# Tiger grizzle, classic grizzle, and undergrizzle



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Are they alleles of each other? As in, a bird cannot be homozygous grizzle and homozygous tiger at the same time? Is undergrizzle grouped with them too?


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

well if its grizzle which makes a salt and pepper effect as below on this mottle

















Wouldn't we have to conclude the are not alleles of each other when a black mottle similar to the bird above but not salt and pepper head?


----------



## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

You can have them on the same bird. But without test breeding it would be hard to tell. Grizzle/Under Gzriz, Tiger Griz/Grizzle, Tiger Griz/Under Grizz .. would be hard to tell,ect.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Print Tippler, grizzle and tiger grizzle are both dominant. So they can be het grizzle and het tiger and still show up. The black bird looks just mottled (or pied - I don't know what it looked like as a baby). Unless you're referring to the underside.

There are two slots open. If they are allelic, then they can be filled with:
- griz/griz
- tiger/griz
- tiger/tiger
- undergriz/undergriz
- undergriz/griz
- undergriz/tiger


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

White in the head and neck can be hard to tell what it is, especially in spread birds. Since the feathers are so small, unless there's large patches of piebald markings, it can look similar classic grizzle and tiger grizzle (both of which look pretty much the same on the head when the classic grizzle only effects the head, such as in some spreads and DCs).


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

The birds above (minus mine) are danish tipplers which start all black.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes I know  I was talking about your bird, haha


----------



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

oh, i believe it wasn't not all black. I was interested in that and ask the guy the day after i got the birds when he showed up to my loft and he said no, they don't do that, he said he knew about those kinds.


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I don't know for sure whether grizzle and tiger grizzle are alleles, but assuming we can trust the genetic symbols, G and G^T (for G superscript T) are alleles while under-grizzle is separate Ug (or ug) since their is some difference on the websites whether under grizzle is incomplete dominant or recessive. In my opinion undergrizzle is incomplete dominant, since I have a black cock that transfers his Ug to about half his offspring no matter which hen I mate him with!


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Sounds good!  I figured undergrizzle would be an oddball. I thought it was recessive though as I ended up with a blue bar expressing it in the bars out of two parents with no expression of it.


----------



## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sounds good!  I figured undergrizzle would be an oddball. I thought it was recessive though as I ended up with a blue bar expressing it in the bars out of two parents with no expression of it.


That's why there is confusion about under-grizzle. Some say dominant some say recessive, I say 2 different genes with similar expression.

All my dominant under-grizzles look perfectly normal until you spread the tail and flights. While the recessive under-grizzle is visible on on the shield of some birds. At least that is how I look at it.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here she is.









I'm thinking the undergrizzle looked a little better after she put some age on her, but I can't remember


----------

