# Mucous



## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Our latest rescue has been with us for 13 days. He was treated with Panacur, Albon & Clavamox. 
The Panacur was ended last Friday, the Albon on Monday & the Clavamox on Tuesday.

He's a big bird & seemed to be doing fine. He had lice & 2 pigeon flies (that I know of), & was sprayed at the hospital 10 days ago. We were supposed to spray him again at home. Because I didn't want to put extra stress on him, I waited until today.

When Bob picked the pigeon up, I saw a mucous-like drip fall to the floor. It defintely came from his face, but I'm not sure if it was from his mouth or his nostrils. I sprayed him & before Bob put him back down, another drop of liquid fell. That drop didn't seem to have the mucous-like quality of the other one. I'm worried now.

That happened about 45 minutes ago & he is sitting peacefully in his cage. I keep checking & everything is dry.

Could this be serious? If so, I want to bring him back to the hospital as soon as possible. Thanks.

Phyll


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Thin snot, huh? Well, you're probably going to have to get a good magnifying glass and get really close to his nostrils, looking for a discharge. You might try touching them on each side with some tissue paper to see if it soaks up any moisture.

Pidgey


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Bob is out & the magnifying glass is in the car. I keep it there in case I need it for ferals with string.
I can't even blot his nostrils, because I wouldn't be able to manage that by myself, damnit!

So, what could cause mucous to drip?

Gonna go check on him again right now.

Phyll


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, an upper respiratory infection would. Those have ranged from canker to viruses (early stage) to Chlamydophila to some other bacterial infections. Actually, one of the symptoms for Chlamydophila (old names: Chlamydiosis, Ornithosis, Psittacosis) was a clear nasal discharge. That usually warranted a course of a Tetracycline like Doxycycline or even a combination of Doxycycline and Tylosan.

It can be kinda' hard to determine what the cause is in a case like that so you need to isolate and watch him pretty closely for quite awhile. It might pass pretty quick or not, no way to tell at this stage. If there was a way to tell, it'd involve some microscope tests and that sort of thing.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Phyll,

He could have a respiratory infection or maybe just a slight cold.

I'd start giving him a garlic cap down the throat, and slick it up with water first, and it will go down easy. After all those drugs his immunities might not be up to par.

Echinacea for three days, alcohol free kind, 1/4 a human dose. A good probiotic in the food wouldn't hurt, either, after the Panacur.

A drop of colloidal silver just in case of infection, and if it is mucous coming from the eye, a drop of silver in the eye would definitely be in order.

Has the bird had a change in temperature, different climate/room? A little sunlight outside might be good, and even a little humidity. Keep him warm and out of drafts also.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks, you guys.
I'm getting a nervous breakdown over here.
At the hospital, I was told that the pigeon didn't have anything that Jesse could catch ~ nothing airborne.
Just now, I measured the distance, & Jesse has been as close as 12 ft. from the other bird.
His eyes don't seem to have any discharge. 
The only change in climate, is when he goes outside. 
He is in a carrier in the sun for about 2 hours each day. Bob stays with him.
How would I provide humidity?
Should I buy a vaporizer?

Phyll


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

phyll said:


> How would I provide humidity?
> Should I buy a vaporizer?
> Phyll


You can either bring him down here so he can enjoy the sun and humidity or use a humidifyer ..... 

Make sure when he is outside, he doesn't get any drafts of air on him.

I think it's a little early to put him on more drugs.


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Oh Phyll. I don't want to call and knock you off line, so please call me if you want me to come over or whatever. You know I'm always here for you. I'm leaving the shop now so I won't be on line to read anything further. Also, I have some antibiotics (but none that were mentioned in earlier posts). Is he still eating well like before?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phyll,

The humidity can be provided from something as simple as running the hot water full out in the bath/shower until it gets steamy with the bird in the bathroom or boiling a pot of water and placing the pot and bird in close proximity .. obviously, you have to assure that the bird can't get into the hot water or close enough to the pot to get burned. A vaporizer is also a very handy thing to have around, but the humidity can be managed without that.

The drops could also be something as non-threatening as the holder squeezing the bird a bit too firmly which forced some liquid up from the crop and out the nose or mouth.

Let's hope there is no major problem going on here.

Terry


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Thank you, everyone.
I was so hoping it wasn't anything serious, but now I know this poor bird is sick.
Last night, his poop turned watery & today he is not eating or drinking. Well, I did see him take one drink a few hours ago & he had a problem with it. He tilted his body back & swallowed several times. I put his favorite seeds right in front of him & he hasn't eaten any of them.
Also, he seems to be swallowing a lot.
I don't know what the heck happened! For 12 days, he appeared to be fine & then everything changed yesterday. He is on a heating pad. 

I was able to get an appointment for him for tomorrow.

Bob & are so worried. I hope he didn't get sick because he was outside.
Please say a prayer everyone. Thanks.

Phyll


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Phyll and Bob,

You and your bird are in my thoughts and prayers, hoping all goes well at AG
when you bring him/her in for re-eval. This one had some pretty heavy meds
in a relatively short period of time, could just be something along the lines of
the system being thrown off kilter along w/a possible yeast infection....sure hoping it's nothing as drastic as Chlamydophila. Hopefully they would have caught that the first time around w/the tests they did, or had some indicators that there was a major infection brewing if this was the case. Hoping this is something relatively managable.

fp


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Thank you, fp, I appreciate it.

On Saturday, the pigeon was diagnosed with a bacterial infection in his blood.
We had to leave him at the hospital so he could be treated with injectable Baytril.
As of today (Monday), he still isn't eating on his own. I was told that he looks good & is preening himself.
We still have hope & are praying for him.

Have any of you guys ever had a pigeon with a bacterial infection in their blood?

Phyll


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know as it's been called that but I imagine it's happened quite a bit. For instance, even when a bird gets a Paratyphoid boil in a wing joint and you consider that the disease entered the body on a piece of grain through the beak... had to go through the blood. From the symptoms, though, it sounds like it could have been a Pasteurella species. Those can range from the bird being asymptomatic (no visible symptoms) through to bacteremia (bacteria floating around in the blood) and full-blown mortal illness. Respiratory infections are a common symptom with some Pasteurella cases.

Pidgey


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

*Bacterial infections*

http://www.santaclarapethospital.com/722698.html

Go about half the way done this page to read up on bacterial infections and how they can be acquired.

Julie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Phyll, sorry to hear your rescue has a blood infection, though glad to hear
that the bird is in good hands and doing well, i.e., responding to medication
therapy. It is good that the bird didn't have Chlamydophila as it's a reportable
disease and there are mandatory treatments for those in contact w/said
diagnosed bird. Some bacterial diseases, though not thought of to be
respiratory in nature, do frequently present w/respiratory symptoms, that's
why it's important not to jump the gun and get all the facts. Thank god
for AG, they are a godsend for the pigeons.

fp


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2007)

Phyll,
Mucous in the nares could be due to any number of respiratory diseases. One of the more common infections is an organism called Mycoplasma gallisepticum and if the symptom is mucous, the illness should be suspected. There are various places on the web where it is discussed and especially, that the use of Baytril seems to get mixed results. Use of Doxycycline seems to be more highly recommended (It's called Vibramycin in the injectable form.) Avian vets will inject with Vibramycin rather than Baytril for this. 
Mycoplasma tends to become a chronic infection so if one antibiotic is better than another, I would go with the Doxycycline. I've never been able to get good results using Baytril against this symptom so from personal experience, I don't use it for this.
I know you're stuck with what was given by what I assume is AG but if you have a chance, could you politely raise this issue with them?


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks, Pidgey. I want it to be tomorrow so I can call & get an update on him.

Julie, thank you for directing me to that very informative (& scary) site. After reading that some bacterial infections may be airborne, I am back to worrying about my Jesse. Of course, I would rather have the information, than not.

pigeonperson,
After the mucous or saliva incident on Thursday evening, nothing further was seen in that regard. At the hospital, they thought the liquid may just have been from stress. As Terry stated, maybe Bob held the pigeon too tightly. With that in mind, would you still recommend using the Doxycycline instead of the Baytril? Thanks.

Phyll


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2007)

Phyll,

Based on all your posts, I rethought all of this.

Stress by itself does not cause a mucous buildup. Stress causes illness that can produce mucous.

The added factor of holding the bird too tightly probably may have had something to do with mucous that came out of the nostrils but it was there and that means something, no matter how it came out. Since the mucous was there in such a quantity that it dripped out, you recognized a problem and acted on it as soon as you could and that's a good thing.

To digress for a second, anytime you bring a bird in, try to make a habit out of taking a Q-Tip and rolling (not rubbing) it gently over the beak from the top down beyond the nostrils. It's a sensitive area, so don't do it too hard. If more than just a little bit of mucous comes out, there could be a respiratory infection. Also, take a look at the inside of the top of the beak where there is a slit leading from the nostrils. There should be no liquid there at all.

Let me make a general statement about which antibiotic to use. Doxycycline by injection (Vibramycin) is the best one to use with any kind of respiratory infection. As a matter of fact, it is better than Baytril because it hits gram positive and some anaerobic bacteria whereas Baytril is mostly very good for gram negative including Salmonella. That is the reason why most avian vets will inject with Vibramycin and not with Baytril *but is this a true respiratory infection*?

You had no control over the choice of drug AG made. (I'm assuming you went to Animal General but can you tell me if that was the place?) The reason I'm asking is because AG's policy is not to use Baytril as they feel it is a big yeast producer so right now, I'm not really sure you took the bird to AG.

In any event, you can't tell a vet what to do and there may have been a reason for the use of Baytril that we don't know about. In rethinking this, you say that they found that there was infection in the blood and that may have been a deciding factor in what drug to use. The bird has a septicemia, a blood infection and in their experience, Baytril may be a better drug for that. It may be that the acuteness of a septicemia may have required the use of one drug over another in order to first deal with that. Once that is dealt with, they may very well switch over to Vibramycin. That's just a guess on my part but at this point, we don't really know why Baytril was used. 

A septicemia means the bird has a systemic infection, one where the blood took the infection to all the organs in the body and that's plenty serious. At this point, we don't know if this is truly a respiratory infection *or an infection that started someplace else and then traveled to the lungs. *The vet may be considering that and may have decided to use Baytril because of it. It also certainly means that this infection may not be Mycoplasma or even an originally respiratory infection, not that we could have known that in the first place. It was just another possibility. 

Phyll, you have no control over what drug the vet decided to use. Baytril is a very good drug and it may solve the problem especially if this is not a true respiratory infection. If it doesn't there is no reason not to switch to a different one. We aren't equipped to do blood work ups and vets are so the decision to use Baytril was based on that. You did what 99.99% of all people do not do and now it's up to the vet.

Is there any place where you can keep any bird you bring in far away from Jesse? Is there a separate room available?


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

pigeonperson, 
Yes, the pigeon is being treated at Animal General. 
Remember, I was not sure if the mucous-like drop came from his nostril or his mouth.
He has been at the hospital for four days & nothing was said about a respiratory infection. I hope to God it wasn't mucous; maybe it was saliva.

As of this evening (Wednesday), the pigeon was feeling better. He was described as being more animated. He even ate a few seeds on his own. The bloodwork will be repeated & if he continues to do well, he will be released from the hospital on Saturday. 

On this floor, there really isn't any place where rescues can be kept far from Jesse, & this floor is all we have to work with. There are rescued cats upstairs & one downstairs.
For a time, the pigeon stayed in a spare room. It's very close to where Jesse chooses to sleep, so I was nervous about "bad stuff" floating in the air.
The majority of the time, he stayed in the kitchen because that's the furthest distance from Jesse. That's where he will be when he comes home. I read that some incubation periods can be MONTHS, so now I'm sweating about that.

No one would believe how emotionally drained we are from this experience.
I keep looking at Jesse, wondering if I've harmed him by taking in this other pigeon. 

Please tell me what you think about the mucous-like drop maybe being saliva. Would that make a difference? Thanks.

Phyll


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2007)

Phyll,

All my posts to you assumed that the mucous came from the nostrils but at this point, I don't know what to tell you. Let's just hope that the blood work comes back normal and the bird will be fine.

Frankly, I'm very surprised that AG went back to using Baytril. At one time, they were adamantly opposed to its use because the birds developed so many yeast infections. I quietly disagreed with that policy because all antibiotics can and often cause yeast infections so why put the blame on Baytril? After all, any of these drugs absolutely destroy the good gut bacteria and totally upset the natural balance.

That's why so many vets prescribe probiotics along with antibiotic therapies in an attempt to replace what has been eliminated.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Our rescue is home from the hospital & seems to be doing well, thank God.
Testing showed that the bacteria is gone but he still has coccidia.
The treatment is .15 ML of Albon for 5 days & 1 ML of Nystatin for 5 days. He is also receiving Bene-Bac.

This pigeon was at the hospital for one week. When we picked him up, I was told that he still was not eating (except for a few seeds) or drinking on his own.
When we got home, we left him alone for a while because we were setting up a new dog crate we bought for him. 

Even though I knew he wasn't eating, I placed seed for him. As soon as he went into the crate, he began to eat! I gave him water & he immediately took a drink! I was SO happy!

Just before we left the hospital, he pooped on the examing table. It was all water with one short, straight, solid line in it. I was concerned but was told that it could be caused by stress.
It was very interesting because his poop actually improved on the way home.
Since he's been back, his poops have been perfect. 

Thank you, everyone, for your help & advice. It was much appreciated. Hopefully, this guy will be fine.

Phyll


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Phyll,

I'm glad the bird is doing so well and that the poops are solid, and that he is eating.

It sounds like he was stressed in the hospital and happy to be back in your care.

You can also use a good human grade probiotics, which is better then Bene-Bac, and some colloidal silver for coccidiosis. That is one problem my birds have actually had, and I have been able to get rid of it thru doses of kefir/probiotics and colloidal silver and garlic caps.

Thank you for all your care for this bird.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so glad he is doing better. Poor baby, he must feel ssafe with you. 
I move this past weekend and all my birds had the "stress" poops. As soon as I settled them their poopies were back to normal.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phyll, I'm really happy this little guy is doing better.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Phyll, glad to hear that your rescue is back at home w/you and feeling
safe and well loved and cared for. I'm sure pij must be feeling relieved 
to be back w/you both again.

fp


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Great news Phyll.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the good news update, Phyll! I'm glad this pijjie is doing so much better now.

Terry


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