# How do i protect my baby fantail doves?



## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

As above really.
At the point where they have left the nest but cant fly how do I stop cats getting them?
I have just lost the baby born over Christmas, no signs of a struggle and he was almost able to fly.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Where are the doves housed?

If they are in a cote or any structure which is accessible to cats or rats or other predators then you can't protect them - that simple.

Best place is in a loft, aviary or inside a building.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Put them in a cage untill they can fly and if free flying, you have lots of risk for all kinds of predators, you need to be MUCH more specific in what you are asking. MORE details.


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## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

They are free flying birds housed in a cote that is high enough so no predators can get to them.
Its just the bit where they drop from the nest and just walk around on the ground for a week before flying that im concerned about.

Am I right in thinking that at this point they are eating seed without the help of the parents?
If this is the case I can easily build a large aviary like I did when I first got the doves.
once they are flying I can dismantle it.
Would this be a solution?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

At this point they will need to learn to eat seed, but the parents must still be able to feed them. You would have to construct a fence or something that cats couldn't get over, and believe me, they are able to get over many fences. And hawks could still get them. A loft set up is safer.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello enviro-pc
Welcome to PT
They are pet doves not wild. In the wild, accidents do happen and we stay oblivious of them. Young are especially vulnerable. If you've left them to nature then let nature take its course, but ofcourse this isn't what you want...
So,,,they must be protected and given a safe enclosure until they become independent. They usually start to try to pick seeds up on their own when they get 22-25 days old. At 28-35 days old they usually eat on their own satisfactorily.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

All depends on where they are fed as well. You can't give a definite timeline on when they are eating seed on their own. If fed in the nest box with the parents, then they learn fast. If they go out of the cote with the parents to eat seed, then they still have to learn, as they learn by watching the parents. So depends on whether or not they have had the opportunity to do that. Eventually they do learn on their own, but they learn faster by watching others. At that age, you can supply them with seed and watch to see if they are actually eating, or just picking it up and tossing it. You can help to wean them if you put them in an enclosure without parents. They must also be shown water and make sure they know how to drink on their own.


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## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

Thankyou all very much for your help.
I think what I will do is build an enclosure beneath the dovecote out of wooden poles and the same netting I used to keep them all trapped on the first month I got them.
That way they will jump out the nest into an area where the parents can get to them but a cat can not get into as there will be nothing solid to climb on.
Ill keep my fingers crossed the hawks don't see them but im pretty sure it was a cat that took the last one.
I will post pictures of my enclosure once its built


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## Maclofts (Dec 14, 2014)

A key point also is to use smaller wiring for your loft because when I first started out, I used regular chicken wire and that caused it to be "rat-haven" also it's big enough for predators to get through... A stray cat once got in my loft like that because that kinda wire is just not strong/firm enough...  looks like your doing great! Just make sure to take these extra precautions to not have big losses in the future


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

enviro-pc said:


> Thankyou all very much for your help.
> I think what I will do is build an enclosure beneath the dovecote out of wooden poles and the same netting I used to keep them all trapped on the first month I got them.
> That way they will jump out the nest into an area where the parents can get to them but a cat can not get into as there will be nothing solid to climb on.
> Ill keep my fingers crossed the hawks don't see them but im pretty sure it was a cat that took the last one.
> I will post pictures of my enclosure once its built


This will be a fatal error in a matter of time, BOTH hawks and owls will kill these birds. Go find honk and peaks mom posting of just such an occasion after we all warned her so, not two days later dead bird with hawk sitting on top eating her beloved bird. Came thru a two inch hole at top of coop. 

Yours is OPEN for them to come and go. Hawks and owls DO and WILL see them, so depending on the degree of love you have for your birds, you may act accordingly. I suggest you UN cross your fingers and do the due diligence so as not to have the same thing happen thanks.
Best of luck.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hawks are everywhere, and if there are birds for the taking, they know it. I would never chance anything like that and hope that a hawk wouldn't get one of my birds. Up to us to keep them safe if we are going to keep them.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I believe the owls on your side of the pond are somewhat bigger than ours


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

John_D said:


> I believe the owls on your side of the pond are somewhat bigger than ours


John, google owls in your neck of the woods, I believe we all have the same few species althought slightly different in names eg:

We have great horned owls BIG
Screech owls
Barn owls
Short eared owls
Boreal owls
Saw Whet owls
Long eared owls
Barred owls Med
Great Grey owls, look bigger than horned but not by weight Big
Snowy owls Med

Im pretty sure you have a similar variety but slightly different names.

None the less a TON of predators in each category, dont get me started on hawk names lol.......Point is, you dont know what u dont know  What I DO know is her birds are at risk guaranteeed!!!! Matter of time.


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## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

I know that we have 3 hawks that tend to stay around the paddocks at the top end of the village by the pub and they hardly every hover above or near our house but I guess they might have changed hunting patterns but I don't think so because at our old house when the hawk came we had no song birds in the a garden for the rest of the day, it was like they all hid or flew away but in this case nothing seems out of place, even the chickens and the doves parents seem unaffected but what ever happened to the baby.

OK so...if the next babies need to be enclosed then my original question stands.
At the point that they drop from the dovecote do they need the parents to feed them or can I lock them up safely and just feed them dove food until they can fly?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

No, the parents still have to feed them for about a month and show them how to feed themselves. When you see that the parents dont feed them anymore and that they ARE eating on their own then u can separate them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can try to wean them earlier, by introducing them to seed, and try to get them to peck at it. By leaving a dish of food in the nest box with them, my babies learn early how to eat seed from watching their parents eating. Also need to make sure they are drinking on their own before separating them.


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## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

The problem is not with the dovecote as that is high enough so no predators can get anywhere near it unless they have wings.
The problem is when the babies drop to the floor before they can fly.
The Hawks have not bothered my adult fantails at all.

So what do you lot do with your doves that are located in a high and safe cote when they drop out and can not fly.

Im thinking an enclosure with an open top that no predators without wings can get into would at least protect them from ground based predators.

The parents are free flying so short of buying a shed and locking all the doves in until the babies are big enough I cant see any other option


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Well you can always buy some shrubs and plant them around so they have places to hide thats what they would do in nature. You cant have it both ways, they ARE at risk for hawks and owls, crows and bluejays and anything winged. So other than decided to domesticate them and have a coop, nothing u can do but watch and pray and thats it. They are wild, and some are gonna get eaten whether u like it or not. Housing them in a coop is another story but then they are not wild. Decision is yours. You could always pick up the babies, finish feeding them yourself by housing them in a cage and then setting them free. I would say, just leave them be, the parents will feed and train them where to get food and then drive them off out of territory when old enough and train them to be hawk wise and the ones that arent will get eaten, thats just nature in the life of wild doves.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

CBL said:


> Well you can always buy some shrubs and plant them around so they have places to hide thats what they would do in nature. You cant have it both ways, they ARE at risk for hawks and owls, crows and bluejays and anything winged. So other than decided to domesticate them and have a coop, nothing u can do but watch and pray and thats it. They are wild, and some are gonna get eaten whether u like it or not. Housing them in a coop is another story but then they are not wild. Decision is yours. You could always pick up the babies, finish feeding them yourself by housing them in a cage and then setting them free. I would say, just leave them be, the parents will feed and train them where to get food and then drive them off out of territory when old enough and train them to be hawk wise and the ones that arent will get eaten, thats just nature in the life of wild doves.



Pretty much sums it up. All you can do is to give them places to find cover, and hope for the best.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Our owls are

Barn owl
Little owl
Short-eared owl
Long-eared owl
Tawny owl

Our hawk that takes anything up to wood pigeon size is the Eurasian Sparrow Hawk. In some areas, racing pigeons are frequently prey of the Peregrine Falcon, which is the true wild rock dove's only consistent natural avian enemy.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

John_D said:


> Our owls are
> 
> Barn owl
> Little owl
> ...


Yup just as I tried to explain, each country has their 'version' of the same hawk with a slightly different name eg: your Eurasian sparrow hawk is our 'sharp shinned/sparrow hawk' So when people say, oh we dont have hawks here, or they never come around this area are just kidding themselves. They ARE everywhere, u just dont see them daily UNTIL you have a feed supply of pigeons or doves. THEN you will more likely see them closer buy or literally at the time they are eating your pet. So please take heed, they ARE everywhere, keep your birds safe and be aware, we have collective experience and dont post lightly.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Yes indeed - we had a hawk chase a Eurasian Collared Dove into the vacant house next door one time, but the hawk couldn't get through the window. That was one fortunate dove. Hawk had been perched right outside our kitchen on a spade handle!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

John_D said:


> Yes indeed - we had a hawk chase a Eurasian Collared Dove into the vacant house next door one time, but the hawk couldn't get through the window. That was one fortunate dove. Hawk had been perched right outside our kitchen on a spade handle!


Ya they are fearless and aggressive like air wolves. When I saw the coopers manouvers and tenacity even with a bumb leg, how it crawled like a dog under the coop, I thought, these things are like wolves, they wont stop at anything to get fed. Since they fly, I labelled them 'airwolves'. Facinating and horrifying all at once. Fascinating to watch but horrifying if they get your pet birds.


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## enviro-pc (Feb 14, 2015)

Brilliant explanations.
I think I have all the info I need now.

We have a very long row of conifers at the bottom of the garden so they will have plenty of places to hide as well.
I will never coop the birds up as I think they should be as wild as possible but just well fed.

Thanks again guys


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