# The Goodness of Garlic- continuing discussions



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Treesa, this is a great thread and really informative. You had to have done a lot of research and we can all gain from the info you provided.

Thanks, Maggie


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Treesa, Now I know why I am so healthy. I love garlic and can eat it on anything. Which by the way my husband is not to fond of! I tell him if he eats some then he won't smell it on me! Now I will show him your post, and maybe he will eat more, not smell it on me and we can both be healthier! Seriously, I never knew all the benefits. But thanks to you we both will now!
Thanks for the great info,
Denise


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Treesa,

Thanks for all the work you put into putting this thread together. Alot of really good info here on garlic....is it sticky time again  ?
Hope so,

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks all,

Maggie, I spent a few days putting the info. together, but didn't need to research as I already had all the information. 

Denise, Glad to hear you are using it, I myself like it also, and am planning to take it in capsule form also. This will be a great plus for Squidget also, when he is grown up. 

fp, yes it is "sticky time". I also have some information on other natural antibiotics I just received, the "seal of approval" on, late today, for the pigeons. Unfortunately, the oil of orgeno prdouct, Carvacrol was not recommended  , but several others were  . So, I will be getting that together soon for everyone.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I will plant garlic bulbs in a pot and let them grow at least 6 inches then put them in the cage. The garlic plant is gone in couple days, they eat the plant(I guess). I was kind of wondering how often I should do this? They love the stuff but can they over do it? Not really sure if they eat it or play with it but the plant has been shredded down to the bulb.


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## battler (Sep 4, 2005)

don't garlic fatten up pigeons as well??

and can't garlic affect the pigeons in a negative way also? i mean it might be like steriods you know


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Kippy, I also grow pots of garlic to rotate through the flight pen. Usually, they just nibble on the greens, but occasionally will dig up the root. I generally do this two or three times a week, alternating with other pots of greens (lettuce, pansies, wild flower mix, turnips, spinach). I've never noticed any ill effects - some days they ignore it, some days they annihilate it!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tressa,


Wonderful information! Thank you!

Now, I always have fresh raw garlic in it's usual 'Bulb' form here and I eat it raw, sliced on Spinach and other leafy vegetable sandwhiches and the likes.

What would your opinion be as to using finely minced fresh raw Garlic in their food or Water?

Or, the dried kind of minced, as 'dry little Seed-sized things' they could peck?

Or, the dry-powdered Garlic, which of course is easy to get to adhere to their Seeds with a glisten of Olive Oil? I have done that a few times and everyone was fine with it, even when I had a somewhat heavy hand. But I was not sure if the dry powdered kind had retained enough of the desireable properties...


The minced fresh 'raw' would be a definte 'Crop-Warmer'...Lol... - but I would not try it unless I was sure they would abide it allright...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Phil,

I'm sure you can mince it or use it in powder form, just make sure it doesn't smell to strongly as they may not want to pick it up. 

Fresh crushed clove is probably best, unless you can get the garlic capsule or stabilized allicin. I myself have better results with my birds using the garlic capsules then the clove, because it is more concentrated.


battler,

I have never seen any negative results or overuse, I don't think you can, as it is organic, not man made, like steroids. I have never heard about ill effects of its use, unless the bird has stomach issues, (upset stomach) and you don't want to give a big dose either, or use on very young birds.


Kippy, 

It is the garlic clove, within the bulb where all the goodness is. If your birds are picking appart the cloves, then they are actually getting the "goodness of garlic". I am sure they are benefiting from the greens in different ways too.


TerriB,

I think it is wonderful that you rpovide your birds access to a variety of greens.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Treesa,

I was curious if you or your rehabber had ever used it exclusively to treat
canker?? I would think it would be good in combination w/canker meds, but wondered if ever used as a stand alone cure.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks Treesa for posting this very informative sticky on garlic. You sure have done your homework and thanks for taking the time to put it all together


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

fp,

I have never used garlic as a stand alone cure, not yet, I think the Now brand caps are sufficient for prevention, but probably not as strong as the stabilized allicin. I'm looking into using stabilized allicin, as it is more potent then garlic caps, and seems to be the key in medicinal use. I'm not sure if Doreen has, as we always use it conjunction with something else.

I'm waiting to get the go-ahead on the stabilized allicin for pigeons and then I can report the results on that. 

I have, however, used is garlic caps as a stand alone, for general purposes when my Bear had a broken leg. After 2 weeks of being on colloidal silver, Symphitum, and garlic, I discontinued to use everything except the garlic (I continued that for several months). This bird had a great molt during this time, and his feathering came in extra smooth, thick, and full of powder, it was amazing. He has a twin brother, Teddy (actually nest mate) who did not look as good as him after the molt, and he no stress of a broken leg, nor did he receive garlic caps.


Brad,

Thank you and am glad you enjoyed it.


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## Royaltypigeon (May 22, 2005)

Treesa, I sure am glad to see others using garlic besides myself. I found out about garlic a few years back, and now I'm hooked for life. For me and my birds. 
I read this article on taking an entire bulb of garlic, just pounding the cloves hard enough to break the clove open. Boil the cloves in a quart of water till half the water was gone and then adding the remaining to a gallon of water for a worming med. I've tried that a few times, but with-out a microscope, its really hard to know if it really works. And then he went on to say after that, just to mince a clove twice a week and add to a gallon of water to keep the intestines slick so the worms can't attatch themselves to the intestinal wall. And I've tried that on occasion, but I'm not that good at keeping up the practice. 
Trying to understand all the benefits of garlic and when and how to break it all down is more than I can understand. I sure hope you have it down better than myself. It's good to hear others formulas and how it works for them.
While I'm on here, I want to thank Alaska for his pixalbums web site. Its a great way to show photos on the net. You can find some of my birds and loft under "Marshloft". Oh yeah, also my boys, they love their birds.
Thanks again Treesa,
Gary H.
It used to be you had to be "Royalty" to have pigeons.
Now we treat our pigeons as "Royalty"...


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello Treesa and thanks for the beneficial information!


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## pgnanddove (Sep 3, 2003)

Hi Treesa or anyone,
I bought Jamieson Allicin Rich 100% pure garlic tablets. SInce the bottle is dark, I couldn't see if it is gel caps or not. I did not open yet. Is it good for the pigeons? and can they be fed orally 1 caps? 
please advise.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

pgnanddove said:


> I bought Jamieson Allicin Rich 100% pure garlic *tablets*. SInce the bottle is dark, I couldn't see if it is gel caps or not. I did not open yet. Is it good for the pigeons? and can they be fed orally 1 caps?
> please advise.



I myself feel the capsules are more beneficial. Nutrients encapsulated are retained in their original form,50% easier absorption, no heat or pressure used in manufacturing, and they break down easier. I have only used them and see the results. The now brand was recommended by a rehabber I know.

http://www.nowcatalog.com/1792.html

You would have to check and see if they are manufactured by cool drying or high heat processed. The high heat destroys the nutrients, cool drying is better. I can't recommend anything the tablets as I have not tried them.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> *The Goodness of Garlic (Stabilized Allicin)*
> 
> 
> Here is the garlic soft gel i am currently using: http://www.nowcatalog.com/1792.html


"NowCatalog.com is a division of Health Genesis Corporation. We are located in Bay Harbor Islands, Florida, USA, and since 1997 we have selected the most qualified chemists, doctors and bio-engineers to bring world class quality and purity into each nutritional supplement we promote. Our Mission is to favorably contribute to nutrition and health through development, production and marketing of natural products with the utmost in quality."

Health Genesis Corporation has made false claims about colloidal silver, as well as other products and received letters from the FDA. See attachement

Also, "In January 2001, District Court Judge Shelby Highsmith entered a Consent Decree of Permanent Injunction in this case with regard to defendants World Without Cancer, *Health Genesis Corporation*, and David E. Arjona. The preliminary injunction and Consent Decree of Permanent Injunction required the defendants to cease using the websites to promote the sale or offer for sale their laetrile products."

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Hearing/taylor.html

And, "On September 1, 2000, a United States District Court Judge issued a preliminary injunction against World Without Cancer, Inc., The Health World International, Inc. of Bay Harbor Island, *Health Genesis Corporation*,..." 

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It appears as though the link offered in Adobe Acrobat is an age old battle with 
the FDA and alternative health community. If claims of "curing" a medical condition are removed, then the product can still be offered. When I purchase
Golden Seal or Echinacea, the bottles make no claim and the purchaser would already have to know why they want the product. IMO, a move to protect and
keep profits in the drug companies' corner. 

After all, is the FDA really so rigorous in their scrutiny of "drug-drugs"?? How many of the ads on TV do we see with a disclaimer of side effects at the end that is read so quickly you can hardly get all of what is being said. As the person on the drug takes a walk w/their loved one on a gorgeous day, hair blowing in the wind, the announcer quickly tells you that you might develop rashes, diarhea, rapid pulse,headaches, nausea, dizzyness, and in extreme cases, strokes, etc. from using the drug. Course, FDA doesn't care how fast they say it. JMHO.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The company may have made statements that it wasn't supposed to, but the product is flying off the shelves at my health food store, so people are buying it obviously because of some healing potential.

The product this company makes, the Now brand softgel Garlic, has been used with successful results time and time again, especially with long term use. I could write a book about it, and I'm not the only one.

There are scientific studies done, clinical trials, all done by the book, and there is a lot of evidence that stabilized allicin does have anti bacterial, anti-fungul, anti-viral effects and more.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Every single day of my life, I consume: 1) ACV, 2) Blackstrap molasses, 3) Flax seed or Hemp or blend of oils (which provides a 1:1 ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6) and 4) fresh garlic.

I know the benefits of garlic. But you cannot justify something to be right because a large number of people are doing it. When Urea-Formaldehyde Foam Insulation was legal, millions of people used it. That did not make it right. 

My point was that this company has engaged in deceitful practices. Moreover, they have been lying about the benefits of colloidal silver and c.s. can be lethal to your health, if not physically, then mentally and socially.

If you wish to keep encouraging a company that has demonstrated a lack of concern for its customers, then it's your choice. 

Instead of always looking out for the miracle pill or miracle product that will do magic for your body, why don't you start by not eating crap?

The more crap you shove in your mouth, the more desperate you'll be for magical cures.

If you really care about your physical body, then stop eating meat/fish/seafood, stop consuming caffeine and alcohol. And do not go crazy on vegetables, cause we humans have the habit of using too much chemicals, not to mention genetically modified food.

The bottom line is that ALL food is poison. What differentiates one food from the other is that one will kill you faster than the other. Everytime there is growth, there is decay.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

NumberNine said:


> I know the benefits of garlic. But you cannot justify something to be right because a large number of people are doing it.
> 
> *I justify the product, not the company, it gets results. It is GARLIC, and a wonderful plus in rehab use.*
> 
> ...


**********************************************************


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi NumberNine,

I'm curious if you've seen any scientific studies evaluating the medicinal benefits
of garlic which you were positively impressed with?

Also, the health food store that I go to is pretty pro-active when it comes to which products they will offer, and they do carry Now products. I have other favorites that I've used over the years so I get into my familiar mode when I shop there, but Now is on their shelves.

fp


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/Garlicch.html

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache....pdf+garlic+scientific+study+university&hl=en

http://www.wright.edu/admin/fredwhite/pharmacy/popular_nremedies.html

http://www.bastyr.edu/research/bucrc/activities.asp

http://meded.ucsd.edu/isp/2003/thomas/herb_garlic.html

"*Adverse Effects, Contraindications, Drug Interactions*:

"Physician and patient alike should be aware of some potentially serious complications that arise from ingestion of garlic.

"Patients on anti-coagulant therapies as well as surgical patients need to understand the importance of reporting garlic use due to its effects on bleeding.

"One case study demonstrated the INR of a patient stabilized on warfarin doubling, and the development of hematuria 8 weeks after beginning a 3 garlic tablet per day regimen.9

"Another describes bilateral retrobulbar hemorrhage in a 54 year old patient undergoing strabismus surgery. The patient recalled taking odorless garlic on a regular basis prior to surgery, and 5 tablets the day before surgery.2

"Another potentially dangerous effect of garlic stems from its actions on the pharmacokinetics of protease inhibitors taken by AIDS patients.

"In the presence of garlic, the mean saquinavir area under the curve (AUC) during the 8 hour dosing interval decreased by 51% and mean maximum concentration decreased 54% in one study.6

"Other potential adverse effects: dizziness, headache, irritability, nausea, vomiting, anorexia, GERD, irritation of oral mucosa. 

http://www.centerwatch.com/patient/studies/stu48962.html

http://www.immunecentral.com/infotemplate.cfm-1693-69-1

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/10/001004072443.htm

"This is speculation, but it might be that we saw no benefits from garlic supplements because the active ingredients are being destroyed in processing or by sitting on store shelves for a long time," Arab said. "Another possibility is that some of the people who turn to garlic supplements are sick already. That could skew the results."


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

> If you really care about your physical body, then stop eating meat/fish/seafood, stop consuming caffeine and alcohol. And do not go crazy on vegetables, cause we humans have the habit of using too much chemicals, not to mention genetically modified food.[


This discussion - and its sibling on Colloidal Silver - is going way off track.

What any individual eats or drinks is their choice and is not the business of anyone else. 

And, *people* choosing to chomp on garlic cloves - or even wear it round their necks to ward off vampires - is not really relevant on this board, either. 

As far as pigeon health is concerned: our aviary pigeons get a good mix of food consisting of numerous grains, seeds and legumes, some lettuce, and - now and then - mineral block to provide the extra minerals, calcium and trace elements they'd get from the earth if they were outside. They get a good pigeon grit, fresh water, fresh air and (if we're lucky  ) sunshine. They occasionally may get some probiotics or vitamin supplement but, on the whole, just good basic stuff. 

If other folk want to give their birds extra things for some real or perceived health benefit on a regular basis, fine, but unless I see a bird which appears to be lacking something I'll just run with what we do.

John


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thanks John,

I think we needed to get back on track like you said and the discussion was drifting off into other realms


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