# Keeping nests warm.



## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm planning on using cat litter in my nest bowls this winter to try and keep the nests warm and dry. 
Should I put the litter in the bowls and let them build their nests on top of the litter or wait til they build their nest then remove it and put the litter underneath? The reason I ask is because I'm worried about them eating the litter. 
I've got oyster sell and Bay-mor pigeon grit in front of them and they're going nuts over it. Will it hurt them if they eat the cat litter? (it's the unscented clumping cat litter)


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Personally, Roxtar, I would discourage kitty litter. I know Squeaks will sometimes peck at some but I discourage and prevent if at all possible. 

Other members who are experienced with "nesters" will be along with their comments.

Shi


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Personally, I use pine needles. It's easy for the pigeons to handle and won't hurt the eggs/young. Plus it holds in heat unlike sticks/twigs, etc. I guess something you could do, is let them build their nest, then replace it with some kind of wood shavings. Then you could easily clean out the bowl/box each day to keep it dry and clean. I've never done that but...it seems like it would work.

I think the liter might hurt the pidgies though, so I wouldn't use it 
The adults may pick at it thinking it's grit or food, and the squeakers have a tendency to pick at just about anything...


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I would order some nesting felts to put in the bottom of the nest bowl. I also remember a page that fills the bottom underneath of the nest bowl with saw dust and seals it with tape. I will try and find the article. You can cut the nesting felts to fit the disposible nest bowls or bowls smaller than the Belgium type. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I found the page

http://www.racingbirds.com/acces2.html


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

This is the page I found the bowls issue on. They also have some good tips in other areas for all of you. 

http://www.racingbirds.com/acess1.html


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sorry to be a pain, but someone once mentioned "toxic" felts...

Comments, member nesters???

Shi


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Na, when they break down they arent good... so replace between clutches... but just give pine needles and pigeons are very good parents.... they will keep them warm.... or you can use ribbon or cloth torn up... you can also use newspaper... that keeps heat pretty well...


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi Guys, 

Personnely I use tobbacco stems, works the same as pine needles and has the added benefit of being a natural bug repellant.

Lawman


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Yes, I know many that use stems and they are huge fans... I just continue to use pine needles because they work... im too lazy to change to something different. =)


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Clumping cat litter is not safe to use around birds or any animal that might ingest it!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yes, there were deaths reported from the use of nest liners (felts) that contained a toxic substance. A little searching here should turn up those posts (but one of you all will need to do that as I have new incoming to go and check on in a few minutes).

Terry


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

TerriB said:


> Clumping cat litter is not safe to use around birds or any animal that might ingest it!!!


Well then I won't use it...... Now I've got a giant bag of cat litter and no cat.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

roxtar said:


> Well then I won't use it...... Now I've got a giant bag of cat litter and no cat.


Ahh, "'Tis the season!" Some cat rescue would love to have the donation


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

roxtar said:


> Well then I won't use it...... Now I've got a giant bag of cat litter and no cat.


I DEFINITELY echo Snipes! Donate to cat rescue!  

*'TIS THE SEASON*... 

Hugs and Scritches

Shi & Squeaks


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Matt D. said:


> Yes, I know many that use stems and they are huge fans... I just continue to use pine needles because they work... im too lazy to change to something different. =)


Matt.........you tickle me!! LOL 
First of all you admit that you are selfish and now you admit you're lazy?? At least you're honest, I'll give you that.  
And Roxtar........what happens when a cat uses the litter box? The same thing would happen if your pigeons swallowed some of the litter and then got a drink of water. Don't think that kitty litter is a good idea. Use the pine needles. Go find a landscaping company and get the long pine needles. Not the ones that they sell at Lowes and Home Depot. My birds only play in those and MIGHT put a dozen pieces in the bowl. Give them the long ones and most of them build a nest that's almost to high and you're afraid the babies might fall out.  Don't know why they prefer the long ones to the "shorter" ones, as you're only talking a couple of inches, but they do.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Roxtar, I got a little tip from an old time flyer who bred early and have used his method of keeping nests warm and it is great. He used white play sand in his bowls and the heat from the parents body would heat up the sand and keep the eggs warm while they got down to eat or drink. The sand also made for easy clean up as the poop would clump and the legs of the YB's had plenty of support and they never ended up with splayed legs. I have used this method for 2 years now and have had no problems. Just another alternative. I use the tobacco stems after the cold problem is over as it deters any mites or other pests.
Ken


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

whitesnmore said:


> Roxtar, I got a little tip from an old time flyer who bred early and have used his method of keeping nests warm and it is great. He used white play sand in his bowls and the heat from the parents body would heat up the sand and keep the eggs warm while they got down to eat or drink. The sand also made for easy clean up as the poop would clump and the legs of the YB's had plenty of support and they never ended up with splayed legs. I have used this method for 2 years now and have had no problems. Just another alternative. I use the tobacco stems after the cold problem is over as it deters any mites or other pests.
> Ken


I've actually heard this too. Problem is, my nest bowls have holes in the bottom of them, so the only way to keep sand inside the bowl is to plug up the holes. I assume the holes were put there in the first place for some purpose. I do have a bag of sand here. Maybe I should try it?


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

I think the holes in the bottoms of your nest bowls are for ventilation Renee', that helps keep the nests dry. My bowls (big dog bowls) don't have holes in the bottom and last year I had a heck of a time keeping the nests dry so I want to try something different. 

Would saw dust work? I've got a ton of that sitting around here.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think saw dust would work pretty well. It would make the clean up easier. I think the more shaving-like it is, the better it would be though. It seems like the fine stuff would just fly everwhere whenever a pigeon came by.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

roxtar said:


> I think the holes in the bottoms of your nest bowls are for ventilation Renee', that helps keep the nests dry. My bowls (big dog bowls) don't have holes in the bottom and last year I had a heck of a time keeping the nests dry so I want to try something different.
> 
> Would saw dust work? I've got a ton of that sitting around here.


I would think that sawdust would work ok. The play sand isn't very expensive and a bag would last forever. Think it's about $6 or $7.


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## Grizzled (Oct 21, 2004)

Well I would agree with a number of you. I make my own nest bowls out of spruce 1x4s with a plywood bottom. I drill a few holes in the bottom, which will assist in ventilation, which in turn will help to keep the box(bowl) dry. Next I dust the inside with a louse/mite powder and then I pretty well fill the box with cedar wood shavings, which will help to insulate, absorb moisture and discourage parasites. I then fill the top with white pine needles ( these are the soft, pliable ones ) and the birds make the nest from there. As far as keeping the nest warm during cold weather breeding is concerned, it really isn't that important as long as you provide the proper material as the parent birds are generally quite competent where this is concerned.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

> Matt.........you tickle me!! LOL
> First of all you admit that you are selfish and now you admit you're lazy?? At least you're honest, I'll give you that.


Well I tell it like it is. Im the John Wayne of the 21st century. =)


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Roxtar, We have all gone over this many times on this subject.... I have used PLAIN UNSCENTED CAT LITTER for over 25yrs. in Disposible Normal Cardboard/Paper Nest Bowls Without Holes In It sold at any Pigeon Dealer like Jedds, etc.. The poop goes over the sides of the card board/paper bowls, not in the bowl. Let them eat the litter it if they want. Good for them I assure you. Then let them have Pine Needles, to build on top of it, but I use just plain UNCENTED CAT LITTER FROM WALMART... I'd put my % hatch against anyones. NEVER USE FELTS. So many pigeons have been lost with fumes that are in so many of the felts. Some may not have the fumes, but so many do. The play sands are mostly Silica Sand. I have used it, but not anywhere as good as Uncented Cat Litter. plus Silica is not good for any person or animal... Try the litter, You'll see..... Hap


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

roxtar said:


> Would saw dust work? I've got a ton of that sitting around here.


 HI ROXTAR, Do not use saw dust, it will hold moisture when it gets wet also saw dust can be harmful to the birds eyes.Just take a hand full of saw dust and wet it you will see that holds the moisture and takes awhile to dry out.Ihave a friend that uses oystershell. I have used felts for years and pine needles with tobacco stems.I feel that the problem with the felts is someone was selling some cheap homemade felts on the internet. If you use felts buy them from one of the pigeon supply houses. .GEORGE


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Meh, felts- Foy's stuck a free sample felt in one of the shipments that I got from them not too long ago and the thing stunk like moth balls. I threw it in the garbage. Not saying they're bad, I'd just rather not use them. 

I plan on cleaning the bowls out every couple days George. The idea is for the sawdust to absorb the moisture. Moisture goes into the sawdust and stays away from the birds and the babies. I was worried about the birds digging around in the cat litter and making themselves sick. I've got sawdust in the nests now and all seems fine so far.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

a number of flyers in south carolina have used unscented cat litter for 2 purposes for years with no problems.first the subject here of putting it in the bottom of the nestbowl.it works.it will not hurt the birds.i have done it myself for atleast 15 years and it is safe.secondly,i use it very sparingly under perches where droppings hit.it keeps the floor dry without the moisture.you have to use it sparingly though or you will develop a dust problem.it only takes a little to make all the difference in the world.my floors stay dry.you just sort of rake the droppings out of it,and replace some.(you can not use it deep litter style or it will choke you out of the loft.try it in your bowls though.they will be nice and dry,and you can get the droppings out easily.at the end of a round you will be amazed how clean the bowl will be.we have very high humidity here,and we have to do things other flyers dont to keep a dry loft.still let the birds have stems or pine needles on top and they will be happy and dry.i believe it has some heating effect as well.


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