# Help with bully male



## mtripOH (Jan 4, 2010)

The tables have turned in our loft. We first started with 2 pairs, 1 a mated homer pair and the other 2 were a young mix of homer and roller. Both of the original hens have passed for unexplained reasons. A little over a week ago we added 2 new homer hens and a pair of white fan tails. The original homer male seemed to be the king of the roost and for the most part the 2 males got along alright. Before the addition of the new birds last week it seemed to me that the younger male was trying to dominate the homer male. It also appeared to me that the homer male might have been losing weight. I have been spending a lot of time sitting outside the loft and watching the pigeons interact. It seems that the younger male keeps the older male from really interacting with the others and if the the older male goes to the food the younger one will immediately chase him off. I put some seed in another area and the older one went right to it with the same thing happening. We put a large dog crate in the loft and put the younger male in it. He was not happy about that. The older male seemed quite happy about it flew over to join the other pigeons. Is this a problem? Will they work things out amongst themselves or are we going to need to keep the younger male separated from the others? I am sorry this is so long and I will be very appreciative of any advice.
~melissa


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When I had a male doing that, plus he was hasseling everyone else, a friend told me to remove him from the loft for about a week, and not let him hear or see the other birds. I did that, and when he was returned to the loft, the same thing happened, nothing had changed. I again removed him, this time for about 2 weeks. When returned to the loft, his statis was lost, as another had moved up. This time, when he started to bully, the newer matriarch went after him. He stopped bullying and is now a nice bird. Try it. It worked for me. I don't let them bully each other. I'm there a lot and so don't miss too much. I like a peaceful loft. Let us know what you do, and how it works. I wouldn't just let them work it out, as the older bird will suffer. Especially where he is keeping him from the feed.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

The old cock of the roost has been toppled. They might work it out but sounds to hard on old boy ,separation sounds best.


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## mtripOH (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks Ross and Jay3! It sounds like we will need to divide our loft. Our loft is actually in a corner of our garage. Should I set the crate outside the loft and put a drape over the sides so he can not see the other birds? He will still hear them. I would have to bring the crate into the house to have total separation, which might be doable once I butter up the hubby! LOL!! I can not believe the change in the older male since putting the bully in the crate about 8 hours ago. Before putting the bully up it seemed like the other birds were shunning him and he seemed lonely. I hope they can someday all live happily.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Try taking him out of the loft and covering the cage side that faces the loft. You don't want to keep him in total darkness. When I do that, I just bring them in the house and put them in a cage. No worse than having a parrot. How old is the bully bird? Sometimes they outgrow it.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Usually they do work it out themselves. I believe you have the sufficient loft space to accomodate 6 pigeons. The cycle becomes mostly balanced when the bullying male is incubating eggs, thats the close to natural process. If not you can remove and reintroduce the cock or try using a safety pin or paper clip to join 2 - 3 flights of the wing together for a couple of days. This method had worked fine with some of the bullies but be careful about it and only contain the birds flight by a bit.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

mtripOH said:


> The tables have turned in our loft. We first started with 2 pairs, 1 a mated homer pair and the other 2 were a young mix of homer and roller. Both of the original hens have passed for unexplained reasons. A little over a week ago we added 2 new homer hens and a pair of white fan tails. The original homer male seemed to be the king of the roost and for the most part the 2 males got along alright. Before the addition of the new birds last week it seemed to me that the younger male was trying to dominate the homer male. It also appeared to me that the homer male might have been losing weight. I have been spending a lot of time sitting outside the loft and watching the pigeons interact. It seems that the younger male keeps the older male from really interacting with the others and if the the older male goes to the food the younger one will immediately chase him off. I put some seed in another area and the older one went right to it with the same thing happening. We put a large dog crate in the loft and put the younger male in it. He was not happy about that. The older male seemed quite happy about it flew over to join the other pigeons. Is this a problem? Will they work things out amongst themselves or are we going to need to keep the younger male separated from the others? I am sorry this is so long and I will be very appreciative of any advice.
> ~melissa



Im sure you will get plenty of advice about the bully male. sometimes if you take them out for a few weeks and try again he goes down a peg or two... but on another topic. Did you quarantine your new birds..you said you had two hens die not knowing why.. when you have new birds coming in alot, problems can come up.. you should quarantine to check health and droppings... it may seem over kill, but you do not want to bring sickness to your whole flock you worked so hard for.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. 

How long did you have the hens? Did they have mates? It would be good if you could get an idea of what happened to them, so it won't happen again.

It is good you seperated the older male and continue to keep a close eye out. I can appreciate you spending alot of time observing, it really lets you get to know your birds. The younger male is coming into his own and will continue his behavior, and may get worse. A mate for him will definitely help, or another male introduced that he can spar with and not dominate.

I have a male who came into the loft and upset the balance. I had to remove him and have done this many times but he continues to bully, he is an older male but has alpha personality. He is getting a new home AND a mate, as I have seperated him from the others, but it is not good for him-as pigeons are social creatures. . The mate will occupy his time and will certainly help when egg hatching duties come about.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Trees Gray said:


> Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
> *
> How long did you have the hens? Did they have mates?* It would be good if you could get an idea of what happened to them, so it won't happen again.
> 
> ...


I think she originally bought 2 pairs, and the 2 hens died. Leaving the 2 cocks alone.


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## mtripOH (Jan 4, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> Did you quarantine your new birds..you said you had two hens die not knowing why.. when you have new birds coming in alot, problems can come up.. you should quarantine to check health and droppings... it may seem over kill, but you do not want to bring sickness to your whole flock you worked so hard for.


Thank you spirit wings for your input. No, we did not quarantine the birds. The four new birds are going Friday to see the vet for a check up. A question about quarantining however. When you quarantine birds do you put them into separate lofts? If you have just 1 loft can you just divide the loft? I am thinking that some illnesses are airborne so being in totally different lofts makes sense to me.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, quarantine to a seperate loft, not inside the coop.

I'm glad you are taking them to see the vet.


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## mtripOH (Jan 4, 2010)

Trees Gray said:


> How long did you have the hens? Did they have mates? It would be good if you could get an idea of what happened to them, so it won't happen again.


Hi Trees Gray. We started with 2 pairs in January. 1 was a mated pair of homers. The hen of that pair died after about a month or so. She seemed to be fine however she was very docile and did not mind being handled compared to the other 3 pigeons. The other pair were young loft mates that were a mix of homer and roller. That hen died nearly a month ago. She was sitting in her bowl seemingly alright one moment then 10 minutes later she was panting and gasping for air and died in my husbands hands. This left us with 2 cock birds one a late 09 bird and the other 08.


Trees Gray said:


> A mate for him will definitely help, or another male introduced that he can spar with and not dominate.


The bully has paired up with one of the hens we just added. As long as the older cock stayed in his little area that the bully kept him in all would be fine. But the moment the older male strayed out of this small area the bully would be all over him, even if the bully was in his nest box with his hen. We have let his hen join him in the crate as he was getting quite upset about being in the crate. I believe they had mated the same morning that we had moved him into the crate. They are happy in there together and all seems to be fine. Any input if we should not have put the hen in with him would be appreciated.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

mtripOH said:


> Thank you spirit wings for your input. No, we did not quarantine the birds. The four new birds are going Friday to see the vet for a check up. A question about quarantining however. When you quarantine birds do you put them into separate lofts? If you have just 1 loft can you just divide the loft? I am thinking that some illnesses are airborne so being in totally different lofts makes sense to me.


Quarantine essentially means the bird doesnot share the food, water, floor space (droppings) with other birds. Since mites. mosquitoes can also transfer diseases from one pigeon to another, it is advised that the quarantined pigeon is as isolated as possible from the rest of the group.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I quaranteen my birds by putting them in a very large cage that I made safe for them and bring them into my home to observe and give them food and water each day. I keep them completely away from other birds and in my opinion a separate loft would not be good because if they are carrying anything if you have to use that loft for other birds down the room they might get something from the environment where the new bird was kept (if the new bird had anything) so I put them in a large cage or very large dog carrier or something you could make up that would be very secure for the birdie..c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I quarantine mine in the house where I can watch them and interact with them as well. They ideally should be kept from the other birds for a month. 

As far as putting the bullys mate in with him. I don't. I keep him by himself. If he gets upset............oh well. He should be alone. Where he can't see or hear the others. Knock him down a peg. If you do it this way for a couple of weeks and it doesn't work, then try locking him up alone. I'd keep an eye on him to make sure that he doesn't pick on the hen, as he will be upset and make take it out on her.


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## sgtpouter (Jan 19, 2007)

I keep homers and pouters ofcourse seperately and i have two males that couldnt stand eachother the youger one always bullied my 08 bird i use to separte them when they start fighting i dont know it it would work for you but afteer about a month of keeping them away from eachother i released them toghter and they went at it wing slapping and pecking at eachother and i cpuldnt seperate them cause they were on the roof of the house until finaly they younger one flew off to another roof .And the older one won that battle til this day they became best for friends flying in perfect harmony togther i think they just needed to establish who the king of the coop was . I dont recomend it but it seemed to work great for me even though i was afraid one would scalp the other luckly that wasnt the case.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

When my male birds start I get my broom and not to hurt them but just to separate them and I make a lot of noise and I make sure that one of them flys outside to the outside loft and usually this helps them to take a break until next time and I do the same thing. Usually their fighting is over a perch area or a nest front or one of them is standing too close to the other and this can be worse in the spring time when they are all feeling their oats (so to speak) Its a natural kind of king of the roost thing and eventually they will get over it and pick on someone else--just keep a eye on them but not too much because it does get nerve wreaking and thats when I get the broom with a stomp of the feet and chirping and entering the area and they keep at it until I actually separate them and make one fly out the window to the outside loft for a time out..Gradually they become friends or I should say patient with each other. I find the more you separate the bully or the other one the rougher it is to introduce him back to the loft so let them fight it out and see what happens--but don't be around--drink a nice cup of tea and figure them being wild birds and you can't control it anyway---but if you right there mtripOH get your broom...c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I haven't had a problem with separating the bully, and then introducing him back into the loft. The others don't bother him when he comes back in. That's because the others aren't the problem. The bully is the problem, and when he comes back in, he has lost his standing, and behaves. Take him out, and if it doesn't work, then take him out longer. Eventually it usually works.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thats good too for I usually make the bully fly out the window to the outside loft and I think this drops him a note with his ego..Whatever works Jay3--whatever works..c.hert


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