# Church in NY trapped pigeons in net,now left to die-can anonye help??



## Kailey lane (Jun 8, 2009)

i saw this news piece, this church has put out a net and trapped birds,they are dead and dieing of starvation and dehydration .thought id share the link.it does not say they are pigeon but the pic kinda looks like one.im hoping someone can help if they are in NY as im am far away.http://our-compass.org/2012/06/02/urge-church-officials-to-free-trapped-birds/


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

FYI - We should all think about trying to help in this situation! But be aware that the source of the story is PETA! Please read the story and make your personal decision to help based on the facts of the story.


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## SciroccoJay (Jun 3, 2012)

Just rmailed and called and left a message at the church. I live in new york and will be making a trip to the church next saturday if not earlier.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I posted on my FB page. I'll call tomorrow.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I also just emailed and left a phone message, but I'll go on site to see what can be done.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Kind of Ironic. Churches are supposed to care for all living things. And yet they are letting them starve, a cruel death. DIng! think something is wrong with their brains, 'cuz they sure don't seem like christens or however thats spelled.


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## Kailey lane (Jun 8, 2009)

thanks guys for the fast response! i dont see why the church staff wouldn't let someone come take the birds out instead of letting them die,i dont se why they would say no. im hoping someone can get them out,it is so tragic.i find this very sad and completely unnecessary.


please keep us updated with any info.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Kailey lane said:


> thanks guys for the fast response! i dont see why the church staff wouldn't let someone come take the birds out instead of letting them die....if they said no to that ,they would have be just be down right cold hearted! im hoping someone can get them out,it is so tragic.i find this very sad and completely unnecessary.
> 
> @SciroccoJay ,Charis and nycpigeonlady -thank you for what you have done and/or will do for these birds,im very thankful!!!
> 
> ...



Actually, in this case, my concerns were for the birds. We have just had a few mini wars on here about PETA and wanted to get that out of the way so people could still help out based on the actual story. It is these kind of stories where an organization as big as PETA can reach a lot of people.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Here we go on PETA again.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I am hoping not. As stated, this one isn't about PETA. It's about a story that was brought forward by them to get some help in dealing with this concern.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Here we go on PETA again.


NO, "we" don't.. the story here is about these pigeons not peta.. IMO it should stay that way.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Your opinion is correct!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Heck...I will even second that (although please be aware that the intimation of the comment made above was a bit unnecessary besides being highly debatable (and has been debated _elsewhere_); IMHO it never needed to be interjected into this thread to begin with).

Can a NYC member (Scirocco, PigeonLady ?) there contact Animal Control ? if not them, then at least www.nycprc.org.

I think once this becomes exposed to a wider audience or authority it will be rectified, properly....


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Kind of Ironic. Churches are supposed to care for all living things. And yet they are letting them starve, a cruel death. DIng! think something is wrong with their brains, 'cuz they sure don't seem like christens or however thats spelled.



An astute observation ....they must'a somehow missed the whole Saint Francis thing.....


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

WHAT!?!?!
What church is this? Is this true?
WTF!
I am a Catholic.
With all the trouble the Catholic hierarchy has been having in the past , the last thing they need to do in further muck up their image with this sort of thing.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

NYCpigeonlady please keep us updated!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Jaye said:


> Heck...I will even second that (although please be aware that the intimation of the comment made above was a bit unnecessary besides being highly debatable (and has been debated _elsewhere_); IMHO it never needed to be interjected into this thread to begin with).
> 
> Can a NYC member (Scirocco, PigeonLady ?) there contact Animal Control ? if not them, then at least www.nycprc.org.
> 
> I think once this becomes exposed to a wider audience or authority it will be rectified, properly....


The original comment was to make people think about the issue, not who the source was. It was not my intention to start another discussion. Some people might see who the source was and not read the rest of the story. I hope this can be the end of ANY PETA discussion and that we will stay focused on the real issue of the church causing the death of these birds.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi....sounds good to me.....just pointing out it could have been interpreted in a number of ways.....glad the intent wasn't in that fashion.....


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm sorry to bring you such sad news, but all the pigeons caught in the netting are dead. According to the workmen/maintenance men who are dealing with the netting, the dead pigeons were removed two days ago, and there were no live ones left at the time – sadly after this thread was posted. I couldn't get a sense of how many pigeons had died. 

While I was at the church today looking around, I was approached by another woman who guessed correctly why I was there. She was a PETA volunteer and is also a member of PT. Together we approached to two maintenance people and asked them to show us the pigeons and the netting. This is large Catholic church on a corner and there is no netting visible from the outside, so it was very astute of the person who noticed the netting, as it is in the courtyard of the church. The maintenance people were polite and helpful and showed us what we wanted to see which is entirely on private property. The netting is on the wall so as to protect the windows, which have these wire cage-type encasements that he birds perch on. 

They said they had received a lot of emails, so had dealt with the problem two days ago. We tried to talk them out of using netting altogether, but that didn’t look too realistic, so at least they promised us that they will secure the netting in such a way that pigeons cannot get in and get trapped inside. We asked them to call a couple of organizations that would be happy to come and pick up the birds if they ever find a trapped one again - The Wild Bird Fund being one of them.

The wonderful woman that I made friends with lives in the neighborhood, so will be back to check on things in a couple of days. Most importantly, she can check periodically to see that the netting is kept up without gaps occurring, which is great for the pigeons as well as for me – it’s more than a two hour trip in both directions for me, and I don’t know that I would have made the trip often enough. Anyway, she’ll let me know in a couple of days how things are going, and I’ll keep you updated on the situation.

Eva


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Thank you so much for making the trip. This only proves what we already knew and that is that you are a very caring individual. I only wish the outcome could have been different. 

Please let your new friend know that we appreciate her concern also, if you get a chance to talk with her again? If she is on PT, thank you for your caring. Thanks to all here who took the time to respond to this. 

This is a very sad ending to a very bad story. It sounds like the intention was justified, but the reaction went horribly wrong. We can only hope that the church has learned from this and will keep the netting in a way that won't hurt or kill any more birds.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

almondman said:


> Thank you so much for making the trip....


No, thank YOU all - it was all the emails and phone calls that prompted them to act, and it is the prospect of the public outcry that will prompt them to maintain their netting. Sadly, for most people avoiding hassle is a greater motivator than compassion.

Making phone calls, sending emails or signing petitions can sometimes seem like such a far removed way to act, that we sometimes feel like it's hardly any use, but it really can make a difference. Too late for these poor pigeons unfortunately.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Eva....thank you for making the trip and thank you form letting us know their fate,


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## Kailey lane (Jun 8, 2009)

aww that is just so sadim hoping it doesn't happen again.sorry i kinda wasted everyone times by posting it,i had no idea they were already gone nycpigeonlady- im so thankful you made the trip and that now someone is keeping an eye on this place.thank you!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

It is not a waste of time if it raised the awareness of the church to a problem that needed to be dealt with. Hopefully no more birds will die because you and many others cared enough to bring it to their attention. 

It is a sad ending, but it also showed what people can accomplish when they care enough to take action.

Thank you for bringing this to PT.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That's so sad Eva, thanks for the news though. I really liked the suggestions you made to the maintenence guys about how to secure the netting in a way where more birds won't get trapped. It sounds like the long trip was worth it just for that IMO.

PS. nice that you made a friend too!


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Good job Eva , thanks for getting involved !


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Great Job Eva
I personally do not think we needed to be made aware that PETA were the source of the story but seen it has been bought to my attention I would like to say that If Peta were the source of this story then maybe we should have a little more respect for some of what they do, I mean obviously awarness was needed in this situation and they made people aware of the subject - Not in the helpful concerned way that Eva has but atleast they did their bit aswell.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for going Eva. That was really wonderful of you to have done. And thanks for letting us know. You are very caring.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Great Job Eva
> I personally do not think we needed to be made aware that PETA were the source of the story but seen it has been bought to my attention I would like to say that If Peta were the source of this story then maybe we should have a little more respect for some of what they do, I mean obviously awarness was needed in this situation and they made people aware of the subject - Not in the helpful concerned way that Eva has but atleast they did their bit aswell.


Earlier comments have been explained and I feel they are still justified. PETA's help in this matter has been recognized and appreciation given. We also recognized that a PETA volunteer was also at the church. 

NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID. We are not going to go down this road again!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes, thank you for going, I really wanted to know what was happening there..sorry there was not even one to save.. perhaps they will call if this happens again.. you're trip was well intentioned.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

...very sad..


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you NYCpigeonlady for taking the long drive out there and speaking up.
Your one action will make a difference for the pigeons.
Thank you.
I am sick to my stomach that the church allowed this to happen.
I am embarrassed to be called a Catholic. :-(


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

almondman said:


> Earlier comments have been explained and I feel they are still justified. PETA's help in this matter has been recognized and appreciation given. We also recognized that a PETA volunteer was also at the church.
> 
> NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID. We are not going to go down this road again!


Almondman if bringing something up on a thread you need to be prepared for a discussion surrounding it. I think the NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID is a little hypocritical considering you bought it up. Just some thoughts for next time. You should not put your opinion or thoughts onto a thread and then try and block anyone else from putting there two cents in on the subject you have raised.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone, but really all the thanks should go to Kailey Lane who made us aware of what going on. 

It’s a very sad situation beyond the deaths of these particular pigeons (which is obviously heartbreaking). The impression that I got from speaking to the people there wasn't even that they actively hated pigeons, (although maintenance people are rarely friends of pigeons) but just that the birds were totally invisible to them the way the cracks in the pavement are to most - we see them, we know they're there but we don't think about it until we trip on one. I really don't know if they saw the birds were trapped, but that ultimately doesn't matter, because the outcome would have been just the same. They seemed genuinely perplexed that someone could even be concerned about such a matter. In fact they asked us, if we are willing to expand so much energy about this, why don't we do something about all the bars cropping up in their neighborhood and setting a bad example for their kids since their neighborhood is a last remaining enclave in an otherwise totally gentrified lower Manhattan. They themselves feel victimized and ignored and can’t understand all the attention over mere pigeons. And that’s the really unfortunate thing – that their attitude is the norm. They did not strike me as particularly monstrous individuals, just very regular folk with their problems and concerns for whom pigeons don’t register anywhere in the moral universe the way that roaches don’t for most of us. 

But I also think they had simply never though about it and perhaps now (or maybe that’s just wishful thinking) they’ll see things in a slightly different way. 

And yes, PETA (an organization whose work I personally respect and support) was the source of the story and deserves props for it, as Almondman has already mentioned.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Almondman if bringing something up on a thread you need to be prepared for a discussion surrounding it. I think the NO MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID is a little hypocritical considering you bought it up. Just some thoughts for next time. You should not put your opinion or thoughts onto a thread and then try and block anyone else from putting there two cents in on the subject you have raised.


NZ - ENOUGH - we have both had our say on the other concern. I am not willing to sabotage this thread on your behalf. It's time to move on. Unless you have other thoughts on the subject of pigeons dying at the church, our discussion is over.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

almondman said:


> NZ - ENOUGH - we have both had our say on the other concern. I am not willing to sabotage this thread on your behalf. It's time to move on. Unless you have other thoughts on the subject of pigeons dying at the church, our discussion is over.


My thoughts were to do with pigeons dying at the church, I was saying how I thought PETA were a great help in this situation and I commend their efforts aswell as Evas


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

> In fact they asked us, if we are willing to expand so much energy about this, why don't we do something about all the bars cropping up in their neighborhood and setting a bad example for their kids since their neighborhood is a last remaining enclave in an otherwise totally gentrified lower Manhattan.


Ah People, Eva! I care about people , and yet these sorts of comments are so arrogant and diminishing. Notice how this comment made you out to be the guys...its as if they are saying that since you have a heart, you should only care about the distant future of their offspring, how dare you have other priories, they are not important. I suppose they were trying to deflect attention from the fact that they watched a whole lot of living creatures suffer and die slowly , and noone lifted a finger. And their heartlessness has been noticed by the media and individuals.


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