# EEEEK -- building owner vs. pigeons!



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Yikes -- I just got a call from our building manager -- the one who was destroying nests, and spared ours at my begging-- the building owner is freaking out and insisting that all the nests be destroyed and the rafters netted -- his job is on the line if this doesn't occur. Tenants have been complaining, I guess, about the droppings, etc. There are a couple of other nests out there -- one is too far for me to see, but I know roughly when the eggs were laid -- they are either just about to hatch, or have done so already.


I understand that this has to happen, and there is nothing I can do about the destruction. I have agreed to foster-parent any living squabs out there, including (but maybe not limited to) the two cuties my husband posted. I've been fretting about this happening -- and now it is. I'm not going to attempt to hatch any eggs -- that is just too risky, I think. 

Wish me luck!!!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

How high up is the nest w/eggs about to hatch or already hatched? Is ladder
access the only way to the nest?

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*God's Speed!*

And blessings to you. I hope you are able to rescue those little birds. I'll be praying for you.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks for the well wishes. The nest that I can't see is awkwardly placed -- it is actually a few feet below the window of one of my neighbors -- I have a message out to her to see if I can use her window for access to it. The other way would be to get up on a ladder and then climb over some very ineffective pigeon spikes to get to the nest.

I have "my" squabs in a little basket nest with me now -- I attempted a feeding, but they were still pretty freaked out from me nabbing them. The parents were terribly distraught to find the young missing, and I just feel terrible about the whole thing. The babies are calming down now -- I've already been pooped on twice, which I guess means I have been initiated. I'll try feeding again in an hour or so.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Just an update -- the babies seem to have adjusted fairly well to the move. They've calmed down a lot. They're still not eating much, but I did get them to drink some water. They are beginning to recognise me as a benign, care-taking presence, it seems. The larger one even pipped a bit when I went to put him back in the basket after an attempt at feeding, so I held him some more, which he seemed to enjoy.

I haven't been up close and personal with a bird in a long time -- I'd forgotten how nice they smell! They have this downy, soft smell about them -- very lovely! We're going to get them a home tomorrow (I hate the term "cage" and I doubt they will ever spend much time in confinement.) My husband is away until tomorrow, so I am on my own with them until then. I'll do the formula thing again in a bit (I'm getting nothing done today that i had planned to do -- oh well --- ) and then hopefully I can get some work done, and they can get some sleep.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi minimonkey, you are doing great. 
Good luck with those little ones. I hope the other babies will be brought to you and not be destroyed.

Reti


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Reti --

ME TOO!!! I'm going the distance with these other guys -- will do all I can to get in there and nab them up -- yes, I realize that raising hatchlings will be a lot of work, but I can't imagine not volunteering for the job. I have yet to hear from my neighbor -- If it means climbing to dizzy heights to get them, though, I'm all there to do it. 

Feralpigeon has kindly offered to help me if I need it in ladder climbing and hatchling retrieval -- seems we're neighbors, more or less.... I've got a bit of a working relatioship with the actual manager of the building (not the owner) so I think I can convince him that it would be no more work to give the babies to me than it would to destroy them... at least I hope I can..... for the moment, however, I have my hands full enough with my two new loves -- I've named them Prospero and Persephone.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I like the names, very cute.
Thank you so much for everything you do for those poor babies.
It is a full time job to raise babies.

How are they doing today?

Reti


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Reti --

Well, it's 4 am, and I am up with them, actually! I heard them rustling around, and that woke me. (I'm not a mom to any humans, but apparently the instinct is quite intact  ) I finally had a successful feed using the syringe balloon method , I think, and got them to drink some more water. 

They then got all sleepy eyed, and I am wide awake  The male (I'm assuming... may be wrong) got all puffed up and indignant again when I picked him up, but settled down quickly into being nurtured. They seem just fine, if still a bit disorganized from the transition from pigeon housing to human housing. I have formula all over everything from the feeding-- messy little guys! I'm totally in love with them.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

First things first -- my babies are doing fine, as best I can tell. It's going to be time for another feeding soon.

But the reason for my post is that I am just feeling so heartsick right now.  
I've gotten so attached to this flock of ferals -- and despite a prior nest destruction round, and some ineffective anti-pigeon hardware (spikes, chickenwire) they have managed to stick around. Now, their lives may be at stake because the owner thinks they are 'pests.' It is breaking my heart to go over to my window, because outside is the empty nest and sad parents, and others who are still wanting to nest here, amid so much human adversity. Their beautiful cooing, which used to make me so happy, just makes me want to cry. Some evil person removed eggs from a nest yesterday and put one of them between the spikes on a rafter   What kind of sick mind would do that?? I just took in the bowls that I had been using to feed the parents of my squabs....and I just lost it. Just broke down and started sobbing. What on earth is wrong with humans that we can't seem to let anything alone? I just wanted these little guys to grow up healthy and leave the nest normally, and go out and live a normal pigeon life -- instead, I've had to steal them away from parents who don't understand why their babies are gone. I'm sure they feel betrayed by my kindness in feeding them -- like I betrayed their trust. Sadly, the take away message is accurate -- humans aren't to be trusted.

Thanks to you folks for being the exception to that rule.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry for what you and your pigeons are going through.
I've been through this heartache myself, so I do understand how upset and sad you are. I don't know what to tell you, I had tried to fight the management of my building and they still proceeded with their inhumane method of eliminating the pigeons and we got evicted. Fortunately I was lucky enough to be able to relocate most of the flock with the help of some wonderful members of this group.
As long as they are not poisoning the birds in your building they will be fine. It is awful to watch them looking for their eggs and nests, but at least they won't get killed and soon they will move on. Don't feed them, as hard as it sounds for you, let them move on, they will find another location, hopefully a safer one for their future nests.

Reti


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Reti -- thanks for your kind words. I'm very sorry to hear what you went through with your flock, but very glad that a lot of them were relocated. I've given up trying to fight the management, as I might end up getting evicted, too. (In fact, I'm sure if the owner knew I had these squabs, he'd have a cow.)

I have already stopped feeding the adult ferals -- I just hadn't taken the bowls in yet. 

I'm really hoping that they manage to pigeon proof the building humanely rather than resorting to lethal measures -- and that the flock can move along to happier and safer grounds. At this point, I'd like nothing better than for them to relocate, even though I will miss them terribly.

On the home front, I seem to have gotten the knack of feeding, after a few messy starts -- our breakfast went off without a hitch, and the little guys are sporting nice, full crops now. The bigger one has started peeping to me  The little one is catching up nicely in size now, too -- they seem healthy, their poops look healthy, etc. No word yet as to whether I'll be able to access the other nest -- I'll have to be satisfied with doing all I can, and let the rest go.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You are doing great. I am so glad the babies are eating and pooping and peeping.
Yes, they are messy eaters.

Chances are they won't call you for the other babies, they wan't them gone and not saved. Sad.
You did the best you could. You saved those two. Thank you.

Reti


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi MM (and hubby too!)

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through with building owner. I'm glad to hear that the building manager at least sounds like he has a heart and is trying to work with you.
I know you will miss having your feral friends around, but if they move on, it will be much safer for them and less stressful for you.

Most of the time, ferals will frequent a certain location because there is something there that is appealing to them....good nesting spots, food made available, etc.

It is good that the owner is going to the trouble of netting the rafters to discourage nesting instead of just putting out poison (guess we have to be thankful for small favors!). The other thing that may be encouraging them to hang around is feeding. I know you said you stopped feeding, but if others in the building are feeding, the birds will continue to hang around. I know everyone means well by trying to help the ferals out by providing food (I do it myself), but perhaps you could spread the word among the other tenants of the situation at hand, to warn them that the kindest thing of all that they could do to help out the ferals right now is to stop feeding.

Good luck with the babies....it sounds like you are doing an outstanding job!

Linda


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks, all. I think I was the only offender on the feeding front -- and I only started doing that when these two squabs were laid (about a year after the flock moved in.) I think the major attraction is that there are lots of high up, sheltered rafters here -- it is a structure that used to have a roof which was removed. 

One of our building managers is a former vegan who is all about animal rights -she's being great about all this and is just in a horrible position- her husband, on the other hand, is being very weird about the whole thing. He allowed my nest to remain, at my request, and is now trying to blame the "pigeon problem" on me (Hello??? They were already here when we moved in!). He put up spikes and chicken wire, but they are not deterring the birds at all. For a while he was shooting beebees at them, but that stopped when both his wife and I complained. ( I used the argument that our cars happen to be in the line of fire, and that children are often in the parking lot. Clearly, he wasn't worried about being cruel.)

Yes, in some ways, I'll be relieved to see the pigeons go, assuming the owner doesn't just lose patience and kill them. This whole situation has gotten really awful for everyone -- pigeons most of all.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

I really wish every town had a pigeon park where pigeon lovers could visit their friends without being harassed. Since I've been cutting down on the feeding, the ferals have gone down in number. God knows where they go now. Hopefully where they can have peace.

I know what you're going through. It's tough to stop feeding when they look forward to seeing you every day for that food. You feel like you're turning your back on them. Unfortunately in this world, we have to. Not everyone likes pigeons, unfortunately.

WAAAAAH, why can't everyone be like us?  

Sorry, I lost control for a minute there.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

It looks as if I may be able to get those other two squabs out, as well. I talked to the building manager (the wife) and she thinks that the neighbor may be out of town, which may be why they haven't called. She's pretty sure we can work it out to let the little guys make it to me safely (oy, I'm going to be hand feeding for a long time!) I have a really flexible work schedule, so it isn't hard for me to be here for the 3 times a day feeding, except on Fridays, (which I haven't quite figured out yet)-- but I do have to go out of town for a wedding at the end of May. What's the chance I can find someone to pigeon sit, when that means hand feeding???? Would it be really bad form to show up at a nice hotel with a carrier full of birds?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You can always hide them and tell the hotel not to clean your room LOL

By the end of may they should be able to feed by themselves. 
I am glad that you have at least one person on your side and willing to help you to get those two other babies.
I hope it works out.

Reti


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

*Good news*

I talked to my neighbor -- she is going to watch for the eggs to hatch, and then call me to come get them out her window. I'm guessing it will be a little trickier ground with the newborns than with my hearty twosome -- but there is a wealth of good advice to be had here, and mr. minimonkey will be sharing in the parenting. Only catch is if they don't hatch by Wednesday, when the netting needs to go up. I don't have much confidence in my ability to hatch an egg -- even one late in development. 

I don't have room in my living space to house four pigeons for the long haul -- two, yes -- four, no. Anyone local to me interested in taking on a squab or two??? (Feralpigeon? maybe?) I'll certainly get them thru their infancy, but then I am going to need to find homes for two of them (ain't nobody gettin' between me and my current two, though).


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is great news.
I would advice, if they hatch tonight or tomorrow, I would let them get some crop milk from the parents until Tuesday evening. It seems that babies who get some crop milk do develop better and are healthier than the ones who get none.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It sounds good to get a couple of days of parental feeding in before attempting
to rescue the squabs before D-Day. You also mentioned another nest. What is 
the status w/that nest? I think I could help w/something for the other two, even if it is a soft release. I do know of a pretty healthy and unmolested flock,
rare out of all the flocks I have contact with. If they are unreleasable, then I 
should have my backyard set up by then. If you need help getting to the other
nest before Wednesday, it would have to be Tuesday evening for me.

fp


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The third nest, sadly, was destroyed -- apparently by the tenants in the unit next door (who are in the process of moving out) -- the eggs mysteriously disappeared from the nest, and one of them was placed very deliberately in between pigeon spikes where the parents couldn't reach it   Our managers swear they had nothing to do with this madness -- and I believe them. The only other possibility is that the person was inside the window. I don't know these people, (nor do I want to!) but they do have one of the most aggressive and ill-adjusted little boys I have ever seen. So, that leaves the one nest that is just about to hatch, and my two darlings who are safe with me.

I'll see if I can arrange a Tuesday evening nest retrieval with the other neighbors -- hopefully there will be a hatch and some feeding before that time.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How cruel to place the egg between the spikes. I am really sorry about that.
Hope the other guys hatch and will be able ot get a few meals before you retrieve the nest tomorrow.
How are your darlings doing today?

Reti


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

My guys are doing great, it seems. They are quite adapted to me as mommy, now -- and mr. minimonkey got home last night and immediately bonded with them. 

They were getting increasingly restless with the little basket I had them in -- much more interested in being out and exploring --so we went to the pet store and picked up a sizable cage to house them when we are not here to supervise and keep them safe. I built a little nest of dishtowels (they can get a good grip on those) and put out a very shallow little dish of water. They have plenty of room to wander around and practice their walking skills -- Prospero is really getting the hang of it, and Persephone isn't far behind. 

We had them on our laps during tv watching last night (one squab to a person) and they seemed to like that a lot. We were preening them, they were preening us. They fell asleep under our hands -- so very sweet!!

I had a bit of trouble getting them interested in breakfast today -- the great big world is much more interesting than mash, it seems -- but did finally get enough down that I could rest easy. At least one of them managed to figure out the water bowl all on his/her own.

I have a question -- when the feathers come in, there are these little sheaths around them that the pigeons then pick off and the feathers fluff up. What is that stuff called??? It's everywhere!


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## TerryM (May 2, 2005)

*Feather sheaths*

Hello minimonkey,

The only name I know of for the coatings is sheaths. Protection for the new bloodfeather that is growing in. I have two parrots and for the past week two baby pigeons. When I read your posts I felt as if I had written them myself. I work at a Home Depot. The hatred and lack of compassion is unreal towards these sweet birds. Bless you for doing what your doing to help these innocent babys. We are risking our own parrots health by bringing in these wild babys. Pigeons are so adaptable and strong that they can carry disease without falling ill themselves. But, our hearts wont let us do otherwise. Thankfully we know of a wildlife rehabilitator that has taught us how to tube feed. (she has stopped taking in pigeons as she breeds parrots and had lost her flock in the past due to disease carried by a pigeon she was rehabbing) Needless to say we are on our own. I am so grateful for this web site. It's nice to know that we're not alone in trying to help these gentle birds. The birds where I work are constantly making nests in the overhead racking. When pallets are brought down by forklift and there are babys on it mgt. comes to me and tells me to take them or else. So, this is a constant battle for me (my husband works there also) and we work as a team. He loves birds as much as I do. There is no one in our area-CT that will take pigeons so I guess it's up to us. I will be coming here alot for advice and support. Again, thank you for helping these little ones-thank you all!


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi TerryM,

Welcome to Pigeons.com.

What a wonderful thing you and your husband are doing to try to help these needy babies, in spite of your worry for your parrots.

I have a Home Depot in my town too, and have also noticed that the large parking garage outside is a popular nesting place for pigeons as well...Thankfully, since the nests are basically outside and not interfering with any of the day to day operation of the store, these pigeons seem to be left in peace, for the most part.

In our Pigeon Daily forum, under Resources, there are many links that you may find helpful....one of them is a list of Recue and Rehab resources....I noticed one was in CT, but am not sure how far it is from you. In any case, here is the link for you to look at, just in case. Just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

If you have any questions or concerns or just want a little support, please don't hesitate. We have many knowledgeable members here who will be more than happy to help you out.

Again, thanks to you and your hubby.

Linda


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

minimonkey said:


> The third nest, sadly, was destroyed -- apparently by the tenants in the unit next door (who are in the process of moving out) -- the eggs mysteriously disappeared from the nest, and one of them was placed very deliberately in between pigeon spikes where the parents couldn't reach it   Our managers swear they had nothing to do with this madness -- and I believe them. The only other possibility is that the person was inside the window. I don't know these people, (nor do I want to!) but they do have one of the most aggressive and ill-adjusted little boys I have ever seen. So, that leaves the one nest that is just about to hatch, and my two darlings who are safe with me.
> 
> I'll see if I can arrange a Tuesday evening nest retrieval with the other neighbors -- hopefully there will be a hatch and some feeding before that time.


Sometimes it's the tenants you have to watch out for as well as management. In one of the buildings I take care of there are some nut cases 
and if they (tenants) can get to the birds I don't feel the birds are safe. I've
never netted, or spiked or anything like that, and haven't been asked to, but 
sometimes, I think netting is more humane than giving any human access to 
them at random.

fp


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

*Update*

Hi, Mr. Minimonkey here and offering a quick update. Feral Pigeon popped by this evening to pick up two eggs from the one remaining nest on the ledge outside our building. Thanks FP for your generosity, kindness and devotion!   My wife, as it turns out, literally had to climb OUT onto the narrow ledge/girders outside our neighbors' window in order to retrieve them and it's a good 20 feet above a hard concrete surface. It's a good thing I hadn't gotten home yet from work to witness that! Eeeeek. Yes, that's my wife climbing around rafters to save two eggs. My wife felt vibrations in both eggs and we candled them, too, with what appeared to be a good result. Prospero and Persephone are doing grand; we had our most successful feedings to date today. And thanks again, Feral Pigeon! You rock!   P.S. Prospero took his first tiny flight today -- about six inches to the cage, err, pigeon condo. My wife was returning him after feeding and he launched himself into it -- almost. Well, flight maybe is too grand a description; it could've just been a most vigorous hop with wing flapping. He ended up clinging to the bars and couldn't quite understand why he couldn't fit his whole body through them. My wife, most helpfully, deposited him inside, along with his sister.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Blessings*

I so happy the eggs are safe. And 2 lovely babies. Sorry, about the other eggs. Also the parents can find new nesting places. I hope we will get feedback on those eggs. Debbie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, there was a gathering of eggs & animals @ the minimonkey apartment tonight  . We don't know what to expect of the heating pad incubation quite
yet, don't have the exact time of laying. But they did look viable.....
time will tell. The minimonkies had them nestled in a basket on low with a cloth underneath and wrapped over. They checked the temperature while I was 
there. Their two new babies are adorable, one full of personality and adventure, and the other so sweet and shy. Papapigeon was sadly perched
outside their window, while the others would come over to visit when the minimonkeys opened the window. Management may be able to keep them from
roosting, but without a hardcover over the I-beams, there is likely to be a revenge of the nurds, oops, I mean the turds  . All the cars underneath might get blessed. There are some rooftops close by where they can hang out apparently w/out harrassment, so I hope for the best for the minimonkey entourage. Many thanks to you Mr. & Mrs. Minimonkey for rescuing these eggs and hopefully putting your friends on a friendly notice that change is 
coming. 

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

*Not so great news*

When I got home last night, I plugged in the warmer on low and placed several more layers of cotton imbetween the eggs and heating pad. This to make sure that there was not too much heat from the warmer. When I got up this a.m., I checked by touch the temperature in the basket and had a not so good feeling that it was just too warm to be a duplicate of what the parents would have provided. So, more material underneath to help with temperature. This afternoon when I got home and looked @ eggs, w/flashlight, the egg that appeared to have a few veins growing had turned mostly solid dark w/a distinctive line @ the upper 5th of the egg, and then went clear. The second egg appears very similar to how it did last evening, w/the exception that something appears to be floating for want of a better word inside. Floating separately from what was there last p.m. I think there is too much heat coming from the warmer even tho it is set at it's lowest 
temperature. These eggs may not fare well with me and a heating pad as their incubator. Perhaps they were not far enough along? Mrs. Minimonkey told me about a post from a member who put an egg on a heating pad on low, and low and behold a baby popped out the next day! 

I will continue w/this process, although I'm skeptic, there is an odor coming
fairly strongly from the egg that has gone dark. I'm very sorry folks  .

It doesn't seem promising here.

fp


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi, FP. Mrs. and Mr. Minimonkey here... How sad! We're not expert at all, obviously, on incubating eggs, but it sounds as though the dark egg may be a lost cause, but who knows? Also, the fact that it's emitting a fairly strong odor probably doesn't bode well? As for the other one, I'd keep trying, I suppose. In any event, given the rain in our area today and the meager nest the eggs were in, it's perhaps somewhat doubtful that they would've made it through today. But keep us posted! Either via e-mail, PM or postings here...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

minimonkey said:


> Hi, FP. Mrs. and Mr. Minimonkey here... How sad! We're not expert at all, obviously, on incubating eggs, but it sounds as though the dark egg may be a lost cause, but who knows? Also, the fact that it's emitting a fairly strong odor probably doesn't bode well? As for the other one, I'd keep trying, I suppose. In any event, given the rain in our area today and the meager nest the eggs were in, it's perhaps somewhat doubtful that they would've made it through today. But keep us posted! Either via e-mail, PM or postings here...


Hi Minimonkeys,

I discarded the egg that had become dark inside this morning as it had signs
of beaded weeping through the shell although the shell itself didn't appear
cracked at all. The other egg remains, and I will check again this evening.
Must have been the luck of the draw for the other member or perhaps the 
development was so far along that nature prevailed. We did check the temp
@ your apartment, but it was w/a meat thermometer, and I'm not sure that 
the reading had stopped when we read it. I'll try reading temp tonight w/a
mercury thermometer. I wondered how things went yesterday @ your building w/the "pigeon proofing"? Is Papapigeon still by your window? I'm
hoping that management doesn't get obsessed w/all this and decide that the 
vehicles underneath need to be protected to "protect their investment", and 
that the "nest proofing" will be the last of their efforts. Keep you posted on
the second egg.

fp


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

FP --First thing -- I'm guessing that there was a tiny, invisiblee crack in the shell of the lost egg -- likely my doing in retrieving it. I was as gentle as possible, but I was having a very hard time reaching the nest, so the whole operation was far from graceful. Even if we had a proper incubator, I think that egg would not have made it. Secondly -- the rain flooded the gutters where the nest was- so both eggs would have been lost i any event, all human interference aside. There is a good 4 inches of water in the gutter right now -- so we would have had drowned eggs -- or worse -- drowned babies. 

The scheduled pigeon proofing didn't happen yesterday   I'm grateful for the rain, as it takes away the awful feeling that I would have disturbed a viable nest needlessly otherwise. It also deterred a nest-in-progress outside our window, again. Mama and Papa are still around -- they actually landed on our other window yesterday -- we wondered if they heard their babies, who had just been peeping up a storm during an enthusiastic feed. We considered letting them in -- but thought better of it. It would only confuse an already confusing situation. I hate feeling as if they know we have the babies "captive"   

On the home front, the babies are thriving. What was once a passive process of feeding has turned into a frenzied affair -- they both plunge for the feeding syringe flapping up a storm!!! Persephone's crop empties much faster than Prospero's -- so we've taken to giving her a couple of additional feedings a day by herself. I'm pretty sure the difference in size is due to her being so much less aggressive than he, and therefore having been chronically underfed. She is definitely getting less shy, and is growing nicely. He's beginning to take small flying-hops. They both have a good pecking instinct, and I think we will be introducing solid food this weekend. They are totally imprinted to us now -- they peep and flap excitedly whenever we get near them. I think they are both going to be shoulder-perchers.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi MM's,

Judging from what happened to the second egg, I think your risky retrieval would have had no negative impact on the eggs @ all. I think they probably
survived both the retrieval and the drive home. Tonight when I put the thermometer in the basket, the mercury shot to its highest possible reading. This would put the eggs in an incubator of over 106 degrees. The reading is more than that, as had the thermometer measured higher temperatures, it would have been higher. The mercury is all the way to the end where one 
would hold it. In fact, I've been unsuccessful @ shaking it down. 
(BTW, I had to throw the second egg the next day, it shared the same fate
as the first)

I'm relieved somewhat to know that had we not raided the nest, it would likely
not have survived. One of our members always mentions putting the heating
pad under the box as opposed to in it and I can't help but wonder if that would have been enough to bring the temp down low enuf for incubation. One thing is sure, it's important to check the temp before placing. Secondly, there may be enuf of a variation in temp. from manufacturer to manufacturer that you'd always have to check and play w/extra layers until the desired temp attained. 

Anyway, you were successful in rescuing two, and what a beautiful and bubbly two they are. They are so much fun, and it was wonderful to see how 
much joy and enthusiasm all four of you had for one another. If they become 
shoulder buddies, who knows, maybe you two will soon be sporting 
new hair styles  .


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Lesson learned the hard way, I guess.... I know I won't ever try with eggs again unless I have a proper incubator. I'm so sorry all this happened -- and again, grateful that the rain would have made them meet the same fate (othewise I'd feel like a *real* clod!) 

Thanks so much for trying with me. Our managers *still* haven't netted the rafters    Mom and Dad to our twosome are nesting again -- I'm just trying to stay out of it. If there are babies born, I will watch over them, of course -- and rescue onlly if necessary. At this rate, I probably could have left our two darlings to their parents, and all might have been just fine. I'm happy as can be to have our pijjies -- make no mistake -- but sad that I may have interfered with a natural process for no real reason.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

"At this rate, I probably could have left our two darlings to their parents, and all might have been just fine. I'm happy as can be to have our pijjies -- make no mistake -- but sad that I may have interfered with a natural process for no real reason." MM's

**Problem is, once construction workers get involved, there is no way of pre-
dicting a positive outcome. They might see their involvement beyond just
pigeon proofing and more like pigeon irradication. Your babies could have ended
up in a dumpster, injured, or worse. You had no way of knowing and did the best you could in the moment and with member advice to move in supportively
to protect the babies from a worse fate. There will be more babies for mom&dad pijies, not to worry! And your rescues are quite content where they
are. I think it was a wise choice under the circumstances.

Best,

fp


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