# Orphan crow but I'm going away for 9 days...



## Bella_F

Over the last 4 days, a beautiful young blue eyed crow has been living in my back yard. He's such a heart-breaker- so young and innocent, and not yet afraid of things that he should be afraid of. I think its a fledgling, just out of the nest, that has either been pushed out of its nest on purpose, or flew out of its nest for the first time and became lost. 

There are two adult crows around, who `own' this territory (my yard), and 3-4 other nest sites in the general area. We live in the suburbs of an Australian city, but there is bushland close by and a lot of tall, thick trees in our yard. 

I've been watching closely for 4 days, and i am certain that the adult crows don't feed it. When it follows them gaping for food, they attack it. But apart from that, they mostly tolerate it, and talk to it a lot, but they don't act like parents. We have seen them raise young before, and they are very good parents. I can only speculate, but perhaps they kicked it out of the nest due to too large a clutch, or its someone else's baby?

It can fly enough to evade attack and find a roost at night, but it lacks confidence and coordination, and only really flies 2-3 times a day, to roost or sometimes when it is startled. Its gets very hungry and thirsty during the day, so i leave minced meat, chicken bones (with meat on them) , and compost scraps for it, and a lot of water around (I leave these things for other birds too) There are plenty of bugs and lizards in the yard, so I hope he's eating them too, but I don't know.

The part that wrenching my heart is I have to leave on holidays in 8 days. I'll be gone for 9 days in total. I'm confident that it will be able to fly, but I'm not sure about its food supply. I have a sinking feeling that the poor little guy is going to die when I'm gone. 

He's not tame enough to catch (and I don't want to do that). Also, I'm trying not to interact too much with it, in hope that it will learn from the other crows and become part of their pack. 

What I'm wondering is there any kind of food can leave around for it, that will last 9 days? LIke would cat kibble help, or am just fooling myself? 

What would you guys do?


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## PigeonQueen

I would cancel my holiday.


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## Revolution Lofts

hmmm well we have a lot of crows around here...thank god too...pigeon savers  They would eat just about anything. Now my neighbors are east indians and sometimes they have left over "roti" and they drain it in water, so its soggy and eat able and they chuck it out side, and its gone in less than 5 minutes. You could do the same thing with bread. But that won't work for a long term thing. Hmmm you are here for 8 more days you say. So hopefully by then it will be more matured. Don't worry about it, well you would since you are now some what attached to this single crow. But nature is very weird. I'm sure he'll be fine. Give him a few more days. From the sound of it, he sounds like a pigeon at 3-4 weeks after hatching...just about to be on its own, but still "needs" or i should say "wants" just give him a day. Birds are by far some of the most curious creatures.


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## Maggie-NC

I would be worried about it too. We have a family of crows that live with us too . Oddly, I can hardly distinguish the fledglings from the adults because they don't bring them to our yard until the babies are almost as large as the parents. We have had one exception and it didn't end well for the baby. I will always believe the parents brought it to our yard for safety and told it to stay there. The baby was obviously not well and we tried for days to catch it only succeeding when it got very weak and it died before we could get it to the vet.

Do you have neighbors or relatives or close friends who would mix up a batch of food for him at least every other day? Do you actually see it eat the food you put out for it? I'm hoping the parents are trying to wean it but it still seems suspicious to me.


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## spirit wings

you can use one of those cat self feeders and put cat food and whole corn in it, but get it before you leave to see if he knows where it is and do the same with the waterer. this may attract other critters also, but atleast he would have some food untill you get back.


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## Bella_F

Thanks so much for your replies- its amazing to find so many caring and really helpful people on a forum. Thanks!

With regards to the adults, this pair are interesting. They get targeted as hosts for an enormous type of cuckoo that migrates here each year, called `channel billed cuckoos'. They are much bigger than a crow, with huge bills, very much like a horn-bill. The year before last, the crows raised two of them, and last year they raised one, and still managed to raise a couple of young of their own.

When raising cuckoos of such a huge size, I imagine its easy for the parents to become over-stretched. Also, if they are like most cuckoos, they will sometimes boot other family members from the nest. 

I don't know if this happened, but it could explain why they are not feeding the baby, and why the orphan keeps following them around gaping.

Today the orphan started begging for food in its roosting tree at about 7 am. It begged for about an hour, but the adults didn't feed it, they just took sme food for themselves. When I came outside and called to it, it was so hungry that it flew eagerly in my direction and face-planted into a bush near to where i was standing. It then spend about 10 minutes trying to climb up the bush into a good position to fly down to the ground (its such an unco little thing). It finally made it to the ground, but what an ordeal!

I fed it mince scraps which it gobbled down hungrily, and then it drank some water in my bird bath. 

It spent he next hour foraging near the adult crows, trying to work out what to eat on the ground. He was begging them for food but not getting anything, just a peck when it got too close. After a while he sat in a bush. Its preening itself and looking settled now. 

I feel a bit better knowing that he's spending time around crows and observing how they act. He was digging around in the dirt and picking up sticks, kind of mimicking what they were doing. 

I will have my fingers crossed that in 8 days he'll be stronger and getting some of his own food. I wish i had a neighbor who could help, but our neighbour doesn't like birds and would never help.


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## Charis

Bella...the way Crows work, is as a family. The young from the previous year remain with the parents to learn how to be parents. For this reason, it seem very odd to me that this little guy has no family about. It's certainly not impossible but unusual for sure.
I'm wondering if they are trying to teach him how to find food. Still, Crows are generally very diligent parents. Dry cat food would be great to feed him.


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## Bella_F

I bought some dry cat food at the shops today; I'll see if I can get him used to expecting to find it in the same place each day. I really like the idea of leaving a cat food dispenser. 

Charis, I don't really understand the adult behaviour towards the young one. Last year they were very attentive to their juveniles, and fed them (as well as their cuckoo child). This one is much younger though- he still has blue eyes and brown feathers. They are acting completely differently.


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## Reti

I was going to mention too to leave out dry cat or dog food in a daily dispensing feeder. They also sell automatic waterers. I would add some apple cider vinegar to the water so it stays somewhat fresh for a few days.
When hungry enough she will find the food sourse, I am sure. 
Thank you for caring for this baby. Hope he will be alright.

Reti


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## Bella_F

Hi Reti,

Thanks for the tip for keeping water fresh! Thats great to know..

Yesterday the little guy was wandering a lot, and I'm not sure that it will come back to my place. I heard him crying out in distress up the street around mid-day, and I found him in the front yard of a house where a cat lives. That cat sometimes kills the doves in our yard, so I was beside myself with worry. 

I coaxed the crow towards my house with some food, but when I tried to give it water, I scared it & it flew across the road over to a park. It tried to fly the length of the park, but only made it half way before landing clumsily. It walked around a bit, and then flew into a tree. It still struggles with lift-off and landing, and lacks confidence. But it looks like it is a day or so away from strong flying, thankfully.

I gave it one more feed in the park before bed time, & left a water container close by. I went home balling my eyes out. Man, its just such a beautiful little bird, and nothing responds to its distress or its pleas for food. Its just so hard to see a little bird in that state. And i feel so conflicted- I know it would be so bad for it if it depends on me; it needs crows and I need to detach. But what if I'm all that's keeping it alive?

Today I am going to do my best to give it a chance to find its own food and take care of itself. I won't let it starve, but I don't want to kill it with kindness either.


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## Bella_F

(A Happy) UPDATE:

Well, I totally caved on the idea of not feeding it. It perched in a tree in the park for the entire day, no crows in sight, and no company except for a few swoops from smaller birds. I tried to talk myself into the idea that maybe it was being fed by its parents in stealth or something. But by its cries, I could tell that I was fooling myself. Its such a heart-wrenching sound, its pleas for food.

So I brought it chicken, some minced meat, and left a bowl of water under its tree. It came down for the minced meat, but didn't drink, and it struggled to get down and back into the tree. Its just so young. Before nightfall, I placed minced meat pieces up on a branch and it sidled down and ate them all up hungrily.

I cried myself to sleep last night. I was so worried about going away and it starving. My partner loves my caring nature but he hates seeing me hurting. He was trying to convince me to leave it and let nature take its course. But I am woman, he is man. Its in my blood to love, and protect, and care for the gentle, helpless things. I can't stop myself, unless I could find a reason that it was wrong to do it. And I can't.

I found it again this morning, not in the park any more but on a road-side tree. It didn't come down for food, lacking confidence in flying and not having a great place to land. I left the food, but it didn't come down to eat it.

It was raining this afternoon, and I went looking for it. I heard its cries, and looked around for it.

Then the most amazing thing happened. A person who lives in a house ajoining the park called out ot me, and asked if I need an umbrella. I told him what I was doing there and he said he had been looking after it too! He even has a name for it I told him I was so relieved because I'm going on holidays, and he said he loves birds too and he would be looking out for it.

Now I feel much better! I will still care for it, and it won't die when I go away! Maybe there is hope that when it can fly it will join the other crows. 

That guy is my saviour. Thank God for animal lovers. They are the best people in the world.


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## Charis

Personally Bella...I would collect the bird, bring it inside and feed it really well and get some weight on it and figure it out from there. I know you are going away but maybe your neighbor could intervene in that way. I just don't think it's ready and it does seem like it is an orphan.


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## Bella_F

Charis,
Its a good idea, but it is not a tame bird, and it likes to be high up in the tops of tall trees now. When I throw it food on the ground, I cross to the other side of the park for it to come down. I thought that taming a crow could destroy its chances of re-socialising into crow culture? I'd have to tame it to catch it, and thats the problem. Or do you think I should try? I'm scared of doing the wrong thing.


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## Charis

Bella...it's such a hard call. If it's not tame at all and wary of humans, I guess it's best to leave it be. This really tugs at my heart too and I understand why you are so worried about him.


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## Bella_F

Oh Charis, thanks for your understanding! I've been in agony, and I consider myself pretty strong, kind of. I think I just can't stand to see something so beautiful, and needy, and curious be abandoned like that. I don't understand. 

The local crows talk to it at least, especially in the morning; there seem to be 3 major families within vocal range. I really hope it can join one of those families when it can fly confidently. Crows can be good like that.

The park is a pretty safe area, that's where it is sitting now. Actually its in that man's yard, which is better. he saud he's been feeding it chicken and minced beef too, like me. Maybe it will grow fast, if we can just keep it eating.


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## Charis

*YOu might enjoy this book...*

Well...let's pray for the best then.

http://www.amazon.com/Bird-Brains-Intelligence-Ravens-Magpies/dp/0871569566


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## Charis

Bella...the following is an interesting story about crows too. It's sad but very informative as far as the family structure.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3937510


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## TAWhatley

Bella,

Where EXACTLY is this crow located? I'll be happy to post the location and information on my crows list in case any of those members happen to be in the area and can help look out for this bird.

Bless you for your care and concern for this bird! I don't have any easy answers for you, but it IS encouraging that you have found another person who is looking after this bird. 

Terry


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## Bella_F

Thank you so much Charis for the links, I am trying to learn everything I can. I am so eager to make the best choices regarding its wellbeing.

TAWatley,
This is an Australian `Torresian' Crow; I am in Australia. Do you know anyone here in Australia who could help? I am in Brisbane, in QLD Australia. It is probably more like what Americans would call a raven, due to its size; I think John Gould initially classified all Australian crows as `ravens ' because they are all quite big.

We have a wild-life rescue organisation called wires, but they don't look after abandoned birds because there are so many. They normally only take in injured animals and marsupials. If it were starving, they might help though (lets hope it doesn't come to that).


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## TAWhatley

Thanks for the info, Bella. I'll get it onto my crows list and a couple of others. Years ago, a good internet friend of mine was a rehabber associated with WIRES. Sadly, she kinda dropped off the planet .. haven't heard from her in several years. I'll see what I can do to rustle up some help for your crow.

Terry


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## Bella_F

Thanks heaps Terry, you're the best! We could use all the help we can get with this little guy. 

If it starts to look too weak to fly, or it becomes tame, I think wires could help me. But with it being wild and uninjured, I don't know...last time i called them about a fallen bird they said they didn't have the resources to help `with every bird that falls out of a nest'.... I am still hoping that it has a chance of resocialising with crows when it can fly. 

I gave it a good feed tonight, it was so cute. It doesn't like flying down from tree tops, because it spends ages scrambling and fluttering its way up there. So I spent about 20 minutes showing it the food, and tossing it to a place on the ground where i thought it might feel safe to land. All the while it was crying out for food with its soft `whaaa, whaaa' sound. 

It finally flew down, and landed a couple of meters from me instead of near the food. I tossed it a huge chunk of minced meat, I think this was its first food for the day. It gobbled it down, and took a second piece up to a fence to eat it. 

It let me put some more meat on the fence for it, but it `hid' behind a long stalk of some kind of vine. When I took a few steps back, it came out from its `hiding place' and sidled up to get the food. After 5 pieces of meat, it was tamer and probably could have taken it out of my hand. Its not what I'm trying to do though. I just want to make it strong enough to fly.

It seems to be licking water from vine leaves, since it rained a lot today. Smart little thing. The neighbour told me had seen it trying to crack open shelled peanuts today too. I don't normally pray, but I'm praying for this one.


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## Bella_F

Its been a day and one morning since my last post, with about 3 days until I leave. We leave at 6 am in the morning in 3 days time, but I will make some time to leave some food for it beforehand.

Its been wandering a lot around the block, doing some longer `flies'. It seems to be following the voices of crows in various directions, and maybe exploring.

I saw it associating with a different pair of adult crows yesterday at noon. It was gaping and begging like crazy, but they took the food I had thrown on the ground for it, and left. But one adult kept a chunk of food in its mouth and climbed up near the baby; I thought it might feed it. But it didn't feed it. People were moving their lawns with loud motorized snippers and banging doors, and I think the adults became scared. When they left, the baby tried to follow them, and actually did quite a good job-its the longest flight I
ve seen it do. But they went too far and so it veered back to the neighbours yard instead, where it was quiet and safe. I gave it a good feed there (using the routine where I put meat on the fence and back away)

It has no crows close enough to teach it to eat and drink, but all the local crows talk to it, and it practices `crow baby-talking' in the mornings (which is just the most heart-breakingly cute thing in the world).

It seems to be modelling its foraging behavior off a smaller type of bird which is related to crows, and has the same kind of diet. I have the seen the baby crow hanging out with these birds, stripping bark off trees and disturbing patches of flowers, and eating the insects, just like its smaller relative does. So it is finally eating a little on it own, which is a bit encouraging. And its still mostly going to the neighbours tree to sleep, so he can find food scraps there when I'm away.

I really hope this account helps someone else one day if they find themselves in this position. It is so hard and heart wrenching. Making all these decisions about its welfare without knowing if they right or wrong really, really hurts. 

But at this moment he is alive, well fed, and looking good. It is a good moment in time and I will enjoy it.


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## Charis

Bella...you are so descriptve, I can almost see what you write.
I hope you will post another up-date before you leave for your holiday.


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## Bella_F

Dear Charis, Thanks for following my story and for your support; it really helps. Sometimes I am strong about leaving it, and then I'll suddenly find myself balling my eyes out, really hurting and aching for it. 

The worst part is lack of information. I've been trawling the net & even chatting to rehabbers in Australia. But the answers I need are so hard to find. The rehabbers don't have any experience and just tell me to take it to a vet. Some just say let nature take its course. But what I really want to know is should I stay and help this little thing; is it going to starve to death if I leave too early?

The best and most hopeful information I found was this article:

http://www.wildlifemanagementtechnologies.com/sparticle.html

The article discusses experiments related to the age of release of young quail, and their ability to survive. Encouragingly, it tells of the way young birds released at about 5 weeks into the wild had a much better chance of surviving than those released at 16 weeks. When released at 16 weeks, the birds all died.

They believe that 5 weeks is the optimal time for release, because after that they steadily lose their survival instincts and become tame. That's about the age of my little crow . He is 5 or maybe 6 weeks old. If the information applies to crows too, that would be good. I know he has a tough life ahead of him, and most baby birds die. But anyway I care about him and I really hope he'll make it.


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## Charis

Bella...Quail and Crows are very different. Crows stay with mom and dad for several years to learn how to survive and be good parents after they find a mate. Widowed Crows, for example, often return to their mom and dad. They have very strong family ties. If this Crow is adopted by the neighborhood flock, he should be ok. 
As we talked before, this is a tough call mostly because this bird is very wild and I don't know if you could catch him.
As for nature taking it's course...I think your friends are just silly because human kind messes with nature, in one form or another, every minute of every single day. For some, it's no more than an patronizing excuse when they don't want to get involved don't know how to help or just don't want to hear about it.


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## Bella_F

Hi Charis,

I agree with you, about us being part of nature too. Why is helping called `interference' and yet tearing apart their environment and culling animals perfectly ok in people's minds? 

Regarding the quail, I suppose that makes sense, about the differences between quail & crows. Although I did read something else hopeful, about researchers letting 5 week old peregrine falcons go into the wild after hand raising them (but still leaving a daily meal for them until they were weaned)

Its going to be a hard week for him, I suppose there's no point in trying to deny it. Leaving him might be the wrong thing to do, or foraging on his own might be what he needs to be a strong survivor;I can't resolve any of it in my head or my heart though. I'm going to miss him a lot and worry like crazy. I love that little bird.

The positives are that his flying is a lot stronger, and he's spending the afternoons interacting with other crows. They were calling to him yesterday afternoon, and he was responding and flying up closer to them. Then the whole group landed in his tree, and they were all attacked by noisy minors and butcherbirds. The little one flew back to the park, and the others flew away. But it was still good to see them all coming together. 

He is drinking water on his own, and foraging in the neighbour's yard, whilst learning to eat bugs from tree leaves and bark. I do feel some hope.

So I have two more days of regular feeding, today and tomorrow. I hope this account has not been agonising to read. Thanks for letting me get it out, I really needed the support. When i have more news, I'll write more.


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## Bella_F

UPDATE:

We returned from our holiday late last night, so its been 8 days since I saw the little crow. I jumped up out of bed early this morning to see if he had made it, expecting the worst, but hoping...

It really freaks me out, but when I went across to the park- to `his' tree- the little baby crow was still there, crying just like he was doing before I left!. 

I threw him some food, and the other adult crows (from my back yard) landed in his tree with 2-3 new fledglings. I threw them all some food and the orphan flew down with the parents to eat some.

The parents still won't feed him, although he begs constantly. But they are feeding their newer fledglings. They look a little bit bigger than the orphan and they are strong fliers. Sigh, I suppose there must be something wrong with him- like an unseen disease or maybe he was just smaller and weaker than his siblings, so the parents kicked him out?. Its amazing the sixth sense that wild birds have about these things. 

But its good to see him alive and well. What a survivor; I hope that he'll be ok.


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## Charis

Bella...I doubt he is their baby. I'm glad he is alive. Maybe it's time to catch him and take him to a vet. Could be something as simple worms or canker. Either will keep babies from thriving.
Welcome back.


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## Bella_F

Hi Charis!

Thanks again for your support and for some suggestions. I do have a good broad spectrum wormer that I used successfully to treat a family of magpies with gape worm this spring. I think worming it could be a good idea...thanks for suggesting it!

As for taking it to a vet, I'm not sure it would be good for it...not the care, but the taming of it. In Australia, over 80% of wild animals brought into care are put down for tameness, and some `undesirable' species are killed outright, such as eastern grey Kangaroos. I'm not sure where crows stand, but I'd want to know in advance.

He's looking well-he's just young. But I'll worm him and keep an eye on his health. I noticed he's foraging on the ground now- he wasn't doing that when I left.


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## Bella_F

...Charis, I think you're probably right about the baby not belonging to the local adults and their family. Just now, I was feeding the orphan and I noticed something strange in a leafy tree directly across the road from our house. It's in the park not far from the crow's favorite tree.

What I saw was an icecream bucket that has been converted into a makeshift nest- the kind of thing that the wild-life rehabbers suggest making for fallen fledglings. It was really nicely done, maybe even professionally so- with holes poked into the bottom of it so the fledgling wouldn't drown in the case of rain, and a nice layer of leaves and paper lining. It was zip tied and strapped well to the tree, about 2 1/2 meters up...my partner climbed up and checked it out inside.

There aren't many parks in this area, so I suppose it would be possible that someone found the fledgling crow, built it a make-shift nest, and put it in the tree across from my house. That would explain why it winded up in my yard for a few days, before going back to the park...and why the other crows don't feed it.

I hate thinking what this little thing has been through. At least the other crow family are spending a lot of time with it. Whenever I feed it now, they all fly down and forage with it. Its costing me a lot in food, but I love seeing them altogether.


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## Charis

Bella...that sure explains a lot. Poor little fellow. He really needs to be able to learn from his own kind. Some well intentioned person just didn't understand.


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## TAWhatley

Bless you, Bella, for all you have done and are doing for this young crow! What a difficult time this little one has had. Without you, s/he surely would have perished. Please do keep us posted on how things are going. I think you have very good instincts about things and should continue to follow them.

Terry


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## Bella_F

Thankyou so much Charis and Terry,

I think this little one is blessed in some ways. Its not just me who has taken an interest in it, but the original rescuer, my neighbour, and me too. He is adorable, hungry, beautiful & shy, and he attracts people. 

I finally caught up with my neighbour and thanked him for caring for it while I was away. He said its been eating lots of good protein, probably more than him He even told me that another crow has been visiting it and they were breaking off sticks from branches together one afternoon. 

I don't mean to make people bad reading this story. Its agonising for me, and its not how I want other people to feel. I just hope it will help someone else one day. I know little creatures have so little chance to survive their first year. I'll love & care for him for as long as I can, whilst respecting his need to be a crow; thats all you can do for them, I know. I've always thought animals know when they are loved, and that it counts.


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## philodice

Oh we don't feel bad at all, this is a great story. Many of the people on this forum have helped or even rehabilitated the less 'important' species. A bird doesn't have to be endangered for it to deserve a caring soul to look after it. The joy I feel watching a once weak, sickly, and skinny pigeon launch itself powerfully into the sky and fly away will be yours, I am sure. Crows just take much longer to grow up. Comparitively, pigeons are easy to rescue. 

I really am thankful to you for all your hard work for this bird!


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## Charis

I think you are doing a great job, Bella. This poor little orphan would have been doomed had it not been for you are your kind neighbor.
Probably he was put in a tree far from his family. I feel sorry for mom and dad too because Crow parents really love their babies.
I've told this story here before but it's been a while and so I'll share it with you.
Some years back, when I was still married, my husband was driving through a treed neighborhood that is home to many crows. He was in his little convertible and a young Crow fell in his lap. It was quite a shock and he pulled over to have a look. 
The Crow, just about the right age to leave the nest, had a badly broken leg. The mom and dad were going crazy screaming and dive bombing Dan's head. He brought the bird home and we were lucky that the avian vet was still in her clinic and could treat the baby.
As he walked to the house from the car, mom and dad continued their assault on his head. The same when he left to take the baby to the vet. They flew after him for a long time and finally came back to the house to wait. When he returned, they were waiting for him...dive bombing all the way to the door. Sadly, the baby didn't make it but mom and dad Crow continued their attack on Dan for a week. They never attacked me or Caleb...just Dan. It was an amazing experience.


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## Larry_Cologne

Bella, I love this thread, even though the theme is somewhat desperate and sad. Great work.

Keep us posted, please.

I once had a link to a web-site devoted to crows, but can't seem to locate it yet.

Larry


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## 12788

Hi Bella_F,

It is a great job your are doing! Thank you very much for taking care of this poor little soul. Last year I did care for an orphaned and malnourished crow baby, and found an interesting website about corvids. You might want to have a look there for further info.

http://www.corvidaid.org/


Stephan


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## anddan

What a wonderful story! As long as you help feed him now and then, I think he'll be fine.


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## Larry_Cologne

Hello Bella,

Here are some links to (scientific) literature on crows:

Also written by Australians. You have some experts nearby.

Torresian crow, _Corvus orru_

http://www.corvids.de

http://www.corvids.de/Datenbank/search.php

http://corvids.org/
(site under development)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae

Larry


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## amyable

Hi Bella,

I started to read this thread a while ago and have to admit, I stopped as I was getting upset at the thought of you having to leave this little chap.
I knew exactly what you were going through as a couple of years ago I had a similar experience with a young crow. Unfortunately mine didn't have a happy ending and I could still feel the sadness of losing that one.
I dared to come back to look again tonight and am so pleased to hear how well he is doing.
I found a youngster in the massive park where I walk my dogs. There are lots of crows and I have various families that come down to meet me every day in the same places. I have one that will walk along by my feet until I drop him a bit of food.
This young one was alone and calling out at every crow that flew past, but none of them came to feed him.
I kept watch from a distance for a couple of days but no birds came to him.
I started to bring in some food and drop it near him and he would come to feed. I was so worried as he never left the ground and there were so many people and dogs passing daily, I was scared for his safety. Occasionally he would flutter up to a low branch, but each day he was always back on the ground in the same place.

I carried on feeding him for about a week, he still didn't fly, but I was told that fledglings always left the nest before they could fly but were protected by their parents as they learnt.
I never saw any parents near him but always kept my distance just in case.
Unfortunately one morning I found him lying dead on the path. No sign of injury at all so I never knew what happened.
I buried him under the tree he sat by and still think of him when i pass by.

You have been wonderful looking out for this little guy, and I'm sure he will make it thanks to you.

They are amazing birds, I love them,

Janet


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## Bella_F

Hey everyone,

Thanks heaps for your support and for all the links, I've been reading them all over the past 2 days. I learned so much, such as it will probably take 2 months to wean him. And I found some other good foods to feed it, such as soaked dry cat food and eggs. 

The hardest part right now is that the food is attracting other birds and some dogs which are scaring the crow. So I'm having to create distinct `feeding areas' for the bigger birds, so they stay away. And I'm telling dog owners about the bird and asking them to be careful about their dogs picking up food from the ground with worm gel in it. That seems to have kept most of the regular dog walkers away.

Dear Janet,
That is a sad story, I'm sorry it turned out that way.I can see why reading this thread would not have been nice for you.

I've lost baby birds that i loved too, the first year seems to be full of dangers for them when they are wild. It makes you want take them home and keep them safe forever, but then you'd wonder if they could have made it on their own, had a family, and spent their life free and soaring through the skies....its always such a tough call, deciding what to do.


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## Bella_F

This is just an update, mostly for my own benefit I guess. It really helps to write about this experience; it eases my stress a lot, and it really is stressful sometimes.

The little guy has made it 5 weeks now, and he's still mostly dependent on me for food, or at least seems to be. I see him every day, so its hard to judge his progress. My neighbour says he's looking `beefier'. His flying is competent, but he still lacks confidence with hopping between branches, and he won't go to the ground, not when I'm around anyway. He flies around every day, but its generally limited to flying between his favourite trees, trying to follow other crows nearby, or flying away when he's chased by another bird. I wish there was more progress, but it'll take as long as it takes I guess. I wish there was more, but considering what he's been through I can't expect him to be like the other crows.

Feeding him is a real chore, but I've learned a lot from doing it and I'd like to share what I've learned. 

After 5 weeks, he definitely knows who I am, but he's shy and cautious (like a crow, really) and won't eat if I am in his direct line of vision, or close by. Which is good, he's not impressing, but it also makes feeding more challenging.

Since he won't fly to the ground, I can only get him to eat by putting his food on a low branch in his tree (whichever one he is in when i find him). The trouble is that I cant actually reach any of those low branches, so I used to try to throw the meat up there, until I'd eventually get some up (drawing on old netball skills, lol). But it was really difficult, and took ages. Then I finally worked out that I could impale his meat on the end of a very long stick, then reach up and put the meat up in the tree, with the stick. He likes this, and I've gotten him eating more this way.

The other major problem is that other, more dominant birds wisen up to whats to going on fairly quickly. Some will swoop down and take the food before the crow musters up the confidence to go for it. And a couple of times he's been chased away by other birds, including crows, who wish to claim the tree for themselves, because of the food in it. Its all so political!! So I've had to start a new, more expensive feeding routine where i feed the dominant birds first, in another area. When they are full and have flown away, I can go to the little crow and feed him without him being harrassed or having his food stolen. I wish there was a better way, but it seems to be the only way to stop him from being chased out of the area.

As far as quantity of food goes, I can usually get him to eat 2-3 large pieces of minced beef in one sitting, mixed with an insectivore powdered mixture from the vet (for his vitamins). He'll eat this amount 2-3 times daily, but on bad days he'll get less. Oddly, he will rarely eat after 4 pm, since he seems to more interested in foraging for insects; maybe there are tons around towards the evening or something.

So I'm still hanging in there, and so is he...


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## Bella_F

For anyone still following or interested, week 6 has been very good. This would put him at somewhere between 8 weeks and 10 weeks old.

Its as if he had a surge of confidence this week, or maybe a lot of things just came together for him. 

The main improvement I saw was his flying; he started the week full of confidence, and it was quite sudden. He is now flying without having to think about his take offs and landings, he flies high, and is confident in much taller tree tops. The local crow rehabber told me this would happen around about now, but it sure is good to finally see that she was right.

The second real leap forward is his self-feeding. I'm still checking on him every 2-3 hours from dawn to sunset, just to keep tabs on him and to monitor his need for food. He won't take food at all from me after midday, preferring, instead, to forage for insects high up in a tree with other crows.

The final change that seems positive to me is he has made a part-time companion of another crow baby his age, and the parents seem ok about them being together in the afternoons. I've actually seen them play! I think it probably still breaks his heart when the parents feed his companion and his own begging goes unanswered, but he seems content just to have some company. No doubt he is learning a lot from this interaction, such as about language, warnings, and natural food sources.

I'd say he still needs a lot more work in terms of weaning him, and also in terms of crow socialization/assertiveness in context of other birds. But this week saw a lot of improvements and its as if he reached a milestone.


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## Larry_Cologne

This is wonderful news. He sounds like a survivor.

Larry


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## 12788

Well done Bella_F! This is really good news!

Stephan.


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## amyable

I was really pleased to see this latest update. It is certainly a major leap in his development and must be very heartening to watch.

I'm also watching a youngster at the moment who hasn't yet reached the flying stage although can flutter up to a safe height. I'll feel a lot better when he can fly properly.

Janet


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## Bella_F

Hi Larry and Stephan (EDit, sorry Amy-thanks to you too, I only just saw your post)

Thanks for your encouragement. I'll update this thread from time to time and let everyone know how he does. Its been another good day for him, which is a great relief to me.


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## 12788

Hi Bella_F,

I have just read some articles about the terrible consequences of the most recent heat wave and fires Australia and its inhabitants had to endure (people and animals), having lead to a loss of many lives of Australian people and animals, as well as to the possibility of some Australian animal species now being extinct. Sorry, I know, it's a bit off topic, but did this heat wave affect you and your bird as well (sorry, I don't know where you actually live in Australia)? If so, how did your local birds cope with those high temperatures and drought? 

Stephan


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## Bella_F

Dear Stephan,

Thanks for asking, I appreciate that!. We're ok here; the fires are a long way south of us, and in another state. To the north of us there is flooding, so we are very fortunate to be somewhere in the middle. Its a very lush, sub tropical climate where we live, and its been a good season for birds and their families.

The Australian bushfires are unbelievably sad, aren't they? Its shocking for me to think of the enormous loss of wild-life, which they are saying is in the millions. The area affected- around 440,000 hectares- was a top spot for bird watching, and several endangered bird species formerly thrived there. 

Another sad aspect to the fires is that 2 key wildlife rehabilitation centers (edit: with over 800 sick or injured birds and animals housed in each, I found out today)as well as a wildlife sanctuary were all destroyed, including the inhabitants of all the rehab centers (the sanctuary birds & animals were saved, luckily, by evacuating them and taking them to a zoo). We also lost 3 notable wild-life conservationists and their families to the fires. It was a terrible loss all round...in terms of human life, as well as habitat & critters.

I think the only uplifting news are the tales of survival, like Sam the famous Koala (the one in the news), and stories of live joey's being rescued from the pouches of their burnt dead mothers. Another nice story I heard was from a birder in the area, who discovered many small species of birds surviving the fires by going deep underground, via rabbit holes and crevices.

It all makes me feel very fortunate. If I lost all the birds in my area to fire I think my heart would break.


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## Bella_F

amyable said:


> I was really pleased to see this latest update. It is certainly a major leap in his development and must be very heartening to watch.
> 
> I'm also watching a youngster at the moment who hasn't yet reached the flying stage although can flutter up to a safe height. I'll feel a lot better when he can fly properly.
> 
> Janet


Hi Janet,

Sorry that i totally missed your post! What kind of bird is it, and is orphaned do you think?


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## 12788

Dear Bella_F,

Thank you very much for giving us a bit more insight about what's going on at your place. I'm very sorry about all those known and unknown tragedies. It is particularly sad as some of those fires have been ignited by arsonists. The other thing is, that it is really difficult to imagine the scale of the fire and flood catastrophe. But it is good to know at least, that you are fortunate enough to be safe.

Stephan


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## 12788

Hi Bella_F,

I'm not sure whether I have missed a post, but I'm going to ask anyway. How is your orphan crow doing? 

Many thanks,

rook.


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## Bella_F

Hi Rook,

Thanks for asking, and sorry for missing your post! I only just noticed it now.

He's doing ok, but its a slow process to help an orphaned baby crow, as I'm sure you know. He's developing well considering his disadvantages, and seems to be in sync with other baby crows in the area. He will take food from me no more than twice a day now (at 4 1/2 months of age) instead of 5 times. I've switched his diet to diced lamb hearts and less meat mixture, which he appears to appreciate.

He has plenty of crow companionship, which raises my spirits. He seems to have integrated well into crow society, as a semi-adoptee of one family, and regular member of the local flock. In all, he's usually around 20 plus crows (which makes feeding him expensive and difficult, but I'm just grateful that he has them around)

He is handicapped by his poor feathers but his late body feather moult seems to have at least waterproofed him enough to fly in the rain. I'm told that molting new primaries and tail feathers takes a long time, maybe another 8 months. So I guess all I can do now is keep getting food to him, and try to focus on one day at a time. I think he stands a great chance if I don't burn out, so I'm trying to take it easy and keep positive. 

In June I can do a short course that will legally allow me to rehabilitate native birds, so if necessary I am considering catching him for a feather implantation if his next major molt doesn't work out. That will be later in the year, and hopefully it won't come to that. But I'm exploring the idea, as it looks hopeful.

Anyway I hope you're doing well and that you're enjoying the spring weather. Soon you'll have fledglings everywhere...that will be fun! 

Thanks again for your support.


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## 12788

Bella_F said:


> Hi Rook,
> 
> Thanks for asking, and sorry for missing your post! I only just noticed it now.
> 
> He's doing ok, but its a slow process to help an orphaned baby crow, as I'm sure you know. He's developing well considering his disadvantages, and seems to be in sync with other baby crows in the area. He will take food from me no more than twice a day now (at 4 1/2 months of age) instead of 5 times. I've switched his diet to diced lamb hearts and less meat mixture, which he appears to appreciate.
> 
> He has plenty of crow companionship, which raises my spirits. He seems to have integrated well into crow society, as a semi-adoptee of one family, and regular member of the local flock. In all, he's usually around 20 plus crows (which makes feeding him expensive and difficult, but I'm just grateful that he has them around)
> 
> He is handicapped by his poor feathers but his late body feather moult seems to have at least waterproofed him enough to fly in the rain. I'm told that molting new primaries and tail feathers takes a long time, maybe another 8 months. So I guess all I can do now is keep getting food to him, and try to focus on one day at a time. I think he stands a great chance if I don't burn out, so I'm trying to take it easy and keep positive.
> 
> In June I can do a short course that will legally allow me to rehabilitate native birds, so if necessary I am considering catching him for a feather implantation if his next major molt doesn't work out. That will be later in the year, and hopefully it won't come to that. But I'm exploring the idea, as it looks hopeful.
> 
> Anyway I hope you're doing well and that you're enjoying the spring weather. Soon you'll have fledglings everywhere...that will be fun!
> 
> Thanks again for your support.



Hi Bella_F,

Thank you very much for this update. I'm glad to hear that things are slightly better. It can take quite a while, as we both know. Keep positive - you are doing a great job! At present I'm pretty busy with our (hospital) Mallard families, which breed year for year in the most impractical places without access to water and food. We have raised and re-homed already 3 families with altogether 24 ducklings. I have had one orphan at home, who I have already released (born at Christmas!!!) and are at present caring for another two families with altogether 16 ducklings. Let me know when you have got some strained leg problems with your ducks again, I know some good remedies, as this happens every year quite often in particular to unexperienced youngsters. Good luck with your rehab course!

Stephan.


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## Bella_F

Hi Stephan,

That is fantastic news, congratulations! Those Mallards sound like a handful, but worth every moment of your time, I'll bet I totally love ducks, as you might have gathered, and those babies just melt my heart, hopeless little waddling tykes they are 

My rehab course starts on May 9, I'm pretty excited. The qualification will take care of a few problems for me, such as being legally permitted to trap little Whaah (thats the name of my orphan crow), and to provide temporary housing for him when he's imped or regrowing his feathers.

I wish I'd caught him when he was younger. I was such a noob, and I didn't know who to listen to. I wanted to put my trust in the local `crow expert' , she seemed to really know this species and her position is very high up in our major wild-life rescue group. 

I've since learned that most rescued crows have very poor feathers, its rare to find one that doesn't. So regardless of other issues, just about all rescued crow babies need to be rehabilitated so they can grow new feathers. God i wish I'd known that at the start! 

The local `expert' also gave me poor nutrition advice, such as the number of feeding times required per day (she told me only one was required!) and the type of additives to use. Luckily, I've been mirroring how the local crow parents have been behaving, and going along with what Little Whaah was craving. It seems to have at least kept him alive.

Over the winter I'm going to try to trap him using a hand-made `curtain' trap, like they use for hummingbirds. I have no idea if it will work but I've got to try something.

I hope that Spring doesn't bring too many causalities your way this year, but if so they'll be in good hands Thanks again for all your support, and i look forward to chatting to you again soon!


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## Bella_F

Update on Orphan crow...

For anyone who has followed this thread (which started at Christmas), I just wanted to report that the orphan crow made it through its first winter, and is now flying beautifully & happily integrated into the local flock of crows. He has been independent since June, although I left food about during the winter in case he needed it.

Overall, I think the warm, tropical climate here helped it a lot. The winters here are warm, dry, and very lush. Also, Australian Torresian crows are large birds, and rarely sought out as prey by hawks or other native species. In fact there are no native predators of Australian crows.

If anyone is interested, I think the main effect of me having to be away for 9 days just after I met him, at 3 weeks of age, was a delayed first molt. Even at such a young age, he was able to eat enough to survive, copying other birds and eating what they ate. But he wasn't getting enough food to grow feathers. 

Other baby crows his age had their first early-juvenile molt at around 4-6 weeks of age. He did not molt until he was around 6 months of age, which severely limited his flying and weather-proofing for a while. 

I am a bit exhausted after dedicating all these months to keeping him fed, and dealing with various issues surrounding that such as pissed off neighbours, and other crows taking his food. Still, I am over the moon seeing him wild and free, and alive! He looks beautiful, glossy, and well!


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## mr squeaks

What a TERRIFIC UPDATE, Bella!!

Thank you SO much for letting us know how well he is doing!!

Just super wonderful news!!

Love, Hugs and Scritches
Shi


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## Larry_Cologne

A great success story, Bella! Wonderful news. Thanks so much for all of the efforts you put in for this crow.

Larry 
(in Cologne, but soon to be moving to Antwerp, Belgium).


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## Bella_F

Thank you Shi and Larry  

Love and hugs back to both of you X


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## 12788

Bella_F said:


> Update on Orphan crow...
> 
> For anyone who has followed this thread (which started at Christmas), I just wanted to report that the orphan crow made it through its first winter, and is now flying beautifully & happily integrated into the local flock of crows. He has been independent since June, although I left food about during the winter in case he needed it.
> 
> Overall, I think the warm, tropical climate here helped it a lot. The winters here are warm, dry, and very lush. Also, Australian Torresian crows are large birds, and rarely sought out as prey by hawks or other native species. In fact there are no native predators of Australian crows.
> 
> If anyone is interested, I think the main effect of me having to be away for 9 days just after I met him, at 3 weeks of age, was a delayed first molt. Even at such a young age, he was able to eat enough to survive, copying other birds and eating what they ate. But he wasn't getting enough food to grow feathers.
> 
> Other baby crows his age had their first early-juvenile molt at around 4-6 weeks of age. He did not molt until he was around 6 months of age, which severely limited his flying and weather-proofing for a while.
> 
> I am a bit exhausted after dedicating all these months to keeping him fed, and dealing with various issues surrounding that such as pissed off neighbours, and other crows taking his food. Still, I am over the moon seeing him wild and free, and alive! He looks beautiful, glossy, and well!



Hi Bella_F,

Many thanks for this update!!! Congratulations!!! You have done a brilliant job!!!


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## Bella_F

Hi everyone,

I picked up a severely weakened juvenile crow with pox yesterday;. I dunno, maybe this wasn't such a success afterall, if its him  I'm trying not to let my imagination run away with me, but there's a chance its him and worry that I failed him


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## Jaye

Well...you could look at it that way...OR...you could look at it like:

if it IS him (which I dunno...you'd know better than anyone) then once again, he is very fortunate to be under your care again....and we are all sending you the best wishes and vibes that you can help the guy out....

If it isn't...then, well....ditto above.

Keep us posted.


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## Bella_F

Dear Jaye,

Thanks a lot for your encouragment. Sadly, he didn't make it and I still don't know for sure if its `my' orphan or not. Its sad either way, but kind of demoralisng to think that it could be him 

I've had about 7 baby crows and 10 adult crows `living' in my yard since June, and I've lost track of who is who. Around 4 of the babies looked and acted similarly to my little guy, and the one sure way I identified him was via his voice, which was unmistakable. But he was pecked by the adult crows for crying back in June, and stopped doing it all together since then, so I haven't been 100% sure who is who.

This little one had pox, maybe other problems like internal parasites too, but his overwhelming problem was he was so very skinny. I suppose any of the baby crows could have got that skinny from pox and worms, but I worry that my little orphan wasn't able to feed himself or work out what to eat when I stopped feeding him regularly. It really is so awful and disheartening to think of it, I just have to stop thinking about it I guess. I'll try to learn from it and see it as a positive, that at least he had 9 months of life tat he would not have had if I hadn't have met him as a baby.


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## Bella_F

*Update*

Good news! It turns out my Orphan Crow did make it after all....he'd be about 11 months old now  It feels so good to see him independent and part of a big group after being abandoned, distressed, and so helpless in the beginning.

The poor little one with pox that died in my care was a 2-3 year old, which is something I didn't notice until I looked through some photos I took of him before it died. The 2 year olds have white eyes, with remnants of hazel around the pupil, whereas the babies and yearlings have dark brown eyes...

The Orphan's feathers are still tatty, but he flies very well now, and he forages on the ground and gets up to mischief with his other baby friends. It looks like all the babies from the local area have banded together- there are around 19 of them now (including some un-mated adults).

I've never been close to crows before so this year has been an amazing experience. I have grown to love their company and sounds, and I never grow tired of watching their behavior. I think I'd actually feel quite lonely, now, without the sounds of crows around me...it shows how much these intelligent, sensitive creatures get under your skin


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## 12788

I'm very glad to hear that things turned out to be alright for your orphan crow, although it is obviously very sad as well that the other youngster hasn't made it. x Stephan.


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## spirit wings

"I've never been close to crows before so this year has been an amazing experience. I have grown to love their company and sounds, and I never grow tired of watching their behavior. I think I'd actually feel quite lonely, now, without the sounds of crows around me...it shows how much these intelligent, sensitive creatures get under your skin"


I know what Bella meant when she posted this. here is "my" bunch I feed.


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## altgirl35

Bella_F said:


> Good news! It turns out my Orphan Crow did make it after all....he'd be about 11 months old now  It feels so good to see him independent and part of a big group after being abandoned, distressed, and so helpless in the beginning.
> 
> The poor little one with pox that died in my care was a 2-3 year old, which is something I didn't notice until I looked through some photos I took of him before it died. The 2 year olds have white eyes, with remnants of hazel around the pupil, whereas the babies and yearlings have dark brown eyes...
> 
> The Orphan's feathers are still tatty, but he flies very well now, and he forages on the ground and gets up to mischief with his other baby friends. It looks like all the babies from the local area have banded together- there are around 19 of them now (including some un-mated adults).
> 
> I've never been close to crows before so this year has been an amazing experience. I have grown to love their company and sounds, and I never grow tired of watching their behavior. I think I'd actually feel quite lonely, now, without the sounds of crows around me...it shows how much these intelligent, sensitive creatures get under your skin


bella, the crows here have blue eyes as babies and they get darker as they get older


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## Bella_F

Hi everyone,

I haven't checked this thread in a while, so thank you to those of you who wrote!

Altgirl, Little Whaah is an Australian Toressian Crow. As Adults, their eyes are a stunning irredescent white. They start out blue for only a few months after they leave the nest, then they go dark brown for the rest of their first year. Towards the end of their 2nd year, they go hazel and become progressively lighter. I love the way their eyes look!

Little Whaah has finally become mostly unidentifyable to me now. Up until Xmas, I could still spot her (I think its a `her' because she is quiet and shy) by her one tail feather. But her newly moulted tail feathers have grown almost to full lebgth and she looks very much like the other moulting crows now. She sticks close by to the dominant male crow who took her under his wing as a baby.....that brings a lot of warmth to my heart. Maybe they'll become mates, who knows.? 

I always see a lot of wild bird die around here- from cars, disease, starvation, and injury. It was so nice to be able to help one for a change. And totally worth it.


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