# Pigeon with seizures



## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

*Pigeon With Seizures....please Help!*

I am in North Miami, FL. Help! I'm hoping you can help me here. I found a pigeon on my way home who appeared to be having seizures. He was convulsing violently, staggering around. I approached him and he didnt fly away, just stood there staring at me. He let me pick him up with very little protest. I took him home. On the way home (on foot, took about 20-25 mins to get home) he had around 6 seizures while holding him. He otherwise is alert and is able to walk. Possibly fly, not sure, but nothing looks out of place or broken or bleeding. Eyes, nose clear, no discharge. I have no idea other than trying to give him some water through a syringe, what to do!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Offhand, it could be PMV (Pigeon Paramyxovirus). Check this symptom list, which also gives info on how to look after them. Pigeons with this often do seem otherwise quite alert, rather than how sick pigeons can look (fluffed up and dopey).

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pigeon-paramyxovirus-aka-pmv-ppmv-pmv1-pigeon-12250.html

Failing that, it could have had a bash from hitting something and suffered head trauma, or even ingested a toxic substance, among other possibilities.

Check the link first, though, to see if some of the symptoms match even if only to exclude it.


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

Thank you, John. It very well COULD be, although I didn't see him in flight or observe some of the symptoms. He was staggering in a car park when I found him, floundering, trying to right himself as he appeared to be seizing. He is resting comfortably now on toweling in the loo (warmest room in the house due to air conditioning..this IS Florida after all). Hubby gave him some water with a syringe a bit ago. He fought a bit but took some. Right now I think I'll just let him be for the night and not try to feed him as of yet, and let him have a stress free night. Hubby just went to check on him and it doesn't appear that he's seizing anymore and he's resting comfortably. I'll keep you posted.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi x,



This could also be from the Pigeon eating ( uaually it would be large Kernal ) Corn, which has been soaked in various of the popular Avicides such as 'Avitrol', which is used commercially to poison them.

One would not give any Water for this, since Water accelerates the rate at which the Poison is absorbed.


Feel his Crop ( Crop is a pre-stomach, located on the front lower area of the Pigeon ) and see if you can 'feel' what would most likely be large Kernals of Corn.

If so, please no more Water for another day or so, or till all Crop contents have emptied or been thrown up as well as passing on through.


Often these Avitrol Poisoned Pigeons will throw up some of the poisoned Corn, so see if any of that is present.


Avitrol Pigeons will have an over Vivid look...they will tend to be panting, and, appear very excited, 'Wild Eyed', and can have varying degrees of convulsions.


Let us know on this?


Can you post some images of the Pigeon himself, from his own Eye level?


Also, images of his freshest poops...



Phil
L v


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

Well, Otto (yes, I named my patient) is much perkier this morning. He has stopped seizing and is readily taking water my husband offers to him in a syringe. He's not quite sure what to do with the dish of water we put down for him, so we've resorted to watering by hand. I'm pretty sure that this may have been a stress or trauma related issue, as he doesn't appear "ill" so to speak. The crop seems to be flat so I'm sure he's pretty hungry. I'm at work and have put hubby in charge of the care for Otto. He's in very capable hands as animals of all kinds, feral and tame, love him to death...he has a very gentle touch and deeply cares for their welfare. He's going to try feeding him some green peas soaked in water until warm and maybe some seed if he'll take it. At this point, he just seems to require sustenance and a bit more supportive care. Overnight he has become a bit more active and is walking around, although a little unsteady. I think he's weak from all the convulsing he was doing yesterday. Heck, my muscles would be fatigued too if I shook as much as he was doing! All in all he seems to be getting better. I'll stay in touch and if anyone has any more suggestions, please feel free to post them <3


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi x,


Images?

Of the Bird themself, and, of their freshest poops?


If this is a young Pigeon he may not know how to drink or eat by himself yet, and images would help us decide his age.


Using a Syringe to dribble or squirt or drip Water into a Bird's mouth is very dangerous, especially with unknown conditions in the Throat and Esophagus.


A Pigeon's Natural reflexes are not geared to having Water put in, in that way, and it can go into their Trachia and they aspirate it and die.


Have your husband softly guide the Pigeon's Beak into a Tea Cup of "tepid" Water, keeping his finger tip pads on the sides of the Pigeon's Beak as he does so, as the Pigeon drinks.

Ideally, this should probably be an electrolyte solution - and he can make some by dissolving a pinch of Baking Soda, a pinch of Salt and a pinch of Sugar into the Tea CUp of tepid Water...

Make sure he used tepid Water, not cool or cold Water.


Phil
L v


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)




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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi 'x',


Okay...well, this appears to be an Adult Pigeon who would have long since learned to eat and drink on his or her own.


Images of their freshest poops?


Any luck so far with them drinking the rehydration solution?



Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

Otto has done very well, and seems to be getting better every day. His poops are well formed, with a little puddle of yellowish/whitish liquid around it. Seems to be the norm for any pigeon droppings I've ever seen. He's eating bird seed (boy, he has a ravenous appetite!)...and he is shyly trying to drink water from a little shallow dish now and again. I had him walking around on my living room floor last night for a bit of exercise. He CAN flutter, but as far as actual flying, I think it's a bit early for that yet. My husband had him perched on his hand and lowered his hand a bit fast to see what he would do, and Otto fluttered out of his hand onto the side of the box where we're keeping him at night. It's going to take a bit of time to get him ready for actual flight, and a little more sustenance to build up his strength, but all in all, I would say this rehab will be a success


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

Update on Otto. I took him out of the box this morning and let him walk around a bit in the house. He's fluttering a bit and can get as far as the top of his box (it's about 2-2 1/2 ft tall), so he's getting there. I figured we'd take him outside on the weekend on the grass and see what he does and let him know there's still the big wide world out there just waiting for him to get better! He was following my husband and I walking around the house...so cute! He's eating well, drinking out of a bowl, and his poops are very nicely formed and not runny at all  He's the ideal patient. His steadiness is getting better...he just needs to work a little more on the fluttering and landing on his feet instead of being so awkard and flopping to his belly shortly after landing. Hubby said he may have some neurological damage either due to an injury (banged into something in flight) or as a result from having so many seizures. I don't know, we'll see how things go. It may be a slow recovery, but I think he'll get back to himself eventually.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi 'x', 


Why is it that when I ask for images of the freshest poops, 9 times out of 10, I get a two sentence description instead? Which omits 90 percent of what I could have seen if there were some images, while the person replying insists tacitly, that there could not be any thing TO see anyway, so why bother?


...sigh...


Do we even know if any actual fecal matter is being produced? Or if what is being taken for 'poop' is merely Bile and Urates?

Without images, "No", we do not...and this could matter very much.


Meanwhile...if you are seeing 'yellow' Urates puddling around the fecal matter, you have a sick Pigeon...and in most instances, you also have some or most of "why" that Pigeon was "down" in the first place, for you TO find them.

If Trichomoniasis was not their primary illness responsible for them being downed, then it is possibly a secondary illness which had occurred after they had been downed.


Whether this is primarily a Salmopnella, Ptsiticosis, Giardia, e-coli or any of the other illnesses which can or will occasion large amounts of spent Leucocytes to be disposed of with the Urine, changing the consistency and color of the Urine from a White paste, to a paint like or semi liquid 'yellow'...it is an indicator of a serious illness, which usually will not go away by itself.


Generally, "yellow" flat, paint-like or syrupy or semi-liquid Urates here in the Southern Mojave, are indicating Trichomoniasis infection, somewhere in the Bird's system, and, will clear up with a regimen Metronidazole.

Sometimes additional Medicines are needed to address additional illness or conditions which are also present.


If it were me, I would treat for Trichomoniasis...and I would also use an Antibiotic, such as Enroflaxyn, and, see how things appear to respond.

I would also carefully examine his Throat visually, with his Beak open, to see if any inflammitory debris is present, as well as to examine the color of his Mouth and Throat, and to note the condition of his Trachea...as well as palpating his entire Neck to see if I can feel any lumps or enlarged ( inflammitory conditions ) there.


Can you do this and report to us what you see/find?


I would also limit him - if these just mentioned areas are clear of any debris - to small whole Seeds and no medium or larger zise Seeds, since debris could be partially blocking the passage way from his Crop to his Stomach.


I would also make his drinking Water the 'ACV-Water', to the tune of say 3 Tablespoons to a Gallon.


Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## xxFemmexx (Aug 24, 2009)

Okay "Phil"...This will be my last post as I am a 50 year old woman who happens to be VERY intelligent. I will not be admonished or spoken to like a child. I will seek advice elsewhere since apparently I am not giving proper responses and I'm being talked to like I'm a complete idiot. I did not appreciate the tone in which I was spoken to when all I am trying to do is help a poor little bird. I'm by no means an EXPERT, which you obviously are, and come to this site hoping to get supportive assistance, and kind guidance instead of lectures. Thank you to the rest of you who tried to help.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

xxFemmexx said:


> Okay "Phil"...This will be my last post as I am a 50 year old woman who happens to be VERY intelligent. I will not be admonished or spoken to like a child. I will seek advice elsewhere since apparently I am not giving proper responses and I'm being talked to like I'm a complete idiot. I did not appreciate the tone in which I was spoken to when all I am trying to do is help a poor little bird. I'm by no means an EXPERT, which you obviously are, and come to this site hoping to get supportive assistance, and kind guidance instead of lectures. Thank you to the rest of you who tried to help.


Sorry this is the end result. No, this member is not an expert - just someone who insists that his view is the only view worth considering.

He will NOT be posting on this thread any further.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Time for a 'vacation' for one of our members.


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