# Possible Splay Legs



## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi All,

I'm currrently hand rearing two young chicks (which i have never done before). The parents refused to sit on the nest after a day so we decided to bring into the house and raise as they were becoming very cold & lifeless.

Things were going fairly well for about 2 weeks, then one chick just stopped growing. The other sibling remains healthy to this day and is now walking and squeaking like crazy. However the smaller bird just seems to have problem after problem - the latest with his legs.

All of a sudden he started fully extending one of his legs all the way back as though he was stretching. This continued until the leg was fully outstretched with 'palm' facing upwards most of the time. We took him to a vet this week who taped the legs together but this just seems to have made the chick worse as the bad leg seems now to have swelled and deteriorated. The vet also mentioned that movement in the leg seemed to be very restricted, although she did confess not to be a pigeon expert (our local avian vet wasn't interested because he isn't an 'expensive' bird apparently).

I've looked on the web at pics of spayed leg and i can't find anything that looks similar. Has anyone come across this condition before? 

Thanks in advance!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

it could be neurological, also salmonella can cause joint problems. as far as the vet goes...did she actually say she was not interested because he is not an expensive bird? Or are you just guessing at that? call another one if that is the case.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

If you have a chance, post a picture. It will be easier to check.


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

I'll post a couple of pics tonight.

With regards to the vet, the one that actually saw us was great, but did confess she wasn't an expert. It was the local avian vet that wasn't interested!

Because the chick doesn't look partcularly healthy (but is eating well) i'm wondering whether the best course of action is to ignore the legs at the min and focus on getting the birds strength up. Rather than trying to fix while growing, and putting additional stress on the bird.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bt3401 said:


> I'll post a couple of pics tonight.
> 
> With regards to the vet, the one that actually saw us was great, but did confess she wasn't an expert. It was the local avian vet that wasn't interested!
> 
> Because the chick doesn't look partcularly healthy (but is eating well) i'm wondering whether the best course of action is to ignore the legs at the min and focus on getting the birds strength up. Rather than trying to fix while growing, and putting additional stress on the bird.


You have to fix it while you have a window of opportunity, while the bird is young or it will not beable to be fixed. so you should not lag on this.

As far as the vet goes, I still do not understand..the local avian vet said with her own lips she was not interested because this bird was not expensive?...If that is the case she should be reported to the state board.


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Pics of sick bird and healthy sibling attached.

Not the best pictures, but they do give you an idea of how far behind the sick bird is compared to healthy brother/sister.

The position is typical of how the bird tends to rest. Right leg, swollen around the joint and fully extended to the rear with foot appearing swollen and less able than the left.

The left leg is often placed out to the side slightly, i've assumed to compensate for the right. The left leg seems unrestricted and fairly healthy.

We had bandages keeping both legs together for several days, but this appeared just to incapacitate the left leg also and cause the right to swell further. The bird ended up resting with both legs pointing slightly to the left and rear.

The other bird has no obvious health issues and is growing at a good rate. Very active and very vocal.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

There is something very wrong with this poor baby. Hard to tell if it is congenital or an infection such as salmonella.
I would start him on Baytril and an antifungal drug. 

Reti


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Thanks for the info - do you have any recommendations for an antifungal drug?


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## BirdDust (Feb 8, 2008)

The fact that the parents abandoned them may be your first clue. Second, poor growth rate should not be a problem if you are hand feeding a bird, especially if you have a sibling to compare it with. The extension of the back leg is not necessary straddle leg. It could be paratyphoid giving the bird that contorted look. It's hard to say in a bird so young, but proper binding of the legs will help straddle leg, but will do nothing if there are neuro problems going on. I would keep both birds separate to prevent any cross contamination. Normal droppings can also be misread. Plus if the leg is swelling, it's more then just a simple case of straddle leg. Poor growth rate is your major clue something else might be going on. Keep up the nutrition and bind the leg as best you can before it becomes disfigured. If you see the bird become distressed over this or start flipping over, it is a bigger problem.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

can you get a better pic of that leg, it looks like it might be injured around the top of the foot, how is his crop emptying?? he looks red and dehydrated on top of everything
i have to agree with reti and start him on baytril, nystatin is a good antifungal but there are others.
where are you in new england? if you are close i can help you hobble him and give you some nystatin


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

ooooh your in england england lol, sorry


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Crops emptying well, and regularly.

How would you recommend treating for dehydration?


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Also...

I can get hold of Nystatin today but it's likely to be in a cream form.

Could you advise how best to administer please?

ps. thanks everyone for all the info and support so far.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

waterdown the formula a little till his coloring looks a little better, check his mouth to see if he has stringy saliva.
the nystatin i use is for oral infections (thrush) you need a prescription for it, i wouldn't use the cream


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Thanks,

There's a few options available for thrush treatment so i'll see what i can get - what form would you use normally? powder, crushed pill etc...

I'll modify his formula from now on and make sure it's watered down.

I can't seem to get Baytril over here without prescription. I'll speak to a vet to see if i can arrange, but if not, is there a good substitute?

Thanks.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

nystatin i use comes in a liquid, maybe your vet can give you both so you'll have the dosing also, did you weigh him? maybe that way you can avoid another vet visit and he will just let you buy the meds


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

He's booked in at the vet in 20 mins so we'll hopefully get all we need!

Thanks very much for the info - i'll update with vets comments soon.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

great! let us know


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Just returned from vet.

She doesn't think dehydration is a major issue as he's very alert and responsive. However she has recommended diluting the mix slightly if it is a concern.

He's had an anti-inflammatory injection to ease the swelling on the affected leg.

We have a course of Baytril to be administered twice daily and another vets appointment next week.

She recommended leaving the legs alone for the next couple of days and not re-applying bandages.

The vet has recommended we weigh the bird regularly to monitor progress, and if no significant progress has been made by the appointment next week then start considering 'ethical' decisions.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

aww, i hope he gets better


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I'll keep my fingers crossed that he gets better.
Did the vet say what she thinks it might be?

Reti


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi Reti,

No the vet couldn't offer any advice on the cause of the issues. 

The vet doesn't profess to be a pigeon expert in any way, and i suspect the Baytril was prescribed as a result of passing on the advice we've recieved on this forum.

On a plus note, the bird does seem 'happier' this morning. Chirping for food and appearing more active in the legs, in movement and strength.

Pin feathers also starting to appear on wings and legs, so signs of growth still apparent.

We live in hope!!


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Quick update...

Since the vet visit and start of Baytril course (and anti-inflammatory injection) there's been no major signs of improvement.

The youngster seems quite active and keen to eat. His legs have seen no improvement (although they may be slightly more active now) and remain in the same position as before.

My main, and new concern is that his colour seems to be darkening and his overall skin tone seems to be bordering on purple rather than pink.

His feed has been diluted to try to rule out dehydration, and both ends of the bird seem to be active. 

Can anyone offer advice on the colour of the bird and whether that points to something i'm missing.

Thanks in advance.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Purple skin makes me think of lack of oxygen. I am thinking maybe this baby has some genetic condition, there is nothing that can be done for that. 
Did the vet run any tests?

Reti


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi Reti,

No the vet didn't run any tests as far as that's concerened. I think the vet's purely treating what she can see at this stage.

The parents of this chick laid 2 eggs prior to this pair and only one of those eggs hatched. Do you think this could be a factor? and maybe allowing the parents to breed in future could be a risk?

Thanks.


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

(Purple/bluish skin) = Cyanosis
Either it's having a systemic problem (respiratory as reti said 'lack of oxygen'/low heart beats) or his feed is high in protein, or he is cold, or there's poisoning (maybe drug overdoes).​


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Keep him as warm as you can and feed him maybe a more diluted formula so he can get also enough hydration.
It is possible there is something wrong with the parents and they transmit it to the youngs.
If you have access to their eggs maybe you should replace them with dummies at least for a few rounds. 
Are the parents related?

Reti


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## BirdDust (Feb 8, 2008)

I would say if you are seeing a discoloration of the skin, the bird would be in respiratory distress, bleeding internally, very cold or at the point of death. However if the bird is alert and doing well, I would say the skin discoloration might be its future feather color. What color are the parents and what colors have they hatched in the past. If the parents have a history of poor hatches, I would think twice before letting them breed again. Where some areas of the skin are dark, you might have black or dark gray feathers coming in. The rest of the bird might be white. Very pretty. The parents may be too closely related or be carriers of a disease that will give you a lot of poor hatches too.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Does the leg bend? Can you put the baby in your hand and "make" both feet grasp your fingers in the normal position (as if the bird was sitting on a tree limb)? Of course, without forcing the leg too hard and possibly injuring it.

This info would be helpful in determining if it is a disease , injury or spraddle leg.

P.S. Spraddle leg is nearly impossible to correct after a certain time (over a week of having it), and the bird will suffer the rest of its life. I have tried to "correct" that condition many times, in many ways, and it has never worked.

Maybe someone can tell me a method that works. I have bound the baby birds legs together, bound their legs to their body, tried just holding the bird several times a day in the "normal" leg position, etc, etc. Nothing has worked.

The only thing that has worked is to not allow it to happen in the first place, by making sure the next bowl has a firm gripping condition when the babies are hatched. Sand in the nest bowl, with the normal nest making material on top of the sand, (twigs, pine tree needles, tobacco stalks, etc.).

As someone mentioned above. I have a lot of experience in breeding German Shepherds, and when they abandon their newborn pups, it is an indication the the mother "knows" the baby is not right, and under the laws of nature instilled in them, she (they) can not waste milk or energy in taking care of "bad babies", and must move on to taking care of "good and healthy babies". Sad, but true. Humans are the exception to this lesson of nature (and that is a good thing for sure).

Good luck to the little thing.


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

Hi,

One of the legs has reasonable movement and can bend 'fairly' well. However the other leg is normally fully extended to the rear of the bird (often even forced upward almost as though he's trying to touch the back of his head) and this leg has very restricted movement. The foot on this leg also appears smaller than the other, although he does have functionality in the foot.

The colour seems to have improved over the last couple of days and feather colour could be attributed to some of the discoloration, as grey pin feathers are starting to appear in several areas. The sibling of this bird is almost pure white, but with a slight brown shading on the wing. We don't seem to have a standard colour, they can vary from almost black, to pure white.

He's putting on weight very slowly, and he's still very alert and keen for food.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Well. Sounds like something that is never going to rectify itself and become anything near normal.

Having said that, animals (including humans) usually "carry on" with whatever problem they have, sometimes seemingly unaware that they have a big problem. This bird, if it survives will probably learn to hop around on one leg or use its wings to balance and move around. It will live most of its life on its belly obviously.

There is a poem that applies I think:

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself."

Hope it lives and enjoys eating and cooing


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## bt3401 (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm sorry to say we've just lost the little guy in the last half hour.

Overnight he seemed to be a lot quiter then normal and this morning very sleepy. My wife booked a vet's appointment this afternoon as she was concerened with his condition, but unfortunately nature took its course in the minutes leading up to the visit.

I'd like to thank everyone on the forum who offered advice and support. It was greatly appreciated and even went as far as assisting the vet with medicine and treatment choices during visits.

In hindsight i suspect the chances of a happy ending were always going to be very small. However it does mean a lot to my wife and i that the youngster did enjoy a short life, where he was loved, and will certainly be missed and everyone involved in his rehab did as much as could possibly be done.

Thanks again to everyone involved - assistance was very much appreciated.

Barry.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Sad and a shame.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry the baby didn't make it.
You did everything you could and he had a happy short life.

reti


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