# Can you sex a pigeon by looking at the rectum and "that area"?



## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

I was able to check all four of my pigeons down in the rectum and sex organ area... Is it possible to sex a bird by checking this area? Would someone mind explaining what the area down there should look like and how it functions? We could sex our chickens by checking for an egg vent. I'm just wondering if pigeons are the same "down there".  Sorry, but I don't know how else to put it. I've been reading like a mad-woman and can't find anything in the book about it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> I was able to check all four of my pigeons down in the rectum and sex organ area... Is it possible to sex a bird by checking this area? Would someone mind explaining what the area down there should look like and how it functions? We could sex our chickens by checking for an egg vent. I'm just wondering if pigeons are the same "down there".  Sorry, but I don't know how else to put it. I've been reading like a mad-woman and can't find anything in the book about it.


I've heard that you can check the vent of baby pigeons, around 3 or 4 days old and if the vent is "smiling" (upturned a bit) then it's one sex and if it's "frowning" (downturned a bit) it's the other sex. I forget which is which. Believe me, if we could sex a grown pigeon by looking at it's butt, no one would ever wonder if a pigeon is a male or female. 
The other way that I explained seems like a lot of trouble to go through to me. If the bird is around long enough, you eventually figure it out and when you're talking about someone who raises 50 to 100 or even more babies every year (not me, but some people do), who's got time to check them all, mark it down and keep it all straight? Especially considering that the bird isn't banded yet at that age and two baby pigeons for the most part look just alike at that age...........haven't ever needed to know the sex of a particular bird that bad. 
Bottom line is, in 1000's of years, no one has ever figured out an easy way to sex a pigeon.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

I know from rehab and checking and then having babies (Mourning Doves) that you can manually compare both birds. Obviously you have to have 2 birds to compare at least. Females have wider distance from edge to edge when you palpate pubis area (You feel for bones) compare with males , for egg passing in future. Pretty much like with chickens.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

The method Renee suggested re checking babies butts is quite accurate - cocks smile and hens frown. Of course, this has to be done in the nest before the feathers cover the area.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

So, do the parents allow you to look at the baby?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

moonshadow said:


> So, do the parents allow you to look at the baby?


Most of them........no, they don't "allow" you to even THINK about looking at their babies. If you REALLY want to see the babies, you just have to be careful, but firm and take them out and look at them. I've got a few pair who will allow me to touch the babies, but the majority of them pitch a fit, wing slapping and carrying on and if you're not careful, the babies can get injured, so I basically check to make sure the baby has hatched ok and is alive and leave them alone until I band them. If I catch them feeding the babies, then I don't even look at them. If they're feeding them, then they're ok.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

so if you have two babies, one a "smile" and one a "frown"..how would you know who was who at weaning....unless you marked them somehow....they are not like puppies and kittens....lol....I "rectum" I will not be doing this...lol....


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

How about banding on the left leg if it's a smile and right leg if it's a frown? 
I was going to test this theory with this years young but kept forgetting when it came to banding!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Becca199212 said:


> How about banding on the left leg if it's a smile and right leg if it's a frown?
> I was going to test this theory with this years young but kept forgetting when it came to banding!


by the time you band them they are 7 or 8 days old...can you still see the smile/frown then?....if you tried to band a color band on them at 3 days it would fall off or mom and dad would take it off....ummmm


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm getting the biggest kick out of this thread and I just wanted you to know


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> I'm getting the biggest kick out of this thread and I just wanted you to know


yea, it kinda makes you want to SMILE...he he.....Im glad Im a smile and not a frown...not that there is anyting wrong with a frown...sometimes they are needed...lol...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> so if you have two babies, one a "smile" and one a "frown"..how would you know who was who at weaning....unless you marked them somehow....they are not like puppies and kittens....lol....*I "rectum" I will not be doing this*...lol....










LOL!!!!!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> by the time you band them they are 7 or 8 days old...can you still see the smile/frown then?....if you tried to band a color band on them at 3 days it would fall off or mom and dad would take it off....ummmm


To be honest, I've never flipped them over to look at their cute little butts, so I have no idea how it would change, if at all, in a few days. Anyway......it's MUCH more fun to watch them grow up and THEN figure out what sex they are, and write it down with a pencil so that it can be erased and changed a dozen times before the final verdict is in.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

corvid said:


> I know from rehab and checking and then having babies (Mourning Doves) that you can manually compare both birds. Obviously you have to have 2 birds to compare at least. Females have wider distance from edge to edge when you palpate pubis area (You feel for bones) compare with males , for egg passing in future. Pretty much like with chickens.


Sometimes fanciers will feel the vent bones to TRY to determine the sex of a grown bird, but most fanciers want a bird with a "tight" vent, and some males don't have as tight a vent as the next one, and some hens have very tight, close vents, so that's not always a way to tell.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

One guy I know looks at the feet to sex. He swears that pigeons are similar to humans as in the females two forward outside toes are even and then males are uneven. Does that make sense? Or something like that... I never did understand, but he picked my birds. I guess we'll see if he's right when/if they breed.


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## moonshadow (Mar 26, 2007)

Charis said:


> I'm getting the biggest kick out of this thread and I just wanted you to know


We'll I needed to know!  Who else was I going to ask?


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

spirit wings said:


> by the time you band them they are 7 or 8 days old...can you still see the smile/frown then?....if you tried to band a color band on them at 3 days it would fall off or mom and dad would take it off....ummmm


Maybe you could paint a toe nail if it's a girl? Make sure you use a pretty color or they might not like it and peck it off.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Two "experts" disputing the sex of a pigeon*

Hello Moonshadow,

a couple of years ago at a local weekly (Sunday morning) pigeon and small animal market, two prospective Turkish buyers were studying the feet of a pigeon, and disputing the claim of the German seller that the pigeon they were holding was female. He said he knew his birds, and that this particular pigeon had raised a couple of the other pigeons in the crate from eggs she laid. 

He didn't argue the issue further with them. I didn't study the feet or get more involved in the issue, since I wasn't buying. (I had gone there to find out more about pigeons and how to care for rescues). I don't think the guys purchased the pigeon, though.

Larry


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

moonshadow said:


> One guy I know looks at the feet to sex. He swears that pigeons are similar to humans as in the females two forward outside toes are even and then males are uneven. Does that make sense? Or something like that... I never did understand, but he picked my birds. I guess we'll see if he's right when/if they breed.


Oh yes, indeed...I have heard and seen this. A few years ago, when Cindy and I went to the State Fair, we talked to one of the judges who showed us this method. 

When I first got Squeaks and had a racing pigeon person examine him, he, too, used the "toes method" and said I had a male. Of course, I thought I had a male too, but was only going by my "gut instinct." And, Mr. Squeaks certainly IS 100% MALE! 

Have also heard something about the shape of the cere of the eye: round is hen; more "tear" shaped: male. 

Also, I have a tri-color (a.k.a. Tortoiseshell) West of England Tumbler who is a hen. Now, in cats, tri-colors are female. Extremely rare to see a tri-color tom and they could be sterile. Maybe with WOEs, this tri-coloring could be true??

Hugs
Shi

P.S. WoeBeGone's story will be posted soon..._with_ pictures...


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## j_birds (Sep 8, 2008)

Maybe I'll just ask them lol not sure I'll get a answer tho.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Sometimes fanciers will feel the vent bones to TRY to determine the sex of a grown bird, but most fanciers want a bird with a "tight" vent, and some males don't have as tight a vent as the next one, and some hens have very tight, close vents, so that's not always a way to tell.


I have a rehabber friend who tells the sex by the vent bones. That is why we have cocks named Pearl, Rosie, Sugar, and Snowflake. In Snowflakes case, given the track record, I waited to name him till I was sure. Rosie was my error. I knew for sure his nest mate was male, so figured he was a hen. He was also a slow starter. He didn't show any interest in the hens until he was about nine months old. 

Margaret


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

I still have a couples birds I cant tell what sex they are and they are like 3 years old so you can never really be sure unless they lay and egg if you ask me lol


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## Buckett (2 mo ago)

pigeonpoo said:


> The method Renee suggested re checking babies butts is quite accurate - cocks smile and hens frown. Of course, this has to be done in the nest before the feathers cover the area.


Ok so if u look at that what about when it's straight


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