# Young homer training?



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Raccoons and hawks have just about wiped out all of my original homing pigeons. I believe I have 6 pair of originals left. We went to a (somewhat) local pigeon swap last weekend and we bought some nice looking birds - old and new. I plan on using all the homers I have now as breeders for the moment so I can start with a fresh round of young homers once they start raising again. I know there is a bazillion different training methods out there, and they all work for someone. What I've been wondering is about how old are your youngsters when you begin tossing (training) them? How far do you usually start? Since I'm starting with new birds, I might as well try new things, right? I'm sure this exact same thing has been discussed several times already..but...maybe some things have changed since then..? Heh..

Oh and by the way, I currently do not race my birds but I want to so bad I can't stand it! We're going to start banding them when the '08 bands arrive, so hopefully I'll start next year if I feel confident that my training worked well enough :]


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

First off I would not recommend any tosses until the young birds are loft flying for a few weeks. Let them build some strength and explore their surroundings. Once they start routing (flying out of sight to explore the nearby terrain) you can start a toss. Most start with a mile toss in all directions then go to 5 miles etc. Just go slow and let the birds learn in short tosses then you can increase as you become more confident and the birds learn and mature.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

That's what I usually do :]
Thanks.

I've heard of some fanciers that start their youngsters out at 5-10 miles, not one mile as most do. And their schedule for tossing was almost everyday. Talk about packing in a lot of training before a race? Over tossing young or old pigeons can cause them stress, and I don't think you'd want stressed birds on race day. When I saw that I thought they were pretty crazy. If I had champion bloodlined birds, I don't think I'd risk taking them out 10 miles on their first tosses. Every homer has to build it's homing ability up gradually, I mean, you can't expect even a purebred homer to come back from a 100 miles with only 5 or 10 miles of land it's familiar with. Even champions can get lost. But hey, like I said before, everything works for some people.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

I think you'll find that the majority of your losses will come from the shorter tosses actually. Five miles for a first toss isn't at all out of the ordinary for healthy young birds (note the key word:healthy) If your birds have been routing properly and staying gone out of sight for 20 minutes to an hour at a time, there's nowhere within a 5 mile radius of your loft that the birds haven't seen before.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Good point. 
Our only problem with taking young birds is that there are so many trees around here...I'll have a few lazy birds fly up in a tree instead of following the others. Hawks like to come around and scare the young ones that are just starting to come out of the loft. That's another problem we have - hawks. Over the last few years, hawks have attacked so much while my rollers were out, that I think they're permenately scared. I'd let them out and all they'd do is sit in a tree or on top of the loft (but the majority would be in a tree). Well isn't that setting a good example for my young homers? We still have to wave a stick around to get the rollers to fly. 
Poor birds...I don't like scaring them into flying like that, but what's the point of having rollers if they don't get up and roll? We also had most of our rollers get killed from that stupid raccoon, so I plan on but the young on a good feeding schedule, etc. to get them to fly like a good kit of rollers should without scaring them into not wanting to come out at all.
I guess that's what you get when you live out in the country hmm? A lot of trees, Cooper's and Sharp-shinned hawks, and too many raccoons and opposums for your own good. Thank goodness we're building a new and improved loft soon. I have a feeling things are going to start turning in a good direction.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

MaryOfExeter said:


> ....... If I had champion bloodlined birds, I don't think I'd risk taking them out 10 miles on their first tosses. Every homer has to build it's homing ability up gradually, I mean, you can't expect even a purebred homer to come back from a 100 miles with only 5 or 10 miles of land it's familiar with. Even champions can get lost. But hey, like I said before, everything works for some people.


Hello Mary,

For what it's worth, the modern day homing pigeon does not need training to find home.....that is a misconception. The homing instinct is already there, and yes a well conditioned homing pigeon will find it's way home, even race home, from hundreds of miles away, without a single training toss.  

For those who do "Training Tosses" the real purpose is to hone their skills, and to cause them to "Race" home as opposed to simply heading towards home.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

As always "Warren" gives good advise, one fly-er i know of starts out at 20 miles first toss, then maybe a few more then no more training at all, just his style, some people train, train, train, others just let the birds do what comes natural, two different views but each can achieve success in the sport!

P.S. Just think of those 500 and 600 mile races, no bird was trained all those miles, so they flew through unfamiliar territory, but YES the bird was conditioned so that it had the strength to do it along with the birds will to home!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I knew pigeons could come home from far away with virtually no training, after all, wild Rock Doves weren't trained and yet they came home from a good ways. I just like having a good training system so I feel more confident in my birds. My original homers were those from an old man with a few breeds that he raised and sold. There's no telling what strains are in the blood of my original stock, or if they are even solid homers. You never know, their grandma could have been a roller or something. After all, the man is getting old and getting very poor eyesight, but still manages to raise some of the prettiest Indian Fantails and Muffed Tumblers I've seen. The homers look good, fly good, raise good, and in my mind, *are* good. They may not be purebred Janssens or Trentons, but some of the birds I've raised from them seem just as good as any 'champion' you can buy. Like Mary for instance (which I'm now convinced she is gender confused, haha). You could catch her in the loft, walk across the yard and release her several times in a row and she'd still fly hard, fast, and long each time. She's the first one to explode from the trap door each morning and leads the flock. In other words, she's a strong flier and loves every second of it. Mary hates it when she's locked up for too long. You can always tell when it's time to give the birds some excersise because she'll be the one either hanging on the trap door or clinging to the wall looking out between the bars of it.

We bought some great looking homers from a friend of ours recently to help restore what we've lost to predators. Right now I have three cocks mated to three of my hens in separate cages. One of the hens is Mystique, the last of my first 5 homing pigeons. She's a great bird, a bit small but she's well built instead of lanky, slender, and weak. She's the mother of Mary, and is a wonderfull parent. I was thinking yesterday, "Man, she's already 5 years old!". Great news, she laid her first eggs with her new mate this week! I'm excited to see what the babies turn out to be like. :] The pair beside them has a nest built, but no eggs yet, and the ones on the end haven't even built a nest. Hopefully by spring everyone will feel the love and I'll have a nice little flock again, but this time with good bloodlines in my youngsters (and hopefully by then a new and improved loft for them to live in). 
I'm sure what the point of typing all of that was...Just babbling on about my birds I guess  haha. My friends at school don't seem to be interested in hearing about my pigeons and even if they were, I'd have to explain a hundred things to them. That only leaves me with my dad (who of course sees for himself these things everyday, as well as hear me talk on and on about new things I've learned about pigeons, my plans, or my new ideas) and you guys to share things with. Ugh, life is hard for a teenage pigeon fancier in a state that seems to have lost interest in the pigeon hobby. I want to share it with everyone I know, get people at school to see what they're missing out on and start a hobby I'm sure they'd enjoy like we all do. But I know in the backs of my friends' minds they're thinking, "All she ever seems interested in is pigeons. All she ever draws in her scetchbook is pigeons, all she ever thinks about is pigeons, and that's all she knows about. She said she's had over 90 pigeons before...who does that!? She needs a life. She needs a hobby." I've been told things similar to this by my friends before, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was how they felt. I think when they said it they were just kidding around, and we both laughed, but still...If only they'd take the time to watch a kit of rollers fly or see a team of homers dive in for a landing like bombers, weaving through the trees. Then they'd know!

...I just got way off subject D:


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

MaryOfExeter said:


> ...Just babbling on about my birds I guess



Good luck building your family of birds. Don't wory about typing alot. You type we will read. Without typing there would be no pigeon talk to post on.


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

when i just let them out i bring them out in a basket about 20 feet from the coop and make them fly to the cooop of my hand lol


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

MaryOfExeter said:


> That's what I usually do :]
> Thanks.
> 
> I've heard of some fanciers that start their youngsters out at 5-10 miles, not one mile as most do. And their schedule for tossing was almost everyday. Talk about packing in a lot of training before a race? Over tossing young or old pigeons can cause them stress, and I don't think you'd want stressed birds on race day. When I saw that I thought they were pretty crazy. If I had champion bloodlined birds, I don't think I'd risk taking them out 10 miles on their first tosses. Every homer has to build it's homing ability up gradually, I mean, you can't expect even a purebred homer to come back from a 100 miles with only 5 or 10 miles of land it's familiar with. Even champions can get lost. But hey, like I said before, everything works for some people.


Mary, I've been following your posts somewhat and it's so nice to hear a young person, to be excited about these birds. I wish you many years of good luck.
A lot of flyers, especially new ones, think they are "teaching" a young bird how to "home"...........we (the fanciers) have nothing to do with that. They are either born with the homing instinct, or they aren't, and you can't change that. 
The training is to get the birds in condition to fly the long distances as well as getting them used to being in a basket and riding around in a car/truck and being comfortable with that. The training its self is not stressful, but the things you have to do to them TO train them can be stressful. IE.....catching them, putting in a basket, transporting them to the release location. The first few times you do this, it DOES stress them, as it's not something they are used to. After a couple of weeks, it becomes routine to them. You can see the birds on shipping night, laying down in the baskets resting. It's no big deal to them. But you won't see much of that on the FIRST shipping night. 
Like everything else in life, they have a learning curve as to what to expect.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks you guys :]

Another question just popped up into my head.
What do you guys think about single flying and group flying?
I was thinking later today (since it's kinda 1am right now...can't go to sleep with pigeons flying through my mind, haha) I'd take my little flock of 6 a few miles up the road to release them one at a time. I've always wanted to try this, but never got around to it. The sight of a flock flying together is like a good movie on TV. You just want to sit there and watch it over and over, for as long as it is shown, and it never gets old. So I figured: Hey, these are all adults that have been at every release I've made just about, so why not try something new? I would have a bigger flock but two of my pairs are on eggs and the female of another is injured and can't fly with them. When training your race team (or just a flock you enjoy without the sport), do you think it is beneficial to single release or do you think in the end it doesn't matter? I know when it comes time for the race, the birds will fly as a team anyways, but in my opinion I think at least a few single tosses are good. When they fly as a flock, they like to take their time and fly around on most occasions, just enjoying each other's company. But if it is just one bird alone, it seems to me that the urge to not only get back home to their mate, but also to be with the flock they grew up with, would get them home faster. Pigeons like to be in groups and have a 'comfort flock' with the other birds they grew up with, and obviously aren't too fond of being alone. My dad raised homing pigeons when he was younger and would always tell me stories of his. He likes the idea of letting them go one at a time often to make sure that each bird exercises its homing ability to the fullest. He always said that there's a possibility that in a flock where all the birds look great...flying good, fast, and coming home quick....there could be a 'follower'. A bird that of course uses it's homing to get home, but somewhat relies on the rest of the flock to lead it home. It doesn't really have to put its own homing to the test because all it has to do is follow the leader. When it comes time for the race, it may fly around looking for its flock and may end up following another loft's birds until it finally has that urge that says "time to go home. now." That could cost you the race, having your bird fluttering around with birds going in a different direction instead of making a few circles before heading off home even if it is alone at the time. That was a long time ago, and the quality of homing pigeons has increased since then I'm guessing, so you all probably think I'm nuts or something. To me it seems like...if a bird...or any animal for instance...is left by itself to find its way home with no help from its friends for flock, it will be forced to use everything it can to find the right path._ It_ will have to be the one to circle and get its things in line and _it_ will have to be the one to decide which way to go.
Personally, I think it would make me feel a bit better on the race day to know that my birds are used to flying home alone and are able to do it nicely. Because....if a bird can make it back from a good ways on its own...it should definitely have no problem racing back with its flock.

Ehh...so much typing just for one question  
Well I guess if you're going to ask others their opinion on something, you should give your own too...heh. I probably repeated things a few different times in different words...I blame it on lack of sleep, haha. Okay bed time now.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Mary, I've been following your posts somewhat and it's so nice to hear a young person, to be excited about these birds. I wish you many years of good luck.
> A lot of flyers, especially new ones, think they are "teaching" a young bird how to "home"...........we (the fanciers) have nothing to do with that. They are either born with the homing instinct, or they aren't, and you can't change that.


I know, I know. It's hard to explain what I mean since what I say can be taken so many different ways. I know you can't train a pigeon to home, because it's in their instinct and they're going to do it whether you want them to or not. Some homers seem to have a better homing quality than others. More able to come back from long distances without getting lost or not taking way longer than it should. When I said you had to slowly build up your bird's homing ability...uh...well...I ment like...well, training I guess. Getting them used to flying back longer and longer distances and in better time. I know birds race back from 100 miles, and fly over a lot of land they aren't familiar with. But what I ment was like...you build them up to where they are used to flying back from distances where they won't be back in just 5 or 10 minutes, just a small flight over some trees. A pigeon that has flown lets say...50 miles in all directions around the loft, to me, seems more ready to take on the long distance races than one that has just been around 20. Sure, the bird will come back the best it can no matter how far around the loft they've been trained, but the less distance the pigeon is used to flying at a time, the more likely it is to stop along the way...and there's no telling what could happen if they land. A hawk could come along as chase it the other way, attack it, or stress it to the point where it doesn't want to fly for a while.

I try to sound like I know what I'm talking about...And I try to *know* what I'm talking about...but it comes out wrong. At least I know a little more than a few begginers though...I think D: Most pigeon fanciers I know are getting old or at the retirement age, so my little 5 years of raising pigeons it like an ant compared to all these people that have had them for 10 years, 20 years, and more. I don't think I know any begginers around here. Like at the pigeon swap I went to a few weeks ago, I was probably the only girl there and I only saw one other kid about my age. He didn't seem as interested in the birds though...his dad was the one checking all the birds to see what he was buy and knew what he was looking for. I shared the observing with my dad to make sure I was getting what I wanted, and to get input from my dad as well. Oh boy do I feel special, haha.


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