# Help! Pigeons on my doormat!



## gingerpch

Hi there;
I was out of town for three weeks, and I came home to find that a pigeon couple has made a nest on my doormat! It is outside of my apartment door, inside my apartment building. They are getting in and out through the hall window, which is left open. 
The parents are dutifully sitting on their eggs, and while they used to hop to the side when I entered or exited the apartment, now they seem comfortable enough to just look at me. There is not a lot of traffic, as I live on the 5th floor.
I am worried for their safety--any thoughts? My building super doesn't seem to mind, but there are dogs and cats in the building a few floors down. How do I help this family? Can I put their nest in a box? Can I move it to a safer place? I would like to move it next to the window that they are getting in and out of--can I do this without the parents abandoning the nest?
Additionally, when these eggs hatch, I'm sure it's going to be an unholy mess--any thoughts on how to keep the area clean? Without accidentally poisoning them, that is?
Obviously, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Thanks so much for any advice!
Emily


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## Pixy

Wow! What a suprise! Maybe deep down inside your a pigeon person and they know that  Well all i can say is keep the dogs and cats away! Im sure they will not hesitate to attack the poor pidgies! As to any other suggestions... you might want to get some palstic, cardboard, or better yet. Get a large old beach towel and cut a toilet paper sized hole(full role that is) in the middle of it and at night when it is real dark, put the towel hole over the parent sitting at that time, so that you wont have to lift anything up(eggs or door mat) and you can keep those big pigeon poopies off of that section of your floor and when the babies hatch also! Others wil have suggestions too.


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## Lovebirds

Oh my goodness......our little friends can pick the darndest places to put a nest. This one is just about the best we've seen here in a while. One thing you are right about, unless you clean every day, there will be a bit of a mess there, especially after about two weeks. Geez.........well, one thing, you can't move the nest, I don't think that the parents will take to that very kindly. It would be nice if they would surprise us and let you move them, but it doesn't normally work. The only way you MIGHT move it, is to move mat and all about a foot per day. But even then, thing is, if they don't let you do this, they may abandon the nest/eggs and/or babies. I think my first suggestion would be to candle one of the eggs and see if they are viable. Hate to say it, but for once it would be great if the eggs were duds. Hopefully someone will be along shortly with more suggestions.


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## TAWhatley

Hi Emily and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. Well, I think you have a first for us with unusual nesting places chosen by pigeons.  

If you do move the eggs and "nest", the parents will most likely abandon it. I think our first step is for you to do what is called candle the eggs to see if there in an embryo growing in one or both eggs. If the eggs are not yet showing any embryo development, then you can dispose of the eggs and the nesting material with an easy conscience. If there is embryo growth in the eggs, then you will have a more difficult choice to make. 

I really can't see the apartment management tolerating a pigeon family for the amount of time it would take for the babies to be grown and flying (5+ weeks). Even if you waited until the eggs hatched and then tried to move the little family to a more appropriate location outside, there is a very good chance that the parents would still abandon the babies.

So, I think we need to candle the eggs and hope that there isn't anything going on in there. You would do this by taking the eggs into a dark room or closet and shining a flashlight through the eggs. If you do not see any spidery veins (embryo developing) or a solid mass that the light doesn't pass through (that would mean an almost developed embryo) then the eggs have not yet started to develop. If you search here on Pigeon-Talk for "candle" or "candling", you will find lots more information. 

Please let us know what the candling shows.

Could you please let us know where you are located in case we might have someone local that could assist if needed?

Terry


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## TAWhatley

Forgot to mention that once the situation is resolved, the building management should really consider installing a screen or other barrier on that window to prevent future wild tenants of a non-human variety.

Terry


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## flitsnowzoom

*Location, location, location is everything in real estate*

What better place to nest than high up on a lovely carpeted area with perfect weather?  
I love the minimalist nest -- you must have some Zen birds there  
I don't have any advice but I love the beautiful bird and their nest.


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## Charis

Great pictures, Emily.
Gave me a good chuckle.


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## MellissaG

I find it pretty amusing to note that it seems every wild pigeon nest ive seen, they have managed to collect at least one qtip for the mix. 

I agree with moving the next every day a few inches until it is safe. But stick to a routine. A set time during the daylight. Id say in the morning? Since youll have to scare off the squatter for the time being to move it a little, doing it in the morning gives them plenty of time to come back to the eggs before night.

Your other option would be to wait until they hatch, and the parents stop sitting on them 24/7.. (i think around 2 weeks?) .. but by then, itll be messy and crowded and noisy. 

Hopefully you dont care about the mat too much (or at least for the next 2 months) , and can just move that all together with the nest/eggs on top of it so you dont disturb them too much, and just scoot it along.

Or, with risk of triggering a really pissed off pigeon, put a laundry basket or box over top of a parent while they are sitting on the nest, and move the whole thing as is -- maybe that way, with the parent going WITH the nest..he/she will easily be able to find their way back to the nest in its new spot (hopefully only a few feet away.. like just outside the window, or something. Perhaps leaving the box with the mat, and turning it on its side to give some shelter outside the window.

hmm. 

Worst comes to worst, and the parents stop incubating the eggs for more than 2 days (or so? not sure how long someone should wait for this..) and take them in yourself, if it seems they have been abandoned. Local wildlife centers, etc, (research them first. Usually they have a list of how many and what kind of animals they do take in) usually do care for pigeons.


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## gingerpch

Wow, thanks everyone. 
I am in NYC--in Inwood (upper Manhattan). To answer some questions, the Mom is on the nest a lot of the time (I work 9-5-ish, and see her mostly in the morning and when I get home at night). The pictures are of the Dad (I think) which were taken by a friend of mine during the day.
I have not seen the eggs without the mother sitting on them, so I'm a bit concerned about the candling process. This seems like it might make Mama very upset. 
In other pigeon family news, a neighbor has been putting out rice for them, which I have tried to clean up as best I can--I've heard that dried rice is not good for them, is this true? Mama did not get off her nest but did a little wing slapping and huffing while I cleaned. She's still there, I didn't frighten her off. I've put out some water and a crushed up cracker to try and deter her from the rice (which she doesn't seem particularly interested in, and I can't quite clean up without really stressing her out). I am going to get some birdseed tomorrow.
The window that I want to put them near is down a flight of stairs, so I think this might be too far to move the nest (yes, with doormat and all--I've made peace with the fact that the doormat is now property of the pigeon family).
As far as cleaning, the towel idea is great, as is the newspaper.
I will keep you posted! Any other thoughts are very much appreciated. This is really something, I can't quite believe it--I just hope it doesn't end in tragedy.
Thanks!
Emily
ps. My super knows about this, and said "It seems like good luck". Right?


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## MellissaG

OMG AHHH

I didnt even read the rest of it

but AHHH

Clean up the rice right now lol

If it is uncooked, the fluids inside the birds body will saturate the rice and essentially imploding the bird.

You can go to a convenience store, and on the pet isle where they have cat food and stuff there are usually small boxes of budge and canary seeds for a couple bucks (under $5 for sure)


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## MellissaG

lol Ok I read the rest, and not 3 words after you were already doing it. lol. Yeah, whew. Get that rice away.

And im not sure it would be too far to move the nest, if it is the path the birds travel to get to and from the nest anyway. Just as long as its along the path they go anyway, theyll figure it out. 

good luck


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## flitsnowzoom

gingerpch said:


> In other pigeon family news, a neighbor has been putting out rice for them, which I have tried to clean up as best I can--I've heard that dried rice is not good for them, is this true? Mama did not get off her nest but did a little wing slapping and huffing while I cleaned. She's still there, I didn't frighten her off. I've put out some water and a crushed up cracker to try and deter her from the rice (which she doesn't seem particularly interested in, and I can't quite clean up without really stressing her out). I am going to get some birdseed tomorrow.
> The window that I want to put them near is down a flight of stairs, so I think this might be too far to move the nest (yes, with doormat and all--I've made peace with the fact that the doormat is now property of the pigeon family).
> As far as cleaning, the towel idea is great, as is the newspaper.
> I will keep you posted! Any other thoughts are very much appreciated. This is really something, I can't quite believe it--I just hope it doesn't end in tragedy.
> Thanks!
> Emily
> ps. My super knows about this, and said "It seems like good luck". Right?


The rice won't kill them but bird seed is best. Be sure and put some water out in a dish at least an inch or 2 deep. If you can keep the nest near its current location that's the best. Going down that flight of stairs might confuse these folks (if they're like people parents, once the baby's perking, the mind starts to go  ) and they may abandon the nest. Plus the additional threat of more traffic and the resident 4-legged beasties might cause real trouble for the pidgies, and there might not be people as understanding of the pigeons as you and your neighbor seem to be. It's nice that your super thought it was good luck.

There's plenty of reading on this site to help you know "what to expect when you are expecting" (to steal a title of a well-known book).


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## Flying_Pidgy

i was thinking, if that male bird lets you come near it and if it is " wild" that seems alittle suspicious, especially after looking at the coloring. Could you somehow get close enough to check if there is a band on the birds foot? if there is , that bird belongs to someone somewhere.


also (asking other people), why is rice a bad thing? is it really bad?


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## alvin

Flying_Pidgy said:


> i was thinking, if that male bird lets you come near it and if it is " wild" that seems alittle suspicious, especially after looking at the coloring. Could you somehow get close enough to check if there is a band on the birds foot? if there is , that bird belongs to someone somewhere.
> 
> 
> also (asking other people), why is rice a bad thing? is it really bad?


Kind of an old wives tale there. Believe me, Pijies can burp. And sneeze, and cough and recite Shakespere....Oh, ok, maybe not that, but you get what I mean. Rice does not make them explode.

Rice is just not very nutritious for the pijie. With birdseed, they get a mix of grains with different vitamins, minerals etc.


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## Skyeking

H Emily,

Thank you for your care and concern over these birds and eggs.

That is quite an odd place for a nest, and a gorgeous pigeon on the nest. 

I would bet these eggs are probably fertile and probably have embryo's in them (you probably wouldn't be able to see anything if they are past seven days of incubation-if you candle them), and I would certainly slide the door mat over to the side where it is safest from wind and rain and somewhat draft proof, if you haven't done so. 

I don't know how safe your porch is, but I would go ahead and accept the fact that eggs will probably hatch, and hopefully nothing else will come inside the window other then mom and dad.

Thank you for giving them room and board until their kids hatch and grow up and fly away. 

Please keep us updated on the situation.


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## MellissaG

well at least there wont be any exploding pigeons  I was always told otherwise. 

So then if rice just 'isnt healthy', im assuming you mean white rice? What if birds were fed wheat grained rice with omega and all that stuff? I have like 20 different kinds of brown rice packed with all sorts of healthy crap inside them. What about those types?


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## gingerpch

Hi all;
Ok, at this point I'm pretty sure I have to leave the nest where it is, and thanks for all the feedback regarding food. 

So, now I am concerned about keeping the area as clean as possible. 
Here are my questions:

1. How upset can I make the Pigeon parents before they give up on the nest? As I wrote earlier, Mama wing slapped me a few times and "peck-threatened" me (didn't actually peck me or really try very hard) when I was cleaning up rice. I anticipate that if I start laying out paper and changing it when the babies hatch, then they are going to get annoyed. I don't mind annoying them, but I don't want to panic them to such a state that they leave for good--or try to kill me every time I go into my apartment.

2. As far as cleaning solutions go, what is the safest? I want to clean well, but don't want to accidentally poison anyone. Ivory dishsoap? A mild bleach solution? 

Thanks so much!
Emily


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## alvin

White rice won't harm the bird. Not in small amounts. I'm not sure about the rest.
Normally I'd feed a mix of pulses/grains that is commonly available for soups and stews over this side of the pond. It contains pearl barley, peas, lentels....that kind of thing.

PS, our Pijies _hate_ red lentils. With a passion.

Ever see a pijie swear?..........


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## alvin

gingerpch said:


> 2. As far as cleaning solutions go, what is the safest? I want to clean well, but don't want to accidentally poison anyone. Ivory dishsoap? A mild bleach solution?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> Emily


Either would be fine.


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## Charis

gingerpch said:


> Hi all;
> Ok, at this point I'm pretty sure I have to leave the nest where it is, and thanks for all the feedback regarding food.
> 
> So, now I am concerned about keeping the area as clean as possible.
> Here are my questions:
> 
> 1. How upset can I make the Pigeon parents before they give up on the nest? As I wrote earlier, Mama wing slapped me a few times and "peck-threatened" me (didn't actually peck me or really try very hard) when I was cleaning up rice. I anticipate that if I start laying out paper and changing it when the babies hatch, then they are going to get annoyed. I don't mind annoying them, but I don't want to panic them to such a state that they leave for good--or try to kill me every time I go into my apartment.
> 
> 2. As far as cleaning solutions go, what is the safest? I want to clean well, but don't want to accidentally poison anyone. Ivory dishsoap? A mild bleach solution?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> Emily


How about cutting down a box leaving a 2 inch lip around it ? That would help contain the mess.
There is a cleaner that can be purchased at many pet stores especially designed for bird poop. Oddly, it's called Poop-Off. It can also be purchased on line from Petsolutions, www.petsolutions.com.
Might not be a bad idea to purchase some Exact hand feeding formula for "just in case". It can be purchased from the same place.


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## mr squeaks

Could also use Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) in water to clean too...

I, too, would suggest a cut down box to help contain...

Sounds like you are in for quite an adventure, Mellissa! AND, so are we!! Please keep us updated! 

Alvin: A pigeon swear? Mmmmm, Gertrude comes to mind...of course, you DID deserve it! LOL Uh, yeah, Squeaks has his "badder moods" too!


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## Skyeking

MellissaG said:


> So then if rice just 'isnt healthy', im assuming you mean white rice? What if birds were fed wheat grained rice with omega and all that stuff? I have like 20 different kinds of brown rice packed with all sorts of healthy crap inside them. What about those types?


Rice should never be more then 2 percent of their regular diet, which is grains, legumes and seed. I add only long grain organic brown rice to my birds mix.

Hi Emily,

1. I would make the change once and for all, don't go back and make any changes. The more they ae disturbed the more they are likely to leave the nest, so desturb them only once and make the move, if possible.



2. I would use a non-toxic cleaner like Basic G, or another disnfectant that is gentle. Bleach can be very toxic on their delicate lungs, especially in an enclosed area. Dawn dish soap would be okay.


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## gingerpch

Hi All;

Well, I've been getting a lot of advice, thanks so much! 

In a perfect world, I would like to move the whole family to my fire escape, but this is well out of the way of the path that the parents are currently taking (it would involve taking them all into my apartment and out onto the fire-escape, which is out a window on the opposite side of the building that they are used to). Does anyone know if I can do this successfully? Move them to an entirely different spot? A few people have said to move the nest a foot or two at a time--opening my apartment door and just sliding the entire thing into my apartment, where the mother can see it. Get her used to this, and then move it further, keeping my apartment windows open--gradually getting to a point where I close my apartment door, therefore cutting off the exit she is used to. The idea is that by moving it gradually, she'll get used to the new location. Any thoughts on this? Better to just do it all at once, mother and all (maybe wrapped in a blanket or under a box?). Better to do it now with the eggs, or wait until the babies hatch (which, according to my calculations, will be any day now?)

Oy.

I am becoming obsessed with this strange little family on my doorstep. Thanks so much for all the advice everyone!
Emily


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## flitsnowzoom

Mom and Dad share parenting duties so to move one and not the other might leave you as the surrogate parents. Raising babies is hard work!
If you can possibly leave them outside your apartment door and just move the mat to the side of the door so feather ruffling (theirs and yours  ) are minimized that would be the best. You are pretty special to have such a nice little family to chose your apartment front.  

I would not clean with a bleach solution, go with the vinegar. You don't know what (if anything) the outside floors have been treated with. If they are unsealed concrete, the bleach will react with the concrete to create chlorine gas which is deadly. If someone has used a cleaning solution with ammonia in the past and you follow with bleach, then you can again create chlorine gas. Even if the bleach solution is not very concentrated, there is the potential to create the gas in concentration levels high enough to damage the birds' respiratory system. Whichever way you go, follow with clean water to remove chemical residues.


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## gingerpch

Here is something else that I am concerned about (and I realize that I am rapidly becoming a nervous parent of these pigeons myself)--my building regularly has exterminators come. They spray for roaches every month, in the common areas of the building, where my pigeon family has chosen to live.
One more reason why I wish this nest were somewhere else!
I am leaning towards moving the nest, even though I know it is risky. I called a bird rehab center, and they said the parents will communicate with each other as long as one of them knows where the nest is.
Emily


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## abisai

You say you have cats and dogs on the lower floors . . .? It seems that it will be a matter of time before the dogs or sneaky nocturnal cats creep up to take a look. And then . . . well you know the "circle of life'. Whatever you do . . . time is of the essence.


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## luisrolon

jajajajajajaja this pigeon used "Q-tips" to build her nest!!! jajajajaja


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## gingerpch

Ok everyone. After much thought, I am going to attempt to move the nest to another location, mat and all. Given that there are 4-legged pets in the building, the fact that the upcoming mess when the babies hatch may cause the building management to be uninterested in their survival, and the fact that exterminators come regularly to spray bug poison (something I just realized today), it seems like this might have to be a gamble that I take.

I've spoken to a bird-rehabber, and she suggested moving the nest into the apartment very slowly, with the hope that the mother will follow. This is not my first choice, as it will involve eventually trapping the mother in my apartment, and perhaps causing her to freak out and possibly injure herself.

Another suggestion has been made to put a box over the nest, mat, mother and all, and move them all at once. I'm aiming for my fire-escape, and hoping that if we move the whole thing and leave food out, they will not abandon the nest. The rehabber also told me that parents birds communicate with each other, so the parent that is not part of this move will eventually "find out".

Operation Pigeon Nest Move will take place tomorrow. Any final thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!

Emily


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## BirdDogg10

Hope all goes well for you just be careful.


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## Pixy

well. have you thought about maybe putting the pigeons on a platform? maybe 4 feet off the ground in a corner maybe? that way you can tell the exterminators to watch out for them??? anyways, if not... welll, i dont know. i don timagine that it would work out very well unless you maybe soooo VERY quietley put some kind of crate or box over the parent. And then carry the parent sitting on the nest with the eggs and the rug to your fire escape??? then in the morning , the mom wouldnt know what happened and there wont be too much stress. before that you can take the box off of her before you go to work or later in the night when she has settled down and is sleeping so that shell wake up peacfully and wont run away and forget where her nest is?


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## MellissaG

gingerpch said:


> Ok everyone. After much thought, I am going to attempt to move the nest to another location, mat and all. Given that there are 4-legged pets in the building, the fact that the upcoming mess when the babies hatch may cause the building management to be uninterested in their survival, and the fact that exterminators come regularly to spray bug poison (something I just realized today), it seems like this might have to be a gamble that I take.
> 
> I've spoken to a bird-rehabber, and she suggested moving the nest into the apartment very slowly, with the hope that the mother will follow. This is not my first choice, as it will involve eventually trapping the mother in my apartment, and perhaps causing her to freak out and possibly injure herself.
> 
> Another suggestion has been made to put a box over the nest, mat, mother and all, and move them all at once. I'm aiming for my fire-escape, and hoping that if we move the whole thing and leave food out, they will not abandon the nest. The rehabber also told me that parents birds communicate with each other, so the parent that is not part of this move will eventually "find out".
> 
> Operation Pigeon Nest Move will take place tomorrow. Any final thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!
> 
> Emily





Id do that, move the eggs and parent in one clean sweep to the fire escape, with as least stress as possible. At least for a day or two leave your front door open incase other parent comes walking by, but try to direct them out the window instead of using the door once you have made the move! just have it as an option at first.

Good luck!


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## gingerpch

I am sorry to say that Operation Pigeon Nest Move did not go well.

A friend and I moved the nest, doormat, and mother as gently as possible--we put a solid piece of wood under the mat, a box over mom and nest, and then moved the whole thing very slowly to the fire-escape. I then put out some food and water, waited a few minutes, and took the box off of Mom & nest. She sat there for a minute, then got up, ate some food, took a poop, and flew away. She didn't return.

I had such high hopes. I feel sad and a little guilty--even though I know the probability of the babies survival in my hallway was not good, given all of the unknown factors like exterminators and building management. At least the parents will live?

At any rate, this has been an amazing and sad experience and if anything else, I love pigeons now. I've left birdseed on my fire escape as a memorial to the lost eggs, and I hope the neighborhood birds enjoy it. 

Thanks so much for all the advice and support everyone! Who knew that I would enjoy this pigeon community so much?
-Emily


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## Lovebirds

gingerpch said:


> I am sorry to say that Operation Pigeon Nest Move did not go well.
> 
> A friend and I moved the nest, doormat, and mother as gently as possible--we put a solid piece of wood under the mat, a box over mom and nest, and then moved the whole thing very slowly to the fire-escape. I then put out some food and water, waited a few minutes, and took the box off of Mom & nest. She sat there for a minute, then got up, ate some food, took a poop, and flew away. She didn't return.
> 
> I had such high hopes. I feel sad and a little guilty--even though I know the probability of the babies survival in my hallway was not good, given all of the unknown factors like exterminators and building management. At least the parents will live?
> 
> At any rate, this has been an amazing and sad experience and if anything else, I love pigeons now. I've left birdseed on my fire escape as a memorial to the lost eggs, and I hope the neighborhood birds enjoy it.
> 
> Thanks so much for all the advice and support everyone! Who knew that I would enjoy this pigeon community so much?
> -Emily


Emily, sorry that didn't work out. I didn't think it would.  But, like you said, where they nest was wasn't safe and I doubt that the babies would have survived there for 30 plus days. It would have been awful to find them dead or eaten at 1 or 2 weeks of age. I think in this case, you did what you had to do. Thanks for at least caring and trying. You could always stick around here you know. We'd be glad to have you.


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## MellissaG

When did she leave? Perhaps she will come back in the evening..

maybe even a day or two.

Are you leaving the front door open incase she goes back to the "old spot"?

You can always incubate the eggs yourself, and let them hatch on their own, too..So not ALL is lost...


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