# eye sign



## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

Do you prefer the orange eye sign or the red eye sign? And does it matter when you breed a orange eye and red eye bird together?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think pearl eyes are beautiful, but in the eyesign theory, the color of the iris isn't the important thing.
Also, it doesn't matter which colors you breed together.


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## Bezz (Dec 12, 2008)

I like the Pearled eyed birds small PUPILL!

Bezz


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The answer to the question is....Do not mate pigeons with the same exact color eyes...The reason is,this usally delutes the color quality of the eye...Allways mate a Yellow eye to a pearl eye... Or a Green eye to a Pearl eye....A voilet eye to a yellow eye....etc etc etc..... Someties maybe ,you have no choice but to mate a same color eye birds together..The worst one is pearl to pearl.....Yellow to yellow is usally not to bad,especially if the yellow of each bird is a shade or two different....Alamo


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I do not understand how mating two of the same color eyes will have any effect on them other than limiting the colors the offspring can have.

And what are green and violet eyes? I thought there was only yellow (also called orange) and pearl (also called red), or bull-eyes.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think if I relied on eye color to breed my birds and not race results that I would get birds with colored eyes and nothing else. Personally I think there are more important factors to look at when breeding than eye color or eye sign in general. Two mediocre birds with different colored eyes in most cases will not breed as good of birds as your two race winners with identical eyes. Thus the quality of the bird outweighs the quality of the eyes. 

I also think that wing, throat, size, race results, family line, past breeding performance, and stock sense all trump eye color for selection. 

I do not even look at the eye when choosing breeders. First and foremost I look at how siblings, parents, and offspring have bred offspring. Next I look at race results of the bird and the family of birds. I would much rather have a same sex sibling of my best breeding bird than anything else.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

This subject,as any pigeon flyer will tell you,is one of the most debated in this hobby...I can only say,as many others have said here on this site,or in books....It`s one of 6 important parts,that make up a VG pigeon....But mating pearl to pearl eyes,is not very good...Ask Mike Ganus,or any other top breeder...They try to stay away from this if at all possible...On another site,they had a contest which showed eyes of 50 pigeons...All the eyes were excelent or better...The contest wanted you to pick out the short distance and Distance pigeons by EYE SIGN ONLY !!!....I didn`t do so good with the sprint pigeons...Because I don`t have or want sprint pigeons in my loft....As for the distance birds,I picked out the best 3 in order,as they placed in a 500/600 mile race...Like I said above,as Alex Bieche says also....6 important parts make up a VG pigeon..And eye sign is one of them...Even if YOU don`t beleive in eye sign,it does play a part in your loft...
As far as the eye sign GRADER goes,he will not be at my loft...I know which of my birds is or isn`t a winner at breeding..The basket will tell me....I purchased a YB from CBS in Oklahoma for $500.00 4 years ago...I took him out of the stock loft in 2009,and let him go...I would not give or sell a bird that did nothing for me as a breeder or flyer...How many of you would do that ?? Let $500 go fly off into the sky ?? Hey,I work part time for $140 a week, so I can fly my birds etc....I`m not rich...I can`t afford to give money away....But a no good pigeon has to go...So I let him live to breed under a bridge....
What I would like to have come to my loft,is a guy like Alex Bieche or Rich Dworek,who can tell me if my matings can be improved...Other then that,I will live with what I know of my strain of pigeons...Here is the easiest way to find the best pigeons in someone`s loft...Check the band #`s for the oldest pigeons....If a bird is 3 years old.or older,it`s good,and that`s why he/she is still on a perch in the loft...Alamo


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I still want to know WHY pearl to pearl isn't good! What the heck does it do to the bird that's so bad?? Last year both the pigeons I won races with were from my pearl x pearl pairs.


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## hawkbait (May 21, 2004)

I Would Mate An Orange Eyed Bird To A Red Eyed Bird...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think if I relied on eye color to breed my birds and not race results that I would get birds with colored eyes and nothing else. Personally I think there are more important factors to look at when breeding than eye color or eye sign in general. Two mediocre birds with different colored eyes in most cases will not breed as good of birds as your two race winners with identical eyes. Thus the quality of the bird outweighs the quality of the eyes.
> 
> I also think that wing, throat, size, race results, family line, past breeding performance, and stock sense all trump eye color for selection.
> 
> I do not even look at the eye when choosing breeders. First and foremost I look at how siblings, parents, and offspring have bred offspring. Next I look at race results of the bird and the family of birds. I would much rather have a same sex sibling of my best breeding bird than anything else.


Hi guys I'm new to the forums and new to pairing up birds. I have forty five birds. I'm trying to pair up Dec 1. I don't have race records, any breeding records, or flying records. Most of the birds are from one loft races that the breeders didn't want back. I trying to figure out how to pair the birds right now and was going to go by eyesign and how the birds handled. Not sure what else to do. If anyone is interested in helping me out please do. I even went out and took pictures of all the birds eyes to help with my pairings. Maybe it is a load of crap, but it seems everyone has there own ideas. I didn’t know where else to start. So I was going to try eyesign this year and see what happens. I was going to follow this information from the Alberta Classic.

Do you think I should try something else?


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## beaverbandit (Mar 15, 2009)

Eyesign is only one tool to use, if you go by it alone you are going to fail in the long run. 
Looking into the eye cannot tell you what is in the birds head, his homing abililty. only the basket can do that. we can look at the wing, the body,exct. and choose the type of pigeon we think is best but nobody can see inside and judge it homing abililty. but the basket will always bring the cream the the top.


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## sandiego (Jan 11, 2008)

hello , if the eyes color doesnt realy matter for any of you, what about the size of the pupil is better to breed the bigger pupil or small pupil?


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*Eyes*

I prefr the smaller pupil by far it seems to have active reflex in theer ,, as far as colro doenst really matter


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The Pearl to Pearl mating,as per the eye EXPERTS...not Alamo,who is not an expert at anything,according to my wife,is that the youngsters of this mating seem to get what they call is "Washed Out" eyes....The color fades away,as like when you wash clothes over a period of time...They lose their original color...I don`t have any eyes as such in my loft...All I can say is,if I am pairing up a cock,and he is a yellow eyed bird,I will try to get a matching hen with a pearl eye,or color not to close to HIS eye...It seems the eyes other then the PEARL eyes,don`t get this washed out look,as they talk about...They being the experts...I had at one time 3 different eye sign books,and this pearl to pearl was the only mating they all said was not good....That does not mean YOU cannot mate that way,it`s only a suggestion that YOU don`t waste your time,trying to IMPROVE your breeding chances,with this match up of eye color.....Alamo


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

sandiego said:


> hello , if the eyes color doesnt realy matter for any of you, what about the size of the pupil is better to breed the bigger pupil or small pupil?


Unless I am mistaken, the size of the pupil will be dictated by the amount of light which it is exposed to. It will dialate and become smaller in bright, direct sunlight and larger in darker conditions. So...I guess it would make a difference when you are looking at their eyes.

I could be wrong but I think this one is purely biology and not some breeding scheme.

Dan


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

learning said:


> Unless I am mistaken, the size of the pupil will be dictated by the amount of light which it is exposed to. It will dialate and become smaller in bright, direct sunlight and larger in darker conditions. So...I guess it would make a difference when you are looking at their eyes.
> 
> I could be wrong but I think this one is purely biology and not some breeding scheme.
> 
> Dan


You are correct but some of these birds pupils don't dialate down like they should and if I notice that in a bird I don't like it.


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## diwaj (Aug 7, 2008)

*Eye Sign and distance*

Sorry for reopening this thread,

but have to open this as this is relevant rather to start a new.

How do you rate a bird as short distance, middle distance, long distance or all rounder, with eye sign..

Thanks

Diwa


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The only eye sign you need to go by is the 2 eye sign. look at the ped or ask the breeder what distance the birds fly the best at.
Dave


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The eye does not make the bird RACE 500 miles....It`s wing and muscles and soft feathers do...Eye sign is part of the processing the brain uses to get the direction of the way home...The better the bird does this process,the more of a straight line it uses to fly home...That makes for better speed,as long as the bird has the strenght,and stamina to go all the way without stopping....Alamo


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