# Dove not able to fly far and falling forward on landing



## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Please could someone help me? I have a few white doves that I inherited when I bought my home 18 months ago who live quite happily in a dovecote. I am a complete amateur when it comes to this. One of the adults (I'm sorry I don't know if male or female) has been out of sorts for almost a week. I have brought it indoors and am keeping it in a small cage to keep it safe from cats and hawks. It can't fly very far at all and lands clumsily falling forward slightly on landing. It walks around but seems a little slower and does not move quickly if approached which concerns me. It is eating, drinking and pooping. 

I have tried putting it back with the others by putting it to feed with them. One of the other birds keeps attacking it however pecking aggressively and it cannot defend itself or seem to move away from it. It feeds really well until this starts and puts its wings out to stop the others getting the food! I'm worried as I don't want to keep it in captivity for too long and it doesn't seem to be improving. I have asked the vet for advice over the phone and he suggested that a predator may have got at it (there are no visible marks) and it is shaken up. Please can anyone offer any suggestions or advice?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

it is hard to say, but usually the other birds will pick on a sick bird.. but you already know he is sick.. I would see if the vet could check his droppings and see if he as a bacterial infection going on..then you would know what meds to give... I would bring him in and keep him safe untill he is better.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Can you tell us what the poops are like - color, consistency. 

Also, if we know where you are located, there may be someplace where he/she could be taken if your vet is not very bird-knowledgeable.

Definitely best isolated, in case he/she has an infection which could be spread. Keep a good eye on the other birds, too.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wonder why folks make a thread and then just disappear without a word....................... not even a kiss my arse or thank ya mam. ...lol......


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> wonder why folks make a tread and then just disappear without a word....................... not even a kiss my arse or thank ya mam. ...lol......


Probably coz this is a Forum, not an instant messenger, and most newbies prob dont expect express answers. 
Also, you may find they've posted on several forums and maybe logged out 1, checked another and got an answer or help there.
I must admit, this is the fastest response forum i've ever seen, but then it is bigger and worldwide so folk are around more to help.

You also get the opposite, those that post and get annoyed coz no one replies quick enough....guess you cant win at times


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Quazar said:


> Probably coz this is a Forum, not an instant messenger, and most newbies prob dont expect express answers.
> Also, you may find they've posted on several forums and maybe logged out 1, checked another and got an answer or help there.
> I must admit, this is the fastest response forum i've ever seen, but then it is bigger and worldwide so folk are around more to help.
> 
> You also get the opposite, those that post and get annoyed coz no one replies quick enough....guess you cant win at times


if it is about a sick bird you would think they would checked back in the whole hour she was on here AFTER her question was posted, guess that is just me I suppose.. it is ok..


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Thank you all for your feedback I'll certainly take the bird back to the vet tomorrow. It seems to be doing ok. Thank you Quazar for your accurate observation and Spirit Wings I wasn't on here for a 'whole hour' afterwards and think your comments are highly inappropriate. I have people to also care for as well as other animals, a bed and a job to go to which is why I have just logged on now. I do feel very reluctant to post any further - I had hoped this might be a source of useful feedback which it has been to some extent. Having said that I don't think my query and lack of my immediate response to any postings warrants the sarcasm and 'kiss my ass' comment. It looks as though you possibly may have the luxury of more time on your hands than I in that you can post at whatever time of the day or night suits you. I'm assuming this forum is international and you should also consider what time zone people may be posting from.


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

*John D asked....Can you tell us what the poops are like - color, consistency?*

They are greyish green with white streaks. Consistency is loose and doesn't looks out of the normal (to the untrained eye!)


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

It may well be suffering from an attack by a predator, or a number of other things which can affect them, as Spirit wings said, other birds do tend to pick on those that are sick.

Normally Pigeons and doves hide any illness as much as they can, as a natural deterrant from predators, so the fact that this one is showing signs more than likely means that whatever it is, it has got a good hold on the bird and needs to be treated ASAP.
Can you examine the bird and see if there are any wounds or puncture marks (you will have to look very closely through its feathers) as even the tinyest of wounds from a predator means this bird may need antibiotics.
A cats saliva contains bacteria that can very quickly down a bird and kill it. Even a swipe by a cats claws can leave traces of saliva on its feathers.
Keep the bird isolated in the cage at present.
If you have any sort of heating pad that you could put half under the cage (so the bird can choose whether to sit on or off the heat). This also helps the bird fight off any illness as its system can use more resources to combat the bacteria and less to keep it warm.
If you line the cage with white paper towels and could then post a pic of its latest poops (as close up and in focus as possible) theres loads of folk on here that can give ideas as to what it may be from this, (hence the reason john asked about the poops )
Also, a pic of the bird itself would be good to see its posture etc.
If you can have a look inside the doves mouth, it should be a nice pinky colour, not grey or any signs of white or yellowy growths, or mucousy looking.
Its usually easier if you can wrap the bird in a soft towell with its head poking out to do this, saves it struggling and flapping its wings to try and get away.

Oh, and no need to worry about catching anything from the bird, contrary to popular belief, they dont carry anything that can be passed on to humans.
but do use general hygene protocol washing hands after handling them etc.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Emma B said:


> Thank you all for your feedback I'll certainly take the bird back to the vet tomorrow. It seems to be doing ok. Thank you Quazar for your accurate observation and Spirit Wings I wasn't on here for a 'whole hour' afterwards and think your comments are highly inappropriate. I have people to also care for as well as other animals, a bed and a job to go to which is why I have just logged on now. I do feel very reluctant to post any further - I had hoped this might be a source of useful feedback which it has been to some extent. Having said that I don't think my query and lack of my immediate response to any postings warrants the sarcasm and 'kiss my ass' comment. It looks as though you possibly may have the luxury of more time on your hands than I in that you can post at whatever time of the day or night suits you. I'm assuming this forum is international and you should also consider what time zone people may be posting from.


hey now.. I had a LOL and smile.. it was meant in good humor.. I was just wondering if you even got any good info out of it... glad all is doing better.. was just being a bit cheeky.. that is all...... guess i just should of said.. "yo emma what up?....lol..


now on the more seriouse side what Quazar has said is very good information.. I hope it helps you and your bird..


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Quazar this is really useful advice and thanks all for your input and assuring me that at the moment I'm doing the right things. Right, it is now 22.29 my time - I am leaving the house at 6am tomorrow for work so am logging off now - is that OK Spirit Wings?  lol..... I do appreciate every bit of advice you have all given me - lets hope the little fella pulls through. I'll keep you posted.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Emma B said:


> Quazar this is really useful advice and thanks all for your input and assuring me that at the moment I'm doing the right things. Right, it is now 22.29 my time - I am leaving the house at 6am tomorrow for work so am logging off now - is that OK Spirit Wings?  lol..... I do appreciate every bit of advice you have all given me - lets hope the little fella pulls through. I'll keep you posted.


I think it is great to just to get that quick of a response from the UK!!..lol.... keep us updated..


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

*Images of Dove and pop*

Any ideas. It seems less active today - will be taking it to the vet later but thought useful to get your thoughts based on the images? Many thanks in advance.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm def no expert on poops but they do look rather runny, sure someone will post their expert views soon.
Its a beautiful bird, looks relatively alert and supporting its weight ok the way its standing.
It seems a little hunched, although could be content as if it was just about to settle down for a rest lol.
The condition of the tail feathers look a bit soiled. A Normal healthy bird would normally be preening and cleaning to avoid this.

Forgot to say, make sure you tell the vet he is a PET bird, just in case. 
Sad to say, but some vets just euthanise sick birds if they consider them feral even though there is a very good chance of recovery


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

I took the little fella to the vet today. When I got home I found he had a lot of poop clustered around his back end and for the first time hadn't eaten. The vet tried to clear it and a bit of flesh (about 1.5cm) came out with it. The vet suspects that it has possible 'intersuception' of flesh throught cloaca. When I asked what that meant, he said it wasn't looking good for him and that he basically had passed what looked like a piece of his gut. He said what was slightly more positive was that there was no bleeding. He has given him a shot of anti-flammitory, anti biotic and painkiller (It says Dexafort on the invoice). He also thought he was quite thin (although has been eating up until today) with poor muscle tone. I pray he's going to make it through. Poor little mite. (P.s. I made it clear it was a pet Quazar - I even gave it a name - Jasper!)


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Interesting one. We have had hen birds who passed misshapen fleshy-looking lumps which were, apparently, a problem with the oviduct. Hope this little one makes it.


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

That sounds like what this one has passed - its like a little fleshy squiggle (like a bit of worm). Dare I ask, did your hens recover? I was surprised the vet thought Jasper (or possibly Jane...) was thin - although it is thinner than before it became ill, it was quite a big bird - the photo I uploaded was taken this morning. I hope s/he recovers.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

The hens seemed none the worse for it. One is fine, the other passed away 2 or 3 years after, but never laid more eggs.

A good sized adult bird I would expect to weigh no less than 300 grams.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Emma, good to hear that jasper/jane has been to the vet but wasnt so good to hear that they said things werent looking too good for him/her, although from what John says I would def look more on the bright side.
Pigeons & doves can be sturdy little fighters at times and surprise a lot of us, sometimes all they need is a little extra help and rest, away from the stress and bullying (for lack of a better word lol) of other birds. 
Hopefully the shot the vet gave will help it on its way to recovery, and if it is a little thin, I vaguely remember from a friends visit to the vet with her dog, that one of the side effets of dexafort is it makes the patient want to eat more, so this could help put a little weight on too.
Please keep us all updated with his/her progress


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Glad you got some info on the bird.. you may want to deworm your birds a few times a year, esp because they are outdoors, sometimes a worm/parasitic infestation can make their digestive tract vulnerable.


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks all - some really sound advice. The good news is that Jasmine (decided on a name) is a lot better and went for a supervised walk in the sunshine. I do think she is a girl as two of the males got very excited when she made an appearance. I hope the improvements last.


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Jasmine is still enjoying supervised walks in the sunshine but still cannot fly. She eats ok but is getting quite thin in my view. She poops ok and pecks the ground when outside. She still falls forward whenever she tries to fly and cannot get off the ground herself. Do you think this is to do with the fleshy lump that she passed or do you think this could be unrelated? She can open her wings but just seems very clumsy and unco-ordinated. Walking she is more or less ok but I worry what her future is going to hold. I'll take her back to the vet tomorrow but wondered if you could please suggest anything else this might be or if there is anything I could give her/ask the vet for that would help her put on more weight?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Emma, was Jasmine given an injection of antibiotics, then a bottle of oral antibiotics to take home to continue treatment? Do you know what the antibiotic they injected was?

Did what she passed out her rear end look anything like this?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=555263&postcount=10

Karyn


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Emma, was Jasmine given an injection of antibiotics, then a bottle of oral antibiotics to take home to continue treatment? Do you know what the antibiotic they injected was?
> 
> Did what she passed out her rear end look anything like this?
> 
> ...


Hi Karyn

Thanks you for replying.

I can only describe it as more like a part of a very small, pale pink, piece earthworm which was blocking her rear end which the vet found when he was cleaning her. He only gave her a shot (it says dexafort on the invoice) and no further meds. If I go back tomorrow should I ask for more antibiotics do you think? I'm sorry, I am pretty clueless as to what I should be asking for as this is the first sick bird I've had since we inherited them. 

Emma


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Emma, for some reason, I did not have a look at your thread until today. The Dexafort she received is a glucocorticoid used in birds to treat inflammation and also sometimes for toxic conditions. Most times when given, as yours was, it is as a one times treatment, as extended use can actually suppress the immune system, opening the body to the chance of an infection easily starting or compromising an immune system's effectiveness against any present infection(s).

From the look of her, the look of her droppings, and the lack/ability of desire to fly, I would say there is a good chance that she could presently have an infection, maybe reproductive in nature. I would ask the vet to prescribe two weeks of empiric treatment (basically, a fancy way of saying, let's try it and see what the response is) with Trimethoprim/Sulfa in combination with Metronidazole. You may have to be assertive, as sometimes vets don't like people telling them what may be wrong or making suggestion what to treat with, but try your best.

The dosing would be Trimethoprim/Sulfa 50mg/kg BID and the Metronidazole the same 50mg/kg BID.

Karyn


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

This is great Dobato. I have a relatively good relationship with our vet as he treats our three dogs also so hopefully he won't be too put out. (I let him know on my last visit that I had been consulting this forum for advice). Thank you so much to you and to everyone else on here who have gone to the trouble of sharing your thoughts, experience and advice.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

No problem, I hope things go well with your visit. Do please keep us updated and if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to help you with them.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

The good news is that the vet was very receptive to suggestion on antibiotics and anti-inflammatory. I have now been given Trimethoprim to inject twice a day and Metronidazole orally. Lets hope this works. She is so thin but seems fairly lively.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Emma, good news that he is receptive to suggestions, but is there a reason that he prescribed an injectable drug and not an oral broad spectrum antibiotic? Injectable antibiotics have their place, but IMO, we would be safer, and I think more effective, giving an oral medication right now. Plus, Trimethoprim would not be a first choice drug, as a stand alone antibiotic, to deal with Jasmine's possible issues. The best choice would be a Sulfa drug, potentiated (made more effective) by the addition of Trimethoprim.

Is there any possible way you could get him to replace the injectable Trimethoprim, with oral Trimethoprim/Sulfa, either a ready made suspension or pills I can help you make up into a suspension?

Karyn


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Sadly Jasmine didn't make it - she passed away this morning with me. I feel so sad - she was a little fighter.. Thank you all for your help and advice.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

May Jasmine Rest in Peace  She sure put up one hell of a fight! So sad when something so cute dies


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Emma, I was hoping that we had a chance to bring Jasmine back, but sometimes they are at a point where it is hard, even with the best of treatment. Thanks for trying for her and please accept my heart felt condolences for your loss. Rest in peace Jasmine.

Karyn


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Emma, its so sad to hear this. 
You did well spotting she was out of sorts in the first place and you did everything you could to help her.
The sad thing about Pigeons & Doves is that they hide any sickness for so long (in order not to attract predators) that by the time anything does show it is often too late to do much about it. 
At least her last few days were spent comfortable & safe.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

so sorry..........you gave her your best.. RIP Jasmine.


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## Emma B (Mar 21, 2011)

Thank you for all of your kind words and guidance over the past week. I have been pretty cut up as have been looking after her for the past ten days and grew really attached to her. The weird thing is that the doves outside wouldn't come and feed at their table this morning - they did later on some time after she passed away. We have a squab in the dovecote not far off making an appearance as a fledgling. As one life ends another begins. I'm glad Jas was out of pain as she did pass peacefully.


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## Jinglez (Apr 8, 2011)

So sorry for you Emma. I was drawn to your thread as I have a similar problem (a new thread I will start shortly). Just wanted you to know I feel your sadness too. Nature sucks sometimes.


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