# do people care in Chicago?



## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

For 3 days, I have been walking past this pigeon sitting on the ground under a highway overpass. My herding dog has attempted to herd the pigeon, and even this has not convinced the bird to take flight. Obviously, it must have something wrong with it. It hops/ flies about 6- 8 inches in the air... no more. I kept thinking that it would recover.

I have been worried that an animal, kids, or a car will kill this bird, so my husband and I went and caught it. It presently is in a large fish tank with a net top in our garage. The wings are not sticking out at any unusual angle... or at least that I can tell. The problem is something is wrong with it that it won't fly up and join the other birds that sit perched under the highway. 

The wildlife perserve will not take it because it is "not native." I CAN NOT keep it. I have a dog that is trained to herd sheep and ducks ( a pigeon is a duck in her mind) plus 3 very prey driven indoor cats. 

Currently, as I mentioned, it is in an old fish tank in the garage. I have attached a picture. What are the chances of it healing and being released into the wild?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi reading4fun2,


This is young Bird, an adolescent, who likely is not developed enough to fly much more than you describe, or, who could do a lttle better but has suffered some privations and is weak.

It may or may not know how to eat by himself yet, or, was just learning to do so and could not find enough TO eat and got weak and seperated from his parents.

It may also be ill...

What do the poops look like, can you describe them?

Does the Bird have any odor if you bury your nose in it's back Feathers?


For now, you could set up a little wide bottom Bowl for Water...

And you could also set up another little Bowl for Birdseeds and a rounded tablespoon of ( say, crushed Oyster Shell ) Grit.

You both might benifit to review my thread of making friends with a new-to-you feral youngster or adolescent Pigeon, for which see...

"Moralle Booster"

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11244


Read all the way through the several posts there.


If this Bird has not eaten lately, it may be less likely to self feed wth it's possble frail skills to do so, oweing to the stress of hunger and frustrations making him remember all the more the longing to BE fed...

It is of an age where it is poised certainly to be learning the art of effective pecking, and if fed enough, will soon do so, or readilty learn to do so, as it regains it's composure and comforts.

Initially, maybe, just place the Water in there first, and dissolve a pinch of Salt, and a pinch of Sugar into it first. This is just for this one, first time Bowl of Water. After that, you can put a few Drops of any nice liquid Bird Vitamjines into it. ( Petsmart or the likes )

If the Bird does not soon drink of it's own, see if you might follow my guidelines in the post for guiding him to do so.

Or just elect to follow the guidelines form the get-go anyway, since for him it will be a 'Moralle Booster' and put you on a nice introductory footing with them.

Then, in an hour or something, put the Seed Bowl in there.

Peck at these Seeds with your crook'd index finget to remind him of their implications...

If he is not eating on his own, you may wish to feed him.

Any further questions on that score, let us know...


Thank you for rescueing this little one!

These are wonderful and gentle Birds and have delightful personalties...you will enjoy the interactions...!  

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, what Phil said--it's too young to know how to eat or drink without you showing it and you'd better get some water down it fast or it's going to go in a coma. When we know it's been re-hydrated for a few hours, then you can work with the food.

Chicago is a big place and I'm sure there are rehabbers there but they don't advertise in the yellow pages. Tell us where in Chicago you are and we'll see if we can find somebody close if possible. In the meantime, let's get it started on the road to drinking and eating.

Pidgey


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

I live in Woodridge. It is a suburb west of Chicago.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*Hello & Welcome*

Many thanks for helping this sweet pij.

_*What are the chances of it healing and being released into the wild?* _
*If* after examining the baby, you find no visible problems, his young age may be the only thing keeping him grounded. It looks like he still had a few yellow pin feathers. Once they are replaced with his 'bigbird' feathers, he gets a few seeds in his crop & learns how to fly, there shouldn't be any reason he can't be released to living back on the wild side.  

I would suggest checking the inside of his mouth. It should be nice & pink.
Please do keep us posted on how things are coming along.

Cindy 

Providing no problems arise, he should begin eating on his own soon. 
As has been stated though, hydration is first & formost.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There is the possibility that the parents were keeping a watch on the little fellow and feeding him ever so often and that all was proceeding according to plan, also. How did he feel when you picked him up? Well fleshed on the breast (think of selecting a cornish hen) or did he feel like a bag of sticks?

Pidgey


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

Actually, he felt okay. Some birds that were perched above did fly around when we picked himup. Should I put him back? But leave out water and seed for him?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if you can tell where he might have come from and place him back there that would be best. However, that might not be possible. If it's safe to put him where you got him and then stand way back and watch to see if his parents swoop down to visit, that might not be a bad thing. If that actually happened and you got to see them feed him, you could then bring him back to the house and keep him safe and keep taking him out for feedings. It's not going to be but a week and this fellow will be able to fly and keep up with his dad to learn pigeon survival techniques. 

Does the underpass slope up on the sides to where the bridge and the concrete embankment meet? If you can set him up in some place like that (you wanna' take a picture of the underpass?) for a few hours a day, it might work out. This is a tricky touch-and-go kind of thing, though, and you'll have to hang around to make sure it goes okay.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Now, that method has its successes and its tragedies. We HATE tragedies so we usually RESCUE first and ASK QUESTIONS later. This means a lot of us have a LOT of birds.

Anyhow, this is a thread from a person that rescued a pigeon near you. It is possible to email that person to ask if possibly their pigeon needs a job raising this little one? Be sure and bat your eyes (euphemistically speaking) and be REALLY sweet and maybe, just maybe, they could help you through the worst of it. At least they're close. Click on this:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10920

Pidgey


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

How long before the parents stop looking for him? If I take him down there in the morning, leave seed and water, go back to pick him up at night... will that work? If I just keep him for a week and then let him go will he just know what to do? Will he be too people friendly? By the way, his poop looks greenish white. Is that right? He is more active in the cage now. He hopes around when we walk out to see him.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

reading4fun2 said:


> How long before the parents stop looking for him?
> 
> If I take him down there in the morning, leave seed and water, go back to pick him up at night... will that work?
> 
> ...


We have many feral babies that enjoy our backyard & I have seen some a bit older looking than your little friend running after Mom or Dad with wings extended attempting to get fed & the parents will have nothing to do with them. 

I wouldn't drop him off in the morning & not pick him up until evening. Main reason being, he is unable to fly. He will most certainly be predator (either two or four legged) bait sure as the world. 

When the time is right, he will know how to fend for himself. I would suggest releasing him near other pigeons rather than by himself.

He shouldn't be too people friendly *if* you don't cuddle him or make a fuss over him. Make sure he is OK, offer him seed, grit (in separate dishes) & water, & leave him alone.

I always get excited when a rescued pij begin to wing slap or nip at me when I approach them. This tells me his defenses are in tact & he should do fine when released.

Are his droppings dark or light green? It's possible they may be a bit off due to stress. Other factors may be considered though. The fact he is becoming more active is a good sign.  

My suggestion would be, given his age, keep him secure, safe & under observation until he is ready to be released, which shouldn't be long given he continues to do well.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Greenish white isn't as descriptive as it seems. You can have a small spot or blob of dark greenish oil paint on a small puddle of white and that mostly denotes not having anything in the stomach/intestines. That would mean that he needs something to eat.

Have you actually seen him eat anything? Or have you read all of Phil's instructions and managed to force feed him something (they don't like that but it DOES keep them alive)? Somewhere in all that's been said around here, little bits of puppy chow that have been quickly wetted and put down the throat do quite well in a pinch. Just make sure the pieces are no bigger than a pea.

I wouldn't personally leave him there without staying and watching. If something happens to him while you're gone and you never see him again, it won't set well with you (you'll always wonder with regret--believe me, I know). If you don't have the time to do that then keeping him at home is the best solution unless we can find a willing rehabber in your area.

We can also walk you through the "soft release" program if it comes to that. Is there a local flock that flies close to your house?

The parents will probably give up in a couple of days. It's hard to say about the "people friendly" thing. Some of them never get that way and some of them turn that way in two days, but that still doesn't mean that he can't survive.

Pidgey


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

I tried the women near me that resuced the other pigeon. He daughter is the one that kept it, and I guess it got out and flew away... never coming back. It broke her heart, so no more pets. 

I have had no problem getting him to drink when I hold an eye dropper up near his mouth, but I don't know what to do about the food. He spilled the seed cup all over the cage, but it doesn't look like he ate any of it. Plus this morning when we went out to see him, he flapped and tried to back up into a corner to get away from us. 

There are always pigeons sitting under this overpass bridge. That is where I found him. I am worried about him eating. You mentioned puppy chow. Will cat food work? Canned? How will I know when he is ready to release? I plan on putting him back under the bridge. Part of me wants to take him down there this morning, drop him off and see if any of the other birds fly down to him. If they do, leave him there for the day, go back at night to catch him again to sleep in the safety of my garage. I can't imagine he is going to like this idea. Also his nest was up under the bridge, so there is no way possible to put him back up there.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Please don't leave him under the overpass the whole day. As Cindy suggested he will be predator food. It is a matter of days/ a week until he learns to eat and drink and fly, then you can go back and release him where you found him.
Most pigeons spill their food and water. Put the food/water back and encourage him to eat and drink. If hungry enough he will start eating. You can give him small seeds, like millet, flax seeds, usually babies start eating the small seeds first. Parakeet food is ok too. But cat food is not good for him, dry or canned.

Reti


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

He is eating the seeds now. I walked past this morning and there appears to be another bird on the ground, but this one is not by the street. It is up toward the top. It looks the same as the one in my garage.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

reading4fun2 said:


> *He is eating the seeds now. *
> I walked past this morning and there appears to be another bird on the ground, but this one is not by the street. It is up toward the top. It looks the same as the one in my garage.


Appreciate the update. This is great news.  
Just my opinion, I would still keep him safe & secure until he is able to fly. Now that he's eating on his own, Mom & Dad probably won't be feeding him much anyway, even though baby would disagree with that decision.  

Placing him back where he came from, for the entire day, knowing he can't fly, is placing him in Harm's way, big time.  

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

About all I would do is put him up there (with the other one that we didn't know about) for very short supervised periods in order for him to maintain the familial bond so that he'll feel part of the group. The big risk in that is that he'll fly beyond your reach but not yet have enough savvy to make it. A pigeon's life isn't easy and they need the flock for security. That old saw "it takes a village..." was never truer than for pigeons. 

If you do all the teaching for the bird (if you've got the time, it's really pretty fun), you need to maintain enough distance so that he doesn't bond to you too much (and this has already been said). Even if they've bonded deeply, it is still possible for them to "make it" out in the real world but it's tougher and it takes a lot longer.

The grim reality is that most bird species maintain a somewhat constant population while raising several young a year. In racing pigeons, I've read that you should try to limit them to four clutches (that's eight kids altogether) a year. In a year, that's a 400% increase. With feral pigeons in the wild, I don't know how many chicks they try to raise but it's not going to be far off of that.

Assuming that to be correct (or at least in the ballpark), then we're looking at an ~80% mortality per year where a constant population is maintained. Believe me, it IS tough to be a pigeon. They need all the street-smarts that they can get. There is a very critical time in their young life (the next month or so for yours) when they are a bit timid and can get easily pushed away from a pile of food by other more aggressive pigeons. 

These are often the most peaceful individuals and they can literally starve to death because of their pacifism. For those of us who rehab on a continuing basis, these are often the ones that break our hearts the most because they are the most innocent. It parallels all that we see wrong with our own world.

Anyhow, what Cindy said about getting "wing slapped" illustrates that the pigeon has gotten aggressive enough to survive. We rehabbers just LOVE getting slapped that way (you'd think we were masochists... ) because we know they've got more than a snowball's chance in... Haiti... at that point!

Just keep us posted and we'll all get through it in a little while, one way or another.

Pidgey


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

How will I know when he is ready to fly?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He will need at least two hours a day of exercise to develop his muscles for flight.
If you can give him some free flight time in a room that would help.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi readingforfun2,


Please! "read for fun" as well as important learning, the thread I gave you the link to?

The thread is to some several posts of mine which will guide you to FEED and WATER this Bird in a safe and familiar to him of manner.

Set aside your 'eyedropper' please and READ what was offered to you to read so that you and the Bird might make out okay?

It will tell you a great deal about HOW to get along with, and water and feed this Bird.


There is NEVER any need to 'force feed' or use 'eyedroppers' on a Bird that if treated with a little deference, WILL happily eat and drink if presented these things in it's terms of familiarity.


I am starting to feel that I waste an aweful lot of breath here...!


Please, encourage me..!  


Phil
Las Vegas


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## reading4fun2 (Jul 24, 2005)

I used the eyedropper to drop the water on/next his beak. At no time did I force feed him. I do not want to handle him too much because I want to hook him up with his other pigeon buddies under the bridge. 

He flying is progressing about 3 -4 feet in the air, but not for evey long. He keeps practicing. Quite the trooper.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

reading4fun2 said:


> *I used the eyedropper to drop the water on/next his beak. At no time did I force feed him. I do not want to handle him too much because I want to hook him up with his other pigeon buddies under the bridge. *
> 
> He flying is progressing about 3 -4 feet in the air, but not for evey long. He keeps practicing. Quite the trooper.


Just make sure the little one is eating & drinking enough.  

That's wonderful news. Thanks for the update.
Each day he will get stronger & stronger. 

Again, many thanks for taking the time to help this sweetie get his feet off the ground. 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi reading4fun2,


Okay, so...just so we can have a better idea for helping you with this -


Is the Bird eating and drinking on it's own?

If not, what are you feeding it and how are you feeding it?

Are you letting the Bird drink from a small cup or bowl of "tepid" Water, or are you making drops with the eyedropper onto it's Beak?

The Bird will 'learn to fly' - which means grows up enough TO fly, because it is healthy, getting enough nutrition and excercise and over time, grows up enough TO fly...when he/she is developed enough to do so, and this is a gradual process that goes on for weeks.


When the Bird can fly 'up' to the highest indoor places effortlessly, it is maybe a week or so away from being ready to go back to it's fellows.

If the Bird does not get adequate nutrition, their ability to develop and grow the muscles to fly will be compromised.


Phil
Las Vegas


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