# Pigeon nest and egg help



## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Hello,

I live in an area with lots of pigeons, and a few weeks back noticed a couple of them making a nest in my toilet windowsill. 

About 4-5 days ago I noticed one of the bird was always on the next and a couple days ago I looked and there was one egg in there. They continued to sit on it day and night.

This morning I noticed the pigeon was not on the nest but standing a little away from it and when I looked the egg was gone. I thought maybe a crow or something got to it but then noticed it has been rolled away frmo the nest.

The bird is still there, but they are not trying to do anything with the egg now.

Should I try to put the egg back in the nest? It is hard to reach so i'll have to fashion some tool to try to scoop it up and put it back in. Can the egg hatch by itself?

I have attached beore and after pictures of the nest site.

Any guidance would be appreciated. 

Thanks!


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

the egg can NOT hatch by itself, it takes warmth to allow the start of incubation which grows an embryo into a hatchling. You're OK to try to put it back in the nest, they may sit on it, esp if the hen is going to lay another one, it's most common for them to lay two, but not unheard of to lay only one. This could be a young pair that is not got the hang of things yet and it was rolled out on mistake. If a predator was there the egg would be gone and eaten by now.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thank you Whytpigeon.

I will try to put the egg back in the nest tomorrow morning.

I'll update on whether they go back to incubating it or if they have abandoned it completely.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

If the egg was put back right away, or within a few hours, it might make it and they may continue sitting. Seeing an "Empty nest" they will probably begin courting and lay again in 10 days or so, possibly in this same nest or they build a new one somewhere else.


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## Aurelie (Mar 12, 2015)

Pigeons can tell if an egg is fertile or not after a few days in my opinion, they'll often roll it out. Not only pigeons do this, many birds will roll out infertile eggs out of their nest, hens do this too. I don't know if that's the case here, but it's possible. I really doubt it rolled out by accident, they're born knowing how to properly hatch eggs, they don't need training for it.

We never put eggs back that are removed from the nest, pigeons know why some eggs are rejected better than we do.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

If this were true with all birds, then why do my pigeons sit plastic eggs for 18-20 days? I am so glad they do otherwise my birds and I would not
Be able o rest during the winter.


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## Aurelie (Mar 12, 2015)

Good point, I dunno, why do some broody hen steal eggs from other nests and reject their own. I believe they judge the likelyhood of survival. I don't believe eggs just roll out nests by accident because they're clumsy, they're rejected in my opinion.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Update*

Well, this morning I looked around and the pigeons were no where to be seen. Was afraid they left, but decided to try anyway and moved the egg to the nest.

2 hours later, a pigeon is back sitting on top of it. Unfortunately they all look the same to me for now, so who know's if it is the same pigeon, or if everything is ok with the egg (was out of nest for at least 24 hrs), but at least there is some chance now. I hope.

It's funny how I used to just keep shooing them away from my window sill, and now i'm rooting for this little one.

I'll let you know if the baby makes it or not. Fingers crossed!

Thanks again for the quick help.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Well that was short lived.

Kept checking every hour and pigeon was still on the nest.

Just checked now and pigeon was off the nest. So looked and egg wasn't in nest. Looked around and this time it is nowhere to be found. It either rolled it right off the ledge, or the crows got it.

Either way, no more baby bird.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

samsara said:


> Well that was short lived.
> 
> Kept checking every hour and pigeon was still on the nest.
> 
> ...


They may find a better spot to raise hatchlings. Some seem to understand to do this if too many predators can see them, and some do not.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

So after that one, another pair decided to make home there. They even added new twigs etc. Sat on it for so long, and this morning when I checked there was no pigeon on the nest which was odd.

When I looked, the egg is rolled off to the side like the first pair. 

Should I just toss the nest out so others don't waste their time here since something seems to be wrong at this place?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well, I would just keep the egg in nest and see if they sit. They usually sit when they lay both the eggs. 
Is the nest safe from predators? How old the egg is in your opinion?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks Kiddy.

The last time this happened, I put the egg back in the nest and they sat for a few hours and then it was gone (assuming rolled it off the ledge)

I put the egg back and a pigeon was back on top of it in a couple hours, but so far it is still sitting on it for more than 6 hours now so hoping maybe they stay on it.

They have been taking turns sitting on that nest for 10-15 days now which is why I was surprised when the egg was rolled out when I was expecting a baby bird to hatch anytime. 

I dont know all the predators to pigeons...the major ones like hawks/eagles etc aren't around. There are a ton of crows and not sure if they are the cause or not. I don't usually see them fighting but I assume crows go after eggs since they are omnivorous. There are also squirrels around.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

so there has been a pigeon sitting on the nest since then.

I have a few questions:
- The male is constantly bringing new nest material over and she is stuffing it in. Is it normal for them to keep building on nest after there is an egg? Does this mean they dropped a second egg?
- I caught the pigeon rolling an egg out of the nest, almost to the edge and then struggle to roll it back in. Does this mean these guys maybe hijacked the previous nest and were responsible for kicking the egg out?
- I normally only go peeking when the birds aren't on the nest and that is how I found the last 2 rolled eggs, but want to have smoething there to see if they roll another egg out by accident and help sooner. Was thinking about installing a webcam, but it'll spook em for a bit while I do it. As long as I don't touch the nest or the egg and they come back will it be fine, or will they abandon the egg?

Thanks!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Baby has arrived!*

Well the baby has finally emerged.

I can't figure out if the egg I put back in became this baby or if it is rolling around in the background, either way I'm taking credit!

Even have a webcam setup now so I can take a look at whats going on everyday as it grows up.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

omg he's so cute!!! thanks for sharing the picture! can't wait to see more!!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Jenny, so it is a boy bird based on the picture?


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

samsara said:


> Jenny, so it is a boy bird based on the picture?


Oh no, I don't know! I just don't like to call animals "it" lol so I either call them he or she!  but I've read it's hard to tell the sex of a pigeon unless a vet does a blood test or by their behavior.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

haha ok.

He is doing good. Momma is still squatting on him and feeding him very often.

I have a webcam setup now and am capturing some nice videos of him being fed etc. Also they rolled the egg around and it is in fact half an egg, so this is the one I saved!

Unfortunately the webcam doesn't have great quality (but is the only thing that will fit in the slot) so I try to sneak a few pics with my digital camera which is hard with the slots the way they are. 

Sucks that I have to choose between good shots and good quality, but still pretty fun times. Anyway I attached a picture from the digital camera of pretty momma and you can see the baby slightly under her and one from the webcam of him during feeding.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Thanks for posting! I love these stories and pictures. Can't wait to watch the baby grow. How exciting for you to have this experience. Pigeons do become an obsession!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

aw they are sooooo cute!! thanks for sharing those pics!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Today I learnt that male pigeons make terrible fathers. Momma sits on him all the time and never leaves him at all no matter what nearby noise etc. The one time in the day when they switched and the father comes to sit, the slightest noise spooks him off and he leaves the baby all by itself for 5 mins.

Also learnt that pigeons have tongues, at least I think that is what I saw when the baby pigeon was opening her mouth (yawning I think).

And finally I learnt that pigeons don't like cooked beans. I read somewhere on the forums about feeding them boiled peas and I was eating beans and figured greens are greens, but they wouldn't even touch it.

Below are pics from digicam and webcam. He can support his head straight now which is cool. Hasn't opened eyes yet. Also, what is the red thing near his eye?


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Great pics! Male pigeons make good fathers but this one may be more afraid of humans than the hen (mom). No way of telling if it is a boy or a girl until it grows up and it is a few months old and starts exhibiting male or female behaviors. After a few days they won't be sitting on it all the time and it will be easier for you to take pictures. I hope you are not trying to feed the parents directly on the nest. Elsewhere you can put out grain for them (corn, dried peas, lentils, barley, wheat etc.). So did the first egg disappear, and then they laid another one (this one) or is this still the original egg?


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

you're lucky you get to experience this! they are cute!! I wonder what is that red stuff next to the baby's eye, maybe the ear?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Jenny, I searched on the forums and apparently that is their ear. This guy wrote more about it here:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=12524&postcount=8

Yeah this is a pretty cool experience. The only downside so far is the insane amount of poop they have accumulated on the window sill.

Woodnative, so the first egg they laid and rolled out and I returned ended up missing forever. This is the second egg they laid and rolled out that I returned and became the baby. I'll try the lentils and other things you mentioned tomorrow and see how they react.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

He is now 6 days old and has finally opened his eyes. His skin is changing rapidly from pink to dark gray, but he still has the white tip on his beak while his parents have the white further up their beak.

Also discovered pigeons have two sets of eyelids after watching momma try to stay awake at one point during the afternoon. I tried to drop some lentils on the side and got wing slapped by momma which scared the crap out of me. Figured they are capable of feeding themselves and will save myself the heart attacks.

They are still sitting on him and feeding him constantly and as a result he is getting big.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Pls don't try to drop any feed near the nest while they are in there, the parents might get scared and even abandon babies /eggs sometimes which is life threatening for babies. Also the feed near/inside the nest invites other birds and even predators which may harm the nest /babies, so pls be careful. Watching them growing up is a good experience but without any harm to them. Thanks for posting and having a caring heart for them. 

Jenny, yes that's ear.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks Kiddy. I stopped trying to feed after that one time.

It is amazing how fast he is growing, and also how much more alien like he looks each day. Yesterday he just had skin and hair, today his wings are starting to emerge from his skin. Looks like something from one of those Japanese godzilla movies. And yet his parents are proof of how beautiful he is going to end up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's adorable but if you spend too much time watching or going near them, they could very well abandon the baby and he will then die. Watch from a distance, as with any bird.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Great photos and story!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> He's adorable but if you spend too much time watching or going near them, they could very well abandon the baby and he will then die. Watch from a distance, as with any bird.


Thanks Jay. I watch them most of the time on my phone via the webcam I setup. I also stopped using the bathroom during the day when they are active so they don't get spooked. 

Believe it or not, exactly between 3:30pm and 4:00pm each day, the mom jumps off to go feeding and dad comes to take over. That's the time I go to click a few pictures before dad takes his position. It's almost like a well choreographed routine between us now lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Usually it's the male on the eggs in the afternoon, not the female.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

wow they grow up so fast!! really cute pictures, love the one where the mom is looking at him! you can actually see the love she has for the little one!! too cute!!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

So its Day 9 now and he is proving to be a handful. He is able to move about a little and sometimes he just keeps circling under mom which has got to be driving her nuts. 

His feathers are a little more developed, and he is getting bigger. Even at his size, they are still constantly sitting on him. He has started to peer off the edge of the nest and now im wondering what is going to happen as he gains more mobility.

The parents don't feed him as much as they used to even a day ago...not sure what he is eating at the moment, if anything. Looking at pictures online for 9 day old pigeons they seem to be a lot more developed with gray feathers etc. This guy must be a late bloomer. Hopefully nothing is wrong with him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

His little quills will open any day now and he will have feathers.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

he is getting so big!! cute!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I just finished watching this video about pigeons and it was very interesting learning about some of their abilities. Link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtBloRAxFK8


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

He is definitely going to get some feathers soon. Today I noticed most of the quills on his wing have started to sprout feathers at the end. Who would have thought this is how feathers grow on a bird...damn cool. Quills only appeared 4 days back on the wings. They grow fast! Parents are still sitting on him all the time as if ignoring his growth and deciding to continue treating him like a baby.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They aren't ignoring his growth. He is a baby. He can't control his temporature as he isn't yet feathered. Without them sitting on him, he would be cold. A cold baby dies.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I had read that by day 10 they can control their own heat and parents stop sitting on the baby, but pictures also showed they had more feathers than this guy. I didn't put the two together. Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That is just an estimate as each is different. Depends on many things.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

13 days old now and his feathers are starting to get more pronounced. I really loved watching how the feathers form over time as it is something I have never seen or knew about. 

He moves around in circles a lot now and when he sits, his length from beak to behind is the exact width of the ledge on which the nest is built so he is quickly outgrowing it. Parents still taking care of him with feeding and warmth. I managed to catch a video of the feed today which was cool.

He also has started to flap his wings once in a while and is preening the feathers back there like the adult pigeons. Some pictures below. 10 more days of this and then my life can go back to normal!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

What great pictures you have capturing the growth of this little guy! Thank you for sharing. "10 more days and your life will be back to normal?" Ha ha!! It is my bet that you have been bitten by the same bug we all have.......


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Pigeon pairs like to nest in the same spots so it may be a recurring amusement if they all live, but nature can be disappointing on many occasions.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He will be there for more than 10 more days.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Christina, I have a new found appreciation for the pigeons now, but am still scared of them and doubt i could ever have one as a pet. They are cute and beautiful from a distance but that's it . I think it's their eyes. Plus I've never had pets before and if not going to start with one that can peck me. 

Whytpigeon, after this guy flies out, can i move the next elsewhere and they will nest there or find a different spot? There is so much poop in that window sill it is terrible and i am afraid of catching some disease from all this. Also would like to make use of that shower etc again and not be held ransom by the constant threat of possible abandoned babies. 

Jay3, how much longer do you think? I had read 21 days from being born till they fly the coop. Guessing I'm wrong again like everytime before.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you are mistaken in what you read. They won't by flying till like 5 or 6 weeks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

For a while they will all return to the nest. But soon after they will leave. Then just throw the nest out and clean up the area. Try to block them out if they do try to nest again.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

He is so big now that sometimes looking at the video feed I panic thinking he fell off the ledge and his parents are left at the nest until I see his yellow hair head show up and realize I mistook him for a parent from the back.

His feathers are coming along nicely, and the white part on his beak is down to the just the very tip. He must be in his teenage years because he is quite feisty now and flaps his wings a lot, stands up and looks around and gets so excited that they just put a foot on him and squash him till he settles down. 

I have a collage picture showing his size over the past 17 days and also a picture of the parents.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Day 20*

Additional pics...


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Woo, day 20. His tail and wing feathers are coming along very well now. I think they are almost fully grown with just a few still left with the baby yellow hair. He is starting to get the classic turquoise and purple shades under his neck, and losing more baby yellow hair on the top of his head. His chest feathers are almost done too I guess. It's kind of funny how the baby yellow hair makes it look like he has chest hair hehe. He does have one patch there which I'm not sure if it'll grow in or if something happened. He had similar patches on his wings that are all taken care of now.

His feet are nowhere near the bright pink of his parents. Not sure when that happens but with him standing up now I can watch how that changes. His beak also does not have that white stuff near his head like parents. I haven't seen anything resembling that even start to appear yet. But that's good because then i'll be able to recognize him after he loses all the baby hair.

He can now stand fully on his legs, even tippy toes if needed to look over the glass separator into my side. Parents don't sleep on him at night anymore and when I go to wash my hands he'll be awake and peek to see whats going on heh.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Such beautiful photo's. Thanks for taking the time to post them and sharing with us.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Yes they are beautiful! Thank you!!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I have almost 15GB of pics and vids of him so far and they are going to rot in my drive eventually so posting here and having others get a look at him is fun. Maybe it will help someone else who comes across a pigeon egg someday in the future.

Oh and this was interesting to learn about pigeons:
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/pigeons/pattern/

Both his parents have two bars, but he only has one so far.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Too cute*

Look at him peeking over the glass looking at what i'm upto.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What adorable photos and what lovely pigeons! I hope you get over any fear of them. They are wonderful harmless creatures. We didn't know until we had pigeons how truly sweet and special they are.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Day 27*

He is going crazy with the wing flapping now. Some days I rush in hearing loud noises only to find him flapping around and banging his wings against the glass. He moves around a lot and peeks over the edge a lot as well. Parents no longer sit on him, but rather beside him. 

I'm having a hard time telling them apart now from behind the glass and once he loses the last of his yellow hair, it's going to be tough going.

Is there some way to identify him in the future? Like pattern of his bar or something else unique about them I can try to pay attention to now?

Some pictures from today:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well of course the cere at the top of the beak is white on his parents, and will take time for his to turn white. By then he will have fledged, but they may stay to raise more babies, unless you make them move.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Ya between the cere, hackle, eyes and feet i can track him for now, but I'm thinking later when he is all grown up and if he returns how to recognize him. 

Do adult pigeons have some feature that is different for each one?


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

omg he is growing so fast!!! and he is just too cute!! thanks for sharing all the pics with us


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

*Empty Nest*

Well it finally happened and I came home to find an empty nest. Missed his first flight, but he and the parents were hanging around on the nearby Mango tree and managed to grab some pictures of the big boy all grown up.

It is funny to see he still has a few baby yellow hairs on his head. 

Can you guys tell from the picture which of the two pigeon parents are the male and female?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

more pics...


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Oh and the second part of daily changes...not as dramatic as when he was a baby but still, I made it so here it is.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great pics! Thanks for the update.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well, must say the thread is very interesting and well updated with daily pics. You won't be able to recognize him later because they have the similar blue bar pattern. We too have same feral pigeons here, can hardly differentiate among them. 
But thanks a lot for taking time and posting here. This is amazing.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

aww the baby hairs on his head are so cute! and funny! he looks like a little rock star lol I can't believe he grew up so quick!! thank you for sharing the pics, it was fun to see him grow up


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

It is such a nice thing to see healthy feral/wild pigeons instead of the sick ones most post pictures of from cities where they are overpopulated.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Well that didn't last long lol...See pictures below! Don't know why people talk about bunnies when they should be referring to pigeons instead on this topic.

The other thing is they always lay just one egg. There is another pigeon baby in the flower bed that was also just one egg. This must be prime mating season since they are laying all over the place. I was hoping to see two grow up at the same time which would have been interesting.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

another baby?! how cute!! you're so lucky you get to experience this, enjoy!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

My wish has been granted.

Pigeon is now sitting on two eggs. 

Here's hoping they both make it!


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

samsara said:


> My wish has been granted.
> 
> Pigeon is now sitting on two eggs.
> 
> Here's hoping they both make it!


Pigeons usually lay two eggs. Not at the same time but 48 or so or less hours after the first one.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

EDIT: Nevermind...false alarm. I just saw a pigeon come in and baby went nuts and was fed. So turns out it wasn't abandoned after all. The parent doesn't hang around much at all and that's why MY parents thought it left it.

Interesting to see the differences between the two...one on my window sill had a super active/aggressive baby and parents. Parents always sat with the baby and were very protective. The flower pot baby is so docile and shy and scared...and parents appear to show up just once or twice a day to feed it. 


Guys,

The two eggs are still fine and I expect their hatching date to be around the 23-25th.

My problem is with another pigeon baby which was being raised near the flowerpots downstairs. I've never paid much attention to that one as much as I did the one in my windowsill, but I heard from my parents that it had been abandoned about a week or two ago.

It is very scared and hides in the corner behind a flowerpot almost all the time. Our maid was feeding it for a few days, but everyone is gone for a couple of months and I am home alone.

I moved the webcam down there and put some crushed up lentils to see if it would eat but it doesn't seem to eat any of it. It disappears but I'm wondering if other pigeons are eating it (haven't seen on video yet). Through webcam I can see it also has these brown lumps on its eyes and beaks and googling says pigeon pox. It makes absolutely no noise and just sits there all day.

It's pretty big....is there something I can put there for it that it would eat? As you know I'm afraid of them and am not going to go anywhere near it or try to grab it or anything, so what can I do to help it from a distance?

Thanks!


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Here are some pictures of this guy anyway since i have them.

You can see first one where he is hiding behind flowerpot, then over time he came out a bit more and i could make out something was wrong near his eye.

Also uploaded a video of him finally being fed by his parent.
https://vid.me/hf9j

I'll leave webcam for a day to make sure then back to my two eggs!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The poor thing has Pox. They mostly get that from mosquitoes biting them that are carrying the virus. No meds for it, they just have to get through it. The problem with pox is that if it gets bad enough where they cannot see well or eat well, then they will die if left on their own. It is also very contagious to other pigeons. At this point I think you should bring him in and keep him in a cage and wean him onto seed, and keep him till he gets through it. It will takes a few weeks for the virus to pass, and in the mean time, other mosquitoes that bite him will pass it on to other birds. Also, he will be flying soon, and he will not do well out there with pox. Will just pass it on to other birds.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

If you look at the video he doesn't appear to have issues feeding so far. I'll keep my eye on him to make sure that continues. 

More exciting news on the other front, one of the eggs hatched today! Looks healthy and active and dad is all over it. Dad is also taking care of the second egg well which appears to have cracks in it so hopefully second baby also doing well and will hatch soon. Some webcam pics below:


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

samsara said:


> Here are some pictures of this guy anyway since i have them.
> 
> You can see first one where he is hiding behind flowerpot, then over time he came out a bit more and i could make out something was wrong near his eye.
> 
> ...


Poor thing, you should bring him in like Jay3 suggested. It will be for a few weeks only and you can just keep him in a box or cage until then.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Unfortunately I'm too scared to go near them, let alone touch them, pick them up and take control of them. 

Never had a pet, know nothing about taking care of one. The few things I put out for it to eat was a no go, and I won't be home everyday and think the parents will do a much better job than I ever could.

Excuses maybe, but I'm going to let nature takes its course on this one. If it comes down to life/death I'll try to get past my fears to intervene, but till then the parents have it.

I saw the coolest thing today. When the mom came to take over the nest, before dad left he picked up the half egg shell and flew off with it. Managed to catch it on video! During the transition I was able to sneak a closer pic of the baby and its unhatched bro/sis. 

Do the parents crack the egg like that around it or is that the baby pecking from the inside. Seems so uniform that I thought maybe parents were lending a hand.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The baby has pox. Very contagious. He will just spread it to the other babies. Any mosquitoes that bite him will then carry the virus and probably spread it to the others. They could very well die. Not really fair to them. It probably is a question of life and death. Won't be much fun watching that.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Well I bought gloves and tried to go after it, but no chance. Once it starts flapping its wings I freak out. If I picked it up and it flapped its wings I'd get scared and probably throw it off the balcony.

I'm going back to be a stalker and let nature take its course.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You could help him and these new babies, but you are afraid of a bird?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I get that you are passionate about pigeons and that is great. While my fear may seem irrational to you, you must understand that everybody is different.

This thread started with me saving a baby pigeon after the parents rolled the egg out of the nest. In fact there is a crow right now trying to get at the second egg that I'm keeping at bay. You may not think I'm doing enough, but at least I'm not killing birds or taking the eggs to make omelettes like others might.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well i understand and appreciate what you are doing. I see people like you in my own house. My brother's wife is just like you, she freaks out if any of my birds flies to her tho she even gives them water and feed when i am not home but she can't handle them.

I too would really appreciate if you were able to help that little bird but i know there are people who just can't do it, i have seen many, in fact most of my family members. Jay is good in doing this all and she is a great rescuer, i learn a lot from her but i accept even i am not like her. She is much better than me in doing this all.
I hope and pray the little bird survives and pox runs its course. If you can get someone you can handover this bird to him/her for supportive care while the virus course is over.
Any pigeon friendly rehabber near you who just doesn't put them down?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Try this Facebook group if you are on Facebook, may be you get someone to help you with this:

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/findusonfacebook.htm

Try both, u.k and international because i see people from Australia in u.k group as well.
May be you find a rescuer close by.
Thanks for you care and concern for the feral birds. Appreciate it.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks for your understanding Kiddy.

I'm trying to see if I can find someone locally who might take the bird. 

Also the second egg just hatched! See below:


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's really cute. Thanks for the pics and thank you for keeping the crows away and giving the little kids a chance to survive and see the world.
So sweet of you


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

samsara said:


> Well I bought gloves and tried to go after it, but no chance. Once it starts flapping its wings I freak out. If I picked it up and it flapped its wings I'd get scared and probably throw it off the balcony.
> 
> I'm going back to be a stalker and let nature take its course.


I'm not a bird expert but I've seen pictures when the pox gets so bad they can't see or eat, he will die if this happens to him  it seems that you like animals otherwise you wouldn't be taking pictures of them so hopefully you will be able to help him or find someone that can help him.

Cute pictures by the way, you are lucky you can experience this! I've only seen hummingbird nests.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you can't help then you can't. But don't keep posting pictures and details as the baby gets worse and is suffering and the others catch it, and telling us how worried you are about them, and asking what you should do, if you are unwilling to do anything. It's just upsetting and frustrating for the rest of us to watch, and not be able to do anything to help. Bad enough to watch when we can help the poster to help them. Not really fair to the rest of us to watch a documentary on "Nature taking it's course." You maybe can do that, but many of us cannot.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> If you can't help then you can't. But don't keep posting pictures and details as the baby gets worse and is suffering and the others catch it, and telling us how worried you are about them, and asking what you should do, if you are unwilling to do anything. It's just upsetting and frustrating for the rest of us to watch, and not be able to do anything to help. Bad enough to watch when we can help the poster to help them. Not really fair to the rest of us to watch a documentary on "Nature taking it's course." You maybe can do that, but many of us cannot.


Eh...I posted once about the sick bird with a few pictures and that too because I thought it was abandoned and wondering how to feed it and updated indicating that was no longer the case. That is far from a documentary on "Nature taking it's course".

All the other pictures are of a different set of babies from the previous family that are in a different area. If you can't deal with watching the baby pictures I post that others like, you can either stop reading this thread or continue to be judgmental with your holier than thou attitude and post while eating chicken wings and beef jerky (see how easy it is to go there?). Doesn't bother me either way.

On that note, check out how cute these two siblings are. Parents did a good job with fending off a crow earlier. I find the dad seems to feed the babies more often than the mom does, but maybe she does more at night when I don't see it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I was referring to posts after the baby with pox gets sicker and more covered with the virus, and the other babies catch it. They will most likely catch it because of being fed by the same parents that are feeding the older baby, or more mosquitoes. You were the one who referred to it as Letting Nature Take it's course. Sorry, guess I just don't understand when someone can so easily help these precious babies and protect them, how one can just sit by and do nothing about it. I am not Holier than thou. I just could not watch an animal in need and do nothing.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I think you are a bit confused and to help you better understand the situation, let's label the pigeons. The baby I started this thread with who I helped get the rolled off egg into the nest who most of the thread and pictures and story has been about, he grew up healthy and happy. He is pigeon A.

A's parents, are the ones who are raising these two new babies I am posting pictures of now who are B and C.

The baby who I saw for the first time and who is sick and who I posted once about is pigeon X, from a different area of the property being raised by some other pigeons.

So B & C are not being raised by X's parents. 

I'm sure pigeons have had pox hundreds of years before I was born, and will continue to have it after I die. Nature has ways of dealing with things like this and that is what I meant by letting it take its course. 

Let's use a different example. How many homeless people are in your area. How many of them have you taken into your home and fed and helped get back on their feet? How can you sit by and do nothing about it? If you happen to help one homeless person, it doesn't make you a terrible person for not helping the 100 others, instead it makes you a normal decent person for helping the one you could. If you went around kicking them in the shins and laughing about it, then you would be a terrible person.

Are you or someone in your family non-vegetarians? There are 52 chickens killed every second in this world. What have you done about that? How can you just sit by and do nothing about it? I gave up eating meat. It doesn't make me a bad person because I couldn't get 100 others to stop eating meat, but makes me a normal decent person for doing what I could within my constraints.

It's called having perspective. 

Kiddy's post is an example of a good response. She was understanding, respectful, helpful, and constructive. She understood that my fear while maybe irrational, is common among some people. She didn't make me out to be the Hitler of pigeons like you. She respectfully added how she thought I should try to do more. She then offered a different way I could try to get help for the pigeon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry, I misunderstood about who the pox baby was. 
He will though, probably die if left without help, and any other birds around are at more chance of getting pox. Sad that no one can help the poor innocent thing. He doesn't deserve that.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

My camera stopped working so I couldn't get as many pictures of them as I would have liked, but here is an update on the snugglers. They are 4 and 3 days old now.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

I just love how they cuddle all the time and they are starting to form those quills. 

I also saw the dad feeding them and while I expected him to feed them one at a time, I was surprised to see him feed em both at the same time. It was so cool to watch. I got it on video too. See links below:
http://sendvid.com/2ugg0vrn
http://sendvid.com/1zmxu1jp


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Beautiful babies! The videos give a good indication of what a full crop looks like, you can actually see the crops filling up.

How is the older pox youngster doing? Did the pox lesions became worse?


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## M1973 (Mar 25, 2016)

Your pictures are beautiful!!! I can't wait for the two eggs on my terrace to hatch already!! 




samsara said:


> I just love how they cuddle all the time and they are starting to form those quills.
> 
> I also saw the dad feeding them and while I expected him to feed them one at a time, I was surprised to see him feed em both at the same time. It was so cool to watch. I got it on video too. See links below:
> http://sendvid.com/2ugg0vrn
> http://sendvid.com/1zmxu1jp


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Marina,

Can you explain "see the crops filling up" and tell me what timestamp that happens in the video so I can look at it and understand.

The unrelated pigeon with the pox is still fine. The lesions have not gotten worse, and he is still active and being fed by his parents. I have someone coming in next week to try and take him away.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I really hope the person coming in to take him away will not euthanize him and will know what to do, otherwise just leave him there. If the pox has not increase in size, I guess he will be ok. Is only dangerous when it becomes too large for him not to feed and not be able to breath. Parent feeding him seems fine.

Regarding the video: crop just gradually fills up and that few seconds when they sit down and not being fed, looks nice and full.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Agree with Marina. Handover the bird only after making sure what are they going to do with him. There are many who just don't care and simply euthanise , so just to make you aware of what's happening.

The pics and vids are really nice.


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## umaid shahid (Oct 14, 2013)

my god samsara. such an awesome story. feel sorry for baby X
and believe me, your fear of not being able to handle a pigeon is totally common. i have been through that phase also which ended when i finally gathered up the courage to keep pigeons myself. when they flapped the wings it used to freak me out like hell. doesn't matter, you will get over with it soon

anyways, about the baby X. i had a pair who had the same situation except they were my pets and not stranded. u really cant do anything about the pox. it'll cure overtime by itself. my birds reached the stage when they couldnt see or eat but surprisingly both of them went back to normal so dont worry

and there is nothing much u can do to help that bird because of your fear. not your fault. everyone has their own qualities and i think he should not be moved if the parents are still coming because then who would feed the poor thing?


i really loved ur story and the way u helped raise baby A.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks Umaid!!! 

The person is coming on Monday to take a look at Pigeon X and see if he can take him. He has other pigeons and says he can take care of him. So hopefully it'll be all good. I'll update on Monday on what happens.


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## umaid shahid (Oct 14, 2013)

and what about the other 2 babies? how are they going?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

umaid shahid said:


> and what about the other 2 babies? how are they going?


They are doing wonderful. They are 14 and 13 days old now, and growing! They don't seem to be growing as fast as the first baby and I wonder if it is because the food is being shared by two of them instead of all going into one baby.

Feeding time is quite intense these days as they both fight to get more food. The elder one who is more developed will use his wing to shut the younger one down, but the younger one has developed some strategies like he will go around the parent to the other side, or more recently climb up on top of the elder one so he can dominate. It is quite funny to watch.

I'll update with some pictures soon and also add a video of them fighting over food. I wonder how the pigeon's feed three babies when they happen to have them. 

Also on Pigeon X, he no longer has those things around his eyes so I wonder if he has gotten better already. Let's see what the pigeon person says on Monday when he gets here.


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## umaid shahid (Oct 14, 2013)

haha thats really good. i would love to see a feeding video. the struggle..!! 

and yes, i'm eager to know what the person for pigeon X says today. its finally monday


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry for the delay...I was out of town for a couple of days.

Pigeon X doesn't have any of those lump things around the eye or nose anymore and the guy said he is cured and since he is just days away from flight, makes no sense to take him away from his parents and to just let him be so he can carry on like normal. He was right on his estimate because today when I went to check on him he was on the ledge and when I opened the window to get a closer look at his face he flew away to a nearby tree.

The other two babies are also doing well. Below are some updated pictures and video where you the elder one shuts out the young one during feeding and he digs under and comes on the other side to get better position and challenge his brother. I can't find the other video where he climbs up on top of the elder brother to feed...maybe I forgot to press record. Of course they are much bigger now and feeding is lot more crazy with flapping wings, screeching noises. It's a wonder they don't fall off the ledge! https://vid.me/sqBo


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

That's a great update about pox pigeon, thanks to share. 
The babies are very cute, both are growing well and fed well.
Is one smaller than the other?


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Yes the younger one is smaller. I assumed it was mostly due to being a day younger. I see them both feeding all the time and he is growing each day so didn't think anything was wrong.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Here are couple of better pictures where you can see the difference in size. In the first one, the elder is on the right. In the second picture, the elder is on the left. The younger one is also getting fed and growing, but does have to fight for it a bit more since he is smaller. Do you think there is an issue based on picture? They won't stop feeding him will they?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sometimes that happens, as the larger one will get more food because he has the advantage of size. If you can, without scaring them, supplement feedings for the small one and put him back, that would help. If that would just scare them and upset everything, then just let him catch up on his own. He should in time.


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## samsara (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks. I'll keep watching to see if he continues to get fed. Looks good so far!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hopefully he will catch up as he is bigger enough to ask for food now but keep an eye on them.


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## PeachesTheDove (Apr 11, 2016)

Looks like a cute egg right there. Try lining it with some damp grass or mud, to make it comfortable for that little one.


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## tillyman (Jul 17, 2021)

Wow Samsara, I know this is an old thread but I just found it after googling "how long after pigeon lays eggs do they hatch" lol because I just found the Sam situation on my window ledge of my bathroom window 😱 A few days ago I noticed some nesting materials, then two pigeons occasionally on the ledge when I've never had any before, and they would mostly fly away if they heard me in the bathroom, and then one (the female) started to stay and not fly away, and then there was an egg! 🥚 😱 

If you don't mind and if you even still see this, I wanted to ask a) what did you do after all the babies were born/brought up, and left the nest? How did you know when to safely remove the nest to deter future homemakers?? And b) when you were taking your pictures, did you have the window open? I noticed the barrier type glass that the first baby would peek over but I wondered what the window was like for you to be able to take such clear pics. Mine has the window then a fly screen thing, and I'd like to get some pics without disturbing them but also I'm concerned that having my window too wide open might either disturbed or risk them trying to get inside!

Sorry for the long message but I just read your whole thread lol and it helped! 🙏🥚🐣🕊


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