# Smelly crop, black poop, puffed feathers?



## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Out of the two born about 2-3 weeks ago, one of them I think is sick. Her poop is black, I guess like tar. Her mouth is slightly open and has a foul odor. Her neck feathers are puffed and her crop looks full but is empty. We gave her an antibiotic that we had on hand and put her in a box with a infrared lamp. We put water in there as well. However, I don't know if this is what I should be doing. I don't know if I'm paranoid or if she should be seen. We took her out of the loft just in case. I caught a mouse in there the other day and don't know if that could have anything to do with this. Any suggestions?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What medications do you have?

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That sounds like sour crop and you will need to act fast as it can be deadly. Do you have a vet you can take the baby to?
Until then keep him warm and do not feed. Do you have an oral antifungal like Nystatin? If you give oral antibiotics he won't be absorbing them because of his sour crop so it is useless. Rather give him injectable if you have any. Nystatin acts locally so you could give that.
A vet would flush the crop and that would be the best thing to do at this point.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can smear the black poop out on a white piece of paper to see if it's really a dark green. Black tarlike poops can sometimes indicate internal bleeding into the intestines. You don't usually see that in one so young but it's possible you've got an enteric Paratyphoid. Sour breath is probably more often caused by canker but I think other things can do it.

Pidgey


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

So many diseases that pigeons can get. This is crazy. How can someone keep up or remember all this. We gave her something that the vet gave us awhile ago when a bird had a broken wing, to fight infection if there were any. Its called Trimethoprim Sulfa oral susp. I'll get her to the vet first thing tomorrow. Do you think she'll make it that long? She had been in the loft with the other birds, can she have passed it to them? What is "sour crop"? *How do birds get this or even Canker? *


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Agree with Pidgey*



Janet said:


> Out of the two born about 2-3 weeks ago, one of them I think is sick. Her poop is black, I guess like tar. Her mouth is slightly open and has a foul odor. Her neck feathers are puffed and her crop looks full but is empty. We gave her an antibiotic that we had on hand and put her in a box with a infrared lamp. We put water in there as well. However, I don't know if this is what I should be doing. I don't know if I'm paranoid or if she should be seen. We took her out of the loft just in case. I caught a mouse in there the other day and don't know if that could have anything to do with this. Any suggestions?


Foul smell indicates either sourcrop (I think most likely) or canker. You can look in the mouth and see a cheesy looking substance that smells very bad and it often is outside the mouth as well. This would be canker.

Either one of these is very easy to cure with the right meds and if it's sourcrop, you may already have the cure as a quarter tab of Pepto Bismol orally for a few days will cure it.

If it is canker, you need a stronger med and there are pills or water soluble liquids and powders. I like the pills as they are very simple to use. You can give 250mg of Emtryl tablets for about 3 days and it will usually cure it. The tablets that I have are for treating turkeys and are 1000mg so they need to be quartered for a pigeon. You may have to look to a vet supply or a pigeon supply to find these meds.

If you have no meds on hand but have Pepto Bismol, I'd start with it. I guarantee that it will not hurt the bird and if it has sourcrop for long, it will probably die. 

Canker would be my next concern but you should be able to see this by looking into the mouth.

Paratyphoid was mentioned but if the feces are black, it's either blood or something else. Check it for blood as Pidgey says. Paratyphoid is a fairly common problem and requires a 14 day treatment (I'd use Albon or Sulmet) and it is also fairly easily cured if the bird is not too far gone. The first symptom that I am aware of is green feces, not black. Advanced symptoms are swollen joints which result in lameness or a droopy wing and some claim it to show neurological symptoms such as head twisting and lack of balance, although I have never seen this with Paratyphoid.

Bill


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Uhh... Emtryl (Dimetridazole) is probably the most toxic anti-canker and they don't tolerate overdosing on that at all. 

Pidgey


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yes, Emtryl*



Pidgey said:


> Uhh... Emtryl (Dimetridazole) is probably the most toxic anti-canker and they don't tolerate overdosing on that at all.
> 
> Pidgey


I've treated every pigeon that I ever had with canker with it and it is very effective. I've seen other posts that talked against it as well but I've never in my life lost a pigeon to canker and have cured every single one that ever had it with Emtryl. Have you ever tried it? I've never treated more than 3 days with it and they were cured.

I treated a 10 year old hen with it about 2 weeks ago for what was either an eye cold or canker and she is now fine and laid eggs a couple days ago. I had nothing for an eye cold, took a chance and she's fine. She had a total of 750mg over a 3 day period. 

Bill


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Dimetridazole is dosed in pigeons at between 20 and 50 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of bird per day. I'm not sure what breed of pigeon Janet's referring to, but we might be in the 125 to 150 gram class so you'd be looking at something like 20 * 0.15 = 3.0 milligrams for the chick of that stuff for the low dose and 7.5 for the highest, as an example.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, yes, that's the one that I use when I flock treat and it's a powder for the waterer. There are cases of them getting too much of it and it's a bit on the toxic side. I'm just very careful with it. There's documentation to go with that.

Pidgey


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

You said something about droopy wings. Yes- we have noticed that today. God- I hope she'll make it to the vet tomorrw. Watch - my luck, the avian Dr won't be in. Is the heat lamp good for tonight? She's not shutting her mouth all the way. I didn't see anything on the outside. I also wasn't able to see on the inside real well either. I told my hubby not to feed her in the morning. I think someone said not to. I figured I would try to get her checked out first. Unfortunately, I have no pepto on hand. Will anything else help for tonite. I'm afraid of giving her something that might make her worse.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I've never treated the whole flock for canker*



Pidgey said:


> Oh, yes, that's the one that I use when I flock treat and it's a powder for the waterer. There are cases of them getting too much of it and it's a bit on the toxic side. I'm just very careful with it. There's documentation to go with that.
> 
> Pidgey


That's why I like the pills. They are super easy to use. Yes, if I had a small bird, a baby, I'd give it less but it's safe to say that some of my birds have had more than I would like as I don't weigh or measure the tablets. I quarter them and some are alittle big and some alittle small. The best I can do by cutting them by hand. This has never created a problem of any kind. It's a very fast cure.

I have seen others, as I said, to knock this med but it's all I've ever used for canker and also as I said, I have literally never lost a pigeon to canker.

I'd never treat the whole flock for canker as I've never had the need to. It is a very rare occurance for me to see it. When I was a kid, I had more trouble as I did not take as good of care of my pigeons as I should have and was not as attentive to keeping waterers clean, etc. An old pigeon breeder told me about Emtryl tablets and I've had them ever since.

The bird that I have that had the eye cold or canker, whichever she had, was the first I have treated with Emtryl in probably 20 years and have never had any reason to treat for canker otherwise. The tablets are over 20 years old but she is cured.

I would be much more hesitant to put this into the water as if a bird drank more than it should (for whatever reason) it could overdose itself. The tablets are a sure way to go and I'd still use nothing else.

I think the fear of this med is overrated but I would not put it into the water for all to drink. Have you ever had an entire flock of pigeons with canker? I haven't and I don't know anyone else who has either. The tablets for individual treatment have been completely safe in my experience.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Not usually both wings*



Janet said:


> You said something about droopy wings. Yes- we have noticed that today. God- I hope she'll make it to the vet tomorrw. Watch - my luck, the avian Dr won't be in. Is the heat lamp good for tonight? She's not shutting her mouth all the way. I didn't see anything on the outside. I also wasn't able to see on the inside real well either. I told my hubby not to feed her in the morning. I think someone said not to. I figured I would try to get her checked out first. Unfortunately, I have no pepto on hand. Will anything else help for tonite. I'm afraid of giving her something that might make her worse.


Paratyphoid rarely causes both wings to droop although it could. I suspect that just feeling terrible is the cause. Similar to when we feel horrible, we slump and look generally crappy.

Do your best to see inside the mouth, this is important. Use a flashlight if you have to. They don't want you to hold their mouth open but it is important to diagnose the problem.

I can't think of anything else you could do at a late hour. This bird could need meds soon and it needs to be addressed as soon as possible. If you are willing to and can, the vet should have something for you.

Maybe Pidgey or someone else here has some other ideas.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*One other thought*



Janet said:


> You said something about droopy wings. Yes- we have noticed that today. God- I hope she'll make it to the vet tomorrw. Watch - my luck, the avian Dr won't be in. Is the heat lamp good for tonight? She's not shutting her mouth all the way. I didn't see anything on the outside. I also wasn't able to see on the inside real well either. I told my hubby not to feed her in the morning. I think someone said not to. I figured I would try to get her checked out first. Unfortunately, I have no pepto on hand. Will anything else help for tonite. I'm afraid of giving her something that might make her worse.


If you find an obstruction in the birds throat, such as canker, you can remove some of this very carefully to clear the airway. The open mouth makes me wonder if it isn't canker. You have to be very careful as this is a delicate area and you don't want to puncure anything. A toothpick will work but break the end so it's not too sharp. This would be only if you find an obstruction and if it doesn't look like it could be picked off, it may be better to leave it alone as it could be something else.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Janet,
Did you order the medications that were on the list I sent you several weeks back? If so, you should have the canker medication.
I would disagree about removing canker.
If the bird wants to eat in the morning I think you should let her. The vet will want to see a fecal sample and if she hasn't eaten there won't be any fecal to look at.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Janet said:


> * *God- I hope she'll make it to the vet tomorrw. *
> 
> *** I told my hubby not to feed her in the morning. I think someone said not to. *


* Pigeons, even babies, are pretty resilient.  
We'll think good thoughts.  

** *IF* sour crop is suspected, you don't want to add more food/liquid on top of what's already there & isn't moving.

Please do keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Charis- I'm going to be 100% honest; I didn't. I still have the list. I showed it to the vet and he said they carry all of them. My thing is- I would be scared to death to give the birds anything. I'm afraid I might give them the wrong meds at the wrong time. What if I gave them Baytril when they should have been taking something else and Baytril makes the problem worse. I'm soo not educated enough to know all this. Frankly, I don't know if something like that would even be a possibility, as I don't know what Baytril is or what it does. I'm trying to learn all this but my goodness, theres soo much to learn and take in. I have a rather measley memory and seem to forget quicker than I can remember. I'll get on it. But soo help me if I screw up somewhere down the line. I'll never be able to live w/ myself. We change the birds drinking water probably 15 times a day. Its ridiculous. Right now we have a large bowl but they end up stepping in it and pooping in it. I know that isn't good. We've been trying to figure out how to do the water dish so we don't have this problem. We bought a water container thats used for dogs. It holds one of those big jugs on the top. That didn't work either. We really try to keep the water poopy free. I hope that isn't whats causing her to be sick. Can anyone post a link of a pic of a good water holder/dish? Still- is the heat lamp a good idea for tonite?


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

I've got to get to bed. I checked on her one last time. She pooped but this time it was real watery. It had 1 little green strand/string looking. In the center of all the water it was yellow looking.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes, I would.
If you buy the list, we will help you with what is what. If you look at Foy's products on-line...there are several kinds of water containers. Honestly though, I change the water 4-5 times a day. If you have a large bowl, they do tend to poop in it, bathe in it, perch on the edge of it , etc. It's really bad for them to drink poopy water. That's one of the ways they get sick.
It's important to really look at the coop and try to see it through the pigeon's eye. If you put one large bowl of water, big enough for a bath...tha's what they will all do...they will take a bath. You might try several smaller bowls that a pigeon body can't fit in to and save the bigger one for bath time and remove right after.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Janet said:


> I've got to get to bed. I checked on her one last time.
> 
> She pooped but this time it was real watery. It had 1 little green strand/string looking. *In the center of all the water it was yellow looking*.


Combine that with the other symptoms & I would definitely add canker to the list of suspected problems.
It's possible the parents have active canker. I would check the inside of the mouths of Mom, Dad & the sibling, if you haven't already done so.

Cindy


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*If it has canker or sourcrop, it needs help soon*



Janet said:


> Charis- I'm going to be 100% honest; I didn't. I still have the list. I showed it to the vet and he said they carry all of them. My thing is- I would be scared to death to give the birds anything. I'm afraid I might give them the wrong meds at the wrong time. What if I gave them Baytril when they should have been taking something else and Baytril makes the problem worse. I'm soo not educated enough to know all this. Frankly, I don't know if something like that would even be a possibility, as I don't know what Baytril is or what it does. I'm trying to learn all this but my goodness, theres soo much to learn and take in. I have a rather measley memory and seem to forget quicker than I can remember. I'll get on it. But soo help me if I screw up somewhere down the line. I'll never be able to live w/ myself. We change the birds drinking water probably 15 times a day. Its ridiculous. Right now we have a large bowl but they end up stepping in it and pooping in it. I know that isn't good. We've been trying to figure out how to do the water dish so we don't have this problem. We bought a water container thats used for dogs. It holds one of those big jugs on the top. That didn't work either. We really try to keep the water poopy free. I hope that isn't whats causing her to be sick. Can anyone post a link of a pic of a good water holder/dish? Still- is the heat lamp a good idea for tonite?


Either one of these can be fatal and need to be cured before any other treatment, in my honest opinion.

I have removed loose pieces of canker that obstructed the airway. If it can't breathe, it will die. I said that this is a rather delicate procedure and must be performed with the utmost caution.

These two problems are among the easiest cures in pigeons and doves. I have given my suggestions as I know that they are effective and I have never lost a pigeon or dove to either of these conditions. If anyone else has, shame on you as this is simple.

Bill


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

We went to the vet this morning. She is sick w/ trich. They gave her a shot of invect something. Also a tablet of metro something we needed to crush and give to her orally. They took a stool sample which came back inconclusive at the time. It was yellow foam looking today. Her breath was smelling horrible this morning. They ended up doing a swab of her mouth. She had white stuff along the side of her beak. Poor thing. She's secluded right now and have a heat lamp on in case she wants to get under it. They said she's got to gain weight and to weigh her 2x day. Dr. Brown said she doesn't think she'll die of the trich. If anything, it would be from the secondary stuff; such as not eating. We can't give her seed for a few days either so were hand-feeding w/ Kaytee. I hope she starts to want to eat again. She's so little! Wish her luck as she needs it.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Metronidizol?*



Janet said:


> We went to the vet this morning. She is sick w/ trich. They gave her a shot of invect something. Also a tablet of metro something we needed to crush and give to her orally. They took a stool sample which came back inconclusive at the time. It was yellow foam looking today. Her breath was smelling horrible this morning. They ended up doing a swab of her mouth. She had white stuff along the side of her beak. Poor thing. She's secluded right now and have a heat lamp on in case she wants to get under it. They said she's got to gain weight and to weigh her 2x day. Dr. Brown said she doesn't think she'll die of the trich. If anything, it would be from the secondary stuff; such as not eating. We can't give her seed for a few days either so were hand-feeding w/ Kaytee. I hope she starts to want to eat again. She's so little! Wish her luck as she needs it.


Sounds like they are treating for canker and maybe for something else. I would have treated the canker first and worried about the rest later as you can cure it in a couple days but I'm not the doctor. It seems that they are on the right track.

Bill


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

I thought canker and trichominosis was the same thing. Am I wrong? the other invecto something was b/c she kept picking at her feathers/skin and it was flaking. I don't really know why she gave that. She said what it helps to do but I can't remember. Let me know if I'm wrong about canker and trich being the same thing? I have much to learn.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Janet, sure hope this little one gets well.

As to the waterer, you can't beat the one gallon containers that you get water in. They can be used for a couple of weeks, discarded and start all over with new ones. The water containers we use usually have a "natural" circle about mid-way and we simply cut that out, fill to the hole area, and set it in the aviary. They don't poop in them and they're easily rinsed out every day. You certainly don't need to change their drinking water 15 times a day.

On the days ours get a bath, we change that water 2-3 times a day because they either soil it or splash it out of the container.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I think you are right*



Janet said:


> I thought canker and trichominosis was the same thing. Am I wrong? the other invecto something was b/c she kept picking at her feathers/skin and it was flaking. I don't really know why she gave that. She said what it helps to do but I can't remember. Let me know if I'm wrong about canker and trich being the same thing? I have much to learn.


But I can't remember for sure. Funny, I should know that stuff but one name is good enough for me. Someone here is sure to know.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Janet said:


> I thought canker and trichominosis was the same thing. Am I wrong? the other invecto something was b/c she kept picking at her feathers/skin and it was flaking. I don't really know why she gave that. She said what it helps to do but I can't remember. Let me know if I'm wrong about canker and trich being the same thing? I have much to learn.


You are not wrong...canker and trichominosis are the same thing. The pill you are putting in the water is Metronidazol. It sounds like the vet is also treated for worms with Ivomec injectable.
Did you talk to the vet about treating all your birds?


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

I didn't. However, she gave me an xtra pill. She just said to keep an eye on them. However, I will probably get on the ball and buy stuff from Foys. Giving them that when their not sick will be safe right?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Janet said:


> I didn't. However, she gave me an xtra pill. She just said to keep an eye on them. However, I will probably get on the ball and buy stuff from Foys. Giving them that when their not sick will be safe right?


I hope the young one gets better, I would make a kit of meds to have on hand for when you may need them, and write things down in a journal or tablet so you can go to it to remember what they are used for. the more you learn about the meds the more comfortable you will be to take charge when one gets sick.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Thats a good idea. You would think I could of thought of that-but I didn't. Anyways, I like that idea. Hey- I gave my bird that metro pill on Friday. [B*]How long does it usually take till their all better*[/B*]?*She's looking better around the eyes and peeps alot when we come into the bedroom and hold her. However, she pooped on me and it still doesn't look right. It's little green string loking w/ yellow runny foam. *Should I contact the vet on Monday if its not normal?*


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Janet said:


> I didn't. However, she gave me an xtra pill. She just said to keep an eye on them. However, I will probably get on the ball and buy stuff from Foys. Giving them that when their not sick will be safe right?


Yes, it would be safe.
I think you should see improvement, in the bird you took to the ,soon. How long are you supposed to give her the medication?
Your others may not look sick but they still could be. Birds pretend they are ok, when sick, for as long as they can. It's a natural defense against predators. In the wild, a bird that is noticeably sick, would be a target. when you notice your bird is sick...it's really sick.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Faking being well? Never heard of it*



Janet said:


> My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.


If you are talking about the Metronidizol, it should be given for two or three days consecutive to cure canker and it will cure it.

As to treating your whole flock for it, I would not and never have. I have never in over 50 years of observing pigeons and nearly 50 years of raising them, seen an entire flock with canker. 

I have also never seen a bird try to act as if they were not ill. They may be ornery and try to keep others away but there should be signs of illness if you observe carefully. Some are better at spotting this than others and it seems that women are often more in tune with an animal being out of sorts than men are. My wife has always been better at noticing if a cow, cat, dog, fish or bird was not feeling up to par than I have been, even though I have far more experience in raising them than she has. It seems that their mothering and nurturing instincts are better. This is why milkmaids were chosen over men as they knew when a calf or cow was ill.

Keep an eye on the feces, if they stay green, I would follow this treatment with something for Paratyphoid and for this I would treat the entire flock with a Sulpha drug such as Albon or Sulmet. This will treat and insure against Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis. These problems tend to travel through the whole flock as do worms.

The bird has to get over canker first and it may also have worms as it apparently was treated for them as well. These are two strong meds in a short period and I prefer to wait awhile. Worms and Paratyphoid are rarely fatal (although they can be) unless in a very advanced stage.

I always follow any medications with vitamins for a few days or a week. I do not like to give any more meds for at least a month.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> If you are talking about the Metronidizol, it should be given for two or three days consecutive to cure canker and it will cure it.
> 
> As to treating your whole flock for it, I would not and never have. I have never in over 50 years of observing pigeons and nearly 50 years of raising them, seen an entire flock with canker.
> 
> ...


Bill...I take issue with you. I've been observing for longer.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I don't get it*



Charis said:


> Bill...I take issue with you. I've been observing for longer.


Observing what? I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Bill


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi Janet,
I think since you've already lost 1 bird to canker and have another that is displaying symptoms and being treated for it *by a vet* - which means it's a near certain diagnosis - you had better treat the whole flock. Most of them carry trich and are resistant under normal circumstances, but any stress brought on by other factors which puts them out of balance can reduce their resistance. There is certainly no harm in flock treating for canker, and given your present circumstances I would not hesitate. I would not risk the health and even the lives of my other birds on the chance that they _might_ not get sick. It does not have to be the case that your entire flock is symptomatic before it becomes wise to address the issue.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Could you describe your setup, Janet, e.g., How many pigeons occupy what amount of space? 

Cindy


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Our loft is:
8 feet high
8 feet wide
14 feet long

We have 19 adult and 4 babies

I would put up a photo but I think you need a digital camera. I haven't invested in one of them as I haven't really needed to yet.

Do we need a larger loft? We actually have a slider where we can shut 65% of the loft off and keep some birds on one side and others on the other side. We usually only do that when the weather is cold. One side is more open to outside air than the other. Although the other side isn't completely shut out from fresh air. Also, we didn't have that many birds back then either. We had made it bigger since the birds seem to have multiplied overnite.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You are going to love those wooden eggs!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Janet said:


> Our loft is:
> 8 feet high
> 8 feet wide
> 14 feet long
> ...


Janet, that's plenty of room for the number of birds you have. As long as there are enough perches (there should be 1 1/2 per bird) you could put around 40 birds in there comfortably. The calculations say 56 birds, but I always try to stay on the low side. Better for the birds, for you AND your pocketbook.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Janet said:


> My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.


Janet, could you explain a bit more on that dosage? 125 m? That is an exceptionally high dosage for metronidazole. After you crushed the pill did you mix it with anything - like water? - and if so, how much water? We usually crush one pill, mix with 10 cc (or ml) of water and then dose according to the weight. I know with Spartrix (another canker med) that you give one pill so maybe your vet is going that route with the metronidazole although we've never used it that way. We dose for seven days straight.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Okay- I have the pill bottle in front of me. The vet only had 250 mg and 500 mg tablets there. (Metronidazole) Because of the weight of the bird, she gave me a 250 mg tablet and broke it in half. I was told to take the 1/2 pill and crush it as fine as I could. Then mix it w/ alittle water. Pull it up in a syringe and give orally. Now how much water was used I don't know. I had taken the bird to the vet. I was there for 1 3/4 hours. My husband was getting ready to come home from work and I still had to get back to work. When I was finished at the vet, I dropped her off at home and put her in a spare room inside our house. We had turned it into a pigeon room. We had previously raised Bumpsy and Bruisey in there when they were 5 days old. Bumpsy passed away and Bruisey grew up strong enough to take care of himself inside the loft. So outside in the loft he went. We kept the room that way. I stuck her in there by herself w/ a heat lamp and water. When my husband got home about 10 min after I left. He gave the meds to her. So I haven't a clue on how much water was used.


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

Also- I was told to only give that one dose. She said to hold on to the other 1/2 in case another bird got sick. She said it was strong and would work rather quick and that I probably wouldn't need to give her another dose.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well... you see it done that way with Spartrix (Carnidazole, a cousin to Metronidazole) a lot but with Metronidazole we usually dose them out for a few days, up to ten. The older formulary put it at 10 to 30 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of pigeon, orally, twice daily. It became normal to see almost twice that and then a 200 to 250 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, once daily.

Don't know how big this bird is--have you weighed him?

Pidgey


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## Janet (Jan 17, 2008)

UUH! Pidgy- I didn't understand one thing you wrote. Little new at all this and this was the first time I gave my bird medicine. Maybe you can explain it again so that I understand. Sorry!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Janet said:


> UUH! Pidgy- I didn't understand one thing you wrote. Little new at all this and this was the first time I gave my bird medicine. Maybe you can explain it again so that I understand. Sorry!


Hi Janet,

Spartrix is usually given for 3 days .. 5 days max. I don't know of a canker drug that is only given once if you are trying to cure an already existing case of canker. Metronidazole is usually given for 7-10 days for canker. By giving only one dose, you are likely not accomplishing anything aside from making the canker more resistant to the drug, HOWEVER, the dose you gave was a big one and could have done the job, but I think you should just recheck with your vet on this and let us know what s/he says.

Terry


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