# old bird racing feeding tips?? anyone



## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

does any one have any feeding methods or mixes that works here in california ?? if you have any inputs on this subject...And would like to know how much protein is given light mix , heavy mix under 300 over 300 ....thanks


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

Check out Galaxy lofts article about Al Boccone and how he fed. Not sure if your flying widow cocks or not but if you are check it out... http://www.galaxyloft.com/BACCONE.html
I've never fed like this but I found it very interesting
Tom


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I was wondering the same thing. I'm fine with young birds, but old birds are different. It's cold and the birds are breeding (laying eggs if nothing else). I would like to have a successful OB season this year, and I'm thinking feed has something to do with my crappy luck so far.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I was wondering the same thing. I'm fine with young birds, but old birds are different. It's cold and the birds are breeding (laying eggs if nothing else). I would like to have a successful OB season this year, and I'm thinking feed has something to do with my crappy luck so far.


*Hi BECKY, Sounds like you should be using the natural racing system,as you are breeding and racing at the same time. I will go thru some of my books to find the Natural system and send the info to you.I will also check if the book thatI have is still soldand who may be selling it.*GEORGE


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well maple peas take away some of the protien of other peas so do not use.
Rape, or canola, same seed is harmfull to pigeons so do not use.
If you clock on Friday, on Thursday night use 1/2 tspoon of saflower oil per 1 1/2 cups grain. The saflower oil puts fat reserves to the liver and thats what they need to keep thier speed.
Dave


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

There are no scared rules here..everyone has methods that work for them. 

I just listened to an interview last night on Pigeon Radio with guest Frank McLaughlin and if you check out his webpage he shares his tips and secrets. 


http://www.mclaughlinlofts.com/Home_Page.php


http://www.mclaughlinlofts.com/Tips.html


http://www.mclaughlinlofts.com/Secrets_.html


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

george simon said:


> *Hi BECKY, Sounds like you should be using the natural racing system,as you are breeding and racing at the same time. I will go thru some of my books to find the Natural system and send the info to you.I will also check if the book thatI have is still soldand who may be selling it.*GEORGE


I do fly on Natural. I'm against widowhood. If I were to ever fly it, I'd go with double widowhood or the 'roundabout' system.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well maple peas take away some of the protien of other peas so do not use.
> Rape, or canola, same seed is harmfull to pigeons so do not use.
> If you clock on Friday, on Thursday night use 1/2 tspoon of saflower oil per 1 1/2 cups grain. The saflower oil puts fat reserves to the liver and thats what they need to keep thier speed.
> Dave


How is rapeseed harmful? I give it to my birds occasionally.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

How is rapeseed harmful? I give it to my birds occasionally.
__________________
You are better on the PC than I am, Cornell University did a study I'm not sure how I found it but thats what they said. I'll try to find it but don't hold your breath.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

That's weird  I know there are different types of rapeseed, like black and red. Maybe it is a different kind than we give our birds. Because a lot of pigeon mixes include rapeseed, and suppliers sell it by big bags. I think it's supposed to be high protien/energy.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Some rapeseed info:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-rapeseed.htm
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp

I would like to know which exact type of rapeseed we give pigeons.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

I know rape seed is a big part of canary food so not sure why it would be toxic to pigeons


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I tried to search Cornell for the artical and couldn't find it, its there I just can't seem to put my finger on how to find it.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I couldn't find anything either other than something about canola oil and the history of us eating it and decreasing harmful compounds in it.

Soybeans are also harmful to pigeons unless they are roasted. Maybe this is one of those cases?


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

realtalk72 said:


> does any one have any feeding methods or mixes that works here in california ?? if you have any inputs on this subject...And would like to know how much protein is given light mix , heavy mix under 300 over 300 ....thanks


For a racing mix do not feed more than 12% protein...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Becky,

The problem with old birds is that they don't feel like flying or exercising so they should be forced to fly perhaps by tossing them. So I think it is the training and not the feed method is the problem. Obviously the birds should not be raising babies when they are competing else they will be so tired especially the hen. Now if you are overfeeding your breeders that they end up fat, then obviously their performance will suffer as well.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yeah I let my birds raise a round well before racing starts. We do try to train as often as we can, but with gas prices it can be difficult. So training has always been one thing I've wanted to improve on.
Is there anything special I should take into consideration when feeding them the day(s) right before the race? I know a lot of people have their 'special' mixes they give. In young birds I feed them like normal pretty much. Other than some peanuts for the road  I like giving them safflower too if I have it.
It's been forever since I've raced old birds. I've only participated in one OB season I think, and only raced a couple races if I remember right. That was in '09. Too much money this past year, so I skipped out.

So maybe I need to wait until this coming OB season to judge whether I know what I'm doing or not, LOL. I didn't get to race enough in the last one to tell. I'll get to let out all my OBs on Christmas. Had them locked up for a month to get the newest ones settled in. Then it's off to training to see if I can actually get some in this time.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

From reading and watching videos, I decided to keep my feed simple. I have been working on ways to keep a variety while keeping the pocketbook a little fatter. A few fanciers that are highly successful out there ie, Jos Thone, Frank Tasker (Secrets of Champions III), Elsacker etc use a base mix. I adopted that theory and at current use a base mixture all year around, and change it up for breeding. It would probably work for a good race mix. 
The first thing I would do is stay away from too many peas and or beans if you use them. Frank Tasker in the extra section of Secrets of Champions has a great system. I modeled most of my feeding around him. 
My mixture
50lbs of Excello Breeder no corn $26
50lbs of Corn $8
50lbs of Excello Premium $24
50lbs of wild bird feed(mostly milo a few sunflower seeds and mixed grains) No craked corn. $16 Purina very clean

200 lbs for $75.00 This will get me 1 1/2 months for around 60 birds. 
The Excello feeds are rich in peas but have a variety of grains. The mixture could be lightened up adding barley etc. I do not have a good supply of barley. If I flew young birds, I would lighten up the feed more. My prisoner birds are a little on the heavy side. 
Breeding, I would substitute Excello Breeder for the Premium. I would still cut it down with the lighter grains. Not all my birds are on babies at the same time. I do add safflower to the mix and add Brewers yeast and oil to the feed. 
Hope this helps. Make it simple.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Tasker's base and Race mix
3 parts breeding mix (peas, corn, mixed grains)Looks like the Excello I feed.
3 parts corn
3 parts barley
1 part dari (white milo)
1 part safflower
The corn and barley are energy food. When I was flying a small team they would just circle a few times and want to come down. I got tired of flagging them, so I worked on the food. I added 33% corn and the energy level picked up. My mix now has about 30% corn. Van Elsacker's base is 25% corn, Tasker's is about 25%, Thone's is 25%. A trend here. Hey corn is cheep. This time a year the birds eat it up.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Tasker feeds this mix all the time. He keeps it simple and does not do all the weekly feeding changes. 

Thone's base mix http://www.thone.be/
Thone uses rice and wheat


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm seriously thinking about making life simple this year and trying the green & gold pellets for everything.
Anyone who's curious about racing on the gold pellets... listen to Steve Troyers interview on pigeon radio then look up his results in TX


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

windyflat said:


> I'm seriously thinking about making life simple this year and trying the green & gold pellets for everything.
> Anyone who's curious about racing on the gold pellets... listen to Steve Troyers interview on pigeon radio then look up his results in TX


One thing with the pellets is that they are all eating the same proportions in the mix. With mixed grain they choose what they want to eat. I know Warren used the pellets.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm considering using pellets for breeding and seed for everything else. Makes life easier. My breeders are in their own cages and tend to throw feed all over the place picking out what they like. Some of them leave the wheat and barley looking stuff, others leave popcorn or peas. I've been giving them some layer pellets because I'm running out of pigeon feed...and they hate it  But I guess they'd get used to it if that's all the had to eat. I know my OBs are eating up the pellets. But they have no other choice and aren't quite as spoiled.


Is there a big difference in popcorn and regular corn? My birds prefer popcorn to the larger corn. So that's what I feed them. But I don't know if it's better or worse for them. I know it makes it a little easier since then I can feed all my birds the same thing (quail, doves, fantails, and satinettes are not huge fans of the larger kernels, but can easily eat popcorn).


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

RodSD said:


> Becky,
> 
> The problem with old birds is that they don't feel like flying or exercising so they should be forced to fly perhaps by tossing them. So I think it is the training and not the feed method is the problem. Obviously the birds should not be raising babies when they are competing else they will be so tired especially the hen. Now if you are overfeeding your breeders that they end up fat, then obviously their performance will suffer as well.


Are you kidding, the hen should be raced while on eggs, and if you can time it so the cock will be on 10 day old babies for that special race you would like him to win.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'll race my birds while they are on eggs but not babies. Too much stress on the birds and I'm not about to add more by racing them. Older babies, maybe. If I can find some plastic eggs that can open, I might try putting some crickets in them to make them think the eggs are about to hatch.

That's just me though.


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

this is what I feed everyday on 35 pigeons I mix 3 cups of 17.5% mix 2 cups barley 2 cups recleaned corn and it comes out to...12.9 % protein I try to feed 1oz per bird ...then I add grit 5x a week in food plus I add bird seed in the mix 3 times a week and I also add brewers yeast once a week plus I give them vitaminaral 2x a week and all my birds look healthy loft fly 30 min everyday on good days ...and I also add garlic to there water once a week ..


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You have to mark the eggs and put them under other pairs, I like the cricket thing I'll have to try that. It doesn't take much to feed 10 day old babies the cock bird will not be tired. I have several birds lay at the same time so I can foster the young if I have to.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> You have to mark the eggs and put them under other pairs, I like the cricket thing I'll have to try that. It doesn't take much to feed 10 day old babies the cock bird will not be tired. I have several birds lay at the same time so I can foster the young if I have to.


You are right, 10 day old babies are a little less trouble since they eat less often. They do go through a growth spurt and may need more food at a time though. But either way, keep the hen in mind too. I use natural system so the hens need to be in tip top shape too  I guess it's just one of those things I have to decide then, and not now. If the birds are in good condition and look like they can handle it, then I'd send one. If not, then I'm not really missing out on much since a lot of my old birds seen to lay at different times.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I only send the hen when on eggs after they hatch she is done flying.
Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Crazy Pete said:


> Are you kidding, the hen should be raced while on eggs, and if you can time it so the cock will be on 10 day old babies for that special race you would like him to win.
> Dave


Yeah, I know what you are talking about. It is motivation thing and widowhood techniques. You are spot on.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

WinSpeed-20 HUSKER-HAWKEYE COMBINE 07/02/09-16:59 Weekly UPR Race Report Page 1 Open and Sportsman CategoryName: FTWORTH2 Old Bird Race Flown: 06/27/2009Released: 06:30 Birds: 289 Lofts: 38 Station: FTWORTH062709Weather (Rel) CLEAR, 3 SSE, 81 degrees (Arr) CLEAR, 3 SSE, 81 degrees POS UNIRATE NAME BAND NUMBER CLR X NM ARRIVAL MI TOWIN YPM PT 1 0.35 
Nancy Jackso 6034 AU 06 ENRP BB H 0-07:06:44 596 00.00 1043.477 5 2 0.69 
Rawhide 4443 AU 05 OMA BC C 0-07:24:49 574 55.14 987.115 5 3 1.04 
John Marks 1973 AU 08 DMI BB C 0-08:29:16 591 01:30 956.473 5 4 1.38 
Petracek Lof 424 AU 08 LNC RC C 1-07:12:52 538 01:40 939.027 15 5 1.73
SLACK-Welch  61224 AU 06 NPF BC H 1-07:44:25 555 01:46 936.687 15 6 2.08 
J&S WELDEN 70515 AU 07 NPF BC H 0-10:09:49 608 02:41 901.194 5 7 2.42
Desperado Lo 6953 AU 06 PV BBWF H 0-10:08:18 608 02:46 897.699 5 8 2.77 
SLACK-Welch 5592 AU 05 SCN BB C 3-08:40:43 2 02:42 888.690 10 9 3.11 
Desperado Lo 37667 AU 04 A RC C 2-10:29:33 2 03:07 881.967 15 10 3.46 
John Marks 1732 AU 08 AHPI BB C 0-10:06:04 2 03:07 878.279 5 11 3.81 
R&S FREEMAN 40133 AU 04 NPF BC H 3-10:35:21 605 03:12 877.910 10 12 4.15 
Wild Women 2928 AU 07 CIRP BB H 0-08:42:47 546 02:57 874.944 5 13 4.50 
Big Red Loft 40134 AU 04 NPF BC H 1-11:02:49 607 03:36 861.003 15 14 4.84 
Big Red Loft 60191 AU 06 NPF BBSP H 0-11:09:45 2 03:43 856.215 5 15 5.19 
Greenday 1241 AU 04 OMA BB C 0-10:29:32 586 03:38 854.760 5 16 5.54 
J&S WELDEN 60589 AU 06 NPF BC H 0-11:40:55 2 04:12 836.949 5 17 5.88 
The Outback 1218 AU 07 BEST BB H 0-09:47:23 546 04:01 826.927 5 18 6.23
Petracek Lof 717 AU 06 LNC BB H 2-09:34:25 2 04:02 823.185 15 19 6.57 
Wild Women 2123 AU 06 CIRP GRIZ H 1-10:13:19 2 04:27 808.286 15 20 6.92
Greenday 561 AU 08 OMA BC H 0-11:39:23 2 04:48 808.020 5

That was my best win so far 1 st club 4 th combine and he was on 10 day old babies. I'm the Petracek loft I'm going to try the same thing with 424's son this year.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It might just be because I'm a girl, but I have more faith in hens 
Congrats on your combine success! I'll be very happy when I make it up that far.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

They always say buy what you can afford, I did that and was always on the bottom of the sheet with ( no clockings from list ) so you really have to dig a little deeper if you want to win.
Dave


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Tasker's base and Race mix
> 3 parts breeding mix (peas, corn, mixed grains)Looks like the Excello I feed.
> 3 parts corn
> 3 parts barley
> ...


I forgot the 3 parts depurative mix (light grains). I watched it again and found the error. In our part of the country milo, wheat, barley would make up most of this. I use the wild bird feed 9% protein, which is mostly milo in place of a depurative mix. The two Excello bags have plenty of seeds but too much protein, the corn and wild seed cut it down. I would think this mix comes in around 12% protein. 17% breeder x 14% Premium x 9% wild b seed x 8% corn averages to 12%. Does not have to be rocket science just a good high energy light mixture and feed the right amount. This comes to an average of 18.50 a bag. Not a bad base mix with lots of variety. Add a few peanuts and safflower for the long races, and even barley for the shorter races and you are set. 
I think most mixes come in around 14% protein. I think you would want to lighten this up. They also have a bunch of peas and not a lot of corn. If I had a big mixer or barrel I would mix up the depurative myself. Pretty cheap. Then buy a good breeding mix and go half x half or even 75:25 in the off season.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://pigeonracingpigeons.com/2010/03/28/grains-fuel-and-pigeon-racing-feed-table/

Useful Table and interesting article. It contradicts a bit with other readings, but has some value.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Very good info on this whole page. Has a bunch of videos
http://pigeonracingpigeons.com


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Here is what I am feeding now. If I were racing I would add barley, rice, wheat etc. so it is not so much millet and milo. But if you look at the chart they are very similar in values.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

will feed this until the eggs hatch in February. I am also going to work with Cliff in ABQ on getting the feed right. Our first races our birds were too fat. I think the racing mixes out there are a general mix not keeping in mind the sprints vs the 300s. You look at this mix and the corn, milo, and millet are all high in carbs and low in protein and their is a lot of space between peas. I may just mix this 50 x 50 with a breeding mix and add some growing pellets. Have not like the results of pellets in the past though. Add the rest of the safflower I have and call it good. The excello feeds are mostly peas anyway. Put Brewers yeast on about 3 times a week. That should do it for the protein. I also like the way the sunflower seeds shine the feathers up.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

this is information off Gaby Vandenebelee's web page. He has done away with peas all together in his racing mix. He also add rice. In other words high in carbs and low in protein. 

SYSTEM OF FEEDING
Tell me something about your feeding system.
‘I always thought there were too many pees in the mixtures for racing pigeons. Therefor I have always fed my birds 50% purifying mixture en 50% breeding mixture. I had some ideas about a good mixture for racing pigeons and asked Staf Theeuwes, representative of the Beyers food-firm, if it was not possible for him to produce 500 kg of this mixture for me. This quantity appeared to be far too low, but he asked my if he could put my mixture on the trading-marked. I had no problems with that.'
Can you tell something about the composition of this mixture?
‘Of course, no problem. It is composed from 31% maize, 20% white soudan dari, 20% paddy rice, 2% kadjang itjoe, 1,9% white wheat, 1% barley, 1,6% pealed oats, 1,6% Australian milo, 0,3% turnip-seed, 0,3% linseed and 0,3% bucwait.
My widowers get this mixture from the moment of returning home until the new basketing. The only thing they are given extra once in a while, is a hand full of maize and pealed sunflower piths; the last two days before basketing. I feed them on the ground than, so they will eat a bit more.'


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Dari is what we know as Milo. It is hard to find a mix that does not have 20% peas. http://www.versele-laga.com/Nutri/N...&mkt=11963&fam=227&ani=2341&ran=7518&pro=7548
This is a link to Vera Laga's page. You will see the same ingredients plus peas in this mix. Many of the mixes they will show the break down. Gives and idea.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have seen many fanciers ie Jos Thone, Vandenebelee, Elsaker, etc that are all consistent in that corn leads the ingredients in the race mix. Many take a breeding mix and mix equal amounts of light mix. Some add barley. Barley is one of those things some like and some don't. They all seem to like corn.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Off of Van Elsaker's history page his webpage. 
What does your feeding system look like?

"My breeding pigeons get an ordinary ‘breeding mixture’ but practically always the racers get the same mixture. In the middle eighties, when I frequently visited the Van Laer brothers from Pulle, I noticed their pigeons always looked so darn good. I asked Louis, the best fancier of the four brothers, how he did that. He told me it was because of their feeding mixture, that contains of about 50 % corn, 10 % green pees, 9 % Tasmanian pees and for the rest dari, cardi, barley, peeled oats, sunflower pits and wheat. In 1986 I also started to give this mixture and directly I became “King” of the Antwerpen Union. Of course I always kept on giving this mixture. The racers always get about the same mixture, only for a special race I feed them up a bit with some extra peeled sunflower pits, grind peanuts and candy seed.’’


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.matador-petfood.com/default.asp?ContentId=2154&LanguageId=44
This is what many in Belg use including Vandenheede one of the best. You also see the absence of peas in this diet. 

Finally getting around to researching. My young bird team flown in ABQ did not perform well until the third race. Much of it was do to feed. I am researching to help Cliff for old birds and next season. Hope this helps the rest of you.


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