# Is this canker? What should I do?



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

This is a pigeon that comes on my balcony together with tens other feral pigeons, because I put food for them in some trays. I noticed he has a swollen beak with some yellow deposits (see video for more angles).

For me it looks like an infectious disease and I fear to not contaminate others.


What should I do? I can't scare only him, because comes with the flock and I woul scare ll of them.


*Video*


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

might be pigeon pox


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I think it's pox. It's spread mainly by mosquitoes, and is very contagious.Chasing him away isn't good, as he needs help. Is it possible to catch him, and see him through it until he is again well. If it spreads to his eyes, he won't be able to see, and could be caught by a predator or starve. 
You would have to keep him away from other birds you have, and use very good hand washing when handling him. Chasing him away won't help, as he is still part of that flock, so he will still be with them. He needs help, not being given more problems.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

At the moment I can't catch him, only if his conditions worsens and by chance remains on my balcony over night (it happened with several pigeons and I was able to catch them, including the one from my other thread, which I released two day ago).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Then not much you can do about it, unfortunately.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

What I see is the bird is young and yet to go through his first moult.
If u can't catch the bird u can give him nutritional feed so that his body is able to fight off pox. U should change the water daily from which other pigeons are also drinking.feeding them by spilling only that much feed which they eat in one go, could help to prevent it from spreading if its avain pox because feed given in bowl could transmitt as his saliva could contaminate all the feed in bowl/trays.
U can add Dr.Pigeons ADE vitamins to feed or Foys ultimate vitamins to water once a week to help him keep up in terms of health and fight off pox.
Adding a little iodine or any medicine that is used to treat chicken pox in children ,to drinking water is gonna help.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

I'd be cautious about adding stuff to the water , it will just have to run it,s course


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

whytwings said:


> I'd be cautious about adding stuff to the water , it will just have to run it,s course


Google to check out the mortality rate of young pigeons bcuz of pox. The pox lesion has already invaded the beak. His beak is open that makes me think if that lesion grows bigger it could prevent the bird from eating/drinking if that happens his doom is sure...
Young birds have low immunities to fight ailments so they are most affected.
Pigeons especially young need supportive care to survive the course of pox as u suggested... Otherwise u know I don't have great things to say...
Pox lesions grow in hours not days. Better to put effort now rather regretting later...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Homeopathic medicine Variolinum(here)used to treat children with pox, has given relief to pox affected young pigeons here. 2 drops on week days. Or a droplet of it daily to severly affected pigeons.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

I've had a fair bit of experience dealing with pox . Iodene is usually a good choice on the lesions , but it is imperative that it not be placed near the eyes or mouth . Knowing this is why I suggested caution if it was placed in water . The bird in the picture does not seem to have an extreme case from what I can see and in 6 or so weeks will recovet with life long immuity thereafter .


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I also hope the bird survives those six weeks. Salt has iodine in it and 2% salt is what is we mix in grit. Giving this much salt/iodine won't hurt the bird.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

whytwings said:


> I've had a fair bit of experience dealing with pox .


I would appreciate and love to hear if u could share the info regarding "dealing with pox".
I have also treated numerous cases of pox successfully. My pigeons seldom develop pox cuz fine wire net won't let vectors enter. But I've rescued many ferals and pigeons of other friends. May be I need more things to know so...


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

No problem..... I'm only sharing information given to me from my avian veterinarian .


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

brocky bieber said:


> I would appreciate and love to hear if u could share the info of dealing with pox.


Unfortunately there isn't any magical cure . In most cases iodene can be dabbed on the lesions where they are not close to the mouth or eyes . In the past I have used colloidal of silver , but have sinced been warned to avoid it as it contains heavy metals .Unless any of the lesions become infected , the virus has to run it's course , usually six weeks or so . If infection becomes an issue as it has in my dealings with it ...usually a course of clavamox will be a good choice .


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thnx Darren


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> What I see is the bird is young and yet to go through his first moult.
> If u can't catch the bird u can give him nutritional feed so that his body is able to fight off pox. U should change the water daily from which other pigeons are also drinking.feeding them by spilling only that much feed which they eat in one go, could help to prevent it from spreading if its avain pox because feed given in bowl could transmitt as his saliva could contaminate all the feed in bowl/trays.
> U can add Dr.Pigeons ADE vitamins to feed or Foys ultimate vitamins to water once a week to help him keep up in terms of health and fight off pox.
> Adding a little iodine or any medicine that is used to treat chicken pox in children ,to drinking water is gonna help.


I change the water several times a day, put only little food at the time and throw it if I see a poop and I wash most of trays every morning.


I saw him today again, was first to come but also returned with the flock later.


I don't think they would be interested in my grit because ferals take their necessary from ground.






Another question: in a vegetable market near me there is a flock that drink water from a very dirty source (some air conditioning device that spills its discharge in a place full of their droppings on street) and I saw some pigeons remained isolated over night because of illness. Their droppings looked yellow-greenish, similar to droppings of coccidiosis ill birds according to photos on some websites. It also had something red, blood or worm. I think it may be cocci or worms. 

Can I put some water with anti-coccidial medicament in it or anti-worm for that flock in market? I have such anti-cocci medicine (some Romanian product called Coccistop) but for worms I don't know what to give.

I'm especially interested in that flock because it is a pigeon that I cared (was cat bitten) and then escaped and this night that pigeon remained isolated in some inaccessible place there, a sign that is sick too.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thnx for being inclined towards benefit of pigeons. 
While treating for coccidiosis the treated water is given for 5-7 days,other water source is removed. (Most drugs that I've used make clear in instructions that no other water source be available). Here people who are concerned about pigeons give feed and put bowl in parks/rooftops and they make the water available 24/7.

That way pigeons know where to get sweet clean fresh water and feed and they don't use such water source as in the market over there cuz pigeons know more than we think. Putting coccidal medicine in that pool of water which full of droppings and more water come out of AC discharge won't help. Coccidal powder be mixed in proper ratio. Andre,I would suggest u to do some social work, make some arrangements that the water that come out of AC vent don't accumulate over there. It should get into drain so that pigeons don't drink it. People are religious over here,they put water bowl on their rooftops and streets. Govt and NGO's also emphasis to provide clean drinking water. So, I think u should make effort or ask the owner not let water accumulate over there as not only for pigeons its a health hazzard for humans also as mosquitos and several types of bacteria can breed in there...
If u wanna put treated water in bowls then its good.While treating a wild flock what I've experienced is that when u treat the water and pigeons drink it if they don't like its taste they go away and find another source. If u treat ur water then pigeons will be hesitant to drink it.

But,giving it a try won't hurt. Water can be treated for worms given that pigeons drink required water to give them sufficient doasge to kill worms. Low or high dosages both are toxic/harmful. But don't do it right now as the pigeons that come to ur place to drink and feed are already fighting with pox. They don't need more stress on their bodies for now


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Thnx for being inclined towards benefit of pigeons.
> While treating for coccidiosis the treated water is given for 5-7 days,other water source is removed. (Most drugs that I've used make clear in instructions that no other water source be available). Here people who are concerned about pigeons give feed and put bowl in parks/rooftops and they make the water available 24/7.
> 
> That way pigeons know where to get sweet clean fresh water and feed and they don't use such water source as in the market over there cuz pigeons know more than we think. Putting coccidal medicine in that pool of water which full of droppings and more water come out of AC discharge won't help. Coccidal powder be mixed in proper ratio. Andre,I would suggest u to do some social work, make some arrangements that the water that come out of AC vent don't accumulate over there. It should get into drain so that pigeons don't drink it. People are religious over here,they put water bowl on their rooftops and streets. Govt and NGO's also emphasis to provide clean drinking water. So, I think u should make effort or ask the owner not let water accumulate over there as not only for pigeons its a health hazzard for humans also as mosquitos and several types of bacteria can breed in there...
> ...


I will put a can under the air conditioning's pipe to collect the water and not let it spill out. I made some connections in market, last evening & night they helped me try to catch that pigeon of mine but I didn't succeed. She stayed over night in cold rain and now she doesn't eat and her condition will worsen. I hope to able to get her when will be weak enough. I talked with someone working in market that will watch the bird and if she falls or something else happens, phones me.



As for the pigeon with pox, I noticed today that her beak is stuck open by that inflamation, she can't eat but tries endless, making the food trays potentially contagious, so I removed the trays from there.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Oh so sorry to hear about both the birds. I'm afraid that the cat bitten pigeons has developed some infection.

Removing the trays is a good step u took. Atleast now other pigeons won't eat feed infected with his saliva/pox.And if the pox ridden pigeon can't eat or drink then situation's gon b bad for him...
I hope u catch both the birds soon so that they can be helped.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Would it be possible to put up a box trap to try and catch the sick bird when it comes to feed? But to do that you would have to put out more feed. He will die otherwise.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I've just managed to capture the pox sick pigeon (using a trap like in Tom & Jerry cartoons .


Unfortunately, poor guy is in very bad condition, is very light and weak and the mouth appears to be completely obturated by the deposits on the inside beak, possibly on tongue too. She breaths heavily aned with sounds. Nevertheless, I will look carefully at her and try to see if is possible to insert a tube inside her mouth and feed with some liquid food. I know about water with honey an I will use too some grinded by me grain mixed with water.


Do somebody have any other suggestions for liwuid feeding?


Unfortunately, I noticed at at least one other pigeon a beginning of a pox nodule on check.


Video:

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpjszWEvN7A*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great catch! Good grief, hope you are able to get a tube down that throat. Poor thing. Even dry baby cereal if it doesn't contain milk can be used after mixing with water, to which you can add baby veggie that come in jars, like peas and carrots. Make into a slush.

I'm thinking you can't get baby bird formula over there.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Does the bird have pox lesions on the vent also?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I think I can find baby bird formula, we have most of products here, but is saturay evening an might not find open some bigger pet shops.



Here's a video with the inside of the mouth, it can be seen only the air hole, the food hole appears narrowed by the swollen mouth walls but I think I will manage to insert a tube. I'm afraid of not having tricho too.



*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYerb0CBvk8*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well if there is canker, he can be treated for that as well. Thanks for trying for him.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

brocky bieber said:


> Does the bird have pox lesions on the vent also?


Good question. I looked at her vent and is blocked by agglutinated poop. 




Despite giving her around 15 ml of liquid (water with grinded grain and water with honey) some 1-3 hours ago, it isn't any poop in the box, in fact she may made but remained in the agglutinated feathers, as the vent is wet.


I don't know how to solve this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You will have to wash it off Maybe the bird will do better on formula.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello Andre,
Great job catching and helping the bird out...
U're feeding her right.
First thing to be done is to strive for her to make her able to poop and get her system going. Pls clean the vent with boiled saline water. Clean the beak(be very careful with eyes) and legs also if u see any lesion is visible on legs.
Apply Betadine(iodine based)on vent and a little on lesion on beak OR apply coconut oil. Heat the coconut oil. Switch off gas stove. It will be hot in seconds.When its hot add turmeric powder,salt,little chilli powder. stir when its still hot. Keep stirring until it gets luke warm. Apply it on already cleand vent area and little on beak. This mixture won't do harm if little gets into the beak. It will help the bird instead. The ripe lesion will fall off in matter of days. And new lesion will ripe quickly and fall. This mixture to be applied every alternative day after cleaning with boiled saline water when the area dries completely after cleaning.prepare the mixture afresh everytime only a tablespoon of it. (Optional-IF u can get homeopathic medicine Variolinum he's gonna be fine in matter of days. Or any homeopathic medicine used to cure children with chicken pox.)

After applying the mixture bird is supposed to in open evvironment not in a room. I usually hang the cage under the tree where there is fresh wind blowing and shade with little sunshine coming through leaves. My rescues always get well in a week or so.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No one said there was pox on the vent. Just wash it off with warm water, and if no pox there, just leave it alone.

And pox has to run its course.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I managed to wash away the poop from went last night (wasn't any lesion apparently) and immediately she made a big green foul smelling poop. Afterward she made other poops. 


She ate also some grains I put in her beak (is difficult to do this as can't handle easily the beak because of the swelling). 

I started giving metronidazole and enrofloxacine as obviously has some digestive infection and respiratory problem, from the aspect of poop and breathing with sound.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

brocky bieber said:


> Hello Andre,
> Great job catching and helping the bird out...
> U're feeding her right.
> First thing to be done is to strive for her to make her able to poop and get her system going. Pls clean the vent with boiled saline water. Clean the beak(be very careful with eyes) and legs also if u see any lesion is visible on legs.
> ...


This cococut oil recipe is interesting. It is good to know your rescues get healed in a week .


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thnx Dhanya,
I've had great success with it. Cleaning every alternative day with boiled saline water helps a lot.This home made remedy has given great results to me. Some say that pox has to run its course. But many viral diseases like common cold in humans is also caused by viruses. We just don't sit and let the virus run its course and go away. We take medicines to get well.
Similarly, Variolinum and this remedy make the conditions unfavourable for viruses. They don't mutiply and their dead bodies pass through vent which help pigeons a lot. We just can't sit and let pox virus take its cause. Bcz its no guarantee that the pigeon will survive the pox invasion especially the young and ill ones who have disturbed immune systems.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well the breathing problem is probably from the pox blocking her throat, and the problem with the poop is most likely that she hasn't been able to eat much.
You need to get food into her. Are you going to tube feed?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

*What is the treatment for the common cold? Are there any home remedies for the common cold?
*
There is no cure for the common cold. The common cold is a self-limited illness that will resolve spontaneously with time. Home remedies and treatments are directed at alleviating the symptoms associated with the common cold while the body fights off the infection
http://www.medicinenet.com/common_c...e_there_any_home_remedies_for_the_common_cold

Anything you do for the common cold is just to alleviate the symptoms, and make them easier to live with. Same thing with pox. It has to run its course, and you just try to get the bird through it with supportive care. Hand feeding, keeping him warm and clean. Nothing is going to cure a virus. The stress of doing unnecessary treatments to the poor thing will not help him to rest and get better.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> What is the treatment for the common cold? Are there any home remedies for the common cold?
> 
> There is no cure for the common cold. The common cold is a self-limited illness that will resolve spontaneously with time. Home remedies and treatments are directed at alleviating the symptoms associated with the common cold while the body fights off the infection
> http://www.medicinenet.com/common_co...he_common_cold
> ...


Here I stand corrected. Thnx to u a lot


brocky bieber said:


> unfavourable for viruses. They don't mutiply and their dead bodies pass through vent which help pigeons a lot.


I wrote help not treat. Bottom line is that this remedy helped me like taking steam,applying balm etc helps me in common cold. Thnx


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Well the breathing problem is probably from the pox blocking her throat, and the problem with the poop is most likely that she hasn't been able to eat much.
> You need to get food into her. Are you going to tube feed?


The poop looks too green (the hard part) and yellow (the soft, normally white part).

Yes, I fed her, gave honey with water and grinded grains with water, also gave her some whole grains and liked to ate it. I'm afraid of giving too much, anyway.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The green could be because the bird isn't eating, and the urates being yellow can be canker. I wouldn't give honey in the water though. How much are you feeding her? And how are you giving it?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I give her like 1-2 flat spoons of grains each time (lie 10-15 gr probably), at some 8 hours. I'm trying to see if the crop is empty an certainly isn't compeltely empty, but I don't know how to appreciate how much grain is inside. I think she made too little poop compared to how much she eats.

I'm puting the grains in her mouth with my fingers and she swallows them. She can't pick them by herself as the swelling of the upper half of the beak doesn't let her close the beak or catch something with it.


I will stop giving her honey.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The poops look better now and she mae enough of them. But the discharge of that viscous liquid (more like a gelatin) from the nasal vent in mouth continues.



Do you think 5 mg Enrofloxacine / day are enough?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I caught today a pigeon that escaped from me two weeks ago (then didn't appear to have other problems but being bitten by cat).


I was able to catch her because now was very weak and emaciated. I took her to a laboratory, made tests and found that she has tricho and cocci so I started the treatment for these illnesses.


I fed her with peas and grain and she made some big, ugly diarrheas, than some smaller, but everything is intense green, apparently she doesn't digest what I gave. Maybe the metro and cocci medicine affected her liver?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think it is the medicines. The green is probably because of starvation. Once she is fed well, the green in poop will go away in a few days.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Very bad news with the pigeon having pox. The upper part of the beak has (almost) fallen due to swelling caused by pox.


The cause was that when I was feeding her, I was holding that part of the beak up, and as she struggled, the already softened tissue gave up and for that reason I feel quilty.


I don't know if she can survive like that, surely only in captivity, I have to keep her for the rest of her life, as she can't feed on her own. 



I need some advices about feeding such a pigeon and if somebody managed to keep alive such a pigeon for a longer period.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

My pigeon also lost the black (keratin) part of his beak because of pox, and it fell off due to exactly the same reason - due to the pressure I applied while hand-feeding him. His entire cere was also eaten away by the pox. 
Today, 6 months later, his cere has grown back. The beak is not yet entirely black, but it has started to grow black from the tip upwards, and it is only a matter of time before the entire beak will have the keratin sheath. The beak is however slightly disfigured, because of the pox.
He has no problem picking up seeds however.
The beak of your pigeon will now be slithery perhaps, because the hard sheath has now gone. You need to find a way to hold the beak along the sides or something, so as to put minimum pressure on the stub that remains of the beak.
Hope she pulls through. Keep up the feeding.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

If the beak is bleeding or raw, it is best to let it heal for the day before attempting feeding.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

AndreiS said:


> Very bad news with the pigeon having pox. The upper part of the beak has (almost) fallen due to swelling caused by pox.
> 
> 
> The cause was that when I was feeding her, I was holding that part of the beak up, and as she struggled, the already softened tissue gave up and for that reason I feel quilty.


What did u expect,eh??? The lost beak will never grow back. To feed such a pigeon for longer period give him feed in deep and a little narrow container so that he can pick seeds from it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The upper side is completely missing and I don't know if she will able to pick something. 


In fact, I don't know how to open her mouth for feeding or giving water, as I don't have what to hold.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's really tough situation. A photo can help. 
The beak may form again, as it did in my case. But perhaps you have to wait months and years. In the meanwhile, we need to create some innovative way of feeding him. 

I don't know how (whatever remains of ) the upper beak looks like, but perhaps you can gently push down on the lower beak in order to get the mouth opened? I used to catch the sides of the beak for many days following loss of beak in my pigeon. You need to catch along the sides where the jaw starts, and gently squeeze open the mouth. 

Hope you find some way to feed him. All the best!


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> That's really tough situation. A photo can help.
> The beak may form again, as it did in my case. But perhaps you have to wait months and years. In the meanwhile, we need to create some innovative way of feeding him.
> 
> I don't know how (whatever remains of ) the upper beak looks like, but perhaps you can gently push down on the lower beak in order to get the mouth opened? I used to catch the sides of the beak for many days following loss of beak in my pigeon. You need to catch along the sides where the jaw starts, and gently squeeze open the mouth.
> ...


Thanks for reply and for giving, even an illusory, little hope!

I managed to feed her well since then because she helps me, having good appetite. Sorry for not puting photo, I think is not good, out of respect for her intimacy. 



..............................


I'm not opening another thread but ask you here advice for another rescued pigeon. I think he has canker, but it also may be pox. I gave him ~30 mg metronidazole and a lot of water. He seem to have the crop full of some undigested food:

























And a video:



*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cSh4EOvjbI*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

30 mg is not enough. I would give 100 for the first dose, then decrease to 50 mg daily.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would be very careful on opening his beak, and try not to knock any of that stuff loose. You could make it worse.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Could be canker or pox. My pigeon had that stuff at exactly the same location, but much smaller. It ultimately grew yellow and fell out. The mouth used to bleed for many days afterward, so again, feeding was an issue..but all got sorted out eventually.
Like Jay3 said, since this is a big growth, you can give 100 mg per day initially, and gradually reduce to 50 mg. See if the growth is reducing in size after 10 days. Some severe cases of canker may need a combination of drugs(like metro + ronidazole), and treatment for 3 weeks or more.
If there is no change with metro even after 2 weeks, it could be pox. For pox, one suggestion I have is to make of paste of turmeric in neem oil, and apply this paste to the white growth. It will help the lesion to dry and fall off faster.

If the crop is not emptying properly, you could give some applesauce, and keep watch. Only after the crop empties fully, give him food.

Glad to know the other pigeon is doing fine. You have a lot of patience to feed this beakless pigeon. Keep faith, she will get better in no time.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Do you think is good to put methylene blue on the wound?


And what to feed him, peas? 

He made some poops, apparently has no problem with digestion. It may (or may not) have also eaten something, I put some grains in his box an had the impresssion were fewer later.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Haven't heard of methylene blue. Hope others can help you in this regard.
If he is eating and drinking on his own, that is best. That way there will be least stress on the lesion inside the mouth. You need to monitor him and find out if he is eating. Or better is to check and count his poops, this will give us an idea of how well he is eating.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't use methylene blue, but do as Kunju has suggested.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> Haven't heard of methylene blue. Hope others can help you in this regard.
> If he is eating and drinking on his own, that is best. That way there will be least stress on the lesion inside the mouth. You need to monitor him and find out if he is eating. Or better is to check and count his poops, this will give us an idea of how well he is eating.


I know methylene blue is used for lesions as the ones of pox.

He is eating well and pooping normally (quantitative and qualitative). The mouth infection also seem to be regressing.


........

I rescued today another pigeon, she wasn't flying or running away and is sleepy, but otherwise doesn't appear to have other problems. She is drinking water and pooping water. I fed her some seeds but found them later on box' floor, probably she exgurgitated them (other explanation is that she pooped them undigested). Before, in the water poop was some brown matter.

Another pigeon from that flock that I rescued (died in the meanwhile) was having cocci and canker (according to lab tests). 


Do you think I should try to gave her peas? She doesn't appear to be weak or have anything impeding to eat, so the refusal to eat is deliberated and I'm afraid to not affect her (I think the other pigeon died because I forcedly fed her).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> *I know methylene blue is used for lesions as the ones of pox.*
> 
> 
> ........
> ...


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad that the second bird is eating well. I don't know if methylene blue is ingestible, but this neem oil+ turmeric is ingestible, though it would be good to apply it on an empty stomach since both have an awful taste. Since the lesion is already improving, I think we can rather wait it out.
Regarding this latest pigeon, I have one suggestion, that instead of peas, you could try baby formula. If he is regurgitating, his digestive system is fragile and baby formula would be easy to digest. Do not overfeed, feed him just enough to keep him alive and see him through the infection he has.
Regarding the infection he has, my guesses are : bacterial infection, canker or both. I guess experts here can give you better idea on what medication could be given. I gave some suggestions in another post and it turned out to be wrong advice, so I don't want to repeat it again.
All the best with all your rescues! Great work.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You do need to get food into him, or he will die anyway. Just don't over feed. AN adult can eat about 50 or so peas a couple of times a day, but if you give less, and give more feedings, then it may be easier on the bird. Give maybe 30, 3 times a day, but only feed after the crop has emptied from the last feed.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I suggest starting on antibiotics and metronidazole.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

She died because of my mistake. Her situation worsened yesterday but after making a lincomycin injection, started to look better. 


But then again, during the night, I was afraid of becoming too dehydrated (it was very thin), I put some water drops in her beak and as was sleepy, the water entered the respiratory tract.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry you lost her. Inspite of our best intentions, sometimes we commit errors. Atleast you tried your best.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You should never give a bird water by putting it in his beak. It's so very easy to aspirate them. Giving defrosted peas would have given him moisture.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you for your words and advices.


I want to ask you here (because in the Non- pigeon section I'm afraid not many people look in) how to give liquid vitamin to a small bird - fieldfare. With a pigeon I could easily insert a tube into crop but a such smal bird like filedfare - a little bigger than a sparow, I can't.

This vitamin was prescribed by a reputed avian veterinary for treating his candidiasis, so is absolutely necessary.


Do you have any idea?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

You can provide the vitamin in drinking water? Or maybe add a vitamin drop to a small piece of bread (if it eats that) and shape it into a tiny ball and feed it?
I think your bird died because it was semi-conscious when you gave water. I don't think giving liquid medicines to a normal adult pigeon is going to aspirate him, as long as it is given slowly in such a manner it can swallow.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> You can provide the vitamin in drinking water? Or maybe add a vitamin drop to a small piece of bread (if it eats that) and shape it into a tiny ball and feed it?


If he smells that the water or bread has medicines or vitamin, do not eat / drink. 

At the moment, I'm puting one drop in his beak at some hours but he shakes the he4ad after that and I don't know how much reaches his crop. An it takes much times, as the doctor said to give 0.5 ml of the substance / day.




> I think your bird died because it was semi-conscious when you gave water. I don't think giving liquid medicines to a normal adult pigeon is going to aspirate him, as long as it is given slowly in such a manner it can swallow.


Yes, this was the cause. I was just woken her up and because of fever was semi-conscious, mostly unconscious.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I did not mean to let him eat the bread, I meant that you could hand feed him the bread balls. It many take a few tiny bread balls to make the dosage, but at least no danger of aspiration.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

He has good smell and immediately feels medicine so wouldn't work.



I have another question, for the pigeon missing the upper side of the beak. I see that now the nostrils have closed, partly with the skin of the former nose, partly with some solidified ointment I used and perhaps partly with some secretion or other things. 

Is good to be closed? I mean, I know that the tissues in nose are functioning like a sort of filter and in the absence of nose, maybe is better to breath by mouth? If I should re-open it, how should I proceed?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kunju said:


> You can provide the vitamin in drinking water? Or maybe add a vitamin drop to a small piece of bread (if it eats that) and shape it into a tiny ball and feed it?
> I think your bird died because it was semi-conscious when you gave water. I don't think giving liquid medicines to a normal adult pigeon is going to aspirate him, as long as it is given slowly in such a manner it can swallow.


Many very awake adult pigeons have been aspirated by feeding them water.
I don't understand why anyone would give it to a bird who is semi-conscious.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> *He has good smell and immediately feels medicine so wouldn't work.
> *
> 
> I think Kunju meant to put it in his mouth and push it back and close his beak, so that he would swallow it. The same way you would feed defrosted peas to a pigeon or dove.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

AndreiS said:


> He has good smell and immediately feels medicine so wouldn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't quite get the entire situation, but if the nose is healing on its own, by all means allow it. This means you have to take care while hand-feeding, and not disrupt the new skin and tissue being formed. It is a bit tricky. 
In my pox pigeon, the lesions inside the mouth had fallen off leaving raw wounds. Each day, new skin would be formed but would get removed while feeding, causing bleeding. Finally I allowed him to go without food for a day or two so the mouth heals.
Thanks Jay3 for the info that aspiration could happen to alert birds as well. Haven't come across it yet though, I feed all my birds liquid medicines with a dropper. Sometimes it gets into their nostrils and they just sneeze it out.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

That pigeon completely miss the upper mandible, including the nose, has only the inferior part. Instead of nose, has a hole in the head, and that hole now got closed. This is what I was saying.



.............


I would like an advice for a baby pigeon, what to feed him. Is he big enough for grains? Previously, when I had other babies, I fed them with saltless bread and they got big and saw them flying for months. In Romania is not available baby formula.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes he is old enough for grains. But something is wrong with him. Looks like he's in pain maybe.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Yes he is old enough for grains. But something is wrong with him. Looks like he's in pain maybe.


I was heaving some white-gray deposits in mouth that went away after giving him some 40 mg metrodinazole, but now keeps sneezing and a gurgling is heard inside him. I also gave some doxyciclyne.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Do not open up the nose again.. Take care not to disturb whatever new tissue is reformed of the nose, until it has healed well and touching doesn't dislodge the new tissue.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How long did you give the Metronidazole? How long the Doxy?
When you treat for something, if you under dose or don't treat for long enough, not only does it come back, because it was never cured, but it comes back stronger and harder to cure, as you have helped it to build up a resistance to the drug. Usually when canker nodules are ready to fall off, and not taken off, they don't leave raw wounds in the mouth. Those nodules should never be taken off, as you can cause a serious bleed. They come off when they are ready to.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kunju said:


> Do not open up the nose again.. Take care not to disturb whatever new tissue is reformed of the nose, until it has healed well and touching doesn't dislodge the new tissue.


Thanks, I think this is what I should do.




Jay3 said:


> How long did you give the Metronidazole? How long the Doxy?
> When you treat for something, if you under dose or don't treat for long enough, not only does it come back, because it was never cured, but it comes back stronger and harder to cure, as you have helped it to build up a resistance to the drug. Usually when canker nodules are ready to fall off, and not taken off, they don't leave raw wounds in the mouth. Those nodules should never be taken off, as you can cause a serious bleed. They come off when they are ready to.


I picked up the baby just yesterday and gave the medicaments 2 times. Yesterday evening was having some ugly formations in mouth, but not the typical yellow growths, rather like something rotten and not attached to mouth's wall. As I said, now there is no more, either was cleaned by metronidazole effect or pushed away by the food (moistured bread) I gave.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I picked up today a weakened pigeon but died after two hours. It was very thin. He drank water but didn't eat. I gave him metronidazole and doxycycline.

Before dying, he was breathing by opening and closing the beak a little and a foam or liquid was in his beak.


Don't know what it was, if I killed him with medicines and could been saved.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I have another baby for like a week which when I foun him was having canker (gray-yellowish deposits in mouth) and possibly some bacterial disease (I treated him and apparently he got cured). But this night he sudden started to sneeze and to keep his beak open. 
Otherwise he is playful, eats normally.


Could be some internal form of canker or maybe he swallowed something?

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKkqcWpgHaQ*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How long did you treat for canker and with what?

How is he eating? 

How old is he?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> How long did you treat for canker and with what?


Like 3 days with metronidazole and doxycycline.



> How is he eating?


Very well, I'm giving him moistured bread and he also eats few grains on his own.



> How old is he?


Maybe three weeks, I'm not sure. A weak ago he was still having those yellow threads among feathers. See the video in previous post.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well for one, you didn't treat him long enough if he had canker. You need to treat for 7 to 10 days straight. What was the Doxy for? 
By giving moisteded bread, are you sure you didn't get any down the wrong pipe? If water goes down the trachea, you can aspirate him. That would make him breath that way. Frozen peas, or peas that are cooked till very soft, and just warm is what you should hand feed him. Gently dip his beak in water, but not over his nostrils and see if he will learn to drink. You can't do this while holding him. You need to put a small dish in front of him. If you are holding him, then he won't want to drink. 


How do you know he had canker?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Over night, he vomited some food. He looks more apathetic than usual. Any idea what this can be?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well canker will often make a pigeon vomit, and you said he had canker. You only treated for 3 days, so he probably has canker.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

When I found him, was having some big, dirty-gray color, thing in his mouth, not like usual yellow canker thing. After giving him medicine, that thing disappeared.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he eats on his own then why are you feeding him by hand?
Have you tried to get him to drink?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Because he asks me, like baby birds do, by cheeping and flapping his wings. He likes bread more, grains eats only few. Water drinks on his own.


I noticed that the poops changed from usual green to brown. now he is apathetic, doesn't eat or drink.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He isn't eating a healthy diet. He needs the different seeds and grains. If he was sick when you got him, then he is probably still sick. Have you checked way down his throat with a flashlight? Maybe he isn't eating enough. Cold be canker of some other illness.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> He isn't eating a healthy diet. He needs the different seeds and grains. If he was sick when you got him, then he is probably still sick. Have you checked way down his throat with a flashlight? Maybe he isn't eating enough. Cold be canker of some other illness.


I think is canker (I've checked the throat but couldn't see anything) and I'm giving him some metronidazole. He continue to want bread and also eat some seeds on his own and apparently is stable.



...........


I have a problem with another pigeon. Is the one missing the upper part of beak, which I released outside and because she couldn't eat on her own, she was coming like at one or two days to receive food by hand from me (sleeping outside). Because she was coming so rarely (she was eating once a day or less, compared with three times when I was keeping her at home), she became very thin. Yesterday she came and after eating, she remained over night (this morning she didn't want to leave either), sign that she feels weak, either because of little food she has intaken or because of a disease, most probably both.

The poop has an unusual light green color and contains fragments of undigested seeds. What is striking is the quantity of the poop, I never seen so much at one bird. The second photo is the poop from over night, like in 8 hours. Before this (2 days ago) she was having a relatively normal poop, if I remember right.























What I'm thinking is that she has worms and I'm intending to give her an antiworm medicine. I haven't threated yet a bird for worms and don't know which are the best medicines I would like to read your recommendantions about such medicine or if you think is some other disease.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can't believe you released a bird who can not eat on her own. Did you have a reason for doing that? She should not be out there in the wild. She is going to die out there. She probably comes back at times for food when you don't even see her. You have put so much work into caring for the bird, and then just release it, where it can't possibly survive. I don't understand.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I have picked a pigeon with a bad wound on upper part o neck, nevertheless, the problem is that she breaths with horrible rattling which seem to come from air sacs.

As I treated her with injectable antibiotics few days ago, remains that is not something bacterial but canker, a fungus or a lesion.


What do you think from seeing this video?


*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rALEUwS0b_w*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How does his throat look? Anything you can see? I would treat with Metronidazole for 10 days and Baytril (Enrofloxyn), and see how he is then. Sometimes longer treatment is needed. Pull all calcium. He needs to be kept warm, and really should be on a heating pad set on LOW with a layer of a small towel over it. He sounds bad. 

Just because he hasn't responded so far, doesn't mean that it isn't bacterial. It does sometimes take longer than you think it will. Could have more than one thing going on.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The throat looks apparently normal, only some small yellow thing around nasal vent, which could be some banal deposit.


I will do how you said about treatment.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He needs to be kept warm.


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