# grain are pellets



## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Has anyone here ever race there birds on Purina Gold pellets, and compared it to grain?


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Yes. I did it for 18 months. Switched back to grain for a number of reasons. Mostly due to my desire to customize the grain/feed regiment.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I have used the Green and Gold for a couple of years now.I am fine with it, I have won a few races and not done well in many.But I dont think its because of the feed.If I had my way I would mix my own, but I like it for myself.Once I retire and have plenty of time and money.....Ha Ha.... I will use something else. Jeff


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Thank You Jeff that's what I wonted to know, I was using grain and I hopper feed and the birds would pick and choose and a lot of feed would go to waste, I been using the pellets a couple weeks now and there is no waste I love the fact they have to eat whats there and no picking and choosing. I am using the Green for the breeders and the Gold for the racers.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Thats one good thing, they are all getting the same amount of nutrients.I pretty much go by the instructions on the bag.When I separate the birds and stop racing I feed 100% Gold, when racing and breeding I feed 50% Green and 50% Gold.You will notice if you feed by weight it takes more of the pellets they are lighter then grain.I had to adjust a little when I started.Mine also seem to want to eat more pellets.So keep A eye on them and dont over feed.
Jeff


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I was on grain last old bird and didn't have my best year . I was trying the green and gold for my young birds until the supply stores had trouble getting it so I switch back to grain. I felt my YBs were looking very nice on the pellets before I switched back. I am trying them again for breeding and I will race this year's old birds on them. I still have plans to treat the bird with Peanuts ,safflower, hemp and rape before long races .


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I have used them, I am not home when the birds trap from loft flying most mornings, fast trappers pick what they want from the grain mix and the slow trappers get what is left. With the pellets I like that they all get the same. Results in races were ok but like has already been said most likely other factors. The one problem I did have was a couple pairs of babies crops would not empty switched back to grain and they where fine.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks to all here for the info, I will try the pellets for a year and see how things turn out.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Flapdoodle said:


> The one problem I did have was a couple pairs of babies crops would not empty switched back to grain and they where fine.


Same here. That's one of the big reasons I stopped. Once a year I would have a clutch that would need to be fed grain. They apparently don't have the ability to digest the binding agent used in the pellet and it causes their crops fill. They can't pass it through so it collects and eventually would kill them.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Kastle Loft said:


> Same here. That's one of the big reasons I stopped. Once a year I would have a clutch that would need to be fed grain. They apparently don't have the ability to digest the binding agent used in the pellet and it causes their crops fill. They can't pass it through so it collects and eventually would kill them.


I tried to use the pellets last spring during breeding season, My feed dealer is sporadic about having what I want when I need it so I was not able to use it for any real length of time. I did notice however that the youngsters in the nest did seem to have a little tougher time with the pellets than the grain. Their crops were staying full but I dont think they were getting enough moisture to let it pass as Kastle noted. Wasnt a problem once they weaned and could get to the drinking founts. I have since switched back to using the grain.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I think this was posted before but it's worth another look for anyone is interested. 

THE USE OF PELLETTED RATIONS IN PIGEONS

By Dr Colin Walker BSc, BVSc, MRCVS, MACVSc (Avian health) 

Around the world, knowledge regarding avian nutrition has undergone quantum leaps in the last two decades. We now have a very clear understanding of the optimal nutritional requirements of pigeons.

Taking a quick look at the level of various nutrients in grain and the average level of these grains used in the various feed blends, it doesn’t take very long to realize that no grain blend can provide a complete and balanced diet. This is why over time a whole range of supplements has been developed and used successfully because they do complement the deficiencies of a diet based solely on dry grain. Further complicating the picture is that pigeons preferentially select certain grains within a mix. This means that even if a grain-blend did provide a balanced diet, it is likely that the balanced diet would be distorted by individual birds selecting the grains they liked. It has been shown, contrary to the opinion of many fanciers, that pigeons do not have nutritional wisdom. They do not necessarily know what is best for them but rather they are like children. They just eat the grain that tastes nice, and these for most pigeons are the grains that are higher in fat.

Throughout the avian world, one of the ways of combating these problems is through the provision of pelletted rations. Pelletted rations can be formulated to contain all the nutrients in just the right proportions and every pellet is the same. In this way, pelletted rations combat the two problems associated with a dry-grain diet, namely that grain diets alone intrinsically fail to provide an optimal diet and the preferential selection of certain grains. In a well formulated pelletted ration the nutritional intake and the provision of a complete and balanced diet is guaranteed.

Despite these advantages the use of pelletted diets has only slowly been embraced by pigeon fanciers. In all poultry species such as chickens and ducks, and in particular in the last few years in pet and companion birds such as parrots, the use of pelletted rations has steadily increased. Such rations are almost invariably recommended by avian vets around the world. The progressive veterinary-based pigeon companies around the world have in line with advances in knowledge started to manufacture and produce pellets.

I think part of the reason pigeon fanciers have been slow to use pellets is a lack of understanding of the product. Some companies produce several types of pellet, designed to be fed at different stages of the pigeon’s life. This is because the nutritional requirements at different life stages vary. In a recent article, a prominent fancier was quoted as saying that when using pellets in the stock loft the raised youngsters were beautiful but when the same birds were raced on the same pellets they seemed to have no power. This is a totally anticipated outcome. To say that one pellet formulation can supply the requirements of a pigeon throughout its whole life is like saying that the dietary requirements of a pregnant woman, a footballer and a growing child are all the same. In the chicken industry, different pelletted blends are produced for laying hens, young chicks, growing chicks, etc. In pigeons, we don’t need such a variety and the provision of too many different pellet blends would make the use of pellets unnecessarily complex. Most companies produce two blends for pigeons, one designed for the maintenance of adult birds and a second designed to be added as a proportion of the diet to a grain blend for actively racing pigeons.

Maintenance Pellets
To formulate maintenance pellets, it is simply a matter of going to the literature on the nutritional requirements of pigeons, which these days is very comprehensive and accurate. Extensive work over many years has been conducted so that not only is the ideal level in the diet of each vitamin, mineral and amino acid (amino acids combine to make proteins) known but also the ideal levels relative to each other. These nutrients can then be blended together in the form of a pellet to provide a complete and balanced diet. Many fanciers will say, “I have kept pigeons for many years. I have always fed them grain. They seem fine. Why bother?” What I feel is that many such fanciers accept certain problems that have a nutritional base as a normal part of pigeon management. Examples here include:

1. Hens past 7 years of age no longer breeding winners – associated with decreased yolk and albumen quality, resulting in poor embryo development and the chick getting off to a poorer start. 
2. Cocks and hens developing arthritic changes and gout by 8 - 9 years of age – associated with high levels of protein, too low calcium and incorrect levels of vitamin A and D3 in the diet. 
3. Obesity in non-breeding hens – associated with fat contents of over 6% in the diet. 
4. Infertility in middle-aged cocks – associated with an incorrect vitamin A and vitamin E ratio in the diet. These are both fat-soluble vitamins and are absorbed into the body via the same pathways. Vitamin E is needed for normal sperm function (it affects lipid metabolism in the sperm head). Giving too much vitamin A in the diet means there are no pathways available to absorb vitamin E, leading to vitamin E deficiency even if there is plenty in the diet. 
5. Recurrent canker in nestlings, despite medical management – low protein levels in the diet and poor balance of nutrients predisposes to disease generally. 

The list goes on and on. Recently, a fancy-pigeon owner rang me. He kept a breed of fancy pigeon that was notorious for poor fertility. Traditional wisdom was that this breed was of poor fertility and that a likely cause was Salmonella. Each year, for the previous 5 years, the fancier had paired 30 pairs together, producing only 6 – 8 youngsters per round. He was becoming totally exasperated and ended up driving 100 miles to our clinic to investigate the cause. The birds appeared normal in the hand and were fed grain, grit and water. Six birds were anaesthetized and the gonads were examined with an endoscope through a keyhole incision in their left side. There were no visible abnormalities (such as cysts, adhesions, or tumours) in any of the birds’ gonads. Blood was drawn from each bird for a Chlamydia test (Chlamydia is the organism that causes eye-colds in young pigeons and can damage the gonads of older birds leading to irregular laying in hens and premature infertility in cocks). The best way to diagnose Salmonella (the organism that causes the disease Paratyphoid) is to culture the site of an infection. Endoscope-guided swabs were collected for testing, taken directly from the gonads. All test results for disease were negative. The birds were changed to a pelletted ration. The next year the first round from 30 pairs contained 57 youngsters. 

Fanciers asking if the pellets contain medication to control canker is common. On pelletted rations, they found they no longer needed to treat for canker. In Australia, it is illegal to add medication to pellets (except with a prescription). This effect is simply due to the pellets providing a complete diet and the resultant increased ability of the healthier bird to resist disease. 

In another instance, a fancier added turkey grower pellets to his grain blend during breeding. The high level of protein and calcium in this blend resulted in beautiful youngsters being produced. Because of this, he kept feeding the pellets as a proportion of the diet to his stock birds while they were not breeding. Several months later, some of these started to get sick. One was euthanized and autopsied. The persistently high protein, high calcium, high vitamin D3 levels in this diet for non-growing or breeding birds had damaged their kidneys and they were developing kidney failure. Correction of the diet resulted in all remaining birds recovering within 2 weeks. 

Fanciers often add iron to the diet or copper sulphate to the drinker (to combat canker). These are both heavy metals that are quickly absorbed into the system but only slowly excreted. With repeated low doses, these birds look fine but as the minerals accumulate in their bodies they have a variety of effects. The most common of these in the stock loft is reduced fertility. It can be hard for the fancier to relate the dead-in-shell youngsters, clear eggs and non-laying hens experienced during breeding to these treatments, which may have been given months earlier. 

With the nutritional knowledge available and the expertise used in making maintenance pellets, to me it makes no sense not to use them. Often they are also cheaper than grain. 

Racing Pellets
The other type of pellet made is what is termed a racing pellet. These are designed to be added to a grain blend. They are a more concentrated blend of vitamins, minerals and amino acids and designed to complement the deficiencies of the grain. The term racing pellet can be misleading because when added to a grain mix at between 10-20% they can be used as an alternative to maintenance pellets. They are however principally used in birds that are actively racing. 

Racing pellets are made for two main reasons. 1. A maintenance pellet cannot provide the fluctuating nutritional requirements of competing race birds. Fat and energy requirements for a race bird fluctuate depending on how much work it is having, the distance of the race for which it is being prepared, and the weather. Grain blends need to be modified to cater for this fluctuating need. The fat and energy content of the diet is usually increased with cold weather and increased work load through the provision of high fat (e.g. safflower, hemp, linseed) and high carbohydrate (e.g. maize, wheat) grains and lowered during warm weather and times of less work. The experienced and astute fancier can determine the exact level through watching his birds’ behaviour and monitoring weight changes through handling. If the birds appear a bit tired or light, the fat and energy content should be increased provided the protein level stays above 12% of the total diet. Total protein levels of less than 12% can lead to loss of muscle bulk. 2. Food is a principal reward for a pigeon on return from a race. As pellets are not as palatable as grain, providing only pellets on return may compromise the reward principle unless the bird is very hungry. Racing pellets allow the provision of a grain-based diet but still allow the fancier to provide a complete diet. 

To produce racing pellets, the level of each vitamin, mineral and amino acid can be calculated for the average grain blend. Where deficiencies or imbalances are identified, a pellet can be produced to correct these and create a balanced and complete diet when added to the grain mix at a particular proportion. Most racing pellets are designed to be added to a grain blend at around 10%. With the use of pellets (be they racing or maintenance pellets) there is no need to provide any other supplement – in fact, their use just distorts the correct diet. The only additional food items the birds need are grit and water. 

Disadvantages of Pellets
So what are the disadvantages:

1. Palatability – Pigeons that are not accustomed to pellets initially do not like them and will select grain every time. Usually racing pellets are accepted more readily than maintenance pellets. It takes most birds 2 – 3 days to become used to them. 
2. Watery droppings – Birds fed pellets initially drink more. This makes their droppings wet. Usually within 2 – 3 weeks water intake becomes normal and the droppings improve. Usually however birds on the maintenance pellets, but not racing pellets, have droppings that are not quite as tight as those fed grain. 
3. Wastage in the bag – Because the pellets rub against each other in the bag, some powder is produced. This leads to a small amount of wastage. 

These disadvantages have got to be offset against the enormous advantage of providing a complete nutritious diet. Advantages such as healthier more fertile longer-lived stock birds, increased disease resistance, and improved race performance. I would strongly encourage fanciers to consider the use of pelletted rations. 

>> Back to recent articles 
ed in feeding pellets.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Good read, thank you very much I will try the Green and Gold for a year and see how things turn out. Thanks again


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

All my birds have been on the green and gold for over a month and its been really cold here sometimes a week or more in the sub zero temps and I think my birds look great . Other guys around are using a lot of corn and some guys straight barley a few days a week to keep their birds from getting fat but after reading that article and keeping the Purina mix to below 6% fat which is easy with the green and gold, I would bet money my birds will fair better this winter and come into old birds in better condition than the old ways of feeding in the winter.


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

Steve Troyer flies in the Dallas TX area wins more than his share flying on 100% gold pellets


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Do you have Steve Troyer e/mail address?


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

pm sent with his email


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

I am a little too tired to read the whole post by Eric K. But I am sure it is quite interesting. My experience with pellets, now I have never tried Purina gold and green, is that the birds form tends to drain quicker than with grain. In other words in the shorter races the birds may do the same, maybe better even as the resources are consumed easier overnight, but in the longer races they deplete their resources faster, therefore running out of gas. 
Kurps


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

M Kurps said:


> I am a little too tired to read the whole post by Eric K. But I am sure it is quite interesting. My experience with pellets, now I have never tried Purina gold and green, is that the birds form tends to drain quicker than with grain. In other words in the shorter races the birds may do the same, maybe better even as the resources are consumed easier overnight, but in the longer races they deplete their resources faster, therefore running out of gas.
> Kurps


If you are talking about rate of digestion, I agree. The pellets digest faster. I like grain in their crops before heading to a race. I think it gives them a deeper fuel tank


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

I use Purina Green pellets for my breeders during breeding season. I have used grains 2 years ago. I definitely like and prefer the Purina Green pellets for my breeders. The babies are bigger when weening. Once the babies are weened i put them on a gracing racing mix. There is 3 down falls with the pellets, but I decided to stick with it. 1. Its more expensive than the racing mix. 2. The birds spill alot of it. 3. the birds droppings smell more lol. Just my two cents. For racing, personally I wouldnt use pellets. Grains are more flexible to me. You can control the feed so many different ways using grains. Pellets are pellets, the only way you can control the feed is how much you give them and how often.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

M Kurps said:


> I am a little too tired to read the whole post by Eric K. But I am sure it is quite interesting. My experience with pellets, now I have never tried Purina gold and green, is that the birds form tends to drain quicker than with grain. In other words in the shorter races the birds may do the same, maybe better even as the resources are consumed easier overnight, but in the longer races they deplete their resources faster, therefore running out of gas.
> Kurps


I'm not convinced that your opinions are based on scientific facts but if it works for you then fine. 

Fat is the real fuel for flying and most great fanciers think that the last 4 feeding gives the birds the fuel or fat build up to race home. What the birds eat on Thursday to Friday is in part what they use for a Saturday race. A pigeon will burn 3 grams of fat acids in one hour of flight, so you will need to build up the fuel to that level before the race and that can't be done in one day. I've heard that a pigeon can store up to 27 grams of fatty acids at a time , so if the bird flies for 6 hours it will use 18 grams of this fuel from its stores . You then have 9 grams of left over fuel. That's where the theory of depurative feeding comes in. If there is no fuel left in the bird( a long or hard head wind race)you don't need the depurative feed. 
Most young bird races are less than 300 miles so any feed that will provide the birds with 24 grams of fatty acids( the fuel for flight) should be good enough. The problem with the green and gold feed in my thinking is they aren't clear where the fat in the pellet comes from. Lets say the fatty acids are all from long chain fats. They are the hardest fatty acids to use as fuels, like sheep fat.
If the fatty acids are short chain , like flax or sunflower oils they you should be okay. Hemp, linseed , rape , canary seed, sunflower hearts and peanuts are all examples of feeds high in fats used to build up the pigeon before a race.
Without ever racing birds on the gold I don't know if the 7% crude Fat listed on the bag is sufficient for a longer race like 300 miles + but a person could simply spray the pellets with an oil ( like flax, sunflower, or canola oil) before the last few feeding to bring the fat content up. Most good fliers use oil on their seed mix anyway. It will be interesting to say the least this spring and I will share my resulted with you from my old bird racing on the pellets.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

M Kurps said:


> I am a little too tired to read the whole post by Eric K. But I am sure it is quite interesting. My experience with pellets, now I have never tried Purina gold and green, is that the birds form tends to drain quicker than with grain. In other words in the shorter races the birds may do the same, maybe better even as the resources are consumed easier overnight, but in the longer races they deplete their resources faster, therefore running out of gas.
> Kurps


I am talking about experience that I have had using pellets and grain. Scientific no I did not set out to disprove one or the other. If you have ever had a bird missing for a day or two and took not on the condition of the birds when they returned as I have you would see that the birds on a pellet diet were in rougher shape than a pigeon on a grain diet. I have noticed this time and time again. Pellets are perfect for breeding as some pigeons tend to favor certain grains, pellets make sure that their diet is balanced. I would imagine pellets are good for show birds also. For racing I feel grain is best. IMO.
Kurps


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

If a bird is lost for 48 hours and it can't find food it will have digested and burned any stored supply of energy before it gets home regardless of if the energy source came from a pellet or a piece of grain, unless that bird had extra body fat in the first place . Maybe you experience is with a pellet that's not made for a pigeon in the first place and grain fed pigeons can build up body fat easier than a pigeon fed with a balanced pellet.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> If a bird is lost for 48 hours and it can't find food it will have digested and burned any stored supply of energy before it gets home regardless of if the energy source came from a pellet or a piece of grain, unless that bird had extra body fat in the first place . Maybe you experience is with a pellet that's not made for a pigeon in the first place and grain fed pigeons can build up body fat easier than a pigeon fed with a balanced pellet.


First off Eric I am not here to argue with you and I did say in my opinion ( IMO ). Second do NOT tell me what type of pellets I was using. Third you proved my point in your last sentence " grain fed pigeons can build up body fat easier than a pigeon fed with a balanced pellet ".
Kurps


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

He didn't tell you what sort of pellet you are using. Thus the word "maybe".


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Well I have to say if a bird was missing a day are two like you stated, that bird would return in pour shape no matter if it was grain are pellets.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

This is not a perfect example of how a pigeon would convert feed to energy but its the best example I can find at the moment.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Eric, I've learned a lot by what you have posted, so thanks for doing so.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

No problem John , I'm just looking for some answers myself and I don't mind sharing information . 

I know there should be some math formula about types and quantities of feed and even though we are all feeding something different we can help each other to the end goal of better performances with our birds.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

This chart was created for migratory bird flight but some of this must apply to pigeon flights as well.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Table 1. Energy and water yield of the three main fuel types: stored glycogen, triglycerides in adipose tissue and protein in skeletal muscle or fat free mass. The calculations are based on the values given in lines 1, 2, 4 and 6 (for references see footnotes), from which the values given in the other lines follow.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

CONCLUSIONS AND PRESPECTIVES

Until now, limits to flight range were evaluated on the basis of energy and water (Carmi et al. 1992; Klaassen 1995, 1996). Because there is a certain amount of protein loss during endurance flight, limits to flight range imposed by energy can be subdivided into limits imposed by lipids and protein. Hence, I refined the original model to estimate flight range of migrating birds to account for these two main fuel types in Fig. 1. 

Because of their mode of locomotion, birds have high energy demands and must give priority to the most energy dense fuel - fat (Table 1). The consequence is that birds need to derive a particularly high proportion of their total energy from fat. Flying birds have a very high, perhaps the highest possible, contribution of energy derived from lipid oxidation, a level similar to that of resting birds adapted to long-term fasting, such as penguins (Cherel et al. 1988; Robin et al. 1988). Until now adaptations in the transport system of fatty acids to flight muscles, high initial fat stores and an increase in maximum aerobic capacity have been demonstrated at the biochemical and physiological level. However, all these adaptations entail costs which are at least partly responsible for an increase in basal metabolic rate (Piersma et al. 1995; Weber & Piersma 1996).

Because of these costs, it is expected that the optimum ratio of fat to protein stored before, and used during, migratory flight depends on the length of the non-stop flight (Table 2). In birds flying only short distances non-stop, it may not be worthwhile to build up mechanisms to maximise lipid use. A substantial contribution of protein, or even glycogen, might do. The longer the flight, the higher the relative amount of energy derived from fat in the total energy expenditure should be and, consequently, the higher the investment in adaptations to increase lipid oxidation. However, birds flying in conditions where water loss is excessive may alleviate water stress by increasing the relative contribution of energy derived from protein per total energy expenditure (Table 1).

Species covering very long non-stop flights probably push maximising lipid use to the limits and may in addition reduce the mass of organs which are not needed for flight (Table 2). Indeed, a reduction in mass of nutritional organs (stomach, intestine and liver) has been demonstrated (Piersma & Gill 1998; Piersma 1998). It remains to be shown how widespread this phenomenon is, under what ecological circumstances it occurs and what are the consequences during subsequent refuelling in the wild. A reduction of the nutritional organs before or during the fasting period may help birds to increase their flight range by reducing the mass to be transported and the maintenance costs (basal metabolic rate), which also contribute to maintain water balance (Klaassen & Biebach 1994). However, detailed energy accounting which would take into account the costs of a slower increase in body mass during the first day of stopover due to reduced digestive tract functioning (Klaassen & Biebach 1994; Piersma & Lindström 1997) is still to be addressed. Also, birds reducing their protein content before flight would probably not be able to counterbalance much dehydration (Table 2).

In order to further unravel the endurance performance of migrating birds, investigation of the delivery mechanisms of fatty acids to the flight muscle cells would seem promising. Furthermore, more information on the proportion of energy derived from lipid and protein as a proportion of the total energy expenditure during endurance flight is needed to test the hypothesis of a minimum ratio which is independent of energy expenditure (see above). Data are also required to elucidate whether all migrants incur the costs associated with increasing the relative contribution of energy derived from fat or whether under certain circumstances (e.g., short flight bouts) such costs are bypassed and other fuels have a more important share in energy expenditure.


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