# Black Spread & Tiger Grizzle Questions



## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

Questions are all about the same bird.

#1-Is this tiger grizzle?
#2-Is is dilute? or faded? etc? The color gets lighter in certain areas (you can see the parts of a darker bird next to him) I beleive the other bird is a tiger grizzle as well 
#3-Will I ever be able to get blue offspring out of black spread?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It looks like a pied t-pattern slate. Could be silver but a picture of the flights would help. Also a pictue of the tail.


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## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

I'll get a better picture. I have to use my phone, so its hard unless I have someone help me,lol.


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

it looks like brown .


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## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

I took some better pictures, but I have to wait until I go into town to upload them and then I will post them


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

It's not dilute because the iridescence is normal. Its not a tiger grizzle just pied, the same seems to go for the one in the background. The tail picture needs to show the outermost feather to see if there is a white strip going down it or not. No white strip = smokey (or slate however you prefer). Black birds have solid black tails minus the white strip so that's a way to check. T pattern blues can hve solid black wings but a blue tail, also homoygous dirty blues can pass off as bad blacks. If it was black you could have 50% non black (blue) offsprings if it's only heterygous. If it comes from two blacks there's a chance it's homoygous making it produce all black young. No way of telling which one, just don't breed it to another black if you don't want more. As for the color on the wing, makes me think it's not spread because spread will mask things like that often but could be wrong.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

#1- no not tiger grizzle, just pied
#2- its not dilute or faded. it may be smokey and or sooty with a bronze gene.
#3- you'll breed blues from it if its het spread but you wont if its **** spread like print tippler said.

het = 1 gene
**** = 2 gene

I don't know it its a black or t-pattern. if you can see a tail bar its not black.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Print Tippler said:


> It's not dilute because the iridescence is normal. Its not a tiger grizzle just pied, the same seems to go for the one in the background. The tail picture needs to show the outermost feather to see if there is a white strip going down it or not. No white strip = smokey (or slate however you prefer). Black birds have solid black tails minus the white strip so that's a way to check. T pattern blues can hve solid black wings but a blue tail, also homoygous dirty blues can pass off as bad blacks. If it was black you could have 50% non black (blue) offsprings if it's only heterygous. If it comes from two blacks there's a chance it's homoygous making it produce all black young. No way of telling which one, just don't breed it to another black if you don't want more. As for the color on the wing, makes me think it's not spread because spread will mask things like that often but could be wrong.


What does the iridescence have to do with anything?


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

nothing lol


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

You said it could be silver but if you look at the iridescence it is clearly not a dilute,that's all. Silvers have a more yellowish iridescence.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I haven't noticed that. I've seen some silvers that looked almost just like regular blues and some that looked almost just like browns. So it can vary.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I don't know.... Seems to be that way, makes sense also. If the bird was dilute of course pigmentation would be lost in the neck also. I see a totally different color in my silvers. Maybe I'll take pictures tomorrow haha. I only have two blue bars to compare with though. Have a little blue in the nest right now. It has a white rump where neither parent did. Guess that is a recessive trait.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Print Tippler said:


> I don't know.... Seems to be that way, makes sense also. If the bird was dilute of course pigmentation would be lost in the neck also. I see a totally different color in my silvers. Maybe I'll take pictures tomorrow haha. I only have two blue bars to compare with though. Have a little blue in the nest right now. It has a white rump where neither parent did. Guess that is a recessive trait.


I have made similar observations of my own dilutes. They tend to have more yellow / pink iridescence and not the normal green / plum. I have also seen dilute spread which had a much more normal sheen, as well as dilute dirty birds with super green sheen. I also find that my blue check dilutes are darker in the neck, which allows them to show much more (and deeper) sheen than does blue barred. 

As such I try not to use sheen as a way to distinguish between intense and dilute.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Interesting study's. I want to go look at my birds now. I have some dirty t pattern dilute blues. I know what your talking about on t patterns. T pattern kites have much greater amount of plum or purplish sheen than barred I think along with blue spread seems to express more plum than green.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I took another look again today. There is a difference but it is less noticeable than I thought. I can't find the word to describe the differences in color. They do however can or will have yellow in them. Mostly in the Brest and the "cut off line". Two grizzles show much more yellow though. Maybe I'll edit this and add pictures in.


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