Million US in buying what HE THINKS are the top birds at MDPR over the last 4 years, breeding and selling stock.... and not more than 1 in the top 10% of the final race every year since then! 

We also have our own famous "Dave Clausing" that has done very well in the MDPR but lately his stock is sinking with no big performances
despite increasingly larger numbers of entries in the last few years (30+ if I remember correctly).


So why the large number of entries? I don't think it is to necessarily buy the race - rather it is to test their birds in big competition because they can afford to do so. And at the same time, if one does hit - it only serves to heighten the marketing hype. So it is a win-win situation for them. But then, an established breeder as say "Mike Ganus" - if he puts 30 entries in a race and some no-name beats all 30 of his birds - what good does that do for his marketing objectives?

But a winner is a winner and congratulations are in order!

Now who would you buy birds from? Ganus, Koopman, Kitchenbrand, Clausing ? Can you expect to have better results than they do?
You may have to play the same odds as well !


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

george simon said:


> *HI RANDY,What I would judge any flyier on is his over all record in a combine, where there are 500 or more birds in a race,and where his birds win and are consistently in the top 5% to 10% * GEORGE


George,

Most of these guys are business men ... they are not handlers! So a guy can get his butt kicked in the combine but do successfully in the one loft races...


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

irishsyndicate said:


> George,
> 
> Most of these guys are business men ... they are not handlers! So a guy can get his butt kicked in the combine but do successfully in the one loft races...


*HI IRISH, That is true and these guys are gamblers for the most part,and that is what they are into. I have seen them playing cards while waiting for the birds and these card game are for hi stakes. But that is what they like so be it.* GEORGE


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

ProPigeon Loft said:


> What race is that?


PA Dutch 100m...

BTW, Nice blog !!!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2009)

wow what a thread lol


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

george simon said:


> *HI RANDY,What I would judge any flyier on is his over all record in a combine, where there are 500 or more birds in a race,and where his birds win and are consistently in the top 5% to 10% * GEORGE


George

I would personally think that the guy who is consistent in the combine is more successful than a guy who hits a one loft race. I do think what we need to look at is consistency. If a guy kicks but year after year or is successful like Warren puts it "Out of Turn" then I would call him a success. Vic Miller comes to mind. He won in the combine and the one loft races. This may be why guys are winning with his bloodlines today. Bob Kinney was another.

It is easy for a guy to buy a successful bloodline and to win initially with it, but to carry it on is another story. Clausings, McLauglin, Red Rose, these are three that when I started were the hottest thing going. Now not so much. You see Ganus chasing new blood, looking for the next thing that wins. 

Another point is the fact that no one has stopped to assess the Spirit of Colorado race and why it is a difficult race. If anyone has ever flown into Denver they should know about the turbulence of the Rockies. Also they are usually flying dead into a head wind. I also do remember him mentioning fog. Any of those conditions could make for a hard race. This race had all three. They are also increasing altitude and flying in 5K air for 300 miles. 

Randy


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2009)

Im going to say you are correct ,consistancy is what its all about and if you dont follow all these races you will never know whos doing what year after year ,so just hearing it from those who are paying attention is a great help to the people who are looking for a great start if they are choosing the racing path so thankyou for that and all that you share with the lil people here on the board its much appreciated by me at least and Im sure by many others


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

ace in the hole said:


> With this type of return I wish Ken Munson or as you know him whitesnmore would have sent some of his Houbens to this race.
> 
> Ace


The 200 was the same way. Tough birds do good in this race. Vern's birds once again were strong in the first two but dropped off at the 300. My thoughts are that you need a different bird for the 300. Also if you look at the results no birds were very consistent over the three races. If Vern's bird comes in within the next few he has a chance for some money points. Tough race when a late second day bird has a chance for points money. If I were to send a bird to the race it would be off of Buzz or Kahuna for this one. Proven bloodline over high altitudes multiple races over 360 miles. My others would probably not do so good. You might need a quiver of birds for this race. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

george simon said:


> *HI RANDY,What I would judge any flyier on is his over all record in a combine, where there are 500 or more birds in a race,and where his birds win and are consistently in the top 5% to 10% * GEORGE


George,

I generally agree with you, but in such situations how much of such winning is attributed to loft, loft location and management skill ? The One Loft events, are IMHO a much better indicator of the quality of birds, then what a great handler might be able to do in his local club or combine. Now, as you said, winning againest 87 birds does not sound like such a great feat. But it could represent more breeders then in your combine example with 500 birds. And we must assume with the entry fees and perch fees which can run many hundreds of dollars, that the breeders sent what they thought were some of their best birds. 

A single, out of turn win, be it 87 birds, or 8700 birds, may not mean anything, and I havn't run the numbers, or figured out how many birds, how many events, and what percentage won etc. But he certainly has won or been in the money, in quite a few events. And, in my case, the birds I got from him, produced the goods. Not, selling him, just stating my personal experience and observation.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> George,
> 
> I generally agree with you, but in such situations how much of such winning is attributed to loft, loft location and management skill ? *The One Loft events, are IMHO a much better indicator of the quality of birds, then what a great handler might be able to do in his local club or combine.* Now, as you said, winning againest 87 birds does not sound like such a great feat. But it could represent more breeders then in your combine example with 500 birds. And we must assume with the entry fees and perch fees which can run many hundreds of dollars, that the breeders sent what they thought were some of their best birds.
> 
> A single, out of turn win, be it 87 birds, or 8700 birds, may not mean anything, and I havn't run the numbers, or figured out how many birds, how many events, and what percentage won etc. But he certainly has won or been in the money, in quite a few events. And, in my case, the birds I got from him, produced the goods. Not, selling him, just stating my personal experience and observation.


Truly one loft is one of the best tests for breeding. Like all experiments you must try to eliminate all but one variable. By having all breeders ship their youngsters to one loft, you have all the birds trained, fed, and kept together with all hopefully getting as close to the same treatment as possible. So while the race back to the loft may cause some variables, the one loft race is one of the best indicators of how one loft's breeding is matching up to others.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Big T said:


> Truly one loft is one of the best tests for breeding. Like all experiments you must try to eliminate all but one variable. By having all breeders ship their youngsters to one loft, you have all the birds trained, fed, and kept together with all hopefully getting as close to the same treatment as possible. So while the race back to the loft may cause some variables, the one loft race is one of the best indicators of how one loft's breeding is matching up to others.


 That has always been my thinking...but everyone can have their own ideas. There is a saying, that you can buy a fanciers birds, but you can't buy his loft, his loft location, or his handling skills....well maybe you could buy his loft, but you know what I mean. If you are a member of a large enough combine, you will know guys, that the best birds in the world would make little difference, and then there are those guys who might win with common "barn pigeons". So, judging a man's (or woman's) racing pigeons based on his local race results, may simply be judging his handling skills and is loft location, IMHO. Which could explain why when people buy birds from their #1 guy in the combine, are unable to duplicate his results.

Again, only my thoughts, not saying other ideas are wrong....but pick yourself up a dozen "Top Guns" or "Champion Birds" which have competed in a series of races at a One Loft event, and came out #1, with perhaps only a few hundred entrants, who put up a $1,000 entry fee. And then go buy a dozen of your local combine winners with 2 or 3 or 4 times the number of birds, and breed from them, and tell me after a couple of generations, what the results are, and then perhaps we could have some hard core facts to back up this theory of mine.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

im gonna have to say I agree with you too .. all great birds flying from one place will give you better results in the end then flying those same birds from different lofts with different handlers .. its more of an even playing field and you will never get that while flying in a combine no matter how many birds you fly in it .


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

george simon said:


> *HI RANDY,What I would judge any flyier on is his over all record in a combine, where there are 500 or more birds in a race,and where his birds win and are consistently in the top 5% to 10% * GEORGE


Let's take a look at last week's race in the United Pigeon Combine, whose results are on Racing Pigeon Mall. Now, let me see if I can make my point. 
In this combine there is a 20 bird shipping and 3 bird clocking limit. I used only the Long Section, because our lofts are fairly close.

SFL loft birds were managed by three different handlers. On three different systems. From three different lofts. Brothers and sisters are represented on all three teams. All birds were transported and trained together. They were fed the same feed. The major difference is the system used, dark, light, natural and the loft locations.

The results, are radically different, even though genetically, they are identical. 

1st, 2nd, and 3rd were birds flown by my loft manager Lew Burns on a Darkening system.

14th, 16th and 17th was won by an affiliate loft flown by Dr. James Gilhool on the Natural system. 

Somewhere down the list, like #62 my name shows up with my first clocked SFL bird. The two birds I clocked, which were not SFL banded, did not have their flights cut, as the rest of my team on the Light system did. Heck even a Jr. beat me with a SFL banded bird on Natural.

Rather then these results showing who had the better birds, I think it showed the advantages of the particular system which was in use. 

(I can show only 10,000 characters, so it will be cut off.) 



WinSpeed-1 United Pigeon Combine Long Section 09/11/09-23:02
Weekly Race Report Page 1
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: FIRST NEW MARKET Young Bird Race Flown: 09/05/2009
Released: 07:30 * Birds: 620 Lofts: 38 *Station: NEW MARKET, VA
Weather (Rel) Clear, Calm, 54 degrees (Arr) Clear, Calm, 75 degrees

POS NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X ARRIVAL MILES TOWIN YPM PT
1 *LEW BURNS*/20 129 AU 09* SFL *BC C 10:33:56 139.535 00.00 1335.096 100
2 *LEW BURNS *104 AU 09* SFL *B H 10:33:58 2/ 20 00.02 1334.854 99
3 *LEW BURNS *132 AU 09 *SFL * BC C 10:33:58 3/ 20 00.02 1334.854 98
4 WM L DUERR/20 678 IF 09 HHC GRIZ C 10:43:15 144.043 03.21 1311.849 97
5 JOHN PRICE/20 1317 IF 09 RLPC BCWF C 10:39:14 140.453 04.04 1306.309 96
6 JOHN PRICE 1403 IF 09 RLPC RC C 10:39:14 2/ 20 04.04 1306.309 95
7 JOHN PRICE 236 IF 09 UPC DC C 10:39:17 3/ 20 04.07 1305.964 94
8 BEN HOUSMA/20 183 IF 09 HBG BC 10:54:53 151.052 05.45 1297.573 93
9 BEN HOUSMAN 1418 IF 09 HBG BC 10:54:57 2/ 20 05.49 1297.151 92
10 MATTHEW HO/20 255 IF 09 UPC BSPL H 10:45:15 143.368 06.15 1292.331 91
11 MARTY VALL/20 7 IF 09 GSS BC C 10:58:03 151.577 08.13 1282.267 90
12 MARTY VALLE 1 IF 09 GSS BC C 10:58:15 2/ 20 08.25 1281.036 89
13 NORM SHEAF/20 640 IF 09 HBG B 10:54:08 148.135 08.51 1277.192 88
14 *JAMES GILH/14 *55 AU 09 *SFL * B H 10:41:46 138.956 08.35 1275.311 87
15 BILL THOMA/20 800 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:01:02 152.799 09.36 1274.330 86
16 *JAMES GILHOOL *38 AU 09 *SFL * B H 10:41:55 2/ 14 08.44 1274.314 85
17 *JAMES GILHOOL *151 AU 09 *SFL * BC H 10:41:58 3/ 14 08.47 1273.982 84
18 HIDDEN HIL/10 1214 IF 09 RLPC BCSP C 10:43:57 139.924 09.29 1269.743 83
19 BILL THOMAS 818 IF 09 GSS RC C 11:02:23 2/ 20 10.57 1266.230 82
20 MARTY VALLE 15 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:00:44 3/ 20 10.54 1265.940 81
21 BILL THOMAS 805 IF 09 GSS B C 11:02:29 3/ 20 11.03 1265.634 80
22 MATTHEW HOOVE 729 IF 09 RLPC B C 10:49:37 2/ 20 10.37 1264.061 79
23 WM L DUERR JR 646 IF 09 HHC B C 10:50:43 2/ 20 10.49 1263.049 78
24 KYLE BOLTO/18 263 IF 09 UPC BC H 10:51:14 144.187 11.09 1261.068 77
25 MATTHEW HOOVE 3031 AU 09 AHPI SIL C 10:50:39 3/ 20 11.39 1257.551 76
26 KYLE BOLTON 3009 AU 09 AHPI B H 10:52:03 2/ 18 11.58 1255.971 75
27 KYLE BOLTON 271 IF 09 UPC B H 10:52:05 3/ 18 12.00 1255.764 74
28 WENDELL EH/20 271 IF 09 RLPC I H 10:48:19 141.456 11.51 1255.301 73
29 MEL UNDERK/20 22 IF 09 HBG BC 10:49:01 141.728 12.10 1253.451 72
30 ZULLI & SO/20 55 IF 09 HBG B 11:02:21 151.208 13.01 1253.242 71
31 ZULLI & SON L 67 IF 09 HBG B 11:02:22 2/ 20 13.02 1253.143 70
32 ZULLI & SON L 64 IF 09 HBG BC 11:02:23 3/ 20 13.03 1253.045 69
33 WM L DUERR JR 605 IF 09 HHC GRIZ C 10:52:26 3/ 20 12.32 1252.338 68
34 BEN HOUSMAN 113 IF 09 HBG BCWF 11:02:26 3/ 20 13.18 1251.456 67
35 TONY VILLA/20 1905 IF 09 HBG B H 11:05:28 152.949 13.50 1249.297 66
36 TONY VILLARRE 1913 IF 09 HBG BC C 11:05:42 2/ 20 14.04 1247.946 65
37 JON BLESSI/16 1220 IF 09 GSS GRIZ H 10:59:46 148.084 14.32 1242.491 64
38 PEACH BOTT/20 632 IF 09 RLPC BC H 11:09:06 153.053 17.20 1229.452 63
39 ARVEL FREY/20 902 IF 09 UPC B 10:55:25 143.259 16.33 1227.437 62
40 ARVEL FREYDEN 560 IF 09 HBG BC 10:55:26 2/ 20 16.34 1227.337 61
41 ARVEL FREYDEN 501 IF 09 HBG BC 10:55:27 3/ 20 16.35 1227.238 60
42 ERNIE GARR/17 716 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:17:32 158.398 18.43 1225.232 59
43 ERNIE GARRETT 727 IF 09 GSS BC H 11:17:37 2/ 17 18.48 1224.784 58
44 HIDDEN HILLS 1309 IF 09 RLPC B H 10:51:12 2/ 10 16.44 1223.989 57
45 JIM BAYMAN/14 1244 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:04:28 148.989 18.03 1222.665 56
46 JIM BAYMAN 621 IF 09 GSS BC H 11:04:29 2/ 14 18.04 1222.570 55
47 JIM BAYMAN 31 IF 09 GSS B C 11:04:30 3/ 14 18.05 1222.475 54
48 ERNIE GARRETT 748 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:18:17 3/ 17 19.28 1221.207 53
49 R VIEW LOF/20 920 IF 09 HHC B H 10:46:46 136.536 16.47 1221.189 52
50 JON BLESSING 1269 IF 09 GSS GRIZ H 11:03:36 2/ 16 18.22 1220.194 51
51 TONY VILLARRE 1917 IF 09 HBG BC C 11:10:51 3/ 20 19.13 1218.845 50
52 DEUTSCHE K/10 45 IF 09 *SFL * RED C 10:52:27 139.924 17.59 1216.430 49
53 DICK HOPKI/20 1610 IF 09 RLPC B C 10:48:05 136.544 18.04 1213.215 48
54 NORM SHEAFFER 631 IF 09 HBG SMOK 11:05:55 2/ 20 20.38 1207.491 47
WinSpeed-1 United Pigeon Combine Long Section 09/11/09-23:02
Weekly Race Report Page 2
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: FIRST NEW MARKET Young Bird Race Flown: 09/05/2009

POS NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X ARRIVAL MILES TOWIN YPM PT
55 MEL UNDERKOFF 40 IF 09 HBG DUN H 10:56:55 2/ 20 20.04 1205.593 46
56 WENDELL EHRHA 283 IF 09 UPC BCWF C 10:56:32 2/ 20 20.04 1205.362 45
57 WENDELL EHRHA 281 IF 09 UPC ICPD H 10:56:33 3/ 20 20.05 1205.265 44
58 SILVIO DE /20 822 IF 09 HBG BSPL H 11:30:48 164.843 23.28 1204.895 43
59 PEACH BOTTOM 304 IF 09 UPC BC H 11:14:00 2/ 20 22.14 1202.558 42
60 PEACH BOTTOM 651 IF 09 RLPC BC C 11:14:02 3/ 20 22.16 1202.379 41
61 MEL UNDERKOFF 2 IF 09 HBG BC 10:57:31 3/ 20 20.40 1202.108 40
62 SMITH FAMI/14 538 IF 09 HBG BC H 10:52:56 137.660 21.27 1193.898 39
--------------------------------- Above are 10 percent ------------------------
63 BOB BOLLIN/14 726 IF 09 HHC BC C 10:52:23 136.981 21.48 1191.239 38
64 LEW CRESSLE/3 995 IF 09 UPC BWF 11:27:43 159.685 27.13 1182.208 37
65 BOB KOCH/20 1672 IF 09 CCC SIL 11:17:36 152.143 27.01 1176.560 36
66 DICK HOPKINS 1622 IF 09 RLPC B C 10:54:32 2/ 20 24.31 1174.973 35
67 BILLS LOFT/20 707 IF 09 HHC B H 10:46:44 130.821 24.16 1170.341 34
68 DICK HOPKINS 667 IF 09 GSS GRIZ H 10:56:00 3/ 20 25.59 1166.611 33
69 SHIRLEY RE/20 231 IF 09 HBG BC H 11:56:32 176.660 33.39 1166.488 32
70 GEORGE SCAN/8 73 IF 09 GSS BC C 11:14:47 148.942 28.27 1166.115 31
71 SHIRLEY REICH 212 IF 09 HBG RED H 11:56:56 2/ 20 34.03 1164.740 30
72 SILVIO DE BIE 862 IF 09 HBG DC C 11:39:12 2/ 20 31.52 1164.279 29
73 HARVEY MOO/20 7959 AU 09 AHPI BCSP C 11:53:27 174.082 33.58 1162.917 28
74 BOB KOCH 1124 IF 09 HBG B 11:20:20 2/ 20 29.45 1162.597 27
75 BILLS LOFT 748 IF 09 HHC B H 10:48:28 2/ 20 26.00 1160.120 26
76 HARVEY MOORE 7965 AU 09 AHPI DCWF H 11:55:05 2/ 20 35.36 1155.751 25
77 COOK LOFT/8 24815 AU 09 ARPU BCWF C 11:00:47 138.017 28.50 1152.416 24
78 ROD HULTQU/10 1516 IF 09 HBG BC 11:31:08 157.839 33.04 1151.987 23
79 ROD HULTQUIST 1535 IF 09 HBG BC 11:31:24 2/ 10 33.20 1150.714 22
80 BOB KOCH 1137 IF 09 RLPC BC 11:22:48 3/ 20 32.13 1150.278 21
81 SMITH FAMILY 30 AU 09* SFL *RED C 11:00:40 2/ 14 29.11 1150.071 20
82 SILVIO DE BIE 825 IF 09 HBG B H 11:44:40 3/ 20 37.20 1139.286 19
83 BILLS LOFT 491 IF 09 HHC BC H 10:55:34 3/ 20 33.06 1120.051 18
84 MAVERICK LO/4 24828 AU 09 ARPU DC C 11:21:35 146.438 38.33 1112.850 17
85 R VIEW LOFT 944 IF 09 HHC B C 11:06:01 2/ 20 36.02 1112.369 16
86 ROD HULTQUIST 1553 IF 09 HBG BC 11:40:20 3/ 10 42.16 1109.652 15
87 R VIEW LOFT 776 IF 09 HHC BCWF H 11:07:04 3/ 20 37.05 1106.989 14
88 GEORGE SCANTL 68 IF 09 GSS B H 11:28:21 2/ 8 42.01 1099.743 13
89 LEW CRESSLER 1442 IF 09 HBG BC 11:48:13 2/ 3 47.43 1088.355 12


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren

Looks like you have a competitive combine. Flying my birds with numerous fancier like you do with all their different methods of training, I like to judge the birds by their placement in the loft. Mini one loft races so to speak. If my birds are coming first to the lofts that I place them in, I feel they are doing good. You may be 30, 50, 90 on the race sheet, but they are always the first bird in. What I have done is when my birds get consistently beat in a loft by a particular bird or family of birds, I stock a few of those birds next year. One example is my SLI cock. He is Mazzarella blood from NY. His brother and half brother were in with my bird or just beat my bird in being first in a loft in ABQ. A good way to assess what others are flying. It is easy when a guy beats you because he darkened his birds and yours are in a full body molt. But if you have a bird under that dark system along with his, its a good assessment. If you only add the stock that beats yours, you have a better chance of bettering you stock. 

Randy


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## Hakkamike (Nov 15, 2008)

He has two pairs up on iPigeon.com right now, it would be nice to know what they were before you bid on them though?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One strategy would be to trade a six pack of birds with the best flier in the combine or club. If your the best trade with the second best. Train using your own methods. This could be a true test of whether your birds or theirs are better. I have found that my birds so far have been at the top of all the lofts that I have flown with. There are a few exceptions. Anthony's SLI birds, ACEs select few, and my blood crossed. These sources are the only places I went for birds last year. This strategy may not work, but in my opinion it beats chasing pedigrees. I have also found a correlation with performance and lineage. Good sound families in the pedigrees usually reflect good solid results on race day. 

This year flying with Steve Guzman in ABQ, our team is made up of his best, Ace's select birds, and few of Vern's select few, and my dream team. It is a race within a race. I have my ideas of what will happen, but must wait and see. Also a test of how well I know my birds and those of others. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

How is 10th,11th,and 14th for Elton against 830 birds from 150 miles. The guy is for real. He did enter a bunch of birds but three close to the top is impressive. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I forgot in the CBS race. 

Randy


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

george simon said:


> *Winner of a one loft race with 87 birds in the race does not impress me.* GEORGE


the 87 birds do not impress me either. The top placed birds in the 87 does. 

Tony


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

I don't know about being impressed, but if it was one of those $1000 per bird entry fee deals, plus pools, I certainly would not be upset if I won 1st place.
You would think that the guys sending birds to such a race, would in fact, send what they think are some of their best birds. At any rate, there are not too many One Loft Events in the USA, that I know of, that are going to have large numbers, relative to a Combine. But, IMHO, I would rather have a 1st place winner like in the above example, then a 1st place winner with 1,500+ birds, and win that nice piece a paper called a diploma. I can't buy pigeon feed or birds with diplomas. But, that is me.


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## keystonepaul (Sep 7, 2009)

*But, IMHO, I would rather have a 1st place winner like in the above example, then a 1st place winner with 1,500+ birds, and win that nice piece a paper called a diploma. I can't buy pigeon feed or birds with diplomas. But, that is me. *

That brings up an interesting question- at least for a new fella like me- where is the base of the sport of pigeon racing. Is it with the combines and the dipolma winners or is it with the one loft/futurity folks. Is it shifting? Is there a divide between the club racers and the money racers? Obviously being new this is NOT a loaded question, reading Mr. Smith's post that I qouted above made me think that I'd like to win some dipolmas and have decisions to make as to what dipoloma winners to mate to get to a point where I can enter a one loft or futurity and not be throwing my money away. Obviously I'm at the start of my road and others are in the middle of thiers. Thanks, Keystonepaul


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

I can't afford to compete with the big dogs in the one loft races nor do I have the breeder birds to compete on that level.
I really enjoy club and combine racing in my own backyard.
Tom


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

keystonepaul said:


> *But, IMHO, I would rather have a 1st place winner like in the above example, then a 1st place winner with 1,500+ birds, and win that nice piece a paper called a diploma. I can't buy pigeon feed or birds with diplomas. But, that is me. *
> 
> That brings up an interesting question- at least for a new fella like me- where is the base of the sport of pigeon racing. Is it with the combines and the dipolma winners or is it with the one loft/futurity folks. Is it shifting? Is there a divide between the club racers and the money racers? Obviously being new this is NOT a loaded question, reading Mr. Smith's post that I qouted above made me think that I'd like to win some dipolmas and have decisions to make as to what dipoloma winners to mate to get to a point where I can enter a one loft or futurity and not be throwing my money away. Obviously I'm at the start of my road and others are in the middle of thiers. Thanks, Keystonepaul


Hello Keystonepaul,

I don't think there is any real divide. IMHO, the sport starts at the local club level. If the sport is to continue to grow, it will come from the efforts of local sportsmen who simply enjoy pigeons, and generally like people. People typically do not get into pigeons because some One Loft event got them excited about racing pigeons.

Without local clubs and people who love pigeons, there would be no One Loft Events. I don't think it that much different from other sports. You have Sunday School softball leagues, high school events, the minors and the Majors. You really wouldn't have professional baseball if it were not for the all the local teams and players. 

Somewhere along the line, perhaps in a year or two or three, or a decade, or maybe even never....once you have won some local club events, and/or perhaps done well in a Combine event, the thought may pop into your mind...How really good are my birds ? What impact does my loft and loft location have on my results ? Are these local events a contest in loft location, management and training....or is it a contest to see who really has the best birds ? For me, that was the question. 

Now, if you get to that point, and you can afford to send pigeons to One Loft Events, I say why not ? Some people have kids, and money is tight, and so may not be able to justify the expense. Some are retired, on a fixed income, and just can not spend the money. I myself, gave up vacations, and work two jobs, just so I can enjoy pigeons the way I want to. So, now if you have what you think are some good breeders, and you can afford to....why not ?

Now, you will be able to see, how your breeding pairs stack up with other guys across the country, and in some cases around the world. The birds are all fed the same, trained the same, fly back to the same loft, etc. The major difference, is the genetics...plain and simple. Now, sometimes local champs do not want to know how good their birds are compared to the so called "Big Boys". Maybe their wins are simply based on a good loft position ? How would it look to their combine buddies if their birds did very poorly ? There is a downside to entering such an event, because it is very public. The so called thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat. 

I personally find it helpful to see what pairings are working. I think the One Loft experience has helped me become a better breeder. A fair number of our top Combine members who do well in our Combine races. also send birds to One Loft events. And if your are fortunate enough to pick up a check or two for $20-30,000...well it helps pay for some pigeon feed. If I was wealthy and owned race horses instead, I know I would enjoy winning a Kentucky Derby type race. Compared to getting a race horse into such an event, racing pigeons are really quite affordable.

IMHO, save your money for now....perhaps invest in some "good" stock, and enjoy some local racing events first. Once you are getting your birds home on race day and can determine what you are producing, then you may be ready for a One Loft Event....IMHO...I would skip the futurity events, for a dozen different reasons, not the least of which we are already getting OT. 

The topic of this thread is *"Elton Dinga", *had he been a Combine Super Star...odds are, you never would have heard of him. But, he has made a name for himself, good, bad or indifferent, because of the One Loft Races. Whenever one stands out, there will always be those who attempt to dismiss his achievements. Some might refer to it as professional jealousy. I look at him, as a very valid competitor. For those who may think it is an easy task, I suggest they get out of the grand stands, put their helmet on, and get into the game.


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