# Thinking of a 2014 Pigeon talk One Loft Race



## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The club I'll be flying with has four races at 300 +. 2 at 300, 1 at 350 and a 400. The one loft race will be flown on these four club races.

It would be 40 birds total with no more than 2 birds per PT member. Open only to Pigeon Talk members.

Entry of 200 per bird plus 50 perch fee. Full entry payout plus the top three birds perch fee will be returned.

Payout for each of the 4 races,

1st clocked = 200
2nd clocked = 125
3rd clocked = 50

Best over all bird four the 4 races,

1st = 5000 + 50
2nd = 1000 + 50
3rd = 500 + 50

No one will be able to say that I would handle them any different if they were mine. Upon delivery all birds become the property of Ace In The Hole Loft. 

Forum open for your thoughts...


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

While your offer (again) to host is insanely generous, I think you'll find people here not to be so interested in prize payouts and would prefer a lower entry fee. I could be wrong. Lets see what others have to say. 

Those distances will be a big test!


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I would do it if there is enough interest, but only if I get my birds back.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I have determined to enter birds in only 10 one-loft and futurity races in 2014, but if this were to happen I would make it one that I would enter.
I would guess that finding 40 entries at 250 might be a complication?


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

David is right. While it would be tremendous to have you handle our birds Mark, that pricetag is just to high. Us lowly teachers don't get paid that much and I have to pick and choose my battles so to speak.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Might consider it if it was a team of 3 for that amount and opportunity for replacements and return of birds if desired?.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

I would be up for it, if a return option was available. Breeder could send return postage prior to the first race if they wanted to retain ownership.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I would be game if as stated before me there is a return option. Also only if entry fee(excluding perch fee) is refunded if the bird doesn't make the first race.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

$100.00 per bird with a one bird limit per loft...Replacements up until a certain date...
40 birds from 40 lofts/members...Prize winning birds returned to owners at thier expense...Non prize winning birds become property of One Loft Mgr,unless the Breeder wants to PURCHASE the bird back for $50 + S&H/Box....75% of ALL the money is paid out in the 300 mile race only....Remaining 25% goes to the top average speed winner....Average speed consists of one 100M race....one 200M race...and one 300M race....The 300M race is where the 75% is paid out to the winning pigeons...$3000.00 capital total.....

1st clocked $1,000.00.....2nd clocked $750.00.....3rd clocked $400.00.....4th clocked $250.00......5th place to 10th place clocked $100.00....
At least 10 Owners/Breeders will win money out of 40 Lofts/Breeders.....

The loft Mgr could have 30 birds to sell/keep...He will make his feed money etc selling the birds back to the owners....Cost to Breeders/Members is only $100.00 + S&H to the one loft mgr...Alot better then $250.00 + S&H.....

I would send one bird for $100.00,with the options as I suggested.....Alamo


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Alamo, that certainly is intriguing...


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree with gbhman. You may not want to get involved with the gambling thing until this case with PETA is resolved. I believe that if Rick Mardis looses his case, there will be a great deal of fall-out. I think other states are watching this case to see how it goes. All it takes is one complaint.


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

Just to be clear, what Alamo suggested is not gambling! His proposal was entry fee money sent in and that the prizes are generated from that. Prizes generated from race entry fees is not gambling, any more than if you register for a golf tournament for $25 and they take the registration money and return it to the top few golfers. Absolutely no difference. There is nothing anybody can say about that.

However, the types of extra "pooling" that goes on in the forms of calcuttas, etc. is technically gambling and could be in jeopardy. That's what has gotten some people into legal trouble. But what Alamo proposed is typical of any one loft race and is not "gambling". Let whoever wants to complain go ahead and complain all they want. There would nothing illegal about it. But the extra pooling of birds at most of the one loft races has been dropped and that would be something to avoid in the PT Classic as well.



akbird said:


> I agree with gbhman. You may not want to get involved with the gambling thing until this case with PETA is resolved. I believe that if Rick Mardis looses his case, there will be a great deal of fall-out. I think other states are watching this case to see how it goes. All it takes is one complaint.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I would do it if there is enough interest, but only if I get my birds back.


It was stated before that I was crazy to even think of taking on a PT race because there is no reward in it. When it is all over the 300 + mile birds will be my reward.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

V-John said:


> David is right. While it would be tremendous to have you handle our birds Mark, that pricetag is just to high. Us lowly teachers don't get paid that much and I have to pick and choose my battles so to speak.


I do not care about the prize money amount. I don't even care about the perch fees. I was trying to set it up so it would give a good pay out to those who entered. At the same time cut out some of the complainers...


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Ace how ever you want to do it works for me. I don't care if you want to keep the birds I have the parents and can breed more. I don't think any one will care about an ice cream bet.
Dave


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

raftree3 said:


> Might consider it if it was a team of 3 for that amount and opportunity for replacements and return of birds if desired?.


I would consider teams of three with oppertunity for replacement but the idea is for the birds to be my payment/reward for running this race.

How's this,

200 per bird up to 3 birds per loft 

No perch fees

Bird replacement till June 1st. ( first club race end of Sept.)

Entry returned in full if bird does not make the first race.

The birds become my property and are my payment for running the race!


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

Either way would work for me. I really don't care to get the birds back as it just means more prisoners to keep, and as Crazy Pete says I have the parents so can just breed more.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Not that anyone really cares what I think about it. But all of this money being thrown into the Pigeon Talk Classic event, ruins it for me.

There are plenty of one loft races I can enter if I want to pay hundreds of dollars. That is what separated this event from all of the others. I didn't even like this years $100 prize pool. But no worries, as I don't have a chance of winning it.  ha ha

I am disappointed in it becoming an income generating event, or even an "I keep the birds for my works" event.

If it actually comes to this. Count me out and I will not be donating a trophy to the winner, after the 2013 event. Even though I have stated in the past that I would donate trophies for all PTC to come. There will be plenty of money to buy a trophy, if that is something that continues to be given.

This would change the game for me.

But I wish all the best in whatever y'all decide.

Have we become so bored with this previously free event already? When I did it in 2012, entry was free if someone could not afford the requested ten dollars per bird donation. No one was turned down because of money. 

Now, we are talking about perch fees, prize money and no return of our best bloodlines.

No hard feelings. But no thanks. Some people here that may enter, could sell those young bird bloodlines for fairly big money. Not me, but some here. If they enter.

Although being able to keep all of the young birds MIGHT improve on total loses during training.


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## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

I thought the pt classic was a means for those to test their birds amongst fellow members. I can understand the saying on putting a price to slap those who are complaining but it takes the fun and friendly competition out.
Also, I would prefer to keep the winner than the prize money. Imagine if the bird flew an insane record having best average speed and come out even winning the pt race. Just because someone has the parents, it doesn't necessarily mean it can reproduce the same bird. Anytime a price tag is attach to what was friendly and what was supposed to be low cost, it ruins things.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> It was stated before that I was crazy to even think of taking on a PT race because there is no reward in it. When it is all over the 300 + mile birds will be my reward.


I would rather you have a perch fee than keep my bird (if its a good one.

I have always told myself that I wouldnt enter a race where I dont get my bird back.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

conditionfreak said:


> Not that anyone really cares what I think about it. But all of this money being thrown into the Pigeon Talk Classic event, ruins it for me.
> 
> There are plenty of one loft races I can enter if I want to pay hundreds of dollars. That is what separated this event from all of the others. I didn't even like this years $100 prize pool. But no worries, as I don't have a chance of winning it.  ha ha
> 
> ...


*Just so everyone understands...*

This race is not the PT Classic.

This race has nothing to do with the PT Classic.

This race is the *PT One Loft Race *and nothing else!!!


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

That clears things up a bit about it not being PT Classic. I would say "I'm In"


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I totally agree about trying to keep the PT Classic alive. The PT One Loft race idea is intriguing. Either way the more opportunities the better.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I would rather you have a perch fee than keep my bird (if its a good one.
> 
> I have always told myself that I wouldnt enter a race where I dont get my bird back.


Last year you let Walt keep the PT Classic winner. What's the difference here?


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

With those kinds of fees I would enter a known one loft race or futurity. I think if one wants to start a one loft venture they would have to start small and build on the reputation.


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> Last year you let Walt keep the PT Classic winner. What's the difference here?


The option to bring back or not.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

*The Race Is On*



ace in the hole said:


> 200 per bird up to 3 birds per loft
> 
> No perch fees
> 
> ...


I have had several PT members tell me to count them in so at this point I am stating that the race is on.

If you are in *PM me *and let me know. Please give me your name, phone #, 
best time to reach you and if you wish to enter 1, 2 or 3 birds. 

I will start making the entry list.


Mark/Ace


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Xueoo said:


> With those kinds of fees I would enter a known one loft race or futurity. I think if one wants to start a one loft venture they would have to start small and build on the reputation.


*Your odds of return are better on this one.*


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Xueoo said:


> The option to bring back or not.



I understand that. 

I know this race will not be for everyone. It has a max of 40 birds so it will not have more than 15 or so lofts entered.

I know, no matter what I do I will not please everyone. 

Mark/Ace


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> Last year you let Walt keep the PT Classic winner. What's the difference here?


Last year, I gave Walt the bird for personal reasons, and I might not want the birds at the end of your race, but I do want the option. I have a bigger loft now, and if one of my entries turns out to be a super bird, I will have room in the breeding loft.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Did you say when you will start accepting birds?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

For those of you who do not know me.

I have brought up my thread on *"Hillfamilyloft's test birds" *from 2008 and a thread *"One In A Million" *on my ability to settle birds.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> Did you say when you will start accepting birds?


My birds will be on the light & dark systems so for that reason the birds will be accepted from Feburary 1st till March 31st.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

ace in the hole said:


> *Just so everyone understands...*
> 
> This race is not the PT Classic.
> 
> ...


In that case, I misunderstood, and apologize. I took this as being in line with your previous thread that you were thinking of doing next years Pigeon Talk Classic.

Which is the Pigeon Talk One Loft Race of record.

Good luck with it. I believe this will effectively kill the actual PTC. But I believe it was going to be a hard sell anyway.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

ace in the hole said:


> *Just so everyone understands...*
> 
> This race is not the PT Classic.
> 
> ...


Ah, I misunderstood as well. 

I'll consider entering. I would hope that there would still be a PT Classic if someone steps up.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I though briefly about entering your race, instead I've decided to buy Texas Lotto tickets with the money. The tickets are only a dollar apiece and I have a chance to win millions. The chances of me winning the Texas Lotto are slim but the chances of my birds winning your race are also very slim and the winnings are insignificant compared to Lotto Texas. Instead I will stick with the PT Classic, I'm reasonably sure, but not positive, that someone will volunteer to host this classic event. I also suspect that your event will never get off the ground.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The only problem I see is $200 per bird,with a limit of 3....So $600.00 if you wish to send the max.....There are many one loft races for everyone to enter....I have been thinking about the AIC race out in No.Carolina or So.Carolina....$1000.00 per bird,you send 3 birds,and you have 2 backups,that you could activate later on....$50,000.00 to the 1st bird clocked on the 300M race...Other short races that pay very well...Average speed payouts,with I think $25,000 to the top bird....This race is worth spending alot of money...$600.00 for 3 birds with only a 40 bird total $$ available payout is silly at best...At $100.00 per bird,with only a ONE BIRD ENTRY LIMIT,would be more fun for everyone,with a total of 40 birds in the loft....It would be say be my bird,against the other 39 birds,from 39 other lofts,from accross the USA....Kinda like that alot better,with everyone buying their bird back after the final race.....Alamo


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I wont know till next year if I have the extra funds, next year I'll have 2 teams in the Sun City race and I plan on sending all I can to support the AU convention race in Omaha.
Dave


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

grifter said:


> I though briefly about entering your race, instead I've decided to buy Texas Lotto tickets with the money. The tickets are only a dollar apiece and I have a chance to win millions. The chances of me winning the Texas Lotto are slim but the chances of my birds winning your race are also very slim and the winnings are insignificant compared to Lotto Texas. Instead I will stick with the PT Classic, I'm reasonably sure, but not positive, that someone will volunteer to host this classic event. I also suspect that your event will never get off the ground.


Good luck with the Lotery. If you think your odds are better with the lotto tickets you really need to get some better birds!


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> The only problem I see is $200 per bird,with a limit of 3....So $600.00 if you wish to send the max.....There are many one loft races for everyone to enter....I have been thinking about the AIC race out in No.Carolina or So.Carolina....$1000.00 per bird,you send 3 birds,and you have 2 backups,that you could activate later on....$50,000.00 to the 1st bird clocked on the 300M race...Other short races that pay very well...Average speed payouts,with I think $25,000 to the top bird....This race is worth spending alot of money...$600.00 for 3 birds with only a 40 bird total $$ available payout is silly at best...At $100.00 per bird,with only a ONE BIRD ENTRY LIMIT,would be more fun for everyone,with a total of 40 birds in the loft....It would be say be my bird,against the other 39 birds,from 39 other lofts,from accross the USA....Kinda like that alot better,with everyone buying their bird back after the final race.....Alamo


I could care less about the entry fees of this race. That can and may be lowerd but I would never set the entry at only one bird per loft. Two or three birds give you a better chance of sending a good bird.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I would think,anyone who has been racing for 3 yrs or more,knows what pair of breeders are the ones who breed their best birds...You pick out the one you like of the 2 YB`s,and you send it...That`s your best chance to win !!...I see Ganus sends 15 to 20 birds to a Convention race....Not sure he knows how to pick ONE bird to send,if he had to....Alamo


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> I would think,anyone who has been racing for 3 yrs or more,knows what pair of breeders are the ones who breed their best birds...You pick out the one you like of the 2 YB`s,and you send it...That`s your best chance to win !!...I see Ganus sends 15 to 20 birds to a Convention race....Not sure he knows how to pick ONE bird to send,if he had to....Alamo


Even the greatest breeding pairs will not produce more than 50% good young... But you stick with that... I'm sure I know nothing about it...


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> Good luck with the Lotery. If you think your odds are better with the lotto tickets you really need to get some better birds!


Buying better birds would be the thing to do but I won't be buying anymore birds. Advancing age and health problems are taking their toll on me. Most likely I'll have to sell the birds I have in the near future. Instead I will hope I pair up the right pair and hope they produce a winner or at least a competitor for me.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My Dad flew pigeons with breeding from 6 pair of birds for over 25 years....He won $25,000.00 back in 1965 with a one bird entry,and the bands sold was 6,000+,with over 4,000 birds in the race...It only takes ONE bird,if you have a breeding pair that is that good....When Ganus sells YB`s from that old cock bird,for $7,000.00 each,I guess according to you,half the buyers are getting screwed ???......Alamo


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> My Dad flew pigeons with breeding from 6 pair of birds for over 25 years....He won $25,000.00 back in 1965 with a one bird entry,and the bands sold was 6,000+,with over 4,000 birds in the race...It only takes ONE bird,if you have a breeding pair that is that good....*When Ganus sells YB`s from that old cock bird,for $7,000.00 each,I guess according to you,half the buyers are getting screwed *???......Alamo


*YES, would be my answer. 

As well as it would be the answer for anyone who understands the breeding of racing pigeons and anyone who posesses what is called "STOCK SENSE". *


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Well,for $7,000.00 for a YB,I`m on your side...For $250.00,I would/will take a chance....Alamo


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I would say that it is more like 90% of the buyers are not getting what they hoped to get. But with the bloodline, you can try and get 10% for many years to follow. Thus, it might be worth it. That is, if 7 thousand dollars isn't much to you.

"sen*s*e"


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

my understanding is you would have to get atleast 8 young birds from that one good pair and just maybe one of them would be as good as the birds they came from. 

Michael Jordans sons have not become anything close to what he was! Peyton Manning & his younger brother are a rare example of what good genetics can do. I also believe that you should get good birds that typically fly in your combine unless you take a minimum of 3-4 yrs to develope a bird tat is accustomed to that course! 

I listen to guys buying and spending thousands of dollars on imported birds and losing 50% by the 3rd & 4th race and are not een at the compettitive level. The man to beat in my club never spent big money on birds and takes a stack of diplomas every year, Ace bird, And all other top rewards. I recently won a race two wks ago with a bird that I did not spend one dollar for and that same bird got 7th last wk.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

update? this happening?


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