# Weaning hand fed baby dove



## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

I have just acquired a Fledged Diamond Dove from a breeder that dosn't beleive in force weaning.









My dove was born on June 15 th. He was being hand rasised since his parents abaonded the nest and society finches can't produce crop milk. It is now August 8 th and he hasn't started eating seeds yet because the breeder I got him from dosn't force wean her babies. 

How do I get him to start eating seeds? I have him in with his borther or sister ( whom was born 3 weeks earlier and was also hand raised but is now eating seeds); I'm not sure as to their sexes yet neither has developed (ornge ring around eye yet).







They can both fly but not with any skill yet.

*How do I get this fledgeing to start eating seeds?*
*Do I jsut stop feeding him formula all together and hopes that he starts immitating his older sibling?*

The Breeder told me to continue feeding formula 3 to 4 times a day at a volume of 7cc or 7 ml per feeding.

*If I keep feeding him formula will he ever want to start eating seeds?*

*What should I do to help this little guy or girl to start eating on his or her own; after all his paraents { if they had raised him would have kicked him out on his own weeks ago}?

I need help on the proper method of weaning a hand feed baby.

any advise you could be helpful and greatly apprciated.

Thanks.*


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

"Peck" with your fingers a lot at the seeds and hopefully between that and watching his siblings it will help. What if you got out whatever the favorite treat of the siblings is (millet spray maybe) and feed them that while this one watches--and see if the jealousy gets him going a bit? Maybe you could slowly reduce the feedings so that little one eases into eating on his own?


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

*Had a scare!!!*

This is just the third day that I have had his sibling and him.

I came home from work and was going to give him his second feeding.

I found him on the bottom of the cage unable to stand with almost no movement.

I quickly put him on a heating pad and put a heat lamp over him (I swear he looked dead) I took a syringe and managed to get some pedialyte down him.
I missed up the hand feeding formula the breeder gave me and he only managed to eat 2 cc. within 5 minutes he was walking around and preening himself like nothing happened.

I contacted his breeder and we think it is the stress of the change. I have been feeding him every hour and so far he has eaten at least 10 cc of his baby formula. 

I have even added a few seeds to his last spoonful and he ate 3 (hurray).

I think once I know for sure he is better I think I will gradually keep adding more seeds to his formula until the formula is more seeds then actual formula.
Hopefully between that and watching his 3 week older sibling he will learn that seeds are better (I’m just lucky he likes eating out of a spoon better then out of a syringe).


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

philippus said:


> This is just the third day that I have had his sibling and him.
> 
> I came home from work and was going to give him his second feeding.
> 
> ...


Wow--that would make my heart skip a couple of beats!

If he still seems out of sorts it might be worth it to take him to an avian vet and get him all checked out. 

The parents would be adding seeds as they teach the babies to eat too--this is a good plan.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

*my heart did more then skip a beat.*

Yah my heart skipped several beats.

I feed him or her as much as it would take from a spoon every hour and got up twice to feed at night. 

Today I still have him by the heat lamp and am feeding him every hour if he decides he wants to eat.

I hope he gets the hang of eating seed soon!!! 

Then I can be sure he is getting all he wants without worring about crop slow down or fedding to much formula.

I think what happened is that the breeder that I got him from was giving him only 3 feedings a day at 7cc per feeding. she said she was really whatering it down to the point that is was like thin gravy. I don't think he was getting enough to eat. 

She said she was doing this in hopes that he would start eating seed.

I got him Sunday at noon He had only had one fedding I tried feeding him at one when I got home but he wouldn't eat I tried again at three and he would only eat a little.

That first day he would only eat a very tiny amount if I could get him to eat at all.

Monday came and he took all 3 feedings of 7 cc's.

you read what tuesday was like.

Today he seems to be doing fine lets keep our fingers crossed.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

What if you keep mixing in the seeds until it's got quite a bit of seed "slurry" eventually? That's how the parents would be switching him over--with wet seeds from their mouths. 

In many ways, it was very unethical and lazy of your breeder not to have weaned him before. It is not healthy for a bird this old not to be weaned.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

I have heard from other breeders that she loves hand feeding her babies. I think that she only really breeds her birds so that she can have baby chicks to hand raise.

I only really wanted the older sibling from the previous clutch; but this little guy was so cute and I was willing to wean him. 

She told me to keep the two keep the two separated because she didn’t want the littlest to lose his attachment to people. 

I however felt that keeping the two together would only help in the weaning process; after all big brother (maybe) is only two weeks older and was weaned 3 weeks ago.

I have been gradually adding seeds to the formula and letting it get thicker; however, even though he will eat out of a spoon he won’t eat unless it is held at his height.

I’m in the process of gradually lowering it to try to encourage him to peck at things on the ground; which currently he shows no interest in doing. 

He will peck at anything his level but he won’t bend down a peck.

I really think she did this little guy a disserve us by babying him to long.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

philippus said:


> I have heard from other breeders that she loves hand feeding her babies. I think that she only really breeds her birds so that she can have baby chicks to hand raise.
> 
> I only really wanted the older sibling from the previous clutch; but this little guy was so cute and I was willing to wean him.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised we haven't heard anything much from other members on this. If you have any more trouble, you might also contact Helen at this website: http://www.diamonddove.info/
her email is: [email protected]
She is much more experienced than I am with babies. 

What happens if you just put seeds in the spoon at his level? So long as he's getting closer to eating grown up food we're making progress.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Libis said:


> What if you keep mixing in the seeds until it's got quite a bit of seed "slurry" eventually? That's how the parents would be switching him over--with wet seeds from their mouths.
> 
> In many ways, it was very unethical and lazy of your breeder not to have weaned him before. It is not healthy for a bird this old not to be weaned.


I agree, they think it makes them bond better. It's a selfish act. The birds bond just fine if you just spend time with them after they are 5 days old and just pick them up and hold them for a minute or two periodically. Ofcourse time can be increased as age increases.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

he will peck once thinking it is his formula and then have nothing to do with it. 

he is very picky if the formula is to thick he won't touch it.

he will pick around the seeds if I add them to a slightly thick formula sometimes he even accedently eats one but usually he tries to eat around hem.

He doesn't even go around pecking at the ground and he ignores his 2 to 3 week older brother in the cage with him.

He is only interested in me letting him perch on my finger eating fromula or sleepping. 

If I'm in the room he just walks around watching me. If I leave the room he spends the hole time sleeping until I return.

As far as I'm concerened I really believe that he thinks he is the only one living in that cage. He has no interest in his older brother and what he is doing.

I keep hopeing that he will start immitating his older brothers pecking at the ground but he thinks food comes from eye level.

I even try to imitate bird pecking. but he rather climb up my arm.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

*This explains A lot She was Starving Him.*

Well that explains a lot.

I only got him on Sunday. I feed him the exact same brand of formula as his breeder does at the doses she told me to 3 to 4 times a day 7 ml or 7 cc like a thin gravy. This should encourage him to eat seeds. I did that 3 times on Sunday ( because she heed him once), and 4 times on Monday. Tuesday he looked like he was dead and wouldn't move but was breathing I got pedialyte into him and put him under a heat lamp. I missed up some formula and let him eat as much as he wanted (he has been eating out of a spoon) and he revived in 10 minutes but had problem standing up and balancing. I then started feeding him every half hour as much as he would take for the nest 3 hours and then feed him once every hour and twice during the night. 

I have continued this ever since and he has seemed fine. 

I got a scale and it turns out that he was starving (literally), I weighed him and he only weighs 16.5 g his older sibling which I bought too and is 3 weeks older weighs 27 g.

I am going to keep feeding every hour as much as he will take but is there anything else I should be doing to get his weight back up?

At this point I am not worried about getting him weaned just getting him better.

How much weight should he put on a day?
How much should I feed him?


I just feel so bad for the little guy I had hand raised other birds but this is my first Diamond dove.
I really think this breeder was irresponsible. 



Your help has been a God send.

Thank you so very much

Amy



-----Original Message-----
From: Helen White <[email protected]>
To: Philippus2233445 <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: need help weaning a diamond dove!!!!


Hello Amy, 


My method for babies that are reluctant to start pecking seed has been to withhold formula for one or two days. I think the best way to do this is to get a postage gram scale (there are some at amazon.com for $25 or less and you can also find them in office supply stores). Then you should track the doves weight on a daily basis until this problem is resolved. First take the bird's current weight at the same time every evening for a few days to track natural variation. Then with hold formula for one or possibly two days but leave seed on the cage floor. Don't let the bird loose more than 2 grams or so before resuming formula if necessary. Then wait a few more days and try again. I would keep this younger bird together with the older bird because like you say older birds (and tapping fingers) are good instructions for getting a dove to peck seed.


Please write back and tell me the dove's current weight once you have a scale. Adults normally weigh between 30 and 40 grams. After only one months growth a dove may weigh 28 grams or more


Hope this is helpful,


Sincerely,


Helen.


On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:12 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

I bought two diamond doves from a breeder that was hand raising both. The one is weaned and 3 weeks older. His younger sibling is not.

The younger of the two (the won that needs weaning) was born June 15, 2011. This particular breeder loves hand raising baby birds, that is the only reason she raises them. Once they are weaned she doesn't want them anymore. 

The little one is eating formula out of a spoon he likes it thin if I make it thick he will refuse to eat it. I have tried adding seeds to the formula and he will still eat the formula but picks around the seeds. On rare occasions he accidentally eats one but this is an accident.

I have put the little guy in the cage with his elder brother in hopes that this would encourage him to start pecking around on the ground for seeds. However, the little guy completely ignores him if I'm not in the room he sleeps(I have a video came on the cage), if I am in the room he paces the cage wanting to be with me.

I feed him his formula and keep trying to make it thicker and adding more seeds, in hopes that he will start eating some.

I also have seeds on the tray and peck at them with my finger in hopes that he will start pecking at them too.

so far he shows no interest in seeds or pecking on the ground.

I need help in getting this adolescent youngster to eat seeds.

how do you normally wean a hand fed baby bird?
How would you go about weaning a diamond dove that is almost 2 months old?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, 

Amy 



-- 
Helen White
Diamond Dove Home Page


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

philippus said:


> Well that explains a lot.
> 
> I only got him on Sunday. I feed him the exact same brand of formula as his breeder does at the doses she told me to 3 to 4 times a day 7 ml or 7 cc like a thin gravy. This should encourage him to eat seeds. I did that 3 times on Sunday ( because she heed him once), and 4 times on Monday. Tuesday he looked like he was dead and wouldn't move but was breathing I got pedialyte into him and put him under a heat lamp. I missed up some formula and let him eat as much as he wanted (he has been eating out of a spoon) and he revived in 10 minutes but had problem standing up and balancing. I then started feeding him every half hour as much as he would take for the nest 3 hours and then feed him once every hour and twice during the night.
> 
> ...


Be careful with it being every hour--I've heard that if you feed them before the crop empties it can be risky. It might be worth the risk in this case, though, if the thin stuff is all you can get into him. 

What brand of baby food is this?

I'm not sure about the weight. If you want I'll try to weigh my 1 year old diamonds (if I can find the postal scale) for comparison. I think they might be bigger than normal, though. They seem a lot bigger than my new diamond doves that are the same color as your little guy--but the new birds are of unknown age since they're recent unbanded rescues. 

I've never handraised a diamond dove--has anybody out there done it before? I don't want to accidentally give Amy the wrong info.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

Helen Told me that he should weigh 28 g. An adult should weigh between 30 to 40 g.

I using Kaytee exact because that is what is breeder was using Tommorow I am going to start spaceing feedings out to hour and a half.

I make his formula as thick as he will take it if he dosn't like the consistency I add a little more water to it.

he feeds from a little tea spoon I let him eat until he dosn't want to eat anymore then I stop.

Unfrotunatly the only avian vet nerby is 2 hours away and the office is closed until Tuesday. 

I'm afaird of driveing that far the stress might kill him and I wouldn't be able to feed him. This formula is supposed to be made fresh each time and how would I get hot enough water so I could make it?

I'll worry about that when I can call the vet.

Until the I'll keep monitoring his weight and hope that it is going up.


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

I called emergency # for my avian vet. She told me to come and she would open up to check my little guy out.

I was both relieved and apprehensive.



He is only my third bird and the first one I had to hand feed. Everything I did I learned from you guys and gals at Pigeon Talk; and for that I'm eternally grate full.



I told her about Tuesday episode and she was amazed he survived and my quick thinking in coming up with a homemade version of pedilyt solution. She said it was a miracle he pulled thru with how under weight he is.

She did a crop swab and a Kloakeal swab and these showed no signs of bad bacteria infections. She told me to keep him under a heat lamp and to try to keep him from moving as much as possible in order that he can conserve energy.

She said to leave some seed scattered ground around him in case he gets the energy to peck at it; but at this point she doesn't think that he has the ability or strength to do that yet.



I am to try feeding him every hour and a half for today and try to expand to every two hours tomorrow. If he shows sings of deterioration to go back to the old schedule.



But since he seems active and is eating she said that was half the battle.



I am to weigh him the same time twice a day and call Monday and tell her what he weighs. She said that he should have gained some weight buy then, and if not then there is something wrong internally were he can't properly digest what he is eating. If this is the case then his chances of recovery aren't good.



I am praying really hard for him to gain weight. He is fighting so hard to live that at this point I will be crushed if he looses the battle now.

for something to 40% underweight and rally the way he did when he was on the verge of death I just don't now If I can bear for him to give up at this late date.



So I want to give both you Elizabeth, and Helen my deepest thanks for all your help.



Thanks so much 



Amy


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

philippus said:


> He is only my third bird and the first one I had to hand feed.


You know, I keep forgetting that you haven't had birds all that long. You must have a natural talent with these guys--being able to keep this one alive while he's only your third. Just gotta say that you are really doing a fantastic job and keep your spirits up, k?


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## philippus (Mar 31, 2011)

Question passed away at 12:23 am eastern time. He fought to the end. He died while I was feeding him. He woke up while I missing his midnight snack. He was eating fine walked away a few steps convulsed and then feel over dead.

Nothing I did was able to bring him out of it this time. He was 15 g when he died (he had gained back a 2 grams).

He was a fighter to the end I thought he was going to Die eight times over the past week and 2 days, but he always fought through.

This time it was just too much!!

I'm glad that he doesn’t have to fight any more; but I wish he could have better the odds that were stacked so high against him.

I will miss you terribly Question!!

Go with God and rest in peace. You don't have to fight anymore. I know you’re in a better place.


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