# Books on breeding



## Flying LV (Oct 7, 2008)

Would like to hear what books y'all are finding helpful or insightful as far as breeding is concerned. I'm wanting to dig a little deeper on line and inbreeding.

Thanks


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Flying LV said:


> Would like to hear what books y'all are finding helpful or insightful as far as breeding is concerned. I'm wanting to dig a little deeper on line and inbreeding.
> 
> Thanks


There are many books on breeding, linebreeding and outcrossing are some of the techniques used. But you will save a lot of time and money if you search the forums on this site and hear what others have to say on the various subjects. 

Other than that go to some of the on line supply stores for pigeons (jedds, segals, foys are just a few) they all from time to time have various books on pigeons for sale. Or you can go to ebay as you will always find someone who is selling memorabilia that include old books on the subject.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I resiliently got a book about breeding . In fact the book is titled " The Strain Makers The Art of Breeding Long Distance Pigeons " by Old Hand . This was written and first published in the early 1900's. I'm on page 44 so I can't really tell you its the end all about strain making but what I have read so far will likely take me down a different path with my own breeding plans. I like what I've read and the Author explains very well the steps it take to produce a winning family or line (strain) of racing pigeons. More so than other things I've read and heard people trying. The suggestion is to start with one champion Cock . The best you can afford . It must be a race winner, not a young bird winner but an old bird winner. Once you have this champion stud cock it is suggestions to mate this cock with someone's champion Hen and share the offspring, you getting the female babies to line breed down the road back to the stud. If this is possible ,your on your way. The main idea is to breed this one Cock to as many champion hens as you can or at least race winning hens to further your family. Its important to start with a male bird and develop your breeding around him not because a cock is superior to a hen , it's just easier to manage your breeding program by building a male strain. Part of the reasons given for starting with a male is that a hen cannot pass her sex genes on to her daughters - only her sons, and the male can pass his sex genes to both sons and daughters. The females biological function (genetically) is to act as a conveyance for the passing on of the racial qualities of the male. This applies to other forms of animal breeding too for example race horses . 

You can get this book on Amazon for around $40.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

ERIC K said:


> I resiliently got a book about breeding . In fact the book is titled " The Strain Makers The Art of Breeding Long Distance Pigeons " by Old Hand . This was written and first published in the early 1900's. I'm on page 44 so I can't really tell you its the end all about strain making but what I have read so far will likely take me down a different path with my own breeding plans. I like what I've read and the Author explains very well the steps it take to produce a winning family or line (strain) of racing pigeons. More so than other things I've read and heard people trying. The suggestion is to start with one champion Cock . The best you can afford . It must be a race winner, not a young bird winner but an old bird winner. Once you have this champion stud cock it is suggestions to mate this cock with someone's champion Hen and share the offspring, you getting the female babies to line breed down the road back to the stud. If this is possible ,your on your way. The main idea is to breed this one Cock to as many champion hens as you can or at least race winning hens to further your family. Its important to start with a male bird and develop your breeding around him not because a cock is superior to a hen , it's just easier to manage your breeding program by building a male strain. Part of the reasons given for starting with a male is that a hen cannot pass her sex genes on to her daughters - only her sons, and the male can pass his sex genes to both sons and daughters. The females biological function (genetically) is to act as a conveyance for the passing on of the racial qualities of the male. This applies to other forms of animal breeding too for example race horses .
> 
> You can get this book on Amazon for around $40.


Careful Erick,

There are those on this site that will have a melt down if you dare compare breeding of Racing Pigeons to Race Horses or any other racing animal. I do mean melt down, I am not one of them but since you brought it up let me say that any book on breeding (be it horse, sheep, goats , pigeons or cows) will help a new flier with the concepts that they need to learn about breeding Racing Pigeons. 

Once you know and understand the basic breeding concepts then where you take it from there is totally a sky is the limit question. Yes every book on breeding I have ever come across (I have read more than a few) says to begin with the best stock you can afford as poor breeding stock will only ever (but rarely) give you anything but additional poor stock. Where as a top breeder will give you top stock most of the time with only an occasional poor specimen.

This however this gives rise to the type of top stock you want to purchase? Do you want to excel at the short or middle distance races or do you want to excel at the long? As a short distance speed bird will likely not give rise to decent long distance (600 mi or more) stock and vica versa.

Anyway,

Good luck to you


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

hi Eric,Although the books written by stan bishop were many and entertaining to say the least(old hands).a big part of imformation wrote down were basically figments of his imagination..especailly his noturious " Eyesign"reworking.

I think you will find the book you mention was wrote @early 1950s with other editions later,having read most many many years ago,its sad if novices nowadays take time to read this and start on the wrongfoot.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I will never believe you must have a champion in the blood to breed up to that point.
True it will dramatically speed up the process, but with time any group of Racers can be bred to be a top Racing family. It just takes a breeder with the patience, and the judgement, and instincts to do it. 
If more flyers took the time to work with the stock they have, they would be surprised by what those bloodlines can produce over time.
I also have been guilty of looking for winning stock from the outside all the time and stocking too many Birds.
It only takes a short time to mess up a proven winning family of Birds.
BUT I believe a good Flyer can in a few years turn an average group of birds into a winning family. JMHO 
I have kept only 4 pair of stock birds this year all related except for 2 birds.
I will first pay attention to Homing instincts alone, after training out i will do tough single tossing, As I used to do.
Speed will come later........I find doing it this way I lost few birds in the races
Again JMHO........


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

Inbreeding..What it is and what it does...W.Watmore..
Try to remeber that you do not need to be an expert on the subject,best to use this imformation same as turning on a lightswitch...very simple,very,efficient,inbreeding cannot lie it will tell you very quickly faults in your base birds....and as long as you use the racebasket hand in hand with this..you will be ok


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

dannyboy said:


> hi Eric,Although the books written by stan bishop were many and entertaining to say the least(old hands).a big part of imformation wrote down were basically figments of his imagination..especailly his noturious " Eyesign"reworking.
> 
> I think you will find the book you mention was wrote @early 1950s with other editions later,having read most many many years ago,its sad if novices nowadays take time to read this and start on the wrongfoot.


Although a man of many interests John W. Logan was destined to become the pioneer of distance pigeon racing in England. It was the late scribe and Logan specialist who wrote under the pseudonym of 'Old Hand', S.W.E. Bishop, the original editor of the 'Pigeon Racing Gazette', who referred to Logan as 'the wild Irishman'. Well it’s not the first time that persons of Irish blood or association have contributed to the culture and the sport of other lands. And what better area of contribution than the sport of pigeon racing in the land of the rose.

Thanks to the power of the internet it's hard to keep a secret. I am interested in his writing and it doesn't matter if the book says "Old Hand" or " Bishop" 
When we start to talk about J W Logan who I believe started in the sport around 1870 and developed a long distance strain of his name sake I can't resist . I have a breeding Cock in my loft that is down from E. Lang Miller blood who for those who haven't heard of him was a Distance strain maker in the U.S. in the 1930s . Whether or not any of the blood from his champions is still present in my bird is for a different post. 

As for his books there like anything else , just a tool for someone to use. Much of what I've read in similar to many other articles about breeding . If you personally have something to add to the conversation it would be most welcome.


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

Well Eric,there were a few "old Hands" down throughout the years,and did you know the last, Bill Cowell(BILCO),passed away 2 weeks ago and although thePIGEON RACING NEWS AND GAZETTE has been dead and buried many years now,mr Cowells christmas ghost stories still surface at this time of year to this very day...and very good they are to..


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

dannyboy said:


> Well Eric,there were a few "old Hands" down throughout the years,and did you know the last, Bill Cowell(BILCO),passed away 2 weeks ago and although thePIGEON RACING NEWS AND GAZETTE has been dead and buried many years now,mr Cowells christmas ghost stories still surface at this time of year to this very day...and very good they are to..


Very interesting dannyboy, it seams you have a vast knowledge about English history and I want to welcome you to the Pigeon Talk site. I'm sure you will have some good input into the conversations here which by the way have been very stagnant lately. Since you live very close to the source of the birth place of the modern racing pigeon and live in a country which helped shape the birds we fly today. It no secret the many British fanciers made trips to Belgium to bring back the Antwerp based birds to found their lofts including the person I mention before ,JW Logan . According to the history I'm reading the first fancies were wealthy bankers and merchants and a race was nothing more than birds flying across the English channel with messages of important business matters along with a few side bets on who's bird would get there first. Of course the Roman army brought the bird to Belgium in the first place , so if I've learned anything from the "Old Hand" books its a little history. 
With that said , lets move on to today and try to unravel the secrets that the fancies of old used to bring those old blood lines along to the modern day pigeon where its not uncommon for birds to fly 500 miles on the day .


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

Thank you very much for that Eric,and to be honest mr bishop was a suberb writer,and his magnificent stories about"pinkies" hatch on the moon cicle are nothing less than a beautifully witten fable...funny thing "Planting by the Moon" (authors name escapes me at the moment)
and many other crop planting books should be read by breeders of racing Pigeons as you will find valuble imformation inside.as many..racehorse breeders have themselves.
Funny thing,just thinking now,a very famous Scottish Scribe in the British Homing World wrote very intresting follow -on articals down over 50 years 1 or 2 are superb,and 1 i recall,i still have it somewhere in the attic rooms here,an old BHW stud book early 80s and honest to god you read that and it would turn your head curly ,it was that class..he liked to call these babies hatched ON THE GROWING MOON,*******..like victorian plums...super healthy throughout their lives jim george was his name he died a few years back ..Round 0) was his pen name...all the knowledge .gone now..just pieces we need to trty to patch together ourselves.
Opoligies for rambling on Eric,and getting back to your post ,i would love to be involed infuture topics...most of all proper distance stuff,especially you american and the Australian Extreem distance stuff years back ,you lot still hold records for 600/800/1000miles birds but for some reason the passion seems to have died outover there,not saying altogether but seems hard to find much.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

NO BOOK, or written word can take the place of instinct and a knack for Breeding. 
If it where possible to write down the path to success, all would be successful.
Any written "Instructions" are subject to interpretation. and almost impossible to replicate. 
Each situation, Location, source of Birds, is different. 
The first thing any Pigeon Racer must do is take what ever Blood line he /she has back to the basics..... make sure they are Homers First.
As has been stated, and I agree with, we are letting "Homing" go by the wayside.
There is no "Environmental Anomaly" causing so many losses in the Races JUST poor Breeding/Training.


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

LUCKYT said:


> NO BOOK, or written word can take the place of instinct and a knack for Breeding.
> If it where possible to write down the path to success, all would be successful.
> Any written "Instructions" are subject to interpretation. and almost impossible to replicate.
> Each situation, Location, source of Birds, is different.
> ...


 Well Lucky,the days of racing just"HOMERS" have long gone here mate...you cant just wait for these armour plated warriors to turn up way off the pace...you would be crucified here,i know its nice,even magical getting birds coming in from Barcelona days out of racetime,just to see them turn up ,when you come home from work one evening,but those types are slowly ending...speed speed speed..even into your extreem distance stuff the way its gone here mate....your right...this process produces many failures along the way ,but not many boys want birds that just"turn up no matter what"..sad but true.


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## bob prisco (Apr 26, 2012)

*100-600 Only Way To Go In Usa*

In other countries fanciers have the choice to fly sprint , middle , long distance and many, if not all specialize at a distance. They can find several races at their distance to compete.They develop a family to compete at that distance over several years and breed for it.
Here in "USA" ,in YBS. and OBS. we fly race season ( YBS. 100-350 miles) (OBS. 100-600 miles) . I feel you are best suited to find birds that will compete from 100-600 miles. Yes ,their are families of birds that have that ability.
I could never understand why fanciers buy sprint , middle distance and long distance birds to try and compete in club and combine races - when you can find it in a "family of birds developed to fly 100-600 miles".
Instead of 20 pair of breeders to cover all distances , you need 6-8 pair to do the same thing.
Every part of country has it's own special racing problems , ( wind , water , mountains ,heat , cold , etc.) certain birds are not equipped to handle all conditions , so why have that bird in your loft or spend money breeding for a quality that can not help you in your area.
REMEMBER , this can not be developed in your birds or breeding program without training and racing - if you are trying to do it by paper or pedigree without racing your birds ,you are wasting your time.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

dannyboy said:


> Well Lucky,the days of racing just"HOMERS" have long gone here mate...you cant just wait for these armour plated warriors to turn up way off the pace...you would be crucified here,i know its nice,even magical getting birds coming in from Barcelona days out of racetime,just to see them turn up ,when you come home from work one evening,but those types are slowly ending...speed speed speed..even into your extreem distance stuff the way its gone here mate....your right...this process produces many failures along the way ,but not many boys want birds that just"turn up no matter what"..sad but true.


I think you missed my point, I pretty much said START, by getting them back to being homers, Than go for speed. We have to many families of Birds that fly real Fast but we are loosing to many due to selecting just for speed.
I never said anything about just racing Homers..........I said that was a starting point we need to get back to, at least here.
Besides no Pigeon flies Long distance unless it is already has a strong Homing ability. homing ability does not just mean it can get Home, but that it also DESIRES to be Home, that desire with the proper "Body type" is what makes a great racer. I.E.... It comes home fast.
I never insinuated just an ordinary homer is desired for Racing, but many I believe, have let this ability go by the wayside.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks to Amazon and Santa Clause, I now have all 4 books written by 'Old Rand". They start with The Racing Pigeon and Pigeon Racing for VOL1, the Pigeon Fancier, The Pigeon Racer and the Last book The Strain Makers The Art of Breeding Long Distance Pigeons.


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

I find it interesting to look at pedigrees of top racing pigeons to see how the birds were bred. There are certain pigeons or pairs that appear frequently in a fanciers family. For example - "Golden Lady, Zus Rambo, Noble Blue, Gentil are pigeons that appear frequently in Gerard Koopman's family of pigeons.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Rod Hultquist said:


> I find it interesting to look at pedigrees of top racing pigeons to see how the birds were bred. There are certain pigeons or pairs that appear frequently in a fanciers family. For example - "Golden Lady, Zus Rambo, Noble Blue, Gentil are pigeons that appear frequently in Gerard Koopman's family of pigeons.


If you take a look at these you can decipher his program. Could it be a male dominated line ? Is there one dominate cock in the pedigree . Does he bring in a hen to make the cross ? This picture is a sample of a Male Line


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall the only cross the Janssen brothers brought in was a cock the called the "Halve Fabry." It was half Fabry and half Janssen.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Rod's post about the "Halve Fabry" brought to mind something I do to study how the greats and even the best in the world today establish a strain. I read their history section of their web pages. You can learn a lot about how they got to where they are today. Many, just as the theory of starting with one bird, started the same way. First and foremost start with great birds. A good place with a bit of cash would be to look at the OLR and purchase a top bird off a top fancier. Preferably one with a sound family and not just a name. One of my foundation cocks is a Vic Miller bird. His Sire was purchased from The Vegas Classic Race. He flew pretty good. When you think about it, it is a Vic Miller bird off is best that he payed 1K to enter it into a OLR from a sound family of birds. Probably a good start. 
If you want to follow stock building from genetics and do not have a bunch of money, hit the best flier in the club and get a son off his best pair. I have a pair that breeds me cocks that produce winners. I sent on to "Ace in the Hole". He is also producing for Mark. Get a cock bird that has a history of producing top birds. 
I think too many fliers use the shot gun effect when selecting breeders. Throw a bunch of birds in and see what happens. I have seen it too often, where a guy will do this and not be happy. Their solution is to throw more birds at the problem. Might be better to get rid of all and start with a few quality birds. You might look for high points birds in the club. Last year our high points bird in the club had three 1st and 5 top 10 finishes. I would love to start with him.


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

Another piece of reading I found interesting.
*Mitochondrial DNA And The Significance of The
Maternal Line*
By Silvio Mattacchione BA MA


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Rod Hultquist said:


> Another piece of reading I found interesting.
> *Mitochondrial DNA And The Significance of The
> Maternal Line*
> By Silvio Mattacchione BA MA


I read the article by Silvio last night and found it interesting . The book I'm reading had a few thoughts on the female line vs the male line when building a family and the Arthur has a whole chapter on the Producer Hen and their importance but as far as building an inbred family I think using a stud cock would be easier to manage the system. 

I would be curious to find out if the Fabry bird the Janssen brothers used was a hen or cock. The Brothers had a very inbred family and it makes since to bring in new blood to invigorate their family. 

I'm no expert on genetics so I add this article on sex linked genes for you to think about. 

Sex Chromosomes in Pigeons 


The way sex determination works in birds is nearly the reverse of how it works in mammals. If you’ve played Pigeonetics, you know that the sex chromosomes in birds are Z and W. Male birds have two Z chromosomes, and females have a Z and a W. Male birds make sperm, which always have a Z chromosome. Female gametes (eggs) can have a Z or a W.
◾Male offspring get a Z chromosome from each parent
◾Females get a Z from their father and a W from their mother
◾Z chromosomes never pass from mother to daughter
◾W chromosomes always pass from mother to daughter

In birds, it’s the males that have two copies of every gene, while the females have just one copy of the genes on the sex chromosomes. The W-chromosome is small with few genes. But the Z-chromosome has many sex-linked genes, including genes that control feather color and color intensity.

X & Y and Z & W are just two of the ways that sex is determined in animals. Some animals can even change from one sex to another. To learn more, visit Sex Determination.



Inheritance of Sex-Linked Genes


For genes on autosomes, we all have two copies—one from each parent. The two copies may be the same, or they may be different. Different versions of the same gene are called “alleles” (uh-LEELZ). Genes code for proteins, and proteins make traits.* Importantly, it’s the two alleles working together that affect what we see—also called a “phenotype.”

Variations in genes can affect our inherited characteristics, accounting for the differences from one individual to the next. For examples, visit Observable Human Characteristics and The Outcome of Mutation.

Female pigeons (ZW) have just one Z chromosome, and therefore just one allele for each of the genes located there. One gene on the Z chromosome affects feather color; three different alleles make feathers blue, ash-red, or brown. In a female bird (ZW), her single color allele determines her feather color. But in males (ZZ), two alleles work together to determine feather color according to their dominance. That is, 'ash-red' is dominant to 'blue', which is dominant to 'brown'. 

Having two copies of a gene can be important when one copy is “broken” or defective. A functional second copy can often work well enough on its own, acting as a sort of back-up to prevent problems. With sex-linked genes, male mammals (and female birds) have no back-up copy. In people, a number of genetic disorders are sex-linked, including Duchenne muscular dystrophy and hemophilia. These and other sex-inked disorders are much more common in boys than in girls.

Red/green colorblindness is also caused by a defective gene on the X-chromosome. You need at least one working copy of the gene to be able to see red and green. Since boys have just one X-chromosome, which they receive from their mother, inheriting one defective copy of the gene will render them colorblind. Girls have two X-chromosomes; to be colorblind they must inherit two defective copies, one from each parent. Consequently, red-green colorblindness is much more frequent in boys (1 in 12) than in girls (1 in 250).

*Some genes code for functional RNAs, which also influence our traits.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

A few pictures of the basic stuff just for fun.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

here is one more for viewing pleasure .


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

When gametes (egg and sperm) form, chromosomes go through a process called recombination. During recombination, homologous chromosomes pair up and exchange stretches of DNA. Recombination makes new allele combinations, which can then be passed to offspring.

When sex chromosomes don’t have a homologue (XY male mammals and ZW female birds, for instance), the sex chromosomes do not recombine.* Instead, the sex chromosomes pass unchanged from parent to offspring. But when sex chromosomes do have a homologue (as in XX female mammals and ZZ male birds), the sex chromosomes recombine to make new allele combinations.

In pigeons, color and dilute (color intensity) are controlled by two genes on the Z chromosome. In males, recombination between homologous Z chromosomes can make new combinations of color and dilute alleles (by chance, some offspring will still receive the same allele combination as the father). But in females, where the Z chromosome does not recombine, the two alleles always pass to offspring together.

* This isn’t entirely true. Portions of the X and Y chromosomes, called the “pseudoautosomal regions,” do pair up and recombine. These regions have the same genes, which are not considered sex-linked even though they’re on the sex chromosomes.



Sex-Linked Genes Can Also Be Genetically Linked


In pigeons, the color and dilute genes are not only sex-linked, they are also genetically linked.

Unlinked genes, whether on the same or different chromosomes, are inherited separately 50% of the time. Genes that are genetically linked are inherited separately less than 50% of the time. The closer together the linked genes are, the less likely it is that a recombination event will happen between them. Color and dilute are separated by recombination about 40% of the time (in males only, of course), so they are not very close together. 

Inheritance

Gene 3 is more closely linked to Gene 2 than to Gene 4. Gene 1 and Gene 3 are not linked, but by chance they will still stay together 50% of the time, the same as if they were on separate chromosomes.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Picture for the above post


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

The last picture for the above post


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

[*QUOTE=ERIC K;802985]I read the article by Silvio last night and found it interesting . The book I'm reading had a few thoughts on the female line vs the male line when building a family and the Arthur has a whole chapter on the Producer Hen and their importance but as far as building an inbred family I think using a stud cock would be easier to manage the system. 

I would be curious to find out if the Fabry bird the Janssen brothers used was a hen or cock. The Brothers had a very inbred family and it makes since to bring in new blood to invigorate their family. *

The "Halve Fabry" was a Cock.


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

I suspect that the Janssen Brothers had a specific "type" that they had achieved over the years. It is my understanding that the hen as more to do with "type" than the cock. So by bringing in a cock for their cross their idea of "type" remained consistent with their other birds.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

You can sometimes I.D. a Janssen just by seeing the Bird. Yes, the tend to be a certain Type.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

LUCKYT said:


> I think you missed my point, I pretty much said START, by getting them back to being homers, Than go for speed. We have to many families of Birds that fly real Fast but we are loosing to many due to selecting just for speed.
> I never said anything about just racing Homers..........I said that was a starting point we need to get back to, at least here.
> Besides no Pigeon flies Long distance unless it is already has a strong Homing ability. homing ability does not just mean it can get Home, but that it also DESIRES to be Home, that desire with the proper "Body type" is what makes a great racer. I.E.... It comes home fast.
> I never insinuated just an ordinary homer is desired for Racing, but many I believe, have let this ability go by the wayside.


Hi Luckyt,

You just hit on a point I have tried to cover several times over the years. when you concentrate on just one concept, be it speed, homing ability, ect. then you are inevitably giving up others.

Also I covered much of what your mentioning about a poor racer never giving rise to an outstanding breeder in other posts, actually you seem to think along the same lines as my brother an I have for years. As I said earlier in this post poor breeding stock will rarely give rise to superior birds. I did not say never, I said rarely, so an inferior pair in my estimation is on that out of say ten nestings you get one great flier and say two or three decent fliers, so out of 20 babies the pair breeds you three babies you can possibly use. These are not good odds by anybody's standards. A good pairs will give you a 50/50 chance and well outstanding stock will give you 15 or more good fliers out of 20 babies. the super breeders, will give you 19-20 out of any crossing and these are rare indeed.

Yes you can take a bird with no/or very little homing instinct and over several generations get its youngsters to not only home but do so in race time. The real question is are you as a brand new flier willing to invest years of breeding to get to that point. most new fliers quite within just a few years because they obtain mediocre birds and expect the moon out of them right from the get go. 

I would never try to tell a new flier to start with inferior breeding or racing stock in hopes of having a good racing pigeon at the end of the season. 

Now on the other hand if you have a wife that likes white pigeons and years of experience to back it up. Then you have the luxury of keeping the wife happy and being able to vastly shorten the time needed to turn white release pigeons (bred for generations to only home 50 miles or less) back into bonified racing stock that can not only make it back in race time but win races. Still working on the last part but in two years of breeding the whites I have come up with a handful of pure whites that can home from distances up to two hundred miles. This year I will be crossing a few of them onto my best young birds from last year in hopes of getting the racing blood back into then. by next year hopefully their speed will be back up to what I expect from them. 

What I can do in a few short years, some could probably do even faster. perhaps. However I would never encourage a new flier to pick up or buy inferior stock, always purchase the best you can reasonably afford and proceed from there. This doesn't mean best brand name ether, figure out who has the best birds in your area, for the course you will be flying and obtain birds directly from the original source if you can and go from there. As a new flier you will be further ahead and if you start with the best stock you can, than if you begin with scrubs (inferior stock).


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## Ramiro (Oct 8, 2007)

I'm new to racing pigeons and have a question about breeding for homing ability.

Forgive me for reviving an old thread, but if one breeds those birds that fly home the fastest, how is one NOT selecting for homing ability and just speed?

Or rather how does one breed and select for speed and not homing ability?

I've yet to acquire my first birds and am trying to read up as much as I can to avoid any rookie mistakes.

I was searching for inbreeding and read this entire thread and saw some interesting posts and book reviews.


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## Ramiro (Oct 8, 2007)

I would hate to acquire my first birds only to have them fly very fast and lack homing ability and end up losing many during races.

Should I aim to breed for birds with a strong desire to be home and superior homing ability and then focus on speed?

How do I go about this? Do I select birds with the body shape which would be most conducive to fast flying? 

How does one breed for homing ability AND physical traits?

And also about eye sign theory. From the quick reading that I've done the vascularity (and thus eye color) in the eye may be a signal or indication as to the amount of vascularity in the pigeon's musculature and therefore and indication of endurance capabilities.

Do I have this all wrong? IS there more to the eye? 

Any recommendations for further reading would be greatly appreciated.

I'm still looking for resources explaining the different families/strains of pigeons and their strengths and weaknesses to compare them to each other.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Ramiro said:


> I'm new to racing pigeons and have a question about breeding for homing ability.
> 
> Forgive me for reviving an old thread, but if one breeds those birds that fly home the fastest, how is one NOT selecting for homing ability and just speed?
> 
> ...


I can't speak for everyone but most birds will fly at 40mph without a tail wind. Some birds with different shaped wings ,feathers and body types are known as sprinters and they simple cannot fly more than 200 to 300 miles and they are faster than normal birds but I've never know a bird like that . If you select birds that only race one loft races and short sprint races that's what you will get. Many OLR birds are fast but lack the ability to handle the normal club racing program without very good training. Fast birds either burn out early or simply can't find their way home alone. 

Homing ability is something you can't see in a bird just by looking at it. It will reveal itself by testing the birds or babies from your breeders. This is why you must find a good breeder that has done the hard work for you and get only birds from proven families . Even then there is no guarantee but you should be years ahead starting with a higher quality bird.

I am in the process of starting over with only one male and a few females to try to build my family . I've read it in the book the Strain-Makers. I'm not sure how it will turn out but I'm at the point where having many different strains of mixed blood birds has got me stalled so to speak . Although I have several breeders that will produce a winner now and then I think I'll be much happier with one family of birds and save on the feed bill by not keeping so many average birds.


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