# Breeding Program



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I wanted to start a thread on breeding philosophy and breeding programs, so we all could post our ideas down. Hopefully we can learn from each other and gain some secrets along the way. I have been breeding birds now for 10 years and have developed a system that has been working pretty well for me. I started to jot my ideas down in an article format. I will post what I have done so far. I am writing it as steps in breeding winners. Hopefully some can get ideas from it. I will post it in step by step order. Hopefully I will have time to finish it.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Breeding Pigeons Made Simple

When I began my pursuit into pigeons in 2004 I had two goals in mind, obtaining good racing pigeons like I had when I was a young man and get my three boys interested in the sport. In the early days, I was given an established family of Sions from some local fliers in town. I was one a few junior members in town and flew a small team. My breeding system consisted of putting all the birds in one loft and watching to see what happened. I was lucky in that I was quite successful as a young flier. So successful that the club split into an adult and junior division. Before then the few juniors in the club were no competition. I began to beat the senior’s birds. My most vivid memories were watching those Sions fly so high they were almost out of sight. They flew forever. No special breeding system and no training regime, just good birds flying everyday. My mentors did all the work, and I took advantage of the shortcut to the top. I had learned my most important lesson in the rearing of good pigeons. Jumping to today, 2014 Acquire good quality stock.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Step One: Acquire great stock- when acquiring stock I was very lucky. I did some local research and found a guy in Durango Colorado. In fact there were two top-notch futurity fliers in the area. One wanted hundreds of dollars per bird; the other wanted to help new fliers. The expensive birds were warranted and from a family of Vic Miller birds that bred the 2001 Snow Bird Classic winner. Needless to say hundreds for pigeons was not my wife’s idea of a hobby. She still to this day does not understand why, but that is another in-depth article to write. I acquired 12 birds from what I thought were the best area birds in my budget. I asked the fancier what they were worth and what he wanted for them. He simply told me that if I had to ask what they were worth, I could not afford them. A few weeks later and a bit of nagging, I had pedigrees in hand.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Step Two: Have a System- One theory on genetics is that if you leave a population alone, that they will gravitate toward mediocrity. In other words, you better intervene in pairing if you want to be successful. Problem is, that I had no idea, and less experience in what birds to put with what. Also to this day, although I try hard to convince otherwise, I concur with myself that as long as you have good birds, they can probably productively pair themselves. I find every year that in my flying loft; I let a few pairs freely breed as they wish, and get good racing birds. This being said, I do a few things to secure quality in my stock. I have a breeding system and I do not deviate from it. Except for those few pairs in my breeding loft.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Step Three: The System- This may be more of a goal than a system. I want every bird in the loft to have bred a winner or be a winner. What is realistically a winner, you ask? I had to establish criteria in regards to what I call a winner. The club I fly most of my birds in starts with around 500 birds a race at 100 miles and dwindles to around 200 birds at the 400. Birds and fliers in this club are as good as anywhere in the country. They fly multiple directions and have bird limits. My birds fly out of different lofts with different levels of experienced fliers. In other words, a good local test for my birds. Not the level of one loft competition, but at set competitive criteria that is doable on a budget. Selection from this competition level for my breeding system is a rigorous hierarchy.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Step Four: Selection- Selection is a simple system I use to establish breeders. After 10 years, I can say that it is working as I had dreamed it could. Not perfect by any means, but functional in developing better stock every year. Included are a couple of tables. One including my selection hierarchy and the other my 2015 projected breeders by criteria.

*Level of Selection	Description*

*Breeders of Winners* Pairs that breed winners stay in the loft. I also include what I call high points breeders here. Birds that breed top 10 high points birds in the club. 

*Winners* Winners are the next birds selected for breeding. Top 10 high points birds would also be included here.

*Top 10 birds* Pairs or birds that breed multiple top 10 birds. Breeders of birds on the first drop would go here. Also birds that race with top 10 finishes

*Inline Breeding* I am a firm believer in same sex siblings off of top breeders and same sex of winning birds.

*Better Birds* If your birds consistently beat mine, I want them to cross in or replace my birds completely.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

2014 Projected breeding pairs with criteria


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Following steps that I am still in the process of writing about. Hope you get something out of my philosophies. Would love to hear others. 

Inline Breeding- 

Elimination

Line breeding

New Blood

Partnerships

Conclusion


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Step Two: Have a System- One theory on genetics is that if you leave a population alone, that they will gravitate toward mediocrity. In other words, you better intervene in pairing if you want to be successful. Problem is, that I had no idea, and less experience in what birds to put with what. Also to this day, although I try hard to convince otherwise, I concur with myself that as long as you have good birds, they can probably productively pair themselves. I find every year that in my flying loft; I let a few pairs freely breed as they wish, and get good racing birds. This being said, I do a few things to secure quality in my stock. I have a breeding system and I do not deviate from it. Except for those few pairs in my breeding loft.


The last line should read racing loft. For the last three years, I have got a top 10 bird out of my flying loft letting the birds breed freely. I discovered my best current pair this way. Goes back to the philosophy that if you do not know the birds do not bring it in. 

I am making one change to the breeding table. 1332 is not coming home this year. The guy that flew her is keeping her to breed this year against his third best bird. She was his second best bird. He is a grizzle that flew out to 400 and had top 10 races. On the condition that she comes home next year and that if a baby does well it comes with her. This is where partnerships come in. Also having birds breeding in different lofts give bio security. 1332 is sibling to last years second high points bird. Infusing her blood into another loft will help keep the blood alive.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have a half sister to Ed I will put in her place. She has bred me winners. She is getting a bit older, but still has eggs.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

In looking at my steps, I need to add "keeping the loft" young. I have been replacing aging breeders with young winners.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Allmost all your pairs are close to the same year 09 cock to an 09 hen, I like to put my 03 cock with an 12 hen she sems to give him a little vigor. Do you pull a young bird and put it in the breeder loft if it has a good season? I don't like to breed unless they have had 2 or 3 good seasons. In the past I haven't bred from a bird unless it has had at least 3 600 miles races and been home on the day. I do have a lot to learn as I have never care about young bird racing, it was just a step to the long distance. With all the OLR races I need to rethink a lot of my breeding. Do you like to raise young early or late? Last year was the first year I had young ready to band the first of Jan.

That is a good system and should help a lot of people get to where they want to be as most people just race young birds today.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Crazy Pete said:


> Allmost all your pairs are close to the same year 09 cock to an 09 hen, I like to put my 03 cock with an 12 hen she sems to give him a little vigor. Do you pull a young bird and put it in the breeder loft if it has a good season? I don't like to breed unless they have had 2 or 3 good seasons. In the past I haven't bred from a bird unless it has had at least 3 600 miles races and been home on the day. I do have a lot to learn as I have never care about young bird racing, it was just a step to the long distance. With all the OLR races I need to rethink a lot of my breeding. Do you like to raise young early or late? Last year was the first year I had young ready to band the first of Jan.
> 
> That is a good system and should help a lot of people get to where they want to be as most people just race young birds today.


I think it depends on your goal. My goal is to raise a family of fast maturing futurity able birds. A strong family from 200-400 that are good in club races as well as futurities. One of these days I hope to be in a position to send birds to futurities and OLR. The money is at 300 miles. 
I am also not in a position where I get to fly my own birds. Therefore, I must bring them back after young bird season. I fly most in ABQ. They fly 8 or 9 races out to 400 as a young bird. Being as I am shooting for young birds this works for me. Not perfect, but all I have.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

As far as breeding birds close to the same year. I have heard that you want an old bird with a younger bird. Once again not my criteria in breeding. As you see my 09 to 09 pair currently is my best breeding pair. The have bred 8 birds in the last two years. One a race winner and top 10, one second high points in the club, and two others top 10% birds. The will stay together as long as they are breeding winners. 
I am splitting up my foundation pair of Ed and Charlotte this year. I am trying to get more fertile eggs from her this year. Also test to see if Ed is still fertile. I am putting them with 2012 birds. They have been prolific breeding winners and offspring that breed winners. If you look in the table you will see many birds off this pair. If not directly then grandchildren.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Thought about something Warren Smith said. "Your best pairs only breed about 10% winners". This stuck with me. Don't think every bird is good. This is why line-breeding is farther down my list. It is the last resort for stocking. It is better to take that 10% and put in you stock loft than what you think will work.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

On another note. I like the idea of making birds give you 3 good years of racing before you stock them. I just do not have the ability to do that. We have a guy in the club that uses that criteria. Only problem with his system is that he also brings in imports, birds off guys from around the country, etc. He breeds 100 youngsters a year. Not sure how many are off his 3 good year birds. In my opinion he brings in too many other variables to his system. He also is down the list on race day most of the time.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Thought about something Warren Smith said. "Your best pairs only breed about 10% winners". This stuck with me. Don't think every bird is good. This is why line-breeding is farther down my list. *It is the last resort for stocking*. It is better to take that 10% and put in you stock loft than what you think will work.


I'm confused by this. Why wouldn't you want your goal to have both? i.e. line bred birds that have performed or produce performers? To me, line breeding is high up the list. But certainly not as the exclusive criteria. The perfect breeder to me has both the performance _and_ line breeding so as to concentrate the genes to a more homozygous and predictable state.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Kastle Loft said:


> I'm confused by this. Why wouldn't you want your goal to have both? i.e. line bred birds that have performed or produce performers? To me, line breeding is high up the list. But certainly not as the exclusive criteria. The perfect breeder to me has both the performance _and_ line breeding so as to concentrate the genes to a more homozygous and predictable state.


I think you can use line breeding to drive winning or on the flip side winning to drive line breeding. I choose to use winning as the primary selection criteria. Some say you want a line bred family, some say diversity is the key. To me if I always stock winners and keep winning producers, whatever comes of it is the answer. If you have better birds line breeding will win. If a guy beats you and you bring in his birds, outcrossing wins. But in the long run winners beat out non-producers.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Some times the homozygous and predictable state of a family gets beat by others. In this case diversity by bringing in the birds that better yours, or all out replacement might be the answer. In my book the best bird is the answer. I use line breeding when I run out of stock birds that win. I stock their same sex siblings.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

The only way over the long haul to win consistently, and have a family IS to line breed. the problem I have with just breeding winner to winner is the number of winners you get is not consistent. You are not Breeding up just level.
I guess I am different, I found it much more enjoyable to be able to say this bird that did good is 8th Gen. from my stock.
Rotondo was successful through line breeding, but even went way farther by inbreeding. I have done both in many types of livestock.
Inbreeding, unless an outside blood line is added now and then is a dead end. 
Line Breeding, and only adding a worthy Bird, that fits, when size and vigor starts to decrease (which happens fairly soon in inbreeding, not so much with careful line breeding)) seems to me to produce higher quality, and more consistently winning Show and Performance Birds/livestock. JMHO
I plan on Line breeding my homers and rollers over the next few years,
With Line Breeding, you can discover the Plus and Minus of your Birds and add Blood accordingly.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't want to step on anyone's toes here but in searching for a better way to progress in my own loft I have been reading an old book about strain building and in chapter 5 the Arthur writes. 
" You Can take a champion cock and put him to a champion racing hen and unless the union is blessed with miraculous luck it will produce mediocre progeny and, in many cases, the most appalling rubbish. How many of us are guilty of committing this piece of breeding folly in the speculative hope that a pair of winners might produce another bevy of them? The mating of winners in the hope that they are also sublime breeders can be chalked up as one of the fancier's greatest illusions."

Now with that said , so many times I have heard that you should breed best to best to produce the best but in most lofts you will only have one best bird, so in fact after the first pairing your selection will be diminished with each and every other pair. This is why I'm interested in the building of a loft based one using 1 cock and line breeding him to several good producer hens and then continuing the line by mating father to daughter , then father to grand daughter , etc. There will be a selection process when choosing the daughters to breed in the line and I'm told to use the males produced as the testing subject by racing them and saving the female for your pairings. Starting with A as you stud cock you will have mating's (A x B =D) (A x C =F ) first generation . ( A x D ) = E and (A x F= G) second generation . (E x G = H ) H will now contain a very high % of the stud cocks genes. so instead of the endless search for better birds you have just created your own in a few generation .


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Personally, I have read that line breeding is the best, that hybrid vigor is the best etc. Too much confusion for me. I am a math teacher and numbers guy. If you go back to my breeding chart you will see a family of very related pigeons. Other than the pair of 54's from Mark 489 and 490, all my birds are related. I started in 2005 with no winners and no pairs breeding winners. To defend my system, today I have out of 16 pairs, 5/16 pairs that have bred winners, 6/16 that have bred top 10 birds, 12 birds that have bred winners, many good racers and race winners etc. This year I had 3 winners out of three different pairings. Not to say my method is better than what you are reading, but it works well for me. Warren states that you will get 10% of your babies that race well. Last year my percentages was 23% of my young birds were points birds. Statistics are what drives my program. Line-breeding is an integral part, but only driven by winning not a genetic system.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My best cocks in my loft have been:

Kahunna, Ed, Maverick, 47167 and 7726. I have the following offspring breeding from these cocks. 

Kahunna- 3 cocks and 2 hens
Ed-4 cocks and 2 hens
Maverick-2 hens
7726 -1 cock and 2 hens
47187- 2 hens

That makes 18/32 birds direct children off my five best cock birds


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

You will see that 7726 is my best current breeding cock. He bred 2nd high points last year and a winner this year. I am breeding three of his same sex siblings off of 838 and 47192. Trying to emulate his success. Two will be bred to 7726s daughters (uncle x niece) the other to Charlotte. This is a (grandson x grandmother) pairing. This is where I implement line-breeding and in-line breeding into my system. When I put a winner back into my system, I pair them accordingly to what has worked in the past. When I run out of winner, I put same sex siblings in the system.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Rotondo and Heitzman always said that out of every set of young 1 was a racer and 1 was the breeder, Now they kept the best records of most every one, the only problem is by the time you find the 1 that is the racer you have lost the breeder.

When sending birds to an OLR do you breed early or late?
Dave


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I put my birds together Feb 1st. First round would go to OLR or futurities. Don't send many because of money.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I pre mated my birds the last 2 weeks and plan on turning on the lights this weekend. In the past I would only have 1 round and put them togeather in March, this year I'm going after older birds to send to band races and to 2 or 3 OLR's. My Fabry's seem to mature slow so I brought in a few hens in the hope to get them to mature a bit faster.
Dave


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

I got a question if you got two very good birds breeding very good young birds and you have about 8 good young birds from this pair would you let brother and sister breed?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

chayi said:


> I got a question if you got two very good birds breeding very good young birds and you have about 8 good young birds from this pair would you let brother and sister breed?


I have had 1 pair mate brother to sister with no luck but they did that on their own. However last year I got some Vandenabeele's in and a 1/2 brother and sister mated up, they were in reality full brother /sister but were from a different hatching, but I never let their young out so I don't know if they are any good or not. I guess from what I have been told and read I would stick to Father / Daughter pairing if the father is the prototype of what your looking for in your birds.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> My best cocks in my loft have been:
> 
> Kahunna, Ed, Maverick, 47167 and 7726. I have the following offspring breeding from these cocks.
> 
> ...


So in directly and at the cost of 10 years you have built a family of breeders around those 5 pigeons and if one died today you would have a close relative to takes its place. Probably not the worst way to go . 

I'm at a point with my loft ,where I want to see if I can be successful building a family of my own and have sons and grand sons which are 75 to 90 % equal to their father in genetic make up and ability. Something that can be carried on years down the road or am I doomed to be like many before me and just race other peoples work ? 

I will add that your method is much more scientific and mathematical than the way I do it now. When I got started and acquired birds from different people I would either mate them the way I got them or if I got 3 cocks from one flyer and 3 hens from another I would simply put them together and let them choose which BTW has given me some of my best pairings and top racers and that of course is some luck combined with the fact I was given with some quality birds to start with. 

So back the original topic which is about breeding , so we must agree that there are many roads to Rome and although I have little to no experience line breeding I still would like to hear other peoples experience.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

From what i have read and experienced you are just playing a guessing game with just cross breeding, (winner to winner). High Bred vigor is great but a one time thing.
Constituency only comes with a genetically close family.
As far as i am concerned winner to winner is one way, but it only lasts while the original breeders are alive. 
Line breeding takes the same winning blood and maintains it, or intensifies their qualities.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

LUCKYT said:


> From what i have read and experienced you are just playing a guessing game with just cross breeding, (winner to winner). High Bred vigor is great but a one time thing.
> Constituency only comes with a genetically close family.
> As far as i am concerned winner to winner is one way, but it only lasts while the original breeders are alive.
> Line breeding takes the same winning blood and maintains it, or intensifies their qualities.


If you look at the birds that am I breeding winner to winner to you will also see line breeding within the pairings. For example I bred Maverick my futurity winner with 922 a second place winner. He is off Kahuna and Cutiepie. She is off a son of ed and a sister of Maverick. This is a Uncle to niece breeding. Many of the Janssens pedigrees have aunt uncle to niece nephew breedings. One theory is to better the best bird that you have not just duplicate it. 7726 is my best current breeder. He is a third generation bird. Bred to a cousin on one side and a second cousin on the other. I have bettered my stock by breeding winner to winner within the same family of birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think there are two theories to single out your best genetics. Breed around a bird and cross him back into his granddaughters etc. Or you can keep all birds directly related to that single bird. The first will give you 75% of that bird. The latter will give every bird in the loft a percentage of his blood. When bringing in blood, I like to cross, race and bring back the best racers. 1072 is an example. He is 50% Kahuna and 50% 5415 (a race winner from Mark). He race twice in the top 10 with a 3rd. Bred him back to a hen down from Kahuna. The offspring are 62.5% Kahuna and crossed out with 25% 54 blood. This method increased the percentage of the foundation bird Kahuna while also infusing hybrid vigor and putting a tested racer in my program. You do not always have to breed grandfather to granddaughter in increase genetic percentage.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

The pairing 1072 and 7781 this year bred:
9th at 105m
7th at 147m
21st at 200m
1st at 250m
15th at 200m

Not bad for playing the guessing game with pairing good racers.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

LUCKYT said:


> The only way over the long haul to win consistently, and have a family IS to line breed. *the problem I have with just breeding winner to winner is the number of winners you get is not consistent.* You are not Breeding up just level.
> I guess I am different, I found it much more enjoyable to be able to say this bird that did good is 8th Gen. from my stock.
> Rotondo was successful through line breeding, but even went way farther by inbreeding. I have done both in many types of livestock.
> Inbreeding, unless an outside blood line is added now and then is a dead end.
> Line Breeding, and only adding a worthy Bird, that fits, when size and vigor starts to decrease (which happens fairly soon in inbreeding, not so much with careful line breeding)) seems to me to produce higher quality, and more consistently winning Show and Performance Birds/livestock. JMHO


Exactly. ^^^^

I can't say that I've done this with every pair in my loft, but I can say that it is my _goal_ for every pair to be like this:

*Cock: 1166* - He is an AU Registered Champion having raced in the GHC against very tough competition. He is line bred, the product of an uncle x niece mating. A very high percentage of his siblings are equally good or better racers, as are his cousins, etc. Perhaps even more important, his siblings are breeding equally successful racers at high percentages. This tells me that this line is potent for racing and breeding, so my odds of reproducing the same are in my favor. To boot, he is a physically perfect specimen.

*Hen: 1947* - She is also a successful racer having also competed in very tough competition in the GHC and FSI. Four siblings in the same year scored and a sister was 14th Champion YB GHC club. She has proven herself to be statistically my best hen as a breeder so far. She has bred multiple outright club and combine winners for me and for others and multiple ACE birds while being mated to two different cocks. *She shares the same blood as the cock mentioned above (1166)*. 

They both have performance. They are both line bred, although the hen a little more lightly than the cock. The hen is a proven breeder. They both are nearly identical in physical qualities. I have a hard time telling the two apart. 

My expectations are, based on *both* performance and fairly tight genetics, is that they will breed clones of themselves. If I had taken either of these birds and crossed them to another "winner" of an unrelated family, I truly believe my percentages and predictability would go way down. I may get lucky, but I don't want to bet on luck. I also believe that the babies wouldn't be uniform and it would just be hit and miss. (I've crossed other birds in years past and I get nests with one HUGE bird and one small bird and they look and act nothing alike. It's clear that the genetics were unstable and unpredictable).

Looking ahead, if one of their babies turns out to be exceptional, then I would bring it back into the breeding program. And with it being line bred, I would have all kinds of options - and yes, including crossing it into another line bred "winner" from another family if my overall program had room for that.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

kastle
Are you stocking offspring of 1166 or 1947? One of my strategies and one that is further down my criteria list is in-line breeding. Or stocking same sex siblings off of my best. For example sons of my Ed bird. All but one that I have stocked have produced a winner. This also puts my chances of bringing back winners also to be genetically fit for the family. I am breaking up my older foundation pair of Ed and charlotte this year to breed them back with grandchildren this year. Not every egg has been filled in the last few years and I am wanting to solidify the line. Stocking hens off of 1166 might just find you a grandson that is a spitting image of 1166 in race and form.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Luckyt, line breeding is a form of inbreeding just to clarify.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

"My expectations are, based on both performance and fairly tight genetics, is that they will breed clones of themselves. If I had taken either of these birds and crossed them to another "winner" of an unrelated family, I truly believe my percentages and predictability would go way down. I may get lucky, but I don't want to bet on luck. I also believe that the babies wouldn't be uniform and it would just be hit and miss. (I've crossed other birds in years past and I get nests with one HUGE bird and one small bird and they look and act nothing alike. It's clear that the genetics were unstable and unpredictable)."

David , sometimes even with inbred birds when you out cross 2 inbred lines you will get big boned heavy build birds that are the product of the hybrid vigor and usually not good for much , this is one flaw no body talks about with crossings . Many of my babies last year had one big baby and one small one, which was not very consistence in my book either. I'm sure it doesn't happen very often with a good family but it is possible.

On a different note your 1166 sounds like the perfect cock bird to build from . It has all the qualities of a "STUD COCK" and a foundation quality bird. He is from a line with a proven traceable history of tight breeding, and he has proven himself in tough race conditions , and as you put it almost prefect in conformation. I would breed him to as many of your producer hens you can and test the male babies harder but lightly train and fly the girls babies so you have the best of them for future mating back to the 1166 cock to continue his line.

One thing about the basket is you can loose good birds as well as bad ones.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well, there is a big difference between line breeding and inbreeding.
They are the same only, if you do not understand the process. 
Line Breeding relatives is no were near the same as inbreeding, you stay close, but not to close.

In traditional inbreeding you keep going more closely until you see negative results, or superior results. Big difference
ALL breeding programs in almost all live stock are based on some form of line breeding.
In fact, in show and performance Livestock, you are not as likely to win on a consistent basis with out line breeding. Since it produces more of the Stock with the Good traits you strive for. 
AND a lot of breeders are line breeding and do not even know that is what they are doing.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

CHAPTER 6.
USING INBREEDING TO IMPROVE GROWTH AND OTHER PHENOTYPES

A farmer or hatchery manager who wants to manage the genetic aspects of his population must know how inbreeding can be used to improve productivity and profits. Inbreeding is one of the three major traditional breeding programmes that breeders have used for centuries to improve animals and plants. While it is not as important as selection or crossbreeding, inbreeding is used to produce genetically improved livestock, plants, and laboratory animals. Inbreeding might be the most important breeding technique used in the production of laboratory animals, because genetically uniform lines of rats, mice, etc. are desired for biological and medical research.

Inbreeding will never be as important in animal husbandry as it is in agronomy, because many plants can be self-fertilized; it is easy to create matings by artificial pollination; and many individuals can be raised cheaply in a small plot. However, inbreeding has been used to create better, faster growing livestock, and new technologies have improved our ability to create and use highly inbred fish to improve a population or for research purposes. Inbreeding programmes should be far easier with fish than with livestock, because many species can be stripped, which enables fish culturists to create mating combinations livestock farmers can only imagine. Additionally, fish are highly fecund when compared to livestock, so different types of inbreeding programmes can be used.

In order to use an inbreeding programme to improve productivity and profits, a farmer or hatchery manager must understand how inbreeding works and what it does. The genetics of inbreeding was discussed in Chapter 2, and the techniques that are used to calculate individual inbreeding values were outlined in Chapter 3. This chapter will explain how inbreeding can be used to improve populations by itself, or how inbreeding can be combined with selection and crossbreeding to improve growth rate and other phenotypes. Finally, regular systems of inbreeding that can be used to produce inbred fish for breeding programmes are described.

Those who are not interested in learning how inbreeding programmes can be used to improve a population but only want to learn how to prevent unwanted inbreeding can skip this chapter and go to Chapter 7.

INBREEDING PROGRAMMES

Although selection and crossbreeding are the breeding programmes that are usually considered when plans are made to improve a population genetically, inbreeding is a third option that can be used to produce good results. Inbreeding is generally shunned because it is a two-edged sword that can mortally wound a population. However, when used properly, inbreeding can be an effective and efficient breeding programme. In general, inbreeding programmes are used when you have superior animals. If you inbreed average animals, you produce average animals. But if you inbreed superior animals, you can create outstanding animals.

Some of the ways inbreeding programmes can be used are described in this section.

Creation of new breeds

Inbreeding is often used when a new breed, strain, or variety is founded. In many cases it is inevitable and unavoidable. New breeds can be formed as the result of a fortuitous hybrid, or they can originate from a single individual with an unusual or desirable phenotype, as was the case with the Morgan horse, an American breed founded by a stallion named Justin Morgan. When breeds are new and small, inbreeding is inevitable. When breeds or strains are first created, there may be only a few males in the breed, and one is considered to be far superior to all others. When this happens, that male is bred to many females and to a good percentage of his daughters and granddaughters in order to produce a population of animals that resembles him. This is how a breed “type” (a particular body conformation) is created. A second round of inbreeding can occur if only one or two of the male's sons are used. When the size of the breed increases, inbreeding will be less important, but it is the breeding technique that is often used to develop a new breed or strain that breeds true for type.

Linebreeding

Linebreeding is an inbreeding programme whereby an individual is mated to its descendants. Traditionally, a single male is bred to many females. Most linebreeding programmes that are used in livestock husbandry only linebreed males, because fecundity is low and gestation periods are long. However, in aquaculture the fecundity of fish should enable farmers and hatchery managers to use females as well as males in linebreeding programmes.

Linebreeding can be used when the breed is in its infancy to develop the breed, or it can also be used in an established breed or strain when an outstanding animal is discovered. Linebreeding is used to increase an outstanding individual's contribution to a population, especially when a farmer thinks that the animal is so superior that it is unlikely that he will ever find a better one.

Linebreeding is used by many livestock farmers, even when they say that they do not want inbred animals. Linebreeding is often not considered to be inbreeding, because the major goal is not to produce inbred animals but to increase an outstanding individual's contribution to the population and to succeeding generations. However, this will occur only because linebreeding is inbreeding.

Even if inbreeding reaches fairly high levels in a population, if the inbreeding is planned it can be used to produce outstanding individuals, and linebreeding is an inbreeding programme that is designed to accomplish that goal. Inbreeding depression is a measure of the population, not of an individual. Inbreeding depression is the difference between the mean of the inbred group and the mean of a control population with no inbreeding. Since inbreeding depression is a populational value, it represents the average value, which means an individual with a high level of inbreeding can be outstanding. If a breeder linebreeds a superior male only with superior females, this programme can quickly produce a superior population.

Linebreeding is the breeding programme that is needed if a farmer wants to keep the relationship of the next generation with a particular ancestor at a high level. The genetic contribution that a fish makes to a population is halved each generation: 50% in its offspring, 25% in its grandchildren, 12.5% in its great-grandchildren, etc. After seven generations, a fish contributes less than 1% of its descendants' genes. Linebreeding is the breeding programme that can be used to reverse this trend. For example, if a fish is mated with its grandchildren (the offspring would be both its great-grandchildren and its children), its contribution to those offspring would rise would rise from the normal value of 12.5% to 62.5%.

If the male that is being linebred mates only once or twice with his descendants, the linebreeding is considered to be mild linebreeding (Figure 19). If the male that is being linebred is repeatedly mated to his female descendants or is mated to them using a regular pattern, the linebreeding is considered to be intense linebreeding (Figure 20).

Intense linebreeding is a pre-biotechnology breeding programme that can be used to create a “near clone.” By repeatedly mating a male to his female descendants a farmer can create an “almost identical” genetic twin of the male. For example, in Figure 20, 93.75% of individual G's genes come from individual A.

If anyone want to read the entire article I'll post a link


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Another man's view, another man's opinion.


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## hollywoodlou (Mar 3, 2013)

*INBREEDING/Linebreeding*

Eric K can you post the link to the entire article

Thank you


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

for some reason I can't get the link to work but I have the entire article saved on my computer . I guess I could send it to you some how. The web site I found the article on originally is the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations / Fisheries & Aquaculture Department. The title is Inbreeding and Brood Stock Management.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I thought the concept of line breeding was building a relation ship. Where the birds were Not close related at all. And you were starting down the line. Say using a prepotent bird To build with. Then inbreeding was a tighter line Bringing the relationship closer setting the desired traits. In which It works better in show type birds. Then race bred. But can be a tool. To often as you see today People are inbreeding fast to get closer to a past bird found in the pedigree. AND any breeding should have purpose. But inbreeding must have purpose Not just going fast to get relation ship. Breed from quality And understand you need to try twice First with direct children then grand children. as some times you find the grandchildren are the ones that Can and Do breed the winners. So selecting best OF that pair To work with gives a start. But anytime using line breeding OR inbreeding use it only as a tool. And remember A small percent of birds are raised each year that are the future. as most will not be useable in your program. I liked the idea of 10 out of 100. BUT some years you find just 1. Depends on your needs for your loft.I think more people need to go back to flying young bird and old bird to select there birds better That way you have at least 3 year old birds to choose from when you add to the Breeding loft. an then unless it is a prepotent bird remove pairs after 3 years of breeding Because if the have raised as good as them you do not need them. If they have raised better then them you do not need them. and if they have not raised any that are near as good as them you do not need them. BUT this is just Words As you should have your ideas also.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Line Breed = breed along family lines to set desired traits, close but as to avoid problems associated with intense inbreeding. (weakness, frills, chest culls, poor hatches ect.

Inbreeding= The practice, (at least in the old way) is of mating closely related Family Members, in hopes of quickly locking in or intensifying a desired Trait or traits, 
The sad point about Inbreeding is, it also intensifies faults, causing the need to CULL an amazing amount........READ ROTUNDO...........Who culled even by his own words an amazing amount.......
IN LINE BREEDING A FAIRLY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.... BUT NOT TO CLOSE


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Its a bad link. but for me it does not matter. I know what line breeding, and inbreeding is.
I have been Line breeding in one form or another since i started breeding Show Livestock ... about 45 years ago. thanks for the link tho.....


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

In the last pigeon digest their is a small article about in-line breeding. Which they term the using of the hens off a desired cock and the cocks off a desired hen. I have seen correlation and results using this method. Same sex siblings tend to breed better. Another term would be sex-linkage for this process. One tool in the arsenal that I use when selecting further down my criteria.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> kastle
> *Are you stocking offspring of 1166 or 1947? *One of my strategies and one that is further down my criteria list is in-line breeding. Or stocking same sex siblings off of my best. For example sons of my Ed bird. All but one that I have stocked have produced a winner. This also puts my chances of bringing back winners also to be genetically fit for the family. I am breaking up my older foundation pair of Ed and charlotte this year to breed them back with grandchildren this year. Not every egg has been filled in the last few years and I am wanting to solidify the line. Stocking hens off of 1166 might just find you a grandson that is a spitting image of 1166 in race and form.


I don't plan to stock them just for the sake of stocking them for breeding. I will test 8 of their babies this year. If one or more has a spectacular year then I will consider bringing it back into the breeding program. That will fit my criteria of having both results and line-breeding.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Still working on my in-line sex linkage breeding philosophy. I did something interesting tonight. I followed all of my worthy of breeding birds and sex lined them back to my foundation birds. In other words I went daughter to Father to grandmother etc back to my foundation. I was looking for that one key bird in regards to in-line sex linkage breeding. Not sure how much it has merit, but wanted to know. I used 33 birds. I found the following. 
5415 3
5416 1
CutiePie	5
Tiger 7
Charlotte	9
Ed 3
Big Bertha	2
Kahuna	3


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

9 Birds were linked back to Charlotte. She is my full Janssen bird off two Ganus birds bred from four birds purchased from the Janssen brothers. I then sex lined her back 5 generations to "019". Fun stuff. 

7 Birds were linked to my Tiger. I linked him 4 generations back to Engles 1 national Argenton and 1st national Brive Winner. 3 generations back to the Hen De Dikke was bred to. 

Next was Cutie Pie with 5 lined birds. Here sister Big Bertha had 2 linked birds. 7 total. Bob Kinney birds go back two generations to first at 300 and three generations to combine winner and sire of 1sts. 

Eds 3 linked birds get back to Almost Perfect and Joseys Doll from Vic Miller in 3 generations.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Gives me an idea of which birds have the most influence on the line. Wonder if you just sex link all your birds back to the top couple if that would make your family stronger. Still Working on my strategy here. Maybe time to study the greats pedigrees. Next I am going to take my best four or five racers and sex link them and see if I find a correlation. Give everyone something to think about.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Blood lines our not, I truly believe the right trainer/handler, with half way descent Birds can level the field.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Followed Kahuna back 3 generations to DeKlack via Ganus. Not sure what power to put behind sex linkage but I have some statistics to go on. May give it merit if I am breeding for stock or bringing a winner in with the bloodline and looking which bird to breed it to. Want to study my first place winner and sex link them back.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Blood lines our not, I truly believe the right trainer/handler, with half way descent Birds can level the field.
__________________


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Now the question: Do you breed by sex linkage, race by crosses? Now you see why I breed winner to winner within a line.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

LUCKYT said:


> Blood lines our not, I truly believe the right trainer/handler, with half way descent Birds can level the field.
> __________________


I agree with you 100% here. My only problem/benefit is that I do not get to race my own birds. That side is out of my hands. All I can do is look at statistics. I do know good handlers have been successful with what I have given them. This would be a lot easier if I flew my own team. Could be a blessing or a curse. If I was a great flier, my birds would look better than they are, If I sucked they would look much worse. A bad flier with great birds is still a bad flier.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I agree with you 100% here. My only problem/benefit is that I do not get to race my own birds. That side is out of my hands. All I can do is look at statistics. I do know good handlers have been successful with what I have given them. This would be a lot easier if I flew my own team. Could be a blessing or a curse. If I was a great flier, my birds would look better than they are, If I sucked they would look much worse. A bad flier with great birds is still a bad flier.


 Very well said!


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

One more tool if you have the time and a super cock bird. 
Bull System Made Easy
by Nigel Cowood

There has been much talk lately about the advantages of using a stud sire with lots of different hens. It would be truthful to say that many lofts house great pre-potent cocks capable of siring class quality offspring that win out of turn. It would be a great idea to get as many young from that one cock as possible, all aged to within a week of each other, thus starting life in the young bird section as a team.

This can be quite easily done, and the results can transform your yearly performances dramatically. The number of young obtainable from the stud sire in one round depends on what you wish to put into it. I successfully bred 10 young on my very first attempt, all weaned off together. On my second attempt I used a lot more hens (12) and weaned off a full round of 24 young, all half brother/sisters, all from the one single cock, using no more than an ordinary 12 ft x 8ft stock loft or section. Utilizing 12 hens; It is a good suggestion that the hens to be used have already laid and reared previously. The loft was fitted out with 12 ordinary widowhood nestboxes. (Just about any type of nestbox can be used so long as it is impossible for a cock to get in and tread the hen.)

I then selected on paper the hens in which I wanted to use. The twist here came at this point, as the cocks that were going to be paired to these hens to rear the young as there own would also be the sire's to the 2nd round of eggs. So when selecting which cock goes to which hen make sure you are thinking ahead, as the 2nd round young will also be (as individuals) half brother/sister to the first round off each hen.

The loft itself should be fitted with an aviary where the cocks can be locked out when the time comes. I fitted a simple 4ft x 2ft wire aviary and tacked an old curtain to the inside that could be dropped and secured with household drawing pins. In the aviary I placed a drinker and grit & mineral pots. So you have your pairings worked out and it is time to introduce the 12 cocks to there nestboxes. It does not matter which box they take, just allow enough time for them to get settled in. It is also a good idea to lock them into the aviary a couple of times to get them used to the idea.



DAY 1



On the day you are ready to proceed make sure that the hens have been well fed and watered. It will work a little better if you introduce the hens later rather than earlier in the day. Feed & lock the cocks into the aviary then place the hens in the locked half of the nestboxes of their selected cocks. If the hens are fit and ready to pair they will tell you so without a cock being present. It is a good sign that things will go easy when the hens are very amorous.

With the hens secure in their half of the box allow the cocks into the loft. They perform there usual stuff with plenty of billing between the bars of the partitioned box. There is not a chance that the cock can tread the hen. Leave the birds like this until morning.

Now is a good time for pen and paper, so make sure that you have a clipboard or such in the loft, with the ring numbers and box numbers for all the hens laid out. This will help you re-place the hens into the correct boxes until they are fully versed and keep good records of the days to come.



DAY 2



The first thing that I check as I walk in the loft is that all the hens are still in their boxes, none having escaped previously. This will be the first item on the agenda every morning for the next few days. If any hens have escaped it is not a problem at this stage but you must remedy the situation and prevent it happening again as it is vital to the purpose of your programme. Feed the cocks and lock them in the aviary with their own drinker. Once secure you can allow the hens freedom of the loft to eat and drink, pickstones etc. As each hen returns to a box (hopefully its own) lock her in. When all the hens are back in their boxes let the cocks come back in. you will get a feel for how things are going at this point. The cocks should rush to their boxes spinning and cooing. Repeat this again at some stage of the day, allowing the hens a chance to stretch their wings, eat & drink and find their own box. You can also fit little drinkers to the nestbox if you wish.



DAY 3 and DAY 4



Exactly the same as day 2.



DAY 5



This is the day to introduce the stud cock. The cock I used was 10 years old and I thought this could be a problem, but it turned out to be quite the opposite. This system can work with a cock that is already paired or sitting but you will get quicker results if he is un-paired.

Feed the cocks and lock them in the aviary. Release the hens to eat & drink etc. Lock all hens back in box. Bring in the stud cock and release him into the loft, he will strut his stuff and the hens will respond from the boxes. Allow the stud cock to roam around, he will fly upto many of the hens introducing himself. They will all respond to his attentions. After 10/15 mins release the hen from the first nest box, in no time at all she will get down for the cock. As soon as the deed is done get the hen back in her nest box and remove the cock. Mark down on your record sheet a note alongside the hens ring number that this occurred. Place the stud cock back in his own section. Rest for 30 mins and repeat with the 2nd hen. No need to allow the stud cock time to get his bearings, just place him in the section and release the next hen. Copulation will be swift, the chances are that all the hens saw the first procedure and are now competing with each other. Remove the stud cock and re-place the hen. Repeat this every 30 mins to cover the first 6 hens. Then give the stud cock a couple of hours rest, re-starting later in the day with the last 6 hens. Don't forget to mark down each hen in turn. If one of the hens refuses to mate make a note of it as she will be the first one the next day. When all is done make sure all the hens are secure and allow the cocks back into the loft from the aviary, they are none the wiser.



DAY 6



If all went well the previous day, do exactly the same procedure but this time in reverse, starting with the hen that was last the day before. Not forgetting that the hens must be well fed etc. before you commence.



DAY 7



Exactly the same procedure as day 6.



DAY 8



Now depending on the hens you are using you could be getting eggs at this stage. If so, I suggest you concentrate on any hen that has not laid as it is my experience that once the hen has laid she will have nothing more to do with the stud cock, (sounds about right!!) Carry on with the procedure until all the hens have laid. But be warned, I have never known a hen that has already laid her 1st egg to allow the stud cock to tread her again, so the theory of 2nd egg fertilisation needs looking at.

At this stage I allow all the cocks into the loft (but no contact) whenever possible to see that their hens have laid. As soon as the hen lays her 2nd egg I open the box and allow the cock to enter. Many of them rush in and instantly sit the eggs, no matter what time of day it is. Once all the hens have laid you can treat the section with ordinary everyday management. The cocks will have no problem believing that the eggs are their own and will sit normally. Let them sit 4/5 days and then check the eggs are full. If you find that any are infertile you can check your records to see if there is a reason for this. When I used 12 hens every single egg hatched using just this method, ending up with 24 young birds that all resembled each other in various ways. If you paired up correctly in the first place you will now be able to let these cocks and hens lay a 2nd round in the normal fashion.

I agree this method can take up some time, but the wise amongst you will plan this carefully to fall on a weekend or a holiday. It is well worth the trouble and does not take up any more time in respect of days.

I just had this published in the British Homing World and thought it could be of interest to others.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I wanted to bring up the post so I can have some record of my results from year to year somewhere besides my spreadsheets. I also want to throw out my results from year to year for others to help me analyze. 

I started this year sending 26 birds down to race in the ABQ club. Of those 7 did not make the first race. They are from 10 breeding pairs. I narrowed down my pairs a bit this year. 

19 birds flown:
Of those 26 birds, I had zero 1st place winners (I did have 4 separate birds equal first on the drop)
0-1st Place (4 on drop)
6-Top 1st-10th Place 23%
8-Top 10% 31%
11-Points birds 42%

Best Pairs this year
1311 x 45897 bred and flew 3 birds two finished top 10s
490 x 489 bred 4 birds 4 bred all flew 3 of the 4 had top 10s
798 x 1002 bred 4 flew 3 two flew well one had top 10 one top 10%

My breeding goals are to have every pair and bird in the loft have either bred a winner or at least a top 10 bird or two. After this year, all 20 birds but one in the program fits that criteria. The lone bird finished 2nd from 175miles as a young bird seconds out of 1st and flew well. So she has a top 10 place finish. I will mate her differently next year. 

The club raced 10 races. Having only 19 birds spread over 7 or so fliers does not make for me taking the first 10 places in every race, but considering that I had no more than say 3 birds per flier my placings in each race were not to bad. Races ranged from 100 birds to 300 birds. 

Race Finish
1-11th
2-2nd on drop
3-10th,11th,16th
4-3rd on drop
5-39th, 45th
6-8th,10th,14th
7-2nd on drop, 31st,33rd
8-8th
9-3rd on drop, 19th
10- one bird was sent to 400 finished 25th next day only one day bird

7 of 10 races I had a top 10 bird. The four on drop birds were 9,10,4 and 14 seconds out of the win respectively. In other words 4 races I had birds land with the winner. Don't know if fast trapping can be bred into birds. I need to work on trap linkage birds if it can.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Two pair that bred winners in the last few years bred poorly this year. One pair is getting a bit old and I think I need to split them up. 

The other pair has been my best breeders the last two years. The problem with them is the cock is not that dominant and they loose eggs or do not fertilize the first round do to fighting etc. I think I will move them nesting sections this year. 

922 my only bird without breeding a top 10 will get a new mate this year. I sent her cock to breed in ABQ so it is inevitable she gets a new mate. I have an older cock that did not breed this year that has produced a second high points bird that I think I will try her with. Get a few more out of him. 

Things to work on with my family is some consistency. I did have good results at the sprint races compared to my past results. I contribute that to bringing in Ace's 54 blood via some closed and 489 x 490 pair that is breeding. They are a hell of a sprint family. 

I will breed and keep a few birds off my best pairs this year to bring back into my program. It is time to narrow my family a bird and bring in some younger breeders to replace a few aging birds. I will do this by brining in sex linked birds that are siblings of my top racing birds from the pairs.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One thing I did do this year was pair up my 1311 x 45897 after separating them for a few years. They have had good results in the past but could not produce me a winner. 1311 is my futurity winner so I wanted better out of him. This year the two birds that hit for them out of 3 flown, one has an 8th and 10th, the other a 2nd and 11th. The 8th, 10th bird also had a 33rd and 45th and should be a points bird in say the top 20 this year. 

They have bred my top breeding hen the last few years. Leading me to believe this is the direction I need to be concentrating on.They are all down from my main family. I am thinking of separating and developing two distinct families. The sprinter 54s and my Hillfamily. I thought about working the 54s into mine but in conversation with ACE and seeing their results we are seeing them fall off after 250 miles. I crossed them in with my Kahuna side of my family to give them stronger 300 results, but 160 was the furthest they gave me a top 10. I want more than 10 birds from that family to assess. 

I may set up some pumper pairs and breed a few rounds from 489 x 490 to breed back in to start that family. 
I will do the same with my 1311 family taking from his pair and his daughters pair. 

A two year plan being 5 pairs of 54s and 10 pairs from my Hill family. All around my best pairs.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

489 & 490 are 3/4 Top Gun loft speed stock and 1/4 your blood. I have very little of this blood any more because they top out at around 200 miles. 

My loft has gone to the 300 & 350 mile birds now by crossing Your blood with The HVR and two daughters of 620. If you want I will send a few of their young your way this year. At this time they are solid 300 and now crossing to get the solid 350s out of them.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I have crossed a few offspring of 5415 x Kahunna in with my bloodlines and it has upped the distance to the 250 mark. I did have one finish not too bad on the 300. They are definitely a speed family. It does fill a niche in the ABQ races. I am now competitive at the 100 - 150 mile races which are a good number of the races for the club. One reason I want to keep them separate from my family is I want to keep the integrity of my family 250-350 strong. My goals being as I do not have tons of money to throw at one loft races is to win race in the club and high points birds. Not sure I want to bring in any birds currently. If I do the 620 bloodline will be my first choice.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Would like to see how they do in the ABQ club. Maybe we can make arrangements for you to get some there way.


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