# Found dove attacked by cat - desperately seeking extra input



## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Last night my boyfriend found a turtleneck dove - minus lots of feathers on our door step. He decided to keep it in a darkened box until i came home from work - and then we gave it some lukewarm water - and heat (hot water bottle wrapped in lots of towels) 

I have taken the poor thing to a vet, and gotten it some antibiotics. The antibiotics recommended (by phone to an avian vet to my vet) were clavulox (amoxycillin with clavulic acid) . the dove weighs 150 gms. i have given the first dose of 0.24 mls 

i was recommended to instead use baytril by another avian vet - unfortunately they would not prescribe the medication without seeing the bird, and i couldn't get to that clinic before they closed. 

The bird is pooping, is fluffing out its feathers, drinking (only when offered water), we are slowly increasing the amount of defrosted corn/peas we are giving it. 

I have cleaned both of its wounds with normal saline - it appears to possibly have a puncture wound to the back (couldn't find the source of dried blood) and a very large wound underneath its body approximately at the level of the base of keel and the patella. I have flushed this partially with normal saline, and then removed dried blood with sterile gauze. the wound length is approximately 5-8 cms long. I didn't get a good look at the bottom of the wound though. 


My questions are:
- does the antibiotic it is on provide adequate cover, and would it appear to be a good dose? (it is an oral formulation) 
- should i be using an additional antibiotic 
- what else to do with the wound 
- any other advice? 

thanks!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Kams, 


Small whole Seeds, as for Parakeets or Canaries and the like, would be good to offer in addition to the defrosted Corn and Peas.


The low wound...can you post some images?


What did the Vet pronounce regarding it?


A systemic Oral Antibiotic, either Baytril/Cipro/Enroflaxyn ( all in effect the same), or, Clavamox, is good for occasions of a Bird having escaped a predation scenario...so, good that is begun.


How the wound should be treated will depend on the wound...as for whether Sutures would be prefered, or, as may be.


It is difficult to locate small punctures or other small wounds on Birds...they have so many dense Feathers to try and part, to be able to see...and can be difficult to feel even, but, those small injuries which are mere abrasions or small tears can be easily dabbed with any Topical antibiotic Creme or Ointment.

Punctures, ideally, if identified as such, are best to be sluiced out from their bottom, with a fine blunt tipped syringe-fitting or thin angle-cut-end catheter section, using tepid Saline, followed by any handy Oral Antibiotic dissolved in tepid Saline...where, the punctures may then be gently dabbed with any Antibiotic ointment or Creme thereafter.

Silvasulfadiazine is a favorite, if your Vet or Pharmacist/Chemist can provide, and, over here, usually, it requires a perscription.

'Neosporin' or kindred 'Triple-Antibiotic' Topical Ointments are non-perscription here, and, likely where you are also, and they are just fine also.


Warmth, quiet, a draped Cage which may feel like a safe and private condition for the Dove, and a minimum of stimulous/sounds/people-activity within view and earshot...are good in these occasions.

I do not know how to evaluate the Antibiotic dose without knowing the concentration of the solution.



Phil
Lv


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The amoxycillin/ clavulanic acid combinations is said to be the best antibiotic for cat caught birds, prompt treatment should stop them developing pasteurella septicemia or pasteurellosis

The dose is up to 50 mgs per kilo twice a day if given by injection or up to 125mgs per kilo three times a day (three times daily) orally- up to 3 weeks. Dose and dosing interval determined by infection site, severity and organism involved.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=136111&postcount=1

Flushing with sterile saline and debriding once a day should help the wound heal from the inside.

I keep the wound moist by smearinf a colloidal gel over it, the one I use is called Intrasite Gel.

Cynthia


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

firstly, thank you both for your prompt responses. I work in a hospitaland should be able to get a script tomorrow afternoon for the silvazine. i figured if that one is better i will get it - i know it works wonders on burns. 

i have given 'midget' (as he was named, in order to be seen by a vet) - lots of canary seed in a container that is within beaks reach - so is a deep tub of water. I have seen him touch neither, but when water is offered he drinks deeply. i will continue with the peas and corn and have the canary seed available. 

I am somewhat optimistic because today he seems out of shock - he is starting to be startled and alarmed at intrusions into his 'personal space' around him - and is trying to fly away from us.

As to what the vet pronounced - she was not an avian specialist and got me to hold the bird the whole time - she said that she couldn't really comment on its severity. if it survives until monday (when I work a pm, rather than an AM shift), i will take it to a avian specialist. for proper assessment of the wound. 

i will also get some intrasite gel, that should hopefully be available at the hospital pharmacy. thank you for your advice re irrigation of the puncture wound, pdpbison, and cynthia for the recommendation of intrasite. 

as for the dosage, i am not sure if it is correct then - they have prescribed .24 of a ml when the strength is 50 mg /ml. the bird weight is 150 grms. to me that seems slightly low - per dose that works out approximately to 12.5 mg - should be more like 17-18 mg? if you guys reckon the dose should be a tad higher, let me know! its a pretty big wound 

i will try and drag the bf away from the football to take some photos for me  i have to clean the big wound again before bed anyway. 

i have found all of your advice very specific and helpful, thank you very much 

susie


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

after looking properly at the wound to try and take a photo, i must say i am a little freaked out, the large wound at the under junction of keel and leg goes up and backwards - we can see what the bird equivalent of a peritoneal sac moving with every breath. that said, i still gave it a ns flush. hope that was the right move - none of the organs were visible. 

if this bird is still alive, does it really have a chance? it is digesting.... and pooping..and drinking..and eating..the wound is just so bad. 

i will try and upload a photo once i figure out how to bluetooth it - i couldnt get a very good photo. 

they all turned out dark! 

suz


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yes, it stands a good chance, we have had a lot of cases where a bird has survived terrible injuries. Personally, I believe that if a bird wants to live it should be given that chance and this bird has shown no sign of giving up..however, I think that perhaps you should hold back on the flushing now...just in case....I will also e-mao Pidgey to have a look at this thread.


This is a link to a thread about a pigeon that came very close to being euthanased...she is still alive and well!

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=19312&postcount=1


Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, they can certainly survive some pretty ugly wounds, like Pierpont here (thread contains pictures):

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

With doves, you kinda' need to protect them from their own nervousness. Phil always pads the tops of their cages with foam for when they fly up in a panic, which is a great idea because they WILL do it.

By the way, could you post some pictures of the wound?

Pidgey


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

lets see if this attachment works. ahah it did. the big red thing at the bottom left is a thumb. you can see an internal damaged membrane stretched across the middle of the wound (i dont want to take any more pictures as due to the wounds location near its leg it could do itself more damage if we fiddle with it too much). it somehow looks smaller in the picture but is actually approximately 8 cm wide when fully open. and im guessing about 4-5 cm deep


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

another bad photo - if you see the bottom picture wound is to the inside of the thigh,


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Probably oughta' take your next pictures a bit further back...

Anyhow, that might be similar to this one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/rough-weekend-16964.html

http://community.webshots.com/album/553159015dObcmS

That one had been shot and the hole actually just rotted out. She healed, though, in the end.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kams,



Pictures of the Dove's face and profile also?


This may even be a fledgling who while having figured out how to drink, may not have figured out how to eat/peck yet, and, was still being fed by her parents.


Keep everything just lightly moist with the wound and it's edges, with the Silvasulfadiazine...by Monday, the lips or edges of the skin will have changed and thickened and it may be much harder to Suture, if the Avian Vet finds Suturing appropriate.


I can not say from the images, what a correct address would be far as Suturing or if merely sluice/clean and fold together as best one can and tape roughly lined up and closed by a sanitary wrap going around the Body...either can work well, and, it depends on details.

Dosage seemed low to my fast math attempt also.


Often, these meds are fairly forgiving dose wise, but, of course it is best to try and be correct with it.


Any 'yellow' tints to the Urates?



Phil
Lv


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

just a quick update with the dove...it is still alive and kicking! upped the antibiotic dose slightly, and did some rather extensive wound flushing and packing with intrasite - on the basis that given it will have to wait until tuesday, it needs something to provide a moist wound environment (in case sutures dont pan out) i also brought the silver sulfazine cream - is it best to be sparing, or lather it on? 

the dove became quite freaked out when we packed the wound with intrasite - started closing its eyes, which i figured was shock. seems fine now though

poos - the poo color has changed. from a mud brown, with yellow, to a dark green (??) with lots of plain white urates. The poos are quite large (pigeon size!) but the green part seems well digested. the crop is going down daily in the morning. the bird is still not (that I see) eating and drinking on its own - but will drink water if offered. 

i am actually feeling quite positive at the moment - overall it has improved from when we first had it -will wrap a towel around the lid tomorrow in case it starts to get frisky. 

fingers crossed, (now the intrasite gel business is one) 

one last question - how often must we feed it? we have been feeding it 3 times per day with increasing amounts per feed


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thanks to the link of the bird you treated pidgey. that makes me feel a bit more reassured having checked out those pictures. i think the shot wound that the bird had is very similar to that of my dove.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Kamz,



Yes...a thin cloth draped over a Box or Bin or other, soft Towel on the inside Bottom, makes a good set-up for a convelescent Dove.

If a Cardboard Box, cut a few small holes in the sides at their Eye level, so they can see out, while feeling no one can see in.


Once feeling a little better, they can and will launch 'up' like-a-Rocket, and any 'hard' lid or top can see them knock themselves out cold, or break their neck.


Glad to hear the Urates are now 'white'.

'Yellow' indicates infection byproducts being processed.

30-40 poops-a-day ( ie 24 hours) tells us a Dove or Pigeon is eating ( or being fed ) enough. If poops are big, then fewer is just as good as more when smaller, of course.


This may well be a recent fledgling ( they will look about like adults ) who had not yet learned to eat on their own, and was still being fed by mom and dad.


If you can get the little one to 'Nuzzle' ( see my recent mentions to 'rackerman' - Post # 8 - which describes getting them to 'gobble' small whole Seeds from a Shot Glass...) then they can soon progress onto Pecking and self feeding.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/hard-time-hand-feeding-the-babies-44257.html 

Young Doves will do this just as well as young Pigeons, if possibly prefering the smallest kinds of whole Seeds, such as Canary or Finch or Parakeet Seed mixes since their little Beaks are so much smaller than a same age Pigeon ).


Good luck!


Water should be tepid for them to drink at this age...then can be merely room temperature once they have shown they are drinking on their own for a few days, a willingness to drink when tepid Water is offered.



Phil
Lv


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

good news..the little one started eating canary seed on its own last night. hasnt repeated that this morning, but is still reacting more (in fear) to us humans, which i see as a good thing. 

antibiotics continued, poos looking good (but stringy white urates) 

i'm popping up more photos (hopefully better contrast)

you can see that it is missing all its tail feathers, and part of the wing feathers, from whatever attacked it


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi kamz, 


Metronidazole might be a good idea...concurrent with the Antibiotic.


Might clear up the 'stringy' Urates...( which is to say, might clear up what is causing them ).


Phil
Lv


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thank you phil. I will ask the vet about the metronidazole tomorrow - i am taking the little one (which is now sometimes eating canary seed all on its ownsome!) into the avian vet tomorrow. 

Am a little bit nervous, as i am technically asking him to suture up a bird i intend on returning to the wild. In australia, all feral birds are required to be put down by vets if brought to a veterinary center.

The bird seems perkier, and is even more resistant (and mobile) than before. I think that must be a sign that the antibiotics and silver sulfazine are working well. 

thanks for all your help phil, 


Susie


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Do you have to tell the vet it is a wild bird? We (forum members) tell vets our feral rescues are pet birds....I found this adverts when I did a search for "turtleneck dove" and vets:

_Lost TurtleNeck Dove with blue ID band on leg. Much loved family pet. ... if found or seen please ring me or take to local vet. Under Vet care, .. ...
brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-offered-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZofferedQQPageZ7_


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

mm......i think the vet will know it is not a pet as he is aware that i only have one bird :/ bringing a turtleneck dove in i can pretend i am intending on keeping it..i think i will let his reaction guide mine...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Good luck!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Gets tricky...




With-hold food and water for say six hours prior to any anticipated Suturing procedure...since, for one thing, the Bird may have to be held upside down or at odd angles for the procedure to be done, and one does not want to risk Crop contents inadvertantly coming up and compromising the Bird's Breathing or coercing an aspiration event.

What gets tricky also, is how neatly and fast a wound may be Sutured with one person merely holding the Bird somewhat vertically and elbow high, as the Vet does the Sutures...


Vis a vie, Vets who may insist on removing the Bird to some other areas while you wait, and, using global Anaesthetic, which, in my experience, 9 times out of 10, killed the Bird, even when the wound was not life threatening.

The only real point of Anaesthesia for topical addresses or Suturing, is to keep the patient secure or still so Sututing may proceed easily and fast...and not to alleviate 'pain'...and given the pain the Wounds can be imagined to involve already, I have yet to see a Bird appear to mind being Sutured or where any discomfort or objection with the procedure was seen to be remarkable.

Having lost 9 out of 10 in those instances where I permitted a use of global Anaesthesia, I thenceforth refused to allow Anaesthesia, and, with my sympathetic Vet, never lost one since from any Suturing procedure.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

alright.. the bird has returned alive from the vet, with sutures. i was concerned about the general anesthetic, but the bird survived it. however, whilst it has sutures, the vet had to debride alot of the skin, and says that if the bird moves much, it may rip the sutures. 

Also, the vet did not properly flush the wound (she mentioned the fine line between death and anesthesia with birds....)..so i am a little worried about the prospect of internal infection. a drainage gap in the suture line was left, and i have now got a higher dose of amoxycillin for the bird (.3 mls..which I had upped it to anyway  

still, fingers crossed, i gave the bird a tepid drink of water , and am now leaving it alone for a few hours. i am going to flush its wounds with sterile saline once it has recuperated from the shock a little .


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

With birds, you kinda' need to hit 'em with the general anesthetic strong up front and then taper it off so that they're not under so deeply during the bulk of the procedure. You're only really trying to manage shock and limit reflexes. It's best to see some slight reflexes when you're putting the suture needle through the skin. They're not actually going to respond to sewing a crop up or stuff inside the abdominal area (like suturing or clipping the oviduct, for example) but their skin seems to have plenty of nerves.

Pidgey


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thats interesting pidgey. i take it you are rather experienced with the anesthetics  oh well, i'll take the little one to my regular experienced avian vet in a couple of days if it doesnt seem to be on the mend.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

took the bird back to my regular avian vet, who picked up that it had roundworms./...the bird has been treated, and i am awaiting the worms! 

otherwise, the vet thinks the bird is health and in good condition - the wound is intact - he has said not even to flush it with saline, but just let it be (phew)

the bird has started eating a small grain pigeon mix on its own - and drank water on its own just before! 

the only other concern is that its elbow is swollen - so when the flights go back i will have to get it reassessed to see if it is suitable for release. the age of the bird is estimated at between 6 months to 3 years. 

i am having some ethical issues about releasing the dove. On one hand, it came from a life of freedom. On the other, it is an introduced species. I am not sure whether it would be better to keep it as a pet, or let it go back to the life it was leading before hand. 

oh well, i have a bit of time to think about it  it only has one tail feather left!


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