# Help! My Husband brought home an orphan...(sorry for the length)



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

This baby pigeon is about 12-14 days old - I guessed that by comparing him to some pictures. His parents are gone and his nestmate is dead. He was found yesterday in the parking garage at the hospital where my Husband works- someone had taken the time to put the babies on a towel and give them a dish of water. He scooped the live baby and towels into a box and spent the day coaxing water into it on his breaks- it was aparently pretty dehydrated the poor mite. He brought it home last night and it was pretty bright and alert considering it hadn't been fed all day. I spent 10 minutes frantically reading - what to feed-how much-how to do it, not alot of info available to a not computer literate Mom in a hurry. Then I crop fed him about 15cc of handfeeding formula ( Kaytee) and bedded him down for the night. He was still alive and yelling for food this morning - so again crop feeding about 25cc of formula. Still alive a yelling for noms when I got home from work - he appears to have a strong feeding drive, I just need to know how to get him to eat - what kind of device can I rig up so he can suck the food out? ( someone on another forum sent me here (Wonka's rescuer)- and yet another suggested the "fat end" of an 8fr or 10fr catheter) How much do I feed him at one sitting - after work he got about 33cc of formula of the 40 I had - a great deal of it went all over - he frantically searches my hands for food. I have other birds and am a retired AHT - I know how to crop feed but that isn't the most desirable way to make this work - there are no rehabbers around and I don't know of any pigeon breeders. any help would be gratefully appreciated!


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

Anybody????


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ede-bird,



Well, make sure he is well hydrated...

Dissolve a pinch of Baking Soda, a pinch of Sugar, and a pinch of Salt, into a cup of tepid Water.

Water must be close to his own body temperature for him to willingly drink.

Lightly moisten your finger tips...have him on a towel on your lap...low Water cup in front of him...with slightly moist finger tip pads, gently get him 'Nuzzling' by softly grasping and massaging his Beak, and, guide his Nuzzling little Beak into the electrolyte Solution Water, keeping your finger tips on the sides of his Beak down by the root area...


And, he will gladly drink...


Once you two have done this a few times...do the exact same thing, only guiding his Beak into a low small Cup of whole small Seeds, such as a Finch or Canary Mix.


Keeping your finger tips on the sides of his Beak, imitating the 'feel' of his Beak being in his parent's Throat, he will gladly 'Gobble' the small whole Seeds, and be able to eat abundantly in this manner, with your help.

Do not over stuff him...


Images of the youngster?

Images of his poops also? Good, close up ones?


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Ede-bird.......a baby of 12/14 days old is on the brink of eating seeds on his own, but would still be being fed by his parents.

At this age, Kaytee formula is suitable. Between 25/30 cc's per feeding is sufficient and should be done 3 times a day. There is no need to feed him during the night. You can bundle him up in a towell burrito style and while sitting down place him between your knees. Gently open his beak and you can syringe feed him. There are many other ways to feed the formula.......do a search, there are plenty of pictures and instruction on this site.

Thanks for caring and saving this baby.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If he is about 14 days old does he have feathers and is his eyes open for you said maybe about that age..Feeding Kaytee is fine but don't give him much water unless he sucks it up himself (don't know how old) because the water in the Kaytee is enough. Make sure he is warm when you feed him and the Kaytee is warm as well. Some people use a kids baby bottle and they cut the end off of it and put a rubber glove over the end for him to put his beak in and eat on his own..Its a mess but he will really appreciate it.
Make sure he is warm when you feed him and the food is warm and he is ready to eat.
Other people will join this thread in time and give you amounts to feed the baby by for I just go by experience but the real dangers here are overfeeding and aspiration in the lungs by giving the baby water---thats why don't give him water. Some people use frozen peas and corn and they pop this into their mouths. I will give you a webpage from United Kingdom to look at at least a address....http://pigeonrescueuk.webs.com/ and also another her for reference on food if he is about that age...http://kjcii.webs.com/handfeeding.htm. If you could post a picture so the people here can see the age of the bird and advise. Be patient they will join this thread I am sure.. c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

See a experienced person joined already and you are in good hands now...c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Later when you get time after your young one is settled in---there is a real good thread that shows you feeding techniques (bottles and inventions) for feeding babies. Its under Wild Feral Pigeons and the title is : Best handfeeding technique This is Ridiculous and its by Insomniac posted on July 2nd..Shows you some very good pictures of things to use to help feed with....c.hert


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

Thank you all! I will try and attach the photo I took last night. I have budgie food, lovebird food and cockatiel food along with hand feeding formula. I have been looking at all of the wonderful info on this site and think that I might be able to come up with a way to get food in that isn't as invasive as crop feeding I will buy some canary seed tomorrow and give it a whirl. His parents are dead, so we are all he's got. My Husband wasn't going to leave him to die, and the hospital where he works will trap pigeons as a nuisance bird and give them to the "hawkman" I assume for training or feeding to his raptors. He is so ugly that he's cute and boy does he seem huge to me - I'm calling "him" Cooter 
View attachment 16105

I will start weighing him tonight too- to ensure that he is gaining weight. Thanks again for taking the time to help a newbie


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## Nature_Lover (Jun 19, 2010)

you could use a plastic syrinige and when his crop feels soft (and looks) and pretty full you should stop (the crop is the chest area right below the neck).
Here is a video on the syrinige feeding:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8404110635196534861#

Good Luck!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Very pretty litle 'Squeaker' there...unusual coloring.

If you are willing to try the methods I outlined, your problems will be solved safely and with no need of any invasive or tiresome measures.

I raise endless orphans, and, those are what I do once they are of this age...it takes a little finesse is all...and it also very soon leads to them eating independently with never any 'weaning' issues.


Please make sure he is getting adequate hydration...Babys and youngsters require more hydration than adults...and, feeding 'formula' also increases the need for additional hydration between meals.

Images of the poops?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Also be vigilant on his\her condition - if you see listlessness or sleepiness, closed eyes or suddenly quiet - your pal will need meds pretty fast. But if he\she remains alert and interested and vocalizng - those are good signs. Formula's good for another few days - then at about 17-19 days would switch to veggie-popping peas and corn and seed. Thank your husband for the great save !!!!


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

it's going to become a very beautiful bird. there's nothing wrong with how you're feeding it right now, just make sure that the crop empties at least once every 24 hours. spend time cuddling it and you'll be rewarded later.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

c.hert, that is a greaty link to the hand feeding using mash page. I will add that link to thye Caring for a Baby pigeon page on my webiste. Thank you.

Cynthia


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

Well he ate about 17cc this morning with the syringe that has the end of the 8fr catheter that I cut off and attached to it - I say about because we sort of got it all over I will get a photo of his poops too - all I say about them is that they look like typical bird poops only they seem rather huge ( compared to the Budgies, Lovies, Grass Keet and Tiels that we have). I was leery about moving him into the house because I don't have a really great isolation area- he has been in the shed, so he's sheltered and secure from predators, but it is supposed to hit 38C starting today and it will turn into an oven out there - so he's moving into the laundry room. Thanks for all of your help!!! This is a wonderful site!!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Please consider the Small whole Seed method, and, the drinking method I had outlined in Post #3.


It would be so much easier, and safer for him, and a lot less hassle for you, and will also allow him to be self feeding very soon.

You could continue to do formula-feeding along with this if you like...but if you are getting it all over, you are risking his life with wrong method.

If you have No. 8 Fr Catheters and Syringes, you can then tube feed into his Crop, so nothing gets anywhere.

However, make very sure you are clearly distinguishing his Esophagus, from his Trachea if doing so.


Cut the Catheter to be about 5 inches long, cut the end at a diagonal and soften the cut over a flame for a split second.


Lube the Catheter with Olive Oil so it slides in easily without friction...have the Bird's Neck straight up and be very sure you are seeing into his Throat to see exactly what you are doing.


If you have been squirting formula into his mouth, it is a miricle you have not killed him yet from aspiration accident.

Their reflexes are not geared to artificial and un-Natural introductions of liquids into their Mouths.


Please, do not be trying to introduce any liquids or water based foods into his mouth.


Either let him eat and drink naturally, as I had tried to describe to you, or, if you wish to insist to force feed, please take pause, and do it correctly, or do not not at all...done wrong, it is very easy to kill the Baby.


There is no need of force and imposition when the young Pigeon would be glad to eat and drink normally, and glad to grow up and develop normally and successfully, if one merely take pause to work with them in their terms and Natural History, for them to do so.


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I tried to take a picture of his poops - sigh- but on the white towel it got kind of mashed in, so I will put him on some white paper and try again. I scrapped the catheter and made a syringe feeder like in the video posted and it worked like a charm - he was so hungry when I got home!!! I normally only work at my job ( semi-retired) about 6 hours a day but the last 2 days have been 10 hours long - thank goodness that is done with. Now I will try the seeds and water. I am a retired AHT and have 18 other birds and I do know how to crop feed safely, ( it is sure easier and safer that neonatal mammals!)and did it a couple of times at the start because he needed the food so desperately. I would much rather have him eating in a more natural manner - he is an entirely new way of feeding - every other orphan has been a small bird that will gape for food. Are seeds and water a sufficient diet to switch him too??? I cook for my other birds, mashes, birdie breads, and tons of fresh fruit and veggies, and they get pellets too. Is any of this suitable?? I'm learning on the fly here and sure do appreciate all of the help. thanks again!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sure sounds like you are doing a wonderful job and thanks for helping animals and birdies. c.hert


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

The pigeonrescueuk link you posted, c. hert, is EXCELLENT!! Have added to my favorites!!

Many thanks!!

Love and Hugs
Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ede-Bird,


Cooked foods would not be good.

Pigeons are Granivorious, and, whole raw Seeds are the basis of their diet.

Pigeons can benifit from very finely chopped Leafy Greens, such as Cilantro, Kales, Chards...so long as the bits are very small.

They can benifit from finely chopped Apple or Pear also, or, for having unsweetened, natural, organic, Apple or Pear Sauce in their Formula.

Working with them for their drinking volitionally with guidence ( Water must be close to their own Body temperature ) as I had outlined...going from then, to guiding their Beak into a small low deep container of small whole Seeds for them to 'gobble
' ( Finch or Canary Seed Mix ) follows easily then...

This very soon leads to them pecking and self feeding, which must be allowed only under supervision so they do not over-eat.

Formula Tube Feeds may be continued in addition to their eating Seeds, for suppliying the most nitrition and variety possible, as they are growing and developing.

Appropriate Grit should also be added to their Seeds.

Formula should be 'soupy' and never thick.

Drinking between meals is important.


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

For him to drink...the Water has to be tepid.


You have to get him 'Nuzzling' ( asking to be fed or watered) by softly massaging his mid to mouth-area Beak with your finger tips...if finger tips are slightly moist, it is best.

Once he is 'Nuzzling', you softly guide his 'Nuzzling' Beak into the "tepid" Water, and you keep your finger tips on the sides of his Beak down by the mouth area, and, if you do this, he will drink.

They normally eat and drink from their parent's Throats...hence, the Water is always close to body temperature.

If the Water is not close to body temperature, he will refuse it.

Also, they wish to 'feel' something like what having their Beak in their parent's Throat was like, to understand someone wishes to feed or water them.

Once having done this with him for him to drink, so you both have it down...then, do the same thing, only this time, with small whole dry Seeds in a small deepish Cup.

And, if you do it right, KEEPING YOUR Finger Tips along the sides of his Beak close to the Mouth, he will shove his Beak into the Seeds and be "Gobbling" them just as if they were in his parent's Throat.

This very soon then leads to his pecking at the Seeds also, and, gaining prowess in self feeding by Pecking.


Like that...


One other very important thing - 

Begin now if you can...find a safe place where wild Pigeons graze...put out Seeds for them...set your youngster among them, and crouch down a few feet away...keeping yourself sstill and keeping your arms and hands down low and still.

He needs to learn to be with them, and, this is a good time to begin.

He will also see them pecking, and, he will wish to emulate them.

This needs to be done several times, on successive days, six or eight or ten times if you can...and it needs to be done before he begins flying...so now is a good time to begin.

This allows him to learn to be self confident and assertive among the wild and feral adults...

This also allows him to acquire the Wild modes of awareness and response he will get from being among them...and which he will need later.

Find a safe place for this where things may be relaxed and easy.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

In effect, there are three co-existent and overlapping dimensions for raising an Orphan Pigeon Baby or Youngster - 

1 ) Provide safety, emotional and physical comfort and security...freedom from anxiety, intimate unambiguous 'presence' and attentions of the Care Giver to the Baby/Youngster, happiness.

2) Provide nourishment and hydration in forms and ways which are natural and easy for the Bird to accept and flourish with.

3) Provide deferential and intentional opportunity for the youngster's growth and development in all phases and fronts, including to support and encourage their progress toward independence and self reliance, under one's supervision and care.


We can not do things in the same way their Parents would have.


None the less, we can accomplish all the salient results, just as well, by our own means, so long as we recognise, respect and defer, to the actual conditions and needs of the youngster, in their terms, as they grow and develop.

Thus, a self confident, independent, able, and savvy-enough sub-adult, may be released in a smooth transition, after having been 'hand raised'.


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## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I met a pigeon fancier right here in this little town! He must have 100 birds on his acreage in huge outdoor lofts - he has 23 or 27 different species, from tiny little doves that can fit in my hand to great huge German something or others. Birds with frills, birds with feathery feet, birds with hardly any beak at all (owls??). He is a kind and generous soul who as offered to help teach me ( I guess at 50 I'm not too old to learn something new!). Cooter is doing great!!! Right now the only place that I see feral pigeons is by the road and railway tracks where the grain cars on the train unload - but I'll keep looking for a safe place to try and let him learn how to be a pigeon. If I fail at this he will always have a safe home here for as long as he lives ( my husband is already looking at loft plans  Who knew that he had a soft spot for pigeons!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Ede-bird said:


> I met a pigeon fancier right here in this little town! He must have 100 birds on his acreage in huge outdoor lofts - he has 23 or 27 different species, from tiny little doves that can fit in my hand to great huge German something or others. Birds with frills, birds with feathery feet, birds with hardly any beak at all (owls??). He is a kind and generous soul who as offered to help teach me ( I guess at 50 I'm not too old to learn something new!). Cooter is doing great!!! Right now the only place that I see feral pigeons is by the road and railway tracks where the grain cars on the train unload - but I'll keep looking for a safe place to try and let him learn how to be a pigeon. If I fail at this he will always have a safe home here for as long as he lives ( my husband is already looking at loft plans  Who knew that he had a soft spot for pigeons!!


That is fantastic!


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