# Update on all birds!



## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Well, I'd thought I'd do this all in one shot instead of multipal threads.
Crazy~broken leg and side damage~ That bird was sooo crazy I named him "Crazy." I was finally able to release him a few days ago. He was so happy to be out of a cage! I've seen him a few times around but I think he's gone back to his original home. 
Tommy~Shot in wing~wing has healed PERFECTLY! There is a little bit of a bump where the bullet entered but I think it's scar tissue. She can fly but not for very long and gets tired easly. She doesn't like human contact so when and if she builds up those muscles I'll hopefully release her.
Kelly~snaped wing~ The bone has healed well too! She can also fly but is very unstable when she does. She's a fisty little thing. So once again, when and if her muscles build up and she's more stable in flight I'll release her.
Black Beauty~Clipped by car Squeaker~ He still doesn't want to fly, but has more balance. I think he has some brain damage cause he will sometimes twich he's head in that manner. So I'm not sure if I would release him knowing that.
Brown Sugar~shot/abandoned homing pigeon~ He's doing just FINE! No more heat around the wound, it's amost healed over, and he's eating and drinking more than ever! We still have a week left of his Bytril treatment and he can't wait for it to be over. He knows when I get home from work it's time for his pill and he makes it known he's not happy about it. He pecks, weak wing slapps, and coo's like crazy! When I took him out of his kennel last night he tried to fly, but crashed instead. We still have a ways to go with him! I think it's safe to say that I'm going to be keeping him for the rest of his days. I was thinking when he's all better and in the clear zone I'd call the original owner back and make him feel guilty on how well his doing.
I'll give you all more updates on everyone when there's more progress! 
Hilary Dawn


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the updates, Hilary! It sounds like very good news all the way around. I'm so glad all your current patients are doing so well. Keep us posted.

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

So glad to hear all the great progress.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Hilary,

What wonderful news to hear. I'm glad they are all thriving under your care.

Thanks for the update.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Hillary, 


Wow...good going !

Thats a lotta Birds being taken care of there..!


You know, anyone who seems weak or light after enough time for them to be strong and full...might just be Worms effecting them.

Had one recently myself that way...so I am on a '... it might be Worms...' kick now...

Lol...


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*You have your hands*

full... I should never complain...again...How rewarding it must be to see them all healing.. Your an angel...Andi


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## jerseygeorge (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks so much for your hard work.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hilary, great news all around for your guys. You should be very proud of yourself. Make sure you keep records of all this so when you apply at that school again you can add all this to your resume.


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Thanks Everyone!
I forgot about my two Pizza Shack Sqeakers. 
Peepers & Alexandra are full grown and flying now. They fight offen in their cage so they're getting moved outside to the avairy soon (building a new one this week!!!). 
As for the weakness in Kelly, it's not her body it's the damaged wing. There's no muscle to it even tho I was stretching it when the bone healed. But she did come up postive for Coocidia. I'm taking another fecal on her to see if she did fight it off and if she didn't it's off to the vet for some Bactrim. 
Since I'm writing this up I might as well tell you all about Marvin (Raven) and Elizabeth (crow) I got a while back at the some time. 
Mavin is BIG! He now stands just a bit smaller than 1.5ft and has a 2.5ft wing span! He's COMPLETELY humanized now and will put up a fuss if you don't pay any attention to him. He eats like a horse, too! His eye and mouth color are turning black now and he's lossing his baby fluff feathers. I've got another movie on him on my youtube thing. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HilaryDawn 
As for Elizabeth~attacked by cat bits to chest and broken legs~ I don't know what I going to do with her. Everytime I splint her foot (they're closing up into a fist) she ripes them off. I tried taping her mouth shut for about an hour so she'd get used to the bandage but some how she got out of that and riped them off again. She a pain when she bits you (beak cuts though skin) but she's a doll.  The unforunate part is that if her legs don't heal I'll have to put her down cause I can't keep her (and I'm not suppose to anyway). 
Well on a lighter note I saw Crazy today when I got home from work!
I'll keep you all updated!
Hilary Dawn

PS~On Monday I might not be here for a while cause at work we're getting a pup mill in (about 30 dogs are coming to us out of 60). When a pup mill coming in you have to do a health assesment, a bath and shave, then another health assesment on them all. I'm also going up to the mill to get the dogs too and that's about a 1 and a half hours drive. So that's going to take A LOT of time. So I'll probrably be too tired to come on and see what's going on. But when the rush is over I'll let you all know how I'm doing and the dogs.
Talk to ya later!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the additional updates, Hilary. The Marvin videos are wonderful! If you could place Elizabeth with someone who could take good care of her and keep her as a beloved pet would you be interested? If so, I can ask on my crows list and see if there is anyone in your area. Let me know.

Terry


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

OMG Terry I would be forever greetfull if you could find a home for her!! It breakes my heart seeing her in her condition and not being with her durning the day or being able to fix the problem. She's got a great character, spunky and sweet but you do have to watch her cause she will bit and hard too (got a few scraps and bruise from her). 
If you can find her a home I'd be so happy! And if they're recomended by you than I'll be happy to turn her over to them.
Thank you so much!
Hilary Dawn


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hilary, 

I just wanted to say that I'm pretty sure Marvin is a crow not a raven. He's too small to be a raven and after I watched the videos. He's a darling though and I just love the "baby" sounds they make

You've done very well with all these birds Hilary, the crows and the pigeons


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Thanks Brad.
But sorry to say this but Marvin is a Raven that's a baby vidoe. He was about 5 weeks in that video. And the other thing is that Crows don't have that ting of blue and purple to them. Also the tail feathers are different, a crow's are rounded and a Raven's come to a point and make a "V." I did my homework on these guys but I could do with more input tho.
I'll get my camera working again and take picture of them all for you all. Especially Marvin for you Brad, he'll be a little scruffy cause he's such a messy bird it's not even funny! Oh well I still love him!
Hilary Dawn


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Keys & Eyegone said:


> Thanks Brad.
> But sorry to say this but Marvin is a Raven that's a baby vidoe. He was about 5 weeks in that video. And the other thing is that Crows don't have that ting of blue and purple to them. *Also the tail feathers are different, a crow's are rounded and a Raven's come to a point and make a "V." I did my homework* on these guys but I could do with more input tho.
> I'll get my camera working again and take picture of them all for you all. Especially Marvin for you Brad, he'll be a little scruffy cause he's such a messy bird it's not even funny! Oh well I still love him!
> Hilary Dawn



Hi Hilary, yes...you have done your homework by the sounds of it You're right about the tail. How old is Marvin now? I guess I also was going by your description of size and you had mentioned that his wingspan was 2.5 feet. That is even small for a crow. Crows have about a 3 foot wing span when grown and an adult raven's wingspan is about 4 feet or a little more. 

Thank you for thinking of me though because I really do love to see crows and ravens


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

I just did the calculations on Marvins age and he was 9 weeks yesterday.
I was thinking too tho, he might not grow to his full size cause I don't have a large enough cage for him. Also he wasn't on the best food when he was with the original guy so that could have stunted his growth. 
Well pretty soon he'll have an avairy to himself cause my pigeons are getting a new one. My dad is get a 10ftx12ft inselated shed from work and we're going to be putting a "window" in for them to go outside into a 12ftx12ftx7ft outdoor avairy. I'm some excited to get started on this project! So I'm going to be putting Marvin in the old avairy so he can stretch his wings more and have some fun with his cat toys.
HD


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Keys & Eyegone said:


> I just did the calculations on Marvins age and he was 9 weeks yesterday.
> *I was thinking too tho, he might not grow to his full size cause I don't have a large enough cage for him. Also he wasn't on the best food when he was with the original guy so that could have stunted his growth*.
> Well pretty soon he'll have an avairy to himself cause my pigeons are getting a new one. My dad is get a 10ftx12ft inselated shed from work and we're going to be putting a "window" in for them to go outside into a 12ftx12ftx7ft outdoor avairy. I'm some excited to get started on this project! So I'm going to be putting Marvin in the old avairy so he can stretch his wings more and have some fun with his cat toys.
> HD



Hi Hilary, 

I still think Marvin is a crow and I don't believe that the cage size matters to how well or how much he grows. This is more of a concern with feather quality and strength. I also don't think that the food would have stunted his growth to that extent. He's not very old really but is nearly full size (for a crow). In another few months he will be as big as he's going to get. 

One thing about crows is they make a distinct "caw" when they are adults, ravens don't, their call is different and deeper. Another thing that is different between them is the feathers on and around their face, head and neck. Crows have a very rounded and smooth head of feathers. Ravens get a patch under their chin that looks like a shaggy beard in a way. They also get these little tuffs over their eyes that they can make stand up. 

Crows weigh about 1lb or so when adults, ravens are double that. Crows are 17-21 inches long and a raven is 25-27 inches long and with the "V" shaped tail you mentioned 

But in any case, your soon to be new aviary sounds like a dream for the pigeons and Marvin will definitely appreciate the old one. I can imagine you are very excited about this! It's going to be a nice size too! When are you doing to start working on it? And don't forget to post all kinds of pictures


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Hey Brad,
If Marvin's a Crow or Raven it doesn't really matter to me anymore. He's a nice bird and has a great personality and that's all that matters.
The size stunting idea came from work cause that's what happens to a lot the kittens. If they're sick the go into a cage and usually stay there for awhile and that'll sometimes stunt their growth cause they don't have enough room. But how knows. lol 
My new avairy should be started this week. I saved up a thousand dollors for it. My dad is going into the bank to get a loan since we need a new roof before winter and he's using the rest of the money to buy the land that's behind our house. The avairy is going to have metal postes instead of wood ones to prevent roting. We're also going to dig up the floor of the avairy and lay down some hard wire cloth so nothing come dig up underneth. The old avairy will stay for just one more winter then it's coming down (wood's starting to rote). I'm going to be putting up a bug screen so no bugs can get in for the risk of west nile. 
I'll be sure to take lots of pictures this time. 
Hilary Dawn


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Keys & Eyegone said:


> Hey Brad,
> *If Marvin's a Crow or Raven it doesn't really matter to me anymore. He's a nice bird and has a great personality and that's all that matters.*
> The size stunting idea came from work cause that's what happens to a lot the kittens. If they're sick the go into a cage and usually stay there for awhile and that'll sometimes stunt their growth cause they don't have enough room. But how knows. lol
> My new avairy should be started this week. I saved up a thousand dollors for it. My dad is going into the bank to get a loan since we need a new roof before winter and he's using the rest of the money to buy the land that's behind our house. The avairy is going to have metal postes instead of wood ones to prevent roting. We're also going to dig up the floor of the avairy and lay down some hard wire cloth so nothing come dig up underneth. The old avairy will stay for just one more winter then it's coming down (wood's starting to rote). I'm going to be putting up a bug screen so no bugs can get in for the risk of west nile.
> ...



Hi Hilary...I agree but I just want you to be "on top" of things and because you're such a smart, intelligent young lady!! It really doesn't matter whether or not Marvin is a crow or a raven but because you're so envolved in these things, I'm hoping you will learn a lot more too

You have the drive, determination and intellect to go further with this and it really seems to be your "calling" 


You've saved a LOT OF MONEY!!!! That's EXCELLENT and so responsible! You are a wonderful example to other young people on our forum and to those who might want to get into this "occupation" further. Well done, Hilary and I really knew you'd shine with all of this


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Thanks Brad,
Right now I've been learning a lot about both Crows and Ravens instead of fucusing on one in pricular, just I case he could be the other. But it's all too cool to say you have a Raven. lol.
And yes that's a lot of money. It took a long time to save it up and a lot of resrant not a spend a little of it. You just got to tell youreslf "it's for the birds, it's for the birds." I do feel really good about doing this. Avoiding those tempting shopping malls (don't really like shopping anyway lol) and all those do~dad's trageting teens. 
Got to stay focused at all time.
Life is want you make it, always had been, always will be. 
Hilary Dawn


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hilary...

One way or another, you will make this your "bread & butter" in life. You are so taken by animals, ALL animals and this is your destiny You have a need and the desire to further this and persue a field where you are helping, studying, or simply OBSERVING animals in their natural habitat for a living. There is very good money envolved with careers focussing on any of these specific studies so keep it up! You could become a vet, a marine biologist, a laboratory technician which encompassess a whole "whack" of things....just follow your heart and dreams


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Hey Brad,
I finally got my camera to work and I'm going to be posting the pictures tomorrow (got the day off).
My mom and I were talking about Marvin tonight and she (still thinks he's a Raven) thinks he might actually be a she. Females are tipically smaller than males. Who knows, just going to have to wait till (s)he's full grow or something.lol
As for Elizabeth. I got in contact with some one from Newfoundland that wanted her. We talked last night for a while and I liked her. All she need to do was get the "ok" from her husband (or what she put it as "just to let him know I'm getting a crow"lol). I went outside to my shed where I kept her to tell her the good news; she way laying down in the corner of her cage and when I called out to her she looked at me then curled her head under her chest as if she was going to sleep for the night, but then her wings droped. She died!!  I was so unerved and devastated I didn't know what to do! My dad had rearranged the shed that day and he said she was cawing at him and bobing her head as if nothing was worry all day. I guess she was never ment to be in a cage, but she's now in the best home she could ever get, fly high and free. I called the lady back this morning (an e-mail would have been very inaproperate in this situation) and told what had happened and she was very nice and understand of the whole situation, a little sad but I don't blame her. I'm still a little upset myself but there was nothing more I could do for her. I buried her in the middle of a field where she could look up into the clear blue sky, I'm sure she likes the view cause I always did. 
Well I'll get those pictures up for you right away tomorrow morning.
Talk to you later and Thanks!
Hilary Dawn


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry for the loss of Elizabeth, Hilary. Thank you for doing all you did for her and for trying to find her a forever home.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Dear Hilary, 

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of Elizabeth, how shocking and sudden It's just awful when they go so suddenly like that and unexpectedly. I wonder if WNV was a factor in her death or not. Thankfully mosquitos won't be around much longer in our areas with fall and winter approaching.

Take your time with the pictures Hilary but I would love to see all the pictures of both Elizabeth and Marvin


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Thanks Terry and Brad,
Brad, I never did get a non-blurry picture of Elizabeth cause everytime she saw the camera she freaked out. I did take A LOT of pictures of Marvin today and the other birds and put them on my webshots.
Marvin went outside on a leash today. He was scared and excited.lol
Well I have to run I'll be on soon again to explain more of Marvin's day (or you can put the story together by looking at the pictures.....videos are soon to come!).
Hilary Dawn

PS~oops got to put the address up eh!
http://community.webshots.com/user/keysca
I didn't have time to put up Black Beauty's pictures yet.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for all the terrific new photos, Hilary. I enjoyed them all. I can't tell for sure from the picture what that is in Marvin's mouth. Does it look like canker to you?

Terry


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Hey everyone,
I've never had a case of canker before so all I know is that it looks like "cottage cheese." It's white of the edges and then it turns to a yellowy color in the middle. I did touch it and it was hard in the middle and mushy on the outside. You would treat Canker with APO(AOP?) Matronodazol (sp?) right? We have some at work that I can use.
Well I'll tell you all about Marvin's day. Woke up at 5am talking to himself (or me, I don't know ) woke me up at 6am, I was able to ignore him till 7-7:30 then got up. Fed him, put his harness which took 10mins cause this was only his second time having it on I let him walk around to get used to it again, it was so funny, he'd jump, run, and side step to see if it would stay on. When He realized it wasn't coming off that's when he decided to listen to me and "step up" onto my hand for the leash to be clicked on. In front of my shed I hooked up to a post and put down his food, towel, toys, and a water pan. While he was walking around and explore I cleaned all the shed birds' dishes. I made a cage for him to stay in for the time being in the shed, untill he gets the avairy. He was a little upset but soon settled down and started to play with his toys (this is when I noticed "the spot"). I left his for awhile and went back out to clean out the avairy and he talked the whole time I was out there. 
New Avairy construction has been put on hold. My dad put in for his vaccation this week but the guys in the office didn't realize and booked the truck up all this week, so his not getting it now. Hopefully it'll be all good next week. 
Well I still have some cleaning outside to do and then I have to take Belle on a walk to get some money for the SPCA's annual "Paws for a Cause" dog jog.
I'll talk to you all later.
Hilary Dawn


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hilary, if Marvin had been around Elizabeth, maybe she had canker though much more advanced. It does look like canker to me. We also use metronidazole and have had good results with it.

I am really sorry Elizabeth passed away. I know you'll miss her.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hilary, 

Thank you for the pictures of Marvin, it looks like he enjoyed his day outside in the sun, bathing etc. That nodule on the roof of his upper mandible _does_ look like canker. Metronidazole as Maggie suggested and if you have it might be a good idea for him, even if that isn't canker. You might want to worm him as well because he likely has worms too. What are you feeding Marvin by the way? What are you long term plans for Marvin....are you going to keep him? Also, it looks like his tail is either broken off or not growing...what's happening there? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just sharing my observations from the pictures you posted

I really like the hospital cages for the birds, these seem sizeable and good temporary places for all the birds. Is this setup at your house or where you work?

Sorry to hear that the aviary construction has been put on hold, hopefully next week your dad will have the time to start on it.

Thanks again for all the pictures...I will go through them more thoroughly later on and when I'm at work


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

hey guys,
Marvin has only ever been in contact with Zara. He did drink out of her dish the night before but Zara's never had Canker, she could be a carrier tho.

What are you feeding Marvin by the way?
I'm feeding Marvin that mush recipie I had put up (cooked ground beed, vegies, fruits, vitimans,etc.). I also give him cut up apples, grapes, carrots, pieces of cooked meat, just about anything a crow or raven would eat in the wild. 

What are you long term plans for Marvin..?
Right now it's uncertain. My dad wants me to find him a home but my mom wants to keep him. I can find a home for Marvin really really easily but I do want to keep him. I did send an e-mail to the Sackville wildlife centre (Southern New Brunswick) telling them my situation and asking for help but the haven't gotting back to me yet.

his tail is either broken off or not growing...what's happening there?
Hmmmm. I acctually had to "trim" them. When I very first got him he was always banging against the cage and draging them though poop and food, so they were broken up and absolutly disgusting to look at or smell for that matter. So I trimed them, he's getting new ones in now tho.

Is this setup at your house or where you work?
My bank of cages in my my shed on my property here at home. I wasn't allowed to have anymore birds in my room cause of my sister. So I had moved them to the bathroom, but my cat Spaz likes the tub so he was getting upset about not being allowed in the bathroom. SOOO I moved them to the shelf above my computor, but the cats were a little bit too interested. Then they were moved to the shed when it was cleaned up really, really well. All this time they were in carrier or cages, not the bank. Then the summer of '05 work was getting rid of a bank of cage from our quarrinteen room cause the cats could break out of them (not cool when you walk into a small room and a feral cat is loose~got attack once cause of those cages) so I bought it for $40, took them home, didn't know where to put them so my dad suck it in the shed. He told me "NO birds till I get your own shed built." Well that didn't happen. It was rearranged the other day cause it was very, very cramped in there, but now it's spacous! MORE BIRDS! 

Bard, ask as many questions as you want it doesn't bother me. As long as we have an understanding, it's all good.

How much Metronidazole do I have to give Marvin (going to weigh him tonight)? I have the 250mg type by the way.
Thanks!
Hilary Dawn


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Marvin weighs 352g!
HD


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hilary, my dosage chart shows, for a 350 gram bird, the dosage of Metronidazole is 0.35 cc.

You probably know how to mix it but anyways here's how I do it. I crush the 250 mg. tablet into a very, very fine powder and mix it with 10 cc of distilled water, put it into a bottle (the brown kind from the vet's is what I use) shake the devil out of it and IMMEDIATELY draw it up into the syringe. Metronidazole is not great at being water soluble so you have to shake it vigorously and then draw it up so it doesn't settle back to the bottom. Give it twice daily, morning and then evening.

Hope this helps.


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Thanks Maggie,
Can I not just take a scraping and put it in his food or into his mouth? 
How many days does this late or is it till the canker is gone?
I'll start this treatment tomorrow morning since Marv is asleep right now.
Thanks again and Talk to ya later!
HD


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hilary, 

Thank you for all those answers to my questions Sounds like you're feeding Marvin a very nice and varied diet for sure...excellent! If I may suggest, you might want to think about adding some *purina beneful* dog kibble to his diet and when he's eating on his own, or his he now? The beneful is very nutritious for corvids and this can be used in combination with all the other things you are already feeding him.

Follow Maggie's instructions on the metro. This will hopefully clear up the possible canker but it also will work on certain bacterial problems he may have going on. 

Marvin is a light weight, eh?


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Hey Brad, quick posting here
I did try Marv on some dog food and it was a brand called "Gold active"? It has glocosamine (sp) which helps join fluilds/muscles from deminashing. But I will try him on the Bentiful.
HD

PS~light weight he's big to me! lol


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hilary, I just don't know about the scraping part but we give the liquid 7-10 days depending on how the canker looks. Also, forgot to mention that this needs to be kept in the refrigerator. My vet has always said if it is a medicine you make up yourself (or the vet does) it should always be kept in the fridge.

Maybe Pidgey will catch this and can tell you something about the scrapings.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Hilary, 

You could give the appropriate amout of metronidazole in a dissolveable pill capsule if you have the means. This is what I did for Henny when I was giving this medication to her. If you have it in powder form and can get the dose right, then you just put the powder in the pill capsule and pop down the throat. A good thing about the metro at least is that it has a fairly wide margin of safety so overdosing isn't likely...unless you really goof up on the dosing

Marvin is a light weight, lol...to me He weighs significantly less than a good sized homing pigeon but should weigh about the same as one. When Marvin is fully grown, he should weigh in the 400-450 gram range and if he's a crow. If Marvin is a raven, he should weigh between 900-1000 grams


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