# hatching into -5C temperatures



## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

My mating pair of feral pigeons have just hatched a couple of squabs and the temperature in the makeshift 'coop' on my apartment balcony is projected to fall to around -5C tonight . I keep reading about people bringing them indoors ( I dont want to do that as I suspect that there will be an abandonment ) and being advised to maintain a temp of around 28C for artificial incubation . I am very very cautious of exposing these day-old squabs to any sort of temperature variation or other thermal stress . All appears well with the hatching and the female is doing her utmost to keep the squabs covered , and is doing a lot of 'shivering' and shifting . I can feed a warm air stream into the coop , and have done so without any obvious sign of stress or distraction by the female , and I can keep it going through the night ( beggar the expense !) . Is this wise do you think , or should I just let nature take its course ? Any specific experience with these temperatures would be welcome .


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

peter ion said:


> My mating pair of feral pigeons have just hatched a couple of squabs and the temperature in the makeshift 'coop' on my apartment balcony is projected to fall to around -5C tonight . I keep reading about people bringing them indoors ( I dont want to do that as I suspect that there will be an abandonment ) and being advised to maintain a temp of around 28C for artificial incubation . I am very very cautious of exposing these day-old squabs to any sort of temperature variation or other thermal stress . All appears well with the hatching and the female is doing her utmost to keep the squabs covered , and is doing a lot of 'shivering' and shifting . I can feed a warm air stream into the coop , and have done so without any obvious sign of stress or distraction by the female , and I can keep it going through the night ( beggar the expense !) . Is this wise do you think , or should I just let nature take its course ? Any specific experience with these temperatures would be welcome .


Well you're right........if you moved the babies, guess who Mom would be??  Since they have hatched, I would think that the parents will keep the babies covered like they are supposed to. Do you feed these birds? If you do, keep food easily in reach of whatever parent is sitting on the nest so that they don't have to leave the nest to get food. If you don't, I would if I was you. In those kind of temps, uncovered babies wouldn't last more than a few minutes. Just keep an eye on them. I think they should be ok.


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## becege (Mar 12, 2003)

*Hatching in -5c Temp.*

After about 8 days from hatching the parents won't sit on the babies. That is how they are programmed. Once this happens the babies die. I've lost babies even when the temperature has been in the 40's. You'll have to watch them carefully and when this happens bring them in and hand feed them. This is easy enough to do. Use Exact which you can get at any pet store and feed them with a syringe.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

It's very kind of you Peter to keep a watchful eye on your little feathered neighbors.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Peter Ion,



Individual Pigeons will make individual deisions as parents.


Some continue to sit on or sit partially on endothermic youngsters, or sit on them partially for another week or two or three even, others do not.


If the Nesting Material is soft and insulating, 'deep', the Babys once ten days old or so, might manage alright even if the parents are not sitting on them.


Possibly you could provide additional Nesting Materials for the parents to find and add...though at this stage, they may ignore them...


Just keep an eye on how things are going.


Babys, once endothermic, are often little 'Furnaces' and produce their own heat very well...I've seen ten day olds managing fine in low thirties temps ( ie: roughly freezing, in Farenheit ), where the parents were not continuing to sit on them...though of course it is exeptionally cold where you are.


Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## peter ion (Dec 19, 2008)

*-5C temperatures*

Hi Phil in Vegas ( I hear you are having it unusually cold right now also ) . I am in Vancouver . Thanks for the comment on 10-day-olds surviving low 30s F temperatures . I like the 'mini-furnaces' description ! I laid out some oats in an upturned jamjar lid next to the nest and when I came back the two squabs were INSIDE the lid under the parent - should at least reduce a little conductive heat loss to ground . Otherwise , I am leaving it in nature's hands . I also rigged up a mini security camera in the coop to get a realtime feed on my TV !!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Peter, are you in Vancouver BC or Vancouver Washington?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

peter ion said:


> Hi Phil in Vegas ( I hear you are having it unusually cold right now also ) . I am in Vancouver . Thanks for the comment on 10-day-olds surviving low 30s F temperatures . I like the 'mini-furnaces' description ! I laid out some oats in an upturned jamjar lid next to the nest and when I came back the two squabs were INSIDE the lid under the parent - should at least reduce a little conductive heat loss to ground . Otherwise , I am leaving it in nature's hands . I also rigged up a mini security camera in the coop to get a realtime feed on my TV !!



Hi Peter, 



Little chilly here, far as here goes...high 20s, low 30s...even had a little Snow a few days ago.


If the 'peepers' you have there end up not managing with mom and dad not sitting or something...they can look dead when hypothermic, pale, stiff, etc...but still be alive...if this happens, warm them slowly.


In your hands, breathing slow "Haaaaaaaa"s on them, after half an hour of that, graduate to a Heating Pad or other...bring that up slow, them covered on a towel on it...over another half hour or fourty-five, bring them up to 104-ish Farenheit...checking constantly, and likewise from there.

Latyers of towels on a Heating Pad..four towells, then three, then two, then one...like that...the 'peepers' covered with a Tee shirt or other soft heat-keeping fabric.


Anyway, I've had them brought to me like that, looking like pale rubber 'doll' imitations of Babys...and I was able to bring them back. Not every time, but sometimes...and it has to be slow...fifteen or twenty minutes of hand-nest "Haaaaaa" ing on them with warm breath, in one hand, other hand overing them, try for maximum warmth retention in the 'hand cave' for warm Breath to go into...they should start twitching or wrything a little, then continue with another fifteen minutes worth of "Haaaaaa"s, and on from there.


Below freeing temps of course could do 'em in once they are passed out for vert long, where even a little above freezing, they can be revived sometimes...I don't know how long they can do it and be revive-able, but they sort of shut down and go into a suspended animation.


If the parents are getting enough food, they would likely be keeping the Babys stuffed...Water for the Parents can be important also, for them to give to their Babys, and if everything is frozen, maybe set out liquid Water off and on in a Pan or something for them.


Parents are often VERY sensitive about anyone fussing with their Nests, so, prety dicey as for slipping say a Heating Pad under it...any little change, they can get spooked and abandon it and the Babys.



Good luck with this!


Phil
l v


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## peter ion (Dec 19, 2008)

Hi Phil in Vegas
( I am in Vancouver BC , not Washington , in answer to another poster here ). Thanks for your comments - I can see you are a man of dedication . So far , all appears to be OK . The male is gorging on my oat offerings , and repelling all potential invaders . The female does not appear to be eating despite various upturned lids with oats being placed within pecking distance . She does seem intent upon incorporating the lids into her nest though ! I take on board your heating suggestions and the criticality of the slowness of the warming - thermal shock will undoubtedly kill . I'll keep you posted .
Peter


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## peter ion (Dec 19, 2008)

The 2 squabs are 10 days old now and are thriving nicely . the temps went down well below freezing but the parents are doing their job - the 'abandonment on day 8' theory thankfully did not happen . Thanks for all your input . these fellas can be addictive viewing at times .


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm glad the babies are doing well, Peter. Please do keep us posted on how they are doing. Pictures of the little ones would be great if you are able to post some.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

peter ion said:


> The 2 squabs are 10 days old now and are thriving nicely . the temps went down well below freezing but the parents are doing their job - the 'abandonment on day 8' theory thankfully did not happen . Thanks for all your input . these fellas can be addictive viewing at times .





Hi Peter,



Oh good!


Glad to hear...


Yup...there's nothing like 'peepers'..!


Have fun!



Phil
l v


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry, i have to jump in on this thread. With proper loft, proper nests, and nesting material, temp. gives no problem, at least with every breed i have kept. True it might be a problem with some small breeds.
THERE is no "set date" a pair will not set close to the squabs.
In some VERY young late hatch pairs maybe.
I am no longer in a hurry to breed early, since i do not fly homers any longer, BUT when i did, my first round was hatched by 1st week in Jan., in NORTHERN ILL. I had no young lost to cold.
I was not even pushing them to breed, and i have a squab going on two weeks old, and the parents still brood it when necessary.
I am not sure where this "8" day thing came from, it must be someones new idea. In about 40 years of keeping pigeons in this area, cold was never a problem, or enemy, HEAT was.
If i wanted to breed early this year i would have squabs in most nests by this time. If it really worries you, extending the lighting, not only encourages the breeding but allows longer daylight for the pair to feed the young.
I did not extend lighting last year and my FIRST round of young were about weaned this time last year (rollers,and tipplers, as well as show budapests)
Who started this "8" day thing anyway? Dave


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## Bishop Place Loft (Feb 14, 2021)

Different pairs of birds will set on youngsters for different lengths of time. Some cover youngsters tightly until they are pretty big and partially feathered. Others will be more focused on laying another round of eggs when the babies are 8 days old or so and leave their babies uncovered for lengthy periods. The second type are the ones who’s babies are more at danger of chilling when winter breeding. In nature, the birds wouldn’t breed until spring so most babies wouldn’t be exposed to very cold weather in any case. If you plan to “safely” breed in January-March, do so in a place where you can at least keep the temperature over 45 degrees, like a garage, etc., otherwise it may all be up to Mother Nature. Good luck.


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