# Resetting the homing instinct?



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi, I am a new owner of a pair of discarded racing pigeons, and I hope to provide a good life for them. 

My biggest hope is to `reset' their homing instinct to give them a chance to fly for say an hour a day. Maybe I'm dreaming but it would really nice if I could get them flying again since they bred to fly so well and so fast. 

I haven't been exactly sure how to find the information I'm after, but then it occurred to me that with `one loft' racing, at some point the pigeons are returned to their original owners , is that right? And when they return, they have to be somehow be trained to return to the correct loft? At least you'd think the owners would want to train the winners to home correctly?

So my questions are, are there some tips for resetting a homer to not fly away? Do any of you have some experiences to share about trying it for yourself?

Thanks so much for your time.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

One Loft race birds may or may not be returned to the breeder, depending on if they want them back or want to auction them off. Those birds are prisoners and can only be used as breeders. If your racers are over a few months old, then they will fly away when you let them out. Especially if they were flown/raced previously.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i agree with Becky... you may need to " clip " their wings or tape them( even tho i wouldn't and some will tell you not to) or you may have to keep them locked yup for a very long time hope they have a few broods and then try to let them out, but even then they may take off and not come back or they may be gone for days, weeks or even months, so it's a touchy call....


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

From reading some of the posts there are some who will argue that it can be done, and others that say it cant.
There are some that have had birds return to their original lofts 10 years after being sold, but that could also mean they have been prisoner birds for those 10 years.
I think it really depends on how good the individual birds homing ability is.
From most of the views, If it was me, I would take the descision that there is NO definate way to make sure they stay around, no matter how well they are treated & fed.
If they are allowed to free fly, Chances are one day they may just try and return to their original home.
Only sure way of keeping them around is to have a large secure enclosed aviary for them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well they do not call them HOMERS for nothing..............


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I have had a few of my prisoners/breeders get out by mistake and I was lucky to get them back . Two cock birds with a nest box and babies got loose at different times, the first one took off like a rocket only to return the next day and after day two I netted him at night , he didn't know how to get back in. The other was caught by leaving a door to the feed room open and he went inside to get to his nest. I think it is wise to keep them locked up with and cage to be outside sometimes. Food, water, sun shine,a bath every now and then and a nice dry place to call home will be the best for them. Let them have some babies and fly the young, maybe then you could try to let the older ones out with a nest box to call home.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ERIC K said:


> I have had a few of my prisoners/breeders get out by mistake and I was lucky to get them back . Two cock birds with a nest box and babies got loose at different times, the first one took off like a rocket only to return the next day and after day two I netted him at night , he didn't know how to get back in. The other was caught by leaving a door to the feed room open and he went inside to get to his nest. I think it is wise to keep them locked up with and cage to be outside sometimes. Food, water, sun shine,a bath every now and then and a nice dry place to call home will be the best for them. Let them have some babies and fly the young, maybe then you could try to let the older ones out with a nest box to call home.


if you keep homers that do not home..then that is fine if you want to risk flying them just for the sake of having some birds.. but if you want to breed these..then it would be better to get better stock, as these would not be considerd good homers if they did not fly back to their place of origin or the place they were settled as young birds.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks a lot for your feedback guys. I'd really hate for them to try to fly back `home', as one comes from 2000 km south; he probably wouldn't make it home but he might try. And the hen is from a loft that was taken down because the fancier got alzheimers & his family had to auction off all his birds. 


So, you think that the best bet is to make as big an enclosure as possible? Can a racing pigeon be happy living that way?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks a lot for your feedback guys. I'd really hate for them to try to fly back `home', as one comes from 2000 km south; he probably wouldn't make it home but he might try. And the hen is from a loft that was taken down because the fancier got alzheimers & his family had to auction off all his birds.
> 
> 
> So, you think that the best bet is to make as big an enclosure as possible? Can a racing pigeon be happy living that way?


oh yes they would be just fine.. all they really want is food and water and a place to nest.. comfey and secure.. I have a pair of "prisoners" in a flight avairy and they are or seem just happy as can be.. I would hate to think what would happen to them if let them out and they tried to find home.. it is the responsible ownership of these birds that keep them safe.. just as a preowner of homing pigeons after they gave or sold to someone only to find the birds were let out at some point....they would not be very happy about it..and would look for their birds to try to make it home and worry and wonder ..esp if they never made it back. I have not sold a pair or any older homers before..but if I did and they came back.. I would not be too happy with the person I sold them too.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks Spirit wings,
Are you and I cool? Sorry for all that stuff that happened before; it was probably all my fault as I can be overly sensitive.

Thanks for your help and advice. I am very new to racing pigeons and what I'm learning is really interesting to me.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Quazar said:


> If they are allowed to free fly, Chances are one day they may just try and return to their original home.
> Only sure way of keeping them around is to have a large secure enclosed aviary for them.


Dear Quazar,
Thanks for your reply. Off the top of your head, what do you think the minimum aviary size should be for two pigeons?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

horseart4u said:


> i agree with Becky... you may need to " clip " their wings or tape them( even tho i wouldn't and some will tell you not to) or you may have to keep them locked yup for a very long time hope they have a few broods and then try to let them out, but even then they may take off and not come back or they may be gone for days, weeks or even months, so it's a touchy call....



Dear Horseart4u,

I was just wondering how would the wing clipping/taping work? Is that so they can walk around `free' in the yard?


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I would raise a few young birds off this pair. Then train the young and fly them. NOW yes old birds can be settled But not every one. And yes even super birds can be settled But it is a chance. better to raise some young. The pigeon really doe not mind so much being kept in the loft. They live a rather safe life. And live for many years. I would not clip there wings as they would not escape a hawk if need be. or cat ect.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I have an article from a guy in europe on how to race and train old birds. In the articles he claims to the effect that he had a bird raced by another flyer without success. He took the bird and raced it for a season to his loft and did well. The original guy got the bird back and raced it back to the first loft the next season. 

The first rule of pigeon flying is don't believe everything you hear or read. 

I had a red rose starter loft that was holding cocks that were one loft birds in 2009. The spring of 2010 they raised babies in individual breeding cages. After breeding season I moved the cocks to the red rose loft. The door latch broke and I used a cinder block to keep the door closed. A cow moved the block, opened the door the cocks flew out. I think I had seven total that got out five stayed on the roof of the red rose loft and I netted them. They did not know how to get back in. 

This season YB I have three squatters. Two of the birds had been loft flown and on training tosses successfully for their original lofts. Maybe they are no good as homers or were not fully settled. One of the breeders asked me to drive the bird solo to work and toss it away from the loft and he was thinking it would fly home. When I got home the bird was back in my loft from a single toss. 

The second bird the guy said was from some of his best stock. I have already tossed that bird with multiple lofts and it has come back to me. I have a chip ring on it and will fly it on my team. 

They could be dumb birds, who knows, for whatever reason they like my loft. 

I think you could follow the same trap training for yb with an older bird just take more time. If the bird was paired up and on eggs I think you could very accurately settle leaving one of the pari locked up. If the bird has raised babies or has a mate in the old loft I think it would make it more difficult. If I knew the other flyer and we talked before hand I would try to settle them. 

As you said one of your birds is from far away and I would not try it with that bird.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Both of these were born in 2010, so would being only yearlings make a difference do you think?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

> I have an article from a guy in europe on how to race and train old birds. In the articles he claims to the effect that he had a bird raced by another flyer without success. He took the bird and raced it for a season to his loft and did well. The original guy got the bird back and raced it back to the first loft the next season.


I've heard of this kind of thing happening too. Usually it was an accident, where a bird strayed into another loft and wanted to stay there for some reason. 




> This season YB I have three squatters. Two of the birds had been loft flown and on training tosses successfully for their original lofts. Maybe they are no good as homers or were not fully settled. One of the breeders asked me to drive the bird solo to work and toss it away from the loft and he was thinking it would fly home. When I got home the bird was back in my loft from a single toss. The second bird the guy said was from some of his best stock. I have already tossed that bird with multiple lofts and it has come back to me. I have a chip ring on it and will fly it on my team.




Sounds like they like your place



> I think you could follow the same trap training for yb with an older bird just take more time. If the bird was paired up and on eggs I think you could very accurately settle leaving one of the pari locked up. If the bird has raised babies or has a mate in the old loft I think it would make it more difficult. If I knew the other flyer and we talked before hand I would try to settle them.


DO you think a 2010 bird would have bred yet, or is it unlikely?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Bella_F said:


> Both of these were born in 2010, so would being only yearlings make a difference do you think?


If these are your only two birds I would do as others have said. Raise a few from the pair and work on settling the babies first.

Have you successfully settled young birds to your loft?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Flapdoodle said:


> If these are your only two birds I would do as others have said. Raise a few from the pair and work on settling the babies first.
> 
> Have you successfully settled young birds to your loft?


No,these are my first pigeons and I don't have proper accommodation for them yet. They are in a large, tiled, sun room flying free for the moment. I am saving up for an aviary/chicken coop 3m X 2m high X 1.5m wide. Do you think that is the right thing for them?

PS. I should add that I feed wild birds in my yard and I have a regular flock of wild pigeons here each day. They don't roost here though.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Bella, your aviary size sounds just fine, they would be happy there as long as there was a bit where they could get out of the sun & shelter from any wind or rain. For just two birds, they would have more than enough room.
You'll notice most replies are related to actually keeping "racing" or "homing" birds with respect to actually breeding them and partaking in the "sport".
(ie, breed & let their young fly).
I'm presuming this is just a home for the two "rescued" birds, and if they do mate you know the drill with dummy eggs etc.
Also, please make sure that any "wire" panels in the aviary are "1/2 inch hardware cloth" and not wire mesh (like chicken wire).
Predators can get through chicken wire in no time and also rip it off at any weak spots.


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## newbie001 (Aug 22, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Bella, your aviary size sounds just fine, they would be happy there as long as there was a bit where they could get out of the sun & shelter from any wind or rain. For just two birds, they would have more than enough room.
> You'll notice most replies are related to actually keeping "racing" or "homing" birds with respect to actually breeding them and partaking in the "sport".
> (ie, breed & let their young fly).
> I'm presuming this is just a home for the two "rescued" birds, and if they do mate you know the drill with dummy eggs etc.
> ...


Something like 
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9426503&fh_locat ion=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372012}/categories%3C{9372019}/categories%3C{9372069}/categories%3C{9572015}/specificationsProductType=wire_fencing


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks Spirit wings,
> Are you and I cool? Sorry for all that stuff that happened before; it was probably all my fault as I can be overly sensitive.
> 
> Thanks for your help and advice. I am very new to racing pigeons and what I'm learning is really interesting to me.


Yes Iam fine.. not sure what happend before as I do not remember..lol.. I do not tend to hold on to things.. sorry if I was negative to you. anyway you will really like the homers and Im sure they will be in the best of hands good luck with them!


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> if you keep homers that do not home..then that is fine if you want to risk flying them just for the sake of having some birds.. but if you want to breed these..then it would be better to get better stock, as these would not be considerd good homers if they did not fly back to their place of origin or the place they were settled as young birds.


If your talking about my birds that got out and never flew back to their birth place because they had a new home and nest box with babies , then???. The first bird that got out is from Antoine Jacops blood and was race in 09 as a young bird in MCW club. Top of the line stuff. The second was raced by a club mate of mine . The bird was raced by him in 09 too, intered as a bond bird to fly in our 300 mile bond race . Not a junk bird to give away but something to win a money race with. His loft was only 6 mile from me and the bird stayed at my house. With that said then one must think that you can re home a cock bird to a new nest, sometimes .I can't say that a hen will stay because I never had one escape. I have had a stray homer inter my loft after a training toss. I owner said that bird is nuts so keep him if I wanted to . Well I didn't have many birds so I did keep him and flew him and even raced him the next year. I got 2 young that finished high up in many races in 2010 YB and as old birds this year ,from him. I did loose him in a race, will never know why , maybe he re homed to a new loft, again. 

Maybe I should have started with "better stock" but any new pairing will be a big ? until you race the young and as old birds too . Then you might be on a path to something good.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dear Eric,

I am only learning so almost everything I know about homers is from reading. But some of the stuff I'm reading from credible sources (IMO) indicates that widowhood is largely, if not exclusively, responsible for the homing instinct. Widowhood sounds kind of cruel to me and I doubt that many fanciers would admit to how far they go to stress out their breeding racers to make them come home. But I do suspect that the trauma of having a mate taken from a pigeon, or, worse, seeing the mate put in with a competitor as `inspiration' fpr the cock to race home quickly makes a huge impact on whether that homer will settle nicely into a new location.

If I could ask these sorts of questions, knowing I'd get honest answers, what I'd want to know is how many lofts race their birds without resorting to widowhood. I also wish I could ask the previous owners of my own birds if they were treated that way or not.


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

Bella_F said:


> Dear Eric,
> 
> I am only learning so almost everything I know about homers is from reading. But some of the stuff I'm reading from credible sources (IMO) indicates that widowhood is largely, if not exclusively, responsible for the homing instinct. Widowhood sounds kind of cruel to me and I doubt that many fanciers would admit to how far they go to stress out their breeding racers to make them come home. But I do suspect that the trauma of having a mate taken from a pigeon, or, worse, seeing the mate put in with a competitor as `inspiration' fpr the cock to race home quickly makes a huge impact on whether that homer will settle nicely into a new location.
> 
> If I could ask these sorts of questions, knowing I'd get honest answers, what I'd want to know is how many lofts race their birds without resorting to widowhood. I also wish I could ask the previous owners of my own birds if they were treated that way or not.


Widowhood is definitely not "responsible for the homing instinct", how would you explain all the racing of young birds hundreds of miles who are barely sexually mature and not even at the point of pairing up or raising babies? 

Widowhood is simply a motivation tool to enhance the bird's desire to come home quickly. You can race on a natural system which is referred to as "fly to perch" and not use widowhood, that choice is up to you. I personally don't see anything cruel about it, but to each his own.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

I have a breeder hen that is frim a different loft. She got out and just flew to the loft roof when our flyer returned she traped with them. She has not layed eggs in our loft yet but she has become mthe best dropper any one could ask for. I took here out on a 2 mile toss with the team and she got lost, but was found by so friends and returned. She is nolonger part of the flight team but she id wonderful for dropping the YB when they start to fly. One theing we can all learn is there is more to learn.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Dear Eric,
> 
> I am only learning so almost everything I know about homers is from reading. But some of the stuff I'm reading from credible sources (IMO) indicates that widowhood is largely, if not exclusively, responsible for the homing instinct. Widowhood sounds kind of cruel to me and I doubt that many fanciers would admit to how far they go to stress out their breeding racers to make them come home. But I do suspect that the trauma of having a mate taken from a pigeon, or, worse, seeing the mate put in with a competitor as `inspiration' fpr the cock to race home quickly makes a huge impact on whether that homer will settle nicely into a new location.
> 
> If I could ask these sorts of questions, knowing I'd get honest answers, what I'd want to know is how many lofts race their birds without resorting to widowhood. I also wish I could ask the previous owners of my own birds if they were treated that way or not.


Bella Just so you know I fly my birds on a natural systerm with a few changes I and other flyers have found to be useful for racing . I do race some of my birds to 10 day old eggs, for hens it works great. The cock birds if they have a nest are race to the nest and a hen waiting at home. I don't think it hurts the birds in anyway other than they know where they really want to be , at home in their loft. Extra motivation to get them home fast.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

If they are "REAL" homing pigeons--you can not resettle them.
I had birds to come back to my loft --that I had given another flyer 3-4 years ago.I got rid of my birds back in OCT 2007 and just 2-3 months ago I had a bird return-----A White Delbar Cock.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> If they are "REAL" homing pigeons--you can not resettle them.
> I had birds to come back to my loft --that I had given another flyer 3-4 years ago.I got rid of my birds back in OCT 2007 and just 2-3 months ago I had a bird return-----A White Delbar Cock.


I have heard may stories just like that. Here is another story: The other day a friend let some of his younger birds out for the first time. In the group was a gifted bird from another flyer in our club. The bird was never outside in his birthplace and this was the first time to fly in his new home. That birds first flight was back to his birthplace loft and trapped in with the other young birds there. So I guess he is a "REAL" homing pigeon.

I still had those two cocks get loose and they stayed because they had a nest with young. They might have left for their first home if they were single birds.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks guys for clearing up some of the misconceptions I've had about widowhood. There' s a lot of information about it out there on the net about it and I guess a lot of what I've read is wrong, then.


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

you should get in touch with this guy...he /she is an expert !!!

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/proved-the-pigeon-experts-wrong-55827.html


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