# Wounded pigeon I found in my parking area



## hatopigeon

Hello, everyone! 

I am writing you from Tokyo, Japan...because I couldn't find any specific website about pigeons in Japanese...:-((

3 weeks ago, I found a wounded pigeon in my parking lot, so my sister and I took it to the vet immediately. 

After examining the pigeon briefly, the vet told us that it probably has some kind of a nerve problem because it couldn't stand straight and couldn't control its head right, and couldn't fly at all (although it's wings looked fine without any damage). 

Anyway, the vet told us that he will keep the pigeon @ his clinic and try to see if it can heal and if it gets better, the vet will release it to the natural habitat area (can't really say "back into the wild" because Tokyo is a mega-metropolis-city), but if the pigeon is too weak to recover...it will most likely stop eating and become too weak to live...and in that case, the vet will put the pigeon to sleep by giving it an injection....that was the explanation he gave us 3 weeks ago.
So we said out goodbyes to the pigeon there, and left the clinic...

Yesterday after 3 weeks, the vet called us and told us that the pigeon miraculously still lives, eats well and seems to be healthy...except that it still cannot fly nor walk straight, so it cannot be released into it's natural habitat area..and that the clinic does not have enough space to keep any animals that is healthy but no hopes for recovering...in another word, they had asked us to either take in the pigeon and raise it @ home, or give the vet an order to put it down with an injection!

How could we kill an animal which is showing so much desire to live?! 

So, we decided to take in the pigeon and try to raise it at our home...

Today, I went to a pet shop to get a comfortable large cage, heating pads, soft sands to lay it in the bottom of the cage, some pigeon dried food, and "living worms" (yuck...but the vet says that pigeon needs it's "living" protein, so…), etc...
And tomorrow, the vet will bring the pigeon to our house...!

Ok...so my question is...
Can we “tame" or "domesticate" a wild pigeon...? 
Will it really be "happy" living in a cage (though big…) all the rest of its life?!

I really don't want to kill it by injection...and I don't want it to die slowly bitten by some stray-cats, or run over by a car in the rain in this cold...

But...wouldn't it suffer too, if it has to live in an environment that it is not accustom to?

Our vet said: "Look, wild birds are usually very sensitive...and in most cases like this, it usually stops eating totally and dies...but this one is eating well and it sure is showing it's will to live...so I would think that it can get used to being a 'pet-pigeon"...no?"

Sorry to write such a long message...but I never had a bird(pigeon) in my house, and wanted some kind (any kind!) of advices/recommendation to all this...new experience...!

Thank you so much!
XOXO


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## Libis

It sounds like PMV--a virus that affects the nervous system of birds and causes them to have trouble with their heads and flying etc. These symptoms may recur a little bit whenever the bird is stressed, but he should make a recovery enough to be a happy pet--just not safe in the wild since he'd have trouble once he got scared. (If I'm right about the problem being this virus.) 
Pigeons can be tamed down, he will be just fine in a large cage in your home, and eventually could get to know your family.  Often (once a bird becomes comfortable in their cage and mostly recovers from illness) they start showing the wish to fly around in the house for exercise.


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## Libis

Here's a good page on care of PMV pigeons: 

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paramyxovirus__pmv_.php


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## Libis

What kind of cage do you have in mind for this little guy? A wire dog crate (that's clean) is a good cage for a pigeon. You can line it with newspaper. Another good cage is a large rabbit cage. 

Also, just since you've never had birds--scented candles are deadly to birds. As are plug-in air fresheners and some spray air fresheners. 

If you have dogs or cats, do not let the bird get cat or dog saliva on him--as their saliva has bacteria that is deadly to birds.


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## Quazar

Well done for looking out for this bird, and kudos to the vet for looking at the bird & giving you an honest outcome from the beginning. (not many do)

Firstly, pigeons make wonderful pets & do adapt very well to a domestic situation. (there are loads of stories on here about handicapped birds, their owners & their antics)
They are flock animals but will adapt very well to accept you and your family as their flock. It may take time as it is a feral bird, but even handicapped ferals do tend to realise that you are helping them.
The one thing to remember, is do not try to force the bird to do anything.
Doing so will make it wary of you and you will never get any sense of tameness from it.
In general, pigeons do not like to be handled. They may eat from your hand, sit with you & be otherwise tame, but go to pick them up & they may not like it.
Always remember, aything is ALWAYS on the birds terms, not yours.

Secondly - forget the "living protein". Pigeons DO NOT eat worms, they are seed & grain eaters.

The bird sounds like it has had some accident possibly hit by a car in the car park, or illness which has left it with neuorological problems affecting its flying and walking. This may dissapear in time, but even if it does, it could return if the bird is in a situation of stress so it is definately not a candidate for release at a later date.

If you are going to keep the bird as an indoor pet, a large cage is ideal, longer rather than taller, as long as it has room to flap & stretch its wings.
They tend to like flat perches, rather than branch type, and a little covered box/nest area where they can hide & feel safe when need be.
A simple brick on the floor is ideal for perching.
Best covering for the bottom of the cage is newspaper. Easy to clean & also lets you see easilly any change in their poop if something is wrong.
Also good to give them a small dish of grit (should be able to get that from pet shop). Because they dont have teeth they swallow grit to help grind & digest the seeds they eat.
They are normally explorative creatures, so even if it doesnt fly, it would appreciate a couple of hours out of its cage every day (supervised - they love hiding lol).
Also, do not be surprised once it settles in the cage if it attacks you if you put your hand in. Its only protecting what it considers its home, and it doesnt really hurt.

On another point, which will no doubt be a question in your mind, It is very rare for anyone to get ill from a pigeon, even if a pigeon is sick.
Observe normal pet hygene at all times & I'm sure you will have a happy time together. 

Theres loads of other stuff I've missed, but sure others will chime in.
If theres anything else you need to know, just ask, no matter how silly you may think it is (Always better to ask than just guess)

Again thanks for helping this bird & welcome to the world of pigeons


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## Libis

Yeah, there are only a couple of exotic species of doves that eat worms and bugs. If this is truly a pigeon--he just needs seeds and grit (probably you'll want to find a finch or parakeet or pigeon food mix that has vitamin D3 in it so that the bird will be able to absorb calcium.)


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## Jaye

Everything they said. Thanks for caring about your new friend. It would be great if you could post some photos.

Also...give us a more accurate description of his/her behaviour. 

1) Is she/she really not capable of standing and walking AT ALL ? or only sometimes ?

2) Can he/she flap her wings ?

3) Does his neck twist around or does he hold his head strangely ?

4) Does she seem to have any 'fits' or 'episodes' of flailing around uncontrollably ?

Lastly, can he eat on his own ?


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## Larry_Cologne

Hello hatopigeon,



> Ok...so my question is...
> Can we “tame" or "domesticate" a wild pigeon...?


I've re-habbed a number of pigeon rescues, and from my experience I think there is a bit of misunderstanding in your question.

Speaking from my experiences (others may have differing experiences), I can say that ...

Your pigeon will always be the boss (unless there is another pigeon around, and that pigeon is higher in the pecking order).

Note the words "pecking order." Applies definitely to birds. When applied to birds, humans don't fit into the scheme. We don't have beaks, therefore can't peck, ergo, can't be considered in the pecking order. Even "hunt and peck"on a typewriter or keyboard doesn't qualify us. We exist somewhere way apart and below the pecking order. If you look at what pigeons do to public statues, you can get an idea of our status: we are movable perches, for one.

You will be merely the incompetent, hard-to-train, exasperatingly dense, lower-life-form human. You will be the lazy servant. Most humans can't even qualify for servant status; they don't appreciate what being a servant to a pigeon can do for them.

You will be the possessor of the HAND, a major nuisance and sometimes enemy of the pigeon. Disciplining the HAND is a necessary and bothersome task of a pigeon encumbered with a human.

It takes much time and patience for a pigeon to train a human in the basics. Most pigeons won't bother. Some will rather up and die, just contemplating the effort involved. If your pigeon bothers to train you, consider it an honor! It shows he sees some hope for you. If you succeed, you won't mind your servant status in the least.

LOL ....

Larry


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## NZ Pigeon

hatopigeon said:


> Hello, everyone!
> 
> I am writing you from Tokyo, Japan...because I couldn't find any specific website about pigeons in Japanese...:-((
> 
> 3 weeks ago, I found a wounded pigeon in my parking lot, so my sister and I took it to the vet immediately.
> 
> After examining the pigeon briefly, the vet told us that it probably has some kind of a nerve problem because it couldn't stand straight and couldn't control its head right, and couldn't fly at all (although it's wings looked fine without any damage).
> 
> Anyway, the vet told us that he will keep the pigeon @ his clinic and try to see if it can heal and if it gets better, the vet will release it to the natural habitat area (can't really say "back into the wild" because Tokyo is a mega-metropolis-city), but if the pigeon is too weak to recover...it will most likely stop eating and become too weak to live...and in that case, the vet will put the pigeon to sleep by giving it an injection....that was the explanation he gave us 3 weeks ago.
> So we said out goodbyes to the pigeon there, and left the clinic...
> 
> Yesterday after 3 weeks, the vet called us and told us that the pigeon miraculously still lives, eats well and seems to be healthy...except that it still cannot fly nor walk straight, so it cannot be released into it's natural habitat area..and that the clinic does not have enough space to keep any animals that is healthy but no hopes for recovering...in another word, they had asked us to either take in the pigeon and raise it @ home, or give the vet an order to put it down with an injection!
> 
> How could we kill an animal which is showing so much desire to live?!
> 
> So, we decided to take in the pigeon and try to raise it at our home...
> 
> Today, I went to a pet shop to get a comfortable large cage, heating pads, soft sands to lay it in the bottom of the cage, some pigeon dried food, and "living worms" (yuck...but the vet says that pigeon needs it's "living" protein, so…), etc...
> And tomorrow, the vet will bring the pigeon to our house...!
> 
> Ok...so my question is...
> Can we “tame" or "domesticate" a wild pigeon...?
> Will it really be "happy" living in a cage (though big…) all the rest of its life?!
> 
> I really don't want to kill it by injection...and I don't want it to die slowly bitten by some stray-cats, or run over by a car in the rain in this cold...
> 
> But...wouldn't it suffer too, if it has to live in an environment that it is not accustom to?
> 
> Our vet said: "Look, wild birds are usually very sensitive...*and in most cases like this, it usually stops eating totally and dies...but this one is eating well and it sure is showing it's will to live*...so I would think that it can get used to being a 'pet-pigeon"...no?"
> 
> Sorry to write such a long message...but I never had a bird(pigeon) in my house, and wanted some kind (any kind!) of advices/recommendation to all this...new experience...!
> 
> Thank you so much!
> XOXO





Jaye said:


> Everything they said. Thanks for caring about your new friend. It would be great if you could post some photos.
> 
> Also...give us a more accurate description of his/her behaviour.
> 
> 1) Is she/she really not capable of standing and walking AT ALL ? or only sometimes ?
> 
> 2) Can he/she flap her wings ?
> 
> 3) Does his neck twist around or does he hold his head strangely ?
> 
> 4) Does she seem to have any 'fits' or 'episodes' of flailing around uncontrollably ?
> 
> *Lastly, can he eat on his own* ?


Sounds like hes eating well on his own?


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## hatopigeon

Libis, Quazar, Jaye, Larry, NZ:
Thank you all so so much for the very helpful information!!

*Libis*: Thank you so much for giving me lots of advices! I'm going to look into this PMV virus..it may be PMV from observing my new pigeon...(my little niece wants to named it "Potter" because she's got a pet hedgehog named "Harry"....lol)
Oh, and thank you for the advice about the cage! I lined the bottom of the cage (a fairly large-bird cage) with some sands instead of newspaper, but I might take your advice and eventually change it with newspaper because Potter is making a huge mess! He seems very happy with the sand, and he's trying to "bath" himself by flipping his wings, and scratching his head and body with the sand!
And don't worry...he is safely away from all other animals in the house! ;-))

*Quazar:* Thank you for your message! It was VERY helpful, and very clear, and I especially appriciated the part where you told me that I do not need to feed any "worms" to Potter...! LOL (though..I've already bought some "meal-worm" that is now growing..big...in a plastic container...Uwwwwgghh)
And your advice about "taming" Potter (lol) and about the brick in the cage....yes, ok, I'll try to get one very soon! 
I'm not afraid nor will never be offended if Potter or any of my animals ever attacks me...because I know that animals will only try to attack when they feel the need to protect themselves(fear)...or to hunt-kill-and eat...)
I will try to be very patient and give Potter all the time he needs to accept his new environment...I just hope he won't feel suffocated or suffer from being a "pet" pigeon...!

*Jaye:* Thank YOU for taking your time to post a message! I'll try to take some photos of Potter tomorrow and post it here! 
Regarding your questions:
1)He can stand and walk, but not straight...I'm not sure how I can discribe it...but he sort of goes "around in circle" with his head up-side-down while he walks...
2)Yes, he can flap his wings...but again...as he flaps...he loses control of his balance and goes up-side-down...
3)Yes, he does twist around his neck...actually...he cannot keep his head straight at all!
4)I'm not sure if its a "fit" or "episodes", but yes...he sometimes suddenly strarts to flap his wings allot, and goes around and around the cage hitting himself against the side of the cage....then stops (does this only for 1-2min every 15-20 min)
And the answer to your last question...yes, he can eat alone...but again, since he cannot keep his head straight, he seems to have difficulties eating and he needs time to eat his seeds...

*Larry Cologne:* Thank you for teaching me about the nature of birds!
Ok...since I have cats and am sort of used to being the "servant" (lol), I'll try my best to understand Potter...and accept being a "incompetent, hard-to-train, exasperatingly dense, lower-life-form-human"...as you said! ;-p In another words...I will try my best to be "trained" by him...only if he accepts me to be his "servant"!! )

*NZ Pigeon:* Hello! Yes, he is eating on his own (but with some difficulties "aiming" for the seed with his beak due to his "out-of-control" head) for now...! 


Anyway, Potter arrived just tonight (the vet couldn't make it the past two days), and is sleeping (or..relaxing...I hope?) in the cage I got for him (btw...not sure if Potter is a "he" or a "she"...the vet didn't check the sex..but since we named him "Potter", I will be using "he/him").
I've put some fresh water and bird seeds inside, and covered the cage with a big towel and left it in a warm corner of my bedroom because I thought this way, he can relax (calm) and get used to the new environment...

I will try to take some photos soon and post it here so that you guys can see what he looks like!!!

Thank you again for giving me lots of wonderful advices! You guys are great!
And please excuse me if I make any grammatical mistakes in English!

XOXO
hatopigeon ("HATO"=Pigeon in Japanese...)


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## almondman

Larry_Cologne said:


> Hello hatopigeon,
> 
> 
> 
> I've re-habbed a number of pigeon rescues, and from my experience I think there is a bit of misunderstanding in your question.
> 
> Speaking from my experiences (others may have differing experiences), I can say that ...
> 
> Your pigeon will always be the boss (unless there is another pigeon around, and that pigeon is higher in the pecking order).
> 
> Note the words "pecking order." Applies definitely to birds. When applied to birds, humans don't fit into the scheme. We don't have beaks, therefore can't peck, ergo, can't be considered in the pecking order. Even "hunt and peck"on a typewriter or keyboard doesn't qualify us. We exist somewhere way apart and below the pecking order. If you look at what pigeons do to public statues, you can get an idea of our status: we are movable perches, for one.
> 
> You will be merely the incompetent, hard-to-train, exasperatingly dense, lower-life-form human. You will be the lazy servant. Most humans can't even qualify for servant status; they don't appreciate what being a servant to a pigeon can do for them.
> 
> You will be the possessor of the HAND, a major nuisance and sometimes enemy of the pigeon. Disciplining the HAND is a necessary and bothersome task of a pigeon encumbered with a human.
> 
> It stakes much time and patience for a pigeon to train a human in the basics. Most pigeons won't bother. Some will rather up and die, just contemplating the effort involved. If your pigeon bothers to train you, consider it an honor! It shows he sees some hope for you. If you succeed, you won't mind your servant status in the least.
> 
> LOL ....
> 
> Larry



WOW!  
Now I realize what that feeling was each and every time I went into the loft. **** Sapien Inferioritus


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## Msfreebird

Wow....what a wonderful story!  Sounds like Potter is one lucky guy to have found you and a wonderful vet! One thing that may help him pick up seeds is to have a deep dish (3 inches or so) filled with seed. Pigeons make wonderful pets and they have an uncanny wisdom of knowing when their being helped and most always accept it. Welcome to PT and thank you for caring


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## Msfreebird

Larry_Cologne said:


> Hello hatopigeon,
> 
> 
> 
> I've re-habbed a number of pigeon rescues, and from my experience I think there is a bit of misunderstanding in your question.
> 
> Speaking from my experiences (others may have differing experiences), I can say that ...
> 
> Your pigeon will always be the boss (unless there is another pigeon around, and that pigeon is higher in the pecking order).
> 
> Note the words "pecking order." Applies definitely to birds. When applied to birds, humans don't fit into the scheme. We don't have beaks, therefore can't peck, ergo, can't be considered in the pecking order. Even "hunt and peck"on a typewriter or keyboard doesn't qualify us. We exist somewhere way apart and below the pecking order. If you look at what pigeons do to public statues, you can get an idea of our status: we are movable perches, for one.
> 
> You will be merely the incompetent, hard-to-train, exasperatingly dense, lower-life-form human. You will be the lazy servant. Most humans can't even qualify for servant status; they don't appreciate what being a servant to a pigeon can do for them.
> 
> You will be the possessor of the HAND, a major nuisance and sometimes enemy of the pigeon. Disciplining the HAND is a necessary and bothersome task of a pigeon encumbered with a human.
> 
> It stakes much time and patience for a pigeon to train a human in the basics. Most pigeons won't bother. Some will rather up and die, just contemplating the effort involved. If your pigeon bothers to train you, consider it an honor! It shows he sees some hope for you. If you succeed, you won't mind your servant status in the least.
> 
> LOL ....
> 
> Larry


LOL.........OHHHH, SO TRUE


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## hatopigeon

Msfreebird: Thank you for your sweet message and welcoming me to PT! 
I just changed Potter's water-dish and added some more seeds in a deeper dish (taking your advice...thanks!. I also went outside to look for a decent brick (there's a construction site near my house..lol) and put it into the corner of the cage...hope he likes it!
Potter seems more calm today...he won't panic when I slowly opened the cage to change his water/food...
I speak to him softly while I slowly approach his living area without trying to touch him...I think he likes it that way...;-)
Honestly, I never thought in my life time that I'd be looking after a pigeon... But I kind of like it...Potter is adorable...;-)
XOXO
hatopigeon


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## Miss-Sassypants

Do post some pictures of Potter! We would love to see him! He's so lucky to have met you! Thank you for taking such good care of him


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## almondman

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Do post some pictures of Potter! We would love to see him! He's so lucky to have met you! Thank you for taking such good care of him


Welcome back!


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## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> Msfreebird: Thank you for your sweet message and welcoming me to PT!
> I just changed Potter's water-dish and added some more seeds in a deeper dish (taking your advice...thanks!. I also went outside to look for a decent brick (there's a construction site near my house..lol) and put it into the corner of the cage...hope he likes it!
> Potter seems more calm today...he won't panic when I slowly opened the cage to change his water/food...
> I speak to him softly while I slowly approach his living area without trying to touch him...I think he likes it that way...;-)
> Honestly, I never thought in my life time that I'd be looking after a pigeon... But I kind of like it...Potter is adorable...;-)
> XOXO
> hatopigeon


OK, it sounds like things are going OK. 

I need to warn you...with Pigeons suffering and diplaying this sort of symptom ~ *sometimes it seems like they are eating when they are actually NOT. Meaning, they throw seed around a lot and they peck at it, but very little actually gets eaten.* So, they end up starving to death.

So, please...keep an eye on Potter's weight. Look at his breast and chest area and make sure that it does not get more bony and less fleshy over the next several days. Check it everyday.

if he starts losing weight, then he is no longer capable of feeding himself and will need to be fed by hand or he will die. Not to be alarmist, but this is a very important thing to keep an eye on.

OK, thanks for reporting back and do give us updates !


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## hatopigeon

Miss-Sassypants! Thank you for your warm welcoming! )

I took some photos today of Potter (indoor and outdoor).
Though he's got this problem with his head (twisted neck, head upside down) and does not have much "balance", while I was taking the photos, he was "posing" like a normal pigeon...) 
I couldn't get a photo of his twisted neck..! 

Anyway....he's a cutie...lol
XOXO


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## hatopigeon

*Potter's photo 2*

Here's the last photo...(the file was too large, so I had to post it in two messages! ) )


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## hatopigeon

Jaye! Thank you again for your advice! Yes...I've noticed that he is having a very difficult time eating his seeds...it seems like he can eat the smaller seeds easier than the larger ones like the corn-seeds...
I see that he has been poop-ing about 5-8 drops a day...which is probably not enough...so I'll try to watch him the next few days, and if he seems to be losing some weight, I will try to force-feed him...(never done it, so...let's hope I can succeed! )
What about soft-food? Like soaked bread or soaked crackers (salt-free)?
XOXO


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## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Msfreebird: Thank you for your sweet message and welcoming me to PT!
> I just changed Potter's water-dish and added some more seeds in a deeper dish (taking your advice...thanks!. I also went outside to look for a decent brick (there's a construction site near my house..lol) and put it into the corner of the cage...hope he likes it!
> Potter seems more calm today...he won't panic when I slowly opened the cage to change his water/food...
> I speak to him softly while I slowly approach his living area without trying to touch him...I think he likes it that way...;-)
> Honestly, I never thought in my life time that I'd be looking after a pigeon... But I kind of like it...Potter is adorable...;-)
> XOXO
> hatopigeon


Aww, it sounds like he's starting to get used to you. When I have nervous birds, I quietly sing to them (like how you'd sing a lullaby to a sleepy child.)


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## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Jaye! Thank you again for your advice! Yes...I've noticed that he is having a very difficult time eating his seeds...it seems like he can eat the smaller seeds easier than the larger ones like the corn-seeds...
> I see that he has been poop-ing about 5-8 drops a day...which is probably not enough...so I'll try to watch him the next few days, and if he seems to be losing some weight, I will try to force-feed him...(never done it, so...let's hope I can succeed! )
> What about soft-food? Like soaked bread or soaked crackers (salt-free)?
> XOXO


If you need to force-feed, defrosted frozen peas (no salt/no seasonings) will work. Other members here can let you know how many peas per day. (Especially if you know his weight.) 

Beautiful pigeon, btw. Once he feels better, he might need a bit bigger cage (unless he gets to fly around the house a lot.)


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## Quazar

just a little thought, if you move the brick just a bit further away from the edge of the cage.
They tend to stand on the brick, back up with their feet on the edge, then poop, so sometimes they may poop through the bars and make more mess OUTSIDE lol
also, it means their feathers wont get freyed or damaged as much by being rubbed up the bars.


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## hatopigeon

*Hello, Libis!* 
Awww, how sweet!!! Singing to a nervous bird...! ;-))
Your pigeons are so lucky to have a mom who can sing! 
(..Since I have no ear for music...I think Potter might get more nervous if I sing! LOL)
Great advice about the frozen peas too! I'll get some tomorrow...! Thanks!
The only thing that makes me very worried and nervous is that he still tries to escape with all his strength when I have to grab him (slowly, ofcouse) to remove him from his cage so that I can clean it up...and I can feel his heart-beating so fast while I hold him with my hands...So I'm sure he'll get more nervous and scared if I have to force-feed him...:-(( 
I just hope that it won't trigger his illness to get worse!
Btw, yeah...the cage does seem a bit too small for him, doesn't it?
I bought the largest one @ the pet shop and thought it was huge when I bought it...but now that I've seen everyone's pigeon cages here on PT...wow...Potter's one is so tiny! I guess it also has to do with being in Japan...everything is miniature/tiny here...! LOL
I'll have to order it online custom made in the near future...! ;-)


*Quazar!*
I was just thinking about that tonight while I cleaned up Potter's cage!!
You are sooo right!!! 
I found lots of poops on the edge of the cage, and I have also realized that Potter's tail is always bent against the bar of the cage...!
Wow...thanks for the great advice!!! I'm going to move the brick away from the edge of the cage right now...!

XOXO
Hatopigeon


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## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> *Hello, Libis!*
> Awww, how sweet!!! Singing to a nervous bird...! ;-))
> Your pigeons are so lucky to have a mom who can sing!
> (..Since I have no ear for music...I think Potter might get more nervous if I sing! LOL)
> Great advice about the frozen peas too! I'll get some tomorrow...! Thanks!
> The only thing that makes me very worried and nervous is that he still tries to escape with all his strength when I have to grab him (slowly, ofcouse) to remove him from his cage so that I can clean it up...and I can feel his heart-beating so fast while I hold him with my hands...So I'm sure he'll get more nervous and scared if I have to force-feed him...:-((
> I just hope that it won't trigger his illness to get worse!
> Btw, yeah...the cage does seem a bit too small for him, doesn't it?
> I bought the largest one @ the pet shop and thought it was huge when I bought it...but now that I've seen everyone's pigeon cages here on PT...wow...Potter's one is so tiny! I guess it also has to do with being in Japan...everything is miniature/tiny here...! LOL
> I'll have to order it online custom made in the near future...! ;-)
> 
> 
> *Quazar!*
> I was just thinking about that tonight while I cleaned up Potter's cage!!
> You are sooo right!!!
> I found lots of poops on the edge of the cage, and I have also realized that Potter's tail is always bent against the bar of the cage...!
> Wow...thanks for the great advice!!! I'm going to move the brick away from the edge of the cage right now...!
> 
> XOXO
> Hatopigeon


If you have trouble hanging on when force-feeding, you can hold him in a towel like this: 
http://www.hari.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/S5000022.jpg


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## hatopigeon

Libis! Ok! Thanks..! Wow...the parrot (?) in the photo is amazing...very beautiful!


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## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> What about soft-food? Like soaked bread or soaked crackers (salt-free)?
> XOXO


Not a great choice. I mean, you could try some bread pieces, just to see if he is familiar with bread scraps and has an easier time swallowing them. If so, then use a whole-grain bread. That would help if he likes that.

But if it comes to hand-feeding (not very difficult, really) you can use frozen or fresh peas and corn. We can explain how to do this if the need comes.

You are doing very well ! He is very lucky to have found you !


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## hatopigeon

Hello, Jaye!
Every time I wake up in the morning (around 5:50 am since Potter wakes me up!), I look into his cage, and there are dried corn seeds and other seeds all over in the cage...!
I think he does end up eating some, even with difficulties due to his out-of-control head.
But just in case, today I bought some frozen peas and corn and boiled it once, cooled it and force-fed him...he didn't really like being forcefully fed (who does, right? lol), but I was able to feed him about 20 peas and 8 corn pieces all together.
I also added some honey and a pinch of sea-salt to his lukewarm water (that's what I read on the internet....not sure if it's right though...)).
Afterwards when I put him back into his cage, he tried to bite me...:-(( Oh, but he also "cried" for the very first time...(does this mean that he was very upset..? or can it also mean that he is getting used to the environment enough for him to feel "free" to attack and cry?)
Oh gosh...I've got so many questions...so sorry! (><)
Anyway...it was raining today, so I didn't take him outside..hopefully tomorrow if it's sunny, I will take him outside for some sun...!
XOXO


----------



## Jaye

Hi.

That's good that you were able to handfeed him ! 20-30 pieces a day is a good supplement if you think he is eating some of his food all by himself. You can even divide it into 2 feedings.

You see...as someone has mentioned already...PMV (if that is what it is) is not deadly of itself. But the problem is it can get so bad that they cannot feed themselves and they eventually starve or are predated.

By 'cry' do you mean squeak or squeal ? High-pitched, sort of like a mouse squeak ? That is good, too. He is vocalizing, which always means he is getting stronger. *Good that he pecks at your hand, too.*..this means he is strong enough to have some Pigeon 'attitude' ! This is a ...not a  !!!!

Just to clarify, when you take him outside...of course do NOT let him out of the cage. I think you know this already but just want to make sure. He cannot be let outside until hopefully one day all symptoms are gone and he has regained good flying ability.

He can be let out INSIDE, however.

BTW...just to give you some idea...this is going to take a while. He will not be 'normal' again in a week. 
Usually this takes 4-6 weeks to rehab a PMV bird, then another 2 weeks at least to observe him/her to determine whether he/she is releasable again (if that is what you hope to do). Sometimes I have had such patients for 2-3 months....

Keep up the good work !!!


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## hatopigeon

*Potter's photo (w/ symptoms of PMV)*



Jaye said:


> Hi.
> 
> That's good that you were able to handfeed him ! 20-30 pieces a day is a good supplement if you think he is eating some of his food all by himself. You can even divide it into 2 feedings.
> 
> You see...as someone has mentioned already...PMV (if that is what it is) is not deadly of itself. But the problem is it can get so bad that they cannot feed themselves and they eventually starve or are predated.
> 
> By 'cry' do you mean squeak or squeal ? High-pitched, sort of like a mouse squeak ? That is good, too. He is vocalizing, which always means he is getting stronger. *Good that he pecks at your hand, too.*..this means he is strong enough to have some Pigeon 'attitude' ! This is a ...not a  !!!!
> 
> Just to clarify, when you take him outside...of course do NOT let him out of the cage. I think you know this already but just want to make sure. He cannot be let outside until hopefully one day all symptoms are gone and he has regained good flying ability.
> 
> He can be let out INSIDE, however.
> 
> BTW...just to give you some idea...this is going to take a while. He will not be 'normal' again in a week.
> Usually this takes 4-6 weeks to rehab a PMV bird, then another 2 weeks at least to observe him/her to determine whether he/she is releasable again (if that is what you hope to do). Sometimes I have had such patients for 2-3 months....
> 
> Keep up the good work !!!




Jaye:
You don't know how much I appreciate you and all other people's wonderful advices and comments...! 
They are VERY helpful, and I don't feel "lost" anymore trying to help Potter recover from his PMV virus..(reading about PMV, I now think that is what he's got!)

It was raining the whole day yesterday, so I couldn't take him outside, but today was cloudy (and warm), so I took him outside.
Yes, I keep him in a cage while I take him out because there are lots of stray cats around my area...I also have to keep an eye on him while doing so, again, because of the cats!

Regarding his "crying"...sorry...wrong choice of an English word...lol...
I meant "cooing"...but it was just one "deep-coo"...)
I think he is getting used to me...because now when I put my hand inside the cage, instead of trying to run away panicking and flopping his wings, he stays still and pecks(bites?!) my hand! (of course, trying to self-defense himself anyway...right? ;-))

Since I force-fed him yesterday, he has been pooping more, and the poop seems alot more "solid" than before...although, I'm not 100% sure because the bottom of the cage is covered with sands...(should I now change it to newspaper? Potter seems to be enjoying the sand, so I kept it that way until now...)
I will try to force feed him twice a day instead of once, like you said...

About the period of keeping Potter until he is recovered from this virus, yes, I am 100% prepared to look after him for months and even years.
At first, my vet (who is obviously not a bird expert like you guys!) told me that Potter probably flew into a building window or something and hit his head hard, and there are no cure for this and that I'll have to take him in for years, if not for his entire life. 

So just knowing that there is a hope (even if it's a "slight" hope!) for Potter to return to his natural environment in the future, I am very happy for him. (though...."I" may feel sad since I am getting attached to him already!)
And besides...if I may be totally "egoistic" (and honest)...I've spent allot getting all his stuff...it would be nice to have him around for a while! 

I know that once a pigeon gets PMV, there is no "complete" recovery and cure from it...and that they can only get "better"...so it will be very difficult for me to "judge" the right time to release him into his natural environment. 
But I can only do my best to help him live a full life.

I was able to get some photos of him today showing his PMV symptoms. (attached)

Jaye, thanks again for everything!

XOXO
Hatopigeon


----------



## Charis

Personally, I would replace the sand with paper. I can imagine he could easily get sand in his eyes. I do notice there is sand in his water.


----------



## Jaye

Yes, well...remember...we are not sure it is PMV or if it was an impact injury and concussion. They can both show very similar symptoms. That vet may have been correct. We don't really know.
So...it may be he recovers 100%...or not. So, it may be he is releasable...or not. As others have said, he is lucky to have found you..because you are willing to keep him if necessary.

Sand is usually OK, the only disadvantage being that you cannot see the poops as you say, and also you have to be careful because as it absorbs...it can 'seem' clean while it is not. But Charis makes a good point...as he tends to flop around, sand could get in his eyes. ...perhaps newspaper or paper towel on top of a soft towel is a better alternative...


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hi, Charis!*
Yes...he keeps flopping his wings or using his beak to "dig" the sands and some always ends up in his water...so I have to change the water 5-8 times a day...!
I think I'll take your advice and line the bottom with newspaper...over something like a paper towel like Jaye mentioned. 
Thank you!

*Jaye:* Oh...really? I read the page about PMV Libis sent me, and was convinced that it was PMV...humm...but come to think of it, one symptoms of PMV that he doesn't have is..that his poop was not really runny and liquid-ish even before I started to force-feed him. (I saw some of his poops on top of the brick..it's roundish and pretty solid.)

And yes, he's always got some sands around his eyes, so I'm going to change it today!

Btw, he seems to have gained more control over his eating "skills"...he can pick up the seeds much better than before! )
I also added some "soy-beans" to his seeds (read is somewhere that soybeans got good nutrition for pigeons...).
I'm just so glad I don't have to feed him live insects or/and worms...!!! )

XOXO
Hatopigeon


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> *Hi, Charis!*
> Yes...he keeps flopping his wings or using his beak to "dig" the sands and some always ends up in his water...so I have to change the water 5-8 times a day...!
> I think I'll take your advice and line the bottom with newspaper...over something like a paper towel like Jaye mentioned.
> Thank you!
> 
> *Jaye:* Oh...really? I read the page about PMV Libis sent me, and was convinced that it was PMV...humm...but come to think of it, one symptoms of PMV that he doesn't have is..that his poop was not really runny and liquid-ish even before I started to force-feed him. (I saw some of his poops on top of the brick..it's roundish and pretty solid.)
> 
> And yes, he's always got some sands around his eyes, so I'm going to change it today!
> 
> Btw, he seems to have gained more control over his eating "skills"...he can pick up the seeds much better than before! )
> I also added some "soy-beans" to his seeds (read is somewhere that soybeans got good nutrition for pigeons...).
> I'm just so glad I don't have to feed him live insects or/and worms...!!! )
> 
> XOXO
> Hatopigeon


Glad to hear that he's eating a bit better and that you're able to handfeed him  

Like the others said, it is possible that this is either head injury or pmv. Either way, though--you're doing a great job taking care of him!


----------



## jondove

hatopigeon said:


> I also added some "soy-beans" to his seeds (read is somewhere that soybeans got good nutrition for pigeons...).


I hope you also read that raw soy beans are toxic, so they should be roasted. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/soy-beans-41914.html?highlight=roasted

Soy beans contain much protein and fat, which is not bad, if not eaten in big quantities. But I personally don't like the idea of roasted beans of any kind for pigeons.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I mean everybody agrees that we shouldn't give pigeons roasted almonds or sunflower seeds, or anything else roasted, only raw seeds. 

But with soy beans it's different, they recommend them roasted, because raw they are toxic. It seems to me that's the lesser of two evils, but why do we need them at all? I think a pigeon can get enough protein from dried raw peas and more than enough fat from raw sunflower seeds for example.


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## Jaye

That's good to know.

BTW, Hato...the water dish...make sure it is very, very shallow. Believe it or not, there have been stories about neurologically impaired Pigeons actually drowning in their water....


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## hatopigeon

*Charis:*
Hi! Well, I had a very difficult time hand-feeding him yesterday...he was sooo stubborn and used all his strength not to open his beak...! And once he was put back into his cage, he poked me allot more than before...but for some reason, I feel more relief about this..I feel as though he is doing this because he is getting little less scared of me...maybe(?) 

*Jaye*:
Yes, I too also read somewhere about not making the water dish too deep for neurologically impaired pigeons , so I think his water dish is shallow enough... Thanks ! 

*jondove:*
Hello! Yes, the soybeans are roasted...! But not in the way in the you do in the Western world...umm...not sure how to describe it...but it is roasted the "Japanese" way....
Either way, I do agree with you about feeding too much soybean for it being "roasted" and all, and being very (too?) nutritious. 
However, since Potter is having a difficult time eating by himself due to his neurological problems, I think I read it somewhere that it can be good to feed soybeans for weak/ill/wounded pigeons...
But like you said, it cannot be very good for him to eat something out of his natural habitat food...so I'll try to limit giving him roasted soybeans as soon as I see him being stronger and will feed him more of his "natural habitat" based seeds... 
Thank you for your advice!


Before I hand feed Potter, I try to hold him gently against my chest and stroke(pat) his head with my finger..I hear his heartbeat getting slower, and he then closes his eyes and seems to be "relaxed" or "calmed" when I do this...but does this really mean that he is relaxed?
Yes, with dogs and cats...but pigeon closing their eyes and become very calm...is it the same thing as other animals?
I am SOOO new at taking care of a bird...so please excuse me for my ignorance!

XOXO 
Hatopigeon


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> *Charis:*
> Hi! Well, I had a very difficult time hand-feeding him yesterday...he was sooo stubborn and used all his strength not to open his beak...! And once he was put back into his cage, he poked me allot more than before...but for some reason, I feel more relief about this..I feel as though he is doing this because he is getting little less scared of me...maybe(?)
> 
> *Jaye*:
> Yes, I too also read somewhere about not making the water dish too deep for neurologically impaired pigeons , so I think his water dish is shallow enough... Thanks !
> 
> *jondove:*
> Hello! Yes, the soybeans are roasted...! But not in the way in the you do in the Western world...umm...not sure how to describe it...but it is roasted the "Japanese" way....
> Either way, I do agree with you about feeding too much soybean for it being "roasted" and all, and being very (too?) nutritious.
> However, since Potter is having a difficult time eating by himself due to his neurological problems, I think I read it somewhere that it can be good to feed soybeans for weak/ill/wounded pigeons...
> But like you said, it cannot be very good for him to eat something out of his natural habitat food...so I'll try to limit giving him roasted soybeans as soon as I see him being stronger and will feed him more of his "natural habitat" based seeds...
> Thank you for your advice!
> 
> 
> Before I hand feed Potter, I try to hold him gently against my chest and stroke(pat) his head with my finger..I hear his heartbeat getting slower, and he then closes his eyes and seems to be "relaxed" or "calmed" when I do this...but does this really mean that he is relaxed?
> Yes, with dogs and cats...but pigeon closing their eyes and become very calm...is it the same thing as other animals?
> I am SOOO new to taking care of a bird...so please excuse me for my ignorance!
> 
> XOXO
> Hatopigeon


He might like you gently petting--it could simulate how other birds/his mate would preen him:


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## Libis

Found another cute video--so now I've gotta post it!


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## hatopigeon

*Libis:*
Thanks for the cute video clips! They are so sweet! 
Since I don't have a beak, patting with my fingers might not "feel" the same as being preed with a beak, but I guess that's the same as not having a cat's hairbrush-like tongue but patting them with our hands to get that same sweet "purr"...lol


----------



## hatopigeon

*Bathing*

I'm on internet allot these days, reading many things about pigeons...

Many sites/people commented and wrote about how pigeons needs to bathe.

Should I/Can I let Potter bath in his current condition? 
And if I can, how often? Do I have to dry him afterwards?

I read something about bathing pigeons with PMV..and it says that letting them bathe actually reduces the "fits" and calms the pigeons...so I'd like to let Potter bathe, if it's possible.


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> I'm on internet allot these days, reading many things about pigeons...
> 
> Many sites/people commented and wrote about how pigeons needs to bathe.
> 
> Should I/Can I let Potter bath in his current condition?
> And if I can, how often? Do I have to dry him afterwards?
> 
> I read something about bathing pigeons with PMV..and it says that letting them bathe actually reduces the "fits" and calms the pigeons...so I'd like to let Potter bathe, if it's possible.


If you do, be very very careful as he could easily drown in this condition. Also, be sure that he doesn't get chilled.


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## Jaye

I have never heard of this before, actually.

I think the dangers might outweigh the benefits...but Hato, can you give us a link to where you read that ? It would be interesting to see.

To me, as Libis said, the possibility of ingesting some water into the respiratory system, as well as becoming chilled afterward...would lead me not to do this. His system is already compromised...any additional stress added to his routine probably would not benefit him. Also, it isn't easy to dry a Pigeon, so if parts of him remained damp, he could develop pneumonia....

Maybe a spray bottle light misting with hot tap water for about a minute....that would be a mild resort and he might like it. It only gets his outermost feathers damp and if he is in a very warm room, this might be OK.

Hot tap water in a spray bottle. By the time the water hits the air in a mist spray, it is already cooled to warm.


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## spirit wings

Libis said:


> He might like you gently petting--it could simulate how other birds/his mate would preen him:


That does not sound like a good idea to me at this time... seems he is still recovering. why throw more stress at him. she will have time to try to tame him if she wants later.


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## Quazar

A pigeon will bathe when IT wants to bathe, if it is provided with a bathing bowl (or may even try to use its water dish).
If you try to bathe any pigeon against its will, it will become stressed.
Stress is the LAST thing you want in a PMV bird as it will induce yet more fitting.


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## hatopigeon

*Libis, Jaye, SW* and *Quazar:*
Thank you for the advice! Ok...all of your advices makes sense...
I keep reading that the most dangerous thing for PMV birds are to be under "stress", and he seems most "relaxed" when he is in his cage which faces the window with a view of the river...(covered with towels on 3 sides). 
So even when I read about "bathing can calm" pigeons with PMV, I was not 100% sure about it...thank goodness I asked you guys first! )
As much as I like to think that he is getting used to having me around, I doubt it very much that he "enjoys" being held and forced out of his cage too often...so I'll wait until he is in a better condition and more adjusted to this new environment for his first bathe..

*Jaye:* 
Here is the site where I read about bathing pigeons with PMV...
http://www.pigeonangels.com/t849-bath-day-for-pmv-birds

*spirit wings:*
Yes, ok...I guess petting him too much is also very stressful for him, so I'll only do it when I have to hand-feed him. :^)

Last night, Potter and I slept in a different room for the very first time.
I found him a better spot in my house than my dark bedroom...!
He now has a great view(?) of the main river in Tokyo (Sumida-river), and seems to always be looking outside! (and I think we both slept better that way...less noisy for Potter!)

XOXO
Hato


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## Quazar

I dont see any harm in providing him with facilities to bathe, as long as you are always there to supervise while the bathing dish is out - just in case.
Once he settles down or trusts you a bit more & doesnt stress as much when you handle him, maybe stand him in a shallow dish of about 1 cm of water & see what he does, but certainly dont bathe him yourself as that will stress him, and always have somewhere warm where he can dry off relatively quickly.
Also, while its good for him to view the outside, he may well get stressed & "flighty" if he sees other birds flying about, so keep a careful eye on him in that respect also


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## Jaye

Thanks for the link. My only concern is him getting chilled. If you can get him warm and dry very quickly afterward, I suppose no harm and maybe some benefit. You see, even when the ambienty air temperature is 'comfortable' for a human...for a wet bird, less so.
You just don't wanna leave an ill bird wet (even just under the wings or the underside of the abdomen) for very long...


----------



## hatopigeon

*Quazar* and *Jaye:*
Thanks again for the advices!
Yeah...I think I'll wait until Potter gets better, and when he is more used to his new environment....and when the "right time" comes (which I'll most likely ask you guys again for advices!), I'll let him take his bath, and I'll definitely be with him the entire time he bathes in the shallow dish of water! And I'll make sure that he will not feel chilly or cold afterwards! 

*Quazar*, 
Most of the birds that Potter can see from this window are seagulls flying over the river (the river is very close to the sea)....I hope it doesn't make him "miss" flying too much...:-( I don't want to keep his "view" towards the living room or the wall...because they are not his normal environment view...

This might sound very silly, but...I read that pigeons mate for life....and that they live in a flock...so when I see Potter gaze out the window, I often wonder and worry that perhaps he is thinking of his mate, or his flock....and I feel so so sad and sorry for him..
But the only thing I can do and hope right now is to help him heal and become strong...and for him to get used to me and this human environment....

I'm not sure if pigeons have the same "emotional feelings" like us human do...but I have a feeling that they might, because if they show "fear" or "anger" and "mate for life"...why not other feelings?

In any case, I am so grateful for all your patience and advices!
Thank you!!!

XOXO 
Hatopigeon


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## Miss-Sassypants

You are a good person, Hato. To be so concerned about the pigeon's emotional needs. God bless you!


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## Woodnative

I agree it is very good of you. While pigeons are extremely devloted mates and parents, bad things happenall too often in the wild. If a mate or youngster is lost they won't grieve long and will find a new one relatively quickly. If he is not feeling good, he will not want to be flying much at the moment anyway.


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## Jaye

I think there's a difference between grieving and remembering. If he (she?) was mated, for sure something inside urges him to get back to his/her mate. 
I have nursed quite a few Pigeons and had them quite a while then released, and within a week I saw they were reunited with their mate.(Often the mate is quite 'mad' and will henpeck the found-again sweetie for quite a while !" ...as in "and where have YOU been?" )
Probably equal chance that their mate has moved on, or been wooed by another...in which case, as Woodnative says...they get over it relatively quickly. 
If there was a nest being tended at the time of the injury/illness...one parent can manage to tend the nest and raise the babies. So, they are tough little characters....

You are right, Hato...the best you can do for Potter now is just try to get him better....the rest will ultimately be OK.

(BTW...this is a digression, but Feefo posted a thread in the General Discussion section entitled "Vote in Memory..." Please, everyone who cares about our Feral firiends, go there and chime in...)


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## hatopigeon

Hi again, *Miss-Sassypants*!
Thank you for your sweet message...!

In Japan, "illness" or "being weak/sick" is called "byouKI"..and the last "KI" stands for "spirit/mind/heart" and "life-energy". 
In another words, we believe that any illness including "external" and "physical" illness are all connected to the persons (or animals/subjects) "internal" and "mental" health.
If one has a strong "spirit" and the "will to live" and have healthy thoughts and positiveness, it can help "heal" their illness...))

I read that pigeons can understand alphabets, the reflexion in the mirror, and can also tell the difference between a Picasso and Matisse!! 
...If these are all true, than I have a feeling that their "KI"(spirit) can help heal their illness faster... 
That is why I am concern if Potter had a mate or a family....;-))
P.S. How many pigeons do you have?

*Woodnative*:
Hello! 
I see...I guess it makes sense to have the natural strength (instinct?) to go on with his/her life without mourning and grieving too much if you live in the wild...! I guess ones need that "C'est la Vie" mentality to keep on going and to survive...!

*Jaye*:
I'm so relieved to know that if Potter had babies in his(her?!) nest, it will be tended by his/her partner! )

Today is rainy and cold here in Tokyo, so I wanted to see if Potter was comfortable enough to stay out from his cage and perhaps "hang around" in my bedroom.
I covered my bed with lots and lots of towels, and put a small card-box lined with paper at the corner of my room (just incase he needed a quiet dark cozy place where he feels safe.) with fresh water and some pigeon-seeds available.
Amazingly, he didn't mind at all, and did not panic...in fact, he started to walk towards my pillow where I was lying, and then dozed-off near me!
We sort of took a "nap" together there and then. (for about an hour) )
I think my family thinks I'm crazy....lol (I probably am!)

I honestly never-ever thought that pigeons could be SOOO ADORABLE and sweet!!!
He still tries to poke me with his beak when i try to pet him, but I can tell that the way he pokes me is getting...umm...how can I discribe it..."sweeter"...?

XOXO
Hato


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## hatopigeon

*P.S to Jaye*:
I went to vote for Feefo's post on General Discussion's "Vote in Memory.." 
How horrible...!


----------



## Jaye

Thanks for doing that. Every vote helps a bit.

Pigeons certainly are fighters, as you are learning. Their will to live is very great, as any Pigeon person will tell you. Ferals have a lot going against them, more so today than in the past...so the more Human friends they have, the better.


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## hatopigeon

Jaye: I totally agree with you...! Hato


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## Jaye

...so...now about that place you have in Florence which you are going to let me use.....


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## hatopigeon

lol @ Jaye!
My house in Italy is not empty...;-) 
My husband is Italian, and he lives there with me...lol
But of course you know that you are always welcome to come and visit us!
We live in the center of Florence, right in front of the famous Duomo, but my husband is a passionate horse-lover, so we've got about 8 horses (actually, 9 now since one colt was just born last week!) 20 min away from the city of Florence @ my husband's family farm. 
You might not like the farm because...they keep chickens, rabbits, PIGEONS there...to EAT...! :-((
Once, I saw my father-in-law kill a rabbit and a pigeon for a "feast", and I almost fainted...!
So you can imagine what they said when I told them about Potter.....
("Ahh! Bene, bene! Bring it back to Florence, and we'll have another feast! Make sure you feed him good and make him nice and fat for the feast!")

Again....You know that you are always welcome in Tokyo or in Florence!
I travel back-and-force all the time. 

Oh, and if you are wondering who will look after Potter while I am back in Italy...it will be my older sister! 
She lives right above me here in Tokyo and she will be looking after Potter for me while I am away...!
XOXO


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> lol @ Jaye!
> My house in Italy is not empty...;-)
> My husband is Italian, and he lives there with me...lol
> But of course you know that you are always welcome to come and visit us!
> We live in the center of Florence, right in front of the famous Duomo, but my husband is a passionate horse-lover, so we've got about 8 horses (actually, 9 now since one colt was just born last week!) 20 min away from the city of Florence @ my husband's family farm.
> You might not like the farm because...they keep chickens, rabbits, PIGEONS there...to EAT...! :-((
> Once, I saw my father-in-law kill a rabbit and a pigeon for a "feast", and I almost fainted...!
> So you can imagine what they said when I told them about Potter.....
> ("Ahh! Bene, bene! Bring it back to Florence, and we'll have another feast! Make sure you feed him good and make him nice and fat for the feast!")
> 
> Again....You know that you are always welcome in Tokyo or in Florence!
> I travel back-and-force all the time.
> 
> Oh, and if you are wondering who will look after Potter while I am back in Italy...it will be my older sister!
> She lives right above me here in Tokyo and she will be looking after Potter for me while I am away...!
> XOXO


Aww, what breed of horses?

I hope Potter is doing well.  It sounds like he's taming down a lot if he's napping next to you


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## hatopigeon

Hi, *Libis*!
Most of our horses are Maremma horses...they are typical horses in the Tuscany region of Italy. There are lots of "wild horses" area in Tuscany region where many wild Maremma horses lives by area surrounded by swamps and marshes. One can see these beautiful creatures resting and drinking water even from the highway! They are very tuff and stubborn, but also very obedient once they are "broke in". 

Anyway...this is a pigeon forum, so I'll stick to writing about Potter instead of our horses!
))
Potter is doing good! Some days, he's got good days where I see less symptoms of his twisted neck and fits...but some days, not so good...

While I too would like to think that he is getting "tamed down" because he took a nap next to me...I rather think that he is just getting "used" to the fact that I was there near him...!
Yes, he did have his eyes closed and seemed "relaxed", but every time I turned around to see him and/or tried to "pet" him...he'd back away..!

But he is cute no matter what he does! )

XOXO 
Hato


----------



## kev01293

well done xoxo for rescuing this pigeon and taking it to a vet and then going even further and giving it a home,im sure he/she will be very happy with you, well done, kevin


----------



## hatopigeon

Hello, *Kevin*!

Thank you for your sweet words...!

Yes, I hope Potter will be happy...but I think he'll be the "happiest bird ever" if I can just help him recover and assist him to become strong and healthy again and release him back to his flock/partner/environment....!
I just hope that day will come eventually...and that is what I keep telling him every time I change his food and water. 

In the meantime...I hope he gets less uncomfortable and scared with his current new environment!

Thanks again for your support and words, Kevin!

P.S. Btw...."xoxo" was for "hugs-and-kisses"...lol

xoxo...Hatopigeon


----------



## Jaye

Oh....sorry to hear about the Pigeon farm...maybe in time you can convince your father in law to give that up.

That is nice to split time between Tokyo and Florence...two very different atmospheres, certainly !

Even if Potter becomes used to you, being an adult he would still be releasable...IF his symptoms ultimately go away and remain away for a good period.


----------



## hatopigeon

Hi, *Jaye*!

Yes...in fact, though I LOVE my father-in-law very much, we had/have many heated arguments regarding how we both feel about animals....He is actually a wild-bore hunter, and his passion is to hunt animals...so his "idea" of how animals should be treated and what animals "were meant to be" in this world is totally/completely opposite to how I feel...
So yes, we do end up in heated arguments many times, but although I do not agree to how he and his "hunting friends" treats these animals, in a way I also have to respect that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and have the right to go on with how they feel is "right"....so I try not to go to the part of the farm where they keep these poor animals...(My father-in-law and his friends...they don't kill to sell...they actually do it to keep their "self-sufficient life-style"....they even grow their own vegetables too..)

I am so happy to hear that Potter has "hope" to be back in his own world!
Thank you so much for giving us this "hope", Jaye!
Your expert advice and words means allot to me...it had truly helped me to how I should look after Potter and to how I should "approach" Potter too! 

I have read many other threads on this site, to where you strongly state and stand by your own opinion no matter how other people may "bash" you....
To stand for your belief is NOT an easy thing to do...!

Everyone is different, and has their own thoughts and beliefs...and you stand strong with yours, which I admire very much!

I also respect the fact how you are always very patient and how you take your time to help other inexperienced people to look after their pigeons!

Pigeons are very lucky to have a strong human protector like you...!

It would be lovely to meet you in person one day..! 
So you know my doors (both in Tokyo or in Florence!) will always be opened for you!

XOXO 
Hato


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Sorry I'm a bit slow... but those pictures of Potter is soooo cute!!! He looks happy and comfortable! 

Regarding your question, I have one pigeon, Krik-Krik! Also a rescue. He's a little brat and the love of my life! Pigeons are a blessing, sigh.. I can't live without mine, he brightens up my life, the little bugger!

I'm so glad you found Potter! He's a lucky little thing, as you are so loving and kind!

Keep updating us with Potter's adventures and journey to recovery! Thank you for all you have done for him


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

almondman said:


> Welcome back!


Thank you! Hope all is well!


----------



## hatopigeon

*Miss-Sassypants*!

Awwwwwww!!! What a cute name, Krik-Krik!!
He sure is one fortunate little fella having a mom like you!!! )
Do you have photos of Krik-Krik? I'd LOVE to see them!
Was he already an adult bird when you found him? And what was wrong with him when you rescued him? Gosh...sorry for going on and on...I'm just so interested in others experience, and how they are adapting to their little partners...lol


Potter is doing great!
As from yesterday, I keep him out from his cage, hanging around my Studies while I work on my computer...lol
Though he is out from his cage, free to walk around...he still looked very bored today, so I found some "pigeon cooing" videos from You-Tube, and played it for him...lol
He was very amused and started to tilt his head to understand where the sound was coming from...
I keep telling him to be patient, and that if he recovers full-time, he'll be free to go back to his family and friends...!

Anyway, everything is good here!
Look forward to hearing from you again!
P.S. Don't worry about responding fast! Take you time! I know you are busy! ;-)

XOXO 
Hato


----------



## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> Everyone is different, and has their own thoughts and beliefs...and you stand strong with yours, which I admire very much!
> 
> I also respect the fact how you are always very patient and how you take your time to help other inexperienced people to look after their pigeons!
> 
> Pigeons are very lucky to have a strong human protector like you...!
> 
> It would be lovely to meet you in person one day..!
> So you know my doors (both in Tokyo or in Florence!) will always be opened for you!
> 
> XOXO
> Hato


I think at the end of the day the overwhelming majority of people here really do care greatly about Pigeons, so even when the arguments become heated sometimes...and when that happens we sometimes say things we probably could have said differently...for the most part I try to remember we are more similar than different.

For me, the connection between humans and other living things is just very obvious and deeply felt...so I have difficulty with people who consider animals 'lesser beings'. I will also fight tooth and nail against an ill-conceived notion which I feel will cause any animal harm. But those subjects are few and far between...

Yes, well..believe me...when I started out I also knew nothing about how to rescue a Pigeon, and thanks to other people here I learned a whole lot. 
(Now...I warn you now...once you have rescued ONE Feral....you will soon find that you will be crossing paths with others in need of your help. The 'word' gets out in the Pigeon world. This sounds crazy, but it is quite true !)

Florence...Tokyo...sure, I'll take both...

I am glad Potter is doing well...


----------



## hatopigeon

*Jaye*:

You are an incredibly kind-hearted person...and also very understanding and forgiving too. 
Those are values that are very hard to find these days in a person, and you've got them all.

Regarding me "crossing path with others in need"....yes, I think you might be right...;-)
I noticed myself that ever since I took in Potter, everyday when I drive near this railroad over-pass (where there are lots of pigeons)...I stop my car just to see if there are any injured bird in need of help....lol 
I never ever stopped my car there to observe the pigeons, but now I do...hummm...!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Hi Hato! Hope your day is going well!

We found Krikky when he was a little tot - maybe 15 days old? Bald, mite-infested and had pigeon pox. He fell from his nest on a rainy night. That's how I ended up on this forum (and never want to leave! Hehe). You can see Krikky's pics on my profile page... it's all him. At first we thought he was a she, then the "cockiness", strutting, mirror-narcissim started and now I'm convinced he's a dude.

Keep updating us about Potter. Would love to see more pics! It is so cute that you spend a lot of time with him. Do you talk to him? I think pigeons love it if you move closer to them and start a soft conversation with them... they will feel loved!

When I come home from work, Krikky will jump onto the back of my palm, I raised him to eye level, and speak to him very softly... "Has my little baby been a good boy today? "Have you eaten?" "Did you play with your toys?" (just like you would with a baby/toddler).. and tell him I miss him, kiss him, tickle his feathers, etc.

I think pigeons understand verbal emotions. Krikky will immediately be _verrry_ happy and _settled_ everytime I do that, he will nudge my fingers, hand, nose, whatever he can nozzle, and give me his 'pigeon kisses'... it is sooo heartwarming!! You know the little one is secured and feels loved!

I tend to think he is a family member, not a pet/or animal, and will shower him with as much attention (or maybe more!). As pigeons are sociable creatures, I think it's important to make sure he feels part of a family, and is constantly being emotionally assured so. He is, afterall, a solo pigeon surrounded by humans.

With you being so loving, I am certain Potter is one lucky pigeon!! Not to mention Potter, heck, _I_ feel glad I met you on this site, you seem like a LOVELY person!! Enjoy every minute with Potter, it's totally worth it! God bless!


----------



## Libis

That is a beautiful breed of horses!  I hadn't heard of them before, so I hurried over to google and looked them up. 

Glad to hear that Potter is doing well. It sounds like if he does not recover he will be very happy in your home. Oh, and on petting--some pigeons and doves dislike too much petting (even if they're otherwise tame). It just depends on the bird. They can be kind of like cats in personality. (Also, sometimes a hand moving a bit too quickly can be startling and look like a predator. I find that with my doves I have to be much slower in bringing my hand near them than I do with parrots.) 

Hatopigeon--you're a really sweet person to have taken this little guy in and taken so much consideration about his feelings while you rehab him.  I hope he does make a full recovery.


----------



## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> *Jaye*:
> 
> You are an incredibly kind-hearted person...and also very understanding and forgiving too.
> Those are values that are very hard to find these days in a person, and you've got them all.
> 
> Regarding me "crossing path with others in need"....yes, I think you might be right...;-)
> I noticed myself that ever since I took in Potter, everyday when I drive near this railroad over-pass (where there are lots of pigeons)...I stop my car just to see if there are any injured bird in need of help....lol
> I never ever stopped my car there to observe the pigeons, but now I do...hummm...!
> 
> XOXO
> Hato


Yup. You will certainly be doing _that_...start _looking for_ Pigeons more than you ever have ! 

But even beyond that...I am telling you...they are going to start crossing your path even if you are not looking for 'em. The stories about this people here could tell you !!!


----------



## hatopigeon

*Adooorableee!!!*



Miss-Sassypants said:


> Hi Hato! Hope your day is going well!
> 
> We found Krikky when he was a little tot - maybe 15 days old? Bald, mite-infested and had pigeon pox. He fell from his nest on a rainy night. That's how I ended up on this forum (and never want to leave! Hehe). You can see Krikky's pics on my profile page... it's all him. At first we thought he was a she, then the "cockiness", strutting, mirror-narcissim started and now I'm convinced he's a dude.
> 
> Keep updating us about Potter. Would love to see more pics! It is so cute that you spend a lot of time with him. Do you talk to him? I think pigeons love it if you move closer to them and start a soft conversation with them... they will feel loved!
> 
> When I come home from work, Krikky will jump onto the back of my palm, I raised him to eye level, and speak to him very softly... "Has my little baby been a good boy today? "Have you eaten?" "Did you play with your toys?" (just like you would with a baby/toddler).. and tell him I miss him, kiss him, tickle his feathers, etc.
> 
> I think pigeons understand verbal emotions. Krikky will immediately be _verrry_ happy and _settled_ everytime I do that, he will nudge my fingers, hand, nose, whatever he can nozzle, and give me his 'pigeon kisses'... it is sooo heartwarming!! You know the little one is secured and feels loved!
> 
> I tend to think he is a family member, not a pet/or animal, and will shower him with as much attention (or maybe more!). As pigeons are sociable creatures, I think it's important to make sure he feels part of a family, and is constantly being emotionally assured so. He is, afterall, a solo pigeon surrounded by humans.
> 
> With you being so loving, I am certain Potter is one lucky pigeon!! Not to mention Potter, heck, _I_ feel glad I met you on this site, you seem like a LOVELY person!! Enjoy every minute with Potter, it's totally worth it! God bless!


Miss-Sassypants!!!
OMG, OMG...Your Kirkky is SOOOO cute!!! LOL
And he sure is the LUCKIEST pigeon!!! 
Look at those toys he's got!!! 
Wow....gosh, Sassy...you are really spoiling him, aren't you? ;-))
(I wish I was Kirkky...! I'd take his place anytime!) 

I also loved all the little comments you added to your photos...ahaha! 
The "bully" pigeon was sooo funny....LOL

So you live in Singapore?! If so, we're not that far from each other! 
I hope that one day, I get to meet you too..... 
We can then have a real-time "pigeon-talk"....!

Please send my best to Kirkky♥♥♥

XOXO Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hi, Libis!*



Libis said:


> That is a beautiful breed of horses!  I hadn't heard of them before, so I hurried over to google and looked them up.
> 
> Glad to hear that Potter is doing well. It sounds like if he does not recover he will be very happy in your home. Oh, and on petting--some pigeons and doves dislike too much petting (even if they're otherwise tame). It just depends on the bird. They can be kind of like cats in personality. (Also, sometimes a hand moving a bit too quickly can be startling and look like a predator. I find that with my doves I have to be much slower in bringing my hand near them than I do with parrots.)
> 
> Hatopigeon--you're a really sweet person to have taken this little guy in and taken so much consideration about his feelings while you rehab him.  I hope he does make a full recovery.




Libis!
Yes, Maremma horses are beautiful horses... As I said, they are very stubborn, but once you break them in...they are very loyal to you...!

Thanks again for your advice with Potter! Yes...I think Potter is definitely the type which doesn't like being petted...! Obviously because he was always a wild feral (I'm guessing...), and also because of his PMV...he still does not have any control over his neck and balance...
He still doesn't "coo" @ all (just that once when I put my hand in his cage the second day)....and that worries me a bit...

Anyway....Libis, thank you so much for you kind and warm words!! 
Logging onto "Pigeon-Talk" site is now my most favorite thing to do! (A part from looking after Potter...! )

XOXO Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Crossing my path with pigeons...*



Jaye said:


> Yup. You will certainly be doing _that_...start _looking for_ Pigeons more than you ever have !
> 
> But even beyond that...I am telling you...they are going to start crossing your path even if you are not looking for 'em. The stories about this people here could tell you !!!


Jaye:
I'd love to read these stories about people crossing their paths with pigeons...! Are there any in this site I can read? (couldn't find any...)
Anyway...yes, my life would be very colorful and wonderful if it does!

By the way....need another advice...
I only have a brick in Potter's cage...do pigeons like to sleep or relax on a "softer"...perhaps a "cushion" type of bedding?
Should I add something into the cage?


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Libis!
> Yes, Maremma horses are beautiful horses... As I said, they are very stubborn, but once you break them in...they are very loyal to you...!
> 
> Thanks again for your advice with Potter! Yes...I think Potter is definitely the type which doesn't like being petted...! Obviously because he was always a wild feral (I'm guessing...), and also because of his PMV...he still does not have any control over his neck and balance...
> He still doesn't "coo" @ all (just that once when I put my hand in his cage the second day)....and that worries me a bit...
> 
> Anyway....Libis, thank you so much for you kind and warm words!!
> Logging onto "Pigeon-Talk" site is now my most favorite thing to do! (A part from looking after Potter...! )
> 
> XOXO Hato


If he doesn't coo a lot, maybe he's a girl


----------



## Jaye

You could put a towel in there as a soft surface...see if he/she likes it. keep in mind, most Ferals do sleep on hard surfaces...but for one with these symptoms perhaps a towel bed isn't a bad idea.


----------



## Libis

Jaye said:


> You could put a towel in there as a soft surface...see if he/she likes it. keep in mind, most Ferals do sleep on hard surfaces...but for one with these symptoms perhaps a towel bed isn't a bad idea.


Just keep an eye on the towel--I've had birds catch their toenails in the loops.


----------



## Quazar

hatopigeon said:


> By the way....need another advice...
> I only have a brick in Potter's cage...do pigeons like to sleep or relax on a "softer"...perhaps a "cushion" type of bedding?
> Should I add something into the cage?


What Ive done for sick or injured birds is make up a donut style nest.
(whether they need it for support or not).
You can make one easily by rolling up a towel, form it into a ring, then cover with another towel (I also cover it with paper kitchen roll, easier for cleaning and stops them catching their toes)
Most birds do like to perch, but some when they have the option of a soft bed, will use it, especially if there is a heater under that part


----------



## hatopigeon

*Emergency Question!*

Thank you all again for your messages!
I'll write to you individually after I get back from my work-meeting, but right now, I have a quick emergency question!
This morning, I found some "red-stains" along with his usual greenish poops on Potter's block!
I'm so worried....what are these stains? Blood? But if so, from where?!
He seems just as usual...and I left him onto a white towel for an hour to see if he'd poop something red, but he only did the usual green-ish stuff....no red-stain on the towel.
I'm attaching here a photo of the red-stain on his block....
Thank you in advance for your advices!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## Jaye

Has he eaten anything different than usual ?

Check his feet and underside, perhaps he scratched himself.

Is he still acting normal otherwise, or has his mood changed ? Has he become sleepy or fluffed out ?

No need to panic....


----------



## Quazar

Have a look inside his mouth, just in case its coming from there.
Also, just a thought, but your brick looks more like a lump of concrete with pieces of stone/granite mixed through it & protruding slightly.
Does he still do his head twisting etc ?
Have a close examination around the top of his beak (cere), around his eyes and also the "elbow" part of his wings.
If hes still doing his head twisting, its possible hes injured himself on the actual roughness of the brick, and these are the most likely areas he may hurt or scrape.
If so, either get him a smoother brick, or wrap it in a cloth so its not as rough.

Apart from that, if its not poops, cant think where its coming from.


----------



## hatopigeon

*Jaye* and *Quazar*:

Thank you so so much for your very helpful advices!!

Gosh, you guys are truly amazing....
Taking both of your advices, I checked Potter's entire body, and found out that it was coming from a scratch on his left foot. 
It looks dry now, and is not bleeding anymore, but you are right Quazar...my "brick" is not a nice-and-smooth regular brick...it is a piece of cement with stones inside, and it is certainly not smooth at all!! 
But since I couldn't find a nice piece of "real" brick to replace it...I took your advice and wrapped it in a cloth so that he won't scrape himself anymore...!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jaye, and Quazar!!!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Poor little thing. Hope he's fine now. Has the wound closed? Maybe there is an ointment that can help speed the healing process? The experts would be better to advise on this...

Glad you've found the cause! Do take care!


----------



## hatopigeon

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Poor little thing. Hope he's fine now. Has the wound closed? Maybe there is an ointment that can help speed the healing process? The experts would be better to advise on this...
> 
> Glad you've found the cause! Do take care!


Thank you, Sassypants! 
Yes, Potter's wound (more like a scratch or scrape?) seems already healed...!
I'll check it again tomorrow morning, and let you all know! 
Many kisses! XOXO 
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Update of Potter*

Sorry I couldn't write sooner...!
Here are some updates of Potter...

His foot-scratch is completely healed, and he seems to be getting used to all of my family!

There are more stray-cats than pigeons around where I live, so I cannot let Potter out in the Sun...even for a minute...!
I tried doing this with Potter in his carrying cage, but I had to keep my eye on Potter every single second because the cats were already 3 meters away, waiting for me to leave the site! 
And of course Potter too sensed that there were cats just waiting to attack him...so he was not comfortable at all, all stressed out and his neck twitching even more! Poor thing!
So....so much for his sun-bathing....
But I found a semi-solution!
I open all the curtains (shoji-paper/wood screen) and one window open with a mosquito-screen on the second floor of my house, and let Potter wander around that room for about 3 hours....
At first, Potter just stayed in one spot, but now he is moving around "exploring" the room.

His neck still twitches, and goes up-side-down sometimes, but he seems allot more in control of his symptoms. He can even "fly"(?) for about...half-a-second (30cm high....if you can call that "flying"...)
I still force-feed him, now once a day because I see he still has some trouble getting all the seeds into his mouth.

His poop looks solid and good! (photo here)

At first, my mom and my sister was reluctant that I had him out and freed around this room, but now Potter has completely captured their hearts too, and my family comes in just to watch Potter wander around the room.

Yesterday, my sister and I put Potter onto my thigh without holding him, giving him all control and freedom to escape from my thigh...but he stayed there for more than 30 minutes!

I am also attaching some photos of him jumping onto my computer table (re:Japanese table are set very low...) when I put on a YouTube video of a pigeon cooing!
He is sooo funny, and so predictable!! 

The more I'm with him, the more I fall in love with him....!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Thanks for the update! The poops look good!

Potter is so pretty and plumpy! You've doing so well with him. He's one lucky, well-loved bird!


----------



## hatopigeon

*Thanks, Sassy!*



Miss-Sassypants said:


> Thanks for the update! The poops look good!
> 
> Potter is so pretty and plumpy! You've doing so well with him. He's one lucky, well-loved bird!



Ahaha! Yeah? You think he's plumpy? Hummm...good! 'Cuz I was worried that he's still too thin! lol (this "worry" runs in the family...!)
Potter might be a lucky guy(or a gal)...but Sassy...he's not as lucky as Kirkky there with an entire bathroom to himself with all the goodies!! ;-)))


----------



## Libis

Sounds like he's coming to love you guys, too!


----------



## Jaye

Good news ! He is slowly gaining more physical ability and the neurological symptoms seem to be subsiding. That is just what you want to see.


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hi, Jaye!*



Jaye said:


> Good news ! He is slowly gaining more physical ability and the neurological symptoms seem to be subsiding. That is just what you want to see.


Yes, I think I no longer need to force-feed him! I watched him yesterday while he was eating, and he seems to be getting more seeds in his beak/mouth!
I stopped force-feeding him yesterday, but he still pooped allot when I controlled his cage this morning, so....I think he can eat alone now. 

Today, I took a short nap for about 30 min while I had Potter out wandering around the room...and then, he came and jumped onto my stomach! 
I was sooooo happy! 

Jaye, on behalf of myself and Potter...thank you for all your great support and advices!
XOXO 
Hato


----------



## Jaye

That is wonderful. So, back to eating on his own, the neurological symptoms have minimized. You say he jumped up onto you while you were napping.

Can he fly now ? Has he been doing these small fly-jumps ? 

Does he land on his feet OK ? This would be the next step of recovering. If he holds his head correctly and begins eating successfully on his own, then he would next start to use his wings. At first it may be clumsy and uncoordinated, but within a few days usually they can be taking small flights and large hops....


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> That is wonderful. So, back to eating on his own, the neurological symptoms have minimized. You say he jumped up onto you while you were napping.
> 
> Can he fly now ? Has he been doing these small fly-jumps ?
> 
> Does he land on his feet OK ? This would be the next step of recovering. If he holds his head correctly and begins eating successfully on his own, then he would next start to use his wings. At first it may be clumsy and uncoordinated, but within a few days usually they can be taking small flights and large hops....


When he "jumped" on me, he sort of used his nails (?) to hold onto my sweatpants and kind of..."climbed" onto me....unfortunately, it was nothing like flying onto me....
And although his eating skills (control) is getting much better, he still cannot fly...but as you said, he is starting to use his wings, and "try" to fly...but he never can land on his feet. I made a "viewing spot" for him near my window, and while I clean his cage, I ususally put him there so that he can view the river, and he tries so hard to fly out...but he always bump into the mosquito screen of the window and end up on the floor up-side-down...
But yes, as you said, he is now "trying" to fly allot more than before, and yes, he is taking lots of large hops (especially when I try to catch him) and small "flights"....

XOXO


----------



## hatopigeon

hatopigeon said:


> When he "jumped" on me, he sort of used his nails (?) to hold onto my sweatpants and kind of..."climbed" onto me....unfortunately, it was nothing like flying onto me....
> And although his eating skills (control) is getting much better, he still cannot fly...but as you said, he is starting to use his wings, and "try" to fly...but he never can land on his feet. I made a "viewing spot" for him near my window, and while I clean his cage, I ususally put him there so that he can view the river, and he tries so hard to fly out...but he always bump into the mosquito screen of the window and end up on the floor up-side-down...
> But yes, as you said, he is now "trying" to fly allot more than before, and yes, he is taking lots of large hops (especially when I try to catch him) and small "flights"....
> 
> XOXO


Oh and...P.S....Potter is getting so "bossy" lately....! He attacks my hand with his beak with all his strength everytime I try to clean his cage....


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Oh and...P.S....Potter is getting so "bossy" lately....! He attacks my hand with his beak with all his strength everytime I try to clean his cage....


That's not a sad face. That means he feels good and he's protecting his territory.


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hummm....I hope that's it! *



Libis said:


> That's not a sad face. That means he feels good and he's protecting his territory.


Hi, Libis!
Well....yeah, I hope it means that he's feeling good, and that he feels comfortable enough to attack me....I mean...that he is no longer "scared" of me...
XOXO


----------



## Jaye

Any Pigeon showing 'attitude' is always good news !


----------



## hatopigeon

*Potter and his slow, but sure recovery*

Hi, Jaye!
Yeap...I suppose Potter's "attitude" is "good news"....LOL
But although he is more aggressive towards me, I also see that he is getting used to his new environment now...

One thing I realized....
Potter is definitely a city-pigeon! 
He prefers to eat bread-crumbs over his "pigeon-seeds" I ordered via internet...
And he likes his food laid on the ground...not in a dish...he always makes a huge mess in his cage, spreading out all the seeds on the ground.

I mainly give him mixed pigeon seeds and pigeon grit (saline soil?) you see on the photo. (sorry, they are written in Japanese!) 
I change his water 3 times a day, and every two days, I give him some fresh green leaves （"Komatsuna"-Japanese mustard spinach).
He can now really eat well all on his own! (photo attached here too!)

His feces-poops are very green and while and solid.

Oh, and today, for the first time...he actually "flew" 1 meter high! Bravo! (...but landed up-side-down again....)

I also attached a photo of him on my thigh....I'm still not very sure if he likes being this close to me or not...but since he doesn't move away...I suppose he doesn't mind all that much! 

P.S.: I couldn't upload anymore photos onto this thread, so I made another album on my profile....


----------



## Jaye

Yes...most definitely when a Bird will actually close their eyes and relax on your lap, they feel quite safe and trust you !


----------



## hatopigeon

**



Jaye said:


> Yes...most definitely when a Bird will actually close their eyes and relax on your lap, they feel quite safe and trust you !


Great to hear that! 
I know have him/her on my shoulder everyday while I'm on my computer...lol


----------



## Jaye

How's Potter...any new developments ???


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye! Hello! How have you been?
Potter is doing great..! (besides his twisting neck...)
He attempts to "fly" allot these days, but still cannot fly at all....
I now have him out free in the room almost all the time except bed time (Potter's bed time is about 8pm...too late?)
He still tries to attack my hand aggressively when I try to get him out of the cage every morning, but once I grab him, he is very quiet and sweet...
He loves wandering around the room, and loves making a big mess with his seeds and water bowl on the tatami-floor!
I added more photos onto my profile album...one with Potter on my shoulder while I work! 
He never voluntarily gets onto my shoulder, but when I put him there, he just stays there for hours, enjoying the view of my computer screen...lol

So I never asked, Jaye...but how many pigeons do you have, and what kind?
Love to see your babies!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

I love the pictures! Potter is so very lucky!

I think the pigeons seeds in Japanese packaging is so interesting! Never seen one like it. It's cool that they have pigeon products in Japan! Wish there were some here...

Keep updating us! We'd love more photos of Potter!


----------



## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> So I never asked, Jaye...but how many pigeons do you have, and what kind?
> Love to see your babies!
> XOXO
> Hato


Hi...cute pics...of the both of you ! 

I will not bore you with the long story of my Pigeon existence. I had a neighborhood flock back in San Francisco for a long time...I guess around 15 or so years altogether...they lived in the lightwell off of my kitchen window. I just started by being a bystander and just observing them living their Feral lives...started with Dad and Mom. Dad was awesome...a redbar, big man in the neighborhood. He lived for at least 11 years which is pretty old for a Feral.
Over time I started helping them out a bit...a little food, and some additional plywood shelters I would set up to keep the rain out of their nests. Then there were other flocks which lived within a block of me...I would feed them to. I would find some injured ones and after taking them (mistakenly) to a Wildcare facility in San Rafael (they just would kill most of the injured Ferals as opposed to rehabilitating them) I started just caring for them myself, taking them to my Parrot vet. I would make every effort I could to release them back into their Feral life, if they were releasable. If not, I would try to find them homes.
OK, this is already a long story...let's get to your question. I 'have' 5...and then some. 3 were males who I rescued and released, but who all then subsequently got ill or injured again (and again) and would keep returning...so I finally figured that the Feral life was not for them. Two (Chroma and Edgar) brought in their Feral sweeties...the third guy (Pasquale) was just an adolescent when I took him in.
Member Charis has been kind enough to temporarily keep 'em in her lofthouse while I am building mine. Before that, they just had the run of my flat...seems everyone minded this except me !  
Pasquale 'hooked up' with a sweetheart while at Charis's so that makes 6. Then apparently Edgar and Mama had a pair of oops babies...so that makes 8.
So I am excited, my loft will be done in a few weeks and then they'll have a nice home.

At the moment I also have a rescue my daughter found...Spartacus....who crashed into a window storefront in downtown Portland....seems to have just been a concussion...poor guy, it might have been his first flight out...he is pretty young. But he will be returning to the Feral life soon !


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Jaye! Hello! How have you been?
> Potter is doing great..! (besides his twisting neck...)
> He attempts to "fly" allot these days, but still cannot fly at all....
> I now have him out free in the room almost all the time except bed time (Potter's bed time is about 8pm...too late?)
> He still tries to attack my hand aggressively when I try to get him out of the cage every morning, but once I grab him, he is very quiet and sweet...
> He loves wandering around the room, and loves making a big mess with his seeds and water bowl on the tatami-floor!
> I added more photos onto my profile album...one with Potter on my shoulder while I work!
> He never voluntarily gets onto my shoulder, but when I put him there, he just stays there for hours, enjoying the view of my computer screen...lol
> 
> So I never asked, Jaye...but how many pigeons do you have, and what kind?
> Love to see your babies!
> XOXO
> Hato


8pm is probably fine. I've seen the sun go down later than that in the summer; (the wild birds just go by light.) 

It's so sweet what good friends you and your bird are getting to be :3


----------



## hatopigeon

*Japanese packaging*



Miss-Sassypants said:


> I love the pictures! Potter is so very lucky!
> 
> I think the pigeons seeds in Japanese packaging is so interesting! Never seen one like it. It's cool that they have pigeon products in Japan! Wish there were some here...
> 
> Keep updating us! We'd love more photos of Potter!



Hi, Sassy!
You think so? 
I think I saw a pigeon perch package written in Japanese also on your Kirkky's photo album...! 
Japanese loves to feed pigeons seeds in shrines and temples and parks...so you can find "Pigeon seeds" in most super markets...!
But the one you see on my photo was ordered online from a Japanese pet-shop site. 
How is your little Kirkky doing?


----------



## hatopigeon

*Wow.....*



Jaye said:


> Hi...cute pics...of the both of you !
> 
> I will not bore you with the long story of my Pigeon existence. I had a neighborhood flock back in San Francisco for a long time...I guess around 15 or so years altogether...they lived in the lightwell off of my kitchen window. I just started by being a bystander and just observing them living their Feral lives...started with Dad and Mom. Dad was awesome...a redbar, big man in the neighborhood. He lived for at least 11 years which is pretty old for a Feral.
> Over time I started helping them out a bit...a little food, and some additional plywood shelters I would set up to keep the rain out of their nests. Then there were other flocks which lived within a block of me...I would feed them to. I would find some injured ones and after taking them (mistakenly) to a Wildcare facility in San Rafael (they just would kill most of the injured Ferals as opposed to rehabilitating them) I started just caring for them myself, taking them to my Parrot vet. I would make every effort I could to release them back into their Feral life, if they were releasable. If not, I would try to find them homes.
> OK, this is already a long story...let's get to your question. I 'have' 5...and then some. 3 were males who I rescued and released, but who all then subsequently got ill or injured again (and again) and would keep returning...so I finally figured that the Feral life was not for them. Two (Chroma and Edgar) brought in their Feral sweeties...the third guy (Pasquale) was just an adolescent when I took him in.
> Member Charis has been kind enough to temporarily keep 'em in her lofthouse while I am building mine. Before that, they just had the run of my flat...seems everyone minded this except me !
> Pasquale 'hooked up' with a sweetheart while at Charis's so that makes 6. Then apparently Edgar and Mama had a pair of oops babies...so that makes 8.
> So I am excited, my loft will be done in a few weeks and then they'll have a nice home.
> 
> At the moment I also have a rescue my daughter found...Spartacus....who crashed into a window storefront in downtown Portland....seems to have just been a concussion...poor guy, it might have been his first flight out...he is pretty young. But he will be returning to the Feral life soon !


Jaye...wow...
You are truly a "Pigeon's Angel"!!!!
Amazing...!
You must be very excited to get back your babies to the newly built loft!!!
I'd LOVE to see your pigeons and your loft, so please please do take some photos when it's all done! 
I just love the way you help them out...but your priority is always to free them back into their own environment...! 
You are amazing, Jaye!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hello, Libis!*



Libis said:


> 8pm is probably fine. I've seen the sun go down later than that in the summer; (the wild birds just go by light.)
> 
> It's so sweet what good friends you and your bird are getting to be :3


Ahaha! 
Well...I'm still not sure if Potter likes me or not...but I'm certainly in love with him!


----------



## Jaye

Have you tried beak-wrestling with him yet ? They usually like that. 

Just gently pinch his beak between your thumb and forefinger and shake it a little. When he protests and tries to pull away, hold onto it for just another second and then release.
He will likely be surprised and indignant the first time you do that. But often, they will come back for more and will actually start pecking your hand so you will do it....


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> Have you tried beak-wrestling with him yet ? They usually like that.
> 
> Just gently pinch his beak between your thumb and forefinger and shake it a little. When he protests and tries to pull away, hold onto it for just another second and then release.
> He will likely be surprised and indignant the first time you do that. But often, they will come back for more and will actually start pecking your hand so you will do it....


OMG...really?! 
Few times I pinched his beak with my thumb and forefinger just because he pecked (attacked?) me pretty hard, so I pinched his beak just so that he'll stop attacking me...But I didn't know they liked it!!
Wow..."beak-wrestling"...ahaha! Sounds great!!
I suppose it's sort of like pulling a dog-toy from a dog's mouth while they try to pull it back and forth...lol 
Sounds FUN! 
I'll definitely try tomorrow!! (it's 2am here now...)
Thanks, Jaye!!!
XOXOXO


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

It's so heartening to see pigeons being loved in Japan compared to other countries who view them as pests (Singapore included!  ) There is hardly any pigeon product here. All KK's pigeon products are shipped over from USA.

The little guy is doing good. Keeps getting fatter every day. He's very heavy now... so much that my arms ache everytime he perches on them. Yet he demands peanuts every single day. Tsk. The Garfield of pigeons.

Update us on the beak wrestling - sounds like fun. Krikky won't have any of it. He doesn't like my hands coming close to his face  I hope Potter is a more willing participant! Have fun! More pics please! Love seeing the photos! hehe...

Have a great weekend!


----------



## hatopigeon

*Kirkky♥♥♥*



Miss-Sassypants said:


> It's so heartening to see pigeons being loved in Japan compared to other countries who view them as pests (Singapore included!  ) There is hardly any pigeon product here. All KK's pigeon products are shipped over from USA.
> 
> The little guy is doing good. Keeps getting fatter every day. He's very heavy now... so much that my arms ache everytime he perches on them. Yet he demands peanuts every single day. Tsk. The Garfield of pigeons.
> 
> Update us on the beak wrestling - sounds like fun. Krikky won't have any of it. He doesn't like my hands coming close to his face  I hope Potter is a more willing participant! Have fun! More pics please! Love seeing the photos! hehe...
> 
> Have a great weekend!


Hi, Sassy!
Sorry, I missed this message!
Ahaha! So Kirkky is getting plumper eh?! ;-)) Awwww...sweet!
(Just keep him away from France or Italy where they LOVE to have plumpy pigeons for dinner...lol)
Potter also LOVES peanuts...he goes crazy when he sees me eat peanuts! 
The beak-wrestling...I'm still not sure if this pissXXs-him off, or if he actually likes it...I cannot tell if he is having "fun" or being "irritated"...he gets very aggressive for sure! 

Love to see more photos of Kirkky too!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## Jaye

Well...regarding the wrestling...does he come looking for it, sometimes ? That's how you can tell....Chroma will start pecking at me until I respond. Or sometimes he would take a stab while I put down food. Things like that...
So, although you may be right and it may actually irritate him to beak wrestle, in some way it also provides attention which he appreciates... and keeps him on his toes, so to speak....


----------



## hatopigeon

*Beak wrestling*



Jaye said:


> Well...regarding the wrestling...does he come looking for it, sometimes ? That's how you can tell....Chroma will start pecking at me until I respond. Or sometimes he would take a stab wile I put down food. Things like that...
> So, although you may be right and it may actually irritate him to beak wrestle, in some way it also provides attention which he appreciates... and keeps him on his toes, so to speak....


Jaye:
Hi there!
Ok, so reading from your message...I think Potter does like it then! ;-))

Although he never really "comes looking for it" 'cuz he never really approaches me on his own will (yet...), when I approach him, he always tries to "stab" me with his beak, or pecks me when I try to clean his cage while he is still in it.
And every time when he does, I pinch his beak back and then he seems to get excited and keeps "asking for more"...;-)
Either I'm getting used to his "pecking", or him getting more gentle with they way he pecks me...I don't know...but this no longer "scares" neither one of us! It is just becoming something "daily" and "regular" in our daily routine! 
;-)

The more I spend time with Potter, the more he fascinates me...I really never thought a pigeon could be this adorable and fun! 
I think my mom is getting attached to him too...she looked after Potter for 4 days while I was away on a trip this past weekend...I got back, and saw Potter's poop in a very green/white plumpy, healthy perfect shape and found out that my mom was giving him chopped fresh green leaves (spinaches, etc) and seeds every day, and was just looking after him perfectly!

Potter has brought in such joy and happiness into our entire family!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Jaye

Nice update...leafy greens are good for all birds....it's good that he likes them ! Most Pigeons I know won't touch 'em....


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> Nice update...leafy greens are good for all birds....it's good that he likes them ! Most Pigeons I know won't touch 'em....


Hi, Jaye!
Oh, really?! Interesting...!
I also read somewhere that pigeons likes to nibble on carrots too...is this true?
Anyway...adding a photo in my album of Potter with my little niece petting him...and making his eye look like an eagle eye! ;-))
Potter likes my niece...they hang around together, just watching TV next to each other....lol


----------



## jondove

Jaye said:


> ...leafy greens are good for all birds....it's good that he likes them ! Most Pigeons I know won't touch 'em....


I heard that some people put a little salt on the greens to trick the pigeons into eating them but I haven't tried that myself. 

(For anyone happening to read this, please remember that the lethal dose of salt for pigeons is 3.5 g/kg of body weight. That's less than 1.5 g even for an adult pigeon!)


----------



## hatopigeon

jondove said:


> I heard that some people put a little salt on the greens to trick the pigeons into eating them but I haven't tried that myself.
> 
> (For anyone happening to read this, please remember that the lethal dose of salt for pigeons is 3.5 g/kg of body weight. That's less than 1.5 g even for an adult pigeon!)


Thank you, Walter for that information!
Potter keeps asking for peanuts (salted) when I have some for myself...so I gave him few today, but I guess I should get some "unsalted" peanuts from now on! (also good for me too...!)
Thank you!
XOXO


----------



## Jaye

Pigeons go nuts over peanuts, but definitely the unsalted is the way to go...also...as a treat, only a few a day 

Hehe...from your update and the pics you posted..I am thinking perhaps Potter has found a new home


----------



## hatopigeon

*Peanuts*



Jaye said:


> Pigeons go nuts over peanuts, but definitely the unsalted is the way to go...also...as a treat, only a few a day
> 
> Hehe...from your update and the pics you posted..I am thinking perhaps Potter has found a new home


Hello, Jaye!
I now know exactly how to attract Potter to come close to me on his own will....PEANUTS! lol
He now comes close to me as soon as I sit in front of my computer (where I usually give him his treat-peanuts), even when I'm here without the peanuts! ...lol
XOXO


----------



## hatopigeon

*Potter's first outdoor explosion since we was rescued*

Hello, everyone!

Today was a beautiful day here in Tokyo...Sunny, pretty warm and beautiful cherry blossom blooming all over the river side park...

Since Potter has been staying indoor ever since he was rescued, and since he can't really fly (so I thought!), I decided to take him outside my house to the court-yard (tiny garden near the river), and let him bathe in the sun for a while...(with my supervision of course)

I took him out slowly on my shoulder with some seeds, and at first, when I put him down onto the ground in the garden, he started to panic and went around and around (the worst I've ever seen!) for about 5 seconds.
Then he calmed down, and started to pick the seeds with his beak..completely in control with his picking abilities. 

So we stayed there for about 10 minutes.....

And it all happened....

A feral pigeon flew over us, and as soon as Potter saw this pigeon, he tried to follow the pigeon and immediately FLEW up so high...high meaning HIGH...up past the 6th floor of the apartment building! 

I almost had a heart-attack, but had no choice but to just watch Potter fly.

At first, he sort of lost his balance flying, but in 3 seconds, he was really flying like a normal pigeon!!!

Then...it happened...

In about 40 seconds after he took off, he started to lose his control and started falling straight down in circles..! (...I'm not sure if I am expressing this scene well...)...he then landed on the other side of the building, so I ran up to him as fast as I can, and saw him walking by the alley as if nothing had happened.
I slowly approached him, speaking in soft-toned voice, and he let me catch him...so I took him into my arms and controlled his body to see if he was wounded. 
Fortunately, he was ok. No wounds, no damage....!

I felt so bad...

I know I may get some scoldings or criticism here today for what I have done, and how ignorant and stupid I was...

In fact, I am typing in with tears right now, not for myself, but for poor Potter.

Maybe he was starting to forget his previous environment, just trying to adjust to his new human-environment, but I made him suffer even more by showing him what he was/is missing in the past few months...

He seems calm and ok now...he is here beside me right now, and is grooming himself.....

I just want what is best for him;what he desires, and have no idea what that would be what-so-ever.

I know that he needs time to heal from his illness, and although it is now my pure pleasure to have him around me....I just feel so egotistic by keeping him indoor all the time. 
He is a bird that was once living outside, free from everything.

Anyway....he is fine...
Thank goodness he didn't fall into the river, or somewhere I couldn't reach him...when I think of that, I cannot stop crying...

Hato


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Oh Hato, what a scary experience for both of you. I can imagine how shocked and upset you must have been, but you should know that many of us who are starting out with pigeons learn some lessons the hard way. The important thing is he wasn't hurt.

I have had a lot of PMV this year in my feral flock here in New York City, but luckily every single pigeon has fully recovered after about two months and they don't even have moments of neuro symptoms that I have seen - and I pretty much watch them all day. You'd almost wouldn't know any of them had PMV, except for the watery droppings which don't seem to go away. I suppose severity might not only be a matter of individual pigeon immunity but also the strain of the virus, and we've been pretty lucky so far. I think in time, Potter may fully recover and be releasable - sometimes it just takes a really long time. It's also possible though, that he'll never get there, and will have to live his life in a supervised environment, but it sounds like you have developed quite a fondness for the little guy and wouldn't mind keeping him. If it comes to that and you're willing to get him a mate, I think he can have quite a satisfying life and you wouldn't feel that he's missing out on a normal pigeon existence. Pigeons are very adaptable and don't need all that much to be happy, but they are very social and companionship is a big part of their lives.

Eva


----------



## jondove

Another problem with salted peanuts is that they are usually roasted too...

I have a 2 1/2 month old pigeon that's smaller that other pigeons at that age and he probably couldn't swallow a peanut. But he adores buckwheat and smaller hemp seeds. He will fly to my hand, from wherever he is roosting, when he sees I have that in my hand. 

Until recently he was raised by someone who kept him in a small box, with no time out of the box, so at first his flying skills were very limited, but he was so eager to get the goodies sooner, that he wouldn't wait for me to get closer and he lost balance trying to get closer to my hand, almost fell off the perch a few times.


----------



## jondove

Just saw your post about Potter flying away and I remembered the first time my older pigeon flew outside. He was 4 months old then, I let him out on the window sill to get some sunshine (I live on the 7th floor) and he would just walk around a bit, then come back inside. But that time another pigeon came to him and they both flew away. It was horrible, I thought he got lost and couldn't come back (I knew he wanted to, I raised him from when he was a baby and this is the only home he knows). 

Fortunately he came back in a couple of hours. Since then, I don't worry so much about letting him fly outside, now he is 6 months old and he flies almost every day, every time he comes back in a few minutes.

But my pigeon wasn't ill, yours has a big problem and wouldn't survive outside if he got lost... Thank God you got him back!


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

Thank goodness Potter is safely back with you! My heart was thumping as I read your post, it's like a horror movie unfolding before my eyes! Phew...

I'm sure you have realized it by now but please be careful. I understand that you want the best for Potter - and that includes his safety! This incident shows that Potter may not be suitable for the outside environment, he can't even fly properly  He may still require your love and care...

On another note, it is really cute that he comes to you knowing you are the peanut provider! After awhile, I am sure he will jump on you regardless you have peanuts or not - simply because he really loves you! Pigeons are the most affectionate adorable cute little beings ever, and their love is so genuine!

Not sure if you have read this blog - it's very inspiring to all Pigeon owners:
http://www.pigeonsaspets.co.uk/
Rev and Richard are the most loving couple ever! Their dedication for Elmo and Georgie (and the countless of other animals they have saved) are truly amazing... Like everyone else in this Pigeon Forum 

Krikky says hello to Potter, and "Wow! What an adventure!"

Hope everything else is going well. Do take care! Hugs!


----------



## Libis

Glad Potter is ok. It sounds like it is going to be some time longer for him to become releasable, if he becomes releasable. Don't feel too bad about this mistake--everyone makes this one eventually. It can be hard to tell when they're ready to be outside. 

Also, it seems like you feel more guilty about keeping him indoors than you need to. From my experience with birds and from the stories you're telling about this little guy he sounds very content in your home. Think about it from his point of view: As a wild bird you start out living outdoors where there is a predator around every corner waiting to gobble you up and you have to search for food every day. Some days there isn't enough food and you go to sleep hungry and cold. Disease spreads through your flock, rendering many of them unable to defend themselves or eat and slowly many of them die. Eventually you fall ill as well. Then, you're lucky enough to be scooped up by a kind person and brought somewhere warm and helped to eat. Slowly you gain back strength in a safe, calm place where food is plenty. You make friends with huge creatures who feed you delicious treats and pet you. 

Anyways, all I'm trying to say is that your home must seem like a wonderful place to a pigeon. A spa almost. This is probably the first place he's ever lived where he didn't have to worry about anything. So don't feel bad if you end up keeping him due to neurological problems. Honestly, with how closely he is bonding with you all, I wouldn't even feel bad keeping him around just because he fits in with the family. 

I agree with others that if you did keep him you would want to eventually get him a mate (and some fake eggs so that you can switch them out and you don't get overrun with birds).


----------



## Libis

Oh, and if you feel like he needs some sunshine, you might try what I do with my doves:

Put him in his cage or in a smaller "travel-size" cage and make sure it is securely shut. Then just set the cage on the patio while you supervise to make sure no cats/predators show up. Set the cage up so that part of it is in shade and part of it is in sun--this way he can move to where it is comfortable. Also, if this is a temporary/travel cage, you might also add a water dish if you guys are going to sit on the patio/porch/balcony for long.

When I bring my doves out they sun and sun and sun, stretching their wings out and flopping down on the ground to soak up as much as they can.


----------



## hatopigeon

*Thank you, Eva!*



nycpigeonlady said:


> Oh Hato, what a scary experience for both of you. I can imagine how shocked and upset you must have been, but you should know that many of us who are starting out with pigeons learn some lessons the hard way. The important thing is he wasn't hurt.
> 
> I have had a lot of PMV this year in my feral flock here in New York City, but luckily every single pigeon has fully recovered after about two months and they don't even have moments of neuro symptoms that I have seen - and I pretty much watch them all day. You'd almost wouldn't know any of them had PMV, except for the watery droppings which don't seem to go away. I suppose severity might not only be a matter of individual pigeon immunity but also the strain of the virus, and we've been pretty lucky so far. I think in time, Potter may fully recover and be releasable - sometimes it just takes a really long time. It's also possible though, that he'll never get there, and will have to live his life in a supervised environment, but it sounds like you have developed quite a fondness for the little guy and wouldn't mind keeping him. If it comes to that and you're willing to get him a mate, I think he can have quite a satisfying life and you wouldn't feel that he's missing out on a normal pigeon existence. Pigeons are very adaptable and don't need all that much to be happy, but they are very social and companionship is a big part of their lives.
> 
> Eva


Hello, Eva!
First of all, thank you so much for your warm and kind words...I actually cried again reading your message and also the messages from others too..! 

As you guessed right (not too hard, eh? ;-)), YES, I am very fond of Potter, and he/she truly has brought in lots of joy in my life here in Tokyo....so yes, of course I am more than willing to keep him the rest of his life, if need to be so.
Getting him/her a mate... I'd first have to find out his/her sex. 

I'm also not 100% sure if Potter's illness is PMV or not, but learning many things from this forum, I am assuming that is what he's got...but I suppose if his symptoms does not go away, I'll have to look for a bird-specialist vet and find out every possible thing about Potter. 

So you are from NYC! 
And you have a pigeon flock there?! WOW...sounds amazing!
I am so glad that your PMV pigeons has all recovered from the virus, and is now ok! Two months recovery time was pretty short...no? 
You must be a real great care-taker! 
I used to live in NYC for about 20 years...lol
I miss feeding the pigeons and the squirrels in Central Park!

XOXO 
Hato


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> As you guessed right (not too hard, eh? ;-)), YES, I am very fond of Potter, and he/she truly has brought in lots of joy in my life here in Tokyo....so yes, of course I am more than willing to keep him the rest of his life, if need to be so.
> Getting him/her a mate... I'd first have to find out his/her sex.


If you get him a female it will be ok either way. Two hens get along very happily, as would a hen and cock. You just don't want two boys.


----------



## hatopigeon

*Thanks, Walter! *



jondove said:


> Just saw your post about Potter flying away and I remembered the first time my older pigeon flew outside. He was 4 months old then, I let him out on the window sill to get some sunshine (I live on the 7th floor) and he would just walk around a bit, then come back inside. But that time another pigeon came to him and they both flew away. It was horrible, I thought he got lost and couldn't come back (I knew he wanted to, I raised him from when he was a baby and this is the only home he knows).
> 
> Fortunately he came back in a couple of hours. Since then, I don't worry so much about letting him fly outside, now he is 6 months old and he flies almost every day, every time he comes back in a few minutes.
> 
> But my pigeon wasn't ill, yours has a big problem and wouldn't survive outside if he got lost... Thank God you got him back!



Walter:
Awwww....how wonderful it must have been to have your little pigeon fly onto your hand when you've got some goodies in your hand! 
I wish my Potter will be able to do that eventually...!

And your story about your young pigeon....oh my gosh...that moment when he took off with another pigeon at that age...and after you have hand raised him...now that must have been a huge shock for you at that time!
Thank goodness he came back! 
And how cool is it that he is only 6 months old now, and flies free yet comes back to you....wow...!

I keep rewinding today's nightmare scene in my head, and although I was completely shocked and scared when he took off, a part of me was sort of happy that particular 40 seconds when he flew so high and so perfectly under control!

Something is also stuck in my mind...
When he flew high up, he at first went towards the river.
I saw that and got scared, and yelled out his name so loud waving my arms towards him.
And from this point, is what is stuck in my mind....
I think (or would like to believe?) Potter saw me waving my arms and yelling his name out because I saw his head go slightly down, and then he made this big "U-turn" back to the court-yard near the building where I was standing....that was when he went out of control and started to fall down in circles...

Do you think he was actually responding to me? 
Or is this just my convenient "human" desire to think so?

Sorry to keep going on with this incident...!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Sassy, Thank you!*



Miss-Sassypants said:


> Thank goodness Potter is safely back with you! My heart was thumping as I read your post, it's like a horror movie unfolding before my eyes! Phew...
> 
> I'm sure you have realized it by now but please be careful. I understand that you want the best for Potter - and that includes his safety! This incident shows that Potter may not be suitable for the outside environment, he can't even fly properly  He may still require your love and care...
> 
> On another note, it is really cute that he comes to you knowing you are the peanut provider! After awhile, I am sure he will jump on you regardless you have peanuts or not - simply because he really loves you! Pigeons are the most affectionate adorable cute little beings ever, and their love is so genuine!
> 
> Not sure if you have read this blog - it's very inspiring to all Pigeon owners:
> http://www.pigeonsaspets.co.uk/
> Rev and Richard are the most loving couple ever! Their dedication for Elmo and Georgie (and the countless of other animals they have saved) are truly amazing... Like everyone else in this Pigeon Forum
> 
> Krikky says hello to Potter, and "Wow! What an adventure!"
> 
> Hope everything else is going well. Do take care! Hugs!


Hi, Sassy!
I knooow...it was a real horror movie unfolding before my eyes too...! 

Anyway...yes, you are absolutely right about being careful...I sure did learn my lesson today...phewwwwwww....

Regarding Elmo and Goergie...OMG, OMG...Of course I know them!!
I mean...I have never met Rev or Richard, but I found Elmo and Goergie's adorable videos on YouTube, and Potter is actually totally and madly in love with Elmo! 
You can see Potter poking my computer screen in one of the photo I have on my album here...you can see Elmo cooing and dancing on the screen! 
I wrote to Rev and Richard (I didn't know their names until now!), and are now connected to them also on Facebook....LOL

I guess hand raised pigeons are allot different than wild feral pigeons...
We (as in me and Potter of course!) watch Elmo and Georgie with their human parents eating together, playing together, doing everything together, and Potter actually "WATCHES" these videos in front of my computer! I wonder what he is thinking watching Elmo and Georgie...lol
(I'll have to upload all the photos of Potter chasing his virtual friend Elmo on the computer screen!)

Please kiss Kirkky from me and Potter!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Thank you Thank you, Liz!!!*



Libis said:


> Oh, and if you feel like he needs some sunshine, you might try what I do with my doves:
> 
> Put him in his cage or in a smaller "travel-size" cage and make sure it is securely shut. Then just set the cage on the patio while you supervise to make sure no cats/predators show up. Set the cage up so that part of it is in shade and part of it is in sun--this way he can move to where it is comfortable. Also, if this is a temporary/travel cage, you might also add a water dish if you guys are going to sit on the patio/porch/balcony for long.
> 
> When I bring my doves out they sun and sun and sun, stretching their wings out and flopping down on the ground to soak up as much as they can.


Liz!
Thank you so so much for the extremely helpful informations and your very warm words...!
As I mentioned on Eva's reply, you guys are just so wonderful...!

I see your point there...about looking at it from his point of view...and what you wrote really made me smile!  Thank you!
(Especially the part where you wrote: "make friends with huge creatures who feed you delicious treats and pet you"..! That was so cute! lol)

To be completely honest, to me, in general, it is so hard to think that so called "fundamental happiness" for wild animals are the same as for us humans, because I always believed that wild animals (not domesticated or hand-raised by humans) will never be really "happy" in a controlled environment, even if he/she's got all the food in the world, and no predators around him/her.

But I think in Potter's case, he will definitely get killed out back on the streets...and not in an instant no-pain way...but by a cat, or by some cold-hearted person, or even by a car...
So I think you are right about Potter...he was ill, weak, and was very frightened, and he needed a warm safe environment where he can recover back to his normal self again!

So I may be just this "passing stage" for him, but I'll still be happy if he can fully recover and go back to his own environment! (though I can bet you that I'd be bawling my eyes out if he does!)
And if not, then so be it...he'll have to learn to live with a huge creature who pets him and feeds him everyday! ;-))

Oh, and thank you also for the "hen x hen" and/or "hen x cock" information! VERY helpful! 

Liz, thanks again for your wonderful kind support!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Liz!
> Thank you so so much for the extremely helpful informations and your very warm words...!
> As I mentioned on Eva's reply, you guys are just so wonderful...!
> 
> I see your point there...about looking at it from his point of view...and what you wrote really made me smile!  Thank you!
> (Especially the part where you wrote: "make friends with huge creatures who feed you delicious treats and pet you"..! That was so cute! lol)
> 
> To be completely honest, to me, in general, it is so hard to think that so called "fundamental happiness" for wild animals are the same as for us humans, because I always believed that wild animals (not domesticated or hand-raised by humans) will never be really "happy" in a controlled environment, even if he/she's got all the food in the world, and no predators around him/her.
> 
> But I think in Potter's case, he will definitely get killed out back on the streets...and not in an instant no-pain way...but by a cat, or by some cold-hearted person, or even by a car...
> So I think you are right about Potter...he was ill, weak, and was very frightened, and he needed a warm safe environment where he can recover back to his normal self again!
> 
> So I may be just this "passing stage" for him, but I'll still be happy if he can fully recover and go back to his own environment! (though I can bet you that I'd be bawling my eyes out if he does!)
> And if not, then so be it...he'll have to learn to live with a huge creature who pets him and feeds him everyday! ;-))
> 
> Oh, and thank you also for the "hen x hen" and/or "hen x cock" information! VERY helpful!
> 
> Liz, thanks again for your wonderful kind support!
> 
> XOXO
> Hato


Glad to be of help! 

It just sounded like you felt very guilty for helping him by caging him for a time, and you need to know that you are doing him a service. He would already be gone from this world without you.


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Sounds to me like Potter will have to get used to the huge creature who will be be feeding and petting him daily, it also sounds like he's already well on his way to doing that.

I do know exactly how you feel when you watch Potter confined though. I know how much you care about him and how sensitive you are to what he may be missing. Just keep reminding yourself that you are doing it for him, because giving a sick or disabled pigeon it's freedom is actually sending it to it's death. I still have to remind myself of that to resist giving in when I watch a sick pigeon wanting to get out before it's fully recovered. For most people birds are such a powerful symbol of freedom, that to take away their possibility to fly – what we think of as their most essential quality - seems almost cruel even when we are trying to do what’s best for them. I know – I personally get claustrophobic when I look at wild birds in cages and whenever I've had one I've always had it just free in the room. Hand-raised birds are another matter of course, though I've never kept the hand raised ones in a cage either. But I think I may be more uncomfortable with the idea than the pigeons themselves, because pigeons actually like to have their own little space where they feel secure and even get protective of it. A recent rescue, after spending three weeks with me and being released, started to come back inside every day to just hang out before flying off in the evening. The first thing he would do would be eat a little, take a drink and then go to his little cardboard house, which was just a cardboard box turned on it's side where he’d spend hours just resting and preening. Well he's now found a wife, and forgotten all about hanging out with me – that’s gratitude for you - just comes to eat from my hand and melt my heart.

As to the PMV diagnosis, my avian vet told me there's a blood test for it, if you want to know definitively. But if it is that, you can't do anything about it anyway except what you are already doing - providing excellent supportive care. He does seem to be in good health otherwise - active, good appetite, good-looking poop, so I don’t really know that a vet would be of any service, but if you decide to keep him it wouldn’t be bad to get a fecal and a basic blood test at some point just to have his baseline, to know what’s clinically normal for him. But only time will tell if his neurological symptoms disappear completely. I know someone whose rescued PMV pigeon had really severe symptoms for six months, but then they gradually subsided. The pigeon's movements are now fully normal, except when he is stressed, which is why they've decided to keep him. 

Yes, my birds have indeed been lucky when it comes to PMV, and it's not because of my spectacular care as you kindly suggest, because even those that I couldn't take in at the time recovered even while being outside all the time with just lots and lots of food and patience -it would take them over an hour to ingest what a healthy bird can in minutes. PMV itself is not a fatal disease at all, but what makes it deadly are its horribly disabling effects - particularly when it strikes in the cold of winter, when starvation bring them down extremely fast. 

I keep calling them “my” flock, but these are just the same ferals whom I’ve known and have been feeding at my window for the last five years. I provide them with food, water, and sticks for their nests so that they don’t have to go near the park where all the hawks hang around. It’s wonderful for me because the pigeons do everything right here where I can watch them all day – they roost, spend all day, and nest all around my windows. And when it’s cold out, some come to warm up inside for a few hours. But anyway, what I wanted to say is that one realizes that when they are provided for and don't need to go out looking for food, water or nesting material, they're just happy to hang around in the sun and flirt and bicker and bathe, and they don’t fly about all that much. Yes they do take off and fly of course, but they do their major flying in response to danger, mostly hawk alerts. So I think your Potter - whichever way things turn out for him - will be quite happy, and if you do end up keeping him, you’ll see that yourself.

Eva


----------



## hatopigeon

Libis said:


> Glad to be of help!
> 
> It just sounded like you felt very guilty for helping him by caging him for a time, and you need to know that you are doing him a service. He would already be gone from this world without you.


Liz:
Hi! Sorry for writing you back this late! (><)

Yeah, you're right, Liz...he would have been already gone by now if he was left outside the way he was....
So yes...I am trying to think positively about this whole rescue thing! ;-))
Liz, thank you so much for being so patient and sweet with me!
I appreciate all your kind words and support!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> Sounds to me like Potter will have to get used to the huge creature who will be be feeding and petting him daily, it also sounds like he's already well on his way to doing that.
> 
> I do know exactly how you feel when you watch Potter confined though. I know how much you care about him and how sensitive you are to what he may be missing. Just keep reminding yourself that you are doing it for him, because giving a sick or disabled pigeon it's freedom is actually sending it to it's death. I still have to remind myself of that to resist giving in when I watch a sick pigeon wanting to get out before it's fully recovered. For most people birds are such a powerful symbol of freedom, that to take away their possibility to fly – what we think of as their most essential quality - seems almost cruel even when we are trying to do what’s best for them. I know – I personally get claustrophobic when I look at wild birds in cages and whenever I've had one I've always had it just free in the room. Hand-raised birds are another matter of course, though I've never kept the hand raised ones in a cage either. But I think I may be more uncomfortable with the idea than the pigeons themselves, because pigeons actually like to have their own little space where they feel secure and even get protective of it. A recent rescue, after spending three weeks with me and being released, started to come back inside every day to just hang out before flying off in the evening. The first thing he would do would be eat a little, take a drink and then go to his little cardboard house, which was just a cardboard box turned on it's side where he’d spend hours just resting and preening. Well he's now found a wife, and forgotten all about hanging out with me – that’s gratitude for you - just comes to eat from my hand and melt my heart.
> 
> As to the PMV diagnosis, my avian vet told me there's a blood test for it, if you want to know definitively. But if it is that, you can't do anything about it anyway except what you are already doing - providing excellent supportive care. He does seem to be in good health otherwise - active, good appetite, good-looking poop, so I don’t really know that a vet would be of any service, but if you decide to keep him it wouldn’t be bad to get a fecal and a basic blood test at some point just to have his baseline, to know what’s clinically normal for him. But only time will tell if his neurological symptoms disappear completely. I know someone whose rescued PMV pigeon had really severe symptoms for six months, but then they gradually subsided. The pigeon's movements are now fully normal, except when he is stressed, which is why they've decided to keep him.
> 
> Yes, my birds have indeed been lucky when it comes to PMV, and it's not because of my spectacular care as you kindly suggest, because even those that I couldn't take in at the time recovered even while being outside all the time with just lots and lots of food and patience -it would take them over an hour to ingest what a healthy bird can in minutes. PMV itself is not a fatal disease at all, but what makes it deadly are its horribly disabling effects - particularly when it strikes in the cold of winter, when starvation bring them down extremely fast.
> 
> I keep calling them “my” flock, but these are just the same ferals whom I’ve known and have been feeding at my window for the last five years. I provide them with food, water, and sticks for their nests so that they don’t have to go near the park where all the hawks hang around. It’s wonderful for me because the pigeons do everything right here where I can watch them all day – they roost, spend all day, and nest all around my windows. And when it’s cold out, some come to warm up inside for a few hours. But anyway, what I wanted to say is that one realizes that when they are provided for and don't need to go out looking for food, water or nesting material, they're just happy to hang around in the sun and flirt and bicker and bathe, and they don’t fly about all that much. Yes they do take off and fly of course, but they do their major flying in response to danger, mostly hawk alerts. So I think your Potter - whichever way things turn out for him - will be quite happy, and if you do end up keeping him, you’ll see that yourself.
> 
> Eva


Eva!

Thank you again for your message....!
Wow..what you wrote really made me nod my head a million times...!

Especially where you wrote;
"For most people birds are such a powerful symbol of freedom, that to take away their possibility to fly – what we think of as their most essential quality - seems almost cruel even when we are trying to do what’s best for them."
....this is the EXACT feeling when I see my poor Potter in the house...thus...the "Oh-let's-try-some-fresh-outdoor air" incident! lol

Anyway....
The flock of pigeons living near your window are SO LUCKY!
Probably the luckiest pigeons in NYC....! (I'm not joking...!)

Most of my friends from NYC thinks that pigeons are pests, and that pigeons only bring in diseases...
So you can imagine what they said when I told them that I've rescued a pigeon...!

It would be wonderful if I could meet you one day upon my return to "The City"! 

Eva, thank you again and again for all you have written...every single words, every single sentences made me nod, and cry too..!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Liz:
> Hi! Sorry for writing you back this late! (><)
> 
> Yeah, you're right, Liz...he would have been already gone by now if he was left outside the way he was....
> So yes...I am trying to think positively about this whole rescue thing! ;-))
> Liz, thank you so much for being so patient and sweet with me!
> I appreciate all your kind words and support!
> XOXO
> Hato


Don't worry about writing back late  I'm in the middle of finals anyway, so no worries. 

You're welcome! I'm just glad to see he's doing so well under your care and that he seems to really like you guys.


----------



## nycpigeonlady

My pigeons are lucky because they live in Inwood - the very northern part of Manhattan which is a mostly Dominican neighborhood, and it seems Dominican people are really fond of birds - many have parrots and I'm definitely not the only one feeding pigeons. Nobody harasses my birds or me (not unreasonably so, anyway) even though I live in a 9 story building. But you are totally right about New Yorkers generally being very hostile to pigeons. It's a huge city of course, so there are quite a few people who keep pigeons too, which is why I occasionally get all sorts of fancy pigeons that join my flock. It's both thrilling to see them because they are so beautiful and diverse, and sad at the same time because you just know that many will not make it in the feral world without help.

Good luck to you, Hato and to your Potter, who has already found suck great luck in meeting you. I would love to meet you one day if you come and visit.

Stay in touch.

Eva


----------



## Jaye

I would want to make this story a sticky...if for the reason that it shows how oftentimes we can be so torn between wanting our Pigeon friends to be safe with us yet also wanting to return them (even partially) to the Feral world they came from.

Hato....certainly do not feel bad...your story or a version thereof has been repeated and told many times before you.  Fortunately...yours ends better than a lot of them. I think when helping a rescue who may not be releasable....we have to, in part, put aside our human preconceptions about what the bird might want. You have surfed around the site for a bit so you probably know that people often want to give their rescues one toe in the world from which they came. While it is a noble thought, and as NYCPL says...it tugs on our hearts...as you discovered, Pigeon reality often does not work that way.

I agree with everyone else...your rescue and care has in NO way "denied" Potter of anything...as he would have been a goner long ago without you.

So, count your blessings and your luck, let out a "whew"....and rest assured that Potter is in a pretty cushy life with you all right now (oh, also...when you rescue your NEXT one....Potter can act as his/her 'big brother' for a while !).


----------



## hatopigeon

Libis said:


> Don't worry about writing back late  I'm in the middle of finals anyway, so no worries.
> 
> You're welcome! I'm just glad to see he's doing so well under your care and that he seems to really like you guys.


Liz:
Middle of your finals?! WOW 
Ok, so YOU don't worry about replying back! 
Good luck on your finals!!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> My pigeons are lucky because they live in Inwood - the very northern part of Manhattan which is a mostly Dominican neighborhood, and it seems Dominican people are really fond of birds - many have parrots and I'm definitely not the only one feeding pigeons. Nobody harasses my birds or me (not unreasonably so, anyway) even though I live in a 9 story building. But you are totally right about New Yorkers generally being very hostile to pigeons. It's a huge city of course, so there are quite a few people who keep pigeons too, which is why I occasionally get all sorts of fancy pigeons that join my flock. It's both thrilling to see them because they are so beautiful and diverse, and sad at the same time because you just know that many will not make it in the feral world without help.
> 
> Good luck to you, Hato and to your Potter, who has already found suck great luck in meeting you. I would love to meet you one day if you come and visit.
> 
> Stay in touch.
> 
> Eva


Eva:
Your neighborhood and neighbors sounds like a great place for birds, but also for people too...! Nice to know that such area exists in Manhattan!
My neighbors while I was in NYC really didn't care much for pigeons...so even as a child, when I used to feed the pigeons in the park, I would get some cold staring from my neighbors...(mostly from old ladies...lol)

I've never seen any fancy pigeons in a feral flock in Manhattan! Wow...that is something to see! 
Anyway, don't be modest, Eva...you are a GREAT caretaker for your flock, and they are absolutely very lucky to have someone like you looking after them in a free-environment! 

XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> I would want to make this story a sticky...if for the reason that it shows how oftentimes we can be so torn between wanting our Pigeon friends to be safe with us yet also wanting to return them (even partially) to the Feral world they came from.
> 
> Hato....certainly do not feel bad...your story or a version thereof has been repeated and told many times before you. Fortunately...yours ends better than a lot of them. I think when helping a rescue who may not be releasable....we have to, in part, put aside our human preconceptions about what the bird might want. You have surfed around the site for a bit so you probably know that people often want to give their rescues one toe in the world from which they came. While it is a noble thought, and as NYCPL says...it tugs on our hearts...as you discovered, Pigeon reality often does not work that way.
> 
> I agree with everyone else...your rescue and care has in NO way "denied" Potter of anything...as he would have been a goner long ago without you.
> 
> So, count your blessings and your luck, let out a "whew"....and rest assured that Potter is in a pretty cushy life with you all right now (oh, also...when you rescue your NEXT one....Potter can act as his/her 'big brother' for a while !).


Jaye:
Thank you for your reply....

When that incident happened, I thought of you and how you'd tell me it was such a stupid thing to do...obviously not because you are mean of course, but because you are one of the most caring person I've met on this site.

So you can imagine how you made me in tears again by writing me such comment...so I thank you for your thoughtfulness.

Yes, I still cannot help but to think that Potter's very happiness is to be with his family and friends in his free environment outside...but since that is no longer (or at least for now) a possibility, he too must adjust to this human-environment he is in right now, and I think for a wild feral pigeon, he is doing great so far...! 

He always comes by my side when I am in his room working on my computer! 
The desks and furniture in a Japanese style rooms are set very low, and so he can easily jump onto my working desk (which he does!) and pecks my hand while I work...! (he knows that if he does that, he'll get some peanuts from me!)

As for Potter's "future" happiness, I am actually thinking of getting him a companion/partner if he needs to be with me the rest of his life.
Since pigeons are almost always in a flock...maybe this could make him happier...? (what do you think?)
I told this to my mother, who said to me "You are crazy!"...but then, I see her search for wounded pigeons all over the city whenever we are out for a walk! 
Do you think it's a good idea?
I looked for "unwanted wounded pigeons" in Japanese sites, but there are none so far...
The only other solution is to "buy" one, but most pigeons on sales are those fancy ones, or a strong looking race-pigeons and I'm not sure if these fancy/race pigeons will be a good companion for Potter...! (Some of them costs about $3000 US dollars...! Amazing!)

Anyway....I'm learning more and more about this incredible, amazing, fantastic creature every single day!

Thank you, Jaye for everything!!!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Hato, I think he'll be thrilled to have a companion, and so will your mom eventually, who also sounds like lovely, caring person.

The pigeon I told you about who used to come inside to hang out until he found a wife is a racing pigeon. I'm not sure at what point exactly he started living among the ferals - I have known him since Jan 2008, but he has a 2007 legband, so he has been with the flock for most of his life now. Anyway, he is about the largest pigeon in the flock at 490gms and his beloved wife is the smallest - probably 250gms.....but that's love. So I think a racing pigeon can be swell companion to Potter just like any other pigeon, but there's no need for you to go out and spend money on a fancy bird, because I'm sure now that you're on the lookout for a pigeon in need of a home, you'll chance upon one soon. I don't know if pigeon racing is big in Japan, (though with $3000 price tags, certainly sounds like there are some avid racing enthusiasts), but you might want to try to find someone with a loft, because they're often only too happy to get rid of a pigeon or a few due to overcrowding - so you might end up saving a another life this way too. 

I so wish you were closer, so that I could ship you one of the many non releasable pigeons I know, who'd be thrilled to find such a loving home.


----------



## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> Hato, I think he'll be thrilled to have a companion, and so will your mom eventually, who also sounds like lovely, caring person.
> 
> The pigeon I told you about who used to come inside to hang out until he found a wife is a racing pigeon. I'm not sure at what point exactly he started living among the ferals - I have known him since Jan 2008, but he has a 2007 legband, so he has been with the flock for most of his life now. Anyway, he is about the largest pigeon in the flock at 490gms and his beloved wife is the smallest - probably 250gms.....but that's love. So I think a racing pigeon can be swell companion to Potter just like any other pigeon, but there's no need for you to go out and spend money on a fancy bird, because I'm sure now that you're on the lookout for a pigeon in need of a home, you'll chance upon one soon. I don't know if pigeon racing is big in Japan, (though with $3000 price tags, certainly sounds like there are some avid racing enthusiasts), but you might want to try to find someone with a loft, because they're often only too happy to get rid of a pigeon or a few due to overcrowding - so you might end up saving a another life this way too.
> 
> I so wish you were closer, so that I could ship you one of the many non releasable pigeons I know, who'd be thrilled to find such a loving home.


Eva!
Awwwww...that is the sweetest thing! I'd LOVE to see this pigeon-couple! 
A big one and a tiny one...how cute!! 

Eva, you were right about finding someone with a loft of pigeons...I've finally found a great vet here in Japan who specialize in racing pigeons, and we have been exchanging emails every single day now for the past few days.
He too said that if I am looking for a pigeon-mate for Potter, he can easily introduce me to some fancy-pigeon/racing pigeon breeders who will be willing to give away some of their unwanted pigeons!

But I thought about it, and since I don't want to keep a healthy pigeon in a small closed room only for the reason to keep Potter's company, I'll still be keeping my eyes open for a poor wounded pigeon around my neighborhood...! 
And if I do find one, I maybe able to rescue it and perhaps keep it along with Potter....but fortunately or unfortunately, I'm still looking for one...

Though this Japanese racing pigeon vet told me that I really shouldn't worry too much about getting a "mate" for Potter, since "companion pigeons" (that's what he called pigeons as pets...) can be very content only with caring human companions...hummm...I hope so! 

Oh, and yes...I've learned that racing pigeons are also very big here in Japan...

Learning many things every day about pigeons...

Thank you so much for your thoughtful message, Eva!
Would really love to meet you one day when I am back in the City! ;-))
XOXO
Hato


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Eva!
> Awwwww...that is the sweetest thing! I'd LOVE to see this pigeon-couple!
> A big one and a tiny one...how cute!!
> 
> Eva, you were right about finding someone with a loft of pigeons...I've finally found a great vet here in Japan who specialize in racing pigeons, and we have been exchanging emails every single day now for the past few days.
> He too said that if I am looking for a pigeon-mate for Potter, he can easily introduce me to some fancy-pigeon/racing pigeon breeders who will be willing to give away some of their unwanted pigeons!
> 
> But I thought about it, and since I don't want to keep a healthy pigeon in a small closed room only for the reason to keep Potter's company, I'll still be keeping my eyes open for a poor wounded pigeon around my neighborhood...!
> And if I do find one, I maybe able to rescue it and perhaps keep it along with Potter....but fortunately or unfortunately, I'm still looking for one...
> 
> Though this Japanese racing pigeon vet told me that I really shouldn't worry too much about getting a "mate" for Potter, since "companion pigeons" (that's what he called pigeons as pets...) can be very content only with caring human companions...hummm...I hope so!
> 
> Oh, and yes...I've learned that racing pigeons are also very big here in Japan...
> 
> Learning many things every day about pigeons...
> 
> Thank you so much for your thoughtful message, Eva!
> Would really love to meet you one day when I am back in the City! ;-))
> XOXO
> Hato


Just do make sure that if you find another sick pigeon that you keep it quarantined away from Potter until it is definitely healthy. Wouldn't want him to catch anything.


----------



## hatopigeon

Libis said:


> Just do make sure that if you find another sick pigeon that you keep it quarantined away from Potter until it is definitely healthy. Wouldn't want him to catch anything.


Hi, Liz!
Yes, if I do find another wounded or sick pigeon, I will definitely keep it away from Potter and have it checked by a vet first, and keep it away from Potter until it is healthy.
You are completely right...I do not want Potter to catch anything from another pigeon! 
As always, thank you so much for your advice!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## Libis

hatopigeon said:


> Hi, Liz!
> Yes, if I do find another wounded or sick pigeon, I will definitely keep it away from Potter and have it checked by a vet first, and keep it away from Potter until it is healthy.
> You are completely right...I do not want Potter to catch anything from another pigeon!
> As always, thank you so much for your advice!
> XOXO
> Hato


It helps when a bird is quarantined from your flock to feed/water your original bird first, and then wash your hands and feed/water/work with the sick bird and then wash your hands again.


----------



## Jaye

Well, Hato....the only reason I understood how you must have felt is that I...like many others here...have also been there and done some version of that...whether intentionally or by accident.

One of 'mine' even got free with a leg cast on, once.....amazingly....she/he survived out there for around a week (!!) before it must have gotten too much to handle and he/she returned...leg cast still intact ! 
A story I wish never to repeat; I was so angry at myslef and beating myself up for it. Also, ultimately a stroke of luck so _huge_ it is still mind-boggling !

It (not allowing your Pigeon patient access to the outside) generally tends to be advice people will ignore or not 'register'; not because they are intentionally blowing it off, but because they are convinced that their bird wouldn't (or is not capable of) flying away or up somewhere.

Your vet is correct and folks here are correct, too. Any companion Pigeon (or bird for that matter) can be quite content among his/her "human Flock" with no need for another of his kind...AND any Pigeon would be quite happy having a Pigeon companion, as well.

As you already have gleaned...given the number of injured/sick/unreleasable Ferals in the world, most with no opportunity for a permanent home....the best thing to do would be to be patient until another comes along or crosses your path.

Who knows how this will happen ? As I said, the next friend may well find YOU (or your Mom)...quite seriously. Or you may hear about a down bird from someone else.....

Given the likelihood of it being/having been PMV....IF all symptoms ever Do vanish...there were/are two forks in the road. 

~ Considering the fact that a bird who has shed the virus CAN be released back to the Feral world....but would have a higher likelihood of having the virus recur; some people decide that having healed the Pigeon, they DO belong back in their Feral world and we cannot really control whether the bird would contract the virus again. But we have given them a second chance at their born-into life.

That is a reasonable position to take, and a reasonable decision to make.

~ The second fork is the decision to keep the Pigeon because this is the only decision which insures (or almost) that your friend will have a long life and should the virus (or any other illness or injury) recur, they will be in a home where it can be dealt with and they can heal from it once again.

This is also a reasonable decision to make.

The thing you don't wanna do is inadvertently (or prematurely) have that choice made _for_ you....which is what can happen when your heartstrings get tugged to the point of thinking "oh, it is such a beautiful day out, and he/she can't fly....sooooo...."

Happens all the time. A mistake Pigeon people will usually make....but once. Welcome to the club .


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hello again! )*



Jaye said:


> Well, Hato....the only reason I understood how you must have felt is that I...like many others here...have also been there and done some version of that...whether intentionally or by accident.
> 
> One of 'mine' even got free with a leg cast on, once.....amazingly....she/he survived out there for around a week (!!) before it must have gotten too much to handle and he/she returned...leg cast still intact !
> A story I wish never to repeat; I was so angry at myslef and beating myself up for it. Also, ultimately a stroke of luck so _huge_ it is still mind-boggling !
> 
> It (not allowing your Pigeon patient access to the outside) generally tends to be advice people will ignore or not 'register'; not because they are intentionally blowing it off, but because they are convinced that their bird wouldn't (or is not capable of) flying away or up somewhere.
> 
> Your vet is correct and folks here are correct, too. Any companion Pigeon (or bird for that matter) can be quite content among his/her "human Flock" with no need for another of his kind...AND any Pigeon would be quite happy having a Pigeon companion, as well.
> 
> As you already have gleaned...given the number of injured/sick/unreleasable Ferals in the world, most with no opportunity for a permanent home....the best thing to do would be to be patient until another comes along or crosses your path.
> 
> Who knows how this will happen ? As I said, the next friend may well find YOU (or your Mom)...quite seriously. Or you may hear about a down bird from someone else.....
> 
> Given the likelihood of it being/having been PMV....IF all symptoms ever Do vanish...there were/are two forks in the road.
> 
> ~ Considering the fact that a bird who has shed the virus CAN be released back to the Feral world....but would have a higher likelihood of having the virus recur; some people decide that having healed the Pigeon, they DO belong back in their Feral world and we cannot really control whether the bird would contract the virus again. But we have given them a second chance at their born-into life.
> 
> That is a reasonable position to take, and a reasonable decision to make.
> 
> ~ The second fork is the decision to keep the Pigeon because this is the only decision which insures (or almost) that your friend will have a long life and should the virus (or any other illness or injury) recur, they will be in a home where it can be dealt with and they can heal from it once again.
> 
> This is also a reasonable decision to make.
> 
> The thing you don't wanna do is inadvertently (or prematurely) have that choice made _for_ you....which is what can happen when your heartstrings get tugged to the point of thinking "oh, it is such a beautiful day out, and he/she can't fly....sooooo...."
> 
> Happens all the time. A mistake Pigeon people will usually make....but once. Welcome to the club .


Jaye:
Sorry it took me this long to reply back to your message!
I really appriciated what you wrote...it truly warmed my heart, and I was very grateful for what you wrote.

I couldn't get back to you earlier (thought I did open this site when I had the time!) due to my mother being in the hospital (she's ok now. ) and due to me coming back to Italy. 

Potter is doing great!
My mother who is now out of the hospital is looking after him, and she writes to me every day telling me what they did together! 
She now spends lots of hours with him watching TV and just hanging out which is cute...! 
She told me that at first, he didn't come near her, but now they sit together in front of the TV, peaking each other (don't ask me...I have no idea what that looks like...my mother "peaking" potter! lol), feeding some peanuts, and just "hanging out" together..

I think this bird really brought lots of happiness in my family's life.

I'm now back in Italy, and making lots of new "feral friends" here on my terrace. (photos in my album)

I'll be back in Tokyo at the end of this months, so I'll let you know more about Potter when I get back!

Thank you again for everything, Jaye!!

XOXO 
Hato


----------



## Jaye

Sounds great...Maggio en Firenze ...che bella ! Nice pics, too....


----------



## kunju

Hi Hato

I just happened to visit this post, and your pigeon's case is very similar to mine. The symptoms of PMV, the initial silence and withdrawal, the pecking, the gradual growth of intimacy, all these have happened with me too. When I looked at your photos, I felt that your Potter is so similar to my Rudy 
I liked what you said about the meaning of illness, in japanese, about the lack of life-force. I have learnt Reiki and use it on my animals regularly. I have often found that the greater the will of the animal, the less help from our side is required.
Hope we can exchange notes on our pigeons regularly, so we know their progress.
I also sometimes feel like giving Rudy a companion. Especially since he is a good biter, biting (or rather pinching hard) on my hands all the time, I feel he does need another pigeon to keep his mind occupied. It is the doubt of PMV that keeps me from searching for another pigeon. 
In one of the posts here, I read that pigeons hate to be held. I know this, but when I see him all alone by himself under a huge net, I feel sorry for him. Though he tries running away, I pick him up every now and then and place him on my chest, where he dozes off. His latest fancy is to climb on to my shoulder, and then balance himself flapping his wings each time I have to bend or turn around


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> Sounds great...Maggio en Firenze ...che bella ! Nice pics, too....


Brava! 
Yes, it's one of the best seasons here right now...!
You know you're more than welcome to visit me!


----------



## hatopigeon

kunju said:


> Hi Hato
> 
> I just happened to visit this post, and your pigeon's case is very similar to mine. The symptoms of PMV, the initial silence and withdrawal, the pecking, the gradual growth of intimacy, all these have happened with me too. When I looked at your photos, I felt that your Potter is so similar to my Rudy
> I liked what you said about the meaning of illness, in japanese, about the lack of life-force. I have learnt Reiki and use it on my animals regularly. I have often found that the greater the will of the animal, the less help from our side is required.
> Hope we can exchange notes on our pigeons regularly, so we know their progress.
> I also sometimes feel like giving Rudy a companion. Especially since he is a good biter, biting (or rather pinching hard) on my hands all the time, I feel he does need another pigeon to keep his mind occupied. It is the doubt of PMV that keeps me from searching for another pigeon.
> In one of the posts here, I read that pigeons hate to be held. I know this, but when I see him all alone by himself under a huge net, I feel sorry for him. Though he tries running away, I pick him up every now and then and place him on my chest, where he dozes off. His latest fancy is to climb on to my shoulder, and then balance himself flapping his wings each time I have to bend or turn around


Hello, Kunju!

Your Rudy sounds like a very lucky guy!!!
I'm so glad to know that there's someone out there with similar situation as mine. 

Of course it will be my pleasure to stay in contact with you, exchanging information about our pigeons, virus, and all the "how-to's". 

I see you are from India...I visited India several times, and LOVED it all the time I've been there!

Please post some of Rudy's photos in your album....I would love to see him!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

*Question*

I just found out from my friend that her host-family here in Italy are constantly trying to get rid of the feral pigeons which comes to their terrace and poops on all the laundry they try to dry outside.

They have bought some kind of "spray" to get rid of these pigeons, and to my horror...even threw away some of the nest these pigeons made on their terrace! (I checked...at least there were no eggs laid yet...hyuuu!)

I'm very worried that if I can't give them the right advice to how not to attract pigeons to their terrace, they will end up killing these pigeons big or small.

I want to give them the right advice to have a pigeon-safe terrace so that they can have a poop-free laundries, and that the pigeons can choose somewhere safer to live.

Does anyone have some good advice/suggestions?

Hato


----------



## BHenderson

Hi hatopigeon,

I just had a quick look though your thread and noticed how much common ground there is between people treating pigeons.

I must say I found Kunju's post very interesting, I am very interested in trying alternative therapies out with pigeons. I am interested in chi-kung, which has some similarities with Reiki. Both methods are sort of channelling life force into the patient(pigeon!). I am also interested in using ayurvedic herbal remedies instead of too much western medicine. Western medicine definitely has its place, it is very good where strong intervention is necessary, but it can be harmful if used for too long. I want to investigate alternative long term remedies to help boost the pigeons natural immunity rather than use things like antibiotics. Anyway it is all a plan for the future and I need to do a lot more reading (and practice of chi kung exercises!!!!) before I can start trying things out.


----------



## hatopigeon

BHenderson said:


> Hi hatopigeon,
> 
> I just had a quick look though your thread and noticed how much common ground there is between people treating pigeons.
> 
> I must say I found Kunju's post very interesting, I am very interested in trying alternative therapies out with pigeons. I am interested in chi-kung, which has some similarities with Reiki. Both methods are sort of channelling life force into the patient(pigeon!). I am also interested in using ayurvedic herbal remedies instead of too much western medicine. Western medicine definitely has its place, it is very good where strong intervention is necessary, but it can be harmful if used for too long. I want to investigate alternative long term remedies to help boost the pigeons natural immunity rather than use things like antibiotics. Anyway it is all a plan for the future and I need to do a lot more reading (and practice of chi kung exercises!!!!) before I can start trying things out.


Hi, BHenderson!
How very interesting...!!
Yes, I know Chi-Kung...it is called "Chi-Koh" (気功）in Japanese.
I myself had several visit to a Chi-Koh doctor (master?) in Tokyo for my back pain...and believe it or not...it really works!

All illness starts from your mind...your heart and your thoughts...
Now, I do not believe that you can get rid of ALL illness/sickness, especially serious ones such as cancer/tumor...unfortunately, no...
But....they say that if one "believes" in the "healing" and "curing" your own body... you can even cure the worst of all...

Animals are amazing...their "will" and strong "power" to live/survive are something we human needs to open our eyes and learn from them.

Anyway...what you are trying to learn/study sounds very interesting!!!
And the thought of using ayurvedic herbal remedies for pigeons, instead of the western, more "chemical" medicine is also interesting...it sure is something to study and to learn more about!

Thank you for reading my thread, and posting a message..! And please let us know how your new "therapy" with Chi-Kung goes with pigeons!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## kunju

Hi BHenderson. Its really nice to hear that your'e interested in trying out alternative medicine and healing techniques, for pigeons.
In my experience, I have seen animals responding well to Homeopathy, Ayurvedic medicines and Reiki. I think it is because their auras are not so clouded and messy like us humans, so it is easy to cleanse. Unlike modern medicine which tends to declare some diseases as 'incurable', all diseases according to ayurveda are curable provided there is enough life force in the patient to undergo treatment.
I have read a book which teaches - I think Tao Chi and Chi Kung (pardon me if what I've written is all wrong). The book is about how to live a hundred years with good health 
Please do tell if you know of Chi Kung practices which can be done for pigeons


----------



## Jaye

hatopigeon said:


> I just found out from my friend that her host-family here in Italy are constantly trying to get rid of the feral pigeons which comes to their terrace and poops on all the laundry they try to dry outside.
> 
> They have bought some kind of "spray" to get rid of these pigeons, and to my horror...even threw away some of the nest these pigeons made on their terrace! (I checked...at least there were no eggs laid yet...hyuuu!)
> 
> I'm very worried that if I can't give them the right advice to how not to attract pigeons to their terrace, they will end up killing these pigeons big or small.
> 
> I want to give them the right advice to have a pigeon-safe terrace so that they can have a poop-free laundries, and that the pigeons can choose somewhere safer to live.
> 
> Does anyone have some good advice/suggestions?
> 
> Hato


Hi, Hato.

That is a sad bit of news although pretty typical of a lot of people in this world.

It isn't very difficult really to keep pigeons away form a balcony without having to resort to evildoings....

Simply buying a plastic owl, for example...then moving it around once a week. There are also motion-sensor sonic devices which emit a tone which birds can hear but humans cannot.

they could also put up some plastic spikes in the areas they usually like to land. Not my favorite method, but they ultimately do no significant harm...


----------



## BHenderson

Hi kunju and Hatopigeon, Its nice that you are both interested in alternative ways of trying to heal pigeons. I was originally shown a video where I saw a demonstration of directed chi. Some people do not believe these videos but I had had some experience with directing energy in the body and I believed what I saw. I then brought a basic chi-kung book and leaned the exercises and practised every day. I quickly learnt how to circulate the energy and focus it in the pit of my stomach. This is a very pleasant thing to do, it makes your stomach muscles jerk about and is accompanied by a pleasant feeling that makes you laugh. Its sort of like just feeling the joy of being alive.
What made me want to apply this to animals is because one day after I had been moved to a new estate where there was plenty of wildlife(where I now live), I woke up early one morning and saw a squirrel just waking up and playing about. This little critter was so excited with the fact he was just alive, he jumped about and played with things that he found and used branches to catapult himself about. He just couldn't contain his joy at just being alive. When I watched him I realised what he was expressing was the pure joy of being completely fit and in tune with nature and alive and full of CHI !!!! I thought to myself, this is what people have lost contact with, we have forgotten how to feel the joy of being full of chi, of being just full of the joy of life and the energy that the excitement brings.
It was not much of a jump to realise that a sick animal is just depleted of chi in a certain part of their body, and I could help by focusing my own chi into the animal in an attempt to stimulate their own chi and to try to unblock and blockage. The only problem with using chi to treat animals is your own chi must be trained and you must be able to focus your chi into your hands, or into a part of the animals body. Recently I have been rather depleted by the trouble I have had trying to keep my little hospital open. I try to do the exercises every day but recently I have become a little slack. I hope to get back to regular practice soon.
As for ayurvedic medicine, I have a useful book that lists western conditions and the western medicine used to treat it, it then also list 4 other techniques for treating it. I know two are homeopathic medicine and English herbal medicine, I think also their is Traditional Chinese medicine and I think the last one is ayurvedic medicine. I was planning to look up the human equivalent of the problem that the pigeon had, and then look it up in the book and try out some of the alternative cures. At the end of the day it comes down to a long process of trial and error, and maybe a little intuition!!!!!


----------



## hatopigeon

*Hi, Jaye!!*



Jaye said:


> Hi, Hato.
> 
> That is a sad bit of news although pretty typical of a lot of people in this world.
> 
> It isn't very difficult really to keep pigeons away form a balcony without having to resort to evildoings....
> 
> Simply buying a plastic owl, for example...then moving it around once a week. There are also motion-sensor sonic devices which emit a tone which birds can hear but humans cannot.
> 
> they could also put up some plastic spikes in the areas they usually like to land. Not my favorite method, but they ultimately do no significant harm...


Jaye! Hello!
Sorry, I missed reading your response!
Yes....it is very sad how people think and treats pigeons...
However, I must say admit and say though that I was perhaps one of these ignorant people myself before...
I mean, I never would treat any animals (including pigeons) badly, but I always thought pigeons were "dirty" birds, and never thought they were anything special....until I found Potter...
The more I read and study about this incredible bird, the more I am fascinated and in love with them...
So now when I have dinner with my friends and they make some nasty comments about pigeons, I tell them that it's all about their ignorance, and that I too was once like them...and starts "lecturing" them about the incredible statistics of pigeons and their behaviors!
Anyway....I now made some "feral friends" also here in Italy, and I must say...they are just so incredibly smart!
The only negative part is...now I cannot dry my clothes on my terrace...! But that's ok...it is all worth it! ))
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

BHenderson said:


> Hi kunju and Hatopigeon, Its nice that you are both interested in alternative ways of trying to heal pigeons. I was originally shown a video where I saw a demonstration of directed chi. Some people do not believe these videos but I had had some experience with directing energy in the body and I believed what I saw. I then brought a basic chi-kung book and leaned the exercises and practised every day. I quickly learnt how to circulate the energy and focus it in the pit of my stomach. This is a very pleasant thing to do, it makes your stomach muscles jerk about and is accompanied by a pleasant feeling that makes you laugh. Its sort of like just feeling the joy of being alive.
> What made me want to apply this to animals is because one day after I had been moved to a new estate where there was plenty of wildlife(where I now live), I woke up early one morning and saw a squirrel just waking up and playing about. This little critter was so excited with the fact he was just alive, he jumped about and played with things that he found and used branches to catapult himself about. He just couldn't contain his joy at just being alive. When I watched him I realised what he was expressing was the pure joy of being completely fit and in tune with nature and alive and full of CHI !!!! I thought to myself, this is what people have lost contact with, we have forgotten how to feel the joy of being full of chi, of being just full of the joy of life and the energy that the excitement brings.
> It was not much of a jump to realise that a sick animal is just depleted of chi in a certain part of their body, and I could help by focusing my own chi into the animal in an attempt to stimulate their own chi and to try to unblock and blockage. The only problem with using chi to treat animals is your own chi must be trained and you must be able to focus your chi into your hands, or into a part of the animals body. Recently I have been rather depleted by the trouble I have had trying to keep my little hospital open. I try to do the exercises every day but recently I have become a little slack. I hope to get back to regular practice soon.
> As for ayurvedic medicine, I have a useful book that lists western conditions and the western medicine used to treat it, it then also list 4 other techniques for treating it. I know two are homeopathic medicine and English herbal medicine, I think also their is Traditional Chinese medicine and I think the last one is ayurvedic medicine. I was planning to look up the human equivalent of the problem that the pigeon had, and then look it up in the book and try out some of the alternative cures. At the end of the day it comes down to a long process of trial and error, and maybe a little intuition!!!!!


Hi, BHenderson!
Wow...what a fascinating story...!
You are absolutely right about us humans, forgetting the power of Chi, and about the animals knowing and having the will to recover with their Chi and their willing to live....these are all very true!

The power of Chi is still very unknown and many scientists do not believe in it...but that is like not believing that we all "live" on this "Earth"...and as long as there are living things on this planet, Chi exists and we just have to learn how to use out Chi in the right way.

Anyway, your practice and belief sounds wonderful...please do keep us posted with your practice...I would love to know how it works with pigeons!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## kunju

BHenderson said:


> Recently I have been rather depleted by the trouble I have had trying to keep my little hospital open. I try to do the exercises every day but recently I have become a little slack. I hope to get back to regular practice soon.


I have had the same issues while doing Reiki. In order to do reiki, we ourselves should have a minimum energy level. On the brighter side, doing reiki for someone else also replenishes our energy reserves to some extent. It is like, by wishing well for others, we do ourselves a lot of good too. 

When I learnt Reiki, I did learn many symbols and healing techniques. In the end, my teacher said one thing that has remained in my mind till now --There is no right and wrong way to heal. Even if you don't draw the symbol correctly, or position your hands properly while healing, it is the intent in the mind that is important..As long as your intent is strong, Reiki will do the healing.
This is the best part of Reiki which I like. No complicated methodology, just pure energy flowing out of your hands! I think even if we are not aware yet of how we can heal animals using alternative medicine, we can work miracles if we work with the best intent!


----------



## BHenderson

I find your words very encouraging Kunju. What you say about trying to heal others helps regenerate our own energy is familiar and also works for qigong. I have noticed that even when I have not been practicing regularly, if I have a sick bird in my hands and want to help that bird, that is when I feel the warm feeling of energy passing between us. Because I am not thinking about how it works, I just want to help the animal, that seems to be the time when it works best.

In the end, strengthening your own qi through regular practice will always make you a stronger healer, so I don't want to become lazy in my practice.

Because of the battle I am having at the moment trying to keep my hospital going, I do not have a lot of time. I hope we get a chance in the future to talk about these methods more. I have a lot of electronic books and videos I could share with you about healing techniques including Reiki.

Hope to speak soon.


----------



## kunju

Thanks BHenderson. Looking forward to seeing the videos and books!


----------



## Jaye

That is interesting stuff, yes.

(This is odd, however...it seems about 1+ week's worth of replies on this thread were deleted....like between 5/15 and yesterday ????)


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## hatopigeon

*After a month away...*

Hi everyone!
Just got back in Tokyo last night...!
I left my Potter in my mother's care, and found him....SOOO shinny, PLUMPED and HUGE!!! He is easily double the size of how I left him a month ago!!!
(My mother has this "talent" to plump-up anything/everything in her care! Her kids=me...too!!! )

And though I think he does recognize me...he's got some REAL "attitude" now...even more so than before! (perhaps I feel it that way because he's much bigger now...) He won't run away from me, but when I try to pet him...he "growls" like a dog and pokes me hard with his beak
Anyway...just a little message to all of you who'd helped me look after Potter...Thank you from the bottom of my heart...!!!
I'll definitely continue to read and write onto this wonderful amazing site!
And I hope to have an occasion to meet some of you wonderful people one day...!!

Thank you, Arigatou, and Grazie Mille!!
Hato


----------



## kunju

Glad to know Potter is keeping healthy! Ya..the 'growl' I can understand, mine does too. 
Perhaps since you were away for a month, he feels it is his house more than it is yours .lol

My Rudy is also doing better, though haven't gained weight. He is doing lot of flying experiments lately, have begun flying in circles instead of flying backwards. His favorite game is 'Angry birds' which he plays with my daughter. Each time he knocks down a pig, we clap for him, and he seems to like the whole game 

Hats off to your mother for making Potter chubby and strong!


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Hi Hato,

Very glad to hear your Potter is doing so well, but yeah, the better they feel, the more bossy they get, so watch out! The way your mom has been spoiling him, Potter might update us himself one day with something like this: "Hato and her mom are doing great, I let them out of their cage for an hour each day". 

Fighting with you shows he considers you his equal (well, maybe his inferior actually, LOL). Sometimes people with lofts who have a disruptively bossy pigeon who just savages all the others, will take that bird out of the loft for a week or two and then put it back in, and that usually resolves the problem at least for a time. So maybe this is how Potter sees things - you have been gone for a while, so he has claimed that territory for himself, and now YOU are at the bottom of the pecking hierarchy. 

I'm sure he does recognize you. Pigeons are renowned for their incredible memory which is the subject of much research. In one study, scientists flashed pictures in front of the pigeons and trained them to peck in a specified spot if they see that same picture later on. They were of course rewarded with food. Amazingly, they managed to remember 800 to 1,200 pictures before their memories started to fill up and they started making mistakes. One of the pigeons remembered 68% of 1,978 images. 
I also read of some recent research by french scientists on pigeons' ability to recognize people.Two women of a similar build, age and skin color would interact with pigeons in a city park. One would feed them, the other one would be hostile to them. The experimenters tried to confuse the pigeons by having the two women swap clothes, but nothing could confuse them, so the scientists conclude that pigeons recognize individual's faces, but they also retain the memory for a very long time.

BTW, your Italian ferals are very cute. I see you are becoming quite the pigeon nut....like the rest of us on here. 

Eva


----------



## Jaye

Oh, yes, he recognizes you alright. He is just MAD that you disappeared for so long, so he is showing you this.

I have seen this behaviour in Ferals quite a bit, usually when I had had to split up a pair in order to help out one...then return the recuperated Pigeon back to his/her Feral life. It is almost as it the bird is browbeating his/her mate, as in _"you left without telling me and I had to tend house all by MYSELF !!!"_

He will ...."forgive" you.... over time....(!!!)


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## hatopigeon

kunju said:


> Glad to know Potter is keeping healthy! Ya..the 'growl' I can understand, mine does too.
> Perhaps since you were away for a month, he feels it is his house more than it is yours .lol
> 
> My Rudy is also doing better, though haven't gained weight. He is doing lot of flying experiments lately, have begun flying in circles instead of flying backwards. His favorite game is 'Angry birds' which he plays with my daughter. Each time he knocks down a pig, we clap for him, and he seems to like the whole game
> 
> Hats off to your mother for making Potter chubby and strong!


Hi, Kunju!!
Wow, I am so happy to hear that your Rudy is now flying with more control!! That is fantastic...!!!
This "Angry birds" play with your daughter sounds sooo cute...!! Love to see a photo of Rudy, really! ))

Potter is getting real "Bossy"...lol
But I adore him anyway....! ))

XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> Hi Hato,
> 
> Very glad to hear your Potter is doing so well, but yeah, the better they feel, the more bossy they get, so watch out! The way your mom has been spoiling him, Potter might update us himself one day with something like this: "Hato and her mom are doing great, I let them out of their cage for an hour each day".
> 
> Fighting with you shows he considers you his equal (well, maybe his inferior actually, LOL). Sometimes people with lofts who have a disruptively bossy pigeon who just savages all the others, will take that bird out of the loft for a week or two and then put it back in, and that usually resolves the problem at least for a time. So maybe this is how Potter sees things - you have been gone for a while, so he has claimed that territory for himself, and now YOU are at the bottom of the pecking hierarchy.
> 
> I'm sure he does recognize you. Pigeons are renowned for their incredible memory which is the subject of much research. In one study, scientists flashed pictures in front of the pigeons and trained them to peck in a specified spot if they see that same picture later on. They were of course rewarded with food. Amazingly, they managed to remember 800 to 1,200 pictures before their memories started to fill up and they started making mistakes. One of the pigeons remembered 68% of 1,978 images.
> I also read of some recent research by french scientists on pigeons' ability to recognize people.Two women of a similar build, age and skin color would interact with pigeons in a city park. One would feed them, the other one would be hostile to them. The experimenters tried to confuse the pigeons by having the two women swap clothes, but nothing could confuse them, so the scientists conclude that pigeons recognize individual's faces, but they also retain the memory for a very long time.
> 
> BTW, your Italian ferals are very cute. I see you are becoming quite the pigeon nut....like the rest of us on here.
> 
> Eva


Hi, Eva!!!
Ahaha...!! I read out your message to my mother (especially the part where you wrote. ""Hato and her mom are doing great, I let them out of their cage for an hour each day". " and we both laughed so much!)
Yes, I think you are totally right....he is VERY comfortable now, and the more he is comfortable with his environment, the more he became "confident", and thus...BOSSY...! lol

But though he "attacks" me all the time...he still choose to come and sit right next to me when I am in front of my computer....lol SWEET!

I read about that article...of the pigeon recognizing people's faces....VERY interesting...!
I have recently read about pigeons recognizing the difference between a "tasteful/good/professional painting" vs. "tasteless/bad/amature" painting....
Humm.....I wonder how they did that test...!!!
Anyway...the more I learn about this amazing creature, the more I'm fascinated...

How are your flock in NYC?! It must be getting hot there too...!!!
XOXO
Hato


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> Oh, yes, he recognizes you alright. He is just MAD that you disappeared for so long, so he is showing you this.
> 
> I have seen this behaviour in Ferals quite a bit, usually when I had had to split up a pair in order to help out one...then return the recuperated Pigeon back to his/her Feral life. It is almost as it the bird is browbeating his/her mate, as in _"you left without telling me and I had to tend house all by MYSELF !!!"_
> 
> He will ...."forgive" you.... over time....(!!!)


Jaye!
Hi there!!!
Are you serious...?! I mean....really...?!
Do you think he was really "mad" at me for leaving him? 
But I guess that could be it...'cuz my cats in Florence gets upset when I leave them...and makes sure that I KNOW that they were not very happy when I come back to them....lol

XOXO
Hato


----------



## Jaye

Hi. No, I was being quite serious....


hatopigeon said:


> I have recently read about pigeons recognizing the difference between a "tasteful/good/professional painting" vs. "tasteless/bad/amature" painting....
> Humm.....I wonder how they did that test...!!!


I would imagine that Pigeons in Italy, and NYC for example, might be better at doing that than Pigeons in some other places !!!


----------



## hatopigeon

Jaye said:


> Hi. No, I was being quite serious....
> 
> I would imagine that Pigeons in Italy, and NYC for example, might be better at doing that than Pigeons in some other places !!!


LMAO!!! ))
Yes, you're right, Jaye..! LOL
Especially the flocks living around the MET Museum, MOMA, or the Uffizzi....lol
In fact....they probably have better "eyes" and "tastes" than me, for sure! 

P.S.
I'll add some new photos of the current BIG PLUMPY Potter onto my album soon...lol

XOXO
Hato


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Jaye said:


> I would imagine that Pigeons in Italy, and NYC for example, might be better at doing that than Pigeons in some other places !!!




Oh, no – I’m an artist and I thought that poop that appeared the other day right in the middle of one of my etchings was a purely random act. Alas! I now know what my pigeons think of what I do. Thank you for that, Hato!

But seriously, I think Jay is right about Potter being mad at you. My first pet pigeon who was hand raised and bonded to me, would viciously attack me every day when I’d come home after leaving him alone all day. The second I’d walk in he would fly onto me to bite me. I’d put him elsewhere, he’d fly back to me to attack and so on numerous times. Otherwise he was the most affectionate pet I’ve ever had (no other animal has wanted to spend every waking minute directly giving or receiving tenderness), and would spend all day on my shoulder preening my ear. He loved to be stroked and squeezed, and it would take a good 10 minutes of petting and talking to get him to calm down and stop attacking me and become loving again. I noticed there were no such problems on the days I was able to be there all day with him, so eventually I started taking him with me to my studio in school and everywhere else I went and that’s how the problem was resolved.

Pigeon are very social and my pigeon had grown up alone - I was the only pigeon in his life, and since they mate for life they take this stuff seriously. He was my first one, so it took me a while to understand this and appreciate what it means to him. I'm really glad Potter had your mom for company while you were gone.


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## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> Oh, no – I’m an artist and I thought that poop that appeared the other day right in the middle of one of my etchings was a purely random act. Alas! I now know what my pigeons think of what I do. Thank you for that, Hato!
> 
> But seriously, I think Jay is right about Potter being mad at you. My first pet pigeon who was hand raised and bonded to me, would viciously attack me every day when I’d come home after leaving him alone all day. The second I’d walk in he would fly onto me to bite me. I’d put him elsewhere, he’d fly back to me to attack and so on numerous times. Otherwise he was the most affectionate pet I’ve ever had (no other animal has wanted to spend every waking minute directly giving or receiving tenderness), and would spend all day on my shoulder preening my ear. He loved to be stroked and squeezed, and it would take a good 10 minutes of petting and talking to get him to calm down and stop attacking me and become loving again. I noticed there were no such problems on the days I was able to be there all day with him, so eventually I started taking him with me to my studio in school and everywhere else I went and that’s how the problem was resolved.
> 
> Pigeon are very social and my pigeon had grown up alone - I was the only pigeon in his life, and since they mate for life they take this stuff seriously. He was my first one, so it took me a while to understand this and appreciate what it means to him. I'm really glad Potter had your mom for company while you were gone.


Eva:
Hi...!!
Let me first tell you how amazing I think you are, Eva...!
I read the thread about those poor pigeons trapped in the church fence, and how you immediately took action and actually went there...and I think that is a very significant and brave act you took.
Though many people here on PT might have done the same if it was happening in their cities, I think to actually take your time and effort to go and try to "do something" needs allot of energy and courage, and you showed us all how "wronged" things should be demonstrated wrong, and how we should all stand strong to our belief...
Thank you on behalf of myself and Potter, for trying to help those poor pigeons . Your courageous act had made me want to be brave and stand for my words too!

So what ever happened to this adorable first pet pigeon of yours?!
He sounds really adorable and sweet!!!

XOXO
Hato


----------



## nycpigeonlady

Thank you Hato – you are very kind, but I only did what anybody on PT would have done. It was so sad and disappointing not to be able to save even one. People do the cruelest things with such astounding casualness. 

As to what happened to my first pet pigeon….that’s another incredibly sad story. As I told you, he (Pilio) was totally stuck to me. He spent his entire time perching onto me, and the only way he’d get any flying exercise was when I’d put him somewhere, because he’d immediately fly back to me. We’d play this game often to get him to fly a bit. So one day I took him out onto the balcony of my apartment (at the time I was living in the Midwest where I was going to grad school). The balcony was on the second floor and closed on the top and the sides, only the front was opened to the outside, so it seemed very sheltered and safe to me. So I sat with him perching on me so that he could get some sun and then I put him on the balcony’s railing so that he could fly back to me. We played this game over and over, but I noticed that every time I perched him onto the railing he would tremble and seem very afraid. Stupidly, even then I didn’t think much of it. Then all of a sudden one of the apartment complex’s maintenance people walked in and out onto the balcony, and Pilio who was on edge anyway, got spooked and flew from the railing down onto the grass below. Within a second, a hawk swooped down onto him. Pilio took off and flew high into the sky with the hawk after him. I ran out in bare feet screaming after them and intuited the correct direction because I ran to the exact spot in the forest where the hawk had landed and was eating him. When the hawk saw me running and shouting toward him he took off with Pilio in his talons and this time just disappeared over the horizon. I walked in a radius of a mile and gathered all of his bloody feathers, which I sew into a little pillow and that is all that I have left of him. 

When I found him as a baby – I thought he was the ugliest thing I’d ever seen - he was skinny and sick and bald and smelled terribly. Over the two years that I had him, he became a huge, gorgeous boy. I don’t think I need to tell how I felt to see my beautiful hand-raised baby eaten alive. I’ll not be able to ever forgive myself for causing his death. Saddest of all, he could sense the danger when he was at the balcony, but I simply ignored the signals he was giving me. I was in deep shock for a long time after that and I kept the balcony door and all windows open for a month for him, although of course I knew he’s never coming back.

Oh well, what can I say.......we all learn from our mistakes, which can sometimes be devastating. This is why when I read your post about taking Potter outside, my heart jumped, as I relived what had happened to Pilio - it can take just an instant and be all over. 
So now I tell everybody not to risk it – it seems like such a common sense thing to me now. But back then I was so woefully unaware, so I completely understand when others are, but it's so much better to learn from the mistakes of others than from your own.


----------



## hatopigeon

nycpigeonlady said:


> Thank you Hato – you are very kind, but I only did what anybody on PT would have done. It was so sad and disappointing not to be able to save even one. People do the cruelest things with such astounding casualness.
> 
> As to what happened to my first pet pigeon….that’s another incredibly sad story. As I told you, he (Pilio) was totally stuck to me. He spent his entire time perching onto me, and the only way he’d get any flying exercise was when I’d put him somewhere, because he’d immediately fly back to me. We’d play this game often to get him to fly a bit. So one day I took him out onto the balcony of my apartment (at the time I was living in the Midwest where I was going to grad school). The balcony was on the second floor and closed on the top and the sides, only the front was opened to the outside, so it seemed very sheltered and safe to me. So I sat with him perching on me so that he could get some sun and then I put him on the balcony’s railing so that he could fly back to me. We played this game over and over, but I noticed that every time I perched him onto the railing he would tremble and seem very afraid. Stupidly, even then I didn’t think much of it. Then all of a sudden one of the apartment complex’s maintenance people walked in and out onto the balcony, and Pilio who was on edge anyway, got spooked and flew from the railing down onto the grass below. Within a second, a hawk swooped down onto him. Pilio took off and flew high into the sky with the hawk after him. I ran out in bare feet screaming after them and intuited the correct direction because I ran to the exact spot in the forest where the hawk had landed and was eating him. When the hawk saw me running and shouting toward him he took off with Pilio in his talons and this time just disappeared over the horizon. I walked in a radius of a mile and gathered all of his bloody feathers, which I sew into a little pillow and that is all that I have left of him.
> 
> When I found him as a baby – I thought he was the ugliest thing I’d ever seen - he was skinny and sick and bald and smelled terribly. Over the two years that I had him, he became a huge, gorgeous boy. I don’t think I need to tell how I felt to see my beautiful hand-raised baby eaten alive. I’ll not be able to ever forgive myself for causing his death. Saddest of all, he could sense the danger when he was at the balcony, but I simply ignored the signals he was giving me. I was in deep shock for a long time after that and I kept the balcony door and all windows open for a month for him, although of course I knew he’s never coming back.
> 
> Oh well, what can I say.......we all learn from our mistakes, which can sometimes be devastating. This is why when I read your post about taking Potter outside, my heart jumped, as I relived what had happened to Pilio - it can take just an instant and be all over.
> So now I tell everybody not to risk it – it seems like such a common sense thing to me now. But back then I was so woefully unaware, so I completely understand when others are, but it's so much better to learn from the mistakes of others than from your own.


Eva;

I cannot believe what had happened to Pilio...

I am in tears just thinking about what he must went through, and what you must went through too....I have no words to describe how sorry I am for you and Pilio...
Eva, I am just so so sorry....just imagining what you went through...my heart is still beating so fast right now...

Animals can sense "fear" that we do not sense at all, and I too had a horrible experience (accident) kiling my beautiful cat 10 years ago, something I will never forgive myself for...so my heart goes to you entirely, Eva...


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## kunju

These guilt feelings that accompany having to lose an animal friend due to our negligence is something very hard to get over, even after many many years. Though such guilt serves no purpose, and we might try to convince ourselves that the animal was destined to die that day anyway, it is just difficult to shake away that lingering grief, and the sinking feeling that we could have done something to prevent the death that day. 
I have made many mistakes of such sort in my life, I might rather call myself a criminal in that sense. Two incidents that stand out in my memory ( and for which I still go on beating myself) are; one when I left my cat who suffered from epilepsy all alone in the garden, and lost him forever. The other - when I left the main door open, and the heavy door banged shut in the wind hitting my little kitten. After that, he became ill and passed away soon. When I write this, I feel angry with myself, and feel like going back in time somehow. Also it is surprising that how much ever I love animals, the carelessness does indicate that there is love lacking. 
I feel there is no way around this guilt, but to accept that I am this imperfect person, and maybe one day I can grow in love to be able to embrace the true worth and respect animals deserve.


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## Jaye

That is very nicely written, Kunju. I think, actually, most people here have probably been through similar tragedies one way or the other. I know I certainly do. It may be something which comes from being in the minority of people who have a connection with other living beings in this existence.


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## almondman

If you don't feel, you can't care, if you don't care, you can't feel. And so it goes, around and around.

People who care about other living beings are both blessed and cursed. They are blessed because there is no greater feeling than nurturing another living creature. Seeing them born, raising them, and watching them flourish. But the same people are cursed by the very love that they feel blessed by. If something happens, they becomes ill or injured, or worse case, dies, it can pull our hearts out. 

But we must be willing to feel the pain if we are ever going to feel the joy. It is always easier said than done, but we must be willing to accept that things are going to happen that we may feel are our fault, or could have been avoided. These are called accidents for a reason. Yes, some things may have been prevented. But many others are just plain bad luck. 

Feel sorrow for your loss, but take joy in the time you had with your bird(s). Learn from any mistakes that might have been made, but know that your birds had a much better life because of you. And keep on doing your best in the future.


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## nycpigeonlady

All these comments are very thoughtful and very true, but I didn't mean to highjack Potter's thread, which is a very happy thread that I always look forward to reading. 

Animals give us many gifts, happiness being perhaps the most obvious one, and wisdom the most lasting, and of course they give us this wonderful sense of community - that we can share our joys and sorrows with others who understand us.


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## hatopigeon

Kunju:
Omg...your experience too sounds very horrific...I am so sorry that you had to go through that horrible experience...I can completely understand the pain you must went through, and even now....
But as Jaye and Almondman said, all of us who have loved and cared for other living things has gone through painful experiences, and tragedies...and that horrible "price" comes along with our will to take in and care for other living creatures...

Jaye: It's true...I think in this world, over all, we are the "minorities"...but I am so blessed and fortunate to be that part of the "minorities"....)

Almondman: What you wrote is SOOO True..and is one of the most beautifully written comment I have ever read... 
Yes, people who can "feel" and "care" for others (animals or human) will always one day have to go through this "pain"...but as you wrote, we must take this consequences if we want to continue to care and love. 
I think though how painful it is every time we "lose" our little friends, or see them hurt, we can only learn from all the mistakes we have made and keep caring...and to know that we can always be wiser and just give better care for our friends in need of help...and it just goes on.
Thank you for your beautiful comment, Almondman...Dave (whoops...just saw your name)!

Eva: No, no, you did not highjack this thread! All of these comments are very important and so helpful! 
Yes, animals does give us many gifts...perhaps even more so than us giving them our care and love...! Happiness and wisdom of course, but Potter also opened up the door for me to actually meet (online) incredibly grand hearted and wonderful people like all of you, and I am so very grateful for this!
By the way...I meant to ask you...so you are an artist in NYC? What kind of art work do you do?! Wow...that is so cool! 
I also went to an art college in NYC (loooong time ago!), but shamefully never had enough talent to persue my career in the art field...! 

XOXO Hato


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## kunju

Just wanted to share a thought - How come people like us are a minority? What goes on in the minds of the 'majority' of people when they see an injured bird? Beats me.

When I took Rudy, a colleague of mine told me - You like complicating your life don't you? I wonder whether this is the reason why many people don't rescue animals- they don't wish to complicate their already complicated lives. In their effort to make life simpler, they have simply shut their hearts to the world. 

For myself, I have observed another fact. I am able to love and care for others only when I am in a stable mood myself. When I feel irritated and tired, I don't feel like loving anyone. When I am full of energy, I am able to care for others and feel the love. 

Maybe this is also one reason we are in a minority. People are too energy zapped these days to be able to stop in the midst of their busy schedule to commune with animals. 

Hope one day we turn into the 'majority' of people of the world!!


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## nycpigeonlady

Your colleague's comment is so typical, Kunju. If you are taking on the care of another creature, it must be because you like complicating your life. It's true, caring for animals does complicate our lives, but what most people don't seem to understand is that it's also an incredible and worthwhile experience. Children complicate our lives too - for some people it's a good reason not to have them, while for others it's not, but no one looks at people with kids and says "taking care of kids!? What's wrong with you? You must be nuts. And that's what irritates me when people look at me as if I'm nuts because I take care of sick pigeons - it's seen as such an illegitimate thing, a sort of eccentric sentimentality, while not giving a damn is seen as totally normal.


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## nycpigeonlady

hatopigeon said:


> By the way...I meant to ask you...so you are an artist in NYC? What kind of art work do you do?! Wow...that is so cool!
> I also went to an art college in NYC (loooong time ago!), but shamefully never had enough talent to persue my career in the art field...!


Oh, wow - which school did you go to?
In reality, "making" it in the art world is not always a matter of talent Hato - circumstances and luck play a large part, as well as having a certain kind of personality (and not necessarily a very admirable one). But as someone who's lived in NYC, I'm sure you know this. Besides, the way the economy is right now, I'll probably have to get a teaching gig soon and do art in whatever time remains. My poor pigeons will then have to get fed twice instead of ten times a day.

This is my website. www.evanikolova.com
Actually pigeons do make an appearance in my work from time to time, but I need to fix the link to my animation for which some my feral friends gracefully posed....well, ate and bickered mostly, actually.


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## kunju

Very true, Eva. Those who don't pay any attention to animals in distress are considered normal. We have around 10 cats at home, and all our neighbors and relatives consider us to be really insane people 
I posted this link in another thread also, I think this video is worth sharing with everyone around the world,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142

It boils down to the fact that we share the world with animals, and they are equal partners. They are not creatures created for our use (or misuse).


----------



## Miss-Sassypants

I teared when I read the story about Pilio. I'm so sorry for your loss, Eva 
I can feel the pain - imagining if it was Krikky - I'll be depressed for years!

Sorry to hear about your cats too, Kunju. I guess it's all part of the learning process. I am sure the animals forgive us for the mistakes, and know these lessons will help other animals in our care in future.

One of the best thing about PT is.. it is the gathering place for like-minded kind-hearted people - which in my opinion is rare in this cruel world. I'm glad to be part of this lovely forum and meeting all of you here!


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## almondman

PT also provides a caring place to unload feelings of sorrow, and even sometimes guilt, at the loss of the birds and other pets that pass. I couldn't imagine trying to explain feelings for a pigeon or dove to my friends and family that don't share the love.


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## nycpigeonlady

Thank you Miss Sassypants. 

It’s always heartbreaking loosing a beloved pet, but when you loose it because of your own stupidity and in such a horrendous way, it stays with you always. I haven’t since allowed myself to get so close to another pigeon, even though I’ve been feeding and taking care of the same flock of pigeons for years now and can’t imagine living without them. But with Pilio, it was a very special relationship and I suppose that deep down I still feel I don’t deserve to have again this level of love and trust. So yes, guilt is a big part of it, and I think for people who can’t understand closeness with a pigeon, feelings of guilt are even harder to comprehend than grief. As Dave says, it’s indeed wonderful to be a part of this compassionate and caring community that we have here even though we live in so many different parts of the world, to share a laugh or a cry about situations that often even our closest friends and family cannot understand.


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## hatopigeon

*Eva!*



nycpigeonlady said:


> Oh, wow - which school did you go to?
> In reality, "making" it in the art world is not always a matter of talent Hato - circumstances and luck play a large part, as well as having a certain kind of personality (and not necessarily a very admirable one). But as someone who's lived in NYC, I'm sure you know this. Besides, the way the economy is right now, I'll probably have to get a teaching gig soon and do art in whatever time remains. My poor pigeons will then have to get fed twice instead of ten times a day.
> 
> This is my website. www.evanikolova.com
> Actually pigeons do make an appearance in my work from time to time, but I need to fix the link to my animation for which some my feral friends gracefully posed....well, ate and bickered mostly, actually.


Eva!!!
I am so so sorry for the late late reply...!
I know this is an horrible excuse, but you know...I meant to write you a long reply, and everyday thought to myself "I'll have more time to sit down and write tomorrow..."....then...time flew by so fast...!! SO sorry!

First of all....let me just say I was sooo impressed and LOVED your art work...Eva, you are an amazing amazing artist...wow...
I was going through your website, and was just so astonished with your art work...very delicate, yet strong, and so beautifully expressed...!

As for me, I went to Cooper Union and SVA...do you know these schools?
Anyway...I was never as talented as you, so I ended up doing something totally different than art...! :-(((

Potter, my pigeon is doing good...! He is not molting that much now, but his tail(?) feathers are all out...and it makes him looks...rounder...!
But he is eating well, and LOVES my nieces and is always so near us when we all get together in "his" room...lol

Eva, I hope to have the chance to meet you one day in person, and talk about art, pigeons (lol) and life in general...! ))

Please have a wonderful summer, and let's definitely stay in touch!!!

Thank you again and again for sharing your wonderful website!!!

XOXO
Hato


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## hatopigeon

Miss-Sassypants said:


> I teared when I read the story about Pilio. I'm so sorry for your loss, Eva
> I can feel the pain - imagining if it was Krikky - I'll be depressed for years!
> 
> Sorry to hear about your cats too, Kunju. I guess it's all part of the learning process. I am sure the animals forgive us for the mistakes, and know these lessons will help other animals in our care in future.
> 
> One of the best thing about PT is.. it is the gathering place for like-minded kind-hearted people - which in my opinion is rare in this cruel world. I'm glad to be part of this lovely forum and meeting all of you here!


Hey, Sassy! How are you and Kirky? Hope you guys are doing good!
I cannot agree more about this world, and how great PT is...I am very honored and happy to have met all of you here...this world is not such a bad place after all...!


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## nycpigeonlady

Hi Hato,
Thank you for your kind words about my work and please - there's absolutely no need to feel bad or apologize about not writing back immediately. 

Of course I know both Cooper Union and SVA, and I'm sure you are plenty talented otherwise you wouldn't have gotten into either one of them, let alone both.

Glad to hear Potter is doing so well. They look really funny when they loose tail feathers, but I've never seen any of mine loose all their tail feathers at once. Only one, but that was due to special circumstances. "The Rascal" - one of my oldest pigeons showed up one day with a huge glue trap stuck on his tail. Just as I was about getting ready to catch him to remove the trap, he flew to the fire escape, lodged the trap between the railing and took off leaving his entire tail behind. I was quite stunned watching this. He took his time maneuvering himself to make sure the trap is solidly lodged between the railings then squeezed himself though them to take off. It didn't work the first time, as the trap slipped between, so he tried exactly the same thing a second time and succeeded! I was totally mind blown that he had the foresight to plan and execute this. He then had absolutely no tail, and I was debating whether I should take him in while his tail grows out, but he was feeding babies so I couldn't keep him. Amazingly, he continued flying just fine, and now has a gorgeous new tail, but probably not for long. He's one of those males who are always showing off and pursuing, so his tail is always tattered from sweeping the ground. LOL, pigeons are so funny and entertaining and just so incredibly smart. 

Enjoy your Potter and have a great summer. 
Hopefully we can meet some day and chat in person.


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