# Grizzle? How does it work?



## keystonepaul (Sep 7, 2009)

I guess the bigger question is, What are the rules to mating in regards to color?

1. Specifically if I mate a grizzle with a typical BB pigeon or a Recessive red pigeon. How does grizzle affect each. 

Thanks, PaulC.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Bb To Grizzle*



keystonepaul said:


> I guess the bigger question is, What are the rules to mating in regards to color?
> 
> 1. Specifically if I mate a grizzle with a typical BB pigeon or a Recessive red pigeon. How does grizzle affect each.
> 
> Thanks, PaulC.


*Hi PAUL, The best mating for grizzle is blue bar to grizzle. Grizzle is an autosomal dominant which produces variable depigmentation in feather color., so never mate grizzle to grizzle as the young from this mating will result in white or near white birds.In grizzles, the clumped pigment areas, because of increased spacing, are lighter then spread areas.So for this reason, checker and T- pattern grizzles show less expression of grizzle,and are not nearly as attractive as bar.  GEORGE*


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## keystonepaul (Sep 7, 2009)

Thank you much George. Keystonepaul


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Hi George,

I've read that homozygous grizzle gave stork marked birds (on blue) and on ash-red the ****-grizzles are white to near white.

Regards,
Rudolph


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## NetRider (May 6, 2007)

What happens if you mate a spread grizzle to another spread grizzle, can you still get a nearly white bird ?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, you can still get nearly white birds. Spread doesn't effect the grizzle, it just effects the color showing on the grizzle (turning blues to black, etc.).

Homozygous grizzle in reds will give you nearly white or completely white birds with colored eyes. In blue, it can still give you an almost white bird, but you will get storks (colored flights and tail). Other things like piebald will help make a ****. blue grizzle totally white.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Grizzle may be affected by other factors*

Spread factor was thought to interrupt grizzle or alter it to mottle, according to Quinn. This seems to hold true at least sometimes. I have black grizzles that look like grizzles as well as black grizzles that look like mottles. It is possible that these are two different grizzles at work.

Quinn also reported that recessive red can also affect grizzle and change it to mottle. I have recessive reds that appear as both grizzled and mottled and again, it may be due to two different types of grizzle. It is also possible that some of these reds are spread, creating mottles.

Kite may mask grizzle altogether and these kite grizzles don't show it but can produce grizzles. This subject bears more study and I don't have the experience with it to speak on it. I have birds that would appear as kite grizzles but they are probably not kites but recessive red carriers showing bronze.

Mating grizzle to grizzle results in stork marked birds that can be very attractive, depending on your point of view. They will have dark wingtips and tails, usually streaked with white, which resembles so called undergrizzle. In ash red breeding, grizzle to grizzle can result in pure white birds and most orange eyed whites are of this type. Homozygous ash red grizzles tend to show very little color, being mostly white or all white. Het ash red grizzles can be just as colorful and grizzled as any other colors.

Grizzle can be a very useful gene but being dominant, it can take over a flock of birds, as ash red and other dominant genes can do. The most visible grizzles are only het grizzle and can still pass on the gene to half of their young. Homozygous grizzle to non grizzle, will result in 100% het grizzles that under most circumstances, will appear as grizzled pigeons.

Bill


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## Maui (Jan 31, 2010)

Could we see a good picture of a good colored grizzle?thanks


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I have a bunch of Grizzle's - don't know how "good" they are, I just like the color.










Dad was a Blue check and mom was White w/red spots.


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## newday (Dec 12, 2004)

*Young Grizzle Dragoon*

here is a blue grizzle Dragoon squab from Blue bar cock and blue grizzle hen.

Link


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

09 hen and the pic with the group is the same hen in front.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2010)

both are very nice looking birds you have there , thanks for sharing


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

So recessive red does not suppress grizzle effect?


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

"Mottled" black grizzle is generally Tiger grizzle, (GT, T superscripted), G is generally responsible for "pepperhead" black grizzle. I don't know whether a combination of tiger grizzle and grizzle would have a different phenotype.

Recessive red doesn't suppress grizzle (G), (from my limited experience). However recessive red/yellow "mottles"/"spangles" aren't grizzle (G) or tiger grizzle (GT), it seems to be a gene specifically linked and expressed on recessive red. I have bred recessive red offspring from blue bars which have subsequently moulted to mottle/spangle - the blues definately not grizzle.


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## newday (Dec 12, 2004)

*Grizzle*

Here is a blue grizzle Dragoon hen from a grizzle to blue bar mating.

Link


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