# hawk attack injured baby collared dove help please



## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi there i just registered with this forum as it seems to have the most info on what i need. 
last night i had a phone call to collect a bird, that appeard to have 1 leg and 1 wing. i live in a quiet area with lots of wildlife and have a macaw and a cockatoo so most people think i'm the person to call, although i have helped wildlife in the past i am no expert.
back to the bird, not sure of the age but it does still have a little down, its left eye is injured and i think it will lose sight in this eye or maybethe eye. its left leg looks broken at the top socket as it hangs loosely from the abdomen but not severed just looks badly broken. injured right wing plucked feathers and a few small lesions. its neck has some bald patches where its obviously been plucked, poor thing has no tail feathers. its shoulder has sometypeofinjurytoo but stuck up so hard to tell. i checked for bleeding and although it had been bleedingat some point it wasn't when i got there and hasn't bled since. a witness thinks it had a very narrow escape from a sparrow hawk, and they managed to guard the dove until i got there to prevent further damage. i will get some pictures up asap wasjust wondering if there was anything i could bedoing in the meantime to help this bird. our local vet doesn't deal with wild birds as i found out with past experience. i have splinted broken legs before on other birds but the breaks were never that high up. please let me know if there are any treatments i can give and where ishould get them from, i'm willing to help this bird and don't mind passing it on to someone with more experience. many thanks in advance. i will keep updating.
once again many thanks geebop1978


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## Sandie (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi Geebop, Poor little thing must be frightened to death. I'm pretty new here myself but I know you won't have to wait long for someone to respond, what is your location? 
Here is a good link about emergencies with injured birds.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-9457.html

Sandie.


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Sandie thanks for replying. i am in colerne which is near chippenham uk.
i have contacted someone who is experieced and am just waiting for a reply.
i have kept the poor baby warm and dry all night and left some food and water although not sure if he's had any yet, looks very alert with his good eye and droppings look normal moist but not runny and no evidence of blood. no fresh blood either so not bled since i've had him. i will keep my fingers crossed and wait for help lol. he seems to be coping quitewell considering his injuries and his breathing looks fine too,i just took some pictures of him to add and send and it didnt seem to bother him (don't like saying it).
once again many thank

Geebop1978


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## Sandie (Jun 13, 2008)

Hi, I've just found this site on google, its a sanctuary fairly near to you, I read in one of the newsletters on their site that they take feral and wood pigeons etc, (not all of them do!)
Might be worth giving them a ring? Even if its just for some advice.
And they have a shop in chippenham.
http://www.wildthingsres-q.org.uk/index.php

Sandie.


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

just thought i'd put a quick link on for the photo's they are on my photobucket the link is
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll248/geebop1978/injured baby collared dove attacked by hawk/

once again many thanks
have spoken to a few people, and trying to sort some expert care out asw i want to give him the best chance possible.
geebop1978


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## Sandie (Jun 13, 2008)

What a sweet little thing, I hope she gets better. She's in very good hands by the sound of it! 

Sandie.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

geebop, good morning and thank you so much for taking this dove into your home.

Our general treatment for hawk attack is to give the bird Baytril and also to apply Silver Sulfadene ointment to the wounds.

In your case, you're dealing with some extensive injuries with the broken leg, wing and eye. I am hoping the eye may not be so badly damaged that it will lose it. The leg in particular will need to be stabilized soon.

We have excellent people in the UK who may be able to help you with a good place to take your dove. You need to be very careful that you choose a place which does not euthanize doves or pigeons.

I'm going to PM one of our members, Cyro51 (Cynthia) in hopes she can get with you shortly.

Again, thank you.


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

hi there thank you all for your kind words. i have spoken to few rescue centres and sanctuarys who all seem to think that putting this dove to sleep would be the best option. i just feel its such a shame seeing as though it is so young and seems to be a fighter, i'd like to fight for it too. i have heard of 1 legged 1 winged and 1 eyed birds surviving quite happily in captivity, so i want to try to help this one too and if it means keeping until a grand old age then that's fine by me too, bless it. i always thought sanctuarys were supposed to try everything to help recovery, but as i was told it's not endangered and it's wild so they don't feel much point in trying. i given rehydration fluid and he/she still seemsto be doing quite well, no breathing problems or unusual droppings. no fresh blood from anywhere either. his wounds seems quite clean for now but i dont know how deep these injuries are. vet said he would amputate the leg because of where it's broken if he wasn't a wild bird. i'm looking for some baytril and silver sulfadene now as kindly advised by Maggie. i will try to treat myself to the best of my capabilities if i have the right materials so suggestions of what to get and where are very welcome. i have just set up the infrared baby monitor/camera so i can keep an extra close eye on him without disturbing too much.
i will keep trying for help and await some replies from the numerous calls and emails i left lol
i will also keep updating here too.
once again many thanks
kind regards to all
Geebop1978


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Bless you for caring! The dove is actually an adult, it already has its collar and has an adult beak, but they grow up so quickly that it has probably not been fledged very long. If a bird has managed to escape from a sparrowhawk the we owe it to him to keep him alive. My main concern is the leg. I had two pigeons come to me with one leg just dangling, my vet thought that they would both need amputating. One made a full recovery, the vet said that the other pigeon's leg was dislocated, so I did not try to treat it and it ended up with a twisted leg which he still walks on. I think that if I had corrected it then he would have been able to walk completely normally. Because of this I think that if you can set the leg in its normal position without causing the dove too much stress (if he starts to pant stop immediately) you should do so. I use a bendy straw padded inside with cotton wool.

I am sorry about Wild Things rescue, a few years ago they rehomed some feral pigeons with me and I had them down as a sanctuary that will do its best for all birds, then a few months later they rejected a wood pigeon because there were "more important birds" that they wanted to reserve the space for.

I don't know if you have tried this place in Bedfordshire, the photographic evidence shows that they care for collared doves and wood pigeons. You could have them just look at the leg and advise you on how to treat it. But don't leave it there unless it can offer it a lifetime home...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/samantha.bedford/pigeons.htm

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

To me, the eye actually looks like it wasn't recently lost. If you'd found him with a lot of sticky goo all around the feathers of the eye then I'd tend to think it had happened very recently. I've got a bird, Unie, who has an eye missing and the empty socket appears much as this one does. I have to admit that flash pictures can be deceiving due to the "flattening" that the flash causes. However, some of the pictures are from the perspective of straight on the line of the beak and that side of the face looks like it might be a bit sunken in.

Therefore, it's possible that he's managed for quite awhile as a one-eyed bird and that would be very rare. He'd have to be one heckuva' fighter for life to have managed that. As such, there's just no way that I'd personally let anyone try to put this bird down until it became absolutely clear that there was no quality of life left whatsoever.

The bird needs to be on some kind of antibiotic to protect against a systemic infection that could come from an unseen puncture wound, however small. Clavamox (preferred) or Amoxicillin (in a pinch) would do, but they're not the only ones.

If you can keep him in such a way that he doesn't move the one leg for a couple of weeks, he might stand a chance. Given the eye, he qualifies as an "unreleasable" bird, though, and needs to go to an aviary to be loved to death (many years down the road, hopefully).

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Clavamox (preferred)


Synulox in the UK. If the vet has already examined the dove he should be able to prescribe some without another visit. 

Cynthia


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

hi there again thanks for all your replies. he/she is still doing well.
when i collected him yesterday his eye didn't look too bad, not swollen but slightly sunk in but the eye is still in there, it seems to have deflated more and sunken in more and he/she's trying to close the eye. i am at present trying to make a makeshift splint for his leg as advised by Cynthia (thank you).
would anyone happen to know where i can get these treatments from as the vets i spoke to say they need to see the animal, and if he/she is that bad then they would euthanase. i would like to try everything before giving up on him but i dont want him to suffer in the mean time. i know of a good sanctuary that would take him if he were less injured as they took a crow off us that couldn't fly, he probably never will due to a deformed wing but he lives there happily. only problem is it's up the north of England where i am originally from and i am down south, although i am going that way at the end of the month so could drop off this dove then, if he makes it.
i'll try to get somemore detailed pictures in a while.
kind regards to all
Geebop1978


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

i haven't taken him to a vet as yet as most refuse because he's a wild bird and think he needs to be put to sleep, and i'm afraid if they agreed to see him they would try to euthanase, which is what most people from vets to rescue centres have said up to now over the phone. i aim to try my hardest to save this dove and hopefully if and when he makes a full recovery if he can't be released (looking doubtful at the moment but who knows) then i will try to rehome him with other birds his kind. i know i will get attatched and want my hubby to build a flight for him but i'll always do what is best for him.
thank you so very much 
regards
Gaynor Geebop1978


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Normally, a freshly wounded eye would be streaming with fluid. I'm having a hard time imagining how it couldn't be. Unie had to have her eye "eviscerated" and the actual eyelids remained outward for quite awhile until virtually all of the remaining sclera disintegrated and was fished out with forceps over a long period. Only then did the surrounding periocular tissue finally get that "sunken-in" look. That's the only practical experience that I've had with something like that, though.

It can easily occur that an infection of what remains of that eye can migrate through the relatively short optic nerve (it's more of a Y-shaped stalk on them) and cause the ultimate loss of vision on the other side. That would be another reason for the bird to be on an antibiotic. Most vets are going to take one look at that little guy and immediately advice euthanasia. If you can find a vet who's willing to go the distance, you'd be doing exceptionally well.

Pidgey


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all i managed to source some synulox from a lady who had it for her dog with a leg wound. the tablets are 250mg, so i really need to know how much of this drug to give and how? also if i need to repeat?
many thanks in advance
Gaynor Geebop1978


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That's great. Here's a drug chart by Nooti:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f27/drugs-chart-5176.html

Do you have a way to weigh the bird in grams?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If not, then you'd probably shoot for the middle of the range. Adults range from 140 to 180 grams, so call it 160. In Nooti's thread, she says that the dosage could be up to 125 mg/kg, PO (orally), TID (three times daily). That would mean a top-end dose of 20 milligrams (0.16 kg * 125 mg) per dose, or 1/12.5th of one of those pills. There are various ways of dividing that kind of stuff up but I'm not familiar with the specific pills and how well they crush into powder and dissolve in water. Hopefully, Cynthia will come back and tell you better or maybe I can find a past post of hers that'll help.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Gaynor,

These are the instructions Nooti gave me for using a 250mg tablet:

Cut the 250mg tablet in half, so you are using 125mg. Crush the half tablet and mix with 7 mls sterile or purified water. Give the dove 0.1 mls for every 100 gms bodyweight, twice a day for 7 days. Keep the solution refrigerated and shake it up before using it. 


Cynthia


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

have weighed the bird then cleaned him up a bit, so he's on the mend externally now. he weighs 5.5oz or 155grams so think he only needs 0.1 ml of his medicine.he is eating and drinking on his own which i am thrilled about cause i wasn't sure but the birdy cam caught him lol.
i am waiting for another pair of hands to try the splint i made just needs customising to fit but don't want to do it alone as he was trying to get away from me while i was cleaning him. i have taken some more pictures of him without flash so you can get a better view, really dont think he cansee out of it although the eyeball is still there it doesn't seem to be leaking, it's just really sunk in, hope the pictures can show it better than i can try to explain.
many thanks againto all and i will keep all posted, i would have been lost without the advice, as i have never had to treat a dove with injuries so bad before.
will post again soon
Gaynor Geebop1978


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

These may help you some:










http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Pidgey, am I wrong or does the above calculation of the synulox dosage end up in a very small dose? Mathematics are not my strong point.

If the dose is too low can you recalculate?

Thanks

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay...

Half pill is 125 mg; water at 7 mL; Bird at 155 grams or 0.155 kg; Dose at 125 mg/kg

125 mg dose per kilogram of bird * 0.155 kg bird = 19.375 mg per dose for that particular bird.

125 mg pill portion / 7 mL = 17.86 mg/mL

Required Dose of Medicine Mixture = ~1 full mL

Three times per day is the maximum. Nooti might easily have backed down from the max in this particular case, though. In my latest formulary, it's shown at twice per day.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Pidgey, I assume that Gaynor has already made the solution with 125mg of synulox and 7ml of water, but 1ml is quite a lot of fluid to give orally to a stressed collared dove (if you are not accustomed to putting the syringe down the oesophagus).

Can you re-design the solution so that it has less water, ie so that the amount of fluid in each dose would be less but the amount of synulox would be the same?

I couldn't find synulox or clavamox in the Avian Medicine formulary, but there was an entry for amoxycillin...synulox is 80% amoxycillin.

I found this chart, it gives the synulox dose at 125 mg/kg BID for birds. It looks like a reliable reference source. 

http://www.laboklin.de/en/VetInfo/aktuell/antibiotics_in_smallmed.htm. 

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay...

If you wanted to only give 1/10th mL, then you'd essentially reduce the total water by a factor of 10, so 0.7 mL of water for the half-tablet.

Pidgey


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all just a quick update i managed to splint the leg in a fashion, i have padded it a little too as it is loose in every direction and surrounding tissue under abdomen is badly bruised, but fingers crossed. i gave 0.1ml of the synulox i had a syringe with 0.1 ml measured from some previous meds, its also the smallest i have, i managed to get it down with no problems at all and the bird has kept it down and still seems alert, eating drinking and pooping ok too. i did notice a small hole under the right wing where i imagine its armpit to be. i cleaned all wounds with saline and other than looking sore don't seem to be infected but i dont know how deep they are. his eye still looks deflated and did have a little stickyness to it so i cleaned that too with just plain cool boiled water. i took some more pics earlier but they're not good ones of the eye so will try again tomorrow with natural light. i have been watching him on the camera and he seems to be moving around from his make shift nest to newspaper to poop and over to food and water which i placed near him but he keeps moving around. i noticed he seems to shake his head from side to side like he's saying no a little too, but not constantly.
thank you all for being very helpful, hopefully he/she will have some chance now.
could i ask if i should give him 1ml dose of synulox or carry on with 0.1ml? and is it 2 or 3 times a day? i was a little confused from the previous posts? he really doesn't seem to be in much distress at all and his breathing seems normal too, i am hoping he isn't in any pain or much pain, not sure if there is anything i can do for this? he is a very brave dove and i hope he keeps his strength up.
once again many thanks to all
Gaynor


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I guess I'd remix a half-tablet (125 milligrams) into 0.7 milliliters of water and give two 1/10th milliliter doses per day.

Pidgey


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi Pidgey i have been looking at the link you sent about splints and skeletal bones and names, from what i can make out this dove seems to have broken the trochanter of femur? as the leg just seems to go in every direction with no movement in the leg or foot on this side. i dont know if maybe there could be another way to splint this more efficiently?
thank you very much
Gaynor


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That wouldn't be good, but it could be a lot worse. You might try holding the foot in one hand and the joint of the tarsometatarsus in the other and seeing if there's looseness in between; then doing the same with the joint of the tarsometatarsus to the tibiotarsus in one hand and the joint of the femur to the tibiotarsus in the other and check that section. If each segment there is solid, then you're stuck with it being the femur, of course.

Now, you might well have already done that to come up with the trochanter, I don't know. It's not the easiest break to deal with but it's not the worst, either. A "proximal" (upper portion of the bone) or midshaft femur break is managed by binding the leg to the body. That's probably best managed with aggressive tape and maybe some (read: a lot of) feather clipping. That and cage rest make for a pretty good prognosis. You have to bind the leg so that it's in a natural resting position and you obviously can't tape over the vent (where the poop comes out.) The other leg's a bit of a bother, too. I don't have a picture for you.

Pidgey


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi. You are doing a great job...really...keep it up. I would say you are right...if you took it to a wildcare or vet, they would put her down very quickly. So...you must be the judge and determine whether you feel she can make it thru. Sounds like you are keeping a close eye on her, so that's good.

In regards to your concern about pain...I would guess that the lil' guy is in a fair amount of pain. Painkillers is something folks often forget about when treating....just kinda goes under the radar or becomes an afterthought because one is so focused on treating the major symptoms/condition....

I personally urge you to get some sort of pain meds going for your patient. the best stuff, IMHO...is Medicam (medacam ?)...it's like Vicotin for birds. It's packs a knockout punch as far as pain-relief...really great stuff.....

But it's prescription...so I dunno if you can land any easily.

Folks here also have had good results with Baytril....which is over the counter and available at any ...apothecary...(isn't that what you blokes call the pharmacy ?  )

Cyro51 (Cynthia) or Pidgey can do a computation of the correct dosage for a bird of 155g. You should PM and e-mail them....or Pidgey, if you are still online....maybe you can post the proper dosage ?

I would really say that the bird REALLY, REALLY needs some painkiller....it may be that he/she improves significantly if she gets some pain relief...pain is a major stressor and will definitely interfere with the healing process in so many ways....plus, the lil' one could use some relief....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jaye said:


> I personally urge you to get some sort of pain meds going for your patient. the best stuff, IMHO...is Medicam (medacam ?)...it's like Vicotin for birds. It's packs a knockout punch as far as pain-relief...really great stuff.....
> 
> But it's prescription...so I dunno if you can land any easily.
> 
> Folks here also have had good results with Baytril....which is over the counter and available at any ...apothecary...(isn't that what you blokes call the pharmacy ?  )




Actually, you can't get Baytril anymore in the U.S. .. don't know about other parts of the world. You CAN get the generic Enrofloxacin or the Cipro, but Cipro is a human drug that requires a prescription. Most of the pigeon suppy houses carry some type of enrofloxacin that can be had without a prescription. Truly, it isn't easy to lay your hands on some of the drugs needed to treat our beloved pigeons, and certainly not at the drop of a hat .. you either have them on hand or you don't .. if you don't .. then it's going to take a bit of time to get them.

The pain drug is Metacam .. also a prescription required for this.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Gaynor,

I think we are fairly agreed now that the correct dose would be either 1ml of the 7ml solution twice a day, or 0.1 ml of the 0.7 ml solution that Pidgey recommended (thanks for that Pidgey)

My concern now is whether if you make a fresh solution you will run out of Synulox before I can get some more for you. Did you just have the one tablet? If so finish off the 7ml solution before mixing the new one.

I am sorry that the original solution was wrong. I was given that in 2003 and used it then, when I never questioned dosages, but I haven't used it since as I have been using the 50 mg tablets.

Once again, thank you for looking after the dove, it really needs a friend.

Cynthia


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all,
the dove is still doing really well, quite active and trying to get around. still eating and drinking fine. i have been giving him 0.1ml of the half tablet in 7ml of water, i have a few of these tablets so i should be ok for a while. should i make a new solution with half a tablet (125mg) crushed then mix with 
7ml water as before and administer 1ml full instead of 0.1ml.
i have someone sending me some metacam also but not sure of dosage 0.1ml was advised but not sure how much water, but will ask when i recieve it.
i spoke to someone who had the same situation and the hawks talon had pierced the eyeball through the nose vent, his eye doesn't look any better or worse today.
does anyone know what sex this dove is? i feel a bit daft saying he/she and hate saying it.i'm just curious.
thank you all, your advice and encouragement have been a rock for me.
kind regards 

Gaynor


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, one or the other of the two regimens. The thought behind dissolving the half-tablet in the 0.7 mL of water is that you'd only be giving the bird between one and two actual drops, which would be safer and easier to give to a wild dove than a full milliliter of the other stuff that you've currently got.

Different people have different thoughts on giving Metacam, but my own personal feelings for some breaks is that it's a bad idea because the bird might not feel the pain and therefore move the leg more. That's bad for healing, especially in a spot where you can't effectively splint that well.

Pidgey


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks Pidgey 
i can understand what you are saying it makes sense really if he cant feel pain then he cant feel if that leg gets into trouble either. makes sense with medicine too so i will make him the 0.7 solution up so he doesn't have to swallow as much. do you think i should try something different for his leg? he seems ok with the splint but he was holding it close to his body before the splint so i was wondering if maybe i should just leave him without?
is there anything other than metacam that you suggest? or no pain killer at all?
many thanks 
Gaynor and Dove


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I don't use any pain killer at all for broken bones. There are others who vehemently disagree. 

He just needs to stay pretty much hunkered down for a couple of weeks and you don't want him to even try and fly. When you get them like this, they're often in a state of shock and are pretty easy to manage. As they start feeling better, they usually start remembering that they're a wild bird and need to be getting along. So, it's usually best to keep them in a fairly small cage and in somewhat dim light.

Pidgey


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well...since you gave me the avenue...I am going to vehemently disagree with Pidgey on the painkiller.

From the injuries this little bird has sustained...to believe that it is NOT in a great deal of pain is kinda...unrealistic. 155g is NOT a big bird. As I said before, I have had some tragic, lethal experiences in NOT giving a small bird painkiller while I was treating with the proper other meds.

I respect Pidgey's advice, and have even solicited it in the past on other things. BUT.... I have to very strongly disagree here. You can be giving the right dosages of antibiotics, etc, whatever...but a bird that small, that was attacked THAT severely (and it IS a severe attack)...their pain threshold is limited.....Once the shock wears off....how can you NOT give it some pain relief ? In the very least, it will allow the poor thing to rest a bit peacefully. Medicam will absolutely reduce suffering....it is hard to argue the opposite.

We are all discussing this very methodically and calmly...but please remember: this bird is in pretty critical physical shape and her injuries are several, and acute....this is no time to be casual....this bird might well not make it if not given all of the meds it needs. A debate on whether this med or that med is should be given...will become very academic if this bird perishes.

For serious, multiple injuries to a species which is not particularly robust...you have to err on the side of conservative medication; this has to include antibiotics and painkiller.

IMHO...IN THIS INSTANCE, there is absolutely very little or no downside to dosing with medicam for several days (3 or 4 at least). I think when you weigh the argument against using it....that argument doesn't come close to outweighing the benefits of using it.

Typical Medicam suspension (liquid) is 1.5 mg/ml. So, for a 155g bird, 2 doses daily of about .07 cc should do it. I invite anyone to correct me on that dosage suggestion if you think it's off. Also, there may be there may be other suspensions used in UK, but that is the typical formula used here.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Well...since you gave me the avenue...I am going to vehemently disagree with Pidgey on the painkiller.


The problem is that our bodies (and pigeon's bodies) experience pain to alert us and protect us. If a limb is immobilised then a painkiller would be OK, but if the limb is not immobilised then the absence of pain would lead the bird to use the limb and damage it further.

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You all, this is a tought one regarding the pain issue. Not even bringing the leg into the picture, the poor thing must be in pain from just the eye injury alone. I would think pain medication and keeping the bird in a dark room so it doesn't move around, could be benificial. It's hard for me to rest when everything hurts and I have no reason to believe that birds are any different.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Not even bringing the leg into the picture, the poor thing must be in pain from just the eye injury alone. I would think pain medication and keeping the bird in a dark room so it doesn't move around, could be benificial. It's hard for me to rest when everything hurts and I have no reason to believe that birds are any different.


You are right, of course, Charis. I had forgotten the eye. But Metacam is only available on prescription and we would need a vet that was determined to help the dove live. That more or less describes my own vet, who has provided me with Metacam.

Gaynor, I will try to find a suitable container to send you some Metacam, but it will reach you on Tuesday at the earliest. In the meantime does anybody know whether aspirin can be used? And if so, what dosage?

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Studies have shown that birds just don't begin to have the pain channels (in the brain) that we do because a lot of injuries for which we demonstrate "guarding behavior", they don't. I just don't want that femur to end up in a non-union.

Given the blood thinning nature of aspirin, you don't want to use it in trauma patients as the risk of internal hemorrhaging is just too great.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey,
If you could locate those studies and email them to me, I would be very interested in reading them...truly.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Gaynor,

We have 5 rescued collared doves, the oldest is Poppet, I think we have had her/him for 4 years but we still don't know whether Poppet is male or female...I think female, because she is "in love" with John even though he only sees her once a fortnight whereas I am there 24/7. As for the others, we know one is female because there have been eggs, but we haven't established who laid them!

I will give a pigeon a single drop of Metacam once a day, for a dove I add water (0.5 ml) to the drop and give half that, so it has half a drop.

As Pidgey said, it is easier and safer to give a dove 0.1 ml of medication than 1ml. But whatever you decide make certain that you agitate the liquid thoroughly so that the synulox is evenly distributed.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It was online and I seriously doubt that I marked the page. You get a little upset reading about stuff like that because of the lab work they had to do to the animals to figure it all out, you know. Even this one hints at stuff:

http://www.thebubbler.com/forums/birds/10391-avian-pain-management.html

Pidgey


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Again, keep in mind...this bird has multiple serious injuries....if it were just the leg, that'd be one thing. But it's more than the leg. Eye...shoulder....pulled tailfeathers...lacerations/lesions on wing and neck. 

I have seen birds die although they were receiving the proper regimen of meds targeted for their symptom, but either did not rec'v a painkiller or even just MISSED a single dose of painkiller during treatment....

If this was a 700g Amazon, it'd be one thing. But with small birds the margin of error is much smaller.

Lastly...it is my belief you do everything you possibly can in a situation such as this. Get what is available. Use what is available. If the bird pulls through, beautiful. If the bird doesn't pull through, then one can rest assured ALL ws done that could have been done....and nothing was skimped or skipped on; 100% attention was paid to the patient, and not various conversations on a subject awaiting a quorum which will never materialize....

Do all you can for the bird.

My wishes and spirits are with you and the birdie, geebop. You are a very special human to have taken this on.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Can I just add a slight precautionary note regarding Metacam.
When using it in conjunction with other drugs there is always the very slim chance that the animal could have severe reaction, as with any drug.

I do know of dogs that are using it successfully but one of my dogs is very poorly at present from such a reaction. He isn't on any other medication but having been put on a course of Metacam last week, after two days he developed internal bleeding from renal toxicity. He had the same reaction from Rimadyl, a similar drug that vets use for pain relief after surgery. I know it is a wonder drug for many, but there is always that small risk in individual cases. So I assume the same risk must apply to birds.
I have used Metacam for pain relief with my last pigeon, and no problems, but just worth mentioning as you need to weigh up the benefits against the risk to the bird and only use if you are sure it is essential.

You are doing a wonderful job with this Dove, I do hope it comes through all this.


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all many thanks for your suggestions. someone is sending me some metacam so i should recieve it on tuesday, up to now this dove has had no pain killers. i willl try again to get better pictures of his injuries as they do look a little better apart from the bruising. his appetite is really good, i think i will have to give him a bigger food pot lol. i gave him a flat one so it was in easy reach and i'm just keeping it topped up, because he's eating more he's also pooping more again this still looks normal and i'm taking it this is all good for his recovery. i am going to talk to a vet tomorrow that sometimes helps wildlife, and see if he will treat this dove if i pay for his treatment. hopefully he won't advise euthanasia as the dove has been fighting since thursday, but i will keep you all posted.
once again many thanks all you're all so great
kind regards
Gaynor and dove


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Can I just add a slight precautionary note regarding Metacam.
> When using it in conjunction with other drugs there is always the very slim chance that the animal could have severe reaction, as with any drug.


I have only used it on an injured bird for two or three days at the most. This is because it was originally prescribed for my dog for long term use when she had arthritis, but I panicked when I read that dogs had died when using it long term.

Cynthia


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## Beth1965 (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi. I am a new wildlife rehabilitator. I am not really good at breaks and extensive injuries as of yet and still learning and training. Have you called any rehabbers around your area? We have a few here in Syracuse that will try anything to save any species. They could at least give you information on what to do and where to get the stuff to do it. It is unfortunate that a lot of vets and rehabbers think that pigeons, sparrows, and starlings are just disposable. Drives me crazy. For the most part I would try to splint the leg, If there is any wing left wrap it in normal position. The eye might benefit from some antibiotic ointment. We use gentamycin here. Of course keeping quite is most important right now. And pain managment would be nice. We use metacalm which a vet could give you and tell you the right does for this bird. Thank God for you and your good heart and trying to give this poor little thing a chance. I had similar experience a month or two ago. I came home and slammed my car door and scared a hawk off a pigeon it had just gotten. Well, the pigeon had a gaping hole in her side and most of her feathers pulled out and some leg damage. I am happy to say I took her to a friend of mine who is a wonderful rehabbber and now she is doing wonderful. The hole has healed up and her leg is coming along well. Soon she will be released back around where she came from. Well keep us posted and good luck. Bless you little bird.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'll tell ya'... there are a lot of considerations when you're rehabbing. It's just a lot more complex than you'd think. When rehabbers disagree, they often do so almost violently, and it's even recognized and discussed in some of the major rehabbing manuals. Check out the chapter on Euthanasia in the BASIC WILDLIFE REHABILITATION 1AB by the International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, as there's a section on anger. It gets into the anger that can arise between rehabbers over disagreements, amongst many other things. We've seen plenty of that around here from time to time, too.

There is also, in that manual, a section on pain and analgesics. It also poses the dilemma that occurs with some injuries and pain management: "Pain is, after all, a natural phenomenon that works in animals to assist them. If they break a leg and attempt to walk on it, pain will serve as a reminder that it is not a good idea to do so. If you take away pain with analgesics, the reminder is gone and further injury can result." -page 3.2 of the above cited reference. The section that comes from is entitled: "The Question of Pain and Analgesics", which doesn't answer the question solidly one way or the other--it merely attempts to install a logical process in the rehabber to give it some real thought before proceeding.

There have been a few times here that I've thought that the bird was lost specifically due to the use of Metacam. Once in a thread by Artemisia:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=14010

...and others that I don't remember enough to go searching for them right now. Personally, I usually will recommend an analgesic when there is pronounced inflammation and most broken legs won't do that. Burns will, for instance. We recently had a bird on here that some inhuman jerk (by far not strong enough of an insult) actually set on fire. That time, I strongly advocated Metacam.

Every now and then, you have to ask yourself why you're rehabbing in the first place. I've seen a lot of forum questions (other forums), where the query was posed of why people do it. It gets into questions like "are we really doing it for ourselves?" as though we derive the basis of our egos out of the godlike power of dispensing life in the face of certain death, for instance. It IS something to think about, and the ramifications of some of these points really make one take pause when a very strong disagreement occurs on our forum here. We're all different, after all, even though we all here like pigeons.

I do recommend getting the IWRC manual as it's not too expensive ($30) and reading through the entire thing. You can get it through the Publications link on the left side of this page:

http://www.iwrc-online.org/

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Beth...I am searching for rehabbers that will treat pigeons to put a list together. Many rehabbers won't . I would love it if you would email me any that you have in your area. I will personally call them and ask them if it's ok to make referrals.
If you would email them to me it would make such a difference for birds that are posted about in your area that we have no resource for.
[email protected]


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all just a quick update really. Dove is still doing really well been good taking antibiotics and is eating and drinking better all the time even let me spectate too. he is trying to use the injured leg not sure if thats good or not? his poop seems a little more dry than it was, could this be antibiotics side effect? i am still concerned over his eye, and i am trying to get better pictures. hopefully i will be back soon with some detailed pics of his eye.
see you soon
Gaynor and Dove


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, nothing about this is going to be easy. You don't want him using the leg at all, if possible. Dim light and cramped quarters can help. They usually try to move around a little bit for pooping's sake. It's a lot easier with a bird that's very used to you (especially domestic), because they'll just lay in the pillowed bed and let you fiddle with the food and water in front of them and the poop behind. The wild ones have a problem with that.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Gaynor,

I have posted some Metacam, but I had to dilute it with water before posting (5 drops just look like a smear in the tube) so you will need to keep it refrigerated and agitate vigorously before use.

Because it is diluted the dose for the dove is 0.25 ml, once a day. Best give it when it has food in the crop. It will keep for a few days in the fridge, you should not need to use it for long.

Do you have enough Synulox? I was going to pop a 250mg tablet in with the metacam but forgot. I can post that tomorrow with some probiotics to give dovey once e has completed his course of antibiotics.

Cynthia


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi all, well everything is still going fine and dove is still doing well. i have taken some more pics of his eye and added them to here and photobucket. 
Cynthia i have plenty of synulox for the time being but thank you for the offer, i would be grateful for the metacam and probiotics though. i really don't know what to do for his eye and i am open to suggestions.
many thanks all once again
Gaynor and dove


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For some reason, that link in your last post isn't clickable. I brought it over from the first page:

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll248/geebop1978/injured baby collared dove attacked by hawk/

Anyhow, I suppose it's possible that the eye can repair itself eventually and re-inflate. But for now, there's nothing you can do but wait and see.

Pidgey


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## geebop1978 (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi just thought i would let you all know that this little dove that i have called Ahiga is still doing great i am so pleased with his progress. i have removed his splint now and he can walk but with a limp, still not let him fly just yet cos he is still missing s few feathers, however his tail feathers are through and now longer than his wings, yey.
he has had some probiotics and euphrasia, which was kindly sent to me by Cynthia, although his eye looks the same no better but no worse, he loves being sprayed and preening himself. i am now stuck with what to do next? keep him or let him go to a sanctuary that will care for him due to his eye i dont think he could be released.
in an ideal world i would build him an avairy and keep him, but our home is rented through the armed forces due to my husbands job and so it's not really an option, for an outdoor home. i am not sure if he would live happily in our house on a long term plan even though he seems happy at the moment. i have a macaw and a cockatoo as pets but obviously they are in a different room, not sure if he would behappy mixing with them or vice versa, and would need to get him vet checked first which is a real problem for wild birds. i have spoken to a few sanctuaries locally and further up north from me and they can't help. if anyone on here has room and doesn't live too far i would be willing to take him to the right person should they be able to take care of him long term.
i am attached to this little fella now so i am in no ruch to rehome him, but i am trying to think of his future. i am going away to visit family and taking him with me as he still needs to be watched lol.
anyhow hope all is well on here and thanks again for all your help and i am sorry if i ranted.
regards to all 
Ahiga (means he fights)
and


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